# Pro Audio FJ Cruiser -- JBL, B&C, Beyma, Illusion Audio,



## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

It's about that time... I've been sitting on quite a bit of equipment, but the damn heat (115+ degrees) has kept my install at a stand still. But, I've been without tunes for so long, it's time to weather the storm and get going... a teaser pick to start: 









feel free to comment on the gear, if you can...

any idea on what else is coming/not in this photo?

there will be more to come... keep your eyes peeled


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## ryan s (Dec 19, 2006)

Where will the tape measure be installed? :laugh:

I'll guess...you're waiting on an MS-8 and due to the placement of the sub...2 more GTis


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

Install it all today so we can talk about this build for awhile. Love the GTi's one of the best if not the best subs built and I have used quite a few.

Good Luck with the install


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

balls... you are missing balls.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Are those ribbed paper midbasses JBL 2118's or 116H-1's?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ryan s said:


> Where will the tape measure be installed? :laugh:
> 
> I'll guess...you're waiting on an MS-8 and due to the placement of the sub...2 more GTis


actually the MS8 is installed already, under the front driver seat... i do have another GTI coming, but only one. I think 2 15's in the hatch will suffice, running off of a crown 2400 watt amp 



DAT said:


> Install it all today so we can talk about this build for awhile. Love the GTi's one of the best if not the best subs built and I have used quite a few.
> 
> Good Luck with the install


I had used two w12gti's previously, removed and sold, and then wished i still had them... oh well, these 15's will stay in my arsenal for a while... these handle gobs of power and sound sooo good... only problem i have is trying to get enough room for these subs and everything else on the table to fit in the hatch of the FJ 



Mless5 said:


> balls... you are missing balls.


your right... i lost my left boy from an accident, but my tape measure more than makes up for it... check it, it's going on 36" long:laugh:


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

DS-21 said:


> Are those ribbed paper midbasses JBL 2118's or 116H-1's?


actually they are the 2119h's... pretty much the same driver but with a bit more power handling, and newer. the performance as a midrange should be identical to the 2118's


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## hybridspl (May 9, 2008)

Is the Illusion Audio an illusion? What, where? And if you're not going to install it whatever it is, sell it to me


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

I know what's missing... *HORNS!* 

Tuning in for this.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

hybridspl said:


> Is the Illusion Audio an illusion? What, where? And if you're not going to install it whatever it is, sell it to me





TREETOP said:


> I know what's missing... *HORNS!*
> 
> Tuning in for this.


guess i could have gotten a pic of the horns, but they are in the truck in the process of being hung... i was able to pick these up for a steal - less than 300 hundred shipped, and they have the original Illusion drivers (blah) but i have stuck some B&C DE500 compression drivers to the bodies. I have heard that combo before, and the experience was unreal.


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## Installer4life (Jun 26, 2010)

I am in your same situation. I have the equipment but the heat here in Texas has put a halt on the install. I like music and love doing the installation but not a risk of heat stroke...


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Installer4life said:


> I am in your same situation. I have the equipment but the heat here in Texas has put a halt on the install. I like music and love doing the installation but not a risk of heat stroke...


What part of Texas?


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

oh damn, where did you pick up the JBL's?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

AdamTaylor said:


> oh damn, where did you pick up the JBL's?


which ones, the speakers or the amps?


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## funkalicious (Oct 8, 2007)

Definitely want to see how this progresses, especially running horns with the MS8. Subscribed.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

mattyjman said:


> which ones, the speakers or the amps?


speakers, i have been thinking about going this route as well since i went to spring break nationals


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## X-runner (Aug 7, 2010)

Got me beat!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

AdamTaylor said:


> speakers, i have been thinking about going this route as well since i went to spring break nationals


i got them from a place in cali that sells a lot of raw drivers, probably pulled from cabinets that have gone bad,etc... these were about 300 for the pair.. if you're referencing the 2119's. 

the subs, i got one from craigslist here, and the other off of ebay, all told i have less than 500 in both 15's..


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

so, first day in Arizona that it was relatively cool...

by that i mean that it was 95 degrees when i went home, and for those of you who don't know what it's like being in the heat, after 115 degree days, 95 feels like room temp...

anyway, figure its a good time to be outside with my FJ... 





so i wash it. 





stupid me, i should have started the install, but this baby needed a wash. 

i really am dragging my feet with the install, it's so damn hot out here. the other side of me dragging my feet is I am absolutely clueless on how to fit all this junk in the trunk while preserving some resemblance of useable cargo space. i know that's not really possible but i need room for some snow boards, and some suitcases... it's been racking my brain for days now...

i'll figure it out, but another teaser shot... i think i am getting closer to having things figured out in the back ...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

well, it's about time that i get my lazy ass off the couch and get started on this beast. it's been so hot that it's an immediate sweat fest as soon as you step aside. the last few days though, have been quite nice, so i took the chance to clean my garage, clear my tables and get started on this install. 

i played around a bit with different configurations of the back. with all the stuff i'm trying to fit in there, and trying to go ported, it's been quite a quandry for me. alas, i think i may have to settle for a sealed alignment, as i simply don't think that there is enough airspace back there for 8 cubes, ports, 6 amps, and 2 batteries, with power distribution. 




























I think this is the alignment that i am going to settle on... 










the amps all stacked will continue a type of "rack" style configuration, continuing the "pro-audio" theme. 

so today I started on getting the horns hung...

the beauties : Illusion Audio Horn Bodies with B&C DE500 compression drivers










because of the straight through design, many people feel that these are the best horns to run, but unfortunately they are incredibly hard to find. Thanks to Mikey7182 for helping me find these 










I made some brackets for the front tabs out of 1/8" aluminum, it provides a much more secure install vs some flimsy back strap



















cont....


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i had to use back strap on the back mount, but i wrapped it in electrical tape, to protect the wires by the ecu and also to add just a bit of rigidity to the strap



















and then hung:










and the obligatory "feet" picture:










completed the driver side the same way



















and plenty of leg room and access to the pedals still:










NEXT UP: 

Kick panels in the planning stage...

These 2119's aren't very shallow but it looks like I'll have enough room to do what i need to


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

I VOTE " HELL YEAH " on the JBL Wgti subs, best I have used and I've tried alot... only thing I didn't like was the Dual 6 ohms

SO I went with 3 !!

Keep us updated with all the upgrades.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

The next challenge I'll have to tackle:










This is going to be playing with tight tolerances both with the door and the door card ( the speaker just barely fits in there so there won't be much room for an extensive baffle)




























Depth doesn't seem to be too much of a problem here, but it's going to be close:


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

mattyjman, you probably already answered this but I don't see it- are those B&C 10NW64s that are going in the doors? I've been wanting to try out some 10NW64s, I'm curious what your thoughts are on them.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

TREETOP said:


> mattyjman, you probably already answered this but I don't see it- are those B&C 10NW64s that are going in the doors? I've been wanting to try out some 10NW64s, I'm curious what your thoughts are on them.


yes that's correct... they look good on paper but i have never heard them. i doubt they will disappoint though. I'll have to do more work on my doors sealing and deadening stuff, but the sole purpose of midbass duty and 600 watts on each side, i'm sure that they will have enough power to get my pants "fapping"

i modeled them in winisd, as best i could to create an IB type environment, and with the power on tap it says they should reach 120db. i'm not quite sure how that will translate into real world, but i think it's safe to say that they will hammer, hammer, hammer


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

lookin forward to see your opinion on the illusions. i have the CD2s from ID that i got quite a few years ago and im still running them. unfortunately i could not fit the large bodies in my GTi, so i had to use mini bodies, oh well. i have been contemplating using a pair of IDQ5.25's for midrange to fit in between the IDQ8's and my CD2's though - making my install similar to yours but with different drivers.

looking forward to hearing what your thoughts are on the MS8 too. i have the 701 from alpine, and i think it would be a neat comparison to do the auto-tune with the ms8, then put the 701 back in and apply the same settings the ms8 made with the autotune function. but im crazy like that lol 

good luck fitting all them amps in your trunk lol.


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## lowbudget (Aug 15, 2010)

lots of nice gear!! at least it was kind of cool today install looks great so far!


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## ncv6coupe (Oct 25, 2009)

:builder2: I pulled all my junk out of my car and will be proceeding with a pro audio install also, less the horns. In search of some super high efficiency 6"s for my kicks at the moment. Build on brother, Build on!!:thumbsup:


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

It's odd... the weather is starting to cool down a bit, and I seem to be getting close to final selections for my build. go figure... I think maybe subliminally my mind kept things in the air simply so i wouldn't have to work in the unbearable heat!

this isn't much of an update to most, but I am excited to say, non the least. 

i have decided to not go with the 10's. the car has less than 8000 miles on it, and i don't particularly care for anything that will void the warranty. also, getting a baffle to mount securely to the newly cut door would have been miserable. so, I turned my attention to some nice midbass drivers in the 8" size. i placed an order at us speaker and should be recieving them on monday. i'll keep you in suspense for now, but suffice it to say, these bad mamba jamba's are 5 inches deep 

my fiberglass supplies came two days ago, so i decided to dig into the car to prepare for the glass, deaden the panels and some of the car (i accept that this truck has lots of noise, but my system really won't care much ) 

This weekend I will be doing as much glass as I can, and getting ready to put the box and amp rack together. I have a friend that has a friend that has a cnc type router, and he's cutting everything i need. This time i can keep my garage relatively dust free

The rear panels off and the interior metal... most of this will get spot treatments, along with some deadening on each of the panels:

































i had to trim my kicks to fit the horns, and after i did so, I scuffed em up nice and good. the nice thing (bad thing) is that the interior plastic is really soft. scuffing them up will help the glass stick to the back, and I'll also be securing the mold to the kick panel with bolts and washers. 









