# Tube Preamps for mobile installations.



## Victor_inox

I`m long time tube crazy, tube amplification sounds different and magic to me. Semiconductors technology advanced so much but still warm tube sound is something i always being after.
My research showed me that only available options on the market is that to use Panny bottlehead, buy something crazy expensive like Ground zero reference 2T, build something yourself or pay someone to do it. 
All solutions have shortcomings. 
Panny is outdated, 2T is expensive and only can do 2ch.
Build it yourself has it`s challenges but doable.
Tube circuits was around for about 100 years, technology perfected almost to the point of snake oil like Mundorf caps better sounding then Auricaps
Panasonic vs Nichicon.. etc etc.. 
tube purists goes as far as not having anything semiconductors in their units. 
What I realised is that combined tech is the best for mobile installations.
tube preamp with solid state amplification sounds great and can be practical in car installs. 
after investing quite a bit of my time and money into this I came up with a couple possible solutions.
First cost must be affordable for average person.

It should be easy to insert into sound path.
and it should look good.

I used a few well regarded tube units during my years in audio, Home stage and recording so I have pretty good ideas what it should sound like.
So far I created couple solutions. it`s work in progress at this point but I do have commercial versions I can sell right now.
First will be 4 ch version built by the same principals panny did in it bottlehead. 1 double triode tube for both channels. circuit is simple and stable. power consumption is less than 1A fused at 1.5. 
Here is some pictures
case is extruded aluminum 5.75"x7.75"x2.75
all connectors on one side.
Unlike some tubes is user replaceable any 12AX7 or equivalent can be used to experiment with sound difference. By default I supply Russian military grade 12AX7 . many different tubes available on the market, US, German, tubes still in production in China, Russia and 4 european factories. That tube was used in military equipment so NOS surplus is good too. 
tubes in this design is good for 10000 hours . I chose military grade for vibration resistance purpose. If it was good for planes it will be Ok for car too. 
Each channel specs:
2 gain potentiometers for each pair 
Input sensitivity 0.1-6V 
FR [email protected] +_1 db 
THD

0.05%

S/N

95dB

I tested it with 3 different amps and 4 HU.
preamp inserted in sound path after HU before final amplification.
Tested with Dynaudio 3 way set passive.
can be used for 2way active as well, will be setting 650.6 with DSP active to try if DSP alter tube effect in any way before amplification.
Questions? 
post it here or shoot me PM.


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## Carlton8000

I wish I had saw this before I posted in the TRU amp thread. Anyhow here is what I posted. 

Tube pre in a Car! Definitely on my want to try list. Please let me know if this becomes something for sale once you get it all sorted out. As info here is a link to a power supply for Tube use in a car.

In


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## Victor_inox

BTW, amp designed made and assembled in USA. from carefully selected domestic and foreign parts. Starter price $250 for 4ch version enclosed, assembled PCB without case is 50 cheaper. 2ch version 150 for caseless PCB and 200 finished. I`m working on good solution to keep tubes visible but at this time I don`t have reliable solution short of installing cage over tubes.


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## CrossFired

SoundStream had a Tube line driver(half DIN). I had one for a few months. It had a beautiful tone to it was the engine was off. It added so much noise while the car was running! and from time to time it would give you a high voltage shock when you touched the gain knob.

I most likely had a bad copy.

http://www.soundstream.com/manuals/2006/OTHER/MTUBE8.pdf


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## Victor_inox

Carlton8000 said:


> I wish I had saw this before I posted in the TRU amp thread. Anyhow here is what I posted.
> 
> Tube pre in a Car! Definitely on my want to try list. Please let me know if this becomes something for sale once you get it all sorted out. As info here is a link to a power supply for Tube use in a car.
> 
> In


 Carlton, I`ve seen that power supply before.That PSU made for tube power amp up to 20W ch. as I tested different solutions I came to conclusion that tube pre with solid state power amps sounds the best therefore I Abandoned idea of 100% car tube amp. Milbert unit cost $3000 for a reason. 
maybe in future I could offer comparable unit for less but my plate is full for now. As I acquired Ground zero reference 2 T ($2500 MSRP) and compared it side to side with my pre into focal 150.2 DC 1000.4 and phoenix gold SD 500.4  I can tell that for a 10% of the cost of GZ I`d definitely prefer that combo to one ref 2T . 
I welcome anyone who want to take a listen to my place with whatever equipment they want to compare. I honestly think that even ref 2T sounds better with my pre then without.


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## CrossFired

Victor_inox said:


> BTW, amp designed made and assembled in USA. from carefully selected domestic and foreign parts. Starter price $250 for 4ch version enclosed, assembled PCB without case is 50 cheaper. 2ch version 150 for caseless PCB and 200 finished. I`m working on good solution to keep tubes visible but at this time I don`t have reliable solution short of installing cage over tubes.


Have you looked into the 6n6p Russian tube?

My Headphone amp uses these tubes, and they sound really nice.


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## Victor_inox

CrossFired said:


> SoundStream had a Tube line driver(half DIN). I had one for a few months. It had a beautiful tone to it was the engine was off. It added so much noise while the car was running! and from time to time it would give you a high voltage shock when you touched the gain knob.
> 
> I most likely had a bad copy.
> 
> http://www.soundstream.com/manuals/2006/OTHER/MTUBE8.pdf


 You most likely did. that where good power supply makes difference.
Similar to soundstream design used in many cheapo pro audio tube preamps.


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## thehatedguy

Can you put 12AU7s in there? Would be a bit lower gain.

Reason I ask is that I will probably never be able to put my HSS HT230 in my car...and it has brand new Mullard CV4003s in it that were Conrad Johnson graded from Upscale Audio.

Could you do a kit without tubes if the 12AU7/CV4003s would work?


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## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> Can you put 12AU7s in there? Would be a bit lower gain.
> 
> Reason I ask is that I will probably never be able to put my HSS HT230 in my car...and it has brand new Mullard CV4003s in it that were Conrad Johnson graded from Upscale Audio.
> 
> Could you do a kit without tubes if the 12AU7/CV4003s would work?


12AU is direct swap in fact I use 12 AT in my personal unit. I can do without tubes of course. since pair of tubes I use cost $20 we can subtract that. 
Conrad Johnson is design I used in one of my prototypes. Very clean minimalistic design.


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## Victor_inox

CrossFired said:


> Have you looked into the 6n6p Russian tube?
> 
> My Headphone amp uses these tubes, and they sound really nice.


Russian anything sounds nice?! What a heresy  Jokes aside
6N6P is direct equivalent ECC99 / very similar tubes, is your phone pre is something like that:Little Bear Clear 6N5P Pure Valve Tube Headphone Amplifier Amp Preamplifier P8 | eBay


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## thehatedguy

I so want one of these


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## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> I so want one of these


 paypal when you ready [email protected]


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## thehatedguy

Might be a little while...but I so want one of these.


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## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> Might be a little while...but I so want one of these.


 I have all means to keep it going, no worries. As far as I`m able to keep cost down no plans to use chinese suppliers. 
I wanted to be able to make 2ch under 100 but it simply not possible.
domestically made PCB killing that possibility but I'm in constant search for
more cost effective solutions without sacrificing usability and sound quality.


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## thehatedguy

You should do P2P on some bread boards 

Have that as the "kit" option.


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## casey

pm'd


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## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> You should do P2P on some bread boards
> 
> Have that as the "kit" option.


 breadboard kit? 
I thought about that but who would feel comfortable with such kit?
P2P is noise prone. I use extruded alu case as a shield. it`s thick and not cheap. 
besides there is a high voltage I don`t want any one electroshocked.
I can make PCB only without case but with disclaimer signed. 
open board with 300V exposed is a disaster waiting to happen AlsoI could not provide any warranty on such product. 
I can sell Empty PCB with a list of parts and disclaimer but it will be marginally cheaper than assembled design after you source all components if you do it yourself plus you have to be good at soldering and tuning that board.


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## Victor_inox

I`m one guy operations here sorry for any delays answering questions.


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## thehatedguy

I thought it was fun building the couple amp kits that I've done for the home...one was tube.

But I would probably be in the vast minority thinking such things...lol.


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## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> I thought it was fun building the couple amp kits that I've done for the home...one was tube.
> 
> But I would probably be in the vast minority thinking such things...lol.


Minorities needs will be considered as well.


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## thehatedguy

You are talking about tubes...in a car...that in and of itself are decreasing percentages of the majority...I might would be the only one who would want to build a kit. I wouldn't do it just for me.


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## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> You are talking about tubes...in a car...that in and of itself are decreasing percentages of the majority...I might would be the only one who would want to build a kit. I wouldn't do it just for me.


agreed. I just want more exposure . majority wants simple cheap installs sounds half decent. Majority needs covered pretty well by big guys. I`m not and most likely never will be. but I love music and understand musicality when I hear it. I`m not profit oriented but having hobby pay for itself is not a bad idea. One have to start somewhere right? 
My main business still in IT but I`m growing tired of it.


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## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> I thought it was fun building the couple amp kits that I've done for the home...one was tube.
> 
> But I would probably be in the vast minority thinking such things...lol.


can you imagine car amp components losely mounted on something like this o








or that








how reliable that would be?


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## MetricMuscle

What are your ideas for how it will look?
Tubes visible?
Where?

A tube amp for home HiFi is on my bucket list.


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## CrossFired

Here it is.

Schiit Audio, Headphone amps and DACs made in USA.





Victor_inox said:


> Russian anything sounds nice?! What a heresy  Jokes aside
> 6N6P is direct equivalent ECC99 / very similar tubes, is your phone pre is something like that:Little Bear Clear 6N5P Pure Valve Tube Headphone Amplifier Amp Preamplifier P8 | eBay


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## The Tube Doctor

Nicely done! 
I used the MCS (Japan) tube preamp in several installations, was always pleased with the improvements brought about by vacuum-state preamps.
Have you had time to failure-test the tube sockets mount to the PCB? 
I see that they're mounted directly to the board. I realize that chassis mounted 
tube sockets means that flying leads need to become part of the design. 
Kudos! I wish you success with this preamp. Please take care to get whatever IP protection you can on the design.


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## kappa546

Damn I think I'd be in for a 4ch too once there's some testing done by a few others outside yourself.


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## MetricMuscle

Wouldn't a pre-amp only need to be two channel?


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## Victor_inox

The Tube Doctor said:


> Nicely done!
> I used the MCS (Japan) tube preamp in several installations, was always pleased with the improvements brought about by vacuum-state preamps.
> Have you had time to failure-test the tube sockets mount to the PCB?
> I see that they're mounted directly to the board. I realize that chassis mounted
> tube sockets means that flying leads need to become part of the design.
> Kudos! I wish you success with this preamp. Please take care to get whatever IP protection you can on the design.


Thanks!
Socket pins soldered through PCB not directly on PCB no amount of reasonable vibration can kill that. tube life can be severely shortened if mounted sideways, tubes should always stay vertical. that how it was on ww2 fighters planes and nothing mechanical with human inside vibrates more violently that that. 
I give 1 year warranty on every one of them. 
I have prototype installed in the car for almost a year with zero problem.


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## kappa546

Have you tested it with full range class d amplification?


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## Victor_inox

MetricMuscle said:


> Wouldn't a pre-amp only need to be two channel?


 It would be enough but with 4 channels there are advantages.

You can do 2 way active front completely separate.
Experimenting with different tubes would be easier as you can swap only one tube and compare to other in 10 seconds time. 
I think swapping abilities is very important, try that on Buttler or 
ref2T and you looking at desoldering tubes. US amps and tru can be swappable too but they out of production and remaining amps cost much more. 

2ch version will be available in a week. it will be basically same PCB with different layout. Using both tubes – the preamp will become a 2 channel - 2 stage preamp. The first stage will be similar to what it is now and be the gain stage. The second stage will be biased differently and become the drive stage. This will let you overdrive the second stage at will using the volume control on the first stage.
simplified 1 tube 2ch version will be available later this month. I`m looking for proper enclosure for it. I finalised layout and tested. It will be less expensive too.


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## Victor_inox

kappa546 said:


> Have you tested it with full range class d amplification?


You bet! PG SD500.4 with tubes sounded so much better that focal F150.2 without.


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## Victor_inox

kappa546 said:


> Damn I think I'd be in for a 4ch too once there's some testing done by a few others outside yourself.


First pre shipped, stay tuned it won`t be long.


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## scott_fx

just showing my support for this. as soon as i figure out the cost of bodywork on my chevelle i'll explore purchasing this! would be nice to get tube sound with my zapcos (miss my butlers!)


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## Victor_inox

scott_fx said:


> just showing my support for this. as soon as i figure out the cost of bodywork on my chevelle i'll explore purchasing this! would be nice to get tube sound with my zapcos (miss my butlers!)


Thank you for your support!
Funny you mentioned that. Buttler design is nothing in comparison with active pre stage. buttler tubes works in diode mode and can be completely eliminated, amp will still sound normally to most people. I`ve had one and after I realised that Buttler is in fact "fake" tube amp I decided to make my own.
It`s imposible to a/b compare buttler with or without tubes in reasonable time frame as you`d have to desolder tubes from the board. 
What butler did for pro audio is nowhere close what he is doing with car amps. not sonically, nor electronically. He is selling his amps based on his past in pro audio, not real performance. If you were impressed by buttler amps you will be blown away by comparison.


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## scott_fx

Victor_inox said:


> Thank you for your support!
> Funny you mentioned that. Buttler design is nothing in comparison with active pre stage. buttler tubes works in diode mode and can be completely eliminated, amp will still sound normally to most people. I`ve had one and after I realised that Buttler is in fact "fake" tube amp I decided to make my own.
> It`s imposible to a/b compare buttler with or without tubes in reasonable time frame as you`d have to desolder tubes from the board.
> What butler did for pro audio is nowhere close what he is doing with car amps. not sonically, nor electronically. He is selling his amps based on his past in pro audio, not real performance. If you were impressed by buttler amps you will be blown away by comparison.


hmm... well i've been deceived! I have a couple tube amps for my headphones (millet starvign student) and also a tube amp for my home stereo. I'm going to look forward to this! I did upgrade from cdt passive componets pushed from a xtant x603 (75wrms) to seas grnx's with the td1500's (150 wrms). i guess there were a lot of factors that changed. 

hopefully my body work wont consume my entire budget! I'll have to try to find a spot for this up in the dash. I have zapco amps, would it be unrealistic to convert this to balanced?


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## DBlevel

Interesting, PM sent


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## Victor_inox

right now I have one in my basement connected to Adcom 5800 playing Jaco so nicely. 
Design will be constantly improved, so if you have any ideas - share it here or PM. 
I think I`ll make one with meters for easy tuning. 
these are mine too:


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## Velozity

CrossFired said:


> Here it is.
> 
> Schiit Audio, Headphone amps and DACs made in USA.





That's the schiit!



Sorry, I had to...



Victor I want one of the 4 channel preamps. I have two very special dual-mono amps on the way and I think this preamp may just put me over the top in terms of sonic nirvana. Have one available to ship tomorrow?


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## scott_fx

that is pretty awesome


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## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> That's the schiit!
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I had to...
> 
> 
> 
> Victor I want one of the 4 channel preamps. I have two very special dual-mono amps on the way and I think this preamp may just put me over the top in terms of sonic nirvana. Have one available to ship tomorrow?


I agree that is the ****! nicely priced too. but it`s not 12 Volts version. It used 24 V wall wart. Can be used for with dc-dc voltage converter though. 

Believe it or not I sold all I`ve had on hand. next bunch in a week. 
If you pay this week your`s will be shipped with next bunch.


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## scott_fx

Victor_inox said:


> I agree that is the ****! nicely priced too. but it`s not 12 Volts version. It used 24 V wall wart. Can be used for with dc-dc voltage converter though.
> 
> Believe it or not I sold all I`ve had on hand. next bunch in a week.
> If you pay this week your`s will be shipped with next bunch.


do yo uhave plans of having a 12v version?


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## Victor_inox

scott_fx said:


> do yo uhave plans of having a 12v version?


You not reading my friend I have 11-15V version, no mods needed. 
Velozity posted headphone pre I was referring to.


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## scott_fx

Victor_inox said:


> You not reading my friend I have 11-15V version, no mods needed.
> Velozity posted headphone pre I was referring to.



hmm... i must have gotten confused when you said..


Victor_inox said:


> but it`s *not* 12 Volts version. It used 24 V wall wart..


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## Carlton8000

Victor_inox said:


> I agree that is the ****! nicely priced too. but it`s not 12 Volts version. It used 24 V wall wart. Can be used for with dc-dc voltage converter though.
> 
> Believe it or not I sold all I`ve had on hand. next bunch in a week.
> If you pay this week your`s will be shipped with next bunch.


I am glad I got my order in. I am so looking forward to getting Victor's tube pre. For over a year I have been scouring the net looking for something like this. Victor thanks again for your prompt reply to my inquiry.


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## Victor_inox

scott_fx said:


> hmm... i must have gotten confused when you said..


Schiit Audio, Headphone amps and DACs made in USA.


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## scott_fx

Victor_inox said:


> Schiit Audio, Headphone amps and DACs made in USA.


oh... got ya now. thought you were saying yours wasn't 12 volt... not the schiit. i'm clear now


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## Victor_inox

Carlton8000 said:


> I am glad I got my order in. I am so looking forward to getting Victor's tube pre. For over a year I have been scouring the net looking for something like this. Victor thanks again for your prompt reply to my inquiry.


 When I exhausted my searching abilities I realised that no one does exactly that. something can be adopted and way more money. 
Your will be out of the door on Monday. I hope you`ll enjoy it as I do.


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## Victor_inox

I`m back.


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## james2266

Hmm, tubes in a car have intrigued me for a few years now and that is without knowing what tubes actually do to the sound. I really wish I could hear first hand what the 'tube sound' is. Anyways, your video sounded incredible but that was just a video. Any idea of what one of these would do for my setup? My thoughts were to put it just before my h800. Likely taking 2 channels from my Pioneer nav and running through your 2 channel preamp and into my h800 and then back to my two amps to power everything active (3 way front + sub and soon likely center too)


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## Victor_inox

Answering many tube related questions:
Tubes can get expensive in search for perfect sound.
here is one example:Quad General Electric Five Star 1960&apos;s USA 5751 5751A 12AX7 Audio Tubes New | eBay
these guys pretty awesome. older than most of you here. 
some NOS tubes can get crazy. sounds the best though and price reflects it
Matched Pair U Foil Getters General Electric 12AX7 ECC83 Tubes 1950&apos;s US | eBay


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## james2266

Any chance of inducing noise/hiss due to your preamp too?


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## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Hmm, tubes in a car have intrigued me for a few years now and that is without knowing what tubes actually do to the sound. I really wish I could hear first hand what the 'tube sound' is. Anyways, your video sounded incredible but that was just a video. Any idea of what one of these would do for my setup? My thoughts were to put it just before my h800. Likely taking 2 channels from my Pioneer nav and running through your 2 channel preamp and into my h800 and then back to my two amps to power everything active (3 way front + sub and soon likely center too)


:Common it was just a video taken with samsung phone..... thank you though..
I don`t see why it wouldn`t work with your particular setup. 
It works great before DSP. at least one i tested it with. ZAPCO DC1000.4 and Dc 650.6.


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## BTA

Interesting. Any pics of the power/ground/remote connections? Is it just the wires off the side or a terminal strip?


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## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Any chance of inducing noise/hiss due to your preamp too?


 It will depend on tubes. as it is there no noise I can hear with 400W adcom at full blast. HU connected to pre and turned off, pre gains set on full from there to adcom maybe a speck of something if you put your ear next to the speaker. but at that power you can blow your eardrums if accidently music started. if turning on HU introduced any noise that you you should look into HU or ground problem.
All tubes noisier than transistors. some better that others. I test every unit before it shipped. all tubes selected within 5%. 1% tubes available on request but honestly that difference is inaudible and will make a hole in your wallet.


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## Victor_inox

BTA said:


> Interesting. Any pics of the power/ground/remote connections? Is it just the wires off the side or a terminal strip?


there no remote connection, no need for one. amp consume less then 1 A. 
connect it to switched line and by the time your music started playing tubes will be preheated. and volume gradually increased to preset value. I can make time delay but that will increase cost.


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## Velozity

Which tubes would you suggest we try if we want to experiment with the sound? Do you have any you could sell with the preamp?


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## thehatedguy

What kind of sound do you want? 

Answer that and I can point you in a few directions.


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## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Which tubes would you suggest we try if we want to experiment with the sound? Do you have any you could sell with the preamp?


 I use 12AT7 in my own unit, they have lower gain but with 5V HU and0.8V sensitive amp it`s OK. I listen at 20-30 % volume most of the time. 
12AU7 would work as well, as probably any 12 A anything 7 will. 
with endless path of sound perfection you will blame me for your addiction.
two ebay links for Old_guy_radiola tubes I posted shows pretty much as good as they get. tubedepot.com has very nice choices too. not as expensive. beauty is that you might like the sound of $5 chinese current production tubes best.I doubt that but everything possible. I think that they sounds half decent. 
I `m in constant search for perfection and I spend stupid money on tubes. 
I can sell you what I like best NOS RCA or GE 1960`s tubes if you up to 300 price tag. I have no control over NOS tubes prices.


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## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> What kind of sound do you want?
> 
> Answer that and I can point you in a few directions.


good one hated!


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## CrossFired

Hello Vic, have you thought about using an AC Overdrive as a base, then design a tube drive circuit with some miniature type tubes. I have a home tube buffer that uses 6112 mini tubes, and it sounds like audio honey.

Qty 100 of 6112 Subminiature Dual Triode Tube | eBay






Victor_inox said:


> Thanks!
> Socket pins soldered through PCB not directly on PCB no amount of reasonable vibration can kill that. tube life can be severely shortened if mounted sideways, tubes should always stay vertical. that how it was on ww2 fighters planes and nothing mechanical with human inside vibrates more violently that that.
> I give 1 year warranty on every one of them.
> I have prototype installed in the car for almost a year with zero problem.


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## thehatedguy

Vacuum Tubes - Upscale Audio

Look through the 12A family- the AT7 is the lowest gain, AU7 is middle gain, and AX7 has the highest gain. 

For my HSS amp, I replaced the EH 12AU7s with Mullard CV4003s that are the stricter CJ selected. The CV4003 is a British military version of the AU7. Similar to how JAN tubes are the US military tubes (Joint Army Navy).


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## Victor_inox

CrossFired said:


> Hello Vic, have you thought about using an AC Overdrive as a base, then design a tube drive circuit with some miniature type tubes. I have a home tube buffer that uses 6112 mini tubes, and it sounds like audio honey.
> 
> Qty 100 of 6112 Subminiature Dual Triode Tube | eBay


I like sub mini tubes but choices are limited and supply scarce. no easy replacement as well. best thing is that they consume so little amp can be run on 9V battery. Also these tube very microphonic. it doesn`t matter for headphone amp but could be disappointment for in car install. 
they do sound nice but I target for incredible. 
It`s a myth that only expensive tube amps sounds good.
I remember my parent had old console radio, that **** was so good I`d pay stupid money for the same unit to restore and put in my bedroom.


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## thehatedguy

TUBEMAN.COM is a good source
www.tubeworld.com
www.mcshanedesign.net/tubes.htm

In addition to Upscale Audio are good sellers of tubes.


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## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> TUBEMAN.COM is a good source
> www.tubeworld.com
> Tube & Information Page
> 
> In addition to Upscale Audio are good sellers of tubes.


thank you! for links now I`ll spend even more.


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## thehatedguy

I've seen preamp kits that use the mini tubes, but like Victor said, they were highly microphonic...and I really don't know if you want that kind of goodness going on in your audio system. But the kits were pretty low voltage...and I really thought about it for a while.

I wonder if this preamp could replace the opamps in the outputs of my Denon deck...always wanted a tubed Denon.


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## thehatedguy

Those are just the ones I remembered from 6 years a go when I bought tubes. 

I mean you have the standard places like Tube Depot and stuff, but those other guys have the good hard to find esoteric stuff.



Victor_inox said:


> thank you! for links now I`ll spend even more.


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## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> I've seen preamp kits that use the mini tubes, but like Victor said, they were highly microphonic...and I really don't know if you want that kind of goodness going on in your audio system. But the kits were pretty low voltage...and I really thought about it for a while.
> 
> I wonder if this preamp could replace the opamps in the outputs of my Denon deck...always wanted a tubed Denon.


 I should try that. I don`t see much problems.


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## ryyo

Very interested. Waiting to hear feedback from those that have ordered on their impressions (and to save some money so I can afford this)


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## thehatedguy

Let me know how it turns out.

You want to borrow one to play with?


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## Victor_inox

taking picture in complete darkness with $200 camera is a *****.
but if this is not magical i don`t know what is.
it`s like looking on fire.


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## thehatedguy

UTS - Universal Tube Output Stage | DIY HiFi Supply

Was the inspiration for wanting to tube my Denon...but couldn't do the PS for the HV.


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## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> Let me know how it turns out.
> 
> You want to borrow one to play with?


 sure.


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## Velozity

Holy shiz, I feel like I'm opening a whole new hornets nest for myself. Yes I can see this becoming a money pit very easily. Damn I love being an audiophile! (on a budget )


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## Velozity

Wow, is this a normal market price for these?

Telefunken ECC803S Matched Pair The Holy Grail of 12AX7 Same Codes | eBay


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## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Holy shiz, I feel like I'm opening a whole new hornets nest for myself. There's a whole tube subculture out there. Yes I can see this becoming a money pit very easily. Damn I love being an audiophile! (on a budget )


welcome to the madness of beautiful tube world. read more don`t spend your money just yet. find some local people who can demo you some good ****. you will be hooked for sure. 
I`m listening to ****ing jaco SACD not stop since noon today, that guy knows how to play good music. and when it sounds like it should even better.
Sadly my wife don`t share my craziness, she don`t care if it`s earbuds or $100000worth system. like most women. good thing she is in the mountains skiing for the rest of the week so I can listen to anything I want at volume I like.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Wow, is this a normal market price for these?
> 
> Telefunken ECC803S Matched Pair The Holy Grail of 12AX7 Same Codes | eBay


 300 for quality rest for the name. telefunken was maker of the best tubes.
Only old stock is available. no new tubes made in decades.
but shipping is free, what a bargain! Now I want it!. No I don`t.
I`d start with something like that first:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electro-Harmonix-12AX7-ECC83-pre-amp-tubes-Gold-Pin-NEW-Matched-Pair-/161022320967?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

these implement every tech known to make good tubes and they current production. I use the same but without gold pins in my production amps.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Wow, is this a normal market price for these?
> 
> Telefunken ECC803S Matched Pair The Holy Grail of 12AX7 Same Codes | eBay


Imagine you have $50000 LP player and vintage amplifier costing more than everything average person owns, what tubes would you want in your amp? 
do they really sounds like $700 tubes? that only you can decide, I`ll stick with american made NOS at $100-$150 a piece.
but keep in mind when those gone they gone for good. Currently made tesla tubes is not bad at all so is Russian, I think I`m good until I deaf or dead.


----------



## piyush7243

Was so waiting for this. Finally going to use these in sometime. Would need 1 Mid May. Any tube upgrade options that we can go for. My music basically comprises instruments and pronounced vocal tracks. Example Hotel California... Won't get anyone with tubes here to experiment.


----------



## Victor_inox

piyush7243 said:


> Was so waiting for this. Finally going to use these in sometime. Would need 1 Mid May. Any tube upgrade options that we can go for. My music basically comprises instruments and pronounced vocal tracks. Example Hotel California... Won't get anyone with tubes here to experiment.


 Electro harmonix i supply is great starter tubes, it`s not junk, it will be good enough for start. then you can go crazy from there. 
I`m working with one of well known people in tube industry on getting a deal on good NOS tubes at discount but that would take at least 20 sets to get any appreciable one. 
my collection of tubes worth a price of average brand new car and I will never part with it.my insurance agent refuse to insure it for market value.


----------



## Victor_inox

piyush7243 said:


> Was so waiting for this. Finally going to use these in sometime. Would need 1 Mid May. Any tube upgrade options that we can go for. My music basically comprises instruments and pronounced vocal tracks. Example Hotel California... Won't get anyone with tubes here to experiment.


original hotel california or modern, 4 guitar version? they recorded so differently.


----------



## Velozity

Ok I'm going into overload reading through tube sites for the last hour. Very cool and I think I'm going to have fun with this. PM coming Vic.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Ok I'm going into overload reading through tube sites for the last hour. Very cool and I think I'm going to have fun with this. PM coming Vic.


told ya!


----------



## piyush7243

Victor_inox said:


> Electro harmonix i supply is great starter tubes, it`s not junk, it will be good enough for start. then you can go crazy from there.
> I`m working with one of well known people in tube industry on getting a deal on good NOS tubes at discount but that would take at least 20 sets to get any appreciable one.
> my collection of tubes worth a price of average brand new car and I will never part with it.my insurance agent refuse to insure it for market value.


The EH are nice tubes and very correctly said a beginners choice. It would be nice to mix these with some Tung Sol's and see what comes out of it. But as we know its all about the system one has.

I like the older version more than the other version. Things like Drums, Flutes, Guitar definition is what i am looking for


----------



## Victor_inox

piyush7243 said:


> The EH are nice tubes and very correctly said a beginners choice. It would be nice to mix these with some Tung Sol's and see what comes out of it. But as we know its all about the system one has.
> 
> I like the older version more than the other version


 each pair of ch use 1 tube, comparison is a breeze. on the fly, just turn it off before pulling hot tube.


----------



## piyush7243

Velozity said:


> Ok I'm going into overload reading through tube sites for the last hour. Very cool and I think I'm going to have fun with this. PM coming Vic.


Me too...


----------



## thehatedguy

My HSS has the Mullards in the preamp and Winged C 6550s for the power tubes...replaced EH 12Au7s and EH KT88s.

Victor just gave you a free sample of audio crack, and you will trying to feed that addiction more than anything else...tube rolling is fun and can be expensive. Luckily the 12A family is really common and plentiful.

Well until you start going down the Telefunken Bugle Boy NOS Clear Top RCA stuff.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> My HSS has the Mullards in the preamp and Winged C 6550s for the power tubes...replaced EH 12Au7s and EH KT88s.
> 
> Victor just gave you a free sample of audio crack, and you will trying to feed that addiction more than anything else...tube rolling is fun and can be expensive. Luckily the 12A family is really common and plentiful.
> 
> Well until you start going down the Telefunken Bugle Boy NOS Clear Top RCA stuff.


like this


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> That's the schiit!


now when i think about it i should name mine Tits
as soon as I release a version with two tubes sticking out i`ll do that I think.


----------



## Victor_inox

for the price I`d try this pair:Pair 1960s RCA 12AU7 Vacuum Tubes with Matched Sections Close Values | eBay
I bought from this guy before, great service. and he stands behind his product.


----------



## Victor_inox

for the price I`d try this pair:Pair 1960s RCA 12AU7 Vacuum Tubes with Matched Sections Close Values | eBay

60&apos;s Amperex Bugleboy 12AX7 ECC83 Match PR Super Specimens Test at Hi Levels | eBay
price is cheap because seller worded his description I believe to be NOS.
It might be used but if it tested strong it doesn`t matter. tube are like diamonds- forever.


----------



## FG79

Victor, I was told that the Milbert tube crossover can be modified without much difficulty to act as a pre-amp. 

Have you looked into that? It's a great product.


----------



## Victor_inox

FG79 said:


> Victor, I was told that the Milbert tube crossover can be modified without much difficulty to act as a pre-amp.
> 
> Have you looked into that? It's a great product.


Thank you for suggestion, it has name recognition must be a good unit. 
i haven`t, have you looked at the price? topology of a tube section as far as I can tell looking at the pictures is similar. used 22-23 years old units goes on ebay for 500-600 do they sounds better? I doubt it. who need analog crossover with modern DSP? my goal is to provide affordable/reliable solution for those in search for tube nirvana. do I position my pres as high end? not yet. I do know that I can produce cheaper with outstanding sound quality and without bells and whistles no one going to use anyway like analog crossover. Milbert unit was designed at least 25 years ago. I know that my power supply less noisier and more stable for under/over voltage conditions.
some parts used in PSU was not available 25 years ago. 
I could of course advertise in car audio magazines but guess who will pay for it? you got it, increased cost of doing business passed on customers, there no way around it. chinese could make something like this cheaper, I`m sure, their abilities of cutting corners amazing sometimes. counterfeit capacitors looks like real deal but fail tests. I source my parts at mouser and digikey mostly, reliable american retailers. I value my reputation more than anything and prefer to keep it that way.
good night everybody, I`m done for the night!


----------



## CrossFired

I thought the Electro harmonix are made in Russia?




Victor_inox said:


> Electro harmonix i supply is great starter tubes, it`s not junk, it will be good enough for start. then you can go crazy from there.
> I`m working with one of well known people in tube industry on getting a deal on good NOS tubes at discount but that would take at least 20 sets to get any appreciable one.
> my collection of tubes worth a price of average brand new car and I will never part with it.my insurance agent refuse to insure it for market value.


----------



## Victor_inox

CrossFired said:


> I thought the Electro harmonix are made in Russia?


yes. Is there a problem with that? I don`t get it from my post you quoted. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

I`m constantly at search for improvements.
if there anything worth upgrading I`d do it for free for a year after purchase. keep you paypal payment info for a year. for warranty and upgrade reasons. Obviously it can be done after warranty runs out at your dime. 
BTW until you have it installed in your car you can use it at home setup with 1A 12 V wall wart. I can provide socket like this








One like this will work for $3.shipped fron china:http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-100V-240V-DC-12V-1A-Switching-Power-Supply-Adapter-US-Plug-5-5mmX2-5mm-/181371305620?pt=Travel_Adapters_Converters&hash=item2a3a927e94


----------



## Velozity

^^^ That's good customer service right thar! Keep it up and you might build quite a following. I'm heading over to Paypal now to secure my pre. So what- if anything- are you going to call this? Have a model number or marketing name in mind?


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> ^^^ That's good customer service right thar! Keep it up and you might build quite a following. I'm heading over to Paypal now to secure my pre. So what- if anything- are you going to call this? Have a model number or marketing name in mind?


 I certanly planning on that or why would I start all that. 
Shiit already taken, I was thinking something like Tits. double tubes looks like a pair to me. 1 or 4 tubes version I don`t know. open to suggestions.


----------



## Velozity

I used this in my Paypal payment: VK-4T mk1 Pre-amp, lol.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> I used this in my Paypal payment: VK-4T mk1 Pre-amp, lol.


that works for now.


----------



## Victor_inox

tell me your preferences when ordering if you want wires sticking out or this installed?
I think anyone in this hobby capable of soldering 2 wires into jack? center positive.


----------



## Carlton8000

Given a choice I would prefer the jack.


----------



## Victor_inox

Carlton8000 said:


> Given a choice I would prefer the jack.


you will.


----------



## Carlton8000

Victor, thanks much appreciated.


----------



## Velozity

Carlton8000 said:


> Given a choice I would prefer the jack.



Ditto.


----------



## CrossFired

Victor_inox said:


> Russian anything sounds nice?! What a heresy  Jokes aside
> 6N6P is direct equivalent ECC99 / very similar tubes, is your phone pre is something like that:Little Bear Clear 6N5P Pure Valve Tube Headphone Amplifier Amp Preamplifier P8 | eBay





Victor_inox said:


> yes. Is there a problem with that? I don`t get it from my post you quoted.


It just looked as if you did not care for Russian anything. Guess I misread your post.

I've got close to 500 Russian tubes from the mid 60's~mid 70's(best years imo).


----------



## james2266

Ok, I have been really thinking about this all day now. Thanks. Got a few questions on this regarding temperature now. I know you addressed vibration issues as not being of concern with this in a vehicle but what about massive temp. fluctuations? I am most concerned about massive cold than anything but also extreme heat too. I have a few locations in mind for this if I get it and one of them is below my floor near my amps but that would have little to no circulating air. The other possibility is under the driver's seat if it is not too tall to fit. As for cold, I am worried about our nasty cold mornings during winter here. It is not uncommon to see -40C here for fairly long stretches.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Ok, I have been really thinking about this all day now. Thanks. Got a few questions on this regarding temperature now. I know you addressed vibration issues as not being of concern with this in a vehicle but what about massive temp. fluctuations? I am most concerned about massive cold than anything but also extreme heat too. I have a few locations in mind for this if I get it and one of them is below my floor near my amps but that would have little to no circulating air. The other possibility is under the driver's seat if it is not too tall to fit. As for cold, I am worried about our nasty cold mornings during winter here. It is not uncommon to see -40C here for fairly long stretches.


-40C is not a problem, tubes will preheat a little longer 30 seconds instead of 10. volume will increase gradually. +50C should be OK too? I can put in in the oven for an hour let`s say at 160F. As with any electronics if you expect extreme conditions you should use fan . Ill think about it some more and maybe will put fan into the chassis. BUt I need to test it some more. dc motor with close proximity to tubes could be a bad thing. ONly real test will tell. Tubes can withstand very harsh conditions, I can supply military grade tubes. they survived sahara desert in WW2. I`ll checkif low temp solder used anywhere on PCB but I doubt it.


----------



## james2266

That's good to hear about the cold not being an issue. I have heard that tubes produce a crapload of heat tho so enclosing this thing in a false floor might not be a good idea. I'll have to make sure it will go under the seat I guess or find another install spot. 

I hope this isn't a dumb question as I don't know if tubes can be used on a digital signal but I was wondering if this could be made to take an optical input and output digital as well. I have a feeling I will be running one of those new Alpine nav units with my h800 in the future and likely keeping things digital all the way back to my processor. I do think it might be cool to be able to use one of these running a single rca set from the head and also running toslink straight back to the processor for both comparisons to the tube/analogue and 5.1 from dvd audio files. The first part there would be the geek in me.:laugh:


----------



## Velozity

james2266 said:


> That's good to hear about the cold not being an issue. I have heard that tubes produce a crapload of heat tho so enclosing this thing in a false floor might not be a good idea. I'll have to make sure it will go under the seat I guess or find another install spot.
> 
> I hope this isn't a dumb question as I don't know if tubes can be used on a digital signal but I was wondering if this could be made to take an optical input and output digital as well. I have a feeling I will be running one of those new Alpine nav units with my h800 in the future and likely keeping things digital all the way back to my processor. I do think it might be cool to be able to use one of these running a single rca set from the head and also running toslink straight back to the processor for both comparisons to the tube/analogue and 5.1 from dvd audio files. The first part there would be the geek in me.:laugh:




I guess it's possible to add a DAC at the input and a ADC at the output but I'm not sure what the point of that device would be. It's not really a pre-amp anymore. However it would be nice to have a DAC on the input though. But then you'd have to use the pots as volume control and it would need to be mounted up front or tethered somehow. It would be like having a Peachtree NovaPre for the car!


----------



## james2266

Velozity said:


> I guess it's possible to add a DAC at the input and a ADC at the output but I'm not sure what the point of that device would be. It's not really a pre-amp anymore. However it would be nice to have a DAC on the input though. But then you'd have to use the pots as volume control and it would need to be mounted up front or tethered somehow. It would be like having a Peachtree NovaPre for the car!


