# 06 Civic coupe : Slight change of plans



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

My primary goal is to re-gain as much trunk real-estate as possible and retain easy spare tire access. 
I decided to ditch the existing wooded amp rack, for a lighter weight and stronger, more compact false floor/amp-rack. 

To accomplish my goal, metal tubing had to be used, so i bought myself a new toy

Special thanx for Travis[a.k.a. Salad Fingers] for the Hertz/Audison stickers.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I'm not going to explain the step by step, so i'll let the images speak for themselves.
The idea was to hide everything in the spare tire well, hanging, right over the spare tire w/o touching it and retaining full access to the tire and tools.
Since I switched to the MS-8 processor and wanted to fully exploit it's potential, i had to add a few channels of amplification for the center and rear speakers.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Here you can see that i chose to split the hinged rack into 2 parts. I gained two things, doing it this way. Full access to the spare tire and a much lower load to lift vs. a one piece lid.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Ventilation is a must Cool air is pulled through 2 h-o fans and diffused by the dish of the spare tire's rim. The hot air is pushed out through a grill, at the foot of the sub-woofer wall. There is room to add exhaust fans, if ever the intake fans do not move enough air.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Carpeted and semi cleaned up.
I need to start wiring this up
edit> The large gap between the MS-8 & the Arc ks amp[last image on the right], is for a small 4 ch amp to drive the center channel and rear coaxials.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Before someone comments on the ventilation grills,not being in line.....
There is a simple explanation. The spare tire well is offset to the left to make room for the oem muffler. So, the grill for the intake fans are centered with the spare tire well and the exhaust grill is centered with the inside of the trunk.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

What a waste to have the amp covered under......


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

^^^^hey thanx for your positive comments :kaboom:
maybe i should bolt them to the outside of the car to show em off, better.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking also. I need more examples for this. Then I may have the idea for my 6.9.... At the moment the fellow is crying as still laying in the store room.

BTW, the amp has build in fan, so I think by mounting it on top, it should have enough ventillations.


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## basshead (Sep 12, 2008)

Even better in real, now go power this thing up!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Hey thanx for the comments, Louis.

Now go and bring back that 7 foot tall trophy.


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## Audio Options (Aug 28, 2008)

what subs are you running, what kind of enclosure? Do you have pics of the center channel?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

My subs are AE IB12 8ohm wired in parallel. There is no enclosure, just a wall. The center channel is still under development in my head. Let me tell you this, it will be unique. 

My front stage will be composed of the following>
L1 PRO SE, L3 PRO SE in the pillars.
L8 in the doors
Jl C5 coaxials for rearfill
Boston Pro50 c-channel[due to size constraints]


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## jorgegarcia (Mar 8, 2008)

amitaF said:


> .... for a lighter weight and stronger, more compact false floor/amp-rack.
> 
> To accomplish my goal, metal tubing had to be used...


Is there a reason you are using square tubing? 

I was talking to a metal worker the other day hoping to do some metal rack for my amplifiers and he said that "L" strips would be plenty strong. Is he right?

From what I see it would be "easier" to weld the structure with the "L" strip and he has access to this material.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Yes, I suppose it could be plenty strong, if it is well thought out. Angle iron, just does not have the torsional resistance a tube possesses, but I don't see why it would not work. I used 1/2'' square tubing +1/4'' birch plywood[screwed n glued]. Why 1/2'' tubing?....it gave me the strength to weight ratio i was looking for.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

This is taken from my previous build thread.
Basically i had 1/4'' steel rings cut on a cnc plasma cutter and welded it in place, using 1/4'' dia. stilts and the ring is also attached to the door's re-enforcment bar, to make the woofer mount as rigid as possible. The gap behind the ring was filled with bondo-hair. The door was treated with 1/8'' hdf [to block the holes] and rubberized undercoating was applied to the hdf , to prevent it from absorbing moisture. A layer of dynamat extreme was applied and the woofer surround is mass loaded/dampened with top quality duct seal compound.


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## arrivalanche (Jun 27, 2008)

loving the amp rack! I had the same idea in mind with my civic coupe when I built mine. One 10" glasses in the side corner was plenty for me though. Do you really need 3 12s though? It seems like it would be a lot of bass for a car that small.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Having the subs mounted Infinite Baffle, you need a lot of cone area vs. an enclosure. 3 twelves is the equivalent of 2 fifteens, which is what most I-B set-ups are rocking.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Damn good work. What's your experience with metal design and fabrication?

Looks like the gear is top shelf, what's the goal as far as competing?


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## grantwb1 (Apr 4, 2010)

Dude that is one sic install. I love that trunk and the metal work for the amps!!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

thank you.
i'm a machinist by trade, but never really worked as a ''machinist'' . i basically ran maintenance and repair shops[in various domains], until i got a travelling job as a service tech/tech consultant 11 years ago. and for the past 6 years, i have been installing and servicing orchestra pit lifts and theater rigging. and as a kid/teen my main hobby was building stuff published in popular electronics.
you can say, jack of all trades , master of none.

here is something my current employer manufactures

http://www.galainfo.com/en/video_rich.htm


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I like the way you did the doors. Great job, man.

Just a suggestion... have you considered strapping the door with a piece of metal tubing or angle iron to help stiffen up the area even more?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> I like the way you did the doors. Great job, man.
> 
> Just a suggestion... have you considered strapping the door with a piece of metal tubing or angle iron to help stiffen up the area even more?


 i thought of that, but after welding in a strut, from the least supported ares of the speaker baffle to the door's cross-bar....the baffle does not flex


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

So I only got a couple things to say. Number one, outstanding work my friend as usual. Number two, I'm guessing that by some peoples response, you're not nearly flashy enough and should probably vibrantly paint your amps and show them off. Third, where are your door build pics with the hdf? I want to see this cause yours came out very flat, mine not so flat and I have issues with the door trim staying on, or did anyway. Lastly, what will it take to get you to Sactown to build my amp rack out of metal! LOL! 

Keep up the good work. I'm very impressed! Way to go!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

thanx , scooter!

i was thinking> fire engine red heat-sinks with gold dragons air-brush work and replacing the carpeted floor panels with multi-colored lighted plexiglass tiles..












on a serious note> man, what a difference in trunk space!!!!!!!!!!
I was able to fit all my travel bags with room to spare. FUNCTION OVER FLASH


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

amitaF said:


> i thought of that, but after welding in a strut, from the least supported ares of the speaker baffle to the door's cross-bar....the baffle does not flex


That's a damn good idea. Only question I would have though is does it resonate still?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Although , i have not yet played music through the woofers, i did knock the perimeter of the metal baffle ring, using a 1lb dead-blow hammer and added duct seal putty , until it sounded ''dead'' [there is alot more putty on the interior of the door than what you see in the picture.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Third, where are your door build pics with the hdf? I want to see this cause yours came out very flat, mine not so flat and I have issues with the door trim staying on, or did anyway.


i did not take many pics of my door plugs, 'cause they were done really quickly. i just made cardboard templates that fit perfectly on the lip in the depressions. are your cables causing the bumps? if that is the case, i cut slits to accommodate them and closed the slits with dampener.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Bored and stuck in Alaska, I thought I would update my system layout.
For my center channel, I cannot use anything bigger than 5.25'' driver(s) the civic dash limits the width and height of the driver that can be used. Depthwise is another story. If required I can use 2 x 5.25'' drivers in line, firing into the windshield. Comments are welcome.


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## SoundChaser (Apr 3, 2009)

amitaF said:


> Bored and stuck in Alaska, I thought I would update my system layout.


Bored? I wish i could remember that feeling.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

tomorrow, i'll be in l-a, getting my hands on some new goodies...that will make me smile.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

This is a car...... This is not a house..... I guess a HATL3 or L4 are more than enough.....


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

New goodies are nice!


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

O kyheng, even I have to ask what that means?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

kyheng said:


> This is a car...... This is not a house..... I guess a HATL3 or L4 are more than enough.....