I drilled enough holes to act as "anchors" for the glass









and then I turned my attention to masking off the areas for my rear speakers...

I have never used the tinfoil method, so i thought i would give that a try. I'm up in the air if it is more efficient, but if things hold up well then they may have saved me some time.

















well, that's it for today, but tomorrow and the following weekend should be some busy days. i hope to have the initial molds for the kick panels, rears, and the center channel, as well as the truck deadened. we'll see how much actually happens, but that's the goal at least.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Bummer you backed out on the 10's.

You planning on selling them?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

fish said:


> Bummer you backed out on the 10's.
> 
> You planning on selling them?


i will be actually... check my for sale thread 

I think these 8's will be a good replacement. They are less efficient, but have more xmax and the fs is real close to the same... enough for what i need anyway...


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## carfreak1024 (Aug 17, 2010)

JBL All the way, i have a BPX2200.1 and 2 w10gti subs and i love it, might do 2 15s Image Dynamics in IB config soonl


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## lowbudget (Aug 15, 2010)

man the work you guys do on here is still amazing to me i would love to hear one of them i was into car audio back in the day but that was long ago i don't even know what is good anymore with all the new internet companies i just remember ppi fosgate g&s designs orion it is sad they are all bought out now i remember taking my ppi down to phoenix to get repaired and seeing all the demo cars ahhh memories


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

well, it's early afternoon and I figured i would take a break now. I have been up since 6 today, plugging along on the install and getting things taken care of. I figured i would add an update while I am on break and then later today, I can do update #2. 

I started by glassing the pods in the rear. i am really happy with the tinfoil method and will use that going forward. It saved so much time, and pulling it off was a breeze. after about 4-5 layers of chop mat, this is how they looked...

























After masking for the kicks, I went to go check on them and was happy to see everything cured... pulled them out and they fit like a glove..


























I have since put on another layer and they are hard enough for what I need...

Afterward, we (thanks to Mikey7182 for lending a hand for a few hours) turned our attention to the kick panels and started glassing them.. these pics are with probably 5-6 layers of chop


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

while i was waiting for the kick panels to cure, I turned my attention to the interior panels that I pulled out on thursday... I spot deadened them and now you see the after math:


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i managed to pull the kicks when they were still setting (oops  ) and so left them out in the sun for a few more minutes to cure fully:










after which i pulled the masking off and let them cure some more










I just came back from doing 2-3 layers kyntex on both kicks, as well as two top layers of woven matt... letting them out in the sun now


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

Looks great man! I think pigment added to the resin is a must from now on. This red looks BADASS in person! I'm almost tempted to sand it down with 2000 grit and see how it looks without paint.


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

Great install with gear. Which JBL amps are those? I can't quite make them out in the pictures. They look like power/crown series but in a more sinister shade. I have power/crown myself but in the more traditional shade.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

ReloadedSS said:


> Great install with gear. Which JBL amps are those? I can't quite make them out in the pictures. They look like power/crown series but in a more sinister shade. I have power/crown myself but in the more traditional shade.


They are the same- he just pulled the mounting feet off. Much better looking, IMO.


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## ReloadedSS (Aug 26, 2008)

mikey7182 said:


> They are the same- he just pulled the mounting feet off. Much better looking, IMO.


Huh. The trim on my amps are silver/gray. I do like his better. Not that the ones I have are unattractive, just different.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

ReloadedSS said:


> Huh. The trim on my amps are silver/gray. I do like his better. Not that the ones I have are unattractive, just different.


I've got the same amps as well (see my sig). I have contemplated pulling the feet off and painting them black. I think he may be making some custom mounting brackets so he can leave them off permanently.


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## ALL4SQ (Mar 28, 2009)

Nice gear, Its always cool to see horns. Cant wait to see how it all turns out.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i got my box and amp rack all cut out, and thought that i would do a mock up to check fitment and to see how different it looks in real life vs computer drafting program. I think this will turn out fantastic...




























there will be ports and a JBL logo in raised vinyl on the front of the box... getting close... can't wait


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ReloadedSS said:


> Huh. The trim on my amps are silver/gray. I do like his better. Not that the ones I have are unattractive, just different.


i am limited by space, so eliminating the silver/gray mounting pieces saves me two inches per amp... this will allow me to sit 4 amps, side by side, in the amp rack

i like the way they look with and without the mounting trim, it just so happens in this install I'm going to have to do it this way...


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

Dude, that's why I wanted to work on the enclosure today! That turned out so sick!! We need to get that thing finished up.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

okay, update part 2... my back is hurting and the couch is calling my name, so i'll have to cut this second part of today short... either way though, considering everything i have done today, i've been pretty productive. 

ok, so the next part was to refit the kicks, make sure everything fits well, and then to start trimming to shape. 

here they are trimmed










next i aimed both baffles for the 2119's with dowels and hot glue. 










i proceeded to stretch the outer shape with grill cloth and glue gun. (boys and girls, glue guns are hot and can give you second degree burns... be careful  )



















there are a couple of areas that aren't perfect, but they are shapes that will easily be taken care of by some body filler.... on to the glassing










and that's it for today.... i'm exhausted 

*** a little tip for anyone that glasses... 

these nice plastic containers are not cheap, but are reusable. wait for the resin to dry, squeeze around and around until it all comes off of the bucket, and then pull. this is what you should end up with:


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## usacimember (Dec 24, 2009)

Illusions Audio will be back next year. The name was purchased by an American importer. It was supposed to be out this year, but that didn't happen due to final proto mods.


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## usacimember (Dec 24, 2009)

Nice work btw!


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

Excellent work.... Love the updates with pics


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

well, if there is one thing I have learned in the past, it's if you don't spend enough time with the prep before fiberglass, then you most likely will have more problems going forward. yesterday I was tired, wanted to finish, and speedily got the rest of what i wanted done. 

today, this is what i see from both kicks 



















While I was a little upset, it gave me an excuse to break out the kitty hair and give that a try. it was definitely interesting working with it, and I plan to use it to reinforce the kicks on the interior exclusively. it's heavy stuff, sets fast like bondo and can be sanded smooth. 

so i started to fill the gaps with this ****










on the left side, the weird stretching job i did caused a serious valley, so i thought to use the kitty hair on this as well










while that was setting up, I turned my attention to trimming the rear speaker molds










and a little something to keep me going in the morning !










I threw down a layer of rage gold body filler in a hasty manner










and began to do a first rough sand, allowing me to easily identify any problem areas that need to be addressed with another coating of rage.... the small dimples you see will get another coat and everything should all be smoothed out










i must say though, the kitty hair was easy to work with and the left side panel that i thought would give me the most grief (because of the way the grill cloth ended up) ended up looking the best after the first sanding and body filler session


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Nice recovery, and nice work so far.

Though I do not doubt your experience nor talent. I just want to caution
you with KittyHair. It is great stuff, I've used it for years and it does have
its downfalls. Be careful with sanding it thin, like up to an edge of plastic
or fiberglass. It can forum very thin cracks, now this isn't likely an issue
with upholstered parts but with painted ones. It can also span large gaps
but again watch for shrinkage... lol... 

You can do some really cool stuff with KittyHair. I've fixed many rashed
motorcycles, like that Duc of yours. You can also do some killer molding
jobs with it also, flushed in tail lights on this 748.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Nice recovery, and nice work so far.
> 
> Though I do not doubt your experience nor talent. I just want to caution
> you with KittyHair. It is great stuff, I've used it for years and it does have
> ...


thanks for the tip... i've never used kitty hair before so this was an interesting day. 

how many DUC's do you have? looks like quite a few in that picture


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

It has a learning curve no doubts, best to think of it as
a structural Bondo. But keep in mind, you can make
Kitty Hair yourself by using additives like milled fiber
glass, or an even finder easier to sand Bondo by 
adding micro balloons. Like all other fillers it has its
use and place. 

Sorry to say I'm no longer able to ride, at the time I
did have what was diagnosed as MDD or Multiple
Ducati Disorder. I miss most the homologated
motorcycles I owned. So, I picked up a car I've wanted
for years and started tearing it up, and here I am....


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

got a box in the mail today...










got my replacements for my 10's that will not be going in the doors any longer... I picked up some 8's... any guesses?



















Comparo against the B&C 10's



















and then against the JBL 2119's



















I can't wait to get these things in the doors


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

Ciare! The neo magnet structure looks a lot like my 8NMB420s did, but wow those are deep!


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Some people are CRAAAAAAAAAAAZY  

Kelvin


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

TREETOP said:


> Ciare! The neo magnet structure looks a lot like my 8NMB420s did, but wow those are deep!


wow... way to ruin a good guessing game  Haha, JK. All I can say is these ****ers are huge  I have a feeling that they can more than deliver...


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

You sure that FJ can handle that weight ? It's not a H1 Hummer you know 

j/k Sir ! ....Can not wait to see the install pics...

Awesome job...


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> wow... way to ruin a good guessing game  Haha, JK...


