# AMG C63S (s205 wagon)



## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So just got a 1 year old Merc wagon with Burmester, and kinda felt it somewhat lacking, so busted out the UMIK-1 and REW (set to front focus):










Seems to have a big dip at 180 to 400Hz, not altogether surprising given the layout (although mines a wagon, assume it's the same):











1" Tweeter 4" Mid in each front door with shared 50w chan
4" Mid in the dash with 50w chan
1" Tweeter 4" Mid in each rear door with shared 50w chan
More 4" Mids in the rear shelf
Two 8" Woofers under the dash in the bulkheads
Not after doing a mega build, open to thoughts and suggestions. Have read a blog from someone else who worked with this car, and read that they set the mid to -10 (and raised an eyebrow) but can see why he did, to pull down the mids to match the dip.

Thoughts?


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Scope of build in EQ


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## pika_ (Feb 18, 2007)

You can try to use the three bands to flatten it out. somewhere around +6,-6,-3 ?


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So I have found B-2 M-7 T-0 remove the 1k 'telephone voice' effect.

Decided to try the new focal drop in kit, otherwise it was a very slippery slope into MOST150-to-SPDIF + DSP + AMPs + ESOTAR 3 way + god knows










It looks to be pretty linear to 100hz, but lets see how they perform vs the stock generic german 'premium' drivers


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> Scope of build in EQ
> View attachment 297366
> 
> View attachment 297365
> ...


The response in your last plot (dark Blue line) should sound half way decent. Maybe a little shrill at 1KHz. What are your impressions?

BTW: That car is screaming for a full blown upgrade. The first time I have ever seen an OEM do a kick panel / foot well subwoofer solution. I'll bet you Focal Utopia M midbass, midrange, and tweeters would nearly be drop in replacements. And with your 3D modeling skills making the adapters you'll need would be easy.

Common, you modified your 911. You need to do your daily driver 😈.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Yeah the 1k 'old telephone' style vocals sounds artificial, especially with so much missing 150-450.

I'll start with the focals, they do a drop in sub but I don't think it needs that; rather a mid-bass in the floorwell and a proper sub in the boot.

I'll document the progress tho


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> So just got a 1 year old Merc wagon:
> View attachment 297362
> 
> 
> Thoughts?


The steering wheel is on the wrong side for you 😁


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Ha yes

Going to see what difference the Focals make, if if they fill in that mid bass dip then I'll just look at the bottom end like so:









Front-Bass feed into a high level (non DSP) amp with x-overs so I can HP the front bass and LP to a 10" in the boot.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Looks like a good plan Muu. MAYBE add something like a DSP mini in front of that 4 channel amp to help correct midbass dip and blend the sub properly.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Just a nugget of nostalgia. I've been using your Avatar pic as the lock screen avatar on my work computer for about 10 years. I adopted it after the 1st time I visited Japan on business. How about them apples?


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Ge0 said:


> Looks like a good plan Muu. MAYBE add something like a DSP mini in front of that 4 channel amp to help correct midbass dip and blend the sub properly.


So I did think about stealing the Mosconi from the 911 however given any processing will have an inherent delay (expected 5ms) it means you shouldn't (in my humble opinion) mix the OE amp chans and say a DSP powered amp. Really it's then about going all in; MOST150 gateway feeding a DSP & amp combo.

Baby steps, let's see what the Focal drop in kit brings. I'm unconvinced about the sub in floor, but would see it as a very nice midbass, some have put a upside-down MW172 in that location with success.



Ge0 said:


> Just a nugget of nostalgia. I've been using your Avatar pic as the lock screen avatar on my work computer for about 10 years. I adopted it after the 1st time I visited Japan on business. How about them apples?


So when google tried to weigh into the social media space and force me to have a google plus user account, I wanted to make mine anonymous and chose this as a random smiley that fit in their round avatar space. Since then forums let us log in using google auth, so it's kinda followed me here


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Doors tomorrow


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So Focal's in across the front now, a more open sound and certainly less harsh. Certainly better, and some work with the EQ I suspect has helped, but bass is still flabby with that acoustically loaded boom.

So the component speakers came with a cross over which looked to just be 2 caps for the tweeter, however there was also an inline large cap for the woofer too between the crossover and the mid.










Black = baseline system with no EQ
Green = Focal 'inside' MBZ components and centre
Blue = As above but tweaked the EQ to -6 -6 -6 which had the net result of pulling that 200-400 up


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So listening today on a run out, it's made the system bright. A step forward from an imaging perspective, but personally a step back tonally. Maybe they need some hours on them.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So scope creep..... idle thoughts are:

Focal Centre
Focal Components (passive xover to tweeter)
Factory subs converted to mid-bass using adapter with 6.5" MW162GT
Rear doors left alone
C Pillar drivers unused
NAV TV to get clean faded optical signal from MOST150
Helix V eight running as per diagram
Sub amp
10" in a stealthbox
Difference between this car and my 911 is that it's a family wagon, so needs a '2 seat' tune and rear seats need some love too. The helix looks amazing for this use case, with real-centre to drive the centre chan and enough IO for all the other speakers and chan 9&10 for the sub.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> So scope creep..... idle thoughts are:
> 
> Focal Centre
> Focal Components (passive xover to tweeter)
> ...


