# JL AUDIO ZR800-CW 8-inch Infinite-Baffle Woofer



## msmith

Free Air Resonance (Fs): 46.27 Hz
Electrical “Q” (Qes): 0.702
Mechanical “Q” (Qms): 11.667
Total Speaker “Q” (Qts): 0.662
Equivalent Compliance (Vas): 0.787 ft3 / 22.29 litres
One-way, Linear Excursion (Xmax): 0.34 in. / 8.6 mm
Efficiency (1W/1m): 87.0 dB SPL
Effective Piston Area (Sd): 33.34 in2 / 0.0215 m2
DC Resistance (Re): 3.935 ohm
Moving Mass (Mms): 34.23 grams
BL: 7.471 N/A
Motor Strength (BL^2/Re): 14.18
Inductance (Le): 0.602 mH
Nominal Impedance: 4 ohm
Power Handling (continuous): 125W
Frequency Response: 50 Hz - 500 Hz (± 3 dB)
Voice Coil Diameter 1.75-in. / 44 mm
Manufactured in USA

Frame Outer Diameter 8.26 in. / 209.8 mm
Grille Tray Outer Diameter 8.49 in. / 215.6 mm
Magnet Outer Diameter 4.54 in. / 115.3 mm
Frontal Grille Protrusion 1.17 in. / 29.7 mm
Mounting Hole Diameter 7.125 in. / 181.0 mm
Mounting Depth 3.39 in. / 86.0 mm

APPLICATION INFORMATION
The ZR800-CW is a powerful 8-inch component woofer designed to operate in automotive sound systems reproducing the frequency range between 30 Hz and 400 Hz. It can be used in infinite baffle or enclosed applications as an extremely potent, dedicated midbass speaker or as a full woofer. 
Active Filtering is Recommended: When used as a mid-bass speaker, we recommend the use of dedicated amplifier channels and active filtering (electronic crossovers) with the ZR800-CW. The ZR800-CW maintains smooth frequency response characteristics up to 500 Hz, so it is advisable to cross it over with mid-range speakers at 300-400 Hz to ensure a smooth transition. Pushing it higher than this range may result in uneven response which may require equalization to correct.

As a dedicated mid-bass speaker operating above 50 Hz (with active filtering) the ZR800-CW can be safely operated at power levels momentarily exceeding 200 watts per woofer. When operating below 50 Hz as a true woofer, power should be limited to no more than 125 watts per woofer in infinite baffle applications.


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## ErinH

Thanks for posting this. It's nice to see mfg's doing this.


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## w00tah

Does it have a shorting ring? There's a certain member *cough* DS-21 *cough* who will say it's junk because it doesn't have a Faraday in it.



Oh well, great looking woofer, and nice looking specs too.



Kef


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## yermolovd

no and he has already commented here
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41680&page=3&highlight=zr800
if you really like to be up to date on his pots.
no he did not say it was junk.
this is just an ad and people has already seen this. nothing new here .


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## kappa546

nice.


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## mvw2

Cool woofer. Thanks for you and the JL folks for bringing this out in this manner msmith.

Any chance on a frequency response graph?

How soft/flexible is the cone being poly?


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## w00tah

yermolovd said:


> no and he has already commented here
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41680&page=3&highlight=zr800
> if you really like to be up to date on his pots.
> no he did not say it was junk.
> this is just an ad and people has already seen this. nothing new here .


I figured he would talk trash about it, since he opened his mouth in the E8 thread.


Our local shop probably won't even get any of them, since most of the locals aren't content with active 3 way setups. I'd love to hear one though. I heard the 650 ZR's and wasn't too impressed, although it was on a demo board, which I think was idiotic of them to do.





Kef


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## 60ndown

my guess is thats its ideal for a serious 3 way front,

tweet + midrange + 8" mid-bass in door i.b.

or on a rear shelf of a trunk car 

even the haterz know jl make good stuffs


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## W8 a minute

Good stuff. I like. 

Edit: One good thing a lot of people don't realize is how many other companies are going to offer up IB 8" woofers now that JL has done it


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## jimbno1

What advantages does this have over the 8-IB4? 

I can list a couple I see from Specs such as power handling, 4 ohm versus 8ohm, and slightly (very slightly) larger piston area. Poly should hold up to the door environment better than paper. And I asume the ZR800's are available unlike the 8-IB4's. But for the most part the specs are very similar. 

I would be willing to send a pair of my 8-IB4s for comparison if anyone is willing to do some critical testing.


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## WLDock

Well, I plan to borrow a set of SLS drivers to test out and I might pick up a ZR800-CW to compare. I also can get a set of the Daytons from a friend....that same friend also has the Kicker 8's in his truck. Humm...maybe an 8" midbass showdown might be in the works? I will contact you jimbno1...however, I don't have a test rig so this will be a listening test only.


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## [email protected]

60ndown said:


> my guess is thats its ideal for a serious 3 way front,
> 
> tweet + midrange + 8" mid-bass in door i.b.
> 
> or on a rear shelf of a trunk car
> 
> *even the haterz know jl make good stuffs*



Some good stuff, but definetly not worth the price they ask, what is this 8" driver $200 apiece?


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## jimbno1

I agree JL is over priced but HAT 8's are $250+ each, as are AT Cequenze. Scan 18W Revs are ~$220. Seas Excel aren't cheap either. But there seems to be a real problem with JL equipment on this board. Any time I mention JL either no one has any opinion, or they state they do not like their products. 

Is price the only main concern or is it something else? If price is the main issue with JL, then why do people get a chubby on here for other expensive equipment such as Tru, McIntosh, Simphoni (sp), Linear Power, Genesis, Morel, etc? Some of the afore mentioned amps seem much more overpriced that JL equipment. 

I find it odd that some mainstream manufacturers seem to be accepted on this board while others appear to be taboo, or at least frowned upon.


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## [email protected]

jimbno1 said:


> I agree JL is over priced but HAT 8's are $250+ each, as are AT Cequenze. Scan 18W Revs are ~$220. Seas Excel aren't cheap either. But there seems to be a real problem with JL equipment on this board. Any time I mention JL either no one has any opinion, or they state they do not like their products.
> 
> Is price the only main concern or is it something else? If price is the main issue with JL, then why do people get a chubby on here for other expensive equipment such as Tru, McIntosh, Simphoni (sp), Linear Power, Genesis, Morel, etc? Some of the afore mentioned amps seem much more overpriced that JL equipment.
> 
> I find it odd that some mainstream manufacturers seem to be accepted on this board while others appear to be taboo, or at least frowned upon.


You can go anywhere and get JL, things being produced at that scale and sold for such a high price usually arent worth it if you are a budget oriented consumer, the more you sell and have made means the cheaper you get each unit for and therefore should pass the savings on to the consumer, atleast IMO

I have used or installed just about every product offering that JL has or had, I know they have alot of patents on things and such, but the flagship woofer they offer for an outragous price has a bloated non natural sound to it and can cost you up to almost $1000 per driver, I think JL sells more because of its name then the quality of the products, every highschool schmuck thinks that since they have a JL stereo that cost so much it is the best in the world


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## w00tah

BeatsDownLow said:


> You can go anywhere and get JL, things being produced at that scale and sold for such a high price usually arent worth it if you are a budget oriented consumer, the more you sell and have made means the cheaper you get each unit for and therefore should pass the savings on to the consumer, atleast IMO
> 
> I have used or installed just about every product offering that JL has or had, I know they have alot of patents on things and such, but the flagship woofer they offer for an outragous price has a bloated non natural sound to it and can cost you up to almost $1000 per driver, *I think JL sells more because of its name then the quality of the products, every highschool schmuck thinks that since they have a JL stereo that cost so much it is the best in the world*



The exact sentiment I've had towards them, and even though I loved the sound of my w0, it wasn't worth the 125 or so new RETAIL that our local shop would charge, that's why I bought it used for 30 shipped 



Kef


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## killerb87

jl audio makes and has always made top rate gear even if you dont like the company. i still have original 10w6's in my girls car and they still sound great. are they THE best? i wouldnt say so. but as a company they have had no real clunkers, how many mass produced car audio companies can say that? they have an excellent TEAM of product period.


