# McIntosh gear. What's so good?



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Might as well be a post whore this afternoon...wife's at work and I'm recovering from an epidural "surgery".

The mcintosh gear looks really cool, but the price tag is astronomical. Can someone give me some reasons that this is such highly regarded equipment. There seems to be a large group of people who say that "an amp is an amp". So, what makes this brand different?

*not just asking about amps here...h/u's too*


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

With their amps all you're paying for is the name. They have made some really nice headunits though.


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

ca90ss said:


> With their amps all you're paying for is the name. They have made some really nice headunits though.


i have to disagree


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

legend94 said:


> i have to disagree


lol..._why_? That's what I want to know.


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

legend94 said:


> i have to disagree


I have a couple McIntosh amps sitting right in front of me. There is nothing about them that makes them better than any of the other 50 amps I own.


----------



## Guest (Aug 25, 2007)

The value of McIntosh, as i see it :

- McIntosh has been building reliable, "high fidelity" (in the literal sense) audio power amplifiers for over fifty years. They arguably _invented_ the field, by introducing a transformer winding technique, and associated tube circuitry, to achieve a 20kHz power bandwidth with less than 1% distortion ... in the late 40's 

- Through the famous McIntosh "Amplifier Clinics", run for decades, McIntosh did more to educate the public about high-fidelity audio amplification than any other brand ... ever.

- The stuff is expensive, but quite reliable. This ... together with a certain "mystique", undoubtedly ... has contributed to great _resale_ value.

- Twenty bucks and a phone call will get the complete service manual, including schematics, for any of their products. They don't rely on "mysterious voodoo" to market their products.

How does that all translate into ... or justify ... the high price? Hmmmm


----------



## icky4 (Jan 29, 2007)

ca90ss said:


> With their amps all you're paying for is the name. They have made some really nice headunits though.


They charge a lot for their MX406 head unit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt that just a rebadged Clarion DRX-9255? For the prices you can find those you could just get the updated DRZ-9255. I prefer the looks of the DRZ to the MX406 and you get all that great processing that comes with it.


----------



## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

I have also wondered the same thing. I have always been told by other's their stuff is built proof so you are paying for the that. But seems they have more of a mark-up for the name and history of the company. I have never owned any of their stuff so I am just stating my .2 cents.

However, if *icky4* is correct I did own a DRZ9255 so that would mean in a round about way I did.LOL


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

I was thinking about the MX-5000 more so than the MX-406.
http://www.mbd-indo.com/Product/McIntosh/Mx5000/Mx5000.html


----------



## icky4 (Jan 29, 2007)

I have only heard about those head units, and I heard they are amazing. 

Just like the MX406 was a Clarion rebadge, there is a lot of McIntosh technology in some of the older Clarion amps. Especially this one...

http://www.clarion.com/us/en/produc...APA4300HX/us-en-product-pf_1133851137319.html

The best part about this is how much cheaper it is than McIntosh. You can find them for about $450 instead of about $2000 for a McIntosh 4 channel.


----------



## Guest (Aug 25, 2007)

The McIntosh headunits definitely have a Clarion heritage (Clarion bought McIntosh in 1994, if memory serves, and sold the company more recently). However, the amplfiers were/are all pure McIntosh ... designed and built in the US.


----------



## 00poop6x (Jan 20, 2007)

I have always thought this was pretty neat...

"Power Guard
Power guard is another patented McIntosh innovation. When an amplifier is overdriven, by a sudden music peak, for instance, it can "clip" and send a burst of damaging energy to your speakers. This is the most common cause of damage to the "tweeter" element of speakers. Power Guard, an optical-electronic circuit, prevents clipping by instinctively turning the volume down, and then back up, in as little as 1/1000 of a second. Hard clipping is avoided, and speakers are safe while ensuring maximum safe power output."

-McIntosh website


----------



## icky4 (Jan 29, 2007)

You can find that Power Guard in some of the older Clarion amps that were made while they owned McIntosh, including the one that I mentioned earlier. I have one of those amps and I am eager to see how it does. The amp was already worth it for me just to have the Power Guard to protect my speakers (hopefully). I hope be done with my install withing a week or so. Maybe I will post a review in the future.


----------



## crxsir121 (Oct 18, 2006)

ca90ss said:


> With their amps all you're paying for is the name. They have made some really nice headunits though.




Umm have you ever heard their amps??? I listened to a few and I am impressed!!! Very dynamic and well built amps!!! It's like saying your buying a Ferrari for its name. But a Ferrari is a well designed and engineered machine that will out perform most other cars on the street from the factory, hence the high price tag. McIntosh are pricey though, wish I could afford their gear..


