# 2016 Ford Explorer Sport Build Log



## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

I've owned my Exp Sport for around 4 weeks now and have been heavily researching the Premium Sony Audio System for a buildout. I thought I'd create this thread to help others as this build will occur over the next couple months. I've had a mess of a time tracking down info on this vehicle. Oh, it's there to be found but it's all over the interwebs. 

Kind of interesting in the mean time.. I certainly want a 7.1 Pro-Logic Center Channel Upmixed system (this vehicle is built for it frankly) and thus there are only 2 DSP's on the planet for Car Audio that can do that. The Alpine H800 and the JBL MS8 (now discontinued but plenty on Ebay). (there is rumor that Audio Frog is going to release something along the DSP line this year also) I'm going with the MS8 I think though. Anyway, the center channel becomes important in a system like that and I want a little more than a mincy anemic 3 1/2" speaker. I was able to confirm tonight that I can get a 5 1/4" speaker in there without too much trouble. Looking forward to the extra center audio strength. Kudos to Ford for providing the space. It should reside quite comfortably under the stock grill. 

The system I'm looking to do will be as follows (subject to change):

Front Door
Tweeter - SEAS Prestige 27TFFNC 
Woofer - 8" Driver Silver Flute W20RC38-04https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-8-woofers/silver-flute-w20rc38-04-ohm-8-wool-cone/ (Stock Size is a 6x9, I like an 8" Mid Bass so some modification is required)[/SIZE]

Center Channel
Eclipse 5 1/4" Point Source

Rear Door
6 1/2 Coaxial (TBD)
or 6 1/2" Separates

Rear Speakers
3 1/2" (TBD)

Subwoofer
JL Audio Stealthbox 10"

Sound Deadening
Noico 80 Mil (Amazon)

Amplifers
2 Soundstream Tarantula 4.900 150x4 Class D Amplifiers
1 JL Audio JX500/1D for the Sub. It's just finding a place to put them that's the tough part. Not a lot of places to hide amps in this vehicle

DSP
JBL MS8
PAC AP4-FD21 (Essential to connect to the CAN Bus, maintain Steering Wheel Controls and bypass the factory amp with line level signal that has been un-eq'd.

Helpful links to me at this point:

Ford Audio Related

2016 Ford Explorer Premium and Sony Wiring Diagrams !!!!Grab This!!!!!
Unprocessed Variable Line Out (for Sony Amp Delete)
2016 Platinum F150 Sony Speaker Upgrade
2016 Sport Audio Upgrade (thanks for your work, very helpful)
2015 Ford F150 Audio Upgrade
**2014 Ford F150 w/ Sony System (very helpful thread on OEM / Factory Amp integration)**
2012 Limited Upgrades (Long thread full of a lot of great info - great work folks!)
Best Custom Stealth Sub Build I've seen for Explorer (Nice work)
The complete lack of good subwoofer options for this vehicle.. (I ain't losin' muh Spare Tire)
See the PAC AP4-FD21 above in the DSP Section as it's essential for clean amplification in this vehicle
Explorer How To

Door Panel Removal Guide
JL Audio Stealthbox Install in Explorer
Subwoofer Removal Guide
Passenger Side Firewall Grommet Access (and Airbag Removal amongst other things..) 
Environment Modification

Active Noise Canceling Disable (Fake Engine Noise Disable - this method linked is the hard way. The easy way is to use Forscan and disable it. See the Forscan Spreadsheet Below, ACM 727-01-01)
Forscan Software Guide
2015-2016 Ford F150 Forscan Spreadsheet (this thing is freaking legendary...) (Fake Engine Noise Disable on ACM Tab Line 107)
For AsBuilt Data for your vehicle (You really should save this somewhere)
Aux Input (Line In) Cable (I ordered the $55 kit and used Forscan to modify 7D0-02-02 in the APIM - Jason was great to work with and also offers Sync3 Upgrades amongst other things. His site primarily caters to Police Interceptor vehicles so some differences between your vehicle and those will occur)
Forscan ODB2/CAN Bus Reader Amazon $29 (this is the one I have)
General Audio Related

Room Eq Wizard (REW) Tuning Primer
Are Center Channels Relevant, here, in the future?
Wiring Diagrams (up to 2015 - still excellent)

_I wanted to post this log over on the Explorer Forum but they charge to allow you to post photos (which I think is quite goofy.. pay money to create posts helpful to other Explorer owners). This will be the log for the build as I'll likely abandon the Explorer Forum thread of the same nature for the reasons noted._ (Original Thread For Reference)


- Lexingtonian


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Fitting an 8" Silver Flute in an Ford Explorer Door.

I'm lazy so I modified a Metra 82-5603 6x9 to 6.5" speaker adapter to fit an 8. I've always loved how easy ABS Plastic is to work with.. First photo is showing the 8" cutout vs the original adapter. Next I heat up the top and bottom until the ABS is pliable and fit the Silver Flute within so that it stretches the plastic to fit itself. There are 2 photos of the top and bottom of the adapter stretched to it. Finally the Silver Flute mounted in the adapter. The Metra adapter is slightly taller than the stock 6x9 so naturally the 8 mounted on top of the Metra Kit makes it a tight fit. I cut down the lip around the 6x9 grille cutout on the door panel and shaved it down flush then did a little sanding toward the top (not pictured). The Silver Flute is closest to the door panel at the very top of the driver. After some adjusting it's it a tight fit but the door panel is just beyond the driver's 5mm xmax. An 8 with a larger xmax may have trouble with this setup and would need custom panels. I got lucky..

Finally the tweeter. Obviously from the picture I have a physics problem. So I went to work with a dremel and cutout the original mount.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Yeah, I'm a surgeon with a dremel and a cutting wheel.. The rest of the factory tweeter mount came off flush, nice and tidy. Tweeter mocked up nice so I laid down a bit of 1/8' foam as the surface for the tweeter to sit upon (and to keep vibrations down). Used some plumbing strap (one of my favorite tools) and the factory trim nuts to hold the tweeter in place. I mounted a 22uF Cap inline to provide a little love. I plan on crossing at around 2K with my JBL MS8. But wanted a little insurance. 

Oh yeah.. I also pulled the plastic rivets from the door so I could easily mock up the 8" Silver Flute without having to pop them on and off. They're brittle and tight as heck, thus I wanted to save the door panel mounts the stress as well. Took several attempts to get the Flute positioned right in the door.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

I was really impressed at the matching response from the Seas Tweeters. Not a real snazzy chart but they are nearly perfectly matched.

The Eclipse 8591 Point Source vs the Seas, not so much of a contest. Seas is the clear the winner here. The Seas with the 22uF Cap and the Eclipse through the Eclipse xover. Interestingly enough the Eclipse has 2 nasty notches. The one pictured and one at 13.28khz. The Eclipse cover deal with that higher notch but not the lower one at 4.6khz. 

It'll be a Center Channel and quite a nice one at that. Not too worried about the notch and am assuming the MS8 will compensate some. 

That's about it for tonight I think..


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

I couldn't find this info anywhere so I made a video on how to bring power cable through the firewall in a 2016 Ford Explorer Sport..

https://youtu.be/dQ1UY_f5yAU


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## glockcoma (Dec 22, 2015)

Thx for post your findings/progress. 
I have a 2010 SHO with a ms-8 and it integrates very well. 
Lots of guys over on ecoboost performance forum would be interested for this info. 
Would you mind if I linked them to this?


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

glockcoma said:


> Thx for post your findings/progress.
> I have a 2010 SHO with a ms-8 and it integrates very well.
> Lots of guys over on ecoboost performance forum would be interested for this info.
> Would you mind if I linked them to this?


Not a problem at all! If they let a person post photos, perhaps that's a better home for me for all things Ford. I kinda have a fundamental issue with a forum that limits its own progress, especially for those willing to provide high value content..


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

I have 2013 Ford crew cab eco boost with Sony system 8 touchscreen and keep hearing about this fake engine noise what are they plumbing noise in?


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

optimaprime said:


> I have 2013 Ford crew cab eco boost with Sony system 8 touchscreen and keep hearing about this fake engine noise what are they plumbing noise in?


There is a microphone somewhere on the engine/exhaust that is fed into the Stereo where the sound of the engine is enhanced and delivers through your speakers. The engine sounds great with it turned off, I did not like the throaty V8 sound coming through the speakers. The cabin is a little quieter at highway speed (to me anyway) with it off.


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## PorkCereal (Nov 24, 2009)

Sound symposer, many remove them.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

subscribed to follow along



Lexingtonian said:


> I was really impressed at the matching response from the Seas Tweeters. Not a real snazzy chart but they are nearly perfectly matched...


Please clarify .... is this your measurements or a composite of plots from another source? If your measurements, what was the basic setup (mic/environment/software)?

Thanks in advance


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

FordEscape said:


> subscribed to follow along
> 
> Please clarify .... is this your measurements or a composite of plots from another source? If your measurements, what was the basic setup (mic/environment/software)?
> 
> Thanks in advance


I tested these tweeters with REW on a MacBook Pro running a Calibrated UMIK-1from Cross Spectrum and the 0 degree measurement file at roughly 58 DB (for this measurement session). These are all _my_ measurements 

Better images attached for clarity.


