# Oil based clay or Sound deadning?



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

What do you prefer?

I like sound deadning for the floors but love clay in the doors!


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

I'm not sure you can use only one or the other in a solid install. Really, it's all about meshing a bunch of different products for your different needs.


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## Fish Chris (Dec 14, 2008)

WTF is oil based clay ?

I might start to think I was the only one that didn't have a clue..... except for the fact that your post had only gotten 1 reply, for 87 views, in 2 days....

Peace,
Fish


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## M1A1 (Oct 4, 2008)

Non hardening modeling clay.


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## Fish Chris (Dec 14, 2008)

Okay, and how is this stuff used ? What brands are popular for automotive sound deadening ? Cost ? Effectiveness compared to sheet deadeners ?

BTW, I surfed around for a little while and found very little about oil based clays for this purpose......

Hmmmm,
Fish


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## DaleCarter (Jan 3, 2008)

Clay can be packed inside speaker pods for mass deadening

Check out Simplicityinsound pod builds


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## hamburglar79 (Jan 21, 2009)

I have only heard about using non-hardening modeling clay in small spaces, i.e. speakers "pods" and on the inside trim of your auto to weigh it down and stop viberations. I would give it a try but I am sick and tierd of taking off my inside door panels. Maybe for my trim around the HU or overhead displays/controls.


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

considering the huge benefits, I would take off the panels again and apply....

we have 6 lbs in our kicks for our 5" subs and 4 lbs in our pillars for our 3" mids.

It's not only used in small pieces.

Our first sub enclosure had like 10 lbs of it used on the face of the enclosure.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Clay is a mess and there really isn't any place in my install where I could benefit from it. Afterall my truck gets treated like a truck and drives across gravel DAILY. There are also holes in the road that would make some cars scrape easily. And I'm not even going to get into my trips to Paron


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

I'm not sure I understand this thought that clay is a mess.

We've been using is for years and have never run into a single issue. 117 degree days and it's never run, never melted, etc.

Not sure I understand this issue that everyone runs into....???


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

When I did my Morel CAW938's in the doors I used around 10lbs per door. You can purchase 15lbs on egay for $30 and it works. I also use around 5 lb's per kick panel on any kickpanel I use. Clay is the shiz


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## kiranjoseph (Jan 2, 2009)

Ok here are a few questions from someone whos never used clay... which I'm sure will benefit others out there like me  .... SO when u say you apply it (8 to 10 pounds of it) in tight enclosures, like the Kicks - doesnt this just fill out the entire enclosure??? Will you not be left with no room behind the speaker which means that the mid bass will end up really flat??? Am I missing something here? how do you guys apply this stuff and make it stick to the enclosure walls?

This info would be super useful since i'm in the middle of trying to figure out how to locate and stop some annoying vibration that I'm getting somewhere around / behind my mid driver. I have made an odd shaped fiberglass enclosure that is screwed directly onto my door panel. I have deadened the enclosure with 2 full tubes of silicone gel (inside and outside of the enclosure) and about a quarter inch of high density EVA foam. The enclosure is securely fastened to the door panel and has a layer of Silicone gel between itself and the door panel just for good measure. I have also used dynamat behind the door panel and around the window motor and stuff so that nothing moves!!!

So here is the problem,- The mid has this annoying vibration thats seems like its comming from right behind the driver at reasonably loud volumes (20 and above on my alpine 9887 with my amp gains at between half and 3/4) I'm using the passive crossover (the speakers are Polk SR 6500's) so I know that Im not driving frequencies that are too low. I was forced to set the amp crossover at around 80 or maybe more to eliminate this, but when I do this I lose most of my upfront bass and my soundstage gets pulled to the rear of my vehicle where the sub is. I have used the SR's full range before with the passive crossovers and had no problem playing it loud so I know its not the speakers. Infact when I lift the speaker from the enclosure - creating a gap between them; the vibration seems to disappear! I do know that Polk has recommended a minimal enclosure size of 0.4 cuFt, and my enclosure size is about 0.23 cuFt, but thats as big as I could possible go. Does anyone know if a smaller enclosure size would cause this crass-vibration effect on a mid driver??? Or is this a sound deadening issue???In which case I'm going to try out the clay option (See I finally got back to the topic of this thread  ) Anyone who knows anything that can help; It will be much appreciated!!! thanks

Kiran


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## kiranjoseph (Jan 2, 2009)

Ok here are a few questions from someone whos never used clay... which I'm sure will benefit others out there like me  .... SO when u say you apply it (8 to 10 pounds of it) in tight enclosures, like the Kicks - doesnt this just fill out the entire enclosure??? Will you not be left with no room behind the speaker which means that the mid bass will end up really flat??? Am I missing something here? how do you guys apply this stuff and make it stick to the enclosure walls?

