# MKV Gti - install version 3.0 :) JBL MS-8 this time



## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Hey guys, 

Just did something I haven’t done in a long while, install a third version of a system into a single car 

This particular 2006 Gti belongs to our very own member Bodegabay (Vu).

A year and a half ago, we did the initial install using a mix of gear supplied by him and myself. We had some pretty strict objectives as to the back and came up with this:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/57240-2006-vw-gti-sq-install.html

It sounded decent but I felt there was a lot more to be had.

A while later, Vu decided to switch some equipment and went back to a passive install with a big Tru Super billet 8, same speakers and a different headunit. I was given free reign on cosmetic design and while IMO the cosmetic factor was better, going back to fully passive setup sorta made the overall SQ somewhat of a downgrade. But we always discussed additional upgrades to that system once the new generation of processors became available.
That one came out looking like this:










Tru billet 8, seas lotus 10" sub, still the hertz MLK2s upfront running passive with those big xovers.


Finally, after the MS8 came out, we decided to do a final version once and for all.

So...here is what I came up with over the past week and a half.

Goals:

1. To utilize as much of the old set up as possible, mainly the trunk. To maintain a low key, stealthy appearance.

2. Properly incorporate the MS8 into the system running logic 7

3. Incorporate a clean center channel setup into the vehicle, as well as adding rear speakers as part of the surround set up.


So...let’s get started.

This time around, a clarion NX409 DVD/nav source unit was already installed in the car. We found a good home for the MS8 controller below the center stack, so it’s secure, out of the way, and easily viewed for tuning purposes. The iPod cable and the mic cable for the MS8 also resides in that general area.










For the center channel, Vu supplied me with a Rainbow 4" coaxial. The trick was to figure out a way to mount it so it isn’t protruding and blends well with the rest of the interior.

After some head scratching, I manage to mold it into the dash top trim piece, which used to house a grill vent for air to pass through (pretty useless and he told me we can lose it). After some fine shaping and sanding, the entire structure snaps into the stock housing via OEM clips, and blends in pretty well with the dash. 

we covered the part in grille cloth because last time, the select products glue failed miserably in the extreme heat of Reno, and even though we switched to DAP HHR this time around, we wanted to be sure the same wouldn’t happen, so the dash top pieces (center and pillars) all received grille cloth as it is the least likely to fail in the heat.

Here it is from various angles:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Now for some quick build pics of the center channel.

First I took the stock top trim piece and laid fiberglass over it to strengthen it, and made a ring baffle with flush mount side walls for the speaker. After the glass cured, I trimmed and sanded the whole piece down to the stock size:










I then cut a hole in the top trim piece as well as the OEM plastic spacer piece underneath to allow for the speaker to fit:










Then, I attached the ring baffle to the two pieces via epoxy, position it so the top is almost flush with the stock trim height, and test fitted the result in the main trim panel.










Next, duraglass was used to build up the shape and further bond the ring baffle into the panel:










Then filler was applied and the entire shape was sanded smooth. I sanded down all the sides about 1/16" to account for the thickness of the upholstery.










And then finally test fitted it to the stock vent/trim panel:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Then the hole that allowed air to pass through the top vent was sealed off with a piece of hardboard coated in bedliner, so air will only pass through the front vents from now on.










The back side of the top panel received some more reinforcement and a bit of sound proofing:










And the entire shape wrapped in black grille cloth, I left plenty of extra material down below so that when snapped in, the plastic will squeeze on the cloth to further hold it down in the heat:










the front door pods remained the same, except I completely rewrapped them since the old vinyl’s glue had failed, this time, we didn’t have the same vinyl color available so it’s a little lighter than before. We plan to have a body shop mix up a batch of vinyl paint and dye to match the door.

Vu also made the decision to switch from the hertz MLK2 to a set of Dynaudio Esotec system 242 two way comps. And this is the Dyn midbass in the pod, only a modification was a 1/4" spacer ring to account for the thinner grille.



















A new set of pillars were molded to accommodate the larger Dyn tweeters. Here they are finished, wrapped in grille cloth this time as directed by Vu:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

A few quick pics of the pillar build:

Rings aimed and attached to the stock pillar:










Grille cloth pulled, resin applied, allowed to dry and reinforced from the inside by duraglass/resin mixture:










When that cured, everything was blended with filler and sanded smooth:










They were then painted black so the color of the filler wouldn’t show through the grille cloth, and then wrapped in black grille cloth; here is one of them finished, and the other waiting to be wrapped. (forgot to mention the center channel mold also received a layer of black paint)










Following advice I read on the forum, I also wired in two caps in line with the tweeter to protect them from any turn on of turn off pop which can be full range, though I have to say, this car suffered absolutely zero turn on and turn off pop.

