# Pyle PLWB155 SVC 15" - a pair mounted IB



## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Yes I said Pyle sub! 
















In good DIY practice, lets see how this hog stacks up. Please find photos and general information and jokes here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/off-topic/80476-budget-pyle-15-sub-1-000w-power.html
As well as my model plot (at 400rms) and what I thought it would do, which is perform lower than the quad IB Infinity 12s (that I took out, photos in other thread) at around the same output down there. I prefer LP around 50Hz for IB most of the time. Trying to get something useful here I will add to this and do a build thread for the install, but just did some testing want to get that down.

Amp at present: Alpine MRD-M500, 500RMS @ 2 ohms.
Previous setup: Kicker 700.5, 420RMS @ 2ohms on four Infinity 1252w/1262w 12" DVC in baffle into seat, 4x70 highs
HU: Pioneer 880PRS
Sub mounting: plain baffle in seat opening, non flip seat, closed off deck, 3/4 ply and strand board, doubled in some areas but there is not much area left with the 15s.

Pair of Pyle PLWB155 that were $94 total TMD off Amazon.
From manual/booklet with subs:
Power 1,000 peak - hard to say what that means but I guessed 500rms, so 250 IB, so 200 IB since they are maybe overrated.
SVC 4 ohm, 2.5" VC, 100oz magnet
*Fs 20 Hz* - great for IB
Qms 5
Qes .91
*Qts .7* - great for IB
SPL dB 86 - kinda low, my only worry here, well and durability of course
Vas cf 5.1
Depth: 7.36", mount depth 6.64
Diameter: 15.52", mount dia 14.32 (cutout for)
Included a couple die cut cardboard holes for your cutout in packing.

Mounted into seat (around 1" from seat foam, but seat out sounds the same to me). All observations by ear for this post.

Playing tones with the EQ flat and LP at 200Hz with volume at 20 out of about a 50 max the way gains are now: can't hear 20Hz that well (maybe 25% output) but it comes on say 75% at 25Hz. At 30Hz it is about 95%. At 45-50Hz it seems to peak at 100% then pull back to 95% above that (not much difference just a little less output). It seems to hit 100% again at 80-90Hz and just a hair below it (95+%) above that, though my mids were coming in it stayed pretty level. All in all response from 30 up was fairly level, it didn't sound that bad with no LP at all though the 80Hz and above was a little strong for me. On a sweep 20-100Hz it did the same, came on at ~24Hz and near level at 28 without much variation there on up.

Compared to the 12s I had in there, they would blow me out of the car at 50+Hz compared to 30Hz and would only give this smooth a response with significant EQ action including 50Hz LP on the HU _AND_ on the amp. Right now I'm still playing with the phase and xovers on HU and amp, the amp goes under 50Hz my old one did not. But every time I change the slope/xover/phase it changes the gain and EQ so I've not really settled on what I want yet (have MB issues) however it needs less EQ than before without doubt. Also have not stood on them hard figured I would get some break in time first, but have run it up to the max the 4x50 highs will do with heavy bass and the output looks to be close to the 12s at least. Found a squeak noise near one sub but it appears to be something in the rear deck not the sub (from in the trunk) also the deck cover starts flapping near the glass at high output have to foam it yet. The whole deck/glass vibrates there. I can feel the bass through the car, I'm sure the people next door heard it.

Seems strange it drops off from 25 to 20Hz, I already took out a Kenwood that had a subsonic in it that would not play 20. This Alpine seems to play it with the SS turned off, but there is still a rolloff. So the 20Hz is up 2 on the EQ from everything else. Also when I turn it up far as I do now, the amp only shows like 5A draw the one time I checked, so its not putting out much power (I'll get a DMM on it)....but the gain is pretty high only 1-2 settings left higher. The xmax is not that high at that level, but you can feel the bass through the car, that is a great sign. I never play it that much louder, so I'd say I have 80-90% of the output I want. It will play over the highs if I crank it any more. It does seem to play more down to 20Hz at louder volumes, maybe I tested at too quiet a setting it was not that loud but higher tones are something I don't like loud. Seems it would be the amp or the volume, because I did play tones on one sub bare with a little dual amp and there was not much drop off I could detect. 

Later I turned all my gains down so I could just max the HU at 62, then turned on the loudness. It helped, but anyway I want to put down the response naked with no EQ or anything so people can get an idea what they do, I'm sure I can EQ it to my liking.

