# Thinking of opening a shop, yay or nay?



## JKashat (Nov 19, 2009)

Im 36, and have been into car audio since the late 80's. I worked as a sales person at a local chain, Mickey Shorr, in the late 90's for a couple years. Since then, me and a close friend, who I actually used to work at Mickey's, have talked about opening a shop and doing it the way we thought it should be. My question is now, in this day and age, with the economy being what it is, should I do it? I mean, factory system are so much better than they used to be. Besides here on DIYMA and a couple people I know, no one seems to be into it anymore. I'd like to do a High-End shop with perhaps Audision/Hertz, JL Audio, Alpine, Pioneer, maybe Kenwood and others. I realize I'd also need lower to mid-level stuff as my bread and butter too. I have access locally through a distributor to sell, JL Audio, Pioneer, Soundstream, HID kits, and other stuff. What do you guys think? Is this a dying business/industry or is there still money to be made? Any/all comments are appreciated. Thanks!


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## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

we have 1 actual shop in my area and they only really stay in business thanks to installs. not so much sales of products. they don't even have much in there actually but JL is their main product.
I'm sure theres some money to be made, especially if you can advertise in a way to get people excited into upgrading their OEM system. I don't even know too many people personally who really care much about it, the few with systems got them used, the others are more like "huh?" when the idea of a good sq system comes up or its too pricey, too much trouble, don't have time..etc.

but you'll never know till you try. If you can afford to try it, i say follow your passion, get it on facebook, advertise whereever possible. get the idea of bringing some life to music into peoples heads.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I have a couple of friends who own shops, one in Pa and one in Md. The one in Md stays afloat and does well via tinting windows and contract work with local car dealerships. His stereo business is now a thing to do every so often and usually entails a headunit and 4 speakers or adding a sub to an OEM. The one in Pa stays afloat doing contract work with local dealers installing alarms and lojack type systems. While he does do a fair amount of stereo work its not custom or highend by any means.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

i would only recommend opening a business if you can afford to lose your investment if it fails. if you are borrowing money, etc to make it happen i would not try it.


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## Phreaxer (Oct 8, 2005)

Sadly, I don't think now is the time, especially knowing the little bit I know of the MI economy, let alone the rest of the country


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## FartinInTheTub (May 25, 2010)

I would make sure you specialize in window tinting, auto security and accessories and possible customizations. Custom car audio by appointment will be scarce but as long as you are good at what you do it will trickle in by word of mouth. These are tough times... It's risky but it can be accomplished if you have a lot of services to offer.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

Good advice in this thread - if you are going to be profitable in this business, you aren't going to accomplish it in SE Michigan with high-end autosound alone.

Two reasons: 

#1 - the vast majority of enthusiasts who care enough about high-fidelity mobile audio to spend the kind of money that it would take to accomplish worthwhile results would rather Do The Work Themselves - partly because of the hobbyist aspect of the pastime, but mostly because we don't trust anybody else to live up to our individual standards.

Hell, I don't even live up to my own standards some days.

Anyway, the limited number of people that have both the disposable income and the willingness to let a shop have at it are so so few and far between that I think you would be hard pressed to turn a profit.



#2 - If you did decide to move forward, keep in mind that the most successful independent shops make the majority of their money these days through contract work with car dealerships and selling/installing convenience products for the masses.

Gone are the days when you could make your margins for the month by selling one car-full of amplifiers at such a high prices that it would bankrupt some small countries.

Now, it's all about catering to the impulsive whims of the market more so them ever. Hardly anybody is willing to spend more money for "quality" equipment when there are so many inexpensive alternatives available, especially since they are almost exclusively all made overseas.


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## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

I am in Dayton OH.... also hit really hard with the economy with NCR pulling out & GM closing a truck plan. 

However...... south of town where I live in Centerville there are 3 indy shops withing a few miles of each other. One of the shops has been around since the 80's & has changed hands two times, after the original franchise closed (they had 5-6 stores) a small chain from Akron area (I think) opend it up & lasted a year or so before a employe took it over & changed the name again. They stay really busy.

The 2nd shop started in the early 90's (I purchased my Adcom amps there back then from the original owned, he won a lottery & purchased a stereo shop... opend the one south of Dayton). He did reallly.... really well.... sold a ton of stuff.... but wanted out of Dayton since he opend up a store in Cincy. Sold it for a LOT more then it's worth & they new owned lasted a year or so before it closed. Several years later another small Cincy chain purchased the location & they are steady.......

