# Can the PPI phantom 900.4 keep up with JL audio 600/4 amp



## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi, I have read good reviews on the precision power 900.4 amplifier in terms of sound quality,With it being dead silent. With no hiss at low or high volume,has equal clean rms watts to the JL audio 600/4 amp, and has the ability to shut the crossovers off,and you can run it full range.I was wondering if the JL 600/4 amp can totally shut the crossovers off ,and run full range like the precision power 900.4.Has the same dead silent rating at low and high volumes as the precision power 900.4. I have read reviews on the precision power 900.4 amp,that it is full and detailed sounding,losing nothing compared to quality class AB amps. The reviews on the JL audio amp say it can also keep up to class AB amps in the sound quality department as well while staying cool. What are other peoples opinions that have used one or both of these amplifiers. If they are equal,then the precision power 900.4 amp would be the better choice since it is way cheaper than the Jl audio amp. Essentially you could buy 2 of the precision power 900.4 amp and bridge them together for even twice the power,and headroom of the JL audio,Surely making it sound better with double the headroom. Thanks.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I've used the NVX version of virtually the same amp as the PPI except slightly different components. The board is the same with a few differences in caps etc. In terms of power these "clone" amps are impressive given their size. Would it compare in terms of SQ to the JL HD's? IMHO no. Would they be a perfectly adequate budget amp? Absolutely. I swapped over to PDX's and found it to be an improvement in detail, clarity, control.

My next iteration I'd like to go old school and give class A/B a try just for giggles to compare these competent respected class-D designs to respected class A/B design. Not to get into the debate over D vs AB and please don't.. hehe  

I do think with the right tune, as with any system of course, any of the very good class-D amps do absolutely fine for a world class competition-capable system, and that includes the PPI if done well. If I were competing though, it'd be with PDX's or HD JL's if I remained class-D. Just personal preference. Or possibly the current Arc XDi's which get good reviews, if I ran across some at the right timing when I'm looking.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

See I prefer ppi over JL. Especially for the price. It takes some serious cash to do significantly better than ppi.


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## blazeplacid (May 19, 2008)

I'm using the Soundstream TN4.900D and I really like it.
No over heating issues or any noise at all.

Sonic electronix did an amp dyno on the Sounstream. It does rated.

My cousin has the PPI 900.4 and it is very very similar.


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## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

I have the NVX clones (JAD800.4) x2. I run tweeters and midranges off one amp and the other amp bridged to feed the midbass. I also have the Polk clones (PA D1000.1)of the mono amps x2 for sub duty. 

All these amps and the clones do rate power +. I only use a small fraction of the power I have available, and really just needed all the channels. But for the price, it didn't make sense to go with lower power amps. Its also nice to have the extra headroom and flexibility to change things up.

For me they provide good clean power at a low price point and small footprint. Very good $/performance I think. 

The Polks are marine certified. Not sure if any of the other clones are too.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

I went from a PPI p-900.4 - to a JL HD- then back to the Phantom 900.4. To me they sound too close to warrant the extra money. I found other things to better spend the money on for sq


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

blazeplacid said:


> I'm using the Soundstream TN4.900D and I really like it.
> No over heating issues or any noise at all.
> 
> Sonic electronix did an amp dyno on the Sounstream. It does rated.
> ...


Soundstream Tarantula for the win, yes it's more expensive than the PPI but you get what you pay for 

The T5 put my old MB Quart to shame, no competition.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi, I was hoping some one would chime in, that used both the PPI phantom amp and the JL audio amplifier. If I can get the same sound quality for a lot less I'd prefer that. It's not that I'm cheap or anything,But if you can buy an equally good amp for a lot less that sounds the same.,why not. Are both the PPI 900.4 and the JL 600/4 amp dead silent when the volume is turned up between tracks,and can both of them turn off the crossovers to run full range.Or is that just the PPI 900.4 amp. I would definitely like to hear more as well about the guy who owned them both,and said they sounded too close in sound quality to warrant the extra price of the Jl audio amp. What differences did you notice,even though it was subtle, between the two. Were you able to turn both of the amps up with neither of them distorting or was one better overall than the other,was one ,a fuller sounding more natural sounding amp ,or Did they sound exactly the same.Just trying to find out what the subtle difference may have been.Thanks


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

coomaster1 said:


> Hi, I was hoping some one would chime in, that used both the PPI phantom amp and the JL audio amplifier. If I can get the same sound quality for a lot less I'd prefer that. It's not that I'm cheap or anything,But if you can buy an equally good amp for a lot less that sounds the same.,why not. Are both the PPI 900.4 and the JL 600/4 amp dead silent when the volume is turned up between tracks,and can both of them turn off the crossovers to run full range.Or is that just the PPI 900.4 amp. I would definitely like to hear more as well about the guy who owned them both,and said they sounded too close in sound quality to warrant the extra price of the Jl audio amp. What differences did you notice,even though it was subtle, between the two. Were you able to turn both of the amps up with neither of them distorting or was one better overall than the other,was one ,a fuller sounding more natural sounding amp ,or Did they sound exactly the same.Just trying to find out what the subtle difference may have been.Thanks


read post #6...


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

They don't sound exactly the same, the JL sounds like some frequencies are stifled. That's the difference for me.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

All amps are supposed to sound the same, but they don't.
You will notice subtle differences between them but unless you're comparing the two side by side you probably wouldn't notice a difference, humans perceive changes in sound as an improvement so we are poor judge of what sounds good because it's very subjective to the intended listener, what sounds good to one man may not sound good to another. A great amplifier will make the music louder without coloring the music and an amplifier is only as quiet as the signal you feed it..


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

I've used the Phantom's, HD's and PDX's all within the last 3 or 4 years. I had the Phantom's first. A 900.4, 600.2, 1000.1 I can't compare directly to the HD's that I have now but they are decent amps for the money. But you're not getting a BMW for Kia prices. Build quality isn't the greatest. For example a crossover on one of the amps had feedback when adjusted. The bass knob for the sub amp also sent crackling noises through the subs when adjusted. You can't get a screwdriver straight down to tighten the speaker & power clamps. So you have to go at it at an angle and risk stripping the screw heads because there's a bar in the way. They use a generic PCB design shared by a bunch of manufactures. Internal components are older in order to cut costs, like first generation mosfets. I'm not sure about the power supplies but I doubt it's anything fantastic which is a critical component with full range amps and probably part of the reason you never hear about the Phantom's not getting much hotter than luke warm. I suspect it's because the power supplies aren't up to the task and not truly making as much power as they should. At least I felt that way when I ran them.

The PDX's and HD's can get warm, very warm in fact. I've never had one go into thermal protection despite having PDX's stacked upside down under the parcel shelf in the trunk playing for hours on the end in the middle of summer. The fact that the PDX and HD's can get almost hot isn't because of bad design it's because they deliver true wattage and then some in a very compact package. Both Alpine and JL use their own proprietary designs with newest gen mosfets, beefed up power supplies and advanced thermal protection. All of this is reflected in the higher cost.
But the question is asked do they sound any better. I think that depends on how critical you are or will be. Believe me if you're at or want to be at the point where making .2db adjustments in your DSP makes an audible difference to your tune then I think you'll appreciate having the better amps.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I know how I would like this discussion to end up...just because I am amp shopping and can't afford the 12 channels of PDX or HD that I want.

The clones you are buying an inexpensive amp with probably crappy customer service...you pay more for the JL, but man, you get great customer service and support. The clones are clearly commodity products.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

yeah you reminded me of something else. The manual, if you want to call it that, for the Phantom's are a joke. I had to email them just to find out how to bridge the 900.4 I heard back a few days later and when i tried to bridge it it sounded terrible. Something faulty internally with it.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> I know how I would like this discussion to end up...just because I am amp shopping and can't afford the 12 channels of PDX or HD that I want.


Yea that's a lot of channels. Van?


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## soundstreamer (Jun 2, 2015)

I know its not the same but I'm using a Soundstream PN4.1000D. The sound quality to me is pretty good but I don't have a high end amp to compare it to. The amp is overrated by a little I would say but not to bad. My one big dislike is that it has a turn off thump on the bridged channels to my sub.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

My be-all-end-all (for me) multichannel setup.

Actually that would take 14-16 channels...and a few more because a couple would be wasted/unused the way I want to use the amp's XO to break up the speakers to keep from having a passive between the midrange and midbass.

But the 12 channel one would be pretty sweet too.

Right about now a 2 channel system is getting attractive to my broke self...lol.



gregerst22 said:


> Yea that's a lot of channels. Van?


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

As mentioned, with the beefed up power supplies they make more power once you start decreasing the load impedance, an amplifier "should" double its power every time you 1/2 the impedance but they usually don't unless they have very beefy power supplies, there's all kinds of reasons to go with quality gear but that's a big one..