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

I'm interested in your progress. I have the ForScan, but am having trouble finding out how to do the line-level out for the non-Sony system in my '15 Explorer XLT.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Lexingtonian said:


> There is a microphone somewhere on the engine/exhaust that is fed into the Stereo where the sound of the engine is enhanced and delivers through your speakers. The engine sounds great with it turned off, I did not like the throaty V8 sound coming through the speakers. The cabin is a little quieter at highway speed (to me anyway) with it off.


Ohhhh so how do you do that ? Remove mic or or shut it off?


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

I love your build by the way.


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## neuspeedescort (Feb 23, 2010)

i'm in the middle of a smaller not as extensive build in a Focus RS right now. just discovered the Pac unit yesterday. sweet Jesus that is going to make things simpler. i won't benefit from it nor will you it looks but they have an optic output add on. which is nice.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

optimaprime said:


> Ohhhh so how do you do that ? Remove mic or or shut it off?


See topic 1 under Environment Modification in the first post. ?


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

neuspeedescort said:


> i'm in the middle of a smaller not as extensive build in a Focus RS right now. just discovered the Pac unit yesterday. sweet Jesus that is going to make things simpler. i won't benefit from it nor will you it looks but they have an optic output add on. which is nice.


Yes the gent that started the 2014 F150 thread here is using optical with the PAC. Great option!


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

I installed an Aux interface lastnight so I could test my system with REW. In the passenger door I have a SEAS Tweeter and Silver Flute 8" driver. In the Driver Door I have the stock speakers. They are all still running through the stock amp.

Thought this was interesting on how much better (and perhaps more sensitive) the Seas/Flute combo is. Also found the dips at 140hz and 300hz quite telling. It appears my vehicle has some issues there, but I haven't determined if its the stock equipment or simply the cabin of the truck causing it. The red curve is the stock speakers and the green curve is the Seas/Flute combo. Tested with REW 40hz-20,000 with UMIK-1 calibrated at 90 degrees. Mic was positioned in the center of the cabin so the tweeters and woofers had a similar direct line to the mic.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Spectrum and Voltage analysis of my Ford Sony 12 Speaker System

Huge thanks for FordEscape for laying the ground work for all this. I couldn't, or probably wouldnt have purchased an Oscilloscope without his work and accessibility for questions. He's good people.


To answer the questions of, how does the factory non-variable output from the ACM look from a voltage and audio spectrum, then, how does the PAC AP4-FD21 look and finally how does the Variable Line Output (as referenced in the Forscan Spreadsheet) perform from a voltage and audio spectrum output - see below - (there goes 10-15 minutes of your life, apologies in advance)

Non Variable Output Performance





PAC AP4-FD21 Performance





Variable Line Out (Forscan Hack) Performance





Variable Line Out Deep Dive (and a correction) - I apparently was clicking on 391 Khz not 381Hz in the videos above where I'm showing the EQ bump on the left side. I've corrected that in this video and done a bit of a deep dive. So apparently there is no real EQ bump in the 30-50hz range. It's flat all across the spectrum.





...there goes the neighborhood

...so in the end, I'm sending the PAC unit back. I see no point for _my_ purposes. (unless I'm missing something) I'm ordering the Terminals that fit the Ford ACM from Mouser, and soldering up my own RCA's. I'll remove the speaker pins from the ACM harness and replace them with my own RCA's. Nice and clean and I can put it back to stock if I want to later.


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## j4gates (Jan 1, 2016)

Very helpful links for folks. Looking forward to see how this progresses.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

_Fantastic_ info there for late Ford owners IMHO. Huge kudos for undertaking the effort and sharing the results.

:beerchug:

Just to 'close' one detail .... did the _shape_ of the 'PAC' sweep or the 'FORScan' sweep curves change with volume (flat with only the slight 'bump' of the same relative magnitude at low frequency)?


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

FordEscape said:


> Just to 'close' one detail .... did the _shape_ of the 'PAC' sweep or the 'FORScan' sweep curves change with volume (flat with only the slight 'bump' of the same relative magnitude at low frequency)?


The curves scaled completely linear. I can do a video to demonstrate that in the morning for variable output as that's what's still hooked up.

Thx!


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

Excellent info Lex!

I already did a few weeks ago the ACM mod and added all my system to it, GREAT RESULTS!

I can clearly see the PAC unit adds more noise but it still a non issue... For the ACM mod I think that is the best signal you could possibly get correct? I you add a high performance aftermarket HU there would be no improvement I believe, so we are very lucky we can get this signal out of the OEM HU.


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

Lex a few questions about your system, I am currently running 1650.3 mille in the front, Voce 3.0 in the center and an old audison bit one that is not working perfectly. What I am trying to accomplish is to process the center channel correctly, how can you do this and how does it sound?

There are two options that I know of:

Process the center channel signal to only play whatever the L and R channels play simultaneously and ignore what goes only L or R. (I don't know which processor will do this)

Upmix to a Stereo signal to 5.1... wonder how it will sound?

Thanks for all the info!
JC


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

Lexingtonian said:


> The curves scaled completely linear.


Meaning the X-axis (dBu) scaled linear with volume but the Y-axis (frequency where the curve goes 'flat') did not move? Yeah, all of this very slight EQ occurring way down in sub-base range (as least on my system).

I realize this is putting a very sharp pencil on things, and agree with James Cole there's no doubt at all that your reprogrammed result proves the best possible input for an MS-8, I'm just curious about the very fine point on the pencil.

I can only hope that reprogramming my Non-Sony ACM similarly will yield the same outstanding ACM output > inputs for my MS-8 ..... _goodbye_ speaker level inputs and _hello_ to identical sound whether using the OEM volume control or MS-8 master volume control !

MS-8 de-EQ algorithm: "You're fired!" :laugh:


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

FordEscape said:


> Meaning the X-axis (dBu) scaled linear with volume but the Y-axis (frequency where the curve goes 'flat') did not move? Yeah, all of this very slight EQ occurring way down in sub-base range (as least on my system).
> 
> I realize this is putting a very sharp pencil on things, and agree with James Cole there's no doubt at all that your reprogrammed result proves the best possible input for an MS-8, I'm just curious about the very fine point on the pencil.
> 
> ...


Did your ACM mod results differ from Lex ones?


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

FordEscape said:


> Meaning the X-axis (dBu) scaled linear with volume but the Y-axis (frequency where the curve goes 'flat') did not move? Yeah, all of this very slight EQ occurring way down in sub-base range (as least on my system).
> 
> I realize this is putting a very sharp pencil on things, and agree with James Cole there's no doubt at all that your reprogrammed result proves the best possible input for an MS-8, I'm just curious about the very fine point on the pencil.
> 
> ...


If the factory "bump" of the low frequencies is 20-50 and not going all the way up to 100 like I previously saw on your previous graphs, I don't think that would be much of an issue at all, even for me looking to compete. After seeing these results, 

It also looks like the roll off from 15K and up isn't there either like it was with your ACM so it kinda makes me think more that the reprogramming of your ACM was done with some different software with more limited options like we were talking about earlier. 

I'm really excited to get my OBDLink tool in tomorrow so I can get this done. Looks like I might be firing my Fix!


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

James Cole said:


> Did your ACM mod results differ from Lex ones?


For sure, his FORScan reprogram results are definitely better on the 'scope, see MacLeod's comments ...



MacLeod said:


> If the factory "bump" of the low frequencies is 20-50 and not going all the way up to 100 like I previously saw on your previous graphs, I don't think that would be much of an issue at all, even for me looking to compete. After seeing these results,
> 
> It also looks like the roll off from 15K and up isn't there either like it was with your ACM so it kinda makes me think more that the reprogramming of your ACM was done with some different software with more limited options like we were talking about earlier.


Absolutely agree with all of that which is why I'm so excited by these results and the promise they hold.  

Chomping at the bit to get into mine to (hopefully) replicate this but unfortunately I've got other commitments through March 13 so it'll just have to wait. 

Aaaargh, would sure like to do the mod & re-tune before I spend ~20 hrs on the road to New Orleans and back, but it just isn't gonna happen. 

Gotta say that time on the speakerphone and computer with "Lex" yesterday while he was doing much of this testing and sharing scope plots with me 'real-time' was a ton of fun - he can make his MacBook _fly_ doing this sort of stuff, generating tones in REW, running the scope, changing parameters with FORScan, etc, etc. I _really_ appreciate him letting me 'look over his shoulder', it was almost as good as being there. Great guy, good stuff! Great video Producer, too!


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

James Cole said:


> Lex a few questions about your system, I am currently running 1650.3 mille in the front, Voce 3.0 in the center and an old audison bit one that is not working perfectly. What I am trying to accomplish is to process the center channel correctly, how can you do this and how does it sound?
> 
> There are two options that I know of:
> 
> ...



To answer your question about processing center channels. The only two car audio processors I know of that do true center channel upmix (ala Pro Logic or Logic 7) is the JBL MS8 and the Alpine H800. I have the MS8, but haven't reached the point in my guild where I have it active. FordEscape has one as well. Loves it.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

FordEscape said:


> Meaning the X-axis (dBu) scaled linear with volume but the Y-axis (frequency where the curve goes 'flat') did not move? Yeah, all of this very slight EQ occurring way down in sub-base range (as least on my system).
> 
> I realize this is putting a very sharp pencil on things, and agree with James Cole there's no doubt at all that your reprogrammed result proves the best possible input for an MS-8, I'm just curious about the very fine point on the pencil.
> 
> ...


I did a video just for you today demonstrating just how linear and flat the scaling is as volume increases on the X axis. I'll try to get it posted tomorrow! I think you'll like the result..


