# What brands will you NOT run?



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

I'm not talking about odd ball flea market gear that no one has heard of, but brands that are somewhat known. They don't even have to suck, just brands you refuse to use.

Here's my list, and it's quite long:
1. Sony
2. Kenwood
3. Panasonic
4. Lanzar
5. Rockford Fosgate
6. Lightning Audio
7. Blaupunkt
8. MMATS
9. Alphasonic
10. Audiobling
11. Power Acoustik
12. Profile
13. Crunch
14. Hifonics (later stuff, my first amp was a Series VII Pluto)
15. MA Audio
16. Pyle Driver
17. Volfenhag 
18. Earthquake (except really old stuff)
19. Bazooka
20. Cadence
21. Dual
22. JVC
23. Pyramid
24. Boss
25. Visonic
26. Performance Teknique
27. Jensen
28. American Bass
29. Planet Audio
30. Soundstorm
31. Rockwood
32. Legacy 
33. Cliff Designs
34. Kole Audio
35. Scosche
36. Aiwa
37. Audiovox

And probably a number of others I forgot.


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## bhg41088 (Nov 5, 2006)

I won't run anything but Dual.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

bhg41088 said:


> I won't run anything but Dual.


Did I include Dual? If so, that was a mistake, I love Dual gear.


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

I have specific equipment that I wont run, but I dont discriminate the brand. As history has shown, every brand has a slump which their equipment isnt all that great. brands can improve or even just make one great product while the rest suck.


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## Xander (Mar 20, 2007)

Wow...any brands you do use? 

I stay away from...

Sony
Lightning Audio
Monster Cables (or any other ridiculously overpriced cables)

I'm too poor to avoid many other brands, haha


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

I guess I don't "refuse" to use any brand. If something fits whatever need I have, I research it and decide whether to make the purchase.


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## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

DLS, Brax, Genesis or Sinfoni because they're ****ing stupid expensive 

-aaron


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## bbaccord (Mar 7, 2007)

ArcL100 said:


> DLS, Brax, Genesis or Sinfoni because they're ****ing stupid expensive
> 
> -aaron


lol


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Don't forget Kenford!


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

HondAudio said:


> Don't forget Kenford!


WHAT?????????

I didn't forget them, they don't belong on this list. They're the shiz!


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Its funny how after a while in this business you just _know_ which brands to stay away from. Even if a new one pops up a quick look at it and you'll quickly retreat. I don't see eD on your list though and I know some people have real hatred towards them and some other online-only brands. I am neutral since I have not owned a single piece of their equipment but have come close to buying their stuff on numerous occasions only to pick something else.

For me, it isn't what I won't buy, it is what I will buy. I only stick to proven companies and proven gear. Sure I pay a little more for DLS Ultimate amps but I know I will be running them for 10+ years. The PPI amp I bought back in 2000 is still running strong in my wife's car. When you buy good brands you make an investment. When you buy cheap brands, you might as well keep the gear in the car when you sell it. It would be more hassle to try to unload some of the crap brands listed above. Its not that they are absolutely horrible, in fact some are quite decent for their price...but they just aren't something you want to keep.


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## thatvan (Aug 29, 2006)

I have a RoadMaster HU going to a RatShack booster for the front and a Rockwood amp for my Pyle sub. Oh and I still listen to a lot of Mc Hammer on it!


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

thatvan said:


> I have a RoadMaster HU going to a RatShack booster for the front and a Rockwood amp for my Pyle sub. Oh and I still listen to a lot of Mc Hammer on it!



Sweet!


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

It's has always been Rockford. When I first got into car audio the local Rockford dealer was a major dick. Hated them ever since.

Funny Sony is on a couple lists. Current Sony sucks. Definitely not the company they once were. I would take a XES or CDX-C90/X4000 any day.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

eD isn't on my list because they aren't ruled out yet. Their forum pissed me off a while back for deleting a post of mine for no reason...but they appear to make some decent gear. I say appear, because I've never used or heard any of it.

My list is subject to change at any moment though.


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

to many to list lol


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

Just adire, they stole money from me.


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

internecine said:


> Just adire, they stole money from me.


I guess I could add them too. Had a Shiva back in the day that lasted about a day. Wouldn't fix it.


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## agentk98 (Oct 31, 2006)

Guess i was lucky with my Mark III. Though the horror stories with their Brahmas was really bad.

I've hated MTX and Earthquake. Funny how the situation they were introduced to me makes me hate them, not the equipment itself as this was circa 1996.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Your list is big but correct. I keep holding out hope that Lanzar would return to the glory days of the early to mid 90's. I can remember seeing their show cars then at IASCA promoting the brand, awsome. My list of companies that could make a come back and I would be happy.
Sony-ES Stuff
Rockford-Would take awhile to gain back my dollar though
Lanzar-Same
Crunch-they where great when they first came out, can remeber seeing the first set of subs to arrive at the shop. Can rember the days of my toyota low rider truck with 4 crunch 12's.

Companies with big names and glory days on the verge of sliding to the list for me are: 
Soundstream but they are really trying to make a strong comeback, quick.
PPI is steal decent but come on turn it around.

Brand I will never own even if given to me: Hifonics after twice I saw two different show cars catch fire. Help! Help!Someone hurry get the fire extiguisher, its on fire, its on fire.


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

Focal.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

Adire - because once they have your money you can pretty much go to hell as far as they're concerned.

Kicker - I don't have a particular reason, it just seems that whenever I am in the market for new gear they are always on the list but they never make the cut.

MTX - See Kicker above ^ Also, for making that gawd-awful ridiculous 22" sub.

JVC - Owned a deck from them once, & it was the biggest piece of junk I can remember.

Kenwood - I especially dislike just about every piece of equipment I have ever encountered from this brand. I just don't like the way any of it sounds, sorry.

Mb Quart - Never liked the sound of 'em - their tweeters always seem way too harsh for me.

Tru - They seem to have a very poor business reputation for a such a small "high-end" niche company. I never owned any of their stuff, but I have read more than enough posts from competitiors & industry types that apparently know more about it than me to be convined that they aren't all they are cracked up to be.

eD - I have seriously considered buying their products on several occasions, but there have just been too many stories about bad business practices by their ownership for me to fork over the cash. Live by the sword (internet), die by the sword...

And just about anything else with more flash than substance...


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

Tru Tech - due to the whole politics behind the Zelos/Abyss connection there whole attidtude of denying any connection when in fact most of then where made by Abyss/Zelos with some mods by Tru. I wouldn't have cared if they hadn't tried to deny the connection in the first place.

Pioneer - HU's mainly all there HU's are cheap and nasty feeling (except the P9 etc..) and most of there HU's are notorious for the same faults, earth tracks and ribbon cable in particular.

All the great old skool brands that have gone nasty (aka Sony) I'll never be keen on buying either.

Whats wrong with Blaupunkt not everything they realise is great, but they have and still do make some decent equipment. I love my DLS 3 ways aswell I paid about 70% of retail for mine, I ordered the next line down but they didn't have any in country so they gave me the next line up for the same price plus my shop gave me a discount.


