# My 2006 Scion xB modular midbass baffles



## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Picture time!

First up, a shot of the four primary layers of the baffles! From the metal of the door inwards, the layers will be arranged as follows: 1/16" CCF as a gasket; the black ABS "trident"; CCF; the MDF trident; CCF; the ABS circle; CCF(?); the cork ring, CCF(?); the MDF ring where the speaker will be mounted. I'm assembling the layers with socket-cap 8-32 machine screws and some flanged threaded inserts I got from McMaster-Carr. The screws will be a loose fit through most of the layers to allow for some imperfections in the hole spacing, but the top layer will have the speaker firmly affixed to the MDF ring. I may or may not put in some aluminum spacers to tighten things up around the machine screws.



I used my Dremel router attachment to trim the MDF tridents to the shape of the ABS tridents. I got the ABS pieces from that banner-ad company on DIYMA (carspeakeradapters.com or something):



Most of the edges were rounded-over with my 1/8" radius Dremel router bit, then I went over everything with a sanding sponge:



I've painted one side of each of the tridents with some Rustoleum bedliner spray like Bing uses. I still need to do the other sides, as well as the speaker rings:







My cameraphone and flash doesn't really do the finish justice, but I'll try to take better pictures later. I'm pleased with the finish so far. It's smooth, even, and the texture is very minimal.

The top MDF ring where the speaker will be mounted will be replaceable with another ring for a different size of speaker. In the pictures above, the rings are sized for a 5.25" speaker, but I've planned rings for 6.5" speakers. In the future, I may be able to adapt the baffles for 8" speakers - that's why I built them to be modular.

More pictures will follow as I finish them up and get them mounted!


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

visibility bump


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Any feedback?


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## Xandr (Jan 17, 2011)

maybe there is nothing to comment....?


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## b&camp (Jan 27, 2011)

Great idea. I'm considering doing something similar with my new trunk baffle/IB setup.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

My thinking is that by having multiple layers of differing materials and densities, I can create a baffle that's coupled to the speaker but isolated from the vibration of the door.


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## tintbox (Oct 25, 2008)

I'm in. I'm always chasing some sort of rattle. Although a lot these days. Good luck. Looks good so far.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Status update: I've finished spraying both sides of the "tridents", and I've sprayed one of two sides of the MDF rings that the speakers will be mounted to. I'll need to fabricate a second pair for my 6.5" mids, as well.

Does anybody know what size bolts and nuts are used to secure Toyota speaker baffles to the doors? M5 or M6 or something like that? Thx.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

HondAudio said:


> visibility bump





HondAudio said:


> Any feedback?





Xandr said:


> maybe there is nothing to comment....?



IMO...I don't see anything special, maybe a case of overkill


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

UPDATE:

I finished covering the MDF pieces with the bedliner spray. I have screwed the threaded inserts into the 'tridents', but I had to open up the holes on the speaker rings a bit more to accomodate their respective threaded inserts. I may need to hit the MDF rings with one more quick coat of the bedliner, but maybe not...

I'm basically ready to assemble everything. Too bad the doors aren't ready to receive the baffles yet


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

UPDATE

I owe this thread a few more pictures, but:

* The bedliner-covered MDF tridents and rings are finished and the threaded inserts are installed.
* I have picked up enough 1/16" CCF for the gaskets - I just need to cut it.
* I have all the hardware needed to assemble the layers
* Once the doors are ready, I can install them and get my 5.25" speakers running. As mentioned before, I also need to create mounting rings for my 6.5" midbasses and hit them with the bedliner spray and threaded inserts. Once I've installed the 6.5" speakers in the doors, I can consider putting the 5.25s in as rear fill.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Picture time:

Here's the MDF rings for the 5.25" mids, sprayed with the same bedliner:









Here's the bottom of the rings above, showing the flanged threaded inserts I'm using to secure the midbasses. The 'tridents' received the same:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

ooooo WHERE do you get those little pyramid stands?!?!?


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

HondAudio said:


> My thinking is that by having multiple layers of differing materials and densities, I can create a baffle that's coupled to the speaker but isolated from the vibration of the door.


I never was able to get rid of resonance in my XB. when the door handle is making noise, and you can hear it from the inside through the window strip, there wasn't much I could do about that. at least not at the volume I like to play music often. 

kick panels were my savior. 

looks great!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

jtaudioacc said:


> I never was able to get rid of resonance in my XB. when the door handle is making noise, and you can hear it from the inside through the window strip, there wasn't much I could do about that. at least not at the volume I like to play music often.
> 
> kick panels were my savior.
> 
> looks great!


yeah its just wonderful when you get things that rattle in the door that you CANNOT get to, such as the mechanism and stuff inside a window switch panel lol

comon JT, you should be fabbing a just a single pair of 6inch full range ultra widebanders into the corners of your dash.


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## momotaro (May 3, 2006)

simplicityinsound said:


> ooooo WHERE do you get those little pyramid stands?!?!?


