# Helix dsp pro 2 vs jl twk, a short comparison and review



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Having run a twk for a good year and installed the pro 2 today and spent the last several hours tuning it I figured I'd give you guys some hands on opinions between the 2.

Before I get too far the twk is no slouch. It has a lot of good things going for it.

It's actually MORE accurate than the helix.
It does freq, q and volume in hundredths compared the the helix which does tenths or in some cases whole numbers.
The twks software is also dead simple to use. You can manually adjust or click on a number and input whatever number you like. Want 82.13hz you've got it.
The helix can do this in some areas but it does weird things like ommiting everything past the decimal when you punch numbers in. Also it would not let me input negative numbers with the keyboard. Maybe I haven't figured it out but I found this strange.This makes tuning take much longer than I'm used to. 
For an every day driver wanting a solid tune with decent gear I'd recommend the twk in a heartbeat. 
The twk has always had a slight hiss in my trucks. Nothing horrible but there. 
What i do like about the helix.
It's powerful. The extra output is obvious and my gains had to be severely reduced.
I'm still running at least negative 10db on all channels of the helix. Next session I'll drop my gains even more and bring these levels up.
With the twk I had to really crank on it's output and have my gains at about 3/4s up to get everything flowing right. Huge improvement with the helix.
Now what I love about the helix.
It is sonically superior.
The clarity and depth of the helix is fantastic. Even using a stock radio as a source the sound of the helix is , idk , open. There is not a hint of noise. Just extremely clear music.
The twk can keep up in the dynamics department. Transients on the twk are really good. Some of it may be the tune but it's ability to go from really quiet to very loud quickly was something I liked a lot about the twk. The helix is just as good in this department. I'd say it's a toss up.
I miss the tun software for the twk but once my tune is settled in on the helix and I don't have to mess with it so much I believe it will be worth it. 
The clarity of the helix is worth the hassle alone.
I noticed it immediately. Basic ta and crossovers and I could already tell the helix was much cleaner. It almost sounded like I had completely changed my speakers. It was that obvious.
To keep things fair I dialed the helix in as close as humanly possible to my saved measurements from my twks latest tune and I have to say im pretty damned impressed. Hate the software but the helix itself is a great piece of gear.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

apparently you figured out your connection issue? nice




drop1 said:


> Also it would not let me input negative numbers with the keyboard. Maybe I haven't figured it out but I found this strange.


your doing something wrong. i can input negatives without a problem. what i do is click and drag to highlight the whole number, then just type "-2" or whatever, then use the arrow keys to go up or down to .25, .5, or .75.. you cannot type the decimals in




drop1 said:


> Hate the software but the helix itself is a great piece of gear.


as someone who has extensive time with both processors, once you really understand the helix software, it smashed the Tun software out of the park imo


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I had 2 issues off the bat. It wouldn't connect and once it did the drivers side was 10 times louder than the passenger.
That had me freaking out. Combing though the software, swapping rcas around to verify no faulty wiring. 
Turns out I bumped the high/low input switch on one side of the amp during install. It's always the last thing you check.

As far as input data I'm so used to just double clicking the box on the twk and inputting the numbers . 
It's so fast.


----------



## jasonedlee (Oct 16, 2016)

Wow thanks drop1. Never would've guessed there'd be a discernible difference in the sound.


----------



## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> ...your doing something wrong. i can input negatives without a problem. what i do is click and drag to highlight the whole number, then just type "-2" or whatever, then use the arrow keys to go up or down to .25, .5, or .75.. you cannot type the decimals in...


I was able to type decimals in for gain and q in the parametric eq this past weekend but it happens in two steps. Highlight and enter something like -2 and then highlight and do the decimal afterwards.


----------



## naiku (May 28, 2008)

drop1 said:


> Hate the software but the helix itself is a great piece of gear.


Very surprised to read you hate the software. In my experience the Helix software is the best out there currently. The software on my MiniDSP 8-12 does not compare, don't get me wrong the MiniDSP software is fine, but the Helix is better. 



Dan750iL said:


> I was able to type decimals in for gain and q in the parametric eq this past weekend but it happens in two steps. Highlight and enter something like -2 and then highlight and do the decimal afterwards.


If I remember correctly that's what I had to do with the Helix as well. Kind of odd at first, but you quickly get used to it.


