# What does MSRP mean to you?



## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

So... I had an amp fail for the second time in a matter of weeks- 

I began calling around for a JL HD 900/5.... Not one shop that I called had a 900/5 or any full range HD.. or HD for that matter...

"We can order you one" was the common reply.. to which I'd reply... can I listen to it before I buy it? and of course it was an all sales final thing.... 

Well... How much? full retail- or they would ramble off the price- full retail or within a few bucks of it....

So this begs the question... ARE DEALERS ENTITLED TO FULL RETAIL?

I say nope.... You are able to get full retail IMO if you can show me the product in a car... on a board or something along those lines... I can play with it... and then I can walk out the door with it...

if you have one to show me but not one I can leave with... I don't feel that deserves the full amount- Yes I know it's a high dollar Item to have laying around but you just ordered it and I had to wait...

If you can't show me one and I can't leave with one.... you take my money that day and place the order.... then hand the product over the counter and make 400+ bucks? yes you have to cut a check at the end of the month and maybe deal with me on a warranty- 

And yes I know you make nothing off the install.... and you have to keep the lights on but what sets you apart from the internet at that point?

I don't mind paying a decent markup for you ordering it and such- everyone's gotta eat. 

If I'm out of whack here I'd love to hear the other side...


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Are they a JL authorized dealer? For me that answer would make a slight difference. Not in that they deserve it but in that I would be willing to let them order it and pay the extra to be able to return it directly to them for warranty issues. If they are not autorized dealer and will be ordering it just like I would then charging a profit, for that I say no thanks. I have had this situation for a fish tank light actually and I just ordered it myself. No store herewas an autorized dealer for that company.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

they are in fact dealers-- at least one was... the other says they are but were not on jl's site.


I don't want to come off like they don't need to turn a profit... I would be more than happy to give them 100-150 bucks to order the product and hand it to me (not including the shipping to them)... 200 I wouldn't have been excited about but I would have paid it... to me that's a lot of coin for a check they would have already had to write... just bit larger...


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm not sure there is a lot of value is hearing an amp before hand, at least not a brand new one. Unless the shop has your same speakers how can you judge anything from it? You could even argue that you'd have to listen to your speakers in a similar install.

Having said that, msrp, to me, is a tad bit of marketing. Even on JL's site they list an msrp and then have it marked down from there. Some companies have a MAP (minimum advertised price) which is the lowest price an authorized dealer can sell an item for. Unless you are a dealer you won't know this price however. 

The last time I looked at a local shop for JL gear they charged full msrp. I was a sub at the time I looked. I'm guessing because of the popularity of that particular brand and customers will pay it. I bought mine on eBay NIB for for about 30% off


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Not sure how I posted it in this section... should have been in another forum... sorry- please move.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

pocket5s said:


> I'm not sure there is a lot of value is hearing an amp before hand, at least not a brand new one. Unless the shop has your same speakers how can you judge anything from it? You could even argue that you'd have to listen to your speakers in a similar install.
> 
> Having said that, msrp, to me, is a tad bit of marketing. Even on JL's site they list an msrp and then have it marked down from there. Some companies have a MAP (minimum advertised price) which is the lowest price an authorized dealer can sell an item for. Unless you are a dealer you won't know this price however.
> 
> The last time I looked at a local shop for JL gear they charged full msrp. I was a sub at the time I looked. I'm guessing because of the popularity of that particular brand and customers will pay it. I bought mine on eBay NIB for for about 30% off


If it's in a sound board you could a/b it.... maybe get an idea of how warm it runs-the way it clips- kinda like test driving a car before ya buy it.

I guess it sucks knowing what the markup on said items is...


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

I dont think ive ever paid retail on anything ever.. At least from what i can remember.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

turbo5upra said:


> If it's in a sound board you could a/b it.... maybe get an idea of how warm it runs-the way it clips- kinda like test driving a car before ya buy it.
> 
> I guess it sucks knowing what the markup on said items is...


Assuming they will let you run it clipped  as for heat that is a decent argument there. I did hear that the JL hd amps ran for 5 hours straight in one vehicle giving demoes before heat noticeably took an effect. And those amps are in a very enclosed space, 6 of them very tightly packaged, as in pretty much right on top of each other. 