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

FordEscape said:


> _Fantastic_ info there for late Ford owners IMHO. Huge kudos for undertaking the effort and sharing the results.
> 
> :beerchug:
> 
> Just to 'close' one detail .... did the _shape_ of the 'PAC' sweep or the 'FORScan' sweep curves change with volume (flat with only the slight 'bump' of the same relative magnitude at low frequency)?


FordEscape here ya go!
Variable Line Out Deep Dive (and a correction) - I apparently was clicking on 391 Khz not 381Hz in the videos above where I'm showing the EQ bump on the left side. I've corrected that in this video and done a bit of a deep dive. So apparently there is no real EQ bump in the 30-50hz range. It's flat all across the spectrum. Cant ask for much more than that -


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## Unsecured_WiFi (Jul 27, 2009)

Lexingtonian said:


> FordEscape here ya go!
> Variable Line Out Deep Dive (and a correction) - I apparently was clicking on 391 Khz not 381Hz in the videos above where I'm showing the EQ bump on the left side. I've corrected that in this video and done a bit of a deep dive. So apparently there is no real EQ bump in the 30-50hz range. It's flat all across the spectrum. Cant ask for much more than that -


so the pac device should not have the bump either i am assuming


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Unsecured_WiFi said:


> so the pac device should not have the bump either i am assuming


Correct!


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

Lexingtonian said:


> ...It's flat all across the spectrum.....


epper: epper: epper:

That locks it - the reprogramming result is just spectacular. I can't imagine any aftermarket HU would deliver a better pre-amp output.

Things to be thankful for today ....
Ford building this program configuration into the ACM even though it's not used in any OEM implementation of the systems
Folks finding this option and publishing the 'how to' for DIYers to enable it
Lexingtonian spending the time and dollars to get the equipment and run the tests to demonstrate the result
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Life is good, and now better, for late Ford owners that love their tunes.

:happy:


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

(accidental post) See below -


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

..and the build continues...

I replaced the 3.5" Center Channel with an Eclipse 8951 5.25" Point Source driver yesterday. I frankly have had this speaker in my "stock" for, I suppose almost 20 years now (which is why it's a little dusty). Funny, I only had one and the crossover, but it was such a fantastic speaker that I just couldn't get rid of it and intended to use it as a center channel some day. Welp - That day came!

Here's the before Photo -










And the after Photo -










For all photos in between (approx 25), go to my Photo Bucket Album for the Explorer Center Channel Upgrade click on the link embedded here.



I first verified if the speaker magnet would hang too low and, while it was close, it did not.
I measured the Eclipse speaker mounting diameter which was 4.625" and created a template with Word printed on heavy stock. I cut it out with scissors and used both parts of the template in the process. I started by dropping the template hole over the speaker to make sure it was the right size before I cut the dash.
I used sharpie to trace the template onto the dash and checked for speaker fit
I then used a sharp razor to cut the dash faux-vinyl-leather and removed the foam under it. There is a hard layer at the bottom that has the consistency of Bakelite so I scored the bakelite layer with a razor and snapped it out with a pair of pliers. It broke predictably and while a little jagged, it worked fine. There is enough foam under the bakelite layer that I didn't need to remove that bakelite layer all the way back to the mounting hole as the speaker's natural basket slope to the magnet is quite abrupt.
I checked for fit and also checked for magnet depth again. Good to go -
Next I put Noico Butyl Deadner on the tops of the vents as they sounded pretty hollow. Much better
I also put deadener under the speaker hole 
A couple photos showing the stock 3.5" vs the Eclipse 5.25" speaker
I used the circle template once again to verify everything would work out on the stock grill and removed the metal mesh do I could begin cutting the stock grille.
A nice shot from the top as you can see the speaker looks great under the cutout, plenty of room for a little 5.25" mid-bass
I screwed down the speaker and wired it up. I ended up wire tying the cross over in the far left of the ACM/APIM compartment behind a metal bracket. Stock grill looks, well, stock! Immediate difference in the presence of the center channel. Looking forward to next steps in the build!


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## billj214 (Dec 12, 2016)

Lexingtonian,

Following your build closely, I plan on adding a center channel soon as well to my F150 Raptor down the road but will wait to see how things progress with yours. 

Some minor feedback on PAC (AP4-FD21) unit just for a full picture and questions when comparing to using Forscan.
1. Forscan programming can be overridden by Ford during a routine service. Therefore the outputs in use (not 100% sure) could convert from low level to high level and damage amp input? Just a theory.
2. PAC device includes a chime input option with volume correction, does the Forscan also include chime? Is it necessary or is there an inclusion of navigation voice in either unit?
3. PAC unit includes sub-woofer output with integrated volume knob, this has always been useful in audio applications, mainly if your amplifier does not have a remote control included. Do you typically include sub volume correction in your own systems?
4. In your opinion and based on O-scope comparison did you feel the PAC compared to Sony low level output was the same, better/worse or identical? This could confirm the PAC only programs ACM vs include a new audio signal as they suggested. I know the PAC installation requires the vehicle to go to sleep prior to turning back on. 
5. Is there any benefits of using the PAC unit optical connection as an audio improvement since when building a competition system all the details matter. 

I plan on keeping my PAC installed and upgrading to optical later, as an owner of audio systems in my vehicles since 1988 I have always struggled with losing signals from worn or damaged RCA cables! 

Thanks for sharing your build!


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

billj214 said:


> Lexingtonian,
> 
> Following your build closely, I plan on adding a center channel soon as well to my F150 Raptor down the road but will wait to see how things progress with yours.
> 
> ...


Bill to answer the most important question (in my mind) first, that would be Question 4. IMHO to the most discriminating listener there is no difference fundamentally between the PAC and Variable Out. 

On Question 1. If they did revert it, it would be a constant 2 volts out and thus it'd behave like you couldn't turn your volume up or down. 

Question 2. No Chime option to my knowledge on ForScan. I believe the system auto-scales the volume on those outputs anyway.

Question 3. - Good point. My JL Audio Sub Amp and my Processor both will allow for independent sub adjustment. I'll be using the JL Audio knob for my purposes.

Question 5. From a theoretical standpoint. Yes. From a practical standpoint when taking SQ into account. Probably not. From a "ease of use/ease of installation" with TOS Link amps. Definitely a plus.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

Begging Lexingtionian's forbearance for one last 'dot on the i" regarding the reprogramming for the _Non-Sony system_ folks following this thread (myself, MacLeod, neuspeedescort) ....

The anticipation (and slight worry) was killing me, so other commitments be damned, I just went out and temporarily reprogrammed my _Non-Sony system _ACM then tested with the PicoScope.

Got the same result 'Lex' has already presented for his Sony system: low-voltage flat line 20Hz - 20kHz. Whew. Silly me for having any concern but now that's gone for good. 

No idea what was done to the previous ACM I tested but it doesn't matter, all is great with this now.

Reverted back to speaker-level as I don't have time to solder the RCA ends and retune everything for the MS8, but at least I'll be grinning all the way to N'awlins and back knowing the fun that awaits my return.

Thanks again, Lexingtonian, now back to following your Explorer build.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

billj214 said:


> 3. PAC unit includes sub-woofer output with integrated volume knob, this has always been useful in audio applications, mainly if your amplifier does not have a remote control included. Do you typically include sub volume correction in your own systems?


+1 on that Good point, gotta agree that's a definite plus for the PAC unit lacking any other similar control in one's system. Yeah, easy sub-bass level control on-the-fly is needed for adjusting to recordings and preference IMHO. 

While the MS8 touchscreen remote has a sub level control, that's a bit of a PITA when focused on the road; I use the 'analog knob' sub bass level control/shelf filter provided for my JBL MS-A series amps for tweaking mine to suit the track and mood.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

FordEscape said:


> Got the same result 'Lex' has already presented for his Sony system: low-voltage flat line 20Hz - 20kHz. Whew. Silly me for having any concern but now that's gone for good.
> 
> No idea what was done to the previous ACM I tested but it doesn't matter, all is great with this now.
> 
> Thanks again, Lexingtonian, now back to following your Explorer build.


Excellent Sir! Now, what in the world will we talk about now that beast has been tamed?


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## billj214 (Dec 12, 2016)

Lexingtonian said:


> Excellent Sir! Now, what in the world will we talk about now that beast has been tamed?


Center channel integration! Your gonna have to take the lead on this one!  

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

billj214 said:


> Center channel integration! Your gonna have to take the lead on this one!
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I must say, the 5.25 sounds WAY better than the 3.5. Looking forward to getting my JBL MS8 rolling so I can see what this baby will do -


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

Lexingtonian said:


> FordEscape here ya go!
> Variable Line Out Deep Dive (and a correction) - I apparently was clicking on 391 Khz not 381Hz in the videos above where I'm showing the EQ bump on the left side. I've corrected that in this video and done a bit of a deep dive. So apparently *there is no real EQ bump in the 30-50hz range. It's flat all across the spectrum.*












You, sir, are a steely-eyed missile man!!! That is EXACTLY what I was worried about and what I needed to find out. I can now ditch my Fix and just use the Twk and keep all my factory audio controls and chimes. Anytime you're in the Chattanooga area, steaks and beers are on me!



