# 12W7 vs 10W6v2



## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

...from a pure audiophile perspective

Just purchased a 10W6v2 the other day and put it at the pasenger's feet. A sealed 0.66cuft MDF enclosure was made for it. The 12W7 has a 1.375cuft (both boxes are identical with the ones recommended by JL). First off all, i must mention i have only listened to 10W6 for about 3 hrs so the sub is not fully burned in. After each hour of listening i felt the performance was improving considerably and it still does. As u would expect, this little baby doesn't have the output of the 12" in the area 20-30Hz but after that it hits very fast and blends with the 8" mids better than the 12W7. Again, there is no damping of the box yet so things might improve even more after i will dampen it. After setting the level to the ear i did some RTA measurements and found the sound to be very linear wich tells me this sub has enough output even at 20Hz. As for cutting points, if the 12W7 was able to be precise only up to [email protected]/oct, i found that with the 10" i can go up to [email protected] slope without being boomy !


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I definetly think you should try an Idmax. I heard your system and I see the way your system is going. The w6 to w7 comarisons have been around for a while, most have claimed w6 is better for sq purposes while many still got w7s for fure enjoyment factor and incredible bottom end. I just got a pair of IdMs and I firmly believe these are epitome of the sq sub. I'm more of an sql quy, I like a little bit of everything, and the max proved to be an allstar across the board, no tradoffs. Your " "next to the w7 tells me there will be something you'll miss from that sub, maybe you like a bit of spl yourself. 

Not to mention that rugged vrx monoblock. It's a waste on a 10w6. I would try a dual 4ohm max, 10 or 12 at least for the experience with ID stuff.


----------



## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

I'll give this a try first since i've already got it. IDMax is a little bit hard to find on this side of the world  I will soon make the custom enclosure at the passenger's feet and dampen it properly. If i won't be satisfied i will try other configurations either !


----------



## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

Having heard quite a few super subs I would most likely take a JBL WGTi over pretty much anything else on the car audio market. Altho I should mention that from the systems that I have heard over this past year my favorite midbass/subbass setup uses Peerless XLS 8 midbasses and a single Diamond Audio D6. Just so effortless and accurate. Honestly that setup is one of the very best sounding subbasses that I have heard in my life... and I have heard quite a few... 

If you're not happy with the new W6 I would give the JBL WGTi a try.

Cheers

Leo


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

any substage will sound good with the xls 8s up front 

I can get you an Idmax shipped fuscobal.


----------



## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

300Z said:


> Having heard quite a few super subs I would most likely take a JBL WGTi over pretty much anything else on the car audio market. Altho I should mention that from the systems that I have heard over this past year my favorite midbass/subbass setup uses Peerless XLS 8 midbasses and a single Diamond Audio D6. Just so effortless and accurate. Honestly that setup is one of the very best sounding subbasses that I have heard in my life... and I have heard quite a few...
> 
> If you're not happy with the new W6 I would give the JBL WGTi a try.
> 
> ...



thats funny, i've got xls up front and w12gti in the back right now (being switched for an Aura mr15.4 once i have time)... although the doors are going to need some more work and need to make new baffles.


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Ah.. I love the w7. I've had no problems using it up to 120-150hz and having it utterly disappear.


----------



## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

npdang said:


> Ah.. I love the w7. I've had no problems using it up to 120-150hz and having it utterly disappear.


    

Incredible. For me, anything past 50Hz was boomy with that sub and i used the JL recommended sealed box and a very good amplifier ! I did time align in every combination possible. The only substantial improvement was when i moved it to the front, at the passenger's feet !


----------



## ATB (Aug 30, 2005)

What size box does the JBL take? I downloaded the "owners" manual from the JLB site an it includes not one piece of info that would give an indication. No parameters, no recomended box sizes.


----------



## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

ATB said:


> What size box does the JBL take? I downloaded the "owners" manual from the JLB site an it includes not one piece of info that would give an indication. No parameters, no recomended box sizes.


