# What is your favorite amplifier and why?



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

We all have various reasons for liking one amp over another. None are wrong or bad, we like what we like.
I like my old JL amps for their high SN ratio, low THD and high dampening factor. But they are old so it has me considering something newer. I really dig Sinfoni but not baller enough to swing over 5 grand for them. LOL


So what do you like or what would you buy if you had a couple grand to drop? 4 channel and a mono block? Two 2-channel amps and a mono? 5 monos?
I myself prefer a 4 channel and a mono block but I am always open to new ideas. Just curious what I may be missing out there.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

zapco DC. you can get them cheap, theyre sexy as hell, and they have built in DSP's. And if your one to believe that modern days amps specs are audible, then the specs on these are great. oh, and we can have very similar setups


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

LOLZ


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

as long as you have a windows laptop, and know how to upload drivers manually, you have no reason to say no to that amp series


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

ppi art series, just cant get over them somehow, had a complete set and am sure I will again someday.

for more modern/relyable but still badass looking, the big Memphis belle amps with the airplane on them, that's art I can feel and appreciate.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I would get the new series that does not have the driver issues and has better time alignment and slopes. The big 4 channel and mono block would be under 2k so that is a viable option.

Dont think I ever owned a Zapco amp before. Installed many though. LOL Never a DC series though.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

LaserSVT said:


> We all have various reasons for liking one amp over another. None are wrong or bad, we like what we like.
> I like my old JL amps for their high SN ratio, low THD and high dampening factor. But they are old so it has me considering something newer. I really dig Sinfoni but not baller enough to swing over 5 grand for them. LOL
> 
> 
> ...


From what I see you have spent your money in all the right places. The amps you have are fantastic. 

The sinfoni amps are great but nothing I would sit around and wish I had over your amps.



My perfect amp is in my car, alpine pdx-v9. I've owned everything from a to z, audio art to zapco


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

I really like the pdx's because of their "stackability". 1300 watts over 9 channels in a 11"x8" footprint is pretty fantastic in my book.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

brumledb said:


> I really like the pdx's because of their "stackability". 1300 watts over 9 channels in a 11"x8" footprint is pretty fantastic in my book.


It's mind boggling to me what has happened with car amplifiers in the past decade.


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

legend94 said:


> It's mind boggling to me what has happened with car amplifiers in the past decade.


Yeah. I'm not complaining but it's strange to me that the price on amps has come down. Typically everything seems to go upward in price (inflation). 
Speakers don't seem to have followed the same downward trend. I know it has been said before but I remember when amps were a dollar a watt.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Zuki's, because theey sound great.

Of course, size is also a factor. If you have allot of room, and don't mine using up all of the space in your trunk, then the PG Elites are probably the best bang for the money.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Still love my XES-M3's. Only have one installed but will have another installed soon. Fully discreet input stage (no opamps) with no crossover or eq. Output stage uses the Sanken MT-200 package epitaxial transistors which are used in the PG Elites. Only downside is they are big and tall.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

I think my favorite would be the JBL 6000GTi, the round Crown based on the idea that there is no such thing as too much.

I'd like to do a 3 amp system, two of the big Sony XM2000, and one 6000GTi, one Sony on each side of the cabin and the JBL in the middle.

figure I'd have to use some BMS 18" push-pull, 4 of 'em for the GTi and the Sony could do a strong...

a strong....


heck, whatever.


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

I loved my the Alpine's I had in my last install (2 x PDX-V9, PDX-M12), but my new Arc XDi V2's have me missing them less and less.

For old school power plus clean, I wish I'd held onto the 3 Orion 225 HCCA Digital Ref's I ran back in the day. I'd be using them now, no question about it.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

I miss my old Rockford punch series amps. I had an 800a2 and that sucker would take a beating and keep coming back even though it would get so hot you couldn't touch it. I had it hooked up to a 12W6v2 and seriously cleanest sounding setup I had for bass.


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## maggie-g (Aug 20, 2014)

Buttkicker amp they used to sell on partsexpress. Why - the name says it all.


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## ZombieHunter85 (Oct 30, 2012)

Power Acoustik Fire & Ice 820.
lol purely for nostalgia.
I got one brand new in the box on ebay along time ago for 45 shipped.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

JL slash amps. They just do something for me. Would have used them now but the size said no

I've come to love DD amps. Korean built quality, great CS, power for foot print is unmatched.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> I would get the new series that does not have the driver issues and has better time alignment and slopes. The big 4 channel and mono block would be under 2k so that is a viable option.
> 
> Dont think I ever owned a Zapco amp before. Installed many though. LOL Never a DC series though.


i think you still have to upload the drivers manually. theyre just different drivers.

my other vote would be phoenix gold titanuims


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> i think you still have to upload the drivers manually. theyre just different drivers.
> 
> my other vote would be phoenix gold titanuims


According to Zapco:"The new DPN is easier to load and use and the hassles of loading drivers are gone. Just drop the new system onto your desktop and go."


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> According to Zapco:"The new DPN is easier to load and use and the hassles of loading drivers are gone. Just drop the new system onto your desktop and go."


you also get symbilink on the old ones, and are about a third the price


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## Extended Power (Jun 8, 2014)

I still have my old Alpine 3539, and my 3537...they are ok...the specs are awesome.
But the JL slash v2 amps I have are just beautiful.
I love the look of the brushed aluminum...and the specs.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

I'm extremely happy with my Mosconi AS200.4 and AS300.2 amps...apart from the fact the finish is becoming blotchy on one of the heatsink covers . But since these amps have an absolute ****load of nice clean power I can almost get over the blotchiness


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

LaserSVT said:


> We all have various reasons for liking one amp over another. None are wrong or bad, we like what we like.
> I like my old JL amps for their high SN ratio, low THD and high dampening factor. But they are old so it has me considering something newer. I really dig Sinfoni but not baller enough to swing over 5 grand for them. LOL
> 
> 
> ...


The magic is in the tune and once you realize that the equipment becomes irrelevant beyond a base threshold level.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

sqnut said:


> The magic is in the tune and once you realize that the equipment becomes irrelevant beyond a base threshold level.


I get what you are saying but dont understand what you said. I realize its all in how its tuned. Same with pretty much anything mechanical. At least in the car world. I just dont see a Power Acoustic amp producing the same kind of clean power something like a Brax will. Even Zapco talks about in some amps how they change the capacitors and such to get the amp to sound better yet retain the same specs.



This thread really has two purposes. One is just curiosity of what people like. The other is to get ideas if I did decide to replace my amps of what to replace them with. I know if it aint broke, dont fix it and my amps are nice amps but its always nice to have options. Cheap or expensive, good is good. Just seems MOST of the time a more expensive amp is the better amp.


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

I'm with you the older amps. I love my LANZAR Opti amps from the 90's. But I may have just found a new love from that era, the Clarion APA series with the McIntosh circuitry. I'm blown away by them.

Amps from today, I love and miss my Audison LRx5.1k


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## Audiophilefred (Oct 24, 2012)

Pg 1600.5 my favorite amp of all time, super small footprint and packs a lot of power.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I really like the way the PG Elite.5 looks. Read about Caseys issues and that has kinda scared me away since I would have to buy online so pretty much no warranty.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

My Sinfoni Prestigio is my favorite amp I've had.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## michael92 (Apr 7, 2015)

I like my Alpine v70. I know its NOTHING compared to what you guys got but it does the job. Having an all in one is nice. There is only so far I wanna go into car stereos. Home stereos are where its at. 

Course it seems like most of you do both


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> I get what you are saying but dont understand what you said. I realize its all in how its tuned. Same with pretty much anything mechanical. At least in the car world. I just dont see a Power Acoustic amp producing the same kind of clean power something like a Brax will. Even Zapco talks about in some amps how they change the capacitors and such to get the amp to sound better yet retain the same specs.
> 
> 
> 
> This thread really has two purposes. One is just curiosity of what people like. The other is to get ideas if I did decide to replace my amps of what to replace them with. I know if it aint broke, dont fix it and my amps are nice amps but its always nice to have options. Cheap or expensive, good is good. Just seems MOST of the time a more expensive amp is the better amp.


you gotta remember, zapco is trying to sell you something lol. the amps are the very last thing (besides cables i guess) you should worry about in terms of equipment performance. you absolutely can not hear a difference in THD with todays amps, especially in a car. same goes for damping factor. the only thing you should really be concerned about is the power output, its reliability, will it fit in your install, and looks (if you care).


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

brumledb said:


> Yeah. I'm not complaining but it's strange to me that the price on amps has come down. Typically everything seems to go upward in price (inflation).
> *Speakers don't seem to have followed the same downward trend*. I know it has been said before but I remember when amps were a dollar a watt.


Sometimes we rule out speakers, amps... if they aren't in the price range we associate with quality products. i'm no expert but I like my NVX amps. Low price, and solid little amp. My ears don't miss anything comparing to my old JL HD Amp or ARC V2. 

Some raw speakers have come down in price especially for what you get from some of them. 2-3 years ago the 6" Satori speakers were $290 ea, now they are $175. Same designer as some of the ScansSpeak products, newer designs, and less than half the cost.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> you gotta remember, zapco is trying to sell you something lol. the amps are the very last thing (besides cables i guess) you should worry about in terms of equipment performance. you absolutely can not hear a difference in THD with todays amps, especially in a car. same goes for damping factor. the only thing you should really be concerned about is the power output, its reliability, will it fit in your install, and looks (if you care).


I hear ya. If I went solely off of looks I would throw the "new amp" idea out the window and get the big six channel Mac I always wanted. LOL I love that amp but they are a bit clinical. 
Meh, maybe I will just send mine in for a freshen up and stick with them. I have heard the JL Slash amps back to back with the newer JL HD amps and for me I was disappointed when I heard them. Never looked up their specs but the Slash amp just seemed more natural and powerful yet the HDs were rated for a bit more power. Its one thing that always stuck in my head so I never even priced getting HDs for myself.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

I absolutely love the new Arc class d amps. Sound and power are excellent. My favorte class A/b were the coustic DR amps. Loved those.


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## 1styearsi (Aug 13, 2012)

i love my RF BD1000's i have had 1 for over 15 years and it is proven itself to be bulletproof!!! so much so that it went and got 2 more a few weeks ago but 1 year newer bd1001's.i guess i'm a OLD SCHOOL rockford man
the power bd1000+500a2
























i have got a little overzealous i also got a 551s and a 451s.
and a member here sold me 2 links with the built in meter.in the last week.sold off all my ppi's WHAT!!!
time to get installing.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

must admit, I'm pretty partial to the Rockford gear of the early 2000s, the 801s was one solid amp and I beat the living crap out of it daily bridged at 2 ohms!


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I wonder how the Mosconi Zero 4 and Zero 3 would compare to what i have now?


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

My favorites...

Nostalgic favs- PPI AM series in black. I run a 2150am and a 4200am in my daily driver right now. 
Elite level favs- TRU Technology Super Billet 4100 and a SH1 "Sledge Hammer" w/numerous upgrades.
Mind-bending level favs- Anything Luxman or a PPI 2500 F1.

In reality my PPI am series is the best I'll probably ever own. I'm good with that.


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

I really liked the Zed Leviathan, but I couldn't trust it. I love the finned heatsink look, so the SS REF is nice, and the Ground Zero amps I'm impressed with so far. I've learned customer service is huge, as generally it's not if an amp will fail, it's when, when we're talking mobile audio. A vehicle isn't exactly an extremely stable environment.

