# where to 'aim' a-pillar tweeters?



## barrman (Jul 14, 2008)

have a set of mmc6500s i'm installing in my 2003 focus hatchback.

the mids are installed inthe stock front speaker locations in the doors. i'll be mounting the tweeters to the a-pillars, a couple inches above the dash.

i know this is kind of a general question, and each install and vehicle is accoustically different, but in general, how should i be aiming the tweeters? i'm going for an sq setup.

1) towards the windshield?

2) towards each other?

3) towards the listeners?

thanks!


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

search for mr. marvs post on driver aiming.


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## barrman (Jul 14, 2008)

bobditts said:


> search for mr. marvs post on driver aiming.


thanks for the reply.... the only thread i found that was kind of related was this one:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33740&highlight=simple+tune

and that doesnt really specify about driver aiming... is that the right thread?


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## barrman (Jul 14, 2008)

anyone?


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## James Bang (Jul 25, 2007)

you can always try double-sided tape/velcro to see which position/location sounds best for you


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## dvflyer (May 11, 2007)

Experimentation is your friend.

While researching this same topic, I tried different locations and aiming. I couldn't really tell the difference between facing each other or opposite windows. Facing the passengers (or more toward the center of the car) seemed to make a bit of difference. I contacted Stephen Head (Audionutz) who said to point the tweeters at the center of the opposite side window. i.e. driver tweeter pointed to center of passenger window... in my 350z.


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## 03blueSI (Feb 5, 2006)

Well, a few years ago there was a post I think on either car sound or hybrid audio where Scott Buwalda was talking about this very subject. His advice was to start with the tweeters 2-3 inches above the dash so they are above any protrusions on the dash. Then he said to mark the vertical and horizontal center on an 8 1/2 x 11" sheet of paper and tape each to the windshield with the horizontal center lined up with the center of each tweeter. Then use a laser level and aim them for the center of the piece of paper on the opposite side.

Obviously this is a starting point and will need to be fine tuned. Also, play the tweeter from 6k or higher with this set up.


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## JeremyC (Dec 20, 2007)

Yeah its going to depend a lot on the tweeters your running, and the car. My tweeters have amazing off axis responce, so it actually worked out better using that to my advantage, and not trying to hide it by firing them directly across the window. 

Now with my old focal tweets, they worked better firing directly across.


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

oops. I guess it would have helped if I told you the right persons post to search for. 




raamaudio said:


> Off axis is normally the best thing to go for and use the vehicle as a tool as much as possibly instead of fighting it.
> 
> If not going to compete or carry around a passenger it may be your best bet to go for one seat imaging but once used to a good two seat setup you can still be very pleased with the sound, I know I am.
> 
> ...


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## blacksvtf03 (Feb 27, 2009)

Old post but helpful to me, thanks for that post bob. Anyone using a laser level, do you have any pics of this being done? Model number on the level used. All the levels I looked at at Home Depot and Lowes were for mounting things on walls. Wasn't sure how to adapt it to my a-pillar


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## radioflyer97 (Mar 30, 2009)

I aimed mine directly at where my head would be from both sides.

question: how does firing the tweeters across the windshield at eachother work acoustically?


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## lovenlife (Feb 3, 2008)

blacksvtf03 said:


> Old post but helpful to me, thanks for that post bob. Anyone using a laser level, do you have any pics of this being done? Model number on the level used. All the levels I looked at at Home Depot and Lowes were for mounting things on walls. Wasn't sure how to adapt it to my a-pillar


First I started with double back sticky tape and auditioned a couple of tweeter and moved them around every couple of days until I found the general area I thought they sounded best. Then I used some plumber's strapping to fine tune how I thought they sounded best and built my pods from there.

I put my laser on a level and made sure it was level. Had my wife use a sharpie to mark the laser points and I measure down from there.


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## 03blueSI (Feb 5, 2006)

Well, not really a laser level, but a laser pointer or similar device.


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## blacksvtf03 (Feb 27, 2009)

03blueSI said:


> Well, a few years ago there was a post I think on either car sound or hybrid audio where Scott Buwalda was talking about this very subject. His advice was to start with the tweeters 2-3 inches above the dash so they are above any protrusions on the dash. Then he said to mark the vertical and horizontal center on an 8 1/2 x 11" sheet of paper and tape each to the windshield with the horizontal center lined up with the center of each tweeter. Then use a laser level and aim them for the center of the piece of paper on the opposite side.
> 
> Obviously this is a starting point and will need to be fine tuned. Also, play the tweeter from 6k or higher with this set up.



Trying to wrap my head around this. Do you use two pieces of paper or one? Is the paper supposed to taped so the writing side is to the front or sides???


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## Jcube69 (Jan 15, 2009)

blacksvtf03 said:


> Trying to wrap my head around this. Do you use two pieces of paper or one? Is the paper supposed to taped so the writing side is to the front or sides???


from what i read he ment tape them so the absolute center of the lines is the in the center of both windshields

the writing side in so u can see..use one or two its just ti hel u find the center, its basicaly just a + on the paper.

fire the laser right in the cross section of the +....u can only do one side at once so one piece of paper would work....u could use two if u wanted to know both centers same time and u were fudgein aroudn with them for a bit


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## EternalGraphics808 (Apr 28, 2009)

I have mine aimed at my head. A little bright.. but.. very clear.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

I like to see the center of the speaker when it is mounted.