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## msmith

BeatsDownLow said:


> You can go anywhere and get JL, things being produced at that scale and sold for such a high price usually arent worth it if you are a budget oriented consumer, the more you sell and have made means the cheaper you get each unit for and therefore should pass the savings on to the consumer, atleast IMO
> 
> I have used or installed just about every product offering that JL has or had, I know they have alot of patents on things and such, but the flagship woofer they offer for an outragous price has a bloated non natural sound to it and can cost you up to almost $1000 per driver, I think JL sells more because of its name then the quality of the products, every highschool schmuck thinks that since they have a JL stereo that cost so much it is the best in the world


We are neither the biggest or the smallest company in car audio, but nobody puts more into engineering and quality than we do. Nobody. Inspect the glue joints and the assembly quality of any of our speakers and compare them to any other. Not to mention all the patented technologies and extra parts that are in our speaker. And we build most of our drivers in our factory in the USA. This costs a bit more, but it's worth it to us.

Here are some photos of the W7 production line: http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=35

If you don't like the way a W7 sounds, you may have heard it in the wrong box or with a system tune that was out of whack. The W7 is "good enough" to be used in our flagship home subwoofers which have received numerous awards from snobby audiophile home publications, like the Absolute Sound and Stereophile, among many others. Look here: http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=33
It is also the best-selling premium subwoofer of all time, because it is one hell of a good subwoofer driver.

The old line about "every high school schmuck" implies that all we do is rely on our name... well, that name's reputation came from making great products and is maintained by making great products. Are they a bit more expensive than some others... Sure. But there is substance there, real substance. Just look at the ZR800-CW's Klippel curves for proof of that.


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## [email protected]

msmith said:


> We are neither the biggest or the smallest company in car audio, but nobody puts more into engineering and quality than we do. Nobody. Inspect the glue joints and the assembly quality of any of our speakers and compare them to any other. Not to mention all the patented technologies and extra parts that are in our speaker. And we build most of our drivers in our factory in the USA. This costs a bit more, but it's worth it to us.
> 
> Here are some photos of the W7 production line: http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=35
> 
> If you don't like the way a W7 sounds, you may have heard it in the wrong box or with a system tune that was out of whack. The W7 is "good enough" to be used in our flagship home subwoofers which have received numerous awards from snobby audiophile home publications, like the Absolute Sound and Stereophile, among many others. Look here: http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=33
> It is also the best-selling premium subwoofer of all time, because it is one hell of a good subwoofer driver.
> 
> The old line about "every high school schmuck" implies that all we do is rely on our name... well, that name's reputation came from making great products and is maintained by making great products. Are they a bit more expensive than some others... Sure. But there is substance there, real substance. Just look at the ZR800-CW's Klippel curves for proof of that.



I never stated that the products were crap, I was just stating overpriced IMO, I have heard your flagship woofer in several enclosures, ones made by myself ones made by your dealers, your suggested enclosures and ones made differently, and IMO the were all bloated and not natural, as far as build quality I think there is not a problem, and stating that a product is "good enough" is not a good way to describe a product that is your top of the line.

And I am not saying that I dont or havent used overpriced drivers, I run all DLS speakers that are overpriced, but overpriced doesnt mean the build quality isnt there or sometimes the quality of sound isnt there.

and again this is my opinion, other will differ


So on another note what does this driver cost?


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## filtor1

msmith said:


> We are neither the biggest or the smallest company in car audio, but nobody puts more into engineering and quality than we do. Nobody. Inspect the glue joints and the assembly quality of any of our speakers and compare them to any other. Not to mention all the patented technologies and extra parts that are in our speaker. And we build most of our drivers in our factory in the USA. This costs a bit more, but it's worth it to us.
> 
> Here are some photos of the W7 production line: http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=35
> 
> If you don't like the way a W7 sounds, you may have heard it in the wrong box or with a system tune that was out of whack. The W7 is "good enough" to be used in our flagship home subwoofers which have received numerous awards from snobby audiophile home publications, like the Absolute Sound and Stereophile, among many others. Look here: http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=33
> It is also the best-selling premium subwoofer of all time, because it is one hell of a good subwoofer driver.
> 
> The old line about "every high school schmuck" implies that all we do is rely on our name... well, that name's reputation came from making great products and is maintained by making great products. Are they a bit more expensive than some others... Sure. But there is substance there, real substance. Just look at the ZR800-CW's Klippel curves for proof of that.


WOW! That production line link really impressed me. I had no idea how white gloved the assembly process was. 

I guess I will chime in on the opinion part of this thread. I have owned JL in the past. I loved it. A single 15W0 way back in 1995. I would have played more with the products, but my disposable income just wasn't there to budget for them. I have been particularly interested in the Gotham, but again find myself in the "budget" category. Maybe one day I will be able to afford one to try it out. I have never personally been anti JL. I realize they take thier business seriously. I am just surrounded by budget DIY'rs that try and maximize thier utility and buy cheaper products.

I also appreciate that they come here and post results from new products. Not just from an advertising standpoint, but to introduce a new pruduct that may fit the bill for a reader. The biggest issue is that most here are the DIY croud. Trying to maximize utility and price with no concern for "overpriced" gear. They are only overpriced if you don't have the means to purchase it. If you don't like the product, that is a totally different issue and one that I can't argue. 

I say keep up the good work. As long as you make the best product you can with all the passion for the industry you can muster, you will continue to succeed in your chosen market.


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## ocuriel

Same here. I appreciate the specs & test results. I always liked JL audio gear.


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## fischman

Filtor1 put it great.

I respect JL for what they do. However most of their products are out of my DIY price range for now. I do feel that within my price range I can get comparable sound quality, but that doesn't mean that they are overpriced. Just 2 ways of doing similar things with different prices. I would never argue that their products are not quality. I would argue that I can find similar quality in a price that I find more affordable.

Josh F.


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## msmith

BeatsDownLow said:


> I never stated that the products were crap, I was just stating overpriced IMO, I have heard your flagship woofer in several enclosures, ones made by myself ones made by your dealers, your suggested enclosures and ones made differently, and IMO the were all bloated and not natural, as far as build quality I think there is not a problem, and stating that a product is "good enough" is not a good way to describe a product that is your top of the line.


That's why I put it in quotation marks. I was being facetious.

As for the SQ thing... it's in the ear of the beholder I guess. What you consider "bloated" might actually sound more accurate to me.



> And I am not saying that I dont or havent used overpriced drivers, I run all DLS speakers that are overpriced, but overpriced doesnt mean the build quality isnt there or sometimes the quality of sound isnt there.
> 
> and again this is my opinion, other will differ
> 
> 
> So on another note what does this driver cost?


About the same as a Dynaudio or ScanSpeak woofer. Check with your dealer for an actual price quote.


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## WLDock

Well, let's talk about overpriced 8" midbasses for a second. 

Are these JL's on the costly side, YES! 
Are they the most expensive 8's out there, NO! 
Are they worth the price? I doubt many have heard them to answer?

From the Kipple results they look just as good as the SLS driver...however they have better sensitivity, are 4 Ohms, and have a decent mounting depth.
Now....the XLS driver sold for about $120 a pair (Closed out for less) and got rave reviews and guys have been able to sell those drivers USED for $250-$300! Is that overpriced or worth the price? 

Well, I was not moved to pay that much myself given the fact that the SLS is quite capable but I am somewhat moved to compare the ZR800 against the SLS due to the differences stated above. Only then can I state if the driver is worth the price...well, worth the price to me anyway! And no way do I plan to pay full retail.

JL makes nice stuff but they don’t have the most expensive prices out there…stop the bashing…there is SO much gear in which to choose from it really is useless. People will buy what they will.


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## FoxPro5

WLDock said:


> Well, let's talk about overpriced 8" midbasses for a second.


How about the Lotus 8" or Scan 22W? They're ~$350-400 each. What are the AT mids? $500??



> From the Kipple results they look just as good as the SLS driver


Where did you see Klippel data on the SLS driver?

And, just for fun, I called Crutchfield to see what retail is on them, but they cannot get them...even on special order. I'm going to pass on the local JL Audio dealer crackheads, thank you very much. So, if anyone here would like to PM me a price, I'd be a lot closer to either eliminating or including them from the possibility list.


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## W8 a minute

msmith said:


> We are neither the biggest or the smallest company in car audio, but nobody puts more into engineering and quality than we do. Nobody. Inspect the glue joints and the assembly quality of any of our speakers and compare them to any other. Not to mention all the patented technologies and extra parts that are in our speaker. And we build most of our drivers in our factory in the USA. This costs a bit more, but it's worth it to us.
> 
> Here are some photos of the W7 production line: http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=35
> 
> If you don't like the way a W7 sounds, you may have heard it in the wrong box or with a system tune that was out of whack. The W7 is "good enough" to be used in our flagship home subwoofers which have received numerous awards from snobby audiophile home publications, like the Absolute Sound and Stereophile, among many others. Look here: http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=33
> It is also the best-selling premium subwoofer of all time, because it is one hell of a good subwoofer driver.
> 
> The old line about "every high school schmuck" implies that all we do is rely on our name... well, that name's reputation came from making great products and is maintained by making great products. Are they a bit more expensive than some others... Sure. But there is substance there, real substance. Just look at the ZR800-CW's Klippel curves for proof of that.


