# Mini horn favor



## thehatedguy

Can someone take a picture of a minihorn with it's dimensions listed?

Or just provide the dimensions so I can make a cardboard mock up of one?

If you want to list it like a triangle that would be great- base would be depth, height would be mouth side length, and hypotenuse would be the back side from the motor to far edge of mouth.

And would need width/height of mouth.

Thanks.


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## 2wheelie

CD1e or the old style?


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## thehatedguy

Either, both, any. 1e would be first choice.

I'm not hard to please.


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## 2wheelie

Hope this helps.


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## thehatedguy

DUDE!

That so rocks!


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## 2wheelie

So what are you working on?


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## thehatedguy

Center channel


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## benny

Im assuming the dimensions in the pic are centimeters, not millimeters, right?


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## 2wheelie

For your lonely bms


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## 2wheelie

Doh! yes, cm.

That would be a sub-micro horn then. lol


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## thehatedguy

Si senor

It's lonely now, but it might find a couple of friends to play with...if I can fit everything.

If not, it's coax time.


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## 2wheelie

I'm intrigued. Aren't these horns directional?

I wanted to buy your bms but it's too big for this horn btw.


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## minbari

2wheelie said:


> I'm intrigued. Aren't these horns directional?
> 
> I wanted to buy your bms but it's too big for this horn btw.


Exactly right, the mh have a steep angle of dispursion off axis. This would suck as a center Chanel.

You want a unity horn if you use a horn

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## thehatedguy

Can't be too big...it's smaller than the Ultra driver and DE500 (CD2) drivers that I've used on that horn.


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## thehatedguy

No, Eric and I have been talking off and on about doing a minihorn for a center channel for a couple of years now.

And why would I want a Unity horn? You can make the coverage angle as wide or as narrow as you want with a Unity horn.



minbari said:


> Exactly right, the mh have a steep angle of dispursion off axis. This would suck as a center Chanel.
> 
> You want a unity horn if you use a horn
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## minbari

Ok, Eric would know more than me 

Just seems that getting the crossfire angle of those things to work in the center would be tough

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## thehatedguy

You would be correct...if you kept the horn in the same orientation as you would have them under the dash. You would widen the l/r dispersion if you put a mh perpendicular to the windshield.

I just need to see if it's physically possible to fit one up there with a 2118 or a BMS 8.


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## minbari

thehatedguy said:


> You would be correct...if you kept the horn in the same orientation as you would have them under the dash. You would widen the l/r dispersion if you put a mh perpendicular to the windshield.
> 
> I just need to see if it's physically possible to fit one up there with a 2118 or a BMS 8.


Never thought about turning it on end. Very interesting

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## thehatedguy

Eric mentioned it, dunno how serious he was when he said it...now just have to see if it will physically fit, which I dunno if it will.


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## 2wheelie

For some reason I thought you had the 4550's.


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## thehatedguy

No, the one I have is the 4540...it's tiny and badassed.


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## 2wheelie

So you like this more than the de500? How about the 2500ti?


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## thehatedguy

Yes and yes...I do, but that's just me.

Not to say the others are bad, because they are great drivers.

I for whatever reason like non metallic domed compression drivers (haven't head Be domes).


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## 2wheelie

OK. Only ever heard one horn setup (de25 w/old MH) and like to hear peoples opinions on different diaphragm materials. So the 4540 has a more laid back sound, is that safe to say?


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## mitchyz250f

Seems like the drawing is not fully dimensioned, meaning that not all dimensions can be fully derived from the dimensions given.
- length of the opening 
- Details around what appears to be the 90 degree bend

Either angles or more dimensions are needed.


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## Eric Stevens

Actual opening is 2x10. 

Horn perpendicular top windshield with long section mounted towards the rear will work quite well.

Eric


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## thehatedguy

Now I have to see if I can fit this guy in there...I was thinking it was a bit more "mini" than it actually is...lol.


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## mitchyz250f

This thread got me thinking. I have been trying to fit a DE5 tweeter (3000Hz) horn in my sail panels and although the DE5 is tiny, it was impossible to do using typical symmetrical horns. Even 4" horns don't work because they have to be aimed. 

BUT a micro-miniaturized ‘full sized horn’ with a 4” opening would be perfectly shaped and fit. That is IF I don't have to have that large flat surface on the horn mouth. That would be a deal killer.

So I can I just miniaturize the full size horn? Would HornResp help me design the horn?

I hoped I explained this adequately.


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## subwoofery

mitchyz250f said:


> This thread got me thinking. I have been trying to fit a DE5 tweeter (3000Hz) horn in my sail panels and although the DE5 is tiny, it was impossible to do using typical symmetrical horns. Even 4" horns don't work because they have to be aimed.
> 
> BUT a micro-miniaturized ‘full sized horn’ with a 4” opening would be perfectly shaped and fit. That is IF I don't have to have that large flat surface on the horn mouth. That would be a deal killer.
> 
> So I can I just miniaturize the full size horn? Would HornResp help me design the horn?
> 
> I hoped I explained this adequately.