FordEscape said:


> Begging Lexingtionian's forbearance for one last 'dot on the i" regarding the reprogramming for the _Non-Sony system_ folks following this thread (myself, MacLeod, neuspeedescort) ....
> 
> The anticipation (and slight worry) was killing me, so other commitments be damned, I just went out and temporarily reprogrammed my _Non-Sony system _ACM then tested with the PicoScope.
> 
> Got the same result 'Lex' has already presented for his Sony system: low-voltage flat line 20Hz - 20kHz. Whew. Silly me for having any concern but now that's gone for good.


That is outstanding news! My Scantool was just delivered a couple hours ago and I can't wait to get started. I'll be heading out here shortly to snag a set of longer RCA's (only bought the 1.5 footers thinking I'd be running the Fix) and then it's soldering time! Thanks to y'all we've finally come up with the ultimate answer for aftermarket Ford stereos and all it costs is $80 for a OBDLink tool!


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

..and the Build continues...

Yesterday I also added an Aux Line-In jack to my Sync2 System. Apparently Sync3 doesn't even have this option. I primarily wanted it so I could send REW Sweeps through the system for tuning purposes. I don't see much use for it other than that as I would connect most devices via bluetooth.

There are several different pinouts for the APIM connector. For my 2016 its Pin 10 Left + and Pin 11 Left- and 27 Right+ followed by 28 Right- (as memory serves). I bought the cable from FordPIMods.com Jason was easy to work with and provided a very well built cable although I did have to modify it by connecting the Green and Black wires so they both connected to ground. 

Worked out well.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

MacLeod said:


> You, sir, are a steely-eyed missile man!!! That is EXACTLY what I was worried about and what I needed to find out. I can now ditch my Fix and just use the Twk and keep all my factory audio controls and chimes. Anytime you're in the Chattanooga area, steaks and beers are on me!
> 
> 
> 
> That is outstanding news! My Scantool was just delivered a couple hours ago and I can't wait to get started. I'll be heading out here shortly to snag a set of longer RCA's (only bought the 1.5 footers thinking I'd be running the Fix) and then it's soldering time! Thanks to y'all we've finally come up with the ultimate answer for aftermarket Ford stereos and all it costs is $80 for a OBDLink tool!


So glad this helped you. I can, however not thank FordEscape enough, he was the one the ultimately flicked the domino on this whole Oscilloscoping the Variable Output caper. Side note, I didn't want to run the FIX type stuff, I just hate having complexity in my system. Another side note, in my Original Post on Page 1 I link to an ODB2 tool that works with Forscan that's less than $30 on amazon. I'd save the $50 bucks if it were me (if you haven't pulled the trigger already)

I do get to Chatt from time to time. Might just take you up on the offer!


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

billj214 said:


> Center channel integration! Your gonna have to take the lead on this one!





Lexingtonian said:


> I must say, the 5.25 sounds WAY better than the 3.5. Looking forward to getting my JBL MS8 rolling so I can see what this baby will do -


Oh boy, staying tuned to _this_ channel 

FWIW ... 
I ran my MS8 in L7 mode for over a year with no center speaker (front active 3-way, rear (side) passive 2-way for ambient fill, sub). With a bit of tweaking my front center stage was somewhere out in front of the windshield and I loved it. This tuned strictly for a solo driver occupant which is my 99% situation.

The _only_ downside was not being able to share that great staging with my rare passenger. So, I added another MS-A1004 amp and center channel. Then proceeded to retune and tweak.

Well, we've all been told that any tune for a multi-position listener situation is a compromise from ideal ....

No question that the two-occupant situation is better with the center speaker than any 'multi-occupant tune' I can get without it. And no surprise that the multi-occupant tune isn't as good for either seat as the solo-occupant tune.

BUT, for solo listening I've never been able to push the center stage beyond the windshield with the center speaker active _even when tuned for the driver only occupancy_. No matter what I've tried, when the center speaker is active it pulls the stage back and makes the 'environment' seem smaller. My tuning (lack of) skills, a function of my speaker choices, a function of the speaker locations in the Escape .... I don't know and haven't given-up, but for solo driving I like the sound without the center active better (so far).

The system -
Front L&R A-pillars and Center are matched abutting pairs of HAT L3v1 and L1v3 mid/tweeters. Each location/pair is seen as 1-channel by the MS-8 so TA is for the pair at each location set by MS-8 (uses 3/8 channels). They're split in the MS-A amps so each pair is bi-amped, active XO, with separate level control of each individual speaker. I can and have tweaked about every parameter except TA for each location which is of course set by 'autotune' with an MS-8 and can't be changed. 

Front doors are SI TM65s for midbass (2/8 MS-8 channels).

Rear doors/low ambient fill is HAT Clarus woofer with L1v3 tweeters on HAT Clarus passive XO's (2/8 MS-8 channels).

Subs are 2xSI BMmkIV upfiring in my rear cargo area floor (1/8 MS-8 channel which means I'm using all 8 available MS-8 channels when the front center is enabled).

Since adding the center and second sub, all this is driven by 3xMS-A1004 and 2xMS-A5001 amps. I love 'em, they offer incredible XO/filtering and level setting control for 'cheating more active channels' out of an MS-8. It's a lot of Watts on paper but of course I'm not pushing any of 'em anywhere near max output.

I'm pretty well resigned to the notion that a 'center' is great for a least-compromised sound with multiple listening positions; but for optimum sound with _only me in the car_ ..... so far I get the best effect letting my 'mind' build that center stage from only L&R speakers.

YMMV, staying tuned ....


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## Dougie085 (May 2, 2006)

Just wanted to point out to anyone doing any of this on their late model ford. From what I understand there is no difference between ACM's other than features like Sat Radio and HD Radio. The Sony system just gets programming on the ACM and then an outboard amp and different speakers. 

Also I saw mention of the PAC having a sub output and the stock ACM not having one. I believe the stock ACM does have a sub line out when in low level output mode. At least it does on the Fusions (which is what I have and will be doing all this soon). Here is the info. 

Variable Line Level Preamp Outputs From ACM (Factory Radio) For Amplifer Upgrades

Looks like left right front and rear connections, a sub connection, and maybe even a center channel although not sure if that one is low level output it seems.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

MacLeod said:


> That is outstanding news! My Scantool was just delivered a couple hours ago and I can't wait to get started. I'll be heading out here shortly to snag a set of longer RCA's (only bought the 1.5 footers thinking I'd be running the Fix) and then it's soldering time! ....


Love it, the champagne clip you posted is about how I feel, too :laugh:

I've of course already got 16ga for carrying my speaker level signals running from my ACM to the cargo area where my MS-8 is stashed. Monoprice 4-wire cables, terminated at strips in the amp-bay with short 'jumpers' to the MS-8. I'm hoping with the change to low-level I can keep using those without picking-up any noise - just make up new RCA jumpers from the terminal strip to the MS-8. 

We'll see .... I'll disassemble the console and pull the rear seat (ugh) again if I must run all the way with the shielded Canare mic cable I've used for making my RCA interconnects. Either way, can't complain given what we're getting here.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

FordEscape said:


> Oh boy, staying tuned to _this_ channel
> 
> FWIW ...
> I ran my MS8 in L7 mode for over a year with no center speaker (front active 3-way, rear (side) passive 2-way for ambient fill, sub). With a bit of tweaking my front center stage was somewhere out in front of the windshield and I loved it. This tuned strictly for a solo driver occupant which is my 99% situation.
> ...


As always an insightful writeup. Ya know, I am full aware that I might not like the Center as much as I'd like to - Proceeding with hope anyway. Funny part of me putting in the Center is simply that I always wanted to experiment with a Center. Back in the late 90's Eclipse had a processor that upmixed a center (that I couldn't have afforded, not by a long shot) and I always wanted to give that a shot. I think for me, part of it is a 20 year hold-over of a check box I've never been able to tick. The other part of it, I want to be able to experiment and find what I like then reach my own conclusion (as we all need to). It's very possible my conclusion may be the same as yours when I'm single passenger. Truly, I've never had a processor that can do what the MS8 can, and the journey is some of the fun part. I will however enjoy giving my family a decent experience when we're all in the vehicle. It will be our road travel vehicle so, that's a factor as well.


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## billj214 (Dec 12, 2016)

^^ What he said! ^^

Need to check that box and I also want to experiment with my Helix DSP Pro. 

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

Could not agree more .... the challenge, fun and reward of trying new things and experimenting has so much to do with all our efforts .... that's why I continue to enjoy 'playing' with the Center and don't imagine I'll ever completely abandon it.

And someday I may even screw-up the courage to play with a 'non-autotune' DSP like the Helix. I've studied them a bit and there's got to be tons of genuinely fun challenges and rewards in that amazing tool!


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

The build is going to stall still end of month. I've been giving up too much family time working on the truck. (I'm certain many of you know that feeling) My wife is leaving on business on the 31st for a couple weeks so I'll be able to tear it down in the garage, leave it torn down and wrap it up in that time. Looking forward to having the gear in the truck and not sitting in a pile in my garage.. Still trying to figure out where I'm going to mount amps and the MS8 Processor. The only real places for that in the Explorer are under the front seats (where there's ample room but don't want them to get kicked) and behind the rear panels where the Sony Amp and Sub reside. I'm certain I can fit 2 amps back there once the Sony is gone, but don't think I can fit everything in there. Won't know till I get into it and do some head scratchin'...


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## billj214 (Dec 12, 2016)

Lex,

Not sure which amps your using but you could consider a single 5 channel amp to save space and reduce the amount if wiring needed. I have the Gladen C5, lots of power and fairly small. 

I'm in the same boat as for getting time to complete stereo, need to start doing home repairs and wife is also leaving the country in a few weeks for business so that's when I'll do my fun projects! 



