# b&c 8" neo WOW!



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Let's just say I haven't been this excited about a driver in a long time...


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Told ya.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Yeah, but did you send me one to play with??


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

this is a tease


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## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

So invest in B&C stock in prep for forum boner? 

-aaron


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## toolfan91 (Dec 7, 2005)

God damnit, I wanted to have my 8s narrowed to what was in the 8" testing  I hate you Nguyen!


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## sqkev (Mar 7, 2005)

stop teasing man

which model?
this ? http://www.usspeaker.com/B&C-8NDL51-1.htm

I'm almost finish with my install, don't do this


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

Can we expect to see some measurements anytime soon?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

npdang said:


> Yeah, but did you send me one to play with??


Yes I did but it got lost in the mail.


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

npdang handed out blue balls.......lets hear it.....


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

we really need that "this thread is worthless without pictures!!!!" smiley lol. you better put up some test results up quick or i'll lose some sleep tonight


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Will post more tonight, but basically this thing has one of the best Klippel measurements I've seen and sounds darn good to boot.


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## sqkev (Mar 7, 2005)

full measurements pls!


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## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

npdang said:


> Will post more tonight, but basically this thing has one of the best Klippel measurements I've seen and sounds darn good to boot.


Lol you nerd.

-aaron


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

ArcL100 said:


> Lol you nerd.
> 
> -aaron


X2

klipple...what?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Lol what do you think... I just listened to it?


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## Blair (Aug 7, 2006)

npdang said:


> basically this thing has one of the best Klippel measurements I've seen and sounds darn good to boot.


Oh that is like music to my ears considering these are mine! 

I guess the gamble on these drivers looks like it may have paid off!!

I cannot wait to see the results. Oh and yes Kev these are the 8ndl51's

- Blair


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## kappa546 (Apr 11, 2005)

ok so any other initial impressions than just "darn good"? 

damn now this has me wondering if i should still go back to my xls8/whisper combo as planned or try these with some nice compact tweets in pillars. i'm actually just fed up with how speakers low in the doors sound in my car.


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## sqkev (Mar 7, 2005)

Blair said:


> Oh that is like music to my ears considering these are mine!
> 
> I guess the gamble on these drivers looks like it may have paid off!!
> 
> ...


thanks for the info!  

now it's the battle between that B&C, the AA polys and the peerless sls (too bad I sold the xls  )

wait...aren't you all the way from OZ?
you didn't send the drivers to npdang all the way from oz did you?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Brief comments - Very loud with little power. Midrange is good for an 8" unit. I'd place it about the level of Seas 7" CA18RNX series in that respect. Def. on the warm side. Very low distortion, although my guess is energy storage is not too great which is why clarity could be better esp. in the higher freq's. 

Ideal for use as a mid/bass, midrange from about 80hz to 1000hz. Could go even higher to 2 or 3khz, although FR gets rough and clarity isn't as good. Limited throw probably 16mm p-p, so don't cross too low. Should have plenty of kick and snap above 80hz though for those looking for more midbass and less of that sub like feeling. In my lil test box kicks pretty hard but not too good on the low end.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

npdang said:


> Brief comments - Very loud with little power. Midrange is good for an 8" unit. I'd place it about the level of Seas 7" CA18RNX series in that respect. Def. on the warm side. Very low distortion, although my guess is energy storage is not too great which is why clarity could be better esp. in the higher freq's.
> 
> Ideal for use as a mid/bass, midrange from about 80hz to 1000hz. Could go even higher to 2 or 3khz, although FR gets rough and clarity isn't as good. Limited throw probably 16mm p-p, so don't cross too low. Should have plenty of kick and snap above 80hz though for those looking for more midbass and less of that sub like feeling. In my lil test box kicks pretty hard but not too good on the low end.


Sounds very similar to my experience with my 6ndl38's


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## Blair (Aug 7, 2006)

sqkev said:


> wait...aren't you all the way from OZ?
> you didn't send the drivers to npdang all the way from oz did you?


Yep sunny Australia!

Nah I didn't send them to npdang, however he is kindly forwarding them to me once he has finished his measurements. I'm absolutely over the moon!


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## dBassHz (Nov 2, 2005)

Thanks for posting the results. I would rather have those indoors though.


