# A quick project: glass, bamboo, and Vifa



## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

Hello all! I've been ignoring my speaker projects for too long, so hopefully this will inspire me to finish some. 

I've had a couple of small Vifa fullrange drivers sitting around for a while now, with the intention of mounting them in some sort of glass enclosures (originally I had planned to use pint glasses, which never worked out). While at Wallyworld, I found some hurricane glasses that looked like they were the perfect size, and a decent thickness.

I also recently acquired some awesome bamboo plywood from a display that was being trashed at work. I decided to use up one of the smaller pieces for this project. I have about 3/4 of a sheet in total. I will probably do some sort of translam monitors or something with it.

I'll have to take it out and get a shot or two soon, but this is my bamboo stash at the moment:











I cut out two 4" discs, a little off center to give them a flat base to sit on.





































Due to not being perfectly matching and the precision limitations of my circle jig, I wasn't able to get a perfectly snug fit, which led me to go with gorilla glue to attach the baffles to the glasses. Obviously, this left me with a somewhat messy and ugly aspect to the finished speaker. I may wind up doing a second set, perhaps with some small trim rings on the outside and inside to hide the glue (since there does not seem to be any alternatives to the Gorilla Glue).






















I wound up drilling two holes for the speaker wires, but later realized I could've had a cleaner look with a single hole. This is a main reason behind doing a second set, as I'm not happy with the way the holes in the back. It was a sort of a rushed job, as I was hoping to finish them during my few days off.




















All in all, I am happy with how they turned out. They're great for near-field computer/ipod use, and perform about how I expected given reviews for this particuar driver (I knew they weren't great for the price, but the back end just looks so cool) I figured out some important details, which will allow me to (hopefully) perfect the second set.


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

Second set is now underway. These went much more smoothly, as I think I have the cutting process down.

I'm going with a recess on these, so I started out by cutting them both out. It was much easier to work with the large piece, so most of the detail work was done first.











Then the back cutouts.











I used some scrap MDF to test a fix for getting a snug fit and cleaning up that inside edge. I'll be gluing some felt to the inside edge and using epoxy only on the edge of the glass. Hopefully this will wind up looking good. Anything will probably look better than the Gorilla Glue did.











A snug fit with enough room for glue and getting the glass down in without any bunching.











I ran most of the driver cutout from behind to make sure it'll look clean inside.











And the first side is out! I had a bit of tearout on the bottom of this side, but I have the chip and I'll be gluing it back in when I get a chance.





























I had a bit of an issue when cutting out the second ring, in that I either placed the peg in the wrong hole or that my router's plunge has far more play than I imagined. Luckily I was already thinking about doing a slight roundover on the front and had enough room. I tested on some scrap and didn't have any issues with tearout. I think it looks much more like a finished product with the roundover. You can still see a bit of the smaller cut, but I will hand sand that out.




















I still have to sand the rings down, find some suitable felt (the stuff I have now is PartsExpress box carpet that isn't very nice to work with), glue that in, sand, glue, and clamp the glass, and then drill out the wire hole in the glass. I'm really liking how quickly these progress, although I'm sure the later sets will take a bit more time.


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)




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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)




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## JediMentality (May 7, 2008)

I'm intrigued. Nice score on the wood and good router skills. Keep it up.


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

JediMentality said:


> I'm intrigued. Nice score on the wood and good router skills. Keep it up.


Thanks! My router is my baby. 

I am still trying to find some audio cable that will suit my needs (all of my computer speakers lately have been using 3.5mm cables cut in half, but I am having trouble finding some that will fit the holes that I have drilled), so I have yet another set that I have started on. These have been floating around in my head for a while, and I was going to do them in translam, but this wound up working better than I could've hoped. I'll let the pics speak for themselves.

The stencil and concept











Stencil for nostrils





































































Mmmm.... sandwichy


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

Success!


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

Getting closer. A couple of days ago I rid the roundovers and sanded them briefly. Since I have one of them with all of the recesses done, I cut the mounting holes to mock everything up. The other is stuck in limbo because I can't quite decide what to do. One of my glasses is 1/8" shorter than the other 3, so I think I am just going to have to cut the recess for the glass a little shallower, because I cannot find any more of them in the same thickness.

Other than that, things are moving smoothly. I have felt in on the cut side and they look pretty damn good assembled.


