# Bare wire connections to amp. A better way?



## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi,

I have been connecting my cables to my amp using the recommended "bare wire" method by the instructions. I've noticed that over time the cable gets a bit loose for my comfort and tiny stray little threads hang out forcing me to trim them. The problem is that it keeps happening and I'm a bit tired of it.

So, I would like to use a connector on the ends of my wires for power and speakers.










I though of using spade type connectors, but those are holes. Is there a crimp style one for "round" shape inserts that are found on car amps? I just want this install to be as clean and neat as possible.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Use a piece of human hair and some solder. that should do it.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Tie down your cables so they don't move and start to break off.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

In all seriousness though it sounds like your wire isn't pure copper and is expanding when it heats up then contracting when it cools down causing the loose connection over time. My wire is pure copper and my connections never get loose.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Use a piece of human hair and some solder. that should do it.


What kind of solder?


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

http://www.stingerelectronics.com/productDetails.aspx?delineate=72&CategoryID=43&ParentID=18

you can use those if you want to but the bare connection is better, if you screw it down tight it shouldnt come out ever


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> What kind of solder?


plastic


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> In all seriousness though it sounds like your wire isn't pure copper and is expanding when it heats up then contracting when it cools down causing the loose connection over time. My wire is pure copper and my connections never get loose.


If this is the case with your wire, then what I linked to will only put you back in the same position but with further expense


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

here is the part where the op tells us how the problem can't be his top-of-the-line (infinity) cables.

you could just tin the ends of the wire, use some heat shrink over the spot where you stripped the wire.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I sometimes tin the VERY TOP of the wire with solder, I also had an issue with the screws backing out on one amp and a little loctite intended for removal did wonders for me (I believe it was blue, the loctite)

Chad


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

I dip the ends of my wire in Kopr-Shield shove them in, and never have to worry about them again.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

BeatsDownLow said:


> http://www.stingerelectronics.com/productDetails.aspx?delineate=72&CategoryID=43&ParentID=18
> 
> you can use those if you want to but the bare connection is better, if you screw it down tight it shouldnt come out ever


Those things sock @$$. Not only is the contact area limited to how well the outer diameter of that adapter matches the inner diameter of the hole but you are just moving the screw terminal to another point.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

chad said:


> I sometimes tin the VERY TOP of the wire with solder, I also had an issue with the screws backing out on one amp and a little loctite intended for removal did wonders for me (I believe it was blue, the loctite)
> 
> Chad


DO NOT use red or green loctite on a screw that you think you will have to remove in the future. I know from experience that heat will break a red loctite connection... As for undoing green, it is easier to drill and re-tap the threads.


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

Tin the end and heat shrink up to the point where the wire goes into the connection. Heat shrink it BEFORE putting the wire in the amplifier.

This prevents stray ends.

Also, securing your wire prevents this...it's not just some stupid competition requirement....as evidenced here.


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## zGhost (Oct 28, 2008)

Ya i agree tin the wires and as chad says use a lil removal locktight. If your dead set on using connectors the speaker connectors are easy pins i post a pic of some. Power and ground are a bit harder to locate a lot out there but not many insulated so the connectors are often very close to touching which make me nervous when i look at them


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

Secure your wires and forget about using pin style connectors, especially if you don't secure your wires, as they will work loose much more quickly.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Use 12/2 Romex { solid wire }


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Just to like I do and solder directly to everything... lol..


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

RedGTiVR6 said:


> Tin the end and heat shrink up to the point where the wire goes into the connection. Heat shrink it BEFORE putting the wire in the amplifier.
> 
> This prevents stray ends.
> 
> Also, securing your wire prevents this...it's not just some stupid competition requirement....as evidenced here.


Are you tinning the VERY end or the whole stripped section? I prefer the very end to just group the wires and to give something solid to prevent the wire from slipping out if it gets stupid loose. I don't agree to tinning the whole stripped section because it does not crush as well and in my experience leaves the set screw with a better chance of backing out or the connection coming lose over time. A non tinned wire also has a greater surface area of contact over the sleeve inside the terminal.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

That was a joke BTW..


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

I am totally suprised to see that there are 19 replies in this thread and every 3rd one isnt the OP


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

BeatsDownLow said:


> I am totally suprised to see that there are 19 replies in this thread and every 3rd one isnt the OP


That's because I'm looking over the replies and think each one tends to have it's own merits. In this particular thread, there is more than one way to skin a cat, so there is no totally wrong way to do it. I will get the chance to look over each one and decide which suggestion works for me. So far, there are some decent ones. Still, a good crimp-style connector that is round and fits in the hole would be ideal. The soldering idea could be a winner though.


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

i like the idea of soldering directly... think of how much SQ you'll gain from that...