Well the part number is visible in a couple of the pics, I didn't figure it was that big of a secret.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

okay, so not much of an update today... i got home late from work so my daylight was limited... 

i turned my attention to reinforcing the outer parts of the kick panels. the fiberglassed molds made in the car were probably 3/8 inch or so, consequently they are not much of a concern for me. i strengthened the outer parts of the kicks from inside with kitty hair. i used a bondo spreader at first, but found that using my hands was much easier...





































while these were setting up, I thought they would burst into flames as they were so hott  I have never felt any chemical reaction before that was as hot as this... weird to say the least 

after they cured, I turned my attention to the outer parts of the kickpanels that needed more body work... 

it just so happened that it was pretty hot today and i mixed the rage to hot










after i got the right mixture


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

TREETOP said:


> Well the part number is visible in a couple of the pics, I didn't figure it was that big of a secret.


dang it! i guess my camera takes good shots then ... i didn't see that the numbers were clear until now...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

another small update... while i don't seem to get lots done all at once, I am making some great progress by doing 2 hours or so a day... 

today i did what i would consider my final sanding... there are a few parts that need just a smidgeon of filler and sanding but that isn't really major... 



















placed in the car for a test fit...



















tight tolerances 










and then i coated with spray paint just because...










and then lastly i made my ring baffles for the 8" midbasses, 18ga brad nailed every 1 inch or so...


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Nice work and progress. What type of finish are you putting on the kicks?
carpet, vinyl, paint?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Nice work and progress. What type of finish are you putting on the kicks?
> carpet, vinyl, paint?


thanks  

I'll be covering all the fiberglass pieces (center, rears, kicks) and the sub/amp box in black vinyl.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Those Ciare's are monstrous! I remember looking at the specs some months back thinking I'd found my MB speaker until I saw the 5" depth.

With 9mm of Xmax & low .4mH inductance you can't go wrong.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

fish said:


> With 9mm of Xmax & low .4mH inductance you can't go wrong.


that's kind of what i was hoping... I had the HAT L8's, and so hopefully these will do better in the midbass arena with higher efficiency drivers I'll be using


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

okay... big victory today  I managed to get my 8" midbass drivers in the door 

I was a little concerned about the weight of the drivers, the use of mdf baffles and how the door was going to hold up, but now all my fears have been alleviated. 

I started with the baffles that i glued yesterday. 

here's just a shot to show you the depth needed after the baffles...



















i had serious doubts about the mdf holding up with drywall screws if i ever had to take the drivers out again, so i put in threaded inserts










and just to make sure that the baffle won't come apart or anything... looks good










next, I took the baffles, drilled holes through the wood and door, I'll be using nuts and bolts to secure these baffles to the doors










once i got that all figured out, I coated the baffles in resin to "weatherproof" it, while i doubt that I will get a drop of water on them


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i had some foam baffle thingy's for the 10's that i was going to put in, so i cut one in half, and prepped them to be installed










here you can see the baffles mounted and the foam protectors... these go all the way to the back of the door, do not interfere with the window track, and will keep these Italian made puppies dry




























and FINALLY... speakers mounted to the doors...










It is most definitely a tight fit with the double baffles and the depth of the basket, but there is about 1/4" before the speaker would slap the door card










And now my wife can rejoice! :headbang: We have doors again!


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Nice milestone crossing! I have the same to cross, I'll be very
interested your impressions. I and struggling with to free air
or to enclose? What will you be crossing these over at and
how much power will they get? So, no CCF on the door or
vapor barrier? How is road noise compared to before the
install? Nice idea with the foam rain hats.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

the door used to have 2 huge gaping holes that i filled in my previous build. it is definitely quieter now than it had been before that. however, i have come to grips with the car being loud... it's got holes all over the place so water can drain out if you wash it inside. with the power and high efficiency drivers i am using, i really think i wouldn't even notice the difference, and so the added cost is not worth it to me. i have quite a bit of damplifier, but i am using that to spot deaden. 

as far as crossovers, i was thinking 300-250 down to about 80 and see how it goes from there. i have the ms8 so i will be playing with crossover points and finding what works best.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Sounds good! Though we drive very different vehicles they are both
loud just the same. Your logic with the sound deadening/supression
is one I wish I would have pondered before shelling out the money..
Our systems are also similar, along with speaker placement, the 
reason for all my questions. Plus the motivation factor.

Thanks again for taking the time.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Sounds good! Though we drive very different vehicles they are both
> loud just the same. Your logic with the sound deadening/supression
> is one I wish I would have pondered before shelling out the money..
> Our systems are also similar, along with speaker placement, the
> ...


what do you have in the works? are you going to post up a build log? i would be interested in seeing what you have got going


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

You don't have to look far, go to this forum and his the refresh. Mine
will be just under yours or close to it.


Here ya go. My progress is beyond slow but I really hope to do SOMETHING
on it this week. I've got a trip to take next week so I really would like to have
my door skins on to keep some of the road noise down. A little anyway.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/69339-89targa-carrera.html


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

Pictures no workey


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ they do now!


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

Hooray!!!! nice job man. im really considering this route as well after some of the stuff i heard in daytona.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i thought some of you guys might care to know... out of sheer jealousy of Treetop being able to listen to his new midbasses, I decided that it was time for me to hook up what I can as well, just so i can have some tunes back in the car. Its been MONTHS since I have had anything more than the IPHONE to keep me company on my way back home from work. So today I set out to run some temp wires, get two of the jbl 300.4 amps out, and get things popping. after hooking everything up, I ran the ms8 setup, and it wouldn't give me anything other than signal ok, level low.  I ran the set up anyway, and it sounded like complete ass. I ran it again, and ass again. I figured one more time couldn't hurt, so again, I ran it, and it sounded like ass. 

Pretty frustrated, I started playing with the settings on my 9887 deck, and in there I decided to turn off the sub (not sure why, but I did).... when I did, I didn't get any sound  Problem solved and lesson learned.... using the sub outs to feed the inputs of the ms8 - bad idea. 

Problem fixed, run set up, no problems, good to go. I ran the horns from 1250Hz and up, 24db/oct filter. Midbasses (playing as mids too right now) playing from 70 up to 1250 12db/oct. Turn up the volume and wallah... Music. 

I have to say, while this was a hasty 5 minute procedure to get some music going, it sounds pretty dang good. 

and MAN.... those Ciare 8's abso - ****in -lutely rock! I cannot put into words how happy they made me feel. It was a gamble, noone has tried them, they might have been too deep, but holy ****, these little puppies can slam. 

despite my crossover settings, the midbass and subbass that these 8's produced would have satisfied the pickiest "subless" guy. I threw Chevelle at it, 50 cent, Ludacris, 311, AC/DC, ZZ Top, Dave Matthews, Tool, and NON of it disappointed. There was so much force behind a kick drum, bass guitar line, etc... It was so good in fact, that I am having thoughts of stopping right there. forget the subs, forget the 2119's, center, and rears... 

but alas, I will push on and continue my install. It can only get better from here. But now I have some incredible tunes in my car. Thanks to Treetop for motivating me to hook things up!


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

LOL well you're very welcome.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Between watching ^ you two guys' installs, along with Mikey's REALLY has given me the itch to try out some horns.

I'm just curious, using horns & large PA midbass up front, are rear fill speakers really going to be that beneficial?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

fish said:


> Between watching ^ you two guys' installs, along with Mikey's REALLY has given me the itch to try out some horns.
> 
> I'm just curious, using horns & large PA midbass up front, are rear fill speakers really going to be that beneficial?


from what i hear about the ms8 and logic 7, it's almost a necessity. It sounds really good right now, but I know that from what I have heard from others and what I am experiencing now, I know there is a lot more to give.

as far as horns go.... you should do it! 3/4" tweeters just don't give you live like replication like horns do. Back in the day horns got a bad name because people either didn't use eq's or didn't know how, or picked bad speakers to pair with them, but now you have bitone's, ms8's, etc to help with the taming of the horns... there is no reason NOT to go with horns


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

mattyjman said:


> i thought some of you guys might care to know... out of sheer jealousy of Treetop being able to listen to his new midbasses, I decided that it was time for me to hook up what I can as well, just so i can have some tunes back in the car. Its been MONTHS since I have had anything more than the IPHONE to keep me company on my way back home from work. So today I set out to run some temp wires, get two of the jbl 300.4 amps out, and get things popping. after hooking everything up, I ran the ms8 setup, and it wouldn't give me anything other than signal ok, level low.  I ran the set up anyway, and it sounded like complete ass. I ran it again, and ass again. I figured one more time couldn't hurt, so again, I ran it, and it sounded like ass.
> 
> Pretty frustrated, I started playing with the settings on my 9887 deck, and in there I decided to turn off the sub (not sure why, but I did).... when I did, I didn't get any sound  Problem solved and lesson learned.... using the sub outs to feed the inputs of the ms8 - bad idea.
> 
> ...


Well guess who encouraged Treetop.?

