# 2010 Honda Accord Coupe Install



## Mirage_Man

This will be my official 2010 Accord Coupe install/build thread. I've been planning the build for several months acquiring parts and components. Plans have changed a couple times since the beginning and may again, who knows but for right now I think I'm ready to go. 

I have been into car audio since the late 80's and have had several moderate systems over the years but this is going to be my first real install with the idea of competing in the future. I will be going all out with sound deadening the entire vehicle etc.

The system will be an active system built around an Alpine IVA-W505 feeding a Matt Roberts modified H701 processor via digital optical. I considered going with a 9965 but really wanted the all in one nav,dvd etc.. with the 505. Amplifier duty will be all Zapco Reference and DC Reference. Speakers are Dynaudio MW162 (mids), Scan Speak D3004/602000 (tweets), Tang Band 4" bamboo cone (rear fill) and a pair of JL Audio 12W6V2's (subs).

This is probably going to be a long term affair as I will only be able to work on it in my spare time. Those of you that have families with small children know how "spare time" is an oxymoron. In any event I will update this thread whenever I make progress.

Here is the car in question...


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## Mirage_Man

OK so first project is to install a new starting battery since the factory battery is pretty much a joke. After researching for a couple weeks I decided to go with an XS Power S3400 AGM. The Stock battery is a Group 51R which means the positive and negative terminals are reversed compared to a regular battery. I could have gotten a 51R from XS but I wanted more reserve capacity and since the battery tray will hold it I opted for the S3400. 

The S3400 has top mount terminals but of course they are on the wrong side compared to the 51R. So I am making a busbar out of .250" thick 1" wide solid copper to extend the positive terminal over to where the factory terminal will reach. The reason for this is I really don't want to mess with the factory harness and re-wire everything. I will have two top mount terminals on the busbar, one for the factory and one for the Stinger HPM 1/0 terminal I will be using. 

Today I picked up the copper from my local metal supply house. I could have just used the bar as it was but since I have a mill and lathe in the shop I decided to mill the material flat and square. The screw down positive SAE terminal that came with battery was off by 1.5 degs which doesn't allow proper grip by the Stinger HPM battery terminal so I will be making a post with the exact right taper hat matches the inside of the Stinger terminal shortly. I have some brass stock laying around but I may pick up some copper instead just to keep the material used the same. To those of you asking yourselves if this guy is anal the answer is undoubtedly yes! 

I didn't get a chance to take any pictures of the new battery yet but here are a few of the stock battery in the car and the before and after of the copper piece that I milled. Man, copper sure finishes nice! I just wish it stayed looking like that. Shame I will be covering it with shrink tubing or something to prevent shorts. All I had was a small 1/2" 4-flute endmill hence the multiple passes. I really need to invest in a fly cutter or the like.


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## Mless5

That's kind of sexy


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## sebberry

What's a "reverse polarity" battery? The positive terminal is negative and the chassis ground is actually live?


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## Mirage_Man

sebberry said:


> What's a "reverse polarity" battery? The positive terminal is negative and the chassis ground is actually live?


No they call it reverse polarity but it's just that the terminals are on opposite sides compared to a normal battery. The positive and negative terminals are flip flopped. Look at the battery in the picture above and you can see what I mean. Edited the post to clarify.


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## jorgegarcia

I like how you've started; and the fact that you have a mill and lathe at your disposal means that you are now my new enemy and that I envy you.

a lot.


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## Mirage_Man

jorgegarcia said:


> I like how you've started; and the fact that you have a mill and lathe at your disposal means that you are now my new enemy and that I envy you.
> 
> a lot.


:laugh:

Well while my lathe is a pretty decent machine my "mill" is just a mill/drill. It's ok for basic operations.

Here's a couple pics of my lathe and mill.


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## trojan fan

How much does something like that cost?


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## thewatusi

I have no idea what I would use a lathe like that for, but now I want one.


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## tibug

thewatusi said:


> I have no idea what I would use a lathe like that for, but now I want one.


I'll drink to that! :beerchug:

Oh, and looking solid so far! Gonna keep up with this one for certain.


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## Mirage_Man

trojan fan said:


> How much does something like that cost?


The lathe or mill?


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## Brian_smith06

I really look forward to this build. Im really considering an accord for my next car


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## Matt R

Sweet, lets get it goin!!!!


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## mine4118

that pattern looks fantastic...


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## katodevin

nice car!

Here's mine









One suggestion - You probably want something bigger for the rear fill other than the 4 inchers. I myself don't like rear fill, but limiting yourself to the midrange with the 4 incher is going to really make your image funky unless you have some uber processing going on. In my experience with those Tang Bands - They don't really like going lower than 350hz loudly, which I assume they'll have to do with 2 JL subs back there.

A 6.5 incher can fit pretty easily onto that back deck, so you may be better off getting something beefier and playing it from ~ 80hz - 500hz. Should give you some "meat" to the sound back there, without pulling your image funkily.


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## tuto's88t2

following this build


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## IBcivic

mattR mods + in-house machine shop...I like where this is heading


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## JediMentality

Looks like this lathe. About $1400. I mean if you use it a lot...

Anxious for the rest of the build :thumbsup:


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## Mirage_Man

JediMentality said:


> Looks like this lathe. About $1400. I mean if you use it a lot...
> 
> Anxious for the rest of the build :thumbsup:


Nope. It's THIS ONE actually. $7K not including the Newall DRO or any tooling or the rotary phase converter required to run it off household power. The one you linked to is $3800. The $1495 is for the DRO (digital read out)

The "rear fill" is something that is more of a ambiance recovery more than rear fill. It's something that Matt is helping me with and yes it will require extra processing .


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## SB3BabyHuey

Nice build, cant wait to see more. V6 6spd? Please say yes....


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## Mirage_Man

SB3BabyHuey said:


> Nice build, cant wait to see more. V6 6spd? Please say yes....


No, I got the 4. With the direction oil is heading I'm glad I did too. I came out of an '07 Tundra 5.7L. It would pass everything except a gas station :laugh:.


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## SB3BabyHuey

Mirage_Man said:


> No, I got the 4. With the direction oil is heading I'm glad I did too. I came out of an '07 Tundra 5.7L. It would pass everything except a gas station :laugh:.


Hippie, j/k. I swapped from my accord to a 6.2L denali. Worth it to me. Stop by v6p.net btw if you havent been there already. Tons of accord stuff, and im sure the guys over there would love to see the audio build. They dont really have anything as far as audio builds go, only a couple guys.


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## JediMentality

Shows how much I know  Still some pretty nifty garage equipment.



Mirage_Man said:


> Nope. It's THIS ONE actually. $7K not including the Newall DRO or any tooling or the rotary phase converter required to run it off household power. The one you linked to is $3800. The $1495 is for the DRO (digital read out)


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## SB3BabyHuey

JediMentality said:


> Shows how much I know  Still some pretty nifty garage equipment.


To say the least :laugh:


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## Mirage_Man

Small update:

Went by the metal supply shop again today and picked up some 1" copper round bar stock to use for the terminal posts that will be mounted to the busbar. I wasn't going to do anything with it tonight as I was whipped from work but I just couldn't resist .

I turned the taper on the bar to test fit the Stinger HPM terminal. The inside of the Stinger terminal has a 2 degree taper per side. Once I got the length right, slid the terminal on and tightened the set screws it was rock solid! It had a death grip that I think will be just what the doctor ordered.

That's all for today. More to follow....


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## jrs1006

Subscribed


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## Mirage_Man

Well I got some time for a project of my own today. So I finished up the busbar so I could install the XS Power battery. As usual it took way longer than I anticipated but came out really nice I think in the end. 

PS. drilling and tapping copper sucks! I ended up breaking a drill bit off in the material while drilling the hole for the main terminal so I had to start over and make another one. If you ever try drilling copper make sure to use plenty of lubricant! 

Here's a ton of pictures for you to peruse .

First milling and drilling holes for the terminal posts.


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## Mirage_Man

Next up making the main terminal post and pressing it into the bar.


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## Mirage_Man

Checking fit and putting some shrink tubing on to protect from shorts.


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## Mirage_Man

Comparison of next to stock battery and a couple more of the busbar installed.


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## Mirage_Man

Battery installed in car .


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## pankrok

thats a realy cool job mate!
but why did you had to put so many contacts in your power path? (from battery post to the amp cable there are 4)


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## Mirage_Man

pankrok said:


> thats a realy cool job mate!
> but why did you had to put so many contacts in your power path? (from battery post to the amp cable there are 4)


How do you figure? 

It's no different than if I attached the Stinger terminal directly to the post that came with the battery. The post directly on top of the screw in terminal will be for the Stinger terminal and the other end of the busbar is for the stock wiring harness.

Both copper terminals are pressed into the bar so in essence it's one solid piece of copper from one end to the other .


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## JayinMI

@Pankrok...I only see one. The amp battery terminal attaches directly to the battery terminal for the XS...the buss bar and secondary terminal are for the factory connection.










Jay


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## pankrok

battery to bar , bar to post , post to terminal , terminal to cable
comparing to ring terminal bolted on battery is +2. 

for the bolt I wouldn't could so much as contact as the material is not as good as copper and surface of the thread not enough (practically pressure is not equally spreaded on the thread)

the reason i m pointing this thing is that I m thinking of a way to minimize contacts from my battery to the amps (including the anl fuses).

another way way could be to form a thicker bar (12mm - 1/2") so the cable is fixed inside bar with tappers. of course your way looks by far more elaborated.

gold plating?


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## Mirage_Man

pankrok said:


> battery to bar , *bar to post* , post to terminal , terminal to cable


There is a connection between the post and bar but it's a .002" press fit so in reality it's like it's become one piece so I wouldn't count that as a "connection the sense you are talking about. 

So The way I see it there's the same number of "connections" in the ring terminal scenario as the way mine's set up now.

Mine: Battery to busbar, busbar to Stinger terminal, Stinger terminal to cable. That's 3.

Ring terminal: Battery post to terminal, terminal to ring terminal, ring terminal to cable. That's 3. 

Am I missing something?


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## t3sn4f2

Nice job one the extension. I'd find a way to secure it to the battery some how though, other then the original post screw. Maybe with something that anchors onto the bat lift strap mounts. Reason being that if say for instance the OEM terminal is not loosen completely before being pulled on, it could stress the batteries post and possibly damage it. I know you would not do this but say you take it in for service one day, some ape just might. The simple act of loosening the OEM terminal bolt could easily leverage the bus bar in that way. Also simple bump vibrations can stress it the same way over time.


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## m R g S r

nice workshop ya got there!


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## mattyjman

if you spend that much time on one item in your car, i'm in for the rest of the build  it's a shame that when all is said and done, all that copper work is 100% hidden


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## Mirage_Man

t3sn4f2 said:


> Nice job one the extension. I'd find a way to secure it to the battery some how though, other then the original post screw. Maybe with something that anchors onto the bat lift strap mounts. Reason being that if say for instance the OEM terminal is not loosen completely before being pulled on, it could stress the batteries post and possibly damage it. I know you would not do this but say you take it in for service one day, some ape just might. The simple act of loosening the OEM terminal bolt could easily leverage the bus bar in that way.


Good point. I will think on that.



t3sn4f2 said:


> Also simple bump vibrations can stress it the same way over time.


That's what this is for. It eliminates the "lever" issue, well at least in the downward direction.


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## t3sn4f2

Mirage_Man said:


> Good point. I will think on that.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what this is for. The first picture below didn't get posted in the first set of pictures. *It eliminates the "lever" issue, well at least in the downward direction.*


Yup, saw it on the other pic, thats why I didn't mention a problem when pushing down on the OEM terminal. But yeah vibrations on the up force will still be there. 

It's not really an issue on most things, but if there is one thing that is sensitive to these things is a batteries post.


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## pankrok

Mirage_Man said:


> There is a connection between the post and bar but it's a .002" press fit so in reality it's like it's become one piece so I wouldn't count that as a "connection the sense you are talking about.
> 
> So The way I see it there's the same number of "connections" in the ring terminal scenario as the way mine's set up now.
> 
> Mine: Battery to busbar, busbar to Stinger terminal, Stinger terminal to cable. That's 3.
> 
> Ring terminal: Battery post to terminal, terminal to ring terminal, ring terminal to cable. That's 3.
> 
> Am I missing something?


you are adding one contact, ring terminal could be bolted directly on the battery.

anyway I have noted that when adding contacts (especially poor contacts) thes mOhms have an impact to amp's dynamics.
every optimum contact adds 4-5mOhms, a poor contact can even reach 50mOhms.
so in your case you have something like 17-20mOhm while you could have half of it. 
just my point of view.


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## IBcivic

Nice work, Mirage man!:thumbsup:

Pankrok- Gold plating??? Gold is a lousy conductor


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## thewatusi

Looks great. What a creative solution to the reverse terminals and your workmanship is top notch. Can't wait to see what's next.


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## pankrok

amitaF said:


> Nice work, Mirage man!:thumbsup:
> 
> Pankrok- Gold plating??? Gold is a lousy conductor


lousy comparing to copper but still much better than copper oxide


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## IBcivic

pankrok said:


> lousy comparing to copper but still much better than copper oxide


NO-CORRODE battery gel = much, much cheaper  and we should all have a tube handy since we have terminal to bare steel connections in a few areas of our rides.


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## Mirage_Man

amitaF said:


> NO-CORRODE battery gel = much, much cheaper  and we should all have a tube handy since we have terminal to bare steel connections in a few areas of our rides.


Speaking of a corrosion inhibitor has anyone used CorrosionX? Seems to have a pretty strong reputation.


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## TRD07

clean


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## pankrok

amitaF said:


> NO-CORRODE battery gel = much, much cheaper  and we should all have a tube handy since we have terminal to bare steel connections in a few areas of our rides.


agree but still you cannot fully protect copper surface from oxidisation.
you would have to clean your contact surfaces from oxides quote offen. 
of course only in the case that you judge that few mOhms higher resistance is bad for you.


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## piston

Why not just clean coat the copper. That way you can maintian the cleanist look of that sexy copper bar.

Looks great, I wish I still had the tooling and the skills to do this kind of stuff.

J

Also, I am not sure why Pankrok is bringing up the factor of MilliOhms. I guess using his logic the best spot the the amp would be right next to the battery, cause then that reduces your loss even more, and dont use a fuse. Todays amps arent that fragile toward resistance.


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## jackp311

That really is nice work. I love machined copper. I think using the smaller surface and running multiple passes gives it a nice look.


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## pankrok

piston said:


> Also, I am not sure why Pankrok is bringing up the factor of MilliOhms. I guess using his logic the best spot the the amp would be right next to the battery, cause then that reduces your loss even more, and dont use a fuse. Todays amps arent that fragile toward resistance.


it is not a matter of resistance (it is actually as part of system damping factor where system in this point of view is power supply of car to power supply unit of amp) but it can be seen that a bad contact or multiple good contacts tend to create some kind of hysterisis (it is not the correct term) in the power path. 
contact resistance is a way to judge the quality of the contact.
it is not mine theory and i can not explain the best way possible (it has been explained in AES publication) 
each amp behaves differently on the load seen on its power supply path depending on the design of the circuit however you can make a very easy test on your system (home or car - never mind) to prove it. after you make sure that all kind of contacts are of high quality (very firm mechanical contact with clean surfaces including also the fuses) just push your amps hard enough using tracks of demanding dynamics at an acceptable spl (peaks of 125dB are enough).
listen to the same content after loosening one contact in the path. you should notice a difference (in some systems significant). fix again the loose contact to verify what you heard. you can also repeat in the speaker cables (especially low range where transients have increased volume).
these test have audible results even on home audio cd players (where you do not expect some mA to make such a difference)
sorry for hijacking this thread, maybe some posts should be transfered in a more relative thread


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## trojan fan

Nice start to your build...


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## Matt R

thewatusi said:


> Looks great. What a creative solution to the reverse terminals and your workmanship is top notch. Can't wait to see what's next.


I agree man, great positive comment!

About the connection discussion, I think if people worried about the audio signal path more than the resistance of a .002" press fit connection there would be way more insane systems in this world!!!!!!

Awesome connectors man, you should consider making your own instead of using the stingers. Seems like you easily have the skills.

Matt


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## cnut334

Great work so far! Looking forward to what's ahead.


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## f150fx4

Great job. I've got a friend who's a gunsmith and watching him on a lathe is art.

Looking forward to more.

George


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## Mirage_Man

Small update.

Got a little time today and decided to work on the rear deck and trunk lid. There's been a rattle or buzz ever since I removed the rear deck cover to have the windows tinted. So I started there trying to eliminate it. However while I was able to reduce it some I think it's just gonna have to be addressed later once the stock system comes out. I would post a pic of it but I didn't take any yet. I just have a couple of the trunk lid.

I learned a few things today:

1) Honda uses wayyyyy thin metal! Also getting CLD tiles on the outer metal skin of the trunk lid is areal PITA because of the inner skin!
2) I don't like applying CLD. It's grunt work IMHO. I'd rather be making something creative.
3) While I like the SDS tiles I'm gonna need more of them or something else. The 25% coverage deal did not produce the desired deadness I was after. 

A couple pics.


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## kvndoom

Whatever happened with this build?


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## Mirage_Man

kvndoom said:


> Whatever happened with this build?


Well its still in the works. Got the head unit, nav, hd radio and bt in. I plan to work on the build more in the next few months as time allows.


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## Matt R

Yeah what he said????

I have to agree about the grunt work, just have to buckle down and get it done!!!!


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## SiR_Dave

Good god that battery bar machine work is beautiful


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## dany2k3m

Can't wait to see what next, more pics please


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## trojan fan

What seems to be taking so long:laugh:


It must be worth the wait


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## ikoolguy

this is inspiration! i wish i had the tools and more knowledge on installation.


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## Mirage_Man

OK so while it's not quite Fall the temps are slightly cooler in the AM now, so I am getting started on my most dreaded portion of my build... sound deadening.

Today I pulled out all the trunk carpet and the back seat bottom and seat back. Tomorrow I will remove the back seat side panels.

I found that Honda has applied some kind of panel vibration dampener already. I am trying to decide whether or not I should remove it before applying the CLD material. If I do remove it what is the best method? Anyone have any experience or advice on this? 

Here are a few pics.


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## wdemetrius1

If it were me I would simply leave it.


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## Matt R

Pull hard!!


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## IBcivic

I removed that stuff when fall temperatures were near freezing. Smacking it with a plastic hammer, caused it to shatter into dorito sized chips.
I once saw guys use dry ice, to remove that crap.


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## Mirage_Man

amitaF said:


> I removed that stuff when fall temperatures were near freezing. Smacking it with a plastic hammer, caused it to shatter into dorito sized chips.
> I once saw guys use dry ice, to remove that crap.


So you removed it and replaced it with some other CLD material I take it. What type of treatment did you replace it with and could you tell the difference?

The only thing is it doesn't get to near freezing here in FL very often . Maybe a heat gun to soften it up and scrape it off with a putty knife?


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## IBcivic

Mirage_Man said:


> So you removed it and replaced it with some other CLD material I take it. What type of treatment did you replace it with and could you tell the difference?


It was replaced with dynamat extreme. At the time I did treat the civic's trunk, I used the old belief that the more surface is covered, the better, technique. But it did make a hell of a difference in controlling panel resonance.
(my exhaust drone was reduced by 50%)
The same end result can be achieved by strategically applying cld tiles and or mat, w/o covering the entire vehicle, which is, IMHO, a waste of money.


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## Sulley

Subscribed for updates! That buss bar is sex. I done some deading last November in the driveway (-12°C) because the garage was taken up by the snowmobiles. Never Again...Ever.


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## Mirage_Man

Got to do some more work today. Got the panels in the back seat off and started applying the CLD tiles. I am using Don's formula for the CLD tile application of 25% coverage, at least in all the areas except the doors. The doors will receive 2 layers on the outer and 1 layer on the inner door skin.


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## Mirage_Man




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## Mirage_Man

Today's progress... 

Cutting and gluing together the MLV to get it to conform to the back seat pan area is a royal PITA! I sure hope all this effort pays off because I will never do it again if it doesn't.

I'm gonna have to figure out how to handle the vertical arm rest area of the car. The back of the panels have dense Styrofoam blocks that fit into the holes in the inner skin of the car. Since one of the biggest problem areas I'm trying to treat is the noise from the rear tires this will be critical. I don't know if cutting the foam off is a good idea or not?


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## Mirage_Man

Had a couple hours this AM to work on the Accord. I mananged to get the front seats, center console, trim and rear section of carpet out. Working on the best way to get the front section of carpet out due to the shifter and various wiring harnesses being bolted on top of carpet after carpet was installed. I called a Honda dealer and they said they cut the carpet in front of the shifter and pull it out in two pieces . Don't know if I have the willingness to do that.


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## Mirage_Man

Had about 45 minutes today. Decided to go ahead and cut the front carpet to get it out :worried:. It should be OK though as the shifter bolts donw over it and will hold it in place.

Also decided to try removing the factory deadening compound in hte passenger rear footwell. A few minutes with a putty knife it just popped right off. I should be able to save some thickness for the CCF and MLV by removing it and replacing it with CLD tiles.