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Autiophile said:


> The crimp connector is not ideal even though it may seem nice because it's a round peg in a round hole. Really you are just increasing the number of physical connections from 1 to 2.
> 
> Tin the very end of the wire, stick it in the hole, crank down on the set screw to mash the bare copper portion. Your issue with loose strands may be from breaking the individual strands while stripping the wire. Next time you strip a stranded wire, check the strands at the base of the stripped portion and remove any that were inadvertently cut.
> 
> ...


I'll pass on those. They might not be conductive (if that matters, who knows) and they'll rip the cable up pretty bad. I also would not rely on soft copper to act as my lock washer.


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

1. the set screws don't have to be conductive, it is used to apply pressure to the wire and hold it against the copper terminal.

2. his point was that the knurled ends avoid backouts - not to get the exact ones pictured

3. if you are ripping up the wire, its a good sign that you made the connection tight enough [maybe too tight] - or maybe that you bought bad wire


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

falkenbd said:


> 1. the set screws don't have to be conductive, it is used to apply pressure to the wire and hold it against the copper terminal.
> 
> 2. his point was that the knurled ends avoid backouts - not to get the exact ones pictured
> 
> 3. if you are ripping up the wire, its a good sign that you made the connection tight enough [maybe too tight] - or maybe that you bought bad wire


1. In some cases it can be helpful if it's conductive, for instance if the cable does not fill up the well (8 gauge cable in a 4 gauge set screw hole), the screw acts as another contact point . 

2. I know that was his point, thats why I said I would not rely on the soft copper to hold the knurled part and keep it from backing out.

3. Or if you did everything right and bought a knurled tip that rips it up much easier. Like you said, the screw is meant to apply pressure, best way to do that is to have a flat surface on the cable.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Soft copper will keep it from backing out much better than a harder substance given the harder substance is allowed to move just a bit.


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

High quality cables with very fine strands are more difficult to get secured.

I use "plain" black/red speaker cables of proper section. They are very easy to secure and they thicker/stiffer strands do not came loose.

The worst are big car audio power cables. In these, I usually use a bit of solder to stiffen their tip. Heat shrink and cable ties helps a lot.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Autiophile said:


> I really don't think this application requires much of a lock washer to begin with. The ones I've used just happened to be conductive (the black oxide ones were just the first pic a google image search turned up) and didn't damage the wires to any noticeable extent. These aren't barbs, they are little nubs. Even if they do twist up the strands a little bit, who cares? As long as the connection is secure you're good. I have never had any back out on me.


Tighten a set screw properly and you do more then twist the strands.

Imagine this. You are removing your amps for whatever reason. You pull out the cable and while you are pulling out the amp those little copper strand come out of the set screw hole and slide into your amps through a near by fin. 

Why contribute to that, knurls on copper is not going to keep that screw from backing out. If you had success with them I bet it's the actual thread material having more friction because they are a harder material or they are not shinny plated types.


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## ClassicCoupe (Aug 7, 2008)

I came across these on the Parts Express website.










It's made by a German company, WBT, and is crimped on the bare wire strands.

I have not tried these yet, but I have a few on order and will try them out in the next month or so.

Here is a link to the WBT website with more details:
http://www.wbt.de/index.php?id=93


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

i'd have to say, I prefer my amp that doesn't have set screws.

On an amp with set screws I use whatever set screws the manufacturer provided. I made it sound like it was a bigger deal that I really think it is. To me its not as much about the screws as it is about the wire termination.

I actually like tinning the entire end of the stripped wire, then coming over part of the exposed wire with heat shrink, leaving just enough wire exposed so the heat shrink won't come near the set screw. I take the set screw out and put the wire into the hole and slide the heat shrink up until I see it, then back it out slightly. Then hold the heat shrink in place, remove the wire and shrink it in place.

I only use enough solder to barely tin the wire, this way it'll still smash down with the set screw.

Tinning the wires also helps to avoid those little strands from falling out. And you can remove and reinstall the wire with no issues.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

chad said:


> Soft copper will keep it from backing out much better than a harder substance given the harder substance is allowed to move just a bit.


I dunno, copper is as soft as human hair.


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## circa40 (Jan 20, 2008)

I personally feel that the bare connections are the best since there are less connections in the signal/power flow as Autiophile suggested. Ultimately it will reduce resistance due to less connections. 

I've yet to see a set screw back out when used with the proper wire size. Vibration from too much bass maybe?  

The others are right about "tinning" the tip of the wire, that process should reduce the likelihood of fray strands.

When inserting a larger wire such as the power/ground cables (even speaker wires), remove the set-screw completely - insert wire - tighten. This way you'll be sure that the wire strands does not get caught up by the bottom of the set-screw. 
Also, this will allow you to see the copper strands before tightening the set-screw. I've seen a lot of people clamp down on the wire jacket and not the copper.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

ClassicCoupe said:


> I came across these on the Parts Express website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. This looks promising.  I could cut the length down and get a good fit with it. Assuming of course that it will accomodate 4awg power/gnd lines.