You probably downloaded the wrong pdf... If I'm not mistaken JBL recommend 1cu.ft sealed for the 12". But I think the optimum is somewhere between 1.25-1.4cu.ft. I have listened to a single W12GTi in as large as 1.7cu.ft if I'm not mistaken, can't remember it's been too long. I would stick with the 1.25cu.ft box, that sub has plenty of low end and going with the larger box would just make the low end exaggerated IMO.

Leo


----------



## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

300Z said:


> You probably downloaded the wrong pdf... If I'm not mistaken JBL recommend 1cu.ft sealed for the 12". But I think the optimum is somewhere between 1.25-1.4cu.ft. I have listened to a single W12GTi in as large as 1.7cu.ft if I'm not mistaken, can't remember it's been too long. I would stick with the 1.25cu.ft box, that sub has plenty of low end and going with the larger box would just make the low end exaggerated IMO.
> 
> Leo


 yea recommended size is 1cf sealed. mines in about 1.3cf and it's awesome


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

fuscobal said:


> Incredible. For me, anything past 50Hz was boomy with that sub and i used the JL recommended sealed box and a very good amplifier ! I did time align in every combination possible. The only substantial improvement was when i moved it to the front, at the passenger's feet !


 Have you tried using an eq to flatten the response? I'm not sure what the JL recommended enclosure was but I recall using something much larger.


----------



## Nothingness (Mar 31, 2005)

kappa546 said:


> thats funny, i've got xls up front and w12gti in the back right now (being switched for an Aura mr15.4 once i have time)... although the doors are going to need some more work and need to make new baffles.


How do you like the XLS8 vs. the W12GTI for 150hz and down, say...?


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

are you trying to compare an 8 and a 12 for 150Hz and down???


----------



## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

It's not hard to achieve flat response up to 120-150hz... or at least I never had such problems. My Diamond D6 plays flat up to 125hz no problem... In fact I have it low passed at 100hz right now to compensate for the 4" mids up front with no major peaks or dips in the FR...


----------



## oldloder (Nov 30, 2005)

Can you detect the location of the sub running it that high?


----------



## amator (May 3, 2006)

im also currently running a 10W6V2 in a 0.75cu ft sealed box . Previously it was a 12w3 in a 1 cu ft box. I havent touched the gains on my JL 500/1 sub amp
Have found that the 10w6 is much better in blending in with mid bass but output seems to be curtailed below 40hz. In fact overall sounds a lot softer than the 12w3.


----------



## amator (May 3, 2006)

anyone know what the effects (gd and bad) will be if i increase the size from 0.75 to 1 cu foot for the 10w6v2  
I m pretty sure o.75 is what JL recemmonded.

will i get more output and fuller bass or possibly just go boomy and uncontrolled?
Im looking for a little bit more bloom not boom. :


----------



## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

Nothingness said:


> How do you like the XLS8 vs. the W12GTI for 150hz and down, say...?


havent tried running it that high. jbl is crossed at 60-70hz 24db/oct


----------



## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

I did try to flatten the response with an EQ but it still sounded boomy in the trunk. I can assume the JL recommended box is more like an SQL enclosure and not a pure SQ one. I must also remind you that boomy for me was something NOBODY else than me noticed in my car while listening to this sub lowpassed even at 60Hz. It is not at all something very obvious but it is there. Of course, i do not include here modern comercial dance music where the recordings are super exagerated on sub-bass notes and any sub will sound boomy. As for the W6v2 i've set the sub level at my ear and then used an RTA. The response was perfectly flat from 20 to 80HZ and there's no boominess at all on decent recordings !


----------



## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

If what you say is true then I wont upgrade my 10w6v2. I have it in a .75cu ft. sealed box and the bass is very upfront but not as low as some other subs Ive owned.


