# Low powered SQ install in a MkV GTi.



## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

well, fresh back from vacation and boy the relaxation was worth it, cuase this MkV GTi was surely one of hte more annoying cars i have done recently. Ask many installers and they will tell you they dont like germans cars, this MKV was a bit peculiar, in someways, it was easier than the MKIV, but in others, more annoying...hehe

anyway the goals:

1. great a nice sounding SQ system with the gears supplied by the customer (whcih is why its low powered)

2. very simply looking in the back with fully stealthiness

3. figure out osmeting for the front midbass location 

anyway, lets get started. everything except hte subwoofer and the midbass amp, was provided by the customer.

the singal starts with an aline 505 dvd headunit. now here i want to make a suggestion to anyone who has one of htese cars or is going to work on them.

*DO NOT GET THE METRA DASH KIT!!! it fits HORRIBLY.* at first i thought it was me that did something wroing,until i took it apart, got another one, and just put the kit in place without the HU, and it was the same. notice the HUGE GAPS top and bottom, not tomention the sides dont match the contours of the dash either. i then confirmed this by going on golfmkv.com...apparently AI makes a kit that fits much much better, whcih is interesting cuase i usually avoid AI's kits. but for this car...i ugess they make the best fitting one. again, *DO NOT GET THE METRA DASH KIT FOR THE MKV!* until you findout they have revised it. lol we are getting the AI kit to swap it out asap.










the front stage consits of a pair of Zapco Competition 6.5" two way components. the tweeters were molded off axis into the stock A pillars, again, VW's A pillar proved to be annoying to work wtih, its very thin and too flexible to sand and wrap easily...and the vent makes things harder, but it came out okay.



















here are two quick build pics:

first after its molded










and then after they were wrapped with vinyl:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

now comes the midbass, whcih of course, as you know, is one of hte most intersting install challenges. the stock midbass location is at the BACK of the front door, firing into the side of your butt...WTF (rumor i guess is the MKVI are going back to the normal front lower door location)...some people have put in a relatively large mid in the stock mid location, playing it as low as possible, to drag the stage forward, but to me, that seems still like a bandaid solution. 

so we decided to build kicks for them. whcih is annoying of course beucase of hte driver side hood latch in the stock kick. took a bit of delicate molding and a lot of sanding and cursing 

so here they are, each kick is SEM texture coated and SEM painted since you cannot wrap that shape of the driver side kick.





































so some build pics...first the kicks were molded and sanded smooth:










then the inside went on first a layer of modeling clay to kill resonance:



















then a layer of dampening to add more resonance killing but also, to keep the clay in place when the temp rises, i have found thiscombination to work really well in preventing a slopping droopy mess.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

here they are, texture coated, and then wet sanded with 400 grit to get hte texture to where i want...










and then sprayed with SEM paint, and speakres mounted



















here is a shot of the laptop tuning of the DC reference amps via the USB cable in the glovebox:










and finally the front portion as a whole:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

moving onto the trunk...

as mentioned before, just very simple and stealthy, here is the normal view, virtually 100 percent stock looking with the cargo mat in place










pull out the mat and a fake floor trimed in carpet with a center cut out greats you:










remove the carpet and here is hwta you see, a white vinyl rack with poenings for two zapco DC amps, and a Exile XT10 10" shallow mount subwoofer.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

here is a view of the wiring. the DC350.2 on the driver side sends 2x100 watts to the midbass, the DC360.4 on the passenger side sends 50 watts to each tweeter, and bridged 180 watts to the sub. a total of just shy of 500 watts 

the XT10 sits in a .5 cubfeet subbox thats only about 4.25" deep. whcih is the reason i chose it, as the spare tire well has a huge hump in the middle of it.










