# Did anyone get to hear Earl Zausmer's BMW?



## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

Hi Gents,

I'm not sure where to put this thread, I'm currently not happy with my system and think it needs a redesign.

I've been thinking about Earl Zausmer's BMW 540 from a few years back, and after looking at some articles, am wondering whether I might have a look at doing something similar.

I'm interested in finding out how good the car actually sounded by todays standards. I expect it will be very hard to gauge, but would love to hear anyones experience who had an opportunity to listen to the car with the mids and tweeters hanging over the front of the dash.

ala :- http://www.milbert.com/Files/Autos/Earl/ASS9902b.jpg

I would be looking to use my current tweeters and some 3/3.5inch mids, I have NS3's and some TB W3-832SE and currently some morel 8's in the kicks.

I'm more then happy to have a play and muck around with this idea, but I want to know if I'm barking up the wrong tree and could be better using my time heading in another direction.

My priority order would be (if I had to choose) :-
1st :- Stage focus/height/depth
2nd :- Tonailty (close second)
3rd :- Stage width

Thanks in advance for any input.

Ben


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

From the driver's seat it was the car that set my benchmark. Heard it in 96 I think it was. Passenger's seat was poo.

Hate to say it, but you aren't going to best Earl's car with those speakers.


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

I have no intention of 'besting' his vehicle. I'm interested in how i can better my system with no implication that I would or could sound as good as Earl's BMW.

I am interested in the design layout and how the car sounded. I realise that it is very speaker dependant but it's something that I wouldn't mind trying to see if I can't resolve some of the issues I have with my current layout.

Did the vehicle exhibit good depth, height and have a sharp focused image?


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## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

This might be just a little off topic, but is that the same guy/BMW that had the mids on motorised pods that extended up from the dash top?.. and had, IIRC, 10"s or 12"s in the kickpanels?
I can remember that name associated with the above system.. I think? 
Of course, I could be way off the mark!.. the memory is not quite what it used to be! 

Mark


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

FrankstonCarAudio said:


> This might be just a little off topic, but is that the same guy/BMW that had the mids on motorised pods that extended up from the dash top?.. and had, IIRC, 10"s or 12"s in the kickpanels?
> I can remember that name associated with the above system.. I think?
> Of course, I could be way off the mark!.. the memory is not quite what it used to be!
> 
> Mark


Yep, that's the one. With 12's in the kicks in the first version of the car and 15's in the second.


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

The same vehicle  He had a couple of different installs in the car.

http://www.milbert.com/autos/earl


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## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

Maybe my memory is not as bad as I thought! 

I can remember reading that article in CA&E about that first version of the install and being blown away by the woofers in the kicks and the motorised mids!.. I never saw the second.

Good luck with your venture BMW.. I know you're not trying to "best" it but even coming close will require a fair amount of effort! 

Mark


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

I didn't realise my originaly post portrayed in any way that I am trying to compete with this vehicle.

I'm purely interested in whether or not the driver locations worked effectively in the car and that it might be a suitable location worthy of a few days work to try for potentailly good gains.

I'm not interested in the massive kick panels/floor well drivers, my 8's will stay, as wil the w15GTi for subbass. I'm looking for a system layout that will provide good stage, depth, focus and linearity from 250/300hz up. I'm currently happy with 300hz down, so am entertaining the system layout that Earl has used in what is a very similar vehicle internally.

Yes there will be fibreglass fabrication etc for the dash pods, along with a fair amount of tweaking to get the correct alignment, so rather then waste time exploring this (if it wasn't as good as the hype), I'm asking for peoples experience with this particular vehicle/layout.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Try it !

you could get lucky


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

We have deviated from my original intention of the thread. 

I'm interested in peoples experiences with Earl's vehicle or a similarly set out vehicle.

I am suspecting a stage depth not quiet as deep as can be achieved with off-axis or kicks panel mounted drivers, but I was hoping that possibly someone could comment on the sound.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

This vehicle made it into magazines and that should tell you what you are asking !

Whether or not you are going to limit your install , will determine the final sound !

As far as all the tricks employed , very few probably know  .

Think {competitive edge }.

Have you read this ...
It's pretty rare to win more than 90% of all car audio competitions entered in a 5-year period. Even rarer to be featured not only in all of the major car audio magazines, but also in Time, MTV, CNBC, and more than 211 newspapers in the US, as well as 27 magazines worldwide. But somehow, that is exactly what has been accomplished by this Bimmer and more than $20,000 of car audio/electronics hardware, as well as countless hours (2,000+ total over the various iterations) of installation work... Please note that this car has been sold and no longer belongs to Earl; nevertheless, the legacy of the "King of IASCA" lives on.
end quote>

How did it sound [ Obviously , ****ing incredible ! ].
quote>


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

Agreed, but I haven't seen many systems with a similar on dash alignment of the drivers, hecne my query. 

I see a large trend toward dash drivers, but not facing the listener, more off-axis arrangements. 

Why do you think this is?


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## John Swanberg (Mar 17, 2008)

Probably because of all the work required to change the dash, structural integrity of the car etc. is the reason few people have/will ever do what Earl had done. Jps


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

BMWturbo said:


> Agreed, but I haven't seen many systems with a similar on dash alignment of the drivers, hecne my query.
> 
> I see a large trend toward dash drivers, but not facing the listener, more off-axis arrangements.
> 
> Why do you think this is?


Instant stage height.....and path lengths.


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## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

GlasSman said:


> Instant stage height.....and path lengths.


