# Diyma 7" update



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

This is finally it. Just wanted to give a quick update with more to follow in the near future.

Xmag: 11mm
Xsus: 7mm
Xmech: 16mm p-p
Spl: 86dbwm
Qts: 1.2
Fs: 78hz
Vas: 9L
Le: .4mh
Znom: 4 ohm
Mounting depth: 83mm
Outer diameter: 171mm

Some features:

Motor topology is xbl^2, with a copper shorting ring to minimize distortion and bl compression. Thick cast aluminum open chassis and venting under and through the spider. No pole vent, so there's no need to worry about providing enough clearance behind the driver.

I decided on a treated paper cone, since it provides a smooth extended top end. Tonally, I also feel it to be the most natural sounding. It's also easier to tune, and you don't have to worry about breakup and coloration.

This driver was optimized for use in a car door, without the need for a crossover. There's a smooth ~3db rise centered at 80hz, followed by a very steep rolloff. Should give you that nice kick/punch, without sounding too bloated or muddy... and you won't have to worry about overdriving the mid with most music. 










*Update*

Here's an unequalized frequency response plot, taken at the driver headrest with a single mid in the driver side door. If you know the doors on 5th generation Honda Accords, the speaker location is far forward and low near your foot. If I had to guess, I'd say 60-70 degrees off-axis.

Pretty good response to 4khz, then a nice smooth rolloff. Alot of peaks and dips from the doorpanel/grille obstruction. Low end is pretty nice, although there's some kind of weird -5db plateau going out to 30hz. I prefer the midbass with a 12db highpass at 80hz, for maximum output.


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## sqkev (Mar 7, 2005)

nice, when can i order a pair?
i hope the price is at least competitive with the seas standard line


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## cam2Xrunner (Apr 30, 2005)

COOL

Any more pics?

EDIT: Thanks


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

Why a 7" and why such a high Qts?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

~170mm is a fairly common size for alot of drivers. I wanted something that was as big as possible, while still able to fit into a good number of doors.

As far as high qts, I find most people prefer a slight ~3db peak around 80-100hz for a more "aggressive" midbass. The sharper rolloff also provides subjectively tighter, faster response.

I expect pricing to be competitive with the Seas performance lines. Perhaps even a pre-order/intro special for further price reduction.


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## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

80Hz AKA subs required 

The real question is, can xbl^2 sound good?

-aaron


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Looks good dang. not sure if i like the sound of the steep roll of below 80hz though, that is untill i can hopefully flatten the response of my sub out some above 50hz.


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## slaterbj (Dec 7, 2005)

I have been a long time forum lurker and this post finally got me to register! I am looking at doing my first 2-way active set and these look to be the perfect mid. I am all over a preorder.


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## af22 (Sep 22, 2005)

but npdang! i just bought seas w18nx's last week!

can you give us an idea how well they'll perform compared to the other reviewed speakers?


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Nice, I for one would have liked to see binding posts instead of the flat terminals, but othe than than its a nice looking driver. Yeah, lets get a pre-order rolling out here...


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## slim j (Nov 30, 2005)

Hell, this mid and your tweet and I will be good to go.


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## tf1216 (May 18, 2005)

Consider me in! I will write a review of their performance compared to the Seas L22s which are in my doors right now. I can write a review about how they perform as a 2-way with Hiquphon OW2s and as a 3-way as the dedicated midbass driver! 

af22, if you decide to sell those W18NX please let me know. Thanks!


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

That definitely has the bones to be a great midwoofer for car (or dipole home) usage.


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Hey I think we should come up with a contest to come up with a logo design and a name for this driver. And the contest winner should receive a fee pair of them. How's that sound mane?


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## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

Glad to finally see some progress on these....can't wait for the tweets!


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

Understand the design priorities now, seems well suited for it´s purpose. 

One comment on binding posts. The only good ones are the push type. In all other cases I prefer a place that I can solder good.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

wow they look much nicer than the original protoypes I like the new basket 

they sure are deep 

nice im in---for a couple of them when the preorder jumps off


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

newtitan said:


> wow they look much nicer than the original protoypes I like the new basket
> 
> they sure are deep
> 
> nice im in---for a couple of them when the preorder jumps off


Well if thats the case, then I might as well not get any just yet, but rather wait until a week after you get yours, then I can buy them off of you for 85% of the buying price!


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

LOL thats cold man  but hey that may be wise tooo 

something tells me these are keeper though so dont hold your breath man


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

DS-21 said:


> That definitely has the bones to be a great midwoofer for car (or dipole home) usage.


yea, for my tastes i think i'd be more inclined to run it dipole than in a car. we'll have to see tho of course


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## 10K2HVN (Mar 8, 2005)

that thing looks quite nice!

really nice!

Thats a really nice lookin basket!

IMO, id prefer soldering post over push-type terminals on *midwoofers*. Plus it keeps the cost down!


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## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

what kind of power handling are these going to have? Also, in a well damped/sealed door, would you expect these to be able to respond down lower than 80hz?