Um, yeah, scratch that idea then I guess. No way I am mounting this up front and using its pots for volume control. Still would be interesting to use it on the analogue out of a nav unit and compare it to the optical out of the same unit. It's likely in my future if I can make it fit somewhere. Someone needs to do a review on one of these soon.:blush:


----------



## Victor_inox

power tubes produce heat, pre tubes actually touchable after working all day.
I can supply pre and you can do whatever you please with it. I can also supply whatever knowledge I possess on the subject. 
Unit with DAC on input is something I`ll be looking into. 
But you have keep in mind that I`m 1 guy operations right now. 
I do research,development, finding and negotiating with suppliers, most manufacturing, quality control, marketing, sales,shipping and receiving, accounting, warranty issues ( not any at this time) thankfully. 
I`m not a part of HArman international, Alpine, etc... ONly so much one guy can do, even a workaholic like myself. 
I think it`s best to concentrate on one line of product make it right and progress from there.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> However it would be nice to have a DAC on the input though. But then you'd have to use the pots as volume control and it would need to be mounted up front or tethered somehow. It would be like having a Peachtree NovaPre for the car!


 I was thinking on single din unit doing exactly that. Now if I can find single din enclosure I could start making layout into.. making electronics without case.... no thank you!


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Um, yeah, scratch that idea then I guess. No way I am mounting this up front and using its pots for volume control. Still would be interesting to use it on the analogue out of a nav unit and compare it to the optical out of the same unit. It's likely in my future if I can make it fit somewhere. Someone needs to do a review on one of these soon.:blush:


I posted case measurements, did you see it? 2.75" should fit under most seats. First units shipped I was promised review soon.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> power tubes produce heat, pre tubes actually touchable after working all day.
> I can supply pre and you can do whatever you please with it. I can also supply whatever knowledge I possess on the subject.
> Unit with DAC on input is something I`ll be looking into.
> But you have keep in mind that I`m 1 guy operations right now.
> I do research,development, finding and negotiating with suppliers, most manufacturing, quality control, marketing, sales,shipping and receiving, accounting, warranty issues ( not any at this time) thankfully.
> I`m not a part of HArman international, Alpine, etc... ONly so much one guy can do, even a workaholic like myself.
> I think it`s best to concentrate on one line of product make it right and progress from there.


Totally understand. How much is the 2 channel version anyway with rca in and out with your standard tubes as I have absolutely no experience with tubes (can ya tell) and have no clue what entails a good tube versus a great one. I'm sure your choice will be awesome in my books that is if I like the tube sound. I don't think this is too much of a gamble especially with you truly standing behind your product. Would be cool if I could use it in the car or at home too (if that is possible).


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Totally understand. How much is the 2 channel version anyway with rca in and out with your standard tubes as I have absolutely no experience with tubes (can ya tell) and have no clue what entails a good tube versus a great one. I'm sure your choice will be awesome in my books that is if I like the tube sound. I don't think this is too much of a gamble especially with you truly standing behind your product. Would be cool if I could use it in the car or at home too (if that is possible).


James, all information you asking was posted in there, read it please. 
tubes was covered on 2 pages. 
Gamble? 30 days money back. just like any retailer in US. 
i`m that confident most people will love it. You can use it at home as well but for home use I have separate unit.cheaper too. Gonna be selling around 150. 
I will not install leds under tube sockets because leds produce noise. it does looks cool if you into fake coolness. First pres I was buying assembled from china, cheap crap. scary cheap components and horrible assembly. Sound quality on couple of them was decent for the price. 
this one sounds good actually even with chinese tubes. with good tubes would be a jewell.
Silk Audio MS 12B Tube Pre Amplifier with RIAA Phono Brand New | eBay


----------



## Victor_inox

If you need preamp with DAC on input look into this unit, I can`t make such unit for 120bucks. you`ll need dc-dc12 to dc24V convereter Sense G1 Vacuum Tube Headphone Preamplifier USB DAC 2012 Version Brand New | eBay
or this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DAC-01A-24B..._Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item4aca1e1fb3


----------



## Kevin K

I had just made the comment to a friend this week about looking into a tube preamp for the car and wondered what was out there and thinking about looking to build my own.

Great work there, nice that you had a pcb layed out for a neat and clean placement. Very interested. Did you pay for the pcb layout to be done? Or is it a common layout? Are you placing parts by hand yourself?


----------



## Victor_inox

CrossFired said:


> It just looked as if you did not care for Russian anything. Guess I misread your post.
> 
> I've got close to 500 Russian tubes from the mid 60's~mid 70's(best years imo).



You just missed sarcasm. 60-70th is a golden age for tubes.
tubes of that period are good once.


----------



## CrossFired

Victor_inox said:


> You just missed sarcasm. 60-70th is a golden age for tubes.
> tubes of that period are good once.


I've been Buying Testing/matching and selling Russian tubes since 1999. I've found anything after 78 starts sounding pretty flat/lifeless. and anything before 62 seem to have much higher reliability issues.


----------



## Victor_inox

Kevin K said:


> I had just made the comment to a friend this week about looking into a tube preamp for the car and wondered what was out there and thinking about looking to build my own.
> 
> Great work there, nice that you had a pcb layed out for a neat and clean placement. Very interested. Did you pay for the pcb layout to be done? Or is it a common layout? Are you placing parts by hand yourself?


THank you for compliment.
I`ll ignore these questions if you don`t mind.


You just have to learn about it and do it. 


I`m thinking on selling kits for those loving to play with soldering.


----------



## Victor_inox

CrossFired said:


> I've been Buying Testing/matching and selling Russian tubes since 1999. I've found anything after 78 starts sounding pretty flat/lifeless. and anything before 62 seem to have much higher reliability issues.


 agreed, but that applies to US made tubes as well. Isn``t that a reason why NOS cost that much? 
lifeless sound you mentioning was mostly due to changes in production techniques without adapting circuits to changes. 

Tubes made in late 70 early 80 sounded best on circuits designed at the same time period. THe problem is that very few tube circuits were designed after semi- conductors storm the market. tube designs seised at that time.
semi conductors almost killed that industry just like quarts watch revolution killed mechanical watches. It`s coming back right now but very slowly. 
It the late 80 I bought Russian made tube power amplifier, it was 50w/ch and I`d pay stupid money for it today. too bad I can`t find it anywhere. 
I think it used KT88 tubes but I'm not certain.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Ditto.


 You too. 
I can make changes to almost anything. 
If you guys think of anything.


----------



## Victor_inox

I`ll have updated slightly version by the end of the month. 
1.1 version will have gold plated RCA . I`m also thinking of PCB mounted power jack but knowing that is common problem spot for laptops I`m not sure. Also RCA can be mounted on case for the same reason, better reliability.


----------



## CrossFired

The story I got from a Russian guy, was that in the early 80's an order went out to all factories to save money! use less gold, less thorium, and less anything else that uses precious metal.

And I know what you mean about tube prices, as I bought some Russian branded KT88 like tubes for $.25 each in the early 80's(while in Kiev).

When I got back home, I sold them for a quick $25. each. Today they'd be $200. each.

And I know of other tubes that went up 5000%



Victor_inox said:


> agreed, but that applies to US made tubes as well. Isn``t that a reason why NOS cost that much?
> lifeless sound you mentioning was mostly due to changes in production techniques without adapting circuits to changes.
> 
> Tubes made in late 70 early 80 sounded best on circuits designed at the same time period. THe problem is that very few tube circuits were designed after semi- conductors storm the market. tube designs seised at that time.
> semi conductors almost killed that industry just like quarts watch revolution killed mechanical watches. It`s coming back right now but very slowly.
> It the late 80 I bought Russian made tube power amplifier, it was 50w/ch and I`d pay stupid money for it today. too bad I can`t find it anywhere.
> I think it used KT88 tubes but I'm not certain.


----------



## Victor_inox

That`s sound about right. Maybe if demand increase they will resurrect quality tubes production.


----------



## Velozity

Victor_inox said:


> You too.
> I can make changes to almost anything.
> If you guys think of anything.





Victor_inox said:


> I`ll have updated slightly version by the end of the month.
> 1.1 version will have gold plated RCA . I`m also thinking of PCB mounted power jack but knowing that is common problem spot for laptops I`m not sure. Also RCA can be mounted on case for the same reason, better reliability.



Well everything you mentioned is desirable in the long run, but not critical for me right now. So yeah if I had a wish list for the cosmetics of this product it would be:

Case mounted RCA jacks
Case mounted power jacks with set screw type connector
Case mounted pots with aluminum knobs
28mm+ hole in cover above each tube to show off the glow. Holes covered by plexi or speaker grille material (I plan to modify mine like this anyway )
Rubber mounting feet to help isolate vibration


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Well everything you mentioned is desirable in the long run, but not critical for me right now. So yeah if I had a wish list for the cosmetics of this product it would be:
> 
> Case mounted RCA jacks
> In the works, I`ll try to ship yours that way.
> Case mounted power jacks with set screw type connector
> Find one at mouser or digikey and I`ll do it as well.
> Case mounted pots with aluminum knobs
> easy one too. I just preferred for pots not to stick out too far.
> 28mm+ hole in cover above each tube to show off the glow. Holes covered by plexi or speaker grille material (I plan to modify mine like this anyway )
> Not all tubes glowing at the top, EH I supply glows really visible from the side only. tube can be mounted sideways but that will increase cost for a daughter board I was thinking about something like that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rubber mounting feet to help isolate vibration


 how is that going to help if it crewed to the rack , you are not going to just keep it seat on the surface i assume.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Im going to have to get in on this! Victor, congratulations on this amazing accomplishment my friend. This is what most all audiophiles (esp us car guys) dream of as far as an affordable SQ upgrade. Awesome! We will speak very soon about my order.

^ those cages look like something I might be able to machine. Ill give that some thought as well.


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> Im going to have to get in on this! Victor, congratulations on this amazing accomplishment my friend. This is what most all audiophiles (esp us car guys) dream of as far as an affordable SQ upgrade. Awesome! We will speak very soon about my order.
> 
> ^ those cages look like something I might be able to machine. Ill give that some thought as well.


THank you buddy, you know I was working on this for a while.
If you can machine something like that we`d have to talk. 
I prefer not having chinese suppliers. I can powdercoat these cages to whatever color. chinese only have silver and gold.


----------



## Victor_inox

I think today I found best solution for case. Imagine those mesh inserts extended to heights of the tubes. couldn't be better ventilation than that.
Will replace that tall capacitor next to the transformer in the next run. 
This is hard drive enclosure pictured. 
silver alu plate on the top and bottom. 
tube glow will be visible thru mesh, no fan needed and tubes well protected. all birds with one stone.
Velo, VK-4T mk2? what do you think?


----------



## Victor_inox

who snitched an awesome pair of buggleboys?Stupid me posted ebay link. never again. 
Damn! whoever did that enjoy!137.50 is very good deal on these.


----------



## RandyJ75

Just saw this Vic. I am very interested. I'll send you a PM when I am ready in a couple of weeks.

Good luck moving forward, looks like a great idea.

Randy


----------



## WestCo

Most processors do a decent job replicating the tube sound. This is definitely a win, please post more videos 


Visit mobileaudioforum.com for official SounDrive updates.


----------



## Velozity

Victor_inox said:


> I think today I found best solution for case. Imagine those mesh inserts extended to heights of the tubes. couldn't be better ventilation than that.
> Will replace that tall capacitor next to the transformer in the next run.
> This is hard drive enclosure pictured.
> silver alu plate on the top and bottom.
> tube glow will be visible thru mesh, no fan needed and tubes well protected. all birds with one stone.
> Velo, VK-4T mk2? what do you think?




I like that! VK-4T mkII for sure. I was watching those Bugle boys and forgot about them. Damn. I'll keep looking.


----------



## WestCo

Also it's refreshing to see everyone rally around an innovative idea. 

I will likely be begging you to make one of these in the not so distant future.


----------



## Victor_inox

RandyJ75 said:


> Just saw this Vic. I am very interested. I'll send you a PM when I am ready in a couple of weeks.
> 
> Good luck moving forward, looks like a great idea.
> 
> Randy


Thank you Randy, LMK.


----------



## radiospank

WestCo said:


> Most processors do a decent job replicating the tube sound. This is definitely a win, please post more videos
> 
> 
> Visit mobileaudioforum.com for official SounDrive updates.


Which processors?


----------



## Victor_inox

WestCo said:


> Most processors do a decent job replicating the tube sound. This is definitely a win, please post more videos
> 
> 
> Visit mobileaudioforum.com for official SounDrive updates.


There even plugins tube simulators for PC audio. 
Fake is fake
listening to tube sound recorded by cell phone Is like DSP with tube sound.
ill make more as soon as I have something else to show off. Like 4 tube version I have in the works.


----------



## james2266

I would like one of the 2 channel versions but with the aluminum case, rcas in and out mounted on the case side along with power and ground screw down terminals. Do you have such a model yet and what are the costs?


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> I would like one of the 2 channel versions but with the aluminum case, rcas in and out mounted on the case side along with power and ground screw down terminals. Do you have such a model yet and what are the costs?


not yet, stay tuned. by alu case you mean solid one with no mesh?


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> not yet, stay tuned. by alu case you mean solid one with no mesh?


Well, I just want a durable box that will protect the insides. I am not interested in staring at the tubes as they likely will not be mounted in an area to do so. If either option protects equally then I would likely go with the one that offers the most when it comes to heat dissipation. I can wait until you get one done. No rush. I kind of want to hear some opinions on this from some other people that have bought them from you. I still have no real idea of what 'tube sound' is either and whether I'll even like it or not. Might give me some time to see if I can find a hi end home audio store in town that might have a tube powered amp to show me the differences too. Could be dangerous tho too as I might end up spending a crap load more money too.:laugh:


----------



## Victor_inox

I don`t know yet how different enclosure design withstand brute force.
from engineering point of view solid box design is sturdier 
I`m looking at freeing myself from chinese suppliers. solid box made by them and off the shelf item. I think modular box design is the way to go as it will be made here and easily adjustable for design changes. heat dissipation is another important issue. I`ll made a few by hand and look for a shop to made final design in bulk.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> I don`t know yet how different enclosure design withstand brute force.
> from engineering point of view solid box design is sturdier
> I`m looking at freeing myself from chinese suppliers. solid box made by them and off the shelf item. I think modular box design is the way to go as it will be made here and easily adjustable for design changes. heat dissipation is another important issue. I`ll made a few by hand and look for a shop to made final design in bulk.


Sounds good. Just keep us up to date on developments of this. Once you get such a model ready for sale, let me know of course.


----------



## thehatedguy

You have any way of doing the following things-

Balanced input and outputs, say a miniDIN 5 plug like Zapco uses?

2 in and 4 out?


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> You have any way of doing the following things-
> 
> Balanced input and outputs, say a miniDIN 5 plug like Zapco uses?
> 
> 2 in and 4 out?


 i don`t see a point of doing that, special order maybe. 2in 4 outs? why?


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Sounds good. Just keep us up to date on developments of this. Once you get such a model ready for sale, let me know of course.


stay tuned.


----------



## thehatedguy

So I wouldn't have to use a y adapter and get tubeness on all of the amps.

But I guess I could just use a y adapter later on though.

Balanced with the mini DIN would be great for the Zapco users and soon to be users.



Victor_inox said:


> i don`t see a point of doing that, special order maybe. 2in 4 outs? why?


----------



## thehatedguy

Was just brain storming for an ultimate wish list setup.

No biggie.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> So I wouldn't have to use a y adapter and get tubeness on all of the amps.
> 
> But I guess I could just use a y adapter later on though.
> 
> Balanced with the mini DIN would be great for the Zapco users and soon to be users.


I thought zapco dropped minidin nonsense. I have every zapco dc and minidin is my least favorite feature, Y adapter will work though.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> Was just brainstorming for an ultimate wish list setup.
> 
> No biggie.



keep `em coming, every idea helps developing better product. 

I know I will not be making zapco minidin hookups, too much work to benefit a very few. Some details up to end user.


----------



## thehatedguy

They finally did, but there is so much of the older products out there though.

I know you could do the conversions passive with transformers like Edcor, Jensen, and Cinemag...although small, the transformers would probably eat up a lot of board space, and you would still have to deal with running the +/-15 volts for the transmitters that are on the cables.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> stay tuned.


I most certainly will. BTW, do you do amp repairs as well? If you do, have you experience with Audison LRx amps?


----------



## Victor_inox

I don`t. There are many very good amp repair guys around here.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> I don`t. There are many very good amp repair guys around here.


I figured I'd ask. I have talked to Tricky Ricky about this and I trust him but he hasn't worked on Audison before I guess. Still need to diagnose things and am leaning more toward a bad rca than anything with the amp now tho. Just would like to find someone for the future if needed. Precautionary.


----------



## teldzc1

The potentiometers, are they for input sensitivity? What is the max output voltage? 

I'm curious if it's going to be best between HU and DSP or between DSP and amps.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

teldzc1 said:


> The potentiometers, are they for input sensitivity? What is the max output voltage?
> 
> I'm curious if it's going to be best between HU and DSP or between DSP and amps.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


 max input Voltage is 6V but that can be customized if needed, couple resistors change at each tube circuit. then pots adjust out signal.
output is 6 V. Input could be set as sensitive as 5mV for Phono cartridge and anywhere in between. I tested with various HU from 0.2 to 6V outs. 
amps from 0.1 to 6V
input pots can be used as separate volume for each pair if desired. I prefer to set gains as you would normally and then insert tubes into chain.
before DSP is easier and cheaper if you only need 2cn.. after DSP it`s sounds better but that might vary depending on DSP.
Think about it... DSP converts analog to digital, altering signal /eq/TDA and then converts to analog. effect of your DSP on "tubeness" is unknown to me. I`d use after dsp. 
I already got one 8ch ordered and another person asking.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> max input Voltage is 6V but that can be customized if needed, couple resistors change at each tube circuit. then pots adjust out signal.
> output is 6 V. Input could be set as sensitive as 5mV for Phono cartridge and anywhere in between. I tested with various HU from 0.2 to 6V outs.
> amps from 0.1 to 6V
> input pots can be used as separate volume for each pair if desired. I prefer to set gains as you would normally and then insert tubes into chain.
> before DSP is easier and cheaper if you only need 2cn.. after DSP it`s sounds better but that might vary depending on DSP.
> Think about it... DSP converts analog to digital, altering signal /eq/TDA and then converts to analog. effect of your DSP on "tubeness" is unknown to me. I`d use after dsp.
> I already got one 8ch ordered and another person asking.


Woah, 8 channels is an option? Depending on price of this, I might be alot more interested in that actually.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Woah, 8 channels is an option? Depending on price of this, I might be alot more interested in that actually.


 Price of 2 4ch versions, no upcharge. I don`t have separate PCB for that, it`s 2 4ch amps together. two configurations 14"5" or 7"x10"


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Interesting..^


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> Interesting..^


machine shop you say, I might heed your help with custom cases such as that.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Im limited to what I can get away with here at work. I do know someone with a shop that we could get a quote from to machine custom cases but standard shop rate is $70 an hour. With any kind of R&D those numbers add up quick. If he let me do the programming it would save some coin. Lets discuss options of what you would need and ill see what I can do. If it were 8 years ago I had my own Haas mill in my home shop and I would have been happy to do it. Back then I was machining different styles in motorcycle wheels and had a deal go very bad. Ended up selling the machine to my at the time HardScape landscaping company partner to make concrete molds for his other business.


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> Im limited to what I can get away with here at work. I do know someone with a shop that we could get a quote from to machine custom cases but standard shop rate is $70 an hour. With any kind of R&D those numbers add up quick. If he let me do the programming it would save some coin. Lets discuss options of what you would need and ill see what I can do. If it were 8 years ago I had my own Haas mill in my home shop and I would have been happy to do it. Back then I was machining different styles in motorcycle wheels and had a deal go very bad. Ended up selling the machine to my at the time HardScape landscaping company partner to make concrete molds for his other business.


I`ll email you.


----------



## teldzc1

I was thinking after DSP as well. Regarding the remote. Are you saying we can just tap into a remote line for this power supply?


----------



## Victor_inox

teldzc1 said:


> I was thinking after DSP as well. Regarding the remote. Are you saying we can just tap into a remote line for this power supply?


 I believe I said switched line not remote. HU remote is up to 300mW, you will risk your HU. any switched line like you do red wire of the HU. 
turn your key in accessories pos. you hu fired up sending remote signal to your amps/dsp/ whatever else you have in the chain. pre will come up at the same time.


----------



## teldzc1

Victor_inox said:


> I believe I said switched line not remote. HU remote is up to 300mW, you will risk your HU. any switched line like you do red wire of the HU.
> turn your key in accessories pos. you hu fired up sending remote signal to your amps/dsp/ whatever else you have in the chain. pre will come up at the same time.


Ah, got it. Thanks! Keeping my eye out on this product closely.


----------



## Victor_inox

Everyone who paid by this Saturday will receive theirs amps with power plug installed and jack in the package. One you know who will also get free upgrade to gold plated case mounted RCA. 
For the life of me I can`t locate insulated screw on power terminals I could possibly replace power plug with. 
I kinda like power plug for easy tool less connection. at the end of the day you can take amp with you home and use it there. 

so far case design was most difficult part of the project. US based manufacturers too greedy, like I don`t know what it cost to produce things. 
chinese difficult to work with due to language barrier and delivery times.
I don`t have funds to build my own manufacturing facility or I would.


----------



## Velozity

Victor_inox said:


> Everyone who paid by this Saturday will receive theirs amps with power plug installed and jack in the package. One you know who will also get free upgrade to gold plated case mounted RCA.
> For the life of me I can`t locate insulated screw on power terminals I could possibly replace power plug with.
> I kinda like power plug for easy tool less connection. at the end of the day you can take amp with you home and use it there.
> 
> so far case design was most difficult part of the project. US based manufacturers too greedy, like I don`t know what it cost to produce things.
> chinese difficult to work with due to language barrier and delivery times.
> I don`t have funds to build my own manufacturing facility or I would.




 Awesome!


----------



## Victor_inox

Guys who paid me, who will be able to connect amp immediately upon receiving and give me some feedback right away? I`m thinking of some modification but need to hear your opinions first.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> Guys who paid me, who will be able to connect amp immediately upon receiving and give me some feedback right away? I`m thinking of some modification but need to hear your opinions first.


Yes, and please post those here. I am on the fence about buying one. Also deciding if I do whether to go 2 channel or splurge and go 8 channel (2x4 channel). I want to hear from some guys as to what it does for them tho first.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Yes, and please post those here. I am on the fence about buying one. Also deciding if I do whether to go 2 channel or splurge and go 8 channel (2x4 channel). I want to hear from some guys as to what it does for them tho first.


That you could be sure about.


----------



## Victor_inox

Just a few pics of finished product.
unless your RCA crazy fat they will fit in 1/2 holes, case holes making it easy to put it straight. if your RCA more then 1/2" in diameter you`ll have 2 options, send me one for fitment or take case off and using unibit make it bigger. Of course case mounted gold plated RCA will not have that problem. case mounted gold plated RCA is $25 extra
fuse is 1.5A, unscrew type.That was the only fuse holder I found locally. 

assembled pre weight about 3Lb. All orders paid upto this moment will be shipped by USPS priority. Usually I ship UPS.


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## Victor_inox

Silver anodized case available by request.


----------



## Velozity

Looking good Victor. I'll be installing mine next week Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll certainly give feedback. I'm putting in new amps also so I'll have to get a feel for their sound without the preamp first.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Looking good Victor. I'll be installing mine next week Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll certainly give feedback. I'm putting in new amps also so I'll have to get a feel for their sound without the preamp first.


What amps are those?


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Victor. Looking very nice so far! I think I personally like the silver better but im not 100% certain. Would there be any issues with the RCA touching the housing around where they connect? Looks very close.


Looking forward to hearing impressions from the guys who have them on the way and installing this week.


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> Victor. Looking very nice so far! I think I personally like the silver better but im not 100% certain. Would there be any issues with the RCA touching the housing around where they connect? Looks very close.
> 
> 
> Looking forward to hearing impressions from the guys who have them on the way and installing this week.


they are very close, I like them that way.
I don`t see any issues with RCA touching, you can use non conductive rca jackets or order case mounted rca, they isolated from ground. 
Black and silver are only colors available from supplier, I can sandblast and powdercoat in whatever color for a fee.


----------



## Velozity

Victor_inox said:


> What amps are those?




A pair of Limited Edition Zukis straight from Patrick Steele. Top of the Zuki food chain .


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> A pair of Limited Edition Zukis straight from Patrick Steele. Top of the Zuki food chain .


nice. run them for a while to get used to the sound before inserting tubes in the chain. don`t forget to reset your gains after tubes installed.


----------



## ISTundra

In for the 2ch version when it's available. Going to challenge myself to come up with a nice case design for it.
I plan to try it both in truck and also in my computer audio setup, between my AudioEngine DAC and Dynaudio powered monitors.


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> In for the 2ch version when it's available. Going to challenge myself to come up with a nice case design for it.
> I plan to try it both in truck and also in my computer audio setup, between my AudioEngine DAC and Dynaudio powered monitors.


What is your DAC out voltage and your HU? no biggie I just do`n want tube going to overdrive.minot tweaking prior to shipping might be needed. Actually I think 2tube version of 2ch will suite your setup better as you can control sensitivity with pots. 
going to share your case design? I`m working on open tube design using these cages I posted earlier for protection.


----------



## Victor_inox

Guys, when you pay with PP please include your forum screen name, I`m having hard time memorizing who is who.


----------



## ISTundra

Victor_inox said:


> What is your DAC out voltage and your HU? no biggie I just do`n want tube going to overdrive.minot tweaking prior to shipping might be needed. Actually I think 2tube version of 2ch will suite your setup better as you can control sensitivity with pots.
> going to share your case design? I`m working on open tube design using these cages I posted earlier for protection.


HU = 5V
DAC = 2V

I'll share whatever case design I come up with. With a PCB layout or even a dead board I could start modeling something.


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> HU = 5V
> DAC = 2V
> 
> I'll share whatever case design I come up with. With a PCB layout or even a dead board I could start modeling something.


no tweaking needed 5V HU and 2V dac is fine, Just be gentle with volume I can`t supply deadboard, sorry. You can get caseless amp and go from there.
I can email you pcb footprint in svg format for size reference, just download linkscape free software .


----------



## ISTundra

We have Altium Designer at work so I could use that to export the SVG as a DXF to bring it into Solidworks for a case layout.


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> We have Altium Designer at work so I could use that to export the SVG as a DXF to bring it into Solidworks for a case layout.


OK.. email?


----------



## Victor_inox

Next bunch ready for assembly, note shorter cap in power supply, newer better tubes Electro harmonix 12AXEH is higher gain than 12AX7 and sounds great. not as good as NOS telefunken or Amperex but better. they few bucks more expensive but free for you. 
Size reference given for true DIY people who wants to build enclosure themselves or use it without case.


----------



## ISTundra

Hmm... maybe a dumb question, but can you bridge the input & outputs on that 4 channel and use it as a 2 channel? If so, maybe I should just buy one of these now and develop a case for it.


----------



## cobb2819

What I'd love to see is a simple double din case with tubes visible, with the appropriate double din mounting locations on the side, and a DAC for use with a iPod or iPhone/iPad. Pull out phone, plug in, allow for charging, and 2 channel tube output with good 4+ volt output. Now let me pull out my wallet and break the bank.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Now your talking! ^ Im sure alot of guys would try and take the true "stereo" approach in car with a 2 ch version like this. But honestly, I really like the idea of what you have mentioned- direct input dac with visible tubes. This would be perfect for a recessed DD install and have a Ipad in front of it. I would want the 4 ch out version and would also pony up the doe!

Great idea Cobb2819!


----------



## cobb2819

deeppinkdiver said:


> Now your talking! ^ Im sure alot of guys would try and take the true "stereo" approach in car with a 2 ch version like this. But honestly, I really like the idea of what you have mentioned- direct input dac with visible tubes. This would be perfect for a recessed DD install and have a Ipad in front of it. I would want the 4 ch out version and would also pony up the doe!
> 
> Great idea Cobb2819!


I was thinking that in front of a DSP (with a vol control), you wouldn't need the 4 channels. This is the logic with my suggestion. If you're gonna go analog, do something like this and run to DSP to do that hard work. Especially if the DAC will do 24b/192k out of the dock connector (or lightning connector) and then send a good clean analog out through the tubes to the DSP.

Now, if you wanted a direct DAC to tube preamp then straight to amps, then I could see it, but you'd also need a Vol control. 

I do like the idea of a recessed DD install behind an iPad!!


----------



## deeppinkdiver

cobb2819 said:


> I was thinking that in front of a DSP (with a vol control), you wouldn't need the 4 channels. This is the logic with my suggestion. If you're gonna go analog, do something like this and run to DSP to do that hard work. Especially if the DAC will do 24b/192k out of the dock connector (or lightning connector) and then send a good clean analog out through the tubes to the DSP.
> 
> Now, if you wanted a direct DAC to tube preamp then straight to amps, then I could see it, but you'd also need a Vol control.
> 
> I do like the idea of a recessed DD install behind an iPad!!


I love where this is going.. Ive actually pondered the best way to implement an Ipad and get amazing clarity for true audiophile sound. This option is seriously one I think Victor should look into- if its at all a possibility.

Two channel would work with a DSP wouldn't it, damn skippy. I did forget the volume pot, have to have that.. I keep picturing a sunken in double din case in brushed aluminum with exposed bulb glow.. If you had a ipad in front of it there could be an externally mounted small volume knob (not sure thats easy in this case) but I guess once master volume is set control by Ipod/ipad would work.

This would be the perfect blend of SQ and technology in car as far as Im concerned..


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> Hmm... maybe a dumb question, but can you bridge the input & outputs on that 4 channel and use it as a 2 channel? If so, maybe I should just buy one of these now and develop a case for it.


Funny you mentioned that. 4ch versiin can be used as double stage,I just tested that. 1 and 2 outs connected to 3 4 ins. 3 4 outs became master out. Second tube works as second stage. No modifications required. Sounds great. And first pot became master volume while second works as second stage adjustment. No bridge but rather drive tube. Second stage tube would be best to change to 12au7 or 12at7 12ax7 works fine but lower gain tube will sound even better. Good thinking istundra! Id do more testing as soon as I get shipped pres paid for.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb2819 said:


> What I'd love to see is a simple double din case with tubes visible, with the appropriate double din mounting locations on the side, and a DAC for use with a iPod or iPhone/iPad. Pull out phone, plug in, allow for charging, and 2 channel tube output with good 4+ volt output. Now let me pull out my wallet and break the bank.


How you get digital out from ipod?I can test that but I dont havedigital out for ipod. Also, anyone seen double din enclosure I coyld use for prototype? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


----------



## papasin

Victor_inox said:


> How you get digital out from ipod?


Pure i20 | Docking Station for ipad and ipod | Pure Wireless Music


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb2819 said:


> I was thinking that in front of a DSP (with a vol control), you wouldn't need the 4 channels. This is the logic with my suggestion. If you're gonna go analog, do something like this and run to DSP to do that hard work. Especially if the DAC will do 24b/192k out of the dock connector (or lightning connector) and then send a good clean analog out through the tubes to the DSP.
> 
> Now, if you wanted a direct DAC to tube preamp then straight to amps, then I could see it, but you'd also need a Vol control.
> 
> I do like the idea of a recessed DD install behind an iPad!!


You can use pre pots as volume control. They can be done as remote knob. That will increase cost a bit to use rj 45 or similar connector.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

Victor_inox said:


> How you get digital out from ipod?I can test that but I dont havedigital out for ipod. Also, anyone seen double din enclosure I could use for prototype?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk




Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

papasin said:


> Pure i20 | Docking Station for ipad and ipod | Pure Wireless Music


This one already have dac it it. From there to tubes, nothing I need to add,right?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


----------



## cobb2819

deeppinkdiver said:


> I love where this is going.. Ive actually pondered the best way to implement an Ipad and get amazing clarity for true audiophile sound. This option is seriously one I think Victor should look into- if its at all a possibility.
> 
> Two channel would work with a DSP wouldn't it, damn skippy. I did forget the volume pot, have to have that.. I keep picturing a sunken in double din case in brushed aluminum with exposed bulb glow.. If you had a ipad in front of it there could be an externally mounted small volume knob (not sure thats easy in this case) but I guess once master volume is set control by Ipod/ipad would work.
> 
> This would be the perfect blend of SQ and technology in car as far as Im concerned..


In my case, I'd even be ok with fixed level output through the tube preamp, because I have the RCD for my 6to8 in the lower single din portion of my dash. Then just an iDevice for track control, RCD for Master Vol and Sub Control, and I'm good to go. Fixed level under 8v and I'm a happy camper. 

Don't get me wrong, I can BT Stream straight to the processor and its rock solid and beautiful, but...there is something about tubes...


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> This one already have dac it it. From there to tubes, nothing I need to add,right?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


That would work if modified and it was all in the same housing with a single power supply, but the downfall is the requirement of the 30-pin to lightning adaptor if you need one. if there was just a USB dac that would pull data off of the iDevice (or even an android or windows device) and then we as the end user could just select our required cable, you could market it for more than just iDevices.

If you were gonna do something like the i20, it has a vol control accessible through the included remote, so you wouldn't need to do an external vol control. You would just need to relocate the IR receiver. If you took the RJ45 idea and adapted it over to the IR receiver, and made that a remote mount, then you're on to something because you can also use the remote for track changes and that fun stuff.


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb2819 said:


> In my case, I'd even be ok with fixed level output through the tube preamp, because I have the RCD for my 6to8 in the lower single din portion of my dash. Then just an iDevice for track control, RCD for Master Vol and Sub Control, and I'm good to go. Fixed level under 8v and I'm a happy camper.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I can BT Stream straight to the processor and its rock solid and beautiful, but...there is something about tubes...


You could adjust pots to your 6 to8 and leave them at that. I bt stream to bt receivever connected to tubes and to power amp. Sounds magnificent. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


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## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> You could adjust pots to your 6 to8 and leave them at that. I bt stream to bt receivever connected to tubes and to power amp. Sounds magnificent.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


The issue here that I see is...traditional BT Stream sucks!!! iOS limits BT Audio and Airplay to 16b/44k (Or maybe 48k). In the case of the Pure i20 with a dock connector, it will allow 24b/96k to pass through the dock connector. So if you were going to build a dedicated iDevice preamp, then I'd say the i20 would be the best route if it were all modified and stripped down to be housed with the tube assembly, and with a single 12v feed into the back. 

I was just looking through the HRT site, and I wish something like the Music Streamer HD would work with all USB sources. Maybe the Camera Connect Kit COULD work to allow a USB connection to the external dac, but that's a pretty expensive "I Wonder".

High Resolution Technologies - Music Streamer HD

24b/192k with analog preouts giving what I think said a 2.5Vrms output unbalanced (or 4.5vrms Balanced output, if we really wanna talk about doing something fun!!!). But I'm just not sure if we could use the Apple CCK communicate with the USB Dac.


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb2819 said:


> The issue here that I see is...traditional BT Stream sucks!!! iOS limits BT Audio and Airplay to 16b/44k (Or maybe 48k). In the case of the Pure i20 with a dock connector, it will allow 24b/96k to pass through the dock connector. So if you were going to build a dedicated iDevice preamp, then I'd say the i20 would be the best route if it were all modified and stripped down to be housed with the tube assembly, and with a single 12v feed into the back.
> 
> I was just looking through the HRT site, and I wish something like the Music Streamer HD would work with all USB sources. Maybe the Camera Connect Kit COULD work to allow a USB connection to the external dac, but that's a pretty expensive "I Wonder".
> 
> High Resolution Technologies - Music Streamer HD
> 
> 24b/192k with analog preouts giving what I think said a 2.5Vrms output unbalanced (or 4.5vrms Balanced output, if we really wanna talk about doing something fun!!!). But I'm just not sure if we could use the Apple CCK communicate with the USB Dac.


I`m not sure I`m following, in case of i20 I don`t have to build anything it has dac inside. or customer can use any external DAC. I`m not at the point of taking apart apple devices to experiment. I think more realistic approach for me would be to build dac into preamp. signal path from idevice to i20 into DAc and to the tubes. from there you can take it to DSP or power amps.

Dac implementation will take a while, that is for sure.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

^ differences in the use of an external DAC VS built into the pre-amp ? If it were in the pre-amp it would all switch power together with a single feed but as technology evolves would it be better/safer to keep them seperate for upgrades at later dates so as to not make the pre-amp become obselete just based on this being built in?

That HRT DAC looks very interesting. Would something like that work right out o the box in conjunction with your already planned pre-amp with little to no issues? Or would it be better to just run i20 to the pre-amp. Unfortunattely im very unfamiliar with the available tech now for ipod/ipad use as a main music source. I need to do some research on these things in order to better understand how it all works.


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> I`m not sure I`m following, in case of i20 I don`t have to build anything it has dac inside. or customer can use any external DAC. I`m not at the point of taking apart apple devices to experiment. I think more realistic approach for me would be to build dac into preamp. signal path from idevice to i20 into DAc and to the tubes. from there you can take it to DSP or power amps.
> 
> Dac implementation will take a while, that is for sure.





deeppinkdiver said:


> ^ differences in the use of an external DAC VS built into the pre-amp ? If it were in the pre-amp it would all switch power together with a single feed but as technology evolves would it be better/safer to keep them seperate for upgrades at later dates so as to not make the pre-amp become obselete just based on this being built in


That's what I was thinking. Finding a Dac, and building it into the preamp for a single box solution. I'm not sure i'm worried about technology evolving, i mean heck, we are talking about a vacuum tube pre amp, HAHA. The reason for the USB as opposed to the i20 would be versatility, if we can find a DAC that will work with almost all devices, USB and iDevice, and integrating it into the pre amp as opposed to a secondary box. 

I'm just rambling here...if any of this seems unrealistic, then I'll stop. 

My main issue with the HRT part I listed was that I'm not sure it'll communicate with an iDevice, even with the CCK. Somewhere on one of the HiFi forums was a list of USB DACs that would work with the CCK and an iDevice. I'll try and track it down.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Not rambling to me bud, this is how ideas come to fruition as far as im concerned. You have some solid ideas and clearly know enough about the products to discuss the use/integration of them into the mobile enviroment..

We are talking vacuum tubes arent we..haha. Old meets new I guess, best of both worlds.

Sorry to ask but what is the CCK? 

If there is something that would accept all mobile device inputs as a music source it would certainly be a much more marketable item, obviously. Much easier than device specific built items. Great idea, would we beable to get as clean of signal as if it were specific to the i devises though.. The search continues-

Im not on any HT forums or Id try and help find that list..


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> ^ differences in the use of an external DAC VS built into the pre-amp ? If it were in the pre-amp it would all switch power together with a single feed but as technology evolves would it be better/safer to keep them seperate for upgrades at later dates so as to not make the pre-amp become obselete just based on this being built in?
> 
> That HRT DAC looks very interesting. Would something like that work right out o the box in conjunction with your already planned pre-amp with little to no issues? Or would it be better to just run i20 to the pre-amp. Unfortunately im very unfamiliar with the available tech now for ipod/ipad use as a main music source. I need to do some research on these things in order to better understand how it all works.


very good point Steve, modular design is cheaper and upgradable. 
besides as we all love to switch gears few times a year /month/weeks.
switching from 1 dac to another in a snap would be desirable feature to everyone. preamp will evolve probably but most likely i`ll come up with new version completely. circuitry exist for a good 60 years now, only power supply is new12 to 260VDC. be careful taking working amp apart you can get electrocuted.