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## DAT

Love the BussBar made of Copper, now you can make me one. LOL

Subscribed


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## Mirage_Man

OK guys another update. I'm taking a break from the project as I type this. It's 90+ degrees outside and I am working in the driveway... in a black car... in Florida!

Anyway, I decided to remove all the factory dampening crud and replace with CLD material in the foot well areas, both front and back.. Some of it came off as if it weren't even attached to the metal so I'm glad I decided to take it off as it probably wasn't doing any good. Once it was removed and thoroughly cleaned with denatured alcohol and a scotch-brite it was wiped clean. Then the CLD was applied. I admit I went a little overboard with the CLD. I know it was not necessary to cover as much as I did but oh well. 

Once the CLD was down I started the process of laying CCF and MLV. The Accord has raised sections of sheet metal running between the front and back foot wells that the seats bolt to. In both the front and back foot wells there are molded Styrofoam blocks attached to carpet pad and a real thin MLV material. I had to figure out how to work around these obstacles which were are real challenge. I envy anyone doing this to an older car that doesn't have all the crap down here this car has!

Here's what I did. The MLV/carpet pad material is lightly glued to the back of the carpet so I pulled it apart (it fell off actually after sitting in the sun). Then I removed the pad/MLV from the styrofoam and positioned the foam blocks where they belonged in the foot wells. I cut the CCF to fit and glued it to the foam blocks. Then laid the MLV over that. I think what I'm going to do on the passenger side is leave the stock pad/MLV and cover the entire area with 1/8" CCF insted of 1/4" then cover that with the MLV. That way there will actually be two layers of MLV in a couple areas.

What you see in the pictures below is the driver side front and back done. I will be working on the passenger side shortly.


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## katodevin

beautiful work. I have a coupe too, and always have wanted to MLV it, but my laziness gets in the way. Too bad you're not closer to cali, I would throw a ton of money to have someone do it the right way.


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## Mirage_Man

katodevin said:


> beautiful work. I have a coupe too, and always have wanted to MLV it, but my laziness gets in the way. Too bad you're not closer to cali, I would throw a ton of money to have someone do it the right way.


LOL, I relate to the lazy remark. I've had the materials to do this for a year!


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## Mirage_Man

Just a few more pictures from today's marathon.

Someone asked about the contact adhesive I am using. It's HH-66. I got it from Don at SDS when I ordered the rest of the materials.























































Here's a shot of the back seat shelf I did first.


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## wdemetrius1

Very nice work!!!


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## Mirage_Man

Anyone know if it's a bad idea to trim these styrofoam blocks on the back of the back seat trim panels? It would make it easier to hang the mlv since these blocks pass through the inner skin into a void.










Sent from my Droid Thunderbolt.


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## Mirage_Man

Here's the area I'm talking about.










Sent from my Droid Thunderbolt.


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## Matt R

I'd cut them off and seal em up with all that stuff you got.


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## derickveliz

*Very nice!*


I really like what MLV did to my ride!

D.


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## Mirage_Man

Here's Sunday's update. I would have posted earlier but my CF card reader took a dump and I had to get a new one.

Anyway, we had a ton of rain Sunday so not much progress was made on the car. I did manage to get the floor to the point where I got the carpet back in and the shifter bolted back down. The carpet fits fine as far as I can tell. I didn't try fitting the trim back on as of yet. I want to get the wiring for the system done first to see if I need to make any adjustments on the MLV.

To the pictures...

This was the view from my garage for a large percentage of the day. 










I took the time to organize the shop and get most of the car's interior off my work table.










Here's a few shots of the floor done without and with the carpet in.


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## Mirage_Man

Started trying to figure out how to deal with the area to the sides of the back seat. I posted about the trim panel in a couple posts back. I laid the panel on a piece of CCF and traced it out to give me a starting point. I taped it up and began trimming it to fit.


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## t3sn4f2

Awesome detailed work man! And excellent pics as well.


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## Mirage_Man

Small update this AM. After staring at the rear seat trim panels and the gaping holes in which the foam block passes through the inner skin sheet metal I finally made the decision to just trim some foam off the panels. This will allow me to have a contiguous sheet of MLV over the holes. That in conjunction with stuffing that void with an acoustic material like Thinsulate should help a ton with blocking noise.


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## bkjay

Great work I bet its gonna be pretty quit.


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## Mirage_Man

Worked on the driver side back seat side panel area. Got the CCF and MLV fit and ready to go. Ended up using that first piece of CCF as a template only. I used a new piece to go under the MLV that I was able to fit a little better. One thing I've learned is that it's much easier to pop the clips out that are holding the factory wiring and cut holes in the CCF/MLV to fit rather than trying to cut slits in the CCF/MLV.

Can't wait to get done with this stuff so I can start on the stereo build!!


----------



## Matt R

Does your wife know your using the butter knife to work on the car?? ;~)


----------



## wdemetrius1

Nice caught. I had to go back and look again. LOL.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Matt R said:


> Does your wife know your using the butter knife to work on the car?? ;~)


Well that would be a hell of a "butter" knife. Oh and I'm the knife wielder in the house so that would be my knife! :laugh:


----------



## gtrplyr

nice metal work


----------



## sq_guru

Impressive machining work!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Thanks for the compliments everyone.

Some more progress to report. I think I am finished with the deadening in the cabin area now, not counting the rear deck. Finished up the CCF/MLV on both sides of the rear seat today. I also siliconed the back of the cup holders where they mate with the rear trim panels to prevent them from rattling once the system is up and running.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Mirage_man, were you able to use 1/4" CCF on the whole car, or were there areas that need the thinner 1/8" variety?


----------



## Mirage_Man

t3sn4f2 said:


> Mirage_man, were you able to use 1/4" CCF on the whole car, or were there areas that need the thinner 1/8" variety?


The only area I used 1/4" was under the carpet so far. Everything in the Accord fits together pretty snug without any CCF/MLV so 1/4" CCF and 1/8" MLV together is tuff to use behind the panels. Not saying it can't be done, just that I don't have the patience to F with it any more than I already have to make it fit if you know what I mean .


----------



## t3sn4f2

Mirage_Man said:


> The only area I used 1/4" was under the carpet so far. Everything in the Accord fits together pretty snug without any CCF/MLV so 1/4" CCF and 1/8" MLV together is tuff to use behind the panels. Not saying it can't be done, just that I don't have the patience to F with it any more than I already have to make it fit if you know what I mean .


I hear ya. Can't wait for the before and after impressions.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Yay, I did some work today on something other than deadening! I located and drilled the hole in the firewall for the 1/0 power wire to run through. I also made a rubber washer for the firewall grommet since it didn't come with one. After seeing the 1/0 laying next to the factory loom running down the sill I think I may have to run in under the carpet on the floor pan. 

Anyone know where to get regular rubber grommets that will fit the Stinger HPM 1/0?

Some of what I'm posting may be pretty basic but I figured I'd show some of those steps and tools we take for granted to help the newbie see how it can be done. 

Located where to put the hole and drilled a pilot hole to make sure it was where I wanted it.



















Got out my Irwin Uni-bits and drilled the hole to 1+1/16". First with the smaller one to 3/4" then put the bigger bit in and drilled the rest of the way.










What you see right below the hole is a flat magnet that I used to catch most of the metal swarf that fell into the car.




























Cleaned up the burrs with some sand paper.










On to the rubber washer. While it does seal the wire to the grommet the Stinger 1/0 firewall bushing does not come with any kind of gasket to seal the face of the grommet to the firewall (DUH!). So I decided to make my own. I bought a 1+1/2"x3/16" rubber washer from Ace to modify. I turned a piece of aluminum on the lathe to use as a die. I put the washer/die in my vise with a plywood on the back of the washer and tightened it until it cut through the washer.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Continued.


----------



## papasin

t3sn4f2 said:


> I hear ya. Can't wait for the before and after impressions.


Same question, thoughts on the before and after wrt how much "quieter" the car is, especially at speeds of 55mph or over?


----------



## Mirage_Man

papasin said:


> Same question, thoughts on the before and after wrt how much "quieter" the car is, especially at speeds of 55mph or over?


As soon as the car is back together and in a drivable condition you know I'll let everyone know my thoughts.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Alright now we're getting to some of the fun stuff, well almost .

Today I pulled the door cards, removed the vapor barrier and all the stock speakers including those on the rear deck.

I found the metal bracket that helps secure the door card to the sheet metal on the driver side was not attached. It is supposed to be attached to the door card by a screw. There was absolutely no way to screw it back on since it was obviously done before the panels were assembled. So I mixed up some JB Weld to hold it on place. Fortunately there are locating tabs to line it up correctly. I also put a dab of JB on the back of the screw on the passenger side to prevent it from working its way out (it was already loose!).


----------



## kvndoom

Mirage_Man said:


>


Probably the best "factory" speakers I've heard yet. Maybe not saying a hell of a whole lot, but I've had my car 4 months and haven't disassembled my doors yet, which is *unheard *of in my world. :laugh:


----------



## Mirage_Man

kvndoom said:


> Probably the best "factory" speakers I've heard yet. Maybe not saying a hell of a whole lot, but I've had my car 4 months and haven't disassembled my doors yet, which is *unheard *of in my world. :laugh:


I hear ya. I've had my car for a year and am just getting to the build. Granted other commitments greatly hindered my time but like you said the stock system really wasn't all that bad... for stock. So it was easier to deal with.


----------



## novanutcase

Where'd you buy the bulkheads? Parts Express? I looked on there but didn't see them.....

John


----------



## Mirage_Man

novanutcase said:


> Where'd you buy the bulkheads? Parts Express? I looked on there but didn't see them.....
> 
> John


If you're talking about the firewall bushing I got mine from a local Stinger dealer. However, I did a search at PE for "firewall bushing" and they sell some packaged by Streewires. It looks like they come with rubber washers too.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Today's brief work provided a pleasant surprise. I set out to get the speaker wire for the mids and tweets through the boots into the doors. What I thought I was going be a major PITA turned out to be a relatively simple and easy process. 

First thing I did was unbolt the arm that stops the door at certain points. Once unbolted from the main body I pushed it into the door to get it out of the way. Much easier to work with it moved since it's so tight there between the door and body.










Once that arm was out of the way I popped the boot/plastic housing off the body and got my pleasent surprise. There was a molex connector but there was a ton of room around it in which to run the speaker wire. On my last vehicle ('07 Tundra) the molex connector snapped into the sheet metal of the pillar with no room anywhere to run new wire. This however has a ton of room! Thank God for small miracles .





































Next up was to run the wire. I am using Stinger 16 gauge twisted pair which has a clear outer jacket that makes it a bit thicker than even regular larger gauge wire. The easiest method I have found to get the wire through the boot without buying any special tools is to just duct tape the wire a metal coat hanger that I've bent the end on as to not snag on anything while pushing it through.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Now since I've got two runs that need to go into the door, one for the tweeter (stock sail panel location) and one for the mid (stock door location) I made it easy on myself and pulled them both at the same time. I pulled one piece through first then taped the other wire to it and pulled it through with the first wire.





































Then I pulled the slack back out, reconnected the molex plug and put everythign back together. I would have done the driver's side but I'm a little short on speaker wire. I need to pick up another spool as one of the two in the pictures was only a partial to begin with. Since I'm not sure exactly where the amps will be I need to leave plenty of wire to work with on the other end.


----------



## Mopar244DIY

Nothing beats workin on new cars.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Small update today. 

While I had most of the day to work I didn’t get nearly as much done as I would have liked. I suppose that’s the story more often than not though, LOL. 

First off I changed my mind on tweeter placement from sail panels to pillars. I also decided to change the 16 gauge speaker wire out with 14 gauge. The difference is minimal but I figured I might as well use slightly thicker wire since I had to get some more anyway. So I pulled both the twisted wires out of the passenger door that I ran the other day. I ran one 14 gauge there for the mid and one to the pillar location for the tweeter. Then I did the same on the driver’s side. Next I routed the 1/0 power wire under the dash, dead pedal and down along the rocker panel area through the holes that the trunk/gas access cable runs. I did that because there was very little room under the rocker panel trim. I ran the right speaker wire the same on both sides. Of course I zip tied everything every six inches or less as I routed them back to the trunk.


Once the speaker and 1/0 was run and secured I turned my attention to running the Ai-Net and optical cables for the H701. The plan is to run them down the center of the car. First however I had to pull out the radio and clean up the current rat’s nest behind it. In a rush before going on vacation I paid a local shop to install the radio, BT, SWC, HD tuner and Nav modules. Needless to say I wish I had done it myself! I spent the better part of 3 hours relocating the HD and Nav modules along with the BT mic and Nav antenna. I also hooked up a different factory wire harness adapter as the other one was hooked up to the factory amp since I _was_ using the stock speakers. I’m still working on cleaning up the head unit wiring and need to figure out how to daisy chain the H701 and HD tuner together. Once I nail that down I can button up the dash.

That’s it for today.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Well not much done today...it's been raining since last night non stop. I did however manage to get all the wiring routed into the dash and the head unit back in. You can't tell from the pictures but there's an HD Tuner along with a BT and NAV module in there. Also SWC, parking brake deal for video and all the associated wires and Ai-Net cables. Let's just say it's a bit tight in there. :laugh:

While I was working on the wiring.










Wiring done and HU back in.



















Here's a shot I left out of the previous post of the tweeter wire at the pillar location.


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## trojan fan

Nice attention to details....I like how you're taking your time and doing it the right way

Keep up the good work


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## Mirage_Man

Decided to add a couple rivets to that bracket on the back od the door card.










Sent from my Droid Thunderbolt.


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## Mirage_Man

Door trim panels and outer door skins more or less done. Just need to finish up the driver side.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Anyone wanna guess what this is for?










Sent from my Droid Thunderbolt.


----------



## boogeyman

Mirage_Man said:


> Anyone wanna guess what this is for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Droid Thunderbolt.



Door baffle?

Nice work on the car by the way.


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## Mirage_Man

boogeyman said:


> Door baffle?
> 
> Nice work on the car by the way.


Door speaker rings... and thank you . A friend of mine roughed them out on his lathe since he has a trepanning tool. I will finish them up on mine to the final dimensions once they are determined.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

speaker baffles - WHAT DO I WIN ????


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## Mirage_Man

Just playing around with the camera.

The rings are pretty big at 8" O.D. and 5" I.D. and over an 1" thick. I will likely take them down to around 7" O.D. and a little bigger I.D. than 5". The thickness will be 3/4" or under to fit the Dynaudio driver behind the door panel.


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## Mirage_Man

Taking a break to post a few pics of what I'm working on now... the speaker rings. I determined that the thickness of the rings need to be 1/2" to allow them to fit behind the door panel. Taking the roughed rings down to that thickness takes quite some time when you're only taking off .050" per pass. The diameter also has to be right at 7" so I had to take a full 1" off the diameter. Again a real time consumer. Anyway, here's a few pics of where I'm at.


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## Mirage_Man

OK so just finished up for the day. Managed to get the rings to the right dimensions just need to layout, drill and tap the driver mounting holes along with ring mounting holes. I also put most of the trim back in the front of that car after applying a little dampener .


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## eighty5iv

Mirage_Man said:


> OK so just finished up for the day. Managed to get the rings to the right dimensions just need to layout, drill and tap the driver mounting holes along with ring mounting holes. I also put most of the trim back in the front of that car after applying a little dampener .


Gorgeous. Amazing work. Makes me wish I had the tools to do the same.


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## Mirage_Man

eighty5iv said:


> Gorgeous. Amazing work. Makes me wish I had the tools to do the same.


Thanks Man.


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## Baada

I am so jealous. I used to work somewhere with a full machine shop that was available for my use anytime I wanted and never did my system. Now that I don't work there....it's time to put my system in. Figures.

Minor suggestion....you might want to think about putting some type of layer between the speakers and the rings. With your humidity in FL you may get some corrosion between them as they are dissimiliar metals. Paint would probably be good enough but a very thin layer of something might be better.


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## Mirage_Man

Baada said:


> I am so jealous. I used to work somewhere with a full machine shop that was available for my use anytime I wanted and never did my system. Now that I don't work there....it's time to put my system in. Figures.
> 
> Minor suggestion....you might want to think about putting some type of layer between the speakers and the rings. With your humidity in FL you may get some corrosion between them as they are dissimiliar metals. Paint would probably be good enough but a very thin layer of something might be better.


Already contemplating a gasket of some kind. Funny thing is the sheet metal on the inner skin is seamed down through the speaker opening (see picture below). Both sides of the seam are not the same, they overlap. So one side of the seam is about .020" back. If I put the ring up there it rocks on the seam. Not sure how I'm gonna fix this just yet. Maybe a speaker sealing caulk is all I really need.

Anyone have any ideas?


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## Baada

I'm sure you will make a tool and die to cut out a perfectly matched gasket!

Just to be clear....I was referring to a gasket of sorts between the rings you made and the speakers....but you could do one between the rings and the door skin too.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Baada said:


> I'm sure you will make a tool and die to cut out a perfectly matched gasket!
> 
> Just to be clear....I was referring to a gasket of sorts between the rings you made and the speakers....but you could do one between the rings and the door skin too.


Ah. Well I planned on a gasket between the ring and the speaker too.


----------



## SSexpo03

Nice work! Keep it up, looking forward to seeing more!


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## strong*I*bumpin

A couple of layers of deadener should seal the baffle to the door pretty good.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Today I removed the factory dampening crud in the trunk near the back seat. I think this will be the area where the processor and distribution block will go. If I can fit them the Symbilink boxes will go here as well. I will apply some CLD tiles and glue a piece of MDF down to mount the processor etc. At least that's the plan as of right now.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Well the rings I machined are back with my real machinist buddy. He's going to drill and tap the speaker mounting holes and door mounting holes for me. He's got more knowledge and the right tools to do it. So since I got a package yesterday from US Composites I decided to start on making the panels to seal up the doors.

It's been awhile since I've worked with fiberglass, since my last build on the Tundra, but I did OK with only a few small bubbles. Unfortunately I couldn't find my roller so I had to stipple it all with a brush. Gonna pick up a new roller today though. One thing I can say is the B-404 is not the same as the B-440 that I used before. It's a real shame it's no longer available.


----------



## Rudeboy

Mirage_Man said:


> One thing I can say is the B-404 is not the same as the B-440 that I used before. It's a real shame it's no longer available.


Really disappointed to hear that. Did they tell you why?


----------



## Mirage_Man

Rudeboy said:


> Really disappointed to hear that. Did they tell you why?


Yes, they said there was a decrease of availability of some of the key components coupled with a small demand for the actual resin. The higher cost to produce it was not justified anymore.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Here's a pic of the drawing my buddy did of the hole layout on the speaker rings.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Did some more glass work this AM. I did the first few layers on the smaller opening on the driver's side door and a couple more on the passenger door. I was able to remove all the wire harnesses and cables running through the openings. I will cut holes in the FG panels to route the cables later. The passenger door has some bubbles I didn't see yesterday but should be OK. You will also see I forgot to trace the cut out on the panel I did today. Shouldn't be too hard to draw it directly on the FG tomorrow once it's dry.


----------



## HondAudio

Mirage_Man said:


> Already contemplating a gasket of some kind. Funny thing is the sheet metal on the inner skin is seamed down through the speaker opening (see picture below). Both sides of the seam are not the same, they overlap. So one side of the seam is about .020" back. If I put the ring up there it rocks on the seam. Not sure how I'm gonna fix this just yet. Maybe a speaker sealing caulk is all I really need.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?


This:

Darice Foamies 12''x18'' 3mm Foam Sheets - 1PK/MANY COLORS*: foam & foamies*: kids & teachers*: Shop | Joann.com

Gaskets are exactly what I'm using them for. It's ~1/16" CCF. Even at 1/16", it seems pretty difficult to compress with just my fingers - perfect for gaskets. They have different thicknesses [which you may require] and a bunch of colors, but black will be just fine in in this situation. 

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! For two 7" speaker rings, you'll only need a single sheet


----------



## Complacent_One

I like the thinking behind sealing off the doors.

The only recommendation I would have made would have been to cut up some 1/4 dowel or plastic tubing and taped it to the cardboard prior to taping up the mold. This would provide increased rigidity/resistance to flex in the panels. It would create raised channels in the fiberglass, much like the embossing in the inner door skin metal. It would be more closely related to bead rolling flat metal for custom floor pans and stuff.

Just my opinion....

Either way, looks like it should turn out to be a definite plus for the sound from the doors.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Complacent_One said:


> I like the thinking behind sealing off the doors.
> 
> The only recommendation I would have made would have been to cut up some 1/4 dowel or plastic tubing and taped it to the cardboard prior to taping up the mold. This would provide increased rigidity/resistance to flex in the panels. It would create raised channels in the fiberglass, much like the embossing in the inner door skin metal. It would be more closely related to bead rolling flat metal for custom floor pans and stuff.
> 
> Just my opinion....
> 
> Either way, looks like it should turn out to be a definite plus for the sound from the doors.


