# They say change is good...



## DanMan

Long story short: I have run the system in my signature for several years. I love it. I commute 3-4 hours a day. Love every minute of it. Seriously.

A long while back, I picked up these:Speaker Building Supplies from Madisound
They come highly regarded. Winslow's recommendation was enough for me.

My ID x69's are in solid kicks under the horns. I planned to shoehorn the Audax midrange's into the doors. No easy feat. They would play from 175hz to 1200hz in the doors. The trade-off of axis in this range alone worries me. The x69's ability to play dedicated midbass 80hz to 175hz is a concern also.

So, any opinions as to why or why not this may be worth the effort?

P.S. I have posted similar query in the past. Looking for a fresh take on the matter.


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## thehatedguy

I might would raise the midbass midrange do point to 250 or so. And maybe the horns to 1500.

Those cones are untreated paper so you need to protect them from moisture.

However you are keeping all of the cone speakers in their piston mode, so aiming any of them is going to be less critical than it has been with your previous setup.


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## bassfromspace

Hmmm. Audax recommends 500hz as the hpf. Does running it to 175hz strain the driver?


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## thehatedguy

Not in the car...or not that I remember, that setup always got rave reviews from the judges. Then again, I know a lot more now than I did 10 years a go.

But I would still bump it up some.


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## DanMan

bassfromspace said:


> Hmmm. Audax recommends 500hz as the hpf. Does running it to 175hz strain the driver?


You would think.

Apparently it has been done with favorable results. Yet another reason why I am on the fence with installing these. I do trust Thehatedguy though.


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## thehatedguy

That's where mine were at back then. Like I said, I would bring them up some knowing what I know today.

Guys were using them ob in pairs in the home at 250 Hz and up.


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## thehatedguy

And keep in mind they are pro speakers and recommend XO points for pro use and domestic are or can vary a little bit.


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## bassfromspace

thehatedguy said:


> And keep in mind they are pro speakers and recommend XO points for pro use and domestic are or can vary a little bit.


True.


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## mitchyz250f

i have played my Audax's in my car from 300/400 - 3000Hz. I couldn't really tell the difference crossed at 300 or 400Hz. Awesome speakers, dynamic and open.


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## DanMan

mitchyz250f said:


> i have played my Audax's in my car from 300/400 - 3000Hz. I couldn't really tell the difference crossed at 300 or 400Hz. Awesome speakers, dynamic and open.


Can you tell some more about the install?

Thanks!


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## mitchyz250f

Acura RSX Hatchback
Sub - DIYMA12 in 1cu ported enclosure turned to 28Hz - Amp is old school Orion GX280 bridged - [email protected] O. XO is 80 Hz. Subsonic set at 33Hz.
Midbass - JBL 2204 12" in 1cu sealed enclosures in rear qtr panels. Amps are 2 Orion GX280 bridged [email protected] O ea. XO is 400 Hz.
Mids - Audax PR170M0 in stock door locations, 2 liter sealed enclosures. Amp is old school Soundstream [email protected] O ea. XO is 3000 Hz.
Tweets -Xtant tweeters in the off axis in the pillars about 4" of the dash. Amp is SS D60II. [email protected] O ea.
Center - JBL 104H IB and Xtant tweeter in dash pointing up. Amp is l SS D200II bridged. Xtant is passively crossed at 5000K @ [email protected] O. XO is 300 Hz.
Rears - peerless TG9's on axis at the corners of the rear windows. Amp is SS D100 bridged. [email protected] O. XO is 2000 Hz. 
DSP is MS8. Crossovers except for the passives are 24db.

Sub does what it is suppose to, give bottom. It certainly gets loud and sounds good. But it is 100 to 5000Hz where music is most important to me.

The MS-8 does everything I would hope that it would do. Once I do the initial setup I do not adjust it again. The sub always sounds right. People who like hip hop or Electronica will listen to my system and say the bass is weak. Then we throw in one of their CD's and their jaws drop.