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

I've had a set of 6NDL44s waiting to be installed for a couple of months now. Just couldn't find the time to install 'em. Now I really gotta get on it.

They do sound very clean and even... just playing free air on my desk that is.


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## sqkev (Mar 7, 2005)

Blair said:


> Yep sunny Australia!
> 
> Nah I didn't send them to npdang, however he is kindly forwarding them to me once he has finished his measurements. I'm absolutely over the moon!


Using these with the horns? 

Which compression drivers did you end up going with? another B&C?


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## Blair (Aug 7, 2006)

Yep with horns. I still want to buy a pair of the BMS 4552nd's but there is no dristributer here in Australia and Assistance Audio won't deal internationally.

As for bass duties I am still undecided. All I know is that I want a pair of 15's IB. Keeping in with the PA theme I was looking at some BMS, B&C or Beyma 15's but I just cannot convince myself completely that they will be suitable. 

I am also considering a pair of JBL W15GTI's. They seem to be quite the candidate. Highish Qts, good sensitivity and I have heard excellent reports of them working well in IB applications. The only downside is that they weigh a bloody tonne and it'll cost me a small fortune to have them shipped here to OZ. Also the mounting depth of over 10 inches stinks. They are HUGE mothas!

Wanna add any drivers to my shortlist???


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## nothing13 (Jul 27, 2005)

Hmm.. this sounds promising.. i'm thinking about going with some new 8's to mate with my horns and these look like a great candidate! keep us posted!


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

Blair said:


> Yep with horns. I still want to buy a pair of the BMS 4552nd's but there is no dristributer here in Australia and Assistance Audio won't deal internationally.


Have you tried this place? They claim to ship worldwide.
http://www.woodhorn.com/BMS/bms_4552nd.htm


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## Blair (Aug 7, 2006)

ca90ss said:


> Have you tried this place? They claim to ship worldwide.
> http://www.woodhorn.com/BMS/bms_4552nd.htm


Great,

Thanks for that. I'll be sure to give them a shot


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

Thanks for the test results Npdang and Blair for lending the drivers.  

Blair you're and the right track with your subwoofer choices. The only downfall about the JBL are the one's that you listed but it's worth it.
Last year I listened to a pair of B&C 15NW100 and they sounded excelent. No complaints about those.
But I got my eyes on the BMS 15N840v². If I didn't already had my JBL 1500GTi I would go with the BMS driver.

Leo


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

npdang said:


> Will post more tonight, but basically this thing has one of the best Klippel measurements I've seen and sounds darn good to boot.


It's good when those two things actually jive. You know you're doing something right.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

me likes...whats cost per driver?

nm...4" deep


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## dBassHz (Nov 2, 2005)

3.5max6spd said:


> me likes...whats cost per driver?
> 
> nm...4" deep


For the B&C 8NDL51? $124.99 from www.usspeaker.com


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

3.5max6spd said:


> me likes...whats cost per driver?
> 
> nm...4" deep


Depth is 3.5" / 90mm...


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## raamaudio (May 4, 2005)

I took a good look at those drivers awhile back to mate with the ID Neo horns, would of been great but not enough output to match the horns and 15" sub in the hatch project car

No room for dual units and I was trying to save some weight as well. 

Other than that, I almost bought them to give them a tryout anyway

Rick


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## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

Blair said:


> Wanna add any drivers to my shortlist???


Have you looked at the Dayton IB sub?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-455


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

raamaudio said:


> I took a good look at those drivers awhile back to mate with the ID Neo horns, would of been great but not enough output to match the horns and 15" sub in the hatch project car
> 
> No room for dual units and I was trying to save some weight as well.
> 
> ...


Not enough output? These have 6mm x-max each way and 90+db/w, weight only 4.8 lbs each. What else could get to achieve better results to match the horns?

Leo


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

raamaudio said:


> I took a good look at those drivers awhile back to mate with the ID Neo horns, would of been great but not enough output to match the horns and 15" sub in the hatch project car
> 
> No room for dual units and I was trying to save some weight as well.
> 
> ...


You sure about the output, Rick? These things are designed to pair up with big P.A. horns.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

It's not that deep IIRC... sits about the exact same height as my Peerless Exclusive 7". They maybe including the mounting flange which is pretty thick, that or my eyes are going bad on me.


