# Butt connectors - who uses these?



## Sine Swept (Sep 3, 2010)

Does anyone actually use a butt connector?

I am curious


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## [email protected] (Jun 20, 2012)

Sine Swept said:


> Does anyone actually use a butt connector?
> 
> I am curious


I can't solder for the life of me, so I use them. Never had any problems.


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## Vital (Feb 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I can't solder for the life of me, so I use them. Never had any problems.


+ 1.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

i try not to. but i do when soldering is too difficlt.
CC


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## shnitz (Jun 13, 2011)

I use them all the time. I like the ones that are heat shrink as well, just to keep out moisture, but I will readily admit that that's probably overkill for a behind-the-dash or in-cabin connection. If anything, I just strip twice as much wire as I need, and fold it in half back on itself to really ensure a strong connection. Do a quick pull test to make sure that the crimp is properly done on both wires, and you're good to go.

Some quick links I found via google:
Fuel Injector Connectors - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
Wiring question, solder or butt connectors? - Pelican Parts Technical BBS
Wire joins: solder vs. butt connector - R3VLimited Forums
VWVortex.com - Butt connectors or solder?!!
Wiring Splicing Tips? Solder vs Butt Connector - SR20 Community Forum - The Dash

As mentioned in a few of those links, the factory automotive wiring and aviation wiring all use butt connectors and require them for their mechanics. Good enough for me!


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

shnitz said:


> I use them all the time. ... If anything, I just strip twice as much wire as I need, and fold it in half back on itself to really ensure a strong connection. Do a quick pull test to make sure that the crimp is properly done on both wires, and you're good to go.


This is the same thing I do.


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## Vanlan (Jul 20, 2011)

I use them for permanent things quite often. 
However, on my HU's, I swap them out all the time, and often on the fly. Thus, there is a decent amount of time that I just go with the quick and dirty electrical tape for the harness. I know its not perfect, but gets the job done well enough.


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## shnitz (Jun 13, 2011)

Vanlan said:


> I use them for permanent things quite often.
> However, on my HU's, I swap them out all the time, and often on the fly. Thus, there is a decent amount of time that I just go with the quick and dirty electrical tape for the harness. I know its not perfect, but gets the job done well enough.


Eek, do you mean on your own car or for your customers' vehicles? Either way, are you saying that you just twist 2 wires together and use electrical tape to hold them together? That's a horrible idea. If it's for your own car why not just run down to Wal-Mart or look online somewhere cheap and buy yourself a few different adapters? Once you wire it up, it's universal anyway, for the most part. For example, Pioneer has a post-2010 and pre-2010 harness, but other than that, I can swap head units with impunity and not have to change the harness in my car; any post-2010 Pioneer headunit is just a few screws away. Less than $15 per brand headunit would buy me the same plug-and-playability for whichever I want, but I couldn't see myself needing more than one for Kenwood, Clarion, Alpine, and maybe JVC. If I were often swapping out head units in my car, this would save even more time as well, as I'd have every brand prewired up, with the adapters just hanging on my wall.

And if you're doing it to your customers' vehicles, well then, what can I say but I wish your shop luck in the future. Crimp connectors are about as fast as it gets, and doing that kind of shoddy connection for customers is not the way to get positive feedback from customers.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

shnitz said:


> Eek, do you mean on your own car or for your customers' vehicles? Either way, are you saying that you just twist 2 wires together and use electrical tape to hold them together? That's a horrible idea. If it's for your own car why not just run down to Wal-Mart or look online somewhere cheap and buy yourself a few different adapters? Once you wire it up, it's universal anyway, for the most part. For example, Pioneer has a post-2010 and pre-2010 harness, but other than that, I can swap head units with impunity and not have to change the harness in my car; any post-2010 Pioneer headunit is just a few screws away. Less than $15 per brand headunit would buy me the same plug-and-playability for whichever I want, but I couldn't see myself needing more than one for Kenwood, Clarion, Alpine, and maybe JVC. If I were often swapping out head units in my car, this would save even more time as well, as I'd have every brand prewired up, with the adapters just hanging on my wall.
> 
> And if you're doing it to your customers' vehicles, well then, what can I say but I wish your shop luck in the future. Crimp connectors are about as fast as it gets, and doing that kind of shoddy connection for customers is not the way to get positive feedback from customers.


