# Boland Audio-a new USA made amp option



## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I don't see a post yet on here, so I'll give some info here...

Bernie Boland, the guy who started PPI and then left to start Orion (he worked for Fosgate before and during the Rockford fosgate name change before starting PPI) is back into car audio with a new company called Boland Audio.

I can't reveal too much more than what he's releasing, but he has a booth at CES right now and he's building interest in his new amp line. They will be USA made and many custom options will be available to get the perfect amp for your system.

It'll be a modern throwback to his old designs both from Orion and PPI. Check out these pics that he posted to his Facebook group:

A tribute to Orion, this amp is modern internals with retro styling.









Liquid cooled 'art' series...you do the math. 









Convection cooled 'art' series...









And early specs on the SQ series...


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

interesting! want more info


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm not authorized to release info before Bernie releases it, but as soon as he lets me I'll put up some info here.


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## BassnTruck (May 27, 2010)

All A-A/B, not interested. I know it "looks" like a clone, but it might as well be an exact clone. Not many people want a massive heater in the car these days, unless you own a TDI in the winter.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Sorry to see you say that bass. I don't agree that it's just a heater. It does use modern technology to add efficiency to the amps without loosing the quality of the a-a/b amps. I've talked with Bernie extensively about his technology and I assure you that these are not just remakes of old designs. He actually came up with some of these ideas 30 years ago but they were not feasible due to technology available then. Now it's totally doable and makes for one hell of an amp design.

To each their own though. I hope not too many people don't share your pessimistic opinion.


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## BassnTruck (May 27, 2010)

It is simply the laws of physics. Class a-a/b amps are grossly inefficient. It is part of their design. I am in the camp that you can not tell the difference between any amp if they are putting out the same wattage and not clipping. So have an inefficient amp just for that sake does not appeal to me.

They may and well work great. *I think* he needs to come up with a super efficient class D or T unit. I understand many of the older EEs do not like to learn how to design a new topology then what they did 30 or 40 years ago.

I wish him the best, he will not be getting any of my money with his current offerings.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Liquid cooled? That gimmick has been tried before. And if he used a more efficient class D topology, liquid cooling wouldn't be necessary. I'm in the same camp as Bassntruck. The hyper efficient class D designs are the future for 12v. New companies slinging old tech don't do anything for me. And the only thing made in the USA means for amplifiers is a 300% higher price tag. 

It might be a great product, but all I see here is another boutique 12v company like Tru Tech. I do hope he does well with the brand, but he won't be getting my money.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Picture shows forced air induction, not convection. 
Liquid cooled amplifiers is engineering nonesense. 
It's either gimmick or bad engineering . 
And for that reason I'm out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## stills (Apr 13, 2008)

I'd hit it. Don't really love the look of the "art" series, but I could live with it. 

Fwiw I could careless what class amp I use. As long as it fills my needs and doesn't color the sound in an unpleasant way, I'll use it.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

He said he has some class D stuff coming later


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

Yeah who cares about car audio in general..but even less about big AB amps.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

stills said:


> Fwiw I could careless what class amp I use. As long as it fills my needs and doesn't color the sound in an unpleasant way, I'll use it.


I don't specifically care what class an amplifier is. What I do care about is efficiency. You said it yourself, " as long as it fills my needs". A few of my specific needs are big power, small chassis, and lowest possible current draw. When all is said and done, I might end up with anywhere from 8-15 channels of power. The only category that these amplifiers would fit is big power. If this guy has figured out how to get class A-A/B amplifiers for be 85% efficient and is able to shrink the case to a reasonably small footprint, I'd consider them. The only reason I reference class D is that, at the moment, class D amplifiers are the only ones that meet my criteria.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Does Boland have a website?

Edit: Found it: http://www.bolandaudio.com/

But not much there yet.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Made in Arizona goodness. ... hmmmmmmmmm, my brain ball is spinning now.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I laughed at the typo (possibly?) "Follow us Toady & Stay Informed"

I immediately thought of Audiofrog. 

Back to it, I think the liquid cooling concept is gimmick (but potentially useful in very specific hidden-style installs) but otherwise I'm interested. Small, potent amps with big power is the future, and the more channels, the better. Example, JL's xD series with the 6 and 8 channel options. If you want staggered power for your midbass, then you bridge some, which is a pretty doggone efficient use of power. 

I like the idea of being made in the USA. I don't have delusions about that meaning it is a better amp because of it, but it does mean it is better for 'Merica.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

As previously mentioned, there are plans also for class D amps. What I posted was the SQ series. The DB series will be class D, and there's going to be a third line as well.

They will be customizable in the future to have multi channels and staggered. 

It's funny, I hear complaints about everything being class D China made crap, now everyone complains about USA made class A/b. Lol I guess there's no winning with this crowd.


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## capea4 (Sep 2, 2010)

vwdave said:


> As previously mentioned, there are plans also for class D amps. What I posted was the SQ series. The DB series will be class D, and there's going to be a third line as well.
> 
> They will be customizable in the future to have multi channels and staggered.
> 
> It's funny, I hear complaints about everything being class D China made crap, now everyone complains about USA made class A/b. Lol I guess there's no winning with this crowd.


you win with me


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

I'm curious to see what's offered in the other lines as far as customization and whatnot but really as far as the SQ series I can't see what he's trying to accomplish here. If I want something that looks like an old Orion I'll go buy an old Orion. 1/.5 ohm stable? Why? I'd much rather see something that puts out more power at higher impedances so I didn't have to bridge all my amps to get the power I want. The liquid cooling idea is just dumb unless he's making amps so small and powerful that it's absolutely necessary. To me it seems like he's still stuck in 1990.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Also, I want ALL the amps to be SQ amps. 

Know what I mean?


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

I find it ironic ....
The web site says
"How is Boland Audio creating a new Era for Car Audio?"

The answer seems to be that the "missing link" has been found.

What is the missing link? Seems like it's building old school orion and ppi gear. 

I think we have seen how old school gear doesn't sell and is a bad idea. to bad.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

fourthmeal said:


> Also, I want ALL the amps to be SQ amps.
> 
> Know what I mean?


^^^^^^ This

Why does this industry thrive on the fallacy that only A-A/B amps are "SQ" amps, and everything else are just "regular" amps? Why can't class D amps be "SQ" amps, too?


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## DBlevel (Oct 6, 2006)

AAAAAAA said:


> I find it ironic ....
> The web site says
> "How is Boland Audio creating a new Era for Car Audio?"
> 
> ...



Doesn't sell and a bad idea? Why is that?


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

Just posted this on FB.
https://youtu.be/9-AQY4NrwrU

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

^what the....


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

DBlevel said:


> Doesn't sell and a bad idea? Why is that?


Just look back at soundstream coming out with their big sq class ab line. Got discontinued because lack of sales. Top companies are moving forward with technology... Not just rehashing.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

I am ok with class a/b amps being touted as sq amps, the buyers of these higher priced, larger footprint amps are more likely to be the ones that will be less willing to compromise, I'm ok with that. class d is here to stay and even I'm using a bit of it, but only on bass lol.

I wish more would do class h/I type stuff like the crown k2 amps I have.


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## DBlevel (Oct 6, 2006)

AAAAAAA said:


> Just look back at soundstream coming out with their big sq class ab line. Got discontinued because lack of sales. Top companies are moving forward with technology... Not just rehashing.


Means nothing.......

Anything else you have?


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

Onyx1136 said:


> It might be a great product, but all I see here is another boutique 12v company like Tru Tech.


This is exactly what's going to happen. The market for these amps is only going to appeal to a fraction of a percent of the car audio community. Not sure where the void is that he's trying to fill unless he's just trying to cash in on the nostalgic aspect of old school hype marketing.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I think the line of amps being posted here are going to be their flagship amps with a flagship, made in the USA price to match. The buyers will be few and far between. These are supposed to be shipping in just a couple of months. 

If Boland plans to be more than a niche brand like TRU, I think he is going to rely on his other amp lines, such as the upcoming DB Class D amps at a lower price point. Assuming he will take the production for those off shore in order to be competitive with the rest of the market. Those are supposed to be available in June. There is also supposed to be pricing information (not sure which lines) posted on their FB page soon as well.

I also find it interesting that both Boland and D'Amore are venturing back into the high end SQ amp game. Both were mentioned in the CES 2016 thread.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

hurrication said:


> Not sure where the void is that he's trying to fill unless he's just trying to cash in on the nostalgic aspect of old school hype marketing.


There is no void being filled with amplifiers like these. You hit the nail on the head; this is a product fueled by nostalgia. Why else would your flagship amplifier look like a clone of an amplifier you built 30 years ago? 

And then to talk about how you found the "missing link" in amplifier design. Product development and design should be driven by science and engineering. When companies start talking about their special sauce, it makes me extremely suspicious. That's why companies like Audiofrog appeal to me. They aren't trying to further the myths that are so pervasive in this industry. They're actively working to demonstrate that it's solid engineering and science that makes good sound, not electrical voodoo.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

dallasneon said:


> Just posted this on FB.
> https://youtu.be/9-AQY4NrwrU
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Cool video. Now I get it.
So... can we get that modular core in an Xtant (90's) enclosure? 
(Without all the screws at the top please.)


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

All of you saying that this is a rehash because they are class A/B and the heat sink looks old, you are dead wrong.

I've discussed the design with Bernie and the amp design is a very cool idea. I can see why he calls it a missing link. It's combining the efficiency of class D with the sound reproduction qualities of class A and A/B.

