# P99 o new model?



## jcmorong (Sep 7, 2009)

Anyone know about the future of Pionner P99 or Its next successor?


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Not likely to be a successor. DSPs are the future, there was a very small market for the P99 in the first place, with modern vehicles the demand is even lower. I wouldn't expect anything else like the P99 to be made.


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## jcmorong (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes I know, but no one dsp you can tune it as easy as with a remote control, for example
just a few has a function like auto tune, auto eq ... It´s tedious to always have a laptop to adjust, may be more things like alpine rux or arc could be an easy solution


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

jcmorong said:


> Yes I know, but no one dsp you can tune it as easy as with a remote control, for example
> just a few has a function like auto tune, auto eq ... It´s tedious to always have a laptop to adjust, may be more things like alpine rux or arc could be an easy solution


Oh I understand, I just think it's HIGHLY unlikely that we'll see anything like it. How long has it been on the market, a decade? I suspect it's the last of it's kind.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

i just got back from a pioneer product training.. wish i saw this before hand. could have asked :/


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

I would kill for successor to the P99RS to come out.... had mine for 6 years and still going strong....but it definitely needs love in the processing department as compared to
offerings of today....


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Why would you want another P99? A IPhone and a Helix DSP Pro would be better ... and DAP with HiRes capabilities would be even better for under $600 BNIB and you can use that DAP in all your cars...

CDs are dead... 

I doubt Pioneer or anyone make another F1 status or ODR setup - advances in DSP's is where the business is...

Even that will hit a wall soon - car manufacturers are purposely building systems in cars for the purpose of not being tampered with.. 

Guys like Mobridge are not moving with the times as the latest cars are coming out with canbus variants that Mobridge and the likes will most probably never been given the license to use do to cost and the unwillingness of the manufacturer to allow aftermarket devices to mess with there cars...

In the past the radio was just controlled via the steering wheel and and dash - today it controls the AC Alarm and in same cases you remove the HU and the car won't start. 

The car manufacturer wants you to buy into There upgrade system B&O , Harman Kardan etc... 

We will soon only be able to work on cars upto a certain year after that it would be impossible - only solution is running a parallel system to the OEM system. 

At that point your probably just leave the OEM system and do home audio instead. 


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## 26062 (Jul 5, 2009)

Elektra said:


> Why would you want another P99? A IPhone and a Helix DSP Pro would be better ... and DAP with HiRes capabilities would be even better for under $600 BNIB and you can use that DAP in all your cars...
> 
> CDs are dead...
> 
> ...


So you're saying all the major Companies will shut down I guess. Rockford fosgate,Alpine,Pioneer,Clarion..etc,etc? I doubt it.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I mean the RSX-GS9 came out pretty recently. So i wouldnt say single din SQ units are totally dead. 

Flac/dsd playability is still needed and not really easily remedied with a phone short of tablet.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

dede11 said:


> So you're saying all the major Companies will shut down I guess. Rockford fosgate,Alpine,Pioneer,Clarion..etc,etc? I doubt it.




Not saying that... I am saying it's going to get progressively harder to install a aftermarket system in newer higher end cars going forward

There will always be a car audio market as there are many cars world wide that still use traditional HUs but in years to come it will be harder...

For example most optical OEM systems are getting very hard to splice into... even aftermarket companies like Audiotec Fischer don't offer solutions for those cars I.e. Logic 7 and the likes

If I am wrong why hasn't there been a new F1 HU or ODR system? The Sony can be installed in the trunk or glove compartment - you don't need access to the face on that type of unit...

Unless car makers release there software to the aftermarket arena at a reasonable cost the newer cars won't have a aftermarket solution 

I mean do you think Mobridge will pay $millions for the rights to access there Canbus software? For such a small market to begin with they will never recover there costs 

Bmw Audi Merc etc don't want anyone to touch there systems because of warranties etc... and they would want you to purchase a $10k audio option on there cars and make money off it at the same time

You want a high end system in your fancy car - buy one with the fancy system already factory installed...

I remember a guy who services all the Merc and bmw OEM HUs and he was saying the new cars are on revision 51 of the canbus system and the aftermarket guys are only upto 34 and manufacturers are not releasing rights to them - he says he spoke to the manufacturers overseas and they simply not interested in the aftermarket audio scene...

In fact they coming up with more complicated systems to ensure nobody touches there cars...

Car audio scene in decades to come will be very niche and mainly for old school cars nothing from 2025 in the high end car scene will be touchable unless you really buy a low spec version - but I suspect manufacturers will all jump on the "Logic 7" as a base option to encourage sales against there competitors - it will only take one manufacturer to offer this as standard for the rest to follow...

You would have to by a KIA to be able to install a serious aftermarket system in the future... or a pre 2020 model car - even that will depend on what standard options it came with from the factory...


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I think Oem taking advantage of logic 7 and FIR is the future, like the oem Dirac companies. Once companies start letting someone with good tuning skills do a tune on a stock system and then give that tune to the internal dsp of every headunit of the make/model. 90% of people will be blown away. 