Stage height, yes. Path lengths, no. For the driver the path length difference between left and right was at least 20" or more. The first version had the closer path length difference, the second version had a higher difference. Earl used several milliseconds of time delay on the driver's side to get the correct imaging and staging for the driver's side only. The key was that the early reflections from the mids and tweeters were nearly eliminated by having the speakers on-axis with the driver's side listener. Heck, in the second version with the 6.5"s up top and the 15"s in the floor the driver's side speaker was so on axis that it partially blocked the view out the windshield. Also in the second version anyone over 6' tall had problems just sitting in the car. Earl is a short man of about 5' tall with short legs. He told me at the '98 IASCA finals that he placed the 15" subs so that he could fit his legs and feet in comfortably. I'm 6' and my toes were touching the sub grills when I sat in the car. I remember everyone at the '98 finals was thinking Earl had gone overboard with the second version. Apparently the judges did too; I know he did not win his pro 601+ class.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

BMWturbo said:


> Agreed, but I haven't seen many systems with a similar on dash alignment of the drivers, hecne my query.
> 
> I see a large trend toward dash drivers, but not facing the listener, more off-axis arrangements.
> 
> Why do you think this is?


I think some of this is driver-dependent as well. Some drivers sound good off axis, while others sound much better on axis. Not to say all drivers wouldn't sound "better" on axis, but that is subjective. He was using B&W home audio drivers BTW. at one point he had 15" woofers venting to the outside of the car down in the kickpanels, and the 6-7" mids on axis coming off the dash, with the tweeters mounted similarly. I would venture to guess if you tried something similar, it would sound better than what you have now  Only one way to find out though...


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

cmusic said:


> Stage height, yes. Path lengths, no. For the driver the path length difference between left and right was at least 20" or more. The first version had the closer path length difference, the second version had a higher difference. Earl used several milliseconds of time delay on the driver's side to get the correct imaging and staging for the driver's side only. The key was that the early reflections from the mids and tweeters were nearly eliminated by having the speakers on-axis with the driver's side listener. Heck, in the second version with the 6.5"s up top and the 15"s in the floor the driver's side speaker was so on axis that it partially blocked the view out the windshield.


I wasn't thinking in your face driver side speakers.

But it's all coming back to me.:blush:


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

anyone got pics of the build log for the 15s in teh kicks?

edit, its all there



BMWturbo said:


> The same vehicle  He had a couple of different installs in the car.
> 
> http://www.milbert.com/autos/earl


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

BMWturbo said:


> I'm purely interested in whether or not the driver locations worked effectively in the car and that it might be a suitable location worthy of a few days work to try for potentailly good gains.
> 
> I'm looking for a system layout that will provide good stage, depth, focus and linearity from 250/300hz up. I'm currently happy with 300hz down, so am entertaining the system layout that Earl has used in what is a very similar vehicle internally.


While Earl's car may have been one of the early ones in the States to do such an dash/ kick install....putting speakers on the dash and kicks has been popular in Europe and other parts of the World for awhile now. Even so, there are more and more cars here in the States with speakers on the dash. There also seems to be more and more custom dash builds poping up. I never heard Earls car but I read from a few that his car was one of the best cars for tonality that they have heard. As far as stage depth and width...it may have not been the best out there? Not sure what these current cars are sounding like.

I would say that the only way for YOU to know what is possible is to try it. Have you seen a more modern E34 5 Series dash install? Check out this DLS BMW 525...Very Custom and the dash speakers are pointing forward but don't stick up right in your face like Earl's car did.
http://dls.se/econtent/165/dls_suriya.html

My dream was to do an install in a E34 540i SPORT and have large subs up front with mids in the dash.


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

Thanks guys, this is the sort of information I was hoping to get 

I have seen the DLS E34, it is similar in layout to Earl's. I have always been under the belief/feeling that domes sound better off-axis then on-axis, so this might have been something to do with the DLS BMW having them slighty off axis, rather then directly on-axis.

I'll be having a play today I think with some new speaker rings etc and see what I can fit there without compromising vision out of the screen too much.

Cheers
Ben


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## SQrules (May 25, 2007)

I heard Earl's first edition, and it was the first time i could actually see the soundstage in front of me. A true holographic image on the dash. Other similar systems have had problems with getting any more depth than where the drivers are located.


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

That's funny. I was looking through some older car audio mags looking for PG reviews and came across his BMW install last night. 

If anyone wants to know it's in the Feb '95 issue of CA&E.


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

The issue with the Mcintosh on the cover


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## Mark Eldridge (Jul 23, 2008)

Earl's car and system were interesting to say the least...

I heard it on many occasions, with the first version of what he had designed, through the last version before he retired the car. At it's best, from the driver's seat, it did many thing respectably well. It had a consistent, proportionally sized soundstage. It was relatively small, being not quite as wide as the car, just inside the windshield, and essentially just on top of the dash. Image placement was clean and solid overall, but a few things tended to wander slightly. Overall tonal balance was nice also, with only minor abberations noticeable. And the system would play loud without breaking up, which was refreshing and quite unusual for those days.

The one thing about the car that stood out to me was that it was in your face loud. I mean quite literally in you face. With the speakers at the edge of the dash facing you, your face was between 2 and 3 feet from the left speaker. The right speakers were significantly further away, but still much closer than in most systems. He was trying to recreate a near-field listening environment inside the car, but with so many reflective surfaces so near the listener, that is impossible to do. And, Earl liked to demo the car with the volume level up loud, which is fine with me.

The other thing about the system is that I never felt that it sounded any larger than the car iteslf. There were then, and are today, a number of examples of car audio systems that can make the apparent listening space seem larger than the car itself. This is primarily a function of speaker placement. Placing the speakers in locations where early reflections off the side windows, windshield, and other surfaces will compress the soundstage because the reflections cause our hearing system to recognize that we are in a small, confined space. Increasing pathlengths and eliminating reflections helps create the illusion of being in a larger space. 

The BMW was also a very specific driver's seat only car. The passenger's seat sounded just awful, and Earl was fine with that. With all the signal delay used to compensate for the major path length differences to make the driver's seat position sound as good as possible, it collapsed everything into the right side pillar for the passenger side listener. 

