# Comparing horns to regular speakers for car audio



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

I'm really just trying to learn all the positives and negatives of using horns in a car audio SQL setup. 
I like it LOUD and clear. Bass is easy. And in my next setup, I would likely run a nice, solid 18" sub, with about 5Kwts RMS (but tuned to be really flat, vs. really loud). Mid bass is pretty easy too.... although there are not that many choices in the 2 ohm variety, as most seem to be made for home or pro audio use. I did find some 1000wt RMS 2 ohm 10" mid bass drivers though, that with a little struggling, might be able to be crammed into front lower doors. 

Now about these horns, looking at horns in the past, it seemed they were "too directional". Is this not the case anymore ? If not, what has changed ? What does one do to get the best dispersion ? Is putting them under the dash and aiming them upwards totally fine.... or do guys just do this out of necessity ? "IF" they could be mounted up higher in the dash (using a sawzall  lol) would that be a benefit to SQ (soundstage) ? 

Finally, what kind of horns (brands, models) would cover from say 1Khz to 20Khz, and work well for this type of setup ? 

I've been told that horns require quite a bit of EQ'ing.... which is not a problem. Who doesn't run a DSP nowadays anyway ? I think I was the last person to get one in my truck, so now everybody has one, right ?  lol

Anyway, the most intriguing part of all this for me, is just being able to create a really LOUD, clear setup, with a bare minimum of speakers, so virtually no chance for cross cancellation between speakers... and for simplicity. I think it would be SO freaking cool to have a system which could play from 15hz to 20Khz, at up to 140db's, with only 5 speakers total (1 sub, 2 mid-bass, and 2 horns)

Doable ?


----------



## OGJordan (Sep 26, 2006)

I'd venture to say that getting good quality midbass is the most difficult part of any car audio install myself, not sure i'd say it's "easy" just because you found a driver.


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

OGJordan said:


> I'd venture to say that getting good quality midbass is the most difficult part of any car audio install myself, not sure i'd say it's "easy" just because you found a driver.


Yea, I can appreciate that. And I've experienced this myself with other setups. My 4 mid bass drivers I'm running now, do really well (for $12 closeouts from Parts Express 🙂) But for the setup I'm talking about, I'd want twice as much output from two mid bass drivers, as I'm getting from my 4 now..... And I'd want them in the front doors.... Probably in sealed enclosures built into the doors.


----------



## CrimsonCountry (Mar 11, 2012)

If you've researched any on this subforum then I'm sure you're already aware of the main ones...Eric Steven's Audio for new or older/used Image Dynamics (also Eric Steven's since he was at ID back then). I've also heard good things about the older JBL /Selenium D2500ti as they are similar to the older ID Ultra Neos. There are some B&C and Beyma motors that others have tried but I can't recall all the model numbers. 

Next you'll have to decide if you want the Full or Mini horn bodies. That will depend your component choice and available space for the install. A larger mid will mean quicker beaming and require a lower xover, or full bodies...generally speaking...but the install will dictate more of that (door mounted off-axis vs kicker on-axis etc.)

The general rule for horns are as far back and as wide a possible for the best possible imaging. Also ensuring a good transition between the horn mouth and the dash allows the horns to use the curvature of the dash to effectively extend the horn mouth which helps to raise the soundstage (kind of counter intuitive until you think of it like that). Eric had a great thread on here on the basics of tuning horns (as they are different than traditional cones).

I've only been only been running my set (older ID Ultra Neo on Mini bodies) for the last year and love them. I too loved the idea of a simple 2-way that could get loud of low power and starting going of the deep end into horns. Ha. There are a TON of experienced horn users on here that will be able to go into great detail. Hit up Eric on here or more likely on FB (his ES Audio storefront) as he's always been very helpful and thorough in providing help. 

Which 10" are you looking at? As for 140db or 150db being possible...I'm sure if you're willing to throw enough time and money at it. Lol. It will also depend on what slope that 150db target curve is at...15-20 db slope will be much easier at higher output than a flatter one.


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

CrimsonCountry said:


> If you've researched any on this subforum then I'm sure you're already aware of the main ones...Eric Steven's Audio for new or older/used Image Dynamics (also Eric Steven's since he was at ID back then). I've also heard good things about the older JBL /Selenium D2500ti as they are similar to the older ID Ultra Neos. There are some B&C and Beyma motors that others have tried but I can't recall all the model numbers.
> 
> Next you'll have to decide if you want the Full or Mini horn bodies. That will depend your component choice and available space for the install. A larger mid will mean quicker beaming and require a lower xover, or full bodies...generally speaking...but the install will dictate more of that (door mounted off-axis vs kicker on-axis etc.)
> 
> ...