I'm not gonna try to convince anyone here that this is a brand to consider. I see how closed all of these minds are and I can see the few here who have an open mind. These are not amps for everyone, I just always considered diyma to be an sq based forum and figured that sq people would be excited to see a new option, whether it works for you or not.

I've had a few people PM me asking for more info, thank you. I'll just stick with PMs to those who care from now on.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

don't feel hard done by the people questioning this amp or negatively commenting, it comes with the territory on here. its a niche market product sure, but it has to prove itself to the members here just like any other product does.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

I think most knowledgeable people don't buy into "magic sq" anymore, at least way less then they use to before. Mystique and secret sauce doesn't work so much with informed customers.

And frankly that was the spirit of this forum, dismantling BS and digging into facts, getting value... contrary to what our relatively newcomer VWDave would believe


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

vwdave said:


> All of you saying that this is a rehash because they are class A/B and the heat sink looks old, you are dead wrong.
> 
> I've discussed the design with Bernie and the amp design is a very cool idea. I can see why he calls it a missing link. It's combining the efficiency of class D with the sound reproduction qualities of class A and A/B.
> 
> ...





Lycancatt said:


> don't feel hard done by the people questioning this amp or negatively commenting, it comes with the territory on here. its a niche market product sure, but it has to prove itself to the members here just like any other product does.


Any and every company that gets in, or gets 'back into' car audio is a thing we should all rejoice. I'll be ready to hear Boland's new amps with bells on and probably walk away with the same giggle I had after finally hearing that old chestnut, Rockford Power series, amps in a champion-quality car. That brand us SQ'y guys scoff at. 

I've learned I don't freakin' care what class this or that or the other.. If the gear brings it, then party on Wayne!


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

cool to see someone getting back in the game, but will wait and see. What I liked in my 20's is different than what I like in my 40's. There was a time when I would fill a hatch with subs and surf board sized amps, now not so much. Again like people said earlier, he will have different lines coming. Class D could end up being the bread and butter and the big A/B could be the select line for sq. Also that will bring up the other argument that you cant hear the difference between a good class D amp and old school A/B. Will see when they roll out.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

vwdave said:


> All of you saying that this is a rehash because they are class A/B and the heat sink looks old, you are dead wrong.
> 
> I've discussed the design with Bernie and the amp design is a very cool idea. I can see why he calls it a missing link. It's combining the efficiency of class D with the sound reproduction qualities of class A and A/B.
> 
> ...


It doesn't sound like you really understand what's happening here. A lot of people here have a very healthy skepticism when it comes to new products and new companies. Over the last 20-30 years, depending on who you are, we've seen company after company launch new products claiming to be the newest, latest, greatest, most amazing advancements in sound quality and electronics design. Everything from crystals that go on top of home towers to little red dots that go on the cons of the speaker have been touted on here as the new secret sauce for achieving new levels of sound quality nirvana. 

I've seen companies come around touting everything from nearly 100% efficiency and zero failure rate, to a lifetime warranty. All proved to be either complete ********, or bad ideas that proved unsustainable for a business that wished to be profitable. I've seen the modular heatsinks and water cooling before, as well. 

The other thing we've seen before is the hush-hush announcement of new technology. You said in your first post that you couldn't release details of the design in the open forum. But apparently you can now give details in PM's? That doesn't make much sense to me. Either you can talk about it or you can't. Why the secrecy? If Mr. Boland has developed a new way to build amps with A-A/B sound quality and class D efficiency, surely it's something he's patented. Or at the very least is patent pending. If he's found the "missing link" to amplifier design as he says, then surely this is the most significant advancement in amplifier design in the last 30 years, and it would have to be a patentable, defendable intellectual property. 

What you describe as closed minded, I see as being guarded against more sound quality audio voodoo. Too many people have sunk too much money over the last few decades into companies that promise audio miracles, but only provide the same old thing over and over again. 

But, here's the kicker, I want to be wrong. If Bernie has truly managed to do what no one else in the history of electronic amplification has been able to, and can make a class A-A/B amplifier as efficient as a class D, it would be a truly revolutionary design advancement. And I hope he has. But, unfortunately for us, there hasn't been provided any proof, evidence, measurements, or objective analysis of any kind so far. Just one random guy on one random forum vouching for it. That doesn't work for me. I need real, tangible, verifiable, repeatable measurements. That is the burden of proof that I require. 

If you, or even better Mr. Boland, want to provide the evidence to back up the claims being made, I'd love to see it, and so would many others I presume. Effiency testing is easy. Really easy. A 2 minute YouTube video can prove a lot of things and shut down almost all the naysayers. I think everyone here would love to see proof of such a revolutionary design advancement. Personally, I'll be keeping an eye on the brand just to see if any of the special sauce that's being touted will ever be proven. I hope it is. I love being wrong. But, it's up to the party making the most fantastic claims to prove their claims. 

Don't confuse skepticism with closed-mindedness. Forums like this one have created a new consumer. One that has embraced the buyer-beware philosophy because they have been burned before, and in some cases repeatedly. Some of us are, understandably, very jaded. The new breed of consumer embraces science and objective measurements. Any new product not accompanied by the necessary science is met with skepticism and mistrust. This should be a lesson to anyone wanting to launch a new company or product. Transparency in the initial information release solves a lot of problems before they occur. When I hear someone say "I can't talk about it here", the red flags go up immediately, and I get extremely suspicious.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I would agree with Onyx1136.

Also, keep in mind OP, we're talking about a yet-unreleased product so there's initial snap judgement happening, based on extremely limited info. It would be a very boring thread if we didn't openly speak our opinions, even if those opinions are not from a fully informed perspective. Limited info = limitless opinion, conjecture from opinion, and so on. So relax, let's see where it all goes, and let's keep the information coming. PM's do nothing to further our knowledge collectively. I know I shy away from PM's when people ask questions whose answers could collectively help all. It isn't a forum if you don't take a little flak. Taking it personally is a mistake, IMO.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I hope Boland makes it. His products will have to prove themselves first. Too bad he'll be competing with brands that are made as cheaply as possible overseas. However, if he makes an amp that is clean, reliable, and powerful without breaking the bank I think he'll do just fine as long as he doesn't have too much overhead. I am a fan of a/b amps with forced cooling to keep the big sinks out of the picture.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

vwdave said:


> I've discussed the design with Bernie and the amp design is a very cool idea. I can see why he calls it a missing link. It's combining the efficiency of class D with the sound reproduction qualities of class A and A/B.


I know fuse size isn't a reliable indicator of power or efficiency but looking at the 4 channel amp that even at 2 ohm is rated at 400w total and the fact that it needs 80a worth of onboard fusing would seem to indicate that they're possibly not as efficient as he claims.


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## asianinvasion21 (Sep 24, 2012)

vwdave said:


> As previously mentioned, there are plans also for class D amps. What I posted was the SQ series. The DB series will be class D, and there's going to be a third line as well.
> 
> They will be customizable in the future to have multi channels and staggered.
> 
> It's funny, I hear complaints about everything being class D China made crap, now everyone complains about USA made class A/b. Lol I guess there's no winning with this crowd.


So true lol, Im actually weird and like large A/b amps makes the install more complicated which is half the fun of car audio.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

asianinvasion21 said:


> So true lol, Im actually weird and like large A/b amps makes the install more complicated which is half the fun of car audio.


To each their own. I'm more interested in something that resembles Andy Wehmeyer's Mercedes. One big processor/amplifier in the trunk that runs the whole thing in a single chassis, with super high efficiency and a completely useable trunk space. That's the future of car audio, IMHO. I'm completely done with the days of a trunk that's unusable because it's crammed full of huge amps, tons of wiring, gigantic subwoofer enclosures and spare batteries. 

The older I get, the fewer compromises I'm willing to make for great audio. And I feel like, in 2015, it shouldn't be necessary to make a ton of compromises for great audio. The technology is out there, we as consumers just have to embrace it.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

Nice looking amplifiers and very impressive specs, i wonder if Mr Boland will also market the pump, radiator and reservoir for the liquid cooled unit..
And i would definitely like to see some amp guts


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

It's true that I am partial to this on many fronts (it's an Arizona company, it has old school heritage and it resembles the surf board aesthetic style) but the one thing that really makes me smile is the made in USA potential here. I hope that this will be the catalyst for more car audio products that are made in America.


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Lycancatt said:


> don't feel hard done by the people questioning this amp or negatively commenting, it comes with the territory on here. its a niche market product sure, but it has to prove itself to the members here just like any other product does.


Indeed...

The A/AB bar is pretty high, and I've yet to hear another amp do what my existing amps cannot...

I'd be happy to audition Boland's offerings, but they'll have to do some pretty amazing things to get my serious attention.


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

I don't usually like amp bickering, but I feel that the majority of the reasons why we are not using class A/B amps anymore is simply space and power. The Alpine pdx line revolutionized the way amp packaging and power in one package, even stackable can create and replace a myriad of large A/B amps. 

With that said I didn't enjoy my stint with the OE pdx-5 and later pdx-1.1000 and 4.150. They sounded nothing like my Zapco Studio amps and have reverted back. I have heard the version 2 amps are much better. I have don't have enough money to throw around to "try" those to see if they are better or equal sounding to my larger Zapco's.

So the other reason I believe there has been a shift is due to our insatiable greed for the ever evolving SUV so space and theft is a concern. There isn't a flat panel of any size that you can put a pair of A/B amps anymore compared to just stuffing them in a trunk or hanging them on the back of a fixed seat back. The OEM's have gone about this problem by designing amps (with processing) that fit behind stock panels. 