Also, Earl had a laser alignment system set up to make sure your head and ears were in exactly the right location for best listening. He would turn on the lasers, and adjust the seat so that you ears had the lasers pointing in them, then asked you not to move your head during listening. I understand the desire to make everything as good as possible for the lietener's experience, but I thought that was a little over the top, and the judges didn't seem to like it either. That's more of a mental issue that stays in the back of your mind while you're listening, and keeps you from letting go of the external stimuli and just listening to the system. 

That's one thing to keep in mind... Never design a system so that the listener's have to sit in a particular position, place their legs in some particular fashion, or that they can not move during listening. It is a total distraction, and will result in the system not sounding as good as it could because of the physical limitations put on them creating a negative mental factor that overshadows the listening experience. The total aural experience isn't just sound... Visual and tactile stimuli are a very, very big part of what we hear.

The BMW was a good sounding car, and many people would still like it today, I'm sure. And for a one seat judging class, it might do well in the competition lanes. However, in the more advanced classes where two seat judging occurs, it would not do well, as it didn't do well in the lanes it's last year in IASCA.

Earl is a super nice guy, and had the drive to push the limits on SQ. He just pushed in a different direction than most others...  

Earl... Where are you...???


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

BMWturbo said:


> The issue with the Macintosh on the cover


Yep!


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

I met earl a few years ago at a car show in Scotssdale. I really wish I could have heard that BMW. Lots of noise about it years ago...


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## badlieu (Jul 13, 2005)

I heard his car at a show at an IASCA event in Allentown PA back when I was in my teens (30 now). I was already hooked on car audio (thanks to AS&S and CA&E) even though I didn't have a car or a license for that matter - but his car sealed the deal on me staying interested in car audio for the rest of my life. I was blown away at how clean his car sounded - reminded me more of my home speakers than any other car I had heard at that point. It was the build with the laser pods and 13's in the fender/kicks. Earl was extremely friendly and enthusiastic and left a lasting impression. If I remember correctly he also had a TV set up - and I believe we checked out Jurassic Park after listening to some music...I could be wrong though. Sweet memories.


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

Mark, 

Same Mark E. that appeared in CA&E's Nov '95 issue? I just got done reading that as well.


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

Thanks gents some great responses. It's really great to hear personal experiences with vehicles that I grew up drooling over.

I guess the next question might be, who had a chance to listen to Chad Klodners Mustang?? Another 'red' vehicle, maybe I need to repaint.


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## trebor (Jun 30, 2008)

Got to see Chad's Mustang install up close but never got the chance to hear it.

I heard Earl's BMW during the early nineties, so first version install. It sounded good(obviously), had a different sound than most systems that I was hearing at the time, warmer less technical if I had to describe it.......probably due to those tube amps. 
But I think what really made it stand out was those large midbasses up front and getting hit with the wall of sound during dynamic passages.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

cmusic said:


> Stage height, yes. Path lengths, no. For the driver the path length difference between left and right was at least 20" or more. The first version had the closer path length difference, the second version had a higher difference. Earl used several milliseconds of time delay on the driver's side to get the correct imaging and staging for the driver's side only. The key was that the early reflections from the mids and tweeters were nearly eliminated by having the speakers on-axis with the driver's side listener. Heck, in the second version with the 6.5"s up top and the 15"s in the floor the driver's side speaker was so on axis that it partially blocked the view out the windshield. Also in the second version anyone over 6' tall had problems just sitting in the car. Earl is a short man of about 5' tall with short legs. He told me at the '98 IASCA finals that he placed the 15" subs so that he could fit his legs and feet in comfortably. I'm 6' and my toes were touching the sub grills when I sat in the car. I remember everyone at the '98 finals was thinking Earl had gone overboard with the second version. Apparently the judges did too; I know he did not win his pro 601+ class.


I listened to the first version. Fantastic, but for the driver's seat only *and* don't forget that he had to use so much time-alignment that there was a laser that shot from the C-pillar to ensure your head was in the right spot. When the red dot was on your right earlobe, your head was perfectly positioned - nowhere else.

I never heard the second version, and only saw pictures, but I think he went a little overboard. I understand what he was trying to do with the mids - get them up and forward of the dash in order to have zero obstructions that would interfere with the projection of the sound in any direction. It worked, but it didn't. It seems like the driver's left hand and the entire steering wheel would kind of defeat the purpose on that side.

Moving to the 15" subs was a step backwards aesthetically, IMO. The original 13" subs were concealed behind mildly reconstructed kickpanels - 95% of the original legroom was still there on both sides. And I don't know what he was doing having the passenger's side sub firing straight back, and the driver's side at a 45 degree angle - I figure it was because he didn't want to deconstruct the drivers side floorboard and have "float" the pedals over the speaker, but it was unsymmetrical and ugly.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

I heard Will's car in its first iteration, Daytona Spring Break Nationals around 1995'ish, I'd guess. If listened to at modest amplitude, tonally one of the best ever I have heard; a real engaging car to listen to. One of the few in my lifetime that didn't 'sound' like a car stereo system. The minute it was turned up it peeled your eye lids back though. Image definition was spot on. Placement was spot on for the driver's side. But staging wise it was only average, with the position to sound stage being well within the confines of the car, only average width (bound by the location of the dash pods and early reflections), average height (bound once again by pod height), and only mild sense of depth. The only good imaging trait the car had from the passenger side was definition. Placement was left or right. Nothing in between.

"King of IASCA." And people say I come up with some good quotes. LOL

Scott


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Scott Buwalda said:


> I heard Will's car in its first iteration, Daytona Spring Break Nationals around 1995'ish, I'd guess.
> 
> Scott


...Will? Do you mean Earl?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

What always has struck me about the car was that it was believable. The music sounded real. He had a Mapleshade CD in the player labeled Salsa, and the drums had the attack and decay of a real drum...it was 3-D. I haven't heard a car since that could make you totally suspend the notion that you were in a car listening to a CD. 

