# Combining 4-channel amp with headunit amp to retain fade/balance/equalizer



## Phil135 (Sep 2, 2017)

Hello everyone, I'm a n00b doing my first install in my 2007 Honda Civic LX Coupe. I've ordered all of my parts and splurged much further than I've wanted to. Before I attempt to install everything, I have one final wiring question. First off, here are all of my current parts:

Headunit: Boss Audio BV9370B
Boss Audio Systems BV9370B Bluetooth, In-Dash, Double-Din, MP3, Digital Media, AM/FM Receiver, 6.2" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FC3SUL0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_XPfySDLpGLFcc

Subwoofer: Phoenix Gold Rsd-12d DVC 4/4 Ohm 12in (500w RMS)
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_218RSD12D/Phoenix-Gold-RSd12d.html
I already own this sub, so I can't return it or get another one.

FRONT Speakers/Tweeters: Phoenix Gold Rsd65cs Component 6.5 Speakers with Tweaters and Crossovers (120w Total RMS)
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7294_Phoenix-Gold-RSd-65cs-RSd65cs.html
I already own this speaker/tweeter/crossover combo, so I can't return it

REAR Speakers: Stock Honda Civic LX non-premium 6.5in speakers (I don't know the RMS and specs on these)

Amplifier: Pioneer GM-D8604 Class FD 4-Channel Bridgeable Amplifier
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A02PG0C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_5StQzb072VCRK

Speaker Wire: FosPower 16AWG Speaker Wire [16 Gauge | 100 FT] Premium Spooled Oxygen-Free Copper OFC Speaker Wire with Clear PVC Jacket & Polarity Stripe
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L0I2BR0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_VWtQzbX6P45SV

Power/Ground Wire Kit: Kicker 4 Gauge
Kicker PK4 4 Gauge OFC Power Amplifier Installation Kit
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IFA6C1S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qfGQzbR0MP9HA

RCA Cables: Kicker 4-channel K-Series
Kicker KI44 4-Meters 4-Channel K-Series RCA Audio Interconnect Cable https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I4E74VM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_ogGQzb5YBFNH5

Speaker Wire: 16 Gauge OFC 100ft
FosPower 16AWG Speaker Wire [16 Gauge | 100 FT] Premium Spooled Oxygen-Free Copper OFC Speaker Wire with Clear PVC Jacket & Polarity Stripe https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L0I2BR0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_ihGQzb5YBPSM1


My goal is to connect my front (aftermarket) speakers, rear (stock) speakers, subwoofer (aftermarket), and 4-channel amplifier together while retaining fade/balance/equalizer on all 5 speakers. I don't like the idea of ditching my rear stock speakers because I do have backseat passengers often (I can't imagine that it would sound good to them) and I like having a fuller sound stage with some audio from the rear of the car. I also would like to refrain from combining front and rear speakers onto the same 2 channels because I don't know the resistance and specs of the rears. In my limited understanding, the rear speakers would never quite match the fronts in volume if they were on the same 2 channels, or the rears would be likely to blow when the fronts would be driven at a decent volume (feel free to let me know if my understanding is incorrect here).

On the new headunit, there are 4 RCA channels as well as two blue "Sub-out1" and "Sub-out2" RCA-type connections (photo included). Also, there are the standard high-level splice inputs on the head unit for the speakers (photo also included).

Here is what I was thinking:
1) Attach my bridged DVC sub to one channel on the amp, and attach that RCA from the amp to the "Sub-out" RCAs on the head unit.
2) Attach my front speaker/tweeters to the other 2 channels on the amp using the "front" RCAs on the head unit.
3) Attach the high-level signal wires from my stock rear speakers to the high-level "rear" wires on the head unit amp.

If I do this, should I be able to power all the speakers sufficiently AND retain fade/balance/equalizer function on the head unit between all 5 speakers? Thanks!


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## xTHANATOPSISx (Apr 2, 2007)

Well, you say you can't return the speakers and sub and that's probably not a major issue anyway. They'll do. The head unit on the other hand, you should for sure return if you can. Boss is just... bad.

So, barring the head unit the rest seems fine. You have the right idea of how to set things up. The amp powering the components and sub while the deck powers OEM rear speakers is a fine way to go. I suspect if you give it time, you'll find yourself fading out the rears mostly if not entirely.

