# Speaker Wire



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

What gauge wire is everyone using for their mids/highs and where are you sourcing it from? Also, how are you configuring the "pulls" color wise? Is there a simplified system to help in knowing what is what?


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

usually 16 can handle pretty much any normal amount of power you can throw at it. over 200 watts id bump it up to 14, and then 12 for even more over that


----------



## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

To keep things organized, the most simple way I've found is to label both ends of each run as you run them, one at a time. At any given time there will be only one wire without a label on it, and you'll know what it is. It can be as simple as tying a single overhand knot in the positive side of the wire, or using a sharpie, or as fancy as printing labels onto heat-shrink (super duper cool if you have access to a tool like that, also super expensive for what it does).

I like to borrow from established schemes such as anything with a red stripe is positive, or anything with a black stripe is negative. If there is no such red or white, sometimes there is writing on one half of the speaker wire with a symbol like + somewhere that you can use. Sometimes there is no text and the insulation jacket will have a stripe molded into one side of it.

To keep one wire run separate from another, use the universal car audio wiring color code if you can, or use the resistor color code if you know it, or the telephone color code if you know it, or colors of the rainbow from red through violet or whatever other system that makes sense. Just make sure you always use that combination for everything you wire every time everywhere otherwise it gets super confusing real fast.

If all else fails, you can pick up a wire toner kit for telephone or cat5 cables. One half has alligator clips and a small RJ11 plug on it that puts a tone onto whatever it's connected to. The other half is an inductive pickup that can "sniff" out any noise on any wire and it'll narrow down the wire you have the tone on real fast. They are priceless when you're dealing with bundles of wires or over a long distance and have saved me a ton of time. The sniffer tool can also sound out any audio-frequency signal in any cable, such as in an rca cable or speaker cable if you're playing audio into it which can sometimes be handy if you don't remember which goes where.

Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-Networks-PRO3000F60-KIT-Tone-Probe/dp/B000FTADX0/


----------



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

Justin Zazzi said:


> To keep things organized, the most simple way I've found is to label both ends of each run as you run them, one at a time. At any given time there will be only one wire without a label on it, and you'll know what it is. It can be as simple as tying a single overhand knot in the positive side of the wire, or using a sharpie, or as fancy as printing labels onto heat-shrink (super duper cool if you have access to a tool like that, also super expensive for what it does).
> 
> I like to borrow from established schemes such as anything with a red stripe is positive, or anything with a black stripe is negative. If there is no such red or white, sometimes there is writing on one half of the speaker wire with a symbol like + somewhere that you can use. Sometimes there is no text and the insulation jacket will have a stripe molded into one side of it.
> 
> ...


Great info. Thanks for the post.


----------



## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

I don't run ANY wire that is not marked. It needs to be either bi-color or different shapes like Stinger pro. The positive sheath is square and the negative is round. Really neat. I try not to run anything smaller than 12 gauge for anything. I'm running Stinger Pro 10 gauge throughout my build now. I run the 10 gauge from the amp directly to the rear speakers and the front crossovers, and then from the X-over to the woofer.(https://stingerelectronics.com/catalog/wire/spw512bk) Since its a bit rigid and would not lay down super flat or bend easily, I decided to use some Sky Hi audio OFC wire when I just upgraded to 3 ways. https://www.amazon.com/Speaker-Car-Audio-Sky-High/dp/B00MR5ZC6S I run the 16 gauge from the X-over to the mid drivers and the tweeters. Neither of the runs were over 3 ft, so I wasn't worried about signal degradation until about 6'. Sounds awesome.


----------



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> usually 16 can handle pretty much any normal amount of power you can throw at it. over 200 watts id bump it up to 14, and then 12 for even more over that


Thanks for the info Nick. I ordered 200ft of 14ga.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I used 16g 4-way flat trailer wire in two different trucks with no issues. Color coded for mids and highs. Even run 16 for the sub. I don't see any reason to run over 16g for the most part. I'm running the NVX 16g throughout and it's nice wire. Will go back to 4-way flat trailer wire next time because the jacket is tough and low profile.


----------



## GMCtrk (Apr 14, 2018)

I did my entire vehicle in JL 12 gauge. Looking back, probably overkill but do it once and never worry about it again. The JL wire is colored and labeled + and -. I also wrote with sharpie on the ends what it was hooked up to.


----------



## AlexP (Jul 26, 2018)

16g or 14g Should be enough for everything (OFC)


----------



## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

I ran 16 gauge wire I ordered from Crutchfield for both of my builds. The look/feel of the wire/insulation seemed very high quality. However, the first order I made the wire was two colors (white and black), but then I re-ordered and it was all black. No big deal, but the two-color is more convenient. 

