# Precision Power P.65C3 - Big contenders low price?



## brewermoe (Apr 11, 2015)

Anyone review or own these? 

precisionpower.com/store/products/speakers/power-class-components/p-65c3.html

The few reviews I have seen seem to place these components up with some higher level components but sell for almost half the price, are they really high end speakers?


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Use the search feature above right and you will immediately find a number of threads that will answer your question.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## brewermoe (Apr 11, 2015)

yeah, that is too much to sort through, eg. 22 pages that lead off topic, or just talks about the tweeter and/or the 40khz we can't hear, installation questions ... I just want to know if they play like some of the bigger boys ..., like the Hertz Energy, Focal PS, JL ZR's or C5's even, but for under $250! Can they actually handle a400W peaks or 240W rms? Are they close enough in performance that would warrant saving the extra cash ..?

I am considering the HSK's but these seem to be a good competitor for half the price ...
Comments are welcome ...


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

are you asking if PPI China, is the same quality as Focal China, or JL China, or Hertz China?

I don't know, but what do you want for half off, a miracle...


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

If you're not going to put in the time to research what you're interested in, then why are you even here?
I guess I and another 30-40 members are stupid for reading and participating in the 22 pages.
FTR, you answer is in there and as are many other answers you haven't thought of yet. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## brewermoe (Apr 11, 2015)

My apologies, I didn't mean to offend anyone, I work 70+ hrs\week between two jobs, working on CCNA, kids, ... doesn't leave much time for extra reading, it's already been months of researching and haven't even took the cover off my car yet! 

... this is one of my sources of research

I didn't find anywhere where these were half price, all the sites I visited they were all around $250, forgive my noobness!


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

brewermoe said:


> My apologies, I didn't mean to offend anyone, I work 70+ hrs\week between two jobs, working on CCNA, kids, ... doesn't leave much time for extra reading, it's already been months of researching and haven't even took the cover off my car yet!
> 
> ... this is one of my sources of research
> 
> I didn't find anywhere where these were half price, all the sites I visited they were all around $250, forgive my noobness!


No worries.
In the thread you will read that the winner of last year's IASCA Triple Crown won it with a set of these.
You will also find that the engineer at Epsilon (parent company of PPI) has posted in there as well regarding their capabilities.
It's worth the full read when you have time as is much of the content on DIYMA.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

compared to higher end sets, these run half of the price, at the lower end...

if you don't believe these are worth 250 bucks, then coddle together a DIY set and add a processor.

if that doesn't sound like what you want to do, or you will have a processor in the system anyway, then you may be able to do better than these, for a similar buy-in.

but I wouldn't bet on it.

look at what it would cost just in Dayton drivers, and you're over 250 and you don't get a passive crossover that was designed for these speakers.

now, I'm not a PPI fanboy or anything close to that since the business went to a conglomerate-owned mentality, but for what you get, it's possible you could put these in a car and never notice you saved >$300 on your speaker costs.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> No worries.
> In the thread you will read that the winner of last year's IASCA Triple Crown won it with a set of these.
> You will also find that the engineer at Epsilon (parent company of PPI) has posted in there as well regarding their capabilities.
> It's worth the full read when you have time as is much of the content on DIYMA.
> ...


I'm here all the time and I didn't even know that.


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## brewermoe (Apr 11, 2015)

cajunner said:


> if you don't believe these are worth 250 bucks, then coddle together a DIY set and add a processor.


Seems like a good buy, and you're saying it's at the lower end, which to me would still be a good product, but is it a big gape between them? ... worth spending another $250 or so for say the HSK's ... ? 

Seeing them in Ed's Titian is pretty impressive.

A DSP _is_ in the plan. I am splitting the woofer off as one channel and the mid\tweet as another, so the designed crossover _is_ a nice plus. I used to be a big PPI fan,10-15 years ago, but hey, I used to be an Oilers fan too ! lol


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## brewermoe (Apr 11, 2015)

Man Bret, I'm not getting any work done now!!