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## 808Munkyeee (Jun 6, 2011)

cherry


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm pretty much at a stopping point with these. I have the screw holes to drill out, but that's about it until I get some new drill bits.











The next set that I'll be working on in the meantime (this is the last stretch of summer before I'm back in school) is once again, a little different.

I'm working with NS3s again this time, and the glass I'll be using is a thick fishbowl vase. The tops are cut flat and they are pretty thick.

The basic idea











I'll be using a ring as a base that will allow them to be swiveled/aimed.











I also have a 5.25" Tangband neo sub that I will be using (the vase size was perfect and I couldn't pass it up). I just need to find a 2.1 system to scavenge.











TThe sub will be downfired, hopefully with the amp board in the vacant space of the larger vase. We'll see what I can come up with. Worst case, I could just use a cheap Lepai 2.1 amp.











Onto the build. I start with a disc the size of the flat surface of the top. I then cut a slightly larger disc, which will sit on top of the smaller one, with the driver in between.


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

I cut a recess the width of the smaller disc, and then chamfered the edge to fit the contour of the glass and to get rid of the gap. The smaller disc is cut into a ring to fit the driver.

























































I also have a new addition to the shop that has made things a bit easier.


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Interesting projects... inspiring me to finally do something the MarkAudio CHR70's I've had laying around.


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

cool, you are having a good time there!


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

Updates!

It's hot as balls right now, so I haven't had much time to work on these, but I stuck it out today and made a good bit of progress.

I am still waiting on a lot of parts (drill bits, wire, plugs), so I will be doing a lot of cutting in the meantime (hopefully getting everything done together). I also ordered a Lepai amp from PE. 

I think I am actually going to dam the glass with some clay, since submerging the entire thing will be a hassle with the drill press.

I started on the bamboo for this new set. I've started using a second pin to run the rings on the 1" roundover bit (it wants to spin the pieces when only using the center pin), and it helps having a piece underneath when finishing up the cut.

The roundover went well. A little burning but overall a clean cut. I wound up having to make a ghetto table for it (since it needs a really large hole for the bit) until I can make a more permanent one with plates/rails/etc.





























Routing out the back for the mounting ring.











How it'll sit on the glass




















I put a little roundover on the back edge too to clean it up.











While routing out the back of the second one, the stop worked its way loose and i plunged all the way through the face. Sucks to lose some more wood, but thee things happen.











Center cut out, still has to be rounded over


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

A few better shots of the finished ring


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

I tried doing this a few times as I build and design my own speakers, but ran into one serious fundamental issue. 

Cones produce back waves as well as front waves that come out of the cone that you hear. In normal sealed boxes, these back waves are trapped inside the box. 

If 1/4 of the wavelength of a given frequency is larger than the largest dimension in the speaker enclosure, that frequency will be absorbed in the box as it has nowhere to go. However, if it is smaller, it will start bouncing around inside the enclosure and eventually find its way back into the cone, producing output. Whenever a cone produces output that it is not instructed to by the amplifier, its called distortion. 

You might not realize it, but playing some of these speakers, you'll notice a harshness to them in the low midrange. At lower volumes, they don't sound particularly clean or clear (compared to a well built set), and at higher volumes, they will sound fatiguing to listen to for extended periods of time. You won't know why unless your ear is trained to hear this, but that's the distortion we're talking about. The way all speaker manufacturers and DIY builders resolve this is through the use of acoustic foam, fiberglass insulation, or polyfill, with the latter being a cheaper and much less effective alternative. The problem is, it can be difficult making a clear enclosure look good with some kind of sound absorption material inside. 

See the below:
Polycarbonate for speaker boxes? - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com

The problem is, this distortion can be measured with a good RTA setup. Just try to crank these up for a bit and listen for that distortion in the low midrange. It will sound like something is resonating that shouldn't be, almost like a buzzing. You'll know exactly what it is when you hear it. If you don't believe me, put a wad of fiberglass insulation in the back of one of those speakers and compare the two. If you didn't hear it before, you will now. 

Unfortunately, with clear enclosures, its impossible to make the speakers sound as good as they look for this reason. Sound absorption is a key element to a properly designed speaker. 

Of course, that's the technical side of it. Your woodworking skills on the other hand are to be commended.


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

I knew there would be limitations and drawbacks to the materials, but at this point I am focusing solely on aesthetics. I have built plenty of well designed/documented speakers, spending hours fiddling with placement, RTA graphs, crossover points, etc etc, and I never really felt like I gained anything from all of that time spent. I understand a lot of the science behind it, and I respect that, but I just don't have the patience to deal with it (at this point).

