# Massive Audio NX5 Going Into Protection



## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

Just got this thing installed (finally) running a set of older Alpine comps up front (4 ohm load) and a 10w6v2 (wired to 2 ohms) on the sub channel. I've got nothing for rear fill so the rear channels are free. Today, moderate heat, nothing major, the amp would go into protection. I would need to shut it down for roughly 15 mins in order for it to reset itelf.

I had to get in to watch the playoffs, so I haven't done any trouble shooting yet. Any ideas gents?


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## Sonically_Sound (May 26, 2011)

Are the rear channels bridged into your 2 ohm sub? Most 4 channels are only stable to 4 ohms bridged. That could be your problems.

Check to make sure your ground is good also.


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

Sonic - It's a 5 channel amp...rears are unused and the sub is run off the sub channels. I'm using the same ground spot that my JLs were using, but it's worth a shot. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Any other thoughts?


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

My hunch is you might have a defective amp. If I may take the risk of assuming you know how to properly set up an amp and you don't have the gains maxed, there seems to be no reason your NX5 would go into protect. The load your speakers and sub are presenting would barely get it warm unless you're pushing it into clipping.


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

Gains not maxed, so I have/had the fear that the amp was defective. But, on the way in this morning, I was on it pretty hard all the way into the office (40 min. drive) and not one issue. This thing may be a bit more susceptible (sp?) to heat than I would have thought. 

I have it mounted in the trunk under the rear deck (G35 sedan). I'll keep an eye on things and see how this plays out.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

I've always wondered how well the Massive amps handled heat. Most any other amp of comparable o output power is at least twice the size. Being AB, theres a lot of heat that the small package doesn't look like it would be able to dissipate. Honestly the Massive Nanos seem to defy thermal physics for the power they make. Maybe you happen to be the first to push it hard enough in temperature conditions adequate to overload the thermal package.


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

JS - They are a bit small for the power.

Don't know now, but we'll see soon enough. The car has been sitting in a lot all day, it's better than 90 degrees, and it is time to go home.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

these massive audio amps are overrated, might produce rated power with only one channel running but as soon as you power all the channels at the same time especially at lower impendences they run out of gas and/or get hot/protect


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

Azn -
Have you experienced/tested that yourself? I've seen the birthsheets provided with the amps that show the power, but I always wondered if that was with only 1 channel driven or all driven. For their size, it really confused me how they could make that much power with AB efficiency in that small of a package with no fins. Tested with 1 channel driven and it dropping considerably with more channels driven makes more sense and falls more in line with the expected capabilities given its size.


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## massiveaudio (Sep 10, 2009)

Your amplifier should not go into thermal unless the voltage from the RCA is too high (higher than 5 volts) or there is an impedance problem or burnt speaker. 

Best way to isolate the problem is to disconnect the A/B side and only run the woofer (Class D) and see if the problem goes away. If so, then we know it’s the A/B side and you should check your speakers with a multi meter to make sure they are not burnt or a wrong impedance. 

If your speakers are ok and the RCA input is at the proper level then you might have a problem with the amplifier itself and should call our RA department for an evaluation. 

Also the amplifiers are not overrated at all. I am not sure why the other poster said this but I can assure you that they will produce the stated RMS at non distortion levels as indicated on the manual and test sheet.


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

All - Thanks for joining in the discussion.

Massive - Always love to see manufacturers on here.

The verdict is in and the amp is going into protection mode. In regards to the impedence question, the front channels are seeing a 4ohm load and the sub channel is seeing a 2ohm load. Those are the only channels being driven. The rear channels are unused.

On the way home today, sure enough, 20 minutes into the drive it shuts down. I pulled over, popped my panel clips and the sucker was hotter than any amp I've ever used. I've honestly never had an amp go into protection....ever. I'm an old hat (pushing 40) and I've been at this since high school. 

At any rate, I am going to vent the panel tomorrow to allow a bit more airflow and see what comes of that. 

Massive - Just to be a bit more clear as to how I have the NX5 installed, it is mounted inverted on my rear deck where the factory amp was. The "beauty" panel that is normally there is in place. That is the panel that I will be modifying to allow a bit more airflow. It is puzzling still as I have removed the Bose sub (ha!) and there is a gaping hole venting into the cabin. I had no doubts originally that this would provide more than enough airflow. Regarding the RA, if this proves to be an amplifier issue, how liberal are you guys with warranty work? This amp was purchased through Ebay (new, not used). I had no choice at the time as I was dying to try one and everyone was out of stock.

By the way, preout voltage on my Pioneer AVH is no better than 4V.

Now that I know what's going on, let's see if the fix is as simple as it should be/seems.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

Doug -
When you say inverted, do you mean the amp is up side down? If so, that could be causing heat to stay close to the electronics causing it to overheat prematurely.

Massive-
Can you confirm the Nano amps wil do rated power into all channels with all channels driven at the same time?
Also, can you provide some insight into how you were able to get so much power into a package less than half the size of competitors? I've been eyeing the NX5 myself, but its size and power defies thermodynamics to me.
Btw, you should revise your website to change all the "mill speck" references to directly say "mil spec". A mill speck is a small piece of corn left on the mill after you ground it. =) I think the correction will add to the professional image of the company.


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

Yep, upside down. I thought that it might play some roll, but not enough to send it into thermal protection. Quite a few guys mount amps in the same spot that I have (no NX5's yet that I am aware of) without issue. 

If the vent doesn't work, I'm going with another option as I chose the amp specifcally base upon reviews and the ability to mount it where I did. At this stage of the game, losing trunk space is not something that I want to do.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

It could be marginal as it is and your inverted mounting pushes it over the edge.

There are other amps of similar size that would for there and power your setup, which doesn't sound power hungry since youre not bridging the stereo channels to power your front stage.


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

Jsracing said:


> It could be marginal as it is and your inverted mounting pushes it over the edge.