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

Genxx said:


> Your list is big but correct. I keep holding out hope that Lanzar would return to the glory days of the early to mid 90's. I can remember seeing their show cars then at IASCA promoting the brand, awsome. My list of companies that could make a come back and I would be happy.
> Sony-ES Stuff
> Rockford-Would take awhile to gain back my dollar though
> Lanzar-Same
> ...


regarding Lanzar, their vibe lines, and other lines are still ****ty, but the optidrive line is still a damn good amp. I have ran pretty much all the optidrive lines up to about 1.5 years ago. They have all been solid and overbuilt. They have never ran hot, even on a hot 80% humidity day with the amps stuff inside and no ventilation. 
I wouldn't count out the whole brand due to the one or two few lines. Someone mentioned that its not so much as the brand persay, but more of a specific product within the brand.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

I agree the Opti line has always been the pinnacle at Lanzar. I just miss the days when you could see alot of people running Lanzar. One of the overall best sounding cars I have ever heard had 2x15 Lanzar subs in it and it was great SPL and SQ. I can remeber when I would have put them up against anyone US Amps, Zapco, ARC. They where once cutting edge then faded without glory IMHO.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I believe every maker has a "diamond in the rough" I had a Pyramid amp 18 years ago and put it thru hell, it's still running strong and being abused by it's bazillionth owner. There's a place in the market for everything and if someone tells me to try something I will, why not, what's to lose? 

That being said. I have never liked MB Quart speakers, left a sour taste in my mouth, especially after a local retailer dropped a/d/s to go to quart (night and day!) They hurt my ears too!

JL pissed me off once after I simlply inquired as to how the 300/4 switched impedance modes, a question that could have been answered in 5 seconds, maybe with a yes or no turned into a week long e-mail volley. No technical knowledge and when they sense that the customer may know something they play possum instead of transferring the question to someone who knows the skinny. THEN finding that they replace amps instead of repairing them made me wonder if they have any people there other than prototypers that know how to use a soldering iron.

Rockford, They hired me and then I said "give me a clothing allowance or a week to move my stuff" they said no go.... Fuk Em. I had just graduated, been thru many interviews with RF and was on "vacation" in Arizona, why not look for a job? I don't like their newer products AT ALL, who needs a fake hex head screw on a woofer? Jebsus! Give me quality or give me bling.

ID horns, or any horn for that matter, I think a search could warrant the answer to that.

Any car amp with a tube in it, unless it's a CRT for an oscilloscope, same reason as above.

And headunit with only blue illumination or non defeatable moving images. Blue destroys your night vision and I don't need a display image moving around that I have seen a zillion times, my kid even hates it.

Esoteric cables, especially ones with ominous bumps in them.

Expensive power wire (welding cable works fine for me)

I think that's about it, but I know I can come up with more 

Chad


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Hell yeah, blue lighting is the suck. I will never run an HU that only has blue lighting. Stupid assed moving images suck just as much if not more. 
I also hate equipment with fake screws, flames, amps with light up text or images on the top and retarded funky speaker grilles. I hate stiffening capacitors as well.

Hey, it's Friday morning here at work. I hate everything until about 5:00PM, then I start liking things again.


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## fej (Feb 8, 2006)

Pretty much everything on the OP's list. Some electronics from Panasonic are solid performers, but I would not run them in my car.

I won't run kicker generally speaking as well (maybe subs), or JVC, or Kenwood. MB Quart speakers fry my ears. Blau I have never liked either .. too plain while trying to be different at the same time. 

Can't remember if the OP mentioned Sony but I will never run anything from Sony either. That company needs to stick to what it knows and whoever they get to make their stuff either does not get enough money to make it, or doesn't know crap either.

Felt like expanding so I am going to add MTX, and pretty much modern versions of PPI, US Amps, Xtant etc etc. All of the moved offshore built on the cheap car audio stuff where the performance and quality took a nose dive. I guess I am just kind of old school


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

fej said:


> Pretty much everything on the OP's list. Some electronics from Panasonic are solid performers, but I would not run them in my car.
> 
> I won't run kicker generally speaking as well (maybe subs), or JVC, or Kenwood. MB Quart speakers fry my ears. Blau I have never liked either .. too plain while trying to be different at the same time.
> 
> Can't remember if the OP mentioned Sony but I will never run anything from Sony either. That company needs to stick to what it knows and whoever they get to make their stuff either does not get enough money to make it, or doesn't know crap either.



Oh believe me, Sony's on the list....#1 in fact! 

I didn't mention Kicker or MTX, but I'm pretty sure I won't run their gear either.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I never had a problem with Sony head units with the exception of obscure operating procedures, but no more obscure than the 9855 

I could even stop the moovy flashy stuff. I used a CDX-F7705X for a wile and it was not too bad.

The CD player in my shop is a Sony car unit that's as old as dirt, works great and has not shut off in 5 years with the exception of power failures. Was installed in a caddy prior to it's life as a shop unit.

I think if Sony stepped up to the plate they could make a killer unit.

Chad


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## mr tibbs (Dec 18, 2005)

I'm your ed guy. I will never, NEVER run anything ed. It has nothing to do with the gear and everything to do with the owner. That kid would screw over his own grandmother for $1.50. I have ZERO respect for him and he will never see 1 penny from me.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

mr tibbs said:


> I'm your ed guy. I will never, NEVER run anything ed. It has nothing to do with the gear and everything to do with the owner. That kid would screw over his own grandmother for $1.50. I have ZERO respect for him and he will never see 1 penny from me.


x2

Three brands that will never be in my car are ED, CDT and Directed.


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## mr tibbs (Dec 18, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> x2
> 
> Three brands that will never be in my car are ED, CDT and Directed.


I don't know the CDT story, gotta linky?


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Anything in Darrell Issa's claws (Directed, PPI, Orion, a/d/s/, etc.)

Dynaudio - underperforming across the board, and massively overpriced. Great stuff if you're building a system in 1986, but the world has moved on and they haven't.

Morel - knockoffs of Dynaudio drivers that are obsolete even by Dyn standards, and built in a barbaric country that enforces policies tantamount to Apartheid in lands it illegally occupies

TangBand (at least for now) - many of their drivers look interesting on paper, but the unit-unit consistency on the ones I've played with have been lacking to say the least. Still, it's been a few years since I played with their wares, and when indications are nearly universal that they've tightened up their QC I may look at them if they have something that fits my needs


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Wow, never would have thought this thread could have opened the door for a left-wing political statement...I was wrong.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

89grand said:


> 9. Alphasonic


Wasn't it Zed-built for a short while?


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## jearhart (Jul 28, 2006)

in my opionion ED delivers decent products for a very good price, but i do not like the means by which they make there products cheap so they will never get any of my money.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

MarkZ said:


> Wasn't it Zed-built for a short while?



I'm wondering the duration the OP has been in the hobby, some of the makers listed USED to build killer gear like Lanzar and AlphasoniK, but have fallen to has-been status and cheap production in the quest for a quick buck.