I actually have done something similar to that in the past however I decided against it. I don't think for this panel it's necessary. 

This is the inside of the sub box I did for my Tundra. I used rope and layed glass over it to add strength.


----------



## Baada

HondAudio said:


> This:
> 
> Darice Foamies 12''x18'' 3mm Foam Sheets - 1PK/MANY COLORS*: foam & foamies*: kids & teachers*: Shop | Joann.com
> 
> Gaskets are exactly what I'm using them for. It's ~1/16" CCF. Even at 1/16", it seems pretty difficult to compress with just my fingers - perfect for gaskets. They have different thicknesses [which you may require] and a bunch of colors, but black will be just fine in in this situation.
> 
> BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! For two 7" speaker rings, you'll only need a single sheet


I was thinking as I was reading your post, this sure sounds like a get two for only $19.95 ad. Then the 'BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE' part cracked my ass up.


----------



## Mirage_Man

HondAudio said:


> This:
> 
> Darice Foamies 12''x18'' 3mm Foam Sheets - 1PK/MANY COLORS*: foam & foamies*: kids & teachers*: Shop | Joann.com
> 
> Gaskets are exactly what I'm using them for. It's ~1/16" CCF. Even at 1/16", it seems pretty difficult to compress with just my fingers - perfect for gaskets. They have different thicknesses [which you may require] and a bunch of colors, but black will be just fine in in this situation.
> 
> BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! For two 7" speaker rings, you'll only need a single sheet


Hmm if it's CCF I have lots of 1/8" laying around from the sound-deadening I've been doing. I may look at using that but am leaning more towards using butyl rope at this point.


----------



## HondAudio

Mirage_Man said:


> Hmm if it's CCF I have lots of 1/8" laying around from the sound-deadening I've been doing. I may look at using that but am leaning more towards using butyl rope at this point.


That rope is pretty sticky. You might not be able to pull the rings off the doors if you squish that between the aluminum rings and the door skin.


----------



## Rudeboy

HondAudio said:


> That rope is pretty sticky. You might not be able to pull the rings off the doors if you squish that between the aluminum rings and the door skin.


There's a trick to that - pull slowly. The adhesive will stretch and eventual release. If you try to get it of with force, it will fight back


----------



## Babs

Ah good.. I was going to suggest butyl rope as gasket. Almost exact same scenario in my 08 Civic doors. For the win for this situation.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Had the whole day more less today to work on the car. I was able to pull the smaller glassed panels and trim them down. Note to self, don't ever forget to use a release agent again when glassing like this. I used a carnuba car wax on one side of the car and not on the other. The results are obvious from the following pictures which side didn't get waxed.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Then I glassed the larger openings on both doors which are currently curing. Didn't forget the wax this time!


----------



## Mirage_Man

My buddy came by with the aluminum speaker rings that he drilled and tapped on a CNC mill. He left the bolt holes for mounting to them to the door to me. I drilled and counter-bored them for the 1/4x20 SS pan head bolts. I clamped the rings in place to drill the holes through the sheet metal to mount them to the door. I also scribed where I needed to trim the sheet metal to allow the Dyn to fit. Trimmed the sheet metal with a Dremel and cut off disc. Then hit the sharp edges with a drum sanding disc. It did take much.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Mounted the Dynaudio MW162 driver to test fit. Finally looking like I'm getting somewhere!


----------



## Baada

Those look just like the standard speaker adapter rings you can buy on Ebay.....NOT! 

Fantastic job dude, those Dyns look like they were designed for that door.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Baada said:


> Those look just like the standard speaker adapter rings you can buy on Ebay.....NOT!
> 
> Fantastic job dude, those Dyns look like they were designed for that door.


Thanks man. It's nice to know when your hard work is appreciated .


----------



## Mirage_Man

I didn't take any pictures but yesterday I drilled/counter-bored the ring for the passenger door as well as cut the opening and drilled the holes to mount it to the door. I also layed down another layer of glass on the larger panels

Today I pulled the larger fiberglass panels off the doors. Boy what a difference using that wax made getting them off the tape! Once pulled I used my air saw to cut off the excess and trim them to shape. The air saw is a much cleaner method of trimming than the Dremell. Once to the right size I hit the edges with the air sander to smooth out the sharp edges.


----------



## Mirage_Man




----------



## pankrok

:snacks:


----------



## HondAudio

I had to go back to look - I see that you don't have big foam blocks attached to the inner door panels that would poke through those big holes into the door itself; that's why you're having no problem attaching those fiberglass pieces.

What are you using to hold them on? Rivets? You may want something that's only semi-permanent in case you have to open the door to service the window or... apply more sound deadening 

I have 3 large holes in my doors, but I can only cover one because the foam blocks protrude through the other two. I'm going to see what it's like once everything is installed, and I may or may not trim the foam in the future.


----------



## Mirage_Man

HondAudio said:


> I had to go back to look - I see that you don't have big foam blocks attached to the inner door panels that would poke through those big holes into the door itself; that's why you're having no problem attaching those fiberglass pieces.
> 
> What are you using to hold them on? Rivets? You may want something that's only semi-permanent in case you have to open the door to service the window or... apply more sound deadening
> 
> I have 3 large holes in my doors, but I can only cover one because the foam blocks protrude through the other two. I'm going to see what it's like once everything is installed, and I may or may not trim the foam in the future.


Yeah, I don't think the one foam block on the bottom of the door card will go through. However if it did I would cut it off like I did to the foam blocks on the back seat trim panels.

As to what I'm going to hold them on with? Self tapping sheet metal screws is the plan as of right now. That way should I need to get in there I'll be able to.


----------



## Mirage_Man

This AM I worked on attaching the passenger FG panels. Also drilling and cutting the holes for the wire harnesses to pass through. Just about done with the passenger side. Just need to notch out the larger panel for the door latch/lock cables.


----------



## Baada

My favorite part is that you are taking time to make the stuff that no one will ever see as perfect as you can get it.....just like I would. Nice.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Baada said:


> My favorite part is that you are taking time to make the stuff that no one will ever see as perfect as you can get it.....just like I would. Nice.


Yes, but I will know what's back there .

I also believe that the build is a sum of its parts. So cutting corners may well shine through. I've learned over the years that I'm better off in the long run doing something to the best of my ability right from the start rather than having to go back and redo it later.


----------



## Baada

Amen brother.


----------



## timbo2

this is looking real sexxy! good job son


----------



## pastrol

Awesome build guy!!!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Well had a bit of a set back today. While working on the MLV for the doors I discovered that the larger FG panel made contact with the back of the door panel in several spots. So I had to cut out some notches in the panel to be able to get the trim panel to fit. I think I will go back and glass a pocket on the back side of the notches to allow proper fit. I guess the one positive of having to do this is the panel will be much more rigid once done. Why I didn't think to check this earlier is I guess my lack of experience. Won't make this mistake again. Hopefully my mistake will save someone else from making the same one.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Here's what I did with the MLV up to the point where I discovered the problem with the panel fitting back on.


----------



## Rudeboy

You want to be sure the Styro blocks aren't intended to rest against the window when it is rolled down. This is often done to brace the glass so it doesn't rattle. If this is the case and you create fiberglass pockets to accommodate the Styro, the windows will hit the fiberglass. Assuming this is all true, you have two options:

1) Say **** it - I never drive with the windows off and just snap the Styro blocks off the door card.

2) Go back in time, to the moment before you cut the holes in the FG plates  Snap the Styro Blocks off the door card and trim them so that when glued to the back of the FG plates they will be in their original position - bracing the window when it's rolled down.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Rudeboy said:


> You want to be sure the Styro blocks aren't intended to rest against the window when it is rolled down. This is often done to brace the glass so it doesn't rattle. If this is the case and you create fiberglass pockets to accommodate the Styro, the windows will hit the fiberglass. Assuming this is all true, you have two options:
> 
> 1) Say **** it - I never drive with the windows off and just snap the Styro blocks off the door card.
> 
> 2) Go back in time, to the moment before you cut the holes in the FG plates  Snap the Styro Blocks off the door card and trim them so that when glued to the back of the FG plates they will be in their original position - bracing the window when it's rolled down.


It's not the styro block that hits the FG panel. It does not go through at all anywhere. What's hitting the FG is part of the molded plastic where to pieces are melted together behind the contoured area above the arm rest. It only passes through an inch at the most too! I guess I'm lucky that this is the only thing that passes through.


----------



## Rudeboy

Mirage_Man said:


> It's not the styro block that hits the FG panel. It does not go through at all anywhere. What's hitting the FG is part of the molded plastic where to pieces are melted together behind the contoured area above the arm rest. I guess I'm lucky that this is the only thing that passes through.


That's good news - saves you the time travel problem


----------



## HondAudio

Rudeboy said:


> You want to be sure the Styro blocks aren't intended to rest against the window when it is rolled down. This is often done to brace the glass so it doesn't rattle. If this is the case and you create fiberglass pockets to accommodate the Styro, the windows will hit the fiberglass. Assuming this is all true, you have two options:
> 
> 1) Say **** it - I never drive with the windows off and just snap the Styro blocks off the door card.
> 
> 2) Go back in time, to the moment before you cut the holes in the FG plates  Snap the Styro Blocks off the door card and trim them so that when glued to the back of the FG plates they will be in their original position - bracing the window when it's rolled down.


This is precisely why I'm not messing with the styrofoam blocks in the doors on my xB install. I'm keeping the vapor barrier in place over those holes and letting the blocks stay. Everything else will be deadened to the extent I can. >_>


----------



## Mirage_Man

Alright then, so I basically lost about half a day due to my screw up. That's about how long it took to rework the larger door panels to allow proper door card fitment. What I did was cut a hole out of them and made a form that was taped on from the back side. Then I screwed it back on the door and taped off the one side to create a shape that would work. Then glassed it.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Once back off the door I trimmed them once more and sanded the areas where the new glass met the old. Then I cut holes for the door latch/lock cables and screwed them to the door to check to make sure the window still goes down. It does .





































Just to make sure I went ahead and tested the driver side by putting all the wire harnesses where they go and put the trim panel back on. It fits!! :rockon: 



















The only question now is will I be able to get any deadening material back there at all? I have a feeling it's gonna be tight.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Dont you just hate that when **** goes perfect until you go to put the door card back on ....great work Mang


----------



## katodevin

dang, want to use those as a mold to make a set of them for me? I'll pay you some $$ and make it worth your while. PM if you're interested.


----------



## tonesmith

What pain in the ass, good job man.

I have an 07' Accord sedan with similar doors. Instead of glass I cutout thin plastic, then applied deadening to Both sides and screwed into place and deadened some more. I did the passenger side first and did not cover the holes in the driver side. I compared both sides before doing the driver side to see if it would be worth doing to both sides. It was not.

I hope your method pays off.

My speakers were CDT ES 07's. A big problem is the door panel, it is a ***** to stiffen and rattles alot.

How are you going to stiffen the panel?


----------



## Mirage_Man

tonesmith said:


> What pain in the ass, good job man.
> 
> I have an 07' Accord sedan with similar doors. Instead of glass I cutout thin plastic, then applied deadening to Both sides and screwed into place and deadened some more. I did the passenger side first and did not cover the holes in the driver side. I compared both sides before doing the driver side to see if it would be worth doing to both sides. It was not.
> 
> I hope your method pays off.


That makes two of us .



tonesmith said:


> My speakers were CDT ES 07's. A big problem is the door panel, it is a ***** to stiffen and rattles alot.
> 
> How are you going to stiffen the panel?


Are you talking about the inner skin sheet metal or the door card rattling? If you're talking about the door card I've already applied a liberal amount of dampener to it. This is the first aftermarket system I've put in this car so I'll address rattles as needed when they present themselves.


----------



## Mirage_Man

AVIDEDTR said:


> Dont you just hate that when **** goes perfect until you go to put the door card back on ....great work Mang


Thanks!


----------



## Mirage_Man

katodevin said:


> dang, want to use those as a mold to make a set of them for me? I'll pay you some $$ and make it worth your while. PM if you're interested.


Sorry bud, I'm just struggling to get the system done. I can feel my wife getting anxious as each weekend comes and goes and I'm still working on the car. :laugh:


----------



## tonesmith

Mirage_Man said:


> Sorry bud, I'm just struggling to get the system done. I can feel my wife getting anxious as each weekend comes and goes and I'm still working on the car. :laugh:


Your wife must be extremely thoughtful giving you all that free time to do your car.

I spent 3 days trying to set up an infinite baffle setup in my Accord and my wife let me know how she felt every night I came in to shower! Women, I swear if your not spending time with them and its not because of work you might as well be cheating on them they get so hot and bothered. I guess that just goes for women who are married, all the girlfriends have eternal patience, but get that ring on and the storyline changes fast!

About the panels, I mean the plastic thing that attaches via clips to the metal door. The door cover thing.


----------



## SiR_Dave

*Good stuff!!*

This build is unbelieveable!!!:stunned::bowdown: I'm checking it every day to watch your build progress!!epper:


----------



## Mirage_Man

Well not much to report today. I pulled the door trim panel back off the driver side door, removed the FG panels from both and started working on the MLV. After about 1/2 hr. with the MLV I made the decision to skip it on the doors. By the time I cut all the holes to get the door trim to go back on it would look like Swiss cheese. Not much point in it then as far as I am concerned. Sucks really cause I know it would have made a considerable difference.

So I started applying CLD tiles to the the inner door skins and the FG panels. Here's a shot of the passenger side door.


----------



## Rudeboy

Mirage_Man said:


> Well not much to report today. I pulled the door trim panel back off the driver side door, removed the FG panels from both and started working on the MLV. After about 1/2 hr. with the MLV I made the decision to skip it on the doors. By the time I cut all the holes to get the door trim to go back on it would look like Swiss cheese. Not much point in it then as far as I am concerned. Sucks really cause I know it would have made a considerable difference.
> 
> So I started applying CLD tiles to the the inner door skins and the FG panels. Here's a shot of the passenger side door.


That usually means you're missing what's blocking the trim panel and cutting the wrong areas. It's absolutely worth the effort to get MLV in doors - much more worthwhile than the FG panels, IMO, so I'd compared the relative effort required. In the worst case, hang the barrier layers on the outer skin, but that shouldn't be required. 

I'd expect the first door on the easiest car in the world to take a full hour. I've had it take 2 on trickier doors. They get easier after the first. Not getting barrier into the doors is like building a barn with 2 walls.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Rudeboy said:


> That usually means you're missing what's blocking the trim panel and cutting the wrong areas. It's absolutely worth the effort to get MLV in doors - much more worthwhile than the FG panels, IMO, so I'd compared the relative effort required. In the worst case, hang the barrier layers on the outer skin, but that shouldn't be required.
> 
> I'd expect the first door on the easiest car in the world to take a full hour. I've had it take 2 on trickier doors. They get easier after the first. Not getting barrier into the doors is like building a barn with 2 walls.


I knew you would chime in when I posted that I was going to skip it. 

Honestly though, I would have to cut a hole in the MLV the same size as the pocket I molded in the the FG panel as the depth just allows the door panel to fit back on. Then the trim panel has a lip thhat goes all the way around the edge in the same plane as the clips. The top of the panels have stand offs that require more cutting. By the time it'll go on it will just be adding weight IMO. There's not as much room back there as we thought. 

BTW as far as the FG panels and their merits vs the MLV. I'm more concerned with the sound system than I am with blocking road noise at this point.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Aw hell Don, you got me thinking about giving it another try. :undecided: Will it make a difference with a bunch of holes in it if that's what it takes to get the panel back on?


----------



## Rudeboy

Mirage_Man said:


> Aw hell Don, you got me thinking about giving it another try. :undecided: Will it make a difference with a bunch of holes in it if that's what it takes to get the panel back on?


You really don't have to worry at all about holes that are filled with something else that's heavy. I'd put the fiberglass access holes covers in that category. You're trying to block what isn't already blocked. 

I absolutely think it's worth the effort. You not only get the traffic noise you'd expect have entering through the outer skin, you also get a surprising amount of tire noise coming through the front and rear edges. Acoustically reinforcing the mounting plane is never a bad idea when you have door mounted speakers.

Adding the MLV and CCF to decouple the MLV from the inner skin and trim panel does another nice thing. When everything is put back together, the slight compression you should get in the CCF tightens everything up. Should eliminate most or all rattles and buzzes.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Dammit! I'm itching to work on the car and it's raining this AM.


----------



## t3sn4f2

The mlv also help make the face of the door more of a baffle that keeps the sound from the rear of the driver out of the listening space.


----------



## Babs

+1 I can vouch for the MLV and CCF. In my case on an 8th civic sedan, the door-card is tight with no rattles whatsoever. Trick is patience and trimming where you need to get the door card back on. It's a bit of artistics. The 2nd door I did, I began the cut on the door-card itself rather than on the door, seemed to help a great deal to identify the area's I'd have to cut holes, so my driver door ended up much better than passenger door I think as far as MLV was concerned.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Alright guys you've convinced me to give it another go. Thing is I'm gonna need more MLV. I don't even have enough to do the trunk as it is.


----------



## Mirage_Man

After 2 hours this AM I am to this point on the passenger door MLV. I have quite a bit more work to do. I must have a more complicated than most door Don,  cause 1-2 hrs. ain't gonna be how long it takes to get it to fit .


----------



## Rudeboy

Mirage_Man said:


> After 2 hours this AM I am to this point on the passenger door MLV. I have quite a bit more work to do. I must have a more complicated than most door Don,  cause 1-2 hrs. ain't gonna be how long it takes to get it to fit .


Looks good. I said I thought it would take ME 1-2 hours. I'd expect it to take you a week to 10 days


----------



## Mirage_Man

Rudeboy said:


> Looks good. I said I thought it would take ME 1-2 hours. I'd expect it to take you a week to 10 days


 Touché .


----------



## Mirage_Man

Almost done with the passenger door now. I mounted the FG panels using butyl rope around the edges and screwed down with flat profile sheet metal screws. 



















Then I finished up the MLV fitting for the wire harnesses and such. As it is there's definitely no room to put a layer of CCF on both sides of the MLV. It's tight with just the MLV. 

Of course I forgot to use this as a template for the driver side so I'm gonna have to start from scratch on that one too. The good thing is though that I've learned enough doing this side that it should go much quicker now.


----------



## Rudeboy

You can tell how useful that was just by looking. Knew you could do it


----------



## t3sn4f2

Excellent work once again!


----------



## Babs

Nice job. That one large hole in the MLV I guess you had your reasons but with that FG sealing I'd say you've got to have a pretty quiet door now.

I would advise if possible consider that layer of ccf between doorskin and mlv. But if it just can't fit, so be it.

Those rings kill me! 

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## Mirage_Man

Babs said:


> Nice job. That one large hole in the MLV I guess you had your reasons but with that FG sealing I'd say you've got to have a pretty quiet door now.
> 
> I would advise if possible consider that layer of ccf between doorskin and mlv. But if it just can't fit, so be it.
> 
> Those rings kill me!
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


Yeah, the hole had to be there to some extent to allow the panel to fit. I do plan to try and do a form fitting patch of sorts if I can and still get the panel on.

I talked with Don a few hours ago and since I have some 3M Thinsulate insulation I'm going to use it in place of the CCF. Maybe Don will chime in and explain the idea behind using it.

I like the rings too .


----------



## DAT

Excellent WORK, love the descriptions and PICS


Hmm my doors are pretty dang quiet, not sure if I really need some MLV and CCF I just finished redoing the floor with MLV and CCF since I'll be doing custom kicks this time around.


----------



## Mirage_Man

UUUUUGH! Why did I try to put CCF between the MLV and inner skin and between the MLV and door panel? Of course it doesn't fit. After F'ing with it this AM and trimming here and there I almost have the panel completely on. There's just one clip that is not holding. So I will have to do some more trimming tomorrow until it fits. Sucks only being able to work on this in short blocks of time.

BTW I decided against the Thinsulate as it does not compress as much as the CCF and I need every last bit of room I can get here.


----------



## ErinH

I always admire people who have patience. It must be nice. 


Nice build log!


----------



## t3sn4f2

I imagine that tight press fit finish is going to help big time with panel resonance noises. It might not keep it from resonating but it should keep any obvious plastic noise down a good bit. Something like when you put you finger on a spot thats making noise and it goes away. 

And also any tapping noise between the door panel and the MLV.

You also might want to spring for a new batch of door panel clips once you are completely done and ready to put the panel back on for the last time. Those things can were down from use.


----------



## tonesmith

You get an A+ for effort and execution. I feel your frustration, I hope its worth it, I hate the Accord doors.


----------



## Mirage_Man

bikinpunk said:


> I always admire people who have patience. It must be nice.
> 
> 
> Nice build log!


Thanks Man. I must admit my patience is wearing a bit thin rigt about now. I want these damn doors done!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Thanks for the kudos and encouragement everyone. I too hope it will be worth the time, effort and money!


----------



## Mirage_Man

So, normally I never work on my car at night after work. I just don't have the time. However, today I spent all day thinking about why in the hell the door trim wouldn't snap on all the way. I studied the pictures I posted earlier to see if I could figure it out. They really didn't show me anything useful. I knew though, that wherever there was pressure if I removed the trim after it had been on all day I would be able to see the impression in the CCF that was between the trim and MLV. So that's what I did. 

