# Please post your MS-8 System Layout!



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

I am looking at implementing the MS-8 and currently have a 3-way front stage with 1 sub running off a P9 combo. I am trying to read through all the Threads to find out the most successful way to implement the MS-8. I think this would be much easier if it was a MS-16 or so, but since it is only 8, we are all going to have to choose the best way to utilize the functionality and get the most out of the MS-8. I know passives would help, just not willing to go there quite yet (hard to do time alignment with passives). 

With all the different possibilities with the MS-8 in regards to system layout, I would like to find out which layout would be centered most around sq and have a Thread where people can post how they plan on running their system with the MS-8. 

Thanks for the input!


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## stills (Apr 13, 2008)

my cousin has a ms-16...
it's baller...


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

???

3-way front stage + 1 sub = 7 channels.

Are there other speakers you're not telling us about?


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

MarkZ said:


> ???
> 
> 3-way front stage + 1 sub = 7 channels.
> 
> Are there other speakers you're not telling us about?


Nope, just 7 channels at the moment. But I want to utilize the MS-8, so I am looking to add a center channel (what size would be optimum) and/or rear speakers, which would add up to more than 8. So, is it better to do a 3-way up front active with sub and a center channel (either a single speaker or passive and add a tweeter) or drop the front stage to a 2-way and add center and rear speakers? 

I am trying to achieve the best sq setup and would like to have it set for 2 seat listening.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

If you only add a center channel, that will bring you up to 8 channels, and you're all set. If you also add rears, then put your upper midrange and tweeter on one set of channels.


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

My first configuration with the MS-8 was 4 way active with Logic7 off, just like what you have Jerry.
Now I've added a center channel (HAT Imagine 6.5" in coaxial mode) and have it powered directly from the MS-8 with the Logic7 on.
Should be able to get some rear fill going in a week or two and in order to do that, I'll put a passive crossover between the front mid/tweet since I have them in the same location.
To me, that's the configuration that would really squeeze the maximum potential out of the MS-8.
Center channel and rears are needed for the Logic7 to work it's magic (so that's at least 3 channels gone), so you either use a 2 way frontstage or use passives.
Another thing to consider is that you dont really need the frontstage to play that low (80 hz is enough) and that putting the left and right channels as far to the outsides as possible is more important for Logic7 than better PLD's.
I'll let you know how the use of rear fill does.

J.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

BTW, you don't need to use passives to join the mid and tweet. You can use the active crossover in the amplifier. That would still allow you to retain independent level control.


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> BTW, you don't need to use passives to join the mid and tweet. You can use the active crossover in the amplifier. That would still allow you to retain independent level control.


True.
Another option is to use amps with a good integrated x-over.
The soon to be released JBL MS amps are a match made in Harman heaven for a full blown active system.
Zapco DC Ref, Kenwood and some others could do the trick also.

J.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

doitor said:


> True.
> Another option is to use amps with a good integrated x-over.
> The soon to be released JBL MS amps are a match made in Harman heaven for a full blown active system.
> Zapco DC Ref, Kenwood and some others could do the trick also.
> ...


The MS amps are already available at Crutchfield.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Here is a rough layout of where i'm heading
for the center channel and rear-fill, my amp of choice would most definitely be an arc ks125.4 [if i can score one used] or xxd4080. available space is pretty much dictating what i can use.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

rain27 said:


> The MS amps are already available at Crutchfield.


Ouch, $549 a piece? Too rich for my blood.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Here is my plan; 3-way fronts (passive between mid and tweet), 3-way center (active at amp between MB and mid/tweet, passive between mid and tweet), two way rear (passive), and of course a couple subs:


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Highs: Aura Whisper, 800 Hz, 4th order, powered by elfAudio 2125X
Midbasses: JBL 116H-1, 80-800Hz, xover slopes TBD, powered by bridged Kenwood XR-4S
Sub: Clearwater footwell sub, 35-80Hz, powered by bridged Planet Audio BB175.4B.
Rear: TBD
Center: TBD, if possible


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## MaXius (Dec 18, 2009)

Austin said:


> Ouch, $549 a piece? Too rich for my blood.


