# New Focal K2 KRX3 165 Blown and Lessons Learned Buying Online.



## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

New Focal K2 KRX3 165 Blown and Lessons Learned Buying Online.

I am a car audio newbie. I bought a set of Focal KRX3 165 speakers back in August from Amazon in the hopes of building a sweet set up for my new car.

Well, fast forward to about two weeks ago we finally got the custom door panels done and powered the speakers up for the first time using only my factory stereo system in my 2015 SRT Challenger.

And at first they sounded good. Nice punch and everything... then they developed a rattle/scratching sound in both 6.5" woofers.

The Authorized Focal dealer where I was having my custom work done and also bought a focal 900.6, focal 900.1, focal 33kx and audison bit one couldn't do much because I bought the components from a non-authorized dealer on amazon.

I contacted the store where I bought them has indicated they will give me a store credit or something, we are still going back and forth in emails.

I contacted focal (orca?) and ask them for help, and they gave me $100 off the price of buying two new woofers and that's about it... so I'm still looking at $500 to fix a factory defect.

Yeah, i know.. i should have bought them from an authorized dealer and it would all be easily replaced. But I buy prolly over $10,000 a year off Amazon/newegg.com and if i buy a TV or computer from amazon and it is defective in 60 days I'm pretty sure they wouldn't just tell me me out of luck.

I'm sure many people who buy a laptop, receiver, speakers or whatever on amazon would expect that the manufacturer would replace or fix a defective model only a few months of purchase... but somehow I was supposed to know that if i buy a set of speakers on amazon that I'm on my own?

I was hoping that because I was using an authorized dealer and the speakers were verified using the serial numbers to not be counterfeits that I could at least get a warranty replacement... Its not like I bought them from a guy off craigslist, hooked them up myself, blew them and was asking for new ones... but anyway.. lesson learned... and probably wont buy anything from Focal again.

Im sure many of you will say this is my fault and I should have checked a Focal website or whatever before spending $2000 on this set up... and maybe it is.

But I don't feel like I was taken care of as a valued customer and will start looking into replacing these items with others in the spring after my supercharger gets put on.

Here is a quick video I made that shows how sometimes the woofers have bad noise and other times it is almost non-existent. Again, this is using the factory Harmon Karden amp in the Challenger...

the first few seconds are from yesterday and the second part was from a few minutes ago.... sometimes they crack.. sometimes they dont as much... I dunno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HLtmkKGhqg


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## masse1369 (Sep 2, 2005)

I would contact Amazon. Call them directly. They usually take care of things like this.


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## What? (Jun 5, 2008)

Most legit car audio gear is not authorized to sell on amazon, ebay, or any other website. Only shady companies break their dealer agreement and sell through amazon. Most legit car audio companies have their internet purchase policy posted on their site. Make amazon or the shady transhipper take care of it for you or buy authorized. Focal is not the problem.


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## lurch (Jan 20, 2014)

good grief !!
just watched the vid .... how much power were you sending to them and were you
using a high pass filter ??


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

What? said:


> Focal is not the problem.


Didn't really say they were... just said I didn't feel valued as a customer.

Again, If i bought a $1500-$2000 TV, computer, Home receiver, baby swing, ect off amazon I would not expect the average consumer to realize that if it just stopped working after 45 days that your just **** out of luck because you didn't buy it from a list of venders on their website.

My product has a valid serial number, I have a valid receipt... i would hope that their warranty should apply to me... especially after being installed at a authorized dealer.

They simply feel otherwise... that's their policy I guess.

And Lurch... I was only powering the Focals with my factory sound system. Here is the factory 6x9 I took out that I replaced with the Focal 6.5". I couldn't imagine more than 20-30-50 watts are going to it.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

It sounds like you brought counterfeit. No way in hell factory radio will fry genuine krx2. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Yeah I watched the video, how much power are you sending to your midbass?? It's flexing like a 12", I'm familiar with this driver... it's a stout 6.5". It sounds like it's has been bottomed out pretty severely and the suspension has given way.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

That driver wouldn't flex that much off of stock power.


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

angrybot said:


> But speakers aren't really able to muster up that kind of protection, the woofers will bleat and flap if you turn the bass controls to the max. If you look at your vid, you obviously think that you are supposed to be able to make them cones dance, monkey....


Angrybot, the first clip in that video the speakers are barely playing at a talking level. that's why the woofer was barely moving and it still had a helluva crack. The second ten seconds are from later in the day when the speaker wasn't cracking and i turned it up louder just to see if the woofer would crack as it was before if you gave it more power.
*
The factory Harmon Kardon system has crossovers and stuff built into it to protect that cheap factory woofer i shown above... I cant imagine the factory stereo puts out power at frequencies that the OEM speaker can handle that my Focal 6.5" could not.*

When purchasing my products I was told by Focal that the 900.6 (150x6) would be a great choice to use with this three way set up... but it seems as though you are saying they shouldn't even be able to handle factory head unit power.



Victor_inox said:


> It sounds like you brought counterfeit. No way in hell factory radio will fry genuine krx2.


They are not counterfeits. The serial numbers on the surround of the woofers checks out. It was verified by FocalUSA out of Cali when I emailed them and also through the authorized dealer who installed them when they checked with their local Orca rep for replacements.

Also, it was a KRX3 not KRX2... it is the version with the seperate woofer, mid and tweeter.

here is a shot of my mids and tweeter (_which will probably be replaced after my supercharger installation in Feb due to their customer service_.)... which also have not even been hooked up yet. I am waiting for the trunk build with the 33kx to be done to get everything wired up to hook up the audison to it all.... thats why the mids and tweeters arent hooked up and the woofers are only being powered by the factory head unit.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Doc Fluty said:


> Angrybot, the first clip in that video the speakers are barely playing at a talking level. that's why the woofer was barely moving and it still had a helluva crack. The second ten seconds are from later in the day when the speaker wasn't cracking and i turned it up louder just to see if the woofer would crack if you gave it more power.
> 
> The factory Harmon Kardon system has crossovers and stuff built into it to protect that cheap factory woofer i shown above... I cant imagine the facotry stereo puts out power at frequencies that the OEM speaker can handle that my Focal 6.5" could not.
> 
> ...



demand refund from seller then. or chargeback your CC.


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> demand refund from seller then. or chargeback your CC.


I actually have been in contact with them and they have offered to give me a store credit. I told them I wasn't interested in that because of the fact of "non-authorized dealer" and any of their other stuff wouldn't be warrantied either. They told me to wait a few days and they are contacting focal to see what kind of replacement they can do.

At first they offered to fix it, but since they don't have a brick and mortar store nor a real website I was leery of that. I just wanted new woofers.

That's why I reached out to Focal directly to see if they would help me and just treat me like a normal customer seeing how I bought a bunch of other stuff and had all the work done at an authorized dealer. 

But they said nope, and are making me buy a whole new set.... Which I WOULDNT do if I didn't already have my a-pillars done. I would take that $500-600 and go buy some Hybrid Audio or something else.. but since that stuff is done I will wait to replace it until spring when the other mods I have planed for my sema build are completed.

So now I am waiting on emails to figure out what to do next and driving around everyday with busted woofer music.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Take store credit and buy something better.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I still don't belive in genuine krx2 blew off stock power.

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## susedan (Aug 11, 2015)

Victor_inox said:


> I still don't belive in genuine krx2 blew off stock power.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk



I managed a higher end car audio shop years ago. We had countless non-technical customers return midbass drivers to generally find they had massively boosted the bass and/or disabled the hp crossovers. Even on factory power, they somehow managed to blow one after another.


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## susedan (Aug 11, 2015)

Doc Fluty said:


> Which I WOULDNT do if I didn't already have my a-pillars done.



I'm on a phone but those pillars look really nice! I'd get the woofers replaced as they are damn good drivers.

That said it appears they need a higher hp crossover or the bass needs to be greatly reduced on them. They look to be over exerting, few drivers will sound good AND hold up to that kind of bass output.


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## Focused4door (Aug 15, 2015)

hot9dog said:


> That driver wouldn't flex that much off of stock power.


I would put in the so unlikely to hardly be worth mentioning, but if the DSP in the setup went crazy (like at boot up) it could have set the filter frequency and EQ gain to something absurd and done so. The DSP should be error trapped and have a watch dog, but who knows.