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

brewermoe said:


> Seems like a good buy, and you're saying it's at the lower end, which to me would still be a good product, but is it a big gape between them? ... worth spending another $250 or so for say the HSK's ... ?
> 
> Seeing them in Ed's Titian is pretty impressive.
> 
> A DSP _is_ in the plan. I am splitting the woofer off as one channel and the mid\tweet as another, so the designed crossover _is_ a nice plus. I used to be a big PPI fan,10-15 years ago, but hey, I used to be an Oilers fan too ! lol


well, get a list of 3 way systems from reputable name brands, and these sho nuff, fall into the bottom end of the pricing schedule as far as real world, or on the street prices.

are they just a bunch of cheap drivers badged for high end because PPI sold out long ago?


I don't believe that to be the case, I suspect these have redeeming qualities that make them worth their street price, and then some.


is it a 500 dollar system?

that depends on whether or not a list of reputable, street priced, contenders exist, wouldn't it?

tell me that, and I'll see if you still think you need to spend the extra cash.

since you have DSP in the works, I would expect you would attempt to buy some of the higher priced raw drivers anyway, but if you are looking at these, maybe they just call to you?

put it this way, I wouldn't be afraid to try these, just by the online responses so far. 

But, since I have too many drivers already and no real budget to expand my hobby interests at the present moment...


ah, what the hell.

don't buy these speakers!

you know the drill, leave a complaint, take a number, take a seat, whatever...


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## brewermoe (Apr 11, 2015)

I have gotten though about 15 pages of a good thread, probably the one you had in mind Bret, thank you for that, and some other resources. Seems if I take the time to do a good install and tuning this kit will really perform! 

$239USD delivered!


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

brewermoe said:


> I have gotten though about 15 pages of a good thread, probably the one you had in mind Bret, thank you for that, and some other resources. Seems if I take the time to do a good install and tuning this kit will really perform!
> 
> $239USD delivered!


Good man! 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Anyone ever link the PAS Mag review of the set?

A good review...though IMO the passive for the midrange to tweeter could be better.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> Anyone ever link the PAS Mag review of the set?
> 
> A good review...though IMO the passive for the midrange to tweeter could be better.


It's in the 22 page thread.....somewhere. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## brewermoe (Apr 11, 2015)

Ya, that 22+ page well worth the read, took me a week to get through it!


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## atownmack (Mar 20, 2013)

brewermoe said:


> yeah, that is too much to sort through, eg. 22 pages that lead off topic, or just talks about the tweeter and/or the 40khz we can't hear, installation questions ... I just want to know if they play like some of the bigger boys ..., like the Hertz Energy, Focal PS, JL ZR's or C5's even, but for under $250! Can they actually handle a400W peaks or 240W rms? Are they close enough in performance that would warrant saving the extra cash ..?
> 
> I am considering the HSK's but these seem to be a good competitor for half the price ...
> Comments are welcome ...


I am with you. Sometimes the threads get way too long and become a pain to read through all the pages. Some times it's best just to start fresh. 

I am having the same debate. I have the hertz hsk 2 way run active via dsp88r and am seriously considering these as an upgrade. I have the ppi 1000.1 and 900.4, and they have served me well, but it's just hard to believe that a $250 3 way set can be competitive with hsk 3 ways, or c5 3 ways! Does anyone have first hand experience and can compare these with hsk, flax, c5 or another good 3 way?


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## brewermoe (Apr 11, 2015)

@atowmack
Did you find that thread?


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## atownmack (Mar 20, 2013)

brewermoe said:


> @atowmack
> Did you find that thread?


Yes. I've actually participated in that thread, but it's alot to re read.


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## imickey503 (Dec 16, 2015)

I heard these in a showroom and they sounded terrible. 

Then I heard this set in a car. Holy Mackerel! NEVER TRUST JUST ANY FIRST LISTEN IN A SHOP. EVER! 


Buy from a ship like Crutchfield if you are new to the game and want to do a DIY Install. If you got the mounting locations, this system is easy to install. However... Listen up. I know this thread is from 2015, but I wanted to give you what I think is a long term Review. 