You really do get what you pay for, it may not be in a visual kind of way but your ears will appreciate it and that smile will come easy when you go for ride..

If those are your only choices then go with the PPI Phantom, get some tuning experience with it and enjoy it for a while (while saving up for some quality gear)..


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Unless you spend a LOT of time sitting in your car listening to music, I can't imagine why you would need to spend huge sums of money on exotic gear. Not that JL Audio is "exotic" mind you. I'm just saying that most people listen to music in their car while driving. So, with all the environmental noise you get from being in traffic, hitting potholes and having a combustion engine approx. 5 feet from you, blowing thousands and thousands of $$$ on car audio equipment seems like a lost cause. 
The PPI/Soundstream, NVX, Polk, etc. amp clones should do he job just fine.

I've just started research and planning on my first truly dedicated listening room in my house. I won't be spending a pirate's fortune on that either but, I can justify a bit more than on my car audio because of being able to control the environment to a greater degree.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> My be-all-end-all (for me) multichannel setup.
> 
> Actually that would take 14-16 channels...and a few more because a couple would be wasted/unused the way I want to use the amp's XO to break up the speakers to keep from having a passive between the midrange and midbass.
> 
> ...


Wow, im guessing you would have some kind of custom dash. Could you explain how you would use all those channels? My Curiosity has the best of me.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

PPI_GUY said:


> Unless you spend a LOT of time sitting in your car listening to music, I can't imagine why you would need to spend huge sums of money on exotic gear. Not that JL Audio is "exotic" mind you. I'm just saying that most people listen to music in their car while driving. So, with all the environmental noise you get from being in traffic, hitting potholes and having a combustion engine approx. 5 feet from you, blowing thousands and thousands of $$$ on car audio equipment seems like a lost cause.
> The PPI/Soundstream, NVX, Polk, etc. amp clones should do he job just fine.


You're right it's all about the person's goals and budget. I probably don't fit into the norm, if my wife can't find me she knows to look in the garage where I've spent a lot of time installing, tuning and just listening to music in my car. It's where I can go for a little 'me time'. 
I've tried a lot of different gear, install locations and methods mainly because I'm curious as to what's what. I'm at the point now where I don't need to switch or change things anymore. Been there done that so to speak. The most dramatic differences aren't with the electronics. It's good install, good speakers and tuning ability. A dsp is a must. If it came down to PPI amps and a good DSP. I'm going to choose that over JL amps and no DSP.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi, Thanks for all your replies so far. I have been enjoying car audio for over 20 years now. I have everything sounding the way I want it,But in the summer months the old school alpine 3544 amps heat up pretty quickly. So that's why I was looking at these 2 amps since they are class D and should hopefully stay cool for 3-4 hours when I have the volume high. I always ran from class D for all these years because I though I would be stepping backwards in the sound quality department ,when using them for midrange,midbass,and tweeters. Heck I was so convinced class D wouldn't cut it in the sound quality department. I chose to run my subs with an old school hifonics zeus VIII amp. The zeus amp stays cooler running the subs pretty hard,But having to come home early from my country cruising after 45minites to an hour was always a bummer. If either of these two amps can reproduce the sonics of the alpine 3544 amp, while staying cool for the 3-4 hours I need for my country cruise, with the amp delivering 3/4's of its maximum RMS power constantly for that time frame, then my goal will have been achieved. If you feel it will be a step backwards in sound quality. I rather know now so I don't waste any money.To PPI_GUY. I can save you thousands of dollars,and years of searching in regards to your home dedicated listening room. Don't purchase a high priced ,so called exotic amp. Purchase a crown xls 2500 power amp. I know sound quailty,and this amp will keep up ,and surpass the majority of super high end amps. There is a review on the crown xls 2500 amp written by Andrew Robinson where he wouldn't give power amps a shot because he thought they wouldn't come close in terms of sound quality, etc .After he was done reviewing it. It was now going to be his main go to amp,to reference all other high end amps to see if they were quality SQ or not. I know the amp is good because I don't even use a preamp at all. I just plug it straight into my oldschool top of the line Pioneer 7050 cd player which has its own volume control, Running to 2 oldschool quality yamaha ns 1000 speakers. Sorry to get off topic.But I thought if I could save him thousands of dollars,and countless hours of research ,I would chime in on this. My goal before looking at these 2 amps was to try to get the crown xls 2500 in my car ,but could never find a way other than using a converter,and didn't want to do this. If someone could convert this amp to run off 12 volt ,then it would be in my car right now. But I guess I'll get back on topic to confirm my other questions regarding the other 2 amps,unless someone can modify the crown xls 2500.