Well put. 
You have to realize there is a certain crowd who love to hate anything popular. They want to be the person using a product most people have never heard of in order for them to feel "superior." If they tell you what kind of mids they are running and you say "I never heard of that brand" they then get to tell you (this is the most important part) "Then I guess you don't know as much about audio as I do therefore I am the superior audiophile. I slaved and toiled to search the world over to find the greatest mid that no one else has ever heard. Until now."

It reminds me of the grunge era in music. A band was cool until they became popular, then certain people would be embarrassed to admit they still listen to them but were quick to point out that they had "heard them before anyone else. Before they became popular." 

Granted, there are some real gems out there waiting to be found. But for the majority of people it's nice to know they can walk into the local dealer, point their finger at any JL product and know they bought a good, or possibly great, piece of equipment. People are willing to pay for that peace of mind that JL brings.


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## w00tah

msmith said:


> That's why I put it in quotation marks. I was being facetious.
> 
> *As for the SQ thing... it's in the ear of the beholder I guess. What you consider "bloated" might actually sound more accurate to me.*
> 
> 
> 
> About the same as a Dynaudio or ScanSpeak woofer. Check with your dealer for an actual price quote.




The problem Manville is that most people who don't particularly like the w7's sound use that same word to describe it. IMO, the w6v2 sounds better than the w7, no matter the power level on the drivers. The w6v2 just sounds better to me, the w7 does indeed sound bloated to me. Then again, I think a lot of decent subs sound better than the w7, like the OZ Matrix Elite, Diamond D9/TDX, and JBL WGTi to name a few. Doesn't mean that the w7 isn't a good driver, and doesn't mean it doesn't have it's place. It's a very capable driver, but when price comes into play, it's hard to buy a single 1k retail driver versus a pair of 15's or 12's for the same price.



Kef


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## WLDock

FoxPro5 said:


> Where did you see Klippel data on the SLS driver?


8" Midbass test:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9060

On paper the performance of the JL looks as good as many of the drivers in the test(Price aside). Although it would be nice to see some distortion plots and frequency response graphs of the ZR800-CW. You have any Manville?


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## msmith

WLDock said:


> 8" Midbass test:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9060
> 
> On paper the performance of the JL looks as good as many of the drivers in the test(Price aside). Although it would be nice to see some distortion plots and frequency response graphs of the ZR800-CW. You have any Manville?



I'll check with engineering on the FR and distortion data.


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## WLDock

Also, when will these ship? my local is still waiting....


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## [email protected]

WLDock said:


> Also, when will these ship? my local is still waiting....


Out of curiousity I called my local dealer and they said they can get them but they are a special order product that they wont be stocking, the price wasnt nearly as high as I thought they would be.


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## msmith

Yes, they are shipping. If any JL dealer is reluctant to order them, please let me know via e-mail.


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## FoxPro5

WLDock said:


> 8" Midbass test:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9060


There it is. Forgot about that one. 

Looks like the approximate retail for these is $229 ea. That's just after looking online, not going to brick and mortar (who WILL try to sell at retail +).


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## [email protected]

FoxPro5 said:


> There it is. Forgot about that one.
> 
> Looks like the approximate retail for these is $229 ea. That's just after looking online, not going to brick and mortar (who WILL try to sell at retail +).


I was told $399 for the pair


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## FoxPro5

BeatsDownLow said:


> I was told $399 for the pair


By whom?


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## [email protected]

FoxPro5 said:


> By whom?


Custom Sounds who is the closest dealer to me


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## AudioBob

$399 per pair is a decent price at retail. I went to order mine a month ago and they were on backorder. I have a good friend that is a JL dealer and he is going to order them for me when I remember to call him. If Mr. Smith can expedite getting me a pair I can order them tomorrow. I prefer to get them directly from JL and not the distributor.

As soon as I get them in I will provide a detailed review for everyone. I have just been too busy at work to indulge myself in my audio hobby. I have plenty of experience with good 8" mid bass drivers. I had a pair of Hertz 8" components in my doors at one point. I also had a car that had a pair of OZ 8" 200Ls that I absolutely loved and will be hard to match.

I think that JL makes really nice equipment that if taken care of will last many years. I have had my 300/4 and 500/1 for about 7 years with absolutely no issues at all. I like it as well as my Alpine Equipment from the 80's and my Soundstream and Boston Acoustics Equipment from the 90's.


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## WLDock

FoxPro5 said:


> By whom?





BeatsDownLow said:


> I was told $399 for the pair


$340 was the best that I got so far.


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## msmith

AudioBob said:


> $399 per pair is a decent price at retail. I went to order mine a month ago and they were on backorder. I have a good friend that is a JL dealer and he is going to order them for me when I remember to call him. If Mr. Smith can expedite getting me a pair I can order them tomorrow. I prefer to get them directly from JL and not the distributor.


Unfortunately, we don't sell directly. I recommend you call your dealer and order them. We have them in stock.

Best regards, and thank you for using JL Audio products.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.


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## MIAaron

WLDock said:


> $340 was the best that I got so far.


Keep an ear out for car tunes next B1G1 sale. I almost picked up a pair to get back into 3way, but decided against it last minute.


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## Dangerranger

w00tah said:


> The problem Manville is that most people who don't particularly like the w7's sound use that same word to describe it. IMO, the w6v2 sounds better than the w7, no matter the power level on the drivers.


People said the same about Brahmas and other similar highly linear subwoofers when they came out. 

In the case of the W7, I really think that the big reason behind people thinking it sounds "bloated" is simply due to massive low end output combined with the low distortion of the W7's design. Most other subs out there are very low Qts designs that don't have the same level of low end unless you go ported with them, which again, people start to complain about them sounding "bloated". If you EQ down the low end offered you not only get them sounding great, you also cut the required amplifier power and the excursion of the sub. Gets nothing but better.

The other aspect is lower harmonic distortion, which people on a lot of levels simply aren't accustomed to. Give people a design that has more output around 60-80hz and rolls off and they perceive it as "tight". In a lot of ways, harmonic distortion effectively adds spectral content at higher frequencies, and I simply don't think people are used to the absence of this (not really "absence" but a much lower level of harmonic content).


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## 98kugt

I have a set installed in my truck. I really like them, but don't feel comfortable enough to describe how they sound. I can tell you this. They are capable of a lot of output, but are on the power hungry side. I would definitely put at least the 125 watts that JL recommends. I am very happy with them and usually don't use my sub too much.

Oh and mine are serial numbered 13 & 14 and I was told they might be the first 8s to arrive to dealers in the Midwest.


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## WLDock

MIAaron said:


> Keep an ear out for car tunes next B1G1 sale. I almost picked up a pair to get back into 3way, but decided against it last minute.


The Allen Park store said that they were still waiting on them.


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## msmith

WLDock said:


> The Allen Park store said that they were still waiting on them.


Not sure what they're waiting for... if they order them, they will get them.


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## mvw2

w00tah said:


> The problem Manville is that most people who don't particularly like the w7's sound use that same word to describe it. IMO, the w6v2 sounds better than the w7, no matter the power level on the drivers. The w6v2 just sounds better to me, the w7 does indeed sound bloated to me.
> Kef


In my eyes boated = frequency response issue.

Otherwise, it would be a matter of sounding too thick, sluggish, smoothed over, sloppy, or some other descriptive term.

It's really a matter of context though. Your term of bloated is different then mine. I may use a different word to describe the same thing.

Bloated in my sense is an overemphasis of a certain frequency range. This is less woofer specific, although frequency response may in fact be peaky. I see it more as a box issue as well as final EQing.

Ideally, it would be nice to compare hardware on equal terms. Equal effectively means _not_ out of the box, a setup that favors ease of use over great sound. An example would be Seas Excel woofers, regarded by many as one of the best available. I've used them. They aren't great right out of the box and requires more EQing then other options. I have used other drivers that sound better with no work but have yet to use any that sound better with work. 

One needs to differentiate the difference between various characteristics, attempting not to blend similar but different characteristics together. An example would be a sub that's run in a compact, high tuned ported box. It will sound peaky, punchy, tight. However, the sub itself in a more ideal box behaves less so. In a large box, it may open up, sound fuller, become more subtle and transient. With a lower tune, it will become less peaky and more even. Maybe this sub still retains certain key characteristics that are more inherent with the driver itself, for example, clarity and level of detail, weight of the notes, high frequency roll off/sluggishness, characteristics that are not influenced by the box or change in relative dampening.

