# TG's Build Log



## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Hello, everyone this is my second post. I'd like to share with you the beginnings of my car audio build, the planning and the execution.

I'd encourage your help along the way. I'm an open book, and I will certainly appreciate any help you all provide.

Let me begin real quick by letting you all know my history with car audio. When I was young and dumb I had some crappy Audiobahn 12's and a Kenwood amp. 10 years later and I realize I had no idea what I was doing and still don't. Now I am 32 with a little more jingle in my pocket(albeit not much more) and a re-budding enthusiasm towards hearing my music better in my vehicle.

What I am looking to get out of this build is good, crisp, clean sound. Also, a nice clean aesthetic. I am a designer by trade it's how I support myself and my family so I want this build to be a reflection of that. I would like to keep the vehicle as close to stock or as close to stock looking as possible.

I drive a 2011 Ford Escape. It's my first "New" car(bought it with 20k on the odo but my previous cars were over the century mark when I got them). Currently it has some Polk DB coax's in the front doors and that is it.

I recently did 1/2 of a "Big 3" upgrade on it and terminated it all with Scosche EFX terminals. The negative side is done; I'm waiting for decent weather to do the plus side.

I've got 1/0 gauge power and ground wire, Knu Crystal RCA's and Knu Twisted 10 gauge speaker wire.

Everything is wrapped in orange and black TechFlex and terminated appropriately with a torch, solder and terminals.

I seriously do not know what equipment I will buy or what the final setup will be.

I have some ideas that I will post in a new post. Again any input; even if it's "No don't do that your an idiot." Please post it, I want to know. I'm not interested in making an expensive mistake.

I will leave you with this. Here are the RCA cables I made. They are Knukonceptz Krystal RCA's that I wrapped in Techflex, shrink wrapped and hand painted the positive terminals orange. (more to come)










Thanks!


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

those polk bd series speakers are great starting points, they sound good out of the box and require little to sound better.

Are you planning to replace the factory radio? if so, that makes your life easier but a lot of newer cars, its impractical to do that so you end up with a dsp unit that will control the soundsystem and clean up the factory headunit's output signal.

that to me is the first major decision I see you making.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Thanks for the input. The Polks are getting the boot. They're going in my girlfriends car. I'm not sure about the factory radio. At first I really wanted to keep it but now I'm kind of torn. I like the way it looks, that it matches the stock trim and is less easy to steal. However, this is pretty sweet too:

Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.

So...I threw this diagram together. Don't laugh it may be completely inaccurate but this is kind of what I had in mind:










This is ballpark what I'm thinking:

1.) *HU*
A.)Stock Head Unit w/ a Processor
B.)That Alpine Unit I showed above
C.)Other Bridgeable HU

2.) *Components*
A.)I don't know?

3.) *Mid Range Fill*
A.)I don't know?

4.) *Amp*
A.)Probably a 4 channel bridged on the sub channel, but not really sure

5.) *Shallow Mount Sub*
A.)SI BM IV or III (Expensive and hard to find)
B.)Sundown Shallow Mount (Don't know much about it)
C.)Hertz 30.5(Expensive and hard to find)
D.)MB Quart Shallow(Cheap, Inferior quality and SQ)

6.) *Sound Processor*(not pictured)
A.)I don't know if I want or need one

So, that's where I stand. Any help on getting this sorted is appreciated.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

what alpine model did you link to? couldn't view it for some reason.

To answer your questions, we need to know some goals. please answer the following questions.

do you want to compete in meca or iasca?

how much space in the cargo area do you need to keep?

how much cutting do you want to do? in doors or in cargo area floor?

budget? entry level $1500, midlevel $4000 or balls out $6 7 k?


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

The Alpine is the Apple CarPlay iLX-007.

My first post should help with some of that.

See:


> What I am looking to get out of this build is good, crisp, clean sound. Also, a nice clean aesthetic. I am a designer by trade it's how I support myself and my family so I want this build to be a reflection of that. I would like to keep the vehicle as close to stock or as close to stock looking as possible.


and



> hearing my music better in my vehicle.


No competing, just personal enjoyment, pride of ownership and great music that sounds f'in' awesome.

I'd like to maintain the stock floor height in the rear if at all possible and as much of the cargo area as possible, that is why I suggested a shallow mount sub. I'm not afraid of cutting as long as a.) it doesn't mess up the integrity of the vehicle and b.) it remains stock looking. As for budget I'm on the low end of that spectrum. I was thinking $800 for amp and speakers and a few hundred more for the HU or SP.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

ah yes, I didn't read the first post completel, though I thought I did at the time..

alpine headunit, powerbass asa1100.5 with the first 4 channels bridged into re xxx components and one of the pioneer shallow 12 subs on the fifth channel. 

I like powerbass as an entry level car amp that performs way better than an entry level car amp, I like the re components cause they have testies and that's really important to me, lightweight sound that you cant feel sometimes just never does it for me, and the pioneer shallow subs are some of the nicer cheap subs that consistently do well.

in a non competition build for around 1k, that's what I'd personally do.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Hi Matt, thanks for making this thread. This will be much better than PM's because you'll get much smarter people than me to help 

As we were talking about, I have an amp that may suit you. We can talk more about that later but it would be enough to power a front set of woofers, and a sub, no issue. It would also not necessarily need much power so this will help the charging system keep up.

Yes I was suggesting possibly to use the Sundown SD2 or SD3. Despite not being a "shallow" sub, it actually ends up fitting in lots of applications, without issue. 

It has been many moons since I built the Tribute/Escape systems that I've done, and so I don't remember all the measurements from the work I did. But here's the pic of my trunk deadened up and ready for a build. Does yours look exactly the same in shape?











edit: 

I found some old pics of some of the parts I installed in my Tribute, so I have some prelim measurements for consideration. Here we go:

This was a sub box I used in one build, here it is partially torn down to refurbish and refit with new subs, it was 6" tall. 









It had a simple fiberglass bottom and had a usable depth of a little under 4 1/2"










Here it is, refurbished with a new top and carpet, back in the Tribute with an amp rack.









It housed the SI subs









And had a simple top cover to make a "false floor"












The low depth means even the SD3 may be out if we're going to end up at stock height. I think the only contender left would be the Alpine Type R. I built a box with one for another Escape/Tribute member and it turned out great. Here's a pic:









It is all starting to come back to me, lol. Man that was way back in the years.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

And I think what you might want to do first is settle on a processor. Because with most processors, we'll need to plan out enough amplifier channels to handle what you want. With the MS-8, that will have some amp channels onboard for your rears, maybe your tweeters, etc. So that changes the way you'll plan the system. 

Personally, I like MS-8's and have used them many times, so I'm inclined to recommend that for the fact it would be a more simple install.

But going with a different processor is completely OK, you'll just need to plan your amp channel increase around that.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Lycancatt said:


> ah yes, I didn't read the first post completel, though I thought I did at the time..
> 
> alpine headunit, powerbass asa1100.5 with the first 4 channels bridged into re xxx components and one of the pioneer shallow 12 subs on the fifth channel.
> 
> ...


Dude, awesome thank you so much for the input. I like some of these suggestions especially since it keeps everything on budget. I hadn't considered the Pioneers yet so I will throw that in the mix for consideration for sure and at roughly $100 that's a hard to beat price.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Fourth! Those are the pics that are legendary in that other forum...










I love that build every time I see it. I like the Sundowns because they're beefy and they look like a sub that would get loud. However, maintaining the stock height is important to me so they may be out of the question.

I hadn't considered the Alpines Type R's yet but I'm afraid I might blow my whole wad on just one sub. They are certainly pricey.

Minus the deadening material my trunk currently looks just like your old Tribby trunk. I can snap a pic this weekend.

As far as the sound processor. I have some questions.

1.) Is this an if/or sort of thing? Meaning if I keep my stock radio I will need a SP? If I don't and I go with the Alpine or Pioneer Apple Car Play I won't?

2.) Does a SP offer more channels? So, if I had a D class amp and fed it into a SP would that mean more channels?

I'm going to do some quality reading on it and get all learn-ed up on soundprocessors. Right now I was thinking one 4 or 5 channel amp and either a SP or a head unit but not both(that is if my instinct serves me; but I really don't know how they work). I really don't want more than 1 amp if I can avoid it.


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## abusiveDAD (Jan 7, 2009)

Fng gross gif


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

if you keep your factory headunit you will likely need a sound processor, if only to get a clean signal out of it, however it would offer a lot more tuning flexibility.

a sound processor will not add more channels to an amp, it will want more channels of amplification after it in the audio chain to take advantage of its extra tuning features.

I don't think I'd run one in your case unless you keep the stock radio.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

also, the type r subs are not expensive, 10s go for around $160 each which isn't bad at all.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Here's the cheapest one I was able to find with a simple search:

Alpine SWR T12 12 inch Single 4 Ohm Shallow Mount Car Audio Subwoofer 613815576563 | eBay

You are right though the 10's are incredibly cheaper. What gives?

Ouch!


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

your right on the 12s, but I wasn't referring to the shallows, i was thinking of the normal type r but that would require a higher cargo floor.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I'll model the 10 and 12 later on in WinISD and show the graphs. Then you can decide on which one will work better given the space available. If I recall, the one I did for one of the Escape forum guys was a 10". 

And lol at the drool pic. That was back around 2008-2010, I've grown a lot in doing this stuff, mostly by making mistakes and learning as I go.

OK stand by, going to model subs brb


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

OK, done. Yes, I would run the 10's for sure. Here's the graph









That plot is SPL, plotted at 300W so you can tell the 12" really doesn't have an obvious advantage, despite needing much more space. 2.0 cubic feet is what I plotted.



The blue line is the 10, and it is coming in at a near perfect .707 Qtc in a 1.02 cubic foot box. So essentially,


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Oh man, you rock. I think I've got a pretty good grasp on what you did there. How hard and time consuming is it for you to run that program? If it's not a PITA, for ****s and giggles could you run the Pioneer shallows that Lycancatt suggested in a 10 and a 12; TS-SW3002S4 and TS-SW2502S4.

I'm just asking because if the difference is negligible I might be intrigued to go with those because they cost half as much?

Otherwise I will probably go with that Shallow Type R 10. Thanks once again!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> Oh man, you rock. I think I've got a pretty good grasp on what you did there. How hard and time consuming is it for you to run that program? If it's not a PITA, for ****s and giggles could you run the Pioneer shallows that Lycancatt suggested in a 10 and a 12; TS-SW3002S4 and TS-SW2502S4.
> 
> I'm just asking because if the difference is negligible I might be intrigued to go with those because they cost half as much?
> 
> Otherwise I will probably go with that Shallow Type R 10. Thanks once again!



Oh WinISD? Its easy as long as you enter in the params properly which is the only "trick" to it. But if you DL it, be sure to DL the Alpha version .7.0.900

BTW, while playing with ideas, I've been running through the Dayton shallow subs and they are coming out pretty great so far. Its like a simpler Type R. A pair of the Daytons in 10" would work out pretty nice in a 1.5 cubic foot box with 500W of power. 

I'll play with those Pioneers in a bit.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Cool I will look into the Daytons. Honestly I was only thinking of running one sub but I will consider 2 as long as it fits into budget and I can keep the floor height.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Oh man I like the Dayton's and I like the price. Are they discontinued?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Dayton Audio LS10-44 10" Low Profile Subwoofer Dual 4 Ohm No its a new product, says so anyway.

The Nissan review is promising in there.

I think you could run two without any issue, especially if you are trying to get that 4 ohm final load for a bridged 4 channel amp like mine or similar. Just one would be fine too but you'd probably want to focus on a different amp, like a low power monoblock that makes good power into 2 ohms. But SPL-wise, I think you'd appreciate a pair.

You could pick up a pair of those Auras for the rear channels while you're there Aura 5700RPM 5" x 7" 2-way Coaxial Speaker Pair 

They also stock some parts you can use for for the build, like the grilles 10" Bar Grill Black if you want to do something similar to what I've done for a few stealth builds. I take these grilles (not sure why Parts Express calls them "grills", as it is not grammatically correct but w/e), Anyway, the idea is to take the grille max height and match it with some wood form, so it takes the pressure/weight off the grille when you install your factory floor covering or some aftermarket one like a rubber mat. Here's two examples in recent builds I've done:

This is in a Flex









Final height matches so seats can flip and fold down without issue, grille and wood take force equally










Here's in my Focus ST

















And here it is (before cleaning my mess), with the factory floor covering just like stock, at the stock height.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

> Dayton Audio LS10-44 10" Low Profile Subwoofer Dual 4 Ohm No its a new product, says so anyway.
> 
> The Nissan review is promising in there.
> 
> ...


