# Most Preffered SQ amps



## Arezump

Fanatics,

ok..ive no idea whether this has been previously voted earlier, but my hands are itchy on typing up a new thread for this site..well let us see on the result of what are the most preffered SQ amp in the current car audio scene...
Appreciate any effort on voting up the poll..Thanks!!


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## Mooble

I'm a fan of any amp that is basically nothing but a gain block. If I want crossovers, bass boost, or any other crap, I'll handle it at the source. I don't what my amp doing anything but amplifying. 

I'm fondest of Tru, but Brax, Genesis, Sinfoni, do meet that requirement. That's what I loved about Linear Power amps, but the older they are, the noisier they could be. I see Tru as the modern successor to Linear Power.


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## go!tc

Zapco is my choice of amp


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## MarkZ

This belongs in the product selections and comparisons forum.


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## benny

Jamie Armstrong said:


> I have an Audison VRX 4.300 and 1.500 for sale. Great amps. Contact me if interested.


You _still_ haven't read the TOS, huh?


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## go!tc

Jamie Armstrong said:


> Rules on forums are like speed limits. They are the posted speed but most police are going to give you a 5-10 mile buffer. As long as it's not a flat out violation and more of a stretch against the rules then who cares. That is all this was. Some people on these forums just don't have any lives.


naw brah, not here they get on you. A moderator might message you soon.


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## Ultimateherts

He's only doing this to get his post count up so he can post in the classified section. So if we stop responding he'll get the message. And yes I know by posting this I am doing the same thing LOL!


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## MarkZ

Fight the power, dude.


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## ncv6coupe

QUOTE=MarkZ;1129584]Fight the power, dude. [/QUOTE]

:argue::inout:[


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## Ban Hammer

*This is your final warning, Jamie Armstrong.
Attempt to sell items again without posting in the classifieds and without the minimum post count, and you're history.
Strike two.*


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## eng92

One more for Tru to get this thread back on track and I do have a slight bias towards them as well.


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## IXspeed

I don't know if I can cite a single "best" in anything including amplifiers. IMHE, Zapco, Zed-made USA, Xtant, and earlier SS Rubis/Refs (on the low end) are excellent amps.


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## basshead

I have to go with the Arc Audio SE (signature edition), but they are the only high-end amps I've auditioned unless the Steg K serie are considered high-end.

For look the TRU Billet with its TO-3 is hard to beat IMO, but the Helix competition serie are pretty sweet too.


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## sqshoestring

cajunner said:


> I'm a mushroom cloud layin' moofa today..


Today I can quote one of the best quotes I've seen in a while. Glad my chair has arms on it or I would have fell out.:laugh:

I like some strange amps, however all those amps are good. I like old alpines, old sound streams, HK, and some odd balls for some things like certain old blaupunkts and a couple others. The blaupunkts were fantastic on IB subs, but they made some wildly different amps or sometimes had them made for them. Zed made amps and Zapco are great, the old PPI are ok but I hate the goofy plugs and all that on any amp as well as troublesome clamping systems.


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## TrickyRicky

Mooble said:


> I'm a fan of any amp that is basically nothing but a gain block. If I want crossovers, bass boost, or any other crap, I'll handle it at the source. I don't what my amp doing anything but amplifying.
> 
> I'm fondest of Tru, but Brax, Genesis, Sinfoni, do meet that requirement. That's what I loved about Linear Power amps, but the older they are, the noisier they could be. *I see Tru as the modern successor to Linear Power*.


Its still crazy how LP used TWICE as many TO3's and had a lower wattage. And Tru uses on most only 8 or 16 and they put out more wattage. Also the stories I have read from "little bird/s" is that the guys who started Tru stole the idea of having the TO3's mounted upside down for display from LP as they were coming up with the plans. Dont know how true this is but its crazy how Fairchild liked using LP's with Cerwin Vega Stroker's.


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## Arezump

eng92 said:


> One more for Tru to get this thread back on track and I do have a slight bias towards them as well.



Nicey!!


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## IXspeed

eng92 said:


> One more for Tru to get this thread back on track and I do have a slight bias towards them as well.


If you don't mind my asking, what does this setup weigh? Gorgeous, BTW.


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## sqshoestring

You can cap a LP amp and it should be fine. They were nice amps for some uses IMHO, but I didn't like them for everything and find no reason to pay for them for my uses. I had a pair of 1002 I sold to a friend. They do clip nicer. They were (TO3 ones) overbuilt and that is why they are still here. It depends on the specs for the particular TO3 they used, the TO3 is just a case they do have different transistors inside, some handle more power. I rebuilt an old 10A 12v supply and put the new flat transistors on it and tossed the old TO3 that were on it. The newer ones handle more power as well, I had to adjust the sink and bolt them on there. The flat transistors can actually transfer more heat for higher ratings iirc. But hey, run what you like, I like TO3 but not enough to search out amps that use them.


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## eng92

IXspeed said:


> If you don't mind my asking, what does this setup weigh? Gorgeous, BTW.



Thanks.

It weighs 90lbs. I have handles on either side so I can lift it out if I need to access the spare tire underneath.


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## benny

Damn eng, that's quite a lump of equipment! Where in Ontario are you? I'd love to hear it.


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## TrickyRicky

------It weighs 90lbs. I have handles on either side so I can lift it out if I need to access the spare tire underneath.-----


Or makes it easier for the crackhead to take back home. LOL. VERY NICE though. How many channels are you using??


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## sqshoestring

I agree very nice. Reminds me of my quad 12" loaded baffle with the kicker 700.5 on it, not nearly as pretty but what a hunk of lead to install or take out. The subs worked well enough for what I wanted, but was too heavy the car drove different so I took it all out. Could not change amps either nothing else fit, ah well I tried something and it worked but I should have known like I've_ always_ been: in a while I'd want to change something.


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## eng92

benny said:


> Damn eng, that's quite a lump of equipment! Where in Ontario are you? I'd love to hear it.


Thanks,
about 1/2 hr due south of you.

The interior is still very much a work in process. I only have 2 of the 13 speakers installed at the moment.




TrickyRicky said:


> VERY NICE though. How many channels are you using??


Thanks, I am using 11 of the 16 processor channels and 13 of the 14 available amplifier channels. (2 pairs of channels bridged)
3 way active fronts, 2-way active centre, 2 way passive rears, active sub


I will create a build log so as not to clutter the OP's poll thread any further.


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## IBcivic

eng92 said:


> One more for Tru to get this thread back on track and I do have a slight bias towards them as well.


I ''glass'' my shorts, every time you post this pic:surprised:


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## stangman67

tru!


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## IBcivic

11 more posts to go....


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## Arezump

I just love my SE Genny! how i wish i could have another 2 wishes to have another 2 of that bloody amp!errr.. am i getting too biased here?


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## jtaudioacc

I've used McIntosh, Zapco C2K and now Tru Billets in my personal car and my favorite by far are the Tru.


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## Ultimateherts

Zed audio


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## PUREAUDIO

My preffered SQ amp is Lunar amplifiers....


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## DAT

I've used lots of the amps in the polls, I'd say Tru ,or my Favorites below...
*
Diamond Audio D7's* and *ARC SE's*


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## n2caraudio

I am currently reviewing the Arc Audio 4050 XXK and the 2050 XXK. Incredibly accurate sound reproduction. But they are hard to find.


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## Melodic Acoustic

I have used many of the above also and at the moment my two favs are:

Sinfoni Tempo and Arc SE

My favorite amp to date is the Sinfoni Class A Prestigio, wow love this amp, costly but just wonderful.


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## Arezump

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> I have used many of the above also and at the moment my two favs are:
> 
> Sinfoni Tempo and Arc SE
> 
> My favorite amp to date is the Sinfoni Class A Prestigio, wow love this amp, costly but just wonderful.


That class A Sinfoni would cost u a bomb!deadly, like a straight kick to your gooch!


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## Melodic Acoustic

Arezump said:


> That class A Sinfoni would cost u a bomb!deadly, like a straight kick to your gooch!


I have one . Working on getting one more.


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## Hillbilly SQ

My preferred sq amp is too situation dependant to name one. However I do like running ultra rare gear when possible. My frontstage amp is a one-of-a kindInternals that to my knowledge has only been seen by the guy that built it and a clean black sink.


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## Hillbilly SQ

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> I have one . Working on getting one more.


You must be one tough nut to pay a kick to the gooch TWICE:laugh:


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## Melodic Acoustic

Hillbilly SQ said:


> You must be one tough nut to pay a kick to the gooch TWICE:laugh:


I stood up and took it like a man. It was easier when it was a baby doing the kicking.


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## English audiophile

I still love the Audison HR-100


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## Hillbilly SQ

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> I stood up and took it like a man. It was easier when it was a baby doing the kicking.


I kinda wondered if I should be wearing velvet gloves while fondling the Sinfoni goodness.


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## 226z

Anyone have any opinions on Celestra in general? Don't run across many ppl who have used them but they seem pretty nice...


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## Arezump

226z said:


> Anyone have any opinions on Celestra in general? Don't run across many ppl who have used them but they seem pretty nice...


read few reviews on this celestra & most of them claimed that this amp is very musical & fast!


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## subwoofery

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> I have used many of the above also and at the moment my two favs are:
> 
> Sinfoni Tempo and Arc SE
> 
> My favorite amp to date is the Sinfoni Class A Prestigio, wow love this amp, costly but just wonderful.


I love Sinfoni amps too. Got them for a great price. Just waiting for a 120.4x to pop up at a good price so that I can have a nice and clean system with a Prestigio pushing my horns  

Kelvin 

PS: we are still waiting for a review and some pics of your Sinfoni install.


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## benny

OK, what the hell is a "fast" amplifier? Does it make 1kHz sound like 1.5 or 2 kHz?


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## DAT

Arezump said:


> read few reviews on this celestra & most of them claimed that this amp is very musical & fast!


Fast like what ?



benny said:


> OK, what the hell is a "fast" amplifier? Does it make 1kHz sound like 1.5 or 2 kHz?


It's probably an Audiobahn amp in reality.

here is the link to the WORLDS fastest amps. 

AUDIOBAHN


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## ChrisB

benny said:


> OK, what the hell is a "fast" amplifier? Does it make 1kHz sound like 1.5 or 2 kHz?


I wonder if it has a warm, natural, open sound to it that accurately reproduces the music as the artist intended it to be reproduced?

Edit: I wonder if any of these individuals touting their "best" amplifier could even double blind pick out their precious favorite in a double blind test with statistically significant results?


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## Arezump

benny said:


> OK, what the hell is a "fast" amplifier? Does it make 1kHz sound like 1.5 or 2 kHz?


heard this "fast" term quite often but totally have no idea bout it! 
well maybe someone should've tried carrying those celestra & overtake their own car while driving?


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## Lanson

Arezump said:


> heard this "fast" term quite often but totally have no idea bout it!
> well maybe someone should've tried carrying those celestra & overtake their own car while driving?


Well, maybe in ampereland, but in real-land, an amp is not fast or slow. Just faithful or not-so faithful to the original source.


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## MarkZ

These kinds of threads are why DIYMA is made fun of on a daily basis.


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## TrickyRicky

Cant believe how people can actually say "this amp sounds better than this other amp". Especially when they haven't done any blind tests or even remember how one amp sounded even after a few days.


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## ChrisB

All that is needed to complete this thread is for someone to tout that they have over 20 years of experience and their ears told them that amplifier A sounded better than amplifier B.


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## TrickyRicky

Especially when your car is on. Because we all know how amps produce more wattage when running at 14.4V, LOL.


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## ChrisB

I offered to perform a double blind test while driving my Civic at 70 MPH on the interstate similar to the conditions of the Richard Clark Challenge. Unfortunately, as of the time I sold the vehicle, I didn't have a single taker on my amplifier challenge.


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## sqshoestring

Hillbilly SQ said:


> My preferred sq amp is too situation dependant to name one. However I do like running ultra rare gear when possible. My frontstage amp is a one-of-a kindInternals that to my knowledge has only been seen by the guy that built it and a clean black sink.


Does it start with an S and is made by a guy who starts with a P?


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## TrickyRicky

Its crazy how audiophiles (maybe the real ones know this) keep saying this amp sounds better than this one. When infact (in my opinion) if its the same speaker, same signal, same settings, just different amp- will make it HARD to tell difference in SQ between amps (especially when both are well made with good components). 

Now if you were to say "WELL, it sounds better now that I change the speakers, settings, and signal." Then it would be more resonable to say ONE has heard the differences.

Fullrange 6.5" speaker will mostly likely sound like **** especially if your just running them from your HU. Then you switch it out with a 3-way component with its crossovers and maybe a equalizer (audiocontrol or something of that level) your GUARANTEE to hear a difference or differences.

Anyone agree or dis??


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## sqshoestring

I don't know how one would tell in a car what high end amp was better sounding, when you can't tell what middle range amp is better. Even some cheaper amps sound great....assuming you ignore any EQ inside them. Now old amps, they did sound different I used to select them based on the install. Most new amps I've tried are very flat and similar, but often it was built in EQ. Some do act differently, clip differently, etc. For example I have one amp that will play really loud if I HP it up above 100Hz or better and its only 2x40, but another couple of newer amps I tried it does not matter where the HP is they distort the same number on the volume. This could be because newer amps have better power supplies.