Another issue is as SPL goes up you get to a point where it will not at 20Hz due to xmax, but will higher Hz. Then I've run out of sub, so I hope to get the output I need before that happens. I think the model will hold true it has been close so far. The 12s model to do similar, the problem is I don't really know the xmax on these. I did measure over an inch on the 170rms unmounted, that seems to be pretty good and I'm not near that in the car yet with fair output.

I'd say if they meet your needs you can't go wrong for the price. Note my goals were some good output but not mega loud, down to 20 Hz, and multiple 15s with a low Fs ~20 and high Qts ~.7 that are ideal for IB use. Since a pair of 15s is kind of overkill for that, thus figured I would try some cheaper subs. I started at pyramids and looked all around, there are not many cheap subs ideal for IB use most have lower Qts that gives you a lot of rolloff on the bottom. These also have stitched tinsels and look fairly well built with a heavy non-pressed paper cone that I prefer for IB use (maybe habit from the old days but subs are better now).

The idea was also to lose some weight from the quad 12s. Not sure what else to say yet, trying to build the amp rack soon and will run more power to the highs so I can use more of the subs. Assume 500rms will be all I need, in fact I have a 350rms I was hoping to use that is smaller. Some amps don't do 20 Hz well though, I may have to swap amps until I find one that will. I don't think its the subs there was a big difference when I took the Kenwood out. That would be fine for a box but not what I want here. I had an Alpine MRV-F345 4x75rms in there on highs and it was sounding good but the cooling fan would not work it needs repair. This 4x50 is a Dragster and actually seems very close to the Alpine in output...and the fan works. The Pyles had no problem keeping up with either of those amps on four doors, though the rears are dialed back. Same boston comps in front, found some alpine type S coax for the rears at the moment.

I did yank the magnet covers off and put them on upside down, since I mounted to have the terminals at the top near the amp rack. They have some hot glue/etc on them, may have to slop more on if the vibrate or something. The one I tested on 170rms sinewaves didn't seem to vibrate that hard unmounted.


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

you need to paint a bunch of flames on your car to match now!! thats a cool find with those subs. Another option to go IB and a budget one at that. 
Thanks for the info. let us know if they improve with break in.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Flames lol, thinking a panel to cover them up would be better....though I really don't care either way, if they work well is what I really care about. I could have spray canned them black.

I'm 90% the idea its the amp stifling 20Hz, it is very common. I really don't want to wire up the 5ch to compare, but I can check the Alpine with the DMM and run some other amps. If the voltage is lower at 20 obviously it is cutting it.

Yes the price on these is crazy, you could spend more on a single 10 in a box that made far less bass (I just took a temp MTX 4510 out). These dish it out at 30Hz while half asleep and I'll figure out 20Hz soon, it should not be weaker like it is the 12s didn't do that aside from the natural rolloff they had there. I can EQ it up now but something is going on. Kind of wanted to run the Alpine amps I'll be bent if they can't get down. Have an Infinity 600rms I can try.

Also the super cheap 10 and 12 pyles also seem to be for IB, they are red or blue cones and like <$20 each. If you don't need a lot of output and/or can use multiple subs IB...they will work you just can't thrash them as hard. Multiple lower xmax cheap subs can have good output and low distortion IB because each one is loafing, makes great SQ. To be honest I don't really care (within reason) what these sound like when xmax gets big, because they will be louder than I would listen to music at...but that is always fun once in a while. If you need huge output or have single/smaller subs then spend away. I used to run quad pyramid 10s IB way back, but they don't make that sub anymore it was a heavy paper 10. In a car with good cabin gain they really performed for 10s and would fit in near any car. They didn't get as low as these 15s of course.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Did some playing around with it this weekend, now I'm thinking its just the car. With some limited EQ I have it so on a 0-100 slow sweep it picks up at 23Hz, fairly good output at 25Hz, and by 28Hz it is about level all the way up beyond that. Because I can play a 20Hz (mind you had the windows all down) and get the seat flopping yet can't hear/feel much...so it can't be the amp or speakers in that case right? I know I had at least 1" of total xmax at 20Hz and in the car it just does much of nothing. Had the same issue with the quad 12s. However like I said it is more EQ friendly I don't have to cut the 50Hz and boost the 20-30Hz like I did with the 12s...or not near as much. Also need to try it with the windows up.