But I think that is highly unlikely.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Doc Fluty said:


> I contacted focal (orca?) and ask them for help, and they gave me $100 off the price of buying two new woofers and that's about it... so I'm still looking at $500 to fix a factory defect.


It sorta sounds to me that they did take care of you. They offered you a discount that they wouldn't offer to anyone else, to help remedy a problem that they didn't create. That's basically the definition of taking care of you. 

You keep mentioning being a valued customer, but that's precisely the problem. You're not a valued customer of Focal/ORCA. You're not actually a customer of theirs at all. Car audio dealers have an authorized dealer network for many very good reasons, and it's not so they can screw the end customer. It's so they can protect the end user. I understand that you don't see it that way, and I have my own personal disagreements with the "authorized dealer" concept, but that's irrelevant. 

Car audio is different from almost every other type of consumer electronics you can buy online. It has to be integrated/installed into another piece of electronic equipment(car) that's manufactured by any number of different companies, all with different types of systems, in one of the most hostile environments that one would think to install electronics into. It's a recipe for disaster, frankly. The dealer network is designed to offer the customer a guarantee that the product they are purchasing is authentic, installed/integrated correctly by trained technicians that possess at least some amount of knowledge of 12v electronics, and backed up by technical advise about the product by the original manufacturer. In theory, it's actually a very reasonable, and sort of altruistic concept. 

Where things go awry, is when customers go outside of the authorized network. And that's ultimately where your problem began. You feel like you should be treated as a "valued customer" of Focal. But, you're not a customer of Focal. When one purchases equipment online, from non-authorized dealers, they are exchanging any warranty and factory support that they might otherwise be entitled to for a lower price. Sometimes that's a reasonable trade, other times it's not. Unfortunately, this time it didn't work out so well. 

When you go outside of the dealer network, you become a customer of the place that you purchased the item from. If that company is not authorized, then unfortunately you find yourself in a dilemma. When it comes to buying anything online, there's still a certain amount of "buyer beware". 

You were already dealing with an authorized dealer and could have easily purchased the product through them. Why didn't you? Please understand that I'm not blaming you, I'm just trying to understand your reasons. If it's a great price, I can appreciate it. I also understand that you may not have gone into your purchase with your eyes wide open, so to speak. It happens to the best of us. As someone said earlier, there's a steep learning curve in this industry, and it's unfortunate that you had to learn this lesson in this manner. 

If anything, I'd say your beef is with the Amazon seller. They sold a product through a retail channel that they knew ahead of time would prevent the customer from receiving warranty support from the manufacturer in the future. I'd first contact Amazon, and make them aware of the issue. Then I'd contact my credit card company and attempt to file a "charge back" claim. I understand that neither of those options leaves you in a great situation, and probably still gives you a sour taste in your mouth. That's perfectly understandable. 

But, with that said, I still don't feel that your beef is with Focal/ORCA. They made you a deal on a brand new set of drivers, that they didn't have to, in an effort to take car of you. I've got a whole garage filled with Focal equipment, and if I called them up tomorrow as a "valued customer" I wouldn't be able to get the deal you were offered. I understand that's of little solice to you, but manufacturers have authorized dealers to protect the dealers and ultimately the customer. If they were to honor warranties on products sold outside of the dealer network, it would undermine the whole dealer network, and ultimately the customers. It's a fragile balance, and unfortunately some customers are going to be left out in the cold.

I hope you get a satisfactory outcome from your ordeal. And I would caution against taking it out on Focal. They're an excellent company that makes an excellent product. I've dealt with the guys at ORCA many times over the years, and they do genuinely care about their customers, their dealers and their products. Unfortunately in this situation, in doing the right thing by their dealers and authorized customers, you are left feeling marginalized. It's not a perfect world, and it damn sure isn't a perfect industry. If there were anything I could do to help you out, I would. Good luck with the rest of your build. I look forward to seeing pics of it at SEMA.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

after watching that video i can't imagine the woofer being blown because of the way you play it.


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

Onyx1136 said:


> It sorta sounds to me that they did take care of you. They offered you a discount that they wouldn't offer to anyone else, to help remedy a problem that they didn't create. That's basically the definition of taking care of you.
> 
> You keep mentioning being a valued customer, but that's precisely the problem. You're not a valued customer of Focal/ORCA. You're not actually a customer of theirs at all.
> 
> ...


If you look at my post history, you will see that I began posting in here over the summer asking questions about which speakers to buy. As a total newb I researched all the posts here and thought to myself that "Focal seems to be a brand everyone respects". With that thought in my head I went to amazon.com where i buy almost $500 a month worth of various stuff, looked at the Focal selection and clicked buy on a set of Focal 3 ways. I then took it to my local Focal installer where I bought an audison bit one and other equipment. 

I did not go to the Focal site to check if they were an authorized dealer, no different than if i wanted to buy an external hard drive from newegg.com would I go to the manufacturers of the hard drive or RAM to see if newegg was an authorized dealer before I made the purchase.

Also, if I bought that hard drive, TV, home theater receiver or whatever and it had a manufacturer defect after a few weeks never would I expect that manufacturer would say "sorry about your bad luck, here is $100 off your required $600 replacement" and then go on to feel as though that they went out of thier way to help me.

I mention being a valued customer because Yes, i bought the component speakers, 2 amplifiers and 33kx subwoofer and being hooked up by one of their partners. 

I'm a professional automotive photographer, I shoot cars for magazines (www.fb.com/docfluty) and if someone spent thousands of dollars on my services or products (as i did with their amps/subs)... they would be a valued customer to me. Especially if the logo of my work was being displayed on the items.

I don't believe the average consumer would expect that if they buy a product on amazon, newegg or other reputable sites that if the product had a manufacturer defect a few weeks after purchase that the consumer would be without warranty coverage especially if hooked up by one of their authorized technicians.

Maybe you believe that and because speakers are so dependent on other variables that the manufactures are valid in their practice of denying warranty claims based on this, I simply do not agree.



jtaudioacc said:


> after watching that video i can't imagine the woofer being blown because of the way you play it.


I can't imagine that factory 6x9 that i posted a pic of could handle the factory head units massive power and the focal seemingly could not 

btw, here is the car it is going in. I already have it lowered on coil-overs, 3-piece custom forged wheels, billet engine mods, new hood/bumper/custom paint, "focal complete audio build?", upcoming sparco seats and will start the engine work in early February for a 426 with a whipple supercharger for over 900 HP. 

Im pretty excited about it... hope you guys like it


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> I still don't belive in genuine krx2 blew off stock power.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


could have been getting full range signal and clipped like hell


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> could have been getting full range signal and clipped like hell


again, these were powered using the facotry head unit. 

The factory head unit send the midbass to the doors, the higher frequencies to the dash speakers and the really low stuff to the factory subwoofer in the trunk.

I put up a picture of the OEM 6x9 that survived the signal/power/frequencies... so thats why everyone, including the authorized dealer, who did the install was shocked to see them have these issues.

Tats why I say there must have been a manufacturer defect in the woofers because I do not believe the factory system, which didn't kill the oem speakers, could kill these robust Focals.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> could have been getting full range signal and clipped like hell


Still highly improbable. 
Despite all assurances Focal is MOST counterfeited audio brand.
I`ve seen what chinese can do counterfeiting much more complicated things then speakers. embossed in rubber numbers is nothing. thin wire- overheated and deformed former - horrible scratching sound. Without Focal actually looking on those speakers there is no way they can be 100% sure it`s genuine.


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

here is a shot of the full deadening on the inner door and also the outer door skin as well at the HDPE cut speaker rings, we didnt even use wood.

However, since people are blaming me for sending too much power to these speakers from the head unit, should I no longer consider using the Focal 900.6 (150x6) to power these components?


Since a head unit can fry these speakers... should i look into smaller 25-45 watt per channel amps?


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Are you 100% sure about the signal being sent from the factory head unit? As others have stated, those drivers are really stout and handle power. I think one of the installers at my local shop selling focal has that 3 way set and send much more power that 150 watts to them. Videos don't tell everything, but that video looks like something is not right. They look like a free air sub moving around, not a midbass. My guess would be dirty signal, clipped signal, or signal with incorrect xover points coming from that factory head. My advise would be not use any power coming from the factory head unit and get a true amp wired and installed correctly.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Crossover points for that midbass would be irrelevant on stock head unit.
even if headunit were sending 1HZ directly to midbass at it`s full theoretical power it wouldn`t be enough to overheat former so it`s deformed to the point of scratching shorting ring and that is exactly how it sounds to me. 
It`s either fake or something missing here. 

