# Pioneer Premier TS-C720PRS



## coffee_junkee

After waiting for a couple of weeks for them to arrive, these bad boys are finally here! I will do my best to keep the review into two separate portions: First all the objective facts about these and secondly, the subjective listening test.

*Box, Packaging and Manual*: The box looks like ordinary Pioneer, only the gold foil printing of the model number hints of the goodness that await inside. Everything is packaged individually and the set includes the speakers themselves, brackets for 5x7's, uni mount brackets for just about any 6.5" hole, tweeter wedge mount, tweeter hidden mount, crossovers and a gaggle of hardware. Folks, the Pioneer guys were very thorough in making sure they arrive in one piece and with everything you would need to have them playing in reasonable time. The manual is a series of practically inconprehensible pictograms, but does sport a very complete list of the Thiele-Small parameters for the woofer and crossover specs for running them active. The inside box lid also features a series of cut-outs for all the included mounting componetry. 

*Price and Availability*: As many of you well know, I'm a bargain hunter and shop carefully for the best bang for the buck. These carry a suggested retail of $550 from Pioneer and can be had (or could hopefully be had again) for the tidy sum of $217 shipped, off eBay. Shiza, that's %50 off RRP! I purchased mine from "hificaraudioonline". I'll reserve judgement on my buying experience for now, but the 720's arrived in one piece and the box was factory sealed with all the serial numbers still there. Ebay is fresh out, but our friends at woofersetc.com, have plenty and the $50 price penalty over eBay is neglegable.

*Meat and Potatos* I lugged these heavy guys out of the styrofoam to be greeted by the most elegant looking woofers these eyes have seen in some time. They feel damn near indestructable at a less than svelte 6 pounds each! The basket and solid aluminum phase plug were carefully painted and appear to have been spit shined by the Chinese assembly folks before being boxed up. The 3 layer cone is thin, very rigid and terminates to a firm, microfiber surround. The voice coil appears to be just shy of 2" in diameter and all the glue work was performed without any slop. The screw down wire clasps are of a high quality and the tinsle leads are glued appropriately to the cone to prevent slap while you are showing off to friends! Guys, the woofers are worth $200 alone, they're that nice.










The tweeter is a soft dome made from treated Tetron fabric. The housing itself is sealed, damped and made from machined aluminum. The dome is protected by three thin resin bars and no other grilles are provided. Bummer on the grilles because these sound so good, you wouldn't want anything untoward to happen to them!  The mounting options are flush, reverse flush and two-angle surface. The speaker leads are already soldered to the tweeter and that's fine with me.










*Listening* I carefully placed the set into my 2 cube test enclosures, rearranged my livingroom and placed them on 18", lead filled, spiked stands. 

I first placed them off axis as that is how they would typically be installed in your car. Pioneer really did their homework with the off axis response as they sound great like this. The image was stable, wide and had very good depth in my smallish room. A real sense of space was represented on Fiona Apple's track _Slow like honey_ and her voice was simply haunting. With my eyes closed, it really felt like a much bigger room and the detail in Fiona's voice was fantastic. Her voice has such delicate changes in pitch that are very hard to reproduce with realism and the Premiers really shine in this aspect. So delicate and airy these Premiers, it seems shameful to put them into my S2000 where I will miss all of their goodness.  

Next up was Becker Brothers cd from 1990, _Return of the Brecker Brothers_. What a great disc for drums, upright bass and let's not forget the horns! Some of the tracks from this disc were on a great compliation cd from Boston Acoustics in the early 90's. Anyway, the 720's have hardcore bass extention for their size. The upright came over uncolored and each note was rendered with ease even as he played briskly on track 4. Impressive too was the midrange detail where my ears tire after a bit of cheap speaker torture. There was no audible dips or distortion at the 2k crossover point that I could hear. Just smooth all over with my only real complaint being that the tweeter had a touch more sparkle when I turned them on axis. Nothing a touch of eq couldn't bring back for sure. 

Right now I'm doing a hodge podge of cd's from Dave Matthews to Dr. Dre. They don't really like rap too much. It could be the piss poor recording quality of most hip-hop, but they just don't sound natural like that. The rendering of rap seemed almost fake. I dunno. They were punchy and the bass is clean, I just think they really are accurate enough to reveal all sorts of flaws. Initially I thought the rap sounded bad because my ears were fatigued, but damn did Dave sound as good as ever! Dave's Matthew's solo album _Some Devil_ has a great track entitled _Gravedigger_. His voice is raw here and the Premiers remained faithful, centering his voice just above the guitar with the drums just behind and to the right. Amazing stability here. I went back to the rap and it still sounded somewhat bad. Mabye I'm just not in a hip hop mood tonight. 

Overall, these things are a steal and they don't really need tons of power to get loud. 100w a side would be plenty for the average listener and 200 for headroom junkies like myself!  I like the gains a minimum..

Feel free to ask any questions and I will post better pics when my GF brings the good camera back.


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## zfactor

iyo how was the lower end?? in car as i listened they were fantastic.. wondering maybe if the enclosure you were using was to large you did say 2 cube correct?? ill add that the tweeters never seemed to bright to my ears and they get crossed over low enough that they just had awsome midrange response. almost undetectable at the x-over point to me

i can add i didnt think they were as good on a good metal album though they seemd to not like to be played as "fast" as some others ive played with..


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## zfactor

coffee what other sets have you had listening tests with that you could say?? and where do these stand in that mix??

reason ive been asking so many opinion questions is im doing a bit of research for a certain company i can not name.. they are looking at other speakers to model from.. wondering what other people want to hear and what type of sound they are looking for...


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## matdotcom2000

What other speakers have you listened to, in order to compair to these?


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## bassfromspace

coffee_junkee said:


> After waiting for a couple of weeks for them to arrive, these bad boys are finally here! I will do my best to keep the review into two separate portions: First all the objective facts about these and secondly, the subjective listening test.
> 
> *Box, Packaging and Manual*: The box looks like ordinary Pioneer, only the gold foil printing of the model number hints of the goodness that await inside. Everything is packaged individually and the set includes the speakers themselves, brackets for 5x7's, uni mount brackets for just about any 6.5" hole, tweeter wedge mount, tweeter hidden mount, crossovers and a gaggle of hardware. Folks, the Pioneer guys were very thorough in making sure they arrive in one piece and with everything you would need to have them playing in reasonable time. The manual is a series of practically inconprehensible pictograms, but does sport a very complete list of the Thiele-Small parameters for the woofer and crossover specs for running them active. The inside box lid also features a series of cut-outs for all the included mounting componetry.
> 
> *Price and Availability*: As many of you well know, I'm a bargain hunter and shop carefully for the best bang for the buck. These carry a suggested retail of $550 from Pioneer and can be had (or could hopefully be had again) for the tidy sum of $217 shipped, off eBay. Shiza, that's %50 off RRP! I purchased mine from "hificaraudioonline". I'll reserve judgement on my buying experience for now, but the 720's arrived in one piece and the box was factory sealed with all the serial numbers still there. Ebay is fresh out, but our friends at woofersetc.com, have plenty and the $50 price penalty over eBay is neglegable.
> 
> *Meat and Potatos* I lugged these heavy guys out of the styrofoam to be greeted by the most elegant looking woofers these eyes have seen in some time. They feel damn near indestructable at a less than svelte 6 pounds each! The basket and solid aluminum phase plug were carefully painted and appear to have been spit shined by the Chinese assembly folks before being boxed up. The 3 layer cone is thin, very rigid and terminates to a firm, microfiber surround. The voice coil appears to be just shy of 2" in diameter and all the glue work was performed without any slop. The screw down wire clasps are of a high quality and the tinsle leads are glued appropriately to the cone to prevent slap while you are showing off to friends! Guys, the woofers are worth $200 alone, they're that nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tweeter is a soft dome made from treated Tetron fabric. The housing itself is sealed, damped and made from machined aluminum. The dome is protected by three thin resin bars and no other grilles are provided. Bummer on the grilles because these sound so good, you wouldn't want anything untoward to happen to them!  The mounting options are flush, reverse flush and two-angle surface. The speaker leads are already soldered to the tweeter and that's fine with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Listening* I carefully placed the set into my 2 cube test enclosures, rearranged my livingroom and placed them on 18", lead filled, spiked stands.
> 
> I first placed them off axis as that is how they would typically be installed in your car. Pioneer really did their homework with the off axis response as they sound great like this. The image was stable, wide and had very good depth in my smallish room. A real sense of space was represented on Fiona Apple's track _Slow like honey_ and her voice was simply haunting. With my eyes closed, it really felt like a much bigger room and the detail in Fiona's voice was fantastic. Her voice has such delicate changes in pitch that are very hard to reproduce with realism and the Premiers really shine in this aspect. So delicate and airy these Premiers, it seems shameful to put them into my S2000 where I will miss all of their goodness.
> 
> Next up was Becker Brothers cd from 1990, _Return of the Brecker Brothers_. What a great disc for drums, upright bass and let's not forget the horns! Some of the tracks from this disc were on a great compliation cd from Boston Acoustics in the early 90's. Anyway, the 720's have hardcore bass extention for their size. The upright came over uncolored and each note was rendered with ease even as he played briskly on track 4. Impressive too was the midrange detail where my ears tire after a bit of cheap speaker torture. There was no audible dips or distortion at the 2k crossover point that I could hear. Just smooth all over with my only real complaint being that the tweeter had a touch more sparkle when I turned them on axis. Nothing a touch of eq couldn't bring back for sure.
> 
> Right now I'm doing a hodge podge of cd's from Dave Matthews to Dr. Dre. They don't really like rap too much. It could be the piss poor recording quality of most hip-hop, but they just don't sound natural like that. The rendering of rap seemed almost fake. I dunno. They were punchy and the bass is clean, I just think they really are accurate enough to reveal all sorts of flaws. Initially I thought the rap sounded bad because my ears were fatigued, but damn did Dave sound as good as ever! Dave's Matthew's solo album _Some Devil_ has a great track entitled _Gravedigger_. His voice is raw here and the Premiers remained faithful, centering his voice just above the guitar with the drums just behind and to the right. Amazing stability here. I went back to the rap and it still sounded somewhat bad. Mabye I'm just not in a hip hop mood tonight.
> 
> Overall, these things are a steal and they don't really need tons of power to get loud. 100w a side would be plenty for the average listener and 200 for headroom junkies like myself!  I like the gains a minimum..
> 
> Feel free to ask any questions and I will post better pics when my GF brings the good camera back.


Throw some Roots in. Dr. Dre tends to have cd's that are mastered pretty well. Nice review.


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## coffee_junkee

zfactor said:


> coffee what other sets have you had listening tests with that you could say?? and where do these stand in that mix??
> 
> reason ive been asking so many opinion questions is im doing a bit of research for a certain company i can not name.. they are looking at other speakers to model from.. wondering what other people want to hear and what type of sound they are looking for...


Geez, where to start on prior comps...  Rainbow, O/S MB Quart, Morel, Alpine F#1, Diamond Hex, Diamond D9, JL ZR, Boston Pro, PG RSd, Ti Elite... So many over the years!

I would probably liken their sound most to the Morel Elate's, but the midrange and lower extention are far better here. Just real smooth and airy on the top end with exqusite midrange detail. After sleeping on it, for albeit only 6 hours, I'm left feeling that the set shines for someone that likes their music at 7/10ths volume with copious amounts of clarity and detail. 

If at all possible, I would like to reserve final judgement on the rap/hip-hop issue until I can get a listen to some better material. I do have _Tripping Point_, by the Roots and Eminem's _Marshall Mathers LP_ which I feel is well mastered. They will be played all day for more break in time so we shall see tonight if my ears like them more, or less!

Oh, as far as the enclosure size; I think they might have been big, but my doors are approximately 2 cubes, and sealed very well. Since that is where they will be installed, I wanted to see how they would sound in that amount of space. I will plug the specs into WinISD, see what it says and post the results here.

Keep the questions up if you have any and I will post the T/S parameters if anyone is interested in plotting their own graphs!

Gotta go, my coffee is getting cold, yeech


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## zfactor

what is your opinion with metal or harder rock stuff?? you may not be a fan but that stuff sure gives most speakers a heck of a work out..


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## coffee_junkee

zfactor said:


> what is your opinion with metal or harder rock stuff?? you may not be a fan but that stuff sure gives most speakers a heck of a work out..


During the hodge podge session, I did listen to a couple of Smashing Pumpkins tracks. One of my favorites, "Galapogos" from the _Dusk to Dawn _ disc of _Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness_ was mostly, effortlessly rendered. Things got a little iffy about three minutes in where the guitar overdub (Iha and Corgan play no less than 5 different guitars in this track) changes pitch. I did rewind and play that point in the track several times and I think it was a resonance from the terminal cups. The drums in this track have great impact, even at moderate volumes and the Premiers kicked pretty good.

A bit of a departure from the typical layered guitar-like Pumpkin's sound, _Eye_, a collaborative effort from the _Lost Highway _ soundtrack, really got the woofers moving. The electric bass in this song is killer. The woofers seem to have the ability to play well down to about 60-70hz and then start to sound compressed at real high volumes. This likely won't be a problem since most of you will use a subwoofer and your car will boost the output in this range anyway. The tweeter maintained it's composure at high volumes during the heavy bridges. There was a touch of harshness on axis that seemed quite a bit less audible when I spun them off axis. 

Sorry, I don't have anything harder than the Pumpkins.


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## zfactor

good info.. i found them to not be as "fast" i guess as i tend to like. i only got a short while with them but on real heavy stuff they did kinda "give out" a bit.. but then most speakers do with this type of material. i think the only set ive heard in the past that didnt were the qsd's.. but then with those tweeters on the screaming solo's could burn right through your ears at times... lol... these are very distinct and have great tonal character imo.. things sound very "Real" i dont think they are as detailed as some you listed but hold thier own .. especially if you got them at the 200+ price tag ...i dont think there is much out there even at over thier retail that would sound as good, 

did you notice a bit of sibliance from the tweeter?? it may have been the setup i listened to but i noticed they were a bit hot at times. which was suprising from a soft dome and a decent size one at that...


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## zfactor

also are you thinking run active these could fare even better than they do with the passives?? the passives dont use the best of components.. not at all bad but they could be better.. the reason i ask...


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## coffee_junkee

Well, the crossovers leave a bit to be desired, but they're not awful Audiobahn rejects.  I made my amp rack to accomidate them, so they are going in for now. I may switch out the APA100ix for an APA460ix and run them active.

As far as the QSD's, I don't care for them much above 5/10th's power. North of that, they just burn my ears and I have to turn them off. They're fast and accurate, but I don't typically listen to hard material where that's a huge factor. Like I said, Smashing is about as hard as I like.


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## zfactor

lol ... last time i used the qsd's i used the tweeter down in the kicks and there they were okay but still a bit bright...


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## coffee_junkee

I don't know what it is about Quart tweeters, but when I get done listening to them it feels like someone had put a Dremel in my ear with the sanding disc on. Bad.


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## zfactor

but how would you think they fare used active compared to others you mentioned??


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## coffee_junkee

Hard to say, I have only head two of the ones mentioned running active. 

They will have been playing for about 15 hours by the time I get home. I would like another descent session before giving them my formal stamp of approval.

At RRP, there would be a good fight between a couple I mentioned, but at street prices it's going to be tough to beat these.


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## rekd0514

Ya they are definately some heavy drivers, can't imagine why, they comprise of mostly metal. haha I was talking to Marv about some baffles he is making right now for these midbass drivers and we noticed something. He needed the diameter measurments for them, so I got out the ruler. I measured the diameter without the tabs and it was only 6 1/16" and only 6 1/2" with them. Obviously a lot smaller than the 6 3/4" that they advertise on the box. I don't know where the hell the got that. For fun I also measured the cone and cone (with surround) diameters. I came up with 4 13/16" for the cone and 5 9/16" with the surround. Just something to notice, since you are getting a lot less than you think.

From your review, they seem like a very awesome set especially for the money. Pretty much everyone else that has heard them has gave the great reviews. I should be very happy with them feeding them 100RMS. I can't wait to hear them!


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## coffee_junkee

rekd0514 said:


> From your review, they seem like a very awesome set especially for the money. Pretty much everyone else that has heard them has gave the great reviews. I should be very happy with them feeding them 100RMS. I can't wait to hear them!


After another good session last night, I took them out of the test enclosures and started to install the woofers into the S. I haven't decided on tweeter placement so I'm going to do some experimenting before building anything permanent.

To sum up the review, I really like these speakers. Are they the best? No. Are they the best for $220? Hands down hell yeah. I don't think that the PG's, Diamond Hex, or lower end Quart could hold a candle to these. The Morel Elates have better tweeter extention and a touch more detail, but less midbass. The Premiers don't like to be played real hard or they lose composure on the top end and its exaggerated if they're on axis. Basically, don't buy these thinking they will like hour upon hour sessions of Judas Priest and you'll be fine.

Hopefully they will surface on the cheap again real soon.


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## zfactor

not so good with metal then... damn and i bought a set... oh well


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## zfactor

coffee have you heard these in comparison to the polk sr set or the spx set from alpine?? im curious about the thoughts?? looking for the wife's car for just a good mid priced 2 way set?? i dont have enough seat time with the spx's.. and the polk set was semi impressive after we set it up right.. thanks


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## z_accoustics

I'm still considering getting these but am puzzled by the bad RAP reproduction (or faithful crappy reproduction).

Can someone compare the dynamics in the midbass and highs of these to that of other 2-ways such as the morel supremo 2-way and dyn system 262. I will mostly be listening to rock, trance and a touch of rap.


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## coffee_junkee

I'll tell you, the passive suck.

I installed them active with the DCX and most of the issues I experienced with them either went away altogether, or were easily dialed out with some light EQ-ing. Much of the roughness at the crossover point went away when used active. Staging was good with the tweeter 30 degrees on axis, mounted on the surface of the A pillar. Distance from mid to tweeter was just shy of 16" and with some careful T/A, the drivers blended together very nicely.

The in door bass response is nothing short of freaking stellar. Vast improvement over my sealed test enclosures. They are very articulate and really get loud without really making the delicate midrange suffer. 

My issue with the heavy metal might just be my aversion to that type of music. A good friend stopped by who loves the stuff and came away very impressed with their performance. He has the PG Xenons and is thinking about switching if that is any indication.

As far as a comparison to the Dyns or Morels; I like the Dyn midbass better, but they need lots more power and the price differential is ugly at best. The Dyn tweeter would likely need little help with the EQ on harder material than either the Pioneers or Morel.


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## Nass027

Thanks for the review.I have just received mine and gutted my Kef Q1's and installed the drivers in there to let them warm up for a little while.In your listening sessions so far have you thought about using the woofer as a midrange only and adding a 7" or 8" midbass?How do you think it would work in that position or are we losing out on the strong bottom end ?Just curious


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## tophatjimmy

Between you and CA&E my interest is very peaked with these. Right now I'm running the 2 ohm Infinity Kappa's and overall I think they're pretty OK (that should indicate how discriminating my tastes are), but my tweets are starting to have problems with breaking up on certain notes.

These sound like a pretty heavy-weight set to try out. I wonder how well they would do running off of a bridged Arc 4150?? Think 320+ watts to each set is a bit too much (properly adjusted, of course)?

Now, I work for a Focal dealer, so I can get that stuff at cost so here's another question. At this price point, how do you think these would compare to say the 6.5" K2 Power set (same amp/power to both)?

Thanks again for the stellar review.


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## zfactor

only thing i never liked were focals tweeters they always seemed a bit harsh but then i listen to a lot of hard rock metal.. this stuff sounds pretty nasty on many tweets... so far im liking these. a bit "dull" for me they dont have the liveliness i normally like. these remind me more of morel or dyn as mentioned. i would prefer more of the rainbow seas stuff i think ive heard rainbow and loved them. never ended up with them due to me always wanting the top line stuff and thier top shelf stuff is way to expensive for me... but these are doing good. i dont know about 300+ on them though, my set has 150 to each speaker active and the mids are crying it seems at times.. they can get loud but as someone else said they dont like to be overpushed.. they sound really great till that point though... i can say after using them in my own car for 2 days they are a hell of a bargin and much better than anything imo out there in thier price range, now cost on other stuff is not really fair though....


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## tophatjimmy

just trying to do apples to apples as far as my wallet is concerned.  

I just cannot find a set of speakers that sounds how I want and I'm too cheap and lazy to get all complicated-like and enter the DSP/Active arena.

So if I can snag a set of these, I probably will. If I don't really like them all that well, I'll let you guys have first dibs at 'em.

