# Whats with the Critical Mass boners???



## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I dont get why ppl are getting a boner over a $1k "5000 watt" sub on an SQ forum. I can think of much bettter low powered subs for 1/10th the price that probably sound better and weigh the same. Whats so great about these and why are ppl getting boners over them? For $1k I can build an entire system.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

chefhow said:


> I dont get why ppl are getting a boner over a $1k "5000 watt" sub *on an SQ forum*. I can think of much bettter low powered subs for 1/10th the price that probably sound better and weigh the same. Whats so great about these and why are ppl getting boners over them? For $1k I can build an entire system.


bingo

especially a DIY forum


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

chefhow said:


> For $1k I can build an entire system.



Im with you on the sentiment. As to the quote above, I thought that, but then I bought my sound deadening...and amps...then my head unit. and all of a sudden im over budget without anything to listen to... 

Silly budget went up to 1500...


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Regardless of the price, it's still a nice sub.

It's totally useless to me and many SQers since I would never dream of running enough power to get it moving. I wish they would make a UL 10" neo sub with resonable power demands.

I also don't think you can find too many comparable subs that weigh under 15 lbs.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> bingo
> 
> especially a DIY forum



Novel, what does it have to do wtih DIY or not? Shall we tally up the worth in retail of your front stage?


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

chad said:


> Novel, what does it have to do wtih DIY or not? Shall we tally up the worth in retail of your front stage?


ZING!!!!!!!!!!

I think that while Critical Mass probably does make a great product, they are grossly over hyped. This is just my opinion and I have not heard their products. But I don't see how any sub could be worth that kind of money unless the basket was made from platinum! LOL!


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

I think anything expensive that few people have seen will send ripples around the internet.

As for the driver itself, the idea of a raw 12" driver costing as much as a Velodyne DD12 or Paradigm Servo-15 home sub is kind of amusing to me. 

And they certainly are gaudy looking.


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

DS-21 said:


> I think anything expensive that few people have seen will send ripples around the internet.
> 
> As for the driver itself, the idea of a raw 12" driver costing as much as a Velodyne DD12 or Paradigm Servo-15 home sub is kind of amusing to me.
> 
> And they certainly are gaudy looking.


agreed, it would be nice if someone with some sense of style redesigned the cone graphics...or just removed them completely.


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## BLD MOVS (Sep 23, 2007)

JayBee said:


> or just removed them completely.


/\/\x2


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## nakamichidenon (Nov 5, 2007)

The same reason why you get a boner with a hot model or actress OR CAR ALL nice to look at,desirable,high maintnance but hopefully attainable....IF YOU COULD YOU WOULD......


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## ClinesSelect (Apr 16, 2006)

A review comes out in a magazine touting it as the greatest sub in the history of mankind is going to cause people who may have not owned many subs think it is the end all be all of subs. It's very similar to people who immediately reference a Motor Trend review of the latest supercar when a discussion of cars is started. As much as I dislike the "you can get something just as good for a lot less" response, I feel that might be the case in this instance unless you are buying the UL because of its light weight and smallish enclosure requirements. If the competing sub does not have to be a 12 then the options really open up (as in a "best sub regardless of cost" comparison).


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

Boostedrex said:


> ZING!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I think that while Critical Mass probably does make a great product, they are grossly over hyped. This is just my opinion and I have not heard their products. But I don't see how any sub could be worth that kind of money unless the basket was made from platinum! LOL!


 
Marketing baby, create the hype and they will sell. That's all it is.


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## Gary S (Dec 11, 2007)

Critical Mass products are top-notch.

Whether you need it or not is another question.

The Comps are super if you need shallow mounting depth or high power handling. If you don't need that, you can get comparable sound quality comps for 1/3rd the price.


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

Over hyped? I never even heard of them until recently, and even then I still couldnt find hardly any info on them. I did see the test report, but that was just one review/opinion.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

nakamichidenon said:


> The same reason why you get a boner with a hot model or actress OR CAR ALL nice to look at,desirable,high maintnance but hopefully attainable....IF YOU COULD YOU WOULD......


Actually I wouldnt, it just doesnt interest me, and I could if I chose too, it just seems a waste in my opinion.


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## qtipextra (Aug 7, 2008)

I remember seeing them at the CES in 2007. Nice subs, but definitely large power requirements and too expensive.


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## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

It gets the panties wet just thinking how good everyone talks about it.


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## qtipextra (Aug 7, 2008)

drake78 said:


> It gets the panties wet just thinking how good everyone talks about it.


lol.


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

you wear panties?


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## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

slvrtsunami said:


> you wear panties?