I wish I knew wtf you are talking about


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

my sub-woofers are too big


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Must be!


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

From my point of view :
1. all speakers should be the same brand at least for the front stage.
2. center channel or rear channel should not be too loud, else it may spoil your front stage
3. powering a sub with its best enclosure will be far better than power 3 subs with not their best enclosure. 

A car's cabin are not that big compare to a house's room, so putting some bigger drivers but you can't optimum all its potential are kinda waste. And that's a coaxial, right?
Even my sub I take it out becuase I can't stand the punch by the fellow. It is just a single sub with its "close to perfect" enclosure. And yet I'm suffering from it when I turn the volume up to max. I almost vommit at that time....

At the end, it still boils down to what we want our system to be. A SQ system or a SPL for bling bling system.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

kyheng said:


> From my point of view :
> 1. all speakers should be the same brand at least for the front stage.it's your theory, and it is not shared by many
> 2. center channel or rear channel should not be too loud, else it may spoil your front stagethere is not much chance of that happening with only 50wrms/ch
> 3. powering a sub with its best enclosure will be far better than power 3 subs with not their best enclosure. I have no enclosure...it's IB. Funny how many members have 2 x IB15 or 3 x IB12 and swear by them
> ...


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## SoundChaser (Apr 3, 2009)

For me an SQ system that can get super loud is where it's at.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

^^^ x 2

sq with cojones is where it is at.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

1. It was not my theory, but my installer's
2. Your center....
3. Well, indeed 50W means nothing, if the driver were to be rated 50W with efficiencies of 80dB, and compare to other drivers with 88dB but can take power of 20W only. Which will be easier to push? The 20W or 50W?

That's why I choose all the same brand, with same sensitivities(except tweeter, sub 90dB and mid, woofer 88dB). But my rear fill only 80dB rated 4W


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

kyheng said:


> 1. It was not my theory, but my installer's
> 2. Your center....
> 3. Well, indeed 50W means nothing, if the driver were to be rated 50W with efficiencies of 80dB, and compare to other drivers with 88dB but can take power of 20W only. Which will be easier to push? The 20W or 50W?
> 
> That's why I choose all the same brand, with same sensitivities(except tweeter, sub 90dB and mid, woofer 88dB). But my rear fill only 80dB rated 4W


my installer says different , my center....what?, your wattage argument is irrelevant....
you prefer chinese food, i prefer malay cusine...to each his own
if cramming your personal tastes down somebody's throat is your idea of constructive criticism, you are not posting on the right thread.


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## basshead (Sep 12, 2008)

kyheng said:


> 1. It was not my theory, but my installer's
> 2. Your center....
> 3. Well, indeed 50W means nothing, if the driver were to be rated 50W with efficiencies of 80dB, and compare to other drivers with 88dB but can take power of 20W only. Which will be easier to push? The 20W or 50W?
> 
> That's why I choose all the same brand, with same sensitivities(except tweeter, sub 90dB and mid, woofer 88dB). But my rear fill only 80dB rated 4W


are you high?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

must be the glue...


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Great install.

I'll tell ya those side profile speaker templates are one of the smartest
idea's I've seen in a long time! Really neat......... That should be in EVERY
speaker packing.

How did you hinge the amp rack? or what type of hinge did you use? I 
would bet the frame work you did vs other widely used materials is far
less weight also?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

hey thanx!. i got the idea, while browsing the hybrid site and found line drawing pdf(s). i played around with the proportions, untill the drawing was close enough to provide a viable template. i used carpet glue and i recycled a pizza box lid to stiffen it up.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> How did you hinge the amp rack? or what type of hinge did you use? I
> would bet the frame work you did vs other widely used materials is far
> less weight also?


 i used 3 hinges per side[cheap 1.5'' wide, galvanized, h-depot specials] and welded them in. i originally bought piano hinge, but removing the piano hinge pin is impossible , due to the length of the pin.
using metal was the logical thing to do. strength to weight and strength to size ratios were the deciding factors. the whole floor,completely assembled,minus the amps, weighs about the same or less than the 3/4''x16''x27'', carpet covered, birch plywood that previously covered my spare tire. 
If i had access to a tig welder[i do, but i refuse to kiss ''company ass'' to get permission to use it], i would of used aluminum, instead of steel.

I for-see a spool-gun attachment[to weld aluminum], in the near future, for my mig-welder


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

amitaF said:


> FUNCTION OVER FLASH


BLASPHEMY!


(j/k. This is how I prefer to do my own systems.)

Jay


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

kyheng said:


> From my point of view :
> 1. all speakers should be the same brand at least for the front stage.
> 2. center channel or rear channel should not be too loud, else it may spoil your front stage


do you realize how contradictory these two are?

your center is part of your front stage, silly. Therefore, by your own rules, it should have the same sensitivity as the other front stage drivers, and if all your front stage drivers should have the same sensitivity, why recommend the center be less loud than the other fronts? 

Rear fill, I'm with you there. But everything else you said (that I grepped out of your quote), I disagree with. 


PS: The single best car I've heard to date has 2 18's, and was built by a former SPL record holder, who just so happened to win his class at MECA worlds last year in SQ. Feel free to tell him his car has too big of subs.


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## ibanzil (Jun 29, 2008)

Def gotta get the spool gun attachment. I figured IDE give it a try without it, took an hour to get the wire back out. Ended up just brazing. Brazing is super easy with aluminum.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

yeah...the aluminum wire is really limp....i can just imagine the mess


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Dude! I have been asleep at the wheel over here. How did I miss this new iteration of your build? One word, AWESOME! The amp rack is simply excellent, well done!

Maybe I missed it, but you originally said you were going with the L3 Pro then your diagram has the L4. Did you change your mind or will you be using the L4 temporarily until the L3 pro is released?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Hey thanx, Trevor. Apart from the L1 se...the front stage is subject to change. The L3 pro is most probably the ideal candidate for my install. If that happens ,the L4 might end up as center channel.[something I've been juggling with, in my mind for weeks] 
I fabbed a single L1/L4 baffle, to play around with, and the more i look at it, the less i want something that large on my dash.


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

very nice build! i like your style.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

thank you sir.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I just got my hands on my rearfill /center channel amp[us acoustics usa4050]
It not a particularly good looking amp, but it is a Zed design and seems to be very well built. 50wrms x 4 @ 4ohms and most importantly it's surprisingly small #1 priority] and i got it for a reasonable price and the previous owner seems to have taken super good care of it.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

where is your center channel going? Short of molding the dash and then building it up, I didn't see a way to incorporate it without it sticking out like a sore thumb. :/


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> where is your center channel going? Short of molding the dash and then building it up, I didn't see a way to incorporate it without it sticking out like a sore thumb. :/


On our dash, we do not have many options. Like you said...mold something onto the dash and try keep those curves flowing. Even venting the enclosure,sinking the driver magnets into the dash is a challenge, due to the duct work, right underneath the ideal center channel location. Forget anything bigger than one or a pair of 5.25'' drivers.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I had a hard time getting a 3" to go in there. I gave up on the idea because molding the dash wasn't feasible, and I wasn't about to start cutting it. 

So, how do you plan on building your setup? You've got some really good ideas, so I'm interested in seeing/hearing your thoughts on this.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I have a knack with finding ''creative solutions'' for problems. Being 4000 miles from home, I can only theorize, at the moment. But rest assured that my center channel build will be well documented. And i will do my best to keep it from looking like this.









''creative solutions'' is something i borrowed from my employer's brochure.


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

man,... some ones been busy since I last looked.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

After re-reading Andy Wehmeyer's recommendations for rearfill / center channel requirements, on the MS-8 thread, I re-organized my layout a bit and also decided to keep the L4 as mids.
I reviewed the specs of many shallow drivers, I decided to settle on the Tang Band W4-1757sb full range as a center channel.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

I like where your plans are going. Do you think the Tang Band 4" center will be able to keep up with the L4/L1Pro SE combo? After listening to the MS-8 the last week or so I now have a greater appreciation of how important the center actually is.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Trevor, if the t-b driver cannot keep up, I can add a 2nd driver or, the hertz space 6 or the zapco slim line 6.5''. I will keep that in mind, when I build the c-channel pod.
From what you are hearing in your volvo..Is the center channel volume fairly loud or almost as loud as your left and right channels?