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## 1Sik1500 (May 19, 2015)

I own a 900.4 And love it. Its a great amp and for the price one of the better options. You wont be disappointed. 

Here is a SonixElectronix AMP Dyno with the 900.4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoF2PPt-iTg


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi, Thanks for the dyno link on it. It looks like it is doing over rated power in all settings. I am only interested in using it in full range mode,with the crossovers completely shut off. Have you used it in this mode,at high volume .If so ,how did it sound, Was it full and detailed,was it dead silent between tracks. What amps have you compared it to.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

In the "dream" system...

There would be a 4 channel running the 3 way rear fill using the amp's XOs to cross between the midrange and midbass, passive between the midrange and tweeter.

A 4 channel to power the front midranges and tweeters.

A 4 channel running the front midbasses and bridged to the sub.

A 4 channel using the front half on the center midrange and passive tweeters and the back half powering the center midbass.

That would be 14 channels used out of 16. I could take it to another level and bridge some channels on the 3 midbasses in front...or get a couple DSPs to run after the MS8 so every speaker could be active.

So, that's taking 4 4 channels or 3 6 channels.

The speakers would be HAT L8SEs as the 3 front midbasses, L3Pros as midranges, and either Hiquphon OW2s or HAT L1ProR2s as tweeters. The rear fill would be L6SEs, L3Pros, and some nice inexpensive 3/4" domes or the L1ProR2s. Sub is a Acoustic Elegance SBP15 with the Apollo upgrade. I have all the speakers minus a single Hiquphon OW2. Just no amps.

I have a few less complicated versions like using a L6SE and tweeter for the center and L4SEs and tweeter for the rears.

And let's leave negative stuff about the speakers/brand out...those are what I have, and can't be buying a lot more speakers.



1fishman said:


> Wow, im guessing you would have some kind of custom dash. Could you explain how you would use all those channels? My Curiosity has the best of me.


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## 1Sik1500 (May 19, 2015)

coomaster1 said:


> Hi, Thanks for the dyno link on it. It looks like it is doing over rated power in all settings. I am only interested in using it in full range mode,with the crossovers completely shut off. Have you used it in this mode,at high volume .If so ,how did it sound, Was it full and detailed,was it dead silent between tracks. What amps have you compared it to.


I cant compare it to past amps. Currently running it full range off my stock head unit powering PPI 3-Way Components. I am extremely happy with the amp. No regrets. Plan on purchasing a Sub amp in the future. I do not classify myself as a full blown SQ specialist as many here. Just a rookie that has a passion for loud clean/clear music. This amp works great. I drive 2+ hours a day on work commute and push this amp hard, Lots of metal, Rap. It gets warm but has never went into protect or given me any issue. IMHO best bang for the buck amp out. JL makes top notch products but i feel the noticeable difference in car audio are speakers, Installation and tuning. Those are all factors i feel come first before amp selection.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

gregerst22 said:


> You can't get a screwdriver straight down to tighten the speaker & power clamps. So you have to go at it at an angle and risk stripping the screw heads because there's a bar in the way.


How could they have missed this simple designed flaw. lol.
I had this same issue with mine.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> In the "dream" system...
> 
> There would be a 4 channel running the 3 way rear fill using the amp's XOs to cross between the midrange and midbass, passive between the midrange and tweeter.
> 
> ...


Wow, that should be nice. I would never thought you put so much quality into the rear channels for fill. i might have to experiment more with rear channels to see if i'm missing something.

I have those Hiquphon's high on my "want to try out" list.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Honestly, it's probably not needed. But I have them, so why not?

But man, I am telling you, a 2 channel setup is looking awesome right now...lol.

The Hiquphons are incredible. You want to borrow them to check out?


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

coomaster1 said:


> .edit;
> So that's why I was looking at these 2 amps since they are class D and should hopefully stay cool for 3-4 hours when I have the volume high.
> . If either of these two amps can reproduce the sonics of the alpine 3544 amp, while staying cool for the 3-4 hours I need for my country cruise, with the amp delivering 3/4's of its maximum RMS power constantly for that time frame, then my goal will have been achieved.


