# New SMD product? AMM-1



## ccapil (Jun 1, 2013)

New Product the SMD AMM-1 Audio Multi-Meter - D'Amore Engineering (Proto pics, Finished Pics, Video, Owners Manual pg.4) - D'Amore Engineering - High Quality Car Audio Installation Tools & Accessories - SMD Forum

What do you guys think?
Looks pretty interesting.


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## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

ccapil said:


> New Product the SMD AMM-1 Audio Multi-Meter - D'Amore Engineering (Proto pics, Finished Pics, Video, Owners Manual pg.4) - D'Amore Engineering - High Quality Car Audio Installation Tools & Accessories - SMD Forum
> 
> What do you guys think?
> Looks pretty interesting.


Looks promising. A little bit costly imho

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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

If you consider all that this little device can do, and measure, the price is reasonable in comparison. If you had to go out and purchase a unit of each of the things it measure, what do you think you would be paying? Plus its not like the unit is poorly made. It has the SMD assurance stamp and all of his products are created D'Amore. If you dont know who he is, he was one of the Engineers that created some of RFs best amps.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

how does this, and his other products compare to a decent o-scope?


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## Beckerson1 (Jul 3, 2012)

One of the only things (From them) I would use all the time. Has a lot of useful features but for the price I will wait to see how it performs compared to other methods...


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

399? LOL


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## Bama-Boy (Nov 17, 2013)

It would probably sell more if it didn't have SMD written on it.


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

I wouldn't buy that thing if it was $29.95.
I take that back.It does have a True RMS meter.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

ATOMICTECH62 said:


> I wouldn't buy that thing if it was $29.95.
> I take that back.It does have a True RMS meter.


does this thing do anything an o-scope cant?


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## ccapil (Jun 1, 2013)

There is nothing like a decent oscope. I like to "see" the sine wave. But in saying that the AMM-1 has a true power Dyno and easy on the fly readings for ac and dc voltage. If it was cheaper I would buy it, but I still would use a oscope. I just like a screen with the sine wave etc instead of a small led screen. But a good product.


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

The only thing I can see it does a scope cant is the power factor.Which I think is pretty useless.It has an inductance ammeter to 100 amps and my handheld scope has a shunt current meter to 10 amps.However,there is the option to use an inductance ammeter with any volt meter.The clamp isnt that expensive.

To me,all the gadgets they offer are useless.Its like they are making a product for people who dont understand anything about audio but ohms and power output.The SPL crowd.

Even if someone spends $1000 on all these hand held tester they make they still have no idea what the signal is doing.A picture is worth a thousand words.Its that simple.

If they would make a tool like this with a scope on it I might be interested in one.As long as it was accurate.

The SPL crowd is very different then the DIY'ers.I couldnt deal with it anymore so I left.When guys are telling me their amps do 5000 watts with box rise and I try to explain whats wrong with their math,they get very defensive.
I use to write down the power output of amps I repaired on the receipt.I had to stop because most of the customers threw a fit and claimed I didnt repair the amp right or I just didnt know what I was doing.
Most of the guys that will use these SMD tools dont know what to look for on a scope or how to use them.Because if they did they would buy or already own a scope,signal generator,test disc and power resistors.SMD sells these tools to his group of followers and it gives them bragging rights.If you dont own one,you must not know what your doing kinda thing.So he sells the crap out of them.
Believe me,I know a few people who own at least one tool some have all 3.I have benched amps for people and they just dont understand when I show them on the scope that their 3000 watt Hifonics amp only does 1700 with no clipping.They defend the SMD DD1 to the end.I have even been told that I am old fashioned and use old fashion tools(my bench scope is a Philips PM3367A,signal generator is a Tenma 72-5016 and I use multiple banks of 300watt power resistors that came from the Orion plant in AZ when it closed and 330 amps of power supplies with a 850cca battery).
I tried to help a guy design a box for subs on BBP6 one time and later heard he went with the RE online calculator because he said my program was outdated and It wouldnt work with his SPL subs.

My point.If you tell them what they really need to make accurate measurements they want no part of it.But,if you give them a box with a light on it they will believe its better because SM uses it.

The one thing that really baffles me is why they didnt put a $50 LCD scope on the $3500 SMD AD-1.That is the only tool they make that is practical.It combines all the things needed to make accurate power measurements in one piece.Except a waveform monitor.WTF!

It seems to me they really dont want anyone to see the waveform because small pocket scopes can be had for $60 so the cost of adding one to their product in the design stage wouldnt add $20 to the final product.
Think about it.$399 for the base model or $419 for one with a built in scope.Even if it was $459 it would change everything.


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

ATOMICTECH62 said:


> The only thing I can see it does a scope cant is the power factor.Which I think is pretty useless.It has an inductance ammeter to 100 amps and my handheld scope has a shunt current meter to 10 amps.However,there is the option to use an inductance ammeter with any volt meter.The clamp isnt that expensive.
> 
> To me,all the gadgets they offer are useless.Its like they are making a product for people who dont understand anything about audio but ohms and power output.The SPL crowd.
> 
> ...


Bassheads are idiots for the most part

well, 95% of them.


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## Bama-Boy (Nov 17, 2013)

This product is for the same generation that rings up happy meals at McDonalds with little pictograms on a touch screen monitor.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

I agree with what atomic said above these products while they may help a noob to set up his amps, they wont learn anything while doing it , ok for the most part thats fine but for people really into audio maybe they rather spend money on handheld scopes. And one thing for sure like said above, those who follow smd these will give them HUGE bragging rights!! And makes them the pro on their forum because they have "pro tools"


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## Nodistortion (Sep 5, 2015)

I disagree with the above comments about a scope vs the DD-1 or the AD-1. Why does it matter "what the signal is doing". Unless you repair amplifiers for a living, the signal is either as it should be, or it is not. If it is not, that is distortion. That distortion is read by the DD-1 and AD-1.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I`d love to see this thing vs Scope shootout. To see how miserable it fails.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

if the cost analysis by AtomicTech is accurate and an LCD display scope could have been placed in the box for an extra 20 bucks, then it would probably make sense to add one to a 9 dollar DMM as well, since we all want to "see the wave" and those would sell like...

29 dollar pocket scopes? 


haha...


nah.