Chad


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Not only those, but Sony and Kenwood used to make some killer stuff here and there. Some of the older ES line and PS-series head units are still sought after today, nearly 15 years later. I'd also place RF in that category (sorry). Not only their amps that some people still drool over, but also their Punch and Power series speakers from 10+ years ago. They even made pretty good head units (not sure if they still do), although I seem to recall seeing somewhere they were Denon knockoffs. And of course, Jensen, Pyramid, Blaupunkt, and Pyle were some of the major players back even further.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

The power series subs were killer, no frills, I liked!


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

The list is what I would not run today. Not really talking about what some companies USED to make. Besides, I said the brands didn't necessarily have to suck, just brands you don't like. 

I've been into car audio for over 20 years BTW.


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

DS-21 said:


> Morel - knockoffs of Dynaudio drivers that are obsolete even by Dyn standards, and built in a barbaric country that enforces policies tantamount to Apartheid in lands it illegally occupies


Wow. Just wow.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

The only brands that I WOULD use from that list is Rockford and MMATS.


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## 00poop6x (Jan 20, 2007)

GlasSman said:


> The only brands that I WOULD use from that list is Rockford and MMATS.


True to the MMATS.

Pretty sure I will not be running these...


Directed(Polk included)
Kicker 
MTX
Harman Kardon(JBL, Inf...)
Alpine
Audiopipe
Panasonic
Anaba Group stuff
Titanium Power
Fusion
DIYMA
Elemental Designs
Pyramid
Bose
Wet Sounds
JL
Maxxsonics (et. al)
Microsoft
Cobra
Almani
Dynamat
RD Audio
Fosgate stuff (et. al)
Treo
Diamond Audio

There's more.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

you have a pretty interesting list there *00poop6x * but everyone has their own opinion  Are these from experience or just reading what other people have said about them?


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## 00poop6x (Jan 20, 2007)

azngotskills said:


> you have a pretty interesting list there *00poop6x * but everyone has their own opinion  Are these from experience or just reading what other people have said about them?




Experience on different levels for each brand, mostly in depth. Like others, being in the business for years...you find yourself just not interested in some company's products and their pattern year after year. But times can change. 

Two brands I have no experience are DIYMA and Titanium Power.

As far as DIYMA, I wanted to get some reactions. :blush: 

Titanium Power...business standpoint.

*EDIT* for grammar


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

I second that. That is a very interesting list 00poop6X. I could not lump JL in my list as I have ran alot of there stuff over there years and everything had performed flawless and had great SQ. Diamond Audio also ran the Hex stuff and still have it, always served me well. Polk just recently got bought out by directed so I have to give them a minute to see if they go down hill. I hope not IMO they have great home stuff and their stuff car audio stuff is better than alot of others(SR6500 and MOMO but hate the whole MOMO design thing).


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## 00poop6x (Jan 20, 2007)

Genxx said:


> I second that. That is a very interesting list 00poop6X. I could not lump JL in my list as I have ran alot of there stuff over there years and everything had performed flawless and had great SQ. Diamond Audio also ran the Hex stuff and still have it, always served me well. Polk just recently got bought out by directed so I have to give them a minute to see if they go down hill. I hope not IMO they have great home stuff and their stuff car audio stuff is better than alot of others(SR6500 and MOMO but hate the whole MOMO design thing).



JL is also a business standpoint. A little bitter.

Diamond, good but usually ends up replaced by something else I find. Same with Polk.

Offtopic...
Genxx, how do you like that Arc FD12? What is the enclosure it's in?


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

00poop6x said:


> There's more.


Boston Acoustics?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

89grand said:


> The list is what I would not run today. Not really talking about what some companies USED to make. Besides, I said the brands didn't necessarily have to suck, just brands you don't like.
> 
> I've been into car audio for over 20 years BTW.


yeah but you would have old skool Alphasonik, and... that's... still.... Alphasonik  


But I know what you mean man  

Chad


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

00poop6x said:


> JL is also a business standpoint. A little bitter.
> 
> Diamond, good but usually ends up replaced by something else I find. Same with Polk.
> 
> ...


I agree started with JL, then Diamond and now Rainbow.

I am still in the building process. Not even sure right now if I can get it to fit. If and when I do get it in I will give review. The looks and build quality is top notch and they are great to look at. I like all the ARC stuff but especailly the FD stuff, it really caught my eye.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

The older sony amps in my opinion were great amps. Sure they fell off but if you can find a sony amp similar to these lines, you have a great under rated low distortion amp.










I had a list like this full of unreasearched biases against many brands but since I tried Blaupunk VA amps, I would cross them off the list because theyre quality.

I think all those brands listed has at least one or two good products from now or the past so I don't discriminate. Except for the flea market brands.

And ds-21, why dont you go **** a faraday ring and keep your unnecessary ******** to youself.


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## 00poop6x (Jan 20, 2007)

CMR22 said:


> Boston Acoustics?



They made me do it...


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## rekd0514 (Sep 24, 2006)

I want to know why so many are against the MTX equipment. They maybe aren't the best equipment you can get out there as far as performance, but they are definately a quality amp at the least and rated fairly on power. They will last a long time and can be had for used for descent prices. I just want to see how people automatically cross them off their lists? What is your reasoning behind it? I have owned one and their is A LOT! worse stuff out there.


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## Vestax (Aug 16, 2005)

Brands I will not run...

Arc Audio
Rainbow
Brax
Genesis
Morel
Dynaudio
Alpine
Pioneer
Tru Technology
DLS
Sinfoni
Zapco
Image Dynamics
Focal
Audison
JL Audio
Mcintosh
Denon
Eclipse
Digital Designs

... because I can't afford them. :blush:


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## Ron G. (Feb 8, 2007)

Sorry guys, but this thread is absolutely ridiculous ...


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Ron G. said:


> Sorry guys, but this thread is absolutely ridiculous ...


You certainly don't have to participate, and considering how you feel about the thread, I highly recommend you don't any further than you already have.


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## 1greek4u (Dec 16, 2006)

I'll run anything that sounds good


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

1greek4u said:


> I'll run anything that sounds good


me 2.


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## bbaccord (Mar 7, 2007)

rekd0514 said:


> I want to know why so many are against the MTX equipment. They maybe aren't the best equipment you can get out there as far as performance, but they are definately a quality amp at the least and rated fairly on power. They will last a long time and can be had for used for descent prices. I just want to see how people automatically cross them off their lists? What is your reasoning behind it? I have owned one and their is A LOT! worse stuff out there.


I have used MTX amp's in the past for quite a few years. I never had any problems with them besides the gain pot's making noise when turned (which has happened with many "high end" brands too). I have also installed MANY MTX amps and not one has ever come back with an issue. Their speakers and subs.......well they kinda suck. But they make some nice amps.

Also, I have tried several affordable head units, and have always felt that the Kenwood excelon line of HU's (and the top models at that) were really solid units. They are often overlooked because most of their other equipment sucks, but the higher end HU's have nice 24 bit Burr Brown or Wolfson dac's, dta, low output impedance preouts and a whole bunch of other features for a very affordable price.


