# Permabanned at Parts Express



## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

That only took 10 years. 

I posted a question about the connection between Carver, Rodin (PG), Emotiva, Jamo (there are dozens more) and Parts Express amplifiers and got perma-banned.

Homni Enterprises / Integrity Electronic Co. designed and manufactured the following PE products (below).
I found this by just doing detective work from the comfort of my home. No insider information. No leaks. No dishonesty. But, I did it the hard way and found the location of the PCB manufacturer. Did a 100km radius search and found 'em. Took all of 20 minutes. Only later did I find that I could have search their UL listing *printed on the amplifier. *E205870. Real trade secrets...?

A short list (I've got better things to do):

APA150 Amplifier
SA25
SA70
SA240 and SA240-B
SA500
SA1000
HPSA1000
SPA1000

You can see their SA1000 (formerly known as the HPSA1000-R) on the second column from the left, third row down.

http://www.integ-elec.com/UploadProductPic/rdpic03.jpg

I don't have a problem with anything Parts Express is selling (other than it's not particularly well-designed). I simply wanted more information on the amplifiers so that I could help members modify their crossover points. But being cut off, permanently, from a forum of which I had been a decade-long member is troubling. 

I have been threatened with being physically removed from the Parts Express property even though I have never threatened anyone by words or actions. 

So, if you're a member of the Tech Talk group and want to help, please start a thread and post. Or write to: [email protected] or [email protected]

Your support is very much appreciated.

Best Regards,
Aaron Hammett


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## Miniboom (Jul 15, 2010)

Why does anyone care who makes what, to that degree they feel banning a user is the appropriate action when this "comes out"?

Weird behaviour. Don't know what else to say/contribute. I'm really sorry on your behalf.


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## Matt6387 (Jun 17, 2010)

That is quite shady


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

cajunner said:


> It would appear that the nature of the origin of their electronics is a secret worth guarding.
> 
> Maybe it's a valid excuse to expel a longtime member should the exculpatory information be disseminated at large, but the immediate result seems to have been to share the information in a larger forum.
> 
> Funny how that worked.


Yes, indeed. And it seems they've followed me over here and are complaining that my signature was advertising. So, that's gone.


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

That is sad. I have been a parts-express junkie from the first time I got their flyer in the mail. Maybe they want their privacy, who doesnt, but when you sell to the masses that kind of no longer applies as customers strive to find the best products, specs, etc and secrets just cause rumors.

I never believed that they had engineers working feverishly locked away in small dark rooms making their products. Just figured they hired other companies to make them to their specs. Just as you have pointed out. Why the secrecy? 

Whats weird to me is the ban.


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

It doesn't sound weird to me, when someone does something you could be doing and cutting them out of the middle you shut them up if you want to survive. So it sounds to me like they are a middle man for something that could easily be obtained elsewhere with little effort and just a hint of information. 

What is shady is when a business has something so good going that they are this scared for others to find out. It usually points to something horrendously stupidly easy to do without that business involved, easily cutting them out. 

As far as Parts Express goes, I've never even see the flyer. I just know how people think, I have a shrink in the family.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

That is funny, and sad too. Anyone that does not realize that most companies call up China and order their own electronics made...is pretty stupid. Just try to find a car amp made here, what makes their stuff different? It is made in Korea instead? A low tech amplifier? Doh, industry secret! 

How about I tell a secret....in some countries kids make amplifiers for school projects, but here they would not want to tech kids something like that they might get too smart.



> IEC is located in Dongguan City, Guangdong Province, China with the biggest manufacturing operations, over 30,000 square meters occupied and top equipment for manufacturing and testing well setup.


¡ËIntegrity Electronic Co.,Ltd.¡Ë
Even this supposed Taiwan company makes their stuff in China. Who cares, must be someone at PE still living in the dark ages. I talked to someone one day saying their boss didn't want women working in their shop and would not hire one....I thought is this guy from world war two or what....no wait women were working in factories then and somehow the country survived with a world war on top of that....ah, just idiots, the world is FULL of them, in particular at most large corporations.

I don't buy much from them anyway, but hey they chose to deal with the DIY market they better learn to handle things better than this, unless there is more to this story.

People from here in manufacturing are going to China all the time to teach them how to do our jobs, one of these days people are going to see the party end. Either way, if you think its a secret you need to work for your bong not a company.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Odd. Is there really any material way this disclosure could hurt PE? I get the feeling that a consumer couldn't just call up the supplier and get, say one unit of the "1kW" Dayton rack amp. And MCM or whoever isn't selling the same OEM amp for markedly less, so it's clearly not an Arc vs. Clarion/elfAudio/Cerwin Vega thing, wherein PE, like Arc in that case, has a material interest in sowing doubt as to the origin of its products in order to preserve its margins (though, unlike Arc's pricing, PE's they doesn't seem on its face otherwise unjustifiable).