They're definitely amps you'd wanna hide too.. bit on the fugly side..


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Why not use 2 x MS-8s? 
*First MS-8 (6 channels used) 2xTweets, 2xMids, 2xMBass 
Meaning you have separate EQ and T/A per channel - and you still have 2 channels left for something else. Can even go 4way front for fun 
*Second MS-8:
2 channels to 1st MS-8 
2 channels to the sides 
2 channels to the rears 
1 channel to center 
1 channel to the sub 

I know it's quite a budget to get another MS-8 but if you can order from Amazon, it can save you quite a bit. 

Kelvin


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## Knobby Digital (Aug 17, 2008)

subwoofery said:


> *Second MS-8:
> 2 channels to 1st MS-8


I've got a feeling this won't work too well.




stills said:


> my cousin has a ms-16...
> it's baller...


 I had a buddy w/ a MS-20, but he sold it in a time of need. I miss that thing.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

subwoofery said:


> Why not use 2 x MS-8s?
> *First MS-8 (6 channels used) 2xTweets, 2xMids, 2xMBass
> Meaning you have separate EQ and T/A per channel - and you still have 2 channels left for something else. Can even go 4way front for fun
> *Second MS-8:
> ...


Two MS-8's in series would not works because of the processing latency, there is like 8ms IIRC. This is why you can't bypass the MS-8 and run an independently processed sub.

Splitting source outputs and running a pair of ms-8 in parallel might work but I don't know for sure. Output channel assignments might be too restrictive or differences in processing steering based on possible channel assignment might make the sound that comes out incompatible with the other MS-8.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

stills said:


> my cousin has a ms-16...
> it's baller...





Knobby Digital said:


> I had a buddy w/ a MS-20, but he sold it in a time of need. I miss that thing.


Are you two being serious?


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Austin said:


> Are you two being serious?


Shame on you for having to ask...I expected more out of you


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## Knobby Digital (Aug 17, 2008)

I'm talking about one of these:


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## AdamS (Dec 22, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> Why not use 2 x MS-8s?
> *First MS-8 (6 channels used) 2xTweets, 2xMids, 2xMBass
> Meaning you have separate EQ and T/A per channel - and you still have 2 channels left for something else. Can even go 4way front for fun
> *Second MS-8:
> ...


You can theoretically run them in parallel.

Here's what you need to do:

1. Find the speaker with the longest pathlength. It's probably a rear speaker. Run Setup with MS-8 #1 with these rears. Next connect them to MS-8 #2 (as well as the other speakers with MS-8 #2). This now ensures that your TA between the two MS-8's is correct.

2. You'll need to have Fronts defined for both MS-8's. It's a restriction in the Setup right now.

3. Unplug one of the displays, and change the master volume on one of the MS-8's to match the other. Tune this by ear or RTA so that all of the speakers are level matched.

4. Logic7. I don't know how well this will work. The MS-8's don't share a clock, but will get turned on with the same Remote signal. The timing should be very close, but we haven't measured this.

5. Volume changes. Plug the display back in once it is level matched. One remote control will change the volume on both. But here's the problem. Every now and then one of the display may get the command, but not the other. Then they'll get out of sync, and you'll need to pull out the display again to re-sync them.

If someone actually tries this, let us know how it goes.

I think the preference for now is to use external crossovers if you need more than 8 channels.


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## NSTar (Feb 24, 2010)

trevordj said:


> Here is my plan; 3-way fronts (passive between mid and tweet), 3-way center (active at amp between MB and mid/tweet, passive between mid and tweet), two way rear (passive), and of course a couple subs:


How did that turn out?

It almost seems like the MS8 is only there for time alignment and nothing else.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

NSTar said:


> How did that turn out?
> 
> It almost seems like the MS8 is only there for time alignment and nothing else.


Almost, except for the one of a kind advanced auto EQ and multi channel Logic7 option.


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## NSTar (Feb 24, 2010)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Almost, except for the one of a kind advanced auto EQ and multi channel Logic7 option.