I had JBL 2105 as midranges before the Audax. My midbass had power but no snap or immediacy. Female vocal were not as good as I wanted/needed. Snare drums sounded like the louder version of what you hear in any very good system. With the Audax the difference was very substantial. When you have it loud in the car and there is a snare drum hit, there is impact that feels like your head was momentarily placed in a vice. Yes it is painful, just like sitting next to a real drum. Just lower it. Flat out, the JBL 2105 crossed at 400 Hz did not sound nearly as good. Much less open, dynamic AND much less musical.

OK a few other things I have changed over time. I started with Morel MT 23 and went to the Xtant tweeters. Crossed at 3K, I didn't notice a difference. The Audax's were traded out for PHL1120, same basic speaker designed by the same guy with a different basket that allowed me to put the speaker behind the stock door panel. I didn't notice a difference and even though these speakers have twice the travel of the Audax's I didn't change the crossover.

I have 12" midbasses that can hurt you while you can barely see them move but the best part of the system is the clarity, musicality and dynamic of the middle 150 - 5000Hz. People talk about the power but stay for the music. 

My wife who is the harshest critic of this hobby. Has never listened to a single full song after a new install. When I had the JBL2105's in the car, she listened to the theme song to 'titanic' and said it sounded like something was covering the speaker. When she listened to the same song, on the same system, the only change was the Audax's, she gasped. When it was oven she ran out of the car AND came back with 10 CD's. While she listened to them for over an hour we had a discussion about music, singers, and how she felt she was hearing these songs for the first time. The detail is amazing. Horns sound like real horns with the full power of horns.


It is the clarity, delicacy and the power of the Audax’s and the old SoundStream amps that make this system so enjoyable. The big JBL's MBs make the system fun.

And fun is good.


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## subwoofery

Seeing this thread, I had the ich to model a few midrange drivers  

First thing I've noticed, the Audax is nowhere near the claimed 100dB sensitivity - well at least not 1w/1m. WinISD shows 93.65dB with a rated efficiency of 1.4% 
The PHL 1120 is indeed a better driver, while being more efficient, it can still be crossed a bit lower than the Audax (315Hz VS 400Hz) - WinISD shows 96.12dB with a rated efficiency of 2.49% 

Did model the Beyma 605Nd, and the Faital Pro 6PR150 but the one that seems like a monster is the 18Sound 6ND410. 
The 6ND410 can go much lower @ 160Hz (input 100 watts) and is much more efficient - WinISD shows 98.02dB and a rated efficiency of 3.86%  
^ my next buy for sure 

I know numbers doesn't tell the whole story so I'm wondering what makes the Audax have those sonic qualities - guess I have to hear Audax first  

Am using the 6ND410's brother right now (6ND430) - saving up to try some rear midbass (probably the Audax PR330M0) since it's efficient and shallower than most design mated with the 6ND410  

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy

Fwiw the above mentioned phl is used in a very well regarded salk sound home speaker and was the speaker AE was trying to best with their TD6m mid. It and the audax are sonically really similar. The phl does have more excursion, higher power handling, and a weather proofed cone...and a lot more money. ORCA Designs was the US importer but they are no longer doing phl. Zalytron who sold phl is clearing them out, but selection is sparse.


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## subwoofery

thehatedguy said:


> Fwiw the above mentioned phl is used in a very well regarded salk sound home speaker and was the speaker AE was trying to best with their TD6m mid. It and the audax are sonically really similar. The phl does have more excursion, higher power handling, and a weather proofed cone...and a lot more money. ORCA Designs was the US importer but they are no longer doing phl. Zalytron who sold phl is clearing them out, but selection is sparse.


Damn... You're making me want to buy a pair of PHL now 

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy

Kelvin those audax are crude by today's standards, but man do they sound fantastic...I haven't heard a better pure mid with horns yet. Let us know how they rear mounted midbasses work out, I want to givenit a go in my car but am too scared to.