This info would be super useful since i'm in the middle of trying to figure out how to locate and stop some annoying vibration that I'm getting somewhere around / behind my mid driver. I have made an odd shaped fiberglass enclosure that is screwed directly onto my door panel. I have deadened the enclosure with 2 full tubes of silicone gel (inside and outside of the enclosure) and about a quarter inch of high density EVA foam. The enclosure is securely fastened to the door panel and has a layer of Silicone gel between itself and the door panel just for good measure. I have also used dynamat behind the door panel and around the window motor and stuff so that nothing moves!!!

So here is the problem,- The mid has this annoying vibration thats seems like its comming from right behind the driver at reasonably loud volumes (20 and above on my alpine 9887 with my amp gains at between half and 3/4) I'm using the passive crossover (the speakers are Polk SR 6500's) so I know that Im not driving frequencies that are too low. I was forced to set the amp crossover at around 80 or maybe more to eliminate this, but when I do this I lose most of my upfront bass and my soundstage gets pulled to the rear of my vehicle where the sub is. I have used the SR's full range before with the passive crossovers and had no problem playing it loud so I know its not the speakers. Infact when I lift the speaker from the enclosure - creating a gap between them; the vibration seems to disappear! I do know that Polk has recommended a minimal enclosure size of 0.4 cuFt, and my enclosure size is about 0.23 cuFt, but thats as big as I could possible go. Does anyone know if a smaller enclosure size would cause this crass-vibration effect on a mid driver??? Or is this a sound deadening issue???In which case I'm going to try out the clay option (See I finally got back to the topic of this thread  ) Anyone who knows anything that can help; It will be much appreciated!!! thanks

Kiran


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

Bump for this thread I am now interested in doing my whole entire door outer shell with clay someone answer the questions


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

no - don't do your entire door in clay....that just wouldn't work out at all....


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

RedGTiVR6 said:


> no - don't do your entire door in clay....that just wouldn't work out at all....


ygpm again


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

The clay is used to add mass to the enclosure to reduce the possibility of resonances. Adding it to your doors is going about doing this in the wrong way. If you wanted to add it to the mounting baffle that would make more sense. It just doesn't make any sense to line an entire door with clay when you consider the property of clay and how it's going to have to be applied and how it's going to stick (or not going to stick) in a large vertical flat sheet.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

RedGTiVR6 said:


> I'm not sure I understand this thought that clay is a mess.
> 
> We've been using is for years and have never run into a single issue. 117 degree days and it's never run, never melted, etc.
> 
> Not sure I understand this issue that everyone runs into....???


Seriously. Me either. I see you're in Texas, too. 

I'm a huge fan, have used several brands and varieties, have heated it up in the oven, and I can't make the stuff fail. What am I doing wrong here? Help, please.


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

trunks9_us said:


> Bump for this thread I am now interested in doing my whole entire door outer shell with clay someone answer the questions


that poor 7000lb Corolla


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

capnxtreme said:


> that poor 7000lb Corolla


I'll risk sounding like a critical a-hole to say that we need just as many "what NOT to do's" as "what TO do's" in this hobby, IMHAO. Like any other hobby where people really get into it, there's always those that get sucked into groupthink and drown in the process.


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## kiranjoseph (Jan 2, 2009)

8675309 said:


> When I did my Morel CAW938's in the doors I used around 10lbs per door. You can purchase 15lbs on egay for $30 and it works. I also use around 5 lb's per kick panel on any kickpanel I use. Clay is the shiz


Hey could you give us a few insights as to how you go about using clay as a sound deadener? Do u just apply it straight onto the enclosure walls?? how does it stick and not peel off especially with all the turbulence in there created by the mid-driver. What kind do you use? Is it just regular stuff that we could get at an arts and crafts store?? Also could you take a look at my previous reply to this thread and shed some light if you could...thanks


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> Seriously. Me either. I see you're in Texas, too.
> 
> I'm a huge fan, have used several brands and varieties, have heated it up in the oven, and I can't make the stuff fail. What am I doing wrong here? Help, please.


