# Pros N Cons Of Using Stock Head Unit?



## BKJT05 (Apr 10, 2007)

Im hoping for some information or pros and cons of using a stock head-unit to run a system?

I have a 03 Ford Ranger Fx4 with a Scosche Mp3/CD player. Im going to be running either alpine type R or kicker RS series components up front, a JBL gto single 10" sub and power it all with a kicker zx700.5 channel amp. 

I would like to go aftermarket, but id like to keep the system stealth!!!! my hood lol tends to have way to many break-ins and i dont feel like replacing windows all the time. Even with a alarm, break-ins are too often! 

So how much of a difference is there between stock and aftermarket?


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## MadMaxSE-L (Oct 19, 2006)

Pro: stealth install

Con: sounds like ass, ugly IMHO

Seriously though, I would think no farther than you plan on going, keeping the stock H/U wouldn't be that bad. Maybe if you wanted to upgarde the sound and keep it stealth, get something like the Alpine 650 or RF 360.2 so you can have some processing power.

-Matt


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

It really depends on how much you want to do with your system. To me I finally gave up on using the stock unit just because it doesn't really cut it as far as a good transport.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I would kill to have a factory CD player...they are built to last for the life span of the car. And with the new toys like the Alpine piece and the upcomming JBL MS-8, you can do some serious stuff all off of a factory deck.

Plus new cars have XM and nav built into the fatory sources...and some sort of bus system tied to the deck too. Just getting harder and harder to justify the replacement of good factory decks.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

You never know about the SQ till you have it measured. The rest of the stuff is up to you to decide on.


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## MadMaxSE-L (Oct 19, 2006)

thehatedguy said:


> I would kill to have a factory CD player...


Not the one out of an 03 Ranger...


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

yeah. I wonder if the MS-8 will do what I want and cause me to stay stock.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

You also have to consider utilizing an OEM stereos with factory equalization? Some do and some dont, i think it depends


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> I would kill to have a factory CD player...they are built to last for the life span of the car. And with the new toys like the Alpine piece and the upcomming JBL MS-8, you can do some serious stuff all off of a factory deck.
> 
> Plus new cars have XM and nav built into the fatory sources...and some sort of bus system tied to the deck too. Just getting harder and harder to justify the replacement of good factory decks.


Just curious will a stock transport ever be as good as say a mcintosh even after its been sliced and diced with a MS-8?


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## BKJT05 (Apr 10, 2007)

i think i might just give the stock unit a try and see how it sounds, if i think a aftermarket headunit will really make it sound better, then ill get one. i just want to keep it stealth! otherwise alpine 9886 it is! 

keep the pro's and cons coming!!!


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Like was mentioned before, Im using my stocker because its a nav unit. The truck I traded in for this one was getting a pio 880 because the stock stereo SUCKED. The stock sirius radio gave NO INFO. just channel number. no artist or song info


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## Mike Hall (Jun 30, 2006)

The stock head units in the new SLT Sierra trucks sure are nice. The Navi unit is very nice and had knobs for adjusting the volume which is nice. Im thinking about getting a new Sierra with navi but Im researching IPod unlock kits to allow Ipod navigation via the head unit screen.

Mike


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## Gary S (Dec 11, 2007)

Aftermarket manufacturers put RCA pre-amp outs on their decks for a reason.


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## VW_Johan (Jan 31, 2008)

need to get registered on this forum, since this a choice I need to make very soon. 

Is there anybody here who can give *first hand info* on the actual differences in sound quality when comparing a Stock CD-player with advanced aftermarket processor (Alpine 650, RF 3sixty2 etc), with an aftermarket CD-player with built in eq, crossover time alignment (like Alpine 9887) mated to an amp with aftermarket speakers? How big is the difference (relative, I know, but please try to make comparions)?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

You may be ok if your factory deck has straight line outs. BUT, if all you have available is speaker level outs then you're in for a ride. They tweak the **** out of your frequency response to account for poor driver quality and placement.

Look at my earlier thread to see the measures I had to take to overcome this.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29680

BTW: Looks of any given piece of equipment are to the eye of the beholder. For example, I think damn near all aftermarket peices look ghetto compared to factory equipt.

Looks aside, aftermarket gear is much more flexible. However, the user interface (i.e. controls) are a pain in the ass to use in comparision to OEM units. Not to mention it confuses the **** out of my wife .

Ge0


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## scott_fx (Mar 31, 2006)

if you want stealth and great sq then i'd suggest hacking up the stock h/u and using it to control a car pc. best of both worlds and the sky is the limit.


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## VW_Johan (Jan 31, 2008)

thanks for your quick replies. Need to look into that frequency response thread. Forgot to say that the stock HU does *not* have RCA/low level out, only (full range) speaker out. Stock VW RCD300 headunit.

In previous cars I´ve done the big aftermarket systems, including advanced ODR multi-amp fully active setups, but now I want a simple, stealth, stock looking, well sounding simple system. Retaining the stock head with its steering wheel remote, multi-function sub-display out, speed sensing volume control and matching look would be a BIG plus, but I´m contemplating on the SQ. Would the difference be BIG? Both the Alpine 650 & RF processors have anti-EQ functions prior to the actual processor, and would remove some of the stock HU frequency response issues. Choices, choices....


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Who cares about RCA cables?

You can use the speaker level full range outputs to drive a balanced input...which is better than a low level RCA signal in the first place.


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

Sadly I don't know of much that has a balanced input though. If the JBL unit does then that is probably what I will invest in.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Who cares about RCA cables?
> 
> You can use the speaker level full range outputs to drive a balanced input...which is better than a low level RCA signal in the first place.


Many don't realize this, but, chances are the speaker level outputs coming off their head units
are already balanced. They just may need to be attenuated to be compatible with a balanced input of an amplifier.

Ge0


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

haibane said:


> Sadly I don't know of much that has a balanced input though. If the JBL unit does then that is probably what I will invest in.


Simply put, if the signal being amplified is clean then the amplified signal going to the MS-8 will be clean (just don't raise the volume to the point the the head unit clips the signal). Like the hated guy said, it could be better because a high level signal is "isolated from ground".

