# 2019 WRX Base 3 way active front



## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Hi all! Thanks to the help of several members suggestions and some free time I was able to install a full 3 way active front array in my 2019 WRX with base radio.After much deliberation and way too much back and forth on my part I ended up with a pretty fair to middling system in my daily driver. I drive about 20 miles each way to and from work and getting into my car I have a smile from ear to ear every time I get in the darned car and that was before the audio upgrade! I didn't want a bunch of exposed gear (work ain't in the best of neighborhoods) or having to modify a bunch of the car as I plan on keep it for a long time to come. The following is what I've got installed and just recently got tuned.I installed everything myself over the course of a weeks vacation that my way too understanding wife suggested. Thanks Honey!

Stock head unit ( for now ) Joying Android head unit with Optical out
Audio Frog GS-10, GS-25 and GS-60 in the front doors
Diamond Audio DES-652 in the rear doors (just a little "fill" )
Rockford Fosgate P3-10DV2 ( in a temporary .7 cu ft sealed box. In a Wicked CAS corner mounted fiberglass enclosure @ .9 cu ft
Audio Control D6.1200 ( powering the front 3 way active setup ) DSP TBD
Audio Control LC6.1200 ( for the rear doors and bridged to the sub ) Powering the GS 60-10 through a JL Audio crossover and the rear doors GS25 unused right now
Pioneer GM-D9701 powering the Sub

I realize I'm under utilizing the LC6 but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on it. I decided to keep the stock head unit at least for now as I like the stock look and unless I get a huge screen unit like a Halo or similar I wont be gaining any screen size to speak of. Besides it does what I ask it to for now. In the following posts I will include pictures and brief descriptions of the process. Again i wish to thank everyone who has given me advise either directly or indirectly through viewing their posts to learn from.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

First off the Audio Control stuff, the fore mentioned amps and i'm using the acr-3 knob and bt-24. The acr-3 to swap between my presets and the bt-24 I'm not using to stream yet but hope to soon.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Next up the speakers as mentioned above. Don't have a picture of the sub box as its embarrassingly awful to look at. It's just temporary as I ordered a pass side custom box from Wicked Audio to put the Rockford into.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Speakers continued....


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I ran an old school 0-ga wire from the battery to the dist block in rear. This is of course OFC and thick as heck, diameter is somewhere between a nickle and a quarter in cross section. Not a bit of oxidation or corrosion in it. There is an unused plug on the drivers side kick panel above and to the left of the fuse box, where i assume the sunroof drain tube would go through, that i drilled out to be able to just barely run the power wire through.It worked perfectly as there was still enough material body left to properly seal and safely insulate the wire from the metal edge. Out back on the amp board I mounted the power and ground blocks. Everything is 0 ga as i figured since the amp can take it use it. I must admit this car seems tailor made to put an amazing system into I ran the power wire and the equivalent of a 4 ga power wire (the speed wire I'm using is the size of a 4 ga power wire) along the drivers side with not a single issue, plenty of space there. Same on the pass side for a double run of speed wire and rear door speaker wiring as well.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I'm using speed wire as follows; the 4 channels and supplementary turn on in one run along with a second run to power the front 3 way set up using 1 pair of wires to the tweets and another to the mid-range, the other 2 pair i combined to power the mid-basses in the front doors ( as suggested to me by Lanson I believe ). This should be enough to power the speakers comfortably i hope. The rear doors i ran a set of 14ga wires to each. Again with the ease of running wires in this car it was a piece of cake. I used quick disconnects at both kick panels in case in the future to dash has to come out for some reason. I was a Ford tech for 15 years and hated having to cut and re-splice audio wiring when a dash had to be pulled for whatever reason.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I purchased a large roll of SoundSkin Pro and their Speaker Ring kit to silence this car, 15% off was a good deal to me It's pretty buzzy to begin with so when I removed the door panels i lined the inside door skin as well as the skin where the water barrier plastic went originally. I took my time to cover as much as i possibly could of the metal whatever "extra" pieces from trimming was put to use as well. This car sounds freaking solid now! When you knock on a panel its simply dead solid. I took a video of the sound difference not sure it comes through but its night and day. I did the same to the decklid, trunk, trunk lid and spare tire well.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

More sound deadening.......


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Last bit of deadening, sorry i didn't take pictures of the rear deck itself but it was similarly covered. I also added material to the inside of the door panel itself and insulated the door panel clips holes and slots to get it as quiet as possible.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I'm using the high level inputs of the AC D6-1200 along with its signal sense to turn everything on (using that amps 12v trigger to turn on the LC6-1200) I simply mounted everything to board made of expanded PVC to allow access and use of my spare tire and tools. When you look in the trunk you see nothing ( save for the ugly box there right now ) and that is how i wanted it. I'll post an update picture once I get the custom box installed. The factory foam floor has some compartments that I simply cut flush to allow the amp rack to be where it is and it still allows me to use the trunk as normal. I did add a support to the center of the amp board extending to the underside of the carpeted stock ABS plastic as the pockets I cut away before used to sit on top of the spare tire to add strength and support.I will probably add a black wire mesh to the floor foam for aesthetic reasons.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

The speakers were all mounted in their stock locations with speaker adapters i made out of the same expanded pvc. They are crude but seem to work fine so far. I am planning on getting some proper ones if I can find them, the front door adapters from Metra work "ok" but there is a large gap between the front of the speaker and the door panel due to the fact the stock speaker has a thick spacer to but up against the door panel. I used the speaker rings to take up that gap but i would prefer some custom or proper speaker adapters to bring the front of the speakers closer to the door panel speaker opening. The tweeters were the only "custom" thing I did simply mounted them to the A pillars as best i could as the surface isn't really flat. I looks ok but I'd like something nicer along the way. Since i was in the doors anyways i added turn signals into the mirrors using a kit from Subispeed and they are 100% stock oem, what you get in the package is all factory Subaru components in their original packaging.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I installed everything in November but hadn't uploaded till now due to simply neglecting to do so. As mentioned I just had it tuned by a local shop as i don't have the required equipment to do it myself. I hear a truck they did for a customer of mine at that simply sounded amazing so I figured I would have them do it. Cost me $200 which I think is fair for the time I know it takes to do ( dropped it off at 9:45 and picked up at: 4:30 ). It sounds good with a clear (to me) stage in front of me in preset 1 and the center of dash in preset 2 as i requested. I am alone in my car 90% of the time so i am priority number 1 but wanted my wife or whoever is in the car at the time to experience it as well. I have to do some detail rattle killing in the rear bumper and the rear deck also but it is pretty quiet when it comes to rattles etc.

I am happy with it but I am looking to be "wowed" by it not sure if i can explain but I feel it is missing some "body" or "fullness" to the sound. Maybe missing some midbass or midrange? I'm going to give it some time and see how I feel about it. Maybe go back and have him tweak some more. For now that's it, should get the sub enclosure in a couple weeks so I'll post that when it gets put in. Feel free to contact me with any questions or suggestions. Thanks again to everyone's advise and postings, without it I'd have been lost.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Looks really nice. Good job. 

Did you get it tuned with a sub? You mention waiting on an enclosure and using a temp enclosure so it is unclear if you have a sub, which would definitely affect the fullness of sound. Maybe see what it sounds like with the final enclosure.


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## CarbonDetails (Sep 9, 2009)

Nice build. I have an 18 sti and I’m running active off the stock deck, LOC, DSP and I feel it’s lacking as well. I was so persistent on keeping a factory deck but I am changing it out this week to a Sony headunit. You have CarPlay and android auto so you have even more reason to keep your stock deck. Hopefully the new headunit helps.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

dgage said:


> Looks really nice. Good job.
> 
> Did you get it tuned with a sub? You mention waiting on an enclosure and using a temp enclosure so it is unclear if you have a sub, which would definitely affect the fullness of sound. Maybe see what it sounds like with the final enclosure.


Yes I got it tuned with the sub running, albiet with the temporary box. Which sounds perfectly capable for my likes. I will definitely look into it tuning again once I get the final box installed. Shouldn't be a drastic difference though, only about .15 to. 2 cu ft difference volume wise.

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

CarbonDetails said:


> Nice build. I have an 18 sti and I’m running active off the stock deck, LOC, DSP and I feel it’s lacking as well. I was so persistent on keeping a factory deck but I am changing it out this week to a Sony headunit. You have CarPlay and android auto so you have even more reason to keep your stock deck. Hopefully the new headunit helps.


Been thinking of using a different source (ie my phone) wired directly to the d6 amp to see if there is an appreciable change. I have Tidal (hifi -master quality) which honestly doesn't seem like a difference to my ears right now. Maybe the source is a problem after all?

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Sooooo my sub enclosure came in from Wicked CAS. Must say I was very impressed with got and finish. Instructions on the website are a little vague but easy to make out if you pay attention. It is designed to sit in the metal floor of the trunk directly. Since I have heavily sound deadened the trunk top, bottom and sides it had to sit on my to of the SoundSkin. As such it slightly raised it from designed placement. The back of the enclosure has a small "nipple" that lines up with the "dimple" in the stock side panel exactly where one of the retaining clips goes. Idea is to drill out the center on the dimple and using a bolt secure the enclosure to the vehicle. I removed the right side longer and figured out which hole the nipple lines up with and inserted a rivet-nut into the hole, perfect fit for a 10/24 insert if I recall correctly. Since my box would be slightly raised due to the sound deadening I went with a stud coming from the rivet-nut instead of going crazy trying to line up the hole with a bolt from inside the enclosure. I easily lined up the stud with the hole in the dimple put a washer and nut on it and securely tightened the enclosure to the car. That isn't going anywhere and the thing looks freaking amazing if I say so myself! Small issue was installing the sub, my Rockford P3 10 uses a bit wider that usual mounting diameter due to the ears on the circumference of the basket, it's about 3/8"too wide to fit in the flush mount the enclosure was designed with. Fabbed up a spacer to bring it flush with the surface of the enclosure and voila, fits beautifully and once I get the grill I ordered it'll be safe and sound back there. Sound quality wise it seems to be a bit crisper of the makes sense. The enclosure is about .2 cu ft bigger than the test box I had it in (was .75, this thing is .95) I did fill it with about 10 to 12oz of fiber fill. It sounds good to me and I'm happy with the output it has. Heck if I ever want more I'll get a second one for the drivers side!












































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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

That's a nice enclosure!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Even before I put a system into my car whenever I would simply shut the trunk I would hear buzz or rattle from the left bumper corner where the cover meets up with the 1\4 panel. Needless to say after putting a sub in there whenever even the slightest bass note hit it would buzz which would bother me to no end to know it sounds like a rattletrap from the outside. Found out that by simply laying a finger on the the center portion of the bumper\panel gap the noise would be completely gone. Well with the whole Corona virus thing going on the shop has been pretty slow so figured let's address this now. As I would have to say least remove that corner of the bumper I decided to remove the whole thing. I attached a piece of "flock tape" under the bumper retainer to ensure no noise from the contact of the metal and plastic. Then I covered the inside of the bumper cover and as much of the metal covered by the bumper cover possible. When I put it back on I found I still had a little bit of noise from the same area. Scratching my head I figured it must be the bumper cover vibrating against the surface of the retainer itself. Using the flock tape again I covered the retainer without blocking access to the holding tabs. That did it! Dead as a door nail, no more noise! I used the flock tape instead of the SoundSkin under the bumper retainer because I think it would have sperated the bracket too much from the metal causing the edge of the bumper to stick out instead of being flush to the 1\4 panel.





































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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> That's a nice enclosure!


More than worth the money I spent, $359 plus shipping

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Yep, I have been eyeing this exact enclosure up for a while now. It will probably be what I eventually go with.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> Yep, I have been eyeing this exact enclosure up for a while now. It will probably be what I eventually go with.


I wish I'd taken more pictures of the process of installation but it really was straight forward. There were like 3 I had been looking into, same price pretty much across there board. Ended up going with the Wicked one for the sole reason they were the only ones I was able to actually talk to. The others never replied to my email or voicemails. Rather give my business to someone who actually cares to have some semblance of support. The 12"would be surface mount vs flush for the 10" (maybe most 10", not the RF, LOL)

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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

Wow, nice clean setup. I might have to go with those enclosures as well. The only ones I've seen, they wanted ridiculous amounts of money for them. 

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

beerdrnkr said:


> Wow, nice clean setup. I might have to go with those enclosures as well. The only ones I've seen, they wanted ridiculous amounts of money for them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


I'm very happy with the way they look and easily integrated into the trunk. They sound great with my sub/power combo. I was able to keep the use of most of my trunk which for me was very important. Wife travels a bit and need to be sure o can put in the suitcases without issue. This allowed me to do it and have good sounding clean bass. By killing the rattle in the rear corner bumper you wouldn't be able to tell I've got anything back there until I'm at stupid level volume. Oh! And had to put a strip of ccf between the 3 Rd brake light and the rear glass, just enough to keep pressure between them as it was also a source of noise. Any questions feel free to ask!

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Do you still feel the stock HU is good enough to get by with or is it hampering your SQ?


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

THX0849 said:


> I'm very happy with the way they look and easily integrated into the trunk. They sound great with my sub/power combo. I was able to keep the use of most of my trunk which for me was very important. Wife travels a bit and need to be sure o can put in the suitcases without issue. This allowed me to do it and have good sounding clean bass. By killing the rattle in the rear corner bumper you wouldn't be able to tell I've got anything back there until I'm at stupid level volume. Oh! And had to put a strip of ccf between the 3 Rd brake light and the rear glass, just enough to keep pressure between them as it was also a source of noise. Any questions feel free to ask!
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


Believe me, I know how tough it is to get rid of those rattles. Lol. I had a 2015 wrx and now a 2018. Had an IB setup in the first car. Ran 3 10s sealed in this car but now running 2 10's ported. I may have to go back to IB, it really helped eliminate some of the rattles. 

Yours is a great option too though, I find myself missing my trunk more and more.























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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

LOL, yeah these aren't the tightest cars in the world. How did running IB help to get rid off rattles? I thought it would be have been the opposite. And yes I get the"missing trunk" thing, I had an interim sealed 10"and just that one small box was a bother as to lost space. That's why I went with the corner enclose. For now a single 10" is fine for me, always have the option to "expand" and keep the central portion of my trunk. Can even get to the spare!

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Oh and those 2 12's look amazing in there! LOL

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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

THX0849 said:


> LOL, yeah these aren't the tightest cars in the world. How did running IB help to get rid off rattles? I thought it would be have been the opposite. And yes I get the"missing trunk" thing, I had an interim sealed 10"and just that one small box was a bother as to lost space. That's why I went with the corner enclose. For now a single 10" is fine for me, always have the option to "expand" and keep the central portion of my trunk. Can even get to the spare!
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


I had an Impreza RS, and there was plenty of play in the panels. After getting my GTI, the difference was pretty eye opening. The problem is, the VW is so snug that it feels like you're going to break something if you drive it a bit too hard. The Subaru seemed indestructible, like it was going to rattle the same amount regardless of how hard you drove. 

I ran several IB setups in the Impreza, and although I don't necessarily think that going IB eliminated rattles, the tear down and fabrication process allowed me to address a lot of rattles that I wouldn't have without ripping things apart, so the project ended with fewer rattles, but mostly because I fixed so many when the trunk and seats were all torn apart.


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

THX0849 said:


> LOL, yeah these aren't the tightest cars in the world. How did running IB help to get rid off rattles? I thought it would be have been the opposite. And yes I get the"missing trunk" thing, I had an interim sealed 10"and just that one small box was a bother as to lost space. That's why I went with the corner enclose. For now a single 10" is fine for me, always have the option to "expand" and keep the central portion of my trunk. Can even get to the spare!
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


I think the additional bracing I did helped. However, there was a noticeable difference when it was a single 15 and then added an additional 15. The second 15 was too much, if I were to do it again I would go a single 15. 

Do they just make those sealed enclosures for one side or are they available for both sides? 

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Both sides, you can do one side then the other or buy both at one time, saves on shipping and you save $60 getting both, $359 each or $659 both. I sound like I'm selling them, LOL. Really though, I am happy with it as it is as far as bass and how freaking good it looks. Just got my microphone so now I can try and tune and figure out what's missing in my sound. Yay! Picture of after cutting the trunk liner.









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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

Nice another VA WRX getting tunes!! I need to do a write up on mine.. i went 4 way active with a 10" Sub.. im loving the mix of Audiofrog GB25 and Hertz 280.3 and 1650.3.. that GB25 has such a wide range of frequencies. The 5/30 Pro is really driving the GB10D4 nicely! I went with a cheap wedge box that i can remove. I did want those custom boxes but 400+ with shipping was too much! Needed me a new turbo so had to cut costs somewhere! Btw very nice write up!!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

killadawg said:


> Nice another VA WRX getting tunes!! I need to do a write up on mine.. i went 4 way active with a 10" Sub.. im loving the mix of Audiofrog GB25 and Hertz 280.3 and 1650.3.. that GB25 has such a wide range of frequencies. The 5/30 Pro is really driving the GB10D4 nicely! I went with a cheap wedge box that i can remove. I did want those custom boxes but 400+ with shipping was too much! Needed me a new turbo so had to cut costs somewhere! Btw very nice write up!!


Thanks! Love my ride, daily driver and couldn't be happier. Like I think I mentioned these cars seem to be built to install into. So much access in the rockers and body of the car to run wires etc. And the ease of disassembly is a breathe of fresh air with cars getting more and more user unfriendly. Would love to see what you did! 4 way huh? 

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Yes, please tell. Where did you put your GB25's? Dash? I just designed a 3D printed adapter for the dash of my 2017 to mount some GB25's, but haven't gotten the prototype in the mail yet. I had someone print it for me since I don't have my own printer (yet).


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> Yes, please tell. Where did you put your GB25's? Dash? I just designed a 3D printed adapter for the dash of my 2017 to mount some GB25's, but haven't gotten the prototype in the mail yet. I had someone print it for me since I don't have my own printer (yet).


GB-25?! I wish! No I've got the full GS line array,10,25 and 60. The GS-25 has a multi tab mounting system that allows you to break off non needed tabs to simply allow you to mount into MANY stock locations. If that doesn't work, break off all the tabs and you have a traditional 4 hole mount. So far I just recently got a mic to try and tune this thing. To say I'm frustrated is a fair comment. I even went as far as using the setup in an active 2 way using the 10 and 60 as a compliment set and my sub to see how it would sound. I used the lc6 1200 and set up the crossovers and levels and it honestly didn't sound better stock at least as far as evenness. It feels as if there is no body to the sound. The tweets are bright so have to turn them down but it's still not right. I really don't want anyone thinking I'm blaming the speakers (yet) but it's just not right sounding 2 or 3 way, active with it without DSP. Can't be that difficult for it to sound better that stock! Well once I get a longer aux cable I'll try and use REW to see where I stand. I'll try and keep it posted. I am open to suggestions and criticisms. 

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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

Yes in the dash


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> GB-25?! I wish! No I've got the full GS line array,10,25 and 60. The GS-25 has a multi tab mounting system that allows you to break off non needed tabs to simply allow you to mount into MANY stock locations. If that doesn't work, break off all the tabs and you have a traditional 4 hole mount. So far I just recently got a mic to try and tune this thing. To say I'm frustrated is a fair comment. I even went as far as using the setup in an active 2 way using the 10 and 60 as a compliment set and my sub to see how it would sound. I used the lc6 1200 and set up the crossovers and levels and it honestly didn't sound better stock at least as far as evenness. It feels as if there is no body to the sound. The tweets are bright so have to turn them down but it's still not right. I really don't want anyone thinking I'm blaming the speakers (yet) but it's just not right sounding 2 or 3 way, active with it without DSP. Can't be that difficult for it to sound better that stock! Well once I get a longer aux cable I'll try and use REW to see where I stand. I'll try and keep it posted. I am open to suggestions and criticisms.
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


HAHA. Yeah, the GB's are very pricey. I just lucked out and picked up a set of GB10/GB25's out of the classifieds brand new in the box at a great price. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to afford GB's. Still looking for some second-hand GB60's. This will be a slow process as I piece together my system from second-hand stuff. I went through that phase of life when I wanted to buy everything brand new, but as you know, there is a lot of great second-hand equipment out there so my goal is to try building my system primarily with used stuff. 

I fear to have the same issue you have and am wondering if the problem lies with the stock HU. Aren't you using the D6.1200 for the front stage? This has a DSP with summing and all that fancy stuff, right? I wonder if the stock HU has any sort of factory timing adjustments. I don't think it does, but not sure if anyone can confirm that.



killadawg said:


> Yes in the dash


Nice! So it looks like you used the supplied mounting ring from the GB25's. I didn't even think of that. LOL Attached is a pic of the mount I designed. My only concern is that my design may cause the speaker to contact the plastic grill since it is 6mm tall (plus the speaker is 6mm tall). We shall see when I get it in the mail. No big deal if it doesn't work as it only cost me about $6 to have someone make it. My other option will be to make the same shape from acrylic and keep it to about 3-4mm. Did you just mount it infinite baffle or did you put some sort of enclosure underneath it?


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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

Frequentflyer said:


> HAHA. Yeah, the GB's are very pricey. I just lucked out and picked up a set of GB10/GB25's out of the classifieds brand new in the box at a great price. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to afford GB's. Still looking for some second-hand GB60's. This will be a slow process as I piece together my system from second-hand stuff. I went through that phase of life when I wanted to buy everything brand new, but as you know, there is a lot of great second-hand equipment out there so my goal is to try building my system primarily with used stuff.
> 
> I fear to have the same issue you have and am wondering if the problem lies with the stock HU. Aren't you using the D6.1200 for the front stage? This has a DSP with summing and all that fancy stuff, right? I wonder if the stock HU has any sort of factory timing adjustments. I don't think it does, but not sure if anyone can confirm that.
> 
> ...


all I did was pad the insides of the space with some sound skins, it was a bit hard to do a decent job, yet I think it probably helps a little, still some space for waves to go down. yet they are plenty loud as it is right now, they are my loudest so far.. Thus next steps are tuning with rta and mic.. waiting on usb soundcard.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

killadawg said:


> all I did was pad the insides of the space with some sound skins, it was a bit hard to do a decent job, yet I think it probably helps a little, still some space for waves to go down. yet they are plenty loud as it is right now, they are my loudest so far.. Thus next steps are tuning with rta and mic.. waiting on usb soundcard.