Using clay to deaden an entire door just isn't going about it the right way. there's a lot smarter ways of going about it.

Just use common sense when thinking about getting a 1/4" thick sheet of clay to stick to a vertical surface of a door for a few years.

If it's not making any sense then I'm not sure how else to explain it.

Using it in certain locations WITHIN the door makes sense, like on the mounting baffle, etc.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

RedGTiVR6 said:


> Using clay to deaden an entire door just isn't going about it the right way. there's a lot smarter ways of going about it.
> 
> Just use common sense when thinking about getting a 1/4" thick sheet of clay to stick to a vertical surface of a door for a few years.
> 
> ...


That was a double sarcastic  on that, Jan. I was kidding. 

My point is that NHMC works so well for me and costs so little I see it as fool proof and I don't understand the problems people have with it. 

And as far as temperature and stickage goes, the oil-based clay that's behind and around my baffles in my door is pretty rock hard when it gets -25*F here. It's not going anywhere, not cracking, and _not resonating_ (audibly that i can tell, anyway). And the variety of stuff I've used and reused for years hasn't failed me yet. Guess I'm a special boy.


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

I'm not sure about the problems that people have with it either. A lot of people down here claim to have problems with it because of the heat. When it's 120 outside, its' easily 180+ in the car. Some people claim that the clay doesn't stick. I can see that absolutely being the case in a car door when applied to a large vertical surface like a door skin. However, in most cases where you would use it, I've not ever run into an issue with it.

What I'm getting is is that these guys that are wanting to use it to deaden an ENTIRE door are trying to apply it in the wrong manner. If, however, they wanted to apply it in their door to take care of a specific issue in a specific area, THEN it makes sense.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

RedGTiVR6 said:


> What I'm getting is is that these guys that are wanting to use it to deaden an ENTIRE door are trying to apply it in the wrong manner. If, however, they wanted to apply it in their door to take care of a specific issue in a specific area, THEN it makes sense.


Right, total a total coverage load-down isn't probably the best approach. But if I bought a new car today and needed to damp the driver mounting surface, I'd first hit it with an extensional VE damper like VB-2, smash down 3-4 lbs of NHMC placed strategically toward the center of the panel and near the driver, and then either hit it again with VB-2 or aluminum foil to seal the clay off.

And if you know for a fact your door will hit 180* F, then you need a synthetic clay like Alumilite. IMHO, mass begins where damping ends.....and your CLD mats are no bueno at those temps.


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

On my open back kicks I apply clay to the backside of the front baffle. A layer of around 1.5 inches can really add density. 

On my doors I put around 5lbs around the woofers all the way up to the door panel. I built up off the baffle so when I put the door panel on the clay would touch the back of the panel. I also took around 5lbs and applied it to various week locations on the actual door panel.




kiranjoseph said:


> Hey could you give us a few insights as to how you go about using clay as a sound deadener? Do u just apply it straight onto the enclosure walls?? how does it stick and not peel off especially with all the turbulence in there created by the mid-driver. What kind do you use? Is it just regular stuff that we could get at an arts and crafts store?? Also could you take a look at my previous reply to this thread and shed some light if you could...thanks


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## hallsc (Oct 26, 2008)

Is there any way someone could put some pictures up of this clay application, if they have some taken? I am interested in this, and I know it would help me (and maybe some other less-than-expert people) understand where/how much to put this stuff


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

What questions do you have specifically? You use the clay to add mass. To reduce resonances.

The first thing you have to understand is the purpose of an ENTIRELY dead cabinet/enclosure, once you fully understand the importance of this, then you'll understand where you need to place it and why.

