# Deep breath - Focal KRX3 comp set ordered.



## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I decided that I'm going to get serious. I ordered a Focal KRX3 comp set. $1200 at sonicelectronix, about $200 cheaper than woofersetc.

I am going to buy an active crossover/sound processor - so I'll need recommendations on which to purchase. I'm also going to invest the time/energy to learn how to tune a system the right way.

I'm putting the 3" mid and the tweeter in sail pods, and the woofers in the doors. They will be run quasi-active with the woofers on a JL audio 300/2 and the tweeters & mids on my ARC audio FD 100.2

I'm going to finish deadening my doors today - the clay just came in the mail.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Im sorry to say but I think you spent way too much money on a component set especially for not being an authorized Focal dealer (i hope you get authentic products at least) 

For $1200 you could get better raw drivers and forgo the crossovers which you said you will not use anyways.

Just my opinion


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Wow, I've tried to steer you away from buying ultra expensive components and using raw drivers instead, but it looks like you made up your mind.

I hate to say it to you again, but expensive speakers will not automatically give you good sound. In fact often times high end drivers are more demanding of the install and tuning.

Well anyway, good luck.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I tend to agree with AZ but, nevertheless, hope you enjoy the new setup


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

89grand said:


> In fact often times high end drivers are more demanding of the install and tuning.


Quoted for truth.

Now this isn't a bad thing, but it is something you do need to understand. Basically if it's your first time 3-way and first time running active, and you're not really used to all the processing, expect your speaker set to sound like crap for a good month until you start getting a clue on what to do and what to listen for. A lot of time time is you teaching yourself how various features influence the end sound and training the ear and mind to pick up on things.

$1200 is a big chunk of change. Realize this will basically allow you to buy god speakers of the home audio world and run active just the same. This isn't to say the Focal set won't sound really freaking good. It'll probably sound very good in its own right. I'm just saying that at the $1200 budget level, there are a LOT of options. I mean you could build a 2-way out of the Scanspeak Illuminator like for that kind of scratch. Do you comprehend that concept of budget and availability? Just weigh your options. That's all.

I do kind of have a personal preference if the idea of a 3-way should really incorporate a midbass bigger then 6.5". It's just that there are enough 6.5" + tweeter options out there to very adequately cover the playable frequency range by those sized speakers and at low enough x-over points to not have beaming issues either. Stepping to a 3-way, I feel a person should really step to a midbass specific woofer, like long throw mini-sub here, and generally of a larger size like an 8" or something. Otherwise, you're adding hardware and really just not taking advantage of the extra driver.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I have no idea what being an authorized dealer vs. not means. You mean they could try to sell me a fake ? what the heck?

for 89 grand - I'm going to learn how to tune it. May take me a while to get it right, but at least I have a platform that I'll have plenty of headroom to learn with.

This also means that i'll be putting my Morel Supreme carbon fiber 6.5" mids on ebay. I'll let you guys know once they go up.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

mvw2 said:


> Quoted for truth.
> 
> Now this isn't a bad thing, but it is something you do need to understand. Basically if it's your first time 3-way and first time running active, and you're not really used to all the processing, expect your speaker set to sound like crap for a good month until you start getting a clue on what to do and what to listen for. A lot of time time is you teaching yourself how various features influence the end sound and training the ear and mind to pick up on things.
> 
> ...


I can't fit an 8" driver except on the passenger side, and it would have to be a custom kick pod. In the doors, 8" simply isn't an option. Even 7" is too big since i'm using the stock locations with MDF plates.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Well since you are dropping the money. Zapco DSP6, BitOne (if you get a newer version) or Rane, dbx drive piece, Alpine H900.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

You're probably not going to get much love for buying a prefab set. This is a "DIY" crowd, which I guess also means a "raw drivers" crowd.

But...it's your money.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I'm only running quasi-active, so I needed a 3" and tweeter combined with the passive crossover as one package. I also needed a new 6.5" midbass so it seemed like the perfect set. I'll admit it's kinda lazy though.

I don't like to talk about my budget because people get angry and flame me. I'm not rich or anything but I do have some extra cash to play with. I'll look into those sound processors. 

Oh man, now i'm going to need to figure out a way to fit it in my already cramped trunk. Ah the joys of addiction.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> I'm only running quasi-active, so I needed a 3" and tweeter combined with the passive crossover as one package.


That's not a bad way to implement a 3-way, IMO. At least from a power response perspective. You can run the whole damned thing off a 4ch.

Alternatively (ie. if you still have time to back out), since your tweeter and mid will be running off the same baffle, you could also build an already-designed passive xover from the myriad of tested designs on the internet -- like the Zaph page, for example. You'd be using much cheaper drivers and could pick and choose your midbass, perhaps going with something a little more long-throw since midbass output was a major concern of yours.

Edit: for example, John's design with the dayton domes... http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

You might want to consider just running those components with the Passive Crossover and see how it sounds. I believe that set has a lot of different settings to tweak the sound.

Sometimes simpler is better.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Its not about the money, it is about the unnecessary spending of it that a lot of people get frumpy about. 

With $1200, you can get a LOT of speaker in the raw driver category. Hell, you could probably source the original Focal speaker drivers (JM Labs) and have many hundreds left over for a true 3 way + sub active processor and amp config. Two 3sixty.2's strapped together comes to mind off the top of my head, but there's many others.


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## audisoner 596 (Dec 15, 2008)

I have a brand new Zapco DSP6 and the companion DRC if you're interested


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Wow, 1200 big ones. I know it has already been said, but you could have gotten a compareable or better setup for a fraction of that cost. Not saying the Focal set is not nice, but there is a ton of drivers that would match them for less money.

But good luck with your setup, and do like the looks of that new Focal 3".

Hell I could have gotten you a new DLS Scandinavia 3 way for less then that.


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

make sure to buy some high end car audio speaker cable to go along with that...







(that was sarcasm) 

I pretty much agree with everybody in the thread..

You need to read up on authorized vs unauthorized. You could be getting hosed... ie NO WARRANTY


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

:rimshot:


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

ok, everybody basically scared the hell out of me
I called and canceled the order.

now please help me figure out where to go from square 1 lol

*I need a 3" midrange and a tiny (1.25" or less diameter) tweeter with a passive crossover. They are going to be paired on one baffle in the sail, and will be run off of a ARC audio FD 100.2*

I'm also going to need suggestions on powerful 6.5" midbass drivers - adire extremis was suggested - any others?


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Rainbow Profi Kicks


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

PS. I feel dumb and smart at the same time.

edit: just saw the rainbow profi kick suggestion - I can't do kicks or horns of any sort. I've measured more than once, and would kill for a larger area on the driver's side - no dice. If I put a kick on the driver's side I would end up crushing it as I try to step on the clutch.

Even the tiny horns won't work, because although the dimensions fit, they would be blocked by an oddly curved plastic piece protecting the steering column. I can't remove that damn thing either, and if I cut it, it's going to look awful.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

I guess there is no need for me to vent about not buying authorized.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> PS. I feel dumb and smart at the same time.


I'm glad that the members had a chance to intervene. I bought some really expensive Tweeter's before I found this forum, so don't feel bad.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

I bought Infinity Reference components and an Audiobahn amp before I found this forum.


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

As long as your happy with it, it's all good...and it's money well spent. Just hope you get original drivers.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

well. I had a suggestion of this - tell me what you think?



> You want a system? Buy 2 of the Adire Extremis and put them in your 6.5" door locations. I don't think Adire makes them anymore, but CSS (I think) built a drop-in replacement. Run them up to about 500-700Hz or so. Then build your sail pods and put the Dayton dome mids and the little Dayton tweeters in there. Put together the passive crossover shown on that Zaph site that I linked to. Tune to taste. .
> If that doesn't get loud enough for you, see a doctor.


How about this? Also, does anyone on this forum build passive crossovers? I'm going to need one.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

invecs said:


> As long as your happy with it, it's all good...and it's money well spent. Just hope you get original drivers.


I wouldn't say it was money well spent, but they are real. 


Since you now have some money I like the Scan-Speak Illuminator Tweeter:



Scan-Speak Illuminator D2004/6020-00 tweeter from Madisound


It's slightly smaller than the Focal TN53 Tweeter you were going to use.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

bd5034 said:


> edit: just saw the rainbow profi kick suggestion - I can't do kicks or horns of any sort. I've measured more than once, and would kill for a larger area on the driver's side - no dice. If I put a kick on the driver's side I would end up crushing it as I try to step on the clutch.


The Rainbow Profi Kick is just the name of the speaker. It doesn't have anything to do with the kick panel. I've never heard them, but a lot of people seem to really like them.


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

michaelsil1 said:


> I wouldn't say it was money well spent, but they are real.
> 
> 
> Since you now have some money I like the Scan-Speak Illuminator Tweeter:
> ...


Yup...it's too much money for me as well...but to each his own. I enjoy listening to kevlar mids...sounds very detailed to me.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

You know, a set of Pioneer TS-C720PRS woofers would probably fit the bill for excellent midbass. The tweeter is just "OK", but the woofer is awesome. 

Can I ask, why not just go full-bore w/ another FD amp (perhaps a small one) and run full-active? Nothing wrong w/ passive, but you have more control and finesse ability running active.


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## ibanzil (Jun 29, 2008)

i think you made a good decision. No guessing needed, those are great speakers and the sky is the limit for your sound. I have heard that set, same way as you plan with mids tweets up top and midbass in door only difference was he was using the passives...after 30 minutes of tuning via bit1 I was blown away...Awesome sweet sounding set.

you know that you have all the potential in the world for a top notch stereo if anything doesnt sound right then the problem is in the install. Installed right, eq dialed in....you will never want to get out of your car.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

ibanzil said:


> i think you made a good decision. No guessing needed, those are great speakers and the sky is the limit for your sound. I have heard that set, same way as you plan with mids tweets up top and midbass in door only difference was he was using the passives...after 30 minutes of tuning via bit1 I was blown away...Awesome sweet sounding set.
> 
> you know that you have all the potential in the world for a top notch stereo if anything doesnt sound right then the problem is in the install. Installed right, eq dialed in....you will never want to get out of your car.


Psst... he canceled the order. We're back to other options.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Didn't know if you know it, but Zalytron sells individual Focal (JM Lab) speakers if you crave at least some of them.
Zalytron


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

michaelsil1 said:


> I wouldn't say it was money well spent, but they are real.
> 
> 
> Since you now have some money I like the Scan-Speak Illuminator Tweeter:
> ...



Funny, those are the exact tweeters I was drooling over when I first decided to go active. Before my mid-bass issues my plan was to buy those tweets to match up with the morel woofers i'm currently running. 

In other words, those tweeters are on my short list. Anybody got a 3" mid that would pair nicely with the illuminators? (not any bigger than 3", it's gotta fit in the sail)

I'll need a custom crossover for them too... any builders please come out of the woodwork and help me.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> Funny, those are the exact tweeters I was drooling over when I first decided to go active. Before my mid-bass issues my plan was to buy those tweets to match up with the morel woofers i'm currently running.
> 
> In other words, those tweeters are on my short list. Anybody got a 3" mid that would pair nicely with the illuminators? (not any bigger than 3", it's gotta fit in the sail)
> 
> I'll need a custom crossover for them too... any builders please come out of the woodwork and help me.


That new Focal 3" looks like it will do rather nicely.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

michaelsil1 said:


> That new Focal 3" looks like it will do rather nicely.


Which new focal? Don't tell me the one from the 3-way krx set lol


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> Which new focal? Don't tell me the one from the 3-way krx set lol


Exactly! 

View attachment 10615

3 KRX3 (165 KRX3 MIDRANGE KIT)

Try the Zalytron link

Zalytron


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

hm, I can't find them on that site.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> hm, I can't find them on that site.