I am a dealer in firearm accessories (magazines, optics, etc.) and some items have high markup and others don't, percentage wise. I used to work for a big online retailer and they stopped selling anything electronic related because the margins were so low. But each places a different value on that too. A shop should take care of warranty issues, etc. but not everyone places value on that, especially those that self install. 



SkizeR said:


> I dont think ive ever paid retail on anything ever.. At least from what i can remember.


I haven't in a very long time. I either buy used or online. I also assume the risk of doing so but it has served me fairly well so far, with only a couple of issues.


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## gravel (Jun 24, 2012)

Very good point to this thread. The way I do local vs internet purchasing decisions is close to what your thinking. If I can get a product for $100 online, I'll pay a local retailer $115 or so if he orders it for me, and maybe $125 if he's got it on the shelf. I want my good local shops to stay in business for sure, but I'm not paying full MSRP for a guy to place the order for me, not when I can eBay anything from my phone and usually have it in hand faster than the shop..

I bought an alpine amp recently for $410. Offered my local dealer $550 and was told that was less than his cost. So how can some guy on eBay survive selling stuff at a $140 loss??? Something just doesn't add up...


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

The marked down price on the JL site is the MAP pricing. Authorized dealers are not suppose to sell under MAP. Most will look past the MAP thing to make a sell.

On a HD900/5 dealers cost is going to be around $600.00 plus shipping, so another $15-$25. 

So the dealer has around $620 or so in that amp. So if the dealer sells you it at MAP profit is around $350-$379.

The reason dealers do not stock the more expensive amps is simple, cost. To have 2 in stock is $1200 tied up in 2 amps in the stock room. They have no clue when they will sell them. If a dealer buys two each of 750/1, 900/5, 600/4 that is about $3000 worth of product. One on the board one in the stock room. Now do this for all 3 to 4 brands you sell. On amps not even speakers you could have $8000-$10000 just in a single amp line from 3 to 4 brands. Do 2 amps lines from your brands and you could be looking at $15000-$20000. It is just not economically viable in today's market place.

Most dealers are scraping by now days. They make a living and pay the bills. They are not stashing large sums of money away in a retirement account some where. I have no clue why people think stereo shops are a money maker, they are not. Having buddies who own shops no way in hell would I ever open a shop in today's market. 

Now days dealers have to walk a very thin line on what they stock. Usually they stock only what they sell the most of. Everything else is by order only especially the more expensive stuff. 

The only problem with order stuff is people changing their minds. Credit cards are the worst, you would nto believe how many people walk in pay the dealer cost to order an item, then before it comes in do a charge back because they changed their mind and you never see them again. The dealer is stuck with an amp they have now purchased that they must now try and sell to someone else.

If end up selling the one on the board to a customer because you are out in the stock room they want even more of a discount.


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

pocket5s said:


> Some companies have a MAP (minimum advertised price) which is the lowest price an authorized dealer can sell an item for.


As you said, it's minimum *advertised* price. Dealers are not bound to sell at or above MAP, it's strictly an advertising limitation. Companies work around that all the time. See any shopping cart which allows coupon codes.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

^^^I know of several dealers the coupon code thing has really pissed off. I know several contacted JL about it, however since they meet MAP before the cart checkout where you can apply the code legally they are fine to do the code.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

I in no way think they are making a killing at the end of the year- I have several friends that support the family by doing it...

I just don't understand why dealers think they can make 3-400 bucks off an amp without doing anything really- yes they had to do the buy in.... yes they have to keep the lights on... I'm not trying to get a free lunch... but I feel the dealers are.

I understand that product tucked away for a maybe day is costly and having one they have to sell at or just above cost that was demo'd isn't economical...

But you don't want to put the effort in to have one on hand then what allows you to make the 400 bucks? It's welfare if you ask me... I can charge this because they say I can- Guy 2 towns over has the stock and has to pay the points to hold onto it... and has one on the board and can't make a dime more? what gives?

Besides warranty what sets them apart from the interwebs for a walk in customer?



Genxx said:


> The marked down price on the JL site is the MAP pricing. Authorized dealers are not suppose to sell under MAP. Most will look past the MAP thing to make a sell.
> 
> On a HD900/5 dealers cost is going to be around $600.00 plus shipping, so another $15-$25.
> 
> ...