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb, like your ideas, keep `em coming.
pre in it current box has plenty of room for DAC, I`m not concerned of noise generated by dac as pre shielded pretty good, plus 400000Hz switching power supply protected from noise pretty good. 
Funny enough, old tube tech benefit from modern power supplies tech.
friend of mine works for HP as a senior project manager specialized on power supplies. without his theoretical help this project would not exist. 
He also builds very high tech home audio amplifiers but don`t care much about tubes. He loves all measurements be perfect, he is not audiophile at heart.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity, I shoot a video of yours playing...
will give you tracking in the morning. 
Silver case looks damn good.


----------



## Victor_inox

This 4ch plugged in in dual stage mode, ch1 and 2 outs connected to ch 3, 4 inputs.


----------



## Blu

Sweetness... Looks real nice Victor!

What was the demo music you were using? I liked it.

Cheers!


p.s. I'm still saving up for one, LOL!


----------



## Victor_inox

Blu said:


> Sweetness... Looks real nice Victor!
> 
> What was the demo music you were using? I liked it.
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> p.s. I'm still saving up for one, LOL!


Jaco Pastorius.


----------



## kappa546

hmm this might be the volume control i've been looking for to control my coustic da-55 dac.

does anyone know if the preamp before dsp (ie: minidsp) would filter out the tube goodness? would it be better after dsp?


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> cobb, like your ideas, keep `em coming.
> pre in it current box has plenty of room for DAC, I`m not concerned of noise generated by dac as pre shielded pretty good, plus 400000Hz switching power supply protected from noise pretty good.
> Funny enough, old tube tech benefit from modern power supplies tech.
> friend of mine works for HP as a senior project manager specialized on power supplies. without his theoretical help this project would not exist.
> He also builds very high tech home audio amplifiers but don`t care much about tubes. He loves all measurements be perfect, he is not audiophile at heart.


I've got a Pure i20 stripped down (Case removed, composite video daughter board removed). My PCB Soldering ability is pretty horrible, but I've always wanted to just take the ribbon off for the 30-pin "dock" and just having someone solder on a good 30-pin. It's not being used, I could always send it to you if you want to play around with it. 

The Pure i20 seems to be the favorite with the car audio guys as it will do high resolution out of the dock connector, and with a 30-pin to lightning adaptor you can use the newer equipment. Again...the downfall to this is that you would be limited to the iDevice, which isn't a bad thing. There are enough of us Apple nerds out there that would probably like to see something like this come to fruition. Even in smaller quantities, and as a special order. 

Also, you asked if there are double din cases available. I'll look around and see if I have an old basic double din with a fixed face, and a trim kit. This should be able to get you the dimensions that you're looking for, and maybe we could make it sit like a true double din would, instead of just a box behind a dash kit that looks like an after thought. 



deeppinkdiver said:


> Sorry to ask but what is the CCK?
> 
> If there is something that would accept all mobile device inputs as a music source it would certainly be a much more marketable item, obviously. Much easier than device specific built items. Great idea, would we beable to get as clean of signal as if it were specific to the i devises though.. The search continues-


The Apple Camera Connect Kit. It's a 30-pin to Mini USB that some guys in the Head-Fi world are using to connect a USB dac or a dac / amp combo to the iDevice with a 30-pin. 

Following is a link to the list that was built in like 2011 to show the different DACs and DAC/AMP Combos that will work. I'm sure something has changed in the last like 3 years, but at least it's a start. 

List of DACs that work with iPad


----------



## Victor_inox

kappa546 said:


> hmm this might be the volume control i've been looking for to control my coustic da-55 dac.
> 
> does anyone know if the preamp before dsp (ie: minidsp) would filter out the tube goodness? would it be better after dsp?


i`d put it after DSP, effect of additional ADC-DAC conversion before processing in DSP unknown, I don`t have ability to test every DSP on the market. I tested with zapco and liked result very much. apparently zapco didn`t "filtered out tube goodness" tube induced harmonics still there. 
no clue how minidsp affect signal.


----------



## cobb2819

kappa546 said:


> hmm this might be the volume control i've been looking for to control my coustic da-55 dac.
> 
> does anyone know if the preamp before dsp (ie: minidsp) would filter out the tube goodness? would it be better after dsp?


I know of a guy running a Bottlehead before a DSP, a LOVES it. Went to it from a JVC or something normal.


----------



## kappa546

good to know!


----------



## rton20s

I am way out of my depth with this stuff, but I have heard of people using both the Pure i20 and HRT iStreamer in conjunction with iDevices. Another DAC I took a look at, that could be an option is the JDS Labs ODAC (Objective DAC). The only issue I see here could be that the device receives power through the USB, so that might need to be addressed. It is quite small though and less expensive than the iStreamer. 

JDS Labs - Standalone ODAC


----------



## cobb2819

rton20s said:


> I am way out of my depth with this stuff, but I have heard of people using both the Pure i20 and HRT iStreamer in conjunction with iDevices. Another DAC I took a look at, that could be an option is the JDS Labs ODAC (Objective DAC). The only issue I see here could be that the device receives power through the USB, so that might need to be addressed. It is quite small though and less expensive than the iStreamer.
> 
> JDS Labs - Standalone ODAC


Not a bad option, still $70 more than an i20, and will still require the CCK for use on a 30-pin iDevice (unconfirmed that it will work at all, but that's what would be required just to test and see if it works). I do like that it will support up to 24/96.


----------



## rton20s

Yeah, more expensive than an i20, but much easier to tuck away. Why the requirement for the CCK? Lightning or 30 Pin to USB cable won't work?


----------



## cobb2819

rton20s said:


> Yeah, more expensive than an i20, but much easier to tuck away. Why the requirement for the CCK? Lightning or 30 Pin to USB cable won't work?



Everything I've read about the USB DACs say that the camera connect is required for traditional USB connections. Might have something to do with drivers and all that.


----------



## rton20s

cobb2819 said:


> Everything I've read about the USB DACs say that the camera connect is required for traditional USB connections. Might have something to do with drivers and all that.


Found some decent info on the JDS Labs blog site. Not sure how much of this is applicable to other DACs, but it could be good information to have. 

How to Connect Android, iPad, or iPhone to a DAC | JDS Labs Blog


----------



## Victor_inox

Every pre paid for shipped. I have more available for immediate shipment.


----------



## kappa546

Let's start hearing some reviews fellas!


----------



## cobb2819

rton20s said:


> Found some decent info on the JDS Labs blog site. Not sure how much of this is applicable to other DACs, but it could be good information to have.
> 
> 
> 
> How to Connect Android, iPad, or iPhone to a DAC | JDS Labs Blog



Confirmed...CCK is the best option for iDevices with that DAC.


----------



## Victor_inox

kappa546 said:


> Let's start hearing some reviews fellas!


I wouldn`t expect any before weekend,patience grass hopper.


----------



## Victor_inox




----------



## ISTundra

^^^ Interesting... I never noticed there was sperm inside tubes before


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> ^^^ Interesting... I never noticed there was sperm inside tubes before


invisible with naked eye.


----------



## Victor_inox

Every preamp will be shipped with these power plugs , best I found so far.
Jack size 5.5mmOD 2.1 ID. You`ll have to solder/mount on caseless version
yourself. cased pres will be mounted for you.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

I really hate chopping up my cars. Half the time I'm running my stereos on inverters.

Is that an option?

I've run my car stereo on a tube headphone amp, and I've also used a headphone amp for my Summas. Due to the insanely high efficiency, a single watt is quite listenable.










I have a handful of tube amps, but most of them don't sound any better than a good solid state. The one exception to that rule is my headphone amp, which is a single ended triode. ASL MG-si15dt.

The circuit is freely available online, and the whole thing is so simple, you could probably build one in an evening. I've heard that it's a clone of the Decware amp.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

cobb2819 said:


> I know of a guy running a Bottlehead before a DSP, a LOVES it. Went to it from a JVC or something normal.


http://www.nutshellhifi.com/VSAC2001.html

I went to one of the Bottlehead stereo shows in 2001. (Silverdale WA is about 30 minutes from where I was born.)
What a strange show. It happened two days before 9/11. Due to the ban on air travel, there were hundreds of people stranded in Washington.

Eerie.


----------



## Victor_inox

Patrick Bateman said:


> I really hate chopping up my cars. Half the time I'm running my stereos on inverters.
> 
> Is that an option?
> 
> I've run my car stereo on a tube headphone amp, and I've also used a headphone amp for my Summas. Due to the insanely high efficiency, a single watt is quite listenable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a handful of tube amps, but most of them don't sound any better than a good solid state. The one exception to that rule is my headphone amp, which is a single ended triode. ASL MG-si15dt.
> 
> The circuit is freely available online, and the whole thing is so simple, you could probably build one in an evening. I've heard that it's a clone of the Decware amp.


 Any inverter I tried was stupidly noisy, included full sine wave inverters.
ASL MG-si15dt is not headphone amp, it`s full integrated single ended triode
class A amp. I`m not following what are you trying to say. 
headphone amp is essentially preamp driver stage. tube goodness mostly noticeable on voltage gain stage- preamp. Solid state amps is current amplifiers, therefore after pre stage topology is not that important. 

If you want to run home audio in your car you can use inverter with very high oscillating frequency if you can find one. similar to JL audio power supplies they use in their new class D amps.


----------



## Victor_inox

Patrick Bateman said:


> VSAC 2001
> 
> I went to one of the Bottlehead stereo shows in 2001. (Silverdale WA is about 30 minutes from where I was born.)
> What a strange show. It happened two days before 9/11. Due to the ban on air travel, there were hundreds of people stranded in Washington.
> 
> Eerie.


Nice link, thank you!


----------



## Patrick Bateman

Victor_inox said:


> Any inverter I tried was stupidly noisy, included full sine wave inverters.


I am using compression drivers. If you run them straight off the amp, they're noisy. (And this is true of *any* amplifier, including class ab).

But a $1 resistor fixes all of that; it drops the noise floor by ten decibels. Basically there's a hiss when the compression driver is plugged straight into the amp, or an active xover. But a resistor between the compression driver and the amplifier lowers the sensitivity. And when you do that, the hiss goes away. Another option would be to use sixteen ohm compression drivers, but a resistor is a lot easier.

Yes, it wastes power, and we don't have power to burn with a tube amp. But the compression driver ends up with a sensitivity of about 99dB, while the midranges are in the high 90s. So it's a good match.

If one had a big tube amp, you could easily knock the noise floor down by fifteen or twenty decibels.

I know everybody on this board thinks active crossovers are the way to go. But passive crossovers have a crazy-low noise floor. I generally use a combination of both. I use pure active crossovers on the subs, because the components for low frequency passive crossovers are very very expensive. In the midrange I use passive *and* active, or passive, or often nothing at all. For high frequencies I always use passive *and* active. Basically the passive components are there to lower the noise floor and get the tweeter efficiency down to the level of the midrange, and the passive components are there to protect the tweeter from turn on thumps and pops. But the rest of the filter for the tweeter is done actively.




Victor_inox said:


> ASL MG-si15dt is not headphone amp, it`s full integrated single ended triode
> class A amp. I`m not following what are you trying to say.
> headphone amp is essentially preamp driver stage. tube goodness mostly noticeable on voltage gain stage- preamp. Solid state amps is current amplifiers, therefore after pre stage topology is not that important.


I forgot the name. It's actually "MG Head DT."










Here's the circuit diagram. Very simple. Can be built easily, but I hate building electronics so I just bought it.



Victor_inox said:


> If you want to run home audio in your car you can use inverter with very high oscillating frequency if you can find one. similar to JL audio power supplies they use in their new class D amps.


I'm using a 'Rhino' power inverter from Fry's Electronics. Cost $35.


----------



## Victor_inox

Patrick Bateman said:


> I am using compression drivers. If you run them straight off the amp, they're noisy. (And this is true of *any* amplifier, including class ab).
> 
> But a $1 resistor fixes all of that; it drops the noise floor by ten decibels. Basically there's a hiss when the compression driver is plugged straight into the amp, or an active xover. But a resistor between the compression driver and the amplifier lowers the sensitivity. And when you do that, the hiss goes away. Another option would be to use sixteen ohm compression drivers, but a resistor is a lot easier.
> 
> Yes, it wastes power, and we don't have power to burn with a tube amp. But the compression driver ends up with a sensitivity of about 99dB, while the midranges are in the high 90s. So it's a good match.
> 
> If one had a big tube amp, you could easily knock the noise floor down by fifteen or twenty decibels.
> 
> I know everybody on this board thinks active crossovers are the way to go. But passive crossovers have a crazy-low noise floor. I generally use a combination of both. I use pure active crossovers on the subs, because the components for low frequency passive crossovers are very very expensive. In the midrange I use passive *and* active, or passive, or often nothing at all. For high frequencies I always use passive *and* active. Basically the passive components are there to lower the noise floor and get the tweeter efficiency down to the level of the midrange, and the passive components are there to protect the tweeter from turn on thumps and pops. But the rest of the filter for the tweeter is done actively.
> 
> 
> I forgot the name. It's actually "MG Head DT."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the circuit diagram. Very simple. Can be built easily, but I hate building electronics so I just bought it.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 'Rhino' power inverter from Fry's Electronics. Cost $35.


 power inverter $35, and how much was that "MG Head DT."?
Using power inverter to power home audio electronics in the car is so ghetto. but if you OK with it... more power to you.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

Victor_inox said:


> power inverter $35, and how much was that "MG Head DT."?
> Using power inverter to power home audio electronics in the car is so ghetto. but if you OK with it... more power to you.


Why are inverters "ghetto?"










They look like an amp. They're small enough to hide easily.


If you can solve the noise issue (and it's very easy to solve) *why would anyone bother with tube gear designed specifically for 12V?*


I know someone is going to chime in here with "they're not efficient." But even if efficiency dips down to 90%, that's less than one quarter of a decibel. There's absolutely no one in the world that can hear a difference of a quarter decibel.



IMHO, the main reason people think inverters are "ghetto" is because the car audio competition rules didn't allow them. And obviously, that was based on politics; if you're putting home audio gear in your car you're not spending money at the car audio companies that sponsor car audio competitions.

But if you don't compete, get an inverter, save yourself a lot of anguish.

(Confession: I tried to build a tube amp for the car in 2002. After studying the problem for a while I came to the realization that the power supply is the difficult and dangerous part of the circuit, and I should just go out and buy one. Once you get the power supply out of the equation, the rest of a tube amp is just a handful of parts, literally 10-15.)


----------



## cajunner

how hard would it be to run a true 5 watt power amplifier off a car's 12V DC system, it doesn't seem like it would take much more than what that preamp takes.

is it the output transformer, or the initial winding of the power transformer going from 12V to 450V that costs or makes it hard?


I know they have Milbert and HSS Fidelity doing appx 35-40 watts per side, but if you wanted the miniature version, how hard would that be?

and I don't mean using the tubes that run on 6V or don't sound good, I mean a 300b or something...


----------



## Victor_inox

Patrick Bateman said:


> Why are inverters "ghetto?"
> This one is not $35, right? ghetto because using something not designed for specific purpose is my definition of ghetto. home audio never being designed for in car use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They look like an amp. They're small enough to hide easily.
> 
> 
> If you can solve the noise issue (and it's very easy to solve) *why would anyone bother with tube gear designed specifically for 12V?*
> I`ll tell you why, because tube gear build for home use is not free, it cost money and much more then mine specifically designed for 12V use. tube run on 260V so no compromises here.
> 
> 
> I know someone is going to chime in here with "they're not efficient." But even if efficiency dips down to 90%, that's less than one quarter of a decibel. There's absolutely no one in the world that can hear a difference of a quarter decibel.
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO, the main reason people think inverters are "ghetto" is because the car audio competition rules didn't allow them. And obviously, that was based on politics; if you're putting home audio gear in your car you're not spending money at the car audio companies that sponsor car audio competitions.
> 
> But if you don't compete, get an inverter, save yourself a lot of anguish.
> 
> (Confession: I tried to build a tube amp for the car in 2002. After studying the problem for a while I came to the realization that the power supply is the difficult and dangerous part of the circuit, and I should just go out and buy one. Once you get the power supply out of the equation, the rest of a tube amp is just a handful of parts, literally 10-15.)I stated that 15 times in this thread alone, schematics very simple, power supply is another story.


You can use power inverter to make household electricity, fine. then you`ll have to add power transformer , rectifier, filter to that 15 parts tube amp itself build from. If you can do it efficiently and your time cost nothing then by all means do it.


----------



## cajunner

Victor_inox said:


> You can use power inverter to make household electricity, fine. then you`ll have to add power transformer , rectifier, filter to that 15 parts tube amp itself build from. If you can do it efficiently and your time cost nothing then by all means do it.


but why is it so expensive to buy a Milbert, if it just takes a little time?

maybe sell some kits with the ferrite core, and the magnet wire for a little 15 watt/ch amp, and let people wrap them themselves?

toroid and 26 gauge solid core wire, couldn't you pass 30 watts of valve drive through it, how hard is it to go from 12V to 260 V anyways?


----------



## Patrick Bateman

cajunner said:


> but why is it so expensive to buy a Milbert, if it just takes a little time?
> 
> maybe sell some kits with the ferrite core, and the magnet wire for a little 15 watt/ch amp, and let people wrap them themselves?
> 
> toroid and 26 gauge solid core wire, couldn't you pass 30 watts of valve drive through it, how hard is it to go from 12V to 260 V anyways?


Milbert tube amps are expensive because they probably sell five or ten a year, if that. Just supply and demand.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

cajunner said:


> how hard would it be to run a true 5 watt power amplifier off a car's 12V DC system, it doesn't seem like it would take much more than what that preamp takes.
> 
> is it the output transformer, or the initial winding of the power transformer going from 12V to 450V that costs or makes it hard?
> 
> 
> I know they have Milbert and HSS Fidelity doing appx 35-40 watts per side, but if you wanted the miniature version, how hard would that be?
> 
> and I don't mean using the tubes that run on 6V or don't sound good, I mean a 300b or something...


I gotta say upfront that I haven't messed with building a tube amp for the car for about ten years, so what I'm about to say may be completely mis-informed. 

But here's how things went for me, YMMV:

Tube amps require a very high DC voltage. For instance a 300B tube requires something like 450V. Tube amps are also insanely inefficient.

In the car, we have 12V DC. *The trick is getting the 12V DC up to 450V DC.*


My perception is that all of the expensive parts, and the work, and the drudgery is in that power supply.



If you opt for an inverter, life gets a lot easier. Here's a few reasons why:

1) There are probably less than a thousand people in the entire world who have tube amps created explicitly for the car. But there are *millions* of people interested in tube amps for the home. Due to that, *the selection of home audio tube amps is a hundred times more diverse* and the cost of entry is lower.
2) The power supply for a home audio tube amp is less expensive than the power supply for a car audio tube amp. This is because it's cheaper to take 120V AC and turn it into 450V DC than to take 12V DC and turn it into 450V DC.



Horns make all of this way easier. To give you an idea of how easy and inexpensive it is to do tube in a car with horns, here's a price list:

1) Amp: Any ol' tube amp off of eBay. I like SETs because they're cheap and they're small and if they break they're easy to fix. (And you better be prepared to replace some tubes, because they *will* break.) *About $300-$500.* Here's one for $265 : Music Angel MINI L1 6P1 6BQ5 Vacuum Tube Hi-end Tube Integrated Amplifier - $256.00 : www.hifi-audio-products.com
2) Inverter: $50
3) Horns: I like the JBL PT Waveguides. Pyle makes a clone, $29 a pair: Pyle PH612 1" Screw-On Constant Radiation Horn | 292-2572
4) Tweeters: There are a hundred good candidates. Between $100 - $250 a pair. Here's what I would personally recommend for that waveguide, it's JBL's own driver. With an efficiency of 109dB, ten watts across two channels will get you to 125dB.
$240 per pair: JBL 2408H-1 Compression Driver 365011-001X | Speaker ExchangeSpeaker Exchange
5) Midranges: There are a hundred good candidates. I am using an array of Dayton ND91s. A lot of people don't like messing with arrays. If that's the case, then try the B&C 8PS21. 
$214 per pair: B&C 8PS21 8" Woofer | 294-654




Everything you need, for a bit over $800. An entire tube-driven front stage. $800 isn't much more expensive than what most people spend for a good two channel amp and seperates. *Hi efficiency tube audio doesn't have to cost more than solid state, just ask some people that DIY it.*


----------



## cajunner

Patrick Bateman said:


> I gotta say upfront that I haven't messed with building a tube amp for the car for about ten years, so what I'm about to say may be completely mis-informed.
> 
> But here's how things went for me, YMMV:
> 
> Tube amps require a very high DC voltage. For instance a 300B tube requires something like 450V. Tube amps are also insanely inefficient.
> 
> In the car, we have 12V DC. *The trick is getting the 12V DC up to 450V DC.*
> 
> 
> My perception is that all of the expensive parts, and the work, and the drudgery is in that power supply.
> 
> 
> 
> If you opt for an inverter, life gets a lot easier. Here's a few reasons why:
> 
> 1) There are probably less than a thousand people in the entire world who have tube amps created explicitly for the car. But there are *millions* of people interested in tube amps for the home. Due to that, *the selection of home audio tube amps is a hundred times more diverse* and the cost of entry is lower.
> 2) The power supply for a home audio tube amp is less expensive than the power supply for a car audio tube amp. This is because it's cheaper to take 120V AC and turn it into 450V DC than to take 12V DC and turn it into 450V DC.
> 
> 
> 
> Horns make all of this way easier. To give you an idea of how easy and inexpensive it is to do tube in a car with horns, here's a price list:
> 
> 1) Amp: Any ol' tube amp off of eBay. I like SETs because they're cheap and they're small and if they break they're easy to fix. (And you better be prepared to replace some tubes, because they *will* break.) *About $300-$500.* Here's one for $265 : Music Angel MINI L1 6P1 6BQ5 Vacuum Tube Hi-end Tube Integrated Amplifier - $256.00 : www.hifi-audio-products.com
> 2) Inverter: $50
> 3) Horns: I like the JBL PT Waveguides. Pyle makes a clone, $29 a pair: Pyle PH612 1" Screw-On Constant Radiation Horn | 292-2572
> 4) Tweeters: There are a hundred good candidates. Between $100 - $250 a pair. Here's what I would personally recommend for that waveguide, it's JBL's own driver. With an efficiency of 109dB, ten watts across two channels will get you to 125dB.
> $240 per pair: JBL 2408H-1 Compression Driver 365011-001X | Speaker ExchangeSpeaker Exchange
> 5) Midranges: There are a hundred good candidates. I am using an array of Dayton ND91s. A lot of people don't like messing with arrays. If that's the case, then try the B&C 8PS21.
> $214 per pair: B&C 8PS21 8" Woofer | 294-654
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything you need, for a bit over $800. An entire tube-driven front stage. $800 isn't much more expensive than what most people spend for a good two channel amp and seperates. *Hi efficiency tube audio doesn't have to cost more than solid state, just ask some people that DIY it.*


I totally get your argument, but I'm asking WHY is going from 12V DC to 450V DC hard to do, or expensive?

I know, the capacitors are more expensive that high up in voltage, but is it just more turns on the transformer, or something else?


Maybe it's not easy to do physically? Although, people build Tesla coils all the time as hobbyist, and light up their back yards with lightning.


It probably is easier to do than that?


----------



## cobb2819

There are a couple of current tubes out that run on 12v...so...just saying.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

cajunner said:


> I totally get your argument, but I'm asking WHY is going from 12V DC to 450V DC hard to do, or expensive?
> 
> I know, the capacitors are more expensive that high up in voltage, but is it just more turns on the transformer, or something else?
> 
> 
> Maybe it's not easy to do physically? Although, people build Tesla coils all the time as hobbyist, and light up their back yards with lightning.
> 
> 
> It probably is easier to do than that?


When it comes to electronics, I'm fairly stupid, and I am also a nutjob. (the whole reason for my pseudonym is because I'm nuts.)

So take all of this with a grain of salt.

My perception of the tube audio guys is that they are purists. So the whole idea of using an inverter in their precious tube audio circuit is anathema.

I would have never tried it personally, until I saw someone on diyaudio who took two laptop power supplies, ran them in series, and powered an amp circuit with it.

*To me, this was a revelation.* The whole idea that you could buy a couple ****ty inverters off of eBay and power an amp with it.

I thought that there must be something fundamentally "dirty" about the sound of an amp driven by an inverter. But nope, sounds and measures the same.




Think about it this way:

If you were selling tube amps, you want to sell as many as possible.
And if you do crazy **** like stick a $35 inverter from Wal Mart in the circuit, you're going to lose some sales.

The thing is, it works. It sounds crazy, and I am crazy, but it works.


The same dude that powered his amp with laptop power supplies also used computer heat sinks to cool the amp, which I thought was rather brilliant. If you look at those $3000 Pass Aleph amps, easily 20% of the amp cost is in the heatsink. A computer fan looks ridiculous on an amplifier, but it works.



































Here's an illustration of the two approaches. *These two amps are the same, except for the power supply and cooling.* The first amp looks the way you expect an amp to look. It has a big expensive heat sink, a big heavy case, and a conventional power supply. 
The second amp is completely UNconventional. First off, it's tiny. The reason that it's tiny is that the builder used a $30 fan from a personal computer. That fan is tiny but it is mighty, and it can cool the amp every bit as well as a heatsink can. The really crazy part is the power supply. Yep, that is a laptop power supply. Does it look absurd? Yes. But it does the job of that giant toroid and caps from the first power supply.

The second approach is exquisitely unconventional, but if you want to get a tube amp in your car, it's insanely simple to do. What do you have to lose? Worst case scenario, you put that amp back into your home stereo and you're out $35 for an inverter.


----------



## cajunner

cobb2819 said:


> There are a couple of current tubes out that run on 12v...so...just saying.


I know, it's not those that people say sound great though..

you don't get the same glow out of 12V from what I understand, you need to charge up the collector plates to really make that sweet sound.

and if it was valid, I'm sure they would have people making 12V tubes for car amps as a profitable venture, but since the market doesn't have any, I have to assume it's been tried and failed.


----------



## cajunner

Patrick Bateman said:


> When it comes to electronics, I'm fairly stupid, and I am also a nutjob. (the whole reason for my pseudonym is because I'm nuts.)
> 
> So take all of this with a grain of salt.
> 
> My perception of the tube audio guys is that they are purists. So the whole idea of using an inverter in their precious tube audio circuit is anathema.
> 
> I would have never tried it personally, until I saw someone on diyaudio who took two laptop power supplies, ran them in series, and powered an amp circuit with it.
> 
> *To me, this was a revelation.* The whole idea that you could buy a couple ****ty inverters off of eBay and power an amp with it.
> 
> I thought that there must be something fundamentally "dirty" about the sound of an amp driven by an inverter. But nope, sounds and measures the same.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think about it this way:
> 
> If you were selling tube amps, you want to sell as many as possible.
> And if you do crazy **** like stick a $35 inverter from Wal Mart in the circuit, you're going to lose some sales.
> 
> The thing is, it works. It sounds crazy, and I am crazy, but it works.
> 
> 
> The same dude that powered his amp with laptop power supplies also used computer heat sinks to cool the amp, which I thought was rather brilliant. If you look at those $3000 Pass Aleph amps, easily 20% of the amp cost is in the heatsink. A computer fan looks ridiculous on an amplifier, but it works.


so using that "crazy" logic, a car tube amp driven by switching power supplies is not only cheap and easy, it's profitable?

that's a bold statement, Patrick.

And don't worry, I'm crazy too. I want to wind my own 450V E-transformer, and set it in a little "flux capacitor" display a la 'back to the future' delorean, with the tubes glowing behind it.

or maybe it's just me being resistant to the idea that Milbert's transformers are what costs in that mobile amp, and to do it myself I'd never make it.

Although I don't see why not, it's not like there isn't a whole science devoted to transformer designs.


I remember reading about the Sansui guy, and why Sansui power transformers were audibly superior back when. It's things like that, that make you think, "they just don't believe there's a market for it, that's all" until someone proves them wrong.


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb2819 said:


> There are a couple of current tubes out that run on 12v...so...just saying.


 12ax7 will work somewhat on 12 V grid, sounds will be squished and unnatural, youtube will show you a couple designs where it was done.
There is none of the current tubes that was designed to run on 12V grid voltage, designing something to run on obsolete tubes is a path to failure.
You can do whatever you want to do though. 
I selected 12ax7 because that is current production tube, and experimenting with different tubes would be easy. many high end mega thousand dollars units using that tube.


----------



## Victor_inox

Patrick Bateman said:


> When it comes to electronics, I'm fairly stupid, and I am also a nutjob. (the whole reason for my pseudonym is because I'm nuts.)
> 
> So take all of this with a grain of salt.
> 
> My perception of the tube audio guys is that they are purists. So the whole idea of using an inverter in their precious tube audio circuit is anathema.
> 
> I would have never tried it personally, until I saw someone on diyaudio who took two laptop power supplies, ran them in series, and powered an amp circuit with it.
> 
> *To me, this was a revelation.*  The whole idea that you could buy a couple ****ty inverters off of eBay and power an amp with it.
> 
> I thought that there must be something fundamentally "dirty" about the sound of an amp driven by an inverter. But nope, sounds and measures the same.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think about it this way:
> 
> If you were selling tube amps, you want to sell as many as possible.
> And if you do crazy **** like stick a $35 inverter from Wal Mart in the circuit, you're going to lose some sales.
> 
> The thing is, it works. It sounds crazy, and I am crazy, but it works.
> 
> 
> The same dude that powered his amp with laptop power supplies also used computer heat sinks to cool the amp, which I thought was rather brilliant. If you look at those $3000 Pass Aleph amps, easily 20% of the amp cost is in the heatsink. A computer fan looks ridiculous on an amplifier, but it works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an illustration of the two approaches. *These two amps are the same, except for the power supply and cooling.* The first amp looks the way you expect an amp to look. It has a big expensive heat sink, a big heavy case, and a conventional power supply.
> The second amp is completely UNconventional. First off, it's tiny. The reason that it's tiny is that the builder used a $30 fan from a personal computer. That fan is tiny but it is mighty, and it can cool the amp every bit as well as a heatsink can. The really crazy part is the power supply. Yep, that is a laptop power supply. Does it look absurd? Yes. But it does the job of that giant toroid and caps from the first power supply.
> 
> The second approach is exquisitely unconventional, but if you want to get a tube amp in your car, it's insanely simple to do. What do you have to lose? Worst case scenario, you put that amp back into your home stereo and you're out $35 for an inverter.


Patrick,You keep talking about tube amps loaded with some horns you seems like you know a lot about. i agreed with crazy sensitive horns few watts can do the trick. I`m not into tube power yet, power supply for that is in development. I wont use huge toroidal transformer as inefficient and cost a lot of money. 
preamp doesn`t have a lot of heat to dissipate, or I`d use fan on it.
dc motor of a fan is another source of noise if placed in close proximity to pre stage, not so much in power stage. 
If you have home audio tube integrated amp you definitely can try to use power inverter and get acceptable result, but that amp cost a lot of money by itself, you have nothing to lose to try it and I`m sure someone did. if you don`t have one that would be questionable approach as tube power stage has no benefit vs solid stage, all tube audible harmonics injected on pre/driver stage and solid stage amplification is all you needed after that. 
Milbert full integrated tube car amp is one example of what can be done, but at what cost. 
I heard one a couple years back, impressive amp as engineering challenge.


----------



## Victor_inox

BTW I`m out of silver cases, last one ordered today, I thought silver would be less popular, my prediction was wrong.
I ordered some more but delivery date unknown at this point as they shipped from overseas. everything else made here in USA.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

cajunner said:


> so using that "crazy" logic, a car tube amp driven by switching power supplies is not only cheap and easy, it's profitable?
> 
> that's a bold statement, Patrick.
> 
> And don't worry, I'm crazy too. I want to wind my own 450V E-transformer, and set it in a little "flux capacitor" display a la 'back to the future' delorean, with the tubes glowing behind it.
> 
> or maybe it's just me being resistant to the idea that Milbert's transformers are what costs in that mobile amp, and to do it myself I'd never make it.
> 
> Although I don't see why not, it's not like there isn't a whole science devoted to transformer designs.
> 
> 
> I remember reading about the Sansui guy, and why Sansui power transformers were audibly superior back when. It's things like that, that make you think, "they just don't believe there's a market for it, that's all" until someone proves them wrong.


I doubt an SMPS tube amp would be profitable. It's a bizarre solution, if you Google it there are only a handful of them out there.

But a tube amp powered by a Wal Mart inverter is easy and it works.


My 'day job' is writing software for supercomputers. Our systems rely on very very tightly regulated power. If the power going to my CPUs is 25% too low, *my systems are going to crash.* The number of nodes that we have is classified, but it's safe to say it's a lot. Google is bigger than we are, so it's safe to assume that Google has a million nodes. When you have a million nodes, the last thing you want is to see them crash because the power sucks. (And bad power IS the source of a lot of instability in PCs. Not so much in servers, because they're built to a higher standard generally.)

*All of this technology trickles down to consumers.*

When you buy a $35 power inverter at Wal Mart, there is an expectation that *somebody* is going to plug a laptop into that inverter. And the reason that you're laptop doesn't crash every ten minutes is because the power going to the components is consistent.

It's a "chicken and the egg" problem. Computers need consistent and clean power. So the markets provided that, and SMPS is basically the result. Ubiquitous, cheap, reliable and affordable power.

Oddly enough, the power requirements for an amplifier are much more relaxed. One might even argue that an inverter is overkill for audio.


----------



## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> I totally get your argument, but I'm asking WHY is going from 12V DC to 450V DC hard to do, or expensive?
> 
> I know, the capacitors are more expensive that high up in voltage, but is it just more turns on the transformer, or something else?
> 
> 
> Maybe it's not easy to do physically? Although, people build Tesla coils all the time as hobbyist, and light up their back yards with lightning.
> 
> 
> It probably is easier to do than that?


because it`s not as easy to make 450V out of 12VDC as 110V ac into 12VDC. you have to use an oscillator for that, the higher switching frequency the cleaner power you will get. that technology advanced immensely last few years, JL using what 400KHz in their digital amps. it`s not very expensive if I can sell finished product for 250 delivered. don`t you think? I`m not profit oriented at this point. I do make some profit on it so I can buy more parts to experiment with and get better product out. Parts alone run me about $114 per unit. without case. mind you I don`t use exotic unobtanium caps or resistors because I think sonic benefit from that is negligible, Let high end audio companies do that and charge customers premium. they prefer few customers paying very high price for very few sold units I prefer more customers buying inexpensive units with most benefits. Is my business model flawed?


----------



## Victor_inox

Patrick Bateman said:


> I doubt an SMPS tube amp would be profitable. It's a bizarre solution, if you Google it there are only a handful of them out there.
> 
> But a tube amp powered by a Wal Mart inverter is easy and it works.
> 
> 
> My 'day job' is writing software for supercomputers. Our systems rely on very very tightly regulated power. If the power going to my CPUs is 25% too low, *my systems are going to crash.* The number of nodes that we have is classified, but it's safe to say it's a lot. Google is bigger than we are, so it's safe to assume that Google has a million nodes. When you have a million nodes, the last thing you want is to see them crash because the power sucks. (And bad power IS the source of a lot of instability in PCs. Not so much in servers, because they're built to a higher standard generally.)
> 
> *All of this technology trickles down to consumers.*
> 
> When you buy a $35 power inverter at Wal Mart, there is an expectation that *somebody* is going to plug a laptop into that inverter. And the reason that you're laptop doesn't crash every ten minutes is because the power going to the components is consistent.
> 
> It's a "chicken and the egg" problem. Computers need consistent and clean power. So the markets provided that, and SMPS is basically the result. Ubiquitous, cheap, reliable and affordable power.
> 
> Oddly enough, the power requirements for an amplifier are much more relaxed. One might even argue that an inverter is overkill for audio.


The reason laptop doesn`t crash on power inverter power is because laptop using battery power as a source, not inverter. even cheap inverter supply enough modified sine wave power to keep battery charged, now pull battery out and see what result you get. 
some laptops draw more more power than cheap inverter could supply. 
I build and support computer hardware for about 30 years now, there few members here who could attest on my knowledge on the subject.


----------



## Carlton8000

I would like to publicly thank Victor for making his Tube Pre available for anyone to purchase. And judging by the feedback here, a few others are thankful for his efforts as well. The box arrived today and I am looking forward to its insertion in my ride. I will let it play over the weekend with my humble home system before transferring it to my car. I will then provide a little feedback on its performance.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

Victor_inox said:


> The reason laptop doesn`t crash on power inverter power is because laptop using battery power as a source, not inverter. even cheap inverter supply enough modified sine wave power to keep battery charged, now pull battery out and see what result you get.
> some laptops draw more more power than cheap inverter could supply.
> I build and support computer hardware for about 30 years now, there few members here who could attest on my knowledge on the subject.











If anyone needs me, I'll be over here in the corner okay?


----------



## Victor_inox

Patrick Bateman said:


> If anyone needs me, I'll be over here in the corner okay?


THat doesn`t looks like supercomputer supercode on that chalk board..


----------



## cobb2819

cajunner said:


> I know, it's not those that people say sound great though..
> 
> you don't get the same glow out of 12V from what I understand, you need to charge up the collector plates to really make that sweet sound.
> 
> and if it was valid, I'm sure they would have people making 12V tubes for car amps as a profitable venture, but since the market doesn't have any, I have to assume it's been tried and failed.





Victor_inox said:


> 12ax7 will work somewhat on 12 V grid, sounds will be squished and unnatural, youtube will show you a couple designs where it was done.
> There is none of the current tubes that was designed to run on 12V grid voltage, designing something to run on obsolete tubes is a path to failure.
> You can do whatever you want to do though.
> I selected 12ax7 because that is current production tube, and experimenting with different tubes would be easy. many high end mega thousand dollars units using that tube.


Oh, I know it's not the same. That's why I've been bouncing around ideas in this thread.


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb2819 said:


> Oh, I know it's not the same. That's why I've been bouncing around ideas in this thread.


cool beans, you`ve posted couple interesting ideas, keep `em coming.


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> cool beans, you`ve posted couple interesting ideas, keep `em coming.


If you've got an iDevice with a 30-pin and would like to play with signal and sound, I can send you my Pure i20 to play with.


----------



## thehatedguy

I haven't found an inverter that produced ripple free AC, I'm sure they are out there...but ALL of the modified sine wave inverters would be horrible to run audio gear through. And a pure sine wave inverter is pretty damned expensive- $200 and up, and even then they aren't as quiet as the house hold power grid.

Going from 12 to 230-450 volts noise free is not really trivial. My HSS is running at or around 230 volts to the grid. I forgot what my Milbert was running.

It is easier to go from AC to DC to get the voltages you need rather than step up DC.

There are a couple car based DIY tube amps out there on the web.

"Auto-Darling" SE 1626 Tube Amp for my CAR!!!

Switch mode power supply for car vacuum tube amplifier Is a SMPS for car tube amp.

diytube.com • Index page Might find something there.

diysmps I joined that forum when I was wanting to build my own JLH or Hiraga class A car amp.


----------



## thehatedguy

The "real" cost in tube amps is in the iron. You can go cheap on the iron and get so-so results with something like Hammond. You could spend little more and use Edcor or James transformers, which are pretty decent. Or you can spend big money and get Electra-print, Lundahl, or Magnequest. Then spend more money getting partial or whole nickel laminations...or even partial or whole silver laminations. Then you can step into the very deep end of the pool with the Japanese transformers. The money buys you better HF response among other things.

The output transformer is very key to the "sound" of a tube amp.

Then again, you could forgo the transformers and make an OTL amp...but talk about a **** ton of tubes...