Sent from my SHIELD Tablet K1 using Tapatalk


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

billj214 said:


> Lex,
> 
> Not sure which amps your using but you could consider a single 5 channel amp to save space and reduce the amount if wiring needed. I have the Gladen C5, lots of power and fairly small.
> 
> ...


Trying to keep my budget down I am using 2 Soundstream Tarantula 150x4's and 1 JL Audio JX500/1D. All very small. Will probably stack the Soundstream Amps on top of one another. The largest unwieldy component is the MS8 which is, nearly without a doubt going under a seat -


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

I think I found a problem with the ACM reprogram...

There is an interference noise being fed to the processor and amps, if you play a 100-115hz test tone you can hear it on the tweeters and mids, there is a interference variable high pitched noise there and its only present when playing audio...

Can you guys check for me if you have it well?

Easiest way is turn the gains down low on your DSP and then play the test tone at full HU output, you should be able to hear it very clearly...


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## billj214 (Dec 12, 2016)

Lexingtonian said:


> Trying to keep my budget down I am using 2 Soundstream Tarantula 150x4's and 1 JL Audio JX500/1D. All very small. Will probably stack the Soundstream Amps on top of one another. The largest unwieldy component is the MS8 which is, nearly without a doubt going under a seat -


I'm debating upgrading to more power, currently at 90w x 4 and 500w x 1, would prefer your setup with 150 x 4 for more clean usable power. I've been searching but still haven't found a good replacement option, also my Focal's are 2 ohms which would benefit more on a class D vs class AB if I'm correct. Any suggestions? 


Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

This is the noise that I am getting, when playing music its immediately preceded by a bass note, its more noticeable in more songs than others. 

Of course if nothing is being played there is no noise at all, the problem is only when there is a something being played in this video It made the noise with a 100hz test tone. 

could you guys check for me if you are having this problem as well? 

Thanks!
JC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZQ5rusm9Yg&feature=youtu.be

We checked and its not the amps or the dsp it comes from the OEM truck audio system.


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

OK OK... 

Just made some progress its definitely the truck HU...

The noise is present when streaming via BT or connecting the phone to USB or USB stick with the same file....

When playing the same file on a burned CD the noise is NOT present... 

so I am baffled... how can I fix this?

Thanks
JC


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

James Cole said:


> OK OK...
> 
> Just made some progress its definitely the truck HU...
> 
> ...


Im sorry you're having this trouble. I wont get into the meat if this install until the end of the month/early April so I wont be able to test till then. 

Just curious, have you performed a master reset?
I'm also curious if it's coming from the "Noise Canceling" Wires looped back into the system? Disconnect those and see if the noise goes away. 
The only other thing I can think of, and based on your synopsis with the CD it should be a non factor, did you use the ford wiring to get low-level output to your amps or did you install RCA's at the back of the ACM? Thinking along the lines of induced noise here but it's a stretch.
 If you could also tell us a bit more about your setup, how you have your truck configured and changes made, it might create a clearer picture.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

billj214 said:


> I'm debating upgrading to more power, currently at 90w x 4 and 500w x 1, would prefer your setup with 150 x 4 for more clean usable power. I've been searching but still haven't found a good replacement option, also my Focal's are 2 ohms which would benefit more on a class D vs class AB if I'm correct. Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Your setup sounds more than adequate. There is frankly not that much difference between 90 watts and 150. It's less than 3db but I know what you mean by clean power. Andy W's car (MS8 God) uses only 40 watts per channel for example.


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

Lexingtonian said:


> Im sorry you're having this trouble. I wont get into the meat if this install until the end of the month/early April so I wont be able to test till then.
> 
> Just curious, have you performed a master reset?
> I'm also curious if it's coming from the "Noise Canceling" Wires looped back into the system? Disconnect those and see if the noise goes away.
> ...


Hi Lex,

I was hoping maybe you can test the same way (analyzing sound output) but this time playing a 100hz file. 

as for your questions:

1. I have not performed a master reset 
2. For the noise cancelling wires I didnt know they existed.... where are they and what should be done with them? And can the noise cancelling only work on BT/USB inputs and not CD on the OEM HU?
3. I used the wiring at the back of the truck only, everything else is untouched. 

As for my setup I have:
1 Mosconi 8 to 12 Aerospace
1 JL Audio 900/5 for rears, center and sub.
1 Mosconi AS 100.4 for front stage
Hertz 1950.3/ Voce 3.0 Front Stage
Illusion audio L6 Coaxials on rear
Illusion audio C10XL under the rear seats

This is all in a 2017 F150 with Sync 3 V2.2 and previously had Sony System.

Before all this ordeal I had an audison bit one and when we changed to the 8to12 the noise was still there. 

So thats it, like I said the noise is 100% fixed when playing trough CD Player the exact same files, If play those files trough bluetooth or USB the noise is there. Also worth it to add the noise plays on all speakers on two different amps. 

The noise does not vary one bit with truck on/switch/off/accelerating engine or manipulating some of the electricals.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

James Cole said:


> Hi Lex,
> 
> I was hoping maybe you can test the same way (analyzing sound output) but this time playing a 100hz file.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detail. You mentioned hearing it at max-volume. What volume level does it disappear below the noise floor. Or does it disappear at all?


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

Lexingtonian said:


> Thanks for the detail. You mentioned hearing it at max-volume. What volume level does it disappear below the noise floor. Or does it disappear at all?


It never dissapears... it just easier to notice at max volume with the processor gains down but its always there, depending on the song its easier or harder to notice.

What baffles me is that its only present when playing a sound (especially a low note) and also only present on USB or Bluetooth.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

James Cole said:


> It never dissapears... it just easier to notice at max volume with the processor gains down but its always there, depending on the song its easier or harder to notice.
> 
> What baffles me is that its only present when playing a sound (especially a low note) and also only present on USB or Bluetooth.


Interesting, the biggest difference between your setup and what mine will be is yours is Sync3 and mine is Sync2. I ran my system in Variable Line Out mode for a week before reverting (till I can finish my build) and never had an issue or heard an issue.


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

Its defenetly coming from the Apim wich handles USB and Bluetooth... you can test on Luna Blake - Blue song at the beginning of the bass notes you will hear a "chirp" followed by each bass note you cant miss it.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

Lexingtonian said:


> I'm ordering the Terminals that fit the Ford ACM from Mouser, and soldering up my own RCA's. I'll remove the speaker pins from the ACM harness and replace them with my own RCA's. Nice and clean and I can put it back to stock if I want to later.


What are you using as crimpers for the connectors?


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

dawaro said:


> What are you using as crimpers for the connectors?


Although I haven't tested them yet, I ordered these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007JLN93S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Frankly, if you're skilled with a small screwdriver, finger dexterity and small pliers you dont need the crimpers. I did a couple tests like that which worked out OK.


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## lv_v (Aug 24, 2005)

Awesome work on figuring out the best output solution on the SYNC headunits. Does the factory volume knob still work with PAC's optical output unit?


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

lv_v said:


> Awesome work on figuring out the best output solution on the SYNC headunits. Does the factory volume knob still work with PAC's optical output unit?


Appreciate the sentiments. Others figured it out, I simply fully tested it. 

To answer your question, as shown in the video, the factory knob very much works just as it does before. The PAC unit, if desired is a pretty plug and play solution.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

James Cole said:


> Its defenetly coming from the Apim wich handles USB and Bluetooth... you can test on Luna Blake - Blue song at the beginning of the bass notes you will hear a "chirp" followed by each bass note you cant miss it.


Any updates on this? I'll be resuming my build late next week. Looking forward to getting it wrapped up for certain!


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

James Cole said:


> I think I found a problem with the ACM reprogram...
> 
> There is an interference noise being fed to the processor and amps, if you play a 100-115hz test tone you can hear it on the tweeters and mids, there is a interference variable high pitched noise there and its only present when playing audio...
> 
> ...





Lexingtonian said:


> Any updates on this? I'll be resuming my build late next week. Looking forward to getting it wrapped up for certain!


Yeah Im interested in this as well as I'm hoping to get mine finished up or at least playing music this weekend. I was going to go the reprogramming route but if there's a noise issue, I can always still use my Fix. I know this solution has been tested and verified with O-scope measurements and such but has anybody actually done this and hooked it up to a system and listened?


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

James Cole said:


> Hi Lex,
> 
> I was hoping maybe you can test the same way (analyzing sound output) but this time playing a 100hz file.
> 
> ...


Do you have the EcoBoost motor? If so have you disable the Fake Engine Noise?


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

MacLeod said:


> James Cole said:
> 
> 
> > I think I found a problem with the ACM reprogram...
> ...


I do not believe this to be a widespread issue. I ran mine as variable for a week into the Sony amp before switching back. I will be beginning my install next weekend and can test it..


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

dawaro said:


> James Cole said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Lex,
> ...


I do have the ecoboost 3.5 and already run with fake engine noise disabled. It was configured that before my O Scope tests. The engine was never started during to O Scooe tests either.


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

dawaro said:


> Do you have the EcoBoost motor? If so have you disable the Fake Engine Noise?


Fake engine noise is disabled... what I haven't disabled is noise cancellation (if there is one) but don't know how to. Although I am very doubtful that is the problem. Like I said the noise is only present on wifi-bluetooth and to tell you the truth is very very hard to notice it... its only on some songs and when playing lower notes... 