That statement there is where I think I am with this setup. Not quite pissed off over it, yet. I have my fingers crossed that this additional venting is going to solve my problem, but.....:mean:


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## bspar929 (Jun 9, 2011)

I have a Massive NX-5 that is mounted in the engine compartment on my boat that has been going into protection since installing it at the end of last year. I assumed it was due caused by heat, based upon the location of the amp and the fact that my old Cerwin-Vega did the same thing. I contacted Massive today and they were very helpful, giving me several things to check. They were pretty adamant that the input voltage cannot be over 5 v and basically said if the voltage is over 4 volts the gain should be set at minimum. I'm hoping this is the problem as I know my tuner is rated at 4 v at the RCA's and I'm pretty sure my gain is set around 50%. I'm headed to the lake tomorrow to check it out.


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## temposs (Mar 13, 2008)

Bleh, I just bought an NX5 and the last thing I wanted to hear were issues about them going into protection mode. I'm going to be installing it in my truck, which does not have AC, in a rather mild climate. Maybe I shouldn't even bother opening it...

Anyone have one of these things working well who can chime in and make me feel better about me purchase?


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

bspar929 said:


> They were pretty adamant that the input voltage cannot be over 5 v and basically said if the voltage is over 4 volts the gain should be set at minimum. I'm hoping this is the problem as I know my tuner is rated at 4 v at the RCA's and I'm pretty sure my gain is set around 50%. I'm headed to the lake tomorrow to check it out.


Unless you're deaf, your HU is not putting out 4Vrms constantly. Music is so dynamic that even if you hit 4V peak values occasionally, your rms value would likely be under 1V, so I HIGHLY doubt you're overdriving the pre-amp of the amp. Gain at 50% shouldn't be a problem. If it's near the engine, sounds like it's in an area that's already hot and may not get much cool air flow.


temposs -
If the amp will be in an area that either has good air flow (actual air movement) or a lot of air that's often renewed (i.e. in the cabin), it should do ok. Big power in a small package using AB design means there isn't much, if any, headroom for heat, so heat management is key. As I mentioned earlier, every AB I've had, played with, etc. has run hot when either on hot days or in low vented areas.


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## massiveaudio (Sep 10, 2009)

Hello and sorry for the delay.. Thank you for the Mil Spec catch.. I passed that on to the webmaster and that should be corrected. I also confirmed that rated power is when all channels are running. This unit has 2 power supplies for class D and class AB. 

While I do not know 100% the science behind it all, I do know that we use high quality SMD and special Torrids to keep the units cool in such a small heat sink. It also increases the unit’s efficiency which is a problem for heat and a bonus for power. 

Regarding the heat and voltage. If you are sure that the amplifier is getting proper air flow then I would try and reduce the gain, if the voltage is over 4V, and see if it helps the heat issue. If all else fails we do have a very good grace repair or replacement program for any out of warranty items. Especially if the unit is found to be defective for any reason but also if it was damaged. You would need to talk to the RA department but generally they take your unit and offer you a new or refurbished unit for a low cost to help get you going. 

I really hope you get this resolved soon so that you are able to enjoy your system.. The Nano series is very reliable and for the past 2 years have had a very low rate for returns, if that is a concern of anyone’s. 
Thank you all for being involved and please feel free to jump on our Massive Forum to talk to other users for more in depth discussion on any of our products!


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

They make rated power with all channels being powered simultaneously at what distortion level and for how long? Will it go into thermal at extended playing times? I just find it hard to believe taking into account power produced and implemented cooling measured


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

They are CEA 2006 rated, so I would expect the power to be all channels driven at 1% THD.

I have an NX5 and have never had an issue with it going into protect mounted under my seat. I almost guarantee it's because of it being mounted upside down without airflow. There are no fins, so all the heat needs to dissipate through the heavy metal portion, not the underside. I'd try moving it first. Also, check that the speakers don't have any kind of weird impedance drops over their frequency range or something.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

massiveaudio said:


> Your amplifier should not go into thermal unless the voltage from the RCA is too high (higher than 5 volts) or there is an impedance problem or burnt speaker.
> 
> Best way to isolate the problem is to disconnect the A/B side and only run the woofer (Class D) and see if the problem goes away. If so, then we know it’s the A/B side and you should check your speakers with a multi meter to make sure they are not burnt or a wrong impedance.
> 
> ...



Your 2 ohm power rating on the 4-ch's is overinflated just like all your old amps. The PAF's are floating around here on the forum somewhere.


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## RedAggie03 (Jun 7, 2009)

ecbmxer said:


> They are CEA 2006 rated, so I would expect the power to be all channels driven at 1% THD.
> 
> I have an NX5 and have never had an issue with it going into protect mounted under my seat. I almost guarantee it's because of it being mounted upside down without airflow. There are no fins, so all the heat needs to dissipate through the heavy metal portion, not the underside. I'd try moving it first. Also, check that the speakers don't have any kind of weird impedance drops over their frequency range or something.


Or flip it over and find some spacers?


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

Airflow is adequate (for most amps) considering many amplifiers get mounted in this location. However, this particular amp, due to its construction (lack of a finned heatsink) is an issue. 

I am going to provide even further ventilation, but if it doesn't work where it is, it's going to find a new home. I could probably suspend it from the rear deck as well. We'll see.


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

*DO NOT INVERT THESE THINGS...*

Alright, here is where we are with this. No beauty panel in place and full ventilation to the amp....no change in result. After 20 minutes of use at moderate volumes (not trying to rock the block :laugh: ), it shuts down due to its thermal protection. However, it now only takes about 5 minutes to recover. Another 20 minutes, this time at volumes that allow normal conversation, the thermal protection kicks in again.

Almost forgot that I never mentioned my gains. The gains are set at their minimum setting both front and sub channels.

As I have no impedence issues on any channel, my only conclusion is that these things DO NOT like to be mounted inverted. Now I have to tear the back end of this car apart again to attempt suspending it from the rear deck. God knows that taking apart the back end of this car to access the rear deck is a pain in the @ss!

At any rate, there it is. Do not mount these things inverted.