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## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

Ya according to tests I've seen in the one Russian mag, the MTX amps measure pretty damn well in terms of s/n, channel seperation, distortion, etc.

-aaron


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

bbaccord said:


> I have used MTX amp's in the past for quite a few years. I never had any problems with them besides the gain pot's making noise when turned (which has happened with many "high end" brands too). I have also installed MANY MTX amps and not one has ever come back with an issue. Their speakers and subs.......well they kinda suck. But they make some nice amps.
> 
> Also, I have tried several affordable head units, and have always felt that the Kenwood excelon line of HU's (and the top models at that) were really solid units. They are often overlooked because most of their other equipment sucks, but the higher end HU's have nice 24 bit Burr Brown or Wolfson dac's, dta, low output impedance preouts and a whole bunch of other features for a very affordable price.


I agree. Ive done almost all vw installs with Kenwood exelon units because they match the lighting perfect which most people like. Unless Im doing anactive setup that is. They dont have all the bells and whistles of an 880prs but if someone is running some components and subs and dont really wanna fiddle around with settings, theyre great units. Very simple interface to use, sound great, good preamp outs and nice displays.

And the old mtx thunder amps like these were IMO some of the most solid amps built. They last forever and put out serious power.










I have one running my sub now in my in-between set up.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

KRACO RULES!!!!11

j/k I wouldn't touch that. Literally, I wouldn't even touch the package... it makes me feel _dirty._


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Whatever happened to Macrom? They used to make mid-to-high end stuff (~11 years ago), and they had that guy in the ridiculous hat in all their ads.


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## jrouter76 (Dec 21, 2005)

89grand said:


> The list is what I would not run today. Not really talking about what some companies USED to make. Besides, I said the brands didn't necessarily have to suck, just brands you don't like.
> 
> I've been into car audio for over 20 years BTW.


what is wrong w2ith American Bass? those are very good amps.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

mr tibbs said:


> I don't know the CDT story, gotta linky?


When I first got into the hobby I emailed them to see which of their lines would be best for my goals, budget, bla bla bla. I wish I saved some of the comments the guy made, they were classic. A brief summary: CDT speakers are the greatest thing since bikini wax and everything else is bad.


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

HondAudio said:


> Whatever happened to Macrom? They used to make mid-to-high end stuff (~11 years ago), and they had that guy in the ridiculous hat in all their ads.


Still around;
http://www.macrom.it/


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jrouter76 said:


> what is wrong w2ith American Bass? those are very good amps.



I said in the original post that the list doesn't have to be products that you think suck, just stuff you won't run for any given reason.

I know nothing about American Bass. I won't run their gear because their name is stupid, that's all. I know nothing about them otherwise. I won't run any gear with the word "bass" in their name.


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## jrouter76 (Dec 21, 2005)

89grand said:


> I said in the original post that the list doesn't have to be products that you think suck, just stuff you won't run for any given reason.
> 
> I know nothing about American Bass. I won't run their gear because their name is stupid, that's all. I know nothing about them otherwise. I won't run any gear with the word "bass" in their name.


ok that s cool.


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## petern23 (Oct 9, 2006)

If I found what I wanted for the price, I would run all high-end brands that 95% of car audio listeners would say "What's that?"

Most RF-JL-Kenwood "car audio enthusiasts" around here have never even heard of Image Dynamics.


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## POLKAT (Jan 10, 2007)

One of the main reasons I like this forum is that to me, its very theme is to not look at "brands". Don't follow the crowds and their "boner of the month" gear. I believe that if you are a true believer in DIYMA, you don't turn your nose up to any brand (_almost_ any brand  ).


Nothing is better to me than getting great sound for cheap; finding those "diamonds in the rough".


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

petern23 said:


> If I found what I wanted for the price, I would run all high-end brands that 95% of car audio listeners would say "What's that?"
> 
> Most RF-JL-Kenwood "car audio enthusiasts" around here have never even heard of Image Dynamics.


That's odd. I would consider them well advertised like the other big manufactures you have listed-RF-JL-Kenwood. Image Dynamics I do not consider them that exclusive. I would agree that 95% of car audio listeners have not heard of Dayton, Scan-Speak, Seas, ARC, Zapco, DLS, Morel, Vifa, Rainbow, DIYAMA, Audison, Sinfoni, CDT(just to name a few) and even the highend stuff from the big boys(Alpine Type X, POLK SR).IMHO


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## tdgesq (Apr 16, 2006)

I am very tolerant of most low-end equipment, so long as it works. I mean, there have to be different price points for different people. But there is one brand that I must for the good of all put on the list - and that would be:

Optimus (Radio Shack)

I foolishly decided to pick up one of their electronic x-overs when I was in a financial pinch. Over the period of about six months, all of the switches went dirty. But of course it happened slowly, so that it was difficult to identify why my sound had degraded to such an extent. When I discovered the problem, I took it out, spit on it, and then sprayed it down with a garden hose so that no poor unsuspecing passerby would take it out of the dumpster and try to use it.


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## ws6 beat (Jul 14, 2005)

I had an RF450S power amp running two AE asassins at 2 ohm bridged all day in my 1997 ws6 trans am with no problems thats what 900watts from a 450 watt amp. Did i forget to say how hard it hits.


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

I've always been pretty flexible about what i'll run. right now i'm running a mix of JVC,ED,and Lanzar Opti(last of the zed mades) and with a total system power rating of 400 watts i surprise the hell out of alot people. 

I've run jvc decks off and on for well over a decade and have yet to have one fail. they aren't the best out there, but i haven't needed much in the way of internal DSP.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

I'm open to trying most things outside of low grade/flea market crap. Its not about public sentiment for me, but rather judging from my own personal experience. For instance I'll be playing with some new school US Amps soon, a DIYMA sub, even some of the new TRU Technology amplifiers.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

JL Audio --- sounds like crap to me , except for thier w6v2 line of subs ...
Rockford amps --- noisy trash.
MTX amps ---- cold and lifeless.
Eclipse head units ---- haven't made a good one in 10 years.
Zapco amps --- WAAAAAAAY overpriced , when Arc amps are as good or better for WAAAAY less.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Ron G. said:


> Sorry guys, but this thread is absolutely ridiculous ...


x2

I nominate this for dumbest thread of the year. Most of you people are saying "I wouldn't run brand X" for absolutely no reason at all.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Genxx said:


> I would agree that 95% of car audio listeners have not heard of Dayton, Scan-Speak, Seas, ARC, Zapco, DLS, Morel, Vifa, Rainbow, DIYAMA, Audison, Sinfoni, CDT(just to name a few) and even the highend stuff from the big boys(Alpine Type X, POLK SR).IMHO


Oh, I bet most of them have. With the exception of just a couple of those (DIYMA and possibly DLS), those are all very popular manufacturers.


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## mr tibbs (Dec 18, 2005)

MarkZ said:


> x2
> 
> I nominate this for dumbest thread of the year. Most of you people are saying "I wouldn't run brand X" for absolutely no reason at all.