Amplifying a signal and noticeable significant sound degradation don't go hand in hand. Your preamp RCA outputs _are_ amplified by amplifiers. They're just amplifiers that are purpose built for the path and receiving end of the chain.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Bingo.

You can take a factory head unit, tap the speaker wires for a balanced connection to something like say...the Zapco Symbilink cables, then you can have balanced inputs to your Zapco amps...and get the DCs you can have balanced in and processing built in.

If I had a nice factory radio that didn't do too much crazy stuff to the signal, that would be how I would go.

If I had a nice factory deck that did muck up the signal, go to one of the aftermarket things like a Cleansweep or the JBL MS-8 when it comes out and then to amps.

Kirk Profit is using the factory deck in his TL, and by a lot of people's ears is one of the nicest sounding cars going to competitions today.



Ge0 said:


> Many don't realize this, but, chances are the speaker level outputs coming off their head units
> are already balanced. They just may need to be attenuated to be compatible with a balanced input of an amplifier.
> 
> Ge0


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## Vash (Aug 5, 2006)

I have a JL Cleansweep to the H701 for processing. The cleans sweep really does flatten out whatever eq is coming out the stock HU (i think made by Clarion). I checked this via the display on my RUX701 playing pink noise thru the cd player--- through the cleansweep. Sounds great IMHO and definately worrth the stealthness. Sometimes people are like wow this car comes with a really nice cd player lol! Car is 2007 Mazdaspeed 3.


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

What about those of us who aren't using zapco amps? On a side note, any idea when the JBL unit will be out?



thehatedguy said:


> Bingo.
> 
> You can take a factory head unit, tap the speaker wires for a balanced connection to something like say...the Zapco Symbilink cables, then you can have balanced inputs to your Zapco amps...and get the DCs you can have balanced in and processing built in.
> 
> ...


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

There are other amps that will take balanced as well besides Zapco, the ARC SEs and the older ZED ESX series come to mind immediately


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

JBL will be out this summer from what I've been told.

Various other options if not using Zapco amps- LOC, transformers, equipment that has high level inputs, the Cleansweep, Alpine, Audiocontrol has a couple things too.


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## GenPac (Oct 29, 2007)

Not sure... I didn't see it directly referenced in the previous posts...

What about the onboard HU amplifier chips... don't they add 5% THD?

Also, I know a guy that has successfully added RCA outputs from a factory deck at the pre-amp on a stock Tacoma panasonic HU.


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

yeah. I am still debating whether replacing the stock headunit is a good idea or not. I need processing one way or the other and in the bmw the inputs to the amp are balanced anyhow, but the older alpine amps I own don't accept that so I am thinking the JBL is the way to go possibly.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

What car is it?


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> What car is it?


mine?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Yeap


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> Yeap


01' BMW 325i e46, which I am guessing is the same car they have been using for the JBL MS-8 showcar.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Thank goodness... I'm not the only poor schlep that's wallowing in the idea of whether or not to stay OEM or go aftermarket.

On the subject of cleanliness of OEM speaker level outs... Mine is the 6-disc 2-din clarion OEM in the subaru forester XT... I can hear distortion from the head unit kick in with volume (only run completely flat either all 4 channels or fronts only)... Also I believe I know it's the head unit straining rather than the speakers, though I know they're also crap OEMs.

I'm wondering, the way these OEM processors work PXE or MS-8 to pull down the power-amp'd signal to some kind of line level voltage/impedence... By having a different or very large load on the speaker outs, would this in effect decrease the distortion level or improve the signal from the OEM?? 

In other words... 
Can I expect that signal feeding an OEM processor to be cleaner than it is when trying to feed speakers directly??


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Hey Babs, have you considered a line driver with you OEM setup?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Also keep in mind that all three of the better OEM processors H650, 3sixty.2, and the coming MS-8 if they EVER get the poor thing to market will have a single RCA aux input.....

So.... If you're fairly confident or your portable player's analog output signal/sound quality... There's alternative to your OEM, plus your whole cd collection at your fingertips.... 

Keyword "IF" there is a seriously good sound quality portable out there... Then loaded up with as much lossless tunes as you can feed it.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

azngotskills said:


> Hey Babs, have you considered a line driver with you OEM setup?


I'm sure I've thrown the idea around, but I know that clarion has OEM EQ'ing going on and I fear they also have some kind of silly time alignment business as well.. Andy at JBL states the MS-8 will handle that but don't know about the H650.

What'd you have in mind? Just a standard LOC of some kind or audio-control type of thing?


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## scott_fx (Mar 31, 2006)

thehatedguy said:


> Who cares about RCA cables?
> 
> You can use the speaker level full range outputs to drive a balanced input...which is better than a low level RCA signal in the first place.


maybe i have a gross misunderstanding of 'balanced' inputs but where are you getting a inverse (-) signal from? High level outputs on a h/u just have pos. signal and ground.

phase/butler tube amps as well as xtants are also amps to put on your list of balanced input amps


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

GenPac said:


> Not sure... I didn't see it directly referenced in the previous posts...
> 
> What about the *onboard HU amplifier chips*... don't they add 5% THD?
> 
> Also, I know a guy that has successfully added RCA outputs from a factory deck at the pre-amp on a stock Tacoma panasonic HU.


Is that a brand and model?  You gotta measure the particular head unit or at least hear and compare it with a reference one. I think if they all added that much distortion there would be no pros mentioned in this thread.


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## BKJT05 (Apr 10, 2007)

hey guys, what is the best 4-ch line-out convertor??? and how do i hook up a 5 channel amp to a 4 channel converter??? I want to run a kicker ZX700.5 channel!!!


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## jrhavoc (Dec 17, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Kirk Profit is using the factory deck in his TL, and by a lot of people's ears is one of the nicest sounding cars going to competitions today.


