# Surface area or power?



## Damaged1 (Jul 9, 2010)

hypothetical question...

Let's say you have two TC-2000 12"s (DVC), a Lanzar Opti 2000D, and the ability to do up to around 3 ft3 ported.

The amp is rated thusly:

700 Watts RMS Power @ 4 Ohms 
1100 Watts RMS Power @ 2 Ohms 
1600 Watts RMS Power @ 1.3 Ohms 
2000 Watts Max Power @ 0.5 Ohms 

And the TC 12's like 900 RMS...

Would you be better off running both woofers @1 Ohm, or running a single woofer (in a lrger enclosure?) at 2 Ohms? Rather than the amp straining to deliver 800 watts per woofer, it would be able to give a single one 1100 watts and not strain as hard.

I am thinking that it might work out better to run the amp cooler and the sub in a bigger box and wind up with more power to the sub and come out with more loudness without sacrificing in quality?


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## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Why not use them both, @4ohms (coils per woofer in series, woofers in parallel)?
They may only get 700Watts total = 350W per woofer, since 2 subs are more efficient than 1 (because of the 2 motors and twice the cone area), it'll still go at least as loud as a single subwoofer with 1100W on it.
In theory, you should put 1400W on that single woofer to get the same output as 700W on 2 of the same woofers and in real life, you'd even need to throw some more power at that single one because of compression!

The amp will be strained even less hard if you do this and run even cooler, extending its life even more and saving a lot of current draw!

Isabelle


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

in my understanding

using just 1 sub would be a cleaner more dynamic bass, 

using both woofers could get louder but a little less clean/dynamic.

in a smaller vehicle id use 1, in a bigger vehicle id use 2.


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## Damaged1 (Jul 9, 2010)

And that is the central question in my theory...will one TC in the biggest box I can get it in efficiently running 1100 watts slam as hard (harder?) than two of them in slightly smaller enclosures getting 350 per woofer.

TC recommends a minimum of 500 per speaker, and I can tell you I put 400 to one and it barely moved in a sealed enclosure (yes, I know ported would be much more efficient).


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Damaged1 said:


> And that is the central question in my theory...will one TC in the biggest box I can get it in efficiently running 1100 watts slam as hard (harder?) than two of them in slightly smaller enclosures getting 350 per woofer.
> 
> TC recommends a minimum of 500 per speaker, and I can tell you I put 400 to one and it barely moved in a sealed enclosure (yes, I know ported would be much more efficient).


Not sure I buy the whole 1 sub is more dynamic than 2 but as a TC owner, My suggestion is to build as large of an enclosure as you can live with for the one woof and port it. If your electrical can handle the amp and the amp can actually handle the load you are placing on it.

Less woofer movement generally means less distortion. Running two woofs means dividing the load means running the subs cooler which means less thermal compression

Running 1 sub balls out means more thermal compression, more distortion etc... 

What are the ohm rating for each coil? Dual 4? dual 2? dual 1? hell dual 8?


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## Damaged1 (Jul 9, 2010)

They are dual 4ohm VC's...

I have the two in a ported enclosure now (each in its own section), and have been running them in 2 Ohm (1.3 according to TC's specs) config on the Opti2000. Kicks nice and hard, but KILLS my wee little electrical system (which, in turn, causes it to run hot and strain more due to low voltage). Hence why I was wondering if I could get 'full' performace out of 1 in a similar sized enclosure and all the juice going to the one while having the ability to turn down the gain a bit to lessen the strain on the electrical.

I am trying to figure out if I can actually do more with less...more or less the same output (but still clean) using less speaker, less draw on the electrical system and less required output (relative) from the amp.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Damaged1 said:


> They are dual 4ohm VC's...
> 
> I have the two in a ported enclosure now (each in its own section), and have been running them in 2 Ohm (1.3 according to TC's specs) config on the Opti2000. Kicks nice and hard, but KILLS my wee little electrical system (which, in turn, causes it to run hot and strain more due to low voltage). Hence why I was wondering if I could get 'full' performace out of 1 in a similar sized enclosure and all the juice going to the one while having the ability to turn down the gain a bit to lessen the strain on the electrical.
> 
> I am trying to figure out if I can actually do more with less...more or less the same output (but still clean) using less speaker, less draw on the electrical system and less required output (relative) from the amp.


Shame they are not in a common chambered box. Just make a plate to seal one speaker hole and try it.

As i am not familiar with the Opti2000, I have no clue about it's efficiency or output. Or what vehicle this is in. I am surprised though that the amp is running that hot. I have my TC wired parallel for a 1 ohm DCR on a 1500 [email protected] amp on stock electrical (80 amp alt) amp never gets hot. at most slightly warm.

And also surprised you have to have the gain setting up that high... Could it be an enclosure issue in regards to output? What are the specs? and again what type of vehicle?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

cubdenno said:


> Not sure I buy the whole 1 sub is more dynamic than 2 but as a TC owner, My suggestion is to build as large of an enclosure as you can live with for the one woof and port it. If your electrical can handle the amp and the amp can actually handle the load you are placing on it.
> 
> Less woofer movement generally means less distortion. Running two woofs means dividing the load means running the subs cooler which means less thermal compression
> 
> ...


cubdenno is right on the money !