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## Jericho941 (May 24, 2011)

Is it at all possible that running just two of the four channels is contriubuting to a localized heat issue? I didn't see anyone mention this and don't know if it could be a problem. If the amp is bridgeable like the spec says, then run it as 2 channles bridged to see if the results are the same. I don't think that this should cause problems, but it's another experiment that won't require any challenging changes.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

There's usually only 1 temp sensor, so the overall amp needs to heat up for it to thermal.

The board is mounted on the bottom of the amp. Heat always rises. Mounted inverted, the hot air (and you can bet the air inside the amp cover is HOT) is rising to the board and heat soaking all the components (and the temp sensor). Flipping it right-side-up will hopefully fix the thermaling issue, but it's still surprising that you're only using 2 channels of the AB section and it already overheats. I would say the thermal design is marginal and this amp NEEDS good airflow or air quantity.


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## A Audio Stench (May 23, 2011)

ugh, was very close to ordering 2 of thse but mounting them close together with limited airflow, I wonder.


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## thelbz (Dec 6, 2010)

I can say from first hand experience that I have not had my NX4 or NX2 go into protect. They are pushed hard running CK6 and VK6 on the NX4 and the NX2 running 4ohm from a Alpine SWR-8. I recently had the set up running at a high volume on a 4hr drive and did not go into protect, sure they were hot but what AB wouldn't be. Massive does produce a good product IMO fairly priced and seem to be high quality


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## newsqguy (Apr 16, 2008)

i have a similar problem with my nx4 i have mine bridged running only my fronts. It is inverted and man does this thing get hot!!!!! It will go into thermal protect and then come back on about a minute later. Now i know i'm part to blame as it is mounted in the trunk upside down with NO airflow. I plan on running some temp tests with and without some computer fans (when i can find out which ones) and see if i still have the problem. Now with that being said i have an N2 right next to it powering just my V10 sub and it never goes into protect! so i'll lose my mids/highs but still have my subs bumping.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

So it looks like invert mounting is a nono for the multi-channel amps, even with only 2 AB channels driven as in the OPs case. The trunk isnt necessarily a bad place to mount amps. All my ABs have or are moumted in the trunj. Thats why I said good airflow or area with a lot of air, such as a trunk with nothing blocking the amp (i.e. Sittinf on top of it). The thermal design is close to the limit and it seems must be mounted uptight. If not, a fan will do wonders to lower temps.


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## newsqguy (Apr 16, 2008)

yea my air flow is limited as in it's attached to the rear deck right near the rear seats. so i'll start my hunt for fans......


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## AKMetal (Mar 3, 2011)

would like to hear your results. im on the fence for pulling the trigger on this.


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## Inferno333 (Mar 29, 2006)

You guys are crazy for mounting the amps upside-down!

That totally defeats the purpose of having a heatsink.




massiveaudio said:


> Your amplifier should not go into thermal unless the voltage from the RCA is too high. (higher than 5 volts)



I'll be running an Eclipse 8053 to my Nx4 and N3. Will I run into issues with the 8v preouts at zero gain? I don't run my system really hard and I can mount fans to deal with any heat.


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

I wouldn't go so far as to say crazy. As I know you are aware, many an amp has been mounted upside down. This is not uncharted territory here. The real issue, as has already been discussed, is that these amps generate a great deal of heat and their design may not be the best in regards to dissipiting that heat

It is now known that mounting them upside down is a no go. I would still be leary of running these multi-channel NX amps in any environment that does provides anything less than BETTER THAN ADEQUATE airflow. I do not believe that simple adequate airflow will suffice. These things get insanely warm to the touch...no, that's not correct. This thing was freaking hot. 

Just my opinion based on what I've seen. I am not trying to bash the amplifier at all, so the lovers of these amps please stand down. Small, decent power, relatively clean, and inexpensive. If they fit your install needs, and you can provide them with enough airflow, buy them.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

I have mine under the driver seat and it never goes into protect, ever. And this is an NX5 running all channels. Even when it was colder out and I ran the heater, which the rear vents blow heat on the amp under the seat. I think mounting inverted is a big no no for these amps due to the heat sink design.


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## newsqguy (Apr 16, 2008)

there is a HUGE difference between under your seat with a heater on and my WELL over 110 degree trunk with no circulation. Like i said i have the NX4 power just two speakers gain ALL the way down and still cuts out. Popped the trunk and this thing is beyond hot if i applied water it would probably sizzle(i wouldn't do that i'm just saying). 

These amps just don't dissipate the heat they generate while upside down. My N2 (mono amp) seems to do just fine sitting 3 or 4 inches away from it. 

It's just very disappointing that one of the things that attracts people to these amps (their small size and ability to mount them places where other amps just won't fit) is also a limiting factor to them. 

I've mounted amps upside down in many many installs before and not had these issues pushing harder and much more power and more drivers. 

Like i said i'm going to figure out a way to do some temp tests and try to incorporate some fans to my amp rack and see if it helps.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

As I've mentioned I'm this thread, small size, big power, AB efficiency of a bad combo for heat. None of this is saying these are bad amps, just that theyre thermally sensitive which is what I thought when they first came out. Under the right conditions, they work fine, but those conditions may not be common. A fan wil do wonders, so that should resolve heat issues.


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## A Audio Stench (May 23, 2011)

If you can invert mount it, it isn't that much harder to flip it over and use some spacers to mount it, right? 

I invert mounted a Sony XM2000R, getting that in and out was FUN lol.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in about these amps. Had mine for 3 days so far, total listening time of more than 5 hours. It gets a little warm, but even after sitting in 100 degree Texas heat and being under a false floor with no fans, it played at higher levels for a few 20 minute drives with no problems. I have noticed that the gain sensitivity is more sensitive than most other amps. I have all three of the gains at less than 1/2 running 6 ohms on the the first pair of channels, 8 ohms on the second pair of channels and 2 ohms on the sub channel. I believe that many people are probably overdriving the input stage and need to back off the gains a bit. I am running an Alpine 9887.