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

turbo5upra said:


> So... I had an amp fail for the second time in a matter of weeks-
> 
> I began calling around for a JL HD 900/5.... Not one shop that I called had a 900/5 or any full range HD.. or HD for that matter...
> 
> ...


the bold is what stuck in my head. lets say you see an ad for something at a grocery store or hardware store and when u go to get it they are sold out. you get a raincheck, does that mean you get to pay less?


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Horsemanwill said:


> the bold is what stuck in my head. lets say you see an ad for something at a grocery store or hardware store and when u go to get it they are sold out. you get a raincheck, does that mean you get to pay less?


the retailer made an effort to stock the product...


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

turbo5upra said:


> the retailer made an effort to stock the product...


+1...


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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

This is why as a retailer I stock my lines. But you just can't have more than a few lines if you are going to stock it all. When my customers come in and want a set of hat clarus on their pioneer 80prs, they can take it today.


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## piston (Apr 7, 2007)

This is the first thing I think of hearing questions like this. 

If you know you can buy it cheaper somewhere else then why bother asking a authorized retailer? It's not like everyday someone comes in and buys stuff over the counter. 

I worked for a small shop for over 5 years and can only remember a hand full of times selling a product of high value over the counter. Must customers like to come in ask a dozen questions then leave. No sale at all. 

To answer your question, hell yes the authorized dealer should get full price for the product they are special ordering for you. Don't like it, buy from the manufacture. Do you think the JL deserves to get full retail for a product you can't look at, touch, or listen to when you buy from the JL site? With your thinking JL should just sell you the HD amp for a few bucks over what is cost them to make. 

Jason

Just a small rant from someone that has a small business and tons of customers that want a deal and make me close my doors because things are so expensive.


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

I've noticed that some of the shops in my area will give you MSRP over the phone and give you a better price in person.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

piston said:


> This is the first thing I think of hearing questions like this.
> 
> If you know you can buy it cheaper somewhere else then why bother asking a authorized retailer? It's not like everyday someone comes in and buys stuff over the counter.
> 
> ...


I'm only going to work for half a week next week... But my pay check better not be short... I'm doing half the work of the other guys and I demand the same pay!

You take your car to mechanic A. Shop rate is 80 bucks an hour- he has it all... The tools- the computers- you name it... He can get it done in half the time the book calls for... 

Shop b- same quality work less tools and it takes him 4 hours to find the issue... Should you pay him 80 bucks an hour for 3 extra hours?



Never said I want to steal it or screw the dealer- you want to charge full retail? Earn it.


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## piston (Apr 7, 2007)

turbo5upra said:


> I'm only going to work for half a week next week... But my pay check better not be short... I'm doing half the work of the other guys and I demand the same pay!
> 
> You take your car to mechanic A. Shop rate is 80 bucks an hour- he has it all... The tools- the computers- you name it... He can get it done in half the time the book calls for...
> 
> ...


Now your talking about a service not a product. There is a difference between the 2. 

Jason


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## BumpaD_Z28 (Dec 12, 2011)

MSRP = Double what I'll pay 

~DaVe


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

_What does MSRP mean to you?..._ 

*..."That's MSRP? Damn, I'm making a good deal "* 

Kelvin


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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

BumpaD_Z28 said:


> MSRP = Double what I'll pay
> 
> ~DaVe


This mentality will kill car audio if it spreads.


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## rugdnit (Dec 24, 2007)

adrenalinejunkie said:


> I've noticed that some of the shops in my area will give you MSRP over the phone and give you a better price in person.


I find this to be generally true-- especially if they don't stock it. I don't understand how dealers ( in various different industries ) think they are going to get the sale if they don't even have it in stock. Then again they are getting squeezed from many different directions and I can also see how their OTB dries up quickly.


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## BumpaD_Z28 (Dec 12, 2011)

tnaudio said:


> This mentality will kill car audio if it spreads.


Unfortunately car audio has been dead HERE (Northern UTAH) for YEARS !



p.s. I buy A LOT of used / eBay gear and so far it's treated me right


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## hpilot2004 (Dec 13, 2011)

Manufactuers Sale Ripoff Price.....MSRP!