I occasional put on panties left behind from hot chicks.....>


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## brownmoses (Jul 23, 2008)

honestly, the ul is as good as they claim. by brother was a CM dealer. are there subs that can keep up with it output and sq at the same time? yes. any that can keep up at that weight. none. its an indulgence simply put. if weight really means that much to you, dont put a sub in, or buy this. its like buying an exotic car when you could extract the same performance from a less expensive machine.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)




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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

Two UL12's + optimal box = 80lbs and 5000w rms


Two comparable subs + optimal box = 150-300 lbs!

Some people it doesnt matter, I realize this, but NOTHING compares!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Aura?


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

chad said:


> Aura?



The 18"?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

tvrift said:


> The 18"?


1808? 

It's not but IF the a$$hole posted a mass it's 90's technology


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

chad said:


> 1808?
> 
> It's not but IF the a$$hole posted a mass it's 90's technology



Ummm, ok.


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

tvrift said:


> Two UL12's + optimal box = 80lbs and 5000w rms
> 
> 
> Two comparable subs + optimal box = 150-300 lbs!
> ...


if you go to the critical mass website and check the ul12 page theres a link to box specs and power. since its sensitivity is 96.5 or something like that it recommends only 1100 to 1200 watts. that rms rating is max it can handle.


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

kenk said:


> if you go to the critical mass website and check the ul12 page theres a link to box specs and power. since its sensitivity is 96.5 or something like that it recommends only 1100 to 1200 watts. that rms rating is max it can handle.


Negative.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

kenk said:


> if you go to the critical mass website and check the ul12 page theres a link to box specs and power. since its sensitivity is 96.5 or something like that it recommends only 1100 to 1200 watts. that rms rating is max it can handle.



Voice Coil Impedance: 1.5 ohm nominal per coil
Sensitivity: 96.7 db (2.83V / 1m) (coils in parallel)

Think for yourself, question authority  (Marketing)


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

http://www.iconenterprisesinternational.com/TechNote-CM/UL12Box.html


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

kenk said:


> if you go to the critical mass website and check the ul12 page theres a link to box specs and power. since its sensitivity is 96.5 or something like that it recommends only 1100 to 1200 watts. that rms rating is max it can handle.


The sensitivity is measured at 2.83v with the coils paralleled. It has 1.5ohm coils so with them paralleled that's 0.75 ohm. 2.83v at 0.75 ohm is just over 10 watts which means the 1watt sensitivity is closer to 86db/1w/1m.

Edit: looks like Chad beat me to it.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

ca90ss said:


> The sensitivity is measured at 2.83v with the coils paralleled. It has 1.5ohm coils so with them paralleled that's 0.75 ohm. 2.83v at 0.75 ohm is just over 10 watts which means the 1watt sensitivity is closer to 86db/1w/1m.
> 
> Edit: looks like Chad beat me to it.


Great minds.....

Did you look at the rest of the specs?


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

who cares all it needs is 1000 watts for small sealed end of discussion


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

kenk said:


> who cares all it needs is 1000 watts or small sealed end of discussion


I'll tell you what, you toss *A TRUE* 1KW at that driver for a day, hard, and tell me if it survives 

I'm not paying for it.

Better yet, you move the cone in and out and I'll hold a 1400W heat gunon the coil with the dust dome removed... regardless..... Even the magnet assembly... the neo can't handle the heat.


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

1w1m is actually 84.11db.


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

chad said:


> I'll tell you what, you toss *A TRUE* 1KW at that driver for a day, hard, and tell me if it survives
> 
> I'm not paying for it.


well its RMS rating is 2500 watts so it can definitely take 1k


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

kenk said:


> well its RMS rating is 2500 watts so it can definitely take 1k


Lets try it, bring it here, we shall use my amp, My power source, my signal generation, my scope.


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## ClinesSelect (Apr 16, 2006)

kenk said:


> well its RMS rating is 2500 watts so it can definitely take 1k


What does 2500 RMS mean to you and how was that figured derived?


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

well i use a w12gti mkii with my pdx1000.1....birth sheet was 1082 watts and i can run it up to max without any stress. well i never tried max becuase it might break a trunk panel


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

kenk said:


> well i use a w12gti mkii with my pdx1000.1....birth sheet was 1082 watts and i can run it up to max without any stress.


Bring it too 

I have beer, lots of it.

As long as I ain't paying for drivers.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Remember it sez, *RMS* and *Undistorted*, I can do that easily.


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

chad said:


> Remember it sez, *RMS* and *Undistorted*, I can do that easily.


