# EQ Tips While I learn to tune.



## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

I'm in my first year of competition and what I used to think sounded good has been an illusion. My scores reflect this. I have however managed to do a jump of 12.5 points in 3 events. I've let quite a few have a listen to the truck but very rarely has anyone suggest where I needed improvement or how to go about it. I've gotten a little feedback along the way. "Pulls a little to the right", "Center walks around", "Lower 200k and drop the sub 2db". This is what I wanted to hear from those that have had a listen. If I actually asked for someone to have a listen that means I was asking for some guidance. Those that I did ask and had nothing to say other than "it sounds pretty good" or had nothing to say have for the most part been erased from my list of those I THOUGHT were approachable and would be of help. I found some to be rather arrogant! This doesn't apply to everyone that didn't have input. Just those I had actually asked for help. I refuse to just turn my truck over to someone and let them tune it for me since I want to know how to tune properly. I don't want to be just the driver/owner of a car/truck that competes.

When I met Mic while I was up in PA he was nice enough to make an attempt at some help in my tune and I am greatly appreciative of his efforts. He did do a little RTA and I saved the settings in my notebook. Thanks for the effort Mic and yes I understand the frustration of trying to work with a P99. He was in the middle of his install, it was raining and I have a HU that isn't very user friendly at first. He's been nice enough to offer any suggestions and answer questions I might have. Thanks Mic!

Howard has been a great support and we talk pretty regular. Howard is one of the few that have given me some feedback on my tune. We've discussed a few issues and methods and through trial and error I've gained a few points in the lanes. We both run simular drivers making it easier to understand what happens when changes are made. Thanks for the support Howard!

Mark has been a great help with many hours on the phone. He is the designer of the drivers and runs the same in his car. I have to say thanks to Mark for taking the time to listen to my concerns and frustrations. Most conversations are had while he is trying to resolve his own issues and is working on the car as we talk. Car breaks down, system breaks down, system changes........He hasn't been able to compete with the same system twice so far this year. Thanks Mark!

I finally met Matt R at The Vinny. Matt is a very approachable guy and called me off to the side after the show to have a listen to the truck. He took the time to show me a few tips in tuning. I think the most helpful was being able to use 1/3 octave pink noise to center my stage by adjusting each frequency on the EQ one band at a time by cutting left and boosting right (vise versa if needed) to bring each to center. I never used the 1/3 octave noise. I always just listened to the music and tried to pick what needed to move where. Thanks Matt!

I'll make it to finals and I'll compete. I'll more than likely have my ass handed to me and I'm ok with that. I'm in the lanes to be judged and to learn from my scores and the judges input. Most of all I want to listen to cars/trucks that score good to get a better idea of what I need to listen for in my own tune. I'm there to meet other competitors and talk, listen to advice and learn. I've read most all the tutorials here and on other forums and combined them to help me learn how to tune. I found this EQ tip list on the MECA forums and thought I would pass it along.


Using the Equalizer 
1. If it sounds muddy, cut some at 250Hz. 
2. If it sounds honky, cut some at 500Hz. 
3. Cut if you’re trying to make things sound better. 
4. Boost if you’re trying to make things sound different. 
5. You can’t boost something that’s not there in the first place. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Instrument & Magic Frequencies 
*Bass Guitar* 
Bottom at 50 - 80Hz; attack at 700Hz; snap at 2.5kHz 
*Kick Drum* 
Bottom at 80 - 100HZ; hollowness at 400Hz; point at 3 - 5kHz 
*Snare* 
Fatness at 120 - 240Hz; boing at 900Hz; crispness at 5kHz; snap at 10kHz 
*Toms* 
Fullness at 240 - 500Hz; attack at 5 - 7kHz 
*Floor Tom *
Fullness at 80 - 120Hz; attack at 5kHz 
*Conga* 
Ring at 200Hz; slap at 5kHz 
*Hi Hat & Cymbals* 
Clang at 200Hz; sparkle at 8 - 10kHz 
*Electric Guitar* 
Fullness at 240 - 500Hz; presence at 1.5 - 2kHz; reduce 1kHz for 4 X 12 cabinet sound 
*Acoustic Guitar* 
Fullness at 80Hz; body at 240Hz; presence at 2 - 5kHz 
*Organ* 
Fullness at 80Hz; body at 240Hz; presence at 2 - 5kHz 
*Piano* 
Fullness at 80Hz;presence at 2.5 - 5kHz; honky-tonk at 2.5kHz 
*Horns* 
Fullness at 120 - 240Hz; piercing at 5kHz 
*Voice* 
Fullness at 120Hz; boominess at 240Hz; presence at 5kHz; sibilance at 5 kHz; air at 10 - 15kHz 
*Strings* 
Fullness at 240Hz; scratchiness at 7 - 10kHz 


Hope this helps someone 

Chuck


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Neat to categorize the effects. Ultimately it's about you being happy with the sound.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

check the link in my sig. It's great for this.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

It depends on your EQ but one thing to remember is that we are WAY more sensitive to a boost than a cut. and I prefer cut only then make-up gain.

sooooo

Find what you think is bugging you then give it a SLIGHT boost quickly and back down, if you don't go "yep that's it" then move around a bit. One thing I have noticed is that many beginners will grab down damn near exactly one octave  When you find it, cut SLIGHTLY and re-evaluate.... Do not dig yourself into a hole.

Looking at a damn chart and taking pot-shots is more frustrating than just learning it.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Subscribed!!!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

tool: Simple Feedback Trainer


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I do a couple things when I hear a problem spot I can't find.

One is to grab the RTA and watch it to see if it shows the problem. I listen to a song, get to about the part where the problem is, watch the RTA and see if I can find where it jumps. The problem is the harmonics (and if it's like any other real music, the fact that there is other stuff going on in the song), but if you have an idea of the passband to look in, you can narrow it down. This works great with something like a computer based RTA (trueRTA) and fast response. 

Second, if I have an idea of where it is, but more focused than I do for the above (ie: I know it's between 300-500hz rather than 200-5000hz), I grab EQ bands and just drop/boost them off the map. I go through one by one until I hear a change. When I hear something that affects the problem, I flatten it. Then I do what Chad says above: start tweaking it a small bit. 