First, I congratulate this guy for doing the IKEA approach like I did with Subwoofer build as well. 








arcygenical


Read all of the posts by arcygenical on The Obsessions of Arcygenical




arcygenical.wordpress.com














Now I want to get something VERY clear about this system. And 3 way systems in general. Most of these systems are simply made so that you can make the crossover easy to do. That means that each driver as well operates in its band. But that also means Lots of other problems. 

So.. if you are looking to get that Killer Sound that you think these will do in a home audio setting? Think again. 

These 3 way sets are nice. But they are by NO MEANS PLUG AND PLAY. AT ALL! 
NO PLUG AND PLAY. Let me say that AGAIN. Dropping them in and going WOW is not what you are going to get unless you get lucky. 

One thing I'm going to have to note is that the system actually sounds better over time. But I'm going to come right out and say this. DO NOT INSTALL THESE IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT! THe will fade a bit over time looks wise. They Midrange driver is the most susceptible as well. How you deal with that issue is up to you. The Poor mans way is to just use rubber Protectant. CAREFULLY. 

Now as far as the drivers. These are NOT focals. They are not the High end Pioneer sets. They are Speakers made to sound great if you do the install like the guys on DIYAUDIO build amps. 

FIrst and foremost. Let's get this out of the way. The Vifa XT tweeter is a GREAT match for this unit. The AMT drivers are great. No kidding. But the stock crossover.... Its not bad.. Nothing is a deal breaker here. But that is where these speakers as a set could really be improved. This is one of those sets that FreeDsp, a $15 dollar Board X.O. would have been PERFECT for this set. But then? The people who buy it would blow the tweeter first, and then the Midrange in short order. 

For example, if you like that Warm Tube sound that Most Guitar amps have? Or maybe Chips like the LM's do or even the NEC Chip amps that sound more tube like with their distortion? Then these are the set to go with if you know what I am saying. The "warmer" your amp, the more you are going to love this system out of the box. 

I'm not saying to use it with a Tube Preamp, I'm telling you it will sound better if you do. It has to do with the driver 2nd order and 3rd order harmonics and how the system interacts with your car. 

Let me give you and example. If any of you are Arcade fans, you know about things like Q! Sound that was in some Arcade cabinets and some Audio recordings. 

This set CAN do it justice. But a 2 way system will give you the effect much easier then this set will. 

This set also has a VERY high Tweeter crossover point. Also, its not a Dome tweeter, so driver placement, even with a DSP is critical. 

The other thing is the INSTALL. This is not a system you can just slap on sheet metal and it will sound good or plastic Pillars or Dash openings. That goes for other speakers too.. But man... This set if you get it should be installed just like it was a $3,000 component set. All that box design software made for cars back in the DOS days may even be useful today. Thing is, the drivers themselves REALLY sound different when you take the grills off and don't use them. 
This goes for other drivers, but this one? You can hear the difference. 


The closer for example you mount that woofer to the door surface? The better out of the box is going to sound if just dropping them in. 

Again, these are JUST my experience, and my opinions. Do as you wish, but they really sound best when aimed right. And the Baffles where the drivers are mounted are more like what you see in a home set up. 

Mount the drivers like you would a Magico Home speaker set up. If you test them out in boxes, you can hear the difference when you don't give the drivers enough room to breath. 

Also, the cones themselves are very "Live and forward sounding" That also means that they work GREAT in large well damped air spaces where the back wave is absorbed and not reflected back into the cone. NOTHING WRONG WITH THE DRIVERS! It's just a design trade off. 

Now as far as the sound? If set up right out of the box, it can sound wonderful. In fact, it's great to make a home 3 way Home theater set of speakers. Or even Open Dipole set ups. This set does a great job in a open area. I of crouse sounds best in large cars if you ask me. In small cars? A 2 way setup in my opinion sounds better in many cases. 

If the tweeter sounds a bit forward or hot, its not just your ears. An AMT drivers is a different kind of tweeter then a dome or a cone and even a ribbon in the way it makes high notes. It has a different character. Not bad mind you.. Just not what you may be used to. 

I have had people tell me there system sounded like it had a Piezo tweeter. That is a common complaint. Before you mess with the E.Q., let me suggest you treat the driver by damping it with Foam Inserts like they do on some of they Monitor speakers like the Miller and kreisel. 

