# another Zapco vs Arc audio thread



## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

I have own a zapco z300c2-sl, arc audio 2100cxl and arc audio fd4150. All great sounding amps. One thing that I notice about Mr. Zeffs amps are they have a slightly tinny-matalic sound to them. I think it's probably from his choice of output transistors. I would have to say my favorite one was the fd4150 wich is the same sounding as the cxlr and xxk series 4150. The 4150s' from Arc were the flagships and best sounding before the se series came out. Overall out of the three. MY favorite souding one is the 4150. The 4150 sounded more musical, dynamic, better detail, 3-dimensional, and has a more natural tone. If you have a/b other Robert Zeffs amps please chim in. I am just curious of how the other series from both companies sounded. I am especialy interested in the C2K vs SE comparison.


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

lets get some FR graphs


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

I've been running a 4150XXK for about a month and a half. I love it.  (Thanks again dconder)


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## exmaxima1 (May 31, 2007)

drake78 said:


> One thing that I notice about Mr. Zeffs amps are they have a slightly tinny-matalic sound to them. I think it's probably from his choice of output transistors.


I have never heard of anyone attributing a "metallic" sound to output devices---certainly interesting. Zapco tends to use excellent parts, so I can't imagine what might be better choices.

More likely due to bias level differences (crossover distortion), or inadequate driver stage. But every Zeff amp I've heard sounds awesome IMHO.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

i've always preferred mclass amps for pure sq. they have a natural sound to them that won't offend anyone. for drowning out a noisy truck the balls-to-the-wall sound of the xenon amps is superior though. don't have any listening experience with anything from zapco or arc.


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## tr0y_audi0 (Feb 13, 2007)

Ok not the same setup but almost..
I changed alot but liked #2 much more..
the staging sounded batter,more detail just overall smoother..
dont know how to realy discribe it.. but i liked it very much i would say it was my best system

Setup #1
Eclipse 8053
Arc CXL4150
Type X 177r's bi-amped
IDMAX 12 sealed 1^ft
Arc CXL2100 briged

Setup #2
Adzzest 9255
Zapco Z200c2-sl
Alpine Type X 177r's
Zapco Z200c2-sl
(1)ID10 ported


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

It's possible that the tinny sound you describe is a flat frequency response. Flat from 20 to 20K. 

Alot of the most popular amps have a less than ruler flat response as I believe *werewolf* pointed out in another thread.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Zeff loves his bipolar devices, the 4150 is one helluva amp. The old KAR series were fet designs, likely due to their price bracket and I'm thinking the new ones are likely so as well.

If you love the results you get from a 4150, you'll further appreciate the 
4200SE. That amp has balls of steel.

I only got to play with a pair of C2k2.0's(non-Zeff designs) and after a/b them in my setup vs a 2050xxk i couldnt justify the difference, so i went back to XXK to run my highs, and later to SE's.


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## Phreaxer (Oct 8, 2005)

I have run them both (Arc and Zapco) and I must say, I loved them both. I ran a lot more power when I had Zapco in, so a straight A/B might be a little hard, but I think they are both great products. When it comes time for me to rebuild, I will choose one of the 2 again, probably basing my decision on budget, and availability more than anything else. I consider them to be very very comparable.


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## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

3.5max6spd said:


> Zeff loves his bipolar devices, the 4150 is one helluva amp. The old KAR series were fet designs, likely due to their price bracket and I'm thinking the new ones are likely so as well.
> 
> If you love the results you get from a 4150, you'll further appreciate the
> 4200SE. That amp has balls of steel.
> ...


So your saying you didn't really hear any difference between the xxk an d c2k?


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## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

tr0y_audi0 said:


> Ok not the same setup but almost..
> I changed alot but liked #2 much more..
> the staging sounded batter,more detail just overall smoother..
> dont know how to realy discribe it.. but i liked it very much i would say it was my best system
> ...


You should switch amps and leave everthing else the same. That is the only real way to a/b amps. This eliminates the variables.



3.5max6spd said:


> Zeff loves his bipolar devices, the 4150 is one helluva amp. The old KAR series were fet designs, likely due to their price bracket and I'm thinking the new ones are likely so as well.
> 
> If you love the results you get from a 4150, you'll further appreciate the
> 4200SE. That amp has balls of steel.



I heard the bipolar mosfets are very detail at the expense of sounding slightly cold. Wich is why,I think they sound slightly metallic.


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## GS3 (Feb 19, 2006)

i've owned both line of amps, zapco c2k 4.0 and cxlr 4150 and 4200se.
to me the 4150 sounded it had stronger midbass, more power and better control of the speakers then the c2k 4.0 and the 4200se is more refined with balls of steel power like someone here put it.


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## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

GS3 said:


> i've owned both line of amps, zapco c2k 4.0 and cxlr 4150 and 4200se.
> to me the 4150 sounded it had stronger midbass, more power and better control of the speakers then the c2k 4.0 and the 4200se is more refined with balls of steel power like someone here put it.


So in your opinion over all the 4150 sounded better than the c2k 4.0? What aspect fo SQ did the c2k 4.0 sound better than the 4150? When you say that the se4200 sounded more refined. Do you mean the se4200 is more transparent, less grainy and more coherent? Did you a/b these amp with the exact same components? Just by switching out the amp only.


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

I think my Zapco z100s2 sounds very flat...very detailed at the topend. It doesn't have the punchiness of the Genesis or Linear Power and the warmth of Sinfoni or Audison.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I thought the zapco studios sounded sort of sterile. I actually preferred the sound of the blaupunkt velocities over them. But it has to be said, I had those zapcos for 7 years with no problems and still sold them for what I paid for them 7 years ago.

The zapco studios are what convinced me that amps did sound different.


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## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

invecs said:


> I think my Zapco z100s2 sounds very flat...very detailed at the topend. It doesn't have the punchiness of the Genesis or Linear Power and the warmth of Sinfoni or Audison.


I also agree the zapco z comp series amps have a flat sounding f/s response. 



tyroneshoes said:


> I thought the zapco studios sounded sort of sterile. I actually preferred the sound of the blaupunkt velocities over them. But it has to be said, I had those zapcos for 7 years with no problems and still sold them for what I paid for them 7 years ago.
> 
> The zapco studios are what convinced me that amps did sound different.


Yup, Zapco amp are always in high demand and have a very good resell value(on ebay). Alot of people have the same feedback that Zapco are in a way sterile sounding. Then again there no such thing as a perfect sounding amp. There are always comprimises. I have own a few amps that had a sterile sound. Then when I change speaker or headunits. The amp did sound less or non-sterile.


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

I've found that HF oscillations in the signal path will cause a "harsh" or exceptionally bright sound. One of the first amplifiers I commercially developed exhibited this during final testing. I tracked it down to an upset voltage regulator that was inadequately bypassed. Now for the funny part. A couple of these amplifiers made it to our customers who reported "excellent sound - very clear treble". What they didn't know is that, while the FR was flat, the distortion above 10kHz was atrocious.

So, FR graphs might not catch it. Just something to consider.


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