I swear, though, I don't touch the EQ until I'm very certain the crossovers/slopes/phase/ta are set up as well as I can. I still revisit these things after making EQ adjustments just to make sure nothing got wonky during the EQ adjustments. All the difference in the world can be made by some simple phase changes or level changes. 


The biggest problem I notice in cars is the resonance from about 125-300hz. This band usually requires cutting, and sometimes severe cutting. Which gets in to this...
Additionally, I'd really like to encourage people to *tune with their ears rather than their eyes*. 
A FINE example of this is when level matching. Let's say you set your gains arbitrarily on a big amp (100x4 or so) and you don't level match the L/R sides. Most people automatically knock down the left side since it's closest to them, but what if your amp gains have already compensated for this somewhat, in a roundabout way? I did this this weekend with my gains; just set the gains somewhat arbitrarily in a rush and it happened to be that the right side was already louder than the left when I started to tune because of this, so I didn't have to level adjust anything on the right. Instead, I had knock down the left side a half dB or so. 
I know a lot of people try to use logic to tune "Well, if I'm this far from this speaker, then this needs to be done" or the like. But, truth be told, the car wreaks HAVOC on our systems. I leave the logic outside my door, to an extent, when I get in to tune. Use your ears... don't pay attention to the numbers on the screen because that will eff you up.

Just saying. YMMV.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

bikinpunk said:


> I do a couple things when I hear a problem spot I can't find.
> 
> One is to grab the RTA and watch it to see if it shows the problem. I listen to a song, get to about the part where the problem is, watch the RTA and see if I can find where it jumps. The problem is the harmonics (and if it's like any other real music, the fact that there is other stuff going on in the song), but if you have an idea of the passband to look in, you can narrow it down. This works great with something like a computer based RTA (trueRTA) and fast response.
> 
> ...


Let me start by saying I'm very low tech at this point due to budget constraints. 

I have no TA and a decent amount of cross over capability. I have a 7 band graphic EQ on my HU and a an adjustable bass boost on the amp that has 0-12 db knob and a 30-1k knob (I treat that as a single band parametric). I also have an frequency analyzer app on my I-phone (don't laugh at me, I only use it to judge how flat my in cabin response is). I recently used it and discovered that I had a dip in the 125-250hz range so I boosted it on the eq. then the test showed a damn near flat response. Most music sound great but in some music (rock mostly) my lower mid bass gets muddy and I'm getting some bad resonances around that area. 

Should i cut it back out on the eq even if that means I'll have dip in response aroun that frequency? I think I would be happy with the way it sounds better but if there is another way to address this advice would be appreciated. 

I don't like the way my subs sound if I run them over 80 hz and my comps sound ok running below 100 hz but when the subs are one they don't seem to blend well, even if I switch the polarity of the subs. 

It sounds good if run my comps down to 125hz and the subs up to 80hz. But I don't like have that big of a gap cause I know I'm missing something.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Use shallow xover points between the sub and midbass and you will be fine. Say cross your sub at 80hz @12db and your mids at [email protected]


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

chefhow said:


> Use shallow xover points between the sub and midbass and you will be fine. Say cross your sub at 80hz @12db and your mids at [email protected]


That's about how it is now. 

I was asking more in reference to my EQ settings.


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> I do a couple things when I hear a problem spot I can't find.
> 
> One is to grab the RTA and watch it to see if it shows the problem. I listen to a song, get to about the part where the problem is, watch the RTA and see if I can find where it jumps. The problem is the harmonics (and if it's like any other real music, the fact that there is other stuff going on in the song), but if you have an idea of the passband to look in, you can narrow it down. This works great with something like a computer based RTA (trueRTA) and fast response.
> 
> ...


Thanks Erin this is the shyt I'm looking for from fellow members/friends/tuners. I'm well aware of this advice but you chiming in is what this is all about. Direction in where to turn/adjust is what its all about. Thats where experience counts. I'm sorry we didn't get to spend some time together moving some setting around to see what would happen. Maybe next time? I have to say I am oh so sorry I let time slip away and didn't get to have a listen to your ride. I let time slip away and did truely want to demo your car. I'm sorry if it looked like I was ignoring the invite. As a matter of fact I didn't listen to a single system while I was there due to all the BSing with everyone and time I spent with Matt. AND I knew pics were needed and I tried to do what I could with my phone since I left my camera at home. Maybe we can plan a small GTG 1/2 way for anybody wanting to gtg. Find a good place/motel/hotel and make a day and night of it.

Chuck


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

chefhow said:


> Use shallow xover points between the sub and midbass and you will be fine. Say cross your sub at 80hz @12db and your mids at [email protected]


Great advice Howard. Then let the EQ make up the difference.

Chuck


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## Dzaazter (Apr 28, 2011)

Subscribed!!! I've had my system in for a few weeks now. Just recently started trying to adjust my tune too. It's been frustrating yet gratifying at the same time. My system sounds way different than when I first started. Learn something new every day. Even friends that listen to it ask if I switched out components cause the change is so dramatic. I'm determined to get this tuning thing down, not on an expert level but good enough to where I can be happy with myself and help others out too. Thanks for all the advice guys.


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

Great thread Chuck. I'm in for the GTG depending on the date.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

stereo_luver said:


> I think the most helpful was being able to use 1/3 octave pink noise to center my stage by adjusting each frequency on the EQ one band at a time by cutting left and boosting right (vise versa if needed) to bring each to center. I never used the 1/3 octave noise. I always just listened to the music and tried to pick what needed to move where. Thanks Matt!


That is spot on. Balance for L/R and set it so that's its about even +/- 2-3db across the 10 octaves. This is a starting point. Get the TA set. Measure the distance to each driver from the tip of your nose and enter those values. Again, this is another starting point. Play around with adding equal delay to all drivers. 

When you're tuning sometimes its better working with one set of drivers at a time, only the mids, only the tweets etc. Get a good reference point. Grab some cd's that you are very familiar with and listen to them through a good home 2ch setup. Shops that sell the stuff normally have demo rooms. Listen with your eyes closed and see what you hear. That will give you an idea of what you're shooting for. 

You will then have to scale everything down to fit in your car.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

the problem with pink noise/tones in higher frequency is that they have the tendency to jump around even with _slight_ movements. Comb filtering at its finest.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Let me start by saying I'm very low tech at this point due to budget constraints. 

