# Rookie door pod



## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

So this is the most extreme thing I've done in car audio since making A-pillar tweeter mounts. These actually have to hold some weight. 

I feel that I really need to do something because this situation...










is just not cutting it for me. The midrange (sound waves) hit the smooth inner plastic of the door card and cause a ringing around 2000k that I can’t eq out without serious degradation of vocal coherence.

I've considered the idea of kicks, and I will try them someday when I try a 3 way front stage with 3" or 4" midranges.

So I decided door pods are the way to go. I found these  and this on the interwebs and decided to make some of my own. 

So this is nothing original and that link to that other guys build log is probably going to be better (even though he never showed a finished product).

My hope is to fumble along through this with you guys and show all the gory details and we can all learn something from this.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

bucket.com/albums/v646/megalo5/IMG_0462.jpg[/IMG]


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Got a 6" PVC drain pipe from Lowes










Made an outline of the curve of the door panel.










I made a mistake cutting out the hole. I followed the stock grill hole which is 6.5" but I should have cut a 6" hole.










Put just enough glass to hold enough to test fit


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

right on, good to see you taking the leap


i started on mine as well... just so bogged down at the shop i only have time to work on them a couple minutes here and there


orgasmdonor finished his pods up, he just has been too damn busy to post anything... must be a trend for people in this industry


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Bonding the PVC with the mold


















Test fitting 

















Nissan didn't even bother to line the speakers with the grille. 










I need to layer up more fiberglass around the pvc










A beautiful view of the Texas hill country from my balcony (work shop)


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## tr0y_audi0 (Feb 13, 2007)

Keep it up looks good...


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

I made hundreds of tiny holes.


















A cut up old t-shirt










A high heat hot glue gun










I stuck 4 dabs of hot glue 










I frayed up the edges of the t-shirt so it will overlap better when I add the resin.


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

Cool work! Never get over how plain-jane smart the 350z doors look? (atleast I think thats a 350z).
What I like the most is your work shop! Damm mang, your doing things in a hard place!


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Arranging fiberglass matt on the outside of the PVC to get maximum bond...










I can't really build up any mass on this side because it will compromise fitment... 










One layer of glass on the inside of the t-shirt...










One layer of glass on the outside of the t-shirt...










Another layer of glass on the original mold...










There were some air pockets so I sanded into them with a dremel sandpaper but and I'll fill them with chopped up mat.










The other side, after brushing on resin...


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

so does the speaker mount on the part where you put the tshirt?

you'd get less air bubbles with strand mat (that cloth likes to separate) or by scuffing up the previous layer before laying down more cloth.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

No. I'm gona put a wooden ring on the front. You'll see.

Yea I'm using Bondo everything. I know theirs better stuff out there, but I'm limiting myself to whatever I can grab at Home depot or Lowes.

The scuffing sounds like a sound idea


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

I seemed to have developed some fitment issues.

The first test fit was fine. I guess the last layer of resin warped it from the heat or something.

It's hard to see in this photo...










If I push it in it sort of fits, but it wont be this flexible when its done...










I really need that seam especialy to be flush, so I'm going to fill it in on the back with some QuikWood


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

you will be glad you did this when your done


you learn a ton every time you glass something


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

You definitely do learn something every time you glass something. 

I guess it was a bad idea to pull the mold off the door panel after 2 layers of glass. 

Oh well. Maybe the passenger side one will go more smoothly.


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

Megalo said:


> No. I'm gona put a wooden ring on the front. You'll see.
> 
> Yea I'm using Bondo everything. I know theirs better stuff out there, but I'm limiting myself to whatever I can grab at Home depot or Lowes.
> 
> The scuffing sounds like a sound idea


You can actually spend the same money and get better stuff.

Uscomposites has some very good resin for 32.50 a gallon, It was always more expensive for me to get it at home depot.

If you ever use that stuff, you won't go back to bondo brand.

The pods are looking great tho. So they are going to be a small sealed pod?


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

I'm going to try them sealed first. 