It also helps how you position the tweeter and what angle as well. Like I said, this system requires a lot more planning on the install in most cars. A simple grill cloth can make it sound amazing. No joke. 

This set is REALLY sensitive to how much space you have behind the Mid and Woofer drivers. Most people I think would say that would be the "Q" of the doors or its resonance frequency. Bascily, if you mount the drivers, and they have a very thin sound? The driver really needs more room to breath. Otherwise, it just sounds muffled. Almost dead or constrained. 

This may be one of the only speaker sets that I say you must make sure the drivers are matched. If they are not, you will know it. Also, if one air space is smaller than the other, OH BOY will you hear it. 


Don't expect these drivers to fit for your install. Your INSTALL must fit these drivers to get your money's worth. Or the $100 set of Skar speakers can sound much better than this set would if you just drop in and plug and play.


This may be one of the few speaker sets you can hear them sound different in summer and winter. It actually does sound different when it's cold and when it's warm. Sure other speakers do this. But with this set, it has been more noticable. 
it's not a matter of clarity or the tone changes but more like the voice changes a bit. The best way for me to describe that would be you after a night of drinking on a Monday and you getting ready to get off work on a Friday. 
your voice still sounds the same and everything else seems the same but if you listen carefully there's something different about your voice if on a phone call if that makes any sense? It's just slightly off. 


Everything else up above is nitpicking. Why? You play with the big boys, you better take the heat. And these drivers do! 

So why would I pick these for an install rather then other sets or DIY BYOD(rivers) that rival the quality and even out of the box, sound better ? 
If you are an installer, and you know people? Thank your lucky Charms for dust caps. And the way they put the money into the build quality of this component set. 

How many of you slam your doors? Or get your speakers wet? Dust Dirt MUD! Well. That's not really a problem for these drivers. And not in the way you think I'm Alluding to. See, when a driver fails, it costs NOTHING to not only replace them, but UPGRADE THEM with a better driver. That is where the magic happens. 

This system is like a gateway drug. Once you see what it CAN DO, you keep pushing it. Finding modifications and tweaks then eventually lead you up to buying more car audio parts to get even more out of it. Sound deadening. Worrying about driver placement. Speaker pods. Etc. 

And let me make this clear. this is a 100% upgrade for most people who buy them. Remember gentleman, not everyone is us with the so called "Golden Ears". Don't tell me you have not seen Billy that Swears by Piezo bullet tweeters. 

Some people are just into loud. Boom. Tis. Sizzle. And arguably some people are not going to care about soundstage either. Some people are just going to be happy that they fill the cabin with sound and don't sound Tiny an anemic like the factory speakers tend to over time after they wear and and they do BTW. 

It actually gets you thinking about things like S.Q. and how to get the most out of your system. From Crossover parts, to fully active DSP. Better RCA cables, then one day, you are thinking about Audio control DSP's sounding better then the rest, or if you want to go up to a Audison or a Mosconi, etc. 

Does you subwoofer integrate right with your main stage. Do you want to use Rear fill or just have the soundsage come from the front like it was made too. 

That is the WHOLE point of entry level systems like this. Many smaller car audio brands being a quiet champ out there helping grow the hobby again. Same with Boss Audio and much of the stuff from the house brands out there at least getting people into the hobby with low budget high value gear. 

Think about all those people that buy those cheap printers and then end up with a laser printer, or a full out wide format printer. 

Same for the Computer hobby. 

Is this a bad set of parts? Nope. In fact, I would call it the very definition of garbage in, garbage out with just enough slack to cover up some Nastys in most music to keep it sounding good. Hence why the crossover is set up as it is. Most music that people listen to does not really mix or sound well in a car anymore. 

Think of Blink 182 and Dammit. They made 2 versions of that. No matter how many times I play that on high end gear, I hate the song. Play it on my Cheap Outdoor speakers, and it sounds great outside. Go figure. They have been outside for years and still sound good, but HiFi? Come on now... But on most of the music I love, its amazing. It just sounds right. 

This set for what it is like it or not will make your music sound great. But not like how a a perfect 2 way like the Magico will, or a set of B&W 801's due to Guns and Roses speakers will. 