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## t3sn4f2

Stereophile: Krell Full Power Balanced 350mc monoblock amplifier

"The Linns had slightly better microdynamics, the Krells slightly better macrodynamics. The Klimax sound a touch *"white"* and more transparent on top in comparison to the Krells, the 350Mc were slightly *darker* and seductively sweeter."

Linn Klimax (ie the *WHITE* one):











Krell 350 Mc (ie the *DARK* one):










:laugh:


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## MarkZ

LMFAO Since when did they let synesthetes run stereophile?


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## sqshoestring

I can hear it now; "Hey dude, my new amp is slightly darker and seductively sweeter...and your amp *sucks*!


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## Oliver

> Price: $17,500/pair.
> Power consumption: 37.5W (standby), 175W (Idle), *3kW (maximum)*.


wowsers


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## t3sn4f2

Oliver said:


> wowsers


And that one was the little brother. The Krell Full Power Balanced 600 is double everything pretty much.

Then there's this little _power plant/industrial heater_........

Premier Audio - Krell MRA

"The Master Reference Amplifier brings a new level of performance to sound reproduction. Its tremendous power (exceeding 1,000 W into 8 Ohms, 2,000 W into 4 Ohms, 4,000 W into 2 Ohms, 8,000 W into 1 Ohm, and *16,000 W into .5 Ohm)* gives the listener the freedom to enjoy unconstrained sound reproduction. The technological innovations that manage these large amounts of power are transparent to the user."


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## awdawg

hurrah


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## Corner-Carver

t3sn4f2 said:


> And that one was the little brother. The Krell Full Power Balanced 600 is double everything pretty much.
> 
> Then there's this little _power plant/industrial heater_........
> 
> Premier Audio - Krell MRA
> 
> "The Master Reference Amplifier brings a new level of performance to sound reproduction. Its tremendous power (exceeding 1,000 W into 8 Ohms, 2,000 W into 4 Ohms, 4,000 W into 2 Ohms, 8,000 W into 1 Ohm, and *16,000 W into .5 Ohm)* gives the listener the freedom to enjoy unconstrained sound reproduction. The technological innovations that manage these large amounts of power are transparent to the user."


Holy Crap! What does it have, a 480V power source?


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## Melodic Acoustic

Ok you guys. I only see two post where someone even made a reference to sound of an amp and one of them seems like he was just making a joke saying someone said an amp was fast or something.

But,

We say all amps sound the amp. It is just not true. When someone points out why they sound different, may it be a built in EQ circuit or something else the builders/designers did to shape the sound a bit. We then say, remove it and they will sound the same. Point is, it is part of the design so it is part of the amp. So to say all amps sound the same is just to bold of a statement. 

Now say if two amps are design as a straight gain unit, no shaping in the signal path, They should sound the same, if both designs are up to par. Now that I would be more willing to agree with! But even with that said, if they sound the same they should measure very very close to the same (not talking power ratings). If not why would they sound the same. Are we now going to say they measured different because different components have different values and specs so the differences we see is that? I'm no EE here I'm just asking a question.

I have a done a blind test. Yes, maybe not up to some standard as we all know you will never be able to please everyone. Someone will find fault in the test somewhere. But i have compare my Prestigio to a few well designed amps. I and 2 others pick it out, 3 out of 3 times and the others 2 people really knew nothing about Audio, besides knowing what they like when they hear it. 

What was the other amps you my ask, a Aura RPM2 2300, Clarion APX 4241 I think the model number is, and a Sinfoni Allegro. Head unit was 8053, speakers was XR6.5M ultra-wide band. All gains where set at minimum and 3 different volume levels where used in the effort to make sure the input voltage was even or close at some point in test. RCA's was simple moved around at different volume levels. So I guess you can say it was pick out 9 out of 9 times from each of us. Even when the other amps had a bit more volume at a given volume level the Prestigio was the better amp and was picked out.

Now ask me was it $2100 better then the most other costly amp in the test. For me HELL NO! Was it better? Hell Yes. Do the other amps have some sort of circuit built-in to make them sound different? Maybe. 

No I didn't listen to compare the other amps to each other. It was all about fining the Prestigio (The big money amp) at all volume levels. One time they didn't even include it in the round and I knew it wasn't there.

So do more money buy you a better product in some case yes. It up to you to justify if the add cost vs. add performance is worth it. Maybe you are looking for an amp that has some type of sound shaping to match with a speaker with a sound you would like to tone down a bit or open up a bit and don't have enough processor power to do it. But back to the point, you just can't say all amps sound the same when the designs may include something that shapes the sound, bottom line is that is the amps design like it or not, therefor it sounds different the a straight gain design. 

But funny thing is one of the person in the test did say they liked one of the other amps better on the speaker combo being used. So what those theat say? To me it says more money will not always get you what you like!


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## Audio_Adrenaline

...I'm New to this site. Just trying to figure out how to put a Crystal Clear sounding Stereo in my car. I see there is alot more to it than I expected. Zapco and Arc Audio are the only Amps I've read reviews on. So I know I've a lot to learn and looks like I've got some reading to do.


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## ChrisB

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> Have a done a blind test. Yes, maybe not up to some standard as we all know you will never be able to please everyone. Someone will find fault in the test somewhere. But i have compare my Prestigio to a few well designed amps. I and 2 other pick it out of the 3 out of 3 times and the others 2 people really knew nothing about Audio, besides knowing what they like when they hear it.
> 
> What was the other amps you my ask. I Aura RPM 2 2300, Clarion APX 4241 I think the model number is, and a Sinfoni Allegro. Head unit was 8053, speakers was XR6.5M ultra-wide band. *All gains where set at minimum and 3 different volume levels where used in the effort to make sure the input voltage was even or close at some point in test. RCA's was simple moved around. *At different volumes. So I guess you can say it was pick out 9 out of 9 times from each of use. Even when the other amps had a bit more volume at a given volume level the Prestigio was the better amp.


Was output level matching performed at an output level significantly below clipping or were all the gains just set at a minimum on all the amplifiers?

Do you think the test results would have been different if each amplifier had been equalized to perform within 1 to 2 decibels of one another across the 20 Hz to 20 kHz spectrum at the same output level? 

If I were to EQ each individual amplifier to measure relatively the same over the audible sound spectrum and limit their power output to 25 watts RMS per channel... Do you think you would be able to tell me which one was playing?


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## MarkZ

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> Ok you guys. I only see two post where someone even made a reference to sound of an amp and one of them seems like he was just making a joke saying someone said an amp was fast or something.
> 
> But,
> 
> We say all amps sound the amp. It is just not true. When someone points out why they sound different, may it be a built in EQ circuit or something else the builders/designers did to shape the sound a bit. We then say, remove it and they will sound the same. Point is, it is part of the design so it is part of the amp. So to say all amps sound the same is just to bold of a statement.


Right. So we should refine it to say: _most_ amps sound the same. And bigger amps sound better than smaller amps, regardless of name brand (by virtue of the fact that they're less likely to clip). A 1000w Pyramid amp out of the MCM catalog will sound cleaner than a 50w Genesis amp for most applications.


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## Corner-Carver

MarkZ said:


> Right. So we should refine it to say: _most_ amps sound the same. And bigger amps sound better than smaller amps, regardless of name brand (by virtue of the fact that they're less likely to clip). A 1000w Pyramid amp out of the MCM catalog will sound cleaner than a 50w Genesis amp for most applications.


Sure, if you can get by the noise floor of the cheaper amps.


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## MarkZ

Haha fair enough.


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## sqshoestring

The pre-amp and amp stage in nearly any amp can reproduce the signal so well most anyone could not tell the difference...that is why we need machines to test those amps beyond our range of hearing. Now we are talking about a car environment. Sure an amp might have some EQ built in, but it is not really a quality issue....who does not EQ their car system here? You need a really cheap amp to hear problems in its reproduction.

You can't count clipping even though differences exist there; an amp is only rated to its max power at 1% or less THD+N that you can't really hear in a car.

The amp is what will make probably the least SQ change in your system, speakers will make huge changes and install can change things significantly....processing can change things.

I always thought larger amps sounded worse, they have a higher noise floor. If your amp is not large enough its not the amp's fault its your fault. Given equipment is pretty good and noise floors and whatnot are much less of a problem than they used to be.

Not to say expensive amps are not better in other ways, certainly they are.

I was going to get a cheap amp to try on my pyles, lol, but I only have a class AB and don't want to run a power hog like that....and not going to buy a class D pyle amp or something just to try it, when I have a few better ones laying around.


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## Melodic Acoustic

ChrisB said:


> Was output level matching performed at an output level significantly below clipping or were all the gains just set at a minimum on all the amplifiers?
> 
> Do you think the test results would have been different if each amplifier had been equalized to perform within 1 to 2 decibels of one another across the 20 Hz to 20 kHz spectrum at the same output level?
> 
> If I were to EQ each individual amplifier to measure relatively the same over the audible sound spectrum and limit their power output to 25 watts RMS per channel... Do you think you would be able to tell me which one was playing?


I would have to try it and see I have no idea as I have not done it. And as I said it was just a test with what I had on had.

But I will say this, a response graph tells us nothing about how something sounds. You will have got deeper then that, when need at least some distortion figures. So with that side I just might have to say yes I could. If your goal is just to make the response look the same. But anyway there we go adding adding EQ to the equation, that changes everything. At that point it is no longer just the amp. With a little sound shaping (eqing) yes we can make things sound very similar to each other. even different brand of speakers. Key word SIMILAR


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## Mooble

To all the haterz in this thread...

*I DON'T RECALL THE OP SAYING WHICH SQ AMP SOUNDS BETTER*

This thread was set up as a discussion of which amp you like best and why, not which amp *SOUNDS* better. 

This is why I like Tru
Closeup - Amp Guts

It's not that this amp SOUNDS better than any other (although it does have a lower noise floor), but with this kind of construction, I can rest assured it will likely keep sounding like other amps for 30 years. It's the precision involved . Look at the output transistors! Every single one is perfectly perpendicular to the heatsink and set WITH INDIVIDUAL SCREWS. No crappy rail here! The board also has a symmetrical layout to evenly distribute heat into the sink. It's so overbuilt it's not funny. I don't care if it sounds 99% identical to another amp, it's goddamn engineering artwork. It's a thing of beauty. Not even DS-21 can argue with that. It's just so ****ing gorgeous to look at! 

I still argue that better construction leads to better noise rejection, but in a lab this would not be applicable. In the real world of a car trunk, however, it just might.


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## MarkZ

Mooble said:


> To all the haterz in this thread...
> 
> *I DON'T RECALL THE OP SAYING WHICH SQ AMP SOUNDS BETTER*
> 
> This thread was set up as a discussion of which amp you like best and why, not which amp *SOUNDS* better.


The OP didn't say it but the responders did.


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## Melodic Acoustic

MarkZ said:


> The OP didn't say it but the responders did.


I can only see two people who did and as I said above and one seem to me to be joking with the  smiley at the end saying some review or mag said something about an amp being fast sounding. O 3 with my post above.


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## benny

I don't think all amps sound the same. I do think all amps that measure the same sound the same. 



*tips hat to Lycan*


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## Oliver

Ridhard Clark believed that 2 amps which had the playing field leveled were indistinguishable one from another with human ears.

If he set everything up and you could pick which one was playing 100 percent of the time - $$$$$.00

If you bet the same amount against his money the amount of times you had to be correct dropped.


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## Mooble

Oliver said:


> Ridhard Clark believed that 2 amps which had the playing field leveled were indistinguishable one from another with human ears.
> 
> If he set everything up and you could pick which one was playing 100 percent of the time - $$$$$.00
> 
> If you bet the same amount against his money the amount of times you had to be correct dropped.


Everyone here knows about RC's challenge and the inherent flaws in it. Unless you plan to listen to your 12v amp in a listening room, hit test is useless. Take Bob Carver's suggestion and build an amp in a coffee can. Build the next one inside a solid block of copper. In a lab they will sound the same. Now put them 6" from a high flow fuel pump and guarantee me $10k that I won't be able to hear any RF interference from the coffee can amp. That's an extreme example, but his challenge is riddled with flaws like that.


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## MarkZ

Mooble said:


> Everyone here knows about RC's challenge and the inherent flaws in it. Unless you plan to listen to your 12v amp in a listening room, hit test is useless. Take Bob Carver's suggestion and build an amp in a coffee can. Build the next one inside a solid block of copper. In a lab they will sound the same. Now put them 6" from a high flow fuel pump and guarantee me $10k that I won't be able to hear any RF interference from the coffee can amp. That's an extreme example, but his challenge is riddled with flaws like that.


I don't have 10k, but I'd guarantee that. Hell, I've run amps without chassis. The two I have now are topless (ok, it's still a Faraday, but you get my point...). In the car, I'd use one of those little ****ers that PE sells in a heartbeat (if its power output at 12v didn't suck ass). It's got nothing but a CPU heatsink looking thing on it.

What do you think you're going to pick up in a trunk anyway? This is all high voltage low impedance. Geez, there are certain class D amps that'll emit more noise themselves than your fuel pump. 