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> as someone who has extensive time with both processors, once you really understand the helix software, it smashed the Tun software out of the park imo


agree. i tuned a car w/ a twk last week and found the software extremely...limiting.

*shrug*


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

benny z said:


> agree. i tuned a car w/ a twk last week and found the software extremely...limiting.
> 
> *shrug*


You and me both. Did a model x with one last week. Good processor, annoying software.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

Make feel even more excited, damn I should of got express post now!!! Nxa. 2week W8. 

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Ok the Helix is better but is it 2x the price better?


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DC/Hertz said:


> Ok the Helix is better but is it 2x the price better?


It definitely has over 2x the flexibility...

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

I actually hate the twk software, my buddy uses one and I hate it. Helix software is super easy to use imo. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

Lol music to my ears. 

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Agree with most people's impressions here. I think that the TwK is probably perfect for the majority of JL Audio's target market, which is the for the majority of the general public/car audio _enthusiast_ installs. But for the true high-end SQ tweaker, the Helix is just way more capable, and flexible. Just having those 2 extra outputs available is huge for me. Now anything with "just" 8 outputs seems extremely limiting, ha.

And I don't think that I'll ever be a fan of the Helix Director Remote (or its finicky DIN connector). But short of not being able to tune even just a few parameters via the Director remote, it offers 95% of the "post tune" functionality that we generally _need_ from this type of remote. It's mostly the UI/touchscreen display that irks me.

On the TwK, once you have everything fairly well dialed-in, I can appreciate the small size and simplicity of its remote knob in many ways.

For its target market, I think JL's M.O. is to keep it "fairly simple" and not too overwhelming for the vast majority of users. The TwK is plenty powerful, but not to the extreme detail or advanced adjust-ability that the Helix units are. For that reason, I don't think JL are as willing to incorporate most of the more specific, specialized, or "esoteric" features that Audiotec-Fischer is willing to implement.

Just my .02


----------



## Cpaguy101 (Sep 9, 2017)

Can I ask a dump questions here, I am in So Cal getting ready to do my install. I have a 2016 chevy Silverado that has door chimes, blue tooth, backup sensors that every shop tells me that the Audio Control - DM 810 is the only (and I mean only) processor to keep the factory sound levels the same without having it amplified in my car. Meaning that the sounds would be noticeably louder due to installing the Audio Control. Fast forward I had another shop tell me the Audison Bit Ten D is the only way to go. But recently I had with the help of Skizer recommended another installer who said the Helix is great, when I recommended the Helix to the shop that wants to use the Audio Control, they said the Helix is great but probably to advanced for my system and unnecessary. I have also looked at the JL TWK and Fix, but can the JL or Helix keep my stock factory sounds the same level? I am keeping my stock head unit, man I am so lost and just want to pic and EQ and get this thing installed. 

2016 Chevy Silverado
Hertz Millie Legend 1650.3 Front speakers with Tweeters
Hertz Millie MPX 165.3 rear speakers
Audison Quattro Amp for speakers
JL Audio 10tw3 sub in stack fab box with JL HD 500/1 amp

Just need a EQ that can work great and keep factory sound levels exactly the same. 
Sorry to hijack the thread.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

If someone says its "to advanced for your system" that actually means "it's to advanced for me and I dont know how to tune anyway" and the reason them and another shop are saying their choices are the only way to go translates into "I don't carry it so I wont make any money". The audiocontrols only plus is that it does have some nice integration features, but that's about it.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Or it could be to advanced because he's using passives. Maybe.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DC/Hertz said:


> Or it could be to advanced because he's using passives. Maybe.


That changes nothing.. That actually makes a stronger argument for the helix. All pass filters to help fix phase issues at the crossover points. On top of that, you still want left/right eq which the AC doesnt have

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Jl has l/r


----------



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

DC/Hertz said:


> Jl has l/r




It does, but you can't "link" them to make overall adjustments once you do left/right. That's what I found frustrating...

I ended up doing left/right eq to achieve an equal response, then fine tuned the overall combined curve with the customer's head unit EQ.


----------



## Cpaguy101 (Sep 9, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> If someone says its "to advanced for your system" that actually means "it's to advanced for me and I dont know how to tune anyway" and the reason them and another shop are saying their choices are the only way to go translates into "I don't carry it so I wont make any money". The audiocontrols only plus is that it does have some nice integration features, but that's about it.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


Thanks for the responses, SkizeR, I appreciate all your help!


