# Anyone that owns Hertz Mille?



## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

I just purchased my set and I'm getting everything installed next week. My question is....the MLK 165's list 150 RMS and 300 Peak. But people say give them more power (closer to the 300 watt range). Have any of you had first hand experience with these components, and if so....what kind of power are you using to drive them? (And active or passive) 


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## Tiago729 (May 24, 2015)

The mids are 125 RMS, the tweeters are 25 RMS. In my opinion 150 RMS would be perfect for the mid. As long as you cross them at 80Hz the JL HD that you have would be plenty. If you cross them any lower you will definitely need more power, but again in my opinion, that's what subs are for. My installer once crossed them at 45 Hz, believe me they can take it but they will not sound as good as they should. They're much more articulated if you cross them at the right frequency. And active please. For the money you will spend on those crossovers, you can literally pick up a DSP here in the forum. Passively crossing those speakers would be a sin.


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## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

I have their ml1600.2 and ml280 in my daily driver with passive x overs running off of two channels from a Phoenix gold elite.4 which is rated at 125x4 rms if I recall.... Birth sheet states just 200-205w x 4 rms. zero issues with taking the power... My ears give out way before the speakers make any bad noises. I unfortunantly do not know what the cover point is, I assume 100 HZ or so.... A local shop owed me some stuff and they installed alpines imprint, I do not have a way to adjust the crossover 

Prior to this I bridged a adcom gfa-5475 so these were getting 300 ish watts..... I was able to use my deck as the crossover and preferred 63hz, they sounded awesome playing that low and again my ears gave out before the speakers did.... Unfortunantly my old amp died on my thus I went with the elite


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

on music, any speaker can handle much more than its stated RMS power handling rating as long as its an unclipped signal.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I had the ML1600s and had no issue feeding them from my JL 450/4


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

I ran the ML280's....nice sounding tweeter with the ability to get loud. Actually still have em....just waiting for the right install.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> on music, any speaker can handle much more than its stated RMS power handling rating as long as its an unclipped signal.


^^ x2

From what I understand (not saying I understand everything), even the RMS numbers isn't really an accurate way to judge a system as a whole. However I do tire of the car audio fascination of over-powering, most quoting 'head-room'. I've rarely if ever over powered any driver, home or car audio.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Tiago729 said:


> The mids are 125 RMS, the tweeters are 25 RMS. In my opinion 150 RMS would be perfect for the mid. As long as you cross them at 80Hz the JL HD that you have would be plenty. If you cross them any lower you will definitely need more power, but again in my opinion, that's what subs are for. My installer once crossed them at 45 Hz, believe me they can take it but they will not sound as good as they should. They're much more articulated if you cross them at the right frequency. And active please. For the money you will spend on those crossovers, you can literally pick up a DSP here in the forum. Passively crossing those speakers would be a sin.


The tweeters are way over 25rms. My HT28s are 90rms


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## Tacoma Dynamics (Mar 21, 2014)

My amp is rated at 60 watts per channel and gives them all they can handle. And I believe they are a great set of speakers. very detailed. If you like volume and clarity I would not cross them lower than 80hz. like someone said previously, your sub usually has that area covered well already so why waist the power down there and potentially cause issues up higher. I've been actively tuning them for a year now and started crossing them at 60-65hz 24db and now I wouldn't dare after turning the sub off and hearing them struggle during louder listens. volume and clarity.


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## Tacoma Dynamics (Mar 21, 2014)

Def not trying to imply more power is not needed. I had 150 watts on each and all was just fine. Proper adjustments that's all. I would say 150 is plenty from my experience.


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

I've got the three way set (ML280, ML700, ML1600) all active with the mid and tweeter getting about 150 WPC off an TI21600.5 and the ML1600's are getting about 200 WPC off a TI21000.4 and it sounds amazing. My other car has a set of three way Dyn's and it's hard to tell them apart!


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

We generally power these passive with 150 watts, 100 min. or active 100-150 to the woofer, same to the tweeter, but keeping the level down to them in the processor. Cross tweeter at about 2500 to 3500 at 12 dB depending on what sounds best. Passive I believe is biamp-able so if you have it, use it because it's a good one.


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

i regularly run 260rms to my midbass ML1600 150 to my ML700 and 150 to my ML28


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Speaking of the Mille. Has anyone here ever went from the XL to Mille in the same install? Is it worth $800 out of pocket or is it a minimal gain?


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Accordman said:


> i regularly run 260rms to my midbass ML1600 150 to my ML700 and 150 to my ML28


That's what I like to hear. I'm actually I'm in the process of installing these components now. My mids will have 300w rms on tap, and wasn't sure how much of that they would actually be able to handle. I'm thinking my ears will handle less...


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## Sonusray (Jun 14, 2015)

125/150 A/B is more than enough.