Too bad I can't bi-amp them. I got this nice 4 channel amp and I'm not really using all of it....


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## coffee_junkee

tophatjimmy said:


> Between you and CA&E my interest is very peaked with these. Right now I'm running the 2 ohm Infinity Kappa's and overall I think they're pretty OK (that should indicate how discriminating my tastes are), but my tweets are starting to have problems with breaking up on certain notes.
> 
> These sound like a pretty heavy-weight set to try out. I wonder how well they would do running off of a bridged Arc 4150?? Think 320+ watts to each set is a bit too much (properly adjusted, of course)?
> 
> Now, I work for a Focal dealer, so I can get that stuff at cost so here's another question. At this price point, how do you think these would compare to say the 6.5" K2 Power set (same amp/power to both)?
> 
> Thanks again for the stellar review.



My bench amp is a barely used, vintage PPI ProMOS 425. It's conservatively rated at 4x25, but actually more like 4x60 at 14v, 4 ohm stereo. They get plenty loud with this amount of power and 320w with the passives will ruin the sound quality in the oh so delicate midrange. Trust me, dump the passives that come with the set and use your 4150 to run them active. Let me be real clear on this: THE PASSIVES INCLUDED WITH THIS SET ARE SHAT!!  They are however useful for other things like a paperweights or coffee table conversation pieces.

I will be using them in conjunction with a Elemental Designs eu700 in the right footwell of my S2. Only real reason is for extra bass response with the top down.

zfactor: I see that our ears are in agreement as to their sound characteristics. They are laid back and easy going on the old ears. These are speakers you can listen to for hours at moderate volumes and not think twice about it. Try that with some Quarts or Focal K2P's...


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## zfactor

lol i like my highs.. and i like my more detailed in your face sound... but i just cant stand when i have to basically eq out a tweeter.. i actually like how detailed the quarts are and how anal they are with the sound but man after a few songs tinitus city right there.. only thing i wish is these had is a more foward lively sound. but i dont think ill ever be happy..lol


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## coffee_junkee

zfactor said:


> but i dont think ill ever be happy..lol


Same here, that's why we spend countless hours attempting audio nirvana a noisy ass car! Love it!


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## zfactor

i may try the new lotus set out... have you heard those?? they seem to be everything these are and more lively from what others have said.. any inout on them just dont know if they will be "that much better" to where its worth the near 650$ without the x-overs i can get them for.. i can grab another set of these from a friend who has a new set for 200$... are the new lotus worth an extra 450$?? hmmmm i wish i could hear them...


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## Nass027

coffee_junkee said:


> I'll tell you, the passive suck.
> 
> I installed them active with the DCX and most of the issues I experienced with them either went away altogether, or were easily dialed out with some light EQ-ing. Much of the roughness at the crossover point went away when used active. Staging was good with the tweeter 30 degrees on axis, mounted on the surface of the A pillar. Distance from mid to tweeter was just shy of 16" and with some careful T/A, the drivers blended together very nicely.
> 
> The in door bass response is nothing short of freaking stellar. Vast improvement over my sealed test enclosures. They are very articulate and really get loud without really making the delicate midrange suffer.
> 
> My issue with the heavy metal might just be my aversion to that type of music. A good friend stopped by who loves the stuff and came away very impressed with their performance. He has the PG Xenons and is thinking about switching if that is any indication.
> 
> As far as a comparison to the Dyns or Morels; I like the Dyn midbass better, but they need lots more power and the price differential is ugly at best. The Dyn tweeter would likely need little help with the EQ on harder material than either the Pioneers or Morel.


Where did you have them crossed over at in the vehicle?also,would they make a good dedicated midrange?Thanks for leading the way here.


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## Nass027

zfactor said:


> only thing i never liked were focals tweeters they always seemed a bit harsh but then i listen to a lot of hard rock metal.. this stuff sounds pretty nasty on many tweets... so far im liking these. a bit "dull" for me they dont have the liveliness i normally like. these remind me more of morel or dyn as mentioned. i would prefer more of the rainbow seas stuff i think ive heard rainbow and loved them. never ended up with them due to me always wanting the top line stuff and thier top shelf stuff is way to expensive for me... but these are doing good. i dont know about 300+ on them though, my set has 150 to each speaker active and the mids are crying it seems at times.. they can get loud but as someone else said they dont like to be overpushed.. they sound really great till that point though... i can say after using them in my own car for 2 days they are a hell of a bargin and much better than anything imo out there in thier price range, now cost on other stuff is not really fair though....


Have you heard any of the Diamond Audio stuff,namely D661S?I have an unopened box and have never heard any of the DA stuff and wanted to know if you could compare the pioneer sound to them at all?It would be easier to sell an un-opened box.  I am liking the way the Pioneer's are breaking in in there home speaker boxes right now.Thanks


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## zfactor

im not a diamond fan.. i have no experience with the set you mentioned but i know the last diamond stuff i really liked was the old eton made sets the greenish cones.. after that i lost interest. i have heard the d9 set is nice but they need hella amounts of power.


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## coffee_junkee

Nass027 said:


> Where did you have them crossed over at in the vehicle?also,would they make a good dedicated midrange?Thanks for leading the way here.


I just got back from St.Louis, sorry for the delayed response 

I crossed the tweeter at 2000, 18db slope and the mid at 1900 at 18db slope.

They are available in a 5" set, that would probably make a better set for use as a dedicated midrange. If you download the .pdf installation manual from Pioneer's website, they have a frequency plot printed on them. I think the 5 would fit in a kick panel much easier than the 6".


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## saintb

coffee,

Let us know how the Roots and M+M sound.


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## coffee_junkee

saintb said:


> coffee,
> 
> Let us know how the Roots and M+M sound.


My Eminem CD seems to be MIA... 

I did get to listen to the Roots and they performed much better in the car. Again, I don't think my test enclosures were the best thing for them and neither were the passive crossovers. Only the very lowest notes caused my ears any alarm and the lower midbass has such authority. For fun, I added my eU-700 in it's hokey-poke enclosure; Fixed the bottom end problem very nicely. While I wasn't having heart palpitations from the volume, the whole system was very musical and clean.

Bottom line here, the in door response of the woofers are great. I think Pioneer designed them for use here and that's why they sounded somewhat less authoritative in my two cube, sealed test enclosures.


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## saintb

cool. thanks.

-saintb

PS does anyone here ever like any of the passive x-overs? LOL! No, but seriously folks (pause).... I know this is the diy mobile audio boards, but some passive x-overs have to get a positive rating?!?!?!


----------



## The Blue Blur

maybe some from Genesis? Rainbow Platinums? I know the Germaniums got some appreciation for all their adjustability.


----------



## jearhart

steve head is using the DLS passive in his comp vehicle. he says they are that good. 

go read his "big meat" thread on ECA


----------



## saintb

zfactor + coffee,

Does Rainbow (Vanadium or Profi) offer better clarity, and/or response? 

Would the 6.5 "Kick's" mid-bass be in the same class (80hz and up)?


----------



## coffee_junkee

saintb said:


> zfactor + coffee,
> 
> Does Rainbow (Vanadium or Profi) offer better clarity, and/or response?
> 
> Would the 6.5 "Kick's" mid-bass be in the same class (80hz and up)?


I can't comment on the Rainbow versus these as I have only heard Profi's for a short time.. Sorry


----------



## saintb

C_J,

I also have a convertable (of different sorts). My main concern with the PRS components is that they will not be clear enough at higher volumes. I am not a spl guy, but the air-cooled engine in my 73' VW Thing is loud, so I do need a considerable amount of volume during my 45 mile commute on the highways.

(FYI, The Thing does not have a firewall, so I am diy-ing my own with 3 types of Cascade brand matting. That and some clean, detailed 2-ways (with good mid-bass) will make my life much better)


----------



## zfactor

cant say to much about rainbow either.. wish i could but i have limited experiences with them


----------



## zfactor

i play these pretty loud and so far have not had issues.. depends on how loud is loud


----------



## saintb

You both had concerns about overdriving the PRS... I don't need SPL competition volume... but don't want to listen at too quiet a volume to avoid distortion. So, how hard can the PRS's be pushed? ... can it go to a volume that is above comfortable listening levels?


----------



## coffee_junkee

saintb said:


> You both had concerns about overdriving the PRS... I don't need SPL competition volume... but don't want to listen at too quiet a volume to avoid distortion. So, how hard can the PRS's be pushed? ... can it go to a volume that is above comfortable listening levels?


I have given them generous amounts of power and they get pretty loud before you can hear them strain. They play damn low, but they truly need a subwoofer, especially in a convertable.


----------



## zfactor

yep they get loud enough for any normal person.. if you want them any louder you need more speakers and more power


----------



## rekd0514

I played them a little on a home theatre receiver to break them in and they will definitely be loud enough without distortion. Though I still cant wait to hear them in the car.


----------



## ATB

That plot is the combined response including the passives, correct? I may be blind, but it looks like the passive cuts the tweeter at about 4k and the mid at 2k.



coffee_junkee said:


> I just got back from St.Louis, sorry for the delayed response
> 
> I crossed the tweeter at 2000, 18db slope and the mid at 1900 at 18db slope.
> 
> They are available in a 5" set, that would probably make a better set for use as a dedicated midrange. If you download the .pdf installation manual from Pioneer's website, they have a frequency plot printed on them. I think the 5 would fit in a kick panel much easier than the 6".


----------



## zfactor

yes that is with the passives


----------



## coffee_junkee

rekd0514 said:


> I played them a little on a home theatre receiver to break them in and they will definitely be loud enough without distortion. Though I still cant wait to hear them in the car.


I think you'll be impressed with the in-door response of the mids. They have excellent and articulate bass when installed in well damped doors. My only other thought is that the tweeters got a little brighter in the car, but that's nothing the DCX can't fix.

Still impressed!


----------



## rekd0514

Well I definitely have the doors pretty well deadened. It made a huge difference in the stock system. I have been rolling with it until I get my box and MDF for baffles. It is making the stock system bareable.  I didn't do a perfect job, but it is my first time and I was under somewhat of a time limit. It really takes a long time to deaden a car. I know I worked on it, with the help of my brother at times, for over 18 hours that weekend. The camera I used kind of sucks, but you don't need to see my imperfections anyways. haha

http://www.putfile.com/rekd0514/images/49150


----------



## zfactor

lol you should just feel the weight of my doors.. i have more dyn extreme in there tham most use in their trunk... lol....one of my guys sh$t when he looked in there... my doors make a very very very solid thunk when closed...


----------



## rekd0514

I can imagine..... I don't really want to add tons and tons of weight to my car though and I am not as picky about my sound as most on this site. haha I am still young though, my pickiness may develop. From what I have gathered, once you get to a point, adding more layers will have little or no additional effects.


----------



## monty80au

Hello all,

I am trying to decide between the Pioneer TS-C720PRS and the Infinite Kappa Perfect 6.1. They both seem like good components (plenty of good things said about them) and are available at around the same price on eBay. The PRS seem to be slightly ahead on SQ, but the PRS specs say 50W RMS, 200W peak VS 100W and 400W for the KP.

I'm planning to drive them via an Alpine MRV-F345 (75x4 or 125x2 bridged into 4ohm.) Alongside an Alpine MRD-M1005 amp and SWX-1242D sub (1000W apiece.) 

SO, I was wondering if you could be more specific on the amount of power you are giving the PRS speakers (mine would have 125W or 75W available.) Could they handle that sort of power, and keep up with the sub, or would I be better off with the KP's for louder and cleaner sound?

 

Cheerio!


----------



## coffee_junkee

monty80au said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am trying to decide between the Pioneer TS-C720PRS and the Infinite Kappa Perfect 6.1. They both seem like good components (plenty of good things said about them) and are available at around the same price on eBay. The PRS seem to be slightly ahead on SQ, but the PRS specs say 50W RMS, 200W peak VS 100W and 400W for the KP.
> 
> I'm planning to drive them via an Alpine MRV-F345 (75x4 or 125x2 bridged into 4ohm.) Alongside an Alpine MRD-M1005 amp and SWX-1242D sub (1000W apiece.)
> 
> SO, I was wondering if you could be more specific on the amount of power you are giving the PRS speakers (mine would have 125W or 75W available.) Could they handle that sort of power, and keep up with the sub, or would I be better off with the KP's for louder and cleaner sound?
> 
> 
> 
> Cheerio!


monty80au,

First of all, welcome to the diyma family!

The PRS installed in my car have a 100w per side PPI amp powering them. Having said that, they get very loud and maintain musicality on just about everything I listen to. I don't think 125w is too much as long as you have all your gain structures dialed in and know when to roll back the volume if things get out of linearity.

SQ wise, I feel that the PRS have an edge on the Kappas. Don't get me wrong, the Infin's are great speakers, but I feel the Pio's have a more open, detailed, airy sound for the money. 

Hope this helps and if you need more help, just post away!! -Kris


----------



## monty80au

Thanks for the warm welcome!

I was wondering how much you have run them with the full 100W. Also, not having used a sub before... I'm not sure if 1000W is too much! Seems most of the good quality subs and amps are rated around this mark... except for the crazy SPL ones. On the subject of amps... you obviously like PPI - but there don't seem too many around on eBay, any others u rate?

Also, I'm thinking I might just buy both speakers and sell whichever one I prefer less... Shouldn't be a problem to get rid of - we have ZERO well priced mid/high end gear available in Perth!


----------



## zfactor

prs set no question about it, the prs set will pretty much kill the kp's in all area's i run them great set for the money!!! simply amazing at how good they sound for prices they can be had for


----------



## niceguy

From what I've heard, those Type X subs are very power hungry so 1kw should be plenty fine....quite a few experiences and recommendations regarding those subs over at CA....

Glad to see Pioneer's getting some good reviews....

Jeremy


----------



## jaypine

What is the mounting depth of the Pioneers?


----------



## zfactor

2.6 deep


----------



## ArcL100

zfactor said:


> 2.6 deep


Just like yo mama!

-aaron


----------



## jaypine

zfactor said:


> 2.6 deep


Sweet, they'll fit!


----------



## coffee_junkee

jaypine said:


> Sweet, they'll fit!


Just make sure that there is nothing that would obstruct the huge basket/magnet cover, off to the side. Getting them to go through my Honda's water shield was a real *****. Dremel saved the day...


----------



## WLDock

The mounting depth of these has really got me considering them....as I need a slightly oversized 6.5" with a depth much less than 3".

I read your review and understand these have good midbass response in the door. In your opinion, would you say the midbass is good enough to use these as a dedicated midbass in conjunction with a small midrange?


----------



## coffee_junkee

WLDock said:


> The mounting depth of these has really got me considering them....as I need a slightly oversized 6.5" with a depth much less than 3".
> 
> I read your review and understand these have good midbass response in the door. In your opinion, would you say the midbass is good enough to use these as a dedicated midbass in conjunction with a small midrange?


I assume you're looking to go three way active? 

Was thinking just this morning that a 4" Scan Rev would make these a freaking stellar set. Yes, the midbass is that good. They really have some bite down low when installed in the damped door. Just for fun, I crossed the set over at 50hz, 24db slope to see how loud they would get without having to play sub duty. Impressive, to say the least. Took all 100 watts with ease and felt like they could have taken more had it been available.


----------



## unpredictableacts

anyone know how deep that woofer is? and would it fit in a 350z?


----------



## zfactor

like i said before 2.6" deep but its very large around.. so it would be tough to say


----------



## unpredictableacts

I love the set but I do not want to cut up the Z to fit them.
how would this set compare to 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Crystal-MobileS...ryZ32819QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem


----------



## zfactor

personally i dont think they even would... i really like crystal's stuff but i dont think those will hold up to the 720 set imo


----------



## zfactor

imo if you want a really nice set that will fit try the quart qsc216 at ike sound at 199 its a steal.. but even those i dont think are as good as these are again this is my opinion but seriously if you can get the prs set to fit i dont think anything at the 250$ price point will compare..


----------



## WLDock

unpredictableacts said:


> I love the set but I do not want to cut up the Z to fit them.
> how would this set compare to
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Crystal-MobileS...ryZ32819QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem


You should search around 350Z forums to get more info about aftermarket speaker replacement and see what others have done. In general those cars take a 6 1/2" driver and the depth is 3". You will have to make a custom spacer or modify the factory speaker mount to get speakers in there. 
http://www.350z-tech.com/zwiki/Tutorial:Front_Speaker_Installation

That Crystal SSC6 set is supposed to be a nice set. Speakers are so different and subjective that YOU would have to hear both to know which sounds best to YOU. However, the mids have a 3.1" mounting depth and a 5.75" cutout. May be a stretch to get them to fit???

The Pioneers have a 5.5" cutout...B.T.W. If you can't hear either set...I would go with the Pioneers based on the great reviews and the smaller mounting depth.


----------



## chibahawk

wow i get the feeling I'm about to be sold on these Pioneers.

I'm in the budget market and right now I'm shopping between these, the Kicker SS62.5 for $207, or the Rainbow SLC265 for $230.

What I'm looking for in a speaker is excellent Midbass, a tweeter that's not too harsh, and the ability to get REAL loud. The 50WRMS has me concerned but I see a lot of people are throwing anything at these Pioneers as long as the gains are good.

This would be an upgrade over my CDT CL-61As and I expect it to be night and day difference I guess. Currently I have a ton of deadening sitting in the garage but it's too cold in NY for that just yet.


----------



## JoeHemi57

the pioneer is a very good set, i don't think it will take the power and get to extreme volume levels like the kickers without some distress though.


----------



## Jiggydragon

JoeHemi57 said:


> the pioneer is a very good set, i don't think it will take the power and get to extreme volume levels like the kickers without some distress though.


So yours saying the Kicker SS's would sound better?

Question: Anyone have a Scion tC, because im curious on whether these speakers would fit the fronts and backs of the car. I really like these speakers as far as reviews and stuff go, but my main thing is trying to go as far as I can without buying a sub; I like my trunk-space.

I've had some run-ins with Infinity Kappa Perfects, MB Quart QSD216's, Kicker SS's, Boston Accoustics, and some Kenwood Excelons, oh and Polk Audio's so I have a little bit of an idea as to what the competition would be, but most of those are serious component sets that require a sub because they have little to no mid-bass/low-range.

Any info on the tC stuff would be great =D


----------



## zfactor

imo the kickers will play louder then the pioneers do, but they are not as clean and the prs set def had more midbass imo comparing the two in the installs i heard them in

make sure to check if there is enough size for the kickers... they are very large and the tweeter is also from the dimension on kickers web site larger then the pioneer as well.. just somehting to check on, i dont remember off the top of my head how much room was in there. i di know the tweeter prob will not fit unless you make them or move them

firget the excelons imo, the qsd is a great set if you like the tweeter some do some dont, im not a huge boston fan myself, dont get me wrong they do make good stuff but nothing has ever jumper out to me as being that spectacular again imo, the polk set is nice but to dry or bland i guess for me. the tweeters just didnt seem to excite me and they lost a lot off axis remember when mounting them,


----------



## Jiggydragon

Yea the QSD's were extremely bright, even with the top-down in a S2k. The excelons were handed off to me, so yea I just put them in my grannies Civic for ****s and giggles. The Polk's I got with a gift card to a local car-audio shop, they sound nice but as you said, dry. My main thing is whether or not these would sound good mid-range/low-end. Also, I haven't tried using any baffles behind the speakers, but would they be beneficial on this set? I know you have to enclose the baffles and all but any extra would be nice because believe it or not, the tC does not have much road-noise reducing elements for the 17.7 price tag, go TOYota~


----------



## chibahawk

zfactor said:


> imo the kickers will play louder then the pioneers do, but they are not as clean and the prs set def had more midbass imo comparing the two in the installs i heard them in


ok this helps... quickie - would the PRS-720 get a lot louder then my CDT CL-61a speakers? Basicly I want louder but also much better quality sound and midbass.


----------



## monty80au

In regards to running the 720prs active. What impedance does each amp see? and how many Watts hitting each?

Also, in general, is there a way to estimate impedances from the specs of a comp set, or an "add a tweeter" or "add a woofer" set of speaker + passive x-over - ie - does the passive have much effect on impedance, can impedances be assumed from speaker sensitivity?


----------



## cam2Xrunner

Didn't rear the whole thread to see if someone posted this but check out this price. 
http://www.bargainunlimited.com/servlet/Detail?no=398

They have a decent price on the DEH-P880PRS too.


----------



## ATB

Wow...great price. Have you purchased from this site before?