----------



## Patrick Bateman

thehatedguy said:


> I haven't found an inverter that produced ripple free AC, I'm sure they are out there...but ALL of the modified sine wave inverters would be horrible to run audio gear through. And a pure sine wave inverter is pretty damned expensive- $200 and up, and even then they aren't as quiet as the house hold power grid.
> 
> Going from 12 to 230-450 volts noise free is not really trivial. My HSS is running at or around 230 volts to the grid. I forgot what my Milbert was running.
> 
> It is easier to go from AC to DC to get the voltages you need rather than step up DC.
> 
> There are a couple car based DIY tube amps out there on the web.
> 
> "Auto-Darling" SE 1626 Tube Amp for my CAR!!!
> 
> Switch mode power supply for car vacuum tube amplifier Is a SMPS for car tube amp.
> 
> diytube.com • Index page Might find something there.
> 
> diysmps I joined that forum when I was wanting to build my own JLH or Hiraga class A car amp.


I don't get why they would be "horrible."

I get the noise thing, but just go to radio shack, buy a resistor, and wire it inline with your compression driver. Boom! solved.



A inverter powering a tube amp in a car is an insanely niche item. It's unorthodox and it's best suited to horns.

But if you have high efficiency speakers and a set of horns already, run don't walk to your nearest Wal Mart and get an inverter. Give it a listen for a few days and tell me what you think. (Don't try this experiment without a resistor inline first, it's essential for lowering the noise floor.)



If you really want to go crazy with this, read up on some of the articles from the late great Jean Michael LeCleach on current drive amplifiers and horns.


----------



## thehatedguy

12V DC Switching Power Supply - 500 Watt - Car Audio - Power Supplies

Would be great if you could do a 50 volt tube...

12V to ±45V 500W Adjustable Car Audio Power Supply - Boards | Kits | Components | Modules | Tools

About the same voltage.

But look at the costs...almost as much as Victor is charging for his whole kit. If you wanted a tube pre in your car, for what Victor is charging it just doesn't make sense to DIY one. Not unless you want to be a glutton for punishment.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

thehatedguy said:


> The "real" cost in tube amps is in the iron. You can go cheap on the iron and get so-so results with something like Hammond. You could spend little more and use Edcor or James transformers, which are pretty decent. Or you can spend big money and get Electra-print, Lundahl, or Magnequest. Then spend more money getting partial or whole nickel laminations...or even partial or whole silver laminations. Then you can step into the very deep end of the pool with the Japanese transformers. The money buys you better HF response among other things.
> 
> The output transformer is very key to the "sound" of a tube amp.
> 
> Then again, you could forgo the transformers and make an OTL amp...but talk about a **** ton of tubes...


I agree, the money buys you better HF response among other things.
But you and I are both running compression drivers, we have efficiency to burn.

That's why the resistor trick is so elegant; it allows us to approximate a current driver amplifier.










^^ Here's a measurement of two horns. See how the one has lower distortion and flatter response? RESISTORS.

From : Jean Michel on LeCleac'h horns - Page 137 - diyAudio


----------



## thehatedguy

They are bad because any noise on the power line will be amplified...and modified sine wave inverters have an output that looks like a chainsaw. And even the pure sine wave inverters aren't really clean enough to use to power an amplifier without some ripple that would be amplified.

Then you still have to come up with some kind of trigger/softstart.


----------



## thehatedguy

I will check out the current drive stuff when my Tannoys get here...they sort of have compression driver HF.


----------



## thehatedguy

Then again, you could probably drive the horns at least to some level off of the tubes in Victor's preamp. I've seen people drive tubes in the home straight from opamps with no gain stage.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

thehatedguy said:


> They are bad because any noise on the power line will be amplified...and modified sine wave inverters have an output that looks like a chainsaw. And even the pure sine wave inverters aren't really clean enough to use to power an amplifier without some ripple that would be amplified.
> 
> Then you still have to come up with some kind of trigger/softstart.


one dollar resistor, $35 inverter

Seriously, go try it.


Here's the technical reason this works:

When we're driving down the road, listening to our tunes, we can perceive about 30dB of sound. Basically anything below 70dB is going to get drowned out by ambient noise. Maybe 65dB if you drive a top of the line Lexus, or 75dB if you drive a truck.

So if you have something noisy in your system, it's going to be MADDENING. A constant 80dB buzz in your stereo is enough to make you set your gear on fire and throw it in the trash.



Here's where compression drivers come in handy.​


Let's say you have a compression driver, and it has an efficiency of 109dB. You have a piece of **** inverter that you bought at Wal Mart, driving your tube amp, because some lunatic at Diyma thought it was a good idea. And it's buzzing like crazy, and you're miserable, and you're really sick of listening to it.

*Just put a resistor inline.* A $1 ten ohm resistor will drop that 80dB buzz down to 72dB. YES it will also change your 109dB compression driver into a 101dB compression driver, but who cares? I might want my subs to hit 120dB but I don't want my tweeter to do that.

And though it reduces your sensitivity it does not reduce your maximum output (since the resistor is taking the heat, not the compression driver.)



At this point, you've knocked the buzz down from 80 to 72dB. Need it lower? Use a bigger resistor. LeCleach used 30ohms.


----------



## mikechec9

CrossFired said:


> SoundStream had a Tube line driver(half DIN). I had one for a few months. It had a beautiful tone to it was the engine was off. It added so much noise while the car was running! and from time to time it would give you a high voltage shock when you touched the gain knob.
> 
> I most likely had a bad copy.
> 
> http://www.soundstream.com/manuals/2006/OTHER/MTUBE8.pdf


I was going to purchase this unit when I was running Van Goghs. Others explained the potential of the noise introduction you described. So I passed on it.


----------



## cajunner

thehatedguy said:


> 12V DC Switching Power Supply - 500 Watt - Car Audio - Power Supplies
> 
> Would be great if you could do a 50 volt tube...
> 
> 12V to ±45V 500W Adjustable Car Audio Power Supply - Boards | Kits | Components | Modules | Tools
> 
> About the same voltage.
> 
> But look at the costs...almost as much as Victor is charging for his whole kit. If you wanted a tube pre in your car, for what Victor is charging it just doesn't make sense to DIY one. Not unless you want to be a glutton for punishment.



it's like WestCo prices, probably.

you pick up the first few for seed money, they go quick and improvements are forthcoming, then when the product is proven and people are using it in their systems it goes up in price.

pick 'em up while you can, I guess.

250, turns into 350, in so short a time, haha...


maybe that's an odd way to promote the pre-amp but the more people have access to the 'technology' that makes things sound better, the more demand will set the price.

like you say, right now it's a masochist's domain to sit there and build Victor's box but when they go for another hundo or two, it might make more sense.


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb2819 said:


> If you've got an iDevice with a 30-pin and would like to play with signal and sound, I can send you my Pure i20 to play with.


 everyone in my household switched to lightning connector. 
I don`t have any old tech Apple.


----------



## thehatedguy

Now if I could talk him into making one using some Edcor transfomers to go miniDIN balanced in and out so I could put one in between my Zapco DC Reference 4 channel...


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> 12V DC Switching Power Supply - 500 Watt - Car Audio - Power Supplies
> 
> Would be great if you could do a 50 volt tube...
> 
> 12V to ±45V 500W Adjustable Car Audio Power Supply - Boards | Kits | Components | Modules | Tools
> 
> About the same voltage.
> 
> But look at the costs...almost as much as Victor is charging for his whole kit. If you wanted a tube pre in your car, for what Victor is charging it just doesn't make sense to DIY one. Not unless you want to be a glutton for punishment.


 I have 80 volts power supply and 6n3 russian or chinese tubes works pretty good with it. and it cost me half of that in your link. I can sell that power supply by itself if you wanna play with it. 
My goal was to offer affordable solution to those of us who wants to improve their compressed mp3 sound and lifeless D class amps. without spending thousands. or replacing amps altogether. ability to work at home as well is free benefit. 
Surprisingly to myself it does all that and then some. 
for pure DIY nuts I can sell a kit with PCB and all parts included.
I pay $15 for board assembly because I believe I better spend my time elsewhere. If you think that saving that $15 make sense then by all means do it yourself. I drill holes in case and assemble unit myself because no one can do better quality control and testing of assembled units. Each unit run for an hour before shipment. I`m open to criticism and improvements. 
but I have pretty good understanding of the concept and will defend my position.


----------



## thehatedguy

I wouldn't go and buy something like that and put myself though that pain. There comes a point where it just isn't worth it to DIY, and with your preamps and the pricing, it just isn't worth it to try to make your own IMO.


----------



## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> it's like WestCo prices, probably.
> 
> you pick up the first few for seed money, they go quick and improvements are forthcoming, then when the product is proven and people are using it in their systems it goes up in price.
> 
> pick 'em up while you can, I guess.
> 
> 250, turns into 350, in so short a time, haha...
> 
> 
> maybe that's an odd way to promote the pre-amp but the more people have access to the 'technology' that makes things sound better, the more demand will set the price.
> 
> like you say, right now it's a masochist's domain to sit there and build Victor's box but when they go for another hundo or two, it might make more sense.


 That sounds possible, in ideal situation I`d look for investors and price might go up. we all have to feed our families..... I`m capable of producing 25 units a week, I don`t see this thing selling in hundreds in a week though. In the very beginning I wanted to post introductory price.....then decided against it. but unless cost of the components goes down price will stay at least at the same level. circuitry can`t be simplified because it`s already as efficient as possible. 
I might implement soft start but I don`t think it`s necessary for this unit. 
for power tubes i`d do. 
Open case design will cost more, I almost sure it will. I want to outsource cases, hate making them. I`m not machinist nor have desire to become one.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> I wouldn't go and buy something like that and put myself though that pain. There comes a point where it just isn't worth it to DIY, and with your preamps and the pricing, it just isn't worth it to try to make your own IMO.


Exactly! That was a goal.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> Now if I could talk him into making one using some Edcor transfomers to go miniDIN balanced in and out so I could put one in between my Zapco DC Reference 4 channel...


 Buy my pre without RCAs and do it yourself. how is that?Seriously though it`s in my to look at list.


----------



## Victor_inox

One of the ideas for future development


----------



## Patrick Bateman

Victor_inox said:


> That sounds possible, in ideal situation I`d look for investors and price might go up. we all have to feed our families..... I`m capable of producing 25 units a week, I don`t see this thing selling in hundreds in a week though. In the very beginning I wanted to post introductory price.....then decided against it. but unless cost of the components goes down price will stay at least at the same level. circuitry can`t be simplified because it`s already as efficient as possible.
> I might implement soft start but I don`t think it`s necessary for this unit.
> for power tubes i`d do.
> Open case design will cost more, I almost sure it will. I want to outsource cases, hate making them. I`m not machinist nor have desire to become one.


Do a kickstarter.
Car audio in the United States is d-e-a-d but it's hot in other countries. And tubes are hot in Asia.

I have a friend-of-a-friend that move a few hundred units of his electronic project with KS


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> One of the ideas for future development


PRETTY!!! Make that into a Double Din!!!


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> everyone in my household switched to lightning connector.
> I don`t have any old tech Apple.


Grab a 30-Pin to Lightning adaptor and you're good to go.


----------



## Carlton8000

My Double Din Wish 

Vics Tube Pre

With this development board minus the 10w amp. 
http://www.almainternational.org/as...interface dr. john oh pulsus technologies.pdf


----------



## cobb2819

Carlton8000 said:


> My Double Din Wish
> 
> Vics Tube Pre
> 
> With this development board minus the 10w amp.
> http://www.almainternational.org/as...interface dr. john oh pulsus technologies.pdf


YES PLEASE!!!


----------



## Victor_inox

I guess I can use something like that for prototypingBybyte Black Box N Double DIN Car PC Carputer Enclosure | eBay


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb2819 said:


> PRETTY!!! Make that into a Double Din!!!


tubes sticking out of the front?


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> I guess I can use something like that for prototypingBybyte Black Box N Double DIN Car PC Carputer Enclosure | eBay





Victor_inox said:


> tubes sticking out of the front?


I was gonna say yes to that 4 tube chassis that you showed, but If something like that double din box could be used, and all the circuitry hidden, and just the tubes visible in the box, it would be pretty cool.


----------



## thehatedguy

I wonder how hard it would be for me to do it balanced...what, 4 transformers to do it transformer coupled? Might could go cheap and do it pseudo balanced...

Urh, but that would be work for me and not you 

Tube output stage from the Denon would take care of it all...tap the preamp/tubes before they get to the output opamps maybe?


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> I wonder how hard it would be for me to do it balanced...what, 4 transformers to do it transformer coupled? Might could go cheap and do it pseudo balanced...
> 
> Urh, but that would be work for me and not you
> 
> Tube output stage from the Denon would take care of it all...tap the preamp/tubes before they get to the output opamps maybe?


I have no opinion on that, send me your Denon maybe? 
I never considered balanced outs as I don`t see many people using them.
I guess I can play with symbilink and see how that could work. no transformers in symbilinks. that much I know.


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb2819 said:


> I was gonna say yes to that 4 tube chassis that you showed, but If something like that double din box could be used, and all the circuitry hidden, and just the tubes visible in the box, it would be pretty cool.


So it will take double din room and where do you put your HU? I like idea of exposed tubes, besides i could do one more tube and install VU meter "magic eye" tube. But that sounds like custom project.


----------



## thehatedguy

I thought you would have already looked at it since you had/have the DC Reference amps 

I don't know what is inside the RCA to Symbilink transmitter boxes, though I guess I could go open one up. But the Symbilink to RCA adapters that I had with my DSP6 just did the balanced to unbalanced by taking the + to center pin and ground to the shield...I think. Or maybe - and ground went together on the barrel and + went to the center pin...

That wasn't very fancy.

But I do now wonder what is in those transmitter boxes...might be a project to look at after the kids are in bed. That I guess could possibly be active and getting power from the Symbilink cable maybe?


----------



## thehatedguy

Plus if you did that...it would save you from drilling 2 extra holes 

So it might balance out in cost...j/k


----------



## thehatedguy

The transmitters are active judging by the clip light indicators on them...or so I would guess. Feels like everything is potted judging how solid they feel. Might ruin them opening them up.

Balanced would need the 4 tube version after I thought about it...


----------



## Carlton8000

Victor_inox said:


> tubes sticking out of the front?


I would not have to see the tubes. Just leave me enough depth to mount a small tablet like a iPad mini.


----------



## cajunner

surges of interest in home tube pre's and power amps for years, since mp3 bit reduction came around and a lot of interest now that pre-amp tubes are working in the car.

since this is DIY and we like objective results to justify extra expenditures, is there a high-enough resolution youTube comparison vid, that can show what we gain with tubes?


that would be a way for people to have an apples to apples, and if not, maybe just a little sendspace track that alternates between tube and regular solid state pre-amp sections.

if we can't hear it working on low resolution equipment, how is it helping low resolution bit-rate mp3's?

this could be the smoking gun that lets car audio turn on to the valve train.


----------



## thehatedguy

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/as/as087.pdf

But you probably already knew that.


----------



## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> surges of interest in home tube pre's and power amps for years, since mp3 bit reduction came around and a lot of interest now that pre-amp tubes are working in the car.
> 
> since this is DIY and we like objective results to justify extra expenditures, is there a high-enough resolution youTube comparison vid, that can show what we gain with tubes?
> 
> 
> that would be a way for people to have an apples to apples, and if not, maybe just a little sendspace track that alternates between tube and regular solid state pre-amp sections.
> 
> if we can't hear it working on low resolution equipment, how is it helping low resolution bit-rate mp3's?
> 
> this could be the smoking gun that lets car audio turn on to the valve train.


playing mp3 on tubes, shooting video in HD and uploading result on youtube when it heavily compressed again. i already posted a video couple time and someone commented how nice it sounds, it`s somewhere in the beginning of the thread.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> http://www.jensen-transformers.com/as/as087.pdf
> 
> But you probably already knew that.


 question is how big is each transformer. you`d need 1 for each ch.


----------



## Victor_inox

One more ready to go to it`s owner:




 switched to ch 3/4 at 45 seconds.


----------



## Victor_inox

Double din with3 tubes sicking out this green VU meter would make perfect companion to 2 12ax7.


----------



## thehatedguy

The Jensens are pretty small- 1.125" x 1". But they are expensive...about $65 each. A pair of Edcor TTPCs would be $65 and to balanced ins and balanced outs.

Adding a tube output stage to the Denon might cause me to loose volume control from the volume knob...though you could probably work around that some how. But that might be a bigger PITA that it is worth...but would be cool as hell.

So I was thinking...could this preamp not replace the whole preamp in the Zapco itself? That I don't know. Might have to ask Matt Roberts about that one.


----------



## cajunner

I'm surprised at the amount of interest in these tube pre-amps for the car...

would it be fair to say that the amount of "tube sound" to be found in Victor's pre-amp, is comparable to the Panny bottle head, or is it doing even more?

I thought the Panasonic had great spec'ed numbers and the effect from it's tubes were minimal, but I've never heard it so I'm going on what I've read.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> The Jensens are pretty small- 1.125" x 1". But they are expensive...about $65 each. A pair of Edcor TTPCs would be $65 and to balanced ins and balanced outs.
> 
> Adding a tube output stage to the Denon might cause me to loose volume control from the volume knob...though you could probably work around that some how. But that might be a bigger PITA that it is worth...but would be cool as hell.
> 
> So I was thinking...could this preamp not replace the whole preamp in the Zapco itself? That I don't know. Might have to ask Matt Roberts about that one.


no preamps in zapco dc amps. as far as I can tell.
Jensens damn expensive, must be another way.


----------



## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> I'm surprised at the amount of interest in these tube pre-amps for the car...
> 
> would it be fair to say that the amount of "tube sound" to be found in Victor's pre-amp, is comparable to the Panny bottle head, or is it doing even more?
> 
> I thought the Panasonic had great spec'ed numbers and the effect from it's tubes were minimal, but I've never heard it so I'm going on what I've read.


Panny bottlehead use 1 double triode for both channels. nothing too extreme in schematics either. mine build at the same exact topology, double triode for a pair of channels. I use parts of about the same quality stock pana use. 
It`s hard to answer about amount of tube sound, technically it`s 100 % tube sound as I don`t use semiconductors in sound path at all. 
Mine also can be connected in 2ch mode where second tube became second stage/drive tube. does it make it 200% tube sound? sound in that mode quite interesting. I recommend everyone who bought 4ch to try it. As far as I know no one ever used that in preamps.


----------



## thehatedguy

The Edcors are about $30 for a stereo pair.

https://www.edcorusa.com/ttpcseriesmatchers


----------



## thehatedguy

Or cheaper if you don't want the PCB

https://www.edcorusa.com/wsm150-150

In all fairness the Jensens are using nickel or silver laminations.


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> So it will take double din room and where do you put your HU? I like idea of exposed tubes, besides i could do one more tube and install VU meter "magic eye" tube. But that sounds like custom project.



No head unit. Use it with a DAC and a dsp and I'm good.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> Or cheaper if you don't want the PCB
> 
> https://www.edcorusa.com/wsm150-150
> 
> In all fairness the Jensens are using nickel or silver laminations.


So you want me to take on your custom project?


----------



## cajunner

Victor_inox said:


> Panny bottlehead use 1 double triode for both channels. nothing too extreme in schematics either. mine build at the same exact topology, double triode for a pair of channels. I use parts of about the same quality stock pana use.
> It`s hard to answer about amount of tube sound, technically it`s 100 % tube sound as I don`t use semiconductors in sound path at all.
> Mine also can be connected in 2ch mode where second tube became second stage/drive tube. does it make it 200% tube sound? sound in that mode quite interesting. I recommend everyone who bought 4ch to try it. As far as I know no one ever used that in preamps.


I guess it's only fair that the effect that a tube pre-amp has on sound should be compared to something that gives a potential user/buyer of this equipment, an understanding of what the tube sound is, how much of it there will be, and how much the signal is changed, or if the effect is "all in" or there is some adjustment there.

if you say that using a drive stage makes a more unique sound from the pre-amp, then to me, that is like saying there are 2 levels of tube sound that can be had, and may increase my perception of value as it's not just a pre-amp, but it's now able to be adjusted for more or less of whatever the tube drive stage is doing to the signal.


that's one thing that I feel should be allowed in the design, the ability to bypass the tubes going from pre-amp to amplifier normally, a "tube defeat" setting, for when high resolution or low noise is preferred in the signal chain.

but that's just me, and I haven't heard how much the tube effect changes the signal, but I can admit that there are times when I'd like to have some mild distortion 'fatten up' or add tone, in the way tubes can do that, and there are times when I'd prefer to leave it out of the signal chain.

I can say that I've bought signal enhancers before, with the BBE Sonic Maximizer in it's original analog circuit, being one that comes to mind and it had an easily heard effect that could be quite good, but after a while, you switched it out, and reset your tone controls for plain ol' stereo because there was something artificial going on when you used high quality speakers, or you used 2-way or more in active channels downstream.

I would bet that I would like the addition of this tube pre-amp, and keep it in the signal chain where I would normally switch out all the other signal modifying pieces after a time, because the effect is more natural and doesn't attempt to do too much, or have a wide swing in adjustment where you can dial in the fuzz so much, you are made to believe that the circuit is doing too much and must be let out of the system.

I don't know if I could justify 250 dollars, for myself but I believe that of all the things that I could do to change the sound, like Surround circuits, and Aphex exciters, and BBE, etc. I'd probably stick with the tube pre-amp and it have more value than any of these others because I wouldn't be prompted to listen to my system without it. If that's because the effects are minimal, and the sound is largely unchanged but always slightly more round, I couldn't say. 


If I was still headlong in the search for something that improved the sound, more than amplifier choice or cable swaps, or all those other subtle tweaks that cost more money than they make sense, I'd have to give the Victor Inox glass menagerie a spin, luckily I'm older now and can wait and see if it's got staying power as a modification most can live with, since I believe my tastes are not special and most people will reject something artificial sounding over time, the same as I have.


----------



## Victor_inox

There is nothing artificial in tube sound, quite the opposite.
I loved playing with maximizers , exciters,etc.
last one i`ve had was modern BBE 882, interesting thing it did to the sound.
bypassing tubes in mine is not easy, how do you think 22db drop will affect sound? implementing solid state circuit to give same amount of boost is cheating as it can be easily manipulated.and will increase the cost.


----------



## EmptyKim

Victor_inox said:


> BTW until you have it installed in your car you can use it at home setup with 1A 12 V wall wart. I can provide socket like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One like this will work for $3.shipped fron china:AC 100V 240V DC 12V 1A Switching Power Supply Adapter US Plug 5 5mmx2 5mm | eBay


I was going to ask if this was AC adaptable...so will this make it plug and play for 120v AC? Would it be stupid to use this for home only?



Victor_inox said:


> everyone in my household switched to lightning connector.
> I don`t have any old tech Apple.


I have an old iPhone 4 that you can borrow if you want to play around with it. Lmk, PM me and I can ship it to you.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Victor_inox said:


> One more ready to go to it`s owner:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> switched to ch 3/4 at 45 seconds.


Love the title of that video!!

MINE!!!! lol


----------



## cajunner

Victor_inox said:


> There is nothing artificial in tube sound, quite the opposite.
> I loved playing with maximizers , exciters,etc.
> last one i`ve had was modern BBE 882, interesting thing it did to the sound.
> bypassing tubes in mine is not easy, how do you think 22db drop will affect sound? implementing solid state circuit to give same amount of boost is cheating as it can be easily manipulated.and will increase the cost.


I'm not trying to put a defeat in the circuit, just bypassing the circuit altogether since you are taking analog in, and putting analog out.

if you are going for line driver operation, then I guess it wouldn't work.

I was thinking you were producing a unity gain kind of box.


----------



## Victor_inox

pass through would work but I see that pointless, you can move inputs from pre to your power amp in a few seconds for comparison if you wish.
adding another potential noise source- why? PLus you would have to redial your amp gains every time. some pro audio tube units have circuitry to mix solid state amplification with tubes I noticed everyone using them moving tube mix to the max anyway. Jolida have tube dac with two independant outs-ss/tube. that might be a way to do it, but every little bit change the price. would you pay for additional out you most likely won`t use?
Speculation will bring your nowhere, either wait for others review or buy your own and have your own opinion formed on actual use. If you don`t like it I`ll take it back. now you have it.
I`ve heard a lot of tube gear, i own quite a collection of them including Ground zero reference 2T hybrid amp. I`m confident mine sounds better and cost 10% ot that 2T, given 2T looks great and have very impressive solid state power amp section.


----------



## cajunner

Victor_inox said:


> pass through would work but I see that pointless, you can move inputs from pre to your power amp in a few seconds for comparison if you wish.
> adding another potential noise source- why? PLus you would have to redial your amp gains every time. some pro audio tube units have circuitry to mix solid state amplification with tubes I noticed everyone using them moving tube mix to the max anyway. Jolida have tube dac with two independant outs-ss/tube. that might be a way to do it, but every little bit change the price. would you pay for additional out you most likely won`t use?
> Speculation will bring your nowhere, either wait for others review or buy your own and have your own opinion formed on actual use. If you don`t like it I`ll take it back. now you have it.
> I`ve heard a lot of tube gear, i own quite a collection of them including Ground zero reference 2T hybrid amp. I`m confident mine sounds better and cost 10% ot that 2T, given 2T looks great and have very impressive solid state power amp section.


that makes sense, no need to get touchy though...



so you bridge the gap between a guitar amp's full toob sound and the milder edge of most car tube amps.

like, you needed more of that tube sound in the circuit.

and that is an improvement, over everyone else's amount of tube sound.

that's pretty good, dialing in the right amount and all. I figure there's a good bit of difference between the AX7 and AU7, but tube rolling might not improve the sound, since you've biased it for a set amount.

I kinda want one now, haha..


----------



## thehatedguy

AX7 is the highest gain tube in that family. Then the AU7 and finally the AT7. There are differences between them, but there are differences between manufactures of each style of tube too.

But tube rolling will change the sound...or it should.


----------



## cajunner

thehatedguy said:


> AX7 is the highest gain tube in that family. Then the AU7 and finally the AT7. There are differences between them, but there are differences between manufactures of each style of tube too.
> 
> But tube rolling will change the sound...or it should.


right, but Vic's an old hand at tube sound.

I figure these pre-amps are pretty optimized with the tubes they come with, I guess you could get some Mallard or whatever, some old RCA NOS and even sweeter but the cost goes way up for a little better than EH quality.


----------



## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> that makes sense, no need to get touchy though...
> 
> I`m not touchy, if you only knew how many different things I tried before setting on it`s current circuitry.... adjustable bias in pre stage makes no audible difference. 12au7 works in current circuit without changing, just move input pot higher a bit to compensate for lower gain of 12au7.
> 
> so you bridge the gap between a guitar amp's full toob sound and the milder edge of most car tube amps. it sounds nothing as guitar overdriven tubes unless you crank your 6V outs HU and preamp pots to the max, then you might hear audible fuzz. depending on the music.
> 
> like, you needed more of that tube sound in the circuit.
> 
> and that is an improvement, over everyone else's amount of tube sound.
> 
> that's pretty good, dialing in the right amount and all. I figure there's a good bit of difference between the AX7 and AU7, but tube rolling might not improve the sound, since you've biased it for a set amount.
> 
> I kinda want one now, haha..


THat can be arranged I have them ready to go.


----------



## cajunner

Victor_inox said:


> THat can be arranged I have them ready to go.


and they are going, pretty good...

see, you've got a product that does something. I like that.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> AX7 is the highest gain tube in that family. Then the AU7 and finally the AT7. There are differences between them, but there are differences between manufactures of each style of tube too.
> 
> But tube rolling will change the sound...or it should.


THat is correct, each tube manufacturer a little different, timeframe of production playing it`s role as well.
I tried au7 and at7 and they all works fine in this circuit. That`s a beauty of it you can try many tubes and select what you like the best. 
I settle on clear top 12au7 1960 RCAs and love it. interestingly I bought a pair for $10 recently. tube hunt is fun by itself and IMHO jazz and classic rock sounds better than top shelf 0.5%section matched telefunken in the last picture.


----------



## thehatedguy

I'm just hesitant on sending out the Denon because the transport is fragile...but I am fairly certain I have the transport's transport screw, and worried about R&D costs. And last is finding somewhere to put the box. But in theory I have it pictured in my head by tapping the input of the opamps in the output bypassing them to the tubes and inserting it back in either before the coupling caps or in a separate enclosure with the output connectors.

At least that's how I have it pictured in my head...dunno if it would be as simple as that (in my world it wouldn't be). But let me mull it over.


----------



## thehatedguy

Denon 1450AR lampizator tube CD player

Like that but keeping the volume control...

But the car unit I have uses the 1704 DAC vs. the 1702 in that CD player.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> I'm just hesitant on sending out the Denon because the transport is fragile...but I am fairly certain I have the transport's transport screw, and worried about R&D costs. And last is finding somewhere to put the box. But in theory I have it pictured in my head by tapping the input of the opamps in the output bypassing them to the tubes and inserting it back in either before the coupling caps or in a separate enclosure with the output connectors.
> 
> At least that's how I have it pictured in my head...dunno if it would be as simple as that (in my world it wouldn't be). But let me mull it over.


Sounds like fun thing to do. I`d prefer to try it first on something not as precious as your denon.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> Denon 1450AR lampizator tube CD player
> 
> Like that but keeping the volume control...
> 
> But the car unit I have uses the 1704 DAC vs. the 1702 in that CD player.


lampizator is cool project,aside from a hack job he did drilling tube holed in that Denon cover. 
I think it`s time to drive around pawn shops to get couple older CD players.


----------



## Victor_inox

JUst look at how beautiful tubes are.....


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Soo sexxxy


----------



## Victor_inox

Guys, you might noticed that there is no ins outs marking. I thought it`s obvious, maybe will do silk screening or stickers in the future. 
left to right
1in2in3in4in 1out2out3out4out power plug. Nothing will happen if ins plugged to outs....


----------



## thehatedguy

Let me know when you are ready to light up the Denon.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> Let me know when you are ready to light up the Denon.


I`ll experiment on something less valuable first. how much room in your denon? email me some pictures of the guts if you can.


----------



## thehatedguy

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...stom-crossovers/101403-modded-denon-dct1.html

Not much room. I can get more shots when I take it out of the car.

But plenty of room under it in the dash.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...stom-crossovers/101403-modded-denon-dct1.html
> 
> Not much room. I can get more shots when I take it out of the car.
> 
> But plenty of room under it in the dash.


with plenty of room under the dash why wouldn`t you just conceal preamp under there and leave HU as is? What is the goal again?


----------



## thehatedguy

Getting rid of as many opamps as I can.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> Getting rid of as many opamps as I can.


opamps bypass surgery? I like it! are they socketed or soldered?


----------



## thehatedguy

The most evil of the evil...surface mount.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> The most evil of the evil...surface mount.


 you don`t want to give me surface mounted **** to play with... think about converting to sockets.Cimarron Technology, Inc. - Surface Mount Adapters


----------



## deeppinkdiver

I said it before and since I just read through the past few pages and seen it mentioned again. Double Din housing, exposed bulbs with room to mount a Ipad mini in front of (or directly too) the DD case is what I would prefer over most any other source set up. If you could fit 8 ch into the DD so that they could be ran as super tubed / double processed 4 ch that would not suck!


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> I said it before and since I just read through the past few pages and seen it mentioned again. Double Din housing, exposed bulbs with room to mount a Ipad mini in front of (or directly too) the DD case is what I would prefer over most any other source set up. If you could fit 8 ch into the DD so that they could be ran as super tubed / double processed 4 ch that would not suck!


 I bought dd enclosure to play with. will report back eventually.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Sweet!


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> I bought dd enclosure to play with. will report back eventually.



Sweet!!!


----------



## Victor_inox

I have very vague idea how to make tubes visible and leave front open for tablet install.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

^ 2 thumbs way up on this!! Board lay out im sure is cruitial on this. Maybe even a front and rear board. One with just tubes mounted flat on board but look vertical when facing the "DD" if possible. Not sure how tricky something like that would be..


----------



## Victor_inox

here is the case I`ve got for this project:Bybyte Black Box N Double DIN Car PC Carputer Enclosure | eBay
There is only two choices I found online, another one looks the same but cost more.


----------



## Victor_inox

For those of you who wants caseless preamp, there 2 possible configurations I can ship. 
1. nickel plated RCAs soldered to the board and all you need is to plug flying leads to 12V power source to start it working.
2. no RCAs at all, you`ll have to solder to the board whatever connectors you want to use. soldering points obvious , look at the second picture.
THere no price difference between 2. 
RCA grounded and can touch metal chassis.


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> I have very vague idea how to make tubes visible and leave front open for tablet install.


Plexiglass front cover that will fit in a double din trim ring?


----------



## cajunner

cobb2819 said:


> Plexiglass front cover that will fit in a double din trim ring?


and built in soft LED lighting that contrasts with LED's behind the tubes!

a magic box, right in the dash while your iPad does the heavy lifting.

maybe put a fireplace jpeg on the iPad, for ambience and some black light LED's for the tube house, with orange back-lit tubes the same colors as the vid on the iPad....


haha...

the modern version of a lava lamp, for those "look-out point" moments with your significant other...


----------



## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> and built in soft LED lighting that contrasts with LED's behind the tubes!
> 
> a magic box, right in the dash while your iPad does the heavy lifting.
> 
> maybe put a fireplace jpeg on the iPad, for ambience and some black light LED's for the tube house, with orange back-lit tubes the same colors as the vid on the iPad....
> 
> 
> haha...
> 
> the modern version of a lava lamp, for those "look-out point" moments with your significant other...


I`d leave that for DIY, after all it`s diy site, right?
led under sockets for low glow type tubes, maybe. 
there plenty of room inside sockets to put lighting to your liking.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Prototype! Prototype! Prototype!...lol. That chant should be inspiring!!

Once you get one off the ground and need a real life install test, Im your Huckleberry.. You heard it here first. If I can ill try and draw up the idea I have in my head for this DD and shoot it over to you. Just out of curiosity to see if it could work.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Waiting by the door for my first 4ch Preamp...


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> Prototype! Prototype! Prototype!...lol. That chant should be inspiring!!
> 
> Once you get one off the ground and need a real life install test, Im your Huckleberry.. You heard it here first. If I can ill try and draw up the idea I have in my head for this DD and shoot it over to you. Just out of curiosity to see if it could work.


You know I`m open for ideas.


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> Waiting by the door for my first 4ch Preamp...


It was shipped on Saturday, I`d be surprised it ups deliver before Wednesday.


----------



## Victor_inox

So far only one member sent review. He will step ahead with more detailed once it`s permanently mounted.
He wrote:" I took a 90 minute test drive to my Mothers house with the Tube Pre sitting on the passenger side. I must say that even with a slight cold affecting my hearing. I was truly enjoying what your pre was doing on a couple of familiar CD's. 
Thanks again for your commitment to provide outstanding customer service."
Respectfully,

Carlton Spence

Come on buyers, I know you must like it because I didn`t get any angry emails saying I sell POS. tell others what you think, please.
I need to move some units to get to the next development step.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Victor. Ill give mine a nice long listen as soon as it comes in. I have some very familiar tracks I cant wait to play. Ill be using mine on my home monitors at first since my car is still in process.

Thanks again for the quick reply's and answering all my questions all hours of the night. Your a good dude and im happy to have bought from you, again.

Steve


----------



## Velozity

I'm looking at mine on my table right now! It won't get in my truck right away due to my other system changes (need to establish a baseline first) but I can pull out my Elite SACD player and receiver (that I tried to sell in classifieds, lol) and try it here at home. I gotta go get an AC adapter from Radio Shack. I'll set it up tomorrow on some Polk bookshelves and do a true A-B comparison with and without the pre in the chain. Vic, how about coming up with a cool logo to put on this thing?!


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Yes.. A logo. That would be sweet


----------



## rton20s

Not that I'm all that great with this sort of thing, I'd be happy to throw some sort of simple logo together for you in Inkscape or Photoshop. Company name? Product name? Dimensions?


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> I'm looking at mine on my table right now! It won't get in my truck right away due to my other system changes (need to establish a baseline first) but I can pull out my Elite SACD player and receiver (that I tried to sell in classifieds, lol) and try it here at home. I gotta go get an AC adapter from Radio Shack. I'll set it up tomorrow on some Polk bookshelves and do a true A-B comparison with and without the pre in the chain. Vic, how about coming up with a cool logo to put on this thing?!


DC 12 V not AC, AC won`t work. 
Logo? I`m researching engraving machines now, would be cool to have my own. I need to come up with trademark first.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Ive seen a tube with what looked to be sperm swimming through it on here recently..lol. Is that taken?


----------



## Victor_inox

rton20s said:


> Not that I'm all that great with this sort of thing, I'd be happy to throw some sort of simple logo together for you in Inkscape or Photoshop. Company name? Product name? Dimensions?


I appreciate the offer, the thing is that I have no company name nor product name for this enterprise yet. I don`t want to limit myself to tube preamps, I have few ideas for future developments. Most likely all based on tube tech.


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> Ive seen a tube with what looked to be sperm swimming through it on here recently..lol. Is that taken?


I borrowed it somewhere on the net. not mine.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

^ Id like a vinyl of it. I think its cool..ha


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> ^ Id like a vinyl of it. I think its cool..ha


Print it on gloss paper and put clear tape over it, almost as durable as vinyl.


----------



## Velozity

Victor_inox said:


> I appreciate the offer, the thing is that I have no company name nor product name for this enterprise yet. I don`t want to limit myself to tube preamps, I have few ideas for future developments. Most likely all based on tube tech.



Well there's your company name right there.

TubeTech


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Thats catchy.. I like that as an option


----------



## WestCo

LOL yes, my vote is for Tubetech too... as soon as I read it, I was thinking damn that's a good name


----------



## deeppinkdiver

"Tube Tech- your source for studio sound in the automotive environment"


----------



## Carlton8000

T2
Tube Temptations
Tube Time
Tube Tranquility


----------



## Victor_inox

keep `em coming I like it. TT for logo should be easy and catchy.


----------



## Carlton8000

TubeTronics
TubeTunes


----------



## EmptyKim

Victor_inox said:


> keep `em coming I like it. TT for logo should be easy and catchy.


TT
TiT
TiTs
( . ) ( . ) Tubes


----------



## Victor_inox

EmptyKim said:


> TT
> TiT
> TiTs
> ( . ) ( . ) Tubes


I like TITS(aren`t we all) and was thinking about it.
not a bad name for sticking out tubes double tube preamp.
I just imagined if your wife asked you what are you doing? and you answered playing with tits, honey.


----------



## Victor_inox

I was asked what should I expect upon inserting it in sound path?
I`m not good at audiophile BS so here is what i answered. 
"I`m trying not to bring audiophile jargon as most of it does not make any sense to real person.
tube pre is easiest and most effective way to get tube sound in otherwise solid state audio path.
in short, tubes introduce even low order harmonics into signal, effectively making compressed audio sound more natural. Even modern CDs overcompressed and lifeless. compression algorithms
such as mp3 analyze for "excessive" "unimportant" data and eliminate it, process similar to making Jpegs from uncompress photo. very high quality pictures can be effectively made 20 times smaller.
audio file scanned for repeating bytes and map of such bytes stored instead of actual bytes. it takes much less space on storage media but just like JPG file can be fuzzy same applied to mp3.
I noticed most improvement on streaming services such as Pandora." 

What would you add to that? I`m working on FAQ list and this one made a list.