now a quick word on the XT10...i just picked up Exile recently, after hearing reviews from my peers and talking to them presonally. and i am acutally very impressed wtih the XT10. it blends into the music very well, with exceptional transients, toanlly very good, and impact is suprising good as well, not the loudest sub nor going the deepest, but it certainly is one of hte best, if not the best, shallow subs i have installed within the sub 200 dollar price range. look for more Exile stuff from me in the near future 

here is the sub it self, hasa nice quality feel to it




























overall, the car sounds quite good, for only a coupla hours i had to set it up and with speakres i am not that famliar with. midbass is nice and snappy, nice and high staging, the cneter isnt as focused as i want, but just needs more tuning time. over tonally is good, with no major problem areas, and i dont have that many bands altered on the EQ...

overall, not a bad car acoustically speaking, but i am sure glad i got this one out of hte way...waht a PITA...and for my next act...i have....oh wait, anothe MKV GTI coming in next week for a bigger SQ install...bleh...


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## lyttleviet (Sep 11, 2008)

installation looks great! Nice choice in amps!


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## ChicoOG (Nov 27, 2007)

Bing, looks great!!! Have to say though, his kicks look better than mine He's coming by tomorrow, so I'll get to hear it personally. Did leon do the tuning?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

no real tuning on this one mike, was so short on time...good thing the back was really simple to pull off 

i hope his kicks look better than yours hehe, 4 whole days was spent on them pretty much other htan running wires...my hands are still sore from the sanding lol you will get your turn soon


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## ChicoOG (Nov 27, 2007)

simplicityinsound said:


> no real tuning on this one mike, was so short on time...good thing the back was really simple to pull off
> 
> i hope his kicks look better than yours hehe, 4 whole days was spent on them pretty much other htan running wires...my hands are still sore from the sanding lol you will get your turn soon


I'm looking forward to it...


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

dude dont u ever stop working,jk...nice installs but u heard it b4


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

Love it, looks awesome. Very clean.


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

Good looking install, as always!! I've got one of those subs in my truck and have enjoyed quite a bit!!!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

yeah, the next GTI is going to be like this but with more than twice the power, twice the sub, and different spekares...should be interesting hehe


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## Pantani (Jul 17, 2008)

I've heard people say that by mounting the tweeters and woofers so far apart you can have problems with imaging and overall SQ.

What am I missing, have I been I'll informed? I'm asking just to educate myself, obviously you know what your doing and I'd like to learn a thing or two about this choice before I tackle the install in my Mazda 6.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Bing,

Once again you make a totally stock looking professional easy. Golf clap!

Ge0


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Pantani said:


> I've heard people say that by mounting the tweeters and woofers so far apart you can have problems with imaging and overall SQ.
> 
> What am I missing, have I been I'll informed? I'm asking just to educate myself, obviously you know what your doing and I'd like to learn a thing or two about this choice before I tackle the install in my Mazda 6.


IMO, that impression, which is also the same impression i grew up with, and held until about 2-3 years ago...i think a lot of today's tuning abilty, with full DSP, TA, XO etc helps facilitate differential mounting between mid and tweet. if you look at my intsalls prior to that, you will see two way kicks dominate.

but as i always say, i am no expert in SQ theories, if you are asking me to explain this, i cannot, and a ton of people on this board can do it better than me, but what i do know is, in the set ups i have done now with this kind of desing (maybe about 20-25 total installs), with the right tuning, it has sounded very good. 

it hink a lto of it depends on also the speaker used (having a tweeter thcan go lower IMO helps), car's interior, and as i mentioned mostly, tuning. i still favor two way kicks keeping the tweeter closer to the mid in simple, passive straightforward installs, but it hink when a full DSP is involved, doing it like this can present a higher stage with less rainbowing, and more precise center image


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Ge0 said:


> Bing,
> 
> Once again you make a totally stock looking professional easy. Golf clap!
> 
> Ge0


if you can feel the aches of pains in my fingers and wrists the next morning after the sanding, you wouldnt call it easy by any means haha


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## Ianaconi (Nov 11, 2006)

Awesome mate!

I can't wait to see your other MKV install.

Damn I am not sure why they changed the door speaker location.

MKIV doors are awesome!