So you're saying it CANT take 1000w rms?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

tvrift said:


> So you're saying it CANT take 1000w rms?


That's a LOT of heat, and remember I, may have a different opinion of what 1KW RMS really is, and it's not bloated.

Look at the assembly, how long is that going to take 1KW, Like a HP and 1/4, a **** ton of calories, and BTU of heat, this is a linear function folk, power is nice to translate. How fast can the motor shag heat at 1KW? 

Think for yourself, guestion authority (use common sense)


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

3210.8w to reach xmax in a 1.08 sealed box. Do you really think it will sweat 1000w rms? Also, I have both my ULs running off a Sundown 3000d and even THAT is not enough. I once tried 1 UL12 off the 3000D @ .75ohms and never heard any clipping or distortion.


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

chad said:


> That's a LOT of heat, and remember I, may have a different opinion of what 1KW RMS really is, and it's not bloated.
> 
> Look at the assembly, how long is that going to take 1KW, Like a HP and 1/4, a **** ton of calories, and BTU of heat, this is a linear function folk, power is nice to translate. How fast can the motor shag heat at 1KW?
> 
> Think for yourself, guestion authority (use common sense)


people dont buy subs to listen to sine waves. they listen to music and not always at max level


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

tvrift said:


> 3210.8w to reach xmax in a 1.08 sealed box. Do you really think it will sweat 1000w rms? Also, I have both my ULs running off a Sundown 3000d and even THAT is not enough. I once tried 1 UL12 off the 3000D @ .75ohms and never heard any clipping or distortion.


Have you measured what the amplifier is actually putting out? I'm talking power AT the speaker terminal, not what an amp is rated for at a certain input voltage.

'member, my amp, my source, my scope, all have cal certs.


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

kenk said:


> people dont buy subs to listen to sine waves. they listen to music and not always at max level



x2 
I forgot to ask that!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

kenk said:


> people dont buy subs to listen to sine waves. they listen to music and not always at max level


Define an RMS power rating. 

Note that they did not state a standard either 

I can get a 3" speaker to handle an INCREDIBLE amount of power.. for a cycle.

I'm not dissing yall, for buying the subs, but i am TOTALLY gonna model on up tomorrow in the enclosure listed above and see what it will do.


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

who cares...as long as you can hook it up to 1k amp and play music to max level without sending it into warranty


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

kenk said:


> who cares...as long as you can hook it up to 1k amp and play music to max level without sending it into warranty


/Thread, question answered. 

Can I use that as a sig?


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

now only an idiot would play a 30hz test tone for an hour at max volume and send it in for warranty and waste their time


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

chad said:


> /Thread, question answered.
> 
> Can I use that as a sig?


sure why not lol


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

kenk said:


> now only an idiot would play a 30hz test tone for an hour at max volume and send it in for warranty and waste their time


So you d not know the standard for the power rating?


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

I really dont think this hard about simple things, but are you saying that all RMS ratings are not actual RMS ratings?


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

chad said:


> So you d not know the standard for the power rating?


sorry im not a speaker manufacturer


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

chad=Wack. 

My UL takes 4 strapped sundown 3000d's for daily driving, and I've been pulled over by cops and given tickets for spl, and in court the cop said it sounded so good that I shouldn't have to pay the fine. 


true story


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

tvrift said:


> I really dont think this hard about simple things, but are you saying that all RMS ratings are not actual RMS ratings?



Hell no!

Time is a VERY important variable!

Even for music requirements!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

el_chupo_ said:


> chad=Wack.
> 
> My UL takes 4 strapped sundown 3000ds to daily driving, and I've been pulled over by cops and given tickets for spl, and in court the cop said if sounded so good that I shouldn't have to pay the fine.
> 
> ...


Have mercy.


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

el_chupo_ said:


> chad=Wack.
> 
> My UL takes 4 strapped sundown 3000d's for daily driving, and I've been pulled over by cops and given tickets for spl, and in court the cop said if sounded so good that I shouldn't have to pay the fine.
> 
> ...


Wow. Thats so cool wanna b jus liek u


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

tvrift said:


> Wow. Thats so cool wanna b jus liek u


Nice, Guys, I gotta hit the hay VERY soon, work is nuts, Be back in the morning for a bit


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

el_chupo_ said:


> chad=Wack.
> 
> My UL takes 4 strapped sundown 3000d's for daily driving, and I've been pulled over by cops and given tickets for spl, and in court the cop said it sounded so good that I shouldn't have to pay the fine.
> 
> ...


lol for reals? i can barely handle 1kw sealed. you should get an ear checkup


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

tvrift said:


> Wow. Thats so cool. I want to be just like you


Fixed...