----------



## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

oldloder said:


> Can you detect the location of the sub running it that high?


On some tracks yes, but not all that much... It's more like the sub is everywhere instead of like it's just in the back, On other tracks it's sounds like it's completely up front. This is with the sub low passed at 100hz 24/oct and little bit of time alignment.

Also worth of mention is that I'm running only 4" mids upfront...


----------



## amator (May 3, 2006)

andthelam said:


> If what you say is true then I wont upgrade my 10w6v2. I have it in a .75cu ft. sealed box and the bass is very upfront but not as low as some other subs Ive owned.


Using RTA, there seems to be pretty much nothing below 40hz. i have it in a 0.75cu ft box too.


----------



## The Blue Blur (Sep 14, 2006)

that is tremendously odd to me. What is supposed to be a subwoofer is more like an overgrown dedicated mono midbass?


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

300Z said:


> Having heard quite a few super subs I would most likely take a JBL WGTi over pretty much anything else on the car audio market. Altho I should mention that from the systems that I have heard over this past year my favorite midbass/subbass setup uses Peerless XLS 8 midbasses and a single Diamond Audio D6. Just so effortless and accurate. Honestly that setup is one of the very best sounding subbasses that I have heard in my life... and I have heard quite a few...
> 
> If you're not happy with the new W6 I would give the JBL WGTi a try.
> 
> ...


.


can you compare the new gti to the old version?


----------



## amator (May 3, 2006)

The Blue Blur said:


> that is tremendously odd to me. What is supposed to be a subwoofer is more like an overgrown dedicated mono midbass?


have been told 1 cu foot would make it go lower.


----------



## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Any sub will go lower in a bigger box. U can make simulations and play with the volume until u get the QTC u want. Weird what u've seen with your RTA. For me it was flat until 20Hz and when i applied a HPF at 16Hz i felt a very small diference. I don't know what to say. The 12W7 had much more authority down low but if the W6 is flat until 20Hz how low can W7 go and still be felt by the human ear ? I forgot to measure the W7 too


----------



## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Hmm, Amator, after what you said, I've measured the box and it seems the boys made it bigger than Jl recommended. It seems it has 1cuft instead of 0.625 (recommended) and i guess that's why it stays flat until 20Hz. What's interesting, is that it doesn't loose precision also compared with the midbass and blends very well !


----------



## amator (May 3, 2006)

fuscobal said:


> Hmm, Amator, after what you said, I've measured the box and it seems the boys made it bigger than Jl recommended. It seems it has 1cuft instead of 0.625 (recommended) and i guess that's why it stays flat until 20Hz. What's interesting, is that it doesn't loose precision also compared with the midbass and blends very well !


It looks like i shld redo till 1 cu feet then  Though It blends totally with the midbass now and appears totally upfront. There is however NO low end authority or 'bloom"


----------



## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

amator said:


> It looks like i shld redo till 1 cu feet then  Though It blends totally with the midbass now and appears totally upfront. There is however NO low end authority or 'bloom"


Right now, my initial impressions after a month of ownership is that amator is right...

I believe my box is around .7 cubic feet....hard to measure since it's fiberglass behind a wrapped quarter panel in the back of the car. 

The only thing I can do is stuff with polyfill....


----------



## amator (May 3, 2006)

Fellippe said:


> Right now, my initial impressions after a month of ownership is that amator is right...
> 
> I believe my box is around .7 cubic feet....hard to measure since it's fiberglass behind a wrapped quarter panel in the back of the car.
> 
> The only thing I can do is stuff with polyfill....


Im also gonna stuff mine with polyfill, last resort will be slightly bigger to 1 Cu foot. 
I tried to play a bit of bass boost and Q ard 20-25hz using my Jl 500/1 but havent concluded whether its natural sounding enough.


----------



## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Hmm, don't know if a boost at 20Hz won't stress that 10" driver too much. I don't think a boost will be able to replace the smaller cone area of a 12 or 15" driver. I did play with the boost on someone else's 10" driver and i felt the driver was stressed and unnatural sounding !