Man, these installs are so clean. I was planning on recessing them into the floor just like that as well.

Just about everything I've read on this forum about those Daytons hasn't been the rosiest. It's giving me second thoughts. I know I gotta **** or get off the pot but I'm kinda interested in seeing some more of those graphs. I'm torn actually now I think between 2 of the Type R 10's and 2 of these Dayton 10's assuming they performed pretty well when you charted them. I went back and researched x-max's on the Pioneers and the Daytons get double what the Pioneers get. I know that's not everything, but double x-max and cheaper to boot!

The Daytons are cheap enough that I can get 2, not break the bank and spend the money elsewhere like a high quality components set.

Are there any Mac alternatives to WinISD, not to beat a dead horse but I only have a PC at work and while I did throw it on my machine I haven't been able to break away long enough to give it a real go.

I'd really just like to see the graphs for the Daytons and the Pioneers because they are more within my price range but I know it's kinda a PITA. Maybe I will see if I can't throw down on WinISD at some point manana.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Hmm, can you link me to some of the Dayton sub reviews you are referencing? I'm going blind on them. I have used the Alpine 10 shallow (as shown from the build) but not the Daytons. 

A pair of the R's would be great, but I would suggest trying to do a fiberglass bottom to get your depth target. With the Dayton 10" I think you could do it all in wood because they are more shallow.

Oh and almost forgot, there's a Peerless shallow sub under $100 on clearance. They handle less power but they are super-shallow, need a little more space (about a cubic foot each will be fine), and are more efficient so they virtually match the output chart of the Alpine units. But, if you have the power, the Alpines will surpass all of them, due to the much higher excursion. 

I think you could do a windows emulation for WinISD, but not sure. 

I'll go work on the Pioneers.



TexasGator said:


> Man, these installs are so clean. I was planning on recessing them into the floor just like that as well.
> 
> Just about everything I've read on this forum about those Daytons hasn't been the rosiest. It's giving me second thoughts. I know I gotta **** or get off the pot but I'm kinda interested in seeing some more of those graphs. I'm torn actually now I think between 2 of the Type R 10's and 2 of these Dayton 10's assuming they performed pretty well when you charted them. I went back and researched x-max's on the Pioneers and the Daytons get double what the Pioneers get. I know that's not everything, but double x-max and cheaper to boot!
> 
> ...


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

The Pioneers are not even in the same league as the others we're talking about here.

They measure extremely poorly.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Also, IF they will fit, the mighty JBL GTO804 sub x 4 (yes, 4) would be a sweet setup as well. Also about 1.3 cubic feet for all 4, semi-shallow, simple but excellent-sounding, etc. 

So when I said they are similar, here's what I mean










...the Pioneer is the little under-performer in there.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Hey Fourth what about Alpines' regular shallow mount? The SWT-10S4? Type R's are way outta the price range; cheapest I can find one 10 is almost 3 bills.

Seems the SWT-10S4 have similar specs as the Daytons, handle slightly more power and are around the same price.

If those are good performing subs I think I could swing them for sure.

With the Daytons it was mainly people complaining about box size and how they were set up for home audio. Here is one:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/169013-new-dayton-shallow-subwoofers-feedback.html

Also, your chart doesn't get very big on my computer. If I'm reading it right it looks like the Daytons are hanging right in there with the Type R's is this the case? Seems kinda odd considering the Type R's have 5mm more of x-max?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> Hey Fourth what about Alpines' regular shallow mount? The SWT-10S4? Type R's are way outta the price range; cheapest I can find one 10 is almost 3 bills.
> 
> Seems the SWT-10S4 have similar specs as the Daytons, handle slightly more power and are around the same price.
> 
> ...



That thread was inconclusive and speculative only. I agree on the 12, but the 10 is right in the sweet spot for your needs (just via modeling.) 


I tested the other SWT subs, and they sit smack-dab in the middle of that chart, just FYI.

All of them are viable contenders. 500W maxes out a pair of them in a 2 cubic foot box.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

You've sold me. I'm going to order the Daytons. 4 subs is too much for me and after I posted I realized that the SWT's need a whole extra inch of mounting depth.

Dam that was like pulling teeth, thanks for pulling me through.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> You've sold me. I'm going to order the Daytons. 4 subs is too much for me and after I posted I realized that the SWT's need a whole extra inch of mounting depth.
> 
> Dam that was like pulling teeth, thanks for pulling me through.


Well they will be a test, because we don't know how good or bad they will do. You may end up loving them, or you may end up not loving them, but we'll not know until you try them out. That said, I'll work on a few box ideas.

Just FYI I ran a pair in a vented model but I think you'd find it would be too much space wasted. However if you did want to go with a vented design, I'll be happy to model one in 3D. We'd need about 2.5 cubic feet.

I ran a pair in a 1.3 cubic foot box sealed, and this actually looks ideal. You don't need to make it that big but if you do, you gain some extension in the lower bass range and you're still within Xmax even with 500W. Note, I modeled in a 6dB/oct infrasonic highpass filter at 20Hz since most processors will have one. 

With a pair you can get either down to 1 ohm or you can go to 4 ohms. Maybe you can find a powerful 5 channel amp with a 1 ohm sub channel, or go with separates (Assuming they are small.) Hey you can go with Arc XDi 600.1 and the 804 combo, I was playing on eBay and they are quite affordable. 

Another, perhaps more powerful option, may be the Pioneer class D units. The GM-D8604 and GM-D8601. That combo should cost under $300 and this is one thing that Pioneer DOES do right.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm going to hold off on the amp for a minute. Next Week I'm going to order the subs and a bunch of resin/mat from US Composites to do the false floor. I would've ordered everything but I'm going to ATL on Wed. on business and I didn't want to order the stuff and me not be there to receive it.

Any Idea, ballpark what kind of shopping list I'm going to need? I.e. how much mat? How much resin? I will throw up some measurements when I get home.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I think you should first attempt to build it without fiberglass.

The Daytons are very shallow and shouldn't need the extra space the fiberglass bottom would give.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Tell ya what, let me see if I still have my files on how this floor measures in Sketch3D. If I have them, I can model up an enclosure purely out of wood, and then you'll know if it will work or not. I feel it absolutely will.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

I got you, "Keep it Simple Stupid". Take the path of least resistance and I would but here's my problem. When I do the math on an MDF box it gives me .43" behind the woofer. This doesn't seem like enough air space. Am I wrong?

Check out what I drew up:










and...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm wondering if I just went with 1/2" MDF on the bottom only that'd give me almost 3/4" of vent space on the backside and I think that might suffice. But I could be completely wrong. I want to do mdf because it'll save me money and hassle I just don't know if it is feasible?

Also, I saw one of your graphs earlier and this may be a stupid question but it said 1.5ft3 for 1 sub or both? And if for both, would their be a divider so .75ft3 each or 1.5ft3 shared? Also, was that for a sealed enclosure or vented/ported?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> I'm wondering if I just went with 1/2" MDF on the bottom only that'd give me almost 3/4" of vent space on the backside and I think that might suffice. But I could be completely wrong. I want to do mdf because it'll save me money and hassle I just don't know if it is feasible?
> 
> Also, I saw one of your graphs earlier and this may be a stupid question but it said 1.5ft3 for 1 sub or both? And if for both, would their be a divider so .75ft3 each or 1.5ft3 shared? Also, was that for a sealed enclosure or vented/ported?


You can go with 1/2" MDF, but I don't think you'll need to. You have more depth of space than your picture shows. I think you have another 2" if I remember right. 

You'll want ~3/4" vent space behind the sub, just keep that in mind. The air space will be shared, about 1.3 cubic feet. This sealed, ported gives more low end response but it takes ~double the space. I think you'll like what the pair of subs sealed can do, when you take into account cabin gain.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

I measured pretty well tonight and it looked like I could only get 5.25" total height out of the cargo area, maybe 5.5" but that'd be pushing it. As long as you think 3/4" will be enough behind the sub I think I will go this route.

What a relief! Soooooooooo much easier than fiberglass. I will probably do 1/2" on the bottom just to be safe. I will let eveyone know when the subs come in and keep everyone updated on how the install is going as well. Thanks again, you don't even know how much of an aid everyone has been.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> I measured pretty well tonight and it looked like I could only get 5.25" total height out of the cargo area, maybe 5.5" but that'd be pushing it. As long as you think 3/4" will be enough behind the sub I think I will go this route.
> 
> What a relief! Soooooooooo much easier than fiberglass. I will probably do 1/2" on the bottom just to be safe. I will let eveyone know when the subs come in and keep everyone updated on how the install is going as well. Thanks again, you don't even know how much of an aid everyone has been.



I went looking through my historical files, but I can't find the measurements of the trunk. 

If you can measure that, I can design a 3D model to give you a workable idea if you want. What I would need is the total usable space to the final factory floor height, how much of that is in the well, and how much of that is above that. L W H, how the angle works on the side near the tailgate with its more shallow depth, etc. 

But yeah, I'm confident you can build this just out of wood. I remember factory floor had a large plastic spacer which approximated the hybrid model's battery, and that's why there's so much space.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Did you see my post 4 posts back? It has all of that in the images I posted. but here's the simplified form(Okay maybe not that simple)...

Total Cargo Area: 42"W x 35"L (this is the whole usable area of the trunk, minus the curvature of the wheel wells. I did not account for those I just went where the plastic lip would remain flush; kinda hard to explain)

Area of recessed Well: 32"W x 28.5"L

Area of Well before it transitions into a lower overall height: 32"W x 20"L(Towards the back of the trunk the height cuts in half. This area would not be suitable for subs, so the usable area for a box length and height wise would be 32"W x 20"L)

As for height from the very bottom to where the trim meets we are looking at 5.25" high. I measured this 2 ways and came up with the same result.

I measured by placing a flat surface perpendicular to the wheel well panels and measuring from the floor to the bottom of that flat surface.

I also measured the OEM tub that houses the jack. Here is what I came up with: 1/8" plastic on bottom + 5 1/8" from where the jack sits at the very bottom to the top most part of the plastic.

In parting I'm pretty sure the total usable height is indeed 5.25".

Thanks!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Oh sweet, I'll get to work



TexasGator said:


> Did you see my post 4 posts back? It has all of that in the images I posted. but here's the simplified form(Okay maybe not that simple)...
> 
> Total Cargo Area: 42"W x 35"L (this is the whole usable area of the trunk, minus the curvature of the wheel wells. I did not account for those I just went where the plastic lip would remain flush; kinda hard to explain)
> 
> ...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

If I'm doing everything right(and that is sceptical) based off of the 1.3ft. Cu. that you put forth then from my calcs I will need a box with an internal volume of roughly:

5.25"h x 14.5"l x 30"w

However, I will certainly hold out for your exact specs. This is awesome it's giving me a minor chub just thinking about the potential!


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Oops, that wasn't calculating top and bottom. Here's my new estimate based on 1.3 internal volume:

4" H x 19" L x 30" W


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I've been drawing for a while now, and I just realized that the Dayton shallow sub appears to be NOT vented from behind. Ergo, it may just sit right in the box, no space behind it needed. I see radial vents all around the sides, similar to the Sundown SD2 and 3 subs. So, I think you can get away with going that short.

So, here's the math. A 20" long x 30" wide with an angle in the floor to compensate for how the trunk curves in the pan (to get the most air space) comes out to be 1248.67 cu in, assuming internal measurements. This is for an enclosure only 3 3/4" tall, final height (before top section including grille.) I did that just to get the smallest box that would fit the sub, given the sub's under 3" mounting depth and radial vents not needing space underneath. But 1248.67 cu in is .723 cubic feet, which is suitable for ONE of these subs, but not two. So, every 3/4" height increased in the box, you'll gain 423.1875 cu in of space. So a box that is 4.25" tall is .968 cubic feet, and one that is 5" tall (which is going to start infringing on your final height w/ a grille installed) is 1.212 cubic feet, and this will probably be where you end up. However, you can recess the sub in the box a bit because of the low depth requirement, and if you do that I think you can make this work perfectly. 

BTW, we want a little bigger box if possible to compensate for bracing, and the subs themselves. Now you'll probably poly-fil the box so there's some fudge-factor of about 10% that can be made, but the bigger the better up to a point in this situation due to how these subs work up to their Xmax vs. the power you're likely to give them.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

And so it starts...










Wiring will be going in tomorrow.