I have no TA and a decent amount of cross over capability. I have a 7 band graphic EQ on my HU and a an adjustable bass boost on the amp that has 0-12 db knob and a 30-1k knob (I treat that as a single band parametric). I also have an frequency analyzer app on my I-phone (don't laugh at me, I only use it to judge how flat my in cabin response is). I recently used it and discovered that I had a dip in the 125-250hz range so I boosted it on the eq. then the test showed a damn near flat response. Most music sound great but in some music (rock mostly) my lower mid bass gets muddy and I'm getting some bad resonances around that area. 

Should i cut it back out on the eq even if that means I'll have dip in response aroun that frequency? I think I would be happy with the way it sounds better but if there is another way to address this advice would be appreciated.

Edit: sorry for the repost, I never got my question answered.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> the problem with pink noise/tones in higher frequency is that they have the tendency to jump around even with _slight_ movements. Comb filtering at its finest.


True they are pretty shabby after like 800-1khz, its all the reflections kicking in. But we are talking about getting started. When I used the tones I'd do it late at night, windows rolled down and a thick towel covering my dash. It gave me a good intro into balancing L/R.

Eventually you wind up doing most things by ear.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Yes, I understand. I'm just saying it's something to keep in mind when tuning. If you move the seat in between two sessions using this method, your results will probably be different above ~1khz (give or take).


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## funkalicious (Oct 8, 2007)

This is good stuff! Subscribed.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

This is some excellent advise.



bikinpunk said:


> Second, if I have an idea of where it is, but more focused than I do for the above (ie: I know it's between 300-500hz rather than 200-5000hz), I grab EQ bands and just drop/boost them off the map. I go through one by one until I hear a change. When I hear something that affects the problem, I flatten it. Then I do what Chad says above: start tweaking it a small bit.





bikinpunk said:


> I swear, though, I don't touch the EQ until I'm very certain the crossovers/slopes/phase/ta are set up as well as I can. I still revisit these things after making EQ adjustments just to make sure nothing got wonky during the EQ adjustments. All the difference in the world can be made by some simple phase changes or level changes.


^^^ you use all the tuning tools together. You could spend some time working on the eq and then need to visit the xover / slopes TA and vice versa. 



bikinpunk said:


> The biggest problem I notice in cars is the resonance from about 125-300hz. This band usually requires cutting, and sometimes severe cutting. Which gets in to this...


A lot of people will boost this range, but it normally needs to be cut. 



bikinpunk said:


> Additionally, I'd really like to encourage people to *tune with their ears rather than their eyes*.


That is the crux. You will never measure your way to great sound. You have to hear your way there. For me its very important to have a reference sound, what I'm working to wards recreating. I have to be intimately familiar with this sound. Next I need to evaluate what I have in the car to identify what all is wrong. I then use the tuning tools to try and hear my way closer. 



bikinpunk said:


> A FINE example of this is when level matching. Let's say you set your gains arbitrarily on a big amp (100x4 or so) and you don't level match the L/R sides. Most people automatically knock down the left side since it's closest to them, but what if your amp gains have already compensated for this somewhat, in a roundabout way? I did this this weekend with my gains; just set the gains somewhat arbitrarily in a rush and it happened to be that the right side was already louder than the left when I started to tune because of this, so I didn't have to level adjust anything on the right. Instead, I had knock down the left side a half dB or so.
> I know a lot of people try to use logic to tune "Well, if I'm this far from this speaker, then this needs to be done" or the like. But, truth be told, the car wreaks HAVOC on our systems. I leave the logic outside my door, to an extent, when I get in to tune. Use your ears... don't pay attention to the numbers on the screen because that will eff you up.
> 
> Just saying. YMMV.


Once you have settled your ears into listening and you're familiar with using the tools, tuning as a process is very instinctive.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Fricasseekid said:


> Let me start by saying I'm very low tech at this point due to budget constraints.
> 
> I have no TA and a decent amount of cross over capability. I have a 7 band graphic EQ on my HU and a an adjustable bass boost on the amp that has 0-12 db knob and a 30-1k knob (I treat that as a single band parametric). I also have an frequency analyzer app on my I-phone (don't laugh at me, I only use it to judge how flat my in cabin response is). I recently used it and discovered that I had a dip in the 125-250hz range so I boosted it on the eq. then the test showed a damn near flat response. Most music sound great but in some music (rock mostly) my lower mid bass gets muddy and I'm getting some bad resonances around that area.
> 
> ...


Try crossing your sub and mids around 60hz and use steep slopes. Cut a bit in the 100-300hz range.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

To clarify, what I mean by this:


> tune with their ears rather than their eyes.


is to not put so much faith in to the numbers you see on your DSP as you make adjustments. Just because you have something cut as much as -6dB, it doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong. It could very well be there's a need for that much cut. There are other examples I'm sure someone could come up with if they looked at their settings that may seem 'radical'.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

sqnut said:


> Try crossing your sub and mids around 60hz and use steep slopes. Cut a bit in the 100-300hz range.


Sounds reasonable...

What I'm not getting is it seems that the 100-300 hz band needs to be cut more often than not. Why would I need to cut that band if I already had to boost jut to show a show a flat response through those frequencies?

Is a flat response curve not the ultimate goal?


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

the problem is that what you measure isn't always what you hear. the dip could be due to overpowering subwoofer in respect to midwoofer levels. there could be the typical suckout in midbass here (but usually, it's due to comb filtering caused by console reflection and can't be eq'd back in effectively), your body may have an influence on the sound so when you add/remove yourself from the car during measurement, you get a different result, etc.

I've had something similar: the RTA shows a problem @ 80hz on the driver's side. I can RTA it back up a few dB but when I sit in the car and listen it sounds like _garbage_. Warble, warble, warble... When I set the bands back to flat the music sounds MUCH better.

Additionally, it seems rock music is mastered in a different manner than most other music. The bass guitar/kick drum combination makes it rough to get this genre of music to play well namely because of the music itself rather than the tune. You have a nice kick, but a nasty bass. I'm not saying everyone has the same results and certainly opinions will vary due to subjectivity, but these are the takeaways I've had with car audio.