----------



## camojoe

Just added to the cart and guess what? Shipping costs are $35.00.Comes out to $224.99 with shipping.


----------



## Lanson

Agreed, great prices, but will you have serial numbers, and/or A stock? Let us know, because that IS a great price. Also, they have some nice amps avail, and such.


----------



## zfactor

hell yeah id buy a spare set for that price but they just look crappy imo.. i would def be leary of them unless someone here has used them before.. lmk if you have id grab another set..


----------



## zfactor

lol their email is [email protected] makes me think twice imo
and they have some old stuff listed on there makes me wonder what they really have in stock


----------



## ATB

camojoe said:


> Just added to the cart and guess what? Shipping costs are $35.00.Comes out to $224.99 with shipping.



Woofersetc is $250 + $20 shipping


----------



## Lanson

I'm just weirded out w/ woofersetc.

I mean, they carry a AAA rating from the BBB...but they had a rash of fake Focals?

WTF, right?


----------



## monty80au

That bargains unlimited site is dodgy. They have little to no contact details available, don't list stock availability, and BBB hasn't heard of them either.

Sonicelectronix is only a bit more, have been around a while, CCC rating, admit they don't have the speakers in stock. I just emailed them about it - i'll let you know if they give an ETA.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7537.html
$219.99


----------



## chibahawk

yeah i was considering buying from bargainsunlimited but that could be a bad move..... let us know about the soniceletronix ETA.




also can someone just answer this - I know that these will sound worlds better then my CDT CL-61a speakers.. but will they be louder at the same wattage? Or have the ability to get louder?


----------



## POLKAT

fourthmeal said:


> I'm just weirded out w/ woofersetc.
> 
> I mean, they carry a AAA rating from the BBB...but they had a rash of fake Focals?
> 
> WTF, right?


From what I heard about it, the Focals weren't fake. They had removed part of the serial numbers on the drivers so that they couldn't be traced back to woofersect. by Focal since Focal is threatening to cut off anyone that sells their products below msrp. Still very shady business practice and that probably weirds me out just as much.

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209366


----------



## coffee_junkee

I would probably go with woofersetc for the win! Both purchases I have made there have been A+. Just e-mail them ahead of time to make sure that the item is in stock.


----------



## ATB

For those who have run these active, how high can the woofers play? 2k? 3k?


----------



## monty80au

Sonic electronics will have them (720prs) in 3 weeks as per email from them today. Woofersetc wants $350 to ship 3 items to australia  that basically doubles the cost... still waaay cheaper than retail here tho (if you could even get them - which you can't.)


----------



## coffee_junkee

ATB said:


> For those who have run these active, how high can the woofers play? 2k? 3k?


I had them crossed over at 2800, 24db slope and the tweeters at 3000, 24db slope.

Sounded great like that.


----------



## lbridges

Thought maybe I should post up about Bargains Unlimited.

I decided to give them a try, hoping a new & good source was becoming available and that I could report back positively.

Well, I've not heard squat from them in status, they don't answer e-mails, and calling their telephone results in, "this line has been disconnected".

Now it's up to the bank to see what $$ I get back.

Of course YMMV, but forewarned is forearmed.


----------



## Guest

lbridges said:


> Thought maybe I should post up about Bargains Unlimited.
> 
> I decided to give them a try, hoping a new & good source was becoming available and that I could report back positively.
> 
> Well, I've not heard squat from them in status, they don't answer e-mails, and calling their telephone results in, "this line has been disconnected".
> 
> Now it's up to the bank to see what $$ I get back.
> 
> Of course YMMV, but forewarned is forearmed.


Thats horrible... im sorry to hear that.


----------



## ATB

woofersetc shipped mine the day I called. They did call my house to verify that I had ordered them though. Must have alot of people buying with stolen CC #s.


----------



## vpkb1998

here's the ebay merchant i got my components from

both orders, the shipping were very fast, safe packaging too

http://myworld.ebay.com/audio-club/


----------



## camojoe

I ordered a set from onlinecarstereo the other day.I will post back with results when or if I recieve them.Wish me luck.


----------



## zfactor

they are now back in stock at most distributors so you should all see them popping back up. the price did supposedly go up on them a bit not sure how much as i didnt order any in for the shop yet.. ill be doing that tomm if i have time


----------



## coffee_junkee

Looks like they whored out the first batch to get the buzz going.

Z, how much is the price going up? I'm thinking of getting a second set for the misses.


----------



## zfactor

not to much like prob 20$ or so from what my rep told me, they also raised the prices on some of the other stuff as well


----------



## camojoe

Just checking back in to update members on my purchase.I decided to order a set of these comps from onlinecarstereo.I had no prior experience with this company but they were the only store who had them in stock.Well,I placed my order and hoped for the best.All my fears disappeared yesterday as the little brown truck arrived.Speakers arrived well packed and in perfect condition.BTW,my Rammatt arrived in the same shipment so props to them also.


----------



## Gmack

I have used onlinecarstereo in the past and have gotten good service from them. I recently used sonixelectronix (or however it's spelled) and got good service from them as well.

Gary


----------



## OldOneEye

coffee_junkee said:


> Looks like they whored out the first batch to get the buzz going.
> 
> Z, how much is the price going up? I'm thinking of getting a second set for the misses.


New model year, new price points for pretty much all vendors.

Juan


----------



## OldOneEye

POLKAT said:


> From what I heard about it, the Focals weren't fake. They had removed part of the serial numbers on the drivers so that they couldn't be traced back to woofersect. by Focal since Focal is threatening to cut off anyone that sells their products below msrp. Still very shady business practice and that probably weirds me out just as much.
> 
> http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209366


This doesn't sound like just an issue with altered serial numbers (from above):

1. There was no card with the serial number on it.
2. The butyl rubber surround was cheap looking compared to the real thing. It was dull and not glossy at all.
3. The braided tinsel leads were a dull gray instead of a shiny gold color.
4. The yellow woven fiber cone looked different.
-It was slightly brighter yellow
-Woven material was done in a cheap fashion with lots of space between sections
-It lacked a glossy top coat
5. The white back of the cone was MUCH thinner and less rigid.
6. The plastic rings for the grill had larger holes for the screws that the real ones.
-The inside of the plastic ring was flat, not fitted to the speaker.
-The logo on the grills lacked the holographic finish.


----------



## tankertoad

For yet another comparison question, how would these rate against the OZ Audio Matrix 180CS Elites? Pretty comparable?


----------



## chibahawk

would anyone be able to relate these to the Rainbow SLC265 Kicks? And is the midbass on these speakers very strong? I've been reading up on the Crystal SSC6 that are praised for excellent midbass - just wondering how these speakers would relate to my other options. 

I'm not the type to be switching speakers in and out - I want a good set for a while, so this can be a tough decision for me...


----------



## jaypine

Due to mounting depth I am limited to the following in the price range I'm looking at.

6.5"
Alpine Type X
DLS UP6 6.5
Elemental Designs eDi 6500
Memphis MCSQ6.5
Pioneer Premier TS-C720PRS

5.5"
Peerless Exclusive 830882/ Peerless 810921 or Seas 27 TDFC
Seas L15RLYP / Seas 27 TDFC

Any recommendations for the "best" system? Is the Pioneer the "best" of this group? I can go active or passive crossover.


----------



## coffee_junkee

I can safely say that the Type-X, Elemental, and Memphis won't touch these.

DLS, I haven't heard in a controlled enviroment, but they were pretty good where I heard them.


----------



## jaypine

Thank you, coffee.


----------



## z_accoustics

Hey guys, 

had a couple questions about these.

If I run these passive will I be able to run time alignment on the tweets and woofers separately?

Might SQ be reduced if i run them active due to disgarding the custom xover filters that maybe are tweaked to enphasize strengths and quiet down the weaknesses? (make sense?)

And lastly, will my JL e4300 (http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/eSeries Amps/e4300.pdf) be able to keep up and does the 100 watts per side mean woofer+tweet power = 100? If I run them active what's the suggested wattage per driver?

thanks a lot. i just upgraded my subs and am eager to trash my coaxils and have my front stage up to standards


----------



## GlasSman

If you use the passives you won't be able to delay the tweeters and mids seperatly. Any adjustment would affect the tweeter an mid as a unit. I hear the passives are nothing special so you're better off running them active. And yes if an amp puts out 100 watts per channel, both speakers would share that power if they were run off the passive crossover.


----------



## z_accoustics

So the tweets will be ok with the 47watts my e4300 would be giving them and woofers ok with 100-150watts from my new amp?


----------



## countdown

chibahawk said:


> wow i get the feeling I'm about to be sold on these Pioneers.
> 
> I'm in the budget market and right now I'm shopping between these, the Kicker SS62.5 for $207, or the Rainbow SLC265 for $230.
> 
> What I'm looking for in a speaker is excellent Midbass, a tweeter that's not too harsh, and the ability to get REAL loud. The 50WRMS has me concerned but I see a lot of people are throwing anything at these Pioneers as long as the gains are good.
> 
> This would be an upgrade over my CDT CL-61As and I expect it to be night and day difference I guess. Currently I have a ton of deadening sitting in the garage but it's too cold in NY for that just yet.


I'd also like to know how this PRS compares to the Rainbow SLC265 set. Anyone try both?


----------



## zfactor

yes these tweeter should be fine as long as they are crossed over right


----------



## GlasSman

countdown said:


> I'd also like to know how this PRS compares to the Rainbow SLC265 set. Anyone try both?


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8766

Linky Linky.


----------



## JoeHemi57

The ARC 265 set is superior to the Rainbow SLC 265 set.


----------



## evan

JoeHemi57 said:


> The ARC 265 set is superior to the Rainbow SLC 265 set.


The Arc ACS-265 or the KAR-265?


----------



## z_accoustics

should the midbass be high-passed if i'm feeding it 100-150watts or will it roll off naturally?

I'm not sure what kinda wattage to feed the tweets and midbass


----------



## coffee_junkee

z_accoustics said:


> should the midbass be high-passed if i'm feeding it 100-150watts or will it roll off naturally?
> 
> I'm not sure what kinda wattage to feed the tweets and midbass


I would cross them over at 2900, assuming you have the tweets high-passed at 3k. I have mine setup that way with 24db slope and they sound fantastic..


----------



## zfactor

my tweets are a bit lower at 2600 but you gt th general idea


----------



## z_accoustics

what kinda power you got going to the tweets?


----------



## zfactor

the wife has 200 a side right now through the passives, i have 150 each mid and tweeter via a pdx 4.150


----------



## carbuff888

What AMP will work fine with 720? I am in China and only have a few options here.
Helix B2
Steg QX2.75

Thanks


----------



## GlasSman

You have some good options. I think the Steg would be the best option. THe HElix might be a bit too much power.


----------



## Boring

I have them running with steg 4.01 at 4 x 80 and they sounds good. I felt the mid-bass could take more than the 80 watts i'm feeding them now though.


----------



## z_accoustics

zfactor said:


> the wife has 200 a side right now through the passives, i have 150 each mid and tweeter via a pdx 4.150


150w to each tweet? that seems like a lot. I was thinking of going 150w to the mids and 75 to the tweets.


----------



## zfactor

z_accoustics said:


> 150w to each tweet? that seems like a lot. I was thinking of going 150w to the mids and 75 to the tweets.


yes that is correct. i have a pdx 4.150 running the set


----------



## z_accoustics

Trigger has been pulled on the 720s, should be have them installed by a Week from monday.


----------



## evan

Based on what I've read here 65x4 sounds a little weak, so if you had to choose between that or 210x2 with the passives what would you pick?

If anybody's interested- I hooked a multimeter up to mine and it read 3.1 ohms on the woofers and 5.4 ohms on the tweeters.


----------



## Genxx

I am new here but not to the car audio world but been out the loop for awhile. I considered the SR6500 but the mid was not what I was looking for. After reading everyones veiws and the cost at which you can pick these up I am going to give them a try. I have one question I purchased a Alpine MRA-F350 theater amp which is rated at 50x5 but after reading what everyone is running for power I might be short. I would like this new amp to work as I bought a compatable HU just to use it. Anyone got a thought on this. I have several amps lying around(JL, Autotek, Zapco) all 2 channel amps, I could use if I had to.

Brian


----------



## Lanson

Genxx what a lot of people are doing is running the 720's active, and some are running passive. Passively, you can bridge some channels on your amp and get GREAT ouput. Actively, you can't bridge (unless you're bringing more amps into the car to handle the additional channels you'll need.) So, if you're using the Alpine amp @ 50x5, bridging 2 for each side, thats an honest 100W to each component set, passively. 

Keep in mind, the Pio's are rated conservatively at 50WRMS from Pio themselves...and most attribute this to the fact that the passive crossover setup is ideal for this, but when the component set is broken down and used Actively, there can be a great deal more power flowing through them without issue, especially that magic woofer.

Make sense? So, if you're running active, then drag in another amp if you're unhappy with the output your current one gives it, and if you're running passive, bridge some channels and you should be happy.


----------



## Genxx

*Fourthmeal *thanks for the reply and ideas on how to work through the situation. I will get a set and play around with them in several different configs then. Got plenty of AMPs, EQs, Speakers and HU lying around. Been awhile scince I had anything other than factory. Last time I messed around with anything was the mid to late 90's and the last time I did USAC or IASCA. Those days are long gone and boy how things have changed.


----------



## zfactor

the wife has 150 rms going through the passive and they are just fine....


----------



## saintb

I do not have the time or knowledge to professionally mount these tweeters in my sail panel or doors currently (my new job is burying me). So I'm looking at other options to mount these... temporarily or permanently. 

(FYI, I don't think aftermarket kickpanels are made for my Honda Insight).

That being said, what surface mount brackets do they come with. The 1st page of this review (I think?) has some pics, but I'm having trouble finding info on options and possible moutning angles etc.

Is there a good link someone could reference? You'd think the Pioneer website would have a detailed description of all the accessories online, but this is not the case at present.

thanks, saintb

PS the sail panels in the Insight are tiny so I don't know how much reflection and distortion the windshield frame/supports will 
cause.


----------



## evan

saintb said:


> I do not have the time or knowledge to professionally mount these tweeters in my sail panel or doors currently (my new job is burying me). So I'm looking at other options to mount these... temporarily or permanently.
> 
> (FYI, I don't think aftermarket kickpanels are made for my Honda Insight).
> 
> That being said, what surface mount brackets do they come with. The 1st page of this review (I think?) has some pics, but I'm having trouble finding info on options and possible moutning angles etc.
> 
> Is there a good link someone could reference? You'd think the Pioneer website would have a detailed description of all the accessories online, but this is not the case at present.
> 
> thanks, saintb
> 
> PS the sail panels in the Insight are tiny so I don't know how much reflection and distortion the windshield frame/supports will
> cause.


I've got a set sitting a few feet away from my desk, so if pictures of the included accessories would help just let me know.


----------



## SOHCKing03

Well it was said that these play well off-axis, but how should tweeters be mounted?

Coffee said that on-axis they were a bit harsh. So should I look at putting them in the stock location? Or would a-pillar locations be better?

I'll have 160 available for each side. From what I've read, this should be sufficient.

Lastly, I will be using the DIYMA 12" with this set. Since I will not be running active yet, should I use the amp's LP for the DIYMA?

I guess I'm still a little confused on how to match up components and where to cross everything at.

Thanks.

-Brad


----------



## FlexD2

Wow - thats a lot of reading.

Hopefully these things will sing in my SPL Lada Niva 

Looks like a made a good purchase for a bit of SQ in the SPL truck lol


----------



## fugyaself

I thought people were joking when they said Pioneer was making an awesome component set on another forum. Now I am intrigued.

Anyone compare these to some Adire Kodas yet? I am still a bit behind the times


----------



## z_accoustics

Many have described the tweets as a bit sharp and even harsh on-axis. No review has claimed them to be soft. I have these mounted off axis in the doors (facing each other) and I still get the sharpness. My questions is for people who have had theses a while, do they get mellow with break-in and how long is the break-in? Are you considering other tweets because of the sharpness or will you do some EQ + getting use to it?


----------



## khail19

z_accoustics said:


> Many have described the tweets as a bit sharp and even harsh on-axis. No review has claimed them to be soft. I have these mounted off axis in the doors (facing each other) and I still get the sharpness. My questions is for people who have had theses a while, do they get mellow with break-in and how long is the break-in? Are you considering other tweets because of the sharpness or will you do some EQ + getting use to it?


My tweets are in the doors, down near the woofers facing each other. Been playing in my car for ~3 weeks now, and they still have that brightness to them. It doesn't bother me much, only on certain songs. I think of them as detailed, more so than harsh. Are you using the passives? I've been thinking about trying the -3db setting to see if it gets better.


----------



## z_accoustics

Yeah,

I'm using the passives right now with 50watts each and tweeter on the 0db lead. However, I have the "trebel" at -4 db on my headunit and bass at +1. I'm not exactly certain what ranges the HU is boosting or defeating but it's odd how some songs really need that -4db trebel, while others dont need any EQ at all. Seems like there would be some way (via EQ maybe) to soften the tweeter. I think it's probabbly beneficial for it to be detailed and thus somewhat bright, kind of like you can take a detailed digital image and make it smoother or more blurry but you can't take a blurry picture and make it as sharp as the original. Anyways, after I deaden my doors hopefully the midrange will be more even with the highs and will reduce the focus on the brightness.


----------



## billo405

Has anyone used the 720prs with the Blau VA amps going cheap 139$?.. 2x200rms. If one is sensible with the volume will they be ok??


----------



## rekd0514

They will be fine on that. I have them on the same thing with my Arc amp right now.


----------



## lucas569

coffee_junkee said:


> My bench amp is a barely used, vintage PPI ProMOS 425. It's conservatively rated at 4x25, but actually more like 4x60 at 14v, 4 ohm stereo. They get plenty loud with this amount of power and 320w with the passives will ruin the sound quality in the oh so delicate midrange. Trust me, dump the passives that come with the set and use your 4150 to run them active. Let me be real clear on this: THE PASSIVES INCLUDED WITH THIS SET ARE SHAT!!  They are however useful for other things like a paperweights or coffee table conversation pieces.
> 
> I will be using them in conjunction with a Elemental Designs eu700 in the right footwell of my S2. Only real reason is for extra bass response with the top down.
> 
> zfactor: I see that our ears are in agreement as to their sound characteristics. They are laid back and easy going on the old ears. These are speakers you can listen to for hours at moderate volumes and not think twice about it. Try that with some Quarts or Focal K2P's...



im dying to buy these, you state the passives suks goose balls. 

would i be better off using my CDT satnet-480 passive xovers? 

im not going active for now... just wondering if im better off using the pioneer xover or the cdts?


----------



## tbreihan

lucas569 said:


> im dying to buy these, you state the passives suks goose balls.
> 
> would i be better off using my CDT satnet-480 passive xovers?
> 
> im not going active for now... just wondering if im better off using the pioneer xover or the cdts?


The crossovers certainly don't "suck goose balls," but they are pretty basic. 12 dB/octave slope, 3-level attenuation, and that's it. I don't even think that have a tweeter protection circuit.

On the other hand, they heavy and well-assembled with some pretty nice looking parts. Big air-core inductors, Bennic polypropelene caps, standard metal-oxide film resistors (odd, since so many crossovers use the nicer wire-wound resistors.) Easily $60 worth of components if purchased from Madisound or PE.

The CDT crossovers are designed to work with 6-ohm tweeters and the crossover point is 4.2 KHz. They wouldn't work. Also, having just come from a set of SatNet 480s, I'd say the Pioneer crossovers are better anyway.


----------



## zfactor

they do have tweeter protection. they use a polyswitch


----------



## lucas569

also why such a low rms rating? dont get me wrong 50 "true" watts from a quality amp is one thing but seems very low, is it not? 

im a headroom junkie and i wanted to throw 200+ watts to them but i may have to change my battle plan or get a different amp... 

or should i just turn the gains down and go from there? 

also at what frequency should these be crossed at? currently i have my cdt es units @ 80hz but on some music they cry mercy so i have to switch to 100hz.

i do like to play my music loud alot so the low rms rating worries me....

the off axis responce of the es cdts are poor imo, on axis seems to be the ticket for them... overall im not blown away by them. 

my car has alot of acoustic challenges (whos doesnt eh? lol) 

i like to listen to acoustic music alot (live recordings,etc) but at the same time i like to throw on some rap,rock and everything in between... 

enough of my rambling (coronas seems to have that affect on me)


----------



## lbridges

lucas569 said:


> also why such a low rms rating? dont get me wrong 50 "true" watts from a quality amp is one thing but seems very low, is it not?
> ...