Edit: Looks like Madisound has them.  I'm going to order a test pair of 6 awg. 
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=154&sort=3a&page=2

But their shipping is $9, so that sucks.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

tspence73 said:


> Wow. This looks promising.  I could cut the length down and get a good fit with it. Assuming of course that it will accomodate 4awg power/gnd lines.
> 
> Edit: Looks like Madisound has them.  I'm going to order a test pair of 6 awg.
> http://www.madisound.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=154&sort=3a&page=2
> ...


How does it look after you attach the wire to it?










Still look like a good option?


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

t3sn4f2 said:


> How does it look after you attach the wire to it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, it looks good to me. If I can cut the length with a saw, it would work, and dupe that on the power wires. It's just a bit pricey for a few crimps for the power and speaker lines. $19


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

That's high end stuff! I see all the advantages!


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

OH! and you're gonna need one of these lovelies to crimp them correctly.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=154&products_id=1220

_Only_ 90 buckaroos! I don't know how they can keep those in stock, they should be flying off the shelves. 

(By the way I'm not mocking the person who suggested the sleeves, just the product.)


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

chad said:


> That's high end stuff! I see all the advantages!


I updated my cross sectional drawing for these. 









Now that Chad, _IS AWESOME_


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Autiophile said:


> Dammit I hate WBT.
> 
> Tons of good advice in this thread and the round peg for the round hole idea still floats to the surface at the end.
> 
> Tspence, you've been given excellent advice for methods that are superior and cost nothing. Save your money and take the advice given. Get out the soldering iron and just tin the very tips of the wires. You don't need to buy anything. Especially not from wbt, a company that profits from the idiocy of "audiophiles" buying RCA connectors at $60 a piece.


But, the connections will look and function just like I imagined. The price isn't that bad, it's just the shipping Madisound is charging that is ruining this idea. I don't want to pay $20 for 4 crimps. That's just insanity. But, it will look hella pro and streamlined.


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

how will people know how it looks when it's shoved into the amplifier?

Just do what was suggested to you:

Wiring

There's a step by step on how we did it.


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## Mack (Jul 27, 2007)

falkenbd said:


> here is the part where the op tells us how the problem can't be his top-of-the-line (infinity) cables.
> 
> you could just tin the ends of the wire, use some heat shrink over the spot where you stripped the wire.


Sounds like the best method to me.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

tspence73 said:


> But, the connections will look and function just like I imagined. The price isn't that bad, it's just the shipping Madisound is charging that is ruining this idea. I don't want to pay $20 for 4 crimps. That's just insanity. But, it will look hella pro and streamlined.


Amazing


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Wow...all this hassle over simple connections. Insert wire, tighten screw, secure wiring harness near amp. Served me well for over 20 years.


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

tspence73 said:


> But, the connections will look and function just like I imagined. The price isn't that bad, it's just the shipping Madisound is charging that is ruining this idea. I don't want to pay $20 for 4 crimps. That's just insanity. But, it will look hella pro and streamlined.


I'm not going to preface the following comment by saying "no offence but..."

*What you imagined is stupid.* 



Autiophile said:


> That's not a good thing in this case. After crimping, you will be inserting a relatively rigid connector into the amp terminal. This will make it less secure because there will be less deformation caused by the set screw.
> 
> Tell me one reason why the tinned wire method will not work.
> 
> ...


^^^^ This man, and several others in this thread speak the truth.

spence, I don't believe I've ever said anything negative against you on these forums, even when you've pulled some bonehead ideas out, but this is freakin dumb.

Your gonna drop $20 or whatever on some crap that is "hella pro" looking, but in all actuality is ****.
You've been given the proper method, and a couple reasonable alternatives, and you've also been specifically told why you don't want to use a product like this, so you're gonna go ahead and use it.

Why don't you just delete your account if you aren't going to even consider the advice you get when you post here?!?!
Every one of your threads has followed a similar form: you ask a question, get razzed for a couple posts, get some great answers from people much more experienced than yourself, then you give the other posters a subtle "**** you" and go ahead with your own idea, which is usually counter to what you've been told.


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## shadowfactory (Oct 20, 2008)

tspence73 said:


> But, the connections will look and function just like I imagined. The price isn't that bad, it's just the shipping Madisound is charging that is ruining this idea. I don't want to pay $20 for 4 crimps. That's just insanity. But, it will look hella pro and streamlined.


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

LAWLS 

In 5-10 years, that kid is gonna be REAL glad he was wearing a mask when that was taken.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

shadowfactory said:


>


Cool! I always wanted my own profile pic. Thanks! I bet this kid could kick your ass. That's how weak I think you are. haha. I will proudly don this superhero's picture as my own! tspence!


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## shadowfactory (Oct 20, 2008)

tspence73 said:


> I will proudly don this superhero's picture as my own!


You have just made my wildest dreams come true.


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## shadowfactory (Oct 20, 2008)

tspence73 said:


> I bet this kid could kick your ass.


Dude he has down's he could kick a bear's ass.


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