# Babs' 08 Honda Civic Si Sedan



## Babs

I've been reluctant over the years to do a log here for a couple reasons. One I didn't think the skills were up to anything special for showing off anything that's not been seen, and two install learning curve on many levels has made my install work extremely slooooooowwww. Like molasses slow. And lastly I feared I'd make a confabulated crazy thread full of misinformation and audio heresy while showing just how newb I am at real installation and tuning. Hehe  ah WTH! Here goes.. The old girl has something like 90k miles on the odo and she still boogies but has some squeaks here and there and some typical things I want to do from a maintenance and looks perspective. The paint will have to be redone. The 8th Civic paint curse has bitten me. 










The car has already had iteration 2 or 3 maybe with still a two way system comprising of SB Acoustics drivers badged NVX and I've gone through various subs along the way with an SD-3 10" in an Audio Integrations box, then pulled it for a temporary 12TW1 in a first home-built sealed box for me. 

Powered by 80PRS, PDX V9 and F4

Changes planned and in the works:

IB baby!! 

Two IB12AU drivers on shelf now and building template now a bit unorthodox. Balsa wood. LOL! I have to make everything difficult. But ok. Here's as of tonight. Template done, time to cut some wood. 










3-Way:

The poor guys at the NCSQ meet have heard me whine for the last time about a 3-way. Scan-speak D3004's and 10F mids will be replacing my first fabrication project in the pillars with a bit more extensive first-time pillar job for me. 

Existing:









That little window will be getting mids and tweets glassed in a sealed enclosure pillar job for the 10F. Goal being as stealthy or inconspicuous as possible. 

Gear list plan after this iteration:

80PRS main source
IDevice into HDMI converted to toslink for second source
Helix DSP (8 ch) with two-knob remote
PDX V9 for sub, mids, tweets
PDX F4 for midbass. 
D3004 around 3100 hz up maybe
10F from 400 to 3100 hz
NVX (SB17) XSP65 midbass from 80 to 400 hz. Maybe a surprise or two there though on driver and installation



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## rob feature

in

:snacks:


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## Elgrosso

Sub'! Why balsa, for rigidity/weigth?


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## Babs

Elgrosso said:


> Sub'! Why balsa, for rigidity/weigth?



Thought was I hoped to play with my flush trim bit doing the actual baffle baffle boards. . Silly I know. Hindsight a good piece of cardboard and cutout with a jigsaw would have gotten it done just fine.


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## FunkPnut

Ex-8th gen Civic owner checking in.

Too bad you can't use those tweeter pods again, they look great.

Looking forward to the build!


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## Babs

FunkPnut said:


> Ex-8th gen Civic owner checking in.
> 
> Too bad you can't use those tweeter pods again, they look great.
> 
> Looking forward to the build!




Thanks. Yeah I was quite proud of those for a first-timer doing anything like that. Hope to have lightning strike twice with the pillar mid/tweet job.


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## craiggus365

Funny how things work...I have been cutting 5mm ply for my 07 EX sedan IB install since 1PM. I just started getting towards sundown and chilly here, I packed it in for the night and saw your idea of a template.
I was hoping to do 1 18" or 2 15" for mine though. I'm letting the baffle guide me but I pretty sure either can work.


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## Babs

Yeah I wish I had some ply on hand so being blasphemous and using what I got.. 3/4" MDF it is. Best? No. But I got sheets of the stuff. Finally getting to work on it a little. Here goes nothing. Roughed in with a jigsaw. 










Now fun with power tools..










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## Babs

Big shout out to Mark at Car Audio Fabrication for the instructional vids that have given me the courage to attempt this craziness. 

And big shout out to ErinH who blazed the trail with 8th Civic speaker install stuff he's done over the years, that has inspired the wild stuff I'm about to do to some spare pillars on the shelf. And the patience he's had in teaching me tuning from what he learned the hard way. You rock Dude!


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## KrautNotRice

Along for the ride!
Those NVX tweeters are on my shopping list after I get a 80prs. If I may ask why are you moving away from them? Just because 3way?


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## Babs

KrautNotRice said:


> Along for the ride!
> Those NVX tweeters are on my shopping list after I get a 80prs. If I may ask why are you moving away from them? Just because 3way?



Pretty much because of 3way. It was hard decision actually. I love these tweeters. It wasn't the tweeters that prompted it but the realization the door mids simply couldn't deliver the freq response in door, off axis, without gutting them with EQ. Seeing the amount of midbass lost in that process they definitely need to hand over the torch from about 350-400hz and up, rather than trying to play up to 2khz. They could do it but the amount of EQ cuts proved to me 3-way would really let them shine more. But the tweeters could play very low, below 2khz even, output depending. 2097 hz is where I had them last and very pulled back because the door mids couldn't keep up in upper midrange.


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## bertholomey

I'm so looking forward to following this build and seeing / hearing the results


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## Elgrosso

FunkPnut said:


> Ex-8th gen Civic owner checking in.
> 
> Too bad you can't use those tweeter pods again, they look great.
> 
> Looking forward to the build!


Yes they are really nice.
Maybe could you re-use somewhere behind for rearfill?


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## Babs

Elgrosso said:


> Yes they are really nice.
> 
> Maybe could you re-use somewhere behind for rearfill?



Nope. They're molded on the plate in the pillar window. I guess I'll try to find an 8th civic guy who wants to do killer tweets pretty much instantly by popping out a plate and popping these in.


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## Babs

bertholomey said:


> I'm so looking forward to following this build and seeing / hearing the results



I'm excited to finally be taking the plunge. Fall meet is the goal my friend. Ambitious I think. The pro's could probably knock it out in due order but I'm certainly no pro. Garage DIY'er amateur rookie novice at best. Hehehe.

First test fit was as I suspected.. Baffle wall needs trimming. Fine. You can take wood off but can't put it back. Don't have a board stretcher around. LOL!


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## Babs

And bam!!









Let's make some big holes!


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## Babs

So newb mistake I'll never make again... Never underestimate the routers ability to jump on you.. Hold onto that sucker. I think it's salvageable but sure hurt my dang ego. So, trudging onward. That's how I left it last night. Shut down the shop and got a 12-pack or Sierra Navada's. Mad, was an understatement. I'll fill in my boo boo with putty and lick my ego wounds but thank God it didn't get any worse than damaged wood.

I was more mad I let it happen than anything to do with the damage to the piece. And that 1/4" spiral bit bastard was fully distended and ready to whoop somebody's ass. I'm glad it didn't take a turn at me. That crap shall NEVER happen again. Let the grip get limp while running, while probably cut through, while dickin' around with the stupid power cord. The plethora of things I did wrong were a perfect storm. In any case, trudging forward, and thinking how much fun attaching, and sealing is going to be.. Shoooooo!


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## craiggus365

The sealing is gonna be the toughest part, I got mine in and is sounds like crap. Prob my choice of woofer, amp, and sealing. I'll post pics in a moment to compare.


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## craiggus365

Here is my work yesterday. Pool noodle sealing around the baffle only. More on the front and the top only along the top trunk brace.


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## Mic10is

Babs said:


> So newb mistake I'll never make again... Never underestimate the routers ability to jump on you.. Hold onto that sucker. I think it's salvageable but sure hurt my dang ego. So, trudging onward. That's how I left it last night. Shut down the shop and got a 12-pack or Sierra Navada's. Mad, was an understatement. I'll fill in my boo boo with putty and lick my ego wounds but thank God it didn't get any worse than damaged wood.
> 
> I was more mad I let it happen than anything to do with the damage to the piece. And that 1/4" spiral bit bastard was fully distended and ready to whoop somebody's ass. I'm glad it didn't take a turn at me. That crap shall NEVER happen again. Let the grip get limp while running, while probably cut through, while dickin' around with the stupid power cord. The plethora of things I did wrong were a perfect storm. In any case, trudging forward, and thinking how much fun attaching, and sealing is going to be.. Shoooooo!


Im glad you are Ok. routers are no joke. I have a friend, Jeremy Carlson who is arguably one of the BEST fabricators and installers in the world lose part of his finger in a router accident. It happens really quickly and BAM, its done


sealing baffle is easy. get some armaflex foam or any foam to make a gasket. to sandwhich between the baffle and the rear deck/back seat support. 
Then you have numerous ways to secure the baffle.
then simply expanding foam around the edges. let the foam cure. then shave down the excess so its flush
then install your beauty panel
you may want to consider doing L brackets on top and bottom of the baffle for extra rigidity


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## High Resolution Audio

I'm glad you decided to post a log on here. You don't really have to apologize for the paint on your car or your newness to fabrication. So far you have been doing a great job. The template idea was better than cardboard IMHO, and the final piece came out great. 

I'm glad that you knew when to quit and call it a night. Mercury is in Retrograde till May 22 so things may not go smoothly until after then. I'm so glad that you didn't get hurt. As far as the baffle, "A little putty and paint make it what it ain't."

It's nice that you decided to share the entire build mistakes and all. It adds to the character of your build and helps paint a better picture of the entire process. Keep up the good work and don't worry about getting it done by a deadline. Worrying about getting it done, takes the fun out of the process and makes the build less enjoyable. Sometimes, rushing also makes us cut corners and later on you will regret not taking the time to do it the way you had originally intended. 

Keep up the good work and looking forward to your seeing your progress.


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## hot9dog

Watching this one....I love home brewed builds .


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## Babs

Thanks guys. Means a lot. Big time!

Yeah that one I figured to share for this very reason. It might just save someone's fingers or hand by remembering this could be your fingers if a spiral 1/4" bit spinning at 16k decides to get frisky in a bad way if it gets away from you for even a split second. 











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## frontman

I hear you...I "drilled" my finger once with a paddle bit while punching through a header in the ceiling. I would have passed out and fallen off the ladder if another guy didn't tell me, " You don't look so good - you better get off that ladder!" ?


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## optimaprime

Sweeeeeettttt glad you posting a log !


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## Elgrosso

Babs said:


> Thanks guys. Means a lot. Big time!
> 
> Yeah that one I figured to share for this very reason. It might just save someone's fingers or hand by remembering this could be your fingers if a spiral 1/4" bit spinning at 16k decides to get frisky in a bad way if it gets away from you for even a split second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


:worried:
That's why I started with a mini router, knowing me, easily distracted 
Glad you're not hurt


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## Babs

Elgrosso said:


> :worried:
> That's why I started with a mini router, knowing me, easily distracted
> Glad you're not hurt


Certainly.. Once this PC 892 I picked up gets installed into the table base, down the road I can certainly see going with a 400 series mini.


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## rob feature

Glad I read this stuff about routers. I had no idea they could get on ya like that. 

I was turning a T-35 T-handle on a motorcycle years ago and the shaft snapped and buried a shard of metal in my eyeglasses.  Never saw that one coming. That's when I stopped buying things from Harbor Freight.


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## hot9dog

I think the biggest over looked topic on the forum is safety. Safety glasses, hearing protection, ventilators, etc... also hand and body placement while using power tools. These things are easy to overlook until it's too late.


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## lucas569

lazy sub. amassing gear for my civic build as we speak


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## Babs

hot9dog said:


> I think the biggest over looked topic on the forum is safety. Safety glasses, hearing protection, ventilators, etc... also hand and body placement while using power tools. These things are easy to overlook until it's too late.



And I think I'm going outside for the further work if I can drag the workbench out. The MDF dust will flat kill you without a dust collection setup.


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## craiggus365

I am dying to see your ideas on sealing the seat release mechanisms w/o locking them up. I ~think~ they are killing my output, like massively, but the 18" I used was a SI HT 18. 
The SI may not have been the best option but I had one I could spare. On an impulse purchase I got both a Pyle Blue Wave 18 and a Lanzar open air 18. I will seal my releases up more this weekend, swap to an amp with ssf, and compare the 3 subs by next weekend.
My ultimate goal is closer to SPL vs SQ [SQL lol], but chitty SPL is just that....chitty.


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## craiggus365

Babs said:


> And I think I'm going outside for the further work if I can drag the workbench out. The MDF dust will flat kill you without a dust collection setup.


You should see my basement, MDF dust creates a crust and is nasty when it gets damp.


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## Babs

So in mean time I'll show a wire job I did a while back since I had committed to a big three. Got it cleaned up with a little custom "use whatcha got" for the battery hold down. This was some months ago. Love having scrap stuff around and rivnuts. 
































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## Babs

Funny I think in haste I ordered a standard 1/4" bit instead of an upcut. I think that contributed to the router boo boo. It should pull dust spiraling up I'd imagine. Looking at the bit I think it's shoving dust into the cut groove. Bad recipe. Gonna pick up a proper up-spiraling bit now. 

Also plan is since I don't like the necessary gaps on the sides, doing a 2-piece 1/2 or 1/4" layer even in front. The struts are narrower than the plane where I intend to mount the baffle, I'm forced to be narrower left to right leaving roughly 1" gaps on each side, otherwise the single baffle won't go in. 

If I do a front 2-pc (let's call it a beauty panel) split down the middle, I can install it easy and completely flush on each side for better/easier sealing. 

So it'll be 1/4", 3/4" with sub attached, and 3/4" for second strength layer. Chamfer or round over the front 1/4" around the drivers nice. I think it'll work great. Learning curve continues.


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## craiggus365

Babs said:


> The struts are narrower than the plane where I intend to mount the baffle, I'm forced to be narrower left to right leaving roughly 1" gaps on each side, otherwise the single baffle won't go in.


Yeah, I found that quite annoying also!



Babs said:


> If I do a front 2-pc (let's call it a beauty panel) split down the middle, I can install it easy and completely flush on each side for better/easier sealing.
> 
> So it'll be 1/4", 3/4" with sub attached, and 3/4" for second strength layer. Chamfer or round over the front 1/4" around the drivers nice. I think it'll work great. Learning curve continues.


I think the seat mechanisms will still give us grief, they vent (quite large might I add, into the trunk. I was going to try sticky foam or caulk saver rope around the latch on the passenger compartment side.)


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## Babs

craiggus365 said:


> Yeah, I found that quite annoying also!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the seat mechanisms will still give us grief, they vent (quite large might I add, into the trunk. I was going to try sticky foam or caulk saver rope around the latch on the passenger compartment side.)




To tell ya the truth I've not been up under there enough to really assess it without deck panel etc. I'm considering something kinda unorthodox there.. Dealing with CLD of course as much as possible with maybe board or something over the large holes, but also doing as close to 100% coverage with MLV from underneath the deck as opposed to above the deck metal. It might possibly work better. Will know more once I can park it and do full tear down.


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## Babs

So in meantime since I can't cut anything or break something until this evening, you guys keep an "idea" folder for stolen pics of great fabrication or build stuff from anywhere/everywhere that inspires you or you wanna hang onto?

What the heck.. Here's mine. 
Idea Pics

Jason's killer BRZ doors get a special folder of greatness. < I'm totally doing this in my Civic.. That's part of this "big-3" iteration (IB, 3way, door-redo). But a metric ton of pics I've grabbed here, there, everywhere to keep for idea fodder. Erin's car represented as well. Casey's Si, may she rest in peace as well. And I tell ya, I find myself hitting the overseas shops a good bit from what I'm seeing for fabrication stuff, especially pillars. Some of those installer guys over there are off the chain good.


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## Black Rain

Awesome start on the build so far. I like that you cleaned up the wiring and how you mounted the fuse/plate to the battery. 

I think you will like the added midrange vocals on the dash/pillar from the 3way setup. I am curious to see you process for finishing up this IB wall for your 12s.

Best of luck. I'm tuned in.


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## Mic10is

Babs said:


> So in meantime since I can't cut anything or break something until this evening, you guys keep an "idea" folder for stolen pics of great fabrication or build stuff from anywhere/everywhere that inspires you or you wanna hang onto?
> 
> What the heck.. Here's mine.
> Idea Pics
> 
> Jason's killer BRZ doors get a special folder of greatness. < I'm totally doing this in my Civic.. That's part of this "big-3" iteration (IB, 3way, door-redo). But a metric ton of pics I've grabbed here, there, everywhere to keep for idea fodder. Erin's car represented as well. Casey's Si, may she rest in peace as well. And I tell ya, I find myself hitting the overseas shops a good bit from what I'm seeing for fabrication stuff, especially pillars. Some of those installer guys over there are off the chain good.


in about another month I'll finally have some free time to help, but glad to see you're getting a start---youre farther along on your car than I am on mine


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## win1

Sub'd for the infinite baffle getting new ideals.


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## Babs

Mic10is said:


> in about another month I'll finally have some free time to help, but glad to see you're getting a start


Oh I haven't forgotten ya.. Once I get to 'that' point where it's time to mix resin, with a decision and vision of the finished product, flushed rings, listening test for position, etc etc etc all that jazz, then you'll be getting a bing on your phone asking "how's your Sunday looking, I got glassin goods all packed up".  I guess the first one is the hardest.



Mic10is said:


> ---youre farther along on your car than I am on mine


That cannot be physically possible. That defies all known universal laws.


New Sig pic.. Optimistic as as hell ain't I!


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## Babs

craiggus365 said:


> I think the seat mechanisms will still give us grief, they vent (quite large might I add, into the trunk. I was going to try sticky foam or caulk saver rope around the latch on the passenger compartment side.)



Sent you a PM on that. Solution.


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## ErinH

How did I miss this thread?! 

Glad to see it getting off the ground. I'm gonna be hounding you about this now. lol. 



Also, regarding the seat latch, in my car I used spray foam all around it. I can't say it is 100% sealed but it was certainly sealed up enough to not cause any issues.


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## oabeieo

Subbed ! 

Yeah dood I wanna see what you do to your "handa" 
I like that sub btw.


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## JayinMI

ErinH said:


> How did I miss this thread?!
> 
> Glad to see it getting off the ground. I'm gonna be hounding you about this now. lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, regarding the seat latch, in my car I used spray foam all around it. I can't say it is 100% sealed but it was certainly sealed up enough to not cause any issues.


On a car I did (can't remember which one, it was a long time ago.) I made ABS boxes that fit around the seatbelt retractors and then dynamatted over everything. It worked pretty well. Probably not necessary, tho...you can't argue with Erin's old setup. lol

Jay


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## probillygun

go Scott! Looking forward to hearing it at the fall NCSQ meet!


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## Huckleberry Sound

mmmm mmmm!


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## captainobvious

Doing a nice job so far Scott. Safety first and take your time.


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## Babs

Got zero actual car work done this weekend but needed to "sharpen the saw" a bit. Garage area reorganization and clean up so I could put the car in a place around a $&@#! pole that's in a really inconvenient place. So now I can roll a workbench out for making dust while the car is torn down. 

Before:
















After:









A little thing but had a crazy weekend of tree trimming and helping neighbors. Disk between L4/L5 vertebrae is barking at me for sure. 

Panel poppers ready. The great teardown now to get this thing going. 


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## naiku

probillygun said:


> Looking forward to hearing it at the fall NCSQ meet!


Same thing I was thinking!! 



Babs said:


> Disk between L4/L5 vertebrae is barking at me for sure.


I hate back pain, hope it clears up quickly for you.


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## optimaprime

Love your table on wheels. I am at point where I a, redoing my garage and trying to put everyone wheels


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## Babs

So minor update. Found the coolest local warehouse today with all kinds of goodies. The guy that helped me builds home speakers, small world. They had every kind of wood stuff from wood flooring to big artistic cuts of cypress. Awesome place. So I picked up two 5x5 sheets of this..










Russian birch ply. A sheet of 7/8" and 5/8". Pretty solid stuff. 

Makes me think for two IB12AU's I might be ok with just a single layer of 7/8". I bought the 5/8" layer for strength if needed. Plan is some aluminum angle on the bottom at least and top if necessary for rigidity and for fastening. 

Your thoughts?



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## Babs

So a small update. It's going slow especially when you have a PITA dog under your feet who wants to play ball all day.
















But I love him though.. Big goofy sweet boy.

So I did up a "sealing" baffle in 1/4" to take up the space which goes in in two equal pieces. Job being to close in all the gaps. Love a flush trim bit. 

















Plan is that front baffle will get a nice chamfer or roundover edge outlining the subs on the board behind them. 

Next trick will be using my old MDF baffle cut down as large as possible but small enough to get by the rear struts and actually fit in one piece well behind the front piece. That'll be used for a template for the actual 7/8" baffle. Ran out of daylight. 

It's going. It's Babcock slow, but it's going. 



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## dgage

All I use is the 3/4" Baltic Birch so I know it is strong but my initial reaction is to double them up or glue the 5/8" to give you a thicker mount because if it vibrates at all, you'll lose efficiency on the subs. Meaning the subs are going to push against the mount and if the pair of subs are able to move the mount at all, they won't have the output of a solid mount. If you don't want to double up the whole thing then maybe double up around the subs, which would also give you more bite if you were to use screws to mount the subs. And I'd use even more bracing in the center to ensure the middle doesn't move at all.

But looking good...stop moving Babcock slow.


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## Babs

Haha! K 7/8"+ 5/8" it is. That aughta be solid as a rock for two 12's. That's a bunch of ply layers. 


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## Babs

No excuses now. Plunge base and circle jig. Pretty rings for tweets and mids are tempting me but gotta stay on track, finish the IB wall first. 

Tool pron:










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## KrautNotRice

My vote goes for doubling up on the baffle for sure also, even for a single driver. I'm jealous you have a local lumber yard that stocks Baltic birch ply! Nice score!


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## Babs

KrautNotRice said:


> My vote goes for doubling up on the baffle for sure also, even for a single driver. I'm jealous you have a local lumber yard that stocks Baltic birch ply! Nice score!


Thanks, yeah that shop has literally pallets of the stuff in many different flavors. Come to realize, now I can't just throw any saw blade on it, so now gotta hunt a good and proper plywood blade for the old Skil saw for a nice clean cuts without a bunch of tear-outs on the top layer. Funny how one little project will make you buy a metric ton of tools.

Car audio has made me have to learn some carpentry, woodworking etc.

Tool tip of the day.  
Homemade saw track for doggone straight lines with a hand-held Skil saw.





And a bonus.. Playlist for cutting accurate rings down to even 1" in thin stuff.
Yato at CAE teaches circle cutting w/ plunge router

Updates coming guys.. Sorry for the delays.


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## dgage

I tell people I'm an avid DIYer but professional tool collector. You know you've got problems when you have to come up with a project to allow you to buy the next cool tool. But I really do love all of my Festool gear, especially the track saw.


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## Babs

So how'd y'all spend your Memorial Day weekend? I had fun with tools this weekend. Progress made. In short, made above straight saw track guide. Cut some wood. Got a plan together and baffle layers fitting, which because of the short width in front of the mount location was no small feat. I envy you guys who've got a straight shot for your baffle hole. Here we go...

Use whatcha got for straight edge guide.. I can now make straight cuts









Sealing layer of 1/4" 2-PC fitted









Putting saw and flush trim bit to work









Because the baffles are angled they of course don't line up so I drilled center sub holes for jasper jig pins while in car so to have the holes line up... Plan anyway. Looked good on paper. 
























How nice to learn how to use a plunge base for accuracy of depth.








Layer one, which would have probably sufficed. 7/8" 15 ply Russian birch ply. 








It fits!! You have no idea how stoked I am at this point. Second layer of 5/8" ply. 








All three layers as they lie in position in car. 1/4" MDF which is useless for strength but in two pieces can go in flush all around. 


























This baffle with subs weighs oh a metric ton or so.. But I can imagine MDF would have been heavier. The subs are the thing.. AE IB motors are no joke. 


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## Mic10is

Round over the top baffle for a cleaner look that's easier to finish in whatever material you decide


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## Babs

Mic10is said:


> Round over the top baffle for a cleaner look that's easier to finish in whatever material you decide



Yep I was thinking a round over or a champher bit. Round over might be a cleaner look.

Edit: 
Verified I've got a little 1/4" round-over bit sitting in the drawer ready to go, so there's the decision made for that one. Aughta look nice.

Thinking carpet likely, but could do something completely unconventional if I find some kind of cool vinyl at the local shop maybe. Trunk side will get carpet, certainly as I have some on hand that matches. 

If I carpet the front piece, I might run into a clearance issue around the drivers.. No sweat. Line it up over the second baffle and hit it with a small rabbet to open it up 1/8" or so. LOL! 


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## dgage

Looks great Babs! I'm hoping to follow your lead in a month or two with a pair of AE SBP15 in my TL.


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## Niebur3

Subscribed


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## oabeieo

Lookin good buddy,

It's cool to see all the different products folks settle on. 
I really like them subs.


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## Babs

dgage said:


> Looks great Babs! I'm hoping to follow your lead in a month or two with a pair of AE SBP15 in my TL.


Well, no second guessing there.. Those IME are probably about as good an IB sub as you could ask for. If you do the apollo upgrade, it's just gross excess goodness. I've not heard these IB12AU's before. I really have no idea what to expect. Trying to keep my expectations reasonable considering they're just 12's and first tier IB12AU's. Displacement certainly not being what two 15's would be. Will see.


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## Babs

So.. Next stop:

Hardware.. Gotta mount this IB beeyatch, fit it up in car then mark the spots for T-nuts, get a carpet thing going, etc.
Now I'm all brave and stuff, time to break out the type-1 PVC sheet do some little mid/tweet rings!! Booyah!

Tear out everything else and start thinking of the wiring updates.. It's all gotta go by the IB wall, so it's kinda sorta gotta be done fairly soon, unless I get silly and see if I can route over the top of the wheel well and come out by the driver side trunk corner where I'm planning the amp rack. Watch me not have enough 4awg from the battery. It'll be 4" too short I just know it.


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## Theslaking

You know for a couple hundred dollars you could get that "annoying poll" out of the middle of your garage. It's usually quite simple. If you possess the skills to build a box you have the ability to get rid of a post. That is the type of work I do every day. If you wanted advice on how i would love to give it. Most people are just intimidated by structural stuff. I could likely do it in less than an hour with some hangers and a few lvl's. Anything to see some unrestricted progress with this build


----------



## Babs

Theslaking said:


> You know for a couple hundred dollars you could get that "annoying poll" out of the middle of your garage. It's usually quite simple. If you possess the skills to build a box you have the ability to get rid of a post. That is the type of work I do every day. If you wanted advice on how i would love to give it. Most people are just intimidated by structural stuff. I could likely do it in less than an hour with some hangers and a few lvl's. Anything to see some unrestricted progress with this build



Cool. Might need to discuss it with you. It's holding glu-lams up. Looks like a pole every 8 feet or so, running the center joist span of the basement. 2-story house over it. Certainly load bearing. 

Luckily I got the car situated where it's not interfering with any doors. 

My learning curve with all these new-to-me techniques I think is my biggest obstacle for speed. The stuff you experienced guys knock out in a weekend I'm at the very start on the learning curve. Hehe


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## Theslaking

Believe it or not the two story part doesn't always mean much. The weight gets spread across walls like trusses. It doesn't actually travel down individual studs with our conventional construction. Anyway it's all speculation until I see it. And that's for another thread. As another IB'er i am eagerly waiting your finish.


----------



## Babs

A thought just occurred.. What size cap-head and T-nuts I wonder for mounting the subs?
I have some #8-32 and #10-32 kits on hand though the screws I'm sure will likely be a tad long for the job. What sayeth the gallery on that for good and proper attachment of the actual subs? I imagine I'll need to pop one of each into the frame hole on a sub and see what the sub hole tells me is a good fit.. Go big if possible.

Here's what I've got:
#8-32 kit from PE
#10-32 kit from PE

Also would it be kosher or blasphemous to "cut" off the slack if they're long causing them to protrude from the baffle back? Granted, the overhang is doing nothing if it's not grabbing T-nut threads.


----------



## dgage

I use 1/4 for my subs but I'm sure 8 #10 screws would be more than strong enough. 

If you need some, I have plenty of 1/4-20 slab nuts with screws. PM me if needed. I offer the following to AVS members since I bought them in bulk for my HT sub business. 
What fasteners are you using for big drivers? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

Cutting to length is easy with a hacksaw, just thread a couple nuts down, cut, file smooth, and then remove the nuts, which will straighten out the threads.


----------



## Babs

dgage said:


> I use 1/4 for my subs but I'm sure 8 #10 screws would be more than strong enough.
> 
> If you need some, I have plenty of 1/4-20 slab nuts with screws. PM me if needed. I offer the following to AVS members since I bought them in bulk for my HT sub business.
> What fasteners are you using for big drivers? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
> 
> Cutting to length is easy with a hacksaw, just thread a couple nuts down, cut, file smooth, and then remove the nuts, which will straighten out the threads.


That's cool.. May give you a shout. 

I'll do a little inventory this evening and see what I've got on hand. May scavenge from my old temporary 12tw1 install as well if I gotta. Heck I don't even recall which size I used. I only remember PE actually sent me an extra bag of one of those t-nut kits. Also have their "hurricane" nuts on hand but can't recall the size. I never used the "hurricane nuts" though as they looked like they could spin on you easier than T-nuts. Since the application was a sealed box that made me go for T-nuts. I'll get a better handle on what I've actually got when I rummage through the hardware bins this evening. 

I do have PE's gasket tape, however immediately upon it arriving (isn't that typically the case) I was told it stinks as a product.. The adhesive gets gooey and it degrades etc. Heck, may not need it with the rubber gasket on the drivers now.


----------



## Babs

No prob. Looks like I have plenty of either.








The rewards of over ordering stuff in the past, finally pays off.  I think the frame likes the #10's. 

Don't ya wish AE's were still shaved on the spider like these? That's gonna be sexy!!









Wonder what I can safely use to clean up the finish on the motors? These are new-to-me but not new, thanks again Erin! 


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## strakele

Yeah I love the machined spokes on the AE baskets - super sexy. I have the same PE #10 hex head screw/T-nut combo. On my drivers (not AE's) the narrow head didn't really seem like it gripped enough of the basket so I also used some little washers. May or may not be a factor for you.


----------



## Babs

The #10 heads looked fairly good but might hunt for a fairly low profile washer anyway. 


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## High Resolution Audio

It seems like you are enjoying this whole process. Everything matters. I like you you spent time straightening up the work space. A great deal of time on a project like this involves thinking, believe it or not as well as procuring parts. Calculating in your mind the various ways something can be done and deciding which route to take is all part of it. An uncluttered environment makes for an uncluttered mind. 

If you are not actually doing actual fabrication, its o.k. Spend time thinking......it's all part of the process. Even if you are just on the forum you are still doing research that will move you in the direction of your goal. 

I'm glad you have a good space to work in. Everything that you have done so far looks great. I'm glad you decided to go with carpet on the trunk side. I hope you choose a nice vinyl on the passenger side, so that you can learn a different set of skills. Before long, you will be doing installs for hire and charging big bucks!


----------



## Babs

High Resolution Audio said:


> Before long, you will be doing installs for hire and charging big bucks!


Hehe!! Ya really think so? That's cool!! Kinda funny I have friends referring friends to me on car audio stuff. I'm not even an amateur rookie level installer.  

On the fabrication part. That's about to get big when the pillars begin to happen. 

Definitely I have to say a lot of the brain work is in thinking what would a seasoned pro know to do at this point. Where can I screw the pooch on the next step. Kinda makes me an inexperienced perfectionist, but that's how I've gotta roll with it. Everything is new to me on this build as this is the real first build. 

But I have to say, folks like ErinH were doing this in his Civic like 8 years ago. And I was watching, and hoping and waiting and being inspired by his trailblazing. I'm way behind the 8-ball. But I've got guys like Erin, the Captain Steve and his awesome fabrication ability and incredible tuning acumen, Jason and his BRZ Goodness and incredible ears and love for music, Bill's blinging FJ Cruiser and cordial enthusiasm, Clay's impact and dynamics and smile in the face of adversity and tweeter explosions, Jay's awesome insight and encouragement, Big Al's great tips, Mic's seasoned advice, Forest's approval and encouragement, Andrew's great advice and insight, Greg and Scott B hooking me up on killer Helix gear and encouragement, Chris hookin a brutha up on a great amp, Chad the indisputable himself on design and sound, Steve the 'stallion speaker builder extraordinaire, and a lot of folks I've met at NCSQ who can sense a newb who wants to learn so they rally behind him and yell "get r done already!" That means a lot. Sheer absolute class. All you guys! So if I can rock an 80 or whatever is a respectable score at a comp, while still saying I built this.. All my damn self, then I'll be satisfied I learned something. 

There's a lot of guys in here who've done a bunch of cars, won a bunch of competitions, treaded into awesome new fabrication grounds. You've got my upmost thanks and admiration for showing your work. This build I hope to make a good show of a first time learning experience and honor all you guys who've done it before and shared your knowledge and skill. 


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## dgage

Babs - where in Asheville do you live? I'm driving over from Knoxville to meet with a cabinet builder in Candler, NC to see if I can outsource the enclosure building of my home theater subs. I hope we can meet up sometime as I periodically make it over to Asheville, mainly for AVS GTGs.