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## Thoraudio (Aug 9, 2005)

ArcL100 said:


> 80Hz AKA subs required
> 
> The real question is, can xbl^2 sound good?
> 
> -aaron


The WR's sound good so


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## Derek (Jun 4, 2005)

Thoraudio said:


> The WR's sound good so


not all xbl2 drivers sound the same....i was not a huge fan of the brahma....completely loved the koda subs....and big fan of the wr's....


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

One question....would this be considered an upgrade over the CA18's.....J/w really. 

Also with a fs of 78 and a decently high xmax as it looks, with 20mm xmech p-p and 7.5mm xsus i'm thinking massive amounts of midbass from this driver.....in its susseptible range.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I appreciate all the comments! 

Subjectively, I have to say it sounds pretty good. Imho it sounds alot like a Scan-Speak revelator (18w/8531g), but with a little more body and clarity with vocals (Snow Rose anyone?). The bass is much snappier, and punchier as well and this is immediately noticeable. I can even turn my sub up a notch now and it blends in better, and I notice that the lower midrange sounds a bit cleaner without all the resonance from playing subbass out of my mids.

Let me post some in-car measurements so that you guys can get a better "real world" idea of the bass response. I would not recommend this driver for sealed enclosures. Of course if you want to extend the low bass response, that's very easy to do with a bit of eq/linkwitz transform. The driver certain has the excursion to handle low frequencies better than most.

I guess the whole concept for this driver was low distortion+high excursion, combined with ease of use. I know this may not please some of you that want to push the bleeding edge of driver performance and deal with the tuning issues later, but I think it will work out best for the majority of people.


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## FocusInCali (Jul 3, 2005)

Very cool. Good timing, I was about to make an order with Solen, but I'll wait for these. Mounting depth is gonna be tight at 3.26" though.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Will post pre-order pricing later this week. It'll be around what you'd pay for a Seas G18RNX/P. Will also be putting my W18NX's and Dayton reference HF 12" up for sale if anyone was interested.


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## slaterbj (Dec 7, 2005)

Do you mean CA18RNX pricing or W18NX pricing? I was looking for the G18RNX at Madisound and didn't see them.


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## 346 (Aug 22, 2005)

G18RNX is 75 USD each at solen.


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## FocusInCali (Jul 3, 2005)

And they have a few left in stock right now. That's what I was about to order, until I saw these.


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

They must be good if he is putting he W18NX's up for sale.....I must get a pair...damn you Dang, my wallet is gonna end up feeling this.

Gonna hvae to get both the Midbasses and the sub as it looks...... Hehe can we get a combination order discount? 

BTW how would they work with 40rms, and what VC config are they....Single 4ohm, or what, i don't think it was mentioned.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Added the Klippel data and t/s parameters. You can't see the BL curve extend to 11mm because of the suspension limits which stopped the test at ~8mm. I did have the driver Dumax tested, and BL was a little over 11mm 1 way. The newer suspension seems to have less throw than the old one, hence I updated the xmech/xsus values to reflect that.


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## Excelsior (Dec 8, 2005)

I'm going to ask the obvious questions:

why is Le so high if it uses faradays and XBL?
why is QTS at such astronomical levels when .6 would have modeled nearly identical but gained you a massive amount in efficency?
why is efficency so low and Fs so high (well I know it's pretty much cause of the QES, BL, etc  )?
and why is xsus so low when XBL2 could easily extend that out to 13-14mm one way?
and do you have a distortion plot, FR etc?


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

damn Nguyen looks like I might have to switch to the DIYMA train on my next system, looks good, keep us updated man might have to jump on this train. a little off topic, borrowed a Hublot Big Bang steel today, its beautiful man. absolutely stunning.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Excelsior said:


> I'm going to ask the obvious questions:
> 
> why is Le so high if it uses faradays and XBL?
> why is QTS at such astronomical levels when .6 would have modeled nearly identical but gained you a massive amount in efficency?
> ...


I don't consider Le to be so high? But the faraday ring was added to reduce flux modulation and inductance variation not to reduce Le. More important Imho.. since Le is easily low enough for a response out to 3-4khz.

Qts/fs... some will like it some will not. Qts of .6 would not have given nearly similar response. Also keeping the magnet diameter/size small for easy mounting.

High efficiency wasn't a priority in this design. 86db, with almost 90db in the midbass region was good enough for me. I certainly have no issues driving the speaker to satisfying levels.

Xsus could be higher, and here I do think there was a bit of compromise. But I don't think it makes much of a difference given the lower end response a few mm isn't going to make a difference. 13-14mm of linear travel is not possible unless you want to increase driver depth... and not truly necessarily unless you want to begin producing subbass.

Please keep in mind the design is not for home use, ported enclosures, etc. but strictly car door.

I will update with some sample in-car measurements. I don't have any distortion plots atm, but listening to the driver it's very clean. I will post more data later on.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

skylar112 said:


> damn Nguyen looks like I might have to switch to the DIYMA train on my next system, looks good, keep us updated man might have to jump on this train. a little off topic, borrowed a Hublot Big Bang steel today, its beautiful man. absolutely stunning.