----------



## ISTundra

Victor_inox said:


> Come on buyers, I know you must like it because I didn`t get any angry emails saying I sell POS. tell others what you think, please.
> I need to move some units to get to the next development step.


Check your PM's from yesterday. I'm ready to buy one


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> Check your PM's from yesterday. I'm ready to buy one


I thought I answered all PMs. I just answered your pm from 11:15. paypal [email protected]
caseless 4ch $200 shipped.


----------



## Victor_inox

THose of you who sent money as friends and family, I appreciate that. every little thing counts. I answer all pm in an hour unless there troubles with tapatalk. if not answered in 1 day please resent, I wasn`t ready for amount of pms I`m receiving now. more time I spent on pms less time left for new developments.


----------



## Victor_inox

Every preamp paid to to this moment shipped. thank you everybody and enjoy!.


----------



## Velozity

I was browsing eBay UK just now (don't ask) and look what I came across:

Tube Technology Genesis III Mono-Block Power Amplifiers (1 Pair) | eBay


I still like TubeTech better than Tube Technology. You can check uspto.gov to see if whatever name you choose is available for trademark.


----------



## Carlton8000

Victor_inox said:


> I was asked what should I expect upon inserting it in sound path?
> I`m not good at audiophile BS so here is what i answered.
> "I`m trying not to bring audiophile jargon as most of it does not make any sense to real person.
> tube pre is easiest and most effective way to get tube sound in otherwise solid state audio path.
> in short, tubes introduce even low order harmonics into signal, effectively making compressed audio sound more natural. Even modern CDs overcompressed and lifeless. compression algorithms
> such as mp3 analyze for "excessive" "unimportant" data and eliminate it, process similar to making Jpegs from uncompress photo. very high quality pictures can be effectively made 20 times smaller.
> audio file scanned for repeating bytes and map of such bytes stored instead of actual bytes. it takes much less space on storage media but just like JPG file can be fuzzy same applied to mp3.
> I noticed most improvement on streaming services such as Pandora."
> 
> What would you add to that? I`m working on FAQ list and this one made a list.


I also don't go for the audiofool BS. The music is all that matters. 
Possible FAQ
1. Easy to insert into most audio systems.
2. A 30 day period is given to personally evaluate the Tube Pre in ones system.
3. The Ears don't lie, so close your Eyes and give it a try.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> I was browsing eBay UK just now (don't ask) and look what I came across:
> 
> Tube Technology Genesis III Mono-Block Power Amplifiers (1 Pair) | eBay
> 
> 
> I still like TubeTech better than Tube Technology. You can check uspto.gov to see if whatever name you choose is available for trademark.


Thank you Michael! I`ll check trademarks available. nice pair of amps you found there. Brits suckers for good sound (no surprise there) honestly I think i can make a better amps for less money, $1500 for these amps is still a good price.


----------



## DrFred

Victor - 
Your unit sounds like a winner [ pun intended ]- I hope some of the first buyers post up some reviews soon so those of us on the fence ( budget wise , for me ) can jump on the tube bandwagon . As for names , I believe "TubeTech " and " Tube Tech " are already taken with the latter being a fairly famous pro audio company . How about making it " V Audio " - should have some easy marketing slogans available with that ! " Kelly


----------



## sqnut

In a car the normal response at ear level is a total mess. To expect to hear sonic nirvana by just adding a tube amp is perhaps being a bit ambitious. Yes you will hear a difference but the signature sound of tubes is going to be diffused by the crappy overall response.

I think spending $300 on a used processor to clean out the response should precede experimenting with a tube amp. You can use the processor to shape your response and get that tube like sound. Tight punchy lower end, liquid, warm and transparent mid range. I use tubes at home and with that as a reference, my car has a very similar sound. 

I wonder how much it would cost to ship one of the amps to India? Probably more than the cost of the amp . Like others I'm looking forward to some reviews. GL with your project.


----------



## Victor_inox

sqnut said:


> In a car the normal response at ear level is a total mess. To expect to hear sonic nirvana by just adding a tube amp is perhaps being a bit ambitious. Yes you will hear a difference but the signature sound of tubes is going to be diffused by the crappy overall response.
> 
> I think spending $300 on a used processor to clean out the response should precede experimenting with a tube amp. You can use the processor to shape your response and get that tube like sound. Tight punchy lower end, liquid, warm and transparent mid range. I use tubes at home and with that as a reference, my car has a very similar sound.
> 
> I wonder how much it would cost to ship one of the amps to India? Probably more than the cost of the amp . Like others I'm looking forward to some reviews. GL with your project.


I`m sure shipping to india would be no more than $50. I shipped couple to australia and japan for about that much.


----------



## Victor_inox

DrFred said:


> Victor -
> Your unit sounds like a winner [ pun intended ]- I hope some of the first buyers post up some reviews soon so those of us on the fence ( budget wise , for me ) can jump on the tube bandwagon . As for names , I believe "TubeTech " and " Tube Tech " are already taken with the latter being a fairly famous pro audio company . How about making it " V Audio " - should have some easy marketing slogans available with that ! " Kelly


Darn, you right tube-tech is well known company, back to search. 
I can`t make people speedup their installs to get reviews, short of paying for it but that would defer the purpose of unbiased reviews isn`t it.


----------



## Victor_inox

It seems that combination of tube and tech is all taken.
How about something like Victory sonics?


----------



## rton20s

I kind of like that. And it doesn't tie you down to just tubes.


----------



## Victor_inox

rton20s said:


> I kind of like that. And it doesn't tie you down to just tubes.


that what I thought.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> It seems that combination of tube and tech is all taken.
> How about something like Victory sonics?


That sounds pretty sweet actually. I really think I am going to end up with one of these if for no other reason than curiosity. Do have a 2channel with the options I mentioned before yet available? ie. black case with terminal blocks for power and rca connectors just like any regular amp would have? Still need to figure out a place for it too. I think you mentioned that this could be used at home too if I recall. How would that come about? What else (if anything) would be required to safely use it in a home stereo setup as well as my vehicle.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> That sounds pretty sweet actually. I really think I am going to end up with one of these if for no other reason than curiosity. Do have a 2channel with the options I mentioned before yet available? ie. black case with terminal blocks for power and rca connectors just like any regular amp would have? Still need to figure out a place for it too. I think you mentioned that this could be used at home too if I recall. How would that come about? What else (if anything) would be required to safely use it in a home stereo setup as well as my vehicle.


Seems like you missed half of the posts here. 
terminal blocks for RCA? I have no clue what that is. RCA is always by itself. 
power terminals would be sweet if I can find it, so far I was unable to.
power installed on the chassis, power jack included, there is terminals on power jack up to 14awg. there is picture I posted. somewhere around page 10 I think. i`ll find it when I get home tonight.
you can use preamp in home with wall wart power supply 12VDC 1A. with 5.5x2.1mm plug. that makes moving it from car to home very easy. 
4ch can be plugged in as 2 stage 2 channel second stage will work as driver stage, channell pots with change tube bias indefinitely, sounds very interesting, everyone who tried that like it. no one before tried that topology as far as I know, I`m finishing paperwork for patent now.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> Seems like you missed half of the posts here.
> terminal blocks for RCA? I have no clue what that is. RCA is always by itself.
> power terminals would be sweet if I can find it, so far I was unable to.
> power installed on the chassis, power jack included, there is terminals on power jack up to 14awg. there is picture I posted. somewhere around page 10 I think. i`ll find it when I get home tonight.
> you can use preamp in home with wall wart power supply 12VDC 1A. with 5.5x2.1mm plug. that makes moving it from car to home very easy.
> 4ch can be plugged in as 2 stage 2 channel second stage will work as driver stage, channell pots with change tube bias indefinitely, sounds very interesting, everyone who tried that like it. no one before tried that topology as far as I know, I`m finishing paperwork for patent now.


No I've read it all. I did see those pics and made me want one even more. Thanks for showing the pic of the power connector and rca jack. I think I actually like that setup even more than a block as it keeps the dimensions down and this is likely to be a tight fit. I'll have to look into that 12v converter plug from Walmart tho. Hope my wallymarts up here actually carry them too. Alot of their nice stuff doesn't make it into the Canadian stores unfortunately.

I am also not fully following what you mean by 2 stage 2 channel using the 4 channel version. Do you mean run the signal through two tubes for each channel? I can only assume that would definitely increase the tubes effect if that is the case. How much size difference is there again? I will have to go back to page 1 and see and hopefully tomorrow I can get around to doing some measurements to see where I might fit one of these things.


----------



## Weightless

How about the VicTube? It kinda rolls off the tongue...the VicTube by Victory Sonics.

I got mine in last week, but I will not be able to install it in my car yet. I will try to insert it into my home system sometime this week.

So far, everything looks good! I love the plain black case. 

J-


----------



## rton20s

Victory Sonics Victube4 
Victory Sonics Victube4/2 (since you can run 2 channel as well)

With the numbers superscript, of course. I just have no idea how to code them to make them show up superscript on the forum.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> No I've read it all. I did see those pics and made me want one even more. Thanks for showing the pic of the power connector and rca jack. I think I actually like that setup even more than a block as it keeps the dimensions down and this is likely to be a tight fit. I'll have to look into that 12v converter plug from Walmart tho. Hope my wallymarts up here actually carry them too. Alot of their nice stuff doesn't make it into the Canadian stores unfortunately.
> 
> I am also not fully following what you mean by 2 stage 2 channel using the 4 channel version. Do you mean run the signal through two tubes for each channel? I can only assume that would definitely increase the tubes effect if that is the case. How much size difference is there again? I will have to go back to page 1 and see and hopefully tomorrow I can get around to doing some measurements to see where I might fit one of these things.


You can get 12V power supply in any electronic store wall wart has nothing in common with walmart. AC adapter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
you can get one off ebay for couple bucks.AC 110 240V to DC 12V 1A 1000mA Power Supply Adapter for Secrity Camera | eBay
stage 2 means you patch ch1-2out into 3-4 input. 3-4 became stage2. Is that makes more sense?
right now 2ch amp is essentially the same PCB as 4ch with a few subtle changes. and use the same case. 1 tube 2ch version is in development right now. waiting for a test run of PCBs. That`s all i can tell right now.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> You can get 12V power supply in any electronic store wall wart has nothing in common with walmart. AC adapter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> you can get one off ebay for couple bucks.AC 110 240V to DC 12V 1A 1000mA Power Supply Adapter for Secrity Camera | eBay
> stage 2 means you patch ch1-2out into 3-4 input. 3-4 became stage2. Is that makes more sense?


Ah, ok. lol I was confused on the power converter. I know what you are talking about now. The one you posted from EBay looks like an electric razer adapter actually. :laugh: 

I had your 2 stage right in my head. Basically the signal passes through two different sets of tubes and passes through the box essentially twice. Interesting. Just need real small rca patch cables for that. Are the boxes the same size for all units as well or is the 2 channel a smaller form factor? I think there is only one chassis but just making sure.


----------



## Victor_inox

same box for both.


----------



## Victor_inox

Next bunch of PCBs will be made with led tube illumination for those of you who will made your own enclosure with tubes visible. closest color to natural tube glow. Not all tubes glowing bright by itself.


----------



## Carlton8000

Victor-

How hard would it be to retrofit this option? I am reevaluating placement of my Tube Pre. My current thought is to place it above my single din HU. I hope I could use the connection from the existing led to provide power to two LEDs to light each tube. Please advise.


----------



## Victor_inox

Carlton8000 said:


> Victor-
> 
> How hard would it be to retrofit this option? I am reevaluating placement of my Tube Pre. My current thought is to place it above my single din HU. I hope I could use the connection from the existing led to provide power to two LEDs to light each tube. Please advise.


 easy, there enough room in the sockets to place 5mm leds, I use 3mm leds.
you can use power led connector as power source for them.
just be careful for led leads not to touch any PCB traces. You can use tiny bit and drill two holes for led leads under tube socket. there a small trace under it, holes can be made on each side of that trace. or be creative and do your own. 
I can do it for you no charge, for a cost of shipping.


----------



## Carlton8000

Thanks for the offer. I will be in touch with you as soon as I make a permanent decision on its mounting.


----------



## Carlton8000

Looks like this is where it will end up. I sure am glad I did not buy a DDHU. Thanks again Victor for making this possible.







[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## deeppinkdiver

^ that is super sexxxy!!! LEDs and plexi to finish it off??


----------



## Victor_inox

Carlton8000 said:


> Looks like this is where it will end up. I sure am glad I did not buy a DDHU. Thanks again Victor for making this possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/IMG]


 great idea, I hope you`ll protect tubes somehow. now you need some stand off spacers to screw it on top of the head unit.








Ohhhh , you wasted $50 for cased preamp, you could just get caseless.


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> ^ that is super sexxxy!!! LEDs and plexi to finish it off??


He got leds covered, I`d use something like that







instead of plexi


----------



## DBlevel

Carlton8000 said:


> Looks like this is where it will end up. I sure am glad I did not buy a DDHU. Thanks again Victor for making this possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/IMG]





deeppinkdiver said:


> ^ that is super sexxxy!!! LEDs and plexi to finish it off??


Yes very! 

A pic of everything powered up?


----------



## Carlton8000

This was just for a proof of concept view. I will make sure to provide isolation and protection for the TP. I am looking at different faceplate options. Such as honeycomb wire mesh and plexiglass.


----------



## Victor_inox

wire mesh yes! tubes will be visible and ventilation good. 
I don`t like plexi- too cheap.


----------



## Carlton8000

I am leaning toward a micro metal mesh. Proper form and function for tubes. And a deterrent to prying eyes.


----------



## Victor_inox

Carlton8000 said:


> I am leaning toward a micro metal mesh. Proper form and function for tubes. And a deterrent to prying eyes.


When you find a source for it let me know please.


----------



## Carlton8000

Victor_inox said:


> When you find a source for it let me know please.


Try these guys out. 

Perforated Metal, Wire Mesh, Grating, Expanded Metal and Fiberglass Products.

I have some 2RU Middle Atlantic vent from PE. One probably with be sacrificed.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

They have all kinds of cool stuff...


----------



## Victor_inox

Anybody else did something cool with theirs?


----------



## ISTundra

Received mine today, hefty and looks to be well-built. I plan to try it in my truck eventually but I'm already using a tube amp in that install, so to get some initial impressions I'll be inserting it into my pc audio setup. I'm going to try to get a case design going this weekend.

Question: U4/U5 - which tube is for which channels?


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> Received mine today, hefty and looks to be well-built. I plan to try it in my truck eventually but I'm already using a tube amp in that install, so to get some initial impressions I'll be inserting it into my pc audio setup. I'm going to try to get a case design going this weekend.
> 
> Question: U4/U5 - which tube is for which channels?


 RCA tube is 12AU7 use it in socket closest to RCAs ch 1-2. I think it sounds best that way since you will be using pre in 2ch mode. but you can try any tube in any socket and decide for yourself. don`t pull tubes on powered circuit, switch it off wait 10-20 seconds to discharge caps and cool off tubes.


----------



## Victor_inox

*Magic eye option.*





 I have circuit ready for VU magic eye meter.


----------



## Victor_inox




----------



## Victor_inox

There is some progress made on the way to tube power amp as well.
16Wx2 single ended, tested today Price point will be bellow $1000. 
THen it might evolve to push pull with twice the power. 
I think it`s not bad considering Milbert at similar topology run 3 grand.


----------



## Guest

Nice !


----------



## Victor_inox

SQ_MDX said:


> Nice !


Thanks, it`s too early into development stage, only first point to point prototype was finished.


----------



## Guest

Always wanted to try a Milbert... I've heard a few and was very impresded


----------



## Victor_inox

SQ_MDX said:


> Always wanted to try a Milbert... I've heard a few and was very impressed


 Milbert sounds sweet with just 30W/ch. I can make a clone but I have couple ideas how to make it better so it will not be a clone but my own.


----------



## Victor_inox

I have 6 more ready for shipment, assembled and tubes burned in. 
Who is up for tube goodness.


----------



## Victor_inox

Bump ttt.


----------



## ISTundra

I've been listening to mine in my home audio setup for the past few days. Gotta admit it sounds pretty nice and is a good deal at the price Vic is selling them for. I've been working on a couple of case concepts that show off the tubes in a cage, but these tubes don't seem to glow very bright. What is that magic eye tube you showed above?


----------



## EmptyKim

ISTundra said:


> I've been listening to mine in my home audio setup for the past few days. Gotta admit it sounds pretty nice and is a good deal at the price Vic is selling them for. I've been working on a couple of case concepts that show off the tubes in a cage, but these tubes don't seem to glow very bright. What is that magic eye tube you showed above?


How are you powering it?


----------



## ISTundra

with a 12V wall wart


----------



## Carlton8000

ISTundra said:


> I've been listening to mine in my home audio setup for the past few days. Gotta admit it sounds pretty nice and is a good deal at the price Vic is selling them for. I've been working on a couple of case concepts that show off the tubes in a cage, but these tubes don't seem to glow very bright


I added a little tube glow to mine with a couple of Amber 3mm LED. The leds also double as power on indicators. Review pending. 







[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## thehatedguy

You are going to mess people's minds up if they get a hold of single ended tube amps.


----------



## Victor_inox

thehatedguy said:


> You are going to mess people's minds up if they get a hold of single ended tube amps.


working on it. Everything is possible for a cost.


----------



## Victor_inox

Carlton8000 said:


> I added a little tube glow to mine with a couple of Amber 3mm LED. The leds also double as power on indicators. Review pending.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/IMG]


You did great, I like that, clever placement as well. did you find a mesh to cover it up? I found a very nice mesh baskets in office depot.
expanded metal is about as good as it gets:Office Depot Brand Metro Mesh File Holder Black by Office Depot


----------



## Victor_inox

I can include power supply for using it at home starting next week. 
I ordered a bunch. 
Victory Sonics VK-4T mk1 is an official name for preamp now.


----------



## Carlton8000

Thanks Victor, I like the name. I am awaiting delivery of this mesh. It will be placed to cover the single din opening. Finally I am stealing a design using plastic mirrors, similar to the Sunfire Vacuum Tube Preamplifier from Bob Carver. This will give the effect of multiple tubes while hiding the RCA connections. 

Steel Perforated Sheet 22 Gauge 030" x 12" x 12" 1 16" Holes | eBay


----------



## Victor_inox

Carlton8000 said:


> Thanks Victor, I like the name. I am awaiting delivery of this mesh. It will be placed to cover the single din opening. Finally I am stealing a design using plastic mirrors, similar to the Sunfire Vacuum Tube Preamplifier from Bob Carver. This will give the effect of multiple tubes while hiding the RCA connections.
> 
> Steel Perforated Sheet 22 Gauge 030" x 12" x 12" 1 16" Holes | eBay


I think with an open area 22% on that perforated sheet, you`ll have hard time seeing anything through. nonetheless true DIY approach, kudos!


----------



## Victor_inox

13 bucks for 4 pieces 8x11,







cheaper than ebay.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


----------



## Carlton8000

Good find, I am headed over to office max.


----------



## invecs

I'm sold.

But has anyone tested this preamp before a Mosconi 6to8. I'm not sure if the tube sonics would be affected if the processor converts the signal to digital then back to analog.

Thanks.


----------



## Victor_inox

invecs said:


> I'm sold.
> 
> But has anyone tested this preamp before a Mosconi 6to8. I'm not sure if the tube sonics would be affected if the processor converts the signal to digital then back to analog.
> 
> Thanks.


 I personally tested it with ZApco DSP, "tubeness" is still there, that question was covered somewhere in the thread.
you can always get more channels if you want after each mosconi out.


----------



## Victor_inox

Power supply for home use is optional, cost $5.00


----------



## nigeDLS

Can you send to the UK?


----------



## Victor_inox

nigeDLS said:


> Can you send to the UK?


 I`ll ship worldwide,
You pay for shipping. 2kg from US zip code 80126. Priority mail international flat rate medium box.


----------



## Theronh357

I've got a _retro/nouveau_ setup @ the moment, that currently utilizes a couple of Butler/Phaze Audio tube amps (TD475 & TD750) along with a tube preamp (LD-2), in order to power my front stage (Focal Utopia No. 7) components...the synergy betwixt & between the tube amps and the beryllium tweeters, is pretty awesome IMO.


----------



## Victor_inox

One more going to new home:


----------



## cobb2819

invecs said:


> I'm sold.
> 
> But has anyone tested this preamp before a Mosconi 6to8. I'm not sure if the tube sonics would be affected if the processor converts the signal to digital then back to analog.
> 
> Thanks.


Con Victor into send me one, i'll test it, BAHAH.


----------



## Victor_inox

Silver will be in stock by the end of the week, right now I only have black cases.


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb2819 said:


> Con Victor into send me one, i'll test it, BAHAH.


 he is getting one for himself to test.


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> he is getting one for himself to test.


DANG IT!!


----------



## ISTundra

This isn't really a low cost case design, but I think I'm going to keep this in my home stereo chain for now so I want it to look a little more refined design-wise.
I can bolt on a tube cage later if I decide to run it in my mobile install (already running tubes there). 










Hope to be cutting metal by the weekend.


----------



## invecs

It's going to take sometime for me to test it though. I'm still unsure if I can put it in my car. I compete in EMMA but in experience class...if I use this diy preamp, it's going to put me into master class...unless it could be declared that vic's preamp is a full production model.


----------



## Victor_inox

Define full production please

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> This isn't really a low cost case design, but I think I'm going to keep this in my home stereo chain for now so I want it to look a little more refined design-wise.
> I can bolt on a tube cage later if I decide to run it in my mobile install (already running tubes there).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope to be cutting metal by the weekend.


I like it bad ass design. Can yoy make me such cases? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> This isn't really a low cost case design, but I think I'm going to keep this in my home stereo chain for now so I want it to look a little more refined design-wise.
> I can bolt on a tube cage later if I decide to run it in my mobile install (already running tubes there).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope to be cutting metal by the weekend.


radiator fins would be non functional as there no heat to dissipate, unless I`m going to add digital amplifier to that. 4x150 would be sweet and doable but case would be a bit bigger.
Also top plate could be with round holes instead of oval one and couple of these to protect tubes, they about $10 on ebay


----------



## TrickyRicky

SWEETNESS, I might have to give one a try.


----------



## invecs

Victor_inox said:


> Define full production please
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


Something that can be bought in a retail store with a registered brand...maybe what I meant is a commercial item.


----------



## ISTundra

Victor_inox said:


> I like it bad ass design. Can yoy make me such cases?


Let me get the first one made and then will have a better feel for how much cost is in it. As I mentioned, this isn't really a low dollar design but I wanted something that would look good in a mid-level and up home audio system.



Victor_inox said:


> radiator fins would be non functional as there no heat to dissipate, unless I`m going to add digital amplifier to that. 4x150 would be sweet and doable but case would be a bit bigger.
> Also top plate could be with round holes instead of oval one and couple of these to protect tubes, they about $10 on ebay


Yeah I know. The fins are really just a styling touch. I could square off the ends and make it cheaper, for sure. I thought about those tube cages, they are really cheap on VT4C, but for a static home audio setup I'd rather see the tubes. Those cages could be added easy enough later.


----------



## Victor_inox

invecs said:


> Something that can be bought in a retail store with a registered brand...maybe what I meant is a commercial item.


retail store? there only 2 left in Colorado, cartoys and BB. There should be definition in the rule book. 
Commercial item? show them your paypal receipt as prove that you didn`t made it yourself. 
In races definition of production is very strict, how is that in competition rules I have no idea. Probably certain number of units made, if so what would be that number?


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> Let me get the first one made and then will have a better feel for how much cost is in it. As I mentioned, this isn't really a low dollar design but I wanted something that would look good in a mid-level and up home audio system.
> milled from one chunk of aluminum it would be very high, separate sides bottom and top I guess is the way to be somewhat affordable.
> Yeah I know. The fins are really just a styling touch. I could square off the ends and make it cheaper, for sure. I thought about those tube cages, they are really cheap on VT4C, but for a static home audio setup I'd rather see the tubes. Those cages could be added easy enough later.


and it makes it easier to switch tubes. BTW yesterday I tried a pair of 12BH7A, they sound magnificent in my pre the problem is that they are a bit taller, with cages or open design that would be no problem.


----------



## invecs

I see. I'll just hope that the judges would honor my paypal receipt. That's why i also purchased the power adapter so just in case I can't use it in my current class, I'll use it at home.


----------



## Victor_inox

invecs said:


> I see. I'll just hope that the judges would honor my paypal receipt. That's why i also purchased the power adapter so just in case I can't use it in my current class, I'll use it at home.


By the time you ready to compete I`ll finish my web page, you can always argue that is internet only manufacturer. Like Milbert and many others.


----------



## ISTundra

As it's shown, it's $52 in materials for the solid chunk plus the thin bottom plate. It would be cheaper to make separate side pieces but wouldn't look as clean either.

I have a concept for a cheaper design which consists of the PCB mounted to a base and a two-tiered polycarb top. No sides, visible board. It looks like a hobbyist/Arduino kit, which is not what I wanted, but it's a fairly cheap approach.


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> As it's shown, it's $52 in materials for the solid chunk plus the thin bottom plate. It would be cheaper to make separate side pieces but wouldn't look as clean either.
> That`s material alone, what would be price completed?
> I have a concept for a cheaper design which consists of the PCB mounted to a base and a two-tiered polycarb top. No sides, visible board. It looks like a hobbyist/Arduino kit, which is not what I wanted, but it's a fairly cheap approach.


I`m having hard time imagining that.


----------



## Velozity

Victor_inox said:


> retail store? there only 2 left in Colorado, cartoys and BB. There should be definition in the rule book.
> Commercial item? show them your paypal receipt as prove that you didn`t made it yourself.
> In races definition of production is very strict, how is that in competition rules I have no idea. Probably certain number of units made, if so what would be that number?





If you've registered your business, have some sort of customer interface (website would do), serialized the product so it's traceable for warranty or recalls, and sell the product for revenue then I would say that's production.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> If you've registered your business, have some sort of customer interface (website would do), serialized the product so it's traceable for warranty or recalls, and sell the product for revenue then I would say that's production.


working on it.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> If you've registered your business, have some sort of customer interface (website would do), serialized the product so it's traceable for warranty or recalls, and sell the product for revenue then I would say that's production.



1.registered business. done.
2.registered victorysonics.com/done
3. ordered serial # stickers with made in USA.

One of the buyers requested that I autograph the board.


----------



## cajunner

it could be "The Victor" like "The Fisher" for when people compare "The Milbert" 

and everybody likes to have an early edition.

I think having one of the first design models without serial numbers is possibly adding value to the retail cost, since the design, or proof of concept has been validated by the interest.

I don't know if it's too "black box" for competition circles, but I would expect that listing it in the audio chain would create a distinction that could hurt, and not help one's place in the judging.


----------



## Victor_inox

Early edition will not be better than 2nd edition and so forth, but without 1st edition sales newer editions would not exist. I will not get into my retirement fund to develop new versions. I`m selling it underpriced already.
Get it while you can at introductory price.
Every improvement I`m planning will increase cost, at least that`s how it looks so far.
custom cases would be biggest, following by custom transformer.
I think I`ll offer upgrade program and discount to original first edition buyers.


----------



## james2266

And are we still able to purchase first addition versions currently? I think I have myself convinced to get one now. Can I get a full price shipped here in Canada (T3M 0N7) and a list of exactly what options we can obtain on this. I am a little confused on exactly what you options are available and/or included as there has been so many different things talked about in this thread. I do want the wall plug option so I can use it in my home theater. This will be how I use it initially because who knows when I will get some time to actually work on my plans for the vehicle. Damned work and studying. If you prefer you can PM all of this so not to clutter up this thread.

Edit: Oh, forgot, probably looking at the 4 channel version as well.


----------



## Victor_inox

I know you`ve been waiting for reviews as many others.Two buyers said they will post reviews but I guess life got on the way and no reviews so far. Even though I`ve been told that and I quote" like it is understatement" and loving it. 
First edition is what shipped currently.
I`ll pm you shipping to Canada price later today or you can look it up yourself USPS priority international medium flat rate from 80126. 
options being cased or caseless, caseless $50 cheaper color of the case black or silver or powdercoated whatever color you want( $40-100 option) 
case mounted gold plated RCA instead of PCB mounted nickel plated ( $40) 
power supply for home use. ($5) tubes options can be discussed ( whatever market price is)

Customization will cause delay to get it done. black and silver cased stocked.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> I know you`ve been waiting for reviews as many others.Two buyers said they will post reviews but I guess life got on the way and no reviews so far. Even though I`ve been told that and I quote" like it is understatement" and loving it.
> First edition is what shipped currently.
> I`ll pm you shipping to Canada price later today or you can look it up yourself USPS priority international medium flat rate from 80126.
> options being cased or caseless, caseless $50 cheaper color of the case black or silver or powdercoated whatever color you want( $40-100 option)
> case mounted gold plated RCA instead of PCB mounted nickel plated ( $40)
> power supply for home use. ($5) tubes options can be discussed ( whatever market price is)
> 
> Customization will cause delay to get it done. black and silver cased stocked.


Yes, I have been waiting for reviews true but, to be honest, tube sound is something I have never witnessed and this is probably the easiest/cheapest way to trial it out. Making it useable in any of my setups is just gold too. When you get some time, please PM me a full price to me with a black case and gold rcas and I'll take the power supply for home use too. As for tube options, I will let you explain some differences or I am also cool with you just choosing something that's good bang for buck.

In the house, I was thinking of plugging it in between my dvd player and home audio receiver. I would make sure all surround processing is off and essentially run stereo with it only. This would give me the most out of the box at home correct?


----------



## Victor_inox

between dvd and receiver unless you receiver has tape in out so you can use not only dvd but anything connected to receiver.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Im one of the buyers to blame on not doing a review yet. I feel awful because ive told Victor several times I would get it done soon. Im currently working 55 hour weeks at the shop and running my roofing business another 30-40 hours a week aside from that. Then there is the rental properties and family I try to spent time with. Anyhow-

Not an official write up by any means due to having only a few minutes here but I can say I have my Preamp V1 playing in my computer room through a Denon 3805 to some old school Bose 201 speakers. My signal source has been either my phone or ipod- normal signal from mp3 files. I do not have any other option for signal at this time on this set up. As im writing bids and doing my thing with the side biz I have music playing, always. Ive run tracks I know and have listened to for years with and without the preamp since Ive set this in place. I have to say there IS a noticeable difference in sound and it is something I feel as being difficult to describe. Im not one for bullshitting about how great things are or the guy to use terms to seem like Ive been analyzing music all my life. I either like it or I don't and I have to admit, I really like what this preamp is doing.. Its nice, warmer and seems non colored. It sounds real, more detailed and profound. Some of the tracks that I know have always sounded better on great speakers & never sounded great on this set up (simple receiver in stereo/old bose). These sound great now.. I ordered the 4ch and am using it as a 2ch without doing the double pass through. Need more time-

I really do enjoy the differences this is making for me and plan to get another one. Ill likely still use this one as intended when ever I get around to finishing my car build and order another soon to use in my HT when I get to it. I truely feel Victor has a great grasp on what he is doing with these and is building a great product for a reasonable price. I love promoting small business and rather buy these from a good dude like Vic than anyone else online even if it were cheaper. The fact that you can talk to the man building what your paying for and even make small alterations based on your needs is awesome! Then to account for his correspondence and "stand behind his product" attitude raises the bar even further.

I want to thank you Victor for making these available to me "us" and say keep up the good work! You have a true repeat customer right here. Ill be back for more.

Thanks-

Steve


----------



## Victor_inox

THank you Steve for your time and kind words! It`s a pleasure to serve you!


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Yes, I have been waiting for reviews true but, to be honest, tube sound is something I have never witnessed and this is probably the easiest/cheapest way to trial it out. Making it useable in any of my setups is just gold too. When you get some time, please PM me a full price to me with a black case and gold rcas and I'll take the power supply for home use too. As for tube options, I will let you explain some differences or I am also cool with you just choosing something that's good bang for buck.
> 
> In the house, I was thinking of plugging it in between my dvd player and home audio receiver. I would make sure all surround processing is off and essentially run stereo with it only. This would give me the most out of the box at home correct?


PM sent, shipped to Canada 4ch with gold case mounted RCAs , power supply and matched electro harmonix12ax7 tubes $337.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> PM sent, shipped to Canada 4ch with gold case mounted RCAs , power supply and matched electro harmonix12ax7 tubes $337.


Sounds good. PM returned.


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> This isn't really a low cost case design, but I think I'm going to keep this in my home stereo chain for now so I want it to look a little more refined design-wise.
> I can bolt on a tube cage later if I decide to run it in my mobile install (already running tubes there).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope to be cutting metal by the weekend.


Any progress with the case?


----------



## ISTundra

Not much, dealing with food poisoning the past few days. I did simplify the case design to reduce machining and material cost, at least for the first one to see how it turns out.


----------



## Victor_inox

Take it easy, food poisoning sucks. 
first design was impressive waiting for first test run. good luck!


----------



## Victor_inox

bump TTT


----------



## Velozity

Victor_inox said:


> I know you`ve been waiting for reviews as many others.Two buyers said they will post reviews but I guess life got on the way and no reviews so far. Even though I`ve been told that and I quote" like it is understatement" and loving it.





Damn I'm busted. I guess since you quoted me I'll 'fess up and apologize for my review tardiness also. I've spent about 3 hours in "evaluation mode" switching the preamp in and out of the chain in a home setup. I'll post my mini-review in the Product Reviews section tonight. There's something I want to try first.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Damn I'm busted. I guess since you quoted me I'll 'fess up and apologize for my review tardiness also. I've spent about 3 hours in "evaluation mode" switching the preamp in and out of the chain in a home setup. I'll post my mini-review in the Product Reviews section tonight. There's something I want to try first.


You time, effort and honesty is truly appreciated Michael. link it in here as well please.


----------



## Carlton8000

I plan to post my Preview of the Tube Pre today.


----------



## Victor_inox

Easiest most cost efficient way to make tubes visible and got ventilation is to install computer fan guard, 80mm shown.
fan guard can be replaced by clear acrylic circe. using stand offs simplify tube swap as well.


----------



## Carlton8000

Carlton8000 said:


> I plan to post my Preview of the Tube Pre today.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...iew-victory-sonics-vk-tp4-mk.html#post2097447


----------



## Victor_inox

Carlton8000 said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...iew-victory-sonics-vk-tp4-mk.html#post2097447


 Thanks man! 
BTW Paint or powdercoat that mesh black.


----------



## Carlton8000

That is just my poor camera skills. The mesh was sprayed black. Looks much better in person and stealth for the casual passerby. 

Thanks


----------



## Velozity

I'm working on my review now...

Is VictorySonics one word or two?


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> I'm working on my review now...
> 
> Is VictorySonics one word or two?


I think 2.


----------



## cajunner

birth of a brand, looks like those of you who got in before serialization, should think twice about going for Victor's offer of "upgrade" with their units, as that would affect the potential investment value.

Just buy a second, or third... and leave the original in a climate controlled environment, and don't handle the aluminum heat sinks with bare hands.

of course, you could assume that I'm only half serious, but it doesn't take much of a leap of faith to look at what it would have been like to have one of the first of any audio acquisition that represents as significant an inclusion as "category" in the audio chain.

good luck everyone, with this lottery, as it's not so much a gamble as it is a sure thing.


----------



## thehatedguy

I think this is badassed. Maybe my run of bad luck will come to an end soon and I can get the extra funds to get one myself.


----------



## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> birth of a brand, looks like those of you who got in before serialization, should think twice about going for Victor's offer of "upgrade" with their units, as that would affect the potential investment value.
> 
> Just buy a second, or third... and leave the original in a climate controlled environment, and don't handle the aluminum heat sinks with bare hands.
> 
> of course, you could assume that I'm only half serious, but it doesn't take much of a leap of faith to look at what it would have been like to have one of the first of any audio acquisition that represents as significant an inclusion as "category" in the audio chain.
> 
> good luck everyone, with this lottery, as it's not so much a gamble as it is a sure thing.


 Aluminum cases anodized, bare hands will not harm that.
BTW, caseless amps shipped with a pair of gloves to handle tubes.


----------



## Velozity

Review posted. Good luck Vic.



http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/163255-victory-sonics-vk-4t-mk1-tube-pre-amplifier-review.html#post2097542


----------



## Victor_inox

bump ttt


----------



## Victor_inox

who is up for 8ch version? i need count before I order cases.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Im in Vic


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> Im in Vic


I need at least 4 buyers to get half decent price on cases.
I can bolt two cases together if you want it sooner and have ability to separate it to 2 4ch. Now when I said it out loud I like that idea.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> I need at least 4 buyers to get half decent price on cases.
> I can bolt two cases together if you want it sooner and have ability to separate it to 2 4ch. Now when I said it out loud I like that idea.


Hmm... I like that idea alot. I want to hear what this preamp can do first but I think this would be the best solution for me if I do indeed love 'tube sound'. I have never had the pleasure yet. I have a feeling I am going to love it tho. Would be cool if I could just order another 4 channel and be able to connect them together like this. Might be better for install having 2 boxes tho too. All that is said with me not having a clue as to where even one can be installed in the vehicle. It will be living in my home theater initially.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

I guess id have to see that design before I could sign off on it. Are you talking stacked boxes or end to end


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> I guess id have to see that design before I could sign off on it. Are you talking stacked boxes or end to end


Stacked would be easier but end to end would look better IMO and I can put cooling fan on the end plate.

stacked or end to end?


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Now that you put it that way, it does look much better end to end. Id love to machine a top to expose tubes. Is it safe to dismantel the one I have to investigate a new design?


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> Now that you put it that way, it does look much better end to end. Id love to machine a top to expose tubes. Is it safe to dismantel the one I have to investigate a new design?


go for it. 4 screws on each side. top and bottom pieces of each case identical, if you can make top part to fit two bottoms at the same time that would be sweet.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Hmm... I like that idea alot. I want to hear what this preamp can do first but I think this would be the best solution for me if I do indeed love 'tube sound'. I have never had the pleasure yet. I have a feeling I am going to love it tho. Would be cool if I could just order another 4 channel and be able to connect them together like this. Might be better for install having 2 boxes tho too. All that is said with me not having a clue as to where even one can be installed in the vehicle. It will be living in my home theater initially.


I will make one end to end tomorrow and post pictures. connecting two together would be piece of cake if you handy with tools.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Ill look into it..


----------



## piyush7243

Im in for a 4 channel with a case that can fit in a single din on the dash with tubes showing from the sides. 8 channel is also a great idea. But imho wouldn't need it in car audio though. Stacked one looks great though

Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

piyush7243 said:


> Im in for a 4 channel with a case that can fit in a single din on the dash with tubes showing from the sides. 8 channel is also a great idea. But imho wouldn't need it in car audio though. Stacked one looks great though
> 
> Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk


Probably will never happen, PCB with tubes is about 2.5" high how would you fit that in single din case? 8ch can be used in 3way active setup connecting 2nd 4ch in dual stage mode.


----------



## Victor_inox

2ch working prototype. not final just for comparison purposes.
9V battery shows for size reference.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> 2ch working prototype. not final just for comparison purposes.
> 9V battery shows for size reference.


Holy, that is impressive. Hmm... that would be easy to fit into the ride I think. That is if my 4 channel can't be made to fit and/or is impossible to get out of the bonus room in the house.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Holy, that is impressive. Hmm... that would be easy to fit into the ride I think. That is if my 4 channel can't be made to fit and/or is impossible to get out of the bonus room in the house.