I pulled the panel off tonight, in the dark, and found where the issue was. There was a small area right on the edge of the FG panel closest to the back of the door that was hitting. Fortunately the plastic piece was not anything that couldn't be removed with my trusty Dremel . Needless to say it fits quite nicely now. Sorry I didn't take any pics tonight of the offending piece. I will take some when I pull it off again to install the driver.

I can say this for sure, the door now closes with a very satisfying,"thud".


----------



## stefanhinote

Buddy, I just read through your entire build and truly admire your abilities and simple patience to do things right the first time.

Definitely a special build right here. 

Tuned in to see how you mount all the amps.


----------



## Rudeboy

Mirage_Man said:


> So, normally I never work on my car at night after work. I just don't have the time. However, today I spent all day thinking about why in the hell the door trim wouldn't snap on all the way. I studied the pictures I posted earlier to see if I could figure it out. They really didn't show me anything useful. I knew though, that wherever there was pressure if I removed the trim after it had been on all day I would be able to see the impression in the CCF that was between the trim and MLV. So that's what I did.
> 
> I pulled the panel off tonight, in the dark, and found where the issue was. There was a small area right on the edge of the FG panel closest to the back of the door that was hitting. Fortunately the plastic piece was not anything that couldn't be removed with my trusty Dremel . Needless to say it fits quite nicely now. Sorry I didn't take any pics tonight of the offending piece. I will take some when I pull it off again to install the driver.
> 
> I can say this for sure, the door now closes with a very satisfying,"thud" now.


I've done that many times. Good diagnostic trick. Should always work if the CCF is being compressed. Sometimes you can find the spot that's binding by sliding a strip of paper in, pushing on the trim panel and trying to figure out where it's hanging up.


----------



## Mirage_Man

As promised here are some pics of the piece I removed in order to get the panel on. Also a shot of the final MLV shape hanging on the door.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Another day and finally finished up the front part of the car. Well, except for the A-pillars which will be housing the tweets.

First was to finish up the doors. I managed to get the drivers door done in just a couple hours. What I learned on the passenger door really helped. In addition to the CCF on both side of most of the MLV I also packed most of the big open pockets in the door panel with Thinsulate. 














































I had to re-position one of the wires coming through the smaller FG panel. Rather than busting out the FG I just sealed the first hole with CLD. All holes where wires or cables passed through were filled with butyl rope.


----------



## Mirage_Man

After I was sure the panels fit on correctly I terminated the speaker wires and mounted the drivers. Thin strands of butyl rope were used between both the ring/door and ring/driver. 










The red stuff on the screw is "Vibratite". It's similar to Loctite. All hardware is stainless steel. Nylon locking nuts were used to hole the rings to the door.














































Once the driver was mounted I put a layer of 1/4" thick weather stripping over the driver flange to create a seal with the door trim panel. It says,"sponge" but it's really a closed cell foam so no worries about moisture retention.




























YAY! Everything buttoned up.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Well I just put 2 butts on the smoker. I'll be tending the smoker in between working on the car.


----------



## Matt R

I like big buts and I can not lie!!!! Its a little early for that kind of but tough. ;~)

Car looks good man, keep it up!!!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Matt R said:


> I like big buts and I can not lie!!!! Its a little early for that kind of but tough. ;~)
> 
> Car looks good man, keep it up!!!


Thanks man!

Those butts will be ready somewhere 'round 9 o'clock tonight (can you say pulled pork sammies for lunch this week :happy. I have a rack of St. Louis spares going on around noon that will be for dinner tonight .


----------



## Baada

Dude, you need to change your user name to "Energizer Bunny."

Looking good....but you already knew that.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Baada said:


> Dude, you need to change your user name to "Energizer Bunny.".


I wish! I just want the car done so I can enjoy it.

Looks like SWMBO has decided we need to spend some "quality time" so no work on the car today.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Spent a little time this AM mocking up placement of the subs and amps.

First I filled a plastic bag with roughly 1.5 cu/ft. of styro pellets. I figure go a little big and allow for driver displacement and enclosure wall thickness. Then I placed the bag in the location I want the subs to make sure I'll have enough volume. Looks like it won't be an issue.























































Once that was done I moved on to positioning the subs and amp placement. I want to try to keep my spare so I think what I've come up with should work out well and give plenty of room underneath the false floor to run all the cabling etc.

What do you guys think?


----------



## pankrok

lovely!!!


----------



## Babs

I'm wiping the tears! Lookin' good. The doors alone.. one of the better door threads in a while. Can't wait to get inspired by the amp rack. Do I detect false floor fun? 

Gotta break out my smoker I think this weekend.


----------



## tonesmith

My brother had a 2007 Acura TL.

In it he had a custom fiberglass enclosure in to the rear on the passenger side exactly where you mocked up your JL. It was an alpine type r, 12", powered off a PDX amp can't remember which one. An audiocontrol processor fed the amp
Voltage. It really was a poor sounding disappointing system (on the low end that is) the install quality was top notch, a very good local place, it just hardly gave any output. I still don't know what to attribute the poor performance to other than the speakers location.


----------



## Mirage_Man

tonesmith said:


> My brother had a 2007 Acura TL.
> 
> In it he had a custom fiberglass enclosure in to the rear on the passenger side exactly where you mocked up your JL. It was an alpine type r, 12", powered off a PDX amp can't remember which one. An audiocontrol processor fed the amp
> Voltage. It really was a poor sounding disappointing system (on the low end that is) the install quality was top notch, a very good local place, it just hardly gave any output. I still don't know what to attribute the poor performance to other than the speakers location.


Hmmmm, I hope that's not what I can expect. :worried:


----------



## tonesmith

Man I hope not. Have you or anyone reading this thread, ever heard some good output by placing subwoofers in this area? 

Personally I have not. Maybe make a test box with some concrete tubes and test it out? I only say because the trunks may be similar.

Btw, do you have a new link to the old sonotube you made for your house?


----------



## Mirage_Man

tonesmith said:


> Man I hope not. Have you or anyone reading this thread, ever heard some good output by placing subwoofers in this area?
> 
> Personally I have not. Maybe make a test box with some concrete tubes and test it out? I only say because the trunks may be similar.
> 
> Btw, do you have a new link to the old sonotube you made for your house?


I have info about the build on my ancient HT site.
BPS Designs - Silo II


----------



## t3sn4f2

tonesmith said:


> Man I hope not. Have you or anyone reading this thread, ever heard some good output by placing subwoofers in this area?
> 
> Personally I have not. Maybe make a test box with some concrete tubes and test it out? I only say because the trunks may be similar.
> 
> Btw, do you have a new link to the old sonotube you made for your house?


Butted up into the corners of the trunk with a baffle that fills in the surrounding area seems as good a place as any, at least.


----------



## ecbmxer

I like the planned trunk layout! Seems like you have tons of room if you can manage to keep the spare and mount the amps like that. In retrospect I wish I would have done the fiberglass panels for my doors vs the plexi sheeting I used (not that it was bad, but damn your panels look clean).


----------



## scooter99

Mirage_Man said:


> Hmmmm, I hope that's not what I can expect. :worried:





tonesmith said:


> Man I hope not. Have you or anyone reading this thread, ever heard some good output by placing subwoofers in this area?
> 
> Personally I have not. Maybe make a test box with some concrete tubes and test it out? I only say because the trunks may be similar.
> 
> Btw, do you have a new link to the old sonotube you made for your house?


I did this with a couple of shallow mount RF P3's in my Civic and it kicked pretty good! I did 10's and 12's and both were sounding pretty great. I don't think you'll have an issue as long as you're enclosures are to spec. 










I do have to say Mirage, I pitty you if those bags break! WOW the clean up would be insane! But I like the idea, cause I'm sure the packing peanuts are a good way to go, but leaves a lot of space between. Don't think it matters but whatever. 

I dig this build, you're doing a great job! Thanks for bringing it to us!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Sorry for no updates this week. I've been spending my limited time in the AMs staring into my trunk and playing around with various pieces of MDF. I'm trying to figure out how I'm gonna get everything in there and still have access to the spare, the ability to use the pass through with the back seat down and some trunk space to use. Lemme tell ya it's a challenge fo sho.

Hopefully I'll make some headway today and have some pics to post tonight. Wish me luck.


----------



## Mirage_Man

So today my buddy came over and with his mig welder for me to borrow and showed me how to use it. I spent the rest of the day designing the amp rack and welding it up. I am almost done with it but still need to figure out how to attach it to the car. The idea is to hinge it at the attachment point so it can be lifted up in the event I need to get to the spare tire. So I will likely be welding some more tubing to the top end to make it a bit longer.

Here are some random pics I took today.


----------



## boogeyman

This is going to be a really nice build.
What type of fence setup do you have there?


----------



## Mirage_Man

boogeyman said:


> This is going to be a really nice build.
> What type of fence setup do you have there?


On my tablesaw? It's a commercial Jet Xacta.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Today's update:

With the help of my buddy we more or less finished up the amp rack. The rack was extended and hinges were fabricated out of angle iron and 5/16" bolts with delrin bushings. The angle iron was welded into the car. As of right now I'm going to try to mount the H701 to the rack as well. That should make it easier to wire most things out of the car. We'll see how it ends up.

Next up is the subwoofer enclosures.

That's my buddy doing the cutting and welding in the photos. I decided to leave the welding today up to him since he had more experience than I do.


----------



## Mirage_Man




----------



## Matt R

Sweet man. A gas shock or two in the right place might be a great addition to the rack.


----------



## tonesmith

SICK. +1 for the shock.


----------



## Stoph

Looks great! +2 for the shock, help keep that thing in the air when you need your spare.


----------



## ecbmxer

That looks fantastic! I like all the attention to detail you've been putting into this, especially the deadener. Had I known what I know now, I would have put more effort into deadening my car from the start like you did. When the false floor buts up against the perimeter of the trunk, will it still be able to open? Or will the sides be fixed and just the central part of the floor with the amps on it lift up?


----------



## Mirage_Man

Yeah, my buddy wants me to do a motorized actuator for it. I just don't know if I want to go through all that trouble. I hope I never have to get under it. I mean if I do that means I got a flat!

Gas shocks or some sort of prop rod seems almost a necessity to hold it up in the event I do need to get under there. Once I finalize amp placement and such I'll be looking into how that will be implemented.



ecbmxer said:


> That looks fantastic! I like all the attention to detail you've been putting into this, especially the deadener. Had I known what I know now, I would have put more effort into deadening my car from the start like you did. When the false floor buts up against the perimeter of the trunk, will it still be able to open? Or will the sides be fixed and just the central part of the floor with the amps on it lift up?


I'm not totally sure how it's gonna end up until I get the sub enclosures built but I know that the floor will have to have a piece (or more) that will sit over the amp rack that is removable. That section will be removed to be able to lift the amp rack. Now, the removable section above the amp rack will have shaped removable panels with ventilation for the amps. 

Did that make sense??


----------



## ecbmxer

Yea, I was envisioning it as all one piece. What you said makes more sense (have a beauty panel that pops out, then the amp rack lifts up)


----------



## Mirage_Man

Started working on the driver side sub enclosure today. I cut away the bottom of the trunk liner to make room for the base of the enclosure. Not sure If I'll cut it to follow the contour of the trunk floor yet.


----------



## Oblivi0us

Great build! Quick question. What is that blue thing you used to get the contours of the trunk? Thanks


----------



## Mirage_Man

It's a flexible curve like this one. 

Amazon.com: MLCS 9327 Woodworking 36-Inch Flexible Curve Ruler: Home Improvement


----------



## Notloudenuf

Mirage_Man said:


> It's a flexible curve like this one.
> 
> Amazon.com: MLCS 9327 Woodworking 36-Inch Flexible Curve Ruler: Home Improvement


That is a great tool and this is a great build. Thanks for putting it all up here.


----------



## JayinMI

The also carry something like that at Joann Fabrics.

Jay


----------



## scooter99

Sweet, thanks for the info Jay.


----------



## Mirage_Man

A little more work on the sub enclosure bases. Glued in a block to make the bottom of the enclosure level. Cut the bottom piece to follow the trunk "rails" and sit flush.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Yesterday I stopped by my local FG supply house to pick up some more resin and supplies. I ended up getting some polyester putty, chopped glass and cab-o-sil too. 

I wanted to make the two pieces of the sub base one so I mixed up some of the putty, cab-o-sil, chopped glass and a little resin to glue them together. Before that however I ran the mating edges of the two pieces into the table saw blade along their length creating notches for the putty to get squeezed into. Then hit the surface with 36 grit roloc to rough it up. To keep the edges where I wanted them I ran a piece of tape along the back side. I made sure there was a gap to allow the two pieces to make the needed angle. Once positioned I smeared the area with the putty concoction making sure to get it into the notches.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Not much to report today. Only had about 1/2 hour this AM. I sanded the putty smooth and put a layer of 3/4 glass on the bottom and 3 layers on the top of the joints.


----------



## DAT

Keep up the good work.


----------



## kvndoom

...and the hits keep coming! 

I must have missed it somewhere... what did you do to your rear deck? Did you seal the holes, leave them open, or use rear fill?


----------



## Mirage_Man

kvndoom said:


> ...and the hits keep coming!
> 
> I must have missed it somewhere... what did you do to your rear deck? Did you seal the holes, leave them open, or use rear fill?


I removed the factory speakers and at this time have no plans for rear fill. I did in the beginning but have since decided against it. The holes I plan to leave open unless too much road noise comes in through them.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Not much work this weekend. Hung out with the family yesterday and only got a couple hours today. What I was able to do was re-route the cables on both driver and passenger side that were in the way of attaching the back of the subwoofer boxes. It was a real pain in the neck to do the driver's side cabling. I made sure I strategically placed plenty of foam weather stripping to prevent the cables from rattling or buzzing.

Here are some before and after pics.

Driver's side before:









And after:


















Passenger side before:









And after:
Drilled a hole up near the top to router the cable.


----------



## Mirage_Man

A few more mins this AM and still working on the MDF portion of the driver side sub box. I am not sure how in the hell I'm gonna deal with the damn trunk arms. I know one thing that the boxes are gonna have to have a notch for them to clear it. Just how to implement it and not loose a tom of air volume is the question. I also need to think ahead as to how the trim panel/grill is gonna be done. This is all new to me so I feel like I'm stumbling around in the dark. If anyone has some ideas and or experience please feel free to share.


----------



## Babs

One thing you could do is use dowels to float a contour piece below that trunk arm giving your fleece something to attach to in that area to shape the enclosure.

My first thought (and I'm definitely no fiberglass person.. Never done any FG work) was why you're using MDF for the backing instead of taping it off and glassing in the shape of the back of the enclosure, so to fit perfectly in the contours of the location.. which is the conventional method I see in here most often.

Very cool work regardless.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Babs said:


> My first thought (and I'm definitely no fiberglass person.. Never done any FG work) was why you're using MDF for the backing instead of taping it off and glassing in the shape of the back of the enclosure, so to fit perfectly in the contours of the location.. which is the conventional method I see in here most often.
> 
> Very cool work regardless.


Short answer? 

Resin is $40 a gallon!


----------



## ecbmxer

I would definitely fiberglass that back portion so it conforms to the shape of the trunk better than the wood. It'll fit in there tighter and give you some extra airspace. For the trunk arms, I would climb in there with the trunk shut (from the car side) and try to put a piece of flexible plastic or wood along the trunk arm, held in place with dowels, so that it gives a nice passage for the arm to travel. 

Or else try to contour the sub box to clear the arm all together. Maybe rather than having that vertical piece of MDF at the front of the box, just let the box transition into the trunk wall (if that makes sense).


----------



## DAT

Mirage_Man said:


> Short answer?
> 
> Resin is $40 a gallon!




I'd go ahead and cough up the extra cash for the $40 resin, you have done a excellent job why half ass it now?

PLUS fiberglass is stronger in curves and bends then flat...

just do it... you'll be happier in the long run.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Guys, I understand what you're saying but.... the back area is flat and I have cut the mdf to that flat shape. That was the whole reason to move the cabling, to allow the mdf to sit flat against the back wall. The added benefit is that I'll save money on resin.


----------



## Mirage_Man

OK not much but a little time on turkey day to work on the car. Worked on taping the driver side cavity to get ready for fiberglassing. I am not yet done as you can see in the pictures but thought you might like to see the progress. 

Yes, this is me in my 6'5" 300lb. glory sitting in the trunk. I bet you never thought you'd see a sight like that did you? 




























I am using poster board to help form some of the contours of the enclosure. Again I am not yet done here. I had to stop in the middle to have Thanksgiving dinner.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Almost done prepping the driver's side. 

BTW I think I am going to skip using the MDF on the back wall go ahead and glass it instead.


----------



## Coppertone

Really nice work so far, keep your chin up good sounds are coming soon.


----------



## evo9

Mirage_Man said:


> Short answer?
> 
> Resin is $40 a gallon!




Do I need to tell you to drive over to SR84 & visit McDonalds Hardware? Yellow building on the north side just before the rail tracks! $18.00 a gl for the marine grade resin. 






.


----------



## Mirage_Man

evo9 said:


> Do I need to tell you to drive over to SR84 & visit McDonalds Hardware? Yellow building on the north side just before the rail tracks! $18.00 a gl for the marine grade resin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yeah, FC has boat yard resin cheap too. I just prefer working with lay-up resin.


----------



## greywarden

Lookin good. How are you a FL resident, and do not have a sandbox for a car, haha. I'm from the panhandle and there is literally no way to keep sand out of the car. You must vacuum it all the time.


----------



## v7guy

It's a hell of a build you got going on... looking forward to the updates


----------



## Mirage_Man

Got the passenger side pretty much taped up and ready to go today. Getting close to laying some glass now!


----------



## Mirage_Man

greywarden said:


> Lookin good. How are you a FL resident, and do not have a sandbox for a car, haha. I'm from the panhandle and there is literally no way to keep sand out of the car. You must vacuum it all the time.


We use the wife's ride to go to the beach .


----------



## AVIDEDTR

great work....make sure you cover everything....last thing you want it a resin mishap.


----------



## Mirage_Man

AVIDEDTR said:


> great work....make sure you cover everything....last thing you want it a resin mishap.


Oh yeah, I got some 2 mil plastic going down all over :thumbsup:.


----------



## toxtreme

Love your project! 

You sir are a big inspiration for me. To see you build give myself ideas and a confidence that someday I also can build something like this 

It's also alot of fun to see you build in a car that we don't have here in Sweden.. or we have the Accord but it doesn't look like the ones you have in America 

Good luck!


----------



## Mirage_Man

toxtreme said:


> Love your project!
> 
> You sir are a big inspiration for me. To see you build give myself ideas and a confidence that someday I also can build something like this
> 
> It's also alot of fun to see you build in a car that we don't have here in Sweden.. or we have the Accord but it doesn't look like the ones you have in America
> 
> Good luck!


Glad I can be of some inspiration. There are many that have and continue to inspire me around here as well.





Well I'm ready to apply some sort of mold release now and of course it's Sunday so my FG house is not open. What's a guy to do? Do I call it a day and wait until I can get some mold release stuff from them on Monday or use something I have around the house?









BTW I've used 5 rolls of 2" x 45 yard tape to this point!


----------



## boogeyman

You can use Pam non stick spray. You can use vaseline also I have used both. Both work well. Vaseline is a lil bit messy but will work. So get to work big guy.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Ran to Lowes and the grocery store to pick up a few things. I had the roller already from laying down CLD and the wife does the couponing thing so we have tons of foil in the pantry .










A little while later I had this .


----------



## boogeyman

Glad to see this moving forward. How many layers of glass do you plan to lay down?


----------



## Mirage_Man

boogeyman said:


> Glad to see this moving forward. How many layers of glass do you plan to lay down?


Not sure at this point. I have 5 yards of 3/4oz. mat to use up. 



I managed to get the passenger side foiled before it started getting dark and it was time to call it a day.


----------



## Mopar244DIY

You should try disconnecting that battery cable. Wouldn't want you to have a dead batt.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Mopar244DIY said:


> You should try disconnecting that battery cable. Wouldn't want you to have a dead batt.


Good catch! I usually do disconnect it when I have the trunk or doors open for long periods.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Mothers Waxing polish works best between the foil and mat....if you can't get the molds out, try blowing compressed air between the layers.

Also IMHO applying short strand re-enforced filler with a brush will help prevent the mold from warping.

How long do you plan to leave the molds in the car?


----------



## Mirage_Man

AVIDEDTR said:


> Mothers Waxing polish works best between the foil and mat....if you can't get the molds out, try blowing compressed air between the layers.
> 
> Also IMHO applying short strand re-enforced filler with a brush will help prevent the mold from warping.
> 
> How long do you plan to leave the molds in the car?


I plan to get some mold release wax tomorrow.

Care to expand on what you mean about this:



AVIDEDTR said:


> Also IMHO applying short strand re-enforced filler with a brush will help prevent the mold from warping.