Word... Him and Jeff are running through OEM head units and those two systems are very, very clean sounding... Jeff even had his Ipod playing through the aux input and you would never know.



haibane said:


> yeah. I am still debating whether replacing the stock headunit is a good idea or not. I need processing one way or the other and in the bmw the inputs to the amp are balanced anyhow, but the older alpine amps I own don't accept that so I am thinking the JBL is the way to go possibly.


I have an E46 M3 and the HU actually sounds quite nice - I just have sorting out to do downstream. Don't know if yours is an HK system or not but I don't think that will make a difference. The Business CD is either a Blau or an Alpine. 

I removed the factory amp, pulled the board out that has the connector for the factory wiring and soldered the speaker wires along with the cables to go into the amp. Granted - I am running an older AG650 so it has balanced inputs so I didn't have to do any conversion. The sound is very clean - I am impressed. I added an Audiocontrol EQX into it and it sounded like ass - I don't know what it is but when I run the EQ section it does not sound anywhere near as good. What gives?

You can convert to an unbalanced signal with anything that will accept a balanced input - quite a number of Audiocontrol units, PPI EQ's, etc. You have to search around a little. As far as amps, I think some of the PPI amps had balanced inputs, a number of the Zapco amps, and the JL Slash series along with others mentioned here. The big question is - what sort of processing do you want? 

Like I say - I didn't care for the EQX, but I have also heard the Concert Series colors the sound, even flat and it does. So at the moment I am stuck without EQ until I find something else. Ultimately - I think I want the DC Refs. At any rate though - I don't see the OEM head unit as being too bad if you can get to a clean section of the signal or if it already has a good signal.


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## Tonyguy (Nov 15, 2007)

http://oeradio.com/

Anyone seen this website? Factory radio looks with aftermarket features.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

yep, seen it. Guy was asking questions on ECA awhile ago looking for product opinions. Could be very cool.


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## scott_fx (Mar 31, 2006)

jrhavoc said:


> You can convert to an unbalanced signal with anything that will accept a balanced input - .


you're not converting though. it's originally an unbalanced signal and you're not making it a balanced signal. Sure most units can accept an unbalanced low level signal because in the absence of the inverse signal it just subtracts 0 from the positive signal netting no gains in voltage or noise reduction. Same thing can be done the other way by grounding the inverse signal to the ground wire, turning a balanced signal into an unbalanced signal. what i don't understand from the thread is how a balanced input can accept high/speaker level inputs.


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## jrhavoc (Dec 17, 2007)

scott_fx said:


> you're not converting though. it's originally an unbalanced signal and you're not making it a balanced signal. Sure most units can accept an unbalanced low level signal because in the absence of the inverse signal it just subtracts 0 from the positive signal netting no gains in voltage or noise reduction. Same thing can be done the other way by grounding the inverse signal to the ground wire, turning a balanced signal into an unbalanced signal. what i don't understand from the thread is how a balanced input can accept high/speaker level inputs.


Yes - there would appear to be a lot of truth in that. At some point in the signal path it has to be converted to balanced to have it otherwise you just have the "positive" and a "ground" in essence. Unless it is high/speaker level out. Now I guess on your last sentence - I'm not sure if you are questioning either how it can be done or questioning the practice and my intuition would say the practice. 

If that is the case I agree - I wouldn't run high/speaker level outputs directly into anything but a device so equipped to do the attenuation and handle that particular signal. I'm also not a fan of LOC's either, and I would want to know that a circuit is designed to accept grounding of the cold side of the signal to go from balanced to unbalanced - either transformer or some type of active circuit only seems to work. That is just me though.

Seems there are multiple people with multiple situations here all revolving around the same thing - the OEM HU, is it worth keeping and what to do in order to use it with the rest of the system. The OP has an HU that may have high level outputs, and in that case I would think about trying to find another OEM HU with line level outputs such as maybe a Mach audio system that uses an amp (are they line level?) or use some type of signal converter (general term in this case). That way he can keep the stealth and get the signal he needs to the rest of the equipment.

Haibane's case in particular I have dealt with in my car - either use an amp/processor with a balanced input or use a device that can change it to an unbalanced signal properly which is more what I was responding to. The decision there is what processing to use and where which leaves options of what equipment that can be used. As a general response for everybody IMO I don't think some of the OEM HU's are that bad at all. Hopefully that will help clear it up. Did I get your question answered?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

haibane said:


> What about those of us who aren't using zapco amps? On a side note, any idea when the JBL unit will be out?


In my humble opinion, don't use the factory head unless you will also have a relatively powerful EQ. The EQ does not have to be Zapco. That's just what i referenced since that is what I own. I believe thehatedguy might own some of them now too. Not sure though.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

haibane said:


> Sadly I don't know of much that has a balanced input though. If the JBL unit does then that is probably what I will invest in.



The JBL piece will have speaker level inputs. I'm not sure if they will use them as single ended or differential (balanced).

Ge0


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

JBL will be balanced.

But there are tons of amps that take high level inputs.



Ge0 said:


> The JBL piece will have speaker level inputs. I'm not sure if they will use them as single ended or differential (balanced).
> 
> Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Bingo.
> 
> You can take a factory head unit, tap the speaker wires for a balanced connection to something like say...the Zapco Symbilink cables, then you can have balanced inputs to your Zapco amps...and get the DCs you can have balanced in and processing built in.
> 
> ...


My factory system DOES muck up the signal pretty bad. The DC's have allowed me to overcome that for the most part. HOWEVER, salvation may be at hand. PAC-Audio makes a CAN-BUS to line out converter for my head unit now. I can bypass the factory amp altogether and eliminate the nasties it adds to the signal chain. I'll get a nice clean, unprocessed, signal right off my head units CD transport. Hopefully the PAC-Audio piece will not screw with the signal too bad.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Babs said:


> Thank goodness... I'm not the only poor schlep that's wallowing in the idea of whether or not to stay OEM or go aftermarket.
> 
> On the subject of cleanliness of OEM speaker level outs... Mine is the 6-disc 2-din clarion OEM in the subaru forester XT... I can hear distortion from the head unit kick in with volume (only run completely flat either all 4 channels or fronts only)... Also I believe I know it's the head unit straining rather than the speakers, though I know they're also crap OEMs.
> 
> ...