----------



## Babs

dgage said:


> Babs - where in Asheville do you live? I'm driving over from Knoxville to meet with a cabinet builder in Candler, NC to see if I can outsource the enclosure building of my home theater subs. I hope we can meet up sometime as I periodically make it over to Asheville, mainly for AVS GTGs.


I'm on the south side (Fletcher) area. Sure hit me up maybe grab a beer. AV GTG's here? I had no idea. Used to frequent the forum but gave up on the other side of my basement for a theater build. 


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## Babs

Minor update: Did a little test fit in car. So far so good. Holes line up in car and driver goes in. Next steps, mounting, sealing, carpeting, wiring and onward to pillars.
















On mounting, I think it'll be worth it to pull the cover over the fuel pump and see if I can get a feeler on each side under the metal and see if the front trunk floor is fair game for rivnuts maybe. That'd sure make doing a piece of angle aluminum mounted to baffle and floor a possibility. Dunno how kosher that'd be, being in proximity to fuel tank. Won't know I guess until I explore. Sure would make a solid mount there easier. Otherwise could mount to the channel across the front bottom of the baffle I suppose but would be a bit more difficult with some interesting bracket work, and harder to conceal. 

So getting away from the IB a tad, pulled out a sheet of the 1/4" type-1 PVC and marked up a spot for a 10F ring after roughing up the surface.










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## Mic10is

are you doing foam around the edges of the baffle to help decouple it? If not, it will help a lot with energy transfer into the vehicle which can lead to rattles


----------



## Black Rain

Scott, your wood work is coming along create. That is awesome IB baffle and those AE baskets looks really nice.


----------



## Babs

Mic10is said:


> are you doing foam around the edges of the baffle to help decouple it? If not, it will help a lot with energy transfer into the vehicle which can lead to rattles


Yes, though I didn't so much allow space for it top/bottom, so my luck, I'll be trimming possibly on a few edges. I'm digging the Armacell tape idea for the foam. I'll probably also load up on CCF and MLV from Don for the trunk and deck work also, so CCF may be quite useful as well.


----------



## Babs

Black Rain said:


> Scott, your wood work is coming along create. That is awesome IB baffle and those AE baskets looks really nice.




Thanks!! She's getting closer one itty bitty step at a time. 


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## WhereAmEye?

About time I found this, woodworking skills are coming along nicely!


----------



## Babs

Just noticed something. You guys that know AE subs.. These look like IB12AU's or hmm?? The motors look more like the SBP's. Curious. Maybe the motors just changed over the years.























AE website pics of each:

















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## Babs

Called Don at SDS today. What a solid guy of course as we all know. As I've always said before, that's why I like SDS, even though I think their products are top notch, you're also dealing with a straight up great fellow. So, got some goodies ordered for the treatment work, especially sealing and deadening.. Good bit of MLV and CCF coming.


----------



## thehatedguy

I think you have SBPs.

They all share the same motor for the different sizes


----------



## High Resolution Audio

I can't wait to see what you do with deadening?


----------



## ErinH

I bought them as IB AU's. If they're SBP's then the dude that sold them to me hosed himself. He coulda got more money for them. Scott, I need you to send me more money as well!    

J/K.


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## Babs

ErinH said:


> I bought them as IB AU's. If they're SBP's then the dude that sold them to me hosed himself. He coulda got more money for them. Scott, I need you to send me more money as well!
> 
> J/K.



Check's in the mail. 

Yeah I dunno. Not it really matters to me so long as they boogie but who doesn't like a good mystery. You never know. Had a guy sell me a set of $900 motorcycle exhaust once for $200 because he wanted to try a different set and he said he just swaps around all the time. 



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## Babs

Today's fun with power tools. Ringy ding ding!



















































Now what are the odds of that!? The leftover inner ring from the 10F cutout is actually perfect for the OD of the D3004 ring. Kewl!!!


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## Babs

Packages arrived from SDS, thanks Don! Plan is to do the floor from IB wall up, sealing where helpful from the trunk, the rear deck, and if any left the rear doors. I'm gonna need more motor! Lol. Maybe a turbo, and better suspension. Hehe  SDS MLV is serious business. Weighs a ton!

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## bertholomey

Sweet!!! I'm so looking forward to seeing / hearing this car!!!


----------



## Babs

bertholomey said:


> Sweet!!! I'm so looking forward to seeing / hearing this car!!!


Same here! 
Will be interesting to see what a difference the MLV work makes on the road.. It's one thing to sit in a driveway and sound good, then have a mega amount of road noise in a sporty little car as soon as you get her moving. She won't be Subterfuse Uber-Audi quiet LOL but hopefully more enjoyable while in flight.


----------



## Babs

Babs said:


> Same here!
> Will be interesting to see what a difference the MLV work makes on the road.. It's one thing to sit in a driveway and sound good, then have a mega amount of road noise in a sporty little car as soon as you get her moving. She won't be Subterfuse Uber-Audi quiet LOL but hopefully more enjoyable while in flight.





Babs said:


> Packages arrived from SDS, thanks Don! Plan is to do the floor from IB wall up, sealing where helpful from the trunk, the rear deck, and if any left the rear doors. I'm gonna need more motor! Lol. Maybe a turbo, and better suspension. Hehe  SDS MLV is serious business. Weighs a ton!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Although.. Unlike amps and gear, treatments are kind of a 1-time / 1-car use. Hmm.. Car has 90k miles.. The next-project ('13 Tacoma) has 25k.  So I may relegate the CCF and MLV for effective treatment around the deck and wheel well areas where it can be made use of for wave-blocking and sealing the IB.. But save the rest for the Tacoma. That'd also be much faster and sticking to the projects at hand.


----------



## oabeieo

What kind of upholstery are you going to wrap the sub wall with.? 

It's looking great ,


----------



## Babs

oabeieo said:


> What kind of upholstery are you going to wrap the sub wall with.?
> 
> It's looking great ,



Thanks. 

For the front I'm thinking possibly a vinyl of some kind, though I'm not ruling out a fabric if I find something that would look good and go well with the cabin interior. A carpet would hide the middle seam better however so it's still on the table as an option. Heck, I'm still pondering just being completely silly and doing a SEM texture coat even. Basically two sheet of 1/4".. Could do a quick primer, spray and done.

For the trunk side it'll definitely be carpet. I have some that's a pretty decent match I got from Audio Integrations when I got the Civic-specific corner enclosure.. They found some that's a darn near identical match so when I got that box I got some extra carpet.


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## Mic10is

Babs said:


> Thanks.
> 
> For the front I'm thinking possibly a vinyl of some kind, though I'm not ruling out a fabric if I find something that would look good and go well with the cabin interior. A carpet would hide the middle seam better however so it's still on the table as an option. Heck, I'm still pondering just being completely silly and doing a SEM texture coat even. Basically two sheet of 1/4".. Could do a quick primer, spray and done.
> 
> For the trunk side it'll definitely be carpet. I have some that's a pretty decent match I got from Audio Integrations when I got the Civic-specific corner enclosure.. They found some that's a darn near identical match so when I got that box I got some extra carpet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



primer it or seal the wood and use brushed aluminum vinyl


----------



## Babs

Mic10is said:


> primer it or seal the wood and use brushed aluminum vinyl


Ooooooohh  That sounds cool! Will that stuff stretch enough to wrap around the driver holes? Searching now.
Found it:








Looks VERY easy!

Hmm.. Since I have so much of that look in the console area, there might be a use somewhere for the pillars.. Maybe rings or something. Maybe not. 

And BAM! 5ftx2ft under $40


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## oabeieo

That would look pretty nice actually.


----------



## Mic10is

Babs said:


> Ooooooohh  That sounds cool! Will that stuff stretch enough to wrap around the driver holes? Searching now.
> Found it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks VERY easy!
> 
> Hmm.. Since I have so much of that look in the console area, there might be a use somewhere for the pillars.. Maybe rings or something. Maybe not.
> 
> And BAM! 5ftx2ft under $40


get the primer too
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Tape-Primer-94-Vinyl/dp/B005LDG7HQ

light coat on the main surface and then heavier coat where it makes a bend or when pulling it around to the backside, make sure to coat the edges so it doesnt lift off.


----------



## Babs

Mic10is said:


> get the primer too
> http://www.amazon.com/3M-Tape-Primer-94-Vinyl/dp/B005LDG7HQ
> 
> light coat on the main surface and then heavier coat where it makes a bend or when pulling it around to the backside, make sure to coat the edges so it doesnt lift off.


Duly noted.


----------



## Babs

Nothing major.. But on minor developments/progress:

I tested Steve's freebie scrap (you ROCK Steve!).. Low-temp plastic adhesion to this type-1 PVC.. Little scrap pieces.. PVC purple primer, then PVC glue. Nothing exotic, just the Oatey PVC glue stuff which I grew up on in a family plumbing company. 

Results: The low-temp plastic actually peeled away from itself with the destructive test, so the glue adhesion is actually stronger than low-temp plastic. Should work fine. 

Looking for more of the LT plastic. Best I can tell it's simply Sintra expanded PVC sheet which explains why PVC to PVC should adhere well.. So if the poly resin I have actually will bond to it, thunderbirds are go.

Looks like, I have some "potential" IB wall mounting hardware already around the garage.. Some aluminum L-channel and some flat sheet strip of aluminum I think it is, might be steel.. The strip of stuff with the holes going along it, sorry don't know the proper name. The stuff you see in 8' lengths in the bins at lowes. 

Picked up some stainless 1/4-20 hex-head screws and got some washers and stuff on hand. Got a decent bit of 1/4-20 rivnuts but will see if I need more. Trick is bolting through the baffles in such a way to be well hidden as possible. Also deciding how many and where.. Typical newb learning curve with IB mounting.. As usual, overthinking.

Typical kind of off-shelf hardware I've been looking at though rather than reinventing the wheel and fabricating from cuts of the L-channel.

















Wide open for suggestions on that.


----------



## Mic10is

Babs said:


> Nothing major.. But on minor developments/progress:
> 
> I tested Steve's freebie scrap (you ROCK Steve!).. Low-temp plastic adhesion to this type-1 PVC.. Little scrap pieces.. PVC purple primer, then PVC glue. Nothing exotic, just the Oatey PVC glue stuff which I grew up on in a family plumbing company.
> 
> Results: The low-temp plastic actually peeled away from itself with the destructive test, so the glue adhesion is actually stronger than low-temp plastic. Should work fine.
> 
> Looking for more of the LT plastic. Best I can tell it's simply Sintra expanded PVC sheet which explains why PVC to PVC should adhere well.. So if the poly resin I have actually will bond to it, thunderbirds are go.
> 
> Looks like, I have some "potential" IB wall mounting hardware already around the garage.. Some aluminum L-channel and some flat sheet strip of aluminum I think it is, might be steel.. The strip of stuff with the holes going along it, sorry don't know the proper name. The stuff you see in 8' lengths in the bins at lowes.
> 
> Picked up some stainless 1/4-20 hex-head screws and got some washers and stuff on hand. Got a decent bit of 1/4-20 rivnuts but will see if I need more. Trick is bolting through the baffles in such a way to be well hidden as possible. Also deciding how many and where.. Typical newb learning curve with IB mounting.. As usual, overthinking.
> 
> Typical kind of off-shelf hardware I've been looking at though rather than reinventing the wheel and fabricating from cuts of the L-channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wide open for suggestions on that.


thats what I used on the backside . also used "hurricane" hangers, which are similar. Roofing section of HD, used for roofing reinforcement.


----------



## Babs

Mic10is said:


> thats what I used on the backside . also used "hurricane" hangers, which are similar. Roofing section of HD, used for roofing reinforcement.



That's cool! On bottom I'm still thinking of pulling the plate over the fuel pump to see what kind of space is between tank and floor to verify or deny possibility of rivnuts on the floor. I haven't done it because I had pretty much figured rivnuts would be a no no there. 


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## oabeieo

You keep saying your a noob, from the looks of things you have a good handle on what's up. Fab looks solid, and with over 3000 posts I'm sure your anything from a noob. Give yourself a bit of cred , dood it looks really well done. 

I like mic's idea about the hangers, the ones in top pic are good but I've snapped a few them over the years . I think it's just pot metal/ some cheap composite of dirty steel and tin.


----------



## Mic10is

simplest solution...get the armacell or thicker foam in between the baffle and the backseat frame. and just shoot a ton of pan head type screws from the front into the baffle and then from the back of the baffle into the framing.
add the hangers to the backside for extra security.
spray foam around the edges
shave it down.
carpet
done


----------



## Babs

oabeieo said:


> You keep saying your a noob, from the looks of things you have a good handle on what's up. Fab looks solid, and with over 3000 posts I'm sure your anything from a noob. Give yourself a bit of cred , dood it looks really well done.
> 
> I like mic's idea about the hangers, the ones in top pic are good but I've snapped a few them over the years . I think it's just pot metal/ some cheap composite of dirty steel and tin.


Thanks for the confidence. 

Yeah I guess transitioning from armchair QB to actually doing the work, I guess I'm kinda over-perfectionist.  No worries though, having a blast.. Gotta get it done though, I'm getting itchy to hear it.
On brackets, since I do have what appears to be some rather strong aluminum L-channel, and since I like fab'ing stuff, I'll probably use that in at least a couple spots. Cut it, drill it, and make it work. 
When I was a kid getting into some kind of project, I developed the habit of garage bin scrounging because my dad was a hardware hoarder. LOL! Habit stuck.


----------



## Babs

Finally got some time to work on the ride.

And....... I wait.. How long does glue take to cure up?
















Looked it up. Clamp time 12 hours. Damnit!



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## Babs

Got holes for sub mounts dialed in. Figure I'll wait until they actually go in maybe to set the T-nuts.









Picked up some brackets. These aughta hold it stronger than the car itself. 











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## Babs

Finally getting to the fun stuff. Sealing up. This is a start..

Under the rear deck. Lots of little and a few big holes to cover up:









On to the deck panel. I think if the CCF and MLV can go between panel and deck, I can call it done as far as the deck goes. 









Next item.. Cover this with CCF / MLV:









Wiring.. 
Dial in the fiber optic from console area to trunk. Console to house the HDMI to optical converter. 

New speaker wire runs. Never been too thrilled about the old aging kicker stuff I ran back in 2011. So thinking three new runs of this per side. 16awg Belden I've got on a spool. That'll mean running new into doors. Eeeww.
















Which makes me think hmm pigtails on the speakers? I've got 16awg powerpoles a plenty on hand now. 

Then on to trunk corner amp rack idea:









Then off to see Mic who's offered some instruction in fiberglassing to get the pillars going. 



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## bertholomey

You are making excellent progress Scott! 

Wish you were at a stage that you could go up to Charlottesville with us on the 25th, but you are doing a great job all the same!


----------



## Babs

bertholomey said:


> You are making excellent progress Scott!
> 
> 
> 
> Wish you were at a stage that you could go up to Charlottesville with us on the 25th, but you are doing a great job all the same!



Actually I'm planning on it after talking to Steve and you had mentioned it.. However it'd be on two wheels.  Good excuse to ride. Plus you guys haven't seen the scoot in person, so I gotta show off something. 


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## bertholomey

It will be fantastic seeing you and the scoot!


----------



## ebrahim

How do you like the alpine amplifiers?


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## Babs

ebrahim said:


> How do you like the alpine amplifiers?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Love em. I will say on my last tune running analog from 80PRS through Helix 8ch DSP I did have a rather annoying noise floor. I suspect that might have been gain setting and/or cheap interconnect related. I'll certainly work on that this go around. But the sound quality from the PDX's I think was pretty darn good. But on noise the one thing I do like about amps such as JL XD's or Rockford Power series, which isn't specified on PDX's, is differential-balanced inputs. 

I need to test the PDX's and see if their inputs are balanced (good) or single-ended (not-so-good). I suppose that'd be as easy as checking for continuity between input RCA neg/shields and amp ground, or for continuity between channels at RCA neg/shields. Correct?

On noise, I'll tell ya also, of all the systems I've heard, I've heard dead nutz quiet systems and right up there was Erin's setup using the JL XDv2's, volume controlled at the amps with the JL remote. Heard them also in CaptainObvious' corolla also I believe. It made me a believer that JL XD's can satisfy about anyone's point of diminishing returns for great performance, unless they simply wanted to get wild and go Mosconi / Zapco / Sinfoni / uber-boutique class-A expensive goodness brand. I'm not swapping amps anytime soon, but you can kinda tell where my lean is.

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## Darkrider

You've convinced me.

Sub'd.


----------



## oabeieo

Guess I never really noticed , is that birch ply ? 
I just got a sheet and made my box out of birch . 1/2 the weight of mdf and dosent turn to crumble wood after 5yrs


----------



## Babs

oabeieo said:


> Guess I never really noticed , is that birch ply ?
> I just got a sheet and made my box out of birch . 1/2 the weight of mdf and dosent turn to crumble wood after 5yrs



Yep, from this post.. I found a great local supplier...


Babs said:


> So minor update. Found the coolest local warehouse today with all kinds of goodies. The guy that helped me builds home speakers, small world. They had every kind of wood stuff from wood flooring to big artistic cuts of cypress. Awesome place. So I picked up two 5x5 sheets of this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian birch ply. A sheet of 7/8" and 5/8". Pretty solid







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----------



## oabeieo

Babs said:


> Yep, from this post.. I found a great local supplier...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Oh that's the good ****


----------



## High Resolution Audio

If I could offer a tip. When building enclosures with wood, In my opinion, Construction Adhesive ( such as PL-400 or similar ) makes for a stronger bond as opposed to plain ole wood glue.


----------



## dgage

High Resolution Audio said:


> If I could offer a tip. When building enclosures with wood, In my opinion, Construction Adhesive ( such as PL-400 or similar ) makes for a stronger bond as opposed to plain ole wood glue.


Actually that's not true. Multiple tests have shown (good) wood glue to be stronger than construction adhesive. But that doesn't matter as both types are more than strong enough for subwoofer enclosures. The one advantage construction adhesive has over wood glue is its ability to fill gaps to ensure an air tight seal. But if the panels are cut square and clean, that shouldn't be needed.


----------



## Babs

This is the stuff I used for the two pieces since that's what I had in the drawer, then clamping best I could for a tight bond everywhere. 









Has six wood screws in it, two middle, two each side, but can add more. However it appears to be rock solid. I bet the glue bond is stronger than the lamination itself. 


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## High Resolution Audio

Babs said:


> This is the stuff I used for the two pieces since that's what I had in the drawer, then clamping best I could for a tight bond everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has six wood screws in it, two middle, two each side, but can add more. However it appears to be rock solid. I bet the glue bond is stronger than the lamination itself.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Screws are really only there to act as a clamp while the glue dries. It will be strong enough with Elmers. The benefit of using construction adhesive is that it also seals the joints and makes them airtight. If you are trying to make a sealed box, that is. In your case, I think you are making an Infinite Baffle, so it does not matter.


----------



## Babs

High Resolution Audio said:


> Screws are really only there to act as a clamp while the glue dries. It will be strong enough with Elmers. The benefit of using construction adhesive is that it also seals the joints and makes them airtight. If you are trying to make a sealed box, that is. In your case, I think you are making an Infinite Baffle, so it does not matter.



Right. Two slabs of birch ply for IB wall. Made sure for 100% area coverage, spreading with a filler spreader. Used the two first screws pre-done for alignment of the boards when I mated them which worked nicely. Then clamp clamp clamp for curing. 

Playing under the fuel pump cover now to feel and see if I can safely do some rivnuts on the floor above for the baffle bottom L-bracket mounts. Approaching that with extreme prejudice and caution. 


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## High Resolution Audio

If you make a mistake those subs might play really hot!


----------



## Babs

Yeah. No mistakes


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## strong*I*bumpin

Dont want to see a grown man cry,please proceed with caution!


----------



## dgage

I was wondering what you guys were talking about...missed the part where Babs is playing with fire, er, I mean fuel pumps.  I have confidence in his abilities and his intelligence.


----------



## lucas569

Babs are you mounting the scans in the same manner as your NVX's? (new pods?)


----------



## Babs

lucas569 said:


> Babs are you mounting the scans in the same manner as your NVX's? (new pods?)




Done into pillars themselves rather than a pod. Goals of best sound with stealth. Remove visual queues as much as possible, while still doing good axis pointing and placement. 



I had wrestled on two options.. 



1. Inset sealed enclosure similar to this civic I found somewhere:



















2. Free-air conventional pillar job.. Fleecing, glassing, etc, directly to the pillar, in such a way to be non-"bulging" and hidden behind a cloth press-fit grill maybe. 



..I've got spare pillars on hand, so leaning option 2. 



I'm about to kick this thing up about 3 gears so more to come. I kinda figured the IB wall would be the biggie, but it's coming along again now. She'll be mounted up and hopefully covered, materials depending, this week.


----------



## lucas569

those are nice, though i think in grey would suit my taste better. ive been collecting idea pics from here and google images. check out some of the gems i found.


----------



## lucas569

check out the newer civic oem a pillars. LUCKY SOB's. Gets the idea juices flowing though as the newer pillar looks damn near the same!


----------



## Babs

lucas569 said:


> check out the newer civic oem a pillars. LUCKY SOB's. Gets the idea juices flowing though as the newer pillar looks damn near the same!


Yeah the 9th gen was as if Honda heard all of us in 8thcivic forum crying because we didn't want to stick tweeters up under the windshield. 

Actually though, for pillars, the little window area of my 8th pretty much screams "mids and tweets gotta go here", even a bit easier than the 9th or 10th civics. It's kind of an imperative with all that space in the window. Looking forward to knocking that out.


----------



## Babs

Hey guys I've come up with an idea for covering the front facing portion of the IB wall. 

Can someone point me to where to find a close match to the alcantara or suede style fabric in the 8th Civic Si's?

Although as I think about it I'm really liking Mic's brushed aluminum wrap idea still. 

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## Babs

It's coming along.












































Working on the top now, about 5-6 points. Once all the hardware lengths are figured out there should be not screws breaking the plane on the back side. 

Top run I'm thinking all bets off on hurricane nuts though because they'll be at a slight angle. Possibly going through a piece of angle aluminum I've got on hand. Should be strong as death. 

It's armpit hot in that basement right now. Like hotter than damnit. 


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## chithead

Awesome work sir!


----------



## Babs

Pretty holes.










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## Kazuhiro

Subbed for your IB goodness in return


----------



## Babs

It's the little things that count. Some of Don's lovely CCF on the rear deck panel. Trying to decide if MLV there is necessary since I've got the deck pretty darn covered in CLD. 

Oh what's next?
Where to go what to do? 
Dontcha hate those points where a big job is kinda sorta done and you're like hmmmmm what mess can I make now. 


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## Babs

Guess I can drop in the subs and set the T-nuts, since I flushed in for them.


















Yes I will be taking some Scotch-brite to that magnet. 


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## Locomotive Tech

Damn bro, it's all your fault! This build took me off the fence and convinced me that it was time to start my 2014 Si. The women in my house don't quite as highly of you as I do.

Thanks!


----------



## FunkPnut

The suspense is killing me! 

Looks great so far.

What did you use to flush the threaded nuts like that?


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## Babs

FunkPnut said:


> The suspense is killing me!
> 
> Looks great so far.
> 
> What did you use to flush the threaded nuts like that?



Free-handed it. Clamped down the baffle to my workbench, penciled my little outlines of the T-nuts, then using the flange of the T-nut to set my depth with a plunge base and 1/4" spiral bit (down cut bit for this shallow depth application) on the router. Easy peezy Mac and Cheezy! 

At that depth, it cuts like butter so you can gently ease your bit cut right along the little circle line drawn. 

The down cut bit, while not good for deeper cuts other than a table router setup as seen when I fubar'd my first MDF baffle at the beginning of this thread, is good here for preventing the top ply layer from tearing out, and too shallow a cut to kick your router out. 

The kind of thing that would have scared the crap out of me when I started this build. 

Teaches me a lot of this stuff merely takes experience and simply trying and doing it, and digging into how-to videos. 

I figure if I can acquire skill at mixing ratio for resin and MKEP, I'll be dangerous. 



Locomotive Tech said:


> Damn bro, it's all your fault! This build took me off the fence and convinced me that it was time to start my 2014 Si. The women in my house don't quite as highly of you as I do.
> 
> Thanks!



HAHAHA!! Glad to inspire your eviction to the dog house! Definitely get a thread going.. Haven't seen very many 9th gen civic builds. Looks like a good platform. A silly easy platform for a 2-way. Literally drop in the tweets and off you go. 

Next stop I think is just screw lengths so when mounted into place the screw just comes to the end of the hurricane nuts so they don't poke through the trunk side carpet.. Trip to lowes, again, and then carpet on the back side and time to take scissors to the OEM trunk liner. !!! Oh snap!



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## Babs

This is the fun of cars. I'm in my doors re-running wires so I can have a final bundle to pass by the IB wall, so I can finish the IB wall. Go figure.









The ring is holding up. Can't stand this install but for now sticking with the plan. Stay on target. 









Little SB17 mid holding up ok. I do have TM65 dreams though. Along with re-doing a ring-through-doorcard setup similar to Jason's BRZ. 

















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## Babs

Don's CLD tiles (SoundDeadenerShowdown) also holding up well since 2011.










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## Zippy

Babs said:


> I do have TM65 dreams though.


Dude, I have a pair just sitting around. Want me to bring them for you to the fall NCSQ get together at Jason's?


----------



## Babs

Zippy said:


> Dude, I have a pair just sitting around. Want me to bring them for you to the fall NCSQ get together at Jason's?



I'm kinda on the spend freeze at present but thanks for now.  plus I dunno if I've got the ponies from a bridged PDX F4 to give them what they need. 


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## Locomotive Tech

I thought the same thing about a 2-way, but I have always wanted a three way.....but haven't we all! The glass at the A-pillar begs for it.


----------



## Zippy

Babs said:


> I'm kinda on the spend freeze at present but thanks for now.  plus I dunno if I've got the ponies from a bridged PDX F4 to give them what they need.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They are new in box, never powered. I bought them as an impulse buy since they so seldom come up for sale new. The power specs on them is 120w at 2 ohm. You have the horses. The fall get together is a few months out still. Let me know if you want me to bring them for you.


----------



## Locomotive Tech

By the way, here is a picture of my passenger door. While I was installing the deadener I realized that sealing those massive holes will be a challenge with the door cables and elec. door lock harness passing through so I re-routed and or added wire length to go around.

If you notice, I re-routed the door lock cables through the panel right behind the handle assembly, just cut a hole to allow them to pass through and put them through a grommet. A friend said it looked stock. I did the same with the window harness and the electric lock plug too.


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## Babs

Locomotive Tech said:


> By the way, here is a picture of my passenger door. While I was installing the deadener I realized that sealing those massive holes will be a challenge with the door cables and elec. door lock harness passing through so I re-routed and or added wire length to go around.



I approached it by CCF and MLV which even with the gaping hole, appears to "seal" fairly well. Call Don at SDS. His MLV gets it done. I found also using the foam ring made a huge improvement in getting the sound from leaking behind the doorcard which is awful. 

I'll tell you this since that door looks "virgin".. Study Bertholomy's BRZ thread. That's the way to do a door install. I eventually want that. I saved the pertinent pics here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwilEarPfKvuMXpJMXc5NXdYR28


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## Locomotive Tech

Some really good ideas just crossed through my head after looking at those pic's. Very nice! SDS is awesome and luckily I work in MD and didn't have to pay the shipping.

I am exploring ideas on how to keep the air out of the door card, it's difficult because the round speaker does not "line up" with the rectangular grille of the door card. Sure do like what Jason did but not sure I want to cut up the card? But probably will eventually.


----------



## Babs

Locomotive Tech said:


> I am exploring ideas on how to keep the air out of the door card, it's difficult because the round speaker does not "line up" with the rectangular grille of the door card.



Yeah that presents a challenge. The F.A.S.T. rings (the foam you see around my driver) really helps. Folks have asked if it really makes a difference. I'm a believer if there's any gap between speaker and door, most certainly. 




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## Zippy

I have similar on my BRZ and RAV that was done before fast rings existed. Closed cell foam tape roll around the driver to help direct sound. Well worth doing.


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## Babs

Locomotive looking at your door, you actually have it made in that you don't have cables and switches hanging through the holes much. I'd explore (no kidding), masking it off and doing a fiberglass layer in that big oval area or over those three big holes at least. That would allow a sheet over the non-flat surfaces to seal it up. Then just CLD over the little holes that aren't essential for the door card going on. Badda boom!


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## Babs

Zippy said:


> I have similar on my BRZ and RAV that was done before fast rings existed. Closed cell foam tape roll around the driver to help direct sound. Well worth doing.



Yeah I'm so tempted to take a Dremel to the crappy door card grill. I know it's coming someday. Someone proficiently experienced with glassing would have already done it.


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## Locomotive Tech

I should have shown the before and after pics of the door. Before I re-routed the cables and wires out of the maintenance access holes


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## Locomotive Tech

Babs said:


> Locomotive looking at your door, you actually have it made in that you don't have cables and switches hanging through the holes much. I'd explore (no kidding), masking it off and doing a fiberglass layer in that big oval area or over those three big holes at least. That would allow a sheet over the non-flat surfaces to seal it up. Then just CLD over the little holes that aren't essential for the door card going on. Badda boom!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't have any experience working with fiberglass so I revert to what I know. Have some diamond plate that I am currently beating, bending and forming to the access hole dimensions with a .5" overlap to the inner door skin and using riv nuts to secure. Then I will apply the CLD and seal it up. very tedious process but has some sort of relaxing affect on my brain.


----------



## Babs

Locomotive Tech said:


> I don't have any experience working with fiberglass so I revert to what I know. Have some diamond plate that I am currently beating, bending and forming to the access hole dimensions with a .5" overlap to the inner door skin and using riv nuts to secure. Then I will apply the CLD and seal it up. very tedious process but has some sort of relaxing affect on my brain.



Rock on brother! That'll work too. However invented rivnuts earned a place in heaven. I'll be using a couple in trunk for the corner amp rack, into existing holes. 

You have no idea, well maybe you do, how excited I am at this.. New 14awg with some lube slide right through taped to the old stuff it replaced. Just not having to completely pull that door boot was a gift from heaven.








This stuff. Worth it's weight in gold. 










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## Locomotive Tech

No doubt, the wire lube is often an after thought. After 3 hours of trying to fish two new sets of wire through the grommet. I also push a long length of hook up wire first and tape the new speaker wire to it and pull the new wires through with the hook up wire as the fisher. Funny how the passenger side went smoothly and the driver side was a pain the arse. Probably cause I'm right handed


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## Babs

Locomotive Tech said:


> No doubt, the wire lube is often an after thought. After 3 hours of trying to fish two new sets of wire through the grommet. I also push a long length of hook up wire first and tape the new speaker wire to it and pull the new wires through with the hook up wire as the fisher. Funny how the passenger side went smoothly and the driver side was a pain the arse. Probably cause I'm right handed



Driver side will typically have more wires involved for all the extra controls on that side. 

Yeah don't laugh.. I resorted to what I know. Got a spool of thick weed eater cord. So I snip off a piece, sand down any jaggies on the end, lube it up and poke it up into the boot from each side to coat the existing wire and wherever I can wet it, then it broke loose and slide back and forth easy. Then tape, pull, done. I'm sure they've got to make a small itty bitty wire snake, I've just not looked. 


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## dgage

FunkPnut said:


> What did you use to flush the threaded nuts like that?


I would have used a forstener bit since I have a set and feel that is the better tool for the job. But I do understand the best tool is often the tool you have.


----------



## Zippy

Before you guys get too far down the cut the door panel thought, you can go all in before you cut and work towards actual enclosures like what Gary Summers did. Measure where you would cut the door card and with the door card off build within that measurement on the door. Then when the enclosures are done cut the door card. You can still use the car while working on it without it looking like you are working on it. 

Gary's doors


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## Babs

dgage said:


> I would have used a forstener bit since I have a set and feel that is the better tool for the job. But I do understand the best tool is often the tool you have.



You're right on the money actually. A forstener in a press would be awesome. No press though and I wouldn't have that bit perfectly straight if it killed me with a handheld wobbly dewalt drill. 

Or wait.. Can you drop a forstener bit in a plunge router? Holy great idea Batman! Showing my ignorance now. 


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## Babs

Well the job just got bigger. I'm done with wood for this. I guess the doors will get a head start on their re-do. 











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## FunkPnut

dgage said:


> I would have used a forstener bit since I have a set and feel that is the better tool for the job. But I do understand the best tool is often the tool you have.


Excellent, I'm ordering!


