# Suggestions for SQ sub?



## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

Preferably one that can still hit on the low side. I prefer to use a sealed box but I'm flexible on that. Not so worried about SPL. Clean is more important to me than loud. It will be driven by a JL HD750/1. 10 or 12 inch, preferably 10 though.


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## lincoln88 (Sep 24, 2016)

What type of music do you like?

What size/how many subs are you thinking?

What is your budget?

How big of a box are you willing to live with?


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

lincoln88 said:


> What type of music do you like?
> 
> What size/how many subs are you thinking?
> 
> ...


From classic rock to pop to light rap

Edited probably as you were typing for size. 1 driver

I'll spend what I need to to get what I want

About 1.75 cubic feet


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

How about a JBL W12GTI MKii works optimally in a 47lt sealed box and sounds great hits low and handles power...


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Elektra said:


> How about a JBL W12GTI MKii works optimally in a 47lt sealed box and sounds great hits low and handles power...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Also the Scanspeak Revelator 23W 9" sub that goes properly low in a 30lt enclosure - also very good choice...


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## impulse (Jul 5, 2014)

From JL Audio regarding box design



> Transient response refers to the ability of the subwoofer system to reproduce quick changes (transients) in the program material accurately. This is often interpreted as "tightness" or "looseness," which might be a dangerous terminology, since many people are more influenced by tonal characteristics when asked to qualify the "tightness" of the bass. Transient response is actually a function of accuracy in relation to time, rather than frequency. In music, sounds like drum strikes and quick bass guitar pulses are good tests of a subwoofer system's transient performance. A system with good transient response will reproduce these sounds with clear, "tight" definition. A system with poor transient response tends to blur these sounds over time, due to the speaker's inability to stop and start quickly enough to react to the signal accurately.
> It is generally accepted that an optimized sealed enclosure exhibits the best transient response characteristics. The control provided by the air-spring in a good sealed system contributes to generally outstanding transient behavior (Please note that at very high power levels, the increased distortion can overshadow this advantage).
> A ported enclosure can also achieve good transient behavior, but it will never be as good as an optimized sealed enclosure. It is possible, however, for a well-designed ported enclosure to have better transient response characteristics than sealed enclosures with higher Qtc's (above 1.0). The specific alignment of the sealed and ported enclosures plays a huge role in determining the transient characteristics of each individual subwoofer system.
> Single-Reflex bandpass designs can also have good transient characteristics if their bandwidth is fairly narrow, but again, not as good as an optimized sealed enclosure. As the bandwidth becomes wider, their transient response can degrade considerably.
> Dual-reflex designs generally exhibit inferior transient response characteristics when compared to the other designs. As with single-reflex designs, narrower bandwidths produce better transient performance than wider ones.


It's also important to know what the T/S parameters mean so you can better judge a subwoofer that you are looking for here: Page Title



> A driver with a low Qts of around 0.20 would have a large magnet and be able to move the cone with a lot of force. This makes for a tight driver. A driver with a Qts of 0.45 would have a smaller magnet and less control over its cone. So low values of Qts give a tight and punchy sound but with little weight or low bass and high Qts values give a slow and heavy sound that will give you lots of low frequency output. Watch out for drivers with really high Qts values of 0.6 or above, these would require such a big box to work correctly that in normal size boxes you don’t get much low end. They are better of being used on the rear parcel shelf of your car, where they can enjoy a massive rear chamber.





> Drivers with a very high mechanical Q (Qms) can sound more open, cleaner and have a better dynamic range. This is because they have less loss. The surround is more flexible, the spider is better constructed, they have better air flow and usually have higher sensitivity. So a high mechanical Q is a very good indicator of energy storage behaviou


That said, I have a lot of experience with JL Audio's entire range of subs and they do a very good job overall with SQ especially in Sealed enclosures. I'm sure there are tons of other SQ oriented subs that are cheaper. I also have the Earthquake SWS and in the same size larger sealed enclosure, the response is actually flatter than the JL W3v3 or W6v2 despite it being a shallow sub but they discontinued that one focusing on their smaller versions.
The only sub I ever owned that had very good transients in a smaller ported box was an old Infinity reference, man that thing sounded amazing but stupid me gave it to my stepson and lord knows what happened to it.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

The new DD 2012. 2000 Series
Or the 3012 if you want really nice.