On another side note, since this was a screw off project anyway, I totally forgot to cut 4" holes in the baffle for plugs. I was going to try porting the whole trunk just to see what happened. In the model it pumps up ~30Hz really nicely but I'm not counting on that being reality. I might be able to cut them in-car when I get the time. I have plenty of 30 what I need is under that, lol.

Right now with the dragster 4x50 right at/under clipping and the HU maxed, I can have piles of bass down to ~25Hz. Have to dig out some more music I am very familiar with to get picky with them but I can't complain yet. Running 50Hz LP and 12dB slope right now....pretty flat and deep, no boom here at all just the way I like it. They will put out more at 50Hz I have that EQ down just a little, but even with LP at 80 or something they don't SPL me out of the car like the 12s did. For normal music listening up to anything the 4x50 can put out, they are very capable. Also was showing around 10A draw on the sub amp on normal music think it was phil collins with the HU at 60 out of 62. No its not super loud but likely as much as you ever really need in a car, windows down on the highway there is no road noise and certainly more bass than it should have anywhere under 50Hz.

I should add, I did play a bass music CD yesterday and crank the sub level way up. It has output I will never need for music, the rear deck was making all kinds of noises really have to fix that. The entire rear seatback was vibrating in and out, it was kind of funny. Friend of mine was there about 20' away, he laughed, said it sounds louder outside the car than the 12s did for sure. I would need huge power on highs to keep up with that and figure 125 would be all I will put in a car now. I don't know much about Dragster other than they are Italian, but this 4x50 seems pretty stout for 50rms/ch. This amp: http://www.dealtime.co.uk/xPF-Dragster-DRAGSTER-4-CHANNEL-POWER-AMPLIFIER-DAB-4050-50Wx4-RMS


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Looks like that post was lost to the reboot....but are they any good?

Verdict so far is they work pretty well. Understand I am looking for SQ in the sense that I want full response to 20Hz or low as I can get in the car and that seems to be 23Hz on a sweep, 25 and up usable. To me response is SQ with subs, if they go louder than I need then odds are I don't have distortion issues under that. With a 4x50 on highs the 30Hz can overpower them easily, nice and deep and way too much, just the capabilities I was looking for. When I had the 4x75 alpine that was near the same, same thing happened and I'm sure a 4x100 is not going to keep up. Far as SQ, another point is I only use them 50 and below, they do play higher the handoff is around 60-70Hz. They will play higher yet but I don't like that I prefer mids/midbass to do that job down to 80 at least even though mine are weak right now.

This is a little blunt, but IMO I would use a cardboard box for a sub if it made the sounds I want. SQ is the least important with subs as anything else you just can't hear distortion like higher tones. Mostly what you pay for with subs is to go louder, be more durable, more xmax without distortions from it, to run a small box, etc. With a pair of 15s I get all kinds of output and bottom just from the surface area, cheap subs don't distort until you use their xmax (unless they are total junk with thin cones/etc). With these that does not happen until beyond what my highs can do and if I play bass music to make the back seat move (and shake the car)...I don't care what it sounds like. It does put out some good bass fairly loud but I have nothing to compare it to. Its deeper than the 12s, and remember I have them EQ'd low they would be louder at spl frequencies. Top ten pop/dance music they just crank very ideal for that, I think they are breaking in because it sounds deeper now. Rock they work ok I am very sure deficiencies there are more my weak midbass. It is listenable now, better than the 12s too.

Another current problem is I listened to a CD from about '90 and had the sub level at +6. I turned it on the radio and put the level at -4, the radio EQ is about 3db lower than the CD in bass ranges, and it had more bass anyway. I got to get some better level control for bass this is crazy, and did the same thing with the 12s.

*I did do an install thread on the IB baffle I built for these, I'm sure its the only Pyle install thread lol. It has photos of them in the car.*
Here it is: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...5s-ib-baffle-into-seat-yes-plwb155-pyles.html


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

Reboot? what the heck happened? I thought I was losing my mind!!  all of the posts from last night that I saw and posted are...just...gone! seriously what the heck happened? what did I miss?


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Go in the site section, some admin went rouge and deleted a pile of stuff so they just did a backup and lost 24 hours. You know you have a problem when something on the internet _reall_y means something to you, good or bad. Have a nice weekend y'all :burnout: I'm otta here.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I can't believe I ran out of laughs with my pyles....:worried:......