As mentioned, the "do different amps sound better" debate is a beaten horse and shouldn't be brought up here.


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

I had very good luck with the my old Kicker ZR/ZX series from the 90's. Those things never quit on me. 

I also really liked my Arc Audio XXK amps. Had many of these & never had any issues with them. My last ones were a 4150-XXK & the revised 1500-XXKv1.


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## snyderd758 (Feb 21, 2011)

I love my mosconi gladen one 240.2 outstanding sq and the fsa(front stage adjustment) is genius. im running a ppi pc 2350 to my 4 sa8v2's not my dream amp but definitely the best sounding I have had to date and I dreamed for years of owning one. my dream amp is going to be a mosconi as300.2 to run my new subs hopefully 10w7's one of these days.


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

I love my Zapco Studio 500, I wish I had the room for one for each pair of fronts and one each for my 12's. Clean dampened sound that crush my Memphis I sold for them. I have a Studio 50, 204, 300x and a 500. Headroom rules.


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## The Tube Doctor (Nov 24, 2009)

My Audison HR-100 remains at the pinnacle of SQ performance.
Yes, it's the size of a small surfboard and has only two channels, but what comes out of those two channels is very nearly magical.

I still have a stack of 1st gen ODR, with those funky, pure class A amps. Very dry sound, but still pretty special.

And those Audison VRX chrome shadow edition amps sounded great, but they were a bit delicate for the hot, humid conditions that persist nearly all year in Hong Kong. Still have a stack of those in the warehouse as well. Think I see a trend.............

Current favorite is the Eton SDA series. Clean, quiet, compact and thus far, very favorable SQ. Still haven't racked up hundreds of hours of listening time on these, but initial impressions are great,


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## Pseudonym (Apr 17, 2006)

the ones i miss the most were my old, modified, tru t4100 and 2200, but on about the same level was my zuki eleets 4. the zuki was a very understated amp looks-wise and like the tru's, was just a heavy, solid piece of amp goodness. i dont have that same feeling with my helix.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

My favorite amp is an old school PPI based surfboard amp. 600 watts two channel amp that I paid $550 in 1993 money. I've been enjoyed it for 10 years put it in storage and but it back to work about a year ago. So far its been dependable and rock solid reliable. Plenty of power sounds warm and can run full range. Every other amp I have tried seems to have one issue or another.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

I've tried a few new school amps and they always seem to induce noise on my system. JL Slash ( non-subwoofer type ), Pioneer Stage 4, Kenwood,


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> you gotta remember, zapco is trying to sell you something lol. the amps are the very last thing (besides cables i guess) you should worry about in terms of equipment performance. you absolutely can not hear a difference in THD with todays amps, especially in a car. same goes for damping factor. the only thing you should really be concerned about is the power output, its reliability, will it fit in your install, and looks (if you care).


Confusing really, why are you trying to get comparator right now if you certain that all amps sounds the same?
to prove to yourself that you might be wrong or to convince others that there no difference?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> Confusing really, why are you trying to get comparator right now if you certain that all amps sounds the same?
> to prove to yourself that you might be wrong or to convince others that there no difference?


a little of both. they may have a oh so slight difference, but in a car, and with processing, it doesnt matter


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> a little of both. they may have a oh so slight difference, but in a car, and with processing, it doesnt matter


I see


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> I see


btw, in the post you quoted, i never said anything about amps sounding the same or not. i just said that the difference in thd is inaudible, and damping factor is snake oil.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> btw, in the post you quoted, i never said anything about amps sounding the same or not. i just said that the difference in thd is inaudible, and damping factor is snake oil.


I din`t want to start that discussion when it was not called for.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Just a friendly discussion on what amps people like and why. There are no right or wrong answers here.

We all know different amps "sound" different. Be it built in EQ that you cant defeat like a Butler Tube Driver or the noise they interject due to lower quality components and yada yada yada.
If all amps sound the same with everything else being equal than everyone here would have a Boss or Pyramid amp in their car instead of a Mac or ARC or Mosconi or Brax or JL or Sinfoni or whatever their choice of flavor is. 


Being that I have never heard a Brax or Mosconi or DSP Zapco in person that is why the question was asked. While many on here may not share my taste in stereos its still an excellent site to get a feel for other kinds of amps vs me just buying one of each and seeing which one I may like the best.

For the most part I get great advice here. I went from a low end Pioneer deck, Quart components and crappy Quart Formula amps to what I have now. I never heard of Scan Speak or Stereo Integrity or Sinfoni before. I never cared about running active or having good processing.
Using the guidance I have received on here its allowed me to discover the sound of my dreams.


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## Jesus Christ (Aug 3, 2010)

LaserSVT said:


> We all know different amps "sound" different.


We do? Sure it's possible for amps to sound different, but competently designed amps will be sonically indistinguishable from one another. 


> If all amps sound the same with everything else being equal than everyone here would have a Boss or Pyramid amp in their car instead of a Mac or ARC or Mosconi or Brax or JL or Sinfoni or whatever their choice of flavor is.


There are plenty of reasons besides sound to choose one amp over another, build quality, reliability, size, features, power, cosmetics etc. 

As for the original question, I've been happy with the amps in my current install, a Lanzar OPTIHC300.4, Soundstream D200II and a JBL MS-A5001.


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

If I'm picking one amp I have to go with my a/d/s PQ10. I've had this amp since new and it still works and sounds awesome. I think they are the best looking amps ever made, but that's probably just me.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Thing is how many amps can perfectly reproduce a signal without introducing ANY noise? All amps seem to have a certain sound signature. Even their makers recognize that. Things as simple as changing the brand of capacitors can change how an amplifier amplifies.
Sometimes its signal changes desired by an amps manufacturer and sometimes its from cheap parts and sometimes its from a poor design and a million other things but you play with enough of them and you realize they are not all equal despite what the numbers may say.

Its like the Zapco LE and LX series. Zapco states that they have different parts on the board and have the exact same specs yet they do sound a bit different. Zapco. They been making amps for a year or two right?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

dallasneon said:


> If I'm picking one amp I have to go with my a/d/s PQ10. I've had this amp since new and it still works and sounds awesome. I think they are the best looking amps ever made, but that's probably just me.


Holy crap I forgot about those. Those were the kinda slate blue ones that were all fins on top right? Those were nice little amps back in the day.



EDIT:


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## Instaburn (Aug 22, 2013)

Old school PPI class A/B... they just don't make them like they used to.


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## Jesus Christ (Aug 3, 2010)

LaserSVT said:


> Thing is how many amps can perfectly reproduce a signal without introducing ANY noise? All amps seem to have a certain sound signature. Even their makers recognize that. Things as simple as changing the brand of capacitors can change how an amplifier amplifies.
> Sometimes its signal changes desired by an amps manufacturer and sometimes its from cheap parts and sometimes its from a poor design and a million other things but you play with enough of them and you realize they are not all equal despite what the numbers may say.
> 
> Its like the Zapco LE and LX series. Zapco states that they have different parts on the board and have the exact same specs yet they do sound a bit different. Zapco. They been making amps for a year or two right?


This has been discussed many, many, many times before in several threads, some of which having thousands of posts, so there's really no need to open that can of worms again. If running that shiny Sinfoni or whatever other amp makes you happy then go for it, I'll save my money and spend it on things that actually matter.



Instaburn said:


> they just don't make them like they used to.


Large, inefficient, expensive, thank god they don't make them like they used to.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

I have no particular favorite amp line at all. I just use the cheapest amp with the size, features, and power that I need. 

Back in the day I used to chase the hype that you needed super high end amps for da SQ but realized that a moving vehicle creates so many obstructions that it's almost pointless. It's fine if all you do is sit in your car parked in the garage and listen, but nobody does that and that's what a listening room inside your house is for. With my "get the most out of what you have by optimization" strategy that I follow now, I haven't ever reached a point where I was unsatisfied and needed the attributes of a high end amp in a vehicle.

If you've ever turned your measurement mic on and ran a RTA while you go driving around it will make you sick to your stomach how much noise and harmonics it picks up and you will wonder why you even bother trying to achieve that last 10%.



LaserSVT said:


> If all amps sound the same with everything else being equal than everyone here would have a Boss or Pyramid amp in their car instead of a Mac or ARC or Mosconi or Brax or JL or Sinfoni or whatever their choice of flavor is.


Even though I don't consider it a "favorite", believe it or not one of the most trusty amplifier steeds in my stable is an old Performance Teknique ICBM 772 that I bought for 40 dollars at a pawn shop in like 2005. It's not a powerhouse, but over the years I've had it power many passive 2-way front stages, many different subs, wired it down to 2 ohm bridged once, and that thing keeps on rocking out without missing a beat. I guarantee I could pop the emblem off, rub the original silk screening off, stick on an emblem from a more expensive brand and any enthusiast riding around with me jamming out wouldn't suspect anything or even know any better unless I told them.:ears:


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Jesus Christ said:


> This has been discussed many, many, many times before in several threads, some of which having thousands of posts, so there's really no need to open that can of worms again.


I am all too aware and have read most of them. Its one of those subjects that is just like abortion stance for politicians. No matter what you believe someone is gonna disagree. LOL


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> Thing is how many amps can perfectly reproduce a signal without introducing ANY noise? All amps seem to have a certain sound signature. Even their makers recognize that. Things as simple as changing the brand of capacitors can change how an amplifier amplifies.
> Sometimes its signal changes desired by an amps manufacturer and sometimes its from cheap parts and sometimes its from a poor design and a million other things but you play with enough of them and you realize they are not all equal despite what the numbers may say.
> 
> Its like the Zapco LE and LX series. Zapco states that they have different parts on the board and have the exact same specs yet they do sound a bit different. Zapco. They been making amps for a year or two right?


again, gotta recognize that this is their selling point. im not saying anything else though until i do the test i talked about in the winter


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> I am all too aware and have read most of them. Its one of those subjects that is just like abortion stance for politicians. No matter what you believe someone is gonna disagree. LOL


The only difference is one being an opinion on morality and the other having scientific data behind it.


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

LaserSVT said:


> Holy crap I forgot about those. Those were the kinda slate blue ones that were all fins on top right? Those were nice little amps back in the day.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:



That's the one! Great amp.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

hurrication said:


> The only difference is one being an opinion on morality and the other having scientific data behind it.


 which is which?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> which is which?


that also can depend on who your asking lol


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> that also can depend on who your asking lol


 one whom i quoted.duh....


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> which is which?


It's open to interpretation.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

hurrication said:


> It's open to interpretation.


Of course it does, what is yours?


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

Mine's along these lines - Richard Clark Amplifier Challenge FAQ


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

hurrication said:


> Mine's along these lines - Richard Clark Amplifier Challenge FAQ


Gotcha!


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

hurrication said:


> I have no particular favorite amp line at all. I just use the cheapest amp with the size, features, and power that I need.
> 
> Back in the day I used to chase the hype that you needed super high end amps for da SQ but realized that a moving vehicle creates so many obstructions that it's almost pointless. It's fine if all you do is sit in your car parked in the garage and listen, but nobody does that and that's what a listening room inside your house is for. With my "get the most out of what you have by optimization" strategy that I follow now, I haven't ever reached a point where I was unsatisfied and needed the attributes of a high end amp in a vehicle.
> 
> ...


This is why I laugh at people who are constantly changing amps out for the next, newer (and invariably more expensive) amp that supposedly causes your speakers to produce waves and waves of ultra-magical tones. 
If someone were to state reliability or durability as the main reason behind switching to a higher dollar amp, I might understand their reasoning. I do think build quality is or should be a consideration. 