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## jriggs (Jun 14, 2011)

On the more affordable side: Dayton HO, Scanspeak Discovery or the Peerless equivalent.

More expensive: Audiofrog GB, Scanspeak Revelator 32w, JL Audio W6, JBL gti

Most Expensive: Illusion Audio Carbon XL, Dynaudio, Morel Ultimo, JBL W7

Truth is there is a lot of solid options at every price point.


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## AyOne (Sep 24, 2016)

Image Dynamics IDQ10


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

in a 750il? e38 or e32? through the ski pass? Have you considered infinite baffle as well?

I would (and have) consider the JBL wgti and Dynaudio Esotar 12. LMK via pm if you need help with either, as I have both sitting here.
D


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

danno14 said:


> in a 750il? e38 or e32? through the ski pass? Have you considered infinite baffle as well?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




In a sedan IB is a good option... how many of each do you have?


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I heard an audio frog sub that was pretty nice 

Other than that jlw3,w6 are nice 
I really interested in the acoustic elegance stuff ...
It looks amazing .. the sundown sd3 like sounds really good too the SA line is fantastic up to about 70hz , the jbl Electra mentioned is pretty badass as well


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

oabeieo said:


> I heard an audio frog sub that was pretty nice
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Me too the AE SBP15 looks interesting... just not sure if I could fit the 15" in my car after I raise my floor for the amps...

Looks like a 12" will be better - the Esotar 1200 looks good - has a smaller frame to the JBL but I did love the JBL when I had it...


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

I have a single 12wgti and a trio of the esotar (sorta want to keep a pair of those, but I could be swayed)


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

danno14 said:


> I have a single 12wgti and a trio of the esotar (sorta want to keep a pair of those, but I could be swayed)




Lol... I am sure you could...

Is yours the MKi or MKii?


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

MkI. I dont care for the chrome cap


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## Izay123 (Jun 9, 2009)

I second the Audiofrog GB & JBL W12GTI recommendations--I currently am using both in the build for my business' Demo Vehicle: The JBLs are being used as main subs, & a pair of Audiofrog GB10D2s are being used as front midbass& Front SUB (HIPASS filter could be deactivated during SQ comps for full extension from just frontstage).

I FELL IN LOVE with the JBL W12GTI several years ago after I bought one & built an experimental 4th order bandpass enclosure for it: Without tuning one iota, I had excellent, Punchy by deep bass. No distortion at any level, Clean immaculate decay, no overhang, etc. 

When I got My Rover (the current business demo car), I got a pair of JBLs, & experimented with several different enclosures: both ported and sealed sounded mediocre at best, with the sealed enclosure being disappointing in overall output as well. Then I decided to go back to the tried & true for that sub, regardless of what the haters say (bandpass sucks, slow, one note bass, etc.) It was magic--I instantly had some of the best bass in a car Id experienced --Even before time alignment & EQ!

For you, Now that the W12GTI is scarce, I strongly suggest you look into the Audiofrog GB10/GB12 subs as an option to use as a replacement for the JBL. When you Compare each driver's t/s specs to the JBLs--they're remarkably similar, & specified by the same man!??

In that 1.75 Cubes, you could easily fit 2 12's sealed or even 3 10's.


If you're ever in the Portland area & want to take a listen let me know. Also, I should have more Audiofrog Info & personal enclosure tests etc coming up, because There's a good chance that I may be going all Audiofrog subs for the 2018 SPL competition season.





Some ask: how could a 4th order bandpass sound so tight & fast& Have such good frequency response? A few reasons: IMO If you can make your bass enclosure such that is has minimal variance of group delay in the passband, IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MANY MS OF GROUP DELAY YOU HAVE--Cause that's just time alignment. 

Also, a low-Mid ratio 4thnorder bandpass can play 80HZ & down even more capably than a sealed sub, with at least the same linearity, sometimes better consistency between door open VS doors closed etc: It's not peaky in a car if you've designed it right. 