So in my basic opinion and no one else's the key to success is to build a tiny amp with Bluetooth controls so when tucked away behind the factory panels can be adjusted and never seen. 

I loved that Soundstream came out with the New Reference series and the finish was beautiful! I just don't have room to stack them up in my SUV and wire each one just to have similar power to the vaunted PDX line.

I am all for the underdog and American made 100%, but I'm not sure that the average penny pinching consumer is. Wal-Mart is a good indicator if you must.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

vwdave said:


> It's funny, I hear complaints about everything being class D China made crap, now everyone complains about USA made class A/b. Lol I guess there's no winning with this crowd.


Everyone wants car audio gear made in the USA like it was in the 80's and 90's. What they fail to recall is that amps, subs, etc. were very expensive back in the day. It was very common for amps to be priced at $2 per watt and even more. Heck, my first amps were a pair of Rockford Fosgate Punch 45's. Cost me $289 each...for 45 watts. For the same price now, I can get 900-1000 watts and it will be very clean. 

On Bernie's amps, I hope he does well. Seems like a really nice guy. But, I think his target customers are going to be very few. And what happens after you service that small fraction of the car audio industry? 
The trend is going the other way...smaller, more efficient amps. Hopefully his class D stuff will address that.


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## Notwerk (Jan 11, 2010)

I wish him well, but I think Orion HCCA clones aren't going to fare well in today's market. Kids don't want - and can't afford - this stuff, and the older folks who have a nostalgiac connection to this stuff are at a point in our lives where we aren't interested in stuffing our cars with sub walls and amp racks. I can't see him selling many of these.

If he wants a product people might actually buy, he should look to the Mosconi Pico and Soundstream Nanos. If he offered a small, USA-made five-channel amp I could stuff under the seat of my car, I might be interested in that. But surfboard space heaters? I think those days are long past.

On a side note, if he wants to clone the a/d/s-designed HCCA components, I'll happily lay out cash for those.


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## Notwerk (Jan 11, 2010)

Onyx1136 said:


> ^^^^^^ This
> 
> Why does this industry thrive on the fallacy that only A-A/B amps are "SQ" amps, and everything else are just "regular" amps? Why can't class D amps be "SQ" amps, too?


I think class D already are "SQ" amps (if the manufacturer is at all forward-thinking), and that's sort of why this seems like a misadventure.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

Notwerk said:


> I think class D already are "SQ" amps (if the manufacturer is at all forward-thinking), and that's sort of why this seems like a misadventure.


The problem (some of us have) with Class D is it produces a square wave and interprets only half of the waveform, lot's of signal processing is required with Class D but they are VERY efficient and work extremely well with low impedance loads and low frequencies..

Class AB is not nearly as efficient but it's not a concern to most because the entire front stage is 4 ohm so very little heat is generated except for the sub which might be wired for 2 ohm and it might get warm but that's it, very little signal processing is required because there's always a little bit of bias current flowing through the transistors so the entire waveform is generated..

Some hybrids use Class AB-D topology for the best of both worlds, Class AB front stage and Class D sub..

Class D will keep improving but it's very difficult to accurately reproduce high frequencies without a ton of signal processing because it only see's half the waveform..

On that note i recently demoed a Jeep with a superb SQ system and it has Rockford Fosgate, Class D, Boosted Rail, Mini-amps and were tiny but the sound quality was right up there and had me rethinking my whole Class D argument..

The only problem being my Class AB amplifier sounds so damn good i couldn't even consider going back to Class D, not a chance..

For someone with limited space or smallish charging system like a compact car or motorcycle then Class D all the way..

If you have the available current and space for Class AB then there's really no reason why you should choose Class D..


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Say what about square waves and stuff.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> Say what about square waves and stuff.


I second this question.
Dude wtf r u talking about?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)




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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

I'm so glad to hear about this product. It has been long overdue. I wish more things were made with pride here in the USA. Of quality materials and craftsmanship. Made by a gentleman that has been involved with the companies that have made quality products in the past.

And for those of you who prefer the same cheaply made china stuff that is available today buy that. But keep your negative comments about an exciting new product to yourselves. No one wants to hear them.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

High Resolution Audio said:


> I'm so glad to hear about this product. It has been long overdue. I wish more things were made with pride here in the USA. Of quality materials and craftsmanship. Made by a gentleman that has been involved with the companies that have made quality products in the past.
> 
> And for those of you who prefer the same cheaply made china stuff that is available today buy that. But keep your negative comments about an exciting new product to yourselves. No one wants to hear them.


History lesson,really?
As of right now you know nothing about quality,just speculate. You might be right,or not.lets wait and see.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

High Resolution Audio said:


> I'm so glad to hear about this product. It has been long overdue. I wish more things were made with pride here in the USA. Of quality materials and craftsmanship. Made by a gentleman that has been involved with the companies that have made quality products in the past.
> 
> And for those of you who prefer the same cheaply made china stuff that is available today buy that. But keep your negative comments about an exciting new product to yourselves. No one wants to hear them.


MMATS higher end amps are made in the USA. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

Made in the USA is cool and i like buying from our own people but most popular name brand amplifiers are designed by American companies and built overseas simply because it is less expensive..

What's separates MMATS from the others is their advanced technology and commitment to sound quality, you know that even their economy line is top shelf and possibly a step above another manufacturers mid grade equipment, that's what i see different about MMATS..


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

High Resolution Audio said:


> And for those of you who prefer the same cheaply made china stuff that is available today buy that. But keep your negative comments about an exciting new product to yourselves. No one wants to hear them.


Interesting. Apparently I misunderstood what forums were for. I always thought they were for discussing topics, expressing different view points and exposing ourselves to information that we might not otherwise. Now that I know that only one opinion is allowed per topic, browsing forums will be much easier for me in the future. Thanx for simplifying my internet experience.


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## BassnTruck (May 27, 2010)

Onyx1136 said:


> Interesting. Apparently I misunderstood what forums were for. I always thought they were for discussing topics, expressing different view points and exposing ourselves to information that we might not otherwise. Now that I know that only one opinion is allowed per topic, browsing forums will be much easier for me in the future. Thanx for simplifying my internet experience.


Only when they further the agenda you prefer.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Ok so I've caught myself up on the responses, sorry I've been busy the last day or two.

I'm not explaining Bernies technology for 2 reasons: 
1) he explained it to me over the phone in confidence. It's not my place to talk about it in detail without his approval.
2) I don't fully understand it and if I try to explain it I'll probably get ripped apart by the naysayers. 

My intent with this thread was not to open a can of worms (which it looks like I did) it was to inform people who care that another brand is popping up.
For good or for bad, there will be another option for an American made amp. It's not meant for all. Don't expect it be available in your local
Bestbuy. It will be a boutique brand, at least at first, until a ne has been built.

For now I plan to refrain from further discussion as without the requisite tests, gut shots, and technology disclosure, all we have is disagreement and negativity.

I understand the skepticism, I am also a consumer who has been in car audio since 1995. I've been sold plenty of "magical sq machines" only to find that it's the same as anything else or worse.

I'm not asking anyone to trust me, give me money, or sign their name in approval. I'm just trying to inform everyone of a new product that will be hitting the market in the next few months.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

DAMNIT Dave! !! How dare you give notification of an emerging company! Lolololol


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Thanks for posting the information on this new product and company. I am looking forward to getting more information when it becomes available. As a matter of fact, I may purchase an amp and test it. Please let us know when the product becomes available.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

vwdave said:


> Ok so I've caught myself up on the responses, sorry I've been busy the last day or two.
> 
> I'm not explaining Bernies technology for 2 reasons:
> 1) he explained it to me over the phone in confidence. It's not my place to talk about it in detail without his approval.
> ...


That's all fair, but one thing to think about is the "disagreement and negativity" are a justified reaction. Most people here aren't sheep so they won't eat up the sales pitch. So far, you haven't exactly been the best ambassador for your friend's brand. 

Did he tell you to get on the forums and start hyping up his new products, or did you take it upon yourself to become his ambassador? Does he know about this thread? Being a salesman and spreading the word about something new and "revolutionary" without any kind of info is a big no-no. Things like this are better served in a booth at CES/SEMA or by an official press release or launch from the man himself. That creates a critical difference between a new brand and product line being well received, or as evidenced by this thread, met with skepticism.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

So this or LP?


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

hurrication said:


> That's all fair, but one thing to think about is the "disagreement and negativity" are a justified reaction. Most people here aren't sheep so they won't eat up the sales pitch. So far, you haven't exactly been the best ambassador for your friend's brand.
> 
> Did he tell you to get on the forums and start hyping up his new products, or did you take it upon yourself to become his ambassador? Does he know about this thread? Being a salesman and spreading the word about something new and "revolutionary" without any kind of info is a big no-no. Things like this are better served in a booth at CES/SEMA or by an official press release or launch from the man himself. That creates a critical difference between a new brand and product line being well received, or as evidenced by this thread, met with skepticism.


He has a booth at CES right now. I am posting about it for several reasons but mostly because I am excited to see what new products he has and I wanted to share with the group. Am I wrong for this? Sounds like you think I am.

I can't speak about whether Bernie knows about this thread, or even this forum to be honest. He's a very busy guy lately so I wouldn't expect him to have the time to be browsing message boards. He is at CES with just his wife right now because the company is allocating heir funding for production and development and Bernie can hold his own in the launch environment at CES.