BTW, how are your doors holding up to the 8's?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

okay, small progress today...

i turned my attention to the rear surrounds... i trimmed out the backs where the speaker will go, and started creating the trim rings from the rears. I hotglued the baffles into place, stretched out the grill cloth, and let the red stuff go... since the baffles are slightly angled to the front, i used some help from some heavy objects to make sure the grill cloth gets attached to the trim trim rings...





































hopefully later tonight i can keep moving forward strengthening the inside of the mold


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

just barely got home and thought i would post this up before i got started... i'm really happy how they turned out and they are going to look sweet when sanded smooth... next up is a layer of rage...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

sometimes i feel like i am brand new at this stuff. this time around i have had made so many mistakes it's not even funny, and it's stuff that i have never had a problem with. i mix the body filler to hot so it sets in a thee minute time span. 

i make a milkshake but put in way too much resin, so i have to add more body filler, which is a waste of both. 

the list goes on, and i can only hope that the stuff coming my way isn't any worse than it has been. 

on with the pics...

i took care of two problem spots on the kicks, one on each side...

right side kick: (it looks like there were two ridges about 1 and 2 o'clock, and now that's smoothed over)









and the back side looks pretty good as is:









on the left side: (i'm not sure how i got this, but it was a huge air pocket or something that i sanded through, but filled now)


















and the back side:









and a shot of what they will look like straight on... (they will be covered in black vinyl, hence the attention to detail)


















now, onto the funny part of the day (or not so funny, depends on if you're me or not), but i took the rear speaker pods pictured above and was going to reinforce them with a milk shake. so i mix up my body filler and resin (too much) and start pouring it in... 

the first one i pour too much in so it starts to drip everywhere. when i poured it, I didn't take into account the shallow parts of the mold, so when i started to "slosh" it around it all started pouring out. it would dripping out on top, on the sides, on the garage so i set it down and proceeded to get the other mold going. much to my dismay, the same thing happened again. so i said eff it. 

i took the excess milkshake (i mixed too much remember) and started pouring it on the outside of the mold as well. I was going to throw some body filler on top to round things out more, but i figured while the mold is already messed up, it can't get any worse. here is the resulting pics of those molds. was it a smart way to do things? probably not, but right now my luck hasn't been ship shape if you know what i mean. 




















tomorrow i'll be turning my attention to the center channel mold...stay tuned


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Really stellar work! Your fiberglass abilities are very good, far and above what I see often posted here. Your obsessive compulsive with fairing no matter the finish application that will be used, much like how I like to work with glass. I'm really enjoying following your work.......

Kudos' to you my friend!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thanks for the props... i would consider myself a novice at best when it come to fiberglassing, but i do make sure that the finished product is decent. 

thanks for the comments... i'm not sure how much visibility this thread gets on here, but it's nice to know that someone is enjoying following my build. i just want to get it over with and enjoy the end results.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> i'm not sure how much visibility this thread gets on here, but it's nice to know that someone is enjoying following my build. i just want to get it over with and enjoy the end results.



Likewise on my thread, but I'm quite sure I've lost several folks due to how freaking slow my progress is. As far as wanting to get it over with so you can enjoy your labor, that goes for me as well x1000


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## Sideways17 (Apr 10, 2009)

Hey OP, nice build!

Neat trick for reinforcing the kicks (or any fiberglass enclosure for that matter) instead of mixing the body filler and resin and then pouring it all over the outside, take the kitty hair and resin and mix that together then pour that on the inside. 

1. Mix kitty hair and resin
2. add hardener
3. pour mixture INSIDE enclosure and move the enclosure around so the "milkshake" spreads evenly and covers all the nooks and cranies.

This works AWESOME and makes the enclosure like concrete!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Sideways17 said:


> Hey OP, nice build!
> 
> Neat trick for reinforcing the kicks (or any fiberglass enclosure for that matter) instead of mixing the body filler and resin and then pouring it all over the outside, take the kitty hair and resin and mix that together then pour that on the inside.
> 
> ...


that's an excellent tip and one that i have used everytime i do kicks. this also helps in sealing any holes or weak spots as well. i wonder though how effective it would be with kitty hair?


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i feel like i reached a milestone today... i'm making some decent progress now and things seem to be coming together quite smoothly. yesterday i finished the kicks and they are prepped for vinyl. today I finished the rear pods and they are prepped for vinyl, started on the center channel mold, started building the box and amp rack, and now I'm hot so I'm taking a break... 

first, i started on the center. if you guys might remember, i was originally going to place a beyma 6.5" coax horn driver up front but since gave up on the idea, and you'll see why in a second. i have gone with a component set of jbl 508gti, and hope they will pull the weight that i hear they can. 

this is what's coming out...



















and this is what's left when i pull the gauge cluster



















as you can see, there isn't a terrible amount of depth inside the dash until you meet the ac ducts... maybe an inch or so. 

threw in the mid to check out placement and see what of the dash i need to trim...










i'm very happy to report that there was a small tab in front that i had to cut off, and this gave me enough width to get the basket in until it touches the ac ducts.... I thought i had to trim more, but that was all... makes me happy










and i started with the masking process. i was very carefull to make sure all of the dash was covered... I didn't want my wife to kill me










and i colored in the open space in the dash in dry erase marker so it would make it to the back of my mold, letting me know where I needed to cut










and finally, after 5 or 6 layers of chop and a cramped leg and hip, this is what we have 










the center isn't going to be this big, but i wanted to give myself enough room to play with to make this mold look as factory as possible


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

while that was curing, i turned my attention to the rear speaker molds... i broke out the sander and got going. while what i thought yesterday was a mistake, it made getting these to a "finished" point, easy as pie. 

here is the left piece after sanding



















and the right piece



















and then coated in black to see any imperfections, etc... there was only one, so i am happy about that



















and the moment we have all be waiting for... what does it look like on the rear panel itself??



















once i finished that, I pulled out the center mold, and am now taking a break... it feels good being productive in the morning!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

progress, progress, progress.... that's what i have been making lately  woot!

started on the box...the pieces were all cut on a computer controlled router table so everything fits beautifully. it doesn't cut angles, however, and that's how i got screwed. all the angles i needed to cut were done on a table saw, at 16 degree angles. so the first part goes together smoothly:



















but on the flat back piece, when i cut the angle, i realized i gave the my friend the wrong dimensions and the piece was just a little short. now, believe it or not, but with all the wood i have, i don't have any spare 3/4" sheets big enough, so i improvised. 

a few layers of fiberglass chop and kyntex over the crack, and body filler on the outside filling the crack. problem solved!



















i continued from there adding the double baffle and top trim panels, secured with countersunk screws, glue, and 18ga brad nails



















meanwhile...

i added a few more layers to the bottom part of the center mold, kyntex and some weave to tie it all together. i left this pretty big because i wasn't sure exactly how the center was going to look....


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

once the mold cured, i was able to take it out with my trim ring to play with placement and cutting options...




























i traced out my intended cuts and did a rough cut with a reciprocating saw..










and then with 80 grit and an orbital i sanded down the rest to shape










i used dowels and wood glue to secure the trim ring, maximizing usable depth and keeping the enclosure from being too big










i have some spare grills from some 6.5" speakers, so I decided to use that as a cover for the center channel. it is hot glued here where i wanted it with a trace out of where the mid is actually going to be placed...










then stretched with grill cloth and secured with hot glue



















and finally resin applied!










that's out curing now, so it's time for some breakfast!


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## English audiophile (Sep 25, 2010)

Great job so far, keep up the good work


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

okay, so the other day i was playing with my "center" of the stage, and decided to slide the balance slightly to the left, so it would be more on center with the car. doing so, pushed the stage further to the right. I was like, wtf. so i played more with the fader and I realized that i had the inputs swapped on the ms8. i guess that explains why i was only so-so impressed with the sound from the ms8.

today, i finally got the urge to swap the inputs and actually match the left to left, and right to right. after recalibration, everything seemed to wake up. the stage has much more width to it, as well as separation, and the midbass seems to be more "there" as well. the center is still off to the right just a tad, but when i get the center channel all fixed up, then that should solidify my center image. 

this seems like it could be a fairly innocent mistake, so thought i would share this with anyone who cares. when plugging in your inputs to the ms8, make sure they match :blush:


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

Great system build 

Are you going to vent the kick panels to the outside.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

okay... what a long week. phwew. work and school had been soo busy this week i haven't even had the chance to touch the build. it's crunch time this weekend i guess. 

so, i have wanted to keep working on the center channel this whole week, but when i get home it's too late. so today, i flew home and started right away. it doesn't look like much at this point, but this is one of the final pieces that is now almost ready for the finishing stage. 

so an idea of what we are working on, with the center channel grill and tweeter placed. i'm not 100% sold on the grill, but it would be easy enough to fab something else if i need to. 









a few images with the center placed in the car


















i liked what i saw, (not sure what you guys think, but i think it'll look good in a body colored paint) so i hot glued the tweeter mount in place, and broke out the body filler. there were also only a few problem spots that needed to be addressed with the original grill cloth stretching/fiberglassing job -- which is why the prepping stage before glassing is so important. 



















and a few pics of it in the car with the right shape


















finishing the rear speaker molds was so easy, although an accident, i decided to do it again on the center. i mixed up a milkshake, added hardener, and got it to a fairly thick mixture. i poured most of it on, and then used a 1" chip brush to spread it around evenly and to apply in areas where i couldn't "pour". what i like about this method, is that the natural weight of the milkshake pulls the mix down evenly, even hiding brush strokes, but it's thick enough as well to fill in any problem areas, stay put, and cure to a almost perfect finish....

this is what we have as it's curing now


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

okay, so after i did the milkshake on the outside, i did a milkshake on the inside as well, this time with long strand kitty hair. while not the easiest mix to work with, after curing this mold is a solid piece of rock. it's right up there with a diamond in the Moh's hardness scale !



