You probably have to contact an Authorized Focal Dealer and ask for a discount.

If it's around the $300.00 each range then go with the Focal 3W2BE instead it's definitely a winner.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

89grand said:


> The Rainbow Profi Kick is just the name of the speaker. It doesn't have anything to do with the kick panel. I've never heard them, but a lot of people seem to really like them.


The Kick woofers from RAC are specifically NOT for kick panels... they are for in-door mounting and are designed to have a rising response in a large, lossy door enclosure (filling the dip in many car's midbass response), but then dropping at a much steeper rate below that. 

So running them full-range at the bottom end is bad, but crossing them over at 70-80, I understand, is muy bueno.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Yea, their specialty drivers that must be crossed over at 80 Hz with a steep slope. Their for people who want the most midbass they can get out of a 6.5" opening with a rather shallow mounting depth. And you need a subwoofer of course. they fit the bill for me.

The Adire Extremis were also on my list, but they have a deep mounting depth, and are more for a 3 way front stage.


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## cjag (Jul 22, 2007)

If you like the Focal (I do) just source the raw drivers. Any shop that deals Focal can order individual speakers from any set. I started with the K2P set,ran the set for a while, ditched the crossovers and my installer (Jeff Smith) ordered me the 5.25's from the 130KP comps to add in the kicks. came in way under the $1200 number you were throwing around. (And its all authorized).Just another option.Good luck


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok. So if I find a focal authorized dealer, I would want the 3" midranges from the KRX3 set. In order to pair them with the scan speak illuminator tweeters, I would need custom passive crossovers. 

I've asked a few times, but i'm going to keep on asking until somebody comes along who can help - *I need someone who builds custom passive crossovers to either post here or PM me - I am in need of some custom passives - please help!!*


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I'm also going to need some recommendations on a 6.5" dedicated midbass (not 6.9 or 7", but 6.5") that will match well with the focal 3" mid and the scan speak illuminator tweeter. I want these woofers to play down to 60 hz and POUND clean and loud while doing it. They will be mounted in a fully deadened door with 2 lbs of clay and 6 ft^2 of dynamat extreme, topped with a layer of fiberglass home insulation and foam rubber weather stripping at the edges of the dynamat. They will be powered with a JL audio 300/2. 150wrms X 2 @ 4 ohms.

Budget is $500 for the pair of woofers, so don't be afraid to suggest something because it's expensive.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> Ok. So if I find a focal authorized dealer, I would want the 3" midranges from the KRX3 set. In order to pair them with the scan speak illuminator tweeters, I would need custom passive crossovers.
> 
> I've asked a few times, but i'm going to keep on asking until somebody comes along who can help - *I need someone who builds custom passive crossovers to either post here or PM me - I am in need of some custom passives - please help!!*


This is the Focal part #

3 KRX3 (165 KRX3 MIDRANGE KIT)

You need to go Active.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

bd5034 said:


> *I need someone who builds custom passive crossovers to either post here or PM me - I am in need of some custom passives - please help!!*


Look, you do NOT want that. Passive crossovers have some trial and error in them unless the exact same setup has been installed in the exact same car. It's the attenuation, usually... it's best to experiment a bit. It's why these guys all want to go active. 

I used to make my own passives for many systems, including Dyne 240 systems using better caps and coils, and I wouldn't mind designing... but you really need to do the T and E yourself. 

Get the xover SW for free somewhere. Figure Z on the chart if you can't set up measurement of the driver. Not too bad - and you will need to make a few : )

I have a lot of parts if you need some...


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

It's SO much easier to go active, and you obviously have the money for it, that I wouldn't even consider a passive setup for what you are doing (mixing drivers).


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

My problem is that I can't fit a fourth amp lol. As it is I'm brainstorming places to hide a processor/equalizer. I was thinking maybe the glove box... 

I suppose I could sell the ARC audio FD 100.2 or something and get a 4ch amp, but 4ch amps are much larger than 2ch, and I don't think I could fit it. 

This also raises a new question - how am I ever going to recoup money on all the stuff I bought? Just because I have a large budget doesn't mean I like throwing money down the toilet.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

bd5034 said:


> My problem is that I can't fit a fourth amp lol. As it is I'm brainstorming places to hide a processor/equalizer. I was thinking maybe the glove box...
> 
> I suppose I could sell the ARC audio FD 100.2 or something and get a 4ch amp, but 4ch amps are much larger than 2ch, and I don't think I could fit it.
> 
> This also raises a new question - how am I ever going to recoup money on all the stuff I bought? Just because I have a large budget doesn't mean I like throwing money down the toilet.


We all lose money here.

You aren't the first to buy gear, then change your mind, then sell your stuff at a loss. I've done it more than I care to admit.

Maybe you should look at some small class D amps.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

class D? for front stage?


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

bd5034 said:


> class D? for front stage?


Sure. Many people do it.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

The Class D Amp was a great suggestion especially when you have limited space, that's there strong point. Have you considered installing the Amps under the seats? 

As stated before the reason we go Active is so we can mix different Drivers and learn how to tune.

I just consider the cost as an investment in my education.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

michaelsil1 said:


> You probably have to contact an Authorized Focal Dealer and ask for a discount.
> If it's around the $300.00 each range then go with the Focal 3W2BE instead it's definitely a winner.


One might be able to find a set of the Be 3 inchers for $500?....correct me if I am wrong.

Man, you guys sure are giving this guy the run around....First you talk him out of Focals....Then you try to talk him back into Focals  That's funny!
The truth is....Focal seems to have a love it or hate it type of position in this market. I know some that just love their Focal Be sets and those 165 KRX3 look very similar except with the K2 cones. I am sure some will go crazy over those. However, there are many that feel the Focals are colored and are not worth the asking price. IMO, speakers are the most personal thing in a system and the sound of one brand varies more so than decks or amps, etc.
If you like FOCALS and want to spend $1200 on them then that is your choice. But have you heard FOCAL speakers at all? Have you heard the Be set? If you know what the speakers are about and really want them and don't mind spending that kind of cash for them then GO FO IT!

If not, then you are at the right place. There is a lot one can get for $1200. *If I was not sure what I wanted and had $1200 to drop on the front stage, I would buy several drivers and find the ones that I like and sell the rest. This way you get the drivers that not only work best together in YOUR car but are what YOU like.*

I think your main concern with getting a mid in the sail panels is space. Those FOCALs are supposed to work in a space as small as 0.3 liters but I wonder if you even have that much space? What vehicle? Finding another driver that will work might be tough...you might have to use a higher crossover point?

SO.....What drivers are going to give you GREAT sound yet save you some cash? What type of sound are you after? Many want a smooth, balanced, yet dynamic sound. Some want and edge with sheer impact, etc, etc. Here are some DIY drivers to try:

For a midrange: 
The Fountek FR88-EX 3" has been getting talk tested pretty well. I would try this one out. Madisound has the driver for about $50 a set:
Fountek FR88-EX 3" Full Range from Madisound

Also try the Peerless 830986, 3" Full Range for about $30 a set
Peerless 830986, 3" Full Range from Madisound

For Tweeters:
Try the ADI CeraDome Tweeter to see what the talk is about. Not sure when and under what name these will be available.
CeraDome Tweeter

The Seas Neo 27TAFNC/G tweets are another to try.

There are so many others to try as you go up in price but on the high side the Scan-Speak Illuminators are very nice. I was lucky to find a used set myself.

For Midbasses:
I would save cash on midbasses and just pick up the Peerless SLS 6.5 for $90 at Madisound and put some power on them. The SLS drivers have great output and blend well. Put the remainder of the $200, $300, $400 that you might spend on other drivers towards more power for the Peerless.

Just do a search on the forum and on the net on these drivers.

So if you went with the Scan Illum tweets, Fountek mids, SLS midbasses you are looking at about *$506!* Then you could pick up a Audison Bit One or P9 combo for $700-$900, or DRZ9255 $500-$800 to control the 4-way system.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

I don't now what your power needs are and what you are doing for subs? However, myself, I picked up the Clarion amps for some clean yet fairly small and powerful power that does not break the bank.

You could do a:
APX4361 (90w x 4) class A/B- $220 ebay or Amazon
DPX2251(180W x 2 ) Class G/H - $159.95 Amazon.com
DPX1851 ([email protected] 2 Ohms)Class D - $169.85 Amazon.com
--------------
1570 watts for about $550. These are nice amps....and they are not that large either
12-1/4" x 10-1/8" x 2-3/8" and for the sub amp is: 13-5/8" x 10-1/8" x 2-3/8"

Check out the link below and see my comments and pictures:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-h-amps-crutchfield-very-similiar-arc-ks.html


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

The Focal 3W2BE has a very high rating on this Forum. I haven't heard anyone say they were colored.


*I can say that I really like* and have the *Focal 3W2BE Mid Range*.

The Scan-Speak Illunminator Tweeter is very Sweet and has great top end dispersion; I've heard them installed in another members car and I was very impressed.

Sometimes really good comes at a price. If price is a concern they're a lot of good inexpensive Drivers that can be had.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I thought class D amps put out distorted power, and they were good only for subs?

Edit - if I can recoup at least $600 for my ARC amp and Morel mids (600 for both combined) then price won't be a factor at all, and my budget can go up to $2k.

Right now it's about $1400.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

bd5034 said:


> I thought class D amps put out distorted power, and they were good only for subs?


That is completely false.

Besides, if they put out "distorted power", no one would want them for subs either.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

full range class D is what everyone is talking about. Class G or H, tripath or ICEpower as examples.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> I thought class D amps put out distorted power, and they were good only for subs?





89grand said:


> That is completely false.
> 
> Besides, if they put out "distorted power", no one would want them for subs either.


Amps aren't going to make or break a good sounding system; Drivers have a much bigger impact on sound.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

wow, and I thought I knew what I was talking about. what the heck is the big deal about class D then, and why is class a/b so much larger/more expensiv?


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

If you don't have your install right and deadened, your tuning dialed in I doubt you'll hear a difference in Amps.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

High end brands make full range d amps, like Genesis and Arc. Efficiency is king.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

bd5034 said:


> wow, and I thought I knew what I was talking about. what the heck is the big deal about class D then, and why is class a/b so much larger/more expensiv?


Class D is different technology. It's more efficient, and creates a lot less heat so a much smaller heat sink is possible.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

what's the point of class A/B then? is there *any* benefit to using it?


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

bd5034 said:


> what's the point of class A/B then? is there *any* benefit to using it?


Some people feel they sound better. I don't feel that way.

I think class D makes a lot of sense for a few reasons like efficiency and size.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

89grand said:


> *Some people feel they sound better*. I don't feel that way.
> 
> I think class D makes a lot of sense for a few reasons like efficiency and size.


I think they sound better.

The point is size and efficiency.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Depends on design....not all Class D/G/H/T are designed the same 

But that being said, I didnt prefer the Alpine PDX that I had but size/power wise it was very nice....everything has pros/cons


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

michaelsil1 said:


> The Focal 3W2BE has a very high rating on this Forum. I haven't heard anyone say they were colored.


Well, you must have forgot that the originator of this forum was not too hot on the Utopia Be line or the car line in general. He thought there were many other drivers that were just as good or better for less money. He liked some of the home DIY raw drivers however. These are his quotes:



> "I still think there are so many cheaper, better alternatives to getting big gains in SQ than to purchase the 3w2 and add it to your setup."





> "Personally, even if they were $100/pr I still wouldn't use them. They still suffer from all the problems that past Focal inverted hard dome tweeters do... namely beaming, poor distortion performance, inadequate rear chambering, and obvious metallic coloration. None of those characteristics belong to installation though; you aren't going to improve distortion performance or top end dispersion by "installing" them differently.
> Whether or not you like how they sound subjectively is another matter. I've heard them numerous times in different rooms and different speaker iterations and still haven't grown to like them."





