# Audiofrog GB25 or GB40



## TerryGreen5986 (Jun 23, 2017)

For anyone with experience with these mids, what’s the difference? How would u know which to use? 

One plays higher/lower frequencies? 


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Ones a lot bigger. 
Bigger one will have more output. 
Just like anything else.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Both will play down to the midbass no problem. Another member ,Skiezer, here said the 25 is very sensitive and he had to turn them down more than his tweeters. 
The gb tweeters are very sensitive and get very loud. If the gb 25 is that sensitive they should provide enough output easily that your midbass wont be able to keep up. Id go for whatever fits your install needs. Im personally going with the 25 as soon as time allows. Much easier to get them where i want them.


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

GotFrogs said:


> OK, guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







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## TerryGreen5986 (Jun 23, 2017)

brumledb said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Appreciate that 


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

"there is no point in using a bg 40 in a pillars.." well, there is..if you need more output than the gb 25 can put out and can properly install them, I'd take the bigger mid almost every time.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

drop1 said:


> Both will play down to the midbass no problem. Another member ,Skiezer, here said the 25 is very sensitive and he had to turn them down more than his tweeters.
> The gb tweeters are very sensitive and get very loud. If the gb 25 is that sensitive they should provide enough output easily that your midbass wont be able to keep up. Id go for whatever fits your install needs. Im personally going with the 25 as soon as time allows. Much easier to get them where i want them.


This. I do not know how or why they have so much output. But they really do not reflect their sensitivity rating. The only time Andy suggests the gb40 is for use outside of the pillars where they can be put in a large-ish enclosure.

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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

drop1 said:


> ...
> The gb tweeters are very sensitive and get very loud.
> ...


They do not look sensitive on paper?

(The rest of your post made sense)


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## TerryGreen5986 (Jun 23, 2017)

I have 200 watts running to my GB tweets and I still had to turn them up about 3DB on the HU to get the volume I wanted. I dunno what that was about (maybe my installer turned them down in the DSP) 


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

TerryGreen5986 said:


> I have 200 watts running to my GB tweets and I still had to turn them up about 3DB on the HU to get the volume I wanted. I dunno what that was about (maybe my installer turned them down in the DSP)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im running mine at -10db and cutting areas above 5khz by another 10db.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Ask anybody that heard my GB25's playing IB in the kick panels...I had A weighted measurements in the upper 1-teens and lower 120's on some songs

Edit: the only thing that kept my volume in check was my nearby plastic panel resonating. It wasn't until a get together that they ever really stretched their legs. They get ridiculously loud


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

AudioFROG...stretched their legs? 

Audiofrog Legs?

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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Holmz said:


> They do not look sensitive on paper?
> 
> (The rest of your post made sense)


I realize this is the case.. But I honestly almost cant believe the sensitivity ratings. They must be conservative. Evey time I or someone I know swaps tweeters with gb10s, the first thing thats noticed is levels need to come down. Nit because they sound harsh, but because output across the board is just high. Its measurable. I'm sure timelessr1 can comment about how much more efficient they were than his mille tweeters that we swapped out. I also compared them to scan illuminators, and sinfoni tempos in my car. Much louder than the other two. Its the same thing with the gb25. They just have a ton of output. I think the gb25s are down -8 or more in my dsp vs my gb60s. The tweeters might be down -3 or so, but they have like 30 watts on them

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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Tastes like chicken?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

SkizeR said:


> This. *I do not know how or why they have so much output.* But they really do not reflect their sensitivity rating. The only time Andy suggests the gb40 is for use outside of the pillars where they can be put in a large-ish enclosure.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


Huge beefy coil for their surface area, double the xmax you typically find in drivers this size, and a higher Fs than normal making it more sensitive in the midrange. Like PA drivers are when compared to the home or car audio varieties.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Huge beefy coil for their surface area, double the xmax you typically find in drivers this size, and a higher Fs than normal making it more sensitive in the midrange. Like PA drivers are when compared to the home or car audio varieties.


actually, for a 2.5 inch driver it plays pretty low and its FS isnt very high. but regardless of its features and specs.. its rated at 86db sensitivity. when i saw this and considered its size, i was very worried on its output. now that i have it, i know it will get louder than i can really handle for anything more than a short part of a song on only 75 watts before eq and level cuts


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

SkizeR said:


> actually, for a 2.5 inch driver it plays pretty low and its FS isnt very high. but regardless of its features and specs.. its rated at 86db sensitivity. when i saw this and considered its size, i was very worried on its output. now that i have it, i know it will get louder than i can really handle for anything more than a short part of a song on only 75 watts before eq and level cuts


Yes it can play very low thanks to it's added throw, but it was designed with the mindset of not having a typical fullrange like resonant frequency for the purpose of increasing sensitivity. Andy wanted a mid not a fullrange that everyone had to resort to at the time. The Fs is not high in absolute terms of course but it is +50% higher than fullranges in that size.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-fullrange/peerless-830986-3-full-range/



Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Thanks Erin!
> 
> A few notes about these drivers and also about crossover recommendations:
> 
> ...


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Yes it can play very low thanks to it's added throw, but it was designed with the mindset of not having a typical fullrange like resonant frequency for the purpose of increasing sensitivity. Andy wanted a mid not a fullrange that everyone had to resort to at the time. The Fs is not high in absolute terms of course but it is +50% higher than fullranges in that size.
> 
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-fullrange/peerless-830986-3-full-range/


well aware. its just crazy to me how loud these "86db sensitive" speakers really are. same with the tweeters


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

I wonder how they do output wise vs the AP 2 and 3in that can play full range.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DC/Hertz said:


> I wonder how they do output wise vs the AP 2 and 3in that can play full range.


i would expect the gb25 to have more considering iron law, but on paper it looks to be a toss up.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

It's unreal for that small of a driver to have that much output for its bandwidth.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> I realize this is the case.. But I honestly almost cant believe the sensitivity ratings. They must be conservative. Evey time I or someone I know swaps tweeters with gb10s, the first thing thats noticed is levels need to come down. Nit because they sound harsh, but because output across the board is just high. Its measurable. I'm sure timelessr1 can comment about how much more efficient they were than his mille tweeters that we swapped out. I also compared them to scan illuminators, and sinfoni tempos in my car. Much louder than the other two. Its the same thing with the gb25. They just have a ton of output. I think the gb25s are down -8 or more in my dsp vs my gb60s. The tweeters might be down -3 or so, but they have like 30 watts on them
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


Well this sort of sucks then when the specs are inaccurate. I was trying to base amplifier wattage requirements on sound level (dBA) and the SPL specs...

Other than the lower efficiency they looked good...


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## robtr8 (Dec 6, 2011)

If you want the mid to play down to 125, then you need the 40's. This is where I'm stuck. I did the system in the 3 and had to live with the existing 4" drivers for a bit while I waited for the GB40's to show up. After I swapped them out, the sound was massively different. The midbass just came alive, vocals more defined and the dynamic range is astonishing. Part having the 4's up so high and forward in the coupe's doors, part having a relatively small vehicle volume to fill with sound and to a large part, pretty awesome drivers.

Now I'm redoing the system in the moose. Going active, doubling the subs and amps, etc. Not as advantageous door driver location, easily double the vehicle volume. I'm playing with the placement of the GZUF60SQ's, thinking of swapping them out for the GB25's but wishing for the GB40's.


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## TerryGreen5986 (Jun 23, 2017)

Sounds like doing the GB40’s in some sort of custom dash location may give some better results. 

Got some thinking to do. I gave myself til October to get it together then make that weekend trip to NY & let Nick work his magic 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

robtr8 said:


> If you want the mid to play down to 125, then you need the 40's. This is where I'm stuck. I did the system in the 3 and had to live with the existing 4" drivers for a bit while I waited for the GB40's to show up. After I swapped them out, the sound was massively different. The midbass just came alive, vocals more defined and the dynamic range is astonishing. Part having the 4's up so high and forward in the coupe's doors, part having a relatively small vehicle volume to fill with sound and to a large part, pretty awesome driver..


I had been leaning towards GB25s...

Where were the GB25s crossed over?
What was the 4" speaker? What did you swap them for?
So this a two way setup? With no low note woofer?




robtr8 said:


> Now I'm redoing the system in the moose. Going active, doubling the subs and amps, etc. Not as advantageous door driver location, easily double the vehicle volume. I'm playing with the placement of the GZUF60SQ's, thinking of swapping them out for the GB25's but wishing for the GB40's.


Is a "moose" slang for a Dodge Ram?
Or what is it?