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## subwoofery

thehatedguy said:


> Kelvin those audax are crude by today's standards, but man do they sound fantastic...I haven't heard a better pure mid with horns yet. Let us know how they rear mounted midbasses work out, I want to givenit a go in my car but am too scared to.


I first need to install my front mounted sub - yeah I know, I'm doing the other way around :blush: LOL 

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy

Genelic used phl drivers for a while too. So there is good pedigree going on there.


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## fish

subwoofery said:


> Seeing this thread, I had the ich to model a few midrange drivers
> 
> First thing I've noticed, the Audax is nowhere near the claimed 100dB sensitivity - well at least not 1w/1m. WinISD shows 93.65dB with a rated efficiency of 1.4%
> The PHL 1120 is indeed a better driver, while being more efficient, it can still be crossed a bit lower than the Audax (315Hz VS 400Hz) - WinISD shows 96.12dB with a rated efficiency of 2.49%
> 
> Did model the Beyma 605Nd, and the Faital Pro 6PR150 but the one that seems like a monster is the 18Sound 6ND410.
> The 6ND410 can go much lower @ 160Hz (input 100 watts) and is much more efficient - WinISD shows 98.02dB and a rated efficiency of 3.86%
> ^ my next buy for sure
> 
> I know numbers doesn't tell the whole story so I'm wondering what makes the Audax have those sonic qualities - guess I have to hear Audax first
> 
> Am using the 6ND410's brother right now (6ND430) - saving up to try some rear midbass (probably the Audax PR330M0) since it's efficient and shallower than most design mated with the 6ND410
> 
> Kelvin



Kelvin,

I'm curious what size enclosure (or IB) did you use when modeling these mids? I too was interested in the 6ND410 at one time, but output is in a steady decline starting at around 1k on 18's FR graph.


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## subwoofery

fish said:


> Kelvin,
> 
> I'm curious what size enclosure (or IB) did you use when modeling these mids? I too was interested in the 6ND410 at one time, but output is in a steady decline starting at around 1k on 18's FR graph.


Just used 1cuft since all those work well either in small sealed or in vented enclosures. If you plan to cross those drivers above 300Hz, they should work great IB too. 
Did not even look at the freq response, good catch  
My plan is to pair them with some ID Horns so 2kHz is the highest I need them to play... 
Did not have time to try Jason's suggestion about crossing the horns high with a shallow slope (12kHz @ 6dB/oct slope) but that's my plan too - so the decline in output from the 6ND410 _might_ actually be a good thing for my setup... Well I hope it is lol 

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy

Not that high...somewhere around 6k at 6db. Maybe. Looks good on paper.


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## subwoofery

thehatedguy said:


> Not that high...somewhere around 6k at 6db. Maybe. Looks good on paper.


lol, I knew it was a multiple of 6 - so I thought 1.5 / 3 / 6 / 12 
Guess I was 1 octave too high :blush:

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy

For me to do the midbasses in the rear, I would have to take the torsion bars out and put struts to open the trunk, make some type of slot to get the output more to the outsides of the cabin as opposed to being straight behind each seat (paraline maybe), maybe make an enclosure for the midbasses Bc I don't know how well ib suns and midbasses would play together.

Before committing to that, I want to play around with the speakers that are back there (6x9s) from the old surround rear fill...just to see if I can make it work and how much I would like it.

Lot of work considering the largest that I can physically fit are 10s.


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## fenis

mitchyz250f said:


> I had JBL 2105 as midranges before the Audax. My midbass had power but no snap or immediacy. Female vocal were not as good as I wanted/needed. Snare drums sounded like the louder version of what you hear in any very good system. With the Audax the difference was very substantial. When you have it loud in the car and there is a snare drum hit, there is impact that feels like your head was momentarily placed in a vice. Yes it is painful, just like sitting next to a real drum. Just lower it. Flat out, the JBL 2105 crossed at 400 Hz did not sound nearly as good. Much less open, dynamic AND much less musical.