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

amitaF said:


> Trevor, if the t-b driver cannot keep up, I can add a 2nd driver or, the hertz space 6 or the zapco slim line 6.5''. I will keep that in mind, when I build the c-channel pod.
> From what you are hearing in your volvo..Is the center channel volume fairly loud or almost as loud as your left and right channels?


It really depends on the song, but on average the center provides slightly more output than the L or R drivers. I will say I am very happy with having put the extra effort into getting a midbass in there. It was a real pain in the ass and I realize not every car could practically have a dedicated midbass, but it was definitely time well spent. 

I think your plan sounds great though, I am excited to hear your impressions of that T-B driver.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

The civ's dash poses a particular challenge for c-channel installation. Alot of curves and elevation changes. And just where the ideal c-channel location , there is a ventilation duct, right underneath..so a very shallow driver is required. There is also the option of creating a pod that will stick out like a hairy mole ...but that's not going to happen.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

love your profile pic trevordj


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

audio+civic said:


> love your profile pic trevordj


GET A ROOM!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Meh, rooms are overrated!!!!


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

amitaF said:


> The civ's dash poses a particular challenge for c-channel installation. Alot of curves and elevation changes. And just where the ideal c-channel location , there is a ventilation duct, right underneath..so a very shallow driver is required. There is also the option of creating a pod that will stick out like a hairy mole ...but that's not going to happen.


Ha ha ha! Hilarious gif, I love it! You can always go the route of doing a little surgery and re-working of the vent duct. Thats what I had to do in my car and it worked out without any adverse effects. 

I definitely hear you though. There has to be a compromise between aesthetics and installation. I have been bitching about what I refer to as "tumor installations" for some time now. Solid installs but with no regard to the original design of the car. NO TUMORS!



audio+civic said:


> love your profile pic trevordj


Thanks friend! Don't mind Amita, he has gotten grouchy in his senior years :laugh:


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

trevordj said:


> Thanks friend! Don't mind Amita, he has gotten grouchy in his senior years :laugh:


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

Is amitaf this old??


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)




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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

screw y'all


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## piston (Apr 7, 2007)

how much did you have to lift the floor to be able to leave the spare tire in.

JK


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

From 1/2'' at the rear to 1'' behind the seats. These measurements are taken from the underside of the false floor. It gives me 3/16'' clearance between the spare tire and my Lrx5.1k


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

The front desk had a little package for me, this morning

This driver is tiny! I have a feeling i will be picking another one up, real soon
I cannot wait to test it , this w-end.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I finally had a few minutes to play with the TangBand W4 driver and the results were very promising, although, I found that the bottom end output was far from impressive[as expected]. Overall this driver is surprisingly great sounding, but just needs a little eq'ing on the top end to smooth it out. The off axis response of the driver is phenomenal, I will need ,IMO,to add in a low frequency driver into the equation.


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## go!tc (May 15, 2010)

install looks great, I like how you hide all the amps I was looking to do something similar in my hatch.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

hey , thanx man!^^^


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

After discussing the matter with Trevordj, and reading other people's experience with their center channel set-ups, I decided to incorporate a 6.5'' woofer into my console, to compliment the T-band W4 that will be mounted on my dash.

Here is a picture of a 6.5'' driver just sitting in the center console's pocket. As you can see, I will not have any difficulties making it fit in that area. My initial idea is to mold the existing plastic pocket, which has been removed, and turn it into a f-g enclosure that will be mounted to metal brackets to isolate it from the plastic console. Then fab a grill that matches the rectangular opening , right behind my shifter.

I haven't quite decided on a particular driver, yet... But the morels have a greater chance of winding up in my bookshelf speaker project,than as a center channel woofer.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Sep 15, 2010)

Love the trunk great work

I've been over and over my setup design trying to get the most space left. I just dont think I can go IB without hearing one 1st as I'm more of a bass head. Anyone know how many DB's a typical IB setup (2x15's) puts out?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

It's been a while, but I had too much stuff on my plate, to take care of at home. So here we go again!

As I stated a few months ago, I figured a way to fit a 165mm mid-bass into my center console.
I was hoping to get a HAT clarus 6 mid in there , but it will not fit (too much junk in da trunk) the way I wanted it to.(not saying it is impossible, just not worth the effort)....so I used one of my morel elates 6 instead. 

The driver is mounted to a .25" plywood baffle that is attached to the trim piece, using screws and bondo glass. The trim was perforated and thoroughly abraded to ensure the best bond possible. Once this was done, I trimmed a 5.25" grill to fit, covered it with clear box-tape and filled in the surrounding area with bondo glass. Bondo glass does not adhere to the tape, much, so once the reaction started solidifying the resin, I popped the grill out and had a perfect fit. 

Next step...make it look purdy


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

special thanx to member basshead for a free set of grills for my rear deck speakers


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

noooooooowwwwwwwiiicccccccccccceeeeeeeeee!!!!!!! Bout time you made some progress! Nice to see you back!! Maybe you can kick me along to get mine going. I swear something is always coming up!


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## jlh2003 (Dec 14, 2010)

looks awesome bro

Love the way you mounted the amps all while keeping all your trunk space and spare tire!!

gives me some ideas for my built and how to hide amps!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> noooooooowwwwwwwiiicccccccccccceeeeeeeeee!!!!!!! Bout time you made some progress! Nice to see you back!! Maybe you can kick me along to get mine going. I swear something is always coming up!


it looks much better with a coat of primer
it had a few pinholes, so i patched em up wih glazing putty. you will soon see a finished piece.

i also put in a layer of deadener, on the insides of the console. this was my first time using damplifer pro instead of dynamat extreme....i like it


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

today i stripped my pillers and removed the tweeter pods, to get ready to build dash pods to house my tweets and mids.

i also carved out my dash trim piece to accept an Audison VRAK (sub-level control knob)


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## MaXaZoR (Apr 1, 2007)

Nice, let me know how you like that center channel. I had similar idea but thought it would be mounted too low.


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## basshead (Sep 12, 2008)

Wow keep it up! You might have working a system before me


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

basshead said:


> Wow keep it up! You might have working a system before me


thats the game plan....plus i need to get all this stuff installed to make room for your new vehicle to fit in my tiny garage


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

MaXaZoR said:


> Nice, let me know how you like that center channel. I had similar idea but thought it would be mounted too low.


I agree with the driver being low, but having it limited to mid-bass duties and a full range driver sitting on the dash, things should work-out fine.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Not much to report progres-wise, but I have been keeping the router busy making 6.5" to 5.25" reducer rings for the rearfill, center channel ring, and i have been plowing away at my driver side speaker pod.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

looking good.
any reason why you chose to mount the drivers in the pillar that way?


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Woohoo! Progress!!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> looking good.
> any reason why you chose to mount the drivers in the pillar that way?


Having fiddled with my baffle, every which way imaginable(a smaller mid would of made it simpler IMO), I figured this to be a compromise between, off axis (dealing with the driver's side instrument cluster bump) and full on axis (which I was trying to avoid). The baffle is aimed, just a few inches in front of the dome-light.

Thoughts?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

:


scooter99 said:


> Woohoo! Progress!!


yes....slow, cause it has been hovering around minus 20 outside

that makes the garage a lil harder to keep warm


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

GET A SEDAN!!!! oke: Shoot -20? That's a heat wave for you isn't it!?!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> GET A SEDAN!!!! oke: Shoot -20? That's a heat wave for you isn't it!?!


HAHAHA... I'd love to see how your texar-cali ass would fare with it


----------



## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Yea I don't do cold weather! I used to, 30 lbs ago, now it seems like I get cold waaaayyy easier then I used to. I can't even give my wife **** anymore about always being under a blanket. I'm usually under one myself now!