What are the rest of your system specs? Are you running the factory HU?


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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

I will post a WIP of mine with all my specs.. prob. check in a day or two.. sucks that I don't have all the nice pictures as OP does.. I had to give my "camera" phone to my kids so I could actually do the install! but in short.. not stock HU, Android Alibaba special (was told by many that they suck and start clipping @ 10% volume etc.. mainly by shop owners and pro installers etc.. well the Idoing unit I have doesn't clip until 26 volume out of 30 total, so I'd say its better than most people say they are, and with the DSP being able to run optical from a high end player bypassing the HU completely I don't really care what they say! all controls worked out of the box, rear camera, steering etc.. no extra cables to buy, just plug n play. and customer support when I got a little stumped was 5 min chat return with pictures and information (they are in china, it was like 2 am for them!! kudos)


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> I fear to have the same issue you have and am wondering if the problem lies with the stock HU. Aren't you using the D6.1200 for the front stage? This has a DSP with summing and all that fancy stuff, right? I wonder if the stock HU has any sort of factory timing adjustments. I don't think it does, but not sure if anyone can confirm that.
> 
> I am using the d-6.1200 for my front stage, dsp, summing etc is built in. I am not using the summing right now as the front output from the head unit is much stronger than the rear, so I'm using the front only no summing needed.Not sure if the factory unit has timing built in to it but it does have "seating position" setting which is currently all seats. I might have confused some people by saying I was using my LC-6.1200. What i meant by that is in my attempts to figure things out i took the DSP amp out of the loop and went right into the LC instead, in a 2-way setup using only the GS60 & GS10 and sub. Used the LC's crossovers to actively drive the setup. It was here that i decided to not use the rear head unit output to the amps. I was using a phone app and a speaker pop test tone to verify speaker polarity and when testing each channel separately i had polarity correct to all speakers but when I connected all the speakers and re-tested my left tweet and right mid-bass were out of phase. Contacted Audio Control and they recommend to turn off summing and use only the front channels as the rears might be introducing a filter causing the issue. I have not as of yet verified if that resolved the issue. once i have all my needed gear ill re check polarity etc as part of the tuning process.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

killadawg said:


> all I did was pad the insides of the space with some sound skins, it was a bit hard to do a decent job, yet I think it probably helps a little, still some space for waves to go down. yet they are plenty loud as it is right now, they are my loudest so far.. Thus next steps are tuning with rta and mic.. waiting on usb soundcard.



When you say "pad the insides" did you basically create a pocket as an enclosure for the 2.5"? I read in one of these threads somebody recommended duct taping the back of the basket itself to create a bit of an enclosure. I didn't do that, its mounted IB, not sure if that duct tape thing is a good idea but making a pocket out of material sounds interesting.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I got my 3D printed ABS speaker adapter I designed in the mail today. It fits perfectly. Now I only hope the GB25 isn't too tall and doesn't interfere with the factory grill. If it does, I may need to redesign the adapter a few mils thinner. I guess the question is how thin can i get it and still maintain adequate rigidity. I should be getting my GB25 later in the week. I may also need to shave some material off the underside of the grill.

I may toy with making this adapter with an enclosure incorporated into it that fits down into that cavity. However, there are several obstructions down there, mainly plastic, that would need to be trimmed out to get a good 2.5"×2.5"×2" enclosure.

Just wanted to add that I am by no means trying to hijack this build thread. I am just trying to add discussion and ideas for other 2015+ WRX owners because I know how little info/ideas is out there for this car when it comes to upgrading the audio. There is tons of info on how to make more horsepower, but not much about audio.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Do not worry about hijacking anything. The more audio info for this car the better! It's a super fun car to drive so the audio would be icing on the cake. I think I saw someone mention using a 2" PVC cap as an enclosure. Not sure there cap is deep enough for this speaker with the magnet structure but a cap and a short piece of pipe....

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> Do not worry about hijacking anything. The more audio info for this car the better! It's a super fun car to drive so the audio would be icing on the cake. I think I saw someone mention using a 2" PVC cap as an enclosure. Not sure there cap is deep enough for this speaker with the magnet structure but a cap and a short piece of pipe....
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


Interesting. Well looking down into that cavity, at least on the driver's side, there is some extra plastic toward the steering wheel side of the car that would need to be cut out of there in order for an enclosure to fit down into that hole. It doesn't interfere with the magnet of a speaker, but it's more toward the side of the cavity where it'd get in the way of a cylindrical shaped enclosure. I could easily design a 3D printed enclosure with an integrated adapter like I showed above that fits right down into that hole. I may play around with that idea. It'd pretty hard to work with the limited space and weird angles though so I am not sure how it'd get down in there to cut that stuff out. Maybe a Dremel with a flexi-shaft.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Here are a few pics of the design I have been working on for the dash speaker locations. It's basically a combination of the adapter mount I made with an enclosure that has a volume around .2 cuft. The issue will be trimming plastic in that cavity to get this thing to fit. The hole in the bottom is for wires that could maybe incorporate a grommet. Still a work in progress of course.


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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

you can probably do a scan with a newer phone of the area and 3D print a custom enclosure per side that accommodates to the irregularities of the insides that you can drop right in.. yet this driver does mention that it works as IB with no problems. id say try without the hassle, if it sounds good then done.. if you think it would help, then go the $$$ and extra effort method.. I always try the KISS principle first!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> Here are a few pics of the design I have been working on for the dash speaker locations. It's basically a combination of the adapter mount I made with an enclosure that has a volume around .2 cuft. The issue will be trimming plastic in that cavity to get this thing to fit. The hole in the bottom is for wires that could maybe incorporate a grommet. Still a work in progress of course.


 damn nice, gonna try to do something with it this weekend if I get a chance. I wonder if a baffle like an XTC would work as it's maleable to the contours underneath. V

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> damn nice, gonna try to do something with it this weekend if I get a chance. I wonder if a baffle like an XTC would work as it's maleable to the contours underneath. V
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


I thought about a baffle from XTC, but they only make a 3" version, which is going to be slightly big. I was worried it'd bunch up to accommodate the smaller opening and I am a little anal-retentive. I have been designing these things in Autodesk Fusion 360. You can download a free copy for "personal use". It's got quite a steep learning curve if you've never had CAD experience, but with the help of YouTube, anything is possible and I've been able to learn a lot. I was going to buy my own 3D printer, but there are plenty of people out there that will 3D print your design for a reasonable price. I paid $6.50 for one adapter mount. I haven't gotten a price yet for an enclosure type print, but with the extra plastic and printing time, I'd guess they'd be somewhere around $15-18 each for ABS.

I got my GB10/GB25's this morning and test fit them. I am still waiting for some brass threaded heat-sunk inserts for my adapters, so I don't have a way to screw them down yet, but the speakers fit on the adapter like they were made for each other. I am quite floored by the accuracy of these CAD programs and 3D printing. It's pretty impressive when a CAD novice like myself can make things like this.

As I was afraid of, the OE grills touch the GB25's. I made my adapters 6mm tall and the GB25's are 6mm tall at the rubber surround. That is roughly .472" from the dash plastic to the top of the speaker surround when installed. My options are to try making these adapters skinnier, say 3mm and reprinting in ABS (strong, but semi-flexible at 3mm) or having them laser cut out of 3mm acrylic, which is more rigid. If I do acrylic, I'd lose the ability to incorporate the enclosure without 3D printing the enclosure out of ABS and then somehow gluing it to the bottom of the acrylic adapter (doable, but less clean IMO). Again, there are a few obstructions down there. I will need to see if there is a way to cut those out or make a more conforming enclosure from a fiberglass mold. Of course, this could all be for little gain, as I don't really know yet how the GB25's will sound IB vs. enclosed. I am just F'ing around at this point.

I will definitely need to modify the OE grills by cutting large sections out of them and covering in grill cloth to get more clearance. I was thinking about doing that anyway just for better sound.

I also got the GB10's in one of the pictures where I was "thinking" about installing them, but not sure how that's going to affect their sound. I was looking at maybe putting them in the A-pillars, but without work they aim a little downware toward the dash. Is this how yours are?


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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

Those look really nice.. BTW I used to work for Autodesk.. lol small world, I know many of the Fusion 360 team! its a great program with lots of features! I kinda wish I'd gotten the GB10's or 15's.. oh well, I will work with what I have for now, the Hertz sound great and they combo gives me a bit of both worlds.. yeah a custom baffle is prob. better than jamming in that 3 1/2 in xtc one.. I need to buy a 3D printer!! damn it priorities!! bought a big ass turbo and FMIC instead!! lol more PPSSHHHAAAAAA to make my car noisier!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX, were you able to use the RTA function of the D-6.1200 to see the signal coming out of the OE HU?


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## Bobby_Jones (Apr 9, 2020)

Nice build. Inspiring me to upgrade from my coaxials haha.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> THX, were you able to use the RTA function of the D-6.1200 to see the signal coming out of the OE HU?


Yep, is not exactly flat let me them ya! But there doesn't seem to be any bass roll off either. Just captured that picture a moment ago. Same result either Bluetooth or USB stick.









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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Sorry for the dirty screen, used one of the laptops from work to get the pic just now.

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> Sorry for the dirty screen, used one of the laptops from work to get the pic just now.
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


Interesting. That is with the OE EQ zeroed out? Surprising that it is pretty flat up top with a boost down low. Normally it's the opposite for an OE system.

I've watched a video on Youtube on how to tune with the D-6.1200 and how it can flatten the OE signal automatically. Is this what you did before you tuned it?


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I did some more R&D on the dash speaker location. It appears that "extra" plastic in there is the duct for the defrost vents, so tearing into them is obviously not an option. Fortunately, after mounting the adapter I made and looking down through the windshield, they do not appear to be an issue. There is at least 2.5" of depth (maybe even 2.75") on the driver's side and well over 2.75" of depth on the passenger side to play with for the small adapter/enclosure design I have been working on so it should slide right down in there. I will finalize the design in the next few days and have it 3D printed to test fitment. I also ordered some CNC router bits for my rotary tool and plan on using a flex shaft to cut some holes for the GB10's in that same area toward the corners of the dash. There isn't a lot of room to work up there, but I'll give it a shot. If I can cut the hole accurate enough, I should be able to drop the tweeter right down in there without worrying about fastening it from behind.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> Interesting. That is with the OE EQ zeroed out? Surprising that it is pretty flat up top with a boost down low. Normally it's the opposite for an OE system.
> 
> I've watched a video on Youtube on how to tune with the D-6.1200 and how it can flatten the OE signal automatically. Is this what you did before you tuned it?


Yeah I found it odd also, yes everything is zeroed out and I did the auto tune that was built in to the amp twice per output. Like I mentioned I even tried a couple different sources to be sure that wasn't an issue either. 


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Oh and if you're referring to the videos from Mark at CAF yes I've been following instructions best I could. He got a great channel to follow.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

With the goal of starting fresh I did a hardware reset of the D-6.1200. I set the following parameters which are completely arbitrary and just based on the actual measurements of the car (using a string and tape measure) and what I think the speakers should be playing.

LT 39.25". RT 54"
LM 42.5". RM 54.5"
LW 42". RW 57" 
SUB 78" for both channels and picked mono

Crossovers are;

Tweeter 4k to 20k
Mid range 400 to 4k
Mid bass 80 to 400
Sub 25 to 80 (25 is the built in subsonic filter in the amp)

I also present to you for your consideration the Mic rig of the year! LOL, had to come up with something to hold it in position best I could at the moment. Not sure if it's supposed to be facing forward or up and down but it is darn close to ear position while sitting in the car.









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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

EQ Flat and center for fade/balance. I'm not using the rear channel inputs to the amp so not sure if I should fade it fully to the front. I can say that in order for the rear channel to show up on the RTA input I have to lower the graph to 50db from 70db for the front and even then it's on the lower part of the graph. 









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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Looking forward to seeing your progress!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

This is the input RTA for the amp at volume 30 (38 is max for my stock head unit), there is no discernible difference at a lower volume as far as roll off on either end of the spectrum.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

The tweeter channel







Midrange







mid bass







and sub. Below are the EQ graphs for each respective channel after performing "auto" twice per channel.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

You can also see in the above picture the delay and other settings. I didn't tweak anything on any of them except for the sub out as I set it up as mono and the same distance for both channels and chose to use the ACR-3 as the level control of the sub as well. After all was set up and done I reinserted the output connectors to both amps to fire up REW. I have not been able to run REW as it keeps saying "stopped due to clipping" i turned volume down tried "calibrating spl" to no avail. Will try again after watching some instructional videos to see what I'm doing wrong. If someone has an idea please chime on in!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

So does it sound better after "starting over"?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

In a word, no. The highs are too bright for my ears to be honest and still feels as if it's missing mids (body) to the sound. I read in another thread that the grilles on the dash stifle the sound, gonna go and remove them and try again. If that fixes it I'll be kicking myself in the ass.

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> In a word, no. The highs are too bright for my ears to be honest and still feels as if it's missing mids (body) to the sound. I read in another thread that the grilles on the dash stifle the sound, gonna go and remove them and try again. If that fixes it I'll be kicking myself in the ass.
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


Yeah I am definitely going to open up the dash grills. I think the only option is to cut out the holes larger and wrap in speaker grill cloth. It will be tedious to make it look factory, but it's the only option IMO. Kind of makes me concerned about the door grills also, but won't be as much of an issue for the midbasses.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

It's been a thankfully beautiful day out today so the pool took some of my time today . So I just went outside a moment to remove the grilles. In the back of my head as I walked outside I thought to myself, maybe I installed the foam rings wrong and are somehow preventing correct speaker operation. Nope thankfully they're on correctly and aren't touching the surround. You can see the indentation of the grille ribs on the foam, slightly, pretty much as they should I would think to direct the sound correctly. Well gonna listen to it in a few and see if it made any difference or not. If it's markedly better time for some fabric and cut work. BRB!
















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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

On a side note, what's interesting is that I have the same "X" marks in blue/white pencil (or whatever that is) forward of both dash speakers in my car...or maybe it is a "4"?

By the way, my enclosure design was 3D printed and is in the mail. As soon as I get it I will test fit and take some pics. Of course, it's going to be some time before I can do a with/without enclosure comparison because I don't have amps yet and probably won't for a while. I'd send you my design file, but unfortunately, the GS and GB25's don't have the same dimensions and those mounting tabs throw things off a bit. I'll see if I can whip up a GS25 specific design. I've been getting the hang of Fusion 360.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Could be a Japanese"4" ! LOL,I spot those inspection marks all over cars, nice to see a human actually doing something vs a robot. Man those "adapters" for your GB25's look amazing in there! And I can see where that height would get interference with the grilles. In the close-up pictures you can see where I snapped off unneeded tabs. With a proper adapter like yours I would snap off the remaining 2 and use the 4 screw holes the speaker has. I'm really interested to hear if and how much of a difference the enclosure makes! May I ask how much they cost you to get printed and shipped? I would definitely take you up on the offer if it's doable .

To help with rattles etc when I did the install I covered the inside of the a-pillars in SoundSkin and on the mounting tabs/slides of the pillar Ava grille I took a bit of flock tape to their surfaces to make it a slightly tighter fit. When you go to put them back in I would definitely recommend it. If you can't find it I can send you some no problem. 

Looking at the entire area I can't help but wonder if a smaller form factor tweeter couldn't fit in the corner flat section that's diagonal to the speaker? In the area where the "4 or X" is. Once the grille is hollowed out and covered in grille cloth, I think that would be a great spot for a tweeter, maybe not due to it being to be relatively small. 























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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

So I just came back inside from sitting in the car a good 45 minutes listening to it, even recruited the wife to sit and listen. I think I've been sitting myself in the foot, with a shotgun no less, regarding my sound. I had her play a song she knows well, she picked Jealousy by The Pet Shop Boys (she's used it as a reference song before). She immediately said it sounded much better and much more complete. Mentioned how I toned down the over done bass the tuner guy has put in before. When listening to the song there is a part near the end where there is a crescendo of instruments before the end of the song, and to my ears it still didn't "impact me". I switched presets in the amp to one I created for her position. So I had her choose something else, this time One Republic Secrets. Ok whole different animal! I immediately had a bit of a smile on my face as I thought to myself "this is more like it", mind you this is the setting for the passenger! After that I set the preset to "all" which is set up between the headrests, and she picked Enya Only Time. Again smiling as it sounded good and wide to my ears. I then picked a track that Dean from 5 Star Stereo, had mentioned in one of his videos. The Last Rainforest by Smilk, this is a bit of a techno tune with some wood instruments in there and a lot of fast side to side transients. Found myself doing some air drum and really getting into it. I've heard this track before with the old tune and it just wasn't this good before. I think it really helped to restart fresh and go step by step with it. 


What I think I'm learning from this, in all of 45 minutes mind you, is SOURCE MATERIAL MATTERS. I have been using that freaking pet shop now song as a sort of test track and expecting to really feel that crescendo and the recording simply doesn't have it. Haven't tried the newer 2018 re master, I've been using the original recording. Now mind you I'm still not "blown away" with the sound but I think now I have set myself up with a much better baseline to work from. The tune the shop did for me is simply not as good as what I have been able to do in the last few days. And that's listening to music that I know how it sounds and my "tune" is better, not perfect but any means, but better for sure. 


I'm gonna drive around the next couple days listening to different songs and genres to see where I'm missing stuff. I still haven't gotten REW to work yet and I'm going to try and get that up and running to be able to "quantify" my changes properly. 

On a side note with the grilles off I didn't really hear much of a difference vs having them on. But looking at the speaker itself with the volume at a pretty good level I can't see the cone moving, I mean if it is I can't see it and placing my hand over it the change is minimal, this might be part of what I feel I might still be missing in the mid range. But it's sounding so much better that I don't want to go chasing wild geese. Tomorrow I'll verify and report back on that, maybe they simply don't move much?

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

The "prototype" adapter in the above pic is 6mm high where the speaker sits and steps down to 4mm where the two screws mount into the factory holes (with 1mm countersunk holes for the screws just for a finishing touch). The GB25 is 6mm high from the base of the ring to the speaker surround (GS25 is 5mm), so in total, my mount plus speaker is 12mm high or .47". That adapter you see above cost me $11.85 to get printed with shipping. Pretty reasonable. Of course, if you mess up the design, it's back to the drawing board and more money, but in the grand scheme of things, it costs $500+ for a decent 3D printer that can print designs large enough to be used for car audio so I think I am ahead of the game. I was actually just able to get photos of the new design after printing from the printing service. This one was $22.15 shipped. It actually looks like it came out nice, although I had meant to have it printed in black ABS, not white. Oh well. It'll be my test dummy. I made this one using my original adapter design but it is 5mm tall where the speaker sits and the same at 4mm where the screw mounts are. ABS is pretty strong, although at 4mm I can flex it, so I didn't want to go too much thinner at the mounting locations. I suppose I could go 4mm straight across without a step up if I needed more clearance, but I think the key is to cut larger holes in the OE speaker grills and cover with cloth. I'd like to adapt the AF grills, but the concave shape of the factory grill plate makes that pretty much impossible. Once I get the part, I can fill it with water and get an actual volume. From my calculations, it should be pretty close to .2 cuft. It could probably also be stuff with a small amount of polyfill. The walls of the enclosure are 4mm thick and the outer dimension of the cylinder is 68mm It also tapers about 2 degrees inward from top to bottom to make sure it clears some of the obstructions down in that cavity. The factory opening is 70mm, so there's 2mm of wiggle room. I was going to integrate a hole into the design for wires, but I will just drill to my liking once I get it. I will see what I can design for the GS25 once I get the bugs ironed out. It's fairly easy as long as I have the dimensions from AF's site.

Looking at your GS25's, I am wondering if the foam is collapsing too much and affecting the performance of the driver. Do you think it is contacting the surround when compressed?

Yes, I am planning on putting my GB10's exactly where you talked about. It is a really tight area to work with, but I have a rotary tool with a flex shaft and some small router bits I just got off Amazon. I think I can carve a hole into that area (carefully). The issue is it has to be accurate and fit tight enough so I can drop the tweeter down into it and maybe use a small dab or two of silicone on each side to hold it in. It's almost impossible to get your fingers under that area to use any mounting hardware for the tweeter.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> On a side note with the grilles off I didn't really hear much of a difference vs having them on. But looking at the speaker itself with the volume at a pretty good level I can't see the cone moving, I mean if it is I can't see it and placing my hand over it the change is minimal, this might be part of what I feel I might still be missing in the mid range. But it's sounding so much better that I don't want to go chasing wild geese. Tomorrow I'll verify and report back on that, maybe they simply don't move much?
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


You're probably not going to see a 2.5" midrange move much. It's moving so quickly you can't see it. Also, since you bought everything new (correct me if I am wrong), they may still need to "break in" a bit. How long have you had the system installed?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Wow that looks nice! I think that will be an amazing enclosure! I would think 4mm across would be fine as far as rigidity. The fact that the enclosure "cup"is part of that 4/6 mm adds a great amount of strength, like a rib in a flat piece provides strength against it bending. Yes those AF grilles are gorgeous! I wonder if making the baffles thicker instead of thinner would allow you to raise the AF grille high enough to have it surrounded by the factory grille, sort of inlaid into the factory piece. 

As to your question of the factory grille pressing the foam into the surround, I don't think so as the foam is only slightly indented and being that those foam rings are the ones that AF includes with the speaker I would hope/expect that they would be separated from the surrounds. Either way I think I am going to carve out the factory grille to allow an unobstructed path for the sound to come through (other than grille cloth of course). 


When you placed you beautiful GS10 up in that corner I mentioned,I think mine will fit in there quite nicely as if I recall it's a little smaller. Might be a great way to really disappear the speakers in the car and have it completely stealth. Even if I do have to replace my a pillars, I think that would be worth it. 

I bought and installed everything myself back in November. I would expect them all to be broken in by now unless there is a procedure to it that I should have followed. The sub itself I got about a month later in December. I guess your right that I wouldn't see it move but people always mention how much excursion (4mm) the GS/GB 25 have I would have thought I could see it a bit at least. I mean I know it's working cuz the speaker polarity pop reads etc. 

