# HIgh end RCA interconnect



## leonm12 (Feb 1, 2009)

hello

what is your suggestions to high end rca interconnect ?
(beyond monster xln and Audison Sonus)

Thanks


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## robert_wrath (Apr 24, 2011)

Bare in mind, both manufacturers noted in your OP produce units designed specifically to perform under circumstances for mobile fidelity.


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## leonm12 (Feb 1, 2009)

I know, but I think there is some home audio companies that make cable for car use also.

I also believe that high quality home audio interconnect with proper shield can fit also to car


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## Winno (May 3, 2011)

I've used Monster IL950's and M1000 on a car. Worked very well and no noise. 
I've been toying with using one of my Kimber sets in my new build. It is after all a twisted conductor construction just like the XLN Pros I also use. 

I'd be interested to know of anyone is using Nordost as I had thought of using them too. I was put off because of their parallel construction and how it might not work in a car environment. I used their speaker cable in one of my cars though. 

Other people here in Australia have used the likes of Ixos, QED, and Audioquest with good results.


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## leonm12 (Feb 1, 2009)

Thanks

I need high end interconnect to use with Audison HV venti amp...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

leonm12 said:


> Thanks
> 
> I need high end interconnect to use with Audison HV venti amp...


No you don't.


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## leonm12 (Feb 1, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> No you don't.


why not?
what you suggest?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Because there is no real benefit. Once you get past twisted pairs, then all you need is something that's well-built. All of the nonsense about shielding is just that, nonsense. I'm using JL's CLR line and it's fine. I like their BLU line better because it's more flexible but the CLR has smaller ends and y-adapters so I went with those because I needed that.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...xos-stinger-wiring-accessories-clearance.html


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Any well built RCAs will give you the same results in car audio. 
"High-End" RCA in a car is pissing away good money.


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## nosaj122081 (Apr 7, 2012)

IBcivic said:


> Any well built RCAs will give you the same results in car audio.
> "High-End" RCA in a car is pissing away good money.


:thumbsup:

Monoprice... Plenty of quality without the stupid price. Copper is copper, it all "sounds" the same, some are just more RESISTANT to noise than others, but $5 Monoprices offer plenty of noise rejection.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

CAT6 network cable..... A pretty cheapskate cable that sound better than some "high end" snake oil cables...
I'll just construct the RCA and put a label "high end" on it and call for a day....


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

nosaj122081 said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Monoprice... Plenty of quality without the stupid price. Copper is copper, it all "sounds" the same, some are just more RESISTANT to noise than others, but $5 Monoprices offer plenty of noise rejection.


 
Unless you are talking Monoprice speaker wire, then you'd be talking about wire that corrodes inside the jacket (ask me how I know, I've got brown wire in my car, not copper)


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## nosaj122081 (Apr 7, 2012)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Unless you are talking Monoprice speaker wire, then you'd be talking about wire that corrodes inside the jacket (ask me how I know, I've got brown wire in my car, not copper)


:shrug:

I've literally used dozens upon dozens of their cables and not had any problems, except that their HDMI cables have a tendency to be a bit fragile where the end connector fastens to the end and break off if you don't take it easy on them.


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## Lars Ulriched (Oct 31, 2009)

Try Van Den Hul...


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

nosaj122081 said:


> :shrug:
> 
> I've literally used dozens upon dozens of their cables and not had any problems, except that their HDMI cables have a tendency to be a bit fragile where the end connector fastens to the end and break off if you don't take it easy on them.


 
Have you used there speaker wire??


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Just went out in my PJ's and took some pics... 

Monoprice wire VS Monster

It's not hard to see the dulling and less than copper look of the Monoprice wire... It looks like that down it's entire leinght... corroded.. 











































My guess, not so "oxygen free"..... lol...


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## nosaj122081 (Apr 7, 2012)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Have you used there speaker wire??


Nope, never have, seems like IIRC the spools were always bigger than I need... Always just got it local, honestly lots of RadioShack over the years  the store is a block away. I used Scosche this time around because it was cheap and I thought the blue jacket was pretty. 

That is pretty ugly, like the insulation wasn't form fitting enough and got moisture in... Replacing wire always sucks...


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

nosaj122081 said:


> Nope, never have, seems like IIRC the spools were always bigger than I need... Always just got it local, honestly lots of RadioShack over the years  the store is a block away. I used Scosche this time around because it was cheap and I thought the blue jacket was pretty.
> 
> That is pretty ugly, like the insulation wasn't form fitting enough and got moisture in... Replacing wire always sucks...


That's how it looks on the roll now...


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## rodneypierce (Feb 2, 2012)

I was waiting for someone to comment on the need for "high end" rca interconnects.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

rodneypierce said:


> I was waiting for someone to comment on the need for "high end" rca interconnects.


 
I run Monster 401XLN, but I've also been running the same set of RCA's since the mid 90's... :laugh:


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## marvnmars (Dec 30, 2011)

in my years of home theater and car audio, i have used verying levels of rca and have never been able to hear a difference in any of them. as long as they are flexable, have good ends, and enough shielding, they will all do the exact same thing....some have pretty packaging, colors, stc... but all do the same thing. i am curentlyusing ixos car rca's, because at the time they where the only 4 conductor rca with small ends i could find on the chep, around $25for the set and i bought another 2 rca set for the sub for 15 or so so they would match. now i have a bench, soildering station, and time to make my own to what ever length i need or want. i have done the cat 5 many times for home, beck before hdmi was around for cusomers who had a media closet and the tv in another room..worked like a charm on runs up to 80ish ft with no signal loss or degradation of the h/d signal. I have also run 100ft hdmi cables that cost less then $.50per foot and have never had a problem out of those either, those where in bars with lots and lots of r/f noise floating around the rooms (neon lights, juke boxes, wireless karaoke mics, speaker wire, coax, electrical filled conduit...) no problem yet, i would have customers who had already bought 2 of the 50ft monster hdmi and the stupid hdmi to hdmi coupler, now that caused problems, i would brng in my cables, and solve the problem all while saving the cust $$, win win.
i remember when tos link came out and companoies started marketing "high end" tos link cables. i talke dto customers until i was blue in the face, digital in, digital out. no matter the builder of a tos link, they have a limited range with out a signal amp. i have seen rca's with mahagony coverd jacks, look pretty, cost a crap load, sound...the same as the $5 from the shack. 
good luck with your search for rca's, personally, i would invest the $$ into a nice dsp, as you will notice more change in your systems sound from that then you will out of a set of rca's..


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## rodneypierce (Feb 2, 2012)

huh?? You mean to tell me those thousand dollar "directional" rca interconnects are just hogwash?!?!? SAY IT AINT SO!!!