The DIYMA is touted as being bloated. I run it ported, and yes, the bottom end is full and a little over abundant in a car. A little EQing tames it right down though and everything evens out.

I have become an avid EQ user simply because frequency response, well the lack of a smooth, consistent response, causes so many headaches. I've come to favor drivers with broad, flat frequency responses for the same reason. Excess isn't bad. It at least means you have it, and you can simply tame it down. It's more worrisome to lack, and then EQ and hope you can get it.

I really have no point to these comments.  I'm just sort of rambling aimlessly.


----------



## m3gunner

^^ Some days are like that...


----------



## rockondon

msmith said:


> Free Air Resonance (Fs): 46.27 Hz
> Electrical “Q” (Qes): 0.702
> Mechanical “Q” (Qms): 11.667
> Total Speaker “Q” (Qts): 0.662
> Equivalent Compliance (Vas): 0.787 ft3 / 22.29 litres
> One-way, Linear Excursion (Xmax): 0.34 in. / 8.6 mm
> Efficiency (1W/1m): 87.0 dB SPL
> Effective Piston Area (Sd): 33.34 in2 / 0.0215 m2
> DC Resistance (Re): 3.935 ohm
> Moving Mass (Mms): 34.23 grams
> BL: 7.471 N/A
> Motor Strength (BL^2/Re): 14.18
> Inductance (Le): 0.602 mH
> Nominal Impedance: 4 ohm
> Power Handling (continuous): 125W
> Frequency Response: 50 Hz - 500 Hz (± 3 dB)
> Voice Coil Diameter 1.75-in. / 44 mm
> Manufactured in USA
> 
> Frame Outer Diameter 8.26 in. / 209.8 mm
> Grille Tray Outer Diameter 8.49 in. / 215.6 mm
> Magnet Outer Diameter 4.54 in. / 115.3 mm
> Frontal Grille Protrusion 1.17 in. / 29.7 mm
> Mounting Hole Diameter 7.125 in. / 181.0 mm
> Mounting Depth 3.39 in. / 86.0 mm
> 
> APPLICATION INFORMATION
> The ZR800-CW is a powerful 8-inch component woofer designed to operate in automotive sound systems reproducing the frequency range between 30 Hz and 400 Hz. It can be used in infinite baffle or enclosed applications as an extremely potent, dedicated midbass speaker or as a full woofer.
> Active Filtering is Recommended: When used as a mid-bass speaker, we recommend the use of dedicated amplifier channels and active filtering (electronic crossovers) with the ZR800-CW. The ZR800-CW maintains smooth frequency response characteristics up to 500 Hz, so it is advisable to cross it over with mid-range speakers at 300-400 Hz to ensure a smooth transition. Pushing it higher than this range may result in uneven response which may require equalization to correct.
> 
> As a dedicated mid-bass speaker operating above 50 Hz (with active filtering) the ZR800-CW can be safely operated at power levels momentarily exceeding 200 watts per woofer. When operating below 50 Hz as a true woofer, power should be limited to no more than 125 watts per woofer in infinite baffle applications.



msmith.......
A dealer for Jl in my area keeps tring to convince me the M770 makes a real badassed dedicated midbass.
Care to offer a comment.?


----------



## WLDock

*Re: JL AUDIO ZR800-CW vs. Peerless SLS 830667*

*JL AUDIO ZR800-CW vs. Peerless SLS 830667*

Here are some pics of the driver next to the SLS. The specs on the JL looks as good as the SLS and I like the fact that they are 4 Ohms and need less depth. The JL also has a larger voice coil and a stronger motor. I plan to do a review down the line. I might even grab a set of the Dayton Refs and SEAS EXCEL from friends to compare also?

With grill frame on:









Side w/ grill frame on:









With grill frame off:









Side with grill frame off:








SLS - 3.93" depth ______________________________________________________ZR800-CW - 3.39" depth

I did not show bottom pics but as we all know the SLS has the bumped back plate which adds to the rear depth. The ZR800 OTOH has a large vent at the bottom. Will see how the different motors compare...or which pounds the best under stress. I only plan to use 110 watts a side so I want to make the most of it.


----------



## 3.5max6spd

If anyone is complaining of a sub sounding fat in a car and attribute that to anything other than cabin gain/incorrect enclosure/or tuning...theres your problem.

I'm quite sure in an anechoic chamber the JL behemoths are no joke in terms of freq/response/linearity. And I can see where the W7 would make an insane HT subwoofer.

My thing is, I'm aware from the various vehicles I've built sound systems for...these huge low end monsters, high xmax drivers are not required to produce great low end in the car, nevermind a flat response. They are big bucks to essentially end up using 5% of the drivers capability in reproducing a proper level matched low end with music. So i get no boner from monster subwoofers period, i'd prefer a higher system Q approach of multiple woofers(more cone area) and much less power...in a car, it simply is more efficient, and sounds more realistic to my ears.

BTW, These 8's look great Manville. Its nice to see a manufacturer put the numbers out there and stand by their product.


----------



## WLDock

3.5max6spd said:


> If anyone is complaining of a sub sounding fat in a car and attribute that to anything other than cabin gain/incorrect enclosure/or tuning...theres your problem.
> I'm quite sure in an anechoic chamber the JL behemoths are no joke in terms of freq/response/linearity. And I can see where the W7 would make an insane HT subwoofer.
> My thing is, I'm aware from the various vehicles I've built sound systems for...these huge low end monsters, high xmax drivers are not required to produce great low end in the car, nevermind a flat response. They are big bucks to essentially end up using 5% of the drivers capability in reproducing a proper level matched low end with music. So i get no boner from monster subwoofers period, i'd prefer a higher system Q approach of multiple woofers(more cone area) and much less power...in a car, it simply is more efficient, and sounds more realistic to my ears.
> BTW, These 8's look great Manville. Its nice to see a manufacturer put the numbers out there and stand by their product.


I could not agree more with what you and others have said. I wonder if any of these guys have heard older less linear subs that us older guys were exposed to back in the day? I remember when the old Rockford Punch was supposed to be the stuff. It always sounded like boom to me. Then clean subs started showing up, like the TC Sounds creations for example. Their stuff was so much cleaner than most of the stuff in the shops. A modern sub like the W7 measures so much more clean, linear, with TONS of low end output that like you said, it is almost too much for the car given the low end boost that most have...EQ is a must I would think. I also think that the W7 would make for an awesome HT sub.

So, I would probably agree that a W7 might sound bloated in some vehicals without eq and proper integration. In my experiences, to get subs to sound best it takes work and tunning. Just dropping them in never works. Same goes for home theater. Also, my $35 Logitech PC speakers i use at work sound like crap out of the box. A little eq, level adjustment on the sub, reverse firing with sound dampning foam has got this system sounding much better! I believe everything needs tunning..........


----------



## msmith

rockondon said:


> msmith.......
> A dealer for Jl in my area keeps tring to convince me the M770 makes a real badassed dedicated midbass.
> Care to offer a comment.?


It's not bad at all, the M770 is very loud... but the ZR800 is shallower and cleaner-sounding.


----------



## 98kugt

msmith said:


> It's not bad at all, the M770 is very loud... but the ZR800 is shallower and cleaner-sounding.


I've heard both...I agree with Manville. THe M770 are LOUD, but the ZR800 is a much better overall speaker as a midbass driver IMO.


----------



## FoxPro5

They are pretty smooth and "full" sounding dedicated mids for me. They do have a hint of "sub sound" to them. I would say they are on the laid back and transparent side vs the "raw" and "edgy" side of the coin. They fill out the low end pretty well in my doors with 400w each LP at 50hz (24 dB/oct) using pretty much every last mm of that 8mm xmax.


----------



## Tirefryr

These look great in all regards!

To all the haters, I'd like to see someone show us one bad JL product. . .


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## rockondon

98kugt said:


> I've heard both...I agree with Manville. THe M770 are LOUD, but the ZR800 is a much better overall speaker as a midbass driver IMO.





msmith said:


> It's not bad at all, the M770 is very loud... but the ZR800 is shallower and cleaner-sounding.


Thank you both. I kinda thought the boat speakers might not be the best choice. As they were likely geared to be loud to work better in boats.

I might get a pair of the ZRs later. I picked up the sls8 and am working with them. [for now ,till i get the upgraditis again ]


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## Dangerranger

3.5max6spd said:


> My thing is, I'm aware from the various vehicles I've built sound systems for...these huge low end monsters, high xmax drivers are not required to produce great low end in the car, nevermind a flat response. They are big bucks to essentially end up using 5% of the drivers capability in reproducing a proper level matched low end with music. So i get no boner from monster subwoofers period, i'd prefer a higher system Q approach of multiple woofers(more cone area) and much less power...in a car, it simply is more efficient, and sounds more realistic to my ears..