 I only kept my HD amp for a month, but it ran without any noticeable heat issues. I ran the PPI for 2 years with no heat issues ether. Three hours a day driving is the norm for me. Long 8 hour summer Florida surf trips with windows down and tunes cranked up to 90%, never a issue. In my system my amps never came close to 3/4's of maximum RMS rating while playing music, more like 40-50% at full tilt even when i was running Ancarchy speakers.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> Honestly, it's probably not needed. But I have them, so why not?
> 
> But man, I am telling you, a 2 channel setup is looking awesome right now...lol.
> 
> The Hiquphons are incredible. You want to borrow them to check out?


Ahh Yeah! I can lend you my spear set of Satori's which are really good also.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I might take you up on that once I get the car near playing...they've been on my list of wanting to hear.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

SQLnovice said:


> How could they have missed this simple designed flaw. lol.
> I had this same issue with mine.


I know right. I guess it met their design validation and quality standards. Certainly doesn't meet mine though.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

It doesn't sound like there will be a problem with overheating after talking to a few of you guys, and no one stepped in to say the sound quality would be any less with the PPI 900.4 amp. So when our Canadian dollar comes up. I will check out a PPI 900.4 amplifier. It sounds like it is a good bang for the buck amp. I'll half to work around them being stupid ,and putting something in the way of the screws.As long as it sounds good,and stays cool,I can live with the screw down problem,since you will only be doing that once.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

coomaster1 said:


> It doesn't sound like there will be a problem with overheating after talking to a few of you guys,,


Keeping the amplifier cool starts with mounting it in a location where it gets plenty of airflow, the heatsink works a lot better when there is air flowing across the fins and Class AB amps can get rather warm, the expected lifetime of an electrical component is dependent on how much heat it is subjected too so the cooler you keep the amplifier the longer it will last.. 

If you mount it in a location where there is no airflow then get a cross flow fan like this,,
Stinger SGJ78 Large Pro 8 25" Cross Flow Universal Car Amplifier Cooling Fan New | eBay


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up on the heat issues with amps,and electronics in general. I am a firm believer in what you say about excessive heat and the shortened longevity of your electronics. I have a few more questions. Does the JL audio 600.4 amp,have the ability to shut both of the crossovers off ,and the ability to run both channels at full range output. Also if I were to bridge the amp, either the PPI 900.4 or the JL audio 600.4 .Will I gain in headroom,allowing me to keep the amp cooler, since I won't half to turn it up as much,since it will be double the power? Also I should benefit from better dynamics etc,since usually better headroom allows for that.Will I be increasing distortion levels by bridging it,and will I be back to square one,with bridging the amp,and pushing it so hard,also cutting the life of the amp down as well.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

coomaster1 said:


> .. Does the JL audio 600.4 amp,have the ability to shut both of the crossovers off ,and the ability to run both (pairs of) channels at full range output.


Yes and yes..



coomaster1 said:


> .. Also if I were to bridge the amp, ... Will I gain in headroom,allowing me to keep the amp cooler, since I won't half to turn it up as much,since it will be double the power?


You will gain headroom ONLY if it's bridged at 4 ohms and it won't run any cooler than a different Class AB amplifier producing the same amount of power, 100 Wrms = 100 Wrms whether it's being produced by a 500 Wrms amplifier or a 1500 Wrms amplifier, both amps are drawing about the same amount of current and will dissipate the same amount of heat.

Reducing the impedance from 4 ohm to 2 ohm does not guarantee 2x as much power, that is entirely dependent on the size and quality of the Power Supply built into the amplifier, what you will discover is that PSU's produce diminishing returns, it may or may not double the power going from 4 ohm to 2 ohm and i seriously doubt it will double the power again going from 2 ohm to 1 ohm, not in this lifetime 



coomaster1 said:


> .. Also I should benefit from better dynamics etc,since usually better headroom allows for that.Will I be increasing distortion levels by bridging it,and will I be back to square one,with bridging the amp,and pushing it so hard,also cutting the life of the amp down as well.


Alright, if the amplifier is distorting in non-bridged mode it will also distort in bridged mode, as an example all bridging does is combine Four 75 Wrms channels and create Two 150 Wrms channels and your increasing headroom ONLY if the load impedance remains the same but it will not run any cooler, 100 Wrms = 100 Wrms


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## CUAviator (Dec 7, 2015)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoF2PPt-iTg

I know this thread is old...but in case anyone cares.


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

I've gone back and forth with the PPI's and really haven't found a difference to my ears between the JL XDs, ARC xdi's, and Alpine PDX lines. So much so that I'm back to the Phantoms....IMO the ARC's were the worst of the bunch. Phantoms are the worst as far as installation goes. 

Can't speak on the HD series since I've never ran them. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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