# Audison Bit1.1, JBL MS8 or Zapco DSP6-sl with controller?



## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

I've got a JBL MS-8 in the closet and have access to a Audion Bit1.1 or Zapco DSP6-sl with controller.

Which do you think would work best?

Going 2 way maybe 3 way up front. sub in the rear. Not using ZAPCO DC amps.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I have not had a chance to use any of them yet........I am still in the debating proccess with these 3 as well. I can get the ms8 pretty cheap with my accomodation, and can get the bit-1 super cheap through a friends shop, not a clue about the zapco although heard that its similar to the ppi dcx-730 (software anyway?) and that was my fav. processor. It will be interesting to follow this debate/poll, good thread! (I hope it doesnt turn into the stinky toilet so many others have recently!)


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

if your goal is having total flexibility and control, then the audison would be my #1 choice. [from what you listed]
if you are looking for something to pretty much ''set and forget'' or having good sound , anywhere you sit in the vehicle, then ms-8 would be a logical choice. of course, using the c-channel and rearfill to take full advantage of the unit's capabilities.

the pioneer p99 is something to seriously consider,also.IMHO


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## s1monxsayz (Sep 17, 2010)

Right now i have a rockford 360.2 running oem integration. It is a piece of crap and I don't like it. I'm running hertz 165 xl right now active using the cross over on my audison lrx 6.9. Right now I am looking to run a 3 way active to the front. Would you guys suggest that I get a bit.one or other dsp? Or just swap out the headunit to a kenwood dnx9960 and use the cross over on my amp to run the 3 way.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I have always had great results running active via amps but it can be a pita tuning but once its set.........your good! Obviously you loose some flexibility and other options but that is what I am doing now. Pretty good options via the dnx!


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

Bitone.1.. I had a guy come by my house and have the MS8 swapped out for the bitone.1 and within a week had me put the bitone right back in.... He must have liked my tuning better... 
Flexablity Bitone.1 or Zapco... Depends on how many channels, amplifiers, and lastly room for remote... Zapco's remote is a bit HUGE for me...

MS8 is for the lazy people.......  

J/K

Ms8 has its advantages...... 5.1, rears and automatic tuning.... 
BTW Real men like to fill the rear....


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Wow DAT, I just had the same question myself today. I am reading all the potential issues with using a MS-8 (that I have in my closet) with my particular vehicle and wondering if maybe the bit1.1 or DSP6 would be a better choice? I will be interested in seeing the results of this Thread!

I guess one of the other things that I found a little interesting was I really thought with the capabilities of the MS-8 and the auto tune, I really thought more people would have cleaned up at Finals in competition. Didn't really seem to be that way. What is that saying about the MS-8, anything?


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

Yeah, I figure I'll go MS-8 ( in my closet stash also ) or trade something for a Bit 1.1.


Not sure how many were using the MS-8 and others using the BitOne.1 I know a few used the Zapco and always do well in MECA competition.


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## basher8621 (Feb 21, 2009)

My vote went to the bitone. I own one and LOVE it. I have no personal experiece with the MS-8 or DSP6 but I get everything I need from my bitone.


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

If only competitions were just about sound....


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

matdotcom2000 said:


> If only competitions were just about sound....


I do understand that and hear you there .


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## radarcontact (Oct 28, 2010)

The thing that I dislike about (almost) ALL of them is the fact that you can no longer use your OEM volume controls. I like knobs versus up/down buttons, hate remote controls, and I really like having the steering wheel controls functional. I'm picky! 
The only one that I have found that allows OEM volume is the Alpine PXE-H660. Well, the MS-8 says you _can_ use your OEM, but sound quality suffers. Not a good option after dropping $700-$800 to improve SQ.


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

You can use your own volume on all three I believe.... Just have to set the volume on the processor first.


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## basher8621 (Feb 21, 2009)

Thats what I do. Set my bitone volume then use my HU volume knob.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

matdotcom2000 said:


> You can use your own volume on all three I believe.... Just have to set the volume on the processor first.


Correct!


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## radarcontact (Oct 28, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> Correct!


Well, sorta...(?)
Here's JBL's response:

"Hi Darrin,

When listening at a level below that point when the system said OK, it is possible that you will hear noise in your system. When listening at levels above that point, it is possible that you will get into distortion levels. But to be honest, unless you go way below or way above, it is likely that you won't hear any difference at all.

I hope this helps."