> "Accurate Imho is perhaps not the best word for Focal hard dome tweeters. Colored, I think would be much more appropriate. It's also a tweeter you wouldn't want to cross over too low.
> The Utopia line mid/basses on the other hand are quite good though. Not too much experience with the newest super pricey car stuff, but the 6w4311 is one of the best compact 6.5" mids I've used hands down. I'm sure the drivers used in the JM Labs Utopia are even better. "





> "Back when Focal was still in the DIY market, I always preferred their raw drivers to their car offerings. They kept those up to date, while the car line only got an update every long while. Ever compare a 6w2 to a 6w4311... the 6w2 still had old cupped spiders, and a thick heavy cone... while the 6w4311 had flat spiders, a t shaped pole, and the latest version of the VV cone.
> Still wondering what makes the 4w3 so special... it doesn't have a beryllium cone, the motor doesn't seem to be anything extraordinary, and Focal generally hasn't been known as a designer of ultra low distortion drivers..."





> "Personally, I like the sound of the 6w4311 which is more open sounding than the older 6w2 utopia which I feel is darker, more recessed. I don't like Focal tweeters at all... colored, hard to tune, strained."





> "If you're looking for a Focal sound, I'd suggest trying the Focal 6w4311b. It's a 6.5" that runs a bit cheaper than the car line, but utilizes the latest technologies and excellent QC. I prefer it greatly over the old 6w2 Utopia, but can't comment on the new one as I've never used it personally."





> "I rarely make any blanket recommendations for drivers.
> What I'm saying is for a beginner, I don't think a 3-way setup is the answer... especially one that incorporates expensive drivers.
> Some of the best sounding cars are the one's that are the EASIEST to tune, not necessarily the ones with the most money in them, or with the fanciest equipment.
> 
> ...





> "Even if it's not what you want to hear, we're just trying to help.
> Generally, I tend to recommend against using esoteric, expensive drivers for the beginner. Not that I don't think you can learn, or that it's very difficult (although you can read dozens of tuning horror stories on this board alone), but simply that you don't have the experience yet to really pick the right driver for the job/car. Like I said before, the most expensive, best measured, or the most highly recommended isn't always going to be what you need/best for YOU.
> 
> Some things to think about...
> ...


There are others that feel this way.

Anyway, I have a friend and a friend of his that loves the Be mids and tweets mated with Excel 8's.(The other guy has the 3-way Be set) His are ears I trust as well. I thought the drivers do a nice job in his install. But the Be drivers are not for everyone...I say they are more for someone that has an advanced understanding of system design, setup, and tuning.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

hm. so here's what I have:

Cadance Daytona 1000.1 powering my SI mag 12"

JL audio 300/2 and ARC audio FD 100.2 - I can use them w/e way would be best.

*or* I could sell the ARC amp since I just bought it and it's 10/10 cosmetic and I still have the box and instuction manual. If I sold the ARC amp and could figure out a way to get really creative and shoehorn a 4-ch amp into the car, I could easily go 3-way active.

It's way over my head, I'd need alot of help.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> what's the point of class A/B then? is there *any* benefit to using it?


Not all ears are the same, some claim to hear differences...just as some have perfect pitch and kids can hear high freqs better, etc, etc.

I think the hybrid class G/H amps make the most sense to me in terms of the best of both worlds..i.e....Class G/H amps have Class D switching type power supplies with a Class A/B output stage. The Clarion DPX2251 that I mentioned does 180 watts x 2, was tested to be 72% efficient (25% better than Class A/B and as good or better than some class D amps) and is 12" x 10" in size. The Alpine PDX-2.150 does 150W x 2 and measures 10-1/8" x 7-9/16 An Arc Audio FD 2200 does 100wx2 and measures 16 3/4"" x 10 3/8"


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

WLDock said:


> Not all ears are the same, some claim to hear differences...just as some have perfect pitch and kids can hear high freqs better, etc, etc.
> 
> I think the hybrid class G/H amps make the most sense to me in terms of the best of both worlds..i.e....Class G/H amps have Class D switching type power supplies with a Class A/B output stage. The Clarion DPX2251 that I mentioned does 180 watts x 2, was tested to be 72% efficient (25% better than Class A/B and as good or better than some class D amps) and is 12" x 10" in size. The Alpine PDX-2.150 does 150W x 2 and measures 10-1/8" x 7-9/16 An Arc Audio FD 2200 does 100wx2 and measures 16 3/4"" x 10 3/8"


I already have two amps, what I need is to swap the 100.2 for a 4-channel to power a 3" mid and a tweeter. The only problem is that the 4 channel can't take up more room than the 2 channel.


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## drtool (Nov 26, 2007)

If you have any tunes in your car keep them. Go listen to some local builds to get a hint what direction you want to go. Get a cheep set of speakers with xover's see how they sound. Then practice going active with that set. If you blow them up you have not lost much and learned a lot hopefully.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I already have expensive speakers in there, and am running active.....

I'm wanting to switch my speakers since they're not exactly what I want, and need to change amps from 100.2 to 100.4


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## zwc0442 (Oct 24, 2008)

If you have the room the I-5100 from zapco is a really good amp to run a 3 way front plus sub. It has 7 channels at 25x2 50x4 and 400 for the sub all at 4 ohms. I've been using one for a few months now and it works great. It is def putting out much more than the rated power as well. They can be bought for around $500 new. There still not on there website though.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I like my stereo *loud* - I'm running 1500wrms right now and I crank it. I don't think a one-amp solution will work unless it's got outrageous amounts of power, something like 100x4 150x2 1000x1


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

WLDock said:


> Well, you must have forgot that the originator of this forum was not too hot on the Utopia Be line or the car line in general. He thought there were many other drivers that were just as good or better for less money. He liked some of the home DIY raw drivers however.



I know he doesn't like the Be Tweeter and that a lot of members are not to fond of the Focal Tweeters.

There aren't a lot of 3" Drivers that can really perform and the ones I've seen are not really that cheap. The ones I've heard are the HAT L3, Dynaudio Esotar 3" and the Focal 3W2BE.


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## nycsurfer (Mar 8, 2009)

I wonder how many of you actually have listened to KRX3 before lecturing him on his buying choice . 

I'll have a set of KRX3 /Audison bitone/Audison 5 channel running on my suv next week ,you are more than welcome to come by and get some listening experience before you make another move.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Will definately come listen to that once it's set up.

No matter what I decide on, I'm going to need different amplification.

Any suggestions for a small-footprint amp that puts out 100x4 rms @ 4 ohms? It can't be any larger than 10 x 16 X 2.5

Edit: My budget is about $500 tops.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Eclipse XA4000
125 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms (175 watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms)
15-3/4"W x 2-5/16"H x 10-1/4"D


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Megalo said:


> Eclipse XA4000
> 125 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms (175 watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms)
> 15-3/4"W x 2-5/16"H x 10-1/4"D



Perfect. That eclipse amp is exactly what i was looking for. I wonder, rather than sell my morel mids, would they be a fair trade for that amp? or would somebody be getting the raw end of that deal?


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

bd5034 said:


> Will definately come listen to that once it's set up.
> 
> No matter what I decide on, I'm going to need different amplification.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to peddle my own gear, but I have a brand new in the box Alpine PDX-4.150 that's 150W X 4 and it's tiny (10-1/8" x 7-9/16" x 2-7/16) that I would let go for well under $500.

http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=PDX-4.150&lang=en&tab=F

Just like you, I change my mind from time to time and have again. So I'm moving in a different direction.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

WLDock said:


> Edited for length
> ...
> *So if you went with the Scan Illum tweets, Fountek mids, SLS midbasses you are looking at about $506! Then you could pick up a Audison Bit One or P9 combo for $700-$900, or DRZ9255 $500-$800 to control the 4-way system*.


Excellent post above.

This configuration would be one hell of a setup. The P9 may be the better choice if he has the space to mount the DEQ-P9 processor along with it. If not, go with an all in one, in dash monster in the DRZ-9255.

Honestly, this setup is pretty killer on paper and I'd DEFINITELY rock that.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Why not just add another JL amp to match your 300/2?

You could do a 300/4 for the mids and tweets and use the 300/2 for the midbasses.
You could also consider an Arc FD4150 to match the Arc you already have.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

89grand said:


> I'm not trying to peddle my own gear, but I have a brand new in the box Alpine PDX-4.150 that's 150W X 4 and it's tiny (10-1/8" x 7-9/16" x 2-7/16) that I would let go for well under $500.
> 
> Alpine Electronics of America, Inc. - PDX-4.150
> 
> Just like you, I change my mind from time to time and have again. So I'm moving in a different direction.



That amp looks sexy. I might just take you up on that. 

I am going to take the morel mids out of my doors tonight and will hopefully have pics up tomorrow - they're going up on the classifieds. Here's a link to them on Madisound (that's where I bought them) Morel Supreme SCM634 Carbon Fiber Cone Midrange from Madisound

They've only been used for about a week, and i still have the box.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> Will definately come listen to that once it's set up.
> 
> No matter what I decide on, I'm going to need different amplification.
> 
> ...


A Zuki 4ch is 16.5 x 9.5, and definitely puts out more than 100W.


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

Also, since it seems like space is a premium, why not sell all three amps you have and replace them with alpine PDX or the like? 

Off of ebay you could get the 1.1000, 4.100 and 4.150 for under $1200 shipped

That would be 1000x1 watts for the sub 200x2 for the midbasses (4.100 bridged) and 150x4 for the mids and tweets. All in the same footprint for each amp. I would think that should be sufficient power to tear your head off.

Is there some attachment to the current amps you have? Or do you just feel like they're not worth much? I know the JL's have very good resale, so long as it's in reasonable cosmetic shape. I feel there's a lot to be said for having cosmetically matching amps and if I were putting in a system on that kind of budget I'd certainly want them to match and not look hodgepodgy (imo)

Combine these amps with the sub you already have (assuming the impedance will work with the PDX's 2-4 ohm rating) and the aforementioned 3 way setup, and the DRZ-9255 and you're really getting there. So for about 1k over your current 1200 dollar budget for speakers, which you should be able to narrow down to only a couple hundred bucks with the sale of your current morels and amps and you've got the whole system done with active processing. 

I think a set up like this would serve multiple purposes.
1) Easily upgradeable vs passive approach. Swap drivers in and out at will with easy adjustment of crossover/TA/EQ/gain
2) Less space consumed, the PDX's are really small and easy to stash in a car. Your space issues should almost disappear with these amps. 
3) Ability to create a nicer aesthetic in the car, doesn't have the hodge-podgy feel of 3 different brand amplifiers installed. (This is just my personal opinion, but for the type of money you're spending, I don't see why you would not want it to also look nice)


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

89grand said:


> I'm not trying to peddle my own gear, but I have a brand new in the box Alpine PDX-4.150 that's 150W X 4 and it's tiny (10-1/8" x 7-9/16" x 2-7/16) that I would let go for well under $500.
> 
> Alpine Electronics of America, Inc. - PDX-4.150
> 
> Just like you, I change my mind from time to time and have again. So I'm moving in a different direction.


That would work very well for your needs!


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

nycsurfer said:


> I wonder how many of you actually have listened to KRX3 before lecturing him on his buying choice .


I heard that this was a very good sounding Component with the ability to do a lot of tweaking.


I think since it wasn't from an Authorized Dealer he changed his mind.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

The only reason I didn't throw everything out and re-build from scratch is that I wanted to save unnecessary hassle. I suppose we're beyond that at this point.