Problem I see is, and it's not a huge problem, the sub will be getting half its RMS power. Now that's fine provided you set the gain correctly and don't just crank it up because it's less power than the sub can handle as that's not how gain works. It's just that the sub will not be doing all it can, which isn't going to be a ton, frankly. Average excursion and pitiful efficiency. Here's hoping it's really clean and you're after SQ much more than SPL. Half the power is theoretically 3dB loss in SPL. Not much in reality, but it's a thing.

That's all assuming the sub you have is the exact one linked (4 ohm DVC). That amp makes slightly less power at 2 ohms mono than at 4 ohms mono.

So I think you've got the right idea here. Just try and get rid of that Boss head unit. The SQ stinks on Boss stuff, it's not typically reliable, the menus are slow and clunky and the ratings are questionable of not out-right fabrications. Not what I call a reputable company and not one I'd support, even for their best product.


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

xTHANATOPSISx said:


> Well, you say you can't return the speakers and sub and that's probably not a major issue anyway. They'll do. The head unit on the other hand, you should for sure return if you can. Boss is just... bad.
> 
> So, barring the head unit the rest seems fine. You have the right idea of how to set things up. The amp powering the components and sub while the deck powers OEM rear speakers is a fine way to go. I suspect if you give it time, you'll find yourself fading out the rears mostly if not entirely.
> 
> ...


If you read correctly he said it's a 4CHANNEL AMP, he also said he wants to maintain balance and fade setting, so no it is not possible. Solution? Get a 5 channel amp. All fixed. Solution no2. Wire your speakers to headunit and subwoofer to all the channels on the amp bridged way. 

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## maybebigfootisblurr (Nov 4, 2011)

This was answered on your last post, just as you regurgitated it on this post.

"*Re: Finalizing Car Audio Build, Need Advice*
1) The LOC takes the equalized high level and reduces it to low level- that's it...
2) High level is the speaker output from the factory HU. So, wiring the front and rear together reduce the load the HU sees by half.

I personally feel that you would be far better off with cheap aftermarket HU that has aux in and independent sub control. *Run RCA from HU front channel to Pioneer amp- to front speakers, run rear speakers off HU rear speaker level, run RCA from HU sub out to amp- to sub"*


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

kfinch said:


> This was answered on your last post, just as you regurgitated it on this post.
> 
> "*Re: Finalizing Car Audio Build, Need Advice*
> 1) The LOC takes the equalized high level and reduces it to low level- that's it...
> ...


Fade and balance will affect the sub, especially that he won't be using his sub RCA output. It would be better if he ran all 4 speakers off the unit, and an RCA from sub output to the amp. This is the only way to maintain fade and balance if he does not get the correct gear to run it otherwise while maintain the settings he wants. 

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## maybebigfootisblurr (Nov 4, 2011)

welly.anthony.cat said:


> Fade and balance will affect the sub, especially that he won't be using his sub RCA output. It would be better if he ran all 4 speakers off the unit, and an RCA from sub output to the amp. This is the only way to maintain fade and balance if he does not get the correct gear to run it otherwise while maintain the settings he wants.
> 
> Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk


How will fade/balance effect the sub when using Sub Out with independent control?

"Here is what I was thinking:
*1) Attach my bridged DVC sub to one channel on the amp, and attach that RCA from the amp to the "Sub-out" RCAs on the head unit.*
2) Attach my front speaker/tweeters to the other 2 channels on the amp using the "front" RCAs on the head unit.
3) Attach the high-level signal wires from my stock rear speakers to the high-level "rear" wires on the head unit amp."


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

kfinch said:


> How will fade/balance effect the sub when using Sub Out with independent control?


Lmfao, wana show where I said it would? I don't think I did, I'm well aware that you can run the sub on 2 channels sub outs connect to an the other 2 with speakers that front out connect to, but have you forgotten that u can heat up the amp fast this way an send into protect mode if not blow your heat sinks? 

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## maybebigfootisblurr (Nov 4, 2011)

welly.anthony.cat said:


> *Fade and balance will affect the sub, especially that he won't be using his sub RCA output.* It would be better if he ran all 4 speakers off the unit, and an RCA from sub output to the amp. This is the only way to maintain fade and balance if he does not get the correct gear to run it otherwise while maintain the settings he wants.
> 
> Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk



?????


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

kfinch said:


> ?????


If you read it again I said *especially that he won't use sub output* in other words if you did then no it won't an all you had to say was *yes I'm using sub output* easy peezy buddy. 

