# Morel Ultimo 12 vs Jbl Gti 12 How do they compare?



## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

Was wandering if these subs compare in sq or does the ultimo blow it away a lil or alot?


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

havent heard the ultimo but i've owned/heard some of the best subs available and it's hard to imagine one that would blow away a WGT.i


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

There's a guy on the PG Phorum that had the Ultimo. I'll try to direct him here.


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

bump for this thread i know it has not been answered yet and would like to know some more info on it. I am still debating on how its going to sound vs each other.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

I've heard ALOT of dissapointment involved with the Ultimo. Never heard anyone dissapointed with the JBL....haven't heard either sub, though.


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

aworldcollision said:


> I've heard ALOT of dissapointment involved with the Ultimo. Never heard anyone dissapointed with the JBL....haven't heard either sub, though.


could you be a lil more specific with the morel problems ?


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

trunks9_us said:


> could you be a lil more specific with the morel problems ?


no, I really can't. I haven't heard them. I run Morels and really wanted to use the Ultimo but when the salesman says "It is a great sub if you don't want to hear any bass" it's enough for me. I honetly bet that it is a tremendous sub but you'll need buckets of power. The 5.1" voice coil needs to be plugged directly into a wall outlet to gewt the power needed. 

I wish I could help more, but it seems the over-all impression of the Ultimo is that it is too inefficient, especially at four ohms, to get the sound most people want with the power most people have.


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

aww i c wat your saying a lil bit. I would hope to hear some more reviews on both subs and comparisions. Here's the deal i have 3 w12gti subs alrdy. I could use them in my sq sub setup or but the morel ultimo 2 12's in a sq setup either way there both great subs.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

do you have the ultimos?

and 3 12's or 2 12 ultimo's.....

define: sq


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

member jayhawkblk has used the Ultimo, Esostar 12, Rainbow Profi Vanadium , ARC Flatline etc...perhaps he can give you some user/application feedback.


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## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

I haven't heard the Ultimo, and I'm as big a Morel fan as they come but I don't think it would rank up there as an ultimate SQ sub. 

Just by looking at the specs, I'm not feeling it too much. It might be a bottom end monster which some people like. 

Truthfully I'd rather have their Elate 9s/10s ported, or Dyn MW182/MW190 sealed/IB for SQ.


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

FG79 said:


> I haven't heard the Ultimo, and I'm as big a Morel fan as they come but I don't think it would rank up there as an ultimate SQ sub.


Well, it sounds as though you haven't read the following, because they ALL rate it at the top of the SQ ladder: 

http://www.caraudiomag.com/reviews/caep_0802_morel_ultimo_12/index.html

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=269

From Australia's InCar Magazine: 
“The Ultimo is a design not seen before in car audio. Everything, from its carbon composite cone (with 5mm sunken strengthening ridge), to its massive 5.1 inch voice coil, is the ultimate in SQ subwoofer design… When powered via a serious amplifier (the voice coil is rated at 1000 watts continuous) the subwoofer exerts superb control over everything south of one hundred Hertz. It can go quite loud when pushed too, but the Ultimo is primarily designed to produce low frequencies with an accuracy and fidelity not heard before. Audition one and you’ll discover why it’s our sound quality subwoofer of the year.”


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## SPEEDBUILT (Jan 21, 2008)

I read that it needs at least 1000 watts @ 4ohms


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

trunks9_us said:


> Was wandering if these subs compare in sq or does the ultimo blow it away a lil or alot?


You are kidding, right? Morel couldn't dream of designing something as advanced as the JBL WGTi.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

trunks9_us said:


> aww i c wat your saying a lil bit. I would hope to hear some more reviews on both subs and comparisions. Here's the deal i have 3 w12gti subs alrdy. I could use them in my sq sub setup or but the morel ultimo 2 12's in a sq setup either way there both great subs.


SPL FTW


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## JeremyC (Dec 20, 2007)

aworldcollision said:


> I run Morels and really wanted to use the Ultimo but when the salesman says "It is a great sub if you don't want to hear any bass" it's enough for me. I honetly bet that it is a tremendous sub but you'll need buckets of power. The 5.1" voice coil needs to be plugged directly into a wall outlet to gewt the power needed.
> 
> I wish I could help more, but it seems the over-all impression of the Ultimo is that it is too inefficient, especially at four ohms, to get the sound most people want with the power most people have.