My $.02.


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

bikinpunk said:


> the problem is that what you measure isn't always what you hear. the dip could be due to overpowering subwoofer in respect to midwoofer levels. there could be the typical suckout in midbass here (but usually, it's due to comb filtering caused by console reflection and can't be eq'd back in effectively), your body may have an influence on the sound so when you add/remove yourself from the car during measurement, you get a different result, etc.
> 
> I've had something similar: the RTA shows a problem @ 80hz on the driver's side. I can RTA it back up a few dB but when I sit in the car and listen it sounds like _garbage_. Warble, warble, warble... When I set the bands back to flat the music sounds MUCH better.
> 
> ...


So I should throw the response curve out the window go with what I like and worry no more?


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I wouldn't go that far.

I am saying to use your ears and your measurement gear together rather than one or the other singularly.

It's your car. You're the one who drives it.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Speaking about setting driver levels L and R, do most people end up cutting the driver side mid if mounted in door? Because I noticed that the passenger side sounded louder because it has an unobstructed path and is pointing more at the driver vs a solid 90 deg off axis and blocked by your legs. I cut it by 1 or 2 db to even out. Then with my widebands in the pillars, I left them equal since they are pointed toward the opposite listener (fairly on-axis). Just seeing what other people with similar setups are doing. Good discussion.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm one of those who believes you need to build the system as good as you can then cut frequencies to finalize the tuning. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of trial and effort to get to that "as good as you can" point.

I hate boosting any frequency more than 3 dB without having additional amplification to back it up. Maybe it's just a personal preference because in my mind 3 dB is enough to push any amplifier into it's clipping point. Think of it this way, if you are under powering a driver, would you want to boost any particular frequency that you can't hear more than 3 dB? Ponder that one and get back to me.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Chuck and Erin... 
When you started tuning with the p99, how was the base line setup after using auto TA and eq? Or did you forgo the auto and just do custom from the start?

If in fact you did start from the auto baseline, did you notice any deficiencies in the pioneers processing that need to be taken into account?


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

both the units I've used (yours and the one I just bought on ebay) came setup already for the left position, so I just zeroed them out and tweaked from there.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Thanks Erin, I'm not very experienced in tuning, so the auto will be my foundation.

I would have little to reference it against, but not terribly worried about it. No plans to compete, just want it to sound nice for me and be as accurate as I can. Lol


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

I just reset my system after making mods to my dash speakers. I had to auto TA/EQ to be able to manually adjust all the settings. I could have easily just gone and deleted (set to flat) my saved EQ settings but opted to just reset the unit and begin again. I have 3-4 weeks before my next event so I have plenty of time to do some tuning. I've discussed the need for auto tuning in the beginning of the P99's process for tuning in another thread. If the deck is reset to a clear factory fresh beginning. You must use the auto tune before you can adjust manually. I then throw away the auto tune and begin my own tuning.

Chuck


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Thanks Chuck.
I understand the need to run auto tune after a full reset, to get you to where you can do a custom tune.

Lol my problem is I don't have enough tuning skill to do a full on custom tune. More than likely, I would auto tune, then tweak that.

I was more curious how close, or acceptable the auto tune is... Will it get me close...
It seems you and Erin only use the auto tune as a stepping stone to get you to your custom tuning. If I had the ability I would prob do the same.


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

I don't even use it as a stepping stone. I completely do away with the auto tuned system. I then go back and set all my crossover points, slope, TA, driver gains, driver phase, EQ amd so on.

I and many I've talked to say that the P99 sets some fairly odd settings when auto tuned. Example: I ran a 3-way active plus subwoofer. My midbass was crossed from 63hz @ 12db slope up to 1.25kHz @ 12db. The midrange was from 1.25kHz @ 12db up to 6.3kHz @ 12db and the tweeter was from 6.3kHz @ 12db and on up. I hated this setting.

Chuck


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Those are strange settings... I can see why you nuked it for morbid. 

Well I gotta learn sometime... Lord knows plenty of tutorials and info on here. Thanks Chuck, as much of a pita as it's going to be, I'm really looking forward to it.


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

Just hangin' out, maybe I'll learn something... 

Bill


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Can't remember who posted a link to this, but I thought it could be useful. Goes along well with what Chuck has in his first post...










If the resolution of the pic is bad, here is the link to the site..

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

^

jcollin, that's Erin's(bikinpunk's) sig

Bill


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Lol really... Read him mention it, but hadn't looked at his Sig yet.. thanks Bill.

Somebody else posted that a while back, know it wasn't Erin though.

I saved it while back, thought it was pretty cool info.

Sorry for the redundancy then lol

One of the problems with using tapatalk... You don't see All the extra things like sigs.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I see how it is, Jeff! LOL!


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Lmao! Do I have to change my name to Jeff, to learn how to tune like you?!
Or does stealing your sig give me a free pass? Lol


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Crap! I had Jeff on the mind because I'm print out like 20 shipping labels and have you and Jeff. 

speaking of which... you'll get your tracking # tomorrow afternoon. I hope UPS cuts me a bulk discount. lol.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Lol, No worries, thanks man.
I put a little ditty under my avatar...just for you!


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## narvarr (Jan 20, 2009)

stereo_luver said:


> I just reset my system after making mods to my dash speakers. I had to auto TA/EQ to be able to manually adjust all the settings. I could have easily just gone and deleted (set to flat) my saved EQ settings but opted to just reset the unit and begin again. I have 3-4 weeks before my next event so I have plenty of time to do some tuning. I've discussed the need for auto tuning in the beginning of the P99's process for tuning in another thread. If the deck is reset to a clear factory fresh beginning. You must use the auto tune before you can adjust manually. I then throw away the auto tune and begin my own tuning.
> 
> Chuck


You shouldn't have to do auto tune to adjust the settings. I bought a DEH-P01 from Neiber3 that was already set up. I reset the audio settings and went from there. You have to have the seating position set for left side or right side to be able to adjust the settings. I have yet to run the autotune on my unit.