Just following pictures of what someone else has done will teach you nothing other than how to be a sheep. You won't really learn anything. If that's ok with you, then you can check pics on my page for kicks and for pillars. (http://www.mj-garage.com)


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## hallsc (Oct 26, 2008)

Just thought I could get a better idea of how to do this; I was having trouble picture this in my head. I am not a grizzled veteran like you, and I am just trying to learn


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## kiranjoseph (Jan 2, 2009)

8675309 said:


> On my open back kicks I apply clay to the backside of the front baffle. A layer of around 1.5 inches can really add density.
> 
> On my doors I put around 5lbs around the woofers all the way up to the door panel. I built up off the baffle so when I put the door panel on the clay would touch the back of the panel. I also took around 5lbs and applied it to various week locations on the actual door panel.


When u build it up like that on your door, doesnt it choke the driver and not allow it to play low? How do you achieve your up-front bass?


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

kiranjoseph said:


> How do you achieve your up-front bass?


By putting you driver in a kick, not in a door...


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## hallsc (Oct 26, 2008)

Any way to fix that if you want to keep a "stock appearance"? Would possibly sealing off the inside of the door panel work just as well?


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

I'd say that we've kept a pretty stock appearance with our kicks. We are constantly having to ask people to keep their feet out of our kicks when they get in the car to listen. They then respond with "oh! I didn't even see them down there!"


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## kiranjoseph (Jan 2, 2009)

RedGTiVR6 said:


> I'd say that we've kept a pretty stock appearance with our kicks. We are constantly having to ask people to keep their feet out of our kicks when they get in the car to listen. They then respond with "oh! I didn't even see them down there!"


Hey could u do us a huge favour and post some pics of your kick panels before, during and after installation. It would be hugely appreciated!! thanks!


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

Steel Kicks


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## dovogod (Jan 21, 2009)

I just bought some clay. Im going to give the clay method a shot. I've been installing for 7 years and never heard of clay in an install til i read a thread on this site like a week ago.


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## Ozziefudd (Oct 1, 2008)

kiranjoseph said:


> Ok here are a few questions from someone whos never used clay... which I'm sure will benefit others out there like me  .... SO when u say you apply it (8 to 10 pounds of it) in tight enclosures, like the Kicks - doesnt this just fill out the entire enclosure??? Will you not be left with no room behind the speaker which means that the mid bass will end up really flat??? Am I missing something here? how do you guys apply this stuff and make it stick to the enclosure walls?
> 
> This info would be super useful since i'm in the middle of trying to figure out how to locate and stop some annoying vibration that I'm getting somewhere around / behind my mid driver. I have made an odd shaped fiberglass enclosure that is screwed directly onto my door panel. I have deadened the enclosure with 2 full tubes of silicone gel (inside and outside of the enclosure) and about a quarter inch of high density EVA foam. The enclosure is securely fastened to the door panel and has a layer of Silicone gel between itself and the door panel just for good measure. I have also used dynamat behind the door panel and around the window motor and stuff so that nothing moves!!!
> 
> ...


What kind of material are you using to decouple your driver from its enclosure/mounting?


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## Ozziefudd (Oct 1, 2008)

hallsc said:


> Is there any way someone could put some pictures up of this clay application, if they have some taken? I am interested in this, and I know it would help me (and maybe some other less-than-expert people) understand where/how much to put this stuff


Might look in the build forums for BigReds build, if I remember correctly he used it around his L8's. Its not rocket science though, use it around your baffles to add strength and rigidity to the enclosure, just make sure that your leaving plenty of air space around and behind the driver. Once you have the clay where you want it cover the clay with a product like Dynamat. Clay is just one of alot of products used in this manor to add weight. Some people melt down lead tire weights and form it into their baffles or panels, clay doesnt have the health risks of lead. I have also seen bb's encased in epoxy which seemed to work but has to be harder to work.


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

NHMC has it's place in a car audio install. It is not a replacement for butyl sound deadners sheets but is very good for decoupling speakers mounting rings, adding mass to kick panels and/or small enclosures.
I also use it at some small spaces in the trim panels. No problem and it works.
Easy to work with, cheap, non resonant at the audio passband...