There's nothing wrong with controlled conditions. In fact, this is how engineers design stuff. Lycan went over all this about a month ago.

Want to know how some amps do ****tier than others in the noise department? It's all about circuit design and PCB layout. Inductive interference is only a small piece of the puzzle. Ground loops/poor grounding strategies and PSRR are the real bugger.


----------



## ChrisB

MarkZ said:


> Geez, there are certain class D amps that'll emit more noise themselves than your fuel pump.


There is a certain brand of old school amplifiers regarded as the holy grail of Ess Que amplifiers and their loosely wrapped transformers WILL make more noise than one's fuel pump! I still remember that first time I heard a squeal in the vehicle thinking it coming from the subwoofer. After getting the amplifier on the bench, I realize the squeal was coming from inside the heat sink. I should have made a video of it because the naysayers accused me of making it up while labeling me as a "hater".


----------



## Mooble

ChrisB said:


> There is a certain brand of old school amplifiers regarded as the holy grail of Ess Que amplifiers and their loosely wrapped transformers WILL make more noise than one's fuel pump! I still remember that first time I heard a squeal in the vehicle thinking it coming from the subwoofer. After getting the amplifier on the bench, I realize the squeal was coming from inside the heat sink. I should have made a video of it because the naysayers accused me of making it up while labeling me as a "hater".


I had one modified that was loud as hell. It was also distracting as hell. Maybe I couldn't hear it at 70mph, but I could hear it at 30mph and it bugged me. First I had it on the tweeters, then the mids, until I finally put it on the sub where the sound wouldn't bother me anymore. I know why RC discounts noise floor from his test.


----------



## Mooble

MarkZ said:


> There's nothing wrong with controlled conditions. In fact, this is how engineers design stuff. Lycan went over all this about a month ago.


I think it's vital to test the product in its environment. My voltage can dip as low as 11.5v and go as high as 14.7v. Can every amp handle that much current fluctuation the same way? Of course not. Testing an amp in a listening room with a regulated power source trivializes, in not negates, your test results in a real world application.

I've made this analogy before, but it's like testing a Baja 1000 trophy truck and a Kia Sportage on a paved surface and concluding that they are equally adept off road vehicles. If you don't shake them up a bit, you'll never know what they're made of.


----------



## MarkZ

Mooble said:


> I think it's vital to test the product in its environment. My voltage can dip as low as 11.5v and go as high as 14.7v. Can every amp handle that much current fluctuation the same way? Of course not.


Why not?



> Testing an amp in a listening room with a regulated power source trivializes, in not negates, your test results in a real world application.
> 
> I've made this analogy before, but it's like testing a Baja 1000 trophy truck and a Kia Sportage on a paved surface and concluding that they are equally adept off road vehicles. If you don't shake them up a bit, you'll never know what they're made of.


Haha I don't know cars, so your analogy is lost on me. I'll give it a shot.

If your track doesn't include bumps and dirt and whatever, then you're testing the wrong thing. That doesn't mean that a controlled test of these vehicles doesn't work. It just means that the experimenter isn't looking in the right spot (ie. user error!). I would say, "Hey, we should determine how these cars handle bumps, so let's progressively test their bump characteristics across a certain range."

Ok, I did a ****ty job with that analogy.

My point is that you can simulate ANY situation if you know what you're doing. Concerned about power supply fluctuations? Then make your power supply fluctuate! If you don't know how to do this, that's not the fault of controlled conditions -- it's the fault of the experimenter not knowing what the hell he's doing! Concerned about induced noise? Then measure your car's electrical noise and apply it on the bench (again, not very difficult if you know what you're doing). Or take the amp outside, hook it up to your car and perform the test there.

It seems to me that your beef is with people who don't know what they're doing, not with controlled testing.

I guess I'm not sure what you're implying, exactly. Are you suggesting that engineers don't spice model their amps... that they don't breadboard them or build prototypes... that they don't make measurements to achieve a design? Are you suggesting that they cobble together some parts that might work and bring them out to their Subaru and plug it in until they get it right?

There's nothing *NOTHING* about an amp that we can't measure. That's a fact.


----------



## Mooble

MarkZ said:


> My point is that you can simulate ANY situation if you know what you're doing. Concerned about power supply fluctuations? Then make your power supply fluctuate! If you don't know how to do this, that's not the fault of controlled conditions -- it's the fault of the experimenter not knowing what the hell he's doing! Concerned about induced noise? Then measure your car's electrical noise and apply it on the bench (again, not very difficult if you know what you're doing). Or take the amp outside, hook it up to your car and perform the test there.


No argument there. Sure, you can simulate real world conditions in a lab. Absolutely! RC's challenge doesn't take into account any of that though. He doesn't vary voltage, he doesn't introduce RF interference, he doesn't introduce heat, vibration, or half a dozen other variables that could make amps measure differently under harsh conditions. It's only after you have exposed them to those real world conditions that factors like design, construction, etc., could account for differences in sound. 

Will all amps that measure the same, sound the same? Absolutely! But you'd have to do much more testing than RC's challenge requires to find out whether or not they measure the same under real world conditions. I'll also pay YOU $10,000 if you can find me two amps that measure the same with anything other than the most ham-fisted broad criteria. Even two of the same model amp with sequential serial numbers will measure differently to some extent. 

I don't believe in chaos. Chaos is just a lack of sufficient information to make a predictable model. Every reason an amp could sound different can be explained. You'll get no argument from me there. I just don't like an overly simplistic model being used to prove that two amps measure, and therefore sound, the same.


----------



## kev_gios

I use Genesis and Mcintosh and preferred Macintosh


----------



## TrickyRicky

Most know I have a bunch of LP's stashed. I never got time nor the extra money (plus I dont dare put 3K-4K without or even with an alarm. Trust me if a crook wants it he will have it NO MATTER WHAT) to install a system in my car.

So every other month I test certain LP's I have (such as the 2502IQ modded, 5002, 2121) and indoors (with no outdoor noise to be in the way, or engine) with the same speakers/subs (Stroker's, and Beyma SD-35's) and they sound good enough to me. I just like how they're built like tanks (or atleast like the old school hummers).

But other than that I believe the signal and speakers is what matters the most. Why put a "SQ" amp on 50.00 speakers and expect to hear rainbows. Or at that put a MP3 song thats less than 125Kps (even the hi-quality MP3's cant compare to vinyls.


----------



## 226z

That's the truth....stupidest thing to me is when ppl want an sq system so they buy one piece of good equipment and hook it up to crap. Any system will only sound as good as the weakest link in the chain...


----------



## ebrahim

Arc Audio
Zapco
Genesis
MacIntosh
Tru Technologies

Those are the only ones I would use but I am running Arc Audio amps for now.


----------



## ChrisB

PUREAUDIO said:


> My preffered SQ amp is Lunar amplifiers....


I forgot to say which amplifier was my favorite.... That would be Lunar! I have been using Lunar since April 2009, and I must say that they are one of the few amplifiers that I have been 100% satisfied with. Another plus is they are roughly 30 minutes down the road and are great to deal with in person.


----------



## itsmerandyb

TrickyRicky said:


> Its still crazy how LP used TWICE as many TO3's and had a lower wattage. And Tru uses on most only 8 or 16 and they put out more wattage. Also the stories I have read from "little bird/s" is that the guys who started Tru stole the idea of having the TO3's mounted upside down for display from LP as they were coming up with the plans. Dont know how true this is but its crazy how Fairchild liked using LP's with Cerwin Vega Stroker's.


The reason you see more T03's in a Linear Power versus a Tru is the LP uses T03's for their Inputs and Outputs. Tru uses T03's for outputs only. Both are great amps!


----------



## Arezump

another my fav amp which i forgot to mention: McIntosh!


----------



## JdotP17

I have Genesis series 3 amplfiers atm, I havent listened to them however. They are connected by a laptop to audison Bitone via optical cable to reduce noise. A set of 2-way Focal K2P are then connect to both amplfiers bridged for Active crossovers.

What I do know is this:

Once upon a time I had a logitech z5500 system. Bad Amp, Bad DAC, Playing Mp3's = CRAP

Then I added an external DAC to the Logitech AMP connected to a Computer via optical, playing Mp3's = Alot Better

Then I removed the logitech Amp, added a NAD3020 Amp connected to an external DAC to the computer via optical cable, playing Mp3's = Incredible.

*The Question is however.....*

Will a £1000 DAC connected to a £1000 Amp conected to a computer playing Mp3's (Can be any source) sound better than a...

£50 DAC connected to a £50 Amp connected a computer playing Mp3's (Can be any source) ?

What im saying is no matter your souce, better equiptment will make what ever source sound 'Better' i.e bring out what remains of the signal as best it can. However a proper WAV in the same 3 steps would sound leaps and bounds better than mp3, its just a comparison however.

As long as the amp dosent have internal crossovers messing with your signal and good connections it should sound good.

Joe


----------



## Frijoles24

Mooble said:


> I'm a fan of any amp that is basically nothing but a gain block. If I want crossovers, bass boost, or any other crap, I'll handle it at the source. I don't what my amp doing anything but amplifying.


im with you on that.
i havnt read the entire forum yet, but i still have to find a class D amp that does that. if that even exists.
i got my a/d/s pq20 handling that for my tweeets n mids.


----------



## ATOMICTECH62

I cant believe nobody mentioned ADCOM.


----------



## brypink

Zapco w/symbilink for the common man.


----------



## mazolo

Did somebody mentioned:

Focal Dual monitor
Alpine F1

or ar these not that good for SQ?


----------



## TrickyRicky

not that good.


----------



## ChrisB

The Focal amplifiers are known for running extremely hot. On the other hand, they have the lowest amount of amplifier noise since they spend most of their time in thermal shutdown.


----------



## bfb1963

Zapco

Old ESX was nice too.


----------



## Acceleratorz

Old school ))) or zapco


----------



## PPI_GUY

I like Butler but, I don't know how they would react to the harsh vibrations found in the automotive environment over time. But, I do love me some tubes!


----------



## TrickyRicky

You might need a lot of power but it might be worth it. Linear Power seem to have come back from the dead (in the car audio show, competitions). They competed in the USACI World Finals and did pretty good. Keep in mind that others in the competition use new equipment thats probably way more expensive than Linear Power is.

John Neal - World Champion for Mod Q 
Richard Nye - Region 6 overall and World SQ Point Champion 
Randal Johnson - Region 2 SQ Point Champion 
Herman Smith - World Champion for Intro SQ+ 
TJ Lacharite - Third place in Super Mod SQ+ and third place in Open SPL

These are 15-20 year old amps they were using. And the new line of the so "debated" Blues Car Audio speakers/drivers. So just by seeing the results I know they will come back to the marketing (as of next year).


----------



## illcrx

I think a lot of it has to do with what you have heard, I voted for what I have heard and they have all sounded great. I guess you would have to demo all the amps on the same source/speakers/power to really get an A/B comparison and on top of that aural memory is short so by the time you swapped out the amps you really dont remember what you just heard LOL, so its all pretty subjective. 

Needless to say though if you had any of those amps and some that others have posted on here, you'd be very happy!


----------



## freemind

My ZR360 will rock your balls off for a 2x4ohm load.

Cool running's....


----------



## habagat

Audiowave aspire


----------



## JDMRB1ODY

How about the most powerfull 4 ch amp. Brax Matrix X4.


----------



## jimmyjames16

_*ZUKI ELEETS*_


----------



## oddiofile

eng92 said:


> One more for Tru to get this thread back on track and I do have a slight bias towards them as well.


very very nice. Id love to hear that.


----------



## ChrisB

TrickyRicky said:


> They competed in the USACI World Finals and did pretty good.


Have you ever seen a USACi judge? Unfortunately, I have... Let's put it like this, they were allowing Legal SPL Dash scores by letting the competitor place the microphone ANYWHERE they wanted to in the car. The trunk guys were putting the TL in the port of their enclosures in the trunk.

When I questioned the judge on the "Legal SPL Dash" score and said it should be dash according to THEIR rules, he said "It doesn't matter!"

Seeing how haphazardly they judge Legal SPL, with SPL being their specialty, I take even less merit in their ability to judge Sound Quality.


----------



## analogrocker

I've heard some "high end" amps in my time, and even owned several, but nothing beats the lowly Pioneer amps I use now. Laugh if you must, but they're clean, musical, and have a damn good build quality! I've never had the same listening enjoyment when I had so-called "audiophile" amps. My days of buying $1000+ amps are over.


----------



## joemk69

basshead said:


> I have to go with the Arc Audio SE (signature edition), but they are the only high-end amps I've auditioned unless the Steg K serie are considered high-end.
> 
> For look the TRU Billet with its TO-3 is hard to beat IMO, but the Helix competition serie are pretty sweet too.


I second the Arc Se's


----------



## joemk69

Have a look at this, designed by the legendary Robert Zeff ( who also designed the older Zapco's). Btw this amp puts the Zapco's to shame

ARC AUDIO 4200SE - Amplifier Test Report - Amplifier Reviews - Car Audio and Electronics


----------



## 8675309

I used to think this poll was good. But you must pick up on this. All amps are okay. With good tunes you can make anything sound great!


