# Opinions on Revelation Audio



## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Not my market for sure but we will see. It's definitely going to be a "look at me" brand. You don't have to sell a ton of amps if the profit margin is huge I guess. 
I think Matt was doing some setting up for this with his amp testing. 

Revelation Audio offers the following models:

Madison (5 channel)

This is our smaller 5 channel amplifier. There's beauty in simplicity, and the Madison has already proven itself in the competition environment as a sweet, lush, powerful, and transparent amplifier.

- 2x 90 watt channels of Current Drive (ideal for wide band drivers) - OR - Voltage Drive (switchable).

- 2x 90 watt channels of (only) Voltage Drive for midbass.

- 1x 400 watt subwoofer channel.

- NO internal crossovers.

- NO Gain adjustment controls.

- 20.4" wide x 8.6" (plus connections) x 2.75" tall

- $3,000

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Apollo (5 channel)

A popular system configuration is a pair of wide-band drivers, a pair of midbass drivers, and sub(s). This amplifier was purpose built for this application, though will perform beautifully with conventional tweeters as well.

- A pair of 150 watt channels are optimized for wide-band drivers using Current Drive, which helps reduce distortion and extends the frequency range.

- A higher output pair of 210 watt Voltage Drive channels for power hungry midbass drivers. (Current Drive is not recommended for midbass).

- 700 watt @ 4 ohm subwoofer channel, which is a scaled version of the Monoblock, known for its legendary control and grip.

- NO internal crossovers

- 38.2" x 8.6" (plus connections) x 2.75"

- Approximately 38 lb (17.2kg)

- $5,000

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Glastonbury (2 channel)

Class A offers superb musicality and linearity at low listening levels as well as incredible accuracy at high output levels. We've eliminated the gain controls and crossovers for the most pure signal path.

- Current Mode -OR- Voltage Mode (switchable)

- Class A (up to 20 Watts @ 4 ohms)

- Class G (up to 150 Watts @ 4 ohms)

- Idle current is less than 8 amps

- Dual power supplies and a dual mono architecture ensure excellent staging

- No internal crossovers

- No gain controls

- 20.4" x 8.6" (plus connections) x 2.75"

- $3,000

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Aragon (2 channel)

With an appreciation for the historic no-holds-barred amplifiers, Gordon and I wanted to build a truly remarkable amplifier that exhibits all of the utopian approaches for circuitry. The Aragon is the next generation reference level amplifier for the music lover.

- NO preamp circuitry

- VERY high bias Class A at normal listening levels, transitioning to A/B as volume increases

- 120 watts per channel - effortless power and control

- Option to run in Current Mode

- Two completely independent channels, with their own power inlets, yielding crosstalk greater than 140dB

- Holoco resistors in feedback and other critical locations

- An unprecedented 360000uF per channel

- 38.2" x 8.6" (plus connections) x 2.75" tall

- $5,000

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Hammersmith (monoblock)

- Specifically built for subwoofers

- Extraordinary dynamics and control

- Class G

- 1,200 watts into 1-4 ohms

- 20.4" x 8.6" (plus connections) x 2.75"

- $3,000


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Heh, doesn't matter how good those amps might be. No one in their right mind will pay that much for an amplifier unless they just have tons of cash they won't miss.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

People spend $5000 on less power Sinfoni.


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

Price is one factor that would make them a hard sale, plus seeing the sizes on these would be a hindering point for a lot of people. I run class A/B for my active 3 way, but the size of it is definitely something that is a bit of a nuisance when it comes to having mounting options.


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

How can it be "lush" and "transparent"? It's like they were seeing how many audiophile words they could put into the sentence. 


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

I would like to know how they measured that 140db crosstalk.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

They are interesting ... but the price is going to be hard to swallow... your in Brax price territory - Brax being tried and tested and reputable all over the world 

$5k buys you lots - like a HV Venti (used) and a Thesis amp or nearly 3 MX Brax amps (used) amps don't wear out so buying used is a good way to make your $ go further 

Or a full decent system...

Just think the pricing is a bit out there to be honest... maybe at half the price it would be easier to swallow 

But let's see... I wish them the best - it may very well be worth the coin... who are we to judge without listening to them...



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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Knowing Matt and Gordon, theyre definitely not a fly by night brand. Theyre definitely here to stay. Some of you may have heard these amps without even knowing it. Matt and Gordon have been developing prototypes for a while. Just so happens to be that one of the cars that had em was my personal favorite sounding car at finals.

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edit: me saying they were in my favorite car at finals is no indication of how they sound. its just a statement.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> Knowing Matt and Gordon, theyre definitely not a fly by night brand. Theyre definitely here to stay. Some of you may have heard these amps without even knowing it. Matt and Gordon have been developing prototypes for a while. Just so happens to be that one of the cars that had em was my personal favorite sounding car at finals.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk




So what happened to all amps sound the same? You know there is a 3500+ post thread on here already....

So why do Gordon's amps sound different to Audiotec Fishers amps or Joe soaps amps? 

Rated power is rated power? Cap is a cap....



Fact remains $5k can buy you more power more power supplies and still remain in the highest tier of audio equipment available on the planet...

If you know how to shop that is....


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Do we really need one more super high end amplifier brand?..


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Elektra said:


> So what happened to all amps sound the same? You know there is a 3500+ post thread on here already....
> 
> So why do Gordon's amps sound different to Audiotec Fishers amps or Joe soaps amps?
> 
> ...


Find a post where I said they all sound the same that wasn't sarcasm.. I'll wait. I also never said anything about how these amps sound. If you interprited what I said as that, well then thats your problem. 

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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Ouch ouch ouch!

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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> Find a post where I said they all sound the same that wasn't sarcasm.. I'll wait. I also never said anything about how these amps sound. If you interprited what I said as that, well then thats your problem.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk




Didn't you just say " the best sounding car I heard was using these amps" or something to that effect... 

It sounds like to me that the amps made all the difference....

Don't get me wrong I totally believe that 2 amps don't sound the same - I think you can find 100's of posts which i said that... I also I am a minority here..

I don't recall you agreeing with that - only that your cheap Zapco amps sound just as good as anything else out there and that tuning was the only difference...

Something like that....

So yeah I think I did not not interpret much wrong...

I just love it when guys say something in one thread and totally say something else in a another... 




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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> Find a post where I said they all sound the same that wasn't sarcasm.. I'll wait. I also never said anything about how these amps sound. If you interprited what I said as that, well then thats your problem.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk




"Best sounding car at finals used these amps" .... sounds to me like your saying if Mike used another brand of amps his car would not sound the same or that good?

So where did I misinterpret your statement?

Also - I am pretty sure if I had the inclination to search 3500+ posts in " High end amps makes a difference" thread I am sure I could find a few when you used your sarcasm to belittle those who apposed the thought process of amps do sound different...

Something about your cheap Zapco studio amps sounding just as good as a Brax - only tuning makes a difference .... something along those lines? 

Anyrate who cares...


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Elektra said:


> Didn't you just say " the best sounding car I heard was using these amps" or something to that effect...
> 
> It sounds like to me that the amps made all the difference....
> 
> ...


Again, go find a post where I said they sound exactly the same. And saying that my favorite car at finals (no, not Mike's) used a prototype of these doesn't mean I'm commenting on how they sound. That's the problem with "audiophiles".. They for some reason assume you can tell how a single product sounds from listening to it in a whole system.. Silly.

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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> Again, go find a post where I said they sound exactly the same. And saying that my favorite car at finals (no, not Mike's) used a prototype of these doesn't mean I'm commenting on how they sound. That's the problem with "audiophiles".. They for some reason assume you can tell how a single product sounds from listening to it in a whole system.. Silly.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk




Again... who cares

This has been discussed to death on multiple threads...

It's like a merry go round....

I am just saying for the $ you can get more for your $ amps are not speakers they last for years if not decades without fail 

Buying demo or pre loved can save you a ton of cash and still remain in the perceived Tier one of all products...


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## el_bob-o (Nov 8, 2008)

As much as it sucks to have crappy hearing and to have my stereo sound different every time I get in my car (especially after working around loud machinery all day) at least I never have to worry about which amp sounds best.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Would it be possible to get a link to the Revelation Audio website or social media page? 
I wont be buying any $5K amps anytime soon, I just want to see a 38" long modern surfboard amp.
BTW, the msrp of those mentioned above make them a bargain beside a few Critical Mass amps I've seen.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

What is wrong with owning and using a $3-5000 amp if you want too/can afford too? 
The fact that YOU find it to be frivolous or ridiculous or stupid speaks to the type of person you are versus what Matt and Gordon are building. Revelation Audio is built upon decades of research and experience. This isn't a fly by night company that buys rebadged Chinese amps, these are well built amplifiers that have been tested, retested and then tested again. 
Do some research before passing judgment. 


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## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

Although the price is hard to swallow, I highly doubt these will disappoint. That big five channel looks mighty intriguing. 


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

chefhow said:


> This isn't a fly by night company


Stole the words right outta my post lol

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Well I do think it's an audiofool market. 
I think it's completely snake oil, sure is written like it. 