I feel like I made my point perfectly clear.


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## PaulD (Nov 16, 2006)

I may have the old CDT emails abo0ut the HD 52's that I have. The dude got ONE look at the kick install and told me I needed to move them to the doors so they would sound better .... wouldn't even answer my original question. I had to (professionally) tell him that he was obviously not up on latest car stereo theory.


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## Bluto Blutarsky (Apr 1, 2007)

It is all about marketing and labels, and you are all victims of it. Want some proof? How about the Alpine CD player that I took the cover off only to reveal that it was mostly a Sony CDX R5,Didn't Sony invent the format, or was I high? I owned a CDXR7 and have been loyal since. I am repairing a GM 5L40E automatic transmission at work right now,wanna guess what kind of car? did you say BMW? cause it was. If you ask someone that owns a BMW,most will tell you that GM sucks. Its everywhere and everything.Maybe we should use our ears more and our eyes and our pre conceived opinions less?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Bluto Blutarsky said:


> It is all about marketing and labels, and you are all victims of it. Want some proof? How about the Alpine CD player that I took the cover off only to reveal that it was mostly a Sony CDX R5,Didn't Sony invent the format, or was I high? I owned a CDXR7 and have been loyal since. I am repairing a GM 5L40E automatic transmission at work right now,wanna guess what kind of car? did you say BMW? cause it was. If you ask someone that owns a BMW,most will tell you that GM sucks. Its everywhere and everything.Maybe we should use our ears more and our eyes and our pre conceived opinions less?


Maybe you should get your DIYMA weight up before you come on the forum spouting crap.


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## 00poop6x (Jan 20, 2007)

A lot of individuals here seem to forget that the list does not immediately translate into bad experience or personal opinion of crap unworthy product. It may just be distaste in the way the brand name sounds, unappealing aesthetics, dollar:value, recognizing self fulfillment and satisfication based on 'low-mid-high-end' names, bitter experiences, business related, etc. This is in no way to be used as a calibre of quality or 'if the product is good' gauge.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

bassfromspace said:


> Maybe you should get your DIYMA weight up before you come on the forum spouting crap.


Ok, then I'll use my DIYMA weight to ditto what he said.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

00poop6x said:


> A lot of individuals here seem to forget that the list does not immediately translate into bad experience or personal opinion of crap unworthy product. It may just be distaste in the way the brand name sounds, unappealing aesthetics, dollar:value, recognizing self fulfillment and satisfication based on 'low-mid-high-end' names, bitter experiences, business related, etc. This is in no way to be used as a calibre of quality or 'if the product is good' gauge.


I agree 100%. This is just everyones opinion. Its just a list of what you personnally like for your own reasons. Not to compare brand x and y against one another. Thats what reviews and comparisons are for. I might happen to like brand X but that does mean I have to like everything they make. Does not even mean I would pick brand x of y, alot depends on the cash flow at the time. If you like your brand x then thats cool its your opinion.


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

ive yet to see buttkicker anywhere on here. ofcourse im pretty sure im the only one who has any experience with the buttkicker blowout amp from PE and I highly recommend it for a budget sub amp


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## phatredpt (Feb 22, 2006)

bobditts said:


> ive yet to see buttkicker anywhere on here. ofcourse im pretty sure im the only one who has any experience with the buttkicker blowout amp from PE and I highly recommend it for a budget sub amp


I am interested in this one as a matter of fact!  

Has anyone done any measurements as far as power to tell if it lives up to it's rating?

I am looking for a budget amp for an Alchemy RX SQ 12 dual 4 which is rated at 500w, I am just wondering if this may not be a good option?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Bluto Blutarsky said:


> It is all about marketing and labels, and you are all victims of it. Want some proof? How about the Alpine CD player that I took the cover off only to reveal that it was mostly a Sony CDX R5,Didn't Sony invent the format, or was I high? I owned a CDXR7 and have been loyal since.


Sure as ****! It has a transport, a laser, a spinny thingy, some green flat stuff with black thingys on it, and all that metal around the outside... It's got to be the same!

   

Chad


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## minitruck_freq (Mar 27, 2005)

Bluto Blutarsky said:


> It is all about marketing and labels, and you are all victims of it. Want some proof? How about the Alpine CD player that I took the cover off only to reveal that it was mostly a Sony CDX R5,Didn't Sony invent the format, or was I high? I owned a CDXR7 and have been loyal since. I am repairing a GM 5L40E automatic transmission at work right now,wanna guess what kind of car? did you say BMW? cause it was. If you ask someone that owns a BMW,most will tell you that GM sucks. Its everywhere and everything.Maybe we should use our ears more and our eyes and our pre conceived opinions less?



 can you say......****tard?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I have a hard time believing Alpine and Sony use the same parts. Alpines are the only headunits that did not overheat on me in the desert area. 3 Sonys, stock Honda unit, and an Eclipse cd7000 easily overheated. I am a dedicated Alpine headunit user because the capability to deal with harsh, everyday environment is a great achievement for this company.

I reccomend against Kicker because: they are all bling: SX amplifiers where some of the worst units that I've used, wire covers would not screw back after 2 days of use, loud fans, bad sq.

Third and final: Audiobahn. The flame Q sub was the farthest from a speaker that I've tested. Even at minimal volumes it provoked headaches for me. Their amps are not reliable imo, fans go out they overheat etc.


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## Bluto Blutarsky (Apr 1, 2007)

minitruck_freq said:


> can you say......****tard?


Does anyone want to rebut anything I have said or do you just go straight to name calling?


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## Bluto Blutarsky (Apr 1, 2007)

chad said:


> Sure as ****! It has a transport, a laser, a spinny thingy, some green flat stuff with black thingys on it, and all that metal around the outside... It's got to be the same!
> 
> 
> 
> Chad


Yea, well that and it said Sony on it.


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## phatredpt (Feb 22, 2006)

Bluto Blutarsky said:


> Does anyone want to rebut anything I have said or do you just go straight to name calling?


I think it had more to do with you ragging on everyone in this thread with your first post on the boards.
Most of the guys here do tear into the equipment, and more than that they USE it and speak from personal experience.
I value the opinions of those that have actual hands on and are willing to take the time to review equipment..... subjectively...
Including yourself !


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## Luca_Bratzi (Mar 9, 2007)

Bluto Blutarsky said:


> Does anyone want to rebut anything I have said or do you just go straight to name calling?


Yes, see below.



Bluto Blutarsky said:


> If you ask someone that owns a BMW,most will tell you that GM sucks.


I happen to own a BMW. 1996 328i with 105K miles on it. I love my car. You really want to know what I think of GM cars? I think they make fine cars. Nothing any more wong with them compared to any other make of cars as far as I'm concerned. So If I drive a BMW that would mean that any other car company Sucks"?  What does this mis-directed analogy have to do with your claim that Alpine is Sony? Please elaborate on more of your research on this theory...