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## senior800 (Nov 10, 2010)

rodneypierce said:


> huh?? You mean to tell me those thousand dollar "directional" rca interconnects are just hogwash?!?!? SAY IT AINT SO!!!


Directional just means the direction in which the metal has been refined. You would generally have them going one way to the positive on the RCA connector and the opposite way back from the negative. The direction would be so that the forward refined metal attached to the positive is going away from the source (if that makes sense.)

It does amaze me how many of you like to jump on this 'cables are all the same' bandwagon when I bet 90% of you haven't ever tried a proper high-end cable (not monster or ixos or something.)

I really recommend you try and get a blind test with different cables. May surprise some of you!


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## bass mechanic (Dec 29, 2011)

i can honestly say the best cables you can buy are a pair of single lead wires chucked in a drill and twisted. i have used them method for years and never have any noise.
cat 5 cable works great also.


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## nosaj122081 (Apr 7, 2012)

senior800 said:


> Directional just means the direction in which the metal has been refined. You would generally have them going one way to the positive on the RCA connector and the opposite way back from the negative. The direction would be so that the forward refined metal attached to the positive is going away from the source (if that makes sense.)
> 
> It does amaze me how many of you like to jump on this 'cables are all the same' bandwagon when I bet 90% of you haven't ever tried a proper high-end cable (not monster or ixos or something.)
> 
> I really recommend you try and get a blind test with different cables. May surprise some of you!




It doesn't make sense...

Your directional explanation is incorrect in every way. AC doesn't flow one direction and return another, it ALTERNATES. Besides, wire isn't refined, it's drawn.

Electrons don't give a **** how much you paid for a cable, they'll flow through a solid chunk of copper just the same as a $100 cable (at least at the frequencies we're concerned about). Some cables are better shielded or engineered such that they are more RESISTANT to noise, but a cheap cable in a noise free environment will sound exactly like a cable that is highly noise resistant.


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## bass mechanic (Dec 29, 2011)

it never ceases to amaze me how many people get brainwashed on this subject. preamp signal is not all that demanding. micro amps of current flow, less than 5 volts into a 1k ohm load or more.
you dont need anything fancy to transmit this signal. 
i used to sell IXOS cables with directional signal flow arrows on them.
i install them backwards out of spite! LMAO!


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## nosaj122081 (Apr 7, 2012)

bass mechanic said:


> i can honestly say the best cables you can buy are a pair of single lead wires chucked in a drill and twisted. i have used them method for years and never have any noise.
> cat 5 cable works great also.





kyheng said:


> CAT6 network cable..... A pretty cheapskate cable that sound better than some "high end" snake oil cables...
> I'll just construct the RCA and put a label "high end" on it and call for a day....


I used to use the phone lines in my house to distribute the low level source signals around my house... I made phone jack→RCA adapter cables so I could plug an amp or powered speakers in anywhere I needed it. I've never actually owned a land line phone, may as well use the line for something.

The CAT5/6 idea is a pretty good one, all 4 channels contained in a single run of wiring!


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## Complacent_One (Jul 2, 2009)

nosaj122081 said:


> It doesn't make sense...
> 
> Your directional explanation is incorrect in every way. AC doesn't flow one direction and return another, it ALTERNATES. Besides, wire isn't refined, it's drawn.
> 
> *Electrons don't give a ***** how much you paid for a cable, they'll flow through a solid chunk of copper just the same as a $100 cable (at least at the frequencies we're concerned about). Some cables are better shielded and more RESISTANT to noise, but a cheap cable in a noise free environment will sound exactly like a cable that is highly noise resistant.



Well Put.....and neither does the honey badger!!

You could argue that skin effect will cause issues, but as you plainly stated...not in the frequency ranges we are dealing with. Hell, I was a UHF Technician in the Navy, and also work on SHF, EHF, and THF gear....even at those frequencies a cable was a cable, as long as it was constructed well.

The only cable in a car audio environment that is worth scrutinizing is the friggin antenna coax....since it is dealing with frequencies in the Mhz range...


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## leonm12 (Feb 1, 2009)

Winno said:


> I've used Monster IL950's and M1000 on a car. Worked very well and no noise.
> I've been toying with using one of my Kimber sets in my new build. It is after all a twisted conductor construction just like the XLN Pros I also use.
> 
> I'd be interested to know of anyone is using Nordost as I had thought of using them too. I was put off because of their parallel construction and how it might not work in a car environment. I used their speaker cable in one of my cars though.
> ...


does the M1000 have 5m cable version?


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

IMO, a good RCA for should be twisted pair, durable, and made with OFC copper. If the choice was between a $35 cable that meets those requirements and a $200 cable... I would take the $35 cable 100% of the time and focus my energy and money saved on other meaningful factors that will make a noticable difference in sound. Regardless if the amp cost $200 or $2000! 

The MTX Thunderlink Expert and Competition are the cables that I've had for years...while no longer available, I think the features of these cables are what anyone shopping for cables should look for.



*ThunderLink Expert* - (I use these for high and midrange)








With a very high-gloss, elegant look, the Expert is the best cable choice if you want absolute lowest noise possible. The connectors are machined on a CNC lathe, chromed, and then plated with 24-karat gold.

*Skin Effect = High Fidelity*








This cross-section diagram of a single strand of wire shows the Expert’s silver coating. Silver is a superior conductor. We use it as the coating, because the higher frequencies travel close to the surface of the cable (this is a phenomenon called “skin effect”). This makes the Expert Interconnects the best choice where the maximum degree of high fidelity is expected. 









• “Twisted Twins” (twisted, twisted pair RCA cable) 
• 7 mm of black pvc, with a clear overlay jacketing 
• Chrome and gold-plated ergonomically designed RCA plugs 
• 24-karat gold-plated split center pin (for a better connection) 
• 24-karat goldplated six-segment outer conductor rings (for the tightest fit) 
• Dual strain relief (machined end with polyethylene innermold) 
• Teflon dielectric 
• Silver-coated, OFC copper stranding 

________________________________________


*ThunderLink Competition* - (I use these for midbass and sub)








In the Competition, we take two pairs of twisted pair wire and twist them together. This further reduces the loop area, where extraneous noise is introduced. Our engineers (who are pretty twisted themselves) call this “Twisted Twins.”

*Traditional copper casting* yields many small crystals. The dark spots are the impurities. (Nasty, huh?)









*The OCC (Ohno Continuous Casting)* process results in fewer, larger crystals with very smooth surfaces and way less impurities.