Hey, did you ever get that alternator in?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Hey, did you ever get that alternator in?


 nope..i may attempt doing it,this week while my bud is changing my front wheel bearings. his garage is warmer and bigger than mine


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Sweet! Let me know how it goes!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

While my car was away, having the wheel bearings replaced, I wasn't able to do much. But here are a few pics of the 2nd pillar pod in the rough. They still need a layer of Bondo gold to smooth em out and fill in a few low spots.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Noice!!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

A couple of pics, driver side, pre-upholstry...
This side is a lil touchy(spent a couple hours getting it right), since the dash board has a bump, right underneath the mid....the other side is a cake walk in comparison. The area that needed to be relieved is circled in red.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Yea that's one of the things I"m wondering about myself. Nice job though. Why do you r pillars look so different than mine or Erin's? I thought you had a sedan? You do don't you? They just look different.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Coupes are the only way to roll, mang
....But I'd luv to have pillers like in the sedan, for obvious reasons:worried:


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Yea I'm an idiot! I just remembered your thread name! Dumb, me! Yeah they're gonna be pretty nice to work with that big window void! Well, nice work! NOW GET EM COVERED!!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

To keep the pods from bieng too visible through the windsheild, i will give them a textured black finish, on the backside and medium gray vinyl on the visible side. I like the look of speaker grill fabric, but they attracted dirt like swiffer dusters.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Swiffer dusters! HA you're a funny guy! That sounds good. That should look great. I know for mine instead of trying to blacken the window from the inside, I'm just going to cf vinyl or black vinyl the outside. It'll flow then with the rest of the car.


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## mach_y (Sep 8, 2006)

First off, LOVE the install. Great work.

Have a question on the trunk rack as I am considering doing something similiar with a hinged false floor. What keeps the hinged rack parts from bouncing up when driving over say a pothole?

Thanks


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

mach_y said:


> First off, LOVE the install. Great work.
> 
> Have a question on the trunk rack as I am considering doing something similiar with a hinged false floor. What keeps the hinged rack parts from bouncing up when driving over say a pothole?
> 
> Thanks


Friction between the carpet and frame members. I also made one trap, over-lap the other. I am starting to notice some noise, though....I'll be looking at a spring latch of some sort really soon.
I'll take some detailed pics.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

After experimenting with different texturing aerosols, I found the grain size I was looking for. I still haven't applied the final color to it, I am almost tempted to only satin clear coat it. Here are the before and after pics


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## jlh2003 (Dec 14, 2010)

i like super nice


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

jlh2003 said:


> i like super nice


Thanx man


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Yeah that looks pretty good man! Nice finish!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I forgot to mention that the upper portion of the pillar will be done with vinyl.
After thinking about it for a while, I decided against upholstering the speaker pod portion, for the simple reason, that it would be quite the challenge to get it right and not have the adhesive start failing once summer comes around.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Yeah that looks pretty good man! Nice finish!




Pillar #2 is not far behind

Once I've got 'em both done, I am whipping out the vinyl fabric


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## basshead (Sep 12, 2008)

amitaF said:


> I forgot to mention that the upper portion of the pillar will be done with vinyl.
> After thinking about it for a while, I decided against upholstering the speaker pod portion, for the simple reason, that it would be quite the challenge to get it right and not have the adhesive start failing once summer comes around.


^^^ Wise man!

Now ill have to copy you :laugh:


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

basshead said:


> ^^^ Wise man!
> 
> Now ill have to copy you :laugh:


no fkn way mang! I know where joo leeve









all kidding aside....this is what you'll need


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

I can't wait to see how you're gonna do the vinyl. How you gonna make it a good line between the two?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I'll skive the edge of the vinyl and fold it over


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Well I can't wait to see it! You're killin me! I'm so anxious to get mine worked on and here you are pluggin away! FACK!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

skiving will eliminate the lump(red arrow) that you see when vinyl is folded over.

I used blue vinyl for demo purposes only...cause I had a small quantity tucked away close...the actual color will be a dark med gray


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

just watched a video. Interesting. Like I said, can't wait to see you do it.

You're giving me ideas!


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## jlh2003 (Dec 14, 2010)

me too!


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

What the hell!?! You done yet? Where are the pictures!?!?!?! Some of us are sitting here patiently at work awaiting your progress!! oke:


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

lol........pod #2's texture coat is drying (extremely slow)
it will be painted late tonight.
I will begin upholstry on the first pod, right after dinner


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Ooookkkkkkkk!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Here ya go scooter


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Not the final grill..but somthing like it...black with a copper rim?

Thoughts?


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## jlh2003 (Dec 14, 2010)

wow omfg!!! awesome!

now i wanna see pics installed


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

hey ,thanx!
you and me both

skiving the vinyl manualy with a razor blade is a royal pain in the ass.

pod #2 is still drying


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Great work on the trunk area, and I really like the pods. I'm looking forward to seeing them installed, and looking forward to reading your impressions of the sound from the MS-8.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

thanx man.

stay tuned for the center channel dash pod build


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

amitaF said:


> Here ya go scooter





amitaF said:


> Not the final grill..but somthing like it...black with a copper rim?
> 
> Thoughts?


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW those turned out very noice!! If you could match the tweeter grill, I'd say go for that. But if the copper is gonna be tough to do, I'd say paint the lower grill black and call it good. Might be one of those less is more things. Either way, I'm thoroughly impressed my friend! Bravo, brav-freaking-o!!

I'm also anxious to see them in. Just because of how the look like they stick out quite a bit. But I have a feeling the pictures make that worse than it really is. Get em in, can't wait!!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> I'd say go for that. But if the copper is gonna be tough to do, I'd say paint the lower grill black and call it good. Might be one of those less is more things.
> 
> I'm also anxious to see them in. Just because of how the look like they stick out quite a bit. But I have a feeling the pictures make that worse than it really is. Get em in, can't wait!!


you might be right with the grill....i'll just have to get the HAT L4 se, then

the onlypart that is actuallyin the line of site, would be the tweeter portion and that only partially blocks the lower corner of the windscreen. it wouldn't even hide a state inspection sticker, if we had them. the midrange is ticked in tight and literally sits on the dashboard (,060air gap)


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Sweet. Well I can't wait to see it in. Are you working on it today? We gonna see some more progress pics?


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

I'm thinking I may not go on axis this time. When they were in before, they felt a little bit overwhelming straight on. I'm gonna try off axis for a bit before i build mine and see how that does. Although I think the only issue with that, is that damn gauge dash. But I'm running 3" mid range, and you're 4" right? I may have a little more room to play with it. I don't know.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

pod#2.......done twins bazzle, TWINS!









if it is not too cold, outside, i should be able to mount them and take a quick snapshot, so that you guys keep your panties on!


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> I'm thinking I may not go on axis this time. When they were in before, they felt a little bit overwhelming straight on. I'm gonna try off axis for a bit before i build mine and see how that does. Although I think the only issue with that, is that damn gauge dash. But I'm running 3" mid range, and you're 4" right? I may have a little more room to play with it. I don't know.


If I were you, I'd look at something like Erin did, since you both have the same rides and his set up sounded and staged, fantastic.

Yup..I'm sporting a 4 incher:blush:


----------



## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

amitaF said:


> If I were you, I'd look at something like Erin did, since you both have the same rides and his set up sounded and staged, fantastic.
> 
> Yup..I'm sporting a 4 incher:blush:


Yea I have his printed out and in my "book" to install. I guess maybe I just didn't have it tuned properly. I'll cross that road in a month or so I guess! 

Nice work, they look beautiful!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Here we go....

:blush:Apologies for the mess n dirty windows...it's just one of those days.

The red circled area shows how little the pods are seen throught the windscreen.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Wow those don't stick out nearly as far as I thought they would. Nice job man!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Wow those don't stick out nearly as far as I thought they would. Nice job man!


I've got somethin' unique, brewing in the shop right now:devil:...stay tuned


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Oh I'm always tuned! Can't wait to see it!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

still in the rough....but you get the idea


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Wow, thats ambitious!!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Wow, thats ambitious!!