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## my89_928gt (Aug 22, 2006)

RedGTiVR6 said:


> I'm not sure about the problems that people have with it either. A lot of people down here claim to have problems with it because of the heat. When it's 120 outside, its' easily 180+ in the car. Some people claim that the clay doesn't stick. I can see that absolutely being the case in a car door when applied to a large vertical surface like a door skin. However, in most cases where you would use it, I've not ever run into an issue with it.
> 
> What I'm getting is is that these guys that are wanting to use it to deaden an ENTIRE door are trying to apply it in the wrong manner. If, however, they wanted to apply it in their door to take care of a specific issue in a specific area, THEN it makes sense.


I am using clay for the first time in my current install on the mounting baffles for the mid. Doing that way witch I have done I can not see it felling in the heat either. I agree multiple products should be used.


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## 05_sprcrw (Dec 29, 2008)

Where are you guys purchasing this clay from?


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## pieces (Dec 29, 2005)

05_sprcrw said:


> Where are you guys purchasing this clay from?


I bought mine at the local craft store. You should be able to get a nice 5lb block for $5 I think (it's been awhile since I bought). IMO not something you want to pay for shipping on considering the mass. Just make sure it is non-hardening.


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## 05_sprcrw (Dec 29, 2008)

Thanks will do.


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## Fussion289 (Apr 3, 2009)

I too would like to see some pics of vehicles with clay. If your doing a build please give us some pics only b/c I have troubles visualizing what's going on without some sort of visual aid.

Heck pictures that have black drawn on them of other door panels would work LOL


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## psychotic (Jul 14, 2008)

Fussion289 said:


> I too would like to see some pics of vehicles with clay. If your doing a build please give us some pics only b/c I have troubles visualizing what's going on without some sort of visual aid.
> 
> Heck pictures that have black drawn on them of other door panels would work LOL


Agreed.

I have NEVER heard of using clay in an install... at first it sounds as if you use it as sound deadener... then someone mentions using it to deaden the door and you kinda bash him. I seem to get the idea, the clay can help deaden resonance within close proximity to the driver (one the baffle) and can also help with those random rattles behind plastic panels... 

However, reading this post... it seems like its just a few of you talking about how great the clay works for you, and not understand why other people don't get it. I'm sure a lot of other people, like me, had no clue what you even meant by clay vs sound deadening... they want to see pictures AS EXAMPLES, not to copy or try and teach them like sheep... when you explain where to use it/how it works, again, it seems as if you are just talking to the other few people who already know how to use it and are replying to questions by just repeating what you've already said. 

I'm not trying to be an ass, but people are interested in this due to all of you saying you've never had a problem, it works great, etc... but these people interested want to learn. There are lots of types of clay, lots of shapes to mold it in, mainly you just talk about weight... so in a kick panel, buy a 5 pound block of 'oil based' clay, and then mold it into a lump 'close to' the driver but still 'give it some room'....? you have to understand why people are confused and cannot visualize it... 

Sounds like a good idea, that unfortunately many people don't know about... I'd just like to see you explain it to these poor people that are really interested but don't understand. I mean... what clay is acceptable, what isn't??? Can I pull out the colored clay the kids use?? what do you mean when you say it can stick in some certain ways and not others? its not JUST about mass, cause I could glue a brick to a baffle and it would probably rattle and sound like ****, it sounds more like this is about deadening... but I wouldn't know cause no one has taken time to explain it. 

again, sorry if I come off sounding mean, I just read this whole post, found the idea interesting, but found the unanswered questions, and the ones that were answered with a 'what don't you get about it?' attitude to be somewhat rude.


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## hellbilly007 (May 12, 2008)

I myself haven't use clay, yet. This is non-hardening clay you find at arts and crafts stores. The stuff you use to make a claymation film with. When using it to decouple the baffle from enclosure they're speaking of putting clay between the baffle and the enclosure, in sorts, like a gasket. So far this is my understanding of clay use.


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## hellbilly007 (May 12, 2008)

Also when used to coat the inside of baffle you are increasing the mass which lowers your resonant frequency.


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## psychotic (Jul 14, 2008)

I hope I didn't kinda kill this thread, it wasn't my intention...

hellbiilly, that is also kinda my understanding... but I also think the clay is used nearby the driver on the outside of the baffle, not just inside, and I saw from the ring of clay it seems to be used as a gasket too... and as one person stated, they even built it up to the point it was pressing against the plastic panel, which would help stop the plastic from resonating too.