Damn that's a really nice one... pretty much the only nice Hublot 

Can I trade you some speakers for an AP ROO


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Nice explination dang....How much power are you hitting them with right now, and really what amount would you consider ideal to get the most out of them, i'd have like either 82rms @4ohms, or 160rms @4ohms with my other amp. Think thats more than enough to kill someone? I do like the empasis on a midbass oriented driver, where majority of people end up lacking, but has the detail and extenison to easily go up to 3-4khz, as you mention a few db higher in the midbass region, which could make the sub blend much better....what kind of xover point and slope are you using on it? Can't wait to see some FR graphs and distortion graphs, this driver might be better than the Legatia series from Budwada(sp?).


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## Excelsior (Dec 8, 2005)

npdang said:


> I don't consider Le to be so high? But the faraday ring was added to reduce flux modulation and inductance variation not to reduce Le. More important Imho.. since Le is easily low enough for a response out to 3-4khz.
> 
> Qts/fs... some will like it some will not. Qts of .6 would not have given nearly similar response. Also keeping the magnet diameter/size small for easy mounting.
> 
> ...



in fact putting them in anything but free air would cause terrible problems

I sincerely am NOT trying to do anything negative because personally they look pretty nice for 7's

but this is just an example of what I'm talking about...

the pic below is what I'm talking about... your speaker is in the red, another 88db/w speaker is in the orange... as you can see these are both in IB, the F3 is 6hz lower than your speaker and it has a much flatter FR overall with far more low end even in IB (sealed in 7L it goes 2-3 octaves lower)

heres the specs 

Fs = 40 Hz
Qms = 3.86
Vas = 35.61 liters
Cms = 1.439 mm/N
Mms = 11 g
Sd = 132 sq.cm
Qes = 0.7
Re = 3.2 ohms
BL = 3.555 N/A
Qts = 0.593

this is just an example of what I meant... if I messed with it in FineMotor I probably could come up with a much better design, but this was meant to be quick....

the result of your design is a FR hump that's a bit over 0db but never reaches over 1db from this and once you match input that design is at least 1db louder at all frequencies...

that's just where I was coming from... does look good though

Cheers Dang

I look forward to all your DIYMA speakers


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

I can't speak for Dang but, I think thats what he was actually striving for, a driver that wasn't boring sounding, slightly aggressive, and had a little kick at around 80hz, but sacrificing the low end of the driver, which ideally i guess shouldn't go much below 60hz, as the f3 looks to be around 60hz.


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## B&K (Sep 20, 2005)

Ouch, don't want to ask but when are these going up for sale?


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## Excelsior (Dec 8, 2005)

demon2091tb said:


> I can't speak for Dang but, I think thats what he was actually striving for, a driver that wasn't boring sounding, slightly aggressive, and had a little kick at around 80hz, but sacrificing the low end of the driver, which ideally i guess shouldn't go much below 60hz, as the f3 looks to be around 60hz.



that hump at 80hz-120hz probably isn't going to be audible

matching inputs makes that hump only touching the other drivers SPL and then it's 2db above it for the rest of the FR (efficency baby )

not only that but how can you call decent 40hz playback from your doors boring sounding???     

I assume that he wanted the really nice 80hz brute... you still have that impedence right around 70-90hz to contend with so you'll actually likely have a dip there rather than a bump

pushing back the impedence hump to around 45hz centered would remove most if not all of those problems

group delay in IB also happens to be superior in that really quick mock up I did (yea I know it's not perfect but I did it in 30 secs)

and also just so you know 100w would hit xmech at 73hz... however it's displacement graph is very nice... that's a good place where it shines  

the design actually seems to be like an already Bass boost speaker with a fully controled excursion  

seroiusly though you actually wouldn't need an xover on this which is pretty cool

Cheers dang and all


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## Thoraudio (Aug 9, 2005)

Derek said:


> not all xbl2 drivers sound the same....i was not a huge fan of the brahma....completely loved the koda subs....and big fan of the wr's....


Just pointing out that it can sound good.

And you were but a child when you blewded up that thar Brahamamaha.


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## Derek (Jun 4, 2005)

Thoraudio said:


> Just pointing out that it can sound good.
> 
> And you were but a child when you blewded up that thar Brahamamaha.


still doesn't seem like that driver has been out and about for that long....it was a good sub....went low....just didn't have the attack i wanted 

the koda on the other hand.....best ported woofer i've ever heard in car....amazing....too bad the originals aren't around anymore


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

Derek said:


> still doesn't seem like that driver has been out and about for that long....it was a good sub....went low....just didn't have the attack i wanted
> 
> the koda on the other hand.....best ported woofer i've ever heard in car....amazing....too bad the originals aren't around anymore


I thought the DD's were the bombdiggidy ported


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## Derek (Jun 4, 2005)

strong*I*bumpin said:


> I thought the DD's were the bombdiggidy ported


if sounding like my ass after eating a hole case of creamed corn = bombdiggidy.

you are correct


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## cam2Xrunner (Apr 30, 2005)

..No doubt


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Will begin taking pre-orders starting on the new year. Pre-order price in limited quantity will be $50 each. Retail pricing will be $75 each.