OP measure AC voltage on the same signal you have that driver overexerting like crazy and post your result. Also verify resistance of that driver before VC finally fried.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Doc Fluty said:


> Maybe you believe that and because speakers are so dependent on other variables that the manufactures are valid in their practice of denying warranty claims based on this, I simply do not agree.


You're obviously still upset about your ordeal, and unwilling to process any perspective other than your own. That's understandable, I suppose. You invested a substantial amount of money into a project, and things aren't working out the way you planned. I'd be upset as well. You do have a right to be upset, I just feel that you are upset with the wrong party, that's all. 

And, no, that's not what I believe. I was simply explaining the reality of the situation. But I'm. It going to get into what I believe because as I stated earlier, it's not relevant to the situation. Regardless, I hope things work out and your project turns out the way you want. Good luck.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Typically, counterfeit Focal's are the 2 way sets- not the 3 way sets. If the OP contacted Orca, they would have caught this and they would have told him to take a hike. The midbass for this set can take ALOT of power and still hold its composure, further more... the passive network would have consumed a portion of the power from the head unit. After watching the video... I have a hard time seeing how a stock head unit, going thru a passive network, would supply enough power to move this midbass like this. The only thing we have to go by here is the video and your words on this thread....with those 2 things combined, it makes me feel that something is missing from the equation . To be honest, it sucks to have blown equipment, I feel for you. I looks as if your putting alot of resources and passion into this car.... the a-pillars look great, this would seem that your installer is talented.... but at times raw talent can only get you so far in this life. I would look into replacing the midbass drivers, and look into finding another installer. Good luck in your journey.


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> could have been getting full range signal and clipped like hell


This is exactly what I think. He clipped the **** out of them woofers.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Doc Fluty said:


> If you look at my post history, you will see that I began posting in here over the summer asking questions about which speakers to buy. As a total newb I researched all the posts here and thought to myself that "Focal seems to be a brand everyone respects". With that thought in my head I went to amazon.com where i buy almost $500 a month worth of various stuff, looked at the Focal selection and clicked buy on a set of Focal 3 ways. I then took it to my local Focal installer where I bought an audison bit one and other equipment.
> 
> I did not go to the Focal site to check if they were an authorized dealer, no different than if i wanted to buy an external hard drive from newegg.com would I go to the manufacturers of the hard drive or RAM to see if newegg was an authorized dealer before I made the purchase.
> 
> ...


You went out of their dealer network. At that point your not their customer to worry about. This is up to the seller to take care of you. NOT orca. How long did these speakers work for? How long and loud did you play them? I understand your new and this doesn't make sense but yes, you can still blow speakers off low power. To low of a crossover, clipped signal, etc etc. It's certainly not up to focal to take care of you due to an issue I don't doubt was your own fault whether you know it or want to admit it or not. I highly doubt 2 bad speakers made it out of their factory and somehow got paired together. Then with the whole counterfeit thing.. I doubt a Chinese company can randomly guess the serial number of a real focal set.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

Jroo said:


> Are you 100% sure about the signal being sent from the factory head unit?


Yes, the Focal amps are still sitting in my garage waiting on the trunk build to start. Those mid bass are only being powered from the factory unit using the factory wiring. I took the woofers out myself when they started to crack and saw the original wires and connectors.

Thank you for your post hot9dog.

As for the others...

I love how people are blaming me for "going out of the network" as if the average first time speaker buyer knows that if you buy a speaker from amazon and plug it into your factory head unit if something goes wrong in the first week of playing that you get no warranty at all.

You are repeating the same nonsense... like "_how long did you play them for_ or _whats the crossover_".... ignoring the fact that I showed a picture of the factory 6x9 that had a magnet the size of a quarter yet didn't get destroyed in a week.

In fact, my car is getting built for SEMA... it doesn't even get drove much. It sits in my garage only to come out a few times a week to either go to a show or to pick up my kids from school. Thats it...

Forgive me for being an idiot and plugging some aftermarket speakers and expecting them to work on my factory head unit... what a idiot for going out of the sacred network huh?



SkizeR said:


> It's certainly not up to focal to take care of you due to an issue I don't doubt was your own fault whether you know it or want to admit it or not.


Also, pretty sure in post #5 I said i didn't blame Focal... pretty sure it was the first line there.

All I said was that I feel like they could have helped me more... that's a opinion, not a fact.

Its an opinion because I feel if i bought a tv, computer or hard drive from amazon and there was a manufacturer defect, that any other manufacturer wouldn't tell me I'm **** out of luck and should have checked their website for a list before purchasing.

somehow us new people to car stereos should have just had this INSTINCT to buy from an authorized dealer in the network or we wouldn't get any warranty whatsoever, right?

I travel from Cali to FL shooting cars for magazines... I can see why there are so few at these shows with real audio builds... it's exhausting. I do believe this will prolly be my last car audio build. Next time I will just replace the stock 6x9s with some simple polk or alpine 6x9s from best buy.

Im done with this thread, I just came here to post my experiences and see if someone had similar issues, tips on what could have happened so i don't do it again or whatever... but I'm just getting **** thrown at me like its my fault for buying a set of speakers on amazon and expecting some sort of factory warranty or that im driving them too hard with a factory head unit.

Thanks for the input from those who tried. I already ordered the replacement speakers and wont install them until the audison is hooked up with a steep high pass crossover.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

W
O
W.......


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## Goldcar (Dec 8, 2015)

Doc Fluty said:


> Yeah, i know.. i should have bought them from an authorized dealer and it would all be easily replaced.


From your first post, it sounds like you kind of knew what you were getting into. You assumed. Maybe its just being a smart buyer, but if im dropping that kind of cash on an item, you better believe i pop over the the mfgs website and check what warranty or replacement is like. On any item, car parts, PC parts, whatever.

Now, if you were to go on focals actual website, with one click, you would of had the knowledge of the warranty. Literally, one click. Homepage > under the "About Us" click "Identifying unauthorized dealers". Says right on that page. This should be part of product research. Maybe its just me?


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

Goldcar said:


> From your first post, it sounds like you kind of knew what you were getting into.


First sentence of the first post....



Doc Fluty said:


> I am a car audio newbie.


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## Goldcar (Dec 8, 2015)

If your a newbie and you want to learn, you probably should of started with some speakers from best buy and work on up.

But if your a newbie and you want to jump to the top, then the extra cost you pay on the speakers to the shop is for the knowledge you lack in that specific area, and assurance they will take care of it. Good luck , nice car, and i really like the photos.


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## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

Doc Fluty, this car is being built for SEMA ? Beautiful car. Would you happen to be going to CES next month?


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

The whole process of this hobby is to fall on your face, to waste money on unnecessary equipment, to learn in a humble manner and to blow **** up. (Some of us are addicted to blowing things up) . Lol


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

BlackHHR said:


> Doc Fluty, this car is being built for SEMA ? Beautiful car. Would you happen to be going to CES next month?


I will not be going to CES because i am sure i will still be in the middle of this audio build getting as much done as I can before I ship the car off to Arrington in Virginia for a 426 hemi with a whipple supercharger in early February... hopefully done in time to meet up with Ralph Giles, Mark Trostle and other Fiat/dodge/chrysler/mopar executives in los angeles for Spring Fest LX in late march.

My goal is to get as much done by then so when they see it I can get some wows from them.

The car was supposed to be at SEMA 2015 in the booth of my 3-piece forged wheel manufactures booth, thats why these speakers were bought in late july early august. This is also why I went with big budget stuff on my first attempt (was going for the sema wow factor lol), but I totally underestimated the time needed to find a good installer and get it all put together. So the audio stuff wasn't done to my satisfaction in time so i decided to hold off until next year when the audio and engine mods are done.

I also have commitments already of it going into a few magazines that I shoot for, including hopefully a cover and am also hoping to find a spot for it in PASMAG... that's where all the focal/audison/cool build stuff came in.

I have shot for many magazines over the last 8 years and finally told myself I am going to build my own car for a mag this time... thats why I'm putting all this effort and love into it... kind of a childhood dream for a poor kid growing up in a crack house.