Thank you Crimson. You know its funny.... Typically, I've always liked to do things completely different than the rest of the crowd. But I guess in this case, I could be a straight up copy cat (with someone like Eric Stevens) and still be doing things differently than 99.95% of all the other stereo guys out there  lol Then, when you throw in the fact that I'm an SQL guy, but also, somewhat of a bass head, my sub woofer setup would still be likely to be different that most others out there. Honestly, even as much as I've learned about subwoofers (and as nice as my sub setup sounds right now) I'd still go on and have a local guru (you might have heard of him... Bobby Gately ?) design that part of my setup as well. Although I would most likely build it myself. Probably some sort of a 6th order or something, but certainly an 18" or larger, super high powered sub, with the prime focus being on "flat" from 15-80hz. I figure an 18" sub with 5 to 8Kwts in a vehicle is going to be fairly loud _without having to try to really hard_ 

I'm okay with a steeper slope. Especially if the higher point of that slope is down really deep. Super loud bass above 30 hz is kind of too much for me anyway.

PS, Now don't rip on me, if these mid bass drivers suck... But honestly, I haven't found ANY others which are 2 ohm rated, with these kinds of specs. They are fairly popular among the SPL crowd though. And the power handling is really great. TROUBLEMAKER SERIES 10
Actually, the 12"s has even more impressive specs, and are only 1/2" deeper. I bet I could build a 7" deep enclosure into the front bottom doors of my F150... even if it had to come into my cab an inch farther than the stupid empty map pockets do now ?


----------



## DirtyBumOak510 (May 31, 2020)

In terms of Horns that go from 1khz - 20khz - Eric Stevens told me within the last few weeks that his horns get crossed at 800-1200hz - so that fits your MO perfectly. This reminds me of that "if you give a mouse a cookie ... then he'll want a glass of milk" book I read my kid. You need high sensitivity Mid-bass speakers to pair with the horns due to the horns ridiculous sensitivity. He has high sensitivity Mid-bass speakers (a 6.75" and a 8") to go with the horns.


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

DirtyBumOak510 said:


> In terms of Horns that go from 1khz - 20khz - Eric Stevens told me within the last few weeks that his horns get crossed at 800-1200hz - so that fits your MO perfectly. This reminds me of that "if you give a mouse a cookie ... then he'll want a glass of milk" book I read my kid. You need high sensitivity Mid-bass speakers to pair with the horns due to the horns ridiculous sensitivity. He has high sensitivity Mid-bass speakers (a 6.75" and a 8") to go with the horns.


Yea... I just wish he had similarly designed 10"s... or even 12"s. Its just hard for me to believe that a pair of 8" mid bass drivers (regardless of how sensitive) will be able to keep up with a crazy high powered (5 Kwts... after impedance drop and all that... so maybe an 8 or 10 Kwt amp) 18" sub woofer..... And I don't want to run more than one pair of MB drivers either, as my whole idea with the next build, is to make the loudest, cleanest system, with a great front stage, with "the fewest speakers" that I possibly can.

I'm actually more confident that the horns will be able to keep up, easier than the MB drivers....


----------



## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Fish Chris 2 said:


> Yea... I just wish he had similarly designed 10"s... or even 12"s. Its just hard for me to believe that a pair of 8" mid bass drivers (regardless of how sensitive) will be able to keep up with a crazy high powered (5 Kwts... after impedance drop and all that... so maybe an 8 or 10 Kwt amp) 18" sub woofer..... And I don't want to run more than one pair of MB drivers either, as my whole idea with the next build, is to make the loudest, cleanest system, with a great front stage, with "the fewest speakers" that I possibly can.
> 
> I'm actually more confident that the horns will be able to keep up, easier than the MB drivers....


Do you want your substage to hit 140 or your midbass to hit 140. You keep going back and forth on this. Do the math on the drivers. You know their power handling. You know their sensitivity. Calculate it.


----------



## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

If this is for system to listen while in the vehicle the MB8 with the right power is about all any normal person can handle. 

If for a portable rave style where you are hanging outside the car and listenig from a distance then more could be useful if not loud enough. My Sable pissed other companies off at the shows because you could hear my mids and highs over their bass in their booth. 1 pair of a lesser 8"


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

opekone said:


> Do you want your substage to hit 140 or your midbass to hit 140. You keep going back and forth on this. Do the math on the drivers. You know their power handling. You know their sensitivity. Calculate it.