Picked up 3 sheets of 1/2" mdf today. I decided I'm going to laminate 2 sheets to get to a full inch on the top and just a 1/2" on the bottom this will allow me maximum volume for these subs to perform. The sides will all be 3/4" mdf and I will probably run a 3/4" brace right down the middle.

Here's the measurements:

External
32"w x 20"l x 5.25"h 

Internal
30.5"w x 18.5"l x 3.75"h

=2115.9375 in3 or 1.2245 ft3 (not counting any bracing)

Which is pretty dam close to what Fourth suggested. Thanks again.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

It looks good, but I wouldn't physically build the box until you have the subs in your hand.

You'll be able to tell if they need zero depth or not, and you'll be able to see how much excursion space you need to leave them up on the top side.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm not just getting ready that is all.

I've got a minor problem though. I ran speaker wire and power wire today down the drivers side and I had one hell of a time getting it all back together again. The Knu twisted pair 10gauge speaker wire I received was larger than I was expecting it is pretty much 1/0 with the shielding. Panels were fitting back on like ****.

So, I want to re-do it; I'm not satisfied...can I run the speaker wire down both driver and passenger sides and run my RCA's down the passenger side of my center console and my power wire down the driver side of my center console? They'd be about a foot apart and would never cross paths?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> I'm not just getting ready that is all.
> 
> I've got a minor problem though. I ran speaker wire and power wire today down the drivers side and I had one hell of a time getting it all back together again. The Knu twisted pair 10gauge speaker wire I received was larger than I was expecting it is pretty much 1/0 with the shielding. Panels were fitting back on like ****.
> 
> So, I want to re-do it; I'm not satisfied...can I run the speaker wire down both driver and passenger sides and run my RCA's down the passenger side of my center console and my power wire down the driver side of my center console? They'd be about a foot apart and would never cross paths?



First thing, you will never need 10 gauge through the front stage. 10 gauge is suitable for speaker power in the many hundreds of watts continuous. I order all my speaker wire through Monoprice, always the sheathed white cover type (used for in-wall home audio) and I usually run 4 conductor for runs where I'm tapping a processor to factory wiring or similar, and I use 16 gauge 4 conductor. I also like using the same wire to run subwoofers or high power front woofers by simply twisting two of the conductors together which creates a larger gauge just the same as buying it separate. So I usually buy large rolls of 4 conductor 16 gauge, and 2 conductor 16 gauge, and run that. For the runs through the door for example, 4 conductor 16 gauge would go through the door for the woofer and the tweeter, and split off in the door.

And as for runs through the truck, yes you can split things up and probably should. I typically run my signal wires through the center line, power on one of the edges, and when they need to cross they do so at 90 degree angles if possible.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Looking forward to seeing the box built. Good start so far.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Thanks for the reply. It's too late on the 10 gauge. I've done too much work to go back on it now. Would this be at the detriment of this system; meaning everything should still function just fine if I leave it?

I think I'm going to pull out the power and run it down the middle but separate it from the RCA's for sure though. It's just not sitting under the paneling right.

Is it a good idea to line this sub box? Was thinking about ordering some of this stuff but I figured I'd ask first.

http://www.parts-express.com/acry-tech-acoust-x-1-gallon-absorption-coating-paintable-damping-material--260-105


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

The 10 gauge is fine and won't cause issues (other than packaging it in the car), its just extreme overkill on a segment of the build that just doesn't warrant it. I'd recommend keeping it for your future builds for all your subwoofer boxes in the future, w/e, its your call. Good Monoprice wire is cheap.

As far as the damping material, its fine but probably not needed if you brace the box properly. I've had great luck building with lots of bracing like wooden dowel rod (clothes hanger rod works). I've been known to spray the inside of a box with sound deadener but usually just a really well-made box works fine.







TexasGator said:


> Thanks for the reply. It's too late on the 10 gauge. I've done too much work to go back on it now. Would this be at the detriment of this system; meaning everything should still function just fine if I leave it?
> 
> I think I'm going to pull out the power and run it down the middle but separate it from the RCA's for sure though. It's just not sitting under the paneling right.
> 
> ...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Cool, cool. I'm getting a little discouraged and I'm feeling like fiberglass unfortunately may be inevitable. I noticed in the right top corner there is a hump that protrudes from the floor plan, it's minor, probably a max elevation of 1/2" but I would need to somehow build around it in order for the box to sit in level.

I was thinking about building a step in that corner of the box with MDF compromising valuable airspace. What do yal think?

Or should I do all mdf and just glass that corner or go full on fiberglass?

Man, thought it was going to be relatively simple but it seems like it just got a little bit harder.

Or, get this...I wanted to put an amp rack for the 4 or 5 channel amp at the front of the cargo area(right where you open the lift gate). I could potentially build an irregular shaped box by building the box around the amp, essentially building a box that doubles as a rack? Of course I'd need to know the exact measurements of the amp I'm going to run before I could do this. I'm going to draw up something so you all can see what I'm talking about.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

I don't have CAD so I threw this together real quick in Illustrator, it is super crude. Am I onto something here?










Thanks in advance!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

You can gain a tiny bit of airspace this way, but not very much. That's because you have 3/4" top, 3/4" bottom, so that's 1.5". You've got about 2" in total height, so the air space would be negligible. Also, that air will be restricted so it won't work like a normal air spring which is its purpose. 

But I think you should buy the subs, verify they are capable of a flat mount, and if they are you will NOT need to fiberglass. Any raised section, you simply cut it out and then install a piece of wood above and glue/nail. I have to do this all the time in these trunk false-floor builds. Yes, the space gets taken up but if these subs are bottom-flat mountable, you'll have tons of space. More than almost any other option out there. 

Don't fret over a lack of "ideal" space. The design that I measured is close to ideal and you should be happy with the resulting response, especially with the interior poly-stuffed. 

Google Sketch, the program I use, is free. You look very crafty with your drawings so I bet you'd get the hang of it pretty darn quick!


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Yeah I've used SketchUp before. I'm just faster in Illustrator.

I'm probably bugging the crap outta this forum and especially you Fourth but I'm learning a ton along the way.

I'm going to scrap my 10 gauge, that was an expensive mistake and go with the Monoprice you suggested, however I have a question. You mentioned 2 conductor and 4 conductor?

I'm thinking of going with GASP...passive components for now. If I like how everything turns out I might work in an active system at some point. If I go passive, I should only need 2 conductor wire correct? Because the two terminals will run into a passive crossover and then the tweeter terminals and mid terminals will run off the crossover, right? Thanks as always.

Also, I didn't know that about the restricted space. I will keep that in consideration. You've backed me up from the ledge; I was getting worried with that hump but I think I will just build it the way I originally intended.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

No need to scrap it, you can pull it and save it for other situations. I have pulled and reused wire from builds back in the early 2000's again and again, without issue. Its wire, and especially if you sheathe it in techflex, it will pretty much last forever. I buy all my techflex from Furryletters on eBay, just love the stuff.

So yeah, it won't be wasted, you'll just save it for later builds (and of course your sub build here.

If you run passives, I would install them in the amp rack area. It would then be much easier to convert (use barrier strips and it will be VERY easy), and they'll live a better life back there vs. the door. 

So here's what I order (these are smaller rolls, but you get the idea.)
100ft 16AWG CL2 Rated 2-Conductor Oxygen-Free Pure Bare Copper Speaker Wire Cable (For In-Wall Installation) - Monoprice.com

100ft 16AWG CL2 Rated 4-Conductor Oxygen-Free Pure Bare Copper Speaker Wire Cable (For In-Wall Installation) - Monoprice.com

Again you won't use all of it right away, but you will have it when you need it for future builds. As you can probably tell, it is very affordable stuff. Also, if you ever need it, they sell pretty good RCA cables too. I buy these in different lengths for some builds when I don't want to build my own cables. Those aren't always efficient.
1.5ft Premium 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M 22AWG Cable - Black - Monoprice.com





TexasGator said:


> Yeah I've used SketchUp before. I'm just faster in Illustrator.
> 
> I'm probably bugging the crap outta this forum and especially you Fourth but I'm learning a ton along the way.
> 
> ...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Barrier strips? I know what they are but I have no idea how I'd use them in this situation. I'm sure I missed the boat, not only have I missed it I probably sunk it at this point. Here's me trying to make sense of it. I'm sure I'm way way way, took the boat to a desert island OFFF...

Way 1










Way 2










Or, man TG you couldn't be any more off. I'll keep reading and googling and searching this forum.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Its option 1, sorta. But the output from the passive crossover will already be split. The wiring you run from the doors will go to the barrier strip, and the barrier strip will connect to the crossover. Later, if you want to switch to active control, you just wire the barrier strip to the amp instead of the crossover. The idea is use them instead of forcing yourself to use other techniques like soldering (quite permanent), or having to rewire everything just for upgrading to an active arrangement or for that matter if you want to say flip polarity on a speaker. You don't NEED them, they just make it convenient to fool with your setup without having to spend lots of time rewiring for little changes. 

Fry's here in Vegas sells them, but they are on Darvex, eBay, and tons of other places. So too are the fork terminals to connect your wiring. In my current setup which is still in the rebuild/perfecting stage, I have 3 barrier strips / terminal blocks in action. One takes the outputs from the stock head unit so I can connect with the MS-8. One handles the MS-8's on-board outputs to the rear speakers. Last one handles the outputs of the amp to the factory speaker wiring. 

You should relax man, you're doing great. 



TexasGator said:


> Barrier strips? I know what they are but I have no idea how I'd use them in this situation. I'm sure I missed the boat, not only have I missed it I probably sunk it at this point. Here's me trying to make sense of it. I'm sure I'm way way way, took the boat to a desert island OFFF...
> 
> Way 1
> 
> ...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Got it!!!


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

So I'd like to share with you all some of the progress I've made. I got the Dayton 10's in on Tuesday and here is what I've been working on.




























They look super cool with the fiberglass cone, looks like carbon fiber and they are really low profile.










Just starting out on building the box, cutting some notches for the raised floor corner.










Test fitting the base, I'm going to router the corners so that it sits flat and brace them as well.



















New speaker wire also came in so I switched gears at one point and worked on them for a minute.



















Test fitting some of the enclosures' side pieces.










As you can see; this is where I'm having to raise the box off the floor to compensate for about a 1 inch rise in the floor pan.

I'll post more as I make progress...


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Awesome! Really pro work all around.

Looks like the Dayton sub will lay flat against the box without any issue, which will help a lot.

Digging this one so far for sure. I love the speaker wire work most of all so far.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

> Awesome! Really pro work all around.
> 
> Looks like the Dayton sub will lay flat against the box without any issue, which will help a lot.
> 
> Digging this one so far for sure. I love the speaker wire work most of all so far.


Thanks Fourth; means a lot coming from you. Should get a lot more done over the weekend. I believe the Daytons will indeed lay flat, but they won't need to. They'll get clearance on the bottom either way; at least an inch by my current calculation.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> Thanks Fourth; means a lot coming from you. Should get a lot more done over the weekend. I believe the Daytons will indeed lay flat, but they won't need to. They'll get clearance on the bottom either way; at least an inch by my current calculation.


You could use that advantage in space to sink the sub in to your design and protect the sub better. Example, you could do a double-layer top and rout out the top side.

Keep them pics coming!


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Actually, the inch space *is* with a recessed flush mount. I will be laminating 2 pieces of mdf for the top of the box. Plan on flushing them so the floor sits slightly above the top of the speakers so they are protected like you said. Also, chamfered surrounds and I also have a shop press, so planning on making custom stamped speaker grilles.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> Actually, the inch space *is* with a recessed flush mount. I will be laminating 2 pieces of mdf for the top of the box. Plan on flushing them so the floor sits slightly above the top of the speakers so they are protected like you said. Also, chamfered surrounds and I also have a shop press, so planning on making custom stamped speaker grilles.


Hot damn! I may have you make me some and send them out then. Having nice equipment makes the job so much easier and more fun.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Sure thing just lemme know.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Minor update.

So it's pouring outside and I wasn't able to do any more cutting so I concentrated on getting the pieces I did have cut prepped for the Acoust-X Absorption coating for the inside of the enclosure. I also did some more cable work.



















This is me being OCD. I don't want to put sound deadener on any of the joints. I want to make sure they get a clean bind on assembly so I masked everything I don't want to get the Acoust-X on.










This is what will be going inside.



















Test. Dam I need to sweep; short haired dogs got her fur everywhere.










Worked on cable a bit, was using this as a measuring stick. 



