----------



## pickup1

cedoman said:


> _*ZUKI ELEETS*_


will my new zuki 6 ch. count?


----------



## ~Spyne~

meh, most decent amps all sound pretty good - as long as they amplify the signal without changing anything else i'm happy.

though i must admit i like the look of the Tru Billets and older Diamond D7 amps.


----------



## Hoot

Are the DLS amps in the same class as the others in the poll? Dunno, myself, as I've never heard them, but if they are, they'd win the value-category contest, no?

Personally, I agree with mooble; ideally, and amp accepts inputs and has outputs - it amplifies sound and nothing less...let the other pieces of the system do their jobs, alone. No sound modification at the amplifier level. 

"Amp, impart no sound-changing affect - just give us lots of power, headroom and zero noise...."


----------



## Lanson

HRU.4


----------



## rexroadj

fourthmeal said:


> HRU.4


x2!
Best amp I have owned (except my old brax 
I have owned SEVERAL of the ones listed here, this SS HRU is my favorite thus far and is reasonably priced comparatively speaking


----------



## mdechgan

I only use Zapco. However Mcintosh is something I would really like to try. The only thing that set me back was the size of their amps. And the price.


----------



## nanomidaz

Love my DLS A4's. used them in 2 years now without any problems. 
Great sounding amps!


----------



## subwoofery

The DLS Ultimate amps are great and solid for sure but they are seriously in need for an update. They have been around for so long - 2000-2001 I believe. 

Kelvin


----------



## big jerm

ChrisB said:


> There is a certain brand of old school amplifiers regarded as the holy grail of Ess Que amplifiers and their loosely wrapped transformers WILL make more noise than one's fuel pump! I still remember that first time I heard a squeal in the vehicle thinking it coming from the subwoofer. After getting the amplifier on the bench, I realize the squeal was coming from inside the heat sink. I should have made a video of it because the naysayers accused me of making it up while labeling me as a "hater".


I had brand new DPS 200 with a constant squeal in the heat sink. P.O.S.


----------



## big jerm

Hifonics VII


----------



## oddiofile

Im running a Brax X1000 on mids/highs and going to replace my sub amp with an X2000 once it gets repaired. I noticed a difference between the Brax and US AMPS old school that I used to run. There is more depth to the music with the Brax. You can hear things that you cant on the US AMPS. While the US AMPS sounded amazing, the Brax is noticeably better at playing mids and highs being more accurate.

Anyone compare Brax, specifically Brax, to other brands?


----------



## saber

Stupid question, but how does an amp qualify as a SQ amp?
The amps specs? How the amp sounds when compared to a range of other defined SQ amps?? Or something else?


----------



## SQ Audi

I see a lot of people on here bashing an amplifier because of it's price. Believe it or not, there are some reasons that amps like these exist.

1st: You get what you pay for... example: You buy a McIntosh MC4000M 6ch 1KW amplifer...it costs you roughly 5000 (1996 prices). When you have an issue, you send it back in and the warranty will replace the amp. not try and fix it, that is what R and D is for at the factory. Just like if you pay 100K for a new Mercedes, and something goes wrong with it...they will outfit you with a loaner car of equal value, and treat you like a king while you are there.

2nd: you buy a lightning Audio amp ( which a few on here will tell you it sounds identical as the McIntosh), it blows, do you think that Walmart will just give you a new one? Doubtful...you will have to wait for it to be fixed.

People will always lust after what they can't have. Whether it be women, men, cars, boats, hi-end audio (car or home), aircraft or real estate.

These exquisite, hand made, limited production pieces are for the rich or the connoisseur of fine things. Some may save for months or years to purchase them, yet they are still acceptable in today's society.

So stop running over someone who says that they love their Sinfoni, Brax, Tru, Genesis, McIntosh or other hi-end amplifier. They either can afford it, or they saved up for it...and they are happy.

Thanks for listening....


----------



## Tommei

Xtant and Sinfoni


----------



## ChrisB

SQ Stang said:


> I see a lot of people on here bashing an amplifier because of it's price.


I only bash those overpriced amplifiers that don't perform in accordance with their price tag! A DPSQ50 that routinely goes for $750 on eBay yet has a squealing transformer is a prime example of a product that doesn't live up to the price it commands.


----------



## TrickyRicky

Hey chris, you either have the music too low or the amp right next to the driver seat in order to hear anything coming out of the amplifier, lol. Otherwise you probably would of never notice it if it was in the trunk or have had the music loud. JK.


----------



## ChrisB

TrickyRicky said:


> Hey chris, you either have the music too low or the amp right next to the driver seat in order to hear anything coming out of the amplifier, lol. Otherwise you probably would of never notice it if it was in the trunk or have had the music loud. JK.


I can't believe my DPSQ50 sold for that much on eBay over a year ago, especially since I only paid $150 for it.


----------



## TrickyRicky

Yeah, someone else told me they bought a DPSQ50 for 87.00 bucks. Who ever sold those Q50's to you guys must of not known what they had.

Just the connectors and heatsink lets you know this is no cheaply made amp. Unlike other amps that have cheap connectors and a wacky heatsink with plated chrome go for more just because of the cheaply look.

Let me run into a Q50 for around that price, I'll buy it in a heartbeat.


----------



## jbreddawg

A porsche and a kia will both drive you down the highway at 65 mph but I'd still pick the porsche everytime 

I have run a ton of different amps back in the day of the legends . Soundstream,zapco,linear power,hifonics,alpine,pioneer,rockford fosgate ,ppi,blade,phoenix gold,etc... And later tru and audison .
I had my car set up to easily swap out amps while keeping the rest of the system the same. 
My last system used a tru 4.150 and I swapped nothing but the amp out to a pair of audison LRX's . I will swear by the audisons !! They are more like a ferreri vs the big block chevy that the tru was. Of course they had completely different power ratings but I was not a tru fan and wouldnt buy another one.
I believe for the most part the biggest difference your going to hear is that one amp will have more power then the other. 
Given identical power and gain settings I doubt you could tell the difference. 

With that said, I will never buy junk amps ! I love the good stuff and will gladly pay for it. 
True they may sound the same but that doesnt account for longevity ,build quality ,visual stimulation 

So, to answer the OP question, my personal favorites are Audisons and alpines for SQ. 
I did have a big Mcintosh come through my hands not too long ago and really should have kept it  but had no system to use it in. Theres always next time.


----------



## Sarthos

For any two relatively decent amps without built in EQ and that aren't clipping they should sound the same... When setup using the same source, same speakers, level matched, etc. like in the Richard Clark contest

Now, it gets different if you get into serious audiophile stuff. For example, if you have a source unit that is capable of processing 24 bit 192 kHz studio quality music, and one amplifier with a built in 24 bit 192 KHz ADC and one with a 16 bit 48 KHz ADC there actually should be a noticeable difference between two amplifiers. This is because if you have CD quality audio (16 bits, 44.1 kHz) or got forbid iPod quality audio (0 bits, 0 Hz  ) the signal already suffers distortion from the source which is greater than the distortion from your amplifier, causing the amplifier's distortion to be negligible. However, if you have studio quality audio, the distortion and such from the amplifier is greater than the distortion from the source. The result is the distortion should now be noticeable between the two amplifiers. But once you add in the noise floor from driving it shouldn't be very noticeable anymore.


----------



## Porsche

adcom 4702


----------



## Sarthos

> 2nd: you buy a lightning Audio amp ( which a few on here will tell you it sounds identical as the McIntosh), it blows, do you think that Walmart will just give you a new one? Doubtful...you will have to wait for it to be fixed.


I work for a company that handles wal mart returns... Among other things that people have received refunds for have been toys run over by cars, appliances (tv, microwaves, etc) that have been scribbled on all over the place by little kids before apparently getting dropped down a flight of stairs, lots of items where the customer removed parts from a set and returned the remains ($200+ toys which customers stole batteries/chargers from, and which specifically say on the box NOT to return to retailer), and all manners of stupid crap, batteries which have been intentionally damaged so as to get replaced while still under warranty (black marks on terminals from intentional short circuits and overcharging)

Basically with a Wal Mart amplifier, you can run it at a quarter ohm until it releases magic blue smoke, open it up to check what went wrong, dump a can of mountain dew in there, then tie it to the back of your car and drag it behind you all the way back to wal mart, and still get a replacement OR in many cases a refund.


----------



## puredrive

Zapco C2K for me


----------



## iyamwutiam

I have tried a few.
Brax- very neutral amplifier -hard to pair up with right speakers. Probably one of the best if your goal is to hear the source-with out any bias.

Genesis miniblocks -very nice amplifier and I guess I am all about monoblocks for now. Nice amplifier has a 'sweet' sound -great for mids if you ask me. Love them and thanks to Kansas Jayhawk and Moole -I was able to regain these amps that were stolen and then sold on ebay and then sent back by the aforementioned awesome dudes !

Poweramper PA 150- same -can't beat them for the price-using them as monoblocks (bridged). See Brian Smith's review on carsound. Very hard to beat the quality of this amp imo.

McIntosh mcc302- had the 444's and other models- never heard the big ones -602/5000 etc. Nice amps very reliable, last forever-love the clipping safeguard. A bit shrill on the high end that takes a bit of getting used to. Nice amps but don't seem to have the 'it'.

Phoenix Gold ZPA .3 -one of my all time favorities have two- great great amp. It is probably very under-rated now- and if you are spending 400 or so with the balanced cables - just do it. A lot of people use these for midbasses -and I can see why. Still one of the best amps I have ever had.

ARC- always thought they were over-rated and over-priced from back in the day. Had the 2500 mainly. Nice amp-stoopid ass design with the fan on the bottom of the amp?!! WTF ? Ok amplifier imo-prefer the ones I have. So if your looking for a 2500 -let me know Sale/trade whatever.

Zapco-very nice amps-love the studio series.


----------



## jimmy2345

ChrisB said:


> I only bash those overpriced amplifiers that don't perform in accordance with their price tag! A DPSQ50 that routinely goes for $750 on eBay yet has a squealing transformer is a prime example of a product that doesn't live up to the price it commands.


That's odd. I have owned two and neither made any noise other than exquisite sound. 

I never understood why they sell for so much either. I believe it's a combination of the rarity matched with it's versatility. It is the only LP with a built in 3 way crossover.


----------



## ChrisB

jimmy2345 said:


> That's odd. I have owned two and neither made any noise other than exquisite sound.
> 
> I never understood why they sell for so much either. I believe it's a combination of the rarity matched with it's versatility. It is the only LP with a built in 3 way crossover.


I'm starting to think I was just snake bit when it came to using old school gear due to the fact that it was very hit or miss, with emphasis on the miss part. That was a miscalculation on my part due to the fact that I didn't know what kind of lives the amplifiers lived prior to making their way over to me and I should have expected minor maintenance on something that was 10 to 20 years old.

On a positive note, my LP150 was rock solid and I know that Tricky Ricky was pleased with the blue 5002 that he purchased from me.


----------



## Audioguy36

Go pick up a maxxsonic's owned Hifonics 4 channel and then go pick up a ARC SE4100 and tell me if you can here a difference? The thing is about car audio gear is there is a whole lot of junk out there. Distortion isn't the only thing that can change the way an amp can sound. You think a lightning audio will be flat and under 1% distortion 20-20khz as most list, i don't think so. Most company's list there measured distortion figures at 1khz not throughout there entire range.

I agree on the taking stuff back to Walmart thing, a guy can pretty much take anything back and even without a receipt they will give you in store credit.
Thinking about picking me up a nice 2 way Roadmaster set up from there soon


----------



## Hertz5400LincolnLS

No love for old school a/d/s or Blade Se's? Along with Sinfoni, those 2 are my favorites that I've heard...and I've heard some old school goodness! Pioneer ODR, Sony XES, Mcintosh, Genesis, Arc, Adcom, Zed built Naks, a boatload of PPI's and PG's...the 3 at the top are my favs.


----------



## Candisa

I voted Genesis Series III. I have (3) Series III Dual Mono's and a Series II Dual Mono myself and used to own a Series II Four Channel and (2) Series II Stereo 100's...

The reason for that: They are known to be one of the most neutral, pure and simple amps out there without costing a really ridiculously amount of money (over here). 
The looks are also matching with the internals: Simple and balanced with attention to detail to form a simply beautiful looking/sounding amp with very little unnecessary frills and gadgets.

Brax, Celestra, Audison and Sinfoni make great amps too, but they have a warm sound to them, and I don't like an amp that colors the sound more than what's necessary to do the job.

TRU and McIntosh are nice, but overpriced (over here).

I don't have any experience with the DLS Ultimates (I know they share their past with Genesis, but I also know they've gone they've split up quite a while ago, so you can't probably compare them with eachother anymore), and the Zapco and since I've learned to shut my mouth about things I don't know about, I have nothing to say about those.

Isabelle


----------



## 6APPEAL

ChrisB said:


> A DPSQ50 that routinely goes for $750 on eBay yet has a squealing transformer is a prime example of a product that doesn't live up to the price it commands.





ChrisB said:


> I'm starting to think I was just snake bit when it came to using old school gear due to the fact that it was very hit or miss, with emphasis on the miss part. That was a miscalculation on my part due to the fact that I didn't know what kind of lives the amplifiers lived prior to making their way over to me and I should have expected minor maintenance on something that was 10 to 20 years old.


