# ALPINE 2010 - PANDORA !!!!



## Booger (Apr 27, 2007)

http://cea.mblast.com/files/companies/74170//90429.90428.X305S_Faceplate_converted.jpg

GET READY !!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

So will it only work when you have Wi-FI??


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## Booger (Apr 27, 2007)

as if...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Well they DID put "internet" right there on the front and all...


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Wow! Internet radio! 

Could sound quality possibly take a further step back? 

Oh yeah it could, here's Alpine's new speaker system


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

Mooble said:


> Wow! Internet radio!
> 
> Could sound quality possibly take a further step back?


Haha, yeah as if a Pandora head unit was marketed directly towards the SQ crowd. It is like the radio, only better tailored to the taste of the listener. It is the radio upgraded for CONTENT, not quality. No one ever said the radio sounded good. What's the S/N ratio on most FM tuners again?...


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I know it's not marketed for the typical DIYMA user, but sadly the money is in the internet radio crowd. We are very clearly becoming less and less of a priority to manufacturers. They will probably always have one high end model for SQ fanatics, but most of the R&D will go into crap like this, not new DAC development or other SQ components.

It's not Alpine's fault. It's good business. I'm just lamenting the death of sound quality.


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## sam3535 (Jan 21, 2007)

Pandora is the artist displayed, not the name of the head unit.


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## nothinbutnick56 (Mar 28, 2009)

looks like a photoshop


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## basher8621 (Feb 21, 2009)

sam3535 said:


> Pandora is the artist displayed, not the name of the head unit.


Look to the left side of the HU it says Pandora there too.


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## diamondjoequimby (Jun 30, 2009)

nothinbutnick56 said:


> looks like a photoshop


2010 CES: Innovations Honorees

2nd one down

looks legit


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

Booger- any information on a possible new processor being released next year to replace the H701? IMPRINT has been licking a bum's nutsack for what, 3 years now? I'm sure it is tired of the taste.


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## don_chuwish (Oct 29, 2009)

No wonder the current iDA-X305 is price reduced. I like the idea of having Pandora on the HU and it's certainly a big win for Pandora. But it will most likely require some additional module behind the dash at extra cost. I can play Pandora already through my phone (as long as I'm getting at least EDGE network).

- D

EDIT - Oh I see, it's an interface for the Pandora app on the iPhone. Cool enough, brings the interface up to the HU rather than fiddling with the phone.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

don_chuwish said:


> No wonder the current iDA-X305 is price reduced. I like the idea of having Pandora on the HU and it's certainly a big win for Pandora. But it will most likely require some additional module behind the dash at extra cost. I can play Pandora already through my phone (as long as I'm getting at least EDGE network).
> 
> - D
> 
> *EDIT - Oh I see, it's an interface for the Pandora app on the iPhone. Cool enough, brings the interface up to the HU rather than fiddling with the phone*.


That's pretty good. Personally I would can't wait for head units to start having true subscription music file support, not just being able to play it off a folder tree, but actually navigate a Zune or Playforsure device the way you can an iPod.


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## j-man (Jan 5, 2009)

While I enjoy having Pandora on my Crackberry, I don't think I need it on my head unit. Could just be me though


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

Audio/Video/Navigation System
Model: INA-W900
http://www.alpine-usa.com

http://cea.mblast.com/files/companies/74170/Logo/JPEG/87125.inaw900_ipod-tn.jpg
The INA-W900 is a versatile all-in-one media center that provides effortless touch-screen control over all your in-vehicle digital media sources, built in navigation, and driver assist products. 


Anybody know anything about the INA-W900?


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

AWC said:


> Audio/Video/Navigation System
> Model: INA-W900
> http://www.alpine-usa.com
> 
> ...


Looks like Alpine may be stepping away from charging extra to add a module for just about everything on and finally doing an all-in-one nav unit. It looks pretty nice.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Interesting...
PDX-M12


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## slomofo (Mar 30, 2009)

Dear Alpine,
The 9887 is 3 years old. Its outdated and not user friendly. Could you please bring out a dual 24bit d/a unit that has time alignment, peq, 4 way crossovers, and bluetooth and ipod built in. 
Thanks
Dennis
ps- who gives a **** about internet radio.


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## MorfiusX (Sep 4, 2009)

slomofo said:


> Dear Alpine,
> The 9887 is 3 years old. Its outdated and not user friendly. Could you please bring out a dual 24bit d/a unit that has time alignment, peq, 4 way crossovers, and bluetooth and ipod built in.
> Thanks
> Dennis
> ps- who gives a **** about internet radio.


If you remove the "built in" from your requirements, Alpine does have a solution for that. I have a W505 and it will do everything mentioned, but dealing with all of the modules is a PITA...


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## slomofo (Mar 30, 2009)

MorfiusX said:


> If you remove the "built in" from your requirements, Alpine does have a solution for that. I have a W505 and it will do everything mentioned, but dealing with all of the modules is a PITA...


that, and not everyone has the ability to rock a double din either. i also think the imprint is cool, but you're right, tuning that crap is a pain in the ass. 
I want a Denon DCT-Z1 with Ipod, bluetooth, time alignment, peq,and internal crossovers. is it too much to ask 
oh MorfiusX, one more thing *O-H*


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

SQ is dead. Lets face it. I am so tired of installing systems off of factory radios that can easily be replaced by a good after market radio. It drives me off the wall nutts.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

audio+civic said:


> SQ is dead. Lets face it. I am so tired of installing systems off of factory radios that can easily be replaced by a good after market radio. It drives me off the wall nutts.