Once I determine the length and make the cuts on the work bench, I just use masking tape "flags" on both ends of the wire and give it a number with a sharpie. 

In an emergency, if you ever lose track of which is which after the install, you can use a DVOM set to the continuity test/beep test to figure it out again. 

I now see at various stores (HD/Walmart) that there are packs of multi-colored electrical tape with 5 or 6 colors. If I do anymore builds, I might just color code the wires instead of the labeled masking tape flags. 

But just keep the DVOM trick in mind. If you lose track, all is not lost.


----------



## 04quadcab (Dec 31, 2017)

I used stinger speedwire from my 4 channel amp into the factory harness then into coaxial speakers in my door. 

I have a love-hate relationship with speedwire. It makes the installation super easy. It's just one run of wire and it is color coded to match the standard aftermarket speaker colors. The 9 wires are wrapped in another layer of insulation, I like knowing that I have that extra layer to protect the conductor.

But it is 18 gauge wire. The amplifier I'm running is 75 Watts RMS Max per Channel. I'm not pushing it hard. But my calculations tell me that I'm butting up against the maximum amount of voltage that this setup can handle. If I were to run the amp at 2 ohms it would be too much for the wire. 

I ultimately decided that it was worth the compromise after watching the five star car stereo YouTube channel. Those guys do this exact thing on many of their installs. There's also no easy way to fish speaker wire into my doors. Is this the best way to do things? I don't think it is. would this be a good idea if I were pushing more than a hundred watts to each channel? Absolutely not. I'm currently saving up so I can upgrade my front stage. At that point I'm going to have to run new speaker wire and figure out how to get some thicker wire into the doors.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

I like this stuff too. Once you see this stuff exposed to the elements as the factory wire on tractors and combines it makes even more sense


----------



## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

04quadcab said:


> I used stinger speedwire from my 4 channel amp into the factory harness then into coaxial speakers in my door.
> 
> I have a love-hate relationship with speedwire. It makes the installation super easy. It's just one run of wire and it is color coded to match the standard aftermarket speaker colors. The 9 wires are wrapped in another layer of insulation, I like knowing that I have that extra layer to protect the conductor.
> 
> ...




I'm pretty much in the same boat with how I ran my wires. I didn't use speed wire, but I did the same trick... ran 16 gauge Crutchfield wires from my amp then connected them into the factory wires right behind the HU. 

Still urks me that I did it that way and my plan is, like you, to probably end up going with an active front stage and, at that time, do some legit speaker wire runs right from the amp to the doors. 

I did this in both my vehicles. I'll have to look at them again, but I don't thing it'd be that big a PITA to run the wires through the doors. 

In hindsight, I wish I would have just done it right the first time. Works/sounds fine and all, but I like going the extra mile to make it legit and I compromised this step.


----------



## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

Depends on power - I say 150 is the threshold of upgrading from factory. Anything less save your money.


----------



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

Found this 12 ga on ebay earlier. Whats your opinion on it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-GAUGE-W...00-BLACK-PRIMARY-AWG-COPPER-CLAD/272558380368


----------



## POLKAT (Jan 10, 2007)

Gump_Runner said:


> Found this 12 ga on ebay earlier. Whats your opinion on it.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-GAUGE-W...00-BLACK-PRIMARY-AWG-COPPER-CLAD/272558380368


That wire is copper clad aluminium. Go with copper (OFC) wire from Monoprice.com

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023903&p_id=2747&seq=1&format=2

Best "bang for the buck" speaker wire there is.


----------



## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Gump_Runner said:


> Found this 12 ga on ebay earlier. Whats your opinion on it.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-GAUGE-W...00-BLACK-PRIMARY-AWG-COPPER-CLAD/272558380368


Well for one thing it is CCA (copper covered aluminum wire)...unless you are completely sheapingout, there is no reason NOT to upgrade to 100% copper wire. Furthermore, that stuff is prolly not that flexible and you will also need to run one each the red and black. 

So my question back to you is--

Why not just buy some OFC dual conductor 14ga or 16ga wire like others have been suggesting??


----------



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

seafish said:


> Well for one thing it is CCA (copper covered aluminum wire)...unless you are completely sheapingout, there is no reason NOT to upgrade to 100% copper wire. Furthermore, that stuff is prolly not that flexible and you will also need to run one each the red and black.
> 
> So my question back to you is--
> 
> Why not just buy some OFC dual conductor 14ga or 16ga wire like others have been suggesting??


As I stated I have already purchased 200ft of 14ga. After seeing the 12ga in my ebay suggestions I thought it might be something people on the forum could use...thus the question & link.


----------



## GMCtrk (Apr 14, 2018)

adrianp89 said:


> Depends on power - I say 150 is the threshold of upgrading from factory. Anything less save your money.