(Oh yeah, and please stay on topic and leave your bad analogies out)


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## Bluto Blutarsky (Apr 1, 2007)

I am not saying alpine is sony. It was the first generation of car cd players and sony had invented the format. I owned a sony cdxr7 which was a player and a tuner with two chassis. There was also a cdxr5 that was just a player without a tuner.I aquired an alpine player without a tuner and took the lid off to find that it was mostly sony parts.They also were the only two on the market at the time.1985-86.My point is it could be the same stuff with a different name and people would talk smack on one and praise the other.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Bluto Blutarsky said:


> Yea, well that and it said Sony on it.


What? The transport? Laser assembly? A chip or two? I have mororola finals in most of my pro amps, they are not branded motorola.

What...... specifically said Sony?

Chad


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## PaulD (Nov 16, 2006)

perhaps some of you are not old enough to remember the units Bluto is talking about. They were first generation, like 1985. The Alpine 5900 = Sony CDX-5 and the Alpine 7900 = CDX-R7, only real difference was the front face plate. We opened up a few of the Alpines back in the day ..... the laser pickup, and several other IC's had a big SONY stamped on them.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Right, but what did the main PCB say and were the electronics indeed the same. Sony still makes transports and control chips for many makers, it's one of their gigs.

Chad


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

phatredpt said:


> I think it had more to do with you ragging on everyone in this thread with your first post on the boards.
> Most of the guys here do tear into the equipment, and more than that they USE it and speak from personal experience.


I'm sorry, but I'm with Bluto on this one. Even though I wouldn't agree with him that the head units are the same because the components say Sony inside, he brings up a valid point that people need to stop judging brands by whatever ridiculous metric they're using. And I just don't understand why everyone went on the attack. I think it's because his post count was equal to 1. I frequently say some of the same stuff he said, but I guess since my post count is high no one calls me a ****tard.

You want to tout "tearing into equipment" and "speaking from personal experience". Sure, lots of people do that. BUT THEY USUALLY HAVE NO FRIGGING IDEA WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT. Most of you people taking a holier than thou attitude in this thread don't know half as much as you think you do. "Hands on" people are only useful if they're able to draw valid conclusions from their observations, but from what I've seen, the vast majority of conclusions that "hands on" people make are purely post hoc. Unfortunately, that doesn't fly when we're after _truth_ instead of trying to form opinions on nonsense because someone doesn't know what parameters to be looking at.

Seriously, guys, lay off Bluto. Even though I don't necessarily agree with the conclusions he's made from his "hands on" experience, it's certainly no worse than a dozen other stupid posts I've read in this thread.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> I have a hard time believing Alpine and Sony use the same parts. Alpines are the only headunits that did not overheat on me in the desert area. 3 Sonys, stock Honda unit, and an Eclipse cd7000 easily overheated. I am a dedicated Alpine headunit user because the capability to deal with harsh, everyday environment is a great achievement for this company.


Yet some Alpine units were notorious for running hot. Go figure.



> I reccomend against Kicker because: they are all bling: SX amplifiers where some of the worst units that I've used, wire covers would not screw back after 2 days of use, loud fans, bad sq.


Would you say the same about their ZR series amplifiers? Why condemn a whole company based on a single product line?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> Yet some Alpine units were notorious for running hot. Go figure.
> 
> 
> 
> Would you say the same about their ZR series amplifiers? Why condemn a whole company based on a single product line?


I owned the 9835 and now I own the w200. Out of the 7 headunits that I've used these were the only one not to start skipping through tracks when it got a little hot. Maybe it's because I only used these two Alpines and they were fairly top of the line, but so where the Eclipse and Sonys I've used. So...given a top of the line choice Alpine has proven its worth to me. I'm sure not all Alpines are great stuff.

I condemn Sony, Audiobahn and Kicker because they have a few company trends that I dislike: all bling with very little attention to quality and sonic purity. Sony puts a great deal of effort in designing headunit faceplates and using fancy screens but the processing and mostly reliability of these units is among the worst. Audiobahn chromes most of their stuff but reliability and quality of sound is lacking quite a bit. Kicker sells amps with MSRP in the 1500s with flashy blue heatsinks and displays but the sound can be comparable with amps around 100 if that. A lot of their specs were far off when they finally went the CEA way. It's like all talk and nothing to show for it. I don't mind bling if everything else is covered, but these companies seem to start with bling and fail miserably in covering the rest.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> I owned the 9835 and now I own the w200. Out of the 7 headunits that I've used these were the only one not to start skipping through tracks when it got a little hot. Maybe it's because I only used these two Alpines and they were fairly top of the line, but so where the Eclipse and Sonys I've used. So...given a top of the line choice Alpine has proven its worth to me. I'm sure not all Alpines are great stuff.


I'm not knocking Alpine. I'm just saying that if you look around you'll find a lot of people reporting that their Alpines get too hot. Eclipse had an awful problem years back where their head units were generating all kinds of heat and drawing a ton of current (for a HU). Sony's been all over the map. They've made some of the most coveted head units, and then they've made some pretty poor ones. The same holds true for most companies. Look at Nakamichi. People love the CD700 (?). But you'll also find that the CD35z had horrible issues with the transports making the failure rate extremely high.

Basically, this whole thread is based on a faulty premise. People are knocking entire companies because of one or two units they've owned in the past. There's so much wrong with that I can't even begin to address it. Now if someone has a legitimate beef with a company's business practices then that's another story. Or if a company has put out nothing but crap throughout their whole existence, ok. But that's just not true for most of the companies listed in this thread.



> I condemn Sony, Audiobahn and Kicker because they have a few company trends that I dislike: all bling with very little attention to quality and sonic purity. It's the opposite of what I look for in car audio.


I still don't understand why Kicker's on your list. Maybe I'm not up on the latest car audio product lines, but I don't know what's bling about them. And even if they are gaudy and overpriced, I wouldn't say they're not paying attention to "quality and sonic purity". I have an el cheapo Kicker on my bench that I use for measurements, and benched it has a completely flat frequency response out to 20kHz (save for a small 0.5dB 40Hz hump from the bass boost) and the noise and distortion content was lower than the measurement hardware. I'd personally call that sonically pure. I've also owned and installed plenty of the ZR-series Kicker amps in my day to find that they were a very good amplifier. The fact that Kicker buys ad space in car audio magazines doesn't factor into my perception of the product.



> Sony puts a great deal of effort in designing headunit faceplates and using fancy screens but the processing and mostly reliability of these units is among the worst.


Again, I'll point to Eclipse and Nakamichi as companies who have historically put out products that I'd wager are far less reliable than Sony's, yet people consider them "high end". Thing is, I won't consider all Eclipse and all Nakamichi head units as unreliable, because each one should be judged on its own merit. But that's what you appear to be doing with Sony. No offense intended, but to label all of Sony as unreliable is just ignorant. I'd bet that there are a lot of Sony head units out there that have exhibited pretty good durability as a line.

But that's the problem with this thread in general. People are trying to classify certain brands in their entirety as crap. Not only is that factually incorrect, but it also goes against the very nature of DIY. Many DIYers find gems among cheap product lines. In the world of DIY speakers, look at Tangband, Dayton, and Vifa as examples. You can find some really good speakers in each of those brands, and some really BAD ones too.