I agree that he should, and will, release the technology information. I don't expect the members of this forum to run out and buy anything without further info. I'm also not trying to sell it. If you can see where I mention anything about giving money or buyung from me (making me a salesman) then please let me know because my account would have been hacked. I am not a salesman, I'm actually an engineer in the medical industry. I'm simply trying to inform people here of a cool up and coming brand, whether it's your cup of tea or not. I for one am an old school fan and this brand is pretty damn exciting to me. 

Hotdog...thanks for the vote of support. I know that not everyone here is pessimistic, just the ones that are tend to be more vocal.

Anyone that wants more info I would strongly urge to check Boland Audio on Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/Boland-Audio-457346177782003/


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

And someone mentioned that I'm a new member..,not sure what makes it seem that I'm a new member. Been here for 2.5 years with a decent amount of posts, I've bought, sold, discussed, argued, and I'm sure stirred plenty of pots. I haven't been here mush lately, mostly because of the negativity and influx of younger, less sq biased members,


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I saw Bernie at CES, but didn't get a chance to talk to him. He walked right past me while I was manning the MECA booth. But, it was right at 9:00 am on Friday and he was walking like a man with purpose. I didn't even know he had a booth set up somewhere. If I did, I would have sought him out to see what he has up his sleeve.


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## capea4 (Sep 2, 2010)

Hay Dave, thanks for the scoup on the new line. I'll have to check out what he has come up with.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

gstokes said:


> Made in the USA is cool and i like buying from our own people but most popular name brand amplifiers are designed by American companies and built overseas simply because it is less expensive..
> 
> What's separates MMATS from the others is their advanced technology and commitment to sound quality, you know that even their economy line is top shelf and possibly a step above another manufacturers mid grade equipment, that's what i see different about MMATS..



Somehow MMATS isn't a brand I look to for SQ.. Maybe it's their marketing. 



















Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

Babs said:


> Somehow MMATS isn't a brand I look to for SQ.. Maybe it's their marketing.


I see your point, they do appear to be big fans of SPL


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

I've never considered them SQ either even though I run their 6 channel and one of their mono's. I like the look I'd their amps and the fact they are assembled in the US makes me happy. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

gstokes said:


> I see your point, they do appear to be big fans of SPL


Yeah their FB page pretty much sums them up.
https://www.facebook.com/MMats-Pro-Audio-130624117007468/photos_stream


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

Babs said:


> Yeah their FB page pretty much sums them up.
> https://www.facebook.com/MMats-Pro-Audio-130624117007468/photos_stream


SPL sells.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Dubstep (Apr 7, 2010)

I wonder if some of you can do a oil change!? Looks like a bunch of orders have been made for his amps! I like them! He's a good guy, and livin the dream it seems, he's forgot more about amps than most will ever know! He's doing very cool stuff that 99% on here will never be able to do if they wanted to. Im in the camp a Class D will never be in my ride, I dont give a dam thats its not as small like a class d! Im from FL and we dont cry down here about heat, we deal with it! I like ano Red! I like OS Orions! He was a part of Orion! Cant do this in the next life! Who built youre amp? Where was it made? One of the Godfathers of the Car Audio world! Buy American and Support American families!~ Enough said!~


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

Cool man! Welcome back to January 2016, glad you made it!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## DDFusionV2 (Jul 11, 2016)

I'll never have another A/B in my car. I don't care who makes it. From critical listening to open up the doors and jam


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## jrouter76 (Dec 21, 2005)

capea4 said:


> you win with me


I`m with VWDAVE I`m a fan of Boland Amps...USA made...enuff said bring them on.


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## jrouter76 (Dec 21, 2005)

vwdave said:


> As previously mentioned, there are plans also for class D amps. What I posted was the SQ series. The DB series will be class D, and there's going to be a third line as well.
> 
> They will be customizable in the future to have multi channels and staggered.
> 
> It's funny, I hear complaints about everything being class D China made crap, now everyone complains about USA made class A/b. Lol I guess there's no winning with this crowd.


 x2,Kids,what the Hell do they know...but Cheap China Junk ass amps


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## DDFusionV2 (Jul 11, 2016)

I've had great amps from the 90s in the 90s. 
I'll take a Korean made amp all day. China made amps are breaking records. 
You are a fan of something that's not even produced a note.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

jrouter76 said:


> I`m with VWDAVE I`m a fan of Boland Amps...USA made...enuff said bring them on.


Sure, cuz no product ever made in the US has ever been of low or even questionable quality, huh? 

And I'm still waiting to hear more about this amazing technology that gives A/B sound quality with class D efficiency. That's the holy grail of audio equipment. If I had developed the holy grail of audio, I'd be talking about it non-stop to anyone that would listen, not keeping it on the DL.


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## DDFusionV2 (Jul 11, 2016)

Because sheep


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## jackk (Dec 27, 2010)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I hope Boland makes it. His products will have to prove themselves first. Too bad he'll be competing with brands that are made as cheaply as possible overseas. However, if he makes an amp that is clean, reliable, and powerful without breaking the bank I think he'll do just fine as long as he doesn't have too much overhead. I am a fan of a/b amps with forced cooling to keep the big sinks out of the picture.




I'm a biased Orion fan. Based on how my Orion's are still rocking after 20 years, this is something exciting to see indeed. 

I suspect those class D Alpine amps may not last 30 years? 

Oh well, I don't think Boland will get my business anytime soon cos the amps he built 20 30 years ago are still working!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SQSPORTTRAC (Jun 4, 2013)

I say we give boland audio a chance before we pass judgement. ..any guy involved with ppi and orion back in the day deserves a chance. Hes earned it..lets see what he does.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Still use all gen 1 Orions built in the late 80s. They do run warm, but it is manageable provided you're in the right impedance window and the install is right. Proper gain/level adjustment is probably more important with these than other amps to get the best sound, a little too high and they become hard to control at high volume. 

Technological advances aside, you can still can get very high performance with these - and I admit to liking the nostalgia factor, but I also like low cost and good availability even today. As far as the importance of technological advances go, I would say that those regarding signal processing and drivers are much more important - you can do very well with OS amps.

Ironically this almost certainly means I won't be needing a Boland.


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## Soligo24j (Nov 20, 2016)

I have a slew of Old Orion amps still, and use them in my current vehicles. I am interested in what Bernie has coming out, and am very confident that they will be everything they should be. There will always be guys who slander the "other" brands for whatever reason. I personally could give a sh*t about beating my trunk lud off my car, but rather have non-distorted audio bliss.
That being said, there are BASS heads, and then there are true audiophiles. These products carry a price tag for the discerning individuals who care about colorless reproduction. I currently run Orion NT's and XTR's, so it won't be an easy task to "better" the sound quality...But if it can be done, then I can assure you, audibly, you won't be able to hear a difference. They're that good.


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## Hispls (Mar 12, 2008)

Soligo24j said:


> I have a slew of Old Orion amps still, and use them in my current vehicles. I am interested in what Bernie has coming out, and am very confident that they will be everything they should be. There will always be guys who slander the "other" brands for whatever reason. I personally could give a sh*t about beating my trunk lud off my car, but rather have non-distorted audio bliss.
> That being said, there are BASS heads, and then there are true audiophiles. These products carry a price tag for the discerning individuals who care about colorless reproduction. I currently run Orion NT's and XTR's, so it won't be an easy task to "better" the sound quality...But if it can be done, then I can assure you, audibly, you won't be able to hear a difference. They're that good.


The days of amps "coloring" sound ended long ago. 

Don't get me wrong, there's still legitimate reasons to buy one amp over the next: aesthetics, crossover options, customer support, build quality/reliability, or even just to support a company you like, but if you're not shopping out of the absolute bottom of the junk drawer watt per watt unclipped will be indistinguishable.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Hispls said:


> The days of amps "coloring" sound ended long ago.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there's still legitimate reasons to buy one amp over the next: aesthetics, crossover options, customer support, build quality/reliability, or even just to support a company you like, but if you're not shopping out of the absolute bottom of the junk drawer watt per watt unclipped will be indistinguishable.


^^^^^This^^^^^


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## jackk (Dec 27, 2010)

Soligo24j said:


> I currently run Orion NT's and XTR's, so it won't be an easy task to "better" the sound quality...But if it can be done, then I can assure you, audibly, you won't be able to hear a difference. They're that good.



Hahaha believe me, you will have a big smile on ur face when u go HCCA 

I went from HCCA to U-Dimension for my mids the improvement was drastic. It's good that u like ur setup (I love Orion too) but there is always room for improvement for our hobby. It's just cost vs gain ratio that stops me from changing things around at certain points. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

whole made in America thing is funny, there is no parts produced in america anymore, even military used parts made elsewhere, designed and assembled in America would be more accurate statement. 
Chinese can produce parts of high quality, they are 3 times as pricey though.

Still cheaper than building new factories.


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## OldNewb (Sep 30, 2016)

I follow his page. From my observations, he took preorders a long time ago and still hasn't shipped a single amp


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

OldNewb said:


> I follow his page. From my observations, he took preorders a long time ago and still hasn't shipped a single amp


Process of getting any product ready for prime time is long and complicated.
Limited production numbers unlike mainstream products it time consuming. 
Pre-orders pay for development. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## JohnKuthe... (Nov 2, 2016)

Victor_inox said:


> whole made in America thing is funny, there is no parts produced in america anymore, even military used parts made elsewhere, designed and assembled in America would be more accurate statement.
> Chinese can produce parts of high quality, they are 3 times as pricey though.
> 
> Still cheaper than building new factories.