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

GS10 and GB10's have the same exact dimensions. 44mm (1.73"). I'll try cutting into my dash this week. I figured if I mess it up, it'll be hidden. I thought about surface mounting them to the grill, but as I said, the grill is curved in that area and it's not going to look clean. There would need to be a hole cut in the dash either way. The other option that may work better so that one wouldn't have to worry about cutting out an exact hole in a tight workspace would be to get a piece of thin ABS or acrylic and make a plate that could be glued on top of that area. This way you can drill an exact sized hole into the plate for the tweeter. It may even need a small notch for the mounting terminals as they stick out a little bit. From what I've read, the closer you can get the components to the windshield, the better. I also debated whether or not to remove the grills off the tweeters once installed under there, but my only worry is having the silk dome get damaged.

4mm excursion is just over 1/8". At the crossover points, you should have those mids, as I said, you'd probably have to squint pretty hard to see them move.


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> So I just came back inside from sitting in the car a good 45 minutes listening to it, even recruited the wife to sit and listen... What I think I'm learning from this, in all of 45 minutes mind you, is SOURCE MATERIAL MATTERS.



Try hooking your media player directly into your DSP. The factory aux processing seems to chop the sound up something mean.


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Try leaving a gap between your speakers crossover points. Instead of crossing your mid basses at 80-400 and your mids at 400-4k, leave a gap between them so you've got 2 drivers playing quieter summing up to the correct intensity. For example you could cross your doors 80-300 and the mids 400-4k. If 400 is your desired lower cutoff for a speaker the speaker playing below can be crossed at 75% of that. 400*.75=300. If you want to cross the top of a driver at 300, multiply the frequency by 4/3. 300* 4/3 = 400. Normally you'd have some weird phasing issues in inbetween the crossovers, but the LR24db slope, aka LR 4th order will work magic and make it sound lovely.


For example you could run your sub to 80hz, your doors 105-300, mids 400-3k, and 4k-20k tweeters. The LR24 will take care of the rest. You're definitely getting some unnecessary combs crossing two drivers at the same frequency.

Check out this post (really read all of these posts) on the Audiofrog forums. Time Alignment Part Three: Delays and Crossovers for Tweeter...


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

opekone said:


> Try hooking your media player directly into your DSP. The factory aux processing seems to chop the sound up something mean.
> 
> That was actually the USB input, USB stick withe the pink noise file on it. I ran an RCA to 1/8" wire to a spare phone and the pink noise was much flatter on the RTA. See photos below.





opekone said:


> Try leaving a gap between your speakers crossover points. Instead of crossing your mid basses at 80-400 and your mids at 400-4k, leave a gap between them so you've got 2 drivers playing quieter summing up to the correct intensity. For example you could cross your doors 80-300 and the mids 400-4k. If 400 is your desired lower cutoff for a speaker the speaker playing below can be crossed at 75% of that. 400*.75=300. If you want to cross the top of a driver at 300, multiply the frequency by 4/3. 300* 4/3 = 400. Normally you'd have some weird phasing issues in inbetween the crossovers, but the LR24db slope, aka LR 4th order will work magic and make it sound lovely.
> 
> 
> For example you could run your sub to 80hz, your doors 105-300, mids 400-3k, and 4k-20k tweeters. The LR24 will take care of the rest. You're definitely getting some unnecessary combs crossing two drivers at the same frequency.
> ...


 I just finished setting up the crossovers as recommended and i can't say I hear much of a difference right now. Limited time to fuss around today so just listened to a couple tracks. I will say it is a pretty big difference on the pink noise graph between the stock head unit via the USB stick and the spare phone over the 1/8" to rca cable. I was using an old Nexus 5 since it has a headphone jack still, my daily and back up phones don't have a headphone jack.Right now I have the 4 presets as follows; 1=driver seat 2=pass seat 3=between the front seats and 4=the aux jack from the spare phone and timing set to drivers seat. Please note: the Audio Control software maintains the crossover settings the same for all presets no matter what you do. Everything else from input selection to EQ settings do change as per preset selection. I feel its a shame to only use 2 channels of the LC6-1200, Maybe I'll switch it for a mono amp for the sub as I'm not using the rear channels.Even if I was using the rear channels, I'd still be running only 4 of the 6 channels that amp has!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

At times I feel like trying out eliminating the DSP processing all together and use the LC6-1200 for the front 3 way setup and a mono amp just to see how it sounds without DSP. That amp has enough settings to allow a tri amp setup for the front and output to a sub amp. I will report back tomorrow after my drive into work to see how the suggested crossover settings worked out @opekone !


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> GS10 and GB10's have the same exact dimensions. 44mm (1.73"). I'll try cutting into my dash this week. I figured if I mess it up, it'll be hidden. I thought about surface mounting them to the grill, but as I said, the grill is curved in that area and it's not going to look clean. There would need to be a hole cut in the dash either way. The other option that may work better so that one wouldn't have to worry about cutting out an exact hole in a tight workspace would be to get a piece of thin ABS or acrylic and make a plate that could be glued on top of that area. This way you can drill an exact sized hole into the plate for the tweeter. It may even need a small notch for the mounting terminals as they stick out a little bit. From what I've read, the closer you can get the components to the windshield, the better. I also debated whether or not to remove the grills off the tweeters once installed under there, but my only worry is having the silk dome get damaged.
> 
> 4mm excursion is just over 1/8". At the crossover points, you should have those mids, as I said, you'd probably have to squint pretty hard to see them move.



Really interested as to how that looks/works! Thought about a "plate" of sorts to mount both drivers into. even if it does seem to have a slight angle to it.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

pink noise coming through the phones headset output into the amp via 1/8" to rca cable







tweeter after running auto twice









same for the mid-range









mid-bass









and finally the sub
SOOO much flatter than the USB stick through the stock head unit


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

In the last two pics the slider at 250 is a bigger size than the others. Is it a different Q adjustment than the others or something else such as the last slider adjusted, etc? Just curious, the software looks nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

As far as i can tell it is the last slider adjusted. There is no mention about adjusting "Q" anywhere that I have seen. The software is simple and clean. On the distance measurements it rounds the number up for example my left tweeter is 39.25 away ad it changes it to 39.3. Amazing how much flatter the phone output via the RCA adapter is compared to the stock head unit with either the USB or Bluetooth. And that's off a phone that is now 7 years old (loved that phone)!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Look what came in the mail today...

So, it fits perfectly on the passenger side. On the driver's side, however, there is an issue. Apparently, the plastic obstruction down in that cavity was a little deceiving when I was taking measurements and its causing an issue with fitment on that side. So my options are: 1. Scrub the enclosure idea and just go with IB dash adapters. 2. Redesign the enclosure so I have a driver and passenger side different models. 3. Trim the plastic away down there and make it fit. I believe the plastic it is hitting is part of the air duct to the AC/Heater vent to the left of the steering wheel. What I don't know is the amount of plastic I can shave off before I penetrate the duct and make a hole in it. I could very well trim it and then patch it up with duct tape. Not ideal, but it'd work. I could also patch it with fiberglass cloth and resin. I don't really want to redesign the part so I'm down to options 1 and 3.

Anyway, these hold almost a cup of water (probably between .8-.9 cups), which is right at .2 liters. Looks like my internal measurements were accurate at least.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

How about 4, shave a bit off of the bottom of the enclosure and seal it back up? Like an angle cut to allow clearance to the plastic beneath. Can't imagine that tiny bit of volume differential makes a difference. Or am I wrong?

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I guess I could do that too. I'll go out and do a little bit more R&D tomorrow. I got some speaker cloth in the mail today so I think I am going to start hacking away at one of my speaker grills also. I need a better idea of how much clearance there is for tweeters under there.

Did you make any more progress?

Questions about your sub enclosure. Does it sit on top of the factory trunk mat in there? Not the rubber mat, but the carpeted plate in there that pulls out. Once that sub is in there, is it hard to get that plate out to get to the spare tire?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

The sub sits on the actual metal of the trunk, have to eliminate the right side section of foam and cut the carpet and rubber liner. Was very very apprehensive of doing that didn't want it to look hacked up. But I think it came out beautifully imo. I'm my case since I applied SoundSkin to much of that area it was a tighter fit then it would have been without it, no complaints thigh, snug as a bug in a rug. 

As far as progress I've been doing some reading and watching a couple videos and think I've got a way to use my mic etc with REW. Contemplating buying the "audiotools" app and use a tablet, might be easier with the same apparent functionality. Been driving around this week with the grilles removed thinking about how your enclosures would look in there, LOL. 

I think your design is really smart and will definitely make the speakers sing in there. 

Since I'm not using my rear channels (might not be in the future either) I'm tossing around the idea of getting a mono amp for the sub and selling the LC6 maybe an LC1 800 or if I go the cheap route there are a few micro amps at 500 or so watts that I think would fit the sub also. I hope to be able to sit and do some actual tuning soon, getting tired of not having it sound right to me and if I'm right and I've got a better idea of how to use the software I'll be on that path. If not maybe someone can to remote tuning! Not sure if that's even possible but I'll try if it gets me a good result. 



Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Oh and yes you can easily access the spare by lifting the carpet and foam just like if nothing had ever been done there. In my case due to the circumference of the sub mount I had to put in a spacer that normally wouldn't need to be there and the grille sits further out of the enclosure than it should. I have to slightly bent the carpet (it's got a hard plastic honeycomb panel adhered to it) to get to the spare but no complaints at all about it. I'll shoot you a picture of it with the carpet removed as that's how I have it right now while I fiddle with things. 

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Ok, I like that enclosure, but there is a thread on nasioc.com for an enclosure being made for the 2015+ WRX.






2015+ Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX/STi Perfect Fit Subwoofer Enclosure Prototype Build - NASIOC


2015+ Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX/STi Perfect Fit Subwoofer Enclosure Prototype Build Car Audio, Video & Security



forums.nasioc.com





I'll have to see what that one looks like when it's ready. Of course, if it's not ready soon enough, the Wicked Audio one it'll be.

I was thinking about going with the Audiocontrol SA-4100i and use an iPad for measurements.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

What about option 5? Use a heat gun or hair dryer and heat the duct some and then push the enclosure down to try to make some room in the ducting. That may not be an option if there is some structure on the duct. In that case, I was thinking option 4 too when I was reading.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I think I will try that (heat gun). Good call.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

From my experiences with the g40 and gb25. They need to be in enclosures. THX,put your driver in a pvc pipe endcap. It seriously doesn't need to be any bigger.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Jscoyne2 said:


> From my experiences with the g40 and gb25. They need to be in enclosures. THX,put your driver in a pvc pipe endcap. It seriously doesn't need to be any bigger.


 Funny, I was thinking about exactly that myself. Saw that on another thread in this forum a bit ago and upon seeing the gorgeous enclosure Frequent whipped up, attention was naturally drawn to it. You mention about them needing enclosures, is that for actual output from the speaker or SQ or both? Frequent, yes I saw that other thread too, but like a few had mentioned kinda late in the game to come out with something. Although from what I did read he does make a quality product. I had already placed the order for mine like a day or two before I saw the thread, but tbh I'm super happy with mine. Really does sound great in there and the way its thought out, if I desire more output just get another for the left!














Frequent here are the pics as mentioned, when I get home from work tonight i'll send one with the foam in place as I have it in the house.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> Audiocontrol SA-4100i


 Its frustrating the lack of hardware and software options on Android. I'm not an Apple fan and don't have any of their devices but damn its crickets over here as far as options!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> Its frustrating the lack of hardware and software options on Android. I'm not an Apple fan and don't have any of their devices but damn its crickets over here as far as options!


Oh yeah, I noticed that. I am an Android guy also when it comes to cell phones, but I have always had company-provided iPads for work and I actually just bought my work iPad because we updated to the Air 3 (the "old" one's were 2's). Mine was only about a year old so I decided to buy it versus give it back. $135. I couldn't beat it even if I only use it to toss it to the kids in the backseat to keep them quiet on road trips, but I could very well use it as an RTA.


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## imickey503 (Dec 16, 2015)

THX0849 said:


> Its frustrating the lack of hardware and software options on Android. I'm not an Apple fan and don't have any of their devices but damn its crickets over here as far as options!



What are you trying to do with your Android device. I can halp.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Flyer, for $135 you simply can't pass that up. I would have done the same thing man. 

Imickey503, I was going to use audio tools in lieu of using REW. Was in the fence about buying audio tools or not, but if I can't get REW up and running this weekend I'll be purchasing it. Did you have any suggestions?

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

More eye "candy"...

I went to town on the sacrificial OE speaker grill. If you want a good set of rotary tool 1/8" router bits, I got a set on Amazon for like $12. They cut through plastic like a hot knife through butter. I used a flex-shaft attachment like a pencil. It worked well. Excuse the poor excuse for a circle around the GB25. I may clean that up a bit, but it's going to be covered in speaker cloth so I wasn't concerned about how perfect it was.

I could not get in that cavity with a heat gun. There isn't enough clearance between the dash and windshield to get the right angle on it so I gradually trimmed away at the piece in question with the router bit. Just as I thought, it was just excess plastic and not part of the ductwork. It helped, but I still have to press down on the enclosure while I screw it in. Ideally, I should do a redesign and shorten it up by about 3mm and I could probably get rid of the 2-degree taper. I don't think that'd change the volume significantly if anything at all. 

I took the tweeter grill off the GB10 so I could see what the clearance is like on the OE grill. To my surprise, there is no clearance to flush mount the tweeter back there. That pic is without the actual tweeter so add another 3mm or so to that. The tweeter is going to stick up over the hole in the grill that I made. I think I will try my CAD skills (or lack thereof) to make a mount for the tweeters that will recess them about 1/4". I will just cut the hole larger than the tweeter.

One thing I didn't realize until now is that 3D printed parts are sort of porous. When I poured water into this enclosure, it was slowly dripping out the bottom. If I redesign and get two new ones printed, I will have them increase the "infill" to make them a little more solid.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

OMG drooling as to how nice that is coming out!!!! With the grille cloth over that you'll never know what the cut out looked like anyways.Awesome job brother! When i got home I snapped a pic of the foam for the trunk in place. Hope it helps to answer your question about the enclosure.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Wow, that sub is a nice fit. I am impressed.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> Wow, that sub is a nice fit. I am impressed.


LOL thanks I truly was impressed with how good it looked once in there. Was very apprehensive to buy and install it as I was concerned it would look cheap. Very happy with it's sound and looks, good package and it lets me get to the spare and amps easily. All round a good decision imo. 

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Started on the tweeter mount design. Currently in 2D format, but I'll start extruding it tomorrow. Basically I'm going to remove the dash material colored in red and design a tweeter cup (example I found on eBay attached) that will recess the tweeter just a bit so I have more clearance on the grill. I'll have to take a look at the hardware that came with the tweeters tomorrow. Not sure if I am going to incorporate the supplied hardware or just put a screw through the bottom of the housing to secure the tweeter. I will need to make room for wiring also.


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## imickey503 (Dec 16, 2015)

THX0849 said:


> Imickey503, I was going to use audio tools in lieu of using REW. Was in the fence about buying audio tools or not, but if I can't get REW up and running this weekend I'll be purchasing it. Did you have any suggestions?
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


If your going to use REAL time Audio sampling? Unless you have some Octocore CPU in your Android and a very current CPU, Real time audio sampling with REW is going be very slow and not real time. 

Windows XP would work. 

More Curry





Slightly LESS Curry. 







I own Audiotools. And I got to say, even on an Older Samsung s3? Its Fast. Real time. And very accurate. 
I still have issues with turning of the Auto Mic gain on older Android Operating systems and hardware, but it works quite well. 

ZTE Phone? Can't turn off the auto gain that I have found. 
Samsung? On some PRO tabs. 
LG? Hit and miss. 

REW on is still going to be superior on any OLD laptop. But the above works to run windows on Android, but I still don't think you can turn off the Auto Gain that way if you emulate it. Get what one a cracked screen for $20-30 bucks that still shows a display, throw on the software, and be done with it. Or use RDP from Android, and you can get real time use of the broken laptops hardware and inputs and display it on your tablet, phone, or chromebook etc. 

Audiotool has a setting for you to calibrate the Microphone to compensate for the Auto gain if that is there and Microphone response curves. 


Redirecting to Google Groups



Its the X curve that lets you put in your own Microphone profiles. Use "A weight" setting or most comon calibrations that mimic the ear response. 

Looking at the amount of CRAP you have to do to use REW on ANDROID? 
Go with Audiotool. The LIMBO software is just not R.C. Production ready IMO. If you got $20 bucks they have Dell D610-20's that have super quiet On board Audio stages that work a treat and have plenty of power under windows 7 to work with REW. Great for when you need an old PC. And parts are everywhere as a very low budget option. 

Sorry I was not more help. 
But I tried it on some spare hardware I had, and I could not get it to work properly. 

GO with Audiotool for android.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

From Andy, the designer himself. My mistake on gb40 needing enclosure.

"
A few notes about these drivers and also about crossover recommendations:

1. All of these things have been designed to work together in systems. The sensitivity of the drivers has been scaled using all sorts of tools so that when they are used with the same amp and a passive network, they all play at about the same level. The tweeter is design with HIGHER SENSITIVITY to provide a wide range of adjustment. The PRIMARY use of the 4" is in a 3-way system with the 6" and either of the tweeters.

2. The secondary use of the 4" is in the doors of a BMW. The depth has been designed to fit that space.

*3. These are NOT "widebanders". Rather than compromising sensitivity and power handling to extend the bass and the high frequencies in the on axis response, we have opted for higher power handling and higher efficiency that you'll find with "widebanders". These are midrange drivers. The design goal was fllat response and low distortion in the passband. Reducing the resonance requires a looser suspension or a heavier moving mass. That reduces sensitivity. I do recommend crossing above resonance, but remember the crossover frequency is the -3dB point or the -6dB point. -3dB is half power and -6dB is 1/4 power. Run the distortion test signal through a 110Hz 4th order filter and check out the distortion again. I think you'll find that under those circumstances, that crossover is still OK. In a 3-way, there's no reason to cross that low.*

4. All of these drivers include a cooper cap on the polepiece to reduce inductance and the distortion that's caused by changing inductance as the coil moves in and out over the polepiece. The GB60 includes an additional shorting ring because that speaker will always be used close to it's resonance and will often be using much of it's excursion potential.

5. The GB40 and the GB25 also include a bucking magnet on top of the copper ring. That bucking magnet focuses the energy in the gap and provides higher sensitivity.

6. The GB 40 is designed for use in a door or dash (IB). For A-pillars, we have the GB25. It's designed so that it can be used in a box as small as 2" x 2" x 2" and still play pretty flat to about 200Hz. There are no other midrange drivers that I know of designed specifically for this application. Most of the mids I see people putting in A-Pillars are designed for IB and often produce a high-Q response in the A-Pillar application. "

*








Audiofrog GB25 or GB40


For anyone with experience with these mids, what’s the difference? How would u know which to use? One plays higher/lower frequencies? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




www.diymobileaudio.com




*


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I've heard the gb25 with and without an enclosure. I think you should highly consider making one for it.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Progress... 

This didn't take much time at all. There are still some finishing touches that need to be added. I have to sort through the hardware that came with the GB10's and measure screws to make sure the screw hole at the bottom is the right size. I cut a notch out at the bottom attaching the wires and tightening the set screws. I will also need to go to True Value today and R&D adequate mounting screws so I can model in some mounting holes on both sides of the flange. I'll probably just go with one on each side.

This "cup" is the exact size of the GB/GS10 tweeter (plus .5mm). So 44.5mm radius by 20.5mm deep. I recessed the tweeter 4mm into the mount so I get more clearance between the tweeter grill and the factory speaker grill. I haven't decided yet whether I want to use a rubber grommet at the bottom of the cup between the tweeter and the housing rather than have it sitting right on the plastic after being tightened down with mounting screw, but that may be overkill. Thoughts?

Again, I don't have a 3D printer so I need to send my design out to get printed. I plan on finishing this today and placing my order for a prototype. Then I can start cutting out material.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Just for the heck of it picked up a couple 2" schedule 40 PVC end caps ($1.14ea)to try and fit in the GS 25. Have to grind the sidewall where the speaker terminal pad is to allow clearance for the connectors. Otherwise perfect fit and doesn't seem to hit the drivers side duct work beneath. Figure I can hot glue the cup to the back of the speaker basket as that area isn't being used any how. Tomorrow I'll grind down the cap as I don't have one here at home. Any thoughts on that idea? 

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> Just for the heck of it picked up a couple 2" schedule 40 PVC end caps ($1.14ea)to try and fit in the GS 25. Have to grind the sidewall where the speaker terminal pad is to allow clearance for the connectors. Otherwise perfect fit and doesn't seem to hit the drivers side duct work beneath. Figure I can hot glue the cup to the back of the speaker basket as that area isn't being used any how. Tomorrow I'll grind down the cap as I don't have one here at home. Any thoughts on that idea?
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


You can do that or if you want something cleaner, I did a GS25 mount/enclosure today. I was able to work off my design and change the dimensions a little bit. Of course, once you break off your mounting tabs, you are "committed" to ring mounting the driver so choose wisely. This is also right around .2 liters (actually .195xxx, but it's close). I did not incorporate speaker mount holes because I was not sure how you wanted to mount them, but that'd leave it up to you to drill your own holes. You'd also have to drill your own hole for the wire. The design file is yours to do what you want with it. I can email it to you because it won't allow me to attach it here. You'd just have to find someone to print it. I used www.treatstock.com to find someone to print it. It will probably run you $20 each with shipping. I shortened up the cup a little from my original design because of the plastic down in the driver's side hole (passenger side is no issue). You may still have to trim some plastic with a Dremel on the driver's side.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar! That you would do that is awesome thank you,I'll pm you my email.It just simply looks so amazing the design you came up with. From what I've read the enclosure seems to be important to these speakers to get the most out of them. Would've never thought that the case with such a small speaker and pretty stiff suspension. Couldn't get done this weekend what I had hoped for the car as the "honey-do" list was decent but no complaint, shes awesome and very supportive and they needed to get done anyways. Today I'll grind down thee caps to see how that would go, but I will definitely put to use the effort you put in to designing an enclosure for "me". Thank you again so much!!!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

So this is what it looks like in the cap once it's been clearanced. Not bad for a buck! 























Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Wow, those actually look like they fit very well. How are you holding them onto the speaker?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> Wow, those actually look like they fit very well. How are you holding them onto the speaker?


That's what I'm trying to figure out, thought about hot glue but not sure it'll stay hot enough to set the speaker in place. Silicone is an option but I've heard it's not good for speakers. Not sure about that to be honest though. 

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I sunk some heat inserts into my prototype today. Turned out pretty snazzy. I ordered these inserts from McMaster-Carr. These will take an M4 sized machine screw.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> I sunk some heat inserts into my prototype today. Turned out pretty snazzy. I ordered these inserts from McMaster-Carr. These will take an M4 sized machine screw.


That look sweet A F!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I never got around to using the PVC caps I had originally intended to use. Wasn't comfortable with gluing or "caulking" the speaker to the cap.And once I thought about it the enclosure would be way too small.Once the speaker is actually in there its almost no volume.I was back and forth with fellow member "frequentflyer" as he was designing and enclosure for his GB25's. 3d printed beauties I must admit! He was amazing enough to create an enclosure for my GS25's as they have a completely different mount to the GB. Turns out a good friend of mine has a 3d printer and he whipped up a proof of concept for me and based on that initial success, we decided to do a proper set once i decided to go forward. I was having a really hard time deciding what to do as far as mounting the speaker to the enclosure. The 4 holes in the basket are tiny at 1/8" (3.1mm)and there really isn't enough clearance between the side of the cup and the screw hole to get a nut on it. Frequent suggested drilling out the hole a bit to 4.5mm and then inserting heat inserts to secure them.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

The above were the proof of concept print my buddy made. To be honest I was afraid of drilling so close to the surround and puss--- out on drilling the slightly larger hole into the basket. Below you can see how close it is and I really didn't trust myself to drill it.







My buddy decided to print up a pair even though I hadn't decided on what to do and although not perfect I think they'll do just fine for me.







Once in the opening (already had carved out the needed plastic for clearance) the little things looked right at home!







Now how to mount them....


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Some would call it a "rig" and others would call it what I call it, Creative! I used the foam ring that was on the top of the speaker to seal it to the grille and installed it on the bottom of the basket ring as a seal and mated to the enclosure perfectly!














I then drilled a hole in the side of the cup and ran my wires. Used a set of bullet connectors to be able to easily remove if and when needed.







Then on to installing them. When I attempted to line up the holes on the tabs on the speaker to the holes in the enclosure one lined up perfectly and the other was just clear enough to allow the screw to grab the edge of the other tab and mount the whole thing snug! Thank God I hadn't removed the tabs in haste! Check it out!














It is fully secured using the factory location and holes. I am going to listen to it before making a call as to an improvement to the sound for a few days I think. The suspension on these is tight normally and now it seems downright stiff to me. Thank you again Frequent, wouldn't have been possible without you!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Looking good! I can't wait to see if it made a difference.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Verdict still out on an audible improvement for the enclosure but on a side note I'm modifying my grilles. Hopefully won't have to actually cut them for now,I took an angle grinder with a team cookie and getting down the ribs best I could. Now for the tedious job of cleaning out the holes.


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Frequentflyer said:


> That's a nice enclosure!





THX0849 said:


> More than worth the money I spent, $359 plus shipping


Haven't read everything here as I got to get up and start to hit some work this morning (other side of the world! lol) but I thought the same thing. That is a few coins for that box; but man I would not want to do that job! Kudos to the guys if it fits well and doesn't (anti-jinx) have any small gaps that rattle away (heard of that nasty bastard before from a dudes DIY effort in his Scooby hatch I think). That is a really well made box...dam! Will continue reading and hope to find the choice to au revoir the OEM Hu later today LMAO...nah whichever way you do it is all good!
Peace


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> Verdict still out on an audible improvement for the enclosure but on a side note I'm modifying my grilles. Hopefully won't have to actually cut them for now,I took an angle grinder with a team cookie and getting down the ribs best I could. Now for the tedious job of cleaning out the holes.


I ordered some 3M Super 77 off Amazon, which should get delivered tomorrow so I trying wrapping one of my speaker grills soon. I think I trim too much out of the driver side one saw use that one as a guinea pig. I ordered two brand new speaker grills off Amazon for about $11 a piece so I have two new ones to work with if I screw them up. I'm thinking some hot glue and contact cement will work fine.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Might be a little hard to tell but it is right in the center of the opening. Which means the speaker was partially blocked before as the tab mount is "off center" compared to the factory speaker. Don't know how I made that mistake


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> I ordered some 3M Super 77 off Amazon, which should get delivered tomorrow so I trying wrapping one of my speaker grills soon. I think I trim too much out of the driver side one saw use that one as a guinea pig. I ordered two brand new speaker grills off Amazon for about $11 a piece so I have two new ones to work with if I screw them up. I'm thinking some hot glue and contact cement will work fine.


HOT GLUE AND THE 3M WILL DO FINE, USED THEM PLENTY ON OTHER PROJECTS


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Wow....an interesting read guys. Cheers for chronicling every single step you took...keep at it and enjoy


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I honestly have not set aside the time to get my mic and REW running correctly to try and tune my DSP system. As I have always felt this setup is missing "body or soul" sounding empty (as well as a bunch of other people who have listened to it) I tried something off the wall. I've got a component set of infinity kappa 6809's sitting in a box doing nothing so I decided to "downgrade" to try something out. 

As I've mentioned before I've got a very underutilized lc6.1200 only driving my sub. So I switched gears and went "dumb" instead of active. Sending the front and rear stock head unit outputs to the LC 6.1200 high level inputs (same method I had on the D6.1200) only difference between the two setups is that on the D6 I was only using the front HU outputs as I don't have a way to properly run the rear doors from the DSP.. 

From there I followed the sample diagram in the LC owners guide. Front, rear and sub from the one amp. Channels 1-2 front 3-4 rear and 5-6 bridged mono. I took the unused passive crossovers from the infinity's to run the front in a 2 way setup using the GS60 and GS10 (not using the GS25's at all). The long silent rear coaxials are now alive allowing fader if I want it. And the sub stays the way it has been (really like the way it sounds).

O. M. G. What a freaking difference! Sounds so incredibly better I literally found myself scratching my head. There is "full" sound again, body, soul whatever you wanna call it, it's there now. Loaded up a bunch of tracks from my library and every single song sounded the way it should. I was sitting in the driveway cranking the system up smiling and enjoying my car audio for the first time since I put this whole system together. 

It sucks that taking 3 steps back as far as setup and equipment is resulting in a better sound. But what it really means to me is I've got something fundamentally wrong in my other setup. Crossover points, phase, level, and lastly EQ all are going to get a once over. I cannot accept that a 3 way setup so actively controlled, sounds worse (much worse) that an old school passive 2 way passive setup. 

Currently I'm looking to get a speaker polarity checker to verify that as I know if they aren't right it'll ruin the sound for sure. Can't seem to get one delivered this month as everywhere I look it's coming from China and late June-July is common ETA (is anything made in this f---ing country anymore). If someone has one for sale please PM me. I even took advantage of the fact that parts express had the Dayton 408 in clearance stock again and ordered one (70 bucks is a safe gamble).

I don't get how I can have something out of phase as far as the wiring or speakers since it sounds incredibly good right now with the passive setup. But I guess maybe there is something in the DSP amp that is wrong wether it's setup or something actually wrong with it I will determine. Wish me luck! LOL

Now to find one of those polarity testers......


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I decided to reach out to Audio Frog directly for advise/guidance on crossover points etc on my setup, as I just wanted to start all over from step 1 in an effort to get my sound squared away. Call tech support number on the top of the web page it was quickly answered with " thank you for calling Audio Frog, my name is Andy, how can I help you". I half paused when the guy said his name was Andy but I proceeded with my questions and asked for recommendation-s based on what is happening right now. He gave me his recommended crossover points, sub at 60hz mid-bass from 80-350 mid-range from 350-3500 and tweeter from 3500-20k all with 24 db LR slopes. Thanked the guy and half jokingly asked " you wouldn't happen to be Andy Wehmeyer?" surprisingly he said YES! I was so thrown back at him answering his own help line! Its awesome to see people who actually support their product to such a degree. He went on to explain that he does this and simply loves what he and his friends have done so they want to get the feedback form their customers. AMAZING!. Any way he asked me what was up and what the problems were, explained my setup to him and upon asking what kind of car I has he immediately began explaining that my car has an "all pass" filter built into the factory head unit that i will not really be able to bypass. Told me to go into the DSP and remove all timing delays, all EQ's and set the x-over points he recommended. Then sit in the car a listen to music I'm familiar with and try reversing polarity on individual speakers to get the sound the way it "should" and that might be a couple speakers and possibly even both of the same types depending on the stock filter. Then he advised me once you've got that set, then and only then go to your EQ and curve it how I feel it sounds best. Of course he mentioned to get his microphone setup but that due to supply delays they wont be available for a week or two. Also of course pointed to the article on the website on how to setup as a guide on my goal. Such a normal guy to talk to, a real pleasure I must admit.We spoke about car stereo and music in general a bit and then I thanked him for all his support and guidance and again thanked him for such dedication to the company he founded. Anyways of course I will be following his instructions and recommendations this weekend. Now if the rain Gods would bless South Florida with a pause I can get out there and mess around a bit. I temporarily installed the Dayton 408 to try out and I hear no difference what so ever and actually really really prefer the software and added features in it as far as x-over slopes and types, ability to load curve files etc compared to the AC software. Really bummed I didn't get the USB adapter when it was available ( out of stock now ).I am looking into buying/trading for a decent mono amp to replace my D6-1200 and power my P3 better ( its a 500 rms 100 peak sub and I'm at 400 when bridged mono from the AC ). I'll see what I can do as far as as setup as I'm off Monday for a change. I am thinking about replacing the 18 ga Speedwire I'm using for the front channels right now with some 14 ga monoprice wire as I'm planning on getting a spool anyways for my patio speakers to finally go up! That will also help to clean up my wiring on my amp board and make that look more proper. Also picked up some printable heat shrink tubing that I can use in my Dymo label maker to pretty things up once I've settled on amps and location etc. Any ideas or recommendations as always are welcome and I'll keep posting whatever progress I have. Thanks for reading the book above,LOL!!!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> I decided to reach out to Audio Frog directly for advise/guidance on crossover points etc on my setup, as I just wanted to start all over from step 1 in an effort to get my sound squared away. Call tech support number on the top of the web page it was quickly answered with " thank you for calling Audio Frog, my name is Andy, how can I help you". I half paused when the guy said his name was Andy but I proceeded with my questions and asked for recommendation-s based on what is happening right now. He gave me his recommended crossover points, sub at 60hz mid-bass from 80-350 mid-range from 350-3500 and tweeter from 3500-20k all with 24 db LR slopes. Thanked the guy and half jokingly asked " you wouldn't happen to be Andy Wehmeyer?" surprisingly he said YES! I was so thrown back at him answering his own help line! Its awesome to see people who actually support their product to such a degree. He went on to explain that he does this and simply loves what he and his friends have done so they want to get the feedback form their customers. AMAZING!. Any way he asked me what was up and what the problems were, explained my setup to him and upon asking what kind of car I has he immediately began explaining that my car has an "all pass" filter built into the factory head unit that i will not really be able to bypass. Told me to go into the DSP and remove all timing delays, all EQ's and set the x-over points he recommended. Then sit in the car a listen to music I'm familiar with and try reversing polarity on individual speakers to get the sound the way it "should" and that might be a couple speakers and possibly even both of the same types depending on the stock filter. Then he advised me once you've got that set, then and only then go to your EQ and curve it how I feel it sounds best. Of course he mentioned to get his microphone setup but that due to supply delays they wont be available for a week or two. Also of course pointed to the article on the website on how to setup as a guide on my goal. Such a normal guy to talk to, a real pleasure I must admit.We spoke about car stereo and music in general a bit and then I thanked him for all his support and guidance and again thanked him for such dedication to the company he founded. Anyways of course I will be following his instructions and recommendations this weekend. Now if the rain Gods would bless South Florida with a pause I can get out there and mess around a bit. I temporarily installed the Dayton 408 to try out and I hear no difference what so ever and actually really really prefer the software and added features in it as far as x-over slopes and types, ability to load curve files etc compared to the AC software. Really bummed I didn't get the USB adapter when it was available ( out of stock now ).I am looking into buying/trading for a decent mono amp to replace my D6-1200 and power my P3 better ( its a 500 rms 100 peak sub and I'm at 400 when bridged mono from the AC ). I'll see what I can do as far as as setup as I'm off Monday for a change. I am thinking about replacing the 18 ga Speedwire I'm using for the front channels right now with some 14 ga monoprice wire as I'm planning on getting a spool anyways for my patio speakers to finally go up! That will also help to clean up my wiring on my amp board and make that look more proper. Also picked up some printable heat shrink tubing that I can use in my Dymo label maker to pretty things up once I've settled on amps and location etc. Any ideas or recommendations as always are welcome and I'll keep posting whatever progress I have. Thanks for reading the book above,LOL!!!


Ok, so what does he mean exactly that the headunit has an all-pass filter that cannot be bypassed? Is this good or bad?


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> Ok, so what does he mean exactly that the headunit has an all-pass filter that cannot be bypassed? Is this good or bad?


That's not good. I posted a reply in my build thread with a video that shows how allpass filters affect phasing.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Cool. I'll give it a watch.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

What it means based on our conversation is that the factory unit puts a speaker out of phase on purpose in a certain frequency range. I can say that when i reversed my left mid-bass it made a HUGE difference, brought the body back to the music. He went on the suggest replacing the head unit as the only "easy" way to get around the problem. That's what I've been trying to avoid but it seems like the way I'm going to "have" to go. Down the rabbit hole we go!. I've considered both an Alpine and a Kenwood/Excelon unit to replace the head unit. CARAV makes a kit for 9-10" radios that seems attractive to me as in my case the screen on a normal double din is no larger ( even possibly smaller ) than the stock screen is. Definitely don't want to go smaller that for sure. The 2019 has a 7" screen for the base unit anyways, I believe the older years are 6.2".


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

WRX




click the link to see what I mean


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> What it means based on our conversation is that the factory unit puts a speaker out of phase on purpose in a certain frequency range. I can say that when i reversed my left mid-bass it made a HUGE difference, brought the body back to the music. He went on the suggest replacing the head unit as the only "easy" way to get around the problem. That's what I've been trying to avoid but it seems like the way I'm going to "have" to go. Down the rabbit hole we go!. I've considered both an Alpine and a Kenwood/Excelon unit to replace the head unit. CARAV makes a kit for 9-10" radios that seems attractive to me as in my case the screen on a normal double din is no larger ( even possibly smaller ) than the stock screen is. Definitely don't want to go smaller that for sure. The 2019 has a 7" screen for the base unit anyways, I believe the older years are 6.2".


Ugh.... I was trying to avoid replacing the factory HU. Seems like a nightmare and a lot of added cost, but if it's absolutely necessary, I guess it's a must. 

I will read up on this all-pass stuff and see if the Helix can take care of it.


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

The thing is, if you replace the factory HU you will not get as high quality of a DAC or as high quality of an output signal compared to a nice HiFi player or your current smartphone + a quality external DAC. If you really want the luxury and convenience of the stereo controls on the dash and in the steering wheel, well then you know your solution.

But, I was able to retain steering wheel controls while using my phone as a DAP, even when it's outputting bit for bit into my DAC. YMMV though.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Well I did get the HEC BT for the Helix, so I can do BT straight from my Android to the Helix to bypass the stock HU. I was hoping to be able to use the CD player (I'm old... and still have CD's ), but I guess I can get with the times and go straight BT. I'll also cancel my Sirius XM radio.

Then I wouldn't have to worry about OE HU all-pass filters.


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Cancel your Sirius and pick up Tidal HiFi  It's like having every CD you've ever owned and lost, or considered buying but didn't, and a million others you didn't know you wanted to have.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I had Tidal, the more expensive version (not sure what it's called) for the 30 day trial period. I know my system is far from correctly set up (some might argue it's a mess) but i really didn't hear a noticeable improvement over my playing tunes from my library through Android Auto-Google play music. And most of what's in that limited collection is at 128 or 144 MP3 rips from my original cd's. I hate that i got rid of them looking back now (over 250 in 2002) . Maybe once i have things more squared away i might hear a bigger difference,i hope. And yes drop Sirius, the audio quality sucks even on the stock system!

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> I had Tidal, the more expensive version (not sure what it's called) for the 30 day trial period. I know my system is far from correctly set up (some might argue it's a mess) but i really didn't hear a noticeable improvement over my playing tunes from my library through Android Auto-Google play music. And most of what's in that limited collection is at 128 or 144 MP3 rips from my original cd's. I hate that i got rid of them looking back now (over 250 in 2002) . Maybe once i have things more squared away i might hear a bigger difference,i hope. And yes drop Sirius, the audio quality sucks even on the stock system!
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


Are you using the BT-24 yet or still using the car's BT?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I have not been successful using the bt-24 to stream audio. I found it annoying to have to setup a separate preset for Bluetooth streaming, then when i want to stream audio use either the control app or the control knob to pick that preset, the only visual verification is a red LED that blinks indicating the preset number 1-4 (good luck counting that while driving), unpair from the car, pair to the bt-24, pause whatever I'm attending to currently and then start playing. When I tried out Tidal i was using their Android auto app, which I have it understood uses USB for audio not Bluetooth. I rarely use the cars Bluetooth for music, almost exclusively Android auto and whatever app i choose, tidal, Google play music, YouTube music, Pandora, etc. The Dayton Bluetooth adapter is a bit easier to use in that once i pick "stream" from the app it automatically switches to the stream ignoring the RCA/high level inputs. Don't have the adapter yet but that's what I've read. 

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Ok so when you are using Android Auto (this is part of your stock HU, correct?), are you hooked up via a USB cord to the car's USB port in the center console or is it going directly to your AudioControl amp some how? I don't have Android Auto in my 2017. Looks like that was added to the WRX in 2019. I am assuming you have a different HU model. Mine is the CV682UL.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Yes the 2019 added Android Auto. It uses the USB ports in the center console. The older models didn't have it and had a smaller screen. Here's what i have understood, the audio output from Android auto travels along the USB from phone to head unit directly not through Bluetooth and then the audio goes to the speakers and in my (our) case to an amp or LOC. 

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Not sure you can tell the size of the screen in those but maybe helps. There is a long thread on nasioc with how to swap in a 2019 unit into the older model years.
















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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I see. So your (possibly our) way to bypass any sort of negative electrons going through the HU is to go straight to the amp/DSP without using the HU's inputs. I guess I have my way of doing that with the Helix BT module, which essentially adds a whole new input that can be selected via the URC.3 remote control fairly easily (one push button). Your solution is the Dayton BT adapter. I wonder if all WRX radios have some sort of all-pass filters in them.


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> I see. So your (possibly our) way to bypass any sort of negative electrons going through the HU is to go straight to the amp/DSP without using the HU's inputs. I guess I have my way of doing that with the Helix BT module, which essentially adds a whole new input that can be selected via the URC.3 remote control fairly easily (one push button). Your solution is the Dayton BT adapter. I wonder if all WRX radios have some sort of all-pass filters in them.


Afai-can tell the phase shift is largely irrelevant if it happens outside of a crossover. The phase is a function of the frequency, in other words no speakers entire output is in phase and we seem to really care when two drivers, and playing the same output, are out of phase. Eg a crossover.



I don't think that's correct. I think you want to achieve inline phasing of all drivers as much as possible.

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Based on what Andy told me, based on his recollection,yes. It's actually a common occurrence in stock radios. I remember seeing a couple 5 Star stereo vids where they show that with a speaker polarity tester. They verified everything was electrically correct but the stock unit swapped it. 

As far as electrons etc they all go through the stock head unit to the speaker output, difference with Android Auto is the audio stream is coming through the USB not the radios internal Bluetooth. So yes it still goes through the HU input. 

I wish the feature to stream was easier in the Audio Control, seems silly to go through all those hoops where you can simply push a button or even the ease with which the inexpensive Dayton does it. Right now I'm running the Dayton and it seems so much easier to use to me in every way. 

Another way to get higher quality audio is using a digital output (not an option for any of my hardware right now) using a cable to split the audio out of the phone to a digital input. There is an adapter cable you need to use but simple otherwise. Note, I've only seen it on iPhones but I'm sure Android had the same, just haven't looked for it. I'll link a video from 5 Star that's demoing the high end Sony head unit that showed the process. By the way that would be an amazing upgrade to the stock radio! Check it out really impressive and it better be at $1500!!







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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Interesting. I think I will see what happens with my Helix HEC BT. Theoretically, it should bypass the stock HU altogether as an additional source input. Realistically, that's probably all I'd need. I don't listen to radio that much and the only reason why I still have Sirius is because I transferred it from a leased vehicle we gave back in January (and of course I forgot the damn subscription renewed in April).


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Always works out that when you remember to cancel etc it's right after they "renewed"you, LOL. I'm pretty sure your right about the Helix working the way you want it to. Lately I've been listening to YouTube music, as TMobile had a T-Mobile Tuesday reward of 2 months free. Most admit sounds pretty decent and the variety is ok. I do listen to the radio sporadically still do wouldn't want to ignore it either. 

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Firmware update of my head unit, charged the sound a bit. As it comes into the amp the signal seems "flatter" than before. Below are slow response input RTA images from the amp. Yes there is a dip there but it has it before as well, the rest seems better to me though.
