I knew you would give in . Do yourself a favor and buy the V Twelve. This will give you the ability to go fully active in the future with just a slightly larger amplifier.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Just a shame the V12 doesn't do bridging as per your discovery, otherwise could bridge 9&10 into coil1 and 11&2 into coil2


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> Just a shame the V12 doesn't do bridging as per your discovery, otherwise could bridge 9&10 into coil1 and 11&2 into coil2


Many folks run a 2ohm DVC sub off two Helix V Twelve amp channels. That will net about 250W into a sub which is enough for a lot of people. Especially if you are hauling the wife and kids around .


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Hmm yes that isn't bad idea is it, nice one box solution


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Hmmmm they'd fit for a 102 + 142 + 162 trio.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> View attachment 299253
> 
> 
> Hmmmm they'd fit for a 102 + 142 + 162 trio.


Meh... Skip the MD142 and go straight for the E430. It would probably fit nicely behind that Burm grill. I'd like to see what's behind that A-pillar grill too. You should be able to mount the MD102 behind it.


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## SNCTMPL (Nov 23, 2014)

Ge0 said:


> Meh... Skip the MD142 and go straight for the E430. It would probably fit nicely behind that Burm grill. I'd like to see what's behind that A-pillar grill too. You should be able to mount the MD102 behind it.


But if you have to have 142’s, I have a brand new pair.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Either way, not convinced on these focals. Wife commented unprompted how harsh they sounded.

Thinking the JL dual 8" box would go in nicely.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> Either way, not convinced on these focals. Wife commented unprompted how harsh they sounded.
> 
> Thinking the JL dual 8" box would go in nicely.


I've only used the Focal Utopia M so can't comment on the Flax. If the Flax are anything like the 3.5wm then they will require in car tuning. Provide a flat frequency response and they sound sweet. Leave any peaks in the response they will bite (sound harsh). They over accentuate flaws in frequency response.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Ok that's golden advice, I'll get on with my helix order. They could be good, but need taming.

First run out I was like DAFUQ but they've warmed a little, but I suspect the burmester EQ is trying to put glitter on factory turd speakers.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)




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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)




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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Nice amp you have there.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Looking forward to giving it a go.

Know the Zen says it's a V it's really a M one


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So I'm thinking optical feed for the front channels, but use a analogue input for the rears to retain the fader but more importantly the rear parking sensors. However I don't really want a nest unused loom and connectors barrelled between the Zen and the Helix which will be back to back, so I'm going to make my own custom loom between the two.

So while updating the firmware to the latest, I set about finding new connectors on RS:









It's a Molex, Micro-Fit 3.0 Female Connector Housing, 3mm Pitch, 24 Way, 2 Row
RS Stock no.:511-1004










Connectors and pins ordered, see what I can make up.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Going to make up a custom Zen-M to Helix loom


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Thinking 12tw3 in custom box down firing into the well:


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

More bits arriving


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Stripping the brittle OEM stuff off









Deadening in









Need to fabricate mounts for the helix









SR1 will live under the fuse box


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Fuse holder in









Got a little helper


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Neat build, curious how that sub works out for you. Will there be anything on top of it? I'm trying to come up with a similar setup for my Trailblazer SS, but it'll have a piece of the factory floor over it, as well as a cargo cover. Not sure if that's gonna work really. 

Also, I wanna see some pics of this thing! Wish we got stuff like that here. Is it the 4.0L or the 5.5L?


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

500hp 4.0 'hot vee' twin turbo - love it as a practical daily


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

FAUEE said:


> Neat build, curious how that sub works out for you. Will there be anything on top of it? I'm trying to come up with a similar setup for my Trailblazer SS, but it'll have a piece of the factory floor over it, as well as a cargo cover. Not sure if that's gonna work really.
> 
> Also, I wanna see some pics of this thing! Wish we got stuff like that here. Is it the 4.0L or the 5.5L?


Oddly enough it works


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

yeah mine will be like that but with the 12" pointing down into the well - box will be about 22L net


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Ge0 said:


> Oddly enough it works
> View attachment 302586
> 
> View attachment 302587
> ...


Is that space open into the rest of the car? My little well is a sealed off compartment. In my past vehicle, I had a spare tire well that was open to the backseat area and it worked fine. This one has like a bulkhead in the way.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

FAUEE said:


> Is that space open into the rest of the car? My little well is a sealed off compartment. In my past vehicle, I had a spare tire well that was open to the backseat area and it worked fine. This one has like a bulkhead in the way.


No, it is not open to the rest of the car. However, it does vent enough to transmit air pressure to the main cabin.


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## ejeffrey (Oct 8, 2015)

I'm not sure how I didn't see this build until now... Looking good so far! 

