# 3rd-gen 4Runner/Taco doors.. Interested?



## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

This Fall I have a road trip coming up and decided the tunes in the new 4Runner(RIP, old 4Runner... you died before your time  ) were decidedly lacking... I'd been planning the build since Spring but Summer came early here in HotLanta so gear had been accumulating on the shelf in the basement. I had the Focals I'd bought here, the P800 I'd bought from Marc at Sound Sensations and the MCC404M from the old truck...

So I ordered an amp kit and a pair of interconnects from Darvex, a couple of Dynamat door kits from Amazon and another from SS and and I was ready for a quick'n'dirty install. I didn't have time to make new baffles so I jigsawed some rings for the mids out of scrap Big Ernge oak ply. Nasty crap but it was what I had on hand. Sound was decent, lots better than the Kenwood HU I'd been running with the stock speakers.

Jump to this month, Marc had a tent sale and I couldn't believe what he offered me for a price on the P99... So now that's installed and all of a sudden the Focals don't sound so good... So I come back here and see HiFiAudioGuy34 has a set of the Hertz 165XLs for sale so I jump on that...

Here's a shot of the doors with the Hertzs installed on the ghetto rings:









The panels don't have nearly enough opening to cover the 6.5s:









and they won't close up on the front side anyway.

So I eventually figure out that I have to get the drivers out past the panels and I know less than diddly about FG, so I decide to build some baffles, cut some rings and wrap them in carpet to match the panels. I'm a woodbutcher from 'way back so that seems to me like the easiest option...

When I mounted the Hertz drivers I had a random thought of doing this so I made a pattern of the plastic 'Yota baffles:









First step is to yank the panels, clean them up and deaden them. I start with this:









And wind up with this:









That's about as far as I can go tonite, it's been a long day and I have to be up early tomorrow...

If you're interested, postand I'll follow up. If this is old hat then I won't waste my time.

TIA for your feedback,
Bill


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## adhumston (Mar 1, 2009)

I for one want to see the subwoofer install! 

If it's not to much work to get back into your doors you could try spacing your window track back a bit. Probably won't get you much, but it may be enough. I'll have the same issue with my 1st gen Tacoma if i decide to use the HATs or Hertz in it, though I just picked up a 720PRS set for a good price, so I'll probably just run them.

Looking good so far!


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

Looks good so far.


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

OK, I got two replies and I'm a post 'Ho so here goes:

Aaron, the sub install is on the middle burner, right now it's booming away beautifully in the test cab:










I'm thinking I'll do a glass back(Damn, more **** to buy!), shrink the depth back a little past the wheel well, extend it to the front over the well enough to get the volume back, fab it out of the Baltic birch and wrap it in carpet. Pretty soon it'll have a home worthy of its heritage... Definitely befor I head West in August.

So where am I?(Getting old sucks ) Oh yeah, starting the baffles. Traced the pattern onto some 3/4 ply, did the jigsaw thing and some sanding(no pics, my bad) and cut out some rings:










I used the Festool router to cut the outsides then discovered that the trammel arm wouldn't shorten up enough to cut the inside so I dragged out the drill press and the General fly cutter and finished them up.There was a lot more sawdust to clean up but it was a helluva lot quieter and faster so I think I'm gonna forget about the router next time I have to do this.You might notice that a couple of the rings were cut to a smaller ID than the rest, it's because the stock baffle had some straight sides that I'll have to do some contouring to so I can match the sheet metal in the doors.

Next step is gluing the first set of rings onto the baffles:










Since they're undersized inside:










I hack off most of the excess with the jigsaw:










and used my antique B&D router with a flush-trim bit to clean up the excess:










and figure out that I should have smoothed out the jigsaw cuts on the baffle before I glued the rings on.  So it's into the file drawer to drag out the necessities and clean up two layers of ply instead of one:










After cleaning up the mess I do a 1/8" roundover on the backs, the inside opening and what the router can get to on the front just to knock the sharp edges down:










TBC...

Bill


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

Now it's time for the fun part, making a smooth transition from a radius on the ring into the straight lines of the baffle. I don't want to trash out the nice roundover I just made on the inside of the opening so I scribe a line about 3/16" in. I've already traced the inside diameter of the final rings on the outside, now it's just a matter of connecting the two:










After a few minutes of sawing here are the results:










The next step is to rough out the contour with a chisel, here's a start:










I'm basically using the saw kerfs as a guideline, chiseling down to them as I go but doing my best to not eliminate them. They're going to be my guidelines for the final rasping and filing.

Finished product after chiseling:











The final result after using the round SurForm, assorted rasps and files:










A nice, easy transition from a radius to multiple straight lines, no sharp edges or flats to interfere with the back wave...