And word, player, but we can't all roll this hard core.

On a serious note, why are you two defending a sub so much? It's not tied to your manhood. I'm sure it's a nice sub


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## Robdoggz (Sep 16, 2007)

If you really have 4 strapped 3000d's links to your electrical upgrade please. Why are we even giving a **** about this marketing team cough i mean sub this is sub sold to celebrities to rip them off i rather go ib and enjoy my extra cash.


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

Robdoggz said:


> If you really have 4 strapped 3000d's links to your electrical upgrade please. Why are we even giving a **** about this marketing team cough i mean sub this is sub sold to celebrities to rip them off i rather go ib and enjoy my extra cash.


4 gauge baby, 4 Amps, 1 gauge for each of em

I'm glad some people like them, but I don't understand the obsession/boner


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## Robdoggz (Sep 16, 2007)

You really running one i am half asleep so forgive my current dumbness do you have any build links/pics? I am trying to find something to keep me awake.


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## macman (Aug 10, 2008)

i have a few NIB IDQ 12's, 15's, and 8's in storage

the old stuff, nit the new crap


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## Robdoggz (Sep 16, 2007)

macman said:


> i have a few NIB IDQ 12's, 15's, and 8's in storage
> 
> the old stuff, nit the new crap


Nice now send me the idq 8's now or ill get the sewer horse to take them by force


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

This sub just happened to work out PERFECT for every design goal I had (same as he Illusion Audio version). No, I don't think that spending $1K on a sub is worth it (I paid a fraction of this). But, what I do know after 2 days of testing. It beats everthing else I've tried in this application so far. So, it has some worth to me.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=521344&postcount=174

Just for the record. Critical Mass does not actually manufacture anything. They sub-contract other peoples stuff and slap their logo on it. CM has some excellent products but has no substance behind it. Try to call their customer support sometime. You'll be unpleasently surprized. They are out of New York yet their customer service reps have no knowledge of the product and can hardly speak English.

ge0


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

chefhow said:


> I dont get why ppl are getting a boner over a $1k "5000 watt" sub on an SQ forum. I can think of much bettter low powered subs for 1/10th the price that probably sound better and weigh the same. Whats so great about these and why are ppl getting boners over them? For $1k I can build an entire system.


ever heard one?

just curious

personally I havent, but I certainly would like too, lol

this place is part of the marketing maching these days hence the change from peerless "finds" to "what about a critcal mass driver" lol, 

just take the good with the bad I guess


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

brownmoses said:


> honestly, the ul is as good as they claim. by brother was a CM dealer. are there subs that can keep up with it output and sq at the same time? yes. any that can keep up at that weight. none.


Chad mentioned Aura. Their NS12 model weighs 8kg, which is only a pound or two more than the CM sub. (The difference is there, but would be swamped by enclosure mass even if the enclosure were as light as possible.) And it's an underhung coil, so likely more linear in BLx than the oddly-optimized dual gap design of the CM.

Also, the Auras have the benefit of not looking like the kind of thing that might appeal to the sort of person who thinks that a Chopard Ice Watch is a classy thing to wear...


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

I have a CM tweeter in a bandpass box. It booms and is lightweight.


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## brownmoses (Jul 23, 2008)

chad said:


> Lets try it, bring it here, we shall use my amp, My power source, my signal generation, my scope.


do it!


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## MrDave (May 19, 2008)

You pay for size/weight/SPL at a good SQ.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

So all this talk about this sub in an enclosure, how about them in IB? Would one still need 1kw+ to get them moving? To get one moving? 

I'd like to cut some weight, but I still want it loud, SQL style.. I guess i haven't gotten old enough yet, so I want a bit of "boom" but I want controled "boom" in a lighter weight.. 

This is all that i'm interested in..


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

brownmoses said:


> honestly, the ul is as good as they claim. by brother was a CM dealer. are there subs that can keep up with it output and sq at the same time? yes. any that can keep up at that weight. none. its an indulgence simply put. *if weight really means that much to you, dont put a sub in, or buy this*. its like buying an exotic car when you could extract the same performance from a less expensive machine.


So it's out of the question to put an entry level, 8 pound subwoofer in my car if weight matters? 

Ridiculous statement. This is basically the "appeal factor" of not being able to get it for many. We want what we can't have, simply put.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> So all this talk about this sub in an enclosure, how about them in IB? Would one still need 1kw+ to get them moving? To get one moving?
> 
> I'd like to cut some weight, but I still want it loud, SQL style.. I guess i haven't gotten old enough yet, so I want a bit of "boom" but I want controled "boom" in a lighter weight..
> 
> This is all that i'm interested in..