I'm pretty good at math, but not sure how to set up the equation.
I think getting well over 140 dB's with the substage will be relatively easy (except for maybe, knocking the cabin peak way down... Which goes against being loud).

I'm not even sure "which subwoofer" or "which mid bass drivers" so that makes it kind of hard to cslcuy as well.
I just want to be loud, and clean, with no major peaks or valleys, from 18

Tried to post this yesterday... but forgot to hit the "Post" button... Doh !


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

I don't understand this misconception that speakers need to "keep up" with high output subs. Speakers only need to get loud enough for enjoyable, low distortion listening, they do not need to "keep up" with 140dB subs.

Like Eric said, a pair of good 8's is capable of the kind of output that anyone can comfortably listen to. This comes back to why so many people don't bother putting 5kw of power into huge subwoofer systems if sound quality is the goal. You won't have a balanced sound reproduction if you have your subs 20dB louder than everything else, and you won't have an enjoyable listening experience if you push the fullrange speakers to 130dB in an attempt to "keep up".

I see a lot of people asking for advice on what speakers they should get in order to "keep up" with a particular subwoofer setup, and it's a nonsensical idea if you are striving for a system to actually listen to music with.


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

Eric Stevens said:


> If this is for system to listen while in the vehicle the MB8 with the right power is about all any normal person can handle.
> 
> If for a portable rave style where you are hanging outside the car and listenig from a distance then more could be useful if not loud enough. My Sable pissed other companies off at the shows because you could hear my mids and highs over their bass in their booth. 1 pair of a lesser 8"


This would be for a loud daily driver... but also for demo's, and yes, of course... if its too loud to sit inside of, it would be fine to stand outside, and crank it up even louder. Some people can't handle 10 Kwts of bass either. But Im asking about a reasonable balance of mid bass, between this kind of subwoofer power, and a pair of Stevens horns, also being pushed pretty hard.


----------



## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I don't know that any sane person would push horns "pretty hard" more than once. It takes so little power to make them way louder than you can imagine.


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

gijoe said:


> I don't understand this misconception that speakers need to "keep up" with high output subs. Speakers only need to get loud enough for enjoyable, low distortion listening, they do not need to "keep up" with 140dB subs.
> 
> Like Eric said, a pair of good 8's is capable of the kind of output that anyone can comfortably listen to. This comes back to why so many people don't bother putting 5kw of power into huge subwoofer systems if sound quality is the goal. You won't have a balanced sound reproduction if you have your subs 20dB louder than everything else, and you won't have an enjoyable listening experience if you push the fullrange speakers to 130dB in an attempt to "keep up".
> 
> I see a lot of people asking for advice on what speakers they should get in order to "keep up" with a particular subwoofer setup, and it's a nonsensical idea if you are striving for a system to actually listen to music with.


This is all just your own personal opinion, and I disagree with it.

I would like to have an SQL system that sounds balanced and super clean, with a nice soundstage, as loud as anyone could stand it, sitting in the car.....
Then, people could get out of the car, walk 20 feet away, at which point it could be turned up 6 or 8 clicks more, still balanced, and with zero distortion. Obviously you wouldn't have the sound stage experience at that point, but it would still be fun.

I still believe SQL is where its at. Just not that many good examples out there.


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

LumbermanSVO said:


> I don't know that any sane person would push horns "pretty hard" more than once. It takes so little power to make them way louder than you can imagine.


I understand this about horns, which is why I'm not super concerned about a pair of horns being loud enough, to hold up against a rediculously powerful subwoofer setup. 
I'm more concerned about a pair of midwoofers being able to fill in between.

Honestly, even in a typical "non-horn" setup, I think mid bass is often the region lacking the most.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Fish Chris 2 said:


> This is all just your own personal opinion, and I disagree with it.
> ...


You may not agree with facts, but they are in fact... facts.




Fish Chris 2 said:


> ...
> 
> I would like to have an SQL system that sounds balanced and super clean, with a nice soundstage, as loud as anyone could stand it, sitting in the car.....
> Then, people could get out of the car, walk 20 feet away, at which point it could be turned up 6 or 8 clicks more, still balanced, and with zero distortion. Obviously you wouldn't have the sound stage experience at that point, but it would still be fun.
> ...


How are you measuring the 140 dB... (A) or (C)?