How many of those OE systems actually _measure_ that bad?


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## Wonway (Jun 9, 2009)

Blaupunkt introduced the Internet radio last year at CES. Not available here though- yet.

Blaupunkt and miRoamer Unveil Internet Radio for the Car | Gadget Lab | Wired.com


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> How many of those OE systems actually _measure_ that bad?


I am talking about GM's and Chrysler's. Non Navigation and Non Bluetooth radios with horrible built in EQ's.


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## Booger (Apr 27, 2007)

Pandora is great for content and sound. 

Change is happening no matter what your views are...sorry


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Booger said:


> Pandora is great for content and sound.
> 
> Change is happening no matter what your views are...sorry


I woudn't say it's any where near great for sound. Might be great for FREE sound but it's obviously inferior even without a direct original track comparison.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Booger said:


> Pandora is great for content and sound.
> 
> Change is happening no matter what your views are...sorry


No, a 500 GB hard drive packed with lossless .wav files is good for content and sound. Pandora is 

If I were stuck in a world of Pandora, I'd sell all of my expensive equipment and just run a stock HU amp with 10% distortion because it won't matter at that point.


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## slomofo (Mar 30, 2009)

Mooble said:


> If I were stuck in a world of Pandora, I'd sell all of my expensive equipment and just run a stock HU amp with 10% distortion because it won't matter at that point.


it's almost time for us all to give up and conform. is this how the people that love vinyl and reel to reel recordings feel


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

The only kinda of radio that I like is FM. It's free and it's regional, so it give you that sense of community. 

I wouldn't go as far as to say that I would not want a great sounding system because it was going to play a crappy format through it. I'll take Pandora on a loud great sounding setup over a CD on a base OEM system any day. ANY DAY!


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## hal2000 (Apr 3, 2009)

slomofo said:


> it's almost time for us all to give up and conform. is this how the people that love vinyl and reel to reel recordings feel


Yes we do. I love my sacds and vinyl at home, but I still also run my house main hi-end system with pandora and the 192kbs yearly subscription, from an HP Envy Beats upgaded soundcard. Sounds good and since I get that "joy of new found good music thing" called "enjoyment", I love it. The sound quality is good enough since the content keeps you happy. Believe it or not, I hear a big difference from 128 to 192 kbs. But with this unit, I'd have to get an iphone and trust imprint though. Until then...my system refuses to break and cause reason to upgrade. Alpine: Give me a 1.5 din with nav, and imprint, built in. Ha!


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## dougc (Oct 24, 2009)

I get Pandora on my Blue Ray player and the quality is great - no commercials, free - I am excited about this one


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## hal2000 (Apr 3, 2009)

OT: Which Blue Ray player has pandora?


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## tinctorus (Oct 5, 2009)

I enjoy listening to pandora streaming to the pioneer 6100bt on the sales floor when I am not installing but I dont think the sound quality is all that great
Although I stream it via bluetooth from my phone to the radio and it does make it a good selling point since the radio has built in bluetooth and is the only one that will do a2dp


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## tinctorus (Oct 5, 2009)

I assume you will have to but one of those car wifi routers in order for the pandora to work? although maybe not it could be similar to how I get pandora on my phone although I have the data plan so I am not really sure how this would work
Im anxious to see it though and mess around with it
although I hate those ipod only alpine units I really dont think you get alot for your money feature or sound wise


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## dougc (Oct 24, 2009)

hal2000 said:


> OT: Which Blue Ray player has pandora?


The Samsung BD-P1590 - the upgrade now streams youtube and blockbuster


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## Booger (Apr 27, 2007)

Guys,

If you are concerned about SQ Check into "Pandora One". It is 192k for better SQ if that matters.

Sad that many still dont even know about Apple lossless for cd quality sound...

Change is here guys.


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## Lars Ulriched (Oct 31, 2009)

lossless sounds is already good enought....it can even go higher than 16 bit...on number it is much better than what Audio CD can provide....it just the component inside that make it sounds not up to the par......


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

Booger said:


> Guys,
> 
> If you are concerned about SQ Check into "Pandora One". It is 192k for better SQ if that matters.
> 
> ...


I agree about people not realizing about lossless format for itunes, but I still buy CD's and then add them to my ipod in lossless format. It is nice to have a hard copy. So I keep only a select few CD's in the car.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

The Alpines when going thew USB use the radio's 24 bit DA not the Ipods internal DA.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

hmm all i want is a updated 9965

copper chassis, built in bluetooth, hd radio, USB FLAC or Mp4 lossless support!!!, 4 preouts, motorizes detachable face with color biolite, and optical of course in case some of us old h701 holdovers


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

audio+civic said:


> The Alpines when going thew USB use the radio's 24 bit DA not the Ipods internal DA.


Only the iDA HUs.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Only the iDA HUs.


All of them that have USB except the 102 use the internal alpine DA converter.


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## tinctorus (Oct 5, 2009)

How do you get to the lossless format in the itunes program??
I admit I havent used it as some people and although I do listen to my ipod through the alpines full speed connection I didnt notice a big sound loss but for all I knwo im already putting everything in lossless format and dont even know it lol


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## ecktor (Aug 19, 2009)

Two ways I'm aware of to get apple lossless versions in iTunes... 