Certainly not the best pics of the wiring. One speaker cable is about 90% and the other is about 50%. These are getting to be a PITA but I think they'll be worth it. Also, I ran the separate 4 conductor wires a bit long because I've got kind of a different plan for the tweeters down the road and I had to double wrap the Techflex on the main part because too much white was showing through..

Until next time...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Also, I need to start talking amplifier soon. Anyone have a good suggestion?

Here's the short list:

Alpine PDX-9
Zuki Class D 5 Channel (more $ than I wanted to spend)
Zed Leviathan III 5 Channel (more $ than I wanted to spend)

I know these are cream of the crop. Honestly if I could get out the door w/ 1 single 5 or 6 channel amplifier for around $400 - $450 that was a good performer and not garbage I'd be a happy camper.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Have the space for these Soundstreams? They would be some high quality choices for not much money. 

http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174165


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

teldzc1 said:


> Have the space for these Soundstreams? They would be some high quality choices for not much money.
> 
> Soundstream Ref 4.920 & 2.640 PPI BK 800.4 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum
> 
> ...


I'd certainly consider these, I just don't think I'd have room.

Another update:




























I'm laminating the corner braces in these pics.










Without the top.










With the top except I still need to cut the holes obviously for the subs and it will sit flush once it's all put together.










Finishing all the masking on before the Acoust-X goes on.










And here we go...










I used this textured roller because you want a thick high build of the Acoust-X per it's instructions. I guess the more stipple the better absorption of ressonance.










And here are all the panels coated in the Acoust-X

Tomorrow it is on to assembly; minus the top and probably the front edge.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

3 comments...

1. super clean work there...love seeing this much attention to detail on build logs

2. illustrator work is great, and if you are calling that "super rough"...wanna come to Vermont and work for me?

3. Looks at the arc audio xdi amps...i think you will be impressed.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Arc XDi or if you can score some, Arc KS. I picked up a used 900.6 and its a monster. Arc is my new favorite amp brand.

Zuki and Zed are all really nice, but yes they run a grip.

On the budget side, Pioneer's fullrange D amps. They are *quite good*, and cheap.

Let's see if I can get some links (note, I'm not vouching for the sellers, just trying to get some ideas in links:

Arc XDi 650.1 Arc Audio XDI650 1 650 Watt Monoblock Amplifier XDI New | eBay

Arc XDi 450.4 Arc Audio XDI 450 4 Amp 4 Channel 500W RMS Motorcycle Car Speakers Amplifier New | eBay

Arc XDi 600.1 (previous gen) XDI600 1 Arc Audio 600W RMS Amp Monoblock Speakers Subwoofers Bass Amplifier New | eBay

Arc XDi 804 (previous gen) http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARC-AUDIO-X...823?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e9a84bb37



Pioneer 8604 4ch Pioneer® GM D8604 Class FD 4 CH Digital Amp Speaker Sub AMPLIFIER*1 200W New | eBay

Pioner 8601 mono Pioneer GM D8601 Class D Mono Amplifier with Wired Bass Boost Remote | eBay


A few other ideas are Clarion, Eclipse if you can find them, maybe a set of Cerwin Vega g/h class amps, something like that...or even Kenwood eXcelon which are usually quite good.

edit: Not sure if it is out of the budget or size needs, but Arc KS 300.4 and a 300.2 would have enough oomph for sure.



You need a 1ohm or 4ohm subwoofer capability, so that also sways which recommendations to make.





TexasGator said:


> Also, I need to start talking amplifier soon. Anyone have a good suggestion?
> 
> Here's the short list:
> 
> ...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

miniSQ said:


> 3 comments...
> 
> 1. super clean work there...love seeing this much attention to detail on build logs
> 
> ...


Thank you very very much for your kind words. I don't want to cut any corners and I'm glad you all can appreciate it. MiniSQ what do you do? Also, I do really like those Arc amps; was noticing a bunch of good deals on Ebay.



fourthmeal said:


> Arc XDi or if you can score some, Arc KS. I picked up a used 900.6 and its a monster. Arc is my new favorite amp brand.
> 
> Zuki and Zed are all really nice, but yes they run a grip.
> 
> ...


Man, Fourth once again thanks for coming through. You just did a bunch of legwork for me and I appreciate it. I will give these the once over; there's just so many options. I'm looking at approximately no wider than a 28" wide footprint. No matter if it is only one 5 channel or two amps can't be any wider. I will of course let yal know which one I roll with before I order it.

How about this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARC-AUDIO-XDI-805-5-CHANNEL-AMPLIFIER-/131376760890?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e96aa483a

Or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ST-5X-ZAPCO-5-Channel-Class-A-B-Full-Range-Amplifier-ST5X-Amp-Authorized-Dealer-/191534638576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c985aa5f0

Or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INFINITY-KAPPA-FIVE-5-CHANNEL-AMP-1200W-AMPLIFIER-BIG-DISCOUNT-/141601998945?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f8230861

Or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Alpine-PDX-5M-Marine-Boat-5-Channel-Class-D-Amplifier-NO-BOX-/271813502042?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4958e45a


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Kinda boring update...

The sound deadener is taking a lot longer to dry than I originally anticipated. It was dry enough to put on a second coat and I really laid it on thick this time. I've got a feeling it's going to take up to 72 hours this time around. This is going to slow some of my progress for a couple of days for sure.










Second coat...



















Finishing up the corner braces.

While I was waiting for everything to dry I decided to make a circle jig for my router. Sure beats the hell out of spending $45 on one and it was pretty easy to do too.










marking the router position.




























Countersunk holes drilled to mount the router.










Marking off the radius' for the pivot holes. I went with 1/4" increments. Since you are dealing with diameter, everything is double the radius; so...I was able to make a jig that cuts in 1/2" increments. I believe this will be good enough for my purposes.










Pivot holes drilled. Also drilled the plunger hole for the router. Since I will be using a 1/4" bit at all times I made the hole a 1/2" to ensure adequate clearance. I didn't test it yet, but I will test before I make the cuts in the top of my box.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

I love home made tools and fixtures! Good job...


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Love everything so far. Yeah I made myself a circle maker once before, but it only lasted about 3 days. One buck of the tool snapped the shape instantly. MDF makes for a horrible tool material, I've learned.

As far as your amps you linked, you need to remember that you have dual 4 ohm subs, and two of them. Means you need to look for a sub amp (probably separate) that outputs strongly at 4 ohm, or 1 ohm. That immediately knocks out the XDi 805. Also, I think you'll want more power than that anyway. 

The PDX is nice but can be noisy, and is underpowered.

The Kappa is nice but can be noisy and is underpowered.

The Zapco is underpowered, and inefficient class A/B.

I stand by my original suggestions. If you need something at the lowest cost, the Pioneers will be amazing. But if you have a higher budget, going with Arc separates would be great.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Another cheap option that might be good, is the Planet Audio Big Bang series, which are said to be very similar if not exact to the Arc XDi amps. The ratings are way off reality but even if they are 1/2 what they are max-rated, you're still good to go.

Planet Audio BB1200.4 Big Bang 1200W Digital 4-Channel Class-D Amplifier
Planet Audio BB2500.1 Big Bang 2500W Monoblock Class-D Amplifier

The OCD (really just detail-oriented, not a bad thing) in you would probably appreciate a brand spanking new amp vs one with some scratches. Although if you can score Arc KS amps, you can refinish them very easily so that's an exception. I did that myself.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

> I love home made tools and fixtures! Good job...


Thank you for the complement. I think it will at least get me through this project. I can always get a better one down the road.



> The OCD (really just detail-oriented, not a bad thing) in you would probably appreciate a brand spanking new amp vs one with some scratches. Although if you can score Arc KS amps, you can refinish them very easily so that's an exception. I did that myself.


I appreciate you putting that so eloquently and I trust your expertise. Not only that; I do like the fact that if I go with the Pioneers I can save a bit of $$$. That is always a good thing. As of right now I think I will shoot for the 2 Pioneer's you've suggested:

*Pioneer GM D8604
Pioneer GM D8601*

I will probably order the mono-block first.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

the latest...



















The Acoust-X comes off really clean.










A whole bunch of painters tape.










Got the back and left side on.



















Screw job.










And my first real **** up on the box and in its overall design. I certainly should've known better. The 1" x 1" corner braces I made just weren't stout enough and this one split. I pumped it full of wood glue and I will go over it with some more of the acoustic paint before final assembly. You live, you learn.










And here it all is just waiting until tomorrow.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Here is the plan for the amp rack. It isn't 100% but this is what I'm going to shoot for.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Looks good!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Yep, looks excellent.

You my friend need an air-nailer. Unless forced to by a design that won't let me get in with one, I will forever forward use my air nailer to build, for many reasons. One, you don't split wood nearly as often. Two, the glue holds the part, not the screws (you probably already knew that, you have great woodworking skills from what I see.) Three, screws create a potential leak that must be resolved with sealant, whereas brads are pretty leak-free most of the time. Four, and this is the most important, router bits cut right through a brad like a hot knife through butter, so when doing roundovers, bevels, etc on your shapes, you actually get to do it. With a screw, you could lose a finger, or at least a very expensive bit. There is no good that comes from any of that. Five, less important but annoying, you have to fill in every darn screw hole and that usually takes several times with putty. 


My air nailing rig consists of a decent air compressor and tank from Home Depot, and a $34 brad nailer/stapler from Walmart. I oil it every time I use it, and it has lasted me through tons of builds, and it still works as good as the day I bought it. Point being the money I saved by buying brads and staples instead of drilling, countersinking, and screwing bits, as well as the screws themselves, has paid for itself 100x over. The time I save is HOURS per build I do. It might 10+ hours on a 50 hour deal. It was a game-changer for me. Very similar to the first time I used a router instead of a jig saw.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

fourthmeal said:


> Yep, looks excellent.
> 
> You my friend need an air-nailer. Unless forced to by a design that won't let me get in with one, I will forever forward use my air nailer to build, for many reasons. One, you don't split wood nearly as often. Two, the glue holds the part, not the screws (you probably already knew that, you have great woodworking skills from what I see.) Three, screws create a potential leak that must be resolved with sealant, whereas brads are pretty leak-free most of the time. Four, and this is the most important, router bits cut right through a brad like a hot knife through butter, so when doing roundovers, bevels, etc on your shapes, you actually get to do it. With a screw, you could lose a finger, or at least a very expensive bit. There is no good that comes from any of that. Five, less important but annoying, you have to fill in every darn screw hole and that usually takes several times with putty.
> 
> ...


agreed...brad nailer over screws...but CLAMPS over brads


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Noted. I certainly would've enjoyed the convenience as well as all of the other benefits that come from an air nailer as you've mentioned. I'm about 75% of the way through this box so my current method will need to suffice for the moment.

However, if you all have noticed I also did not screw directly into the corners and instead screwed into the corner braces. I did that for one specific purpose.

So that I could indeed use a router with a rounding bit on the corners and not have to worry about hitting a screw.

If I did not do this then my box would have a major design flaw. It would not sit flat into the wet trunk.

Next time I do this; I will get an air nailer. Thanks for the suggestions.

Also, I did use clamps initially to set the glue. I then went back in with screws afterward to ensure that everything was copacetic.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

TexasGator said:


> Also, I did use clamps initially to set the glue. I then went back in with screws afterward to ensure that everything was copacetic.


Once the glue dries..walk away and be done. Adding screws at this point is not going to do a thing. Thats why i use just clamps. It takes an extra day or two...but i am hardly ever in a hurry.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Noted. I realized I worded my last post incorrectly. I clamped first then screwed while the glue was still wet; just to clarify. So, in a sense the screws are "clamps"?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

MiniSQ is right. Screws just screw it up. lol. Glue and clamp force is where the magic happens. Brads are just a type of clamp force but clamps are better when it matters. 

I LOVE using the Gorilla Wood glue. That stuff is quick to set up (but not TOOO quick), and it is thin enough to really get in some tight places, and it is like concrete when dry, which is a few hours from start to finish.


You are doing really good, man, really good. Just keep the eye for detail going and I don't think anything will stop you.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Cool, cool, I really appreciate all of the input and I am learning a lot along the way. I'm going to pick up some of the Gorilla glue and rely on it instead of fasteners for structural needs on the amp rack build. Thanks!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> Cool, cool, I really appreciate all of the input and I am learning a lot along the way. I'm going to pick up some of the Gorilla glue and rely on it instead of fasteners for structural needs on the amp rack build. Thanks!