The factory wires in my car are dinky to say the least. 16ga would be the minimum for me.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Be careful with CCA. If it's anything like the CCA sold in the car audio section of Walmart the strands will get little shorts in them thus hindering the signal transfer with much bending at all. And the strands break easy when clamping down on them with a set screw.


----------



## criddopher (Apr 3, 2011)

POLKAT said:


> That wire is copper clad aluminium. Go with copper (OFC) wire from Monoprice.com
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023903&p_id=2747&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Best "bang for the buck" speaker wire there is.


This is the best cheap wire around indeed.

If you want to go a little better without buying into the mysticism associated with higher end cable you can look at canare and mogami wire. It's what recording studios use.


----------



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

Where is everyone sourcing their shrink tubing?


----------



## SPLEclipse (Aug 17, 2012)

Gump_Runner said:


> Where is everyone sourcing their shrink tubing?


Ebay. I bought a huge pack with a bunch of different sizes and colors for around $10 a few years ago and I still have a bunch left, although I started having to use some weird colors a while back as I started to run out of the normal red/black/yellow/etc, lol. The only thing I bought separately was some red and black for my power wires.


As for the speaker wire: buy whatever is flexible, well constructed (someone above mentioned cheap wire breaking easily and that's something to watch out for), and appeals to your particular aesthetic desires. Unless you're running hundreds of watts into low impedances you don't need anything larger than 16awg. You don't need OFC. At typical 4ohm loads with 100w you are drawing 5a of current. At 200w you are drawing 7a. That's peak current that's only going to last for a fraction of a second in most cases.

I buy whatever is cheap. I have no brand loyalty and I don't care what it looks like. I recently got some of the Amazon "house brand" speaker wire and it's great, although not as flexible as some. Most of the super flexible wire I've used has trouble with the strands breaking or fraying easily.


----------



## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

Gump_Runner said:


> Where is everyone sourcing their shrink tubing?


I also get mine from eBay. I just ordered this kit and received it yesterday. 

I wanted a good variety of sizes, but only colored black and red _and_ adhesive lined. This kit looks like pretty good stuff and had good reviews on Amazon, though eBay (as usual) was cheaper. 

Haven't used it yet, but will soon.


----------



## JamesRC (Sep 18, 2017)

OneGun said:


> I'm pretty much in the same boat with how I ran my wires. I didn't use speed wire, but I did the same trick... ran 16 gauge Crutchfield wires from my amp then connected them into the factory wires right behind the HU.
> 
> Still urks me that I did it that way and my plan is, like you, to probably end up going with an active front stage and, at that time, do some legit speaker wire runs right from the amp to the doors.
> 
> ...


How funny. I was running 16 gauge crutchfield wire from the amp to wiring harness as well. I'd tried running the wire through the door boots but couldn't get my wiring fish through them. When my new amp came in I tapped out and had my local shop run new 16 gauge wire through the doors for me. I'm sending 90 watts to the mid-bass and wanted the peace of mind of knowing that I wouldn't be overpowering the factory wire.


----------



## JamesRC (Sep 18, 2017)

Gump_Runner said:


> Where is everyone sourcing their shrink tubing?


I found an inexpensive assortment on Amazon for the smaller gauges, and I like this stuff for 0 gauge power wire. I'd use 1/2" for 4 gauge.


----------



## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

I'm using the stock wire for doors in this Terrain.Suprisingly it is 18awg and that's thick for stock.As far as marking,I don't.As I'm wiring up the amp I'll just do the battery test to identify speakers and tweeters then use a DMM to check continuity on the signal wires.


----------



## JamesRC (Sep 18, 2017)

Amazon has some cool wire labels, but I've only seen them for laser printers. I got around that by printing out some labels on regular old paper and taping them to the wiring with clear packaging tape. 

This was my wiring harness from when I was tapping the speaker wires into the factory wiring via harness. Like I mentioned earlier, I've had the local shop run wires through the door boots since then, but you can see my makeshift labels on the yellow connectors.


----------



## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

JamesRC said:


> Amazon has some cool wire labels, but I've only seen them for laser printers. I got around that by printing out some labels on regular old paper and taping them to the wiring with clear packaging tape.
> 
> This was my wiring harness from when I was tapping the speaker wires into the factory wiring via harness. Like I mentioned earlier, I've had the local shop run wires through the door boots since then, but you can see my makeshift labels on the yellow connectors.


Nothing wrong with that,nice job.


----------



## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

Is 8 ga the general consensus for wiring subs?


----------



## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

If you have 3000w


----------



## GMCtrk (Apr 14, 2018)

I'll be using 8 Ga for my RF T2s. 3300 rms.

12 gauge with my w6v3 right now at 900 rms


----------



## OneGun (Jun 15, 2018)

I think good quality 16 gauge OFC will suffice in most applications.