The only thing I'm firm on keeping is my SI mag. I've never enjoyed a sub as much as that one :-D


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> The only reason I didn't throw everything out and re-build from scratch is that I wanted to save unnecessary hassle. I suppose we're beyond that at this point.
> 
> The only thing I'm firm on keeping is my SI mag. I've never enjoyed a sub as much as that one :-D


So what are you considering right now?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Right now I'm thinking about posting a feeler to see what I could scrape together from selling the JL 300/2, the ARC 100.2, and the morel mids. 

I'm going to keep the cadance amp simply because it does the job well and I like the way it looks.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I'm also thinking of /wrist, this is getting out of control very quickly lol


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

OH NOES!


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> I'm also thinking of /wrist, this is getting out of control very quickly lol


What is wrist?


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## SoundChaser (Apr 3, 2009)

Give Don from unexpected creations a call, located in NJ. He’s very knowledgeable and is authorized to sell some of the finest audio gear on the planet. He can help you out in every aspect of your install. If only I met him sooner, I would have saved myself a lot of time and money.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Nah.. if you decide on the Focal set, then get it. I think if you do that though you should def. get it from an auth. vendor. Going piecemeal like many of us do, that's not nearly as important since warranties sorta go void just because of the way things are when you do it yourself. But with an expense like the passive Focals, you'd better be covered if something goes "poof", you know?

IMO, I hate Focal tweeters. Before Tweeter left Vegas, I had a chance to audition their very best gear in their very best room. Sure enough, Focal is what they picked, completely Focal w/ their amps and that overpriced EQ. All I could think when I turned it up to listen at more than a whisper was "Ow...Ow....Owwww!" These damn things fatigue me quickly, mostly because it just doesn't sound "right", you know? 

I personally find ring radiator tweeters my favorite, so I recommend taking a peek at some of those if you can take advantage of their dispersion characteristics. Either that or the Illuminator tweet from Scan if you can fit the narrow but long chamber. As far as midrange, I tend to listen to Zaph on suggestions for these. Midbass? Well, most of us would say to get the biggest damn thing that will fit in the door. I tend to agree, as long as the efficiency is matched right.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

michaelsil1 said:


> What is wrist?


"Slash" wrist.

/wrist.

Get it?


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

The Clarion amps that I listed are good amps that are actually designed by Robert Zeff, the same guy/team that designed your ARC Foose amp as well as other ARC amps. I think they are a good value as I got mine for even less than the current prices.
If you have nice amps there is no need to replace them. But, if you can sell them and pick up a new set of good clean power for cheap, why not...this is car audio....many change their amps by the season. 

APX4361 (90 x 4) - 12-1/4" x 10-1/8" x 2-3/8" - $220 ebay or Amazon
DPX2251 (180 x 2) - 12-1/4" x 10-1/8" x 2-3/8" - $159.95 Amazon.com $175 Crutchfield
DPX11551(1550 x 1 @ 2 Ohms)-16-3/4" x 10-1/8" x 2-3/8"- $299.99 Crutchfield, Amazon
------------------------------------
2270 watts for $680 ~$0.30 a watt They are nice looking amps as well:

Picture:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/WLDock/Car Audio/P1000550.jpg
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-h-amps-crutchfield-very-similiar-arc-ks.html


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## rkb993 (Apr 10, 2009)

Does anyone in North Texas have a set of KRX2/3 I could hear in a tuned situation?


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## ibanzil (Jun 29, 2008)

Well if you give that guys suv a listen and he has it set up good, I'm pretty damn sure ure gonna get the focals. Either way the speakers are last on ure to do list.... Deaden like hell, get all your wiring ready, get termination ends, baffles, and if you plan on competing make sure to plan ahead so everything looks nice.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok so as it stands:

On one hand, keep it simple - get the Focal set, get a processor, run them quasi-active.

On the other hand, get in depth - 
Two new Alpine PDX amps, processor, scan speak illuminator tweeters, undecided 3" midrange (of similar quality), 6.5" SLS midbass woofers. Run 3-way active.

I'm assuming both of these setups can be had for $2k or under, so my question is this - How large will the performance gap be?

I'm leaning heavily toward the 3-way active simply because you guys got me excited to do a true DIY, but is there a huge performance difference too?


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> Ok so as it stands:
> 
> On one hand, keep it simple - get the Focal set, get a processor, run them quasi-active.
> 
> ...


Active, you now have the ability to tweak tweak tweak.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

The focals are probably nice, I would like to hear them sometime to see what their fabric tweeter sounds like


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

michaelsil1 said:


> Active, you now have the ability to tweak tweak tweak.


And with all that tweaking you might not be happy with the outcome


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

BeatsDownLow said:


> And with all that tweaking you might not be happy with the outcome






No Sh*t


I'm still tweaking


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I really want the focal midrange, but if it comes down to that I can purchase it individually. 

I keep hearing bad things about the focal tweeters and great things about the scan speak illuminator. In fact, the scan speak illuminator was even suggested to me several times on caraudio.com, and I rarely heard anyone gush positivity about a tweeter over there. 97% of the posts were about subwoofers =) I'm grateful, that's how I found out about the SI mag.

Edit: I need to stop talking about my mag, people are going to think that either I have an erotic fixation with it, or that I work for SI.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I'd recommend whatever you do, go fully active. Just sorta figure that in regardless of your driver choice. That way you can adapt and adjust to your heart's delight.

I think the biggest difference you'll ever notice is the difference in installation, and preparation. Then tuning, then drivers, then amps.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

just FYI

Regardless of driver choice, I'm getting a processor and will tune the stereo. I have no idea how to do this, so I will need a ton of help.

The install is going to be almost identical for both driver options. It will be clean and well damped either way.


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

Going fully active is the only choice. I think that a good number of members on this forum would tell you that. Having run speakers passive, and then switching the same drivers over to active all else the same and hearing the difference is all it takes, and a lot of us have done that. 

Active, Active, Active. It's the ONLY way to go


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

DaveRulz said:


> Active, Active, Active. It's the ONLY way to go




epper:


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

michaelsil1 said:


> epper:


lol... the pepper makes an appearance.....

so I'll go 3-way active either way then.

Shopping list definites: two Alpine PDX amps, sound processor 

Driver choice -> Focal KRX3 set or 

Scan Speak illuminator tweeters, undecided 3" mid, SLS 6.5" woofers

*now* - performance gap?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I think I probably should have said this earlier. Although the car is well deadened.... it's still a convertible, and I have a full exhaust headers all the way back. It's not an ideal listening environment by any means. It also means the speakers need to get extroadinarily loud for highway driving or else you can hear the drone of the v8.


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

From my experience (which is limited to two way set ups) I would say that you're better off saving the money on the focals and going with the DIY drivers. If all else remains the same (ie amps, processor etc) the difference in sound between the DIY set and the Focal set will probably be negligible. and if you only spend 500-600 on a set of drivers vs 1200, you've theoretically got more budget to try some different things 

Edit: Given the above post...No question, without a doubt, get the DIY drivers. You WON'T be able to hear ANY difference with the car moving. GUARANTEED. Save the money.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

DaveRulz said:


> From my experience (which is limited to two way set ups) I would say that you're better off saving the money on the focals and going with the DIY drivers. If all else remains the same (ie amps, processor etc) the difference in sound between the DIY set and the Focal set will probably be negligible. and if you only spend 500-600 on a set of drivers vs 1200, you've theoretically got more budget to try some different things


I'm thinking of doing the focal 3" midrange either way, so basically what it comes down to is the scan speak tweeters vs the focal tweeters, and the SLS woofers vs the focal woofers - which will out-perform?


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> I'm thinking of doing the focal 3" midrange either way, so basically what it comes down to is the scan speak tweeters vs the focal tweeters, and the SLS woofers vs the focal woofers - which will out-perform?


You already know my vote Scan-Speak Illuminator Tweeter. 


This Focal Driver is pretty awesome (npdangs comment: 6w4311 is one of the best compact 6.5" mids I've used hands down); you might want to see if you can find it.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Is it outright better than the SLS6.5? Or are the comparable? When it comes to the tweeters, the prices are probably comparable, but in this case the prices aren't comparable at all - the focal mid will probably cost 500% more. I want to make sure that it's actually worth it.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

You'd be hard pressed to find a better mid than the SLS for the money. I would really doubt the Focal is worth that much more.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

89grand said:


> You'd be hard pressed to find a better mid than the SLS for the money. I would really doubt the Focal is worth that much more.


That Focal is the Mid Bass Driver npdang runs; I've heard it in somebody else's car. I don't think it's that much money if you can find it.


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

I'm not in a position to tell you, I haven't heard either, but like I said. In your situation, you'll be had pressed to tell any difference when the vehicle is under way. I'd go the DIY route. I think it's safe to say the Scan tweets are nicer, at least based on what people generally say about each set, and I'm pretty confident that the peerless SLS would make an adequate amount of midbass for you. I think there are some reviews of them on this site somewhere. 

Either way, when you factor in the cost, it's at least worth trying the SLS's first, you can always sell them if they aren't what you really want and you'll only be down a few bucks in relation to the total you are spending.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

DaveRulz said:


> I'm not in a position to tell you, I haven't heard either, but like I said. In your situation, you'll be had pressed to tell any difference when the vehicle is under way. I'd go the DIY route. I think it's safe to say the Scan tweets are nicer, at least based on what people generally say about each set, and I'm pretty confident that the peerless SLS would make an adequate amount of midbass for you. I think there are some reviews of them on this site somewhere.
> 
> Either way, when you factor in the cost, it's at least worth trying the SLS's first, you can always sell them if they aren't what you really want and you'll only be down a few bucks in relation to the total you are spending.


Great point; I don't think that Focal driver is easy to find.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Is npdang using the Focal as a midbass driver or a midrange driver?


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> Is npdang using the Focal as a midbass driver or a midrange driver?


I don't know he hasn't made an appearance at any of our meets; Eng (dual700) would know. dbiegel has them playing Mid Bass and Mid Range, they really sound great.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> I'm leaning heavily toward the 3-way active simply because you guys got me excited to do a true DIY, but is there a huge performance difference too?


Remember, the K.I.S.S. concept is the simplest way at attemping good sound in a car. The basic mid and tweet is the was to go if trying to keep things simple. O.T.O..H, a three-way front has to be one of the thoughest configurations to set up in a car. Some installs need little work and others NEVER sound right....even after months of tunning.

Nonetheless, a three-way can help in overcoming the bad locations in a car and can be very helpful.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

WLDock said:


> Remember, the K.I.S.S. concept is the simplest way at attemping good sound in a car. The basic mid and tweet is the was to go if trying to keep things simple. O.T.O..H, a three-way front has to be one of the thoughest configurations to set up in a car. Some installs need little work and others NEVER sound right....even after months of tunning.
> 
> Nonetheless, a three-way can help in overcoming the bad locations in a car and can be very helpful.


Some people give up and go back to a simple Two Way Front. Tuning is a *****!


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

Keep it simple...for someone who doesn't have an idea on what to do...you'll have better results going passives just as long as you install them right. Just get the KRX3. You could go active along the way.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

invecs said:


> Keep it simple...for someone who doesn't have an idea on what to do...you'll have better results going passives just as long as you install them right. Just get the KRX3. You could go active along the way.


Unless those speakers are placed right next to each other (for time alignment purposes), I do not agree.


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

fourthmeal said:


> Unless those speakers are placed right next to each other (for time alignment purposes), I do not agree.


That's why I said...installed right...hehehe.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> I think I probably should have said this earlier. Although the car is well deadened.... it's still a convertible, and I have a full exhaust headers all the way back. It's not an ideal listening environment by any means. It also means the speakers need to get extroadinarily loud for highway driving or else you can hear the drone of the v8.


