# Processor for horns



## nucci (Mar 29, 2012)

Any particular advantages or disadvantages of the usual suspects? Arc PS8, Zapco, Mosconi 6to8.

I have 4550s on ID horns, BMS 8S215 mids, and a 15" AE IB sub.

Guessing that its no different than with cone drivers, but with the different noise floor requirements of horns, I thought it was worth asking.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

other than some unique EQ requirements for horns, they still produce sound and have to be tuned as such.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Usually, I say "usually" ; processor have much lower noise floor compared to amplifiers... 

Any of the big leader's DSP would work well with a horn system 

Just one note, please avoid the H800 - am not saying it's a bad processor, just that an Audison BitTen D is 11dB quieter than the Alpine (got a test showing that) 

Kelvin


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Usually, I say "usually" ; processor have much lower noise floor compared to amplifiers... 

Any of the big leader's DSP would work well with a horn system 

Just one note, please avoid the H800 - am not saying it's a bad processor, just that an Audison BitTen D is 11dB quieter than the Alpine (got a test showing that) 

Kelvin


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

well,dang. That's the one I had my eye on. I like having full control of tuning without a PC. Normally I would trend towards something like a P99, but I'm thinking of horns and was desiring some parametric capabilities. NOt to mention I really want (gasp) some properly processed rear fill. 

I guess my fallback would be MS8 (the more I read about its self tuning the more impressed I am although I normally eschew that kind of thing) or just go cheap and do Zapco or RF 360.3.

So please tell us you have all the noise floor comparisons for each of those


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

cajunner said:


> DSP choice in the car is probably fine for 100% of the people while the car is moving, as the noise floor is high enough to mask even the worst of DSP processors that I'm aware of, anything over an 80 db S/N is going to be tough to notice.
> 
> same thing with most amplifiers, and it's only when you accumulate or compound the residual artifact/hash into each successive component that you get into some audible hiss at speed.
> 
> ...


For a daily driver with horns, I can assure you that a bad component (HU, DSP or amplifier) will be noticed - even on the freeway  

Kelvin


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> Just one note, please avoid the H800 - am not saying it's a bad processor, just that an Audison BitTen D is 11dB quieter than the Alpine (got a test showing that)
> 
> Kelvin


I am using the the H800 with the 117 HU connected via AI Net and can not complain about any Noise Floor!

Horns Eric Stevens Mini and JL HD 600/4


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I am using the the H800 with the 117 HU connected via AI Net and can not complain about any Noise Floor!
> 
> Horns Eric Stevens Mini and JL HD 600/4


You're using the Ai Net, good for you - dunno what kind of HU the OP plans on using but Alpine dropped Ai Net for their newer stuffs... 

Kelvin


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

My previous HU was a jvc 99 kd connected via cinch --> no noise 

Barney 

Send with Tapatalk


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Well, tried a couple of DSPs in my girl's horn system and the first one was a DSP6 from Zapco = quiet 
Then moved the Zapco piece to my own car and replaced it with a DCX-730 (supposed to be similar in construction to the Zapco piece) = noise floor through the roof  It wasn't a noice that went up or down with RPM, really was noice floor 
Am now using an EQ232 from PG = lower noise floor than the PPI piece but still more noise than the DSP6... 

Did use the DCX-730 with conventional dome tweeters and cone midrange and it's quiet enough not to notice, even @ a red light... 

I seem to have read that the 3Sixty.2 processor was noisy with conventional drivers - can't imagine what it would be like with horns :surprised:

Kelvin 

PS: I do agree with you that sometimes it's not noise floor that we need to worry about - some amp design just introduces more noise than any DSP can


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## ALL4SQ (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm finding the shelving option on the Mosconi 6 to 8 helpful. It might work great with horns that roll off early on the top end. If your running tweeters then it probably wouldn't help much. I also like the fact that I can type in what frequency I want. You can even have multiple bands with the same frequency if you want.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

preston said:


> well,dang. That's the one I had my eye on. I like having full control of tuning without a PC. Normally I would trend towards something like a P99, but I'm thinking of horns and was desiring some parametric capabilities. NOt to mention I really want (gasp) some properly processed rear fill.
> 
> I guess my fallback would be MS8 (the more I read about its self tuning the more impressed I am although I normally eschew that kind of thing) or just go cheap and do Zapco or RF 360.3.
> 
> So please tell us you have all the noise floor comparisons for each of those


throw the ms8 out, unless you want your system to sound no different than conventional drivers... 

many reports including myself out there on the ms8 and horns... none were really happy with it, and it seemed to not know exactly what to do with horns.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

6to8 offers a ton of flexibility, especially with EQ.