I've never heard another vehicle (other than My Rover with three GTi subs on 3kw, sealed Bandpass) produce the kind of bass I've been addicted to since I first heard Stadium 18s at a concert at 5 or 6 years old I still remember the chills I got when I set foot in the Thomas & Mack center in Las Vegas. It was a beautiful sound: Tthe instant, 10-20+DB Peak --a sharp-hit & Kick in the chest Impact--with a decay so pure & fast it makes you wonder where it all went kind of bass. I've been doing my best to dissect each cause & effect scenario that applies to my setup inbetween the different variables involved. My goal is to start forming a basis for my own bass reproduction theory. 

I feel like most current info sources start off with flawed data & focus points, in addition to a tendency to oversimplify design segments (take, for instance, the tutorial on calculating slot port length on JL's website). JL Audio seems to endorse using a rule of thumb that gets more inaccurate the larger your build is ?. I just posted on their Facebook page for them to adjust that--Because many people rely on that source, & in turn, Tune their enclosure far lower than they thought.

In modern times with DSPs, we shouldn't even talk about transient response--Because You can easily adjust your time alignment to compensate for a 6 or 7ms group delay & be DEAD ON POINT if your enclosure provides fairly linear group delay in the passband. 

Ive heard this rumor for years on here: "QTC of 0.5 provides the cleanest, tightest, fastest bass with the best transient response" But in my experience, it's quite different. I firmly believe that the "transient response" data is fatally flawed: It has almost no bearing whatsoever on what we all listen to every day: Because we all use time alignment--& that makes initial "transient response" numbers useless bits of irrelevant marketing propaganda. I think many people use math to try to Validate the theory, but even if valid, It would be of zero consequence because you can just add a few inches to your time alignment value & compensate automatically for any initial delay. This math validation of irrelevant information can trick people into believing that they've reached the best sounding alignment because math says it is the "best & tightest". 

I could care less if I add a few more ms of delay to my mains than you do to get the leading edges to align. 

I care about what makes music sound real. 

I think the DIY focus on spec sheets & numbers without properly applied physics & experience sometimes bites this forum in the ass because it tends to perpetuate whatever rumor/reasoning is repeated most, regardless if the theory was actually tested in real life & judged by a trained ear, and then adjusted & tuned again.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

danno14 said:


> MkI. I chong care for the chrome cap




You have obviously heard both the JBL and Esotar - so what is the difference?

Which in your opinion is best and why? 


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

Vastly different applications and desired sounds. The esotars were very,very "dry", with extremely natural extension (IB) while the jbl was ported and had a signicant rise in the 40-80hz range. Largely used for rap and hip hop in my teen daughters car. I have not heard the jbl in IB or sealed myself, but have feedback from many who have. I'm planning a pair of the jbl 15's IB in an upcoming project. Also want to do a pair of E12's in a different car, but that one is third on "the list".


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

danno14 said:


> Vastly different applications and desired sounds. The esotars were very,very "dry", with extremely natural extension (IB) while the jbl was ported and had a signicant rise in the 40-80hz range. Largely used for rap and hip hop in my teen daughters car. I have not heard the jbl in IB or sealed myself, but have feedback from many who have. I'm planning a pair of the jbl 15's IB in an upcoming project. Also want to do a pair of E12's in a different car, but that one is third on "the list".




When you say dry? 

Did you not like them?


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## Izay123 (Jun 9, 2009)

danno14 said:


> Vastly different applications and desired sounds. The esotars were very,very "dry", with extremely natural extension (IB) while the jbl was ported and had a signicant rise in the 40-80hz range. Largely used for rap and hip hop in my teen daughters car. I have not heard the jbl in IB or sealed myself, but have feedback from many who have. I'm planning a pair of the jbl 15's IB in an upcoming project. Also want to do a pair of E12's in a different car, but that one is third on "the list".




Damn I love dry bass with good extension& noticeable fundamental....


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

Elektra said:


> When you say dry? *No notable "bump" at any point in the bass curve. Great low extension, that is felt more than heard. Easy and seamless transition to the midbass a the top end.*
> 
> Did you not like them? *Absolutely NOT the case, and the reason I said I am planning to use them in a build! That said, the cars I will be using the Esotar and JBL's in are notably different, as will the respective projects.*
> 
> ...


To be perfectly clear, I LOVE what I have experienced from both subs I mentioned, and would not have suggested them otherwise, nor would I still have some with plans to incorporate into projects. I do not have a foreseen need for the JBL 12 I have, so it is welcome to go to a new home


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

impulse said:


> From JL Audio regarding box design
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions and education references!!!