I kinda understand it, I was just pointing out that other people were asking how to understand it, asking for pics etc, and interested in using this technique so they could see first hand how it worked, and the responses were somewhat like 'well if you dont get it, think harder, examples and pictures won't help'... personally I think I understand it... although I too would like to SEE some examples of how/where this is applied before I were to try it myself.


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## 05_sprcrw (Dec 29, 2008)

Here are a few shots of my clay I will try to get some of the mids later this week.


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## Fussion289 (Apr 3, 2009)

The 2 bottom pics are fairly close and i'm not sure what we are looking at, could you provide one a little farther out that includes some other stuff to give us some clues? LoL Thanks for the pics btw!


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## 05_sprcrw (Dec 29, 2008)

They were for my center console build I was packing clay around the tray on the inside so I can keep the vibrations out. I will be doing to speaker baffles some time this week I will try to make sure and document them well and do a small write up on it for the guys wanting to know how to do it. However it is as simple as it seems there is no real trick to working with the stuff.


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## psychotic (Jul 14, 2008)

05_sprcrw said:


> Here are a few shots of my clay I will try to get some of the mids later this week.


Thank you for taking the time to post that, it gives a good idea of how much to use around the baffle to try and deaden the sound, as well as how it can be used to keep resonate frequencies out of the plastic trim that usually creates most of the unwanted rattles.


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## psychotic (Jul 14, 2008)

Seems like regular sound deadening material for large all around use, and the clay helps in those specific spots (near the speaker, on the baffle, behind the plastic piece that is vibrating) where it isn't exactly convienent to put on 10 layers of sound deadener, but molding in some clay helps stop that vibration. is this how most of you would say you use the clay in conjunction with typical roll on or even brush on sound deadener?


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## johnvroom (May 5, 2009)

The clay is just another tool in the toolbox. I have had GREAT success with it (using the current brand of putty) while others from the arts and craft store have been OK and others just plain lousy (like any damping material they must adhere tightly). I am currently using IDEAL brand duct seal, some gents at Acoustic Systems (acoustical research facility) in Austin TX I was working with recommended it to me . It needs to be applied (like anything) to a clean surface. It is pliable and dense so it performs a mass load and converts vibrations to heat. I use it on horizontals for mass loading, it is great for fabrication assistance and as gasket material. I have many pounds of Ideal duct seal in my cars doors frame and on the cheep plastic of the doors facing material. It also good for addressing those annoying panels that buzz on bass hits.

It simply can not replace damping sheet materials like Second Skin, the putty just works where the sheet material cant. The Damplifier Pro also provides significant transmission loss (ASTM E90) and that is something the putty can not do as easilly. The putty is also worthless for SPL builds... and I would not line my door with it, too expensive, too time consuming, too heavy and the sheet damping material does a better job


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## velomatt (May 11, 2009)

What about using clay in a sealed sub box to lower the overall volume of the enclosure?
Anyone try that?


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## Riveted1 (Oct 23, 2008)

Why? When wood is cheaper?


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## velomatt (May 11, 2009)

Riveted1 said:


> Why? When wood is cheaper?


Does wood bond to shaped fiberglass as well as clay?
Seems to me clay would be easier to measure as well and apply.
Just a thought.


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## batook (May 17, 2008)

Never tried non-hardening clay but have used rope caulk as gasket material in front and behind baffles, and other places where plastic touches metal and would otherwise vibrate/rattle with bass hits. It's probably a little more expensive than cheap clay from a hobby store but it sticks very well. BTW, I was only able to find it at Ace Hardware, Home Depot and Lowe's do not carry it.


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

I just want to ask you guys...is it possible to mix clay with glue? So that it will adhere better on vertical surfaces.

The reason is...that I was able to use a clay like deadener called Audiolink Damp. And it really worked very well in reducing resonances in my enclosure. I couldn't get hold of this since the distributor decided not to bring the product in anymore.


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

invecs said:


> I just want to ask you guys...is it possible to mix clay with glue? So that it will adhere better on vertical surfaces.
> 
> The reason is...that I was able to use a clay like deadener called Audiolink Damp. And it really worked very well in reducing resonances in my enclosure. I couldn't get hold of this since the distributor decided not to bring the product in anymore.