Yes you can. By how much, I can't say. You would need to know a little about the design of the head to say for sure.

But, the less power the heads output devices have to dissipate (due to less current they have to source or sink) the less distortion they will produce.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

scott_fx said:


> maybe i have a gross misunderstanding of 'balanced' inputs but where are you getting a inverse (-) signal from? High level outputs on a h/u just have pos. signal and ground.
> 
> phase/butler tube amps as well as xtants are also amps to put on your list of balanced input amps


This may have been true in the old days but not so these days. Head units don't have built in switching power supplies needed to produce a high enough rail voltage to deliver decent power to a speaker. SO, they use bridged outputs. And what is a bridged output? One lead is the straight audio signal, the other is its inverse. If you reference these two to the chassis ground on the head unit you have a balanced output.

Ge0


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## scott_fx (Mar 31, 2006)

Ge0 said:


> This may have been true in the old days but not so these days. Head units don't have built in switching power supplies needed to produce a high enough rail voltage to deliver decent power to a speaker. SO, they use bridged outputs. And what is a bridged output? One lead is the straight audio signal, the other is its inverse. If you reference these two to the chassis ground on the head unit you have a balanced output.
> 
> Ge0


thank you! you guys were driving me insane!  
now to do some research on this, i'm very intrigued


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## grampi (Jun 29, 2007)

Today's aftermarket HU's have so many SQ shaping features it would be really difficult stay with the factory HU. If you're really serious about achieving superior SQ, I'd dump the factory HU.


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## BKJT05 (Apr 10, 2007)

BKJT05 said:


> hey guys, what is the best 4-ch line-out convertor??? and how do i hook up a 5 channel amp to a 4 channel converter??? I want to run a kicker ZX700.5 channel!!!



bump for a anwser???


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

BKJT05 said:


> bump for a anwser???


Ummm, what speaker config are you going to use. That would be a good start.

Ge0


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## BKJT05 (Apr 10, 2007)

Ge0 said:


> Ummm, what speaker config are you going to use. That would be a good start.
> 
> Ge0


im just going to bridge the 5 channel to a 3 channel and run a single set of either Kicker RS components or alpine type r components up front in my ranger! i really like running a single 5 channel amp to save space, otherwise i might go with 2 amps, but i hate wiring 2 amps.


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## GenPac (Oct 29, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Is that a brand and model?  You gotta measure the particular head unit or at least hear and compare it with a reference one. I think if they all added that much distortion there would be no pros mentioned in this thread.


I know forsure the onboard mosfet amp chips that pioneer uses are 5% THD right at the start. I also am pretty sure alot of HU manufacturers use the same chips for onboard power cause they're cheap. They don't put those specs on the website but they are stated in the manual.

Not trying to argue that ALL HUs with onboard power start with 5% THD -- just saying ALOT of them do -- especially the aftermarket ones.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

5%... eeeeeeeew!


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

CAN/DATA/LAN/Etc aside most of these 'processed' systems can easily be bypassed without using anything extra. A simple tap into the pre amp will give a flat low level signal. Nissan-Infinitis,Lexus-Toyotas,BMWs,Acuras to name a few. Either grabbed at the HU itself or at the amp but obviously before going in can yield good results.


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## Mike Hall (Jun 30, 2006)

Does anyone know anything about the GMC Denso navi units? 


Mike


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Mike Hall said:


> Does anyone know anything about the GMC Denso navi units?
> 
> 
> Mike


Depends on the year whether is DATABUS or GM LAN. Also did you mean Delphi?


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## Mike Hall (Jun 30, 2006)

The 07-08 GMC navi has Denso on it so i thought it would be that make. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007...195892233QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280195892233

Mike


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Mike Hall said:


> The 07-08 GMC navi has Denso on it so i thought it would be that make. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007...195892233QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280195892233
> 
> Mike


That one as well as the other 07+ are all LAN. You will need an interface, although something as simple as the PAC OEM1 with the proper harness would work.


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## Mike Hall (Jun 30, 2006)

I have two 3sixty.2 units I would plan on using. Would there be a way to hook the unit up to the 3sixty's somewhat easy?

Mike


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Just by pulling the multiple speaker outputs after the amp and summing them internally through the 3 sixty. Or by using something along the lines of a OEM1 and then RCA input to the 3 sixty.


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## Mike Hall (Jun 30, 2006)

That does not sound to bad. The units seem to be very nice and with a lockpick will do most everything my AVN6600 does. Maybe there is a way to make the unit think the parking brake is on so I can use all the Navi functions with the truck in motion. 

Mike


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Mike Hall said:


> That does not sound to bad. The units seem to be very nice and with a lockpick will do most everything my AVN6600 does. Maybe there is a way to make the unit think the parking brake is on so I can use all the Navi functions with the truck in motion.
> 
> Mike


Lockpick will give video in motion, but I pray you have no issues. Fairly good product, but from what Ive seen CS is in need of some major upgrades. CoastalTech provides some fairly rare products and at very reasonable pricing, but if there is noone there to back em up how good are they in the long run?


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> My factory system DOES muck up the signal pretty bad. The DC's have allowed me to overcome that for the most part. HOWEVER, salvation may be at hand. PAC-Audio makes a CAN-BUS to line out converter for my head unit now. I can bypass the factory amp altogether and eliminate the nasties it adds to the signal chain. I'll get a nice clean, unprocessed, signal right off my head units CD transport. Hopefully the PAC-Audio piece will not screw with the signal too bad.
> 
> Ge0


I hope this is true as Ill be using the PAC peice to bypass my infinity and add my amp. Is it your feeling then that the signal "processing" occurs in the amp, not the head and by taking your signal before the head you will be bypassing the processing? I really hope this is the case, although I dont know if the dodge infinity does any processing to begin with??