Izay123 said:


> I second the Audiofrog GB & JBL W12GTI recommendations--I currently am using both in the build for my business' Demo Vehicle: The JBLs are being used as main subs, & a pair of Audiofrog GB10D2s are being used as front midbass& Front SUB (HIPASS filter could be deactivated during SQ comps for full extension from just frontstage).
> 
> I FELL IN LOVE with the JBL W12GTI several years ago after I bought one & built an experimental 4th order bandpass enclosure for it: Without tuning one iota, I had excellent, Punchy by deep bass. No distortion at any level, Clean immaculate decay, no overhang, etc.
> 
> ...


Thank you for more education. I've been following the build thread on the Rover. Damn!!!! The JBLs are a bit too deep as I need to keep the box under 12"


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

Elektra said:


> How about a JBL W12GTI MKii works optimally in a 47lt sealed box and sounds great hits low and handles power...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Elektra said:


> Also the Scanspeak Revelator 23W 9" sub that goes properly low in a 30lt enclosure - also very good choice...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the suggestions. The JBL is too deep as I stated above but I'll check the Scanspeak out.


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

impulse said:


> From JL Audio regarding box design
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome info. Thanks!

For a while the more I learned the more confused I became. I'm hoping I'll turn a corner soon and the fog starts to clear. I'm sure I'm not the first newb to get too hung up on certain specs or T/S parameters. I really appreciate the education I am getting when I post.


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

danno14 said:


> in a 750il? e38 or e32? through the ski pass? Have you considered infinite baffle as well?
> 
> I would (and have) consider the JBL wgti and Dynaudio Esotar 12. LMK via pm if you need help with either, as I have both sitting here.
> D


It's an E38. BEST 7s EVA!!!!!

Haven't really considered IB. I will but think I'll like the cleaner look of a box to the exposed driver. I also load the trunk up frequently and would be worried about damaging it.


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

I will spend a few days researching the suggestions here and trying to model them in WinISD. Always open to more suggestions and real world experiences with any of the suggested subs.


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## Izay123 (Jun 9, 2009)

Dan750iL said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. The JBL is too deep as I stated above but I'll check the Scanspeak out.




Dan--The AUDIOFROG GB12s have 6-5/8" Mounting depth... Looks like I'll be placing an order soon to bring a couple into stock--So keep that in mind if you don't already have a previous spot to purchase Frogs. What coil configuration are you planning to run? Dual 4ohm?
Checkout my website if you have 30 Sec: www.RULoud.com


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

Izay123 said:


> Dan--The AUDIOFROG GB12s have 6-5/8" Mounting depth... Looks like I'll be placing an order soon to bring a couple into stock--So keep that in mind if you don't already have a previous spot to purchase Frogs. What coil configuration are you planning to run? Dual 4ohm?
> Checkout my website if you have 30 Sec: www.RULoud.com


I will thanks. Likely dual 4.


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## Wynndaddy (Nov 20, 2015)

Sundown SD3 

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Dan750iL said:


> I will spend a few days researching the suggestions here and trying to model them in WinISD. Always open to more suggestions and real world experiences with any of the suggested subs.


Make sure to model that DD. It's a American made monster with unlimited custom options. It doesn't get the respect it deserves.


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

Dan750iL said:


> For a while the more I learned the more confused I became. I'm hoping I'll turn a corner soon and the fog starts to clear. I'm sure I'm not the first newb to get too hung up on certain specs or T/S parameters. I really appreciate the education I am getting when I post.


That fog surrounds me. I get dizzy modelling sub after sub against each other in WINISD. Even when I don't really understand what I'm looking at. Then I get in a situation where I'm like the manufacturer recommends this but WINISD recommends that. And it just snowballs. 

I have a jbl p1024 that I plan to run but because of its obscene overall height and diameter, nearly 9" tall over all and 12.5 Dia. I'm already shopping for other options without having ever used the jbl 



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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

DC/Hertz said:


> The new DD 2012. 2000 Series
> Or the 3012 if you want really nice.


I like the specs on 1012. Im going to dog into that a little more 

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## jamesjones (Mar 8, 2007)

Wynndaddy said:


> Sundown SD3
> 
> Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk


This. Finally got a chance to listen to my SD3 12s. They blended pretty nicely as on just a simple amplifier crossover setup. Definitely get a thumbs up from me.