----------



## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

Don't forget that impedance plays a roll too. 1 ohm may require quite larger wire than say 4 ohms, depending on the power.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Short run of good 16g on sub. 300rms at 2 ohms. 8g is for spl applications where there's several thousand watts going to each sub. I've run 600rms through 16g without issues. I also don't hammer on subs for more than a short burst so ymmv


----------



## EmoJackson (Aug 13, 2018)

I generally like 12ga but the ease that 14 slips into door boots makes it so nice. 

I agree with the others, use wire that has some indentifier on each side to determine polarity. I bought some wire a while back that didn’t have any, what a horrible experience testing for polarity after panels were put back on.


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Gump_Runner said:


> Is 8 ga the general consensus for wiring subs?


Like others have said, 16 awg is usually plenty. Running 8awg as speaker wire would be overkill on the level of absurd.


----------



## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

Gump_Runner said:


> Is 8 ga the general consensus for wiring subs?


I run 10 ga right now. I'm a fan of the biggest wire possible.


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Pb82 Ronin said:


> I run 10 ga right now. I'm a fan of the biggest wire possible.


That's fine, but a lot of people throw massive wire at the problem because they don't understand the problem enough to "risk it". Someone can throw 8awg at the problem if they want, or they can learn about resistivity and voltage drop (or just look at a awg chart) and realize you probably only need to run 14awg (or similar, this is a general example not pointed at anyone specifically). When a 14 awg wire can safely carry all of the current that will ever be needed, then there is no benefit to going bigger. When in doubt go bigger, sure, but first figure out which ballpark you should be in. If 16awg is borderline too small, run 14awg, not 8awg. Wire gauge charts are easy to find, and are very helpful.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

gijoe said:


> That's fine, but a lot of people throw massive wire at the problem because they don't understand the problem enough to "risk it". Someone can throw 8awg at the problem if they want, or they can learn about resistivity and voltage drop (or just look at a awg chart) and realize you probably only need to run 14awg (or similar, this is a general example not pointed at anyone specifically). When a 14 awg wire can safely carry all of the current that will ever be needed, then there is no benefit to going bigger. When in doubt go bigger, sure, but first figure out which ballpark you should be in. If 16awg is borderline too small, run 14awg, not 8awg. Wire gauge charts are easy to find, and are very helpful.


To add to this, why fight to run 12g through a door boot when all you need is 16g for most applications? Most people don't realize how little they can get away with during music applications. My 6x9 woofers in the doors are getting a rated 190rms each (well it's a Zapco ST amp so who the hell knows for sure, lol) and if I were to put the full 190rms to each they'd be toast in a hurry. In other words the 16g going to them is more than enough


----------



## Hulk2015 (Apr 6, 2015)

People say 16 gauge wires are enough.

But my speakers are 2-ohm. Should I go with 12 gauge or is 16 gauge enough? I read somewhere that for 2-ohm speakers you need thicker cables.

CL-61A.2-25 PRO - CDT Audio Classic 2-Ohm 6.5" 2-Way Component Speakers 

https://www.amazon.com/CL-61A-2-25-...8&qid=1534535918&sr=8-6&keywords=cdt+speakers


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Basic Car Audio Electronics
16 on the list on the right. I think you'd be find with 16g even at 2 ohms. Yes as impedance goes down wire size per watt goes up.


----------



## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Basic Car Audio Electronics
> 16 on the list on the right. I think you'd be find with 16g even at 2 ohms. Yes as impedance goes down wire size per watt goes up.


 Yup, 16 ga is usually more than enough.


----------



## juiceweazel (Jul 28, 2014)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Basic Car Audio Electronics
> 16 on the list on the right. I think you'd be find with 16g even at 2 ohms. Yes as impedance goes down wire size per watt goes up.


But isn't this only true because the amp usually pushes more power at 2 then 4 ohm? So then really you just size to the watts your running? So that means you really just need to pay attention to the power you are running.


----------



## SPLEclipse (Aug 17, 2012)

The lower the impedance the more current you need in proportion to voltage. At lower impedances you have way more voltage than current. Wire gauge (for our applications) only need to be able to handle whatever the current is - we don't care about voltage.


----------



## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

For my 2019 WRX I'm going to go with a 3 way setup in front and coaxials in the rear. I was given a large roll of 18 ga 9 conductor audiopipe "speedwire". Plan is either active or using the crossovers mounted to the amp rack on the trunk. Either way my idea was to use a single run up each side of the car to supply the fronts and rear. I see so many people preferring to go 16ga, will i really be affecting my system detrimentally using the 18ga? Amp is going to be an AC D.6-1200 so power will be about 125 wats per channel. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

18awg will work just fine.125w is not "massive" power and you need to realize that music,especially mids and highs,don't max out current flow.The voltage jumps up and down throughout and the peaks probably won't even reach your limit.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

The fact that its audiopipe makes me worry. It's probably undersized and cca. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

That's what it i have









Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## javcolin (Nov 12, 2018)

I'd go 16 gauge for front stage comps or rear fill, and 14 gauge for subs.

