# CX5/AudioFrog build & Comparison



## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Figured I would put this up on the board for those that have a CX5 or similar Mazda. This isn’t going to be a flashy build with anything crazy but it will have some custom work and it will involve good gear. I will also be comparing the current equipment to the AudioFrog equipment with pictures and impressions of sound. This will be a slow process because it’s not my primary vehicle and I’ve got a lot going on right now like most of you do. 

Objective: build a good sounding sound quality oriented system using good quality equipment on a modest budget.

Current Equipment:
Celestion AN2775 2-3/4" Full-Range
NVX XSP65 mid woofers/same as SB17 with slightly better car oriented TS Parameters.
Sundown SA12 in custom ported 1.8 net box with 33 Hz tune
Pioneer PRS4200F class D 4-channel with ICE technology.
Infinity K1000 mono.

New equipment:
AudioFrog GB15 tweeter
AudioFrog GB60
AudioFrog GB12 D2
Rockford Forsgate Power 600 4 channel (May keep the Pioneer)
Rockford Forsgate Power 1500 watt class BD (May keep the K1000)

This car has been through a lot of different drivers, amps, subwoofers, and it has been fully treated from the fire wall back to the hatch including all doors with Second Skin Damplifier. I’ve started out with an AudioControl DQ61, passive Polk Audio comps, and a JL Audio microsub 8w3v3. This system sounded pretty good and I kept that system for a long time. I upgraded the tweeters to Morel MTD 12 and caught the bug to keep upgrading. The DQ61 was a nice piece that was easy to time align and just produced great sound. That system at the time used an old school Alpine 3548 2 channel amp and a Pioneer D8601. The Alpine I still have and may use that for the tweeters. It won out in my amp shootout because it just plain sounds good. I then sold the DQ and purchased the JL TwK 88 DSP and Pioneer NEX 1330 HU and eventually the NVX woofers and have tried lots and lots of tweeters and full range drivers. Too many to list. 

I will post pictures in the next post but now I have to get back in the garage and get to work before my time runs out.


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

you must be married,, lol garage time is timed earned...


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

toneloc2 said:


> you must be married,, lol garage time is timed earned...


You nailed it, right after I wrote that I went into the garage and my daughter waited till the last minute to do her homework. Wife started screaming at me to go help her with her homework so there goes that.  I’m sort of the handy person in the household and was once an ASE Master tech so got three phone calls from family needing electrical and car advice in between all that too.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Getting GB15 ready to go in with 22uf capacitors. I have plans to install these in the A pillars later but want to have sound now. :laugh:

























Celestion driver being replaced. These have great sound and I used them tweeterless. 

















Cheap but effective Harbor Freight tool screwdriver for tight spots. 









Stock door card with Second Skin from prior install.









After Sonic Barrier sound treatment.









My little fried goes where I go checking out the old sub.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Some comparisons between the GB60 and NVX XSP65 which is the same thing as the SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-4. It will be interesting to hear what the difference will be between these two in sound. The NVX XS65 are a really good sounding mid woofer in my book.


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## TheLex (Jan 25, 2019)

Wow, for the price, the NVX/SB Acoustics driver actually looks pretty decent. Of course the Audiofrog fit and finish is out of this world nice.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

I've been most impressed with SB Acoustics in the bang for the buck arena. Including the Satori line.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Nice. Just a heads up, i would up that cap on the tweeter to 47uf or higher. You shouldnt be using it as your actual crossover. Only something to block relatively very low frequencies


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

SkizeR,

The cap is actually 47uf, which protects starting below 900 Hz. I thought I used the 22uf, which starts rolling off around 1800 Hz @ 6 db. They are there solely to protect from low frequency information from getting to the tweeter in case of a mishap, as this will be an active system electronically crossed over at around 2000-25– Hz 24 db. 

greatlabroski, I’ve been impressed with the Sb drivers too. I really like the SB29 tweeter in my van. Listening impressions will be coming up when I get things installed and tuned.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

These are the Polks I first bought back in 2013/2014 for the CX5 about 5 months after I bought it. Not sure how but these mid woofers defy physics for a 6.5 because when it came to midbass they reign as king. I have had nothing yet that could do more than they could. They look like **** though and can’t match the NVX mids for tonal balance or clarity. 









I wanted to reuse the factory speaker spacer because it has the factory connector and puts the speaker at the exact right location behind the door card and it bolts up all nice and sealed to the sheet metal. They are a little light weight and weak for the GB60s so I came up with an idea. 