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

Wynndaddy said:


> Sundown SD3
> 
> Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk


That looks promising. thank you and the others that have suggested SD.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

ssa icon


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

DC/Hertz said:


> Make sure to model that DD. It's a American made monster with unlimited custom options. It doesn't get the respect it deserves.


Will do!


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

street.terror said:


> That fog surrounds me. I get dizzy modelling sub after sub against each other in WINISD. Even when I don't really understand what I'm looking at. Then I get in a situation where I'm like the manufacturer recommends this but WINISD recommends that. And it just snowballs.
> 
> I have a jbl p1024 that I plan to run but because of its obscene overall height and diameter, nearly 9" tall over all and 12.5 Dia. I'm already shopping for other options without having ever used the jbl
> 
> ...


You know from my post I feel your pain. I've done more than one "upgrade" without the previous iteration seeing the inside of the car. that's the first time I've typed that outy and it seems even worse now than it did in my head. 



street.terror said:


> I like the specs on 1012. Im going to dog into that a little more
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Let me know your thoughts when you do.



jamesjones said:


> This. Finally got a chance to listen to my SD3 12s. They blended pretty nicely as on just a simple amplifier crossover setup. Definitely get a thumbs up from me.


And a +1 on the SD-3.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

street.terror said:


> I like the specs on 1012. Im going to dog into that a little more
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


I was hoping they would be doing the new basket on the 2010-12 but it's going to stay only the 8 which I have used for the last 2 years.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

The 2000 and 2500 series are getting cast aluminum baskets this year and the 12" esp is coming this quarter.


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

I like the specs on a couple of the DD subs.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

I've got a couple 9512j's with soft suspension and Kevlar cones and caps. I've been trying to use them for 2 years now and can't stop procrastinating. Pulled the tsp and I'm not 100% sure I'll be completely happy. If I'm not I might recone them with the esp package later this year.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

nineball76 said:


> The 2000 and 2500 series are getting cast aluminum baskets this year and the 12" esp is coming this quarter.


Only the 8 is getting/keeping the ESP. I already tried to get the 12 for mine when it comes out. As of now they are not doing it


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

The problem with the DD stuff is its way too many models and configurations and way too little information. Simplify DD! WTH? What does the "soft" and "stiff" suspensions do to the T/S parameters? No mention at all. So much for knowing WTH your buying


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

Dan750iL said:


> And a +1 on the SD-3.


If I was in the US I would have bought an sd3 already. Being in Canada however it'll cost me $500cdn for a single 10 shipped ?

I have a local DD dealer so thats why the DD line has my attention. 

All I really want in life is my current Dayton 8's with a stronger motor and bit more low end extension. 
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## Izay123 (Jun 9, 2009)

dcfis said:


> The problem with the DD stuff is its way too many models and configurations and way too little information. Simplify DD! WTH? What does the "soft" and "stiff" suspensions do to the T/S parameters? No mention at all. So much for knowing WTH your buying




^^^X2^^^ what he said--& also they tend to promote ported only--& give general guidelines as far as box size & approx port length--But if they don't provide their actual T/S Specs, It makes it a build, test, adjust, test, & repeat kinda company to me... I don't get it. Their approach may work for some (especially guys trying to get loud) But they haven't yet convinced me they care about playing realistic sounding music--My version of SQ.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

The subs I've run: JL W1V2 12, Image Dynamics IDMAX 12, Arc Black 12, DD Super8, DD 3515, Illusion Audio C12 XL, Ground Zero GZNW 12, and JBL W15GTI MKII. 

Tuning factors aside...

The Illusion C12 XL probably had the best SQ. So transparent and ridiculous bottom end extension, it was addictive. But it's also the most expensive. The Arc Black, IDMAX, and JBL are also fantastic sealed performers. I'd love to hear the previously mentioned Audiofrog sub, as well as the Focal Flax and E KX subs in a car.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Any love for the Focal Utopia 33WX2? 


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## Izay123 (Jun 9, 2009)

Elektra--Didn't look very loud at all to me--Isn't that one specifically designed for ported Enclosures? ....