Dude i never heard the sub. But i did pulled it out of the box and put some pressure on that cone...that thing was like brick wall. You could punch it and likely shatter the bones in your hand....hehehe....


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

3.5max6spd said:


> Dude i never heard the sub. But i did pulled it out of the box and put some pressure on that cone...that thing was like brick wall. You could punch it and likely shatter the bones in your hand....hehehe....


Well, thanks for the input, I would only have about 600-700w available for it once I wired it in series.. 

I'd rather not go with .75 ohm...


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

3.5max6spd said:


> Dude i never heard the sub. But i did pulled it out of the box and put some pressure on that cone...that thing was like brick wall. You could punch it and likely shatter the bones in your hand....hehehe....


I thought you got a chance to hear it a time or two? Maybe in the G?


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Well, thanks for the input, I would only have about 600-700w available for it once I wired it in series..
> 
> I'd rather not go with .75 ohm...


All mine was fed was 600w, it was more than enough for me.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

6spdcoupe said:


> All mine was fed was 600w, it was more than enough for me.


Thank you sir... The likelyhood of me acuireing one is slim, but who knows... If I do get one, it wouldn't be new, I couldn't possibly afford it..


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

So I guess you have to be a celebrity to see CM marketing? You must because I have never seen CM marketed anywhere. The only way I knew they existed was through message boards. That's what I don't get. People keep talking about marketing hype. I can't tell that CM has any marketing at all. Where are they marketing? Are there some ghetto bling-bling magazines in which they advertise?


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

6spdcoupe said:


> I thought you got a chance to hear it a time or two? Maybe in the G?


Nope.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Mooble said:


> So I guess you have to be a celebrity to see CM marketing? You must because I have never seen CM marketed anywhere. The only way I knew they existed was through message boards. That's what I don't get. People keep talking about marketing hype. I can't tell that CM has any marketing at all. Where are they marketing? Are there some ghetto bling-bling magazines in which they advertise?



Well thats the thing...they run ads in these magazines to that BLING oriented segment of the population...some with lots of expendable income...they need to launder their money _*somehow*_.....

And having a sub that no one on the block has...well them are _*bragging rights*_.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Ge0 said:


> This sub just happened to work out PERFECT for every design goal I had (same as he Illusion Audio version). No, I don't think that spending $1K on a sub is worth it (I paid a fraction of this). But, what I do know after 2 days of testing. It beats everthing else I've tried in this application so far. So, it has some worth to me.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=521344&postcount=174
> 
> ...


A _*very good*_ reason to _*not use *_the products.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Yellow is 1.08CuFt
Blue (APPROACHING flat) is in a 6 CuFt enclosure) (what winIDS deemed as optimal)


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

And from my modeling yes, in fact I see them as IDEAL for IB providing they have the mechanical power handling to compensate for theri lacking efficiency at 1 *watt*.


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## ClinesSelect (Apr 16, 2006)

They, Icon-TV/Critical Mass, used to have a monthly ad in Car Audio & Electronics and other more vehicle oriented magazines such as Truckin'.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

chad said:


> And from my modeling yes, in fact I see them as IDEAL for IB providing they have the mechanical power handling to compensate for theri lacking efficiency at 1 *watt*.


So, Chad, what is that saying to me? Break it down for me... all this technical mombo jumbo (I keed I keed..., but seriously, break it down)


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

It modeled out most linear in a 100Cubic Foot box  It's a very high q driver, I'm just unsure how "loud" it will get before it reaches either it's mechanical or thermal limit. As you can see in the 1CuFt box the enclosure is allowing a rise centered at 60 cycles up a couple dB but sacrifices low end in return.

Lunchtime!


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Thanks mang..


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## brownmoses (Jul 23, 2008)

its_bacon12 said:


> So it's out of the question to put an entry level, 8 pound subwoofer in my car if weight matters?
> 
> Ridiculous statement. This is basically the "appeal factor" of not being able to get it for many. We want what we can't have, simply put.


you are correct. but the 8" sub is not likely to have the sheer output of this driver.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

chad said:


> It modeled out most linear in a 100Cubic Foot box  It's a very high q driver, I'm just unsure how "loud" it will get before it reaches either it's mechanical or thermal limit. As you can see in the 1CuFt box the enclosure is allowing a rise centered at 60 cycles up a couple dB but sacrifices low end in return.
> 
> Lunchtime!


MAkes sense.....lightweight driver....marketed to guys that could be in the import tuner segement.....they like to BOOM around town.