Just an update I don't drive this car full time but they are still working well, I've hammered on them some but have no idea what power they are getting....I really need to stick a meter on them or something. Want to try the smaller 350rms amp on them if they don't need 500. Just need to find some power wire for my blocks to get it wired better to swap amps easily. Way too much summer stuff going on and a project involving an engine transplant that was more fun than the stereo lol. 

I played with the crossovers a few times and they don't seem to play up high that well, say over 100Hz. Its hard to tell because they kind of roll off up there but I would say they get kind of vague. Something I expected with a heavy pulp cone and possibly higher inductance. Since I run 50Hz LP or close I don't really care, just saying. On the other hand with no LP they don't sound that bad, they keep quiet at higher frequencies by themselves unlike my 12s. The infinity 12s would go nuts 50-100Hz if I didn't cut them down.

As far as the power I can dial them up and they seem to max out, more power does not do much more, so I think that is xmax. This on heavy 30Hz type music. While they are playing that way I can get in the trunk and I don't hear any funny noises from them. I was almost surprised. For what I need they actually turned out to work better than I thought, I figured I would be buying some AEs by now or similar....and still could some day.

It is also hard to judge what output they have because the 12s made more midbass and MB sounds louder than <40 where these do best. One day I put a bass CD in and just cranked it and they got much louder. The gain is all the way up on the alpine but of course the bass CD had much higher bass output than normal CDs. I have a huge problem gaining them right, I have the HU level up and down all the time so an RCA level control (powered one) is looking really appealing. I mean, with the amp gain at max my 5v 880 HU does not have enough level control to run them right....maybe another amp will have more gain I don't know. Either that or I try a bass processor with a level control. I listen to all kinds of stuff and some older music has really weak bass while new top40 someone else likes has huge bass.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

Thanks for the update! Do you think the varying level issue is something to do with a weird frequency response of the woofers? I had roughly the same issue a while back with two 10s in a too-small sealed enclosure. Once I actually bought a better 10, put it in the proper air space, then did some EQ tuning using test tones, the result is my sub gain stays much more consistent over a broader range of music. Turns out the previous box had a crazy peak at like 60-70Hz-ish, so music that was tuned that way (hip-hop radio) made my whole car shake, whereas properly-mixed CDs with more content on either side of that line sounded almost anemic. I'm not saying that's your problem, just that that was the first thing I thought about. B/c I went through having to change the gains every song, and I hated it  

EDIT: After re-reading the whole thread, I see all the EQ work and listening you did initially. Maybe the response is changed slightly now that they are broken in? Or maybe you are just way picky at how you like the bass to sound?


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Problem seems to be source related...I can listen to a CD and its fine, but one radio station to the next or old to new CDs it changes a lot. Some things have lots of bass some don't.

Response is pretty good that is why I changed them after all, the 12s I had to lean on the EQ too hard. I play tones and sweeps and it sounds way smoother from about 60Hz on down where they play.

Hey I think this fabulous design was stolen!
Amazon.com: AudioBahn Excursion AW150T - Car subwoofer driver - 600 Watt - 15": Electronics
Errr, wait, maybe pyle bought the design or made them for AB....lol I bet that is a photo of a 10" though.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Just an update on these, no they didn't smoke yet lol but I don't beat them that often. I had to wait for someone for a while so I started screwing with them. I turned the EQ to flat and changed the xover. I ran them at 100Hz LP/6dB slope and they sounded ok, so they may be fully broken in they used to have more beef at 50-80 I had to back them off. Now they are fairly flat, scarily flat in response actually. I messed with it volume up/down changing music, finally I left them at 80Hz/12dB instead of the previous 50Hz/12dB. I detected a little localization at 100Hz setting but not much. Mind you this is with my somewhat weak midbass, before I had the 80Hz EQ'd up to boost a little to help them out so basically I swapped some midbass to the subs is all. Anyway, ended up messing with it for 45min and set just a little boost at 20Hz and the rest of the EQ is flat. There is a little high spot around 3-5K with some sources but the radio it didn't show up, some CDs it screams there a little....but that is my mids anyway not subs. Front mids are 80HP and rears are 100HP. Above 100Hz they seem to go away even and 200Hz LP was not really different than 100.