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## nhtunes (Jul 31, 2016)

I have 1- SS 12" 30W/4558T 12", in a sealed box on the floor right behind the console. Boss complains when he has to sit back there, but **** him, sounds beautiful. I cross these high around 120-125 because the kick for my 6.5" were getting excited and giving off an awful resonance. This sub easily holds its own and then some.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

Izay123 said:


> I FELL IN LOVE with the JBL W12GTI several years ago after I bought one & built an experimental 4th order bandpass enclosure for it: Without tuning one iota, I had excellent, Punchy by deep bass. No distortion at any level, Clean immaculate decay, no overhang, etc.


I'm very curious as to your 4th order bandpass BOX for your JBL W12GTI. I never considered a 4th order box before as they seem better for SPL. Do you have any details you could share on that box? I have single 12GTIii sitting in my basement being very lonely. I was originally going to see if i could squeeze into a center console of my mini van but it a big ole driver, that fourth order in the back may be a better fit.


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

Anyone have experience with the CDT Audio QEX-1020 or 1220?


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Izay123 said:


> Elektra--Didn't look very loud at all to me--Isn't that one specifically designed for ported Enclosures? ....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




I think it's ideal in a ported enclosure but also works in a sealed enclosure 

I have 2 of them so I think that would work? 


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## Majik (Jun 22, 2009)

AyOne said:


> Image Dynamics IDQ10


I second this. Arguably the best SQ subs you can get for the money. I prefer the IDQ12 for the extra output, but the 10s sound equally nice.

EDIT: Or IDMAX 10s if you have the extra power (and budget)


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## Izay123 (Jun 9, 2009)

1fishman said:


> I'm very curious as to your 4th order bandpass BOX for your JBL W12GTI. I never considered a 4th order box before as they seem better for SPL. Do you have any details you could share on that box? I have single 12GTIii sitting in my basement being very lonely. I was originally going to see if i could squeeze into a center console of my mini van but it a big ole driver, that fourth order in the back may be a better fit.




I say try it--I'd start off by reading the JBL Specs in detail & following exactly, taking care to double layer all surfaces if possible: 










Notice the sealed side is filled with polyfil, the enclosure volumes are GROSS inside VALUES- you don't need to calculate basket displacement or port displacement. I think you should just start off by using a 6" Diameter Precision Port. That keeps your end correction consistent, assures you a nice wide flare. Just remember to make the outside flange to flange distance an inch longer than the spec to compensate for flare.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

dcfis said:


> The problem with the DD stuff is its way too many models and configurations and way too little information. Simplify DD! WTH? What does the "soft" and "stiff" suspensions do to the T/S parameters? No mention at all. So much for knowing WTH your buying


They list T/S. The 1000-3000 are sealed box. And they will build whatever you want. Not many can say that.


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## Izay123 (Jun 9, 2009)

DC/Hertz said:


> They list T/S. The 1000-3000 are sealed box. And they will build whatever you want. Not many can say that.




Cool--New stuff I didn't even realize they did!


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

DC/Hertz said:


> They list T/S. The 1000-3000 are sealed box. And they will build whatever you want. Not many can say that.


So the T/S is the same for the stiff or soft suspension 2000 series? I dont believe that. I would try one in IB if I knew which one to buy buy Ill just go with the ones that list that


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

I found very limited ts parameters listed on their site. What has me scratching my head is there recommend enclosure volumes. Even with my limited knowledge a 0.69 qts doesn't Jive with 0.6-0.8 sealed. 

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

dcfis said:


> So the T/S is the same for the stiff or soft suspension 2000 series? I dont believe that. I would try one in IB if I knew which one to buy buy Ill just go with the ones that list that


Soft is the 2000. Standard is the 2500. Stiff would be a burp suspension. Very high power and small box for a higher peak. 
I was told once the 3000 is the best for IB. 
All you have to do is send them a email, they will reply back in a few hours. Or call


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Can anyone tell me those JBL GTI subs that have 5000 written on the dust caps are they any different to the ones with the silver and gold dust caps? 


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## jriggs (Jun 14, 2011)

Elektra said:


> Can anyone tell me those JBL GTI subs that have 5000 written on the dust caps are they any different to the ones with the silver and gold dust caps?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Only difference is cosmetic.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

jriggs said:


> Only difference is cosmetic.




Aha.... good to know as I may be getting one from a friend but I would most probably like to get another so if there was a difference then I need to think about the MKi version if I would rather get 2 MKii's instead


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

danno14 said:


> MkI. I dont care for the chrome cap




Sent you a PM..