But, in the auto environment, rolling down a less-than-smooth multi-lane highway during rush hour??? I seriously doubt anyone could tell a difference between a Audison and a Performance Teknique such as mentioned above. 

I'd love to see some blind a/b testing of what are considered "marginal" amplifiers versus the highly regarded boutique or elite brands. I'd bet the results would surprise us all.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

All my mosconi amps (A class, Zero class & AS class) have performed great so far. I don't have much to compare them against, as these are the only amps I have tried thus far. I am sure I will give a different brand a try in the future .


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

hurrication said:


> Mine's along these lines - Richard Clark Amplifier Challenge FAQ


has anyone actually taken this test yet?


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## Instaburn (Aug 22, 2013)

Jesus Christ said:


> Large, inefficient, expensive, thank god they don't make them like they used to.


More along the lines of being made in the USA, low .01% or lessTHD, 115db+ SNR..... not this Chinese garbage, Class D, 12% THD, 85db SNR...but hey.. it puts out 20,000 watts and it fits in your glove-box. C'mon now.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Instaburn said:


> More along the lines of being made in the USA, low .01% or lessTHD, 115db+ SNR..... not this Chinese garbage,* Class D, 12% THD, 85db SNR...but hey.. it puts out 20,000 watts and it fits in your glove-box. C'mon now*.


:laugh:


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Instaburn said:


> More along the lines of being made in the USA, low .01% or lessTHD, 115db+ SNR..... not this Chinese garbage, Class D, 12% THD, 85db SNR...but hey.. it puts out 20,000 watts and it fits in your glove-box. C'mon now.


where have you ever seen an amp with even above 1%thd? and geographical location of where it was made doesnt determine its performance


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> where have you ever seen an amp with even above 1%thd? and geographical location of where it was made doesnt determine its performance


1% is about every amplifier in existence slightly overloaded.
10% is very common in real measurement. distortion is easy to measure.
it doesn`t mean **** in actual amplifier sound, there are very good classic tube amplifiers with 4% distortion that sounds better to the listener then .001% lab grade amplifier. it`s not linear but so is human hearing.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> 1% is about every amplifier in existence slightly overloaded.
> 10% is very common in real measurement. distortion is easy to measure.
> it doesn`t mean **** in actual amplifier sound, there are very good classic tube amplifiers with 4% distortion that sounds better to the listener then .001% lab grade amplifier. it`s not linear but so is human hearing.


im talking about without being over driven.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> where have you ever seen an amp with even above 1%thd? and geographical location of where it was made doesnt determine its performance


Look up arc audio 4200 SE.........the THD is 20%

SE 4200 | Arc Audio


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Look up arc audio 4200 SE.........the THD is 20%
> 
> SE 4200Â*| Arc Audio


"Max current draw"... like i said, under normal conditions


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

Instaburn said:


> More along the lines of being made in the USA, low .01% or lessTHD, 115db+ SNR..... not this Chinese garbage, Class D, 12% THD, 85db SNR...but hey.. it puts out 20,000 watts and it fits in your glove-box. C'mon now.


I came from using all class A/B amps......I now use Chinese made class D's. I don't see myself going back.

I'd rather spend the money on better drivers & install.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Im afraid of class D. Doesn't Class "D" stand for Dark side. I'm afraid of the dark side.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Im afraid of class D. Doesn't Class "D" stand for Dark side. I'm afraid of the dark side.


the d stands for dirty, as in its dirty power


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

Oh yeah!!!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

i also heard it stands for dingleberries, because class d amps sound like **** :laugh:


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

How can they sound like ****. I thought all amps sound the same?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> How can they sound like ****. I thought all amps sound the same?


it was a joke.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

1996blackmax said:


> I came from using all class A/B amps......I now use Chinese made class D's. I don't see myself going back.
> 
> I'd rather spend the money on better drivers & install.


Same here. Being able to hide the amps is something I never thought about but have come to really like. Impossible with the old school A/B monsters.

I'm amazed at how some of these little amps can perform. Granted, I don't expect them to last for 15+ years like the old ones but they serve their purpose well.


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm not a JL fanboy or anything but I love the JL XD line of amps. I've ran the 400/4, 600/6, 200/2 and currently have the 800/8 and they've all performed flawlessly. They've all been mounted in the spare tire area with no ventilation or fans and have never shut off on me. I also like the wide variety of channels they make.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> "Max current draw"... like i said, under normal conditions


 normal as defined by what? 1% is normal, so is 20% for some people.
very rarely you`ll see actual distortion less than 1% despite paper numbers shows 0.01%.
those birth sheets shows power at what distorsion? do you know?
I measured one of the Alpines highly regarded digital amps, distortion in my measurement was 4.3% at power level stated in birth sheet. I still like Alpine.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> normal as defined by what? 1% is normal, so is 20% for some people.
> very rarely you`ll see actual distortion less than 1% despite paper numbers shows 0.01%.
> those birth sheets shows power at what distorsion? do you know?
> I measured one of the Alpines highly regarded digital amps, distortion in my measurement was 4.3% at power level stated in birth sheet. I still like Alpine.


i forget what my pdx birth sheet looked like, but all of my zapco dc's THD is next to nothing until a bit past the power its rated for


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Im afraid of class D. Doesn't Class "D" stand for Dark side. I'm afraid of the dark side.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Were class D amps designed for those SPL competitions where SQ has no relevance? Those systems don't even make music they make noise. So who cares if there is massive distortion in this instance?


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> the d stands for dirty, as in its dirty power


You shut your whore mouth! *leaves to hug his Arc 1200.6's*

Although, if I could have afforded the jump to a pair of the Zapco Z150.6LX's..... Heh.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Were class D amps designed for those SPL competitions where SQ has no relevance? Those systems don't even make music they make noise. So who cares if there is massive distortion in this instance?


no. they are just a different topology. they truly are perfect for car audio because 1) theyre much smaller than other classes, and 2) theyre much more efficient than the other classes. they were made to be an amp that was easier to install and integrate into the car, and didnt draw as much current


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


>


close thread. this is it. this is the winner right here. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Kriszilla (Jul 1, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> close thread. this is it. this is the winner right here. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


Yup.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> no. they are just a different topology. they truly are perfect for car audio because 1) theyre much smaller than other classes, and 2) theyre much more efficient than the other classes. they were made to be an amp that was easier to install and integrate into the car, and didnt draw as much current


So let me understand. You are raving about how great class "D" amps are. Your huge footprint Zapco amps are class "D" or do they just look huge in that little nissan?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> So let me understand. You are raving about how great class "D" amps are. Your huge footprint Zapco amps are class "D" or do they just look huge in that little nissan?


im not raving about em, where did i "rave" about them? i just let you know what theyre made for. size was of no concern for when i chose what amps to get. it came down to power, features, price, and looks. They have the power i wanted. They have built in DSP's, i can get them for very good prices. Theyre sexy as ****.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> no. they are just a different topology. they truly are perfect for car audio because 1) theyre much smaller than other classes, and 2) theyre much more efficient than the other classes. they were made to be an amp that was easier to install and integrate into the car, and didnt draw as much current


"Truly Perfect" for car audio for the above reasons......seems like raving to me, no?

But yet you chose class A/B? 

Hmmmmm


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> "Truly Perfect" for car audio for the above reasons......seems like raving to me, no?
> 
> But yet you chose class A/B?
> 
> Hmmmmm


have you ever worked as an installer? to the person who isnt concerned about all of this hoopla, yes theyre christs second reincarnation (well not really, but..)

they make life so easy by being so small. you can install them almost anywhere in any car. theyre very effecient, so no more worrying about taxing your electrical system. and theyre not expensive. they sound fine (if you claim to hear a difference, go ahead and claim your 10 thousand dollars from richard clark by taking his test. i mean what have you got to loose 

and again i chose my amps for other reasons. did you not read my other post?


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> have you ever worked as an installer? to the person who isnt concerned about all of this hoopla, yes theyre christs second reincarnation (well not really, but..)
> 
> they make life so easy by being so small. you can install them almost anywhere in any car. theyre very effecient, so no more worrying about taxing your electrical system. and theyre not expensive. they sound fine (if you claim to hear a difference, go ahead and claim your 10 thousand dollars from richard clark by taking his test. i mean what have you got to loose
> 
> and again i chose my amps for other reasons. did you not read my other post?


I'm just teasing.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

beerdrnkr said:


> I'm not a JL fanboy or anything but I love the JL XD line of amps. I've ran the 400/4, 600/6, 200/2 and currently have the 800/8 and they've all performed flawlessly. They've all been mounted in the spare tire area with no ventilation or fans and have never shut off on me. I also like the wide variety of channels they make.


I really like the JL Audio XD amps too. Relatively fast switching, reliable, compact and very efficient. The ones I've used have been very quiet with no added noise/whine. 
I'm honestly surprised the Slash series has lasted this long with the HD and XD both doing so well. 
I just really wish they were made in Korea for purely socio-political purposes.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> I'm just teasing.


You better be lol. It should show that I'm not biased to a class also

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Children! Enough. All amps sound the same. Whatever. 


So back on topic, who here has the big Mac and can comment on how they like it. I g s been a dream amp but well over 10 years since I heard one. Some claim them to be clinical but I liked them. Granted it seems they like to develop cooling fan issues but wondered how reliable they are otherwise.


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Yes enough talk about class D. It's all about class T amps these days haha


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

PPI_GUY said:


> I really like the JL Audio XD amps too. Relatively fast switching, reliable, compact and very efficient. The ones I've used have been very quiet with no added noise/whine.
> I'm honestly surprised the Slash series has lasted this long with the HD and XD both doing so well.
> I just really wish they were made in Korea for purely socio-political purposes.


What do you mean by"relatively" fast switching, they switch at the same rate as HD 400000 HZ.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> Some claim them to be clinical but I liked them.


It always makes me curious when I hear audiophile-adjectives being used. What exactly is a "clinical" sound? How do you describe this sound, and what makes it different from other audiophile-adjectives?


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

TwistdInfinity said:


> Yes enough talk about class D. It's all about class T amps these days haha


T as tripath? that`s class D, trademarked by Tripath as classT. nothing to talk about really.
Uses proprietary techniques to control the pulse width modulation to produce what is claimed to be better performance (e.g., lower noise, lower distortion,) than other Class D amplifier designs. That was 20 years ago, since then tripath vent belly up in 2007


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Victor_inox said:


> T as tripath? that`s class D, trademarked by Tripath as classT. nothing to talk about really.
> Uses proprietary techniques to control the pulse width modulation to produce what is claimed to be better performance (e.g., lower noise, lower distortion,) than other Class D amplifier designs. That was 20 years ago, since then tripath vent belly up in 2007


Yep, 100% fully aware of everything you just said. But everyone was throwing around letters so I thought I'd throw another in!

You can still buy plenty of 'Class T' amps for home use on Amazon though


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

tri-path architecture was good enough to be cloned, copied, and mass produced by companies other than the namesake.

clinical is what you use to describe an amp that isn't warm sounding.

but cold, is what you call an ice cube.

so, clinical equates to cold, in the way that warm equates to distortion. Or, fuzzy.


A cold and fuzzy amp, is rarely paired well with speakers because the fizz just goes flat?

I was surprised the other day to find bubbles in some Moscato, it was cold and slightly fizzed. It paired well with chicken alfredo, and some grilled portabellos.

Now, it started off warm, but ended quite clinical because the black pepper specks were really fresh and oily, leaving a slight tinge of heat to linger.


black pepper, equates to clinical, you see...