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

Holmz said:


> You may not agree with facts, but they are in fact... facts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Holmz said:


> You may not agree with facts, but they are in fact... facts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, lets just step back for a moment.

You don't believe it's possible to create a system which is very loud, and still very clear ???

I've sat in SMD's Tahoe. IMO, it was "very loud, and very clear" (about 159 dB's at the time) Maybe you would not agree, but that would most definitely be personal opinion.

I believe having a system with a lot fewer speakers will lend itself to SQ. I know I can make a single sub setup that it both very loud and very clear. And with EQ'ng, very flat. Maybe not 159 dB's, but certainly 150+

I know horns are very loud and very clear. 

I read that mid bass drivers can be very loud and very clear.

What part of this do you think won't work ? 

How would you do an SQL system ? 

Just out of curiosity, what are your personal feelings about systems like SMD's or JP's ? I think they are amazingly cool 🙂
Not too much of anything. But for what they are, just right 😉


----------



## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

For some reason people are still struggling to understand that you want the system to be loud when you are outside of the car. You're doing it. Keep going.


----------



## EmptyKim (Jun 17, 2010)

Fish Chris 2 said:


> I think it would be SO freaking cool to have a system which could play from 15hz to 20Khz, at up to 140db's, with only 5 speakers total (1 sub, 2 mid-bass, and 2 horns)





Fish Chris 2 said:


> And with EQ'ng, very flat.


I think part of the problem is when 140db is stated and mentioned being EQ'd flat, its hard for us to focus on the mid/highs being 140db along with the subs. In most house curves, the subs are quite a bit louder than the rest. This is hanatsu's house curve:

20 -6
25 -5.5
32 -9
40 -15
50 -18.5
80 -22
100 -23.5
120 -26
160 -28
400 -30
800 -31
1600 -34
2200 -34
2700 -36
3000 -35
5000 -36
7000 -37
9000 -38
11000 -39
12000 -39.5
14000 -40
22000 -42.5

Subs at 140db with this curve will be loud and the mids/highs will be loud also and "sound" flat but the mids/highs won't be hitting 140db. Is this what you are trying to achieve or louder?


----------



## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

He wants to hit a house curve with as much db as possible from 20-30 feet away, but do it with 5 speakers so he can still have that sw33t imaging when he turns it down.


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

opekone said:


> He wants to hit a house curve with as much db as possible from 20-30 feet away, but do it with 5 speakers so he can still have that sw33t imaging when he turns it down.


Thank you. I know it throws people off when I say, "very flat"... but really I mean to say, "capable of being very flat (at one point in the tuning process) with no major peaks or valley's, and then, as you stated, to put a nice gentle curve on it. 

And yes, as loud as one can stand it "in the car".... and then everyone can get out and walk 20 feet away, while I turn it up several more clicks.

Interestingly though, when you see guys like SMD and JP, doing demo's, they often use "all" of their available Kwts (or 95% of it) with people in the car ! Granted, a lot of those people tap out.... but many don't. And although probably a handful of people in the history of loud car stereos have suffered immediate and permanent hearing damage, 99.9 % don't... surprisingly. I didn't.... But I did tap when the bass was about 35 Hz or so 

So here I am talking about a loud system with only 5 speakers, and only 10 to 20Kwts, vs. 50 or more speakers (JP's Tahoe has 120 speakers, and 100 Kwts... of pure fun  and we have some saying my system will be too loud to listen to (btw, mine, just like every other, will have a volume control 

Oh and another thing, I know those horns can get super loud.... but really, will a single pair of Stevens horns be louder that say, 60 mid range drivers, and 60 tweeters, on 6 or 8 Kwts ? 
Also, would any single pair of mid bass drivers be louder that say 32 10" mid bass drivers ?
Hmmmm. Doesn't seem likely to me.


----------



## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Fish Chris 2 said:


> Oh and another thing, I know those horns can get super loud.... but really, will a single pair of Stevens horns be louder that say, 60 mid range drivers, and 60 tweeters, on 6 or 8 Kwts ?
> Also, would any single pair of mid bass drivers be louder that say 32 10" mid bass drivers ?


You have the power to answer those questions. But from what you know about doubling cone area giving 3db. You take your 60 100 watt drivers but we have to start with 1. double it to 2. A third time to 4. A fourth time to 8. A fifth time to 16. A sixth time to 32. A seventh time to 64. So you get an extra 21db just from cone area going from 1 to 60 drivers (supposing they are adequately sensitive). But you also get increased power handling so you can toss another 21db on there through an extra 5900 watts. 60 drivers at 6k watts will provide about 40db over a single driver at 100 watts.