I'll leave the molds in as long as necessary, whatever that is?


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Mirage_Man said:


> I plan to get some mold release wax tomorrow.
> 
> Care to expand on what you mean about this:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll leave the molds in as long as necessary, whatever that is?


Evercoat

Mix and apply it to the molds with a brush after about 4-8 hours. let them cure for 24hrs and start yanking them from the molds


----------



## Mirage_Man

AVIDEDTR said:


> Evercoat
> 
> Mix and apply it to the molds with a brush after about 4-8 hours. let them cure for 24hrs and start yanking them from the molds


Basically like duraglass yes? Or is it more viscous? 

How does this prevent warping that the FG itself wouldn't do?


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Yes indeed it is!!!! It's rock solid after 2hours, well how i mix it


----------



## AVIDEDTR

On smaller area's I add resin and durglass. IMHO sub boxes require straight up filler. Once the mold is complete I then add body filler, short strand filler, raw hair and resine to seal all the potential air leaks inside the box. Takes about 2-6 hours to do this.


----------



## Mirage_Man

AVIDEDTR said:


> On smaller area's I add resin and durglass. IMHO sub boxes require straight up filler. Once the mold is complete I then add body filler, short strand filler, raw hair and resine to seal all the potential air leaks inside the box. Takes about 2-6 hours to do this.


Sounds like a milkshake?


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Yep another way of describing it. I've seen others even put concrete in the mix too 

what would you call that? Guinness?


----------



## Mirage_Man

AVIDEDTR said:


> Yep another way of describing it. I've seen others even put concrete in the mix too
> 
> what would you call that? Guinness?


LOL, no just when you described what you were talking about I thought it was what the guys over at fiberglassforums call a "milkshake". I don't think it's so much to prevent warping as it is to seal the enclosure like you said.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Check out some of Bing's install's - he does the same thing.


----------



## evo9

Mirage_Man said:


> Not sure at this point. I have 5 yards of 3/4oz. mat to use up.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to get the passenger side foiled before it started getting dark and it was time to call it a day.





*What are your plans in dealing with the xtra weight? *





.


----------



## Mirage_Man

evo9 said:


> *What are your plans in dealing with the xtra weight? *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Not really sure but I spoke with BC Racing today about their coilovers. I just don't know if there's a cheaper way to go?


----------



## evo9

Maybe a thicker sway bar might do the trick! There was a time when i had over 280lbs in the back of my 2000 accord. It did dip a little in the rear, with the H&R springs. It was my plan to get thicker sway bars but, ended up shedding weight with a different install. I do know the stock springs saggs alot. So a spring change could be all you need. 





.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Small bit of progress to report. I managed to start laying some glass finally! 

Last night I waxed the foil with some TR-104 mold release wax. This AM I roughed up the edges of the MDF base with a 36 grit Roloc disc to promote better adhesion of the glass. Then screwed it down in place and started glassing. I got about 3 layers of 3/4oz. mat down then another layer or so of 1.5oz.


----------



## Babs

Mirage_Man said:


> Short answer?
> 
> Resin is $40 a gallon!


I can't blame you a bit. MDF gets it done, I imagine especially if it's combined like that with glass. The build is looking killer!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Babs said:


> I can't blame you a bit. MDF gets it done, I imagine especially if it's combined like that with glass. The build is looking killer!


LOL, I guess you didn't notice I decided to glass the whole thing sans the base?


----------



## Matt R

Looks nice and clean man, good job!


----------



## Slick98ta

Mirage_Man said:


> Not really sure but I spoke with BC Racing today about their coilovers. I just don't know if there's a cheaper way to go?


Great progress so far! I've been following this ever since I seen you post it on the DA forums. As far as coil-overs go, BC Racing's set is nice! I have them and love em. I'd check the DA forum, there's a sponsor over there that can usually get a good deal for you. At least this is what I did a few years ago and the coil-overs are still going strong.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Matt R said:


> Looks nice and clean man, good job!


Thanks bud! I can't tell you how much your guidance has helped me.



Slick98ta said:


> Great progress so far! I've been following this ever since I seen you post it on the DA forums. As far as coil-overs go, BC Racing's set is nice! I have them and love em. I'd check the DA forum, there's a sponsor over there that can usually get a good deal for you. At least this is what I did a few years ago and the coil-overs are still going strong.


Yeah, I think the guy's username is throwdown or something like that right? He's the one that suggested BC. I just can't afford a grand on a set of coilovers right now.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Well this AM I did a little sanding on the glass I put down yesterday since I wasn't able to do another layup in the 18hr. window. Boy what a freak'in mess! Thank god for shop vacs. Once I knocked down the rough spots and smoothed everything out I built up some thin areas with some more 3/4oz and 1.5oz. mat. I would have put a few layers on the whole thing but I just didn't have time. Pics below don't show the layup I did today.

Oh, and I picked up a 1000W halogen light set up so I can maybe do some work at night. 





































I have 3 piles of 1.5oz. mat in S,M and L pieces. One pile of 3/4oz. mat too.


----------



## Rudeboy

How's the new resin working out? Looks more transparent than the B-440?


----------



## Mirage_Man

Rudeboy said:


> How's the new resin working out? Looks more transparent than the B-440?


I've been using some stuff from my local fiberglass supply house "Fiberglass Coatings Inc." which is really nice stuff. It's their red label GP polyester resin. It wets out really nice and gives you a decent working time if you don't mix it too hot. Of course the cooler weather we've had down here the last few days helps. I think my technique is getting better too .


----------



## scooter99

Looks like good technique to me! But I'm not a fiberglass expert, barely even a novice. Probably not even that! Whatever, nice job! Very entertaining build, I enjoy everything you're doing. I envy the time you have too! Keep it up!


----------



## Mirage_Man

scooter99 said:


> I envy the time you have too! Keep it up!


Funny thing is I don't have that much time. Like an hour or so in the mornings and maybe a few more on the weekends. That's one of the reasons this is taking so long. It's hard to put together more than a couple hours at a time.


----------



## YouSirName

I just saw this thread and its a bit ironic because I'm doing the same exact thing. Down the part where you are using MDF for the bottom of the enclosure. I'm also using MDF as the front part of the enclosure as my speaker baffle. My particular install is for an 07 Civic though.

I know its a little late now but one thing I learned from doing this is that is easier if you take the trunk lining (the part that you are making a mold of) off of the car and work on making a mold out of. Easier in the sense that you don't have to be hunched over to attach the fiberglass pieces on to it and you wouldn't have to tape off the entire trunk since you would not be working in the car. After you are done making the mold out of it you can just stick back in the car. Either way, looks good. Great job.


----------



## Mirage_Man

YouSirName said:


> I just saw this thread and its a bit ironic because I'm doing the same exact thing. Down the part where you are using MDF for the bottom of the enclosure. I'm also using MDF as the front part of the enclosure as my speaker baffle. My particular install is for an 07 Civic though.
> 
> I know its a little late now but one thing I learned from doing this is that is easier if you take the trunk lining (the part that you are making a mold of) off of the car and work on making a mold out of. Easier in the sense that you don't have to be hunched over to attach the fiberglass pieces on to it and you wouldn't have to tape off the entire trunk since you would not be working in the car. After you are done making the mold out of it you can just stick back in the car. Either way, looks good. Great job.


Thanks.

A couple things about using the trunk liner out of the car is it can warp and you don't use all the available space behind the trunk liner.


----------



## YouSirName

Never thought about that, I had good results with mine, probably just dumb luck in my part. Seems like you did your homework before starting the project (always a good thing). I just recently fit mine into my trunk to make sure it fit like I wanted and so far so good. Had to cut the mold and MDF a little bit to get the clearances I wanted but other then that its good.

By the way (don't know if you gotten this far yet) but since you are going to be attaching MDF to the fiberglass, how or going to make sure that you keep an airtight seal? I know you could probably use some time of silicone but I'm thinking of adding small strips of fiberglass perpendicular to where the MDF and fiberglass mold meet and then sand it down or add some bondo to make it look nice. Just a thought. Will be keeping an eye on your progress.


----------



## Mirage_Man

YouSirName said:


> Never thought about that, I had good results with mine, probably just dumb luck in my part. Seems like you did your homework before starting the project (always a good thing). I just recently fit mine into my trunk to make sure it fit like I wanted and so far so good. Had to cut the mold and MDF a little bit to get the clearances I wanted but other then that its good.
> 
> By the way (don't know if you gotten this far yet) but since you are going to be attaching MDF to the fiberglass, how or going to make sure that you keep an airtight seal? I know you could probably use some time of silicone but I'm thinking of adding small strips of fiberglass perpendicular to where the MDF and fiberglass mold meet and then sand it down or add some bondo to make it look nice. Just a thought. Will be keeping an eye on your progress.


At this point the plan is to use a ring for the driver not a full mdf baffle. The front of the enclosure will be mostly glass.

In any event a concoction of duraglas and resin should work very well to join mdf to glass. Just make sure you rough the mdf real well and wet it with resin so that it bites good. You should also do like you said and glass over the seam to add more strength.


----------



## ecbmxer

Thats a good way to do it. Once the back panel is done and you mock up the ring, it's easier than I thought it would be. Just time consuming to wait for stuff to dry. I did my first glass enclosure very similarly and it turned out great. Just keep adding layers until its rigid enough to stand on, haha. Then fill it with a ton of duraglass/resin and slosh it around to get in all the corners.


----------



## Misanthropic

Inspiring. Meticulous. Amazing. Truly one of the most thorough builds I have seen in a long time. Just beautiful man. Sub'd and waiting in anticipation for more updates. Thanks for sharing this with us.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Misanthropic said:


> Inspiring. Meticulous. Amazing. Truly one of the most thorough builds I have seen in a long time. Just beautiful man. Sub'd and waiting in anticipation for more updates. Thanks for sharing this with us.


Thanks for the kind words . It's my pleasure to share the build. I'm just trying to pass on what I've learned from those that were kind enough to share their knowledge and techniques. Maybe I can add a little to that knowledge base too although I know I still have much to learn. Much of what I've done is probably pretty basic stuff to many.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Had several hours today to work on the car as I was home with my sick son. I managed to pretty much finish up layering the driver's side and got a pretty good start on the passenger side. I hope to pull the driver side mold on Sunday.

Here are a few pics as I know you guys like them. Funny thing... I took some with and without the flash on the camera and without it looks quite yellow. With the flash the glass looks almost clear.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Took a little break from the car today to catch a few of these . Remember I'm 6'5" and 3 bills so that's quite a nice Snook at 29" and about 10lbs.


----------



## Mirage_Man

3 more layers of 1.5 oz. on the passenger side today. That makes like 6'ish. It's hard to tell how thick the glass while it's in place but I think that should be good enough to pull it.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Pulled the enclosures this AM. Boy what a struggle it was getting them out. The whole foil/wax business did nothing. I ended up pulling them out with most of the tape coming with them! I guess all the little creases in the foil gave the resin something to grab onto.

Anyway, I think I'll end up doing at least a few more layers now that they're out of the car. Should go much quicker that way since I won't have to be leaning into the trunk upside down.

Here are some pics from this AM.


----------



## Mirage_Man




----------



## Lymen

Looks like nothing got thru the barriers, so win, just a pain to clean up....
Great looking work as usual. Love this build, cant wait to do mine, its already negtive temps here=-(

Lymen


----------



## tibug

Hmm, that's much prettier than my attempt at a wheelwell enclosure. Oh, god, so much prettier. Good work-professional work.


----------



## Matt R

Thats usually how it comes out. If you waxed it well the foil should come off the back of the glass for a real clean finished product. Thats where it will pay off.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Matt R said:


> Thats usually how it comes out. If you waxed it well the foil should come off the back of the glass for a real clean finished product. Thats where it will pay off.


X2 I pile that **** on like a whore :laugh:


----------



## YouSirName

Sorry to ask this dumb question, but what's the deal with the foil? Wouldn't just the blue masking tape with wax on top of it be enough so that the resin doesn't soak through?

Looks nice by the way. I remember doing mine like that (minus the foil) and let it sit in the trunk too long. When it came to removing the tape off of the mold it was a real pain the ass.


----------



## tonesmith

Your wife and neighbors must think you've gone mad, seeing such a big dude in a coupe car trunk for so long ... :laugh: Awesome stuff, you've convinced me to never do FG, wow what a mess, it like taking popcorn ceiling down. How was the fish?


----------



## Mirage_Man

A couple things... I only used one coat of wax which if I were to do it over I would certainly use several instead. That said I did manage to get almost all of the foil off the backs of the enclosures. Some of it came off in tiny pieces but it came off. I think if I had used a thicker foil it would have been easier to remove. Another thing I would have done differently is spray the foil while it was out of the car and then place it in the mold area. This would have prevented adhesive over-spray and made a much smoother surface to wax.



> Sorry to ask this dumb question, but what's the deal with the foil? Wouldn't just the blue masking tape with wax on top of it be enough so that the resin doesn't soak through?


The foil is supposed to help in that FG will not stick to it if waxed properly (see above).



> Your wife and neighbors must think you've gone mad, seeing such a big dude in a coupe car trunk for so long ... :laugh: Awesome stuff, you've convinced me to never do FG, wow what a mess, it like taking popcorn ceiling down. How was the fish?


My wife already knows I'm nuts. We've been together for 18 yrs. She's patiently waiting to get her husband back when I'm finished with this build. 

I hope I haven't discouraged anyone from doing FG. It can be a challenge but worth it in the end, at least it is to me. 

I didn't get to eat my Snook. They are out of season indefinitely due to the freezes we had down here a couple years ago. It killed of thousands of them and they (FWC) are protecting them until their numbers come back.

Pictures of the cleaned up molds coming soon so stay tuned...


----------



## t3sn4f2

Would it matter what side of the foil faces the resin, mate or shiny?


----------



## Mirage_Man

t3sn4f2 said:


> Would it matter what side of the foil faces the resin, mate or shiny?


I would think you want the slickest surface to make it easier to remove.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Pics as promised.

So what I did was remove all the foil, trim the edges and do a little sanding with the roloc disc here and there. The white areas you see on the molds are *not* unsaturated FG it's where I sanded with the roloc. These are just rough shapes at this point since I'l be laying up some more glass to make them a bit thicker.


----------



## scooter99

Nice progress. You're thread is pissin me off! You're making so much progress, and I can't even touch mine right now! Nice work!


----------



## Mirage_Man




----------



## scooter99

How much air space are your enclosures going to be again?


----------



## Stoph

Looks awesome!


----------



## kvndoom

Man! I took out that godforsaken rear deck panel, put some D'amp Pro on the metal and some CCF on the panel..

getting it back on was a *****! I was wishing I could take my windshield out for that ****. Ugh!

I won't have the time or money to do my car up like yours, but I worship you for your patience and bravery.


----------



## Mirage_Man

scooter99 said:


> How much air space are your enclosures going to be again?


I'm shooting for 1.5 cubes before displacement of the driver and any internal things like dowels that hold the ring etc. JL specs 1.25 but I like to go slightly larger for more low end extension.


----------



## HondAudio

Mirage_Man said:


> I'm shooting for 1.5 cubes before displacement of the driver and any internal things like dowels that hold the ring etc. JL specs 1.25 but I like to go slightly larger for more low end extension.


That was my goal with this build:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...435-2006-scion-xb-amp-rack-sub-enclosure.html

I'll measure again, but I'm sure I have a gross volume in excess of 1.25.


----------



## HiVi Guy

Wow! I am inspired. I like the smoked butts and the Snook also. I too am a saltwater fisherman and lover of smoked meat. Great work, I look forward to the updates.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Today's small update. Prepped the enclosures for some more layup by sanding with the roloc disc. Then made a ring and checked driver placement again. This will take some time to get it right so I can close the trunk and make it look nice. Also checked enclosure volume with the styrofoam pellets.


----------



## scooter99

Oh ya! It's on now! Nice! what kind of air sander do you use?


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Great job....those JLs are going to be quite happy in those enclosures


----------



## Mirage_Man

scooter99 said:


> Oh ya! It's on now! Nice! what kind of air sander do you use?


It's just a cheapy HF die grinder with an arbor to hold either a 2" or 3" sanding disc. I bought it a few years ago when I did my first FG project for my Tundra. Funny thing is it started coming apart today. I think I'm going to invest in a real one tomorrow .



AVIDEDTR said:


> Great job....those JLs are going to be quite happy in those enclosures


Thanks, I think they will too.


----------



## greywarden

Going sealed or ported? You may want to consider using some bracing in there, a subwoofer with just about any amount of power can make anything flex. Here's a recent thread about hardwood dowels as braces...

Interesting observation of Hardwood bracing - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com


----------



## Mirage_Man

greywarden said:


> Going sealed or ported? You may want to consider using some bracing in there, a subwoofer with just about any amount of power can make anything flex. Here's a recent thread about hardwood dowels as braces...
> 
> Interesting observation of Hardwood bracing - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com


Sealed and don't worry, there will be bracing. I'm no stranger to speaker building. I've been building speakers and sub boxes for 25 years. I overbuild my sub enclosures. It's only been the last few that have included fiberglass which required the learning of new techniques and how to work with new materials. There will be dowels holding the ring in place that will double as bracing. If I feel there needs to be more after that I will add some.

Here are a couple pics of the internals of a couple other enclosures I've built.


----------



## Joehs

Box looks great! I thought long and hard about an accord when I sold my truck, good looking ride.


----------



## Matt R

Looks like swiss cheese!!!!!! ;~)


----------



## Mirage_Man

Matt R said:


> Looks like swiss cheese!!!!!! ;~)


Ha ha, yeah it does .


----------



## HondAudio

Did somebody say "cabinet braces with rounded-over holes"? 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1419313-post3.html


----------



## Mirage_Man

Sorry no updates on the boxes today. We're having a Christmas party and I'm smoking some Fatties!


----------



## myhikingboots

Mirage_Man said:


> Sorry no updates on the boxes today. We're having a Christmas party and I'm smoking some Fatties!


----------



## bigbubba

Mirage_Man said:


> Sorry no updates on the boxes today. We're having a Christmas party and I'm smoking some Fatties!


Oh Dear GOD!!! 

That looks AWESOME!!!


----------



## Mirage_Man

And the finale... 



















Spinach, baby bellas and feta cheese.










Bacon and cheddar cheese.










Bacon and pepper-jack.










Sauteed mushrooms, sweet bells peppers, onions and provolone.


----------



## Rudeboy

Pork Wellington?
Steeves Salad?


----------



## evo9

Bacon Explosion!!!







.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Is that sausage meat or ground beef?


----------



## Mirage_Man

t3sn4f2 said:


> Is that sausage meat or ground beef?


Sausage.  They go by a few different names. Bacon Explosion, Fatty, Bacon bomb.

The pink around the edge is the smoke ring btw.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Mirage_Man said:


> Sausage.  They go by a few different names. Bacon Explosion, Fatty, Bacon bomb.
> 
> *The pink around the edge is the smoke ring btw*.


Yeah that would only be raw meat in bizarro world.


----------



## Mopar244DIY

Looks delicious !


----------



## PottersField

Mirage_Man said:


> And the finale...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spinach, baby bellas and feta cheese.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bacon and cheddar cheese.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bacon and pepper-jack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sauteed mushrooms, sweet bells peppers, onions and provolone.


----------



## scooter99

Damn you! Now my mouth is watering! Get back to work! LMAO!!! Those are sexy! You need to post a recipe for those of us who've never made em before! I'd be all over that! I'm guessing that's like Jimmy Dean in a roll, but you just flattened it out? Fill it with whatever goodness you want, wrap it with the bacon lattice work (beautifully done btw), and roll er up and put on the grill till you can't stand to wait anymore?!? Something like that?


----------



## Mirage_Man

scooter99 said:


> Damn you! Now my mouth is watering! Get back to work! LMAO!!! Those are sexy! You need to post a recipe for those of us who've never made em before! I'd be all over that! I'm guessing that's like Jimmy Dean in a roll, but you just flattened it out? Fill it with whatever goodness you want, wrap it with the bacon lattice work (beautifully done btw), and roll er up and put on the grill till you can't stand to wait anymore?!? Something like that?


Yeah, you pretty much got it. I smoked mine though for around 3 hours at 225 degrees to an internal temp of 165. 

I pretty much followed THIS tutorial.


----------



## Mirage_Man

So not much to post lately as I've just been layering the sub enclosures. The driver side is thick enough now and ready to start the layout of the ring and trunk arm clearance. The passenger side just needs a few more layers and it too will be ready. I measured the edge thickness in a couple spots as you will see. They are the thinnest right at the edge. I will be trimming some more off and will show just how thick it is. I suspect as much as 1/2" in some places but mostly between 1/4" and 3/8".


----------



## scooter99

Lookin good buddy!


----------



## ecbmxer

Fantastic! Thats some thick fiberglass!


----------



## Matt R

That sure is pretty work your doin!!!!!!!!! ;~)


----------



## Mirage_Man

Matt R said:


> That sure is pretty work your doin!!!!!!!!! ;~)


Thanks.