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

cajunner said:


> tri-path architecture was good enough to be cloned, copied, and mass produced by companies other than the namesake.
> 
> clinical is what you use to describe an amp that isn't warm sounding.
> 
> ...


Love the analogy! 
So warm sounding amps mean distortion? So valve amplifiers distort more? Why are they sought after or do people like then less clinical sound because its less harsh or something


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## ZombieHunter85 (Oct 30, 2012)

The power acoustic Area 51 series!!!! lol


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

hurrication said:


> It always makes me curious when I hear audiophile-adjectives being used. What exactly is a "clinical" sound? How do you describe this sound, and what makes it different from other audiophile-adjectives?


i always wonder the exact same thing. and i always hear this. my guess, they read it and repeated it.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Im pretty fond of my big ole Image dynamics amps. Super clean and they do what I need well. That being said they are too damn big for my current install!


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

ImK'ed said:


> Love the analogy!
> So warm sounding amps mean distortion? So valve amplifiers distort more? Why are they sought after or do people like then less clinical sound because its less harsh or something


tube sound is round, fluffy, exuberant...

haha.

really, I would guess that the soft clipping you get with low-powered tube amps is really just making a compression, and most audiophile-centered people won't admit it, but a compressed sound is going to be easier to hear.

highly dynamic music, played on a system with the capability of high dynamic range, simply must be played very loudly to catch all the quieter parts, and some of us love that we can play that loud.

For others, using music as a backdrop instead of tinnitus, the compression of that music makes it easier to understand amidst the normal noises of everyday life.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

So audiophiles know its compression and distortion but they say its the sound signature and wont admit its actually changed the sound? So they hear what they want lol


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Just because things the amp does causes it to sound different does not mean amps sound different. I guess.


Clinical: Sterile and clean. It reproduces the signal in an accurate way but has no warmth.
Mac home amps tend to be "warm"  sounding due to the tubes and higher THD I would guess.

I dunno. I just buy the most expensive crap I can find and afford with minimal pimping. Guess that's why I bout over rated and over priced Mosconis this week.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> Just because things the amp does causes it to sound different does not mean amps sound different. I guess.
> 
> 
> Clinical: Sterile and clean. It reproduces the signal in an accurate way but has no warmth.
> ...


i think if you took a bit of time off of this, did a solid install with tweeters in the pillars, got a solid tune in, you would regret buying so much stuff.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Morel to the story is a good DSP/Tune/Install can work miracles. You cant polish a turd but you can make a good quality amp sound very good. 

Way to much elitist snake oil out there and people that nuke the basic stuff


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> i think if you took a bit of time off of this, did a solid install with tweeters in the pillars, got a solid tune in, you would regret buying so much stuff.


There is a method to my madness. The JLs are aging and I just wanted to try the Mosconi.
The power difference is minimal and I have no doubt there will not be any sound change as both are competently designed amps. 
I just think they are beautiful and I like the forced cooling as Texas gets really freakin hot. They will also fit my install perfectly with now wire changes. I got a killer deal on one and am working on the other right now. They are also a decade newer and I have yet to read one bad thing about them so for me they were a logical choice.
I have my dream sound now and want the reliability so I can just enjoy it for a few years.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> There is a method to my madness. The JLs are aging and I just wanted to try the Mosconi.
> The power difference is minimal and I have no doubt there will not be any sound change as both are competently designed amps.
> I just think they are beautiful and I like the forced cooling as Texas gets really freakin hot. They will also fit my install perfectly with now wire changes. I got a killer deal on one and am working on the other right now. They are also a decade newer and I have yet to read one bad thing about them so for me they were a logical choice.
> I have my dream sound now and want the reliability so I can just enjoy it for a few years.


good install, good tune. then worry about your amps. i bet you will be much happier without spending a ton of money


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Done with the tune and sound. Just doing it because I can.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

with those Sinfoni, you're going to want to replace those Mosconi with Sinfoni amps, which from what I "hear" is an upgrade...

are those Scan tweeters still in the stock location down in the door?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

cajunner said:


> with those Sinfoni, you're going to want to replace those Mosconi with Sinfoni amps, which from what I "hear" is an upgrade...
> 
> are those Scan tweeters still in the stock location down in the door?


yes.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> Done with the tune and sound. Just doing it because I can.


from what i remember you only did a very basic tune. i think if you get an experienced ear like you mentioned in your build log to help you out with it, you will be much better off, with or without the new amps


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I am not buying the amps to improve upon sound quality. Just want newer. 

My tune is ever evolving as I spend time with it. It was overwhelming adjusting each side in .5db increments but as time passes its getting there.


Yes the Scans are in the stock location but will be replaced with Sinfoni tweeters this weekend. They will allow for better mounting and I will be able to aim them better as I have very little room to work with on the Scans.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Victor_inox said:


> What do you mean by"relatively" fast switching, they switch at the same rate as HD 400000 HZ.


I thought I had read somewhere (possibly here) that the XD rate was slower...maybe 2400000 and the HD's were 400000 as you stated above. In fact, I think it might have been Manville Smith that provided the info. I definitely read somewhere there were different rates for the two series.
Maybe the v2 XD's have upped the switching rate?

****EDIT- *I found where I read about the 240 kHz switching frequency. It's at the JL website. Apparently their sub/mono channel amps switch at 240 kHz and the full range amps switch at the higher 400 kHz. Text is below...

_"Taking the above into account when designing the NexD™ subwoofer amplifiers, we have taken the simple fixed PWM approach and enhanced it with a very high switching frequency: *240 kHz*, which is about 4x higher than most Class D subwoofer amplifiers. This pushes the amplifier's bandwidth to at least 500 Hz with minimal distortion and improves efficiency, while keeping typically bulky circuity more compact. Your subwoofers will reward you with tight, rock-solid bass performance."_

XD700/5 - Car Audio - Amplifiers - XD - JL Audio


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Tee-hee!


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

PPI_GUY said:


> I thought I had read somewhere (possibly here) that the XD rate was slower...maybe 2400000 and the HD's were 400000 as you stated above. In fact, I think it might have been Manville Smith that provided the info. I definitely read somewhere there were different rates for the two series.
> Maybe the v2 XD's have upped the switching rate?
> 
> ****EDIT- *I found where I read about the 240 kHz switching frequency. It's at the JL website. Apparently their sub/mono channel amps switch at 240 kHz and the full range amps switch at the higher 400 kHz. Text is below...
> ...


XD has more similarities with HD than people think. especially full range sections.
from the same link you posted:
"For the full-range NexD™ amplifiers and channels we applied a variable, ultra-high speed version of the NexD™ technology (switching at well over 400 kHz). In these designs, a self-oscillating modulator with "feed-forward" sends information about the instantaneous power supply voltage to the modulator, combining this with the input signal to cancel out any distortion due to supply voltage fluctuation. This reduces distortion prior to applying feedback, simplifying the overall feedback loop design."


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> XD has more similarities with HD than people think. especially full range sections.
> from the same link you posted:
> "For the full-range NexD™ amplifiers and channels we applied a variable, ultra-high speed version of the NexD™ technology (switching at well over 400 kHz). In these designs, a self-oscillating modulator with "feed-forward" sends information about the instantaneous power supply voltage to the modulator, combining this with the input signal to cancel out any distortion due to supply voltage fluctuation. This reduces distortion prior to applying feedback, simplifying the overall feedback loop design."


Yes, but where do you install the flux capacitor?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Yes, but where do you install the flux capacitor?


Directly after the Turbo Encabulator.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

It`s already there like liserSVT said. :laugh:
in reality they have to protect their know how therefore mumbo jumbo sounding description.
I took both apart fixing PSU, very similar design. Just because of that I don`t see a reason to use HD over XD. In some regard I like XD better. repairability is ****ty for both unless defect is obvious.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> It`s already there like liserSVT said. :laugh:
> in reality they have to protect their know how therefore mumbo jumbo sounding description.
> I took both apart fixing PSU, very similar design. Just because of that I don`t see a reason to use HD over XD. In some regard I like XD better. repairability is ****ty for both unless defect is obvious.


Ever have a problem with the crossover switches? My cousin is currently having problems with his that is attributed to them. Any idea what the part number is?

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

never needed to replace on, no clue if they have part number. never seen a switch good cleaning doesn`t fixed.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> never needed to replace on, no clue if they have part number. never seen a switch good cleaning doesn`t fixed.


i cleaned it like a mad man. still nothing. when i flip the subsonic filter switch on, we get no power out of it. after cleaning, same thing but now acting even weirder


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> i cleaned it like a mad man. still nothing. when i flip the subsonic filter switch on, we get no power out of it. after cleaning, same thing but now acting even weirder


 it could be not a switch, solder leads on switch legs, short leads in the same manner original switch works see if it works. if it doesn`t good luck to you.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Victor_inox said:


> It`s already there like liserSVT said. :laugh:
> in reality they have to protect their know how therefore mumbo jumbo sounding description.
> I took both apart fixing PSU, very similar design. Just because of that I don`t see a reason to use HD over XD. In some regard I like XD better. repairability is ****ty for both unless defect is obvious.


My favorite feature of the XD is their quietness. 104 db S/N ratio I believe? Not sure which method was used to achieve that number but, the ones I've heard are dead quiet
A local JL dealer agrees with you Victor_inox. He says he recommends the XD's over the HD's to all his customers. 
The XD line has been out for some time. I wonder when/if we will see any cosmetic changes? Not that they are ugly, it's just that they haven't been altered visually since they were introduced.


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## Justintime (Sep 23, 2014)

No McIntosh lovers


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

Victor_inox said:


> It`s already there like liserSVT said. :laugh:
> in reality they have to protect their know how therefore mumbo jumbo sounding description.
> I took both apart fixing PSU, very similar design. Just because of that I don`t see a reason to use HD over XD. In some regard I like XD better. repairability is ****ty for both unless defect is obvious.


Interesting...I'm in the process of swapping out my XD's for HD's only because the HD monoblocks can be run much higher frequency wise. If the monoblock XD's could be used to power midrange/midbass then I would definitely stick with the XD's, I have absolutely no complaints with them so far...


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

SQram said:


> Interesting...I'm in the process of swapping out my XD's for HD's only because the HD monoblocks can be run much higher frequency wise. If the monoblock XD's could be used to power midrange/midbass then I would definitely stick with the XD's, I have absolutely no complaints with them so far...


Curious as to why you didn't just pickup one of the XD200/2 full range amps for your mids? That would seem to be a much more cost effective solution than buying 2-3 of the HD series which come with a higher price tag.


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

PPI_GUY said:


> Curious as to why you didn't just pickup one of the XD200/2 full range amps for your mids? That would seem to be a much more cost effective solution than buying 2-3 of the HD series which come with a higher price tag.


I have a XD 600/6 configued in 4 channel mode right now 75x2 + 200x2. I run a pair of Dynaudio MW 182's as midbasses on the rear channels, the amplifier runs out of steam well before the Dyn's do. 

I have a pair of HD 750/1's sitting at home I'll run on the midbasses when I get the time. If the XD 600/1's could be used up over 1KHz. I'd run a pair of them instead, I have one on the bench at home...


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Justintime said:


> No McIntosh lovers


On the contrary. My ultimate be all end all I amp that I have ever wanted is the McIntosh MC4000M. I dont care that its old and some say its clinical. I always liked them and think they are the most beautiful amp ever made. Problem is the ones that do show up for sale need a $1000 service done on top of whatever nuts price tag the person wants. Saw one couple weeks ago the dude wanted $6000 because it was just serviced. I wanted to kick him in the nards.
Clinical. Clinical means without any BS, get the job done and be as clean as possible. 