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

drop1 said:


> Having run a twk for a good year and installed the pro 2 today and spent the last several hours tuning it I figured I'd give you guys some hands on opinions between the 2.
> 
> Before I get too far the twk is no slouch. It has a lot of good things going for it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, I will pass on the JL piece just based on the hiss,I can’t stand noise period. I’m still waiting on the new DSP’s to come out in 2018. Alpines and a couple others before making my decision. The DSR1 was promising but has a few bugs, other than that there is the stand alone Maestro AR piece but only works with the Kenwood dsp amps, Audison Bit amps/dsp and the Audison stand alone dsp Bit Nove, and the Audio control DM608, 610 in April which I might look into. Everyone on here seems to like the Helix the best, and I know my Fiio X5iii I can go digital to it but I think I would still prefer going auxiliary in and using the Fiio X5iii dac since it’s is a better DAC. But will see in the next 3 months, this will be my last thing I do in my new system. I have a brand new VRX 240.6 that has been sitting in a spare room that I have been wanting to use for the Hertz Mille mid and tweeter and then I might run the woofers with my LRX at 260 watts or Mosconi AS I have too many amps lying around lol Anyways the Helix is on top of my list so far.


----------



## bassfreak (Apr 11, 2007)

HOIRiIZON said:


> Thanks for the info, I will pass on the JL piece just based on the hiss,I can’t stand noise period. I’m still waiting on the new DSP’s to come out in 2018. Alpines and a couple others before making my decision. The DSR1 was promising but has a few bugs, other than that there is the stand alone Maestro AR piece but only works with the Kenwood dsp amps, Audison Bit amps/dsp and the Audison stand alone dsp Bit Nove, and the Audio control DM608, 610 in April which I might look into. Everyone on here seems to like the Helix the best, and I know my Fiio X5iii I can go digital to it but I think I would still prefer going auxiliary in and using the Fiio X5iii dac since it’s is a better DAC. But will see in the next 3 months, this will be my last thing I do in my new system. I have a brand new VRX 240.6 that has been sitting in a spare room that I have been wanting to use for the Hertz Mille mid and tweeter and then I might run the woofers with my LRX at 260 watts or Mosconi AS I have too many amps lying around lol Anyways the Helix is on top of my list so far.


i have ZERO noise. i mean ZERO. i have 4 amps

i have a PG xenon 400.2 bridged per midbass and 2 100.2s bridged per tweeter. i also have a vital power 700.1 for the woofers. 0 i repeat ZERO noise.


----------



## bassfreak (Apr 11, 2007)

drop1 said:


> Having run a twk for a good year and installed the pro 2 today and spent the last several hours tuning it I figured I'd give you guys some hands on opinions between the 2.
> 
> Before I get too far the twk is no slouch. It has a lot of good things going for it.
> 
> ...


i have my input of 1.4 volts. the output on the deck is 5 volts but my gains are not past 1/4 on the amps and i don't go past 34 of 40 my SLA(source level adjustment) is +2 but its not that it needs to be. i have ZERO noise.
even hte lower recordings are stupid loud for a 2way setup. the 0DB recording i cant go past 29 without it getting uncomfortable. 
Im not going to say the twk is the best. its a great budget tool but its been glitch free and easy as fawk to tune with,
with that being said my next DSP is ARC


----------



## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

I own two Twk’s and a Fix 86. I’ve demoed the AudioControl and Helix software too. I also bought, tried, and returned a DSR1. In my opinion the DSR1 was frustrating to program and didn’t sound as good as my twk88 (could be me though) . I found the Helix software unintuitive and the AudioControl software very limited in tuning compared to every other. I do not have any hiss or noise floor issues with both my JL TwK DSP’s in either vehicle so that one is a mystery to me. I’ve also owned an AudioControl DQ61 with 8 volt outputs and Have an AudioControl EQX in my Sienna with 8 + volt outputs. Most head units only put out 4 volts rms, Mini DSP up until recently just 2 Volts, and so on. In my opinion if you have good amplifiers with high quality shielded RCA that is properly installed than you shouldn’t have any hiss with any setup. Yes the high voltage can help overcome this in an installation that isn’t great or has some compromises but you don’t have to pay for it with a DSP that puts out 8 volts.