Here are the caps residing in the space behind the stock kick panels:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Moving to the hatch area. As mentioned, the goal was to utilize the old design but swapping out the two passive xovers for some new gear.

So overall, the look remains the same, here is the view normally, with everything hidden, and a custom trunk mat I had made for him: 










Take off the mat, and you see the fake floor with the same center cutout, a breathable grille covers the entire area:










Lift out the grille, and you see the major changes, the Tru B-8s remains, it powers the tweeters, midbass, rears and center channel with 100 watts each, and one channel remains unused. Vu supplied a JL Audio XD600/1 mono amp to power the Seas sub, it was chosen of course for its tiny size. 

I raised the overall floor height by 1/2", so I can make a cutout style trim panel versus the old flush mount; the reason for this is so I can balance the tiny JL amp with the significantly bigger MS-8 from a cosmetic standpoint. The lotus 10 remains in the .7 cub foot sealed enclosure from the previous build. I also trimmed the board in graphite CF pattern vinyl instead of the white we settled on last time.




























A quick shot of the wiring underneath it all:










So that’s it...and here a quick impression of the MS-8.

Admittedly, going into it, I was a bit skeptical about the whole auto tune thing, despite hearing all the rave reviews from various forum members, I still wanted to see it for myself before I would recommend it to any of my future customers.

After some tinkering, and getting used to the unit, and with a lengthy discussion with Andy, who did a ton to help explain to me exactly how the system worked...well, I have to say I am very impressed.

being my first experience with the unit with no prior research or reading, it did take me a little while to come to terms with the whole set up process, but after talking to Andy, I reran the setup and the whole thing took less than 10 mins to do...after that, finely tuning it took less than half an hour...the only real issue I heard after the auto tune was the midrange (female vocals) was a bit too in my face. Aside from that, everything is remarkably good. Of course I have to mention that I myself aren’t that great of a tuner, and the Dyns are speakers I am not very familiar with, so someone who has a much better ear may still desire to do the tweaking themselves…but I can see for someone like me, this unit can save me a lot of time after the installation is complete.

I am amazed at how this car images very much in the center regardless of where your head is or how far back you sit, the center channel does a great job and does nothing to limit the width of the stage. I also enjoyed how the rears add a lot of airiness to the whole experience, really did make me feel that I was sitting in a much larger room than a little hatch back.

so yeah...very cool, there are some small things I would like to see differently on the unit, but almost all of them are ergonomics and installer-friendliness related, rather than anything to do with SQ...

But...Vu should be home now after his 4 hour drive, so I think he will be able to provide a much better impression on the system. 

Cheers,

Bing


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## drtool (Nov 26, 2007)

Top Shelf as always.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

your avatar is awesome lol


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## NoelSibs (Jun 21, 2010)

Great install!

I love the way you integrated the center channel. It looks very nice indeed. I too am (as are others, I'm sure) interested in the MS-8 but I'm apprenhensive because I don't know if I'll like the "tuning" of it.

I would like to know, how did you tweak the "bright" midrange (female vocals)? Is there a way to do it on the MS-8's UI? This is basically my only concern with it. I don't want to buy and install the thing just to find out I don't like the way it "auto tunes" the system. Would you recommend this to people who want an EQ? 

I'm sure a lot of people like to "tweak" their settings. To what extent can this be done on the MS-8? 

Sorry if I have so many questions... I'm really confused on whether I want it or not. Thanks for any input you have.


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

*Ver 3.0*

Version 3.0 was mainly waiting for the MS-8 since initially reading about it in CS&P Forums in late 2006. Even in the face of vaporware jokes from my buddies during CES last few years, I was secretly rooting for the MS-8 to materialize. I guess I got discouraged and impatient, hence Ver 1.0 with full Zapco active and Ver 2.0 passive waiting for that "right" processor. Version 3.0 is the final version.

I flew down to pick up the car tonight and drove home nonstop from San Jose. I listened to music for ~4.5hrs; most at 80% full volume. STRAIGHT. I've never done that. I was totally engrossed mainly with the demo CD Bing gave me that included very diverse but well recorded songs. Everything from David Benoit's Rebach to Nils Lofgen Keith Don't Go to Steve Strauss Bones to Eagles Hotel California (Hell Freezes Over) to Rammstein's Du Hast to Dr. Dre Nuthin' But A "G" Thang. Usually there are tracks that I just skip or play on the intro but this time I listened to ALL of them. Twice! Yes, I was enamored by Bing's build quality but moreso I was engrossed in the music processed by the MS-8. WOW. It's as GOOD AS I IMAGINED IT TO BE since reading about it. It made every track, diverse as it is, on that CD just sound delicious. Everything thrown at it came out fantastically good. I'm just floored. In fact I came home thinking:

1. I might actually enter the car in one or two events in NorCal
2. This is the endgame for me. I see no point upgrading anymore. I really have found the Grail in the MS-8. It's that good to my ears.