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

I just wanted to bump this thread b/c I found it EXTREMELY helpful, & seems like this kind of stuff is asked quite often. Plenty of other links in here with graphs/charts to help too


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## hottcakes (Jul 14, 2010)

ousooner2 said:


> I just wanted to bump this thread b/c I found it EXTREMELY helpful, & seems like this kind of stuff is asked quite often. Plenty of other links in here with graphs/charts to help too


^^^that right there defeats the purpose for anyone and everyone new to the site from starting their own thread and getting "personalized" suggestions for their "unique" questions. no one wants to read through pages of old threads by people that may or may not be here anymore.


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## redbaronace (Sep 27, 2011)

I found this thread to fascinating and found myself wishing I had the skills and knowledge to tune like some experienced folk here.

Problem is that the dialogue and even terminology was way over my head.

Is there a simple way to learn to tune? Is there a general order for which one should begin adjusting (eq seems like last item to tweek).

I am wanting to learn hands on, but with lack of access to professional or hard core enthusiasts near to me, im somewhat at a loss as to how I can improve in this area.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Where are you from? Surely there's someone fairly close to you that can get in your car and show you the ropes. It takes a while to become second nature but all of a sudden things will start to click. Biggest thing I can tell you is to not think too hard while you're tuning. Go with what your ears and soul tell you and take your eyes completely out of the equationAlso keep in mind that a good sounding system is something like 40% install, 40% tuning, and 20% gear. I've heard low budget systems sound great and high-unlimited budget systems sound like garbage. Papacueball on this forum had a cheap 3-way active Clarion headunit that had limited tuning options, couple cheap entry level (below the gto series) JBL amps, and some inexpensive drivers that performed way better than the price would indicate. After a few gatherings at Erins house he had that car sounding down right INCREDIBLE. That just goes to show you that with a good install and good tuning you can get great sound with very little money.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Puget Sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

hottcakes said:


> ^^^that right there defeats the purpose for anyone and everyone new to the site from starting their own thread and getting "personalized" suggestions for their "unique" questions. no one wants to read through pages of old threads by people that may or may not be here anymore.



Right....b/c the only way to learn tuning info is to create a new thread about your specific setup. gtfo. Since when does old information mean it's not good??


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

chad said:


> Puget Sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


This is what I'm shooting for in my ride! The ultimate sound!


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

chad said:


> Puget Sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


That is just wow!! For me, that picture captures this hobby perfectly. 

Assume you had to sail from the southern tip to the main basin and on into the Pacific, using only a compass (your ears) and knowing that you had to sail north. You'd eventually get there I guess, but if you look at the pic closely its easy to see how lost and off course you could get, even while sailing north. 

Now change the perspective and see the big picture from the aerial shot, your reference sound and its easier to see where and when you've drifted and therefore back track. 

I'm not sure why Chad posted this link, but that's what struck me. Sorry about the off the wall post and no, I'm stone cold sober .

I'm really glad we have a tuning thread going.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

I'm a geology major...and I don't even know what to say lol


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## hottcakes (Jul 14, 2010)

ousooner2 said:


> Right....b/c the only way to learn tuning info is to create a new thread about your specific setup. gtfo. Since when does old information mean it's not good??


*cough*that was sarcasm*cough*


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

sqnut said:


> That is just wow!! For me, that picture captures this hobby perfectly.
> 
> Assume you had to sail from the southern tip to the main basin and on into the Pacific, using only a compass (your ears) and knowing that you had to sail north. You'd eventually get there I guess, but if you look at the pic closely its easy to see how lost and off course you could get, even while sailing north.
> 
> ...


Who knew you were so poetic?!

I wonder if I posted a link about livestock if you could also make it into a perfect analogy for the pursuit of high quality audio.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

hottcakes said:


> *cough*that was sarcasm*cough*



dammit lol. I posted that and just when I thought about it being a joke...It was too late to edit it. I need that red text for sarcasm


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Fricasseekid said:


> I wonder if I posted a link about livestock if you could also make it into a perfect analogy for the pursuit of high quality audio.


You mean like sheep, pigs and cows? I have the Animals cd in the car .

It wasn't meant to be high brow or anything. If you've spent some time tweaking, chances are you would have gone thru a ton of blind alleys and dead ends. Getting a reference sound really helped. I just thought that picture was apt and it struck a chord. Yes I tend to ramble at times .


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## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

sqnut said:


> You mean like sheep, pigs and cows? I have the Animals cd in the car .
> 
> It wasn't meant to be high brow or anything. If you've spent some time tweaking, chances are you would have gone thru a ton of blind alleys and dead ends. Getting a reference sound really helped. I just thought that picture was apt and it struck a chord. Yes I tend to ramble at times .


Didn't think you were being at all pretentious or high brow. I like things that are connected through language and expression. But I better dog it off before I start rambling too....


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## redbaronace (Sep 27, 2011)

Fricasseekid said:


> This is what I'm shooting for in my ride! The ultimate sound!


Nice
Im from the Puget Sound region, but my stereo sound like crap.

Hoping that others that are local and more advanced in SQ can rescue me.


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## Brasil (Apr 3, 2009)

I've spent many hours in the last several weeks in my car trying to learn how to tune. The neighbors think I am crazy, and I suppose I am--sitting for long periods of time running sweeps and pink noise!

I feel like I have learned a lot, and my car finally sounds awesome to me--but I also have a sense of what a difficult and skilled task it is, and how much more there is to learn.

I thought if I just got the right equipment I would make short work of it. 

I have it sounding great now, but I had to make some pretty wild eq adjustments. I equalized one channel at a time, then adjusted in stereo.

Next task is to run a tune with the windows down...


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## divvide (Apr 4, 2009)

great info.


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## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

An interesting thing to keep in mind while looking at those frequency charts:

They are most ideal for those in the mixing stage where you can focus on the stems individually and fine tune each instrument and vocal separately.

When you are mastering a song and trying to fine tune the sound further, it becomes harder to do and you have the issue of boosting/cutting one frequency will affect another. Trying to fix the bass guitar can have an adverse affect on a vocal or piano, for instance. 

Tuning a system is like mastering an album, but taking it further as you are trying to master for LOTS and LOTS of different music. You'll quickly learn you have to compromise.

I think the best solution is to identify the trouble spots that are prevalent and try to fix those with as little EQ as possible. And cuts over boosts is preferable of course....I don't see many instances where boosts would ever be necessary and if they were, then there's a larger problem at hand.