Sounds like a politician! Lol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

radarcontact said:


> The thing that I dislike about (almost) ALL of them is the fact that you can no longer use your OEM volume controls. I like knobs versus up/down buttons, hate remote controls, and I really like having the steering wheel controls functional. I'm picky!
> The only one that I have found that allows OEM volume is the Alpine PXE-H660. Well, the MS-8 says you _can_ use your OEM, but sound quality suffers. Not a good option after dropping $700-$800 to improve SQ.


The pxe is no different then any other processor when it comes to controlling volume from the head unit. They are all susceptible to things like undesired volume dependent EQ, lower S/N ratio when attenuating on a noisy head unit, and unknowingly clipping the processor's inputs because there is no exact point with music where you'd know for sure clipping is happening.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

t3sn4f2 said:


> All those processors are the same when it comes to how OEM headunits sound when using their volume control, even the PXE. What they are telling you there is that if you raise the volume too much, you will clip the input of the processor. If you lower it too much, the signal will drewl deeper into the head units own fixed analog noise.


exactly! Which means.......
If you own it, you should know how to use it. If you know how to use it, that wont be an issue. No need to revert to a processors (that you mentioned) volume knob if the settings are remotely correct!


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## ChristianM (Jun 15, 2009)

i like the bitone.1 personally, ive used the zapco system on the DC amps but the bitone has more flexability and tuning capabilities....that being said, running symbalink to the zapco is ****ing amazing for the noise floor lol


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

ChristianM said:


> i like the bitone.1 personally, ive used the zapco system on the DC amps but the bitone has more flexability and tuning capabilities....that being said, running symbalink to the zapco is ****ing amazing for the noise floor lol


I am currently using C2ks with symbilink with a bitone.1 FREAKIN LOVING IT!!!!! I must say the c2ks are the best pound for pound amp I have ever used... They make 50 watts sound like 100 easy... Not to forget the dynamics of the amp... BTW I have owned jl hds, arc se, helix, and Tru Bullets....


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## Shocks (Oct 1, 2008)

I thought the Bit one could not take a balanced signal?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Shocks said:


> I thought the Bit one could not take a balanced signal?


The bit1's inputs don't have anything to do with the unbalanced outputs running into symb transmiter input and on to the amps.


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## tornaido_3927 (Nov 23, 2009)

ChristianM said:


> i like the bitone.1 personally, ive used the zapco system on the DC amps but the bitone has more flexability and tuning capabilities....that being said, running symbalink to the zapco is ****ing amazing for the noise floor lol


I personally thought that the Zapco's tuning capabilities were better, you can only go as high as 24db slopes but rather than having a set 31 band graphic EQ you instead get 10 bands per channel of parametric EQ, +/-18db levels with Q of up to 9.00 (yes, two decimal places) and the ablility to choose an EQ type of peaking, or a high or low shelf, which I find so so useful!

My 0.02c


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## sniper5431 (Dec 8, 2009)

My only complain of the DSP-6 is you can't use Windows 7. Finding a laptop to interface with it that uses XP still is a pain. Other than that. I am quite happy with it. In my eyes the controller is useless on it.


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## Heath (May 3, 2009)

Audison Bit One all the way.


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## Jboogie (Mar 13, 2007)

I prefer the AudioControl DQL-8 to all listed above. The only reason i removed it and went with the Bitone.1 was for the time correction. If AudioControl would incorporate Time Alignment there would be no argument.


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## SVOEO (Nov 2, 2009)

I was in this place a short time ago. Seemed like the Bit-1 was the most "tweaky", the Zapco for "tweak and forget" and the MS-8 for "I don't want to deal- just make it sound great."


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## PaulD (Nov 16, 2006)

Jboogie said:


> If AudioControl would incorporate Time Alignment there would be no argument.



That will never happen (at least in our lifetime), they are old school


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

Here is my personal experience. I have used both the ms8 and the bitone.1 but in different cars. My most recent installl, the ms8 sounded greatttt in my car. The vocals and highs were spot on. but one thing the ms8 lacked was dynamics in the low end. no matter how much i try to tuned it in, you were just missing that midbass attack. There are a few others who would agree with me on this. Today i actually got off my lazy butt, and put the bitone in. WOW what a difference. My dyns esotar2 650 never sounded like that before. The midbass attack was amazing. The system overall was muchh more dynamic and the attack was phonomenal. Of course the midrange and highs were raw, not as good as the autotuned ms8, but i feel with an rta and a few weeks, i can get it just as good if not better than the ms8. With that being said, the ms8 will be for sale. I am now considering the bitone.1 or the zapco dsp6 for the car. I am leaning more towards the zapco tho. Hope that helps DAT.