Tomorrow, the install. If anyone's interested...

HTH,
Bill


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

why not just buy a router and get it over with O_O


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

eviling said:


> why not just buy a router and get it over with O_O



lol


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

eviling said:


> why not just buy a router and get it over with O_O



O_O,,,,, Damn, I thought I had enough routers already, guess I was mistaken...










But I'd be more than willing to spring for a 12-pack if you'll come over and show me how I'd use one to do the contouring without gouging out something that didn't need gouging(like a finger or three).... 

TIA,
Bill


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

*OK, I started this and now I'm gonna finish....*

OK, the baffles are done, now it's time to figure out how to mount them. I use the pattern to locate the mounting holes, use the drill press and drill them for a #10 screw. 3 of the lower 4 screws hit the rings so I chuck up a Forstner bit to give me some clearance:










I use the same bit to hog out a channel for the tweeter wire:










Then a quick test fit to make sure everything fits, I thought I might be bumping on the filler block at the front but it works out OK:










You can see the sheet metal intruding into the cavity so I scribe it out with the scratch awl, drag out the jigsaw and start hacking away. I finally figure out aviation shears work better,:










A quick try and I'm happy with the results so it's time to seal off the mounting surfaces(I use a mastic made for metal roofing, it's thick, sticky, doesn't run and cheap:










To be continued...


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

*OK, I started this and now I'm gonna finish.... Part two*

Baffles installed, now I need to figure out how many rings to stack up to get out past the door panel and leave a little room for tilting up. So I hack out the grille in the panel, slap it on and grab a ruler:










It looks like 1-3/4" works so I'll go with three of the 3/4 rings. I grab the glue and the brad nailer and start stacking:










Then it's time to drill some mounting holes to attach to the baffles:










The longest screws I have hanging around are 2-1/2" so it's back to the drill press to countersink them enough to get a good bite:










Then a quick fit with the MLK 165s to make sure I don't overlap their mounting screws on the ring screws. I mark where I want them to go so I can level them when I mount the rings:










More to come,

Bill


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## tibug (Jan 22, 2011)

Looking good! I love 4runners, would be my #1 choice for a SUV, no doubt.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

billg71 said:


> O_O,,,,, Damn, I thought I had enough routers already, guess I was mistaken...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 lol i thought you were cutting out normal rings, didn't realise you were doing that. perhaps i should of read more :


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## TheDavel (Sep 8, 2006)

festool...router lift... lucky... and I thought I was the only one with a tool addiction... nice work


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

I'm confused, why not just pushed the window track out with some washers? I've done this many times on the 4Runner and Tacoma, picked up a lot more mounting depth, then trim down the area around the speaker grill on the inside of the door card


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## cakman (Jun 20, 2010)

I dont know what to drool over more, the Hertz stuff or the tools. lol man why do I have to pick two obsessions that are so expensive. Where to you live, i might have to "borrow" that festool router. lol


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

trojan fan said:


> I'm confused, why not just pushed the window track out with some washers? I've done this many times on the 4Runner and Tacoma, picked up a lot more mounting depth, then trim down the area around the speaker grill on the inside of the door card


trojan fan

I could have done that but still would have needed a ring to mount the drivers(mounting screws didn't hit) and the ring itself was holding off the door panel on the front. Besides, the stock baffles are plastic, not the sturdiest things and I wanted solid mounting for the Hertzs.

I also didn't like the speakers being behind the door panel, felt I had to be losing some definition. And I want to tilt the drivers up and back a little. So getting them out was my choice. I was inspired by jmelan's 2000 4Runner build, I've been drooling over that thread since I first found this forum a year-and-a-half ago. 



eviling said:


> lol i thought you were cutting out normal rings, didn't realise you were doing that. perhaps i should of read more :





TheDavel said:


> festool...router lift... lucky... and I thought I was the only one with a tool addiction... nice work





cakman said:


> I dont know what to drool over more, the Hertz stuff or the tools. lol man why do I have to pick two obsessions that are so expensive. Where to you live, i might have to "borrow" that festool router. lol



Thanks for the compliments, guys. As you can see, the tools weren't bought last month, I've been accumulating routers since the '80s. The Festools were a recent addition, they work great and best of all is the dust collection so I can work inside. I'm getting too old to be standing over a pair of sawhorses in the Georgia sun, it was either figure out a way to get inside without trashing the whole basement or just not work at all. The Festool stuff and my trusty Fein vac make that possible and I'm really enjoying being able to get back to woodworking.