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

BumpaD_Z28 said:


> MSRP = Double what I'll pay
> 
> ~DaVe


Then you are buying at dealer cost.

Just a question for the guys that like to remember the old days of car audio. Do you guys remember the price of stuff in the late 80's to mid 90's. 

Today the cost of car audio is cheap for what you can buy vs. 15 years ago. Car audio might just be the only market that has had a price decrease vs. most other products. 

I just do not get people complaining about prices now days. Hell $1 per watt was super cheap, IMO the average used to be about $2 a watt. 1000 watt mono amp from RF, PPI, Orion, Crunch ect. could easily run you over $1000.

People used to pay good money for good product, now everyone wants good product for dealer cost.

Here is an old sales PDF for PPI that covers from 1989-1999 check out the Retail Pricing.

http://narbi.free.fr/manuels/Amplis/Precision Power/prix publics PPI.pdf


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

I recall the expensive days... But what are they offering you for the money? Dealer x has the overhead of stocking the item... Why should they get "less" for doing more?


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

MSRP is exactly as it is implied. The "manufacturers suggested retail price". Even online dealers are considered a retail supplier. Even they have the option to charge the msrp. But they usually focus on volume over quality of service. Doesn't mean you'll get bad service but them is the facts. More likely is the fact that the local retail store sees you as a one time one item sales opportunity. Therefore is looking to capitalize on the one time for the maximum amount of profit. I can say from my time in a small local shop that we could charge as little as we wanted down to a certain point. When people came in that we had delt with before we gave them a better price as repeat customers. That my friend is the nature of small business. Its probably best you stick to online purchases if your looking for the best price.

Sent From Your Moms Closet Using TapaTalk Pro


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

When a dealer states cost, He is telling you MSRP cost. Which means buying 1 item only from the MFG, If the dealer buys 30 units per month, the item may be 40% less or greater in some cases. MSRP is usually 65% over the actual cost plus 7% profit for the MFG. I've seen this formula several places


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## DirectionsAndConnections (Nov 21, 2012)

turbo5upra said:


> you want to charge full retail? Earn it.


Why does this sound unreasonable to so many on the forum? I think it's funny when people complain about their ******* customers who DARED to ask for a discount that they are being offered somewhere else. 

MSRP used to mean something different before the internets, because local dealers had everyone by the balls and could charge whatever. Where else could you go? Now, MSRP is meaningless and a lot of dealers are suffering because they haven't done anything to *add value*, and are also unwilling or unable to compete on price.

Some people believe that dealers are entitled to charge more because they have more overhead. But having more overhead doesn't mean you are better or *offer more value*; it just means that you're a sh***y businessman and deserve to be undercut. Go do something else for a living.

Just because something used to be expensive doesn't mean that we should pay more for it now. We don't spend over half of our household income on food anymore, do we?


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## DirectionsAndConnections (Nov 21, 2012)

cajunner said:


> when retailers have a product in demand, they have to charge it up because they miss out on the mark-up on the lesser lines, due to having to offer a deal to move some product.


Then they bought too much product that no one wanted. Why should I pay a higher price for their mistakes.




> a dealer buys in, say 10K of product (on one line!) and gets a free shipping pass, so they stock the shelves. Six months later, another corner of the stockroom is stuffed with unsold product of various nature
> 
> as soon as you think you've caught up the distributor is calling wanting to know when you can come up with another 10K to improve your store's display and increase the selection out back. That old fight, with the internet constantly undercutting, and the Craigslist/Ebay secondary or used markets gaining every year, makes it hard to ask less than MSRP for the good stuff.
> 
> If I ran a shop I'd probably go under in a couple of month


They're letting the distributor tell them what to buy, rather than stocking what people actually want. Most shops aren't run by business people. They are run by people who like car audio. Not knowing the rules of the game, they get taken advantage of and end up fighting a losing battle. It's sad, but it doesn't have to be this way. And no one has to pay MSRP.

I'm sure there are well-run shops out there, but I've had nothing but mean mugs and bad experiences at brick and mortar shops.