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## voodoosoul (Feb 7, 2010)

radarcontact said:


> The thing that I dislike about (almost) ALL of them is the fact that you can no longer use your OEM volume controls. I like knobs versus up/down buttons, hate remote controls, and I really like having the steering wheel controls functional. I'm picky!
> The only one that I have found that allows OEM volume is the Alpine PXE-H660. Well, the MS-8 says you _can_ use your OEM, but sound quality suffers. Not a good option after dropping $700-$800 to improve SQ.


I have a bit one and I never touch the controller for volume I use my head unit volume or my steering wheel control volume.


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

sniper5431 said:


> My only complain of the DSP-6 is you can't use Windows 7. Finding a laptop to interface with it that uses XP still is a pain. Other than that. I am quite happy with it. In my eyes the controller is useless on it.


I use the DPN software on a Windows 7 laptop but its the 32-bit version. I hear there are issues with the 64-bit version.


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## matthewo (Jan 31, 2008)

i've been very happy with the bitone. i probably wont use any other processor now.


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## Hoot (Jan 18, 2008)

Jboogie said:


> I prefer the AudioControl DQL-8 to all listed above.


What do you like about it over the others? Just curious. 

Also, I realize the original poster isn't running an Alpine HU, but anyone with experience this the H701 stacks up well with these other processors?


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

SouthSyde said:


> Here is my personal experience. I have used both the ms8 and the bitone.1 but in different cars. My most recent installl, the ms8 sounded greatttt in my car. The vocals and highs were spot on. but one thing the ms8 lacked was dynamics in the low end. no matter how much i try to tuned it in, you were just missing that midbass attack. There are a few others who would agree with me on this. Today i actually got off my lazy butt, and put the bitone in. WOW what a difference. My dyns esotar2 650 never sounded like that before. The midbass attack was amazing. The system overall was muchh more dynamic and the attack was phonomenal. Of course the midrange and highs were raw, not as good as the autotuned ms8, but i feel with an rta and a few weeks, i can get it just as good if not better than the ms8. With that being said, the ms8 will be for sale. I am now considering the bitone.1 or the zapco dsp6 for the car. I am leaning more towards the zapco tho. Hope that helps DAT.


Curious as to who else has had the midbass issue with an MS-8?


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## jmerick (Nov 12, 2008)

I really like the bitone for its flexibiility but I hate that you cant use a Mac to tune it and the cheepo wire connectors.


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

Niebur3 said:


> Wow DAT, I just had the same question myself today.
> 
> Whats wrong with your setup now? i thought it sounded amazing. you going to be making a change?


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

kizz said:


> Niebur3 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow DAT, I just had the same question myself today.
> ...


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

very true. I wish my garage was heated. we need to catch up soon. been a while. did you keep the equipment out of the accord?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

SouthSyde said:


> Here is my personal experience. I have used both the ms8 and the bitone.1 but in different cars. My most recent installl, the ms8 sounded greatttt in my car. The vocals and highs were spot on. but one thing the ms8 lacked was dynamics in the low end. no matter how much i try to tuned it in, you were just missing that midbass attack. There are a few others who would agree with me on this. Today i actually got off my lazy butt, and put the bitone in. WOW what a difference. My dyns esotar2 650 never sounded like that before. The *midbass attack* was amazing. The system overall was muchh more dynamic and the attack was phonomenal. Of course the midrange and highs were raw, not as good as the autotuned ms8, but i feel with an rta and a few weeks, i can get it just as good if not better than the ms8. With that being said, the ms8 will be for sale. I am now considering the bitone.1 or the zapco dsp6 for the car. I am leaning more towards the zapco tho. Hope that helps DAT.



what exactly do you mean by midbass 'attack' ? I'm not sure I understand.


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## duckymcse (Mar 15, 2009)

If you understand EQ frequency range(20hz - 20khz), you will understand how to get great sound. Of course, you need a sound processor that allow you adjust each individual frequency (the more the better). Mid Bass frequency is bewteen 100hz to 250hz.
On my Bitone, here is how I EQ them:
100hz = 0 db
125hz = 0.6 db boost
160hz = 0.9 db boost
200hz = 0.4db boost
250hz = 0.4 db boost

Notice the extra boost in the 125-160hz boost. Those will give you a strong midbass sound. Also, properly installed speakers, type of speakers, size of speakers, time alignment and lots of deadening will help tremousdously.



bd5034 said:


> what exactly do you mean by midbass 'attack' ? I'm not sure I understand.