Props to Bing for the clean install but even better was his inclusion of a crossflow fan in the false floor to cool the MS-8. After using the system almost full tilt for 4hrs., the MS-8 is cool as a cucumber and the Tru and JL amps were only slightly warm to the touch - even after being covered by the grille cover, floormat, and cargo boxes in the trunk. No pops, no noise, no DSP failure, no overheating. 

Props also to Don for steering me to the Rainbow 4in coax for center channel. I was dead set on the Morel Integra 4in but it was at ridiculous price. The Rainbow matched the Dynaudio Esotecs pretty well IMO. I also kept two Tru SSLD6 line drivers in the chain. I know Andy doesn't endorse LDs but I strongly feel they help minimize noise and help amps stay cool by minimizing the gains.


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## jayhawkblk (May 29, 2007)

Vu it looks good. B you always do good work. Vu i wish you lived closer I would love to take a listen espcially with the MS8 in play. I caution you though. Never say never there is always room to grow and improve LOL. Look at the transformation of my cars. You need to come out and Hear the E55. I have not fine tuned it but damn!!!!


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

Indeed Marquise, never say never. Especially when Don is always tempting you with new hardware 

Great to hear your system is coming along nicely. If you have a hankering to bring it to Vegas during CES in Jan I'd love to hear it. 

Best regards,
From the guy that has just ONE Super Billet 8


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## NoelSibs (Jun 21, 2010)

*Re: Ver 3.0*



BodegaBay said:


> It's as GOOD AS I IMAGINED IT TO BE since reading about it. It made every track, diverse as it is, on that CD just sound delicious. Everything thrown at it came out fantastically good. I'm just floored.


I'm sold!!! You guys seem so convinced, I can't help but be convinced! Now I just gotta finish my enclosure and get the MS-8!!!!

Great install by the way... I love the finish of the floor and great choice of gear! I love Dynaudio... great vocals from there...

Cheers and Thanks!

Nice ride!!!!


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Amazing work again Bing!


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

NoelSibs said:


> ...I'm apprenhensive because I don't know if I'll like the "tuning" of it.
> 
> I would like to know, how did you tweak the "bright" midrange (female vocals)? Is there a way to do it on the MS-8's UI? This is basically my only concern with it. I don't want to buy and install the thing just to find out I don't like the way it "auto tunes" the system. Would you recommend this to people who want an EQ?
> 
> I'm sure a lot of people like to "tweak" their settings. To what extent can this be done on the MS-8?


Noel: don't be. The MS-8 does not limit you to just the auto-tune. After the initial calibration, you can adjust the 31 band EQ, tone control, system levels and other processing to your liking. It's truly a game changer IMHO.


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## jayhawkblk (May 29, 2007)

BodegaBay said:


> Noel: don't be. The MS-8 does not limit you to just the auto-tune. After the initial calibration, you can adjust the 31 band EQ, tone control, system levels and other processing to your liking. It's truly a game changer IMHO.


I wish it had more channels because one would be in my car already if it did.


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## jayhawkblk (May 29, 2007)

BodegaBay said:


> Indeed Marquise, never say never. Especially when Don is always tempting you with new hardware
> 
> Great to hear your system is coming along nicely. If you have a hankering to bring it to Vegas during CES in Jan I'd love to hear it.
> 
> ...


Vu that is a long Drive. Now if John at Tru wants to use my car as a demo and ship it out there then we are talking.


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

So so clean! Good to hear the MS8 cracked up to be everything you hoped. I would love to try one someday, but importing is the only option down here as far as I know.


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## glidn (Apr 21, 2007)

Very nice,

I have received a few great Idea's for my mk5 GTI golf.

But i'm really set on the MS-8 now.

As always a stunning install.

Might have to organise a set of those pods from you.


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## NoelSibs (Jun 21, 2010)

BodegaBay said:


> Noel: don't be. The MS-8 does not limit you to just the auto-tune. After the initial calibration, you can adjust the 31 band EQ, tone control, system levels and other processing to your liking. It's truly a game changer IMHO.


I've been researching some more... Thanks BodegaBay.

I'll post a thread when I've got all the gear together and have the install set.