Also, there's Gorilla Glue and there's Gorilla WOOD Glue. Get the wood stuff. The regular one expands and can make a big mess.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Here's the latest...

About 80% done on the box. Finished all the soldering and shrink wrapping on all the wires. Took way longer than I expected.










3rd side on.










Building the step.










Had to file some off because of my shoddy workmanship. I blame it on the tools, ha ha.



















Got the step in.



















Here's a test fit. I gotta re-test once it is in the car. I will probably set them toward the back of the trunk so I can keep the subs and the amps concentrated in one area.



















Smoothing some of the seams after wood gluing it all.



















Had to grind down some of the screws because I didn't countersink them well enough.










With the brace in.

See ya next time.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

And here's a peak at most of the wiring, sorry for the messy photos lol.





































Peace!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Solid work, man!

I really like your wiring efforts. I know it takes forever, but you will smile and be proud pretty much anytime you look at it, show others, or ever have to remove it.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Dude I wish there was even a bigger **** eating grin than even the one that precedes this sentence. You don't even know how excited I am about this build and how far I've come and its all thanks to you Fourth and everyone in the DIYMobileAudio community. Can't wait to let yal know how it sounds!


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## plushterry (Jan 22, 2015)

looks good so far man. excellent work


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

This question may be ridiculous and is surely a noob question but...

How do I connect a wire to the terminals on these Dayton Shallow Mounts? The reason I'm asking is because I'm stumped. Do I just slip the wires in directly without adding terminals to the wires? Or is there a special terminal I need to solder onto the end of the wires to plug into the post terminals. What is the professional way of handling this?

Here's a pic of the Dayton subs terminals:










Oh man, may as well edit this further. I ordered the Pioneer 8601. It says it is 1 ohm stable. Should I wire the subs into 1 ohm in parallel to take advantage of 800 watts RMS. Or should I connect in series at 4 ohms and get 300 watts RMS? I can't get these DVC 4ohm subs down to 2ohms correct? I seriously think my 1st idea is the right idea but I'd appreciate some assurance.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Direct connection is all you need, just twist your speaker wire and place it right in the terminal.

You want to run the 1 ohm load, that's why I wanted you to get it. You'll have a lot more headroom that way. Those Pioneers handle low loads with ease.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Perfect!


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Progress is slow moving but I figured what the hell you guys usually like photos so here's some more. Pioneer Monoblock amp has been ordered. I'm hoping to be operational in a week's time but we'll see.










Showing off the metric ton of fill work. 










Brace in, but still need to add Acoust-X










I rounded the edges on the box first with the router and then went back into the corners with this file to allow the box to sit perfectly flat into the wet trunk.










Holes for the terminal posts even though I wish I'd have done those dead last because I ended up having to tape them off to prevent them from getting jacked up.



















Posts installed.










Final seal.










My new distro block.



















Circles cut and if you look close enough you can see the threaded wood inserts I put in. However, a word of advice. Always buy extra of the inserts. I ended up 3 short because I ended up snapping 3 of them. No biggie I got them out, it'll just take another trip to the hardware store.

See ya next time!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Based on how these sound, I may order a pair up for a truck build I have lined up in a few weeks. Either a stack of 4 sealed, or a pair ported. 

Definitely let me know your impression of these little guys, especially regarding their behavior at the limit.

Excited to see this turn out for you too!


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

I don't know how much help I will be, but I will answer any question you may have. After all you've answered all of mine.

I got the Mono amp in today so It'll be going in on Sunday. Expect an update w/ pics likely to follow on Monday.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

So, I kinda decided to tap the brakes a bit on my build. Primarily because I felt like if I'd have moved forward over the weekend with my plan of simply getting the low end operational it would've compromised my overall vision.

So, realizing that I have a whole other half of a system I need to build I decided to concentrate on building the amp rack before rushing into hooking things up and placing them where they ultimately would not fit in the grand scheme of things. So for now, the still crappy stock sound system will have to do.

Here is a pic with the subs in the car though. I've got carpet on the way and the top trim holes will be getting chamfered so it will hide my little boo-boo:










I do have a question however, I ordered 2 40amp fuses and 1 80amp fuse based on the fact that the 2 Pioneer amps have 40amp fuses built in. My thought was to run the 2x40amp fuses on the Scosche E2 distribution block where the 1/0 gauge turns into 4 gauge, and run the 80amp fuse just off the battery in the engine bay. Did I do the math right on that fuse set up? If not what does it need to be? And why(without having to explain too much)?

Thanks again, and I hope to have yal some more build pics really soon.


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## bonesmcgraw (Jan 7, 2013)

Everything's looking good so far.

My understanding of fuses and wiring is you are fusing to protect the wire not the amps. So typically 4ga ofc wire would have around a 150 amp fuse and a 1/0 ofc wire would have around a 300 amp fuse. With that being said I don't see a problem with running the fuses that you already have though as long as you don't add anything to that circuit.

Somebody please correct me if i'm wrong on this.


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## carlr (Feb 27, 2011)

That is correct, fusing is to protect the wiring in case of a short, not protecting the electronics. I'm following this chart which is produced by EMMA (European Mobile Media Association):









It is however ALWAYS allowed to step down to a smaller size fuse than the recommendation!


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

carlr said:


> That is correct, fusing is to protect the wiring in case of a short, not protecting the electronics. I'm following this chart which is produced by EMMA (European Mobile Media Association):
> 
> View attachment 61657
> 
> ...





bonesmcgraw said:


> Everything's looking good so far.
> 
> My understanding of fuses and wiring is you are fusing to protect the wire not the amps. So typically 4ga ofc wire would have around a 150 amp fuse and a 1/0 ofc wire would have around a 300 amp fuse. With that being said I don't see a problem with running the fuses that you already have though as long as you don't add anything to that circuit.
> 
> Somebody please correct me if i'm wrong on this.


You guys Rock! Thanks! I actually have a 150amp laying around as well so maybe I will run 150 off the battery and 2x80's in the distro block. It's good to know that going smaller is okay.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

That's about right. Plus remember, fuses don't blow at a specific amperage. They do it with a rising rate toward an amperage over time. Since audio is extremely dynamic (unless playing a test tone), these maximum amperage ratings are highly unlikely to be touched. Mostly we're just after protection against accidents like a short, say if a wire gets loose or an allen wrench lands on a power and ground at the same time (oh... that's fun.)

You're doing great, man. Way to restrain yourself! For just that reason, I have an "f-it" box with a simple sub and an amp, which I can throw in whenever I'm desperate for some bass in the middle of a build. It just sits in there (velcro on the bottom works) and connects while I'm in-progress if I just can't wait.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

fourthmeal said:


> You're doing great, man. Way to restrain yourself! For just that reason, I have an "f-it" box with a simple sub and an amp, which I can throw in whenever I'm desperate for some bass in the middle of a build. It just sits in there (velcro on the bottom works) and connects while I'm in-progress if I just can't wait.


That is a really good idea! Maybe down the road I will rig something up. This amp rack is kinda giving me fits. There is just not much space but I will make it work. Spent the last couple days just doing some confidence boosting on the router. Trying to get a few complex shapes down so I can make some of the footing for the rack. It's moving slowly, but it is moving.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> That is a really good idea! Maybe down the road I will rig something up. This amp rack is kinda giving me fits. There is just not much space but I will make it work. Spent the last couple days just doing some confidence boosting on the router. Trying to get a few complex shapes down so I can make some of the footing for the rack. It's moving slowly, but it is moving.


Exactly, on the space. You remember when I was first discussing with you, how you'll want to find small amps because the room is tight. The Pioneers are a good fit for that much space though, I think.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

fourthmeal said:


> Exactly, on the space. You remember when I was first discussing with you, how you'll want to find small amps because the room is tight. The Pioneers are a good fit for that much space though, I think.


Oh yeah, the Pioneer 8601 is great! It has a very small footprint. My problem is the same problem it has been all along...total lack of height. But Imma make it work though.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Got a question, I think I did it right but I just want to make sure. This is how I wired the Daytons to get down to the 1ohm load:










Here is a link to the subs to make sure that everything is copacetic:

Dayton Audio LS10-44 10" Low Profile Subwoofer Dual 4 Ohm

Is this correct?

Also, I added 24oz. of cheap "Hobby Lobby" polyfill. It is not a full 2 lbs. but it is still taking up a **** ton of space in this box. Basically it was 2 giant 1ft. x 3ft. cylindrical bags of this stuff. I tucked it as far away from the subs terminals and magnets as possible but like I said it is a bunch and I'm worried about it migrating back toward the sub magnets/terminals. Should I be worried? Is this the way it is supposed to be? Should I take some out?

Again, any help is greatly appreciated.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

I'd still appreciate some help on my questions above but I figured I'd share with you all the latest. It was a rough day. Had a trim bit break and my router broke. Luckily I had the receipt and Home Depot let me trade it out, man what a relief. So here's some progress:

top trim piece for the rack...



















A little thirst quencher, Founder's All Day IPA:










So here is the beauty I traded the ****ty broken Ryobi out for. I love it!!!! Love, love, love it so far. It is day and night from that POS Ryobi. It has an led that shines on the work piece and is adjustable to the millimeter. I couldn't be happier with it.










Here is the shelf where the amps will sit as well as mynew Pioneer 8601...




























Here is how the shelf is supported.



















And finally the holes cut out of the top trim:










See yal next time


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Here's a couple more:

Chamfered edges on the sub cutouts(sorry about the crappy pic)...










And, the supports glued to the amp shelf...


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Yep, that way you've got it drawn out there is one possible way to wire to parallel, but what I do is simply wire to each sub to one coil, and then from that coil just stay + for + and - for -, with small wires. And then do that for each sub, and finally at the amp I combine them. That way there's less resistance. But if you ran just one sub terminal, it works the same by soldering two wires to each terminal end, and then out to the subs. 6 = 1/2 dozen, either way.

Polyfil usually stays in place, so I think you're safe. And yes, it is mostly air so it takes an amazing amount of space when air is allowed in, like in a package.



TexasGator said:


> Got a question, I think I did it right but I just want to make sure. This is how I wired the Daytons to get down to the 1ohm load:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

So life kinda happens so I really haven't been able to work a whole lot on this project, however I did get a solid day in today and I am now fully operational!!!! 

I'd like to share with you all some more of my progress even though I still have a long ways to go. Mainly there is just small nit-picky stuff to be done with the low end of this build. So, here's some pics:

laminating the amp trim piece.










Here's a preview, the amp will not remain there:










Fuse block mounted and out of view, but still serviceably which is exactly how I wanted it.










Same with the ground, it is directly opposite of the fuse block.



















Carpeted. Unfortunately the match isn't 100%. I may try to pull out some of the color with a vinegar solution.










The painted box and amp rack is a temporary solution. I'm going to get some black vinyl to cover the top of the sub box and the amp shelf.










Here's a good reason why I'm obviously not finished. Look at the termination of that 1/0 ground wire. It looks like garbage so I will probably order some 1/0 to 4 gauge adapter terminals. Also, that power wire is going bye-bye. It will be swapped with orange Techflex wrapped wire just like the rest of the build.










The RCA's on the other side:










Here's how it sits now until I can get some more time to polish some of the details and some more money to order the other amp and start working on the mids and highs.










As for initial impressions...I had to turn the gain pretty much all the way down. Which I'm good with right now it just accents the stock sound but doesn't get loud which I'm okay with. Once I round out the rest of the system I'm sure these Dayton's are going to make the car sound even better. They do seem a little punchy right now to be completely honest but I'm not complaining one bit. This is obviously a huge improvement over OEM.

Thanks!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Everything looks good but I would say just run 4 gauge from your distribution fuse to your amps. The run is short, the efficiency is high on the amps (so, current draw on a 4 gauge isn't remotely an issue), and it will clean up the look and the safety will be where you want it (aka, safe with no bare wire to short out).

The peakiness of the subs is likely due to break-in, but also cabin gain has an effect. You'll probably need to pull out some of the 40-45hz frequency output with a simple EQ setting, once available.

Solid stuff so far man!


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Is there a way to adjust some of the frequency on the amp right now? I know I have a knob for it I just have no idea what I'm doing. Is this something I should do? Where should I set the frequency cut-off? Or...is this just personal preference?

I'm noticing that the bass gets really loud on hip hop songs which is pretty normal because they typically have lower bass notes. But if I go from that new Run the Jewels to something like the Shins I've got to constantly re-adjust the bass on the stock HU's EQ(which is terrible by the way) because the contrast is so immense. This may just be a fact of life and there probably isn't a whole lot I can do about it right now. I plan on installing the bass adjustment knob in the future and maybe that is part of the solution.