And a business can easily find suppliers in a search. 

But before I comment to PE, I'd like some feedback here as to the materiality of this information from a consumer perspective.


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

DS-21 said:


> But before I comment to PE, I'd like some feedback here as to the materiality of this information from a consumer perspective.


Doesn't bother me any, PE picked up the slack where Radioshack fell 15 years ago. They cater to the DIY and their prices are almost always what I would be willing to pay for a particular product. Especially the Dayton brand.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

This sounds like this golf cart site I used to hit at times. The place forbid anyone to talk about products they did not sell, eventually people started another forum where you could discuss any product or supplier and its huge now. Some people think the word revolves around their X product, and eventually they will lose for treating the customer like dirt. Amplifier design is a joke in the realm of electronics, most EE don't even know much about them because they don't bother with things that simple in school. If they make an amplifier it will likely be operating in the gigahertz range and fit on a dime. Sure it may take some prototyping to get an audio amp right, or you can just copy a competent design there are a million of. They are all made in China because production costs are 99.9% of the product, what does that leave for design.

I can see asking someone not to reverse engineer your product online, but getting all excited about it is pretty laughable. My best guess is one or a few jerks work there, or you really PO'd them about something.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

fertigaudio said:


> Doesn't bother me any, PE picked up the slack where Radioshack fell 15 years ago. They cater to the DIY and their prices are almost always what I would be willing to pay for a particular product. Especially the Dayton brand.


Whether it bothers you is immaterial, assuming you have no financial interest in PE and don't moderate their site.

The interesting question is whether they acted arbitrarily and capriciously, or whether there was an actual proprietary interest they were protecting. The evidence points strongly to the former, but I'm willing to consider the latter.


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## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

DS-21 said:


> Whether it bothers you is immaterial, assuming you have no financial interest in PE and don't moderate their site.
> 
> The interesting question is whether they acted arbitrarily and capriciously, or whether there was an actual proprietary interest they were protecting. The evidence points strongly to the former, but I'm willing to consider the latter.


Making sure no rumors start; my POV is immaterial, I have no affiliation whatsoever. I have been buying from them for 13 years; excellent customer service.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

sqshoestring said:


> This sounds like this golf cart site I used to hit at times. The place forbid anyone to talk about products they did not sell, eventually people started another forum where you could discuss any product or supplier and its huge now. Some people think the word revolves around their X product, and eventually they will lose for treating the customer like dirt. Amplifier design is a joke in the realm of electronics, most EE don't even know much about them because they don't bother with things that simple in school. If they make an amplifier it will likely be operating in the gigahertz range and fit on a dime. Sure it may take some prototyping to get an audio amp right, or you can just copy a competent design there are a million of. They are all made in China because production costs are 99.9% of the product, what does that leave for design.
> 
> I can see asking someone not to reverse engineer your product online, but getting all excited about it is pretty laughable. My best guess is one or a few jerks work there, or you really PO'd them about something.


They don't like me because I'm right. That's not to sound pompous or arrogant because I believe it's true. None of this would have any merit if it wasn't completely true. How better to prove its validity than to ban someone for asking a question?  

I once worked for PE when I moved to Dayton in 2003 - in their call center. My call times were low because I'd very nearly memorized the catalog and item specifications. I was pleasant, yet direct. I was fired on day 89 of my 90-Day probationary period with not a hint of the reason why besides the intellectually vacant "not a good fit". Utter bullsh*t, in my opinion.
I was told (in confidence at the time) that I was the highest-paid service rep in the room, and some of those guys had been there for 15 years. The reason was that I was the only one to-date to have scored 100% on their little employee engineering test - super basic Ohm's Law and speaker building questions with a couple "trick" types to ensure nobody got a perfect score. What a dumb qualifier - and I beat their system. :blush: 

I prefer to think of that time as a blip on my career radar. After all, the next job I took, I still have; receiving excellent performance reviews year-over-year. Parts Express just has it out for me - and those aren't my words, but those that know my record. They _really_ don't like that I'm as researched as I am and they're terrified that I will present a competitive threat to them someday. The problem with their theory is that it's completely untrue. It's just a frickin' game to me. But someday I _will_ pounce.


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

Did they ban you knowing who you are, then, and based more upon some history than the recent events?


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

capnxtreme said:


> Did they ban you knowing who you are, then, and based more upon some history than the recent events?


I'd hope not. 

I last saw and shook the hand of the CEO at their Tent Sale held a couple weeks ago...

A friend (another longtime member of the forum) emailed their moderator looking for an explanation and their reasoning was that I was "trolling." But...I don't create dissent or diminish their products in any way. There have been times, years upon years ago, that I'd get into sardonic and heated debates with folks, but those days have been over for quite some time! It's as if they can't move on... 
They do not return my emails or requests for information and the communication remains civil. I am confused and extremely disappointed, no doubt about it. I've pretty well given up trying.


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