Do Matt and Gordon believe it's all bull? I'm sure they do not. 

But yeah you can't imply how amps sound in a car when they are only a piece of the puzzle. 
But I do believe he worded it to fluff you.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

aholland1198 said:


> Although the price is hard to swallow, I highly doubt these will disappoint. That big five channel looks mighty intriguing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll sign off on that.

I've known Matt for a while... I dunno... maybe been chatting with him for 10 years or so? Ever since he was kind enough to send me a cable for a mcintosh DAC. Matt's dedicated to this hobby and pursues the "sound" of components more than anyone I know (for better or worse, my friend, lol). 

What he's doing is making a niche product. I think it's ignorant to immediately blast it based on price alone. There's a lot of brands that charge a boatload of money for a product that can easily be rivaled for considerably less. In those cases I'm perfectly happy to make my disdain known. Then there are cases where a product costs 100% more for only a 10% improvement. But no one said performance vs cost was a linear scale. Revelation Audio has set a price point for each of their products and until people have them in hand and are able to provide (unbiased) reviews, we should chill on the "oh my god, that's stupid money and can't be worth it". "Worth" is a relative term. At least as long as the garbage isn't under-performing in relation to other products a fraction of its price. If the amps provide even a marginal benefit over other amps then you fall right back in to the 'value' spectrum. Some folks here are perfectly happy running Silver Flutes. Does that mean Scanspeak products are pointless? No.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

DC/Hertz said:


> Well I do think it's an audiofool market.
> 
> I think it's completely snake oil, sure is written like it.
> 
> ...




What do you drive?
Do you live in a house, apartment, townhouse...
What does your audio set up look like?


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

chefhow said:


> What do you drive?
> Do you live in a house, apartment, townhouse...
> What does your audio set up look like?
> 
> ...


I don't know what you are implying. 
If you are implying finances. Yes I've dumped $14000 into a build. Yes it was the biggest waste of money I've ever blown besides my wife's flooring(which I still say is her fault). 
If I known then what I know now it could have been done for 1/4 of the cost.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

ErinH said:


> I'll sign off on that.
> 
> I've known Matt for a while... I dunno... maybe been chatting with him for 10 years or so? Ever since he was kind enough to send me a cable for a mcintosh DAC. Matt's dedicated to this hobby and pursues the "sound" of components more than anyone I know (for better or worse, my friend, lol).
> 
> What he's doing is making a niche product. I think it's ignorant to immediately blast it based on price alone. There's a lot of brands that charge a boatload of money for a product that can easily be rivaled for considerably less. In those cases I'm perfectly happy to make my disdain known. Then there are cases where a product costs 100% more for only a 10% improvement. But no one said performance vs cost was a linear scale. Revelation Audio has set a price point for each of their products and until people have them in hand and are able to provide (unbiased) reviews, we should chill on the "oh my god, that's stupid money and can't be worth it". "Worth" is a relative term. At least as long as the garbage isn't under-performing in relation to other products a fraction of its price. If the amps provide even a marginal benefit over other amps then you fall right back in to the 'value' spectrum. Some folks here are perfectly happy running Silver Flutes. Does that mean Scanspeak products are pointless? No.


I don't think any review of a product of this price point does not have bias. 
It's two ways. 
Either you hear dollar signs or you want to prove it's not worth it.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

DC/Hertz said:


> I don't think any review of a product of this price point does not have bias.
> It's two ways.
> Either you hear dollar signs or you want to prove it's not worth it.



Then the same can be said for anything then. Cheap stuff... "sounds great" because the listener wanted a good deal. You because you have Hertz and DC in your screenname. 

Guess that makes your entire thread pointless.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

DC/Hertz said:


> I don't know what you are implying.
> 
> If you are implying finances. Yes I've dumped $14000 into a build. Yes it was the biggest waste of money I've ever blown besides my wife's flooring(which I still say is her fault).
> 
> If I known then what I know now it could have been done for 1/4 of the cost.




Answer my questions and you will see why I am asking.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

ErinH said:


> Then the same can be said for anything then. Cheap stuff... "sounds great" because the listener wanted a good deal. You because you have Hertz and DC in your screenname.
> 
> Guess that makes your entire thread pointless.


It makes it all pointless.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

chefhow said:


> Answer my questions and you will see why I am asking.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok
14 Ford Fusion titanium, 13 Toyota RAV4 limited
Own one house just sold a condo last week
Current setup is in sig


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

DC/Hertz said:


> It makes it all pointless.


Guess I'll close the thread then.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I think we need to take a step back here and think about this for a second guys before we try to pass internet judgement on a brand and product.

First, these products are still in early production with VERY few models in the hands of owners. In fact most of the units out there currently are prototypes and not production run units. So I don't think any useful comments can even be made as to the performance of these pieces yet.

Second, Gordon has been an outstanding amplifier designer and builder for a LONG time and has produced many excellent amplifiers over his career. The work I've seen of his has been very clean, well laid out and performs well. Erin already laid out the reasons why Matt is a great fit for this company and his support of the industry and in our audio community and his drive for excellent auto sound. So I don't think there is anything negative to be seen from the company and people producing these amplifiers.

Third- As it has been said, cost is relative. There has been talk about wild profit margins and high pricing. I think it is important to understand that this is a new company in its infancy trying to produce a very high quality product with top level design and components and high quality materials and finishes. That is not "cheap" to do on a small scale and I'm sure it will be a long time before Revelation Audio can even start turning profits after all the initial investment that surely had to go into this. It's a little surprising that we're gawking at pricing (retail price btw) when there is no idea about what these cost to produce and any profit margin. Even if that was a known quantity, a company can charge what they wish and consumers can decide for themselves where the value is. There are plenty of high end amplifier manufacturers like Brax, Sinfoni, Celestra, etc who charge high pricetags...and also deliver an excellent product for said price.

I for one am very excited to see what these gentleman are able to produce and look forward to the opportunity to see and hear the finished product.

As a side bar, I think there are a lot of factors that go into "value" for a product and what we may consider worth the price of entry. I certainly appreciate an excellent performing design, but I also value clean, well thought out layout and high quality parts that add to the durability and lifespan of the product. High quality finishes and aesthetics are also valuable to me in a purchase of this kind. In addition, support of the product and value after the sale is certainly a factor and I would feel very comfortable trusting these gentleman with my hard earned cash.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

captainobvious said:


> I think we need to take a step back here and think about this for a second guys before we try to pass internet judgement on a brand and product.
> 
> First, these products are still in early production with VERY few models in the hands of owners. In fact most of the units out there currently are prototypes and not production run units. So I don't think any useful comments can even be made as to the performance of these pieces yet.
> 
> ...


I value that opinion. 
We all have that cut off point. We all get what we like without worrying about the cost. 
But I do feel his test where a setup to get those folk on the fence.


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## truckguy (Sep 2, 2013)

It was great listening to Matt on an Sqology podcast a while back. If you haven't listened to it yet it's definitely worth the time. Same can be said Erin's interview as well. I wish Matt and Gordon the best with their new company. Maybe down the road they'll have more options in different price ranges and etc.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

If there is one thing I've learnt on this sound quality adventure. Sound quality does not have a price point. When you start trying to put one on it you will never be satisfied.


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

Speaking of support for the product and value after the sale, After some of the dealings I have been through, some companies act like they could care less after the sale where as others bend over backwards for you. And the ironic part is the equipment which I paid more for was some of the hardest to get issues resolved where as the cheaper was the easiest and some of the best support yet.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

DC/Hertz said:


> But I do feel his test where a setup to get those folk on the fence.



Gotta love a good conspiracy theory. 

If you read anything about those amp tests you would know that he was one of 10 participants, and most of them had no affiliation or participation in car audio. 

If you think they are selling snake oil though, why bother following their Facebook page?


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I have no shame in saying that I'm not "feeling" the price because I'm a bang for the buck guy that has his own set of goals in a VERY modest daily driver system. But more power to anyone who can afford these amps and cleanly fit them into their install. And yes "expensive" is a relative term. $600 for an amp is expensive for me while to others that's merely pocket change. 

One thing I truly hope is that the people who buy these amps or any other uber high end piece of equipment don't put themselves into a financial bind. This is where my comment about people not being in their right mind comes from. It's my opinion that car audio shouldn't put anyone into credit card debt or any kind of debt for that matter. No hobby should. If it does it's your own fault.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

pocket5s said:


> Gotta love a good conspiracy theory.
> 
> If you read anything about those amp tests you would know that he was one of 10 participants, and most of them had no affiliation or participation in car audio.
> 
> ...


I follow many pages. I try to stay up to speed with everything. That way I can make the best decisions I'm capable off. 
Does that answer your question?


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Pictures/links of products please! (Just curious, that's all) thanks


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

pocket5s said:


> Gotta love a good conspiracy theory.
> 
> If you read anything about those amp tests you would know that he was one of 10 participants, and most of them had no affiliation or participation in car audio.
> 
> ...