*OCC Copper: Higher Purity = Better Signal*

The superior level of purity from the OCC process means less resistance, higher conductivity and a better signal.








OCC Copper Provides Better Bass Response Low frequencies pass through the conductor toward the center, where there’s a high concentration of very pure, OCC copper. This makes Competition the logical choice for enhanced bass response.








• “Twisted Twins” (twisted, twisted pair) RCA cable 
• 7 mm of pearl red, extruded PVC jacketing 
• Pearl red, ergonomically designed RCA plugs 
• 24-karat Gold-Plated split center pin (for a better connection) 
• 24-karat four-segment outer conductor rings (for tighter fit) 
• Double-molded strain relief (inner polyethylene with pvc overmold) 
• X-tra Long Junction Block to Connector 
• OCC Copper Stranding


just my $0.02 on cables...

Here is a good read on the subject: http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/the-truth-about-interconnects-and-cables


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## senior800 (Nov 10, 2010)

nosaj122081 said:


> It doesn't make sense...
> 
> Your directional explanation is incorrect in every way. AC doesn't flow one direction and return another, it ALTERNATES. Besides, wire isn't refined, it's drawn.
> 
> Electrons don't give a **** how much you paid for a cable, they'll flow through a solid chunk of copper just the same as a $100 cable (at least at the frequencies we're concerned about). Some cables are better shielded and more RESISTANT to noise, but a cheap cable in a noise free environment will sound exactly like a cable that is highly noise resistant.


I'm going to stop taking about cables on this forum. 

I'm not saying it won't work the other way round. I'm saying the reason for them being called directional - its not just randomly put on one side.

We're talking about different things though. There's nothing revolutionary going on in $100 RCA's. *I agree there is no reason to buy ixos or monster or whatever brands you generally refer to as high-end* Generally it's all the same metal, a few different shielding's (which do nothing) but generally they all sound very similar. There is a lot more going on when you get into proper money stuff however.


For reference when I make cables I don't use copper cables, I don't use solder and if I can help it I don't use any sort of plastics for shielding.


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## nosaj122081 (Apr 7, 2012)

Complacent_One said:


> Well Put.....and neither does the honey badger!!
> 
> You could argue that skin effect will cause issues, but as you plainly stated...not in the frequency ranges we are dealing with. Hell, I was a UHF Technician in the Navy, and also work on SHF, EHF, and THF gear....even at those frequencies a cable was a cable, as long as it was constructed well.
> 
> The only cable in a car audio environment that is worth scrutinizing is the friggin antenna coax....since it is dealing with frequencies in the Mhz range...


I am/was (thanks economy!) an RF Engineer by trade, wireless phones... I specifically worked for companies that used the PCS bands (≈1.8-2.0 GHz). I used 2 different cables for EVERY antenna run, 7/8" for heights ≤ 100' an 1-5/8" for more than that (used the same specs for 2.4GHz microwave systems, but for 5.8GHz I always spec'd 7/8", it was all about the $$$). If you looked at the cross-section of the cable, it was about 1/8" insulation, followed by a VERY thin copper conductor, then a thick ring of foam, then another VERY thin copper conductor layer, and then an air core. 

Perfect example of the skin effect!


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## Complacent_One (Jul 2, 2009)

senior800 said:


> There is a lot more going on when you get into proper money stuff however.



That is absolutely correct....but there is a point where the law of diminishing returns kicks in and it is pretty low when it comes to cable....

Directionality of a cable has to do with the drain(shield) termination....which should be terminated at the source end. You are dealing with AC electron flow is bi-directional....so if you were to lift the shield from the the terminated end...I can all but guarantee you that you would not be able to measure a different in signal quality or strength, regardless of the cable orientation...

Skin Effect.....yup...it can cause issues if you are dealing with ridiculously high bandwidth devices or super long runs....like miles...but not in the case of the frequencies use in car audio... Taking skin effect into consideration when building waveguides and echo-chambers is a huge concern...but not something to be concerned about in car or ultra-high end home audio...


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## senior800 (Nov 10, 2010)

Complacent_One said:


> That is absolutely correct....but there is a point where the law of diminishing returns kicks in and it is pretty low when it comes to cable....


I find it is the smaller things such as cables and proper sound treatment etc. that turn a good/great system into an emotional one. 

I agree for most people on here that are looking for 'good sounds' that there is no point looking beyond using straight DIY OFC copper cables (I'd even say the car-cables that most people recommend on here is more than is required.) but if you've reached that top level and/or you have the money then there is a lot to gain by incorporating high-end cables into it (whether diy or bought.)


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## rodneypierce (Feb 2, 2012)

I didnt mean to spear head this discussion in a different direction. Sorry OP.


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

I like to use the high-end Stinger HPM3 rca's, just because it makes me feel good.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

most cat 5 cable is not shielded, and twisted pair aint' gonna do **** unless it's a balanced (at least impedance balanced) transmission standard.

I sure as hell wish people would get that through their heads.


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## nick650 (Feb 7, 2011)

SO MUCH MISS INFORMATION! >_<

RCA: Twisted is for BALANCED only. Silver won't do squat. Monster is HORRIBLE! The best cable is one where it has a dual braid or some type of shielding (foil, braid) that is grounded. That is it. Rest for a car is unneeded/ BS.


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## bass mechanic (Dec 29, 2011)

chad said:


> most cat 5 cable is not shielded, and twisted pair aint' gonna do **** unless it's a balanced (at least impedance balanced) transmission standard.
> 
> I sure as hell wish people would get that through their heads.


so explain to me what the definition of impeadance balanced means..
since i do not agree with this statement and i know the definition i am curious to hear what your definition is.
thanks!


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## rodneypierce (Feb 2, 2012)

bass mechanic said:


> so explain to me what the definition of impeadance balanced means..
> since i do not agree with this statement and i know the definition i am curious to hear what your definition is.
> thanks!


oh boy..... Chad, the floor is yours....


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I've only done this a hundred times since 2005 so why not once more huh 

In order for a balanced system to work the impedance of both legs HAS to be equal so that any induced noise will be induced at the same level and FR. If they are NOT impedance balanced the CMRR goes to hell in a handbasket. You can have signal on the non inverting leg and NOTHING on the inverting leg, as long as the impedance of the 2 lines remains the same.

For balanced differential you have an equal impedance on both legs a non inverted signal and an inverted signal.

So what don't you agree with? Do you think twisting a ground and a signal line up represents adequate shielding?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

chad said:


> I've only done this a hundred times since 2005 so why not once more huh
> 
> In order for a balanced system to work the impedance of both legs HAS to be equal so that any induced noise will be induced at the same level and FR. If they are NOT impedance balanced the CMRR goes to hell in a handbasket. You can have signal on the non inverting leg and NOTHING on the inverting leg, as long as the impedance of the 2 lines remains the same.
> 
> ...