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## BKJT05 (Apr 10, 2007)

BKJT05 said:


> im just going to bridge the 5 channel to a 3 channel and run a single set of either Kicker RS components or alpine type r components up front in my ranger! i really like running a single 5 channel amp to save space, otherwise i might go with 2 amps, but i hate wiring 2 amps.




how would i do this by using a output converter?


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

BKJT05 said:


> how would i do this by using a output converter?


All the output converter does is take your speaker level outputs from your head unit and converting them to RCAs, which you then run to your amp/amps. you wire the converter up and run RCAs and your done


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## BKJT05 (Apr 10, 2007)

King Nothing said:


> All the output converter does is take your speaker level outputs from your head unit and converting them to RCAs, which you then run to your amp/amps. you wire the converter up and run RCAs and your done


but i need one to run a 5 channel amp and i cant find any without spending alot of $$


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Your amp will most likely run on a single pair of RCAs. You can also buy a 4 channel LOC. You dont need to have an rca cable going into every channel of the amp. My Belle 5 channel can run on 2, 4, or 5 RCAS


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## BKJT05 (Apr 10, 2007)

King Nothing said:


> Your amp will most likely run on a single pair of RCAs. You can also buy a 4 channel LOC. You dont need to have an rca cable going into every channel of the amp. My Belle 5 channel can run on 2, 4, or 5 RCAS


oh, i thought i needed RCA's to every channel to get the power of every channel??? 

im a rookie!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

King Nothing said:


> I hope this is true as Ill be using the PAC peice to bypass my infinity and add my amp. Is it your feeling then that the signal "processing" occurs in the amp, not the head and by taking your signal before the head you will be bypassing the processing? I really hope this is the case, although I dont know if the dodge infinity does any processing to begin with??


I've researched and experimented with this quite extensively. See my post titled:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=322991&postcount=1

I have seen for myself that the amp does all the processing. All the head unit does is send a fixed gain line level signal to the amp. The head then sends volume, balance, fade, and tone information to the amp via CAN-B bus commands. The amp performs all this processing plus 3 bands of parametric EQ per output, time alignment, and crossovers through its DSP.

Here is what the freq response right off the head looks like:








Don't mind the slow rise that that starts at about 1KHz and ramps up quickly towards 20KHz. That was a side effect of me forgetting to turn off my microphones compensation in software even though I was taking a direct voltage measurement at the amps output.

Ge0


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

So what im looking at here is pretty much flat, and this is taken straight from the head unit. The graphs in the other thread are taken after seemingly extensive processing that happens in the amp. What kind of vehicle is this you are dealing with? I have an 06 dodge ram with nav and infinity. I would LOVE to swap head units but i dont want to lose the nav


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

Ge0 said:


> Many don't realize this, but, chances are the speaker level outputs coming off their head units
> are already balanced. They just may need to be attenuated to be compatible with a balanced input of an amplifier.
> 
> Ge0


that's an awesome piece of information to know.

Stock radio, throw in one pair of jensen transformers at something other than a 1:1 ratio and we end up with a voltage reduction and ground loop isolation.

Balenced into the signal processor or amplifier, groundloop free from the radio and all sources upstream. thats pretty nifty.

http://semi.noobing.com/radio2.JPG


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

King Nothing said:


> So what im looking at here is pretty much flat, and this is taken straight from the head unit. The graphs in the other thread are taken after seemingly extensive processing that happens in the amp. What kind of vehicle is this you are dealing with? I have an 06 dodge ram with nav and infinity. I would LOVE to swap head units but i dont want to lose the nav


You are correct about your assumptions. What you see is the combination of overcoming the factory systems influence plus vehicle generated anomalies.

Vehicle is an 04 Durango Limited with Infinity sound system, nav, and everything else you could think of. Same exact soundsystem. Very similar vehicle.

Ge0


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> You are correct about your assumptions. What you see is the combination of overcoming the factory systems influence plus vehicle generated anomalies.
> 
> Vehicle is an 04 Durango Limited with Infinity sound system, nav, and everything else you could think of. Same exact soundsystem. Very similar vehicle.
> 
> Ge0


WOW, Its absolutely awesome to know that Im gonna have a decently flat signal to screw up on my own. i was a little concerned about that since I dont have measurement equipment or anything.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

I appreciate the knowledge being shared here. A flat signal to start with is great but are we forgetting the quality of the transport and DACs of an OEM HU? Not saying they are bad by any means but just something to consider when comparing to top notch SQ head units


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

azngotskills said:


> I appreciate the knowledge being shared here. A flat signal to start with is great but are we forgetting the quality of the transport and DACs of an OEM HU? Not saying they are bad by any means but just something to consider when comparing to top notch SQ head units


Is there any way around that? I understand its not SQ oriented like the 880 I just sold, but unfortunately I need/want to keep the nav, and it is integrated with the built in bluetooth in the truck. I could sell the factory nav and buy a pioneer D3 on ebay and break even, but I still wouldnt have the processing i want, and the built in bluetooth would be useless. Id LOVE a w205 but the nav being seperate is a deal breaker there


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

azngotskills said:


> I appreciate the knowledge being shared here. A flat signal to start with is great but are we forgetting the quality of the transport and DACs of an OEM HU? Not saying they are bad by any means but just something to consider when comparing to top notch SQ head units


Ge0, could you do an RMAA style band of tests on the preouts of the Pac device. It'll give a pretty good picture of the quality of the things Azngotskills mentioned. Its free software and simple to use.

http://audio.rightmark.org/index_new.shtml


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Whiterabbit said:


> that's an awesome piece of information to know.
> 
> Stock radio, throw in one pair of jensen transformers at something other than a 1:1 ratio and we end up with a voltage reduction and ground loop isolation.
> 
> ...


Just be aware. Speaker level outputs from a factory deck will produce 10x to 100x the distortion a good line level balanced signal can achieve depending on the quality of the internal amp design. Still probably well below what is audible. But, If you are looking for the ultimate in performance this may not be the solution.