Wanna see another cool shot? did this a few weeks ago with some fire lol

or you can check out more of my car shots here... Automobiles | Doc Fluty Photography


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

The real Subzero said:


> This is exactly what I think. He clipped the **** out of them woofers.


Definately Clipped, after watching video, wow!! On the other hand nice A pillar design. I am sorry I just dont buy stock power did that to those woofers. I am not trying to say u r lieing Doc Fluty but I am just going on what i seen in the video.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

Doc Fluty said:


> I will not be going to CES because i am sure i will still be in the middle of this audio build getting as much done as I can before I ship the car off to Arrington in Virginia for a 426 hemi with a whipple supercharger in early February... hopefully done in time to meet up with Ralph Giles, Mark Trostle and other Fiat/dodge/chrysler/mopar executives in los angeles for Spring Fest LX in late march.
> 
> My goal is to get as much done by then so when they see it I can get some wows from them.
> 
> ...


Damn...Doc Fluty is a Baller!! Nice Ride


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

hot9dog said:


> The whole process of this hobby is to fall on your face, to waste money on unnecessary equipment, to learn in a humble manner and to blow **** up. (Some of us are addicted to blowing things up) . Lol


Hello.

We need another car meet eh.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

I just replaced the factory speakers in my wife's car, which is a 2015 Charger R/T with the premium "Beats" system, not the HK upgrade though. I replaced the 6x9's in the doors with a set of JBL GTO's and I must say, the factory amp does put out quite a bit of power and doesn't high pass the door speakers, as a matter of fact I believe the output is bloated on the bottom with excessive EQ. I can believe that pushing the factory amp into clipping, which is easily done, can kill the Focals as happened to you. The factory HK 6x9's use Neo magnets, so their construction can be a bit deceiving and they can handle more power than you would expect. A friend of mine amplified his factory 6x9's in an older Charger and they handled the power amazingly well. My opinion is that the power output and odd EQ of the factory amplifier is more robust than most think and when driven into clipping can do damage fast.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Were the speakers "shipped and sold by amazon.com" or sold by a third party?


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## webwarmiller (Oct 19, 2015)

The one thing that stands out to me is that BOTH of the speakers went 'bad'. The chances that both of the speakers had a manufacturing defect is infinitely small. Focal knows their failure rate on these particular drivers and can most likely even trace the stats down to a manufacturing date window based on the serial numbers. So, when someone calls up with both drivers having gone bad, it's pretty obvious that the failure was not defect related. It also doesn't help that they lasted about a week before failing. This would also lead to a conclusion of a poor signal as the driver was only able to tolerate it so long before blowing. I'd also be willing to bet that if you asked your installer to install another set of the same exact speakers in the same exact manner, that he wouldn't be willing to risk another pair.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

The real Subzero said:


> Hello.
> 
> We need another car meet eh.


I totally agree with you!! The whole arizona crew is way over due for a GTG. If we can get a killer location locked down, then I'm sure all the scattered children in the valley of the sun would come together.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

webwarmiller said:


> The one thing that stands out to me is that BOTH of the speakers went 'bad'. The chances that both of the speakers had a manufacturing defect is infinitely small. Focal knows their failure rate on these particular drivers and can most likely even trace the stats down to a manufacturing date window based on the serial numbers. So, when someone calls up with both drivers having gone bad, it's pretty obvious that the failure was not defect related. It also doesn't help that they lasted about a week before failing. This would also lead to a conclusion of a poor signal as the driver was only able to tolerate it so long before blowing. I'd also be willing to bet that if you asked your installer to install another set of the same exact speakers in the same exact manner, that he wouldn't be willing to risk another pair.


x2


as someone who works for a company that sells on amazon, contact amazon, or the third party seller and deal with it through them. thats all you can do. usually they honor some sort of warranty, even though i dont doubt this isnt their fault either.


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## eldondo (Jul 1, 2014)

Mr,Fluty is over on caraudio trying to get some smpathy but no ones biting yet


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

lol... trying to get sympathy? 

For what? To get pity points from anonymous strangers on a car forum? No, I'm just telling a story of what happened to me. I don't expect someone to mail me a check or give me an internet pat on the back... My life is pretty cool, I got a 6 month old SRT challenger that I'm building up for sema... _oh boohoo, I have to replace $500 speakers... _see... it's not really a big deal and no one is going to feel any sympathy for me eldondo.

just trying to share my car audio saga with car audio people. 

Anyway... back to the things that matter.

Yes, the dual blown speakers confused me as well. That's why I was thinking that Focal would think I faked something and blew it up... That's also why I said I wasn't really blaming them only that I wished with that, with the other circumstances (authorized installer, other focal products, ect) that maybe they would have done a 50% replacement or so... but they didn't and life goes on.

However, the amazon seller did refund me the cost of the new replacements so I will take that cash down to the dealer im working with and get the new set. I wont install them though until the audison and amps are put in though... that way we know for sure what is going on.

Not looking for empathy or pity points... just telling the story of where I bought some speakers on amazon, hooked them up to my factory stereo and seemingly fried them.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

(Hold that thought.... I'll be right back, I think I can smell my popcorn starting to burn)


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

Back on topic...

Does anyone have any recommendations for me to not have this happen again? I doubt i hook the new ones up until the audison and amps are ready to install, so that should cover any lower frequencies from going overboard and smoking them. 

when I emailed Focal they recommended a high pass at 63hz and lowpass at 300-400hz for the mid bass and 4k for the midrange to the tweeter.

Someone mentioned that the speaker looked like it was in a free air scenario... should I somehow test for leaks?

I know there is some required holes in the sound deadening at the top the size of a quarter that are used to place the interior door panel... so i cant really plug them. 

Or could i somehow?


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Thing is, in your bigger scheme of things, getting the car ready for SEMA, your various cool photo shoots and high flying assignments, car audio is a small part. Most here live and breathe car audio and are calling you out on two basic mistakes, buying w/o warranty to save a few bucks, and then wasting a perfectly good driver by abusing it. I have never seen a woofer move the way yours did. Seems like there was a lot more than 20-30 watts moving it. You've replaced the speakers and moved on which is good for you. 

I'm curious though, if you can spend 2-3G without a problem on a product, why would you want risk a no warranty situation to save a couple of hundred bucks?


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Doc Fluty said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for me to not have this happen again?


Keep the gains low

HP the woofer ~60 on steep 24db slopes

Don't bass boost anything


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

Like I mentioned before I'm a car audio newb. I did my research on this forum another's and found some speakers that I liked and since on the focal website said there is no focal dealer in my hometown so I bought from Amazon.

Where else was I supposed to order them from?

I have bought thousands of dollars worth of Amazon products and have never experienced a situation where I didn't have a factory warranty. So I thought I was good.

Saving money was never part of my purchasing deduction. If it was I'm sure I could have found a great set of. Components for 500 and not 1500.

Had I known that I would not been able to have a warranty with purchasing from Amazon I wouldn't have bought them there or if I knew that there was actually a local dealer about a mile from my house I would've bought it there like I did the rest of my Amps and subs. This is just been an entire learning experience for me.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Doc Fluty said:


> I bought a $99 set of polks for my ram at Best Buy, installed them and they are working fine for almost a year now.
> 
> But somehow me plugging my $1500 focal 6.5" into my factory head unit is stupid and I overestimated my ability to control them?
> 
> You guys have got to be kidding me.


your admittedly new to this, no? go read up on clipping and how low crossovers effect speakers.


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> So it`s either was distorting as hell and you not capable of hearing it therefore you are in wrong hobby


This is entirely probable. I seriousness doubt I ever try another car audio build again.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

That or maybe learn some more.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Doc Fluty said:


> This is entirely probable. I seriousness doubt I ever try another car audio build again.


its just not as simple as people think. have a professional install it and walk you through and show you why things were done


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

Well doc all i have to say is u have a beauiful car, and it will be even sweeter when u get all of the mods done. Hope u have better luck with car audio in the future.