I have a POLO GTI that I am going to start building pretty soon! 

The interior is similar to the Golf MKIV.


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## kiko (Feb 1, 2008)

really really nice work bro, like you always do...


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## ChicoOG (Nov 27, 2007)

simplicityinsound said:


> if you can feel the aches of pains in my fingers and wrists the next morning after the sanding, you wouldnt call it easy by any means haha


You need a shop helper to do that manual labor for you...you're the master designer, lay-out, wiring guy...division of labor can be your friend


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

I LOVE you style and execution! I keep seeing open kick panels on the back, seems like I will have to try that when I build my set.


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

I hate Bing installs.... 
What can you say for comment? "It's awesome" and "Great work" get too repetitive 
Screw up once in a while dude


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

nice work, 

but im guessing the owner will be very disappointed when he cant feel the bass on the freeway, 200 watts on a single 10? when there are 700 watt amps for $100?.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43044

what a pita to upgrade


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

60ndown said:


> nice work,
> 
> but im guessing the owner will be very disappointed when he cant feel the bass on the freeway, 200 watts on a single 10? when there are 700 watt amps for $100?.
> 
> ...


but 100 bucks is still way more than 0 bucks as in the amp is a hand me down from his dad  remember everyhting was provided for me exept the sub (whcih was matched to his amp) he he he

as far as not hearing it, maybe if we all drove older stripped out vans that would be a problem mhehehehe


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## bass_lover1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Nice looking install, Bing. Great work as usual.

IIRC, Exile Audio was started by a few guys that left Phoenix Gold.


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## SanJoJoe (Jul 10, 2008)

I thought I would chime in. I am the owner of the GTI. The installation is excellent. With the exception of the dash kit, everything blends in very well and looks almost stock. The dash kit, as Bing said above, does not fit well at all. With a minimal amount of tuning, it already sounds great. I am sure once the tweets are broken in and some more tuning is done, it will sound even better. Bing did a great job with meeting my needs and staying within my very tight budget and time constraint. If I had the money, I am sure I would have done a few things differently(more powerful amp for the sub, as recommended above), but I am very happy with the outcome. Bing did an excellent job.


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## Tonyguy (Nov 15, 2007)

great work bing. looks awesome. go VW.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

good to see you on here anthony...have a safe drive up north


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## Pantani (Jul 17, 2008)

simplicityinsound said:


> IMO, that impression, which is also the same impression i grew up with, and held until about 2-3 years ago...i think a lot of today's tuning abilty, with full DSP, TA, XO etc helps facilitate differential mounting between mid and tweet. if you look at my intsalls prior to that, you will see two way kicks dominate.
> 
> but as i always say, i am no expert in SQ theories, if you are asking me to explain this, i cannot, and a ton of people on this board can do it better than me, but what i do know is, in the set ups i have done now with this kind of desing (maybe about 20-25 total installs), with the right tuning, it has sounded very good.
> 
> it hink a lto of it depends on also the speaker used (having a tweeter thcan go lower IMO helps), car's interior, and as i mentioned mostly, tuning. i still favor two way kicks keeping the tweeter closer to the mid in simple, passive straightforward installs, but it hink when a full DSP is involved, doing it like this can present a higher stage with less rainbowing, and more precise center image


Good enough for me, thanks for the reply.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Pantani said:


> Good enough for me, thanks for the reply.


dont take my word for it htough, try it out youself sometime and get your own impressoin, as its your car, what you like is most important


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## moosejuice (Oct 5, 2007)

Nice install Bing, and not all systems have to have high power and head room to sound nice.....

B-


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I always compliment you on your installs Bing, so no surprise here when I say good job. But looking closer at the last several installs you've done, especially at the kicks I'd say that you are a true craftsman and you provide inspiration for many people here. Thanks for sharing the install.

Zach


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## glidn (Apr 21, 2007)

very nice install man, i like the the finish and almost oem+ look.
If you have done more VW in ther past too, i would appreciate seeing some of your work?.