How many of them would use it IB....seriously doubt it.

You don't even have to do the math.

I never modeled it but I was alway under the impression it was more in the AuraSound league...guess not.


And my response.....*.NEXT!*


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Well maybe Aeron's 2.5RS/WRX would use it IB.


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## chrisw85 (Apr 24, 2008)

For some reason, I'd feel better about purchasing an Aurasound NS12-794-4A versus the UL-12. Granted, I have not listened to either


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

brownmoses said:


> you are correct. but the 8" sub is not likely to have the sheer output of this driver.


You misread my post slightly, I was stating an 8 pound driver, not an 8" driver. I recently bought a pair of those Nakamichi 10's on ebay for like $85 shipped for a pair and one of them does a hell of a job in my car off less than 200w rms. I was VERY pleasantly surprised with it's output and clarity.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

GlasSman said:


> Well maybe Aeron's 2.5RS/WRX would use it IB.


If I ever got one, it would be the only way... And yeah, I likes a bit of boom fo my trunk.. lol... 

I'm trying to mix, sound/show with street/race all in the same package..


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> If I ever got one, it would be the only way... And yeah, I likes a bit of boom fo my trunk.. lol...
> 
> I'm trying to mix, sound/show with street/race all in the same package..


Before you decide on any IB sub you should check out the AE IB units!


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## Gary S (Dec 11, 2007)

Here are some patent numbers and summaries by the designer of this driver:


6,917,690
Electromagnetic Transducer Having Multiple Magnetic Air Gaps Whose Magnetic Flux is in a Same Direction


The “Dual Gap” patent. A transducer motor with a yoke, magnet, plate, magnet, plate assembly. Both magnets are polarized in the same axial direction, and the magnetic flux flows in the same radial direction over the two magnetic air gaps. Huge Xmax is achieved by handing off a voice coil or voice coil pair from one gap to the other, to produce extremely high SPL with absolutely minimized distortion.

6,940,992
Push-Push Multiple Magnetic Air Gap Transducer
The “Dual Gap Return Path” patent. A transducer motor with two drive magnetic air gaps over which the magnetic flux flows in a first radial direction, and a low reluctance return path gap over which the flux flows in the opposite radial direction. A bucking magnet between the dual gap structure and the return path plate increases the flux density in the two drive gaps, and the return path gap lowers the reluctance of the magnetic circuit. 

6,996,247


Push-Push Multiple Magnetic Air Gap Transducer
Another “Dual Gap” patent. A transducer motor with a yoke, magnet, plate, steel spacer, plate assembly. Magnetic flux flows in the same radial direction over both magnetic air gaps. A voice coil or a voice coil pair is handed off from one gap to the other, to produce very high SPL and minimal distortion.

7,006,654


Push-Pull Electromagnetic Transducer with Increased Xmax
A transducer motor of the “push-pull” variety in which magnetic flux flows in opposite directions over two air gaps, and the voice coils are wound in opposite directions or one is driven 180° out of phase. The motor uses the “hand-off” technique of the Dual Gap motor, to achieve large Xmax with extremely low motor‑induced distortion.

7,065,225
Electromagnetic Transducer Having a Low Reluctance Return Path
A cup / internal magnet transducer motor with one or more drive air gaps and a low reluctance return path gap. Magnetic flux flows in a first radial direction over the drive air gaps, and in the opposite radial direction over the return path gap. Increased flux density with lower reluctance, resulting in higher efficiency.

20050041831
Electromagnetic Transducer Motor Structure with Radial Thermal Extraction Paths
A transducer in which a heatsink (which can also serve as the frame) includes spokes which extend radially through the motor, to get the heatsink as close to the voice coil heating area as possible, and provide a highly thermally conductive path extending radially out of the motor.


20050190946
Dual-Gap Transducer with Radially-Charged Magnet
A Dual Gap motor in which the magnetic flux flows in a same radial direction over the magnetic air gaps and is provided by radially-charged magnets.

20040131223
Electromagnetic Transducer Having a Hybrid Internal/External Magnet Motor Geometry
A transducer motor with both an internal magnet (inside the voice coil) and an external magnet (outside the voice coil). Some configurations permit post-assembly charging of both magnets in the same direction. Some configurations use the Dual Gap technology. Some configurations use the Return Path technology.

20040212254
Tube Geometry Motor for Electromagnetic Transducer
A transducer motor with an elongated steel tube for a yoke. The elongated shape enables the motor to fit into spaces where a conventional, round motor would not fit. Very high magnetic flux density can be achieved. The yoke can be made from inexpensive, off-the-shelf tubular steel stock.