I found some leftover garage floor epoxy patch that I thought would be perfect for reinforcing the structure behind the spacer by filling in all those voids. I could also drill and tap this epoxy for a better screw bite. No sense in letting this go to waste so I got to mixing and applying it and it worked out perfect. It’s as solid as a rock; a nice foundation that won’t resonate or flex. It looks ghetto but I think it works extremely well. 









Now I just need to clean these up and mount the mid woofers. There is already second skin sound deadener applied to the outside frame.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Got some garage time tonight without the wife’s eyes rolling like a slot machine and got the speakers mounted. I did a quick listen with no tune other than basic crossovers and all I’ll say for now is these speakers are promising, especially the tweeters. I will be tuning these babies this weekend.









Top corner is the stock speaker. I cut it out with a utility knife to reuse the speaker mount you see the GB60 mounted to. I used Parts Express speaker gasket to seal the GB60 to the frame and seal the frame to the door. I love this stuff and use it on all my speaker installations. It’s the perfect thickness and width. 









Back side of stock speaker compared to GB60. That epoxy worked out extremely well and made for a solid foundation to mount the speakers to. I drilled it out and tapped it with a 4 mm x .75 pitch tap and threaded the screws right in it. I then added a nut on the back and hot glued the nut to lock it in place. The nut isn’t really needed but I like the extra security of having it there. 









All mounted and ready to go.

































In this last picture I cut up some boom mat speaker baffles to make some rain guards out of them. Even though the AudioFrogs are designed to be inside a door I don’t want to take any chances with speakers this expensive. I think this should be done on all installations to keep the water dripping down from the window seal above from getting into the voice coil or madnet system. I glued them in place with some good qaulity contact cement so they ain’t going nowhere! Next time you have a door card off, have a friend lightly spray the outside of the door and watch how much water gets in past that window gasket. The first time I did that I was like WTF.


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

V8toilet said:


> Got some garage time tonight without the wife’s eyes rolling like a slot machine and got the speakers mounted. I did a quick listen with no tune other than basic crossovers and all I’ll say for now is these speakers are promising, especially the tweeters. I will be tuning these babies this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You should take some time to measure the difference those make to the frequency response. Install one door with and one door without then play mono correlated pink noise and measure with a mic pointing directly at the speaker. 

Then if you really want to see what they're doing to the clarity of the midbass try listening to a few songs in mono and see if your ears like what they do.




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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

tonynca said:


> You should take some time to measure the difference those make to the frequency response. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


tony,

I'm not sure what you are referring to? Do you mean the speakers themselves or something else? I also already installed the door cards.


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## Stycker (Jan 31, 2018)

Nice work. I am looking forward to your progress. I would love to hear your comparison between the NVX XS woofer and audiofrog GB60. I also run the NVX 6.5 woofer. I would like to upgrade to the audiofrog midwoofer, but I'm afraid the rest of my speakers won't compare in output or quality. Then I would have to upgrade the other speakers too. When does it end?


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## tonynca (Dec 4, 2009)

*CX5/AudioFrog build &amp; Comparison*



V8toilet said:


> tony,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you are referring to? Do you mean the speakers themselves or something else? I also already installed the door cards.




I'm referring to those speaker rain guard baffles. They will change the acoustics of the speakers. For the better or worst is based on measurements you have to make using your ears and a mic. 

I installed one of those with a hole in it before and I didn't like what they did to the clarity of my midbass. It definitely gave it more SPL but at a cost of clarity. Just thought I'd chime in. 


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Stycker said:


> Nice work. I am looking forward to your progress. I would love to hear your comparison between the NVX XS woofer and audiofrog GB60. I also run the NVX 6.5 woofer. I would like to upgrade to the audiofrog midwoofer, but I'm afraid the rest of my speakers won't compare in output or quality. Then I would have to upgrade the other speakers too. When does it end?


Looking at your equipment in your signature and having Scan Speak for tweeters I don't think you will lose out on that end because its very nice equipment.

BTW, thanks for the complement.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

tonynca said:


> I'm referring to those speaker rain guard baffles. They will change the acoustics of the speakers. For the better or good is based on measurements you have to make using your ears and a mic.
> 
> I installed one of those with a hole in it before and I didn't like what they did to the clarity of my midbass. It definitely gave it more SPL but at a cost of clarity. Just thought I'd chime in.
> 
> ...


I thought in the past that might effect the sound but now you have me wondering. I can try that test when I redo the mids for my truck so I will definitely keep this in mind. 