But yeah, I love this beast. Only installed one in my life and was forever in love.


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## Instaburn (Aug 22, 2013)

DDfusion said:


> Morel to the story is a good DSP/Tune/Install can work miracles. You cant polish a turd but you can make a good quality amp sound very good.
> 
> Way to much elitist snake oil out there and people that nuke the basic stuff


Moral..

Morel are the speaker folks..


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

LaserSVT said:


> On the contrary. My ultimate be all end all I amp that I have ever wanted is the McIntosh MC4000M. I dont care that its old and some say its clinical. I always liked them and think they are the most beautiful amp ever made. Problem is the ones that do show up for sale need a $1000 service done on top of whatever nuts price tag the person wants. Saw one couple weeks ago the dude wanted $6000 because it was just serviced. I wanted to kick him in the nards.
> Clinical. Clinical means without any BS, get the job done and be as clean as possible.
> 
> But yeah, I love this beast. Only installed one in my life and was forever in love.


 Nice. I have 440M for sale in very good to perfect condition with full service done to it. asking 1200. 6000 for 4000M is insane asking price but hey you can ask whatever you want, no one will ever pay that much anyway. mint one sold on ebay in April for 2424 and that is a fair price for it.http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-NEAR-MINT-MCINTOSH-MC4000M-6-CHANNEL-QUALITY-AMPLIFIER-MADE-IN-THE-U-S-A-/201336062614?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ee0908296&nma=true&si=slNZrkWaB0yfrlU6DqF5KScMPiI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
these amps became hard to come across in good condition.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

PPI_GUY said:


> My favorite feature of the XD is their quietness. 104 db S/N ratio I believe? Not sure which method was used to achieve that number but, the ones I've heard are dead quiet
> A local JL dealer agrees with you Victor_inox. He says he recommends the XD's over the HD's to all his customers.
> The XD line has been out for some time. I wonder when/if we will see any cosmetic changes? Not that they are ugly, it's just that they haven't been altered visually since they were introduced.


If it`s not broken don`t fix it, design of the square box is unnecessary to change, XD/2 stayed almost the same as xd/1
HD just as quiet, but cost more money. I actually like XD case design more.
I don`t sell JL gear but if I ever will my recommendations would be based on
usefulness to the customer and XD kick ass in that regard.
I don`t see myself using any of D class for midbass and tweeters maybe only if I`ve had electric vehicle to save energy. 
For me amps does not sound the same and I prefer softer sound of the tubes or single ended A class solid state, but there none of them exist for mobile market. I can make it but so is tuber. As a compromise tube preamp with class D power sounds very nice.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> If it`s not broken don`t fix it, design of the square box is unnecessary to change, XD/2 stayed almost the same as xd/1
> HD just as quiet, but cost more money. I actually like XD case design more.
> I don`t sell JL gear but if I ever will my recommendations would be based on
> usefulness to the customer and XD kick ass in that regard.
> ...


Mercury makes tube car amps. 4 channel.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

subterFUSE said:


> Mercury makes tube car amps. 4 channel.


 thanks, I make my own tube amps, single ended solid state that what I was referring to. 30W/ch solid state A class sounds extremely well but get very hot and I have my plate full without taking on that project.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> Nice. I have 440M for sale in very good to perfect condition with full service done to it. asking 1200. 6000 for 4000M is insane asking price but hey you can ask whatever you want, no one will ever pay that much anyway. mint one sold on ebay in April for 2424 and that is a fair price for it.RARE Near Mint McIntosh MC4000M 6 Channel Quality Amplifier Made in The U s A | eBay
> these amps became hard to come across in good condition.


I almost jumped through the screen and chokes you. Then I saw you wrote 440M not 4000M. LOL

I hope I enjoy my new setup. I have two amps on the way that cost more by themselves than any stereo I ever owned and I got them both for dimes on the dollar. LOL
Plus for all current amps I think they look killer and the forced cooling is the big thing I wanted for these Texas Summers.

It wasnt even that warm today and the truck sits in the shade but my new bag of gummy life savers melted into a solid gooey brick of a tannish yellow gum as gooey as gum that sits on hot asphalt. LOL


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

LaserSVT said:


> I almost jumped through the screen and chokes you. Then I saw you wrote 440M not 4000M. LOL
> 
> I hope I enjoy my new setup. I have two amps on the way that cost more by themselves than any stereo I ever owned and I got them both for dimes on the dollar. LOL
> Plus for all current amps I think they look killer and the forced cooling is the big thing I wanted for these Texas Summers.
> ...


Trust me if I`ve had 4000M it will be going to the wall into my home theater setup not my truck. that amp looks way too good for a trunk.
you should post a picture of that gummy goo.:laugh: I have two amps that cost more than the rest of my car audio and they will make their way into my trunk eventually.Or so I hope.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Pretty hard to argue with how sexy the above posted McIntosh looks... but insanely inefficient, and a total waste of trunk space.

I love the McIntosh, for all the same reasons that I love Brax (which, by the way, would be my dream amp): *Build Quality*. 

If I had cash to burn, and was just building a pure sound quality setup, with no other concerns, I'd run a Brax MX4B for the tweeter and mids, and a Brax MX2B for the drivers. 

with all that said, as I think back on the progression of amplifiers that I have used, they were all good, in their day. And they all served me well, for what I wanted.

When I first started (back in the late 80's), I had a couple Alpine amps. They sounded good (or so I thought). I got them, because my buddies all said Alpine was the best.

Then I moved to Rockford Punch amps, in the early 2000's. Similar logic to above. They looked cool, and they were all the rage, at the time.

Then I started educating myself about audio equipment, and got a set of Rockford Power Series amps. They definitely had a lot more power, but I believe the real improvement was that I also bought an original Rockford 360 DSP to go with them.

Once I figured out how to properly tune a DSP, my world changed. I swapped the Rockford Power Series for Zapco amps. Mainly because they looked cool (surfboards). I don't think they sounded any better, or even any different... just a bit louder. They were huge, took all my trunk space, and got hotter than Hades! I still own them (down in my basement). Something about them, I just can't part with them...

Now, I'm at the stage in my life (kids and sports gear to lug around), where trunk space is a high priority. I swapped the Zapco amps, for a couple Focal Class D amps. Again, I don't think the Class D amps sound any better, or any worse than the Zapco's... but they are tiny, they stay cool, and they are perfect for what I need right now.

Long story short... 

For practicality I would definitely stick with the Focal FPD amps. They are 'second to none'. 

For pure sexy I would get a set of Brax.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Don't take this the wrong way as on average my spelling and grammar is atrocious but I couldn't help notice that you use a plethora of commas, usually in the wrong way.

On another note, I completely agree with your post.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

How you know McIntosh is less efficient than Brax?
Any Brax is no smaller than McIntosh too.
While I think that Brax makes finest amplifiers of today it`s wrong to dismiss sexy like hell UV meters on mac..


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> How you know McIntosh is less efficient than Brax?


I didn't say they were...



Victor_inox said:


> Any Brax is no smaller than McIntosh too.


Again, I didn't say they were (or weren't)



Victor_inox said:


> While I think that Brax makes finest amplifiers of today it`s wrong to dismiss sexy like hell UV meters on mac..


Hard to argue with this... UV meters (although completely useless) do add a definite sexiness!


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

LaserSVT said:


> On the contrary. My ultimate be all end all I amp that I have ever wanted is the McIntosh MC4000M. I dont care that its old and some say its clinical. I always liked them and think they are the most beautiful amp ever made. Problem is the ones that do show up for sale need a $1000 service done on top of whatever nuts price tag the person wants. Saw one couple weeks ago the dude wanted $6000 because it was just serviced. I wanted to kick him in the nards.
> Clinical. Clinical means without any BS, get the job done and be as clean as possible.
> 
> But yeah, I love this beast. Only installed one in my life and was forever in love.


Services? Like new caps etc? 

Been toying with the thought of a McIntosh MCC406M. It is "realistic" with what I need. 4000M is too much of a unicorn for me to even think about


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Yeah they usually replace caps and a few other things. Not sure what as I have never been fortunate enough to own one of those beasts.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

My new babies.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

My favorites are the ones I use, and the reason is BECAUSE


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

ZUKI Eleets v1.. because I haven't installed my Mosconi's yet


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## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> My new babies.


Gotta love some sweet Mosconi goodness. I know I do


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Love my Sinfoni Prestigio. Class A.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lovescaramplifiers (Aug 11, 2015)

I currently own about 60 amps. I have tried hundreds in the past years. I am rather new to amps but have fallen in love with them in mobile car audio. I have read the forums and tested them with my ears in my cars. Head units of course should be good to test an amp PRS, clarion, alpine old school and Denom. Then speakers. The best speakers I own are Audison Thesis 3ay, then my ZR's, then Morel Supremo's. then my Dynes. For tweets scan, eton, accuton, picallos, berrilium, focal these types are needed when going after hi end amps. For me its about mid and hi sound quality clarity. Some amps like tube amps are going to be far different from clean crisp musical amps the dry amps..I know and have heard the differences. So here goes my 2 cents. 

amps I can buy or own 
1. Phass RE 50 or any Phass amps. Constant current amps huge EI Cores.
2. Celestra VA210 and Class A
3. Luxman CM20000 Amazing amplifier, a 2 channel sounds like a 4, Luxman's sound grounded, smooth but silky...If Saran Wrap had a sound...
4. Audio Wave very sophisticated English leather sound like cognac 
5. Mcintosh amps 4000 404 431 427 302 602 et al
6. Alpine Juba 3546, 3545, alpine F1 status MRV-F900 
7. Adzest clarion apa4300hx and a640 
8 adcom gfa 4702 and my modified 4402 best voice amps ever made imho. 
9. Audison Thesis or Venti 
10 Mosconi Class A and Zero's 
11. Sinfoni Prestigio and Desiderio. allegro is a good but underpowered 
12. Genesis DMA DME Gen III sucks profile is ok but not great 
13 Brax MX series belongs..and the 2400GE.. I own the MX, NOX, and x2400
14. Tru Billett Modified 3-4 
15. Ground Zero Pure Reference 
16. Hybrid Audio Legatia - in pre productin 
17 Musee MA 1502, 
18 Bewith 110SII

old school loves 
Audio Art HC100 and HC 50 
PPI ART 600.2
Soundstream Human Reign 
Diamond D7104
Monolithic Class A 
Rockford best class old school and punch 
Orion XTR and NT200 
Phoenix Gold ZPA 0.5 0.3 and MS2125 
Furi HQ 2200 
Pheonix Gold frank amp stein etc..