Actually I think there was 14. And they don't have a page as far as I know.. They have a secret group, and frankly I have no fuggin clue how Derek here got an invite lol

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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I was corrected. They had 20 in the first amp test. Just a little off 


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm with Erin and Captain on this one. 


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> Actually I think there was 14. And they don't have a page as far as I know.. They have a secret group, and frankly I have no fuggin clue how Derek here got an invite lol
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


Is there some issue you have with me getting into that group? Do I not have the same rights as you? 
Don't turn into a little prick. I've been trying to be nice to you.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

DC/Hertz said:


> I don't know what you are implying.
> If you are implying finances. Yes I've dumped $14000 into a build. Yes it was the biggest waste of money I've ever blown besides my wife's flooring(which I still say is her fault).
> If I known then what I know now it could have been done for 1/4 of the cost.


sounds to me like you blew $14k and was disappointed because you didn't know what you where doing, perhaps, you had mis matched gear, didn't know how to install it or calibrate it, dunno. however, since you know much more now as you stated/claim above maybe if you installed that same $14k system it would blow you away.

don't make it sound like people are foolish for spending X amount of money because you think/claim you could do it better for 1/4 the price


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## SHAGGS (Apr 24, 2011)

A Rolls Royce Ghost starts at 250K, a new Corolla starts just under 20K. 
Both have well preforming engines, radios and nicely appointed interiors. 
Both will get you back and forth to work.
The difference is in the engineering, build quality and quality of internals.
Is anyone who buys a RR instead of a Corolla a fool easily parted from their money?


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

SHAGGS said:


> A Rolls Royce Ghost starts at 250K, a new Corolla starts just under 20K.
> Both have well preforming engines, radios and nicely appointed interiors.
> Both will get you back and forth to work.
> The difference is in the engineering, build quality and quality of internals.
> Is anyone who buys a RR instead of a Corolla a fool easily parted from their money?


Depends on where that RR falls in their priorities. And what if anything they have to sacrifice to get the RR.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

captainobvious said:


> I think we need to take a step back here and think about this for a second guys before we try to pass internet judgement on a brand and product.
> 
> First, these products are still in early production with VERY few models in the hands of owners. In fact most of the units out there currently are prototypes and not production run units. So I don't think any useful comments can even be made as to the performance of these pieces yet.
> 
> ...




This was my point in the other thread when guys were shooting down a $4500 Brax amp and that a $400 amp sounded the same...

I was virtually man alone.....

You know that there will be a majority here that will say double blind test and see if you can hear a difference...

Me personally - an amp isn't just an amp there is merit to good design and components a $10 cap isn't the same as a 1c cap 

This is pretty much why you hardly ever see a manufacturer defend his product in these types of discussions as he sees no point picking fights with guys who bought expensive products that shared the same boards as much cheaper products and felt duped by marketing - rather than researching the product correctly before buying it...

I have no doubt these Revelation products won't be anything but tier one products - as for the price well let's see.... $3000 for a average powered 5 channel and $5000 for above average powered 2 channel that runs different classes at certain power ranges is nothing new to the industry ... all the Audison Thesis amps do that with much more raw power which can be had for half the retail and for a pittance used...

Me personally I would like to see a 5 channel with say 4x200 1x1000 at 4ohms with a high class A bias for $3k and for $5k a 2 channel say 2x400 and at least 100rms per channel Class A or very high biased dual mono separate power and earth inputs etc... emphasis on high end caps and opamps etc to go with the price tag...


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Doublepost...

/Feathers unruffled & panties unbunched, LOL.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

bbfoto said:


> Guys, c'mon! At this point your just effing babbling back and forth WAY off topic and mucking up what could have been a very enlightening and useful thread. So _Jesus Christo_, please take it to PMs or start an Off Topic thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think we have said everything that needs to be said...

Price it's a premium compared to other known brands - nobody has really had a lot of experience with the product - how it stacks up to known top products similar or less in price only time will tell...

How's that...?

On a side note - considering how well the other threads have turned out - I don't see how this will end up any different....

But because it's known parties involved I suspect the posts will be more forgiving which is actually insulting to the best amp designers in the world who have been doing this for decades and win all the awards their products gets the highest acclaim all over the world but because guys here can't place a face to the product - it gets flamed 

How many of you have flamed the Brax MX series amps which is the ONLY amp to get 50/50 for SQ internationally - regardless of who is judging it - but are very sympathetic to this brand because Matt and Gordon are "friends" or known in the industry 

All we ask is consistency regardless of who's name is behind the product.... 

If it's superior to the Brax then well done to Matt and Gordon! 


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Oh. My. God.

You guys have to stop going SO DAMN OT all the time. It's maddening. Warnings have been sent to repeat offenders and will lead to bans if it doesn't end. Enough is enough. I don't mind a little straying now and again but to turn an amp thread in to "which car should I buy" and/or your latest pissing match thread is ridiculous. If it's not pertinent to the thread then stop typing and close out the thread. Or take it to a new post. Just stop dumping in every other decent thread. Please.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

bbfoto said:


> Guys, c'mon! At this point your just effing babbling back and forth WAY off topic and mucking up what could have been a very enlightening and useful thread. So Jesus Christo, please take it to PMs or start an Off Topic thread.
> 
> I came here expecting to find some details and worthwhile discussion about the upcoming Revelation Audio products, but arrived to a classroom of unruley ADHD kindergartners. FFS, do you think that Matt or Gordon would want to come here and share any more info with us now? Why would they and why should they?! Goddammit, WTF is happening to DIYMA!?!? (Please don't answer that!)
> 
> I'm not attacking anyone personally, but it's just become a DIYMA circus of monkeys and clowns in just about every other thread these days. If you can't contribute something useful, informative, or insightful to the topic at hand, and be civil about it, without the he said/she said BS, just STFU and keep it to yourself. We're lucky that any of the industry/product guys bother to chime in at all. Don't drive them away.


Can this be a sticky?
Or perhaps this should be the board's auto reply after a thread reaches 2 pages, because it applies to about 90% of those threads. 

I know some in the manufacturer community that will not come here and discuss anything because it is pointless for them to do so. A few do come and will answer direct questions about a product and that's great they take the time do so. 

There is a lot of knowledge out there in SQ land that have been driven away for many of the reasons above. Shame because it is a small community overall. I know a few that lurk to get a good chuckle once in a while, and some that don't even bother with that.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Hey now. We don't need OT posts about OT posts. 


Back to your regularly scheduled topic...


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

So, who's gonna give these amps a try? I bet they really are nice. I would assume that anyone who drops the massive coin would also have a really clean (possibly professionally done) install for them too and have some of the best speakers money can buy. I can't picture them in a simple daily driver setup. I picture seeing them more in purpose built sq cars where price was no object. Those cars that you see in the ultra extreme classes.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> So, who's gonna give these amps a try? I bet they really are nice. I would assume that anyone who drops the massive coin would also have a really clean (possibly professionally done) install for them too and have some of the best speakers money can buy. I can't picture them in a simple daily driver setup. I picture seeing them more in purpose built sq cars where price was no object. Those cars that you see in the ultra extreme classes.


Yeah the cars that will sound great no matter what they are using. 
That's one issue with demoing them. You are hearing the total package. That's the issue with demoing anything and everything.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

diy.phil said:


> Pictures/links of products please! (Just curious, that's all) thanks


He posted this a few days ago. It's 1/2 of the dual mono. 
Aragon. 

Judging by the number of caps it should have no issue with dynamic headroom.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

DC/Hertz said:


> Yeah the cars that will sound great no matter what they are using.
> That's one issue with demoing them. You are hearing the total package. That's the issue with demoing anything and everything.


Yeah, how the finished product sounds is what matters most. I have other thoughts about the eyes, brain, and high end gear but won't go into that in this thread


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

A few cars have been using prototypes of a couple of the amps, just in different chassis (as that only got finalized recently). I think Matt has had prototypes for over a year in his car. 

And believe it or not, his car is his daily driver, so not a purpose built demo vehicle.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

pocket5s said:


> And it goes of topic yet again...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry

So who's gonna be buying these amps for next years comp season?


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

OK, so back on topic, does anyone know what is the difference between "Current Drive" and "Voltage Drive" on the 5 channel Madison amp?? And why it is switchable ??


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

As I understand it, current drive changes its output based on the impedance of the driver. It is designed primarily for wideband speakers, and most speakers have an impedance rise as the frequency goes up, so more power gets applied. 

You'd switch it off for regular tweeters (which most likely couldn't handle the extra output). Same kind of reason for not using it on speakers like midbass which tend to be used down near their resonance frequency, which has a big impedance spike. 


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

I wish new brands all the luck..but some of that audiofoolery wording puts me off, not that I could ever afford these anyways though lol. would I love to listen to them? yes. would I probably like the look of them? I'm a fan of bigger is better, so yes. I just wish it wasn't so obvious who there marketing too, because for some of us, we'd appreciate these a lot more from an engineering standpoint if we knew a bit of what was so special..no secrets obviously, just "we did x because its awesome..

I would like to know what voltage vs current modes are..its all variable voltage vs resistance isn't it?