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## SVOEO (Nov 2, 2009)

If you are not using mics and an RTA to measure the output then you are operating blindly, goosing midbass to your personal preference on the tracks you are using at the moment. Not a sound approach- pun intended.

And that is not what attack means. Attack refers to the speed & agility of the reproduction chain in use, especially the drivers (e.g. woofers can get sloppy and loose sounding if used above their optimal range, where they have poor attack), not the level you are running (exaggerating) a certain frequency band at relative to the rest.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

SVOEO said:


> If you are not using mics and an RTA to measure the output then you are operating blindly, goosing midbass to your personal preference on the tracks you are using at the moment. Not a sound approach- pun intended.
> 
> And that is not what attack means. Attack refers to the speed & agility of the reproduction chain in use, especially the drivers (e.g. woofers can get sloppy and loose sounding if used above their optimal range, where they have poor attack), not the level you are running (exaggerating) a certain frequency band at relative to the rest.


Ah. So attack refers to the ability of a midbass driver to be highly articulate while playing forcefully?


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## oldturd (Oct 31, 2009)

No minidsp love?


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## SVOEO (Nov 2, 2009)

bd5034 said:


> Ah. So attack refers to the ability of a midbass driver to be highly articulate while playing forcefully?


Correcto.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

SVOEO said:


> Correcto.


I had no idea processing could muddle that up. I thought it was driver / install dependent?


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## SVOEO (Nov 2, 2009)

Reread my post- two separate comments. Attack independent of tuning, SQ not!


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

Ms-8 ease of use setup and easy to use
Bit.one more flexibility but need more skill to setup

Haven't installed the zapco

Problem is they both aren't truly awesome processors...just very good ones


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

Well if you do a stereo setup so far you would want the Bitone.1 and more control. If you want the best center channel 5.1 or 7.1 that gets to 90-95% in 10 minute tune grab the MS-8. 

but have positives. 

Still looking for a Bit1.1 to play with.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

SVOEO said:


> Reread my post- two separate comments. Attack independent of tuning, SQ not!


sorry I wasn't really specific - I was referring to the original post that prompted my question - the post by south syde, who said that the MS-8 killed his midbass attack. So from what you said, it's not possible for a processor to kill the "attack". Hm.


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

I've installed four (soon to be 5) ms-8's 
As far as midbass loss, I haven't experienced much loss. But I build cars with midbass with double the power as mid/tweet 

Plus sometimes you have to play with the phase of the speakers individually to optimize the autotune


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

bd5034 said:


> what exactly do you mean by midbass 'attack' ? I'm not sure I understand.


well, with the ms8 it sounded almost too blended... i could not feel the impact.. with the bitone i ccould feel the midbass in my chest..


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

SouthSyde said:


> well, with the ms8 it sounded almost too blended... i could not feel the impact.. with the bitone i ccould feel the midbass in my chest..


Couldn't you just boost the proper EQ bands on the MS8 and have the same "impact" as the Bit.1 you liked?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

SouthSyde said:


> well, with the ms8 it sounded almost too blended... i could not feel the impact.. with the bitone i ccould feel the midbass in my chest..


Hm. Were you able to see the frequency response in a before/after setting? Like on a RTA? I'm curious to see exactly what the difference is, because I'm also running a MS-8.


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## Hoot (Jan 18, 2008)

South east customz, is your vote for the MS-8? Apparently, you -- or your customers -- really like them. Are your midbass-heavy builds an effort to compensate for what you've experienced with the MS-8, or simply personal bias?


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

It's personal preference, even in sillier installs it's just what I like.
always better to have monster midbass. 
Without going into laundry list, IMO the situation of lack of midbass is probably manageable by xover point and tuning


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

I like BOTh units but have used the ms-8 due to it's easier out of box usefulness.
I'd really think a small small percentage of advance processor (Bit.one/pxa/3sixty/zapco) owners
Utilize their units full flexibility


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## SVOEO (Nov 2, 2009)

south east customz said:


> I'd really think a small small percentage of advance processor (Bit.one/pxa/3sixty/zapco) owners
> Utilize their units full flexibility


That's a good bet. The folks here are the top 10%, mostly, and still the majority don't use an RTA. A $2k system, really well-tuned, will typically blow away one at double the price with no or poor EQ, at least SQ wise. But boys like massive subwoofers and shiny metal boxes with lots of blinking lights- 

"It goes to 11!"