I send them 500 passive on our board.
as for the xover point.
I stick around 50hz 24db BW with 150-180w


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

DDfusion said:


> Speaking of the Mille. Has anyone here ever went from the XL to Mille in the same install? Is it worth $800 out of pocket or is it a minimal gain?


minimal gain

mid drivers sound different but the tweeter is relatively the same tweeter.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Accordman said:


> minimal gain
> 
> mid drivers sound different but the tweeter is relatively the same tweeter.


That's what I figured. At this point if I want better it's going to cost way more.


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

DDfusion said:


> That's what I figured. At this point if I want better it's going to cost way more.


i mean if you go three way the 3" is much different, the tweeter is the same, the xl driver and mille driver sound completely different but its subjective to the listener...the mille play lower than the xl but the XL seems snappier so to speak. 

Ive owned every revision of the Mille and ive owned the XL in the past...I run dual mille 3 way sets now, and i dont think id ever go back to XL's but when i owned my XL set i loved them more than anything else id ever had minus my rainbow reference.


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

&#55357;&#56881;&#55357;&#56881;&#55357;&#56881;&#55357;&#56883;&#55357;&#56883;&#55357;&#56883;&#55357;&#56883; what????? The ml280 tweeter is AMAZING! There is no other tweeter by Hertz that sounds even close to it. The ML1650.3 also is unmatched (sound quality wise) in the Hertz lineup. Trust me, you'll hear a major difference, especially if ur working with a respectable Digital Sound Processor and have someone do your tuning that is trained to do so.


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## Darkrider (May 11, 2012)

I'm actually swapping out my Mille set today for Focal KRX2's. I feel like the KRX2's are a little more detailed up top and the Focal midbass is just nuts. Maybe if I threw more power at the ML1600's they would be equal, but with the KRX2's being 2ohm, they get the power easier. I was putting 200w to the ML1600's and another 200w to the ML280's. I had the ML280's crossed at 2.5k on 18db slope. They are GREAT tweeters. The ML280's are why I bought the set to begin with.


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

Darkrider said:


> I'm actually swapping out my Mille set today for Focal KRX2's. I feel like the KRX2's are a little more detailed up top and the Focal midbass is just nuts. Maybe if I threw more power at the ML1600's they would be equal, but with the KRX2's being 2ohm, they get the power easier. I was putting 200w to the ML1600's and another 200w to the ML280's. I had the ML280's crossed at 2.5k on 18db slope. They are GREAT tweeters. The ML280's are why I bought the set to begin with.



i had the krx3 setup cool set of drivers, i didnt like the mids i liked the tweet lol


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## mrpeabody (May 26, 2010)

MrGreen83 said:


> �������������� what????? The ml280 tweeter is AMAZING! There is no other tweeter by Hertz that sounds even close to it. The ML1650.3 also is unmatched (sound quality wise) in the Hertz lineup. Trust me, you'll hear a major difference, especially if ur working with a respectable Digital Sound Processor and have someone do your tuning that is trained to do so.


lol, oh boy.


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

mrpeabody said:


> lol, oh boy.


Someone got ahold of the Elettromedia koolaid


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

Accordman said:


> Someone got ahold of the Elettromedia koolaid


Going off what I've personally heard. Not just talking out of my ass


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

MrGreen83 said:


> Going off what I've personally heard. Not just talking out of my ass



Sounds like one in the same. He said she said isn't experience. I own all of the sets in question.


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

Big whoop....I own the Mille 1650.3's and the 280.3's. Like I said....I gave my opinion on what I've heard. How about u get off MY dick and my comment, and focus on answering the OP's post. Cuz me liking something that I've heard, has nothing to do with you....


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## mrpeabody (May 26, 2010)

MrGreen83 said:


> Big whoop....I own the Mille 1650.3's and the 280.3's. Like I said....I gave my opinion on what I've heard. How about u get off MY dick and my comment, and focus on answering the OP's post. Cuz me liking something that I've heard, has nothing to do with you....


To be fair you pretty much set the stage with your response to him talking about there not being a difference really in the tweeters. 



> �������������� what????? The ml280 tweeter is AMAZING! There is no other tweeter by Hertz that sounds even close to it. The ML1650.3 also is unmatched (sound quality wise) in the Hertz lineup. Trust me, you'll hear a major difference, especially if ur working with a respectable Digital Sound Processor and have someone do your tuning that is trained to do so.


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

Don't hate that you paid more for a tweeter that's the same thing as the other ones.

You paid for a metal shroud nothing more


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Wow, what's wrong with you two? Settle down, seriously 

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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

Did get a little heated...