On new imports from CDs:
iTunes>preferences>general> click on "import settings" then in the next window use the selector to "import using Apple Lossless Encoder"

For files already in iTunes you can select the song, then go to:
Advanced>create Apple lossless version

There may be other ways, but these are the two ways I've used.


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## Booger (Apr 27, 2007)

Also check into Itunes Plus which is 256k!!!


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Booger said:


> Also check into Itunes Plus which is 256k!!!


x2, but better yet even though it is slighty more complicated.......do a custom setting with the "iTunes plus" parameters but max out the bitrate. Why not you know.


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## bamelanc (Sep 13, 2009)

Pandora is awesome on a computer...or over your home speakers. I don't know about a vehicle...with satellite radio and HD radio...that's what we need. More options. More poor SQ options. I don't care if it is 192k. It will still suck...over a SQ system that is. Hook it up to a factory system, then ya, maybe, it will be like listening to the radio where you can kinda listen to what you want.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

bamelanc said:


> Pandora is awesome on a computer...or over your home speakers. I don't know about a vehicle...with satellite radio and HD radio...that's what we need. More options. More poor SQ options. I don't care if it is 192k. It will still suck...over a SQ system that is. Hook it up to a factory system, then ya, maybe, it will be like listening to the radio where you can kinda listen to what you want.


192kbps is indistinguishable from the original file when compared in a blind test.

I really doubt that the mobile version for alpine will be at that bit rate though.

Also, I mentioned earlier that Pandora sounded like ****, I just realized that the free version which I tried is not full quality. So the alpine version if allowed to scream at 192k through the cellular network will sound pristine.


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## m3gunner (Aug 6, 2008)

ecktor said:


> Two ways I'm aware of to get apple lossless versions in iTunes...
> 
> On new imports from CDs:
> iTunes>preferences>general> click on "import settings" then in the next window use the selector to "import using Apple Lossless Encoder"
> ...


Your second way creates a lossless version of the lossy version. Probably *NOT* what you're looking for.

There are third party apps to do this on both platforms, but you've got to start with lossless (FLAC, WAV, AIFF, Original CD) to really create a lossless version of the file. Personally, I use Max on the Macintosh to convert FLAC or WAV to Apple Lossless.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

m3gunner said:


> *Your second way creates a lossless version of the lossy version. Probably NOT what you're looking for.*
> There are third party apps to do this on both platforms, but you've got to start with lossless (FLAC, WAV, AIFF, Original CD) to really create a lossless version of the file. Personally, I use Max on the Macintosh to convert FLAC or WAV to Apple Lossless.


Only if the file being converted is a lossy file.


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## bamelanc (Sep 13, 2009)

> 192kbps is indistinguishable from the original file when compared in a blind test.


Was this a university lead, double blind study? 

There are a lot of variables that come in to play when talking about bit rates and compression. However, if you're streaming at 192k, you're not streaming all the information from the original source as you could. That's being said, 192kbps will sound pretty good...but a CD will sound better...on an SQ system...not so much over a set of logitech 2-ways. Just keep in mind that 192kbps mp3 has roughly 7 times less information than the uncompressed source file it came from. Granted a lot of the information is stuff that you can't _really_ tell is there. However, you will experience the intangibles listening to a CD that you can not reproduce regardless of rate of compression. I agree with you in a way. It would be difficult to tell the difference, but it can be discerned. Even with the ubiquitos MP3, I buy CDs because they still sound better...to me. If they sounded so good, Led Zepplin wouldn't need a boxed set anymore. They could put their collective works on a CD or two...save a lot of money on production and save the environment in the process.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

bamelanc said:


> Was this a university lead, double blind study?
> 
> There are a lot of variables that come in to play when talking about bit rates and compression. However, if you're streaming at 192k, you're not streaming all the information from the original source as you could. That's being said, 192kbps will sound pretty good...but a CD will sound better...on an SQ system...not so much over a set of logitech 2-ways. Just keep in mind that 192kbps mp3 has roughly 7 times less information than the uncompressed source file it came from. Granted a lot of the information is stuff that you can't _really_ tell is there. However, you will experience the intangibles listening to a CD that you can not reproduce regardless of rate of compression. I agree with you in a way. It would be difficult to tell the difference, but it can be discerned. Even with the ubiquitos MP3, I buy CDs because they still sound better...to me. * If they sounded so good, Led Zepplin wouldn't need a boxed set anymore. They could put their collective works on a CD or two...save a lot of money on production and save the environment in the process*.


I have compared tracks on a "high end headphone setup" and compared them in a way where you can INSTANTLY switch tracks and track positions so that there is no time in between to forget and reset the brain. 

The tracks were queued in WMP. WMP window move and setup so that only the time slider can be seen, no track list or info, nothing. Mouse held over point to be compared and track switched on hey board stick. Less then one second between replay of test point. 

No difference on any track I compared, I sure though I heard a difference though, but after 20 or so tries, the results came out random.

Oh and those were 160kbps subscription files from rhapsody.

Anyone that says that there is an obvious difference is simply having their mind play tricks on them or something is wrong with the rip.


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## jooonnn (Jul 26, 2009)

I spoke to Alpine (a specific tech support rep that I always speak to anytime I have questions) on several occasions this year, they are in fact releasing an updated version of the 9887 next year and it will be unveiled around January of 2010, one that actually uses a digital usb ipod connection. He said it would be pricey though.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

jooonnn said:


> I spoke to Alpine (a specific tech support rep that I always speak to anytime I have questions) on several occasions this year, they are in fact releasing an updated version of the 9887 next year and it will be unveiled around January of 2010, one that actually uses a digital usb ipod connection. He said it would be pricey though.