 
Yes. 
Regular Elmers wood glue with powdered hydrous clay is great.
It will be kind of like silly putty after the oil is absorbed.
WIll end up curing though, and is water soluable.

ANT


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

DIYMA said:


> Yes.
> Regular Elmers wood glue with powdered hydrous clay is great.
> It will be kind of like silly putty after the oil is absorbed.
> WIll end up curing though, and is water soluable.
> ...


Thanks for the reply, ant.

Just one more question...any special recommendation on to how much glue per powdered clay?


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

invecs said:


> Thanks for the reply, ant.
> 
> Just one more question...any special recommendation on to how much glue per powdered clay?



Start with a 50/50 ratio by weight.
That willg et you close, then keep adding powder until you get the right viscosity.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

capnxtreme said:


> that poor 7000lb Corolla


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## JMachan (Jul 3, 2008)

While the description wasn't great initially, it seems clay as a deadening agent is pretty obvious to the extent that if it sticks, it adds mass. Cool...and has some obvious limitations regarding where you'd expect it to be able to stick. Glad that was all straightened out.

ditto as a gasket...

What I've found more interesting in other posts is regarding decoupling...which was only briefly mentioned. That's where I'm most interested. What have other people done specifically to decouple with clay. As a gasket, you'd crank them screws down and let the glay fill whatever gaps are there...but in order to decouple, I'd think you'd need to either leave them very loose or ditch screws altogether (would this even work with the torque from the weight of the magnet in the back)?

I would love to hear from those with experience with clay for decoupling AS DISTINCT from just adding mass to anything that vibrates or as a gasket...that is, as used to reduce the transduction from basket to all those annoying things that vibrate in the door.


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## psychotic (Jul 14, 2008)

JMachan said:


> I would love to hear from those with experience with clay for decoupling AS DISTINCT from just adding mass to anything that vibrates or as a gasket...that is, as used to reduce the transduction from basket to all those annoying things that vibrate in the door.


I *think* the decoupling was mentioned, as adding the mass of the clay right up against the speaker on either side of the baffle, as adding the mass directly around the speaker would cut down on the transduction of vibration through the rest of the mounting material (especially the steel on a door). I can see this helping just as much or more by placing the clay on the inside of the baffle, so it is right up against the metal behind the speaker, and even the screws would be going through the metal... essentially making the baffle into a piece of clay covered with steel, instead of steel with some clay around the outside. 

As far as actually using it for anything more than a gasket, like you mentioned without regards to just adding mass... I can only see that being done with a speaker that is angled upwards enough that the torque is low enough that the clay itself can hold and seal the speaker... 

Or using spacers where the screws need to mount and creating a build-up of clay that is slightly higher and between those spacers. The speaker would squeeze down on the clay to make an airtight seal, but basically its just acting as a thick gasket made of clay. I know the transduction would still travel through the spacers, but perhaps it would be less than the entire speaker up against the metal, with the "thick gasket" of clay being able to keep some of that transduction from reaching the door...

(maybe if using rubber spacers it could actually create a mounting surface that would help w/ transduction issues but still keep a air-tight seal? the only metal transfering the vibration direct from basket to door would then be the screws... unless you put another rubber spacer on the back with a T-nut or something similar to hold the speaker so no metal on metal contact would be made at all between the basket and the door, with a layer of rubber/clay as the mouning surface to help reduce transduction... at the same time it also sounds somewhat absurd =) but then again I have no real knowledge of the difference between the ammount of transduction through steel vs rubber and clay.)


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## JMachan (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for that thoughtful reply.

Part of the reason I ask is because when I think of decoupling...I think of the efforts folks in the sciences go through to avoid vibrations (e.g. electron microscopy). Mass is part of the equation, but there are also more elaborate devices involved...or even think of the orthodox home audiophiles with every component having layers of vibration deadening...

Of course, we don't want to completely negate vibration at the basket...just on the door. Those LAT things come to mind as a way to productively reduce vibration. They always have pairs of drivers moving in the opposite direction, actively negating vibration, while being productive. I think I read a post recently where someone bought the little ones from PartsExpress. I wonder how well those would behave as midbase drivers in doors...