laying out the amps on the rack, i realized that i had a problem. they didn't fit. i cut out the size of the amp on either "leg" of the rack, to allow the amp to slide in there and make room for everything










and then i laid down a few coats of high gloss black on the rack










also took the opportunity to put down a thin layer of body filler to keep any of the cracks in the baffles from showing through the vinyl










the amp rack was designed to be modular, and easy to access. both top pieces will be covered in black vinyl, one side will be secured with grill guides while the other will be secured with wood inserts and machine screws. the box is also designed with easy removal in mind, and will be secured with l brackets and wood inserts. that way, when i need to use the FJ as a "truck" then i can easily pull out the subs and have all the room i need.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

the center channel didn't turn incredibly smooth after the milkshake, so i sanded it down with 120 grit on an orbital. after the initial sanding i threw down a guide coat of black paint










after letting that sit for a bit, i took some 120 grit to sand off the guide coat, which leaves me with only a few minor imperfections to be fixed. after this, it should be ready to put down a coat of high build primer and then paint.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

okay, small update:

the first top piece of the amp rack will be secured using grill guides so i can have easy access if necessary and no ugly screws or anything showing through the vinyl. the vertical piece shown in this picture will be secured with grill guides as well, giving easy access to the amps main controls, and will contain a 1" or so slit along the face to allow air though. i pre-drilled all the holes, mounted those that could be done now, and others will be done after vinyl. 



















the top piece now ready for vinyl, i painted the bottom and corners to make sure nothing shows through... just in case... because you can't paint after you put vinyl down










the back of the amp rack will house a set of fans, sucking air through the 1" slit in the front piece, forcing air through and over the amps heatsinks.... it's damn hot out here in the summer and don't want them shutting off. i have eight fans, but looks like there is only room for 7  



















this isn't the final resting point of the piece, but to give you an idea. i'll probably chamfer the inside of the holes, as the fans are slightly larger, and then possibly cover with vinyl. i'm not sure it's needed though, as this panel will very rarely be seen.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

cajunner said:


> why didn't you make a center pod that matched with your dash?
> 
> you could have made one that extended across the middle of the dashboard and ended with those silver things in front, it would have been a lot more airspace and it would have looked a lot more aesthetically appealing, your car dash is perfect for a more integrated center channel install, the cues are already there!
> 
> anyways, your work looks good and I hope that fried egg on the dash doesn't get too many comments...


i made the initial mold so big so i could do exactly what you are describing. maybe your fab skills are better than mine but i couldn't visualize anything else "not" looking like a blob on the dash. even if i made the center as wide and long as the dash, i still couldn't concieve of a viable solution that wouldn't look any better than what I decided on. 

with that being said, i doubt that this is the way the front stage will stay, but for now it is what it is. I would be more than interested in seeing what you have in mind for a center, so when i re-do it, i can make it more aesthetically pleasing. maybe a quick sketch or something? thanks in advance if you do.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

alright, update time... 

i'm getting real close. 

for many of you, since i haven't been working on one piece at a time, it may have been hard to visualize what i have been doing this whole time. in retrospect, waiting until i was done would have been better but I have been updating as I progress, and to keep me going in an efficient way, that means skipping from part to part. 

so, i wrapped up all the fabrication this week. no more cutting, sanding sawdust, etc. all i have left is wrapping and installing electrical. 

so, on to the pics...

the holesaw i used for the fan cutouts was just a tad small, so i broke out the router to do a roundover on the holes, to make sure the fan blades can suck out the air and move it through the holes efficiently...










i also trimmed out the front cover for the amps, opening up a 1 inch vent and a round over on that as well...










i also decided on bed liner for the kick panels, as it has a close match to the interior plastic panels










i don't have any pictures of this, but i took the time to add wood inserts into all the speaker baffles, so that I can have a secure mounting option. 

that was it for the last night, but this morning it was work time again. 

yesterday pretty much wrapped up all the fabrication, so i wanted to clean the shop a bit since it was quite a mess. 

this is the ugly:



























and after the cleaning... no more sawdust, and most of the tools are away where they belong


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

after that was completed, i was then able to turn my attention back to the kick panels and sprayed on a few more coats of bedliner spray




























i then completed the work needed for the rear of the amp rack, where the fans will be pushing air through



















i took the opportunity to counter sink the screws i'll be using for the ports... so here's a comparo










i also took care of the grill guides for the sub grill as well as painting the inside of the enclosure making sure nothing will show through with the vinyl


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

and then lastly until later today, i worked on the vinyl. i am a little rusty on this for sure, so there are a few areas that i'm not totally happy about, but for now, i like how they turned out.

ready to be sprayed... landou top by weldwood










cutting the vinyl close, and cutting "fingers" helps you stretch the vinyl as needed










and inserted the grill (not completed obviously, but inserted to make sure the vinyl takes the interior form


















and the center channel


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

I honestly thought i was going to be done today, but i am absolutely wasted. i forgot how much effort vinyl takes, and not to mention a 1 hour spray gun cleaning session. i let the pictures do the talking, but suffice it to say, i got the rear panels back in today, bolted the seats back in, and ran a 1/0 ground to the battery. that, and a whole bunch more, and i would guess another couple of days before we'll be able to wrap this puppy up.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)




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## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

that looks great. i'm always impressed when i look into your build logs


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## toysoldier3646 (Jan 25, 2010)

looks great man. I'm gettin ready to start my build with your old hybrids


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

Amazing Build!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

YES! Finally done for the moment and I have sound now. 

I ran a marathon day yesterday, getting up at 6:30ish and not finally finishing with a basic tune at 7:45ish later that night. My wife was nice enough to let me just work and get things done. With my eager need to get this finished, there aren't too many pictures documenting the progress, but I'll post what I have below, and then my initial listening impressions. 

So, vinyl is a pain in the ass. I'm just going to put that out there. The vinyl I have been using for all my pieces are 1 way stretch, so wrapping the sub was a pain in the ass. It didn't turn out exactly professional, but barely anyone will ever see the problem areas. (please excuse blurry pics, my camera was doing some funky things i think)




























and then with the top grill portion attached










I cut out the holes for the precision ports (thanks Adam!) and filled in the void with some caulk to keep any air leaking through



















and then the final box without the subs










and then the grill covered










on the inside flares, many people just paint the inside of the box so there isn't any wood showing. the problem i have had in the past with that, is the polyfill pops out and after a few weeks, there isn't any left!

problem solved: (yes i trimmed the flares before i put them in)


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i glued the flanges with pvc glue, and then used electrical tape on the port tube itself in case i needed to trim it



















and filled the box with loosely packed polyfill










and inserted the subs... final shot here










I then moved to getting all the speakers in and set up...





































beginning the wiring of the amp rack - not too much room for everything that's going to be in there


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

and then a couple shots of the finished set up





































all that's left for the back to build a panel spanning the width of the truck with the raised JBL lettering, and then filling the open spaces with some oem panels that I need to source.
____________________________________________________________________________

Okay, so listening impressions. At first I wasn't sure what to expect, and honestly with pretty much everyone ditching the MS8, my hopes for this system had been sinking. I have put a massive amount of effort into the fabrication of items solely for the MS8. I wouldn't normally use rear speakers, center channels, etc, so I was quite nervous. Mike had the MS8, and with only sub-par results, pulled it and installed something else. He was also at my house yesterday, so it gave me a good a/b comparison on what the MS8 really does. I won't divulge the information as to what has been changed (i'll let him tell it...) but it sounds much better than his previous MS8 set up. Needless to say, his front stage is nearly identical to mine, JBL pro mids, B&C DE500 mated to Illusion horns. BUT, he didn't use L7 nor have anything other than subs and a front Left and Right channel. So, that area was still unproven. 

After a generally basic, and half rushed auto-tune my thoughts are this: (Horns 1250hz and up, 24db/oct, Mid Channel (1250hz to 80 hz, 24db/oct -- midbass and midrange split at the amps at 320hz at 24db/oct), Center down to 100hz 24db/oct, Rears down to 100hz 24db/oct, Subs 80hz 24db/oct on down to 20hz subsonic at 12db/oct)

-The MS8 stage is absolutely incredible. The center is extremely high, there is no rainbow of the stage (from the low mounted horn, to center, back to right low mounted horn). The width is out to at least the side mirrors and the depth is beyond the windshield. It's the best tune I've ever heard (not just mine, but any car I have auditioned before) 

-The rears add so much to the overall feeling of depth. There are a few songs that I have demoed that have much of the left and right info coming from the rear, which is weird (Chevelle -- Safer Waters) but for most of the music I have auditioned so far the rears add an incredible addition to car stereo that I have never heard before. 

- The sub stage had a lot of volume right out of the box. Most people need to turn up the gains after the initial auto-tune, but I had to actually turn them down a bit... Probably a poor calibration or gain setting on my part. It is clearly coming from the rear. It integrates nicely, but I would like to have more of a disappearing sub stage. 

- The midbass is weak. WEAK. I know these Ciare's can hit, but with the subs plugged in now, I think the MS8 allows the subs to pull a lot of the lower octave midbass duties. Perhaps I'll try a lower sub crossover to try and wake up the upfront midbass punch. 

- I have horns? Audition my car and you'd ask the same thing. Don't get me wrong, this puppy gets loud, but the dynamics and "in your face" sound that horns and PA drivers normally bring have since been removed. I wouldn't say sterile, but more tamed. I wonder how much of that is because my center channel is the only non PA driver piece of equipment in my car. If I replaced it with the Beyma Coax horn I have, I wonder if I'll get the dynamics back? 