If it doesn't work out I'll vent them into the door.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

you can always go with a aperiodic (sp?) vent if need be so you dont lose control


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

AdamTaylor said:


> you can always go with a aperiodic (sp?) vent if need be so you dont lose control


Yep. I'm not sure what a 6.5" in too small of an enclosure sounds like, but I've read that their "peaky" at ~ 100 - 200 Hz??? 

If I need just a little more room, I'll just stuff some pollyfill in their. 

If that doesn't work I'll try an aperiodic membrane. 

If that doesn't work I'll try port it (maybe)

If that doesn't work I'll just open up the back to vent into the door.


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

how are you going to attach it to the door?


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

falkenbd said:


> how are you going to attach it to the door?


I'm going to have to drill 4 holes through the door panel and mold.

My original plan was to use Wellnuts. I ordered some, but now that I look at them, I don't think their going to work for this. The holes are going to be huge and I don't think they will hold as good as regular nuts and bolts.

So I think I'm going to go with standard nuts/bolts/washers maybe a rubber washer under each metal washer for decoupling


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## vladi627 (Sep 22, 2008)

This is your first install? if so, amazing job.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

I've made A-pillar tweeter pods for 2 cars, and I've made fiberglass 'hole covers'(?) to seal the doors of my last car. 

Thank for the compliment anyway


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

I have alot more filling in to do.

This thing really got warped!


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

I realized that putty idea wasn't going to work. It was just way too warped. I really need this to fit flush.

I think I can still salvage most of it.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

I had to rebuild alot of the driver side one.










I tried something different with the passenger side pod


































FF>>

GLN305 made some really great mdf rings for me and I began mocking up how these things are going to look. At the time I really wanted to get them on axis as possible, but I still didn't know how obtrusive they would be.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

That's just way too obtrusive for me to deal with so I took it down a notch.


































I think can live with them like this. It wasn't how I originally planned, but I need to be comfortable while I'm enjoying great sound.

I need to mock up the driver side and then drive around like this a few days before I commit to it. I don't really see how I could get any more minimalistic though.


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## jmvar (May 11, 2009)

great build so far, thank you for sharing.

Any input or idea on why the driver's side warped?


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

jmvar said:


> great build so far, thank you for sharing.
> 
> Any input or idea on why the driver's side warped?


Thanks for the complement. 

I'm sure it got warped from adding layers of glass while removed from the door panel. See picture #5 in post http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/62145-rookie-door-pod.html#post782919

I left the passenger side one on the door panel for every layer of glass, and no warping problems.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

pretty good. though i think the technique you are using, as to laying down the initial mold, is costing you a lot of time. meaning if you lay down the initial layer and its fully comformed to the door, you dont need to do so much finishing. i general lay all the layers of glass at once, using very little hardner to prevent warping, then, let it dry, and then lay out duraglass, and let hte entire thing dry for over night to prevent warping.

i think the main issue with door pods though, as you will find out, is that even with heavy sound proofing on the back of the door card, its gonna buzz and rattle at louder volume at certain freqs. that annoys the crap outta me...

i also dont suggest sealing like that, you are going to have a TON of build of 150-250hz range. just from experience


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

simplicityinsound said:


> pretty good. though i think the technique you are using, as to laying down the initial mold, is costing you a lot of time. meaning if you lay down the initial layer and its fully comformed to the door, you dont need to do so much finishing.
> 
> i think the main issue with door pods though, as you will find out, is that even with heavy sound proofing on the back of the door card, its gonna buzz and rattle at louder volume at certain freqs. that annoys the crap outta me...
> 
> i also dont suggest sealing like that, you are going to have a TON of build of 150-250hz range. just from experience


Thanks Bing! I know I've got my work cut out for me with the rattles and buzzes, but I'm optimistic ...for now.