Mitchyz I've read quite a few of your posts describing the feeling of impact and I fricken love the way you describe it! I have 10" mids (Faital pro 10FE200) running from 80-800hz which are 96db/1w and full size ID horns with beyma CD10Nd's (111db/1w) and know exactly what you mean about that "head in a vice" feeling when a snare drum hits! I'm addicted to dynamics as well!! Do you have any suggestions of which tracks have the best snare drum impact? I like to use Jim Keltner's drum improvisation - very well recorded.

Also what frequencies do you think are responsible for that snare drum head impact? I never had that feeling before in my car before I put horns and pro audio mids in. Have you ever tried muting your midbass and seeing if you still get that head impact feeling from just your Audax mids? I'm guessing that it's everything working together from 80-1khz+ that's responsible but you mentioned that before you put the Audax's in you didn't have that level of impact so maybe its 400hz+?


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## subwoofery

fenis said:


> Mitchyz I've read quite a few of your posts describing the feeling of impact and I fricken love the way you describe it! I have 10" mids (Faital pro 10FE200) running from 80-800hz which are 96db/1w and full size ID horns with beyma CD10Nd's (111db/1w) and know exactly what you mean about that "head in a vice" feeling when a snare drum hits! I'm addicted to dynamics as well!! Do you have any suggestions of which tracks have the best snare drum impact? I like to use Jim Keltner's drum improvisation - very well recorded.
> 
> Also what frequencies do you think are responsible for that snare drum head impact? I never had that feeling before in my car before I put horns and pro audio mids in. Have you ever tried muting your midbass and seeing if you still get that head impact feeling from just your Audax mids? I'm guessing that it's everything working together from 80-1khz+ that's responsible but you mentioned that before you put the Audax's in you didn't have that level of impact so maybe its 400hz+?


Interactive Frequency Chart - Independent Recording Network 

Enjoy!
Kelvin


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## DanMan

If I do manage to get the Audax mids into my doors, will they suffer if I don't use a sealed enclosure?


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## mitchyz250f

From my experience and reading I think the snap is from 800 Hz to 2500 Hz. 

For suggestions regarding snare drum hits that you probably have heard a few time is Michael Jacksons 'wanna be starting something'. right at the begining. If you system is truely sounding live that should hurt.

But it is not the the music (well it is), it is the system. I listened to Kayne West - 'Stronger' in a friends Mercedes. He had spent about $6000 on the system. It sounded really good and he said he thought his system sounded just as good as mine. Anyhow, we got in my car and played the track and there was no comparison. Just seemed like different songs. I said laughing, 'Gee I guess this is how it is _supposed_ to sound'. 

Listening to the 'Pulp fiction's track with Dusty Springfield's 'Son of a preacher man' is insanely clear and musical and flat out beautiful. The Audax's are great on female vocals...and snare drums...and horns...and cheap too. The Audax's will not compress the music at level that you can stand. Mine are run with 50 watts which is more than is needed.

My system for the most part is made up of old second hand speakers and amps that are 20-30 years old (2204's) or have 20 year old technology (all my amps and the Audux's). This is what makes it different:
1- All speakers working within their proper frequency range, on the bottom crossed so what ever speaker can best repoduce the sound does it. I firmly do not beleive in crossing 6.5" midbasses at anything near 80 Hz. 65 Hz doesn't make sense to me. And crossed as high as possible on the top but not beaming.
2- Speakers and amps that do not compress the music at operating levels. Except for the sub you cannot see any of the the speakers moving while they play.
3- Speakers that have exceptional sensitivty
4- JBL MS-8. There is no way that I have the skill to tune this system. Without the MS-8 I have no idea what this would sound like. I run the whole system flat with about 3 db taken off the sub.

Mitch


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## glastron

fenis said:


> Mitchyz I've read quite a few of your posts describing the feeling of impact and I fricken love the way you describe it! I have 10" mids (Faital pro 10FE200) running from 80-800hz which are 96db/1w and full size ID horns with beyma CD10Nd's (111db/1w) and know exactly what you mean about that "head in a vice" feeling when a snare drum hits! I'm addicted to dynamics as well!! Do you have any suggestions of which tracks have the best snare drum impact? I like to use Jim Keltner's drum improvisation - very well recorded.


