# Where to get Ensolite and foam sound pad?



## Abqrb2000 (May 20, 2007)

Almost done with my door install. Where can I get Ensolite and the foam pad (egg carton looking) to put directly behind the mid.


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

i believe raamaudio sells ensolite.

you can get deflex pads from partsexpress.com


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## Kenny Bania (Aug 1, 2007)

Second Skin's Overkill is better.


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Kenny Bania said:


> Second Skin's Overkill is better.


how so? you can't make statements that something is better without quantifying it. How about explain why you think it's better?

Being that they are closed cell foam and both 025" thick I don't see how second skin's overkill is better. Raamaudio's ensoilte is not as expensive and Rick has great customer service.


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## Kenny Bania (Aug 1, 2007)

durwood said:


> how so? you can't make statements that something is better without quantifying it. How about explain why you think it's better?
> 
> Being that they are closed cell foam and both 025" thick I don't see how second skin's overkill is better. Raamaudio's ensoilte is not as expensive and Rick has great customer service.


Sorry, you're right. In my opinion and experience is what I should've said. Type too fast sometimes. 

I guess neoprene seems to be a more elastic product which is great if you need to stretch it at all. It also may not break down as much if you're going to be putting it on the floor and stepping on it all the time. Maybe that's why they use it in sports equipment? Not sure, I'm not an engineer just someone who feels Overkill is superior both in applicability and results. 

I'd buy from either Rick or Ant, both are solid and represent their products well.


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## tRidiot (Jun 29, 2006)

Maybe I'm missing something, but stretchability is not what I'd be looking for in such a product. In fact, having to stretch something implies it would have to be fastened or attached (aka glued) with that much more strength. Thus the tension on the product would remain constant over time and degrade the life and/or functionality of the product (as when it tears loose).

If you're having to 'stretch' it, then you need to cut a bigger piece, IMO. Sure it may have more tensile strength (neoprene, that is), but this isn't something you want in a situation like this.

If we're talking about a wetsuit, then yes, you want it to stretch, but not in the context it's being discussed here. Not in my opinion, anyways.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Kenny Bania said:


> Sorry, you're right. In my opinion and experience is what I should've said. Type too fast sometimes.
> 
> I guess neoprene seems to be a more elastic product which is great if you need to stretch it at all. It also may not break down as much if you're going to be putting it on the floor and stepping on it all the time. Maybe that's why they use it in sports equipment? Not sure, I'm not an engineer just someone who feels Overkill is superior both in applicability and results.
> 
> I'd buy from either Rick or Ant, both are solid and represent their products well.


Are you saying overkill is neoprene. If so please give a link as I have nothing on the SS website that says it is. All I see is its a closed cell foam just like ensolite. I feel they are the same product with a different name, until someone can prove me wrong. I am not trying to be an ass I am just curiouse where you are getting the info you are talking about.

I don't think you can go wrong using either those products and are on a even playing field.IMO

Directly from the SS site:

Overkill™ is the thinnest and lightest noise filter on the market but it is also one of the strongest performers in the industry.

Apply a single layer of Overkill™ on top of your Damplifier and Spectrum vibration damper to filter out specific sound waves interfere with your audio system clarity. Overkill will not only reduce resonant echoes from your sound system, but it will also help to eliminate unwanted ambient sounds that interfere with the tonal quality of your music.

Overkill™ is also thin enough to get applied to some areas of the cars upholstery to cushion rattles and squeaks, helping to improve the overall acoustical environment of you car.
Specifications:
Thickness .125 in (3.17 mm)
Mass/Area .013 lbs/Sq.Ft. (.063 kg/m²)
Heat Tolerance 225 °F (107 °C)
Sheets 46inX72in (116.84cmX182.88cm)
____________________
Over Kill Pro™ is a very flexible OEM style foam made of closed cell vinyl infused with rubber, specifically engineered to filter noise and vibrations between the frequency range of 200Hz and 2000Hz.
Specifications:
Thickness .375 in (9.52 mm) 
Mass/Area .174 lbs/Sq.Ft. (.849 kg/m²) 
Heat Tolerance 225 °F (107 °C) 
Sheets 24inX54in (60.96cmX137.16cm 
_____________________
From Raamaudio Site:
Ensolite, a very durable, light weight, closed cell foam is the ideal sound absorbing material for automotive applications. Most products sold for this purpose are outrageously expensive leading many DIYers to use inferior materials that do the job, but can’t stand up to your car’s harsh environment. Jute and the open celled foams you can buy in a craft shop absorb moisture, leading to mildew and nasty odors. Some “improvised” solutions even present a fire hazard. 