100% true. with an unbalanced system it doesnt matter if a noise is induced on both neg and pos wires since the pos wire is the only signal used. without the summation of the non-inverted and inverted signals (causing the common noise to be rejected) it does nothing.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

if you wanna go impedance balanced UBER CHEAP and you have an amp that has balanced inputs, even on RCA... Check it

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf

Fig 2.4

you need about 50 cents in parts and an eyeball, but a service manual comes in handy for ordering the goods


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

marvnmars said:


> in my years of home theater and car audio, i have used verying levels of rca and have never been able to hear a difference in any of them. as long as they are flexable, have good ends, and enough shielding, they will all do the exact same thing....some have pretty packaging, colors, stc... but all do the same thing. i am curentlyusing ixos car rca's, because at the time they where the only 4 conductor rca with small ends i could find on the chep, around $25for the set and i bought another 2 rca set for the sub for 15 or so so they would match. now i have a bench, soildering station, and time to make my own to what ever length i need or want. i have done the cat 5 many times for home, beck before hdmi was around for cusomers who had a media closet and the tv in another room..worked like a charm on runs up to 80ish ft with no signal loss or degradation of the h/d signal. I have also run 100ft hdmi cables that cost less then $.50per foot and have never had a problem out of those either, those where in bars with lots and lots of r/f noise floating around the rooms (neon lights, juke boxes, wireless karaoke mics, speaker wire, coax, electrical filled conduit...) no problem yet, i would have customers who had already bought 2 of the 50ft monster hdmi and the stupid hdmi to hdmi coupler, now that caused problems, i would brng in my cables, and solve the problem all while saving the cust $$, win win.
> i remember when tos link came out and companoies started marketing "high end" tos link cables. i talke dto customers until i was blue in the face, digital in, digital out. no matter the builder of a tos link, they have a limited range with out a signal amp. i have seen rca's with mahagony coverd jacks, look pretty, cost a crap load, sound...the same as the $5 from the shack.
> good luck with your search for rca's, personally, i would invest the $$ into a nice dsp, as you will notice more change in your systems sound from that then you will out of a set of rca's..



Shielding is worthless in a car.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> Shielding is worthless in a car.


I beg to differ.

Because nothing in a car radiates noise?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

senior800 said:


> Directional just means the direction in which the metal has been refined. You would generally have them going one way to the positive on the RCA connector and the opposite way back from the negative. The direction would be so that the forward refined metal attached to the positive is going away from the source (if that makes sense.)
> 
> It does amaze me how many of you like to jump on this 'cables are all the same' bandwagon when I bet 90% of you haven't ever tried a proper high-end cable (not monster or ixos or something.)
> 
> I really recommend you try and get a blind test with different cables. May surprise some of you!


What??? Do you really believe this garbage? There isn't one cable for positive and one for negative so directional winding is nothing but marketing. 

I sold "high end" HT cables. It's snake oil designed to part people from their money. There is no benefit. Do you believe there is such a thing as "midrange" speaker wire and "subwoofer" speaker wire?


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

Gamut wire with 99.99999 OCC w/AG coat, and XHADOW or Eichmann RCA's !!!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> I sold "high end" HT cables. It's snake oil designed to part people from their money. *There is no benefit.*


Profit margin for you brother


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

quality_sound said:


> Shielding is worthless in a car.


I would be interested to know your rationale behind this statement.


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

wire is directional, if your wire has shield and two conductor's the shield get connected only on the source end, That is how noise is rejected.




quality_sound said:


> What??? Do you really believe this garbage? There isn't one cable for positive and one for negative so directional winding is nothing but marketing.
> 
> I sold "high end" HT cables. It's snake oil designed to part people from their money. There is no benefit. Do you believe there is such a thing as "midrange" speaker wire and "subwoofer" speaker wire?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

xxx_busa said:


> wire is directional, if your wire has shield and two conductor's the shield get connected only on the source end, That is how noise is rejected.












Although many overlook that because there are some sects that do believe that copper flows AC in one direction better.. I think that's what he was getting at.


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## Complacent_One (Jul 2, 2009)

xxx_busa said:


> Gamut wire with 99.99999 OCC w/AG coat, and XHADOW or Eichmann RCA's !!!



Yes....the XHADOWs are fantastic, they bring such realism to the music and such a deep soundstage, but the Eichmann's adds a woody type note with a bit of nut flavor to the ....**** wait...started thinking about beer again....damn it, I hate it when I do that. Reading subjective reviews of audio cables is like reading beer reviews....just less palatable....


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

I like the statement Hi End Home Theater, I'm still laughing, nothing about HT is HiEnd, 

Life is all about dedicated 2 channel - Music only - Kill the TV


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

Starting to sound like a cigar review Brother !!!




Complacent_One said:


> Yes....the XHADOWs are fantastic, they bring such realism to the music and such a deep soundstage, but the Eichmann's adds a woody type note with a bit of nut flavor to the ....**** wait...started thinking about beer again....damn it, I hate it when I do that. Reading subjective reviews of audio cables is like reading beer reviews....just less palatable....


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

xxx_busa said:


> wire is directional, if your wire has shield and two conductor's the shield get connected only on the source end, That is how noise is rejected.


if this is true then why dont people also have to run two sets of speaker wire to each speaker? one for pos and one for neg? it is total garbage and not provable in any science! (except pseudo-science)


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

nick650 said:


> SO MUCH MISS INFORMATION! >_<
> 
> RCA: Twisted is for BALANCED only. Silver won't do squat. *Monster is HORRIBLE!* The best cable is one where it has a dual braid or some type of shielding (foil, braid) that is grounded. That is it. Rest for a car is unneeded/ BS.


 
Monster is SMART... they sell ******** to stupid people... It's called making MONEY... (Infinity has been doing the same for years)

Do I agree with it, NOT in the slightest... 



But to say there products are horrible is a misnomer... 

There products are horrible *FOR THE MONEY*... 

Been using the same Monster 301/401XLN cables CONTINOUSLY since the early/mid 90's...



















They've been in 3 different cars, and been re-terminated 3-4 different times I'd say... 

NEVER, not ONCE (though I'm a competient installer, so that's pretty easy) have I EVER had a noise issue.. 


My Monster RCA's have paid for themselves many times over... But then again, I didn't pull these off the shelf...


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

chad said:


> I beg to differ.
> 
> Because nothing in a car radiates noise?