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## newsqguy (Apr 16, 2008)

That's the thing never over 4v input gains completely at zero running at 2 ohms can't see how that would be over driving......


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

My source is a Pioneer AVH-P4100DVD...at best 4v preouts and my gains are set at their minimum settings. My issue is simply the way that it is mounted. 

As for the guy inquiring into the difficulty in flipping it over, that's no problem. The issue is getting to it. Just a pain.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

GLN305 said:


> Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in about these amps. Had mine for 3 days so far, total listening time of more than 5 hours. It gets a little warm, but even after sitting in 100 degree Texas heat and being under a false floor with no fans, it played at higher levels for a few 20 minute drives with no problems. I have noticed that the gain sensitivity is more sensitive than most other amps. I have all three of the gains at less than 1/2 running 6 ohms on the the first pair of channels, 8 ohms on the second pair of channels and 2 ohms on the sub channel. I believe that many people are probably overdriving the input stage and need to back off the gains a bit. I am running an Alpine 9887.


The sub channel is class D so its efficient anyways and likely not cintributing to the overheating. Your driver loads result in much less current than what others are running so its not surprising youre generating less waste heat. Heat drops as current drops.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

Jsracing said:


> The sub channel is class D so its efficient anyways and likely not cintributing to the overheating. Your driver loads result in much less current than what others are running so its not surprising youre generating less waste heat. Heat drops as current drops.


True, but one person in here is having an overheating problem and NOT using one pair of channels. I can also say the Class D portion of the amp would absolutely contribute to the overheating issue as it shares the same heat sink and even being more efficient, still generates quite a bit of heat.

I did some experimentation today and found that a slight change in gain level makes a huge difference in how hot the amplifier gets. I would experiment with gains and see where that gets people.


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## a383z (Sep 20, 2010)

Im actually curious in a comparison between how does the amp do when loaded down to one ohm and if you keep you gain down is it still as hot.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

If you got high output voltages thru the rca's, back the volume knob down and reset the gain. If your hu states 4 volt pre outs, thats with the volume knob turned to the max.


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## newsqguy (Apr 16, 2008)

In my case I do not have an nx5 I have two separate amps one n2 and one nx4 (only running to speakers) so I'm a little different and added my input because it was similiar and not exactly what the OP was dealing with.


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

I'm the OP. Gains set at their minimum settings (can't go any lower), no impedence issues, amp goes thermal at both moderate and high volumes. The level of heat generated is an issue when mounted inverted. 

newsqguy is having a variation of this same issue as his amps go into thermal protection as well, with a different massive mult-channel amp.


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## newsqguy (Apr 16, 2008)

No mine Are upside down as well


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

newsqguy said:


> No mine Are upside down as well


I missed that...sorry for the mistake. I'm just trying to put this thing to bed as I truly feel that the issue has been uncovered. Good luck, man.


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## newsqguy (Apr 16, 2008)

thanks man you too! i'm going to throw the fans on (once i find them) and post back! I'll probably start a new thread with my results so i don't muck up yours any more (Sorry man)


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

GLN305 said:


> True, but one person in here is having an overheating problem and NOT using one pair of channels. I can also say the Class D portion of the amp would absolutely contribute to the overheating issue as it shares the same heat sink and even being more efficient, still generates quite a bit of heat.


The unused channels are AB channels, which says that if the D portion wasn't used at all and all 4 ABs were used, it would likely thermal also. While the Class D portion does contribute heat to likely an undersized heat sink (the chassis, and since there's no fins, no additional aid in dissipation), I doubt the class D portion is adding enough to push it into thermal. The OP has already stated that it thermals at moderate levels, which i'm assuming he isn't blasting his sub while his comps are just audible. The OP has also stated his gains are turned to minimum. As I stated before, a 4V pre-out does NOT mean it's driving 4V all the time rms. As Beatsdownlow mentioned, that is at max volume on the HU and musical power is quite a low when RMSd due to the peaky and dynamic nature (it's not a sine wave).
These amps are heat sensitive due to a thermal design that has little to no margin, thus requiring well thought out and chosen mounting and cooling schemes. Hopefully the ones having issues will get theirs resolved. My advice would be to mount it right-side-up and add a fan. Just go to a computer store, Fry's electronics (if there's one near you), etc. and pick up a 12V computer fan. An 80mm cost $7 and anything that flows >30cfm will drastically drop temps, so it would help much more if the amp has fins.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

I fully understand preout voltages and headunit volume level concepts. We can't guess on what section of the amp is creating more heat because if I was to guess I would say an 800 watt Class D section would create as much if not more heat then a 480 watt Class AB section with 1/2 of it used. Since this is my opinion versus yours...I see no reason to further clutter the thread with it.

What I do agree with is heatsink area versus amplifier output. Too much output for too little heatsink. I also believe that some people expect an amplifier that has compromises built into the design to still do everything as a normal amplifier would. Simply not true. It's small, yes. It will fit in areas most other amps won't, yes. This means you have to take extra precautions such as you suggested, fans. I also still believe that the gain section of this amplifier is particularly sensitive. I usually set my gains at around 1/2 way to start and listen at different volume levels to decide what direction I need to go with them. With this amp 1/2 gain was way too much even at lower levels, never had experienced that with any other amp, even back in the early 90's when preamp stages were built sensitive for the headunits available at the time. In saying all this, it may be possible that even at bottomed out gain levels, this amp may be putting out quite a bit of power and with the given location and unknown installation methods and amplifier construction compromises, this is causing the thermaling. I don't want to trash up this thread too much, so I will leave my opinion as that and hope that anyone having problems can figure them out.