I look at the introduction of new tools in this hobby not, as what I could do better, but instead, how nice that something else, something more easy for the non-techno minded, the <110 IQ crowd to fixate on and pontificate at their leisure.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

I liked my DD-1. Great and very easy tool to use.


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

Victor_inox said:


> I`d love to see this thing vs Scope shootout. To see how miserable it fails.


TFade has done tests. It doesn't fail.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

gckless said:


> TFade has done tests. It doesn't fail.


Link me up please.


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

Victor_inox said:


> Link me up please.


I can't find the one I remember, but here's one with an oscope, AMM-1, and piezo tweeter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKZ5iCHYX3o


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Nodistortion is Tony D'Amore...the fellow who designed it. Helluva an engineer.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Measuring distortion without load as gckless linked is pointless.
perhaps useful for quicky gain setup but not useful to me. I`ll stick to oscilloscope, tone generator and resistive loads.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Why do you need a load? If the amp our inputs are going to clip they are going to clip no matter what.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> Why do you need a load? If the amp our inputs are going to clip they are going to clip no matter what.


You can't be serious

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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

what could be potentially bad, if an LCD scope was added to the unit?

too many questions about waves?

haha...


maybe learning how to read and adjust the display of an O-scope, is outside the scope?


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## Jesus Christ (Aug 3, 2010)

Amps will usually clip at a higher voltage with no load.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I understand desire for dumb down procedure,just don't feel the need

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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

There are a lot of people who think an O-scope is very intimidating (and expensive) to use. Tony is creating a product that simplifies these procedures for the average installer. They are not for everyone. If you want one product to do one thing it's a good investment. It's even better if you can borrow one because not many people use these things after the initial setup. With that said my personal opinion is that Tony is a master mind with a unique set of products on the market. I'm a little shocked at the price point of these since you need a whole set just to do everything nearly any O-scope will do. My advice, buy a used scope off CL and read the manual and watch as many videos to educate yourself how to use it.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Dead serious. You dont need a load to set gains.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Mr. D'Amore is the real deal, love or hate his products... they do what they advertise they do. Solid engineering. How many companies out there can claim that.??? He comes from a very stout history of Arizona based car audio.......and his products and company continues that history.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> Dead serious. You dont need a load to set gains.


I see you referring to dd 1.i w as talking about amm 1.
All I need to set gains is 5 bucks dmm.
You can use 150 bucks device though. 

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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

So you know the max clean output of every amp you touch? 

I have no experience with the AMM-1


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> So you know the max clean output of every amp you touch?
> 
> I have no experience with the AMM-1


I do to the thoudands of percent.how useful is that in comparison to 1% dd1 triggered at is irrelevant .probably not much but nonetheless. 

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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

hot9dog said:


> Mr. D'Amore is the real deal, love or hate his products... they do what they advertise they do. Solid engineering. How many companies out there can claim that.??? He comes from a very stout history of Arizona based car audio.......and his products and company continues that history.


I don't see hate expressed anywhere in this thread.i think that dumb down devises to simplify life of audio enthusiasts is worth getting looked at.
I

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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Why do you need a load? If the amp our inputs are going to clip they are going to clip no matter what.


LOL....


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

^ something funny?


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

DDfusion said:


> ^ something funny?


^ mm hmmm!


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

Victor_inox said:


> Measuring distortion without load as gckless linked is pointless.
> perhaps useful for quicky gain setup but not useful to me. I`ll stick to oscilloscope, tone generator and resistive loads.


He normally does do them loaded down, either with resistive dummy loads he has or an actual sub.

Regardless, loaded or unloaded shouldn't matter when simply comparing the AMM-1 to the oscope.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

gckless said:


> He normally does do them loaded down, either with resistive dummy loads he has or an actual sub.
> 
> Regardless, loaded or unloaded shouldn't matter when simply comparing the AMM-1 to the oscope.


Ifcurrent capability of an amplifier doesn`t matter then yes. 
If only every amplifier stayed linear loaded vs unloaded life would be boring.


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

Victor_inox said:


> Ifcurrent capability of an amplifier doesn`t matter then yes.
> If only every amplifier stayed linear loaded vs unloaded life would be boring.


I agree in terms of amp output. I'm just saying when simply comparing the two tools, whatever signal they are getting doesn't matter (provided it's the same signal), so loading should not matter.

He's got a bunch of other videos, I was looking for them but hunger took priority lol.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

gckless said:


> I agree in terms of amp output. I'm just saying when simply comparing the two tools, whatever signal they are getting doesn't matter (provided it's the same signal), so loading should not matter.
> 
> He's got a bunch of other videos, I was looking for them but hunger took priority lol.


Well, thank you for sharing I learned everything I could in this thread, bon apetite!


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

Am I wrong looking at this, or for some reason did they choose not to use a clamp, like every other meter ever made, for measuring current? So you have to take the wire you want to measure, off of the terminal/out of the amp, and run it through the center?


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## Nodistortion (Sep 5, 2015)

ryankenn said:


> Am I wrong looking at this, or for some reason did they choose not to use a clamp, like every other meter ever made, for measuring current? So you have to take the wire you want to measure, off of the terminal/out of the amp, and run it through the center?


That is correct, it is different than most current measuring devices on the market. For many reasons. 
1. Clamp type are Hall effect sensors. Or magnetic field sensors. Magnetic. Subwoofers. Enough said. 
2. The type mentioned above are designed to measure 50 and 60Hz AC current only. 
3. The type above are not "real time" enough to calculate power factor.

Our sensor, based on work from Dr. Tesla, doesn't have any of the above issues.


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

hot9dog said:


> Mr. D'Amore is the real deal, love or hate his products... they do what they advertise they do. Solid engineering. How many companies out there can claim that.???


ummm.......tens of thousands ?


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## Nodistortion (Sep 5, 2015)

Why is an AMM-1 being compared to an O-Scope?


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## Nodistortion (Sep 5, 2015)

squeak9798 said:


> ummm.......tens of thousands ?


Actually there are less than 10 mobile audio companies who design and manufacture their own product today.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Nodistortion said:


> Actually there are less than 10 mobile audio companies who design and manufacture their own product today.


Less then 10? Sure about that?

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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> Less then 10? Sure about that?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


You might as well not try to argue with a Steve Meade disciple. All they thank about is SPL. Like most bass heads, SQ is just to complicated for them. As long as they have a bass knob close by there happy!!