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## maybebigfootisblurr (Nov 4, 2011)

Number 1 in his OP says he *will* be using sub pre-out. Really confused...


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

kfinch said:


> Number 1 in his OP says he *will* be using sub pre-out. Really confused...


Explain your confusion. 

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## maybebigfootisblurr (Nov 4, 2011)

LMAO what? He said that he is using sub out, but you say that fade/balance will affect the sub. "Especially if he isn't using the sub out" doesn't apply when he* is* using sub out.


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

￼ I really need to stop taking shortcuts lol. 

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## Phil135 (Sep 2, 2017)

xTHANATOPSISx said:


> Well, you say you can't return the speakers and sub and that's probably not a major issue anyway. They'll do. The head unit on the other hand, you should for sure return if you can. Boss is just... bad.
> 
> So, barring the head unit the rest seems fine. You have the right idea of how to set things up. The amp powering the components and sub while the deck powers OEM rear speakers is a fine way to go. I suspect if you give it time, you'll find yourself fading out the rears mostly if not entirely.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the detailed reply, you replied just in time as I'm about to wire everything together haha.

1) I'm not after insane SPL panel-rattling bass, but I am after tight, clean bass. So the slight lack of power to my subwoofer should be okay right? (Once again, assuming I balance the gain of the sub with my speakers).

2) As far as wiring is concerned, should I still use the "Sub-Out" blue RCA for my subwoofer or should I just use one of the regular red/white RCAs for it? I still don't really understand what the difference between those blue "Sub-out" RCAs is vs. the regular red/white RCAs. Someone in this thread was mentioning that using the blue "Sub-out" would send my amp into "protect mode"..?

3) Concerning the head unit, what is a cheap and decent-quality brand when it comes to touchscreen double-din head units?


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## Phil135 (Sep 2, 2017)

welly.anthony.cat said:


> kfinch said:
> 
> 
> > How will fade/balance effect the sub when using Sub Out with independent control?
> ...


Thanks for the reply!

Why would my amp heat up and go into protect mode if I use the sub-out channels? I don't really understand the difference between a regular channel and the blue sub-out channel.


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## xTHANATOPSISx (Apr 2, 2007)

Phil135 said:


> Thank you for the detailed reply, you replied just in time as I'm about to wire everything together haha.
> 
> 1) I'm not after insane SPL panel-rattling bass, but I am after tight, clean bass. So the slight lack of power to my subwoofer should be okay right? (Once again, assuming I balance the gain of the sub with my speakers).
> 
> ...


1. It's fine, but set your gain with a multi-meter at least. Your sub won't likely distort before the amps' output does. If you don't recognize clipping by ear you could still damage the woofer with less than rated power. This is common with people run an amp rated for much less than the subs RMS power, so don't fall victim.

2. I'd try them. I assume it's a pair of mono outputs so they made them something other than white and red, the standard for left and right.

3. Pioneer, JVC, Sony, Kenwood, Alpine, Clarion. If you're in the states, check out Crutchfield for a quality online retailer. Canada as well. Elsewhere I can't help on where to look. You can always look locally where ever you are.



Phil135 said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> Why would my amp heat up and go into protect mode if I use the sub-out channels? I don't really understand the difference between a regular channel and the blue sub-out channel.


Ignore that. He's saying that the amp will work harder with two channels bridged to a sub. He's not wrong, it just doesn't matter since you'll be within the range your amp is designed to handle. You will be asking it to work as hard as it's intended to, but it shouldn't fail just because. Many amps (especially Class D amps like yours) run fine at low impedance daily for years. Pioneer is a value brand but generally reliable.


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## Phil135 (Sep 2, 2017)

Very nicely explained, everything is making sense.

I've taken your advice on buying a different head unit, and I'm looking at this JVC KW-V130BT unit for $165 on Amazon. 

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/ite...tem_campaign&gclid=CNqF96_7sdYCFQcdaQod84gMqA

1) It looks like it has the same 6 preamp channels so I'm assuming I can wire it as discussed previously, right?

2) Any final words of caution before I purchase this head unit?


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## LostnEye (Feb 18, 2016)

Nothing wrong with that JVC unit, it's not great but much better than Boss. I just pulled a Pioneer AVH2700 that is working fine out of my Altima, only upgraded since I got a good deal on another Pioneer with android auto. PM me if interested.