No at all true. I'm running 2 ultimo 12s off of 2 genesis dual monos (500 rms a sub) They sound amazing, very detailed, and I even hit a 134.5 with a SQ tune (only 5db of gain overlap), in an over damped car. 

Yes you can feed them a ton of power, but its not needed to get them loud. Hell I'm actually running 3db of cut so they will blend better with my elate mids. 

As for SQ, I love them. Very detailed, and musical subs. They remind me alot of my old boston pro 12.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

JeremyC said:


> No at all true. I'm running 2 ultimo 12s off of 2 genesis dual monos (500 rms a sub) They sound amazing, very detailed, and I even hit a 134.5 with a SQ tune (only 5db of gain overlap), in an over damped car.
> 
> Yes you can feed them a ton of power, but its not needed to get them loud. Hell I'm actually running 3db of cut so they will blend better with my elate mids.
> 
> As for SQ, I love them. Very detailed, and musical subs. They remind me alot of my old boston pro 12.


does it NEED two of them? Maybe that is key to the discussion.


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## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

Buzzman said:


> Well, it sounds as though you haven't read the following, because they ALL rate it at the top of the SQ ladder:
> 
> http://www.caraudiomag.com/reviews/caep_0802_morel_ultimo_12/index.html
> 
> ...


Haha, OH PLEASE with the reviews....

There are reviews out there that swear the JL W7 is the greatest sub since sliced bread. And plenty of Stereophile reviews that swear a few six figure speaker systems are the greatest of all time. Yet, in the real world they've been anything BUT that to me, IMHO. 

I'm not going to say that the Ultimo is subpar, but just based on speculation I'd be doubtful to its quality.


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

FG79 said:


> Haha, OH PLEASE with the reviews....
> 
> There are reviews out there that swear the JL W7 is the greatest sub since sliced bread. And plenty of Stereophile reviews that swear a few six figure speaker systems are the greatest of all time. Yet, in the real world they've been anything BUT that to me, IMHO.
> 
> I'm not going to say that the Ultimo is subpar, but just based on speculation I'd be doubtful to its quality.


yea i agree i think i will just keep my jbl gti's and use all 3 of them in my car for my sql setup that way i can run a 4 ohm load.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

trunks9_us said:


> yea i agree i think i will just keep my jbl gti's and use all 3 of them in my car for my sql setup that way i can run a 4 ohm load.


all 3 for your SQL set-up


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

aworldcollision said:


> all 3 for your SQL set-up


whats so bad about using 3 subs for a sql setup?


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

define sq?


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

aworldcollision said:


> define sq?


to me sq is somthign that sounds good in tune and doesnt distort but thats the define sq for me i like loudness and if it sounds good its sql to me.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

trunks9_us said:


> whats so bad about using 3 subs for a sql setup?


Nothing at all... properly tuned and integrated, they should work great.

Besides, it's your system anyway, right?


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

I would run Morels over JBL anyday, JBL gets no play from me


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

BeatsDownLow said:


> I would run Morels over JBL anyday, JBL gets no play from me


could you explain your supporting decision with supporting details.


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## guitarsail (Oct 12, 2007)

BeatsDownLow said:


> I would run Morels over JBL anyday, JBL gets no play from me


Ditto on some explanation...Lets see...what was Gary Biggs running winning all those Competitions?...what manufacturer is on more world concert tours than any other brand combined?....just curious...
and to the OP run the GTI's...I can't comment directly on the Ultimo's..not many people have them....have heard them... but you would...by spec...need a bucket of power for them...not that the GTI's wouldnt...BUT You already have the GTI's...they are GREAT speakers...I have one...run those. SQL for the win!!!!


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

kevin k. said:


> Nothing at all... properly tuned and integrated, they should work great.
> 
> Besides, it's your system anyway, right?


if you were gonna "properly tune your system" that is the key your system....but I have a feeling if you knew what properly tuned sounded like you may feel otherwise. Point being, "properly" could be done (with an excessive amount of overkill) with just two...or even one. my .02 it is your truck and my .02 may be worth less than a penny to you. I wouldn't blame you.