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## putergod (Apr 23, 2008)

I have never paid full MSRP - not even in the late 80's/early 90's. Every B&M shop I have done business with has cut me a deal, and I returned mutliple times for that. One shop was actually arrogant enough to tell me "price is marked" when I asked what his best price on something was... My response was "Ummm. Ok, by." and I walked out and have never bought anything from them.
Also, MAP is the minimum ADVERTISED price. NOT the minimum they can sell it for. I've bought equipment below MAP, from an authorized dealer.

Simple fact is, it is better to make $10 100 times than $75 once.


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## stylngle2003 (Nov 2, 2012)

turbo5upra said:


> I'm only going to work for half a week next week... But my pay check better not be short... I'm doing half the work of the other guys and I demand the same pay!
> 
> *You take your car to mechanic A. Shop rate is 80 bucks an hour- he has it all... The tools- the computers- you name it... He can get it done in half the time the book calls for...
> 
> ...


It has been mentioned that this is the difference between a selling a product and a service, but I feel it warrants additional discussion. 

The tools, the scanners, the computers, the lifts, those are all tools of the mechanic's trade. Without them, he can't make any sales (parts or service...well, he could sell online or just be a parts store but that's an entirely different discussion). I know because I just got out of the repair and online retail business in April. 

In your example, mechanic A ought to charge you what the book says, regardless of how fast he can get it done, unless he's a buddy and charging you a mate's rate. That's how good flat-rate techs make 60-80 hrs pay a week, by getting the work done in less time than the book says it should be done in. Mechanic B, in your example, should not charge 3 hours more to diagnose a problem, but if he did, then you didn't get him to do a proper estimate beforehand (gave him a blank check and said "fill in how much it costs after you're done") and it sort of falls on you. The book is there to keep mechanics honest. If I quoted a job at 1.7 hours, and it took me 4 hours, the most I ethically could ask the customer to pay is the "severe service" rate, which is in every copy of every flat-rate manual I have ever seen. It is usually an extra .2 or .3 hours.

People would come to me and ask if I could match a seller on ebay's price for x item. Sure, I _could_, and often did, just to make the sale, but when you come to my shop, which cost $3K a month to keep open, squeeze my margins to nearly nil (seriously....how am I supposed to keep the lights on making $.10 on a copper washer that is supposed to retail for $2.00 profit??) and don't think about what I have to do to stay in business, just to offer you the option to buy parts from me, it's kind of a slap in the face. 

The other thing nobody ever seems to consider when buying stuff online is how much money the vendors make by assraping their customers on shipping. How many times have you bought something menial on ebay and not thought twice about paying $10 for shipping, and when you get it you realize it only cost $4.95 to throw in a flat-rate box???

The market, as a whole, has gotten brutal, thanks to the e-commerce. It isn't going to make a change in the opposite direction, either, it is here to stay. Having the ability to choose and shop around is a wonderful thing, but volume reigns supreme, as margins are dwindling. Places offering top-notch service will fall by the wayside, and we will soon have very few service-oriented organizations (Crutchfield, etc) making a killing because they are perceived to offer greater value, and many much smaller vendors squeaking by on ~7% over cost. Oh wait.... 

It ports well over to a car audio shop: fiberglassing supplies, a website, a build log, a woodshop, a soundboard so you can hear what stuff sounds like and he can make a sale. All of those things are real costs the dealer had to incur just to have the privilege of offering to sell you something. If he is the only JL dealer in your area, he should be allowed to sell at MSRP. If you want him to order you an item, he has to shell out for it (usually up front, unless he does mad volume and is on net30 or something). I won't go into the economics of it, but the cost of capital is increasing on an annual basis, and if a dealer has his own money on the line, and you swiped your credit card to pay for it, that right there could be 8-10% of the cost of the transaction. 

Not even gonna go into the whole buy-in process, because I think it is unethical and biased toward larger companies and not feasible nor economically sound practice for small shops to get into. 

If you're gonna complain about the price of the items he has access to or has on the shelf (bless his heart), but you aren't going to give him the opportunity to "earn" the right to charge MSRP (even though it's his money writing the rent check every month), then don't even go into his shop. He already knows you're just gonna cross-shop him on your iPhone when he quotes you a price....


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## todd131 (Feb 25, 2012)

^yup i agree with statement above.