----------



## Mirage_Man

So I finished up layering the passenger side box's back the other day. This AM I worked on trimming the driver's side and checking driver placement again.

The tools used today:




























It's interesting to see that the glass did shrink some. I wasn't really expecting it to shrink that much but it shouldn't really effect anything.























































As you can see there are some pretty dang thick walls on the box.


----------



## DAT

Looking great, So glad you ended up grabbing more Resin and building the enclosure this way!

:thumbsup:


----------



## ecbmxer

My enclosure did the same thing. I'm not sure if it shrunk or the top edge sort of sags or curls a bit when it dries out of the car. I ended up carpeting it and so it didn't matter. When I pulled the carpet over the edge to glue it, that thickness took up the small gap when I bolted it in tight.


----------



## Mirage_Man

ecbmxer said:


> My enclosure did the same thing. I'm not sure if it shrunk or the top edge sort of sags or curls a bit when it dries out of the car. I ended up carpeting it and so it didn't matter. When I pulled the carpet over the edge to glue it, that thickness took up the small gap when I bolted it in tight.


Yeah, it won't really matter in my case because there will be a trim piece going over most of the enclosure.


----------



## scooter99

Hey Mirage, what kind of resin and stuff are you using?


----------



## Mirage_Man

scooter99 said:


> Hey Mirage, what kind of resin and stuff are you using?


 http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1492204-post297.html


----------



## scooter99

That's right. Sorry, I should've gone back and looked further. My apologies. Looking good by the way! That box looks STOUT!!


----------



## Mirage_Man

scooter99 said:


> That's right. Sorry, I should've gone back and looked further. My apologies. Looking good by the way! That box looks STOUT!!


No worries man I know there's a lot of pages to wade through.


----------



## scooter99

Well at least you're making progress on yours. I've got 55 pages of some building and mostly chatting! I'm probably going to do a new thread starting this week. One that only involves build pictures. Think everyone will just look in there and comment in the other thread! LOL

Keep it up man, I love where you're going with this. very meticulous and I dig that!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Really starting to feel like I'm getting somewhere now. I was off work today and had several hours in a row to work on the car (like 3  ). I got the driver side box back pretty much trimmed down to where I want it and the ring tacked in place with CA glue. Will be glassing the blocks before I attach the fabric. Also made a matching ring for the passenger side box after trimming and sanding it into shape. Now I just have to figure out how to get the passenger ring to sit just like the other for symmetry.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Got a couple hours today to work on the sub boxes. I positioned and tacked the passenger side ring in place with CA glue then glassed both braces and rings to the box. I will do some more glass on the bracing once I'm able.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Woo hoo! More progress made today. Picked up yet more resin and finally got the enclosures covered with ponte and resined. Before I did that however I mixed up some Duraglass and filled in the area right where the rings attached at the side of the enclosure. Then sanded it to shape. I also rabbeted the bottom edge where the MDF is to provide the relief needed when glassing to it.


----------



## Mirage_Man




----------



## scooter99

Nice freaking work man! Keep it up!


----------



## LS1 Sounds

Awesome work! I just read all 15 pages. Subscribed for more, especially the sound deadening impressions and the fatty recipe.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Thanks guys.

Well, I just measured the internal volume with the packing peanut method (would have been much more accurate with the little Styrofoam pellets but I would have never gotten them all out of the enclosure). I measured out 1 cuft. and dumped it in. Then measured out .5 and started putting it in. There was about 2" left in the bottom of the 12"x12" box that wouldn't fit which is approx .15 cuft. So taking into account for the spots the peanuts would not fit I figure it's probably 1.4-1.45 cuft. Not the 1.5 I was shooting for but close enough I think. 

1 cuft. 



















The area where the peanuts wouldn't go but which has air volume:


----------



## DAT

Looking great but the Polyfill you will be adding will help. You are using some correct?


----------



## Mirage_Man

DAT said:


> Looking great but the Polyfill you will be adding will help. You are using some correct?


You bet .


----------



## Mirage_Man

Today I prepped the enclosures for glassing the fronts by smoothing out where the ponte meets the enclosure by grinding and sanding. If there's one thing I've learned about FG it's that it's much easier to glass on a smooth surface. Once that was done I started laying down some glass. I started off with 3/4oz mat and then a couple layers of 1+1/2 oz. afterwards. The 1.5oz does not like to bend and I knew that going in so I will have to do some grinding along the bottom edge and a few other spots.


----------



## wolflett

Nice work MM. Looks clean


----------



## Mirage_Man

More fiber-glassing today. 

I decided to try something new for me. I want as even a surface as I can get on the front of the enclosures and I know that's very difficult to do using small pieces of glass. So I decided to cut one solid piece with a hole in it and glass it all at once. 

First thing I did was cut out a circle the same diameter as the rings so I could use it as a template. Then I cut like 10 pieces of 1.5 mat a few inches larger in both dimensions than the face of the enclosures. I laid that over the face of the enclosures and traced the edge of the ring. That gave me the spot to put the circle. I then cut around the edge of the circle with a utility knife and pulled out the circle. Then I laid that over the face of the box and lined up the mat as best as I could and trimmed the edges. Once that template was made I laid it on top of several of the rectangular pieces of mat, traced the edge laid the circle in the cut out. I pulled the template off leaving the circle in place and cut through the multiple pieces all at once. 

Once I had the pieces of mat cut I made sure the enclosures were smooth and free of nubs by grinding and sanding. Then proceeded to glass away. I managed to get 4 layers on both enclosures. So that makes 1x.75oz. layer and 4x1.5oz. layers on each at this point. I'm gonna need more mat I think to get them to the desired thickness.

One word of caution... If you're not at least comfortable with fiber-glassing I would hold off on doing large pieces like this until you are. It requires you to mix larger batches of resin and you must work quickly. Not to mention the fact that if the area you're working on has multiple compound curves it makes it even more tricky.

Anyway, here's some pics.


----------



## Mirage_Man

*HAPPY NEW YEAR!!*​


----------



## pastrol

A VERY IMPRESSIVE BUILD!!!


----------



## evo9

AWESOME WORK!













.


----------



## Mirage_Man

evo9 said:


> AWESOME WORK!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


LOL, too funny!


----------



## bigaudiofanatic

I love this build!!!!


----------



## audioanamoly

SUPER SOLID, VERY WELL THOUGHT OUT, CLEANLY EXECUTED WORK!!!! GREAT JOB, KEEP IT UP!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Haven't had a chance to work on the car for over a week. However I got a few hours this afternoon.

Since it had been so long since I laid up the last FG on the boxes I knew I needed to do some sanding to prep them for some more glass. So that's what I did, I sanded them down smooth. Once cleaned up I put them in the car to check to make sure they were still fitting ok. They did. 

In the process of sanding I realized I was going to have to approach the bottom edge separately from the front of the box's lay up. What was happening was because of the sharp corner, even with a rabbeted and rounded over edge, the glass was not making the bend and therefore mucho air pockets were forming with no real mechanical strength. So I decided to cut grind it down flat and use long thin strips of glass to fill the area and hopefully create a better bond at that edge. Once the glass kicked and hardened I trimmed it down and ground it even and filled in the small valley with some Duraglass.

That's it for today. Hopefully I'll get a chance to finish laying up the front of the enclosures in the next few days.

One thing I'm trying to decide is whether to make the trim part of the sub enclosure or to make it separate. Anyone have any thoughts on that question? Pictures always help if you can point me to them.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Had to break out the space heater due to the chilly upper 60 degree weather we were having today.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Had the day off today and spent a few hours working on the sub boxes. I realized that the rings were not thick enough to be able to take the remaining layers of glass yet to be laid. So I made some 1/4" thick rings and glued them to the existing rings before proceeding with the FG layup. Sorry I didn't take any pictures of making the rings.





































There are now 10 layers of 1.5oz. on the driver's side box face and 6 on the passenger side. I had to call it a day before getting the PS box to 10. I'm not sure how many layers I'm gonna do yet. 10 might be enough but I'll probably go at least 12.


----------



## scooter99

Very nice progress man! I can't wait to get my trunk started!


----------



## 0435sedan

Very nice.


----------



## derekgates

I am truly amazed at the level of craftsmanship and dedication to this install. Absolutely positive this system will blow you and any passenger away.

Wow. Just wow.


----------



## bobwires

Really stellar work Mirage Man. Through and Through

I especially like the machine work. I'd love to have a mill and a lathe some day....


----------



## Mirage_Man

Thanks Guys.



bobwires said:


> I especially like the machine work. I'd love to have a mill and a lathe some day....


I know you're in a pretty out of the way place up there but maybe keep your eye on craigslist. I got my first lathe there and the rest is history.


----------



## borahshadow

Fantastic work! I love the attention to detail that you are using for this build. I really appreciate clean installs. You haven't cut any corners on this build IMO. Very nice.


----------



## DaCid

I LOVE THIS THREAD. You have thought through every single step and detail. I am inspired by your patience, dedication, knowledge, and the clean work you are producing. And I'm super jelly of your tools! 

When I have the budget to support my build, I will definitely be looking to this thread to help me out!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Thanks guys. I hope my pics and descriptions will help someone out. 

I worked on the boxes some this afternoon but am gonna need to get some more resin. Not just for the boxes box for when I make the trim panels to go over the boxes.

No pics of today's work as there's not much different than what I've already posted. I really hope to be done glassing the sub boxes by the end of this coming week so I can start on the next phase of the project, either the floor or trim.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Well no pics but I finished layering the fronts of the sub boxes this AM. Each one now has 12 layers of 1.5oz. Mat. Shiuld be plenty thick for any driver I might use in the future.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Spent a little time this AM working on getting the enclosures attached to the car. The original mounting holes no longer line up due to the FG layup. I need them to be in their final position and not moving around so I can start on the floor and side trim panels. 

I also am working on a way to isolate the enclosure from the sheet metal to prevent buzzing. I think I am going to cover the sheet metal or the back of the enclosure with trunk liner.


----------



## Fireseeker

subd


----------



## Misanthropic

Those boxes turned out great Mman. Impeccable as usual.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Misanthropic said:


> Those boxes turned out great Mman. Impeccable as usual.


Thanks man. I still have to do some body filler work on them yet though.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Didn't get a chance to post these yesterday. I did some body work on the box faces with Duraglass and Rage Gold. Just a few small touch ups and they'll be ready for carpet or vinyl.


----------



## Mirage_Man




----------



## ramonesfan

Just spent 3 beverages (in time) reading every post of this build....wow-e-wowowow. And you're a smoker cook to boot! Unbelievable craftsmanship and persistence, thanks for sharing and looking forward to following thru the end.


----------



## Mirage_Man

ramonesfan said:


> Just spent 3 beverages (in time) reading every post of this build....wow-e-wowowow. And you're a smoker cook to boot! Unbelievable craftsmanship and persistence, thanks for sharing and looking forward to following thru the end.


Thanks man.


----------



## Mirage_Man

OK now ready for carpet or vinyl . Just have to decide which. However they will be covered most of the time with the trim panels I have yet to make. I'm thinking about making a ring out of aluminum that goes where the wood ring is now that when the speaker grill is popped out will reveal the aluminum around the driver.


----------



## armed

oh my GOD!


----------



## Austin

Just read through the entire build. Subscribing for deadening impressions and the finish of this build.


----------



## Mirage_Man

So made the decision to carpet the boxes and went ahead and did it this evening. I learned something too... I'm not as good carpeting boxes as I am other things.


----------



## Mirage_Man




----------



## strong*I*bumpin

These enclosures are flawless,can't wait to see the finished product.Makes mine look like crap,time for a re-do


----------



## TheDavel

Those came out very, very nice... Some small critiques... you being the perfectionist that you are (which is a good thing) did more finishing work that needed since you carpeted them (I wouldve done the same because I'm anal) and I'm thinking you'll regret not recessing the subs... Just my opinion but it provides a cleaner look and ends up being more functional... Your attention to detail in all of your projects is a cut above... keep it up!

And yes I did note that you were also considering covering them w/vinyl which the extra finish work would have been needed for, for sure...


----------



## Mirage_Man

TheDavel said:


> Those came out very, very nice... Some small critiques... you being the perfectionist that you are (which is a good thing) did more finishing work that needed since you carpeted them (I wouldve done the same because I'm anal) and I'm thinking you'll regret not recessing the subs... Just my opinion but it provides a cleaner look and ends up being more functional... Your attention to detail in all of your projects is a cut above... keep it up!
> 
> And yes I did note that you were also considering covering them w/vinyl which the extra finish work would have been needed for, for sure...


Thanks .

What you don't realize is that when the trim panel is on they will be recessed. That is the reason I decided on carpet. You will not even see the enclosures nor the drivers with them and the grilles on. How's that for going above and beyond?!! 

It will be something like Matt R did on this G37.


----------



## TheDavel

Gotcha and now it all makes perfect sense... Looking foward to progress pics...


----------



## mark620

I have been following this build the whole time and I must say your attention to detail and level of install skill is amazing. Somewhere I spotted this car may be leased.? If so OMG you might have to buy it out at the end because all of us would cry knowing you will have to take all your work out when its time for the car to go back.. I am looking foward to seeing it done. Keep up the insain work and maybe you might want to change career's and be a east coast BING..(simplicityinsound)


----------



## Mirage_Man

mark620 said:


> I have been following this build the whole time and I must say your attention to detail and level of install skill is amazing. Somewhere I spotted this car may be leased.? If so OMG you might have to buy it out at the end because all of us would cry knowing you will have to take all your work out when its time for the car to go back.. I am looking foward to seeing it done. Keep up the insain work and maybe you might want to change career's and be a east coast BING..(simplicityinsound)


Thank you and yes it is a lease. I most certainly do plan to buy it out. There's no way I would put this much effort into it if I weren't going to. 

As far as a career change? Well, I have no doubt that I could certainly do this type of work. The question is would I want to and could I work fast enough to make a living at it? I would be afraid that the need to finish quickly would promote the taking of shortcuts. The reason I get the results I do is that I take my time and try not to get in a rush. I don't know that I would be able to speed up enough to make it work. There are no doubt those that can I just don't know if I could.

An east coast Bing, eh? I don't know that I'm on that level but thanks. That's quite a compliment.


----------



## AvalancheDave

Very nice, clean work! I aplaud your skills and patience!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Got the sub boxes bolted in this AM. Then I started planning out the amp rack/floor/trim panel placement. It's going to take some good planning to get everything to come together right.


----------



## DiMora

Wow...amazingly clean build...nice, tidy work, very meticulous and professional.

EXCELLENT!

And the bacon...epic mealtime next-level build-thread maneuver! While everyone else was hatin', you were building and eating!

(You do know Epic Mealtime, don't you?)


----------



## Mirage_Man

DiMora said:


> Wow...amazingly clean build...nice, tidy work, very meticulous and professional.
> 
> EXCELLENT!
> 
> And the bacon...epic mealtime next-level build-thread maneuver! While everyone else was hatin', you were building and eating!
> 
> (You do know Epic Mealtime, don't you?)


Thanks Bud.

I wasn't aware of epic mealtime but I googled it. Now that site is a testament to the man that just doesn't care about his arteries .


----------



## scooter99

Looking sooooo clean my friend! Nice work!


----------



## d5sc

Wow, definitely an impressive build with great attention to detail and installation foresight!

Thanks for sharing this with us!


----------



## viscious350z

One of my favorite builds ive seen in a long time. Keep up the great work.


----------



## strong*I*bumpin

Just stunning fab work.You gave me an idea where to place a 5 channel amp in my Accord.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Today's small update:

I worked on the amp rack making a tray for the amps to sit in that will be bolted to the metal hinged frame. I have not yet assembled it as I am trying to figure out how the floor will go over it. I'd like to incorporate some edge lit plexi some how but I have never done it and am at a bit of a loss on how to go about it without making the final floor go above the sub drivers.


----------



## simplicityinsound

okay, so i did read that you plan to have another panel that goes over the subboxes? if so, are you still going to be able to see the sub? if not, and its just a breathable cover, then it doesnt really matter if the fake floor rises up to be above the level of the subs right? 

if you do still plan to show off the subs themselves, then really the only way is to angle the floor downward down around the subs, either both sides can be angled downward, or, you can make a corresponding rounded depression right where the subs are.

or instead of using wood, just bolt the amps directly to the metal frame to gain that extra 1/2"

for the first idea...this is totally different but notices on my porsche install, if i didnt angle the ends of the subbox top cover downward, it would hit the side spekaer pod...i am talking about the same idea for the eges of your fake floor:










as for the second idea, i donthave a pic to show you...but basically the floor would be flat, until about a coupla inches from the sub, then you attach a portion of a ring with slightly larger diameter than the sub, and basically it has a rounded dip so the subs are still show...makes sense?


----------



## Matt R

Good to see some progress, here is one of my daily drivers. Similar to what your going for I think. You prolly just need to think about how to thin things out a bit, like Bing said bolt the amps to the steel.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Yeah, I had originally planned to bolt the amps to the metal fame. However, now that things have progressed a bit I may have to shorten the rack some to be able to accommodate the back floor support and still be able to lift the amp rack to access the spare. That means that I have to move the amps more towards the front of the trunk and I lose the space I had figured on mounting the processor. So the next best place to mount it is on the bottom of the amp rack under the amps which can be done if the MDF floor is there to mount it to. I suppose if I really had to I could find another place in the car for it. It's just that it would be so easy to wire everything up out of the car on the rack.


----------



## nar93da

What about if you mount the processor upside down like you said but center it in the spare tire. I don't know if all the wiring would clear but would allow you to use the metal frame.

I've been following since the beginning and those sub boxes turned out great. Keep it up!


----------



## t3sn4f2

Matt R said:


> Good to see some progress, here is one of my daily drivers. Similar to what your going for I think. You prolly just need to think about how to thin things out a bit, like Bing said bolt the amps to the steel.


Is that back panel by the rear seat a protective wall of sorts which also allows passive cooling of the components behind it?


----------



## Matt R

Yep old school! I did this trunk in '03 when the car was new with old equipment I had.


----------



## strong*I*bumpin

Matt R said:


> Yep old school! I did this trunk in '03 when the car was new with old equipment I had.


Gotta love those old skool MTX amps,if I can only find a mono version from that era to go with my 2 channel


----------



## Mirage_Man

The other day I got a sheet of 3/8" MDF to use as the bottom of the amp try to help save some height. Today I spent the day working on the amp tray/rack and the back support for the floor (no pics of the back floor support). I got the amps laid out and screwed down to the amp rack as well as the processor on the bottom. The metal frame has been attached to the MDF amp tray to make it easier to put it in and take it out. I am not going to attach the back floor support until I have finalized how I'm going to latch the back of the amp rack/frame assembly so I can make the floor that's going over it the right height. The metal frame has to be shortened by about 1.5" in the back as well so I have to borrow my buddies welder again.

I've given up on the idea of having any edge lit plexi or even a nice vinyl covered trim panel. There's just not enough room to do it. At this point I just want to get it done so I can listen to some tunes! My patience is wearing very thin at this point. It feels as if I'm never going to be able to get it done! 

This whole process is like a giant 3-dimesional jigsaw puzzle that I am creating out of nothing. I have to give props to those of you that do this for a living. I wish there were someone close to me with experience doing this kind of work that could help me out.

Anyway, enough of my bitching , here's a few pictures from today.


----------



## scooter99

Aw man you're killin this thing. I know it takes time, but what you're doing, is nothing short of immaculate work! Don't stop now. You're on the home stretch! You'll get it! Work looks amazing again! I wish I was as far as you are now. I'm just sitting here dreaming of the day I finally finish mine! Keep at it! We're all behind you 100%!


----------



## trojan fan

scooter99 said:


> I'm just sitting here dreaming of the day I finally finish mine!


Stop the second guessing and that day might happen....


----------



## fergusonv

Amazing build! Great work!


----------



## Mopar244DIY

gotta see this to completion. I think you're doing great. Don't stop. You'll be soooo happy when it's finished. Don't forget to show it off!


----------



## scooter99

trojan fan said:


> Stop the second guessing and that day might happen....


And there he is! Knew you were still around somewhere! Always willing to jack another mans thread to get in a dig at me! You're a real class act buddy! Amazing!


----------



## vwjmkv

very nice build, giving me ideas for my car. can't wait to see end product


----------



## Matt R

You got it man. Looks good!!!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I'm not gonna give up but I sure do have those "F" it moments .

I look at the pictures in this thread during the day while I'm working to see if I can get ideas. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to support and secure the amp rack at the back end yet still be able to lift it and also support the floor that will cover it . The back of the car slopes out as it goes down from the trunk latch area. So the rack edge has to clear the floor edge support (which is why I'm gonna shorten the rack some). I'm thinking that the extensions on the sides that are now supporting the rack that rest on the ledge around the spare tire well will have to but cut off to accommodate the floor and it's supports lip.

Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## scooter99

I'm sure these would help for sure with the lifting! One on each side! 

Lift Supports Systems | Hood | Window | Trunk | Hatch | Auto Parts By Lou

As far as support for the top, and really weight, you would do yourself ALOT of good to remake the whole rack, the wood part, out of birch. Very Strong, and about 1/3 the weight of MDF. For the top use 1/2" birch and you won't need to support it. on the edges much. Maybe just a dowel or something in each corner. 