The Twk 88 isn’t the top of the line DSP out there. What it is, is the one of the best DSP’s out there for $425. It offers very powerful tuning abilities with a simple to use interface and I love the simple control knob much like the one from AudioControl. I can make a change on my laptop at work, get in my truck and load it in minutes, and be on my way quickly. I can also toggle between two tunes to compare them with that knob and hear the difference at my will on my drive home. It’s sofeware is awesome and well designed once you get used to it. With REW and a microphone I can make a meh sounding system sound awesome. The seperate factory DSP like the Fix 82 and fixe 86 is a good idea. You also have to be careful with which sofeware setup in tuN you are using. There are three basic levels depending on your skill and knowledge and each one unlocks more capabilities as you advance up the ladder of capability. You could be in advanced mode and think it’s limited when in fact you should be in expert mode.

Lastly to the op saying you can hear a noticeable difference, I will put out there that A&B testing with different input voltages can fool you into thinking that. You would have to reset your amplifier gains exactly the same. The dynamic range on the amplifiers will not be the same if you do not carefully make them identical, tricking you into thinking it’s the DSP, when in fact it’s the amplifier tuning relative to input gains. This happened to me when I switched my AudioControl EQX for my TwK. I actually thought the EQX sounded better! I started to think it was an analog vs digital signal thing, which when I look back now is laughable. Once I figured this out and got good with tuning with REW I realized it was my installation. 

There is also another possibility too. The human brain is horribly unreliable when you do A&B testing knowing which device it’s listening to. You already have it in your head that you paid much more for the Helix so it must be much better sounding. Your brain is expecting this because otherwise you will be disappointed in the Helix. Your brain can trick you there especially if the Helix is putting out a stronger signal to your amplifiers making the volume at the same position louder and driving more watts and dynamic range to your speakers. This is why the placebo effect in the medical field is so real.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

V8toilet said:


> I own two Twk’s and a Fix 86. I’ve demoed the AudioControl and Helix software too. I also bought, tried, and returned a DSR1. In my opinion the DSR1 was frustrating to program and didn’t sound as good as my twk88 (could be me though) . I found the Helix software unintuitive and the AudioControl software very limited in tuning compared to every other. I do not have any hiss or noise floor issues with both my JL TwK DSP’s in either vehicle so that one is a mystery to me. I’ve also owned an AudioControl DQ61 with 8 volt outputs and Have an AudioControl EQX in my Sienna with 8 + volt outputs. Most head units only put out 4 volts rms, Mini DSP up until recently just 2 Volts, and so on. In my opinion if you have good amplifiers with high quality shielded RCA that is properly installed than you shouldn’t have any hiss with any setup. Yes the high voltage can help overcome this in an installation that isn’t great or has some compromises but you don’t have to pay for it with a DSP that puts out 8 volts.
> 
> The Twk 88 isn’t the top of the line DSP out there. What it is, is the one of the best DSP’s out there for $425. It offers very powerful tuning abilities with a simple to use interface and I love the simple control knob much like the one from AudioControl. I can make a change on my laptop at work, get in my truck and load it in minutes, and be on my way quickly. I can also toggle between two tunes to compare them with that knob and hear the difference at my will on my drive home. It’s sofeware is awesome and well designed once you get used to it. With REW and a microphone I can make a meh sounding system sound awesome. The seperate factory DSP like the Fix 82 and fixe 86 is a good idea. You also have to be careful with which sofeware setup in tuN you are using. There are three basic levels depending on your skill and knowledge and each one unlocks more capabilities as you advance up the ladder of capability. You could be in advanced mode and think it’s limited when in fact you should be in expert mode.
> 
> ...


I'm well aware of the placibo effect.
This wasn't that. The helix IS cleaner. Some people may not be able to hear it but the helix has smoother filters as well.
If you can't hear the difference between an average filter and a super smooth one it's unlikely you'll hear the quality differences between the 2 processors.
I'll be the first to admit it's absolutely negligible for most almost everyone but if you know what you are listening for it is present. Driving down the road, forget it. Either will sound just as good.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

bassfreak said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > Having run a twk for a good year and installed the pro 2 today and spent the last several hours tuning it I figured I'd give you guys some hands on opinions between the 2.
> ...