I sense disapproval
It'll look purdy when I'm done


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Nah, not disapproval. Admiration. I'd never try it cause I don't know that I could blend it all that well. The materials on our dashes intimidate me. Don't know why, but they do. I'm in, can't wait to see it. I have no doubt you'll do good with it. What do you have going in there?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

a tang-band w4 1757sb full range

yeah..the materials can pose a challenge


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Well good luck. I'm gonna go help tend do my daughter. She's got something, 103 fever, throwing up. Gonna be a long night! Sigh!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Hey, go show that virus who's boss and make your daughter feel better!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Progress report

I started giving the pod it's general shape with bondo-glass and gave the inside an initial coating of bondo MILKSHAKE.
I highlighted the contour, to make it show better on camera


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Man you're getting a lot of work done. I'm jealous!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Today it was warm enough to test fit the modified instrument cluster trim and make the necessary cuts to provide clearence for the TB W4 full-range center, before hitting the pod with bondo.

The initial fit, only required me to cut off a nub (blue oval)that keeps the trim snugged up to the rest of the dash. I then traced the the baffle ring I.D. with a sharpie, onto the underlying obstacles, that prevented the driver from dropping in.
Although i was super careful, I managed to cut through(red arrows) the paper thin ducts that reside right below the plastic dash structure. Since the cuts were very narrow and short, a quick dab of hot melt, was used to re-seal the ducts. A generous layer of duct seal putty will cover that area to make sure i dont have sound resonating through my heating vents.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Bondo is done and I gave it a coat of high build primer, to fill in sanding marks and make most pin holes disappear. I'll let it dry over-night and rub it down, before applying texture coating.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

I'm impressed buddy! I have to admit I was a little skeptical on that one, but it turned out very nice! I can't wait to see it finished!


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## Chayse (Nov 23, 2010)

Looks good. Almost natural there. I'm sure that was the plan though.


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

I would have been willing to bet that nobody could sink a center in to a 8th gen Civic's dash and make it look good. Big ups to you...


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> I'm impressed buddy! I have to admit I was a little skeptical on that one, but it turned out very nice! I can't wait to see it finished!


:laugh:i knew it!
I have to admit....the pod looked like a tumor in the pictures...untill i primed it


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

rawdawg said:


> I would have been willing to bet that nobody could sink a center in to a 8th gen Civic's dash and make it look good. Big ups to you...





Chayse said:


> Looks good. Almost natural there. I'm sure that was the plan though.


thanx guys


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Yea it was a definite transformation. Great job. And when I say I can't wait to see it finished, I don't mean the same thing as everyone else around "saying get it done", although that's there too, I mean I want to see how it gets finished and what you use. It's weird, our dashes almost seem to have a vinyl covering on it. Maybe it does, but it's like grippy, or tacky. 

I wish I could change it out. I'd love to take th dash out and re finish it in black and charcoal.


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## jlh2003 (Dec 14, 2010)

this is turning out to be EPIC! amazing work!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> I wish I could change it out. I'd love to take th dash out and re finish it in black and charcoal.


you n me both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..actually sem dye will stick like a mofo on the vinyl padding and less on the hard poly-propylene plastic surfaces


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

jlh2003 said:


> this is turning out to be EPIC! amazing work!


i am glad you like it. if my wife did not frown on the result....it means it looks good(she is a tough one to please...decoratively speaking)


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Here is the finished product. The sheen vanished as the paint dried(paint was still tacky). I did not have charcoal grey on hand so i used satin black. I'll see if fits with the rest , if not I'll order some SEM grey


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Yea that looks sick! Nice job.


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## jlh2003 (Dec 14, 2010)

wow! awesome bro!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

thanx guys. weather permitting, i should have pics of it, installed, tomorrow


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Here it is installed on the dashboard...I dunno leave it black or charcoal grey?


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## jlh2003 (Dec 14, 2010)

looks pretty good black, but a few more better pics would help

do some black fabric on the doors and it will looks awesome!


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Ya know, in all honesty, I'd paint it whatever you're gonna do the dash pieces in (gauge and head unit pieces). Otherwise I think it stands out too much. Just a thought though.

Sorry edit: Looks great though otherwise. i'm impressed with how it turned out! Props man!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

my doors will have black on them for sure and my pillars have the bottom portion black, to keep them as stealth as possible. So i think the black will stay


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

That makes a difference then. I forgot about the pillars already. Why don't you texture spray it like you did the pillars? Or did you do that already?


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Ya know, in all honesty, I'd paint it whatever you're gonna do the dash pieces in (gauge and head unit pieces). Otherwise I think it stands out too much. Just a thought though.
> 
> Sorry edit: Looks great though otherwise. i'm impressed with how it turned out! Props man!


i totally agree...need more black surfaces


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> That makes a difference then. I forgot about the pillars already. Why don't you texture spray it like you did the pillars? Or did you do that already?


done already


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Atta boy! See I'm in total agreement. Why does the Si get the special black treatment! I want a black interior! DAMN THEM!!


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Atta boy! See I'm in total agreement. Why does the Si get the special black treatment! I want a black interior! DAMN THEM!!


BASTIDS!


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Actually it wouldn't be that hard to change out the interior, with exception of that damn dash. Don't know what to do with that. Other than just go black and charcoal two tone throughout the car. I guess that's my only fix for now. 

Besides I hear it's a pain in the ass to pull the dash anyway! So no go for me! 

What's next on the list big boy? You should be pretty close to done huh?


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Actually it wouldn't be that hard to change out the interior, with exception of that damn dash. Don't know what to do with that. Other than just go black and charcoal two tone throughout the car. I guess that's my only fix for now.
> 
> Besides I hear it's a pain in the ass to pull the dash anyway! So no go for me!
> 
> What's next on the list big boy? You should be pretty close to done huh?


dont gimme no ideers there , son....my wife would just shoot me,if i removed the dash


I have to grind off the pods, that contained the mids, that are on the door panels and make em look purdy.

Big boy?I see you,ve been chatting with my wife:laugh:


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Ha. Nope just sayin. You're getting major work done man. I'm very jealous! I got a tease from the UPS guy today. Came to my office building, took out a long box, and started walking toward our office door..........................right past it up stairs. Then he left! Thought it was my damper! DAMN HIM!!! Playin with my emotions like that!


----------



## MaXaZoR (Apr 1, 2007)

Well...it seems like I need to step up my game and install one of those center channels too


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

quick note...i only have 2.25" of depth in that area (from the top of the dash). if the driver you will be using,requires more...you will need to build up or butcher 2 ventilation ducts.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

My 2nd attempt at refinishing my center mid woofer baffle was a success!
I dunked the spray can in 120f water for 10 mins, shook it well and had a nice fine mist .

The key switch is a valet key that turns off the whole system.


----------



## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

I don't get it. What were you attempting. Looks good, but I'm not sure what you were doing. Explain for us lame people please!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

my c-channel has 2 drivers..one full-range on the dash and on mid-woofer in the console, 'cause there is no way i could of done a 165mm driver on the dash...and make it look factory


----------



## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

amitaF said:


> my c-channel has 2 drivers..one full-range on the dash and on mid-woofer in the console, 'cause there is no way i could of done a 165mm driver on the dash...and make it look factory


I'm sorry I get "what" you're doing for the center channel, I don't get what you did with the water and mist. Were you trying to texture it or what was that for?


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

ok...lol... i had painted the thing already with so-so results. Flat black shows any imperfections and shade variences, unless the underneath is wet sanded with 400 grit and then i heated the paint in hot water to about 90-100 degrees to make sure it mists properly. several thin passes gave me the finish i needed (oem dull black plastic) krylon flat black is the closest...fyi


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> I don't get it. What were you attempting. Looks good, but I'm not sure what you were doing. Explain for us lame people please!


i just went back and re-read the post....duh...no wonder no one got it:blush:


----------



## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

It's all good. Makes sense now. It looks good.