Avoid the smiley face EQ at all costs.....something closer to a frown would be better.

And this cutting of 125-300 hz has to stop. It's removing midbass and warmth in exchange for what? Reduced resonances?

I argue you could never fully fix that problem in a car 100%, and that you should be able to control most of it to a good enough extent that it's a non issue for 95% of your playlist. It's like saying you took your subs out of your car because one song could never sound right on it, so now the rest of the songs have to suffer.....lol.

A word of advice to those that want "perfection" in car audio: It ain't happening. You want perfection, sell everything and get into home audio.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

FG79 said:


> I think the best solution is to identify the trouble spots that are prevalent and try to fix those with as little EQ as possible. And cuts over boosts is preferable of course....I don't see many instances where boosts would ever be necessary and if they were, then there's a larger problem at hand..


This whole mindset of 'using the eq as little as possible' is wrong. Look at Andys graph for speaker level vs ear level response and tell me if you can pick the trouble spots and if the overall response can be corrected with minor tweaking of the eq. The ear level reponse is just a mess thanks to the environment you're listening in. 

I don't have anything boosted, i.e. no frequency is set '+'. Don't just look at cuts and boosts in absolute terms i.e. -/+. Start thinking about cutting and boosting in relative terms. In the 300-800 range, I have everything cut by -3/4 db's, except 500 which is set closer to 0/0. Hence 500 is boosted relative to whats around it in that range. 



FG79 said:


> Avoid the smiley face EQ at all costs.....something closer to a frown would be better...


Use the eq to balance for L/R resonse to help with imaging and then level match for tonal accuracy. So while measured L/R may tell you to set 125hz -3/-1 for L/R balance, tonal accuracy may be better at say -4/-1.5. So be it. So you're compromising on a bit of imaging accuracy (which you may not notice) for better gains on tonality. It's all about making the right choices. You're not going to make the right choice without making mistakes and then catching and correcting them.



FG79 said:


> And this cutting of 125-300 hz has to stop. It's removing midbass and warmth in exchange for what? Reduced resonances?
> 
> I argue you could never fully fix that problem in a car 100%, and that you should be able to control most of it to a good enough extent that it's a non issue for 95% of your playlist. It's like saying you took your subs out of your car because one song could never sound right on it, so now the rest of the songs have to suffer.....lol.
> 
> A word of advice to those that want "perfection" in car audio: It ain't happening. You want perfection, sell everything and get into home audio.


You are not going to get tight snappy mid bass without cutting the 80-400 hz range. Your SPL meter or RTA could tell you that you have a 2-4db dip around 80-125khz. Boosting a bit here or even leaving it flat is going to make your MB boomy or muddy depending on how you treat 200-400. For a tight mid bass you will need to cut both 80-125 and 200-400. 

It's not about reaching perfection, but rather the journey to get there. It's about the challenge of getting the car to sound close to your home 2ch. You keep going cause the sound does get better.


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## TamaDrumz76 (Apr 9, 2010)

Just read through, good thread so far. 

I'm also a P99 owner; always tuning/tinkering my system in quest of the 'holy grail' of sound.

I find of first and foremost importance is finding the most optimal x-over points, slopes, and TA. 

Currently, I'm using a 2-way front stage with a single sealed sub in my Mazda3 sedan (Rainbow Germaniums active and a IA Flatlyne 12). Want to go 3-way front, but money has been an ongoing issue.

I've always had to knock left channels down 1 or 2 as a starting point on the actual speaker level control. As far as EQ goes, I need to reduce the lower frequencies driver-side the most due to both I believe proximity of the driver and also that lower frequencies suffer substantially less from off-axis positioning. Moving up into the mid-range less cut is needed driver side, in fact some frequency bands are requiring cuts on both sides (due to car's natural response). Move up to the higher frequencies, such as the upper mids and highs (played through the tweets), and the passenger side is the problematic side which needs to be cut down. Higher frequencies being both more directional and more effected by axis. Since the driver side tweet is substantially more off axis than the passenger side, regardless of how much closer it is to driving position, the passenger side needed to be rolled down to balance things out. I adjust each frequency band as needed.

If there is one thing that drives me bananas, it's getting near perfect L/R balance throughout the spectrum. I generally tune while listening to good produced music that I'm well familiar with. One example is the crack of the snare drum might be dead center, but maybe the re-verb pulls slightly to the left. While I have a great ear, sometimes it seems even the dual 30 band EQ of the P99 is not enough to make it perfect. Sometimes I feel as if even .5dB steps is not enough. I know most people would not hear much of a difference with a .5 step, but I have ridiculously sensitive ears. Maybe from working with music for so many years, they're well trained.

I figured I would add that the P99's auto feature yields odd results, every time. First of all, I do not like it's points/slopes it picks. It's Auto EQ is very questionable in that it seems to boost the crap out of certain ranges instead of cutting problematic areas. I've had it auto-eq a few times and it always ended up bringing the mid-range up to such a extreme that every piece of music had a 'sea-shell' kind of response. Even the auto time alignment did not provide good enough results. Also, what I find strange is that you cannot edit the "auto eq" profile, nor can you even visually see the curve it picked. Naturally, I've opted to finding all these things on my own and not use the auto feature at all.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Download pink noise tracks for 20-20khz. Get an spl RS meter and measure each frequency at ear level one side at a time. This will tell you which frequency is hotter on which side and by how much. Pink noise tracks are more accurate than the sine wave test tones, specially 1khz up where reflectioons start to kick in.

While the P-99 is a great unit, it's biggest weakness is that the 31 band eq while seperate for L/R channels is not independent for each driver. So when you're using the eq for the left side its affecting both your left mid and left tweet. This is an issue around the xover point. While your far and on axis mid is beaming ~2.5khz and the whole 2-4khz range is hotter from the far mid, your far tweet is not beaming in this range. So if you set the eq according to the mid (which you should) you will lose out a bit vis a vis the tweet. The ability to control each driver independently via a processor will give better results. This will not be an issue for 99% of the people but if you are fussed about precise imaging and tonality then maybe you need to think about this. That said the p-99 in real terms will get you ~90% of where a processor would I had great sound with the p-800 and the p-99 is in a different league. It depends on how badly you want that 10%.