I used to have a BMW 540i wagon that was pretty quick for its day, so I highly approve of this car.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Really hoping the Helix tames these Focals, currently it's not a pleasant listen.

Otherwise really it's the tweeter that is like a dentist drill, so maybe I swap that to something else


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

Muu said:


> Really hoping the Helix tames these Focals, currently it's not a pleasant listen.
> 
> Otherwise really it's the tweeter that is like a dentist drill, so maybe I swap that to something else


Focals we’re always hit and miss for me. Great car!


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Trouble is the Dynaudio 430s in my 911 really did raise an eyebrow when my DSP loaded the fresh time-alignement & EQ. Have I been spoilt?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Muu said:


> Really hoping the Helix tames these Focals, currently it's not a pleasant listen.
> 
> Otherwise really it's the tweeter that is like a dentist drill, so maybe I swap that to something else


Dentist drill? Now that's a new one 

Don't worry. They smooth out quite nicely with proper level matching and EQ.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Amp built up and mounted today

















Didn't want to have a octopus of breakout cables with RCA patch, given my front is optical the rear is for back seats and parking beepers, made up my own zen-m loom.









Whole thing should be plug and play (ish)


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So what I have done here is:
A - Left Mid + Tweet​B - Right Mid + Tweet​C - Left 'front bass'​D - Right 'front bass'​E - Rear Left Door + Rear C pillar parallel (4+4 ohm)
F - Rear Left Door + Rear C pillar parallel (4+4 ohm)
G - Centre​H - _Unused_​


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Got onto the box today:




























Amp went in yesterday


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

In the car, needs sanding down, sealing and painting before the driver and cables go on. Fixed to the car with three M6 bolts into the chassis reusing existing holes.










Will be completely hidden


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## slvrtsunami (Apr 18, 2008)

More!!


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

taadaaa - yes my paint job leaves some room for improvement


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So I really can't get on with these focals, had a long trip in my 911 listening to the Dynaudio 102/430/172 trio and they're great with any music at any volume. These drop in focal are harsh and I find myself hunting music that work with them, and nudging the volume down.

Digging out the box to them I noticed the OEM tweeter is a soft dome type, with a 4.7 μF cap on them (I measured it in at 5.18) which should give a roll-off in the 7000 range, which is where the focal mid slopes off anyway, so I'm going to stick them back in.

Long and short is, I suspect if you have a burmester car you either go full in or just pop a sub in. The Focal MBZ 100 I'd skip.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Don't want to be beaten here, so time to try couple things:

New comps up front
Feed cables through to go active
****-can the centre
Replace the 'front-bass' drivers too


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So chatting with a really good UK reseller, alswood audio on eBay (WhatsApp him, very knowledgeable) a small care package arrived.

Front bass swap out:









One side done:









For future reference, if others follow my path down this rabbit hole, that box in front of the speaker is a power distribution box, you could add a line for the amps direct off it.

Drivers side tomorrow and revisit the doors.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)




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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Some small changes today. Tipped the balance in the HU to full front, and set the rear channels to be fed by a mix of optical and rear analogue (former for sound, latter for parking beeps), as the optical can be slow to lock up. Rear is level controlled by knob 2, and mode switch effectively now brings in sub expander.

Have had the sub channel cutting out, not really sure why just yet.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Gone to PS Sound here in the UK for a tune today:









Seems to know what he's doing:









Another Merc in...


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## Arrsie (Sep 3, 2021)

Muu said:


> Gone to PS Sound here in the UK for a tune today:
> View attachment 313095
> 
> 
> ...


I went there the other day to pick up my speakers and got the chance to listen to that Merc. Sounded so good.
Peter is so good and helpful!


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

So had some time with the car since the tune. Really in a system like this the tune was the last 10-15% of the cost but really brought the car together.

I kept a cap on costs with this build, as I like the challenge of working to a budget and having a stealth install. You'd never know this car is touched until you hear it.

Peter at PS Sound is quite opinionated but has earnt the right to be, and can back up his points with knowledge and demonstrate it. Even on top end cars he's using match oem pnp drivers, as quality of install is more important than top end gear etc.


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## SiW80 (Mar 13, 2019)

Muu said:


> So had some time with the car since the tune. Really in a system like this the tune was the last 10-15% of the cost but really brought the car together.
> 
> I kept a cap on costs with this build, as I like the challenge of working to a budget and having a stealth install. You'd never know this car is touched until you hear it.
> 
> Peter at PS Sound is quite opinionated but has earnt the right to be, and can back up his points with knowledge and demonstrate it. Even on top end cars he's using match oem pnp drivers, as quality of install is more important than top end gear etc.


Didn’t realise you were from the UK as well 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

We should have a UK thread!


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Video from my tuning session. Installer wasn't a fan of the GZ comps, but I'm much more pro than the focals I had before.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Parting this build out, let me know what you want from it.

JL 12" in box for merc
NavTV Zen-M
Audison Amp


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)




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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

It's rare to see someone go downfiring in a spare tire well. I bet you get better bass than if the box was flipped 180*.


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