Well, for some reason, I think it's optimum work is done when components are involved. When we want to put a 3 way under one channel, I'm not sure if it's still doing the auto EQ optimally... it'l still do it.

Then, when you want daisy chain multiple MS8, I'm not sure if Logic7 is still doing what it's suppose to do. I mean, it'll still do logic7, but does it distribute the signal the same way to each output line? I'm thinking MS8 treats 3 way differently than having a single fronts, rears, sides, and center. 

Only the designer knows how the DSP process the data based on what channels are used.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

NSTar said:


> How did that turn out?
> 
> It almost seems like the MS8 is only there for time alignment and nothing else.


It sounds f&#*ing amazing if I do say so myself. 



t3sn4f2 said:


> Almost, except for the one of a kind advanced auto EQ and multi channel Logic7 option.


^this. TA is but a part of the magic the MS-8 works. On top of what t3sn4f2 mentioned, the way the MS-8 manages tone control after tuning is fantastic (boosting the bass = a boost in the midbass and sub maintaining the sub/midbass crossover frequency maintaining up front bass when you feel the need for a little extra kick). 

This was outlined by Andy W. using this diagram: 










as discussed in this post. It works very well.


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## redsun (Sep 2, 2010)

Factory HU
Ms-8
rub5.800
eclipse 8563
jbl gto528
cheap ass eclipse 5x7s for rear fil
jl 8w3

does work, son


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

NSTar said:


> Well, for some reason, I think it's optimum work is done when components are involved. When we want to put a 3 way under one channel, I'm not sure if it's still doing the auto EQ optimally... it'l still do it.


That's not true. Just for clarification (since you were referring to my setup), I'm not running a three way off one channel, I am running it quasi-active off two MS-8 channels (except the center which is quasi-active using the built in amplifier crossover off one channel of the MS-8). There are many reasons why this works for my particular setup but most importantly: 1) My mid and tweet are mounted within one wavelength of one another in the pillars. 2) T/A is not very helpful for tweeters in a 3 way setup. Further, as Andy has mentioned many times, many people (as a consequence of tuning manually) tend to stress over crossover frequencies because they often use crossovers as a means of equalization. This is not as big of an issue when running the MS-8 because it can boost/cut as necessary to, in effect, alter the apparent crossover frequency based on it's measurements. For me, this meant choosing a passive crossover between mids and tweets where the response was fairly flat and letting the MS-8 do the rest.

Edit: For the center channel, it works in my particular setup because of the same reasons listed above with the addition the my center midbass and the mid/tweet combo are equidistant to any listener in the car. I can therefore get away with not having an TA between those three drivers.


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## redsun (Sep 2, 2010)

trevordj said:


> That's not true. Just for clarification (since you were referring to my setup), I'm not running a three way off one channel, I am running it quasi-active off two MS-8 channels (except the center which is quasi-active using the built in amplifier crossover off one channel of the MS-8). There are many reasons why this works for my particular setup but most importantly: 1) My mid and tweet are mounted within one wavelength of one another in the pillars. 2) T/A is not very helpful for tweeters in a 3 way setup. Further, as Andy has mentioned many times, many people (as a consequence of tuning manually) tend to stress over crossover frequencies because they often use crossovers as a means of equalization. This is not as big of an issue when running the MS-8 because it can boost/cut as necessary to, in effect, alter the apparent crossover frequency based on it's measurements. For me, this meant choosing a passive crossover between mids and tweets where the response was fairly flat and letting the MS-8 do the rest.



"I came down on that thing" Charlie Murphy


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

My overly artistic super fancy diagram:









Just shows one side of speakers since the other side is the same. And I knew I couldn't draw them the same size in paint.


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## TxnBluDvl (Nov 29, 2009)

AdamS said:


> You can theoretically run them in parallel.
> 
> Here's what you need to do:
> 
> ...