Jsracing said:


> The unused channels are AB channels, which says that if the D portion wasn't used at all and all 4 ABs were used, it would likely thermal also. While the Class D portion does contribute heat to likely an undersized heat sink (the chassis, and since there's no fins, no additional aid in dissipation), I doubt the class D portion is adding enough to push it into thermal. The OP has already stated that it thermals at moderate levels, which i'm assuming he isn't blasting his sub while his comps are just audible. The OP has also stated his gains are turned to minimum. As I stated before, a 4V pre-out does NOT mean it's driving 4V all the time rms. As Beatsdownlow mentioned, that is at max volume on the HU and musical power is quite a low when RMSd due to the peaky and dynamic nature (it's not a sine wave).
> These amps are heat sensitive due to a thermal design that has little to no margin, thus requiring well thought out and chosen mounting and cooling schemes. Hopefully the ones having issues will get theirs resolved. My advice would be to mount it right-side-up and add a fan. Just go to a computer store, Fry's electronics (if there's one near you), etc. and pick up a 12V computer fan. An 80mm cost $7 and anything that flows >30cfm will drastically drop temps, so it would help much more if the amp has fins.


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## sddale (Mar 31, 2009)

Do you guys have any updates after turning the amps right side up?

Several years ago a shop mounted my Orion 1200d upside down in the trunk and it would go into protect. After I turned it right side up it was fine.


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## ZWOW6 (May 23, 2010)

looking for a update too

thx


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## Schnitz (Jun 26, 2008)

I can tell you my NX5 (mounted righht side up in my trunk with lots of ventilation) which has the front channels bridged powering my HAT Clarus 61-2's up front and the sub channel seeing a 1ohm load from a pair of SI BM MKiii's goes into protect about 45mins after continuous moderately loud play time. I've touched it and the thing will burn you if you leave your hand on it.
My HU is an Eclipse AVN5510 with 5v preout. I've been told Eclipse HU's are notorious for higher signal output than stated. I've yet to test mine.
I'll keep watch on this thread and post when I have preout numbers.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

Schnitz -
Can you try disconnecting the sub and see if it still thermals? Or run just one sub so the class D channel sees a 2ohm load.
I'm curious how much the D portion contributes to the thermal issues.


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## bearfan (Jun 3, 2011)

Ugh, I just bought one of these and it's doing this as well! Gains sets pretty low, mids/highs @ 4 Ohms and Sub at [email protected] Ohms. Sub level set medium/high all other below the half way point. The amp is sitting flat (haven't mounted it yet) and just shut down again 2x after 20 minutes of medium to high volume in temperatures of 75 degrees. I don't think these amps are ready for prime time or just not stable enough for 4 gauge pure copper wiring with stock battery and alternator. I've never had any issues with my Alpine 5 Channel amp and Eclipse AVN726e HU, and honestly I don't really think the Nano is all that much louder/punchier than it. Going to return it unless someone can figure it out.


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## a383z (Sep 20, 2010)

Im not positive that these amps problem is only overheating and going into protection. I have 4 fans on this amp 2 pushing air in to the rack and 2 pulling air out. This amp goes into protection if pushed hard for a period of time but its not hot. I starting to think some of its protection may be voltage related. Maybe not getting enough voltage. Im going to try to get a 2 gauge and see if it fixes the issues cause its currently running a 4 gauge cable. If this doesnt fix the issue then maybe its gone cause everything else should be more than good enough...upgraded battery and alternator and grounds and alternator wiring...literaly everything else.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

I have one of these arriving today. As soon as I have time to get it installed, I plan on putting it through its paces. I have a feeling I can easily determine if this amp has any weaknesses fairly quickly.

Then again, I will have two channels at 6 ohms, two channels at 4 ohms, and the sub at 2 ohms, so it may not be as bad in my situation. Regardless, I plan on beating the hell out of it and reporting back.

I figure the 7 minute version of this song would be a good first test:


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## SoundJunkie (Dec 3, 2008)

I have a friend who is having fits with a Massive 800.4 class A/B also mounted inverted. Same scenario, running 2 sets of Massive CK6 sets in the front and rear doors so seeing 4 ohm load on all four channels. Gains set to almost minimum and the HU is an Alpine that is rated at 5 volts max. 

After just a few minutes at moderate levels the amp goes into protection. Turn the volume down and it comes right back on. We put a fan on it even though I didn't feel it was thermal and problem persists. We unhooked his N3 on the sub to see if it was voltage related....same thing! 4 gauge run to distribution block and split to two 8 guage. This is in a HD GMC truck w/ HO alternator? I am going to put another amp in this week and see what happens....I am almost certain it is the Massive amp though. This was BNIB but purchased on the forum. Let's see and good luck to the OP, I know how frustrating it can be!


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## a383z (Sep 20, 2010)

Im thinking everyone might have thought the biggest problem from this amp is thermal protection... Ill check tonight to see what voltage the amp is getting and that maybe the protection that everyone is getting. Im not a fan of capacitors but for this amp maybe they are necessary to keep the voltage where the amp wants it to be.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

If my custom wound 220 amp alternator that idles at 14.5 volts can't handle the Massive NX5 when I am currently running 100 amps of fusing on class ab power with another 80 amps of fusing on gh, something is wrong!

EDIT: Actually, after talking to one of my friends who had his thermal twice on him over the course of the last few days, I'm just sending the NX5 back to Sonic. Looks like I am either going to continue to take up trunk space or go another route.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

DougJones said:


> Gains not maxed, so I have/had the fear that the amp was defective. But, on the way in this morning, I was on it pretty hard all the way into the office (40 min. drive) and not one issue. This thing may be a bit more susceptible (sp?) to heat than I would have thought.
> 
> I have it mounted in the trunk under the rear deck (G35 sedan). I'll keep an eye on things and see how this plays out.


Thats your problem probably, most amps including the Massive amps do not like to mounted upside down.

I have installed quite a few NX5's and never a heat issue.

Issue #2 if any it does not like more than 4 volts out of the HU, so all Eclipse decks will make the amp act crazy.

If you guys would have bought from a Massive dealer and no Sonice is not !! You would have great TECH service.


Like I siaid I have never had a NX5 go thermal if installed correctly.


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## Schnitz (Jun 26, 2008)

Is there a way to lower the output voltage of my Eclipse head unit?


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

This is weird people are having so much of an issue with these. Mine has never ever cut out in the 4 months or so I've had it. How loud are these being played?