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

Nodistortion said:


> Why is an AMM-1 being compared to an O-Scope?


Simply the clipping function.



gumbeelee said:


> You might as well not try to argue with a Steve Meade disciple. All they thank about is SPL. Like most bass heads, SQ is just to complicated for them. As long as they have a bass knob close by there happy!!


More complicated than grammar?

If that is who it was said to be, you best bite your tongue.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

gumbeelee said:


> You might as well not try to argue with a Steve Meade disciple. All they thank about is SPL. Like most bass heads, SQ is just to complicated for them. As long as they have a bass knob close by there happy!!


I'm not arguing,I'm questioning his statement.of course he can say that only companies worth mentioning is smd and couple others he affiliated with.but I'll leave this to him to answer. 

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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

gckless said:


> Simply the clipping function.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why?


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## Nodistortion (Sep 5, 2015)

Victor_inox said:


> Less then 10? Sure about that?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


 I feel pretty confident about it. In house design engineering, pcb design, assembly and testing of finished product.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Even less perhaps if only engineers involved on payroll of said companies and not contracted.
manufacturing changed these days,I know for a fact that none of major audio companies making pcb in house due to cost. So is chassis, opamps,dsp, cd transports pcb soldered by subcontractors and assembled by automated lines,so in a sense you are correct about it. 



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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

To add to it I can say that none of the high tech products designed completely in house,it simply doesn't make sense financially. 



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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

Nodistortion said:


> Actually there are less than 10 mobile audio companies who design and manufacture their own product today.


His comment wasn't restricted to mobile audio companies, nor was mine. Your response was nothing other than a thinly veiled attempt at self promotion. 

Sales must not be meeting expectations if you revived a 1.5yr old thread.....


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

Nodistortion said:


> That is correct, it is different than most current measuring devices on the market. For many reasons.
> 1. Clamp type are Hall effect sensors. Or magnetic field sensors. Magnetic. Subwoofers. Enough said.
> 2. The type mentioned above are designed to measure 50 and 60Hz AC current only.
> 3. The type above are not "real time" enough to calculate power factor.
> ...


What?

1. 90% of decent meters are hall effect, which
2. Measure DC current just fine. 

I'm merely commenting on the downfall I see with having a captured (and I assume digital) current sensor when for amperage readings, having a micro second versus milli second delay would have little impact for me. The resolution isn't much better (I have a 5mA resolution ) and I'd have to constantly take things apart to get readings.


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> To add to it I can say that none of the high tech products designed completely in house,it simply doesn't make sense financially.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


I borrowed a design, but did the PCB design, population, testing and sales myself. I must be one in ten! :laugh:


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

:laugh:One has to be careful here,not your typical audience or brain dead bassheads.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Funny how you talk about bass heads. They are out enjoying giving demos all day while most of you are sitting there with a laptop trying to figure out how to tune your overly complicated setups.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Funny how you talk about bass heads. They are out enjoying giving demos all day while most of you are sitting there with a laptop trying to figure out how to tune your overly complicated setups.


Or clinging onto the nuts of the first company they came across for no reason what so ever. That's what I've noticed they do with 90 percent of their time 

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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Skizer it's the exact same here.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> Funny how you talk about bass heads. They are out enjoying giving demos all day while most of you are sitting there with a laptop trying to figure out how to tune your overly complicated setups.


Everyone enjoy life their favorite way.
I meet those people way too often not to observe general lack of brain activity.
Sorry if you associated yourself with BH,I did not. 
Yet here you are with us in front of your computer. 

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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Skizer it's the exact same here.


with some. not with all


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

I don't care what a person calls themselves. We are all audiophiles in our own right. 
Just because they do it different than you don't make them less.


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## Nodistortion (Sep 5, 2015)

Victor_inox said:


> To add to it I can say that none of the high tech products designed completely in house,it simply doesn't make sense financially.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


Audison does it all in house. So do we at D'Amore Engineering, as does TRU


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## Nodistortion (Sep 5, 2015)

ryankenn said:


> What?
> 
> 1. 90% of decent meters are hall effect, which
> 2. Measure DC current just fine.
> ...


The AMM-1 does not measure DC current. It measures AC current. From 20Hz - 1000Hz.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Nodistortion said:


> Audison does it all in house. So do we at D'Amore Engineering, as does TRU


Thank you but I`m not in the mood to discuss it further.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Funny how you talk about bass heads. They are out enjoying giving demos all day while most of you are sitting there with a laptop trying to figure out how to tune your overly complicated setups.


Anyone can throw a bunch of subs and amps in a ride and give demo's like bass heads do. We hear in the SQ world take pride in our system, and our systems are not over complicated except to a bass head!! I am not trying to say u r a bass head, but anyone can give and SPL demo, but it takes time to give a proper SQ demo.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

Nodistortion said:


> Audison does it all in house. So do we at D'Amore Engineering, as does TRU


If that is true about Audison, i respect the hell out of that company more than I already did.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

gumbeelee said:


> If that is true about Audison, i respect the hell out of that company more than I already did.


To bad they can't get their **** right lol

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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> To bad they can't get their **** right lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


This is true, maybe they should out source, lol!!


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Victor_inox said:


> Thank you but I`m not in the mood to discuss it further.


did you just give Tony the hand?:surprised:

when a respected car audio veteran engineer deems our humble abode worthy of a few comments back and forth, the least we can do is welcome him/them and probably not disrespect their opinion and/or facts with passive/aggressive body language, haha...


err..


ha?




:worried:


you gave Butler the business too, are you compensating for some perceived sleight, Victor?

Is your amp design not getting enough attention, remember front of the house is what makes the kitchen look good...


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

gumbeelee said:


> Anyone can throw a bunch of subs and amps in a ride and give demo's like bass heads do. We hear in the SQ world take pride in our system, and our systems are not over complicated except to a bass head!! I am not trying to say u r a bass head, but anyone can give and SPL demo, but it takes time to give a proper SQ demo.


You don't think bass heads take pride? 
I've been on both sides. Both sides are the exact same with a different end game. 
I will say I had a lot more fun being a bass head. 
It takes a lot more than just shoving subs and amps in. 