Just my opinion, but Pioneer seems to have multiple personalities when it comes to equipment specs. The "normal" Pioneer line performance claims seem to follow whatever is popular (marketing driven?). The Premier line has two flows - one being reasonably fair and accurate (marketing/engineering balanced?), the other being conservative (engineering driven?). 

An example: my PRS 320 amp is rated @ 50-Watts/channel, but the birthsheet claims 124-Watts/channel. I presume Premier rated the amp at a value it could drive all-day, every-day. 

As to the 720 speakers, I think they did the same, 50Watts RMS (think sine wave, not music) all-day, every-day.

IMO 50 Watts/channel, with that being a real upper power limit, is not enough for the system (in passive mode). I can't speak to running them active, it's not how I'm currently using them.


----------



## coffee_junkee

Where did the "goose balls" come from? I never said that they sucked goose balls.. 

I don't much care for the passives, especially after running them active! Suck it up and buy a good three way crossover, then listen to the difference.


----------



## Philbert

coffee_junkee said:


> I don't much care for the passives, especially after running them active! Suck it up and buy a good three way crossover, then listen to the difference.


if the choice is passive / active via the crossover built into the amp (PPI PC450), is active still the way to go?

--

Also, has anyone compared the TS-C720PRS to a/d/s speakers such as the 346cs or 246ix (or just heard both)? Will the upper end of the a/d/s be smoother, with the Pioneer having greater mid-bass punch?


Thanks,
Phil


----------



## jaypine

I was set to buy the Premiers, but I've read that the tweeters are harsh. Plus I can use active crossover. Would a Dayton RS180 woofer with a Seas 27TFFNC/G (H1396) tweeter be better? How about a Seas CA18RLY woofer with a Seas 27TFFNC/G (H1396) tweeter?


----------



## mk1982

i think the drivers u mentioned are superior drivers. especially in the tweeter


----------



## Coredump

jaypine said:


> I was set to buy the Premiers, but I've read that the tweeters are harsh. Plus I can use active crossover. Would a Dayton RS180 woofer with a Seas 27TFFNC/G (H1396) tweeter be better? How about a Seas CA18RLY woofer with a Seas 27TFFNC/G (H1396) tweeter?


Well for me I have a severe lack of mounting depth to deal with. If you are worried about the tweeters being harsh, as am I, then maybe buy the set and a set of Seas silk dome tweeters to swap in? Maybe run them active afterwards?


----------



## ATB

Note, these may not be very deep, but they are very wide at the magnet for a 6.5/7 driver. At least the black plastic cover comes off the back of the basket, but they are still very wide. Does not fit in a Legacy door very well.


----------



## khail19

ATB said:


> Note, these may not be very deep, but they are very wide at the magnet for a 6.5/7 driver. At least the black plastic cover comes off the back of the basket, but they are still very wide. Does not fit in a Legacy door very well.


How did you remove the cover? I undid the 4 allen head screws and the cover still didn't want to come off. I ended up cutting off a bit of my window track for them to clear.


----------



## ATB

Ask 6speedcoupe, he's the one doing the install for me  I think he pried it off with a bit of effort after removing the screws.


----------



## 89grand

Philbert said:


> if the choice is passive / active via the crossover built into the amp (PPI PC450), is active still the way to go?
> 
> --
> 
> Also, has anyone compared the TS-C720PRS to a/d/s speakers such as the 346cs or 246ix (or just heard both)? Will the upper end of the a/d/s be smoother, with the Pioneer having greater mid-bass punch?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Phil



Hmmm, well I'm about to find out soon enough how this combo works. I'm going to be running the Premier 720 midbasses along with the tweeters from the a/d/s/ 345CS set (Same tweeters as the 346 set). 

I would imagine the Pioneers would have better midbass. The a/d/s/ 345CS set I had sounded good, midbass was about average for a 5.25" driver. I know I really like the a/d/s/ tweeters, but I haven't heard the Pioneer's to compare.


----------



## mvw2

Peter_Euro over on CAF has listened to both. Recent post asking just this:
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=264330

I wouldn't take his word too lightly as he is a bit of a veteran of car audio, however, I'm not sure why his views on the Pioneer set is so negative given the many happy customers and good reviews.

I'd love to personally listen to both sets at some point but have not yet had the chance.


----------



## lucas569

mvw2 said:


> Peter_Euro over on CAF has listened to both. Recent post asking just this:
> http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=264330
> 
> I wouldn't take his word too lightly as he is a bit of a veteran of car audio, however, I'm not sure why his views on the Pioneer set is so negative given the many happy customers and good reviews.
> 
> I'd love to personally listen to both sets at some point but have not yet had the chance.


thats one mans opinion, ive been in this game for almost 20 yrs... 

are they the best i have ever heard? no, are they great for $250? hell yes!!!!

id even pay more for them, up to an extent... after say $400 id be more picky on my selection... 

its all in the ears of the beholder, even then when u throw them into a car its still going to sound different. 

go and listen to as many speakers as u can, then make your choice.


----------



## fej

Interesting .. I wonder what he deems to "not suck ballz". Everyone has their own set of ears however. I have a feeling that maybe the 720 sets he has heard were lacking some power, but you never know. I personally have not had a ton of listen time but I will be tuning my own set in the truck install in about a week. If the tweet does not get it done, either a 25nfa, xt-19, or Seas neo will be replacing it. Can't make everyone happy .. I am sure there are HT guys that won't listen to a hand built set of scans . .but will pay $30k for towers with the same drivers in them


----------



## npdang

The Pioneer PRS mids, at least objectively do many things right. High tech sandwhich cone with excellent stiffness and dampening, low inductance, and a world class underhung motor. Imho, it also sounds damn good. I'd suspect that in a highly optimized setup most people would be very impressed.


----------



## chadillac3

mvw2 said:


> Peter_Euro over on CAF has listened to both. Recent post asking just this:
> http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=264330
> 
> I wouldn't take his word too lightly as he is a bit of a veteran of car audio, however, I'm not sure why his views on the Pioneer set is so negative given the many happy customers and good reviews.
> 
> I'd love to personally listen to both sets at some point but have not yet had the chance.


Ugh, that dude. I would take whatever he says with a grain of salt rather than not "take his word too lightly."


----------



## mvw2

chadillac3 said:


> Ugh, that dude. I would take whatever he says with a grain of salt rather than not "take his word too lightly."


I do take his words with some consideration as he's had a good amount of experience with many speakers over the years. However, at the same time, I do take it with a grain of salt as I have no clue about the quality of the install or tune in which he listened to them. From what everyone else has said, his perception seems inaccurate. The install can make certain speakers sound very good or very bad.

To bajan,
...most random post ever, in the wrong place, completely unrelated. Welcome to DIYMA but you've got a lot to learn about posting on forums.


----------



## 89grand

mvw2 said:


> Peter_Euro over on CAF has listened to both. Recent post asking just this:
> http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=264330
> 
> I wouldn't take his word too lightly as he is a bit of a veteran of car audio, however, I'm not sure why his views on the Pioneer set is so negative given the many happy customers and good reviews.
> 
> I'd love to personally listen to both sets at some point but have not yet had the chance.



I gotta be honest here, I don't know anything about this guy at all, but going soley on how he was in that thread, I'd peg him as a ****ing idiot.

Most knowledgable people don't just keep saying "they suck ballz" over and over again instead of actually stating what was wrong with them. Plus, saying the midbass was "weak" really? I never ever heard anyone ever say that about the 720 midbasses, in fact only the complete opposite. I can believe that the tweeters may not be anything special, but weak midbass? That's just ridiculous.


----------



## khail19

89grand said:


> I gotta be honest here, I don't know anything about this guy at all, but going soley on how he was in that thread, I'd peg him as a ****ing idiot.


Completely agree, I don't take anyone seriously that talks like that. His reasons for not liking the set are completely opposite of everything I've read and my own personal experience. There's a lot of midbass, much more than anything I've tried in the same price range. And the tweeters are definitely not weak or lacking high end. Maybe not the best tweeters in the world, but better than most pre-boxed comp sets. I love my set, and now that I ditched the passives I am even happier with them.


----------



## rekd0514

Yes, if all you can say is they suck balls, I would have to agree that you are a complete retard. I wouldn't believe anything he says with that mindset. It is proven here that people with much more knowledge/experience have rated these highly and actually backed up there statements. When you don't provide any details about the enviroment you heard them in or the install there is no way you can just jump to that conclusion. He sounds like the type of person who has heard high end and would not even give Pioneer a second look. He wasn't even interested in giving it a fair chance. The only thing I can agree with is about the tweeters, but they still sound very nice for the price as far as I am concerned. I am still passive, but I still think the midbass is just incredible on this set with 200RMS per (deadened) door!


----------



## mvw2

A retard he is not. My only curiosity with his experience is how they were installed and tuned.


----------



## Guest

that's the whole problem with opinions ... especially internet opinions.

Maybe the dude is an idiot. Maybe the install was bad. Maybe he was just in a bad mood that day. Maybe he had a bad experience with (or bad preconception of) Pioneer, and that colored his views. Not to mention ... what are the details of his taste in music reproduction?

Scientific testing can give _very_ good clues concerning the _accuracy_ of music reproduction. Personal taste is another story altogether ... you know what they say about opinions


----------



## mvw2

Part of my reason posting this is to shake things up a little but also show that not _everyone_ is completely happy with them. I know some of you get very defensive over this. That's ok, debate is good. I do think well of Peter and do hold his knowledge with high reguard. He can be, welll...blunt sometimes. When he says they suck, there generally is reason for it. However, I don't know what that reason is. They were, for some reason, sounding pretty poor to him when he demoed them. With the testing here, it would point heavily towards a poor install or just bad tuning or simply a matter of taste. One can't say.


----------



## fugyaself

mvw2 said:


> Part of my reason posting this is to shake things up a little but also show that not _everyone_ is completely happy with them. I know some of you get very defensive over this. That's ok, debate is good. I do think well of Peter and do hold his knowledge with high reguard. He can be, welll...blunt sometimes. When he says they suck, there generally is reason for it. However, I don't know what that reason is. They were, for some reason, sounding pretty poor to him when he demoed them. With the testing here, it would point heavily towards a poor install or just bad tuning or simply a matter of taste. One can't say.



Yeah uhm peter isn't exactly king ****. Maybe King **** of CAF but it is pretty easy to lead the people there. Even I was considered pretty knowledgeable by the majority there for awhile and I'm really not. I just know the basics, have some experience, and have read a ton. Helping people out with the basics there and having a high post count is all you need to be considered one of the smarted members there. 

You really trust someone that thinks he needs 300w to his tweeters? Don't let his ego fool you man. Spend some more time here and on other forums and you will see what a joke CAF is when it comes to knowledge.


----------



## lucas569

i dont care of theyre made by pyramid, if they sound good TO MY EARS im happy! 

honestly this is the very and i mean very 1st pair of pioneer spkrs that i have ever liked! 

another reputable car audio guru said the prs mid drivers sound really good too... havent seen anyone w/ those yet...


----------



## Guest

lucas569 said:


> i dont care of theyre made by pyramid, if they sound good TO MY EARS im happy!
> 
> honestly this is the very and i mean very 1st pair of pioneer spkrs that i have ever liked!
> 
> another reputable car audio guru said the prs mid drivers sound really good too... havent seen anyone w/ those yet...


hee hee, hate to tease ... well, not really 

Just received a little shipment from the UK ... today, in fact ... with a couple TS-S101PRS midrange drivers 

Stay tuned ...


----------



## fej

Were I want info on those as the 6.5's drop nicely in the door and those 4's would look good in my kicks


----------



## zfactor

man he is a idiot.. ive always said they were not the best ive ever heard but i have always said for 250$ there is not much better if anything.. i have LONNNG TIME experience and tons of seat time with lots of speakers. i agree the tweeter is not the best imo its still a really good driver though. the mid is def what shines in the set and overall together they just work. 

yes the plastic cover can be removed. it does take a bit of oomph to get some of them off others have come off pretty easy. but the mag is still very wide.

some of the best ears i know and others i have read have said they love these speakers at this price.. including some very well respected people.. i would also take his thoughts with a grain of salt..


----------



## Guest

lucas569 said:


> another reputable car audio guru said the prs mid drivers sound really good too...


online review? link?


----------



## chadillac3

mvw2 said:


> Part of my reason posting this is to shake things up a little but also show that not _everyone_ is completely happy with them.


Then find someone who wasn't universally considered a ******* on ECA.


----------



## Guest

Ever know someone to bash, often without any real foundation, an otherwise well-regarded product ... in a childish attempt to elevate his own status or expertise?

I'm not saying that's definitely the case here, but i have seen this behavior before. The internet seems to breed it ...


----------



## bassfromspace

werewolf said:


> Ever know someone to bash, often without any real foundation, an otherwise well-regarded product ... in a childish attempt to elevate his own status or expertise?
> 
> I'm not saying that's definitely the case here, but i have seen this behavior before. The internet seems to breed it ...


Darn tootin'.

A rebel without a cause.


----------



## chadillac3

Jeff nailed it on the head.


----------



## WLDock

werewolf said:


> hee hee, hate to tease ... well, not really
> Just received a little shipment from the UK ... today, in fact ... with a couple TS-S101PRS midrange drivers
> Stay tuned ...


Care to reveal your source and what it cost? If the 4's are as good as the 6.5's then this could be the new hotness for a three-way set...maybe add your tweeter of choice for a really custom sound. 

I want a set!


----------



## PlanetGranite

WLDock said:


> Care to reveal your source and what it cost? If the 4's are as good as the 6.5's then this could be the new hotness for a three-way set...maybe add your tweeter of choice for a really custom sound.
> 
> I want a set!


x2 - Would love to get a pair of these.


----------



## sumfknguy

sorry to bring a thread back from the grave... but i've been debating over 2 different component sets... one being the MB Quart QSD216, the other being the 720's. Q's being that i had a set a few years back and was "happy". Pioneer's being that a good friend of mine highly recommended me these. He actually helped build a Jeep that won a national sound competition (its the red jeep on Pioneer's website). I decided on the 720's as my taste in music is all over the place.. and i keep reading about how the Q's titanium tweeter can really cause some eye twitching.. 

I am new here, so i will start off with a "sup" to everyone.. even worse, i am new to car audio as a whole. I have tried over the years to get more knowledge into the likes of it, but with everything else going on in my life it makes it harder for me to zone in and stay put. With that, here goes. 

I am buying my set of 720's tomorrow. They are going into my 350z. Currently, i have a Kenwood DNX7100 HU going out to 2 JL Audio amps. One being the 500/1 which drives a JL10W7. The other, a 300/2 waiting to drive. Between the HU and 300/2 i have a PG TLD22 Line Driver to increase the measly 2V out on the HU. I have gone through this thread and have seen a lot of about passive and active. This is greek to me.. what i gather is passive would be using the xover's that come with the 720's, and active using an alt crossover (stand alone or on amp). Am i correct here? If I decided to go with the xover on the amp, how would this be handled by only having a 2 channel amp? Can it be done? I imagine the midbass would be pushed to the tweeters and this would be a bad thing... 

basically... i need help.. lol. I need to know what the best way is to connect up my 720's when i get them with what i have to work with. I am doing the install myself which is the way i prefer to do things. If some see this post as a cop out with trying to figure it out on my own... well, trust me.. i have stopped and visited EVERY audio shop in town.. and EVERY single one of them has some off the wall opinion on what they think i should do which contradicts the last shops opinion.. which in turn, has me chasing my own tail. If it means anything to you... if you walk me through this process.. i would be more than happy to throw some cheddah your way via Paypal. 

-Will


----------



## finfinder

Welcome,

You've probably chosen well. I remember the MB tweeter. It slowly drove me insane.

Your best defense is knowledge. It's how much you know that will guide you. Research what active crossovers do on this site. There is a ton of info here. Many amplifiers now come with crossovers built in (i think the JLs do) but you will need to know what frequencies to send to what drivers and what a crossover does. You are correct, passive crossovers take the pre-set route and dictate what frequencies got to what drivers. You will learn about high pass, low pass and band pass options. A little research is a powerful thing..

Read this post on crossovers for example http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7160

Here's a few more sites to get you started on the basics of car audio. 

www.bcae1.com
www.the12volt.com


----------



## rekd0514

You are also correct in thinking that active is out of the question with your current 300/2 amp. You need some more channels.


----------



## finfinder

The short answer is that if you want to stay with JL amps you could get a 300/4 and it would work.


----------



## mk1982

is it possible to further disassemble the C720PRS tweeter to the raw driver ? my Subaru Legacy doesn't have much room for tweeters (couldnt fit the seas neos).


----------



## zfactor

i do not think you can take it apart it seems all sealed up to me.. ive used TONS of them now and i have not seen a easy way to take them apart.. maybe some prying and cuting but then you will loose the sealed rear chamber


----------



## mk1982

zfactor, i see .. would you say its smaller than the seas neo ? do you prefer them to the big brands 2-way 6.5" focal/mb/dyn


----------



## zfactor

def not smaller than a neo is... its a good size small frame tweeter...they are a good overall tweeter but i dont think they are anything "special" some find them harsh i dont... they are pretty smooth and can get reasonably loud, i do think there are better options out there but these are also on the other hand def better than most out of the box tweeters are


----------



## mk1982

thats a shame i actually sold my seas neo because they wouldnt fit in the stock legacy tweeter locations. i'm using a set of PG RSD 2-ways now .. tiny 3/4 inch tweeters when 'disassembled'.


----------



## zfactor

oh yeah the prs tweeters are way larger than the rsd ones ... even if they were disassembled... remember they are 28mm domes


----------



## rekd0514

mk1982 said:


> thats a shame i actually sold my seas neo because they wouldnt fit in the stock legacy tweeter locations. i'm using a set of PG RSD 2-ways now .. tiny 3/4 inch tweeters when 'disassembled'.


You can always try a new location.


----------



## mk1982

zfactor have you installed some RSD splits, what do you think?


----------



## zfactor

the rsd's are not at all a bad set.. not in the same leauge as the prs though.. the tweeters can be shrill and bright, the midbass have pretty good low end and are def capable of taking some abuse.. they sound AWESOME for their price point i dont think there is a set out there at around 80$ (price found online) that can even come close.. but the prs are in a whole diff leauge... might want to try some other options also??? lmk what your requirements are ill see what i have in stock maybe i can help...


----------



## redcalimp5

Thanks for the detailed reviews!


----------



## DejaWiz

^ x2! Awesome reviews on an awesome set of comps.


----------



## Rich.E.Rich

I just installed my 720PRS set and WOW is all I can say. This is easily the best frontstage I've ever owned (that may not be saying much ) I've only owned 1 set of comps and and a bunch of coaxes prior.

The midbass is phenomenal and the tweeters are not bad at all. I am extremely satisfied.

Rich


----------



## DejaWiz

Rich.E.Rich said:


> I just installed my 720PRS set and WOW is all I can say.


What amp are you using for them?


----------



## Rich.E.Rich

DejaWiz said:


> What amp are you using for them?


Lanzar OPTI2X150 (100x2)


----------



## DejaWiz

Rich.E.Rich said:


> Lanzar OPTI2X150 (100x2)


Thanks. 

I just auditioned the 720PRS for the, oh I don't know, 5th time this past weekend. First on 2x50w, then 2x75w. I wanted to hear them again on 2x150w, but the PRS-D2100T amp wouldn't work properly through the soundboard. Weird since it worked just fine a couple months ago.

Every time I audition them, I want to get a set. Maybe I'll sell some stuff and bite the bullet.


----------



## Rich.E.Rich

DejaWiz said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I just auditioned the 720PRS for the, oh I don't know, 5th time this past weekend. First on 2x50w, then 2x75w. I wanted to hear them again on 2x150w, but the PRS-D2100T amp wouldn't work properly through the soundboard. Weird since it worked just fine a couple months ago.
> 
> Every time I audition them, I want to get a set. Maybe I'll sell some stuff and bite the bullet.


It's got my vote. I plan on going active in the future. Likely will give each driver 50w.

Rich


----------



## khail19

I'm still using the mids with the Sea Neo tweets active, and I see no reason to change anytime soon. They really are a great speaker.


----------



## MIAaron

They really come alive with some extra power. I had them running on 100w with a 2:1 gain ratio for a few months, but recently bumped them up to 400w with a 1:1 gain ratio. 200-250 watts seems to be the sweet spot with a 80hz 12db HP xover. Anything over that and you can visually see the drivers working their ass off for a small increase in output. You might have better luck with a steeper filter though...