I agree with this but I will say that a subwoofer with so much clean low end can be of large benefit in a vehicle if you don't hinder it with a small sealed box (as most manufacturers recommend for the behemoths). I feel the most effective thing in those cases is to use a large ported enclosure with the flattest, most extended low end response possible down to the lowest frequency intended for what you listen to, IMO with most music 30hz is realistic. Then you equalize the resultant gain in response back to flat, or for comparative purposes equalize it to the response that the same sub in a sealed box would have. 

While it seems counter-productive, most distortion is generated at low frequencies anyway, and a well designed ported box will control the excursion and reduce it dramatically, the equalization back to flat will also lower required excursion at that point. Not only that, you're also helping the amplifier out, you'll usually be cutting 6db at lower frequencies meaning power wise you only need 1/4 the power that you would at that point compared to the same subwoofer in a sealed box. 

If you look at the excursion plots on say two 12W7s in their recommended sealed boxes, versus a single 12W7 in its ported box with EQ applied to make it's response curve the same as the sealed ones, at the same SPL level (1000W applied to ported, 500W applied to the sealed PAIR, thus same output level) from 30 to a little over 50hz the excursion is still lower on the ported subwoofer due to the port's control over cone motion despite more power being applied and the same SPL being asked out of a single subwoofer. And maximum SPL levels are going to be roughly the same between the two due to having enough free excursion to do so as long as the power is there. And let's face it, power is cheap nowadays. Supersubs wouldn't exist if 1000+ watts wasn't readily affordable to the average car audio buyer. While low Q subwoofers offer a good response curve in most cars, they were really the standard back in the day because efficiency was necessary, 300 watts was quite an investment back then. Most car audio developments weren't done in the name of good sound as much as they were practicality


----------



## W8 a minute

Dangerranger said:


> I agree with this but I will say that a subwoofer with so much clean low end can be of large benefit in a vehicle if you don't hinder it with a small sealed box (as most manufacturers recommend for the behemoths). I feel the most effective thing in those cases is to use a large ported enclosure with the flattest, most extended low end response possible down to the lowest frequency intended for what you listen to, IMO with most music 30hz is realistic. Then you equalize the resultant gain in response back to flat, or for comparative purposes equalize it to the response that the same sub in a sealed box would have.
> 
> While it seems counter-productive, most distortion is generated at low frequencies anyway, and a well designed ported box will control the excursion and reduce it dramatically, the equalization back to flat will also lower required excursion at that point. Not only that, you're also helping the amplifier out, you'll usually be cutting 6db at lower frequencies meaning power wise you only need 1/4 the power that you would at that point compared to the same subwoofer in a sealed box.
> 
> If you look at the excursion plots on say two 12W7s in their recommended sealed boxes, versus a single 12W7 in its ported box with EQ applied to make it's response curve the same as the sealed ones, at the same SPL level (1000W applied to ported, 500W applied to the sealed PAIR, thus same output level) from 30 to a little over 50hz the excursion is still lower on the ported subwoofer due to the port's control over cone motion despite more power being applied and the same SPL being asked out of a single subwoofer. And maximum SPL levels are going to be roughly the same between the two due to having enough free excursion to do so as long as the power is there. And let's face it, power is cheap nowadays. Supersubs wouldn't exist if 1000+ watts wasn't readily affordable to the average car audio buyer. While low Q subwoofers offer a good response curve in most cars, they were really the standard back in the day because efficiency was necessary, 300 watts was quite an investment back then. Most car audio developments weren't done in the name of good sound as much as they were practicality


Your post really doesn't provide a good rebuttal. You are pointing out plots on a graph between to monster subs and he is saying he can get what he wants with less expense, less power, and less weight. And in his opinion would still sound better. I've pointed out similar situations in other threads. Just because I can buy a 1500 watt amp cheap doesn't mean I should NEED it just to hear bass in my vehicle. Nor do I need a 50 pound subwoofer. For normal, daily listening levels I should be just fine with a pair of 10" subs sporting 40oz magnets being pushed by 150-300 watts. Think about it, a pair of old Boston .4 subs sounded pretty good back in the day. What changed to make us think we need these behemoth subwoofers that are sold today? Did the definition of good sound change?


----------



## [email protected]

W8 a minute said:


> Your post really doesn't provide a good rebuttal. You are pointing out plots on a graph between to monster subs and he is saying he can get what he wants with less expense, less power, and less weight. And in his opinion would still sound better. I've pointed out similar situations in other threads. Just because I can buy a 1500 watt amp cheap doesn't mean I should NEED it just to hear bass in my vehicle. Nor do I need a 50 pound subwoofer. For normal, daily listening levels I should be just fine with a pair of 10" subs sporting 40oz magnets being pushed by 150-300 watts. Think about it, a pair of old Boston .4 subs sounded pretty good back in the day. *What changed to make us think we need these behemoth subwoofers that are sold today*? Did the definition of good sound change?


I associate this to what we call SPS (small penis syndrome) which is really common here in the US, people need cars that have 500+ HP at the wheels when they put around town going 45 tops, people that buy big ass suvs when they might have 2 other people in the car max at a time and dont or never have towed ****.

Americans have to have the biggest most expensive crap so they can think (key word here) that they have the best **** possible


----------



## Dangerranger

W8 a minute said:


> Your post really doesn't provide a good rebuttal. You are pointing out plots on a graph between to monster subs and he is saying he can get what he wants with less expense, less power, and less weight. And in his opinion would still sound better. I've pointed out similar situations in other threads. Just because I can buy a 1500 watt amp cheap doesn't mean I should NEED it just to hear bass in my vehicle. Nor do I need a 50 pound subwoofer. For normal, daily listening levels I should be just fine with a pair of 10" subs sporting 40oz magnets being pushed by 150-300 watts. Think about it, a pair of old Boston .4 subs sounded pretty good back in the day. What changed to make us think we need these behemoth subwoofers that are sold today? Did the definition of good sound change?


I didn't really say they're needed, I'm just saying there are ways to take advantage of the displacement of said subs and get lots of clean linear output, often much more than needed. 

What really "changed" is power got cheaper and big boxes weren't for everyone. Most (not all) older subs required behemoth boxes to get the ideal parameters, and while they were efficient, the requirements necessary to extract what potential they had weren't practical for all people and that's what manufacturers want, to cater to the largest customer base possible.

The low Q sealed box sub revolutionized the industry with practicality and a good response curve in most vehicles, think original W6 and IDQs, but really people tend to remember things to be a lot better than they really were. They were good subs, as were the .4s you mentioned etc, but they have nowhere near the potential of the subs on the market today. They sounded pretty good, but we're talking about the frequencies that we're least sensitive to distortion wise. The main goal IMO is getting the response and output necessary, and if they offer what's wanted/needed that's fine, but I'd guarantee a "monster sub", if we're talking a well designed one, in a well designed enclosure will run with two or three lesser ones total watts being equal. There really isn't a sub out there anymore that does extremely well with less than 300W RMS unless it's IB. Generally you want to run double the drivers thermal RMS simply so the amplifier will have plenty of headroom to meet the requirements, while you can get away with less the results won't be as good. 

I feel a "good enough" mentality is a good thing when talking price to performance ratio, as most upper end stuff is well overpriced in this industry. But there is always a line drawn somewhere, some people think stock is good enough, some are happy with entry level coaxs, or whatever. Can't blame a person for wanting more or working toward that, that's the only thing driving the industry to put out good products, and while that may not seem to apply to the guy buying $150 subs, it really does. Think of how much better JL's entry level stuff has gotten since they created DMA and other technologies for the W7, as well as other manufacturers, the entry level, mid level, high end stuff tends to get the benefit of the trickle down from their best stuff. That's why a W6v2 isn't a big step down from a W7, and a W1v2 is MUCH better than a W0 was.


----------



## briansz

For the $60 I gave for my used XR650Csi components and $80 for a used 12W6v2, I'm tickled with the results. Is it the best system I've heard? No. Is it the best system I've owned (particularly for the cash invested)? Yes. I didn't set out to buy a JL system, it's just the deals I've found and gear I can live with.

I'd never have spent $750+ on this stuff new, but I appreciate the engineering that went into it.

Sure it's popular to bash the bigger players, but I drove 300 miles to buy a JL 8" sub back in 1991 or so to see what all the fuss was about in the magazines. JL was a niche player back then like a lot of the other favorite companies are today. 