DirectionsAndConnections said:


> Why does this sound unreasonable to so many on the forum? I think it's funny when people complain about their ******* customers who DARED to ask for a discount that they are being offered somewhere else.
> 
> MSRP used to mean something different before the internets, because local dealers had everyone by the balls and could charge whatever. Where else could you go? Now, MSRP is meaningless and a lot of dealers are suffering because they haven't done anything to *add value*, and are also unwilling or unable to compete on price.
> 
> ...


ding ding ding!
this is true everywhere right now. people are willing to spend money however, they are more careful on how they spend it. percieved value in a deal adds comfort to the transaction which is worth more money. that value can come in many forms.

the shop i recently had a bad experience with sells everything at list price. i purchased some products there and paid more in some cases because my perception was i would be taken care of long term, my mistake.

i did not purchase everything from him because he did not sell some of the things i wanted and some others i just wasn't willing to pay double for dynamat, for example. i gave him every opportunity to sell me these products at a lower margin not cost like i was paying on internet but make a modest profit and i'll buy from you. he chose not to. it's counter intuitive to do this, sometimes you just make the sale, take a modest profit and move on. believe me, i give away free stuff all the time that eats into my revenue number but i make so many sales that i still hit my numbers and in fact i am one of the most successful reps in company so i know it works. most importantly, the deals i make make good business sense for my company.

edit to add: depends on what quality of food you are buying i suppose. i know many people who aren't as fortunate as me financially who have chosen an organic locally grown lifestyle for themselves and their families and it's breaking them....


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## amalmer71 (Feb 29, 2012)

You asked him to order it for you. This is immediately what went through his mind...
_Sure, but I'm going to make sure you pay for it now so I'm not stuck with it if you were to back out. But even that's no guarantee, so you can be damn sure I'm going to make some money off this deal. I'm rolling the dice on this one because I don't know you from Adam and have no idea how reputable you are. You're just another Tom, Dick or Harry to me. Now, if you were a regular customer that I knew was good on his word, I'd cut you a deal, and I may next time depending on how this deal goes, but we'll see._

Of course I'm speculating, but really, what else do you think was going through his head?
This saying is no more true anywhere than it is here; No reward comes without risk.


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## mr. fusion (Jan 10, 2013)

To me, MSRP is just a guidline so that dealers won't overprice equipment. Supply and demand, quantity ordered, frequency of sales, special orders, etc determines the pricing at most places. I worked for a dealer who would would sell all headunits at MAP to get customers in, everything else was MSRP or higher!


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## HiloDB1 (Feb 25, 2011)

MSRP = Manufacturers *Suggested* Retail Price

I would say after working for and now being a dealer that MSRP is exactly that. A suggested retail price for an item the manufacture sets. Unless the company has a policy on what price point you have to sell at the shop has the option and ability to sell at any cost he deems necessary.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

Genxx said:


> . Hell $1 per watt was super cheap, IMO the average used to be about $2 a watt. 1000 watt mono amp from RF, PPI, Orion, Crunch ect. could easily run you over $1000.
> 
> People used to pay good money for good product, now everyone wants good product for dealer cost.
> 
> ...


Switch your whole Price per watt argument to "price per megahertz" and see how it holds up. Everything is way cheeper then it use to be.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

I will also argu that you get better warranty by not buying local\authorised if you are a DIYer.

For example sonicE has 1 or 2 year warranties.

Any product you buy at a B&M\authorised will say 90day self installation warranty. May as well not have any warranty at all. So what ARE us DYIer's getting by not buying gray market? We are getting shafted on price, service and warranty.

Ring me up internet gray market.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

AAAAAAA said:


> I will also argu that you get better warranty by not buying local\authorised if you are a DIYer.
> 
> For example sonicE has 1 or 2 year warranties.
> 
> ...


I went to another local jl dealer last week... I needed a pair of 3.5 coax's. they retail for 89.95. On eBay I can get them for 60 bucks. I explained to the sales person that I was going to modify them as soon as I walked out the door so I wouldn't be warrantying them. He replied that's almost my cost I can't do that.... Using typical pricing structure I offered him 30 bucks over cost- 15 over Internet- 

I'm all for supporting local shops but I don't want to screw myself to do it.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

here is my take on this issue. having had good experiences both both sides.