Here's a pic of Rick's (RaamAudio) full size ID horns: 









When talking with Eric Stevens a long time ago, he told me that cutting like in the pics doesn't remove much, if any, of the performance... 

Is that what you wanted to do? 

Kelvin


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## mitchyz250f

Subwoofer - Yes that was EXACTLY what my question was. Looks like things are going my way.  I see that some of the front was cut away also. How do you know what you need and what you don't?

Now, can I just miniaturise the 'full size' horn or are there other things that need to be accounted for? 

And which compression driver would be better for 3000Hz and up, the DE5 or DE7?

BTW, why is your picture so big and mine sucks. How did you do that?


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## thehatedguy

I'll make you a sweet deal on a single DE5 if that helps...


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## mitchyz250f

Did you decide to not use the DE5 in your unity horns?


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## thehatedguy

Probably no Unity horns...


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## subwoofery

mitchyz250f said:


> Subwoofer - Yes that was EXACTLY what my question was. Looks like things are going my way.  I see that some of the front was cut away also. How do you know what you need and what you don't?
> Just PM Eric
> 
> Now, can I just miniaturise the 'full size' horn or are there other things that need to be accounted for?
> If you can implement a nice termination on the front (top and bottom), that would be sound better... Especially since you're planning on installing @ eye level.
> Homster thread in DIYaudio
> 
> And which compression driver would be better for 3000Hz and up, the DE5 or DE7?
> Not sure about that one... Ask Jason if he's using the DE5 down to 3kHz
> 
> BTW, why is your picture so big and mine sucks. How did you do that?
> I use imageshack.com to upload my pics and then copy the image's link on DIYMA.


Kelvin


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## thehatedguy

At 3 or 4k the horn will be really really small. It's only going to have to be about 1.5-2" deep to get loading at those frequencies.

I would probably do a conical horn since it will be so small...would be the easiest to design and build.

There is a tractrix horn design spreadsheet floating around that you could use if you wanted a tractrix.


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## mitchyz250f

Jason - The problem is the drivers side becasue of the shape of the dash. Any straight horn will just stick out way to far or block my view of the side mirror. Also, isn't the despersion with the car style horns made such that the driver and passenger hear the close horn and the further horn at the same volume which makes setting a two seat car much easier? And the vertical despersion very limited?

One more question, there is always talk about matching power response of the drivers, but with horns you are purposely not matching the power response of the mid. Why isn't that a problem? Or do you just deal with it because the pros out way the cons? Eliminating almost all of the reflections and the dynamics seems very compelling.

This is my first serious look at horns and I really don't know anything.


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## thehatedguy

Um, that might be better asked to Eric...lol.


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## Patrick Bateman

mitchyz250f said:


> This thread got me thinking. I have been trying to fit a DE5 tweeter (3000Hz) horn in my sail panels and although the DE5 is tiny, it was impossible to do using typical symmetrical horns. Even 4" horns don't work because they have to be aimed.
> 
> BUT a micro-miniaturized ‘full sized horn’ with a 4” opening would be perfectly shaped and fit. That is IF I don't have to have that large flat surface on the horn mouth. That would be a deal killer.
> 
> So I can I just miniaturize the full size horn? Would HornResp help me design the horn?
> 
> I hoped I explained this adequately.


It doesn't take much to load a tweeter down to 3khz. A waveguide 4.5" in diameter is plenty big enough.










MCM 54-800 is 4.5" x 4.5" and costs $5.49


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## Victor_inox

2wheelie said:


> Hope this helps.


seriously, that small?


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## thehatedguy

Post number 10 corrects that...should be cm, not mm.


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## Victor_inox

Gotcha. metric system a bit complicated for some.


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## T3mpest

mitchyz250f said:


> Jason - The problem is the drivers side becasue of the shape of the dash. Any straight horn will just stick out way to far or block my view of the side mirror. Also, isn't the despersion with the car style horns made such that the driver and passenger hear the close horn and the further horn at the same volume which makes setting a two seat car much easier? And the vertical despersion very limited?
> 
> One more question, there is always talk about matching power response of the drivers, but with horns you are purposely not matching the power response of the mid. Why isn't that a problem? Or do you just deal with it because the pros out way the cons? Eliminating almost all of the reflections and the dynamics seems very compelling.
> 
> This is my first serious look at horns and I really don't know anything.


Horizontal dispersion is limited with the ID horns because they put most of their output to the center of the car and less to the sides, it does make for a strong center and decently even response from both seats. However, vertical dispersion is quite wide, that's why even under the dash they image on the dash when used properly. The shoot the sound upwards.


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