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

havinnoj said:


> Couldn't you just boost the proper EQ bands on the MS8 and have the same "impact" as the Bit.1 you liked?


No i could not... i talked to a former world champ who tried the ms8 and experienced the same problem... he ended up taking it out...


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## havinnoj (Sep 9, 2009)

SouthSyde said:


> No i could not... i talked to a former world champ who tried the ms8 and experienced the same problem... he ended up taking it out...


Interesting..


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## Hoot (Jan 18, 2008)

You guys reading the thread about the new Rockford processor?


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## radarcontact (Oct 28, 2010)

Hoot said:


> You guys reading the thread about the new Rockford processor?


Link??


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## radarcontact (Oct 28, 2010)

radarcontact said:


> Link??


Disregard...

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/news/templates/template.asp?articleid=346&zoneid=3


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

DSP6 > bitone > ms8.... will have a full review in product comparison soon..


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## chtaylor71 (Sep 26, 2009)

It looks like I made a good choice in going with the Bitone...it seemed to offer me the best flexibility for my needs


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## jlawson (Sep 11, 2010)

DSP6 better than BitOne? I have not listened to either unit but I am very interested in why you think so?

Thanks man.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

jlawson said:


> DSP6 better than BitOne? I have not listened to either unit but I am very interested in why you think so?
> 
> Thanks man.


depends... plus ALPINE, Zapco and a few others have new units coming out this year.

I personally like the bit one, then MS-8 over the DSP6... if you do only 2 way up front DSP will work but not 3 way... 

all have their plus sides.


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## rayheatfan (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm looking for bitone.1. They are hard to get in my area but I keep hearing nothing but good things now that everything is fixed.


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## St. Dark (Mar 19, 2008)

Rayheat, check out Blvd Customs across the bay from you in St. Pete. They tend to have them on hand.

As to the quality of it - as others have stated, it's HIGHLY dependent on the person twisting the knobs (or clicking the mouse, these days...*L*)
Whatever you use, make sure the person tuning it (yourself or whoever) is competent.


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## chtaylor71 (Sep 26, 2009)

I love my Bitone as well..,my complaint is the windows based software. It's a joke trying to get your windows 7 machine to see the Bitone. Once over that hurdle it's good overall!


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## xpsvwino (Mar 29, 2010)

Anyone able to operate Bit-1 software on a Mac with VMware?

Thanks,
G


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## flipnap (Feb 14, 2011)

chtaylor.. what was the issue with win7 and the bitone?


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## chtaylor71 (Sep 26, 2009)

flipnap said:


> chtaylor.. what was the issue with win7 and the bitone?


For the issue is each time I try to connect to the bitone, it does a sync process and it fails, then I have to restore the bitone to factory, run the test disc, then reload my settings file. Maybe Im missing a step when Im finalizing the data to the bitone, and or syncing but its a pain. Im also using a macbook pro using windows 7 via bootcamp. So my issue maybe due to that and not Win 7. Im going to buy a netbook just for the bitone to see if that solves the issue for me.


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## flipnap (Feb 14, 2011)

holy cow, what a pain! yeah get a lil netbook and give it a shot.. bootcamp could very well be the issue.. thanks for the reply. im bout to pick up a bit one tomorrow.


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## hvacguy (Jul 4, 2009)

Hey guys:
I have a quick question and would appreciate any help I can get. I've briefly read through the Bit One's manual onlilne and need to know if I can go 3 way active up front and sub in the rear. I have a Kenwood Excelon 9940. It has front,rear,sub, and center outputs. I wasn't sure if it summed inputs or what.
Thanks


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## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

hvacguy said:


> Hey guys:
> I have a quick question and would appreciate any help I can get. I've briefly read through the Bit One's manual onlilne and need to know if I can go 3 way active up front and sub in the rear. I have a Kenwood Excelon 9940. It has front,rear,sub, and center outputs. I wasn't sure if it summed inputs or what.
> Thanks


3-way active front + sub + rear is 9 channels and the BitOne only has 8 channels of output so no you can't do it with just a BitOne unless you are using another amp with built in crossover to expand on the number of channels available. You still wouldn't get full active control in that configuration though.