I'd have a serious chat with Kirk P to get the lowdown. He uses the output of his factory head with GREAT success.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

azngotskills said:


> I appreciate the knowledge being shared here. A flat signal to start with is great but are we forgetting the quality of the transport and DACs of an OEM HU? Not saying they are bad by any means but just something to consider when comparing to top notch SQ head units


You might have a point. However, I suspect the distortions added by the factory equipt deck are trivial compared to what is added by a marginal selection in loudspeaker selection, and more importantly system design (install). You have to be on the cutting edge of everything before the minimal amount of distortion the DAC and post amp solution of a factory deck takes effect.

Ge0


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

any news on the JBL MS-8 release date anyone?


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

I agree with you but when you have the same speaker install locations, drivers, and amps....a change in HU/source can be noticed IMO

BTW Its not that i dont like the idea, i have actually toyed with the idea myself but i also know what i will be compromising. I just dont want everyone to think that they can have the "best" OEM HU and think that nothing aftermarket will sound better  Features and comforts of an OEM HU is a different story though


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

King Nothing said:


> Is there any way around that? I understand its not SQ oriented like the 880 I just sold, but unfortunately I need/want to keep the nav, and it is integrated with the built in bluetooth in the truck. I could sell the factory nav and buy a pioneer D3 on ebay and break even, but I still wouldnt have the processing i want, and the built in bluetooth would be useless. Id LOVE a w205 but the nav being seperate is a deal breaker there


I'm the same boat brother. I recently sold off my entire Alpine system in hopes of making the best I could of the factory equipt system. Nav, DVD entertainment, satellite radio, iPod, bluetooth, vehicle stats, etc...

You could do similar with a carPC but, the headaches and expense may not be worth it.

Hang around, follow my progress, and learn. I'm making the best use out of the factory system I see possible.

BTW: I personally know the engineers who designed this system (I'm in Detroit). They can't reveal everything due to intellectual property of their companies, but, I am making headway...

Ge0


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## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

I haven't read the entire thread. I don't know if anybody has mention. You can also mod you stock HU to do digital out. Then run the signal to a processor.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

azngotskills said:


> I appreciate the knowledge being shared here. A flat signal to start with is great but are we forgetting the quality of the transport and DACs of an OEM HU? Not saying they are bad by any means but just something to consider when comparing to top notch SQ head units


Forgot to mention. The NAV head unit in 04 to 07 DCX vehicles is designed and develped by Alpine. Maybe not F1 status, but no slacker by any means...

I personally know the engineers responsible for putting this together. Hell, one of them lives two blocks from me. I know as a fact that they too strive for audio perfection when it comes to personal interests. Much of this is reflected on what they do for a living. Budget constraints limit them on the job. But, that is all part of the challenge that makes it interesting. In this instance they were given
much more leway. The result. A damn fine OEM system in my 04 Durango Limited and other similarly equipt DCX products. My reason for defeating this and going to extremes were trivial to most but bugged me nevertheless. 99% of the public would be estatic with this factory system. Me, I'm a freak and want to reach 100%.

Ge0


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

drake78 said:


> I haven't read the entire thread. I don't know if anybody has mention. You can also mod you stock HU to do digital out. Then run the signal to a processor.


That would be a good idea. I don't know anyone that will do that though.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Ge0, could you do an RMAA style band of tests on the preouts of the Pac device. It'll give a pretty good picture of the quality of the things Azngotskills mentioned. Its free software and simple to use.
> 
> http://audio.rightmark.org/index_new.shtml


I most certainly will. However, here is the deal. It is going to be a few months before I actually buy the PAC unit and install it. You see, it is 15 degrees today with 6 inches of snow where I live. I don't have a heated garage, or any garage to work in for that matter. This complicates things. I'll invest in the PAC unit when it makes sense to screw with.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

haibane said:


> That would be a good idea. I don't know anyone that will do that though.


And how would you control

a.) volume
b.) balance/fader
c.) tone

with a digital out?

Already investigated this. No work around that I know of short of adding auxilary controls. I refuse to do this. My criteria. Everyhing must be controlled by the factory head unit.

A pain in the ass. For sure. A challenge. Also for sure...

Ge0


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> And how would you control
> 
> a.) volume
> b.) balance/fader
> ...


Take the transport from the standard deck and rewire the brains of the c701 to work on the face of the oem deck... LOL


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

A few years ago this first thing I would do was dump the factory head in favor of something that was easliy better. But, within the last 5 years the gap in quality between aftermarket and factory has closed. Many of your favorite aftermarket manufactures are now delivering equipment to the OEMs. OEM solutions (head units) are improving. Even external amplifiers in OEM solutions are getting better. 

The real crutch. They still use the same ****ty speakers.

Ge0


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> A few years ago this first thing I would do was dump the factory head in favor of something that was easliy better. But, within the last 5 years the gap in quality between aftermarket and factory has closed. Many of your favorite aftermarket manufactures are now delivering equipment to the OEMs. OEM solutions (head units) are improving. Even external amplifiers in OEM solutions are getting better.
> 
> The real crutch. They still use the same ****ty speakers.
> 
> Ge0


Geo. My crutch is the amps I want to use don't have crossovers and I want an eq... lol


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

haibane said:


> any news on the JBL MS-8 release date anyone?


That is the piece I REALLY wanted. However, it may be towards the end of this year before you can actually buy one. I did not want to wait that long so donated some cash to Zapco. That and an upcoming CARPC....

Can't say it was a bad decision. I like my gear. But, always wondering what a MS-8 would do for me.

Ge0


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

Thing is. I am working on getting a 3 way going. I have the midbass and the tweeters. I have 3 amps so far and want to get at least one more. (try to rock no subs). So I am kind of out of luck when it comes to buying new equipment to act like the ms-8... UGH JBL work out the kinks!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

azngotskills said:


> I agree with you but when you have the same speaker install locations, drivers, and amps....a change in HU/source can be noticed IMO
> 
> BTW Its not that i dont like the idea, i have actually toyed with the idea myself but i also know what i will be compromising. I just dont want everyone to think that they can have the "best" OEM HU and think that nothing aftermarket will sound better  Features and comforts of an OEM HU is a different story though


You know what frustrates me? IGNORANCE. I have devoted years of my life to perfecting automotive sound systems. I believe I'm getting better than the average bear. I still have a ways to go though....