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I fabbed a pair of grills for the L4,s. I felt like making them a bit fancy and added a trim ring that i recycled from the grill I used in my shifter console. Now... do I leave it silver or do I spray it with copper color?


----------



## jlh2003 (Dec 14, 2010)

looking good as always

check my latest update


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

amitaF said:


> I fabbed a pair of grills for the L4,s. I felt like making them a bit fancy and added a trim ring that i recycled from the grill I used in my shifter console. Now... do I leave it silver or do I spray it with copper color?


That's a great question. I'd go with copper if you can get it to match, otherwise it may not look right.


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I was feeling under the weather today, so all I got done was a slightly altered layout plan.
I scored a set of HAT L2x cross-overs to run my piller pods off of a single amp, instead of 2.
This gives me the ability to bridge my us-acoustics amp to take advantage of the internal x-overs. Each center driver will have it's own amp, to avoid having to build a one-off passive x-over.


----------



## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

How's it going today man? Feeling equal to the weather today?


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

getting there.... i still feel like i'm wearing kryptonite underwear.
I worked on my rear-fill and hit a roadblock,when the new grills i fastened to the trim panel, hit the glass and prevented me from getting the panel to engage into the clips.
So....I chucked the trim rings into the trash bin and cut slits around the perimiter of the grill portion that engages the plastic ring. I folded them over, to double up the edge and give the grill some body. Gave it a layer of grill cloth and I will fasten them using hotmelt, from the underside.


----------



## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Nice. Nice recovery.


----------



## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Is that a Quart grill? Are you saying that after you added the cloth
it wouldn't fit down into the gap in the ring?


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Is that a Quart grill? Are you saying that after you added the cloth
> it wouldn't fit down into the gap in the ring?


The interference I was having was the 1/2" in height, that the grill had. It was hitting the back-glass and preventing the trim from going all the way back in. It's really tight back there


----------



## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

amitaF said:


> It's really tight back there



Thats what she said


The reason for my question is because I have both 4's and 8's
that use the same grill. I was thinking about adding cloth to 
them to keep dirt and dust out of the speaker. 


I wish I could find the grill material that Sony used 'back in the day' 
with the ole ES speakers. That was some of the nicest looking stuff
ever. really transparent too.


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Thats what she said
> 
> 
> The reason for my question is because I have both 4's and 8's
> ...


I could see this being a challenge with some brands. Worst case I'd resin the fabric (edge) to the grill and feather edge it, to facilitate insertion


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I have been working on ridding my doors of the mid-range pods and re-finnishing them to make them look decent.
I still need to fab a decorative speaker grill frame and stretch grill cloth, over it, to hide the h-d grill that protects the mid-bass driver.
Before and after pics


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

That looks very clean my man! Can you take a better picture of the after? It seems a little dark to see all the detail. But from what I can see it looks very well done.


----------



## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

BTW, you left out the Arc Audio in your signature picture!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> BTW, you left out the Arc Audio in your signature picture!


true...thanx man!

btw... if i used flash for the pic..it looked kinda weird probably the shimmer in the charcoal paint


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

amitaF said:


> true...thanx man!
> 
> btw... if i used flash for the pic..it looked kinda weird probably the shimmer in the charcoal paint


Well then, I guess you'll just have to send them both to me so I can see them first hand. I promise I'll get right on sending them back to you! 

I wonder, speaking of that, if the Si Sedan door panel will fit on the Ex? I never thought to look into that. I'll have to ask the boyz over at the 8th.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Ah shoot, it wouldn't fit anyway, your's is a coupe! Damn you!


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Ah shoot, it wouldn't fit anyway, your's is a coupe! Damn you!



you re looking for the color or the work on the midbass?


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

No I was confused I guess. I just found out anyway. I thought that the Si sedan door panel had the handle that extends up like what yours does. I love that look but I guess it's a coupe thing. 

I may just get creative and make one! 

The door panel I have is all hacked up anyway, so I'll just use that! I can, and will, change the colors on it.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I wasn't really happy with how the first grills fit on my pods. That and the fact that the copper trim on my tweeters could possibly attract the attention of would be "teefs" as folks around here would say. So I covered them up like the taliban want their women.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Also fabbed the mid-bass beauty grill covers. What looks like flat vs. glossy on the door panel is something that is visually, not there...the camera does not seem to like the shimmer, when I use flash to take pics.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Nice work on the doors. I like them alot. Very well done! Not sure about that grill cover on the apillars but I understand your dilemma. I thought it looked better detailed before. But none the less, glad to see you're able to make some progress with your ride. It's lookin good!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

i prefer the individual grill or even better...no grills at all, but i need to be able to park with my mind at ease


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

I can understand that for sure. I went to the gym last week after having my wheels changed out, and all I could do was worry about my car. I gotta get that better alarm put in FAST!!!


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## jlh2003 (Dec 14, 2010)

Thats funny scooter that's the next item on my todo list is a badass alarm..

I think I'm going with the clifford 5702 alarm and remote start with the smartstart iphone app


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

The weather has finally cooperated, so I got the passenger side buttoned up, today. Honda still has not come through with the replacement sail panels, yet but I was promised that they would be here "mañana". The inner door handle(light gray) is begging for some faux carbon


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Man that looks spectacular! 

How much CF do you need? I'm about to do a trunk cover this weekend and I may have some scrap left over. If you can give me some measurements I may be able to send them to you if it's enough for you.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

shweet!


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

My gift to you my friend, if I have enough for you to use. You've done more than enough for me! 

I'm so impressed, BTW, at how things have turned out! You've done a great job on your ride! You make me want to work on mine more! I'm already chompin at the bit, waiting for the weekend to roll through. Friday night mini meet, then come Saturday, the headlight retros, and fog light retros get started baby!!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

well it is mission accomplished with the new style pillar grills...it makes everything 95% invisible!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> My gift to you my friend, if I have enough for you to use. You've done more than enough for me!
> 
> I'm so impressed, BTW, at how things have turned out! You've done a great job on your ride! You make me want to work on mine more! I'm already chompin at the bit, waiting for the weekend to roll through. Friday night mini meet, then come Saturday, the headlight retros, and fog light retros get started baby!!


plz post some pics i cant seem to muster up the courage to mess with my headlights


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> My gift to you my friend, if I have enough for you to use.


I really appreciate the gesture,bro


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Yea I'll get some pics up for sure. The one's I've got are pretty much plug and play. Except the fact you still have to take the headlight lens apart, but there isn't any cutting like other retros. The Projector screws right into the OEM hole. Then it's some adjusting and putting the lens back together. Listen to me being confident knowing damn well I'm scared as hell to do it! LMAO!


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## blueatlanta (Feb 10, 2011)

like what everyone else said. bangin job on the door cards mate, theyre tits.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

thanx, man!..i luv tits


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Ahhh yes, tits are nice aren't they!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Ahhh yes, tits are nice aren't they!


 Don't git me started!!!!!!!!!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Another quick update

Did a final assembly before wet sanding and paint. I ****ed around for three hours to make sure every piece was centered,gapped and had all the required mounting screws aligned and secured. My previous metra dash kit creaked and squeaked and drove me nuts. I went back to the (highly modified) oem radio mounting bracket, to make sure that everything will be secure and be harder to steal.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

That looks noice!!!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

thanx...the ms-8 display has no-where near the euro-sexiness of the audison drc. both the display and bass knob will get some faux carbon treatment


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Can't wait to see it!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Color matched to Alpine's shade of Pewter

It now makes the display and knob , stick out like sore thumbs


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

This integration is damn near flawless! I may have gone the opposite
route, in that I would have made the rings and trim of the audio match
the dash. Mostly because you had so little area for someone to paint
scan and match. Due to that, it seems as if the JBL piece silver is a
shade or two off of the MS-8. Then again this could all be the camera
making it look this way.

ALL PERSONAL PREF, SURELY... Again, I think the molding of the
part is spot on. All the prep for paint and going the extra mile really did
make it factory in appearance...