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## Soundaddict (Feb 20, 2014)

WOW! Just read all page 1, things seemed on track... Skipped to page 3 and BOOM, different thing entirely. 
Anyway, back to the original question of no warranty on Amazon...
Orca, who I have had great success in dealing with on tech stuff and product info, (as you all well know Focal in particular has absolutely horrible owners manuals) can't be responsible for a product that didn't get purchased AUTHORIZED. Why, you wonder, it's their product, right? Well yes, but they have to protect their legit dealers who do things right. Like according to a contract that they sign to sell Focal. They are protecting that dealer but also their brand. They put a fortune into research, development, ads, press, a website(terrible btw) show cars....they have built a brand. With a brand comes clout. You picked KRX3 for a reason. Maybe you never heard them b4. But you knew the brand. You saw the ads, read the press, went on the website (ooh, yellow cones, SWEET!) and you saw the RETAIL PRICE. Steep? Hell yes! But you were sold on the brand, so you went looking to get them cheaper. And you did. And I have too and have many others. You gambled, you lost. Forget why they blew. That is not the point. Any electronic you look up reviews on, you're gonna find the person who got a broken one. IT HAPPENS. End of the day, when those speakers went out the backdoor of wherever they came from, went on Amazon, you essentially bought a "used" new in box item. Orca is not going to warranty because if they did, what reason would ANYBODY have to buy from a dealer for full price. All of a sudden their 1500$ speakers are now 800$ speakers everywhere. Then the dealer goes out of business. Then Orca goes out of business. Then Focal goes out of business. Then France goes out of business!! You knew the risks. We all know the risks.


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

gumbeelee said:


> Well doc all i have to say is u have a beauiful car, and it will be even sweeter when u get all of the mods done. Hope u have better luck with car audio in the future.


Thank you very much.



Soundaddict said:


> Maybe you never heard them b4. But you knew the brand. You saw the ads, read the press, went on the website (ooh, yellow cones, SWEET!) and you saw the RETAIL PRICE. Steep? Hell yes! But you were sold on the brand, so you went looking to get them cheaper. And you did. And I have too and have many others. You gambled, you lost.



Soundaddict, not to be rude. But you are completely wrong nd just bringing in nonsense and stuff that didn't happen.

I didn't see any ads, never read any press (where is press about speakers at?), the website wasn't much help, didn't care about the retail price and did not go looking for them cheaper... hell, i never even heard of Focal until a week or so before I bought them.

Here is how it all went down... really simple.

*I came to this site and caraudio, heard of the reputation of focal, went to the site to find a local dealer; found none yet saw a nice three way.. then I figured since I can't buy them locally I would do the next best thing and go with my favorite shopping site Amazon...... that... is... all...there...was... to ... it. *

I didn't shop around on no-name websites to find the lowest deal, i didn't buy off ebay or Craigslist or the used section in a car audio forum... I didn't gamble... yet i did lose though.

It wasn't until I went looking for a local installer that I found out one was actually a authorized focal dealer.... after i found that out I bought more focal amps, focal 33kx sub and an audison bit one.... got the a-pillars done... got the doors done.. plugged the doors into the factory harness just so I can finally hear something after months of work and thousands of dollars after about 5-10 hours driving time they developed the cracking sound.

That's all there is to it... i wasn't going around looking to save $200 here or there... hell my wheels cost over $9000... I'm not trying to brag, just pointing out that I have no problem paying for quality stuff. I really wouldn't risk having no warranty on a $1500 pair of speakers over 200-300 bucks.

Once I found an authorized local dealer... i dealt with them and bought my stuff from them and had the authorized dealer install everything... had i known they were there in the begining I would have bought my speakers there just like I did the sub, amps and audison.

If i was looking for the cheapest price for everything then I wouldn't have bought the rest of the stuff from the dealer I would have also go the amps, subs and audison off amazon also... right? Make sense?

I don't know why everyone on here seems to think I plotted this stuff out or am lying about having these only hooked up to a head unit.

Also, again, for the 5th time... I am not blaming Focal. 

I was only saying how sucky it is for someone "out of the loop" on car stereo stuff to find out that the speakers you bought online don't have a warranty at all because you bought them from amazon and not from a list on their website.

And BTW... baby swings also have ads, websites, research and development, press, ect and if it has a defect a weeks after you use it and you tell them you bought it off amazon you can still send it into them and they don't tell you "**** you pay me $500" to get a new one.


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## Soundaddict (Feb 20, 2014)

Doc Fluty said:


> Thank you very much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Point taken. Not blaming..just basically stating the reason for the "no warranty". 
After its all done, they protect their brand and their profit aka retail price markup.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

Soundaddict said:


> WOW! Just read all page 1, things seemed on track... Skipped to page 3 and BOOM, different thing entirely.
> Anyway, back to the original question of no warranty on Amazon...
> Orca, who I have had great success in dealing with on tech stuff and product info, (as you all well know Focal in particular has absolutely horrible owners manuals) can't be responsible for a product that didn't get purchased AUTHORIZED. Why, you wonder, it's their product, right? Well yes, but they have to protect their legit dealers who do things right. Like according to a contract that they sign to sell Focal. They are protecting that dealer but also their brand. They put a fortune into research, development, ads, press, a website(terrible btw) show cars....they have built a brand. With a brand comes clout. You picked KRX3 for a reason. Maybe you never heard them b4. But you knew the brand. You saw the ads, read the press, went on the website (ooh, yellow cones, SWEET!) and you saw the RETAIL PRICE. Steep? Hell yes! But you were sold on the brand, so you went looking to get them cheaper. And you did. And I have too and have many others. You gambled, you lost. Forget why they blew. That is not the point. Any electronic you look up reviews on, you're gonna find the person who got a broken one. IT HAPPENS. End of the day, when those speakers went out the backdoor of wherever they came from, went on Amazon, you essentially bought a "used" new in box item. Orca is not going to warranty because if they did, what reason would ANYBODY have to buy from a dealer for full price. All of a sudden their 1500$ speakers are now 800$ speakers everywhere. Then the dealer goes out of business. Then Orca goes out of business. Then Focal goes out of business. Then France goes out of business!! You knew the risks. We all know the risks.



After looking at Doc's ride and all of the upgrades he has done and all the planned upgrades he plans on doing, I honestly don't believe he was to worried about the price. He was just unlucky, once his set-up and install is done, it will be sweet.


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## moparman79 (Jan 31, 2008)

What factory oem system did the car come with? Since you have 2015 SRT-8 Im sure the oem amps that comes in challengers are 2 ohms. was all the eq settings in the headunit on flat or boosted high( bass, treble midrange ect)? I know on 08-14 challengers people have just dropped in aftermarket speakers without any issues with the amplified system. I don't have any experience with the 15's system. I will be doing one of these shortly. I wouldn't hook up any speakers to the oem system without knowing what that system is putting out signal wise.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Doc Fluty said:


> I didn't shop around on no-name websites to find the lowest deal, i didn't buy off ebay or Craigslist or the used section in a car audio forum... I didn't gamble... yet i did lose though.


but heres the thing... amazon IS a no name site (well, for some industries at least. like car audio). its just a place where vendors can sell, just like ebay, but a hair more legit. amazon didnt sell you anything. a third party vendor did. i actually work for a company that sells car audio stuff on amazon and ebay. trust me when i say its no name in the car audio industry. focal has every right to ignore you. maybe the vendor who sold them to you will cover your mistake. who knows


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Doc Fluty said:


> I actually have been in contact with them and they have offered to give me a store credit. I told them I wasn't interested in that because of the fact of "non-authorized dealer" and any of their other stuff wouldn't be warrantied either. They told me to wait a few days and they are contacting focal to see what kind of replacement they can do.
> 
> At first they offered to fix it, but since they don't have a brick and mortar store nor a real website I was leery of that. I just wanted new woofers.
> 
> ...


^^^above in bold^^^ 
After reading all this if I were Scott at Hybrid I would post, "Please don't buy my speakers. "


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Except sinfoni instead if hybrid audio. Or audio frog


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## slugman2894 (Feb 21, 2012)

Victor_inox said:


> I still don't belive in genuine krx2 blew off stock power.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk



I've seen KRs blow on stock head unit without people have proper high passes, never trust stock power on nice speakers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

gumbeelee said:


> After looking at Doc's ride and all of the upgrades he has done and all the planned upgrades he plans on doing, I honestly don't believe he was to worried about the price. He was just unlucky, once his set-up and install is done, it will be sweet.


thank you for the kind words.



customaudioman said:


> What factory oem system did the car come with? Since you have 2015 SRT-8


I have the harmon kardon system. The EQ settings were two bumps up on bass, flat mids and two bumps up on treble. 



PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> ^^^above in bold^^^
> After reading all this if I were Scott at Hybrid I would post, "Please don't buy my speakers. "
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, that's kind of jacked up.

Because I bought a set of speakers, paid a dealer to install them and ran into problems with them you would think that Scott would be hoping I don't buy his product?

People on here are treating me as if I'm a bad ****ing guy. I said multiple times I wasn't even mad at focal... that if that's their policy fine... just saying as a consumer I wished they could do more. Am I not even allowed to have that opinion?

Also, that i was surprised because when I bought a baby swing, tv or whatever off amazon and had issues with it the company never responded with "well you shouldn't have bought it there, your only option is to buy a whole new set".

I didn't call them crooks, assholes and didn't even say a bad thing about their product... but somehow I'm the bad guy and if you were the owner of a company you would hope that I don't buy your product?

I genuinely can't believe the attacks im getting on this site.

I bet if i blew the $99 speakers that i bought for my ram from best buy people wouldn't be here saying things like there are owners of audio companies who wish I didn't buy their products in the future.

I get a email notification every few hours from this site of someone just either calling me a liar, stupid and now a problem customer who should be avoided by companies.

Freakin amazing...


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Welcome to the DIYMA family


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Doc Fluty said:


> thank you for the kind words.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Go back and read the first page of your posts. Yeah you did call out Focal and yeah you did overdrive the 6.5s. True I can't speak for the owner's of AudioFrog, Hybrid, or any other fill in the blank quality made speaker company but imo you're not the customer they are looking for.
It's time you own this mistake instead of making the knee jerk reaction of putting Focal on blast. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Go back and read the first page of your posts. Yeah you did call out Focal and yeah you did overdrive the 6.5s. True I can't speak for the owner's of AudioFrog, Hybrid, or any other fill in the blank quality made speaker company but imo you're not the customer they are looking for.
> It's time you own this mistake instead of making the knee jerk reaction of putting Focal on blast.



Yeah, I blasted them... totally said it was their fault and my speakers were junk and all that right? Oh wait...

*Post #5*



What? said:


> Focal is not the problem.





Doc Fluty said:


> Didn't really say they were... just said I didn't feel valued as a customer.


*Post #33*



Doc Fluty said:


> Also, pretty sure in post #5 I said i didn't blame Focal... pretty sure it was the first line there
> 
> All I said was that I feel like they could have helped me more... that's a opinion, not a fact.


*Post #50 *



Doc Fluty said:


> Yes, the dual blown speakers confused me as well. That's why I was thinking that Focal would think I faked something and blew it up... That's also why I said I wasn't really blaming them only that I wished with that, with the other circumstances (authorized installer, other focal products, ect) that maybe they would have done a 50% replacement or so... but they didn't and life goes on.


So i didn't really blame them for anything... was just hoping for more help and maybe answers from someone who might know how a head unit can be fine with a junky paper OEM 6x9 speaker but somehow overpowered my Focal 6.5"

*Even said how I can see that Focal might suspect something fishy by the dual blown woofers and that i "wasnt really blaming them"*

But you, just absolutely know this is all my fault for overpowering them with my head unit huh?



PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> and yeah you did overdrive the 6.5s.


Again, all I did was buy a set of speakers and have a dealer hook them into my factory head unit... but **** me right? its all my fault and I should have known better that those focals couldn't handle that bad ass head unit huh?



Right now, im concerned less with what speaker company would like to take my money and more concerned about the level of smugness coming from someone whose posts I used to read with respect and interest when I was a lurker here searching for information.

When i was a 15 year old kid cerwin vega strokers were new, 150 db was just cracked, mb quarts were awesome, epicenters did something sweet, earthquake subs were cool as were those flat PPI woofers.

So when I started thinking of quality brands a few months ago for my build I tried to remember brands I used to respect. So I searched through your PPI stuff to see if they were still on the level that they were to me back in the day... thought maybe an old school build would be cool. However, everyone I came across online said the new top dogs were hybrid audio, focal, morel, illusion audio, ID, ect... so i didn't end up with the ppi's... but remember a lot of the info in your posts.

Now I see why they say never meet your heroes (or people online you "respected")....Nice finally getting a chance to talk to you bud.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Doc Fluty said:


> Yeah, I blasted them... totally said it was their fault and my speakers were junk and all that right? Oh wait...
> 
> *Post #5*
> 
> ...


Thank you for the compliment. :thumbsup:


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

You're very welcome :thumbsup:


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Hey, out of curiosity, have ya tried those "blown" focal out outside of the car, with a high pass? Don't know what kind of power you're getting out of your factory amp.....but looking at the vid, that's got to be a full range signal.....could they just be driven past their xmax and getting noisy? I mean power aside, they aren't made to play sub frequencies at that kind of volume.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Doc Fluty said:


> But you, just absolutely know this is all my fault for overpowering them with my head unit huh?


To the OP, NOT being smug, but back to the facts, as others have pointed out but for some reason you continue to ignore , is that the Focals were destroyed more then likely by UNDERpowering them!!! The clipped signal from an amp being driven too hard will easily and readily destroy a voice coil, which WAS your experience.

While I tried looking at your original vid, I can no longer see it, but here is an example of a speaker being fed with a clipped signal..was that what yours was doing??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU4aH5gHG3Q


And here is a simple explanantion and graphic that very eloquently shows on what a clipped signal does to a subwoofer, tough it is ALSO applicable to ANY speaker…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PF32APSjrk

So, OP, what do you think happened to your new Focal speakers NOW???


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

seafish said:


> So, OP, what do you think happened to your new Focal speakers NOW???


I do not know. 

I bought a set of speakers, had a dealer hook them into my factory head unit... sadness occurred later. 

Thats all I know.

By the way, you are the first person I seen say I under-powered them... everyone else said I overpowered them and sent ungodly bass at them... even though miraculously the cheap factory speakers never had a problem with anything.



claydo said:


> I mean power aside, they aren't made to play sub frequencies at that kind of volume.


No Claydo, I do not. I have a onkyo 1030 home theater receiver but am not sure that can hold a 4 ohm load and kind of scared to try.

People keep saying this, and it could very well be true, who am i to say otherwise... but no one can answer me this...

_If these speakers got blown by me cranking them loud while playing my music, how come my factory speakers did not blow with the same power/music levels?_


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Doc Fluty said:


> I do not know.
> 
> I bought a set of speakers, had a dealer hook them into my factory head unit... sadness occurred later.
> 
> ...



Both SkizeR and VictorInox mentioned amp clipping as the possible source of your problem. Clipping is caused by OVERdriving an UNDERpowered amp and it causes DC voltage , instead of pure AC voltage, to be sent to the VC. DC voltage forces the VC ONLY in one direction up against its physical limits until the clipping briefly stops. Like when you connect a 9volt battery to your speaker to check polarity/phase and the cone moves either only in or only out until the battery is disconnected, Repeated driving of a VC to its physical limits with DC contaminated voltage will quickly destroy a speaker. Nuff said!!!


PLEASE just watch the vids and then report back what you think.


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

seafish said:


> Both SkizeR and VictorInox mentioned amp clipping as the possible source of your problem. Clipping is caused by OVERdriving an UNDERpowered amp and it causes DC voltage , instead of pure AC voltage, to be sent to the VC. DC voltage forces the VC ONLY in one direction up against its physical limits until the clipping briefly stops.


I did watch the videos and heard the sounds... however, its only till you said "amp clipping" and then went on to describe what it was that I it registered in my head what clipping meant. Others just said, or all i saw was, "clipping". 

I thought clipping was when you overpower a woofer and you "clipped" its peak and started to hear popping from it... thats why someone would say "I heard clipping in the woofer".

Never could I think the problem could have been in my amp, because if my amp wasn't powerful enough to break my oem speakers... why did it do it to the focals?

hell, i thought maybe it was that the Focal got down to 2 ohms at certain frequencies or something and pulled to much power... I never claimed to know _what_ happened.

Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me.

As I said in the first line of the first post, "im a newb" and didn't claim to know what happened, all i said is what I _did _know. That I hooked up my speaker to my head unit and it messed up. That's another reason why i said repeatably I didn't blame focal. I just accepted it as a "lesson learned" and moved on.... never called them a name or say their stuff was junk.

My only real complaint was that I thought that I should have been helped more on fixing it. Seeing is how I had an authorize dealer verify the products and do the install, i thought surely the problem couldn't be with me because, after all, if my factory speaker survived it... why couldn't the focals?