----------



## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

Bottom line is you're paying for a name. There are other amp companies out there in the past and today that make amps just as good or even better for less. If people think you have a high end reputable name and are willing to purches at a high price, why not charge a lot? They know people will buy them. In a same power classification, I'd put up my PG ZPA0.5 or my ZPA0.3 against a Mac. My amps wont walk all over them by any means, but it will be a very close call.


----------



## Entityofme1 (Sep 15, 2005)

I'd put my ARC XXK4150 up against any Mcintosh amp out there. I'm sure the Mcintosh amps do what they say they will do and rightly so as any amp should. However, there are other amps out there that will also do exactly what their specs boast and do it with much more thermal stability and ease than the Mcintosh amps for a whole lot less money. Does this justifiably constitute a claim or a summarization that their amps are "good" when others will do the same thing for way less money? It doesn't in my opinion,but hey all of this stuff is only worth what people are willing to pay for it in the end. Our dollars are our votes so obviously someone out there is supporting their manufacturing and feel it's worth it. Hopefully more people like me though will eventually talk others out of spending this kind of money for a Mcintosh amp and the company will have to readjust their prices to remain competitive. Get that ego and complacency of theirs in check where it needs to be. I don't care what the company has done or how many years they have been doing what they do. If you aren't providing a clear cut competitive value you inevitably will learn the hard way of what change in your business really means for better or worse.

Then again maybe those baby boomers out there who are fan boys of this company don't really care that they are getting ripped off and will continue to embrace these amps no matter what...It's as if both the boomers and Mcintosh have a little symbiotic relationship going on where they can both empathize how prone they are currently to natural selection in the business world.


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

ca90ss said:


> I have a couple McIntosh amps sitting right in front of me. There is nothing about them that makes them better than any of the other 50 amps I own.





crxsir121 said:


> Umm have you ever heard their amps???


Reading>you


----------



## csuflyboy (Apr 20, 2005)

I've owned their MC431 (4X100) amplifier, and have to agree with werewolf...it's solid, sounds very good, and is reliable. It's processing is a bit limited, and other manufacturers have implemented far superior xovers, etc., but most of us don't use these features anyway. Give me just an amplifier, please...

Currently I've got the MX4000 in my Audi, and the only draw backs are that you can't FFW/FRW, nor pause. Randy (the other hated guy) and I did a high end H/U shootout a while ago, and the McIntosh products came out on top (with the close runner up being the Panasonic Tube H/U). They're a no frills approach, and for this, I commend them. If they made a H/U that was a re-badged DRZ, I'd be all over it!


----------



## Guest (Aug 25, 2007)

Entityofme1 said:


> I'd put my ARC XXK4150 up against any Mcintosh amp out there. I'm sure the Mcintosh amps do what they say they will do and rightly so as any amp should. However, there are other amps out there that will also do exactly what their specs boast and do it with much more thermal stability and ease than the Mcintosh amps for a whole lot less money. Does this justifiably constitute a claim or a summarization that their amps are "good" when others will do the same thing for way less money? It doesn't in my opinion,but hey all of this stuff is only worth what people are willing to pay for it in the end. Our dollars are our votes so obviously someone out there is supporting their manufacturing and feel it's worth it. Hopefully more people like me though will eventually talk others out of spending this kind of money for a Mcintosh amp and the company will have to readjust their prices to remain competitive. Get that ego and complacency of theirs in check where it needs to be. I don't care what the company has done or how many years they have been doing what they do. If you aren't providing a clear cut competitive value you inevitably will learn the hard way of what change in your business really means for better or worse.
> 
> Then again maybe those baby boomers out there who are fan boys of this company don't really care that they are getting ripped off and will continue to embrace these amps no matter what...It's as if both the boomers and Mcintosh have a little symbiotic relationship going on where they can both empathize how prone they are currently to natural selection in the business world.


I've seen quite a few McIntosh installs (had a close relationship with the old local dealer), even did one myself ... and never saw a thermal problem with the amps. And that's in Austin, TX  They typically have two layers of thermal protection ... fan control, followed by shutoff ... plus pretty large, massive heatsinks. Of course, a bad install or malfunctioning amp might be another story.

In addition ot what i offered in my previous post, the designs are solid, tried-and-true, old-school stuff. I know cuz I have schematics of just about every amp they make  Features like Power Guard, honest-to-goodness differential-to-single-ended conversion on their noise-cancelling RCA inputs, short circuit and over-voltage protection are smart, and useful. Other stuff, like glass tops and blue watt-meters, are more a matter of taste, i think, and the value of these is certainly in the eye of the beholder.

But having said all that, i don't fundamentally disagree with your point ... if comparable products are available at a lower price, McIntosh must adapt or die  It's worth mentioning, however, that McIntosh is built on solid engineering, rather than voodoo and mystery that accompanies many similarly high-priced amps.