GOOD JOB!


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Man, huge props for that! I think you're dead wrong, unless it's the camera shot, the knob doesn't stick out at all. I stared at it even and it blends well as far as I can see. I'm so very impressed! Nice job! Flawless is the perfect word for this!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I took the plunge and color matched the display and what a difference it makes! 
Next step...the knob!


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

^ win!

I like it, man. I actually just ordered the scosche kit because I dno't have the time to finish my dash up and it looks like junk. Hopefully I'll get some more free time this summer to get 'er dun! 
Having said that, your final picture above makes me want to finish mine up and paint my pioneer trim piece to match as well.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

The impact isn't as dramatic, but still an improvement

Thanx Erin


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I slapped in the lower gage pod trim, because I had to cross the N-Y/Quebec border, yesterday and whoa...the pewter contrasting against the black, dash/speedo trim.... the effect was stunning.
(border guards tend to think "stolen vehicle" when a car has missing dash parts)
I'll try to snap a pic if the rain stops falling


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I've been busy working on a customer's car and my build has been slow to a grind...again. 

Today I test fitted my relocated climate controls. It fit well and I drove around to see how it reacted to bumps and potholes that plague our streets in spring.
WIN!!

Where I have failure is:

- Interference when I plug in the new power outlets,that I built into the new pod, in the oem dash mounted outlet(easy fix)

- The rear defroster button sticks due to insufficient clearance (typical Metra lousy fitment)

-I noticed a sink mark in the paint, right beside the temp control knob.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

How is it mounted, you may wonder.

I used 3 hidden "x-mas tree fasteners" across the top portion and 2 screws near the bottom of the pod, where they can only be seen from a roach crawling on the carpet.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

It looks sweet man! JUST GET THAT DAMN PIN HOLE FIXED, it sticks out like a sore thumb! oke:

How close is the shifting? Any issues with hands hitting or anything? Really does look good man!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

no shifter issues at all ...2.5" of clearance in first gear


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Sweet!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I finally got a break from customer work and was treated to a semi-sunny day.
I made a battery tray out of 3/4" angle iron for the kinetic 1800 (monster) batt.
I designed the tray to be able to re-use the oem batt ty-down rods, with a sturdier and much wider top strap.
The oem tray was shaved flat to accomodate the bigger tray. Once welded in place, I gave it a generous coating of rubberized undercoating.
The bottom of the tray was lined with rubber from a sacraficial "welcome" mat.

Since I am replacing the oem :blush:70amp:blush: alt with a 220amp unit, I performed "le big tree" .... beefed up the batt ground to 1/0 and ran 2 x 2gauge lines, going from the alt to the battery. The + side of the alt will be fused, just in case. So right now , I'm short a single inline fuse holder.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

amitaF said:


> I took the plunge and color matched the display and what a difference it makes!
> Next step...the knob!


EXACTLY, what I was talking about in my above post! Now it 
looks like the part is supposed to be where you have it. WELL
DONE! 

It really does make all the diff in the world!


I am wondering something though. Is something behind the knob and the JBL display?
What I'm getting at is; YOU did SOOOO much work on this part if you just had a knob
with its decal above it. That I think along with only having the display and not its trim
ring is the ONLY thing that could make this part better.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Thanx fly!


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Nice! Hey that stuff looks awfully familiar! :laugh: I sent you a pm regarding the fuse holder btw. I won't say anything about the filthy engine bay, I'm sure you already know about that!  But my.02, Gunk Foamy Engine Bright, followed up with Gunk Citrus Engine Shine are amazing!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

yeah..i was gonna ask you about that, real soon....


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

hell yeah, all that stuff has been provided by scooter's famous fire sales


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

I'll go look now!


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Sorry man, looks like I can't help with this one. I have exactly how many I need for my build.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

it's all good, man...i've raped you enough, everytime you've changed stuff around:laugh:


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Well it helps us both in the long run. At least I know it's all going to a good home!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I've been busy working on my own ride for a change and finished all my trunk terminations, hook-ups, ect....even got the amplifier cooling fans hooked up. I had some LED strips, that I had scored for free with my autozone points, so I used them as trunk lighting (I don't care if you dis-approve, Louie)

Got the video amplifier box and GPS unit mounted, under the driver's seat (stole the idea from scooter's thread)

And finally, today, I installed the H-U/display, in the dashboard, but got interrupted by a phone call from a head-hunter.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Looks really good man! I love the way it finished out with the HVAC controls down there.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Thanx mate!


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## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

thats really impressive. nice integration of the radio and dvd player into the dash. The A pillars look pretty good, only thing i noticed was the two screws that stand out. Great job!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

MTopper said:


> thats really impressive. nice integration of the radio and dvd player into the dash. The A pillars look pretty good, only thing i noticed was the two screws that stand out. Great job!


Thank you ,sir
The camera makes them look worst than in reality. But these grills are on a list of things to get re-done


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

I have a huge project I'm working on right now. I have this and a couple other little projects to finish and I'll be starting audio baby!


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## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

i wasn't by any means saying i could do better fyi. wish i had the skills you have. i know it takes practice but, it also take the cojones to rip apart my dash and mold in something that was never thought to be installed in the first place


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

MTopper said:


> i wasn't by any means saying i could do better fyi. wish i had the skills you have. i know it takes practice but, it also take the cojones to rip apart my dash and mold in something that was never thought to be installed in the first place


 I took it as a compliment, no worries


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

After 2 years of being on team NO SOUND....I have successfully got the system going.
And it sounds really good.
The ms-8 requires some doodling to get it to sound right. I was getting frustrated at first, I have to admit, but I started seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
I still need to install my center console, that houses the c-channel mid-bass driver, but the little tangband W4(crossed at 400hz) that is firing up into the windsheild is doing a great job, locking in the image, dead center.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Wooohoooo! Yea that's gonna be me with the Bit One I'm sure. I'm gonna have to learn on the fly! Nice job man! Now get that center console in so you can get it finished for a month and start all over again! :laugh:


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Naw man...this might be a keeper.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Congratulations! I hope I can get to that point soon. I downloaded Room EQ Wizard and it wouldn't recognize my mic through my M-Audio interface. 2 other programs recognized it just fine. It uses the M-audio piece for sound output which works fine. I posted a message on the REW forum and the author said that Apple "broke" Java and that was why...so I just had to download the Windows version so I can attempt to get some kind of tune on my car. Right now not happy with the sound. Wish the BitOne had auto tune. 

Of course, I've gotten sidetracked with a basic low-buck build for my daily...

Jay


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

amitaF said:


> Naw man...this might be a keeper.


Yea, talk to me in a month or two when you start your new thread! oke:


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Maybe, once I dig myself outta this unemployment hole.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Well yea I guess that's more important isn't it!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

there is light at the end of the tunnel, no worries bro epper:epper:epper:epper:


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Great, glad to hear it!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

amitaF said:


> Naw man...this might be a keeper.


I may have spoke too soon.....I'm going tweeterless.

While fudging around with the system, I realized that there was no benefit to me running a tweeter. I cannot hear much above 16khz

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/classifieds/104911-f-s-hybrid-audio-l1prose-l2x-cross-overs.html


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

SEE!! :laugh:


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> SEE!! :laugh:


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Ok you win! That's sh!t's funny!


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Hey man, you doing work on this thing or what!?! Almost 2 months since the last post! What up!?!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

gitin lazy, aint I...

Got some goodies commin' in the mail, stay tuned


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Awww, buddy, I'm always tuned in!!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Today I went to the H-depot to pick-up some ABS drain-pipe, to start building some new pods for the pair of A-P XR3M-le , that I scored off of Bikin (Erin).
We had a postal strike that lasted a a few weeks, so I have yet to receive the said drivers (damned overpaid cry-babies)

I used 3" ABS union (3.5" i.d.) and cemented a 1-1/4" coupling on top for the Hertz ml-28 tweeter(yes it is back).