----------



## JoeHemi57

there's a set on ebay right now for $230 shipped...


----------



## Rich.E.Rich

MIAaron said:


> They really come alive with some extra power. I had them running on 100w with a 2:1 gain ratio for a few months, but recently bumped them up to 400w with a 1:1 gain ratio. 200-250 watts seems to be the sweet spot with a 80hz 12db HP xover. Anything over that and you can visually see the drivers working their ass off for a small increase in output. You might have better luck with a steeper filter though...


Thx for the info, but I don't wanna cross the mid @ 80hz, that would waste a lot of the midbass that this thing does best. I am subless now (waiting on my enclosure) so I crossed the mid @ 50,

I plan on crossing my sub @ 65ish or so and have the mid start upward from there. I'll see how it goes.

Rich


----------



## MIAaron

That's cool. They just won't get nearly as loud as I like crossed at 50hz.


----------



## khail19

80hz at 12db seems to be perfect in my install as well. I keep the sub LP at 63hz @ 12db, and lowering the HP on the mids to 63 really didn't seem to do much.


----------



## MIAaron

If the drz had a steeper even order filter I would be using it.


----------



## fej

I have my set at 63hz 24db to 2.5k 18db with 164w per channel on them and they work great in kicks. Very respectable midbass with my w7 8" at 63hz 24db as well on 750w.


----------



## steve4134

Where is the best place to buy these ?

steve


----------



## DejaWiz

steve4134 said:


> Where is the best place to buy these ?
> 
> steve


onlinecarstereo.com, sonicelectronix.com, or if you feel like paying double and getting the warranty, from a local authorized dealer.


----------



## darkist240sx

good review


----------



## caraudiofan21

Great review, does anyone have the T/S for the Premier PRS?


----------



## DejaWiz

caraudiofan21 said:


> Great review, does anyone have the T/S for the Premier PRS?


Page 1 of the user's manual.


----------



## oldschoolsq

coffee_junkee said:


> but that's nothing the DCX can't fix.
> 
> Still impressed!


Are refering to a DCX-1000 x-over


----------



## rekd0514

PPI DCX-730


----------



## oldschoolsq

rekd0514 said:


> PPI DCX-730



Thanks


----------



## Aznattic

I currently have the a set of the 720PRS and I'm not as happy with the set as i thought i would be. Currently they are crossed at 80 Hz 12 db and 2.5 Hz 18 db with 75 watts per midbass and another 75 for the tweeters. 

My setup:
Alpine 9855 active
JL 300/4

The midbass isn't as clear as i thought it would be, and the midbass although decent, is not strong enough imo. I have the doors deadened on the inner and outer layer of the doors.


----------



## rekd0514

Bring it down to 63Hz with a steeper slope. They should have plenty of midbass!


----------



## ocuriel

Check and make sure the phase it right.


----------



## egm220

hi

would u say that they are better than the sr6500? it sure is cheaper, if they are comparable , then im cancelling my order for the sr6500 with my local audio shop

thanks


----------



## buchaja

egm220 said:


> hi
> 
> would u say that they are better than the sr6500? it sure is cheaper, if they are comparable , then im cancelling my order for the sr6500 with my local audio shop
> 
> thanks


I haven't heard the pioneers, but I own the polks. For what it's worth, if I had to pick now, I'd give the pioneers a try. The sr6500's are nice, but they are overpriced, and I've heard some very positive reviews of the premiers from some very reputable people.

Just my $0.02 ...


----------



## egm220

thanks


----------



## Oliver

Cutaway:


----------



## LogiQ

I have a rockford fosgate p4004 amp. it says that it is capable of doing 2 way active crossover, but the power is only rated at 50x4. is this too little and will this amp even work with these pioneer's?


----------



## buchaja

50 watts per driver will work. Consider it comparable to 100 watts to a passive system where the crossover is dividing power between tweeter and midrange. In fact, 50 watts to almost any tweeter will be more than enough.


----------



## kurupt1972

i


----------



## khail19

kurupt1972 said:


> i


Best first post ever.


----------



## DejaWiz

khail19 said:


> Best first post ever.


i





am not so sure about that.


----------



## kurupt1972

Sorry I was going to post a question here about the speakers but decided to make a new thread. Thanks.


----------



## DejaWiz

kurupt1972 said:


> Sorry I was going to post a question here about the speakers but decided to make a new thread. Thanks.


It's all good, man. We hafta have some fun here...


----------



## 4x4crazy

I had these in my last car and they sounded nice


----------



## MerlinWerks

zfactor said:


> yes the plastic cover can be removed. it does take a bit of oomph to get some of them off others have come off pretty easy. but the mag is still very wide.


Does removing the cover reduce the mounting depth at all? I'm trying to determine if I can fit these in a 2005 PT Cruiser Wagon. I only have ~2 1/4" to work with if the magnet diameter is > 2 3/4". From pictures I've seen it looks like there would be an area in the center of the magnet that is a smaller diameter with the cover removed, any idea what this diameter is and how tall that section is?

Thanks


----------



## porkchop

Hi All,

been lurking for a while and in the market for some new components, and was wondering how these compares to the Boston Acoustics Pro60s?

I would be running components through a Fosgate P400x4 so power is around 50rms (or 75rms according to the sheet that came with the amp)



Thanks!

Tommy


----------



## DejaWiz

porkchop said:


> was wondering how these compare to the Boston Acoustics Pro60s?


That's going to be tough for us to answer for you since what sounds like gold to one can sound like garbage to another... have you auditioned either/both sets?


----------



## mikey7182

I've owned both and would put the Premiers over the Bostons even though the Bostons tended to get a bit louder (probably just pulled more out of my amp being a 3 ohm woofer). Both were great sets though. I'd listen to both of them if you can, preferably in a car.  Or, buy both sets, install both of them, see which ones you like better, and return the set you didn't like, or sell them on the classifieds here/ebay/etc. You probably won't lose much.


----------



## porkchop

DejaWiz said:


> That's going to be tough for us to answer for you since what sounds like gold to one can sound like garbage to another... have you auditioned either/both sets?


well I didn't have the pleasure to listen to both of them and compare, but I did hear a set of BA SX60, which I enjoyed, but I figured I'd splurage a little =)



mikey7182 said:


> I've owned both and would put the Premiers over the Bostons even though the Bostons tended to get a bit louder (probably just pulled more out of my amp being a 3 ohm woofer). Both were great sets though. I'd listen to both of them if you can, preferably in a car.  Or, buy both sets, install both of them, see which ones you like better, and return the set you didn't like, or sell them on the classifieds here/ebay/etc. You probably won't lose much.


I went ahead and gave the Pioneers a try, since it had a slightly shallower mounting depth and bigger speaker.

Thanks again for your replies! hopefully I'll be back in a few days with out regret =)

Tommy


----------



## DejaWiz

porkchop said:


> Thanks again for your replies! hopefully I'll be back in a few days with out regret


Looking forward to your thoughts on them.


----------



## placenta

I was comparing this set to a set of Focal Polyglass. I have had a few sets of Polyglass. I can't make up my mind, but im looking for the speaker that can go lower. According to the specs, that would be the Pioneers.


----------



## placenta

Well I made my choice and ordered this speaker set. I will be running it off half my TRU amp thru passives.


----------



## Nass027

Has anybody experienced a "break-in" period with these.I started to read the review and i'd still be here tomorrow so i'm cheatin'.I've installed mine in my '91 GMC Truck.Everything is new from deck to amps to sub to speakers to wire.They are powered by Tru Tech S44 getting 65wx2 and the other 200 to a JL Audio Sub.They only have probably 10 hours on them but there is no where near the midbass that everybody has been experiencing.In fact they are pretty weak. Will they come alive after another 50 hours or.... Door deadened etc etc.Do i need to bridge the amp and feed them some more power and get another amp for the sub?Just curious and concerned. Thanks.


----------



## DejaWiz

Nass027 said:


> Has anybody experienced a "break-in" period with these.I started to read the review and i'd still be here tomorrow so i'm cheatin'.I've installed mine in my '91 GMC Truck.Everything is new from deck to amps to sub to speakers to wire.They are powered by Tru Tech S44 getting 65wx2 and the other 200 to a JL Audio Sub.They only have probably 10 hours on them but there is no where near the midbass that everybody has been experiencing.In fact they are pretty weak. Will they come alive after another 50 hours or.... Door deadened etc etc.Do i need to bridge the amp and feed them some more power and get another amp for the sub?Just curious and concerned. Thanks.



1. If running them through the passives, then yes, I'd recommend more power. Probably somewhere in the 2x100-150w rms range. The more, the merrier. Or get a dedicated sub amp, an external electronic crossover, and use the 4x65w amp to run them active.

2. Deaden, deaden, deaden. And seal, if you can.

3. Give them about 20-50 hours of play time to fully break-in.


----------



## ZoNtO

Is there a T/S spec sheet for these anywhere? I've searched all over and got jack diddly...


----------



## porkchop

will these components be good for going active with? since I'm getting rid of my 3sixty.2 I was thinking about trying going active with my 880prs...


----------



## KAP

Thats the exact setup that I am running and they work great active.


----------



## DejaWiz

porkchop said:


> will these components be good for going active with? since I'm getting rid of my 3sixty.2 I was thinking about trying going active with my 880prs...


Certainly should be. CJ ran them active and reported his very positive findings in this very thread.


----------



## placenta

hope these arent on backorder. i havent got a tracking number in 3 days.


----------



## porkchop

placenta said:


> hope these arent on backorder. i havent got a tracking number in 3 days.


where did you order them from? I got mine from soniceletronics and they were here in about a week.. it was in processing for about 3 days..


----------



## placenta

i ordered them from one of my regular ebayers. i should have paid the extra $25 and went with sonic.


----------



## placenta

placenta said:


> i ordered them from one of my regular ebayers. i should have paid the extra $25 and went with sonic.


got my tracking number today. i may have them by Friday if im lucky. then i can continue my install.


----------



## kornsined

Has anyone tried the 720mids with the xt19 alpine tweeters in an active setup? I know some people think the tweeters are the point in the system.


----------



## placenta

Got them installed tonight, staying up until 1am. I'll start auditioning tomorrow.. and see if my static issue returns from my previous setup. 

Initial impression, very high end set. The tweets are super heavy and the passive boxes are larger than most sets I have seen. The woofers were immense, and I barely fit them with both my 3/4" custom HDPE spacer as well as about a 1/2" one included in the set. The black spacer that the speaker is sitting on comes with the set, and is optional. The tweet magnet is too stong. I set it on my workbench. It pulled tiny screws INTO the dome thru the grill and crushed it.. Luckily... I carefully pulled the screws out and blew on the dome. It popped back out like new. I can already tell how serious these speakers are. I played only one track for 60 seconds at very quiet night volumes. "All by Myself" Celine Dion. The sub sounds were incredible, I dont even have my sub RCA hooked up right now. I am looking forward to really testing them tomorrow. The piano on that song was so light and airy I couldnt believe it, I havent heard it that natural in a long time.

Oh I forgot to check which tweeter wire was positive and which was negative before i pressed it into the cup. It has one all grey wire and one grey wire with white stripe. I need to know if teh white striped wire is positive or negative. Preferably with a pic of the tweeter where the wire attaches. It has markings.


----------



## placenta

First initial thoughts:

Overall, I love them but there's a lot of tuning still to do. First thing I did was turn OFF my HP crossover. I set it to flat. And these things were flawless running full range. I don't get the bass I want if I set a filter. My doors are fairly sealed and I did cover most of the remaining holes with a layer of dynamat during this install. 

I can only think of one problem. The highs/voice are way too harsh on my tweets. Like when I get the mids/lows to the perfect range, at that point the highs are starting to hurt my ears. And its mostly "voice" out of my tweets that is harsh. I already have my passive box set at -3dB. So there are plenty of solutions I can use for this. I could move my tweets down low, which might take away some harshness. I could also use my EQ to lower the harsh point, if I had any idea where it was.. I put the tweets as low as that on the a pillar because that is the furthest possible point from my head, thus equalizing the mid/tweet distance as much as possible.

oh. and the TRU amp is more power than i ever need for this component set. The gains are 1/2 way, and I might have to turn them down. It's just too overpowering for the small car.

suppose I'll keep editing instead of pointlessly bumping this thread.

just got another 30 mins auditioning on my way to work. I managed to tame my tweets where they sound a lot better. I attenuated a couple points in my 5 band parametric and it took away a lot of harshness:

1.2kHz -4dB
4kHz -3dB

Now the tweets have their painful edge removed, and it sounds a lot better to me. The system is starting to blow me away now. I have a slight headache from the incredible loudness during my auditions. But its not a sub headache, its a sheer front stage power headache. Even though I already cancelled my Imprint order a long time ago, now I'm thinking about trying it. It will kill all these peaks far better than I could. I am not using any time alignment yet, I havent done any measurements. Do I measure my fronts off the mid or the tweet? Very tough to figure out. Another thing, once I faded off my rear door speakers off deck power, I got way more bass hitting in front. There must have been some muddyness or phasing issues with the rear mids flowing behind me. I think I can tune these tweets to stay where they are, since my install is already all set up anyway. Its better than I imagined, but I actually imagined TRU to knock my socks off and it did.


----------



## ZoNtO

Thanks for the review man, nice to see some fresh ones! I'll most likely be ordering mine in about a week!


----------



## placenta

Only thing I don't love is the big honking tweets in my a pillars advertised for everyone to see.. i might move them down to my mids at some point..


----------



## AzGrower

placenta said:


> Only thing I don't love is the big honking tweets in my a pillars advertised for everyone to see.. i might move them down to my mids at some point..


How much did you pay from Ebay? These are on sale at onlinecarstereo.com with free shipping http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17068


----------



## placenta

i got these from ocstereo i think. Paid a lot. like $270 shipped.


----------



## rekd0514

Glad you took the time to write a review. I know for sure I won't be changing mine for awhile. I really love this set and it is true the tweets can be harsh, but it isn't horrible. I just put mine off axis like yours and I actually like the tweets now. Mine are active right now and I suggest you do the same. I really love how the sound of them changed. This is my first time being avtive though, so my word may not be completely valid.  I got mine for $223 shipped before they became so popular. 

I also like that little pod you have for your tweets. What did you make those out of? I recall the tweeter being backwards from the normal way they are. Usually I think of anything with a line on it as a ground. I think in the case of these tweets the one with the line is the positive. I am not completely sure, but there is a marking on the tweet to tell for sure.


----------



## placenta

rekd0514 said:


> Glad you took the time to write a review. I know for sure I won't be changing mine for awhile. I really love this set and it is true the tweets can be harsh, but it isn't horrible. I just put mine off axis like yours and I actually like the tweets now. Mine are active right now and I suggest you do the same. I really love how the sound of them changed. This is my first time being avtive though, so my word may not be completely valid.  I got mine for $223 shipped before they became so popular.
> 
> I also like that little pod you have for your tweets. What did you make those out of? I recall the tweeter being backwards from the normal way they are. Usually I think of anything with a line on it as a ground. I think in the case of these tweets the one with the line is the positive. I am not completely sure, but there is a marking on the tweet to tell for sure.



The tweet without the white stripe is positive. Someone confirmed on another forum with a pic. The white stripe wire is negative/ground as you said. 

The pods came with the tweets. hope yours did too..

and here is a new video I made showing a new addition to my pods:

http://74.220.202.31/~bellbott/tweets.wmv


----------



## placenta

placenta said:


> here is a new video I made showing a new addition to my pods: http://74.220.202.31/~bellbott/tweets.wmv


btw.. those covers suck. They made my tweets sound way worse. i took them off after one drive. I think tweeters are too directional to begin with, and this made it even worse.


----------



## rekd0514

Ahhh the ones in it., I forgot about those. haha


----------



## SiR_Dave

placenta said:


> btw.. those covers suck. They made my tweets sound way worse. i took them off after one drive. I think tweeters are too directional to begin with, and this made it even worse.


 Thanks for the update with that


----------



## placenta

I have to figure out if that middle bolt needs to come out also, to get the cover off. I dont want to damage the speaker. Even with the middle bolt loose, the cover is not loose, so it might be glued on.

Theres no way i wont scratch it all up if i try and pry it off at that meeting point.. but its not visible anyway.. i might try it if no one else has done it.


----------



## placenta

You dont have to remove the middle bolt. Removing the cover does nothing for depth. But it does a little for circumference which might help me a bit on my clearance.


----------



## ZoNtO

I would think it's just their to protect the metal from water damage and the like...


----------



## placenta

ZoNtO said:


> I would think it's just their to protect the metal from water damage and the like...


That would hardly protect from water since it has holes in it..


----------



## rekd0514

Dang I bet that decreases the weight of these quite a bit too.


----------



## placenta

rekd0514 said:


> Dang I bet that decreases the weight of these quite a bit too.


i would have thought so too. but it doesnt. the spacer is like plastic or very light metal.


----------



## DejaWiz

Thanks for the review, placenta! These comps are still #1 on my list for my Versa project, and it's nice to keep reading all the positive things about them.


----------



## jj_diamond

placenta said:


> Only thing I don't love is the big honking tweets in my a pillars advertised for everyone to see.. i might move them down to my mids at some point..


lol. that would annoy me too.


----------



## placenta

My new adapters are made. 










The 1" spacer (left) next to the 3/4" spacer (right)



















i first drill the 3 mounting holes:










Then I take a large drill bit a tiny bit in and make an angled seat.










They turned out perfect:


----------



## placenta

Little video of this work:

http://74.220.202.31/~bellbott/newadapters.wmv


----------



## placenta

These go as low as i want now. Even flat with no crossover. The TRU seems like its too much power, but it's probably just the harshness of these tweets. I been listening to them for quite a few days, and I just dont think theyre for me. Everything else is perfect, so i might look into a tweet replacment. I will be waiting for some new Focal TN-52 to pop up somewhere, as they were the best tweet I ever heard on my K2P set. I now know I prefer a very laid back quiet tweet. Smooth, yet detailed, not too bright. and very good aimed at each other in a pillars.


----------



## 6262ms3

Hmm, I found my TN-52's to be a bit too harsh at higher volumes, but that was running passive (at -6db!) with the tweets in the sail panels. If the prs tweets are even harsher then this set is definitely not for me.


----------



## placenta

6262ms3 said:


> Hmm, I found my TN-52's to be a bit too harsh at higher volumes, but that was running passive (at -6db!) with the tweets in the sail panels. If the prs tweets are even harsher then this set is definitely not for me.


as long as im not the only one that says it. it might just be my ears.


----------



## placenta

I have some new Seas Neo textiles on order to try out also.

Now that I fixed my spacers and have full speaker clearance I tested my techno again. Ran the mids at 40Hz/12db, no problems, ran them at 31.5Hz, no problems. I might as well run them flat if I'm running them that low right?? Even when im at 31Hz HP, I hear more bass when I turn the crossover off.


----------



## placenta

if anyone has a set of these uninstalled, can you measure some ohms for me in the passive box terminals.

i need an ohm difference between:

(-) tweet terminal and (+) terminal at 0dB
(-) tweet terminal and (+) terminal at -3dB


----------



## placenta

Funniest thing happened today.. I forgot I turned my sub off last night.. and all day long today i was driving around having no idea i wasnt running a sub. My bass was so huge from the front I never even noticed. And when I did turn on my sub, it degraded my sound a little. Cuz it didnt match up quite right with the fronts. My system excels on techno, which I guess most systems do. But when it gets to very detailed music its not perfect. I'm liking the system more and more as I tune it, and starting to like these tweets also. As long as there are no female voices.. I'm not running any EQ attenuation anymore, just a +4 boost at 63Hz which is my trademark.


----------



## ZoNtO

So did you fix this 'problem' you mentioned above today? Wouldn't just crossing the mids a bit higher and leaving a small gap between the sub's xover point alleviate the muddiness you might be experiencing? Like 63 hz 12db and 50 hz 18db slope?

I'm excited for your results! I'll be honest though, I do worry about crossing the mids that low when I get them, even if they can take it. Did they give you a spec sheet with 'em that gives you the Fs?


----------



## placenta

ZoNtO said:


> So did you fix this 'problem' you mentioned above today? Wouldn't just crossing the mids a bit higher and leaving a small gap between the sub's xover point alleviate the muddiness you might be experiencing? Like 63 hz 12db and 50 hz 18db slope?
> 
> I'm excited for your results! I'll be honest though, I do worry about crossing the mids that low when I get them, even if they can take it. Did they give you a spec sheet with 'em that gives you the Fs?