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## guitarsail (Oct 12, 2007)

aworldcollision said:


> if you were gonna "properly tune your system" that is the key your system....but I have a feeling if you knew what properly tuned sounded like you may feel otherwise. Point being, "properly" could be done (with an excessive amount of overkill) with just two...or even one. my .02 it is your truck and my .02 may be worth less than a penny to you. I wouldn't blame you.


Massive headroom and the ability to turn it down FTW!!!!


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## JeremyC (Dec 20, 2007)

I find it funny how I hear time and time again how you need SO much power to run ultimos, and get them to sound good. 

If that was the case then wouldn't turning down the radio cause them to sound like crap. 

Hmmmm doesn't happen that way in my car. 

As for the guy that asked if I need 2, I'm running 3db of cut. I even said that in my last post. 
To gain 3 db you need to double your cone area, or power. 

SO, that would mean no, I don't need them both.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

aworldcollision said:


> if you were gonna "properly tune your system" that is the key your system....but I have a feeling if you knew what properly tuned sounded like you may feel otherwise.


Who is the "you" that you're addressing here?

And, whether it is myself or trunks, what makes you think that *you* know better what sq, sql, or "properly tuned" is...? Have you heard his system? Or mine?

What's with the "I know better" attitude anyway? Aren't you the one posting all these "how to?" or "what to do?" or "which to choose?" threads and, yet, now you're over here on this thread pontificating and sitting in judgement of equipment and equipment choices that, by your own admission, you have no personal experience with...?! 



aworldcollision said:


> Point being, "properly" could be done (with an excessive amount of overkill) with just two...or even one.


About as easily as it can be done with three subs. So, your point is rather pointless. If you disagree with with a system choice, just say so... but, please don't try and dress it up to appear that you're right and the other person is wrong. At least not until you actually have the knowledge to back it up.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Geez...why does everything have to be a fight?


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

More drivers=less excursion for a given output=lower distortion=win


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

aworldcollision said:


> if you were gonna "properly tune your system" that is the key your system....but I have a feeling if you knew what properly tuned sounded like you may feel otherwise. Point being, "properly" could be done (with an excessive amount of overkill) with just two...or even one. *my .02 it is your truck and my .02 may be worth less than a penny to you. I wouldn't blame you*.


note the bold. it is bolded because it is true. I know it's true because I wrote it. and I really wouldn't blame him....which is why I wrote that.



kevin k. said:


> Who is the "you" that you're addressing here?
> 
> And, whether it is myself or trunks, what makes you think that *you* know better what sq, sql, or "properly tuned" is...? Have you heard his system? Or mine?
> 
> ...



FOA, using the word pontificate will get you nowhere. In fact, I think it detracts points. So you're already losing. Second, I'm the guy that quotes the whole post. Expecially the part that suggests that my .02 is probably worth less than his .02. 

Let's ask the OP. OP, ever heard a system that has been tuned to a basically linear response in which the artist appears to be playing on your dashboard? I gathered by context clues that you had not. The reason why this topic is so important is becasue of the enormous amount of time it took FOR ME to follow one direction, hear a "properly tuned system" and find out that I was in search of the wrong sound. Coupled with the fact that this guy is suggesting getting rid of subs to buy a couple more $500-$800 subs, it tells me one of two things. A. I'm answering his question wrong. Based on my experiences, the path in which he is floolowing may be correct for him, but disqualifies me as someone who can advise.
B. It makes me him 4 months ago. Looking for a fix but not sure what it is. Here you are, yet another defender of injustice, and jahven't bothered to truely ascertain his goal which is what I've been trying to get from him.

So the question is: what purpose are you trying to serve by asking me these questions. Me asking these questions to him has a clear purpose, in my mind, and that is to help a newbie out in the only way I know how. To spot mistakes I've made in the past and help someone fix them before it costs him 2 X $800. I am having a hard time belieiving the bass will be perceived from the front with that set-up. That's not to say that is wrong, but that it is not the goal I've had experience dealing with. Does that mean that I simply fail to reply? No, becuase the #1 lesson I learned was that I didn't know what sound I should have been looking for.....especially when I had two 12's in a bandpass enclosure.

To the OP, I am here to help. Don't worry. Everytime one of the defenders of injustice are here to thwart your progress, justice shall prevail.