Painter's Pyramids with New Tab Feature, 10-Pack - Rockler Woodworking Tools


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

awesome! thanks! now i just need to make sure i dont forget and sit on one


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

simplicityinsound said:


> ooooo WHERE do you get those little pyramid stands?!?!?


Home Depot, in the paint department:

Painter's Pyramids (10-Pack)-43510 at The Home Depot

Do NOT buy them from a specialty woodworking store, as they will be easily twice as much as the 'Depot. Even Amazon costs more.

I got the RustOleum bedliner spray there, too


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

simplicityinsound said:


> yeah its just wonderful when you get things that rattle in the door that you CANNOT get to, such as the mechanism and stuff inside a window switch panel lol
> 
> comon JT, you should be fabbing a just a single pair of 6inch full range ultra widebanders into the corners of your dash.


That's the dream in my xB, as well, but it might require reconstructing everything under the dash. I had enough trouble this afternoon taking out my head unit to look for loose wiring and putting it back in. I think I might have found the reason for my sometimes-malfunctioning steering wheel buttons:

Water got into the connection between the USB lead and the iPod cable I had in the car. I disconnected them and tried to clean it all out with a connection-cleaning pen from Radio Shack. I'll see if that was the culprit, but it's staying disconnected for now


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## mitchyz250f (May 14, 2005)

I have always had trouble with MDF falling apart over time. The last set of MDF baffles I did I soaked in a diluted (20:1) polyester resin for an hour. I read that the diluted resin would soak deep into the pores and make the MDF completely water proof. Then I coated it 100% polyester resin. 

Four months later it was falling apart which really sucked after putting all the work into it.

Any movement you speaker chasis makes will take away from true sound reproduction. I say get a good size baffle attach to the door the best you can. Then deaden the door like crazy. Run frequency sweeps and locate the source of the vibrations and treat them like the bitches they are.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

mitchyz250f said:


> I have always had trouble with MDF falling apart over time. The last set of MDF baffles I did I soaked in a diluted (20:1) polyester resin for an hour. I read that the diluted resin would soak deep into the pores and make the MDF completely water proof. Then I coated it 100% polyester resin.
> 
> Four months later it was falling apart which really sucked after putting all the work into it.
> 
> Any movement you speaker chasis makes will take away from true sound reproduction. I say get a good size baffle attach to the door the best you can. Then deaden the door like crazy. Run frequency sweeps and locate the source of the vibrations and treat them like the bitches they are.


I sprayed the MDF with bedliner to make it resist moisture. I live in Arizona, and it rarely rains here, so I think the spray will be sufficient. The other layers are plastic, cork, or closed-cell foam, all of which are sufficiently water-resistant by themselves.

I don't know if I've fully elaborated my thinking on these, but I'm aiming to isolate the movement of the speaker's cone from the vibration in the door, so that neither one can affect each other. 

The various material densities and the CCF should serve to decouple the speaker from the door, so the frame is "floating" but still sealed to the door to keep the front and back waves apart.

I'm not an engineer - I don't know how well this will work, but it can't hurt to try


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## mitchyz250f (May 14, 2005)

I agree in Arizona you should not have a problem.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

UPDATE:

I've been working on some larger MDF rings to hold 6.5" midbasses. Due to the diameter of the 8 holes in the rings pictured above and the mounting diameter of the midbasses, I'm drilling 16 holes: 8 @ 6-1/16" diameter, and 8 @ 6-1/8". 

I have to pay close attention to what I'm doing - I'm countersinking the holes for machine screws on the 6-1/16" circle, then countersinking from the other side of the MDF on the 6-1/8" circle for threaded inserts. The machine screws that hold the "sandwich" of layers together will be hidden underneath the mounting flange of the woofer when I'm finished 

I had to do it this way, because the mounting holes on the woofer flange have no wiggle room for the screws, and if I tried to work from that diameter, I might have had to redo all the layers I made above!


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

UPDATE: the MDF rings have been cut, countersinked, rounded over, and are halfway finished with the bedliner spray. Up next, I may have to cut some new cork rings, but everything else is easy enough to assemble once I pick up the right socket-cap screws


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Here's a couple of shots of the new MDF rings with the bedliner spray on 'em:

Tops:








Bottoms:









I know they look similar on both sides, but the smaller and larger holes are at different diameters, and are countersunk on opposite sides of the rings, respectively.

The socket-cap screws that will hold the baffles together will be countersunk on the "tops" of the rings, and through the holes which are set at a diameter of 6-1/16". This was necessary because the mounting flange of the JL woofers will cover them. The JL mids will be fastened to the rings with threaded inserts, which are inserted from the "bottoms" of the MDF in the holes set at a diameter of 6-1/8".

Here's how I cut the rings and got the two sets of holes right; my Dremel, the plunge router attachment, and a circle jig:


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

This thread is long-overdue to updates!  I've finished the rings above, sprayed them with bedliner, made new cork and CCF gaskets, and I'm ready to assemble things!