How is the midbass on the 10FE200's? I'm thinking about running them IB in my doors and am a little worried about the low xmech. A review would be awesome, I haven't heard of anyone else using them.


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## mitchyz250f

I haven't heard the Failtal Pro's. Modeled in UniBox they are almost a effecent as my JBL's, 2 db down at 80 Hz. Subwoofery seemed to think they would work well IB here:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...135996-speaker-sensitivity-2.html#post1722408
and here
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1646566-post87.html

For $59 each if they work well it would be a truely amazing deal.


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## subwoofery

mitchyz250f said:


> I haven't heard the Failtal Pro's. Modeled in UniBox they are almost a effecent as my JBL's, 2 db down at 80 Hz. Subwoofery seemed to think they would work well IB here:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...135996-speaker-sensitivity-2.html#post1722408
> and here
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1646566-post87.html
> 
> For $59 each if they work well it would be a truely amazing deal.


Yep, @ $59 each, they really are very nice IMO (sorry have not heard those yet)... 
Qts is highish compared to most Pro-Audio drivers, Le is low compared to a lot of higher powered 10", FS is resonable for a Pro-Audio, not that deep, waterproof cone, comes in 4 ohm... What's not to like?  

Kelvin 

Edit: please remember that, being a Pro-Audio driver, you would need to use a high highpass if you have 150 watts on tap... Something like 80Hz-100Hz @ 24dB/oct slope to keep it safe


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## fenis

I'm running my 10FE200's IB in my doors (extremely well sealed and solid as baffle) high passed at 80hz/12dB/oct and another high pass (from amp) of ~40hz/24dB/oct. They are low passed at 500hz/12dB/oct mated to my full size ID horns with Beyma CD10Nd high passed at 800hz/24dB/oct. I have the 8ohm version with 200w on tap from a bridged Arc Audio 4200SE.

At first the Faitals sounded quite murky and dark but now after ~10hours of use the midrange opened up and midbass is more snappy/pleasing. They reach xmax at 80hz @ 108dB off 19w (with no highpass) and have ~94dB/1w/1m sensitvity down at 80hz and 96dB above that. Because of the high qts of 0.70 they need little or no eq to bring up the midbass. I believe this great low end sensitivity and light weight cone is why they have such snappy and dynamic midbass. Anyone that thinks a 10" mid is "slow" is full of ****. Kick drums are very full and you can feel the kick in your chest. They give such a great sense of power to music like when you're at a concert. I'm now hooked on dynamics!

They have plenty of output but those seeking ridiculous levels of midbass might not be satisfied with the lowish xmax of 4.67mm but for me they get screaming loud and stomp the living **** out of the rainbow profi kicks I used to have! The dynamic midbass more than makes up for the lowish xmax. If you push them further then they become muddy sounding which I'm guessing is from distortion. They don't have any shorting rings but at $59 each they are superb value and are easier to fit than most other 10" mids. If you are thinking about them then my advice is to just try them as they aren't pricey at all!

The 4ohm version is still 96dB/1w/1m but has a lower qts of 0.49. I have the 4ohm specs if anyone needs them.

Here they are in my Subaru Legacy:


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## mitchyz250f

frenis wrote: "Anyone that thinks a 10" mid is "slow" is full of ****"

Hopefully that myth will some day die and we can stop talking about it. I think you would be hard pressed to have solid midbass in your car to 80Hz with anything less than a 10" or 2 8's. You might think you have good midbass but you need to go to a concert or listen to some 10's.

In my house I have two 15" PA midbasses and it doesn't sound as good/real as my car.


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## analogrocker

I'd give anything to fit some JBL 2123's in my front doors. Those 10s are more of a pure midrange than a midbass - I can only imagine what the snap of the snare drum would be like from those! I'd run them up to 1300 Hz or so if I were able to do it.