Unicorn amps in no particular order of amazing
ADS px/a 8 channel 
Audison H100
Genesis P15
Abyss - tube amps
Zelos tube amps
Tru copper C47t and all tube amps 
PPI 2500F1
PG MPH6300 
PG M1000 - and 2250 and other Pheonix special edition amps like Cyclone, outlaw reactor route 66. 

less expensive production amps to look at 
ARC se4200 modified and KS series 
Zapco CK and 150 ZLX
Digital Design SB4B
Zuki 
crossfire XSSQ4/American bass
Pheonix Gold Elite 4 
Harmotech udc
mercury K2
Musee xa804 MA 502 504 250


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So since this thread has kind of run its course I am going to go ahead and beat the dead horse again about amps sounding better. I often give customers rides and they love to hear the stereo and some have certain songs they request me to play. I have not told anyone about the Mosconis and they are hidden so they dont know anything has changed. These are people that have been in the truck how it is setup now just when it had the JL amps. Today was the 5th person to say "What did you do? You change speakers again? It always sounded really good but this is just excellent! The bass is so much cleaner and stronger now and the highs sound like you are at home! I have never heard a truck like this." So we get to where we are going and I jam out a couple other songs they have heard in the truck and they just really get into the music. I tell them nope, all the same speakers and deck they heard before. Just swapped amps. next thing they say is "These have a lot more power and sound way way better." I tell them that the rated power is within 20% of what I had before and then say what I hear on here all the time "But all amps sound the same." To which I always get a "What are you, retarded?" kind of look from them.

Blind test. They had no idea anything was changed yet noticed a significant increase in sub bass impact and overall system definition and clarity. That pretty much end the argument for me on weather or not amps all sound the same.

Yeah some of you will chime in with hearing memory being poor or tuning modifications or whatever but fact of the matter is better amps sound better. Every person who knows about the change has commented on how much better the truck sounds and those who have no idea about sound systems or that I changed anything also are very adamant about how much better the stereo sounds now.


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## bozinho (Aug 9, 2015)

My god some really good amps than people love!!!!
I don't much about new generation i stay an old school dreamer!!!
In first i really like Phoenix Gold MS2125!!a lot of very good power!!!he put my Brax on sale immediatly when i try it!!!
Really love old RF punch and power black serie!!!
Now i'm trying Diamond serie D7!!!very good for bass and midbass...gone try the 7054 on mids and tweets soon!!!
So many other than i forget!!!


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm sure those mosconi amps are great. I do believe amps sound different but I do agree that they can be tuned to sound very similar as well.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

i don't think i would be able to hear any difference particularly in Amps. i have however heard the set up my uncle has in his CRV. they're old Alpines and i think pioneer amp? i can't remember. His set up sounds muddy at best, but the bass is pretty punchy. He's had that set up since the dinosaur ages. To give y'all a perspective, it was installed by GoodGuys 

I've had my JL Slash v2 Amps and HD amp for about 4 years or so and i just love them. before these i had Boston GTA amps and the did their job. I'm more partial toward the JL amps mainly for aesthetics.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> T as tripath? that`s class D, trademarked by Tripath as classT. nothing to talk about really.
> Uses proprietary techniques to control the pulse width modulation to produce what is claimed to be better performance (e.g., lower noise, lower distortion,) than other Class D amplifier designs. That was 20 years ago, since then tripath vent belly up in 2007


Like this: http://amp-performance.de/1331-NoName.html


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

teldzc1 said:


> Like this: ARC Audio ARC1500 XXK


 this is it.


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## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

My new babies.. I can not wait until they get here!


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## bozinho (Aug 9, 2015)

Wouaouuuu what is the model this on right??


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## audiobaun (Jun 8, 2011)

My all time favorite amps/amps have been my Old Autotek White Mean Machines..Mainly the 99 in which has always served very well and still does today.I have 4 total,two working excellent in stereo mode and @ 2ohms mono are pretty brute.Ive always seem to place those back in of just about every system Ive ever had.They sound really nice,compared to several newer amps Ive ran.I also enjoy the Autotek BTS/BTX series amps as well that I have,and some of the Hifonics VII,VIII series amps..Newer version amps Im enjoying the American Bass VFL 4480.1s I have and the 150.4 is nice,and the PPI 900.4 is pretty decent.But I seem to go back to the Older amps for some reason?I too have over 40 amps ,a nice small collection that Ive enjoyed over the years.


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## Dynamic SQ (Jul 25, 2015)

bozinho said:


> Wouaouuuu what is the model this on right??



Desiderio


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## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

Dynamic SQ said:


> Desiderio


Yessir ^

The entire Sinfoni La Prima line up, Prestigio, Prodigio and the Desiderio.. All are amazing but the Big D comes with some hefty WOW factor.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

from David Yeh, a Korean amp 

¿³¸Î¨T¨®­µÅT -- ¡iEPOCH¡j¤GÁn¹DAÃþ¨®¥ÎÂX¤j¾÷E-16¡¯AMPÂX¤j¾¹E16

I wonder how they compared to the Audio Art series, isn't this a look people here would like?

Sort of like a Zuki, maybe...


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

I have to say after running my Audio Systems 70.6 I'm pretty much in love with it. Seems like there is way more than 70w rms on first four channels and a ton more power than 380w rms on bridged 5&6.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

deeppinkdiver said:


> My new babies.. I can not wait until they get here!


for the first time I feel the line from fast in the furious "not a bad way to spend 10,000 dollars" applies appropriately! 

Holy gorgeous amps! I never thought anybody would buy the big boy sinfoni!


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I'll let Steve play with them for a while before sending to me

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I just want to get nekkid and have some alone time with that Sinfoni Desiderio. So sexy.

All joking aside if I could have any amp setup in the world it would be that trio right there. Have the matching Grandioso speakers to go with it. One day when I get my 2005 AMG CL65 I will have that setup. Funny thing is the car is cheap at $32k used. The stereo would be every bit as much! LOL


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

Favorite amps I've used are probably my Ground Zero amps. I loved the Zed Leviathan III too, when it worked. I can't be happy with something that I'm afraid is going to break though.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

gckless said:


> Favorite amps I've used are probably my Ground Zero amps. I loved the Zed Leviathan III too, when it worked. I can't be happy with something that I'm afraid is going to break though.


Did those amps get fixed with no issues?

I want to try some mids but I'm not a good online shopper


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

DDfusion said:


> Did those amps get fixed with no issues?
> 
> I want to try some mids but I'm not a good online shopper


Only the one had a problem, and it was just overheating. Gotta love 105 degrees in the shade. But yeah, he shipped me a new one before I even took the old one out. Seriously, can't beat these guys in customer service.

Edit: wait, I was talking about the GZ amp. The Zed also got fixed, each time.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Talking about the GZs. That's good to hear


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## omnibus (Feb 20, 2015)

For mono blocks it's MTX Thunder Elite 1501d. Has every feature under the sun. Full range amp I really like my JL Slash and XD. Favorite old school amp i guess would have to be my Punch 60


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Huge fan of my JBL MS amps right now. You never really know all the neatO tricks they pack into something like this until you use it. They do look a little childish though


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

I am loving the BRAX MX4. I have it powering the Brax M3CPP set. Sheer power baby! I am starting to figure some things out with gains and levels and it keeps getting better. The clarity of image this amp helps to produce at any volume level is down right crazy.

There are several good to great amps out there but as of right now I am so happy with the Brax MX4. IT'S A BEAST!


**I also really like the Mosconi ZERO line.**


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

I am loving the BRAX MX4. I have it powering the Brax M3CPP set. Sheer power baby! I am starting to figure some things out with gains and levels and it keeps getting better. The clarity of image this amp helps to produce at any volume level is down right crazy.

There are several good to great amps out there but as of right now I am so happy with the Brax MX4. IT'S A BEAST!


**I also really like the Mosconi ZERO line.**


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## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

Beautiful Mike..

Got this monster via Fedex yesterday.. My god it is impressive at first sight. Mouse for reference of its size.


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## luq79 (Aug 13, 2015)

Lycancatt said:


> ppi art series, just cant get over them somehow, had a complete set and am sure I will again someday.
> 
> for more modern/relyable but still badass looking, the big Memphis belle amps with the airplane on them, that's art I can feel and appreciate.


precision power isnt what they use to be:bigcry: but back in the day your right they were something to be proud of.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

deeppinkdiver said:


> Beautiful Mike..
> 
> Got this monster via Fedex yesterday.. My god it is impressive at first sight. Mouse for reference of its size.


Damn bro that really does look good!


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

LaserSVT said:


> I just want to get nekkid and have some alone time with that Sinfoni Desiderio. So sexy.
> 
> All joking aside if I could have any amp setup in the world it would be that trio right there. Have the matching Grandioso speakers to go with it. One day when I get my 2005 AMG CL65 I will have that setup. Funny thing is the car is cheap at $32k used. The stereo would be every bit as much! LOL


I've been lusting over this Mercedes. A local wheel shop posted this on their Facebook after finishing it. I'm in love! The shop is KC Trends and they do a lot of high end stuff. The owner has a 430 Scuderia that is very nice!


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

The Brax and Sinfoni amps are just beautiful. Must be nice!


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

I love this thread.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

just rolled out of bed and saw the this thread in "new threads" and thought it read " what is an amplifier and why" lol. that being said, this brax x2000 i just got is damn beautiful, and feels like it was build from steel and concrete


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2015)

The Big D for DeepPinkDiver....

Three words.... "Audio Coffee table".... 

Absolutely... the biggest, baddest BRASS BALLS around....

Single most impressive amplifier I've ever physically held in my sweaty little hands....


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

deeppinkdiver said:


> Beautiful Mike..
> 
> Got this monster via Fedex yesterday.. My god it is impressive at first sight. Mouse for reference of its size.


 Now what vehicle to buy so you can mount it so you can see it when driving?
That I would be asking myself.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SQ_TSX said:


> The Big D for DeepPinkDiver....
> 
> Three words.... "Audio Coffee table"....
> 
> ...


I don`t like you two right now....


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2015)

OUCH....








_Class A Goodness_


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

another BRAX fan.....
amps are built like tanks, with high quality materials, very reliable, powerfull, neutral sounding, with conservative design.....


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2015)

Agreed..... I do like me some square Brax amps also....


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> I don`t like you two right now....


LMAO!


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SQ_TSX said:


> OUCH....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rgiorgio (Nov 21, 2012)

Alphasonic amps from the mid and late 80's. Used them in everything. Also, i had a Concord amp that was just a beast back then. My all time favorite was my McIntosh MCC444 from year 2000. 110 x 4 crystal clear. Drove my MB Quart Q Series to their limits.


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## hawaiiguy (Apr 11, 2015)

Focal 600.4 Wow how and why would they stop making this after only 1 year? It won every award it could and was rated the best amp out there. That most experts reviewed it to be a "tube" amp in a tiny digital package is what sold me. And I got it for under 300 brand new. I run my Focal K2s and my Focal P21 8" sub in a custom Bubinga hardwood sealed enclosure and its simply lights out the best system package you can put together for the money. I put it under my Tundra front seat 6 months ago and haven't thought about it since, even while playing it for 2+ hours and still being able to start my truck no problem Thats the bonus round there, 600 watts of high end digital switching magic and no battery drain!


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## diymobileaudio997 (Apr 15, 2015)

JL Audio XD700/5


* good size
* easy to connect
* includes a channel for the subwoofer
* better than stock
* paired with a Helix DSP it fits my needs


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## icu812 (Jan 12, 2009)

My most favorite amp is the Orion HCCA 275g4 and the 250g4 same internals as the g3's just sexier these are bullet proof plenty power and can take the heat
the PG ti series, US Amps, Zapco, and of course the RF. Punch 45,75,150 Power 300,650 and1000
Of course all these are old school


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I liked the old punch amps a lot then. In recent times (6 years ago) I was running a jl 300/2 and a pair of 500/1s slash series amps and some focal k2p and w7 subs. I really liked those amps. No matter how hard I got on em they just wouldn't quit. They always seemed to have plenty of power in reserve and to me they sounded wonderful with what I was running with them. I'm still using a slash 250/1 on a 10 .