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## Sinfoni_USA (Mar 9, 2005)

CAN YOU SEE THE SMILE ON MY FACE...?


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## slaterbj (Dec 7, 2005)

Starting Jan 1 at 12.01 I will be ordering a pair....and celebrating the new year.


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

I assume both these mids and subs will be able to be purchase via the SHOP tab of the forum?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Yep... I have someone working on the shop functionality so it'll be ready to go Jan.


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

not really clear on the whole pre order thingy, but would that $50 be the only costs, plus shipping, or is it like $50 plus putting your name in the box, and then having to pay the other 25 later or what.....just some clarification, as i never buy things preorder, but i really wanna get ahold of these


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

price is without shipping...


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

npdang said:


> Will also be putting my W18NX's and Dayton reference HF 12" up for sale if anyone was interested.


i'm interested in the 12HF


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

You pay $50 each and shipping for the order. You wait 45-60 days for the order to be built, then it's shipped to you. That's it.


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

npdang said:


> You pay $50 each and shipping for the order. You wait 45-60 days for the order to be built, then it's shipped to you. That's it.


Ah ok cool thats not too bad at all. 

Looks like i need to scrape up like $250 or so  Damn you Dang.


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

npdang im in please let me know when where and how to get them ill be waiting for these.... thanks


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## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

So can you do a comparison to the G18's yet?  

Can you guarantee they can be EQ'd to get flat up to 4K? 

4 ohm?

power handling?


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Really intrested as well, if i can get something that is that much better than the CA18's and the same price basically (Preorder price) then i'm gonna go for it......and clean to 4k is awesome. Just afraid i'm gonna need to reinforce my doors with even more deadener lol.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Updated with in-car measurements. Check the topic thread. Also compared against the Seas w18nx... my favorite mid/bass.

After more listening and testing, tearing my car apart and playing with all the settings I will say the Seas Excel W18NX has clearly better bass overall. It's cleaner, and a good deal more output, as well as just sounding nicer without any eq. Highpassed at 80hz... they're roughly about the same, but I'd still give a slight nod to the Excel. I'd say mid/bass wise, you're looking at about the same kind of output and response as the DD 6.5" midbass. So if you like the mid/bass of the L18RNX/P, CA18RNX, etc. don't expect MORE output with this driver. If you like the DD's... then you're really gonna like this one.

Midrange, I'd have to say this driver is outstanding off-axis. It easily rivaled the clarity of the W18NX, which is pretty hard to do. W18NX had some roughness up top that Imo required a lowpass (raspy sounding?), but other than that I had a very hard time distinguishing between the two. If you liked the Scan-Speak revelator midrange wise but are looking for more detail this would be a pretty good driver for you.


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## vladd (Dec 9, 2005)

npdang said:


> Updated with in-car measurements. Check the topic thread. Also compared against the Seas w18nx... my favorite mid/bass.
> 
> After more listening and testing, tearing my car apart and playing with all the settings I will say the Seas Excel W18NX has clearly better bass overall. It's cleaner, and a good deal more output, as well as just sounding nicer without any eq. Highpassed at 80hz... they're roughly about the same, but I'd still give a slight nod to the Excel. I'd say mid/bass wise, you're looking at about the same kind of output and response as the DD 6.5" midbass. So if you like the mid/bass of the L18RNX/P, CA18RNX, etc. don't expect MORE output with this driver. If you like the DD's... then you're really gonna like this one.
> 
> Midrange, I'd have to say this driver is outstanding off-axis. It easily rivaled the clarity of the W18NX, which is pretty hard to do. W18NX had some roughness up top that Imo required a lowpass (raspy sounding?), but other than that I had a very hard time distinguishing between the two. If you liked the Scan-Speak revelator midrange wise but are looking for more detail this would be a pretty good driver for you.


i just joined up, been watching the thread. The driver looks awesome, i'm in if i can figure a way to fit it.


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

npdang said:


> Updated with in-car measurements. Check the topic thread. Also compared against the Seas w18nx... my favorite mid/bass.
> 
> After more listening and testing, tearing my car apart and playing with all the settings I will say the Seas Excel W18NX has clearly better bass overall. It's cleaner, and a good deal more output, as well as just sounding nicer without any eq. Highpassed at 80hz... they're roughly about the same, but I'd still give a slight nod to the Excel. I'd say mid/bass wise, you're looking at about the same kind of output and response as the DD 6.5" midbass. So if you like the mid/bass of the L18RNX/P, CA18RNX, etc. don't expect MORE output with this driver. If you like the DD's... then you're really gonna like this one.
> 
> Midrange, I'd have to say this driver is outstanding off-axis. It easily rivaled the clarity of the W18NX, which is pretty hard to do. W18NX had some roughness up top that Imo required a lowpass (raspy sounding?), but other than that I had a very hard time distinguishing between the two. If you liked the Scan-Speak revelator midrange wise but are looking for more detail this would be a pretty good driver for you.


W18 is a midbass monster, I admit. I am not sure about the midrange..

Lookin at the specs of your driver, looks like I am getting 3 pairs for home..
LMK. Will send paypal your way.