- That pretty sums up my initial thoughts. I'm not sure what I'll do from here. I have two strong interests, being "live" sound reproduction (i want to be at the concert when I'm in my car), and staging. It doesn't seem like the MS8 can offer both at the same time, so I'm struggling with my next move, and which interest is stronger -- Staging vs. Dynamics. 

So, I'm kind of disappointed. While at the same time, I'm quite impressed. It's really quite a strange feeling. I don't know if that makes sense, but I'm going to tinker with it a bit more to see if I can eek out a bit more dynamic out of this.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Matt, thanks for taking the time to post your wonderful build log & your first impressions. Sorry you were somewhat disappointed. That's the third person with horns & an MS-8 that were not satisfied. Hmmm... maybe I won't try horns afterall. 

Keep us posted if any improvements with the MS-8 are found.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

fish said:


> M Hmmm... maybe I won't try horns afterall.


I would be cautious of an incorrect assumption as to the problem here. It is NOT the horns. It must be the MS8 that somehow tames the horns in a way that you lose the expected advantage to horns. It sounds very close to a regular speaker set up had I just a standard set of speakers in there. 

I would encourage you to try horns, but with a different processor. As I said, I had an opportunity to do an a/b comparison yesterday with Mike (different processor) and while the stage wasn't as "spot on" or technically accurate, the sheer output and dynamics simply made me smile, and then quickly frown when I heard mine. 

Anyway, after more listening today I am still undecided on what to do. It sounds simply amazing, but it's good at all the wrong things that I want.. I'll continue to play and tweak, and hopefully get the desired result. If not, I'm ousting the MS8. I spent a lot of money on getting items that I know would get me the sound I want, and I've come too far to end up disappointed.


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> I would be cautious of an incorrect assumption as to the problem here. It is NOT the horns. It must be the MS8 that somehow tames the horns in a way that you lose the expected advantage to horns.


Truth.



> I'll continue to play and tweak, and hopefully get the desired result. If not, I'm ousting the MS8. I spent a lot of money on getting items that I know would get me the sound I want, and I've come too far to end up disappointed.


I can relate 100%. Hopefully this works out for you, but if not we'll figure something else out!


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

when you turn up our down the sub gain on the ms-8 it turns up our down your mid bass also 

I had a problem with my systems bass being loud but my mid bass was not 

After talking to Andy he told me that the sub gain adjusts both mid bass and sub at the same time to keep the bass up front 

so try turning your sub down and upping the sub gain on the ms8 and see if that helps your mid bass 


great install bro


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

I've been following your build for some time now, fantastic job!!
I hope you get things sorted out to your liking.

I know exactly what it's like to spend your hard earned cash as well as time only to reach disappointment in the end.
IT SUCKS MAJOR HAIRY BALLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GOOD LUCK!! I hope you get the MS-8 working for you!


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

I'm was wondering how your horns were. I've got a question and forgive me if its been asked and answered. Can you turn off TA to the horns and allow them to play natural while keeping the mid TAed? I had this issue in my CRX with horns and my ES system but once I did that it was fixed. HOWEVER, when I put domes in the car it was better in area's and worse in others. I'm just wondering if you can zero out distance to them with that MS8?

After thinking about this a bit more, what you discribe is EXACTLY what I went through with the same but older version horn. Do you have any passive xovers laying around, or caps? If so, use a Y rca on your front left and right going into the MS8. Hook one end back to the MS8 for your mid and midbass drivers then disconnect the input on your tweeter amp and the other Y to it. Just see what happens. Simple exp that should tell you TONS. that is unless you already did or know this.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

mattyjman said:


> and then a couple shots of the finished set up
> 
> all that's left for the back to build a panel spanning the width of the truck with the raised JBL lettering, and then filling the open spaces with some oem panels that I need to source.
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> ...


Thank you for the review. I have a horn setup too but am not planning to use the center channel. 
I know that the center channel plays quieter than the Left and Right front speakers - but it seems that it tames the horns too much. 
I would try the Beyma Coax you have. I'm sure you'll get the dynamics back and still keep the stage  

Kelvin


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Matt,

I know it's not the horns' fault, but I'm pretty set on using the MS-8. The whole dynamics thing is what interests me in the horns. My setup would be very similar to Mikey's, with horns, 10" Faital Pro midbass, & 15" AE IB subs.

I'll PM Mike & see if I can get some info, or if you wouldn't mind sending me a PM telling me more in depth what his issues were that'd be great.


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

Another MS-8/horn user here. Great install, very similar to mine. 

We need to ask Andy for multiple tunes, one specificaly geared toward HLCD's, (eg. Dynamic tune). 

In all seriousness, the MS-8 does work extremely well for it's intended purposes, I'm looking forward to hearing what other HLCD users come up with.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> I'm was wondering how your horns were. I've got a question and forgive me if its been asked and answered. Can you turn off TA to the horns and allow them to play natural while keeping the mid TAed? I had this issue in my CRX with horns and my ES system but once I did that it was fixed. HOWEVER, when I put domes in the car it was better in area's and worse in others. I'm just wondering if you can zero out distance to them with that MS8?
> 
> After thinking about this a bit more, what you discribe is EXACTLY what I went through with the same but older version horn. Do you have any passive xovers laying around, or caps? If so, use a Y rca on your front left and right going into the MS8. Hook one end back to the MS8 for your mid and midbass drivers then disconnect the input on your tweeter amp and the other Y to it. Just see what happens. Simple exp that should tell you TONS. that is unless you already did or know this.


TA is not separable from the autotune. Also if I ran the horns out of the ms8, it would kind of defeat the purpose of the processor itself, as it also contains the eq. I like where your head is at, but in this case, unless I'm misunderstanding, it's not going to work. 



subwoofery said:


> Thank you for the review. I have a horn setup too but am not planning to use the center channel.
> I know that the center channel plays quieter than the Left and Right front speakers - but it seems that it tames the horns too much.
> I would try the Beyma Coax you have. I'm sure you'll get the dynamics back and still keep the stage
> 
> Kelvin


The center channel CAN play quieter, but in my initial setup, it was on par with everything else. I doubt the ability to turn it down too much without losing the dead center information coming from the soundtrack. I have turned it down a bit, but need to play with it more. Consequently, i need a new 2032 button battery, as the second replacement for the remote is already dead.  

I think the beyma is the right choice in this situation, but steered away from it because of it's depth. I need to get a passive crossover built for it before i can throw it in and try it, so it's at least a few weeks out. 

One thing that I was thinking about was the initial matching of the levels. I think Andy mentioned that the MS8 will attenuate before upping volume for a particular driver to match, so if I set the center with an initial level higher than the horns, then it would bring it down to match the horns, as opposed to turning the horns down to match the center? worth a shot at least. :worried:

(for what it's worth, I would try the center.... I ran the horns before and after the center, and the stage is SOOOO much better with it in place. -- only problem is finding a driver suitable for it)



fish said:


> Matt,
> 
> I know it's not the horns' fault, but I'm pretty set on using the MS-8. The whole dynamics thing is what interests me in the horns. My setup would be very similar to Mikey's, with horns, 10" Faital Pro midbass, & 15" AE IB subs.
> 
> I'll PM Mike & see if I can get some info, or if you wouldn't mind sending me a PM telling me more in depth what his issues were that'd be great.


I'll shoot you a PM later tonight. I can't help but assume that there is nothing about the MS8 that doesn't like horns, or high efficiency drivers. There must be a certain way to do the setup to get everything to mate evenly. My wife is pretty much determined to stick me with the MS8, so if thta's the case, I'll be trying to get every last trick to get this puppy singing.



SQram said:


> Another MS-8/horn user here. Great install, very similar to mine.
> 
> We need to ask Andy for multiple tunes, one specificaly geared toward HLCD's, (eg. Dynamic tune).
> 
> In all seriousness, the MS-8 does work extremely well for it's intended purposes, I'm looking forward to hearing what other HLCD users come up with.



As I said in the above reply, I don't think the MS8 has a need for a HLCD setting. It's gotta be in how we are setting this up. 


______________________________________________________________


So, after more playing and more thinking, I believe I am coming up with a few things to try to help this out. 

Midbass -- Turn the gains of the subs almost all the way down and with a lower crossover point. The MS8 may try to leverage more of the midbass drivers to get the levels it needs from the lower octaves. Once set up is complete, utilize the "sub" adjustment to increase the lower midbass, and then adjust the gains of the sub amp to a suitable level. I think this method has some promise to helping the "up front" bass problem, as well as the nearly non existent midbass.

Dynamics -- I think the center channel driver is clearly the culprit here. As the volume increases, the horns start to sound better, but the center starts to sound strained. I don't think it simply has the efficiency it needs to keep up, even with a bridged channel of the px300.4 on it (350 watts). On the level set up before calibration, I intend on simply over amplifying the center, over the center, to see if it can match the proper levels of the horns. 

Subbass -- I think the problem could be solved by the "fix" for the midbass. 

Note- I also have some engine whine, which is prevelent in the calibration, so this could be causing a problem as well. I will run a different power and ground connection to the ms8 that should solve the ground loop

I'll have some limited time later today to experiment with the above ideas. If anyone else has any other possible suggestions, please... I'm all ears.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

mattyjman said:


> Note- I also have some engine whine, which is prevelent in the calibration, so this could be causing a problem as well. I will run a different power and ground connection to the ms8 that should solve the ground loop
> 
> I'll have some limited time later today to experiment with the above ideas. If anyone else has any other possible suggestions, please... I'm all ears.