The only way to hear it is to play a test tone of about 100hz... the tone wont be pure "bass" it will come with an interference noise... Its easy for anyone to test with a phone and a free test tone app.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

James Cole said:


> Fake engine noise is disabled... what I haven't disabled is noise cancellation (if there is one) but don't know how to. Although I am very doubtful that is the problem. Like I said the noise is only present on wifi-bluetooth and to tell you the truth is very very hard to notice it... its only on some songs and when playing lower notes...
> 
> The only way to hear it is to play a test tone of about 100hz... the tone wont be pure "bass" it will come with an interference noise... Its easy for anyone to test with a phone and a free test tone app.


Fake Engine Noise/Noise Cancellation = Same Thing.. In fact what a load of SH**. Noice Cancellation is actually MORE NOISE in the form of a fake 8 cylinder..

;-)

That aside. Interesting that you say you only hear the noise on Bluetooth. You dont hear it when plugged in via USB? Are you iPhone or Android?


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

Delete


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

Lexingtonian said:


> Fake Engine Noise/Noise Cancellation = Same Thing.. In fact what a load of SH**. Noice Cancellation is actually MORE NOISE in the form of a fake 8 cylinder..
> 
> ;-)
> 
> That aside. Interesting that you say you only hear the noise on Bluetooth. You dont hear it when plugged in via USB? Are you iPhone or Android?


I Hear it on bluetooth and USB doesnt matter if its a phone or usb stick... cd player and radio do not make the noise.... I burned a cd with 100hz test tones and the noise was gone.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

James Cole said:


> I Hear it on bluetooth and USB doesnt matter if its a phone or usb stick... cd player and radio do not make the noise.... I burned a cd with 100hz test tones and the noise was gone.


I'll be getting back to the build over the weekend and can test. My wife is leaving for a week which is an opportune time to tear the Explorer down and leave it torn down till I can get all of the work done.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Didn't get as much time over the weekend as I would have liked (didn't get to test the 100hz freaky tone James Cole is hearing yet) but I did get the passenger seats (front and back) removed and the C/D Pillar plastic panel. I removed the 8" sub and Sony Amp (boy, that felt great BTW).

I did spend the last 24hrs wringing my hands over where I'm gonna mount my Amps. I have 3 (plus an MS8 which is freaking huge, larger than all my amps), and while they're all Class D and not very large, there is truly nearly no place to mount them in the vehicle that's obvious. ...that is until I discovered a *CAVERN* under the front seat carpet. See attached photos. This pretty much solves my problems. I'll be able to easily fit my MS8 and one Amp (maybe 2) right under the passenger seat. I'll likely install one or two amps where the old Sony used to reside and I'm good to go. I'm kind of thinking that I may be able to fit my MS8 and 2 of my Soundstream Nano amps under there. 

...Just look. Good Gawd! All the Room!



















Lex..


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

I await your info about the tone and "high pitch interference" noise... but its not looking great another F150 I tested at the lot had it as well... So yes you can hear the tone on a 100% stock stereo and tell if there is interference or not. 

Keep us posted. 

Thanks!
JC


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

James Cole said:


> I await your info about the tone and "high pitch interference" noise... but its not looking great another F150 I tested at the lot had it as well... So yes you can hear the tone on a 100% stock stereo and tell if there is interference or not.
> 
> Keep us posted.
> 
> ...



I'll try to test it tonight. Big difference between mine and your setup is mine is Sync2 and yours is Sync3. I very much wonder if that's the difference. I ran Variable into the Sony amp for a week (it works actually but of course the way the volume works is odd as the CANBUS is turning up the Sony Amp while you're increasing the Line Out Voltage via the volume knob) - Never heard anything odd though. I'm interested to see what I see on the scope.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Mr Cole I havent tested the noise yet, I'm so sorry. Build/Life/Work is going nuts right now. 

Little work on the area under the passenger seat. Work in progress of course. You can see where I'll mount the MS8 and two Soundstream TN4.900D's stacked along with power fusing in distribution between them (not pictured yet).





































That's all for now!


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Sent from my iPhone


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

Lexingtonian said:


> I'm ordering the Terminals that fit the Ford ACM from Mouser, and soldering up my own RCA's. I'll remove the speaker pins from the ACM harness and replace them with my own RCA's. Nice and clean and I can put it back to stock if I want to later.


Have you tried these terminals yet? I ordered some and they dont fit the ACM plug in my F150. I was able to get them in the plug but something doesnt quite match up because the plugs will not lock in place now. I have ordered the actual plugs from Tasco and will be trying those this weekend.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

James Cole said:


> Lex a few questions about your system, I am currently running 1650.3 mille in the front, Voce 3.0 in the center and an old audison bit one that is not working perfectly. What I am trying to accomplish is to process the center channel correctly, how can you do this and how does it sound?
> 
> There are two options that I know of:
> 
> ...



JC, going back through this thread, it appears I totally missed this post. So sorry about that. The JBL MS8 and the H800 (I think) from Alpine are the only car audio devices that do true up mix to center. As to how it will sound, I haven't heard mine yet (booo). General consensus is if you're the only person in the car, you'll probably like the staging that comes from TA without a center. If there are multiple people in the car, a better stage and image for all will come from using a Center.

Hope this helps. Side note, I still haven't gotten to listening for the tone was on vacation last week, back in the saddle this week!


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

dawaro said:


> Have you tried these terminals yet? I ordered some and they dont fit the ACM plug in my F150. I was able to get them in the plug but something doesnt quite match up because the plugs will not lock in place now. I have ordered the actual plugs from Tasco and will be trying those this weekend.


I just installed them last night and they fit perfectly (a little snug as I was using 18ga wires and the wires in the factory harness are 22/24 ga I think). You're referring to your ACM not the APIM correct? 

My connector top and bottom before removing the RF/LF RR/LR Connections




















After installing the new connectors to RCA Jack -


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

Lexingtonian said:


> I just installed them last night and they fit perfectly (a little snug as I was using 18ga wires and the wires in the factory harness are 22/24 ga I think). You're referring to your ACM not the APIM correct?


Correct, the ACM wiring.

What are you using to extract and insert the terminals? I guess I may have just inserted mine too far. Either way I have new ones coming this week so I will give it another shot.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

dawaro said:


> Correct, the ACM wiring.
> 
> What are you using to extract and insert the terminals? I guess I may have just inserted mine too far. Either way I have new ones coming this week so I will give it another shot.



How are you crimping them? (with the terminal crimpers below?)

I did notice that the connections needed to be finessed a little. I used a small pair of needle nose pliers to squeeze the back end of the connectors to make then straight and thin. But once they were straightened, compressed and tightened up a bit, they fit right into the connections. 

The pins are removed from the front of the connector and require a VERY TINY screwdriver to trip the release. See my photo below where the perspective is staring straight on the connector. The light green guard has been removed. The release is right above the connector (for the top row and below for the bottom row). It's inset though thus the reason for the tiny screw driver. 

You could use a set like this:

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-4461-6-P...=1492539965&sr=8-3&keywords=terminal+pin+tool

But it's pricey. 

I used these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T7A7JP8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and this Crimper

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007JLN93S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I would use the large die to make the first crimp then use the small die (and not crimp all the way) to compress the fitting. Then do a little clean up with pliers so it would fit clean into the connector. Most of the them pushed clean straight in. A couple need just a little nudge to go in with needle nose pliers. I tried to feel how much resistance they had as if I wanted to return it to stock later I wanted them to come out easy. If they go in easy, they'll come out easy.

Hope this helps.


For clarity sake, this is the female terminal that fits the ACM Connector:
https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produ...34-1virtualkey57100000virtualkey571-2035334-1

This is the female terminal that fits the APIM Connector
https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produ...55-4virtualkey57100000virtualkey571-1924955-4

I used this wire for the APIM Connectors (22 ga)
https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produ...rtualkey65010000virtualkey650-44A0111-22-0-US

I used the white and black version of this wire for the ACM work I did in photos above:

https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produ...rtualkey65010000virtualkey650-44A0111-20-0-US

https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produ...rtualkey65010000virtualkey650-44A0111-20-9-US


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Fantastic **** right here !!! Love it all man !!


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

Lexingtonian said:


> How are you crimping them?


i used the same crimp tool but didn't make any adjustments to them. On the APIM plug I just soldered new wires to it so I didn't have an issue with that one.

I have ordered this tool https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ZOMMT6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and the factory set from Tasco.

Both should be in this week so hopefully I can redo the connectors this weekend.

It may be a waste of time for the most part as I am attempting to get a 5-channel output by changing some additional programming. The factory ACM only provides a left/right/sub (which I am not using) output. But after reviewing the schematics and talking to DanMc85 I think it is possible to get FL/FR/RL/RR/Center outputs. Hopefully I will find out this weekend.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Good news today, I finally got to turn everything but the Sub on and go through an MS8 Calibration. So glad to finally have sound. The seats are still out until I ensure everything is working the way I want them to. I'm looking forward to begin to button things up over the week. I do have one challenge that I haven't decided how I want to resolve. My Explorer has speakers in the D-Pillars that are 3 1/2". I ordered 4" speakers to replace them (NVX V Series) but I really don't have a way to mount them behind the stock grilles and the NVX's didn't come with grills. 95% of the time I'm the only driver and thus I dont need D-Pillar speakers. I literally may never have anyone in the third row so, I may just leave them detached. I'm running the rear door speakers as the side channel in MS8 which is working well. Need to head scratch on that a bit. I'll be working on getting the stealth box working tonight.