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## jeffrey (Jan 3, 2007)

Anyone seen an Alphine head-unit before? The look exactly like the real thing.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Uhhhh....MarkZ, this thread was never intended to be a list of what people should NOT run or what equipment brands suck. I started it asking people what equipment they won't run for whatever reason. I have a lot of companies on my list that I simply choose not to run, but that doesn't necessarily mean they actually suck.

I'm not sure why you keep insisting this thread is anything else. I'm also a little unclear why you keep posting in it, then adding how retarded the thread is. 

It was meant to be fun...just roll with it.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

89grand said:


> Uhhhh....this thread was never intended to be a list of what people should NOT run or what equipment brands suck. I started it asking people what equipment they won't run for whatever reason. I have a lot of companies on my list that I simply choose not to run, but that doesn't necessarily mean they actually suck.
> 
> I'm not sure why you keep insisting this thread is anything else. I'm also a little unclear why you keep posting in it, then adding how retarded the thread is.
> 
> It was meant to be fun...just roll it.


Because with the exception of those who listed a brand because of business practices or aesthetics, people are mostly citing what they perceive as a lack of quality. And it usually has no basis in fact. "I once owned a Kenwood amp and it broke" is one of the dumbest reasons I've ever read to essentially boycott an entire company.

I also posted because a new user came in here and made a reasonable point about something and people decided to give him the ol' "shut up, newbie!" response. I hate to think that that's what DIYMA is becoming. And, well, since I'm kinda a loudmouth, I decided to offer my two cents about that kind of attitude. People are free to take it or leave it.


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## Ron G. (Feb 8, 2007)

89grand said:


> Uhhhh....MarkZ, this thread was never intended to be a list of what people should NOT run or what equipment brands suck. I started it asking people what equipment they won't run for whatever reason.


That may be the case, but the implication was that overall lack quality was the overiding criteria, and a thinly veiled one at best. 



89grand said:


> It was meant to be fun...just roll with it.


I don't get that ? Inviting the indirect, and direct, trashing of numerous company product lines for vague reasons in a public forum is fun ?


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## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

I'll run certain products from just about any company, if it fits the budget I am working with.

I did a sub install for a kid using audiobahn subs and a boss amp. With the cost of the box we made and pyle wiring, he was out $200 and had a really nice setup for the price. You can argue that audibahn sucks, but for the $30 a piece that we bought the subs for with a warranty that allowed them to be exchanged locally, then you can't beat it. Sure, it's not gonna win awards of any sort, but it got him hooked into audio.

The problem with a thread like this, it portrays a serious elitist attitude. And, it makes many people feel they have to spend 10 grand to get a good sounding system. 

My very first system, I obtained from trading my bicycle with a guy, and some parts of the system were already in the car. I did my best to get it all in that car.

Ended up with 2 orion xtr 10" in a bandpass (first bandpass box I built, and it looked more like a cannon, people specially loved the textured marble paint job on it ) also had 2 fosgate power 12" ('91) and 2 bumper twelves also. (which sounded much better once I blew the hornloaded tweeters that came in the box)

So yes, I had 4 twelves and 2 tens in a 87 accord hatchback. Not too mention the pair of 6x9's, 6.5 comps, 5.25 comps, and 4" mids to go along with it. 

by the time I was done, there was 24 speakers in that car. I eventually blew the seal around the windshield.

It was loud as hell, and now days, I am sure I would think sounded like ass, but I could afford it, I loved it, and it got me hooked. Not too mention how much I learned. (like the fact I had it all running off a 12ga home wire for my power) But, it seems now, I pay more for one amp, that I did that whole system.

We need to get more people into audio, and show them how to get good results within their budget. Bashing cheap brands for ANY reason, is not the way to do it.


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> "I once owned a Kenwood amp and it broke" is one of the dumbest reasons I've ever read to essentially boycott an entire company.


Dumber than "I won't buy their products because I don't like the name of the company"?


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Ron G. said:


> That may be the case, but the implication was that overall lack quality was the overiding criteria, and a thinly veiled one at best.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get that ? Inviting the indirect, and direct, trashing of numerous company product lines for vague reasons in a public forum is fun ?


I could have swore numerous pages back I recommended you not post in this thread anymore since it bothers you so much. 

BTW, it must be fun, this thread is 11 pages long. I'm sure you've never generated quite that much excitement.


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## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

*shrug* If you bought x brand car and it broke down constantly, wouldn't that make you a little hesitant to buy another one - while if you had tremendous luck with another make, you'd be more inclined to purchase another.

There are no absolutes in life, but there certainly are some valid generalizations or majority's.

When it comes to spending money, I believe most people are apt to side with what's proven or has a track record, instead of a company that's mostly put out lower-then-average-at-a-given-price-point except a few gems. Others take risks.

It certainly isn't the first time I've ever read misinformation (ie all xxxx brand is crap) on this or any other forum MarkZ. Just let it go - let people do their own research and draw their own conclusions. However, all the reviews and hearsay don't amount to personal experience with a product and brand.

I stil stand by my list of brands I wouldn't run 

-aaron


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Bluto Blutarsky said:


> It is all about marketing and labels, and you are all victims of it.


Mr. Blutarsky, you are a genius. Nowthen, when's the toga party!!


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## tbreihan (Sep 30, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> I condemn Sony, Audiobahn and Kicker because they have a few company trends that I dislike: all bling with very little attention to quality and sonic purity. Sony puts a great deal of effort in designing headunit faceplates and using fancy screens but the processing and mostly reliability of these units is among the worst. Audiobahn chromes most of their stuff but reliability and quality of sound is lacking quite a bit. Kicker sells amps with MSRP in the 1500s with flashy blue heatsinks and displays but the sound can be comparable with amps around 100 if that. A lot of their specs were far off when they finally went the CEA way. It's like all talk and nothing to show for it. I don't mind bling if everything else is covered, but these companies seem to start with bling and fail miserably in covering the rest.


Yet the Sony 7715/F605 HUs, when speaking strictly from the POV of sound-quality, will easily pace a DRZ9255.

I agree with you so far as that Sony concentrates on the low-end of the market and none of their HUs are what you'd call 'feature-packed.' But to suggest that Sony is incapable of making a quality unit with sonic purity is absurd. Alpine, Kenwood, Eclipse, and virtually all HUs outside of the few $1000+ units are pretty slim on features nowdays, too.


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Man that is a loaded question. They have all made some form of a good product at one time. I would be more concerned about the install instead of name brand.




89grand said:


> I'm not talking about odd ball flea market gear that no one has heard of, but brands that are somewhat known. They don't even have to suck, just brands you refuse to use.
> 
> Here's my list, and it's quite long:
> 1. Sony
> ...


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

ArcL100 said:


> *shrug* If you bought x brand car and it broke down constantly, wouldn't that make you a little hesitant to buy another one - while if you had tremendous luck with another make, you'd be more inclined to purchase another.
> 
> There are no absolutes in life, but there certainly are some valid generalizations or majority's.