The last shop that's close use to work at the first store I mentioned. Probably 5 or so years ago they opend up & stay very busy. They spend a lot in marketing & always have a lot going on.

None of the stores carry several brands, they each carry one deck manufacturer & a few speaker/subs etc. Nothing really high end & also nothing like what best buy carries...... 

I think it's hard for those of us who do not live in your area to know if it would work. Owning your own company can be great.... but it cal also be a complete PITA..... Depending on how larger your area is, & the money people have it could work...... but from chatting with the local shops not many people spend money on high end stuff  It's still weird that the best alpine deck is $350.... & Eclipse is no longer..... man I miss Denon


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

There are two stores in my small town. We are located next to a lake and one of the stores makes their money off of marine installs, window tint and alittle security. The owner says they rarely ever do a custom install anymore. Most is done with prefab boxes now. They carry J-L, Memphiss and Planett Audio. 
The other store caters mostly to the younger SPL crowd and has a questionable reputation mainly due to some of the crowd that hangs out there. Not exactly sure what they carry. Probably not authorized and simply buy from a distributor. They do have some used equipment for sale.

With the economy as it is and the availability of equipment on Fleabay and online stores (Sonic, Car Audio Deals, etc.), you'll have a tough go of it. I mean, can you make a living off of headunit installs? No. 
If you can do marine installs, window tint, security, maybe even alittle home audio and security, get hooked up with local car lots, maybe even dabble in performance add ons for late model import and domestic, you might make it work.
I would look long and hard at your market, your bank account and where you want to be with this in ten years. Good luck with whatever you decide!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i echo a lot of the sentiments raised above, having had a real brick and motar shop for a coupla years and a lot of my friends now are shop owners.

in this day and age, opening a brand new shop without a pre-built reputation is extremely tough...i would only consider it if you can:


1. have enough outright funding to secure a good location, can do the buy-in on major brands that attract people such as JL alpine, etc. perhaps not brands that you want to do all the time, but the brands that naturally bring people in. also enough money to pay your bills for at least 6 months even when ZERO work comes in.

2. work out an iron clad contract agreement with your friend before hand, i think going into business with a friend or relative is risky enough, and particular bad when it comes to car audio. a few months in, you may find that the real world of retail car audio is nothing like what you and your friend envisioned, money becomes tight, arguments start...and it goes down hill from there...i have seen it so many times its not even funny, and you want to be totally honest with each other, to try and avoid not only loosing your business, but also your friendship.

3. are confident enough in your abilities in install, this is very important...i have seen a few guys open up shop becuase they do really good work on a handful of cars for themselves and their friends...but thats not what retail is all about. you cant spend a few months on a customers car, with trial and error, eventually coming to a nice result. you need to be speedy yet detailed, and do it right the first time so that the customer is happy, and ensure that it doesnt break down and he comes back, frustrated, all the time. one bad customer can literally ruin your business in this age of "word of keyboard"

4. as mentioned above, its VERY hard for a high end custom car audio shop to exist solely or even majority wise...on HIGH END CUSTOM CAR AUDIO...looking at the shops that do okay in this arena, they are usually located in very affluent areas, have long long built a rep for these type of work...other wise, its quantity that makes you money, meaning a shop that does a ton of remote starts, alarms, backup camera/beepers, and deck-n-four installs all day will make a lot more money than custom installs.you have to be prepared to sacrifice your vision.

5. stop saying the phrase "doing it the way we thought it should be", its sad...but often true that doing car audio the way it should be also means a way to go broke...when you have a true shop, unless you are loaded and have no problem loosing money and just do this for fun...its the overhead that drives your motives.


there are many other factors, and there is a reason why i would prolly not consider opening a real shop ever again, unless i win the lottery and feel like i can just blow a few million and still keep my fun of working on cars. I know what i have said, along with many people's post above, sounds discouraging, but trust me from experience, its better to know and think this stuff before you spend a penny.


if you want a piece of positive advice on what to do if you still want to open up a shop that caters to custom car audio.

1. find a really really in expensive location, hell free if possible. if your or your friends place have a big piece of land, build a big garage space that can fit a coupla cars with a wood room. so this way, once its built, there is almost no overhead. basically find as cheap of a place as possible, forgoe on big fancy office space, demo and waiting room, just ensure you have enough space to properly work on a car.

2. build a few cars to act as your calling card. nothing attracts new potential clients than a true physical product rolling around out there, advertising your abilities...sometimes they get people in when they havent even seen that car, they just heard their buddy tell them all about it. Telling people how great you are or even showing a few pics doesnt compare to having physical products out there.