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## raamaudio (May 4, 2005)

Sorry, I wanted the to play lower mainly, loud and low, I like very strong lower midbass and a low crossover point while doing so.

I should of been more specific  

Rick


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## Et Cetera (Jul 28, 2006)

Blair said:


> Wanna add any drivers to my shortlist???


Blair, do consider the Hertz Air Mille 3800 subs (designed for IB) for your setup. They are very nice subs and should be available somewhere close to you.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

300Z said:


> Thanks for the test results Npdang and Blair for lending the drivers.
> 
> Blair you're and the right track with your subwoofer choices. The only downfall about the JBL are the one's that you listed but it's worth it.
> Last year I listened to a pair of B&C 15NW100 and they sounded excelent. No complaints about those.
> ...


You know the 12" is really looking attractive to me. 96dbwm sensitivity? Could that be right? Anyone want to do the math I don't have a calculator with me... (9.64*10^-10 * fs^3 * vas)/ qes = X 

Then take 10(log x) + 112 and tell me what you get


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Only getting 88.7dbwm  Where do they get 96 from I wonder.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

npdang said:


> Only getting 88.7dbwm  Where do they get 96 from I wonder.


You have to blow into the pole piece while it's playing.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Thanks to everyone involved for the review and the test. I love tests like this one because they sent to be a great f-you to people who think that data do not matter, or that one cannot infer much about how a driver will sound in a system based on its raw measurements.

My only comment is regarding them sounding a bit warm. I agree, if your frame of reference is the Excel that they're a bit warm. For my taste, the Excel is a bit on the sterile side of neutral, and the B&C is closer to my preference. But that's an entirely subjective judgment call.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I used the 7" Exclusive as a reference. Pure tones were very good with the BC, but with music it did sound a bit softer and heavier.


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## Tommythecat (Apr 6, 2006)

npdang said:


> Only getting 88.7dbwm  Where do they get 96 from I wonder.


I got 93.75 which seems to agree with the freq response graph from 150-800Hz.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Unibox is giving me 88.7. Are you sure about 93.75? It's basically the same parameters as the Diyma but with double the vas. Sorry I'm referring to the 12S330.


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## Tommythecat (Apr 6, 2006)

Crap, I looked at the B&C 12nw100 because it looked to be the only 12 with quoted 96db efficiency.

You just said 12" so I wasn't sure what you meant.

Ans I have no idea where BMS got 96db, the spec sheet graph has it around 108db at [email protected] 100W is ~ +20db, so it should be around what you calculated.


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## Blair (Aug 7, 2006)

300Z said:


> Thanks for the test results Npdang and Blair for lending the drivers.
> 
> Blair you're and the right track with your subwoofer choices. The only downfall about the JBL are the one's that you listed but it's worth it.
> Last year I listened to a pair of B&C 15NW100 and they sounded excelent. No complaints about those.
> ...


Precicely the woofers I have been contemplating. I just placed my order for the 4552nd compression drivers through Bill from Woodhorn. Even from the otherside of the planet he replyed to my queries almost immediately.

I also queried him about the 15N840V2 woofers. According to the BMS website, there is both a 4ohm and an 8ohm version. The 4ohm version appears better suited to my application as it has a lower fs and higher qts. Bill is making enquiries with the factory for me.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

Blair said:


> Yep with horns. I still want to buy a pair of the BMS 4552nd's but there is no dristributer here in Australia and Assistance Audio won't deal internationally.
> 
> As for bass duties I am still undecided. All I know is that I want a pair of 15's IB. Keeping in with the PA theme I was looking at some BMS, B&C or Beyma 15's but I just cannot convince myself completely that they will be suitable.
> 
> ...



find a pair of the old school gti1500 subs.
they have a very shallow mount and have a nice sensitivity! the downside is they require a large box, but with your application they may work. ive listened to one in a 3-4 cu ft sealed box and it was very nice. 
anyone use the gti1200 or gti1500 in an ib setup?


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

Blair said:


> Precicely the woofers I have been contemplating. I just placed my order for the 4552nd compression drivers through Bill from Woodhorn. Even from the otherside of the planet he replyed to my queries almost immediately.