Honestly it surprised me but I'm running a jl xd 400/4 ok some focal flax and it sounds really good with them though it may be the speakers. Very warm open and deep. I know it could be better but by how much I'd really like to know because I don't think I'd ever be able to hear it.


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## DarkStar (Jun 23, 2012)

I have several favorites as I think back through the years. Currently in my car I am running Mosconi and it does great. On the flip side in price, in my truck I have PPI BK amps, and am still amazed at what they do at that price point. 
Going back when I started a few years ago lol, I think my favorite back then was the original PPI 2150m. Very close though were the original Orion hcca and XTR amps, the old Phoenix Gold and even Kenwood KAC921s haha. Paid a kings ransom for that old stuff and they were pure amp, no extra anything. 
Amazing what the improvement in source material drove the rest of the system to anymore.


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

I've been watching this go on for about 9 pages now, sitting out and observing, and have seen at least one of a few self proclaimed "experts" contradict themselves and backtrack numerous times on this topic... humorous reading at times, to say the least! 

All that aside, I can say that there are many factors to be considered before you can truly judge the performance of an amplifier, and the lack of first addressing those factors will lead to false conclusions regarding any given amp.

If you have not first addressed your signal source, your cabling, your power supply and the quality of loudspeaker with which you are evaluating the performance of any particular amp, your results will be all over the map.

I'm tired of hearing people saying that budget amplifier brand x is as good as premium amplifier brand z just because they lack the ears, experience and gear to tell the difference.

As for the question presented by the OP, I do have a favorite...

I've grown dissatisfied with many amps over the years, but I cannot imagine that I will ever part with my current or future Sinfoni amplifiers. They're pretty ****ing amazing... and I say this after a few decades of messing around in car audio...

of course, ymmv... but I'm content


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

XSIV SPL said:


> I've been watching this go on for about 9 pages now, sitting out and observing, and have seen at least one of a few self proclaimed "experts" contradict themselves and backtrack numerous times on this topic... humorous reading at times, to say the least!
> 
> All that aside, I can say that there are many factors to be considered before you can truly judge the performance of an amplifier, and the lack of first addressing those factors will lead to false conclusions regarding any given amp.
> 
> ...


I am pretty excited about tomorrow. First time I get to play with a Sinfoni amp. It may spoil me forever being its a 60.1 HD. Just holding it and looking at it its a simplistic beautiful brick. I really look forward to how it compares to one of my older favorites the JL 300/4 V1.


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## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

XSIV SPL said:


> I've been watching this go on for about 9 pages now, sitting out and observing, and have seen at least one of a few self proclaimed "experts" contradict themselves and backtrack numerous times on this topic... humorous reading at times, to say the least!
> 
> All that aside, I can say that there are many factors to be considered before you can truly judge the performance of an amplifier, and the lack of first addressing those factors will lead to false conclusions regarding any given amp.
> 
> ...



Amen.. After 20 plus years of "playing" in this hobby I also swear by Sinfoni amplifiers for all reasons mentioned. I am finally at peace in my search and have enough Sinfoni power for several builds.

Bill- you will absolutely have a different impression of the SQ from the Maestoso powered by that Class A amplifier built by Sinfoni. It is a stunning amplifier to say the least.


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## omnibus (Feb 20, 2015)

XSIV SPL said:


> I've been watching this go on for about 9 pages now, sitting out and observing, and have seen at least one of a few self proclaimed "experts" contradict themselves and backtrack numerous times on this topic... humorous reading at times, to say the least!
> 
> All that aside, I can say that there are many factors to be considered before you can truly judge the performance of an amplifier, and the lack of first addressing those factors will lead to false conclusions regarding any given amp.
> 
> ...


Even with all the perfect factors in place, it will not yield one single opinion for any subject related to audio that is correct. It's like trying to tell a left handed person that only using the right hand is correct. Just use whatever you want and let them use whatever they want without force of opinions. Also most people in general will get tired of a particular signature sound eventually when listening to the same music all the time and is why they often change it up or alter their original opinion all the time. I change my tuning once a year easily, just to hear my music a little differently and most here probably do similar. But I have noticed that the audiophiles out there that are serious about quality typically own several different brands of high end head phones, amps..etc...so obviously the die hards need a change in signature too.

My general opinion is that SQ is different for everyone and the point of diminishing returns will be at a different point for each person. For example, I know from experience that I personally have never liked nor ever will like the kind of head phones that audiophiles with alleged "golden ears" prefer and have wasted too much money trying to do so.
I also hate..hate the sound of vinyl records. I never found the warm sound of tube amps to be anything special either. And even with home theater where setup isn't nearly as complicated as car audio, I thought the Sovereign Glory amp with the Grandia Utopia speakers was a waste of money...at least with music as it's just likely that it's way past my point of diminishing return and not what I would really call SQ. But to someone else, it might be the cat's tits.


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## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

I had used Sinfoni for a year and half and all I can say is "WOW". I fell in love and hooked the first time I listen to them. I had owned maybe five or six of them in the past.

Well, recently I replaced with MAC mcc404 in which I had the amp fully recapped in the power supply section plus Nichicon gold caps (FG/muse) at signal path plus preamp. I was surprise that MAC use only general purpose type caps, maybe gold caps are just gimmicks. 

MAC seems to have more power and will take some time for me to really listen to see if I can hear a difference. 

So for mids/highs Sinfoni and MAC are one of my all time favorites. Plus old Soundstream class A100II's. Brax Graphic Edition are nice sounding too to me.

For subs my favorite are US Amps 2000(x), xterminator 400x and Eclipse DA7323. I am sure there might be couple others but these amps I had used in extended time so I know them well.

Almost forgot old PG MS/MPS (gold plated trace) are very nice sounding to me also.

There are so many other expensive high end amps that I never had the chance or pleasure to listen to them. Especially like Japanese made amps.


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

omnibus said:


> Even with all the perfect factors in place, it will not yield one single opinion for any subject related to audio that is correct. It's like trying to tell a left handed person that only using the right hand is correct. Just use whatever you want and let them use whatever they want without force of opinions. Also most people in general will get tired of a particular signature sound eventually when listening to the same music all the time and is why they often change it up or alter their original opinion all the time. I change my tuning once a year easily, just to hear my music a little differently and most here probably do similar. But I have noticed that the audiophiles out there that are serious about quality typically own several different brands of high end head phones, amps..etc...so obviously the die hards need a change in signature too.
> 
> My general opinion is that SQ is different for everyone and the point of diminishing returns will be at a different point for each person. For example, I know from experience that I personally have never liked nor ever will like the kind of head phones that audiophiles with alleged "golden ears" prefer and have wasted too much money trying to do so.
> I also hate..hate the sound of vinyl records. I never found the warm sound of tube amps to be anything special either. And even with home theater where setup isn't nearly as complicated as car audio, I thought the Sovereign Glory amp with the Grandia Utopia speakers was a waste of money...at least with music as it's just likely that it's way past my point of diminishing return and not what I would really call SQ. But to someone else, it might be the cat's tits.




I guess my question for you is as the OP presented... What's your favorite amplifier and why?

I've yet to meet someone who has experienced Sinfoni and has not at least added it to their list for consideration... It seems you are included 

I've been running Sinfoni since before running Sinfoni was "cool"...


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Why are you so angry?


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm not angry at all, Victor.

Sinfoni amps are superior in almost every aspect when it comes to accuracy and delivered performance as compared to others...

They aren't superior just because I use them....

I use them because they are superior.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

XSIV SPL said:


> I'm not angry at all, Victor.
> 
> Sinfoni amps are superior in almost every aspect when it comes to accuracy and delivered performance as compared to others...
> 
> ...


 You do? since when?


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> You do? since when?


Seriously, Victor? 

I've been using Sinfoni since I learned for myself that Sinfoni is actually better, which seems to have been way earlier than running Sinfoni became "cool"


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

XSIV SPL said:


> Seriously, Victor?


Arent you the guy who screamed from the bottom of your lungs just recently that all amps sounds the same, or I mistaken you for someone with the same screen name? SPL guy switched sides, awesome!


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> Arent you the guy who screamed from the bottom of your lungs just recently that all amps sounds the same, or I mistaken you for someone with the same screen name?


No, Victor...

I have never claimed that all amps sound the same. They do in fact all sound quite different, sir.

Don't lump me in with the likes of SkizeR. We're not at all alike.

If you can find ANY reference here to support your erroneous depiction of me, please post it up pronto, but you won't. So please be a bit more cautious when mistaking one user for another, eh Victor?


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

XSIV SPL said:


> I guess my question for you is as the OP presented... What's your favorite amplifier and why?
> 
> I've yet to meet someone who has experienced Sinfoni and has not at least added it to their list for consideration... It seems you are included
> 
> I've been running Sinfoni since before running Sinfoni was "cool"...


Never considered it... for even a second.

Glad to be the first!


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Skizer has nothing to do with it I can read for myself. You switched camps and that's what matter.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Perhaps it's time to change your screen name too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Sorry, Victor, you're not making sense here....


And DLO13, stop stalking me. Build a system... Then talk...


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

XSIV SPL said:


> Sorry, Victor, you're not making sense here....
> 
> 
> And DLO13, stop stalking me. Build a system... Then talk...


 Where is the pictures of that system of yours, care to share?


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> Where is the pictures of that system of yours, care to share?


Victor, are you retarded? Seriously... There are many photos of my system up here already.... Go look for them.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Shocking this thread has been reduced to a p*ssing match. Shocking that it took this long, I mean.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

I'm not a pro and not taking anyone sides when it comes to amps and so on, but what I really noticed a huge difference is in cabling. I put some crappy RCA on my system coming from H800 to my amps, Mosconi AS 300.2 AS 100.4 and Audiosn for sub, I could really tell a big difference in sound quality. 

Did i noticed a difference coming from some old Earthquake to JL slash amps, to Zuki Audio, hell yea I did, 
Did I notice a difference coming from Zuki to Mosconi, a little but not much... 

Everything that we do for our cars and sound systems, we want to make sure not only we have good product, but good wires to support the sound and power.

And than there goes tuning....

That's just my own experience.


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## n2deep3d (Jul 19, 2015)

Soundstream Class A 3.0

First quality amp I bought. 12.5 Watts x 2

Only local show I went to when I was young and did 140.4 with 2 SS SPL12's running off of one 3.0 in a 1988 Dodge Daytona.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

XSIV SPL said:


> Victor, are you retarded? Seriously... There are many photos of my system up here already.... Go look for them.


You started ZERO threads on this board, how I suppose to find it?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

XSIV SPL said:


> No, Victor...
> 
> I have never claimed that all amps sound the same. They do in fact all sound quite different, sir.
> 
> ...


Don't assume. I don't think they sound the same. I dont think i have ever flat out said all amps soind the same no matter what. As a matter of fact, I'm 99% positive they don't after today, but no real testing went down so I'm not saying for sure yet. What I DID say, was that a sundown 5k won't sound any worse than your imaginary 50 thousand dollars 5k amp on a wall with 18s in an spl build.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

XSIV SPL said:


> Sorry, Victor, you're not making sense here....
> 
> 
> And DLO13, stop stalking me. Build a system... Then talk...


If I recall, you don't do your own installs. How pathetic and hypocritical lol. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Also, while we have so many sinfoni fans in here.. do they normally run crazy hot?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## omnibus (Feb 20, 2015)

XSIV SPL said:


> I guess my question for you is as the OP presented... What's your favorite amplifier and why?
> 
> I've yet to meet someone who has experienced Sinfoni and has not at least added it to their list for consideration... It seems you are included
> 
> I've been running Sinfoni since before running Sinfoni was "cool"...