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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Where did you find the update? Or was it by the dealer?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Got it from the nasioc forum, one of their users sent the link. From this thread;






2019 WRX and STi get Apple CarPlay and Android Auto... BUT - NASIOC


2019 WRX and STi get Apple CarPlay and Android Auto... BUT Car Audio, Video & Security



r.tapatalk.com





brettjson user

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Ok finally an update to post, a couple actually. I had my distributor swap my D6.1200 for an LC6.1200 and a GM-D9701 Even swap was nice of him, helps that I help him out on his truck when it comes in to the dealer,LOL. Anyways I now have a BNIB LC6.1200 to sell to recoup some costs and possible put that towards a Helix DSP 3. The Pioneer amp has made a world of difference as far as my sub! Completely woke that thing up, even with the seats folded up, with them down it can get to where it hurts!






















Had another buddy give me a couple sheets of StarBoard, one cut to size for re-doing the amp rack and another oversize to replace the foam piece the trunk originally had under the trunk liner. Since I'm using the area above the spare as an amp board location I needed to cut the "pockets" out of the foam piece to make room. The side effect was ( not surprisingly) it was weak so i needed to use pieces of 2x4 to support the center section. Early pics of the build shows the ugly pieces between the original 2 amps. Didn't like the look and since I changed an amp, i decided to re-do the board completely and use the StarBoard instead of the foam.








Completely redid the amp board both for aesthetic reasons as well as functional. The way its laid out not only looks a ton better but also better organizes the wiring for the current setup as well as if i choose to get that Helix piece (or find one cheaper). Thankfully both the Dayton and Helix share an approximate size along with the same connector layout with inputs and power on one side and the output on the other. When and if I change it'll a simple swap with no real difficulty or changes needed.









I changed the power wire to the LC6-1200 to a 4ga as the Pioneer amp only takes a 4ga, I dont think I"m taxing the Audio Control piece anywhere near enough to need the 0ga it can take anyways. I am still using the old school Streetwires 0ga power wire I had already installed but needed a slightly longer ground 0ga, so I picked up some locally. Wow what a difference, the old school stuff may actually be 00ga instead when compared to the 0ga i got (Orion Cobalt Series). Anyways everything is wired up and sounds good and now looks much better to boot!








I finally got myself a microphone! Got a UMIK1 from Parts Express which from what I've seen is kinda the preferred mic to use for REW etc. Plan to learn how to use REW a bit and give tuning a shot for real now that I have the correct equipment.








I am including pictures below of measurements of the opening and thickness of sub enclosure I have in case it helps anyone else trying to decide on getting one. So, if any one has any ideas,comments,critiques etc please chime in I enjoy learning. Thanks and i f anyone needs anything I can help with please feel free to ask!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Oops neglected to mention I recieved a set of speaker adapters from CarAv that took a month and a half to get here from China. Although quite nice I'm going to go with a 3d printed adapter that @Mtuna designed, already have the drivers side (thanks @Frequentflyer ) just need to print the pass side now. Pics below


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Pulled my front door panels off to install the speaker adapters. Found that with the old adapters and foam speaker rings they were butting up very nicely with the door panel. Let me tell you with the door panels off it sounds horrible, just sealing up against the door panel makes a huge difference. Anyways I believe, though I can't be 100% sure, that the speaker ring foam was pushing against the speaker rubber surround when the door panel is installed. In the pictures you can clearly see the indented line of the door panel in the surface of the foam. It's from the plastic rim that the oe speaker seals up against. In order to use the adapter that was 3d printed that rim has to be trimmed down (as in frequentflyer's and Mtuna's builds). Also when I first installed the foam rings around the speakers I accidentally got it on the very outside edge of the speaker rubber surround. Thankfully the glue that soundskins uses on these things is very easy to remove and didn't even leave any residue when removed from the speaker surround or the basket either. Kind hard to see as I didn't take a proper picture of it but you can see that I've ground down the rim from the speaker area of door panel so that its basically flush now to mate up against the speakers in their new adapters. I also added even more sound deadening to the door panel itself to be sure of no rattling.



















































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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I'm gonna do a little side by side comparison of the 3d printed adapter and the CarAv ones I got. As you can see in the images they compare very favorably with the 3d printed one even though different materials. They are specific left and right as the Metra ones that are sold as fitting our cars is really 2 right side adapters (known issue they haven't fixed). This is great news for those who are looking for adapters in our Subarus. The angle is perfect, the height is spot on and mimics the factory speaker pretty exactly. I had ordered the NVX silicone speaker baffles/rings to use with these adapters before getting the 3d printed ones. These are IMPRESSIVE nice and tall on the front to seal against the door panels and deep enough on the rear to cover the back of the magnet and protect it from water. They also include a foam "puck"to install on the door skin. I've included screen shots of this set as I stupidly didn't take pictures of them! Ugh. The speaker sits inside the silicone ring and then goes onto the speaker adapter, effectively sealing the speaker to the adapter without having to add foam or sealant to the back of the speaker basket. 

Unfortunately I can not use these with the 3d adapters as the adapter is designed to have the speaker sunk into the adapter for a flush fit. The adapter is such a beautiful design and even though designed for the GB60 the GS60 fits exactly. I tried a couple different foams to seal the basket to the adapter but no luck as they were either too thick or too wide. I thought about ordering a roll from Amazon etc specifically for this purpose, and thought against it in the end.

When I pulled the speaker out of the door it had rained the night before and the back of the speaker had a bit of moisture on it though I couldn't see any water damage or stains. I tried to figure out a way to use the NVX silicone ring, at least the back side, to help protect the speaker. Couldn't find a satisfactory way to do that. After a lot of deliberation I decided to use the CarAv adapters and NVX rings instead of the 3d printed adapter. It was a more complete package for me in the end and protecting the speaker was important to me after feeling the water on the back of the speaker. I didn't take pictures of my speakers in the adapters but the screen shots show EXACTLY how well it fits and how well the back of protected as well. The speaker gets mounted as mentioned with the silicone ring sandwiched between the speaker and adapter, then mount the assembly to the car. I did apply sound deadener to the surface of the adapter were it mounts to door metal. It's a solid seal and very sturdily mounted once screwed down.

While I was installing the dishes back in I turned the system on to be sure everything was working before reinstalling the panel. Everything running correctly I figured what the heck I'm already here might as well seal off the door a bit more. MIND BLOWN as I was sealing a hole about 4"around I was shocked as to how much better the sound got! It was like an on/off switch to the response it was so noticeable! Needless to say I sealed everything I could to prevent the back wave from making it's way out to the front, on both doors. 

Proceeded to reinstall the door panels and ensured the front of the silicone ring wouldn't fold or deform when installing the panels. Everything went on perfectly and the ring seals up again the door panels exactly as they should. Side effect of all this also was the fact that the speaker itself is now much closer to the speaker grill for a more direct line of sight for the sound to come in to the cabin. I verified with a flashlight this evening that the rings are flush and sealing correctly as in the day its a pita to see that. 

I'm really happy with my decision to use the CarAv and NVX products (no I have no affiliation etc, LOL). It just seems like a complete package to me and not I can move on to the process of tuning etc as I have no plans on changing anything else in the near future. Barring a great deal on a helix of course, LMAO. Anyways I'll keep updating this thread as I move forward.



















































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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

THX0849 said:


> I also present to you for your consideration the Mic rig of the year! LOL, had to come up with something to hold it in position best I could at the moment. Not sure if it's supposed to be facing forward or up and down but it is darn close to ear position while sitting in the car.


Sorry...reading peoples build logs before I go to snoozeville and I am a long way behind everything!
However that is not going to stop me from saying that THIS ^^^^^ is THE ****  
I love it!!!


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

opekone said:


> Try leaving a gap between your speakers crossover points. Instead of crossing your mid basses at 80-400 and your mids at 400-4k, leave a gap between them so you've got 2 drivers playing quieter summing up to the correct intensity. For example you could cross your doors 80-300 and the mids 400-4k. If 400 is your desired lower cutoff for a speaker the speaker playing below can be crossed at 75% of that. 400*.75=300. If you want to cross the top of a driver at 300, multiply the frequency by 4/3. 300* 4/3 = 400. Normally you'd have some weird phasing issues in inbetween the crossovers, but the LR24db slope, aka LR 4th order will work magic and make it sound lovely.
> 
> 
> For example you could run your sub to 80hz, your doors 105-300, mids 400-3k, and 4k-20k tweeters. The LR24 will take care of the rest. You're definitely getting some unnecessary combs crossing two drivers at the same frequency.
> ...


Sorry about comment lateness again...
It has likely been said by someone already. but this is good information...only in a slightly awkward format...
I do not know where the 75% comes from? Perhaps that is synonymous with a 4th order LR...?
Regardless...I used to think the same (4th order LR rolls off nice and quick and has no phase issues...sweet!). However a previous 'audio mentor' educated me a heap about crossover frequency's and filters etc...someone has probably said this already so I will just note...if you have a DSP then you likely have phase control as part of it, so don't be concerned about phase issues (you don't even need to swap the wire polarity on the driver anymore!).
You should be concerned with rolling off every driver at 24dB/octave. It may (I want to say 'it likely will' but I won't<---FAIL) roll the sound of your speaker off to quickly instead of letting the driver play as it naturally wants to and not choking it off; but still protecting it from the extremes of it's response.
Other than a sub sonic filter on the sub channel; don't use 4th order at all and see how you go. BE CAREFUL obviously; but dam 4th order rolls off really quick...my previous forum bud's idea (and for the record I am not talking about some random douche; he judged a lot of the SQ comp's over East of Australia and owned a very profitable shop...he knew his **** big time...) was not to roll off a tweeter at more than a first order if possible!
it changed the way I thought and it was right as well (well IMHO anyway...). He suggested not going higher than 12dB/octave (2nd order) on any crossover point (if possible). Also don't forget that there are other filters (not just Linkwitz/Riley)...Butterworth, Bessel et al....I don't know if all DSP's offer alternate filters though.

No offence to anyone, I just thought this info might be helpful


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Different crossovers affect phase differently. The magic of the LR 4th order is it keeps everything in phase. Armed with that knowledge read through the audiofrog link again.

An octave gap is to double or half the frequency eg: 200hz is one octave below 400hz. 200hz is one octave above 100hz. To compensate for the 24db/octave roll off you put a half octave gap between the crossovers. It's easy to calculate a half octave gap. If you have the high value you multiply by .75. If you have the low value you multiply by 4/3.

I found this post elucidating: It’s impossible to build a good loudspeaker. Part 1: Crossovers


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

opekone said:


> Different crossovers affect phase differently. The magic of the LR 4th order is it keeps everything in phase. Armed with that knowledge read through the audiofrog link again.
> 
> An octave gap is to double or half the frequency eg: 200hz is one octave below 400hz. 200hz is one octave above 100hz. To compensate for the 24db/octave roll off you put a half octave gap between the crossovers. It's easy to calculate a half octave gap. If you have the high value you multiply by .75. If you have the low value you multiply by 4/3.
> 
> I found this post elucidating: It’s impossible to build a good loudspeaker. Part 1: Crossovers


'Elucidating'...nice man...I have not heard that one before! Always like learning new words  
I have not read that thread as I am headed to bed (like 3am local!) but I will do so...however I see what you mean with the 75% now  I believe there may be some confusion as to the cross over point. The cross over point between two drivers is a *single value. *I believe you are confusing the actual point that the driver signal starts to roll off with the actual cross over point.
If you describe the cross over value more in terms of dB's and octaves it might become apparent. 
Differing crossovers (LR, Butterworth, Bessel and the rest) have specific values where the actual 'cross overs' of each driver intercept each other. With a LR it is -6dB, for a Butterworth it is -3dB for instance. As you have said; a 4th order LR has a slope of 24 dB/octave. As a 4th order LR (and 2nd order is the same I believe) has a -6dB drop. The math is pretty simple...to drop 6dB it needs a quarter of an octave (6 dB / 24 dB/octave = 1/4 octave). Correspondingly the other driver that you are crossing over with does the same math and the sum is the half octave that you are referring to.
However...that half octave gap IS NOT the cross over point for each driver. it is the gap between where each driver begins to roll over...and it is really arbitrary as it is not a value you should be putting into your DSP.
If you are telling your DSP to make each driver cross over at a different value; you will get the wrong result. I will draw two pictures to show what I mean. These are anything but a work of art but it is late and I enjoy Scotch Whiskey so...yeah...🥃

This is the correct way to understand a 'cross over' point. The half octave that you are referring to is the point at which each driver begins to roll over...









This is what I believe you are describing? Really poorly drawn and sorry for wherever the blue lines came from! However you can see that you are telling the DSP to cross over each driver in a different spot (the half octave gap that you are mentioning) - so rather than meet up at the established value of -6dB for a 4th order LR - they are meeting up way outside that. Result would be a dramatic dip in amplitude/dB level/volume around that point.









Sorry about the time difference because I would like to have a chat about this some more and read that link. I have no problem admitting that I have it wrong or have misunderstood something and apologise! However I studied this in depth years ago and just checked it now and I will back myself. Kinda has some far reaching effects if a few guys are doing it this way as it will screw up the response....

Anyway my apologies as I need sleep; but let me know what you think and I will get back to you tomorrow 

Cheers man


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

You are spot on, I had a fundamental misunderstanding. Thanks for clearing that up. It'll be interesting to a/b the correct crossovers vs. my misunderstanding which is duct taped together with shelf filters.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Those CarAV mounts look nice.

I think I am going to pull my door panels off again to investigate. I have a feeling something is touching either both or one of my GB60's. Whether it is the foam ring or what, I have no idea, but I am getting weird responses out of them. Pics in my build thread.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I truly am sorry and seriously regret not haven taken pictures of the speakers installed in the doors with the adapters and silicone rings on. It looks like it should have come from factory like that. Very solid and butts up perfect to the door grille. Frequentflyer, definitely pull off the door panels to investigate any instruction or obstruction on the speakers, surround etc. I will tell you one thing YOU MUST DO, with the door panel off have music playing, something you know and with a piece of sound deadener etc, go over every opening on the door. Where wires go through, airbag impact sensor hole, etc. Cannot reiterate enough how amazing the difference was when i did it. Night and day difference. I hope that might be the cause for your lack of midbass. I know it sounds redundant but triple check your polarity too. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

Using those silicone baffles and mounting rings I recommended I see. I ended up cutting the back of the silicone baffle, as it seemed like it would restrict the back of my helix c6b too much. Probably could have left the top of the back on the block water, but with the carav rings and these speakers, they don't seem to stick into the door too much. the main ones that get wet are the rear speakers. Even the stock rears were filled with water when I pulled them off, and it hadent rained in a few days.

Anyway, I was driving for the past few days with my door panels off, you are right, sounds terrible. I think it is due to the large gap from the top of the metal to the window, allowing the backwave out. The rest of my door is pretty well sealed, just that gap when the door panel is off.

Also, I am surprised how much more road/wind noise there is with the door panel off. Blocks more than I thought it would.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

My door is completely sealed or at least as sealed as it can be. I put sound deadener over every opening, which is why I think it is weird I don't have decent midbass response.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

spwath said:


> Using those silicone baffles and mounting rings I recommended I see. I ended up cutting the back of the silicone baffle, as it seemed like it would restrict the back of my helix c6b too much. Probably could have left the top of the back on the block water, but with the carav rings and these speakers, they don't seem to stick into the door too much. the main ones that get wet are the rear speakers. Even the stock rears were filled with water when I pulled them off, and it hadent rained in a few days.
> 
> Anyway, I was driving for the past few days with my door panels off, you are right, sounds terrible. I think it is due to the large gap from the top of the metal to the window, allowing the backwave out. The rest of my door is pretty well sealed, just that gap when the door panel is off.
> 
> Also, I am surprised how much more road/wind noise there is with the door panel off. Blocks more than I thought it would.



Not sure about the back of the ring restricting the speaker, at least on the GS60 it looked to have a decent amount of clearance. I'm really impressed with how well the adapter/ring combination works and looks. Still regret not taking pictures of it but might have to take door panel to replace a noisy door check. Forgot about it when I was doing the speaker adapter swap 🙄, I'll try and convince the dealer ( its still under warranty ) to let me change it. I've got a good relationship with the manager (perks of being in the biz) should be ok. So I'll submit pictures whenever that happens. I will order another set of silicone rings for the rear speakers based on your recommendation. Even though they're only powered from the head-unit no reason to let them get damaged needlessly. Its been a slow process but it sounds pretty decent right now without any tuning at all so far. Now that I have all the equipment and the speakers and components all sorted out, that'll be the next step. 

As far as the crossover conversation and the suggested crossover points I've got an interesting story. When I spoke to Andy ( yes THAT Andy ) a few months ago he suggested the following points for the GS10-25-60 and sub

GS10 3000-20k
GS25 300-3000
GS60 80-300
Sub 20-60
Interesting he left a gap between the sub and GS60 but said that was because of cabin gain. I did initially setup those points exactly and when I tried the "gaps" between crossover point s as Opekone had suggested I thought it sounded better that way. Completely by ear as I did not have a mic or anything to test out for measurements. I left those gapped x-over points for a while now and still happy with it.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Crossover points:

Those are the exact crossover points I am using. Good to hear it coming from Andy.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> Crossover points:
> 
> Those are the exact crossover points I am using. Good to hear it coming from Andy.


He really is a nice guy, very helpful and has no issues whatsoever taking time to talk to me and explain stuff. Nice to see that to be honest. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## TripleK (Jul 5, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> More than worth the money I spent, $359 plus shipping
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


You did a really great job! About how many hours do you think you invested in the whole project?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

TripleK said:


> You did a really great job! About how many hours do you think you invested in the whole project?


There is no telling the actual number of hours to be honest, as I really took my time with it. The bulk of the time I spent on it was on the initial installation, took a week off at that time. From then on little bits here and there, trying different things and different setups. Are considering taking a stab at it yourself?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

opekone said:


> You are spot on, I had a fundamental misunderstanding. Thanks for clearing that up. It'll be interesting to a/b the correct crossovers vs. my misunderstanding which is duct taped together with shelf filters.


Sorry mate but I have been elsewhere in life recently...but I'm kind of conflicted with this little discussion!

As an Engineer I always bet on the correct science and the correct understanding at all times...but with car audio (and I'll put my head on the chopping block and say ALL AUDIO) there are certainly 'rules'...but it is WAY MORE subjective. What one guy loves another will hate...I think we all pretty much understand that point.

With that in mind...I'm stoked that I was able to help out with some fundamentals of audio (and I'll be honest: it has taken 150+ posts for me to say much of anything that was disagreeing with someone but was correct and I'm pretty chuffed about that as well!)...but at the same time...

...I feel like I just dropped a bomb that made at least one dude go 'ahhh ****....now it's back to the drawing board'...

As much as I am happy that I could put that understanding straight...my apologies @opekone for throwing a spanner in the mountains of work that you and others here have done...

Peace mate


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

THX0849 said:


> As far as the crossover conversation and the suggested crossover points I've got an interesting story. When I spoke to Andy ( yes THAT Andy ) a few months ago he suggested the following points for the GS10-25-60 and sub
> 
> GS10 3000-20k
> GS25 300-3000
> ...


Totally agreed...with reference to my point on crossover points there are a number of other factors that come into play other than just the point I clarified! Even in the two sketches I drew there was the assumption that both drivers were at the same 'amplitude', both had the theoretical same 'cross over point' (2nd and 4th order LR are -6dB - cool - but Butterworth is -3dB, Bessel is -5dB I think!), and both had the same roll off slope. That's leaving phase issues. time alignment and the mentioned cabin gain out of this little note.

Taking all that; imagine if both drivers from my sketches were crossed at the same frequency but with a 2nd order Butterworth to one driver and a 4th order LR to the other. Easy enough to plot on a DSP if you want to see the chaos that unfolds!

My point being that it is Pandora's Box that it is good to know a little about; but don't get hung up on it. If your system sounds good with a 'cross over gap' at any point then all good. Don't let my science BS talk you out of it or confuse you.



THX0849 said:


> He really is a nice guy, very helpful and has no issues whatsoever taking time to talk to me and explain stuff. Nice to see that to be honest.


Yeah dam right. That is rare and it's awesome to see...there has only been one member on DIYMA that has taken the time out of his day to message me and suggest something that I might be interested in; and I'm commenting on his discussion right now. Life goes in circles bro, cheers @THX0849 

Peace


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

So after 2 months of waiting, my polarity tester showed up! And I finally opened up the box for my umik1. Gonna give REW a try.
















Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

REW should be pretty easy to use once you figure it out, but if you have any questions, feel free to ask me.
It can be a very useful tool for tuning (if you don't have a DSP with auto tuning function that works well)


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

spwath said:


> REW should be pretty easy to use once you figure it out, but if you have any questions, feel free to ask me.
> It can be a very useful tool for tuning (if you don't have a DSP with auto tuning function that works well)


Yeah Dayton 408, no Auto tune by any means, LOL. Thank you so very much for the offer. Gonna give it a whirl if the weather permits tonight. Planning on only recording what is like right now. Then try EQ'ing the setup. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

spwath said:


> REW should be pretty easy to use once you figure it out, but if you have any questions, feel free to ask me.
> It can be a very useful tool for tuning (if you don't have a DSP with auto tuning function that works well)


Do you think so? Not at all meaning to doubt as I haven't used the system before; as far as I made it was a fair bit of discussion on an Australian car audio forum about the topic and I have read about a third of the REW help manual...and to be honest I was really starting to go 'whoa...this stuff is pretty heavy'! I figured that I could get it; but I also figured that I REALLY needed to invest some time in it to be able to make it useful...
Of course there is 'what the manual says' and there is 'I've done it...this is what you do and it isn't that hard'...mate if you don't mind and could list down ANY notes about it's use relative to car audio (or point to some good links/forum reads) that would be awesome mate...champion to offer assistance to THX as well  props mate...it's good to see some guys dropping in just to offer assistance...


THX0849 said:


> Yeah Dayton 408, no Auto tune by any means, LOL. Thank you so very much for the offer. Gonna give it a whirl if the weather permits tonight. Planning on only recording what is like right now. Then try EQ'ing the setup.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Interested in the results man


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

captainbuff said:


> Do you think so? Not at all meaning to doubt as I haven't used the system before; as far as I made it was a fair bit of discussion on an Australian car audio forum about the topic and I have read about a third of the REW help manual...and to be honest I was really starting to go 'whoa...this stuff is pretty heavy'! I figured that I could get it; but I also figured that I REALLY needed to invest some time in it to be able to make it useful...
> Of course there is 'what the manual says' and there is 'I've done it...this is what you do and it isn't that hard'...mate if you don't mind and could list down ANY notes about it's use relative to car audio (or point to some good links/forum reads) that would be awesome mate...champion to offer assistance to THX as well  props mate...it's good to see some guys dropping in just to offer assistance...
> 
> Interested in the results man


Ok, yeah REW can be a bit complicated, but what you need to do is pretty simple.