*Maybe this will help it did for a few friends of mine that ran many amps.*

1. Run the system power cable and RCA cables on opposite sides of each other

I usually run the power cable on whichever side of the car it comes in from the firewall. Then I run the RCA cables on the other side of the car. The reason for this is that as electrical current passes down a power wire, it creates an electromagnetic field which can easily be induced into an audio signal cable. This field can induce noise which will be prevalent in a sound system. Even a twisted pair of signal cables, which typically reduce their own generated noise, can be a receiver for other EMF induced noise.

Twisted pair signal cables are designed with two conductor wires, one for positive and one for negative, of equal conductor size. They are tightly wrapped around each other. The current flows down the positive conductor and returns with the negative conductor. There is an electromagnetic field present on the positive and negative wires. But, due to the fact that the current is flowing in opposite directions, it tends to cancel itself out and minimize the noise inducing properties. However, this type of twisted design does not prevent radiated EMF noise from other power cables from entering into the RCA cable.

Thus, your best bet is to keep all of your RCA cables, including twisted cables, separate from the power cable to prevent system noise.

2. Buy shielded RCA cables

Cars are full of electronics – air conditioners, hazards, blinkers, gauges, ignitions, and so forth. All of these have wiring with electrical current flowing through them. It’s safe to say that all of these electronics produce noise from their electromagnetic field.

The head unit in a car will almost always be located in the dash, which is where all of these other electronics are located. So inevitably, when you hook up the RCA cables to the head unit, they pass through the noise field of the other electronics.

To reduce this problem, buy shielded RCA cables. Don’t be fooled by the imposters though. True shielded cables have a copper or aluminum foil or braid that covers both conductors inside of the cable jacket. The purpose of the shielding is to protect the EMF from getting into the cable conductors. It also gives this energy somewhere else to go and acts as a grounding point, directing the unwanted currents away from the system and reducing noise.

3. Design your audio system and car wiring to minimize ground loop problems

Ground loops occur when you have multiple audio ground points in a car, and they can ultimately cause noise in a car audio system. To explain this further, we must first look at what a ground point is used for. A car sits on four rubber tires and because of this the vehicle and the metal of the car are not grounded. A big misconception is that the metal of the car is a ground point.

The metal of the car chassis is only ground due to the fact that the battery minus terminal is giving it ground. If you remove the negative wire off of the battery post, it will disable all of the electronics inside the car. The current in a car’s electrical system starts at the positive battery post. The current then travels through the car and returns to the negative post to complete the circuit. The auto manufactures run a wire from the negative post of the battery to the metal chassis or frame and then connect various wires inside the car to the frame at different points. In this process, the frame of the car is being utilized as on giant ground conductor. This is an okay process for small electronics such as gauges and power seats, but car audio amplifiers gulp large amounts of current from the electrical system and need to return large amounts of current to the battery.

If your amplifiers and head unit are connected to different ground points on the car’s frame and are connected together with an RCA cable, then you will have a voltage differential between the two due to resistance differential on the audio ground wires.

Possible solutions to this problem:

Design your system where you can connect all of your electronics to the same ground point in the vehicle.
Make sure the head unit is not touching metal and is connected to the same ground point as the amplifiers.
Use a large AWG ground wire for the head unit to minimize resistance for current going back to where the amplifier grounds are located.
Make sure that the RCA ground (shield) is connected to the grounded chassis of the radio in the dash.
Connect the EQ and crossover components to the same ground as the amplifiers.

4. Upgrade the ground wires on your battery to the largest AWG (gauge) available

In most systems, running a large power cable back to the amplifiers is a sure way to deliver the current that they will need to supply large power to a system. A common mistake is to not upgrade the battery negative wiring that goes from the battery minus terminal to the car chassis. Most car chassis are made of steel, which is not the best conductor of electricity, so you must add as much ground return current-carrying ability as possible by upgrading to larger wiring to the chassis.

5. Do not overdesign your system and put enormous strain on your alternator

Adding secondary batteries are great for allowing the audio system to run longer with the car off, but as you add batteries, the workload is intensified for the alternator. If you add batteries, you must upgrade the charging capability of the alternator or you will run the risk of adding system noise.

Most car alternators supply 80 amps or less to the battery to recharge it and this is not enough if you have more than one battery. If the alternator is abused, the diode bridge inside can fail and can induce noise into the system.

6. Tidbits and other rules of thumb for noise reduction

-The main system ground cannot be loose. Always bolt it securely to a thick piece of steel on the car frame.
-Before connecting the ground, make sure all of the paint and sound dampening material has been removed from it completely so that it is bare metal.
-Do not ever use a screw as a ground connection point. I prefer a copper or brass bolt.
-Keep the ground wires as short as possible to minimize resistance and prevent a voltage drop between components.
-Make sure the speaker wires are not nicked or cut in any way, as this can cause a second audio ground point.
-Cover passive crossovers with aluminum foil shielding to prevent the coils inside from absorbing noise.
-Do not use a ground loop isolator, always try to rectify the noise problem by some of the methods in this article.
-Check your speaker mounting positions to make sure that the speaker terminals are not touching metal in the door or kick panel. Cover the metal with adhesive rubber or gasket material.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

DAT said:


> *Maybe this will help it did for a few friends of mine that ran many amps.*
> 
> 1. Run the system power cable and RCA cables on opposite sides of each other
> 
> I usually run the power ....




Thanks for this. While I was hoping for some different tuning tricks with the MS8, this also answers a few big questions I was going to ask in a different thread about grounding and noise loops. I think the biggest take away here, that will help me, is power and ground from all the same source. The HU and MS8 share power and ground, and the amps get power and ground from the battery. Is this always the case for getting rid of ground noise? 

I also have my fans ground running to the amps ground. Could this be causing some of the wine, since it's not an "audio" component and should it maybe share a chassis ground instead?


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

I think it more depends on the car and install. I've run them like your describing with no issues. I've also run them to a distro block which had a single point ground, in all its the same. I would move it just because for the most part it is easy to try before tearing deep into your system. I have never run a ground from the battery all the way to the back of the vehicle, but have read where this is pretty common here. 

Not too long ago a board member here had some pretty bad issues with noise. He never posted the solve but he did PM me after we narrowed it down to passives and where they were mounted. I hoped he would update his thread so that his progression may help others. NOISE can be a real PIA but its just boils down to signal and where its getting into your system. 

I'll try and find the above thread.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...9961-plea-gods-alt-whine-troubleshooting.html


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

okay, i wanted to throw out a semi-official review from myself. It's easy to jump to conclusions and perhaps that's what I did when I wrote my first impressions. They were, to say the least, dismal. However, that is proceeding on the assumption that everything was set up correctly. Most of it was. (i still don't have that "horn" sound, but we'll come back to that later...)

So, throughout this last week, I have spent quite a bit of time trying to perfect what I have before I jump ship. Earlier this week, after a few tries with the calibration, I happened upon an initial tune that surprised me. It really demonstrated, like black and white, how bad the first tune was. What changed? (I'm not sure if any of this actually impacted the results of if the ms8 is sporadic in its results) Before calibration, after all the level matching of the speakers, I turned the gains on the center channel noticeably higher than the rest of the front speakers. The thought here was if the MS8 attenuates before amplifies, then it should bring the center level volume down to the horns. I also set the sub gains to almost a minimum. I could barely here the test tones before calibration. 

This time, for calibration, I turned the car off. Went through the calibration and started auditioning. Wow. Night and Day. The sub integration was better, and sub bass seemed effortless. The front stage didn't have as much of a "coming through a tube" sound to it. And the center was definitely anchored where it was supposed to be. The horns seemed to have more output but still lacked the sound of horns. Being quite pleased this time (not satisfied though) I left this last calibration alone. Throughout the week, I had two other MSS members audition the set up, and both were pleasantly surprised with the staging results from the tune but both noted a "tinny" sound from the horns, and a narrower stage than it should be. I also had another one of my friends, not a discerning listener or enthusiast, comment on how something was missing, maybe a bit more top end. 

With these comments I thought about how to go about fixing them with the MS8 without replacing it. I played around quite a bit with the eq, and ended up boosting a few of the last frequencies on the graphic eq, no more than 2db, and a gradual slope up. This helped add more "oomph" to the higher areas and brought back an area that honestly I didn't even realize I was missing. I also played a bit with the different levels and found that by drastically cutting the center volume, I both opened up the width of the stage and also woke up the horns a bit more. It seemed as though when I lower the center volume, that the ms8 equally turns up the left and right sides to compensate for the missing information? I'm not too sure on that one, but the stage really sounds excellent, and the top end of the spectrum doesn't actually sound that bad. 

So, today I put it through the ringer, and made a playlist of some of my favorite songs, to compare critically against my home monitors. 










There is about 100 songs total, and I, of course, wasn't able to get through all of them. But I must say, that a little time spent trying to adjust the MS8 has made this system come a long way. 

--The midbass is quite a bit stronger now, and the integration between them and the subs is actually pretty decent. It could be stronger, and I think changes in the crossover frequencies should help. 

-- The center has now disappeared as a commanding center, and now feels more like a virtual center, much like it should sound with a standard two way in a listening room. 

-- There is no rainbow of stage, sounds from the left and right are just as high as the center, over the dash and probably about half way to the headliner. 

-- The horns do sound better, but don't quite have that "brash" sound that one would expect. It feels as if I have some very efficient or capable tweeters and everything gets quite loud (i'm still undecided on how I feel about this one)

-- The rears I faded down a bit so there is less ambient sound, and I think it sounds just right. When people referenced "rear fill" I didn't know that it could add to the stage like it does now. 