That last text made you sound like a hipster  But I already mentioned my favorite in this thread but what does any of that have to do with what you quoted me on? 

However one thing I have noticed over the years on forums like this one is how so many people change their favorites and groups will jump on and off "brandwagons" jumping from nutsack to nutsack. Years ago many was all over TRU and before that I think it was Macintosh or SD amps as they had a little spree amongst several members too and for a little while, for some reason Audiopipe and I never understood why really but whatever.
No doubt, come back here in a couple years and no one will be talking about Sinfoni, the new cool be something else guaranteed. It might be Brax or some class A tube amp..ya never know but likely it'll either be something that's really cheap for the output or it'll be really high end, shiny and posh but there does seem to be a cycle to these things.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> Also, while we have so many sinfoni fans in here.. do they normally run crazy hot?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


After a few hours of pushing an Amplitude 60.1 HD yesterday and today they do seem to get pretty damn hot. Worried me enough to move it to the read deck so the AC could blow on it. That kept it below 130* but without the vents blowing on it got to 156* and thats not playing the crap out of it, that was using maybe half its power ability and running at 4ohms.
I will say this though, the JL is was playing along side it couldnt hold a candle to it. Using the 75 watt JL with the 60 watt Sinfoni, there was no comparison. Zero hiss or background noise and just so much more refined and detailed in its sound signature..... just wow. I had held JL in such hi regard for so long but compared to Sinfoni and Mosconi they almost sound like a cheap low end amplifier.
Gonna hate sending the Sinfoni back to its owner.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> Also, while we have so many sinfoni fans in here.. do they normally run crazy hot?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk



Mine get hot but not crazy hot. You can touch them for a few seconds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

subterFUSE said:


> Mine get hot but not crazy hot. You can touch them for a few seconds.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I accidently leaned the back of my hand on the heatsink of the one catalyx loaned me and it actually hurt pretty bad

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

XSIV SPL said:


> I guess my question for you is as the OP presented... What's your favorite amplifier and why?
> 
> I've yet to meet someone who has experienced Sinfoni and has not at least added it to their list for consideration... It seems you are included
> 
> I've been running Sinfoni since before running Sinfoni was "cool"...


That last sentence does sound a bit hipster. LOL I aint poking fun though. I hadn't even heard of Sinfoni before until right before this summer and listened to Steve hype them. Well I took a chance and spent big boy money to try them out. I fell in love and me AND Steve hyped them to anyone who would listen and the people that gave in to a listen or even on faith have been buying Sinfoni have fallen in love and replaced many high end components in favor of them.
I never expected so many people to step up to the plate and just keep the hype rolling.
Is it really hype though if they are excellent in everything they make?

I have tried many of the "Hyped" speakers and decks people on here have gone gaga over. Some were pretty dang good and some were less than what I was expecting. The Mosconi and Sinfoni have been the only things I have bought (and the P99) that have FAR exceeded expectations.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

THey are not that hot running, for us 95F is hot for amp it`s nothing.
So is 150F. closer to 180 I`d be worried. 
Try running any mac without fans spinning, they will get hot quick.


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## rxonmymind (Sep 7, 2010)

LaserSVT said:


> After a few hours of pushing an Amplitude 60.1 HD yesterday and today they do seem to get pretty damn hot. Worried me enough to move it to the read deck so the AC could blow on it. That kept it below 130* but without the vents blowing on it got to 156* and thats not playing the crap out of it, that was using maybe half its power ability and running at 4ohms.
> I will say this though, the JL is was playing along side it couldnt hold a candle to it. Using the 75 watt JL with the 60 watt Sinfoni, there was no comparison. Zero hiss or background noise and just so much more refined and detailed in its sound signature..... just wow. I had held JL in such hi regard for so long but compared to Sinfoni and Mosconi they almost sound like a cheap low end amplifier.
> Gonna hate sending the Sinfoni back to its owner.


Hmm. I'm sort of ambivalent about JL. I don't known if it's the exceptional tuning or the amp itself but I notice a so very very faint hiss that interjects iteself into the music. Also to hear the amplifier "click" on cycle every minute is annoying. Sound almost like a switch of some sort. Granted this can only be heard if no music is playing, windows rolled up and can be eliminated by turning up the volume to level one but it certainly give you an idea of the noise floor of this amp. I know it's weird that I listen, really listen to amps but one can't help it when your reading a CD jacket cover in between music selection in silence.
So I hope to have the good fortune like you to try out different amps. Thinking about some Zapco 150.6 LX's(limited editions) that are class A/B Amps. Hopefully this amp (still undecided) will resolve those issues.


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## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> THey are not that hot running, for us 95F is hot for amp it`s nothing.
> So is 150F. closer to 180 I`d be worried.
> Try running any mac without fans spinning, they will get hot quick.


I an running mcc404, gets quite hot either fan running or not


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## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> I accidently leaned the back of my hand on the heatsink of the one catalyx loaned me and it actually hurt pretty bad


I wonder if the Sinfoni is acting a bit like class A by dropping more voltage across the transistors or if the cooling system just isn't very effective.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Catalyx said:


> I wonder if the Sinfoni is acting a bit like class A by dropping more voltage across the transistors or if the cooling system just isn't very effective.


checking the idle amp draw should indicate if the amp is putting out class A for sound quality purposes?

maybe contact Sinfoni and ask what the running temp, amp idle draw, and max temp while using should be?

They probably have some good information available that could set minds at ease...


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## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

Its manual says thermal protection will prevent the amp from exceeding 185°F so I think the Sinfoni just gets hotter to touch than is common. It is a heavy little beast with no fan so I imagine the guts are densely packed and pump a lot of thermal energy into the heatsink.

The idle current draw should be <1.2 A so you could test to be sure its behaving correctly.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

omnibus said:


> However one thing I have noticed over the years on forums like this one is how so many people change their favorites and groups will jump on and off "brandwagons" jumping from nutsack to nutsack.


I agree. It might be two , it might be 5 years, but there will always be a new brand pushing its marketing and power. 
Sometimes these two words "marketing" and "power" are synonymous 

Besides, every time I hear about amps sounding different, few people mention that tuning can make them sound more alike/nearly identical.
Things like different components in the amps make differences in the way they sound. The proof of this has already been tested and proven in a few Bob Carver tests.


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## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

omnibus said:


> No doubt, come back here in a couple years and no one will be talking about Sinfoni, the new cool be something else guaranteed. It might be Brax or some class A tube amp..ya never know but likely it'll either be something that's really cheap for the output or it'll be really high end, shiny and posh but there does seem to be a cycle to these things.


Not to sound hipster, but I've been lusting after Sinfoni since 2003 and they've always had a nice sexy/minimal web site so I'm surprised more people haven't heard of them.

Their new less expensive line should help with that and Steve seems to be their unofficial evangelist here so I imagine the forum will be riding that brandwagon for a while.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Got my first Sinfoni in 2005 I think... Amplitude 50.4 

Got my first Prestigio in 2007. Second one a year later  

IMO, they are too good to be used in a car lol 

I like Arc Audio SE, Brax MX and Sinfoni. Why? Because they have more power reserve than most other amps while sounding clean and more 3D like. Beauty is only a bonus 

If I had money to spare, I'd buy some of Victor's tube amp :thumbsup: 

Kelvin


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

subwoofery said:


> Got my first Sinfoni in 2005 I think... Amplitude 50.4
> 
> Got my first Prestigio in 2007. Second one a year later
> 
> ...


too good for a car makes perfect sense.


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## rxonmymind (Sep 7, 2010)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> I agree. It might be two , it might be 5 years, but there will always be a new brand pushing its marketing and power.
> Sometimes these two words "marketing" and "power" are synonymous
> 
> Besides, every time I hear about amps sounding different, few people mention that tuning can make them sound more alike/nearly identical.
> Things like different components in the amps make differences in the way they sound. The proof of this has already been tested and proven in a few Bob Carver tests.


Bob Carver? Jeeze I haven't heard that name in decades along with Musical Fidelity. Now your bringing back memories.


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## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

subwoofery said:


> Got my first Sinfoni in 2005 I think... Amplitude 50.4
> 
> Got my first Prestigio in 2007. Second one a year later
> 
> IMO, they are too good to be used in a car lol


I've had the same thought, which is part of why I'm saving a BNIB Amplitude 45.2 for a small setup in my apartment. Of course I'll also be using a Shadow 50.2 in my car but it'll be great to have a spacious and quiet environment to truly appreciate the sound quality.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

My new favorite amps are the ETON ECS. Looks awesome, good output and they are relatively cheap. Enough for me.

http://www.etongmbh.de/uploads/tx_pbproducts/ECS_500.4_03.jpg

Skickat från min SM-G900F via Tapatalk


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## peenemunde (Aug 31, 2013)

There's something about old school, inefficient, power hungry amplifiers that tickle me silly. Maybe they remind me of "the good ole days," maybe it's the fact that I love the character of a "hand-me-down." One can say that's the best because of X or this is better because of Y but in the end "favorite" is subjective. My favorite amplifier is the Soundstream DaVinci, not because it's the best or most accurate sounding amplifier. Not because someone else did a double-blind study on THD/signal-to-noise ratio then posted their findings on DIYMA. It's because I'm a Leonardo DaVinci fan and the Vitruvian Man is wicked awesome 

If I had copious amounts of cash to blow on car audio, I would buy that. Because I THINK IT'S COOL 

(one of those Reign amps too)


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## HK53sbr (Jun 15, 2014)

I think the ones I miss the most........my Kicker SI amps. Early 90's..........200si on the horns, 500si on the mid basses, 500si on the subs. Kick myself for getting rid of that gear.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Hanatsu said:


> My new favorite amps are the ETON ECS. Looks awesome, good output and they are relatively cheap. Enough for me.
> 
> http://www.etongmbh.de/uploads/tx_pbproducts/ECS_500.4_03.jpg
> 
> Skickat från min SM-G900F via Tapatalk


that actually looks pretty awesome. didnt know they made car amps


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

rxonmymind said:


> Bob Carver? Jeeze I haven't heard that name in decades along with Musical Fidelity. Now your bringing back memories.


If you read any amplifier thread on here there will be at least one person throw up the Carver test as the ultimate "proof" all amps sound the same. This is the second mention of him and his "test" in this thread alone. LOL


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> If you read any amplifier thread on here there will be at least one person throw up the Carver test as the ultimate "proof" all amps sound the same. This is the second mention of him and his "test" in this thread alone. LOL


well you do have to admit, spending a few hours to change an amp and hearing a difference is EXTREMELY unreliable


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## Catalyx (Oct 13, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> well you do have to admit, spending a few hours to change an amp and hearing a difference is EXTREMELY unreliable


^ this x10


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## Duncanbullet (Sep 19, 2013)

Im loving my Focal fp5.500 
It sounds so transparent. only cross overs are LPH and Full. Great for running a DSP with, but it gets so damn hot...


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

My all time favorite amps are the Nakamichi PA300 / PA400M from the mid 80s. If I am not using the Nakamichi amps McIntosh is my other choice. 3rd on my list is the Soundstream Tarantula amps from 5-6 years back.


>^..^<


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## w00tah (Feb 5, 2006)

If we are limiting to what we've owned, my favorite was either my Gen 3 pop-top 225HCCA or my Hifonics Centurion X.

But my favorite amplifiers ever are the Human Reign, Diamond D7102 and the Audison Thesis HV Venti.


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

my favorite will always be what i have


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