OK, I missed this part....All bets are off! I really wonder is you need to mess with a 3"? I can see now that you are going to have issues with that FOCAL at high volumes..(Some have had issues with bottoming out at volume in certain enclosures) .You are going to have to use a high crossover point....and I think your enclosure will be on the small side anyway in the sail panels. Forget about 170Hz-200Hz crossover point....I think the expensive mid will need to be cutoff at 300Hz-400Hz? Are you sure you can't squeeze a higher output 4" in the kick panels? 

Maybe a set of the Seas W18NX and the Scan Illum tweets is the route you should take? Put some power on them active and you will be all set? Maybe not? You have decent drivers in ther already???? Your currents amps should be fine, maybe get a processor?

I think you have a lot of trial and error before you will find out what works...we can talk all day about equipment but given your design goals....you are going to have to find your own way out of the trenches. At this point, I don't think there is much that we can do to help given the fact that you already have expensive drivers in but have yet to state what is lacking and what you are looking to improve on. I don't know what to tell you? I will back out of this one.

Walt


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

WLDock said:


> OK, I missed this part....All bets are off! I really wonder is you need to mess with a 3"? I can see now that you are going to have issues with that FOCAL at high volumes..(Some have had issues with bottoming out at volume in certain enclosures) .You are going to have to use a high crossover point....and I think your enclosure will be on the small side anyway in the sail panels. Forget about 170Hz-200Hz crossover point....I think the expensive mid will need to be cutoff at 300Hz-400Hz? Are you sure you can't squeeze a higher output 4" in the kick panels?
> 
> Maybe a set of the Seas W18NX and the Scan Illum tweets is the route you should take? Put some power on them active and you will be all set? Maybe not? You have decent drivers in ther already???? Your currents amps should be fine, maybe get a processor?
> 
> ...


I have a lot of Power going to my Mid Range and it does just fine.


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## dddhhh09 (May 23, 2009)

I have the Focal 165KRX2. Been running the K2P's for years. The new ones make the K2P's sound like wal mart speakers. All new design, the tweeter feels like it weights a pound. My installer told he has been installing for 20 years and has never heard a tweeter that produces that clean of sound.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

I like how those comes with the pod/enclosures for the tweet and mid

Focal K2 Power 165 KRX3 - Additional images and video


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

BeatsDownLow said:


> I like how those comes with the pod/enclosures for the tweet and mid
> 
> Focal K2 Power 165 KRX3 - Additional images and video


Keep that up and someone will think you like Focal products.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

michaelsil1 said:


> Keep that up and someone will think you like Focal products.


I dont like some of their speakers some I do. The research they put into them is phenomenal, I do like the adjust ability of the crossovers also


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

BeatsDownLow said:


> I dont like some of their speakers some I do. The research they put into them is phenomenal, I do like the adjust ability of the crossovers also


Yeah the new KRX3 is supposed to give you 1200 different tuning possibility's.


Unfortunately someone has to pay for all the research they put into their product. I say let the Home enthusiast pay for it.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok. So basically what I'm hearing from this is that the focal 3" mid and 6.5" woofer might actually be worth the money. The scan speak illuminator tweeters are far superior to the focal tweeters, correct?


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

why not an excellent 2way setup? 3way is alot harder to tune.

I think "Seas Excel W18NX or Scan Revelator mids + Scan illum tweeters" would be an amazing setup!

the Scan tweeter's would be even much nicer tweeter's compared to those of the focal be's which are twice the price! IMHO.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

farshad said:


> why not an excellent 2way setup? 3way is alot harder to tune.
> 
> I think "Seas Excel W18NX or Scan Revelator mids + Scan illum tweeters" would be an amazing setup!
> 
> the Scan tweeter's would be even much nicer tweeter's compared to those of the focal be's which are twice the price! IMHO.


The Focal Be Tweeter is *Very Temperamental!*


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

farshad said:


> why not an excellent 2way setup? 3way is alot harder to tune.
> 
> I think "Seas Excel W18NX or Scan Revelator mids + Scan illum tweeters" would be an amazing setup!
> 
> the Scan tweeter's would be even much nicer tweeter's compared to those of the focal be's which are twice the price! IMHO.


Midbass response is a serious consideration for him (check out his other thread). That Seas wouldn't cut it. It's a midrange driver.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> Midbass response is a serious consideration for him (check out his other thread). That Seas wouldn't cut it. It's a midrange driver.


The SEAS W18NX is an excellent Mid Range Driver. 



Remember he's in a noisy convertible and a three way front has the potential to get much louder than a two way.


*Yes, a three way front stage is a ***** to tune*.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

michaelsil1 said:


> I have a lot of Power going to my Mid Range and it does just fine.


 Hey, what size enclosure did you end up with and how much power? I know we have been down this road before about the right enclosure for the Be mid. FOCAL states it will work down to 180Hz in a 0.5L enclosue. Nick Wingate reccomends a 1L enclosure. My bud Anthony Davis uses a ~ 0.6L and 0.7L enclosure and states his Qc should be between the Qt of 0.73 and 0.8. He states a cutoff of 300Hz in a 0.5L enclosure will produce very transparent results. I think Jan uses a 1.1L enclosures? There is another guy I know of running them but I forgot what size he is using? I think they might be on the larger side? http://www.cardomain.com/ride/637372

I actually considered the mid myself but I need to work with these 4" PRS gifts that I have. The K2 mid looks interesting but I still think he would need a high crossover point when going with he smallest enclosure at loud listening levels.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Please forgive the interruption.
What’s the difference between a midrange and a midbass in a two way front stage?
Is the term midbass only used in reference to a three way front stage?


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

WLDock said:


> Hey, what size enclosure did you end up with and how much power? I know we have been down this road before about the right enclosure for the Be mid. FOCAL states it will work down to 180Hz in a 0.5L enclosue. Nick Wingate reccomends a 1L enclosure. My bud Anthony Davis uses a ~ 0.6L and 0.7L enclosure and states his Qc should be between the Qt of 0.73 and 0.8. He states a cutoff of 300Hz in a 0.5L enclosure will produce very transparent results. I think Jan uses a 1.1L enclosures? There is another guy I know of running them but I forgot what size he is using? I think they might be on the larger side? http://www.cardomain.com/ride/637372
> 
> I actually considered the mid myself but I need to work with these 4" PRS gifts that I have. The K2 mid looks interesting but I still think he would need a high crossover point when going with he smallest enclosure at loud listening levels.



It has been awhile so I don't remember exactly. My enclosure is just a little smaller than Jan's so I crossed @ 350Hz 12db and 3500Hz 12db it sounds really good and is receiving 130 watts @ 4 ohms per Driver (Audison LRx 2.4). I built the sealed Box to Focal's Specs, but it was too *Big* so I cut it back a little.

*We can't always do what we want in a Car!*


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

Megalo said:


> Please forgive the interruption.
> *What’s the difference between a midrange and a midbass in a two way front stage?*
> Is the term midbass only used in reference to a three way front stage?



If you're running a two way you need a Driver that is capable of doing Both Mid Bass and Mid Range.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

So what do you call it? A mid?


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

Megalo said:


> So what do you call it? A mid?


I don't, I just cuss at them because they don't do both well. :laugh:


Please don't flame me for my ignorance.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I had no idea the difference between midrange and woofer was so large. The JL ZR midwoofers had some reasonably punchy midbass, but the Morel mids truly don't do anything below ~150hz with conviction. It's too bad I couldn't fit a dual 6.5" setup, vocals sound amazingly lifelike on the morel speakers.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Megalo said:


> Please forgive the interruption.
> What’s the difference between a midrange and a midbass in a two way front stage?
> Is the term midbass only used in reference to a three way front stage?


It should be.

If we consider "midbass" to be somewhere in the 80-200 range, or thereabouts, then you'll see that a standard mid/tweet 2-way will be requiring the mid to play across 6 octaves or more. The "midbass", in that sense, is only about 1 or 1.5 octaves.

Generally, when you're looking for a midrange in a 2-way set, you're looking for something FAR different from what you're looking for in a midbass in a 3-way set.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> I had no idea the difference between midrange and woofer was so large. The JL ZR midwoofers had some reasonably punchy midbass, but the Morel mids truly don't do anything below ~150hz with conviction. It's too bad I couldn't fit a dual 6.5" setup, vocals sound amazingly lifelike on the morel speakers.


Some Mid Size Drivers do very well on Mid Range and some do very well on Mid Bass; I haven't found one that does both very well at high volume.


That's why a three way front has the potential to get really loud and stay clean, I can really crank on mine and it stays very clean.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> It should be.
> 
> If we consider "midbass" to be somewhere in the 80-200 range, or thereabouts, then you'll see that a standard mid/tweet 2-way will be requiring the mid to play across 6 octaves or more. The "midbass", in that sense, is only about 1 or 1.5 octaves.
> 
> Generally, when you're looking for a midrange in a 2-way set, you're looking for something FAR different from what you're looking for in a midbass in a 3-way set.


I'm curious what should we call a Driver that is being used for both; Mid?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

michaelsil1 said:


> Some Mid Size Drivers do very well on Mid Range and some do very well on Mid Bass; I haven't found one that does both very well at high volume.
> 
> 
> That's why a three way front has the potential to get really loud and stay clean, I can really crank on mine and it stays very clean.



Exactly. The morel 6.5" do midrange extremely well, the JL 6.5" do midbass reasonably well, but neither does the entire range that I want it to. 

I want every octave to be strikingly detailed, unrelentingly accurate, and loud enough to keep up with my substage at full tilt.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> Exactly. The morel 6.5" do midrange extremely well, the JL 6.5" do midbass reasonably well, but neither does the entire range that I want it to.
> 
> I want every octave to be strikingly detailed, unrelentingly accurate, and loud enough to keep up with my substage at full tilt.


It sounds like you want what I ended up with.

Remember these wise words of wisdom I've learned from other members:

Great SQ is fairly easy at low volumes, but it is extremely difficult at high volume. I wonder if that is the reason there isn't really the term SQL


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I don't need the loudest stereo in the state, nor do I need the finest SQ system either - I want the best mix of both that I personally can achieve given my constraints.

I'm pretty realistic - I know that I'll never be able to run a top-notch SQ system in my car. At this point my ultimate goal is to improve the quality of my daily commute significantly by upgrading my stereo. Pretty modest IMO.

Before anyone asks, yes I drive a modded Mustang to work every day. It's absolutely awful on gas and it rides like a go-kart, but I love the car with all my heart and wouldn't trade it for the world.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> I don't need the loudest stereo in the state, nor do I need the finest SQ system either - I want the best mix of both that I personally can achieve given my constraints.


You already have all the suggestions you need.

I foresee the SLS, Focal, Scan combination sounding like a really kick ass system.

BTW

I don't have the loudest SQL System around here (So. Cal) that honor goes to cvjoint hands down.

SPL BigRed


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> Midbass response is a serious consideration for him (check out his other thread). That Seas wouldn't cut it. It's a midrange driver.


But i think it's a midbass/midrange driver. and didn't the Excel driver do a nice job of producing awesome midbass in the np's review?


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

farshad said:


> But i think it's a midbass/midrange driver. and didn't the Excel driver do a nice job of producing awesome midbass in the np's review?


My opinion:

Outstanding Driver = Yes

Awesome Mid Bass = No


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

farshad said:


> But i think it's a midbass/midrange driver. and didn't the Excel driver do a nice job of producing awesome midbass in the np's review?


It's all relative. As Michael has been saying, it's hard to do both well in high output systems. High excursion, broadband frequency extension, low inductance-high power handling, good polar response are several things that don't mate well.

Things are much easier at low volumes. They're a little harder at moderate volumes. High SPL applications though can be a real pain in the ass. He has an inherently high noise floor that is not easy to overcome with traditional approaches.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I have tried my damndest to cut noise in the car. I don't know how many have read my other thread or even perhaps I mentioned it in this thread..... but I have put some serious effort into deadening the car.