How much does a horn increase the efficiency of a driver? A whole bunch. You can look at those sensitivity numbers. Does a steven's horn body provide 40db over a typical driver? No. Your dispersion might get messed up but nothing is stopping you from running more than one pair of horns. You'd save a lot on electrical, that's for sure.

But I thought you were concerned about midbass. 😎


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

opekone said:


> You have the power to answer those questions. But from what you know about doubling cone area giving 3db. You take your 60 100 watt drivers but we have to start with 1. double it to 2. A third time to 4. A fourth time to 8. A fifth time to 16. A sixth time to 32. A seventh time to 64. So you get an extra 21db just from cone area going from 1 to 60 drivers (supposing they are adequately sensitive). But you also get increased power handling so you can toss another 21db on there through an extra 5900 watts. 60 drivers at 6k watts will provide about 40db over a single driver at 100 watts.
> 
> How much does a horn increase the efficiency of a driver? A whole bunch. You can look at those sensitivity numbers. Does a steven's horn body provide 40db over a typical driver? No. Your dispersion might get messed up but nothing is stopping you from running more than one pair of horns. You'd save a lot on electrical, that's for sure.
> 
> But I thought you were concerned about midbass. 😎


I am. More so than the horns, anyway. My whole point is, I think a 5 speaker setup, with horns, a pair of loud mid bass drivers, and a very strong, properly designed sub setup, will be still quite loud (even if its not an SPL winner) and can still be very clean, and in fact, much better for sound staging, than the systems with 60, 100 or more speakers.

And honestly, I would not be really concerned if it "only" hit 150 dB's. As I often have to remind people, I'm probably about the least competitive guy you will ever meet. Only out to do better than myself.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Fish Chris 2 said:


> Okay, lets just step back for a moment.
> 
> You don't believe it's possible to create a system which is very loud, and still very clear ???
> 
> ...


Most of that is factual, and obviously I would be using horns, as I was one who suggested them in one of you threads.
The personal options, and belief statements, I will stay away from.


My disagreement about facts was in reference to GIJoe's thread, and that you appeared to consider as an option peice.



gijoe said:


> I don't understand this misconception that speakers need to "keep up" with high output subs. Speakers only need to get loud enough for enjoyable, low distortion listening, they do not need to "keep up" with 140dB subs.
> 
> Like Eric said, a pair of good 8's is capable of the kind of output that anyone can comfortably listen to. This comes back to why so many people don't bother putting 5kw of power into huge subwoofer systems if sound quality is the goal. You won't have a balanced sound reproduction if you have your subs 20dB louder than everything else, and you won't have an enjoyable listening experience if you push the fullrange speakers to 130dB in an attempt to "keep up".
> 
> I see a lot of people asking for advice on what speakers they should get in order to "keep up" with a particular subwoofer setup, and it's a nonsensical idea if you are striving for a system to actually listen to music with.


but I do believe that I could make you deaf in about 1\2 hour with a 25w amp and some horn. This you believe that you are immune to, so we have a disagreement over the facts.


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

####


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

Holmz said:


> Most of that is factual, and obviously I would be using horns, as I was one who suggested them in one of you threads.
> The personal options, and belief statements, I will stay away from.
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I do believe the horns could play louder than was needed "while sitting inside the truck"....but that's interesting, when you think of those systems with 60, 100, or more speakers, which apparently "are not" too loud to sit inside of ? Hard to believe two horns could be louder than 100+ mids and tweets with several thousand watts going to them ? I mean, either horns are like nuclear powered and from another planet..... Or regular speakers are just completely lame.
Hmmmm.


----------



## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Fish Chris 2 said:


> Well, I do believe the horns could play louder than was needed "while sitting inside the truck"....but that's interesting, when you think of those systems with 60, 100, or more speakers, which apparently "are not" too loud to sit inside of ? Hard to believe two horns could be louder than 100+ mids and tweets with several thousand watts going to them ? I mean, either horns are like nuclear powered and from another planet..... Or regular speakers are just completely lame.
> Hmmmm.


Well the sensitivity of many speakers are around 90dB(A).
Horns are in the 110 dB(A) range.
20db is a factor of 100:1, so...

"Aye... they are eqivilent to 100 speakers."

Or horns on 100w are equally to piston speakers on 10kW.