Field tests not complete yet but looks promising. 
Here is another little teaser.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> Field tests not complete yet but looks promising.
> Here is another little teaser.


In a word, awesome. Might be seeing one of these in my future.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> In a word, awesome. Might be seeing one of these in my future.


ETA 1 month from today.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> ETA 1 month from today.


Cool, my 4channel is likely to arrive next week sometime so I should have a good amount of time to audition before seeing if I want to purchase another for the car - that is if the 4 channel is not fitable. What are the dimensions on that case for the new 2 channel anyways - if you have that info yet that is.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Cool, my 4channel is likely to arrive next week sometime so I should have a good amount of time to audition before seeing if I want to purchase another for the car - that is if the 4 channel is not fitable. What are the dimensions on that case for the new 2 channel anyways - if you have that info yet that is.


112x75x40mm. that if you prefer metric system.4,35"x3"x1,54" for Americans.


----------



## piyush7243

Victor_inox said:


> Probably will never happen, PCB with tubes is about 2.5" high how would you fit that in single din case? 8ch can be used in 3way active setup connecting 2nd 4ch in dual stage mode.


If its a 2.5" then not possible. Yeah. That would be possible. But really wanted to show off the tubes..


----------



## Victor_inox

piyush7243 said:


> If its a 2.5" then not possible. Yeah. That would be possible. But really wanted to show off the tubes..


Trust me I understand that desire. new 2ch would be doable though.


----------



## cobb2819

Victor_inox said:


> 2ch working prototype. not final just for comparison purposes.
> 9V battery shows for size reference.


Yes Please!!!


----------



## kappa546

Definitely interested in a 2ch.


----------



## EditTim

Watching this thread with great interest.

My HU is a Panny Bottlehead, that feeds a Zapco DSP-Z8 processor, that feeds the newer z-series amps.

Trouble is/was that the AUX input on the Panny kinda sucks sonically compared to the CD function, so my iPod now goes into a Pure i20 that feeds the DSP via optical digital. Sounds great, noise floor very low, but no tubes in the stream this way.

I'm thinking maybe a few of the 2-ch pre's could be between the DSP and the amps (3-way+sub=4 amps) might do the trick. This would put the tube pre in the stream coming from the digital signal from the iPod/iPhone, but it would also add it to the stream from the Panny (bottlehead) when playing CDs instead (which, admittedly, is less often).

Would this be desirable, or not?


----------



## Victor_inox

I dont have panny so I don't know. I feed ground zero reference tube hybrid amp from tube pre and I love results. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


----------



## kappa546

Do these heatsinks have end plates/sides?


----------



## Victor_inox

kappa546 said:


> Do these heatsinks have end plates/sides?


here we go.


----------



## kappa546

Great. I'm in for a 2ch in black whenever they're ready.


----------



## Victor_inox

kappa546 said:


> Great. I'm in for a 2ch in black whenever they're ready.



stay tuned.


----------



## Victor_inox

weekend special: free AC power supply and priority mail shipping in USA.
Next bunch will be serialized. I have 9 units to sell before then. Unless of course you want yours serialized. Until then your paypal receipt is your warranty registration.


----------



## Victor_inox

Also weekend buyers will can get free vent installed is desired $20 value.


----------



## jwdrums0

Hi Victor,

You have PM sir


----------



## Victor_inox

jwdrums0 said:


> Hi Victor,
> 
> You have PM sir


replied. Thank you!


----------



## 30something

kappa546 said:


> Great. I'm in for a 2ch in black whenever they're ready.


What he said! :rockon:


----------



## Victor_inox

Patience grasshoppers, almost there. Monday should post some video of 2ch mini pre working. I`ll be doing stress tests including running in oven at 180 degrees if my cables don`t melt or until then.


----------



## Victor_inox

update 7 non serialized units left.


----------



## Victor_inox

Victor_inox said:


> Patience grasshoppers, almost there. Monday should post some video of 2ch mini pre working. I`ll be doing stress tests including running in oven at 180 degrees if my cables don`t melt or until then.


technical delay, sorry. later today or tomorrow should be all done.


----------



## Victor_inox

Victor_inox said:


> replied. Thank you!


2 4ch shipped to Australia, it seems I sold more of those overseas.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> 2 4ch shipped to Australia, it seems I sold more of those overseas.


Canada is not overseas. According to Canadapost.ca mine should be delivered tomorrow. Looking forward to checking it out. I'll be sure to give my impressions here once I've had some time with it. It will be used in my home theater first.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Canada is not overseas. According to Canadapost.ca mine should be delivered tomorrow. Looking forward to checking it out. I'll be sure to give my impressions here once I've had some time with it. It will be used in my home theater first.


It made to Canada in 2 days, then it cleared customs in another 2. 
6 days including weekend is better that i thought.


----------



## Victor_inox

I was asked about future developments.
here is the list:
1. build in DAC.
2. single ended tube power amp.
3. hybrid tube-class D amplifier 50-100W. 

I have a lot on my table now, ETA unknown at this moment. 
i will keep production in US for sure, only cases made in PRC. 
I`m interested in custom case design and manufacturing, I keep looking.


----------



## cajunner

Victor_inox said:


> I was asked about future developments.
> here is the list:
> 1. build in DAC.
> 2. single ended tube power amp.
> 3. hybrid tube-class D amplifier 50-100W.
> 
> I have a lot on my table now, ETA unknown at this moment.
> i will keep production in US for sure, only cases made in PRC.
> I`m interested in custom case design and manufacturing, I keep looking.


I'd say concentrate on your tube pre-amp before branching out, these first models will define the brand.

It's nice that you've identified products that people may find appealing, I surely would like to see a market friendly (read: inexpensive) tube power amp, but working out any kinks that develop from longer term use, may be where more time spent pays off in the long run.

in the long run, haha...

I hope we can come back 10 years from now, and look at the starting point of Victory Sonics with fondness and nostalgia, lol...


----------



## Victor_inox

2ch Victory Sonics VK-TP2 mk1 is Going into production today,
I successfully killed prototype today running it for 5 hours in oven at 220 degrees, temperature not reachable in any car in any climate, well maybe under the hood next to Exhaust header, place I`m sure no one around here will install anything with wires except Oxygen sensors.
It run flawlessly for 3 hours at 180F and I decided to increase temp unreasonably for the sake of experiment. Final board layout as pictured earlier but with PCB mounted fuse holder and socketed tube for easy rolling/replacement. Sonically it`s identical to VK-TP4 but I`m planning to make signature series with top shelf parts and carefully selected tube. 
Introductory price $150 shipped in CONUS. customisations through PM. 

I need 10 preliminary orders to start production.


----------



## SkizeR

i really want one of these but im not sure how i could even use it in my install :/


----------



## Victor_inox

SkizeR said:


> i really want one of these but im not sure how i could even use it in my install :/


Is your system diagram current?


----------



## SkizeR

Victor_inox said:


> Is your system diagram current?


its in the process. all symbilink cables though


----------



## Velozity

Victor_inox said:


> 2ch Victory Sonics VK-TP2 mk1 is Going into production today,
> I successfully killed prototype today running it for 5 hours in oven at 220 degrees, temperature not reachable in any car in any climate, well maybe under the hood next to Exhaust header, place I`m sure no one around here will install anything with wires except Oxygen sensors.
> It run flawlessly for 3 hours at 180F and I decided to increase temp unreasonably for the sake of experiment. Final board layout as pictured earlier but with PCB mounted fuse holder and socketed tube for easy rolling/replacement. Sonically it`s identical to VK-TP4 but I`m planning to make signature series with top shelf parts and carefully selected tube.
> Introductory price $150 shipped in CONUS. customisations through PM.
> 
> I need 10 preliminary orders to start production.




Congrats Victor! The catalog is growing.


----------



## Victor_inox

SkizeR said:


> its in the process. all symbilink cables though


 THere is unbalanced to balanced converters, passive pretty cheap
Altinex SC206205 - SC206205 Passive Unbalanced to Balanced Audio Adapter - Herman ProAV
I used Samson to send balanced to my adcoms.


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Congrats Victor! The catalog is growing.


 Thanks Michael, your naming pattern if you noticed. 
I expect great success to 2 ch due to sonic benefits vs cost. 
I`m playing with customer adjusted tube bias before first production run. 
So mk2 maybe born before mk1 ever sold.


----------



## Victor_inox

Friday bump, 7 4ch in stock. black or silver.


----------



## Victor_inox

bumpity!


----------



## Victor_inox

2ch delayed, I'm redoing power supply, PCB layout most likely will be changed a little. 4ch version available


----------



## Victor_inox

Ordered test run of 2ch mini pre PCBs, ETA 2 weeks.


----------



## cobb2819

This is good news. Are the rcas going to be hard mounted to the board, or can pigtails be used?


----------



## Victor_inox

cobb2819 said:


> This is good news. Are the rcas going to be hard mounted to the board, or can pigtails be used?


RCA soldered to the board. I can ship without RCA if you want to make something yourself. I can sell it without case if you want to hide it somewhere or whatever your custom project is.


----------



## james2266

Hey Victor, any chance of something like this:

2 channel version like you are planning but with 2 tubes setup for dual stage and only one gain for both channels? I would be quite interested if such a thing could remain in that tiny footprint. Thinking it would go right beside my processor under my drivers' seat.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Hey Victor, any chance of something like this:
> 
> 2 channel version like you are planning but with 2 tubes setup for dual stage and only one gain for both channels? I would be quite interested if such a thing could remain in that tiny footprint. Thinking it would go right beside my processor under my drivers' seat.


2 tubes in that footprint physically impossible unless mounted on top of each other even then there will be no room for transformer. crowded layout is also prone to noise. I will not compromise sound quality at the price of smaller footprint. 
one pot controlling both will be an easy thing to do but why? they suppose to be set and forget.
4ch or 2 stage will remain the same for now. Unless more people buy it I have no funds for new developments. I have an idea to mount tubes horizontally to make it not as tall but that also required custom r core or toroidal transformer( not cheap proposition). transformer is next tallest part.


----------



## Victor_inox

Victor_inox said:


> Friday bump, 7 4ch in stock. black or silver.


 Still have 5 available for immediate shipping, each pre shipped with AC power supply for home use and spare plug for in car install. 
I can customize 2ch 2 stage pre to eliminate patching 1st pair outs to 2nd pair ins. That will be hard wired internally instead.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> Still have 5 available for immediate shipping, each pre shipped with AC power supply for home use and spare plug for in car install.
> I can customize 2ch 2 stage pre to eliminate patching 1st pair outs to 2nd pair ins. That will be hard wired internally instead.


Can I get dimensions of this and a price? Need to make sure it fits first and of course find the money somewhere around here.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Can I get dimensions of this and a price? Need to make sure it fits first and of course find the money somewhere around here.


 James, I guess I wasn't clear, I was talking about 4ch version, just like one you already got. I can make you one preproduction2ch in case 67x93x55mm That for $150 plus whatever postage.


----------



## kappa546

What's the story with the 2 channels? Are they almost ready?


----------



## Victor_inox

kappa546 said:


> What's the story with the 2 channels? Are they almost ready?


pcbs ordered,10 15 days.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


----------



## ISTundra

Finally getting close to finishing off the case. I have a few gaps and fit issues to clean up, and then decide on the finish (paint, polish, or anodize). Overall, I think it turned out decent.


----------



## Victor_inox

I like it, 3 main parts should bring cost to acceptable level. 
can you make me one? I`d powdercoat it wrinkled black. would look bad ass.


----------



## kappa546

That looks sick!


----------



## deeppinkdiver

IStundra beat me too it. Ill have mine done hopefully in the next week or two. That design look great btw! Good job, definitely a worthy install piece now!


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> Finally getting close to finishing off the case. I have a few gaps and fit issues to clean up, and then decide on the finish (paint, polish, or anodize). Overall, I think it turned out decent.



Can you post pics of it open, I`m wondering how you get around components.


----------



## ISTundra

Victor_inox said:


> Can you post pics of it open, I`m wondering how you get around components.


I'll post more pics tonight. It's actually 8 pieces, bottom, 2 ends, connector side panel, other side panel, top plate, piece over transformer and tall caps, and recessed cutouts around tubes. And then the PCB is mounted to hex standoffs off the bottom plate. I couldn't do this from 3 solid pieces because the material costs and machine time were prohibitive. Even so, this wasn't all that cheap to make.

I need to thin the end caps down a bit more, to get rid to the gaps under the connector side panel at the bottom plate.

I plan to spray it with plastidip first, just to get an idea of how it might look finished. That way I can peel it off if I don't like how it turns out. All black, except the recesses around the tubes will be in white, for style contrast.


----------



## rton20s

ISTundra, the case design looks great. I'd definitely go with an anodized finish if feasible. Even just a clear, hard ano would look awesome.


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> I'll post more pics tonight. It's actually 8 pieces, bottom, 2 ends, connector side panel, other side panel, top plate, piece over transformer and tall caps, and recessed cutouts around tubes. And then the PCB is mounted to hex standoffs off the bottom plate. I couldn't do this from 3 solid pieces because the material costs and machine time were prohibitive. Even so, this wasn't all that cheap to make.
> 
> I need to thin the end caps down a bit more, to get rid to the gaps under the connector side panel at the bottom plate.
> 
> I plan to spray it with plastidip first, just to get an idea of how it might look finished. That way I can peel it off if I don't like how it turns out. All black, except the recesses around the tubes will be in white, for style contrast.


 waiting for pictures and PM price quote please. I can also powdercoat it contrast as you described. BTW I can supply you with 6061 alu it you need it, i pay $4LB at local surplus store.


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> IStundra beat me too it. Ill have mine done hopefully in the next week or two. That design look great btw! Good job, definitely a worthy install piece now!


 do it anyway.


----------



## Victor_inox

irf510 is main heat producer in this design, not tubes. maybe couple holes under and over it would be a good idea. hard to tell without testing. let me know if you need help locating it on PCB.


----------



## ISTundra

Here's a couple of gut shots, damn sun's a little bright right now. Where is irf510?


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Very nice design.. I love the use of the slots for the side inserts. .062 endmill or .125?


----------



## Victor_inox

IRF510 marked Q1 on PCB. see pic.
I`d run it in the case without holes, I`m sure it will be just fine. 
alu dissipate heat well or replace thin alu inserts with hexagonal meshhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F3FJYSQ/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It`s 0.060"thick. That will give plenty of cooling too


----------



## ISTundra

deeppinkdiver said:


> Very nice design.. I love the use of the slots for the side inserts. .062 endmill or .125?


.062

I frequently pass through Dayton on business, always make a point to stop at Jim's Donut Shop.


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> .062
> 
> I frequently pass through Dayton on business, always make a point to stop at Jim's Donut Shop.


See, that mesh insert would be perfect fit.


----------



## vulgamore89

ISTundra said:


> Finally getting close to finishing off the case. I have a few gaps and fit issues to clean up, and then decide on the finish (paint, polish, or anodize). Overall, I think it turned out decent.


I think polished would look really awesome. Would just be a lot of upkeep to keep it looking nice. Otherwise I'd go anodized


----------



## deeppinkdiver

ISTundra said:


> .062
> 
> I frequently pass through Dayton on business, always make a point to stop at Jim's Donut Shop.


There is Bill's donuts on 48 in Centerville thats not far from me at all, (im in Bellbrook) that place puts magic in their donuts. hahaa. I havent had Jim's, im not originally from here though.

Feel free to get in touch next time your passing thru, we can meet up.


----------



## ISTundra

deeppinkdiver said:


> There is Bill's donuts on 48 in Centerville thats not far from me at all, (im in Bellbrook) that place puts magic in their donuts. hahaa. I havent had Jim's, im not originally from here though.
> 
> Feel free to get in touch next time your passing thru, we can meet up.


I don't ever get over the Bellbrook way. My business visits are actually in Cinci, just sometimes fly into DAY to avoid the fare rape at CVG.


----------



## Ryanu

Hi Victor, this tube preamp looks badass! Would you consider shipping this to Malaysia? What would be the shipping cost is like you reckon?


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> Hi Victor, this tube preamp looks badass! Would you consider shipping this to Malaysia? What would be the shipping cost is like you reckon?


 last few pictures is not my enclosure if you asking about that. preamp shipped in plain black or silver anodized case.
or ventilated one








shipping to Malaysia USPS priority medium flat rate shows $65.


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> Hi Victor, this tube preamp looks badass! Would you consider shipping this to Malaysia? What would be the shipping cost is like you reckon?


If you have friends or family in states- US shipping is free.


----------



## Victor_inox

weekend bump.


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> last few pictures is not my enclosure if you asking about that. preamp shipped in plain black or silver anodized case.
> or ventilated one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shipping to Malaysia USPS priority medium flat rate shows $65.


Vic.. yeah im aware of the housing.. urs come with black or silver. Let me check with my other buddies if they r interested. So that we could split the shipping. Will get back to u once confirmed.


----------



## Victor_inox

medium flat rate box fits 2, large fits 4.


----------



## Victor_inox

Monday bump.


----------



## Victor_inox

new see through case, made to order.


----------



## kappa546

Update on the 2ch?


----------



## Victor_inox

pcbs ordered- waiting for delivery. one week or so.


----------



## Victor_inox

*Signature edition.*

I`d like to introduce signature edition of 4ch/2ch dual stage pres.
proven genuine nichicon caps, 1% matched resistors and matched tubes. both sections matched within 1-3% PCB and case signed with real 18k gold. 
silver solder used everywhere as well.
Intro price $350 delivered conus. 3year warranty. 
I realise that signed by me doesn`t mean much if anything but everything else has sonic benefits.
Well maybe that was a stupid move, two days and not a single comment.
Anyway, these two beauties shipped to Malaysia


----------



## Victor_inox

kappa546 said:


> Update on the 2ch?


PCBs delivered, one assembled and running some measurements now.
self resetting fuse implemented, no need to replace fuses ever. see that small round brown thing next to power wires?
questions?


----------



## kappa546

Great! Any heatsinks yet?


----------



## Victor_inox

kappa546 said:


> Great! Any heatsinks yet?


are you talking about cases?







that PCB made specifically for these cases. rcas rerouted to one side but gain pot will be on adjacent side because RCA side got crowded. I put a lot of thoughts into it and sure that will work best.


----------



## kappa546

Yea. What case are you talking about?


----------



## Victor_inox

I guess I call enclosure case and you call in heatsink, yeh?


----------



## Ryanu

Can't wait for mine to arrive ?

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> Can't wait for mine to arrive ?
> 
> Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk


 patience, should be in Malaysia in a few days.


----------



## kappa546

Victor_inox said:


> I guess I call enclosure case and you call in heatsink, yeh?


Oh ok I see it now, for some reason when I saw your response the picture didn't show up. Awesome, been waiting on the 2 channels. Side plates on the case?


----------



## kappa546

Oh and are there power terminals out just wires coming out of the case?


----------



## Victor_inox

Of course there side plates and power plug, I should receive PCBs on Tuesday/wednesday of this week. by the end of the week completed pres will be ready to go.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> Of course there side plates and power plug, I should receive PCBs on Tuesday/wednesday of this week. by the end of the week completed pres will be ready to go.


I might just have to pick one of those up. Can you save me digging here and re-post dimensions? The most important to me is the height of the case as it needs to go under a seat.


----------



## [email protected]

Victor_inox said:


> are you talking about cases?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that PCB made specifically for these cases. rcas rerouted to one side but gain pot will be on adjacent side because RCA side got crowded. I put a lot of thoughts into it and sure that will work best.


Is that a little-bear in that case?


----------



## Victor_inox

Yes,some chinese crap


----------



## cajunner

at the bottom of your computer display, the "tray" I think it's called, there's a ****load of icons down there...





my computer has 6 of 'em, lol.



anyways, the gold pen signature thing, maybe it's a good idea but from here it's going to make those pre-amps special by how few of them there will be, as an idea that didn't quite fly...


so get your special gold pen versions before they are discontinued, folks...


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> I might just have to pick one of those up. Can you save me digging here and re-post dimensions? The most important to me is the height of the case as it needs to go under a seat.


2ch mini?
(outer):38mm(1.5")(H)x74mm(2.91")(W)x110mm(4.33")(L)


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> 2ch mini?
> (outer):38mm(1.5")(H)x74mm(2.91")(W)x110mm(4.33")(L)


1.5 inches height is perfect and under 3 inchx4.5inch is awesome. Let me know when it is ready for ship. It was $150+ship correct? I guess I should take a min. and actually hook my 4 channel into my car setup and see what it does first. I have a day off later this week. With no wife around and no real plans I should be able to get it done then. I will most certainly report back my findings here. I assume it will do the same in the car as my home setup. Still be interesting to hear.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> 1.5 inches height is perfect and under 3 inchx4.5inch is awesome. Let me know when it is ready for ship. It was $150+ship correct? I guess I should take a min. and actually hook my 4 channel into my car setup and see what it does first. I have a day off later this week. With no wife around and no real plans I should be able to get it done then. I will most certainly report back my findings here. I assume it will do the same in the car as my home setup. Still be interesting to hear.



take your 4ch to the car already, try in single stage mode and will hear exactly what 2ch mini will do. they are virtually identical, at least signal path is. Let me get it assembled/ evaluated before final price published.
looks like 2ch mini cost me $27 less to make as 4 ch version. You can count on at least that difference.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> take your 4ch to the car already, try in single stage mode and will hear exactly what 2ch mini will do. they are virtually identical, at least signal path is. Let me get it assembled/ evaluated before final price published.
> looks like 2ch mini cost me $27 less to make as 4 ch version. You can count on at least that difference.


Sounds good. I will only use one set of channels then and skip the 2 stage. Well, I might give that a listen too to see if I can tell a difference there too. Let me know when you have them all ready for shipment and have a full price.


----------



## Victor_inox

Sure will.
2 stages sounds different and has more adjustability.
I recommend you try that. there is 2 different ways to set 2 stage,
left ch from HU plugged in ch1 input, ch1 output plugged to ch2 input.
cg2 out will be left combined
right ch from HU plugged in ch3 input,ch3 out into ch 4 input.
out 4 will be right combined. 
In that case volume pots will be separate for right/left.

Second way is to plug ch1/2 outs into ch 3/4 ins. 
1st tube sections will handle 1 and second stage of left ch
2nd tube sections handle right.


----------



## Victor_inox

2ch would be ready today yay! Just waiting on USPS guy to bring me some critical parts. Also EL34 single ended power amp is almost done 15 w don`t sound like much but paired with horns or high sensitivity drivers would be plenty for a car.
I can`t keep up with inbox being full. just email me with any questions. [email protected]


----------



## Victor_inox

2ch mini ready for shipment. 2ch cost me $27 less to make ,I`ll offer 2ch for $50 less $200, 4ch still 250. 
$180 for those who bought my 4ch version.
I`ll make power plug on the same cover plate as RCA or opposite cover- your choice or mine if you don`t care. 
self reset fuse on this one.

Questions?


----------



## Victor_inox

7 Hours and not a single reply? Where the **** all these people who asked numerous times about it?


----------



## deeppinkdiver

^ seems odd. There were a lot of questions about when the two channel was going to be available..

Maybe everybody was busy yesterday.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> 7 Hours and not a single reply? Where the **** all these people who asked numerous times about it?





deeppinkdiver said:


> ^ seems odd. There were a lot of questions about when the two channel was going to be available..
> 
> Maybe everybody was busy yesterday.


Like Pink stated, I was stupid busy last night with this damned course I have to take for work. I did see the release post about the 2 channel but only from work on my phone so couldn't see much. I just now looked at the pics and everything. Discount is always appreciated too man I'll see what the paypal situation looks like when I get home from work today. If I can find a way I'll grab one from you later today. I still haven't had a chance to get it into the car to test yet tho. Hopefully this weekend. I want to make sure there are no issues with my setup with it in the line.


----------



## Victor_inox

Steve, he called you Pink man. this is cute.


----------



## Velozity

Is it ok to mount my 4ch pre vertically? I'm finally ready to install it in the truck after enjoying it so much at home, but I want to mount it on a vertical side wall. That means the tubes would sit horizontally. However I really like the slim profile of the 2ch mini. What's the cost of a 2ch without a case? I could also see myself running 3 of them side-by-side in a custom polished enclosure...


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Is it ok to mount my 4ch pre vertically? I'm finally ready to install it in the truck after enjoying it so much at home, but I want to mount it on a vertical side wall. That means the tubes would sit horizontally. However I really like the slim profile of the 2ch mini. What's the cost of a 2ch without a case? I could also see myself running 3 of them side-by-side in a custom polished enclosure...


ataboy. horizontally not recommended, Vibration might kill the tube faster, 2-3 thousand hours. In theory, practically I think it`s BS,why you wouldn`t do it and see if road bumps kill the tube. I know i wouldn`t mount power tubes horizontally, I witnessed them die and they not as cheap as pre tubes. 
$150 without case, PCB with tube only, delivered. if you buy 3 I`ll drop further. fair?


----------



## Velozity

Sounds good, thanks Vic. I really think building a custom 6ch is the way I want to go. Is your website up and running yet?


----------



## Victor_inox

Velozity said:


> Sounds good, thanks Vic. I really think building a custom 6ch is the way I want to go. Is your website up and running yet?



No website yet, I registered domain victorysonics.com to my name but as one man operations I simply don`t have time to develope website yet.
I want basic informative site with forum so it will not be just info and sales but true user experience. 
Now Single ended power amp is taking a lot of time to make it right and presentable prototype will be done in a week or 2. 
I`m very excited about true audiophile tube power amp for 12V environment. 
Custom case pres can be beautiful and functional, look what ISTundra done to his, awesome. You can alway just get caseless and do as your imagination and abilities permits.


----------



## Porgy

Victor_inox said:


> No website yet, I registered domain victorysonics.com to my name but as one man operations I simply don`t have time to develope website yet.
> I want basic informative site with forum so it will not be just info and sales but true user experience.
> Now Single ended power amp is taking a lot of time to make it right and presentable prototype will be done in a week or 2.
> I`m very excited about true audiophile tube power amp for 12V environment.
> Custom case pres can be beautiful and functional, look what ISTundra done to his, awesome. You can alway just get caseless and do as your imagination and abilities permits.


If you are looking for someone to design, develop, and implement your site and would be willing to work on trade for one of those shiny preamps... I'm your huckleberry.


----------



## Victor_inox

Porgy said:


> If you are looking for someone to design, develop, and implement your site and would be willing to work on trade for one of those shiny preamps... I'm your huckleberry.


That`s sound like a good idea, can you link me to some of your work?
I`m not asking for your portfolio just to get starting idea.


----------



## ISTundra

Victor_inox said:


> ataboy. horizontally not recommended, Vibration might kill the tube faster, 2-3 thousand hours. In theory, practically I think it`s BS,why you wouldn`t do it and see if road bumps kill the tube. I know i wouldn`t mount power tubes horizontally, I witnessed them die and they not as cheap as pre tubes.
> $150 without case, PCB with tube only, delivered. if you buy 3 I`ll drop further. fair?


Hmm... never thought about it before, but the cautions about horizontally mounted tubes could be legit.

I have a tube amp in my install now where the tubes are horizontally mounted in the amp. In the past 6 months I have had 3 tubes go bad. (1 just flat out died, the other 2 went microphonic). I don't know if this has to to with the fact that I'm running ~50 yr old vintage tubes, or that I may need to isolate the amp better from transmitted vibration or because they are mounted horizontal. I did install damper rings on the tubes, but not sure what effectiveness they have because all 3 tubes died with the dampers in place.

The tubes used in Vic's preamps are fairly cheap and common so I'd say that a potentially high tube failure rate wouldn't be such a big deal.


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> Hmm... never thought about it before, but the cautions about horizontally mounted tubes could be legit.
> 
> I have a tube amp in my install now where the tubes are horizontally mounted in the amp. In the past 6 months I have had 3 tubes go bad. (1 just flat out died, the other 2 went microphonic). I don't know if this has to to with the fact that I'm running ~50 yr old vintage tubes, or that I may need to isolate the amp better from transmitted vibration or because they are mounted horizontal. I did install damper rings on the tubes, but not sure what effectiveness they have because all 3 tubes died with the dampers in place.
> 
> The tubes used in Vic's preamps are fairly cheap and common so I'd say that a potentially high tube failure rate wouldn't be such a big deal.


 You forgot important part- easily replaceable. EH series I supply in my pre made tough they better survive than vintage tubes but still. 

Vintage tubes in car is a no no. it would hurt like a ***** to kill NOS bugle boys of telefunkens. 
What else tube gear you running in your car?
You can find similar to turntable isolation mounts to prevent harsh vibration. Mount on top of a sub is also bad idea. dampers like rubber bands? these are useless. tube filament li incandescent bulb to a point, shake it hard when it lit and filament goes bye bye. 
vertical mount is better than damper but combination of both is better than any one.


----------



## ISTundra

Victor_inox said:


> You forgot important part- easily replaceable. EH series I supply in my pre made tough they better survive than vintage tubes but still.
> 
> Vintage tubes in car is a no no. it would hurt like a ***** to kill NOS bugle boys of telefunkens.
> What else tube gear you running in your car?
> You can find similar to turntable isolation mounts to prevent harsh vibration. Mount on top of a sub is also bad idea. dampers like rubber bands? these are useless. tube filament li incandescent bulb to a point, shake it hard when it lit and filament goes bye bye.
> vertical mount is better than damper but combination of both is better than any one.


Phass 4-channel amp with tubes in the preamp stage.








These tubes are 6N3P, the EH's are more durable as you noted. The vintage tubes in my amp are Western Electric 396A's. You are right, they are not very durable. I had some 80's vintage military grade GE JAN 5670's that I never had any problems with, and they were much cheaper than the the WE396A's and sounded almost identical.

The tube dampers I'm using can be seen in the pic. I don't know that they do anything helpful. I did try vibration isolator pads under the amp but that seemed to be worse than hard mounting. Next, I'm going to try sorbothane pads.

On your new 2 channel, is it possible to get an RCA socket that comes away (perpendicular) off the PCB? rather than off the end, so the RCA would come out the same side as they tube?


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> Phass 4-channel amp with tubes in the preamp stage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These tubes are 6N3P, the EH's are more durable as you noted. The vintage tubes in my amp are Western Electric 396A's. You are right, they are not very durable. I had some 80's vintage military grade GE JAN 5670's that I never had any problems with, and they were much cheaper than the the WE396A's and sounded almost identical.
> 
> The tube dampers I'm using can be seen in the pic. I don't know that they do anything helpful. I did try vibration isolator pads under the amp but that seemed to be worse than hard mounting. Next, I'm going to try sorbothane pads.
> 
> On your new 2 channel, is it possible to get an RCA socket that comes away (perpendicular) off the PCB? rather than off the end, so the RCA would come out the same side as they tube?


6N3P is russian tube produced by chinese good tube but western substitute scarce. 5670 good tube, i have a few designs using that tube. IMHO your dampers do more hard as good, hot glue is need to go. it make direct vibration transfer to the tube body. they do that to prevent tube losing contact in socket. remove it, it's bad design. 
I can solder vertical rca t if you want- piece of cake. like this?


----------



## ISTundra

Victor_inox said:


> I can solder vertical rca t if you want- piece of cake. like this?


I think that is what I might want but I suppose I'd need to see it on the board. It seems like the gain pot location may interfere with pressing an RCA fully onto the end socket?

What about leaving the RCA's unmounted and attaching leads back to the PCB? Would this create a potential for noise?


----------



## Victor_inox

ISTundra said:


> I think that is what I might want but I suppose I'd need to see it on the board. It seems like the gain pot location may interfere with pressing an RCA fully onto the end socket?
> 
> What about leaving the RCA's unmounted and attaching leads back to the PCB? Would this create a potential for noise?


Either rca have exactly the same footprint.
I'll try and get back to you on that. short leads save to do with no noise problem, case itself shielding interference well.


----------



## Victor_inox

Payday bump.


----------



## stickpony

Victor_inox said:


> Thank you for your support!
> Funny you mentioned that. Buttler design is nothing in comparison with active pre stage. buttler tubes works in diode mode and can be completely eliminated, amp will still sound normally to most people. I`ve had one and after I realised that Buttler is in fact "fake" tube amp I decided to make my own.
> It`s imposible to a/b compare buttler with or without tubes in reasonable time frame as you`d have to desolder tubes from the board.
> What butler did for pro audio is nowhere close what he is doing with car amps. not sonically, nor electronically. He is selling his amps based on his past in pro audio, not real performance. If you were impressed by buttler amps you will be blown away by comparison.


that was true with the first few iterations of his amps, but the pre-amp section in the tube driver Blue amps, his latest version, is all tube, if im not mistaken. its not like the old verisions where it was in diode mode and you had a distortion knob that added or subtracted the "tube" effect.

I have the 5 channel version of the tube driver blue, and absolute love it, it legitimately has a tube sound to it, but i will say that the US Amps tu-4360 and tu-600 amps sound even better than the Butler tube driver blue.


----------



## Victor_inox

stickpony said:


> that was true with the first few iterations of his amps, but the pre-amp section in the tube driver Blue amps, his latest version, is all tube, if im not mistaken. its not like the old versions where it was in diode mode and you had a distortion knob that added or subtracted the "tube" effect.
> 
> I have the 5 channel version of the tube driver blue, and absolute love it, it legitimately has a tube sound to it, but i will say that the US Amps tu-4360 and tu-600 amps sound even better than the Butler tube driver blue.


 You are mistaken, Blue amps tubes set in diode mode and can not even theoretically affect sound. You can disagree but that can`t dismiss a fact that if you desolder tubes from PCB and turn on blue amp it still sounds the same as it was with tubes in place. 
do the same thing to us amps you've got silence- no sound at all. 
Butlers sound fine, nothing special, you like it and that`s what matters. 
I dislike mine and it was latest version they make. I never played with older version with distortion knob therefore have nothing to say about it. 
In short I`d take US- Amps 4350 or 600 over butler blue.


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> I`d like to introduce signature edition of 4ch/2ch dual stage pres.
> 
> proven genuine nichicon caps, 1% matched resistors and matched tubes. both sections matched within 1-3% PCB and case signed with real 18k gold.
> 
> silver solder used everywhere as well.
> 
> Intro price $350 delivered conus. 3year warranty.
> 
> I realise that signed by me doesn`t mean much if anything but everything else has sonic benefits.
> 
> Well maybe that was a stupid move, two days and not a single comment.
> 
> Anyway, these two beauties shipped to Malaysia



Might be getting em soon ... They have landed, pending custom clearance though. Will try to post a review once I have received them. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## james2266

Hey Victor, I was finally able to hook up my 4 channel pre to my car setup and it was a noticeable difference. I had to jury-rig it however so i was only able to play it for a few mins and not with the engine running. I didn't take the time to set the gains exactly right either. Nonetheless, it was enough to make me want one of those 2 channel guys in my signal path. The problem is that after dropping almost $400 yesterday on trees for my back yard, I am going to have to wait a month or two to get the cash together. Sorry about that but being the time of year it is and me with a couple giant holes in the backyard due to dead trees being yanked out, I had to do this now. I hope to be able to pick one of those up from you in a couple months (maybe sooner).

As for what I noticed, it was kind of weird and hard to explain. It definitely had that open unveiled sound (same as my home setup's effect) but it also seemed to have better imaging and it screwed my imaging a little to the passenger side? That last part is the weird part as I don't see howwhat could cause that really. I didn't take much time to set up things at all correct tho so maybe that had everything to do with that.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Hey Victor, I was finally able to hook up my 4 channel pre to my car setup and it was a noticeable difference. I had to jury-rig it however so i was only able to play it for a few mins and not with the engine running. I didn't take the time to set the gains exactly right either. Nonetheless, it was enough to make me want one of those 2 channel guys in my signal path. The problem is that after dropping almost $400 yesterday on trees for my back yard, I am going to have to wait a month or two to get the cash together. Sorry about that but being the time of year it is and me with a couple giant holes in the backyard due to dead trees being yanked out, I had to do this now. I hope to be able to pick one of those up from you in a couple months (maybe sooner).
> 
> As for what I noticed, it was kind of weird and hard to explain. It definitely had that open unveiled sound (same as my home setup's effect) but it also seemed to have better imaging and it screwed my imaging a little to the passenger side? That last part is the weird part as I don't see howwhat could cause that really. I didn't take much time to set up things at all correct tho so maybe that had everything to do with that.


 you do what you have to do, you`d buy 2ch when you ready.
Linearity of sensitivity pots might be inconsistent , most likely is.
As you add new device in sound path you`d have to rerun tuning for best result.


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> Might be getting em soon ... They have landed, pending custom clearance though. Will try to post a review once I have received them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Don`t try, just do it!


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> you do what you have to do, you`d buy 2ch when you ready.
> Linearity of sensitivity pots might be inconsistent , most likely is.
> As you add new device in sound path you`d have to rerun tuning for best result.


Yes, probably right on the tuning part. Thanks for being understanding. I will get in touch when the funds are available again; probably less than 2 months. Maybe I will see what I have that I can hauk on here too:laugh:. $185 shouldn't be that hard to come by. BTW, you have these in black as well as silver correct? I would want black if it is an option. Also has the same power connector setup as my 4 channel? ie. single ended plug with +- connectors.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Yes, probably right on the tuning part. Thanks for being understanding. I will get in touch when the funds are available again; probably less than 2 months. Maybe I will see what I have that I can hauk on here too:laugh:. $185 shouldn't be that hard to come by. BTW, you have these in black as well as silver correct? I would want black if it is an option. Also has the same power connector setup as my 4 channel? ie. single ended plug with +- connectors.


Black anodized cases must be custom ordered and quiet pricier. 
I don`t have any , only silver. I can powdercoat them pretty much any color for $20. Or you can get a can of paint and do that yourself. Not as durable as powder coating but free. I hate to make product more expensive if it not improve sound quality or durability- essential qualities. 
Same power connector.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> Black anodized cases must be custom ordered and quiet pricier.
> I don`t have any , only silver. I can powdercoat them pretty much any color for $20. Or you can get a can of paint and do that yourself. Not as durable as powder coating but free. I hate to make product more expensive if it not improve sound quality or durability- essential qualities.
> Same power connector.


Ah, did not realize the black was more money. I doubt anyone will be seeing it anyways really and I agree with keeping costs down for non-sq type 'upgrades'.


----------



## Victor_inox

Anodizing should cost the same for whatever color. I guess my Chinese supplier trying to extort more money from me. I said ok send me clear than. Been promised to renegotiate pricing at next ordering. Well see then for now I only offer clear or custom powder coating for 20 extra.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox

Here is some pics showing fully assembled units.
you can order whatever led color you want to match your install.
power plug and ac adapter included just like pictured.


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> Don`t try, just do it!



Lol... Roger that sir! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## stickpony

Victor_inox said:


> You are mistaken, Blue amps tubes set in diode mode and can not even theoretically affect sound. You can disagree but that can`t dismiss a fact that if you desolder tubes from PCB and turn on blue amp it still sounds the same as it was with tubes in place.
> do the same thing to us amps you've got silence- no sound at all.
> Butlers sound fine, nothing special, you like it and that`s what matters.
> I dislike mine and it was latest version they make. I never played with older version with distortion knob therefore have nothing to say about it.
> In short I`d take US- Amps 4350 or 600 over butler blue.


Hey Victor, not to pull punches here, but you are wrong about the Butler Tube Driver Blue. Here is a repsonse from BK Butler himself, he sent this to me via email:

"UNTRUE.
The TDBs(Tube Driver BLUE) do not operate without the tubes installed.
However I made a ‘fail safe mode in the former Tube Driver 1500 design amps which allowed them to automatically operate in solid state mode if the tube failed. 