On my bit ten I can adust the eq in increments of 0.2db and yes the difference of 0.2db is easily noticed. I'm glad you said you have trained ears and not golden ears. *Everyone* can train their ears to be sensitive, sensitivity is not genetic. The same applies for any of the other four senses.


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## TamaDrumz76 (Apr 9, 2010)

sqnut said:


> Download pink noise tracks for 20-20khz. Get an spl RS meter and measure each frequency at ear level one side at a time. This will tell you which frequency is hotter on which side and by how much. Pink noise tracks are more accurate than the sine wave test tones, specially 1khz up where reflectioons start to kick in.
> 
> While the P-99 is a great unit, it's biggest weakness is that the 31 band eq while seperate for L/R channels is not independent for each driver. So when you're using the eq for the left side its affecting both your left mid and left tweet. This is an issue around the xover point. While your far and on axis mid is beaming ~2.5khz and the whole 2-4khz range is hotter from the far mid, your far tweet is not beaming in this range. So if you set the eq according to the mid (which you should) you will lose out a bit vis a vis the tweet. The ability to control each driver independently via a processor will give better results. This will not be an issue for 99% of the people but if you are fussed about precise imaging and tonality then maybe you need to think about this. That said the p-99 in real terms will get you ~90% of where a processor would I had great sound with the p-800 and the p-99 is in a different league. It depends on how badly you want that 10%.
> 
> On my bit ten I can adust the eq in increments of 0.2db and yes the difference of 0.2db is easily noticed. I'm glad you said you have trained ears and not golden ears. *Everyone* can train their ears to be sensitive, sensitivity is not genetic. The same applies for any of the other four senses.


Yeah, I do use pink noise tracks as well for certain purposes. However, I find that I achieve best results overall from using actual music that I'm well familiar with. Audio engineering/mixing is a hobby of mine so I've trained my ear to be pretty good at knowing the frequency spectrum and where things should be. Hearing things on reference monitors regularly helps as well. Also, I find with higher frequencies pink noise sometimes being a hassle.

That is good to know. I did not know that that unit had .2dB steps... That's pretty impressive. 

You're also right on the EQ Of the P99... I often wish it was independent for each channel.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Two things that I notice with a lot of systems is the upper midbass-lower midrange is too hot causing a muddy sound in that region and then the tippy top is too hot sometimes. If you tune via an rta you'll get this result. If you listen to it this way long enough your ears will get accustomed to it and will think it's "right". If you tune to where all frequencies are flat to your ears every recording will sound as good as possible within reason. I'm a firm believer in having a good pair of speakers in the home and watching tv through them as well as music. I have the low end boosted 4 clicks because I don't have a sub in the house. Enclosures are .75 tuned to 38hz and eggcrate ocf lining the enclosures. Highpass is at 40hz 12db. IN MY OPINION Usher is hard to beat if you're looking for a pair of speakers that will faithfully reproduce sound without breaking the bank.


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## TamaDrumz76 (Apr 9, 2010)

Although I do like doing things with my own ears and some very common tracks, I do like having an RTA as well. 

I just recently sold my AudioControl SA-3052 spectrum analyzer on ebay and am now looking for a lower priced computer-based type. Was considering grabbing a measurement mic and mic pre then using some of the software available... 

Anyone have experience with the Dayton Audio OmniMic? It looks pretty intuitive, though a bit pricier than just buying a decent measuring mic, a mic pre, and software (if not utilizing one of the freely available programs out there).


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## taibanl (Jun 19, 2011)

Lower E on a Bass Guitar is ~40hz, 5 and 6 string basses go lower. (in response to OP)

Sorry...im a bass player


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Two things that I notice with a lot of systems is the upper midbass-lower midrange is too hot causing a muddy sound in that region and then the tippy top is too hot sometimes. If you tune via an rta you'll get this result. If you listen to it this way long enough your ears will get accustomed to it and will think it's "right". If you tune to where all frequencies are flat to your ears every recording will sound as good as possible within reason. I'm a firm believer in having a good pair of speakers in the home and watching tv through them as well as music. I have the low end boosted 4 clicks because I don't have a sub in the house. Enclosures are .75 tuned to 38hz and eggcrate ocf lining the enclosures. Highpass is at 40hz 12db. IN MY OPINION Usher is hard to beat if you're looking for a pair of speakers that will faithfully reproduce sound without breaking the bank.



^^ Getting the balance right is the key to good sound for me. The different ranges have to be balanced relative to each other. That said, it's much easier to dial in the lower end and to integrate the sub and mid bass. 

The 250hz to 800hz is a key range and is the transition between your mb and the heart of the mid range. This range, along with the 1-4khz range is normally the toughest to get right, at least for me. Our ears have the highest sensitivity in the mid range, so if something is skewed here, you will hear it. Tinny and hollow sound is often the result of this range running hotter than it should be. If the sound is 'stretched', it is often an indication of a L/R imbalance. 800+ is also where reflections start to kick in, good luck with managing that . The mid range which is rich with imaging cues, is being messed up the most by reflections. 

If the 600-4khz is running hot, it will mask out a ton of your mid bass making it dull and the overall sound tinny and thin. One other issue in this range is the integration between the midbass or midrange and the tweeters. How you integrate the drivers over this range will determine stuff like smooth transition and balance. I typically look at the xover point as a baton exchange in a relay race. One runner is slowing down while the other is breaking into the run. I was taught to integrate drivers an octave above and below the xover. E.g. with a xover of 3.25khz in my two way, I will typically eq the tweets down to 1.6khz and the mids up to ~6khz. Since both sets of drivers are playing this range it becomes important to note how much of a given frequency is being played by each set. Eg how much of 3khz is being played by the mids and how much by the tweets. If I need to cut here, do I cut only the mids, only the tweets or a bit of both. All three options will give different sounds.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

The Dayton omnimic is awesome. Does impulse, rta, distortion, and more averaging is a snap too I say this owning truerta, audio control rta, phonic


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

TamaDrumz76 said:


> I figured I would add that the P99's auto feature yields odd results, every time. First of all, I do not like it's points/slopes it picks. It's Auto EQ is very questionable in that it seems to boost the crap out of certain ranges instead of cutting problematic areas. I've had it auto-eq a few times and it always ended up bringing the mid-range up to such a extreme that every piece of music had a 'sea-shell' kind of response. Even the auto time alignment did not provide good enough results. Also, what I find strange is that you cannot edit the "auto eq" profile, nor can you even visually see the curve it picked. Naturally, I've opted to finding all these things on my own and not use the auto feature at all.