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## UncleMeat (Jul 14, 2009)

radioflyer97 said:


> question: how does firing the tweeters across the windshield at eachother work acoustically?


It doesn't. It's a band-aid for people unable to properly tune their top-end. Sometimes people just get lucky with the reflections.


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## ungo4 (Jun 5, 2009)

UncleMeat said:


> It doesn't. It's a band-aid for people unable to properly tune their top-end. Sometimes people just get lucky with the reflections.


I totally disagree with this statement. The dispersion characteristics of the tweet, the angle of the windshield, the curvature of the glass , the shape of the dash top, the position of the passengers in their seats, the materials the interior is made of, and many more things affect the final sound product you get. To throw out a blanket statement such as this is displaying a lack of understanding of how all these things interact to affect the final sound.

You can crossfire toward the opposite passenger one set of tweets that are mounted high on the pillar above the dash in one vehicle and get great sound. The same set up in a different vehicle may not work at all. It may require the tweets to be mounted lower toward the dash and firing directly toward each other in order to get great sound.

And just because someone is using reflections off the windshield doesn't mean they didn't mean to do that on purpose. Luck may have had nothing to do with it. Mark Eldridge used the windshield reflections to his advantage for years in his 4 Runner to improve the staging. But I guess he just got lucky like anyone else using the windshield to their advantage.

Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for other people. In many cases where you want great sound from both seats you have to learn to use reflections to your advantage, from the windshield as well as the side windows. You either find a way to minimize them through speaker placement as Gary Biggs did in his Regal or you use them to your advantage as Mark Eldridge did in his 4 Runner.

Tim


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

ungo4 said:


> I totally disagree with this statement. The dispersion characteristics of the tweet, the angle of the windshield, the curvature of the glass , the shape of the dash top, the position of the passengers in their seats, the materials the interior is made of, and many more things affect the final sound product you get. To throw out a blanket statement such as this is displaying a lack of understanding of how all these things interact to affect the final sound.
> 
> You can crossfire toward the opposite passenger one set of tweets that are mounted high on the pillar above the dash in one vehicle and get great sound. The same set up in a different vehicle may not work at all. It may require the tweets to be mounted lower toward the dash and firing directly toward each other in order to get great sound.
> 
> ...


Nicely explained !


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## minibox (Mar 25, 2009)

ungo4 said:


> I totally disagree with this statement. The dispersion characteristics of the tweet, the angle of the windshield, the curvature of the glass , the shape of the dash top, the position of the passengers in their seats, the materials the interior is made of, and many more things affect the final sound product you get. To throw out a blanket statement such as this is displaying a lack of understanding of how all these things interact to affect the final sound.
> 
> You can crossfire toward the opposite passenger one set of tweets that are mounted high on the pillar above the dash in one vehicle and get great sound. The same set up in a different vehicle may not work at all. It may require the tweets to be mounted lower toward the dash and firing directly toward each other in order to get great sound.
> 
> ...


agreed. My speaker locations are based on two seat listening and therefore are not on axis with the driver. Everyone seems to have his or her own opinion on where the best location is. In the end it's very subjective and depends on what your goals are. Put them in different locations and switch them after listening for a couple days or weeks and see what suits you best.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

bobditts said:


> oops. I guess it would have helped if I told you the right persons post to search for.
> 
> 
> _Off axis is normally the best thing to go for and use the vehicle as a tool as much as possibly instead of fighting it.
> ...


I think this installer's name may have been Rube Goldberg.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

WOW a Ditts post


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## ungo4 (Jun 5, 2009)

minibox said:


> agreed. My speaker locations are based on two seat listening and therefore are not on axis with the driver. Everyone seems to have his or her own opinion on where the best location is. In the end it's very subjective and depends on what your goals are. Put them in different locations and switch them after listening for a couple days or weeks and see what suits you best.


I agree right back at ya! This is pretty much exactly how I arrived at my tweet positions. Lots and lots of listening to every location that seemed reasonable and from both seats as I think the passenger should have good sound too. You can kind of guess how my tweets ended up being mounted.:rimshot:

Not firing directly across at each other but aimed up about 20 degrees and straight across.


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## ungo4 (Jun 5, 2009)

a$$hole said:


> Nicely explained !


Thank you A$$hole. Er, that didn't exactly sound right did it?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Your welcome ungo4 ! 

ask anyone who knows me, or of me 

What an ******* . . .


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## elvisjer (May 13, 2008)

I agree with just about everyone that's posted here so far. I started with the velcro idea, i ran one piece all the way up my A pillars and then started with them 3" above dash firing at eachother, then started to play with them giving each new position a day of driving (at that time my commute was 1+ hour each way). My tweets are pretty dang bright and had some harsh qualities when totally on axis. After playing for literally months and then trying to narrow down where i liked them best, my personal preference landed on the drivers side tweet aimed between the pass and drivers headrests, and the passengers tweet aimed on axis, both about 4" above dash. One thing that made it difficult is that PT cruisers have very large dash's and lots of space for reflections there. Play around, that's your best bet!


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