1. i personally dont believe in stocking lots of products, certainly not things as expensive as the 900/5 the reason is simple, overhead. the more overhead a shop has, the more money the shop has to make on a certain time constraint to remain alive. so for me, if i kept a crap load of stuff in stock, i am just going to be forced to be pushy, cut corners on install to get the car outta there, etc etc. So i would NOT fault a retailer for not wanting to stock a ton of stuff.

2. MSRP, MAP, all this stuff is very hard to draw a line in the sand and say, well this is what dealers should be selling at. I know as forum members here, we all want a good deal, and some some have stated, "if i can get something on amazon for 100, i will pay 115 for it from a dealer etc" this sounds great but there are several factors to consider, chief among which is, what do you do if then another dealer wants to do 114? then another 113? then another 110? 

The race to zero is an effect that takes place all the time and it benefits no one. eventually, dealers will cut throat so much that no one can make money, or they find inventive ways to make money while still offering low price, meaning they take b stock items and pass as new, or if they ever have to do an install, they hack and cut corners to make the money back with minimal cost and time spent on their own.

3. there is also a very common case where customers will lie and cause a commotion to try and get a better price. he goes to retailer A, gets a price, then calls B, and says A gave him this price but which is actually cheaper than what A offered it at, and then C and D etc etc. this causes a lot of tension among retailers and furthers the whole race to zero concept.

for me, i believe in selling myself and proving my honesty, integrity and quality to them first, rather than ramble on and on about the product. to me, me and my abilities and qualities should be what they ultimate pay for, not this Sku or that sku that i am selling them. i want them to know that when they buy from me, i will treat them like a paying customer and stand behind the product and if they ever want to come to me later to install that product, i wont forget the fact that i sold them the item in the first place. etc etc

but i also believe in treating each individual customer separately.

if someone comes in, with a big attitude like a know it all, just endless quote internet prices and basically acts like a dbag, I am not going to be give him a deal, and infact will prolly want to quote a higher price so he can go elsewhere. people like this i have experienced many times and is just not worth it, you charge very little and sell to them, and then they expect you are forever in debt to them and will come back with unreasonable expectations, like they wired it wrong and it burned and they want a full warranty exchange...when you rightly refuse, they blast you to everyone. 

on the other hand, if you come in, is respectful, nice, we have a cool conversation and we have a good time. I will be far more motivated to help you as much as i can on pricing and other things. 

i am pretty good at getting a feel almost right away of which type of person a customer is within the first few mins of conversation.

just my two cents.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

one other thing to consider as consumers. 

someone said "if the shop is to make full margins on me, they should earn it!" i agree with it 100 percent.

but i believe the other side is true as well.

"if a shop gives you a great deal on out the door sales, YOU should earn it!"

meaning, if you got a great deal from a shop, you should NOT go and tell all your friends, yo, this shop is crazy cheap, go there and tell em you know me, and they will sell to you at crazy cheap costs! instead, you should say this shop is really nice and professional, and is willing to work with you, but please be nice and reasonable in your expectations, ec.

also, if you got a great deal from someone, tried to isntall it yourself, and something did go wrong and you know really you did something wrong to cause it, dont go back and raise hell and pretend you have no idea what happened and demand a full exchange.

and many more instances like this...

i think it should be mutually beneficial arrangement built in respect and honesty.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Happens to be I was replacing a set of speakers that had an issue with the tweeter- rather than play the line if no idea what happened to the full retail set i just bought or going out of town to spend the money I thought I'd give them a chance- 

Bing thanks for your input.


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## amalmer71 (Feb 29, 2012)

AAAAAAA said:


> For example sonicE has 1 or 2 year warranties.


Have you, personally, ever tried to get them to honor one? Just curious what your experience was.

I know it's typical that people post the bad before the good but I know of 3 incidents (posts online) of people who tried to get the warranty honored from Sonic and were told to contact the manufacture. One in particular, the manufacture stated they don't honor items purchased from unauthorized Rockford Fosgate dealers.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

^ so worst case scenario you are no worst off then buying authorised he he (for diy).

I have never had anything break that I bought from sonic.