Our Ensolite sheeting is the ideal solution. Very reasonable cost, available in the quantities you need and easy to apply with our spray adhesive. 

Specifications
Thickness 1/8 (.125) inches 
Length 36 inches (sold by the yard) 
Width 56 inches 
Square Feet 14 per linear yard 
Polymer PVC/NBR 
25% Compression Resistance 1.5-3.5 psi 
Water Absorption 0.1 lbs/ft² 
Tensile Strength 30 psi 
Elongation 125% without damage 
Flammability MVSS302, FAR 12 Sec. Vert. 
Flotation UL 1191


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Genxx said:


> Are you saying overkill is neoprene. If so please give a link as I have nothing on the SS website that says it is. All I see is its a closed cell foam just like ensolite. I feel they are the same product with a different name, until someone can prove me wrong. I am not trying to be an ass I am just curiouse where you are getting the info you are talking about.
> 
> I don't think you can go wrong using either those products and are on a even playing field.IMO
> 
> ...


At least ensolite has a flamability rating. Overkill lists nothing. That would have me worried even though I have no idea what would catch it on fire, it's good to know Rick lists it.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

tRdoc said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but stretchability is not what I'd be looking for in such a product. In fact, having to stretch something implies it would have to be fastened or attached (aka glued) with that much more strength. Thus the tension on the product would remain constant over time and degrade the life and/or functionality of the product (as when it tears loose).
> 
> If you're having to 'stretch' it, then you need to cut a bigger piece, IMO. Sure it may have more tensile strength (neoprene, that is), but this isn't something you want in a situation like this.
> 
> If we're talking about a wetsuit, then yes, you want it to stretch, but not in the context it's being discussed here. Not in my opinion, anyways.


When they say the product has stretch to it they aren't saying it's as stretchable as an elastic band. Just slightly more than another product. 

I have some Neoprene and it isn't very stretchable by any means. It is a very stable material that won't lose any of it's structure or durability over time.

Neoprene is a superior sound barrier compared to Ensolite. And the fact that it 's available in 1/4" vs 1/8" that Ensolite is available makes it even more effective.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

*GlasSman*-Where are buying your Neoprene from. What is the cost where you are getting it from. I was thinking there was some on ebay.

If you can afford it I feel Cascade VB3.5 with the embedded lead layer is one hell of a product. No I have not used it but several people I hold in high regard from ECA rant and rave about VB3.5 but its expensive as hell. IIRC its $189.00+shipping for 14sqft.Oooouch


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

GlasSman said:


> When they say the product has stretch to it they aren't saying it's as stretchable as an elastic band. Just slightly more than another product.
> 
> I have some Neoprene and it isn't very stretchable by any means. It is a very stable material that won't lose any of it's structure or durability over time.
> 
> Neoprene is a superior sound barrier compared to Ensolite. And the fact that it 's available in 1/4" vs 1/8" that Ensolite is available makes it even more effective.


If it's not very elastic, it could become a "flapper" and make things worse. Ensolite conforms to more complex shapes rather then just flat panels and would probably stay put better. I have only used ensolite though so I'm just voicing my concerns.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Both are good products and Over Kill used to be neoprene but isn't anymore. Jeez, not worth fighting about. I can guarantee you that both Rick and Anthony would say both are very good. There are differences, but it isn't like you are going to regret going with one over the other for the rest of your days. I've used both. Over Kill is very slightly denser than Ensolite. Over Kill might be a slightly better barrier and Ensolite might be a very slightly better absorber. Who knows?

There's a more important concern with Abqrb2000's plan - don't use open cell foam in your doors. It will hold water, grow mildew, smell like hell and cause your doors to rust. If you waterproof open cell foam, you are making it closed cell, so just start with something appropriate for the environment.