3. start advertising yourself on line, i think in this day and age, you have to use the internet to your advantage...but also becareful as its a double edged sword, if you arent careful, the web can turn on your in an instant, and then it will have done damage to your rep that cannot be fixed...just look at the install horror stories or online flame wars that have had a huge effect on a shop or even manufacturers business.

anyway, thats my two bits...sorry for the long post, i get asked "why dont you open up a shop" on a weekly basis, so i have had a lot of time to think about it


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

oh one more thing to add:

DO NOT open up a shop based on family and friends telling you "oh dude, you are awesome! open up a shop and we will come and refer a ton of friends to go, you will rock!" 

often, you will find that once you do open, these friends either wont come much at all, or when they do come and refer friends, they all come in wanting huge price breaks and name drop.

if these folks truly want to support you, take a deposit from them and book their cars on the schedule for when you open up...then you will see who truly wants to help and who is just hoo-rahing


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## JKashat (Nov 19, 2009)

I think I have officially been discouraged...


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Hasn't been said much in this thread, but are you ready to battle the Internet? Pricing is unbelievably low online, many times barely or lower below dealer cost.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Update?


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## JKashat (Nov 19, 2009)

I figured I'd match online prices if they were from AUthorized online retailers. Otherwise, I pitch the advantages of buying from a Brick & Mortar Shop vs. Online, usually gray market retailers with no warranty and that type of thing.

As of now, as much as I'd love to pursue this idea, I don't think it'll go anywhere past this thread anymore.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Have yu considered being both a car and home audio dealer/installer?


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## JKashat (Nov 19, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> Have yu considered being both a car and home audio dealer/installer?


Not really, as I'm honestly not nearly as knowledgeable as I think I would need to be for Home Audio and there are already a lot of Audio Shops around that are already established.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

K.

I was just thinking that you might be more able to stay afloat if you can diversify a bit. 

I'd love to open up a home/auto A/V store but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't succeed in my area. We have shops come and go pretty regularly. They typically last no longer than 1.5 years. The thing is, none of them seem knowledgeable past how to install a sub/amp. When you prod them for real information, they just don't know or tell you something incredibly wrong. It's rare you have a shop/seller who knows what they're talking about on a more in depth level. That said, I can't install for **** so while I may be able to talk the talk, I'd scare them off with my install book. And finding a good installer would probably be easier said than done.

Edit:
Actually, I forget about Audio X in Florence. Steve Cook owns that place and he's both knowledgeable and incredibly skilled. His car(s) are some of the best sounding and looking out there; hands down. He's crushed SPL records, then won MECA worlds in SQ. But, I'd consider him an exception to the large retail side of car audio/video.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Porsche said:


> i would only recommend opening a business if you can afford to lose your investment if it fails. if you are borrowing money, etc to make it happen i would not try it.


x2...exactly....I would tell you the same thing especially if you've never owned a business before


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## Trade-n-games (Nov 25, 2008)

MY advice/ words of wisdom. Build a business that works for you and you not for it or its just a job that has long hours and not much pay if any. Look at your cost,Rent , Insurance, employee, phone, electric, internet, trash,shop supplies like stuff to clean bathroom and windows and thermal paper for credit card machine, etc. Add it all up and see how much you need to make each day. my retail store "not car stuff" needs to make at least $250 a day to really break even and that needs to be profit or it does not count. ]
Thing is if you feel the need to ask questions like this that should be your answer to not do it.


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

I had my shop full time for almost 5 years until I got into my current career.

Now I have the luxury of only working part time (well my wife says it my second full time job) and doing things enjoy, for the most part.

Here is what I learned:
When I was only doing car audio it was a hustle, I kept busy with dealer work but they always always always payed late.

I was in business with friends and didn't make a real agreement, that went badly.

It's hard to make money on equipment due to people selling it online at what may be at or even lower than your "cost".

All your friends and referrals dont want to pay for ANYTHING! they think since they sent some business, no matter how small, it warrants free work.

It's not just doing installs, there is book keeping, promotions, meetings, sales calls, etc.

I loved doing my shop full time, but when I calculated my hourly wage, it was around $10 per hour.

Ultimately its what will work best in your market an with your skill set. But you have to be in a position to lose money and work your butt off for little money.


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## prettysweetsounds (Jul 26, 2011)

dieing business?

Dead business...