I grew up listening to badly copied cassettes, lossy mp3s, and crappy radios. Now that I am older, I find I don't really seem to care about the quality of sound reproduction anymore. I think I just felt that all of the technical aspects seemed to take all of the fun out of the process. In the end I just want to listen to music and build things.

I'm satisfied with the glass sets that I have fired up sofar, enough that I'll continue on them. Most of them will be used for low-level nearfield listening anyway.


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

Updates! I've been working on these off and on for the past week or so. Most of the cutting has been done, so now things are slowing down a bit while I test fit things, and work out details. I usually hate this part of a build, so hopefully I can keep up some momentum.

I have lots of shot that have been building up in my photobucket, so I'll start with those.

Mock up with one of the trim rings as a base (I wound up going with the same outer diameter for the bases as I used for the baffle rings, although I will probably use a slightly larger center cutout.





























Baffles and trim rings cut











I wound up using some scrap and the pins to make a ghetto handle for the workpieces as I run them on the big roundover.











Bases cut











The mounting rings needed a roundover on the inside to keep from blocking airflow, so I made this jig to route them.











Cutting screws to length




















Rounding over inside of trim rings, guide ring fit into recess in back


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

Testing different diameter bases











I matched the slight roundover on the backs of the bases too











After playing around with the glass bits for a while, I bit the bullet and redid the holes on the small set. They went pretty well- the clay dams held up and no water made it to the bamboo ring (epoxied to the glass).












While waiting for parts I also started on what will turn into a much larger project. I get to buy a new toy for it and will be doing some concrete work too, which is great because I have been looking to learn how to do concrete countertops for a while.

I've had a set of Vifa stuff laying around since I ran out of room for my quarter wave pipes, so I think I'm going to take a crack at some floorstanders. With my own twists of course.

I really like doing a demo piece before working on the final product. Even with mdf, I may start doing this, because there always seems to be little things that I would change or do differently.


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

And the completed demo piece. The whole thing has a nice balance when just held together by gravity. I will probably be playing around with some threaded rod on this one. And an interesting Ikea hack as well.











This was another idea that I had for them, but it would take another pair of small vases, which I don't have to spare at the moment. I still have time to change my mind, though.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

nicely done.

How do those Vifa NE full range drivers sound? I'm looking at the 95mm and 65mm drivers and they look good on paper but I'm not sure what to expect.


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

its_bacon12 said:


> nicely done.
> 
> How do those Vifa NE full range drivers sound? I'm looking at the 95mm and 65mm drivers and they look good on paper but I'm not sure what to expect.


With their current price point, I don't know if I would recommend them. I have the most experience with the NS3 as far as small full rangers go, and although they seem to have a cleaner upper end, I like the sound of he Auras (and heir price). I'm also choking them a bit with the enclosures, so who knows, they may outperform the Auras in a better box.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

I would be using the Vifas as a midrange unit from ~300 to 3k. I have no desire to use it below 300hz xover point.


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

Ugh. I want to work on these, but I am sick and it is way too hot outside. Still waiting on new wire to do low-impact stuff like soldering. Sigh...



its_bacon12 said:


> I would be using the Vifas as a midrange unit from ~300 to 3k. I have no desire to use it below 300hz xover point.


Then I would say go for it. The mid-upper range is great, not so much as a full ranger. Are you using any of the larger NE drivers?


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

No, thought about using the 8 in door but I'm wary they will not perform as expected in car because of how neo loses strength if high temperature.

Cars get hot. Neo doesn't like hot. So I don't generally use neo in car. I might make an exception in this case for the mids - not sure if I want to use the NE95 or W4-1337. The Ne95 is about 30mm smaller in diameter which is easier to accommodate but the W4 sounds SO good


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## 2chGUY (Feb 1, 2009)

its_bacon12 said:


> How do those Vifa NE full range drivers sound? I'm looking at the 95mm and 65mm drivers and they look good on paper but I'm not sure what to expect.


Not sure asking for a critical review on a driver being used in one of the worst possible enclosures is all that wise...

Just saying...