Awg 16 would be all you need unless you want to over kill it and go 12 gauge all around.


----------



## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

for front systems at least 13AWG (2,5mm2), For subs at lest 11- 8AWG (4-8mm2)


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I'd double up two of the 18g conductors on each side for midbass but 18 for mids and tweets should be just fine even if the wire is undersized. Then run some standard 18g to the rears.


----------



## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Hadn't thought about doubling up the wires for the midbass, that makes sense. Thanks! Love getting ideas from you guys. Can't wait to get all my ducks in a row and get this project going at last! Love my car and got lots i want to do to it. It's gonna be fun.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

THX0849 said:


> That's what it i have
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that “oxygen free” may be a marketing trick on that wire, though I’m not certain.

The description on each website that sells it is different, but it looks like it’s “100% oxygen free copper (CLAD)”

Anyone know for sure?


----------



## Mike-G (Dec 25, 2008)

Chris12 said:


> I think that “oxygen free” may be a marketing trick on that wire, though I’m not certain.
> 
> The description on each website that sells it is different, but it looks like it’s “100% oxygen free copper (CLAD)”
> 
> Anyone know for sure?


On their website, in the catalogs, they list a true copper series of speaker wire. This is not it. I would agree that this is probably copper clad. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

THX0849 said:


> For my 2019 WRX I'm going to go with a 3 way setup in front and coaxials in the rear. I was given a large roll of 18 ga 9 conductor audiopipe "speedwire". Plan is either active or using the crossovers mounted to the amp rack on the trunk. Either way my idea was to use a single run up each side of the car to supply the fronts and rear. I see so many people preferring to go 16ga, will i really be affecting my system detrimentally using the 18ga? Amp is going to be an AC D.6-1200 so power will be about 125 wats per channel.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk



I built a 2018 WRX 3-way +rear + sub setup, and can weigh in. First off, I have a set of original pillars with tweeter holes in them (Audible Physics AR20 tweeters) and can sell those pillars to you if you don't want to ruin your stockers, which will sell for about $35-40 a piece + shipping. Granted, shipping is a mother, given the size of the box. 



Second, when it comes to budget wire, go to Monoprice. Sheathed 2 or 4 conductor, 16 gauge wire is exactly what I would recommend. Ever since I started using sheathed wire, I found that electrical shorts due to wire damage has been completely eliminated, compared with iffy figures in the past over time, and over installs that require pulling wire here and there. Metal in cars is sharp and will cut regular wire. If you are doing a 3-way setup, I would do 16 gauge 4 conductor, and I would buy a ~100 ft roll. Run through the doors (not as hard as most cars) with the 4 conductor, and now you can twist two together each and have the equiv of 13 gauge in the doors. The REAL reason I want you to get 4 conductor is so you can run that to the front pillar/dash area and run that wire split near the end, and get your tweeters and mids in the same wire run. This will be easy and quick. Terminate your ends with XT60 connectors, or similar. Use ferrules on any termination that results in bare ends. Stuff like that. Oh and you can also substitute for 18 gauge, 4 conductor if you want. Your mids/tweets won't be affected, and you'd end up with 15 gauge equiv in the doors, which is pretty much perfect. Multi-conductor wire at Monoprice is CHEAP. ~$32 for 18 gauge and ~$42 for 16 gauge, 4 conductor. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2817 



BTW, my AR3 / AR20 setup in the WRX with 6.5" Audio Development woofers was AWESOME, once I had the DSP dialed in. You're really going to love it if you can get this setup to be a full 3-way active arrangement. I used a Helix V-Eight which is not cheap, but with a new head unit (ditch stock in a hurry) it sounded amazing.


Also, remember to run your power wire through the fender area. Normally, this is a horrible idea but WRX's there's a place you do it properly from there.


Good luck, the WRX needs lots of love (sound deadening, really) to stop resonating like crazy, but the SQ potential is pretty great.