Holy...that's some serious MS-8 kung fu. I've got two but I'm not quite skilled enough to even try that.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Back from the dead...here's my layout. My question is regarding the balance algorithms for Logic7 and how it applies to components. Is my assumption true that:

MS-8 time corrects each _channel _(all up)
MS-8 _can't_ time correct frequency bands within a channel (say between a tweeter/mid with passive x-over)

What I am getting at is that if I use a passive xover for the L&R tweet/mid combos, they will need to be mounted together, on the same axis or everything gets screwy on time alignment, right? 

The only way to get away with mids in door pods and tweets in the pillars would be to assign a channel per. Meaning 3-way active for the front stage is the only way to separate the drivers and get proper imaging.


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## AL_G300C (Sep 26, 2009)

MS-8 Ch selected on my 300 srt8 and system chosen 

1left ,2 right ch front passive mid Morel CDM 88 Elate/hi Morel Supremo Piccolos

3left ,4 right midbass Morel Elate 6"

5left,6 right 2way components 6x9 Massive speakers & tweeters on back deck corners 

7 Sud 2-12 JL 

8 Split to Amp (Y'ed) front rear on passive Morel 3" CDM54 with Focal TN-52 tweeters

2 JL 600/4 amps running 1thru 6 and 8

1 PPI old School running ch 7 to 2 JL 12s 

HU Pioneer AVIC-Z130 BT

Xover- Morel for front

CDT xover for Centers

Massave Xover for rear


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## AL_G300C (Sep 26, 2009)

i am doing 2 way fronts Morel 6" in doors and passive xover running the 3 1/2 midrange and Piccolos tweeters in dash any one do this ?

i ask because im not sure whats the best Xover points for this set up between the 6" mid-bass and the 3 1/2 midrange and tweeters on the passave xover. 

500?


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## guisar (Nov 20, 2007)

How did you mount the center channel? I've got a legacy and am wondering where to stick the thing- in the dash firing up the windscreen or some other creative location?


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

My set has the following:

Pioneer AVIC Z120BT
Morel Picollo / CDM88 / Supremo Sw6 / Morel Maximo 5 1/4 as Ctr 
Hertz HCX 570 rears 
Ultimo 12 4ohm sub.

JL HD 600/4 x2 = 1 for Midrange / tweets + 1 bridged to sw6
JL HD 1200 x 1 = Sub duty

Cache CEX elect xover to create single channel for mids tweets.

Sub= 80hz / 24db slope
Midbass= 80hz / 24db slope
Midrange = 800 to 5000 24/FB slope
Tweeter = 5000 and up...
Rears = 100hz / 24db slope

This is where Ive currently settled on a tune but Ive tried numerous others over the past year as well. Hope this helps


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## Hertzaholic (Dec 31, 2011)

Channel 1&2 - Front Mids
Channel 3&4 - Front Tweets
Channel 5&6 - Rears
Channel 7 - Center
Channel 8 - Sub

This might be a stupid question, but I'll ask it anyways. I'm running 2 sets of components up front with a mid in the kick panel and the other in the door. I laser aligned them both but the mid in the door is roughly 8 inches closer to my ear than the other. Is there anyway to time align the mid in the door to equal the kick panel mid? Something similar to an in-line bass blocker but for time correction? I doubt there is....hell, I should just invent it myself! Haha


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

Hertzaholic said:


> Channel 1&2 - Front Mids
> Channel 3&4 - Front Tweets
> Channel 5&6 - Rears
> Channel 7 - Center
> ...


Right before you run your sweeps, disconnect the tweets and other mids . Let the first set of Sweeps run from that eight you want to TA from. Reconnect everything then run the rest of the setup. 
This will set the TA to the distance from the kick pannel 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

I think I have mine sorted out. In a 2010 535i I'm using:

Source: Factory I-Drive
Processor: MS-8
Amps: JL HD600/4 and HD900/5
Front: Morel Hybrid Ovation II 4" components
Front Underseat: Jehnert XE 200's (8" midbass)
Center: Morel Integra Ovation 4"
Rear: Morel Tempo 4" Co-ax
Sub: JL 13tw5

Everything is in factory locations (except the JL Sub). I'll use the 600/4 to power the front doors and underseats, bridge a pair of channels on the 900/5 for the center, use the other pair of channels on the 900/5 for the rears, and the sub channel goes to the sub. That should give me 150 x 5 + 100 x 2 + 500 x 1.