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## robtr8 (Dec 6, 2011)

The factory 4" door drivers in a 3 series are HK? Crappy anyways. Going to the GB40's was the best bang for the buck. I have a semi active system setup where the Pioneer Network Mode separates the tweet, mid and midbass-sub at 5k and 125 with the amp's filters separating the midbass and sub at 63. Only downside is no separate T/A for the 8" Jehnert's and 12" Morel.

The "Moose" is the Volvo XC90. https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/prancing-moose-stickers.html

I currently have the Ground Zero's HP'd at their preffered 300 using the HAT L3x. I have a new AVH-3300NEX waiting to be installed. Highest setting on the mid HP is 250, which is ideal for the GB25.


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> I realize this is the case.. But I honestly almost cant believe the sensitivity ratings. They must be conservative. Evey time I or someone I know swaps tweeters with gb10s, the first thing thats noticed is levels need to come down. Nit because they sound harsh, but because output across the board is just high. Its measurable. I'm sure timelessr1 can comment about how much more efficient they were than his mille tweeters that we swapped out. I also compared them to scan illuminators, and sinfoni tempos in my car. Much louder than the other two. Its the same thing with the gb25. They just have a ton of output. I think the gb25s are down -8 or more in my dsp vs my gb60s. The tweeters might be down -3 or so, but they have like 30 watts on them
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


I did a direct swap from Mille 280's to GB10's, and I ended up having to turn the levels down slightly since the GB10's were a few db's to loud. At the end of the day with correct level matching both tweeters are amazing...but for me..having a grill on the tweeter was a main concern...keeps roving fingers from leaving me tweeterless


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## TerryGreen5986 (Jun 23, 2017)

^^ my 2 favorite tweeters at the moment. They make me smiiiile


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I wanted to like the gb tweeters and maybe if i could get them more on axis i would but my left tweet is 75 degrees off axis, my right 45 degrees. My shop talked me into the gb oem's so i dont have a grille or even a way to surface mount them. Shame. That far off axis the tweets do nothing for me.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

drop1 said:


> I wanted to like the gb tweeters and maybe if i could get them more on axis i would but my left tweet is 75 degrees off axis, my right 45 degrees. My shop talked me into the gb oem's so i dont have a grille or even a way to surface mount them. Shame. That far off axis the tweets do nothing for me.


Yikes.. Ask them to swap for refular ones

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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > I wanted to like the gb tweeters and maybe if i could get them more on axis i would but my left tweet is 75 degrees off axis, my right 45 degrees. My shop talked me into the gb oem's so i dont have a grille or even a way to surface mount them. Shame. That far off axis the tweets do nothing for me.
> ...


Ita a small shop. We used the ford factory locations and they are terrible. Being such a small shop they dont stock any high end items. Its all special order. 
Im swapping my amps and adding a 3rd and the utopia tbe tweets. I know i like those amd those pods they come with are perfect for someone like me who will move tweeters around forever until im happy. They are helping me a lot with thr amp amd install so its not that big of a deal but i domt imagine selling oem gb tweeters will be easy. Most here go for other options. I should have. 
My response isnt bad but its all kinds of reflected on one side and not the other.
Why ford chose the pillars at the windsheild instead of firing up at the windsheild from in the dadh is beyond me.


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## banshee28 (Mar 23, 2006)

robtr8 said:


> If you want the mid to play down to 125, then you need the 40's. This is where I'm stuck. I did the system in the 3 and had to live with the existing 4" drivers for a bit while I waited for the GB40's to show up. After I swapped them out, the sound was massively different. The midbass just came alive, vocals more defined and the dynamic range is astonishing. Part having the 4's up so high and forward in the coupe's doors, part having a relatively small vehicle volume to fill with sound and to a large part, pretty awesome drivers.
> 
> Now I'm redoing the system in the moose. Going active, doubling the subs and amps, etc. Not as advantageous door driver location, easily double the vehicle volume. I'm playing with the placement of the GZUF60SQ's, thinking of swapping them out for the GB25's but wishing for the GB40's.


Interesting...I currently have some older JBL 4" mids which are ok, but I think the GB40's would be much better and probably play a little lower also. These will also be going into a 3 series high up in the stock door panel locations.