Never had any noise out of the 5 Q50's I've owned. Still have 2 running in systems with no issues. You are right about buying used old school equipment, it can be hit or miss.


----------



## Arezump

Candisa said:


> I voted Genesis Series III. I have (3) Series III Dual Mono's and a Series II Dual Mono myself and used to own a Series II Four Channel and (2) Series II Stereo 100's...
> 
> The reason for that: They are known to be one of the most neutral, pure and simple amps out there without costing a really ridiculously amount of money (over here).
> The looks are also matching with the internals: Simple and balanced with attention to detail to form a simply beautiful looking/sounding amp with very little unnecessary frills and gadgets.
> 
> Brax, Celestra, Audison and Sinfoni make great amps too, but they have a warm sound to them, and I don't like an amp that colors the sound more than what's necessary to do the job.
> 
> TRU and McIntosh are nice, but overpriced (over here).
> 
> I don't have any experience with the DLS Ultimates (I know they share their past with Genesis, but I also know they've gone they've split up quite a while ago, so you can't probably compare them with eachother anymore), and the Zapco and since I've learned to shut my mouth about things I don't know about, I have nothing to say about those.
> 
> Isabelle


nicely said & couldn't agree more!been using few amps before this & TRU was one of em' but i got myself stuck with Genesis at this moment...thanks to Gordon for his marvelous passion & works on the series III..they sounded superbly fine!


----------



## finbar

cedoman said:


> _*ZUKI ELEETS*_


I am quite taken with the Zuki.


----------



## Cablguy184

TrickyRicky said:


> You might need a lot of power but it might be worth it. Linear Power seem to have come back from the dead (in the car audio show, competitions). They competed in the USACI World Finals and did pretty good. Keep in mind that others in the competition use new equipment thats probably way more expensive than Linear Power is.
> John Neal - World Champion for Mod Q
> Richard Nye - Region 6 overall and World SQ Point Champion
> Randal Johnson - Region 2 SQ Point Champion
> Herman Smith - World Champion for Intro SQ+
> TJ Lacharite - Third place in Super Mod SQ+ and third place in Open SPL
> These are 15-20 year old amps they were using. And the new line of the so "debated" Blues Car Audio speakers/drivers. So just by seeing the results I know they will come back to the marketing (as of next year).


Thank you for the kind words for our team here ...
My personal favorite SQ amp would be the Linear Power 2.2hv. Very strong, clear sounding amplifier. thanks, Randal ...


----------



## Mark the Bold

Just a young buck in this industry, I have not installed any of these premier brand amps quoted in this thread. But I have heard a lot of junk. I'm kind of partial to 5 channel / 6 channel multichannel amps for installs. 

So the top three multichannel / hybrid amps I have worked with for SQ are:

Arc Audio KS900.6
US Amps AX5600
Memphis Belle MCH1300

By and large my fav is the the Memphis Belle. It may not stack up to the elite gear posted here, but it is my favorite SQ amp. Clean, powerful and reliable amp. Love it. It was one of those installs where you secretly wished the owner would have "problems" with it so he would come back every now and then so I can play with it again. But 6 years strong its still rocking in a lovely BMW 

As for specialized amp, I was fortunate to work on a car with old school MB Quart Q Series amps and components (pre-Maxxsonix era). These rocked too.


----------



## stockman2010

Mark the Bold said:


> Just a young buck in this industry, I have not installed any of these premier brand amps quoted in this thread. But I have heard a lot of junk. I'm kind of partial to 5 channel / 6 channel multichannel amps for installs.
> 
> So the top three multichannel / hybrid amps I have worked with for SQ are:
> 
> Arc Audio KS900.6
> US Amps AX5600
> *Memphis Belle MCH1300*
> 
> By and large my fav is the the Memphis Belle. It may not stack up to the elite gear posted here, but it is my favorite SQ amp. Clean, powerful and reliable amp. Love it. It was one of those installs where you secretly wished the owner would have "problems" with it so he would come back every now and then so I can play with it again. But 6 years strong its still rocking in a lovely BMW
> 
> As for specialized amp, I was fortunate to work on a car with old school MB Quart Q Series amps and components (pre-Maxxsonix era). These rocked too.


I had the old school Memphis belle chrome amp and it is by far the best sounding amp i've heard. Nice to see i'm not the only one who thinks memphis amps sound good. I haven't heard DLS, Genesis, Zapco, Poweramper so my opinion might change.


----------



## Hertz5400LincolnLS

stockman2010 said:


> I had the old school Memphis belle chrome amp and it is by far the best sounding amp i've heard. Nice to see i'm not the only one who thinks memphis amps sound good. I haven't heard DLS, Genesis, Zapco, Poweramper so my opinion might change.


I'm running a o/s black chrome Memphis Belle right now and replacing it will be three same style Memphis amps. I like the way they sound and they are underrated.


----------



## Sound Suggestions

I voted for Zapco because I just purchase a Ref 1100.1, 360.4 and a 350.2 lol....haven't heard them yet but I hope they sound as good as my Lrx 5.1k!


----------



## tnbubba

carver m240/..

bookoo's of power.. got 2 still running!


----------



## tiznaki

Voted for the only amp on the list i've owned, the C2K's.


----------



## SQ_Bronco

ChrisB said:


> I only bash those overpriced amplifiers that don't perform in accordance with their price tag! A DPSQ50 that routinely goes for $750 on eBay yet has a squealing transformer is a prime example of a product that doesn't live up to the price it commands.





jimmy2345 said:


> That's odd. I have owned two and neither made any noise other than exquisite sound.


A squealing transformer is extremely common on an older amp. It happens because the original varnish that was applied at the factory became brittle with age and thermal cycles and eventually turned to dust. It has nothing really to do with the quality of the amp, itself, unless you buy a new amp, and you hear it right away. It's something that will happen to every amp, eventually. It's incredibly trivial to fix, as well- just buy a can of spray varnish from home depot for $4, spray it 3-4 times, separated by about 2 hours, squeezing the wires with your fingers (latex-ed, duh) while you do it. Sometimes you can fix it with nothing more than a squirt of hot glue. This is on par with "I had to replace the input caps" as "stupidest reasons to "hate on" older amps" that I've ever heard. It's exactly like hating on a 1967 mustang because the OEM tires were bald when you bought it in 1997.

Some components have shelf lives, and need to be replaced after a time (caps, relays), and others require maintenance (transformers, pots, some solder joints). if you don't maintain them, they fail, or degrade. This isn't rocket science, and if you don't have the skills to replace a 79 cent cap or quiet a transformer, then you should probably have someone else install your gear for you, or just pay $300 more for a similar quality product that was manufactured more recently.

Anyway, I'll throw a shout out for the MMATS SQ2150. Very solid amp (as opposed to the class D amps of that series, that were a ton of power packed into a tiny package, but very fragile). And sexy TO-3's; just a lot of clean a/b power in a decent footprint. If only it had balanced inputs.


----------



## Cablguy184

my amps do not make noise of any kind ...


----------



## ChrisB

SQ_Bronco said:


> A squealing transformer is extremely common on an older amp. It happens because the original varnish that was applied at the factory became brittle with age and thermal cycles and eventually turned to dust. It has nothing really to do with the quality of the amp, itself, unless you buy a new amp, and you hear it right away. It's something that will happen to every amp, eventually. It's incredibly trivial to fix, as well- just buy a can of spray varnish from home depot for $4, spray it 3-4 times, separated by about 2 hours, squeezing the wires with your fingers (latex-ed, duh) while you do it. Sometimes you can fix it with nothing more than a squirt of hot glue. This is on par with "I had to replace the input caps" as "stupidest reasons to "hate on" older amps" that I've ever heard. It's exactly like hating on a 1967 mustang because the OEM tires were bald when you bought it in 1997.
> 
> Some components have shelf lives, and need to be replaced after a time (caps, relays), and others require maintenance (transformers, pots, some solder joints). if you don't maintain them, they fail, or degrade. This isn't rocket science, and if you don't have the skills to replace a 79 cent cap or quiet a transformer, then you should probably have someone else install your gear for you, or just pay $300 more for a similar quality product that was manufactured more recently.


Oh, believe me, I learned a lot since then, including how to repair amplifiers and accumulating the tools to do so. I currently have an Orion HCCA 225 on my bench awaiting some JFETs. While I am at it, I am going to replace the audio filtering caps along with most of the power supply caps. Speaking of cap replacement, I replaced capacitors in the primary side of the power supply just because I don't like the idea of using 85° C caps there.

My next endeavor is trying to figure out a neater looking way to replace those harder to find axial capacitors with radial caps.

Oh yeah, the DPSQ50 was fixed just by tightening one of the loose windings by hand. I'm sure its Japanese owner is enjoying it.


----------



## ZAKOH

Just curious, where do you all find all these amps online...?? I shop on places like crutchfield, sonicelectronix, and some amazon stores and never see any of these brands sold there.


----------



## subwoofery

Some have been discontinued, others are just Elite brands, most not sold on Internet. 
Try Woofersetc for some High End brands. 

Kelvin


----------



## Cablguy184

Ebay ...


----------



## 226z

Most of the time you have to contact the manufacturers of the high end amps to find a dealer and then just hope they have a dealer in the US...sometimes if they don't they will let you buy straight from them...


----------



## rockytophigh

OS Soundstream........anything Wade designed


----------



## edouble101

Good info in these pages


----------



## JBurt09

edouble101 said:


> Good info in these pages


Definitely.I'm subscribed


----------



## Arezump

i'll take that as a nice compliment which meant for me i suppoz? :laugh:


----------



## sdhaney

ive got an older model memphis belle- the black chrome one. how does this amp compare to the zapco's and audison's and other amps previously mentioned? its powerful, barely even gets warm, sounds great. however i am still in the process of my first build and im making sure i do plenty of research before i make any decision. i plan on keeping the amp because of the power it puts out, but how does it compare with these others?


----------



## jbreddawg

The belles are great amps,i have owned a few of them. I wouldn't put them in the same catagory of zapco's and audisons though . Still a nice clean amp. Use it !


----------



## sdhaney

jbreddawg said:


> The belles are great amps,i have owned a few of them. I wouldn't put them in the same catagory of zapco's and audisons though . Still a nice clean amp. Use it !


i plan on using it until it dies lol. even then ill go get it repaired. but just curious- what separates the belle from these higher end amps?


----------



## Commissionmip

I must say I love my Focal FP 2.150 and 2.75 amplifiers and my Rainbow DM2000.
Having went through aalot of amps, Alpine PDX's (1.1000, 2.150 and 4.100) I can say the Focal FP and Rainow amps are wonderful.


----------



## bbotelhoHI

of that list, ive only owned (and still own) the the DLS Ultimate A2 and A6 amps. compared to other digital amps that ive owned before, i LOVE them. but, my dream amp is the McIntosh MC440m...which i doubt i will ever own 

i was speaking with a friend the other day who plays with high end car audio for a living and he said between comprable DLS, Arc Audio, and Tru Tech Billet amps, in a direct swap comparison, the Tru amp was the hands down best sounding amp.


----------



## Commissionmip

Never say never


----------



## 1blualti

macintosh is def one of my favorite sq brand ampifiers...


----------



## Commissionmip

1blualti said:


> macintosh is def one of my favorite sq brand ampifiers...


I was looking at their amps and they seem to be built pretty well. There are a few people that are on EBAY that are selling their amp that they had since the early 90's!!!


----------



## SoundJunkie

I am running four Audio Art amplifiers on an active 3 way front end and a single sub in my truck. 1500 total rated watts at 12.5V so I have tons of headroom and the gains set really low.

They sound badass to me and those who have listened to it so far. Something to be said for 20 year old hand built amps! 

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## Jonny Hotnuts

Milbert not on the list????

One thing that I have found that just because you have a high end SQ amp on an equally high end refrence front stage does not mean the amp will sound better then other amps on different sepperates. 


For instance:

I experimented with different amp combos on different component systems.

I found that the Macintosh sounded better then a Sony XES M50 when played on Rainbow separates but the XES M50 sounded better then the Mac on Dynaudio and Focal. 

I came to the conclusion that some amps are better suited to the particulars of the drivers they are powering.....not to sound crazy but it seemed some amps favored some speakers more then others. 

~JH


----------



## Resonant

Zapco!


----------



## Commissionmip

I just upgraded from a Rainbow DM2000 to a Focal 1.800 and there was a huge difference!

Subwoofer: Vented Alpine Type X 10"

The Rainbow made the X sound beautiful, but the Focal really work the X. Its hard to explain but there was DEFINETLY a difference.

The Focal was sending *600 RMS* to the Type X *13.8V* continuously @ 2 Ohms 

The Rainbow was sending *730 RMS* to the Type X *14.4V* @ 2 Ohms

The only thing about the Focal is that it did shut down on me during a long bass peak, but it came back on within seconds. This could be because the Type X needs alot of power, or because I'm running my system on one battery (NOT STOCK!)

Nevertheless..... I love the way the Focal sounds over the Rainbow. Just waiting for my sealed box to be built for my HX300D


----------



## 05impalaSS

I am pretty stuck on these..they run circles around my old Eclipse amps!