I'm surprised you've got yours set to 1.4v with 5 v pre outs. I played with the voltage a good bit and pushing it that far off balance made the signal really hot, in a bad way. Yes it would get LOUD, but it didn't sound good to me. Almost sounded like it was being compressed to hell and back.


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

bassfreak said:


> i have ZERO noise. i mean ZERO. i have 4 amps
> 
> i have a PG xenon 400.2 bridged per midbass and 2 100.2s bridged per tweeter. i also have a vital power 700.1 for the woofers. 0 i repeat ZERO noise.


I have only heard two of these earlier today, and they never had any noise. One was tuned and sounded good but nothing spectacular, they had JL audio XD amps all around, and two JL 10W3’s in a 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee and the other same system in a Jeep Cherokee. But the one that was tuned was only the 4th one he tuned so I don’t think he was an expert. He said he liked his Audison Bit One better for sound but liked the JL for simplicity, he also said he liked the DRC on the Bit one. I heard his car with the Bit one and it did sound better but then again it had higher end everything in it. I’m in Canada so price on JL is expensive because of the exchange rate. But I don’t think any DSP is going to give everyone on here exactly all the options they want. Just pick what brand you like best.


----------



## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

When I say noise I'm really not complaining. I'm being particular. As in if I lean forward with the music paused I can hear a VERY slight hiss from the tweeters. Music on there's no way anyone could hear it. Or even with the engine running.


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

drop1 said:


> When I say noise I'm really not complaining. I'm being particular. As in if I lean forward with the music paused I can hear a VERY slight hiss from the tweeters. Music on there's no way anyone could hear it. Or even with the engine running.


You shouldn’t have any hiss whatsoever though, but it’s strange that just swapping from one DSP to another it went away.


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

drop1 said:


> bassfreak said:
> 
> 
> > drop1 said:
> ...


 I use next to no gain on the amp. This simply increases the output voltage of the DSP. Which is what you want. It's output is going to be more linear than the amps input section. The CD player never comes close to full output lowering any chance of noise via the head unit.


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

HOIRiIZON said:


> drop1 said:
> 
> 
> > When I say noise I'm really not complaining. I'm being particular. As in if I lean forward with the music paused I can hear a VERY slight hiss from the tweeters. Music on there's no way anyone could hear it. Or even with the engine running.
> ...


might have better filters on the input side or a stronger output. Then again a bad connection will create noise.


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

I want you to know I'm thankful for your review I just think there's an underlying issue where the noise on the twk


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

HOIRiIZON said:


> Thanks for the info, I will pass on the JL piece just based on the hiss,I can’t stand noise period.


hates hiss, loves hertz/audison.. the irony.



HOIRiIZON said:


> Everyone on here seems to like the Helix the best, and I know my Fiio X5iii I can go digital to it but I think I would still prefer going auxiliary in and using the Fiio X5iii dac since it’s is a better DAC.


going analog into any processor is going to use the processors DAC as well, therefor making your previous DAC somewhat irrelevant. A single DAC that can handle the clock speeds of the digital input would be better.


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> hates hiss, loves hertz/audison.. the irony.
> 
> I have personally never heard any noise with Hertz/Audison but have read old articles, key word old articles on Bit One noise. But if something is installed wrong you can have noise to matter what product is used.
> 
> ...


Auxiliary in.

?
?
?
?


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

lol.


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> lol.


So you are saying that if you hook up an Astell & Kern DAP digital to any DSP it’s going to sound the same as a Fiio X5iii or iPad etc... ? If I go auxiliary in I will lose all tuning with any DSP?


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

HOIRiIZON said:


> So you are saying that if you hook up an Astell & Kern DAP digital to any DSP it’s going to sound the same as a Fiio X5iii or iPad etc... ? If I go auxiliary in I will lose all tuning with any DSP?


your supposedly smart. you should be able to figure it out


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> your supposedly smart. you should be able to figure it out


Well you’re the smartest guy on here, so I figured this would be an easy one for you.


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

Says he loves SQ uses a phone as a source.. smh


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

bassfreak85 said:


> Says he loves SQ uses a phone as a source.. smh


Who uses a phone as source?