20040213430
Laminated Motor Structure for Electromagnetic Transducer
A transducer motor in which some or all of the steel components are formed as laminated layers of steel separated by thin layers of electrical insulation. Eddy currents, inductive heating, thermal compression, and induced opposing flux are minimized.

20050190945
Shorting Ring Fixture for Electromagnetic Transducer
A transducer motor in which an aluminum shorting ring serves double duty to sink eddy currents and to hold other motor components in correct coaxial alignment.

20060039578 Audio Speaker with Graduated Voice Coil Windings An audio speaker driver having a voice coil with graduated windings such that different sections of the voice coil have different electrical resistances and/or lengths per unit of height of the voice coil. A center portion of the voice coil gives a greater BL, while outer portions give a lower overall electrical resistance.


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## guitarsail (Oct 12, 2007)

Gary S said:


> Here are some patent numbers and summaries by the designer of this driver:
> 
> 
> 6,917,690
> ...


Ok got bored after the first...but isn't that the same thing as JBL GTI's Dual Differential Driver motors..


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

chad said:


> Before you decide on any IB sub you should check out the AE IB units!


Oh, I have and they are VERY boner inducing... It just the way the basket is shaped, I would have to cut the opening (where the back seat sits) to get them to not hit the floor.. 

Hell, I even got, crap, can't remember his name, from AE, to send me the drawing of the basket, so I could get good hard numbers to make my in-car measurements from... No go, without cutting, and i'm trying to avoid that if possible... 

But for the price, the looks and from what everyone says, they are like a sore weiner, you can't beat'em... I might just have to cut the car... I donno... It would only be 2 half moon shaped cuts... but cuts, none-the-less


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Oh, I have and they are VERY boner inducing... It just the way the basket is shaped, I would have to cut the opening (where the back seat sits) to get them to not hit the floor..
> 
> Hell, I even got, crap, can't remember his name, from AE, to send me the drawing of the basket, so I could get good hard numbers to make my in-car measurements from... No go, without cutting, and i'm trying to avoid that if possible...
> 
> But for the price, the looks and from what everyone says, they are like a sore weiner, you can't beat'em... I might just have to cut the car... I donno... It would only be 2 half moon shaped cuts... but cuts, none-the-less


Wow, i may need to re-look at them.... I thought it was a pretty shallow basket


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> If I ever got one, it would be the only way... And yeah, I likes a bit of boom fo my trunk.. lol...
> 
> I'm trying to mix, sound/show with street/race all in the same package..


If it's done properly you can design a high performance *AND* lightweight system that can amaze people that appreciate stealthy systems AND impress people that can appreciate good craftsmanship.

It's the ONLY type of system I'll do in my vehicles....which is why I'm tuneless for the rest of the year.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

chad said:


> Wow, i may need to re-look at them.... I thought it was a pretty shallow basket


The basket is somewhat shallow, but the way it comes down from the mounting ring, to where it turns and goes to the magnet, is there I would have the problem.. 












IF I decide to cut, i'll have a pair of IDQ15's and a pair of IDQ10's for sale...


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm still waiting to see if I can trade some of my SS amps for a Aura NS15.. come on bdubs... lol... you know you wanna... lol..


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

guitarsail said:


> Ok got bored after the first...but isn't that the same thing as JBL GTI's Dual Differential Driver motors..


What about the Alpine DDW-F30A DDDrive sub 10 years before CM even existed?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Mooble said:


> What about the Alpine DDW-F30A DDDrive sub 10 years before CM even existed?


JBL started theirs with their EON lineup in the mid 90's


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> The basket is somewhat shallow, but the way it comes down from the mounting ring, to where it turns and goes to the magnet, is there I would have the problem..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oohhh, I see the light.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

chad said:


> oohhh, I see the light.


yeah, i've been eyeing them since i made a IB post way back... 

I wanna really move some air, but I want the SQ to...


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## Gary S (Dec 11, 2007)

Held by the designer(s).


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> yeah, i've been eyeing them since i made a IB post way back...
> 
> I wanna really move some air, but I want the SQ to...


i heard an IB AE15 in cvjoints new install at the socal meet and it is rather impressive. it can move some air and SQ is very nice.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

kenk said:


> i heard an IB AE15 in cvjoints new install at the socal meet and it is rather impressive. it can move some air and SQ is very nice.


I'm sure, i'll have to lok at what i'd have to cut again... and the price on them.... Yummy..


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

its funny because its a monster. his panels were loose lol. but to go into more detail the bottom end is very defined. not a lot of subs can produce that.