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

High current is what the Brazilian amps do. They deal with rise way better then high voltage outputs. Full bridge topology.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

DC/Hertz said:


> I value that opinion.
> We all have that cut off point. We all get what we like without worrying about the cost.
> But I do feel his test where a setup to get those folk on the fence.



To be fair, I read those reviews as well. It's important to note that Matt turned down any further reviewing including some tests he had planned since he knew he was going to pursue manufacturing amps to avoid any conflicts and retain the transparency and validity of his evaluation sessions.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

After looking at the RCA test I'm in some lower plane of existence. I guess that's why I can't appreciate it. I love beauty. But beauty doesn't affect my ears.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

DIYMA is so bizarre - here we are 70 posts in and not one person has mentioned "double blind test" "a watt is a watt" "no different to a cheap amp of the same power"

Now go to - Higher end amps are a myth - thread and out of the 3500 posts at least 2000 posts are saying that....

So why is this? Because you guys know Matt and Gordon so if they build a 2x140 amp for $5000 it's acceptable and it must be good? 

Therefore an amp isn't a amp and therefore "higher end amps are indeed NOT a myth"?

So will a Lightning Audio amp that pushes the same power - clean - sound the same as one of these amps at 12 times less cost? 

Just saying....


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> So, who's gonna give these amps a try? I bet they really are nice. I would assume that anyone who drops the massive coin would also have a really clean (possibly professionally done) install for them too and have some of the best speakers money can buy. I can't picture them in a simple daily driver setup. I picture seeing them more in purpose built sq cars where price was no object. Those cars that you see in the ultra extreme classes.


Likely the same target market who runs amps like Sinfoni, Brax, Celestra, Tru, etc. Also perhaps some of the users of Genesis amplifiers who like what Gordon has designed and produced in the past.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Elektra said:


> DIYMA is so bizarre - here we are 70 posts in and not one person has mentioned "double blind test" "a watt is a watt" "no different to a cheap amp of the same power"
> 
> Now go to - Higher end amps are a myth - thread and out of the 3500 posts at least 2000 posts are saying that....
> 
> ...


A clean watt is a clean watt


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

The Aragon amp looks pretty crazy. Class A with more capacitance than a damn SPL amp. Definitely looking forward to seeing some pics of production cases and boards.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

captainobvious said:


> The Aragon amp looks pretty crazy. Class A with more capacitance than a damn SPL amp. Definitely looking forward to seeing some pics of production cases and boards.




Just curious - if a amp had a cap input aka Brax and Audison would one get away with less caps on the board? If one were to use a cap with it?


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

I didn't mind spending $1500 on a 7k and another $1500 in electrical to power it. Then another $1500 in a front stage to be listenable with that output then another $1500 in amps for that. 
But that's what you have to do to chase numbers with a daily driver. 
I just don't see the need for it with lower volume listening. At least lower from that. 
I don't know about y'all but I don't push my equipment to its breaking point. I don't run my voltage down to 9v. I'm not wiring the mono to .25ohm to see what happens. It's just not needed.

Standing by to get flagged because this post is off topic. I guess everyone should be banned for going off topic. There will be nothing but one answer threads and nobody will talk.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

That is one massive class A amplifier for the car audio environment. I assume these will be made on a as-ordered basis? At those price points I don't see a lot of stock being kept on hand. If nothing else they seem like a brilliant exercise in engineering. Reminds me of the very high end Precision Power 2500 F1 from back in the day. Shoot for the moon kind of approach.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

PPI_GUY said:


> That is one massive class A amplifier for the car audio environment. I assume these will be made on a as-ordered basis? At those price points I don't see a lot of stock being kept on hand. If nothing else they seem like a brilliant exercise in engineering. Reminds me of the very high end Precision Power 2500 F1 from back in the day. Shoot for the moon kind of approach.


But isn't class A really just A bias A/B? If it goes to A/B at that low of power isn't really making a difference?


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

PPI_GUY said:


> That is one massive class A amplifier for the car audio environment. I assume these will be made on a as-ordered basis? At those price points I don't see a lot of stock being kept on hand. If nothing else they seem like a brilliant exercise in engineering. Reminds me of the very high end Precision Power 2500 F1 from back in the day. Shoot for the moon kind of approach.




Looking at the specs - it's worth noting high bias settings so presumably this amp will run hot..

Also 20rms in Class A is really only sufficient for tweeters albeit very high sensitivity speakers which excludes the likes of anything Morel and Dynaudio offer

So possibly nice for some Scans at 94db sensitivity?

Also worth noting that Class A is loosely used in car audio as there isn't really a proper Class A amp or at least one that I know of at least 

One feels the Class A bias ability of this amp is really a non feature due to it being so low in power 

Once again - Audison Thesis Due runs 80rms per channel in Class A and runs 300 per channel in normal power mode so this is more useful if Class A bias is what you want... also I think the $2100 retail on the Due is more palatable than $5k with significantly less power

From a birds eye view - the amps look very nice lots of caps etc -but from a spec point of view nothing really jumps out at me saying I should drop $5k on it considering other offerings at similar price or slightly lower price point 

I would say a Brax MX2 having nearly 4 times the power at slightly lower price seems a wiser choice? 

But that's just my observation... 


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## el_bob-o (Nov 8, 2008)

It's only a 30wpc 2 channel but Celestra makes a class A, non switching amp.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

el_bob-o said:


> It's only a 30wpc 2 channel but Celestra makes a class A, non switching amp.




Still very low power output to make it worthwhile 



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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Maybe it's just me. I've become a firm believer in power. As long as I can't hear distortion then give it to me. 
If my speakers disappear then I can't hear it. Keep it coming. Every year someone gets more power in a smaller chassis.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

DC/Hertz said:


> Maybe it's just me. I've become a firm believer in power. As long as I can't hear distortion then give it to me.
> 
> If my speakers disappear then I can't hear it. Keep it coming. Every year someone gets more power in a smaller chassis.




Well yes - power is always your friend even if you don't use all of it... 


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2017)

You can spend $5000 on a burger on the LV strip. And it's gone in 10 minutes. These amps will still be making sweet music in 10 or even 20 years. We can be sure of that as all the components will be unstressed and working at only a small percentage of their ratings, thus ensuring long service life.
The design, componentry and build will be top class based on 30 years experience of designing and also from the experience of repairing product with various design bugs. 
These aren't mainstream but they will be exceptionally well built and at the top of Tier 1 in sound quality. 
They will also be hand built in small numbers. That's a much more expensive process, but allows us to select and match critical componentry.
Is there a need for another top end manufacturer. Do we need Pagani when Lamborghini makes very fast cars. I think the world is a better place when there's choice, even at the top 0.1% of the market.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> You can spend $5000 on a burger on the LV strip. And it's gone in 10 minutes. These amps will still be making sweet music in 10 or even 20 years. We can be sure of that as all the components will be unstressed and working at only a small percentage of their ratings, thus ensuring long service life.
> 
> The design, componentry and build will be top class based on 30 years experience of designing and also from the experience of repairing product with various design bugs.
> 
> ...




Gordon - as you know or have read the last few threads on amps sounding different to each other..

Can you give us your professional opinion on this topic - I would assume the reason for paying $5k on one of your amps isn't because they are well built and can last 20 years? 

If that was the case then surely buying a $500 amp and replacing it every 5 - 10 years is ultimately cheaper if it's a case of reliability 

There must be a sonic improvement to warrant the addition $'s 

Today there isn't really a "bad" amp they all make rated power (ok not the very cheap ones from China) 

Most of them share a generic board layout which the manufacturer adds to it to meet there own marketing strategy - Ground Zero case in point amongst others 

They all relatively decent and components not half bad - so why spend $5k on a amp? 

You mentioned Pagani - it's a mastery of design and use of components totally hand built and takes forever to make one - you can't use that analogy to a car amp...

The burger well - even if I won the lottery I don't think I'll spend $5k on a burger ... lol


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2017)

We are designing and will be building amps where we don't have to compromise on the areas that give that last 5% of SQ.
For example we can use bulk foil resistors in the feedback and input circuits, where they make the most difference. 
The Rail Cap bank on the Aragon is way bigger than anything I've seen on other amplifiers at something like 0.18F per rail. With the input caps it's over 1/2 a farad per channel. That gives the rails total stability and there's a massive reserve for the outputs to call on.
These are all techniques applied in top end Home audio, we are bringing them to car audio. The secondary effect is that the components are unstressed, giving a long life.

What we won't have is a bunch of branded polypropylene caps and shiny transformer covers dotted about a generic Tier 2 or 3 amp because the boys in the marketing department thought they would look good. 
Those generic amps have countless layout mistakes, the howler being putting the preamp circuitry next to the power supply.
I think the Pagani analogy fits well, these will be hand built to order, one at a time. Maybe Morgan fits better given the British designed electronics and not so crazy price tag.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> We are designing and will be building amps where we don't have to compromise on the areas that give that last 5% of SQ.
> 
> For example we can use bulk foil resistors in the feedback and input circuits, where they make the most difference.
> 
> ...




Fair enough - thanks for your honest reply.