Thanks


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## ASCI_Blue (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm giving you fair warning simplicity, I'm stealing some of your ideas for my GTI MKV as well. Those are sick kicks and looks like they're decently enough located for a DSG Car.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

no worries, just send me a 5000 dolalr check when you are done for copyright imfringement lol muwahhahaha

jk

good luck with yours...now if the MKVI doors can be fitted to the MKV, that would rock lol...what a case of mental retardation this is on the part of VW, they went from one of the BEST lower door locations (MKIV) to one of hte worst...


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## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

Do you ever get tired of the compliments for always doing an awesome job?
'cos here is another!.. Awesome as always, Bing 

Looking forward to the next...

Mark


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

well, compliments, espeically those from my peers and customers, are wahts driving me in this whole endeavour...if i just wnated to make a buck, i would have stayed with my job after college and grad school, but doing this is really enjoyable, despite the physical nature of the work, i find it to be great mental stimulation as well.

besides, as much as i may inspire people here, i get just as much in return from their suggestions and their work...i really do learn something new every week from you guys 

Mark, i have always wanted to go to australia, though my dream destination is Perth, after hearing just how relaxed it is hehe...if i am ever down there, i will be sure to hit yu up 

b


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## pwnt by pat (Mar 13, 2006)

simplicityinsound said:


> good luck with yours...now if the MKVI doors can be fitted to the MKV, that would rock lol...what a case of mental retardation this is on the part of VW, they went from one of the BEST lower door locations (MKIV) to one of hte worst...



Take a look at the door. The map pocket can VERY easily be adapted to an enclosure putting a midbass or what have you down in the front of the door. Very easy labor, I think.

Looks good though.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

pwnt by pat said:


> Take a look at the door. The map pocket can VERY easily be adapted to an enclosure putting a midbass or what have you down in the front of the door. Very easy labor, I think.
> 
> Looks good though.


now i think this is a statement i couldnt DISAGREE with more...through my expeirnces, this door is one of hte toughest one you can do a molded door pod onto. a lot of cutting, a lot of carefully mocking up, and part of it has to be MDF to fit into the door pocket (remember you cant mold over the entire poicket beucase the gas and trunk release buttons), and remember it has to look good. i just dont see how this is possible to be done eanyhwere close to easily.

but, if you have a easy way of doing it, please definetly post it here, it will help me a lot beucsae i am planning on a 3 day job on the door pods alone at this point


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## Nitin (May 28, 2008)

hey the door isnt that difficult to work with if you have the ability to do it correctly which im confident you do have - heres some pics of what some one else on this very forum did with a GTI door recently - ive saved the pics for ideas for my install but here goes 
























































i cant remember who it was otherwise id have given the props - but this should give you some decent ideas on how it can be done - maybe you might need more time than three days - but hey always next time you do the same car you could apply these ideas 

remember the speaker doesnt need to be the huge ones you see here - its still doable for smaller speakers too


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

thats a remold of the enitre lower door, whcih is not something we are doing for this next car...that involves stiching from an ulholstery shop, espeically at the joints...i can definetly do this but to be honest, it maybe outise of hte budget for most people.

a normal, door pod attachment mold, would be a bit more ato do cleanly because it needs to integrate into the mocket, versus molding completely over it. mainly the initial mold part is hard, the rest is not as time consuming...


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## glidn (Apr 21, 2007)

simplicityinsound said:


> thats a remold of the enitre lower door, whcih is not something we are doing for this next car...that involves stiching from an ulholstery shop, espeically at the joints...i can definetly do this but to be honest, it maybe outise of hte budget for most people.
> 
> a normal, door pod attachment mold, would be a bit more ato do cleanly because it needs to integrate into the mocket, versus molding completely over it. mainly the initial mold part is hard, the rest is not as time consuming...


Yeah i would have to agree here too,
the same problems that often arise here in NZ. Unless of course you have lots of money.