Unless something has changed, aren't all the radiated noises in a car outside the range that the VERY thin shielding in an RCA is capable of rejecting?


----------



## Complacent_One (Jul 2, 2009)

The cable assembly itself is directional...meaning for the shield to operate as designed the assembly must be installed in per its designed spec for the shield to work....the conductor(copper/silver/ground up magic unicorn horn) is not directional...

Well, maybe the unicorn dust is, but just like directional copper....I have not been able to put my hands on any of it...


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

depends on the sheild I suppose. a nice foil and braided shield should act just like a faraday cage for the center conductor. since the shield is grounded, will protect very well.

obviously it will not help at the ends or in the electronic themselves. but a radiating source along the way will protected against.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> Unless something has changed, aren't all the radiated noises in a car outside the range that the VERY thin shielding in an RCA is capable of rejecting?


Nope, you really think the THICKNESS of the shield makes a difference? Really? So your perception of a Faraday cage must be pretty grand 

There's TONS of stay RF coming off the fuel pump and the ECU also.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Complacent_One said:


> Well, maybe the unicorn dust is, but just like directional copper....I have not been able to put my hands on any of it...


 
It stopped being sold in the mid 90's due to addiction.... :laugh:


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

No, but we all know there is nothing but a layer of foil in an automotive RCA. Rarely do we even see anything with even a braided shield and I'm willing to bet that's for flexibility and not to create a cable version of a Faraday cage. 

Just thinking out loud here, but even if someone COULD put in the equivalent of a Faraday cage, would it continue to be effective once you bend the cable and distort the "cage"?


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> No, but we all know there is nothing but a layer of foil in an automotive RCA. Rarely do we even see anything with even a braided shield and I'm willing to bet that's for flexibility and not to create a cable version of a Faraday cage.
> 
> Just thinking out loud here, but even if someone COULD put in the equivalent of a Faraday cage, would it continue to be effective once you bend the cable and distort the "cage"?


 
Sure... As long as it stays continous... The "cage" is as much magnetic as it is metallic... you could build a cage out of screen(braid), I've seen it done...

The "cage" only needs to be as strong as what you are trying to reject too, if you think about it... 

We aren't building EMP blockers, we're blocking some stray fields

(waiting for chad here, if I'm off...lol)


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

actually foil works better than braid as it's 100% coverage, braid is used in cabling that is constantly being flexed, etc, because eventually the foil breaks down.


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

and a dual braid work wonders. the braids are at 90° from each other. what little hole might be exposed from one braid is still sealed by the other. I know I am talking more about RF cable, but there is nothing saying you cant use it for audio 


those always have a foil sheild too.


----------



## Complacent_One (Jul 2, 2009)

Unless the foil is relatively thick and made of some as conductive or more conductive than copper, then that statement is not correct. Even though braided shield has less coverage it has much more potential as a drain to ground. 

Most foils are 100 percent coverage, but are made of tin or aluminum coated polymer...so just because it is in the path of the noise does not mean it can send it all elsewhere.

Braids typically have less coverage but are constructed of more conductive materials, so in a higher noise environment they can be built to send specifically identified sources of noise to ground.

foil is cheaper and is lighter...and is presumed as more flexible, but the last statement is only during its initial installation. Braided shield will hold up must better to being moved around....of course, in a vehicle installation, that is not important...(just so this is clear, i am not associating vibration with actual deflection of the cable assembly)


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

It really is a coverage thing, that is why it's required for broadcast, studios, and commercial installation. There IS a big difference in braid for rejection. AES has been over it a million times. But yeah, braid is the ONLY way to go for a flexible (portable) cable. Now the foil IS coupled to a drain wire throughout it's length, if it weren't I'd totally see your point.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

chad said:


> actually foil works better than braid as it's 100% coverage, braid is used in cabling that is constantly being flexed, etc, because eventually the foil breaks down.


Indeed, but that's where the "depends" comes in... 



Complacent_One said:


> Unless the foil is relatively thick and made of some as conductive or more conductive than copper, then that statement is not correct. Even though braided shield has less coverage it has much more potential as a drain to ground.
> 
> *How you figure?*
> 
> ...


So my foil sheilded RCAs where bad the first time I bent them, or have somehow gone bad in the 12 or so years I've been using them... 


Re-think you should...


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

nope, but they will break down after a while, I have foil shield cables (gepco, etc) that I have used for patch cables for a long time and are fine. Conversely I would not use that style of cable as an instrument cable or mic cable...


----------



## Complacent_One (Jul 2, 2009)

chad said:


> It really is a coverage thing, that is why it's required for broadcast, studios, and commercial installation. There IS a big difference in braid for rejection. AES has been over it a million times. But yeah, braid is the ONLY way to go for a flexible (portable) cable. Now the foil IS coupled to a drain wire throughout it's length, if it weren't I'd totally see your point.


I do agree with the fact that some foil shielded cable have a drain running the length of the cable and that indeed increases the potential shielding properties...


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

chad said:


> nope, but they will break down after a while, I have foil shield cables (gepco, etc) that I have used for patch cables for a long time and are fine. Conversely I would not use that style of cable as an instrument cable or mic cable...


I could agree, if Iwas moving cables around like in a Prosound setting like you've done... 

In a car though, they get bent into position, and well, little happens after, some vibrations but whatever... 

I would agree on the instrument/mic cables for sure, I've herd the noise you can pick up on a crap cable by just slapping it on the floor... 

Different application though...


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I could agree, if Iwas moving cables around like in a Prosound setting like you've done...
> 
> In a car though, they get bent into position, and well, little happens after, some vibrations but whatever...
> 
> ...


I should have stated, I'm not disagreeing with you


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

chad said:


> I should have stated, I'm not disagreeing with you


 
Oh, I know man... I'm just bouncing things off the walls man... seeing what comes back.. 

Iwas agreeeing with you as well, on parts.. lol..

Really, I try and feed you, so you'll gimme what I want/need to set myself straight if I'm not 100% on something, honestly.. 

I'm constantly trying to either dispell or reinforce my knowledge.. If i'm wrong, I want it to be right, if it's right, I like to make sure.. lol..


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

It's been one of the more civil cable discussions I have seen in a while


----------



## rape_ape (Sep 22, 2010)

leonm12 said:


> hello
> 
> what is your suggestions to high end rca interconnect ?
> (beyond monster xln and Audison Sonus)
> ...



I happily use el-cheapo interconnects. Expensive wiring is the oldest and biggest scam in audio, mobile or otherwise, imo.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

chad said:


> It's been one of the more civil cable discussions I have seen in a while




Right? lol 

Question - If the foil (braided or otherwise) is sufficient for rejection what is the real benefit of twisted pairs, other than matched impedances on the pos and neg leads?