For the most part, I feel JL produces a good product. Is the W6v2 as good as the Oz Matrix Elite I have on the way? We'll see. So far the W6v2 has gone back in the car after I've tested everything else I can get my hands on.


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## npdang

Looks like a great woofer. What's the peak to peak throw on these babies?


----------



## rockondon

*Re: JL AUDIO ZR800-CW vs. Peerless SLS 830667*



WLDock said:


> *JL AUDIO ZR800-CW vs. Peerless SLS 830667*
> 
> Here are some pics of the driver next to the SLS. The specs on the JL looks as good as the SLS and I like the fact that they are 4 Ohms and need less depth. The JL also has a larger voice coil and a stronger motor. I plan to do a review down the line. I might even grab a set of the Dayton Refs and SEAS EXCEL from friends to compare also?
> 
> With grill frame on:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Side w/ grill frame on:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With grill frame off:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Side with grill frame off:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SLS - 3.93" depth ______________________________________________________ZR800-CW - 3.39" depth
> 
> I did not show bottom pics but as we all know the SLS has the bumped back plate which adds to the rear depth. The ZR800 OTOH has a large vent at the bottom. Will see how the different motors compare...or which pounds the best under stress. I only plan to use 110 watts a side so I want to make the most of it.




^^^^^ Still waiting ^^^^^


----------



## ClassicCoupe

*Re: JL AUDIO ZR800-CW vs. Peerless SLS 830667*



rockondon said:


> ^^^^^ Still waiting ^^^^^



Me too. 

Very interested in what people think about this driver.

I'm considering putting a pair of these on subwoofer duty (~30 Hz - ~80 Hz).


----------



## hc_TK

interested in how these would compare to my alpine f1 mids


----------



## flomofo

*Re: JL AUDIO ZR800-CW vs. Peerless SLS 830667*



ClassicCoupe said:


> Me too.
> 
> Very interested in what people think about this driver.
> 
> I'm considering putting a pair of these on subwoofer duty (~30 Hz - ~80 Hz).



I'm in the same boat, I really want to try these on my rear deck in my new 
g8 gt to replace the stockers.

It seems like I might get a good combo of SQ and output while maintaining my main goal of little modification and mostly re-using stock placement for this latest victim.

I've looked at using 2 8" woofers IB before, but I really want to try it this time, otherwise its a small sealed enclosure for me again...


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## Spasticteapot

hc_TK said:


> interested in how these would compare to my alpine f1 mids


Aren't those custom-spec ScanSpeak Revelators?

Not much is an upgrade from those.


----------



## Spasticteapot

Tirefryr said:


> These look great in all regards!
> 
> To all the haters, I'd like to see someone show us one bad JL product. . .



JL Audio 10W1v2-8 10" 150W 8-Ohm Subwoofer


----------



## WLDock

Double Post


----------



## WLDock

Well...where do I start? I have been listening to both drivers and they both jam! Running either a single ZR800 or the SLS in a small sealed box powered with about 60-80 watts produced enough output for dancing in my large basement...Just so much more output than a 6 1/2" driver. I even used them as a bass replacement driver in my old SONY SS-TL5 4-way transmission line speakers....These have an 8" bass driver on back that vents through an acoustic labyrinth and port out to the front: 

http://www.thevintageknob.org/SONY/sonyvault/SSTL5/SSTL5.html 

OMG! there was SO much more output and punch over the stock SONY 8" driver. Both drivers worked pretty well in that application. Overall, both held together on complex upright bass and synth material. I listened to all types of stuff and both seem capable of going down low. I also played test tones through the drivers and both were fairly quiet. It was tough to compare them side-by-side due to the impedance difference. The ZR800 seemed louder...even when I adjusted the volume up for the SLS. Anyway, I think I would be fine with either driver given that fact that both are nice midbasses and also the fact that I have 31 bands of EQ. However, I need to decide which to run but I really need to hear both drivers in the mounting location in the car...but that won't happen as I have to return the SLS drivers. Nonetheless, I was set on putting them in the doors but these have such a kick that it will be VERY hard to control the door. I am wondering if they will fit in the kick panels? I guess that is for me to figure out and not bore you guys with. 

The ZW800 is a very capable midbass and plays clean up to some respectable levels. I think the 4 Ohm load and 3.39" depth might work out better for some? I won't say which I think is a better driver out of the two because they are both nice yet have differences. If you are thinking of getting these and don't already have 8's, what are you waiting for? If you have the Peerless SLS already and are considering these, keep what you have unless there are issues with the drivers in your install or you are like me...you want to try them side by side.


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## [email protected]

WLDock said:


> Double Post


So for the price difference, and this only, do you think it is worth it?


----------



## WLDock

Well, that is a VERY hard one to answer. The SLS is such a nice driver but it is a raw 8 Ohm home audio driver....it really is in a different market. The JL O.T.O.H. is in what I see as a small segment car audio market. There are not a lot of quality 4 Ohm dedicated 8" midbass out there yet large numbers of consumers that want to run a dedicated 8" midbass. There are cheaper 8's in the car audio market and there are more expensive 8's as well in comparison to the JL. SO......The way I see it...the Peerless is a value in the raw driver market, The JL performs very well and is priced about what we all expect for car audio and the JL name, quality, and engineering. In contrast, many will say skip the car audio drivers and home driver and select a high efficiency pro audio driver to deliver some "REAL" midbass with SERIOUS kick. 

Is it worth the price over the SLS? You have to consider the driver parameters vs. the enclosure or mounting space planned, the mounting depth, the power needed. Having said that, both are clean, smooth, go low, have decent punch, kick, and snap. I would have to say it would be worth it if you choose it because of one of the characteristics that the SLS does not have. Maybe you have a small sealed enclosure planned....I think the SLS or another driver might work out better? Maybe you plan to put them in large doors IB....the JL might work out better? Maybe you want some nice snap with only 100 watts @ 4 Ohms...maybe the JL is better? 

You get the point? The SLS is so good for the money that you have to want the JL to justify the price difference. I really am not sure which I will run as I need to sort out a mounting scheme. The other factor is power...I can run either 90 watts a side or 180 watts a side at 4 Ohms.


----------



## [email protected]

WLDock said:


> Well, that is a VERY hard one to answer. The SLS is such a nice driver but it is a raw 8 Ohm home audio driver....it really is in a different market. The JL O.T.O.H. is in what I see as a small segment car audio market. There are not a lot of quality 4 Ohm dedicated 8" midbass out there yet large numbers of consumers that want to run a dedicated 8" midbass. There are cheaper 8's in the car audio market and there are more expensive 8's as well in comparison to the JL. SO......The way I see it...the Peerless is a value in the raw driver market, The JL performs very well and is priced about what we all expect for car audio and the JL name, quality, and engineering. In contrast, many will say skip the car audio drivers and home driver and select a high efficiency pro audio driver to deliver some "REAL" midbass with SERIOUS kick.
> 
> Is it worth the price over the SLS? You have to consider the driver parameters vs. the enclosure or mounting space planned, the mounting depth, the power needed. Having said that, both are clean, smooth, go low, have decent punch, kick, and snap. I would have to say it would be worth it if you choose it because of one of the characteristics that the SLS does not have. Maybe you have a small sealed enclosure planned....I think the SLS or another driver might work out better? Maybe you plan to put them in large doors IB....the JL might work out better? Maybe you want some nice snap with only 100 watts @ 4 Ohms...maybe the JL is better?
> 
> You get the point? The SLS is so good for the money that you have to want the JL to justify the price difference. I really am not sure which I will run as I need to sort out a mounting scheme. The other factor is power...I can run either 90 watts a side or 180 watts a side at 4 Ohms.


I get what you are saying, i was more trying to imply that if you could give each ample power and had the space to handle either installed, whether it be an enclosure or IB, would it be justified for the price of the JL, but I would have to think not and I think thats what you are kinda saying above.


----------



## shinjohn

Walt,
Thanks for some quick input on your review! Good to get some opinions on the two against each other.



WLDock said:


> However, I need to decide which to run but I really need to hear both drivers in the mounting location in the car...but that won't happen as I have to return the SLS drivers.


If you need more time, or want to work out a deal on the drivers so you can keep them, ping me via PM.  LOL..... Don't we all need more speakers to keep around?



WLDock said:


> Nonetheless, I was set on putting them in the doors but these have such a kick that it will be VERY hard to control the door. I am wondering if they will fit in the kick panels? I guess that is for me to figure out and not bore you guys with.