I will still pay for USA made. If you buy made in China you are poor! _ am! I realize Alpine audio equipment is made in China! And of that I am most ashamed!

John Kuthe...


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

JohnKuthe... said:


> I will still pay for USA made. If you buy made in China you are poor! _ am! I realize Alpine audio equipment is made in China! And of that I am most ashamed!
> 
> John Kuthe...


 You missing the point, there is NO parts made in USA.


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## JohnKuthe... (Nov 2, 2016)

Victor_inox said:


> You missing the point, there is NO parts made in USA.


Sick and sad. :-(

John Kuthe...


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> You missing the point, there is NO parts made in USA.


Not _quite_ true, but yeah, for 99.9% of components.

There is a company local to me that manufactures their own diodes.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Not _quite_ true, but yeah, for 99.9% of components.
> 
> There is a company local to me that manufactures their own diodes.


 There is some here and there but 0.1% not going to change that fact.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

JohnKuthe... said:


> Sick and sad. :-(
> 
> John Kuthe...


 Indeed.


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> Limited production numbers unlike mainstream products it time consuming.
> Pre-orders pay for development.


As a general rule, I don't pre-order anything anymore. Most of the time they miss their target dates by months or years.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

KillerBox said:


> As a general rule, I don't pre-order anything anymore. Most of the time they miss their target dates by months or years.


The clusterfuck that is No Man's Sky taught me that lesson as well.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Preorders can be a mixed bag. I've preordered many things over the years and saved a ton of money, and occasionally I've lost some money when companies went out of business before delivering. Also, I've had perfect product delivered from a preorder, and had junk that was obviously rushed into production just to meet a deadline. That's part of the deal with preorders, you never quite know exactly what you're going to get. 

The key with preordering anything, regardless of what kind of product it is, is to never commit more money to a preorder than you can afford to throw away. If it costs more money than I would be comfortable losing in a poker game, I pass on the preorder.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

sorry ive been MIA, i had password issues and just gave up on this site for a while.

yes it looks like they havnt shipped yet but they are making progress. the pre-order pricing is pretty sweet, and i believe you can get in a pre-order up until they start to ship.

As far as "made in America", yes, obviously they arent hand making every components here in the States. I havnt dissected an amp yet to see what all is being used but I know for a fact that many components are still made in Japan, and yes quality parts DO come out of China. I have also seen the ill effects of Chinese manufacturing with their sweat shop style factories. No pride in the work that they do. These are "boutique" amps that will be assembled in the US by people who have pride in what they do. 

I have been looking lately at the brands out there and its been a bit depressing. Many of the higher end brands have famous amp designers involved in their product line. Problem is, they dont have an identity. I can take a 90s era Orion board and know that its an Orion just by looking at it. Same for Phoenix Gold, PPI, Soundstream, Fosgate, Lanzar, and so on. These days, when you look at a board you can tell what country its made in, but thats it. 5 companies have the same engineer designing boards just to the brands specifications, and then one factory makes amps for 5-10 different brands, so the parts used will all be identical.

That phenomena is a big reason that i am excited to see what Boland Audio turns out. Their boards will have an identity. They were designed by Bernie Boland, and he only designs amps for his own brand. His factory is not making amps for other brands, so the components will be unique to his amps.

Again, they are not for everyone. There will be nay-sayers, and thats fine. I just get a kick out of people that bash something before any of us know what it is.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Onyx1136 said:


> Preorders can be a mixed bag. I've preordered many things over the years and saved a ton of money, and occasionally I've lost some money when companies went out of business before delivering. Also, I've had perfect product delivered from a preorder, and had junk that was obviously rushed into production just to meet a deadline. That's part of the deal with preorders, you never quite know exactly what you're going to get.
> 
> The key with preordering anything, regardless of what kind of product it is, is to never commit more money to a preorder than you can afford to throw away. If it costs more money than I would be comfortable losing in a poker game, I pass on the preorder.


^^^This right here.^^^ 

Your last statement is exactly how I view pre-orders. Same thing with crowd funding sites like Kickstarter. You are essentially gambling when you buy into a pre-order. Placing a bet. It may be a winning bet, it may not. The advantage you may have, depending on pre-order, is there may be a history with the company that provides a perception of lower risk. 

I also view it a bit like venture capitalism. Especially in a case like Boland. You are essentially making a small investment in a start up. The difference being that your ROI won't come in the value of company shares or dividends, but rather a delivered (hopefully properly functioning) product at a reduced price.


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

Lots of risks, so it better be at a very very substantial discount to any other similar products.

Risks with any start up (I am not picking on Boland)

1.) Product preforms like advertised. 
2.) Product delivery time period.
3.) Company doesn't file bankruptcy before product is produced.
4.) Company still in business down the road for service.
5.) Company owners finical stability. (They either can't or will not invest of enough personal money in their product not to ask for pre-orders)


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## OldNewb (Sep 30, 2016)

I just wonder how much a market amplifiers like this have. This isn't home audio, mobile audio doesn't have the same kind of big ticket spenders.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

OldNewb said:


> I just wonder how much a market amplifiers like this have. This isn't home audio, mobile audio doesn't have the same kind of big ticket spenders.


It does. Just not as many.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

OldNewb said:


> I just wonder how much a market amplifiers like this have. This isn't home audio, mobile audio doesn't have the same kind of big ticket spenders.


Relatively small market when compared to the rest of the industry as a whole. That's why there are only a handful of companies that make products like these, now.


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## JohnKuthe... (Nov 2, 2016)

Victor_inox said:


> Indeed.


I blame MalWart and the U.S. population!

Frontline expose:
Is Wal-Mart Good for America? | FRONTLINE | PBS

Music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw64hRgLBqM

Lyrics:
lyricsvip.com


Results: Data from Foreign Trade - U.S. Trade with China

U.S. Trade Imbalance with China (millions of dollars, to China)	

Year	Amount
1985	6
1986	1664
1987	2796
1988	3489
1989	6234
1990	10431
1991	12591
1992	18309
1993	22777
1994	29505
1995	33789
1996	39520
1997	47695
1998	56927
1999	68677
2000	83833
2001	83096
2002	103064
2003	124068
2004	161938
2005	201544
2006	232548
2007	258506
2008	268040
2009	208688
2010	273063
2011	295422
2012 315053
2013	318417
2014	342632
2015	365694

John Kuthe...


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

JohnKuthe... said:


> I blame MalWart and the U.S. population!
> 
> Frontline expose:
> Is Wal-Mart Good for America? | FRONTLINE | PBS
> ...


Great, great. Because if we've learned anything about human civilization, it's that assigning blame fixes everything! Thanx for solving that issue for everyone, John.


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## JohnKuthe... (Nov 2, 2016)

Onyx1136 said:


> Great, great. Because if we've learned anything about human civilization, it's that assigning blame fixes everything! Thanx for solving that issue for everyone, John.


I compiled that file years ago and I keep it on my computer's hard drive and backed up too! Just for copy/paste where applicable, like here.

John Kuthe...


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

JohnKuthe... said:


> I compiled that file years ago and I keep it on my computer's hard drive and backed up too! Just for copy/paste where applicable, like here.
> 
> John Kuthe...


And it contributes nothing to this thread. There is an OT section for a reason.


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## JohnKuthe... (Nov 2, 2016)

rton20s said:


> And it contributes nothing to this thread. There is an OT section for a reason.



I posted it s copyable text for a reason, so you can copy it and spread the information.

John Kuthe...


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

JohnKuthe... said:


> I posted it s copyable text for a reason, so you can copy it and spread the information.
> 
> John Kuthe...


No. 

And again, not the place for it.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

rton20s said:


> No.
> 
> And again, not the place for it.


Might as well give it up. He's way too obtuse to understand.


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## ohiodish (Jul 6, 2010)

Year later and they are shipping. Look like HCCA amps which is fine, plus the review I read on FB was good. Looks like a quality product and I would like to here one. Just not enough to buy one since I would need a 6ch that they wont ever make. I am happy to see this company running making US made amps from an engineer with so much history and experience. I was an Orion & PPI dealer in 1992-1994 and brings back great memories.


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

Still haven't found a "Boland" website? Seems like just FB and Instagram


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

The amp looks great off facebook for materials and a slightly different design then I've seen before. Should produce some nice clean power. I like the top notch quality materials used. I can see how their noise reduction could lead to a great amount of headroom. I wonder if they are every going to try any high quality D class bass amps or if they are sticking to A/B or maybe even add a few extra rails to improve efficiency to a GH. Not really much of a difference between the two. Either way, how much and how do I get two.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

WOW, so much negativity toward Bolan amps,.... 
does anyone thinking about consumption of AB/D class after they bought and installed them,...I bet NO, everybody just uses them 
why nobody bother with HUGHE D class mono amps that takes really a lot of space in the trunks - 1 meter long super surf boards (GZ 10.000, not to mention 20.000, DD, Alphard, etc etc )...?
No one bother with still huge amps AB class like MOSCONI, TRU, STEG, AUDISON,....amps...everybody just raving about them
Majority of best sounding competition vehicles running AB class amps..again BRAX, Mosconi, Genesis, RevelationAudio, SS, old PPI, PG, RF ...etc etc and everybody is OK with that

....so why all this negativity toward a products that were designed by a person who designed many still today good sounding amps that work without problems for 20-30 years under very popular marketing names like Orion RF, PPI?
and, how many of you wouldn't want to have let say Brax MX4, Audison HR100 or Thesis amps, or maybe SS HoumanReign or McIntosh amps....?