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## sirvent_95 (Feb 14, 2011)

Why do you feel this enclosure is poor? I don't think it's ideal, but I would imagine they would still perform well.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

its_bacon12 said:


> No, thought about using the 8 in door but I'm wary they will not perform as expected in car because of how neo loses strength if high temperature.
> 
> Cars get hot. Neo doesn't like hot. So I don't generally use neo in car. I might make an exception in this case for the mids - not sure if I want to use the NE95 or W4-1337. The Ne95 is about 30mm smaller in diameter which is easier to accommodate but the W4 sounds SO good


Don't most automotive tweeters use neo drivers anyway? The Massive RK6 component set takes a whole lot of power, and I can't imagine a tweeter as small as that one not being a neo driver. 

Unless you're referring strictly to mids and midbass. 



sirvent_95 said:


> Why do you feel this enclosure is poor? I don't think it's ideal, but I would imagine they would still perform well.


Forgive me if I'm not paying attention to a back story here, but if we're talking about these glass pods,

A. airspace is much too small to get any midbass output out of them, let alone real bass. 
B. there is no dampening inside the enclosure, such as acoustic foam, polyfill (the worst you can use), or fiberglass insulation. Take the longest dimension inside that enclosure. Then determine what the 1/4 of what frequency wavelength will fit inside that dimension. Any frequency above that point will bounce around inside the enclosure and reach the cone again, producing additional output not instructed by the amplifier, which is called distortion. As pretty as speakers may be, this kind of distortion is fatiguing to listen to for extended periods or at even slightly higher volumes. You may not be able to place your finger on it immediately, but you'll be able to point it out between a speaker that has some absorption material and one that doesn't.


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## sirvent_95 (Feb 14, 2011)

> Forgive me if I'm not paying attention to a back story here, but if we're talking about these glass pods,
> 
> A. airspace is much too small to get any midbass output out of them, let alone real bass.
> 
> B. there is no dampening inside the enclosure, such as acoustic foam, polyfill (the worst you can use), or fiberglass insulation. Take the longest dimension inside that enclosure. Then determine what the 1/4 of what frequency wavelength will fit inside that dimension. Any frequency above that point will bounce around inside the enclosure and reach the cone again, producing additional output not instructed by the amplifier, which is called distortion. As pretty as speakers may be, this kind of distortion is fatiguing to listen to for extended periods or at even slightly higher volumes. You may not be able to place your finger on it immediately, but you'll be able to point it out between a speaker that has some absorption material and one that doesn't.


All your reasons make perfect sense. I slapped my forehead once I read your reasoning. I guess I was too dazzled by his ingenuity to really evaluate the sonic characteristics.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

sirvent_95 said:


> All your reasons make perfect sense. I slapped my forehead once I read your reasoning. I guess I was too dazzled by his ingenuity to really evaluate the sonic characteristics.


Haha, as a speaker builder and designer, these are the first things I look at. I worry first about how to make them sound good, then how to make them look good, and more often than not, I can still make them look quite good. I don't like to compromise on sound. I like seeing peoples' jaws drop when they hear my speakers.


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## hempy (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm happy with them.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

hempy said:


> I'm happy with them.


So are people who buy $1500 BOSE systems, but that doesn't mean they sound good. 

That being said, at the end of the day, whether or not you're happy with them really is the only thing that matters. My comments were directed more toward others who may be contemplating building their own on the same design, or want to know what the shortfalls are.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Personally, I think these are AWESOME. I would make these if I had the skills (or knew someone who did).

What'd be a really cool idea is if you wee able to get smoked/tinted glass, that way you could put some black tinted polyfill type stuff in the enclosures, and some sort of finishing on the wood. I bet people would pay a lot of money for them if they sounded even OK and looked that good.


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## XtremeRevolution (Dec 3, 2010)

FAUEE said:


> Personally, I think these are AWESOME. I would make these if I had the skills (or knew someone who did).
> 
> What'd be a really cool idea is if you wee able to get smoked/tinted glass, that way you could put some black tinted polyfill type stuff in the enclosures, and some sort of finishing on the wood. I bet people would pay a lot of money for them if they sounded even OK and looked that good.


People would pay a lot of money either way. They don't even have to sound great. Look at BOSE. People pay thousands for speakers that sound and measure like complete crap, but can get loud and are EQ'd to hell in the perfectly staged demo rooms. The vast majority of people don't have ears that are trained to hear the difference between a good speaker and a bad speaker. The best speaker you think exists is only as good as the best speaker you've heard in your life.


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## gregory_ (Sep 7, 2011)

Very nice!


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