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

1 person got heated, i simply was answering the questions in the thread and he didnt seem to like that i said the mille tweet is pretty much the same as 2 other tweets lol


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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

Sorry to bring this thread back up but...I've finally got my three way kit back in (2nd Gen not latest, ml1600, ml700, ml280). For those running active, what crossover frequencies and slopes are you running? My mid bass are low in the doors firing straight across, mid range are in pillars firing towards opposite headrests and slightly up, tweeters in sail pillars but firing in same plane as mid ranges 

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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

I've been looking more into this. The tweeters are not even close to the same.


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

DDfusion said:


> I've been looking more into this. The tweeters are not even close to the same.


how did you "look into it"?

I have all of them sitting right next to me they are all pretty much the same barring some cosmetic grill change and of the most expensive of the 3 a metal housing. 


Crossovers

MIdbass 60-40 24db
Midrange 400 - 3500 24db
Tweeter 3500 up 24db

i use that as a starting point and mess around from there depending on power and what drivers do in said car.


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## Tiago729 (May 24, 2015)

Accordman said:


> how did you "look into it"?
> 
> I have all of them sitting right next to me they are all pretty much the same barring some cosmetic grill change and of the most expensive of the 3 a metal housing.
> 
> ...


Just curious, how would you cross them in a 2-way setup?


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Different freq response, different sensitivity, different size. 

How did I find this? The website.


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## Darkrider (May 11, 2012)

Tiago729 said:


> Just curious, how would you cross them in a 2-way setup?


I believe I had the ML280's crossed at 2.5k @ 18 db and the ML1600's running from 150hz to 2.5k @ 18db also. It sounded amazing.

The Hertz passive crossover Lo/Hi is 2.5k @ 18db also.

The ML1600's have a range of 40hz-7khz according to Hertz, but their response graph indicates beaming at 1.5khz. I was looking to add the ML700 to mine before I switched them out for the Focal KRX2's.

I actually kept my Hertz set as I'm not 100% sure I'm going to keep the KRX2's in my Kia. It is a very good 2-way set.

Also, I call B.S. on the lower line (HT28) tweeters being the same as the ML280's (if I read all that right). The sensitivity, freq. response, FS, etc. are all different.


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

I own & used the Audison Voce components for a while. I forget what model the Voce AV 1.0 compares to in the Hertz lineup, but the Mille tweeter did not sound the same to me.


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

DDfusion said:


> Different freq response, different sensitivity, different size.
> 
> How did I find this? The website.


they are all 28mm drivers.... (hertz site is wrong on them being 35mm lol i have 4 of them sitting right here)


frequency response on the website of the ml280 legend and the HT28 are pretty much identical, sure the impedance spike is in a different place but nobody is playing them there anyhow, in the meat and potato of the driver "where everyone will use them" you will not be able to tell a difference between Voce av1, HT28, and Mille Legend 280.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Don't know what to tell you. Specs are different. They do look the same. 
A 9500 looks like a HDC3.


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

DDfusion said:


> Don't know what to tell you. Specs are different. They do look the same.
> A 9500 looks like a HDC3.



I have them all, I have an RTA , and can attest that all 3 are one in the same barring cosmetic differences. I've learned over the years of being a dealer for them "since 06" that the website is definitely not the best place to get information. For some reason they are TERRIBLE about proofreading and giving all the information you want in a factual manor. Which is very unfortunate in a way for prospective clients because that is one of peoples first lines of appearance for the product line.....

On the other hand they have hundreds of TRAINED dealers whom have tons of hands on time with all of the line and in the end, they ARE a boutique brand although they are rolling more mainstream than they once did in the past.



the Digital Designs thing is a whole different story that we wont even waste our time getting into.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

If that's the case than the XL is a better combo isn't it?


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

DDfusion said:


> If that's the case than the XL is a better combo isn't it?


the drivers are very different (6.5)

but i do feel the XL is a better bang for your buck than the Mille line.

I personally like the XL driver more than mille but dont like the hi energy 3 over the mille 3 

I run dual mille 3 way sets because im not willing to run the hi energy 3" and i just have an OCD thing about running a mille 3 and tweet and hi energy 6.5" plus in my personal vehicle, the differences between the 2 sound characteristics are going to get lost with the volume im playing at anyhow. Aesthetically i find the hi energy tweeter to be ugly, and i can see all my drivers in my build so im not ok with that lol.

my wife has the Voce 2 way system in her vehicle and its probably coming out for either hi energyxl or mille because i dont like that the midbass driver just doesn't have the authority of the hertz line in the midbass.


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## Darkrider (May 11, 2012)

Accordman said:


> I have them all, I have an RTA , and can attest that all 3 are one in the same barring cosmetic differences. I've learned over the years of being a dealer for them "since 06" that the website is definitely not the best place to get information. For some reason they are TERRIBLE about proofreading and giving all the information you want in a factual manor. Which is very unfortunate in a way for prospective clients because that is one of peoples first lines of appearance for the product line.....
> 
> On the other hand they have hundreds of TRAINED dealers whom have tons of hands on time with all of the line and in the end, they ARE a boutique brand although they are rolling more mainstream than they once did in the past.
> 
> ...