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## BLD MOVS (Sep 23, 2007)

As always, very nice. I do have a question. On many of your stealth installs you have the panels that lay on top of the amp/subwoofer rack in the trunk. Do you typically do any sort of ventilation or fans? This seems like a very popular design and keeps everything hidden nicely. Do you ever get returns from customers with overheating? I understand it may depend on the amp choice-meaning some amps may stay cooler than others, different heat sinks etc...

Thanks as always for posting pics.


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## ChicoOG (Nov 27, 2007)

BLD MOVS said:


> As always, very nice. I do have a question. On many of your stealth installs you have the panels that lay on top of the amp/subwoofer rack in the trunk. Do you typically do any sort of ventilation or fans? This seems like a very popular design and keeps everything hidden nicely. Do you ever get returns from customers with overheating? I understand it may depend on the amp choice-meaning some amps may stay cooler than others, different heat sinks etc...
> 
> Thanks as always for posting pics.


Bing did a stealth install for me....the top panels have large cut-outs covered with a sturdy metal mesh and then finally with a porous carpet. Ventilation hasn't been an issue, except when my trunk is full of stuff and it is 100 plus degree and I drive for more than 2 hrs


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

yea hi do do this a lot. and i would say, only about 30 percent of them, do i put a fan on...based on my experiences, i base my decision on the following:

1. the particular amplifier being used, to me, the DLS RA and A series of amps, as well as the zapco DC reference amps with the dual fan mod, works perfectly fine with no fan and runs well with in their operating parameters.

2. if there is a fully sealed plexi top over the amp rack. in installs where thre is solid piece of plexi over the amps and its an encloxed boxed amp rack that doesnt allow ANY heat to excape, i almost always have a fan on them.

3. the type of listener the customer is. the times where i put a fan in despite having good cool amps and no plexi is when the listner mostly listen to hiphop, bass tracks or other types of music with a lot of low end. and that he or she would be listening to it at high volumes, those i put a fan on.

out of the 100 or so fully stealth installs i have done in norcal over the past three years without any fans, overheating systems, if i recall correctly, is around um...hmmm 1 or 2? meaning overheating just from normal listening. and a subsequent addition of a fan fixed both...one was a result well, a guy who listens to more bassy stuff than he told me hehe, and the other was i think just from the equipment itself (not dls or zapco amps). ironically, i have had 2 out of maybe 30 or so installs WITH fans suffer fro overheating issues, though one of them happened only once and never again, the other...i had n oexplanation for except to add another fan and call it a day 

trust me, if my isntalls were overheating left and right, i would be out of buisness a LONG time ago 

but again, one has to realize stealth installs is a compromise of sorts. if you stuff any of my installs full of clothing and cargo, and then go drive in a 100 degree day listening to rap at loud volumes for a few years, it is, in all likelihood, going to thermal o you at least once, but remove any one of htose factors and the hcances of that decrease dramatically. this is a usually understood compromise for having a totally stealthy install away from thieving eyes and having the maxiumum amount of trunk space available.  just like having an exposed amp install means it own toverheat but its going to be prone to damage, theft and takes up usable trunk space


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## BLD MOVS (Sep 23, 2007)

ChicoOG said:


> Bing did a stealth install for me....the top panels have large cut-outs covered with a sturdy metal mesh and then finally with a porous carpet. Ventilation hasn't been an issue, except when my trunk is full of stuff and it is 100 plus degree and I drive for more than 2 hrs





simplicityinsound said:


> yea hi do do this a lot. and i would say, only about 30 percent of them, do i put a fan on...based on my experiences, i base my decision on the following:
> 
> 1. the particular amplifier being used, to me, the DLS RA and A series of amps, as well as the zapco DC reference amps with the dual fan mod, works perfectly fine with no fan and runs well with in their operating parameters.
> 
> ...


Excellent guys. Thanks for such a great response. I was just wondering if it was a common practice. I can't imagine there are many installers like you around that take all of your installs to this level. Fantastic.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Something I’ve wondered about custom shops like yours, Bing. When someone comes in with a car and things they want done how do you approach the budget & what they want done. Is the car owner typically flexible, or do they usually have a set budget? Do you have to cut certain corners due to budget constraints, or do you sometimes eat the cost? Does it just depend on the customer and your relationship? 