If it's done right. That goes for both sides. 
Hard part of giving SQ demos is holding the persons attention long enough so they can get the full effect. Most people don't care.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Nodistortion said:


> I disagree with the above comments about a scope vs the DD-1 or the AD-1. Why does it matter "what the signal is doing". Unless you repair amplifiers for a living, the signal is either as it should be, or it is not. If it is not, that is distortion. That distortion is read by the DD-1 and AD-1.


this makes sense to me.

if we're measuring power and our goal is clean output then a scope is only giving us a more graduated result, not a better one.

the scope most of us might use, is capable of detecting <1% THD on a visual representation of the wave, you see deformation at the top of the sine and you're already near 1% THD, so...

a light that goes off, instead of watching the sine distort, is pretty much the same thing since both happen at approximately 1% THD.

imho, of course.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

gumbeelee said:


> Anyone can throw a bunch of subs and amps in a ride and give demo's like bass heads do. We hear in the SQ world take pride in our system, and our systems are not over complicated except to a bass head!! I am not trying to say u r a bass head, but anyone can give and SPL demo, but it takes time to give a proper SQ demo.


 SPL system can be extremely complicated but in comparison to SQ it`s like ants vs humans on evolution scale.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SQ was way easier for me. And cheaper. Much cheaper.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

cajunner said:


> did you just give Tony the hand?:surprised:
> 
> when a respected car audio veteran engineer deems our humble abode worthy of a few comments back and forth, the least we can do is welcome him/them and probably not disrespect their opinion and/or facts with passive/aggressive body language, haha...
> 
> ...



Some choose to kneel to what they believe an authority in some field, others don`t give a damn but decided to walk away and ask questions, sometimes provocative.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> SQ was way easier for me. And cheaper. Much cheaper.


 why did you converted what is the purpose to get 190DB noise out of the speakers? Maybe I don`t understand desire.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Victor_inox said:


> Some choose to kneel to what they believe an authority in some field, others don`t give a damn but decided to walk away and ask questions, sometimes provocative.


If provocative gets his goat and keeps him here, so maybe I can learn something then that works too.

If it makes him feel unwelcome and his posting returns to nada, then I don't like it.

I've seen too many tentative engineer types that are renowned in their respective fields and businesses, become disillusioned right off due to the lack of sensitivity and temerity of some keyboard warrior who doesn't even understand how they screwed the pooch, it's a "biff" moment to me.

Let's put the welcome mat out and hope that some trickle-down comes from conversing with an industry veteran and a successful entrepreneur.


not to mention, an advocate for bettering the state of car audio, I mean just that should be enough, who else is developing products that bridge the gap between lab geek/ engineer level knob turning and scientific calculators, and the common man who eats his wheaties before going 9-5 at a brain-dead workspace?


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Victor_inox said:


> why did you converted what is the purpose to get 190DB noise out of the speakers? Maybe I don`t understand desire.


SPL is a tangible.

People gravitate towards a number, they have a clear goal and the ability to reach it, and through effort, improve upon that goal, is the defining part of why.

SQ is a journey, it's a lot of lateral moves. It's a never-ending debate over what amounts to percentages of reflected sound, and it is hardly satisfied by numbers or objectivity.

Perfection cannot be obtained, and the ability to vex ourselves, commits us to an institution where getting out, is not the goal. Getting deeper in, is, haha...


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

So we suppose to Pease something we don't really like because designer is known and respected by others?
I honestly researched what I could find about product in question online e and dismissed it for myself as not desired for myself.but I stated that it might be usefull for others.i don't see it as offensive or unwelcoming.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> why did you converted what is the purpose to get 190DB noise out of the speakers? Maybe I don`t understand desire.


Because it's fun? Seems a good enough reason to me.

I'm an autocrosser/road racer at heart, but there is something fun about ripping off a good 1/4 mile time on occasion. It's very similar. Road racers take a VERY long time developing a car, fixing and changing things, things the average person could never perceive, in hope of making a better and faster car that'll live for 20-60 minute sessions on the track. Drag racers put a lot of work and time into their cars too, but they don't care about a mid-corner push, just the numbers on a time slip and if it naturally wants to go straight. 

I respect both, they both contribute to the hobby.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

The piezo tweeter in the video posted earlier demonstrates how you can hear a sine wave clip by noticing when the hum turns into a buzz so I surely can't justify the expense for a visual indicator but someone else may find it useful..

Test tone CD with 100Hz, 1000Hz and 10kHz sine wave tracks is all I need to set the gains on any amplifier, to perfection..

Oops, I let the cat out of the bag


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Vic I converted because I have no desire to trash a new family car.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> Vic I converted because I have no desire to trash a new family car.


 you mean you can do SPL without panels dampening, insulation,etc?

Should I start with DD Or sundown?


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

You are as hopeless as Phil


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

lol im gunna go ahead and say sundown


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> You are as hopeless as Phil


Lighten up man, are you the one who preached that SPL guys just enjoy life?

believe it or not we do too.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

But I'm having reflextions at 347.467 hertz my right mid tweeter is not in phase and my ....


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

goosfraba


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

Nodistortion said:


> The AMM-1 does not measure DC current. It measures AC current. From 20Hz - 1000Hz.


So again, Hall Effect sensor meters with a convenient clamp, measure into the kilohertz range just fine on AC. 

I'm not trying to argue the meters usefulness in terms of a measurement tool, as some here are, but I paid a hefty chunk for my Fluke, and it seems to do basically what this does. I'm more interested in the specifics perhaps of why this may be better than a good meter. I can measure pretty much anything, and calculate the rest based on that, but some of what you are showing are just convenient to have displayed, although somewhat confusing.

Its been a LONG time since I was in school, but I vividly remember PF being a reference in a range from 0 to 1. But in your video I see it displayed as %, and see 28% power factor. How is that relating to the real PF scale? Is 100% the same as a PF of 1?, so 28% would be a PF of .28? I'm also curious what that tells you. I mean if your sub is giving you a PF of 28%, and you wanted to achieve a PF of 50% for some reason, is there any way to know how a different or additional subs in an alternative configuration are going to achieve that?

Really, for $399, I'd actually love to see a comparison to a good standard meter (Fluke 177 or 3000 FC perhaps) to see some of the improvements or advantages in measurement accuracy.