----------



## edouble101

*Re: Babs' 08 Honda C_ivic Si Sedan*



Babs said:


> Well the job just got bigger. I'm done with wood for this. I guess the doors will get a head start on their re-do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I use white kitchen cutting boards for door speaker mounting rings. Cheap, easy to cut and long lasting.


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## Babs

An idea I had for an end goal, except with a grill. Just found this one on the interwebz. 


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## Locomotive Tech

Babs said:


> Well the job just got bigger. I'm done with wood for this. I guess the doors will get a head start on their re-do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That sucks, I use UHMWPE, I have access to copious amounts of that stuff.


----------



## Locomotive Tech

Zippy said:


> Before you guys get too far down the cut the door panel thought, you can go all in before you cut and work towards actual enclosures like what Gary Summers did. Measure where you would cut the door card and with the door card off build within that measurement on the door. Then when the enclosures are done cut the door card. You can still use the car while working on it without it looking like you are working on it.
> 
> Gary's doors


Man that's nice, far beyond my capabilities though, would have to have a pro tackle that for me


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## Babs

So I stand corrected.. It had been so long I forgot what used. That ring was MDF. crumbled in my hands. Never again. 


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## Babs

Speaker wire bundle right side. Terrible pic sorry. 


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## Babs

Locomotive Tech said:


> That sucks, I use UHMWPE, I have access to copious amounts of that stuff.



Nice. How does it route?

I'm in the hunt now for 1" material of some flavor. Those rings were 7" OD, 5-5/8" ID. 


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## Locomotive Tech

Babs said:


> Nice. How does it route?
> 
> I'm in the hunt now for 1" material of some flavor. Those rings were 7" OD, 5-5/8" ID.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmm, good question. I never tried a router, I use hole saws and a band saw without an issue. A coarser blade seems to work best. Move slow and let the blade cut, too much force and it will melt. Big ole mess when you are done. Some guys at work use silicone or water for lubricant, but I never have cause I was only doing a little bit


----------



## LBaudio

Nice work, man!


----------



## Babs

So how about some 1" expanded PVC sheet for the door baffles?












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## Locomotive Tech

Never tried it personally, should work. The UHMW would have more mass for sure.


----------



## Babs

So given the huge reference to HDPE in here like forever in a thousand threads, I took the plunge.. Ordered a 1x12x24 sheet here.


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## captainobvious

Babs said:


> This stuff. Worth it's weight in gold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk






I just used this. Was that wrong...?























.


----------



## captainobvious

Good choice. The HDPE is better than the expanded pvc for sure.


----------



## Babs

captainobvious said:


> I just used this. Was that wrong...?



 LOL!!! Ah, but if it's sitting on your garage shelf, friends or family show up and are snooping around the workshop, which would ya rather have on display?  Granted if you ask Chad, he pulls wire with KY.  It's strangely all the same stuff. Who'd a thunk it.
I'll tell you this, which you already know.. It's absolutely right up there with duck tape and WD-40 on the hierarchy of necessary tools list.



And I'll add, I may for an interesting reason, need to run a second run into doors for four conductors.  So that might be kinda stretching my luck with those door boots unless I back down to a 16awg 4-conductor.


----------



## Locomotive Tech

Babs said:


> LOL!!! Ah, but if it's sitting on your garage shelf, friends or family show up and are snooping around the workshop, which would ya rather have on display?  Granted if you ask Chad, he pulls wire with KY.  It's strangely all the same stuff. Who'd a thunk it.
> I'll tell you this, which you already know.. It's absolutely right up there with duck tape and WD-40 on the hierarchy of necessary tools list.
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll add, I may for an interesting reason, need to run a second run into doors for four conductors.  So that might be kinda stretching my luck with those door boots unless I back down to a 16awg 4-conductor.


So wait a minute, I coulda used astro for my door pulls? I wasted 20 bucks on clear glide? Dammit! 

Interested to know the reason for the extra run? Mids?


----------



## Babs

Locomotive Tech said:


> So wait a minute, I coulda used astro for my door pulls? I wasted 20 bucks on clear glide? Dammit!


Yeah but if you picked up the typical lowes/home depot size of clearglide like I did, you'll never have to buy another bottle again. 
Kinda like an overkill bottle of Militec-1 I bought. I'd have to become an IDPA competitor to use it all up. 



Locomotive Tech said:


> Interested to know the reason for the extra run? Mids?


Dual voice coils.  TM65 mids.


----------



## caraudiopimps

craiggus365 said:


> You should see my basement, MDF dust creates a crust and is nasty when it gets damp.


Imagine that in your lungs...


----------



## caraudiopimps

dgage said:


> All I use is the 3/4" Baltic Birch so I know it is strong but my initial reaction is to double them up or glue the 5/8" to give you a thicker mount because if it vibrates at all, you'll lose efficiency on the subs. Meaning the subs are going to push against the mount and if the pair of subs are able to move the mount at all, they won't have the output of a solid mount. If you don't want to double up the whole thing then maybe double up around the subs, which would also give you more bite if you were to use screws to mount the subs. And I'd use even more bracing in the center to ensure the middle doesn't move at all.
> 
> But looking good...stop moving Babcock slow.


Baltic birch > MDF for sure. I've been blown away by how much easier to work with it is than I though it would be, and how f***ing solid it is. I'll literally never be using MDF again.


----------



## Babs

caraudiopimps said:


> Imagine that in your lungs...



Yep that's some noxious stuff for sure. No more. Especially inside the garage. The difference verses birch is significant. 



caraudiopimps said:


> Baltic birch > MDF for sure. I've been blown away by how much easier to work with it is than I though it would be, and how f***ing solid it is. I'll literally never be using MDF again.



Yep.. The Russian 15 layer crazy-good birch I found is absolutely lovely to work with. The only worries are for small stuff you can get a little tear-out like if you do two holes close together the top layer might bust loose. I did attempt to spray the holes black and have found even with primer, it soaks up paint and looks pretty much like ass. 

I'm just wondering what the heck to do with 2 sheets of MDF I've got on shelf still. Anyone need some simple sealed nice and square sub boxes all flush trimmed and pretty out of 3/4" MDF? 

About the only use I can see for the MDF I have on hand might be when I knock out the amp rack, which I'm rather looking forward to. 




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----------



## caraudiopimps

Babs said:


> Yep that's some noxious stuff for sure. No more. Especially inside the garage. The difference verses birch is significant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.. The Russian 15 layer crazy-good birch I found is absolutely lovely to work with. The only worries are for small stuff you can get a little tear-out like if you do two holes close together the top layer might bust loose. I did attempt to spray the holes black and have found even with primer, it soaks up paint and looks pretty much like ass.
> 
> I'm just wondering what the heck to do with 2 sheets of MDF I've got on shelf still. Anyone need some simple sealed nice and square sub boxes all flush trimmed and pretty out of 3/4" MDF?
> 
> About the only use I can see for the MDF I have on hand might be when I knock out the amp rack, which I'm rather looking forward to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah my first enclosure with the stuff has a nice split where my screw went off axis in the prescribed hole a bit! Some filler fixed that though. High build primer seems to work pretty well, but most paints etc will look pretty awful. 

Great work so far man! You're definitely past the amateur installer phase, I know installers who work professionally who aren't even near your level! Keep it up, subbed for updates!


----------



## Babs

caraudiopimps said:


> Yeah my first enclosure with the stuff has a nice split where my screw went off axis in the prescribed hole a bit! Some filler fixed that though. High build primer seems to work pretty well, but most paints etc will look pretty awful.
> 
> Great work so far man! You're definitely past the amateur installer phase, I know installers who work professionally who aren't even near your level! Keep it up, subbed for updates!



Man nicest thing anyone's said to me in a while for sure. Thanks!

I do point out though a typical pro would have knocked it out in a few days though I bet. 

Might be a good question for some of the pro's how long an IB build like this, new speaker wiring, new door mid install and corner trunk amp rack would take? I'm sure to take about 10 times as long. Haha


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## Babs

Just cleaning up.. In case anyone was ever wondering "hmm should I just cut some MDF door rings? Yeah I'll just spray them with bedliner"...

Here's what your MDF rings will do in one year or not even a year of door exposure.









Literally just could tear them apart. It turns to mush and crap. Just say no. Back up and walk away slowly from that MDF aisle at Home Depot. 


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## lucas569

little bit of duck tape fix that right up LOL


----------



## Babs

lucas569 said:


> little bit of duck tape fix that right up LOL













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## Zippy

Babs said:


> So how about some 1" expanded PVC sheet for the door baffles?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I used the same stuff black color for my trim rings on my door woofers. Routers just like MDF.


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## Babs

Zippy said:


> I used the same stuff black color for my trim rings on my door woofers. Routers just like MDF.



Ah just realized I got the white instead of black. Oh well. I'll be different. Hahaha
Oops.. No actually I did order the black version. Odd. 


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## Babs

Pertinent tech vid for the day.  Just thought I'd share.


----------



## Babs

If they cover midbass duty as nice as they look, and are a good upgrade from the SB17 drivers, I'm in for some fun. 

























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----------



## Babs

One big slab of plastic. Guess I'll be breaking out the router and circle jig.










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## Locomotive Tech

Let me know how the router works out. What thickness is it?


----------



## Babs

Locomotive Tech said:


> Let me know how the router works out. What thickness is it?


I believe it'll route nicely with circle jig and 1/4" up-cut bit.

It's 1" thick.. So I'm sure I'll set the rotary depth adjuster on the plunge base for making numerous passes and whittle away at it. 










Hmm.. I'm going to see if my plunge base attachment fits my little stand-up vac hose. Might be able to get away with it for this since it's big plastic shavings instead of wood/mdf dust. One of these days I'll have a cyclone and shop-vac but for now I'll use what I've got. 










Would probably beat the snot out of making a pass, vacuuming, making another pass, vacuuming. Yeah I'm kinda ashamed I've done that.
But this bad-boy gets my award for *Tool MVP* for this build so far, narrowly beating out the old cordless dewalt drill.

You old veterans are probably yawning with all this 'tool' stuff thinking "Damnit Babs show some build, IB, pillar, deadening wiring progress pics already!" haha.. This whole business of actually being able to do the routing work etc etc is absolutely new and awesome to me.  Plus the kind of stuff I'd longed to see when I was new and thinking "how'd the heck did that Bing guy do that!?!", so I figured I'd include this kind of stuff hopefully to pay it forward.


----------



## cmusic

When you do your own install work, you will enjoy your system better. 

You may have seen this, but on Youtube there is a channel called "Car Audio Fabrication". This guy has many videos showing how to do custom installs, including several on router work. While the tools he uses are slightly too expensive for a DIY'er and he is kind of cheesy acting, his techniques are good and you will get some good ideas on how to properly do custom work in your install. Most of his install work was kept a secret among IASCA and USAC competitors back in the late '80s and '90s.


----------



## Babs

cmusic said:


> When you do your own install work, you will enjoy your system better.
> 
> You may have seen this, but on Youtube there is a channel called "Car Audio Fabrication".


Ooooohhh yeah. I've watched one or two of Mark's vids, over.. And over.  Big props for Mark's extensive work making those at CAF! He's the guy I'd say, who's pushed me off the porch into the tall grass to attempt this stuff. It's one thing to read it. But entirely another to see it.. That's 'real' training.

In that grain, on my above re-baffle project, this is as good as instructional gets I think for circle jig work. Vid playlist


----------



## cmusic

Babs,

A little off topic but I just noticed you are in Asheville, NC. If you follow US 23 north for about 4 hours into Kentucky, you will go right past my house. When I was competing heavy I would go through Asheville several times a year going to shows in the Carolinas. 

I used to know a guy that owned a shop in Asheville that competed in IASCA in about 1997 till about 2000. I forget his name but he had a white mid '90s Pontiac Grand Am with a grey cloth interior with a JBL 12" in an aperiodic enclosure in the trunk. At one time he was working on a Trans Am for a customer where he cut out the whole rear floor in the hatch to build a sub enclosure and amp rack, but the project got derailed due to the customer's divorce.


----------



## Babs

Dunno if that's the guy that runs the ONE single shop in town or not. Garner's Stereo. I'll definitely be showing him this build and demo when I'm done. Been in a couple times for some little stuff.. Nice guy.


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## Babs

A little test fit for screw lengths. Really starting to look like something. Just add carpet and subs. 

Screw list:
(4) 1-1/2"
(2) 3-1/2"
(2) 4"
(6) 3"

















Time for some doggone carpet I think and fit/cut side trunk liner. 


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## bertholomey

That looks amazing! You are really doing a fantastic job with that wall!


----------



## Babs

bertholomey said:


> That looks amazing! You are really doing a fantastic job with that wall!



Thanks brother! It's taking shape. 
This is what I call eye-ballin it..

















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## strong*I*bumpin

Babs said:


> Thanks brother! It's taking shape.
> This is what I call eye-ballin it..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You have committed ,no reversing those cuts bro.


----------



## Babs

strong*I*bumpin said:


> You have committed ,no reversing those cuts bro.



Yep! Point of no return. A couple Sierra Nevada's give courage. When you hear IB though, it's a safe bet you won't go back to a box anyway. 


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## LBaudio

that subwoofer baffle looks like it fits 127%, lol, very precise! did you manage to routher out speaker rings from HDPE board?
...in for more


----------



## ErinH

Great job, my friend!

I must say I'm proud of how far you've come in the past year or so. Your install skills keep getting better and better. The thing I think helps you is your patience and desire to get it right. I'm the total opposite. I rush myself through installs and always have to go back and fix something later. I need to take a note from your book on patience.


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> Great job, my friend!
> 
> I must say I'm proud of how far you've come in the past year or so. Your install skills keep getting better and better. The thing I think helps you is your patience and desire to get it right. I'm the total opposite. I rush myself through installs and always have to go back and fix something later. I need to take a note from your book on patience.



Thanks man!! Yeah it can be extremely frustrating at times but I keep focusing on the end result. Plus the amount of time, literally years, reading and watching and studying really helped I think. When I first began the car as you recall, I barely knew how to swap a head unit and install an amp, so it really drove me to learn I guess. What I do now is a product of years of build threads. I still think as far as fabrication goes, I'm just beginning to crawl. With time and projects and experience maybe. Those pillars are yet to do. 

The big thing is now I have the Tacoma daily driver so the car can sit. That's a huge help. That, I guess, and the fact that I want to do it once well, and enjoy the fruits learning to tune it. It makes me stop and focus on doing it best I can. I say once, yet I've had the car torn down maybe 4 times now? I've lost count.  I guess pushing myself each iteration. 


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## Babs

LBaudio said:


> that subwoofer baffle looks like it fits 127%, lol, very precise! did you manage to routher out speaker rings from HDPE board?
> ...in for more



The rain here subsided so looks like I'm going to attempt the rings today. I like pulling it outside so I can keep the mess out of the garage. Until I can afford some dust collection. 


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## bbfoto

Hey Scott, as everyone has said, all of your work on the install looks fantastic. :thumbsup: and looking forward to seeing more!


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## Babs

Work's staring at me now.










Looking up appropriate cutout for the TM65's now. I believe my other rings were right at 7" OD. Gonna make some chips fly. 


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## Beckerson1

Babs said:


> Work's staring at me now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking up appropriate cutout for the TM65's now. I believe my other rings were right at 7" OD. Gonna make some chips fly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looking good man.


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## strong*I*bumpin

I'll take 2 - 6.75" OD disks,will cut my own ID cutouts ...thank you!


----------



## Babs

Bam!






































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## FunkPnut

Those are awesome! You going to put hurricane or t-nuts in those?

What's your ETA for finishing the IB wall? Pretty close at this point...


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## Babs

FunkPnut said:


> Those are awesome! You going to put hurricane or t-nuts in those?
> 
> What's your ETA for finishing the IB wall? Pretty close at this point...



I was considering EZ-Lok threaded inserts to hold the drivers. Although the hurricane nuts is also an idea. It is rather soft stuff I think. 

I'm paying the price now though for the not-so-perfect holes I did in doors mounting the previous ones. Have no idea what their spacing is or if the four holes are even square. 

Note to self: next build make a template piece out of 1/4" plastic with perfectly align holes in the door metal, then pop in rivnuts and never have to worry with aligning them up ever again. Just go by the template dimensions. 

The kinda stuff you learn I guess. 

K.. On the IB wall, once I get the wire run holes cut into the bottom corners of the front sealing pieces (5-min job), then cut the trunk floor tire cover to fit behind the wall, then it's just carpet on back side and I guess carpet (just to be easy) on front side, and mount it up. Done. 

So, stages are as follows:

IB WALL
1. Trunk "garnish stuff"
2. Cover IB wall
3. Mount it up with subs permanent

DOORS
1. Ring holes to door
2. Ring holes to driver
3. Threaded inserts or T/hurricane nuts
4. Mounted TM65's

PILLARS 
1. Hit both knees and pray. Hard. 
2. Flush rings with LTP
3. Gameplan on placement
4. Mount
5. Fleece
6. Glass
7. Fill
8. Finish

AMP RACK
1. Rivnuts in mounting spots
2. Design
3. Cut wood
4. Wire up
5. Finish off

Power the heck up! Fires aren't allowed. 




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## FunkPnut

Still a lot to do when you list it out like that, lol.

On my extremely unattractive jigsawed HDPE rings, I just drilled a hole and used a quick bit of heat from a heat gun before sinking in a T-nut. I'd probably practice on a scrap piece if you go that way.

Rivnuts FTW.


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## Babs

FunkPnut said:


> Still a lot to do when you list it out like that, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> On my extremely unattractive jigsawed HDPE rings, I just drilled a hole and used a quick bit of heat from a heat gun before sinking in a T-nut. I'd probably practice on a scrap piece if you go that way.


Yeah I know.. How you guys rock a build log with a finished car, in like no time, I do not know. Or you just take a bunch of pics and wait till she's done to post all the goods. Hehe 



FunkPnut said:


> Rivnuts FTW.



I know right! I hunt for opportunities to use the little buggers now. Coolest thing since sliced bread and beer on tap. 


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## Babs

Check this out. Our Ops MGR who's got a shrink tubing printer in his office just dropped these off. Nothing like using company goods for personal stuff. This is way cool!










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## KrautNotRice

Wow that's cool!


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## cmusic

Back when I was competing I did one of my many installs with lettered shrink tubing on all the wires. The shrink tubing was even color coded to the use of wire. It never got me any bonus install points though.


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## Babs

cmusic said:


> Back when I was competing I did one of my many installs with lettered shrink tubing on all the wires. The shrink tubing was even color coded to the use of wire. It never got me any bonus install points though.


Haha.. That's cool.. Yeah I figure if I get it all wired up straight without having something swapped at the amps, that'll be bonus for me.


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## captainobvious

Looks good Scott. I would probably use T nuts on those baffles. No worries about them backing out if you remove speakers occasionally. I like the threaded inserts like the EZ lock stuff better in wood/mdf. It works in plastics too, but not as nice as the T nuts for those larger drivers in my opinion.

Keep on fabbin' !


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## Babs

captainobvious said:


> Looks good Scott. I would probably use T nuts on those baffles. No worries about them backing out if you remove speakers occasionally. I like the threaded inserts like the EZ lock stuff better in wood/mdf. It works in plastics too, but not as nice as the T nuts for those larger drivers in my opinion.
> 
> Keep on fabbin' !


Thanks man! Just taking a mental from fading old-man memory inventory.. I do believe I've got a plethora of size #8 hurricane nuts (PE variety) on hand. Maybe #10's also possibly. Would ya chance it with those? I imagine I could slam some JB Weld in there with them like I did my IB baffle, but knowing not much sticks to this HDPE.


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## crackinhedz

Looking like a beast in progress Scott!

Hoping I'll make it to Jason's next gtg to listen to yours.


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## Babs

crackinhedz said:


> Looking like a beast in progress Scott!
> 
> 
> 
> Hoping I'll make it to Jason's next gtg to listen to yours.



I'm in full on beast mode now. Haha. As much as my slow butt can be. Should be done by then for sure. That's the plan anyway. 


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## Babs

I don't care if it does have 8 holes. It's getting four screws.










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## Beckerson1

All you need IMHO. I'm sure you are but don't forget gasket tape. Especially with those nuts


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## Babs

Beckerson1 said:


> All you need IMHO. I'm sure you are but don't forget gasket tape. Especially with those nuts



I'll probably cut rings of CCF like I did last time. Seemed to work ok. Or mask it off and use butyl rope, though that gets pretty messy and sticky quick. 

As you know Honda did us no favors with that lovely weld line going right through the mount spot. Sure ain't flat. 


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## Babs

So I was all psyched up to finish the wall. Go to Lowes for 1" #10 screws so they'd be flush and I could carpet the back. Damn T-nuts I used were from a parts-express kit. It's #10-32. I got #10-24. 

So I was like 









Then I was like 









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## LBaudio

I put thin self adhesive neoprene stripe under drivers, works like a champ.


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## eddieg

The first time I've seen Kylo Ren figure I had to question why does the dude ware a helmet if he has a normal face?!? 

But I understand your frustration not to mention the time it takes waiting for shipment by AE. 

I feel your pain 

Small tip - Usually if have the option to by an assortment of such particles I would prefer to buy a bigger quantity but to cover more options.


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## Babs

So now I'm looking to get all my wiring ducks in a row. I have a unique challenge for a source input I want to do. On shelf now is:
- Apple AV adapter
- ViewHD HDMI to Optical converter
- MP3Car DCDC USB PS (to power the converter 5vDC)
- HDMI cable
- Toslink cable

Trying to design how I'm going to the harness work for all this mess, and where stuff will reside. My delimna is where I want to put stuff.. 

The AV adapter will obviously be upfront in console for attaching to iPhone source, probably hidden with a lightning extender cable poking out for phone hookup, and Helix remote for source switching and optical master volume. At that point, HDMI output and charge-back input (console lighter port and regular car phone charger). From there, HDMI run to ViewHD box (5vdc) then optical to DSP.

With a short enough HDMI "patch" cable, and long enough toslink, I could use a dual USB 5v lighter adapter for both charge-back and powering the converter, which would be easy install in the console. Both will have accessory power, and hidden. No external 5vPS needed for that, and one less acc turn on lead from DSP. Might be the way to go...

Thinking it through, I'd only have five lines to/from trunk to cabin:
- RCA's from head unit
- 12v Acc from head unit
- Remote from Helix
- Optical to Helix
- Speaker wire from Amps


----------



## eddieg

Take a look here: 

Molex Connectors in the Connectors & Adapters Department at Parts Express | 1564

Can make a big mess much more organized.


----------



## Babs

eddieg said:


> Take a look here:
> 
> Molex Connectors in the Connectors & Adapters Department at Parts Express | 1564
> 
> Can make a big mess much more organized.


Those are slick. Don't think the question will be connections so much in my previous post, but just where I want to put things, mainly the ViewHD HDMI to Optical "audio extractor".. Though I kinda answered my own question by figuring if I power both the AV Adapter iDevice lightning charge-back, and power the ViewHD box (also 5v) from a dual lighter USB charger plug, then I may be good to go with that, so it'd just be optical all the way from console to trunk.

Those molex plugs look like good fodder for pigtails on speaker leads though possibly. They remind me of the *XT60* connectors folks in here have mentioned previously that look pretty solid. Though I've got a good handful of small Anderson 16 and 12 awg Powerpoles in the bin now.


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## eddieg

Just mind not to charge a single device with two parallel power sources because it may drain your car battery. 

It sounds strange but I used to charge my nexus7 with one PSU going to the YOTG power entry and the USB hub was powered from a cigarete port charger.

The first time I didn't realize that the cigarete USB charger never went down when I turned of car power and it took down the car battery dry over night. 

I had to manually take down the power source that did not shut it self down.

I had the same issue in the previous car but as I had a manual switch I did not troubleshoot what was the cause of this wierd behavior - in this car I didn't so I've had to find out why it is caused.

I solved it by replacing my PSU to a Mini-Box USB-DCDC-200 and I see that you have such - it has four parallel power lines - use them. 

Anyway just before you close all hatches in the car - do a sanity check and make sure no device stays powered up after you took the keys out of the switch.

As for the Molex connectors - you can make one wire harness for speakers and one wire harness for power and communication or one for both. 

The XT60 are much more rubust - they are called XT60 according to my understanding as they can support 60 volts - should be an overkill for most car speakers in the cabin area.


----------



## Babs

eddieg said:


> Just mind not to charge a single device with two parallel power sources because it may drain your car battery...


Yep definitely.. The console lighter port is switched 'accessory', so it won't be powering anything if the car is off.



eddieg said:


> The XT60 are much more rubust - they are called XT60 according to my understanding as they can support 60 volts - should be an overkill for most car speakers in the cabin area.


60 amps continuous I believe.. I think they're like Anderson connectors, with their model number referring to their continuous current capability.


----------



## beak81champ

Keep on Rollin' Babs! This is getting more interesting every post!!!


----------



## eddieg

Uh... not quite what happened to me.

In my case both the PSU for the USB hub and the cigarete lighter were connected to accessory, and even though I turned the switch off and took the key out - the cigarrete lighter remained ON! and yes I know this is crazy but as long as I was using two different accessory connected PSU to power up the same device, the USB charger would not go off until I would take it out and put it back in, then it would remain off until next time. 

Once I took both power lines for that device (tablet) to the same PSU both that PSU and the USB charger would go off once I turn the switch off and remove the key. 

It is as if a relay would refuse to go off as power was returning from a different direction - most probably could have solved this with a diode but I prefer the more correct action and that is to use one strogner power source instead of two in order to drive both the USB HUB and the tablet over its YOTG cable.

Then when I take down the DCDC everything connected to it just goes down with it - simple, effective.


----------



## Babs

Hmm. Interesting. It's definitely worth testing. Might be a car-specific thing also, meaning if something is charging the port might be designed to continue to be hot until it's unplugged. In which case, shoo definitely that's a dead battery waiting to happen.

But on this whole HDMI to Optical thing.. That's the thing I really can't wait to hear and tune to, as I tested a good while ago just on wall power for the HDMI box.. It was the absolute best SQ and serious output from the DSP I've heard yet, even with it's flaws of probably just 16bit from the iPhone or whatever processing the phone and/or AV adapter are doing with the signal. The head unit will pretty much be there to turn everything on from the turn-on ACC lead. It's clumsy but oh well. 

If it works reliably, I might even consider a SoundmanCA iPad Mini slider dash kit down the road and just say screw a head unit altogether. Gotta admit, that looks sick!









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## Babs

1inch #10-32 correctly threaded screws showed up and verified. 

Time to carpet cover the baffle and front piece, get the wiring taped down (going to look for a decent tape for that just for making wiring stay put where I place it. Do the hard work.. CCF/MLV in the floor and rear seat area which I'm dreading. Carpet, seats and console back in. Then some finished product pics coming of the IB wall with subs. Whoo hoo!!!

Tire cover trimmed to sit up against the wall..










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## schreibers

Babs said:


> Yep! Point of no return. A couple Sierra Nevada's give courage. When you hear IB though, it's a safe bet you won't go back to a box anyway.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's true on both counts man! Solid install so far. We've lived here for six months and I haven't been to Garner's yet even though the shop is like 2 minutes from our house. Sierra on the other hand...


----------



## Babs

schreibers said:


> That's true on both counts man! Solid install so far. We've lived here for six months and I haven't been to Garner's yet even though the shop is like 2 minutes from our house. Sierra on the other hand...



That's cool. I'm over off of Cane Creek. Yeah the brewery is way fun. Great food. 


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## Timelessr1

Babs said:


> Hmm. Interesting. It's definitely worth testing. Might be a car-specific thing also, meaning if something is charging the port might be designed to continue to be hot until it's unplugged. In which case, shoo definitely that's a dead battery waiting to happen.
> 
> But on this whole HDMI to Optical thing.. That's the thing I really can't wait to hear and tune to, as I tested a good while ago just on wall power for the HDMI box.. It was the absolute best SQ and serious output from the DSP I've heard yet, even with it's flaws of probably just 16bit from the iPhone or whatever processing the phone and/or AV adapter are doing with the signal. The head unit will pretty much be there to turn everything on from the turn-on ACC lead. It's clumsy but oh well.
> 
> If it works reliably, I might even consider a SoundmanCA iPad Mini slider dash kit down the road and just say screw a head unit altogether. Gotta admit, that looks sick!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I went the route of no real head unit 3-4 years ago... Using an iPad mini in a slide out holder. I've been using the pure i20 to optical to my helix and I'll never go back to a regular head unit again! I've got everything I need in the mini.. Nav, MP3, Flac, Internet, videos.. Etc


----------



## Babs

So I've finally switched gears into another part of this build I've been highly procrastinating about. But I owe Don a solid build write up on his tremendously awesome products. The floor of the cabin and rear seat areas are getting THE treatment. Don, your MLV (SoundDeadenerShowdown) is the sweetness I always remember. Now if I can become proficient with it. Once you make that first cut into a pretty roll of MLV, it's not so bad. I'm thinking do the coverage in MLV then I'll have sturdy templates to cut my CCF with that must go under it.









I'm thinking selective wire moving as much I can, pulling harnesses out of their whatchamacallits retaining pins, do the coverage, then fasten the harnesses right back down. 

A little background if you missed it. I'd already CLD'd the floor pretty decently. Then goes CCF to decouple and as much coverage as feasible of MLV. MLV is highly effective as a sound barrier, but it requires damn near 100% coverage. Then she'll be as quiet as Subterfuse's Audi. Hehehe 


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## Babs

So throwing it out to the peanut gallery. Looks like because of the TM65's connect tab locations, conventional quick connects directly to the driver won't do. So how kosher ya think if I solder a pigtail to the speaker tabs directly and use these?








Good or no?

Also thought of the Anderson power pole 15amp plugs since I've got a bin full. Don't have any XT60's on hand. 


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## Babs

So since I'm in "use what you've got" mode, I decided to give the powerpoles a try.
















And did a little carpeting..
























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## KrautNotRice

Nice! Moving on to the carpeting stage... so close to done... lol
The September NCSQ meet has given me some new motivation to get stuff done.
So did those connectors work out then?


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## oabeieo

I got all the SDS in my whip as well. It's the it nice. I didn't like adding the weight but was worth it. In yours did you notice the added weight?


----------



## Babs

KrautNotRice said:


> Nice! Moving on to the carpeting stage... so close to done... lol
> 
> The September NCSQ meet has given me some new motivation to get stuff done.
> 
> So did those connectors work out then?



The Anderson Powerpole connectors appear very solid. Easy to crimp and a nice satisfying snap when you click them together. I suppose they'll let electrons move through them ok, I hope. 

No kidding. I've got bunches to do between now and then. 



oabeieo said:


> I got all the SDS in my whip as well. It's the it nice. I didn't like adding the weight but was worth it. In yours did you notice the added weight?



Don't know. Car hasn't moved yet. Just doing the cabin, so hopefully not too bad. If anything it'll lower the center of gravity hehehe  I've still got to finish that. Got tied up with in law family stuff this weekend. 




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## Rudeboy

Don't know. Car hasn't moved yet. Just doing the cabin, so hopefully not too bad. If anything it'll lower the center of gravity hehehe [/QUOTE]


----------



## Babs

So on talking to Don, the recommendation for full as possible coverage, I should also get under the center console stuff and do that as well with CCF and MLV. Will be much easier said than done. Might be above my pay grade.










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## Rudeboy

In for a penny ...


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## Babs

Rudeboy said:


> In for a penny ...


Hahaha! I found all the floating spare change, as you can imagine.
That mess in the pic though you see there's a weeeeeee bit more than four bolts.  I might be able to at least in some areas slide the layer under the areas where the screws or some harness bundle isn't attached. It's going to be a bear. A big furry one. Trick is avoiding just having a bunch of chopped up pieces in there, but I suspect it'll be kinda unavoidable in that area.. But at least if the sides of the "bump" are nicely covered, should minimize the coverage-loss from the top part.


----------



## Babs

Re-Checking the Plan:

IB WALL
1. Trunk "garnish stuff" *DONE*
2. Cover IB wall *50%.. Gotta do the Front*

DOORS
1. Ring holes to door *DONE*
2. Ring holes to driver *DONE*
3. Threaded inserts or T/hurricane nuts *DONE*
4. Mounted TM65's *DONE*

FLOOR TREATMENT 
1. Clean up / vacuum *DONE*
2. Re-route power run 4awg *DONE*
3. CCF cutouts.. Transfer to MLV cutouts
4. Floor (firewall to rear seat) MLV, glued and velcro'd

IB WALL
3. Mount subs permanent
4. Front 'garnish' stuff 
5. Pics of finished goods; crack cold one and toast 

PILLARS 
1. Flush rings with LTP
2. Establish Placement
3. Decide sealed pod or full pillar
4. Glass work
5. Filler work
6. Finish

AMP RACK
1. Design
2. Cut wood
3. Mounting and fabrication
4. Wiring and placement
5. Finish off

POWER UP CHECK
1. Fires aren't allowed.