This is a great build! Great job to simplicityinsound!

Enjoy and wish me luck!


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## HertzGuy (Jan 23, 2010)

I get a hard on for anything Mk5 and this was no let down!

Center channel looks amazing!! I was told by my car guy awhile back to NOT go with a center channel, now seeing what you accomplished, I think I want to give it a try!!

Great install, great pics as always

Bing you are the MAN


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i was not much for center channels either, but this one works really well...same goes for the rear fill...


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Great work as usual Bing. I'll owe ya a beer for dealing with Vu too ! 

Vu and Marquies ... ya didn't think I would see ya talkin about me ? lol
Now Vu, we both know you will never be done, Marquies as happy as a pig in **** can live in a river in Egypt, but he's not done yet either.


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

6spdcoupe said:


> I'll owe ya a beer for dealing with Vu too !
> 
> ...Marquies as happy as a pig in **** can live in a river in Egypt, but he's not done yet either.


I think it is I who should owe you both beers for dealing with me . Maybe in Jan? Happy as pig in sh*t river in Egypt? Ha too funny. 

And...you were right about the Rainbow driver. But I'm still keeping my iPhone though .


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

BodegaBay said:


> I think it is I who should owe you both beers for dealing with me . Maybe in Jan? Happy as pig in sh*t river in Egypt? Ha too funny.
> 
> And...you were right about the Rainbow driver. But I'm still keeping my iPhone though .


I will take you up on that ! Although you know me ... not much a beer drinker. Late night drinks maybe though ? Or another lunch contest ? :laugh:

Well, I can only offer my sympathy for that one !


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## sdsport92064 (Jan 22, 2009)

Your install skills are awesome. I am not a fan of circular fiberglass pods that reach out into the air for no reason other than to say, "look at all the extra flannel I had laying around!"

For me the best installs are stealth or OEM-looking and the way you integrated the center channel is exactly what I would look for in an installer. The fact that it looks like it took a freaking long time means no-one outside the community will appreciate it- but I think you achieved exactly what you were striving for.

Great job!


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## oldturd (Oct 31, 2009)

Nice work. That heat formable plastic is a Godsend isn't it?!


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## rugdnit (Dec 24, 2007)

oldturd said:


> Nice work. *That heat formable plastic is a Godsend isn't it?!*


Is that only available from Select Products? Anyone placing an order with them anytime soon ( that would not mind selling me some )?

Smooth as always BTW! Nice!


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## oldturd (Oct 31, 2009)

I think it's called Sintra plastic. You can order it from a plethora of places online. Occasionally you can find it at art supply stores. Or you could use Kydex. It's pretty easy to work with.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i am sure there are alternatives, but for the cost, and one big sheet lasts me half a year, i order it along with some other stuff from SP once in a while.


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

Bing,

Where did you get the cap for the tweeters?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Vu gave them to me, so i dont know, i havent burned out a tweet yet from a pop, so i am not in the habit of using them. but ask Vu, (bodegabay), he can tell ya.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

nepl29 said:


> Bing,
> 
> Where did you get the cap for the tweeters?


Dayton DMPC-20 20uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor | Parts-Express.com

I usually use ..

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/sho... &FTR=027-582&CFID=33215782&CFTOKEN=98240983


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

simplicityinsound said:


> Vu gave them to me, so i dont know, i havent burned out a tweet yet from a pop, so i am not in the habit of using them. but ask Vu, (bodegabay), he can tell ya.


It's used for DC offset Bing. I suggest to just about everyone going active to use em.


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

6spdcoupe said:


> Dayton DMPC-20 20uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor | Parts-Express.com
> 
> I usually use ..
> 
> Solen 20uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor | Parts-Express.com


Thanks Don.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

nepl29 said:


> Thanks Don.


No problem Nelson.


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## Shod (Oct 6, 2008)

I love how everything turned out it all looks great, but I do have a question why did you change out the MLKs for the Dyns? I know that may sound like a crazy question but I have always loved the way that the MLK speakers sound.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

thats a question i would prefer Vu to answer


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

nepl29 said:


> Thanks Don.


Nepl29, 

If you want to even be more exact on the uF values, use this chart/calculator here (Speaker Crossover Chart and Capacitance vs. Frequency Calculator) to determine the crossover points. Using a cap for active was one of the first things preached the senior members here when I joined some years ago.


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## rnd (Mar 14, 2009)

Very nice build. I'm impressed with the fabrication you did. Question about the MS-8 controller. What size is it if one was to try to build it into something. Was wondering if it would fit somewhere in my center console area.