Hopefully I'm understanding you correctly on what you're asking. But those Gas Struts will help in lifting the whole rack when you need to get under it. 

Good luck!


----------



## Mirage_Man

I'm not worried about the lifting at this point. I'm trying to figure out how to anchor the back end of the rack so it doesn't bounce up and down while driving around. Those tabs on the back end of the rack sit on a ledge that surrounds the spare tire well. I had though about welding something to them with a notch cut out that would when lowered mate with a bolt welded to the car. Then a wing nut would be screwed down to secure it. 

I was also thinking based on the install I was modeling mine after, that I need to have a lip or ledge all the way around the trunk for the floor to sit on. The front and back ledges give you something to go off of to make the ledges that are integrated into the side trim panels. See this post to see what I mean.

Maybe I just need to think about doing it completely differently.

As to using Birch plywood? I may look at that for the floor but the tray is fairly light considering it's mostly 3/8" MDF with only the 2" border being 1/2".


----------



## mark620

Can you make a support to go accrossed the back of the trunk (bumper side) that the tray would sit on. You could put a couple of 1inch soft rubber feet on it and use a bolt with a plastic nut /knob like the ones that are on the spare tire tool assmebly. That way you can be able to tighten it down and almost have a shock absorbing system for the tray. You could even use a short bungy rope and make like a jjep hood latch..What ever will work with the finished cover...good luck ..keep up the amazing work


----------



## adamtwo4

Just read the whole build, and absolutely amazing workmanship and attention to detail.

Can't wait to see the completed product.


----------



## Matt R

Jig clamps are cool and can be used to positively hold down the rack. You could reach in throught the hole in the top of the rack to pop it up


----------



## mrboots

Agree with everyone else, amazing work! 

Keep it up!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Small update for today.

My buddy came by with his welder and helped me figure out how to secure the back of the amp rack. What we did was welded a piece of flat stock to the bottom corners of the amp rack. Then bent some flat bar stock that fit the angles of the sides of the spare tire well that mated with flat stock that had been welded to the bottom corners of the rack. Then the pieces were clamped together and holes were drilled through both. 1/4"x20 nuts were then welded to the bottom of the pieces that were to be welded to the car. We then ran a bolt through and welded the bent pieces to the car. Then a gusset was welded in for support. 

We also welded vertical supports at the front of the wheel well to eliminate the sag from the weight of the amps. Pretty simple solution yet it's rock solid.

I will probably fabricate a t-handle wrench to keep in the trunk to unscrew the bolts should I need to access the spare.

Now I can focus on the side trim panels.


----------



## Mirage_Man




----------



## Matt R

Cool man


----------



## thehatedguy

First thing I am buying when I move is a welder.


----------



## [email protected]

Liking the install so far! Why not use dzus 1/4 turn fasteners in place of those hex head bolts?


----------



## Mirage_Man

Matt R said:


> Cool man


Thought you'd like that. 




thehatedguy said:


> First thing I am buying when I move is a welder.


I wish I had one. It does come in real handy. A welder is on my tools to get list. 



[email protected] said:


> Liking the install so far! Why not use dzus 1/4 turn fasteners in place of those hex head bolts?


Thanks. Was not aware of those until now. They might have worked but the nuts are welded on now and hopefully I'll never have to loosen the bolts once tightened .


----------



## Baada

I knew you'd figure it out right after you got super frustrated. I think our brains work the hardest when we are at the end of our rope!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Baada said:


> I knew you'd figure it out right after you got super frustrated. I think our brains work the hardest when we are at the end of our rope!


Well as much as I'd like to take credit for the mounting solution I can't. I have to give credit where credit is due. That was mostly my buddy's idea. He is a machinist by trade and has been fabricating for a long time.


----------



## DaCid

Hey, who cares whose idea it was! Whether your own, your buddy's, someone from this forum..... As long as you found a way to make things work!  

I love this build, and now I know how I can about finishing my trunk, thanks for sharing this!


----------



## JayinMI

I was thinking of the fold-flat hood pins used on cars. That would have been pretty sweet too.

Jay


----------



## [email protected]

Mirage_Man said:


> Thanks. Was not aware of those until now. They might have worked but the nuts are welded on now and hopefully I'll never have to loosen the bolts once tightened .


I hope the same for you. With that said, if the current fasteners do not work out the tabs would be easy to modify for the Dzus... I also like the Aero Catch brand hood pin idea. 1 or 2 of those would work great and also be cosmetically pleasing. 

Keep the build progress coming!


----------



## funkalicious

Just finished the whole thread. Fantastic meticulous work! You have inspired me to improve my install and shared some great solutions and techniques for solving some of the problems I ran into. Thanks!


----------



## Talon_66

Just read all 19 pages, Im hooked! Impressive build


----------



## Mirage_Man

Well my patience has worn to the point where I decided to go ahead and at least get the amp rack wired up so I will be able to listen to what I have now and figure where the wires will be routed. 

The amp rack is done except for the speaker wire since I'm not sure if I'm going to use a terminal block mounted in between the amps and speakers or not.

No pictures but I drilled holes in the sub enclosures, ran some speaker wire through them and sealed up the holes with silicone. I hope the silicone will do the job.


----------



## Mirage_Man

I decided to use a barrier strip to pre-wire the speakers to the amps. This way all I have to do is bolt the amp rack in and then wire up the speakers at the barrier strip at the top of the amp rack. 

BTW just an FYI... silicone does not stick to fiberglass very well. I ended up pulling the speaker wire I had run into the sub boxes out and cleaning up the holes. I will have to come up with a better method to seal the speaker wire holes. I think maybe Duraglass will work. At least I know it will stick to the FG.


----------



## NoelSibs

Are you using a terminal cup on the outside of the box? I've seen people on here use ssome sort of construction adhesive to sttick the termninal cup to the fiberglass and then use silicone after that. Maybe that'll work out for ya?

Great install by the way. My first car was an old accord sedan... If it had a system like yours in it, I would never have let it go!  hehehe


----------



## Mirage_Man

NoelSibs said:


> Are you using a terminal cup on the outside of the box? I've seen people on here use ssome sort of construction adhesive to sttick the termninal cup to the fiberglass and then use silicone after that. Maybe that'll work out for ya?
> 
> Great install by the way. My first car was an old accord sedan... If it had a system like yours in it, I would never have let it go!  hehehe


I thought about it but I'm not using terminal cups. Funny thing is construction adhesive is exactly what I had in mind to use next. I'm sure that will do the trick. I will post a few pics later of how it turns out.


----------



## Mirage_Man

As promised here are a few pics of what I did with the speaker wire issue in the sub boxes.

I cut away some of the carpet from around the holes and cleaned off the contact adhesive from the carpet with acetone. Then I put a slight chamfer on the hole edge with a Uni-bit. Then I scuffed up around the hole and the speaker wire jacket with some sand paper to give the adhesive some more bite. Then gooped up in the hole and around the wire with the construction adhesive. That should do it .


----------



## bombzombie

Bravo Mirage! This is some excellent work man!! And I'm going to make some fatties next weekend! I'm thinking of making them cajun style and throwing in some crawfish. I'll post pics when we get then all fired up and off the grill.

Way to go and a great build. Keep it up. I know from my last truck that it can take a long time to reach your goal, but it is absolutely worth it!


----------



## Mirage_Man

bombzombie said:


> Bravo Mirage! This is some excellent work man!! And I'm going to make some fatties next weekend! I'm thinking of making them cajun style and throwing in some crawfish. I'll post pics when we get then all fired up and off the grill.
> 
> Way to go and a great build. Keep it up. I know from my last truck that it can take a long time to reach your goal, but it is absolutely worth it!


Thanks .

Let us know how the fatties come out.

BTW, just in case anyone is curious the construction adhesive worked like a charm. There ain't no way the wire is pulling out now and it's sealed up tight







.


----------



## Rudeboy

Funny. I didn't read the caption, just looked at the photos and thought: Oh no, after all that work he's gone crazy and started drilling holes through the floor of the car - carpet and all and sealing it up with caulk


----------



## NoelSibs

Can a fatty like me partake in the consumption of a fatty? hehehe I wanna try the recipe in the link you posted but I'm afraid my family over here in the Philippines will not look too fondly on it... They already comment a lot about the FATTY food I eat! (pun intended) 

Nice job plugging that hole! glad it's all sealed up and that the speaker wire is secure... I'm gonna re-do my sub enclosure soon and I'll probably do exactly what you did!


----------



## Mirage_Man

Rudeboy said:


> Funny. I didn't read the caption, just looked at the photos and thought: Oh no, after all that work he's gone crazy and started drilling holes through the floor of the car - carpet and all and sealing it up with caulk


Wouldn't be the first, nor probably the last time someone thought I was nuts ! 



NoelSibs said:


> Can a fatty like me partake in the consumption of a fatty? hehehe I wanna try the recipe in the link you posted but I'm afraid my family over here in the Philippines will not look too fondly on it... They already comment a lot about the FATTY food I eat! (pun intended)
> 
> Nice job plugging that hole! glad it's all sealed up and that the speaker wire is secure... I'm gonna re-do my sub enclosure soon and I'll probably do exactly what you did!


All I can say is most people love my BBQ and put aside the artery clogging part to enjoy it .

I know there are many ways to skin a cat but that construction adhesive will have that wire anchored there long after I'm gone unless I decided for some reason to cut it out.


----------



## Mirage_Man

I so badly wanted to hear how everything sounded that I got everything wired up this AM. Wouldn't you know it I of course had a few issues. First I forgot to wire the subs for a 4 ohm load and blew the fuses on one of the 750.2's. Then for some reason the supposed NIB 350.2 that I bought from someone on one of the forums wouldn't power up at all . I will be sending that one off to have it looked at. At least I have a DC200.2 I can use for tweeter duty until I get the 350.2 back.


----------



## bombzombie

There will always be set backs but it's looking good!! Just keep at it and it will come together.


----------



## NoelSibs

So sorry to hear about your amp problems... 

At least it happened in the middle of the build stage. Imagine if you got everything all set to go and perfect then the fuses blow right when you power up! You'd have to take the whole thing apart again! Well, seeing how detail oriented you are though, you would probably have tested it before it got to that... hehe

Keep your head up! It's looking really good and coming along really nicely!


----------



## Rudeboy

NoelSibs said:


> So sorry to hear about your amp problems...
> 
> At least it happened in the middle of the build stage. Imagine if you got everything all set to go and perfect then the fuses blow right when you power up! You'd have to take the whole thing apart again! Well, seeing how detail oriented you are though, you would probably have tested it before it got to that... hehe
> 
> Keep your head up! It's looking really good and coming along really nicely!


Did you look at the date of the first post? If this is the middle he has another year to go 

- not that there's anything wrong with that


----------



## Mirage_Man

Rudeboy said:


> Did you look at the date of the first post? If this is the middle he has another year to go
> 
> - not that there's anything wrong with that


 

I didn't really start the build until mid September


----------



## metalball

Killer install. Can't wait to see the finished product! Sub'd.


----------



## Mirage_Man

No pics but I have a small update. After last week's problems (blowing fuses and finding my tweeter amp wouldn't power on) I decided this morning to try and get _some tunes _out of my system for the ride to work. Well, that didn't happen. What I did get manage to get was sound from a DVD over the optical cable but none of my analog sources would work (HD-radio, Ipod, BT-audio etc). Pretty disappointing to say the least. It should have been as simple as re-connecting the power and remote turn on cables to the amps and setting the x-overs in the 701.

Fortunately my job allowed me the opportunity to spend some time on the phone with Alpine and another guy I highly trust troubleshooting the problem. We figured that there must be some issue with the Ai-net cable or perhaps the HD-radio tuner that is in the Ai-net daisy chain. So, I had resigned myself to pull the dash apart tomorrow to see about by-passing the hd tuner to see if that was it. 

Fast forward to this evening just before heading home from work. I thought just for giggles I'd pop the trunk and unplug the Ai-net cable and re-seat it at the 701. Guess what I discovered?... While working on the system last week I had inadvertently plugged the Ai-net cable into the "CD changer" port! Boy did I feel like a dumb-ass for not checking that earlier. I guess I was thrown by the fact that I was still able to control all the 701's functions even though it was not in the right port. It never occurred to me that the cable wasn't in the right place. Needless to say I was very happy to discover nothing was fried. Moral of this story? Double check your connections!!

So after all that I was able to play around with the system sans tweeters for a little while (don't have a Symbilink cable to be able to use the DC200.2 for the tweets). What I found was that this system is gonna freak'in rock! I also discovered that the sun-glass holder / dome light console on the headliner near the windshield rattles like a banshee on high volume bass notes. I'm definitely going to have to address that in some way (anyone have a method to stop or reduce a rattle like that?).

Now that the system has some life to it I can't wait to get the tweeters up and running.


----------



## DaCid

I'm not sure about the sun-glass holder, but for my dome light I just had to add a small piece of fiber tape (any clear tape) to the edges for "padding"... No more rattles.


----------



## scooter99

very happy for you buddy! Nice work!


----------



## bombzombie

Mirage_Man said:


> What I found was that this system is gonna freak'in rock! I also discovered that the sun-glass holder / dome light console on the headliner near the windshield rattles like a banshee on high volume bass notes. I'm definitely going to have to address that in some way (anyone have a method to stop or reduce a rattle like that?).


I've got the same problem. I tighten the screws up but they just loosen up every few weeks. In fact, I'm noticing many screws are. I'm thinking a bit of CCF or gasket seal in the proper places will isolate it and stop the rattles.


----------



## HondAudio

bombzombie said:


> I've got the same problem. I tighten the screws up but they just loosen up every few weeks. In fact, I'm noticing many screws are. I'm thinking a bit of CCF or gasket seal in the proper places will isolate it and stop the rattles.


Get some Loctite Threadlocker Blue 242 and dab it on the screws. It acts like a glue to hold the screws in their sockets, but the seal can be broken by the ordinary action of using a screwdriver.

Make sure it's the blue version and not the red or green - those are permanent


----------



## Mirage_Man

Been awhile since I've posted any updates...

I've been driving around for the last week or so listening to the system sans tweeters and I must say while I'm dying to hear it with tweeters it sounds pretty damn good now albeit a little flat. Bass and mid-bass heavy songs like Yello- "The Expert" are freaking tight! It just rips into your chest unlike I've ever had in a car. 

Also I got word the other day that the 350.2 I thought was broken is fine. There's nothing wrong with it. I was really quite shocked to hear that but pleased none the less. There was something really funky going on the day I first fired up the system. I think it had something to do with the "summed L&R mono" switch on one of the 750.2's. I don't know. I had an old Stinger Y-cable coming out of the H701's sub and center/sub outs feeding the R input on the 750.2. It wasn't stable until I ran just one RCA to the R input and switched it to Bridged mode. While I still had the Y cable in place the 350.2 would not turn on even when using the 12V straight off the fuse block to feed both the power in and turn on circuit. Here's the kicker... when I would turn off the head unit the 750.2 would continue to run but if I unplugged the fuse on the 350 (which wouldn't turn on) the 750 would then shut off! I thought something was screwed with the 350.2 but apparently not. Oh well, so goes things in car audio I guess .

Anyway, while it's out I've decided to have it modified by Matt R. Not quite sure what his plans are for it but he knows it will eventually be used for mid-range duty when I go 3-way. I'm leaving it in his capable hands to decide. 

In the meantime I made the decision to use a DC200.2 for the tweets that I had planned to sell. The only problem was that the DC series require a Symbilink cable for connection which of course I didn't have. Fortunately I was able to track down a short 1.5 ft. cable locally from a former Zapco dealer. I have yet to get the amp in but the first chance I get I'm hooking her up and will report back. 

Stay tuned for more. This certainly ain't over yet .


----------



## Mirage_Man

Got the dc200.2 wired up this am however I had to quit before the tweets were wired up.

Crappy cell phone pic


----------



## scooter99

Nice Good to hear you're liking the sound! Satisfying feeling after all the work huh!


----------



## Mirage_Man

scooter99 said:


> Nice Good to hear you're liking the sound! Satisfying feeling after all the work huh!


Yes, it's a fantastic feeling to finally hear the fruits of my labor.

As soon as I got home tonight I finished up wiring the tweeters and got them up and running. I just couldn't stand it another minute . Since those damn Scanspeak terminals are so freaking fragile I made some pigtails out of some 16g Stinger HPM twisted pair speaker wire with quick disconnects on the other end.

Now that they're playing I can really see how this set-up is going to sound... all I can say is WOW! I am so happy. If it sounds this good with just some basic X-over slopes, no EQ or T/A then I can't wait to get it dialed in. Now I just need to decide where to mount the tweeters (pillars or sails panels).


----------



## Matt R

Put some epoxy on the terminals and glue all that u already did right to the housing. That's how 
I've been doing them.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Matt R said:


> Put some epoxy on the terminals and glue all that u already did right to the housing. That's how
> I've been doing them.


-I'd also very carefully bend the terminals inward. Supporting and holding the part of the terminal right before the area that makes contact to the tweeter terminal tab. One single bend won't compromise the terminal metal.

That should take off an inch of mounting depth which is a must for mounting 
them in those sails. Hell I'd do it for a pillar mount as well.

-Nice job so far mirage man. You might want to look into the new Honda crosstour's sail panels. From pictures, it looks like they redesigned them to a design that has a wider firing angle, and could let you mount them more on axis than the accord's. The doors on that car and the sail panel area looks the same so they should fit on your car. One thing you might have to do is drill out some of the blocked off plastic grill holes. it might be designs for a 3/4 inch tweeter. or just replace that removable grill part with a new more acoustically transparent molded metal grill insert. should looks oem still.

By the way, how are you liking the sound deadening job?


----------



## Mirage_Man

Now that I think about I may take those crimp terminals off and solder the wire directly on to save mounting depth.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Mirage_Man said:


> Now that I think about I may take those crimp terminals off and solder the wire directly on to save mounting depth.


Be very careful with that.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-sq-forum-technical-advanced/62171-peek-scan-speak-illuminator-d2004-60200-tweeter.html


----------



## Mirage_Man

t3sn4f2 said:


> Be very careful with that.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...an-speak-illuminator-d2004-60200-tweeter.html


Yeah, I remember seeing that. It's just now that the connectors are on there I realize as you guys have mentioned how much mounting depth they take up . Maybe I'll try the bending routine first.


----------



## DaCid

I was curious, have you taken it for a night drive yet? I was just wondering if you are noticing dimming of your instrument cluster and headlights, or if just having that upgraded battery was enough to keep your electrical system strong enough.


----------



## Mirage_Man

DaCid said:


> I was curious, have you taken it for a night drive yet? I was just wondering if you are noticing dimming of your instrument cluster and headlights, or if just having that upgraded battery was enough to keep your electrical system strong enough.


On _really heavy_ current hungry bass I get a_ little _dimming but for most stuff it seems fine. I may look into getting another battery for the back at some point though.


----------



## DaCid

Mirage_Man said:


> On _really heavy_ current hungry bass I get a_ little _dimming but for most stuff it seems fine. I may look into getting another battery for the back at some point though.


Sweet! Is the size of your alt a 135A?


----------



## Mirage_Man

DaCid said:


> Sweet! Is the size of your alt a 135A?


I can't remember but it's the same one that's in the 6 cylinder.


----------



## Mirage_Man

OK so in an effort to try and get my tweeters mounted for SBN I threw together some tweeter rings this AM. 

Started with 1/2" MDF cut out to the closest diameters my Japser jig would allow then glues some veneer banding around the perimeter for flush mounting. I may add another layer of banding but if I can get away without it I will since it will create the smallest edge around the tweeter.

I am showing the steps in the pictures below for those that don't know how do this. 

New Model 400 Jasper jig that I've had for years:









Installed on router:









Routed outside diameter of ring sitting on sacrificial piece of MDF. Both pieces clamped to table to prevent them from moving:









Remove ring:









Put down a piece of two sided carpet tape. This is to prevent the ring from spinning or moving when routing the inner diameter:


















Replace ring in previously routed spot:









Put original piece of MDF down and clamp to table to support router jig plate: 









Route inner diameter cut-out. Notice how the ring stays put:


----------



## Mirage_Man

Whala! Perfect tiny tweeter ring. I could have also used this method to create the outer lip with a round-over but since the D3004 is rather large I'm trying to keep it small as possible:









Mark, clamp and dremmel out tweeter terminal clearance. Can also just plunge down with router bit while stuck to MDF which is what I did with the second ring:


















OK, I didn't get a chance to take any pictures while attaching the edge banding as I was working with CA glue. It's rather messy and I didn't want to take the chance of getting any on my DSLR. But what I did was cut the banding roughly to length, start gluing it around the outer diameter and where it over lapped I cut through both with a razor knife to create a nice butt seam prior to gluing it down. As I said earlier I may add another layer of banding but will wait to see if stretching the material over it creates any issues: 


















The tweeter fit with small bit of side clearance, probably not enough for vinyl but certainly enough for paint. The depth will be addressed later (will need trimming to sit flush with the top of the tweeter flange):


----------



## thbugman

Subscribed


----------



## Mirage_Man

Descriptions added to go with the pictures in the above posts.