As far as an I know better attitude....I'm proud. Nobody on DIYMA ever acted like I knew ****, which is the way I figured it should be, I must have been promoted. I know that someone that REALLY wanted to sell me an Ultimo wouldn't do it because it was dissapointing. I know that and that's what I said I knew. 

Lastly, half of all the threads I start is to have engaging conversations. I learn more by being able to banter back and forth. I've made it extremely clear that I'm on a war path of learning. Many of my subjects may be easy for all but I'm still figuring them out. I attempt to help every single person on this forum who I have the knowledge or ability to help. Every single one of them. So then, why did you jump in to defend him from me, rather than attempt a clarification on the questions he asked? Different ways of helping I guess. I help as best I can, though admittedly a smart-ass, and you sit back tell someone that they are wrong. Hmmm...are you in government?


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Geez...why does everything have to be a fight?


I dunno. It's hard to help. Look around, guys. How many times have you seen a thread hanging for a while, someone finally tries to help and someone jumps in to correct their grammar.....I was just trying to help.


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

well i dont think i could go wrong with either subs its just i have the gti's i have heard them in a sealed enclosure while there very loud i feel as if i am missing some sound and it might just be the fact i like ported more or is it the sub? I have run a treo ssx in a ported box vs a jbl gti sub in a sealed box while the jbl sound better the treo still has that lower output bass which i like but i do think the jbl is capable but just have to put it into a ported box i have one but i am waiting on my new amp and carpet to test it out to see if its the subs or something else. All in all i like the jbl gti's i want loud and sq which is why my dealer pointed these over to me over the morel ultimos in the past but i just wanted some input on what ppl thought about them from bother sides of how ran both of them. I have also ran the ts-w12prs sub in the same ported box as the treo ssx but the treo ssx sounds better same amp same box same ohm load. I couldnt test the gti due to its mounting depth.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

have you tried all your options on winisd?


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

aworldcollision said:


> have you tried all your options on winisd?


i still dont know how to use winisd sry...


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

the good news is i alrdy have a ported box tuned for 30-32 hz on a thread i made a while back the gtis can fit in there i had to use a jig saw to make the mounting hole a lil bit bigger the 2 subs finally fit in the hole is kinda to big my friend says when we carpet it the carpet will make the air not go through. The mounting holes are just a tad to big but subs fit in after turning it crooked in there. Any pointers on fixing the air leaks by the mounting holes i should be getting my carpet in by friday.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

trunks9_us said:


> i still dont know how to use winisd sry...


don't be. I don't know either. When I had problems with my sub (Focal) I experimented with every position, then every box and ended on a sealed. There's just no way of telling as it is all personal preference at this point. (my sub was designed for sealed so I was kind of forced) It took a long time and in the end, it was tuning and positioning that did it all for me. Good luck. You got some awesome gear, there. I never got a chance to hear the CK's in action but they sure look purdy.


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

aworldcollision said:


> don't be. I don't know either. When I had problems with my sub (Focal) I experimented with every position, then every box and ended on a sealed. There's just no way of telling as it is all personal preference at this point. (my sub was designed for sealed so I was kind of forced) It took a long time and in the end, it was tuning and positioning that did it all for me. Good luck. You got some awesome gear, there. I never got a chance to hear the CK's in action but they sure look purdy.


well i dont have my gear with me much any more my echo is with my mom now my speakers are in there but my subs aren't i am waiting on my new amp to come in to try it out on the box its a sundown 1500d and its going in my new car i got my 2009 corolls s. I am planning on transfering all my stuff over to my corolla eventually when i get time but my mom doesnt like subs lol go figure. thats why i was asking about the ultimos if i should go with the ultimos in the corolla or the gtis which i alrdy have. That also make me wander if i should get the morel supremo set or stick with my zapco ck16.2 set i have heard good reviews on the supremo but i know my zapcos sound awsome as well.


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

aworldcollision said:


> don't be. I don't know either.


you mean if someone doesn't know winisd, it's a good idea not to care to know it? good advice.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

trunks9_us said:


> i still dont know how to use winisd *sry*...


is sry e-slang for sorry? Cuz if it is, see the following post. don't be sorry (to me) I don't know it either.



aworldcollision said:


> don't be. I don't know either. When I had problems with my sub (Focal) I experimented with every position, then every box and ended on a sealed. There's just no way of telling as it is all personal preference at this point. (my sub was designed for sealed so I was kind of forced) It took a long time and in the end, it was tuning and positioning that did it all for me. Good luck. You got some awesome gear, there. I never got a chance to hear the CK's in action but they sure look purdy.





yermolovd said:


> you mean if someone doesn't know winisd, it's a good idea not to care to know it? good advice.


and since I don't know it, I'll not try and teach it.