 
Yes, it sounds like he's talking the TNT method... 


Quite honestly, IF you know what you are doing and twist the wires well enough and tape them TIGHTLY... TNT works

It's the fools that don't twist the wire tight and don't tape tight or use crap tape... 

I've never TNT'ed a harness myself, I learned to solder early, but I know my twists PRIOR to my solder would stand the test of time in the dash of a car... I just apply solder because it's a failsafe connection..


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

Nothing wrong with using butt connectors if they are crimped correctly. Considering that most speaker connections are made using a crimped on connector. I prefer solder just because I like to solder and it will never degrade or come apart. Get one of these.Ratcheting Crimp Tool For Insulated Terminals 360-642 Quite possibly the best tool I own. I crimped a 14ga terminal onto a wire and tested it by putting the terminal in a vise and pulling until it broke(the wire that is)


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## shnitz (Jun 13, 2011)

Spyke said:


> Nothing wrong with using butt connectors if they are crimped correctly. Considering that most speaker connections are made using a crimped on connector. *I prefer solder just because I like to solder and it will never degrade or come apart.* Get one of these.Ratcheting Crimp Tool For Insulated Terminals 360-642 Quite possibly the best tool I own. I crimped a 14ga terminal onto a wire and tested it by putting the terminal in a vise and pulling until it broke(the wire that is)


This is a myth. Read the links I posted above. The aviation and automotive industry mandate using crimps over solder, because crimping is very strong, and it's actually solder that comes apart over time (more common in aviation than automotive, but better safe than sorry). If you properly crimp, then it is the one that will never degrade or come apart. You can do a pull test to verify that your crimp is strong.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

shnitz said:


> This is a myth. Read the links I posted above. The aviation and automotive industry mandate using crimps over solder, because crimping is very strong, and it's actually solder that comes apart over time (more common in aviation than automotive, but better safe than sorry). If you properly crimp, then it is the one that will never degrade or come apart. You can do a pull test to verify that your crimp is strong.


 
This isn't Mill Spec work... 

This arguement/subject comes up 2-3x a year..


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

I solder. I only use butts for temp stuff and things I can't reach or are impractical to solder. I know I would have an issue if I tried to use butt connectors, but that's me. 
I just can't see having to pull the dash all apart to fix a loose wire behind the h/u.


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## shnitz (Jun 13, 2011)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> This isn't Mill Spec work...
> 
> This arguement/subject comes up 2-3x a year..


I'm not saying that everyone has to do mil-spec work for their car, I'm just refuting the assertion that soldering somehow lasts longer than crimping. Both will work equally well for in-cabin wiring work, but there is no basis to the idea that solder is stronger than crimps.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

The most important part of a quality crimp....besides the actual connector..... is the tool.

With a high quality connector that can take the force exerted from a proper crimp tool theres nothing wrong with this method.

And as mentioned a little extra can be inserted to fill in any gap giving a tighter fit.

Many times in an under dash location if the wire doesn't have much slack using a solder iron isn't a good idea anyway....you could lose an eye.

I had an alarm installed in my car back in my Tweeter days by the lead installer....before I was comfortable doing alarm installs..... and he used crimp connectors/heatshrink on all the wiring....never had a single issue in the 8 years that followed.

In the vehicles final days it was falling apart but the alarm and electrical was still in tip-top shape.


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## bgalaxy (Aug 18, 2006)

I always solder stuff I do for others. heatshrink, techflex. My trucks are always built, gutted, rebuilt. Night before build for a show and so on. So there is a good amount of butt connectors, twist n tape, and even a few wire nuts here and there. It's a good thing I can show my work in others cars because mine is the last one to use as a reference for my work


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## hpilot2004 (Dec 13, 2011)

Use them only for h/u connections only.


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## crispin (May 23, 2011)

I use them all the time - no problems here either.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

shnitz said:


> This is a myth. Read the links I posted above. The aviation and automotive industry mandate using crimps over solder, because crimping is very strong, and it's actually solder that comes apart over time (more common in aviation than automotive, but better safe than sorry). If you properly crimp, then it is the one that will never degrade or come apart. You can do a pull test to verify that your crimp is strong.