Best to all and thanks for the feedback,
Bill


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

*Next: The install....*

OK, now it's time to put it all together. I want to be able to remove the rings and angle them on the bandsaw so first another layer of mastic for sealing:










Then the rings are attached with the long Kreg screws, using the speaker mounting holes I marked and a level so the logo on the drivers will be straight(OK, so I'm being picky now  ):










Now to mount the panel, tape it down tight and cut out the opening. I haven't used a Roto-Zip in years and years so I decide to cut out the inside first just to get a feel for the tool:











Continued....


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

*INstall, continued...*

Forgot about the 10-image limit... 

And I still manage to make a fair mess of the outside :blush: :










Not to mention throwing plastic chips all over the interior. More **** to clean up... 
But I've got about an inch sticking out at the top, a little more than I wanted but that'll give me plenty to work with when I take the rings off for tapering.

Here's everything back together and the Milles mounted:



















It took about 2-1/2 hours to do this door but I've got some practice, the drivers door is finished in a little over an hour:










And it sounds FAN-DAM-TASTIC!!! WOOOHOOO!!! :

I figure some of the difference is in the drivers, I replaced the 165XLs with the MLKs, but there's a lot more openness and clarity that I like to think came from just getting the drivers out from behind the door card. 

Still a lot of work to do, when the brown carpet comes in I'll pull the drivers, aim and bevel the rings and spray the whole thing with bed-liner before I wrap the carpet. And I've got to find some trim to wrap the ragged edges on the vinyl. 

I think I'll replace the grey Mille grills with the black HSK units, the grey just doesn't go with the brown interior. Or maybe just spray them to match...

So it'll be a while before the final installment, I've got a lot of work to catch up on.

Then I'm going to have to do some kicks for the XR3Ms that chefhow and Stereo_Luver have me convinced I can't live without.... 

Oh, yeah, the sub enclosure...

And the cover for the amps for the Yellowstone trip that'll have the back seats down and the cargo area covered with camping, fishing and camera gear the whole time...

Best,
Bill


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Looking good Bill!!!


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks, Howard! That's where it was when you heard it Saturday night, just ran through the car wash and vacc'd up the dust.

Good to meet you, looking forward to seeing you again next Sunday and spending some more time in that Volvo. Great tunes in there!

Bill


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## toylocost (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm trying to put someting together in my 4runner right now and I dont think theres any way I could bring myself to cut the door panels like that! I'll be watching this thread for sure.


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

Toylocost,

If you don't want to cut the doors, you can do like Trojan Fan suggested and space the window tracks out with some washers. I remember seeing a thread on that here somewhere. Then trim the ring on the back of the door card(my first post, photo #3), deaden the panel and give it a try.

On my first try I used a plywood ring on the stock baffle but the 6-1/2s were too big and ended up hitting the door panel where it curves back in at the front. I just went on but the door panel wouldn't close up at the front by about 1/2-5/8". I've been driving it like that since October and it didn't hurt anything, I just felt like I could do better...

Another thing you could try would be to make a reducer ring the same OD as the stock baffle and use 5-1/4 mids. You could offset the mounting hole for the drivers to the rear and contour the front with a rasp or grinder to fit the curve in the panel.

Depending on the drivers you might not need to fool with the window tracks at all. I had no problems with the track and the Focal 165s I was running before the Hertzs(on the 3/4" ring), I had to add a layer of mastic and an extra gasket to get clearance on the Hertz 165XLs. IIRC(and it's been a long time since I first worked on the doors) the stock baffle ring is smaller than the mounting circle on the 6-1/2 Focals(or the screw holes didn't line up) and I needed the ring for depth. At the time I didn't think about moving the track and the doors were sealed anyway.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, you just need to figure out how *you* want to go about it.

Let me know if I can help,
Bill


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

O_O,,,,, Damn, I thought I had enough routers already, guess I was mistaken...


I don't see a CNC table in there anywhere....LOL

Chuck


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

billg71 said:


> O_O,,,,, Damn, I thought I had enough routers already, guess I was mistaken...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't see a CNC table in there anywhere.....LOL

Chuck


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

stereo_luver said:


> I don't see a CNC table in there anywhere.....LOL
> 
> Chuck


No room, no $....   Spending all my money on car audio. 

Bill


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## HiFiAudioGuy34 (Mar 30, 2011)

Glad to see My MLK 165's put to good use. Nice install! Yeah I would spray the grills to match for sure!


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks, Long.

They ARE sweet! Today I ran the rings thru the bandsaw to tilt them up and in a little and wrapped them in the carpet. Mounted with the HSK-165 grilles, don't really care for the black. Next week I'll drag down to the local auto-body store and see if I can pick up some matching SEM paint.