Far as the bass level issue, it is a hair better I may have had the gain higher with the 50Hz LP and so it was more sensitive. It still does it not quite as bad. Thinking of a bass processor or the PEQ/xover I had in there before since I can use that on midbass if I go that route. Or I might get a powered level control if I don't get a processor. Not exactly sure what to do there, processor would be fun I love low bass on the other hand most of what I need is just a bass level control. The HU control is not that bad but I would rather have a knob by the shifter/etc.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Thinking about using 4 of these at home in an attic mounted manifold.... Having used them for a bit now, how would you feel about this?


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

chad said:


> Thinking about using 4 of these at home in an attic mounted manifold.... Having used them for a bit now, how would you feel about this?


For a cheap solution I think they would be impressive. I mean don't expect 2" of xmax, but they are not turds either and are stellar for <$50 each. Compared to some IB driver from PE/etc that you can hardly find they should do well. I would be flat out amazed to see a 15 capable as this pair for anywhere near $100.

I have a good spot for some in-wall to a utility room, but that will get a remodel so I can't do it yet. I plan to buy the pyles for that no doubt. If four is not enough then I would simply put 8 in. It is hard to compare the car to HT use, in the car they do all I need to under 30Hz but do drop off under 25 more than I like (but I can't complain at all). Part of that is a 15cf trunk that makes 1.5 times Vas on the pair, so they should reach a little lower with more room. Another part is this car is not that quiet, and hearing 20Hz is kind of iffy anyway. Certainly there is output at 20 I can feel it just can't gauge dB by ear.

The pair seem to have good SQ to the most this 350rms amp can do, SQ does start to suffer when I lean on them hard with 500rms they lose a little of the very bottom just like the SPL graph suggests. But I am going back to 500 or at least 400rms, as the 350 loses some punch at upper but not crazy volumes. I don't think I can hurt them with 350rms in this car, the 500 maybe if I abused them often but they screw up my ears at that point if I run them hard as it will.

With HT I'd go with four and assume low xmax for more SQ, they should work great. If I needed to really hammer 20Hz I might get more but I have no way of knowing how loud four would be in a larger room. Considering boxed 12/15" HT sub performance, four should have no problem moving that kind of air. In fact I have a 400rms 10 in a vented tuned at 27Hz to test amps and it will make the walls rattle, so I imagine quad 15s would be brutal in my house or brutal to most people lol.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Wow, thanks for the reply!

It's not so much for HT rather than to get another octave to 1.5 more out of my JBL 4412's I have mounted in here.

Music only VERY VERY little film use. tiny room too, 20X10 approx.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Likely you might need less output for music, well any kind of SQ-ish listening. They do go a little flat around 100Hz and up. They play it but not loudly. They have a slight peak around 35-40 in the model and it must be close, though I get no peak at 40 in the car it is more at 35Hz, and not much it is fairly flat (w/no EQ but by ear). This car can't have much cabin gain or it is above 50Hz. I have one click up on the EQ at 20Hz the rest of the bass is flat at 0, but I do use the level to manage it.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

The "mains" play SOLID down to 45, possibly lower but keeping them at 45 or a shallow slope just a tad higher will save me some excursion/distortion.

The IB setup will just be for moving air. I plan to have 2 presets in DSP one for FR for the monitors, the other for my tendencies to wander to the right end of the big-knob.

The 4412's are ceiling mounted (suspended) the IB rig will go in the attic and vent down right between them


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Should work perfect, if you hammer them you will have to check xmax. I can't really check in the car but I don't think they get 1" like they did unmounted. At .5" total they are doing a fantastic job in the car. In fact I can't get enough gain except on bass CDs to really hammer them, and I'm not into that stuff. They still put out more than I need lol.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

time to save up some pennies and make this happen


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Ported IB.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bassfromspace said:


> Ported IB.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I want to port my trunk, the model looks awesome flat to 20 with a cut at 30. But it would take a lot of work there really is no room, would have to make multiple smaller ports I think.

Also thinking of putting a single 15 in another car IB through a 6x9 hole, but need to do something with the trim panel there is no hole in that.


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## wvactions (Jun 4, 2013)

I apologize in advance for reviving a 3 year old thread, but what's everyone's opinion on the Pyle PL1590BL? Are they better than what is being recommended in this thread?


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