Interesting, I was under the impression that all of the USB Alpines already used the digital usb.


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## bamelanc (Sep 13, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> I have compared tracks on a "high end headphone setup" and compared them in a way where you can INSTANTLY switch tracks and track positions so that there is no time in between to forget and reset the brain.
> 
> The tracks were queued in WMP. WMP window move and setup so that only the time slider can be seen, no track list or info, nothing. Mouse held over point to be compared and track switched on hey board stick. Less then one second between replay of test point.
> 
> ...


There are also those that say they can't tell the difference between DVD and blue ray. Perception is reality and perception is relative. I, for one, can tell the difference between DVD and 720p and 1080p. If you can't tell the difference between 168 and CD then hats good cause you don't need to get CDs. With one hand in hot water and the other hand in cold water...the body eventually loses the ability to tell the difference between the two.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

bamelanc said:


> With one hand in hot water and the other hand in cold water...the body eventually loses the ability to tell the difference between the two.



That's due to equilibrium. 

Put your hand in hot, then switch it over to cold. You can tell a difference then.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

bamelanc said:


> There are also those that say they can't tell the difference between DVD and blue ray. Perception is reality and perception is relative. I, for one, can tell the difference between DVD and 720p and 1080p. If you can't tell the difference between 168 and CD then hats good cause you don't need to get CDs. With one hand in hot water and the other hand in cold water...the body eventually loses the ability to tell the difference between the two.


Just to be clear, you are saying you can tell the differance in a fair blind comparison correct?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

audio+civic said:


> Interesting, I was under the impression that all of the USB Alpines already used the digital usb.


They do, but the 9887 does not have USB.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

I sometimes mix up the 9887 and 9886. my bad.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

bamelanc said:


> There are also those that say they can't tell the difference between DVD and blue ray. Perception is reality and perception is relative. I, for one, can tell the difference between DVD and 720p and 1080p. If you can't tell the difference between 168 and CD then hats good cause you don't need to get CDs. With one hand in hot water and the other hand in cold water...the body eventually loses the ability to tell the difference between the two.


I have never noticed a differenct between a rip from a cd to Itunes lossless and a CD. Can some people hear the difference?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

audio+civic said:


> I have never noticed a differenct between a rip from a cd to Itunes lossless and a CD. Can some people hear the difference?


CD to Lossless? Only those with the most golden of ears.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> CD to Lossless? Only those with the most golden of ears.


Good to know. That is how all of my music is. CD to lossless. It is nice having a hard copy. I have that 160G Ipod full with purchased CD's.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

audio+civic said:


> Good to know. That is how all of my music is. CD to lossless. It is nice having a hard copy. I have that 160G Ipod full with purchased CD's.


What did you use to rip it. Some people will only use a free program called EAC to do their rips. It can take like 30 minutes to do one CD because it has an error correction that keeps trying till it reads the disk correctly if it see a bit error. Similar to the "error correction" option on rippers like iTunes and such, but more advanced. You did enable that option when you made all your copies correct?  

From there you get the raw file and transcode it to a lossless format of your choice that supports tags.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

I didn't have the "error correction turned on" I do now though. I just use Itunes. I haven't noticed a problem though. Atleast my future CD purchases will be correct.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

audio+civic said:


> I didn't have the "error correction turned on" I do now though. I just use Itunes. I haven't noticed a problem though. Atleast my future CD purchases will be correct.


I don't understand why they don't enable that function as a default. In WMP it's even hidden away in the sub menus of the device settings, not even on the rip menu at the very least.


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## 12vTools (Jan 15, 2009)

===)


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## Arthurk (Feb 10, 2009)

ecktor said:


> Two ways I'm aware of to get apple lossless versions in iTunes...
> 
> On new imports from CDs:
> iTunes>preferences>general> click on "import settings" then in the next window use the selector to "import using Apple Lossless Encoder"
> ...


So I just tried that on a couple of itunes songs but I have almost a 500gig library. How do you dump the older files without going through one at a time so you don't have 2 versions of each song?


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

probably because it is slower to rip would be me guess.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

audio+civic said:


> probably because it is slower to rip would be me guess.


True


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## kobiejohn (Jan 17, 2009)

Here is a picture of there new H650 replacement:

http://cea.mblast.com/files/companies/74170/Logo/JPEG/87140.pxeh660straight1-tn.jpg


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

kobiejohn said:


> Here is a picture of there new H650 replacement:
> 
> http://cea.mblast.com/files/companies/74170/Logo/JPEG/87140.pxeh660straight1-tn.jpg


Any ideas on what is different?


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## tinctorus (Oct 5, 2009)

Arthurk said:


> So I just tried that on a couple of itunes songs but I have almost a 500gig library. How do you dump the older files without going through one at a time so you don't have 2 versions of each song?


You should just be able to "uncheck" any songs you DONT want to be transfered or synced with the ipod
only click the ones you want to put on the ipod and then click sync


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

tinctorus said:


> You should just be able to "uncheck" any songs you DONT want to be transfered or synced with the ipod
> only click the ones you want to put on the ipod and then click sync


I don't think that is what he is referring to. He wants to transcode tracks without leaving the old track versions behind.

In other words, he doesn't have another 300 gigs available for the process.

I'm not sure if there is a way to do it. You can surely do it little by little and convert smaller blocks of files, deleting and making that space available as you go.