Fingers crossed that this one is simple and works out well.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Hertzaholic said:


> Channel 1&2 - Front Mids
> Channel 3&4 - Front Tweets
> Channel 5&6 - Rears
> Channel 7 - Center
> ...


I've considered the same thing. There is, at least intuitively, a reasonable way to time align a set of drivers, even when running a 3-way passive system. 

If you know the crossover points and slopes of the passsive crossover, once this data is entered, the DSP could consume the full bandwidth pre-amp signal and then time delay the freqeuncies on silicon, respective to the driver in the question.

By slicing the frequency bands and delaying those frquencies accordingly, the DSP would then repackage the full bandwidth signal with the appropriate delays and push the corrected signlas out to the passive crossovers and speakers.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

When I ran my front midrange and tweeter off of the passives it was as simple as covering up or unplugging the tweeter and running the TA portion sweep. Once those were run you plug the tweeters back in for the EQ portion.


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

My set up

Channel 1 Front Left Hi HP 200 Hz @24db
Channel 2 Front Right Hi HP 200 Hz @24db
Channel 3 Front Left Low Bandpassed 100 Hz- 200 Hz @24db
Channel 4 Front right Low Bandpassed 100 Hz- 200 Hz @24db
Channel 5 Side left HP 300 Hz @24db
Channel 6 Side Right HP 300 Hz @24db
Channel 7 Center HP 200Hz
Channel 8 Sub LP 100 Subsonic @ 20Hz @ 24db


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## Hertzaholic (Dec 31, 2011)

quietfly said:


> Right before you run your sweeps, disconnect the tweets and other mids . Let the first set of Sweeps run from that eight you want to TA from. Reconnect everything then run the rest of the setup.
> This will set the TA to the distance from the kick pannel
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


Let me get this straight...For step 1 of 4 on the acoustic measurement, I should disconnect the door comps, run step 1 and then connect them again for the other 3? 

How does that set the TA for the door to be the same as the kick panel? I'm quite curious


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Hertzaholic said:


> Channel 1&2 - Front Mids
> Channel 3&4 - Front Tweets
> Channel 5&6 - Rears
> Channel 7 - Center
> ...


Is this actually two sets of components with 4 mids and 4 tweeters? Is anything running off of passives? Are the mids on each side running on the same channel?

Depending on how it's set up right now, you can throw passives between the mids and tweeters to free up a couple channels and put each mid on it's separate channel. The tweeters don't have to be time aligned so you will cover up the tweeters during the first sweep and uncover them for the rest.


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## Hertzaholic (Dec 31, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> Is this actually two sets of components with 4 mids and 4 tweeters? Is anything running off of passives? Are the mids on each side running on the same channel?
> 
> Depending on how it's set up right now, you can throw passives between the mids and tweeters to free up a couple channels and put each mid on it's separate channel. The tweeters don't have to be time aligned so you will cover up the tweeters during the first sweep and uncover them for the rest.


Yes, two sets of comps. No passives but could easily be installed. I have channel 1 on the MS-8 for front left mid and channel 2 for front right mid. I split the rca's to a 4 channel amp so each mid is being amped seperatly.

Channels 3 & 4 (tweets) and 5 & 6 (rears) go to another 4 channel amp. I have the 2 left tweeters connected to one channel on the amp, and other 2 right tweeters to another. The rears take up the last two channels on the amp

I have a tweeter in each kick panel and each A-pillar

I'm still not sure if I'll be installing a center speaker due to restricted space. I'm leaning towards not installing one.


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

Hertzaholic said:


> Let me get this straight...For step 1 of 4 on the acoustic measurement, I should disconnect the door comps, run step 1 and then connect them again for the other 3?
> 
> How does that set the TA for the door to be the same as the kick panel? I'm quite curious


the first step is where the TA is run so if you disconnect the other comps you don't want the TA from your TA will only cue from the kicks which is what you were asking, if i got your question right.


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