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

I've never had my NX5 shut down.

Running Dayton RS150 4 ohms on CH1 & 2
Tang Band W3 4 Ohms on CH 3 & 4
Diamond Dual 4ohm sub wired to 2ohm on CH5

Mounted under my seat. I originally had it velcro'd directly to the carpet and after a 1 hour drive at loud volumes, I reached under and it felt VERY hot (couldn't hold my fingers on it for more than a second), but didn't shut down. I raised it off the carpet and now it will get quite warm, but hasn't shut down once, and I do that one hour drive with loud volumes a couple times a week.

Input is from a JBL MS-8. Gains set at 50% for the Tang Bands, 75% for the Daytons and 50% for the sub.


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## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

DougJones said:


> Alright, here is where we are with this. No beauty panel in place and full ventilation to the amp....no change in result. After 20 minutes of use at moderate volumes (not trying to rock the block :laugh: ), it shuts down due to its thermal protection. However, it now only takes about 5 minutes to recover. Another 20 minutes, this time at volumes that allow normal conversation, the thermal protection kicks in again.
> 
> Almost forgot that I never mentioned my gains. The gains are set at their minimum setting both front and sub channels.
> 
> ...


My suggestion was going to be to add a fan but that was before I got near the end.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

saMxp said:


> I've never had my NX5 shut down.
> 
> Running Dayton RS150 4 ohms on CH1 & 2
> Tang Band W3 4 Ohms on CH 3 & 4
> ...


My gains are exactly the same, except I have it bridged to my midbasses, so it's also at 50%, then on my NX2 it's at 50% for the widebands.


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## a383z (Sep 20, 2010)

Here is a question for you guys that are getting protection mode and for DAT. My amp goes into protection but its just usually after high volumes. Right now my gains on my amp are turned at about half way, the amp is seeing its signal form a Phoenix Gold EQ215x which if i am not mistaken could be giving my amp more than 4 volts. I am thinking of turning my gains on the amp all the way up and then turning the levels on my EQ way down. If I do this will it be possible that this may keep my amp from seeing to much voltage but still give me the output that i need. I plan on upgrading my power wire to the amp but truthfully I dont think this will fix the protection issue and my amp never heats up ( Have 4 fans on it) Any thoughts


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## a383z (Sep 20, 2010)

Well my little change in input didnt help... but i did notice my voltage in my car seems to fluctuate some time between high 14v and 13v. So after doing some research. I read that the older massive amplifier were really unhappy if they didnt get the voltage they wanted. I cant imagine that massive would change they way they build amps tooo much. So my suggestion especially to guys running 4 ga wire... upgrade to 2 or 0 ga first and see how things work.. I upgrading to 0 ga tonight when i get home and if it helps ill post.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Has anybody had their NX5 make a kind of high pitch noise (from the amp itself) for a few seconds right when you start the car? Mine has done this a few times and, weirdly, if you smack the amp, the noise stops. Not sure what the deal is or if anybody else has had it happen. Not a big deal, and I only can hear it because it's sitting directly under me.

Also, I'm running 4GA from the battery to a fused distro block, splitting into two more 4AWG and going to my NX2 and NX4. No problems at all. My car and battery are fairly new though, so maybe it is a supply voltage issue for some of these amps.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

ecbmxer said:


> Has anybody had their NX5 make a kind of high pitch noise (from the amp itself) for a few seconds right when you start the car? Mine has done this a few times and, weirdly, if you smack the amp, the noise stops. Not sure what the deal is or if anybody else has had it happen. Not a big deal, and I only can hear it because it's sitting directly under me.


You probably have a transformer winding that worked its way loose on the amp. That was one of my common complaints with using old school amplifiers because they squealed like a stuck pig from under the heat sink.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

****. Can it be fixed if I open up the amp? And I just screwed the thing back down under my seat. I'll just hit it each time I turn the car on for now, haha. I'd get dinged if a judge heard it though I'm sure.


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

I am th OP. I have yet to do anything about this problem due to time constraints. However, to DAT, you mention that you have never had an issue with these amps when they are mounted correctly. My response to that is that if these amps are not to be mounted inverted, somewhere, anywhere, it should be expressly stated in the manual. I understand that inverted mounting may not be ideal, but to have this thing go into fits from being mounted this way, it should be noted in the literature.

For those that may not have read some of the earlier posts, other than the inverted mounting , I have the front channels running a set of 4ohm comps, unused rear channels, and the sub channel powering a 10w6v2 at 2ohms. My deck is a Pioneer AVH-P4100DVD that may, and I say MAY, have 4 volt preouts. 

I stand by my assumption that my issues are because of the inverted mounting at this point as ventilation is no longer an issue. If this issue continues once I change the mounting arrangement, I guess that I will have a pretty nice paperweight and a reminder of what not to buy EVER again.


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## Schnitz (Jun 26, 2008)

It has nothing to with mounting them upside down. Mine has never been upside down. This problem only happens to me when its hot outside. Never happened before May. They have very little heat dissipation, plain and simple.


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

Schnitz said:


> It has nothing to with mounting them upside down. Mine has never been upside down. This problem only happens to me when its hot outside. Never happened before May. They have very little heat dissipation, plain and simple.


Not altogether true. Inverted mounting will cause these things to go into protection whether it's cool, warm, or hot outside, inside, beside, westside, eastside...you get my point I'm sure. 

However, I do agree that heat dissipation is indeed an issue/the issue.


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## Schnitz (Jun 26, 2008)

I agree.