So, maybe I clipped the amp... maybe it is all my fault. I can't say it's not. But I wouldn't know until someone like you explained it to me.

Thanks for taking the time to explain what "clipping" actually meant to a newb.

P.S. While I do see that clipping could have been a problem... can you explain to me how is it that clipping occurred on the focal but not the oem speaker?


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Doc Fluty said:


> P.S. While I do see that clipping could have been a problem... can you explain to me how is it that clipping occurred on the focal but not the oem speaker?


Could be several things, and I am NOT and expert like others here, so hopefully either Victor, SkizeR or someone else will chip in again. 

I am gonna guess one or more of the below factors came into play--

1) higher sensitivity on the oem speakers let them play louder with less power thus no need to drive the amp into clipping.

2) difference in chosen XO between oem speakers and Focals made Focals pull more power i.e. XO was lower AFTER the Focal install, thus drawing more power from the amp to reproduce the lower frequencies.

3) along the same lines, you or the insatller wanted to hear how good the new high dollar speakers sounded, so tried playing them louder and lower then the oem speakers, which drove the amp to clipping

2) maybe also an impedance matching issue between the amp and new speakers??


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Doc Fluty said:


> I did watch the videos and heard the sounds... however, its only till you said "amp clipping" and then went on to describe what it was that I it registered in my head what clipping meant. Others just said, or all i saw was, "clipping".
> 
> I thought clipping was when you overpower a woofer and you "clipped" its peak and started to hear popping from it... thats why someone would say "I heard clipping in the woofer".
> 
> ...


Didn't i tell you to look up what clipping is twice already? Speakers don't clip. Signal does

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## arachni42 (Aug 22, 2015)

Doc Fluty said:


> People on here are treating me as if I'm a bad ****ing guy. I said multiple times I wasn't even mad at focal... that if that's their policy fine... just saying as a consumer I wished they could do more. Am I not even allowed to have that opinion?


I agree that this is a big problem for consumers. A lot of people *don't* know, and the Internet has made it difficult to control unauthorized dealers. Manufacturers are very interested in this issue, but most of them are relegated to playing catch-up right now. There's only so much they can do after the fact, but in coming years I hope to see this situation (of buying from an unauthorized dealer) prevented in the first place.

Your photos look really sweet, though.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Doc Fluty said:


> I did watch the videos and heard the sounds... however, its only till you said "amp clipping" and then went on to describe what it was that I it registered in my head what clipping meant. Others just said, or all i saw was, "clipping".
> 
> I thought clipping was when you overpower a woofer and you "clipped" its peak and started to hear popping from it... thats why someone would say "I heard clipping in the woofer".
> 
> ...


Did you measured impedance of OEM vs Focal? if OEM is 4 Ohm and focal 2 You were sending twice the power and clipped the **** out of that amplifier in process Your installer should have known that.


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## mmfg1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Jeez why is everyone being so rude.. I do understand OP when he mentioned Focal didnt value him as a customer.. I purchased a Focal 33wx2 and asked whether it is a replica or genuine Focal never heard back from them.. Purchased a focal headphone - and the headband cracked - emailed Focal - never heard back until I wrote a review.. Do I love Focal as a brand - Yes theyre subs are amazing but they really need to improve their customer service.. Would Audison and Dynaudio do this? The answer is NO.. Every questions - I have asked they emailed me back within 1 day.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Not a good idea to run components with a passive crossover off HU power.

Components and coaxials are 2 different animals being a factory or a Polk coaxial.

A coaxial has a hi pass capacitor sending all pass from say 85 HZ all open above that.

Meaning nothing below and preventing excursion, and usually a first order single cap filtering the frequencies.


Components have usually a low pass for the woofer, needing a HP from the HU or amplifier.
You are going to spend more for components, you better have a decent amp or HU with a HPF 

Since no High Pass filter was used for the woofers, and ghetto low frequencies below 30hz were sent to the woofer, over excursion not capable by 6 " speaker took place, combine that with the low power from the HU and heat generated trying to drive a speaker with a more complex 3 way crossover, sending power to the mids and tweeters, by the time some power was left for the woofers, it was clipped power that made things worse, add bass boost, bass at max or loudness and there you go, extreme abuse, damage caused by lack of clean power, lack of HPF, and playing frequencies below 30hz without a filter that components need, and coax do not need since they are designed for cheap radios in most cases.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

mmfg1 said:


> Jeez why is everyone being so rude.. I do understand OP when he mentioned Focal didnt value him as a customer.. I purchased a Focal 33wx2 and asked whether it is a replica or genuine Focal never heard back from them.. Purchased a focal headphone - and the headband cracked - emailed Focal - never heard back until I wrote a review.. Do I love Focal as a brand - Yes theyre subs are amazing but they really need to improve their customer service.. Would Audison and Dynaudio do this? The answer is NO.. Every questions - I have asked they emailed me back within 1 day.


mmfg1, the "rudeness" that you speak of is more then likely the response of posters who could not convince the OP that Focal is NOT the source of his speaker problem and that the failure that he experienced was MUCH more likely caused by user error-- IE his or his installer overdriving the oem amplifier and running his brand new, expensive Focal speakers with a clipped signal which destroyed them in short order. OP did not understand what some knowledgeable people were telling him and he seemed to focused ONLY on the fact that his cheap oem speakers were NOT destroyed as PROOF that something was wrong with his expensive Focal speakers. ALL the other issues of whether or not Focal should help replace the speakers if they were bought from an authorized versus unauthorized source are moot, because more likely then not, the Focals were destroyed by user error, despite the OPs not understanding this until he FINALLY ( 4 pages and 75 replies!!!) understood my explanation. 

BTW, I am more then sure that NEITHER Dynaudio or Audison would replace parts that were bought from unauthorized distributors and were destroyed by user error. If you think otherwise, you are mistaken. And if YOU actaully read the thread, Focal DID in fact reply to his and his installers querys, but they were unwilling and unable to help him due to his accidental purchase of their product OUTSIDE of their legitimate dist network. I am going to guess here (caveat I might be wrong about this next part) the ONLY manufacturer that I am aware of that MIGHT help out in a situation like this would probably be HAT, but I am sure that they still would not send him new speakers, but rather offer to inspect and repair the ones that he damaged for a reasonable fee.

FYI-- Like many people here, I am NOT trying to be rude by telling you the facts, though I am in fact trying to be right..LOL And all that being said, I have ZERO experience with Focals customer service, so you may well be right about that, just not how it applies to the OP's situation!!


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

One person not willing to admit a mistake or mistakes were made, and a hundred trying to convince him they were. Gotta love the internet, been there done that in both places .

OP the toughest thing sometimes is to just admit a mistake was made at some level and let things be. We can help you tune your show vehicle once you get everything sorted out.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

seafish said:


> Both SkizeR and VictorInox mentioned amp clipping as the possible source of your problem. Clipping is caused by OVERdriving an UNDERpowered amp and it causes DC voltage , instead of pure AC voltage, to be sent to the VC. DC voltage forces the VC ONLY in one direction up against its physical limits until the clipping briefly stops. Like when you connect a 9volt battery to your speaker to check polarity/phase and the cone moves either only in or only out until the battery is disconnected, Repeated driving of a VC to its physical limits with DC contaminated voltage will quickly destroy a speaker. Nuff said!!!
> 
> 
> PLEASE just watch the vids and then report back what you think.


someone correct me if im wrong, but when an amp clips i dont think it produces dc current. that was just sonics way of explaining how it causes the subwoofer to act


edit, the first comment thread on the video you posted is amazing.


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## Lou Frasier2 (Jul 17, 2012)

Doc Fluty said:


> Yes, the Focal amps are still sitting in my garage waiting on the trunk build to start. Those mid bass are only being powered from the factory unit using the factory wiring. I took the woofers out myself when they started to crack and saw the original wires and connectors.
> 
> Thank you for your post hot9dog.
> 
> ...


you do realize that this is the internet and everything posted here is more than likely just garbage,right?dont let **** get you pissed,these guys are busting your balls to see what kind of temprement you have ,just get your situation fixed and move on,


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> someone correct me if im wrong, but when an amp clips i dont think it produces dc current. that was just sonics way of explaining how it causes the subwoofer to act


SkizeR. WHAT?? You DARE to correct me?? Hahahaha

In fact, while I thought that's what happened with amp clipping,I can find NO proof that it IS what happens with a clipped signal…me thinks I must have been confusing diode failure in an alternator causing AC leakage from an alternator to car electronic system to what I described happening to an AC clipped signal…prolly my bad. 