So, the wife and I go out and pick up a new 08 GM vehicle with the BLOWS, oops, Bose sound system a few days ago. She says this crap (no midbass and fake sounding as hell) sounds just as good as the system I have been working nearly a year on in my vehicle. Mind you, she can't tell the difference between Best Buy bargain brands and Krell equipment. It's the marketing image Bose put in her head that makes her feel this way.

Arghhh... Just wanted to vent.

Ge0


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Boy do i know how you feel...at least mine thinks the Sony Dream System is the **** but it only cost a fraction of Bose...oh yea the speakers are pretty too  (it honestly doesnt sound too bad on movies though)

Sorry for the off topic....now make that factory HU work for you


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## haibane (Sep 29, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> You know what frustrates me? IGNORANCE. I have devoted years of my life to perfecting automotive sound systems. I believe I'm getting better than the average bear. I still have a ways to go though....
> 
> So, the wife and I go out and pick up a new 08 GM vehicle with the BLOWS, oops, Bose sound system a few days ago. She says this crap (no midbass and fake sounding as hell) sounds just as good as the system I have been working nearly a year on in my vehicle. Mind you, she can't tell the difference between Best Buy bargain brands and Krell equipment. It's the marketing image Bose put in her head that makes her feel this way.
> 
> ...


I just give up and walk away. Probably why I am not married lol


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

azngotskills said:


> *I agree with you but when you have the same speaker install locations, drivers, and amps....a change in HU/source can be noticed IMO*
> 
> BTW Its not that i dont like the idea, i have actually toyed with the idea myself but i also know what i will be compromising. I just dont want everyone to think that they can have the "best" OEM HU and think that nothing aftermarket will sound better  Features and comforts of an OEM HU is a different story though



True but I think its differences in frequency response mostly and that would be a difference that is mearly _different_ not better or worst. It could even benefit your particular install by lacking or augmenting an area that needs and if its bad you can always fix it with tuning.


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> I'm the same boat brother. I recently sold off my entire Alpine system in hopes of making the best I could of the factory equipt system. Nav, DVD entertainment, satellite radio, iPod, bluetooth, vehicle stats, etc...
> 
> You could do similar with a carPC but, the headaches and expense may not be worth it.
> 
> ...


I see that you mention ipod. What solution are you using to control the ipod. Ive seen the adapters by pac and peripheral, as well as the mopar adapter. I cant find any info on the quality of the control and useability of menus etc. It seems they are all playlist based and I dont use playlists. i want something that will let me use the functionality of the ipod menu. My wife has a harmon/kardan drive and play in her tahoe and it works fairly well, but i dont have any place to mount the controller. Im looking at the alpine ex-10 but thats 150 plus 80ish to add an aux in to the factory stereo


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

King Nothing said:


> I see that you mention ipod. What solution are you using to control the ipod. Ive seen the adapters by pac and peripheral, as well as the mopar adapter. I cant find any info on the quality of the control and useability of menus etc. It seems they are all playlist based and I dont use playlists. i want something that will let me use the functionality of the ipod menu. My wife has a harmon/kardan drive and play in her tahoe and it works fairly well, but i dont have any place to mount the controller. Im looking at the alpine ex-10 but thats 150 plus 80ish to add an aux in to the factory stereo


Lookie here:
http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159482
This Mopar adapter pretty much mirros most of the ipods music menu controls. Search by playlist, artist, album, etc...

Ge0


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Kils the sattelite presets every time you use it huh?? thats a deal breaker right there. could it be hooked up to the ves instead? the PAC/peripheral adapters can use the VES (DVD player) inputs or the sattelite. I could give a crap about getting the DVD player playing through the stereo, but I use the sat radio extensively


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> A damn fine OEM system in my 04 Durango Limited and other similarly equipt DCX products. My reason for defeating this and going to extremes were trivial to most but bugged me nevertheless. 99% of the public would be estatic with this factory system. Me, I'm a freak and want to reach 100%.
> 
> Ge0


My first impressions when I bought this truck were that I was gonna replace the factory speakers in the dash, put the 7 inch daytons I had in the doors, and add subs and be done. After listening for a while though, i started to pick it apart. my biggest gripe is that it seems like all the sound is coming from the right side. I dont know how the durango system is, but in the ram there are 3 3.5 inch speakers across the dash (L,C,and R). this puts speakers at 12, 1:30, and 2:30 relative to the driver with nothing but a midbass on the left side. It got really annoying after a while


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

King Nothing said:


> My first impressions when I bought this truck were that I was gonna replace the factory speakers in the dash, put the 7 inch daytons I had in the doors, and add subs and be done. After listening for a while though, i started to pick it apart. my biggest gripe is that it seems like all the sound is coming from the right side. I dont know how the durango system is, but in the ram there are 3 3.5 inch speakers across the dash (L,C,and R). this puts speakers at 12, 1:30, and 2:30 relative to the driver with nothing but a midbass on the left side. It got really annoying after a while


That should not happen with an MS-8 and 3 TG-9s on the dash. People would kill to have matched LCRs on a stock dash; and with the PAC device given you an unaltered preamp signal from the OEM head, even better. 

They will probably be coming out with an HD Radio and iPod interface for Dodge soon the way they have for GM, Ford, and Toyota. The HD radio side looks well integrated as well, functions are the same as regular FM


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

King Nothing said:


> Kils the sattelite presets every time you use it huh?? thats a deal breaker right there. could it be hooked up to the ves instead? the PAC/peripheral adapters can use the VES (DVD player) inputs or the sattelite. I could give a crap about getting the DVD player playing through the stereo, but I use the sat radio extensively


That is the tricky part with the Mopar unit. It resets SAT presets on some vehicles, does not on the others. It kills my SAT presets. I'm currently investigating why and if I can correct this.