----------



## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

didnt read trough all thread........so if u want to spend good amount of money on RCA connectors than take a look at FURUTECH - FURUTECH

Hi-end performance for hi-end price, then add mono-cristal signal cable and you are good to go oke:


----------



## rape_ape (Sep 22, 2010)

For whatever this is worth, my car is a 2011 model (hence loaded with possible noise sources) and I have a $25 LOC from wally world, super-el-cheapo RCAs, a crossover, eq and three amps (seven total active channels) with their associated wiring. I use standard grounding techniques and have zero noise in my system. So there.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

LBaudio said:


> *didnt read trough all thread*........so if u want to spend good amount of money on RCA connectors than take a look at FURUTECH - FURUTECH
> 
> Hi-end performance for hi-end price, then add mono-cristal signal cable and you are good to go oke:


 
Obvious guy is obvious....


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> Right? lol
> 
> Question - If the foil (braided or otherwise) is sufficient for rejection what is the real benefit of twisted pairs, other than matched impedances on the pos and neg leads?


Long ass runs, and even less noise, every bit counts. Sometimes the shield is not sufficient, sometimes in balanced systems (telco) a shield is not even used at all. Let's say you have a mic signal, split it 3 times, sent it a cumulative 1K feet... CMRR gets VERY important at that point.

A member long ago said once... "You can never eliminate noise, only attenuate it."


----------



## marvnmars (Dec 30, 2011)

LBaudio said:


> didnt read trough all thread........so if u want to spend good amount of money on RCA connectors than take a look at FURUTECH - FURUTECH
> 
> Hi-end performance for hi-end price, then add mono-cristal signal cable and you are good to go oke:


ok...i need a battery elixir...you have to enjoy the fact they are labeling their snake oil as snake oil and selling it so...Phineas Taylor Barnum was right "there is a customer born every minute"....


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Just went out in my PJ's and took some pics...
> 
> Monoprice wire VS Monster
> 
> ...


That is more of the quality of the copper alloy, itself. "Overseas" copper wire might contain undesirable fillers to boost profits. 
It can also be a reaction to the jacket material. The "C" in PVC is for chloride. Chlorine makes copper turn to brown.
Cheap PVC degrades and breaks down rather quickly in a car. 
I used some cheap home depot "made in china" speaker wire and a year or two, later, you could almost snap it like a twig.


*Wiki>*
_The high-end speaker wire industry markets oxygen-free copper as having enhanced conductivity or other electrical properties that are significantly advantageous to audio signal transmission. However, conductivity specifications for common C11000 Electrolytic-Tough-Pitch (ETP) and higher-cost C10200 Oxygen-Free (OF) coppers are identical. Much more expensive C10100, a highly refined copper with silver impurities removed and oxygen reduced to 0.0005%, has only a one percent increase in conductivity rating, insignificant in audio applications. OFC is nevertheless valued by some for both audio and video signals in audio playback systems and home cinema._


----------



## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

How about ferrite-rings? ( They are called this way over here )

I remember they were delivered with some older pioneer prs amps, My colleague has used them to reduce noise i mean....


----------



## Pimpnyou204 (Jul 13, 2011)

I first tried schooshe(sp?) and they broke off lol but were ok i guess the amp played heh
kicker were thin and very unshielded aand omitted some noise
I now have the knu and wow very well shielded and a noticeable difference.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

LOL the omitting noise is the goal.

Ferrites can work in places you are having RF issues.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

bass mechanic said:


> it never ceases to amaze me how many people get brainwashed on this subject. preamp signal is not all that demanding. micro amps of current flow, less than 5 volts into a 1k ohm load or more.
> you dont need anything fancy to transmit this signal.
> i used to sell IXOS cables with directional signal flow arrows on them.
> i install them backwards out of spite! LMAO!


So now your music plays backwards....


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

or his shield is tied to the center tap of the amp's transformer and nothing else.


----------



## Leonaudio (Jul 28, 2010)

Cable is all same its just L C and R ,

so = 

All speaker cable are same










All rca cable are same










so L C R are same too

L










C










R










Agree ?


----------



## Pimpnyou204 (Jul 13, 2011)

But shielding is not


----------



## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Only agree if they are using same material.... Else nope...
But again, will material change the signal? I in doubt....


----------



## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

leonm12 said:


> hello
> 
> what is your suggestions to high end rca interconnect ?
> (beyond monster xln and Audison Sonus)
> ...


Just make your own cables. I do my own/friends cables. I use Belden coax.


----------



## Pimpnyou204 (Jul 13, 2011)

kyheng said:


> Only agree if they are using same material.... Else nope...
> But again, will material change the signal? I in doubt....


Well looking at it like that why not just use 2 deprecated strands of copper? Both could carry a signal.. It's just a matter of how well


----------



## leonm12 (Feb 1, 2009)

I am not understand why people think cable and components are not matters in high end system.

I can assure you , based on my personal experiance that cables do matters and I can distinguish the diffrances. 

if you have proper installation with high quality amp/speakers/HU you can distinguish any change you make to the system.
sometimes changes are harder to find and sometimes it is instant.

I have tried some RCA cable and able to find the diffeances between them in aspect of detail, balance and so on.
in speakers cables I was able to find diffrances in sound image, soundstage width and accuracy.

crossover components also do matters!
Duelund is like no other (I like also Mundorf Caps and Jantzen coils)

so cable/component do matter. it is just a matter of the system components / installation around them

finally I have choosed on "The Chord" Cadenza Interconnect for my system which is custom made cable and they will modify it to best work on car according to their cable doctor.


----------



## diynube (Feb 27, 2011)

Out of curiosity, what do you guys think about the Monoprice RG-59 Premium audio cables in particular? 
For only $3.02 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 6ft Premium 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M 22AWG Cable - Black | Premium Analog RCA Cables
I don't know if they are copper shield or aluminum.
Is Aluminum acceptable compared to copper regarding the shield/ground leg?


----------



## Leonaudio (Jul 28, 2010)

Pimpnyou204 said:


> But shielding is not


is shielding is not a part of cable ?


----------



## Leonaudio (Jul 28, 2010)

kyheng said:


> Only agree if they are using same material.... Else nope...
> But again, will material change the signal? I in doubt....


you mean thats all material are same ?


----------



## Leonaudio (Jul 28, 2010)

leonm12 said:


> I am not understand why people think cable and components are not matters in high end system.
> 
> I can assure you , based on my personal experiance that cables do matters and I can distinguish the diffrances.
> 
> ...