----------



## mcm308

rockytophigh said:


> OS Soundstream........anything Wade designed


+1 to this.. I just picked up a Reference Class A3.0 for a dance..lol


----------



## Jsracing

I've owned the old Zapco competition series and Xtant 1001d amps and heard the latest Audison LRx amps. Of these 3 I've experienced, my preference is the following:

1. Zapco competition (my old Z250C4-SL is still my most beloved amp)
2. Xtant (old ones, not the new ones...my 1001d got stolen)
3. Audison LRx

With the Audison LRx, I don't know if it was the amp or the speakers (Hertz HSKs) or a combo of them both, but the mids during rock songs seemed to blur vocals and instruments a bit. The new Audison TH amps look very interesting.


----------



## Exo5168

This thread has given me mucho amp envy.


----------



## Born2Rock

Look what I just got,
...an *Audison Thesis TH Venti ! *
(I haven't installed it yet) 

This will be matched w/ my *DynAudio Esotar2 Tweeters !! *
Now I need another Venti for my Esotar2 Mids.
(i'm saving up more MULLA $$$ for that amp) 














​


----------



## torontooddysey

that tru setup is rediculous.. what's your address?


----------



## Cablguy184

Cablguy184 said:


> Thank you for the kind words for our team here ...
> My personal favorite SQ amp would be the Linear Power 2.2hv. Very strong, clear sounding amplifier. thanks, Randal ...


Actually, I was a little off on this one ... Cause I have 2 favorites ...
And I run both of these ... Linear Power 2.2hv and the Linear Power 5002iq ...


----------



## pickup1

Wow..haven't seen blues speakers in awhile!


----------



## Cablguy184

pickup1 said:


> Wow..haven't seen blues speakers in awhile!


Thanks bro !!! Yea, I have alot of fun with those ISO-Kits !!! 
Back in production BTW ...


----------



## vfparts

Has anyone here had any experience with the genesis profile utra amps. Im curious how they are as far as sq goes.


----------



## subwoofery

Ultras are serious performer... Can't go wrong really 

Kelvin


----------



## vfparts

great, thank you very much.


----------



## regxjin

wow..

I can't believe none of you guys mentioned....

Phass Amplifiers, Luxman Amplifiers, AND.....
the EPIC EPIC SoundStream Human Reign Series....

SHAME ON YOU GUYS!!!


----------



## Lance_S

I have owned Rockford, Orion (old school), Soundstream (old school), Mcintosh, and a few others I can't remember anymore. I am kinda partial to these tho:

Anyone recognize?


----------



## 2167

Lance_S said:


> I have owned Rockford, Orion (old school), Soundstream (old school), Mcintosh, and a few others I can't remember anymore. I am kinda partial to these tho:
> 
> Anyone recognize?


Phoenix gold ms series?


----------



## Lance_S

Well done.

A pair of 2125's and a 275. Tough to mistake the guts of a PG but well done nonetheless!


----------



## TrickyRicky

Lance_S said:


> Well done.
> 
> A pair of 2125's and a 275. Tough to mistake the guts of a PG but well done nonetheless!


All I see is a bunch of GOLD. Nice, very nice.


----------



## tnbubba

hey lets not forget SPARKOMATIC!


----------



## regxjin

MarkZ said:


> The OP didn't say it but the responders did.


usually when people what amps they like best...
almost always refer means which amp sounds the best......


----------



## tnbubba

DUH! SPARKOMATIC ALL THE WAY BABY!!! rotflmao


----------



## jbreddawg

tnbubba said:


> DUH! SPARKOMATIC ALL THE WAY BABY!!! rotflmao


We all had some sparkomatic and Kraco at one time in our lives :blush:


----------



## Arezump

Born2Rock said:


> Look what I just got,
> ...an *Audison Thesis TH Venti ! *
> (I haven't installed it yet)
> 
> This will be matched w/ my *DynAudio Esotar2 Tweeters !! *
> Now I need another Venti for my Esotar2 Mids.
> (i'm saving up more MULLA $$$ for that amp)
> 
> View attachment 25853
> 
> 
> View attachment 25854​


That is sooOOooooo SICKKKKK!!!!


----------



## Born2Rock

Arezump said:


> That is sooOOooooo SICKKKKK!!!!


Thanks Arezump ! 

What's even sicker than the HV Venti's looks is the amps *dynamics and clarity *which leads to *true imaging*. 

The amp is set in *Class 'A' @ 400 watts per channel *and is solely used on my *Esotar2 Tweeters *, which are* On-Axis and Time Aligned !*


----------



## kenn_chan

Ban Hammer said:


> *This is your final warning, Jamie Armstrong.
> Attempt to sell items again without posting in the classifieds and without the minimum post count, and you're history.
> Strike two.*


Wow, this forum is strict..... well as long as we allknow the rules, seems like fair play


----------



## 226z

How did that end up in this thread? As long as your on the subject tho, does anyone understand why exactly there is a minimum post rule on here before you can list stuff for sale??? Only forum I've ever been a member of that's like that, and I just dont understand what they gain by that rule...


----------



## jbreddawg

226z said:


> How did that end up in this thread? As long as your on the subject tho, does anyone understand why exactly there is a minimum post rule on here before you can list stuff for sale??? Only forum I've ever been a member of that's like that, and I just dont understand what they gain by that rule...


They gain not having people join and flooding the board with stuff for sale taking peoples money and dissapearing. 
Scammers are much less likely to stick around if they have to be here long enough to have 50 posts before running their scams dont you think ?
If you want to read more about it heres a three page thread on the subject .
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/moderation-dump/89752-50-posts-make-thread-classifieds-section-needs-changed.html


----------



## 226z

Isn't that why Paypal was invented? I've bought a lot of softball bats off of Craigslist and been scammed many times, but never has someone been able to run off with my money. They simply have to pay it back...


----------



## kenn_chan

226z said:


> Isn't that why Paypal was invented? I've bought a lot of softball bats off of Craigslist and been scammed many times, but never has someone been able to run off with my money. They simply have to pay it back...


Paypal unfortunately is not the end all be all of safety they want you to believe. I recently bought a set of chris king/mavic wheel sets for my MTB on ebay. Theses would cost about 800 to build from scratch. Won the auction for 350 ish + shipping and the seller sent them to me USPS space available w/tracking. 

Being that I am on a military base overseas this means that the shipping time via USPS in a space A category will take months. By the time they arrive, my ability to file a complaint against the seller is zero. Paypal says that as they have been accepted by the USPS and there is tracking that I cannot file a complaint unless they do not arrive, or are not as advertised. Catch 22 is that they will arrive well after the 45 day mark stipulated by paypal. So I cannot file a complaint.

End result is that they could be damaged, or he might have shipped some POS junk from a department store bike just to make it look correct and I am out 350 + shipping. So FWIW a 50 post count, or paying a membership is worthwhile I think.


----------



## jbreddawg

Paypal has helped me in the past but it certainly isnt foolproof. I just recently had someone claim to have not received their item after 5 weeks. Lucky for me I kept all the paperwork. 
What scares me about paypal is what if someone sends you a box of rocks ? Prove otherwise lol Seller will have proof of delivery and thats all he needs as far as paypal is concerned. 
I personally would much rather judge a deal by a persons actions on this forum .


----------



## kenn_chan

jbreddawg said:


> Paypal has helped me in the past but it certainly isnt foolproof. I just recently had someone claim to have not received their item after 5 weeks. Lucky for me I kept all the paperwork.
> What scares me about paypal is what if someone sends you a box of rocks ? Prove otherwise lol Seller will have proof of delivery and thats all he needs as far as paypal is concerned.
> I personally would much rather judge a deal by a persons actions on this forum .


Exactly, had that happen with a turbocharger I bought off of some clown on the RX-7 forum. He packed a box with some books, and wrapped them in old clothes and ****, it weighed enough, and was about the right size.

ken

to the OP......Sorry for the thread Jack.


----------



## 808Munkyeee

sundown


----------



## SkizeR

i personally like the audioson amps..


----------



## Schneiderd

McIntosh vacuum tube amps.


----------



## tnbubba

i prefer great big titties n ice cold beer!


----------



## jimmy2345

L. Pizzy


----------



## b&camp

The amps that my wife does mods on.


----------



## davidsw

linear power hands down.zapco 2nd hands down and rockwood comes in 992nd place


----------



## tnbubba

linear power lmao "dad that amp sounds like crap! I like the blue one much better!"

my 10 yr old musician after listening to some amps on home system !!!


----------



## Evil Ryu

808Munkyeee said:


> sundown


explain.


----------



## Frijoles24

Evil Ryu said:


> explain.


HahA I want it too.

I like my ads pq20. Straight amplification


----------



## 808Munkyeee

Evil Ryu said:


> explain.


they have good tuning capabilites. the 250.4 and the 100.4


----------



## 226z

Well I just checked out they're website and without a reputation similar to Sinfoni, they're going to have to put a lot more detailed specs and info on exactly how they're amps are made before I would spend money on one of they're amps for all out sq without a budget in mind. Just saying >90 db for SNR for example just isn't going to cut it without a reputation for actual numbers to be more like 120 at least...


----------



## 808Munkyeee

226z said:


> Well I just checked out they're website and without a reputation similar to Sinfoni, they're going to have to put a lot more detailed specs and info on exactly how they're amps are made before I would spend money on one of they're amps for all out sq without a budget in mind. Just saying >90 db for SNR for example just isn't going to cut it without a reputation for actual numbers to be more like 120 at least...


who you talkin too and what amps


----------



## 226z

Those Sundown amps....


----------



## 808Munkyeee

there are >120db amps meann


----------



## DinLuca

Voted on Lrx, considering their prices nowadays, and the build quality also.

Personally, i like Macintosh a lot. The others i didn't listen anything with them yet.


----------



## 226z

Mc Intosh still makes a quality product...never had a single issue with one. Monk did you mean the sundowns are greater than 120 or were you asking if there are amps that actually test out greater than 120 db?


----------



## 808Munkyeee

yeah i dont get what he is saying. Also how good are the sinfoni amps? How do you check the sq of the amp? what number and spec are posted on the amp that shows how good amp they are?


----------



## 226z

Well that's the hard part....there is no way to know exactly how good an amp is made...Specs can give you an idea, but without reading where ppl you trust have actually tested an amp, or knowing the build quality of one its all just a guess. Like I said before, reputation counts for a lot, and some companies know that is better than measuring specs, so they don't print the specs of they're amps. Basically tho, THD needs to be measured across the entire hearable bandwidth instead of just a number that says it was simply tested below .1 mhz I believe is the common number many companies measure at. After that, SNR and channel separation are the common numbers looked at. Basically, you don't want to spend a bunch of money on a HU that's carepable of an SNR greater than 120 and channel separation above 80 and then go out and buy an amp that can't keep the signal as clean as the HU after its amplified. After all that you just want an amp that can amplify the signal as clear as possible without adding its own coloration, and then it just needs to be well built so it doesn't tear up within a year. What makes it so difficult with any aspect of car audio is many many companies publish sq numbers that are a total lie because there's really nothing much that has ever been done to a company who lies about they're specs. Also, lots of car audio companies pop up for a relatively short period of time, lie about they're specs and make a quick fortune off the profits.


----------



## jester

Xtant is my amp of choice!


----------



## Evil Ryu

808Munkyeee said:


> they have good tuning capabilites. the 250.4 and the 100.4


ok..


----------



## 808Munkyeee

ok what? they have built in crossover for every channel go check one


----------



## Gpgtp

I like the focal amps. That said, I have old diamond audio amps (d7 series) and I really like them!


----------



## triatletadan

i liked the mcintosh amps, i will test the 602 now


----------



## DAT

Gpgtp said:


> I like the focal amps. That said, I have old diamond audio amps (d7 series) and I really like them!


D7 amps hell yeah !! Focal amps like 4.75 are actually not so good, we have tested them and not very impressive so we opened one to find the cheapest parts around. Made in Korean also.

speakers yeah , subs pass on bye.


----------



## subwoofery

DAT said:


> D7 amps hell yeah !! Focal amps like 4.75 are actually not so good, we have tested them and not very impressive so we opened one to find the cheapest parts around. Made in Korean also.
> 
> speakers yeah , subs pass on bye.


Felt the same way and I'm a die hard Focal user freak :blush: 
They just wanted to make more money. 
They don't even make amp for home audio so it's easy to understand why their car amps aren't that good. 

HOWEVER, that little 4.75 has amazing power - bridged channel is able to move the big 40KX and power it properly. 
Don't know much about their new FPS line and actually don't wanna know about it 

Kelvin


----------



## DAT

subwoofery said:


> Felt the same way and I'm a die hard Focal user freak :blush:
> They just wanted to make more money.
> They don't even make amp for home audio so it's easy to understand why their car amps aren't that good.
> 
> HOWEVER, that little 4.75 has amazing power - bridged channel is able to move the big 40KX and power it properly.
> Don't know much about their new FPS line and actually don't wanna know about it
> 
> Kelvin



Agreed 110% , we all know you if you don't care for something it sucks...

I do love the mid to upper end speakers.....