James Cole, I am hearing no weird noise. No Alternator whine or anything of the like. Seems pretty clean, let me give it a couple days.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

Lexingtonian said:


> JC, going back through this thread, it appears I totally missed this post. So sorry about that. The JBL MS8 and the H800 (I think) from Alpine are the only car audio devices that do true up mix to center. As to how it will sound, I haven't heard mine yet (booo). General consensus is if you're the only person in the car, you'll probably like the staging that comes from TA without a center. If there are multiple people in the car, a better stage and image for all will come from using a Center.
> 
> Hope this helps. Side note, I still haven't gotten to listening for the tone was on vacation last week, back in the saddle this week!


Although it isnt a true upmix, MiniDSP offers a center channel/Rear fill plug in that takes data common to both channels for a center and the L/R difference for the rear fill.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

dawaro said:


> i used the same crimp tool but didn't make any adjustments to them. On the APIM plug I just soldered new wires to it so I didn't have an issue with that one.
> 
> I have ordered this tool https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ZOMMT6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and the factory set from Tasco.
> 
> ...


Yes I believe center is possible too. Without processing though the staging will be pretty confused. Are you running any kind of processing? Ha, started replying and got interrupted. looks like you already answered the question above.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

Lexingtonian said:


> Yes I believe center is possible too. Without processing though the staging will be pretty confused. Are you running any kind of processing? Ha, started replying and got interrupted. looks like you already answered the question above.


If I decide to run an actual center it will probably be with the MiniDSP. Right now I am looking at doing it so I can route the Sync commands and NAV voice to it so they arent blasting through my may drivers.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

dawaro said:


> If I decide to run an actual center it will probably be with the MiniDSP. Right now I am looking at doing it so I can route the Sync commands and NAV voice to it so they arent blasting through my may drivers.


Just curious ... on my (SYNC2) system, each of the 'non-entertainment' alarm tones, NAV voice, SYNC prompt voice, phone ring and phone voice is set independently for volume level (just adjust each type of sound when it is 'playing' using the OEM volume knob, totally independent of each other and the 'entertainment source' volume). Does yours not provide for that?

I've never had any problem with any non-music voice or tone blasting through my speakers ..... just set each to a desired level one time and forget it. That's all worked just the same 'after MS8' as it did 'before MS8'.

The only thing that blasts through my speakers is my music when I crank it up - and when the phone rings or NAV talks, they're down at the low volume I preset using the OEM control method.


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## dawaro (Jul 22, 2015)

FordEscape said:


> Just curious ... on my (SYNC2) system, each of the 'non-entertainment' alarm tones, NAV voice, SYNC prompt voice, phone ring and phone voice is set independently for volume level (just adjust each type of sound when it is 'playing' using the OEM volume knob, totally independent of each other and the 'entertainment source' volume). Does yours not provide for that?
> 
> I've never had any problem with any non-music voice or tone blasting through my speakers ..... just set each to a desired level one time and forget it. That's all worked just the same 'after MS8' as it did 'before MS8'.
> 
> The only thing that blasts through my speakers is my music when I crank it up - and when the phone rings or NAV talks, they're down at the low volume I preset using the OEM control method.


Mine provides that as well. I would just prefer to redirect the Sync/NAV voices to the center. Doesn't appear anything can be done for the phone as it comes through the left channel. I also personally enjoy having a center channel but for competitions (if I ever finish the damn truck) it will be turned off.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

dawaro said:


> Mine provides that as well. I would just prefer to redirect the Sync/NAV voices to the center. Doesn't appear anything can be done for the phone as it comes through the left channel. I also personally enjoy having a center channel but for competitions (if I ever finish the damn truck) it will be turned off.


Gotchya, thanks!


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

FordEscape said:


> Just curious ... on my (SYNC2) system, each of the 'non-entertainment' alarm tones, NAV voice, SYNC prompt voice, phone ring and phone voice is set independently for volume level (just adjust each type of sound when it is 'playing' using the OEM volume knob, totally independent of each other and the 'entertainment source' volume).


I did not know this! Been having trouble with my alert tones since connecting pins 3&4 on the APIM to Pins 8&21 on the ACM to pass tones. Will try the volume knob the next time I'm getting a proximity tone.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

I installed my Sub amp last night and laid the JL Audio Stealthbox in the back to get a listen. Here are a few photos of the Amp install before and after I tied up the wires. I had to mount the amp upside down due to the length of my shielded RCA. I was able to use one of the SONY amp tapped screws as well on the upper right.




























I hadn't connected the sub wires yet, but did that right after I took the Pic.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

MS8 Woes -

The tune I got on the MS8 with Sub output set to none was amazing. With 8's in the front doors and 1 1/8" tweets crossing down at 2100hz I was smiling like a cheshire cat. Incredible mid bass. The tune I get with the Sub (or the last few calibrations I've done) have sucked. Sub at 80hz 24db/oct. Boomy bass from the Sub and less mid bass from the front. Sub doesn't sound time aligned properly, sound like it's arriving late. Looks like I'm going to have to dig into the KAIGOSS Stuff, but I don't want to give up my rear/side channels and all 8 channels are used.

My outputs on the MS8 are currently as follows;

1. L Tweet
2. R Tweet
3. L 8" Midbass
4. R 8" Midbass
5. L Rear
6. R Rear
7. Center
8. Sub


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

I installed my first MS8 a couple days ago in my 2016 Explorer Sport. I ran into this issue for turn on/off as well. Hope it helps someone -

The Infamous MS8 Pop and how to solve it -

Several documented examples of it here (and there are many more): 
Turn on / off pop with JBL MS8 and Sony
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/101151-ms-8-loud-pop.html
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/162123-jbl-ms8-turn-off-pop-does-not-do-while-muted.html

First, I'd like to thank DanMc85 for his excellent post below which was the ultimate solution:
Variable Line Level Preamp Outputs From ACM (Factory Radio) For Amplifier Upgrades

To quote from his post:


> Amp Remote Turn On: ACM (Harness B) - Violet/Red (Pin 18) OR ACM (Harness A) - Brown (Pin 7)
> Note these remote turn on wires are NOT 12 volts (approx 6 volts)... some amplifiers may require a 12 volt remote input and may need to convert this output with a third party device or relay. While you have the dash apart, you could also tap the accessory power wire at the key ignition harness for a guaranteed 12 volt wire for remote turn on. Also some sound processors, such as the JBL MS-8, support 4 Volts and higher as a remote turn on voltage so this is not an issue if you are using one.
> 
> *UPDATE:
> ...


I have bolded and enlarged the section relevant to the solution. First I used the ACM audio enable wire for remote trigger for the MS8 and that was what was causing the pop. The MS8 and subsequently all of my amps were staying on for minutes beyond the the car shutoff. Just before the internals of the APIM/ACM would go offline I'd get the pop then the AMP/MS8 would shutoff. Moving the remote turn-on to the C3501 connector worked like a charm and shuts down the MS8 as soon as I power off the car or system. Much better and thank you DanMc85!

The Pop IS NOT coming from the MS8. It was coming from the ACM as it was shutting down. I'm assuming ACM doesn't do a soft shutoff and line level amp capacitors were draining causing the pop before going offline. (what it sounds like to me anyway)

Hope this helps someone. If you dont have an ACM or aren't coming from the Ford Factory System, replace ACM with "Head Unit" and it will be relevant to you. Essentially the head unit is shutting down releasing energy into the RCA's before the MS8 is turning off the Amps. This is the problem you need to solve to eliminate the MS8 turn on/off Pop.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Been trying to figure out a Sub issue. It sounded boomy and unbalanced. I tried several things and in the end decided I needed to understand what curve I'm getting from the JL 10" Stealthbox for the Explorer. So I took a 20hz to 80hz sweep in REW. (80 because that's my 4th order x-over point on the MS8).

Well whatddaya know.. It's gonna a need at little EQ love to smooth it out..










*Huge Milestone today!*

I was able to put the carpet and the front seat back in. I'm real happy with how everything fits. It's hard to describe as I didn't take any photos of it but I had to cut the carpet a bit to get everything to fit the way I wanted. The back portion of the carpet, the part that drops down from the foot vent I cut all the way across level with the vent and bent the flaps down. then the back piece I cut so that I was split in two. I fed the portion next to the center console down under the MS8 and likewise fed the other carpet piece under the Soundstream amps. Looks great though and fits well.




























I'm not terribly concerned about the amps being partially covered by carpet. They are Class D and run cool anyway. One of the main reasons I chose Class D was because of the compact size and efficiency. It's a huge benefit and very clean power. 

Still working on rear of the truck. I haven't completely figured out how I want to run the D pillar speakers. Ford did something sneaky for the D Pillar 3 1/2" speakers. They ran both left and right in parallel off the same output. So they aren't in stereo. Pretty weak sauce. See the illustration below. 











I bought 4" speakers to replace the anemic stock 3.5" D-Pillar speakers but I dont think I'm going to be able to use them (yet). The stockers mount to the D-Pillar Plastic so I'm going to take a closer look. I also still need to make the cuts in my rear plastic to fit the Stealthbox. 

Tomorrow I'm going to hit the system from 20hz-20,000hz with REW and see what I have to work with. I'm _incredibly_ happy with the way the system sounds. Best system I've ever owned by a long shot -

Lex


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Thought I'd share my first real REW Sweep on the system. All in all not terrible. A nip and tuck here and there. 