An RTA might not show much difference between the two, but I'd be willing to bet a Klippel would. With EQ, I'd be willing to bet that I could make a Focal TN53K sound indiscernible from a ML280. So you are saying that you have disassembled a ML280, and HT28, and HT25 and they are the same, guts-wise? The ML280 didn't have a double magnet structure, or the others _did_?

Forgive me for not just taking your word for it. Sadly, aside from one local shop, just about every car audio store and dealer I have ever dealt with were most concerned with dollars and cents. Several of them didn't even know their own products. Salesmen, not enthusiasts. I had one such gentleman tell me that companies *only* make 2 ohm drivers because they sound louder on a sound board and people would buy the louder speakers.


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## Accordman (Jan 15, 2008)

Darkrider said:


> An RTA might not show much difference between the two, but I'd be willing to bet a Klippel would. With EQ, I'd be willing to bet that I could make a Focal TN53K sound indiscernible from a ML280. So you are saying that you have disassembled a ML280, and HT28, and HT25 and they are the same, guts-wise? The ML280 didn't have a double magnet structure, or the others _did_?
> 
> Forgive me for not just taking your word for it. Sadly, aside from one local shop, just about every car audio store and dealer I have ever dealt with were most concerned with dollars and cents. Several of them didn't even know their own products. Salesmen, not enthusiasts. I had one such gentleman tell me that companies *only* make 2 ohm drivers because they sound louder on a sound board and people would buy the louder speakers.


An EQ is plain cheating , you need to test them no eq driver for driver, of course you can salt and pepper a tweeter into anything you like, im talking about grabbing out of the 2 boxes and listening.

the whole lineup is klippel tested, doesnt mean much if i can switch them out and you have a blindfold and you cannot tell me a difference. 

the HT25 isnt in question here

i have taken apart the ht28 and av1 tweeters and not the most current gen but an older gen ML280 tweet...

what im saying really has nothing to do with dollars and cents...youd think as a dealer id be all for people buying the mille tweeter over everything else in all cases. I love the ML280 or i wouldnt personally own them (aesthetics mostly as i hate the look of the Hi energy xl tweet). The waveguides/grills are really the only differences anymore....back in the day you could change the chambers of the ML280 and change the sound of them, not the case anymore


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## Tiago729 (May 24, 2015)

Accordman said:


> the drivers are very different (6.5)
> 
> but i do feel the XL is a better bang for your buck than the Mille line.
> 
> ...


That is the same reason why I picked the Mille over the Voce. That mid bass is just plain ballsy! It's like having the best worlds, clarity and power. I often find myself flirting with other speakers but it's really hard to give up that combination. Plus it doesn't matter how good everyone's equipment is, we're always looking at what else is out there .


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## GarchingS54 (Jan 17, 2016)

If you like the 6,5" Mille in 3 way, you have to try the ML1800.3. 
I guarantee you, you will love it. The different between the ML1650.3 ( or older Ml1600) and the ML1800.3 is much more, than suggested by the parameters. Especialy in bigger doors. And they still sound great in 2way together with the ML280.3 tweeters.


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## lust4sound (Apr 9, 2008)

FWIW, I am powering the older ML165 with the silver cones with a Fosgate 800A2 in a 3 way active setup. Installed in OEM door location (I/B) tuned properly, they sound like mini subwoofers in my doors.. If I shut my sub section off, tune down to 40Hz, they truly respond although the response drops steeply below 60hz.. they do thump from 60Hz and sing nicely to 6k.. 

I absolutely love them, haven't heard them bottom out once. I'm actually looking for a second pair to add to these, my sub section is pretty extreme for an SQ setup..

Not sure how the newer product compares to what I have, but that's my two cents and I hope it helps

Fosgate Punch 800A2.. That's 200 watts RMS x 2 @ 4 ohms with 400 watt x 2 capability @ 2 ohms per side. This 2 channel was usually paired with subs, enough power on tap to tickle your nostrils.. The dynamics afforded by adding such a large amp to a pair of midbass drivers is priceless.. Effortless sound, sub-bass performance..


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

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## TwistdInfinity (Jun 7, 2015)

The ml1600.2 woofers don't really fit in my door that well. They restrict my windscreens from going down past half way. I can't space them further out or I hit the door trims. 

I noticed the hertz mids from the model down of the same generation are 5mm shallower (I've got a nice blank right now on name). How do these mids sound? Would I notice much difference if I swapped out for them? I'm only running them 70hz to 280hz anyway 

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## sleeved (Jul 20, 2016)

I have ran 250rms per side to mlk165.3 from day one with no issues. Xover 70hz 18db. Clean, dynamic, and well balanced midbass. The tweeters are way more rounded the the HT28 that the xl's have.


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