Thanks


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Got some more garage time today thanks in part to the snow storm outside. Also decided to reduce the size of these pictures so they load faster. Been working on tuning the front stage. The tweeters were very easy to tune and didn't require much at all. The woofers however are giving me the same trouble I had with the SB's, which is attributed to the interior design and doors. Not much I can do about that. 

So now that the front stage is installed I wanted to get the GB12 D2 installed. I started a comparison thread comparing the AudioFrog to the Sundown in this thread. 

The box I built for my Sundown is 1.8 cubes net tuned to 33 Hz, which is within the range recommend by AudioFrog. The issue was the GB12 has a slightly wider frame than the Sundown, and since the box is built to recess the woofer into the front baffle it didn't quit fit the GB12 by about 1/8". Solution, widen the front baffle opening with a router and circle jig. The problem was my big router is broken and I don't own a circle jig, so the Macgyver in me kicked in and I built my own, and used a laminate trim router I had kicking around with a straight flute bit. I took some left over ABS plastic I had from the F150 build and used that to make a jig. 

















Then I screwed some scrap plywood into the opening to support the center section of the jig. 

















And cut the opening which worked out great.

















Because I had to cut the outer opening off center from the original design I also had to rework the inner opening so that the GB12 would be centered to the new opening. I obviously had to cut the new opening off center to stay away from that edge. I made a tracing template out of cardboard to trace the new outer opening to the inner opening.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Tracing of the outer opening to the inner opening using a piece of cardboard. 

























Some bondo the fill in the old holes in preparation for the new sub.









Just needs some sanding, a fresh coat of paint, and a subwoofer.









Back to the garage.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Nice work!!!!


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Finished the sub install and salvaged the old box for now.

New speaker gasket tape









Replaced the 16 gauge wire with some left over 10 gauge power wire. The wire connectors on the GB12 will crush or cut any bare wire. The solution is to tin the wires with a good amount of solder. Colored shrink wrap helps identify positive vs negative quickly. 









I needed the wire to be long enough so that I could comfortably install the subwoofer but didn't want the wire to rattle against the box so I wrapped it in some leftover foam from a fast ring kit I had laying around. 









Repainted and ready to go for a listen









New woofer/old box.









Now to break it in and do some listening. Going to have to change that signature below too.


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

Looking good! Any new updates on further tuning and comparisons to previous speakers and the Audiofrogs?


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Found a couple hours to start on the new sealed box. The front will have another 3/4 layer glued to whats already there and it will look pretty much just like the ported version above, only sealed this time. Volume is estimated to be 1.275 cu ft sealed after driver displacement. 

















I haven't had enough time to put much into tuning other than the basics but I have noticed that I like the sparkle of my GB10 in my truck more than I like the GB15 in my CX5. I know this is because of the location of the GB15 being off axis in the CX5. The GB10 in my truck (other build) are more on axis which are located in the A pillar. Right now my truck has the best sounding system overall. I'm going to start playing with the GB15 on axis in different locations so I can plan some custom work for those.

Attached here is the BassBox Pro estimate for response with plus 3 db @ 50 Hz and a 12 db per octave rise estimate for cabin gain. Red is this box sealed, orange is in a 1.029 cu ft sealed box and Yellow is that ported box you see above with 33 hz tune.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

V8toilet said:


> Getting GB15 ready to go in with 22uf capacitors. I have plans to install these in the A pillars later but want to have sound now. :laugh:
> 
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> ...




I gotta couple buddies that do the same thing. Love car and gear and install .


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Damn it I was referring to the kitty cats . 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

V8toilet said:


> Getting GB15 ready to go in with 22uf capacitors. I have plans to install these in the A pillars later but want to have sound now. :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





What made you decide to use the 22uf caps?


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

Redliner99 said:


> What made you decide to use the 22uf caps?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



https://www.audiofrog.com/community...p-tweeters-in-systems-with-active-crossovers/


Nice build man! I run the gb60 and gb15 in my s2000 and really like them. i have yet to hear some gb10 though. I am toying with the idea of doing the 3 way in my 4runner but i'd have to do the gb60 in some kick panels i believe, don't think there is any way to fit them in the doors. They barely made it in the s2000. 

I would like to hear how you like the gb15 compared to some other tweeters that you have used in 2 way systems.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Garage time is certainly a rare commodity, but you have certainly made the most out of your opportunities. I think it was beneficial to place the three sets of speakers in the positions vacated by the previous drivers to get a comparison, then try them in locations / box that may suit them / you better. More work, but it settles down the, “I wonder if.......” question a bit. Good job!