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## krisfnbz (Apr 30, 2008)

MSRP means the amount of money people will over pay for equipment. I have never paid MSRP, and never will. I dont care for warranties etc. MSRP is really useless to me. I never buy authorized. I always buy on forums, and ebay.

I remember my first install in 2006. Absolute garbage. I paid $600 new, I could have had BETTER equipment used for $300 used. I have flipped and switched 100's of audio related pieces over the years.... no sense in wasting the $ buying MSRP.

Just my input.


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## amalmer71 (Feb 29, 2012)

AAAAAAA said:


> ^ so worst case scenario you are no worst off then buying authorised he he (for diy).


Huh?



> I have never had anything break that I bought from sonic.


That wasn't my question, but OK.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

amalmer71 said:


> Huh?
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't my question, but OK.


The point was that the 3 month warranty from authorised is as worthless as no warranty when you DIY. So if sonic doesn't help you out...well at least you paid less with sonic as opposed to paying more for no added benefits with a local shop.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

AAAAAAA said:


> The point was that the 3 month warranty from authorised is as worthless as no warranty when you DIY. So if sonic doesn't help you out...well at least you paid less with sonic as opposed to paying more for no added benefits with a local shop.


As asked before ... Huh ? Since when does this, or did this Ever apply ? Canadian thing ? A warranty is a warranty when purchased legitimately. A retailer cannot 'cut back' the warranty term because you installed it yourself.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Some manufacturers only honor warranties if an authorized dealer installs an item. I've seen it in the fine print before.


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## rmoltis (Sep 4, 2012)

Even online retailers offer a warranty. It's a year just like in stores. They just have you send it in, they have their technicians test out the product in question and then if needed they send it out for repair to the manufacturer. And if they have weird stipulations in their fine print... Then find another retailer that doesn't try to scam you out of a warranty.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

pocket5s said:


> Some manufacturers only honor warranties if an authorized dealer installs an item. I've seen it in the fine print before.


Additional to standard, ie: 2 year if dealer installed, 1 year if not. Otherwise I have never seen such a thing. Oddly I am a retailer so I guess my line card is just good, solid companies then.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

rmoltis said:


> Even online retailers offer a warranty. It's a year just like in stores. They just have you send it in, they have their technicians test out the product in question and then if needed they send it out for repair to the manufacturer. And if they have weird stipulations in their fine print... Then find another retailer that doesn't try to scam you out of a warranty.


 By sending it in to That particular etailer. If they're gone or don't want to help, you're screwed. Unless of course it is someone like Crutchfield or the likes which is authorized.


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

A certain well known and respected company's products used to come with only a 90day warranty if purchased over the counter, but a 1-3year warranty if bought from and installed by the authorized dealer. Since they decided to go less for protected dealers, and available through distribution chains and the internet, the warranty has changed. So they are probably moving more product, but my guess is seeing more RA's for improperly installed equipment. This drives up the price for EVERYONE.
That company make great products, but I preferred the warranty being regulated by who was installing it. I know there's some guys on this forum who install the gear properly, but I see installs every day that I know are going to destroy product and if I was a manufacturer, I wouldn't want my name being trashed by the failure of an unqualified installation and I wouldn't want to have to repair or replace items at a higher rate and cost.
It also looks bad on the store that is selling the equipment, because manufacturers track each retailers return/warranty rate, and how many calls to the tech dept. These figures determine how much cost a shop pays for the product. This determines how much a customer has to pay for the product.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

Guys seriously? I am sure it exists but I have not come accross a product that has more than a 90day warranty for self installation written in the ownsers manual. I buy everything from the states so it's not a "canadian thing". And from my point of view it's not because I am worried I will break it... if I break it personaly it's my bad I don't warranty it. It's more of a "I won't even get around to use this until a few months down the road".

I remember having this very argument with Grizz when he was with Epsilon and he thought I was crazy until I started to show him all the PPI user manuals haha. they all say that.

Here are just a few examples

Massive audio Dblock amps
Units that are not installed by an authorised "massive audio" dealer maintant a warranty not to exceed 90 days from purchase....

Precision power phantom
Limited 90day consumer warranty
2 year if installed by blah blah blah

I will say time has gone by and I did check a few compagnies that it didn't really say and JL audio have 2 years. So perhaps my point of view is slowly loosing validity.


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