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## Nodistortion (Sep 5, 2015)

ryankenn said:


> So again, Hall Effect sensor meters with a convenient clamp, measure into the kilohertz range just fine on AC.
> 
> I'm not trying to argue the meters usefulness in terms of a measurement tool, as some here are, but I paid a hefty chunk for my Fluke, and it seems to do basically what this does. I'm more interested in the specifics perhaps of why this may be better than a good meter. I can measure pretty much anything, and calculate the rest based on that, but some of what you are showing are just convenient to have displayed, although somewhat confusing.
> 
> ...


The main difference between the AMM-1 and a fluke would be for measuring power. To measure power with a fluke, you would need a specialized piece that can measure voltage and current at the same time and calculate the phase relationship between the two to calculate power factor. Fluke makes several models that do this, they are over $1k. 

We choose to display power factor as a percentage instead of a decimal number between 0 and 1 for ease of understanding the topic for audio people. 

Tony


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## Nodistortion (Sep 5, 2015)

ryankenn said:


> So again, Hall Effect sensor meters with a convenient clamp, measure into the kilohertz range just fine on AC.
> 
> I'm not trying to argue the meters usefulness in terms of a measurement tool, as some here are, but I paid a hefty chunk for my Fluke, and it seems to do basically what this does. I'm more interested in the specifics perhaps of why this may be better than a good meter. I can measure pretty much anything, and calculate the rest based on that, but some of what you are showing are just convenient to have displayed, although somewhat confusing.
> 
> ...


On the hall effect sensor, like I said in a previous post, they are effected by external magnetic fields. Not a big deal if you are measuring wall current going to a toaster oven. It is a factor when measuring near subwoofers.


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

Good info.

I don't know what testing you've done, but I stuck my $21 CL3100 Klein on with and without a pair of rare earth magnets from an old hard drive and got zero change with the pair about 4" away, I can't imagine my good meter will a Hall Effect (Klein is current transformer) would be effected. But we are going on about nothing at this point.

I'm still curious if you guys have done testing with PF to get the most out of an amp/load combo, and seen repeatable results. I'm sure if people with a mono amp and RF subs saw that they could go from a PF of .2 to a PF of .4 by changing to JL subs, and knew what that meant it would be great. Saying that, if the manufacturer specs were consistent, you should be able to predict that so you didn't have to just raw test a bunch, but it sounds interesting.

As far as Fluke, mine can't do PF, but you can get them for way less that $1K if you really want to, the 43 is consistently for sale on Ebay for $50 or so more than the AMM-1. The only advantage I see for myself is the work I do around my property, and for work I trust the Fluke to measure line voltages, and three phase power etc, so I can use it for both. I don't know if I'd want to use the AMM outside of the car audio world.


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

DDfusion said:


> Funny how you talk about bass heads. They are out enjoying giving demos all day while most of you are sitting there with a laptop trying to figure out how to tune your overly complicated setups.


you sound hella mad homie

I will agree with you about the "overly complicated" installs in the sense that some guys seem to spend more time pontificating potential results than just getting out there and getting it done and going from there.

That said I'd never waste money on any of these meters. I've done many installs from Wal-Mart junk to fully active 6-way front stages and I've barely ever had to use a multimeter.

I make it sound so simple and amateur but all you really need is a good ear and a lot of paceince. The only thing you really need a meter for is gain matching. 

I've never needed a dmm to set gains, never felt the need to analize the sine while doing so, never thought I needed to know the amperage draw while doing so, etc etc

A lot of this stuff is bragging rights and dick measuring. If you can't figure out how to set up a system without a couple of 300 dollar meters you need to find a new hobby because you're missing out on the basics.


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

DDfusion said:


> You don't think bass heads take pride?
> I've been on both sides. Both sides are the exact same with a different end game.
> I will say I had a lot more fun being a bass head.
> It takes a lot more than just shoving subs and amps in.
> ...


That's the problem, most people don't care.

If it's not a Tahoe with twenty 15s no one gives a ****. But please don't say it's the same level of intricacy, its not.

I spent 10 hours yesterday applying felt strips to every price of plastic and metal that makes contacts with other plastic and metal... A guy who just wants to make girls wet their panties with a wall of subs would not understand why I spent a whole day to do essentially nothing in the short term.


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## peenemunde (Aug 31, 2013)

Picture this:

Car Audio Enthusiasts = Sports Enthusiasts

Now get an average Joe american in the same room as a British fella... They will fight that their "football" is better until they're blue in the face. While in reality they're trying to compare apples to oranges. No matter how hard either tries, you're preaching to the wrong choir. Words fall on dead ears. Although, one thing they both have in common is an appreciation for ATHLETES 

Athletes = Music

Whether you like your music loud and proud, or accurate and detailed it's all the same. Your opinion doesn't hold more water than anyone else. I can appreciate both, however I don't like my ears to bleed so I go the SQ route. I've helped build SPL cars quite a few times since my local area is mostly "bassheads." And chasing a number can be fun, especially if you know the path to get it. But looking down on a basshead for not understanding your preference is ignorant.. Some people spend $100,000 on fishtanks, or collect precious gems, OR FUND EXPEDITIONS TO FIND THE LOST CITY OF ATLANTIS! 

Different strokes for different folks. I can appreciate all hobbies (well, most anyway  )


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## peenemunde (Aug 31, 2013)

Oh yeah! in my rant I forgot about the topic all together 

I'm currently in the market for an O-scope, to no avail. However, I would absolutely give the AMM-1 a shot. For the money, I would prefer a good O-scope but if all else fails I have a product to fall back on.

I've actually wanted a CC-1 for a long time now, but financially it never seems to fit the cards I'm dealt. Next time I have $150 to blow, I'm going to pick one up


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## wiryalie (May 11, 2015)

good information


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

OldSchoolAddict said:


> That's the problem, most people don't care.
> 
> If it's not a Tahoe with twenty 15s no one gives a ****. But please don't say it's the same level of intricacy, its not.
> 
> I spent 10 hours yesterday applying felt strips to every price of plastic and metal that makes contacts with other plastic and metal... A guy who just wants to make girls wet their panties with a wall of subs would not understand why I spent a whole day to do essentially nothing in the short term.


I spent more man hours in my bass head car than my SQ car. Try making a 150 db ground pounder not rattle inside. Way harder than making a good quality, quiet sedan not rattle.