I took some pix but it's late and I have to be up early, I'll post again tomorrow if I can get time.

Thanx again,
Bill


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

Bill will you be going to the Vinny?


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

wdemetrius1 said:


> Bill will you be going to the Vinny?


I'm gonna try my best. I have a reception at the gallery tonite but plan to get up early tomorrow and try to get there around 9:00-10:00.

You?


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

Yes. My plans are the same as you for tomorrow. I look forward to meeting you.


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

*Final, I'm done with the doors...*

Last week(just before the Vinny) I got some time to pull the rings, run them through the bandsaw to get some tilt and re-install. Here's the (almost) finished product.

Pulled the rings, made a quik'n'dirty jig to run them through the bandsaw:



















Wrapped them in carpet:









and put them back in, tilting them a little towards the rear:









Mounted them with the HSK 165 bars and grilles(ever see a monkey procreating with a football? Try holding all this **** together plumb and level while drilling pilot holes with your third hand...):


















But it all ended up OK, today I got some time to re-paint the Mille grilles B2B and got them in, too dark for for pics but they look a lot better(IMO). Now all that's left is to find a better color match in the SEM paint for the edge trim, paint it, pull the door panels and install.

Lot of work in hot times but the sound is more than worth the effort. 

Bill


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## toylocost (Jul 4, 2011)

Damn nice bandsaw! Want! I'm stuck with harbor freight for now


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## blueatlanta (Feb 10, 2011)

i guess im missing a post or something, but why would you need to hold it a certain way instead of using clamps and/or fiberglass.

not trying to point anything out, just wondering why this approach


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## Kryptoroxx (Jul 3, 2011)

Nice work! I have a 98 4runner that's getting an install when I get around to pulling everything out of storage. I like your approach as it will never move around on you. I personally did the window rail bend to get my cdt 6/5" in there but the mount was never very secure. This time in the 4runner I'm doing something else and I'm going to attempt to get the whole 3-way component set into the front doors. I'm not sure if I have the skill to do the angled approach like you did but I was thinking perhaps of using spacers behind the speaker into a mdf back panel to create the angle rather than a whole ring.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

hmm aren't you gonna glass that to the door pod?


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

eviling said:


> hmm aren't you gonna glass that to the door pod?



what's going on with the doors speakers, is that the finished look? what's going on with the gaps between the speakers rings and the door card?


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## billg71 (Dec 17, 2009)

Hey all, thanks for taking the time to comment!

Sorry not to have replied sooner but been busy lately. But to answer some questions:

blueatlanta, had I a brain I *would* have just clamped the ring to the baffles and used it for the pilot holes, would have been a lot easier than screwing the football. I'll plead heat exhaustion on that one... 

Kryptoroxx, thanks for the compliments. You could do the angles with spacers but you'll need to seal the gaps with something, maybe non-hardening clay? If you don't have access to a bandsaw it isn't hard to mark a short and long point on the rings and then use something thin but flexible(like a web belt) to wrap around it connecting the dots. Mark the line with a pencil and then make your cut with a jigsaw. It works, I used theat technique lots of times cutting round columns to length.

For the rest, I'm not gonna mess with fiberglassing pods. It looks easy enough to do but I have better things to spend time and money on than fg supplies and the labor. Besides, the truck's 9 years old with over 225,000 on it, I don't really think it'll help me on resale... 

But I did manage to get by the local SEM dealer and used his color chart to pick out a paint that doesn't match worth ****... Shot the trim rings with it, re-painted the Mille grilles black(their original color, bought them used) and it doesn't look quite as bad now. I picked up some wide door edging to trim the card with, just have to find a closer color match paint and I'll spray the edging, pull the cards to install and repaint the rings. Won't look nearly as ghetto then.

BTW, I took first in Mod Street at the Vinny with the setup, scores of 69/75.75/76.5. It sounds good...

Thanx again for your comments,
Bill


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## Kryptoroxx (Jul 3, 2011)

Here's another route that you could go although I'm not sure that it's what you're looking for. The interior fabric used for the seats is fairly common in Toyotas and it's thin as well. You could cut it to form and stretch it behind the rings and that would give you some pretty good interior matching....although it's kind of hard to disguise a speaker pod in a door unless you use fg. My 4runner has the exact same mileage on it almost lol. I was actually thinking about sealing the sides with fg using some fleece to make the form. Then on the ends I could caulk it lightly and that would probably hold with just a 6.5" speaker pressure. I like your idea though. It is more simple. I'm just not as skilled as you are with carpentry. I have access to a lot of wood working tools but if there's one thing that I've learned with carpentry its to learn about the tool before you go and turn it on lol. Nasty accidents can happen if you're not careful.


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