Step one: if using minidsp mic, download calibration file from minidsp website.
Plug in minidsp mic and fire up REW
Should get a popup saying minidsp UMIK-1 detected, would yuou like to use it for measurement? Select yes obviously.
Next it will say "Do you have a calibration file?" Select yes, and find where you downloaded the calibration file. Use the non 90 degree one if not having mic straight up and down.

Now to actually take measurement you have two options.

1) Using measure function of REW, and using laptop with REW as sound source
Click measure at top left corner. Make sure start and end frequency are set to what you want (probably 20-20K hz if measureing whole system)
Might want to put a start delay on it too so you have time to get out of the car to not interfere with measurement. Also click check levels, will play some pink noise, and tell you if your level is loud enough for measurement. If not, turn it up.
Now hit start measurement, and get out of the car. It will play a sweep from 20-20000 hz. 
It will bring you to a graph, click on the all SPL tab to see it best. Adjust limits to see your measurement the best. Make sure its on a log scale and not linear. Linear is useless.

2) Using RTA function of REW, and using alternate source playing pink noise
Download some pink noise to whatever source you are using. Make sure its mono uncorrelated. Play the noise through speakers. Click RTA in REW.
Hit the record button, let it go for a bit, then hit it again. You then have your measurement there.

From here, adjust your eq settings in your DSP to get your curve to whatever you want.


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Copied and pasted to a word document in the 'Tuning' folder of the Car Stereo folder on my PC 🤘
Legend, cheers man


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

captainbuff said:


> Copied and pasted to a word document in the 'Tuning' folder of the Car Stereo folder on my PC 🤘
> Legend, cheers man


 Yeah, its not too bad once you get used to REW.
I just covered the measurement part, there is more to tuning and stuff with the DSP from the measurement results, but that kinda depends on the DSP somewhat.
Maybe Ill do a writeup topic at some point.
I have used REW a bit for measureing headphones and stuff, also am going into my senior year of mechanical engineering with an acoustics concentration, so I have some experience with this stuff.


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

spwath said:


> Yeah, its not too bad once you get used to REW.
> I just covered the measurement part, there is more to tuning and stuff with the DSP from the measurement results, but that kinda depends on the DSP somewhat.
> Maybe Ill do a writeup topic at some point.
> I have used REW a bit for measureing headphones and stuff, also am going into my senior year of mechanical engineering with an acoustics concentration, so I have some experience with this stuff.


For real...? Awesome man. good on you  I considered all the Engineering sub-disciplines when I was making a choice for University (same thing as a College for the benefit of Americans, just we call it something different)...I was super keen on Metalurgical for a while...but settled on plain Civil Engineering. Retrospectively due to the resources boom that took off in Australia just as I graduated I picked with a little serendipity! I would love to study acoustics at a University level...not so much for car audio but for other pursuits I have (drumming, guitarist, bass, highly respected triangle prodigy 🤦‍♂️ lol)...cool thing to be learning mate! 

Related to REW...I think I mentioned I read the manual and made it a ways in? I came to about the part where they started talking about FTT plots and 3 dimensional graphs and that's when I realised that I couldn't just read this in ten minutes before bed...I really needed to sit down and spend time reading it. 

I have always had in my head the concept that to learn something properly you have to learn a lot of stuff that you never ever use again...specifically I learnt two years of mathematics at University and never used a single piece of it after that - and in reality to become a decent Civil Engineer a good 50% of what I learnt could have been stripped from the course. 

Coming back to my point...I sort of feel the same way with REW? When I was reading the manual I really started to think 'wow...that's cool...but not at all what I am ever going to need to use. Can I get this manual written in a manner that is specific to a semi-intelligent human that just wants to tune his car stereo/home theater...not in a way that gives an acoustic aficionado a bulge in his pants?' Let me know if you sort of see it the same way. Don't get me wrong - I am totally against the 'Steps 1 to 'n' and then you're all good' approach without any concept of what is going on - but like I said it felt like 99% of dudes don't need (and don't want!) to have to go through a lot of what I was reading...interested in your thoughts mate?

I think a few guys approach it with the thought of 'do all TA, phasing, level matching, cross overs etc. around about how I think it should be done; do a RTA; then EQ it right...all good ' and come away disappointed that they don't have the results they really wanted. Then in discussion with them it becomes apparent that they have been operating with totally the wrong idea of how crossovers work...just really no point trying to sprint when you don't know how to walk yet. Subtle point made there.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Well, here goes, don't know if everything is set up as it should be but I'll send you the REW files if anyone want to go deeper as I can upload them here. This first set it the RTA measurement using pink noise (Kicker lab grade pink noise).


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

And here are the measurements using the tone sweeps from REW.


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> Well, here goes, don't know if everything is set up as it should be but I'll send you the REW files if anyone want to go deeper as I can upload them here. This first set it the RTA measurement using pink noise (Kicker lab grade pink noise).


You want to hit the button at top right of graph window that says freq axis. This will change to a log scale which is much more useful to visualize.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

As a side note my wife was in the car a couple times this weekend and complained up and down how there is not "low sound" up front as if a car behind me was playing the bass notes, not my car. You need to put the speaker up front to here it, LOL. Shes critical and has a good ear. Also complained that the sound doesn't surround or envelope you, as I really dont have rear speakers running (off deck power only) shes right. So this morning I put in my time delays using measurements (inches converted to ms) and she listened to it again "ok that better, not great, but better". Incredible how timing can make you think a speaker is somewhere else. HA!!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Like this?


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

Yes exactly. And if you click all SPL on the top, you should be able to see all the lines on the same plot, to see your system overall.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Seismic activity in Florida!? What a mess!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

spwath said:


> Yes exactly. And if you click all SPL on the top, you should be able to see all the lines on the same plot, to see your system overall.


like this?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Based on this pic my tweeters are playing ok"?


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> like this?


Also have to check the boxes at the bottom to get each measurement to display.

Also your measurement level looks a bit low, I would measure again at a bit louder level, just to get more above background level.


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

If you want to send the files to [email protected] I should be able to get a better look at them.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

here is the mid bass and mid range


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

spwath said:


> If you want to send the files to [email protected] I should be able to get a better look at them.



Thank you to the N'th power! Sent.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

ALso, you want to view just "All SPL" and not "SPL and Phase".


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> ALso, you want to view just "All SPL" and not "SPL and Phase".


Got it, thanks!


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

Ok, so its looks pretty good for the most part.
There were a few sets of measurements there, I chose the one that seemed to be furthest above noise floor. This one the sub measurement didn't seem right, so I didn't include it in the graph. I merged everything together to get a nice picture of the whole system, left and right.









As you can see, they kinda merge together at the lower frequencies.
Was the engine running when you took the measurement? This could be engine noise, with measurement level not being high enough. Or, it could be an accurate measurement, with the similarities between left and right down low just coming to due the acoustics of the car. Also, the tweeters seem to roll of after about 12khz, which seems a bit odd. Not sure why they would do that. 

Just to be sure, I would take measurements again at a higher level.
Below is a measurement of my system from a bit ago before I upgraded my speakers, but as you can see from the scale on the left, the overall level is higher, just to make sure no background noise gets in there. Also I took measurements with the engine off. (the two lines are from two different bass knob positions)


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Yeah I always take measurements with the engine off.  Of course, this time of year, I have lost about 10lb of sweat out in the car with no A/C. I will usually run the A/C full blast for a while with the car in the shade and then turn it off to take measurements (real fast). THX, you are in S. Florida so that must be tough. Got a garage?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Nope, garage converted into a guest room before i moved to this house. But year is been hot AF down here and the humidity is killer. Under working circumstances as a tech i love the heat and everything including the buckets o sweat it brings, but at night trying to tune the car, not fun. 

To be honest I'm not sure if or which of those measurements were taken with the car running or not. I know i had it on for a couple at least (2 sets one using the measurement button the other using the rta button). I was in the back seat to not block the sound going to the microphone. Maybe it would have been smarter to put the laptop on the roof and let the little bit of breeze keep me from melting! 

I will start over again tomorrow, making double sure the settings are correct and the engine isn't running. Wouldn't it be smarter to have the engine running as a true example of how we would be listening to the system? I'm probably wrong but i always wondered that. Below is they picture of the microphone placement from earlier today as i was planning things out. I used the 90⁰ calibration file which i hope it's correct. 

Spwath, do you mean to say that the engine running causes that merging of the lines down low? I guess that could be possible as the car does have a decent low rumble. As for the recording volume I had it at 21 of 38. I usually max out as far as turning it up at 25-26. Anything higher than that has no appreciable increase in sound, as if the head unit stops at that point. 

Should i go to that point or maybe turn up the gains more? To tell the truth i don't know if the gains are setup correctly, I have them on the LC6-1200 at the mid point for the midrange and mid bass, and the tweeter just a hair short of mid point as i think they're too bright in the middle position. As for the levels on the DSP i even have the tweeters down about 5db for the same reason. I don't have an O-scope to setup to clipping etc, maybe with a DVOM? 

Not sure why the tweeters would be rolling off at 12k I don't have a filter or anything on them, right now head unit and DSP are both flat. I really don't feel much out of the midbass based solely on the pink noise measurements and my ear. By the way just to be clear the recording files i sent were sweeps from REW, not pink noise. Is that correct?

Sorry for the long post guys lots of info to get in. Thank you!

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

Actually I wouldn't worry about that rolling of up top. These "cheap" mics are not that accurate in the extremes of the audible spectrum.

Yes, I was saying it could possibly just be getting the engine noise down low. You are right, it might make a difference to have engine running with high voltage, but I wouldn't think it would be too different.
And you can have engine running, just have to make sure that the measurement level is enough above the engine noise level.

I personally just set my gains with a multimeter, worked fine. I do have an o scope, but need to get a 10x probe to set amp gain. Used it to check if head unit was clipping though.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

If i have the engine running and I'm using the sweep from the laptop to the aux input (1/8" jack) i get alternator whine, i remember now i did those with engine off but i will try measure tomorrow to make 100% sure. 

I meant about taking into consideration the engine running as part of the tune to approximate how I'd normally listen to the car, rarely if ever do i listen to the system with the engine off. But let's not reinvent the wheel. I'll be sure everything i do is with the engine off.

How did you set the gains using a dvom? I'd love to be able to do that!

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I've got the Helix, so obviously my "procedure" is different, but basically I will mute all but the driver I am going to measure, run my uncorrelated pink noise and press record. I record until about 100 averages, stop and save. Then I'll move to the next driver. My pink noise is 4-5 minutes long and I just run it on the loop so I usually just keep it playing. I usually put ear plugs in because I will play it up around 90-95 db (you can see this level in the RTA screen). It's not too loud, but after listening to that crap for a long period of time, my ears start to ring. I'll go through each driver and then go back and name/save them in the main screen (L Tweeter, R Tweeter, etc.).

For setting gains with a voltmeter, start watching around 3:30:


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

It's funny (not) I've seen that video a few times and never caught on to the fact of setting gains using the DVOM. Marc's videos are always very informative, good watching. So I went square one and set about to set gains as instructed. I followed the video about and a write up over at Sonic Electronix. In the instructions from Sonic it mentions disconnecting the positive wire from the speaker output (I assume so as speakers aren't actually powered) and I did so. However to my dismay and bewilderment I found a couple issues I didn't know I even had!! First one of my tweeters was hooked up in reverse polarity (no clue how I missed that one) feeling stupid right now,ugh. Second as you might have seen in my latest pics of the trunk/amp board layout, i am using terminal strips to connect the speakers/amp.Well guess what I didn't fully crimp 8 of them!! Soon as i tugged on them lightly to disconnect them I noticed the wire moving freely inside the crimp terminal and if i pulled straight out they came out without even damaging the copper! Needless to say I re-checked all of them to ensure a tight connection. replaced the loose ones and the others were secure.

On to the gain setting, I downloaded from the JL Audio website a set of 50,200,1000 and 8000 sine wave (3 min long) files along the stereo and mono pink noise (15 min those last 2)files to use. Setup my DVOM (glad I didn't sell it when i stopped turning wrenched for a living) for AC voltage and made sure the loose speaker connectors did not touch anything. I fired up the files using the 200 for the mid-bass channels, 1000 for the mid-range and 8000 for the my tweeters.Using the math provided,square root of 125x4 for my particular amp, the voltage should be 22.36 volts. I was able set set it to 22.3 with a bit of patience as the gain pots are touchy things, endless procession of back and forth before getting hat i needed. Interesting side note this was the first time I'd ever seen the "maximized" led light up on my Audio Control amp. They came on just a touch past the 22.3 volts for the tweet and mid-range. The mid-bass channels never lit up even when fully cranked. I set that one back the indicated 22.3 volts and left it there. I honestly didn't set up the Sub gain as I can easily over power the speaker with the Pioneer amp and feel I have a decent amount (lets see what measurements say later).


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Neglected to mention above that I also changed my volume position for testing (25) and also used 28 as my gain set point as it is .75 of the full volume (38).I then began prepping to make a fresh set of REW measurements. Made sure everything as far as EQ etc are all flat, brought back up the tweeter levels in the dsp from -5 to 0. Placed my microphone in the same position (best i could tell) and used the mono pink noise for the individual speaker channels and the stereo pink noise for the "all" speaker recording. Recorded each speaker in succession with 30 averages each (used less the first time). I will include the pictures below. I placed the laptop on the roof of the car with the wires for the dsp and mic coming though the door, to make the measurements.

Also got in the mail today the Bluetooth dongle for the Dayton DSP, this should allow adjustments etc to be made a bit easier on the fly and also stream music using the APTX capability. Tiny little thing, I'll mess with it tomorrow.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Your tweeters look much better now. I'd be willing to bet the odd responses you were showing before (drop-off) were because you had one running reverse polarity. You can also apply 1/6 or 1/12th smoothing to get them to look a little nicer. 

I've been loading house curves and bringing them up in the RTA so I can do "live" tuning by continuously recording (and just resetting the average). It's been working well.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Well the tweeters are definitely more pronounced now for sure. Almost to the point of fatigue on my drive in to work this morning. I hear a lot of tweet but not much mid bass/range comparatively speaking. After raising the gains on the 6 channel amp i may end up having to raise the gain on the sub after all! LOL 

For sure the tweeter must have been causing an issue because of the polarity. It's weird though, when using the polarity tester that i finally got from China all the speakers were in phase but the left tweeter was intermittently in and out of phase. I would have thought it would be either in or out but i guess maybe bring a tweeter the resistance value changes depending on frequency. Or so i remember reading. 

I will now be able to sit and tune a bit more that i have a better base line. Actually here at work loaded up REW on my desktop to mess with my results and determine EQ points. Benefit of being a mushroom manager, LOL. 

I am using the Audio Frog house curve for my house curve. The long article Andy put out with explanations and directions of how to tune is so very informative! Wow. 


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

So they're re-sealing my driveway this week and I probably wont be able to do any tuning on the system until they're done. I do however wanna update a couple things. I spent a little time using the EQ function of REW to come up with some eq points to put into the dsp. I think I kinda have that basic down, although by far still a noob.

The drive home tonight definitely made clear to me I have to tone down the tweeters, too bright although perfectly crisp and clear. Just too much for my ears at a loud level for more that a song or two. Maybe 5 or 10 db down on the level from the dsp should fix that.

The Bluetooth dongle is absolutely brilliant and works flawlessly!! So easy to operate and to stream directly via APT-X. 1 click and I'm streaming. Using this the adjust everything i so fluid and easy with this thing especially when I don't wanna lug out the laptop for something easy I think will be its biggest attribute there.

Now for the negative stuff, remember a few posts back where the wife mentioned my system not sounding right (or full? Well i drove her car (2019 Jeep Cherokee Limited,no sub etc, basic) to fill it up and do a quick grocery run while she's still working,so I hooked up my phone to her car and noticed 2 things right away.

First Android auto hooks up the first time every-time compared to the stock WRX unit ( have to unplug and re-plug to get it running )

Secondly and most importantly her car simply sounds better, more full than my car! Mind you of course it is nowhere near the same amount of low end and doesn't have the same tweeter cleanness or level. But man it sounds good! I found myself longing for the amount of mid-bass that car has compared to mine whether at a low or loud volume. I see what she means by "fuller sound". I don't get why I (we) have to work so hard for that result.I know I'm gonna get flamed for this and please feel free to state what I might have wrong etc. I want what she's got plus more bass and a bit more top end. I'm sure the radio has a built in curve to it to allow for that and that is really what I'm working at I guess. Maybe I'll take a moment this week and measure her car to compare and submit here. Well I'll post updates as I can the next couple days, maybe tuning with the Bluetooth instead of the laptop while the driveway is unusable😄


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I feel the same way about the midbass in my car. I have read raving reviews about the GB60's, but they are weak in my car. The tweeters and midranges are amazing, but I am disappointed with the midbass so far. Granted I am not finished tuning, but with 120 watts going to them, they should be a lot more impressive than they are. Some songs sound better than others and luckily the GB10D2 in the trunk sounds great, but for the most part the midbass is weak. MTuna complained about the same thing. Now you and me. I am starting to think it's not the drivers. It must be the doors. I am starting to think it may be worth making some sort of enclosure for the midbass in these cars. My doors are pretty well sealed. I covered the entire door with sound deadener.


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

Here are my thoughts on your latest measurements from yesterday:

Big dip in midrange. Midrange speakers are like almost 10db too low of level compared to rest of system.
See the big dip from like 600-6000 Hz:









Then see how the midrange level is much lower than rest of system









Just bump that level up, the tweeters down, do some light eq, and you should be good to go.

For what its worth, I think the midbass is great in my impreza hatchback, with my helix C6B woofers in my two way system. Ill take some measurement of my current system today or tomorrow to compare.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Ok that's some great insight there you guys. Frequentflyer, I can't imagine that with what we both have done to our doors to desk then up etc, that the stick doors in a Jeep have a better midbass response. My amp puts out 125 watts per channel, I would also think that's enough to push these things sufficiently to produce what we think it should. 

I wonder if it's simply the cabin cancelling something out. Or possibly the head unit itself causing some weird issue we both (not sure about Mtuna) have such head units after all.

Spwath, thanks! That's kinda what i was coming up with with the little bit i fiddled at work on REW. The tweeter didn't need much based on what i saw also. And yes by far the mid-range needs the most help there apparently. I will measure again to ensure a stable and repeatable result to base adjustments on. Think i should simply raise the gain on the mid range vchannel a hair or EQ it instead?

The Impreza is basically the same car as ours, your midbass is nice and present? Did you do anything above what we've done to our doors to get that? What's your secret!!?? LOL. Seriously though we're ( I ) are lacking in that department. 

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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

I would raise the gain a bit (if you have the room to raise the gain without clipping). EQing to get higher has its own issues, raising the gain is the best option if you can.

Yeah, at least to me, my midbass seems very good. I just sealed my doors, and that's it. One thing it could be, I think my sub is crossed kinda high, like 80 hz I think. There was a topic somewhere about using a sub to get better midbass, as the door locations can have issues, so it could be that. Looking at your measurements I would guess you sub is crossed somewhere around 60 hz?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Yes I'm crossed at 60 for the sub as per Andy's recommendation. It would be easy for me to raise it to 80 now with the Bluetooth dongle. I'll give it a shot. Not sure where the others are crossed over at though. 

I think the article you mention was by Erinh and there's a video for it as well. Completely forgot about it, should look into it. Thanks sir for shaking the nogin!

I should have a little bit of wiggle room on the mid channel gain, I'll try that first and then EQ the rest of the way, thank you!. 

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I have completely taken the OE headunit out of the equation with the DAP I'm using with Tidal. I don't even turn it on anymore (and try to forget I am paying for XM Radio until next Spring ). I have been meaning to connect the front OE output channels to the E&F input channels of the Helix to use an an "AUX" input when I get a Bluetooth call, which if I set it up correctly in the IO, would most likely allow me to hear the call through the front channels, but I haven't done that yet. The DAP optical output is probably providing the cleanest/flattest signal I am going to get into the DSP.

I'm sure your wife's jeep has rear speakers also, which is providing rear fill and a much "fuller" sound in addition to the fact OE systems tend to unnaturally boost the lows and the highs to make them sound better than they are. As much as we car audio enthusiast focus on in-your-face staging/imaging, I think the majority of us deep down inside prefer being immersed in sound from all different directions or at least a little bit from behind us. I don't have the option for adding rear fill at this point as I only went with a 6-channel DSP/Amp combo. If I had gone with the P Eight, that'd been an option, but the P Eight wouldn't have fit under my seat. Are you still running your rear fill?

I am nowhere near done tuning, but I think it's about as good as it's going to get while the weather is hot right now. I can't be out there for more than 30-45 minutes without feeling like I just jumped in a lake.

REW EQ does work well, but depending on your install, I find it adds two many EQ points which many of are not necessary, so I think at some point (again when the weather gets more tolerable and I can comfortably sit in the car without dying from heat exhaustion), I will start from scratch and attempt to manually tune.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

It had slipped my mind about your DAP! Yeah you are definitely giving that DSP the best and flattest possible signal to process (as long as the DAP doesn't introduce its own curve, if that's even possible). I'm sure you're right about the rear fill adding to the overall system on my wife's car although if I swing my head back there and listen I can barely make anything out of them. I am currently running the rear speakers (uselessly probably) off the stock head unit. I could always add a small amp on its own for those 2 speakers as i thankfully have all the needed wiring back there already. A small Audio Control AMC-300.2 would probably be more than enough. Only problem I can come up with is the rear channels have so little output from stock i don't know how much it would actually add. Of course that would be out of the loop DSP wise but could be an option to get some "completeness" to the sound. You are right though about the different goals for the sound signature. I honestly am not looking for a pure front sound stage with perfect imaging and center of steering wheel center image. More like filling the cabin with good clean sound nice and loud and good bass.