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## hvacguy (Jul 4, 2009)

Hello:
I only want 3 way active upfront plus sub channel. I meant it would be in the rear of the car. Sorry for the confusion. I believe I only need to run one set of full range pre amp outputs to the Bit One.


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

hvacguy said:


> Hey guys:
> I have a quick question and would appreciate any help I can get. I've briefly read through the Bit One's manual onlilne and need to know if I can go 3 way active up front and sub in the rear. I have a Kenwood Excelon 9940. It has front,rear,sub, and center outputs. I wasn't sure if it summed inputs or what.
> Thanks


Yes, you can operate a 3-way front stage and sub with the Bit One.1. You only need to use 1 pair of analog outputs from your Kenwood into the Bit One.1, and then set up your output channels, crossovers, etc. through the Bit One. If your Kenwood has a digital output you definitely want to use that for playback.


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## hvacguy (Jul 4, 2009)

Thanks:
I see you run a Bit One that has been modified. What exactly did they modify?


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

hvacguy said:


> Thanks:
> I see you run a Bit One that has been modified. What exactly did they modify?


I will be posting a thread about this in the next few days, so keep an eye out for it. I don't want to get into the details in this thread.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

I love the flexibility of my B1, but I have a little Denon home theatre system with Audessy (sp?) eq that I use off my PC and its really amazing sounding at all volume levels. One of the features I thought might make the MS8 a standout would be its ability to adjust the output of those frequencies that the human ear hears differently at different output levels on the fly. Honestly, I'd kill to get the nice output my home system has at all volume levels in my car... and yes, I've tried the dynamic eq but it doesn't seem to work the same regardless of how I set it.

Can anyone give me the short story of why they don't like the MS8 in relation to the B1 for a non-surround, front stage based system? I don't understand why JBL decided to put amplifiers in the MS8 for one, and it seems like they focused too much on the surround aspects for most DIYMA folks, but it still seemed like it had a nice combo of features for all users. Plus, a good auto-tune system is priceless imho - I've been struggling to get the perfect tune for years and its annoying as hell, since I don't live near anyone who could point me in the right direction (and yes, I use an RTA).

The MS8 thread is just too freaking huge to be useful anymore, so any input here or in a PM would be appreciated!

Don't forget B1 users, if you use a digital source that doesn't send a constant carrier signal, you'll have a noise issue that is only really curable by getting their SFC device for an added expense. I got mine at no charge, but I heard they were going to be expensive.

Thanks
Less - aka Jim


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## underdog (Jul 5, 2011)

When will the RF360.3 be out?
I guess it will take some time for all this to play out.


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## kmarei (Nov 13, 2009)

SouthSyde said:


> Here is my personal experience. I have used both the ms8 and the bitone.1 but in different cars. My most recent installl, the ms8 sounded greatttt in my car. The vocals and highs were spot on. but one thing the ms8 lacked was dynamics in the low end. no matter how much i try to tuned it in, you were just missing that midbass attack. There are a few others who would agree with me on this. Today i actually got off my lazy butt, and put the bitone in. WOW what a difference.


I agree 100%
believe it or not
I've had logic 7 disabled lately
And I have active processing disabled too
So right now I, only using it as a crossover
I think it sounds better now
The main advantage of the ms-8 is it raises your soundstage to above the dash
Bur the pice you pay is losing a large segment of your mid bass


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## SVOEO (Nov 2, 2009)

less said:


> I love the flexibility of my B1, but I have a little Denon home theatre system with Audessy (sp?) eq that I use off my PC and its really amazing sounding at all volume levels. One of the features I thought might make the MS8 a standout would be its ability to adjust the output of those frequencies that the human ear hears differently at different output levels on the fly. Honestly, I'd kill to get the nice output my home system has at all volume levels in my car... and yes, I've tried the dynamic eq but it doesn't seem to work the same regardless of how I set it.
> 
> Can anyone give me the short story of why they don't like the MS8 in relation to the B1 for a non-surround, front stage based system? I don't understand why JBL decided to put amplifiers in the MS8 for one, and it seems like they focused too much on the surround aspects for most DIYMA folks, but it still seemed like it had a nice combo of features for all users. Plus, a good auto-tune system is priceless imho - I've been struggling to get the perfect tune for years and its annoying as hell, since I don't live near anyone who could point me in the right direction (and yes, I use an RTA).
> 
> ...