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

peenemunde said:


> Oh yeah! in my rant I forgot about the topic all together
> 
> I'm currently in the market for an O-scope, to no avail. However, I would absolutely give the AMM-1 a shot. For the money, I would prefer a good O-scope but if all else fails I have a product to fall back on.
> 
> I've actually wanted a CC-1 for a long time now, but financially it never seems to fit the cards I'm dealt. Next time I have $150 to blow, I'm going to pick one up


Why in the hell would you want to pay $150 for a CC1 when you can LITERALLY do exactly the same thing with test tones, a $5 DMM and some elementary school math ?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> I spent more man hours in my bass head car than my SQ car. Try making a 150 db ground pounder not rattle inside. Way harder than making a good quality, quiet sedan not rattle.


or you could have just not put much time into your SQ car. who knows. and unless you have ever panel removed and every surface covered in deadener, i highly highly highly doubt that theres not a single rattle in any 150db car.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

There is rattles,you simply can't hear them over music over that volume.
Isn't that sole purpose of spl is rattle? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Oh you could hear them. It was a battle every few days. 
If you think that's the sole purpose you are dead wrong. 
Like I said before, if its done right. Problem is its a much larger segment so the not done right ratio is much higher

Don't be a audiosnob.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> or you could have just not put much time into your SQ car. who knows. and unless you have ever panel removed and every surface covered in deadener, i highly highly highly doubt that theres not a single rattle in any 150db car.


I didn't have to put that much time in the SQ car. I bought it for this purpose, I drove every car in the price range and picked the one that didn't need much help. 

I had every panel covered in CCF and deadener where it needed to be. The bumper was trying to tear off but you could not hear it inside.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> I didn't have to put that much time in the SQ car. I bought it for this purpose, I drove every car in the price range and picked the one that didn't need much help.
> 
> I had every panel covered in CCF and deadener where it needed to be. The bumper was trying to tear off but you could not hear it inside.


maybe you should be worrying about your driving skills or eyesight then lol


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Maybe you should get a clue. You don't want to go down this road again.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Maybe you should get a clue. You don't want to go down this road again.


lol cant take some sarcasm can you?


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I never heard SPL system not rattling something.
If it`s not rattling bolts out of transmission bell it`s not SPL system. 
There is right frequency for anything to rattle, find it and you can destroy anything.
New meaning until wheels fall off.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> lol cant take some sarcasm can you?


from you? Not yet


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> from you? Not yet


well your on the internet. better learn to fast


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Victor_inox said:


> I never heard SPL system not rattling something.
> If it`s not rattling bolts out of transmission bell it`s not SPL system.
> There is right frequency for anything to rattle, find it and you can destroy anything.
> New meaning until wheels fall off.


SPL systems are burp setups, one note wonders.
Demo builds are made to play music at high levels. At least get your terminology right before you try to put down others hard work. 
Great thing about this hobby, there is more than one way to enjoy it


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> well your on the internet. better learn to fast


Remember AOL dial up you use to get free months cards for?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Remember AOL dial up you use to get free months cards for?


sure do. the same one my mom would kick me off of to use the phone. im young, but its not like im 14 years old


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Those chat rooms where a blast.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Those chat rooms where a blast.


i remember them being strange. some guy wanted to meet me at the park


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> SPL systems are burp setups, one note wonders.
> Demo builds are made to play music at high levels. At least get your terminology right before you try to put down others hard work.
> Great thing about this hobby, there is more than one way to enjoy it


I don`t give a **** about SPL system and I never will, Mostly due to people who promote it. I don`t know about your neighborhood by in mine it`s 99% retarded teenagers. 

Not every hard work should be appreciated.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> sure do. the same one my mom would kick me off of to use the phone. im young, but its not like im 14 years old


what was the speed of your modem?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> what was the speed of your modem?


pretty much nothing lol. took about 10-15 minutes just to connect to aol


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)




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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Server side of dial up connections were work of art sometimes. 
I think I still have USRobotics56K modem stashed somewhere just in case.


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> or you could have just not put much time into your SQ car. who knows. and unless you have ever panel removed and every surface covered in deadener, i highly highly highly doubt that theres not a single rattle in any 150db car.


At 150db there is no stopping rattles, as Victor said you just can't hear it.

There is no stopping the rattling unless you start getting reckless with expanding foam and concrete.

DD is being silly, and if he really did spend 150 hours trying to deaden a competition car I can only hope at least he feels it was worth it.


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> There is rattles,you simply can't hear them over music over that volume.
> Isn't that sole purpose of spl is rattle?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


exactly! 

When I was playing around with my old "spl" build the whole point was to watch the car tear itself apart. I wanted it to flex and I wanted it to flex enough that other people noticed it flexing.

You can't stop that kind of power, and why would you want to?


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Some of us know flex is lost output

just because you have never done it don't mean its impossible 
It don't take that much time to clean up a small hatch back. Nothing was touching anything without a layer of foam in between. 

It was very worth it every time I demoed for people that think like most of you. That look was so priceless. That how did you do that face.


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Of course flex is lost output but watching the top of a windshield flex 2 inches peak to peak is too entertaining for me to want to install a stripper pole.

You talk like spl is hard to figure out. 

Its easy like Sunday morning


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Making a pair of 12s get that much output and still draw a nice curve was not easy at all. Car was 1db flat 27-60hz. 

To me SQ was easy. Maybe because I knew more starting out this time, whatever the case it was easy.


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

The most entertaining part of building a heavy hitting car is the reaction of people with potentialy better equipment being **** down by a large magnitude

For example, my old Saturn would flex the windshield 2 inches with only two low end 12s in a prefab box on 1200 watts, meanwhile a friend of mine with three Solobaric 12s on an MRV1000 can't understand why I'm literally twice as loud.

SPL is incredibly simple once you understand the basics that most people don't know or care to know.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Making a pair of 12s get that much output and still draw a nice curve was not easy at all. Car was 1db flat 27-60hz.
> 
> To me SQ was easy. Maybe because I knew more starting out this time, whatever the case it was easy.


sq was easy to you because you used auto tune..


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> sq was easy to you because you used auto tune..