Hope that a diyma amp tech or other expert chimes in here. That being said, being wrong about that does not change the fact that a clipped signal WILL readily destroy a speaker.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

SlizeR...here is a tech link that suggests I may well be correct about the DC voltage thing being the problem. Technical, but also short and concise--

Power Amplifier Clipping


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

seafish said:


> SkizeR. WHAT?? You DARE to correct me?? Hahahaha
> 
> In fact, while I thought that's what happened with amp clipping,I can find NO proof that it IS what happens with a clipped signal…me thinks I must have been confusing diode failure in an alternator causing AC leakage from an alternator to car electronic system to what I described happening to an AC clipped signal…prolly my bad.
> 
> Hope that a diyma amp tech or other expert chimes in here. That being said, being wrong about that does not change the fact that a clipped signal WILL readily destroy a speaker.


i blame sonic. such a poor way to explain it, and tons of people out there are probably misinterpreting that analogy as truth.


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## arachni42 (Aug 22, 2015)

seafish said:


> SkizeR. WHAT?? You DARE to correct me?? Hahahaha
> 
> In fact, while I thought that's what happened with amp clipping,I can find NO proof that it IS what happens with a clipped signal…me thinks I must have been confusing diode failure in an alternator causing AC leakage from an alternator to car electronic system to what I described happening to an AC clipped signal…prolly my bad.
> 
> Hope that a diyma amp tech or other expert chimes in here. That being said, being wrong about that does not change the fact that a clipped signal WILL readily destroy a speaker.


I've seen "clipping turns AC into DC, and that's what kills speakers!!" all over the place, so it seems to be common to think that. I've also heard that clipping is like DC (ie. analogous), but I think it's a really confusing analogy.

My own conclusion has been that it doesn't have anything to do with the type of current, and everything to do with sending too much power (even if it's a low-wattage amp) and/or frequencies the driver was not designed to handle. Clipping is a symptom that can happen when this is occurring.

I'm interested in corrections/clarifications, too.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I never seen factory system clipping to the point of DC destroying speakers, I`m not saying it`s impossible just very unlikely. unless Focal impedance half of the factory speakers. I don`t care enough to look it up myself.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Victor_inox said:


> I never seen factory system clipping to the point of DC destroying speakers, I`m not saying it`s impossible just very unlikely. unless Focal impedance half of the factory speakers. I don`t care enough to look it up myself.


Victor, please do read that last link I posted--

Power Amplifier Clipping

You build amps and preamps and would likely understand it much better then I can. I promise it is relatively short and concise and likely easy to understand for an EE and you could clarify this for all of us!! 

I'll give you a rep point if you do!!! LOL


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Just thought I would mention this.
Many of today's factory HUs now have built-in amplification instead of separate amps.
A number of Honda's HUs for example are rated at 50w per channel so this is something to keep in mind. 
But honestly I think Victor is onto something regarding impedance differences between the factory 6x9s and the Focal 6.5s.
The ohms rating is sometimes inked on the magnet or basket of the factory speaker so it would be worth a look.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## SHAGGS (Apr 24, 2011)

I wonder if the C/O's were the "fixed" dual input ones....? 
If not, the single input ones suffered from low Ohm swing issues due to the midbass, which are 2 Ohm.
They kept sending amps into protect mode, so Orca added the dedicated set of inputs, just for the midbass.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

A lot of power and excursion is what will separate or damage the spider, but shouldn't the surrounds break before the spider separates?

The speakers were already damaged on that video, the surrounds not, maybe they were counterfit drivers that broke with minimal excursion.



Also, don't car manufacturers always rate the maximum power based on peak power? 
RMS power Usually being 1/4 of the rated peak power. 

In any case, no HPF from focal to the woofer or the HU, user sets bass at maximum level and volume thinking a $2k speaker set can handle max volume, max bass, for 1 hr, then poof the counterfit or focal speakers could not handle the abuse or excursion.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

RMS power is 1/8 of the max...


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Victor_inox said:


> RMS power is 1/8 of the max...


Thanks for clarification, that makes it even worse then.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

seafish said:


> Victor, please do read that last link I posted--
> 
> Power Amplifier Clipping
> 
> ...


 I don`t think I can put it any easier than that. 
Or I would be writing electronics for dummies instead of building amplifiers. 

To summarise that article:
"In all descriptions that follow, it is assumed that the amplifier is driving the loudspeaker directly (not using a passive crossover network). While the caps in a passive crossover will save the mid and tweeter drivers from being subjected to the DC, the woofer will still be affected, regardless of the frequency that clips."
what is obviously not explained in that article is that lower Focal impedance(if that really is the case) causing clipping at much lower levels than with factory drivers.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Just thought I would mention this.
> Many of today's factory HUs now have built-in amplification instead of separate amps.
> A number of Honda's HUs for example are rated at 50w per channel so this is something to keep in mind.
> But honestly I think Victor is onto something regarding impedance differences between the factory 6x9s and the Focal 6.5s.
> ...


I have a 2012 Acura MDX with the base stereo system. The tweeters on the dash are 6 ohms and the woofers in the front doors are 2 ohms. I don't know what the rear doors are.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Victor_inox said:


> I don`t think I can put it any easier than that.
> Or I would be writing electronics for dummies instead of building amplifiers.
> 
> To summarise that article:
> ...


Victor, THANKS for the easy translation…you get a rep point whether you care or not LOL.

Soooooo,,,, SkizeR, there IS in fact DC voltage produced (or perhaps conducted to the speaker leads would be better said) when an amp is driven to clipping and a speaker is unprotected by a passive crossover. And somehow the DC voltage does contribute to the damage of the voice coil. From further reading, it may well be that the linear movement induced by DC voltage to full excursion without the fully balanced reciprocating movement back to reverse excursion contributes to the voice coil overheating as three is no longer enough forward/\backward excursions to properly COOL the VC, plus the continued and repeated extreme excursion of the cone to its physical limits damages the speaker as well, which is in fact the noise that you are hearing during clipping.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

seafish said:


> Victor, THANKS for the easy translation…you get a rep point whether you care or not LOL.
> 
> Soooooo,,,, SkizeR, there IS in fact DC voltage produced (or perhaps conducted to the speaker leads would be better said) when an amp is driven to clipping and a speaker is unprotected by a passive crossover. And somehow the DC voltage does contribute to the damage of the voice coil. From further reading, it may well be that the linear movement induced by DC voltage to full excursion without the fully balanced reciprocating movement back to reverse excursion contributes to the voice coil overheating as three is no longer enough forward/\backward excursions to properly COOL the VC, plus the continued and repeated extreme excursion of the cone to its physical limits damages the speaker as well, which is in fact the noise that you are hearing during clipping.


So under clipping I should be able to measure dc voltage? I'm not very familiar with how amps work as I've never really looked into it. Every time I do I just get way to bored lol. So let's also assume it is dc current.. what happens to that signal when it is put through a passive crossover? Since we know capacitors block dc current. About your last point.. when clipping your not hearing the speaker bottom out, your hearing distortion (unless it was bottoming out also, but trust me, you would KNOW when that's happening. It's not fun lol)

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

I went out and bought me a multi-meter to test some stuff out. Here I took the woofer out and measured it to see whatever i see... i think i did it right.

https://youtu.be/0VxHG7ct4WU

Is there any way to use the multi-meter to measure the signal going into the speaker... using the speaker wires to find out if maybe the amp is what did it to the speaker?

BTW... here is a shot of the factory terminal being tapped into for use with the Focal driver... for those who seem to think i lied about using only the factory system.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

because it still made noise, it's most likely going to show good impedance. i wouldn't test it upside down on the cone like that though. i'd also make sure to push evenly if you're trying to feel something. if you just push one side, depending on how you do it, many speakers will rub the voice coil.


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## Doc Fluty (Jun 29, 2009)

jtaudioacc said:


> i wouldn't test it upside down on the cone like that though.


The replacement woofers are already at my dealer, just got to go pick them up.

These will prolly end up being tossed in the trash or kept as garage decoration lol


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