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> What made you decide to use the 22uf caps?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I actually used 47 uf I think if I remember right now, which was roughly 2 octaves below the x-over point. 



pw91686 said:


> https://www.audiofrog.com/community...p-tweeters-in-systems-with-active-crossovers/
> 
> 
> Nice build man! I run the gb60 and gb15 in my s2000 and really like them. i have yet to hear some gb10 though. I am toying with the idea of doing the 3 way in my 4runner but i'd have to do the gb60 in some kick panels i believe, don't think there is any way to fit them in the doors. They barely made it in the s2000.
> ...


I haven't had enough time to do a thorough tuning with these but as they are now in the dash locations (not ideal) they are easily the best I've had, especially when playing at high volume. The only tweeter that comes a very close second is the SB Acoustics SB29RDCN-C000-4 Neo Magnet, Ring Dome Tweeters. Those are impressive for their price. I have the GB10 in my truck that are located more on axis in the A pillars and paired with some JL C5 mids and those are very impressive sounding tweeters and I'm extremely happy with them. I plan to mount those GB15 in the A pillars of my CX5 too, hoping they give off the same sparkle as the GB10 do now in my truck. 

The GB series of speakers are basically what everyone on this forum has said they would be. They are that good!


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

V8toilet said:


> I actually used 47 uf I think if I remember right now, which was roughly 2 octaves below the x-over point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ok 47uf sounds right. Your getting me excited to get my gbs installed. 


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> Ok 47uf sounds right. Your getting me excited to get my gbs installed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you are disappointing in them than I'm going to say you likely did something wrong or you have very high standards beyond my comprehension. 

What drivers did you get?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

V8toilet said:


> If you are disappointing in them than I'm going to say you likely did something wrong or you have very high standards beyond my comprehension.
> 
> 
> 
> What drivers did you get?




Gb15s gb60s and 2 gb12s


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Update, now that my sons baseball is done I have a little more time to mess around with the car. I’ve been slowly chipping away at this sealed sub box that is just over 1 cube with an angled back to match the seat back in my CX5. If I like how is sounds I’ll finish it off with carpet. It’s got a dual 3/4” front baffle and has generous internal bracing. It’s a pretty stout box. In the first picture is my Ford F-150 and Van. The F-150 build is located here. 

























I’m starting to think three way active again with this car but for now the two way does sound awesome. I need to think of an idea on how to secure this box so that it doesn’t become a projectile in the event of a collision but I’m not sure how yet. Open to suggestions on that?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

JCsAudio said:


> I need to think of an idea on how to secure this box so that it doesn’t become a projectile in the event of a collision but I’m not sure how yet. Open to suggestions on that?


If its going against the back of the seat, you can secure a cleat mounting system to the back of the seat and enclosure so that its lip of the one on the seat is facing down and you have to fold the seat down to slide the two parts into each other, then just fold the seat back with the box still attached. This will lock it into place while still being quickly and easily removable. You will just need to use something to keep them decoupled or super tight to prevent rattles against the two pieces


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> If its going against the back of the seat, you can secure a cleat mounting system to the back of the seat and enclosure so that its lip of the one on the seat is facing down and you have to fold the seat down to slide the two parts into each other, then just fold the seat back with the box still attached. This will lock it into place while still being quickly and easily removable. You will just need to use something to keep them decoupled or super tight to prevent rattles against the two pieces



Nice, we have similar product like that sometimes at work. I like this idea!

EDIT: I think some of your CCF might work for decoupling or preventing rattles?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

JCsAudio said:


> Nice, we have similar product like that sometimes at work. I like this idea!


Go for it! I just ordered some more for the shop

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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

perfect solution for my side "prefab for my car" enclosure. 

Very nice build


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Its raining out today which is a good thing for me so that means there is nothing to do but mess with the car audio system in the garage  and the wife cant do this :snobby: when there are chores to do outside. She did just tell me that I was playing it too loud and our house sounds ghetto. :laugh:

So I put a quick coat of black paint on the box but didn't put any effort into the finishing of the box because its a test box for now and I said to myself, if I like it than I'll just carpet it. I also added 1 pound of acoustic fill from Parts Express and mounted the GB12 D2 in the box. 
















I'm also contemplating making some kind of pod or enclosure for the GB15 so that they are pointed on axis from within the factory location. I have extra factory grills so if I screw them up I wont be too upset about it. In the picture below I propped them up on their sides and pointed at me to see if there was a difference and I can hear slightly better sparkle when they are in this position.
