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## Master D (Aug 18, 2005)

Dual, 

how does the W18 fare in midrange in your opinion? I ask because I just got a pair and have no clue what they sound like as I'm only installing them next month.....  Are you refering to the W18E or NX?


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## 95Legend (Jun 24, 2005)

What a great price. 

Will these take over the Dayton Reference mids as the best bang for the buck mids? 


I know I shouldn't be buying anything because my funding is low, but gee..the price is too good to pass up!


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

---


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

Master D said:


> Dual,
> 
> how does the W18 fare in midrange in your opinion? I ask because I just got a pair and have no clue what they sound like as I'm only installing them next month.....  Are you refering to the W18E or NX?


I heard the NX in my buddy's car as midbass duty. Amazing.
Need to hear them as midbass/midrange, though.. Sorry not much of a help


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## Excelsior (Dec 8, 2005)

Hey dang

do you have any distortion graphs etc for this 7"?

the low end seems to be significantly helped by your car... very nice 

I'd really like to see how this thing does fully tested for distortion without being in a car environment


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## Master D (Aug 18, 2005)

> dual700 Quote:
> Originally Posted by Master D
> Dual,
> 
> ...


LOL, no prob. I am glad you feel that the midbass is good. Hoping that the midrange is on par as well.


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## 95Legend (Jun 24, 2005)

Rbsarve said:


> Love most of the specs, but why such a heavy cone? Just to get it into the quite small boxes?


There are perks and consequences in having a heavier cone.

With a heavier cone, you usually lower the Fs, but at the same time you sacrifice some sensitivity.

The adire audio brahma, RE XXX, JL W7, etc subs have heavy cone assembly. They have tremendous low end, but they are a bit power hungry. On the contrary, the IDMAX can get damn loud off of little power, but the low end output isn't quite like the JL W7, etc. 

Low sensitivity shouldn't be much of an issue now since we have amps that are able to put out a lot of power.


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## Excelsior (Dec 8, 2005)

95Legend said:


> Low sensitivity shouldn't be much of an issue now since we have amps that are able to put out a lot of power.



the difference between 90db/w and 93db/w is like adding a extra subwoofer to your system!!!!

and as you know... low end isn't a really major concern when you consider these benefits and since there are ways to lower Fs with a lighter cone

Also Max SPL can NOT be assumed to be the same with a lower efficency design vs. a higher efficency one... this is generally not true at all

the difference to your electrical system between 90db/w and 93db/w is like having a charging system with 2000w being drawn from it and 1000w being drawn from another with = SPL outputs

efficency is massively important... and the difference between 87db/w and 93db/w is again... exactly what you think it is.... having a single sub... that's as loud as four subs of the same size..... or having a 4000w draw on your electrical system vs. a 1000w draw

it's staggering when you think about this.... especially when 99% of the "audio cars" out there can't even support 1600w RMS


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## 95Legend (Jun 24, 2005)

But most of the time, those SPL ratings are peak ratings. We all know that the sensitivity will change with frequency. 

You have have a mid that is rated for 90db and another one rated for 93db. We wouldn't be able to tell which one is louder at what frequency unless we have a frequency response of each driver


You have Mid A with a rating of 90db @ 30hz

vs.

Mid B with a rating of 93db @ 100hz

If we cover up the frequency where the peak SPL is, then we would all think mid B is always louder, which is not true. 


Usually drivers with high moving mass will have more emphasis on low end, with a lower efficiency rating at a lower frequency. (Hoffman Iron law applies)

maybe npdang can enlighten us on the heavier cone issue 



I hope someone knows what I'm taking about.


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## Excelsior (Dec 8, 2005)

95Legend said:


> But most of the time, those SPL ratings are peak ratings. We all know that the sensitivity will change with frequency.


true efficency is a measured parameter... anything irregular within the FR shouldn't be included

it doesn't change with frequency it's a constant efficency... because output is lost you can only blame this on all the other forces at work

what you have is a generally rising FR... but that DOESN"T mean that this sounds good... in fact this generally sounds BAD  especially in the home environment

I don't think that's the case here with this speaker... but I'm just pointing out the obvious fact that generally most speakers aren't measured for "SPL at a given frequency"

most speakers T/S parameters are tested and this gives the efficency... it really is that simple

many speakers have nice 6-10db resonances around 1khz etc and this shouldn't even matter when measuring Sensitivity

any company who measures Peak Sensitivity should be shot... there's no way around it that efficency is always king  just generally power handling suffers

if you've ever heard a 99db/w midrange vs. a 95db/w midrange you would never deny that the one is vastly louder within it's bandwith

generally with subs... especially car subs (the only place things like box size REALLY matter vs. home) you'd need to get pushing 100db/w area with a 15" to see any real significant low end drop sealed (considering cabin gain) and ported you really won't see any... ever

difference between a 100db/w sub vs. a 81db/w sub like SS RLS???