I investigated the PAC unit. It connects to the VES. However, you loose control over the VES through the head unit. I'm constantly skipping chapters for my kids using the head. I did not want to loose control. I think if you connect it to the SAT input you loose the SAT.

I hardly ever use the SAT now that I have a 160gB ipod on tap. The sound quality of Sirius sucks. I use it for comedy channels and electronica. I'm thinking about discontinuing the service until they improve things.

Ge0


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> That is the tricky part with the Mopar unit. It resets SAT presets on some vehicles, does not on the others. It kills my SAT presets. I'm currently investigating why and if I can correct this.
> 
> I investigated the PAC unit. It connects to the VES. However, you loose control over the VES through the head unit. I'm constantly skipping chapters for my kids using the head. I did not want to loose control. I think if you connect it to the SAT input you loose the SAT.
> 
> ...


My kids are old enough they can use the remote by themselves. I have no problem losing the VES through the stereo. Maybe I need to call PAC and see what kind of control their unit offers. I dont think I could deal with anything but full control


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## Donnie (Feb 2, 2008)

Frankly, I hate OE. They are underpowered, lacking in many features, and ugly at times.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Donnie said:


> Frankly, I hate OE. They are underpowered, lacking in many features, and ugly at times.


Who uses them for their power?

Lacking in many features? Perhaps, but those features can be added on if you are smart about it.

Ugly at times? That's personal opinion. I personally can't stand the look of MOST aftermarket units. They look like a ****ing space ship in your dash. They never fit right without serious modification to your vehicle. And the user interface is not always intuitive. Sometimes its downright sluggish (like my old IVA-D900).

Ge0


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

1


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> Who uses them for their power?
> 
> Lacking in many features? Perhaps, but those features can be added on if you are smart about it.
> 
> ...


If you consider looking like its supposed to be there ugly.... with my double din opening I cant see anything but the factory nav or an aftermarket double din touchscreen looking decent. In the 07 that I traded in for this one it had a 1.5 din slot with half round cutouts to either side because the knobs stuck out past the width of the stereo. Would have looked booty fabbed without serious modification and i cant see the install kit i recieved with the stereo I bought looking good


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## VW_Johan (Jan 31, 2008)

looking at the responses in this thread I have come to the conclusion that you can achieve "good enough" SQ with a stock HU & processing. Right now I´m leaning toward the stock HU with processor solution, there are two many downsides to going aftermarket HU.

I´ve downloaded and read the Alpine H650 manual, and I´m wondering about the volume control. The reason for going with a processor like the 650 is that I want to continue using the stock HU just like now. And I definetely dont want to fiddle with a separate remote control. A question to you guys using the 650, are you adjusting the volume on the HU or on the 650? How does this work in practice?

I´m aware of the impacts of HU settings on EQ etc, but I figure that any serious listening is anyone done at more or less the same volume settings, meaning I would do the anti EQ process with the HU set to normal listening level, and then when the volume is set lower, any change in EQ would be less critical anyway.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

VW_Johan said:


> looking at the responses in this thread I have come to the conclusion that you can achieve "good enough" SQ with a stock HU & processing. Right now I´m leaning toward the stock HU with processor solution, there are two many downsides to going aftermarket HU.
> 
> I´ve downloaded and read the Alpine H650 manual, and I´m wondering about the volume control. The reason for going with a processor like the 650 is that I want to continue using the stock HU just like now. And I definetely dont want to fiddle with a separate remote control. A question to you guys using the 650, are you adjusting the volume on the HU or on the 650? How does this work in practice?
> 
> I´m aware of the impacts of HU settings on EQ etc, but I figure that any serious listening is anyone done at more or less the same volume settings, meaning I would do the anti EQ process with the HU set to normal listening level, and then when the volume is set lower, *any change in EQ would be less critical anyway*.


Exactly. It might even be preferred because it will probably only give a boost in the bass and treble to make up for our reduced sensitivity to those frequencies as volume decreases.


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## GeoffB (Feb 3, 2007)

Iirc as it was 3 years back when i looked at my VW RCD500 it had 5Khz boosted and as volume is increased 50Hz and below was reduced.


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## ES350 (Jan 23, 2008)

Ge0 said:


> A few years ago this first thing I would do was dump the factory head in favor of something that was easliy better. But, within the last 5 years the gap in quality between aftermarket and factory has closed. Many of your favorite aftermarket manufactures are now delivering equipment to the OEMs. OEM solutions (head units) are improving. Even external amplifiers in OEM solutions are getting better.
> 
> The real crutch. They still use the same ****ty speakers.
> 
> Ge0


How do you evaluate the OEM HU on ES350? Pioneer in-dash 6 disk connected to Mark Levison DSP/AMP combo. Do you think after replacing all stock drivers with after-market ones will significiently improve SQ?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

ES350 said:


> How do you evaluate the OEM HU on ES350? Pioneer in-dash 6 disk connected to Mark Levison DSP/AMP combo. Do you think after replacing all stock drivers with after-market ones will significiently improve SQ?


I've never heard the system so can't say. Each system is different and poses its own challenges. It is not safe to say that simply swapping speakers out will make an improvement. It may make things WORSE. Remember, the vehicle was tuned using the current equipment set. This work was programmed into the factory amps DSP. Any changes to the system change that tuning. If you don't have the ability to "retune" they you may end up with something that sounds worse sound than what you already had.

Ge0


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Exactly. It might even be preferred because it will probably only give a boost in the bass and treble to make up for our reduced sensitivity to those frequencies as volume decreases.


Right.. I imagine you could do it two different ways... 

Have a reference volume level on your head unit that you know your H650 was AntEQ'd to, then you could chose to either just use your head unit volume to attenuate with your PXE set to it's highest clean reference volume level.. So reaching your reference volume on your head unit would be considered "full-blast".

or... 

Leave your head unit volume to that reference AntEQ level, and use the PXE volume to attenuate.

I'd experiment with both to see which I preferred for sound quality and/or ease of use.

Nice thing is, if you screwed up somehow (not sure how) and blasted the volume by accident, you can always quickly kill it at the head unit whether you use it or not.


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