----------



## Mirage_Man

This morning I worked on the tweeter install some more. I decided to go with the sail panels for now but may try out the pillars down the road.

First thing I did was pick up a cheapy laser pointer at the local hardware store for like $3 and make a puck to sit inside the rings. All I had on hand that was large enough in diameter was some 6061 aluminum so I made it from that. It was quite heavy so I bored material out from both sides to lighten it up. 




























I then wrapped it with a few layers of tape to give a snug yet easily removable fit. I put the laser pointer in and was then ready to go about positioning the rings.



























Before I started on the sails I placed a piece of tape on the headliner about a foot behind my head and at the center of the car. This is the area I will be aiming the tweeters. The idea is to have both tweeters the same degree off axis from your head. I hope this position will create the effect I'm after but a new set of sails are ready should I need to redo them.

I took the sail panels and started trimming plastic away until the ring fit close enough that I could put it in the car and start aiming with the laser. I had to take it out and tweak the trimming a couple times but got it close pretty quickly. Once I knew I was ready I got out the CA glue and some toothpicks. It was tricky but I managed to get it positioned and tacked in place by myself. Once set with the toothpick I grabbed a scrap of MDF and glued it in for a stronger hold. I popped out the toothpick and replaced it with MDF as well.


----------



## Mirage_Man

One thing is for sure... I won't have to worry about the terminals not clearing the back with this angle.


----------



## Jumbo Jet

I'll be at SBN on Saturday. Will you have this car over in the SQ building? I'll keep a look out for you


----------



## Mirage_Man

Jumbo Jet said:


> I'll be at SBN on Saturday. Will you have this car over in the SQ building? I'll keep a look out for you


I'll be there but not competing this year. The car just won't be ready this time around.


----------



## NoelSibs

That's an awesome and nifty little laser for alignment!  I just removed my tweeter from it's tweeter cup and used double stick tape to put a pointer in there! I prefer your version to my ghetto version... That's awesome!


----------



## Mirage_Man

NoelSibs said:


> That's an awesome and nifty little laser for alignment!  I just removed my tweeter from it's tweeter cup and used double stick tape to put a pointer in there! I prefer your version to my ghetto version... That's awesome!


Thanks, it could easily be made out of wood too with a router or drill and the right bits. Just get your diameters as close as you can and use masking tape to build it up some if need be.


----------



## Mirage_Man

Worked till 3am last night and a few hours this am but got the pods useable. I'll post build pics later but here are a few crappy cell phone pics.


----------



## airseeker

I am about to start a similar woofer build for my wifes '08 real similar to yours... any sags youve run into that you would like to share??
sweet build BTW


----------



## Mirage_Man

airseeker said:


> I am about to start a similar woofer build for my wifes '08 real similar to yours... any sags youve run into that you would like to share??
> sweet build BTW


I've pretty much shared everything along the way. Is there something specific you'd like to know?


----------



## airseeker

nah, not really... I have paid attention to all snags you have come across... great job tho man... can wait to see more


----------



## Mirage_Man

First here are some better pics from this AM with the good camera 






































OK as promised here are some build pics of the tweeter pods. 

I spent a considerable amount of time trying to get ponte to stretch right over the pods but no matter what I did there were wrinkles. So I went to the drug store and bought a $.99 pair of knee high stockings which as can see worked perfectly.










Once the stocking was stretched (very lightly stretched) and tacked around the edges with CA glue I trimmed the excess off. On the first pod I used polyester resin to saturate the stocking but it was too messy and took too long. One the second pod I used CA. All I needed was a semi-firm surface.




























The next step was to mix up a Duraglass and resin concoction and apply to the inside if the form making sure to get it into all the corners and crevasses.


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## Mirage_Man

I allowed that to kick and then applied a layer over the outer surface and sanded it once it hit the green stage. Once that was done I went over it with a skimming of Rage Gold and sanded again.


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## Mirage_Man

I don't think these are coming out too bad for my first ever set of sail pods .

Tonight I did a little more with some Rage and more sanding. Once satisfied I hit them with some high build gray primer. I will let them dry and probably leave them like that until I return from SBN. They're going to need some more sanding and possibly a little more Rage here and there before painting.


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## mattyjman

impressive work on the sail panels... 

using a darker primer will help you see bumps and dips a little bit better than a lighter primer... just a suggestion. really nice work thus far though


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## TheDavel

I should have looked at your thread before responding to your PM! Whoops, I was way behind the power curve on this one... those are looking great!


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## Mirage_Man

mattyjman said:


> impressive work on the sail panels...
> 
> using a darker primer will help you see bumps and dips a little bit better than a lighter primer... just a suggestion. really nice work thus far though


Good idea. I'll have to pick some up. Thanks!



TheDavel said:


> I should have looked at your thread before responding to your PM! Whoops, I was way behind the power curve on this one... those are looking great!


LOL, I just responded to your PM before checking the thread myself . Thanks, I used the CA glue method on the second pod after reading a post about how you do it.


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## Mirage_Man

I was just going back over my thread and I wanted to take a second and thank everyone on this and forums like this one that have and continue to share how to do all this stuff. I truly am grateful for the wealth of knowledge that is given so freely. Cheers guys! :beerchug:


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## Complacent_One

The other alternative, is a light coat of compatible black paint, when you sand, low spots will stay black...makes it much easier for spot filling!! 

I really admire your attention to detail on this build!! Keep up the great work!!


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## ecbmxer

Could always wrap them with vinyl. I painted and wrapped with vinyl, and IMO, the vinyl really made my pillars look OEM. Especially since you have leather seats, steering wheel, etc. They look great!


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## Mirage_Man

ecbmxer said:


> Could always wrap them with vinyl. I painted and wrapped with vinyl, and IMO, the vinyl really made my pillars look OEM. Especially since you have leather seats, steering wheel, etc. They look great!


Well, there ain't no way I can get vinyl down in around the drivers on these pods. The drivers themselves just barely fit. I do like the idea of vinyl however, I may make another set because I'm not so sure I like the way these are pointed. I'm getting some weird reflections off the glass to the left of me that almost feels like surround sound.


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## edouble101

Excellent craftsmanship. I really enjoy looking at your clear pictures.


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## Mirage_Man

Mirage_Man said:


> however, I may make another set because I'm so sure I like the way these are pointed. I'm getting some weird reflections off the glass to the left of me that almost feels like surround sound.


Well after a short tuning session last night by someone that knows a little more than me the weird surround anomaly seems to be fixed. Thank God! Can't wait to get a real experienced tuner in the car.


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## mark620

Great job on the pods.....You made it look real easy...We all know its not...Please let us know how those tweets really sound when your all tuned


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## Mirage_Man

mark620 said:


> Great job on the pods.....You made it look real easy...We all know its not...Please let us know how those tweets really sound when your all tuned


Thanks and will do :thumbsup:.

When I get a chance I'll post some pics of the pods with the drivers in and installed in the door. Heading back out to SBN shortly.


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## metalball

With the sail panels, did you need a certain cubic airspace? Seems like they are a bit on the larger side of the spectrum in size, but great attention to detail in forming them!


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## slowsedan01

It was great getting to meet you and see/hear the car in person. Great attention to detail. The very little I heard in the car sounded great. Keep up the awesome work!


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## Mirage_Man

metalball said:


> With the sail panels, did you need a certain cubic airspace? Seems like they are a bit on the larger side of the spectrum in size, but great attention to detail in forming them!


It was about positioning or angle.


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## Mirage_Man

slowsedan01 said:


> It was great getting to meet you and see/hear the car in person. Great attention to detail. The very little I heard in the car sounded great. Keep up the awesome work!


Great meeting both you and Sherri. Congrats again on takin 1st!


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## slowsedan01

Mirage_Man said:


> Great meeting both you and Sherri. Congrats again on takinh 1st!


That wasn't me!  I'm Darren- with the big old Acura boat that wasn't finished.


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## Mirage_Man

slowsedan01 said:


> That wasn't me!  I'm Darren- with the big old Acura boat that wasn't finished.


Whoops, that's right. Great meeting you too. Wish you could have hung around longer.


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## tulse

I just read this whole thread. Past about page 5, I was solidly in awe of your patience and work. Fantastic.


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## Mirage_Man

tulse said:


> I just read this whole thread. Past about page 5, I was solidly in awe of your patience and work. Fantastic.


Thanks man. Stay tuned there's certainly more to come. 

Here's a few pics of the tweeter pods from the driver's seat with the drivers installed. These may or may not stay. I am contemplating going 3-way or perhaps tweeter-less with a wide-band driver up on the dash. We'll see. If they do stay here I will be re-doing the pods to allow for vinyl wrapping. Obviously the pictures show the pods just painted with gray primer.


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## t3sn4f2

Looks good.

They have the illuminator screw in black if you are interested.

M3 Hex Head Screw for Small Illuminator Tweeters: Madisound Speaker Store


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## Mirage_Man

t3sn4f2 said:


> Looks good.
> 
> They have the illuminator screw in black if you are interested.
> 
> M3 Hex Head Screw for Small Illuminator Tweeters: Madisound Speaker Store


Thanks, I ran around for an hour the Friday of SBN looking for black screws that would fit. I ended up at Ace Hardware where they had some screws with painted black heads that fit pretty well. I will probably order some of those cap heads you linked to as well and see which I like better.


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## Thrill_House

Mirage_Man said:


> Thanks, I ran around for an hour the Friday of SBN looking for black screws that would fit. I ended up at Ace Hardware where they had some screws with painted black heads that fit pretty well. I will probably order some of those cap heads you linked to as well and see which I like better.


Haha, I ended up at ACE the night before SBN as well, grabbed some concrete screws for the canopy tent and some velcro for the dashmat. :laugh:


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## Thrill_House

Mirage_Man said:


> Thanks man. Stay tuned there's certainly more to come.
> 
> Here's a few pics of the tweeter pods from the driver's seat with the drivers installed. These may or may not stay. I am contemplating going 3-way or perhaps tweeter-less with a wide-band driver up on the dash. We'll see. If they do stay here I will be re-doing the pods to allow for vinyl wrapping. Obviously the pictures show the pods just painted with gray primer.


If/when you do decide to do a 3way setup I would highly recommend keeping the tweets in those locations and seeing how they sound with the mids mounted in the a pillars. This was the exact setup I ran this year at SBN in my Civic and it gave me a beautifully wide soundstage with extremely precise imaging and excellent depth. The great thing with having the tweets mounted to the sail panels is that you dont have to deal with any reflections typically and it will generally pull your stage width out beyond the pillars themselves.


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## Mirage_Man

Thrill_House said:


> If/when you do decide to do a 3way setup I would highly recommend keeping the tweets in those locations and seeing how they sound with the mids mounted in the a pillars. This was the exact setup I ran this year at SBN in my Civic and it gave me a beautifully wide soundstage with extremely precise imaging and excellent depth. The great thing with having the tweets mounted to the sail panels is that you dont have to deal with any reflections typically and it will generally pull your stage width out beyond the pillars themselves.


Yeah, I remember looking at your car and now regret not getting to listen to it. 

In the current location while I get a very wide stage the center is not very stable or precise. I would like the tweets to disappear but I get "the sound is coming from right there" effect if you know what I mean? Being a 2-way I'm currently crossing to them at 3.2 with a 24db slope. 

Where are you crossing to your tweets?


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## LDW3RD

Wow!! This is a awesome build. Your patience and engineering talent are remarkable, to say the least. Keep up the good work.


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## Thrill_House

Mirage_Man said:


> Yeah, I remember looking at your car and now regret not getting to listen to it.
> 
> In the current location while I get a very wide stage the center is not very stable or precise. I would like the tweets to disappear but I get "the sound is coming from right there" effect if you know what I mean? Being a 2-way I'm currently crossing to them at 3.2 with a 24db slope.
> 
> Where are you crossing to your tweets?


It could be that the reason that your tweet is so easily locateable is doing to it being so on axis to your ear. With my vehicle i found when i positioned the mids mostly off access and the tweets still fairly off access that the locations seemed to disappear more or less, it may not be the same in your car but thats what worked for me. I currently have my MR drivers playing from 250-6.3k at 12db and the tweets are from 6.3 on up and they are also sloped at 12db as well. I found that this combo gave me the the most defined imaging and the widest soundstage as well.


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## Mirage_Man

Thrill_House said:


> It could be that the reason that your tweet is so easily locateable is doing to it being so on axis to your ear. With my vehicle i found when i positioned the mids mostly off access and the tweets still fairly off access that the locations seemed to disappear more or less, it may not be the same in your car but thats what worked for me. I currently have my MR drivers playing from 250-6.3k at 12db and the tweets are from 6.3 on up and they are also sloped at 12db as well. I found that this combo gave me the the most defined imaging and the widest soundstage as well.


I will have to try them more off axis.

The wierd thing is that on the iasca test disc on the 7 drum hits I get the first three located at the left tweet then center, center r, right, far right.


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## Notloudenuf

Mirage_Man said:


> I will have to try them more off axis.
> 
> The wierd thing is that on the iasca test disc on the 7 drum hits I get the first three located at the left tweet then center, center r, right, far right.


Have you tried flipping the phase on 1 of your tweeters?


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## Mirage_Man

Notloudenuf said:


> Have you tried flipping the phase on 1 of your tweeters?


At some point I did but not while listening to that particular track. I have dialed in a center image with the t/a adjustments of the h701 which would I think accomplish the same thing?


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## southpawskater

Awesome build thread so far! Pretty amazing and detailed work. I got nothing accomplished at work for the past 2.5 hours but it’s ok that’s what Mondays are for right?


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## Mirage_Man

LDW3RD said:


> Wow!! This is a awesome build. Your patience and engineering talent are remarkable, to say the least. Keep up the good work.





southpawskater said:


> Awesome build thread so far! Pretty amazing and detailed work. I got nothing accomplished at work for the past 2.5 hours but it’s ok that’s what Mondays are for right?


Holy Schnikeez, is that how long it takes to read this thread? 

Thanks for the props guys.


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## DaCid

Mirage_Man said:


> Holy Schnikeez, is that how long it takes to read this thread?
> 
> Thanks for the props guys.


That seems pretty accurate..... But if I try to go back and see how you did something specific so I can "copy" it for my own project it takes another 15-30 minutes searching for it. This thread needs tabs for specific projects! :laugh:


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## Mirage_Man

DaCid said:


> That seems pretty accurate..... But if I try to go back and see how you did something specific so I can "copy" it for my own project it takes another 15-30 minutes searching for it. This thread needs tabs for specific projects! :laugh:


LOL! Make sure you set your "Posts per page" in the "User CP" to the maximum. That way there aren't as many pages to wade through. For instance I have 14 listed total.


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## joe89

Your build convinced me to register on this forum, if for nothing else, but to praise you for your excellent craftsmanship and to thank you for taking the time to share. Keep up the good work!


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## alternativesurfer

Stupid question, but when you were aligning your tweeters with the laser pointer, at what point in the car did you aim both of them?
Excellent build!


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## Mirage_Man

alternativesurfer said:


> Stupid question, but when you were aligning your tweeters with the laser pointer, at what point in the car did you aim both of them?
> Excellent build!


Well the idea is to point them so they are both the same degree off axis from your head. Usually this means about a foot behind your head in the middle of the head liner. This is what I was told by a highly esteemed SQ master. Now whether or not it will work in every situation remains to be seen. In fact I may change the way my tweeters are aimed to achieve better imaging at the expense of closer freq response from both sides. It's all trade-offs in car audio.


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## Matt R

Mirage_Man said:


> Well the idea is to point them so they are both the same degree off axis from your head. Usually this means about a foot behind your head in the middle of the head liner. This is what I was told by a highly esteemed SQ master. Now whether or not it will work in every situation remains to be seen. In fact I may change the way my tweeters are aimed to achieve better imaging at the expense of closer freq response from both sides. It's all trade-offs in car audio.


Better imaging is going to be achieved easier with the l/r frequency response being closer to the same.

I would guess the dyn being more off axis with a higher crossover is causing more imaging problems. I wouldnt try to cross the dyns any higher than 3.6k or maybe even 3.2k. They dont play high enough to use off axis in the doors to 6k. 

The pods look good man, you should texture and paint them. Look for some SEM texture and Landau Black, thats what I like to use.


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## Mirage_Man

Matt R said:


> Better imaging is going to be achieved easier with the l/r frequency response being closer to the same.
> 
> I would guess the dyn being more off axis with a higher crossover is causing more imaging problems. I wouldnt try to cross the dyns any higher than 3.6k or maybe even 3.2k. They dont play high enough to use off axis in the doors to 6k.
> 
> The pods look good man, you should texture and paint them. Look for some SEM texture and Landau Black, thats what I like to use.


What's up Matt. I am crossing them at 3.2k with a 24bd slope as a matter of fact. Maybe it's my lack of tuning experience but I just can't get a solid non-wavering center image just yet. Don't get me wrong it's decent (albeit large and not razor sharp) there's just some times where it will wander. Like I said in an earlier post "The weird thing is that on the iasca test disc on the 7 drum hits I get the first three located _at_ the left tweet then center, center r, right, far right."

I really wish you could have given it a listen at Daytona but I know how crazy it was for you judging. 

What kind of texture do you recommend? Cause I was thinking about making another set and wrapping them in vinyl.

Edit: just read you said _SEM_ texture...doh!


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## Matt R

SEM is the name brand of texture and paint. You can usually find it at autobody supply and upholstery shops or online. 

Quit listening to the drum beats! ;~) (prolly means your left is louder than your right at the fundamental frequency of the drum beat, if your T/A is close enough to correct)

I thought I read above that you had the dyns crossed at 6300, I guess not. Once you get the left/right balance on the money, you'll get good imaging. Wandering imageing is almost always an imbalance in freq response l/r. Improper phasing can cause a general lack of focus too. One of the biggest problems people have is changing their setup when its not right, right off the bat. It takes time to tune a system in unless you have lots of experience and even then too.

In short, frequency balance is what you need!!!


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## Mirage_Man

Matt R said:


> SEM is the name brand of texture and paint. You can usually find it at autobody supply and upholstery shops or online.
> 
> Quit listening to the drum beats! ;~) (prolly means your left is louder than your right at the fundamental frequency of the drum beat, if your T/A is close enough to correct)
> 
> I thought I read above that you had the dyns crossed at 6300, I guess not. Once you get the left/right balance on the money, you'll get good imaging. Wandering imageing is almost always an imbalance in freq response l/r. Improper phasing can cause a general lack of focus too. One of the biggest problems people have is changing their setup when its not right, right off the bat. It takes time to tune a system in unless you have lots of experience and even then too.
> 
> In short, frequency balance is what you need!!!


OK, I'm not gonna give up with the current locations just yet then . Although I am already planning the 3-way .

I was fortunate enough to make a few new friends at SBN. One of them being Turbo5upra who was kind enough to lend me his Behringer mic/ and mic-mate to give a go with my laptop and TrueRTA. I did a quick level matching with an RTA ap on my phone but maybe the more accurate mic will produce better results. It will be nice to _see_ the overall response of the set up too.


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## metalball

Probably the mic in your phone isn't sensitive enough, compared to a dedicated one.


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## timbo2

LOVE


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## 328iBMW

Just read it all. Thanks! Would you do the sound deadening all over again?


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## Mirage_Man

328iBMW said:


> Just read it all. Thanks! Would you do the sound deadening all over again?


Yes, I would. Although it would go much faster now as I learned quite a bit along the way the first time.

Oh and BTW for those wondering I still have not finished the car. I still need to do the trim panels for the trunk.


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## scooter99

Well.............................WHAT'S THE HOLD UP!?! oke:


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## trojan fan

scooter99 said:


> Well.............................WHAT'S THE HOLD UP!?! oke:


Hey scooter, you're one to talk, i was thinking the same about your build:surprised:


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## MatthewB

Damn I think my keyboard is crapping out, must be some drool down in there or something. Wicked build man.'I'm rocking the same car and i guess its time to get to work. An new pics?


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## req

yep. just read this whole thread. 

awesome job dude.


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## pcabinatan

sub'd
great work


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## jrplz

Mirage_Man said:


> This AM I worked on attaching the passenger FG panels. Also drilling and cutting the holes for the wire harnesses to pass through. Just about done with the passenger side. Just need to notch out the larger panel for the door latch/lock cables.


BUMP ! BUMP ! BUMP! great work wow going to try this ! old thread but it deserves a bump


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## iskandaloza

Very Nice work!! Kudos!!


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## WAR Machine

This is a really good build man... Time, patience and attention to detail... I love it... 

Sub'ed


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## luisc202

Awesome build man. I just picked up a new 2014 Accord Sedan and this gives me ideas. I am going with 2 10W6V3's though since I already bought them. 

BEAUTIFUL BUILD........


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## SWINE

subscribed


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## Huckleberry Sound

UPDATES?


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## shabaan

Very Very good build!


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