----------



## Evil Ryu

jester said:


> Xtant is my amp of choice!


always wanted to hear one of those, since the ppi crew went to xtant before going over to JL


----------



## Bluliner

Evil Ryu said:


> always wanted to hear one of those, since the ppi crew went to xtant before going over to JL


The 2200ix was a real gem. The old Xtant EQs were pretty neat too...needed an RTA though.


----------



## ssc_wilson

You left out jl audio which has some of the best sq products


----------



## DAT

ssc_wilson said:


> You left out jl audio which has some of the best sq products


I guess  If you believe so. Sure !


----------



## ChrisB

One of the things I found that separates the men from the boys is how the better amplifiers clip. If I could get this sinus headache to go away, I'd test out the JL Audio HD900/5 and even head to head it against my old setup... Oh well, there is always next weekend.


----------



## big jerm

Linear Power DPS, HV
Thor VII
QAS Lunar any model, Still made in South Louisiana USA!


----------



## davidsw

JL does get alot attention.


----------



## SACRAMANIAC916

davidsw said:


> JL does get alot attention.


The HD series is nice


----------



## ChrisB

big jerm said:


> *QAS Lunar any model, Still made in South Louisiana USA!*


I really like Kenny's products!



davidsw said:


> JL does get alot attention.





SACRAMANIAC916 said:


> The HD series is nice


Look at what one lil ole HD900/5 is going to replace in my trunk:


----------



## triatletadan

Evil Ryu said:


> always wanted to hear one of those, since the ppi crew went to xtant before going over to JL


I had a X603... very under rated amp and one of the most beaultiful amps, but one step below Macs in dynamics.


----------



## Evil Ryu

per my experienced SQ competitor friend:

*Alpine MRV-F900*


















alpine F1>tru tech copper series>brax


----------



## davidsw

F900 LOOKS NICE


----------



## go_go_thrash

I like Audio Art and the old Zed stuff.


----------



## stussycole

My favorites so far are the old Soundstream reference amps. Everything from the 200 to the 10.0 sounds great. The older Soundstream D series amps are nice too, but most that I have used have slight turn-on/off pops. 

And so you know where I am coming from I have also used the old champagne Sony amps, the black Zapco reference series, Hifonics VIII, and the new Rockford Power.


----------



## cgw

What about the Mosconi amps?


----------



## bertholomey

cgw said:


> What about the Mosconi amps?


No.... those suck! 



JK..... they are nice amps


----------



## Darth SQ

Hadn't gone through this thread prior to today due to a lack of time but I finally got up to speed.
I was surprised that these weren't directly mentioned.
Weren't these the pinnacle sq amp of their day and to some degree today?
I know I think so.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## Florida Rep

Arc Audio Signature Series
Mosconi AS Line

I own both


----------



## Florida Rep

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Hadn't gone through this thread prior to today due to a lack of time but I finally got up to speed.
> I was surprised that these weren't directly mentioned.
> Weren't these the pinnacle sq amp of their day and to some degree today?
> I know I think so.
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Nice collection!! Best SQ amps of the 90's award


----------



## silversound

I used Linear Power through out the 90's and I switched to Lunar in the 2000's. I loved the Linear Power amps.


----------



## The Tube Doctor

Still have my 1st gen Xtant 2200i, but I'd have to give the nod to 
my Audison HR-100.
Several VRX 4/300 and a couple of 6/420 sitting around in need of repair.
They're sweet amps, but unlucky for me.............
I'm sure there are a couple of Audison HR-Trenta boards around somewhere.
Part of a custom amp build that never got off the ground.
Those were very nice sounding, powerful amps.
Too many amps, so little time. (the shoe-maker's children go barefoot.......)


----------



## Evil Ryu

how do people like the old school zapco reference amps?


----------



## bonvivant

What about the Steg K series?


----------



## Yepvegas

Well my first amp that I purchased USED in 1995 was a ADS PH15.2. It has been installed in the last 4 cars I have had a system in one was in a work van. It still works has always fit the bill for what I needed, I am in the planning stage to get it installed in my SX4 Sport sedan. I cannot wait.


----------



## Hifonic

Mosconi it the ****


----------



## sqnut

SQ is what you hear at ear level. Your source and amps play a small part, choice of speakers is more important. Placement is next in line. At the end of the chain, managing your environment and dsp are the most important.


----------



## Bluliner

sqnut said:


> SQ is what you hear at ear level. Your source and amps play a small part, choice of speakers is more important. Placement is next in line. At the end of the chain, managing your environment and dsp are the most important.


I see where you're coming from but I have to disagree...at least from the point of view of most car audio shoppers. I say this b/c most people do not possess the tools, know-how, or patience to effectively tune & tolerate most DSPs nor are they willing to extensively modify their vehicle to accommodate better speaker placement. So OEM speaker locations will have to do. 

In my experience, the source unit makes the biggest difference followed by the amplifier. A gritty & thin sounding DAC will make everything in the chain sound thin & gritty...ditto for the amps when they clip (and most are set up that way). 

A HU with a smooth sounding DAC, like an old Eclipse, and a warm sounding amp that clips well will really make the most difference to most car audio shoppers. So-so speakers running off a good amp & source can sound wonderful in a plug & play type installation. Would it sound better with a well sorted DSP & moving the drivers around? Of course, but most people don't want to start cutting apart their leased car and DSPs in the hands of an inexperienced user causes more problems than it solves. 

So while you're dead-on with your assessment regarding the hierarchy of gear for many on this forum, I can honestly say that doesn't apply to most people. 

HU & amps; that's were it's at for John Q. Public.


----------



## sqnut

Bluliner said:


> I see where you're coming from but I have to disagree...at least from the point of view of most car audio shoppers. I say this b/c most people do not possess the tools, know-how, or patience to effectively tune & tolerate most DSPs nor are they willing to extensively modify their vehicle to accommodate better speaker placement. So OEM speaker locations will have to do.
> 
> In my experience, the source unit makes the biggest difference followed by the amplifier. A gritty & thin sounding DAC will make everything in the chain sound thin & gritty...ditto for the amps when they clip (and most are set up that way).
> 
> A HU with a smooth sounding DAC, like an old Eclipse, and a warm sounding amp that clips well will really make the most difference to most car audio shoppers. So-so speakers running off a good amp & source can sound wonderful in a plug & play type installation. Would it sound better with a well sorted DSP & moving the drivers around? Of course, but most people don't want to start cutting apart their leased car and DSPs in the hands of an inexperienced user causes more problems than it solves.
> 
> So while you're dead-on with your assessment regarding the hierarchy of gear for many on this forum, I can honestly say that doesn't apply to most people.
> 
> HU & amps; that's were it's at for John Q. Public.


Well put and I agree with the above, except that even for a plug and play application in stock locations, I'd run better speakers with a midline amp rather than the other way round.


----------



## 226z

Not to start an even bigger discussion and drag an old thread even more that has pretty much been covered from most all angles I can see, but I don't think most ppl are into sq, so that makes what you said irrelevant...I also have no idea the difference between good clipping and bad clipping...all sounds bad to me...


----------



## bonvivant

Once your past 30 I think you convert to SQ!


----------



## voodoosoul

Always like a/d/s 20th anniversary .2 amps


----------



## stony22

old soundstreams, Mac's and my favorite H/K


----------



## dualmono21

i all honesty i dont think there is a best , just something thats more suitable than another and the only way to tell if something is more suitable is to swap it out and try it 
every system is individual therefore cannot be compared 

i started out using old pioneer amps from the eighties 
then went on to kenwood ps series amps ps100 still stands out for me great amp 
then went onto rockford had a couple of 60ix and a 100ix (have still got them )
then bought my first set of high end amps (genesis series 3 two dual monos and a monoblock ) great great amps but became too popular ,so i sold them 
than had 7 x xtant 2200ix amps superb amplifier a real gem and very underrated (still have one left in attic)
now i use old school phase linear amplifiers 4.8kw + 0.6skw + 1.2skw two complete sets and two monoblocks 
have just managed to get my hands on 3 old school zapco 151 and 151a amplifiers 
so i will try these next hopefully


----------



## Linear Power

I really like Linear Power and Monolithic Sound the best.


----------



## psychon

I am loving how my DLS Scandinavia 3 ways sound paired with the DLS TA2 hybrid tube amplifiers.


----------



## xMplar

well id be an idiot if i didnt say it but i have a couple of them my first will always be STEG MASTERSTROKE amps although pricey they are amazing then its a toss up between the AS mosconi amps and the new Gladen audio amps called Gladen Zeros the tag line for them is "You know those amps you always dreamed of owning, Well these are three times better" or sumthing like that its kind of mix of italian flair from audiosystem and steg and mosconi and som good old fashion german technolagy and knowhow and effecency first there was mosconi then came the mall foot print gladen ONE amps now they bring you GLDANE ZERO (que angels singing ) i haver the mosconi amps and have used or am using most of them but i also have the masterstroke amps from steg before they wqent broke back when they got signed by the ppl who built them etc so fo rme thats my most favorite SQ amps 
Ren
xMplar


----------



## tonym

Where is the Phoenix gold choice?


----------



## Winno

Tru Billet (out of the list provided) with all the fruit (PS and opamps).
Here's one I installed into a friend's car on the weekend.

I still like my original Phoenix Gold Titanium amps (500.4 and 600.2) going into the Honda.


----------



## mr sideways

im quite happy with my genesis profile amps.
not quite as good as the S3 but still pretty damn good for the money.


----------



## xMplar

as far as the list provided id have to say the sinfoni but not nessesarlilty the 

ones listed as sinfoni do sum awsum amps and im a bit of fanboy for the 

italian amps the clestras are cool too but the genisis are also very good not a 

fan of the brax the mcintosh or the audisson allthough the aussions are good 

im just not a fan as there are better italina made amps available its hard as 

the amps listed have alot of pros and cons for all of them the sinfoni 

amplitudes tho in my opinion are the best on the list but for me perosoanally 

id go with the MOSCONI amps over the sinfoni but for the look of a little bit 

more bling the sinfoni for pure sound id have to say the mosconi A Class or 

the STEG MASTERSTROKE classe A or MSK50SC or MSK1500 or MSK3000 eres 

an install of masterstroke from im not sure where but its is simply sexy

and i belive the guy is using focal utopias i think but dont quote me they maybe italian or german spoeakers im unsure but if the install is anything to go by the sound from these if imaged rite will be farkin fantastic

Ren
xMplar

p.s. sorry for lack of punctuation im dislexicc and sumtimes its hard just to spellc orrectly so punctuatuation is even harder i will try to make posts as readable as possiblie tho
Ren


----------



## sqeclipse

I am currently running alpine F1 MRV F900 and LOVE it, SOO Warm and lively Had a full Mcintosh and Audison VRX series before.


----------



## ecbmxer

psychon said:


> I am loving how my DLS Scandinavia 3 ways sound paired with the DLS TA2 hybrid tube amplifiers.


Ahhh. THat's probably wonderful!


----------



## 1990tsi

I used a lot of amps when I was younger (late 90s early 2000s) and I could never tell one amp from another, they all sounded the same, some were just louder than others...

until I used an Audison LRx 4.300 

That was right around the time I realized I couldn't afford to have the nice things I wanted and pretty much got out of car audio. 

damn you audison for being so expensive and so good


----------



## ADCS-1

McIntosh. But, it depends also on source and speakers. For my old MB Quart OSD`s, Soundstream where to brigth, H/K TC-series even worse, DLS good in the top, but not that "body" in the midrange as the MC 431. And yes, i`ve done some blind tests, with my dog. Done some recordings of another (larger) dog, and sat my afghan hound in the passenger seat. The McIntosh setup scared the dog into the backseat,while she just looking at the dashboard using DLS and some other amps. Unusual test, but little doggie dont know difference of amps.


----------



## ~Spyne~

Whichever one suits my power, size and cost requirements without resorting to eBay crap.
Then again, I do like the warm fuzzy feeling of using something from the big guns - currently running Audison LRx and DLS RA amps.
Now looking into shipping a Zuki over to Oz


----------



## 2LOUD2OLD

~Spyne~ said:


> Now looking into shipping a Zuki over to Oz


ah.... so would this be the super secret plans for 2012 then Adam?


----------



## nc0110

Im disappointed to not see the ppi art on this list...makes me feel kinda jipped that i spent money on a 20 year old amp, lol...


----------



## xMplar

for me i have said it onece already but the Mosconi amps are just super nuts however the new Gladen Zero amps designed by Ivan mosconi and the Gladen audio team are better again and sexy as too the look like the class A mosconi they will be the next set of amps to be going into my beasty partly cause im involved with them and partly cause of how good they are aswell 
Ren
xMplar


----------



## TrickyRicky

Boss, Pyle, Pyramid just to name a few.


----------



## Darth SQ

nc0110 said:


> Im disappointed to not see the ppi art on this list...makes me feel kinda jipped that i spent money on a 20 year old amp, lol...


Some just overlook the obvious. 



















Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## OLDSCHOOLAUDIONUT

I agree Bret!Why shouldn't these be on the list for consideration???


----------



## OLDSCHOOLAUDIONUT

Or Why didn't these make the list??? My $.02

Thanks!