I'll have to see if i have a spec sheet.

no spec sheet, just on the box:

Frequency Response: 25Hz to 32000Hz

In this one case, I think the 25Hz is true. Found a spec sheet, i'll pic and put it up


----------



## placenta

The crossover point in the passive is 2000Hz/12db.


----------



## kappa546

you're still using the passives right? 2khz 2nd order on that tweet is probably why it sounds so bad on female vocals. this corroborates the "my prs set sounds better active" claim.


----------



## placenta

kappa546 said:


> you're still using the passives right? 2khz 2nd order on that tweet is probably why it sounds so bad on female vocals. this corroborates the "my prs set sounds better active" claim.


ahh very interesting... it's because there is too much overlap at 2KHz?


----------



## MIAaron

I personally don't think the tweet should be crossed that low. It gets far too stressed with information in the 2k range. I have some piano tracks that I can't play due to break up, even at low listening levels.


----------



## placenta

MIAaron said:


> I personally don't think the tweet should be crossed that low. It gets far too stressed with information in the 2k range. I have some piano tracks that I can't play due to break up, even at low listening levels.


exactly.. and i also notice way too much "voice" from my tweets.. is that the problem? 

what about putting in a killer passive box in place of the PRS, like a MB Quart Q box. Would that solve this problem?

another Pioneer box that uses a 3khz point

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pioneer-PREMIER...ryZ79840QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## kappa546

agreed. that tweeter shouldn't be played below 3khz on a steep slope imo.

you can experiment with other passives but active would be better. does your hu have the ability?


----------



## placenta

kappa546 said:


> agreed. that tweeter shouldn't be played below 3khz on a steep slope imo.
> 
> you can experiment with other passives but active would be better. does your hu have the ability?


ya.. unfortunately it does... 9887.. now im not as done as I thought. i might be looking for either a tweet amp or a sub amp. already have my eye on one.


----------



## dBassHz

placenta, you have an impreza, right? Are you able to fit these woofers with the 1" spacer under the door panels?


----------



## placenta

dBassHz said:


> placenta, you have an impreza, right? Are you able to fit these woofers with the 1" spacer under the door panels?


yes. 1" spacer. but only after removing the magnet cover. and only on 04-05 door panels.

watch the vid
http://74.220.202.31/~bellbott/newadapters.wmv


----------



## dBassHz

placenta said:


> yes. 1" spacer. but only after removing the magnet cover. and only on 04-05 door panels.
> 
> watch the vid
> http://74.220.202.31/~bellbott/newadapters.wmv


Hahahah... you have a video for everything. I guess a video is worth 1 million words + the commentary.  

I have a '05 forester so my door panels are not exactly like the impreza but the door cavity is.


----------



## placenta

had to post my new update on these..

they are really starting to amaze me now.. the tweets have become a lot more tolerable. The system sounds perfect, and I'm not even sure I'll use my Sinfoni amp now. Theres just not much I want to change. 

Some of my settings for reference because I want to remember exactly how I have it:

*Crossovers:*

Highpass: 40Hz / 12dB slope
Lowpass: 63Hz / 18db slope

Can someone graph that plot above for me?

*EQ:*

63Hz / +4dB / Q1.5
2kHz / -6dB / Q1.5
8kHz / -2dB / Q1.5

I forget which "Q" is the wide and which is narrow?


----------



## DejaWiz

have you tried switching the HU to the 7 band Graphic Equalizer and messing around with it?


----------



## placenta

DejaWiz said:


> have you tried switching the HU to the 7 band Graphic Equalizer and messing around with it?


no .


----------



## DejaWiz

placenta said:


> no .


Just a suggestion.. since the selectable frequencies are 63, 150, 400, 1000, 2500, 6300, and 17500 Hz and those are pretty close to what you have set up in the Parametric plus gives you a couple more settings.

Oh yeah, and 1 is narrow, 1.5 is median, and 3 is wide for the Q, iirc.


----------



## placenta

DejaWiz said:


> Just a suggestion.. since the selectable frequencies are 63, 150, 400, 1000, 2500, 6300, and 17500 Hz and those are pretty close to what you have set up in the Parametric plus gives you a couple more settings.
> 
> Oh yeah, and 1 is narrow, 1.5 is median, and 3 is wide for the Q, iirc.


I dont feel the need for any more points. I like it the way it is now. So I go median in the width, thanks.


----------



## DejaWiz

placenta said:


> I don't feel the need for any more points. I like it the way it is now. So I go median in the width, thanks.


Merely a friendly suggestion. Glad you got it to where you like 'em.


----------



## placenta

DejaWiz said:


> Merely a friendly suggestion. Glad you got it to where you like 'em.


Ah didnt mean to sound cold. I'm always up for comments. I'm just a bit worn out from this 6 weeks project. If its sounding just right to me, I won't be touching it until I get bored again. I have been listening to SIRIUS on it the last 2 days and it was super clean and high SQ sounding. Thats how good it is.. The IASCA CD gets super boring after the 100th time....


----------



## placenta

Would it be a accurate comparo to say that Focal Polyglass would be a step down to these components? At least in the mid driver portion? I remember my Polyglass seemed "lighter" and would hit easier in the upper bass ranges.


----------



## kappa546

i'd say so


----------



## placenta

I mentioned that as the Focal Polyglass seemed more user friendly, and easier to tune. I just cant figure out why they dont sound that good crossed at 80hz. I did get them sounding a little bit better when i moved my +4 boost from 63Hz up to 80Hz.


----------



## WuNgUn

You upped 63Hz +4 dB to these??
Yikes...
These aren't subs...
Are they enclosed?
I'd maybe cut 'em off at 150-200Hz...nothing lower than that, especially if your driving them with decent wattage.


----------



## placenta

WuNgUn said:


> You upped 63Hz +4 dB to these??
> Yikes...
> These aren't subs...
> Are they enclosed?
> I'd maybe cut 'em off at 150-200Hz...nothing lower than that, especially if your driving them with decent wattage.


well i upped 63hz +4 in my EQ. which would be heard in both my mids and my sub.

i was thinking about grabbing some 63hz boost from my tru sub amp channel, so it would only effect my sub.


----------



## evangelos K

placenta, what heppened to the CDTs? I told you (b15) that you would hate them


----------



## placenta

evangelos K said:


> placenta, what heppened to the CDTs? I told you (b15) that you would hate them


i didnt hate them, i just got discouraged with a noise issue for a while. i sold them too quick. when they were working the sounded good. but not the same level as these PRS.


----------



## placenta

Decided I might as well keep my experimentation in this thread rather than making a new one.. 

TWEET PLACEMENT.

I have had the tweets here:










The tweets have always been way too bright, and I run -3 on the passive box already. I then have to run -6db @ 2 Khz and -4db @ 8Khz just so I can tolerate them. That in turn seems to loose some detail or clarity? 

So I took out my cut up a pillars and reinstalled some new ones:



















I then got my strapping and am doing more tests on lower down tweets. The strapping is nice for temp work as it is bendable, yet stays in place when you choose it. For my next 24-48 hours of testing, this is the design I am using. If they sound perfect, I would cut my doors. I surely wouldnt want to leave them hanging all sloppy like that permanently. I am seeing how they sound exactly in front of the mids.



















I am interested in whether some of that brightness improves with them down lower. Or even my imaging of phasing.. Because I have been eyeing the Alpine Type-X set lately, but I want to try these PRS for a while longer to see if I can get them sounding just right. I especially like the reviews of that Alpine tweet..

Thoughts on how my sound might change with this major move from a pillars to mid location with none of my settings being touched?


----------



## kappa546

you tell us 

just a suggestion: a dashmat will dramatically improve sound with pillar mounted tweeters, and you should also be installing them at least 2in from the highest portion of the dash not right where you had them. experiment with a towel on your dash and better placement.


----------



## placenta

kappa546 said:


> you tell us
> 
> just a suggestion: a dashmat will dramatically improve sound with pillar mounted tweeters, and you should also be installing them at least 2in from the highest portion of the dash not right where you had them. experiment with a towel on your dash and better placement.


no way i'd put them even higher on the a pillars just from looks alone. my car will get broken into quick. i didnt like the flashiness where there were to begin with. i hope the lower install sounds almost as good so i can keep them hidden.


----------



## placenta

well.. so far i would say theyre no better overall.. sort of the same. some pluses and some minus..

no more visible theft encouraging
no music blasting in my face, i dont mind a lower sound
tweets still have the same harshness mostly

i need to tune it a bit more before i decide, its not sounding too good overall right now.. im not happy at all. Crossovers seem to be my nemesis.. I should just change the components back to full range where I liked them.


----------



## placenta

update on more testing..

I aimed the tweets towards the opposite persons head next..The on axis wasnt really any worse.. the problem isnt the aiming.. the problem is simply the tweets get way too much power. theyre always louder than the mids. So by the time I get the mids to a nice rich level, the tweeters are overpowering and way too loud. Simple as that. That set should have come with an additional setting of -6db on the passive. the set would sound so killer with another -3db off the tweets..

the real problem is too much amp power (me = 100Wrms) most likely. Especially TRU power which is more like 150Wrms on any mainstream amp. This set is rated for 50Wrms... I know everyone puts in far more.. but that could throw off the original design and make the tweet too loud.

but i do honestly have my heart set on some alpine x and ill be ordering soon probably. they are even shallower than these mids. Rated for more RMS power (100Wrms). Far more advanced passives with phasing modules to suit your install. Tweets that everyone says are incredible. Not to mention i loved my type s coax as you all remember, so i've had great experiences with Alpine speakers so far. I have to have them... even tho theyre $400 shipped..


----------



## effenay

placenta said:


> ... the problem is simply the tweets get way too much power. theyre always louder than the mids. So by the time I get the mids to a nice rich level, the tweeters are overpowering and way too loud. Simple as that. That set should have come with an additional setting of -6db on the passive. the set would sound so killer with another -3db off the tweets..
> 
> the real problem is too much amp power (me = 100Wrms) most likely ...


So why don't you run them active? 

I was very happy with my PRS set running active, 100W to each mid and 50W to each tweeter (attenuated).


----------



## placenta

effenay said:


> So why don't you run them active?
> 
> I was very happy with my PRS set running active, 100W to each mid and 50W to each tweeter (attenuated).


I bet active would work a lot better, so you could send a lot LESS power to the tweets.. 

my seas neo textiles arrive tomorrow.. ill be testing them right when they arrive.


----------



## placenta

Had some revelations on my tuning.. Got the components sounding a lot better. The problem is gain for gain, the fronts have too much power. The sub needs to get to 20-22 volume to start sounding full. But the front components were getting uncomfortable at 20. So I attenuated my front RCA -6dB which evened everything out. Now the sub is overpowering and I always have to turn it down from level 15, but its closer to correct. I did add a little 63hz boost on my TRU amp sub channel so i wouldnt have to send it to my components as well. I went to "9 o clock" or like 1/4 boost. The entire swing is 18db, so i might be about +4 boost im guessing, but only on the sub channel. I could probably crank back that boost a tad considering how loud my sub is now. 

The time alignment is confusing as hell, I was going in circles trying to figure it out.

So my measurements:

Front left to my head: 42"
Front right to my head: 54"
Subs to me head: 60"

so I would not touch the subs T/A. Then I would want the most T/A on left front and a little on the right front? so I would go 18" T/A on the right front side. Then subtract 12" (difference in left to right) for the left drivers side, or 6" T/A. 

Man I'm all backwards.. my front left is supposed to have the most..

or is it as simple as:

60"-42" = 18" for left front
60"-54" = 6" for right front


----------



## placenta

Man the system is sounding amazing ever since i attenuated my front RCA 6dB. The PRS tweets are definitely better on-axis. More clarity and detail. I did multiple test on the same songs. I gotta keep this set a while instead of wasting more money. The voice and females arent even harsh anymore, I was just over powering the set.


----------



## placenta

just want to throw in a PRS comment in the review thread.

The tweets are incredible when running active off Sinfoni. All the harshness is gone. I am currently running them 3.2KHz HP/24. They are the most musical smooth tweet I have heard in a long time.


----------



## WuNgUn

placenta said:


> just want to throw in a PRS comment in the review thread.
> 
> The tweets are incredible when running active off Sinfoni. All the harshness is gone. I am currently running them 3.2KHz HP/24. They are the most musical smooth tweet I have heard in a long time.


So you find the tweets a little harsh when run thru the Pioneer cross-over?


----------



## placenta

WuNgUn said:


> So you find the tweets a little harsh when run thru the Pioneer cross-over?



a LITTLE?? way harsh. like a lot of people have found. Of course you can EQ down the higher ranges to help it, but it wont do anything to change that crappy passive crossover point.


----------



## Sinfoni_USA

Sinfoni on the tweets....


----------



## WuNgUn

Dammit! I might have to re-think my whole setup now...
I have a pair of Tru 4.65's...I was going to run front and rear stage, passive, bridged (200W)...
But now I wonder how good 65W's will be to each corner, but active?


----------



## placenta

WuNgUn said:


> Dammit! I might have to re-think my whole setup now...
> I have a pair of Tru 4.65's...I was going to run front and rear stage, passive, bridged (200W)...
> But now I wonder how good 65W's will be to each corner, but active?


I would do the active over the bridged.. but you wont have any separate control over your front vs rear component sets??


----------



## WuNgUn

placenta said:


> I would do the active over the bridged.. but you wont have any separate control over your front vs rear component sets??


I'm running a carpc, AudioMulch and 7.1 surround (well, 5.1...the other 2 channels are for the VU meters)...

Basically, 2 channel audio is inputed into AudioMulch, and then that software sends those 2 channels to the front and to the rear (center channel is for 5.1 movies only)...
4 channels + sub output...
EACH channel can be individually processed in AudioMulch for delay, EQ, phase and crossover, etc...

For active, I'm thinking one amp for the left side (4 channels...2 tweets and 2 drivers), the other amp for the other side...another 4 channels...

So now, in AudioMulch, I need to setup 4 channels per side (instead of 2)...2 channels crossed over for the tweets, and 2 channels for the mids...
Do this for both left and right channel...

Total control!


----------



## kappa546

placenta said:


> just want to throw in a PRS comment in the review thread.
> 
> The tweets are incredible when running active off Sinfoni. All the harshness is gone. I am currently running them 3.2KHz HP/24. They are the most musical smooth tweet I have heard in a long time.


told ya so.


----------



## Eskimo

I'm running the mids with Seas tweets (active), and even with the mediocre built in x-over in my amp (waiting on the imprint module to do a better job with the crossover), it's a great combo, and though I never ran them passive, I like the Seas better than the pioneer tweets. they're just "smoother" sounding to me.


----------



## ZoNtO

PM sent

Thanks for the continual updates!


----------



## kornsined

Great to hear that running active makes these sound even better.


----------



## rekd0514

Glad you finally got them running active. Huge change ain't it.


----------



## placenta

ya, i know it can use some tuning here and there. but i have a good start.

i bolted up my tweets in their permanent place this morning. on my kicks aimed towards opposite seats or so. Pretty much good enough, especially since i havent even tuned yet to make them better.

Now I'm at the point where I am ready for a serious tuning ear. My car is totally reassembled and i dont plan to change any gear again for a while.

With no attenuation on any RCA, i cant hear the sub well enough. but the mids and tweets are at a level i like. Unfortunately i might have to attenuate them just so the sub can keep up. I dont want to raise the gains on the sub amp and risk clipping.

the mids/tweets reach the perfect point at 20-21 on volume. But the sub reaches its perfect point at 22-24 volume.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

^^ bump the sub level up a little man, if you hear anything odd, you can always bring it down... match that beyoch mang.. do it... do it...


----------



## WuNgUn

Could of probably posted this elsewhere, but...
Here is my setup, in software  Using AudioMulch...










2 Ch. input from the media player, then EQ'd (I figure I won't need to EQ each specific channel), then into rubber filter (crossover), where the 'left' channel is setup for bandpass, the 'right' become the highpass...
Then I can time align both high and low frequencies to both front and rear speakers, for both left and right side...phew!!
And then it's outputed to the sound cards...yes, cards, plural...
I need 8 channel output, so I'll be running two, 7.1 sound cards on board...
I decided to Ebay my X-Plosion in favor of the Asus Xonar...well, two Xonars

(Note, this layout doesn't show the sub output)

Also, if I need to phase shift anything (hi or low), there is this layout...










So far, not a huge impact on CPU load...thankfully!

Here is my crossover setup right now...comments??










I set up the lowend bandpass to put a 'basement' on the frequency as well as an upper cutoff...12dB slope...
The highpass is around 3000Hz @ 6dB


----------



## Powers

I don't quite understand all the highly- researched testing, but I am thinking about picking up a set of these tonight for $120 new. 

I remember my Pioneer REV's being very bright, almost too much. Are these as well, or are they warmer?


----------



## placenta

Powers said:


> I don't quite understand all the highly- researched testing, but I am thinking about picking up a set of these tonight for $120 new.
> 
> I remember my Pioneer REV's being very bright, almost too much. Are these as well, or are they warmer?


for $120 new, grab them quick. I paid $275 new. as long as you're sure you have the right model number.


----------



## WuNgUn

That's a hell of a deal!


----------



## dBassHz

Powers said:


> I am thinking about picking up a set of these tonight for $120 new.


So are there multiple sets? If there are I'll take one.


----------



## DejaWiz

Powers said:


> I don't quite understand all the highly- researched testing, but I am thinking about picking up a set of these tonight for $120 new.
> 
> I remember my Pioneer REV's being very bright, almost too much. Are these as well, or are they warmer?


Are you sure you're getting the TS-C720PRS and not the TS-D1702C?


----------



## placenta

Went from this:










To this:










It is a bit better, and every little bit helps. I moved them just low enough so the previous holes wouldnt show up. The more upward angle helps make it by the legs up to the head.


----------



## mikey7182

I think he's thinking of the Pioneer TS-D1720Cs. Wholesale cost on them is about $103 so that sounds about right. If they are in fact the 720PRSs, sign me up for 2 sets.


----------



## placenta

On this new tweet aiming setup: 

Its worse. I'm putting it back the way it was. I felt it was perfect before, now its unpleasant. The tweets are a tiny bit harsher and less clear when aimed right at your head.


----------



## Babs

Might be getting some nasty reflections from your door and dash. Imagine putting some plastic car molding up next to nice home speakers.. Would stink.


----------



## masse1369

I'm trying to decide where to put the tweets in my 2008 Tundra. The stock tweeter location is in the dash, firing up into the windshield? Do you think this would be better than having them flush mounted into the a-pillars or the sail panels? I can't install it, so I wanted to know what the best option is when I take everything to get installed...TIA


----------



## placenta

masse1369 said:


> I'm trying to decide where to put the tweets in my 2008 Tundra. The stock tweeter location is in the dash, firing up into the windshield? Do you think this would be better than having them flush mounted into the a-pillars or the sail panels? I can't install it, so I wanted to know what the best option is when I take everything to get installed...TIA


i would say whichever location is close to the same distance as your midrange to your head. usually the a pillar is a closer distance match than the sail.


----------



## mikey7182

Depends on where in the dash. I have a single cab S-10 and have my tweeters in the stock 4x6 locations in the dash, and they sound great. Really brings the stage up and they blend well with my mids. Throw them up there temporarily with some 2 sided tape or velcro and see which location sounds the best.


----------



## masse1369

They're on the far left and right...


----------



## WuNgUn

Seeing as these are for the non-perfect car environment, Pioneer I think designed them to work really well off axis. I've heard good things about these off axis, so keep experimenting.
I plan on putting mine in the doors with the drivers...


----------



## placenta

On a couple really clean deep songs i heard some breakup on my mid. So, i changed my mid-low crossover point from 63Hz/12db to 63Hz/18db to tighten it up. That cut out just enough bass to stop the problem area.

I dont really have enough sub but not much i can do about that. Its at 63Hz/18dB. 

I still have my rear deck with the hole in it if I want to reinstall it. I might put a grill on it out of car and reinstall it. Since I'm keeping the car a long while I figure why not get the extra bass. 

The tweet is pretty perfect at 3.2KHz/24db. I tried it at 2.5KHz/24db and didnt like the extra tones and harshness they made. 

The only outstanding piece I'm not sure of is the mid-high crossover point. I think it's at 2.5KHz/12db. Thats a hard piece to judge when trying different crossover points. What do you listen for in the upper range of your mid to determine a good point?