I have tried the Auto Eq feature for the 1st time with my P01(P99) and I have to say I am pretty shocked at how good it does. I guess I have had an opposite experience as you with it. I first had it do everything and when I looked at the crossover points it picked, I laughed and changed them to what I am used to. I then ran the auto eq/ta and it was okay. Not great, but okay. 

Then recently I was playing again and decided to let it do everything (crossover, levels, T/A and eq) for fun. It again picked these really funky crossover points and slopes, and again I rolled my eyes. Then I listened and it was a little different than I was used to. I kept listening for a week or so, and as I have made slight adjustments, I really like how it sounds. Voices are natural, much more separation and clarity, and the width is really the biggest improvement. The midbass/sub integration is as good as any car I have ever heard. I can't put in a track with lots of low end and turn my head and look directly at the sub, and even when doing that, the sub bass is locked firmly up front. Maybe my particular system/setup benefited from it....maybe where I put the mic or the car itself, I don't know. All I know is I am very impressed with what it did and a little scared to even post this because I may get flamed for it, but I'm not sure how many actually gave it a chance.


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## TamaDrumz76 (Apr 9, 2010)

Niebur3 said:


> I have tried the Auto Eq feature for the 1st time with my P01(P99) and I have to say I am pretty shocked at how good it does. I guess I have had an opposite experience as you with it. I first had it do everything and when I looked at the crossover points it picked, I laughed and changed them to what I am used to. I then ran the auto eq/ta and it was okay. Not great, but okay.
> 
> Then recently I was playing again and decided to let it do everything (crossover, levels, T/A and eq) for fun. It again picked these really funky crossover points and slopes, and again I rolled my eyes. Then I listened and it was a little different than I was used to. I kept listening for a week or so, and as I have made slight adjustments, I really like how it sounds. Voices are natural, much more separation and clarity, and the width is really the biggest improvement. The midbass/sub integration is as good as any car I have ever heard. I can't put in a track with lots of low end and turn my head and look directly at the sub, and even when doing that, the sub bass is locked firmly up front. Maybe my particular system/setup benefited from it....maybe where I put the mic or the car itself, I don't know. All I know is I am very impressed with what it did and a little scared to even post this because I may get flamed for it, but I'm not sure how many actually gave it a chance.


Imaging was another area where it did not do a good job... Things which should sit 'center' in the stereo field did not. Also, it would always pick the furthest position for my sub in the TA field, and it does not sound right there... I have a rather small car and it picking the furthest distance made it sound strange. Also I noticed that auto will never reverse phase on a driver even when it should indeed be reversed. For one setup I was using, the sub always needed to be reversed but Auto would always put it normal and goodbye low-end, hello cancellation. 

Considering how awesome this headunit is in other regards, I was surprised at how incompetent the auto features were on their own. 

While I had better results with it by just having it do TA rather than the x-over and slopes too, it still was not nearly good enough (as mentioned about the imaging being way off and the sub's "furthest distance", etc)... so now I ignore it entirely.

Oh, and thank you BigRed about the info on the OmniMic... I'm highly considering picking one of those up as a replacement for the AudioControl I just sold.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

I'm not an 'auto anything' guy either. I use an spl meter to balance for L/R and even that I wind up tweaking a bit by ear. The biggest part of dialing in the sound is level matching for tonality, once you have balanced for L/R. Tonality is something that you will have to do by ear. So if you're going to do the toughest bit by ear, then you may as well do the simpler stuff by ear too, so that you have everything the way you want it.

I'm not sure how good the mic with the p-99 is but the one that came with my p-80 looked like a $0.10 job. That said, maybe on that sweep it worked out for Neibur. It's a question of odds, even the machine is allowed get it right sometimes


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

sqnut said:


> I'm not an 'auto anything' guy either. I use an spl meter to balance for L/R and even that I wind up tweaking a bit by ear. The biggest part of dialing in the sound is level matching for tonality, once you have balanced for L/R. Tonality is something that you will have to do by ear. So if you're going to do the toughest bit by ear, then you may as well do the simpler stuff by ear too, so that you have everything the way you want it.
> 
> I'm not sure how good the mic with the p-99 is but the one that came with my p-80 looked like a $0.10 job. That said, maybe on that sweep it worked out for Neibur. It's a question of odds, even the machine is allowed get it right sometimes


I know, I was shocked. I have NEVER been a auto tune guy and tired it on a whim. Maybe my type of setup is what it was made to do...who knows. All I know is I have a rock solid center, great width and a sub that sound like it is in the dash, not to mention great tonality and very nice (eye level) height with the mids in the kicks. I have tweaked some already and probably will continue to, but the baseline it gave me was really impressive. It seemed to me the P99 uses the eq to correct phase, although I can't verify since (my only complaint) I can't see the auto eq curve. The mic looks very similar to my p800, but the job it does it not even close. I am sure my tweaking will continue for a while.

The hardest part about tuning has to be knowing what is right and what it wrong. The reference point is probably more important than anything, otherwise you are just shooting blind!


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Niebur3 said:


> The hardest part about tuning has to be knowing what is right and what it wrong. The reference point is probably more important than anything, otherwise you are just shooting blind!


I agree that a reference is very important. Without it one would be lost. Once you have that reference in place then go back and forth between the car and the 2ch with the same set of cd's and you'll begin to pick whats wrong easier. 

The next hurdle is to get intuitively familiar with each frequency you control and what it solves/causes. I'm currently stuck here. I've gone from the p-800 to the bit ten. Whole different level of processing. 31 bands per driver in steps of +/- 0.2db vs 16 per side with +/- 1db on the pio. Its going to take me a while to get intuitive with the bit ten.

However where I struggle the most is in not stopping when I should . Stopping when you should lets you set your baselines. These will tell you if you're moving in the right direction and give you good sound when you just want to listen and not tweak. 

Now that was a ramble. Apologies, Jerry.


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