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

aworldcollision said:


> is sry e-slang for sorry? Cuz if it is, see the following post. don't be sorry (to me) I don't know it either.


i see. i didn't notice a 3 letter word, ok must be my post lunch nap. thanks for your clear explanation.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

still no valid responses from the heroes. All I've heard is praises for thos subs. Expiriment. You may find they are great. I wouldn't think about the ultimo's at all anymore until I knew for sure they were what I wanted...and there's lots out there for cheaper. Soon, a DOI will help out with winisd and get you squared away with smoothing out the sound. I wish you the best.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

That's it! Back to the lounge Aworldcollision. You're causing too much trouble in here. ROFL!!

To the OP, I would say that since you already have the WGTi's then use them. I've had a couple of chances to hear WGTi's used in different installs, both ported and sealed. I've been nothing but impressed by them. So unless you are just being eaten alive by the "what if" bug, I think that it would be hard to justify the money it will cost to buy 2 Ultimo 12's. But I'll be honest and tell you that I haven't heard the Ultimo so I can't say if it is or isn't better than the WGTi. I'm just a big believe in the old cliche that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Take it for what it's worth, and best of luck in your decision.

Zach


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

yermolovd said:


> i see. i didn't notice a 3 letter word, ok must be my post lunch nap. thanks for your clear explanation.


if it weren't for an attempt at an earlier e-slap (one that I was victorious in I might add) I wouldn't have been so lippy about it, either. so...have a great night all.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Geez...why does everything have to be a fight?


welcome to DIYmobileaudio Andy


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

FG79 said:


> Haha, OH PLEASE with the reviews....
> 
> There are reviews out there that swear the JL W7 is the greatest sub since sliced bread. And plenty of Stereophile reviews that swear a few six figure speaker systems are the greatest of all time. Yet, in the real world they've been anything BUT that to me, IMHO.
> 
> I'm not going to say that the Ultimo is subpar, but just based on speculation I'd be doubtful to its quality.


You can't be serious. How can you express a legitimate opinion about the sound quality of a particular component when you yourself have not listened to the component? What's the point of making a prognostication based on "speculation." If you haven't heard the woofer, or the speakers that you claim the Stereophile reviewers have somehow misheard, how can you disagree with or even doubt the reviewer's conclusion?! 

The poster I responded to questioned whether the Ultimo was an SQ woofer. I simply pointed out that there were reviewers who have heard it and felt it to be the best, or among the best woofers they had heard with respect to SQ.


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

Oh no, it's The Great Revisionist My Heart Is Pure And I Was Only Trying To Help So Let's Throw A WHOLE Bunch Of Words At It Reply... 



aworldcollision said:


> note the bold. it is bolded because it is true. I know it's true because I wrote it. and I really wouldn't blame him....which is why I wrote that.


It may be true that you wrote it, but it is not necessarily true *because* you wrote it.  




aworldcollision said:


> FOA, using the word pontificate will get you nowhere. In fact, I think it detracts points. So you're already losing. Second, I'm the guy that quotes the whole post. Expecially the part that suggests that my .02 is probably worth less than his .02.


Hmmm... let's see. Fact of the matter is you assumed the OP had not heard or was capable of a finely tuned system... correct? A little pompous, if you ask me. You say you arrived at this conclusion via contextual clues... if you say so. You also call into question the use of more than one or two subs... correct? A little dogmatic, perhaps?

Pompously dogmatic = pontificate. 



aworldcollision said:


> Let's ask the OP.


Great idea... somewhat after the fact, though. But, wait, didn't you kinda sorta already do that when you "contextually discerned" (insert Theremin sound here) his lack of experience?  



aworldcollision said:


> OP, ever heard a system that has been tuned to a basically linear response in which the artist appears to be playing on your dashboard?


Great question... again, after the fact. Why are you only now getting around to asking it in your reply to me?  



aworldcollision said:


> I gathered by context clues that you had not.