I stripped the whole interior and trunk down to bare metal. Every single piece of the interior was out, the seats (front and back), the carpet, the center console, all the way up underneath the dash, the spacer between the trunk/cabin & every panel in the trunk, the plastic pieces on the sides of the rear seats - all removed. I put strips of dynamat extreme on all the metal. (pieces a little larger than my hand, spaced about 8" apart) I then laid down 2 gallons of e-dead liquid. On top of that, I stuck dynamat foam rubber pads in each footwell, and laid down fiberglass home insulation on top of all the e-dead liquid, then re-laid the factory sound deadener on top before putting the carpet back. The doors are now done with 2 lbs of clay and 6 ft^2 of dynamat extreme for each.

I busted my ass to make it quiet inside. The exhaust is just obscenely loud because it has headers + x-pipe + borla straight through mufflers. It also rides hard as hell because I modded the hell out of the suspension with too many things to even list here.

Edit: I also put black foam-rubber weather stripping in the crevices between the door and the body, and also the sealing area of the convertible top so that they seal tighter.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

just one last time before I begin browsing for places to buy

---the scan speak illuminator tweeters are superior to the focal tweeters used in the KRX3 comp set in every way, correct?

I want to make damn sure because the prices are comparable


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## EVcelica (Dec 30, 2008)

bd5034 said:


> ---the scan speak illuminator tweeters are superior to the focal tweeters used in the KRX3 comp set in every way, correct?


I dont think thats true. I can not speak from experience but I have heard the tn53k sound very good. read up a couple posts


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

EVcelica said:


> I dont think thats true. I can not speak from experience but I have heard the tn53k sound very good. read up a couple posts


I know there are some glowing reviews out there, but on this forum people seem to be very wary of focal tweeters in particular; I haven't heard a single bad thing about the scanspeak tweeters though - they seem to be a driver that everyone agrees is top notch


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## EVcelica (Dec 30, 2008)

I'm just saying, all previous focal tweeters were inverted metal. The tn53k is kevlar fiber, so it shouldn"t sound harsh like everyone says the previous ones sounded.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> ---the scan speak illuminator tweeters are superior to the focal tweeters used in the KRX3 comp set in every way, correct?
> I want to make damn sure because the prices are comparable


I really think you are stretching it a bit here in my opinion. I think few here have worked with both tweeters but there are things that I think some are pulling from. 1.) The FOCAL Be tweeter is picky about location and aiming. 2.) The Scan Illums are detailed, smooth and seem to be much easier to work with.

How that all compares to the KRX3 tweeter to YOUR ears, I don't know. I don't think anyone can give you an absolute definitive answer as the superiority of the Illum over the TN53K tweet. The bottom line is that the previous 6000 series Scan tweet was a nice and well respected tweeter. This new Illum is even better. OTOH, I am sure this new TN53K tweet is even better than previous tweets, but It still have the inverted dome and might take more trial and error like previous gen tweets to setup. These are two different tweeters...This is more apples to oranges than apples to apples....that is just the way speakers are...IMO. You might like the FOCALS better than the Scans?

Again, the ball is in your court, you really need to try both to see what works for you. If you try one or the other you will still have a very nice piece of equipment to work with and there is nothing wrong with that if you know what you are doing. 

IMO, I think going with a three-way will help in terms of trying to get more output out of your system but I question trying to get mids in those small sail panel pods. I really think you would choke the hell out of the mid unless you crossover really high. Maybe I am wrong? Maybe a dome might be better? I don't know? SPL and CLEAN takes WORK and TRIAL!

However, I really wander if you have explored kicks? The Q Form kick for the 02 Mustang looks like this:










A custom build set of fiberglass pods like that with a 4" midrange might be something to consider. Put a solid steel grill on them and there should not be anything to worry about.

I think many thought it was unwise to spend $1200 on FOCAL drivers unAuthorized when you are unsure about what you are getting into. This being a DIY forum, we have shown you that you could get some very nice drivers plus processing and/or a deck for about $1200. Maybe get the K2 drivers if you really want them.

The bottom line....is anyone here going to help you with the install and tunning? The SPL portion of your design presents issues that are hard to deal with through words. Reinforement, deadning, aiming, level setting, tuning, retuning, are really what is going to make the difference. Its no fun to spend a bunch of cash then turn it up and the system sound like SH_T! 

Are you REALLY ready to purchase equipment?

If so, don't look back and go all out within your means at maximizing the potential of that equipment.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

EVcelica said:


> I'm just saying, all previous focal tweeters were inverted metal.


That is not true. My old FOCAL EXPERT T1X tweets were inverted domed poly kevlar and were BRIGHT!


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

to WLDock - I'm aware that people have done kick panels in mustangs before. They work well under two circumstances - the car is automatic, and you don't have to reach for the clutch (or you don't mind being uncomfortable) and also the seat has to be positioned back or the speakers will be firing directly into your left leg with no line to your ear. 

My car is a daily driver, I'm not willing to sacrifice a single ounce of drivability for a kick panel - the kick obstructing the dead pedal and clutch position will definately make it less fun to drive. I am running this system active, so I am not worried in the least about having to cross over at a slightly higher frequency on the mids.

Edit: if need be, I can always build dash pods in the corners - there is *plenty* of room to do that.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

You make trade offs in car audio. Kicks are great for helping to equalize path length differences but obstruction such as your legs and center console can hinder the benefits in some installs. I think kick panel installs are one of the marvels in car audio. While they don't work in all situations, I have heard some that produced a full, wide, transparent sound that was at eye level. Yes, our legs get in the way but aiming makes it possible for them to work. Also, I would not have though kicks would work in small vehicles with a sick shift. However, after having a chance to drive down from Michigan to IASCA Finals in South Carolina in my buds SVT Contour with 8" SEAS EXCELS in the kicks. The driving experience was no where near as bad as I originally thought. I was scared to death I was going to kick a hole in the driver but it is funny how quick you make the adjustment. Hearing the grumble from the deep noted exhaust was a very fun driving experience. The car was lowered to the point it handled like a go kart. We took a down hill huge curve going at about 110-120mph with no tire squeal. The driving experience was not hindered by the kick panel pods. In fact, we got pulled over three times on the trip and received two tickets. That was no fun 
Notheless, kicks are a personal choice, some don't want to give up the dead pedal and some cars allow a straight across mounting that allows one to keep the space. In most cases, you will loose the space.

As far as mids and tweets up high, there are trade offs there as well. Now, the drivers are really playing in the near field, the nearside driver is almost in your face. This driver is going to have to be tamed to get a good balanced stereo image as well as a good phantom center. Also, there are the window reflections to deal with. But the good news is that speakers up high make it easy to get the stage up high.

As far as mids forward on the dash, this seems like the route to take but window reflections get worst, however, path length difference get better as the speakers are farther away from you.

SO....You say that having kicks will require the seats to be positioned back. Well, the reality is the speakers will be farther away from your ears than an upper door or dash mount in some cars. So, I would think one would really want the seats back if not running kicks. Nevertheless, I think you should plan on putting a pod on the dash as it is really not too realistic to think that a 3" mid and tweet will fit in the sail panels and have enough room to play? Or am I just trippin'?










And you should be concerned about having to cross the speakers high. If you use the smallest recommended enclosure, I think you will need at least a 300Hz crossover point. If your enclosure is not that large, you might have to go up to the 400Hz range with a steep slope and you might still have colorations? How well is the midbass going to blend in this situation? Maybe you should wait and see before you decide on a midbass? And do you really want to spend a bunch of money for that type of performance? A set of $50-$100 3" mids can get you there. You seem to come across as this is no big deal but it should be....but at least now you are talking about other locations to mount them. Find out where they sound best and will fit....That is where you should put your speakers.

Car audio is about compromises. There is no right or wrong way; one just has to find out how far they are willing to go to chase high fidelity in a vehicle. Maybe you think I am blowing smoke up your ass but I a just trying to be helpful. You are not the first to post on the forums about the big dollars you were about to spend but was not sure what to get or how to install or tune it. I think many here would rather that person go to a good shop or take heed to some of the good advice that others have to offer. But there is no ONE definite answer, you have to take what you can, apply it, and then learn from it. Then and only then can you really find out what works for you.

What ever you decide to do, I just hope you reach your goals with this install....car audio is not easy.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

First off: nice job getting two tickets lol. Been there =) Cops don't like me very much either... even if I'm behaving properly they think I'm doing something wrong because of what I drive. Also... I just have absolutely no faith in kicks for my car, I'm not even considering it anymore. I really think I could get better quality out of dash pods.

I am almost certainly going to put my mids/tweets in dash pods. The speakers will be facing the driver dead on axis with my ears. 

I took pictures of the dash area that I am going to place the pods, it's on my album at photobucket. Pictures by bd3772469 - Photobucket

I'm not quite sure how large the enclosure can be, but I'm certain that I can fit a 3" midrange and tweeter with ease, and that I can have a sealed fiberglass enclosure damped internally with clay. It should be ok. If I have to cross them over at 300hz, so be it. I also may be picking up a rockford processor. More details to come once I get more info on the possible trade with matthew O.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Hey, can you fit a 6x9" driver in the door with mods? As good as the SLS driver is it might be worth your while to check out some Image Dynamics XS69 6x9 drivers that are in the sale section for $250. It does not state if they are just the mids or the complete comp set. If it is the complete set, this might be a way to save some cash while getting a large midbass (more surface area than some 8") in an aready oval shape opening and a set of tweeters. I hear these are very nice on the low end but great in the midrange as well. The tweet is a silk dome and can get loud with the passive but running active a cut will tame this.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/classifieds/60818-image-dynamics-xs69s.html

Here is the set at Woofersetc.com:
XS-69 - Image Dynamics 6x9" 2 Way Component System

Image Dynamics XS69 
150 WATTS 
4 OHMS 
92 dB 
45Hz to 25Khz 
XMAX - 4.5mm each way
3.6” depth
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/products.php?Family_Id=7&Product_Id=36


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I don't think the 6x9 would fit without significant cutting. It would almost certainly fit the metal door hole if I made plates, but I don't want to cut the plastic door panel.


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## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

You wont get a 6x9 in the door. Not while using the stock door skin. Hell an SLS 6 will probably be a tight fit. That door skin doesnt give you much room because of the map pocket.

I have the same car you do, it has its issues to deal with for sure.

I've ran the Alpine scan 2904/6000 variant in the sail panels of my mustang before and they do fine there. I can only imagine the Illum doing even better.

I'm interested to see what you do for dash pods for the mids. I've been thinking about building something like that for a long time just havnt gotten around to it. I did audition some Vifa tg9's in the corners (wrapped in towels) and really enjoyed them. I need to get busy on that.


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## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

Oh yeah and I totally hear you on the no-kickpanels thing. I'm a taller guy and there's no way I could deal with kickpanels in my daily driver mustang. My legs just wouldnt fit comfortably at all.

Plus there's jack **** for room behind the kicks on the driver's side for a flat mounted woofer, there's a bunch of wiring and harnesses there that you would have to relocate (something I'm not willing to do personally).


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

bd5034 said:


> I don't think the 6x9 would fit without significant cutting. It would almost certainly fit the metal door hole if I made plates, but I don't want to cut the plastic door panel.


i think they came with a 5x7/6x8


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

BTA said:


> You wont get a 6x9 in the door. Not while using the stock door skin. Hell an SLS 6 will probably be a tight fit. That door skin doesnt give you much room because of the map pocket.
> 
> I have the same car you do, it has its issues to deal with for sure.
> 
> ...