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Finally, I have pictures of my progress! 

First up, the cork-and-CCF gaskets that will be sandwiched between the midbass baffles and the doors. Pictured here is both of them. The CCF side [on the left] will press against the bedliner-coated MDF 'tridents' that provide the base for the baffles. The cork side [on the right] will be against the inner door skin. I chose to arrange them this way because the tridents have some slight protrusions due to the threaded inserts, and the CCF will keep them from contacting any solid surfaces:



Next up is the MDF 'tridents' that anchor the modular midbass baffles and are actually bolted into the door. The white plastic bushings [on the left] will protect the holes in the MDF from the threads of the 10-32 machine screws as well as provide a tiny, but very solid face against which to apply the clamping force of the screws and washers. The threaded inserts [on the right] hold together the various layers of the baffles while keeping them mechanically isolated from the door skin itself:



Up next, another set of cork-and-CCF gaskets. The CCF side [on the left] will be pressed against the MDF speaker rings and will cushion another set of threaded inserts from vibrating against the cork, while the aluminum inserts [on the right], will keep the machine screws from contacting and stripping out the cork, as it's by nature a somewhat brittle material:



Here's the same set of cork-and-CCF rings from above, with the addition of another set of CCF gaskets which will sit between the cork and the MDF tridents previously described:



Up next, the part I'm most proud of - the MDF rings that will hold the layers of the baffles together, as well as provide the mounting surface for my JL Audio C5-650cw midbasses. The two different sets of holes pictured on the left are at two different diameters. The JL midbasses have a bolt-hole diameter of 6-1/8", which corresponds to the smaller holes on the left through which the threaded inserts [as shown on the right] can be seen. The larger, countersunk holes are at a bolt-hole diameter of 6-1/16", which corresponds to the same bolt-hole diameter through the cork-and-CCF gaskets, as well as the threaded inserts mounted in the MDF 'tridents'. The holes are counterbored 3/16" in order to accomodate the 1/8"-tall heads of the 8-32 socket-cap machine screws, as well as some lock washers that are ~1/16" thick. When screwed through all the layers and locked down, the socket-cap screws will be flush to the MDF rings, and then hidden under the mounting flange of the JL midbasses:



Finally, two "assembled" shots of the finalized baffles. First up, a "top" view, as will be seen when they're attached to the metal door skins:



Second, a "profile" view showing the various layers. From the top down: 1/2" MDF; 1/16" CCF; 3/16" cork; 1/16" CCF; 1/2" MDF; 1/16" CCF; 3/16" cork:



If the bottom cork-and-CCF layer is too thick, I can use a single layer of CCF adhered to the metal door skin to save some space. As it is, I'm going to have to trim some plastic behind the door panel, but I want to trim it as little as possible in order to have it properly direct energy through the grills. 

I've also been mindful of the depth of the midbass drivers and how much they would protrude into the door cavity. I wanted to minimize that as much as possible, but in doing so, would make the baffles needlessly 'tall' and overly-restrictive around the basket. Midbasses need to breathe to work properly 

Feel free to ask me anything about the process or my thoughts on how and why I did things the way I did!


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

...any feedback?


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## SPLEclipse (Aug 17, 2012)

Seeing the complete product..that's damn awesome! Lining up all of those mounting holes is the stuff of my nightmares. I'm not good with little detail stuff, lol.


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Very nice! A lot of thought has gone in to them, by the looks.
I love the modular approach. I know how many times I've changed drivers without even STARTING to install them, let along swapping them out after they're been installed!:laugh:


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

sinister-kustoms said:


> Very nice! A lot of thought has gone in to them, by the looks.
> I love the modular approach. I know how many times I've changed drivers without even STARTING to install them, let along swapping them out after they're been installed!:laugh:


Modular is the word here! If you look at the earlier posts in the thread, you'll notice that the MDF ring for the midbasses changes appearance - the first version was for my 5.25" mids, while the latest version is for 6.5" drivers. Both versions use the same bolt-hole diameter for the machine screws that fasten the various layers together. There's a couple of different sets of gaskets, obviously, but most of the parts are interchangeable.

I could even do 8" drivers! 

The rings would have to step out in diameter sequentially, the fasteners would have to be flushed into each respective layer, and I'd have to be mindful of the overall "height" of the baffles so they would still fit behind the door panels... but I think it's doable


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

SPLEclipse said:


> Seeing the complete product..that's damn awesome! Lining up all of those mounting holes is the stuff of my nightmares. I'm not good with little detail stuff, lol.


Well, you know the old saying...

Measure eight times, cut once!


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

so, does it work? i think a compare\contrast with and without the cork and ccf would be a nice touch.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

req said:


> so, does it work? i think a compare\contrast with and without the cork and ccf would be a nice touch.


We shall see! Technically, I haven't screwed them together yet... or attached them to the doors... or ran wiring into the doors... or installed the drivers... or added the additional CLD I want to add...


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