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

Mic10is said:


> 6to8 offers a ton of flexibility, especially with EQ.


I agree with the two gents above!


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Mic10is said:


> 6to8 offers a ton of flexibility, especially with EQ.


By the time I buy a new car, if nothing else comes out, I do find the 6to8 to be the best for the money - add-ons are sweet too, like the ability to play HD tracks via blutooth  

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I loved my ms8. It made the horns and midbasses sound good- eye level stage solid center. However it had NO attack to it. And the midbasses were jbl 2118s. Yeah it should have slapped you around.


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## nucci (Mar 29, 2012)

Good sources for Mosconi purchase? B&M store?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> I loved my ms8. It made the horns and midbasses sound good- eye level stage solid center. However it had NO attack to it. And the midbasses were jbl 2118s. Yeah it should have slapped you around.


Think Matt Bogart did make a horn system using the MS-8 sound good... He described it on the old ID forum... 
Said that he prefered the MS-8 with horns without the center channel

Kelvin


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## ALL4SQ (Mar 28, 2009)

nucci said:


> Good sources for Mosconi purchase? B&M store?


Purchased my Mosconi 6 to 8 from Bing. [email protected] 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...st-announcement-history-simplicity-sound.html


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

MS8 with horns can "sound" good but as Winslow said, one of the biggest complaints with the MS8 is it kills any midbass attack. This is a complaint with conventional driver systems as well. Tonally the system can sound very good. I like what it did tonally overall. it was well balanced. band to band integration was seamless.
the issue was the bass sounded somewhat bloated and lacked attack. there was no snap, no visceral feeling of weight or presence.

the other huge thing it did with horns was it applied ridiculous amounts of time alignment to the horns. Andy even said that it was never designed with horns in mind or even thought of.
So in my car, everything seemed to originate from the right side. it was very right side bias-despite the fact that if you measured amplitude, every speaker measured the same.
THe only way I was able to fix this--was I ran calibration while straddling my center console. fortunately, im not that tall, but still...sitting with my arm rest half way up my ass, turning my head side to side to various noise prompts is not what I consider audiophile level tuning.

I honestly felt like I got dumber when I used the MS8 bc I spent so much time trying to manipulate it to get the results I want. maybe if I lean my head this way, or this way or if I cover this with foam or look at this angle instead, or cover this with tape or adjust the gain before then after....

It is an awesome product for its intended market--the novice to intermediate car system person, who wants an upgrade in sound but does not have the knowledge on how to tune a system.


In fact, if you call Arc to ask questions about the PS8--one of the 1st thing they will ask you is "how much experience do you have tuning a system?" if you answer none or little, theyll tell you to buy an MS8, not a PS8


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

nucci said:


> Good sources for Mosconi purchase? B&M store?


Yea man, support your local B/M store. They may even help you tune the car.



Greg Sherven 
South East Customz
[email protected]


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Tonally it sounded great with the MS8. Rock solid center (probably more from the horns), and very high stage. Everything blended really well. Just no snap and impact from the fronts...and having heard 2118s, they shouldn't be short on that. I didn't do much tuning after that to try to get it back.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

hey replied to your PM. contact ORCA and see if there is a local dealer to you, if there isnt, then we will go from there 

b


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Tonally it sounded great with the MS8. Rock solid center (probably more from the horns), and very high stage. Everything blended really well. Just no snap and impact from the fronts...and having heard 2118s, they shouldn't be short on that. I didn't do much tuning after that to try to get it back.


I'm currently running an MS-8 with a pair of fullsize ID horns. I agree whole heartedly with this statement. Only I'm running a set of 18sound MB400's instead of 2118's. I'm currently working on bringing some of that snap back.