Someone earlier in the thread asked about tracks with good snare drum. Try Keith Richards' "Wicked as It Seems" out. The snare on that track is very prominent throughout the whole song. On a good system, the snap should hurt (in a good way)!


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## MBorgardt

DanMan said:


> Long story short: I have run the system in my signature for several years. I love it. I commute 3-4 hours a day. Love every minute of it. Seriously.
> 
> A long while back, I picked up these:Speaker Building Supplies from Madisound
> They come highly regarded. Winslow's recommendation was enough for me.
> 
> My ID x69's are in solid kicks under the horns. I planned to shoehorn the Audax midrange's into the doors. No easy feat. They would play from 175hz to 1200hz in the doors. The trade-off of axis in this range alone worries me. The x69's ability to play dedicated midbass 80hz to 175hz is a concern also.
> 
> So, any opinions as to why or why not this may be worth the effort?
> 
> P.S. I have posted similar query in the past. Looking for a fresh take on the matter.



I say move the 6x9 in the doors and be happy...


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## subwoofery

What do you guyz think about this: 
http://www.haut-parleurs.fr/fiches/audax/pr170z0.pdf 
^ really has 98dB-99dB 

Kelvin


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## fenis

mitchyz250f said:


> Hopefully that myth will some day die and we can stop talking about it. I think you would be hard pressed to have solid midbass in your car to 80Hz with anything less than a 10" or 2 8's. You might think you have good midbass but you need to go to a concert or listen to some 10's.
> 
> In my house I have two 15" PA midbasses and it doesn't sound as good/real as my car.


Have you ever measured the SPL in your car? I believe to start feeling a good kick drum you need at least ~112dB midbass (with little distortion) from the listening position.


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## fish

subwoofery said:


> What do you guyz think about this:
> http://www.haut-parleurs.fr/fiches/audax/pr170z0.pdf
> ^ really has 98dB-99dB
> 
> Kelvin


Pretty high Fs... did you model this one? Probably would truly have to high-pass this one @400hz minimum huh?


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## subwoofery

fish said:


> Pretty high Fs... did you model this one? Probably would truly have to high-pass this one @400hz minimum huh?


Modelled just to see the efficiency difference: 
- about 4.5dB more efficient than the PR170M0 
- about 2dB more efficient than the PHL1120 
- Off 50 watts, the PHL can be crossed over around 250Hz @ 12dB/oct - both Audax need to be crossed over @ 400Hz @ 12dB/oct 

Kelvin


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## MBorgardt

DanMan said:


> Long story short: I have run the system in my signature for several years. I love it. I commute 3-4 hours a day. Love every minute of it. Seriously.
> 
> A long while back, I picked up these:Speaker Building Supplies from Madisound
> They come highly regarded. Winslow's recommendation was enough for me.
> 
> My ID x69's are in solid kicks under the horns. I planned to shoehorn the Audax midrange's into the doors. No easy feat. They would play from 175hz to 1200hz in the doors. The trade-off of axis in this range alone worries me. The x69's ability to play dedicated midbass 80hz to 175hz is a concern also.
> 
> So, any opinions as to why or why not this may be worth the effort?
> 
> P.S. I have posted similar query in the past. Looking for a fresh take on the matter.



Danman as long as you do not use a d class amp everything is good....


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## MBorgardt

subwoofery said:


> What do you guyz think about this:
> http://www.haut-parleurs.fr/fiches/audax/pr170z0.pdf
> ^ really has 98dB-99dB
> 
> Kelvin



Based of there data sheet that speaker has allot of energy stored in the cone... look at the waterfall and response curves you can see the correlation... the rise in response.... others words it will be bright.


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## thehatedguy

The aerogel version wasn't thought to sound as nice as the paper cones.


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## mitchyz250f

Subwoofer, I modeled the Z in unibox. 