Idiots who know nothing about my circuits have spread false rumors that the tubes in the former design were therefore not being used, etc. WRONG!! If any of these fools would just READ MY PATENT, they would understand exactly what I did on those previous models. The failsafe mode came from my pro music background where the ‘show must go on’.

Anyway, US Patent office would never have granted me 2 patents on these designs if they didn’t utilize the tubes exactly as I say they do. 


Obviously the person who wrote that about the current TDB(Tube Driver BLUE) amps never actually TRIED taking a tube out… it WILL NOT WORK without tubes installed… amazing how false rumors persist!!

Best,
BK Butler "


So yeah, i knew you had to be mistaken. the older design is the one you must've tried, and when you ripped the tube out, it went into failsafe mode and continued to play, but based on what Mr Butler has written me, the latest models, the Tube Driver blue Line, will not play without the tubes in.

At some point in the near future, i may be taking out my 5-channel Butler Audio Tube Driver Blue amp, as i am doing a whole revamp of my car's audio system. at that point, if you are game, because of your solid reputation on the forums, i could lend it to you for some testing if you'd like, being the tube advocate that you are, and we could get to the bottom of this together. let me know sir.


----------



## Victor_inox

OK, Mr Butler says he received patents on unique way cheating customers into tube sound realm, good for him.
Actually if you think about it switching into solid state stage with tubes removed would be a perfect way to defend "fake tube" topology he patented. 
why wouldn`t you ask Mr Butler join our discussion here and kill that myth about his amps once and for all. 
unless he is here I don`t want to discuss his product further. If you want to talk about mine, you are very welcome to do so.
I hope I`ve been clear about that. 
I`d be more than happy to demonstrate how butler works with or without tubes in place when you up to it. with measurements and graphs. 
At this point I don`t think I compete with butler products. Firstly because I don`t offer hybrid amp and my preamp cost 1/3 or his. secondly because mine is real tube preamp with 20GB gain. and his tube section has no gain at all. Most importantly you can still use you favorite solid state amplifier with tandem with mine and in many cases it will cost you less money than butler or anything else hybrid for this matter.


----------



## stickpony

Victor_inox said:


> OK, Mr Butler says he received patents on unique way cheating customers into tube sound realm, good for him.
> Actually if you think about it switching into solid state stage with tubes removed would be a perfect way to defend "fake tube" topology he patented.
> why wouldn`t you ask Mr Butler join our discussion here and kill that myth about his amps once and for all.
> unless he is here I don`t want to discuss his product further. If you want to talk about mine, you are very welcome to do so.
> I hope I`ve been clear about that.
> I`d be more than happy to demonstrate how butler works with or without tubes in place when you up to it. with measurements and graphs.
> At this point I don`t think I compete with butler products. Firstly because I don`t offer hybrid amp and my preamp cost 1/3 or his. secondly because mine is real tube preamp with 20GB gain. and his tube section has no gain at all. Most importantly you can still use you favorite solid state amplifier with tandem with mine and in many cases it will cost you less money than butler or anything else hybrid for this matter.


i'll let him know. If he chooses to chime in, that would be great, since he is an audio engineering legend


----------



## Victor_inox

stickpony said:


> i'll let him know. If he chooses to chime in, that would be great, since he is an audio engineering legend


 
Do it! would be refreshing to hear from man.


----------



## stickpony

Victor_inox said:


> OK, Mr Butler says he received patents on unique way cheating customers into tube sound realm, good for him.
> Actually if you think about it switching into solid state stage with tubes removed would be a perfect way to defend "fake tube" topology he patented.
> why wouldn`t you ask Mr Butler join our discussion here and kill that myth about his amps once and for all.
> unless he is here I don`t want to discuss his product further. If you want to talk about mine, you are very welcome to do so.
> I hope I`ve been clear about that.
> I`d be more than happy to demonstrate how butler works with or without tubes in place when you up to it. with measurements and graphs.
> At this point I don`t think I compete with butler products. Firstly because I don`t offer hybrid amp and my preamp cost 1/3 or his. secondly because mine is real tube preamp with 20GB gain. and his tube section has no gain at all. Most importantly you can still use you favorite solid state amplifier with tandem with mine and in many cases it will cost you less money than butler or anything else hybrid for this matter.


Look Victor, no offense to you, but you can't talk badly about someone like BK Butler and then conveniently chose to "quit " the conversation because its not going the way you expected. Last time i check, this is America. I am not trying to hijack your thread here, i think these were relevant questions that have been raised, and you made some harsh accusations.

So i asked BK Butler if he ever thought of designing a separate Tube pre-amp for car audio applications, and this was his response:


"Yes I’ve done more than think about it… Designed tube line drivers in the past… They are OK, but preamps are very limited on what they can achieve.

Actually I’m heading over to Japan in a week to show something that it completely revolutionary… it goes between the output a solid state amp in the SPEAKER line and produces the REAL tube sound from ANY amp… THAT is the better way to go (see below). Will be demonstrating a stereo 300B tube based unit for some top dealers in Tokyo. They are absolute tube fanatics over there!

Sad this guy is bad mouthing what he does not know anything about. It’s really good NOT to repeat rumors especially if he’s probably just a basement tinkerer. Getting a patent is a rigorous process and it is assurance the my claims are exact and precise. 

Truly a tube preamp DOES NOT give the complete tube sound… just about 20% of the sound is in the front end.
80% or more is created in the POWER amp.

Almost anyone can stick a tube in a preamp (most so called engineers do that and think they’ve really achieved something)… alas, it’s kindergarten stuff.

Try reading my website: the white paper on Tubes vs Transistors. That is the definitive study about the tube sound and it’s what I’ve carefully followed all these years. Butler Audio: Tubes vs. Transistors

There’s a very good reason too why the music pros use my tube designs… These guys do NOT have to endorse anyone… but it’s all about producing the real tube sound. The pros know the tube sound and cannot be fooled!

In order to get the best tube sound there MUST be load interaction with the speakers on the power amp end…
The preamp guys are just scratching the surface, since the preamp is isolated from the speakers. 

I actually do like tube preamps too, but most of them are just too noisy and almost everything is quiet and digital these days, so I’ve elected to stick mainly with the 80% solution. 

Best!
BK"


So anyways, i hope BK chooses to join the thread. I don't know if he even has an account here in DIYMA or not though, we shall see.


----------



## Victor_inox

I was typing response and lost it, damn.
I did not badmouth butler amps, I purely stated a facts, his thermionic biasing is a ******** he patented. it`s not tube amplifier not preamplifier as tubes provide no gain in that application. I`ll be showing my **** on 2015 CES and rocky mountain audio fest.
butler located 20 miles from me he is welcome to visit my booth and listen to my designs.

His future designs sounds interesting, maybe he finally get off his ass and create something better than thermionic bias he calls blue driver.









What do I know I just have PHD in Physics and 30 years engineering experience. 
I won`t say anything else about Mr Butler despite the fact that he is badmouth me calling me a fool and such. 
Why wouldn`t you buy one of mine and compare it with butler you have? 
You can always return it if you don`t like it. 
any modern 100W /ch amp with my pre upfront sounds better then butler blue drive.
You have one- easy to compare. Unless you have vested interest in butler, you surely sounds like it.


----------



## Victor_inox

I hope everyone enjoyed free entertainment.
While I stand by what I say I will not longer discuss anyone else product in this thread but mine. 
It was unethical to talk in public forum without opponent present.
I apologies for that. Anyone is welcome to discuss anything in private though or start is own thread for comparison or whatever reasons.


----------



## cajunner

stink'em pink'em...


good on you Victor.

you recognize the value in a tube pre-amp, you implement your idea into a working design, and people like the way it sounds.


Butler is also guilty of all of those charges, but he maintains, (as do I) that power amp interaction via the speaker emf against transformer iron, flux modulation is more responsible for the "real tube sound" and that's fine too!


You have a product that alters the signal in an audible way and people find it makes euphonic effects, that's all you need.


Butler does the same, and now you've pitted your stake in tube circuit understanding against a known quantity in Butler, who is legendary in pro audio circles.


so, it's on...

IT'S ON!


----------



## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> stink'em pink'em...
> 
> 
> good on you Victor.
> 
> you recognize the value in a tube pre-amp, you implement your idea into a working design, and people like the way it sounds.
> 
> 
> Butler is also guilty of all of those charges, but he maintains, (as do I) that power amp interaction via the speaker emf against transformer iron, flux modulation is more responsible for the "real tube sound" and that's fine too!
> 
> 
> You have a product that alters the signal in an audible way and people find it makes euphonic effects, that's all you need.
> 
> 
> Butler does the same, and now you've pitted your stake in tube circuit understanding against a known quantity in Butler, who is legendary in pro audio circles.
> 
> 
> so, it's on...
> 
> IT'S ON!


 It`s on Alright, I`d love to see his new design he is taking to japan be available in states. My single ended 12 V is almost finished, I`d be happy to be competition to pro audio legend. Customers will have more choices , everyone wins.


----------



## Ryanu

At the end of the day... what satisfies ur ears matters. It's common to have disagreement... afterall we are all having the same goal...which is to enjoy good music. True? Btw vic... i cant wait! Lol... plan to use it at home instead... &#55357;&#56841;


----------



## cajunner

Victor_inox said:


> It`s on Alright, I`d love to see his new design he is taking to japan be available in states. My single ended 12 V is almost finished, I`d be happy to be competition to pro audio legend. Customers will have more choices , everyone wins.


good outlook.

even if his design wipes the floor with your real tube amp in creating that "real tube sound" you're in the game!

I have been waiting for some real, lower cost of entry power amp for about 30 years to hit 12V shelves.

You don't have to make 35W/ch either, I'm good with 12W/ch and 8 ohm bias, that's all I need!


and seriously, I remember when 12W RMS on an equalizer/booster, was a game changer when all you had were 4W/ch head units. I actually owned the high-power Alpine deck with the analog tuning bar, that's how far back I can go in comparing 12W output.


so, I don't know how much power you're packing into your tube amp, but if you can make a profit selling 12V tube amps that push 12W/ch RMS, for under 300 bones that would fit my idea of what it would take to fly...


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> At the end of the day... what satisfies ur ears matters. It's common to have disagreement... afterall we are all having the same goal...which is to enjoy good music. True? Btw vic... i cant wait! Lol... plan to use it at home instead... ��


 I use 2 at home and one at the office with active studio monitors. Nothing wrong with that. 
I will be developing home use only model after car audio models developed.
Probably with internal DAC. I made one for use with my Samsung tablet. Works great, Use dragonfly USB dac with micro usb cable- no drivers PNP.
Too bad it`s only 24 hours in day.


----------



## DBlevel

Ordered myself a 4 channel.................can't wait to try it out


----------



## Ryanu

Vic, just would like to check if I understand correctly on the 2 stage thingy. Ch1&2 input from [email protected] out to ch3&4 input... And then the [email protected] out to amplifier? Gain knob 1 & 2 adjust left & right respectively? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> Vic, just would like to check if I understand correctly on the 2 stage thingy. Ch1&2 input from [email protected] out to ch3&4 input... And then the [email protected] out to amplifier? Gain knob 1 & 2 adjust left & right respectively?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 that way you`ll get left pot adjusting stage 1 for both channels and right adding stage 2 to both as well. that way you`ll get more sound flexibility.
to use pots as left and right you`ll have to put source in ch 1 and 3. 1st pre out to 2pre in. 3rd pre out to 4pre in. outs 2 and 4 will be you left and right outs. left pot will adjust ch2 out right ch 4 out.
tube 1 will work as stage 1 and 2 for left tube 2 for right. is that makes better sense now?


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> that way you`ll get left pot adjusting stage 1 for both channels and right adding stage 2 to both as well. that way you`ll get more sound flexibility.
> to use pots as left and right you`ll have to put source in ch 1 and 3. 1st pre out to 2pre in. 3rd pre out to 4pre in. outs 2 and 4 will be you left and right outs. left pot will adjust ch2 out right ch 4 out.
> tube 1 will work as stage 1 and 2 for left tube 2 for right. is that makes better sense now?



Noted. It's clear now. Thanks Vic.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> Noted. It's clear now. Thanks Vic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Cool, report back please.


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> Cool, report back please.


items still stuck at customs. Damn bugger! I was asking just to do some preparation while waiting for the arrival. will review it as soon as I get it. Dont worry 

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> items still stuck at customs. Damn bugger! I was asking just to do some preparation while waiting for the arrival. will review it as soon as I get it. Dont worry
> 
> Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk


 Customs- nothing we can do to speed up that process.


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> Customs- nothing we can do to speed up that process.


no worries. As the old saying goes.. patience pays...

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk


----------



## Velozity

Victor_inox said:


> Here is some pics showing fully assembled units.
> you can order whatever led color you want to match your install.
> power plug and ac adapter included just like pictured.




Nice and compact. Good job. I can't wait to see the amp prototype.


----------



## tubeman

Victor_inox said:


> Thank you for your support!
> Funny you mentioned that. Buttler design is nothing in comparison with active pre stage. buttler tubes works in diode mode and can be completely eliminated, amp will still sound normally to most people. I`ve had one and after I realised that Buttler is in fact "fake" tube amp I decided to make my own.
> It`s imposible to a/b compare buttler with or without tubes in reasonable time frame as you`d have to desolder tubes from the board.
> What butler did for pro audio is nowhere close what he is doing with car amps. not sonically, nor electronically. He is selling his amps based on his past in pro audio, not real performance. If you were impressed by buttler amps you will be blown away by comparison.


Hi there,
Just to correct your mistakes:
1) In my current TBD seriies home and car amps, the tubes operate in thermionic mode. This technology is almost completely unknown to conventional tube designers. However, this eliminates most problems with tubes such as biasing issues and microphonics etc. My patents are freely accessible and I suggest you check them before you make further misstatements. 
2) I do wonder what you mean by 'fake'. The US Patent office does _*not *_issue patents for 'fake' technologies. Both my original circa 1990 and later circa 2000 tube amp patents would not have been issued if there was anything 'fake' about them... 
3) Good Sound is *Good Sound*! My background in pro audio just supports the fact that my amps perform as described. They sound like all tube amps and some claim better because the tubes actually DO create the sound!! There is truly no need to bad mouth a technology you do not understand. Tubes do NOT need to be in the amplification mode to create the tube sound!!! *Thermionics* is the pure essence of the tube sound no matter if it is understood or not... the original '*Edison Effect!'*
4) The most definitive study ever made on the Tube Sound is located here: Butler Audio: Tubes vs. Transistors
Basically it states that the main difference between tubes and solid state sound is 1) The harmonic distortion components as a tube enters it's overload region and 2) The interaction of tubes driving electro-mechanical devices such as cutting lathes (vinyl discs) or speakers... That's it.

So... if a tube preamp is running in a low distortion linear mode, it is very close in sound to solid state. The main and noticable differences in sound occur when the overload region is approached and/or a load -such as a speaker- is applied. This type of load affects damping, therefore dynamics and also affects how the overload region 'sounds'. Basically the conclusion from the above definitive study was that preamps are not the major source of the tube sound unless they are operated into their overload regions. BUT this overload region actually 'sounds' good if utilized properly!

Not all distortion is bad and thanks to tubes, we can enjoy the natural type distortion they produce. Power amps just happen to produce the most noticeable tube sound and that is what I've concentrated most on. I'd rate it about 80% of the tube sound. Power amps take a bit more ability and finesse to produce and design. A fundamental new tube amp technology that is patentable is no small fete. I do appreciate your criticism but unfortunately you are just not accurate.

The concepts for good tube sound are the same no matter which consumer genre you are in. Again... good sound is *good sound*. Period.

Btw, my original Tube Driver mobile amp DID have a *fail safe circuit* that took over when the class A cathode driver 6L6 tube in triode mode happened to fail. If you actually studied the patent, you would learn that it is in FACT not "fake" and works *perfectly*. The tube is completely operational in the normal mode but if it fails, it is bypassed and the sound continues in a (granted) degraded solid state manner... (From my pro music background, I followed the idea of the 'show must go on'). My commercial amps (MosValve etc.,) are known for NOT shutting down... (Ask ZZ Top about that rainstorm at Red Rocks... 

Anyway, some ppl spread the false information that the reason the sound continued without the tube in the bypass mode was because the tubes really didn't do anything... *Completely FALSE!! * It's almost laughable that I would waste my time and a LOT of money to design a tube amp that did not actually use the tube... and that somehow I hoodwinked the US Patent Office to commit fraud! *Absurd!! *

In the newer TDB series, there is no bypass mode and the sound stops if the tubes fail or if they are removed... To say otherwise is simply false and you should be corrected in this. _Why did you say this???_

Well, I've got to get back to the lab and I truly wish you all the best. I'm over 60 now and regrettably don't really have much time for forums... I do appreciate the interest in tubes and I continue to design almost every day. Even after hundreds of designs over a lifetime... still interesting and fun!

*Keep the tube products coming!! BEST OF LUCK TO YOU!!*

Kindest personal regards,
BK BUTLER

PS
Due to a problem with a supplier going out of business and not returning my custom extrusion case molds, the 2150 and other amps are low in supply. I apologize for this and am rectifying it as soon as possible. Unfortunately it is taking much longer than I ever anticipated!! Real businesses and production runs take a lot of planning and expense... I also may just redesign the entire line with my latest innovations...


----------



## Victor_inox

Mr Butler, it`s a honor to have you here, welcome.Thank you for expressing your point of view. I shoudn`t be talking about your product in this thread, it`s unprofessional and unethical. I won`t do it in open forum again.
I have my opinion and was sharing just that, opinion. 
Thank you for your blessing, I promise i won`t quit tube gear development Unless customers interest is not there, I have no means to keep up on my own dime and like you`ve said production runs take a lot. 
Car audio segment is almost nonexistent in USA specifically. hard business to spin up.
Targeting Asian market probably smarter move, I sold 75% of my tube stuff to Asia. 
Good luck with your Japanese endeavors, share your new stuff when you can. 
Sorry about your cases supplier,finding a right partner is hardest part of any business, good luck on that too!
Sincerely,
Victor.


----------



## tubeman

Victor_inox said:


> ataboy. horizontally not recommended, Vibration might kill the tube faster, 2-3 thousand hours. In theory, practically I think it`s BS,why you wouldn`t do it and see if road bumps kill the tube. I know i wouldn`t mount power tubes horizontally, I witnessed them die and they not as cheap as pre tubes.
> $150 without case, PCB with tube only, delivered. if you buy 3 I`ll drop further. fair?


Depends entirely on the physical construction of the tube. Some tubes can be mounted almost in any plane, but others such as 300B power tubes must be mounted either vertically or in the correct rotational position if horizontal is needed. The main reason is the geometry of their direct heated filaments. They can sag and short out if incorrectly rotated and mounted horizontally... 

There is no 'catch all' answer for this but most preamp tubes are safe either vertical or horizontal.

As far as vibration:
Of course severe vibration can cause problems but remember that most 'modern' tubes (1940 and later) were designed to be used in aircraft and many by the military. They are quite rugged and can take a lot of abuse. Again, the preamp tubes can take more than power tubes...

I personally do not recommend mounting tube car amps on large sub enclosures with a lot of low frequency power vibration going on, but have never experienced any issues with my own car amps that can be attributed to mounting location or position.
-BKB


----------



## Victor_inox

Now we have The Man spoken, if truly yours was not convincing enough.
I tested EL34 mounted horizontally and they died quickly mounted laterally.
300B even more sensitive. 
I have EL34 single ended for 12V application in development, Mounted on Vibro stand they died within hours. replacing power tubes every few hours no one can really afford (unless you ZZ top) I`ve heard that MIlberts fail rate rather high due to tube failure.
I don`t have that info on butlers and I never got any reports of failing 12ax7 in my preamps although they vertically mounted.


----------



## Victor_inox

Question, Mr Butler why are you decided to have tubes soldered down instead of socketing them in car amps of yours?


----------



## tubeman

Wow...
I was just writing to a customer and didn't realize my emails would be publicized...

When someone attacks my design with false statements I will defend my position.

Nothing personal was sent to you as you know and I didn't know my customer would be posting everything here  Peace, Brother!~! No personal attack was intended!

But I suggest you use ur PHD mind and research thermionic operation and then maybe you won't have so much bad to say about me... some very harsh words!

Take care and I think ur final advice is good... just don't mention others products especially when you do *NOT* know the truth...

And... remember... the real pros *CANNOT* be fooled. 

I do NOT make false claims.
BK Butler


----------



## tubeman

Hey, 
We need to be friends in this small niche...
The whole thing about the tubes not being utilized in my original car amp design started apparently with some 'PHD' engineer at PPI who really hated tube amps. I was an outside contractor and he resented my unconventional approach to things...

So he pulled the tubes in one of my 1500s and apparently 'proved' they didnt do anything in my circuit when actually the bypass circuit had immediately taken over and did it's job to keep the music goin'...

Anyway, I'm still amazed after all these years that that rumor keeps surfacing from time to time... 

*Here's a funny true story:*
During the Phaze Audio/PPI days, the engineers there 'invited' me to a shoot out with the Tube Driver against their F1 multi thousand watt gizmo SS amp... (150x2 vs thousands x 2) -sounds SOOOO fair, right? 

Their main issue was that tube amps sucked... So they did their big presentation and blew everyone's ears out.

My turn came and I just walked up to the front of the room and asked them to show me the demo CD they were using...

Guess what? *SHEFFIELD LABS* all over it!
Case closed! -We all know the SL uses virtually *ALL tube equipment *throughout their recording process... even direct to disc cutting lathes with TUBE drivers!! hahah

I didn't even demo my amp... Just bowed, pug down the CD and left the room with about a hundred jaws hitting the floor!

Anyway... let's be friends, OK?

I have nothing against a SINCERE and REAL engineer and regret that any negatives that happened here...

I do try to be professional but sometimes my ego does speak..haha -an eccentric guy i'm told...

BEST WISHES TRULY,
BK Butler


----------



## Victor_inox

I will state my opinion when it formed based on my academic background and personal experience. Starting Philosophical debate on what the truth is is not my intentions as well. You as inventor protect your point of view, I protect mine, of course you are pro audio legend and I`m nobody in that field but that going to change. 
After all I`m sure our combined goal is to make customers enjoy music at it's fullest and make some money doing so, yes?


----------



## Victor_inox

I love SHEFFIELD LABS CD story. Thank you friend!


----------



## cajunner

but who can push a pre-amp tube into 'good distortion' sound, and the design remain reliable, repeatable and consistent without too much owner maintenance...


is there a difference between Victor's pre-amp based on tube use, and the thermionic thing, in how each makes the tube sound?


Which makes the stronger "tube sound" and is either circuit adjustable for people who like just a little, or want a bunch of distortion added?


----------



## Victor_inox

You talking about overdriven tubes, not applicable to either design.
I`m not sure what stronger"tube sound" means I know mine use no semiconductors anywhere in signal path, therefore it`s all tubes.


----------



## stickpony

Victor_inox said:


> You talking about overdriven tubes, not applicable to either design.
> I`m not sure what stronger"tube sound" means I know mine use no semiconductors anywhere in signal path, therefore it`s all tubes.


in other words, which one sounds most like a Marshall half-stack with some JCM-900's attached to it

J/K


----------



## Victor_inox

stickpony said:


> in other words, which one sounds most like a Marshall half-stack with some JCM-900's attached to it
> 
> J/K


Marshall half-stack with some JCM-900's


----------



## tubeman

Victor_inox said:


> You talking about overdriven tubes, not applicable to either design.
> I`m not sure what stronger"tube sound" means I know mine use no semiconductors anywhere in signal path, therefore it`s all tubes.


The performance of the preamp is basically up to the skill set of the designer. Overdriving preamp tubes properly is not necessarily something that damages them... one of the 2 main ideas that Mr. Hamm concluded with in his Tubes vs. Solid State white paper was that the 'tube sound' is essentially caused when the tubes *entered* their overload region. 

There are things almost magical about that elusive region that that most designers seemingly have no idea about. It's been part of my life's work to discover how to control, utilize and manage this 'pleasing' distortion 'thang'. 

Most preamp /amp designers strive for the lowest distortion they can get and take great pride in low THD numbers. However, the real world is FULL of natural distortions... echos, distance, elevations, weather condition and random objects cause all kinds of 'distortions' in what we hear. Tubes create mainly even order harmonics in mild overdrive and this sounds GOOD to the ears. Like adding an octave pipe (church pipe organ). 

Guitarists use it much more of course to produce their 'violin tone' such as Eric Johnson or David Gilmour when they use my guitar Tube Driver pedal. But it's really ironic that the same basic distortion in much milder forms sounds good in music reproduction also. Of course, it cannot be drastic, but just 'enough'. This esoteric tube designing is very much an art form.

Most conventional and tradition 'all tube' designs (-most gleaned from the revered RCA Manual or 'Bible') create some amount of this natural tube distortion but many designers use a lot of negative feedback and other techniques to bring the THD number down. I'm not a big fan of negative f/b and my TDB amps have *no global feedback* from the output.

There is something else almost comical  about the * religious zealot fervor* that many engineers posses about 'all tube' vs 'hybrid' designs that is LOL amusing to me... *Whoever made some GIANT RULE that certain components are OK to use with 'all tube' designs and others are not?* WTF? *In reality there is NO SUCH THING as an ALL TUBE design!* They ALL have other components in them! But must we be limited to 1930 passives; resistors, capacitors, chokes, transformers (usually quite horrid) and such?... hmmm?

Why must tube designs be limited to ONLY using this mundane, archaic and closed set of components totally eludes me! YES, if we were still living in the '30s we'd have no choice. But we are *NOT* and there are WONDERFUL devices we can use nowadays to improve amplifiers and preamps in conjunction with great natural tube qualities. It takes a bit of novel thinking and a lot of lab time to find out how to integrate something new however. 

*Why not take all the best components we can find and support the 'Tube Sound' and even IMPROVE it? Bring the 'Tube Sound' it into the 21st century! *

The essentials of what _*really*_ creates the tube sound are still obviously elusive to most engineers and I'm not saying I know everything about it but I do know quite a bit after 40 + years of PRACTICAL designing. There is absolutely *NO REASON * in my book not to use any kind of component in conjunction with tubes *IF* it really does improve the sound... 

I say *USE WHATEVER WORKS BEST!!! *


Take care,
BK


----------



## stickpony

tubeman said:


> *Why not take all the best components we can find and support the 'Tube Sound' and even IMPROVE it? Bring the 'Tube Sound' it into the 21st century! *
> 
> The essentials of what _*really*_ creates the tube sound are still obviously elusive to most engineers and I'm not saying I know everything about it but I do know quite a bit after 40 + years of PRACTICAL designing. There is absolutely *NO REASON * in my book not to use any kind of component in conjunction with tubes *IF* it really does improve the sound...
> 
> I say *USE WHATEVER WORKS BEST!!! *
> 
> 
> Take care,
> BK


Imagination is the mother of invention. can't wait to hear some of your new technology that you are demonstrating over in Japan.


----------



## Precisionmike

Hello Mr Butler! Great to have you present on the forum. I realize you are not here to talk ill of other brands, but do you feel your amplifiers wound better than a Milbert? Which, if I understand correctly, claims to be a "full tube" design?


----------



## Victor_inox

Wholeheartedly agree that hybrid designs make more sense for mobile environment. properly designed tude section with solid state amplification practically eliminates need for all tube designs. Milbert the only one who offer all tube car amp currently. 
There is always purists who want all this or all that, and no reasoning can move then from that position, not even auditioning. 
It`s like multi thousand dollars cables. No one can hear the difference, no measurements shows but creator will protect that nonsense at all cost. 
Hybrid amps not created equal, I owned most of them, butlers, USAMPS, Planet audio, Ground zero reference 2T.

IF I had to chose which one`s sound I like the best that will be GZR2T, not without shortcomings but sounding wonderfully. Soft but precise and powerful.


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## Velozity

Wow this thread was headed down the wrong road fast and then made a complete 180 with Victor and BK Butler coming to a mutual respect for each other and the technology. Kudos to both for not making it really ugly (and welcome Mr. Butler, I hope you can contribute more often).


----------



## mmiller

Theres going to be a new sherif in town producing some very nice tube amps. Hopefully they'll be in full production sooner than later.


----------



## tubeman

You know, I really like Milberts and think they sound fine. I did have a big shoot out in Thailand (many tube fanatics there) with several of their big car magazine people a few years ago. We A/B'd my 2150 with the Milbert. Nobody could really fault either amp. Both sounded fine. They were practically indistinguishable up to the power limit of the M. But after the about 30W/channel, the Tube Driver just smoked it power and dynamics-wise. 

If you don't need a lot of power and can afford the Milbert, I really think it's fine. Personally I like the tube sound with a bit more push...

Best,
BK


----------



## Victor_inox

That`s a problem right there, everyone wants a lot of power and have that sweetness of tubes. Hybrid amps is not inexpensive either. they cheap in comparison with milbert but few times more expensive vs. solid state with comparable power.
Or you can get preamp for a couple hundreds and use any power amp you want with it.


----------



## stickpony

BK, i hope you will give this forum the first exclusive report on your trip to japan to demo your new technology, when you get back. I look forward to hearing about it.


----------



## Victor_inox

stickpony said:


> BK, i hope you will give this forum the first exclusive report on your trip to japan to demo your new technology, when you get back. I look forward to hearing about it.


I second this motion but preferably in separate thread.


----------



## Ryanu

Greetings from Malaysia. Received these babies today. Will do a review as soon as possible Vic. Thanks a lot!


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## Victor_inox

You enjoy your new toy, standing by for review.

BTW, ac power supply included with every unit for in home use.


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## DBlevel

Got mine today as well. Looking at next week before I'll have time to install it tho.


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> You enjoy your new toy, standing by for review.
> 
> BTW, ac power supply included with every unit for in home use.


Hi all, here is my simple review on vic's preamp. 
http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=164914

Well... one word. Splendid! Exceeded my expectations. Just love the sound reproduced by this preamp. Thanks a lot Victor


----------



## Victor_inox

Thanks Ryanu, enjoy.


----------



## Ryanu

Ryanu said:


> Hi all, here is my simple review on vic's preamp.
> Victory Sonic VK-TP4 MK1 Tube Preamp - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum
> 
> Well... one word. Splendid! Exceeded my expectations. Just love the sound reproduced by this preamp. Thanks a lot Victor


Here's a sample video. Quality might not be the best, but this is the best that I could get. 

Victory Sonics Tube Preamp - VK-TP4 mk1 Sample Video - YouTube


----------



## Victor_inox

One of my favorite dead artists playing... nice!


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## Victor_inox

bump it up!


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## Old Skewl

Victor, your always tempting me with the tube goodness. I don't know how I missed this thread the last 2 months. Very nice design for us budget minded DIYers. I'll be in touch after summer vacation to try one of these babies out. Shoulda never got rid of that Cacoon!  

Intrigued by integrating the pure i20 into the mix.


----------



## Ryanu

Hi guys, found a good reading on 12AX7 tube. If that is beneficial to you at all. Anyhow, just would like to share. 
http://www.worldtubecompany.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=TF-2


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox

Old Skewl said:


> Victor, your always tempting me with the tube goodness. I don't know how I missed this thread the last 2 months. Very nice design for us budget minded DIYers. I'll be in touch after summer vacation to try one of these babies out. Shoulda never got rid of that Cacoon!
> 
> Intrigued by integrating the pure i20 into the mix.


i keep telling myself same thing about Cocoon. 
Roth audio did great job with that thing, too bad their current line is nothing to write home about. 
I`m working on integrating DAC into preamp. Not Apple specific but I don`t see any problems with apple specific as well.


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> Hi guys, found a good reading on 12AX7 tube. If that is beneficial to you at all. Anyhow, just would like to share.
> http://www.worldtubecompany.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=TF-2
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Thanks for sharing, most of it I agree with.


----------



## splaudiohz

Victor -

My buddy use a tricked out Panny modified by Matt Roberts, he already has the holy grail Tube 396A in it. he runs 2 channels back to his DSP, so would this do anything for him?


----------



## Victor_inox

splaudiohz said:


> Victor -
> 
> My buddy use a tricked out Panny modified by Matt Roberts, he already has the holy grail Tube 396A in it. he runs 2 channels back to his DSP, so would this do anything for him?


It will do what it suppose to do regardless of the source ,it will amplify signal 20DB and inject low order odd harmonics into signal. btw 396A is not a holy grail of the tubes. It`s equivalent of 5670 tube or2C51 or chinese 6n3. Pre 1970 sounds the best, anything after that is OK but nothing to write home about with exception of GE Jan series. All of them is highly microphonic so I avoid them. How much it will change his bottle head signal I don`t know. I don`t have bottle head to try.
I`d definitely try that and see.


----------



## splaudiohz

Ok let me talk to him, I know he has a 1950's 396AJW and it sounded awesome... and he has been testing a another that has triple, r/t double, micas


----------



## Victor_inox

splaudiohz said:


> Ok let me talk to him, I know he has a 1950's 396AJW and it sounded awesome...


50th is cool. best tubes made in 50th. I`d love to hear that bottlehead.


----------



## Victor_inox

Little teaser, works with android tablets/phones 4.2.1 and higher.


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> Little teaser, works with android tablets/phones 4.2.1 and higher.


Looks good Vic. Send me one.. I volunteered myself to test it for u... ???


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> Looks good Vic. Send me one.. I volunteered myself to test it for u... ???


I might do just that but it`s not production ready just yet.


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> I might do just that but it`s not production ready just yet.


Sweeeet! :surprised::surprised:


----------



## james2266

PM sent Victor


----------



## neal00

"Little teaser, works with android tablets/phones 4.2.1 and higher."

USB tube DAC pre amp?


----------



## Victor_inox

neal00 said:


> "Little teaser, works with android tablets/phones 4.2.1 and higher."
> 
> USB tube DAC pre amp?


yes.


----------



## mmiller

WWll through Cold War era are typically the most desirable tubes, aren't they Victor? I may consider getting one for one of the home systems. I don't think they'd last very long in the cold winter months up here.


----------



## Victor_inox

mmiller said:


> WWll through Cold War era are typically the most desirable tubes, aren't they Victor? I may consider getting one for one of the home systems. I don't think they'd last very long in the cold winter months up here.


 Depends on desire. definitely pre 70th. pre 70 military supply scarce but available. I compared EH tubes I use with many of most desirable 12XX7 tubes ever made, EH is not bad at all, and it only cost $15. great tube for the money. 
Cold winter will do nothing to it, it might need few more seconds for tubes to preheat though. So sound will fade in in 30 seconds instead of 20. I use this pre with every stereo in my house. in dual stage mode. that would be 4 locations. 
Funny thing is it seems many customers use it in home setup while saving for another one for car. I include ac adapter with every preamp I sell now.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

neal00 said:


> "Little teaser, works with android tablets/phones 4.2.1 and higher."
> 
> USB tube DAC pre amp?



Very nice Idea.. This opens up a few more options..

Victor, send me your address again to ship out your components-


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> Depends on desire. definitely pre 70th. pre 70 military supply scarce but available. I compared EH tubes I use with many of most desirable 12XX7 tubes ever made, EH is not bad at all, and it only cost $15. great tube for the money.
> Cold winter will do nothing to it, it might need few more seconds for tubes to preheat though. So sound will fade in in 30 seconds instead of 20. I use this pre with every stereo in my house. in dual stage mode. that would be 4 locations.
> Funny thing is it seems many customers use it in home setup while saving for another one for car. I include ac adapter with every preamp I sell now.


Talking about installing it in the car. I might be doing it once i have the time. When it happens, I will write a simple review again


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> Very nice Idea.. This opens up a few more options..
> 
> Victor, send me your address again to ship out your components-


 what options that would be? Just emailed you address.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

I meant personal options, like something I might use to listen to tunes at work. Looks small enough to put up in my tool box each day so it doesnt come up missing in the shop.


----------



## Victor_inox

deeppinkdiver said:


> I meant personal options, like something I might use to listen to tunes at work. Looks small enough to put up in my tool box each day so it doesnt come up missing in the shop.


gotcha, It slightly bigger than 2ch mini,can`t give you exact size until everything finalized.


----------



## Ryanu

Guys, need a favor. For those who have already installed the pre in your car. Mind sharing where did you locate ur pre? Just would like to get some reference. Thanks a lot!


----------



## Victor_inox

What car? so far amp racks is where I heard they installed, I didn`t see a picture of it though. Usually it`s SQ oriented folks with active setups and multiple amps.


----------



## Victor_inox

weekend bump, need so sell some more to move on on another development. 
weekend orders will have some surprise freebie with every order.


----------



## BowDown

Can u make one with digital out? 

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


----------



## BowDown

Aes or optical is preferred. 

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ryanu

I could be placing it underseat.. hehe.. just would like to get other ideas... hehe.. freebies...?


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> I could be placing it underseat.. hehe.. just would like to get other ideas... hehe.. freebies...?


 Almost forgot, repeat customers also get price discount.


----------



## Victor_inox

BowDown said:


> Can u make one with digital out?
> 
> Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


Sure for a couple hours of extra labor cost, or you can buy one like this Analog L R to Digital SPDIF Coaxial Coax RCA Optical Toslink Audio Converter | eBay


----------



## Victor_inox

BowDown said:


> Aes or optical is preferred.
> 
> Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


I`m testing that tomorrow.


----------



## Victor_inox

Finished 8 channels version by personal request, I think it turned out lovely.
Basically 2 4ch units screwed together, very sturdy. about 17" long other dimensions the same. I decided to leave 2 power hook ups just in case it will be separated in future.


----------



## Victor_inox

Victor_inox said:


> I`m testing that tomorrow.


 Parts not delivered, waiting on parts.


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> Finished 8 channels version by personal request, I think it turned out lovely.
> Basically 2 4ch units screwed together, very sturdy. about 17" long other dimensions the same. I decided to leave 2 power hook ups just in case it will be separated in future.


Wow... that is one big preamp..


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> Wow... that is one big preamp..


Ask and you shall receive.


----------



## Victor_inox

Victor_inox said:


> Parts not delivered, waiting on parts.


 Cirrus Logic 8427 chip does wonderful job as Analog to digital converter in preamp
preserving all that tube sound to optical and AES coax outs simultaneously.
Right now offered as upgrade option for $70.


----------



## Ryanu

Victor_inox said:


> Cirrus Logic 8427 chip does wonderful job as Analog to digital converter in preamp
> preserving all that tube sound to optical and AES coax outs simultaneously.
> Right now offered as upgrade option for $70.


How does this dac looks like vic?


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> How does this dac looks like vic?


It's analog to digital ADC to get sound out of the pre not DAC. it's inside, no separate device to mount. top part of the case will have 2 connectors toslink and coax. that's it. if you need digital input I can do that as well, that part is easy. 
For now it will be a daughter board- no way to implement it on current production PCB and I think it's better to have it separated.


----------



## Ryanu

Bump for u bro...


----------



## Victor_inox

Ryanu said:


> Bump for u bro...


Thanks man! Single ended tube power amp is about to be released, couple minor issues to be addressed first.


----------



## Victor_inox

Victor_inox said:


> Finished 8 channels version by personal request, I think it turned out lovely.
> Basically 2 4ch units screwed together, very sturdy. about 17" long other dimensions the same. I decided to leave 2 power hook ups just in case it will be separated in future.


 Just wondering where is all these people who begged to get 8ch done?
It's done, let's put some orders in, shall we?