Just what exactly were these "context clues" that betrayed the OP's lack of ever having heard "a basically linear response in which the artist appears to be playing on your dashboard?"  No, seriously, I mean what gave it away?!  How you managed to derive all that is beyond reason, so please don't insult my and the other readers' intelligence. 



aworldcollision said:


> The reason why this topic is so important is becasue of the enormous amount of time it took FOR ME to follow one direction, hear a "properly tuned system" and find out that I was in search of the wrong sound.


Fair enough. 




aworldcollision said:


> Coupled with the fact that this guy is suggesting getting rid of subs to buy a couple more $500-$800 subs, it tells me one of two things. A. I'm answering his question wrong. Based on my experiences, the path in which he is floolowing may be correct for him, but disqualifies me as someone who can advise.
> B. It makes me him 4 months ago. Looking for a fix but not sure what it is. Here you are, yet another defender of injustice, and jahven't bothered to truely ascertain his goal which is what I've been trying to get from him.


Please spare me the faux altruism. Your "all three for a SQL setup " post was sufficient to dispel the notion of your being the Father Teresa of Audiodom. 




aworldcollision said:


> So the question is: what purpose are you trying to serve by asking me these questions.


You mean the questions like "why are you judging a setup you haven't even heard?", "why are you dismissing a system choice you haven't tried?", and "why are you diminishing someone's abilities without even knowing them?"... those questions? Oh gosh, I don't know... call me crazy. 




aworldcollision said:


> Me asking these questions to him has a clear purpose, in my mind, and that is to help a newbie out in the only way I know how. To spot mistakes I've made in the past and help someone fix them before it costs him 2 X $800. I am having a hard time belieiving the bass will be perceived from the front with that set-up. That's not to say that is wrong, but that it is not the goal I've had experience dealing with. Does that mean that I simply fail to reply? No, becuase the #1 lesson I learned was that I didn't know what sound I should have been looking for.....especially when I had two 12's in a bandpass enclosure.


This is just more of the same, after-the-fact, let's-throw-in-a-whole-lot-of-I-was-really-just-trying-to-help verbose filler that you never mentioned to the OP in the first place.




aworldcollision said:


> To the OP, I am here to help. Don't worry. Everytime one of the defenders of injustice are here to thwart your progress, justice shall prevail.


I don't know whether to put you up for Super Hero status or to ask you for The Cross back because we need the wood. 



aworldcollision said:


> As far as an I know better attitude....I'm proud. Nobody on DIYMA ever acted like I knew ****, which is the way I figured it should be, I must have been promoted. I know that someone that REALLY wanted to sell me an Ultimo wouldn't do it because it was dissapointing. I know that and that's what I said I knew.


Yes, and an "I know better" attitude will get you posts just like this... and not for, at least as far as I'm concerned, malicious reasons, either. It's for the reason that you and, admittedly in many facets of this hobby, I do *not* know better. The sooner you realize or are at least willing to consider the possibility that what you don't know is greater than what you do know, the sooner you can be of perhaps even more help.



aworldcollision said:


> Lastly, half of all the threads I start is to have engaging conversations. I learn more by being able to banter back and forth.


Point taken.  



aworldcollision said:


> I've made it extremely clear that I'm on a war path of learning. Many of my subjects may be easy for all but I'm still figuring them out. I attempt to help every single person on this forum who I have the knowledge or ability to help. Every single one of them. So then, why did you jump in to defend him from me, rather than attempt a clarification on the questions he asked?


If you'll re-read, you'll see that I only entered this thread when the OP was asking what was "wrong" with a three sub setup. Correct? Nothing to do with you. Not sure why you think it was. I didn't ask for a clarification of the question he asked because it was the one I answered and I didn't need one. I addressed you only after you quoted me and called into question my or the OP's... that's still unclear... tuning abilities / experience.



aworldcollsion said:


> Different ways of helping I guess. I help as best I can, though admittedly a smart-ass, and you sit back tell someone that they are wrong. Hmmm...are you in government?


- Am I in government? No, I am not in government.

- You have nineteen questions remaining...


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

thats the biggest multiquote ever!