Scott's old white car was very fun to listen to...and I heard Mark's old 4-Runner at SVR probably 02 or 03- the year Scott won the Laz-y-boy...and Mark's old 4-Runner was pretty scary (in a good way).

Old Earl tape recorded some judges at Finals making some ethnic comments about him...and he's been gone since.


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

I hate to ask, but in comparison to the high end of 'current' systems, how did the car compare?

I can see limitations and compromises with each system layout in regards to depth, height, width, focus etc


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

For musical realism, IMO, I haven't heard a car yet that could touch it.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

HondAudio said:


> ...Will? Do you mean Earl?


Sorry, Earl. I had Will, another IASCA great, on my mind when I was typing the response.

thehatedguy is right, for me too, you lost yourself in the music and forgot you were sitting in a car.

Scott


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## the other hated guy (May 25, 2007)

I'll second Marks 4 runner.. IMO 04 finals in kentucky it was ****ing on... scared the **** out of me... in a good way... never heard scott's 240...


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## lyttleviet (Sep 11, 2008)

I never heard it, but heard of it.


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## Bluto Blutarsky (Apr 1, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Old Earl tape recorded some judges at Finals making some ethnic comments about him...and he's been gone since.


 Anti semitic?


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Bluto Blutarsky said:


> Anti semitic?


Yes probably.


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

Would the material choice have a large bearing on what the vehicle sounded like? IE Did the IASCA disc have recordings on it that should have sounded exactly like real instruments?

I ask this because I have never had the pleasure of listening to real musicians in a recording studio to have a reference as to what 'real' instruments sound like in this situation. Concerts etc with amplificatino I expect will not be at accurate reference either.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

He was playing an old Mapleshade Records CD when I heard it...and those are good CDs.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

not this car, but his e39, was part of the inspiration for my current car. i knew i wanted dash/pillar pods w/ on-axis mids, big up-front bass, and lots of processing for a 1-seater e39. pretty darn happy w/ my own results.


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

BMWturbo said:


> I hate to ask, but in comparison to the high end of 'current' systems, how did the car compare?
> 
> I can see limitations and compromises with each system layout in regards to depth, height, width, focus etc


Earl was at the top of SQ (when SQ mattered) ...this was about the time that IASCA was seriously going down hill. "High end current systems" are more about motorized amp racks, neon and bells and whistles than it is about SQ. 

>^..^<


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Catman said:


> Earl was at the top of SQ (when SQ mattered) ...this was about the time that IASCA was seriously going down hill. "High end current systems" are more about motorized amp racks, neon and bells and whistles than it is about SQ.
> 
> >^..^<


actually you are very backwards. Todays Top competitors have very little flash compared to even 5-10 years ago.
There is a much bigger emphasis on sound now than install and all the "major" organization have recognized this and made SOUND only classes and the install portion of regular classes no longer award points for bogus "creativity items.


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## Andy Jones (May 12, 2006)

^x2. Catman you obviously have not been a part of the competition scene in a very long time if ever. I can count the cars I know with motorization on one hand, and have several fingers left over. I couldn't begin to count the number of cars that are using trunk liner for their installs.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> For musical realism, IMO, I haven't heard a car yet that could touch it.


another BMW or another car? I think the OP wants BMW specific cars.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

please forgive catman. he is stuck in 1980's bliss and has jaded visions of mid 90s bling ruining his 80s vibe. we all love catman over on the bimmerforums, but you have to keep in mind and forgive his 80s mentality.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Totally, long gone are motirzed amp racks and neon. Cars today and very heavily slanted toward SQ only. In fact, many of the better cars are quite boring to look at---and the owner's will say "thank you" for calling their cars boring. It's all about the sound. As it should be.

Scott


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

benny z said:


> please forgive catman. he is stuck in 1980's bliss and has jaded visions of mid 90s bling ruining his 80s vibe. we all love catman over on the bimmerforums, but you have to keep in mind and forgive his 80s mentality.


Benny is right ...I said "to hell with audio competitions" back in the mid / late 90's. I had competed since the early 80's. I dropped out because of my above statement. It was not about SQ ....it was about how much crap you could stick in a car. Also ....it seemed that the winners were the ones with equipment made by the sponsors. Also ...it was a 'car show' ...you could have the best SQ system possible ...and if it was in a rusted out 74 Pinto ....you didn't have a chance. IMO IASCA is a joke ....still ....however things may be changing.

>^..^<


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Are those the Kevlar B&W's from the 800 series? Like THIS.

I have heard the B&W 800's hooked up to and otherwise all Krell system, UNREAL! Super clean sound. No sub needed.


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## SteveH! (Nov 7, 2005)

fcarpio said:


> Are those the Kevlar B&W's from the 800 series? Like THIS.
> 
> I have heard the B&W 800's hooked up to and otherwise all Krell system, UNREAL! Super clean sound. No sub needed.


this a link to a pic of the speaker the 13 inch woofers in earl's car origin ally came from;

http://www.stereophile.com//loudspeakerreviews/506/


this is a link to the speakers that his mid and tweeter camefrom. it's an ebay auction but it give a lot of good info if you scroll down:

http://cgi.ebay.nl/B-W-Silver-Signa...0787961QQihZ015QQcategoryZ14990QQcmdZViewItem


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## vick (Nov 1, 2008)

Wow, this guy is nuts


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

_"Did anyone get to hear Earl Zausmer's BMW?"_

Yes!

Back in '99, my brother and I went to the IASCA Finals here in Daytona Beach, FL, only a couple hours drive for us. Anyway, we listened to some jazz piece by I think was the Yellowjackets. After that, it was a pipe organ piece by Cesar Frank. 