I don't know enough about amp building to know which amps have design mistakes - one assumes that as the price tag creeps up the attention to little detail goes up as it's expected in a high end no compromise product - especially one that is not a generic off the shelf design bastardized into different brands....


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Basically he saying they will supply power longer. 
Just get a bigger amp to begin with. 

I wish the Tier word would go away. Where any amp falls is dependent on the user.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

1. Most of you are not seeing a bigger picture. Car audio OUTSIDE of the US isnt a bang for your buck, race to zero business. There are other places in the world that spend money on audio and do it freely. Unlike CHEAP Americans(I am one of them to a point) where its all about how little can I spend and how much can I get they appreciate a well built, high quality no holds barred piece of electronic equipment.

2. Why do any of you care how the hell I(or anyone for that matter) spends their money, its not yours, shut the hell up, let people do what they want and keep your opinions about how they spend their money which they work for to yourselves.
This place is turning into the Real Housewives of DiYMA instead of a place where people can share ideas without getting slammed for not subscribing to other points of view. You all are acting like fools.....


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Im pretty sure that Gordon Taylor and Matt Hall know exactly what they do, and how to make hi-end amp,...
Nobody doubt of Genesis amps quality, and this amps should be above Genesis in terms of SQ. 
Mike used many amps from Genesis, Mosconi a class, Brax MX4, Milber,....so Im pretty sure he choosed the best sounding among them......



he choose them because all amps s
ounds the same, lol


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> We are designing and will be building amps where we don't have to compromise on the areas that give that last 5% of SQ.
> For example we can use bulk foil resistors in the feedback and input circuits, where they make the most difference.
> The Rail Cap bank on the Aragon is way bigger than anything I've seen on other amplifiers at something like 0.18F per rail. With the input caps it's over 1/2 a farad per channel. That gives the rails total stability and there's a massive reserve for the outputs to call on.
> These are all techniques applied in top end Home audio, we are bringing them to car audio. The secondary effect is that the components are unstressed, giving a long life.
> ...



Gordon, thanks for taking the time to join the community here and provide some info on these amplifiers. I look forward to hearing more as you guys progress and work toward getting production models out there in people's hands. 

Cheers


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

this is a diy website full of cheapasses.

or, rather, a website full of people trying to stretch their buck.

thrifty? is that a better word?

regardless - this isn't the market the manufacturers are designing for.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

DC/Hertz said:


> Basically he saying they will supply power longer.
> Just get a bigger amp to begin with.
> 
> I wish the Tier word would go away. Where any amp falls is dependent on the user.



Cliff Notes failure.

That is not at all what he said.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

benny z said:


> this is a diy website full of cheapasses.
> 
> or, rather, a website full of people trying to stretch their buck.
> 
> ...



We are so far removed from the original intent of this site that there will NEVER be any resemblance EVER again.


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## SPLEclipse (Aug 17, 2012)

benny z said:


> this is a diy website full of cheapasses.
> 
> or, rather, a website full of people trying to stretch their buck.
> 
> ...


This was true of this site 8-10 years ago. Not so much anymore. Still love this forum, it's just evolved a bit.

And to stay relevant to the subject matter: It's easy to defend people who you respect when they come out with a product like this, but remember that businesses are started to make money, and solid marketing is the best way to do this. Take from that what you'd like.


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2017)

You'd expect the design expertise and build quality would rise with price, however it isn't a linear correlation.
Some amp brands 'badge' designs from Eastern build houses. These tend to be filled with irrelevant big brand components, usually Mundorf capacitors and Burr Brown chips. And the PCB layout guys go for nice symmetrical looking boards but don't know to keep the preamp and power supply separated by as much distance as possible. Or which drive circuits give the best SQ.
Others are designed by engineers who have never been outside of the lab. Technically competent designs but one brand in particular sounds dead and flat due to a preamp full of 10 cent preamp chips. 
They measure as well as the expensive parts so no reason to use them as they don't improve the spec sheet. 
These are both high ticket amplifier brands with products above $2000.

There are also some very well designed products in this sector which we look forward to competing with.

What we will be designing are amplifiers with excellent sonics, well laid out boards and top grade selected components.
There are people who will appreciate the difference and pay the extra. 
To most folks these will be irrelevant and if compared on a $/watt basis seem overpriced.

I've already designed Mass Market amps (Genesis) with excellent sonics, Revelation is about making the best car audio amplifiers we can. Period.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> You'd expect the design expertise and build quality would rise with price, however it isn't a linear correlation.
> Some amp brands 'badge' designs from Eastern build houses. These tend to be filled with irrelevant big brand components, usually Mundorf capacitors and Burr Brown chips. And the PCB layout guys go for nice symmetrical looking boards but don't know to keep the preamp and power supply separated by as much distance as possible. Or which drive circuits give the best SQ.
> Others are designed by engineers who have never been outside of the lab. Technically competent designs but one brand in particular sounds dead and flat due to a preamp full of 10 cent preamp chips.
> They measure as well as the expensive parts so no reason to use them as they don't improve the spec sheet.
> ...


I will probably never be able to afford your new amps, but I just wanted to thank you for the Genesis amps I have run and loved for the past 10 years. Good luck with the new line.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I've been following the Revelation progress and had more than a few chats with Matt on the subject as far back or even before his high-end amp shootout recently. Every conversation I have with Matt, I learn something, and gain an appreciation for high-end and what separates true high-fidelity gear from mediocre gear. I can tell the passion and knowledge Matt has, and Gordon's equal passion and expertise, are a perfect synergy to build the finest designs available for 12v application, period. I suspect these amps will be beyond the point of diminishing returns for a lot of folks, and that's ok. I do think it is exciting though that there's a new "best of the best of the best" brand coming with a "no-holds-barred" approach for going as far as robust amp design can go. I for one can't wait to get into Mike's VW again and take a listen, among others depending on what Matt's got going on in his Merc.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> You'd expect the design expertise and build quality would rise with price, however it isn't a linear correlation.
> Some amp brands 'badge' designs from Eastern build houses. These tend to be filled with irrelevant big brand components, usually Mundorf capacitors and Burr Brown chips. And the PCB layout guys go for nice symmetrical looking boards but don't know to keep the preamp and power supply separated by as much distance as possible. Or which drive circuits give the best SQ.
> Others are designed by engineers who have never been outside of the lab. Technically competent designs but one brand in particular sounds dead and flat due to a preamp full of 10 cent preamp chips.
> They measure as well as the expensive parts so no reason to use them as they don't improve the spec sheet.
> These are both high ticket amplifier brands with products above $2000.



not sayi this is the brand you refer to..but maybe this is why I don't like the sound of zapco zlx much..lol..


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm completely content in my sonic ignorance. What I don't know I'm missing will never both me. 
The goal it to make the environment disappear. That doesn't have a price tag. 
No amplifier is going to magically make that happen no matter how much the caps cost.


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

I have no experience with the amps the builders have made in the past, and for the most part never will. But considering he stated himself that his amps will probably cater to to a very small part of the market, it offers choice like he said. If someone wants to purchase the amp and rave about sonic differences and it sounds better, then by all means do so. If someone wants to call them a lunatic for making such proclamations, then that is a choice also. No one's opinion is greater than another in this hobby because it boils down to individual preference. 

And no one can tell a person what to spend and how much, plain and simple. If you want to fork out thousands for an amp,if it makes the person happy, who the hell am I to judge? If another person wants to spend a couple hundred, does it make their system any less in quality considering most would agree it comes down to the tuning and how it is applied to the individual's taste? 

Bottom line is I am happy something like this will be offered even if it is way out of my price range. If new technologies or standards are used in the application of the amps, then as time progresses, these standards may become more mainstream in across the industry. Innovation is what drives technology after all.....


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

chefhow said:


> Again, WHY DO YOU CARE HOW PEOPLE SPEND THEIR MONEY???
> Why does it seem to bother you so much?
> You are passing judgement on pieces of equipment and the people who are buying them with no knowledge of what they can do and who is buying them.
> Walk away and leave it alone or are you one of the Housewives of DiYMA that likes to stir the pot and start **** for no reason?


its like talking to a brick wall, there are a lot of guys on here that try to discredit what one spends etc claiming they can do the same for a fraction of the cost, blah blah. its called envy IMO but to each there own, i spend my money how i want and believe in what i spend it on

whats irritating is when they are spreading it as fact and some folks fall for it

is there a website on these amps, i couldn't find one


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

Well looks like some moderation took place from the moderators as I remember this thread being on the 5th page....


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

sq2k1 said:


> Well looks like some moderation took place from the moderators as I remember this thread being on the 5th page....


Damn, I slept through it and missed it


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

Oh you missed it alright.... the constructive nature of the discussion was so appealing and overwhelming the moderators deemed it too much for the average person to handle..... :jester:


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

sq2k1 said:


> Oh you missed it alright.... the constructive nature of the discussion was so appealing and overwhelming the moderators deemed it too much for the average person to handle..... :jester:


 Constructive discussion on product that doesn`t exist is strange, don`t you think?


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Victor_inox said:


> Constructive discussion on product that doesn`t exist is strange, don`t you think?