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## JMachan (Jul 3, 2008)

Just added clay as my 1st step in my 2007 Saab 9-3 Aero doors. Removed the factory foam stuff...added about 1/2 lb clay around each speaker mount and in rolls behind all wiring (then mashed wiring into). I haven't deadened beyond this or sealed the large holes in the panel (yet). Even in this interim phase the vibrations are dramatically reduced and my sountstage has been is pulled higher as a result.

System details:
Alpine CDA-7995
Alpine PDX 4.100
Alpine PDX 1.600
Morel MW166 (low-pass @ ~300 Hz)
Infinity Kappa 32.9cf (high-pass @ ~300Hz)
MB Quart PWE-254 in sealed 0.5 cu.ft. (low-pass @ ~55Hz)


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## RZALECTA (Mar 2, 2009)

Expandable foam in a can for those hard to reach areas


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## Topless Stang (Nov 30, 2009)

You need both for a complete install


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## johnvroom (May 5, 2009)

To be honest I use both, I like the combo of duct seal (vice clay) and the damping sheets. If I had to choose one of the two I would stick with my Second Skin Damplifier. But the duct seal is a good band-aid where the damping sheets wont go. 

a rubber like material would be also be good for decoupling, I like to use 3M double sided tapes. But there are ready made products for doing this available (overkill, overkill pro) and others as well, experimentation is in order to solve each unique problem


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## dkdub (Nov 25, 2009)

I like both.


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## bsully1850 (Apr 6, 2008)

Try not to use it myself.


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## Ram4ever (Oct 21, 2009)

Thanks for the interesting thread! 

This clay might just be of some additional benefit in my upcoming wrestling match with my huge hollow van doors - all 6 of them! On the larger surfaces I'm intending to use either Damplifier Pro or even SPL tiles if necessary, but the bottom of the door cavities is still a nagging concern to me. 

Given it's properties clay might very well be a great option to deal with that area. It's certainly inexpensive enough to experiment with, is easily removable with no great loss if I don't like it, it's fully reusable elsewhere, and the potential upside is big. 

This thread has got me thinking that If I could bridge the entire bottom area between the inner and outer door skins to maybe several inches it could very well have some very beneficial effects, seriously upsetting the resonances and diaphragmatic coupling between the inner and outer panels. The temptation to try this is nearly irresistible....

I can't use a damper which might liquefy and flow, because van doors are designed with drains to eliminate condensation and any leakage past the window seals - those drains can't be plugged or the rust monster will quickly rear it's head... But I could easily mold the clay around the drains and it would stay where it belongs. I could even slope the clay towards the drains.

I'm liking this idea enough I'm going say both - Sound Deadening and Clay. If you've got the need at least...

Regards


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## huuplah (Jan 25, 2010)

i don't know how messy it is, but ill do this: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-tutorials/27-simple-cheap-effective-door-treatments.html


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## bikethis (Oct 18, 2009)

Correct me if i'm wrong (please!), but from what I've read, the clay is used primarily as a "speaker gasket" (seal speaker against mounting panel) and to mass load the speaker mounting location (primarily). Resonance should be "sound deadened" (dampened) with a constrained load damper material covering some or all (depending on the cld quality) of the sheet metal surfaces. I suppose the rattling between trim panels and sheet metal could be "sound deadened" (de-coupled) with clay, but why not closed cell foam? 

My solution to the gasket/mass-loading (and to avoid the possibility of an oily mess in a few years), was to use extruded butyl 'rope', as gasket between the mounting ring/spacer/speaker, and then surround the entire mount with one pound of lead. The lead i found was in one pound coils in the fishing weights section of WalMart, for a couple dollars.

I laid down butyl, bent the lead into a ring around the speaker mount and pressed it into the butyl. After that ring was encased in another layer of butyl, there was not enough lead for another complete ring, so I cut it in half, so it would at least be symmetrical, and encased that again.

From what Don (sounddeadenershowdown.com) says, this stuff will be more inert than clay, and with lead in it, more dense (mass to volume ratio-wise).

If you see any flaws in my logic, idea, or implementation, please let me know. If you could provide an explaination that would be ideal.

Thanks!


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## usmcsoldriver (Aug 13, 2007)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-tutorials/27-simple-cheap-effective-door-treatments.html


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## GibTG (Mar 11, 2010)

Where is a popular place to buy this stuff if some installers use so much of it?


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