----------



## beak81champ

Get to it bro! lmao


----------



## bertholomey

Let me help you out with that....

POWER UP CHECK

1. Fires aren't allowed. 
2. Give Jason an extended demo.


----------



## Babs

bertholomey said:


> Let me help you out with that....
> 
> POWER UP CHECK
> 
> 1. Fires aren't allowed.
> 2. Give Jason an extended demo.



Oh yes. I can hear it now!  Will be a bunch of mic waving and measuring to do for sure. At this rate I'll be lucky if I'm sitting in your parking lot tuning this thing at the meet. LOL!! Lord I hope not. Hahaha

Don, 
Five words.. Silver sharpie for the win! 










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## Babs

I'm having some fun with scissors. 






























CCF going down. Then using these pieces to cut the MLV to go over them. All areas including cross bars under seats and where I can in center console will get it. Quiet is the goal. 



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## Babs

Quick question guys. Is there a favorite tape for taping wires done to keep them still you like? 

I've used plain old masking tape before because it doesn't get too gooey like duct tape, but thought I'd ask. 


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## D34dl1fter

Babs said:


> Quick question guys. Is there a favorite tape for taping wires done to keep them still you like?
> 
> I've used plain old masking tape before because it doesn't get too gooey like duct tape, but thought I'd ask.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gaffers tape ...similar to duct tape

https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Premium-Grade-Gaffer-Power®/dp/B00GZE3UJ8


----------



## Babs

D34dl1fter said:


> Gaffers tape ...similar to duct tape
> 
> /dp/B00GZE3UJ8" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Premium-Grade-Gaffer-Power/dp/B00GZE3UJ8



That'll work! 
Thanks!


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## High Resolution Audio

Dude......your doing an awesome job. Not turtle-like at all. You are making great progress and everything that you have done so far is top notch. Progress is coming along rather nicely. Keep up the great work. Remember not to try and rush things for the fall meet. What gets done by then gets done by then. It's good that you have the meet to light a fire under your ass, but don't stress if the job is not complete by then. However far along you get by September is however far along you get. Enjoy the build process. You are doing so well, that I would let you work on my vehicle if I had one and you were willing.


----------



## Babs

High Resolution Audio said:


> Dude......your doing an awesome job. Not turtle-like at all. You are making great progress and everything that you have done so far is top notch. Progress is coming along rather nicely. Keep up the great work. Remember not to try and rush things for the fall meet. What gets done by then gets done by then. It's good that you have the meet to light a fire under your ass, but don't stress if the job is not complete by then. However far along you get by September is however far along you get. Enjoy the build process. You are doing so well, that I would let you work on my vehicle if I had one and you were willing.



Thanks man! Goal this weekend is to have the carpet and seats back in. Made the joke to someone with the speaker wire upgrades and additions, and finally running the Helix remote, re-routing RCA's and running an optical line, I needed a piece of 3" conduit. Haha. I'll try to do some pics while it's all naked. 

Due to length where I planned to do the amp rack, I ended up having to run my RCA's down through the center rather than down the right side, then paralleling to the power run on the driver side. Hope I'm not planning for noise there. It's shielded twisted pair running to Helix DSP inputs, shield drain grounded at the source side only. 

You'll notice also I re-did the tesa tape in just wraps instead of the spiral around the speaker wire so I could make the three runs flat for placement under carpet. Not much room in door sills at all. Did run the 4awg into the driver side door sill retainer. Worked nice. Pics coming. 




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## Babs

The cross beams will also be covered with MLV glued down. 
































































































































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## Babs

Also.. Gotta little surprise in store on the front end.. The scan-speak mids and tweets I intended for the pillars are sold.  Hmm what might I have up my sleeve? 


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## KrautNotRice

Babs said:


> The scan-speak mids and tweets I intended for the pillars are sold.


Whaaaaat?


----------



## Babs

KrautNotRice said:


> Whaaaaat?




















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## Babs

Ribbit ribbit!


















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## WhereAmEye?

Babs said:


> Ribbit ribbit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


DANGIT I was hoping to compare my audiofrogs to your scanspeaks this coming meet! Now I guess we'll be comparing subs lol.

Congrats though, you won't be disappointed!


----------



## Babs

WhereAmEye? said:


> DANGIT I was hoping to compare my audiofrogs to your scanspeaks this coming meet! Now I guess we'll be comparing subs lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats though, you won't be disappointed!



Yeah their pillar-friendliness was too hard to pass up, after hearing them. I guess we'll be all amphibious. Haha! Will be an interesting apples-apples tune comparison I guess. 


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## KrautNotRice




----------



## Babs

WhereAmEye? said:


> DANGIT I was hoping to compare my audiofrogs to your scanspeaks this coming meet! Now I guess we'll be comparing subs lol.
> 
> Congrats though, you won't be disappointed!


I'll add.. Your frog-pillar install has really set the bar as well, my friend. Looking good! 

It's making me think hmm.. Who the heck says I really gotta stick everything in the little window? Could just treat the big pillar as a pillar and leave the window as is. Lots of options with these little frogs after actually holding them and seeing how petite their footprint is. Given what I know from Erin's trail-blazing (as usual) with his GB25 build, is how well he was able to address side and windshield reflections with his placement (in same car basically). So that tells me, in the winder they shall go, with a good idea on axis angling, and utilizing tucking the drivers back into the area as a tool for acoustics.

The one thing I do want to avoid however, is for them to be too conspicuous.. I'll hope to be as inconspicuous in my particular pillars as possible to minimize as much as I can the visual ques. In short "stealthy and non-attention-drawing" is the goal. May even black out the chrome trim rings.

Given the time constraint though, I'm sure you all will agree.. Just get them rascals in there! So may be simply the shortest route, being the best route. 

Here's are "inset pod" examples of what I'm considering as a top contender:

























... So those would basically treat the pillar window as a mold to glass in a 'cup', then fleece rings, do yer thang, mount, vinyl, boogie.


----------



## lucas569

i like that top pod best myself. wheres the tweeter on that install?


----------



## Babs

lucas569 said:


> i like that top pod best myself. wheres the tweeter on that install?



Yep.. That's an 8th Civic like mine. Same pillars. I forget where that build log is. I thought it was one of Bing's builds. Dunno. ?


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## Babs

Don I'll apologize now for the job I did on this rear seat. 











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## Babs

I've waited long for this!









Yes I cheated and left the crossmembers and console. Was just too crazy and I'm getting impatient. 

Carpet seats and panels going back in. 

Repurposing the padding on the carpet for extra trunk sealing in the wheel wells.










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## optimaprime

Ohhh audio frogs Iam jelly but can't wait to see what you come up with !! 


Yes I said I am jelly I have been drinking &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;


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## optimaprime

Those supposed to be laughing faces .


----------



## strong*I*bumpin

optimaprime said:


> Those supposed to be laughing faces .


Thats how many he had


----------



## Babs

Tomorrow. Unveiling.. Covered the front panels.. This bad boy is going in tomorrow, subs and all.. I hope. 

Had just enough carpet. Like just enough.



















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## Babs

optimaprime said:


> Ohhh audio frogs Iam jelly but can't wait to see what you come up with !!
> 
> 
> Yes I said I am jelly I have been drinking &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;



I'm with ya!










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## Rudeboy

Babs said:


> Don I'll apologize now for the job I did on this rear seat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks perfect to me. Covered is what matters, pretty - not so much. You can blame it on the dogs


----------



## Babs

She's officially in, and solid as a rock. No less than 14 1/4"-20 screws (what was I thinking). Won't be putting in the subs for a while because I've got a little design change going for the amp rack that'll either be very stupid, or brilliant. 

















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## bertholomey

Looks fantastic!!!


----------



## optimaprime

Looks very nice . Makes want a car.


----------



## dgage

Personally Babs, I think it looks awful. Those big, nice holes and you leave them bare. For shame!


----------



## Babs

dgage said:


> Personally Babs, I think it looks awful. Those big, nice holes and you leave them bare. For shame!



Haha. Yeah well I've learned since starting this adventure you should put first things first. Amp rack shoulda been numero uno. I gotta crawl in the trunk a bit and play with amp stuffs. Speaking of, I'm feeling the need to be a copycat again.. Really digging what FunkPnut did in the Accord with the suspended amp rack. 

So I'm thinking if that piece of angle aluminum is strong enough with six 1/4" screws holding it and the baffle to the top lip on the deck, wonder if a couple hinges mounted to that piece might be cool for a flip-down rack holding two PDX's and the Helix DSP? Then rivnuts at the rearmost under deck for holding it. Then for access, just lower it down. Just a thought.


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## carlr

I'm really digging the looks of that, sure it will be fantastic once the subs are in!


----------



## FunkPnut

I've never been this attracted to a baffle before, lol.

Looks stellar.


----------



## captainobvious

Babs said:


> Haha. Yeah well I've learned since starting this adventure you should put first things first. Amp rack shoulda been numero uno. I gotta crawl in the trunk a bit and play with amp stuffs. Speaking of, I'm feeling the need to be a copycat again.. Really digging what FunkPnut did in the Accord with the suspended amp rack.
> 
> So I'm thinking if that piece of angle aluminum is strong enough with six 1/4" screws holding it and the baffle to the top lip on the deck, wonder if a couple hinges mounted to that piece might be cool for a flip-down rack holding two PDX's and the Helix DSP? Then rivnuts at the rearmost under deck for holding it. Then for access, just lower it down. Just a thought.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


If it's beefy angle aluminum- probably fine. Flip down would save space in the trunk and keep it up out of the way until(if) you need to access it. Just allow for enough power/speaker/rca wire clearance for the fold down.


----------



## Babs

Not much of an update but loving this.. Feels like a car again. Just a few more panels.










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## Babs

Did a little sizing up. Busy weekend. Couldn't put much into the car but I'm in drop back and punt mode. Pods are out. Too much bump on driver side dash. Looks like a whole pillar job after all.























Also considering losing the outer flange and going just the back mount ring and flange ring around the grill. Though the back ring isn't much narrower. Googling the crap out of different ways frog drivers are being done with as small as possible a footprint but still using the supplied grill. 

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## oabeieo

Love it buddy! Can't wait to see more.

And above I like the top pic also. 
On my fit I sunk the ring into the panel so it has a dual contour as well. Except I'm using 6.5s , but the idea the same, the panel comes up than gets concave a bit. 

On yours you could easily do that with that small window, unless your going for the super on-axis approach that might make it a bit harder but you should still be able pull it off .

Lookin good tho !


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## Babs

Re-Checking the Plan:

IB WALL
1. Trunk "garnish stuff" *DONE*
2. Cover IB wall *DONE*

DOORS
1. Ring holes to door *DONE*
2. Ring holes to driver *DONE*
3. Threaded inserts or T/hurricane nuts *DONE*
4. Mounted TM65's *DONE*
5. Door cards back on and good to go *DONE*

FLOOR TREATMENT 
1. Clean up / vacuum *DONE*
2. Re-route power run 4awg *DONE*
3. CCF cutouts.. Transfer to MLV cutouts *DONE*
4. Floor (firewall to rear seat) MLV, glued *DONE*
5. Panels, Console and Seats back in *DONE*

IB WALL
3. Mount wall permanent *DONE*
4. Front 'garnish' stuff *After the rest, time permitting*
5. Rear deck back in *After amp rack*
6. Mount subs and bask in their glory *After amp rack*

AMP RACK
1. Design *DONE*
2. Wood cutout
3. Hardware and Rear Deck Rivnuts
4. Wiring and mounting
5. Mount components 

PILLARS 
1. Decide sealed pod or full pillar *DONE.. Whole pillar*
2. Establish Placement and hot glue frog rings
3. Fleece in rings and reinforce
4. Filler and sanding
5. Vinyl covering

POWER UP TEST AND TUNE
1. Fires aren't allowed. 
2. Good sound time


----------



## Babs

Oh and this happened yesterday.. 
Have always wanted to give these a try.










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## Darkrider

Babs said:


> Oh and this happened yesterday..
> Have always wanted to give these a try.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My only concern here is that you're not going to have enough power........:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## ErinH

those look familiar! 

Enjoy 'em. And don't put a scratch on them! lol.


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> those look familiar!
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy 'em. And don't put a scratch on them! lol.



Funny I just thought of that. Remind me later to show you a big ole scratch I found on the bottom of one. Hahahaha! Just to let ya know I didn't do it. 
And thanks again!!!


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## Babs

Darkrider said:


> My only concern here is that you're not going to have enough power........:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:



Yeah I dunno. Might be ok. 
75 to tweets
75 to mids
150 to midbass
Something like 300 for each sub

Yeah I think we're good. 



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## dgage

Have you decided on placement for the full pillars? And if so, how did you decide on the arrangement and aiming? And if not, how do you plan to do that?  My Acura TL isn't too different from yours and I'll be following after you so I'm hoping to get a rough starting point for aiming the GB10/25 set.


----------



## Babs

dgage said:


> Have you decided on placement for the full pillars? And if so, how did you decide on the arrangement and aiming? And if not, how do you plan to do that?  My Acura TL isn't too different from yours and I'll be following after you so I'm hoping to get a rough starting point for aiming the GB10/25 set.


Very good question!

I think I'm about 90% there in my brain anyway.. Plan is:

Mids will be closest to seat near the 'down-turn' at the side windows, except recessed into the window enough to assist with side-window reflectivity. I believe this would be improvement over the "in-your-face" placement I had with my tweeters before. And I believe that also really helped Erin's Civic by having the drivers recessed into window without so much of a clear shot at the side windows.

Tweeter in front of the mid in the leftover horizontal "V" area of the little window. Although, the thought of the tweeter recessed slightly in the pillar material up at about 30-45 degrees (roughly 2 o'clock) from the mid has also crossed my mind.

So if I can recess it in further than this pic, allowing enough space for the tweeter to sing beside this mid, hopefully will boogie nicely.









Axis I'm hoping fairly on or at least at a 30-45 degree "point" with the mids and more on axis 15-30 deg for the tweeters. Driver side being the real challenge of course. I'm typically not a fan of front-stage drivers pointing at each other so I'll try to go as on axis as possible but still be able to recess the mid especially within the little window area. Just on paper with polar response I'd guess that'd be the best practice for response and driver direct vs reflection interaction. So I'll be shooting for axis directivity as much as possible within the constraints of the space given, especially on the driver side which has the constraint of the dash bezel bump.

I did at one time take a liking to builds like this just for aesthetics, but I really want to be less "visual" than this by far. While it is sexy from a fabrication stand-point, it would big-time detract by distracting the listener to be drawn to it. Also a reason for choosing the GB drivers.. Subtle grills. If I could make the drivers simply disappear that'd be great, so minimal as possible.. Balance of axis alignment yet being subtle, is the goal. Also, in this pic, a bit of width by placement is lost.. Going "in" the window verses "in front" I think will help with the mid drivers.









Also my thinking of tweeters inward, mids wide outward.. Opsodis affect for staging.


----------



## Babs

Rediscovered this shot while googling for ideas.. Proves I'll be doing nothing groundbreaking here. Erin was the trailblazer riding the razor's edge on modding the 8th Civic sedan. All credit where it's due. This I think was many many many iterations ago, don't ya think Erin?


----------



## lucas569

Babs said:


> Very good question!
> 
> I think I'm about 90% there in my brain anyway.. Plan is:
> 
> Mids will be closest to seat near the 'down-turn' at the side windows, except recessed into the window enough to assist with side-window reflectivity. I believe this would be improvement over the "in-your-face" placement I had with my tweeters before. And I believe that also really helped Erin's Civic by having the drivers recessed into window without so much of a clear shot at the side windows.
> 
> Tweeter in front of the mid in the leftover horizontal "V" area of the little window. Although, the thought of the tweeter recessed slightly in the pillar material up at about 30-45 degrees (roughly 2 o'clock) from the mid has also crossed my mind.
> 
> So if I can recess it in further than this pic, allowing enough space for the tweeter to sing beside this mid, hopefully will boogie nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Axis I'm hoping fairly on or at least at a 30-45 degree "point" with the mids and more on axis 15-30 deg for the tweeters. Driver side being the real challenge of course. I'm typically not a fan of front-stage drivers pointing at each other so I'll try to go as on axis as possible but still be able to recess the mid especially within the little window area. Just on paper with polar response I'd guess that'd be the best practice for response and driver direct vs reflection interaction. So I'll be shooting for axis directivity as much as possible within the constraints of the space given, especially on the driver side which has the constraint of the dash bezel bump.
> 
> I did at one time take a liking to builds like this just for aesthetics, but I really want to be less "visual" than this by far. While it is sexy from a fabrication stand-point, it would big-time detract by distracting the listener to be drawn to it. Also a reason for choosing the GB drivers.. Subtle grills. If I could make the drivers simply disappear that'd be great, so minimal as possible.. Balance of axis alignment yet being subtle, is the goal. Also, in this pic, a bit of width by placement is lost.. Going "in" the window verses "in front" I think will help with the mid drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also my thinking of tweeters inward, mids wide outward.. Opsodis affect for staging.


i know that pillar pods would transport me to a sonic utopia where I sit on a velvet listening chair and have beer served to me from a platinum tray by a bikini clad supermodel in stiletto heels.

BUT FEW have been pleasing to the eye. Even the nicely built pods.... BUT those you posted in that pic are up there as far as incredible build quality!


----------



## Babs

lucas569 said:


> i know that pillar pods would transport me to a sonic utopia where I sit on a velvet listening chair and have beer served to me from a platinum tray by a bikini clad supermodel in stiletto heels.
> 
> 
> 
> BUT FEW have been pleasing to the eye. Even the nicely built pods.... BUT those you posted in that pic are up there as far as incredible build quality!



You had me at beer from a bikini clad supermodel. LOL 


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## Babs

Update time I guess. Rear deck amp rack time. Wow what a challenge. I got this. It's coming along I think. 
















































































Goal is have this sucker in TODAY, wired up, ready to go. Will have to wait until after the meet to pull it and cover/paint it. Right now it's function over form. 


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## beak81champ

Looking better every time you update! Awesome job bro!


----------



## Babs

And then there are the patch interconnects. Let the crying begin. 










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## Babs

More better.. I'll have a plethora of problems when I fire this beeyatch up, but sloppy wiring I guess won't be one.










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## xOttox

What kind of fitting is that on the wiring? Would love to use those rather than tinning every wire.

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## glockcoma

I would be careful of a possible pinch point on the screw head/hinge on the outer most power wire.



Edit: just noticed how that L bracket is going to mount to the rear support, shouldn't be an issue


----------



## dgage

xOttox said:


> What kind of fitting is that on the wiring? Would love to use those rather than tinning every wire.


It is a ferrule...check FerrulesDirect. You'll also need a ferrule tool.

Which brings me to a question for you Babs, I noticed, at least in the picture that you didn't crimp the ferrule down. What are you doing to hold the ferrule to the wiring?


----------



## Babs

dgage said:


> It is a ferrule...check FerrulesDirect. You'll also need a ferrule tool.
> 
> 
> 
> Which brings me to a question for you Babs, I noticed, at least in the picture that you didn't crimp the ferrule down. What are you doing to hold the ferrule to the wiring?



I was concerned about that as well.. However after clamping one down all concerns went away. They're soft so the set screw puts quite a seriously good crimp on it. 


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----------



## Babs

glockcoma said:


> I would be careful of a possible pinch point on the screw head/hinge on the outer most power wire.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: just noticed how that L bracket is going to mount to the rear support, shouldn't be an issue



Yeah the L-bracket will mount to, and face flat against the IB wall so it will never actually rotate up past parallel with the rack board. 

Biggest challenge will be making sure the wires going to the board (power and ground, RCA's, speaker runs, optical, USB, Helix remote lead) all have adequate slack, strain relief and angling so it can rotate down without issue for service. 

Just crawled out of the trunk from wire-tying all above to the top of the trunk from where they come in at the bottom corners of the IB wall. 


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## dgage

Babs said:


> I was concerned about that as well.. However after clamping one down all concerns went away. They're soft so the set screw puts quite a seriously good crimp on it.


Hmmm...good to know. I like that better than a second ferrule crimper for larger wires.


----------



## Babs

dgage said:


> Hmmm...good to know. I like that better than a second ferrule crimper for larger wires.



Plus the device will also shape the crimp. My distro crimps in the shape of the set screw. The amps crimp straight across so it made the coolest rectangular shaped crimp. So it crimps in custom fashion. Extremely confident these would take a huge amount of pull force to come out. I'm ordering a bunch more just to have on shelf. 


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## chithead

Now that amp rack idea... is just... neato mosquito!!!


----------



## FunkPnut

Wish I would've sprung for some of those ferules. Amp rack is coming along nicely.


----------



## Babs

FunkPnut said:


> Wish I would've sprung for some of those ferules. Amp rack is coming along nicely.


Got them from this company.. Electrical Connectors, Fasteners items in Crimp Supply store on eBay! 
It appears, if you need it, they've probably got it. Disclosure though they actually shorted me, but quickly reshipped the short amount so I'd buy from them again.


----------



## Babs

chithead said:


> Now that amp rack idea... is just... neato mosquito!!!


Thanks! As I told Bing on FB, it'll either be a very brilliant move or terribly stupid. hahaha! Nothing ventured.....


----------



## captainobvious

Yeah I picked up ferrules to cover my wire sizes ranging from 1/0 down to 18awg  They work great. And if they are too long, you can just insert your wire and clip off the end length.


----------



## JSM-FA5

Looks good so far! Hope you've got everything together by the meet, id love to hear the TM-75's again, and also see what the whole IB thing is about


----------



## Babs

JSM-FA5 said:


> Looks good so far! Hope you've got everything together by the meet, id love to hear the TM-75's again, and also see what the whole IB thing is about


You and me both!


----------



## Babs

Few shots from this evenings efforts. Rack is IN. Appears solid enough. YES I will cover it but right now it's about function. Might have to wait until post NCSQ meet for a good and proper carpet job. Right now the challenge is getting all speaker, signal and control wiring hooked up and well secured. Will probably slack the speaker runs so I still have plenty.. Just in case I have to drop back and punt. 

Getting dang nervous now about the deadline for this thing. 

Thing about rear deck installs.. You're fighting gravity everywhere. 

Hot mess...









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## beak81champ

You're doing an awesome job Babs! Keep on rollin'


----------



## Babs

beak81champ said:


> You're doing an awesome job Babs! Keep on rollin'



Thanks man. I'm trudging forward. 


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## glockcoma

Is there anything preventing the amp board from bouncing upward?


----------



## Babs

glockcoma said:


> Is there anything preventing the amp board from bouncing upward?


That is a concern.. I plan to wrap the mounting screws so they're tight going through the board.. I would like to figure out some kind of spacer cut to length so the deck presses the board against the end of the screw. Open for suggestions there.. I was planning a single locking nut against the rivnuts at the top of the screws to keep them fastened. Could be something as simple maybe as a plastic tube of some kind maybe. If these screws were threaded all the way to the head, it'd be easy, just a washer and nut on top of the board as well as the bottom.. May look for some 4-1/2 fully threaded screws.


----------



## ErinH

you could just use a wing nut and a lock washer to hold it in place:


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> you could just use a wing nut and a lock washer to hold it in place:


That's a thought.. While I do like the security and low profile of the single hex head screw, I do have plain 1/4-20 threaded rod pieces that could easily be cut to length, stack up from top down nut, spacers, rack, washer, nut/wingnut.

Looking for any kind of long spacer material now.. Something low profile, just 1/4" ID.


----------



## glockcoma

I used nylon bushings like this as a standoff for mounting my amps. 

I found them at Sears hardware in the bulk drawers.


----------



## EmptyKim

I don't know why I thought of these but maybe the center of cash register tape rolls? Some are plastic and some paper. Like these

2 1/4" x 85' Thermal Cash Register POS Paper Roll Tape - 50/Case

1 23/32" x 150' Traditional Cash Register POS Paper Roll Tape - 100/Case


----------



## nadams5755

Fully threaded rod? Use a nut and washer on top of the board to "jam" it down maybe?


----------



## Timelessr1

Babs said:


> That is a concern.. I plan to wrap the mounting screws so they're tight going through the board.. I would like to figure out some kind of spacer cut to length so the deck presses the board against the end of the screw. Open for suggestions there.. I was planning a single locking nut against the rivnuts at the top of the screws to keep them fastened. Could be something as simple maybe as a plastic tube of some kind maybe. If these screws were threaded all the way to the head, it'd be easy, just a washer and nut on top of the board as well as the bottom.. May look for some 4-1/2 fully threaded screws.


Maybe you can find some blue coated 8ga wire, pull the wire out of the rubber jacket , then slide the jacket over the threaded bolts... Cut to length ... Cheap..functional... And looks good color coordinated ;-)


----------



## Babs

So I stared at it, pondered over it, thought on it and decided on a good course of action after weighing all the things about it I didn't like. 










Scrapped it all! Got other ideas for a better setup. 


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## Timelessr1

A true Diyma route ;-)


----------



## ErinH

Yep. Totally understandable to go a different route. Sometimes you simply have to try something out before realizing it's not the way you want it done. I did that with my kicks.


----------



## cmusic

Babs said:


> So I stared at it, pondered over it, thought on it and decided on a good course of action after weighing all the things about it I didn't like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scrapped it all! Got other ideas for a better setup.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Been there, done that so many times I've lost count. I usually end up just staring at the space where the equipment will go for hours until I get an idea of what I want to do. Then I start on it and usually at about 50-75% finished, I don't like it, rip it out, and start over staring at the same space again.


----------



## Babs

Had a really good msg discussion with Mic last night which was after I decided on this thing. He mentioned look at his "Silverlight" build log. Had IB15's behind a rack false wall setup. That's an idea as well. Vent subs around the amps. Also an option. He said it was easy but we're talking Mic. Haha. 

Erin you might have had pics of that build. Mosconi's in his Lancer at 2012 MECA finals. The pics from the build log don't seem to show up, in tapatalk anyway. 

Been playing in sketchup a bit to picture such a thing..
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwilEarPfKvuTEVyYWpjNWppcEU

Here's a Google search pic I found. 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs

But also. Look at these trunk corner areas in my car. Very inviting.. Deep and spacious. Also cabling can be gaffer-taped down along the trunk corner hidden super duper easy. 



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ErinH

Babs said:


> Erin you might have had pics of that build. Mosconi's in his Lancer at 2012 MECA finals. The pics from the build log don't seem to show up, in tapatalk anyway.
> 
> Here's a Google search pic I found.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LMAO!

That's actually _my _picture!


----------



## ErinH

and yea, those would probably be good locations. I've considered putting mine there a few times but always bailed on the idea for one reason or another. Usually because I didn't want the IB wall and all the weight of amps in the trunk. this time because the amp is too large to put along the side of the car. 

And definitely a plus for the wiring putting the amps there. much easier to run and hide.


----------



## beak81champ

Are you thinking of venting the subs into that area, or just running your cabling into those chasms? Either way, I would think you would want to use that free air space.


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> LMAO!
> 
> That's actually _my _picture!


Yeah he told me to google Meca Finals Helix and that popped up. Said you took that shot. Likely with your previous DSLR you just let go of. haha!


----------



## Babs

beak81champ said:


> Are you thinking of venting the subs into that area, or just running your cabling into those chasms? Either way, I would think you would want to use that free air space.


No thinking about those corner spots for the amps and DSP (I'll call the "Corners" option). Subs would just fire away into the trunk. Getting cabling to them in the corners would be such a breeze.

If I put amps in front of the subs like in Mic's Lancer, which I'll call the "False Wall" option (which I suppose is proper), sub energy would be vented around/through the wall. I guess if you think of it, the space is going to be taken up in a corner or somewhere, so if it's kinda in front of the subs, no big whoop so long as the subs still see the whole trunk volume. Six in one hand, half dozen in the other.


----------



## oabeieo

babs, dood a complete redesign sometimes is needed. Heck I feel ya tho. Mine is so much different from when I first was planning and still changing weekly. 


Lookin good tho. Have you thought about sticking anything under the front seats at all. Can't remember what kind of room the civ has under there.


----------



## Babs

oabeieo said:


> babs, dood a complete redesign sometimes is needed. Heck I feel ya tho. Mine is so much different from when I first was planning and still changing weekly.
> 
> 
> Lookin good tho. Have you thought about sticking anything under the front seats at all. Can't remember what kind of room the civ has under there.



Thanks. On seats, been there done it.. That was the last build which I scrapped because it was so sloppy and there's very little room under the Si seats, especially with the cross beams as well. Trunk is definitely the place to be. 



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## Babs

https://www.facebook.com/PastorSundayAdelaja/videos/10153785097358845/


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## optimaprime

Well can't wait to see what's next man!!!


----------



## Babs

optimaprime said:


> Well can't wait to see what's next man!!!



Same here! LOL


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## optimaprime

Did you sale those alpine amps ?? Or Iam way behind


----------



## Babs

optimaprime said:


> Did you sale those alpine amps ?? Or Iam way behind



Still have the PDX's. 
Sitting right on the shelf. 
If you need 'em hit me up. 
Just haven't taken the time to list them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs

Wow what an afternoon. None other than Mr Mic Wallace dropped by and really paid it forward teaching and doing and making me get after it with fiberglassing technique. Cannot say thank you enough Sir. So we got rings placed, fleeced with spandex and a layer of mat down. A very first time messing with glass and resin for me. It'll be a challenge to be sure, grinding, a little redo on one pillar and moving onward, but all in all its turning out great. Angle placement will be killer and the finished good I'm confident will be awesome.



























































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## mitchyz250f

Babs I think the way your building the pods is exactly right. I don't understand why people don't think about defraction/reflection when placing speakers in a location like that.

Great thread btw.


----------



## ErinH

mitchyz250f said:


> Babs I think the way your building the pods is exactly right. *I don't understand why people don't think about defraction/reflection when placing speakers in a location like that.*


I am not sure why you would automatically assume others don't considers those effects. :shrug: 
I don't want to veer OT in my friend's thread (and I do mean friend... the dude is using my amps, I can't say I'd do that for many other people, lol) but I think with the quote above you are oversimplifying and drawing a generic conclusion about installs. 

I can't speak for everyone with pillar installs like this but I know I did consider it. I've built numerous variations of pillar installs over the years and they all had different impacts. I absolutely considered the effect in my car... that's exactly why I rebuilt them numerous times (and did driver swapping to allow me to try different things). Ultimately I chose a very unorthodox install that worked much better to achieve the specific set of results I was looking for. 

I do agree what Scott is building certainly looks promising but I can speak from experience here that there is going to be tradeoffs. There's no perfect install for any car unfortunately. But this one will certainly have a great starting point and the potential to sound _really_ good.


----------



## ErinH

Scott, three things:
1) Congrats on getting your feet wet! I know this was a hurdle you were a bit nervous about. Now that you've made the jump, you'll find it easier and easier to continue working with this stuff. I've made many a horrible install with glass so don't worry about it not being perfect your first few tries.
2) Where is the tweeter going to go? 
3) Knowing this car, how much space is there from the magnet to the rear window? The angle of the mounting ring, it looks like it would almost not be enough room.


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> Scott, three things:
> 1) Congrats on getting your feet wet! I know this was a hurdle you were a bit nervous about. Now that you've made the jump, you'll find it easier and easier to continue working with this stuff. I've made many a horrible install with glass so don't worry about it not being perfect your first few tries.
> 2) Where is the tweeter going to go?
> 3) Knowing this car, how much space is there from the magnet to the rear window? The angle of the mounting ring, it looks like it would almost not be enough room.



1. Thanks. Yes I'm glad to finally get this particular skill under my belt. 
2. Very good catch.. It will be cut in going in front towards the V and angled accordingly.. Probably very similar to the mid which is about 45deg. 
3. Yep, she fits. We tested fitment in car with good magnet depth. It's pretty close. As you and I discussed, that driver-side dash bump is a royal PITA. 


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## ErinH

Ok. I'm curious how the tweeter will fit. I haven't messed with the gb10 but I do know that even using the little Dayton tweeter I had, there wasn't a lot of room to work with.


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> Ok. I'm curious how the tweeter will fit. I haven't messed with the gb10 but I do know that even using the little Dayton tweeter I had, there wasn't a lot of room to work with.



On mock-up the tweeter will go kind of on the same plane as the mid in front of the mid. Basically cut in a hole and place it, glue down the ring and build around it with a little chop, or duraglas so it's good and stuck. Then the GB10 is a press fit into the metal ring. It'll definitely require some build out filler and shape work. 


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## ErinH

I got you now. I misunderstood. Thought you were cramming the tweeter above the mid in that pocket section and was tryin to figure out how you were gonna do that.


----------



## Mic10is

Design concept is solid. It will work........ Whenever it's done?


----------



## Babs

Mic10is said:


> Design concept is solid. It will work........ Whenever it's done?