----------



## Darth SQ

OLDSCHOOLAUDIONUT said:


> Or Why didn't these make the list??? My $.02
> 
> Thanks!


Dave,

Awesome!
Your collection never ceases to amaze me.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## OLDSCHOOLAUDIONUT

Thanks Bret!
I love the old stuff! The undesirable to some.old outdated junk..lol
Anyone got any junk laying around that looks like these tinted models? The amps Start with E's I believe


----------



## putergod

Old: SoundStream Reference and Reference Class A
New: Mmats

I read an article in the early 90's, when the Reference series first came out, that I found intriguing enough to audition them. I want to say it was in Stereophile magazine, but I could be mistaken. Anyway, the gist of it was that the reviewer stated that the Reference 500 sounded so good, he found himself listening to the music instead of the amp, and had to redo the test. He also stated that the SoundStream Reference was going to replace his "reference" amp that he had been using for years, because it was simply the best sounding amp he had ever heard.


----------



## claytonzmvox

friends, I love my Audio Art amplifiers are old and perfect. I will use for a long time!


----------



## robert_wrath

OLDSCHOOLAUDIONUT said:


> Or Why didn't these make the list??? My $.02
> 
> Thanks!


I love these Esoteric Audio Amps. WTG!


----------



## hemimaddness

out of all the amps i've had in my 20 plus years i would have to be rite now arc audio se amps are my fave .love these amps


----------



## claytonzmvox

claytonzmvox said:


> friends, I love my Audio Art amplifiers are old and perfect. I will use for a long time!


I need an amp audio art that responds bridged 600 rms!!


----------



## TrickyRicky

claytonzmvox said:


> I need an amp audio art that responds bridged 600 rms!!


If you need that much power just use a class D amp. Aren't all those AudioArt amps A/B's.


----------



## audioanamoly

ChrisB said:


> I wonder if it has a warm, natural, open sound to it that accurately reproduces the music as the artist intended it to be reproduced?
> 
> Edit: I wonder if any of these individuals touting their "best" amplifier could even double blind pick out their precious favorite in a double blind test with statistically significant results?


I know this is a old thread....but I highly doubt it!


----------



## audioanamoly

OLDSCHOOLAUDIONUT said:


> Or Why didn't these make the list??? My $.02
> 
> Thanks!


That is an incredibly beautiful site!!


----------



## Suicide Bobb

I've had PPI Art, Soundstream Reference, A/D/S/ PQ, PG MS, the list goes on. My two favorite sounding amps are my small collection of Earthquake PA-series and my Sony XM-801.


----------



## OLDSCHOOLAUDIONUT

audioanamoly said:


> That is an incredibly beautiful site!!


Thank You!I'm Trying To find some brothers and sisters to adopt for my family of them


----------



## [email protected]

At this level it is just personal preference.

I loved Tube Driver amps, McIntosh, PPI art series. Probably the most transparent amp of the old school was the Phoenix Gold ZPA0.5

I also tend to prefer big power on a front stage. I have ran a Dynaudio system 240 with a PPI A600.2, 2 x McIntosh MC443M (1 per side), and also a Tube Driver 1500.

I would never run anything less than 150 of the cleanest watts avail. to a solid front stage...

Also had a friend run a 3 way Canton setup with a PG 0.5 and holy **** was that car amazing! Slightly clinical in terms of transparency but it was amazing in it's neutrality!

Just getting back in to this hobby after 8 years away so need to hear some of the new stuff...


----------



## narfoner

I voted Zapco out of those, however I'm not experienced with any of those other amps.


----------



## Se7en

I'd love to get my hands on some Audiowave. Either the stereo or monos would do just fine.


----------



## duane007

My faves to date:
Audio Art 400.2 and 100HC (current setup)
Xtant 2200i
Bucket list:
Linear power 2202
Tru


----------



## senior800

Se7en said:


> I'd love to get my hands on some Audiowave. Either the stereo or monos would do just fine.


I'd love a Cr-400. I assume it the most expensive (commercial) car amplifier that has ever been made? Certainly the sexiest!

I've owned a pair of Aspires which I sold for way too cheap, but am sure they don't compare.


----------



## cruzinbill

senior800 said:


> I'd love a Cr-400. I assume it the most expensive (commercial) car amplifier that has ever been made? Certainly the sexiest!
> 
> I've owned a pair of Aspires which I sold for way too cheap, but am sure they don't compare.


Not I, they seem rather bland for the price. Not saying they arent nice, just if I had unlimited money I wouldnt pick them.


----------



## NoelSibs

I've never bit the bullet and purchased one of these amps myself. But I've heard some of them in different systems and could never really get a great impression on whether what was good about the system was the amp, speakers, source, install or a combination of any of these factors in the system. I'm not saying they're not good. I'm just wondering how you really know if it's the amp that's great, or the system as a whole... I just know what sounds good to me but I can never pinpoint whether it's a particular part in the chain that's responsible for what I like.

Best amp I've ever owned was a Sony XM something or other from the early 90's (I think). It seemed to pair well with the Focal Polyglass I was using at the time. (mid 90's). I had a small budget back then but I lusted for those PPI Arts  Never heard one but EVERYONE I respected in the mobile audio community that I knew back then said they were awesome... That was good enough for me. Hehe


----------



## NoelSibs

Oh I forgot to put out my vote! I vote others... Specifically the PPI Arts 

Cheers!


----------



## Lance_S

The Phoenix Gold MS series amps are amazing. The 2125 rated at 2 x 125 tests out close to 200 and is crazy clean. Mono, that amp makes around 800 W. The big brother, the 2250 is a 2 x 250 amp and that one benches out over 400 per channel. The Gold boards with the plexi back are a thing of beauty. They should be on the list of top end SQ amps for sure.


----------



## SQ Audi

Helix Competition Classe A


----------



## cjcol1

I love sinfoni


----------



## TrickyRicky

Lance_S said:


> The Phoenix Gold MS series amps are amazing. The 2125 rated at 2 x 125 tests out close to 200 and is crazy clean. Mono, that amp makes around 800 W. The big brother, the 2250 is a 2 x 250 amp and that one benches out over 400 per channel. The Gold boards with the plexi back are a thing of beauty. They should be on the list of top end SQ amps for sure.


Working on a PG 3.0X that I got at a pawnshop "As Is" because one channel was very low. So far I have found out that they are very well built (atleast the ones with the gold traces). I would of expected to find blown transistors and resistors but when I opened it nothing everything perfect. After checking the circuit board I found out they used resistors as fuses (ofcourse with the help of my tech friend that pointed them out for me) and those resistors dont even show any sign of damage.

I'll get those resistors replaced and hopefully I dont have to mess with the output transistors but if I have to I know where to get them. Oh by the way it has 4 T03-P Toshiba (Japan) transistors..... ahhhh sexy.


----------



## CrossFired

Mooble said:


> I'm a fan of any amp that is basically nothing but a gain block. If I want crossovers, bass boost, or any other crap, I'll handle it at the source. I don't what my amp doing anything but amplifying.
> 
> I'm fondest of Tru, but Brax, Genesis, Sinfoni, do meet that requirement. That's what I loved about Linear Power amps, but the older they are, the noisier they could be. I see Tru as the modern successor to Linear Power.


A may need to give Tru a whirl, as I've owned/used about a dozen LP over the years. I really love the warm/natural sound of the old LP stuff.

I only had two issues with LP, first was electrically noisy(radio interference), and out of 10 plus amps(I used), I had at least 6 brake! Never from abuse, but always from cold solder joints or parts falling off the board. Sometimes I could fix them(easy when you find a part, then solder it back), sometimes I would just sell them to Ray(at TIPS).

In all fairness, I was an early user of LP, as my first after high school job was an installer at LP dealer in the early 80's. I was 14, and those were very
exciting times! My first solo install was two LP amps in a Camero, Audax separates in the doors and 4 8" woofer in the rear deck.


----------



## gpturbo81

linear power and zuki amps make me wet!


----------



## Dutchy

Audison thesis venti if only I could afford one!


----------



## soundboy

Hey..
Nice thread

Have just get TRU Billet B-2110 amp NIB very cheap. How sounds this amps? 

Had before T-4.65 and T-2.100 , are the big difference from T to B serial? 

For me , most the well be list of:

MacIntosh
Sony ES / XES
TRU
Soundstream Picasso (first model chrome)
Alpine (old V12 serial)


----------



## jriggs

moving from my previous amp to the soundstream hru.4 has been amazing in terms of sq and power.


----------



## Khymera-B

The Phoenix Gold MS2125 was probably the best amp that "I" ever owned.


----------



## CrossFired

TrickyRicky said:


> Working on a PG 3.0X that I got at a pawnshop "As Is" because one channel was very low. So far I have found out that they are very well built (atleast the ones with the gold traces). I would of expected to find blown transistors and resistors but when I opened it nothing everything perfect. After checking the circuit board I found out they used resistors as fuses (ofcourse with the help of my tech friend that pointed them out for me) and those resistors dont even show any sign of damage.
> 
> I'll get those resistors replaced and hopefully I dont have to mess with the output transistors but if I have to I know where to get them. Oh by the way it has 4 T03-P Toshiba (Japan) transistors..... ahhhh sexy.


The T03 Toshiba's are some of the best sounding outputs ever made!

I had a HighEnd home amp that used 40(20 per channel) T03 Toshiba's, to this day I've never heard a better SS amp, A Classe DR-9 came close.

I remember the odd thing about the T03-P Toshiba's were green.


----------



## TrickyRicky

CrossFired said:


> The T03 Toshiba's are some of the best sounding outputs ever made!
> 
> I had a HighEnd home amp that used 40(20 per channel) T03 Toshiba's, to this day I've never heard a better SS amp, A Classe DR-9 came close.
> 
> I remember the odd thing about the T03-P Toshiba's were green.


The last TO3-P's produced where green (according to a friend of mine), that was the last run before production stopped. There are replacements, but they will not be Toshiba more likely ST or ON would be a good choice.



Oh on the amplifier, I notice a *review* for the Zuki 4 Eleet amplifier that it also suffer from channels being slightly different in output voltage. Now Zuki is an expensive amplifier that claims to be top notch, so the reviewer wasn't expecting channels to be different - BUT he did mention he couldn't tell the difference as which channel is louded when music was played.

So am guessing my 3v difference may not be that bad. Dont get me wrong in a perfect world, I would want the channels to be perfectly equal (unless music otherwise says so) now the AA's I just sold had individual gains so it made matching outputs easy and perfectly.

Anyways I found where am loosing signal (its an op amp or its feedback cap) easy fix so I might get the parts and fix it, or just use it like that. Which by the way I did hook up for sub duty an THERE IS NO WAY you can tell which sub is getting those extra 3v. So not really sure if I should mess with it or just leave it as is - since its working with no problems.


By the way the 240.4XE AA, put out a total of 64v without clipping, the PG 3.0X only put out a total of 44v prior without clipping. Both on two 4-ohm loads, so am amazed how the AA could put out more power with a single 30amp fuse, while the PG has dual 30amp fuses, I probably could of got more from the AA but the fuse popped, and I wasn't going to replace it with a higher one- thats the new owners choice.


----------



## nickpsd

I voted other, PPI Pro Mos


----------



## Pimpnyou204

Dutchy said:


> Audison thesis venti if only I could afford one!


Get me one of these and i doubt I would trade another amp again atleast for highs lol. Looking to try Zuki next so hopefully i can. Its apparently all the rave now.


----------



## Ampman

My first pick is old school PPI AM series for sure, I've got a Carver that sounds incredible very clean an balanced amp. ZAPCO, Orion, more for bass in my opinion but HIFONICS, AUTOTEK. I had a Sony XM-4030 that would have been great for highs that sucker would slap scream lol.  I've got a really old, old school SoundStream SF-90 that thing sounds pertty dang good also. Love those old school amps


----------



## 12monster

My first experience with McIntosh started with MX-406 during the 90s and loves them ever since!!


----------



## quadaychoi

great stuff


----------



## Roberto

*MCINTOSH* is the best amp on earth also ZUKI is excellent amp too IMHO


----------



## Bad_Cheetah

Ive used McIntosh, Soundstream Reference and Adcom

Adcom
McIntosh
SS

My order of preference.


----------



## Q-Authority

First two PA series from Nakamichi (made in Japan) and first two D series from Soundtream, I & II (made in USA). Both companies started by the same guy. Ultra musical, and specs you could swear by.


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## Audioholik

2 best cars I've heard... one was running Zapco c2k, the other a bunch of xtant mono blocks.. 

I prefer Crunch.


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## JeremyC

I know the poll is closed, But I have to add one for Genesis Series 3. I had 4 dual mono's in my accord, and I loved them. 

Then again, maybe I'm just a sucker for Dual Mono type amps. I Had 2 Sony Moble ES 260Gs in my S10, and I loved them too. 

FYI. I ran JL Slash Series between the Sony's and the Genesis Series 3, and I would pick either dual mono over the Slash series stuff.


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## chijioke penny

Zapco c2k and Tru are my picks!!!!


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## Lord Raven

Focal Dual Mono Direct
Focal FP 1.800 Mono

Both in Limited Edition are my picks.. Pretty clean and powerful..


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