Now I have heard plenty of B&W 801's and Nautilus 801's in properly set up rooms with $200k+ gear behind them and very subdued lighting. I can tell you from first-hand experience, Earl's BMW with those B&W drivers staring you in the face sounded every bit as good as those high-roller home systems! 

When sitting in the driver's seat, you could close your eyes and pin-point every instrument and singer like they were standing right in front of you, almost like you could reach out and physically touch them. However, sitting in the passenger seat, you still had the superb tonality and crispness, but the soundstage and imaging was a bit off and fuzzy. Even so, it was still a total joy to hear in the passenger seat.

I am really really greatfull that I was able to hear Earl's system for two entire pieces of excellent music. I highly doubt I will ever hear anything like that in a vehicle ever again, unless of course Earl comes out with something else that rivals that system.

*BMWturbo*, thanks for bringing back one hell of a good memory!


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## dkh (Apr 2, 2008)

I think 'bling' made a comeback in EMMA Euro-finals this year... with extra pionts rewarded for the 'wow' factor


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## Earlinarizona (Sep 19, 2010)

Hi it's Earl Zausmer here. Long time since talking to any of the car audio people. By accident I ended up here and noticed some of the posts. Any of you can just email me at [email protected] or ring me up on SKYPE if you want to talk. My Skype name is earlinarizona. Retired to Scottsdale Arizona 13 years ago. Mike Milbert bought the car from a person in California. On the way back east he stopped in to see me and I got some listening time in. I forgot just how powerful that direct sound was. It looks like the same setup the Red BMW had is now available on Aston Martins and Audi cars. Motorized tweeters that rise out of the dash. On the Aston Martin cars they also put the woofers up front.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Earlinarizona said:


> Hi it's Earl Zausmer here. Long time since talking to any of the car audio people. By accident I ended up here and noticed some of the posts. Any of you can just email me at [email protected] or ring me up on SKYPE if you want to talk. My Skype name is earlinarizona. Retired to Scottsdale Arizona 13 years ago. Mike Milbert bought the car from a person in California. On the way back east he stopped in to see me and I got some listening time in. I forgot just how powerful that direct sound was. It looks like the same setup the Red BMW had is now available on Aston Martins and Audi cars. Motorized tweeters that rise out of the dash. On the Aston Martin cars they also put the woofers up front.


Wow, what an Honour to have you here Sir!


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## bboyvek (Dec 16, 2008)

stick around!!! Congrats on the accomplishments!


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## Earlinarizona (Sep 19, 2010)

*Re:The future of car audio from Audi*

This will be the new normal. It seems like a lot of speakers (62) but it makes total sense especially with all of the processing. Be sure to click the car picture once you are on the site. 
Audi Q7 Audio System - European Car Magazine


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

Earlinarizona said:


> Hi it's Earl Zausmer here. Long time since talking to any of the car audio people. By accident I ended up here and noticed some of the posts. Any of you can just email me at [email protected] or ring me up on SKYPE if you want to talk. My Skype name is earlinarizona. Retired to Scottsdale Arizona 13 years ago. Mike Milbert bought the car from a person in California. On the way back east he stopped in to see me and I got some listening time in. I forgot just how powerful that direct sound was. It looks like the same setup the Red BMW had is now available on Aston Martins and Audi cars. Motorized tweeters that rise out of the dash. On the Aston Martin cars they also put the woofers up front.



Welcome Earl!

My name is Anthony. 
We met about 8 years ago at the Pavillions. I was hustling my new sound deadening product, Second Skin Damplifier Pro.
We spoke for quite a while, and you helped the time go by pretty good that day.

Hope all is well!

ANT


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

hey ant....could you tweak his status a lil? 

some people just shouldn't have "freshman" attached to them

especially legends....


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## DanMan (Jul 18, 2008)

Agreed. Good idea!


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## amungal (Mar 29, 2010)

I saw his car in 1997 at a show in Long Island. Wish I got the chance to hear it but it was being displayed at the time. Fenders open etc.


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

Hi Earl,

Thank you for posting in my thread  I must admit I didn't expect to have you post in here re the system. I have the issue of CA&E which featured the E34 with the B&W's and 4's rising out of the dash and have often referred to it and the images I've found to get some ideas of things to try with my own system in my E32.

You comment on the 'directness' of the 5's in the pods of the last incarnation (I believe). How did this relate to stage depth and width? Did you find these reduced over the original motorised layout?

The reason I ask is that I have found with the E32 that moving the Tweet/MR drivers towards the listener seems to reduce the width and depth and also distort's the stage location/direction. I realise that you can tune for this somewhat, but I've found I'm never quite happy with it.

Thanks once again I've drawn lots of inspiration from your installs.


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

truckerfte said:


> hey ant....could you tweak his status a lil?
> 
> some people just shouldn't have "freshman" attached to them
> 
> especially legends....


 
Sure..
Do you have any suggestions?

Earl?
Do you have any input?

ANT


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

DIYMA said:


> Sure..
> Do you have any suggestions?
> 
> Earl?
> ...



I was just going to say go in and make some changes directly. 

Then I had a better idea!

Why not a DIYMA Hall of Fame?

Every so often, open a thread to nominations for persons who have made real contributions or impact in the auto sound industry. Then give the membership a chance to vote their choices in. This wouldn't necessarily be just for the people who post up on the forum. I can think off the top of my head a few people who would make good candidates: Earl. Of course, Alma Gates, Nelson Pass, Jim Fosgate, the Fishman, Richard Clark/David Navone, Harry K, Mark F,Carolyn Hall Young
and prolly a host of others. 

And give those who chose to participate some replacement for the standard status levels something like Legend or Hall of Fame member or something of the like. 


just an idea


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

How about just Mobile Audio Legend?

Welcome Earl. Don't take this weird but your issue of Auto Sound & Security is in my bathroom right now.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I vote for Legend.

It is the only car from the mid 90s that I remember hearing...and one that I strive to emulate.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Your BMW was inspiration for my last car, an e39 with dash pillar pods.