Ok breaks over. Going to the basement.  

That small 2nd batch never fully kicked. Added a few drops of MEKP and watched it. Finally cured into a chip-brushcicle. 


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## Babs

'Bout time I did a Chad shot









Yes Mic.. This lady's wearing a mask. 


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## oabeieo

Dang buddy pillars lookin awesome!

I really like the placement. Should work well and look good too! (As others have said just reiterate) 

Can't wait to see more


----------



## Babs

It's been quite a weekend for my first set of sure enough pillars. Yet another first for me. 

Resincicle:


















A little repair redo. Fleece line needed to be recessed a bit passenger side..









Dog barrier.. What a pain. 
























This is going to be an extremely tight fit. 
























Had to shave down the mid ring (metal Audiofrog ring), as you can see the dash is a real beast.. Bumps up in the way. 

So there's tweeter placement in the frog ring, filling it in and finishing. 

Ok the time is now 0-beer-30 and cleanup to do. 


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## BigAl205

Those are looking great, Scott


...Great Scott!


----------



## Orion525iT

Maybe I missed it, but what is the volume behind those drivers? Or are you essentially running them IB into the pillar trim itself? 

Looks amazing! I am jealous of those who have cars with those little sail windows.


----------



## Babs

Orion525iT said:


> Maybe I missed it, but what is the volume behind those drivers? Or are you essentially running them IB into the pillar trim itself?
> 
> 
> 
> Looks amazing! I am jealous of those who have cars with those little sail windows.



Ah.. Well the GB25 doesn't require much space at all, however these will actually also vent on the bottom plate so essentially a pseudo free air setup. 

I tell ya.. The little window area for this is a blessing and a curse. In a straight pillar your choice is pretty much made. I think the main thing you can hope for is a well sloped windshield. But with this car, no sails to play with. You get to work with a not-so-big triangle and that's it. 

It's been a long time coming. Been watching Erin's car year after year while I sat in the dugout dreaming of doing this. Owned this car since 2008. Cannot wait to fire it up. 


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## Elgrosso

Pretty nice, cool to be able to use all the mounting stuff.
You’ll use the cosmetic rings for both or just wrap with tissue for full stealth?

(About volume, I remember mine really appreciated their enclosures with big power)


----------



## Babs

Elgrosso said:


> Pretty nice, cool to be able to use all the mounting stuff.
> 
> You’ll use the cosmetic rings for both or just wrap with tissue for full stealth?
> 
> 
> 
> (About volume, I remember mine really appreciated their enclosures with big power)



The black back ring is used and glassed in solid with a 1/4" MDF backer ring. We opted to go without the big flange ring unfortunately space wouldn't allow. That would have been way too easy but alas no. So the black sheet metal ring is used. We notched in the MDF backer ring so the chrome grill ring tabs can go in. My mission will be to fill in such a way that ring is flush to surface. I may paint it black. Then the frog grill. Same for tweet. Will fasten it in with duraglas. 

It's definitely turning into an interesting build. Or more like a major nightmare. Hahaha. We shall see. 


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## Elgrosso

Ok, so you'll glass the tweeter ring flush into this too?
yes seems a not so easy job to get it clean, but it could be pretty nice.
And with the best width possible!


----------



## Babs

Elgrosso said:


> Ok, so you'll glass the tweeter ring flush into this too?
> 
> yes seems a not so easy job to get it clean, but it could be pretty nice.
> 
> And with the best width possible!



Definitely a challenge I agree. 


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## LBaudio

One nice a-pillars in making,.....Im sure that they will look nice when finished,....and dont forget - filler is your best friend, lol. It will help to integrate tweeter easy, just make nice smooth transition from pillar to tweet and you are good.....
It is nice to see how you progress from week to week with new knowledge and skills....!!!


----------



## naiku

The install is looking really neat, hopefully I can hear it again in the spring.



Babs said:


> 'Bout time I did a Chad shot
> 
> Yes Mic.. This lady's wearing a mask.


Haha I have a picture just like this of the first time I was working with fiberglass as well. I think it is a requirement.


----------



## Babs

LBaudio said:


> One nice a-pillars in making,.....Im sure that they will look nice when finished,....and dont forget - filler is your best friend, lol. It will help to integrate tweeter easy, just make nice smooth transition from pillar to tweet and you are good.....
> It is nice to see how you progress from week to week with new knowledge and skills....!!!


Thanks and most definitely I'm looking forward to filler phase. I just hope my Evercoat Rage Gold can is still ok.. Not sure how well that stuff holds up on shelf.


----------



## FunkPnut

looking awesome!


----------



## Babs

Don't show it but much grinding and sanding more to make the pillars fit again. Had to clearance the back side a BUNCH. So getting ducks in a row for tweeter placement to cut em in. I'd say this will be kickin. Just taking too damn long. I want to keep grinding but kids in bed and neighbors ya know.
















I'm getting used to fiberglass itch. That's bad. LOL!! 

Got an idea for following the pillar line on down and around the tweeter. Cannot wait. This is gonna be so dang cool. I hope. Will have to cut into the areas above the tweets to allow clearance and of course for the actual tweets to sit into the plane of the glass. 


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----------



## Guest

Looking GREAT sir !!!!

Fantastic to have that space available to tuck those speakers in.....

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Babs

SQ_TSX said:


> Looking GREAT sir !!!!
> 
> Fantastic to have that space available to tuck those speakers in.....
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



Thanks! Yeah I'd say about as wide as you could get and not have a direct shot at each side to the side windows. I suspect and hope it'll present a really nice stage. Plus a departure from my previous 2-way in that the mids are a fair bit off axis. At a planned 3100-3500 LPF on the mids I'll check as it's been a while since I looked, but I think their polar response should be good to go. I'm sure you guys could predict much better than I how this may turn out. 

Funny I'll be testing tweeter angle and contemplating mid performance, when not so long ago I was contemplating this and just wishing I could get them in there in any angle, shape, form or fashion. Which would have still pretty pretty neat I think.









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----------



## Mic10is

Babs said:


> Thanks! Yeah I'd say about as wide as you could get and not have a direct shot at each side to the side windows. I suspect and hope it'll present a really nice stage. Plus a departure from my previous 2-way in that the mids are a fair bit off axis. At a planned 3100-3500 LPF on the mids I'll check as it's been a while since I looked, but I think their polar response should be good to go. I'm sure you guys could predict much better than I how this may turn out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, I predicted when I aimed the speakers before gluing the baffles. It will stage really well


----------



## Babs

Mic10is said:


> Yep, I predicted when I aimed the speakers before gluing the baffles. It will stage really well


 Yep.. I'll definitely point out, I had some serious experience and accomplishment sitting in my old civic aiming these speaks. That was extremely cool. We eye-balled them for matching angles in car, and when I checked the next day pillars next to each other, I don't think they could be any closer with a pair of calipers and and an MIT grad. That's some good eye-ballin'. Mic's done it before I think, maybe a few times. 

Wasn't just a fiberglassing 101 lesson.. On that.. Who here can say they learned to layup mat first time in the dark with a puny outside garage light, and drop cord work light. I was a mess.. I had touched resin somewhere with my non-brushing hand so I'd accumulate more sticking to me every time I picked up a piece to add, lay it down and have half of it stuck to my glove. Mic had the patience of Job. Definitely paying it forward.


----------



## Babs

As of 11:30 last night. 
Tweets fit, pillars fit. 
Now get to play with adult play-dough. 
Gonna be a fun weekend. 



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## beak81champ

Too cool for school, Babs!!


----------



## cmusic

Looking great!!


----------



## lucas569

looks good, make 2 so i can buy 2nd set


----------



## Babs

lucas569 said:


> looks good, make 2 so i can buy 2nd set














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## beak81champ

WOW!


----------



## Babs

beak81champ said:


> WOW!



Sitting on the shelf waiting for an 8th civic sedan owner to buy em so they'll have tunes literally in 10 minutes. Just pop some NVX XSPTW (SB29) tweeters in and go. 


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----------



## ErinH




----------



## Babs

I knew there was a reason I kept this. Amp rack pretty much done. One less thing. 

















First round earlier. Sanded and second coat of rage gold on!


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## Babs

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## Zippy

Keep knocking it out. It's coming right along.


----------



## beak81champ

Is Rage Gold all the rage, and as easy to sand as everyone claims?


----------



## Babs

beak81champ said:


> Is Rage Gold all the rage, and as easy to sand as everyone claims?



I dunno. It's all I've worked with besides duraglas today. It goes on smooth until it kicks of course. Sands decent. Except I've worn out my little wheel. Tried another one I had. It couldn't go the distance.. 










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## Babs

Where did the day go? Sheesh!

Finally this is a sight I've longed to see..









And I tell ya, installing drivers with this size motor upright is a beeyatch. 

Yeah I've got some dressing up to do but I'll take it. 


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## glockcoma

Looks good. Let's get some power on those babies.


----------



## Babs

glockcoma said:


> Looks good. Let's get some power on those babies.



Hold on. Can't see through my tears just yet. LOL!!


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## Babs

Nice ... magnets. 










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## Elgrosso

Awesome! :drummer:


----------



## DavidRam

Babs said:


> Nice ... magnets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


NICE!


----------



## Babs

To think.. 
I coulda just ordered these off the guy over in Germany who's doing GB10/25 'pods'. 








Slap 'em in.. Done!


----------



## beak81champ

Those subs are beeyouuuuteeefoooool!


----------



## Mic10is

Babs said:


> To think..
> I coulda just ordered these off the guy over in Germany who's doing GB10/25 'pods'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slap 'em in.. Done!


----------



## strong*I*bumpin

Thats looks awesome so far


----------



## Zippy

Babs said:


> Slap 'em in.. Done!


Why would you want audio zit's for your A-pillars?

Besides, do you really think your A-pillar plastic will support that much metal and speaker with such a small mount point? One accidental bump and you need new A-pillars. I can hear the snap now. What you are doing is soooooo much better.


----------



## Babs

Mic10is said:


>





Zippy said:


> Why would you want audio zit's for your A-pillars?
> 
> Besides, do you really think your A-pillar plastic will support that much metal and speaker with such a small mount point? One accidental bump and you need new A-pillars. I can hear the snap now. What you are doing is soooooo much better.


Haha.. How'd you put it once Mic? "Looks like hemorrhoids". LOL!

Yeah I'm just sanded out, and gotta spot that no amount of CA glue will keep it attached I think I'll just have to sand down and fill over it best I can. Wish you could just slather on a bunch and do it in one shot but from memory you can't go too thick at one time, or problems. Also, the front tip of the pillars (basically just a point) bends a lot, so keeping the glassing edge attached has become a bit of a challenge.

Just envisioning it though, I think they're going to look pretty darn slick I hope, and hopefully sound even better.
Before the filler fun started, with frog tweet ring mounted and "fleeced":









Also had a little fun with a scroll saw blade without the saw by hand shaving out the slots for the chrome grill trim pieces.. We didn't hit it too well aligning up the metal plate to the 1/4" MDF baffle behind it. But got them in and test fitting looks really sharp.

Probably picked the darn hardest pillar there is for a first time. haha!


----------



## Babs

Stupid question for you guys who've done it.. I've seen guys staple the fleece down. Would you use a regular staple gun for something like that? 

Seems kinda risky with possibility of cracking the plastic for something like that but I guess with small enough staples maybe no biggie. 

Just curious.


----------



## cmusic

Babs said:


> Stupid question for you guys who've done it.. I've seen guys staple the fleece down. Would you use a regular staple gun for something like that?
> 
> Seems kinda risky with possibility of cracking the plastic for something like that but I guess with small enough staples maybe no biggie.
> 
> Just curious.


I've used an electric staple gun on plastic A-pillars before. Just make sure you put a piece of scrap wood thicker than the staple behind the plastic to give it some support and the staples will go in pretty easy. Just remove the wood behind the plastic when done.


----------



## ErinH

This might be interesting to try for what you're doing. Guys typically use it for building custom dash bezels and whatnot but it might do well to hold fabric in place. 
https://www.amazon.com/Dent-Fix-DF-400BR-Stapler-Plastic/dp/B009RXX7Y2


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> This might be interesting to try for what you're doing. Guys typically use it for building custom dash bezels and whatnot but it might do well to hold fabric in place.
> https://www.amazon.com/Dent-Fix-DF-400BR-Stapler-Plastic/dp/B009RXX7Y2



Interesting. 


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----------



## ErinH

Yea, Steve Cook bought one for his shop a couple years ago and showed me how it works in person. It was awesome. He stapled two pieces of plastic together and said it makes building plastic pieces so much easier because then all you do is add the appropriate filler. No more waiting for the plastic to bond before you can go to work on it. I imagine for guys like him (shop owners) it makes life much easier.


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> Yea, Steve Cook bought one for his shop a couple years ago and showed me how it works in person. It was awesome. He stapled two pieces of plastic together and said it makes building plastic pieces so much easier because then all you do is add the appropriate filler. No more waiting for the plastic to bond before you can go to work on it. I imagine for guys like him (shop owners) it makes life much easier.


Hold up... So you could effectively cut some super clean ABS rings and literally weld them to the pillars and just fill/finish as you like. Very doggone cool.
The guy in the video quotes $500 for it, and your amazon link is $145.. How I love the free market and street pricing.


----------



## Babs

Amp rack 2016-revB ready to go in I think.









OCD much? 


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## glockcoma

Where's it going? Spare tire area?


----------



## mitchyz250f

If I am understanding your question I have used staples for fleece when dealing with larger speakers. For smaller speakers I use something something thinner than fleece and crazy glue it. You can add watery type crazy glue on top of the thin materials because it will soak through, spray it with glue accelerator and then press down hard with aluminum foil. The crazy glue will not stick to the aluminum foil. Five secs later the glue is hard. Repeat as needed.

Or you can you use thicker crazy glue directly on the piece to be bonded, place the cloth on top, spray with accelerator, press down with aluminum foil, hold 5 secs and done.


----------



## ErinH

that aluminum foil tip is a good one! thanks for sharing that.


----------



## Babs

glockcoma said:


> Where's it going? Spare tire area?



Yep. Will sit on a mounted board that's attached by two floor rivnuts and the big bolt for the spare. Solid. Only real challenge will be getting some shorter RCA runs to it without dimples in the trunk liner. If that's the only problem I'll gladly take it. 


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## Babs

Yeah no kidding that's a good tip I wish I'd known earlier. 


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## Black Rain

The amp rack is coming out pretty good. Sometimes OCD is a good thing, shows your attention to detail and makes your presentation more appealing.


----------



## knifedag007

Good to see another 8th Gen Build.
I hope to try my hand at some A-pillar speaker pods soon in mine. The sedans have so much more room up there in the corners than the coupes.
I need to post some of the progress of mine, my build thread on here is so ancient and never got updated. I have changed set ups 3 times since my initial post.

Keep up the good work.


----------



## FunkPnut

Excellent job wiring!


----------



## Babs

FunkPnut said:


> Excellent job wiring!


Thanks man.. I had to abandon the rear deck idea. The deck "rack" itself turned out fine, but was just too much thought in my mind of it bouncing around since it was suspended rather than hard-mounted to the deck, and the hassle of fighting gravity with wiring, etc. So I went path of least resistance, since I usually manage to make every job more difficult than it should be.


----------



## Babs

So close yet so far. 










Frogs will NOT take 14 awg. 
Break out the solder gun I guess and do pigtails. Yay. 

















So since I'm doing this leaning into the car it's slow damn going. Whole night wasted. 
Yes it's a totally unfinished pillar just rough sanded in the car. I was making a last stab at getting it functionally playing for the meet. 
Crap like this connector business though.. Gotta love car audio.
Could have done some crimp quick connects but the ones I have on hand, just yuck.

And I'm gonna rant a bit.. The Radio Shack "Helping Hands" contraption.. Did they really need a gazillion pounds of pressure on those alligators (with teeth)? Those things literally will cut through wire insulation. Tried taping them, but the teeth cut through the tape, then damaged the insulation. Yes I was saying some colorful expletives after getting one done then snipping it off because the gator damaged the insulator. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## glockcoma

I've found the same problem with the alligator clips. An easy solution is to take a popsicle stick cut them to the appropriate length of the alligator clip and let the teeth dig into the wood that way it'll stay in place and you'll have a smooth surface to hold the wire.


----------



## Babs

glockcoma said:


> I've found the same problem with the alligator clips. An easy solution is to take a popsicle stick cut them to the appropriate length of the alligator clip and let the teeth dig into the wood that way it'll stay in place and you'll have a smooth surface to hold the wire.



Yeah I ended up sandwiching cardboard in there and holding the wire between it but that sounds like a better solution. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## knifedag007

Babs said:


> Yeah I ended up sandwiching cardboard in there and holding the wire between it but that sounds like a better solution.


I've had the same exact issue. I'll have to try the Popsicle sticks.


----------



## Truthunter

How about applying a couple layers of heat shrink tubing over the teeth...


----------



## brewermoe

Babs said:


> So close yet so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice build!
> 
> What did you put behind this? (to cover window) I am guessing the from the window side it just looks "blacked out" ?


----------



## Babs

brewermoe said:


> Babs said:
> 
> 
> 
> So close yet so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice build!
> 
> 
> 
> What did you put behind this? (to cover window) I am guessing the from the window side it just looks "blacked out" ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some 1/8" CCF I had left over worked nice. May use something different for the end product.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## optimaprime

Those pillars not covered look great !! Can't wait to see what's next for them


----------



## Babs

Getting there. 


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## naiku

Those are going to look awesome.


----------



## Elgrosso

Smooth, and reveals the tweeter placement, same plan just slightly angled, nice.


----------



## Babs

Thanks. This was before the finishing work. I think it's going to sound pretty good. 










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## carlr

That stage man!


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## brewermoe

It's pretty tough getting the symmetry, looks great! 

I was thinking that area was covering the little window ... lol ..


----------



## FunkPnut

SOOO CLOOOOOSSSSEEEE!!!!


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## slain93gsr

cant wait to see those pillars finished...


----------



## Babs

Me too. That's coming but it was time for vindication...

At the meet they only had a coat or two and just a rough sand. Spent pretty much last weekend putting on several coats, shaping and smoothing, to get them to that point for primer in the above pics. 

I needed some gratification bad, so I got the pillars in primer and in the car. 

Powered up without issue first time last night late and got a rough-by-ear TA and leveling set just to hear what I was working with. 

Without a drop of any EQ I was shocked. I think I teared up. LOL. Dang this has got some serious potential. Really nice!

Those subs!! Wow.. Chad and Erin call it "skin affect". Oh yeah I've got it. The bass accuracy which sounds effortless is tremendous. Just did a very quick phasing up on the subs with a polarity flip method, extending delays out to meet the subs. The sub foundation is going to be outrageous.. What blew me away was how effortless it sounded. Each SBP12 is getting sub channel from the 1000/5's. IB FTW!

Midbass is really good with output but I'm thinking I'm going series wired 8ohm bridged at the amp. Should be better I bet. But I believe these TM's are going to really put a rock solid mid bass on the stage. 

The stage and tonality up top from 300 up. Oh yeah. Struck me as wider than the placement and gained depth. I'm gonna really love dialing it in. 

These Audiofrogs.. best car audio decision I've made yet I think along with doing the work on the IB wall. 

So that's the update for now. I have a flock kit coming, so it'll depend on how the color looks. Alternatively I'm not afraid to do a SEM texture and color coat if I can get a pillar over to a local shop and get a color match. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## captainobvious

Babs said:


> Me too. That's coming but it was time for vindication...
> 
> At the meet they only had a coat or two and just a rough sand. Spent pretty much last weekend putting on several coats, shaping and smoothing, to get them to that point for primer in the above pics.
> 
> I needed some gratification bad, so I got the pillars in primer and in the car.
> 
> Powered up without issue first time last night late and got a rough-by-ear TA and leveling set just to hear what I was working with.
> 
> Without a drop of any EQ I was shocked. I think I teared up. LOL. Dang this has got some serious potential. Really nice!
> 
> Those subs!! Wow.. Chad and Erin call it "skin affect". Oh yeah I've got it. The bass accuracy which sounds effortless is tremendous. Just did a very quick phasing up on the subs with a polarity flip method, extending delays out to meet the subs. The sub foundation is going to be outrageous.. What blew me away was how effortless it sounded. Each SBP12 is getting sub channel from the 1000/5's. IB FTW!
> 
> Midbass is really good with output but I'm thinking I'm going series wired 8ohm bridged at the amp. Should be better I bet. But I believe these TM's are going to really put a rock solid mid bass on the stage.
> 
> The stage and tonality up top from 300 up. Oh yeah. Struck me as wider than the placement and gained depth. I'm gonna really love dialing it in.
> 
> These Audiofrogs.. best car audio decision I've made yet I think along with doing the work on the IB wall.
> 
> So that's the update for now. I have a flock kit coming, so it'll depend on how the color looks. Alternatively I'm not afraid to do a SEM texture and color coat if I can get a pillar over to a local shop and get a color match.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Nice job Scott. If you decide to do paint or SEM/texture, get those things perfectly smooth or you *will* see imperfections. I recommend doing several thick coats of Evercoat Slicksand on them and then smoothing out with 120 and 220 grit. You've gotten them this far- go that extra mile to make them look perfect  It will bother you later if you don't but then they'll be in and playing and you'll say "good enough"
Trust me... lol


Really great work thus far. Looking forward to hearing it when it's all done.


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## Babs

captainobvious said:


> Nice job Scott. If you decide to do paint or SEM/texture, get those things perfectly smooth or you *will* see imperfections. I recommend doing several thick coats of Evercoat Slicksand on them and then smoothing out with 120 and 220 grit. You've gotten them this far- go that extra mile to make them look perfect  It will bother you later if you don't but then they'll be in and playing and you'll say "good enough"
> Trust me... lol
> 
> 
> Really great work thus far. Looking forward to hearing it when it's all done.



Yeah that's a fact. I ordered some USC "Icing" for the pits and small stuff. 










Also I'm using SEM High-Build Primer. In the pics above, that was after 2nd coat. Also I notice some stuff I want to fix in terms of shape.. One is a bad line caused by the glassing in the very front top of driver side (curve on the front side of the tweeter that doesn't follow the pillar's line). Also I need to undo a bit of the bulbous front side of the passenger tweeter. Little stuff that's not so easily seen until you get that primer coat on.

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## AccordUno

Looking good man. Nice to see DIY'ers stepping up. It does help to have great support system, like Andy..


----------



## Babs

AccordUno said:


> Looking good man. Nice to see DIY'ers stepping up. It does help to have great support system, like Andy..


True that.. Andy is a phenomenal resource and those GB drivers are definitely something special. After some tuning, I'll try to do a good and proper layman's review.


----------



## j4gates

I admire your tenacity. I agree with the others in saying the patience will pay off in the long run. Such a tough thing to do in reality, though. Lol

Great choices for equipment to compliment the fine fabrication skills. Would love to here it sometime.


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## Babs

j4gates said:


> I admire your tenacity. I agree with the others in saying the patience will pay off in the long run. Such a tough thing to do in reality, though. Lol
> 
> Great choices for equipment to compliment the fine fabrication skills. Would love to here it sometime.



Thanks! I guess I had committed to this iteration and had to follow through. Intended on it taking oh 3-6 weeks of evenings and weekends when I could put the time into it.. LMAO! Yeah right. That was May I think... Yep post #1 here was May 5th.. and I'm just now getting sound and fab work yet to finish. Hopefully I climbed a good amount up the learning curve though, so next time I bite off an install list this size it won't be a theater of learning throughout and I can just dig in. 


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## Babs

While waiting for stuff in the mail, the "real" fun has begun. Booyah!

Raw individual drivers no EQ..








(Yes I was being a basshead) 

Some predicted corrections going the strict 31-band route..









Starting to sound like something. 



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## Arete

Babs said:


> Thanks. This was before the finishing work. I think it's going to sound pretty good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks great! I look forward to the review of your new setup. :laugh: I'm seriously considering those mids for my setup.


----------



## Babs

Arete said:


> Looks great! I look forward to the review of your new setup. :laugh: I'm seriously considering those mids for my setup.


If Andy's reading this? Good!  I'll spill it for ya...

Just brief initial thoughts:

The GB10/25 combo is IMHO darn good. I've just started the tuning process a bit and really putting the cart in front of the horse, but just from initial listening, the detail is really nice, and I think the two drivers blend really well. Some folks have used the term "air" and I'd agree.. Natural but detailed.. I'd guess the technical explanation for that may be attributed to good distortion characteristics. Linearity I found also surprisingly symmetrical between sides which I think has a ton to do with their locations.. But, the locations were feasible mainly due to the petite size of these drivers. 

So on the GB25 driver alone, I think you would be hard pressed to find as much value in another like-sized driver. The GB25 from all I've read is purpose-built for strong midrange, and not a "widebander" trying to pull off midrange duty. Also, the included hardware makes it kind of a no-brainer if you put any kind of dollar sign on your time spent fabricating rings anywhere as functionally slick as the GB hardware. .. So yeah I'm a bit of an Audiofrog 'fanboi' after hearing them and after working with them in an installation.

Oh, also, I was really conservative erring on the side of safety with initial high-pass crossover point (400hz).. So I kicked it down to 350hz and only change really was more stage up above the dash and more coherence in lower mids. Reviewing Erin's thoughts on that, I might even tip it down closer to 300hz.. If they pull that off like I imagine they will, holy cow! But also will depend on whether that slope trend in my particular car continues or if that 400-900 bump is an indicator my car's acoustics make them low-mid heavy.. If it's consistent however, a pretty wide-Q shaping cut can do wonders. 

World's shortest review.  I'm definitely digging the Frogs though I've only started working on the tune, and it all gets pulled out again when I finish the pillars but it'll certainly be the best sound this car has ever seen.


----------



## .69077

Just read all 19 pages, looks amazing! Getting me excited to start my build soon. So far I've picked up the ferrule idea and am going to go buy a router in the morning, lol


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## JayinMI

HIGHLY recommend Bosch or Porter Cable. My second router was a Bosch 1617 that came with fixed and plunge bases. They also make a fixed base that is adjustable from underneath so you can use it as a poor man's router lift. 

Jay


----------



## Babs

m249saw said:


> Just read all 19 pages, looks amazing! Getting me excited to start my build soon. So far I've picked up the ferrule idea and am going to go buy a router in the morning, lol



Thanks. I've been having fun putting the cart in front of the horse and tuning. Sounds absolutely off the chain best this car has ever even remotely sounded. I'm that stoked about it. 

Yep a router is a must have for this kind of stuff, but I caution.. Learn the safety of it for good safe use. There are no mulligans or do-overs. If it jumps on you it can flat out do damage. 



JayinMI said:


> HIGHLY recommend Bosch or Porter Cable. My second router was a Bosch 1617 that came with fixed and plunge bases. They also make a fixed base that is adjustable from underneath so you can use it as a poor man's router lift.
> 
> 
> 
> Jay



I got the 800 series with fixed and then got the plunge base. Absolutely best tool purchase ever. Though I think for a lot of it, a smaller 600 series might have been sufficient. I've not found the 890 to be too cumbersome though. Great strong routers. 

I've gotta break down and drop in my benchdog plate though into something for a table. That's where the fun begins I bet. 



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## Babs

So small update I can't much show but, been tuning a bit. Sound.. oh yeah baby!! How are the subs?.. Holy cow! I've got them throttled back in the Helix -11db, and also about -5db on the TM65's only running one of two voice coils. No problem with a sub stage now I'd say. 

Tried a different technique for timing and doing some initial individual driver EQ and that alone has it sounding pretty solid. The driver placement definitely doesn't make me fight a drifting ghosting image like prior with the 2-way. It's as though they want to present a great image and stage. Also I firmly believe since the drivers aren't blasting reflective energy at their closest side door window, that's contributing a lot.

Got the silver color nylon flock kit. Looks pretty good however I'm still going to get over to carquest and match up SEM color coat to these Honda pillars. Depends on which has a better color match I think, but flock is a pretty cool look when done well. 


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## .69077

I take it you like the GB25s? They look like they will fit my dash location a lot better than my Gladen 4"ers.


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## Babs

m249saw said:


> I take it you like the GB25s? They look like they will fit my dash location a lot better than my Gladen 4"ers.



They're tuning up right well. Great natural and neutral stage. Very good output. Definitely a bigger sound than their size would indicate. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brewermoe

Already said, I know, but GreAt JoB! lol 

Putting the cart in front of the horse just may work in your favour!

Not sure if others have had this issue, or if because we have such drastic temperature changes, or the fact I'm a noob lol, but both my pillars have a small crack one season later. 
It's in almost the same spot on each pillar. I have also noticed that the 3" mid goes from about a 1/8th of an inch above the second tier dash to actually touching it! Never would have thought it would expand and contract so much! That's ok though, I never did get a chance to put the final touches on them. Still much to do, and I started in May as well, May of 2015!!! lol


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## brewermoe

Two weeks and no update ! It's like waiting for season two of your favorite episode! lol


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## Babs

brewermoe said:


> Two weeks and no update ! It's like waiting for season two of your favorite episode! lol



Hey sorry guys. Yeah I've been taking it easy enjoying the tune and having fun at finals and hearing some awesome cars there. I've got to break down and finish the pillars still and clean up the amp install a bit, or move it. But as far as sound goes I couldn't be happier. 

Individual driver response after some crossover and EQ work:








I'll probably yet pull back some bandwidths as I think their acoustic crossovers are a good bit over-lapped. Will measure and see. 

Last night I spent some time phasing in midbass along with subs a bit better and some extremely good things happened.. especially in the lower mid range between mids and midbass drivers. So apparently, unless I'm approaching it wrong, I had way too much delay on the midbass drivers compared to mids. They really tightened up as well as blended better by adjusting. 


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## beak81champ

This is awesome to hear, Babs!


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## Babs

Major minor update.. New source. It rocks. 










I can see why so many folks run this thing. The 99RS brings it. Running one left/right pair into my previous Helix tune it's rockin. Source signal sounds as good as she looks.


----------



## oabeieo

Babs said:


> Major minor update.. New source. It rocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see why so many folks run this thing. The 99RS brings it. Running one left/right pair into my previous Helix tune it's rockin. Source signal sounds as good as she looks.


So do you use 3way into the helix?


----------



## strong*I*bumpin

Is it possible to flip the pocket and have the HU on bottom?...me thinks it would look better ,that way you have somewhere to rest your hand while operating the HU


----------



## oabeieo

strong*I*bumpin said:


> Is it possible to flip the pocket and have the HU on bottom?...me thinks it would look better ,that way you have somewhere to rest your hand while operating the HU


Babs has an si so he has swc , 
Besides, wouldn't want to wear out that beautiful faceplate, so the ir remote would prevent that, plus navigating with the remote is soooo fast n easy 



.... I guess babs can answer that tho , but my p99 has virtually no use on the face so all buttons are fresh and un-worn out.


----------



## High Resolution Audio

Looks like she is coming along good. For me, one I got the system up and playing, it kind of took the wind out of my sails for doing the finishing work. You have become an expert installer and tuner in the last few months. Great work. Hope to sit in her one day!


----------



## Babs

oabeieo said:


> So do you use 3way into the helix?



Yep.. GB10, GB25, TM65, AE SBP12's. Absolutely loving the setup. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Babs

strong*I*bumpin said:


> Is it possible to flip the pocket and have the HU on bottom?...me thinks it would look better ,that way you have somewhere to rest your hand while operating the HU






oabeieo said:


> Babs has an si so he has swc ,
> 
> Besides, wouldn't want to wear out that beautiful faceplate, so the ir remote would prevent that, plus navigating with the remote is soooo fast n easy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... I guess babs can answer that tho , but my p99 has virtually no use on the face so all buttons are fresh and un-worn out.



Great idea. I had considered doing bottom pocket, but I've found even with the learning curve the UI is very similar but better than it's 80PRS predecessor.. I've hardly even touched the face. The remote absolutely rocks. You can do I think practically everything from the remote. I'll be buying a spare. . And yes I found the PAC SWI-CP5 can be accessed super easy underneath riding up above the little pocket below. So where it's at in top pocket is actually more practical. Still have easy use of the little pocket below it for disks etc. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Babs

High Resolution Audio said:


> Looks like she is coming along good. For me, one I got the system up and playing, it kind of took the wind out of my sails for doing the finishing work. You have become an expert installer and tuner in the last few months. Great work. Hope to sit in her one day!



NCSQ spring meet. Will be big fun. Yes I do need to finish my pillars though so I'm not without sin. Thanks for the kind words. I'm still very much learning I think. The big thing at this point I think is simply doing more and gaining more experience. This is just scratching the surface I think from a lot of builds I think. Just takes getting down there and cracking open the resin can or breaking out the router. Much work needed with the shop too to be ready to easy start stuff like that. Need to fix up a router table big time. 