Bwhahahahah


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## 95Legend (Jun 24, 2005)

Notice I said sensitivity, not efficiency 


You're right though. I like to think efficiency in terms of percentage, while sensitivity I think in decibels 


But my point is, once you have amps that are able to put out over 250w at 4ohm (qaa4250; aka my new toy ), it should be enough to drive most speakers to the point where it becomes unbearable to listen to 


I think these DIYMA mids will get loud enough for most "SQ'ers" with the modest power.


I think I'll get a pair for midbass duty, and then move my 6.5" lotus ref. towards midrange


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## rutger j (Aug 1, 2005)

Rbsarve said:


> Love most of the specs, but why such a heavy cone? Just to get it into the quite small boxes?
> 
> I might have to talk kindly to dhl about the shipping of 12 or so of these...


YES....please do that  

I know "someone" that would love to test them if they make the journey over the "pond"  

Best Wishes
Rutger

Btw, congrats for a baby girl Rbsarve...


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## mk1982 (Jul 3, 2005)

sorry to clarify, whats the mounting depth please ?


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## mojako (May 27, 2005)

i'd like to order.. how will i pay if i don't have paypal?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Credit card, check, money order...


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## vladd (Dec 9, 2005)

ok well since these have a low sensitivity, what kind of power will get them "loud enough" and how much power will they take nicely? are we going to have any headroom as to how much they need vs how much they can take? i'd like to stay away from pushing them to their limits often


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## mojako (May 27, 2005)

Credit Card? do you accept AMEX?

nice!!!


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## mht_v10 (Dec 10, 2005)

I need 2 of the mid, 1 sub and 2 tweeters 

where do I send the payment to ?


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

kappa546 said:


> i'm interested in the 12HF


what size box did you have it in?


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Okay, someone asked this on another forum, so I was intrigued myself...if its a 7" driver, why is the diameter only 171mm and not 180mm?? Thank you...


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

You can call it a 6.7" driver if that makes you happier


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

I am not bothered by it, just wondering...thanks


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## vladd (Dec 9, 2005)

*cough* 6.7322834645669291338582677165354

not to nitpick but if this is an odd size wouldn't that add to the price? Price sounds good to me though, not complaining. ah actually i don't care if its a 49.2445 inch driver if it sounds good and i can fit it in the door, for the price i'm in


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## OgreDave (Jul 13, 2005)

Actually it's not an odd size at all .. it sounds like a 6.5S. (Oversized 6.5, the 'official' size of my old Maxima)


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## Beau (Oct 8, 2005)

OK - not to be too dull, but how would I go about placing a pre-sale order?


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

Beau said:


> OK - not to be too dull, but how would I go about placing a pre-sale order?


I think this was already discussed in either this thread or the one for the DIY 12"


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## mk1982 (Jul 3, 2005)

npdang can you please post a technical drawing like you have for the tweeter, just for dimensions ..


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## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

npdang can you please tell me if these speakers would fit into a 1990 Yugo Cabrio and if so, what angle will they be imaged at? I need to calculate the wind velocity too of the sonic pulses so could you please provide technical data on the magentic fields present at -83.43188 longitude, 42.35853 latitude, otherwise I don't think I'll be buying from you, thanks.

Yeeesh, you people are friggin' demanding, give him a break.

-aaron


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## pervo (Aug 1, 2005)

^nice ride


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## 95Legend (Jun 24, 2005)

ArcL100 said:


> npdang can you please tell me if these speakers would fit into a 1990 Yugo Cabrio and if so, what angle will they be imaged at? I need to calculate the wind velocity too of the sonic pulses so could you please provide technical data on the magentic fields present at -83.43188 longitude, 42.35853 latitude, otherwise I don't think I'll be buying from you, thanks.



Yes they will fit. It should be angled at 25.246 degrees for optimal output. +/- 0.005 degrees error is acceptable in this case since you're in the -83.4x longitudinal area. 42.35x degrees latitude might present a problem for you because of the imfamous reflection you'll deal with. This causes the soundwave to bounce back at -83.3x longitude, cancelling any wave you have formed. I know it hurts to see it, but i'm in it with you


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## nickgonzo (Dec 22, 2005)

cheapboy aka car audio viagra

I think I'm in..


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## cotdt (Oct 3, 2005)

npdang the 7" doesn't fit into my new car. how bout a 125mm midrange for us?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

No plans on a 125mm as of yet. I've sent the 6.5" driver around to a few folks for feedback... and looks like it will need to be reworked a bit. Almost everyone loved the top end extension and clarity in their doors, but were put off by the "average" bass performance. Keep in mind alot of these guys are hardcore Seas G18/L18RNX/P users


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## JoshTX84 (Dec 11, 2005)

So how much of a delay will there be past Jan. 1st for ordering??


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

npdang said:


> No plans on a 125mm as of yet. I've sent the 6.5" driver around to a few folks for feedback... and looks like it will need to be reworked a bit. Almost everyone loved the top end extension and clarity in their doors, but were put off by the "average" bass performance. Keep in mind alot of these guys are hardcore Seas G18/L18RNX/P users



ahhh Dang I didnt get a pair lol   

so whats the new production/for order date?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Could be awhile... want to make sure it's something that I would personally want to use... not just hype.