I think you'll be very happy with the 4552's. They don't quite have the top end and openness of the 4540's but overall I'd say that they are a better choice when being matched up with the B&C 8's


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## Blair (Aug 7, 2006)

ca90ss said:


> I think you'll be very happy with the 4552's. They don't quite have the top end and openness of the 4540's but overall I'd say that they are a better choice when being matched up with the B&C 8's


Thats exactly what I wanted to hear! As for the old school JBL's that would be nice, but what are the chances of me finding a pair BNIB? Sweet FA im guessing.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

Blair said:


> As for the old school JBL's that would be nice, but what are the chances of me finding a pair BNIB? Sweet FA im guessing.


I just got one back in Jan from a member of this forum, used but in very very good condition and an unbelievable price too. Keep an eye on the for sale section, they pop up once in a while...  
Thanks Steve.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

Blair said:


> Thats exactly what I wanted to hear! As for the old school JBL's that would be nice, but what are the chances of me finding a pair BNIB? Sweet FA im guessing.


not likely....
must be your lucky day:
http://cgi.ebay.com/nib-jbl-1500-gt...ryZ18804QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
would i pay that over a new gti? hell yes 

yes, thank you too steve for the 12 inch gti you sold me


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

legend94 said:


> not likely....
> must be your lucky day:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/nib-jbl-1500-gt...ryZ18804QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> 
> ...


In all reality I think that's still a fair price to pay for a new GTi considering their Pro audio counterpart is still going for $335.


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## B&K (Sep 20, 2005)

legend94 said:


> find a pair of the old school gti1500 subs.
> they have a very shallow mount and have a nice sensitivity! the downside is they require a large box, but with your application they may work. ive listened to one in a 3-4 cu ft sealed box and it was very nice.
> * anyone use the gti1200 or gti1500 in an ib setup?*


Thought about it, I have one but the 7mm of xmax scares me a bit. That and I won't do that to my M5, my other car is a pickup, and I am starting to look for a different house.


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## Vestax (Aug 16, 2005)

I'm sorry, but can somebody post the link to the 8" B&C neo driver that npdang is nutting about?


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

http://www.usspeaker.com/B&C-8NDL51-1.htm


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

just wish it was 4 ohm


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

newtitan said:


> just wish it was 4 ohm


With a 94db sensitivity does it really matter that much? Or you could go with the 8nw51 which has a 96.5db sensitivity.
http://www.usspeaker.com/B&C-8NW51-1.htm


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

ca90ss said:


> With a 94db sensitivity does it really matter that much? Or you could go with the 8nw51 which has a 96.5db sensitivity.
> http://www.usspeaker.com/B&C-8NW51-1.htm


I've tried both, and while they're both top-tier drivers I think the 8NDL51 has a cleaner-sounding motor. Also, when used as one typically would in-car (down to ~60Hz or so with EQ to lift the low end) it's easier to push the 8NW51 past its limits. Counterintuitive when one looks at the motors and the price difference, but that is my experience.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

DS-21 said:


> I've tried both, and while they're both top-tier drivers I think the 8NDL51 has a cleaner-sounding motor. Also, when used as one typically would in-car (down to ~60Hz or so with EQ to lift the low end) it's easier to push the 8NW51 past its limits. Counterintuitive when one looks at the motors and the price difference, but that is my experience.


Good to know. I've been having a hard time deciding between the two.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

The total Q on the NW51 is way too low to be used in antyhing but a ported box IMO.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Blair said:


> Precicely the woofers I have been contemplating. I just placed my order for the 4552nd compression drivers through Bill from Woodhorn. Even from the otherside of the planet he replyed to my queries almost immediately.
> 
> I also queried him about the 15N840V2 woofers. According to the BMS website, there is both a 4ohm and an 8ohm version. The 4ohm version appears better suited to my application as it has a lower fs and higher qts. Bill is making enquiries with the factory for me.


If you're looking for some inspiration, check out some of my posts online.

I've been running those B&Cs eights in my 2001 Accord for about three years now; in my 2005 Accord I'm running the BMS neodymium compression drivers.

Both systems are fairly well-documented online. I post using the monikers "patrick bateman" and "majestik6."