I'll close by saying that their flagship amp, the MCC602TM, is a thing of beauty ... mechanically and electrically, and therefore sonically  Even Robert Zeff (who was, i think, involved in the design of your ARC amps) seems to like it :

http://www.caraudiomag.com/testreports/0112cae_mcintosh_mcc602tm_car_audio_amplifier/


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

werewolf said:


> I'll close by saying that their flagship amp, the MCC602TM, is a thing of beauty ... mechanically and electrically, and therefore sonically  Even Robert Zeff (who was, i think, involved in the design of your ARC amps) seems to like it :


I forgot about that one. 2 x 392 watts @ 8 ohms=


----------



## juba (Aug 4, 2007)

I have recently come into a MC431 mcintosh and this amp is stunning, incredibly powerful across the whole frequency, low noise floor, i will never sell it. unlike some other people I have heard it to compare against many other top names but not all.

I actually have a MX5000 h/u for sale if someone wants it, (yes very good unit)


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

what other car audio amp does this?










werewolf mostly answered all the questions as usual! he brings up very good points about reliability and trusted design. 

im not saying that i could not find a replacement for my mcintosh and be happy, im just not going to  

there are so many great amps now its hard to pick a clear number 1.
bottom line is if it does what it is supposed to and you are happy with it, it is a winner


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

legend94 said:


> what other car audio amp does this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What? Clamps the outputs devices to the heatsink? I know Arc does that.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

werewolf said:


> Even Robert Zeff (who was, i think, involved in the design of your ARC amps)



He's not _imvolved_, he's the designer. IIRC the XXKs were the first he did and then the everything since then.


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> What? Clamps the outputs devices to the heatsink? I know Arc does that.


not on the opposite side of the internal board like mcintosh


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I didn't even notice that was on the outer side. That's pretty friggin' sweet.


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> I didn't even notice that was on the outer side. That's pretty friggin' sweet.


its ok, arc is still a great amp 

im thinking of putting my adcom back in, but it takes up so much room. check out the internals:








(please dont pm me, im not selling it )

guess which member took this photo?


----------



## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

for those looking for an OEM replacement, the MX series radio from macintosh is darn near the top of the list for radios easily available with no compromises.

if the 406 is a rebadged clarion, I say who cares. Looks better as an OEM solution.


----------



## 00poop6x (Jan 20, 2007)

What I'm curious about is Boston Acoustics's amps...they say it has McIntosh influence since under D&M. This is by word of mouth from Boston Acoustics.


----------



## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

icky4 said:


> Just like the MX406 was a Clarion rebadge, there is a lot of McIntosh technology in some of the older Clarion amps. Especially this one...
> 
> http://www.clarion.com/us/en/produc...APA4300HX/us-en-product-pf_1133851137319.html


I had an older Clarion with Powerguard. They're not even closed to re-badged McIntosh's. Powerguard didn't stop one of the FET's from blowing up in the ****ing thing anyways.

If you need an Arc, Brax, Genesis, Sinfoni, Audison, etc in your car you'll appreciate a McIntosh.

The rest of us will stick to $100 amplifiers.

-aaron


----------



## Entityofme1 (Sep 15, 2005)

ArcL100 said:


> I had an older Clarion with Powerguard. They're not even closed to re-badged McIntosh's. Powerguard didn't stop one of the FET's from blowing up in the ****ing thing anyways.
> 
> If you need an Arc, Brax, Genesis, Sinfoni, Audison, etc in your car you'll appreciate a McIntosh.
> 
> ...



You don't need to appreciate a Mcintosh amp to appreciate an ARC amp because the ARC is alot cheaper and will do exactly what the Mcintosh amp will do. I bought an ARC XXK4150 five years ago and this amp has been used daily with very substantial output levels. I have used it in 4 channel stereo full range to 3 channel stereo/bridged to all out bridged and it has performed excellent all the while without any issues whatsoever. I paid $650 for it new in the box and can honestly testify that the money was most certainly worth it. Rock solid build qaulity, faithful amplification of the source material, and a price tag that while isn't cheap ,nor is it remotely close to the most expensive; all these aspects equal value to me and a worthwhile investment in a product that will continue to do what it is supposed to do for years to come. 

What I'm trying to say is that ARC is arguably very close to what I'd like to consider an ideal form of "upper end" price to performance ratio. Are there other amps cheaper than ARC that will do the same thing as ARC? Certainly! However, are those other amps going to last as long due to build quality? It is debateable. Will the ARC amps last as long as the Mcintosh amps due to their build qaulity? If you have ever held an ARC xxk amp before in both hands it's hard to question qaulity.