I probably will end up opening them up in the back. I just want to hear what they will sound like in an enclosure that's too small first.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

Aperiodic Speaker Enclosure Design

thats how im doing my door pods


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Looking good so far Mega. Keep up the nice work.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

AdamTaylor said:


> Aperiodic Speaker Enclosure Design
> 
> thats how im doing my door pods


If they sound bad sealed I may try what Yoursogansta did here http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/57315-install-freestyle-8.html#post750366 with some tiny holes. I don't know if that will work just like an Aperiodic membrane.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

lilmsprelude said:


> Great build log and lots of detailed pictures FTW!
> 
> ...and some very kewl ideas you are working with here. I'm eager to see more.
> (maybe I will work up the nerve to start my door pods.)


DO IT! 

Thanks for the kind words.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

Megalo said:


> If they sound bad sealed I may try what Yoursogansta did here http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/57315-install-freestyle-8.html#post750366 with some tiny holes. I don't know if that will work just like an Aperiodic membrane.


same thing, just a resistive membrane


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

I started an the hardware side of things.

I chose t-nuts for this because I don't think hurricane nuts will work in this situation. the mounting holes for these speakers and grills are so close to the edge.










I decided to just open the holes up. The mdf was just to thin there.



















Instead of smashing them in with a hammer I drilled some small holes for the t-nut teeth to go. 



















Then I used quikwood to fill in the holes and hopefully hold the t-nuts to the mdf.










They wont touch the speaker basket, I checked.










Then to bolt the pods onto the door panel. This was the point of no return. I now have holes in the panel. 










I later trimmed the bolts with a dremel cutting wheel.










I'm using washers with rubber on them. I don't know if it will help decouple the pod or not. I just needed some washers and saw these at Home Depot.


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Looking good so far man.
I saw someone asked why the glass warped. Glassing onto the pod with it removed will do it, especially if you use too much MEKP, causing a hot mix. 

Also removing the glass from the mold to early will cause warping. FG takes some time to FULLY cure. Ideally you want to leave the glass on whatever it is you moulding for at least 24 hours. This especially goes for larger, flatter areas. FG is mega strong in curved surfaces but looses alot of stregth on flat areas. For added strength you can glass in rope or wooden dowels.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

update much, i might pass you up... i have the base done and the rings are 90% dont (just need to cut a plexi ring) and then the wrapping begins...... chop chop


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Haha! I haven't had the camera much. Its my GF's and she needs it for her project. I have been working though. Here are some pix.














































I sprayed them with black primer and installed them to see how they sound. I wanted to see if they resonated, or if they were just too small. 
After some tuning I couldn't believe my ears! It was the best any of my cars has ever sounded! 

The imaging was so focused and high up. The only resonation was from the door card. The midbass seemed good to me. I needed to do some cuts at 80Hz and 125Hz. I loved it so much I drove for hours with the volume fairly high. Then the music stopped. ...and never came back  This is what I found the next day...










So I cant enjoy my pods until I get this sorted out.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

aww that sucks ass

sorry to hear that. no better time than now to go active vs. cost of replacing passives


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

AdamTaylor said:


> aww that sucks ass
> 
> sorry to hear that. no better time than now to go active vs. cost of replacing passives


This was my amp, not a crossover 

I've been strictly active for 13 years.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

****... even worse


just looked like a beefy ass passive crossover from pic.... never seen a rainbow crossover for comparison so i was making a shot in the dark


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Oh well. Unplanned upgrade. This is my new JL Audio HD600/4 amp.























































This thing rocks my socks!


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## BettaJetta (Aug 24, 2009)

I like this thread! Very nice work.


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

Rookie? More like a ringer. Nice work.


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## BettaJetta (Aug 24, 2009)

I like this build too but there is something that some people may not know. Just like a woofer, a mid woofer needs the proper air space. The sound can be changed by the size and shape of the compartment behind the woofer.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

im doing mine much like yours except im not drilling the doors at all and i didnt use pvc


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

BettaJetta said:


> I like this build too but there is something that some people may not know. Just like a woofer, a mid woofer needs the proper air space. The sound can be changed by the size and shape of the compartment behind the woofer.