----------



## THX0849 (Sep 24, 2019)

Lanson said:


> I built a 2018 WRX 3-way +rear + sub setup, and can weigh in. First off, I have a set of original pillars with tweeter holes in them (Audible Physics AR20 tweeters) and can sell those pillars to you if you don't want to ruin your stockers, which will sell for about $35-40 a piece + shipping. Granted, shipping is a mother, given the size of the box.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you! Yes, they're a bit loud and buzzy, but man they're fun to drive. I get in it everyday with a s--t eating grin on my face. LOL. I am going to Soundskin the heck out of the doors, rear deck and trunk areas. What I'm planning right now (if I go active) is an Audio Frog array for the front comprising of GS-10, GS-25 and GS-60 and a set of Morel tempo ultra coaxials for the rear doors. A single 12 inch audio dynamics AD 2212 D4 will suffice i think for me. Amp wise I'm planning on using the Audio Control D-6.1200 and separate amp for the rear/sub. If i go passive for the front of go either Focal or Morel, and the audio control amp for everything. As far as head unit I'm probably going to keep the stock one for now (i read somewhere the 2019 models have a better unit that the 2015-2018) until i save up for a replacement at some point. I would pre run everything so of and when i do change it it'll be plug and play. Also planning on using inline connectors at the kick panels so if the dash ever had to be pulled they won't cut the wiring etc to do it. I know that was a bit of a long winded explanation, sorry.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

THX0849 said:


> Thank you! Yes, they're a bit loud and buzzy, but man they're fun to drive. I get in it everyday with a s--t eating grin on my face. LOL. I am going to Soundskin the heck out of the doors, rear deck and trunk areas. What I'm planning right now (if I go active) is an Audio Frog array for the front comprising of GS-10, GS-25 and GS-60 and a set of Morel tempo ultra coaxials for the rear doors. A single 12 inch audio dynamics AD 2212 D4 will suffice i think for me. Amp wise I'm planning on using the Audio Control D-6.1200 and separate amp for the rear/sub. If i go passive for the front of go either Focal or Morel, and the audio control amp for everything. As far as head unit I'm probably going to keep the stock one for now (i read somewhere the 2019 models have a better unit that the 2015-2018) until i save up for a replacement at some point. I would pre run everything so of and when i do change it it'll be plug and play. Also planning on using inline connectors at the kick panels so if the dash ever had to be pulled they won't cut the wiring etc to do it. I know that was a bit of a long winded explanation, sorry.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk



Sweet! I would do Helix over AudioControl, but that's just me and my infatuation with the brand. Sounds like you are WELL on your way toward a great system. I stand by my recommendation to use Monoprice wire, you'll appreciate the ease of installation and long-term durability that sheathed wire provides. 



Have fun!


----------



## javcolin (Nov 12, 2018)

Vote for the monoprice speaker cable, good a fair price for quality wire.

There was a review and score really high that even some purists and audiophiles would feel offended. As it's just cheap. And can't certainly sound better etc..


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

javcolin said:


> Vote for the monoprice speaker cable, good a fair price for quality wire.
> 
> There was a review and score really high that even some purists and audiophiles would feel offended. As it's just cheap. And can't certainly sound better etc..


Isn't it funny how some people let their wallet decide how good something sounds when it comes to speaker wire, power wire, and most decently constructed rca cables?


----------



## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

funny is also that almost no one make comparative test on cables.....I know I didnt done that in my car for speaker cables, only for RCAs. For car i just bought pretty decent cables from QED - Silver anniversary XT for midrange and tweeter drivers - 1,8 mm2 bi-wire, for bass and subbass drivers I use copper - Dietz twisted and shielded on midbass - 2,5mm2 and Esoteric audio 8 mm2 for subbass

I TESTED SOME CABLES FOR HOME SYSTEMS,....THERE ARE DIFFERENCIES BETWEEN THEM THAT YOU CAN HEAR, ...ops... but Im sure that such difference I would not be able to hear in a car during ride...


----------



## jriggs (Jun 14, 2011)

In my most recent install, I used 16 ga Meniscus twisted pair for each tweeter and mid. 14 ga Stinger pro for mid bass.

https://meniscusaudio.com/product-category/wire/

I especially like the fact that each has its own color for +, making management of the wiring very easy.


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I would contend that your connections make far more difference, as long as you're using sufficient gauge copper. That's why I love using XT60's. At least you know that the connection isn't going to be an issue.


----------



## ajt976 (Feb 27, 2019)

Lanson said:


> I would contend that your connections make far more difference, as long as you're using sufficient gauge copper. That's why I love using XT60's. At least you know that the connection isn't going to be an issue.


Agreed on this, improper terminations will definitely cause problems.

Also, have you experienced any oxidation issues with the Monoprice 4 conductor? I buy pretty much all my other cabling from there but saw some people advising against it for use in a vehicle. I ended up going a different direction but was always curious if I would've been fine using the Monoprice. The 4 conductor makes so much sense for what I was doing too...


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

There are 3 things you need to think about with regard to speaker wire.

1. Resistance- The wire should be sized appropriately for the power running through it, CCA might have higher resistance, but a size bigger will overcome that, and resistance will only matter if you're pushing it to the max.

2. Corrosion- Some people will say that CCA corrodes quicker, which may be the case, but a properly terminated wire won't have issues for a long time (depending on environmental conditions). 