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

ok, Im drawing a blank...AE??

Also, I would have to agree that the $$$ just does not justify the driver!!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

slvrtsunami said:


> ok, Im drawing a blank...AE??
> 
> Also, I would have to agree that the $$$ just does not justify the driver!!


acoustic elegance

They make some cool **** for a good price.

http://www.aespeakers.com/

I'm planning an IB install between my shop and garage to feed both areas Their IB15 are totally up there on the list!


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

http://www.aespeakers.com/

Edit: Beat by Chad again


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## brownmoses (Jul 23, 2008)

its_bacon12 said:


> You misread my post slightly, I was stating an 8 pound driver, not an 8" driver. I recently bought a pair of those Nakamichi 10's on ebay for like $85 shipped for a pair and one of them does a hell of a job in my car off less than 200w rms. I was VERY pleasantly surprised with it's output and clarity.


haha i had a few at a birthday party last night.
i always wondered about those nakamichis,


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## skater (Mar 16, 2008)

I guess that means I have 2 boners... 

I am running 2 UL12's with 2 Zapco C2K 9.0's. 



























Still unsure about the UL12's, they take a lot of breaking in and need to get one of my amps fixed, but the sq is better than any other sub I have heard.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

What size enclosure?


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## Kmanian (Apr 8, 2008)

JayBee said:


> agreed, it would be nice if someone with some sense of style redesigned the cone graphics...or just removed them completely.



paint thinner takes off the graphics


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## Kmanian (Apr 8, 2008)

kenk said:


> if you go to the critical mass website and check the ul12 page theres a link to box specs and power. since its sensitivity is 96.5 or something like that it recommends only 1100 to 1200 watts. that rms rating is max it can handle.



I have put a saz 3000d to one, granted I didn't crank the bejesus out of it, but it saw every bit if 2k watts


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

dang thats a nice install skater. can't have one without the other. you must be loaded


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## Kmanian (Apr 8, 2008)

Ge0 said:


> This sub just happened to work out PERFECT for every design goal I had (same as he Illusion Audio version). No, I don't think that spending $1K on a sub is worth it (I paid a fraction of this). But, what I do know after 2 days of testing. It beats everthing else I've tried in this application so far. So, it has some worth to me.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=521344&postcount=174
> 
> ...


yes, they are out of new york, and Patrick definately speaks english, han he knows his stuff


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## Kmanian (Apr 8, 2008)

Skater, I am with you, I now have 4 of these boners. How is it going?


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## phoenix (Jul 19, 2008)

skater said:


> I guess that means I have 2 boners...
> 
> I am running 2 UL12's with 2 Zapco C2K 9.0's.
> 
> ...



damn... with that budget you could've fed all of ethiopia for 6 years. you should be ashamed of yourself


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

phoenix said:


> damn... with that budget you could've fed all of ethiopia for 6 years. you should be ashamed of yourself


after 6 years they would still be hungry again. why waste money keeping them alive when can have a nice setup


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## dftnz7 (Mar 2, 2008)

phoenix said:


> damn... with that budget you could've fed all of ethiopia for 6 years. you should be ashamed of yourself


And in the same 6 years of actually having food, they will produce 3 million more people that can't be sustained by their country's meager resources. Give them all you want, doesn't solve the problem. Yes, my sarcasm meter is on.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Time to bump this thread... 

I'll be rocking a UL12 in IB by spring ... Well, before that, but it's not getting covered in the "white death" so, she'll be tucked away till then.... 

I'm already prepped for IB, sealed side panels (over wheel wells)and C pillars.. I have to seal the rear deck yet, but a few plates and some silicone and that i'll be good.. 

I'll have the bottom of a Rockford power 1000 5ch to push this sucker ~700w we will see if it'll be enough...


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## LiquidClen (Dec 27, 2005)

Just traded for 2 of these... SVC 1.5ohms. Wire them to .75 and run them off a Sundown 1500D. We'll see how it sounds...


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

LiquidClen said:


> Just traded for 2 of these... SVC 1.5ohms. Wire them to .75 and run them off a Sundown 1500D. We'll see how it sounds...


WTF is wrong with you, running such low impedances?


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## LiquidClen (Dec 27, 2005)

chad said:


> WTF is wrong with you, running such low impedances?


Because 2 UL 12's off of 600W would not sound good  when I get money to buy another amp, i'll run 1 sub per amp @ 1.5. The sundown can handle .75 though lol.


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## Aaron Clinton (Oct 17, 2006)

*We should come out with a split coil driver with 4 shorting rings, then price it in the $800. Hehe.*


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