I'm glad to hear from somebody who drives the same car. Especially as a daily driver. It's a tough car to work with, but I can't imagine driving anything else


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I realized that I have no idea what these focal speakers sound like. I have never heard them in any capacity before, so I'm going to find a place to demo them. It's been said several times that the most important thing is what sounds right to my ear, but I can't know that until I actually hear the speakers. 

If anybody has a set of scan illuminators in New Jersey that I can take a listen to, I'd really like to listen to those as well.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Off topic but since you are in New Jersey, I would give Don (aka 6spdcoupe) at Unexpected Creations in Edison at call. Great guy with access to some top notch equipment and install skills to boot. Might have a few cars for you to audition as well


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

bd5034 said:


> I decided that I'm going to get serious. I ordered a Focal KRX3 comp set. $1200 at sonicelectronix, about $200 cheaper than woofersetc.
> 
> I am going to buy an active crossover/sound processor - so I'll need recommendations on which to purchase. I'm also going to invest the time/energy to learn how to tune a system the right way.
> 
> ...


I've been building crossovers for almost two decades, I have years of experience measuring loudspeakers, and I know a thing or two about audio.

Despite all that, three way crossovers scare the **** out of me. They're so damn hard to get right.

Even with my experience, it would take me weeks or months to perfect one.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE try the stock crossovers that come with the component set before going active.

Designing a three-way crossover is NOT a trivial task.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Patrick Bateman said:


> I've been building crossovers for almost two decades, I have years of experience measuring loudspeakers, and I know a thing or two about audio.
> 
> Despite all that, three way crossovers scare the **** out of me. They're so damn hard to get right.
> 
> ...


I think his plan was to only build (or buy) a two-way crossover for the mid/tweet and then actively cross between those and the midbass. Very common approach.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

That was my original plan. I've been seriously considering 3-way active since I'm probably going to mix drivers in the mid/tweet setup. 
After I take a listen to the KRX3 set I am going to decide whether I want to go with that set, or buy the mid/woofer individually and go with scan illuminator tweets. 

If I end up liking the tweeters from the KRX3 set, I will probably just take it as a set - it would certainly save me hassle of ordering from multiple locations. 

If I do like the focal tweeters and go with the full set, the research I did and the advice I've received won't go to waste, I learned alot about driver matching, crossover points, mounting location, etc. I also did a ton of research on the KRX3 comp set, which I wouldn't have done unless I came here first. 

I'm sort of hoping the focal tweeters sound good to my ears, the passive crossovers on that set give an amazing amount of adjustability. Combined with a signal processor the passives might actually work for the mid/tweet, which would make tuning *much* easier, especially for a novice like me. Who knows?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

oh, also I think I'm going to apply what I've learned here to build some custom home tower speakers out of stuff I've got laying around - just as a fun little project.

Also, regardless of driver choice I am going to be building fiberglass pods on my dash. I will be posting alot of pics on photobucket, and will likely be asking some of you for help.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

bd5034 said:


> That was my original plan. I've been seriously considering 3-way active since I'm probably going to mix drivers in the mid/tweet setup.
> After I take a listen to the KRX3 set I am going to decide whether I want to go with that set, or buy the mid/woofer individually and go with scan illuminator tweets.
> 
> If I end up liking the tweeters from the KRX3 set, I will probably just take it as a set - it would certainly save me hassle of ordering from multiple locations.
> ...


But the sound of a tweeter has more to do with the crossover than the driver itself. If you're listening to a tweeter and hoping it sounds "good", you're wasting your time.

Focus on the crossover and the installation, that's the path to audio nirvana. The choice of speakers is less important than the crossover and the installation.


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## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

Patrick Bateman said:


> But the sound of a tweeter has more to do with the crossover than the driver itself. If you're listening to a tweeter and hoping it sounds "good", you're wasting your time.
> 
> Focus on the crossover and the installation, that's the path to audio nirvana. The choice of speakers is less important than the crossover and the installation.


I'd agree with this.

As an example I'm using the JBL 660gti set right now. I've been screwing around with this and other equipment (Scan 2904/6000 tweets for instance) for a while now, both straight active and with the passive, all kinds of combinations. So far I prefer the JBL tweets with the passive xover (bi-amped). And strangely enough it sounds better with the Waveguide setting on the passive, even though I'm not using the waveguides.

It took a lot of tuning to get fully active to sound as good as they do on the passive. And even then it wasnt quite the same. Not that I'm advocating passive over active, heck if I couldn't bi-amp it I'd stick to fully active for T/A reasons alone.

2-way with the mustang doors is honestly hell to tune in a center image. Which is why I've been considering dash pods like you are for a small midrange. I know for a fact through testing myself that the image is instantly improved with mids on the dash.

I've really enjoyed quite a lot of different equipment in my mustang in all sorts of configurations. The Mustang is really install dependant I've found (like many cars are I imagine). I'd focus on how you want to install it and buy product that fits those needs.

I mean hell, one of my favorite tweeters is the Aura NT1 neo tweeter and it's all of $10 a piece. If you have a midrange you can play up to 3k+ and can get the NT1 aimed correctly they sound amazing. These are very finicky as far as aiming goes though.

Whereas the Scan 2904/6000's I could pretty much put anywhere and they sounded pretty good. But even those there was some trade-offs even against the $10 Auras. (top-end extension for one, but the Scan's are also at the top of my list of tweeters).

Honestly I've used all sorts of tweets and most, when installed and tuned to suit that specific tweeter, were fine and I doubt you could distinguish between them.

I'm rambling here but I'm bored at work.

Bottom line, when you're up at the quality range you're talking about I dont think you have much to worry about as far as tweeters go as long as you can handle installing and tuning them as needed.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

BTA said:


> I'd agree with this.
> 
> As an example I'm using the JBL 660gti set right now. I've been screwing around with this and other equipment (Scan 2904/6000 tweets for instance) for a while now, both straight active and with the passive, all kinds of combinations. So far I prefer the JBL tweets with the passive xover (bi-amped). And strangely enough it sounds better with the Waveguide setting on the passive, even though I'm not using the waveguides.


The owner's manual for your speakers has a ton of great information on how to get good imaging in the car! Looks like JBL did their homework on this one:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Owner's Manual/560GTi660GTiOMrev3_20_07.pdf

I only had a chance to skim it, but the data is excellent. It's interesting that Beyma, JBL and Focal are all doing waveguides in the car now.


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

I apologize for the off-topic! but can you describe the sound of the tweeter in the jbl set? and why do you like it better than the scan 6000?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

hm. My final decision hinges on an actual audition of the focal KRX3. At least I know what to look/listen for, and that the install/tune matters most.


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

Does this mean I am a dumbass for buying Alpine F1 SPX-Z18T 3-ways for $900? Maybe? By the way I find the authorized dealer/warranty discussion interesting. I don't think any DIY speakers have much of if any warranty. Maybe Parts Express if they are returned promptly. So not much difference there. Assuring you don't get fakes is another story.

Good luck and I hope it sounds awesome, or should I say I hope it sounds accurate.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

A different thing IMO...the raw drivers of that set are Scan-speak variants and raw driver pricing is equal with the cost of the passive being added.

That being said, i would rather buy the Focal raw drivers from JM labs


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## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

farshad said:


> I apologize for the off-topic! but can you describe the sound of the tweeter in the jbl set? and why do you like it better than the scan 6000?


I dont necessarily like the JBL better. It just happens to work better currently in my ****-tastic installation.


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> hm. My final decision hinges on an actual audition of the focal KRX3. At least I know what to look/listen for, and that the install/tune matters most.


I've heard the k2p , VR's and the old utopia's but not the Be's. focal tweeters tend to be very detailed , crystal clear with amazing clarity but also too bright and offensive if not tuned properly. the scan's seem to sound great out of the box but the focals are much harder to tune but in a well tuned setup they also can sound great.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

farshad said:


> I've heard the k2p , VR's and the old utopia's but not the Be's. focal tweeters tend to be very detailed , crystal clear with amazing clarity but also too bright and offensive if not tuned properly. the scan's seem to sound great out of the box but the focals are much harder to tune but in a well tuned setup they also can sound great.


for my own personal listening tastes, I like a tweeter to be very crisp - almost bright when you crank it. Ideally, I want the tweeter to walk a fine line. I'd prefer a little bit bright over a little bit flat.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I auditioned the Focal set. I think i'm going to go with the KRX3, I really enjoyed the tweeters - I think they sound crisp, not as harsh as people said.

The mids are exactly what I expected them to be, nothing less than sensational.

I think the woofers needed more power or something, they weren't nearly as forceful as I expected them to be. 

Also, the RMS rating says 100, but I was told they will handle 200 with ease - is this accurate or would I blow them up?

I also went on a shopping spree at home depot. I bought the full kit of dremel bits - every standard one they make, and I also bought a respirator, some painter's masking tape, some drop cloths, gorilla glue, liquid nails, 3m spray adhesive, and some nice storage containers to organize all my stuff. I need to buy the actual fiberglass and resin now.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Products


Legatia Pro™ L6 midbass and Legatia Pro™ L3 midrange


The L831-3V2 set is for those that want the ultimate small-format two-way front stage system


The Legatia™ L831-3V2 is an upgrade over the Legatia™ L631-3V2 component set


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## dddhhh09 (May 23, 2009)

Yes, you are going to need a very powerful amp on the focal KRX3. I have been running Focal for about 10years and this is buy far the best line of spearkers they have put out. I have the KRX2 model and I am in the process of getting a new amp for them that has the power to run them. I live in Louisiana and we don't have any stores that carry high end amps. So I have called about 50 car audio places around the country that install Focal and all of them said to run them with Steg, Arc Audio, or Audison amps. 70% of them said the Arc Audio sounds the best.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

dddhhh09 said:


> Yes, you are going to need a very powerful amp on the focal KRX3. I have been running Focal for about 10years and this is buy far the best line of spearkers they have put out. I have the KRX2 model and I am in the process of getting a new amp for them that has the power to run them. I live in Louisiana and we don't have any stores that carry high end amps. So I have called about 50 car audio places around the country that install Focal and all of them said to run them with Steg, Arc Audio, or Audison amps. 70% of them said the Arc Audio sounds the best.


In Mississippi There are some amps that will power those 

Linear Power, Inc. - For The Love Of Music

Ray is more than willing to help . . . Too !

Quote>>
the Zuki eleets has changed my view that power is power for the most part. i have always been a strong believer that the differences that we hear from amp to amp is the POWER and not magic SQ dust or amplifier sonics at play. WELL the eleets amp carrys a real power rating of 5x4 @ 4ohms. with gains at minimum words simply can not describe what i heard. 5x2 drives the alpines to levels that are unbearable in loudness with absolutely not a hint of anything. its open and airy and PERFECT! with the 70hz xover the mids now sound like little subs in my doors. the amplifier is beyond words. (i have used or worked with at one time or another almost everything since 1994.) EARGASM is the word!!! as for the 5x4 rating ... just think linear power with thier actual ratings. well since i was only running 2 of the channels and have a few subs to play with , i hooked a few up. first off was a 12w6v2 bridged at 8ohm to the rear channels of the amp. well it sounded fantastic. it drove the w6 with no issues. when i turned the gain up about 1/3 of the way the subwoofer didn't blend well in my stage so i turned it back all the way down and everything blended and sounded PERFECT

Quote>>

Another one you may not have heard of ... http://zukiaudio.net/

The Zuki Eleets have dual everything under the hood [ 2 amps in one case basically ], Bishes thump no matter what the load is !

Under $400.00 for the 4 channel ! *measured at 150 watts by 4 channels !!!*


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## farshad (Mar 4, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> I auditioned the Focal set. I think i'm going to go with the KRX3, I really enjoyed the tweeters - I think they sound crisp, not as harsh as people said.
> 
> The mids are exactly what I expected them to be, nothing less than sensational.
> 
> ...