Another vote for Legend.


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## Earlinarizona (Sep 19, 2010)

I can't believe people remembered the BMW from 16 years ago. It was a clear ground breaker at the time with the direct sound. Having the sound hit your ear first, before any other surface was the most important fact. The second most important was when we mounted the tweeter and mid in a coax set-up. At that moment the sound became very coherent. Having the Mid/Tweeter pod do from 198HZ to 20KHZ kept the sound very focused.

The woofer was a work in progress as it originally was mounted on the rear deck like most installs by Rick Inferraro. I knew frontal sound was what I wanted but the thought of cutting the previous BMW525 (the White one) scared me. I never hear of anyone ever cutting a fender before. When I got up the nerve to do it, I went to my local installer and he was shocked to say the least. He promptly said if you want me to do this job you have to pay me up front and sign a release because he did not know if it would damage the safety or structure of the car. I went ahead but using a 8 inch B & W driver out of the 802 system. It was beefy. The fender got cut and he mounted it on flake board screwed to the car in the front kicks/fender. We finished everything up and closed the fender to take a listen. To say the least the installer and me just sat in amazement of how coherent the car sound became compared to the rear deck mounting. We also had to cut the original volume in half so it matched the front speakers. No going back from there.

Woofer Chapter 2- We played with different damping and other things for months and made it even better but it lacked the real punch of a large cone. Then I had this crazy idea of mounting the 13 inch woofer from the B & W 801 system. Again I had to pre pay the installer and sign off responsibility. When the install was done and we turned it on we just didn't know what to say. The sound was powerful accurate and warm with limitless body. With the woofer up front you had to lower the woofer volume a lot and so the woofer had to work a lot less then on the rear deck. No distortion. Again tweeking for the next few week when I decided to buy a new Red BMW 540. 

Woofer Chapter 3- This time I was thinking that the flake board mounting was absorbing some of the power and said how about if we make a metal ring and weld it to the car solidly, then mount the woofer to the metal ring. The installer got 1/8 inch thick hardened steel and machined it to match the speaker frame and threaded bolt holes. Steel was added to the inside of the fender too. The most important results was that the woofer now coupled with the body of the car. VERY IMPORTANT. The flake board prevented this. So now we had pods focused on you and subs with a strong connection to the car. Any of you that has sat in the car remember that feeling.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

good lord, man!

You don't happen to have any un-published pictures of your install(s) do you? I'd really like to see them, if you don't mind sharing.


I've been digging into the 80s-90s installs and am amazed at the work done back then. It's funny to see how the new trends now are just rehashed ideas. No one (including myself) seem to be doing anything new... of course, there's not too much one can do in a car. What you guys were doing back then are more innovative than what we see today.
Props to you, your wife (for letting you kill a nice car) and your installer for having the guts to do this. 

- Erin


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## Earlinarizona (Sep 19, 2010)

This post is about the new B & O system with the pop up tweeters. I have heard this system in an Audi A8 and Aston Martin DBS and it is very nice sounding. 

Here is a link showing the tweeters going up and down. 
YouTube - Audi S8 BANG & OLUFSEN audio system

Here is BMW latest concept attempt which is much more for show then sound. The tweeter is not coming up very far but it is good for sales. It has a mid driver, but facing up to the windshield which puts you back to square one. 
2010 BMW Concept 6 Series Coupe - Dashboard Vent - 1280x960 - Wallpaper

I heard the Aston Martin DBS sytem and it is top rate and even better then the Audi. WHY????? Very simple reason. They knew the advantages of having the sub up front and came up with a great solution. They mounted 2 six inch subs in the center driveline tunnel. If you are sitting in the passenger or drivers seat you just look where your shoe is. There is a grill on the center console for the speakers. Here is a link to the picture. You will notice the chrome grill on the center console near the foot area. You can only see the edge of the grill, but you will get the idea. 
2010 Aston Martin Rapide Interior Front 1 Photos - Motor Trend Magazine

So would the B & O setup tweeter sound as good as my original set-up. Simple answer is no. Take notice to the pop up tweeter as it faces up. Then it is aimed into a plastic lens which reshapes and changes its dispersion pattern. This is the same effect as bouncing off a windshield. The first sound out of the speaker is absorbed by the plastic lens and not your ears. The other problem is it needs to be higher off the dash as it flattens the sound. The main problem is without the mid and no coax mount you must electronically alter the sound. Don't get me wrong, because this system sounds good but the more direct sound is clearly better sounding. Only problem is that it would be impossible to market big mids on the dash facing you. Blocked vision. The B & O solution is clearly a much more easily digestible solution for the market and beautifully done. But to be clear the Tweeter is just like aiming it at a windshield. The mid speaker is on the door facing a completely different direction and the sub is on the rear deck.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Earlinarizona said:


> I can't believe people remembered the BMW from 16 years ago.


 Myself, I wanted an 540I M-Sport for years after seeing what you did to your car. Earl, your 540 is a legend because of all the work and money that went onto it for the sake of high fidelity. Not to mention all the work you did to promote the car and all the press it recieved.
Cars like that inspire people to go out and try to get good sound in their own cars.

Its great to have a car audio legend on the forum.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Hell, I remember what CD was used when I listened to the car. The Sony read "Salsa" on the display...was a Mapleshade Records CD. I think you were the first person to really publicize Mapleshade in the car audio community. Shortly after that I went to my local B&W dealer and started looking at B&W speakers that I could afford to put in my own car. We emailed a few times back and forth about it...god, that must have been 95 or 96, whenever the last time you had the car in Greenville, SC for IASCA Finals.