Also, you’ve got PM coming your way. 

Oh, and you and dvflyer need to get pics up. I’m curious to see the install, though his is a Coupe rather than Sedan like mine.


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## MSimz (Oct 7, 2007)

Nice work, indeed.
About the German cars comment. I used to feel a love / hate relationship when a German car would roll into the shop. In some ways, they were my favorite, in some ways, I would want to suicide myself. I swear, you could hang an elephant from the ceiling with the clips that hold BMW sills in place. But I love how intuitive Beemers and Audis are in the way they are constructed, and the level of attention to detail right from the factory with so many things that other manufacturers just don't have.


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## DeconIV (Jul 14, 2007)

What kind of floormats do you have in the front? It looks black and textur-ized.. I covet!


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## machinehead (Nov 6, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> Something I’ve wondered about custom shops like yours, Bing. When someone comes in with a car and things they want done how do you approach the budget & what they want done. Is the car owner typically flexible, or do they usually have a set budget? Do you have to cut certain corners due to budget constraints, or do you sometimes eat the cost? Does it just depend on the customer and your relationship?
> 
> Also, you’ve got PM coming your way.
> 
> Oh, and you and dvflyer need to get pics up. I’m curious to see the install, though his is a Coupe rather than Sedan like mine.


lol i just had a flashback to unique whips, one of the first shows, when the kid goes in with his new 350z mommy got him and wants rims interior system ect, and will is like 30g and the kid ends up leaving with an air freshener or something


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## Mixagolf1 (Feb 17, 2009)

Nitin said:


> hey the door isnt that difficult to work with if you have the ability to do it correctly which im confident you do have - heres some pics of what some one else on this very forum did with a GTI door recently - ive saved the pics for ideas for my install but here goes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This install looks good, but i can't imagine how you can make from a door card and the door a good enclosure- how to seal сonnection between door card and door metal? And door card will resonate like crazy.

That's why i did my boxes- they're damn heavy but i hope i'll get some audiophile midbass 









Midbasses in the kicks are very good decision too, but not for the car with manual gears


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

Your work is always top notch. I love your attention to detail. With that said, I have a feeling you will be doing an install for me very soon.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i htink if someone wanted it, and given the right budget, i would do a full door mold on the GTI, cause i havent seen too many thats done to my taste. in the mean time, IMO a lower door pod like this i did, works pretty well


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## Mixagolf1 (Feb 17, 2009)

Looks good :thumbsup:
What is a HPF setting in that kickpanel install?


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## NOFATTYS (Jan 5, 2009)

I have the Zapco Competition 6.5's as well...and I plan on running them active with two DC350.2's...I wanted to match the RMS power rating of the amps to the speakers...which on the Zapco site, says 100 RMS each...is this gonna be enough power for them to sound right?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

if you want to go active, and know what youa re doing in regards to tuning, there is really no limit on how much poewr you can send to a midbass, the more poewr you have, to a certain extent, the more dynamic headroom you get.

for hte zapco comp mid, i would CERTAIN send more than 100 watts rms to it, i mean 100 is fine, but i usually would send around 180 or more rms to it.

b


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## brianlin87 (Dec 9, 2007)

^ that door pod looks awesome bing!


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## blacksvtf03 (Feb 27, 2009)

simplicityinsound said:


> *DO NOT GET THE METRA DASH KIT!!! it fits HORRIBLY.* at first i thought it was me that did something wroing,until i took it apart, got another one, and just put the kit in place without the HU, and it was the same.


I felt the same about there kit for the Focus. I emailed them and the guys response was "too bad, we're not doing a new proper design. Metra customer service sucks


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## talibmohamid (Dec 5, 2008)

Great set up man....i bet it sounds nice...man great equipment.....i am so interested in hearing a zapco system


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