I know the tuning process is far from easy and far from done by any means on my car (or yours apparently). But I still find it hard to believe that using all this high quality equipment with processing power etc, that it is so elusive to get what I (we) are looking for. A while back I had removed the dsp from the signal path and simply had the LC6-1200 running the sub, rear channels and front tweeter and mid-bass through my spare 2 way passive crossovers and it sounded good! Yes i needed to mess with gains etc to get it right but man, WTF. I feel like trying something like that again to test and see what it sounds like.

I hear you about the heat man, its sweltering here day and night. Most of the time its 90 in the afternoon and 88 at night😆! And yes it can get uncomfortable to tune in the heat but there really is no real way around it. Although with my Bluetooth option I might be able to sit in the living room and tune from the comfort of a/c! REW doesn't have a ton of points on my system based on my limited knowledge of using the EQ function of REW. I will attempt to input all the settings I came up with and try it out at some point, whether I do it later this week or sneak away for an hour for lunch to do it in the car using the dongle.I hope with some effort and the SUPER HELPFUL MEMBERS of this forum (really cant thank everyone enough) I can get to where it sounds like I want it to, or at least really close.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

spwath said:


> I would raise the gain a bit (if you have the room to raise the gain without clipping). EQing to get higher has its own issues, raising the gain is the best option if you can.
> 
> Yeah, at least to me, my midbass seems very good. I just sealed my doors, and that's it. One thing it could be, I think my sub is crossed kinda high, like 80 hz I think. There was a topic somewhere about using a sub to get better midbass, as the door locations can have issues, so it could be that. Looking at your measurements I would guess you sub is crossed somewhere around 60 hz?


Spwath,

Do you have your sub and MB at 80 or are they separated? I used the 60/80 split with my 10". 

Btw THX, the first chance I get I think I will swap out my GB10D2 for a GB12D4. I am kinda kicking myself for not "going big". I almost picked one up in the classifieds the other day, but unfortunately the deal fell through. The only thing is I don't know if my enclosure will take at 12 without me tearing it up. I'd probably have to offload it on NASOIC.


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> Spwath,
> 
> Do you have your sub and MB at 80 or are they separated? I used the 60/80 split with my 10".
> 
> Btw THX, the first chance I get I think I will swap out my GB10D2 for a GB12D4. I am kinda kicking myself for not "going big". I almost picked one up in the classifieds the other day, but unfortunately the deal fell through. The only thing is I don't know if my enclosure will take at 12 without me tearing it up. I'd probably have to offload it on NASOIC.


Pretty sure both at 80. I wouldn't think you would want to cross them at different frequencies...


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Most of what I've (Andy's guide) shows spreading them apart, like 60/80, to avoid cancellation.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I initially had mine set up with the 60-80 split but my measurements were at what i had been listening to lately 
80
80-500
500-5000
5000-20000

All 24db LW

Flyer, did you get the driver's or the passenger side? I think you had ordered the passenger side but if you've got the driver's side.... LOL

On a side note i think i may have blown or damaged my sub or sub amp, accidentally maxed out the volume while streaming by holding the volume up button accidentally and i heard a ton of distortion and even bothered my ears for a moment. I'll check later or tomorrow.

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I will try 80 for the sub. The rest of my X-overs are 80-400, 400-4000 and 4000+.

I got the passenger side.

Uh oh... hopefully not! 🤞


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

I hope the x over change helps you out man. 

As for my sub might have just worked one of the voicecoil wires loose and running on only one. Major drop in volume but speaker sounds ok when i put my ear to it. I'll pull the sub out tomorrow or tonight if i get a chance. I really hope it's that. 


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Couldn't help myself pulled the sub out. Ok seems I dodged a bullet! Pulled the speaker and the wires seemed ok. Pushed the come down and let it come up, no noise or scraping, during secure and spider also. Powered up the system and the sub was barely moving, decided to check if the fact it wasn't in the box made a difference. It's odd, as i was putting it into the enclosure it came back to life. I must have a wire not making proper contact somewhere on the speaker, or so i thought. 

Bolted the sub back in fully and it sounded great again, while stressing from the Bluetooth adapter, changed over to the head unit for Bluetooth on the same song, output noticeably lower. Swapped back to the DSP dongle and volume comes back to normal. Radio same lowish output, back to dongle, loud. Thought it might be a setting in the DSP that somehow got changed and couldn't find anything.

While i was in the app for the DSP, while listening to music i tried swapping polarity on each channel independently to see if there was any change with respect to the mid bass/range. Leaving it as normal in phase was by far the best sounding. Took the time to put in all the EQ changes i came up with in REW. Need to measure again, but it's still lacking in mid bass. 

I think the sub issue might have been a quirk, will monitor it over the next few days to see if there's anything off again, right now sounds normal as before. Odd but I'll take it over having any damage. 

Flyer, did you ever decide to use the threaded inserts to bolt down your sub to the enclosure, it did you stick with the screws you had before? I'm gonna have to change to those as the screw holes have been a bit over used. It's on there but i feel the inserts would be better. Spoke to the guys at Wicked a month or so ago and they said regular inserts work fine but maybe use a bit of glue on them to prevent any leaks or backing out. 




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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

Ok, i just took a measurement to compare my car to yours. Seems the dip at 1000k-3000k ish could be car acoustics related, or we both just have things similary set up. Overall the systems are pretty similarly set up. I can see why you say too much tweeters though.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

OK that is an interesting comparison there. for both of us to have the dip in that range I agree must be something with the cabin. Are you running a 3 way setup? If so where are your mids and tweeters? I've got a pretty significant drop in the sub between 65-95 which I find odd and disappointing. Yeah the tweeters are a bit loud there, LOL. I wonder if its due to my mounting choice (a pillars basically firing at each other, so in the drivers seat the left tweet is basically perpendicular to me. You definitely don't have a mid-bass dip compared to my peaky mess. I put in the EQ recommendations as per REW and have to remeasure. I don't feel it was a better result (wife didn't think so either) based on listening only. Once I re-measure will post the results. Tropical Storm coming through this weekend so I'm not sure I'll be able to do so this weekend but lets see how it goes. Thanks again for the comparison!


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Frequentflyer said:


> Those CarAV mounts look nice.
> 
> I think I am going to pull my door panels off again to investigate. I have a feeling something is touching either both or one of my GB60's. Whether it is the foam ring or what, I have no idea, but I am getting weird responses out of them. Pics in my build thread.


Times two on that one mate...huge props for the CarAV find and also the NVX baffles...we are obviously in winter down here and I noticed some water in the doors when I was adding sound deadening which left me a little concerned (prior to removal of the OEM plastic weather proof piece as well!). Hopefully delivery doesn't take that long but at that price I can't pass those mounts up. 
Believe it or not - despite the fact that the Metra ones are both right handed or whatever - they aren't available in Australia and I have to import from the US 🤦‍♂️  so that CarAv find really makes a MASSIVE difference for me mate, really appreciated!
Sorry to squirt this is as I know you guys are going full on at REW/RTA stuff...


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Here are some measurements I just took, this set is using the RTA measurement function for each speaker independently using mono pink noise. I have the files if requested to send.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

And here is a set using the measurement function and the sweep it does on each speaker independently as well.Did apply 1/48 filtering for the tweeters so its not a jagged mess.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Try using a 5db scale on the left hand side when you tune.

Below is a 5db scale and then a 20db. You can see how you lose a lot of detail with the 20db.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

And here are measurement of the midranges 3 additional ways

cup enclosure no grille
no cup no grille
no cup with grille 
all 3 versions left and right separately


just an exercise in checking differences


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> Try using a 5db scale on the left hand side when you tune.
> 
> Below is a 5db scale and then a 20db. You can see how you lose a lot of detail with the 20db.
> 
> ...


Damn, sorry didn't see this till now, soon as i get back to the computer I'll try to figure out how to change the scale and update the results. 

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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> OK that is an interesting comparison there. for both of us to have the dip in that range I agree must be something with the cabin. Are you running a 3 way setup? If so where are your mids and tweeters? I've got a pretty significant drop in the sub between 65-95 which I find odd and disappointing. Yeah the tweeters are a bit loud there, LOL. I wonder if its due to my mounting choice (a pillars basically firing at each other, so in the drivers seat the left tweet is basically perpendicular to me. You definitely don't have a mid-bass dip compared to my peaky mess. I put in the EQ recommendations as per REW and have to remeasure. I don't feel it was a better result (wife didn't think so either) based on listening only. Once I re-measure will post the results. Tropical Storm coming through this weekend so I'm not sure I'll be able to do so this weekend but lets see how it goes. Thanks again for the comparison!


So i just have a two way setup. 6.5" woofer in stock location, tweeter mounted on door panel in the little window area by the A pillar, firing basically on axis toward my ears. Here is a picture of my old tweeters mounted, my new ones are in the same position basically. I forgot where crossover is, maybe around 3k Hz i think.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Not sure if I'm stupid, dumb or just plain blind, how do i change to a 5db scale as you recommended?

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

+/- signs in the top left of plot below "dB".


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

OK, so all of the above, damn! like this?


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Yes. Also, you can click the "limits" button up top right and set your limits. Something like 10-100 on the dB and 20 - 20,000 Hz on the freq range.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> Yes. Also, you can click the "limits" button up top right and set your limits. Something like 10-100 on the dB and 20 - 20,000 Hz on the freq range.


Gotcha



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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Interesting to see that the enclosure is boosting midrange frequencies by about 10db in the low end of the frequency range. That's quite significant!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Seems the enclosures did add something notable to the midrange. Great verification that the GS-25 at least,likes having and enclosure even if it is small.

Below is an RTA and Sweep recording of the system as of today. Let me know your thoughts or comments.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

You're probably looking for something that looks like this:










We spoke about this the other day, but with only 10 bands of EQ, you're kind of limited to how refined you're going to get your response, especially with the dash speakers. Having the midranges and/or tweeters in the dash locations really introduces some funky responses and needs a lot of processing power (30+ band parametric EQ) to flatten things out. I've spent HOURS just to get my tweeters flattened out and just moving on to the midranges now.


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

Yeah, that is the good thing about my helix. I think 30 eq bands, and the auto tuning function will fix everything to your house curve for you.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Yeah, I know you're right that is the curve I'm looking for. And yes I'm sure I'm limited to what I can do with the DSP-408 10 band EQ. I'm gonna have to tweak as much as I can with what I've got until I can get the Helix I want, selling a BNIB LC6-1200 is a good starting point, LOL!

But here's the thing I had mentioned I wanted to try going retro using passive crossovers etc to see what it would look like. And guess what, that's what those to pics above are, The 6.5's and tweeters on a set of passive crossovers from my old Infinity's, the rear doors as fill and nothing else,not even a sub (thought I might get lucky, but no).

I took the Dayton out of the loop, took the head unit output to the A.C. amp and that's it. semi stock setup just with better crossovers and more power. And you know, its not half bad like that, plenty of mid bass/bass from the front doors where they should be. I know you were concerned with the lack of mid-bass from the GB60's Flyer, but let me tell ya plenty fine with the GS60's output. So rest assured its in there to extract! 

Unfortunately the high level in to the LC6 isn't converted to the Line Out RCA's of the amp to provide signal to the Sub amp. But Its not horrible without it, obviously missing what an actual sub adds but still not bad for a stock-ish setup.

I'm going to go back and put the DSP back in there and start tuning the crap out of what I've got as FrequentFlyer mentioned. Hopefully I can make this at least sound as good as I feel it sounds now using the DSP. 

What gets me and I can't seem to find a good answer to it is, why does a simple 2 way passive crossover provide a better sounding experience ( to my ear at least ) than a DSP with the same slopes and points? I compared 2 songs to try out, Jealousy by Pet Shop Bots and Secrets by One Republic. In both instances I had mid-bass up front where it should be vs the DSP setup, the crescendo towards the end of Jealousy is actually impactful instead of a whimper, and Secrets comes through loud and clear.I know that timing has a ton to do with where bass is perceived and I watched ErinH's video on that subject intently.

I will no doubt have to do much more sitting and adjusting on the DSP to get the results I feel Ishould have with so much extra processing and flexibility. 

Time to let this damn storm go through and get everything back in the loop and take a proper stab at this thing. Frequent i will follow your lead on the tuning aspect and concentrate on only one section/speaker at a time in order to have the best chance at the results you have.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Wow, I thought that was with a sub. You've got a pretty good peak there at 55hz.

You'll be a lot happier with the Helix, whenever you can go that route. I basically took something that looked like this:










And made it look like this:










Like I said, I needed every bit of 30 bands of parametric EQ to do this. I could probably use some more, but I think if I played around with some of the Q-values, I could have gotten away with using fewer bands. This took a lot of time and I still plan on tweaking it a bit in the 2-5k slope region.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> Wow, I thought that was with a sub. You've got a pretty good peak there at 55hz.


 LMAO, yeah surprising yet nice to know the speakers can put it out, not sure how much the rears added to that if at all. Couldn't get the sub to have signal but again not bad at all. I feel the Helix is going to be the way to go for sure. Time to actually sell off that spare amp I've got instead of having it collect dust. 

That's a mighty impressive change you made to your (tweet) sound man! If I understand, you basically sat in the car with pink noise playing and raised and lowered bands until you got there, per speaker and then the pair? I would assume you had ear plugs or headphones on? Thanks again for the inspiration! And yeah both of you are right, Helix in the future.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

So I might piss a few people off with this but here goes, I got myself a Kicker Keyloc to tryout. Free so why why the heck not?! I am posting the results below, no EQ but with time alignment best i could based on ErinH's website. Interesting how temp and humidity changes the delay results slightly. 

Even though I thought the car sounded decent with the passive crossovers, rear "fill" and no sub, I definitely miss the sub a great deal. Not to mention I'd be "wasting" the GS-25's by not using them. So i went back to active 3 way no fill (for now) with the Keyloc to give the Dayton its best chance at the results I hope to achieve. 

I will, over the next couple days, sit in the car and manually try to even out the results. Maybe I'll set a base line EQ using REW and the tweak after to give myself a bit of a head start. Also need to sort out an alternator whine at first start up only (about 1-3 seconds) that has been bothering me since i put in the Dayton.May be due to the fact the Dayton has single ended RCA's vs everything else having differential. Using twisted pair interconnects by the way. 

Wish me luck!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> So I might piss a few people off with this but here goes, I got myself a Kicker Keyloc to tryout. Free so why why the heck not?! I am posting the results below, no EQ but with time alignment best i could based on ErinH's website. Interesting how temp and humidity changes the delay results slightly.
> 
> Even though I thought the car sounded decent with the passive crossovers, rear "fill" and no sub, I definitely miss the sub a great deal. Not to mention I'd be "wasting" the GS-25's by not using them. So i went back to active 3 way no fill (for now) with the Keyloc to give the Dayton its best chance at the results I hope to achieve.
> 
> ...


It's not looking too bad. This is with no EQ? Looks like your tweeters drop off a lot after 10k. Is this on purpose? 

I plan on RTA'ing my midrange with the IB mount I made before I designed my enclosures. I am curious how it changes the response. I want to make sure I am not choking those GB25's out with too small of an enclosure.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Thanks! Yes, that's no EQ, it's flat on the radio and the DSP. Only thing i have different is a 5db drop in level from the EQ on the tweeter channels. Otherwise i feel they're too bright for my ears at times.

If i recall correctly the GB 25 is designed to be a mid-range where my GS 25 is designed to be a wideband. You saw the difference in my response before and after so it's be interesting to see how it changes yours. Yes the enclosure is small but then again, I wouldn't think that cone of pumping in and out like a midbass or sub. Looking forward to the results man!

On a side note, getting rid of the Dayton, the alternator/engine whine is definitely caused by the unit itself, it's there only until the DSP "boots"up. For now gonna run DSP free but active using my Keyloc and lc6-1200. PE will either replace or refund me. Not sure till I call tomorrow.

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Well, really need to thank Parts Expressv for a quick and easy experience. Called then up and reclaimed my issues they had absolutely 0 issues giving me a refund on my DSP. Can't exchange it as it was a restock but money back ain't bad and it'll go towards the Helix i hope to get. And soon! LOL

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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

In response to your other thread, your reference curve is very uninteresting to my ears. I was hesitant to say anyting to this point, but your post in the other thread indicates you're spending lots of money to try and add some "thickness" to your system. That thickness doesn't come from the sub, it comes from your midbass being quite a bit louder than your midrange. You should look at how much DB boost most curves offer by the time you're moving down to 400, 300, 200hz. Lots of boost on most curves. You've tuned your car completely flat through this region.

Try using the ATF default curve in the autotune. It will take you 5 minutes to figure it out and tune two drivers. 

It's even too thick for my tastes.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

@opekone I appreciate the honesty, worth more to me than pats on the back,LOL. I thankfully have not had to spend much beyond my initial outlay of equipment. My supplier was super helpful and took back my original D6.1200 and swapped it for me for another LC6.1200 plus a Pioneer GM-D9701 as I wanted a mono for my sub. I was able to sell the LC6-.1200 and get the Helix with no added cost. The Dayton I had was only $70 as it was a re-stock unit, thanks to great Parts Express service they are refunding me the full amount. The KEYLOC also didn't cost me anything, and should be now be providing a flat as possible signal into the Helix. Once I get the Helix in and installed I will definitely re-measure everything and attempt that process using the ATF software. I already downloaded it and am tinkering with it to get acclimated with it

I agree that what I feel I'm missing the most of is in the Mid-bass region and will work on that. I feel I have a pretty good install on pretty much everything, physically at least. If there is any suggestion please feel free. Will follow up as i progress with this.

As you saw my other thread, what are your feelings on my options?


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Been a while but finally getting back to this thing at last. I've played with 2 way, 3 way, rear fill, no fill etc. I liked the 2 way with a bit of rear fill but as I've already got a full 3 way so installed i figured I'd give it a proper go before ditching those plans.

I've got the following system now, stock head unit to Kicker Keyloc to HELIX DSP 2 to Audio Contro LC6.1200 and Pioneer GM-D9701. Speakers have not changed Audio Frog GS 10,25 and 60 up front Rockford P3D2-10 Diamond Audio DES-652 rear doors (unused at the moment). Crossovers are set at LR24db sub to 80, midbass 90-500, midrange 500-5000 tweeter 5000 on up. 

On to what I've got right now after my measurements the other day. 

When comparing RTA measurements of all the speakers I've got an interesting set of results. 

Left and right tweeters each have a slight peak of 69db, left at 10k right at 7k

Left and right mid-range reach have a peak of 64db left at 2.2k right at 2.8k

Left and right midbass is interesting to say the least. Left has a peak at 58.5db @125 hz while the right has a peak of 69 @178 hz

Now on the tone sweeps it's even more interesting. 

Left and right tweeters are about even, left 90db @ 6k right 92db @ 7.6k.

Left and right mid-range have a wide disparity of left 69db @ 950hz and right 90 db @850 hz

Left and right midbass are also wide apart, left 79 db @370 and right 96db! @ 183hz.

All the recordings were made with me in the passenger seat and the microphone where my head would approximately be in the driver's seat. 

I need to go back and duplicate the readings to be sure there wasn't some sort of error etc when i was recording. I know for a fact i didn't touch the volume at all, all i did was turn off and on all the channels using the HELIX as needed for the recordings. 

If i can duplicate the results reliably it means I've got a signal issue coming from somewhere. Be it the head unit, the kicker Keyloc or the Helix itself. I will also make sure the amplifier output voltage is even across the channels. I have read that the Subaru head units have a difference in level left to right. And i have also read they have all pass filters. Both of these are supposed to be eliminated with the Keyloc. I have the output voltage on the Keyloc at 3.8-3.9v (it's got a max of 10v) going into the Helix. As the Helix has an input rating of 4v at least i know I'm not over driving it.

Anyways any input is appreciated and welcome of course. I need to bring an end to this long and drawn out process. An honest concerted effort on my part now that i have all the equipment needed to do that. I honestly have not done that and really need to. I will not be able to do anything the weekend of Nov 7 as I'll be out of town. But i hope to be able to get some progress after work (get home at 7pm) and on the weekends. 

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

It's hard to tell what's going on without REW plots, but I think you could get close with a round or two of REW EQ and then manual fine tuning with the Helix.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> It's hard to tell what's going on without REW plots, but I think you could get close with a round or two of REW EQ and then manual fine tuning with the Helix.


I get what you're saying but that's 10db and more of difference that's a lot to EQ out. Wouldn't it be better to try and figure out the cause of the difference first?

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Ok, first question; you bought your Helix used, correct? Is everything zeroed out and back to factory default settings? Below is my front stage with no EQ. As you can see, lots of peaks and dips that are not symmetrical that I was eventually able to flatten out a lot. I would suggest sitting in the driver's seat holding the mic and sweeping back and forth. I would check all your levels in the Helix.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Yes i did a reset on the Helix by holding the button down for a few seconds to it blinked etc. Was gonna try also doing the reset procedure in the software but figured the hardware button was just as good. The peaks and valleys I'm not so concerned of as i agree that they should be able to be EQ'd out but 10 or more db difference as a whole is too much (in my mind) to eq out. Maybe you mean to adjust the level of the channel on the Helix software?

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Small update, after having the trunk apart and not being able to use it for about a month, I've remedied that at least. I thought about what I'd like to do and what I'd like to be able to do down the line without tearing it apart again. So i ran a pair of USB cables from the Helix (one for usb audio the other for pc use) and also finally ran the wire for my URC 3. Even though I'm not sure it matters I ran all 3 along the passenger side of the car as the drivers side has the 0 ga power wires in it. Couldn't find a definitive answer if the power wire could induce noise poor not into these so I figured better safe than sorry. I was afraid the URC3 and USB cables wouldn't be long enough but thankfully they were!. The URC3 cable made it from the trunk down the pass side up the kick panel behind the glove box through the AC case and to the fuse box cover with about 8 inches to spare, whew! The USB cables were a little shorter but i can easily access them through the glove box. I can route then elsewhere if i want to down the line. Finally trunk is back to normal and useable again!