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## tinctorus (Oct 5, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> I don't think that is what he is referring to. He wants to transcode tracks without leaving the old track versions behind.
> 
> In other words, he doesn't have another 300 gigs available for the process.
> 
> I'm not sure if there is a way to do it. You can surely do it little by little and convert smaller blocks of files, deleting and making that space available as you go.


Oh I thought he just didnt know how to remove the old file to replace it for the new one
If he wanted to do that then follow my directions to do so
Otherwise I have no idea lol


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## Jrvtecaccord (Jul 3, 2008)

AWC said:


> Audio/Video/Navigation System
> Model: INA-W900
> http://www.alpine-usa.com
> 
> ...


This HU looks interesting! It's on pre order on Crutchfield for $999.99. One thing I noticed is it looks like they expanded the visible characters on the ID tags. I was about to pull the trigger on a w407, but the GUI still looks outdated, so I was about to pick up a pio z1. Love the layout of the GUI in ipod mode on the pio. Now this new Alpine is making it a difficult decision.

It finally looks like Alpine is updating their product line, long overdue IMO!


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## Arthurk (Feb 10, 2009)

tinctorus said:


> Oh I thought he just didnt know how to remove the old file to replace it for the new one
> If he wanted to do that then follow my directions to do so
> Otherwise I have no idea lol


Yes, well if I turn all of my files into the new lossless files, then I will have two of each song, and going through and unchecking the originals on a 500 gig drive would take forever. 
A alot of time and love went into making that library, sanding old disks so they wouldn't skip, etc.


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## JDM_Ej (Mar 16, 2008)

Jrvtecaccord said:


> This HU looks interesting! It's on pre order on Crutchfield for $999.99. One thing I noticed is it looks like they expanded the visible characters on the ID tags. I was about to pull the trigger on a w407, but the GUI still looks outdated, so I was about to pick up a pio z1. Love the layout of the GUI in ipod mode on the pio. Now this new Alpine is making it a difficult decision.
> 
> It finally looks like Alpine is updating their product line, long overdue IMO!


Now if they would update their Navigation units or fix Ai-Net so all devices are TRULY compatible we would be in good shape.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

What sucks about the Alpine is (as always) you have to pay another $150 for an ADD-ON bluetooth module. wtf, alpine? Step it up...


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## 03blueSI (Feb 5, 2006)

Why can't alpine make an all in one unit like Pioneer. I prefer Alpine and if they did something say like the IVA-W505, but with bluetooth, nav, and preferably HD Radio built in that would be awesome. Keep the optical out, but preferably a toslink connector so we can actually easily find the cable. Also, if it was Sirius ready where all you would need is to add the antenna and activate it like some other head units and many home receivers I think this would cover it for every one who is looking for a double din unit.


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> What sucks about the Alpine is (as always) you have to pay another $150 for an ADD-ON bluetooth module. wtf, alpine? Step it up...




It would be wise to keep it that way. It only took 3 alpine bluetooth divice to get one that works with my nokia 7205.



.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

to be fair, their price for the w900 isn't terrible in regards to typical alpine pricing, considering it comes with navigation built it. But, it's still a bit much when you consider that it's rather basic and other companies such as kenwood, pioneer, and eclipse have units that do more in the same price range.

If they had built in BT for the w900 I'd consider picking it up, but there's no way I'd drop my pioneer z110bt over it. The reason I love my current headunit is the built in BT. I can't imagine not having it now that I've got it.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

evo9 said:


> It would be wise to keep it that way. It only took 3 alpine bluetooth divice to get one that works with my nokia 7205.


QFT

I used to love Alpine gear, but after the w505 requiring a special optical cable, a separate nav, a special box if using the p1 with the 701, and a separate BT module while still being at $1100 MSRP... I'm done with them.


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## Arthurk (Feb 10, 2009)

I have to agree that I long for a single din unit that has Hd, Sirius, and Bluetooth all built in without need for anything else.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> What sucks about the Alpine is (as always) you have to pay another $150 for an ADD-ON bluetooth module. wtf, alpine? Step it up...


all blue tooth units suck anyway. doesn't matter if it is build in or an add on. pioneer, kenood, alpine, or parrot. Blue tooth is a great idea but the whole technology needs a major overhall. When you are in your car the person on the other end can never hear you. Its just my opinion but I have installed them all with different phones and everytime we sell a blue tooth unit it is always atleast a 50/50 battle with getting the customer to be happy with it. I won't waist my money on blue tooth until the technology is improved.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I wouldn't say they all suck. I've not had any issues at all with my pioneer unit. 
No dropped calls, no issues with me hearing or the other person hearing me... no issues at all. 

Maybe the newer units are less susceptible to the issues you speak of. Or maybe I just got lucky. *shrugs*


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

audio+civic said:


> all blue tooth units suck anyway. doesn't matter if it is build in or an add on. pioneer, kenood, alpine, or parrot. Blue tooth is a great idea but the whole technology needs a major overhall. When you are in your car the person on the other end can never hear you. Its just my opinion but I have installed them all with different phones and everytime we sell a blue tooth unit it is always atleast a 50/50 battle with getting the customer to be happy with it. I won't waist my money on blue tooth until the technology is improved.


I can't even tell you how wrong this is. There are plenty of good BT units, especially the OEM units.


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> If they had built in BT for the w900 I'd consider picking it up, but there's no way I'd drop my* pioneer z110bt over it.* The reason I love my current headunit is the built in BT. I can't imagine not having it now that I've got it.