High End Cable , Passive system vs active system , Tube VS Solid State , Fullrange VS multiple drivers , Horn Loaded is always never ending story


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

leonm12 said:


> in speakers cables I was able to find diffrances in sound image, soundstage width and accuracy.


Do you are saying that the speaker cable changes the phase relationship between the speakers?

Because only 2 things can do what you are describing... level changes and phase relationship.

And the first is highly doubtful unless there was a GROSS mismatch at high power levels.

Think that out.


----------



## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Leonaudio said:


> Cable is all same its just L C and R ,
> so =
> All speaker cable are same
> 
> ...


I think this is where the argument gets even more interesting. I'm sure there are some out there that believe that cables are cables...but these same people will tell you that a hand made in America triple-darlington amp with pricey esoteric thru-hole components and gold plated PCB's and everything else sounds better than a modern automated made in China triple-darlington amp manufactured using cheaper SMT components...even though the specs look the same. Where does the signal chain end? 

This subject is about as bad as religion and politics...maybe we should just let it go and don't talk about it...everyone has their own beliefs and ears...we her what we hear or believe what we believe.


----------



## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

leonm12 said:


> I am not understand why people think cable and components are not matters in high end system.
> 
> I can assure you , based on my personal experiance that cables do matters and I can distinguish the diffrances.
> 
> ...


Watch this and understand why your system sounds different when you change an RCA or speaker cable:

Audio Myths Workshop - YouTube

I read a great article about a guy with an audiophile for a brother. He challanged his brother and some of his audiophile mates to tell the difference between the $100/ft cable his brother had and some $1/foot cable he was going to substitute in. They accepted the challenge and he did the tests with them-none could spot the difference or that he had swapped the $1/foot cable for coat hangers he'd soldered together...

A customer of mine is a rep for several home audio brands, has worked in the industry for the last 20years and has sat down with several "Hi-End" cable manufacturers and swapped out one cable for another-none could tell if he was using their own cable, a cheap cable or a competitors "Hi-End" cable-so even the guys that make/market/sell these "superior" products cannot tell them apart. What cable did he request we use for installing his Focal 130VR components and Focal FP2.150? The cheapest one we stocked...


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

leonm12 said:


> I am not understand why people think cable and components are not matters in high end system.
> 
> I can assure you , based on my personal experiance that cables do matters and I can distinguish the diffrances.
> 
> ...


 
Where where you hearing all of these differences??? 

In a home audio system, or in your car, taking the kids to school??? 

Because I can almost guarante that you didn't hear a difference in the commute across town... Maybe... MAYBE, sitting quietly in the garage... 

Sounds like you got "hosed" by the "cable doctor"... 





chad said:


> Do you are saying that the speaker cable changes the phase relationship between the speakers?
> 
> Because only 2 things can do what you are describing... level changes and phase relationship.
> 
> ...


 
I've herd a difference between lamp cord and high end esoteric speaker cable on my home system... A/B tested mutiple times... 

But I was also sitting in a quite room.... not doing 30-80mph down the road... 



WLDock said:


> I think this is where the argument gets even more interesting. I'm sure there are some out there that believe that cables are cables...but these same people will tell you that a hand made in America triple-darlington amp with pricey esoteric thru-hole components and gold plated PCB's and everything else sounds better than a modern automated made in China triple-darlington amp manufactured using cheaper SMT components...even though the specs look the same. Where does the signal chain end?
> 
> This subject is about as bad as religion and politics...maybe we should just let it go and don't talk about it...everyone has their own beliefs and ears...we her what we hear or believe what we believe.


 
I've herd the differences... they aren't great by any respect, but being able to sit in a high end home audio shop (my first CA install job) you DO get to demo a bunch of the "snake oil" 

Some is oil, some isn't... 






Point I'M trying to make IS.... In a car, possibly one that isn't COMPLETELY competition worthy sound deadened... 

WILL you HEAR a difference.... that's the unlikely part... as long as noise isn't an issue, you'll never hear the difference going down the road... 

Plane and simple..


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I've herd a difference between lamp cord and high end esoteric speaker cable on my home system... A/B tested mutiple times...
> 
> But I was also sitting in a quite room.... not doing 30-80mph down the road...


You mean the speaker cable with the bigass honkin network in the middle of it? Yeah, I have heard a woofer with and without a passive crossover, they sound dramatically different.

As the person who re-ignited the fire said.. It comes down to R, L, and C, all of which are measurable all ov which can be calculated to see the effects on sound at the given frequency by looking at the plots of the speaker namely reactance.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

chad said:


> You mean the speaker cable with the bigass honkin network in the middle of it? Yeah, I have heard a woofer with and without a passive crossover, they sound dramatically different.
> 
> As the person who re-ignited the fire said.. It comes down to R, L, and C, all of which are measurable all ov which can be calculated to see the effects on sound at the given frequency by looking at the plots of the speaker namely reactance.


 
chad, you can measure all you like brotha (and I know you do and will)

But can you measure the experience? 

Don't try and discount this by acting like it's such a drastic difference as with and w/o a passive crossover in place.... cause it's not... 

If you can't decern subtle differences, maybe you've been at it too long... 

I experienced it... no need to measure...


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm not saying I'm right and you are wrong... I'm saying there's a place for everything... 

I ask, your home stereo, what are the speakers hooked up with? Lamp cord? or something "better" 



Hell, one of the guys at the "high end" shop I used to work at, used to laugh at people often buying the "high end" wire.... 

He always said you could do the same with 16/2 from HD...:laugh:



Anyhoo, I think we've danced around this tree, what, 3-4-5 times now... I'm done..


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

What do you think that big honking box in the middle of the cable is then? It's a filter network.

My fave is the power cable argument... classic stuff.

Take some wire, put it in a heater hose, wrap it in techflex and heatshrink, put an edison male and an IEC female on it, charge 500 bucks. Fill it with pool filter sand, 1 grand.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

chad said:


> What do you think that big honking box in the middle of the cable is then? It's a filter network.
> 
> My fave is the power cable argument... classic stuff.
> 
> Take some wire, put it in a heater hose, wrap it in techflex and heatshrink, put an edison male and an IEC female on it, charge 500 bucks. Fill it with pool filter sand, 1 grand.


 
WHAT are you talking about?? What big honkin box? where? 

On my speaker cables that I A/B'ed.... none... just wire...?? 

I'm confused, or we are confusing each other... 

speakers cables I speak of look like such and only have poly filler running down the center..