Here is the GB12 sealed measured response before EQ and then after EQ.








Here is the GB15 reponse in the dash pointed up at the windshield and then on axis pointed at me as seen in those pictures. 








Here is the full response with the GB15 on axis. If I keep them like this I will fix that hump around 6k with the DSP and time alignment at the X-over point. I also lowered the HP from 2k to 1.8k and they sound good. 








These graphs are showing up on the forum like they are truncated so they look worse than they actually are. Somehow I didn't get a response curve of the ported box before I put the GB12 in the sealed box because I thought I had a saved file somewhere but I guess I didn't. It sounds surprisingly good and the drop in SPL, although noticeable, isn't as drastic as I was expecting it to be. I'll leave it this way for a while to get used to the new sound and see if I like it or not. One thing I've noticed is the bass sounds even more up front than it did before and it was good before. 

So I'm looking for some ideas on those GB15 tweeters. Should I graft them into the front grills so they are pointed on axis? If I use grill cloth and fiberglass to graft them in than where do I get some vinyl or something similar that will match the interior? I have never done this before so I have to ask the noob question. 

Somewhat off topic but I see a three way coming in the future for the F150 build. Those GB10 and JL C5 need a little midrange help.  The GB15/GB60 combo do a better job in that department. If these subwoofers werent so expensive I'd get another one and have a dual sealed setup. Listening to Mullings dual sealed JL W6 in his Prius a few months back makes me want to try it. That was an awesome sounding system!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

*Re: CX5/AudioFrog build &amp; Comparison*

Are those graphs before or after eq?

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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

*Re: CX5/AudioFrog build &amp; Comparison*



SkizeR said:


> Are those graphs before or after eq?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


All After EQ except the first graph in purple is the sealed box before EQ and the green is after EQ on the sub only. 









The dip at 400 is a null I get no matter what midbass driver I use so I just match left to right so the stage doesn’t pull to one side in the frequency range. I think there is some cancellation in the crossover of 1.8k where it dips and I think and the tweeter needs a little work too, which I plan to tackle after I figure out the tweeter locations. I’m all ears though for any knowledge I can get from a guy whom I know tunes a lot of cars. 

I’ve been playing more music with the sealed box and I’m already missing the impact of the ported box a little. I also verified that the tuning of that ported box is actually 30 Hz, not 33 Hz like I was aiming for. Gotta give it some time and see what happens!

EDIT: here is what it is now against my target curve.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

I was gunna say, get rid of that 35-55hz peak. That probably sounds ugly lol. Also the dip at the crossover point. Might be a phase issue

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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> I was gunna say, get rid of that 35-55hz peak. That probably sounds ugly lol. Also the dip at the crossover point. Might be a phase issue
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Even the after EQ one in the yellow graph? The cabin gain in this vehicle is strong at around 40 Hz. Let me work on it this week sometime after work and I'll post back the results.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Update:

I picked up a JL VX800/8i last week and have had some AF GB25 and GB10 on the shelf for a while now. My goal is the take this car from a 2-way to a 3-way, which currently runs the GB15 crossed to the GB60. I’ve been impressed with the three way in my daily driver pickup truck so naturally I want the same in my CX5. Ideally I’d like to have this ready for the upcoming great get together but there probably isn’t enough time considering my busy schedule and oppressive heat we’ve had.

What I’ll do is maybe compromise for now and mount the GB10 flush in the A-pillars off axis because it’s easy and mount the GB25 where the GB15 is now. It may not sound as good but hopefully with a good tune it can top the current 2-way combo. Eventually I think I want to mount the GB10 in the corner trim on axis that sits above the front door panel behind the A pillar. I’ve contemplated making A-pillar pods with fiberglass but honestly I’m not a fan and my A-pillars are flimsy to begin with. I prefer more of an OEM stealth look if possible. The other thing about this car is there really is not many options for mounting a tweeter. Everywhere I think I can mount a tweeter presents challenges with something crammed behind it. Mazda used every square inch of this vehicle to hide something tight behind a finished piece.

Ive continued this build log over here now and loaded lots of pictures too. For those that care lots of information is presented. Mazda CX-5 AudioFrog GB series build evolves - Page 3


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

can you do mids in the dash and tweeters in the pillar?


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

I did Nick but the tweeters on the A pillars are currently not ideal or on axis. I want to do the the same thing you and Kevin did with the tweeters in a CX5 (I stole your picture) but I don’t have the time to tackle that right now. I posted tons of pictures and more information on CAJ, use link above.


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