How does the pioneer z110 compare's to the alpine w505 in the sound department?




.


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## JDM_Ej (Mar 16, 2008)

evo9 said:


> How does the pioneer z110 compare's to the alpine w505 in the sound department?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is my question as well. Pioneer does not offer any processors anymore... and there is no optical/digital out on the Z110. I have a W505/P1 now and the nav really sucks... but with the Imprint processor, the sound is pretty good.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> I can't even tell you how wrong this is. There are plenty of good BT units, especially the OEM units.



I know a shop here in town that dropped Alpine due to issues with doing BT, Nav, ipod, reverse camera, etc. He, the shop owner, said that even Alpine admitted to having issues with their "do everything" features playing nicely together. Furthermore, Alpine's copout was saying something to the effect that most of their customers do not add ALL features that their deck is capable of doing. IMHO, that is a LAME excuse.

On another note, he said that he switched to Pioneer and had way less customer complaints from their "do everything" double din head units. Come to think of it, he was an exclusive Alpine/Clarion dealer and now he does Pioneer and Eclipse.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

evo9 said:


> How does the pioneer z110 compare's to the alpine w505 in the sound department?


One word: better

Could it be me?.. .yea, could be. I went from the pioneer p9 to the z110bt and honestly figured I’d be stepping down, but it was definitely not that way. The RCA output voltage must be quite a kick in the pants over the p9. That, or I’m just crazy. 



JDM_Ej said:


> This is my question as well. Pioneer does not offer any processors anymore... and there is no optical/digital out on the Z110. I have a W505/P1 now and the nav really sucks... but with the Imprint processor, the sound is pretty good.


If you have the imprint setup, you’ll probably want to stay with that if it’s happy. The z110bt does not have anything that will do auto tune. I don’t know if imprint works with non-Alpine headunits, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t. So, if you hate to manually tune, I’d stick with what you have based on simplicity.

Having said that, I’ve heard nothing but complaints about the p1 from my friends. 2 of them talked me out of buying it. One talked me out of buying the one he had for sale… if that tells you anything. 

Other than the boot up time (which all navi units face), I have no issues with the pioneer at all. I went through a lot of headunits in about a year and a half, for at least a couple weeks each, trying to figure out just what I wanted and finally settled on the z110:
Alpine w505
Mcintosh mx4000 
Kenwood 5120 (iirc… it was a loaner)
Alpine 9886
Pioneer 800prs
Pioneer p9


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> One word: better
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have to use the KCE-350BT with my Nokia 7205. If I try to connect with the P1 it locks the system up! Locks it where nothing responds, only a hard reset. Turning the ignition off & on does not help. Of course the Alpine tech guys say they never heard of that/should not happen. Tried it in a friends car with the same setup, and the problem remains the same..




.


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## JDM_Ej (Mar 16, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


> One word: better
> 
> Could it be me?.. .yea, could be. I went from the pioneer p9 to the z110bt and honestly figured I’d be stepping down, but it was definitely not that way. The RCA output voltage must be quite a kick in the pants over the p9. That, or I’m just crazy.
> 
> ...


Actually I used the "auto-tune" once and I hated the way it came out. The Imprint processor is used to run active for my Focal 165W's. I am a former IVA-W200/PXA-H701 user, and the adjustment of the Imprint device is laughable compared to the H701... 

If I went with the pioneer unit, I would need an external processor to run active. :-|


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Well, if you don't mind tuning yourself or you prefer it, then yes, I'd suggest the move to the z110bt.
But, if you also don't need navigation or bluetooth controls, there are many options out there that are muuuuuch cheaper.


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## JDM_Ej (Mar 16, 2008)

I never thought I needed Nav or Bluetooth until I had them....


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## Booger (Apr 27, 2007)

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I know a shop here in town that dropped Alpine due to issues with doing BT, Nav, ipod, reverse camera, etc. He, the shop owner, said that even Alpine admitted to having issues with their "do everything" features playing nicely together. Furthermore, Alpine's copout was saying something to the effect that most of their customers do not add ALL features that their deck is capable of doing. IMHO, that is a LAME excuse.
> 
> On another note, he said that he switched to Pioneer and had way less customer complaints from their "do everything" double din head units. Come to think of it, he was an exclusive Alpine/Clarion dealer and now he does Pioneer and Eclipse.


Dont take this wrong...THAT IS A LIE. 
NO SHOP IN BATON ROUGE DROPPED ALPINE.... 

IF YOU NEED ME TO GET THE DEALER TO CALL YOU TO TELL YOU THAT, I CAN.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Booger said:


> Dont take this wrong...THAT IS A LIE.
> NO SHOP IN BATON ROUGE DROPPED ALPINE....
> 
> IF YOU NEED ME TO GET THE DEALER TO CALL YOU TO TELL YOU THAT, I CAN.


It is not a lie, and it was in Lafayette.


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## macmovieman (Dec 24, 2009)

:ears:


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

I think I'm jumping ship from Alpine. 

Don't get me wrong it works well in my implementation (w205, 400bt, dvd nav, 701, etc) but I just don't love the interface.

I put in an order for the AVIC-z110bt - I'm going to use it with some DC amps. I never really do much on the fly tuning, so I figure I won't be giving up much in the way of that feature.

The interface on the z110 is really slick. I purchased it authorized to take advantage of the year end $200 rebate. And if Pioneer (or anyone else) drops anything real slick at CES, I can return it.

Sorry Alpine, it was fun while it lasted - your gear will be hitting a FS thread soon!