I think this is the single biggest problem for using an 8" mid bass. The two best solutions I think I've seen are:
1) cut out the kick or floor of your car to mount the 8" driver (ouch)
2) sealed up door enclosure, a la Jon Whiteledge

The door panels I/we used for the 8" midbass comparison (Peter's old 8" door panels) simply weren't solid enough for the job. The door panels were not rigidly mounted to the metal, and even if they were, there would have been a host of other rattle issues to deal with. It's NOT a small amount of work to do this right IMO.


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## DS-21

WLDock said:


> Well, that is a VERY hard one to answer. The SLS is such a nice driver but it is a raw 8 Ohm home audio driver....it really is in a different market.


Without saying anything about your comparison, I don't see what the impedance or intended niche has to do with anything important to the end user. 

All an "8Ω" driver means vis a vis a "4Ω" driver is that one's amp will run a little cooler with the 8Ω driver. Otherwise, it is a distinction without a practical difference. (That notwithstanding, with a measured 5.5Ω Re on both of mine, perhaps 6Ω nominal impedance would be a more accurate characterization. Not that it matters one way or the other.)

I could see weather-related durability issues being a distinguishing factor for "car-fi" vs. "home audio," but given that nobody's had an issue with the SLS8 so far as I know (including 4yrs in the doors of a certain ragtop) it is not an issue here.

A driver is a driver is a driver. All that matters is that one knows how to use it.



WLDock said:


> Maybe you have a small sealed enclosure planned....I think the SLS or another driver might work out better? Maybe you plan to put them in large doors IB....the JL might work out better?


Current production may be different, but my SLS8's (pre-Madisound, when they were OEM only) are decidedly not suited to small sealed boxes. With a relatively weak motor (Qes of ~0.86 measured) and a Qts basically perfect for high-fidelity I-B (~.6 measured) the SLS8 really shines in I-B or large-for-a-modern-8 boxes.



WLDock said:


> Maybe you want some nice snap with only 100 watts @ 4 Ohms...maybe the JL is better?


~40wpc at 8Ω (75W/8Ω) is more than enough to get "snap" from the SLS8, so it does not strike me that having ~60-70W (100W/4Ω) should make any difference. What might is if one of the two drivers were substantially more efficient than the other. Is that the case?

Also, I'm curious. With the arrival of the Trio8, what made you decide to go with the JL? The Trio8 is cheaper than the ZR800, and on paper (assuming EQ to properly tailor the low-end FR to the application) the Trio8 should have more potential output as well as having the potential for greater linearity across up to its maximum output than either the SLS8 or JL ZR800.


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## FoxPro5

DS-21 said:


> A driver is a driver is a driver. All that matters is that one knows how to use it.


Thanks for the update, Cptn Obvious. 

Overstating the obvious aside, you're absolutely right. So the thing is, you cannot expect much more than pure frustration and pulling fist-fulls of hair out of your head if you take an IB woofer like the ZR800 and mount it to some "well-deadened and sealed" doors. What does that even mean? 

Unfortunately a lot of us are sort of stuck with the door as the only location so we have to make the best of it. And, doing so means you MUST {IMHO} go the extra steps to make the door a damn tomb. It takes time, money and knowing what, when and how to make magic happen...not cutting an MDF ring and throwing some "deadener" down...maybe "sealing" it a little. If you're not willing to do it, you're living a MB pipe dream. 



> Also, I'm curious. With the arrival of the Trio8, what made you decide to go with the JL? The Trio8 is cheaper than the ZR800, and *on paper* (*assuming *EQ to *properly *tailor the low-end FR to the application) the Trio8 *should *have more *potential *output as well as having the *potential *for greater linearity across up to its maximum output than either the SLS8 or JL ZR800.


Papers and specs don't make sound, the speaker does. Must....use.....to....answer.....question.........your..........self...... Your assumptions are too assumptive.


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## WLDock

DS-21 said:


> Also, I'm curious. With the arrival of the Trio8, what made you decide to go with the JL? The Trio8 is cheaper than the ZR800, and on paper (assuming EQ to properly tailor the low-end FR to the application) the Trio8 should have more potential output as well as having the potential for greater linearity across up to its maximum output than either the SLS8 or JL ZR800.


 DS-21, man you come up with some really good points...I am challenged as to what to say. I just agree that the SLS is such a nice speaker but I don't want to put off others on the JL because it was good as well. As far as price....That is an individual thing. Some guys have deep pockets, some don't...the latter would be me.

Anyway, I actually bought the JL's before I found out about the Trio8's...You know I want to check them out...but the wife is starting to notice the collection growing so I have to buy and sell to check out stuff.


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## DS-21

WLDock said:


> DS-21, man you come up with some really good points...I am challenged as to what to say. I just agree that the SLS is such a nice speaker but I don't want to put off others on the JL because it was good as well. As far as price....That is an individual thing. Some guys have deep pockets, some don't...the latter would be me.


No need to say anything. My intention was not to comment on your comparison, or to promote one driver over the other. (No personal stake in either Tymphany or Jello.) And they are in different markets, which is to say that one is distributed locally, and unless one happens to live in Madison, WI the other is not. For some, especially those who are not willing to put in the effort that FP5 rightly notes is required to turn doors into a good-sounding launching-pad for midbass and will thus be relying on a shop to do so, that matters. (The cost of the driver in such a case also pales next to the cost of labor, anyway.) Also, just from pics, there's no question the Jello _looks_ considerably more expensive than the SLS8 (though not the Trio8 based on the driver sitting ~10" to the right of my right hand right now), and that matters to some as well.

But things like differing impedance are really just red herrings. It's an easy number to read, which is why marketers like it. 



WLDock said:


> Anyway, I actually bought the JL's before I found out about the Trio8's...You know I want to check them out...but the wife is starting to notice the collection growing so I have to buy and sell to check out stuff.


Fair enough. That makes a good deal of sense. Cheers for the heads up on the Trio8's, though. Mine are slated to leave my desk and go into my doors the week after I get back from the Inauguration!


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## DS-21

FoxPro5 said:


> Papers and specs don't make sound, the speaker does.


But the speaker doesn't characterize the sound it makes. Speaker measuring has come far enough today, IMO, that if one knows her/his preferences one can predict with near-perfect accuracy given appropriate measurements whether or not s/he will like a particular drive-unit in a given application.




FoxPro5 said:


> Must....use.....to....answer.....question.........your..........self...... Your assumptions are too assumptive.


Well, barring some design or build quality flaw, I don't think it at all "too assumptive" to posit that a driver with more stroke, a motor design that promotes a more linear BL over said stroke, and a considerably lower ratio of inductance to nominal impedance will be truer to the original source material. Of course, having seen some measurements, I also know that to get there will require EQ on the low end to get the frequency response as strong re: the next couple octaves up down low as a weaker motor (higher Qes) driver would do naturally, due to not having the motor strength to be more efficient up high. So that's possibly added cost and possibly an added box.


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## WLDock

DS-21 said:


> Mine are slated to leave my desk and go into my doors the week after I get back from the Inauguration!


Lucky you! I don't even think my sister has tickets to one of the balls at this time(I need to check again)...Even though my brother-in-law is a Secret Service agent in DC...He is not on the Pres detail but will be working I am sure. He actually met Obama while on the Biden detail and Obama was like "this is the guy I want on my detail." My brother-in-law is black, about Obama's complextion, 6' 5" tall, and slim. No surpprise there...I figured they would want more tall agents given his 6' 2" height. Anyway, he has a gravy law related position with the SS agency so I don't think he will be going back on a detail...But still.....It's crazy the number of people that plan to go or have tickets but have yet to secure a place to stay. :surprised:They are arout 40 miles outside of DC and have been getting calls from friends and family looking for a place to stay... Sounds like an event of a lifetime...I would really love to be there....makes me proud of this Country.


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## DS-21

WLDock said:


> Lucky you! I don't even think my sister has tickets to one of the balls at this time(I need to check again)...


We don't have inaug tix, just Mid-Atlantic Ball. But that's good enough for me. GF would get annoyed fighting the crowds to get home and get ready, anyway. I suppose I will technically be dressed "wrong" because the trousers of my white-tie getup have two braids instead of one. For some reason, one stripe is American and Japanese convention, and two stripes is what everyone else in the world does. But I will probably be the only straight man there to notice that kind of thing, anyway!



WLDock said:


> Even though my brother-in-law is a Secret Service agent in DC...


That's pretty damn cool. Must be a badass.



WLDock said:


> It's crazy the number of people that plan to go or have tickets but have yet to secure a place to stay.


Luckily, my GF's parents live in Georgetown, so that's an easy call.