If you want to try the protos I can sendem your way when they are done here.


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

npdang said:


> Could be awhile... want to make sure it's something that I would personally want to use... not just hype.
> 
> If you want to try the protos I can sendem your way when they are done here.


hey buddy, Im always down to try a set of speaks if you want to send them my way.


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## mk1982 (Jul 3, 2005)

you're doing a great job npdang, if these dont fit in my doors .. ill buy a pair for rearfill cause they look hot  !


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## vladd (Dec 9, 2005)

you should send a set to dave in blacksburg so i can hear them, we're having a get together last of january, would have a couple vehicles to hear them in too. Of course i'm volunteering their vehicles without their consent, but I doubt my car will be ready by then.


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

are there any of these still available for order or did i miss out. i have been away for a while and have not been able to really be on the comp very much here.... npdang please let me know thanks also on the subs as well.....


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

not out yet, unfortunately, dang is retooling them


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## cotdt (Oct 3, 2005)

imma be the first to install my npdang speaker system in my car. npdang 1" tweets, npdang 7" mids, and npdang 12" subs! so is there an npdang logo on these drivers?


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Yea we need a logo, i vote on his mugshot stamped on the front of the cone.....in gold leaf, or at least platinum embroidering  then mabey the Audiobahn people will be intrested in them because of the bling on it


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## nickgonzo (Dec 22, 2005)

LOL


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## Cris (Sep 28, 2005)

npdang for president!


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

kappa546 for vice president!


hmmm or how about secretary of audio?


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## Sephiroth619 (Jun 24, 2005)

If only there were npdang horns.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Going to revise this driver for significantly lower qts, and lower fs. Efficiency will increase a good amount, and voice coil config will be dual 4 ohm for those that want to RDO to change the qts. I'm also excited to hear the peak-peak throw will be dramatically increased from before.


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## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

sounds like some great improvements there  

I can't wait.


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

How much would the new driver have as far as p-p throw? And i expect that it should have overall more midbass output with the added throw correct? So it will possibly have more midbass than the Seas 18 lines?


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## Cris (Sep 28, 2005)

goddamn.. can you make the diyma 7" do my taxes, too?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

demon2091tb said:


> How much would the new driver have as far as p-p throw? And i expect that it should have overall more midbass output with the added throw correct? So it will possibly have more midbass than the Seas 18 lines?


Will be more bass than the Seas RNX series or W18NX. Midrange quality is very good as well. No more having to sacrifice one for the other.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

are they going to x-over pretty high like before?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

No crossover needed. You can just bring your tweeter in at 3-4khz.


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## JoshTX84 (Dec 11, 2005)

WOW!!! How long until I can own a pair???


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## mk1982 (Jul 3, 2005)

npdang, are you saying a passive 18db crossover can be used for the tweeters with the diyma 7" ? eg. 25nfa, rs28a, diyma ...


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

man i cant wait much longer !!! im so anxious to get my hands on these..... we'll have to start being like a little kid..... are they ready yet??..... are they ready yet..... lol j/k
but seriously any idea of a time frame??? thanks


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## cotdt (Oct 3, 2005)

Very cool. So crossoverless npdang 7" with a tweeter (w/ a lone capacitor) and no need to deal with complicated active/passive crossovers. would this work well? what tweeter would work really well with the npdang 7"?

Without those stupid crossovers we can fit an extra 12" sub!


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## mk1982 (Jul 3, 2005)

im assuming the diyma 7" will only require a highpass crossover for the lower frequencies (available on 90% of amps) but no lowpassis that right ? and a tweeter to go with this set up will require the usual steep 12/18/24db crossover


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

any word on when these will be available???


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## dozy_production (Mar 22, 2006)

any update on these guys?


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2006)

Are they cold yet? What about now? Are they cold yet? What about now?

cheers,

AJ


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

They may not require a highpass, depending on the music and listening level. As with all speakers, there's already a natural 2nd order rolloff ~65hz from the driver... although with cabin gain you can expect sensitivity almost flat to 20hz.

I hope to have an update sometime this month.


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## vladd (Dec 9, 2005)

Not to nag you but is price going to be about the same as projected before? Also are we talking like 2-3 months before product or more in the 6mon + range?


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## Beau (Oct 8, 2005)

Are you able to provide an update?


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## jrouter76 (Dec 21, 2005)

ArcL100 said:


> 80Hz AKA subs required
> 
> The real question is, can xbl^2 sound good?
> 
> -aaron


isn`t this the same technology used by Adire?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

As soon as I hear from Adire I'll post an update.


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## ATB (Aug 30, 2005)

npdang said:


> As soon as I hear from Adire I'll post an update.


Yikes...based on the delays on the Mpyre 65ms that may take a while


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## Fixtion (Aug 25, 2006)

over 1.5 years later . . . no updates. :[

-fixtion


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Good old days!


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## Lumadar (Sep 28, 2007)

lol... back from the dead!
*On a side note, I did some searching and found nothing else on the DIYMA 7.... I take it they never happened? I would sure be interested in a pair...