----------



## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

None of these problems are present in ANY sub from Image Dynamics. Is it worth messing around with subs that don't have bottom end? If they don't all they are is a midbass driver.


----------



## amator (May 3, 2006)

will the 10w6v2 play optimally upwards to 85 to 90hz.


----------



## avaxis (May 23, 2006)

i own a 10w6v2 as well, in the box size recommended by JL Audio <0.7cuft3. i feel there's not much kick to it (compared to, say a 12" XLS) and its very subtle and blends very well with the mids. 

what can be done?


----------



## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

avaxis said:


> its very subtle and blends very well with the mids.
> 
> what can be done?


Sit back and enjoy an install well done.


----------



## avaxis (May 23, 2006)

what i meant to say is that..it doesn't feel like it goes low enough..


----------



## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

avaxis said:


> what i meant to say is that..it doesn't feel like it goes low enough..


It's interesting, just a few posts above I'm knocking it for the same reason you are...

Now, I feel like going low enough isn't really the priority anymore but midbass integration. I feel the sub could some some EQing in the lower octaves to smoothen out the sound when I really crank them. 

As for low end response, increasing amplifier power and/or increasing enclosure size would be my best bet...I've done the former and it's helped a lot. You could try polyfill if you can't rebuild your enclosure.

In an ideal world, multiple subs in big enclosures would solve all of the problems we run into.


----------



## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

so the 10w6 sounds better when placed in the passanger footwell compared to the 12w7 in the trunk. who would have guessed?


----------



## cal_bot (Mar 11, 2008)

IMO JL tends to be too conservative in their recommended volumes, experiment if you can. just my $.02


----------



## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Jumping from 0.7cuft to 1cuft would help you go lower and blend it with your midbass even better !


----------



## mark1478 (Nov 11, 2009)

GlasSman said:


> None of these problems are present in ANY sub from Image Dynamics. Is it worth messing around with subs that don't have bottom end? If they don't all they are is a midbass driver.



im very interested in that IDMAX sub. problem is my fiberglass enclosure would have to be modificated by adding a 1/2 inch ring to it..changing the .8 box to a bigger box. The JL wouldnt present that problem, but im very interested in trying since the reviews since to be so good on them.


----------



## avaxis (May 23, 2006)

avaxis said:


> what i meant to say is that..it doesn't feel like it goes low enough..


well.. 2 years plus down the road, i blew my 10w6v2 today while i was playing music real loud trying to stay awake. really, it didn't felt it was hitting hard down low 

anyway.. should i get the 12w7 now? the amp is a JL Audio 500/1..I don't intend to change amps. but it seems the 12w7 is power hungry..

the 10w6v2 was fine, it just didn't hit hard enough.. it blended well, was fast..mids are G18RNX + LPG 25nfa


----------



## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

I would choose a more efficient subwoofer since you will use "only" 500rms: 
AE Speakers --- Superb Quality, Unforgettable Performance, Definitely. 

In the right box, they'll hit lows, hit hard and blend with your mids better than a lot of subs out there. 

Get the biggest sub you can (taking into account the enclosure size) 

Kelvin 

PS: they can custom subs to have a 4ohm voice coil.


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

avaxis said:


> well.. 2 years plus down the road, i blew my 10w6v2 today while i was playing music real loud trying to stay awake. really, it didn't felt it was hitting hard down low
> 
> anyway.. should i get the 12w7 now? the amp is a JL Audio 500/1..I don't intend to change amps. but it seems the 12w7 is power hungry..
> 
> the 10w6v2 was fine, it just didn't hit hard enough.. it blended well, was fast..mids are G18RNX + LPG 25nfa


The w7 would be a fine upgrade. Contrary to popular belief, the w7 on 500 watts will be plenty.


----------