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## seabreeze (Sep 1, 2010)

Quick question insead of pods in bottom of door, how much more work would of been to intergrate mids in door same location, that it would like its oem instead of pod added.

Did not want to get into more detail, as I dont want to hijack thread. I could im you, to explain further if you prefer..


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

if you mean molding it into the door, THAT would be a LOT of work...and in order to look right, you need to reuholster the entire door. also its tough with the pocket section since you cant just cover it due to the two buttons at the back of hte pocket for i think fuel cap? you would need to relocate it.

i would say...that would be easily 6 to 8 times the labor cost of this...conservatively speaking. some cars have a easier time with this, but with the Gti...i think it would be a ton of work in order to look right...


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## seabreeze (Sep 1, 2010)

Could you give a idea of cost to build pods as you did on that GTI.
That will help caculate, when you say 6 - 8 times more


Read through several threads of your builds, you do beautiful work.

Enjoyed them all ! ! !


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

rnd said:


> Question about the MS-8 controller. What size is it if one was to try to build it into something. Was wondering if it would fit somewhere in my center console area.


The LCD controller is about the size of a credit card (L x W wise). The only place that I thought it would look clean and unobtrusive was underneath the HVAC control console above the ashtray. The pic shows it was mounted upside down with the MS-8's mount mechanism but I think that still protrudes to much and doesn't give flexibility of angling it for and back. I've since located a pressure hinge from McMaster-Carr that will allow me to do that and make the controller look even more discrete.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

seabreeze said:


> Could you give a idea of cost to build pods as you did on that GTI.
> That will help caculate, when you say 6 - 8 times more
> 
> 
> ...



well, its totally dependent on what the shops charges...but it takes me about 12-16 hours total working time on these pods, not counting curing time, from start to actually getting everything mounted, wired up and ready to go...so...


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Vu you still going camping this weekend while i am in your neck a the woods?


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## frmdrkside (Jul 13, 2008)

Nice work as always Bing.


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## Jmirage (Nov 23, 2010)

*Re: Ver 3.0*



BodegaBay said:


> I was totally engrossed mainly with the demo CD Bing gave me that included very diverse but well recorded songs. Everything from David Benoit's Rebach to Nils Lofgen Keith Don't Go to Steve Strauss Bones to Eagles Hotel California (Hell Freezes Over) to Rammstein's Du Hast to Dr. Dre Nuthin' But A "G" Thang..


I am actually curious to know what else is on the demo CD. I have a super narrow genre of music that I listen to, so rarely get exposed to other types of music for good listening.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

its hardly a "demo cd" of any reference quality...just a bunch of songs that i scraped together a long time ago, after a while, i just keep on listening to it so it sorta became my reference cd for my no so great ears 

here is a list, though i dont use every track on each cd i burn 

Iasca left center right voices
hotel california live version
the best is yet to come - michael buble
Pick your self up - Diana Krall
dock on the bay - lincoln mayorga
some drum track that i have no idea who its by 
mountain dance - dave grusin
rebach - david benoit
keith dont go - nils lofgren live version
bad - MJ
Every Breath you take - ummm...forgot who this is, the sultry female vocal
mr. bones - steve strauss
simple - collective soul
some guitar and violin number by paganini i think
du hast - rammstein
nuthin but a g thang - dr. dre
improvisation - ron tutt
dreas pres. havannah - havannah
the coal train - huge masekela

again, just things i gotten into the habit of listening


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## nirschl (Apr 30, 2009)

simplicityinsound said:


> Every Breath you take - ummm...forgot who this is, the sultry female vocal


Eva Cassidy?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

prolly


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## Jmirage (Nov 23, 2010)

simplicityinsound said:


> Every Breath you take - ummm...forgot who this is, the sultry female vocal


I would guess Karen Souza


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## SfTrainer (Sep 6, 2010)

Hey Guys,

Been reading about Bing's installs for the last several months and everytime I read another one it just makes it harder to wait for my appointment in March.....being on his schedule is great, and in a way it's like torture until you actually get your system. I feel like a kid at Christmas only Christmas eve is lasting 4 months.


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## hunter660 (Feb 23, 2009)

Great work!


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## GSlider (Jun 11, 2009)

TRU amps. Nothin' else matters.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

Bing! I know this is an old post of yours, but have a MKV Jetta. I'm considering Dyn 3-way active setup. but the 3" mid is a large dome speaker. can you suggest ways in how I would be able to install those in stock locations without it being too obtrusive? 

thanks in advance!



simplicityinsound said:


> Then the hole that allowed air to pass through the top vent was sealed off with a piece of hardboard coated in bedliner, so air will only pass through the front vents from now on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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