NO! Go with some diy drivers and even at much lower price point you can get better results if you don't need the passive's and have the space for larger drivers. a peerless setup could be an excellent choice and nicer than the focal's not to mention the focal set is so much more expensive! 
I've not listened to the KRx but usually focal tweeter's could sound unnatural and strained out of the box in my experience and need lot's of work to sound good.
but I don't know, it's your ears and maybe the Krx will be something different.


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## Lash (Nov 26, 2008)

To each his own I suppose, but I've also always found focal's tweets harsh.
CarToys pushes them hard here. 
The staff grins at me "Check it out dude!" as the blood drips from my ears.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

lol. When I listened to them I didn't think they were too harsh at all. Keep in mind my previous tweeters were the metal dome JL ZR series, so to me harsh is all relative. 

And to the guy who suggested larger drivers - I don't read every post on all 8 pages of a thread either, but it's been mentioned several times that 6.5", 3", 1" are the sizes that I need. Not a single inch larger. As I understand it, there really aren't any better 3" mids than the focals for my application - which is getting profanely loud and sounding crystal clear and detailed. I've also heard several times that there aren't many 6.5" drivers that can compete with the 6.5" focal midbass. Also, price does not deter me from expensive speakers in the least bit.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> lol. When I listened to them I didn't think they were too harsh at all. Keep in mind my previous tweeters were the metal dome JL ZR series, so to me harsh is all relative.
> 
> And to the guy who suggested larger drivers - I don't read every post on all 8 pages of a thread either, but it's been mentioned several times that 6.5", 3", 1" are the sizes that I need. Not a single inch larger.


You can get away with a 6.5, sure. But an 8 really adds flexibility in your choices. Really, it's about moving air, and you can do that either with big cones or cones with a lot of excursion. I think people mentioned the SLS8 once upon a time. There are other dedicated 8" drivers out there too. So I wouldn't say 6.5, 3, 1 are THE sizes to use. They're just a common size.

Personally, I run a 5.5" driver instead of a 3" for midrange, just because with my listening habits and the music I listen to, I'd toast that Focal in a few days. 



> As I understand it, there really aren't any better 3" mids than the focals for my application - which is getting profanely loud and sounding crystal clear and detailed. I've also heard several times that there aren't many 6.5" drivers that can compete with the 6.5" focal midbass.


I think any long throw 6.5" woofer would demolish the Focal for midbass. It's good for what it does, but it's not a "midbass" driver. It's a midrange that mates well with upper midranges and provides reasonable midbass output. At least, that's how it's used in that set.

All "three-way" approaches are not the same!


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## OnYrMrk (Apr 20, 2009)

bd5034 said:


> hm. My final decision hinges on an actual audition of the focal KRX3. At least I know what to look/listen for, and that the install/tune matters most.


Audition is the best way to go on this setup. Only your ears will let you know how good these speakers are. I have it on very good authority that the KRX3 sounds very close to Be series speakers for much less.

BTW, I have a 98 GT Mustang Convertible and I am putting Dynaudio 5.25 and tweeter in the kicks and Dyn 10's in the doors. so kick panel is definately possible in the SN95 series 'stangs.

I don't know what you are driving, but I would put the 3/tw in the kicks, you aren't going to lose any room down by the clutch...I will, but you won't. You will however hate the right - to - left bias coming from the sail panels, the speakers are WAY too close to your ears on the drivers side.

Path lengths man...you have to try and keep the pathlengths as close to same from right to left. This can definately help you with better sound. 

By mounting those speakers in the sail panels, you will be completely pissed at yourself for buying those speakers, sell them, and sell yourself short in doing so. A-Pillars are an option though.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

OnYrMrk said:


> Audition is the best way to go on this setup. Only your ears will let you know how good these speakers are. I have it on very good authority that the KRX3 sounds very close to Be series speakers for much less.
> BTW, I have a 98 GT Mustang Convertible and I am putting Dynaudio 5.25 and tweeter in the kicks and Dyn 10's in the doors. so kick panel is definately possible in the SN95 series 'stangs.
> I don't know what you are driving, but I would put the 3/tw in the kicks, you aren't going to lose any room down by the clutch...I will, but you won't. You will however hate the right - to - left bias coming from the sail panels, the speakers are WAY too close to your ears on the drivers side.
> Path lengths man...you have to try and keep the pathlengths as close to same from right to left. This can definately help you with better sound.
> By mounting those speakers in the sail panels, you will be completely pissed at yourself for buying those speakers, sell them, and sell yourself short in doing so. A-Pillars are an option though.


I don't think you read all of this long post but we went down the kick panel road and the OP stated that they were a definite no! Also, this thread started with him ordering a set of the KRX3's However, after five pages or posters trying to offer a little direction because the OP seemed unsure about his selection and what to do the OP is right back where he started, he is going to get the KRX3 set.

IMO, I think that is fine...we all have wanted to try a brand or two and we will never be satisfied until we do it. Also, FOCAL is not a ****ty brand, I think they make decent stuff and the current product line is solid...price aside of course. Hell, I would play around with a Be 3" if I could pick up a use set on a deal.

Nevertheless, for the money the OP id going to spend on the set, and his goal being refined sound in a bad ass Stang convertible, one would think a different DIY approach might be in order that would include drivers and amps for about the same money. But, that is neither here nor there and I think some of us will like to see how this one turn out because that KRX3 set is intriguing.

So, the OP can exhale now and move on to the next stage...The Install and a build thread.

Peace and no worries!


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

As a matter of fact. I bought the set today. Install begins when they arrive. 

Last word -- Deep Breath - Focal KRX3 comp set ordered.

--Brandon


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## lbc240 (Mar 1, 2008)

I think you made good choice with the focals. The new TN53K tweeter is nothing like the old metal tweeters and has a much smoother sound than the old ones.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> As a matter of fact. I bought the set today. Install begins when they arrive.
> 
> Last word -- Deep Breath - Focal KRX3 comp set ordered.
> 
> --Brandon


if you went to the Buwalda Hybrids site then you know they've won world championships in America and Europe 

Like over a dozen


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## OnYrMrk (Apr 20, 2009)

well as a former member of Team Focal, I happen to know that we have won more world championships than Buwalda's team has, but what is amazing, is in the time it has taken for them to come up so strongly. Scott's product is great, no doubt about that.


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## audisoner 596 (Dec 15, 2008)

How about HATs 3" mids? They'd go well with the Scan tweets


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Lash said:


> To each his own I suppose, but I've also always found focal's tweets harsh.
> CarToys pushes them hard here.
> The staff grins at me "Check it out dude!" as the blood drips from my ears.


My favorite place to get audio gear in Portland is a pawn shop named "Stuff" on McLoughlin. I was there yesterday and saw a pair of the TC Sounds 12" subs that Eclipse used to sell. I don't want to say what they were priced, because it was cheap, and I'm trying to convince myself NOT to buy them :laugh:

They also have a soundstream reference amp from the 90s for sixty bucks, and some PPI flat piston subs. Crazy stuff, and CHEAP.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Patrick Bateman said:


> My favorite place to get audio gear in Portland is a pawn shop named "Stuff" on McLoughlin. I was there yesterday and saw a pair of the TC Sounds 12" subs that Eclipse used to sell. I don't want to say what they were priced, because it was cheap, and I'm trying to convince myself NOT to buy them :laugh:
> 
> They also have a soundstream reference amp from the 90s for sixty bucks, and some PPI flat piston subs. Crazy stuff, and CHEAP.


An LMT sub, then?


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

fourthmeal said:


> An LMT sub, then?


Didn't TC Sounds make their older subs? Or was that someone else? I tried to find a part number on it, to no avail.

Looks just like this:










There were similar subs on Ebay for over $300 w/shipping.


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## audiophiledave (Nov 8, 2009)

a$$hole said:


> if you went to the Buwalda Hybrids site then you know they've won world championships in America and Europe
> 
> Like over a dozen


Honda Civic one at IASCA world champion extreme class with all focal speakers


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

all these people are garbage 

anyone that says focal krx3 will not sound good have not a clue what they are taking about 


and i would take focal speakers over any diy speakers 

focals are the best in the world and all the world winning cars run focal speakers not diy speakers 

dont listen to people that dont have the money to buy focal and dont know what they are talking about 

get them and they will soudn perfect


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Wow, two post on here and you're already a hypocrite .. 



mrstangerbanger said:


> *all these people are garbage *
> 
> anyone that says focal krx3 will not sound good *have not a clue what they are taking about *
> 
> ...


Which leads me to your only other single post ..



mrstangerbanger said:


> *I think people need to stop talking so much CRAP about other people.*
> 
> The guys mustang look ok and you guys get mad when he calls you names
> 
> *then you should not talk crap* about his car and how he writes


Kettle, meet Black. A match made in heaven. Yea, you're gonna last long here. 

BTW .. What you posted above is YOUR opinion. You cannot possibly be able to hear and judge through everyone elses ears.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

mrstangerbanger said:


> all these people are garbage


I usually look to Yuba City dwellers for validation of my life choices. 



mrstangerbanger said:


> and i would take focal speakers over any diy speakers


Which of course is significant, because...



mrstangerbanger said:


> focals are the best in the world and all the world winning cars run focal speakers not diy speakers


Really? Seriously? I don't even think that HAT are the "Best In The World", but they were in the highest-scoring car ever. What does that mean? Less about the speakers than about your argument. 



mrstangerbanger said:


> dont listen to people that dont have the money to buy focal and dont know what they are talking about


OK, that leaves me as someone you can listen to, since neither of those apply to me. 



mrstangerbanger said:


> get them and they will soudn perfect


I always wanted my speakers to soudn perfect. 

Ignoring typing and proofreading skills for a moment, this is really the argument you put forth? Seriously?


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

Damn, Don beat me!


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

VP Electricity said:


> Damn, Don beat me!


You're gettin' old.


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

sorry guys 

im not trying to talk **** 

thanks guys


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

mrstangerbanger said:


> all these people are garbage
> 
> anyone that says focal krx3 will not sound good have not a clue what they are taking about
> 
> ...



Yep, you're definitely from Yuba City. I think you should lay off YC's biggest commodity item (meth for those that aren't familiar with the area) before hopping on the rant train.


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

Im from chico Ca sucker


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

mrstangerbanger said:


> Im from chico Ca sucker


And we all know they're drinkers in Chico. Party town!


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

that how we do it in CHICO CALLY


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

BTW, since this thread is quite old I'll give you an update. I ran the focal set for quite a while, and with some minimal EQ they sounded quite good. Nowhere near perfect, but quite good. They also got absurdly loud. I think with a more experienced tuner helping me, they really could have been magnificent. That said, in retrospect, they really did cost a ridiculous amount of money. I'm not 100% sure I would buy them again.

Right now they are in my basement waiting to be installed in my new ride.

--just a note about the drivers themselves. the build quality of the speakers themselves is really impressive.


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

I'm glad you bought them.  I'm glad you "went for it" and had the experience so you can talk about it later instead of wondering if they'd have sounded better all your life. I'm specially glad you didn't let the internet tell you what you want. Rock'em!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

mrstangerbanger said:


> Im from chico Ca sucker


Not what your profile says. And Chico isn't much better.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

audiogodz1 said:


> I'm glad you bought them.  I'm glad you "went for it" and had the experience so you can talk about it later instead of wondering if they'd have sounded better all your life. I'm specially glad you didn't let the internet tell you what you want. Rock'em!



Thanks. I'm really glad I had the experience too, I've learned a lot. You're absolutely right when you said that it's better to know than to have wondered all my life "what if". 

Some say that when we get old, it's not the things we do that we regret most... but rather the things we don't do.


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