Lets give a man a chance to prove that his products are up there with others SQ wise


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## Hispls (Mar 12, 2008)

LBaudio said:


> ....so why all this negativity toward a products that were designed by a person who designed many still today good sounding amps that work without problems for 20-30 years under very popular marketing names like Orion RF, PPI?
> and, how many of you wouldn't want to have let say Brax MX4, Audison HR100 or Thesis amps, or maybe SS HoumanReign or McIntosh amps....?
> 
> Lets give a man a chance to prove that his products are up there with others SQ wise


My issue with this is that class A/B is pretty much obsolete and paying 1991 prices for 1991 technology/circuit designs is silly. This is nostalgia for the sake of nostalgia at this point. 

I'm not complaining about my 40" long Korean class D because it puts out more power than 10 Orion "The Beast" and requires a quarter of the battery bank and a fifth of the space to do it. The 5 channel I'm running at the moment is about half the size of a school textbook and puts out more power than the Sony "Big Red" by nearly double (sacrificing some crossover options which I can get in a 250$ head unit anyway). 

Don't get me wrong. If I got a good deal on one of the old limited edition Soundstream, PPI, Phoenix Gold, etc. I'd run it for show and nostalgia, but buying new we have some amazing options that are small, efficient, and will sound every bit as good. 

Good luck to the guy, I love to see the small business succeed, but this guy is fighting an uphill battle in this industry with the product he is offering.


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

Bowland had pre-sold, collected full payment and then missed his promise shipping date by over a year. So I gave Bowland a hard time on FaceBook after he quit responding to buyers inquires. 

Maybe it is from my upbringing but, I believe people should always do what they say they are going to do. Or at the very least, give people an explanation on why they can't at that moment and then give a firm date again and try to make up for their short comings.

As far as I know by FB chatter only a few amps have been delivered, so I am still weary.

Other than that the one blue amp pictures that I have seen on FB, it looks like a fine amp of the highest quality that I would love to own. But I will never buy one until someone has them in stock because of the prior issues.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

KillerBox said:


> Bowland had pre-sold, collected full payment and then missed his promise shipping date by over a year. So I gave Bowland a hard time on FaceBook after he quit responding to buyers inquires.
> 
> Maybe it is from my upbringing but, I believe people should always do what they say they are going to do. Or at the very least, give people an explanation on why they can't at that moment and then give a firm date again and try to make up for their short comings.
> 
> ...


I understand.

The 0.001 THD+N... if it is real, seems pretty hard to ignore.

I would have not paid for my 0.005 THD+N amp, if I knew these existed (even in vapourware).


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Hispls said:


> My issue with this is that class A/B is pretty much obsolete


Oh, we better tell Sinfoni, Brax, Audison, Zapco, countless others that all their best products are obsolete because you are convinced you are getting more for less with Class D.

Though promising and here to stay, it is well documented, even recently on this forum, that Class D is not yet a fully mature technology SQ-wise. (Upgraded designs based on different devices are supposedly in the works, etc.) In the meantime, Class A/B designs have continued to develop and improve. And there is nothing wrong with older Class A/B stuff, if you know what you are doing install-wise.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

No reason to jump into another debate on amplifier classes. It has been proven over and over that in a car, if you can't "get it done" with a quality class D amp, the amp is not the issue. But, just because class D amps have reached that level of maturity doesn't mean there isn't a place in the market for class AB amplification. 

What I do find interesting is that we have a couple of "boutique" brands right now that are putting all of their eggs in the ultra-premium car audio amplifier basket. Boland, obviously, and Revelation Audio. We've been able to watch Bernie's track record thus far, and while the resulting amplifiers seem to be good based on reviews, the execution in development and delivery has caused some heartache. It will be interesting to watch as Matt, Gordon and team develop their Revelation Audio brand. Also interesting to watch is if competitors using these esoteric amplifiers will gain exclusive rights to the podium as their use becomes more wide spread.


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

Who is Revelation Audio and what is their website?

P.S. I looked on google and it pulls up a few different companies and I have never heard of them.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

KillerBox said:


> Who is Revelation Audio and what is their website?
> 
> P.S. I looked on google and it pulls up a few different companies and I have never heard of them.


I don't want to take us too far off of track from Boland, but you can find their site here: https://www.revelation-audio.com/ They are also active on Facebook.

There is also at least one thread here on DIYMA discussing the brand. http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/353314-opinions-revelation-audio.html


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

I spent some quality time last night comparing one of my Boland SQ2150's against a few classic top-shelf amps of days gone by. And, I can assure you all: this is not your typical Class-A/B amplifier. The thing has absolutely zero noise floor. Dead silent. It also runs very cool. Like, doesn't even get warm. The power is there. And, it sounds clean and sharp as a razor. I know cliche's all to often get over used. But, if there ever was a "wire with gain" amplifier? This is it.


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## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

Good stuff


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

rton20s said:


> No reason to jump into another debate on amplifier classes.


Yet, you can't resist.



rton20s said:


> It has been proven over and over that in a car, if you can't "get it done" with a quality class D amp, the amp is not the issue.


Not really a meaningful statement. For one thing, nothing has been proven anywhere.



rton20s said:


> But, just because class D amps have reached that level of maturity doesn't mean there isn't a place in the market for class AB amplification.


If you look around, the consensus seems to be that the maturity is far from complete, at least on the SQ side. But I'm glad you seem to be unwilling to throw the baby out with the bath water from here. So many are, mind you. As if class AB hasn't advanced in the meantime as well.



rton20s said:


> What I do find interesting is that we have a couple of "boutique" brands right now that are putting all of their eggs in the ultra-premium car audio amplifier basket. Boland, obviously, and Revelation Audio. We've been able to watch Bernie's track record thus far, and while the resulting amplifiers seem to be good based on reviews, the execution in development and delivery has caused some heartache. It will be interesting to watch as Matt, Gordon and team develop their Revelation Audio brand. Also interesting to watch is if competitors using these esoteric amplifiers will gain exclusive rights to the podium as their use becomes more wide spread.


I hear what you're getting at, but I worry that some might misunderstand what you're saying, and think you're implying that class AB has been relegated to only boutique status, produced only through the riskiest ventures. I'm sure you didn't mean that lol.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

GEM592 said:


> Yet, you can't resist.
> 
> Not really a meaningful statement. For one thing, nothing has been proven anywhere.
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right. If someone wants to simply skim a post, cherry pick only specific portions, and then misconstrue what was posted, then yes... "some might misunderstand." 

Bottom line, amplifier topology in 2017 (and for quite some time now) does not *need* to be a deciding factor when building a car audio system. It boils down to what your specific needs and preferences are. You can build an excellent sounding car (aka world SQ championship capable) with pretty much any amplifier class available.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Interesting. But, the car audio aftermarket seems to be shrinking every day, and just how big can the high-end auto amplifier niche be anyway? 
There may have been some modest improvements to class a/b in the last 20 years but, efficiency is still nowhere near class D. Further, new vehicles have continually been getting smaller to meet egregious emission standards. Because of that, useable space has decreased meaning the physical footprint trend is completely in favor of class D as well. The days of filling the hatch or trunk with sound gear have passed for most people. Now they can buy a ultra compact 5 channel class D amp, set the gains, slip it under a seat and forget about it. 
Having said all that I will say I admire Bernie Boland and what he is attempting to do. Bucking all the trends is a risky and monumental challenge in 2017.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

PPI_GUY said:


> Interesting. But, the car audio aftermarket seems to be shrinking every day, and just how big can the high-end auto amplifier niche be anyway?
> There may have been some modest improvements to class a/b in the last 20 years but, efficiency is still nowhere near class D. Further, new vehicles have continually been getting smaller to meet egregious emission standards. Because of that, useable space has decreased meaning the physical footprint trend is completely in favor of class D as well. The days of filling the hatch or trunk with sound gear have passed for most people. Now they can buy a ultra compact 5 channel class D amp, set the gains, slip it under a seat and forget about it.
> Having said all that I will say I admire Bernie Boland and what he is attempting to do. Bucking all the trends is a risky and monumental challenge in 2017.


I don't think he's trying to buck the class D trend. More like he is trying to fit into a high end class AB market that has continued to thrive and develop in spite of the usual point of view you restated above. From what I understand, his success or failure will have less to do with the quality of the designs used, and more to do with his ability to successfully and reliably get products to market, in reasonable time, with full support, etc.


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

Sorry to stir the pot, but does anyone have any additional feedback on these, specifically the 2150b. I just picked one up to demo.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

What is your point of reference saying the aftermarket car audio industry is shrinking everyday. I think not. We have been contacted by more new brands and companies recently than you can throw a stick at. They are popping up everywhere. There are still guys out there willing to spend on high end if the need is felt. I would love to get my paws on some old school linear power amps that have been reworked but those dudes are 2500+. They can’t keep enough of them in stock. The business is changing I’ll grant but that’s mainly going to be in aftermarket head units more than anything else. With oem integration being the key. 
The next niche is leaving the oem head unit intact but having a small hideaway headunit like pioneer sold in the late 80s. You can stick that in a cubbie or the glove box and have you system fully high end along with leaving the stock hu in for everything else. 
But it isn’t shrinking and the boutique brands are like country boys. They will survive


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

If you have the room and power, why not run a/b g/h. If you dont have either, run class D. If your just missing some room, run both. If your missing the power you probably shouldn't run anything but stock, but D is fine.

The point is, figure out what you CAN do and install and go from there. Before even discussing SQL, its probably best to make sure everything else is in place.