3. The jacket- The wire needs to be tough enough to handle the project it's being used for, it should be flexible enough to pull where you need to pull it (mostly number of strands, not necessarily jacket flexibility). 

There is not a difference otherwise. You cannot hear the difference in speaker wires, because the resistance (specifically the voltage drop from the resistance) is the only thing that could affect the sound, and the effect it will have is simply to attenuate the signal. LBAudio is simply wrong if he's talking about speaker wire, and even if he's talking about RCA's that's a huge stretch since they are basically just a speaker wire with a shield to reject noise.

Also, in most cases even 16awg is more than what is necessary, people have a habit of oversizing things instead of understanding them.


----------



## jdunk54nl (Apr 25, 2015)

gijoe said:


> There are 3 things you need to think about with regard to speaker wire.
> 
> 1. Resistance- The wire should be sized appropriately for the power running through it, CCA might have higher resistance, but a size bigger will overcome that, and will only matter if you're pushing it to the max.
> 
> ...


Just for giggles, I used the BCAE wire site here WIRE

I put in 16gauge wire and tried to max out both the run length and the power applied. Going over either of these things would cause one of the errors, either circular nill or audible power loss in wire.

To get it to have the 300 circular nill error, I had to go over 298w.
To get it to go to an audible loss in voltage due to resistance (aka length in this case) I had to go over 60 feet.

So 16ga was 298w and 60 feet.

17ga was 188w and 48 feet.
18ga was 118w and 38 feet.


Side thought:

I am on the fence of using my factory 18 gauge wire for 180w to my midbass...
I don't know if I want to run new wire through the molex. The differences at 180w between 18 and 17 is about 2 watts and about .2 volt drop

But if I was running wire, it would be max 16 gauge. If I ever bridge my pdx-f6 to the mids, 16 gauge would easily be able to handle the power.


----------



## javcolin (Nov 12, 2018)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> javcolin said:
> 
> 
> > Vote for the monoprice speaker cable, good a fair price for quality wire.
> ...


Wait they do make a difference, "Not"
But people tend to associate the more they expend the better something has to be. So even if they agree it didn't improved at all is hard to admit as you just sped a lot of money to accomplish nothing so that got to hurt ain't it.


----------



## javcolin (Nov 12, 2018)

gijoe said:


> There are 3 things you need to think about with regard to speaker wire.
> 
> 1. Resistance- The wire should be sized appropriately for the power running through it, CCA might have higher resistance, but a size bigger will overcome that, and will only matter if you're pushing it to the max.
> 
> ...


Great explanation on the basic things to look for when buying proper speaker cable.


----------



## javcolin (Nov 12, 2018)

.[/QUOTE]
[/COLOR]
Just for giggles, I used the BCAE wire site here WIRE

I put in 16gauge wire and tried to max out both the run length and the power applied. Going over either of these things would cause one of the errors, either circular nill or audible power loss in wire.

To get it to have the 300 circular nill error, I had to go over 298w.
To get it to go to an audible loss in voltage due to resistance (aka length in this case) I had to go over 60 feet.

So 16ga was 298w and 60 feet.

17ga was 188w and 48 feet.
18ga was 118w and 38 feet.


Side thought:

I am on the fence of using my factory 18 gauge wire for 180w to my midbass...
I don't know if I want to run new wire through the molex. The differences at 180w between 18 and 17 is about 2 watts and about .2 volt drop

But if I was running wire, it would be max 16 gauge. If I ever bridge my pdx-f6 to the mids, 16 gauge would easily be able to handle the power.[/QUOTE]

Nice test. 

This little experiment confirms that I'm good using 16 gauge for tweeters and mid range. 

Thanks for sharing


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

ajt976 said:


> Agreed on this, improper terminations will definitely cause problems.
> 
> Also, have you experienced any oxidation issues with the Monoprice 4 conductor? I buy pretty much all my other cabling from there but saw some people advising against it for use in a vehicle. I ended up going a different direction but was always curious if I would've been fine using the Monoprice. The 4 conductor makes so much sense for what I was doing too...



Definitely no oxidation in the cable I use from them. On all my bare wire connections, I use ferrules https://www.amazon.com/Ferrule-Crim...words=ferrule&qid=1570132545&s=gateway&sr=8-9 and of course like we talked about, XT60's on main connectors.


I'm sure oxidation is a threat to any copper at some point, whether it cost 20 bucks a foot, or 20 bucks a roll. But I have plenty of that 16 gauge / 4 conductor stuff that I pulled out of previous vehicles when returning back to stock, and none of it seems remotely "aged".