That may be a big factor. I did have to learn what it wanted and back in the day I don't think I could have without breaking something


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

OldSchoolAddict said:


> The most entertaining part of building a heavy hitting car is the reaction of people with potentialy better equipment being **** down by a large magnitude
> 
> For example, my old Saturn would flex the windshield 2 inches with only two low end 12s in a prefab box on 1200 watts, meanwhile a friend of mine with three Solobaric 12s on an MRV1000 can't understand why I'm literally twice as loud.
> 
> SPL is incredibly simple once you understand the basics that most people don't know or care to know.


I had a scion tc. the roof is real strong so the windshield didn't move much. It would make a wave with the big sunroof.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

unsubscribed.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

DDfusion said:


> Making a pair of 12s get that much output and still draw a nice curve was not easy at all. Car was 1db flat 27-60hz.
> 
> To me SQ was easy. Maybe because I knew more starting out this time, whatever the case it was easy.



I think what draws so much ire from the rest is that you're a "one upper". The guy in the group that can always do it better and always is the exception to the rule. You can't let anybody top you.

It's ridiculous.












EDIT: auto correct typo :/


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Ouch


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Sound Pressure Level cannot survive in a Sound Quality atmosphere, the molecules get all jumbled up and eventually collapse from non-uniform structural excitation modes...


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

I'm not a one upper. Just know what I wanted and I was going to get it no matter what it took

What's better than showing somebody something they didn't think was possible. That's better than just talking about it


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

cajunner said:


> Sound Pressure Level cannot survive in a Sound Quality atmosphere, the molecules get all jumbled up and eventually collapse from non-uniform structural excitation modes...


You are correct at a point. With the right equipment that point can be pretty high.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Oooorrrr.... we could feed the rats to the cats, and the cats to the rats- and get the cat skins for nothing! !!! 
Sorry, I've been smoking


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

I don't want to start another this vs that argument but 

As impressive as SPL cars are, it's a whole different experience and amazement.

Meaning, it might be incredible to slam 150db at 35Hz with two 8 inch subs, and it may seem impossible to most newbs, but it's nothing compared to a 2-way car with no rear fill being nothing short of surround sound.

Sitting in a car that only has two tweeters and two woofers up front and hearing sounds coming from behind you is truly incomprehensible 

Being in a car with dead center imaging and being able to close your eyes and point to the different instruments in sn orchestra is something really impressive

SPL is a big math equation, SQ is wizardry

And I mean real SQ, not just a loud and clean system. I'm talking making a 2-way system sound like a THX movie theater.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

It's not wizardry. It's knowing how to setup a DSP which can be done with a RTA and tape measure. 
I think this thread is already derailed.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

OldSchoolAddict said:


> I don't want to start another this vs that argument but
> 
> As impressive as SPL cars are, it's a whole different experience and amazement.
> 
> ...


actually thats easy (and unwanted).. just dont deaden the rear of the car and you will hear plenty of **** from back there :laugh:

but really, you should have anything sound like its coming from behind you since music doesnt have front and rear info, just left and right


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> actually thats easy (and unwanted).. just dont deaden the rear of the car and you will hear plenty of **** from back there :laugh:
> 
> but really, you should have anything sound like its coming from behind you since music doesnt have front and rear info, just left and right


Logic can simulate surround sound. Source material dependent. 
Like listening to that 3D barber shop. You hear them walking behind you


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## OldSchoolAddict (Sep 23, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> actually thats easy (and unwanted).. just dont deaden the rear of the car and you will hear plenty of **** from back there :laugh:
> 
> but really, you should have anything sound like its coming from behind you since music doesnt have front and rear info, just left and right


I like to play movies in the car


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

amm-1.


back on topic.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I started out as a basshead just like most of us on here and now don't like loud bass anymore. I've never used a scope, dmm, or anything else to set gains. I hate autotune. I run way more power to my fronts than I do my sub. SQ is a constant quest for a goal that's just out of reach. I don't like to advertise the fact that I have a system so SPL isn't a good idea for the paranoid living and working in one of the most dangerous cities in the country. The fewer locals that know what my plain looking truck has in it the better. I can make most people's eyes glaze over in 10 seconds or less of talking sq technobabble. I trust my ears with tuning and don't care what the numbers "should" be. You can't argue with what works. 

Ok, do I sound jaded and senile yet?


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## alex912005 (Jan 8, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> All I need to set gains is 5 bucks dmm.
> You can use 150 bucks device though.












Just thought I'd bring this to the discussion...


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

alex912005 said:


> Just thought I'd bring this to the discussion...


lolol. dudes a ****ing joke


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

alex912005 said:


> Just thought I'd bring this to the discussion...


 OMG that is funny **** right here, Praise the lord of sound waves Steve Meade! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> lolol. dudes a ****ing joke


He is a salesman.  It`s amazing what marketing can do to right crowd.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> He is a salesman. It`s amazing what marketing can do to right crowd.


right crowd being spl people, and you and i both know how silly they can be lol


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

alex912005 said:


> Just thought I'd bring this to the discussion...


Sharing private conversation with SM? 
I`d ask for his consent first, it`s unethical short of coward.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Man the hate is strong in here

For one thing the AMM-1 is not a gain setting tool its a power clamp
The DD-1 for gain setting can do what a DMM can not. 
At least know your tools before you spew off BS


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Talking bad about the SPL crowd when you don't even use the term right
People in SQ are just as gullible and foolish


----------



## alex912005 (Jan 8, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> Sharing private conversation with SM?
> I`d ask for his consent first, it`s unethical short of coward.


It's not private, just posts on IG. You actually made me feel bad for a moment.

But he is sort of right though... kinda

Don't get me wrong, I'm honored that he tagged me, I was giving advice to a guy about setting his home amp with a dmm.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> Man the hate is strong in here
> 
> For one thing the AMM-1 is not a gain setting tool its a power clamp
> The DD-1 for gain setting can do what a DMM can not.
> At least know your tools before you spew off BS


The thing is it`s not my tool nor anyone with basic knowledge of physics or desire to learn.
If you don't want to learn then by no means use dumbed down tools.
What troubling is that more people prefer dumb down approach to problem solving.


----------



## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

So Vic you don't even know what you are hating on? 
Dumb down is very easy and fast.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

alex912005 said:


> It's not private, just posts on IG. You actually made me feel bad for a moment.
> 
> But he is sort of right though... kinda


 It`s cool then. good laugh....


----------



## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

SkizeR said:


> lolol. dudes a ****ing joke


I've never had a debate/discussion with Meade online on the forums where he displayed a proper understanding of acoustics.