IMHO, the system in the 2005 Accord is head & shoulders above the 2001 Accord. The 2005 Accord has Unity waveguides loaded with the BMS compression driver and Aurasound woofers. The 2001 Accord has JBL compression drivers loaded into tractrix horns, with the B&C eights in the floor.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

Which Aura woofers are you using to mate with the BMS CD?


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## dBassHz (Nov 2, 2005)

Hey Patrick, did you ever get around to building the unity waveguide with the XT19 and the TB mids?


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## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

DS-21 said:


> . For my taste, the Excel is a bit on the sterile side of neutral, and the B&C is closer to my preference. But that's an entirely subjective judgment call.


 
I'm starting to notice we have some things in common for preference. I may have to contact you with some Q's soon.

(we may never agree on imaging, since I like alot of anklebiters,  but tonality we may be close)


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

backwoods said:


> I'm starting to notice we have some things in common for preference. I may have to contact you with some Q's soon.


Cool.


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## pupsi (Nov 22, 2006)

thanks guys, gonna try a set of these with my horns now.
anyone know where to get them from in the UK though?


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## fhl (Sep 20, 2006)

pupsi said:


> thanks guys, gonna try a set of these with my horns now.
> anyone know where to get them from in the UK though?


Pro Audio Parts. Check the price. It seem like all other drivers have a nice discount compared to R.R.P, but you get non on the 8NDL51. Misprint?

Frode


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

pupsi said:


> thanks guys, gonna try a set of these with my horns now.
> anyone know where to get them from in the UK though?


How about getting them from The Netherlands for about the same price that they are in the States:
http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.ph...ter=0&fs=0&vas=0&qts=0&xmax=0&power=0&go=gaan


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

If you want more prosound drivers to test, I have a few- JBL 2204H, IDW15s, Audax PR170M0, and PHL 2520. If you can do compression drivers I have B&C DE500s and BMS 4591s.

18Sound has some nice larger format midbasses with active inductance reduction.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

I really would like to see those Pro audio drivers tested... would be really nice to see the differences between them and the home audio drivers.

Btw, nice screen name.


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## thadman (Mar 1, 2006)

thehatedguy said:


> If you want more prosound drivers to test, I have a few- JBL 2204H, IDW15s, Audax PR170M0, and PHL 2520. If you can do compression drivers I have B&C DE500s and BMS 4591s.
> 
> 18Sound has some nice larger format midbasses with active inductance reduction.


You're the man! I'd love to see those drivers (in fact...those specifically) measured and compared to HiFi drivers!  It would make my decision making process a LOT easier!


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

I have JBL 2118's, B&C 6ndl38's, Bms 4540nd's and Bms 4552nd's that I'd be willing to send for testing.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Here is a site that has MLSSA data for a few prosound drivers...some have waterfall plots too. Not a lot of vintage drivers like the JBL 2204s and 2118s on there.

www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=49&Lng=EN

The problem you run into testing compression drivers is you will need to do the measurements on a plane-wave tube. This is a open ended tube usually 3' (1M) in length. You will get data as to how the driver is responding to the air load of the tube. Now, when you go place those drivers on horns the acoustical and therefor electrical load placed on the driver changes...and you will get different numbers and measurements. To get an accurate test, you should test the drivers on the horns you want to use them on...as the horns are impedance matching devices and will determine a lot of the performance characteristics.

Leo, for whatever do you mean?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Nevermind...without the other post, out of context.

And go to Loudspeakerplus for better pricing than US Speaker


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The problem testing compression drivers is that most baseline data is taken using a plane wave tube. Just a tube open on one end where the microphone goes. You get data like FR graphs and impedance curves, but the moment you mount those drivers to a particular horn, you get all new numbers. The horn is an impedance matching device and fluctuations of the impedance of the air in the throat of the horn (in the whole room actually) will cause changes in the FR and impedance measurements you have gotten from the PWT. The best way to get data on compression drivers is to mate them to the horn you want to use them on, and then measure the combo together.

Here is a site that has MLSSA and some other measurements for proaudio gear-

www.prodance.cz/protokoly.php?AnchorID=52&Lng=EN

Leo, whatever do you mean....lol.


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## pupsi (Nov 22, 2006)

just found some prices.
$323 if i order from usspeaker and if i get them from a distributor in the uk, its $420. a $100 difference.
you guys are soo lucky when it comes to car and home audio!


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