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## a383z (Sep 20, 2010)

Everyone keeps saying its heat... I dont believe so ...mine is cool to the touch on one side and warm on the other right after it goes into protection. I turn off power it comes right back on .....I'm running 4 fans... running 0ga to a distribution block 4 ga from it to the amplifier 4ga for the ground. 145 amp alternator....Big 3 all upgraded... My EQ doesnt read that it putting out much more than couple volts in signal....Someone tell me why it goes into protection when driven hard. Willing to upgrade what needs to be upgraded but dont want to throw away more money for a over sensitive amp and really dont want to redesign a completely new amp rack since i have lots of hours building this one. Should i just send it back to massive and have them check if there is a problem with the amplifier.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

a383z said:


> Everyone keeps saying its heat... I dont believe so ...mine is cool to the touch on one side and warm on the other right after it goes into protection. I turn off power it comes right back on .....I'm running 4 fans... running 0ga to a distribution block 4 ga from it to the amplifier 4ga for the ground. 145 amp alternator....Big 3 all upgraded... My EQ doesnt read that it putting out much more than couple volts in signal....Someone tell me why it goes into protection when driven hard. Willing to upgrade what needs to be upgraded but dont want to throw away more money for a over sensitive amp and really dont want to redesign a completely new amp rack since i have lots of hours building this one. Should i just send it back to massive and have them check if there is a problem with the amplifier.


Never heard of that issue, and not sure why many of you guys are having trouble with the NX5??? I know several guys using them in Cali, and AZ and zero issues.

first thing I would do is contact Cory @ Massive Audio on Monday. SHe what he thinks is going on.


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## Schnitz (Jun 26, 2008)

For me its a heat issue because until it started to get hot out I never had any problems. When I touch mine after its gone into protection its crazy hot.
And I don't have the big 3 AND my head unit supposedly puts out more than 5v.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

You can do all you want for support equipment but it won't address an amp that has insufficient dissipation for your use.
The reason it's hot on one side is because the output devices are on that side. It turns back on because after ot shuts off, the thermal protection circuit os reset.
I'll say this for the umpteenth time, small package with an AB design will have more thermal issues than a larger package. If it doesn't work for your setup/use, theres nothing you can do except help with cooling as much as you can.


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## CGMMNY (Jul 26, 2011)

Anyone having issues with the Massive nano mono amps? I just purchased an N3 and plan on using it to power two 10's @ 2ohms. Should I be worried?


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

CGMMNY said:


> Anyone having issues with the Massive nano mono amps? I just purchased an N3 and plan on using it to power two 10's @ 2ohms. Should I be worried?


No Sir.....


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## CGMMNY (Jul 26, 2011)

DAT said:


> No Sir.....


Thanks! I hope it stays


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Well, you can add me to the list. I have an NX-4 powering a pair of Aura Whispers (8 ohm) and a pair of Peerless SL8s (8ohm) coming off of a Kenwood HU. 

The amp is mounted on a board at a slight angle and there is a decent amount of airspace around the amp. It would go into protect after about an hour or so of playing at decent levels...then I would have to wait 10-15 minutes before it would come out protect. During this time, the amp was very hot. Just like the others, you could not keep you hand on it for more than a second. 

I would lay it flat to make sure it was not the position causing it, but it still went into protection mode. 

I am going to get some spacers to get it off of the board and put a fan on it to see if that helps, but from reading the above, it doesn't look like it will help too much. 

It's a bit disappointing as I purchased 3 Massive Nano amps to go into 2 of my installs. If this is a common issue, then I am out a good sum of money.

I will post my findings after this weekend.

Justin


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## massiveaudio (Sep 10, 2009)

Hi Justin, 

I would like to see if we can help troubleshoot this. Can you email [email protected] and let us know your voltage numbers from the RCA input and also the consistant voltage from the car to the power terminal of the NX4?

The fact that you have 8 ohm speakers would not cause the amp to get hot unless they are blown and have a bad V.C. reading feeding to the amp that you can test with a MM. I assume that is not the case but it is always best to check off the non problems first to find the solution. 

Thank you~



Weightless said:


> Well, you can add me to the list. I have an NX-4 powering a pair of Aura Whispers (8 ohm) and a pair of Peerless SL8s (8ohm) coming off of a Kenwood HU.
> 
> The amp is mounted on a board at a slight angle and there is a decent amount of airspace around the amp. It would go into protect after about an hour or so of playing at decent levels...then I would have to wait 10-15 minutes before it would come out protect. During this time, the amp was very hot. Just like the others, you could not keep you hand on it for more than a second.
> 
> ...


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## DougJones (May 30, 2008)

massiveaudio said:


> Hi Justin,
> 
> I would like to see if we can help troubleshoot this. Can you email [email protected] and let us know your voltage numbers from the RCA input and also the consistant voltage from the car to the power terminal of the NX4?
> 
> ...


Someone from Massive! Great. I hope that there is some resolution to this issue. My question to you is this. For individuals that have no voltage drops in regards to power and, let's say, a consistent 4v input (maybe less), what could possibly be our issue (outside of what ideas we have already expressed here)? 

My original install had the amplifier mounted in an inverted fashion. Okay, not the best idea due to the amplifier's design. No biggie. I can correct the install. Now, mounted as it should be, adequate ventilation (for any amp I have ever used prior), I am still having issues.

Thanks


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## massiveaudio (Sep 10, 2009)

Sorry for the delay, I do not always get a chance to check the site for questions so if there is a long delay please email us and someone will help ASAP. 

Regarding Protection:

The protection will kick in if...
Voltage drops below 12V for a period of time. 
Input Voltage is higher than 4.5v (from RCA) (gains must be appropriate levels to match input voltage)
Heat hits over 170F (variable depending on impedance and voltage) 
Impedance is under 2 ohm stereo / 4 ohm mono
A bad/burnt voice coil sending a bad signal back to the amp. 

Other than that your amp should not shut down. 

For heat issues:
If the impedance is under 4 ohm stereo there is a 45 minute play period before the amp will start heat. After extended use after that time it will shut off and cool down. 

If the amp is mounted upside down (that’s where most of the heat is) it will get hot quickly.

If the amp is already damaged it could also heat up quickly even if it is not damaged enough to stop the playback. The parts that keep the amp cool may be damaged and that will not affect the SQ or playback although it will not keep itself cool and will result in overheating. 

I hope this helps and please let us know if you need service or inspection to determine the problem (you would have to send it to us) 

Thank you for your Support!!!