I've never had him successfully defend his line of products and their uses.

He was an average installer.

How he got so popular is beyond me. He is one HELL of a salesman. Being able to sell himself and turn his name into a brand based on basically accomplishing nothing is his most amazing feat.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

You guys do know its just his name on it right? Its all Tony's stuff which its proven he is a pretty smart guy


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> You guys do know its just his name on it right? Its all Tony's stuff which its proven he is a pretty smart guy


yeah, because they both know people will buy it just for his name


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> So Vic you don't even know what you are hating on?
> Dumb down is very easy and fast.


Ohhh I know, I can read . I don`t hate it, I hate what modern generation of so called engineers bringing to the table. Substitutes for real innovations, plagiarism and desire to make a buck in any possible way.
HIstory of civilization pointed to simplifying human`s life to the point o degradation of basic human desire to better himself.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

You would do it also. People in this hobby know who Steve is, Do they know who Tony is?


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Victor_inox said:


> Ohhh I know, I can read . I don`t hate it, I hate what modern generation of so called engineers bringing to the table. Substitutes for real innovations, plagiarism and desire to make a buck in any possible way.
> HIstory of civilization pointed to simplifying human`s life to the point o degradation of basic human desire to better himself.


The DD-1 was a great tool
this AMM-1 is a great tool. Its a one piece power clamp. 

The only thing I don't like is the dyno saying dynamic is like playing music. Its not at all.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> You would do it also. People in this hobby know who Steve is, Do they know who Tony is?


yeah but i would charge hundreds for things you can do from an oscope that costs the same price as one of the tools


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> yeah but i would charge hundreds for things you can do from an oscope that costs the same price as one of the tools


Does everyone need a scope? I sure didnt


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> yeah but i would charge hundreds for things you can do from an oscope that costs the same price as one of the tools


 See, one month ago you`ve had no clue how to use Scope, now you learned setting up you test. Kudos to Nick!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> Does everyone need a scope? I sure didnt


but why not just get one if your going to be paying 200+ dollars? lol people like you are why dumbasses like steve are in business. thanks for that


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> See, one month ago you`ve had no clue how to use Scope, now you learned setting up you test. Kudos to Nick!


its not that i didnt know, im sure i can figure them out no problem. i just never had a need for one. im actually looking into buying one so i can learn more about amps, or should i just spend like 1500 dollars on all of mr meades tools? lol


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> Does everyone need a scope? I sure didnt


 That`s the problem right here, instead of paying once for tool you could use for many different things you settle on specialized one and not even best for the job. 
would you go look for a nutcracker if you want some walnuts or you`d grab hammer and satisfy your craving? It gets job done...


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

It's not $200+. 
Once again talking crap on what you don't know. 
If you ever used one you would see it's worth. Not complicated, super fast, very easy. It made this more accessible to the everyday user.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> its not that i didnt know, im sure i can figure them out no problem. i just never had a need for one. im actually looking into buying one so i can learn more about amps, or should i just spend like 1500 dollars on all of mr meades tools? lol


 You can get really good scope for half that money.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

dd-1 is 150. you can get a small oscope for about half of that. if you bought all of his various meters, your spending over 1500 dollars!!!! you can get a professional scope for less than a third of that ya kook! the **** is wrong with some people?


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Best device sold under SM brand is by far IM-SG, It`s amazing it has not been mentioned here. http://www.amazon.com/Impedance-Meter-Signal-Generator-IM-SG/dp/B00AB2GNKI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441907806&sr=8-1&keywords=SMD+impedance

measuring DC resistance is one thing , measuring frequency dependant impedance is completely different story.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> dd-1 is 150. you can get a small oscope for about half of that. if you bought all of his various meters, your spending over 1500 dollars!!!! you can get a professional scope for less than a third of that ya kook! the **** is wrong with some people?


I second this motion WTF is wrong with people?


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Victor_inox said:


> I second this motion WTF is wrong with people?


It's the human condition, not break away from the norm or to extend themselves outside of their comfort range. It feels good to stay in one spot... harm or humility leaves an impression on us at an early age... so then it becomes a secondary instinct to protect your knowledge range, learning slows and complacency becomes the warm blanket you cling to at night. The simplification of things around us then begins to make "sense ".
It takes humility and patience to overcome this.... and these 2 things are becoming rare today.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

hot9dog said:


> It's the human condition, not break away from the norm or to extend themselves outside of their comfort range. It feels good to stay in one spot... harm or humility leaves an impression on us at an early age... so then it becomes a secondary instinct to protect your knowledge range, learning slows and complacency becomes the warm blanket you cling to at night. The simplification of things around us then begins to make "sense ".
> It takes humility and patience to overcome this.... and these 2 things are becoming rare today.


As the 21st century began, human evolution was at a turning point. Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest, the fastest, reproduced in greater numbers than the rest, a process which had once favored the noblest traits of man, now began to favor different traits. Most science fiction of the day predicted a future that was more civilized and more intelligent. But as time went on, things seemed to be heading in the opposite direction. A dumbing down. How did this happen? Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence. With no natural predators to thin the herd, it began to simply reward those who reproduced the most, and left the intelligent to become an endangered species.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

"And there was a time in this country, a long time ago, when reading wasn't just for **** and neither was writing. People wrote books and movies, movies that had stories so you cared whose ass it was and why it was farting, and I believe that time can come again!"
And my favorite:
"The years passed, mankind became stupider at a frightening rate. Some had high hopes the genetic engineering would correct this trend in evolution, but sadly the greatest minds and resources where focused on conquering hair loss and prolonging erections."


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

DDfusion said:


> You guys do know its just his name on it right? Its all Tony's stuff which its proven he is a pretty smart guy


He might be a smart guy. He also has never successfully demonstrated the usefulness of his products, much less their cost/benefit considering they are not cheap. we've gone rounds on another forum with both him and Meade.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Victor_inox said:


> That`s the problem right here, instead of paying once for tool you could use for many different things you settle on specialized one and not even best for the job.
> would you go look for a nutcracker if you want some walnuts or you`d grab hammer and satisfy your craving? It gets job done...


I just use my hands to crack walnuts when the proper tool isn't available. MUCH more controlled crack than a hammer could ever be. I prefer my nuts to be as intact as possibleYes I'm being serious.


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