Also, I never realized how fatiguing those Polk co-axes are until I put those subs in. It seems like they run a high frequency and are kinda "chiming" sounding. I figure this is because of the lack of adequate mid-range to round it out.

I wish I knew what I was doing to optimize what I have until I get the rest of the speakers. Any good reading that could help me out on tuning this? Thanks!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Its a complex topic but the basics will be that you need a way to EQ somehow, eventually. First thing, though, mess with polarity (phase) to make sure you're not cancelling out your midbass from the front doors to the sub. Try it one way, note the sound, flip it and try it the other way while noting the sound difference. 

For crossover frequency, the sub amp should be happy around 100hz low pass. 





TexasGator said:


> Is there a way to adjust some of the frequency on the amp right now? I know I have a knob for it I just have no idea what I'm doing. Is this something I should do? Where should I set the frequency cut-off? Or...is this just personal preference?
> 
> I'm noticing that the bass gets really loud on hip hop songs which is pretty normal because they typically have lower bass notes. But if I go from that new Run the Jewels to something like the Shins I've got to constantly re-adjust the bass on the stock HU's EQ(which is terrible by the way) because the contrast is so immense. This may just be a fact of life and there probably isn't a whole lot I can do about it right now. I plan on installing the bass adjustment knob in the future and maybe that is part of the solution.
> 
> ...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Upon further review it looks like I had the amp set at 40hz. I set it at 80hz since technically this is where the front Polk DB's are supposed to fall off. It has already made the sound much more robust. Thanks for the input!


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

So I've got a question as usual...How do I hook up the 8604 to the crossovers/components?

Is it like this:










Also, do I need 2 RCA outputs off the H/U to make this work? Problem is I only have 2 pre/outs on the PAC unit and one is already being used by the sub. Is there a work around? Y-splitter maybe?

If none of the above, what is the proper way to hook up the RCA's to achieve my goals of powering a L/R component set w/ this amp, a pair of subs w/ the 8601 all via a PAC converter?

Thanks again!

Oh, p.s. ordered the amp today so should be on its way!


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Also, I need to create the lids for the amp rack and I think I can afford a chamfer space wise; however I really think a rabbet would be pushing it as there is very little space between the amps and the sub box. I'd like to try and do this like exhibit A below. Both the lids and the amp rack top will be covered in carpet so I will most likely need to compensate for that. But, do you all think I can make this work with a chamfer and not a rabbet?










Thanks again!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Chamfer can sink or pop up due to tiny miscalculations. Rabbet is superior IMO. But you can chamfer (bevel really) just a bit too, at the top side, so the carpet or vinyl has a bit more visual appeal. 


On your amp question, if you have only 2 RCA output, yes you can split but if the 4ch amp has an output or pass through, I'd use that.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Awesome build. Reminds me of my 05 Escape build. 

Re: your 4 channel amp. if you get the matching pioneer

Pioneer GM-D8604 4-Channel 600W GM Digital Series Car Amplifier

Youll see you have a 2 channel input option if you zoom in on the pictures. That would send the input to both channels with one rca run so no need to spit. Your diagram is great as is.

Only thing is I remember my escape deck has a built in treble boost. Are you considering a bit 10 or something like a lc7 to get a nice summed flat signal or are you getting that slick alpine?

Also, have you decided on components and tweeter locations?

Loving what you did so far and subbed


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

fourthmeal said:


> Chamfer can sink or pop up due to tiny miscalculations. Rabbet is superior IMO. But you can chamfer (bevel really) just a bit too, at the top side, so the carpet or vinyl has a bit more visual appeal.


Yup, glad I asked. I didn't think of that on the chamfer but you helped put it in perspective. I've got another idea that I'm going to sketch up later and run it by yal. Maybe I will snap a pic or 2 of how this piece of the build looks right now to explain it better.



tyroneshoes said:


> Awesome build. Reminds me of my 05 Escape build.
> 
> Re: your 4 channel amp. if you get the matching pioneer
> 
> ...


Thanks man! Do you have pics or a link to your '05? I'd love to look at it. I did already order the 8604, but I was not aware of the 2ch. switch so that is really great news!

I can't figure out if my OEM deck has a treble boost or a bass reduction? I think it's the latter. Either way it will be getting the boot eventually...one thing at a time.

As for component locations: I plan on putting the mids in the factory locations. I'm not 100% sure on the tweeters yet but I have some ideas that I'm going to work up and throw on here to see what everyone thinks before I make my final decision.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

A couple of the old truck in various stages




























Zapco/ESB comp set up front


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Oooh I spy expanded metal from Home Depot in that last shot. Got a love-hate-bleed relationship with that stuff for sure.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

tyroneshoes said:


> A couple of the old truck in various stages
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that a JL Stealth Box w/ a Morel Sub? That is awesome, but it looks pricey. I originally thought about doing the same with a sub in a custom fiberglass enclosure on the side like that. I liked it then and I especially like it now in your truck. Good job.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Yeah ultimo sc. When they first came out they were like 250 new from woofers ect. Then the price doubled for some reason. I preferred the audiomobile as a sub but the morel looked sweet with that grill in the stealthbox.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Man you guys and that Escape/Tribute trunk... Memories. I must have gone through 8-9 different iterations of a system in that trunk. There's a lot of space if you don't have the hybrid.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

So...here's my latest hair-brained scheme to make these lids work on this amp rack. Since the divider between the subs and the top of the amp rack is so thin, what if I added flush mounted cleats to the bottom of the amp rack top and added routed-out recesses in the bottom of the amp rack lids in order to secure them and allow them to lay flat as well, like this:










What do yal think? Is this the best solution as opposed to a rabbet? I've already ruled out a chamfer.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

All of these ideas work equally in the end. If you think one solution looks cooler or is more efficient for your time, go forward. There's no bad answer to this solution you've shown so far.

I think the rabbet would be my solution, just by how I've done things before. I like using contrasting colors when they are exposed for showing off moments, so rather than use a rabbet itself, I would typically glue/brad in a piece of wood under the main piece, and adorn one with one color of carpet, one with another (or vinyl), and that piece underneath is a little bit smaller so it holds the panel above it.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

fourthmeal said:


> All of these ideas work equally in the end. If you think one solution looks cooler or is more efficient for your time, go forward. There's no bad answer to this solution you've shown so far.
> 
> I think the rabbet would be my solution, just by how I've done things before. I like using contrasting colors when they are exposed for showing off moments, so rather than use a rabbet itself, I would typically glue/brad in a piece of wood under the main piece, and adorn one with one color of carpet, one with another (or vinyl), and that piece underneath is a little bit smaller so it holds the panel above it.


Right I love these ideas, especially using different materials for the lids. I was actually thinking of using a vee-groove bit to make the covers look just like the escape's dash. Except I can't find any raised dot vinyl to match the stock dash so I'd need to go a different route. Like this:










My hang up is how thin the piece between the sub box and the amp rack's top is. In hind-sight I wish I'd have made the subwoofer box just an inch shorter in overall width to accommodate but I'm too late in the game for that. I'm looking at aprox. a 1/2" in width on the rack's top and no more. I just don't know if that will hold a rabbet well. That is why I'm leaning toward the cleat method.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

So, onward and upward! The 8604 should be in early next week. I also ordered some vinyl for the lids. I'm not sure if the color is going to be right. However, the pattern is almost a spot on match to the Ford Escape dash.

I figure if the color isn't a very close match I will order some vinyl dye/paint from SEM and try to get it as close to the stock dash as possible.

I'm going to v-groove the top with 3 grooves on each lid so it replicates the OEM look of the dash.

This is what I ordered:










So, I haven't updated any pics recently, but once that new amp comes in I'm going to get back after completing the trunk. I will surely post some more pics of my progress then.

Next big purchase coming up is a high-quality component set. I'd like to stay in the $300 range. I'm certainly open to any suggestions if anyone would like to help me out.

The Pioneer 8604 will put out 300w RMS bridged at 4ohms.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Got some more stuff done while I'm waiting on the amp.

Rabbeted and glued cleats to the amp rack lid.










Here's a test fit, the amp lids will sit in flush once it is done.



















The lines on top are where I am adding the v-groove.










Here's a shot with the bottom of the lids rabbeted so that they sit flush now.










Painted the cleats.



















And here is the trim piece all covered up with the carpet.




























Test fitting the lids, they definitely need a trim now with the carpet on. These will be wrapped in the raised dot vinyl from the previous post as soon as it comes in and I can get the v-grooves routed.










And inside the truck.



















Also, I need to start looking at a component set. My budget is $300 if anyone has any suggestions.

Thanks!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Badass work man!

Hmm,... $300? Consider a set of MS62C if you can find them.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

fourthmeal said:


> Badass work man!
> 
> Hmm,... $300? Consider a set of MS62C if you can find them.


Thanks again! I found them for $205 on Ebay.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> Thanks again! I found them for $205 on Ebay.


Yeah they are the last of a special breed of speaker. For the money it should be hard to beat. I feel this mostly because of how much quality JBL packs into a given item for the dollar. However if you get to go with an active system in the future, there are some better options that can be had. A potential place to grow then.

The MS62C won't have outstanding bass output (but neither will the door of the Escape), so cross them around 90hz or so and work from there. But the midrange and top end, assuming you put the tweeters in a good spot and attenuate them properly, should make you happy. Sometimes you just have to try a few different brands or setups (before cutting holes) and see what you like.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Awesome, so the JBL's are solid. Any other characteristics that put these over the top?

Does anyone have an opinion on the DLS MB6.2? Beyma SCK65? Or the CDT CL-61?

I can get any of these for a similar price range to the JBL MS62C's.

Thanks for your input.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Good lay-out skills with your dimensions on the wood! Killer...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

hot9dog said:


> Good lay-out skills with your dimensions on the wood! Killer...


Thank you.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Between those brands, I'd stay with the JBL. But you may want to peruse the classifieds for something better that's used. Most people on here take pretty good care of their equipment. 

I scored Audio Development drivers for a great price, and they are some of the best mid woofers I've heard in a while at any price.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

There's these...

Stage4 Ts-132PRS set BNIB lowest ever!!!! - Car Audio Classifieds


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

If you wanted a 5 1/4 it would be a good choice (but the Audio Development 5 1/4's I have might be better), but ideally you'll want either a 5x7/6x8 or a 6.5". A 5 1/4" would be a step-down in size. Not ideal.

If you want a straight bolt-in affair (minus the tweeter hole to cut), and must use a component set instead of making your own active set, the Image Dynamics XS-57 setup, which runs about $300 OBO, and are really nice, simple units. They are a little "dark" in sound, a little laid back, but I really enjoy them without fatigue issues. They would also be superior in an active setup, ditching the somewhat low-grade crossover for a processor instead.

Woofers etc. also has a set of Diamond 6x8's which should be nice. 


Or go with 6.5" components and build your own door baffles.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Amp came in so here's the latest...

Here is the amp shelf wrapped in black vinyl. The photos aren't as flattering but I did the best I could 



















And with the grommets in...



















Here's where I mounted up some wire stays on the bottom side of the amp shelf.










Here it is inside the car with the wires ran, photos came out really dark.



















Both amps in and bolted down, only the sub amp is hooked up for now.










All back together, now it is on to the front stage(mids and highs)! Yay!!!!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Love it, really solid work.

It would be fun to work side by side with you man, you really have an eye for the details.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

I appreciate it man, I feel like you've been my wingman through this whole project and I am very grateful for it and that means a lot coming from you.

I'm trying to be very detail oriented and it is proving time consuming, however, I'm okay with it. I for sure wish I had a little better technique on wrapping things.  Not my forte, most of it'll be covered eventually w/ trim pieces anyway.

I also got rained on pretty bad this afternoon and kinda rushed it; didn't get to button up the wiring quite like I wanted so this is probably going to need another re-work too. But...that's okay. I'm having fun. 

Going to be a little while before I can order components though. Probably a couple of weeks.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

very slick and thank you for lining up those woofers/cutouts. My only previous critique

are the daytons going yet?


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

tyroneshoes said:


> very slick and thank you for lining up those woofers/cutouts. My only previous critique


Yeah, I haven't bolted in the box yet. It's heavy so it doesn't move a whole lot but when it does it will throw the cutouts off a little bit. When I finally get them secured for good the cutouts will lineup perfectly and the woofers, cutouts and amps will all line up perfectly as well.



tyroneshoes said:


> are the daytons going yet?