Some people swear by Martin logans. Some people have their wives swear at them for buying Magnepans for taking up the view of the windows. Each set of speakers tend to have a voice the designer had for them. 

I Love the way Dynaudio sounds for example. I just LOVE the way they are voiced. No cheap copy, no Company from Israel is going to make me think any different. I love the Dynaudio speaker sets. Nothing is going to change my mind. Price be damned. 

Same thing for how some people say Amps sound to warm or fuzzy. I like that Warm analogue like sound. Same thing when people try old J-fets with newer mosfets. Or how some people say Caps have a sound to them. 

Some people can tell the difference. Some can't. That's my take on this system. And I have hated at times and there are days that I just simply can't think of a better system. It just sounds so good with some music, and some... I don't know if it sounds right. 


Witch is why I will make this recommendation if you have it in your car. GIVE them ROOM to breathe. Do not Think for a second that you can just E.Q. your way out of a hole with these. If you have some nasty cabin resonance peaks? It's going to just make these sound terrible. You will even be tempted to just buy the Pyle competent set and wonder why you spent the money. I'm not kidding about that. If you are just going to drop some drivers in you car, CT sounds, NVX, and most of the entry level stuff is going to beat this system in many respects from the cost point alone. 

This is that set where people reach the point of Diminishing returns if there ever was one. That has to be said for many good and better sets out there. You get to the point where installation really is the driving factor here. And lets be honest, this set was made to give you the idea that it could compete with the Focal set. But unlike the focal set, you are never going to get that buyers remorse when you realize your install and your cabin just SUCKS.. Now you have to buy a DSP anyways! 

And man, have I heard some NASTY high dollar systems that were about as MUSICAL as a FM CD audio transmitter if you remember those. Everything is there, it just sounds Flat. No Life to the sound. It sure makes the Numbers, it can reach any point in the frequency spectrum, but it just sounds Modern art. Just crap. 

If any of you get the chance, do get a set, and try them out at home on a large MDF open baffle. A 4x8. Don't use simple screws, use the large flat washers and use the covers and flush mount them. Listen to these parts with just a simple USB Sound card crossover that you can do with Linux. Or get the windows version and try it out. Or pick up just about Any old skool Sound Blaster and do the Cap and Board mods and shield the CRAP out of it. Set up your Eq Curves. 
Lastly, around the Midrange and woofer drivers, you want to just use some of those foam rings. Tune to your room. One one side, just Closed cell foam to ONE SIDE of the baffle. Couple them with a Very tight fast and Punchy subwoofer. 

Tell me how that sounds and you be the judge. 



*UPGRADES: *

If happen to run across a set of Adam studio monitors? And you see them for cheap? Get that tweeter and try it out in your system. See how the two compare. You can also go to the larger Dayton Tweeter, You can also wire the tweeter out of phase and see how that works for you. 

Also, the surrounds tend to stiffen up over time on the midrange. USE RUBBER TREATMENT. Same with the woofer. 

Dust builds and crap gets into your AMT tweeters. I'm not sure how to clean these. Ask someone else. If you smoke in your car? More gunk will get on the AMT drivers. Just something I would mention. 

If you like Vocals like they were made to be mixed in the 60, 70's with the mastering engineer's who still were Assholes about giving you the Absolute sound rather than some Boosted POS crap with Highs so boosted it could make an anechoic chamber sound like echo box? Use a Resistor on the tweeter. The value is up to you. You can also do this with DSP, but trust me on the resistor if in your car you feel the highs are way blown out. 

A good test like one person mentions was on the Beatles Mr. Moonlight. There are two versions that you can find on Spotify that will tell you weather you need to. The Remaster version is from 2009. Sure its nice if you heard the song for years. But listen to the OG one called Anthology Version 1. 
The REmaster version is...Yea.. Its what it is. 
Both will tell you how if you need to tame down the tweeter. 

This set sounds best on songs like Testarossa by Matt Lange . Not so much with male vocals. It's accurate, but there is some Psycachosts at play with male vocals. Something like Alice in chains is going to sound great. Not so much with the beatles. That said... If you are in your 50's, you are going to love this system. If you are 16? Not so much. It's how it's voiced. TRY using a WARMER AMP out of the gate. *I'm really not kidding about Tube preamp. TRY IT. 