----------



## WuNgUn

placenta said:


> On a couple really clean deep songs i heard some breakup on my mid. So, i changed my mid-low crossover point from 63Hz/12db to 63Hz/18db to tighten it up. That cut out just enough bass to stop the problem area.
> 
> I dont really have enough sub but not much i can do about that. Its at 63Hz/18dB.
> 
> I still have my rear deck with the hole in it if I want to reinstall it. I might put a grill on it out of car and reinstall it. Since I'm keeping the car a long while I figure why not get the extra bass.
> 
> The tweet is pretty perfect at 3.2KHz/24db. I tried it at 2.5KHz/24db and didnt like the extra tones and harshness they made.
> 
> The only outstanding piece I'm not sure of is the mid-high crossover point. I think it's at 2.5KHz/12db. Thats a hard piece to judge when trying different crossover points. What do you listen for in the upper range of your mid to determine a good point?


I've been playing around with my crossover points on my set as well...
I'm gonna try your high-pass setup, but I've been bandpassing the mids...
I'm liking 90Hz to 4KHz with 24dB on top and 12dB on the bottom...
And with that, I took the basement for the tweets to 4KHz with 12dB slope...
I'll try dropping it down to 3200Hz, but I'd like to get the upper mid closer to that, or stretch out the slope...maybe 2500Hz at 6dB?

For your mid high, unplug your tweets and listen to it that way...you'll be able to easily hear how well your mids can handle the upper 2.5 to 4+Khz...
Harshness should be easy to hear...


----------



## WuNgUn

After some hours of messing with x-over points, I'm almost convinced I'm no better off with this active setup than when I was running with the Pioneer cross overs...
If anything, going -6dB on the tweets would probably equal just a fine a sound output. Problem is, you can't with the Pioneer crossover network...


----------



## placenta

WuNgUn said:


> After some hours of messing with x-over points, I'm almost convinced I'm no better off with this active setup than when I was running with the Pioneer cross overs...
> If anything, going -6dB on the tweets would probably equal just a fine a sound output. Problem is, you can't with the Pioneer crossover network...


precisely my thoughts.. if only that passive crossover had a -6db option also.


----------



## auser72

I have a set of crossovers(FNQ2614) left over from old system, the tweeters crossover at 4k with 24db slope the also have 0,-3,-6db jumpers for tweeters. do think they would work with 720's


----------



## placenta

auser72 said:


> I have a set of crossovers(FNQ2614) left over from old system, the tweeters crossover at 4k with 24db slope the also have 0,-3,-6db jumpers for tweeters. do think they would work with 720's


cant be much worse than the passives they come with.


----------



## mikey7182

Those are the old Fanatic Q xovers... great set of components.


----------



## placenta

mikey7182 said:


> Those are the old Fanatic Q xovers... great set of components.



I had the Fosgate Q's...

on the left, compared to Focal Polyglass:



















Compared to Polyglass Slims:










On right compared to MB Quart Reference:


----------



## auser72

placenta said:


> I had the Fosgate Q's...
> 
> on the left, compared to Focal Polyglass:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to Polyglass Slims:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On right compared to MB Quart Reference:


best set of components i have owned, i just installed the 720 yesterday so far so good , i hope i get better midbass response once broken in and eq the harsness off tweeters. I am running off a pdx4.100 and thinking about going active off head unit(cda7897)


----------



## redline8k

Im looking to get these componets and run them active off a jl 500/5
100rms to the mid and 25rms to the tweet. do you think there is too much of a difference in power to make them sound like a set?

I also have 3 8w3's in a sealed box so I have more than enough low end for my taste. I also listen to just about everything. I hope thats enough info for you guys. Here are the specs on the amp x-overs

front x-over
Fully-variable (50 Hz - 5 kHz), selectable-slope (12 or 24 dB per octave) BP or HP
rear x-over
same as above
Ive read all 36 pages of this post and have not seen a good starting point for the x-over points both tweet and mid. any help would be great.

thanks for your time
-nick


----------



## placenta

ended up running my PRS mid with a Alpine tweet active. I like the combo.

63hz/12 thru 2500hz/18 for the mid

3500hz/24 and up for the tweet

No sub.


----------



## mikey7182

Did you get rid of those Fanatic Qs? I'm hoping there's a slim chance that the date stamp on your pics is wrong...


----------



## placenta

That date stamp is right. The height of my car stereo fever was 2003.


----------



## mikey7182

Well that sucks... the odds of finding a clean set of those these days is slim to none!


----------



## redline8k

so you guys think that the jl amp would work for these. Id just have to run the x-overs in bandpass mode. is 25rms really enough?
thanks
-nick


----------



## rdv

i would think 25 rms to the tweets and 100 to the mids is ok. i ran them with an old alpine 30 watt amp and the mids with another alpine at 40 watts and i had to keep the tweeter amp gains at zero to be able to balance them out with the mids. 

i am trying them passive now, i had to cut a few bands around 3.5k but they do sound good this way. i think going active and just lowering their level relative to the mids is a good enough start to make them sound good.


----------



## placenta

redline8k said:


> so you guys think that the jl amp would work for these. Id just have to run the x-overs in bandpass mode. is 25rms really enough?
> thanks
> -nick


25wrms is fine for PRS tweets. They are loud enough as it is.


----------



## placenta

I had to add another comment about my PRS set. Things become clearer as i think back.

There is one thing the tweet has which no other tweet i've heard has. 

One word: Clarity. 

there was something so clear and crisp and precise about the PRS tweets. My Alpine type-x tweets just aren't as clear and clean. They dont stand out and make themselves noticed as much as the PRS tweets do.


----------



## redline8k

Cool, I cant wait to order these. Ill be back with some install pics
-nick


----------



## placenta

the only bad thing about this set (aside from the passive crossovers), is the tweeter mounting options. Really bad design. Once you clip the tweets into the surface mounting cups you can't get them out without bending up the clip. And they come with no surface mounting cup. I did another method of install in my test a-pillars and ill get a pic today.


----------



## rdv

yeah i had mine surface mounted for a while and to take them out of the mounts without breaking anything, i had to stick a small screwdriver through the back hole to unscrew the metal clips. i think i could have broken them if i forced them out


----------



## blacksatsc2

I am considering picking these up. I have a JL Audio A4300 4 channel which pushes 70x4 bridgeable is 225x2. I have been hearing that the 225 would be safe on these speakers. Is that true? would the 70x4 be enough? Lead me in the right direction please.


----------



## rdv

i am using them passive on the front channels of an esx 60 x 4. they get loud enough and sound good enough for me. i do think they can sound better with even more power and have been contemplating on bridging the amp but i want to keep things simple.


----------



## whozonline

awesome stuff dude. i wana get these in india but they the company says it will take them another 6 months to get this series in india.


----------



## placenta

They are getting really hard to find. Some people know how I had this set, then i went to Alpine type-x for a while.. back and forth.. this and that... well i sold all my PRS stuff a few weeks ago.. Then I sold my type-x tweets to try Seas neos.. Well... I miss the PRS too much. I found them in stock online, and have a new set coming on Tuesday. There is no doubt in my mind that I like them more than the Alpines. Possibly even the tweeter also. All I have left from my alpine set is the mids which I will sell once they're uninstalled. The PRS are really amazing, and I think they are well worth the money.


----------



## szubek

I just have my set ordered and shipped of ebay. Going overseas so won't see it for another couple of weeks  . I sold my hardly used (just for few days) infinity's kappa 6.1 to get pioneers - all based on that thread.... must be crazy.


----------



## Oliver

auser72 said:


> best set of components i have owned, i just installed the 720 yesterday so far so good , i hope i get better midbass response once broken in and eq the harsness off tweeters. I am running off a pdx4.100 and thinking about going active off head unit(cda7897)


Did the midbass improve ?


----------



## placenta

My second set of PRS arrive today and will be installed today. I will be doing active even though I'd like to keep it more simple and just go passive. But I know that active will sound a lot better so I might as well leave it. The sub box in my trunk drops my rear end probably an inch which sucks. I think I can feel a difference in the handling for the worse because of it. But it's the price you pay for having decent sound.


----------



## WuNgUn

placenta said:


> My second set of PRS arrive today and will be installed today. I will be doing active even though I'd like to keep it more simple and just go passive. But I know that active will sound a lot better so I might as well leave it. The sub box in my trunk drops my rear end probably an inch which sucks. I think I can feel a difference in the handling for the worse because of it. But it's the price you pay for having decent sound.


I didn't think active sounded WAY better than the passive setup. I might need to tune my corss-over points better?
I know what you mean about the sub box...I used to have a thumpin' "aquarium" in the back of my car...4 X 10" MTX subs in a "7th order isobaric bandpass" enclosure with 3/4" plexi front...
Basically two subs faced each other, one pushed, one pulled, seperated by pairs, with 2 different interior volumes, and two tuned port lengthes...
It must of weighted 160Lbs.!
Car handled WAY better without it...


----------



## placenta

WuNgUn said:


> I didn't think active sounded WAY better than the passive setup. I might need to tune my corss-over points better?


Really? I have found it weird how so many people here talk about the poor crossover point in the passive box and the tweet harshness problems. Yet most of the "professional" reviews (which arent as professional as these peoples reviews actually), never mention a single problem with the passive crossover. I personally heard huge problems in the tweet area in my own car, and it was painfully harsh until I tried active at 4KHz/24. When I went active on these the harsh areas disappeared. 

Are there people in this thread who think the passive crossovers are fine and perfectly useable?


----------



## WuNgUn

placenta said:


> Really? I have found it weird how so many people here talk about the poor crossover point in the passive box and the tweet harshness problems. Yet most of the "professional" reviews (which arent as professional as these peoples reviews actually), never mention a single problem with the passive crossover. I personally heard huge problems in the tweet area in my own car, and it was painfully harsh until I tried active at 4KHz/24. When I went active on these the harsh areas disappeared.
> 
> Are there people in this thread who think the passive crossovers are fine and perfectly useable?


I'm sure some passive cross-over networks work perfectly fine...
I just don't have that much experience with many.
I found the Pioneers can be a little much in the upper midrange as well, so crossing over the mids properly is very important too.
Or maybe I'm just getting old!


----------



## placenta

My new set of PRS is installed. As soon as I put them in I felt the sub sounds return to my front stage. And I love the tweets when active. I am tired of swapping, I plan to enjoy these a while. I removed my alpine type-x mids and Seas Neo tweeter for this new set.

I opened the box and admired the fine pieces of craftsmanship:



















The Neo was deeper, and I could reach the tweet from behind the cup using a small screw. Well, the PRS tweet wasnt as deep, so after not finding a screw long enough, I dug deep into my big PC building bin and found the perfect solution. Motherboard risers:










I then staged the tweet into the Alpine type-x tweet cup as you can see here:





































I am very stoked that I had no issues during installation. I did pry the backs off the magnets again to avoid any extra clearance issues. I could immediately tell the difference when I fired them up.


----------



## rekd0514

They look nice. Funny how that standoff fits right in the back of the tweeter. Awesome idea, it worked very well in your situation.


----------



## jsun_g

Really appreciate all the info and am seriously considering purchasing the Pio's. I spent about 2 hours reading all the posts so far and didn't see any info on how the mids perform in kickpanels. Has anybody done this and what were the results? I plan to make the largest kickpanels practical for my car (hope to come up with about 0.3 cu ft sealed for each) and wanted to know what I might expect.

I have downloaded the T/S params and will plug them in, but wanted to hear of any practical experience.


----------



## placenta

Before my PRS were installed, my sub would be at 10-12 level all the time. In last 2 days of fresh PRS testing, my sub has to be 5-8 level or else its way too much low frequencies.


----------



## placenta

All you PRS users listen to this crap...

I bought my PRS set at woofersetc last week for $299 + tax/shipping. They said they have less than 5 sets left. 

All of a sudden the speakers are up ONE HUNDRED to $399 since less than a week ago...

Screw woofersetc, greedy bastards..


----------



## Babs

Man that's just proper free-market system.. It's a beautiful thing.. There's a detrimental imbalance in the universe if the demand increases significantly because it's the latest forum boner, but the prices don't increase to compensate.

If I were a dealer and I was seeing all the sudden the supplies drying up because a single product was selling everywhere like hotcakes, I'd do exactly the same thing. It's good proper business.

... I'm a Laissez-faire kinda guy so I believe this is just and proper and good for the world in general. Same thing happens when a product isn't selling but it's original price was expensive... You'd want to see those prices drop out of the sky.. right. 

Trick is the better equipped and adaptive, savvy, educated consumer will be able to see the values of sleeper products that are excellent, but the rest of the market didn't catch on. The "deals"... Problem is in here we bloat up about them.. They get popular, price increases as it should... ain't no deal anymore. We need a "ssssshhhhhhh don't let out the secret but these things rock for the money... " section that isn't seen by the world maybe. hehehe 

 good coffee this morning.. sorry.


----------



## WuNgUn

Wow...I'm glad I got my 2 pair when I did!


----------



## placenta

Babs said:


> good coffee this morning.. sorry.


I could understand, $20-$50 more maybe.. but up $100 in 1 week? Lucky I got in right before that. And I tried to bargain with them too before I bought, they know they are the only people that have them in stock. And $400? No, not worth it at all. But $300 was, for me.


----------



## WuNgUn

$300 is still too much...
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PIONEER-TS-...VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247


----------



## Babs

Whether it's $10 more or $1000 more in one day or month period... If that dealer is selling them at acceptible levels at that price, then that's what the market will bear. If supply is drying up without demand decrease, resulting in significant price increase, it's natural motivator to divert from this apple to a different apple.. maybe a granny smith.  .... 

So I guess the real question is, for you guys that know these speakers well (own them, heard them, compared them)... Who's the closest competitor in terms of sound quality, output, performance, etc in comp systems like these to the PRS's?


----------



## placenta

Babs said:


> Whether it's $10 more or $1000 more in one day or month period... If that dealer is selling them at acceptible levels at that price, then that's what the market will bear. If supply is drying up without demand decrease, resulting in significant price increase, it's natural motivator to divert from this apple to a different apple.. maybe a granny smith.  ....
> 
> So I guess the real question is, for you guys that know these speakers well (own them, heard them, compared them)... Who's the closest competitor in terms of sound quality, output, performance, etc in comp systems like these to the PRS's?


Ive had TWO sets, compared them among various combos of Seas/ Alpine/CDT and maybe some more I forgot by now.. Nothing comes close to the sound for me at $300.. But $400... I bet you could find a lot of equal products.


----------



## Switt23

WuNgUn said:


> $300 is still too much...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PIONEER-TS-...VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247


I bought those .

Hopefully they sound alright. I will be hooking up a PPI Sedona 430iX to them.

Does anybody know if the Coustic 3 way crossover I bought would work to make them active, or would it be a waste. 2 people have told me not to waste my time with it and just run them passive.

I have an 8" woofer I am mounting on the rear decklid and an old school RF Punch 40 to power the woofer.

I'm lost as to which i should do right now though. I know they will sound better than the stock cheap paper speakers that's in there now, but Passive or use the Coustic and try for Active?


----------



## placenta

Switt23 said:


> I bought those .


most of those mega places dont really have them in stock. will be interested to see how quick they ship it.


----------



## Switt23

Mine are in my closet. Took 4 days to get here, but they are brand new sealed in the box with zero dents/dings/scratches/imperfections.


----------



## mkygod

Just got a new pair of these installed and now i am experiencing the harshness of the tweeters. I got the crossovers set at 0db for the tweets and the tweets are mounted on the upper part of the doors.

I didnt want to go the active crossover route, so I tried taming it with the EQ settings on my kenwood excelon headunit. Any idea what frequencies to lessen to get the tweets sounding more natural? should i try the -3db tweeter crossover setting?

The EQ on my headunit consists of these settings below. Any advice on how to tame the tweets (short of spending more money or remounting the tweeters) would be appreciated:

bass:

Bass center freq. Range: 60/70/80/100 or 150 hz
bass level: -8 -- +8
Bass Q factor: 1.00/1.25/1.50/2.00
Bass Extend: on/off

mid:

middle center freq. Range: .5/1.0/1.5/2.0 khz
Middle Level: -8 -- +8
Middle Q Factor: 1.0/2.0

treble:

Treble center freq. Range: 10.0/12.5/15.0/17.5 khz
Treble level: -8 -- +8

What settings do you guys think would be best for adjusting these EQ settings on my headunit?


----------



## an2ny888

why not try the lower -3db setting? also i've heard these tweeters need some break in time. i still haven't decided whether to get this seps or not, these harsh tweeter comments are making me lean towards the spx17 pro's


----------



## mkygod

Yeah i just got them, they have maybe a maximum of 1 hour playing time total in my car, so its not even close to being broken in.

I have it mounted on top of my doors so the tweets are sorta more in your face than it would if you mounted on yoru pillars or near your midwoofers. I think if you mounted it at the bottom of the doors, it would really help take out the harshness. I think the tweets are very capable; it just seems like the crossover is making it work too hard by making it reproduce some of the upper-mids.

At my local audio shop, i also auditioned the Alpine SPX-17REF and did find them quite harsh as well, but it was more on the higher end of the frequency spectrum. Not sure if it uses the same tweets as the PROs, but it's got that metallic sound that i didnt like when i heard cymbal crashes and such.


----------



## LauZaIM

Can anybody here give a comparison between the PRS tweets and the PG RSD65cs tweets?


----------



## ATX

2 questions;

Has anyone run the TS-C720PRS's off of a JL 300/4 and if so how did they sound?

How do these compare to Focal KF's with price not a consideration?

Thanks!


----------



## chrisw85

I think the tweeter is 8 ohms and the woofer 4 ohms on this set. So, you could figure out what the cap value would be to change the passive crossover to 2.5k or 3k and do so, I think that'd be the most solid solution for those who can't go active with these.
As far as the values for the cap or inductor, I haven't a clue. Maybe someone here can chime in on this.


----------



## lostdaytomorrow

I went straight from PRO60's to these 720's without changing anything else but the crossovers, mids, and tweets, same locations and everything. Same gain, same everything.

720's are better in every category.


----------



## an2ny888

so you're not having any problems with the tweeter being a bit harsh?


----------



## deff808

Anyone noticing at high volumes, it breaks out?

Maybe i have to be careful on my gain... Passive

Using a Alpine H600 Processor as well...


----------



## Oliver

mkygod said:


> Just got a new pair of these installed and now i am experiencing the harshness of the tweeters. I got the crossovers set at 0db for the tweets and the tweets are mounted on the upper part of the doors.


Sell or ditch those tweets  The midbass from the 6.5's is very good , the tweeters are very not good.


----------



## AAAAAAA

I must be lucky, no harshness at all (and they are on the dash!), I am really enjoying this tweet, one of the smoothest I have heard. And I have been one to be plagued by constant harsh tweets, ever changing tweets in hopes of finding one that isn't. Maybe it's all in the location


----------



## WuNgUn

deff808 said:


> Anyone noticing at high volumes, it breaks out?
> 
> Maybe i have to be careful on my gain... Passive
> 
> Using a Alpine H600 Processor as well...


What are your x-overs at?


----------



## WuNgUn

AAAAAAA said:


> I must be lucky, no harshness at all (and they are on the dash!), I am really enjoying this tweet, one of the smoothest I have heard. And I have been one to be plagued by constant harsh tweets, ever changing tweets in hopes of finding one that isn't. Maybe it's all in the location


Are you active or passive?


----------



## AAAAAAA

^ Active!


----------



## WuNgUn

So what's the final consensus for active cross over points here?

I have my mids bandpassed at 80Hz to 4700Hz at 12dB, and my highs at 4700Hz, also at 12dB...
At loud listening levels, the highs can be a little harsh. I was thinking cutting them down 2 or 3 dB or spreading out the crossover a bit...
Maybe 4500Hz at 6dB for the mids...
4700Hz at 18dB for the highs...


----------



## capnxtreme

Final consensus = you. But as a suggestion, 4.7k seems pretty darn high.


----------



## WuNgUn

capnxtreme said:


> Final consensus = you. But as a suggestion, 4.7k seems pretty darn high.


High for which? Tweets? Drivers? Both?
Doesn't sound bad. I think even better with the 18dB slope on the hi-pass.


----------



## AAAAAAA

Seems high to me to. I have them at 2.5k @ 12db.


----------



## kappa546

WuNgUn said:


> So what's the final consensus for active cross over points here?
> 
> I have my mids bandpassed at 80Hz to 4700Hz at 12dB, and my highs at 4700Hz, also at 12dB...
> At loud listening levels, the highs can be a little harsh. I was thinking cutting them down 2 or 3 dB or spreading out the crossover a bit...
> Maybe 4500Hz at 6dB for the mids...
> 4700Hz at 18dB for the highs...