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Plus, music is dynamic and only hits the peaks of these max wattage points for fractions of a second. And there's no way you're pushing that type of power to your tweeter and mid. Midbass, yep for little blips in time as a snare hit or similar sound occurs, while at a loud volume.


I'd be more concerned about power compression than undersized wire, provided you met min specs





javcolin said:


> .


 [/COLOR]
Just for giggles, I used the BCAE wire site here WIRE

I put in 16gauge wire and tried to max out both the run length and the power applied. Going over either of these things would cause one of the errors, either circular nill or audible power loss in wire.

To get it to have the 300 circular nill error, I had to go over 298w.
To get it to go to an audible loss in voltage due to resistance (aka length in this case) I had to go over 60 feet.

So 16ga was 298w and 60 feet.

17ga was 188w and 48 feet.
18ga was 118w and 38 feet.


Side thought:

I am on the fence of using my factory 18 gauge wire for 180w to my midbass...
I don't know if I want to run new wire through the molex. The differences at 180w between 18 and 17 is about 2 watts and about .2 volt drop

But if I was running wire, it would be max 16 gauge. If I ever bridge my pdx-f6 to the mids, 16 gauge would easily be able to handle the power.[/QUOTE]

Nice test. 

This little experiment confirms that I'm good using 16 gauge for tweeters and mid range. 

Thanks for sharing[/QUOTE]


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I used the 16/4 Monoprice ofc in my install. I also live in Arkansas where the humidity is insane. Brings new meaning to the term "swamp ass". I also saw where it was said to corrode and just plain turn green. Those same people were from a swampy area like me but figured I'd try it out myself anyway. Hopefully it holds up because I plan on keeping this truck for a while. What's left of the 250' roll is in the shop so I'll keep an eye on it. I know it gets WAY swampier than that inside my doors though. When the sun first hits them on a humid morning...OH MY.


----------



## ajt976 (Feb 27, 2019)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I used the 16/4 Monoprice ofc in my install. I also live in Arkansas where the humidity is insane. Brings new meaning to the term "swamp ass". I also saw where it was said to corrode and just plain turn green. Those same people were from a swampy area like me but figured I'd try it out myself anyway. Hopefully it holds up because I plan on keeping this truck for a while. What's left of the 250' roll is in the shop so I'll keep an eye on it. I know it gets WAY swampier than that inside my doors though. When the sun first hits them on a humid morning...OH MY.


Nice! Yes I'd be interested to see what it looks like if/when you ever open those doors up. What type of connector on the ends? I feel like that's gotta be the key.


----------



## JewelHanda (Dec 13, 2019)

Hi...IMO 8 gauge wire is used from amp to subs and those wires can see some un godly amounts if power and don't have issues. Sometimes people even user 12-10 gauge wire for subs passing well over 1k per sub. Those being fairly short runs of wire though.
In conclusion 14 gauge should work just fine but 12 gauge would still be the better option. Could do bigger write going to the first speaker then smaller write going from speaker to speaker to though.

pcb fab and assembly


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

JewelHanda said:


> Hi...IMO 8 gauge wire is used from amp to subs and those wires can see some un godly amounts if power and don't have issues. Sometimes people even user 12-10 gauge wire for subs passing well over 1k per sub. Those being fairly short runs of wire though.
> In conclusion 14 gauge should work just fine but 12 gauge would still be the better option. Could do bigger write going to the first speaker then smaller write going from speaker to speaker to though.


Holy crap, no!

8awg is gigantic wire for any speaker, even a subwoofer. Most subwoofers will realistically only need 16 awg or so, nothing wrong with 14-12 awg, but 8 awg is a complete wast of copper. 

For midbass and tweeters, even 20 awg will work most of the time, over short runs, like tapping into OEM wiring. 

It's important to have safe wiring, but throwing oversized speaker wire at the problem because you don't want to figure out how much power a run can actually handle is crazy. 

Let me give you a small example:

I just installed a 5 channel amp in my car. The sub channel is capable of 600 watts at the 2ohm load it's seeing, and the 4 other channels are at 4 ohms and rated for 60 watts. The amp has 120 amperes worth of fusing. I'm running 8awg for power and ground (gasp!), 8 awg would be good for 80-100 amperes over the short run I have (less than 6 feet). At first glance the amp has 120 amperes of fusing, but 8awg shouldn't be passing 120 amperers over that length. This is why you fuse for the wire, not the amp. I have 60A fuse in the fuseholder, and guess what? Even at enthusiastic listening levels I have not blown the fuse, the wire does not get warm, and I can sustain these listening levels for as long as I want. The point is, the amp is pulling less than half it's potential, even at high volumes. You are using far less power than you think. A run of about 4' of 8awg wire can pass 100A safely, that works out to 20,000 watts to a speaker.


----------



## asnatlas (Apr 4, 2021)

Good details, thanks everyone.


----------