*Edit. Well aside from the high stage height part. But I'm 99% sure its because reflections caused by my acrylic targa top. Its like rolling around in a greenhouse. Lol.


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Would a Sony XES-P1 with 6-band PEQ be enough processing for horns?


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

MS8 lets you control all the parameters doesn't it ? Can't you control everything just like any other DSP ? or does it force you to start from an initial autotune where you're never quite sure where you started ?

Probably not that relevant but here are some of my thoughts on what I'm going to do with my current system - (Currently HAT L3SE, L8, sub, all active in a Dodge Ram, but thinking of going horns, also want some rear fill and if I don't go horns, center channel)

P99 - $1200 elegant -would look beautiful in the dash, simple high fidelity signal path, everything I need except some parametric. Obviously it doesn't have the inifinite choices of x-over slopes and individual driver EQ either as well as some other advanced stuff, but you can tune on the fly no PC required. Not to mention one less box to mount and power (and fail).

ArcAudio PS8(?) - $800 ?? more expensive of the outboards, seems like currently you may have to wait for it although I haven't inquired through the local dealer how hard they are to get. Requires PC to tune. Seems to be the most powerful unit available but more than I need.

Zapco DSP8(?) - $500 ?? seems to do everything well, good gui, requires PC. Seems to be currently available from zapco dealers. Adjusts phase in smaller than 180 increments although honestly I wouldn't know how or why to do this beyond basic T/A.

Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.3 - $450 on ebay, readily available. Software seems buggy with some users reporting serious issues with bootup, a few people with noise problems. Overall a good tuning package for the price. Again requires PC to tune

Alpine H800 - $700 street price with controller. Tune on the fly, processed rear fill and center channel. Forces you into their channel schemes. And, according to a previous post, higher noise floor(?). Otherwise all the normal features including auto tune which is not on par with the MS8 however. Road EQ sounds cool but have read its just a compensated low frequency/volume boost, not some sort of active noise control which would be really cool. 

Mosconi 6to8 - $ ?? All users seem to like it. I haven't read the manual so I'm not sure of everything it can do. Some complaints about GUI being challenging. Main issue I have with it is I don't know where to buy it or exactly how much it costs. Concerned about repair/support since its from Italy as well.


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

you could add audison bit ten and bit one to your list. both can be tuned via DRC or PC. both fall into that price range too.

bit ten doesn't inclue the DRC though.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

preston said:


> MS8 lets you control all the parameters doesn't it ? Can't you control everything just like any other DSP ? or does it force you to start from an initial autotune where you're never quite sure where you started ?
> 
> Probably not that relevant but here are some of my thoughts on what I'm going to do with my current system - (Currently HAT L3SE, L8, sub, all active in a Dodge Ram, but thinking of going horns, also want some rear fill and if I don't go horns, center channel)
> 
> ...


The only thing MS8 allows you to tune in the post tuning process is a global 31band eq. thats it besides basic tone controls.

6to8 is as powerful of a processor as the PS8, but has few available bands on the last 2 pair of outputs.
PS8 has 30 bands per output, 6to8 only has 9 and 7 bands available--however they are fully configurable parametric. so what you can do with the outputs is limitless.


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## Neil_J (Mar 2, 2011)

My MS-8 was super noisy, I mean like unbearably so. And the turnon pops.. It might have been an isolated issue with my particular ms8 or the fact that I have a very noisy electrical system. Couldn't imagine using it with horns, although other people above have done so with no issue.

The 6to8 is great hardware wise but is kludgey on the software side. Terrible UI with lots of bugs and opportunities to lose your settings if you're not careful. I had a local guru tune it one time, and apparently he hit something wrong, and I was running my 3-way active stage with crossovers disabled (!!!) for a few minutes. The 30 band parametric would be great for horns. And the noise floor isn't terrible.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I had some noise floor with the MS-8 on the horns...but I didn't know if it ws fromt he processor or the JL 600/4 they were on. And I didn't really play with gains when I put them in- just let the MS-8 level everything out. So likely mine could have been fixed though neither the MS-8 or the 600/4 has an incredible SNR.


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

I have no noise with mine but I do get a pop if I adjust settings too quickly. Like the 31 band eq for instance. If I take my time changing settings then I don't get a pop.


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