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

prettysweetsounds said:


> dieing business?
> 
> Dead business...


its definitely not dead, but very difficult.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

I hope you have a second job with a lot of disposable income


I would say hey


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## Sleeves (Oct 22, 2010)

I worked in car audio as a full time job for well over a decade now and I've owned my own shop for a bit over a year now. There has been some really excellent advice in here, not the least of which was (please excuse the para-phrasing):

"Do not open a business if you don't have the money to lose" There are plenty of things in life worth taking a risk on, but borrowing money to start a car audio business these days is very low on that list. This is closely related to:

"Avoid partnerships without very comprehensive documentation". A partnership is another form of borrowing money and obviously if the business becomes in dire straights it is highly likely that the partnership/friendship will take a severe blow. I've seen one business owner go through 3 partnerships over about 15 years. The first split in to 2 businesses that are still running but not particularly friendly. The last 2 partnerships ended by alienating the incoming partner after a few years each and none of them seem to be on speaking terms anymore.

"Don't let others 'Hype you up' into starting a business". Sadly, a lot of the ones who remind you how great you are do this while thinking how cool it's going to be when you are "Hooking them up" for all that positive publicity they plan on giving you. The reality usually becomes they attempt to advertise your work but are incapable of generating any referral business for you at or above the level of what you did for them.

It's terrific if you are self-motivated to "Do car audio the right way", but so are a lot of others. Although there always seems to be *at least* one shop in each town (assuming your town has more than one shop) that just pushes out whatever makes money without any real consideration or customization to specific customer's needs (or what should be general industry standards), there is usually at least one shop that does try to provide good personalized customer service and products that suit specific needs and a decent level of technical expertise. Listening to all the rants on here you would not think that this is the case, but we all know how dissatisfied customers are ten times more vocal than satisfied ones.

"Diversity is the key to success (or survival)". I get reminded on a weekly basis by my vendors of how their guys in other towns are keeping their stores afloat by tinting windows and branching out in to other car accessories. A family conflict eliminates window tinting as an option for myself so I've ventured slightly in to HID lighting in an attempt to bring in some extra income. If you're anything like me, you'll feel a little bit of your soul being sapped away every time every time you concede in doing something more car-related than audio related. 

Your best car audio shop owners are the ones who got in the business because they loved music and thought it would be the best career ever to get to help people upgrade their listening experience in their cars. These are the people that when they finish a system they designed and installed for a customer you have a hard time telling which one is having more fun listening to it. These are not the times for that type of person anymore. Your average "high end" customer nowadays does not acknowledge that your time and experience is worth money so they come in, quiz you for 30 minutes to an hour, then either buy what you recommended online or bring back print outs and give you the "opportunity" to match the online prices. By the time I take in to account the massive amounts of time I waste trying to educate people in order to earn their business and then the drastically reduced margins due to trying to remain somewhat competitive with what is available online it boils down to I was making more money per hour for the year and a half that I worked at Best Buy (I was there because the specialist shop where I worked slowly spiraled out of existence due to the recession and reasons stated above). 

I love car audio as much as anyone and I am glad that I own my business now, but unless you have the perfect storm of start up conditions I really can't recommend trying to open up your own. I'm currently in the process of training so that I can get a job doing shift work at a local factory that builds jet fuselages so I don't have to depend on my stereo shop for income and I can actually have benefits again. At least that way I can afford not to compromise my principles at my store anymore for the sake of some retarded new trend (PA horns in the grills of cars or 6 pairs of $20 tweeters run off the radio anyone?).


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

As stated before home audio/automation and car audio seems to be a winning combo....


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

Sleeves said:


> I worked in car audio as a full time job for well over a decade now and I've owned my own shop for a bit over a year now. There has been some really excellent advice in here, not the least of which was (please excuse the para-phrasing):
> 
> "Do not open a business if you don't have the money to lose" There are plenty of things in life worth taking a risk on, but borrowing money to start a car audio business these days is very low on that list. This is closely related to:
> 
> ...


 
Well said!

I read nothing other than the post I quoted so what I am about to say might not be required for the OP, but might have some usefulnes to anyone else asking the same question tomorrow or a year from now.

*Another point to be made that I am a FIRM advocate of:*

Just becuase you know how to grill a good burger, does not mean that you should open up a resturant.

Too many people think that becuae they are well versed in a skill or trade that that somehow they will be good at running a business.
If you have never managed a car audio shop, the you probably have little business starting your own. Knowing how to install fabricate and tune has absolutely NOTHING to do with owning a car audio shop.

Remember, once you own a shop, you are no longer an installer. You are no longer a fabricator, you are no longer an audio enthusiast. You are a business owner with a business to run, people, inventory accounts vendors, customers and employees to manage. You become manager, and if you have never managed any of these things, you will be in for a rude awakening.