Like I said...As long as it is crimped properly. A crimped connection will last indefinitely. Both will last 50+ years which is fine for anything anyone here is doing unless someone is still bumpin a system in a model t. Crimps get a bad rap because some people don't do it right and then blame the connector or something. I've worked on stuff from the 30's and the solder is still in perfect condition. I sort of agree with you because solder joints on pcb's are prone to failure as a result of vibration or terminal movement. That's not really what we're talking about though.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I use them but only with a good for non-insulated connector crimp tool. I will not use an insulated crimp tool they don't always hold. Personally if I want a really good connection I use a wire nut. Every house in the country is wired with them for a reason. Yes they are ugly but they work, not real easy to use in a dash I typically use connectors or solder there.

I hardly ever twist & tape only, but have one interesting story about that. So I get this car starter maybe near 10yr ago for my car and go to install it. It says in big letters to wire it like instructed and never ever cut any of the car's wires, since they are ignition wires. It says strip them then poke the new wire through the middle and wind it around. So I do it and the connections seem good. Still have the car and it still works fine, did have to replace the remote once. After that I did do some HUs that way and left the entire factory plugs on with no problems.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

sqshoestring said:


> I use them but only with a good for non-insulated connector crimp tool. I will not use an insulated crimp tool they don't always hold. Personally if I want a really good connection I use a wire nut. Every house in the country is wired with them for a reason. Yes they are ugly but they work, not real easy to use in a dash I typically use connectors or solder there.
> 
> I hardly ever twist & tape only, but have one interesting story about that. So I get this car starter maybe near 10yr ago for my car and go to install it. It says in big letters to wire it like instructed and never ever cut any of the car's wires, since they are ignition wires. It says strip them then poke the new wire through the middle and wind it around. So I do it and the connections seem good. Still have the car and it still works fine, did have to replace the remote once. After that I did do some HUs that way and left the entire factory plugs on with no problems.


Check out the link from my first post. Seriously, they are some awesome crimpers. Shouldn't make much difference between ins and non ins. IDK i've always used ins and never had a failure using that tool.


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## Vanlan (Jul 20, 2011)

shnitz said:


> Eek, do you mean on your own car or for your customers' vehicles? Either way, are you saying that you just twist 2 wires together and use electrical tape to hold them together? That's a horrible idea. If it's for your own car why not just run down to Wal-Mart or look online somewhere cheap and buy yourself a few different adapters? Once you wire it up, it's universal anyway, for the most part. For example, Pioneer has a post-2010 and pre-2010 harness, but other than that, I can swap head units with impunity and not have to change the harness in my car; any post-2010 Pioneer headunit is just a few screws away. Less than $15 per brand headunit would buy me the same plug-and-playability for whichever I want, but I couldn't see myself needing more than one for Kenwood, Clarion, Alpine, and maybe JVC. If I were often swapping out head units in my car, this would save even more time as well, as I'd have every brand prewired up, with the adapters just hanging on my wall.
> 
> And if you're doing it to your customers' vehicles, well then, what can I say but I wish your shop luck in the future. Crimp connectors are about as fast as it gets, and doing that kind of shoddy connection for customers is not the way to get positive feedback from customers.


Woah, hold on man. I don't have a shop or anything. This is only on my own personal vehicle. I understand that its not at all ideal, but it has worked adequately for awhile. I never can seem to keep butt or crimp connectors on hand, and when i use them, I always end up cutting them back off in a week or three.
On the subject of harnesses, switching between an Alpine, Pioneer, a clarion recently, I don't see myself spending 45-60 bucks just to save some time or anything. What I do isn't the best solution, but it has worked without any hiccups.
However, if/when I work on someone else's vehicle (usually friends cars for fun), I always use butt connectors.


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

I never use them. Solder and heat shrink tubing is the only way to go. When I see butt connectors I view it as a 'hack job'.