Yeah buddy, goin' strong. I'm pretty impressed to get that much out of a shallow mount. They started off kinda punchy but I realized I had the frequency a little low on my amp plus they probably needed some breaking in. Now that they are broken in I'm really lovin' them. I wish I was more experienced on describing color and sound but I'm just not. All in all though I'm super impressed, really loving them and can't wait to round out the rest of the setup.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Managed to get a set of MS62C's for $220 shipped, but the catch is they are coming from across the pond and aren't expected to get here until the 3rd week in June 

Oh well, at least I got a good set at a good price.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Yeah you did!

A pair of JBL 6x8 coaxials should do the rear if you even want to touch them. I like the Power set I have in my rear doors in my Flex.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

fourthmeal said:


> Yeah you did!
> 
> A pair of JBL 6x8 coaxials should do the rear if you even want to touch them. I like the Power set I have in my rear doors in my Flex.


Maybe down the road, I actually already moved the Polk DB co-axe's to the rear doors ahead of time(about a week ago); replaced the fronts with the aweful stockers. I'm going to stick with those for the time being since there are other areas I'd like to spend the money i.e. sound deadening.

Thanks for the input though; can't wait to get that JBL set.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

OMG!!! This is amazing. I got a shout out in diymobileaudio.com's first ever newsletter!!!

Here is the screen grab and the link:










First Newsletter, Mimicking Factory Panel Texture, And A 1990 Nissan 300ZX Build - May 2015

I hope this isn't some weird algorithm that is just showing me things that only I'd be interested in ha ha(if so then I will be a little embarrassed).

Huge thanks to everyone in the DIY community. I really appreciate all the love.   

P.S. Fourth I think they used your trunk pic.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

lol yup, that's mine.




TexasGator said:


> OMG!!! This is amazing. I got a shout out in diymobileaudio.com's first ever newsletter!!!
> 
> Here is the screen grab and the link:
> 
> ...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

My 135degree bit came in from China for the v-grooves so I got back after wrapping up what's left of the trunk.

First I made front and back trim pieces to mount and hide the wiring for the crossovers and the terminal blocks.










Forgot to snap a pic of the rear piece but I made one for the rear as well. The bit I got from China was of course not the best quality but it served its purpose. I had to get crafty because the shank on the 135degree v-groove bit was too small in diameter; hence the blue tape.










So I started out stopping short of the edge on the amp rack lids, because I'm dumb and didn't compensate for the fact that that bit would only terminate round instead of square how I really needed it to match the OEM Escape dash. So here's the first attemp.










Ultimately decided to route them edge to edge. Mainly because I'm lazy. However, I may redo them down the road.










One wrapped, one to go. The dots match the OEM dash, but the color is off so they will be getting sprayed with SEM vinyl paint at some point.



















My less than par vinyl skills, ha ha. You can see the texture in this pic.










The second one was easier to wrap than the first, got my training wheels off. Here they are in the amp rack cover.










And in the whip. The right one looks a little off because I took the sub floor bracing out. It sits in there just perfectly.










Components should be in in a couple of weeks. In the mean time I will be buttoning up the rest of the rear.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

very nice


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

tyroneshoes said:


> very nice


Thank you, thank you. 

Can someone give me wattage advice on the ms62c's? I've got 300 available for the set and I've heard they are power hungry through my research. Obviously 300 will **** 'em...so, is 80RMS enough or should I be trying to hit 100 watts? Or more? Anyone have any input on this?

Also, I'm going to throw up some tweeter location designs here in the coming days. I'd really appreciate any input on this as well once they go up.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Don't worry about that. It just like horsepower on tap. More is better, just keep your foot out of it when it isn't appropriate. Besides, power is dynamic, and logarithmic to SPL. You have nothing to worry about with "too much power". If you hear distortion, turn it down. That's your only worry.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

just dont use a great deal of bass boost and cut instead of boost freqs when tuning and power wont be a major issue. It will have more benefits than negs but do make sure the tweeters are on the highest level of attenuation.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

fourthmeal said:


> Don't worry about that. It just like horsepower on tap. More is better, just keep your foot out of it when it isn't appropriate. Besides, power is dynamic, and logarithmic to SPL. You have nothing to worry about with "too much power". If you hear distortion, turn it down. That's your only worry.


Got it, thanks!



tyroneshoes said:


> just dont use a great deal of bass boost and cut instead of boost freqs when tuning and power wont be a major issue. It will have more benefits than negs but do make sure the tweeters are on the highest level of attenuation.


You mention attenuation? So since the JBL's have 0db, -3db and -6db settings on the crossover for the tweeters, then the highest level of attenuation would be 0db right? Or...is it the other way around? Thanks for the input.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Okay, I mocked these up really quickly so sorry if the tweeter looks like a mid and they are kinda jacked up but hopefully everyone can get the gist. I'd like help in deciding how to mount the tweeters.

Please enlarge the pics so you can get a good idea of what I'm asking about. Here are the options I've come up with:

Option 1

On-axis pods fiberglassed directly into the A-pillars, color matched and blended to factory look...










Option 2

On or Off axis(depending on space constraints) mounted tweeters behind the A-pillars. Hole cut out for sound to pass through. Whole A-pillar covered in matching headliner material or speaker cloth. Tweeters are completely hidden from view. Incognito. May need to enlarge this image to see the fine detail...










Option 3

Dash pods. Tweeters affixed to photographers swivel for on the fly adjustments to fire on-axis. Dash pods shaped to curve into back of dash. Will be wrapped and color matched to factory spec and materials. These would not touch the A-pillars at all and would sit on top of the dash. They's only need to be as tall and as wide as the tweeter(maybe a little more). It's kinda hard to judge by the crappy Photoshop job but use your imagination...










*Pros and Cons*

Option 1

Pros: On-Axis, semi-factory look
Cons: Intermediate difficulty, Have to wrap or paint A-pillar

Option 2

Pros: factory look, Hidden, theft deterrent, freak people out because they don't know where the sound is coming from, Easy level of dificulty
Cons: May have to mount off-axis, have to wrap whole A-Pillar

Option 3

Pros: semi-factory look, adjustable, f'in sweet lookin'
Cons: possible vision obstruction(minor), might have to permanently modify dash, hard dificulty


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Acoustically, you might have an advantage putting the tweeters in the sail panel and not the A-pillar.

But otherwise, I'd go with an A-pillar setup with the tweeters aimed for the dome light or thereabouts, give or take.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

fourthmeal said:


> Acoustically, you might have an advantage putting the tweeters in the sail panel and not the A-pillar.
> 
> But otherwise, I'd go with an A-pillar setup with the tweeters aimed for the dome light or thereabouts, give or take.


Right, in pretty much all of them I should be able to aim them. I think it's more of a style choice now? As in which one looks the coolest? Sail panels are out of the question. The drivers side mirror control hogs most of the sail panel on the drivers side. I'd need to relocate it to make it work.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Okay, so I've been told these work best slightly off axis. Is this what you mean by trying to aim them at the dome light?

I originally liked the dash mounted pods but I'm leaning away from this now. I think it'd look cool but would be a lot of work...so it's either setup 1 or 2 with whatever modifications are necessary to make these sound great. I will probably try some things out with dub sided tape first and foremost.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> Okay, so I've been told these work best slightly off axis. Is this what you mean by trying to aim them at the dome light?
> 
> I originally liked the dash mounted pods but I'm leaning away from this now. I think it'd look cool but would be a lot of work...so it's either setup 1 or 2 with whatever modifications are necessary to make these sound great. I will probably try some things out with dub sided tape first and foremost.


Right, the idea is to not beam them right at you, but you also don't want to put your speakers in a position where they have a reflection off the windshield if you can help it. That's why the sail panel has an advantage in this. The A-pillar can work but it isn't as ideal. That said, both will still sound good. Edit: I am now remembering my 08 Tribute, and yes it has that mirror control in the sail panel spot. That's why I installed them in the doors, in the end. It was a compromise position. That position also worked out very well, especially with the tweeters I chose.

And yes, try with tape and towels, and experiment.


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## ZombieHunter85 (Oct 30, 2012)

TG your progress is amazing! From start to finish you did one hell of an install man.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

ZombieHunter85 said:


> TG your progress is amazing! From start to finish you did one hell of an install man.


Thank you, Thank you!


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

So I was jonesin' to do some work and I probably broke some cardinal rule of car audio but I went ahead and built the baffles for the mids without physically possessing them.

I did however follow the manual to the milimeter and measured the clearance on the back of the door card. But, you know how these things go I coulda jacked 'em up anyway, but that's alright because I like playing with my router.

I was going to order HDPE but I had so much MDF left over I figured I'd just save some $.

So here is what I threw together. It's not much progress but it's something:

That outline in the middle is the stock speakers










The last hole cutter I made wasn't accurate enough for these so what the hell I just made another










And here they are. Recessed areas for the stock mount screws, chamfered edge and waterproofed with Minwax wood hardener


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I suggest -6 on the passive and Id probably cross fire them off axis option 1 as far away from you as possible with typical flushmounts but Id try placing in a few locations with double side tape first or maybe theyll fit in these 

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-mounts/lpg-wedge-mount-hinged/


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

tyroneshoes said:


> I suggest -6 on the passive and Id probably cross fire them off axis option 1 as far away from you as possible with typical flushmounts but Id try placing in a few locations with double side tape first or maybe theyll fit in these
> 
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-mounts/lpg-wedge-mount-hinged/


Cool, I will start there and bump it up if need be.

MS62C's came in today, so I will be getting back after it really soon.

I did have a bit of a scare today and I have no idea why this happened? I turned my car off to go into work today at about 7:45am. I came out at about 12:45pm to grab some lunch and the car wouldn't start.

So I waited until 5 or so when I got off and got a jump except that we couldn't get the battery to charge. Key would turn all the way in the ignition but no sound. Lights, brights, dome lights, windows and radio would all work.

I drive a 5-speed so we ended up pop starting it so we in-turn bypassed the starter. Drove it straight to Advanced right after. I told the guy I was worried to turn the car off because I thought it wouldn't crank back up; either way I turned her off and we proceeded to check the battery, alternator and starter. Guy prints a report and says they all checked out fine.

So...I know this is a car audio forum but what do you think could've caused this? There are 2 LED's on the fuse block that are always on no matter what. Could 2 LED's drain my battery that much over such a short amount of time? I park my car overnight and she cranks? The only other thing is I had my iPod charger plugged in but it wasn't plugged to my iPod. Could that have done it if nothing was drawing current on the other end? I checked my amps. The remote is working fine. They remain off whenever the car is off. Now...the only other thing I can think of is that I have the Scosche Terminals, the ones that are kinda oval shaped and the positive side has the volt meter. Is it possible that when we were jumping the car there was no current passing through the terminals? We had them metal to metal and even when the guy at the auto-shop tested the battery he clipped on in exactly the same way?

Man I hope that was an anomaly. Plan on posting this elsewhere too to see if I can get some help. Thanks guys...stay tuned. I will be updating component set installation in the coming days.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I'm not sure what caused your issue but I can tell you that my Tribute had battery problems here and there, and in one instance a low battery voltage caused a processor (Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.2) to freak out, and destroy my sub with a thump from hell. 

In another instance, I had my inertia switch (fuel cutoff) trip on me, I presume when the kickpanel it is behind got tapped. 




TexasGator said:


> Cool, I will start there and bump it up if need be.
> 
> MS62C's came in today, so I will be getting back after it really soon.
> 
> ...


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

fourthmeal said:


> I'm not sure what caused your issue but I can tell you that my Tribute had battery problems here and there, and in one instance a low battery voltage caused a processor (Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.2) to freak out, and destroy my sub with a thump from hell.
> 
> In another instance, I had my inertia switch (fuel cutoff) trip on me, I presume when the kickpanel it is behind got tapped.


Dam, that really sucks; sorry to hear that.

It ended up being the starter. My driveway is on a decline so I tried to pop start it by rolling out to no avail and ended up having to park half way down the street. After work I came out with a hammer and had my buddy try and crank it while I hit it with a hammer and sure enough she fired right up. So, having suspected it was the starter I had already bought one so we proceeded to replace it. Almost $200 later she cranks up like new.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

TexasGator said:


> Dam, that really sucks; sorry to hear that.
> 
> It ended up being the starter. My driveway is on a decline so I tried to pop start it by rolling out to no avail and ended up having to park half way down the street. After work I came out with a hammer and had my buddy try and crank it while I hit it with a hammer and sure enough she fired right up. So, having suspected it was the starter I had already bought one so we proceeded to replace it. Almost $200 later she cranks up like new.


