# First time horns



## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

OK, so with my Caddy totaled, I picked up a 99 Honda Passport as a temp replacement. The more I drive the thing, the more I'm thinking I'll hang on to it for a while. Body is a bit beat up, but the interior is pretty damn clean, and it's in good shape mechanically. 

Good level dash bottom, no center console to speak of, and it's an auto, with no ebrake or hood popper in the way.no behind dash "stuff" hanging below the bottom dash line. So I'm thinking this would make for a good first timer horn install. 

And the more I dig through this section, the more I seem to be lost. 

So I'll just ask for a recommendation. 

I want to keep it a 2 way front. I'm not afraid to cut some( or a lot) of metal on this thing, I've got a total of $350 into buying the thing, and it's a body on frame car. 

So 10in mids will be doable, running them ib either in kicks or firewall. I just don't want to mess with trying to cram anything into the doors. 

So what I need is a good idea of what horn/mid combo I should be looking at. I would like something tried and true, good for 80hz and up. (Assuming 63 would be too much to ask for out of HE mids). Power will be from a collection of old school MTX thunders (trio of 2300's, I've got a 240, and will fill in the blanks as needed) processing will likely be a DSP unit, I'm looking real hard at the cadence, or if jl gets theirs out soon with Android programming. 

I would like to keep the front end around $700, keeping in mind that there is a chance that any expensive exotic mids may be exposed to the elements. So a less expensive option that is readily replaceable would be considered....

So...what dobyou guys suggest?


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Well your budget is m ore than reasonable for a pair of HLCD and midbass. I suggest at least a 6.5 and going 8" is even better. 

For the HLCD complete new sets are $350 a pair including drivers horns and mounting straps.

Midbass will range from $35 each to $200+ each. There are many good drivers to choose frim but of whats currently available I steer you towards the Beyma 8G40 in 4 ohms.

You should be able to get all of the above to your door for under $700.


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

Thank you Mr. Stevens. Given that is your recommendation, it's what I'll do. 

But one quick question...." What's currently avaliable"..if I wasn't planning to start the install untill mid-late summer, is there a possibility of there being some....newcomers ..to the market?


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

truckerfte said:


> Thank you Mr. Stevens. Given that is your recommendation, it's what I'll do.
> 
> But one quick question...." What's currently avaliable"..if I wasn't planning to start the install untill mid-late summer, is there a possibility of there being some....newcomers ..to the market?


I dont see the HLCD changing during that time but its likely that you will have midbass options.


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

And that was the answer I was looking for. Thank you.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Hey @truckerfte, you'd pointed me to this thread, so here's my (random) recommendations

Eric recommended the 8G40. I've never heard it so I can't comment. If you're putting the woofer in the firewall, you might consider the B&C 8NDL51, it might be easier to cram in there. The Beyma is ferrite, the B&C is neo, take a look at the spec sheet to see how deep they are and how they fit.

In my 2001 Accord I was able to just *barely* fit the 8NDL51 under the brake pedal, without affecting the travel.

I think DSP is a must so I'd get a MiniDSP. Invaluable for EQ and time alignment. You can't run horn loaded compression drivers without EQ.

I'm not 110% sure, but I *think* that you can get the 8NDL51 for about half the normal price if you order it from QSC : http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/hlcd/162700-cheap-good-midrange.html

If anyone takes them up on it, take some pics and let me know if it's the same driver. I purchased some neodymium eights from Carvin and they were definitely OEM B&C drivers, so QSC may be doing the same thing

I don't know what compression drivers Eric is using. I like the Celestion compression drivers, but they may not allow for a low xover point like the B&Cs.


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

Fwiw, on the QscProduct website it lists the driver as "Product Description
WOOFER,8",NEO,,B&C 8NX-8,8ohm,(AD-S82H)"
Sure looks like the NDA, but I agree with running a tester on it to be sure.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

danno14 said:


> Fwiw, on the QscProduct website it lists the driver as "Product Description
> WOOFER,8",NEO,,B&C 8NX-8,8ohm,(AD-S82H)"
> Sure looks like the NDA, but I agree with running a tester on it to be sure.


My "8NDL51s" aren't labeled 8NDL51s either. I bought mine from the old basslist forum, and the person who sold it to me said they were prototypes. I looked on B&C's site to see if there's an "8NX" but there's not.