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

HOIRiIZON said:


> bassfreak85 said:
> 
> 
> > Says he loves SQ uses a phone as a source.. smh
> ...


lots of idiots


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

bassfreak85 said:


> lots of idiots


So what do you think the best source is when using a DSP? I went from a modified iPod 5.5 to a Fiio X5iii and soon to a Astell & Kern Khan.


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

HOIRiIZON said:


> bassfreak85 said:
> 
> 
> > lots of idiots
> ...


I let the receiver do the work.
My recording bit rate range from 1000kbps to 2200 kbps.


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

bassfreak85 said:


> I let the receiver do the work.
> My recording bit rate range from 1000kbps to 2200 kbps.


I went the DAP route because the signal to noise ratio destroys all head units ever created for car audio. As far as I know nothing is over 120 for head units.


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

HOIRiIZON said:


> bassfreak85 said:
> 
> 
> > I let the receiver do the work.
> ...


Not only do I doubt its 120 I doubt its a weighted and anything over 90a weighted you will never hear.


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

bassfreak85 said:


> Not only do I doubt its 120 I doubt its a weighted and anything over 90a weighted you will never hear.


It’s rated the same as the decks like Pioneer PRS99 which is 115 db (1khz) Sony’s Rsx-gs9 is 117 db (1khz) which is the highest. FIIO X5III 120 db.

Also the unit I just ordered is 116 unbalance, 117 balanced Astell & Kern Khann specs in link. https://us.astellnkern.com/products/kann


----------



## SnakeOil (Jan 4, 2018)

I use a phone for most music. It’s perfectly fine. 10 years ago, not so much.


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

SnakeOil said:


> I use a phone for most music. It’s perfectly fine. 10 years ago, not so much.


I guess it depends on what your idea of perfectly fine is lol


----------



## SnakeOil (Jan 4, 2018)

I’ve got a pretty good ear. And I’m a realist. It’s a car. Not a built home theater. 
I tried to pick CD vs 320kb and I can’t. 
So yeah, for me it’s perfectly fine.


----------



## bassfreak (Apr 11, 2007)

HOIRiIZON said:


> It’s rated the same as the decks like Pioneer PRS99 which is 115 db (1khz) Sony’s Rsx-gs9 is 117 db (1khz) which is the highest. FIIO X5III 120 db.
> 
> Also the unit I just ordered is 116 unbalance, 117 balanced Astell & Kern Khann specs in link. https://us.astellnkern.com/products/kann


waste of money. matter fact ill go ahead and call you foolish because you amps SN is probably no higher than 90DB A weighted. what you are doing is like chasing a she male. it looks good but you getting ****ed in the end..


----------



## bassfreak (Apr 11, 2007)

SnakeOil said:


> I use a phone for most music. It’s perfectly fine. 10 years ago, not so much.


i'm not going to comment. Snakeoil


----------



## SnakeOil (Jan 4, 2018)

bassfreak said:


> i'm not going to comment. Snakeoil


I’ve lost track of the times folks would brag about being golden ears. When they where tested they couldn’t do any better then a guess when the music is playing off a download.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

a digital source is a digital source. doesnt matter if its the cheapest phone, or most expensive DAP. why is that hard to understand?


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> a digital source is a digital source. doesnt matter if its the cheapest phone, or most expensive DAP. why is that hard to understand?


So you think the cheap phone is fine huh.


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

SnakeOil said:


> bassfreak said:
> 
> 
> > i'm not going to comment. Snakeoil
> ...


 you must not know much about physics correct?
If we go back to the fundamental behavior of observation we understand that not only that behavior can be mutilated but the mind is also impacted.
In quantinum physics it's called Quantum Behavior.
If a person get 8 of 10 right more than once in a blind test there is no doubt he can hear a difference. Even 6 of 10 two times.


----------



## SnakeOil (Jan 4, 2018)

Oh I get it. But the truth is most that say they can actually can not in the real world.


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

SnakeOil said:


> Oh I get it. But the truth is most that say they can actually can not in the real world.


I'll be honest with you. If you listen to live and play real music I'd be inclined to say you more than likely hear the difference between 16 and 24bit. Something about music is proven to stimulate so much of the brain it's beyond what model science can measure.


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

bassfreak said:


> waste of money. matter fact ill go ahead and call you foolish because you amps SN is probably no higher than 90DB A weighted. what you are doing is like chasing a she male. it looks good but you getting ****ed in the end..