A word of caution about Class D amps that seem to have a Problem filtering the outputs... NO NO ON AMT! *
I don't know what is it, but maybe its the bias current, or something else... But.. A/B. Or a very high bias Class A/B amp. Think like the early soundstreams, And **** that dude who I talked too. He is a CHUMP. Never met a guy who hated his company's History. POS Sorry. I Digress. 

FINAL THOUGHTS: 

If you like to listen to your music LOUD and PROUD. You Like to Cerwin Vega and DROP THAT KNOB? You like hearing that GRIT in Alice in chains or love hearing DOWN or Red Stars from the Birthday Massacre? You will LOVE this set of starter HiFi speakers. It will make you Proud of Precision Power. 

Its just to bad the Soul of this company is no longer around. I don't feel it anyways. Seems that it may have been pased down to the New cubs on the Block. 

I hope so. 

Enjoy the music gents. 









LINKS you should read up about to help you tweak your system. 










Dayton B652-AIR ,My Thoughts.


Ok, I got these on a whim cause I wanted to sample the sound of a AMT tweeter. this was a bad choice since I am sure these do AMT's no...




audiokarma.org










Dayton B652-AIR IMPROVED - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum


Want a second or third opinion about your speaker cabinet design or other audio related problem? Post your question or comment on the Technical Discussion Board. Hundreds of technicians, engineers, and hobbyists, nationwide read and discuss electronics related questions each week. We welcome...



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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## imickey503 (Dec 16, 2015)

Damn . Do I even speak english? I just read what I wrote. Sorry guys.


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## Arcygenical (4 mo ago)

Damn. I didn't realize anyone would link or see that build.
I know this is necro'd as all hell, but to reiterate what Imickey said above, the passive crossover for a 3 way component system does a lot of work, but I still rely on an active crossover to really get that fine control and 12dba/octave finesse between subs, mids and highend, (especially with 3 subs in the mix)

The set has now been depreciated, and replaced with a new model with similar performance (but slightly different T/S parameters). The 6.5"s handle everything down to 50hz without issue. The 2.5" driver is crossed around 2.7k, and the AMTs (which are VERY sensitive btw, I use a rack EQ to totally disable all 13khz+ frequencies -since I can't hear them anyways - to take some stress off it, they're not rated for more than 15w, and I've burnt them out once before) are crossed at the 4.8khz range.

Component systems like this _love_ clean power behind them. Currently feeding them with Behringer power amps around 175-225wpc depending on how much I feel like getting evicted.

And I got the cabinets for 9$ closeout at Ikea. They're surprisingly well built for the price.

Might as well show off the final result.


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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

Arcygenical said:


> Damn. I didn't realize anyone would link or see that build.
> I know this is necro'd as all hell, but to reiterate what Imickey said above, the passive crossover for a 3 way component system does a lot of work, but I still rely on an active crossover to really get that fine control and 12dba/octave finesse between subs, mids and highend, (especially with 3 subs in the mix)
> 
> The set has now been depreciated, and replaced with a new model with similar performance (but slightly different T/S parameters). The 6.5"s handle everything down to 80hz without issue. The 2.5" driver is crossed around 2.7k, and the AMTs (which are VERY sensitive btw, I use a rack EQ to totally disable all 13khz+ frequencies -since I can't hear them anyways - to take some stress off it, they're not rated for more than 15w, and I've burnt them out once before)
> ...


You kinda late to the party 🥳. Thread is 7 years old and imickey503 was 5 years late also. He is also banned probly cuz of..... meth and typing. Lol

Welcome to DIYMA buddy.


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## Arcygenical (4 mo ago)

ItsonlyaHONDA said:


> You kinda late to the party 🥳. Thread is 7 years old and imickey503 was 5 years late also. He is also banned probly cuz of..... meth and typing. Lol
> 
> Welcome to DIYMA buddy.


Yeah, I certainly got the "amphetamine rant" vibe from the above. But hey, better late than never!

And thank you!


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