Sure, you can make generalizations. But not when the sample size is one. 



> When it comes to spending money, I believe most people are apt to side with what's proven or has a track record, instead of a company that's mostly put out lower-then-average-at-a-given-price-point except a few gems. Others take risks.


But who determines track record? Are we talking about a fairly large pool of data, or one data point? I'm in no way saying that we should disregard the popular opinion. In fact, I'm saying quite the opposite. We should take into account a number of people's opinions -- of course weighing the opinion based on the person's reputation and whether or not their argument adds up. 

But we also have to take into account other factors such as the type of person who tends to buy that brand (usually based on price and availability). For instance, Rockford Fosgate has gotten a really bad reputation once they began selling to the masses. Is it justified? Maybe. But I'll tell you this: the type of person building their system from Best Buy tends to be different from the type of person who would buy it back when you basically had to go to a dedicated shop to buy them. That alone will dramatically affect repair rates (eg. people who don't know how to USE the equipment, let alone install it).


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

minitruck_freq said:


> can you say......****tard?


'bout the coolest name ever though... i give him 30 diyma lbm's just for the reference.



89grand said:


> I'm not sure why you keep insisting this thread is anything else. I'm also a little unclear why you keep posting in it, then adding how retarded the thread is.
> 
> It was meant to be fun...just roll with it.


Because threads like this actually influence people who haven't spent a lot of time on car audio forums, and when you give them really bad advice it is damaging to them. They end up making poor decisions "because they heard somewhere that *brand x sucks now*". To some people, that type of irresponsibility elicits a strong emotional reaction.


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## Bluto Blutarsky (Apr 1, 2007)

B-Squad said:


> Mr. Blutarsky, you are a genius. Nowthen, when's the toga party!!


I've been wondering how long it would take to be recognized.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

ArcL100 said:


> *shrug* If you bought x brand car and it broke down constantly, wouldn't that make you a little hesitant to buy another one - while if you had tremendous luck with another make, you'd be more inclined to purchase another.
> 
> -aaron


Good stuff man!

I feel you can get a general strong dislike about some companies, enough bad experiences for you to cross them off you shopping list. If a speaker company keeps its quality control to lax and or consistency is low you might want to stay away from it because such practices will generaly apply througout its product range.

To clarify about the Sony decks: I never said my sony decks did not have good sq, I said they lacked processing and are unreliable. The units I owned had 24 bit processors and sounded fairly good for the first 5 min or so then heat would make the worst out of them (background statick and noises would come one, cd would skip, cd would not eject).

This thead IMO is about the very worst of brands that are awfull enough to receive a red flag for every dyma user. Sure some people will come in bust a list of 50% of the industry. You have to filter information on this thread just like any other.


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## DonovanM (Nov 1, 2006)

Second Skin Audio. The owner (Ant) is a douche in disguise.

I'm really hesitant to buy from KnuKonceptz as well, too bad their stuff is so nice and so cheap 

I'll run anything if it's a solid product, just not if the company is retarded.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

DonovanM said:


> Second Skin Audio. The owner (Ant) is a douche in disguise.
> 
> I'm really hesitant to buy from KnuKonceptz as well, too bad their stuff is so nice and so cheap
> 
> I'll run anything if it's a solid product, just not if the company is retarded.


Damn...care to explain your situation? I havent heard but good things from Second Skin


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## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

Elemental Designs.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

My thread that pissed a number of people off is back from the dead...it's been revived!


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## 00poop6x (Jan 20, 2007)

That's nice.


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## OGJordan (Sep 26, 2006)

I refuse to use Kicker, Audiobahn, JVC, Rockford fosgate. I've had bad luck with all but Audiobahn personally, but I've heard enough of that crap to know better, lol.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I am going to make an all sony system just to spite this thread. 


Mobile ES is great stuff and youre all a bunch of stupid dingbat jerkfaces. Im not holding my tongue anymore.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

tyroneshoes said:


> I am going to make an all sony system just to spite this thread.
> 
> 
> Mobile ES is great stuff and youre all a bunch of stupid dingbat jerkfaces. Im not holding my tongue anymore.


Hey hey! No need for name calling.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

89grand said:


> Hey hey! No need for name calling.


Sorry, I was out of line.


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## Mazda3SQ (Nov 11, 2006)

Viper amps...extremely over rated and built like poo. I m also not a huge an of infiniti's standard line but then again my problems with them at the time were mainly due to user error.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Mazda3SQ said:


> Viper amps...extremely over rated and built like poo.


Aren't those just Directed amps thrown into a different chassis? I have one that's built fine and does rated power (into 1 ohm, even).


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## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

I had a Viper 400.2 for a while, pretty good amp. Lots of power and it had dual power supplies. I believe they are Directed built, I'm not sure if they are clones of other Directed amps or not though. Probably are.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Wow, thirteen pages and one brand that nobody should run, and that I never would ever consider for anything, has yet to be mentioned so far as I've seen:

*Monster Cable.*

In addition to being the audio industry's ultimate black hat for starting the whole cable fetish, what an incredibly predatory company.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

DS-21 said:


> Wow, thirteen pages and one brand that nobody should run, and that I never would ever consider for anything, has yet to be mentioned so far as I've seen:
> 
> *Monster Cable.*
> 
> In addition to being the audio industry's ultimate black hat for starting the whole cable fetish, what an incredibly predatory company.


Great call, I forgot about them. Yeah, I refuse to use their stuff...even if it was free I wouldn't. They're as bad as Bose.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

89grand said:


> Yeah, I refuse to use their stuff...even if it was free I wouldn't.


thats rediculous, if it was free i would use it


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## 99IntegraGS (Jan 18, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> Wow, thirteen pages and one brand that nobody should run, and that I never would ever consider for anything, has yet to be mentioned so far as I've seen:
> 
> *Monster Cable.*


Check post #5 in the thread.  

JD


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Id use monster cable if they were on sale and priced well. I have a monster cable 17 foot micro series rca I got for 20 bucks and its been in three cars. But yes theyre rediculously overpriced usually and take advantage of people's lack of knowledge. Their HDMI cables are the worst case of this.


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## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

The only thing that is a bigger ripoff than Monster Cable are the USB cords at Best Buy, Office Depot, Staples etc.. $45 for a six footer and they are $5 on eBay for the same damn Chinese made thing!!


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## pontiacbird (Dec 29, 2006)

seriously, save 'the rest of us' some time

What WOULD you use?????


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

pontiacbird said:


> seriously, save 'the rest of us' some time
> 
> What WOULD you use?????


Sure, I'd use:






























Just about anything else NOT on my list.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

my local surplus store sells some top end monster cable designed for video use (red, white, yellow RCA ends) for something like $20 bucks. I think that's less than some people have paid for "far inferior" cables. Especially if you are the in car computer type or have a DVD player in the trunk or don't care that one line is probably a different impendance cable than the other two. two in parralel is an active 3-way stage. stage plus sub outs with two video to the trunk.

very reasonable.


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