He said "nature" (not "discussion"), which the pissing match this turned in to last night was not. I'll backfill quickly here so people understand wtf is going on in this thread and afterwards I ask we get back on track...

On Sunday I deleted over 40 (forty) posts discussing severely OT crap like which car someone wanted to buy. Then yesterday it appeared to be spiraling out again with pissing matches. I was home. I didn't see the rest. Another mod did cleanup. 

A few OT posts here and there isn't an issue. Even posts that are in some way relative to the topic is fine. It's when people turn a thread into their own life discussion panel or pissing match that goes on and on that is the issue. And typically that happens from a single OT post and people jump on it and ride off in to the sunset. And it's usually the same people (who know who they are). Take that stuff somewhere else. 

Members are complaining. A few complained in this very thread. 

For more reading, see this thread:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...sion/251825-psa-off-topic-trolling-posts.html


Let's get this thread back on track. Please.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Well, I for one am very interested in seeing additional information about this project. I love the aesthetic of the amplifiers I have seen on FB, I have a huge amount of respect for Gordon's design and workmanship, and Matt has assembled a great group to represent the brand. 

I'm looking forward to seeing more install pics and hopefully hearing some of these products very soon.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Revelation Audio had a great debut at the wonderful SVR show that Larry hosted this weekend. It was a huge event (I believe 40+ SQ cars) and a great venue. 

Meca results included:

Meca SQ Best of Show- Matt Hall
Meca Master- 1st Place, Matt Hall
Meca Extreme- 1st Place, Mike Young
Meca ModEx- 1st Place, (me)


Iasca I have to wait to see them all posted, but I know John Kiser took 1st in ProAm and me 2nd and Matt Hall took 1st in Expert.

They had a nice display table at SVR showing the amp cases and internals of some. Gordon was there as well which was great.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)




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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

captainobvious said:


> Revelation Audio had a great debut at the wonderful SVR show that Larry hosted this weekend. It was a huge event (I believe 40+ SQ cars) and a great venue.
> 
> Meca results included:
> 
> ...



need to mention steve cook as well, he tuned 2 of the 3 mentioned above and i am willing to bet his tune takes precedence over the amps, JMO


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Porsche said:


> need to mention steve cook as well, he tuned 2 of the 3 mentioned above and i am willing to bet his tune takes precedence over the amps, JMO



Yes we all know the tuning is important but the thread is about the Revelation Audio amps which is why I posted it.


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## Hoot (Jan 18, 2008)

Erin, I am confused. How do you support Matt Hall when you know what he did to myself and many others in ripping us off? Was it not you I spoke with over the phone and then who contacted Matt on my behalf in pursuit of my stolen money? I don't get it. You know he's a thief and a pathalogical liar, right?

How is Matt Hall even still able to do business in this industry? He's a scumbag criminal. Do you remember me?

If anyone knows where Matt Hall is currently living, do tell.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Hoot said:


> Erin, I am confused. How do you support Matt Hall when you know what he did to myself and many others in ripping us off? Was it not you I spoke with over the phone and then who contacted Matt on my behalf in pursuit of my stolen money? I don't get it. You know he's a thief and a pathalogical liar, right?
> 
> How is Matt Hall even still able to do business in this industry? He's a scumbag criminal. Do you remember me?
> 
> If anyone knows where Matt Hall is currently living, do tell.


go to Facebook and look up revelation audio and post on that page what you went thru, than his current followers will see what he did to u


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/954380051330741/


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## jaandrade79 (May 17, 2017)

No thanks. That is a stupid amount of money. I wouldn't spend that even if I could. Good luck with that. 

How many does the company plan on selling in a years time? Can't be to many I imagine. 

Just wanna bang


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

From a NOOBs perspective,

First off those amps are flat out beautiful. They are purpose built engineering works of art. What I think is the issue is the price and the everlasting gobstopper that is the "an amp is an amp" debate. 

If the price concerns you then be honest like Hillbilly is. I may never have the spare funds to justify the cost but I would if I could. There are alot of things I would do if I could.

If you truly believe an amp is an amp, then you should probably refrain from commenting on this thread. I started reading this thread and got bored with it for obvious reasons. I came back and read Gordon's tech info and now believe that an amp is not an amp.

When I read a comment that "we don't need another uber high end amp manufacturer", on the contrary we absolutely do. If amplifier R & D did not evolve as it has over the years we would all be trying to achieve our goals running Pyramid amps.

There were comments that Gordon receives some favoritism because of his reputation and involvement in the community and his craft. Uh? EXACTLY! Hello Andy W., Don @ SDS, Nick @ S I . All these folks are active participants on this forum and have taken time to support their products. You can't say that for a vast majority of the products that are considered high end.

Gordon posted some of his design techniques a few poasts back, That takes balls! Most manufacturers will say "well we have been in business for 30 years, we have to be doing something right", Right?

Diminishing results, I can agree with that. If you look at the middle of the road gear I have, these amps will not make my system sound top shelf. Infact it might be an insult to the amp, Lol!

@Gordon, Carry on sir, I can really get behind anyone who says I can do it better and hears why


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

Wanted to stir the pot, so.... Does anyone have any updates on these? Either purhased, used, or demoed. Thanks


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

ive heard 4 or 5 cars with these. all sound great. not going to say "omg these amps sound amazing" cause frankly, thats silly. but all of the cars i heard these in were great, so theres that. they are pretty good looking, and weigh a ton. quality stuff.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Production units are not yet out, so there won't be much feedback (yet) outside of those who have demoed the cars running them at SVR and Finals.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

captainobvious said:


> Production units are not yet out, so there won't be much feedback (yet) outside of those who have demoed the cars running them at SVR and Finals.


has anyone received an amp they paid for yet


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Porsche said:


> has anyone received an amp they paid for yet


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Porsche said:


> has anyone received an amp they paid for yet


Was there a preorder?


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Was there a preorder?


i spoke to them months ago, he said go to there site and put a deposit dn, i passed. thats not a very smart move IMO


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I hope no one gets screwed. If they do we can't say we didn't warn them. I doubt they have anything to worry about with Gordon. It's Matt that has apparently caused a bunch of grief for a lot of people.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I hope no one gets screwed. If they do we can't say we didn't warn them. I doubt they have anything to worry about with Gordon. It's Matt that has apparently caused a bunch of grief for a lot of people.



there FB page is gone. i wouldn't use them if he gave it to me, that dude is a a55


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

I have personally seen like 7 cars with them.. So yes. And the Facebook page still exists

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> I have personally seen like 7 cars with them.. So yes. And the Facebook page still exists
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


i know they had some amps out in the field, they showed them back in august at the show. where are they now?


We couldn't find anything for revelation audio
Looking for people or posts? Try entering a name, location, or different words.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Porsche said:


> i know they had some amps out in the field, they showed them back in august at the show. where are they now?
> 
> 
> We couldn't find anything for revelation audio
> Looking for people or posts? Try entering a name, location, or different words.


The ones at the show on the table were just demo pieces for people to look at. There wwre also 6 or 7 people at that same show who actually haf them installed in their car. Big mike and captain obvious of the forum were two of them. Matt, dan Adam, Phil, and I think one more who's name I can't remember, maybe it was pete? and John aka subterfuse getting ready to switch I think were all running them 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Looks like some very respectable people running these amps so far. Maybe they have inside information on what's really going on that could ease everyone else's mind about trusting the people behind this new boutique brand? I'm just in search of the truth.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Since there's mud being slung about Matt Hall, is there evidence proving that he did these people wrong?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Yeah. Who even pre ordered one that didn't get one yet? 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

well I'm not slinging mud on anyone, just wondering if they are still around. they where very very active and a lot of folks talking about them and now crickets, went to there FB and its gone, kinda odd. as far as the issues people had with Matt i couldn't tell ya but there was several and usually where theres smoke theres fire.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Porsche said:


> well I'm not slinging mud on anyone, just wondering if they are still around. they where very very active and a lot of folks talking about them and now crickets, went to there FB and its gone, kinda odd. as far as the issues people had with Matt i couldn't tell ya but there was several and usually where theres smoke theres fire.


There's still the fb group.. and I haven't heard of anyone preordering, or complaining that they haven't gotten anything yet. Gordon and Matt post updates on the building of them usually at least once a week it seems

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> There's still the fb group.. and I haven't heard of anyone preordering, or complaining that they haven't gotten anything yet. Gordon and Matt post updates on the building of them usually at least once a week it seems
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


dunno, strange, i tried to go to the group page and it says no longer exist, went to the website, click on the link, same thing. oh well


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Porsche said:


> dunno, strange, i tried to go to the group page and it says no longer exist, went to the website, click on the link, same thing. oh well


This group?









Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

There’s still a FB page and it’s very active. The amps are being hand built as we speak(I’ve seen the pics of them) and they are well on their way to being ready to ship. 
If you have reservations then don’t buy one but stirring up **** with nothing behind it, well that’s just ****ty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> This group?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh well, guess i was kicked out for some reason, thanks


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

chefhow said:


> There’s still a FB page and it’s very active. The amps are being hand built as we speak(I’ve seen the pics of them) and they are well on their way to being ready to ship.
> If you have reservations then don’t buy one but stirring up **** with nothing behind it, well that’s just ****ty.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


take a vallium, i didn't stir up anything, asked a simple question


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Definitely seems like your trying. Jus sayin

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> Definitely seems like your trying. Jus sayin
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


if u say so, tried to discuss doing business with him, he blew me off but whatever, i will stick to zapco, they are friendly folks


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Porsche said:


> take a vallium, i didn't stir up anything, asked a simple question




All you have to do is go back 1 page and read your comments.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

chefhow said:


> All you have to do is go back 1 page and read your comments.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


if saying i wouldn't use them cause he's an a55 is offending u than i dunno what to tell ya, like i said at one point i was very interested, i was just wondering if they where still around cause the FB was gone, atleast for me. I'm done with this, i could careless at this point, like i said a moment ago, i will keep with zapco, they clearly know how to treat people IMO

later


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

There's a long thread about his business dealings on here.

Also, Hoot posted, in this very thread, about is his issue, but I noticed it was conveniently overlooked.

But that's the new DIYMA for you.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Porsche said:


> there FB page is gone. i wouldn't use them if he gave it to me, that dude is a a55





Porsche said:


> *We* couldn't find anything for revelation audio
> Looking for people or posts? Try entering a name, location, or different words.


We? Who's we?



Porsche said:


> *well I'm not slinging mud on anyone,* just wondering if they are still around. they where very very active and a lot of folks talking about them and now crickets, went to there FB and its gone, kinda odd. as far as the issues people had with Matt i couldn't tell ya but there was several and usually where theres smoke theres fire.



********.




Porsche said:


> if saying i wouldn't use them cause he's an a55 is offending u than i dunno what to tell ya, like i said at one point i was very interested, i was just wondering if they where still around cause the FB was gone, atleast for me. I'm done with this, i could careless at this point, like i said a moment ago, i will keep with zapco, they clearly know how to treat people IMO
> 
> later




Sir, I know you READ my post because you quoted it in a cheeky response: 



Porsche said:


> has anyone received an amp they paid for yet



See? 


You are not interested in the amps. You were never interested in the amps. Lets be honest here.

I said plainly that these are still *in production*....which would mean to the man with common sense that they are not yet PRODUCED. Why are you worried about people receiving amps when you yourself have no interest in the amps and do not plan to buy one?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the reason you don't see anything about Revelation Audio on Facebook is because A) You are not looking for content about it and just trying to be an ass and B) because you are likely blocked from their page because of (A).



Porsche said:


> i know they had some amps out in the field, they showed them back in august at the show. where are they now?


The amps that are out in the field currently are pre-production amps. Some samples were able to be seen at the SVR show as well as demo's of the vehicles with pre-production amplifiers. Other than that, there aren't customers out there riding around with production amps because...again...they are still being produced and not yet available. Those amps are still in the vehicles of those people. 

As Howard alluded to above, you are clearly trolling. Noone likes a troll. Don't be a troll.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Looks like some very respectable people running these amps so far. Maybe they have inside information on what's really going on that could ease everyone else's mind about trusting the people behind this new boutique brand? *I'm just in search of the truth.*




The truth is it takes some time to engineer and produce an excellent quality product in this space. Yes, it is a small boutique brand which means it will not move at the pace of a mass producer, nor will it sacrifice quality and performance over speed to market. Designing the optimal board and component layout... sourcing, testing, auditioning and selecting the finest components for the design... machining the ideal heatsinks to both maximize performance and beauty... materials and packaging...there is a lot that goes into making a great product.
Gordon Taylor is an outstanding engineer and his body of work speaks for itself. The RA amp lineup will be stellar with him at the helm.
Those who actually have interest in the product have been keeping up with the latest on social media. Matt has been very good about sharing any updates and progress and answering peoples questions as they near closer to a release date of their first articles.

I'm planning to be at Jason's GTG in the Spring (barring any conflicts), so if you want to get a listen to the vehicle with my RA pre-production units you are welcomed to buddy.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

captainobvious said:


> We? Who's we?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


sorry to ruffle your feather, not being a troll. i was following the amps because i heard good things about them, period, was i serious about buying them, absolutely until he brushed me off. i asked if anyone had received there amps yet because i found it odd that when i went to there private page it said it no longer existed, period. i haven't said anything negative about them other than he was an a55, probably because he was busy and does not know me, I'm not part of the "club", however, i was very serious about trying them but i think its cute you think i wasn't interested or I'm not able to buy them, either way, not very smart and pretty bad business IMO


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I hope no one gets screwed. If they do we can't say we didn't warn them. I doubt they have anything to worry about with Gordon. It's Matt that has apparently caused a bunch of grief for a lot of people.


I posted on this matter a while back but...

Matt is involved in many different shows. He has competed at finals the past 3-4 years and other shows in between. If he were out to swindle people as you imply, well... he's a very brave person. 


So, as far as dealings with Matt, this is what I know:
Matt had a bad transaction go down in 2009 with Hoot. Hoot would call it much worse than "bad", but you get the point. I got between the two to try to help mediate it. Matt had his own side of the story which was believable (as was Hoot's). Wasn't my place to take sides. I didn't know either person other than from the forum and from Matt sending me something a couple years before. I was just trying to get them to resolve it. It's been 8 years since then so my memory is fuzzy. I saw Hoot call me out in an earlier post here and since I was at Jason Hale's meet I just chose not to reply at the time, which I forgot about until this thread was revived recently. That same day (or within a day or two) someone created a fake account to slander Matt - pure hit job given by an ex-girlfriend (apparently, based on what was said); Jason deleted the thread because it had personal information regarding Matt (the kind of personal stuff that only someone close to him would have known, IIRC). I did contact Matt, though, and told him he needs to take care of the situation with Hoot because I saw it still hadn't been resolved. Within a few hours Matt sent me a PayPal screen cap showing he refunded Hoot. I realize it's 8 years later but, even though Matt's defense was he didn't do anything wrong, he still sent $400-something to Hoot. 

Outside of that specific incident, I recall Matt had other people that were aggravated by him but I don't remember anyone else being upset over a bad deal; just people didn't like his attitude from the ECA days (which was 10+ years ago). But, to me those are 'par for the course' dealings. Plenty of people here probably don't like me but that's.. par for the course. 


As mentioned above, I had dealings with Matt waaaay back when he sent me a cable for free; a cable that cost about $100 at the time. Dude just sent it to me and this was when I first got in to the hobby. More recently, over the past 4 years or so I've hung out with Matt at shows and talked with him online off an on. Seems like a good dude to me. Even has had Steve Cook do work for him a few times (Porsche, you know Steve, so you can ask him yourself what he thinks of Matt). 


Cap'n has cleared up the Prototype vs Production element, so I'll re-address the 'scam artist' aspect. I get people wanting to know what they're getting in to. But I think a lot of this stuff is just left-over from a bad deal 8+ years ago where both guys had their side of the story, and both were very plausible complaints. That's since been taken care of. Now we have the torch-carriers and people just wanting to live out some internet-drama. It'd be different if Matt were an internet-only-fellow but with that said, I'll revert back to a comment I made already: Matt's not hiding from anyone. He's out there at shows and meets. If you are concerned about his character you can talk to him directly yourself if you'd like. 

As for the cost debate: Yea, they're expensive. I can't afford them, personally. Do they sound good? I'm sure they're perfectly capable of amplifying signal as they should, based on my knowledge of what Gordon has put out and how much of a critical listener Matt is. Would you be able to tell the difference between them and whatever else?... I dunno... that's your ears and preconceived notions. Does it make sense to bash the product based on price alone? No. Does it make sense to bash a product based on price vs performance? Sure. But not unless you have a means to back up the jabber with technical data or the like. Otherwise it's just subjective talk. And, really, if you're that kind of person (who just wants to bash something because it's expensive) then this product isn't for you.







And, Porsche, as Steve (captainobvious) mentioned above, the reason you can't get in to his group is most likely because Matt/Gordon saw your posts here and realized they didn't want to deal with you. When you have a boutique item like they do, and you're not looking to make a full career out of it, you can afford the luxury of picking and choosing your clients. I'm guessing they chose not to have you as one. If you've an issue with that then talk to them directly about it and stop berating them here. But you said... 



Porsche said:


> I'm done with this, i could careless at this point


... so I'm guessing you won't bother.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

This is literally one of the most entertaining and comical threads right now on DIYMA. 

I would go into more of my thoughts but I don't fell it would be worth it in the end.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Thanks Erin. That's exactly what I was looking for. To clear things up I never intended to slander Matt. I simply was looking for what really happened and it was pretty much what I suspected. I hope his venture with Gordon prospers and I really mean that. I think there are plenty of people in this hobby with the means to buy these amps.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Niebur3 said:


> This is literally one of the most entertaining and comical threads right now on DIYMA.