-- The subs absolutely slam.  Incredibly musical and play surprisingly low for 10's... This is a keeper set up for sure. I won't be changing out these subs any time soon

-- The level control on the MS8 is at almost full volume. I think this helps in giving the amps some room to breathe. 

Gripes: I'm not sure what this is, but at times, if there is a lot of information in the soundtrack, the system seems to get overwhelmed. (think triple bass, tons of distortion). I think this is a midbass integration issue, and will continue to work on this.

-- The horns don't sound like horns, but high volume tweeters. I'm not sure if this bothers me as it all sounds very good, and gets extremely loud. But, they are able to keep their composure and don't seem to display any breakup or any of the typical signs of stress for small format tweets. 

So, overall, I'm quite happy about this. I've gone from being completely depressed to almost satisfied. I would say that I am about 9/10 happy, with the only real problem being the horns. I wonder if I replaced them and went with a high power tweets like the morel et338's chad suggested in another thread if I could improve the clarity and keep the volume while improving leg space. I'm not sure what the MS8 is doing with the horns but it's weird. Despite this, I have it a manageable compromise now. 

Is it worth going to a P01 or p99rs or a dsp6, etc... I'm not sure. I will undoubtedly be giving up some of the benefits of the MS8 (centers and rears) which I absolutely love, all for the benefit of getting the "horn" sound back. What's to say that if I make a move like that, that I won't be 8/10 or 9/10 satisfied with that solution, instead of 100% satisfied. So, I'm at a crossroads. 

One thing is for sure though, that you MUST use a center and rears to gain all the advantages of the MS8. 

Any thoughts, criticisms, suggestions, etc?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

mattyjman said:


> okay, i wanted to throw out a semi-official review from myself. It's easy to jump to conclusions and perhaps that's what I did when I wrote my first impressions. They were, to say the least, dismal. However, that is proceeding on the assumption that everything was set up correctly. Most of it was. (i still don't have that "horn" sound, but we'll come back to that later...)
> 
> So, throughout this last week, I have spent quite a bit of time trying to perfect what I have before I jump ship. Earlier this week, after a few tries with the calibration, I happened upon an initial tune that surprised me. It really demonstrated, like black and white, how bad the first tune was. What changed? (I'm not sure if any of this actually impacted the results of if the ms8 is sporadic in its results) Before calibration, after all the level matching of the speakers, I turned the gains on the center channel noticeably higher than the rest of the front speakers. The thought here was if the MS8 attenuates before amplifies, then it should bring the center level volume down to the horns. I also set the sub gains to almost a minimum. I could barely here the test tones before calibration.
> 
> ...


Excellent review!

Our experiences with the MS-8 are very similar. Multiple tune and calibration sessions have led to continuous improvements. I initially wanted to return the MS, but I'm happy with the possibilities.

I wish the manual for the MS was more thorough. It leaves out some REALLY important information that are vital to getting things right. Also, as I stated on MSS, I think many people were led to believe (intentionally?) that they could install this unit and win SQ championships. There's a learning curve, but not difficult once the legwork is put in.

I wish I were in AZ to hear it. Until then, enjoy your set up. Also, look into the BG Neo 8 as a possible replacement for your horns.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

Take a close look... Now you see it... 











Now you don't!










Okay, so I started the day with an intent to install my newish P01, take out my unneeded amp (rears and centers) address some noise issues, and hopefully, end with a smile on my face. 

Started about 7AM working on creating my RCA bundle. I might be slow, I don't know. It took me to about 9AM to finish. I had to desolder 16 rca's and resolder 16 rca's with longer lengths. I used Gepco and Neutrik connectors. Absolute PITA, but I didn't want to continue using the el-cheapo Monster brand rca's that i had been using (possible area of noise introduction -- they were about $9/5meter on a close out -- carried a "remote" wire in the same jacket for ease of installation I guess). 

This is what I ended up with... 8 Nice RCA's... I don't have a label maker and clear shrink, so i used thin cut red shrink on the exterior of the rca's and wrote my 8 channel markers on them. Simple, but more effective than the painters tape I used before. 










So, in an effort to pull the RCA's, remove the MS8 and install the P01 (most would think a 1 or 2 hour job) after about 1 hour, I had the car in pieces yet again.




























The MS8 was under the rear seat, so that necessitated the removal of that... and then the rca's i decided to run down the center of the car, to further remove them from the power wires. in fact, i actually found that when I ran the MS8 rca's that I had run them right over where the fuel pump electronics where, so i thought that might be contributing to the noise. 

After I ran the rca's, new remote wire, and pulled the other amp, I was able to put everything back together. I grabbed a few shots of what this looks like without the sub. (remember, modular design to still be utilitarian if needed)




























and some shots of the deck in it's new home ...










So... after all that (read: all day) I was able to turn this sucker on, and what do you know. Engine Noise. Still. So more trouble shooting ahead. I have one noise that squaks a bit when the doors and interior light comes on. That should be an easy fix by addressing the dimmer wire on the factory harness. 

The rca's are ruled out of the equation as they are new and run in different location. I also ran same rca's into different amps, and was able to determine that all amps are outputing noise .. so it must be either a grounding issue, or something with the harness and deck. I was able to determine that the fans were causing some of the noise, and unplugged them for the time being (i'll need to address that soon). 

So after all is said and done, the engine noise and whine is exactly the same as before. It's beyond liveable. Just barely. I need some tips on what to do next. 

Not to be dissuaded from my goal today, however, I ran the auto eq, and found that the P01 seems to think that the horns are super tweeters, the 2119's have extended range, and the subs aren't supposed to play audibly. Well... that's just not gonna fly. 

I drove to the Home Depot parking lot to do some tuning, and after about 30 minutes playing with the Japanese menus, I have it to where things are livable for now. Horns are down to 1000hz, mids from 200 to 1000, and Midbass from 80 to 200, all on 24 db slopes for now. The majority of frequencies have an extreme right side bias, while some vocals seem to be a bit more centered. It's definitely not as polished, technically, as the ms8. 

But WOW -- the MS8 was a big fat dud. I drove down some surface streets after getting things where they could be in a 30 minute tune, but wow. A 10 on the excitement level. The midbass is now THERE. It's so there that there is no problem whatsoever with "upfront bass". My bass and midbass blend now perfectly with so much impact it's "tickle me" fun. The horns sound fantastic, and some quick listening to Evanesence sent chills down my back. ( I think her voice is absolutely stunning ) Eagles, Dire Straits, Deftones, U2, all had the excitement and clarity that they should have. I'm so glad I ditched the MS8, but I hope it has better luck with my wife's corolla.


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## Diego (Dec 14, 2010)

Sorry for my English but im from mexico, I used to have the same problem than you, my system is: 

Head unit: Pioneer P80RS
Tweeter: Rainbow (two pairs)
Tweeter amp: ARC Audio 4200SE (2 channels)
Mids: Bose 802 (4.5"' four speakers)
Mids amp: Arc Audio 4200 (2 cahnnels)
Mid bass: JL audio ZR800
Mid amp: ARC Audio 2300SE
SUB: 2 JL w6 12
SUB amp: JL Slash 1000.1
Audiocontrol Matrix

Everything is set with active crossovers 

I also have the alternator wine in my fj crusier, I made all the test you can ever imagine to eliminate the noise and i found out that the noise is induse to the head unit by the rear cables of the car. 

the problem was solve by installing a Audiocontrol matrix, now it is totally clean, no noise at all. 

I use the Matrix for the tweeters, mids and mid bass, i leaft the bass directly from the head unit. 

PROBLEM SOLVE and the gains on your amps will be all the way down give you much more clarity on you vocals.

I hope it helps you, it did it for me.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

when will the insanity stop ?


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

Impressive!

*Love the FJ*

D.


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## jlh2003 (Dec 14, 2010)

sweet build bro!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thanks for the props guys... since the po1 things have sounded really good, but i got some changes coming over the holidays... stay tuned


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## ChiTownSQ (Apr 7, 2008)

Im my fjc I had to eliminate noise. I ran the power wire on the outside of the cabin along the frame rails and the rest of the cables inside the truck. This eliminated all of my noise issues that I faced on my initial start up after my last build. There are gromits in the floor to bring the power wire up from the bottom. Worked flawlessly. I also put a larger ground wire on the battery. That could have helped it to. Did both at the same time.


Awesome build! Im taking notes!


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

thanks for the tip... i could have used it a few months ago. turns out that the truck is back to stock now, and i'm prepping it for trade in so i can get a new car. it was fun while it lasted but i have enough gripes about this car that i thought it was time to trade in


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

So what kind of cables and wires did you run?


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

incredible gear! mmm thats aweseome!


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

What is the model for the RCA connectors and the wiring that you used for your RCA. I am tired between creating my own or going with the ones at the link below.

Give me your thoughts about this.

Knukonceptz product detail for KRYSTAL KABLE 2 CHANNEL 6M TWISTED PAIR RCA CABLE

Thanks


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

gepco wire with neutrik connectors... there is a thread on here in the tutorial section on this... check it out


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Can you give me the model numbers of the ones you used...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i'm sorry it's been a while... i don't recall


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## greywarden (Jan 6, 2011)

Wow, we basically listen to the same exact music... lol. Nice install, I want to use pro drivers, as well in mine - one day


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