I would run the front speakers off the front channels of the amp sub off the rears and if you want rear fill run it off the deck.


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## Phil135 (Sep 2, 2017)

LostnEye said:


> Nothing wrong with that JVC unit, it's not great but much better than Boss. I just pulled a Pioneer AVH2700 that is working fine out of my Altima, only upgraded since I got a good deal on another Pioneer with android auto. PM me if interested.
> 
> I would run the front speakers off the front channels of the amp sub off the rears and if you want rear fill run it off the deck.


I'm getting free rush shipping with my JVC so I'm gonna go with that. But thanks for the offer, would look into it if I had more time haha.


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## xTHANATOPSISx (Apr 2, 2007)

Phil135 said:


> 2) Any final words of caution before I purchase this head unit?


I generally don't recommend buying from Amazon or their associated re-sellers. You rarely if ever find someone that's an authorized retailer. That means no manufacturer warranty. You'll have to live with Amazon and/or the re-seller's warranty which isn't usually comparable (you can maybe return it for an exchange but usually you end up screwed) and likely doesn't cover for as long.

Heard some complaints about Sonic Electronix as well. Can't verify myself, but they aren't authorized retailers for everything they sell, either. Lots of stuff that comes from buy-outs. When they are out, they are out. No re-orders.

Crutchfield is the only online retailer I know of that is 100% authorized for all the brands they carry and carries basically every major brand of gear. I've bought there in the past, no problems so far.

Otherwise, I'd try to find a local authorized retailer over Amazon. Price isn't worth the possible hassles with unauthorized retailers IMO. Plus with a local retailer you can walk in with cash and walk out with what you want same day.


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## maybebigfootisblurr (Nov 4, 2011)

Phil135 said:


> Thank you for the detailed reply, you replied just in time as I'm about to wire everything together haha.
> 
> 1) I'm not after insane SPL panel-rattling bass, but I am after tight, clean bass. So the slight lack of power to my subwoofer should be okay right? (Once again, assuming I balance the gain of the sub with my speakers).
> 
> ...


The difference between "Sub-out" and the regular red/white RCA's is that the Sub-out channels are independently controlled by the head unit. This the whole reason why an aftermarket head unit was recommended (and explained) on your previous post. Your aftermarket head unit will have separate controls for fade/balance/and sub. Do you recall me explaining that, with the factory head unit, you only have 2 "zones" of control (front/rear)? Yet you are adding a sub (a third "zone"). Therefore, you need 3 independent "zones" of control- hence the need for an aftermarket head unit that has 3 "zones" (front/rear/sub)

*** As for anything welly.anthony.cat posted...it's not that he was incorrect; it just didn't apply to your configuration. You *are* using sub-out, and are using a Class D amp that is stable at 2 ohms bridged.***


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## Phil135 (Sep 2, 2017)

kfinch said:


> Phil135 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for the detailed reply, you replied just in time as I'm about to wire everything together haha.
> ...


I guess I was mistaking zones for channels. But thanks for clearing that up, I'm just extremely happy that I bought an aftermarket HU now.

Oh and sorry for regurgitating a second thread, I was just in a rush and I wasn't getting an answer. Y'all have been very helpful!

I've finished sound deadening all of the resonating panels on my car, I absolutely cannot wait to hear how the car sounds with the deadener!


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## maybebigfootisblurr (Nov 4, 2011)

Phil135 said:


> I guess I was mistaking zones for channels. But thanks for clearing that up, I'm just extremely happy that I bought an aftermarket HU now.
> 
> Oh and sorry for regurgitating a second thread, I was just in a rush and I wasn't getting an answer. Y'all have been very helpful!
> 
> I've finished sound deadening all of the resonating panels on my car, I absolutely cannot wait to hear how the car sounds with the deadener!


Just keep in mind that when someone takes the time to fully answer all of your questions, it's frustrating to see the questions asked again by the same person. If you need more clarification...fire away. A good indicator that the correct answer was given is to see the lack of rebuttals by other members. In your previous post, no one had anything else to say after my reply. I stated what needed to be done, with an explanation as to "why?". Can't do much more.

I used the term "zones" to help you better understand. In your previous post, there was a lot of confusion due to lack of understanding. To simplify things, I referred to your configuration as a front "zone", a rear "zone", and a sub "zone". Looks like you're on track. Good luck


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