----------



## LumbermanSVO

FYI, I'm the guy ordering the custom 8ch unit from you by email. I'll post pics when I have it.


----------



## Victor_inox

LumbermanSVO said:


> FYI, I'm the guy ordering the custom 8ch unit from you by email. I'll post pics when I have it.


There was a dozens of others I don`t hear from anymore. From now on 8ch will be on custom order. 
Lumberman`s 8ch will have very special combined volume control like no others since he use ipod as HU and needed to have volume between ipod and DSP.


----------



## LumbermanSVO

Yes, im very excited about this pre-amp! Here is how my setup will work:

iOS device ---> Pure i-20 dock (digital out)---> PPI DEQ.8 ---> tub pre-amp/volume control ---> amps

I have the iOS device, DEQ.8, a handful of amps and the speakers. I REALLY want one of Victors tube power amps for my horns too, and if the next few weeks go as planned then I'll be able to buy one.

Amp ---> Image Dynamics Mylar CD2 Comps on full size bodies
JL 300/4v1 ---> IDQ 8's
Zapco ST-1500XM ---> (2) ID Max12 v.3

It's all going in an '86 soft top full size Bronco


----------



## Victor_inox

Single ended power tube one in final development stage, some power supply issues and case left. it will be priced at half of closest competitor or slightly less. If you can call push pull design a competitor. It Has same power output if you can call 12-15 W a power It pushes my 8Ohm klipsch heresy to unlistenable levels, as horn amplifier it will work great. Or widebanders like new dayton neo point source drivers. 
There is not much more i can say about it now.


----------



## Victor_inox

Found nice power strip for future production , will have remote wirewith relay and fused


----------



## LumbermanSVO

Victor_inox said:


> Single ended power tube one in final development stage, some power supply issues and case left. it will be priced at half of closest competitor or slightly less. If you can call push pull design a competitor. It Has same power output if you can call 12-15 W a power It pushes my 8Ohm klipsch heresy to unlistenable levels, as horn amplifier it will work great. Or widebanders like new dayton neo point source drivers.
> There is not much more i can say about it now.


As you might know, us horn guys can be a goofy bunch. 10+ years ago when I bought the horns it was still fairly easy to find a low power amp for them, these days it's hard to find a simple 50x2, forget about anything smaller. That's one of the reasons I'm excited about your tube amp, the idea of a properly sized amp is great. The fact that it's simple, unique and will sound great is even better!


----------



## Victor_inox

LumbermanSVO said:


> As you might know, us horn guys can be a goofy bunch. 10+ years ago when I bought the horns it was still fairly easy to find a low power amp for them, these days it's hard to find a simple 50x2, forget about anything smaller. That's one of the reasons I'm excited about your tube amp, the idea of a properly sized amp is great. The fact that it's simple, unique and will sound great is even better!


 It`s not milbert with their 30W/ch but milbert push pull therefore not really comparable. and it will be way cheaper then MIlbert I`m in process of buying horns myself to setup proper demo board for it. what is the most common horns impedance? I have JBL pro audio horns but they are 8Ohm.


----------



## LumbermanSVO

Everything that I've worked with in cars has been 8 Ohm.


----------



## Victor_inox

LumbermanSVO said:


> Everything that I've worked with in cars has been 8 Ohm.


Understandable, all of them use pro audio drivers. 
now I`d have to find dual secondaries output transformers or make separate 4 and 8 Ohm versions.


----------



## Victor_inox

Bump, who else need tube sound in their cars?


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> Bump, who else need tube sound in their cars?


I still do but it is my own laziness issues here. Well, and damned work I guess. :blush:


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> I still do but it is my own laziness issues here. Well, and damned work I guess. :blush:


aren`t you got one already?


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> aren`t you got one already?


lol - I have 2. One 4 channel and one 2 channel. Both are still in my bonus room home theatre currently. I just have had no time to install the 2 channel in the vehicle yet. I really need to make the time. It'll happen in September for sure as that is my next stretch off and there is nothing scheduled for that time outside of car audio stuff. Got lots in the plans for that week. Sure hope the weather and the funds hold out.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> lol - I have 2. One 4 channel and one 2 channel. Both are still in my bonus room home theatre currently. I just have had no time to install the 2 channel in the vehicle yet. I really need to make the time. It'll happen in September for sure as that is my next stretch off and there is nothing scheduled for that time outside of car audio stuff. Got lots in the plans for that week. Sure hope the weather and the funds hold out.


THat`s what I thought,
Your next purchase will be discounted, customer loyalty discount 25%


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> THat`s what I thought,
> Your next purchase will be discounted, customer loyalty discount 25%


 You selling Stereo Integrity subs now?:laugh:

I will definitely keep it in mind for the next time I find one of your creations alluring.


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> You selling Stereo Integrity subs now?:laugh:


sorry but no.
probably never will do speakers, development cost is too high unless rebadging chinese crap, and that I will never do. 
THere is too many companies doing just that.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> sorry but no.
> probably never will do speakers, development cost is too high unless rebadging chinese crap, and that I will never do.
> THere is too many companies doing just that.


Agree 100%. Stick with what you are obviously good at. 

As if anyone wouldn't know and anyone is wondering; Victor is a super guy and noone should hesitate in purchasing. He will take care of you now and for the future too.


----------



## Ryanu

james2266 said:


> Agree 100%. Stick with what you are obviously good at.
> 
> As if anyone wouldn't know and anyone is wondering; Victor is a super guy and noone should hesitate in purchasing. He will take care of you now and for the future too.


Agreed. +1


----------



## legend94

He sure has been accomadating with all of my quirky ideas. Always very responsive as well.


----------



## Victor_inox

legend94 said:


> He sure has been accommodating with all of my quirky ideas. Always very responsive as well.


Your preamps on the way, don't forget to post a review once you ready.


----------



## Victor_inox

I have very few left,starting with next bunch pres will be serialized and price changed. get your orders in.


----------



## deltasaurus

Do you have any of the 4 ch still available? After reading this beginning to end I am trying to clear up the funds to get one this week. I am also pretty sure that in the next month or so I will get you to do a custom 8ch preamp. Will PM to discuss the details when that is closer to happening. Also think I will be a player in the amplifier market as well, either full tube or hybrid tube/solid state models. Use them at home with horns and could see doing a similar combination in a vehicle in the near future. Thank you and keep up the awesome work.

Also IBTundra (hope I remembered that correctly), would you be open to building a housing similar to or exactly like the one you built recently? And possibly drawing up a design for a case to house 2 of the 4ch units? Thank you also!


----------



## Victor_inox

Yep, 4ch available, You can PM me of [email protected]


----------



## trunks333

any sales anytime soon?


----------



## Victor_inox

trunks333 said:


> any sales anytime soon?


 right now you can get weekend10% discount and free priority shipping.
20% for returning customers. 

price structure is about to be changed,once I run out of units on hand.


----------



## deltasaurus

Victor, I most definitely plan on ordering at least one 4 channel model, and will most likely contact you for something a little different. Only hang up is I just had to dump a significant sum of money into a new roof and siding on the house so I am 2 to 3 weeks away from being able to free up the capital. I assure you, as soon as it's there you will be getting a PM and most likely an email as well. I am really looking forward to the pending amplifier as well. Thank you for providing us "tube guys" an alternative to the products that are currently available to us. Hopefully Victory Sonics will become as well know, if not more widely known, as these current offerings.


----------



## Victor_inox

deltasaurus said:


> Victor, I most definitely plan on ordering at least one 4 channel model, and will most likely contact you for something a little different. Only hang up is I just had to dump a significant sum of money into a new roof and siding on the house so I am 2 to 3 weeks away from being able to free up the capital. I assure you, as soon as it's there you will be getting a PM and most likely an email as well. I am really looking forward to the pending amplifier as well. Thank you for providing us "tube guys" an alternative to the products that are currently available to us. Hopefully Victory Sonics will become as well know, if not more widely known, as these current offerings.


 whenever you ready. I will not run out.


----------



## cmac06

LumbermanSVO said:


> Yes, im very excited about this pre-amp! Here is how my setup will work:
> 
> iOS device ---> Pure i-20 dock (digital out)---> PPI DEQ.8 ---> tub pre-amp/volume control ---> amps
> 
> I have the iOS device, DEQ.8, a handful of amps and the speakers. I REALLY want one of Victors tube power amps for my horns too, and if the next few weeks go as planned then I'll be able to buy one.
> 
> Amp ---> Image Dynamics Mylar CD2 Comps on full size bodies
> JL 300/4v1 ---> IDQ 8's
> Zapco ST-1500XM ---> (2) ID Max12 v.3
> 
> It's all going in an '86 soft top full size Bronco


Your setup is strangely similar to mine. I'll be following you closely. I wish I would've gotten the 8 ch, but I am only running front active stage and subs, so 6 ch. will do it. 

I got my 4 ch and this thing looks great. Build quality is just like all have posted. Victor, I'll be getting a couple more when I can get the rest of my install ironed out. I'd also like to add some of these to the other vehicle also.


----------



## james2266

Finally got around to putting the 2 channel mini into the car today. Got her all back together and sat in for a listen and it sounded good until the song came to an end. I am getting a nasty hiss coming through now that was not there before. I am thinking it is the ordinary set of rca I had lying around the house. No issues inside the house with the rca and the mini hooked to my home theatre however. I'll have to look into this further and maybe talk to my dealer here and see what he thinks. That will be a last resort as he kind of left a sour taste in my mouth the last time I was in there and he is a pain in the ass to get to not being open on Sat. any longer.

Anyways, has anyone experienced any noise issues with any of these preamps in a vehicle? Maybe something else I should check out. I dont see anything that I can adjust on the pre itself for ground loops or such.


----------



## Victor_inox

measure voltage between pre ground and HU ground if there any you have yourself a ground loop.
reground pre to the same point as HU if possible, if not get GL isolator.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> measure voltage between pre ground and HU ground if there any you have yourself a ground loop.
> reground pre to the same point as HU if possible, if not get GL isolator.


I am using the same ground that my processor is using so I tend to think it is not a ground loop. I really think that rca might be the culprit. We'll see. I will have to ask the installer that set up the power/ground for the processor some questions too. Maybe just tapping into the remote and ground wires for the processor could be causing this somehow although I don't really understand how. The remote is supplied by a 30 amp relay as I mentioned before if anyone thinks that is the issue. Thanks for the suggestion Victor.


----------



## Victor_inox

relay controls positive feed only. HU chassis probably grounded, measure voltage between chassis and rca shield connected to preamp only powered up.
bad RCA shield or RCA cable itself will create ground loop, noise you having is a voltage between different components grounds , unless alternator whine. Preamp just doing it`s job amplifying it 20 DB.


----------



## IbizaOnAcid

Hey Vic I was wondering if you could tell me how the mounting feet on the 4 channel pre are situated? I can't tell from the photos. I mean as far as I know the thing measures 5.75" X 7.75" but then do the mounting feet stick out beyond that or ?
The reason I ask is I am expecting my 4ch in the mail tomorrow or Sat. [] and I am working on setting up a spot for it in my trunk and as almost always is the case real estate is at a premium! Any info would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## james2266

IbizaOnAcid said:


> Hey Vic I was wondering if you could tell me how the mounting feet on the 4 channel pre are situated? I can't tell from the photos. I mean as far as I know the thing measures 5.75" X 7.75" but then do the mounting feet stick out beyond that or ?
> The reason I ask is I am expecting my 4ch in the mail tomorrow or Sat. [] and I am working on setting up a spot for it in my trunk and as almost always is the case real estate is at a premium! Any info would be greatly appreciated.


I just took a close look at my 4 channel and it has no mounting feet at all actually. I don't know if Vic has changed that on the newer mailings or not. Mine actually has rubber feet under it assuming more of a home use setting. That is where mine is located currently as it was too tall to fit where I needed it to go in the car. The 2 channel I bought later does have mounting tabs on the side and they don't protrude out much at all. The 4 channel looks like you could remove the rubber feet and add your own mounting setup which although a bit of a pain (in my eyes) does allow you to use any mounting setup you desire.


----------



## Victor_inox

IbizaOnAcid said:


> Hey Vic I was wondering if you could tell me how the mounting feet on the 4 channel pre are situated? I can't tell from the photos. I mean as far as I know the thing measures 5.75" X 7.75" but then do the mounting feet stick out beyond that or ?
> The reason I ask is I am expecting my 4ch in the mail tomorrow or Sat. [] and I am working on setting up a spot for it in my trunk and as almost always is the case real estate is at a premium! Any info would be greatly appreciated.


I shipped yours with mounting feets, they connected by side covers screws, you can take them out in a moment if you want. kinda like 2ch units but on short sides. they protrude about 1/2" on each side.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> I shipped yours with mounting feets, they connected by side covers screws, you can take them out in a moment if you want. kinda like 2ch units but on short sides. they protrude about 1/2" on each side.


Hey Vic, any chance of getting a set for mine. I might find a way to get it in the car once I get around to rebuilding the amp rack area. On my experimentation with the 2 channel so far, I think I want to try the 4 channel on the midrange and tweets after the processor. Honestly, don't really care for the sound in the lower octaves but love the midrange and high end from the tube. Now if I can only kill the damned hiss. Honestly, haven't had much time to combat it however. I am using the Rux for volume now tho and it seems to keep the hiss down immensely which makes me think putting it after the processor might just keep it dead silent. I have a few more ideas. 

Have you ever thought of combining 2 2 channel mini's into one low profile chassis? I would much prefer such a model over my current 4 channel due to space/height issues. No more money for this right now tho so will have to make due with what I have currently. Hell, just need get the time, energy and weather to line up so I can get some of the things sitting here 'installed/finished'. Getting to be the crappy time of year for weather here unfortunately.


----------



## IbizaOnAcid

Thanks Victor that's exactly what I needed to know. Cheers!


----------



## Victor_inox

james2266 said:


> Hey Vic, any chance of getting a set for mine. I might find a way to get it in the car once I get around to rebuilding the amp rack area. On my experimentation with the 2 channel so far, I think I want to try the 4 channel on the midrange and tweets after the processor. Honestly, don't really care for the sound in the lower octaves but love the midrange and high end from the tube. Now if I can only kill the damned hiss. Honestly, haven't had much time to combat it however. I am using the Rux for volume now tho and it seems to keep the hiss down immensely which makes me think putting it after the processor might just keep it dead silent. I have a few more ideas.
> 
> Have you ever thought of combining 2 2 channel mini's into one low profile chassis? I would much prefer such a model over my current 4 channel due to space/height issues. No more money for this right now tho so will have to make due with what I have currently. Hell, just need get the time, energy and weather to line up so I can get some of the things sitting here 'installed/finished'. Getting to be the crappy time of year for weather here unfortunately.


I used these for mounting feet, see if you can get them in Canada.
2 low profiles combined shouldn`t be a problem, look at 8ch version I posted around page 28-29 of this thread, same thing only with 4ch versions. I can make you one with significant discount as returning 3 times customer. 
I`m sorry if I misunderstood but your post implies that preamp itself introduced noise in your system. that is no true, it amplified noise you already had there or ground loop created in process. 
follow up on ground loop isolation as advised before or put it after DSP, I think Ryanu did exactly that.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> I used these for mounting feet, see if you can get them in Canada.
> 2 low profiles combined shouldn`t be a problem, look at 8ch version I posted around page 28-29 of this thread, same thing only with 4ch versions. I can make you one with significant discount as returning 3 times customer.
> I`m sorry if I misunderstood but your post implies that preamp itself introduced noise in your system. that is no true, it amplified noise you already had there or ground loop created in process.
> follow up on ground loop isolation as advised before or put it after DSP, I think Ryanu did exactly that.


I'll check that out. As for the noise, I want everyone to know that the unit is NOT causing the noise here. It is most definitely amplifying some inherent noise from somewhere. I know this because it made zero noise in the house and it passed my one experiment I have tried to date. By using the RUX for volume, the noise disappears until I turn it up to about -15 db or so. I believe I will be going with the 2nd option and putting the unit after the processor. Likely going to try out just the midrange channels and see if the 'tubeness' is still fully there and also bring back my bass impact.


----------



## Victor_inox

bump ttt


----------



## Victor_inox

Here is the video of pre with digital outs as well as analogs.



 This is first unit with this option sold.
Questions, just ask.


----------



## Victor_inox

THursday bump.


----------



## SilkySlim

What custom options are there?


----------



## Victor_inox

SilkySlim said:


> What custom options are there?


 Gold plated Tiffany style RCAs , case mounted. remote relay power option, multiple channels, upgraded components/tubes(signature edition.)
digital outs in toslink and coax. Just about anything you could think of and technically feasible.


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> Gold plated Tiffany style RCAs , case mounted. remote relay power option, multiple channels, upgraded components/tubes(signature edition.)
> digital outs in toslink and coax. Just about anything you could think of and technically feasible.


By chance, can my little 2 channel be outfitted with some of these options if I send it back to you? Really like the idea of toslink out and a remote relay power option (I assume you mean remote power on like in all amps). Actually do you have toslink in and out available? Would be cool to have that and still keep rca in and out functionality for future-proofing. I'm curious only right now as our financial situation took a turn for the worse last week but I'm sure that won't last long


----------



## Victor_inox

James, your best bet would be to sell yours and order new one with options you want, there is no way to fit dac-adc to that tiny case, I use slightly bigger case unless you OK with external dac/adc. I have that option too. remote start by itself can be fitted in existing case but IMHO absolutely useless feature for preamp consuming 0.7A, 
but it`s your money you pay I`ll do it. 
PM me exactly what you want and I`ll give you a quote.


----------



## Victor_inox

bump.


----------



## Victor_inox

Victor_inox said:


> Gold plated Tiffany style RCAs , case mounted. remote relay power option, multiple channels, upgraded components/tubes(signature edition.)
> digital outs in toslink and coax. Just about anything you could think of and technically feasible.


I`m sure I forgot a thing or two.


----------



## Victor_inox

Veterans day sale 25% off $150 for 2 ch $187.50 for 4 ch. I have 10 units available (while supplies last) Sale ends Wednesday at midnight.


----------



## Victor_inox

15 more hours of biggest sale I`ve had so far. just a few left at that price.


----------



## Victor_inox

bump ttt


----------



## splaudiohz

Victor_inox said:


> Here is the video of pre with digital outs as well as analogs.
> 
> 
> 
> This is first unit with this option sold.
> Questions, just ask.


What is it with Russians and 80's music?


----------



## splaudiohz

I added my 4ch tube preamp to my home audio setup after my turn table. It was a dynamic increase in sound. I am ordering a SS line driver to really boost things to a better signal sensitivity for the tube preamp but I am expecting nothing less than perfection. Love this thing!

Vic lemme know when a Phono version is released


----------



## Victor_inox

splaudiohz said:


> What is it with Russians and 80's music?


Good music is good music regardless of release date.


----------



## splaudiohz

Victor_inox said:


> Good music is good music regardless of release date.


True


----------



## Victor_inox

Good morning!


----------



## Victor_inox

Saturday


----------



## Victor_inox

few improvements has been made for the next bunch.


----------



## deltasaurus

Any information on the improvements? I also want to say thank you so much for the 4 and 8 channel models I received from you recently. I haven't had the opportunity to hook the 8 channel up as a 4 channel two stage, but it is coming soon. If it does what the 4 channel does in two stage it will be well worth the investment. I have been wanting to get the "tube sound" in my mobile installs, but have never had the opportunity due to the fact that I could never find a way to justify the investment. Then Victory Sonics came along and I was able to fulfill the desire and feel that I "got my monies worth". I am looking forward to using your preamps as well as the amps that you are working on in all 5 of my vehicles. The warmth and depth the preamp has added is great and definitely noticeable, and I just threw the preamp in with no additional tuning. Once I get my 8 channel in and everything fully setup I hope to write a more in depth opnion in either my build log or in a separate post.
Victor, can you pm me your email address again so I can get in touch with you regarding future purchases. Thank you.


----------



## Victor_inox

It`s exactly same units inside so it will do exactly the same. I`m happy you like it, enjoy.
I`m also glad to be first to post feedback in your Itrader.


----------



## Victor_inox

January 1st price will be changed to 149 for 2ch and 299 for 4. customisations still the same. New developments(not preamplifier) underway but these proven designs will stay.


----------



## Beezlebub

Excuse my ignorance, but how does this work in a car? I don't see anywhere to connect a remote turn on wire? Also, is it like a line booster, adding voltage to the signal? I haven't personally seen vacuum tubes used in anything other than guitar amps before but I know there are lots of home audio equipment with tubes.


----------



## Victor_inox

Preamp consume 0.7-1A of current you simply power it from switched line like sig lighter or such. No need for relay turn on but can be done if desired. It has 22db of gain so its not a buffer but rather voltage amplifier. Default setting is up to 5volts hu preouts.
Preamps can be used at home as well with 12V 1A ac adapter.


----------



## gckless

Interested in the status/design of the power amp. Will you use tube rectifier, have the ability to use different tubes in the power stage? I've been eyeing an ST-70 lately, but am looking at all options.

Also, do you offer a two channel preamp in kit form?


----------



## Victor_inox

gckless said:


> Interested in the status/design of the power amp. Will you use tube rectifier, have the ability to use different tubes in the power stage? I've been eyeing an ST-70 lately, but am looking at all options.
> 
> Also, do you offer a two channel preamp in kit form?


No tube rectifier will not be used, why?
different tubes, yes, any EL34 substitutes, KT77, 6L6,etc.
ST-70 is wonderful amp you can probably use with inverter . you gonna need good one with enough juice to power that monster.
I haven`t tried that in a car.
yes I can sell you 2ch in kit form if you feel like soldering yourself.
PM or email [email protected]


----------



## Victor_inox

Saturday


----------



## Victor_inox

Happy New Year everybody!


----------



## Victor_inox

Sunday bump back TTT


----------



## Victor_inox

bump ttt.


----------



## Victor_inox

2ch version price drop 150 effective jan 1st.


----------



## Victor_inox

Line of tube power amps is about to be released, stay tuned.


----------



## deeppinkdiver

Looking forward to this Vic! Curious to see what you have created


----------



## james2266

Victor_inox said:


> Line of tube power amps is about to be released, stay tuned.


Nice... I will keep my eyes peeled for this one. Any hints available Victor? 2 or 4 channels? Dimensions? I am kind of thinking I might need a new amp for my midrange/tweets. My current amp is having some issues possibly. Hoping to check a few other potential causes today.


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## thehatedguy

Let me go and touch myself...


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## subwoofery

thehatedguy said:


> Let me go and touch myself...


What he said :blush:

Kelvin


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## splaudiohz

Victor_inox said:


> Line of tube power amps is about to be released, stay tuned.


True Tube? Count me in


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## james2266

thehatedguy said:


> Let me go and touch myself...


What people do in their own privacy always amazes me



splaudiohz said:


> True Tube? Count me in



Yes, I am definitely putting all my plans for my amp rack on hold until I see what Vic has in store here. Hope the dimensions work for me.


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## Victor_inox

here is ****ty youtube video recorded with my phone, pandora playing.





case in the works, will be two versions for sure, maybe more.
what I can tell right now is that it will be monoblocks each in it`s own case.
each monoblocks have tube preamp out so you can chain your solid state amps after tube. adjustable output level.


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## Victor_inox

Idea was to be able to use pretty much any octal based power tube with this PCB, El34,6CA7, 6550, KT77, KT88, Kt120, KT150.
biggest tubes require different transformer, therefore case will be different as transformers seen on that video is quite big and weight 10LB each, current case I use for preamps is good for a EL34-KT88 transformer on top of it. KT120-KT150 will need another case to be found yet.


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## cajunner

schwing!

so, what's a middle of the road KT-88 pair gonna run?


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## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> schwing!
> 
> so, what's a middle of the road KT-88 pair gonna run?


1000 bucks give or take. And that is 3 times cheaper than cheapest competitor.


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## cajunner

and will you defend your design against the Milbert?

similar power specs, similar design goals, similar sonic attributes, less than half the cost?


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## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> and will you defend your design against the Milbert?
> 
> similar power specs, similar design goals, similar sonic attributes, less than half the cost?


Milbert is push pull, this one is single ended and that`s alone make it better. 
I can place it against any tube amplifier on the market SQ wise. It sounds so freakishly unbelievable I can`t stop listening to it. 
nothing like that was ever on the market. Switch the tube or tube transformer combo, dial in bias and you good to go. 
I can demo it to anyone who want to come in. You can bring your gear with you too. I`m very happy and excited with results so far and it`s only gets better as it evolves. 
Questions?


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## Victor_inox

been asked to make you tube video playing something familiar.
not sure how you tube can give you any real picture but here it is


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## thehatedguy

Edcor iron?

I think the big HSS is the target he might be aiming to take down. Milbert is push pull and biased closer to B than A/B, and the HSS is single ended class A. Big big difference in how they sound. Sure, you can get more power push pull...or you can get more efficient speakers running single ended .

Victor, any reports on the KT150s? The first couple versions of the Eli 120s had rave reviews, but they went a way...and last time I checked the 120s were only so-so compared to a nice KT88 like a Golden Lion reissue or a Winged-C 6550 or KT88. I just recently discovered there was a 150.


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## Victor_inox

Edcor indeed. who else use obnoxious blue covers.. 
I could probably source few tangos but who would pay for it if edcor made here in NM and very good. there is another company in GB who i heard made good once but comes at cost.edcor probably better than what HSS use anyway.
Kt150 is pretty much same thing as 120 but beefier, since there is only one factory making them no comparison possible. darn thing can dissipate 70W in class A single ended. most powerful tube made for low frequency amplifiers. KT120 diven audio research amp can get 300W with ease, for power hungry crowd. in PP of course.
I like how KT150 sounds but tweaking of that just started, too early for conclusions. 

KT88 is what used at the moment of last recording.


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## cajunner

gotta ask, what is the reason nobody has produced an amp with the same design choices, for the mobile environment?

is it that the cost of the iron is just too high for a large corporation to make their profit margins?

or is it that the durability of these power amps in mobile environments is tied to the glass, and making warranty repair too often for good, hot plates?

has the design and cost of small run PC boards, merged with reliable tube manufacture to allow such an offering that wasn't there in the past?

just wondering why, if single-ended is the peach without the pit, hasn't the peach orchard industry taken notice?


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## thehatedguy

Well, a few reasons...

The iron can get expensive. You have to replace tubes.

Main thing in my mind is the size for the power produced. They will be fairly large amps and heavy too. Not too many people want to give up the space for 30x2 (with the KT88s). And speakers are getting less sensitive...so you need more powerz to get loud.

And the power supply. From an engineering side of things, that is the most complicated aspect of the whole amp (not to minimize the amp circuit Victor is using). Taking 12v to 300-400 volts just isn't done a lot these days.

Some people (like me) love single ended, others like push pull...and others still like push pull A/B. Single ended is the most wasteful in terms of efficiency way to go about things. And single ended has taken hold some in the US...but in Japan it's huge. Look at the Audio Note Kondo designed amps...


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## Victor_inox

Hated got it nailed, it`s cheaper to make 1000W solid state then 20W single ended and not necessarily tubes, solid state as well. and easier to sell to people after they been told that all amps still sound the same.
As reliability goes, guess how many preamps I`ve had to repair since i started selling them here? zero. perhaps story about tube failures slightly exaggerated.
As hated said power supply is what important here, build one and the rest is easy.

Anything else I missed?


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## cajunner

this is what I believe, or have come to understand about tube power amps.

they sound great when pushed into some distortion.

my idea is that the back emf modulating the transformer field, creates that pleasing 2nd harmonic, and that if you have a low enough powered amp, say 30W, you can get into the amp's sonics before the speaker starts crapping out too, with higher levels of eddy currents and power compression making a mix of bad and good sounds with the amp.


so, why not make a transformer modulating the big transformer, effectively "****ing" with the field before emf is necessary?

sort of a field coil principle, used on the transformer. A transformer's transformer, haha....

then you could get the effects of high amplitude modulation by adjusting a dial, at any volume level.


but I don't really know anything about tube power amplifiers.


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## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> but I don't really know anything about tube power amplifiers.


that`s sums it up. 
first solid state had transformers as well, not get the same sound.

rare trannies still get thousands second hand. Edcor can make just about anything custom if you know what you want, they have access to great iron and wire. they can wind it with silver wire if you pay the price.
I don`t buy into multi thousand dollars trannies but some people do. 
maybe I`m incorrect in my thinking and sound like old fart but they don`t make it like they used to anymore.
take a look at this video and tell me that it`s not amazing


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## cajunner

Victor_inox said:


> that`s sums it up.
> first solid state had transformers as well, not get the same sound.
> 
> rare trannies still get thousands second hand. Edcor can make just about anything custom if you know what you want, they have access to great iron and wire. they can wind it with silver wire if you pay the price.
> I don`t buy into multi thousand dollars trannies but some people do.
> maybe I`m incorrect in my thinking and sound like old fart but they don`t make it like they used to anymore.
> take a look at this video and tell me that it`s not amazing


I believe in the iron.

Sansui was a pioneer, interesting transformer designs.

When you say solid state couldn't get the same sound, wasn't it because they weren't trying to do that?

chasing that lowest harmonic distortion metric, lead them away from the tube simplicity, and if you tried today to get an amp with mosfet output to play class A from a tube-driven pre-amp, it's still not the same, is it?

the soft clip of the tubes, and the energy transmission through the transformer's field, have to work in concert. The mosfet breaks clean, there's very little room logarithm-wise, for a sweetness to develop at the knee.

to develop the kind of tube power we need, the real estate is limited, and the poor efficiency, and the environment is hostile, and the weight, the cost, the tubes...

which all makes it worth it, I guess.

who doesn't want to fill their trunk space with a big tube current hog, then...?


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## Victor_inox

you preoccupied with idea that we Need power when in fact we don`t. we need higher sensitivity drivers. movie theaters in 1950th has 5 watt amplifiers.


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## cajunner

Victor_inox said:


> you preoccupied with idea that we Need power when in fact we don`t. we need higher sensitivity drivers. movie theaters in 1950th has 5 watt amplifiers.


Until Lucas came along, theater and hi-fi wasn't synonymous.

sure, you had loud horn-based cabinets and huge compression drivers, but you didn't have the source material, not really.

I get your point, and in the car thin membrane paper cones and formers, don't do that great.

If high efficiency was that spectacular there would be Lowther car units, who wouldn't like that?

I think we need a little bit of durability in car, first and after that is taken care of, we don't have high efficiency anymore. 

Look at the OEM speakers for your sign, they get as much as they can from a few watts, and all we want to do is replace those.


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## thehatedguy

Why is high efficiency and durability mutually exclusive in your mind? The same compression drivers we use in cars are used in outdoor installed PA systems. You think what we do in car audio is more or less extreme than a PA system that is permanently installed outside?

You can do HE in the car, but it doesn't mean you are having 3" midranges and 2" fullrange drivers. If you didn't want horns, something like some B&C or 18Sound 6s and some AMTs would be sweet and about 93dB, step up to some 8s and you get a system that's about 95-96dB. Or you could do some proaudio coaxes, B&C, BMS, and Radian have some nice ones...roughly 93-95dB there for the 8s.


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## Victor_inox

cajunner said:


> Until Lucas came along, theater and hi-fi wasn't synonymous.
> 
> sure, you had loud horn-based cabinets and huge compression drivers, but you didn't have the source material, not really.
> 
> I get your point, and in the car thin membrane paper cones and formers, don't do that great.
> 
> If high efficiency was that spectacular there would be Lowther car units, who wouldn't like that?
> 
> I think we need a little bit of durability in car, first and after that is taken care of, we don't have high efficiency anymore.
> 
> Look at the OEM speakers for your sign, they get as much as they can from a few watts, and all we want to do is replace those.


I disagree that efficient drivers can`t be durable, hated presented just a few examples.
Phass makes high efficiency drives specifically made for cars. plenty proaudio as well. what is wrong with standart Lowther? if bose paper units survive in cars for decade why do you think Lowther will fail? 

horns in cars also proved to be efficient. no one offering 30W tube amp to drive your sub. That`s a frequency most power desired.


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## Victor_inox

Tube power amp is officially ready.
THat`s how monoblocks looks like
















here is side picture with no cover, amp has input and output from preamp stage to whatever more amps you need. input gain and output level adjustable through holes on the bottom of the case.


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## Carlton8000

Stop the Press! So Sexy! 

Specs? & Price?


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## Victor_inox

Carlton8000 said:


> Stop the Press! So Sexy!
> 
> Specs? & Price?


I`ll start separate thread for this one, that was just a teaser.
quick heads up.

Single ended monoblocks, support pretty much any octal power tube 
EL34, KT77, KT88,6550, KT120, KT150. KT120 KT150 will be separate version due to different transformer requirement. 
EL34-12W undistorted power. 
KT88- 22W
KT120- 35W
KT150- 45W.

FR 20-20000 Hz.
input sensitivity 0.5-5V.
Load 4-8 Ohm.

switching between tubes will require bias adjustment by customer, I will provide tutorial. all you need is multimeter and basic math skills. 
Price start from 500 and increase depending on tube/transformer cost. You`d need at least a pair for passive stereo. As promised stereo will run you a grand. closest competitor cost 3 times that. 

Very unique feature is tube preamp output, none of the competitors sporting anything like that. It`s not pass through it`s 12ax7 tube preamp you can chain your solid state amps to. with adjustable output level up to 5V.


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## deeppinkdiver

Holy $hit you did it!! Amazing Vic, very happy for you to see this getting finalized.

Congratulations! Maybe later this year I can pick up a couple. Looking forward to reviews on this for sure. Very thoughtful of you to integrate your pre-amp for output!

Looks awesome!


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## deeppinkdiver

Holy $hit you did it!! Amazing Vic, very happy for you to see this getting finalized.

Congratulations! Maybe later this year I can pick up a couple. Looking forward to reviews on this for sure. Very thoughtful of you to integrate your pre-amp for output!

Looks awesome!


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## Victor_inox

Thanks Steve,reviews will be good I`m confident about it, in my biased opinion this one sounds better than anything I heard in car audio amplification and most of high-end designs. 
damn thing sounds so good I`m spending my time to listening to darn thing instead of making it ready for prime time...


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## cmac06

Put a link to new thread, so I can get a few of these.


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## Victor_inox

cmac06 said:


> Put a link to new thread, so I can get a few of these.


As soon as I make new thread.


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## bigfastmike

Sweetness!


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## Victor_inox

cmac06 said:


> Put a link to new thread, so I can get a few of these.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/173646-victory-sonics-tube-amplifiers.html


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## ImK'ed

Wow i would love 4 mono blocks for midrange and tweets! Well done!


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## KillerBox

Has anyone tried these preamps on a MS8 with external class d amps?


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## Victor_inox

KillerBox said:


> Has anyone tried these preamps on a MS8 with external class d amps?


 I`m sure couple customers use it like that.


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## season_of_ages

KillerBox said:


> Has anyone tried these preamps on a MS8 with external class d amps?


I got the equipment, just haven't gotten around to installing anything yet. 

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk


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## will.

Victor_inox said:


> Funny you mentioned that. 4ch versiin can be used as double stage,I just tested that. 1 and 2 outs connected to 3 4 ins. 3 4 outs became master out. Second tube works as second stage. No modifications required. Sounds great. And first pot became master volume while second works as second stage adjustment. No bridge but rather drive tube. Second stage tube would be best to change to 12au7 or 12at7 12ax7 works fine but lower gain tube will sound even better. Good thinking istundra! Id do more testing as soon as I get shipped pres paid for.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk


Hey Victor,

Can you explain the reasoning behind wanting to do a second stage? Is it just for added effect? How does this sound? I don't currently own a 4 channel preamp otherwise I would try it...


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## Victor_inox

will. said:


> Hey Victor,
> 
> Can you explain the reasoning behind wanting to do a second stage? Is it just for added effect? How does this sound? I don't currently own a 4 channel preamp otherwise I would try it...


 
just for added effect. I believe someone who tried already posted review here.


I personally found it interesting sounding, quite different from solid state multistage amplification, conventional amps use up to 5 stage amplification without possibility of multistage adjustments.


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## waldojeffershead

Lazy subscribe. Neat product


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## Victor_inox

waldojeffershead said:


> Lazy subscribe. Neat product


 Thanks.I don`t think I`ll be offering those any time longer on this forum. At least not in unfinished form.


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## james2266

I actually have a 2 channel and a 4 channel that I am not using. If anyone is looking I might part with one or both. They are quite nice but didn't really work for my build.


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## Victor_inox

Korg in cooperation with Noritake Itron Corp developed brand new incarnation of vacuum tube. knowing how Japs obsessed with tubes there no surprise here.
Nutube – English | korgnutube.com – English


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## Victor_inox

Victor_inox said:


> Korg in cooperation with Noritake Itron Corp developed brand new incarnation of vacuum tube. knowing how Japs obsessed with tubes there no surprise here.
> Nutube – English | korgnutube.com – English


Will be working on it. 
Like I have nothing better to do. 

















Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox

Progress has been made.









Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## Weightless

Any concern with microphonics? I read they can be sensitive to vibration. 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox

Weightless said:


> Any concern with microphonics? I read they can be sensitive to vibration.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


Do you have any problems with microphonics with my preamps you use?

If anything I have a thing or two down my sleeve to prevent if any.


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## Weightless

None with the current line of preamps. Was just curious about the korg tube

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox

Weightless said:


> None with the current line of preamps. Was just curious about the korg tube
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


in case of Korg tube microphonics is not really a microphonics but current rushing on turn on. Proper use or capacitive filtering and time delay prevent that.


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## Victor_inox

Victor_inox said:


> in case of Korg tube microphonics is not really a microphonics but current rushing on turn on. Proper use or capacitive filtering and time delay prevent that.


 Properly mounted that tube has no microphonics unless you start tapping on it with something hard. no microphonics but so far circuit i build sound like ****. 
gonna rebuild again.


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## dcfis

I figured it would prolly be a learning curve with that alien technology looking korg





Victor_inox said:


> Victor_inox said:
> 
> 
> 
> in case of Korg tube microphonics is not really a microphonics but current rushing on turn on. Proper use or capacitive filtering and time delay prevent that.
> 
> 
> 
> Properly mounted that tube has no microphonics unless you start tapping on it with something hard. no microphonics but so far circuit i build sound like ****.
> gonna rebuild again.
Click to expand...


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## Victor_inox

dcfis said:


> I figured it would prolly be a learning curve with that alien technology looking korg


 I made 2 circuits one with just the tube and another with op amp driver stage.

So far I`m very disappointed. back to square one. i don`t believe Korg would release a dud.


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## dcfis

Any other update, wanting some tube flavor


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## RockamyZ

He is still banned I guess. You can email him from this site but took a week for a response. His company is Victory Sonics and is on facebook.


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## Weightless

He responds quickly from facebook. I don't know how this particular project is coming along, but he is still in business. 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## preston

Why did he get banned ? 
I assume for selling stuff without paying the forum but I'm curious.

You know there is a lot of posts in this forum but I'm not sure I ever saw an actual review by a purchaser. They're cheap enough I think I'll try one but it would be interesting to hear someone else's impression first.


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## GEM592

preston said:


> Why did he get banned ?
> I assume for selling stuff without paying the forum but I'm curious.
> 
> You know there is a lot of posts in this forum but I'm not sure I ever saw an actual review by a purchaser. They're cheap enough I think I'll try one but it would be interesting to hear someone else's impression first.


Oh it was quite a lot more than that. Let's not pump up his ego or he will scramble up a new handle, if he hasn't already. No doubt he is reading this.


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