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## macmovieman (Dec 24, 2009)

That Pioneer unit is pretty sweet. I think I am wanting a Kenwood unless Pioneer drops something very cool.


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## roxj01 (Nov 22, 2009)

im in the same boat. if something better doesnt come out after ces ill probably go with the kenwood 9140 or pioneer z110. its a shame that alpine cant make a decent all in one unit because i love their ipod integration.


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## macmovieman (Dec 24, 2009)

roxj01 said:


> im in the same boat. if something better doesnt come out after ces ill probably go with the kenwood 9140 or pioneer z110. its a shame that alpine cant make a decent all in one unit because i love their ipod integration.


This is the way it is going to go down for me and my head unit purchase after CES in 10 days. If Pioneer comes out with something new and Kenwood does not I could end up with a Pioneer? 

1. New Kenwood 9140 replacement
2. New Pioneer Z110 replacement 
3. New Kenwood 9140
4. New Pioneer Z110


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## roxj01 (Nov 22, 2009)

thats about where my order lies. then again if pioneer makes the DEH-P01 available here i will probably ditch the double din in favor of that. you never know, alpine might actualy be listening and come out with something on par with the others too. i wont hold my breath on that one though.


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## 03blueSI (Feb 5, 2006)

Well, rumors are indicating a possible replacement for the CDA-9887 for later in the year. I am still holding my breath for Pioneer to release the DEX-P99RS here, but with it coming out in Canada I may be able to convince one of my friends north of the border to ship me one.

The thing I would love though is an all in one nav with HD radio, copper chassis, digital out, etc.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

Mabe the factory BT units work great. Funny that the OEM does a better job with BT. Oh well. I love my w505 but agree that the imprint sucks. That is why I have a pxa-h700. Mabe I am the wierdo that doesn't care enouph about Nav and BT. In my truck I will probably go for an old school dead head like a 7949. I have a P1 and I pretty much use the bluetooth on it as caller ID. The BT is probably the worst ever so I leave it docked in the w505. Nav works good but I rarely use it. I like Pioneer, but I am an Alpine guy so I can deal with it. It is good to know that some people have good luck with BT. Hope all of you have a good New Year.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

sounds like you only have true experience with the alpine bt, so to say they 'all suck' is definately an exaggeration.

I'm done with single din decks. If I weren't an ipod nut it'd be a different story, but I just can't take single din controls. Even the best ones geared for ipod can't hold a candle to the older DD units with ipod control.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

NO NO. I am an installer. I have put in probably 10 kenwood and Parrot BT's for every 1 Alpine BT's. Only a handful of Pioneer's. I would venture to say I put a BT in atleast once a week. The owner of the store has a hard-on for kenwood and kicker.


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## skr928 (Aug 3, 2007)

There is a INA-w900BT rumored as well


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

^ that's what we've been talking about.


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## tinctorus (Oct 5, 2009)

audio+civic said:


> NO NO. I am an installer. I have put in probably 10 kenwood and Parrot BT's for every 1 Alpine BT's. Only a handful of Pioneer's. I would venture to say I put a BT in atleast once a week. The owner of the store has a hard-on for kenwood and kicker.


In all honesty I havent found a bluetooth that I thought worked all that well in the first place....

I think the pioneer works the best out of all of them but even the "praised" parrot unit is a complete P.O.S

I cant seem to find one that doesn't either ECHO OR sound like your in the ****ter when you talk to people


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## JDMRB1ODY (Oct 11, 2008)

Those are so ugly !


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

tinctorus said:


> In all honesty I havent found a bluetooth that I thought worked all that well in the first place....
> 
> I think the pioneer works the best out of all of them but even the "praised" parrot unit is a complete P.O.S
> 
> I cant seem to find one that doesn't either ECHO OR sound like your in the ****ter when you talk to people


Glad to see someone is on the same page as me about BT. A rep once told me the echo is because both the phone and the BT unit have a feedback elimnator and if you turn the one off on the phone it won't do it so bad, but most phones you can't turn it off.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> sounds like you only have true experience with the alpine bt, so to say they 'all suck' is definately an exaggeration.
> 
> I'm done with single din decks. If I weren't an ipod nut it'd be a different story, but I just can't take single din controls. Even the best ones geared for ipod can't hold a candle to the older DD units with ipod control.


Feels like once you go double din you don't go back.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

It seems that way. 

Thanks for the info on the feedback elimination.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

It might not be called feed back eleimnator on some phones. 
No problem.


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## 03blueSI (Feb 5, 2006)

audio+civic said:


> Feels like once you go double din you don't go back.


Well, I did. After having someone break in to my car and smash my screen I am done with DD until they have detachable faces which I doubt will happen. Most people don't want to carry a huge faceplate with them. I don't care cause I carry my messenger bag with me most places.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

I took apart my honda radio and made a faceplate out of it. I recessed the alpine w505 enouph to set the honda radio on top of it, also helps shade the display durring the day. If you will notice my profile pic its not the first time my radio has been stolen.


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## 03blueSI (Feb 5, 2006)

I have a scion tC and even with the cover that hides the radio some idiot broke into my car.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

03blueSI said:


> Well, I did. After having someone break in to my car and smash my screen I am done with DD until they have detachable faces which I doubt will happen. Most people don't want to carry a huge faceplate with them. I don't care cause I carry my messenger bag with me most places.


JVC makes DD's with detachable faces. I have one, the detachable face is the main reason I bought it. It works well.