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

i only paid around 400 for my mcintosh


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2007)

As i said before, i don't really disagree with entity's point. If two amps perform the same, and have similar expected reliabilities ... why not buy the cheaper one? That's the way the market works 

I just like to point out the history and track record of McIntosh _the company_, as well as their products. All that i've written or suggested in this thread really does mean something to me, although it's hard to put a real dollar value on it.

For anyone else interested in the "McIntosh legacy", i'd encourage you to check out a new book recently written about the company, it's products and people  It's called, _McIntosh " ... for the love of music ..."_, by Ken Kessler. I've been reading recently, in fact ... it will warm the heart, and bring a tear to the eye of any old audiophile


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

werewolf said:


> As i said before, i don't really disagree with entity's point. If two amps perform the same, and have similar expected reliabilities ... why not buy the cheaper one?



I agree, but I like proven quality.....the glass front piece doesnt hurt either


----------



## mach_y (Sep 8, 2006)

Werewolf... I'm currently rebuilding a pair of MC-60's, on brand new untouched chrome chassis


----------



## Guest (Aug 27, 2007)

mach_y said:


> Werewolf... I'm currently rebuilding a pair of MC-60's, on brand new untouched chrome chassis


that's what i'm talkin' about  

Arguably one of the "best" amps ever built ... if longevity of design, and re-incarnation mean anything at all ... was born the same year i was  And i've got a couple uber-rare gold ones


----------



## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

I got my new amp today. Well, new to me. Almost mint McIntosh MC427. Actually... it IS mint..

Paid $325...


----------



## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

Damn this is an old thread.

Why is your spec sheet for a MC425??

Does the bottom of the amp label say MC427??


----------



## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

MACS said:


> Damn this is an old thread.
> 
> Why is your spec sheet for a MC425??
> 
> Does the bottom of the amp label say MC427??



oh DAMN!!! good catch. he was selling a MC425 too.. he must have mixed them up.


----------



## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

legend94 said:


> I agree, but I like proven quality.....the glass front piece doesnt hurt either


Anyone know whats behind the glass front piece? 

Looks like a copper plate?


----------



## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

GlasSman said:


> Anyone know whats behind the glass front piece?
> 
> Looks like a copper plate?



I took it off today. Its just metal when you remove it. You can't see any internal parts.


----------



## Fiercetimbo17 (May 17, 2007)

I believe their amps also include a lifetime warrany,


----------



## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

Fiercetimbo17 said:


> I believe their amps also include a lifetime warrany,


Wrong.

They'll repair their amps for life, if you fork over the money.

McIntosh has been around forever and can still service many of the older products they made......for a price of course. Other companies will provide service for a few years, if you are lucky.


----------



## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

MACS said:


> Wrong.
> 
> They'll repair their amps for life, if you fork over the money.
> 
> McIntosh has been around forever and can still service many of the older products they made......for a price of course. Other companies will provide service for a few years, if you are lucky.


i have some warranty sheet that came with my amp. I didnt bother to read it yet. but after original owner, it probably doesnt apply anyway.


----------



## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

GlasSman said:


> Anyone know whats behind the glass front piece?
> 
> Looks like a copper plate?


Here you go......

Older MC420:










Newer MCC302:


----------



## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

MACS said:


> Does the bottom of the amp label say MC427??


I'm checking when I get home. But I'm pretty sure it said 427.


----------



## MACS (Oct 3, 2007)

placenta said:


> I'm checking when I get home. But I'm pretty sure it said 427.


Yeah do that, because the MC425 and MC427 are the same size amp. Just make sure someone didn't swap the top glass plate. I saw a MC427 glass top by itself, sell on Ebay about 6 months ago. That's why I asked that. There will be a small square sticker on the bottom with the amp model number. You're probably good, but it's worth checking.


----------



## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

MACS said:


> Yeah do that, because the MC425 and MC427 are the same size amp. Just make sure someone didn't swap the top glass plate. I saw a MC427 glass top by itself, sell on Ebay about 6 months ago. That's why I asked that. There will be a small square sticker on the bottom with the amp model number. You're probably good, but it's worth checking.


this is the auction I won.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...item=160211846466&_trksid=p3984.cWON.m313.lVI


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

IIRC the MC427 has a pair of fans at one end and the MC425 doesn't.


----------



## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

ca90ss said:


> IIRC the MC427 has a pair of fans at one end and the MC425 doesn't.


mine definitely has 2 fans.


----------



## placenta (Feb 2, 2008)

Since hopefully some people in this thread actually OWN McIntosh... what about those gains.. matched to an Alpine deck. The McIntosh minimum gain is spec'ed at 2V RCA's. The Alpine has 4V of course. Does that mean everyone leaves gains at minimum with a Alpine/McIntosh combo? I know the gains aren't "set in stone" but still, you'd be giving it double the signal voltage even at minimum gains. I max my Alpines volume control at about 23-25 usually.


----------