WLDock said:


> Sounds like an event of a lifetime...I would really love to be there....makes me proud of this Country.


My mom called it "your generation's Woodstock." And hopefully it will be a weekend to begin to pick up some of the pride this country has lost during the full frontal assault on its ideals and battery of its institutions that marked the last 8 years.


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## mxlu

thanks for the review.


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## md0u8142

thanks for al the info guys, was thinking of getting these for my system, but didn't have any reliable input on them apart from the usual 'shop talk'/'trying to sell me stuff talk', so its good to see this thread!

hoping to possibly get some of these in the near future, but was wondering about puting them in the doors. some people sem to think it may be a bad idea due to install difficulties, and some say do it, hmmmmm will have to see if they fit in my car first!

cheers for the info! (woohoo 1st post!)

Ash


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## WLDock

PM me if anyone is interested in a set of these.

Walt


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## Sofaking_Cody

I'm interested in getting one of these and will probably be getting a dedicated amp to power it since my entire setup is run off of a JL 500/5. Additionally, I'm only replying to this so I can create a topic about some questions I have because I currently have no posts. Thanks for the info Manville.


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## faiz23

wont fit in my crossfire stock location it only take 6.5" darn it


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## w00tah

Dangerranger said:


> People said the same about Brahmas and other similar highly linear subwoofers when they came out.
> 
> In the case of the W7, I really think that the big reason behind people thinking it sounds "bloated" is simply due to massive low end output combined with the low distortion of the W7's design. Most other subs out there are very low Qts designs that don't have the same level of low end unless you go ported with them, which again, people start to complain about them sounding "bloated". If you EQ down the low end offered you not only get them sounding great, you also cut the required amplifier power and the excursion of the sub. Gets nothing but better.
> 
> The other aspect is lower harmonic distortion, which people on a lot of levels simply aren't accustomed to. Give people a design that has more output around 60-80hz and rolls off and they perceive it as "tight". In a lot of ways, harmonic distortion effectively adds spectral content at higher frequencies, and I simply don't think people are used to the absence of this (not really "absence" but a much lower level of harmonic content).


You know, I see your point, but I still think that in JL recommended enclosures, the w6v2 still sounds better to my ears, even without EQ'ing or tuning.




Kef


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## Silver2003srt4

I felt I had to chime in here...about JL and all its haterz

The reason so many people hate JL is because it is quite a bit more main stream, and the so called"high end" guys think that they are better because it cost more.

SO WRONG

It also goes back to one of my cars I have ....a Neon SRT4 I always get guys who think their Vettes, Porsche, Ferrari, and whatever luxury sports car you want to buy they think their car is so fast... and cool

LOL well when I can out drive them, out drag race them, and flat out embarrass them because they just lost to a "Neon"... a Neon that I would like to add that is equipped with JL so not only when I am done beating their cars in races at the track of course, I can pull over and embarrass their "sweet stereo system" and laugh my whole way home


Sorry to all Haterz

Newbie

Jeremy


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## hc_TK

wtf?


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## macmovieman

Well I read all 4 pages and I am really thinking about adding these to my doors in the Mustang. I have been considering the Dynaudio 362, the Hertz, and Focal but I am really thinking about the JL set up. I like that I can add the 8" midbass, add the 5 inch mid and the tweeters all to the door. I might even add their 5 x 7s to the rear for fill. Then the Stealthbox in the truck with a Kenwood head unit. I need to find some smaller amps that have lots of power to drive everything. I am really thinking about 2 of these smaller NX4s.


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## Redcloud

msmith said:


> We are neither the biggest or the smallest company in car audio, but nobody puts more into engineering and quality than we do. Nobody. Inspect the glue joints and the assembly quality of any of our speakers and compare them to any other. Not to mention all the patented technologies and extra parts that are in our speaker. And we build most of our drivers in our factory in the USA. This costs a bit more, but it's worth it to us.
> 
> Here are some photos of the W7 production line: Home Audio Powered Subwoofers - JL Audio
> 
> If you don't like the way a W7 sounds, you may have heard it in the wrong box or with a system tune that was out of whack. The W7 is "good enough" to be used in our flagship home subwoofers which have received numerous awards from snobby audiophile home publications, like the Absolute Sound and Stereophile, among many others. Look here: Home Audio Powered Subwoofers - JL Audio
> It is also the best-selling premium subwoofer of all time, because it is one hell of a good subwoofer driver.
> 
> The old line about "every high school schmuck" implies that all we do is rely on our name... well, that name's reputation came from making great products and is maintained by making great products. Are they a bit more expensive than some others... Sure. But there is substance there, real substance. Just look at the ZR800-CW's Klippel curves for proof of that.


I have always been impressed with JL Audio products. The quality and presentation of their products is second to none IMO. It's nice to see some things are still made in america.


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## fred2ka4

This is my first post on this forum and I came upon this thread and site by chance. I have a 2000 Audi A4 with a nice little system consisting of Alpine, JL Audio, & MB Quart. The sub consists of a JL Audio Stealth Box with (2) JL IB4 8 woofers. I like the design of the enclosure but desire a little more on the low end. I have been debating on the Peerless SLS and the JL Audio ZX800, as well as the 02 Audio 8" and I appreciate the time and effort into this comparison as it has been very informative and has helped to narrow the choices. I have a pair of Kicker SSMB8's that I am going to try as well just to do a comparison but I have narrowed the choices down considerably with the help of this comparison. 

- Fred


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## quality_sound

If anyone's interested, I'll be selling my ZR800s. They won't fit in my M3s OEM location.


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## fish

quality_sound said:


> If anyone's interested, I'll be selling my ZR800s. They won't fit in my M3s OEM location.


I might be. How did you like them compared to other MB's you've used in the past?

Did you post any comments about them somewhere on here before?

What price point are you looking at?


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## quality_sound

I compared them directly to the RS225s that were in the door before them. I preferred the ZR800 as it sounded more like a true midbass rather than a mini sub IMO.


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## Boostedrex

quality_sound said:


> I compared them directly to the RS225s that were in the door before them. I preferred the ZR800 as it sounded more like a true midbass rather than a mini sub IMO.


I can vouch for that same comparison in his car. The ZR800 had a great snappy attack to it compared to the RS225's that were in the door. I was actually quite impressed with the JL. IMHO, the RS225 really needs to be in an enclosure to be used to it's full potential.


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## fish

Cool, thanks QS & Zach.

Not sure if either one of you have heard the SLS8, but from what I've gathered it seems the JL would have more "snap" than the Peerless? Afterall, it is a sub.


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## fred2ka4

What price range are you looking at for the set? I am very interested as these would be a direct drop in for my JL Audio Stealth box.


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## quality_sound

Guys, these are tentatively sold. I'll update if it falls through. 

Zach is absolutely correct about the RS225s. I could not do an enclosure for the 225s so the JLs worked better for me.


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## wgovan

Just picked up a set of the zr800. They will be installed on Wednesday to compliment a 3-way setup, rear fill and 2 10w6v2. Doing the entire system with 2 hd900/5. Cant wait


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## 2500LSS

wgovan said:


> Just picked up a set of the zr800. They will be installed on Wednesday to compliment a 3-way setup, rear fill and 2 10w6v2. Doing the entire system with 2 hd900/5. Cant wait




I've been bouncing off the walls here - we have very similar setups, I'm ordering my ZR800's this friday - I bought/ordered my HD 900/5 this past monday, stereo shop should have it by the weekend.. so, once all my new stuff arrives the end of next week - and the install is completed over the weekend, my system will consist of...


ehhh . . . 'bout 1100watts, pushing 11 speakers; in a quad cab Ram . . . 




___

Eclipse 8051 8V pre-out head unit
___

{front door 3-way} - using JL Audio HD 900/5's, "300/4" capability

JL Audio ZR-650 CSi seperates (w/ crossovers)
JL Audio ZR800 down low in the front doors (we have to make some wooden panels)

(obviously, 2 dedicated channels driving ZR650's, 2 dedicated channels driving ZR800's, "as recommended" by JL)

___

{rear door 2-way} - using a nice older Eclipse 4-channel amp i have

JL Audio C5-5.25 seperates (w/ crossovers)

___

{single 12" sub} - using the JL Audio HD 900/5's, "500/1" capability

JL Audio 12W6V2 in an HD ported enclosure (...and, yes, my subwoofer box sits on the floor, and takes up almost the entire rear of the quad cab.) 


Naturally, we'll do some dynomatting, adding some rubber washers & other soundproofing, some wiring upgrades, and report back. 






.............I CAN'T FREAKING WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## adrenalinejunkie

Great info in here. Thanks to those who contributed.


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