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## andruha88 (Jan 1, 2010)

seems nice


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## betterbelizeit (Oct 4, 2009)

Great! Another stake in the heart for SQ. This being said, Alpine has every right to create products to adjust to market trends but they at least do so while retaining anything that closely resembles SQ. Alpine screwed up when they discontinued 7990 and introduced 9990 and they'll keep screwing up...and if they ever decide to get it right, eventually, it'll cost us an arm and a leg. The only good use of that internet radio IMHO is for Alpine to make a deal with car manufacturers and sell it as an option. For me, I'll pass on internet radio. Alpine...bring back 7990, it's the ONLY thing you got right in the last 20 years.


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## n_olympios (Oct 23, 2008)

A bit unfair, don't you think? If the 7990 were indeed the only thing they did right, they wouldn't still be around after all those years. At least they have the F#1 status line, same as Pioneer has the RS/ODR lines. What other company has products with similar SQ and equipment? 

It's quite hard to admit that we SQers are a minority _this_ small compared to the rest of the world, who will very happily buy most Alpine products.


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## macmovieman (Dec 24, 2009)

n_olympios said:


> A bit unfair, don't you think? If the 7990 were indeed the only thing they did right, they wouldn't still be around after all those years. At least they have the F#1 status line, same as Pioneer has the RS/ODR lines. What other company has products with similar SQ and equipment?
> 
> It's quite hard to admit that we SQers are a minority _this_ small compared to the rest of the world, who will very happily buy most Alpine products.


How does Kenwood compare in the SQ arena? Ex: 9140


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## betterbelizeit (Oct 4, 2009)

n_olympios said:


> A bit unfair, don't you think? If the 7990 were indeed the only thing they did right, they wouldn't still be around after all those years. At least they have the F#1 status line, same as Pioneer has the RS/ODR lines. What other company has products with similar SQ and equipment?
> 
> It's quite hard to admit that we SQers are a minority _this_ small compared to the rest of the world, who will very happily buy most Alpine products.


When I said that 7990 was the only thing they got right in the last 20 years wasn't meant to be taken literally. Obviously Alpine has been able to produce products for their market base to still continue. My point, and I think most readers on this forum can recognize was simply that it's getting harder for the SQ users that are looking for a product or products that can meet their expectations. 
As to the F#1 Status Line you mention. That was 7990, now replaced by an inferior 9990 system. And the F#1 Status speakers, well that wasn't even Alpine, that was Scanspeak. And finally, Alpine's F#1 Amps...well, that's not even worth commenting on.
If I sound hostile, I apologize. But we all need to call it as we see it. And what many folks are seeing is a slow death to SQ products. And that's all my point ever was...nothing more.


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## k-ink (Dec 20, 2009)

I can't stand these new look HU's. Some people still just want a plain & classy looking deck with top SQ. But I think were in the minority these days!


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## n_olympios (Oct 23, 2008)

betterbelizeit said:


> it's getting harder for the SQ users that are looking for a product or products that can meet their expectations.


It is, you're absolutely right. But as I said, they're not going to develop and produce something that will only be bought by 10 (or even 100) people per continent, are they? 



betterbelizeit said:


> As to the F#1 Status Line you mention. That was 7990, now replaced by an inferior 9990 system.


Inferior in what way? SQ? Perhaps a bit, although I'd very much like to compare the 7990 and a normal cd against the newer 9990 and a DVD-Audio disk with high resolution format audio. 



betterbelizeit said:


> And the F#1 Status speakers, well that wasn't even Alpine, that was Scanspeak. And finally, Alpine's F#1 Amps...well, that's not even worth commenting on.


So what if it's Scanspeak? The Genesis Absolutes are based on the same speakers, does that degrade them in any way? Do you think it'd be better for Alpine not to have such an option at all? And the amps, well they might not be the best out there but they're fairly decent. Other than what the individual product can or cannot do though, it is the only fully expandable line of products ever created by any company: you can literally do whatever you want (nav/multimedia/multiple active speakers you name it) and still win SQ competitions. If that's not worth something I don't know what is. 



betterbelizeit said:


> If I sound hostile, I apologize. But we all need to call it as we see it. And what many folks are seeing is a slow death to SQ products. And that's all my point ever was...nothing more.


You don't sound hostile, I can totally relate to your remarks, as I'm in the same position as you. It is quite rhetorical this convo though. I've been in this game for nearly 20 years now (ok, 15 years since I bought my first car audio device) and year by year I see the same thing, with a few sparkles now and then (the DRZ9255 4 years ago, the P99RS/P01 now, etc). There's not much we can do though, apart from buy the small amount of good SQ products out there. It's the only way we can convince the companies keep producing them. I only wish my budget was limitless, but alas, it isn't - by far.


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## betterbelizeit (Oct 4, 2009)

n_olympios said:


> It is, you're absolutely right. But as I said, they're not going to develop and produce something that will only be bought by 10 (or even 100) people per continent, are they?
> 
> True, but I hope that my remarks didn't suggest that I expect Alpine to produce only SQ products.
> 
> ...


I think we agree more than we disagree. "sparkles" yes, the DRZ has a place, Pioneer is taking the lead. Denon Z1 and 7990 are still available. McIntosh MX5000 with the MDA5000 together is a force to reckon with. Nakamichi 700 is better than 700II and it's targetted to an older croud where vocals are everything and the only thing for them, but still needs to be recognized as a good head unit. We're left with a handful to choose from.


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