I'm tempted to buy a couple from QSC just to see what they are, but I have way too many speakers already


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## Lou Frasier2 (Jul 17, 2012)

Patrick Bateman said:


> My "8NDL51s" aren't labeled 8NDL51s either. I bought mine from the old basslist forum, and the person who sold it to me said they were prototypes. I looked on B&C's site to see if there's an "8NX" but there's not.
> 
> I'm tempted to buy a couple from QSC just to see what they are, but I have way too many speakers already


take that back,you can never have too many speakers.:laugh:


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Lou Frasier2 said:


> take that back,you can never have too many speakers.:laugh:


Thanks for talking me down from the ledge. I appreciate it!

My psychosis forced me to buy the QSC woofers, to find out if they're actually B&C 8NDL51s at a bargain basement price.



















Here's some pics of my "8NDL51s" versus the QSC "8NX". Note that my 8NDL51s were sold to me by someone who said they were "prototypes" and I purchased them before the 8NDL51 was widely available. (No woofer has lasted longer in my arsenal, I've been using these for about sixteen years!)

I measured the Thiele Small of my old woofers, my minty fresh woofers that QSC delivered today, and the published specs of the B&C 8NDL51. You decide:

Product Specifications
Nominal Diameter: 8"5.4
Power Handling: (RMS)200 Watts
Power Handling: (max)400 Watts
Impedance: 8 ohms
Frequency Response: 65 to 3,000 Hz
Sensitivity: 94 dB 1W/1m
Voice Coil Diameter: 2"
Thiele-Small Parameters
Resonant Frequency (Fs): 78.7 / 88 / 66 Hz
DC Resistance (Re): 5.5 / 5.4 / 5.3 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le): 0.22 / 0.2 / 0.5 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms): 2.95 / 7.5 / 3.6
Electromagnetic Q (Qes): 0.64 / 0.67 / 0.41
Total Q (Qts): 0.52 / 0.61 / 0.37
Efficiency bandwidth product: 246Hz / 263Hz / 322Hz
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas): 0.5 ft.³
BL Product (BL): 12.4 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms): 28g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)7 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)220 cm²


As far as I can see, these QSC "8NX" drivers and my "8NDL51s" are the same driver. Cosmetically, they're exactly the same, except for a very slight different in a pattern of imprints on the frame. The TS params of the two drivers are nearly identical, except for QMS, which is much higher. I'm guessing that my "8NDL51s" saw their QMS go down over 15 years.

One thing I noticed, which might explain the strange naming, is that the QSC drivers don't come in a box. They send them to you wrapped in a sheet of cardboard. So it's possible that QSC bought a pile of 8NDL51s, asked B&C how they could get the price down, and one way they did it was to ship without a box. The name change is likely because they don't want to have these inexpensive drivers competing head-to-head with the 8NDL51. Costco does the same thing with televisions; they get their own SKUs on televisions so that Best Buy and Target don't complain when they sell TVs for less than the competition. One place that I thought that QSC might skimp is by eliminating the shorting rings that are in the 8NDL51. But you can see from the inductance spec that the shorting ring is there.


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## Lou Frasier2 (Jul 17, 2012)

im gonna check out their site to see if there are any midrange/midbass that i might be interested in


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

I ended up going with the qsc versions, waiting for Eric's drivers to come out. 

It was short lived, I ended up sticking them I'm a Buick, which got totaled before I got to tuning. 

Lol, can't comment on Sq, but with neo comps on minus, and a pair if ib 18's, it was loud as ****, lol


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

Eric's 8s and 6s are out


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

Horsemanwill said:


> Eric's 8s and 6s are out


Yes they are, lol.

I've just got to decide which car to stuff it all in. Ive got a Ram qc, civic, corolla, galant, or a mustang, and am suffering from indecision. That and a lack of motivation.

Most likely it'll be the galant, but not before I convert it to a 3.5 with a 5 speed. But I'm thinking it will be the end of the year before I even consider it. 

I do like the idea of the 2 ohm versions though. With horns at 8, a single 4 channel is going to have a good power ratio.


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## DeLander (Feb 23, 2006)

Does anyone have a link to the site where you can buy individual drivers? When I search “QSC”, I get a site that only shows speaker systems.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

https://parts.qsc.com/search?cid=2902


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## DeLander (Feb 23, 2006)

Thank you.


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## robi17 (Aug 11, 2018)

Welcome for your thanks


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

robi17 said:


> Welcome for your thanks


And thank YOU for at last being a polite chatbot, though NOT very fluent... LOL


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

They always find me...No matter how hard I run. Btw, the horns might actually make into a car at some point...


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