At 1 watt I the PR170Z0 at [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
At 1 watt I the PR170M0 at 94db from 300Hz to 800Hz.
At 1 watt I the PHL at [email protected] and form 400Hz to 1000Hz 96 db.

So the Z is the most sensitive. The big difference between the Pr170M0 and PR170Z0 is the Fs. I would like to say that the Audax's specs are pretty much what they measure except the Le on my PR170M0s have all measured around .3.

Now, how does the Z sound?


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## subwoofery

mitchyz250f said:


> Subwoofer, I modeled the Z in unibox.
> 
> At 1 watt I the PR170Z0 at [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
> At 1 watt I the PR170M0 at 94db from 300Hz to 800Hz.
> At 1 watt I the PHL at [email protected] and form 400Hz to 1000Hz 96 db.
> 
> So the Z is the most sensitive. The big difference between the Pr170M0 and PR170Z0 is the Fs. I would like to say that the Audax's specs are pretty much what they measure except the Le on my PR170M0s have all measured around .3.
> 
> Now, how does the Z sound?


From the old Audax.fr website: (translated with google translate) 


> Aerogel: exclusive Audax, cellulose structure
> While retaining the advantages of paper, the airgel provides improved low range (as treated paper) without distortion high frequencies.
> Thus, a reproduction very "clear" mediums.


clean, crisp and dynamic/lively

Kelvin


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## mitchyz250f

I found this:
"between the 2 audax's the MO is easier to work with. In particular the ZO can be considerably better than the MO -IF- it is being driven by an amplifier with a high output impeadance, otherwise it sounds a little "constricted" (sometimes a LOT more constricted). (btw, it also takes a LOT longer to break-in.). IF you are worried about foam rot from the MO then consider a damping compound (to apply to the surround) that has UV protection. I think Lambda Acoustics used this stuff on their surrounds - so you might try contacting Nick to find out what the product is. (and I have NO idea what his website is now..)"
Audax PR170M0 vs PR170Z0 vs PHL1120 - diyAudio

The comment about foam rot only applies to old PR170M0's, the new ones come with a protective sticky dampining compound applied at the factory.

What is 'high output impedence' in regards to an amp?


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## thehatedguy

The impedence of the output stage of the amp.


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## subwoofery

mitchyz250f said:


> What is 'high output impedence' in regards to an amp?


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1514488-post183.html 

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy

Kelvin, that was input impedence mentioned in that post but you could apply the same logic for what we are talking about.


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## subwoofery

thehatedguy said:


> Kelvin, that was input impedence mentioned in that post but you could apply the same logic for what we are talking about.


lol... It was clearly "input" in my mind, sorry :blush: 

Kelvin


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## DanMan

Well, I started to mock up some baffles and see what it would take to get these PR170MO's into the cheesy little doors of my aging Civic. I realized why I swore off door speakers in the past.

Bottom line-I aint up to the task. 

I love my X69/Ultra Mini horn fronts. Would love to try some full bodies. Maybe I'll do that. Or maybe I'll keep enjoying as is.

I'd love to use the Audax drivers in a home loudspeaker build. If anybody has any ideas, let me know.

Although I am not much for selling stuff if anybody wants the PR170MO's for sale or trade, let me know.

Thanks, all!


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## thehatedguy

I think if I go to a 3 way front, it's going to hard to pick a midrange other than the Audax.


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## nucci

thehatedguy said:


> I think if I go to a 3 way front, it's going to hard to pick a midrange other than the Audax.


If you did that, where would you put them? Aiming a 6.5 mid isn't the easiest thing to do.


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## thehatedguy

With the horns aiming 6s or7s isn't critical.

If I went larger and dedicated midbasses they would have to be in the rear.


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## D-Bass

thehatedguy said:


> The aerogel version wasn't thought to sound as nice as the paper cones.


I've never heard the papercone ones. I do have a set of the 4" aerogels in one of my home audio enclosures and they sound fantastic. They are the round ones, before the basket/mounting flange to the octagon. and with dustcaps instead of phase plug


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