Good time to start pricing a new car battery and alternator


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## Damaged1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Vehicle is a Scion Xa

I mis-spoke when I said 'runs hot', I didn't mean literally hot to the touch so much as I meant it was likely straining due to the lowered incoming voltage...when I hit a bass song, my odometer dims (and it really impacts the headlights...lol)

I don't have the box specs here, but I probbaly do on my home PC (I don't recall the exact size or tuning...built this thing 4 years ago or so)

But, here's some pics...and yes, I made the ports out of plumbing...thought it worked well and kinda matched the interior of the Scion a bit...the ports run about 13" down into the box IIRC


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## Damaged1 (Jul 9, 2010)

a$$hole said:


> cubdenno is right on the money !
> 
> Good time to start pricing a new car battery and alternator


Trying to avoid that by either using this amp and one sub in a more efficent setup or going with a whole new amp/sub setup (hence my other thread in SQ)

Really trying to re-think my approach and do a setup that uses less power more efficiently instead of pouring more power at it, ya know?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

G'Luck


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## Damaged1 (Jul 9, 2010)

a$$hole said:


> G'Luck


I take it your belief is that this is not possible then?

I don't know if it is or isn't...just trying to think 'outside the box' as it were...


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Well first of all, I would redesign that enclosure so woofers fire toward the rear. Without knowing tuning freq. Area of port, volume of enclosure, its hard to conceptualize what is going on. What is the fuse rating on that amp. No offense but I know that the lanzar name has lately not been what it used to be.

Dimming can be explained easily because the the electronics that govern the alternator can't react fast enough to the music/amplifier demands. So what you see as dimming is usally the result of the lights seeing 14 volts and then when that bass note hits and the ampp needs a bit o juice extra, the voltage drops for a split second until the alt can catch it back up. You see this a dimming.

Since this is audio and not space travel, money can solve all your problems!!

Your vehicle is a little more open than a standard car so cabin gain is a little less. Hmmmm Is there someone you know who could loan you an amp that you could try out?


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## Damaged1 (Jul 9, 2010)

When I first installed the TC's, they were rear facing in a sealed box and a US Acoustics 1000F on them. Decided to go class D and ported, and I had found out by experimenting that the woofers seem to work better facing forward (old box was more of a rectangle), so I did it that way...

And no offense taken...never thought the Lanzar was the greatest, just that it worked for the time and budget 

Here are the other specs on the amp (180 amps in fuses, btw):

Mono Block Subwoofer Amplifier 
0.5 Ohm Stable 
MOSFET Power Supply 
PWM (Pulse-Width-Modulated) System 
Double Sided Epoxy PCB Circuit Board 
Gold Plated RCA Inputs 
Custom Terminal Block for Speaker Connections 
Thermal, Overload Short Protection 
Remote Bass Control 
Soft Turn On/Off 
THD @ 1Watt/4 Ohm: 0.1% 
S/N Ratio: 90dB 
Frequency Response: 15Hz - 150Hz (+/-3dB) 
Damping Factor @ 20Hz/4 Ohms: 400 
Low Pass Filter: 50Hz-150Hz, 24dB/Octave 
Variable Subsonic Filter: 15Hz-40Hz, 24dB/Octave 
Variable Bass Boost: 0 to 18dB 
Variable Phase Control: 0 to 180 
Input Sensitivity: 200mV ~ 8V 
Input Impedance: 10k Ohm 
Line Output Impedance: 100 Ohm 
Fuse Rating: 30A x 6 
Dimensions: 10.08'' (W) x 2.12'' (H) x 19.1'' (L)


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

disconnect 1 sub and run just 1 sub on 1100 watts for a week, see how you like it.

it will perform ALMOST the same as in a bigger box.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

Damaged1 said:


> will one TC in the biggest box I can get it in efficiently running 1100 watts slam as hard (harder?) than two of them in slightly smaller enclosures getting 350 per woofer.


yes.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

2 big fukin amps in that whip


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## Damaged1 (Jul 9, 2010)

60ndown said:


> 2 big fukin amps in that whip


The amps are almost as big as the car


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

Damaged1 said:


> The amps are almost as big as the car


you well on your way 

i know you tried it the other way but,

Aiming your subwoofer box


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## Damaged1 (Jul 9, 2010)

60ndown said:


> disconnect 1 sub and run just 1 sub on 1100 watts for a week, see how you like it.
> 
> it will perform ALMOST the same as in a bigger box.


Just did this...sounds ok, but I don't think my theory is going to hold up...works great for a more mellow tone, and bumps pretty decent, but not nearly as hard as both wired at 1 ohm on the same amp.

Will leave it that way a couple of days and see how it sounds. One thing is for sure, if one of these on that amp wont satisfy me, I doubt anything else I get would either in a single sub config.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

15 



you sure you wired it so your getting 1100 watts?

wired incorrectly might only be 300.


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## Damaged1 (Jul 9, 2010)

60ndown said:


> 15
> 
> 
> 
> ...


pos to pos out to pos, same with neg...

Now you got me doubting myself...will double check it tomorrow with the multimeter...


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