That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard, and if you ever tried a decent DAP on your audio system you can here the difference as soon as you hit play. But then again by your name I’m sure you have probably lost your hearing and couldn’t tell the difference between 8 track and 24-192 lol. This guys comments about the guy using a phone as source and then makes this comment lmao.


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> a digital source is a digital source. doesnt matter if its the cheapest phone, or most expensive DAP. why is that hard to understand?


If that was the case you wouldn’t be swapping out your DAP for the Sony rsx-gs9. Since your going to your Helix via optical.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

HOIRiIZON said:


> If that was the case you wouldn’t be swapping out your DAP for the Sony rsx-gs9. Since your going to your Helix via optical.


Please find my post where I said..

1) I was swapping to gain sq from having a different source

2) I would be using optical out of the Sony 



Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

bassfreak85 said:


> So you think the cheap phone is fine huh.


Depends. Is it putting out digital via usb and you have let's say a helix with a sub hec card? Then yes, it's fine. The phone is just acting as storage. Nothing more.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

SnakeOil said:


> Oh I get it. But the truth is most that say they can actually can not in the real world.


If you’re going analog you can hear a major difference from an iPhone to say iPod 5.5, night and day difference. Then go from that to a Fiio X5iii like I did analog and I was like wow, this is that good!! For anyone that has never used a DAP I recommend it 150 %!!


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> Please find my post where I said..
> 
> 1) I was swapping to gain sq from having a different source
> 
> ...


Lol this guy still cracks me up after I have been off this site for like 8 months. Hmmmmm go look at your new build, and you also made the comment to me, that you wouldn’t be using the Fiio X5iii for long lol


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

HOIRiIZON said:


> Lol this guy still cracks me up after I have been off this site for like 8 months. Hmmmmm go look at your new build, and you also made the comment to me, that you wouldn’t be using the Fiio X5iii for long lol


I shouldn't be wasting my time replying to you, but holy **** you are dense.

1) for the fifth(?) time, that is not my car.

2a) where in that comment did I say that I would be using optical out

2b) where in that comment did I say I was planning that change to gain any sort of sound quality. 

If you can quote any of my posts that say this I will gladly apologize and say your right 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> bassfreak85 said:
> 
> 
> > So you think the cheap phone is fine huh.
> ...


 then again I have alot of tuning options with my cd player and your phone isn't going to do that very well.


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> I shouldn't be wasting my time replying to you, but holy **** you are dense.
> 
> 1) for the fifth(?) time, that is not my car.
> 
> ...


Here is what you told me the other day...don't remember anyone telling me to get a fiio. Regardless, it's being replaced soon. 

Lol Skizer lay off the funny stuff.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

HOIRiIZON said:


> Here is what you told me the other day...don't remember anyone telling me to get a fiio. Regardless, it's being replaced soon.
> 
> Lol Skizer lay off the funny stuff.


That doesn't answer any of my questions though...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> That doesn't answer any of my questions though...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Skizer how are you running your Fiio X5iii to your Helix DSP?


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

HOIRiIZON said:


> Skizer how are you running your Fiio X5iii to your Helix DSP?


That’s what I thought no answer from him lol


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

SkizeR said:


> hates hiss, loves hertz/audison.. the irony.
> 
> 
> 
> going analog into any processor is going to use the processors DAC as well, therefor making your previous DAC somewhat irrelevant. A single DAC that can handle the clock speeds of the digital input would be better.


Well after spending a week with the Astell & Kern DAP in my vehicle I can say that it sounds better than my Fiio X5iii, both coax and analog. Sounds are more detailed such as the highs, mids, midbass is more accurate as well as the bass sounds so much better. So there goes that theory if yours. 

This was installed in two Jeep Grand Cherokee’s and the only difference was my brother has all Hertz Mille’s and I have all Audio Frog GB’s. Same amps and same DSP Helix. But thanks for trying to educate my brother.


----------



## lbp775 (Jul 7, 2011)

HOIRiIZON said:


> Well after spending a week with the Astell & Kern DAP in my vehicle I can say that it sounds better than my Fiio X5iii, both coax and analog. Sounds are more detailed such as the highs, mids, midbass is more accurate as well as the bass sounds so much better. So there goes that theory if yours.
> 
> This was installed in two Jeep Grand Cherokee’s and the only difference was my brother has all Hertz Mille’s and I have all Audio Frog GB’s. Same amps and same DSP Helix. But thanks for trying to educate my brother.