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## ErinH

I agree. I prefer having the blank space at the bottom.


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## few35t

This is gonna make me tear apart my Si and just redo EVERYTHING one day. Need like at least $5k to blow and a separate car to drive before I even consider it.

Sick build man!


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## Babs

w35t_fg2 said:


> This is gonna make me tear apart my Si and just redo EVERYTHING one day. Need like at least $5k to blow and a separate car to drive before I even consider it.
> 
> Sick build man!



Be careful what you wish for. Seems like mine has sat more than its driven last year or so. But I'm a slow poke. Now I'm looking to do Si stuff.. Better stock-height suspension, and fix the Honda paint-disease on the top. She's got about 90k on the odometer. Been a great car. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## few35t

Babs said:


> Be careful what you wish for. Seems like mine has sat more than its driven last year or so. But I'm a slow poke. Now I'm looking to do Si stuff.. Better stock-height suspension, and fix the Honda paint-disease on the top. She's got about 90k on the odometer. Been a great car.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I really wish I could have done an install over a long period, I did everything on mine in 2 weeks and it's a daily, plus I travel 75% of the time for work, makes projects like yours next to impossible for me. Need a beater.

We're the opposite though, when I first got mine I played with different suspension setups and wheel/tire combos and got out of that for the audio stuff. 

As far as suspensions go I've had:

Full HFP
HFP shocks/struts & Tein S Techs
Koni Orange shocks/struts & Tein S Techs
Koni Yellow shocks/struts & Neuspeed Race Springs

Also had some sweet Volk CE28's and Work 11r's.

I'm not sure what you want out of 'better suspension that's stock ride height', but if you'd like any more info on any of those I'd be glad to share my experiences.


----------



## Babs

w35t_fg2 said:


> I'm not sure what you want out of 'better suspension that's stock ride height', but if you'd like any more info on any of those I'd be glad to share my experiences.


It's just got a bit of a clunky ride I think.. At 90k I figured shocks or springs or both might be done for.. Haven't owned a little somewhat sporty ride like this one so dunno.. Thought maybe it might need springs at least, but figure while I'm there. Having looked into what's involved it looks like a fairly straight forward job.


----------



## few35t

Babs said:


> It's just got a bit of a clunky ride I think.. At 90k I figured shocks or springs or both might be done for.. Haven't owned a little somewhat sporty ride like this one so dunno.. Thought maybe it might need springs at least, but figure while I'm there. Having looked into what's involved it looks like a fairly straight forward job.


Is the clunkiness you're referring to a sound? A clunky sound could simply mean the nuts on the tophat have come loose, which you can easily check just by raising the hood and making sure they're torqued down. If the suspension has been out before a clunky sound could be coming from the tophats not being oriented properly, there are arrows on top that need to point forward.

Springs don't really fail honestly, not anywhere 90k miles anyway. New oem springs would change nothing, Honda Factory Performance (HFP) springs ride like hell and lower the car ~0.5", and the remaining aftermarket springs wouldn't be an option as they all lower the car more. 

Shocks on the other hand can definitely start to wear out in the 100k mile range. Since you want to keep stock ride height I'd say just keep the springs and get Koni STR.T (oranges), they're sportier than stock and cheaper; tuned like Koni Sports (yellows) on full soft. You can get a full set for like $350 or so and do the install in a few hours, it's super easy.


----------



## Babs

w35t_fg2 said:


> Is the clunkiness you're referring to a sound? A clunky sound could simply mean the nuts on the tophat have come loose, which you can easily check just by raising the hood and making sure they're torqued down. If the suspension has been out before a clunky sound could be coming from the tophats not being oriented properly, there are arrows on top that need to point forward.
> 
> Springs don't really fail honestly, not anywhere 90k miles anyway. New oem springs would change nothing, Honda Factory Performance (HFP) springs ride like hell and lower the car ~0.5", and the remaining aftermarket springs wouldn't be an option as they all lower the car more.
> 
> Shocks on the other hand can definitely start to wear out in the 100k mile range. Since you want to keep stock ride height I'd say just keep the springs and get Koni STR.T (oranges), they're sportier than stock and cheaper; tuned like Koni Sports (yellows) on full soft. You can get a full set for like $350 or so and do the install in a few hours, it's super easy.


Outstanding! Thanks for the info Sir. Folks have also mentioned to me stuff about worn or dried out bushings etc etc.. Stuff I know little about. What I need is a nickel tour with a good "tuner" guy, a six pack of something good, pointing out everything in around under and beyond in the car. Poor 8thcivic forum just scares me anymore. I imagine someone who knows these cars well driving it would know what she needs.


----------



## few35t

Babs said:


> Outstanding! Thanks for the info Sir. Folks have also mentioned to me stuff about worn or dried out bushings etc etc.. Stuff I know little about. What I need is a nickel tour with a good "tuner" guy, a six pack of something good, pointing out everything in around under and beyond in the car. Poor 8thcivic forum just scares me anymore. I imagine someone who knows these cars well driving it would know what she needs.


Did it turn into a troll den? I used to be on it a lot. Since you're nearing the 100k mark shocks and struts are likely all it needs, but when you swap those out you'll be able to see the condition of bushings and get a better feel for the suspension in general. 

As far as the six pack there's plenty of great beer in Asheville


----------



## mitchyz250f

If the struts are the causing the noise it is as very likely what w35t_fg2 wrote. Tighten the17mm nut that holds the shock shaft to the top hat to 33 ft/lbs.

Some people (people that sell shocks) may tell you that you should replace the shocks at the same time you replace the struts. Not true Rear shocks are under almost no load during normal or aggressive driving in front wheel drive cars. And unless you have been carrying rocks in the trunk they should be fine.

Also like w35t_fg2 Koni make great shocks and struts that will last forever. I blew the front shocks of my 1986 CRX driving to work and back on Palos Verdes Drive; the road between Palos Verdes and Torrance Town beach that follows the coast. The road is subject to constant landslides and is repaved twice a year to cover the large cracks and elevations changes caused by road movement during landslides. I was catching air on its the many undulations and after 10,000 miles my front shocks were trashed. I replaced them with Koni’s and they lasted another 230,000 miles no problems. BTW the rear OEM shocks were never replaced and were fine.


----------



## Babs

Well.. Along with a set of rotors and pads for the wife's 07 Fozie XT Ltd (which I'd love to see stolen), I guess I'll add a suspension piggy bank next to the amp piggy bank next to the subie brakes piggy bank. Tire rack has the yellows.. Don't see Orange Koni's.


----------



## few35t

Babs said:


> Well.. Along with a set of rotors and pads for the wife's 07 Fozie XT Ltd (which I'd love to see stolen), I guess I'll add a suspension piggy bank next to the amp piggy bank next to the subie brakes piggy bank. Tire rack has the yellows.. Don't see Orange Koni's.


If you can afford all that audio gear you can afford ~ tree fiddy for some new dampahz. KONI STR.T (Orange) Shocks Struts Front & Rear Kit 06-11 Honda Civic Coupe NEW | eBay

Edit: Also, the yellows are a great alternative if you want something sportier, they're adjustable. BUT, the fronts are inserts, so you actually modify your stock front suspension using the inserts, so the install is more involved. They also cost more.


----------



## Babs

w35t_fg2 said:


> If you can afford all that audio gear you can afford ~ tree fiddy for some new dampahz. KONI STR.T (Orange) Shocks Struts Front & Rear Kit 06-11 Honda Civic Coupe NEW | eBay
> 
> Edit: Also, the yellows are a great alternative if you want something sportier, they're adjustable. BUT, the fronts are inserts, so you actually modify your stock front suspension using the inserts, so the install is more involved. They also cost more.


Noice! Yeah I'll shop a bit.. Saw a vid with a guy doing yellows with a bunch of mod stuff going on with a drill and hack saw.. Nope! Drop in for me.


----------



## knifedag007

Babs said:


> the wife's 07 Fozie XT Ltd (which I'd love to see stolen)


Whats wrong with it other than the brakes, those are great cars from what I've seen.


----------



## Babs

knifedag007 said:


> Whats wrong with it other than the brakes, those are great cars from what I've seen.


Oh where to start: 

A nasty exhaust leak up near left side. 

Replaced some supplemental air pump that which was expensive as hell and on turbo's of course Subaru wouldn't cover it like on the non-turbos. 

Replaced the radiator after it blew. That's a first for me. 

Replaced key fob with immobilizer that left her stranded because it fell apart.

Had to have rotors turned, twice. Still ongoing.

Can't keep it in alignment. 

Turbo boost surges because the ECU can't unf#$# itself.. Anytime you're pulling long uphills. Haven't found a solution, nor have the techs. 

It's a 4EAT (4 spd auto) which right there from the start, I hated the car which is why the wife has the car now. Best way to describe it's sense of gear changing would be simply to call it a trans'tard. 

Every single panel.. Every one.. From A through D pillar and everything else.. Rattles like an Arizona diamondback with an attitude problem and raging case of turrets.

Best part is... It has a J vin number (meaning assembled in Japan).. I thought that was a cool thing meaning made better quality or something. Maybe not so much. And it remains the single most expensive car I've ever purchased.

It's too small for me.. I feel like I'm sitting in a go-cart at 48 years old.. My 5'2" wife love it however.. short people!

It is in a sense, two cars in one.. It is my first, and also my last subaru. It has shattered my ingrained expectation of Japanese automobiles. It has reshaped my opinion of vehicles in general. :mean: My happiest life moment awaits, meaning the day I sell it. Anyone want a clean used soobie turbo?


----------



## knifedag007

Babs said:


> It is in a sense, two cars in one.. It is my first, and also my last subaru. It has shattered my ingrained expectation of Japanese automobiles. It has reshaped my opinion of vehicles in general. :mean: My happiest life moment awaits, meaning the day I sell it. Anyone want a clean used soobie turbo?


Wow, one of the first people I have heard say bad things about the forester. Most people love them. 
I only asked because I am in the market for a second vehicle with a little better ground clearance than my SI which is slammed and am looking for a 04-08 body style Subaru Forester but I will stick with the manual transmission.


----------



## Babs

knifedag007 said:


> Wow, one of the first people I have heard say bad things about the forester. Most people love them.
> I only asked because I am in the market for a second vehicle with a little better ground clearance than my SI which is slammed and am looking for a 04-08 body style Subaru Forester but I will stick with the manual transmission.


I know.. That's the surprising thing. Granted if I were to try to give the car credit, the motor itself is solid as a rock. It's the stuff around it that's suspect, but also my wife's natural tendency to get all the goods out of the brakes instead of coasting to stops, and simply continuing to drive it even though the alignment is out, and if there's a pot hole she'll make sure to nail it. She never misses hitting the pot hole. Ever. LOL! And... The car kinda does have 145k miles so, I might tend to be a tad harsh. 

If you do consider that body forester, hunt for a turbo Sport or XT. And for the love of all things sacred and little puppies, do NOT get an auto transmission.. You will shorten your life expectancy with the stress of that crappy transmission shifting. Then if you get one, go in and fix all the panels with CLD and clip reinforcement with tesa tape or felt etc.. Do a metric ton of CLD just because.. It's the single louded car I've driven made after 1985. Also see if the supplemental air pump had been replaced. Check on the radiator. Check on head gaskets, because I've read that's next. 

Other than that, you'd pretty much have a 2.5L WRX with actual room in the back and some ground clearance.. I actually did a demo ride in the same body 5-spd XT with STi springs, blow-off valve, catback, CAI, etc etc.. Modestly modded.. It was scary awesome in the curves and one of the quickest 4-cylinders I've ever been in.


----------



## Locomotive Tech

IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!

Just ordered 2 SBP 12's for an I/B in the 2014 civic


----------



## Babs

Locomotive Tech said:


> IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!
> 
> Just ordered 2 SBP 12's for an I/B in the 2014 civic


Awesome! Make sure you have plenty of CLD and CCF on hand. I've got to track down a new buzz in right side, possibly D-pillar or deck. 

Crossed currently at somewhere between 63-70hz can't remember, the strong TM65's allow really bringing it upfront. The midbass impact combined with good alignment and phasing with the subs makes all the difference. Demo'd a friend of mine and asked him where he thought I put the sub.. He waved over the center of the dash and asked me how I did it. All I could do was give a cheesy grin.


----------



## Locomotive Tech

Yeah the rear deck is full of rattles for me. Have the rear deck, seats and trunk lining out right now. My front mid basses turned out to be better suited as pure subs, they really seem to fall apart above 4-500 Hz. But as pure subs was impressed that they played down to 40 with impressive authority. Could be the tune, haven't played with the Twk yet but who knows.

I hope to hear your system next year, sounds like you have sub dialed in


----------



## knifedag007

Babs said:


> If you do consider that body forester, hunt for a turbo Sport or XT. And for the love of all things sacred and little puppies, do NOT get an auto transmission.
> Other than that, you'd pretty much have a 2.5L WRX with actual room in the back and some ground clearance.. I actually did a demo ride in the same body 5-spd XT with STi springs, blow-off valve, catback, CAI, etc etc.. Modestly modded.. It was scary awesome in the curves and one of the quickest 4-cylinders I've ever been in.


Yeah I am specifically looking for a XT 5spd manual. I plan on going to opposite for the normal modding on these. I want a 2.5 in lift and all terrain tires with a bull bar on the front and a skid plate. 
Something like this.











Babs said:


> I've got to track down a new buzz in right side, possibly D-pillar or deck.





Locomotive Tech said:


> Yeah the rear deck is full of rattles for me. Have the rear deck, seats and trunk lining out right now.


I have actually had the rear deck out of my FG2 for over 2 years. I had a rattle and no time to track it down and fix it so I just yanked it out. I'm lazy and just haven't gotten around to getting it back together with fixing the rattle so . . .


----------



## naiku

Locomotive Tech said:


> Yeah the rear deck is full of rattles for me. Have the rear deck, seats and trunk lining out right now. My front mid basses turned out to be better suited as pure subs, they really seem to fall apart above 4-500 Hz. But as pure subs was impressed that they played down to 40 with impressive authority. Could be the tune, haven't played with the Twk yet but who knows.
> 
> I hope to hear your system next year, sounds like you have sub dialed in


You have to make sure you are either at the NC meet or head down to my meet again. Will want to listen to yours (and Scott's) at some point.


----------



## MXCRAZY123

Hey man, are you looking to get rid of those nvx tweeters and those custom mounts you made? I have an 09 SI and am planning to go down the rabbit hole 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs

MXCRAZY123 said:


> Hey man, are you looking to get rid of those nvx tweeters and those custom mounts you made? I have an 09 SI and am planning to go down the rabbit hole
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Heck yeah on the pods. I still have them. Tweets are gone but no prob I bet sonic has a deal going on for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## MXCRAZY123

Babs said:


> Heck yeah on the pods. I still have them. Tweets are gone but no prob I bet sonic has a deal going on for them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




I wouldnt mind taking em off your hands if you want a little extra cash haha. Sonicelectronix has em for $120. Really interested in going that route. Are the pods setup on axis?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs

MXCRAZY123 said:


> I wouldnt mind taking em off your hands if you want a little extra cash haha. Sonicelectronix has em for $120. Really interested in going that route. Are the pods setup on axis?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yep. Set them up on axis and man how easy. Just get wire to them and you're installed. 

I still have an Audio Integrations enclosure for the 8th Sedan as well.  super well built sub enclosure. Takes very little trunk room also. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Babs

I'll add $120 for those tweeters is a great value. They're excellent for that price. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## MXCRAZY123

Babs said:


> Yep. Set them up on axis and man how easy. Just get wire to them and you're installed.
> 
> I still have an Audio Integrations enclosure for the 8th Sedan as well.  super well built sub enclosure. Takes very little trunk room also.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




Cool. Well, I will get with you soon. I will be starting from the ground up with this car. All that I have done is a little 10" polk in the trunk. Coming up with the funds for everything is going to be the hurdle. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs

MXCRAZY123 said:


> Cool. Well, I will get with you soon. I will be starting from the ground up with this car. All that I have done is a little 10" polk in the trunk. Coming up with the funds for everything is going to be the hurdle.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Sure! Just hit me up. If you get em both pods and box I'll throw in some belden 16awg in-wall speaker wire to get your project going. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## KrautNotRice

Woohoo!
I'm the 500th post in your thread. Now get back to work, we demand updates...


----------



## percy072

Babs said:


> Last night I spent some time phasing in midbass along with subs a bit better and some extremely good things happened...


Anyway to help me understand what is going on by "phasing in midbass"??

Really liking your build...those little Honda pocket windows are such a perfect spot to do just what your doing. 

Thank's


----------



## dgage

Think about an acapella group, if they don't get on the same timing, they won't sound good. Same with speakers, you have to make sure the audio waves from each speaker arrive at the same time or in phase. In a home audio receiver, you often see it as a distance from the listening position for each speaker. The distance just translates to a ms delay for the nearest speakers to get in line with the furthest speaker. Same applies to car audio speakers since their locations will put some closer and some further from the listener's ears.


----------



## percy072

^^So it's another way of saying "adjusting TA"?? or is it something a little different??

Sorry Bab's...don't mean to highjack, just never heard that term before.


----------



## dgage

That's what I thought of when I read it.


----------



## Babs

To clarify y'all. I meant TA AND phase. In a perfect scenario they should be one and the same and typically are but, in car your mileage may vary some unfortunately. Plus there's a lot of phase stuff that happens when you use our typical car DSP's for IIR-based EQ and crossovers so you can be pretty spot on with arrival times with TA but still need to verify in phase. On my last tune I did it mainly by ear between tweets and mids, then mids and midbass then midbass to subs and it was spectacular I thought. 

Example.. TA mids left right for good center. Repeat for midbass. Then TA by distance relatively where midbass and mids aught to be given their distance delta but verify by noise or tones in pass bands between them. When all phased up the results for me turned out really really great. The result was great coherence from midrange down into lower midrange played by midbass. So there's left/right timing, then top/down timing. Getting all six drivers in sync at ear and in phase. The result is lovely. 

Right now I'm mourning the death of my favorite motorcycle brand. Sad day for us Victory riders. But enough on that. I guess now I ride a classic. 










So next I'm waiting on a DSP Pro-2 in the mail. Booyah! Can't wait. More to come on the build but it's too damn cold in basement to work on anything. Plus all spare time is sucked up prepping for a nasty dual standard safety and environmental audit coming next week. Yyyyyyuck. 


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## bbfoto

^Nice bike, Scott! Shame about Victory, but yeah, now you've got a collector's bike that's also a blast to ride.  You might want to rush out and buy a horde of any parts that you think you might need in the future.

Congrats on bumping up to the DSP Pro Mk 2. I'm debating that upgrade as well. Should be sweet.


----------



## Babs

bbfoto said:


> ^Nice bike, Scott! Shame about Victory, but yeah, now you've got a collector's bike that's also a blast to ride.  You might want to rush out and buy a horde of any parts that you think you might need in the future.


Supposedly thank goodness Polaris will provide parts for 10 years so I'm not terribly concerned, but considering how awesome these bikes are, it's a crying shame. I chalk it up as absolutely great engineering and manufacturing, followed by absolutely tragic marketing, dealer support and market push. The customers who know the bikes sell them because they love them. Was merely a matter of assisting and utilizing that. But I self-thread-hijack. Sorry. My grief has moved on from disbelief to anger stage. It'd be different if it were some Guzzi that slung oil and blew gaskets or stripped gears but it's not.. It's probably the most bulletproof V-twin on the planet. A real tragedy.



bbfoto said:


> Congrats on bumping up to the DSP Pro Mk 2. I'm debating that upgrade as well. Should be sweet.


Thanks.. As I had the regular 8channel it was a completely unnecessary upgrade, however I'll be anxious to hear if there's a sonic difference.. I suspect it will be better. But the main reasoning was for a USB HEC to play with direct USB streaming later down the road. An extra spare channel might also be cool for possibly a measurement reference loopback. Who knows. Depends on how flat the DSP projects a full-range unprocessed signal. I imagine pretty dang flat. Can loop a channel at the mic pre just as easy I suppose once I do a weird Y-cable for it.


----------



## Babs

So a little update since I've not done so for a while. So when we last left the caped crusader we had a source unit swap. The 99RS has been boogying really nicely. 

So this weekend after living through some work challenges I took some time to pull the amp rack and wire up a replacement DSP Pro-2, replacing a DSP (8ch mk1). 

Amp rack pron: 





































She ain't pretty but functional. So after much fun setting gains, I queued up my last tune and adjusted for some timing stuff etc going from a DSP V3 tune to Pro-2 in V4 of the tool. Been in my car for oh an hour and 45 minutes just enjoying. Nice to be excited about it again. 

I should add.. May be upgrade bias, but I do think there's a slight edge with the Pro-2 over the mk1 8ch DSP. Looking at the specs and the bump from burr-browns to 32bit AKM's and the DSP resolution bump it's safe to say it aughta be a sonic upgrade. Natural and revealing a bit more I think. 

Also this go around I had to flip to high level vs low level input switch on the amps since the Pro-2 maxes out at 8v output vs I think 4v prior. So that was interesting. Running a DD-1 I was only cracking the throttle at low-level before it clipped. I was definitely pegging the output max on the range at the amp. Something to consider.. The new Pro-2 brings serious voltage at the output stage. It's certainly even more quiet than the already quiet DSP as well. DSPs have definitely come a long way I think. 

I'll be doing a fresh from scratch tune because why not. If it ain't broken I'll surely fix it. 


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## optimaprime

I dig it a lot. Love the stealth installs


----------



## captainobvious

Looks great so far Scott


----------



## optimaprime

Is it still audio frog tweets and mids ?


----------



## Truthunter

Nice work Scott. I think the amp rack looks just fine... but I'm a function over form guy so 
Hope I can make it to some gtgs this year and hear your vehicle.


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## Babs

optimaprime said:


> Is it still audio frog tweets and mids ?



Yep. Haven't shown because nothing to show yet. Gotta get them finished out still. It's been either too cold in the garage or simply no time to bust em out. 


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## MXCRAZY123

Looking good man! Cant wait to tear i to my Si


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## bbfoto

That amp rack looks great to me! Very nicely laid out dude. Function beats form every time.


----------



## rain27

Is the amp rack bolted to the car or is the cutout tight enough to where you didn't need to do that?


----------



## Babs

rain27 said:


> Is the amp rack bolted to the car or is the cutout tight enough to where you didn't need to do that?


Yep.. Few pages back found this.. This is the bottom plate I made long ago. It attaches to two rivnuts in the floor and the large spare tire bolt location. Solid as a rock. It provides a base for whatever I want to do. Thank you Bing for many build logs using rivnuts for the idea. 

















This was the top piece currently I'm using before all the stuff was attached, and screwed down to the base.









You'll see here, I sharpeed circles around the screw spots. Then the challenge is how to hit the same holes on the base if you remove it. Ah! That's where those two screwdrivers poking through the top piece come in.. I drilled two alignment holes.. I lay base down, align up the holes with the screwdrivers, then I know I'm in the same exact spot and orientation. Then zip zip zip with the spax screws and she's back in. 









If anything, I should consider a cross beam from the two MDF uprights for better support of the trunk floor liner piece which isn't much of anything.. corrugate plastic sheet with carpet glued to it.


----------



## dgage

Wouldn't they be threaded inserts when dealing with wood or did you drill a hole in the floor and put in rivnuts into the metal? If the latter, what rivnut tool did you go with?


----------



## Babs

dgage said:


> Wouldn't they be threaded inserts when dealing with wood or did you drill a hole in the floor and put in rivnuts into the metal? If the latter, what rivnut tool did you go with?



Rivnuts at the rearmost corners into trunk floor, then the board is screwed down to those with flat head screws flush, with spacers between board and rivnut/trunk floor underneath so it floats level. The rack is level to the trunk floor plane above. If I recall correctly I used 10-32 rivnuts. 


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## dgage

Thanks Babs. What rivnut tool did you buy?


----------



## Babs

dgage said:


> Thanks Babs. What rivnut tool did you buy?



Picked up a Marson rivnut kit somewhere. 


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## Babs

So I finally, FINALLY, made myself pull the pillars to finish them up. Rolling around ideas on finishing. The flock material I have is actually a fairly decent color match, but that'll mean I gotta get them pretty smooth. Working on a few problem areas.
























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## bertholomey

Looks good my friend! You can do it!!!


----------



## MXCRAZY123

Nice 


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## optimaprime

I like those pillars sir!!


----------



## High Resolution Audio

Babs said:


> Yep. Haven't shown because nothing to show yet. Gotta get them finished out still. It's been either too cold in the garage or simply no time to bust em out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Dyna-Glo Pro 60K BTU Forced Air Propane Portable Heater-RMC-FA60DGP - The Home Depot


----------



## oabeieo

Them pillars looking sweet.... 

Grey flock in that bag? That would be alright what about grey suede with the foam backing torn off. Makes it really stretchy and a lot thinner.

Whatever you do will be pretty sweet. I love that there buried down into that window area. Doesn't stick out at all.


----------



## Babs

oabeieo said:


> Them pillars looking sweet....
> 
> Grey flock in that bag? That would be alright what about grey suede with the foam backing torn off. Makes it really stretchy and a lot thinner.
> 
> Whatever you do will be pretty sweet. I love that there buried down into that window area. Doesn't stick out at all.


Yeah that's a flock kit I picked up a good while back.. Just now putting the energy into it. I suspect it'll look good if I stay diligent on detail and smooth end product.

"grey suede"... Yeah I'd be interested in some suede material that's stretchy.. Hard to beat the look. Searched a little but dunno if you guys have found a kickin' source for good suede that doesn't cost your first born per yard.

So anyone know sources for stuff like that lemme know.. Always something good to have on shelf.. Alcantara, Ultrasuede, etc etc.


----------



## MXCRAZY123

Hey Scott. I dont think I ever saw what your impressions are about the CLD with ccf/mlv. Road noise in our cars is a PITA. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

MXCRAZY123 said:


> Hey Scott. I dont think I ever saw what your impressions are about the CLD with ccf/mlv. Road noise in our cars is a PITA.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Made a pretty significant difference.. Unfortunately I don't have any SPL data to back that up at all, but I perceive it did some good running the CCF/MLV throughout the floor. The roof and other areas however I think could use some help.. There's a good bit of transferral into the roof.. I just didn't want to get into pulling the liner or I would have done it. Reach the point of diminishing returns I think. But rear doors, pillars and roof I think would be about the last areas I could add any CLD and proofing material.

That said.. I have one other project I would like to tackle before the spring NCSQ meet, if I can. The big gaping holes in the front doors behind the CCF/MLV layer need to be sealed up with something solid. The MLV layer alone isn't cutting it. I'll definitely update the log when I get to that. Should be interesting I hope. Goal is significantly better mid-bass performance, coherence and freq response, but I imagine it will also have sound-proofing benefits as well.


----------



## MXCRAZY123

Just got home and was playing with some test tones on the little polk coaxials in my front doors ran off the stock amp... 
Talk about some nasty dips and peaks. Also 85-100hz kills the plastic door panels. Going to have to address that down the road. Very audible dips in the 600-900 hz region. HORRIBLY ear piecing peaks around 4khz to 6khz. Nothing new, just had to write it down hahahaha. I finally pulled the trigger on a Pioneer avh x4800bs yesterday. Sorry for thread jacking you. Watching your build is inspiring. Cant wait to use those pods man. Thanks for everything. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## oabeieo

Babs said:


> Yeah that's a flock kit I picked up a good while back.. Just now putting the energy into it. I suspect it'll look good if I stay diligent on detail and smooth end product.
> 
> "grey suede"... Yeah I'd be interested in some suede material that's stretchy.. Hard to beat the look. Searched a little but dunno if you guys have found a kickin' source for good suede that doesn't cost your first born per yard.
> 
> So anyone know sources for stuff like that lemme know.. Always something good to have on shelf.. Alcantara, Ultrasuede, etc etc.


Keeson here in denver is a distributor and it's not that expensive for the suede liner, 
Pull the backing off it just comes right off and that stuff has decent stretch to it...
I could send you samples if want...

Pm me if interested....no charge for that....it's a couple stamps


----------



## Babs

oabeieo said:


> Keeson here in denver is a distributor and it's not that expensive for the suede liner,
> 
> Pull the backing off it just comes right off and that stuff has decent stretch to it...
> 
> I could send you samples if want...
> 
> 
> 
> Pm me if interested....no charge for that....it's a couple stamps



Oh man. Might have to take you up on that and get a quote. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Babs

In meantime.. This happened..









I'd say I'm done with head units. 


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----------



## MXCRAZY123

Oh God. What are you doing with the Pioneer?


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----------



## LBaudio

WOW!


----------



## Babs

MXCRAZY123 said:


> Oh God. What are you doing with the Pioneer?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I could save it for the Tacoma or list it.. Its pristine and sounds awesome. Just had the itch to try the Sony with some hirez stuff and the songpal UI. 

Thinking more on it, once I do the swap and the Sony's running on all cylinders, I'll very likely list the 99RS once it's out of the car and I can take good pics.


----------



## optimaprime

Babs said:


> In meantime.. This happened..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say I'm done with head units.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


****ing bad ass head unit right there buddy! Can't wait to see it in!


----------



## captainobvious

oabeieo said:


> Keeson here in denver is a distributor and it's not that expensive for the suede liner,
> Pull the backing off it just comes right off and that stuff has decent stretch to it...
> I could send you samples if want...
> 
> Pm me if interested....no charge for that....it's a couple stamps



Same as this stuff?

Suede Headliner (Foam Backed)


----------



## High Resolution Audio

Congrats, Scott. Nice Head unit. I'm sure you will be very happy with it. You think you'll have it up and running and installed in your system in time for the GTG?


----------



## Electrodynamic

Babs said:


> Check this out. Our Ops MGR who's got a shrink tubing printer in his office just dropped these off. Nothing like using company goods for personal stuff. This is way cool!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


^ THAT is VERY cool. Can you shoot me an email if you boss is willing to produce another run of those? I'd like to use them in my setup for the speaker wires instead of writing on the wire with a sharpie.


----------



## Babs

Electrodynamic said:


> ^ THAT is VERY cool. Can you shoot me an email if you boss is willing to produce another run of those? I'd like to use them in my setup for the speaker wires instead of writing on the wire with a sharpie.


Yeah as weird as it's been here lately, it's probably not in the cards.


----------



## Babs

High Resolution Audio said:


> Congrats, Scott. Nice Head unit. I'm sure you will be very happy with it. You think you'll have it up and running and installed in your system in time for the GTG?


Yeah the head unit maybe.. Right now finishing up pillars, priority 1.


----------



## oabeieo

captainobvious said:


> Same as this stuff?
> 
> Suede Headliner (Foam Backed)


Not 100% if it's the same I've never use that 
I've seen some of the cheaper stuff that feels like a artificial suede 
Stuff I get feels like actual suede ......

And then I can get actual suede as well but the stuff like 50 bucks a yard 

I think my cost is $28 pretty much a yard for the good stuff and that is a headliner material I don't know if it's the same as that if that's similar than that's obviously a better deal


----------



## oabeieo

And what I mean by artificial suede is like the same stuff the suede Dash mats come In..

Real suede gets really dirty really fast and is a ***** to clean it it's fibers are short


----------



## Babs

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## dsquared

You do some nice work !
Can't wait to see the completion.


----------



## bbfoto

^^Looking REALLY Good, Scott! That's gonna be quite stealthy and unobtrusive, which I like.

Was there just not enough room to put the tweeters vertically above the mids?


----------



## Babs

bbfoto said:


> ^^Looking REALLY Good, Scott! That's gonna be quite stealthy and unobtrusive, which I like.
> 
> 
> 
> Was there just not enough room to put the tweeters vertically above the mids?



Yeah hard to see at that angle but the slope is so dramatic, vertical would have been I think very difficult.. You'd be in total defiance of the shape of that whole pillar area. 

I wanted to keep driver distance differences minimized with mids and tweeters somewhat on the same plane as seen at the seat, and closely spaced, so it wouldn't require a precise sweet spot. Also width and overall distance was a goal. 

So if I had shot for vertical, they'd have to be closer, with tweeters likely closer to head, above the mid. Or something like Casey's Si build some years ago which is in here I think. That was a diagonal build. 

My goal here instead was work 'with' rather than 'against' the lines and planes presented. 

Hopefully it'll look AND sound stellar. Or at least decent for a 1st timer set of pillars. 


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----------



## oabeieo

Babs said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



That looks sick. 

Painted? Texture? Very nice


----------



## Babs

oabeieo said:


> That looks sick.
> 
> 
> 
> Painted? Texture? Very nice



Flocked! These pillars are totally flocked! LOL 


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----------



## Babs

I will say, if y'all notice the line from tweeter to the round edge "scoop" I call it, and that scoop itself. The curve at the top of the triangle. I worked my ever loving ass off to try and get those lines right. There's glass and filler all in that. There are some things I would have liked to do differently with a few minor details but I tell ya, these were a beeyatch. 