A/B has not pioneered in technology, its now called G/H as its fairly basic. D has, but that is simply to catch up to the SQL.

As for Boland, amazing equipment, and very well built, but if you search the world over in price point, you can get better for cheaper.

Quick tip, most of it depends on where youre buying. Boland is clearly doing something different as they are putting 2 amps into 1.

Just a little FYI. I found Mosconi Zero for $1k new, you just have to get it through customs. Boland should be very expensive in say Germany or Australia, but average priced where it is from. You have to be willing to compete with the best to claim the best.


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

I was critical (and let him know it) of Boland taking pre-order money and then missing his target date by such a long time. This practice seems to be an ongoing trend with a lot of manufactures inside and outside the car audio industry.

All of that being said and based on the pictures that I have seen, Boland's amps look sharp! If I had the room and alternator power, I would definitely consider buying some. 

My problem is that I love Logic 7 with center channel and rear fill. In my current system I have 150w x 14 channels and 600w x 2 channels (3 Arc Audio xDI 1200.6) and I wished that I had more power on the midbasses. That is a heck of a lot of room and alternator power to go with 2 channel Class A/b amps.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

I know popele like to be "keep'en it real", but all I found was a Facebook page.
It is like npbeing at a star trek convention, but do the amps actually exist in real life, or are they vapourware?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Iamsecond said:


> What is your point of reference saying the aftermarket car audio industry is shrinking everyday. I think not. We have been contacted by more new brands and companies recently than you can throw a stick at. They are popping up everywhere. There are still guys out there willing to spend on high end if the need is felt. I would love to get my paws on some old school linear power amps that have been reworked but those dudes are 2500+. They can’t keep enough of them in stock. The business is changing I’ll grant but that’s mainly going to be in aftermarket head units more than anything else. With oem integration being the key.
> The next niche is leaving the oem head unit intact but having a small hideaway headunit like pioneer sold in the late 80s. You can stick that in a cubbie or the glove box and have you system fully high end along with leaving the stock hu in for everything else.
> But it isn’t shrinking and the boutique brands are like country boys. They will survive


Hideaway head units? Unlikely. Not when it seems that everyone developing DSPs are looking for ways to take the music directly from the source (which isn't CDs anymore). Whether over Aux/RCA, USB, Bluetooth or WiFi, they all seem to be taking the approach of bypassing traditional head units (OE or aftermarket) all together. The shortcoming here is going to be the UI in a mobile environment. 



Holmz said:


> I know popele like to be "keep'en it real", but all I found was a Facebook page.
> It is like npbeing at a star trek convention, but do the amps actually exist in real life, or are they vapourware?


Yes, they exist. Several people own them. Production numbers are VERY low though and seem to be rolling out quite slowly. The joys of being a very tiny boutique brand.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

rton20s said:


> ...
> Yes, they exist. Several people own them. Production numbers are VERY low though and seem to be rolling out quite slowly. The joys of being a very tiny boutique brand.


Thanks


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

rton20s said:


> Hideaway head units? Unlikely. Not when it seems that everyone developing DSPs are looking for ways to take the music directly from the source (which isn't CDs anymore). Whether over Aux/RCA, USB, Bluetooth or WiFi, they all seem to be taking the approach of bypassing traditional head units (OE or aftermarket) all together. The shortcoming here is going to be the UI in a mobile environment.


The future is what Pac is doing with the AMPPRO and what iDatalink is doing with the AR. A $200-$300 plug and play module that gives you three sets of 5v pre outs with a flat 20-20khz. It's our modern day 'radio replacement'.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

KillerBox said:


> I was critical (and let him know it) of Boland taking pre-order money and then missing his target date by such a long time. This practice seems to be an ongoing trend with a lot of manufactures inside and outside the car audio industry.
> 
> All of that being said and based on the pictures that I have seen, Boland's amps look sharp! If I had the room and alternator power, I would definitely consider buying some.
> 
> My problem is that I love Logic 7 with center channel and rear fill. In my current system I have 150w x 14 channels and 600w x 2 channels (3 Arc Audio xDI 1200.6) and I wished that I had more power on the midbasses. That is a heck of a lot of room and alternator power to go with 2 channel Class A/b amps.


I totally agree, Logic 7 is very nice and difficult to
change. I have finally rounded out my system and have 6 different amplifiers to attempt to do what Audi does, but with more power and bass. Midbass is tough. 

Im actually running 2 different sealed 8" subs up to 500hz (probably not that high) just to cover midbass and each on being on a jl monoblock, one for left, and the other for right, plus I have to run 2 DSPs to attempt to include all speakers including my center channels which I have to customize both physically and software. Im just hoping I get close. 

Not sure what Audi uses, but I do know they use a center channel in the front to improve imaging for both driver and passenger.

I do agree, with both the preorder issue and delay. When I started a buisness about 15 years ago, I had to build it from the ground up. Starting a buisness means loans and if it takes more to get it off the ground and keep it afloat, you may have to put in your own personal money. Thats what makes a buisness your own. 

Unfortunately it seems like Boland wanted to profit from the start and is now overcharging to keep profiting and possibly cover the initial cost spent to start the buisness. It may be harsh, but its difficult to respect that sort of buisness model.

Starting a new company is, or should be, a risk. You CANNOT rely on others or miss deadlines. You must do what you say you are going to do even if it co.es out of youre own pocket. The way it was done is a bad way to start out and its also difficult for others to respect, especially if there is no strong foundation to start with.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Angrywhopper said:


> rton20s said:
> 
> 
> > Hideaway head units? Unlikely. Not when it seems that everyone developing DSPs are looking for ways to take the music directly from the source (which isn't CDs anymore). Whether over Aux/RCA, USB, Bluetooth or WiFi, they all seem to be taking the approach of bypassing traditional head units (OE or aftermarket) all together. The shortcoming here is going to be the UI in a mobile environment.
> ...



Im not seeing the hideaways either. Almost every DSP, and some amps are direct bluetooth, USB, or some other direct connect. If not completely digital DSP+amp IE Zapco DC, Clarion, even Sony with a form of what some might call a "headunit" then its phone stream or Pandora. 

GPS may keep the "headunit around for a while, but I see more of a move toward a removable tablet-like "blank" insert with bluetooth. Most people simply want easier. And the market will lean toward "most people"/ "most money"

I am a rarity in that I enjoy the full install with the headunit and multiple options to get the best I can out of whats available from many different companies.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Iamsecond said:


> What is your point of reference saying the aftermarket car audio industry is shrinking everyday. I think not. We have been contacted by more new brands and companies recently than you can throw a stick at. They are popping up everywhere. There are still guys out there willing to spend on high end if the need is felt. I would love to get my paws on some old school linear power amps that have been reworked but those dudes are 2500+. They can’t keep enough of them in stock. The business is changing I’ll grant but that’s mainly going to be in aftermarket head units more than anything else. With oem integration being the key.
> The next niche is leaving the oem head unit intact but having a small hideaway headunit like pioneer sold in the late 80s. You can stick that in a cubbie or the glove box and have you system fully high end along with leaving the stock hu in for everything else.
> But it isn’t shrinking and the boutique brands are like country boys. They will survive


Im not sure if they "cant keep them in stock" or e just cant keep up with their initial promise. As I previously stated, they do not seem like the type of startup that puts anything of their own into a project. Give it a few more months and they'll soon develop a buisness model of "built to custom" "2 week delay". I dont believe that they ever created a STOCK. 

They may survive, but there are two things I do know. For the money, connections, and experience, a person could do better (amp wise). And their price point is way put of wack. What happens when all of theyre friends are done buying amps. 

No way in hell would I lay down that kind of money for what Im getting. Also, I would not purchase anything that I would have to rely on already broken "facebook" promises. If you really want a great G/H class amp feom an established company go to Arc or even the newer HCCA H series.

Boutiques are nice at times, but only if they have a firm buisness standing. Meaning that they live up to what they say. They may promise a warrenty too, but promises have been made before. What happens if they do go out of buisness and your amp fries in the warranty period?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)




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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Yes, not a surprise and unfortunate really. I like the product and craftsmanship, but the attitude ... judging by the amount of grief and nonsense I got over only a brief interaction I can only imagine how bad it must have got with others.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

That new B2 amp with the mcaps might be a great alternative


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

dcfis said:


> That new B2 amp with the mcaps might be a great alternative


Meh.


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## Aaron Clinton (Oct 17, 2006)

*Was it confirmed by Bernie? I saw the post, but it wasn't from him, so I wasn't sure if I should take it serious. They really just got started and I was considering being a dealer for them.*


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

pretty classless putting that on social media


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## TomT (May 19, 2005)

Porsche said:


> pretty classless putting that on social media


I know nothing about any of this, but their main web presence was on FB so it makes sense it would be there.


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## beak81champ (Oct 2, 2015)

Aaron Clinton said:


> *Was it confirmed by Bernie? I saw the post, but it wasn't from him, so I wasn't sure if I should take it serious. They really just got started and I was considering being a dealer for them.*


Yes, Bernie confirmed it. He was locked out of the building while the other guy was unloading equipment. Once things settle down, we will have to see where it all ends up. Hopefully, he will make some kind of statement and let everyone know what happened and what the future plans are. He told people who had purchased but not received amps to cancel their credit card orders. The people with items being serviced seem to still be up in the air on where their amps are, and possibly whether the other guy (Mushin?) stole them in the process of clearing out the building.