The math is all there.



https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/noisehearingconservation/loud.html


----------



## Sam Spade (Mar 16, 2020)

opekone said:


> For some reason people are still struggling to understand that you want the system to be loud when you are outside of the car. You're doing it. Keep going.


I think chris wants his horns to give him horns 🤣


----------



## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

A single pair of MB8 will be fun while outside the car as well. 2 pair will get it to about where the HLCD are maxed out.

There is no better speaker than the HLCD for portable rave style listening, the horns project the sound in way that has more clarity at long distances.


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

Eric Stevens said:


> A single pair of MB8 will be fun while outside the car as well. 2 pair will get it to about where the HLCD are maxed out.
> 
> There is no better speaker than the HLCD for portable rave style listening, the horns project the sound in way that has more clarity at long distances.


Thank you Eric. Well my idea would be to build the loudest, cleanest system, with only 5 speakers. So if I had to back off on the HCLD just a touch, that would probably be okay. Just wish you had some MB12's 

BTW Eric, Do think if a single sub woofer were powerful enough, that it could keep up with a pair of those horns ? I sat in a truck a few weeks ago, that had an 18" Sundown Audio level 5, getting about 6000 wts. Sounded fantastic. But in spite of the fact that he has really nice mids and highs (sat in the same truck a few months ago, before he had the sub woofer setup completed, and wow !) ,they couldn't start to keep up with that single 18".... I think that guy really needs your horns


----------



## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

You could go with a Stereo Integrity 24...


----------



## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

For products I have to go where the volume is for products.

keeping up is all a matter of taste and perception as has been commented on a lot in this thread. I think a pair of 15" or 18 " in infinite baffle is perfect with 1500 - 2000 watts of AB power, you might prefer a single 18 in a dual reflex BP design with 12000 watts. This is where audio is like food its all about personal taste. Problem is we all might describe it in different terms so its hard to correlate.


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

LumbermanSVO said:


> You could go with a Stereo Integrity 24...


Those are really nice... Efficient... And move a lot of air. Interestingly though, one can buy an 18" with a rediculous X-max that moves even more air.
I do like BIG subwoofers though 🙂


----------



## OGJordan (Sep 26, 2006)

Just to give you a bit of perspective...just installed my first horns a couple weeks ago after having had IDs in the late 90s. They're in a Ford Excursion, I'm running 10" midbasses in the doors, and 2 18" Sundown U Series ported on about 4000 watts. The subs can have the entire side of the truck wave and ripple at full tilt, the horns are louder than they need to be.


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

Eric Stevens said:


> For products I have to go where the volume is for products.
> 
> keeping up is all a matter of taste and perception as has been commented on a lot in this thread. I think a pair of 15" or 18 " in infinite baffle is perfect with 1500 - 2000 watts of AB power, you might prefer a single 18 in a dual reflex BP design with 12000 watts. This is where audio is like food its all about personal taste. Problem is we all might describe it in different terms so its hard to correlate.


So true. I do like big power on BP enclosures.... But if I had ever heard an IB setup that was done really well, maybe that would change my mind. I'm open to anything.


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I know this is an old thread. But, I just finished reviewing a set of Steven's Audio HCLD-CompNEO horns.

I know you like your music loud and clear. Do yourself a favor and buy a set of these immediately. No questions asked. You will absolutely love them. I guarantee. If not I'll buy them from you at half price LOL!!!


----------



## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

Ge0 said:


> I know this is an old thread. But, I just finished reviewing a set of Steven's Audio HCLD-CompNEO horns.
> 
> I know you like your music loud and clear. Do yourself a favor and buy a set of these immediately. No questions asked. You will absolutely love them. I guarantee. If not I'll buy them from you at half price LOL!!!


Whenever I build an all new system, in a new (at least, new to me) vehicle, I will absolutely run the Stevens horns..... And probably a large true IB subwoofer too.

Btw, because you pulled this old thread back up, I decided to read the whole thing again.... And wow, so much confusion. I know a lot of it was my fault, because of the terms I used, or the way I used them, but when I have mentioned mids/highs, and mid-bass "keeping up" with a subwoofer, I never intended that to mean 150 db's of mids and highs. Obviously that would be rediculous. In this case, 110 db's of mids / highs might "keep up" quite well. Maybe I should have just said, "sound good with" to keep from confusing folks ?
Another thing, when I say "flat" I don't mean as in a perfectly horizontal line... I just mean without a bunch of ugly spikes and dips. I totally get that a nice sounding house curve is much higher on the left, with maybe a small gentle bump on the right too.


----------