Such is a learning curve I guess. If you do a bunch of pillers I suppose each progressive set get easier as you go. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bbfoto

Dude, it definitely shows that you put some work into these! They're _SMOOOOOOTH_ and _SEXAY_ just like your ever-loving @ss!   

But seriously, they look GOOD!


----------



## Babs

CD player? We don't need no stinking CD player! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bbfoto

^LOL. Congrats! Your system is shaping up VERY nicely.


----------



## mitchyz250f

Babs who made your radio dash kit and are you satisfied with the quality? Is this something you researched?


----------



## LBaudio

Flock me.....pillars turned out awesome.....so does that Sony player


----------



## Babs

mitchyz250f said:


> Babs who made your radio dash kit and are you satisfied with the quality? Is this something you researched?



I actually bought that thing from a guy on 8thcivic. I think it's a Scosche. Yeah it's done it's job ok I suppose. Didn't research it that heavily. 

Problem is finding a spot to mount a phone mount from Rokform. There's no real estate. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## knifedag007

mitchyz250f said:


> Babs who made your radio dash kit and are you satisfied with the quality? Is this something you researched?


I have had both the Scosche and Metra kits and both got wavy/deformed along the top from the Texas summer heat. I ended up getting a OEM Navi kit and It has held up nicely


----------



## Babs

We have power.. finally. I think my SWI took a dump, so I had to pull it, redo the harness to remove it. Now all is well. Now to figure out this songpal business. Oh and wait for pillars to finish curing, and get it all in. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## naiku

Looks great, can't wait to listen to this again next month.


----------



## Babs

Well.. my 1st flock job sure as hell ain't perfect.. But I'm using the motto that my UMIK-1 won't know the difference. Bing made the statement to me on this the air flock applicator FTW.. I can see that. Next time I'll be putting the flock through a strainer and using low pressure through the air assisted flock gun. 

Considering researching some kind of fabric spray paint that'd be thin enough to go on more like a dye.. Which would allow some color change. 

Pretty grill teaser. Too damn cold to work in the garage. 










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----------



## Babs

Well this pillar job was easy..

Not!!! 


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----------



## AyOne

Babs said:


> Well this pillar job was easy..
> 
> Not!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Those are beautiful. Great job!


----------



## bbfoto

Those look PIMP, Scott! REALLY Nice Job, man!

How about a nice Charcoal Gray "Hair Color for Men" dye.  Actually might work!

And since you love doing these so much I'll send you my A-Pillars!  Actually mine will be mid and tweet in custom Sail Panels, so a bit easier.


----------



## LBaudio

Nice speakers, nice finish, NICE PILLARS! cant wait to see them installed in the
car


----------



## Babs

bbfoto said:


> Those look PIMP, Scott! REALLY Nice Job, man!
> 
> How about a nice Charcoal Gray "Hair Color for Men" dye.  Actually might work!


Was thinking that color but yeah what to use. Might flock up some samples with the leftover material, in case I come across a few good options, to give it a spray and see how it does. As is I can roll with these, but I don't recall anyone ever trying to dye flock after the fact.. Probably dang near impossible. No biggie.



bbfoto said:


> And since you love doing these so much I'll send you my A-Pillars!  Actually mine will be mid and tweet in custom Sail Panels, so a bit easier.


----------



## j4gates

I won't lie...I'm a little jelly.


----------



## Babs

Haz tunes again. Oh my!
























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----------



## bertholomey

Babs said:


> Haz tunes again. Oh my!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


DUDE! That Sony looks HOT! And those pillars are fantastic! This is such an amazing shot of your car!!!


----------



## bbfoto

Babs said:


> Haz tunes again. Oh my!



(In my best _Gomer Pyle _voice...)

Well, I'll be'a skunk's arm pit, Scotty! WhooooHOOOWhooooWweeee! 'Tat right thar' looks'a mighty Purdy! I'm quite a bit jelly, too! DAMN, Son! U'z got sum tru talentz Fo' Sho'! Bet she soundz 'bout right Purdy, too!!!





****ING AWESOME, MAN!!! :thumbsup:






bbfoto said:


> And since you love doing these so much I'll send you my A-Pillars!  Actually mine will be mid and tweet in custom Sail Panels, so a bit easier.





Babs said:


>


ROTFLMAO 

Yeah, I suppose Money Talks, and...


----------



## Babs

bbfoto said:


> ....
> 
> Yeah, I suppose Money Talks, and...


Ya know, actually I'd certainly entertain it depending on the job to see if I could do a good fabrication work for someone. "remotely" doing pillars or sails I can see two major things that would be bad if not done well. 

1. Driver placement
2. What kinda of space to you have around all edges before you bump into other stuff like dash or pillars or door etc etc.

Made the statement somewhere that after dealing with these beeeeyatches, just a regular plain non-concave simple-curve "bump" on a pillar would be cake walk.. Make it stick, fill it nicely, shape it nicely, finish her and bam!  Hahaha. I'm an expert now..... NOT


----------



## bbfoto

Babs said:


> Ya know, actually I'd certainly entertain it depending on the job to see if I could do a good fabrication work for someone. "remotely" doing pillars or sails I can see two major things that would be bad if not done well.
> 
> 1. Driver placement
> 2. What kinda of space to you have around all edges before you bump into other stuff like dash or pillars or door etc etc.
> 
> Made the statement somewhere that after dealing with these beeeeyatches, just a regular plain non-concave simple-curve "bump" on a pillar would be cake walk.. Make it stick, fill it nicely, shape it nicely, finish her and bam!  Hahaha. I'm an expert now..... NOT


I have no doubt that you'd do a fantastic job!

But yeah, not having the surrounding area to mold to or as a reference makes it tough. I'm fairly particular regarding placement and aiming, too, so you pretty much nailed the issues with doing this "remotely".

If I lived closer I'd readily hand it off to you in a heartbeat.  I thought I'd have more time as I got older, but it's getting more and more difficult to find the time to do stuff like this. 

Anyway, your car and setup are looking Fan-Freakin'-Tastic! Be proud, man. Nice work.


----------



## Babs

bbfoto said:


> I have no doubt that you'd do a fantastic job!
> 
> 
> 
> But yeah, not having the surrounding area to mold to or as a reference makes it tough. I'm fairly particular regarding placement and aiming, too, so you pretty much nailed the issues with doing this "remotely".
> 
> 
> 
> If I lived closer I'd readily hand it off to you in a heartbeat.  I thought I'd have more time as I got older, but it's getting more and more difficult to find the time to do stuff like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, your car and setup are looking Fan-Freakin'-Tastic! Be proud, man. Nice work.



With enough pics it could be planned and done. Especially if you pin up the rings and sight/aim them. For sails it wouldn't be bad. 

With rings already glued on the next phase would be the fleece.. I use spandex because it's uber stretchy.. See early pics where I used purple spandex to create the tweeter shape. 

What model/year?

And thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Babs

So I lucked out. The mat fits under the left tweeter ok. Yay! About all I got done today besides a lot of listening and grinning. 


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Salami

I got an effin chub!!! That's ****ing awesome!!!


----------



## Babs

Salami said:


> I got an effin chub!!! That's ****ing awesome!!!


Awesome! My fab skills have reached effin chub level. Yes!!!!


----------



## knifedag007

I saw you pop up in the 8thcivic facebook page the other day. I was like, "Hey I know those speaker pods."
One day I will get started on mine. I wish I had a 4 door, there seems to be so much more room with blocking that small triangle window that we don't get with the coupe.


----------



## Babs

knifedag007 said:


> I saw you pop up in the 8thcivic facebook page the other day. I was like, "Hey I know those speaker pods."
> 
> One day I will get started on mine. I wish I had a 4 door, there seems to be so much more room with blocking that small triangle window that we don't get with the coupe.



Yeah the big windows can be both a blessing and a curse. In the coupe, you're options narrow a good bit so you pretty much do with what you have. But the job might probably physically end up being simpler because you're down to rings and fleecing instead of the fiberglass build up I did. Maybe a layer of FG sheet at the most or go like Bing and just reinforce from behind the rings and fleece for strength. 


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----------



## thereddestdog

Babs said:


> Problem is finding a spot to mount a phone mount from Rokform. There's no real estate.


Have you looked into Pro Clip USA?


----------



## Babs

thereddestdog said:


> Have you looked into Pro Clip USA?




Solution found at least temporarily which I think will be fine. I'll get a pic when I can. Just showed up in the mail. I mounted this thing from the same company (Rokform) to my emergency brake lever. Seems to work pretty well actually in a pinch. Plus it's the same twist-lock mount that's on the motorcycle mount I have.



https://www.rokform.com/collections/phone-bike-handlebar-mounts/products/bike-handlebar-mount



It's a bit of a stretch visually from normal eye level but I don't look at the phone at all except when stopped.. For commutes, I hit a playlist, kick it into random and go.










Pardon my dirty console.


----------



## optimaprime

Ohhhhh man damn those pillars are fantastic! The Sony looks perfect . Fantastic work! Those pillars with frogs chrome grill are perfection !


----------



## Babs

optimaprime said:


> Ohhhhh man damn those pillars are fantastic! The Sony looks perfect . Fantastic work! Those pillars with frogs chrome grill are perfection !



Thank you Sir 


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----------



## FunkPnut

I haven't had much time to frequent the boards much since last fall, but got caught up on your build.

First off, your head unit choices... you've got problems. lol, j/k I'm jealous.

Your pillars turned out fantastic!


----------



## Babs

FunkPnut said:


> I haven't had much time to frequent the boards much since last fall, but got caught up on your build.
> 
> 
> 
> First off, your head unit choices... you've got problems. lol, j/k I'm jealous.
> 
> 
> 
> Your pillars turned out fantastic!



LOL! I know right. This one is about a week old. Is there a better one? 

Thanks I've been really digging what these Frogs are putting out. It was too long in the making but I think this car has finally reached a potentially great place. The journey has been an education for sure. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Babs

Small big update. Tune redo. Holy shnikeys! to quote John Candy. She's sounding pretty decent. All the pain and suffering and sweat and glass and sanding and fun have culminated to this point. She's sounding pretty dang decent I think. Now to get many ears in here to hear it and see if she's legit. Looking forward to the NCSQ meet next weekend. If you can make it please evaluate my ride and let me know your thoughts. I'm digging it for sure so far. 


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----------



## Babs

Cardinal sin.. Console is out, panels are out. Less than a week before the NCSQ meet. Why you ask? For a single solitary run of bluejeans cable coax RCA from trunk to console just so we can play with the Fiio X5ii direct to DSP. Glutton for punishment. Hahaha. Note to all. When you MLV your floor, never ever ever ever ever run anything UNDER the MLV. EVER!!!


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----------



## High Resolution Audio

Babs said:


> Cardinal sin.. Console is out, panels are out. Less than a week before the NCSQ meet. Why you ask? For a single solitary run of bluejeans cable coax RCA from trunk to console just so we can play with the Fiio X5ii direct to DSP. Glutton for punishment. Hahaha. Note to all. When you MLV your floor, never ever ever ever ever run anything UNDER the MLV. EVER!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Did you glue it down? It sounds like a battle.


----------



## Babs

High Resolution Audio said:


> Did you glue it down? It sounds like a battle.



Nah just upset that I couldn't move stuff around like my Helix remote run. I probably thought I was cool by running it under the passenger seat under carpet and MLV. Didn't want to pull the seat so left it. 

Lesson being note to self: Run wiring so you can get to it minimally if you need. 

But no worries.. Got the coax in. Buttoning up everything now and testing. As many times as I've been down in this car, it's like clockwork. One thing about Hondas.. They snap together like legos. 


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----------



## JayinMI

Those pillars turned out awesome! Wish I could make it down to check them out. Some other time, I'm sure.

When you get the Songpal app up and running, can you take some video or pics? I'm considering doing the Sony and a tablet, but I'm curious about the UI.

If not that, then a Pioneer AVH-4200NEX.

Jay


----------



## Babs

JayinMI said:


> Those pillars turned out awesome! Wish I could make it down to check them out. Some other time, I'm sure.
> 
> 
> 
> When you get the Songpal app up and running, can you take some video or pics? I'm considering doing the Sony and a tablet, but I'm curious about the UI.
> 
> 
> 
> If not that, then a Pioneer AVH-4200NEX.
> 
> 
> 
> Jay



I'll tell ya now.. Songpal blows. Onkyo HF Player with phone connected is great. The Sony sounds awesome so hopefully Sony will improve the app if enough GS9 owners chime in and tell them. Maybe. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Babs

JayinMI said:


> Those pillars turned out awesome! Wish I could make it down to check them out. Some other time, I'm sure.
> 
> 
> 
> When you get the Songpal app up and running, can you take some video or pics? I'm considering doing the Sony and a tablet, but I'm curious about the UI.
> 
> 
> 
> If not that, then a Pioneer AVH-4200NEX.
> 
> 
> 
> Jay



I'll tell ya now.. Songpal blows. Onkyo HF Player with phone connected is great. The Sony sounds awesome so hopefully Sony will improve the app if enough GS9 owners chime in and tell them. Maybe. 



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----------



## bertholomey

Well, I can attest to the greatness of the sound from the Sony. Once the track is selected....bliss.....now, if you want to get to a track on another album.....that might take a bit  It will get sorted soon I'm sure - we will see what May brings. 

The pillars look even more extraordinary in person - the feel is like stock - excellent job flocking! I thought the tune was extremely good! All of that learning has been applied very well....it had all of the technical attributes that us want-to-be audiophiles want to hear......but it was also a fun, musical tune that brought out the emotion of the music (ok, I'll admit it......I cried......but it was about a wife loosing her husband oversees....and the small daughter asking, 'where is he?'......but the tune certainly helped convey that emotion). 

Awesome job brother.....we will need to meet up in Hickory again......after Ian's May 20th meet where I'll get my next demo


----------



## Babs

I know we're all sick of these silly pillars but figured since a couple guys with actual photography skills made the efforts of capturing in daylight, I should bring those here to share for posterity. Great shots, thanks guys..










































She's been such a fun little reliable car.. Now to give her some non-audio rewards by some maintenance things (clutch, brakes, tires, plugs, shocks etc) and some clean up (new paint, new wheel well lining, definitely new headlights etc)


----------



## beak81champ

Awesome pics, awesome install, and I bet awesome sound...great job, man!


----------



## 1FinalInstall

She sounded great brother, thanks for the listen.


----------



## Craig

Your car sounded awesome! Those pillars are sick!!

You probably don't need new headlights though. Look at getting one of the 3M headlight restore kits, they can be bought for about $10 on Amazon. Just throw the kit on a drill and follow the progression of the sandpaper. Instead of the 3M compound, I use Meguiar's PlastX on the polishing pad they provide. Looking to save ya some $$$ because new headlights are not cheap. 

You're not too far away from me in Charlotte, I don't think, so I'd certainly be willing to help out.


----------



## Babs

Craig said:


> Your car sounded awesome! Those pillars are sick!!
> 
> You probably don't need new headlights though. Look at getting one of the 3M headlight restore kits, they can be bought for about $10 on Amazon. Just throw the kit on a drill and follow the progression of the sandpaper. Instead of the 3M compound, I use Meguiar's PlastX on the polishing pad they provide. Looking to save ya some $$$ because new headlights are not cheap.
> 
> You're not too far away from me in Charlotte, I don't think, so I'd certainly be willing to help out.


Very cool idea actually.. I remember once reading up on using a buffer to restore them.. I should certainly give that a go. I've got a very neglected Porter Cable 7424 sitting on the shelf.


----------



## Craig

It's a fairly quick and easy process. There are a bunch of videos on YouTube that walk through the process. My biggest tips are to make sure to tape around the headlight and just take your time to make sure the drill is under control. When I did my first set of headlights on my brothers car, I kinda messed up the paint a little because I wasn't super careful. 

You'll definitely want something to protect the headlights after you sand them too. Once you sand them, you'll remove any UV protectant that remains on the headlight. There are some dedicated headlight coatings you can get, or you can use a wax or sealant. Clearcoating them is also an option.


----------



## Babs

I remember watching this one in depth.. Seemed to be the most thorough.. Basically a multi-stage wet-sand. Probably beats the heck out of sanding and rubbing doggone filler on a pillar. LOL!


----------



## Craig

Sanding by hand certainly works and is less risky. AMMO NYC has a great video as well. I take most of Ammo's videos as law for detailing, he's VERY good. 

Any sanding is better then trying to get the filler on the pillars perfect.


----------



## 1FinalInstall

My 2 cents, depending on how bad, wet sand using 1500 or 2000 grit & showroom shine first. Then buff with gritless rubbing compound first, then cleaner wax. Lastly, wax with any type of polish for a nice shine. Instead of painting/clear coating when completed, we found using either 3M or Xpel paint protection works best and can be replaced every 2 or so years if they become chipped. Rocks bounce off of the new PP, works great! I was in the exotic car business for 15 years and this is what we found works best. You should see the price of a Lamborghini Murcielago headlight....ugh!


----------



## Babs

1FinalInstall said:


> My 2 cents, depending on how bad, wet sand using 1500 or 2000 grit & showroom shine first. Then buff with gritless rubbing compound first, then cleaner wax. Lastly, wax with any type of polish for a nice shine. Instead of painting/clear coating when completed, we found using either 3M or Xpel paint protection works best and can be replaced every 2 or so years if they become chipped. Rocks bounce off of the new PP, works great! I was in the exotic car business for 15 years and this is what we found works best. You should see the price of a Lamborghini Murcielago headlight....ugh!


Good stuff.. I was even thinking a final run with some Menzerna final polish I have. Kinda putting a grocery list together for it.. It looks like that 3M kit might be rather designed for a drill.. Since I've already got some pads and back plate etc for the porter cable 7424 I might as well cobble together a "kit" of sorts.. I'll look later if even there are sandpaper disks that might be used on the porter cable backing plate.. I'll look and see if I have a smaller one. Fun little inventory project this evening I guess , along with packing for a two day business trip. Ugh! :mean:


----------



## thereddestdog

What do the A-pillars look like from the outside?


----------



## Babs

thereddestdog said:


> What do the A-pillars look like from the outside?


If you mean through the windshield, pretty much like stock except no window. Here's a side shot if you mean totally from the outside.


----------



## thereddestdog

Babs said:


> If you mean through the windshield, pretty much like stock except no window. Here's a side shot if you mean totally from the outside.


Oh so you tinted the window, yeah that works ?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## 1FinalInstall

Babs said:


> Good stuff.. I was even thinking a final run with some Menzerna final polish I have. Kinda putting a grocery list together for it.. It looks like that 3M kit might be rather designed for a drill.. Since I've already got some pads and back plate etc for the porter cable 7424 I might as well cobble together a "kit" of sorts.. I'll look later if even there are sandpaper disks that might be used on the porter cable backing plate.. I'll look and see if I have a smaller one. Fun little inventory project this evening I guess , along with packing for a two day business trip. Ugh! :mean:


IMO, I highly recommend wet sanding by hand. Something so delicate (sandpaper to headlights or paint) really is best by hand. You could apply 2% too much pressure and cost yourself a headlight. That plastic is super soft, it won't take much . If you're ever up my way (Winston Salem) PM me. I have a dual orbit polisher and everything we need and would love to help. It would take us an hour.


----------



## Babs

1FinalInstall said:


> IMO, I highly recommend wet sanding by hand. Something so delicate (sandpaper to headlights or paint) really is best by hand. You could apply 2% too much pressure and cost yourself a headlight. That plastic is super soft, it won't take much . If you're ever up my way (Winston Salem) PM me. I have a dual orbit polisher and everything we need and would love to help. It would take us an hour.



Thank you Sir. Certainly from all I've watched it looks like a delicate touch, water and patience. 


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----------



## Babs

thereddestdog said:


> Oh so you tinted the window, yeah that works
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk



Tinted.. And black CCF against the glass.









And bird poop on the outside to complete the masterpiece. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Darkrider

With the bird poop there you don't even see the window.......LOL!

I really appreciated how your pillars did not negatively effect your forward vision in the slightest. Those darn AudioFrog drivers are just voodoo.


----------



## Babs

Darkrider said:


> With the bird poop there you don't even see the window.......LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> I really appreciated how your pillars did not negatively effect your forward vision in the slightest. Those darn AudioFrog drivers are just voodoo.



Thanks man. You wouldn't believe some ideas I've been having though lately. Did ya hear those coaxial Illusions in Mr Kiser's Audi? LOL. I have to refrain from looking at the extra pillars in my garage floor. Hahahaha. Nooooooooo!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## ARCuhTEK

Scott....just read all 25 pages. Holy wow. What a great job and your gear is awesome! Those pillars are....no words. If you are a noob, I am in awe.

Tips hat...

KG


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> Scott....just read all 25 pages. Holy wow. What a great job and your gear is awesome! Those pillars are....no words. If you are a noob, I am in awe.
> 
> 
> 
> Tips hat...
> 
> 
> 
> KG



Thank you Sir! Yep this little Honda has been a fun learner car for sure. Sounding pretty decent now I think. There's some tuning items to master but it's coming along ok. About the only place I could do any further upgrade might be in the amp department.. I still think Zapco Z-LX maybe or Gordon's new line, though I guarantee those won't be inexpensive by any means. 

I still have a few wanna-do items like work in/on the doors to really take as much of the doors out of the equation so midbass drivers can shine a bit more. Little stuff. I'm not ruling out something crazy like some free-air "pods" I've seen Bing (SimplicityinSound) do in some Gti builds in here, or get really silly and do an enclosure ala Gary Summers. That's just amazing. 

I have a Helix Director coming actually so I'll be looking into doing some cool fabrication for that. That adds a small level of complexity upfront but that'll be nice for easy connectivity to the DSP, easy switching between sources (GS9 or Fiio coaxial SPDIF), and volume control. Looking at eBay Civic Si Sedan center console parts now actually. Might consider the flip-down arm rest for fab'ing in the Director. 

By the time I'm done with this silly car it'll be time for a new motor.. I'm thinking cams and forced induction. Hahaha 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## ARCuhTEK

Funny you mention the Director. I just asked you about it in my Bot One.1 post a few seconds ago because I did not see it in your install. Now I see where you are with it.

What did you do with the Sony HU? I could see a single DIN over the Director in a Double DIN opening with a custom face/cover plate.

I am curious if my assumption that the Director size is much larger than the Bit One DRC remote is correct. 

One another subject.....the in dash ipad/mini ipad has had the attention of the back burner of my brain for a few years. I wish I had the work shop to do some custom work that I can dream up in my head. I would not mind to have a blank cover plate that one could push...and the cover plate moves out, flips 180 and then tucks back in revealing the ipad. Heck, with the right set up if might only have to rotate 180 with no other action necessary. Sigh....

How are you liking the Audiofrogs?


----------



## JayinMI

Having worked with both, yes the Director is MUCH larger than the DRC for the Bitone. Like maybe 2-3 times larger. And the couple I've seen were a little glitchy. 

Jay


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> Funny you mention the Director. I just asked you about it in my Bot One.1 post a few seconds ago because I did not see it in your install. Now I see where you are with it.
> 
> 
> 
> What did you do with the Sony HU? I could see a single DIN over the Director in a Double DIN opening with a custom face/cover plate.
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious if my assumption that the Director size is much larger than the Bit One DRC remote is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> One another subject.....the in dash ipad/mini ipad has had the attention of the back burner of my brain for a few years. I wish I had the work shop to do some custom work that I can dream up in my head. I would not mind to have a blank cover plate that one could push...and the cover plate moves out, flips 180 and then tucks back in revealing the ipad. Heck, with the right set up if might only have to rotate 180 with no other action necessary. Sigh....
> 
> 
> 
> How are you liking the Audiofrogs?



Answered the Director question in your thread. Don't have it yet. Just the Sony head unit. It is a good bit larger than the Audison controller. 

Love the frogs. Good drivers. 

Yeah a tablet dash build would be really cool. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bertholomey

JayinMI said:


> Having worked with both, yes the Director is MUCH larger than the DRC for the Bitone. Like maybe 2-3 times larger. And the couple I've seen were a little glitchy.
> 
> 
> 
> Jay




My experience with the Director has been very good - I like the single volume control, source control, and preset selection. I think it is pretty groovy


----------



## JayinMI

We had a couple cars at the last shop that kept flipping out. I think one was install-related (not me) and the others were because we were using the old software. If they've worked solid for you, I'm happy to hear it, I'm in the market for a new processor. I want something with parametric options.

Jay


----------



## bertholomey

Love the Helix Pro2 + Director - great software, flexible tuning options, and great support from the folks at Hybrid.


----------



## Babs

So now rolling around ideas where to put this little goodie. 
This car won't make it easy for sure. Situation = normal. 














































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----------



## JayinMI

I think I like behind the shifter because the shifter won't be in your way as much while driving if you adjust the volume. 

That's one thing I like about the Mosconi stuff...the RC's (I *believe* the Mini and the full size) are programmable to a wireless remote and come setup to run with an Alpine RUE-4202.

Does the Director have this option?

Jay


----------



## Babs

JayinMI said:


> I think I like behind the shifter because the shifter won't be in your way as much while driving if you adjust the volume.
> 
> 
> 
> That's one thing I like about the Mosconi stuff...the RC's (I *believe* the Mini and the full size) are programmable to a wireless remote and come setup to run with an Alpine RUE-4202.
> 
> 
> 
> Does the Director have this option?
> 
> 
> 
> Jay



Nope the Director is its own thing. Nowhere near that fancy. 

Yeah if I could make it work in that spot behind the shifter without interference from the parking brake, and if I could keep from spilling coffee on the silly thing since it's right against the cup holders, it might work. 

Not much room around it for any kind of custom bezel of sorts there. Would have to pretty much be a stand alone mount. And I'd have to drill through the console to wire it up. Not terribly fond of that idea but all in the name of SQ fun right? Haha. I guess if I reversed it down the road I could cover up the hole in the little coin pocket area with felt or something. 











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## ARCuhTEK

Any way to mount it in what appears to be the center storage area? Center storage area being the area with the roll back cover. Maybe build small pedestal (or brackets) to keep it as high as possible but low enough yo avoid conflict with the rolling/sliding cover? Might be nice way to conceal it out of sight when car is unoccupied.


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> Any way to mount it in what appears to be the center storage area? Center storage area being the area with the roll back cover. Maybe build small pedestal (or brackets) to keep it as high as possible but low enough yo avoid conflict with the rolling/sliding cover? Might be nice way to conceal it out of sight when car is unoccupied.



That's a cup holder unfortunately and a good one. It's typically open. 


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## ErinH

Scott, what about the little pocket area on the left side of the dash? It's not necessarily close but I believe it's closer than the pocket under the headunit. 

I personally wouldn't go that route just because it wouldn't be a good fit for me. But just tossing it out there in case it's something you might be more fond of.


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> Scott, what about the little pocket area on the left side of the dash? It's not necessarily close but I believe it's closer than the pocket under the headunit.
> 
> 
> 
> I personally wouldn't go that route just because it wouldn't be a good fit for me. But just tossing it out there in case it's something you might be more fond of.



Ya know I thought briefly about that. Typically that area is pretty much unused except for when I threw my garage opener in there. Typically driving there's left hand on wheel, right on or near shifter, but that area is certainly worth consideration. 


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## Babs

Because I'm a glutton for punishment, director installation. 































So rolling around ideas, decided the spot aft the gear shifter where the little coin pocket is would be best. Got to thinking, which is dangerous.. What if I flushed it in there, would it work? So.....










With some disassembly I ended up here..








































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## oabeieo

Dang......director and all now nice! 

Be careful of the tiny orange wire (I'm sure you've heard)

If that thing breaks life sucks. I broke one installing one. Cable was junk after that. 
Idk why they did that......


----------



## 1FinalInstall

Nice!


----------



## Babs

Now to tear down again, remove useless toslink, run wire for the Helix Director, double check some stuff, remove old Helix 2-knob remote, button up and tune. 

I had tested the Director and man this thing is slick. Going to run two sources, the Sony GS9 maxed using Helix for volume, and a Fiio X5ii straight SPDIF coaxial, thank you Jason. Should be pretty slick. 


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## Babs

oabeieo said:


> Dang......director and all now nice!
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful of the tiny orange wire (I'm sure you've heard)
> 
> 
> 
> If that thing breaks life sucks. I broke one installing one. Cable was junk after that.
> 
> Idk why they did that......



Ruh Roh Shaggy! No I've not read of it. Note to self.. Gentle as heck on that wire and strain relief. Once she's in should be good. 

Edit: Took a look yeah there's a strain relief on the hot, ground and dimmer but I can tell you want to be easy with that plug end of the cable. $20 says it'd be dang hard to get a replacement I bet. Maybe not. 

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## ARCuhTEK

Babs said:


> Fiio X5ii


 Very nice! What is a good source for music for downloading to that device?


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> Very nice! What is a good source for music for downloading to that device?


Yeah I got the X5ii from Bertholomy who got a new 3rd gen. They're snazzy players for the money I think and can drive phones well, though I've not gotten that far yet. Contemplating some good custom in-ears. Heard Jason's 64audio phones. Out of this world for portable hifi. The ability to send SPDIF was the cool thing I liked. Feed the Helix well. Tested it and while hard pressed to tell a difference over the ESS Sabre loaded Sony, it does very very well. Nice jog wheel also. I dig it over the 3rd gen even. 

About anywhere but I'm kinda new to the high-res stuff. HDTracks I think is a biggie. Otherwise CD-quality 16/44.1 stuff is probably available about anywhere such as Amazon. iTunes still isn't with the program unless you're ok with lossy stuff. Saw a thread in here recently on the topic but don't have the link. 


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## ARCuhTEK

Cool, thanks. It is just a matter of time before lossless (HD in general) is how all music is released. Bandwidth and download speed is the primary reason we ever went to compressed anyway. That having been said, I am new to the arena of sources for it. I look forward to diving in a wee bit.


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> Cool, thanks. It is just a matter of time before lossless (HD in general) is how all music is released. Bandwidth and download speed is the primary reason we ever went to compressed anyway. That having been said, I am new to the arena of sources for it. I look forward to diving in a wee bit.



From all I've gathered in terms of car head units (currently available) there's the Sony GS9, and everyone else. It's a beast. However.. A tablet build into a USB streaming card in a Helix DSP would be stellar.. Or leave the dash alone and run your tunes on the side with a Fiio coaxial leaving the OEM head unit alone as an "auxiliary". It does complicate the system though by need of a DSP controller like this Director I'm running. 


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## bbfoto

Looks great, Scott. That spot was made for the Director (lucky you!). 

Get a good quality 75-Ohm Shielded Coaxial Cable with matching 75-Ohm Canare RCAP crimp-on RCA plugs. Yes, even for digital, a good, properly-spec'd cable can make a difference. Custom length, made-to-order cables that won't break the bank are available at *BlueJeans Cable*

Try to keep it as short as possible, and try to avoid routing close to any RFI/EMI noise sources such as Class D amps or the vehicle's ECM/computer modules or fuel pump, while making sure that you have plenty of length for convenient use. The good coax cables are a bit stiff or rigid, but you should have the short FiiO Coaxial adapter cable for some flexibility.


----------



## bbfoto

ARCuhTEK said:


> Very nice! What is a good source for music for downloading to that device?


Here's a Link to a recent thread on the subject: 

*So where do you (legally) even download music anymore?*


----------



## Babs

bbfoto said:


> Here's a Link to a recent thread on the subject:
> 
> *So where do you (legally) even download music anymore?*


That's the one! Thanks! 



bbfoto said:


> Looks great, Scott. That spot was made for the Director (lucky you!).
> 
> Get a good quality 75-Ohm Shielded Coaxial Cable with matching 75-Ohm Canare RCAP crimp-on RCA plugs. Yes, even for digital, a good, properly-spec'd cable can make a difference. Custom length, made-to-order cables that won't break the bank are available at *BlueJeans Cable*
> 
> Try to keep it as short as possible, and try to avoid routing close to any RFI/EMI noise sources such as Class D amps or the vehicle's ECM/computer modules or fuel pump, while making sure that you have plenty of length for convenient use. The good coax cables are a bit stiff or rigid, but you should have the short FiiO Coaxial adapter cable for some flexibility.


Certainly.. Picked up a length of Belden from Blue Jeans Cable. Nice stuff! It's actually already run, yay.. One less thing. Did that before the last NCSQ meet. 

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm
And yes it is stiff.. Seriously nice connectors.









I have the little short provided Fiio coax adapter, and picked up the 3-footer. I know Jason likes the short one. Haven't totally hashed out where I'd mount the Fiio, but thinking if I attach the Rokform universal adapter to the back of the Fiio's leather case, it can go right where the phone mount is, on the brake lever... For lack of a cleaner solution. The joy of little cars.