My remediation steps for this will be to pull down 125hz and boost the gain on the mid bass drivers then give a little push between 125 and 500 if needed. Sub should be fairly easy to push the gain, I have separate amp Gain Knob (The JL RMB-1 and depending on the music I boost or cut the gain - it's a little TOO convent but I like it). There's several directions I can go. Come to think of it, I have the Sub tone control on the MS8 pushed north pretty hard which may be affecting the 125hz area. I'll need to even everything out and take a few more readings. Will be a day or two before get to dig into it. Stil al joy to listened to compared to the stock system. (WHAT A P.O.S.)











Funny thing happened yesterday on the way to run errands, my Wife (who has been pretty disconnected from the whole stereo install) sees the RMB-1 Bass Knob and asked what it is, I tell her, "Honey its a bass knob". She picks it up and instinctively turns it clockwise increasing the bass to damn near distortion. Then smiles, looks at me and says, "Thats what I like."... I thought.. dang, I found the perfect woman..


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

D Pillar Speakers installed today! Took a bit more effort than I thought it might as the 4" NVX VSP4 Speakers were WAY more substantial than the stock 3.5" drivers. As illustrated here:





























They really are nice drivers for under $50/pair. Hard to beat and absolutely perfect for this application. I chose the NVX's V Series because they were very high quality and had nice 1" smooth silk dome tweeters. I started down the road of mounting them behind the 3.5" grilles for the ultimate stock look but the space behind the D Pillar plastic panel has an odd shaped metal cutout with limited depth down low. I did a bunch of head scratching and tried everything I could think of short of getting my air nibbler out and cutting the steel. I didn't really want to cut as the seatbelt was right below and I didn't want to compromise the strength of the steel in any way incase I had an accident. Here's my head-scratching photos, you can see the 4" driver doesnt fit very well in the stock locations.





























It became obvious that I was going to have to surface-mount them. So there's that process -



















I put the VSP4 in the lowest point I could get the magnet to fit in the stock locations then put the dry-fit the panel back over top of the speaker to see if I surface mounted it how much I'd have to move the hole up to keep from hitting the steel. The photo above proves, I pretty much cant move the hole up far enough, I'm going to have to deal with the steel in some way, just not sure how much yet. I'll check when I get a speaker mounted. There was 1 and 7/8ths of depth between the back of the plastic d pillar cover and the steel pillar. The NVX speaker was a touch over 2"'s of depth. Definitely need to manipulate the steel. First lets remove the stock grille and cut the surface mount hole. I cut it a little off center of the original hole as I was trying to get the magnet to center up as best as possible over the steel behind it so I'd have as little work as possible. I marked the hole then used a razor to trace the hole. I used pliers to get the plastic to snap along the razor score line. I LOVE working with ABS plastic. It breaks so predictably and cleanly.






































I bought these Grilles on Ebay for $9.99. Perfect for 4" Speakers. I wanted it to look as stock as possible. Most 4" speakers dont come with grilles and the ones that do look like total Dog-SH**. These were perfect.


















I have the speakers mounted up and they look great.




















Next I fit one the speakers up and found that the magnet was hitting the steel (as I suspected it would). I used a hammer and some well placed smacks to detent the steel to make up the difference.  One of my neighbors came over as I was caving in the steel with my hammer wonder what in the heck I was doing to my truck. It was pretty loud. I took a photo of the passenger side I caved in and a photo of the driver side before I caved it in for comparison.
































Once I got everything mounted up I was happy with the results.




















I must say, now that I have a side channel on the MS8 I can hear, Logic 7 never sounded so good. I am running the rear door and d pillar speakers in parallel to the amp as I dont have more channels on the MS8, but this works very well and really does provide the rear passengers with some sound so the Sub doesn't drown them out. I'm very pleased. Need to re-run MS8 Calibration, perhaps tomorrow. ...or perhaps I'll take a few weeks off. This build has been a LOT of work - ;-)


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

I also wrapped up the stealth box install today. I removed the plastic welds from the stock speaker grille and cut the top and bottom lip from the panel so the Stealthbox will fit. 










































I had to drill a couple holes so the JL Audio suppled bolt and nut would fit. I primarily used a step-bit as they create a clean hole and say to control.



















Finally got everything buttoned up. Looks good and the rear seats work perfectly.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Eureka! I had been having trouble with my proximity alarm tones not working properly. Sometimes I'd hear them but they'd be faint, sometimes they'd be fine and sometimes I'd hear nothing at all. I rechecked all my hacked alert tone connections and everything was correct. I concluded it had to be something with the MS8. I knew the MS8 was supposed to be summing front and rear channels. As a troubleshooting step I simply faded my audio to the rear from the head unit and nothing. No audio. Whatsoever. That made no sense to be because I ran front and rear channels from the head unit to the MS8. Then I noticed the manual said to only run one pair of RCA's to the MS8, so I was thinking perhaps the MS8 was ignoring the rear channel.

I began reading Andys Wisdom on the MS8 for the 5th time and found this little nugget...



> Choosing "Skip input setup" connects inputs 1 and 2, (speaker or line level) to the input of the DSP and disconnects the other inputs and skips the input EQ. If you know you have a reasonably flat 2-channel signal, there's no need for input signal "conditioning".



...and there it was.... I left the bed and went and tried it...

I had been skipping the CD setup when I've been messing with tuning. Skipping CD setup prevented MS8 from summing all input channels. If you skip the input setup, the MS8 ignores every input but input 1 and 2. Thus my rear channels on my head unit were ignored and my alert tones (which are primarily fed from the rear), were walled off.

Alert tones are all working now, beautifully. Another side benefit, before I discovered Andys quote above, I was playing with the Sheffield Test CD and came across the left channel/right channel verification tracks. When I played them I was surprised to find my left/right channels were reversed. Running the setup CD on the MS8 fixed that too!

-Lex


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Thought I'd provide an update. I ordered a set of NVX 5 1/4" V series and when compared to the eclipse point source, I actually prefer the NVX. The tweet sounds a little brighter. Here's the REW compare between the two. I apparently have an issue with reflections/resonance (I think) in the 130&500hz range.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

I finally got around to sourcing a Sync 3 APIM and replaced the Sync 2 APIM. Worked perfect! I happen to like CarPlay!

I'll post my Forscan Mods tomorrow.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

BigAl205 said:


> I'm interested in your progress. I have the ForScan, but am having trouble finding out how to do the line-level out for the non-Sony system in my '15 Explorer XLT.


I apparently didn't respond to this post, I apologize. I just noticed. Ever get your line level figured out? Happy to help!


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

Lol, no...I never figured out a good way to run my 1/0 power wire. I don't think it would fit thru the grommet that you went thru, so looks like I'll be going underneath.


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

BigAl205 said:


> Lol, no...I never figured out a good way to run my 1/0 power wire. I don't think it would fit thru the grommet that you went thru, so looks like I'll be going underneath.


For what it's worth I think it will no problem. I had plenty of room around my 4ga wire. I think you're good there. You'll need to poke a larger hole than I did, but the room is for sure there (if your grommet is the same is mine)

Also, for what It's worth, you being a senior member of this community probably dont need me giving free advice on Car Audio. With Class D Amps, one doesn't need as much current capacity (I'm all class D). I'm running 3 amps and MS8 off a 4ga Welding Cable. No issues.


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

Yeah, my Audioque 3500 is a current hog, but it runs my 18 really well


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Looks like photo bucket just broke everything... so very sorry. Perhaps I'll get the opportunity to fix the photos once I figure out where to go with them.. no way I'm paying Photobucket for their strong-arm tactic..


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

Hello Lex...

I see you updated to the Sync 3 APIM...

Any chance you checked for the noise... actually a 10hz test tone will work beautifully to reveal if you have the noise. 

Thanks!
JC


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## Lexingtonian (Jan 15, 2017)

James Cole said:


> Hello Lex...
> 
> I see you updated to the Sync 3 APIM...
> 
> ...


I haven't tested sorry. I can tell you that increasing the volume up into the 25-30 range I do notice more noise than the Sync 2 unit.


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## James Cole (Dec 6, 2016)

Lexingtonian said:


> I haven't tested sorry. I can tell you that increasing the volume up into the 25-30 range I do notice more noise than the Sync 2 unit.


Lex any updates on the noise?


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

How goes this build? (Wondered the guy that bought a 2017 Explorer Limited yesterday)


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## thrak76 (Apr 6, 2019)

Zombie thread resurrection!

This is a great thread. Thanks for your work putting this together.

Question that I don't think I saw covered - 

I have a 17 Platinum, and am doing some upgrades. Will using an MS8 (or similar) preserve the voice prompts and such from the infotainment system, or do I have to use some additional equipment? Along the same lines, do the steering wheel controls still work?

Thanks


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## Scoupra (Apr 10, 2019)

Lex/FordEscape/et al,

I’ve got to say you folks have been amazing in sharing your builds over the years. I’m a new Explorer owner (2019 Eco Platinum) so that explains why I’m just now seeing these great forums on the Ex.

Before purchasing the Ex a couple weeks ago, I’ve had several late model Ram 1500 Laramies with either Alpines or Harmon systems and was spoilt with the spectrally clean sound that imaged and cranked like an IASCA Pro vehicle from yester-year! So I’m understandably a bit underwhelmed with the Sony Premium system of my new Ex.

Thanks for all the exceptional information to get me started on rectifying this with my own build.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but just wanted to say thank you for 3 days of great reading!


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