Sweet!

Ford starters usually last a while, but I guess this one gave the ghost early.

I know the alternator is suspect to fail due to water intrusion on that platform, so watch for that.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

fourthmeal said:


> Sweet!
> 
> Ford starters usually last a while, but I guess this one gave the ghost early.
> 
> I know the alternator is suspect to fail due to water intrusion on that platform, so watch for that.


Yeah I've heard of that too, however someone on another forum said that the 2011 was prone to starter problems.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

So, consider this the conclusion of stage 1 of my car audio build. I will be taking a breather from car audio or any vehicle mods for a while. So, here is the rest of stage 1.

Drilling the holes with threaded inserts to mount up the woofers.



















Went ahead and PlastiDipped them on top of the Minwax Wood Hardener.










The stocker, say buh-bye.



















Look at that measly magnet.










Here's the new home for the JBL MS62C's.










On to the dreaded Molex.



















Wires all bundled up nicely ready to make their final journey.










I was able to run the wires through the outside of the harness, which was great because it saved me from having to drill it out.










Gone fishin'.










Throught the bottom of the rubber door boot...










And into the door.










The tweeters were easy for now. I will make A-pillar pods down the road. For now they are stuck to the dash with double sided tape until I find the location that suits them best.



















Here's one of the beauties getting a test fit in the door baffles.










Rings mounted to the door with wires ran and ready to be plugged in.










We have liftoff...










Woofers installed.



















Here's a pic of the woofer and tweeter together, installed.










And...duh duh da duhn. Ta da! All installed  Phew.










The future...

Stage 2

A-pillar tweeter pods
Sound deadening doors and trunk
JBL MS-8

Stage 3
Sound deaden cabin, roof and hood liner
Double Din Head Unit w/ gps(not sure which one? But, I will cross that bridge when it gets here.)

See yal in a little while!!! Thank you all so very much for all the help along the way. I love the sound of the JBL's! Tyroneshoes was right I had to set them at -6db they were just too bright on -3db. I'm going to keep tuning. Also, I will keep messing with those tweeters to figure out how to install them permanently.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

All of it looks great so far, good pause point I think. 

How does the MS62 set sound to you? Clear and accurate? How's the midbass to you?


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

fourthmeal said:


> All of it looks great so far, good pause point I think.
> 
> How does the MS62 set sound to you? Clear and accurate? How's the midbass to you?


The difference is immense however, I don't think I have them tuned properly. 

My initial thought on the midbass is that they are a bit lacking but my doors aren't sealed or deadened but actually it probably has to do with the fact that I'm not noticing it for one reason or another. Maybe because the tweeters are still too loud? I don't think it's the subs, I will get to that in a minute. Also, it could be that I have immature/rookie ears and I just can't tell.

Again, this set is very, very clear and clean sounding. I really love the way they sound, but something is just a bit off.

Okay, so I will do my best to describe what is happening and hopefully I can fine tune these into shape with what I have.

The subs have pretty much faded away. They almost sound *gone* even though before they were really loud almost uncomfortably. They don't exactly "blend" they just kinda dissapear(I can still hear/feel it; just barely). Gain is set at probably 1/8th of full.

Mind you I did not alter the gain on the sub channel at all. It has been set at that level since I installed them.

The tweeters still sound a bit bright even with the -6db attenuation. However, this could have to do with positioning as well. Any ideas on how to knock them down a bit more? It's almost as if there were a -9db attenuation they'd be spot on. Also, the gain on the 8604 that is powering the MS62C's is currently set as low as it can possibly go. I can't get my HU past maybe 8 bars out of say 25 without it getting really ****in' loud, ha ha!

Again, I love the way they sound I'm just having trouble with working them into a system if that makes sense?

Every setting on the HU is currently set to flat as of now(balance, fade, bass, treble).

Any ideas how to get me on track?

Thanks. 

Edit: I need to add to this as well. Texas heat is killing my sound. This may sound kinda crazy but the difference between listening to the vehicle tonight as opposed to earlier today is tremendous. Could the heat really be effecting all these electrical components to an extent it is hurting the way they sound? Don't get me wrong if I had to grade this system I'd certainly say that it is above satisfactory but I'd also throw in a side note that says "needs improvement, see teacher after class."


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

First is lower the treble on the deck.

use a phone rta to find out the peaks and then start doing some serious cuts. Usually 4kish area needs to be cut. Lowering the tweet outputs is a tuning thing and you have the resources.

Wait, do you have a headunit or dsp? I scrolled but missed it.

You can make an lpad if youre keeping it passive 

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-Lpad.htm

if theyre bi-amped, you can use harrison fmods attenuators.

Or ill sell you a bnib mini dsp for cheap

PS never mind, I see the ms8 or new deck is in your future. That will help tremendously. So feel free to adjust your sub gain accordingly (as long as its not clipping)


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

tyroneshoes said:


> use a phone rta to find out the peaks and then start doing some serious cuts. Usually 4kish area needs to be cut. Lowering the tweet outputs is a tuning thing and you have the resources.
> 
> Wait, do you have a headunit or dsp? I scrolled but missed it.


Well...that is also part of the problem ha ha. I have neither.

Everything is sounding better and better with more play time, but something is still slightly off.

The bass still feels a little punchy and the tweeters seem to be softening out a bit. Also, I think I just needed to wake up this morning because they were pretty bright when I got in the car this morning to run an errand. But once I got back in the car they sounded less harsh. Dam physiology.

Also, I've got the components running off of the 4 channel amp, bridged. The way I understand it the frequencies need to be set at the same level because they are powering left and right not tweets and mids if that makes sense?

So...how would I lower or raise the frequency on the tweeters if channel A is powering Left and channel B is powering right. Not Channel A powering tweeters and Channel B powering mids.

IDK, is there a way to make the latter happen, ha ha I'm still a little wet behind the ears with this stuff and I'm not sure that is the answer even if it is possible.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Well, the dsp would help the most.

but temporarily, you can make a lpad using my diagram link and some cheap resistors. This would be in place after the tweet outputs on the passive for additional attenuation. 

Im assuming you cant bi-amp these passives?


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

tyroneshoes said:


> Well, the dsp would help the most.
> 
> but temporarily, you can make a lpad using my diagram link and some cheap resistors. This would be in place after the tweet outputs on the passive for additional attenuation.
> 
> Im assuming you cant bi-amp these passives?


I don't know man I can look into it. Actually I think I found my problem and I once again feel like a dumb ass ha ha.

Come to find out I had my iPod EQ set to the hip hop setting and it was causing the system to behave poorly. Now I've got it set at flat and so far I'm really diggin' everything I've been listening too!

Thanks for all of the help.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Yeah have everything in the signal stream set to "flat" before doing any critical listening, that's a lesson learned the hard way myself.

But also, experiment with phase. Any time you add speakers (like add the components when you had the sub going) and you LOSE something, you may have a phase problem. I always start with sub phase (just swap polarity), and take notes as you make changes. Do it A-B-A style, like an eye doctor does. Play music you know very well. Listen to the same music on a high quality set of headphones first (and if you don't own any, GET some), and then listen to your system. This should help "qualify" your ears to what you are expecting to hear.

Remember, don't go more than an hour at a time tuning, because your ears will fatigue. Just take little bits at a time, and it will all come together. Take NOTES though, it helps. A Lot. Especially when you have a processor.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

It's nice to know I have a microcosmic world in my trunk...










Thanks to StüvenCarhifi - Multimedia & Navigation - Hamburg - GM-D8604 for the pic.

It's like a little city. Thanks for all the equipment advice. I'm very happy with the results in-case I hadn't expressed it earlier.

Everything is sounding really well right now and I think I found my tweeter config. Straight across...wamp, wamp wa waaaaaahhh. All the double sided tape and repositioning ha ha and they sound best pointed across from each other.

Maybe boring but I think these tweeters sound the best positioned like this.

So...without spending any money on equipment(for now) I think I will be getting to the A-pillars build sooner than later. See yal soon with more updates.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm gearing up for stage 2. This time we're goin' active. Going to attempt it anyway. Here's the preliminary plan.

So I kind of forced my own hand on this one. The spiders broke on the JBL mids and a windshield repair guy slammed one of my tweeters in the door(my fault because I had them just taped to the dash and they had to move them to replace my windshield). 

I went ahead and bought an Image Dynamics component set. However, when I installed them the tweeters are super loud, not harsh or anything just straight up loud. They drown everything else out(even with a -6db crossover attenuation). I thought about possibly adding L-pads to them to attenuate them further but decided to try my hand at an active setup instead. I may have goofed by buying these but oh well I'm going to run with it.

1.) Replace broken JBL MS62C's with Image Dynamics IDQ-CS's (Done)
2.) Add a 3-way electronic crossover before the amps
3.) Secure subwoofer box to trunk floor much better
4.) Re-do the amp lids to better match the dash
5.) Fabricate tweeter pods with some sort of swivel system for the dash.
6.) Sound deaden doors and trunk
7.) Add a mini-dsp to the mix

Here's the first pic of the resurgence (getting the crossover rca's ready). I will document my forward progress here. I look forward to hearing from you all once again and as always I appreciate the input.


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## Porgy (Jun 8, 2011)

Question: since your last update what do you think about those subs now?


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Porgy said:


> Question: since your last update what do you think about those subs now?


I like them a lot. They are still a little punchy but they get pretty low. I've got them in a sealed enclosure though so it may have something to do with that. I also am kind of a novice when it comes to getting the most out of them as well.

They serve 3 purposes for me really. 1.) They are cheap 2.) they are shallow mount which was important to me because of space limitations and the desire for a stealthy install 3.) They offer good, solid bass.

Overall I'm really happy they haven't lost a step, they sound good and the carbon fiber cone looks bad ass.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

So, here's an update on phase 2. This may be slow going because I'm in grad school and planning a wedding however, I will update whenever I can.

I've always wanted to do dash pods for the tweeters and I think I have a good solid plan. My parameters are to have something that A.) looks good and matches the Ford factory aesthetic B.) Make them easy to reposition or aim C.) Hopefully sound good.

The original plan was to use a pool jet eyelet to allow the tweeter free movement on a ball joint however, the pool eyelets I ordered proved to be too small. I looked around and they don't make ones any bigger to fit my tweeters. They were cheap and seamed like a good idea however that plan has been nixed. It's all good though because they are still getting worked into the dash pods anyway (see below).

So the new plan is to use a camera ball joint bracket mount instead to allow the tweeters to be aimed wherever I want them whenever I want to change them.










Here is a pic of the plain old ring for the pool eyelet. I used Bondo spot putty to fill in some of the ridges on these to mimic the dash knobs on the Escape.



















I marked them so I know where to fill the valleys on the pool rings:










Then taped them off to prevent any mistakes:










Used sand paper and acetone to help adhesion of the Bondo:










Started filling:



















Here they are with a few of the ridges filled:



















It will make a lot more sense once they are painted black to match the dash and in place on the pods I hope.

In the mean time I started making the pods out of half inch MDF. The plan is to laminate them and mount the tweeters and ball joints in them. Also, I plan to match them as best I can to the factory dash in the Escape. Here is that process.























































This may help explain this a little better. This is essentially what I am going for:



















I will add to this as I progress. Thanks and have a good evening.


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

I finished up the tweeter rings.

I skimmed and sanded one last time:










Then on went the primer:










I used SEM trim black to paint them. I've used it before and it is superior paint and matches my factory dash.










Here they are being painted:










I wanted to make sure that they had a nice polish to them so I wet sanded afeter painting them:










Used some rubbing compound:










And kaplow, all done and they are a complimentary match to all of the dials on the center of my dash:



















They aren't flush mounted in this pic but this is kind of what I'm going for:


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## TexasGator (Mar 3, 2015)

Here's some progress on the actual pods.

The camera ball joints are going to be mounted into a cavity in the middle of the pods so I went ahead and routed that cavity out of several of the pieces of MDF.

Here you can kind of see how the ball joints will be placed:










Same here but they will be going side to side instead of and down like in the pic:










I laminated the 2 taller pieces. I had to make 2 pieces taller than the rest and they will get a chamfer because there is a "V" groove in the dash that I need to account for:



















Picture of the pocket:










Here I am starting on the chamfer:










They'll all stack together like this:










More clamping and laminating:










Then putting icing on the cake:










See ya in a bit.


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## steelwindmachine (May 15, 2017)

Any updates?


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