On one baffle, I used ABS cement with ABS shavings dissolved in the cement, to use as a high-build slurry. I could see this being used as a crack filler or to repair motorcycle fairings, but I do not recommend it for pod building...'cause it is slow as **** to harden...FAIL!. 

The one pictured here was re-enforced with kitty-hair(still in rough stage)... and that set in just 20 mins.....PASS!

I still need to fab some rings to mount the mids into the pipe.
The neat thing, about these, is that I will be able to use a slice of 3" pipe to make grill rings, for these.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

that's a cool idea! 

sucks you still haven't gotten the mids.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> that's a cool idea!
> 
> sucks you still haven't gotten the mids.


THANX!

o: Tell me about it.... a Mini dsp board is also MIA, for the same reason.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Nice! See if you just live in the states you wouldn't have that problem! Lol. Keep it up.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

cali sounds nice...got an extra room?:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

amitaF said:


> On one baffle, I used ABS cement with ABS shavings dissolved in the cement, to use as a high-build slurry. I could see this being used as a crack filler or to repair motorcycle fairings, but I do not recommend it for pod building...'cause it is slow as **** to harden...FAIL!.



 12 hrs later.... The ABS putty is still...putty! Most of it has gelled, but the center is still very soft. So enter PLAN B> Scrape off as much as I can, let the surfaces harden and drill holes + kitty hair


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## ibanzil (Jun 29, 2008)

The pods look about the size and shape as my krx3 mid/tweet pods that come with them. IDE say you shOuld try those, they even have a nice grill. I have the set sitting around, if you wanna see if it would work I could mail a pod out to you.


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## ibanzil (Jun 29, 2008)

Could send both pods with speakers still in them and turn you into a focal man! Lol. The tweeter in that set makes some my ears happy.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Thanx for the offer, man...but fabrication is half the fun!

BTW> those Hertz ML28 tweeters have a sweet spot in my heart, I always regretted selling my first pair.


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## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

Cracking install, sub'd for future goodness ! 

Any idea what frequency you're going to cross the mids/tweets over at ?

I'm asking because i'm looking to do some thing similar with some Trinity w/b mids and Dyn Md102 tweets.

Thanks


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I'll probably be crossing them in the 8 to 10k range. The tweeters are just there to add top end sparkle. Since I only have a single pair of outputs to the mid/tweet combo, I"ll be trying out a minidsp as a fully adjustable active x-over


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## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

Cool, i was thinking along those lines. 

Thanks for sharing


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## lostdaytomorrow (Jan 26, 2007)

amitaF said:


> I've been busy working on my own ride for a change and finished all my trunk terminations, hook-ups, ect....even got the amplifier cooling fans hooked up. I had some LED strips, that I had scored for free with my autozone points, so I used them as trunk lighting (I don't care if you dis-approve, Louie)
> 
> Got the video amplifier box and GPS unit mounted, under the driver's seat (stole the idea from scooter's thread)
> 
> And finally, today, I installed the H-U/display, in the dashboard, but got interrupted by a phone call from a head-hunter.


Holy **** man! That is some awesome work!!!! Sweet build man!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

7 days after the postal service was forced back to work....there is some progress with my midrange drivers
Customs Clearance, July 04, 2011, 8:18 am, CANADA


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## SiR_Dave (Mar 21, 2008)

Good stuff here!! your giving me some great Ideas for my build !!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

SiR_Dave said:


> Good stuff here!! your giving me some great Ideas for my build !!


Make sure to post your build's progress


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I made a lil' detour via the Post oRiFiCe today....everything is finally here! epper:
Mini dsp in its own little project enclosure and a pair of Audible Physics XR3M-le.
I am thrilled that they fit so well, in my abs pipe pods This will make it easy to shape and integrate into the pillars. 

I will be trying them out tweeter-less, pointed at the dome light, this week-end in the existing pods to see if they please my ears


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

WTF! Why wait till the weekend. You give us this and say wait till the weekend! I CALL FOUL FOUL FOUL!!! Just kidding! I'm anxious to work on mine this weekend too! Just not going to be able to show any pictures of it!


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Ok....This morning, I had the chance to swap out my california sun-faded Hybrid L4v1 with the set of Audible Physics XR3M-le that I purchased from Bikinpunk.
First impression is the feel of physical robustness, from holding substantial mass in a such compact package. Once the drivers were fastened to the existing pods, I was so anxious to give them a listen, that I did not even bother re-tuning the sound.

Right from the get go, the image was dead center compared to, somewhere between center and straight ahead of the driver's seat with the Hybrids. The image also moved forward by about 2 feet.(remember, no tuning was done)
There is a slight noticeable loss of output vs the L4, spl-wise, but this lil' beast of a driver took to the extra "eye-talion" watts, required to make up for the slight loss of output, w/o a whimper. 
The overall sound became livelier, more revealing and even though the L4 is no slouch, the details in the music were crisper, the highs were much more natural sounding on some tracks that the L4 struggled with. 
Tweeter-less, they are incredibly impressive!
Not trying to knock the L4, but it sounds, a tad, dull in comparison.... I have not heard the L4se yet, but I'm sure Scott did a great job at improving the L4.

More to come...


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Update> These A-P widebanders made me fall in love with Sade, again! On some tracks I could faintly hear the valves of the wind instruments and I heard some subtleties in the recording that I have never noticed before and the vocal reproduction is incredible!

Not a complaint, but ... I noticed that it is hard to listen to poorly recorded material, with these drivers. I tried Linkin Park's "Hybrid Theory" and I immediately ejected it...even if it is in my top 100 albums, content-wise. I'll have to save that album for the work shop stereo.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

As my stereo gets better, I find it hard to listen to poorly recorded music too. The problem is, I listen to mainly Hard Rock and Metal and for the most part, it's all recorded poorly or recorded well, but with a lot of compression and no dynamic range. Doh, stupid hobby! 

Jay


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

JayinMI said:


> As my stereo gets better, I find it hard to listen to poorly recorded music too. The problem is, I listen to mainly Hard Rock and Metal and for the most part, it's all recorded poorly or recorded well, but with a lot of compression and no dynamic range. Doh, stupid hobby!
> 
> Jay


:blush:same here


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Before you see it on WIKI LEAKS....

Going totally DIY with my driver selection for 2012, except for the morel elate6...it will remain as my c-channel woofer, mainly because of it's compactness/output

Processing will still be provided by the JBL ms-8, amplification might change a little bit.


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

Boy, the XR's didn't last long! 

Have you listened to the Peerless mids, or just itching for a change?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

I initially bought 2 for rear-fill duty, and while playing around with them, I mated them with different tweeters and liked what I heard...so I bought 3 more.

I loved my xr3m drivers...I would go back to A-P if they came out with a xr4m


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Ohhhhh dayum! Here we go!


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## Prime mova (Aug 17, 2011)

Gr8 to see the integration of the jbl ms8 into the system. I'm looking to add this processor to the next car that I buy.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

scooter99 said:


> Ohhhhh dayum! Here we go!


I always wondered what you two had in common....:laugh:


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

trojan fan said:


> I always wondered what you two had in common....:laugh:


Sad little man...


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

amitaF said:


> I initially bought 2 for rear-fill duty, and while playing around with them, I mated them with different tweeters and liked what I heard...so I bought 3 more.
> 
> I loved my xr3m drivers...I would go back to A-P if they came out with a xr4m


Mark has an XSoul4 that Erin just Klippel tested


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

bertholomey said:


> Mark has an XSoul4 that Erin just Klippel tested


Yes I did see those, but I am waiting/wishing for a 4-4.5 inch version that will cause ripples in "the matrix", like the xr3m did.


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

amitaF said:


> Sad little man...


Ya, banned off one site, kicked off a thread on here, I'm betting he's been licking his chops waiting for when I pop into another thread so he can chime in with his little worthlessness. I guess it's your turn to put up with him. :laugh:


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Ya, banned off one site, kicked off a thread on here, I'm betting he's been licking his chops waiting for when I pop into another thread so he can chime in with his little worthlessness. I guess it's your turn to put up with him. :laugh:


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