I've always heard, "digital was digital". Shouldn't 1's and 0's coming out of one device be the same an 1's and 0's coming out of another?


----------



## HOIRiIZON (Apr 3, 2016)

Well if you take a home receiver for example, and hook up your PS4PRO, XboxOne x, Oppo, Cambridge Blu Ray players through digital do they all sound the same? I have all of these and they all have a different sound. 

Going through a DSP if your theory was right wouldn’t you get the exact EQ curve? If what your saying was 100% true? 

Are you saying a $100 player, playing the exact same song that a 3k player is playing will be 100% as good? We all know if going digital it will bypass the players DAC, but there is more to it than that. 

If what your saying was 100% true then why does the 3k DAP sound different than the $400 DAP? Also going analog was big time noticeable. Not just my ears, the other three installers, and everyone that heard it. Everyone I know that heard my system thought I bought new amps or changed my speakers. 

I’m a big believer in one amp sounds different from another amp at equal watts, but I’m not going to debate that again on here. 

Anyways I was just defending my brother that was on my tag in the past. I rarely come on here, and the only reason I made the account a long time ago was for my brother because he wanted to buy something on here he seen that wasn’t available were we are at. 

I really don’t value too many people’s opinions on here, after all sound, and what’s sounds better than something else is after all just an opinion.


----------



## LoudResidence (Feb 4, 2020)

Just go the helix dsp pro mk2. You'll love it in everyway and you'll, by far, end up with the greatest sound no matter what. You can even tune so good lower end speakers sound amazing. After installing, using, and programming all different dsp's it always comes down to the helix dsp pro mk2


----------



## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

LoudResidence said:


> Just go the helix dsp pro mk2. You'll love it in everyway and you'll, by far, end up with the greatest sound no matter what. You can even tune so good lower end speakers sound amazing. After installing, using, and programming all different dsp's it always comes down to the helix dsp pro mk2


Dude this thread is almost 2 years old! Certainly we have equipment available now that we didn't then.


----------



## Loud Residence (Feb 7, 2020)

I really think the helix dsp ultra is the best but it is expensive. The helix mk2 is still the best as opposed to other brands. The bit one hd is good $1200 though. The focal dsp is also up there.


----------



## Driftdad541 (Aug 8, 2019)

Late a.f. to the party but what about Mosconi DSP or Zapco? How do these compare to the Helix as far as tuneability, overall SQ, features and noise level? I've been mulling over DSP's for months now. I see that a lot of top competitors in iasca are running either Zapco, Mosconi or the Helix. I like JL but I'm also in my 40's and have been out of the game for a while. I see a lot of TWK's up for sale. I take that as a sign that it could be better


----------



## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

I love the Tun software and think it’s very enthusiast friendly and plenty powerful enough to get a good solid three way with sub tune. It’s even better incorporated into the Vxi amplifiers. The Helix is untimely more powerful and also with that comes more to know and many on this forum get that upgrade-itis bug and always have to get the best that’s out there. Sometimes that’s good and sometimes that gets you in trouble. I guess you have to know what you specifically want and what your abilities are before you decide but don’t be afraid of the JL DSP.


----------



## Clvol1255 (Aug 6, 2020)

I’m a huge fan of my twk 88 but all the helix hype and fanboys on here do i admit have me curious whether or not i should just try out a helix dsp. That said i think the JL twk 88 is a phenomenal dsp and its worked some magic in my system


----------



## Driftdad541 (Aug 8, 2019)

The TWK seems like a good start but I think I'm going to save for the Helix. I've come this far already after all. I'm getting married in October. After that's in the books, it's go time on the project car


----------



## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Driftdad541 said:


> I'm getting married in October. After that's in the books, it's go time on the project car


Better go fast because after marriage comes kids and when that happens it is game over for car audio, lol. Seriously though congrats on the marriage.


----------



## Driftdad541 (Aug 8, 2019)

This is my second marriage actually. Lucky for us, our kids are grown. We're done having kids and yes the kids are expensive lol. So are women. My ex wife loved shopping. The new one is more frugal. Much easier on my wallet 😉


----------