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I ask, your home stereo, what are the speakers hooked up with? Lamp cord? or something "better"


No "stereo" in the house, in my modest studio rig I use Belden, off a spool, terminated with Pomona MDP, just like pretty much every other recording studio. For signal, Gepco, because it has a really low capacitance and it's 20 cents a foot, Neutrik XLR ends, because they are cheap and sturdy..... Again, just like every other recording studio.

Every album you listen to went thru miles of "unacceptable to an audiophile" wire.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> WHAT are you talking about?? What big honkin box? where?
> 
> On my speaker cables that I A/B'ed.... none... just wire...??
> 
> ...


Goddamn, no wonder it sounded different, your speakers were only 4' apart


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

chad said:


> Goddamn, no wonder it sounded different, your speakers were only 4' apart


 
You crack me up man... :laugh:


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

FWIW, THIS is the ROFLCOPTER I was talking about


----------



## nosaj122081 (Apr 7, 2012)

diynube said:


> Out of curiosity, what do you guys think about the Monoprice RG-59 Premium audio cables in particular?
> For only $3.02 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 6ft Premium 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M 22AWG Cable - Black | Premium Analog RCA Cables
> I don't know if they are copper shield or aluminum.
> Is Aluminum acceptable compared to copper regarding the shield/ground leg?


Those are the ones I use, I have 3 runs if em in the car and I don't even know how many in the house. Excellent results, totally noise-free, but they are physically fairly large, if you have to navigate tight bends they may be a bit difficult, but other than that, they're very nice. If the shipping charges didn't sorta suck, I'd be ordering another 2 sets right now.

I will hold fast on my position that there is no audible difference between "high end" and budget cables (I'm limiting that speaker and RCA wires only, there are too many caviats to take into consideration with other applications). I've seen no scientific evidence supporting a difference. If someone can explain what makes the copper in expensive wires conduct AC voltage in the 20-20kHz frequency band better than the copper in budget cables, maybe I'll reconsider.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

chad said:


> FWIW, THIS is the ROFLCOPTER I was talking about


 

Wow.... that's...... a...... special.... lol... 


And yeah, I'm just a scoche smarter than that (I like to think at least)


----------



## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

The Baron Groog said:


> Watch this and understand why your system sounds different when you change an RCA or speaker cable:
> 
> Audio Myths Workshop - YouTube
> 
> ...


1 of the summary for this video : The look and the price of a product will change how the brain think.... Even it was made using the lowest quality stuffs....


----------



## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

While I have yet to self experiment with expensive cables I do have acouple of stories I've heard years ago.

I used to work in a bicycle shop and we had a good customer that was deep into home audio. I don't remenber his gear (late 80's) but he had a "Nice" high end system from all accounts. I remember one day he had showed us a receipt from the audio store. He had just spent about $500-$1000 on new speaker cable. If I remember correctly, I think he had decent copper cables beforehand but upgraded to some very large 1" thick cables. He said that the system just opend up after the change...the sound was more detailed and pure. *Now, here is the kicker*...his son came home while the system was playing, not knowing about the speaker wire changed, but asked what his dad did to the stereo. *He stated that it sounded better!*

The other story that sticks with me is SQ local Anthony Davis stating that years ago Ron Buffington's old BMW 318Ti had an almost 4-dimensional sound stage. Ron swears that the ultra expensive MIT interconnects and speaker cables were a big factor in the sound of that car.

I have yet to experience these things but some have...who am I to tell them that they did not?


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

99 times out of 100, the "better sound" from a speaker wire swap is simply because the old cable was starting to corrode. New cable with no corrosion, BAM! Better sound.


----------



## narvarr (Jan 20, 2009)

I am about to use these myself...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=189-189&FTR=belkin blue av 

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> 99 times out of 100, the "better sound" from a speaker wire swap is simply because the old cable was starting to corrode. New cable with no corrosion, BAM! Better sound.


But what about the use of Anti-Corrosion Inhibitors like SUPER CORR that the military uses.? I know for a fact this guy was already using this stuff because I had not heard of such a product until then. This guy knew all about corrosion on cable ends and such...if I remember correctly he used to clean his cable ends from time to time and reapply the Anti-Corrosion Inhibitors before and after the cable swap....like I said...this guy was into it.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

That's the ends. I'd be willing to bet that the cables themselves had some corrosion. Even SUPER CORR corrodes. It takes longer, but it still happens. I'll ask some of my crew chief friends but I'm pretty sure they've had to replace bad cabling on every jet over a few years old.


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

WLDock said:


> He said that the system just opend up after the change...the sound was more detailed and pure. *Now, here is the kicker*...his son came home while the system was playing, not knowing about the speaker wire changed, but asked what his dad did to the stereo. *He stated that it sounded better!*


Were you there when his son said it? If not it sounds like an audiofool trying to justify his $ cable...


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

WLDock said:


> While I have yet to self experiment with expensive cables I do have acouple of stories I've heard years ago.
> 
> The other story that sticks with me is SQ local Anthony Davis stating that years ago Ron Buffington's old BMW 318Ti had an almost 4-dimensional sound stage. Ron swears that the ultra expensive MIT interconnects and speaker cables were a big factor in the sound of that car.
> 
> I have yet to experience these things but some have...who am I to tell them that they did not?


 
Walt, I'm not using the speaker cables I posted earlier... 

Pay shipping there and back (or come up and get them....dam) and I'll be happy to let you try them and judge yourself... 

IIRC back in the mid-90's when this was GIVEN to me (dude got his cables shortened) that **** was like 65$/foot...!!! 

LMK...


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## etang789 (Oct 12, 2010)

I use these

RCA cable: Belden 8412
RCA connector: Neutrik Profi


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

8412 is huge

8413 is thinner portable but I'd personally rock 8451 (I use the Gepco equivalent)


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

The Baron Groog said:


> Were you there when his son said it? If not it sounds like an audiofool trying to justify his $ cable...


Well, this was about 24 years ago..no I was not there at his house listening to the system. However, yes his son was present when they were talking about this at the shop.

While I doubt that I would personally spend that much for cables...I would not call guys that spend big bucks on home audio fools....because many of them are calling us fools for what we spend on car audio.

*Look at it this way*....many of us audio buffs have better awareness of audio detail than the average Joe. Just maybe there are some gifted audio buffs that have better awareness than the average audio buff? Just maybe? This is the only argument I really have on the subject of product A sounding better than product B.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Walt, I'm not using the speaker cables I posted earlier...
> Pay shipping there and back (or come up and get them....dam) and I'll be happy to let you try them and judge yourself...
> IIRC back in the mid-90's when this was GIVEN to me (dude got his cables shortened) that **** was like 65$/foot...!!!
> LMK...


I might have to take you up on it if I can get Davis to let me use ihis reference system.


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