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## ZoNtO (Sep 20, 2005)

I concur, especially since I missed out on other XBL^2 drivers and have always wanted to try one out...


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

ZoNtO said:


> I concur, especially since I missed out on other XBL^2 drivers and have always wanted to try one out...


look here:

http://www.creativesound.ca/

for the SDX7


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## ///Audience (Jan 31, 2007)

did anything ever go through with the DIYMA 2" either?? i remember the drama in the HAT thread between Scott and NP about the different drivers, but never really heard about it being sold.


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## sundownz (Apr 13, 2007)

Anyone making a relatively shallow XBL^2 8" driver? I'm shopping around for a midbass for my 2006 VW GTI  I want to step it up and use an 8" midbass this time around.


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## Infinity (Jun 28, 2005)

sundownz said:


> Anyone making a relatively shallow XBL^2 8" driver? I'm shopping around for a midbass for my 2006 VW GTI  I want to step it up and use an 8" midbass this time around.


Call a buildhouse and set one up. If it has decent enough top end for a 2 way setup, I'll order a pair for myself.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

npdang said:


> They may not require a highpass, depending on the music and listening level. As with all speakers, there's already a natural 2nd order rolloff ~65hz from the driver... although with cabin gain you can expect sensitivity almost flat to 20hz.
> 
> I hope to have an update sometime this month.


Drool !


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## MadMaxSE-L (Oct 19, 2006)

WTF? I read through this whole thread and realzed it was a few years old:blush: . I was getting excited about getting some DIYMA 6 3/4' ers to go in my Maxima...

What the hell happened???

-Matt


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## caohyde (Sep 27, 2005)

i've been waiting a couple of years for this as well. i hope this comes out, i'd grab me a couple of pairs.


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

my guess, there are drivers equal or close to the quality of drivers that these were supposed to be and the price that these would end up costing would not be able to compete with brands that are already established.


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## MadMaxSE-L (Oct 19, 2006)

internecine said:


> my guess, there are drivers equal or close to the quality of drivers that these were supposed to be and the price that these would end up costing would not be able to compete with brands that are already established.


But the origional price quoted for these _was_ comparable to other, similar drivers. I'd buy a set in a heartbeat if they were available...

-Matt


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Adire went out of business guys... before that, they stopped responding to me. Not all xbl^2 drivers are the same, similar to how all underhung or overhung motors are not the same.

With the tweeters and mids, communication was extremely difficult at best, and I decided not to risk it.

I wouldn't have a problem selling a couple hundred pairs of anything, but with significant minimum purchase quantities and tooling costs for the kind of drivers we would like to see (and at the price we want to see), poor communication with alot of vendors for small orders, I just don't want to bother.


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## GenPac (Oct 29, 2007)

We don't blame you NP, communication is key for any business decision.


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## MadMaxSE-L (Oct 19, 2006)

GenPac said:


> We don't blame you NP, communication is key for any business decision.


Absolutely; there's no way I'd feel comfortable enough to start something up like this without clear and uninterrupted communication with a potential business associate. Too much risk involved...

I still would've liked to have had a pair though 

-Matt


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

npdang said:


> Adire went out of business guys... before that, they stopped responding to me. Not all xbl^2 drivers are the same, similar to how all underhung or overhung motors are not the same.
> 
> With the tweeters and mids, communication was extremely difficult at best, and I decided not to risk it.
> 
> I wouldn't have a problem selling a couple hundred pairs of anything, but with significant minimum purchase quantities and tooling costs for the kind of drivers we would like to see (and at the price we want to see), poor communication with alot of vendors for small orders, I just don't want to bother.


This is the story of my life too. I have interviewed, in person, at least 12 build-houses. Adire was one of the twelve. I waited four months for my first prototype of the L3 midrange, and it was, how shall I say, disappointed to say the least as far as the first effort. It was in a two-prong GM-style basket!  The communication sucked, and the product sucked. I have found though, with time, the best build houses find you, verses you trying to find them. The Clarus build house knocked my socks off...I guess my expectations were so low at that point that when they came in and got me first prototypes within a three weeks of my design criteria, I was shocked. Clarus took significantly less time to design, test, and produce than Legatia...because of the build-houses' efforts. My DHL bill sucked with the continual movement of product for testing back and forth, but it was worth it.

Scott


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## chongl (Jan 8, 2008)

So these drivers will most likely not be produced then?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

chongl said:


> So these drivers will most likely not be produced then?


Thats what the mans saying. Im sure if anything comes around, we will be aware of it.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Thanks for sharing Scott. Always good to know you're not alone 

I've always wanted to build something with Tymphany, especially with their new line of Illuminator drivers... but I don't think anyone would want to pay those prices


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Ah yes, Tymphany is another company I have spent a great deal of time with sitting with at CES. Their first question for me, when I said I was curious about their capabilities, was "What is you Dunn and Bradstreet number and how many times a year will you be ordering more than 5,000 units per driver?" I nearly fell out of my chair. 

Scott


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Hahaha that sounds familiar.

I was so happy when Seas said only 300pcs minimum, but they won't even wind another voice coil for you so you're stuck with their stock catalog.


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