Yeah- Audissey is amazing when done right. JBL was looking to keeping stock speaker locations and few consumers would ever consider REMOVING speakers from the system (more=better), thus many small built-in amps to drive all those stock locations in most upscale cars (most would use external amps for fronts, obv.) IMHO, the best surround implementations are better than the best stereo, but there are fewer of them. Surround better able to overcome the limitations of the acoustic environment (why we need Audissey Mobile).


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## akelu (Feb 1, 2010)

The apparent loss of mid-bass with the MS-8 is a software glitch in matching the level of the sub to the midbass.

Theres two ways to workaround this.

a) Setup the sub as a front low. Everything will still function as normal. One thing to keep in mind is you must set the gains on the sub a bit higher during the sweeps.
b) Set low as the sub highpass to midbass lowpass, and send them on one channel to an amp, split it at the amp with the crossover.

The bug is currently being investigated and hopefully a firmware patch will be out soon, i use the first workaround above and i have AMAZING midbass. Crossed over at 80hz with a 6.9" drive in the door, front wave fully seperated from rear wave, it *SLAMS* hard and clear. Can feel the air on my leg from the midbass. I'm using a 2-way front.

I listen to heaps of electronic music where mid-bass is essential, Setting up the ms-8 with the subwoofer set as sub in alot of cases can cause this issue.

It's a bit hard to find that in the ms-8 megathread, but i've read it all (took a while) and thats how you fix it.


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## underdog (Jul 5, 2011)

If you are going to run Zapco amps.
Using sybilink.
Zapco DSP6-sl with controller


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

I have a damn good DSP 6 with some extra goodies, also have a 6-8 calling my name


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## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

Im a huge bit.1 fan it does a ton, infact it does a lot of things that people dont think it does. But, if you already have an ms8 I would just stick with that. Its still a great piece, and for 99% of the people out there its more than enough.


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

i like capacitors and inductors... screw that digital ****!


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## _Nomad_ (Dec 11, 2012)

underdog said:


> If you are going to run Zapco amps.
> Using sybilink.
> Zapco DSP6-sl with controller


That's the rout I was originally going to take, but the city was going to charge me property tax on those Zapco amps because they are so huge!

BTW, is the MS-8 still the go-to processor for the folks who want their systems processed before they are eligible for Social Security?


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Seeing that the thread is already bumped by someones vote........Of the three, I would choose the Bit1. You get 31 bands of geq per driver with 0.3 db resolution. TA is in 0.02 ms steps. 

The MS8 doesn't give manual TA a deal breaker for a tweaker like me. Eq is limited to 31 bands a side not per driver resolution is +/- 1db, ok but not great for fine tuning.

The Zapco gives 9 bands of PEQ per driver. Imho 31 bands GEQ > 10 bands PEQ particularly when trying balance L/R at 1/3 oct. Again like the MS8 eq resolution is in 1 db steps.


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## TheDavel (Sep 8, 2006)

Dead thread!

BitOne if you actually want it to sound good without reading the million page thread dedicated to the ms-8... For a set it and forget it solution, you seem to have to know a ton of info not covered in the manual to get it to work for your application... Even then, it is still limited by way of comparison. As for the Zapco, it's pretty obvious that in isn't quite on the same level as the other 2.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

As far as eq goes, the advantage that zapco has is that the all of the eq bands and q are adjustable for each channel. For me that makes it super flexible. On the downside it can only adjust in 1db increments I believe.


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## groberts (Dec 14, 2010)

teldzc1 said:


> As far as eq goes, the advantage that zapco has is that the all of the eq bands and q are adjustable for each channel. For me that makes it super flexible. On the downside it can only adjust in 1db increments I believe.



The Bit-One has 31 band adjustable EQ that can be accessed and set via PC interface? Perhaps not parametric where you can set the Q for each channel, but should be quite effective. and you can establish up to four separate EQ curve as presets as well. (I think?)


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## shibbydevil (Jul 2, 2010)

I can't comment on the zapco but I have messed with a bitone and an ms8. The ms8 you could set and forget and be done with because you can't really tweak it all that much. Read the zillion page thread. The bitone I have never stopped tuning. So... That could be a positive or a negative. Just my two cents. 

Ryan


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

matdotcom2000 said:


> BTW Real men like to fill the rear..


If you don't mind, I'll just take your word for that and not experience it for myself


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