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## Earlinarizona (Sep 19, 2010)

When I asked Mapleshade to come to a car audio show I think he just didn't know what to say. He had never heard of high end car audio before but was convinced to come. He drove his old Dodge to the show, set up a booth and just could not believe the volume at the show. He wore ear plugs the whole time and set up a small booth with multiple headphones. People started to listen and could not get over the clarity. He let some people take one CD to try in there car. He told me that every person that borrowed a cd brought it back and bought CD's. He was impressed with the car audio people honesty. By the end of the show he had sold more CD's then he did at ANY CES show in his history. After that he told me that the car audio people were ordering 10-20 cd's with every order and some buying every on he had. Here is the link for that song you remember. At the same time roam around his site because he has VERY high quality playback on most CD's. If you have Apple Quicktime Pro you can just save the song to your hard drive for free. On the site there are about 50 full song you can get free. Mapleshade Records - A La Carte Brass & Percussion


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I bought a Reggae CD (Midnite Ras Mek Peace) from Mapleshade, and it was exceptional. I enjoy reading through the catalog - his descriptions of the albums and his home gear is really fascinating (counter to some of the conventional wisdom). 

I also remember hearing so much about your car, and I remember seeing the magazine spreads - always talked about with respect - you definitely pushed the boundaries - did things your own way to get exactly the results you wanted. It is great to see you on here.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Earlinarizona said:


> Hi it's Earl Zausmer here. Long time since talking to any of the car audio people. By accident I ended up here and noticed some of the posts. Any of you can just email me at [email protected] or ring me up on SKYPE if you want to talk. My Skype name is earlinarizona. Retired to Scottsdale Arizona 13 years ago. Mike Milbert bought the car from a person in California. On the way back east he stopped in to see me and I got some listening time in. I forgot just how powerful that direct sound was. It looks like the same setup the Red BMW had is now available on Aston Martins and Audi cars. Motorized tweeters that rise out of the dash. On the Aston Martin cars they also put the woofers up front.


Welcome! It is truly an honor to have you as a member of this forum. A friend of mine just the other day showed me some home audio speakers that reminded me of your car. I remember when I first saw that issue of CA&E and read the article about your car; it has never left my poor memory. I was amazed by the install and really wished I could have heard the car personally. I don't think I am speaking out of turn when I say we all appreciate you being a member and hope to read more from you about your car and car audio philosophies!


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## soundboy (Jun 19, 2009)

Hey Mr Earl!

How make you choice to pick out this amps some was used in our car?

About the Sony headunit XES-Z50, what mode / setup you use in this headunit for our system?


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

soundboy said:


> Hey Mr Earl!
> 
> How make you choice to pick out this amps some was used in our car?
> 
> About the Sony headunit XES-Z50, what mode / setup you use in this headunit for our system?


not sure if if earl actually would see such an old thread, however you can email him and ask the questions yourself at [email protected] He's really a nice guy and quite personable.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I remember an old article where earl took a lot of amps and a/bed them in a very nice home system against the reference amps.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

thehatedguy said:


> What always has struck me about the car was that it was believable. The music sounded real. He had a Mapleshade CD in the player labeled Salsa, and the drums had the attack and decay of a real drum...it was 3-D. I haven't heard a car since that could make you totally suspend the notion that you were in a car listening to a CD.
> 
> Scott's old white car was very fun to listen to...and I heard Mark's old 4-Runner at SVR probably 02 or 03- the year Scott won the Laz-y-boy...and Mark's old 4-Runner was pretty scary (in a good way).
> 
> Old Earl tape recorded some judges at Finals making some ethnic comments about him...and he's been gone since.


On my forum I've babbled a lot about group delay. The phenomenon that you are describing is due to very good group delay.

I don't do a lot with audio these days - I mostly write software and screw around with bicycles. But the one thing that i cling to above all is that TIMING IS EVERYTHING. Get the timing right, and nearly everything else falls into place.

Aperiodic enclosures, like the ones used by Zausmer, excel at group delay. This is because the 'decay' on the low end is verrrrrrry gradual. And also because there isn't any output from the rear of the cone (output from the rear is obviously out-of-sync, because the polarity is different.)

Bottom line -

If you want to create that tactile sensation of attack and decay, where you can practically see the drums, mess around with the group delay charts in Hornresp. You'll notice that group delay can be absolutely horrible for a lot of speakers.

Further complicating this is that the interior of the car itself affects this, and it's not possible to simulate that (yet)


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Earlinarizona said:


> I can't believe people remembered the BMW from 16 years ago. It was a clear ground breaker at the time with the direct sound. Having the sound hit your ear first, before any other surface was the most important fact. The second most important was when we mounted the tweeter and mid in a coax set-up. At that moment the sound became very coherent. Having the Mid/Tweeter pod do from 198HZ to 20KHZ kept the sound very focused.


Ha, are you kidding?

In 1989 I was an aspiring artist. I got the car audio bug in 1990 or so, due to Richard Clark and his Grand National. One of the reasons I switched to writing software was because I wanted a job that would pay for all these expensive toys!

22 years down the road I have a great life writing software for supercomputers, and I'm stoked that car audio nuttiness inspired me to give up on being a starving artist. (seriously kids, don't become an artist, engineering is satisfying and it pays the bills.)

I read the article about your car in CA&E and promptly bought a pair of Dynaudio woofers, cut a hole in the firewall in my car, and mounted them there. Just like your car


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Earlinarizona said:


> This post is about the new B & O system with the pop up tweeters. I have heard this system in an Audi A8 and Aston Martin DBS and it is very nice sounding.
> 
> Here is a link showing the tweeters going up and down.
> YouTube - Audi S8 BANG & OLUFSEN audio system
> ...


I've heard the lenses from Sausalito Audio Works, and nearly chopped off my right thumb trying to replicate one. It is basically a clever waveguide, and it's hardly the same as reflecting the tweeter energy off of the windshield.










The reason that it's different is that the lens first focuses the energy, and then uses an elliptical waveguide to redirect into a disc shaped 'fan' of sound.