But as far as the coax cable goes, I'd say it does it's job pretty nicely, even though I have to use a male/male adapter with the Fiio cable. Zero noise, and if there's jitter, I don't hear it. I can say I believe it's an upgrade over toslink.. I'm pretty much done with optical.


----------



## beak81champ

Wow man! You're now making quick work of these super cool new pieces, like the a pillars made you fearless! I'm so totally jealous! Keep it rockin brother!


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## Babs

beak81champ said:


> Wow man! You're now making quick work of these super cool new pieces, like the a pillars made you fearless! I'm so totally jealous! Keep it rockin brother!


Haha! Thanks man. Dunno how fearless yet.. Still too scared to get silly with something like kick-panels just because I know the job would make me cry for months probably like the IB wall and pillars did because I've simply never attempted it. Captainobvious and Erin might reply though "All the more reason to do them kicks! Step off into the tall grass and run with the big dogs!".  But I'm resistant. So I've got ideas yet to try in doors first before I just count them out as a spot for the midbass drivers.


----------



## Babs

The TM's were certainly fun.. Out they go to a fun new build. More fun to be had if I stay in the doors. While I remain reluctant to consider a kick panel build due to space and complexity, I will pop the kick panels off and take a hard look. It would be nice to NOT have to cut a hole in metal parts. Also there are some harness and hood release stuff that would have to move. Easy stuff I'm sure for you guys who've done kick builds. For now I'm concentrating on an idea for the new midbass drivers in doors. But keeping options open. 


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## naiku

Babs said:


> [For now I'm concentrating on an idea for the new midbass drivers in doors.


Not sure if I missed it, but what are you replacing the TMs with? 

I hear you on kick panels, I run the mids in mine, so just a little pair of RS75 and even that with literally just cutting a hole for the grill it was not easy due to the number of wiring harness that are located in that area.


----------



## Babs

naiku said:


> Not sure if I missed it, but what are you replacing the TMs with?
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you on kick panels, I run the mids in mine, so just a little pair of RS75 and even that with literally just cutting a hole for the grill it was not easy due to the number of wiring harness that are located in that area.



Planning on a full frog frontstage.. Say that five times fast. Hehe  So GB60's rounding out the midbass. Yeah the kick construction part doesn't scare me. That actually strikes me as fun. Investigating the way to do it. Would be lovely to do it sealed but that may or may not be feasible as the froggies need about .2 cubic feet of air-space at a bare minimum. 


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## naiku

Nice.


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## Babs

Not a whole lot to show since my garage time this weekend was on the bike. Did at least get the wiring cleaned up and director and coax RCA wire run. And put the console back together. Struggled with USB hookup then remembered Audiotec-Fischer was nice enough to provide a right-angle USB cable for a reason. 


















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## Chris Farley

Such an inspiring thread!


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## Babs

Fun today with cutting Owens Corning 703. Seeing how far I can take a lowly inferior plebeian door build. 








Will be sealed in .5 mil plastic with packing tape, and attached to outer door skin with foil tape. We shall see. Just finished cutting mirror image for passenger door. 


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## Babs

Initial fitment pretty decent and as thick as I can and keep window clearance with full coverage. Now to tape it into place with foil tape. 


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## dgage

That may be a great idea acoustically but I think that is a very bad idea hygroscopically. That 703 will absorb water and cause mildew problems as probably rust. You'd be better of getting something closer to neoprene that doesn't hold water. Not as good sonically but much better for the environment inside your door. Just my opinion.


----------



## naiku

That's why you wrap it in the plastic, there is a recent thread on here with a video of someone doing the same thing. I am hoping to try it as well shortly, just need to find somewhere selling a single tile!

The holes in my door are much smaller though, so it may be more of a pain in the butt than I want to deal with.


----------



## dgage

Did they measure the impact the plastic had on the 703s absorption? My guess is plastic covered OC703 might be (heavily) impacted sonically. And I use OC703 for my home theater treatments so I know it can help but I'm sure plastic wrap will impact that absorption capability.

I still say that unless the OC703 is completely wrapped and sealed, it will absorb water. Any sort of holes or small rips in the plastic will allow air infiltration, which will result in mold and mildew. 

For me, I'd strongly suggest another material that won't absorb water, that has no chance to absorb water.


----------



## Babs

dgage said:


> Did they measure the impact the plastic had on the 703s absorption? My guess is plastic covered OC703 might be (heavily) impacted sonically. And I use OC703 for my home theater treatments so I know it can help but I'm sure plastic wrap will impact that absorption capability.
> 
> 
> 
> I still say that unless the OC703 is completely wrapped and sealed, it will absorb water. Any sort of holes or small rips in the plastic will allow air infiltration, which will result in mold and mildew.
> 
> 
> 
> For me, I'd strongly suggest another material that won't absorb water, that has no chance to absorb water.



Plastic will be reflective of high frequencies but that won't matter low-passed at 350hz. Supposedly will actually assist slightly for midbass absorption. Yep they're all well sealed for moisture barrier. 


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## oabeieo

I got a guy that wants to do an IB setup.

I'm thinking copy what you did in a TL. 

How does it hold up?


----------



## Mic10is

Look for pics of or contact Kirk Profit about IB in TL. How did pretty ok 




oabeieo said:


> I got a guy that wants to do an IB setup.
> 
> I'm thinking copy what you did in a TL.
> 
> How does it hold up?


----------



## Babs

Mic10is said:


> Look for pics of or contact Kirk Profit about IB in TL. How did pretty ok


This one?
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/119229-2005-acura-tl-de-construction-re-construction-2.html

Is this Bess's car now? If so I heard it at Finals last year.. I still cannot put words to it other than I had no idea a car could be made to do what it does.


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## Babs

A little work on the doors today. Finally sealing up...

Chipboard rough template..


















.020 aluminum sheet..









For lack of the best tool for cutting, doing it in two pieces..









Covered in CLD on backside and attached..









CLD to hold..









CCF on for the smaller holes.. Gaffer's tape helps.











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## Babs

Driver door done. No sealing this any better if I tried I'd say. Very likely overkill but goal was see how far I could take these doors. 











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## oabeieo

Babs said:


> This one?
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/119229-2005-acura-tl-de-construction-re-construction-2.html
> 
> Is this Bess's car now? If so I heard it at Finals last year.. I still cannot put words to it other than I had no idea a car could be made to do what it does.






Mic10is said:


> Look for pics of or contact Kirk Profit about IB in TL. How did pretty ok




Oh thanks guys! Yeah that's quite the build indeed. 
That's a little more than I was planning to do but after reading a bit it makes a lot of sence to do it that way in that car. (I need to go metal shopping) 

Yeah I start it next week. Got some excellent ideas now


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## bbfoto

Babs said:


> Driver door done. No sealing this any better if I tried I'd say. Very likely overkill but goal was see how far I could take these doors.


Nice, Scott! That should make a substantial difference. :thumbsup:

.


----------



## ARCuhTEK

Quick question. I know you tossed the Toslink in favor of the digital coax....but I also thought you had the Helix DSP.2.... Did you have to switch to the Mk2 in order to go coax input? I am trying to sort through which Helix to get, now that I have tossed my Bit One out the window. I wanted to have the option to run coax also...kinda liking the Fiio route.

Thanks.


----------



## Truthunter

Nice work on the doors Scott:thumbsup: Looking forward to hearing your feedback on the difference it makes...


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> Quick question. I know you tossed the Toslink in favor of the digital coax....but I also thought you had the Helix DSP.2.... Did you have to switch to the Mk2 in order to go coax input? I am trying to sort through which Helix to get, now that I have tossed my Bit One out the window. I wanted to have the option to run coax also...kinda liking the Fiio route.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I had a 1st gen DSP. Didn't upgrade for anything that had to do with the digital inputs. I actually at the time wanted a HEC expansion slot, but also the ADC DSP and DAC/op amp updates in the Pro-2. The Pro-2 is as good as it gets under the Helix brand, though the new Brax DSP is on a whole other level. With price to match. So in a reasonably good DSP the Pro-2 is best as it gets IMO. Any of the Helix DSP's are very capable though and the software is the same.. Excellent. 


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## Babs

bbfoto said:


> Nice, Scott! That should make a substantial difference. :thumbsup:
> 
> .


That will be the $40 question.. How much of a difference? Won't know until I get the mids mounted and fired up. I suspect and hope it'll be significant in clarity and coherence, and measurable in better phase and frequency response.


----------



## Babs

Getting so close I can almost hear them. Beautiful part about HDPE.. Re-usable. Just drill new holes and add new T-nuts for mounting holes. Since these drivers are a tad smaller, they'll have plenty of ID on the rings for air flow also. Can't wait to see how this turns out in the 70-350hz range. 



























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## Babs

Somebody come clean up this mess and wrap this up will ya! LOL










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## cmusic

Babs said:


> Somebody come clean up this mess and wrap this up will ya! LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Reminds me of when I am in the install process!! I once drove around in a 3 month old new car with only the dash and drivers seat installed for about 4 weeks while I laid sound damping materials and ran wiring. I got a lot of funny looks from fast food workers in the drive through lanes!


----------



## Babs

cmusic said:


> Reminds me of when I am in the install process!! I once drove around in a 3 month old new car with only the dash and drivers seat installed for about 4 weeks while I laid sound damping materials and ran wiring. I got a lot of funny looks from fast food workers in the drive through lanes!



I always get a week of "new car" when this one is back together because minor stuff like this puts me in the truck as daily driver for a month or longer while it sits. Ready to be done done done. 


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## Babs

Not a whole lot to report other than the door work hugely paid off. Much much less bloat, and weird backwave-related phase anomalies as I'm seeing in the Transfer Function tool and hearing. And the Frogs are really boogying. 

Above is a first daylight shot finally of the Director install. Works great. 


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----------



## ARCuhTEK

Babs said:


> Somebody come clean up this mess and wrap this up will ya! LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


For a second I thought this was a picture of my truck...lmao! But for real...the truck has looked this for about 2 months. I cleaned the hell out of it in preparation for "just a few things" and then it all went south. So, I live in a sea of tools in the passenger side until I can get a real swatch of time to dedicate to reinstalling.

Those AFs look great...jelly.


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> For a second I thought this was a picture of my truck...lmao! But for real...the truck has looked this for about 2 months. I cleaned the hell out of it in preparation for "just a few things" and then it all went south. So, I live in a sea of tools in the passenger side until I can get a real swatch of time to dedicate to reinstalling.
> 
> 
> 
> Those AFs look great...jelly.













Had no idea the Helix was getting that kind of voltage driving. You'd think the XD's would have buku output. 



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## ARCuhTEK

Question: Do you tweak the Director a lot while driving? I am trying to decide where to mount mine and I have a couple of options. One option is in an overhead bin storage compartment. It is for sunglasses but I do not use it. It is slightly larger than the Director and with a little magic I might be able to mount it and make it look (sorta) OEM. The OEM bin flips down when you need access....so I would have to open it each time I need to acess the Director. I do not mind it being in the down position while sitting still and tuning, nor do I mind an occasional flip down to adjust or change a setting. However, I cannot leave it down as it is in direct conflict with my line of sight to the rearview mirror. Based on how much I used (or rather did not use) the Bit One DRC, I think I am okay with it in that compartment. I used DRC as a main volume knob (among a few other things), but I also I had the option to just dial down the volume on the HU. I could see me using the Director just the same if I did not want to be bothered with flipping the compartment down. I can always reset the HU volume back to the 75-80% max volume when I am sitting still. My favorite part of this location is that when in closed position, no one can see it. I prefer not to give away information to snooping eyes so as to not encourage people who might want to break into a car.

Thanks.


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> Question: Do you tweak the Director a lot while driving? I am trying to decide where to mount mine and I have a couple of options. One option is in an overhead bin storage compartment. It is for sunglasses but I do not use it. It is slightly larger than the Director and with a little magic I might be able to mount it and make it look (sorta) OEM. The OEM bin flips down when you need access....so I would have to open it each time I need to acess the Director. I do not mind it being in the down position while sitting still and tuning, nor do I mind an occasional flip down to adjust or change a setting. However, I cannot leave it down as it is in direct conflict with my line of sight to the rearview mirror. Based on how much I used (or rather did not use) the Bit One DRC, I think I am okay with it in that compartment. I used DRC as a main volume knob (among a few other things), but I also I had the option to just dial down the volume on the HU. I could see me using the Director just the same if I did not want to be bothered with flipping the compartment down. I can always reset the HU volume back to the 75-80% max volume when I am sitting still. My favorite part of this location is that when in closed position, no one can see it. I prefer not to give away information to snooping eyes so as to not encourage people who might want to break into a car.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I actually use it for volume control so yeah somewhat. It's not the best visibility where it's located but easy reach for the knob. 


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## ARCuhTEK

Babs said:


> I actually use it for volume control so yeah somewhat. It's not the best visibility where it's located but easy reach for the knob.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I wish there was a way to rotate the Director, kind of like you can rotate an iPad for any direction viewing. I have a great place for it if the knob were on the right of the screen.

Thanks.


----------



## JayinMI

The Arc Audio PS8 does that.


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> I wish there was a way to rotate the Director, kind of like you can rotate an iPad for any direction viewing. I have a great place for it if the knob were on the right of the screen.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Look again at mine. Knob is on the right. You can flip the screen in menu settings. 


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## ARCuhTEK

Babs said:


> Look again at mine. Knob is on the right. You can flip the screen in menu settings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Holy chit you just made my day...Obviously I have not powered mine up yet....two more weeks to go. Much happier now!


----------



## JayinMI

When I saw that the Arc piece could do that, I was like "Great idea. Why isn't everyone doing this?" Cool that the Helix can too.


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> Holy chit you just made my day...Obviously I have not powered mine up yet....two more weeks to go. Much happier now!





JayinMI said:


> When I saw that the Arc piece could do that, I was like "Great idea. Why isn't everyone doing this?" Cool that the Helix can too.



Yep. Remember reading that long ago somewhere. Yeah the Director is a neat tool. I'll bet there's some surprises I've not yet discovered. 

Funny as long as I've wanted one of these, I'm more excited about the silly Focusrite iTrack Dock I picked up. Spent too much money yesterday on patch cable and adapter stuff. Transfer Function is the real deal for iOS on a budget. 

No more bitching about not having this or that cable for a reference loop. 















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## ARCuhTEK

Transfer Function. Are you referring to this or something similar? 

Transfer Function | Studio Six Digital

Every time I think I am up with you on the car audio stuff, you throw a curve ball at me.... You're making me run when I thought I could just walk!! LOL


----------



## ARCuhTEK

By the way Scott...if you ever need cables, adapters fuses distro blocks, clamps...etc. I have a BNIB inventory that you are welcome to for free. Just shoot me a line for what you think you need and I will look through the stock. It is easily accessible so I can check pretty quick.


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> Transfer Function. Are you referring to this or something similar?
> 
> 
> 
> Transfer Function | Studio Six Digital
> 
> 
> 
> Every time I think I am up with you on the car audio stuff, you throw a curve ball at me.... You're making me run when I thought I could just walk!! LOL



That's the one.. Started a thread on it. The one thing it doesn't do well is impulse response. Room EQ Wizard does just not in real-time. 


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## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> By the way Scott...if you ever need cables, adapters fuses distro blocks, clamps...etc. I have a BNIB inventory that you are welcome to for free. Just shoot me a line for what you think you need and I will look through the stock. It is easily accessible so I can check pretty quick.



Thanks. Wow! I may take you up on that. 


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## ARCuhTEK

As an example...and dont ask me why...but I ended up with about 10 pairs of these...


----------



## Babs

ARCuhTEK said:


> As an example...and dont ask me why...but I ended up with about 10 pairs of these...



Oh wow. I had a couple of them and never could figure out what the heck you could attach that fat ring terminal to. 

One thing I've been considering is if I upgrade amps I've got two choices.. Run a single 1/0 to replace the 4awg from battery.. Or another 4awg maybe. Stuff like maybe amps in the realm of Zapco Z-LX or Mosconi possibly. Or Revelation Audio when Gordon and Matt get those hopping.. Granted the pricing on those would justify a new car I bet. However I predict they'll become quickly the pinnacle of car SQ amps. I'm already smitten by that idea though as I know Matt, and know of Gordon (The Amp Doctor). That alone gives me reason to support their efforts. Matt is solid as a pound. 

But I digress.. I'd likely need new terminals and fused distro's etc. I'm actually running a 2-output distro at the battery for alternator in 4awg, and system out 4awg so both are fused. Except the output is only 4awg. Terminals are starting to show some wear also. 


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## ARCuhTEK

Babs said:


> Oh wow. I had a couple of them and never could figure out what the heck you could attach that fat ring terminal to.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I have a battery post that these can slide onto and then bolt down. But in the end, I changed battery terminal set up altogether. At the time of ordering, I was doing two builds at one time (one for friend). I think the real answer is that it was my original plan to run every power and ground wire for each amp, all the way to the battery. To be brutally honest, I had no idea about distro blocks that one might mount in the trunk. Once I discovered those, the Knus were DOA.


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## Babs

My crazy battery setup. Definitely no install competition winner. Would have been better to remove the factory positive stuff or upgrade it better. I suppose one is the OEM alt lead and other is fuse box (looks like 8awg at the most, possibly 10awg). So I just big-3'd or rather big-4'd around them. 


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## Babs

It’s been a while. I still have this old car but she’s sitting in the garage for me to finally get this “little” amp swap done. 

XD’s are out. I need to list them.. Two 1000/5v2’s. In going is a Z150.6-LX and Z400.2-LX. All else the same. Helix Pro-2, front stage unchanged, subs unchanged. Additionally, the 4awg run had to be upgraded so the battery has changed with a Stinger breaker, Knu terminals and 1/0 run to the trunk. An additional Kinetik AGM battery in trunk, pigtailed and fused off a new Audison combo distribution block. I have a Sparked Innovations relay box coming for relayed turn on leads etc because I’m thinking fans for this will be necessary. 

I’ve embarked on an ambitious false floor over a spare tire keeping access to the spare by hinging the center amp area. Easily the biggest attempt by this DIY’er for sure. Center area will rest on two side pieces held by two 1/4” rivnuts each. I’ll likely secure the center down to those sides by a couple thumbscrews so it will lift on rear hinges in case of needing the spare tire. 

I plan on a three section top cover held by magnets, and I would like to incorporate some fans somehow to move air through the amp area as I imagine these Z-LX Zapco’s may not care for an enclosed space. Maybe a perf metal top cover under carpet to vent heat. 

I imagine I bit off a lot with this design, but the amps were too large for the spare tire area.

Some teaser shots:











































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## Babs

This thing.. A must have. I finally broke down and got one. 









An older shot in the car for reference:










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## Truthunter




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## bertholomey

I’m really looking forward to seeing the updates and especially getting a demo at our mini-meet that we are going to have soon 


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## tonynca

That's looking real good.


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## Zippy

Some quality components going into that amp rack. Can’t wait to see it completed.


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## Babs

Truthunter said:


>



 That’s so for the win! Yep! He lives!!!!


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## Chris12

Looking good!

Curious to see if you perceive any sonic difference(s) between the JL XD’s and the Zapco’s.

Did you do a “big 3 upgrade”? I’m thinking of upgrading (at least) my under-hood grounds in the future.

Also - how’s the quality of the knu battery terminals? I’m thinking of upgrading to their (knu) fused + terminal and matching (-) terminal at some point.


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## bbfoto

Looks great so far, Scott! Nice gear choices and glad to see that you're still in pursuit of the essS Quues. 

And those little DeWalt jobsite tablesaws are the shizznit. :thumbsup:


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## BigAl205

Babs said:


> XD’s are out. I need to list them.. Two 1000/5v2’s.


I might be interested in those


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## casey

false floor is coming out nicely man! Would love to hear the setup as its been a while (NVX 2"/sundown 10" long)


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## Babs

casey said:


> false floor is coming out nicely man! Would love to hear the setup as its been a while (NVX 2"/sundown 10" long)



Wow yeah that’s going back a minute for sure. 


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## beak81champ

Great to see you’re still alive, brother! Looking forward to this, as I may be doing the same thing shortly! If those hinges don’t work as well as you want, you might try a piano hinge on that piece (just a suggestion). Looks awesome brother!


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## LBaudio

looking good,...more pics, more pics!


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## JayinMI

I have a little folding Ryobi table saw. I've had it for about 10 years now, and I upgraded the blade when I first bought it, and it still cuts better than the Delta at work. 

Coming along great, Scott. This what you're doing with all the energy you have after all the crossfit? lol

Jay


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## mumbles

Looking forward to seeing & hearing this at BigAls GTG in Nov...


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## Babs

Small update. This little doodad arrived. Neat device.. It’s actually a little box with four fused relays switched by any switched 12v inputs such as head unit remote or a toggle switch etc. Was thinking this would facilitate fans nicely. 

https://m.facebook.com/sparkedinnovations/


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## Jscoyne2

Babs said:


> Small update. This little doodad arrived. Neat device.. It’s actually a little box with four fused relays switched by any switched 12v inputs such as head unit remote or a toggle switch etc. Was thinking this would facilitate fans nicely.
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/sparkedinnovations/
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Need

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## Babs

So I finally broke down and did a thing today.. Sometimes the work is on tools themselves. Had a Bench Dog router plate but nothing to put it in. Acquired a work table. 



































































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## BigAl205

You need one of these also https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HPYOJ...colid=KNGVZPPBFY5G&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


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## Jscoyne2

BigAl205 said:


> You need one of these also https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HPYOJ...colid=KNGVZPPBFY5G&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


I believe Car audio fabrication said its better to use this with that particular template otherwise it'll damage it 

https://www.mobilesolutions-usa.com/product-page/square-bearing-flush-trim-bit-1-2-2-flute-1-2-shank


You can see him use it if u youtube. Caf false floor


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## Babs

Yep a spiral flush trim bit is next on the list. The square bearing bit is preferred yes for the adjustable curve so it doesn’t eat up the curve template. For general flush trimming though the spiral bit is a must. I’ll be picking on up for sure. Also for making flush inset pieces the rabbet set with different size bearings would be a good thing as well. Down the routing rabbet hole I go. LOL


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## WhereAmEye?

I can’t remember where you’re from but I would suggest going to klingspor and checking out their massive selection of bits. I know who makes them and can vouch for their integrity 

But beware, I wouldn’t bring a credit card there. It’s a very dangerous place lol. 


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## BigAl205

Jscoyne2 said:


> I believe Car audio fabrication said its better to use this with that particular template otherwise it'll damage it
> 
> https://www.mobilesolutions-usa.com/product-page/square-bearing-flush-trim-bit-1-2-2-flute-1-2-shank
> 
> 
> You can see him use it if u youtube. Caf false floor
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


I din't mean to imply using it on that flex template, I just meant in general.


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## Babs

WhereAmEye? said:


> I can’t remember where you’re from but I would suggest going to klingspor and checking out their massive selection of bits. I know who makes them and can vouch for their integrity
> 
> But beware, I wouldn’t bring a credit card there. It’s a very dangerous place lol.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, I've got a Klingspor close by. That place is so dangerous.. Woodworking toy store. That's actually where my router plate came from. I usually hit those guys up for just a quick router bit.. Picked up a chamfer bit I've yet to play with because I didn't have a table.. That's certainly coming soon. Mobile Solutions also has some rather "premium" but well thought out bit sets that are starting to appeal to me. Wish those template kits and clear router shields weren't so proud.


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## Babs

Sub IB wall going back in..










Its kind of the starting point for the false floor because the bottom panel just aft the wall will be attached to the wall by a couple L-brackets. So that plate is attached to the sides by two straight brackets, and those panels by two 1/4” bolts into rivnuts. So hopefully it’ll all be nice and secure. 

Tested this spot and appears to be a decent ground point which will hopefully work nicely for the extra battery negative. 








































Now to button this thing up with wiring enough to put power to it. Stinks when I pretty much only get weekends to work on it. 



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## beak81champ

Nice work, brother! Good to see you moving right along...


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## LBaudio

Nice work, I can see that DIY itch started again....I like the router table
Mobile solutions have some very nice bits and bit sets, but price is just killer


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## mumbles

Install is looking great, but you missed a clear opportunity to post a pic of your meter taking that reading.... meter porn, its a thing!


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## Babs

mumbles said:


> Install is looking great, but you missed a clear opportunity to post a pic of your meter taking that reading.... meter porn, its a thing!


Had to leave something to your imagination of course. It did say 0.2 ohms.. Same as at the the leads themselves.


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## oabeieo

Babs said:


> Had to leave something to your imagination of course. It did say 0.2 ohms.. Same as at the the leads themselves.




.2ohms must me a MOD! 

Got to tell ya , 1/2 Carmel pretzel 1/2 grahamother is legit! 


Vape tricks!!! 


(Okay okay okay babs I’m just kidding ,) I do love my vape tho


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## Babs

Baffle wall back in officially









System pos and ground



















Just making sure she’s prepped










Quite a janky way to do it I’m sure but use whatcha got.. And I got gaffer tape. 









This is going to be a pain for sure. A few of these don’t bend so well. 



























After routing wires behind the liner it pushed them in a bit so stuff doesn’t quite fit. No problem trimming. 









So it’s a matter of wiring up at this point then throwing the switch. 


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## BigAl205

Daaang! Looking good!


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## Babs

So I'll ask a stupid question on accessory batteries.. This thing will get +12vdc from the distribution block so of course it's fused with the in-line 100A, but also the main battery has a 150A Stinger Breaker. Spare battery grounded to chassis as is main battery up front.

I suppose when I go live with this thing, I'll simply close the breaker at the main battery and she'll all go up on 12v ok? No fires allowed. LOL!!! Being mostly facetious but I've not used a spare battery before.


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## BigAl205

The main thing to remember is to have two fuses inline with the cable going to the trunk, one at the front battery, and another one just before the second battery. This way, if the main cable gets grounded, the rear battery won't discharge forward.


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## Babs

BigAl205 said:


> The main thing to remember is to have two fuses inline with the cable going to the trunk, one at the front battery, and another one just before the second battery. This way, if the main cable gets grounded, the rear battery won't discharge forward.


Good to go.. Breaker up front. Blue Sea Inline in back. :beerchug:

I would have liked to have kept an inline from the Alt to battery on the big-3 addition but zero room. May do that yet if I can find an itty bitty 4awg in-line that could mount somewhere.


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## Babs

Let the wire therapy begin:































I dunno.. No guarantees but it would be lovely if I could take this thing to finals. A boat load left to do though, and I’d rather not just throw it in there without wire OCD just to be able to lay power to it. 


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## Babs

This weekend’s work I did a thing with speaker wiring on the amp rack.. Stinger 12awg, wire ferrules and fork terminals, shrink wrapped, labeled, tied and routed.. Wow was this a time suck, but I think it’ll work hopefully. 







































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## bertholomey

That looks fantastic to me! Proper work right there!!! Looking forward to the first demo!


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## Babs

bertholomey said:


> That looks fantastic to me! Proper work right there!!! Looking forward to the first demo!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



You and me both Bro! So Bing has said this type of wiring stuff is therapeutic.. I can say I’d rather do a Metcon. LOL 


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## WhereAmEye?

Babs said:


> You and me both Bro! So Bing has said this type of wiring stuff is therapeutic.. I can say I’d rather do a Metcon. LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




I kinda agree that it’s therapeutic but only the first couple hours. After 2 hours bent over and you have to put heat shrink on another wire it’s no longer therapeutic haha. 

Looks great!


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## Babs

Just curious since it could be a direct swap.. Feeler if anyone might be interested in my Helix Pro-2 with USB HEC? Functionally and cosmetically great. I’m contemplating maybe the DSP.3 mainly for comparison as it could be a direct swap without changing out director wiring. 


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## Zippy

I just got done swapping my Arc PS8 to the Helix DSP.3. I’m using the WiFi module and the URC.3 controller. There is an app that lets my iPad Mini act as a director over WiFi. So far I REALLY like the Helix software. I finally have a true hires path to a DSP. The reason I didn’t go with the Pro was I had no use for the extra channels. If like me you are only using 7-8 channels, go ahead and swap to the DSP.3.


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## cmusic

Zippy said:


> I just got done swapping my Arc PS8 to the Helix DSP.3. I’m using the WiFi module and the URC.3 controller. There is an app that lets my iPad Mini act as a director over WiFi. So far I REALLY like the Helix software. I finally have a true hires path to a DSP. The reason I didn’t go with the Pro was I had no use for the extra channels. If like me you are only using 7-8 channels, go ahead and swap to the DSP.3.


Most competitors that use the Arc PS8 prefer it over the PS8 Pro. Most competitors I have talked to say the regular PS8 has better sound quality than the Pro.

I'm in the same Helix boat. I love my DSP MKII and Director and I am using only 8 channels at the time. However in the future I may add a center channel and rear fill, so I'll probably wait for the Ultra before I change. 

Helix will be introducing the Audiostage HEC module in 2020 that will allow a portable USB drive connection to their ACO equipped DSPs. It has an internal wi-fi module. You can have all your music stored on a USB drive and you can control the music from an app on your phone. No more need for a head unit!










Just to be clear the DSP MKII is not ACO equipped. The Brax DSP, DSP Mini, and DSP.3 are ACO equipped.


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## Babs

Got about a 1/3 of a day to try to carry on buttoning up this thing. Pretty or not I just want to get it all back in at this point. Got subs, rear deck, rear seat, driver seat and a bunch of panels to go yet. 

I find that much of car audio delays comes with working through poor past decisions. The choice of a stiff insulation and stiff jacket speaker wire choice throughout the car being a biggie. 

This mediabridge wire seems to be reliable and tough enough but it’s absolutely garbage to work with in a tight spot. Because I was running some dual voice coil midbass at one point, the midbass wires are actually 4-conductor making it that much more a PITA.

Had I to do again, I’d have run stinger 16 awg or even 12 awg throughout. The 12awg I ran at the amps is a 1,000 times easier to work with, and I suspect a more appropriate strand count. Lessons learned. 
































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## Babs

cmusic said:


> Helix will be introducing the Audiostage HEC module in 2020 that will allow a portable USB drive connection to their ACO equipped DSPs. It has an internal wi-fi module. You can have all your music stored on a USB drive and you can control the music from an app on your phone. No more need for a head unit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just to be clear the DSP MKII is not ACO equipped. The Brax DSP, DSP Mini, and DSP.3 are ACO equipped.


That looks like the game-changer for AF to get a "player" solution to market to compete with the new Zapco player/DSP's. If Audiotec-Fischer gets this thing right, it'll be the perfect solution if the player part of the app works well on devices (phones, tablets etc). Also if it doesn't have the usual bugs such as the continuous play ability among other problems the Audison player had which kinda killed it.

Yeah I kinda dread having to internally set OEM head unit gains and try to measure head unit output somehow if I can get Helix output to an RTA somehow to see if it's actually a decent viable full range. Since the Fiio and the USB HEC are the preferred sources anyway, that's not that big of a deal, but I do want to try to at least do the OEM signal right, if I can.


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## Mic10is

cmusic said:


> Most competitors that use the Arc PS8 prefer it over the PS8 Pro. Most competitors I have talked to say the regular PS8 has better sound quality than the Pro.


Sonically the PS8 and Pro are very similar, slight SQ advantage to the PS8 bc you can change opamps to tailor the sound to your liking. from a functional stand point, I prefer the Pro. I was running Pro since it came out and wife had PS8 w mods. between tuning 2 cars, I ended up changing hers out bc I felt limited with what I could do compared to using the Pro.
Pro offers more TA, more options like ability to link channels in XO section and few other things.
and I prefer both sonically over a Helix. I even had a DSP Pro modified by Gordon Taylor and I think my stock PS8Pro sounds better


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## Babs

This was roughly an hour and a half, EQ'ing each driver, summing a flat response down side, then repeating on the other side. 
TA was mostly by distance with some ear work as well. Here's the whole system:









So I have to blow the dust off the tuning skills but it's starting to come back to me. I still think I need to work on midbass region a good bit more and see if I can tighten it up.. Such is the agony of door midbass. All in all though, it's starting to shape up pretty good. So on power and fidelity... I might have a great many problems, but enough clean amp ain't one of them. LOL! These Z-LX's get the job done. Of course I have a decent bit more output, but the stage is now bigger, detail, separation, etc etc.. All better. The car itself, the volume threshold for rattles, and the nut behind the wheel are the biggest weaknesses now. I have to exercise great restraint with the subs now I find, or I can literally make the deck do things I've never heard before. So there's plenty there to pull back if I can get the midbass ironed out so I can put the subs on the dash. That's going to be the challenge.


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## bertholomey

Good stuff Bro! It is great to see progress! And that the amplifier change is paying dividends. 


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## LBaudio

nice to see you are still pushing this install to be better and better!


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## Huckleberry Sound

Thump!


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