Thanks to @Frequentflyer for a set of REW EQ files that I'm gonna load up a little later today. He's been super helpful and generous. I'll be 3d printing his URC 3 mount soon to mount onto the fuse box cover, i like the way it looks. I'll also be attaching the bass knob for the Pioneer amp to it as I had already ran that before. It'll be a 2 for 1 fuse cover !

Must admit after using the automatic time measurement tool built into the HELIX software the sound stage seems a lot better to me. I'm sure with the gifted REW EQ files it'll sound even better! I'll report back and have some measurements soon as I have them. 

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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

Have you done the automatic frequency response tuning with the helix? You don't even need rew eq files, just set your curve in the helix software, set up your mic, and start it, and it matches the speaker output to the desired curve


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

spwath said:


> Have you done the automatic frequency response tuning with the helix? You don't even need rew eq files, just set your curve in the helix software, set up your mic, and start it, and it matches the speaker output to the desired curve


I will give it a shot for sure, i dabbled with it a bit and a few of the results seemed good, others not so much. I'm gonna first load up frequentflyer's files to see how they come out. Then listen to it and see how it goes. Did you use it with good results?

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

The ATF autotune works OK, but I still needed to fine tune as it doesn't use parametric EQ.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> The ATF autotune works OK, but I still needed to fine tune as it doesn't use parametric EQ.


Soon as load up your files and try my hand at the right side, I'll update the thread. I'm hoping for some honest results as I truly want this to work as is without changing anything more. I've got all the equipment i need after all! LOL 

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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

Just FWIW all USB cables are 5 volts DC...just from a quick google search anyway! I don't think DC suffers the same issues with induced noise as RCA's do (AC voltage I believe...). Helix manual seemed to suggest a little caution if using the inbuilt AutoTune and that sort of put me off that path... that's just my uneducated opinion anyway!


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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

THX0849 said:


> I truly want this to work as is without changing anything more.


Yes...I get the feeling that going to far with it all could become a little frustrating (for just me personally anyway). I don't want to get to the stage where my install becomes laborious, lacks enjoyment anymore, and spends more time 'not tuned yet and therefore turned off' than actually putting tunes out...


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> I will give it a shot for sure, i dabbled with it a bit and a few of the results seemed good, others not so much. I'm gonna first load up frequentflyer's files to see how they come out. Then listen to it and see how it goes. Did you use it with good results?
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


THX,

The only issue I see with the files I gave you is that I didn't use the "in car" measurements you sent me, so they may be a little off. Also, like I mentioned before, you should probably take some measurements at 1/48th octave.


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> The ATF autotune works OK, but I still needed to fine tune as it doesn't use parametric EQ.


What do you mean it doesnt use parametric EQ? I thought it did? what does it use then?

I just used the autotune, and I though my system came out great


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

spwath said:


> What do you mean it doesnt use parametric EQ? I thought it did? what does it use then?
> 
> I just used the autotune, and I though my system came out great


It does not use parametric EQ. I only adjusts graphic EQ at standard spacing. You can see this in the ATF RTA. It works "OK" and does get you a decent sounding system, but you really need to go in there and fine tune with some parametric inputs. After playing around with it a few times, I found I got better results using a round or two of REW EQ (parametric EQ) and then fine tuning "by hand" with more parametric inputs. If you're time crunched, it will get you close and I'd say 90% of the people out there may be happy with the results (or may not even notice the difference), but it's got its flaws. I found it kept adding a lot of boost above 10k for my tweeters and would not maintain my house curve. I have no idea why, but I had to pull everything back down again above 10k after it was done. If it were able to adjust using parametric EQ, it'd be superb.


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## spwath (Apr 7, 2020)

Frequentflyer said:


> It does not use parametric EQ. I only adjusts graphic EQ at standard spacing. You can see this in the ATF RTA. It works "OK" and does get you a decent sounding system, but you really need to go in there and fine tune with some parametric inputs. After playing around with it a few times, I found I got better results using a round or two of REW EQ (parametric EQ) and then fine tuning "by hand" with more parametric inputs. If you're time crunched, it will get you close and I'd say 90% of the people out there may be happy with the results (or may not even notice the difference), but it's got its flaws. I found it kept adding a lot of boost above 10k for my tweeters and would not maintain my house curve. I have no idea why, but I had to pull everything back down again above 10k after it was done. If it were able to adjust using parametric EQ, it'd be superb.


Ah ok, ill have to check that out. i was still pretty sure it was paramentric after i looked at it, but ill double check, maybe try some fine tuning.


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

spwath said:


> Ah ok, ill have to check that out. i was still pretty sure it was paramentric after i looked at it, but ill double check, maybe try some fine tuning.


It's only going to adjust the EQ bands at the standard intervals you see below because those are the EQ bands it is measuring in the RTA. It's not as sophisticated of an RTA as REW is. REW can do 1/48th octave.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Swapped setups and now the freaking thing is stick in a loop! Starting communication, switching setup, endless loop no matter which so I choose it tries to switch. Same usb cable I've always used. Ideas?

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Usb communication light flashing red even though not plugged into the laptop. Held down the button on the unit itself for 10 seconds no change in flashing red. 

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## captainbuff (Mar 11, 2017)

On a Helix DSP I believe that (the flashing red light) means that there is no setup/configuration loaded...?

Just quoting what I believe I remember reading somewhere...could be rubbish but I seem to remember it happening to me at some point...

As to the configuration setup looping...nothing useful from me sorry!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Whew! Fixed it, pulled power plug on the Helix for a few minutes while I cooled down from a momentary flip out. Once i plugged it back in and turned it on I loaded up the ATF software. It immediately stated incorrect software detected and asked me to reinstall. Warned that all memories would be wiped etc. No problem as I had saved stuff prior anyways. Hit yes and it immediately updated and validated firmware and then started communications. I nervously picked setup 1 and loaded up into the software smoothly. And to be honest I think it is faster in operation than before as far as load up and the progress bar speed is also faster.

Instead of loading a possibly corrupt setup file I did a fresh setup from scratch including IO, TIME, XOVERS, etc. Again that went through perfectly as it should. I then loaded up the REW files @Frequentflyer had sent me along with the right side and sub I did (he provided left side complete).I didn't take any measurements as it's 12:30 at night here and I gotta be at work at 6:30! I'll listen to it tomorrow and if I get a chance I'll re-take readings.

@Frequentflyer, prior to this mess that occurred tonight I re-took measurements at 1/48 as you suggested and attempted my own set of EQ filters in REW. If you want those readings let me know. Based on the NO XOVER readings I had taken i brought down the xover points closer to the EQ filters you made up ofr me which you based on 80,400,4000 points. I'm currently at 80 sub 90-420 mb 420-4200 mr and 4200-20k tw. So I figure your set would still work as its pretty close. 

Either way I'll let you guys know how it goes ASAP. Thanks again!


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

So after taking TOO LONG and not taking other members advice i finally changed my head unit!! So many people said that the stock one sucked, that it would never sound good no matter what i did. Well I'm here to tell you YOU ALL WERE RIGHT!!! Oh my freaking God what a damn difference! I know I'm stubborn but damn it i need to break that habit.

I was contemplating a Kenwood 907s and a Joying 9"unit with digital out. When i priced everything out the Joying was about HALF the price shipped vs the Kenwood with all the extra stuff needed to install it. I decided to pull the trigger and get the Joying figuring heck if it didn't sound decent etc I'd sell it and get the Kenwood anyways. 

I'm head over heels happy with my decision, simply turning it on the very first time the difference was immediate and excitement noticable. Upon first start up had to pull the wife away from her home office to come listen. "Wow, that's what it should have sounded like from the beginning" were the first words out of her mouth. And i couldn't agree more. All the time (and money) wasted to try and get something good or of my stock headunit to no avail. Should have changed the stock head unit from the beginning.

Quick synopsis as to my system right now. In the next post. But i had to share this first.









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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

Nice.. I've been rocking the Joying unit for almost 3 years and have done the Android 9 update per their instructions (they are amazing at customer support!!) I had so many pro installers talk smack about these units, saying that they distort very quickly.. well mine went all the way up to 28 of 35 vol. before I got any distortion (which is better than what I got from OEM HU and Pioneer nex system I almost went with).. Has a decent EQ I can use on the fly alongside my Mosconi DSP.. and my son plays minecraft and dota underlords on mine with full Sound Surround!!) I have had no problems in -35 degree weather all the way up to 120 degree F. I have rallyX with this HU in as well.. all still holding up.. for 1/3 the price point with plugin play and all controls (steering, back up cams, etc..) with added full Navigational system, Wifi and Bluetooth.. again mine hasn't missed a beat.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

killadawg said:


> Nice.. I've been rocking the Joying unit for almost 3 years and have done the Android 9 update per their instructions (they are amazing at customer support!!) I had so many pro installers talk smack about these units, saying that they distort very quickly.. well mine went all the way up to 28 of 35 vol. before I got any distortion (which is better than what I got from OEM HU and Pioneer nex system I almost went with).. Has a decent EQ I can use on the fly alongside my Mosconi DSP.. and my son plays minecraft and dota underlords on mine with full Sound Surround!!) I have had no problems in -35 degree weather all the way up to 120 degree F. I have rallyX with this HU in as well.. all still holding up.. for 1/3 the price point with plugin play and all controls (steering, back up cams, etc..) with added full Navigational system, Wifi and Bluetooth.. again mine hasn't missed a beat.


That's good to know man, mine is the latest version with Android 10 out of the box. Everything was quite literally plug and play for me. I had run the RCA's and optical when i first put it in the dash but i unfortunately didn't measure the RCA length and they were too short. I did try them out however by using a set of inline RCA connectors to another set of RCA's to the amp. To be honest I preferred the sound and the signal strength of using the high level (speaker) outputs. So i pulled the RCA's out and ran the optical to the trunk. The darn thing simply looks like it belongs there and came with the car. No comparison to a double din in there. The unit has a ton of options but I'm not using everything yet. Still getting used to it all. 

Maybe you could answer something for me since you've had yours a while now. I can't use the radio and Android Auto at the same time and Waze doesn't work with Android Auto either. Do you have a similar issue? Assuming you use Android that is of course. Right now it's the only "issue" i have with the unit. 

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## pdxlawyer (Jan 5, 2011)

Subies are great cars but I've never been in one that wasn't as noisy as a jet engine.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Ok so after a long time since posting I want to update my setup right now and preview what I "might"be going to. 

I had been running a Helix DSP 2 that i got from a fellow forum member. It also had a URC3 which i ran and "double stacked"it along with the Pioneer's bass knob on the fuse box lid. Super handy location at the time and completely hidden with no cutting or modifying anything. The Helix was taking my front channel L&R high level stock head unit outputs into my Audio Control LC6.1200 and the Pioneer GM-D9701. Got to mess around with the Helix a bit and got somewhat comfortable with the software and was going to upgrade to the DSP 3 to be able to get the input analyzer to tame the crap coming out of the stock head unit. Decided to pull out and sell the Kicker Keyloc and the DSP 2. Once both were pulled and sold,I had the high level radio signal go straight into the AC amp which then split up the signal into the 3 way fronts actively and the RCA output from the AC amp into the Pioneer for sub duty. 

Didn't sound great, not horrible compared to the DSP 2, but at least it was tolerable for the time being until I figured out my next steps. I started contemplating getting my rear doors working again as I really do like hearing a "full cabin". Decided that the Helix V Eight would provide what I wanted 8 channels driven and outputs for the sub. Was concerned that 75 watts wouldn't be enough for the midbass GS60's but everyone I've asked has told me that it would be. Thanks to @SkizeR @Ge0 @HIFI Mobile Audio and others for calming my concerns. 

That's where i was for a while deciding to get the Helix and even contemplated the miniDSP 8x12 with dirac. But then i would need to add another amp to the system and to be honest i really like the idea of an all in one solution. Besides if i want more power or changed midbass speakers i could always use the V Eight outputs as high-level (using RCA's)into another amp and still control it via the DSP. While i was deciding on what to do as way as processor etc i finally came to my senses to get the stock head unit the f out of there. As the Joying unit has 2 USB I installed a dual USB outlet on the front wall of my center console for an easy to get at connection for the phone or anything else i want to plug in. It looks almost as if it belonged there to be honest and didn't want wires sticking out etc. I tidied up the wiring best I could using Tesa tape before putting the Joying in and installed the GPS antenna right above the aircon ducts as they're covered by a relatively thin piece of dash material with a clear view thru the windshield. Got a really nice optical "wire" from Amazon to run to the trunk in foresight to getting a DSP that has optical input. 

So after the update above you know in happier with how it sounds than i even have been before. But here's how is running. The high level F+R channel outputs are going into the AC amp with channels 1+2 running the GS60'S and GS10's through a really nice pair of JL audio passive crossovers that a friend gave me. Channels 3+4 are running the rear doors and the RCA out of the AC amp into the Pioneer sub amp. As mentioned it sounds much much better than before and that's not even using the GS25 in the dash stock locations. I might power them up in the next couple weeks using the spare channels on the AC amp as it's got full crossovers built into it to see how it sounds then. Still have to save up a bit to get the V Eight, but right now i feel no rush to do so. Enjoying the car audio now as much as i enjoy driving it everyday.























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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

pdxlawyer said:


> Subies are great cars but I've never been in one that wasn't as noisy as a jet engine.


LMAO, no they aren't quiet but then again that's not exactly what is designed to be either. I deadened the heck out of my car except for floor and roof and made a good difference. But to be honest i feel the tires night be more of a noise source than the car itself while driving along. Another WRX came in as a trade in a couple weeks ago but has Continentals on it vs my factory Dunlop set. Noticeably quieter at highway speed. Definitely still hear the "car"but better for sure. It was a 2018 with half the miles i have on my car. Nice deal for whoever buys it. 

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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

THX0849 said:


> That's good to know man, mine is the latest version with Android 10 out of the box. Everything was quite literally plug and play for me. I had run the RCA's and optical when i first put it in the dash but i unfortunately didn't measure the RCA length and they were too short. I did try them out however by using a set of inline RCA connectors to another set of RCA's to the amp. To be honest I preferred the sound and the signal strength of using the high level (speaker) outputs. So i pulled the RCA's out and ran the optical to the trunk. The darn thing simply looks like it belongs there and came with the car. No comparison to a double din in there. The unit has a ton of options but I'm not using everything yet. Still getting used to it all.
> 
> Maybe you could answer something for me since you've had yours a while now. I can't use the radio and Android Auto at the same time and Waze doesn't work with Android Auto either. Do you have a similar issue? Assuming you use Android that is of course. Right now it's the only "issue" i have with the unit.
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


I never use the Radio.. so I have not checked for that.. I have used Waze and Google Maps with no issues, you do have to have internet access or it doesn't update (I run my phone tethered in the car for that, Bluetooth and/orr Wi-Fi, works like a charm). I also have the Mosconi Bluetooth adaptors so I can play via a FiiO player.. I also have a lot of high quality downloaded music via Spotify that I play when I don't have internet or without player.. this setup gives me tons of options. I wonder if updating to Android 10 is possible? unity looks identical still.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

So you use Waze by tethering your phone not through Android Auto?

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

THX0849 said:


> LMAO, no they aren't quiet but then again that's not exactly what is designed to be either. I deadened the heck out of my car except for floor and roof and made a good difference. But to be honest i feel the tires night be more of a noise source than the car itself while driving along. Another WRX came in as a trade in a couple weeks ago but has Continentals on it vs my factory Dunlop set. Noticeably quieter at highway speed. Definitely still hear the "car"but better for sure. It was a 2018 with half the miles i have on my car. Nice deal for whoever buys it.
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


I just put some Michelin All Season 4's on mine a few months ago and it's a lot quieter than it used to be with the OE tires, which I believe were Dunlop's (they were just about completely bald). Between that and the amount of sound deadening/isolation I did during my install, my WRX is pretty quiet. There is a little more wind noise at highspeed (70+) than I'd like, but I don't think there's much I can do about that. I'm about to add a turbo back exhaust (resonated/catted J-pipe and resonated cat-back) and a header, so we'll see how much louder that makes the car. I am hoping not much with double resonators.


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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

THX0849 said:


> So you use Waze by tethering your phone not through Android Auto?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


You know.. i just realized how old school I am... I've never used the Android Auto.. 🤣 so I can't answer.. I guess I play most music via Spotify and/or use my FiiO player.. I also don't use gps that much, as I kinda know where I'm going most of the time.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

A little amplifier porn arrived. Might consider relocating to under seat. Let's see if it'll fit properly as the in and out connections are on the "long"side on the amp. Probably won't fisher with it till next weekend though unfortunately. Itching to get this in there and start tuning etc.























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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

killadawg said:


> You know.. i just realized how old school I am... I've never used the Android Auto..  so I can't answer.. I guess I play most music via Spotify and/or use my FiiO player.. I also don't use gps that much, as I kinda know where I'm going most of the time.


Funny, I'm considering getting an older iPhone (or something) to use as a digital source through the optical I've already run in the car. But it's so convenient to use Android Auto for everything else. I think I can set the digital input to have priority automatically so if something comes up on the radio whether it's Android Auto or something else i can pause the digital source and it'll switch over to the radio high level inputs. 

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Frequentflyer said:


> I just put some Michelin All Season 4's on mine a few months ago and it's a lot quieter than it used to be with the OE tires, which I believe were Dunlop's (they were just about completely bald). Between that and the amount of sound deadening/isolation I did during my install, my WRX is pretty quiet. There is a little more wind noise at highspeed (70+) than I'd like, but I don't think there's much I can do about that. I'm about to add a turbo back exhaust (resonated/catted J-pipe and resonated cat-back) and a header, so we'll see how much louder that makes the car. I am hoping not much with double resonators.


Been thinking of doing an exhaust also just hate to have it drone in the car. I'm about to change tires in a month or two as they're pretty worn but looks worse than it is. These Dunlop's have the shoulder and inner rib sipes wear out quickly but the main section still measures in the "yellow" 5-6mm. 

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## killadawg (Apr 29, 2018)

THX0849 said:


> Been thinking of doing an exhaust also just hate to have it drone in the car. I'm about to change tires in a month or two as they're pretty worn but looks worse than it is. These Dunlop's have the shoulder and inner rib sipes wear out quickly but the main section still measures in the "yellow" 5-6mm.
> 
> Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk


If you do, make sure you get a resonated jpipe and midpipe.. if not it will drone!


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

I put a Perrin resonated cat-back on mine and it's pretty close to stock, just a bit deeper in tone. No drone. I've got a Cobb resonated J-pipe going in soon as well along with a KillerB header (and a tune). Yeah, I'm going all out.... hehe


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

That's pretty much exactly what I would do to mine. And a nice set of axle backs. Thanks for the feedback on the no drone, can't stand it. It's not a performance upgrade as a sound upgrade, but i see you've got that covered soon! I'll probably do a tune in mine to start. I'm actually pretty happy with my car as it is but i do want to get the throttle response lag fixed and i feel a bit of a "pause"in power at about 4k. Tune should take care of both i hope. 

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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

What's nice about this car is there is such a huge aftermarket for it. We've got a lot of choices. I did a lot of research on what the quietest cat-backs were and the Perrin was one of very few. It is 3" piping, but with the large resonator, doesn't sound any different than stock on the highway. Even at wide-open throttle in low gears it doesn't sound much louder than stock, but it's a got a deeper, more refined tone, which is nice. I definitely didn't want to have my audio system competing with my exhaust after spending all that time and money on it. Cat-back's don't add much power to this car until you open up the rest of the exhaust. The J-pipe is definitely the bottleneck.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Ok so after a year and a half the Soundskin Pro is holding up perfectly. No melting or loss of adhesion or material coming apart or anything. Not gonna say i did a world class application as i had to close up gaps and holes with pieces but it's pretty damn well sealed up. The speaker adapter and the NVX silicone "fast ring" i no longer feel it's choking the back of the speaker in any way. There's about an inch of space between the speaker basket and the walls of the silicone ring. Speaker is perfect in there and has no signs of water on it as the back side of the ring cone extends beyond the back of the speaker magnet. Any opinion or suggestions on this are of course welcome.



This "inspection" is due to a friend printing up a set of 3D speaker adapters (thanks to @Mtuna ) . Whereupon after applying sealing rope to the 3D printed speaker adapter i proceeded to attempt to install them only to find..... They're both for the drivers side! Not sure if i neglected to tell him to "mirror" the print or not but it's up to me to check it and verify. Stupid yet easy to make mistake. It did allow me to make sure everything in the door was good though. 

I'll have him print up a mirrored version and try again but I'm not sure it's worth it after this tear down. It seems pretty well done. Again feel free to point out anything wrong or missing. 

I finally installed and got up and running my Helix V Eight. It replaced the AC LC 6.1200 I had. So now the current and hopefully FINAL setup is the V Eight along with a mono sub amp. Currently the sub amp is the Pioneer GM D9701 but I'm going to replace it with the Toro MR3 800w RMS is more than the 500w RMS the speaker is rated at anyways but it allows me flexibility in mounting location if i chose to later due to the tiny footprint. With no tuning other that crossover and timing settings is sounds better than any of my prior setups and tunes.

































































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## Bass Face (May 31, 2021)

What a journey. Thanks for posting about this. I am having a similar 3-way setup done in my Toyota. From what I read your dash locations are the same as mine. I will be using the same AF driver. After reading all of this I am getting a it nervous. On the bright side, Andy stands by his product ad is super helpful.


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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

What you nervous about? Hit me up with any questions no worries at all. 

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## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Well after a two and a half year audio journey I had my car sounding AMAZING!!! Thanks to a remote tune from Nick (I'm sure some of you must have seen my post about it). I had my car for just over 3 years and I decided to take a test drive of the new 2022. Long story short, I now have a Sapphire Blue 2022 WRX Premium! This car is just so much smoother in every single aspect from the drive to the fit and finish. 

It took me just over 5 hours to remove EVERYTHING I had installed and returned my car back to stock to the point it was impossible to tell anything had been done to it! Only thing that's noticeable is the solid THUD you hear from closing my doors due to the sound deadening I had done. Someone is gonna inherit a ready to go audio platform if they chose! 

I will be of course transferring as much as I can to the new car ASAP! 

Thanks to everyone for your feedback, ideas and recommendations on this journey!!


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