That's not an adequate LP for the mids considering the high Q breakup at precisely that point, that's the harshness you are hearing. I'd keep the mids LP'd at 3khz with a higher order slope and bring the tweeters in at 4khz.


----------



## WuNgUn

kappa546 said:


> That's not an adequate LP for the mids considering the high Q breakup at precisely that point, that's the harshness you are hearing. I'd keep the mids LP'd at 3khz with a higher order slope and bring the tweeters in at 4khz.


Will try that...18dB slope for both.

You think it's alright to let full low-end into the mids (under 100Hz)? Or should I cut them off at 80 or 100Hz on the bottom?


----------



## kappa546

I would say that depends on your tuning abilities and your normal listening levels. I would definitely HP them though, it will allow your drivers to play much more dynamically in comparison and cleans up the midrange imo. that's partly why i like 80-100hz xover points for 2way midbass, but for some it can get tricky to blend with the sub.

BTW, i have the same mids but i'll be running them with the ring radiators in the PRO set.


----------



## dyno

Like AAAAAA I use 2.5k/12db for the mids. I've got a bit of hump between 3k and 5k so that helps alleviate the harshness at higher volumes. Every car is a bit different but 2.5 to 3k will make the set sound smoother from my experimentation.


----------



## WuNgUn

I feel like I'm still not getting to the bottom on this...lol

Okay, cut the top of the mids off at 2500Hz/12dB...
Maybe 3800 or 4000Hz for the tweeters, but that leaves 'hole' in the middle, doesn't it, depending on the slope?


----------



## AAAAAAA

I have set mine "symetrical" as in both mid and tweet at 2.5k 12db. Sounds good to me. I haven't done any tuning yet really though.


----------



## kappa546

WuNgUn said:


> I feel like I'm still not getting to the bottom on this...lol
> 
> Okay, cut the top of the mids off at 2500Hz/12dB...
> Maybe 3800 or 4000Hz for the tweeters, but that leaves 'hole' in the middle, doesn't it, depending on the slope?


just in electrical terms but that seldom correlates precisely with the actual acoustics... especially in a car. all I can tell you is try different points and different slopes without looking at your display and then choose what sounds most balanced. I never let the values decide the final settings.


----------



## hibuhibu

kappa546 said:


> just in electrical terms but that seldom correlates precisely with the actual acoustics... especially in a car. all I can tell you is try different points and different slopes without looking at your display and then choose what sounds most balanced. I never let the values decide the final settings.


+1!
I have mine set up at 60htz, 2.25khts, 2.25khts
You will have to mess around with the slopes to find the best setting. Don't let eleronic term fool you. Let your ears decide.
PRS can definitely play down to 60hts no problem.


----------



## WuNgUn

Ran some more tests...here is what I'm liking right now...
70-2500Hz for the drivers, both ends at 18dB
Highs set at 4000Hz and cut with 24dB

Sounds very smooth and not at all fatiguing...
A LITTLE bright at the very top. Could probably use a -2dB cut on the levels.

What's really nice with running a car PC setup like mine, is I'm able to configure a whole WACK load of setups at my desktop for AudioMulch, each of them slightly different, save them to a thumb drive, take it to the car and copy them over, and audition each one, one at a time, without having to get out of the car and adjust something...
I can stay right in my seat, and run 'em off with barely 2 or 3 second pause in between setups.
Certainly makes it easier to hear the differences this way!


----------



## z_accoustics

My dumb friend hooked his ipod up to my system and I, unfortunately, cranked it up. Now, when I play a freq sweep at 62 VOL level the right midbass (720) makes a flapping noise. If I turn the volume to 60 there is no flap. Did I blow the right speaker and how can I get it repaired/reconed?

thanks a lot guys.


----------



## z_accoustics

My dumb friend hooked his ipod up to my system and I, unfortunately, cranked it up. Now, when I play a freq sweep at 62 VOL level the right midbass (720) makes a flapping noise. If I turn the volume to 60 there is no flap. Did I blow the right speaker and how can I get it repaired/reconed?

thanks a lot guys.


----------



## WuNgUn

How's this look (Crossovers)?










I'm not using the mid-high crossover, as I'm just 2-way with a sub...


----------



## winXPHE

kw the current street price?


----------



## WuNgUn

Current crossover I'm enjoying very much with these now is;

90Hz/12dB Butterworth on the bottom
2500Hz/24dB Butterworth for the driver ceiling and

4250Hz/24dB Linkwitz/Reiley with a 2.5dB overall cut on the tweets

Not harsh in the least, but with further experimentation, I've gone as low at
60Hz with the drivers, without any problems.
I might cap it off at 70Hz just for protection/longevity, as the sub handles that rage quite well...

Also, depending on the music, and quality of the studio work, I've cut the tweets as far as 4.5 or 5dB, which helps
with overly-bright high-ends...


----------



## Blu

fej said:


> I have my set at 63hz 24db to 2.5k 18db with 164w per channel on them and they work great in kicks. Very respectable midbass with my w7 8" at 63hz 24db as well on 750w.


Hello!

Can you please share any details you have on how you set up your kicks using these speakers? Looking for approximate airspace given, sealed or open back, etc.

Photo's are always great as well!

Thanks in advance!


----------



## buickgs231

sweet


----------



## sblazer

would these comps be good wit say a 4'' driver? ran active as a 3way setup so to say


----------



## trubluryder

Sorry to bring the thread back from the dead...

But my question is, how do these compare to Diamond Audio's Hex s600s? Please be detailed as this will help me in deciding to upgrade or not. Thanks


----------



## Jroo

I have the same question as trubluryder. Has anyone compared the pioneer to the diamonds? The shop locally that sells both sets, the owner says the diamonds sound better hands down. He doesnt even keep the premiers on display because he said after people listen to the two, 99% of the people ask him to install the diamond sets. He said the only real selling point of the pioneer is the lower price point and he thinks his lower end diamonds sound better. Anyone have imput or have both sets for review?


----------



## WuNgUn

Jroo said:


> I have the same question as trubluryder. Has anyone compared the pioneer to the diamonds? The shop locally that sells both sets, the owner says the diamonds sound better hands down. He doesnt even keep the premiers on display because he said after people listen to the two, 99% of the people ask him to install the diamond sets. He said the only real selling point of the pioneer is the lower price point and he thinks his lower end diamonds sound better. Anyone have imput or have both sets for review?


I think if there is any down side to the PRS's, it's the crossover...
As components thru a proper active setup, and with some break-in hrs, they are a really nice sounding set...
The driver/mid-bass is spectacular!
I'm very happy with these...


----------



## placenta

i ordered my 3rd set of these last week. they arrive tomorrow.

they were gonna go in my 2008 xterra. but i bought a 2009 xterra tonight and wont be using them. ill have to research the going rate, they will be new in box sealed.


----------



## Jtejedor

I just got a set of these and from all I read here will be going active. Will be bridging the mids off of a exs q60.4 so they will be getting around 180 watts, the tweeters I am going to run off of a US acoustics 2050 so they will be getting aroung 50 watts. I hope this will be a decent amount of power to run with them. I am replacing my ID chameleons that are a nice set but just lack midbass. Running the Magv4 really showed me how little midbass I had so I hope these will help in that department.


----------



## trubluryder

Jtejedor said:


> I just got a set of these and from all I read here will be going active. Will be bridging the mids off of a exs q60.4 so they will be getting around 180 watts, the tweeters I am going to run off of a US acoustics 2050 so they will be getting aroung 50 watts. I hope this will be a decent amount of power to run with them. I am replacing my ID chameleons that are a nice set but just lack midbass. Running the Magv4 really showed me how little midbass I had so I hope these will help in that department.


please update us on how it goes. Thanks


----------



## Focalaudio

Has anyone tried the 5.25 version yet? I'm curious to know if they sound decent as well.

Thanks,
Jayson


----------



## faiz23

looks very nice


----------



## maloy

can u buy the tweeters seperately on this?


----------



## mvw2

Probably not cheaply (buying from Pioneer). However, many folks do end up selling the tweeters separately, so look in the for sale section.


----------



## el_chupo_

maloy said:


> can u buy the tweeters seperately on this?


if you are still looking for a set shoot me a PM. I have the tweets...


----------



## thp

I just ordered this set. Wish me luck on my install! I really hope it's just everyone being really critical about the passive xover being bad, I don't have the experience or amps to run them active!


----------



## todj

Those mids are monsters!


----------



## dyno

thp said:


> I just ordered this set. Wish me luck on my install! I really hope it's just everyone being really critical about the passive xover being bad, I don't have the experience or amps to run them active!


Alittle reading you'll understand active enough. It's not hard. And it will do justice to this set. The mids are pretty power hungry in relation to the tweeters so the ability to dial in levels along with Xover settings makes all the difference.


----------



## WuNgUn

This is true...my tweets are set at -6.3dB on my active setup...quite a cut!
Both mids and tweets powered from the same amp BTW.


----------



## mvw2

Are your amp gains set equal on output? My cut is half that, so I'm curious. All my amp gains are set equal so I can directly correlate relative sensitivity.


----------



## WuNgUn

mvw2 said:


> Are your amp gains set equal on output? My cut is half that, so I'm curious. All my amp gains are set equal so I can directly correlate relative sensitivity.


All my amp gains are all the way off...
I making the dB cut on my computers VST crossover plugin, so it MAY not be an exact corralation to what I'm hearing...

My tweets (and drivers) are mounted in the doors at about knee level as well.


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## cdiddy4224

Geez...im really up in the air between these and the alpine spx pro's. These seem to be had cheaper and their midbass is better but the Alpine's tweeter is better. If im looking for loud and clean(i had focals before this and liked them but the tweeter i found kind of harsh at times) powered by a pdx-4.150 which would better suited?


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## chevbowtie22

From all the reading that I have done on here it seems you might be better off going with the Alpines out of those two choices since your concerned with not having a harsh tweeter. So far I haven't read anything on here or other sources leading me to believe that they are bright at all. In fact that is one the most influental (sp) reasons that I chose the spx pros myself.


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## mvw2

None of the tweeters are harsh.


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## sotelomichael

sweet review


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## placenta

VERY sweet review indeed.


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## WuNgUn

If you guys want a song that really plays well on this set, and shows just how good the drivers really are, play Nine Inch Nails 'Sin' from the Pretty Hate Machine CD...and play it loud!
Man, I almost pissed myself the first time I cued it up!!!
Simply amazing...


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## coffee_junkee

Thanks for the compliments! It has been quite a bit of time since I wrote this review and these speakers sure have stood the test of time! The original set from this test have long since been sold, but the set in my other car are rocking strong after two years of play.

The passives have warmed on me somewhat. Not sure if my ears have just gotten used to them or they really are alright.

Great speakers! If I can't find a nice set of OG PRS tweeters and woofers for my new build, I might have to buy another set! These have been out since '06, they are getting to be nee old school and therefore alright!!!


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## PsychoZX

I just had one of my tweeters on my diamond hex set go out on me. I think I might pick up a set of these to replace em. My main problem with the HEX's was that the midbass sucked and the the tweeter was to overpowering and harsh. Judging by the reviews this comp set should suit my tastes well.


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## cheebs

hi im the new guy. i was looking at the review of these and now that they have gone down below 250$ what do people think of them now? is there anything to compare to in that price range? if they were great at 500$ then at 250$.


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## AAAAAAA

The review, originally, was for them costing around 200$ "street price". Street price has since gone up to 250$. Opinions remane the same.


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## DonovanM

I bought a set of these mids secondhand, and have been listening to them today and yesterday. First impressions are good, very balanced, just like my Seas G18RNX. 

I love how efficient they are with the size, it'll help tremendously when I'm trying to get my door panel over these. There's only enough mounting ring to create a seal, and only the 4 prongs coming out for mounting.

The grills are nice too - although they're rattling for me now. I didn't really fasten them very well


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## [email protected]

DonovanM said:


> I bought a set of these mids secondhand, and have been listening to them today and yesterday. First impressions are good, very balanced, just like my Seas G18RNX.
> 
> I love how efficient they are with the size, it'll help tremendously when I'm trying to get my door panel over these. There's only enough mounting ring to create a seal, and only the 4 prongs coming out for mounting.
> 
> The grills are nice too - although they're rattling for me now. I didn't really fasten them very well


What do you think about your midbass output compared to your seas?


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## cheebs

AAAAAAA said:


> The review, originally, was for them costing around 200$ "street price". Street price has since gone up to 250$. Opinions remane the same.


sorry i guess reading is fundamental may bad.


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## DonovanM

BeatsDownLow said:


> What do you think about your midbass output compared to your seas?


That's a bit too open ended for me to be able to answer concretely without just providing some basically worthless opinion based more on the circumstances and context of my listening rather than the individual drivers being compared.

I haven't A/Bed them, so I can't say for sure. I can say it's comparable though, and I haven't been let down by the PRS's yet


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## BlackFx4InTn

I bought a set of these and should be receiveing them in the next couple of days. On the crossover, you have the option to connect the tweets for +3db ,0, -3db. Which of these is ideal and what do the different settings do? Tone down the harshness? Reduce power from the tweets and distribute more to the woofers? Also, I saw someone post that they went active vs. using the passive xover that comes with these. He said he had active xover with his mids and tweets coming off the same amp. How does that work? Does he have resistors and compacitors running off the speaker wire going to his speakers?


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## [email protected]

BlackFx4InTn said:


> I bought a set of these and should be receiveing them in the next couple of days. On the crossover, you have the option to connect the tweets for +3db ,0, -3db. Which of these is ideal and what do the different settings do? Tone down the harshness? Reduce power from the tweets and distribute more to the woofers? Also, I saw someone post that they went active vs. using the passive xover that comes with these. He said he had active xover with his mids and tweets coming off the same amp. How does that work? Does he have resistors and compacitors running off the speaker wire going to his speakers?


active is having their own channels of power going to each speaker. He must have had a 4-ch or using 2 2-ch's. putting caps and stuff is the same as passive and would pretty much defeat the purpose of the passives that come with the set.


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## BlackFx4InTn

BeatsDownLow said:


> active is having their own channels of power going to each speaker. He must have had a 4-ch or using 2 2-ch's. putting caps and stuff is the same as passive and would pretty much defeat the purpose of the passives that come with the set.


Oh hell, I wasn't thinking 4 ch because I was zoned in on my 2 channel amp. Makes sense, and I should have known. Thanks


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## digitalgarden01

hwlof dsaf


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## mvw2

The tweeter setting is partially a matter of personal preference and partially the location you put them.


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## JJDH

i will be using a 300/4 t0 run the prs. think it is enough?


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## JJDH

bump. is 75 watts per mid enough??????????


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## BlackFx4InTn

JJDH said:


> bump. is 75 watts per mid enough??????????


I'm using the JL G2250 125x2 on mine and they sound lovely. That's the power going to the crossover itself, not just the mids.


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## Oliver

JJDH said:


> bump. is 75 watts per mid enough??????????


If your alternator and battery can supply enough juice [ around 13 volts ]it will sound as good as the JL can make it sound


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## JJDH

a$$hole said:


> If your alternator and battery can supply enough juice [ around 13 volts ]it will sound as good as the JL can make it sound


 the system is already in i have done all necessary ground and power upgrades, 500/1 on subs, currently 300/4 on doors, upgrading front doors to components. i have a 1800hc kinetic, i wasnt sure if the 75 watts was enogh on the mid itself. i will run these active with the 300/4


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## WuNgUn

I'm running mine active thru TRU T4.65's, and there is PLENTY of power to drive the mids, despite them being 'inefficient'...


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## primetimetsa

I'm going to be running these on an Xtant x604e either putting in 75w, or 300w bridged per side... anyone running this setup, or something similar? Curious too to see if 75w would sound good enough to avoid bridging


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## Myamisonfire

I got to get some of these!


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## kizz

How is the midbass "clarity"? Everyone says how much midbass they have but how is the clarity? Can u distinguish bass guitar well? Sorry to bring up an old thread


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## lucas569

its a very good speaker all around, only drawback that i can see is its not an spl monster. 

clarity is very good imo, i cross mine at 80hz... i dont find the tweeter as hot sounding as some others have said (maybe cause mine are in the kicks?) but its not as awesome as the mid is.... 

i bet some seas tweeters would mate up really well with the mids....


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## kizz

Seas are pretty pricey arent they? Im hoping to compete in sq in a year and a half. Any problem with mismatching equipment? Cant that anywhere in the rules


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## lucas569

there np wit using different brands at all...


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## kizz

Seas are pretty pricey arent they? Im hoping to compete in sq in a year and a half. Any problem with mismatching equipment? Cant find that anywhere in the rules


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## releasedtruth

All depends on what Seas tweets you're looking at. The Neos are very reasonably priced


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## havieri23

i have used the midbass for over 2 months, still have the tweeters and xover in packaging. and i'm loving it. tried the focalsk series, id oem v1, infinity kappas components & coxial, cdt hd (nice midbass)..but these have a sweet spot for me..love them.


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## Lanson

I wonder if these 720 woofers would sound great with the SB Acoustics dimple-dome.


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## havieri23

i have mines with the focal tn51.. the tn51 very harsh. just picked up polk sr6500..have a very hard time deciding to get rid of these mids or not


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## Lanson

havieri23 said:


> i have mines with the focal tn51.. the tn51 very harsh. just picked up polk sr6500..have a very hard time deciding to get rid of these mids or not


The SR6500 landed the best review marks I've ever seen in the history of component speaker reviews when they came out.


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## havieri23

fourthmeal said:


> The SR6500 landed the best review marks I've ever seen in the history of component speaker reviews when they came out.


do you know if the sr6500 tweeter is basically an vifa xt25? been reading everywhere they are similar, but no definite yes. i wanted to get a second pair of the tweeters and the xt25 in my price range.
the only thing i'm hesitant about installing them, is i heard they lack alittle in midbass...the prs are doing a great job in the that department for me. I guess i bought them, might as well use them.


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## namboy27

ok im thinking about getting these. 

im running passive for sure cause i dont have the knowlege yet to go active.

i listened to these in the store and the midbass seemed to slightly be louder than the tweet. the crossover setting was at 0 db. will it make the tweet more harsh at +3db?

the settings were flat too. does that make a difference? 

sorry for the noob questions. thanks for everyones help

for those who have them running passive do you guys like em?

also if i have an amp 125x4 does that mean i can run active? i have an alpine mrv f545


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## Salami

Thinking about picking up a set of the 720's. I read most of the first part of this thread and it seems like they may be what I am looking for.

Anyone by any chance have an opinion on how they would compare to the old a/d/s 336is? I love the speakers but feel they are lacking in the lower regions making it a bit hard for me to blend the sub in the way I like. Thinking the 720 will help but not sure about the high end. I have always like the "laid back" sound from my 320is and 336is.


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## Wesayso

Dragging an old thread up for some info...

Lots of comments in this thread about those big magnet baskets. Even some good info about the posibillity to remove the plastic end cap but no info about the diameter of those baskets... 

Does anyone have a set on the shelf and be willing to measure the diameter of that magnet basket? It has been asked but not answered in this thread (or did I mis it reading trough this thread 2 times)

I'd like to mount the woofers in my doors but have a window motor hanging on one side restricting the magnet diameter I can fit.
I have this woofers little sister in there now (TS-E170Ci = TS-D720C) with lots of room to spare. I like what I have now but I'll always wonder about the PRS set if I don't try them


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## th3disturbed1

Since mine are in my car, I cant measure them but im pretty sure its 5.5" for the mounting diameter and _slightly_ smaller for the magnet. Can anybody chime in on this?


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## Wesayso

th3disturbed1 said:


> Since mine are in my car, I cant measure them but im pretty sure its 5.5" for the mounting diameter and *slightly* smaller for the magnet. Can anybody chime in on this?


That's what I'm afraid off . The magnet looks massive! The new PRS line is much smaller but way more expensive. I can still buy the old PRS woofer new for reasonable money but they might not fit.


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## Mazda6

I've been hunting around for a set however, they seem to be discontinued... 

Could anyone please recommend to me something similar in price and SQ?

Thanks,
Cameron.


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## placenta

Mazda6 said:


> I've been hunting around for a set however, they seem to be discontinued...
> 
> Could anyone please recommend to me something similar in price and SQ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Cameron.


i still have fond memories of this set as the best speakers i ever owned. i had 3 sets.

today? just found one on ebay for $370 new. Would i buy it for that price? yes, if i was doing a project i would... theyre worth it.


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## 700whpfocus

wher can i get the pioneer ts-c 720prs? can u still get these speakers?


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