This is very true. I did notice that I have A LOT more midbass with these pods. Probably because the enclosure is too small. For now I just cut the 80Hz and 125Hz a cupple of notches. I may vent them into the door later. This is still the best any of my cars has ever sounded. I am very pleased


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

AdamTaylor said:


> im doing mine much like yours except im not drilling the doors at all and i didnt use pvc


How are you attaching yours to the door? 

Just qurious.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

to the inner metal panel 


ill take pics later today


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

bolting them to these so the door card rattle will be no more









2 layers of 1/16" aluminum with foam sandwiched in between


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## KLoNe (Aug 22, 2009)

Ok, these are looking really great - anxious to see everything all finished up.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Today I drilled some tiny holes in the back of one of the pods. I am going to do some A-B comparisons to see if the midbass improves. I suspect that the small air volume is choking the drivers movement some. 



















I have no idea if any of this is going to work. I'm just a rookie door pod builder.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

i did the same.... i know the small volume would choke out my scanspeak 18w's


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## SQ Monte (Sep 12, 2009)

So have you finished these yet? Can we get some finished pics if so?

They look good by the way, seeing how good of a job you did on yours has given me some optimism on trying to build some for my car, although I'd be building some to house a 3 way front stage with a flush mounted removeable grill. Yeah, i'm very ambitious.


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## mda185 (Dec 14, 2006)

That small volume was probably causing your driver to have a very high 'Q' resonance that was at a frequency well above what it can do in a larger enclosure. This would have also caused your bass response to roll of at a higher frequency than you want. 

What you are doing now may actually work well if there is some kind of fiberglass or dacron between the woofer the back wall. It is called aperiodic damping and it is sometimes used to alter a driver's 'Qts'. This is also known as the free air 'Qt' or total 'Q'. In home speaker design, there is a considerably larger volume used in aperiodic enclosures but this still may work for you. The damping it provides and new resonant frequency will depend on size of holes, how many holes, and what kind of stuffing is in there. I am very interested in how this turns out.

One more thing. If the back of the enclosure is not rigid enough, it will vibrate like a drum skin and you will hear this also. It could have caused your mid to have a very peaked response at certain frequencies and a sharp dip when the vibrating back wall caused cancellation. Adding vent holes will relieve this situation somewhat also. 

I have not read the whole post. If you have the ability to compare before and after frequency response, I would be very interested in seeing that. Great job on the pods. I am impressed with your fabrication skills.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

SQ Monte said:


> So have you finished these yet? Can we get some finished pics if so?
> 
> They look good by the way, seeing how good of a job you did on yours has given me some optimism on trying to build some for my car, although I'd be building some to house a 3 way front stage with a flush mounted removeable grill. Yeah, i'm very ambitious.


I'll post some shots for you. Their still not really done. I just installed them as sort of a test fit, and test listen. 

The whole point of this project was to get better higher midrange out of my Rainbow W 165 PROFI Kicks. Unfoutunately I've come to the conclusion that the midrange is just very poor on the W 165. I'm replacing them with Dynaudio MW160s.

I think I'll be able to reuse everything I've built except the mounting holes will be different. 

I'm planning on ditching the T-nuts and filling in the holes with Quikwood. 
Then I may just use wood screws to mount them.

I don't know what I'm going to do about grills for the Dynaudio MW160s yet. Hope I don't kick em getting in and out of the car.


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## mda185 (Dec 14, 2006)

I forgot to mention, the effectiveness of the aperiodic damping will depend on the thickness of the stuffing you put in there. In home speakers, the fiberglass or dacron placed in an aperiodic vent is packed tightly to offer some flow resistance. I have also seen foam glued over the holes to offer resistance instead of packing fiberglass or dacron. In your install, I would probably try gluing a piece of open cell foam over the holes and stuff the chamber loosely with dacron. If you stuff the whole chamber with tightly packed fiberglass or dacron, it will lower the driver's efficiency and possibly restrict cone motion. I have some dense 1/4" open cell foam that might work really well for you. You would just have to build it up by gluing layers together. You could try one thin layer and add more until you get the response you want. PM me if you are interested in learning more about the foam. I bought it from McMaster Carr industrial supply and do not remember the specifics about it right now. I will have to do a little research before telling you what to get. If you want to try a small sample, I could probably send a piece.