That's because this place is a trash-bin now with drama and BS. But, that's a topic for another thread and I don't wanna have to ban myself for going OT so I'll stop there.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

ErinH said:


> And, Porsche, as Steve (captainobvious) mentioned above, the reason you can't get in to his group is most likely because Matt/Gordon saw your posts here and realized they didn't want to deal with you. When you have a boutique item like they do, and you're not looking to make a full career out of it, you can afford the luxury of picking and choosing your clients. I'm guessing they chose not to have you as one. If you've an issue with that then talk to them directly about it and stop berating them here. But you said...
> 
> 
> 
> ... so I'm guessing you won't bother.




again, I'm not bashing anyone, i was interested, very interested many months ago. but, if you think you can pick and choose your clientele based on being a highend product, well, thats extremely arrogant and very stupid IMO. i have the means to buy anything they have, and would have if they he would have given me the time of day, i have several cars and considered them for a few of them, thats there lost, not mine. you mentioned Steve Cook so I will tell you the same thing you mentioned above, ask him about my personality and character. i don't appreciate being hammered and called a troll because i asked a question

now I'm done, and again, i will use the zapco AP/LX in my cars instead and i am sure i won't miss a beat

later


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Porsche said:


> sorry to ruffle your feather, not being a troll. i was following the amps because i heard good things about them, period, was i serious about buying them, absolutely until he brushed me off. i asked if anyone had received there amps yet because i found it odd that when i went to there private page it said it no longer existed, period. i haven't said anything negative about them other than he was an a55, probably because he was busy and does not know me, I'm not part of the "club", however, i was very serious about trying them but i think its cute you think i wasn't interested or I'm not able to buy them, either way, not very smart and pretty bad business IMO


I don't make guesses about peoples ability to buy whatever they want. I'm not "that guy", believe me.
Matt is a busy fellow and serves our country in some hostile territory when he is not pursuing his other dream of audio. I would allow him a little more "flexibility" in response and a little more courtesy in judgement. I believe the product will speak for itself. The production units will be even further developed than the stuff people have been demoing.



Cheers


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## rollypoli (Jan 4, 2018)

I have been looking into them and they are very impressive beautiful amps built with matt hall and gordon Taylor and others. I haven't gotten to hear them yet, but all the cars who ran them in finals last year placed except one that got fourth. That's pretty damn good

they also have a facebook page where they've posted photos of their internals


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

I don't understand the constant insinuation that these amps had really anything to do with how these cars placed at finals and that this should have any bearing on if these amps are any good or not or worth the price.


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

Niebur3 said:


> I don't understand the constant insinuation that these amps had really anything to do with how these cars placed at finals and that this should have any bearing on if these amps are any good or not or worth the price.




Probably because if they didn’t then it would be much harder to justify spending this amount on an amplifier. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Niebur3 said:


> I don't understand the constant insinuation that these amps had really anything to do with how these cars placed at finals and that this should have any bearing on if these amps are any good or not or worth the price.




The same can be said for any piece of gear that anyone runs who has success in competing. The worth and value are going to be determined by each individual who considers purchasing and what their needs are.

As we all know though, a quality product still needs experience and skill behind it to reach its potential in a given vehicle, especially at those high levels. Success in competing at a high level requires a lot more than one single piece of the chain. Yet, each piece also contributes to the end result.


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

I am curious? has there ever been a cheap amp, i.e. Class D, low end, mid level amp that has won a final?

Went through MECA history and it is very difficult to find exacly what gear was in the winning car


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Yes. Lots.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Locomotive Tech said:


> I am curious? has there ever been a cheap amp, i.e. Class D, low end, mid level amp that has won a final?
> 
> Went through MECA history and it is very difficult to find exacly what gear was in the winning car


kyle ragsdale. 8(?) ppi phantom 600.2's won mod street(?) a few years ago


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

benny z said:


> Yes. Lots.


Thanks Benny!


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Steve said it but I'll say it a bit more shortly: attributing a win to a single component in the chain is a mistake. --- You can also take that further and get in to the debate of "winning cars don't sound like what I would prefer to listen to"... which is a huge can of worms and often involves people yammering on about hating 'winning' systems when they can't even cobble together an in-phase set of midranges. (I'm salty, yep, but am not far from the truth.) But that's been beaten to death numerous times already. --- It's the parts that make up a whole.

Anyway... I don't subscribe to the fact that all amps sound the same. I also don't think that high-price always reflects high-performance or vice-versa. But I do think that if you have a quality product with a manufacturer who is willing to back it up with technical help or repair/replacement issues then you've got one less thing "in the chain" to worry about and can focus on the more important aspects like driver choice/install and then tuning. That's what Matt and Gordon seem to be doing.


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## Arete (Oct 6, 2013)

Niebur3 said:


> I don't understand the constant insinuation that these amps had really anything to do with how these cars placed at finals and that this should have any bearing on if these amps are any good or not or worth the price.


Agree with this. There are MANY other things that impact the sound MUCH more than an amp. I know amps don’t sound the same but at the end of the day is a truly bad ass system going to sound thousands of dollars more bad ass with a different amp? Guess that is up to the person. My thoughts are No.


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

Amps do sound different for other amps,anybody that works in the car audio industry should have proof of that, I work with a Jl audio dealer and all the amp lines sounds different, i do a lot of C5 and C3 with HD, XD, Slash amps and in a blind test with that setup I’ll 100% of the time tell you what Jl amp is been used. The HD has that almost dead dry sound, the XD more bright and sounds similar to the Arc audio xdi amps and the slash to me sounds natural more like a Macintosh . This is from me installing hundreds of JL products over the years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

Interesting Mullings, I never quantified the way my HD sounds but when you made the comparison to the ARC, I see what you mean. I swapped my HD600 with my ARC and got a similar impression.

I know this is a little off topic, I know there are plenty of "High End" amps out there but another aspect that is important to me is the aesthetics of the amp design. When I look in my trunk at my HD's and then look in someone else's that has some gorgeous Brax, Mosconi, Mcintosh etc. I want to close my trunk.

These amps are beautiful!


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Guys, there's already a handful of very long threads where people argue about amps sounding the same that you can post in. Here's some links:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...stry-dogma/141216-higher-end-amp-sq-myth.html
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...177-modern-full-range-class-d-amplifiers.html
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...834-highend-amps-have-audible-difference.html


So, let's not turn this thread in to that. Just for the sake of all our sanity.


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

Roger that!


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## rollypoli (Jan 4, 2018)

Porsche said:


> i know they had some amps out in the field, they showed them back in august at the show. where are they now?
> 
> 
> We couldn't find anything for revelation audio
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To answer where they are they took them back because they were not blackboarded yet and Gordon wanted to make tweaks so that the amp better suited the way Americans listen compared to across the pond. I have a friend who has gutted the money and listened to the same system with and without them and thought it was worth buying so there’s that. They are shipping them out before competition this year I believe. Matt did a lot of amp research so I believe they know what they’re doing.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

rollypoli said:


> To answer where they are they took them back because they were not blackboarded yet and Gordon wanted to make tweaks so that the amp better suited the way Americans listen compared to across the pond. I have a friend who has gutted the money and listened to the same system with and without them and thought it was worth buying so there’s that. They are shipping them out before competition this year I believe. Matt did a lot of amp research so I believe they know what they’re doing.



make tweaks so they suited americans, thats pretty silly and from what i have heard about gordon i don't know if i buy that, the very best amplifier or speaker should be neutral, not adjusted for ones preference

I'm sure they are great amps

I'm sure they researched them and i never doubted they, being gordon didn't know what he was doing designing them


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

captainobvious said:


> The same can be said for any piece of gear that anyone runs who has success in competing. The worth and value are going to be determined by each individual who considers purchasing and what their needs are.
> 
> As we all know though, a quality product still needs experience and skill behind it to reach its potential in a given vehicle, especially at those high levels. Success in competing at a high level requires a lot more than one single piece of the chain. Yet, each piece also contributes to the end result.


Sure, tell that to Mark Eldridge (for those that don't know, one of the winningest vehicles ever in car audio competition and used JL HD - Class D Amps).

Listen, if you have the money and want to spend it on $5k amps, go for it. Hell, I'm a Sinfoni and Brax dealer....I have $5k amps for sale. However, telling people that this in any measurable way led to a trophy at finals is laughable. Tell them to buy because of the insanely good parts inside and tremendous build quality. Leave competition out of it.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Niebur3 said:


> Sure, tell that to Mark Eldridge (for those that don't know, one of the winningest vehicles ever in car audio competition and used JL HD - Class D Amps).
> 
> Listen, if you have the money and want to spend it on $5k amps, go for it. Hell, I'm a Sinfoni and Brax dealer....I have $5k amps for sale. However, telling people that this in any measurable way led to a trophy at finals is laughable. Tell them to buy because of the insanely good parts inside and tremendous build quality. Leave competition out of it.


That's what Steve kinda said..

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

SkizeR said:


> That's what Steve kinda said..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Yea. Jerry, I'm not sure how you read Steve's reply the way you did. Steve and you are on the same page.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Sorry, meant to quote someone else for part of it and I think I did misread his post for the rest of it. Sorry guys!


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