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

Dan750iL said:


> Anyone have experience with the CDT Audio QEX-1020 or 1220?


Bump. Anybody?


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## Silvercoat (Dec 5, 2013)

I would be curious if anyone had any experience with the Helix subs.

Looking at the P10W, but would also be interested on any feedback on their B-Series or E-Series shallow subs.

Sadly I do not have any reviews for the CDT subs.

I can confirm the JBL everyone is speaking about sounds AMAZING.. if you can fit the monster in your car.

The Image Dynamics IDQ also has very good reviews everywhere I have read about it.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Silvercoat said:


> I would be curious if anyone had any experience with the Helix subs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Boy am I feeling stupid now... sold my JBL W12 GTI MKii which had 100 hours on it max because the sub was so massive it took 3/4 of the boot... 

Sub was phenomenal though ..... 

I wish I kept it as they hard to find and so heavy that shipping would cost more than the sub itself...

Now that I have a bigger car and wanting to go IB I should have kept it...











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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

I have ordered a 12" Sundown SD3 and a 12" ID IDQ. Both apparently work in a 1 cubic foot box and require the same size opening so I can very easily road test them. Both have no pole vent allowing me to keep the box a little on the shallow side and both seem well reviewed.


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## geogena (Jul 8, 2009)

With our experience here in the Philippines, sub bass speakers whether expensive or affordable all depends on crossover points and slope. Mid bass integration, which defines the upfront bass that we want to achieve, is a little bit tricky for regular tuners. Integration with the highs also is integral part of sub bass. Remember the first slap of the kick drum has a component of high frequency. Coupled with time alignment, any subwoofer will produce the sub bass that we are looking for. We have tried several brands including asian brands like Domination, Crescendo, Bewith, Alpine, JBL, Pioneer etc. box volume for 10" is best at less than 1cu ft in open cabin. Adding fiber fills will also help. 


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

geogena said:


> With our experience here in the Philippines, sub bass speakers whether expensive or affordable all depends on crossover points and slope. Mid bass integration, which defines the upfront bass that we want to achieve, is a little bit tricky for regular tuners. Integration with the highs also is integral part of sub bass. Remember the first slap of the kick drum has a component of high frequency. Coupled with time alignment, any subwoofer will produce the sub bass that we are looking for. We have tried several brands including asian brands like Domination, Crescendo, Bewith, Alpine, JBL, Pioneer etc. box volume for 10" is best at less than 1cu ft in open cabin. Adding fiber fills will also help.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


^^^This. Amazing how good a even something like a Pyle can sound, in the right box and correct integration with the other drivers, seriously no jokes.


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## RVA_LVER (Apr 28, 2016)

Definitely the AudioFrog GB subs... 


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

I agree. It seems that the enclosure has as much to do with things as the speaker itself. We put a sundown sa 10 in a tline box and it completely blew us away. Its tight and extremely accurate without any boominess which is usually the case. It blends in with the front stage nicely. I was shocked as I have tried a bunch of their subs and different configurations but couldn't get that just right punch, depth, smoothness and blend. I'm definitely looking more into tline boxes now.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

It's pretty hard to go wrong with IB in a sedan.

A few years ago, my girlfriend wanted some tunes. I didn't want to invest a lot of time or money. For subs, I used a pair of $80 twelves from JBL in an IB.

I was pretty bummed when I listened to her system; this modest solution sounded better than my carefully designed sub in my car.

"There's no replacement for displacement"


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

I agree about ib. I realized recently why I was so frustrated with finding the right low end in my vehicle. It's because in the late 80s and 90s all of my cars had ib set ups and now I'm dealing with boxes. The subs in my home theater are even ib. Its just something about this set up that boxes just can't seem to replicate. But also don't worrry about loading the trunk up. They will be fine. Just be aware of what your putting around them.


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## Sptsmed (Jan 20, 2010)

I have been running an IB 10 inch sub firing through the ski pass of my 2001 750IL for a long time now and very happy with it. I started out with an Oz Audio 250H, and then a few years ago switched to a KEF KAR 250B, honestly both have been solid.

The E38 is a ***** to get a proper stereo upgrade in, but it can be done, best of luck


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