DougJones said:


> Someone from Massive! Great. I hope that there is some resolution to this issue. My question to you is this. For individuals that have no voltage drops in regards to power and, let's say, a consistent 4v input (maybe less), what could possibly be our issue (outside of what ideas we have already expressed here)?
> 
> My original install had the amplifier mounted in an inverted fashion. Okay, not the best idea due to the amplifier's design. No biggie. I can correct the install. Now, mounted as it should be, adequate ventilation (for any amp I have ever used prior), I am still having issues.
> 
> Thanks


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Thanks, I will do that. I probably will not be able to do it until next weekend, but I will check. 

I have to wire up my relay so I can get a fan in there, so I will do it then.

Justin 






massiveaudio said:


> Hi Justin,
> 
> I would like to see if we can help troubleshoot this. Can you email [email protected] and let us know your voltage numbers from the RCA input and also the consistant voltage from the car to the power terminal of the NX4?
> 
> ...


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

8ohms poses a much lower load than 4ohm. If your VC is shorted, it's unlikely you would be able to play music for an hour before it goes into protection.
Keep in mind that even though your HU spec says 4V (or whatever it is) pre-out voltage, it IS NOT 4V all the time. The spec'd voltage is the maximum rms voltage your HU will put out at its max volume. Run pink noise and try to measure the voltage from your RCAs...it will not likely be anywhere near 4V at normal listening levels. Though peaks may hit above the spec'd rms voltage, the average power for musical content is actually quite low.
Zapco has the same problems with their AB mini-amps. Small package + AB efficiency = higher potential for heat issues. Zapco admits this. You can't defy physics. Try fans to keep it cool enough to not shutdown. Otherwise, that is the way the amp works. I highly doubt something is broken with it. Just physics coming into play (whether mfrs/users want to admit it or not).


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## galacticmonkey (Apr 28, 2010)

This is strange these people are having problems. I had 2 N4s for my subs and a NX4 for my tweeters, and I never once had the amps go into protect. I would play them under the seat of my truck (almost no ventilation at all) for 30 minutes full tilt (55/62 on my 880PRS) on a 100 degree day here in Florida and while they would get hot (obviously, any amp would), they never once went into protect for any reason at all.

In my experience these are built like tanks. I abused them by playing the crap out of my stereo under the roughest conditions for longer than I should have and they didnt give me even the slightest peep.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

So I wanted to post my findings this far...

I found out what was pushing into protection. It ended up being the external active crossover. The high-pass was sending out 3-4v, exactly what the HU was sending. The lows was sending out 6-7v! 

Once I matched the voltage out of the x-over, the amp has yet to shut down. And this is still without a fan on it. It does get warm, but not blazingly hot.

Thanks for your assistance with this! I am feeling more confident about using the other two in my install and a NX5 in a friends.

Justin


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## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

Hey Justin, is your NX5 mounted upside down? I forget who all had upside down mounted amps in this thread so figured since you had an issue and fixed it you were the one to ask.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

No, originally it was mounted at roughly a 90 degree angle. 

Even when the amp was laying flat, it would overheat to the point that I could not touch the amp for longer than a sec or two. Now it just gets warm on the verge of hot, but it has not shut down yet. I have been pushing them pretty hard during my 2-3 hour round trip commute so I am happy with them now...except now that one of the speaker terminal screws will not catch anymore unless I have a spacer between the terminal and the connector, but at this point, I have music so I am not complaining... 

I am going to re-mount it again to the original angle with a fan this time around and see how it works. I have a feeling it will be fine.


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## dutchschultz (Jul 27, 2011)

mines mounted upright and goes into protection anytime i put the volume around 25 on my deck, it's not thaaaatt loud but when there's a lot of bass it shuts off, i have to power off and restart my car when this happens... what could that mean?


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## massiveaudio (Sep 10, 2009)

Can you check to see what your input voltage is from HU, EQ, Line Driver Etc...

You should stay below 4.5 Volts per amplifer and the closer you are to that 4.5 voltage the less the gain needs to be cranked on the unit. 

That would be my first guess if it is getting air flow and mounted upright. 

also of course a mixure of low impedance, high voltage can be something that would cause higher than normal heat. (is it getting hot or just shutting off?)

Feel free to email [email protected] for any trouble shooting tips or service questions. 

Thank you for your support~


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## papabearsc (Oct 2, 2010)

Add me to the list. After months and months of zero problems, both my NX2 and N3 are acting up now. Through the entire summer, with 95+ degree days, both amps mounted in a floor cubby hole in a Trailblazer SS hatch area, and being run HARD every day, no problems. 

Now that it cools off, both of my amps are going crazy. They don't even feel hot, but the NX2 will cut my front stage off for about 15 seconds if I crank the volume for more than 5 minutes. It's not hot, voltage is about 3.5-4 at RCA input from Pioneer AVIC X920BT and I am stumped. Then, the other day, out of nowhere, sub cut out as well. Went to amp cubby and it was not even warm to the touch. Killed power, cranked truck back up and all is well.

I don't understand these things. Really pissing me off.


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## massiveaudio (Sep 10, 2009)

papabearsc said:


> Add me to the list. After months and months of zero problems, both my NX2 and N3 are acting up now. Through the entire summer, with 95+ degree days, both amps mounted in a floor cubby hole in a Trailblazer SS hatch area, and being run HARD every day, no problems.
> 
> Now that it cools off, both of my amps are going crazy. They don't even feel hot, but the NX2 will cut my front stage off for about 15 seconds if I crank the volume for more than 5 minutes. It's not hot, voltage is about 3.5-4 at RCA input from Pioneer AVIC X920BT and I am stumped. Then, the other day, out of nowhere, sub cut out as well. Went to amp cubby and it was not even warm to the touch. Killed power, cranked truck back up and all is well.
> 
> I don't understand these things. Really pissing me off.


Please email us your entire set up so that we can help troubleshoot the problem(s) you are having. It really could be a number of things and since both units are acting up at the same time it is promising that it could be something minor causing the trouble. Please let us know more at [email protected]

Thank you,


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