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

trunks9_us said:


> I have run a treo ssx in a ported box vs a jbl gti sub in a sealed box while the jbl sound better the treo still has that lower output bass which i like but i do think the jbl is capable


There is something wrong with your box or tuning then, the JBL is basically one of the best low end subs around, they really don't get much better. What you may find is you have a rise in your response higher up which is what your level maching off making it sound like it's lacking low end, which it isn't, it's just that the hump in the rsponse makes it appear that way. I had mine on the RTA and there was about a 4-5db hump at 40-50hz, EQ that out and then you go flat to 20hz in my case.

Don't worry about WINISD with the JBL it doesn't model correctly, 4cuft sealed and about 9cuft ported (the 15") is what winish says, and anyone who owns one will tell you that there is no way they require that large a box, I've got 1.5cuft and as I already stated, bit of EQ and flat to 20hz.


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## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

I'd take the GTI personally. While things like midbass drivers have to make a very delicate balance between things cone materials (play at the point of cone breakup, while subs don't), the subwoofer is a mechanical device. Put a good motor and suspension on it, rock out. 

The JBL has the more efficient motor topology, but the biggest thing to note is the advantage thermally and in regard to inductance. For SQ use especially, you're going to mostly stay well within the linear limits of the motor and suspension, the inductance, however, can vary a lot dependant on motor design.

Subjective reviews I could care less about. If they designed an enclosure to their specific vehicle, tuned the driver, etc, maybe it'd have some credibility. But when Eric Holdaway screws together a generic manufacturer recommended box, throws it in his Super Duty for a test session with nothing else done, I could give a rat's ass less whether he walked away impressed or disappointed. Glad we can all use his specific vehicle as a reference. Honestly subjectivism is the culprit for 99% of all the snake oil out there in this hobby and it's also the reason manufacturers have become stagnant because in the end "trust your ears" tells the manufacturer "allocate resources to marketing".

Notice how CA&E has all of a sudden sped up, we've got all these new drivers being tested and and all of a sudden we've progressed to having a new "best ever" every month. Personally I think all this is simply due to the fact that the car audio industry is dying and in need of a spark, and this is CA&E's attempt to create one for whoever is willing to pay for it.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

kevin k. said:


> Oh no, it's The Great Revisionist My Heart Is Pure And I Was Only Trying To Help So Let's Throw A WHOLE Bunch Of Words At It Reply...
> 
> 
> It may be true that you wrote it, but it is not necessarily true *because* you wrote it.
> ...


I could do this with you (I'm pretty sure you know that). In the end, I don't think it would be worth it. You win.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

aworldcollision said:


> I could do this with you (I'm pretty sure you know that). In the end, I don't think it would be worth it. You win.


this is probably not true. I'm going to try


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

aworldcollision said:


> this is probably not true. I'm going to try


Please don't. Just let the thread die in peace.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

^^^^^


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

trunks9_us said:


> to me sq is somthign that sounds good in tune and doesnt distort but thats the define sq for me i like loudness and if it sounds good its sql to me.


 Sounds like you answered your own question. Go with what sounds good to you!

Let's get real for a second here. What SQ tuner do you know that just drops subs in a box and hopes for the best? The subbass has to be tuned many times just like all the other drivers. Right now you have some very capable equipment. Are you looking to make changes to please yourself or are you hoping to impress judges in the lanes?

Right now, you have some very nice equipment. Did you know there was a SQ World Champion Toyota Echo that ran a JBL GTO 8" sub on the dash, GTO 12" subs in the rear for SPL, JBL Power Series amps, SEAS Lotus components? So you see, it is possible to sound good using lower line amps and subs. Your GTi subs are more than capable and are the BEST that JBL has to offer. These are low distortion, low Qtc subs....Sound like you might be bored with your setup???????$1600 for two subs? F-that! 

For $1600, I would get a couple of 15WGti's a couple of 8" midbasses, and some KICK ASS mids and tweets(These is where i would spend the dough!) powered by and added to all that beautiful Zapco power you have and tune the SH_T out of the system and not look back!

There you have it!


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

WLDock said:


> Sounds like you answered your own question. Go with what sounds good to you!
> 
> Let's get real for a second here. What SQ tuner do you know that just drops subs in a box and hopes for the best? The subbass has to be tuned many times just like all the other drivers. Right now you have some very capable equipment. Are you looking to make changes to please yourself or are you hoping to impress judges in the lanes?
> 
> ...


I am tuning this for myself not for any judges so yes in terms of speaking your right you dont have to have the best equipment to sound the best.


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