In a car, this can be a good thing. It restricts reflections off of the floor and the ceiling. It can also increase efficiency on axis, because the vertical directivity has been limited.

*Note that this waveguide, like all waveguides, WILL NOT sound like a conventional tweeter.* So when you first hear it, you may be put off by the sound. Give it some time to get used to it.

Audi Q7 Bang & Olufsen Sound Check - YouTube

Check out the B&O videos on youtube. The first thing you'll notice is that it doesn't sound like the typical shrill and bassy car audio setup.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm glad this thread was resurrected... It's been a great read!!


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Audi Q7 Bang & Olufsen Sound Check - YouTube
> 
> Check out the B&O videos on youtube. The first thing you'll notice is that it doesn't sound like the typical shrill and bassy car audio setup.[/font]


Is the tweeter's WHIRRing noise really that loud when it rises, or was the microphone just really sensitive?


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## soundboy (Jun 19, 2009)

I came over this Norwegian`s forum/project! Here have the guy build this speakers loction in own car, for not get so much of reflection.

Him have build the dashboard in two version! 

See photo`s!

Version 1:










Version 2 / last one:










modify tweeters


















Him have use this materials for sound absorption, around the "wall" there speakers are mount : Bitoplast A5 
So the not will be reflection around speakers.

From that I know in the forum, so are this "wall" not more than 2,36inches (6cm) high.
The hole is 1,57inches biggere than 6.5 sax speaker are! The sounds was bettere and had more focus was the write in forum. 

Say`s was some peak around 1-2KHz here.

Here are closed box back of this 6.5 sax speakers some also have used Bitoplast A5 too.

Have be used:

Tweeter: Audison Thesis 1.5 Violino

6.5": Audison Thesis 6.5 Sax

Car model: Honda Civic

Here are car finished :










I have not listen to this car , so I don`t know how the sounds are!

But this was interest to read this forum and how the was build.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

Beautiful dash! Do you have a link to the thread?


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## soundboy (Jun 19, 2009)

Wesayso said:


> Beautiful dash! Do you have a link to the thread?


¤¤ BILSTEREOFORUMET ¤¤ - Powered by vBulletin

the forum is not in english - only Norwegian`s language and also - have to register if shall see the project!


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

thanks, that could be a problem


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## soundboy (Jun 19, 2009)

Google Oversetter


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## lsm (Mar 11, 2009)

WOW! Great Thread!!


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## lsm (Mar 11, 2009)

Thought id bring this back from the dead since i read the entire thread before i realized i was the last person who posted....lol


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

earl's bmw was inspirational for my work, but i never go to hear it. imagine how honored i was when earl contacted me to arrange a listen to my magic bus! here's what earl had to say ...

Earl Zausmer listens to the Magic Bus - YouTube


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Dp you have to spam in all of your posts?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

count me as one who was in awe reading about that BMW all those years ago.


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

Me as well. He was here in OKC at the Myriad mid 90ish, maybe Earl remembers exactly when? I was parked 2 cars behind him. He had the smaller dash speakers then. Sounded really good and what an inspiring stereo. I mean who would take Silver Sig series B&W speakers and put then in a car. lol. I was also fortunate to be at an event with David Quesenberry for those that may remember him. He had quite an install as well and was an inspiration in the early 90's. I was living in Dayton Ohio at that time. These guys among many others brought car stereo competitions to a new level. Still mind blowing stuff today not to mention early to mid 90's.

Edit: May of been in Dallas. Saw Klodner's stang in Austin at a Iasca key event but he didn't let anyone get close to it let alone listen to it. Prett cool install.


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## Bdigital413 (Jun 8, 2021)

jon w. said:


> earl's bmw was inspirational for my work, but i never go to hear it. imagine how honored i was when earl contacted me to arrange a listen to my magic bus! here's what earl had to say ...
> 
> Earl Zausmer listens to the Magic Bus - YouTube


It’s being revived again by my former store manager at Car Essentials and Earl himself!!…






car MiZa com – The Michne + Zausmer BMW 3.0







carmiza.com


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

here we go to resurect thread that is dead for 11 years...


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

LBaudio said:


> here we go to resurect thread that is dead for 11 years...


Why not ? It seems relevant.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

i wish they will order a new 2021 M5 Comp and go for it! Want to see their magic!


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## Bdigital413 (Jun 8, 2021)

I spoke to Mike about it, and he says Earl is extremely involved in the build and they are going to go back to the original design with some improvements. He said they guy that did the last install after Earl sold the car did a trashy job….
Mike built a 1990 Ford Thunderbird Supercoup that scored as high as Second in the IASCA world finals back when I worked him…


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## Bdigital413 (Jun 8, 2021)

I spoke to Mike about it, and he says Earl is extremely involved in the build and they are going to go back to the original design with some improvements. He said they guy that did the last install after Earl sold the car did a trashy job….
Mike built a 1990 Ford Thunderbird Supercoup that scored very well in the IASCA world after he finished the install…I want to say he took Second in his class at the finals, but don’t take that as gospel…

One thing is for sure…. Once this build is done I will be on a plane to Arizona to visit with Mike and his family so I can finally answer “yes” to the title of this old blog…. And I’m sure Mike will arrange for Earl to stop by so I can meet him while I’m in town…
I tried to edit the last reply but had to repost the entire thing….


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## Bdigital413 (Jun 8, 2021)

I spent a few hours on the phone with Mike tonight… his t bird finished 5th not second…. Sorry for the misquote…
I will not introduce any spoilers into this thread, but all I can say is stand by and wait for the magic that this collaboration with the renewed interest and sponsorships from major companies has started to surface already…


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## Bdigital413 (Jun 8, 2021)

October 2020-Mike and Earl photo shoot for the MiZa article…. I just got access to Mike’s photo library of the rebirth of a legend…. Stand by to be amazed all over again in another year or so!!!


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