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## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

AdamTaylor said:


> bolting them to these so the door card rattle will be no more
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Bolt to the door FTW! I made those same base plates. I'm getting ready to post my build thread now...


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Yea I cant wait to see how that works out Adam. I just cant seem to visualize it right now.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

So just catching up with posting some pix. The small tiny holes on the driver side didn't seem to make a noticeable difference at all. Remember, I left the passenger one sealed, as the control. So I drilled ~ a 2" hole in the back of the drivers side. This made a big difference. 




























I did this 3 days ago. The midbass is better but the higher midrange sounds just as bad as always. 
I started doing alot of research on the midrange capabilities of the Rainbow W 165, and it turns out they are known for poor midrange. 
Someone I trust told me that in his opinion, the W 165 should only be used in a 3 way. Someone else I trust wrote that they sound like stock car speakers with good midbass.
I found a graph of the W 165 with the cal26 tweeter. The midrange really does look bad right around 2k.(lower graph)










I overlayed a graph of the Dynaudio MW160 (also with the cal26 tweeter) and it looks like alot better midrange situation.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

And now, the new sexy!


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## SQ Monte (Sep 12, 2009)

Megalo said:


> I'll post some shots for you. Their still not really done. I just installed them as sort of a test fit, and test listen.


I'd appreciate it...i'm considering making some custom pods of my own so I'll definitely be referring to this thread for tips and ideas.



Megalo said:


> And now, the new sexy!


Sexy indeed! I wish I had the coin for some of those.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Here are some front shots for you SQ Monte. That's just mat black primer on them.


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## SQ Monte (Sep 12, 2009)

Megalo said:


> Here are some front shots for you SQ Monte. That's just mat black primer on them.


Thanks man. I think they look pretty good so far, I like the shape of them, the outline of them seems to have some curvature that tries to follow the flow of the door panel instead of just being a big blog stuck to the panel...if that makes any sense.

I am strongly considering building some door pods to house 3 way components
in my car cause my current 2 way components just aren't cutting it for me...the soundstage is located at or a little below the dash and I really would like it to at about the base of the windshield...and my vocal image is nowhere near centered.


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## AdamTaylor (Sep 7, 2008)

you should just break down and run 3way

sexy sexy dyns by the way


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

AdamTaylor said:


> you should just break down and run 3way
> 
> sexy sexy dyns by the way


I haven't crossed that bridge just yet. I've heard too many great sounding 2 way systems by Austin DIYMA members (Mooble, SublimeZ, snaimpally, dmazyn).

I'm not opposed to 3 way. I'm sure I'll try it someday when my tuning and installing skills are better and I get bored.


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## dmazyn (Apr 29, 2008)

I think your going to like the Dynaudio mids and you should be able to cross those a little higher to match up with the tweeter better as well.

Dmazyn


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

That's the plan Dmazyn. Thanks! Your car was one of the deciding factors for getting these.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Damn! That's a good speaker! 

I installed one Dyn, on the passenger side, to do a A-B comparison. 

I'm sure its not even broken in yet, so it will only get better, but all I can say is wow!

I cant wait to get the driver side installed.


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## SQ Monte (Sep 12, 2009)

*off topic*

The last 3 posters, myself included, all have the P880PRS 

Back on topic
I was considering going 3 way up front too, but if Megalo is worried he doesn't have the skills or tuning abilities to pull it off nicely then I think I should scrap the idea too because he has me beat by a mile. I'm about to go order the PPI 356CS components and see if they can outperform my CDT components cause at the moment I'd be lying if I said i'm totally happy with them.....although that could very well be as a result of this being my first time trying to dial in a 3 way active xover network (highs/mids/subs)


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