So my question to everyone that comes to me for business advice, is always the same:
What experience do you have managing a business similar to the one you want to start? If the answer is none, then the answer is no.


ANT


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

not to mention, someone will always want some stuff for free


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

double post for some reason


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## pjc (May 3, 2009)

I had my own business building cabinets, furniture, and smaller odd jobs if needed. It was really nice at first to work for myself. But as time went on I wasnt able to ever leave it behind. Work was always on my mind. We were out on a motorcycle ride one day and my buddy asked what I think about when we ride and I said "work." He was puzzled and said that was the last thing he ever thought about...he had a 8-5 job unlike me. Point being, in just got to a point were I felt guilty everytime I wasnt working because money wasnt coming in.
I randomly decided to be a paramedic one day, and never looked back. I work 10 days a month and make fantastic money doing it, and I ABSOLUTELY love what I do now. Just my 2 cents.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

pjc said:


> ...and I ABSOLUTELY love what I do now.


As cliche` as it sounds that is the secret right there.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

My take on this totally different. In poorer areas I would think they would spend more on this stuff because it makes them forget about how bad times really are in their neighborhood. Case in point in a lot of poorer areas you see people dressed from head to toe in Gucci, Prada, Air Jordans etc. because that's what is important to them. 

An economoist was on tv the other week talking about this saying that instead getting depressed and relying on drugs a lot of people in poorer areas buy expensive visual gifts. Yes I know some of them are drug dealers, but none the less there are people that have been raised and it's almost like their heritage. 

They don't bat an eyelash at spending $80 on a pair of jeans soi what about a stereo to pimp their ride out? 

Where's Xzibit when you need him?


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## Mr12voltwires (Feb 1, 2010)

If you already have a customer base, a good/trustworthy staff, easy to get to retail location and some business experience, I'd go for it. Know what your fixed operating costs will be before you do anything. You know from being around the business since the '80s that product margins and price points are in the toilet - the 50% margin on a $599 7903 are LONG GONE. 

Another consideration is the the car manufacturers have made it very difficult to economically integrate aftermarket items these days. For the 'average joe' the newest OEM stuff sounds pretty good.

As long as you can modify your business to follow market changes, you might still do well for yourself.

I live in the Northeast, so our C/A season is much shorter. That's why I worked so hard to get out of the industry years ago. It was great back in the '80s & '90s. It's better now as a hobby. 

Just my two cents. Best of luck with whatever decision you make.


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## Mr12voltwires (Feb 1, 2010)

pjc said:


> I had my own business building cabinets, furniture, and smaller odd jobs if needed. It was really nice at first to work for myself. But as time went on I wasnt able to ever leave it behind. Work was always on my mind. We were out on a motorcycle ride one day and my buddy asked what I think about when we ride and I said "work." He was puzzled and said that was the last thing he ever thought about...he had a 8-5 job unlike me. Point being, in just got to a point were I felt guilty everytime I wasnt working because money wasnt coming in.
> I randomly decided to be a paramedic one day, and never looked back. I work 10 days a month and make fantastic money doing it, and I ABSOLUTELY love what I do now. Just my 2 cents.


I'm glad there are places where MEDICS are paid well. I'm a Firefighter in MA and one of the private ambulance medics told me what they were paid per hour. I was shocked, I couldn't pay my mortgage. Good luck and stay safe.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

JKashat said:


> I figured I'd match online prices if they were from AUthorized online retailers. Otherwise, I pitch the advantages of buying from a Brick & Mortar Shop vs. Online, usually gray market retailers with no warranty and that type of thing.
> 
> As of now, as much as I'd love to pursue this idea, I don't think it'll go anywhere past this thread anymore.


Here's what I've learned over the years (and with some research on opening my own shop.):

People don't care about warranty.
People don't know the difference between a brick & mortar warranty vs. a "squaretrade" type warranty on eBay.
People don't want to have things explained. They want quick, easy and cheap.
I figure I'd need at least $100k to start it up and make it through the first year.
I've already got a ton of info planned out and a completely designed a new display board, (except the switching unit).

And like real estate, it's all about location, location, location. You don't want to be in the market between Car Tunes and Mickey's...since Mark started a price war.

Jay


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## JKashat (Nov 19, 2009)

JayinMI said:


> Here's what I've learned over the years (and with some research on opening my own shop.):
> 
> People don't care about warranty.
> People don't know the difference between a brick & mortar warranty vs. a "squaretrade" type warranty on eBay.
> ...


You and Elowe were first on my mind as far as possible partners or managers.


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