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## jay (Sep 12, 2005)

Genxx said:


> *GlasSman*-Where are buying your Neoprene from. What is the cost where you are getting it from. I was thinking there was some on ebay.
> 
> If you can afford it I feel Cascade VB3.5 with the embedded lead layer is one hell of a product. No I have not used it but several people I hold in high regard from ECA rant and rave about VB3.5 but its expensive as hell. IIRC its $189.00+shipping for 14sqft.Oooouch


you can always go the diy route and purchase some lead sheet to create your own sandwich


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

jay said:


> you can always go the diy route and purchase some lead sheet to create your own sandwich


That really is the best idea, gives you complete control over the components you use and will undoubtedly save you a lot. You can do the same thing with mass loaded vinyl, but lead is supposed to be superior.

Neither of these should be considered a general purpose substitute for the thin sheets of closed cell foam we lay everywhere for good measure. Use it only where you need to block the path of a noise source.


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## Kenny Bania (Aug 1, 2007)

******** it isn't more flexible, it's rubber! But why fight, lets learn.


Products > Neoprene - by DuPont

Neoprene polychloroprene is an extremely versatile *synthetic rubber *with more than 75 years of proven performance in a broad industry spectrum. It was originally developed as an oil-resistant substitute for natural rubber. Neoprene is noted for a unique combination of properties, which has led to its use in thousands of applications in diverse environments.

A Balanced Combination of Properties

* Resists degradation from sun, ozone and weather
* Performs well in contact with oils and many chemicals
* Remains useful over a wide temperature range
* *Displays outstanding physical toughness*
* *Resists burning* inherently better than exclusively hydrocarbon rubbers
* *Outstanding resistance to damage caused by flexing and twisting*

The basic chemical composition of Neoprene synthetic rubber is polychloroprene. The polymer structure can be modified by copolymerizing chloroprene with sulfur and/or 2,3 dichloro 1,3-butadiene to yield a family of materials with a broad range of chemical and physical properties. By proper selection and formulation of these polymers, the compounder can achieve optimum performance for a given end-use. Neoprene is available as a solid and as a liquid dispersion.

Ensolite by Armacell

The premier brand of high performance, closed cell elastomeric technical foam solutions, engineered to meet specific design considerations in automotive, industrial, sports and recreational applications.

http://www.armacell.com/www/armacell/armacell.nsf/ansHTMLSeitenLookUp/USA-TF_Frame?OpenDocument

Ensolite® PVC-NBR Foam
Ensolite PVC-NBR is an energy absorbing foam originally deveoped by NASA to protect pressure from damage.It has virtually 100% memory and is waterproof.
The Ensolite® product line offers a broad range of products based on PVC/NBR for applications in the athletic, flotation, industrial, and automotive markets. The continuous roll stock provides economies in fabrication.
We offer several Ensolite PVC-NBR grades (click link for Material Selector Guide on left-side of page)

http://www.professionalplastics.com...displ/prrfnbr/85318/sesent/00/Ensolite-®-Foam


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

You also have to consider that there are at least 2 types of Neoprene and at least half a dozen types of Ensolite. Properties are very different even within the product families.

I guess I don't understand what people are arguing about so I'll give you a tip for using either. I don't glue the foam down on the floor. Lay it out and let the carpet hold it in place. Makes it a lot easier when you need to get under it for whatever reason. If you are desperate to glue, just use a little bit to tack it in place.


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## boarder124 (Mar 16, 2006)

i just purchased 45 feet of volara 1/8 for the doors and panels and 15 feet of 3/8 for the floor of my sentra at http://www.foambymail.com/closedcell.html . The nice thing is orders over $50 on some products get free shipping. I was around $40 for all that and added a can of of 3M super 77 to bring me over 50 for free shipping. I thought it was a pretty good deal.


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## Abqrb2000 (May 20, 2007)

Ok,
Looking at parts express which foam pad would be good for a car door?
Looking to put it directly behind the mid.
There are so many..


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-318

This seems to be the only one that is closed-cell...if you put open-cell foam in the doors, water will be retained and mold will start to grow and smell really bad. There is Ensolite from RAAMmat though


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## Abqrb2000 (May 20, 2007)

Gotcha.  
I was thinking there was an egg crate style that was good for automotive?
Thanks


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

They absorb sound waves better, but the water retention is the downfall IMO as well as the size is takes up. I would use where no water or moisture would get to it though


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