>^..^<


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## afterthisnap (Jul 8, 2012)

I prefer to solder, but the butt connections have never done me wrong.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

Catman said:


> I never use them. Solder and heat shrink tubing is the only way to go. When I see butt connectors I view it as a 'hack job'.
> 
> >^..^<


I like your signatures.:2thumbsup:


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## thatvan (Aug 29, 2006)

shnitz said:


> This is a myth. Read the links I posted above. The aviation and automotive industry mandate using crimps over solder, because crimping is very strong, and it's actually solder that comes apart over time (more common in aviation than automotive, but better safe than sorry). If you properly crimp, then it is the one that will never degrade or come apart. You can do a pull test to verify that your crimp is strong.


I'm pretty sure the avation and I know for a fact that VW recommends using crimps. But all crimps are not alike. VW recommends using a Parallel Splice not a butt connector. A Parallel Splice crimps so that the two wires are touching each other. I have never had one fail. You will need to heat shrink the connection. Mouser sells them.


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

Spyke said:


> I like your signatures.:2thumbsup:



THANKS 

>^..^<


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## analogrocker (Aug 1, 2009)

sqshoestring said:


> Personally if I want a really good connection I use a wire nut. Every house in the country is wired with them for a reason. Yes they are ugly but they work, not real easy to use in a dash I typically use connectors or solder there.


I will admit, I used wire nuts for my remote turn on wires at one point, then I read over at bcae that wire nuts should not be used in an automotive environment due to vibration. So ever since I read that, I stopped using them.

As for using butt connectors, I prefer the closed end connectors since it's actually possible to remove the wires without damaging them by using pliers on the connector:


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I bought about a thousand butt connectors in different sizes and probably 12' of the good shrink wrap. Most of my stuff is done with cheap Home Depot insulated butt connectors but on this system I've been doing non insulated butt connectors, then solder and then heat shrink. I don't trust solder alone but I do trust butt connectors alone so given only one choice it will be butt connectors. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to have both butt connectors and solder and heat shrink.


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

I can solder and have used it to repair MAF harnesses,etc on vehicles but typically like to use closed end or heatshrinking connectors on my own DIY car audio. On my Pioneer 860 that I just installed in my work van, the speaker wiring connections are different for STD and 3 way mode so I used bullet crimp connectors so that I can simply swap the speaker leads around instead of cutting and recrimping....

And those closed in clear connectors, I tried using pliers to open them up when and either had to forcefully pull them off or cut them where needed. Those suckers are light pitbulls!


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## TwoDrink (Aug 26, 2009)

I solder as much as possible and use crimp connectors when I have to. All connections are heat shrinked and groups of connections are taped. Wire nuts are for solid core wires which should never be used in automotive applications imo.


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## Loto_Bak (Jun 21, 2012)

A Crimped connection is an excellent way to connect your radio IMO. 

I come from the marine industry and I must add another +1 to crimping.
They are MECHANICALLY a much stronger connection than soldering.

Vibration is the enemy of most connections in auto/marine/aviation, not the resistance or corrosion protection properties of the connection. 
(In marine we use heat shrink butt connectors and tinned wire to counteract corrosion) 

Heatshink does relieve some mechanical strain (it stretches), but is FAR weaker than a good crimp. 
That said... I will often crimp, then solder to eliminate air from reaching my connections in high corrosion areas.

ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) standards on electrical:

"Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit.”11.16.3.7."


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## jonbuilds (Jul 8, 2012)

First, let me say that for my own installs, I solder and shrink. I know how to solder, and I have time to do it, and always have had enough access to allow it on my installs (all personal ones since 1987, BTW, I don't do this for a living any more). 

Consider the economics of crimp vs. solder. If you have the right crimp tool and the right connector, and have confidence in your skills, you are left to consider the amount of time per connection. For shops that make hundreds of connections per day, the difference in labor cost (productivity) between the two methods is significant.

I have seen more crimp failures over time (by others) than solder/shrink failures, but I think that had to do with the craftsmanship in the first place. Application, location, quality of connector, type/gauge of wire, over/under crimp pressure all impact the long-term reliability. I have some materials engineer friends who might argue about what you do to the copper strands when you crush them against a dissimilar metal. 

It's possible to do a crappy solder job, too. In my experience, the guys using solder connections are already more interested in the details of the install. If the same guy uses a crimped connection, my guess is he'll do it right and it will last a long time.

Jonathan


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## KSUWildcatFan (Jun 11, 2006)

I know I shouldn't, but I do. I too do not like soldering. ;(


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