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## Hispls (Mar 12, 2008)

TomT said:


> their main web presence was on FB


Can't even afford a website? Yikes. Hope everyone gets their money/amps back. It's a big risk of dealing with these 1 or 2 man show audio "brands".


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

TomT said:


> I know nothing about any of this, but their main web presence was on FB so it makes sense it would be there.


not talking about the announcement, i am speaking about one partner airing his grievance with another


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Hispls said:


> Can't even afford a website? Yikes. Hope everyone gets their money/amps back. It's a big risk of dealing with these 1 or 2 man show audio "brands".


You are on the Cape? 

Are you interested in the GTG we have every spring and fall? The Spring 2019 one is going to be 15 min from either Bridge. 

Sorry for jacking the thread.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

I admire Bernie for trying to make a go of it. And any Made in the USA business will always have my support. But, you have to wonder about the business model. It's almost 2019 and the only products he offered were hand-built audiophile class a/b amps. There may be a niche market for those but, I would think the real profit would be in entry level class D amps. Maybe start out offering something like that before going full bore boutique?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

To sell a product with consistency and build consumer trust, you must first have a product available. From various brands that have come across this forum, which shall remain unnamed, how many times have we seen this issue?? Let's not play coy & naive. The archives prove that such a business model is bound to fail. The market for luxury gear exists, but no man with any sense is going to continue risking large sums of money on a company that has a hard time putting the product in consumer hands. 

Preorders are the devil, well almost. Just about every preorder that slides across the forum timeline has had trouble with keeping projected dates. Not to mention, ones that depend on consumer funds, even partially, to build the product are risky as hell! Now put in mind how investors feel when they aren't seeing the initial recoup starting to happen by a projected time, much less the promised return gain. Not throwing anyone into the fire, but would it be going too far to think that if seizure occurred, warnings of such actions to take place also did? So where did the line of communication breakdown as far as consumers are concerned? 

Unfortunate that full fruition has eluded what could have been, but more unfortunate that all companies haven't learned how to run a business before going into business.. worse for those that are trying to make a comeback.. lack of hindsight?

Flame away.....

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Bayboy said:


> To sell a product with consistency and build consumer trust, you must first have a product available. From various brands that have come across this forum, which shall remain unnamed, how many times have we seen this issue?? Let's not play coy & naive. The archives prove that such a business model is bound to fail. The market for luxury gear exists, but no man with any sense is going to continue risking large sums of money on a company that has a hard time putting the product in consumer hands.
> 
> Preorders are the devil, well almost. Just about every preorder that slides across the forum timeline has had trouble with keeping projected dates. Not to mention, ones that depend on consumer funds, even partially, to build the product are risky as hell! Now put in mind how investors feel when they aren't seeing the initial recoup starting to happen by a projected time, much less the promised return gain. Not throwing anyone into the fire, but would it be going too far to think that if seizure occurred, warnings of such actions to take place also did? So where did the line of communication breakdown as far as consumers are concerned?
> 
> ...



agreed 100%, anytime you are trying to fund a project with pre-orders etc you are setup for failure. if you do not have capital to start and produce a brand than you will more than likely fail, there is at least one other amp manufacturer doing preorders wanting to be paid before product is ready to ship etc, bad business

boland wasn't paying the rent, the landlord locked the building, not the partner, very fishy and says a lot about boland saying it was the partner, there is a letter on the door for everyone to see


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

It's a tough thing to watch. So many people were/are emotionally and financially invested in Bernie's efforts. Now we see firsthand just how hard it is to create and launch a domestic car audio manufacturing business in this day and age. He was facing long odds anyway but, now there seems to be a hint that his partner may have been negatively involved? 
Again, I have to question his business model that relied entirely on pre-orders of hand-built products with a exclusive price point. It's OK to do that but, I have to wonder how selling a couple hundred amps a year would ever pay the bills. 
He could have offered a entry level line that wee basically tried and true off the shelf Korean board designs, priced accordingly and reinvested the profit from those sale to grow and stabilize his audiophile series. 
And really it is 2019 (almost)...you have to offer a small footprint class D option. You can build the absolute best class A/B amps ever but, it will still be a decades old design. Don't shutout 2/3rds of your potential customer base.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

beak81champ said:


> Yes, Bernie confirmed it. He was locked out of the building while the other guy was unloading equipment. Once things settle down, we will have to see where it all ends up. Hopefully, he will make some kind of statement and let everyone know what happened and what the future plans are. He told people who had purchased but not received amps to cancel their credit card orders. The people with items being serviced seem to still be up in the air on where their amps are, and possibly whether the other guy (Mushin?) stole them in the process of clearing out the building.


Apparently, it wasn't Munish (or anyone associated with the business) that locked anyone out. Hopefully, some time soon the whole story comes out. Until then, hopefully the rampant speculation (especially on Facebook) will die down.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

It's one thing to mismanage a business, but another when you lie about it. Not to just anybody, but people that were financially supporting you..... customers. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

rton20s said:


> Apparently, it wasn't Munish (or anyone associated with the business) that locked anyone out. Hopefully, some time soon the whole story comes out. Until then, hopefully the rampant speculation (especially on Facebook) will die down.


this raises a lot of red flags on bernie, say what you want but he made is found like it was his partner when it clearly wasn't, that was posted on the door and i no more believe he didn't know they where behind on rent etc than a man on the moon. VERY fishy


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I've got no dog in this fight either. But, it seems like someone in the scenario was a little trigger happy to call out another party who is supposed to be a partner. Going so far as to publish on a public forum private contact information for all other parties even remotely involved in the business says a lot about that person's character.


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## beak81champ (Oct 2, 2015)

rton20s said:


> I've got no dog in this fight either. But, it seems like someone in the scenario was a little trigger happy to call out another party who is supposed to be a partner. Going so far as to publish on a public forum private contact information for all other parties even remotely involved in the business says a lot about that person's character.


Correct. It all comes out in the wash, sooner or later.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

64k question is how many amps have they actually delivered. anyone know anyone using them or seen them in installs, etc


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Recently saw an interview with Bernie on YouTube. Dude really seemed cool and wanted to bring something unique out. Turns out from the posts here that he's scummy. Too bad.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Porsche said:


> 64k question is how many amps have they actually delivered. anyone know anyone using them or seen them in installs, etc


https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/5620361-post332.html


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## beak81champ (Oct 2, 2015)

​


Porsche said:


> 64k question is how many amps have they actually delivered. anyone know anyone using them or seen them in installs, etc


I just received mine last Wednesday, so I’m assuming I got one of the very last that were shipped.


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

Pics or it didn't happen, also curious to hear your review if will share.


beak81champ said:


> ​
> I just received mine last Wednesday, so I’m assuming I got one of the very last that were shipped.


Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## beak81champ (Oct 2, 2015)

This amp may never be installed, depending on how this situation concludes. It may turn into a small investment, or a nostalgic keepsake.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

beak81champ said:


> This amp may never be installed, depending on how this situation concludes. It may turn into a small investment, or a nostalgic keepsake.


no offense but that is incredibly silly but to each there own


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

You need to at least bench test and look at the internals on any Boland amplifiers. 

Some people have claimed they are DOA because Boland was "borrowing" parts from individuals and using whatever he could get.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

KillerBox said:


> You need to at least bench test and look at the internals on any Boland amplifiers.
> 
> Some people have claimed they are DOA because Boland was "borrowing" parts from individuals and using whatever he could get.


if thats true, its criminal and very sad/poor ethics


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Porsche said:


> if thats true, its criminal and very sad/poor ethics


I think the bad ethics part has already been established.


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

beak81champ said:


> This amp may never be installed, depending on how this situation concludes. It may turn into a small investment, or a nostalgic keepsake.


That is beautiful, thanks for sharing.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

KillerBox said:


> You need to at least bench test and look at the internals on any Boland amplifiers.
> 
> Some people have claimed they are DOA because Boland was "borrowing" parts from individuals and using whatever he could get.


I would say that is highly doubtful. My take on it is that if anything, his standards are almost too high as to be unrealistic/impractical, and probably contributed to the demise of the company. 

I visited the shop and met him about a year ago to pick up an amp repair. My impression was that he had a very high quality product and very high manufacturing standards, but that the business had problems piling up, and probably had little practical chance of surviving for various reasons.


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## beak81champ (Oct 2, 2015)

Porsche said:


> no offense but that is incredibly silly but to each there own


Why would you say that?


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

beak81champ said:


> Why would you say that?


its a car amp, to think it will be an investment is absurd, now if you want to keep an amp for the hell of it than so be it, still silly IMO but to each there own.


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## beak81champ (Oct 2, 2015)

Porsche said:


> its a car amp, to think it will be an investment is absurd, now if you want to keep an amp for the hell of it than so be it, still silly IMO but to each there own.


My bad, investment was the wrong word. I should have said nostalgia, but I’ll use it now so you don’t think I’m silly.


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## Lou Frasier2 (Jul 17, 2012)

Porsche said:


> its a car amp, to think it will be an investment is absurd, now if you want to keep an amp for the hell of it than so be it, still silly IMO but to each there own.


their,


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Yikes, I feel bad for anyone who was bit by this.

In my experience: If you haven't started a particular business before and are going to have a go at it, carefully calculate how much you need. Do detailed financial models. If you don't know how to do this, don't start a business.

Next, multiply the required capital amount you calculated by 2.5x.

Now you have a shot.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

beak81champ said:


> My bad, investment was the wrong word. I should have said nostalgia, but I’ll use it now so you don’t think I’m silly.


do as you please, i could careless


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