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## robtr8 (Dec 6, 2011)

Just a follow up. I was using the GZ's up high to bring the sound stage up in my previous non-active setup. It worked to a point but could be real harsh. Based on one of my audio guys saying "Too many tweeters", I removed the 2.5" drivers and ran the new AVH-3300NEX on just the three way setup. Sound stage, with the T/A dialed in, sounds great and overall, the system sounds less harsh. I suppose with a better processor a 4 way system with 2.5's could be tamed but right now, I'm pretty happy.

To the OP's point, in my experience, in the e92, the GB40's do a great job filling in between the floor mounted Jehnert's and the sail panel Morel's. Given my limited processor capabilities in the new Pioneer, in the XC90, the 2.5" drivers stuck between the AP 6.5" door drivers and the HAT A-pillar mounted tweeters was not helpful.


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## 156546 (Feb 10, 2017)

Holmz said:


> Well this sort of sucks then when the specs are inaccurate. I was trying to base amplifier wattage requirements on sound level (dBA) and the SPL specs...
> 
> Other than the lower efficiency they looked good...


OK, everyone. The specs are accurate. GB series mids are pretty well matched in sensitivity, and that's no accident. The tweeters are designed to be about 6dB louder than the mids so there's a range of adjustability when the passive crossovers are used. When you use an active crossover, that affords the ability to turn the sensitivity controls of your amps down to minimize hiss. 

"Wow, these things play louder than I expected" is not a measurement and it's not a spec. 

And, the sensitivity rating and the frequency response plots are VOLTAGE sensitivity, not power sensitivity. Why? Because amplifiers are voltage sources (well, most of them), to the sensitivity ratings and graphs indicate their output relative to one another when CONNECTED TO THE SAME AMP or a SIMILAR VOLTAGE SOURCE. 

GB25's are designed so they'll play down to about 220 Hz in the smallest box you can build around them--they're optimized for a-pillar boxes. They can also be used in infinite baffle. 

The GB40 is designed for infinite baffle and the depth has been designed so they fit most BMW doors. 

When choosing a speaker for an a-pillar pod, the enclosure volume is really important, just like a subwoofer. Sticking a big speaker designed for infinite baffle in a little box limits the low frequency output and creates a big peak before the rolloff--just like a subwoofer in a box that's too small. So, this idea that "putting the biggest speaker possible up there to get more of the sound above the dash" is too simplistic to be of much use.


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

GotFrogs said:


> OK, everyone. The specs are accurate. GB series mids are pretty well matched in sensitivity, and that's no accident. The tweeters are designed to be about 6dB louder than the mids so there's a range of adjustability when the passive crossovers are used. When you use an active crossover, that affords the ability to turn the sensitivity controls of your amps down to minimize hiss.
> 
> "Wow, these things play louder than I expected" is not a measurement and it's not a spec.
> 
> ...


Words of wisdom! Thank you


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## dsquared (Aug 10, 2016)

Anybody else have experience with either one of these in their kicks?
I talked to Robert(1800collect) and he is very impressed with the 25s there.
I'm liking the idea so I don't have to cut a hole in my door.
Thinking about the 40s in that location IB of course


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## Naptownsoldier1488 (Jul 9, 2016)

I have gb40s in my upper door and they sound awesome I had gb25s be for on my pillars there both awesome I like the width i get with the door install better bottom line both are really really nice drivers I am now a audiofrog nuthugger


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I think width is key when looking at mid-range installations. In my Jetta, my kick panel was essentially on the same plane as my doors.

I think they're both great options. I just hate trying to build doors properly so I like to avoid them


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

drop1 said:


> Ita a small shop. We used the ford factory locations and they are terrible. Being such a small shop they dont stock any high end items. Its all special order.
> Im swapping my amps and adding a 3rd and the utopia tbe tweets. I know i like those amd those pods they come with are perfect for someone like me who will move tweeters around forever until im happy. They are helping me a lot with thr amp amd install so its not that big of a deal but i domt imagine selling oem gb tweeters will be easy. Most here go for other options. I should have.
> My response isnt bad but its all kinds of reflected on one side and not the other.
> Why ford chose the pillars at the windsheild instead of firing up at the windsheild from in the dadh is beyond me.


What model / year Ford ? What are you using for your source?


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## Naptownsoldier1488 (Jul 9, 2016)

All so the gb25 on apillar needed a good bit more eq than my gb40s in my door run from 250hz lr4 to 3000 lr4


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## robtr8 (Dec 6, 2011)

That was my experience as well.


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