As for new cars. Its not hard at all to have an entirely external audio system short of a remote out.

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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Jscoyne2 said:


> I mean the RSX-GS9 came out pretty recently. So i wouldnt say single din SQ units are totally dead.
> 
> 
> 
> Flac/dsd playability is still needed and not really easily remedied with a phone short of tablet.




Most DAP do DSD FLAC and everything else.. the specs on these DAPs are outrageous compared to normal car audio products 

And much cheaper - that new Pioneer DAP can be had for $600 or the FIIO7 can be had for similar money still cheaper than the P99 

Granted you need a DSP as well but the DAP can be used at home or as a Walkman and transferable to other cars 

This is where the audio market is going...


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Elektra said:


> Most DAP do DSD FLAC and everything else.. the specs on these DAPs are outrageous compared to normal car audio products
> 
> And much cheaper - that new Pioneer DAP can be had for $600 or the FIIO7 can be had for similar money still cheaper than the P99
> 
> ...


The heck is a Dap....

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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Jscoyne2 said:


> I think Oem taking advantage of logic 7 and FIR is the future, like the oem Dirac companies. Once companies start letting someone with good tuning skills do a tune on a stock system and then give that tune to the internal dsp of every headunit of the make/model. 90% of people will be blown away.
> 
> As for new cars. Its not hard at all to have an entirely external audio system short of a remote out.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk




Yes - I reckon a parallel system - leave all the OEM stuff in tact and build a system around a DAP and aftermarket speakers and amps etc...

Car manufacturers will start releasing cars that can pickup which speakers are playing and throw faults on the OBC which will affect the car and cause other problems 




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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Jscoyne2 said:


> The heck is a Dap....
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk




DAP = digital audio player -FIIO7 etc 


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Elektra said:


> Yes - I reckon a parallel system - leave all the OEM stuff in tact and build a system around a DAP and aftermarket speakers and amps etc...
> 
> Car manufacturers will start releasing cars that can pickup which speakers are playing and throw faults on the OBC which will affect the car and cause other problems
> 
> ...


I think your reaching here. I dont see any reason to start triggering error codes with a blown speaker or what looks like a blown speaker. 

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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

http://www.pioneer-audiovisual.eu/eu/def/products/xdp-300r


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Jscoyne2 said:


> I think your reaching here. I dont see any reason to start triggering error codes with a blown speaker or what looks like a blown speaker.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk




Who knows what the latest Canbus systems are capable of... 


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Elektra said:


> Who knows what the latest Canbus systems are capable of...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Whats capable and whats logical are very different.

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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Whats capable and whats logical are very different.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk




Well in most cars the OBC is linked to the HU - fiddle with that and you can lose your expensive warranty 

Car manufacturers want everything to be in house and bought off there parts counter 

Who knows what a 2020 3 series will be or a C class Merc or latest Audi or Golf 8 etc... 

All I know is that it going to be a huge hassle to do aftermarket - you may as well live with it or look for a car that has the suitable audio option... 

For me I am looking for a F10 M5 ... problem being being a top end BMW model they usually fully spec'd which entails a Logic 7 system B&O etc...

If I can't find one that has a base audio spec I may have to rethink the audio upgrade in that car as I would rather have the car and lose the audio upgrade TBH.... 


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## jcmorong (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes I think cd is almost dead, Pionner should be thinking of a head unid for the STAGE 4 Line or not?


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

jcmorong said:


> Yes I think cd is almost dead, Pionner should be thinking of a head unid for the STAGE 4 Line or not?




They should be making a DSP to beat the Helix Pro... 


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Elektra said:


> They should be making a DSP to beat the Helix Pro...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thats so far off pioneers target market. That's what this forum seems to always forget

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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> Thats so far off pioneers target market. That's what this forum seems to always forget
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


Bingo!

There will never be another P99RS. Replacing OEM headunits, let alone single din stereos, is a thing of the past. You now have $18000 Chevy Cruze's with factory 7" screens with CarPlay. The audio business will be around for a long time but it's no longer based around the actual radio.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

SkizeR said:


> Thats so far off pioneers target market. That's what this forum seems to always forget
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


^ Yep.. In fact, all the biggies (Kenwood, Alpine, Pioneer).. They're not concerned with 1% of 1% of the already small car audio market. Thank goodness for Audiotec-Fischer and the healthy Euro SQ market.

On the 99RS.. It's the last and pinnacle of a dying breed.. I wish I had kept mine. IMO the classiest 1-din Pioneer did, inside and out.. But a buggy whip in the dawn of no more buggies.


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

My buggy has 268 horses pulling it about on the cobblestone roads and my trusty P99RS shall whip them for quite a while longer. Be back later as the horses wish for some carrots....


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

Market has really moved in the last 2 years - HiRes is all the rage and very few HU's comply now and the fact that even cheap cars are using HUs that can't be removed without modification which will exclude a large market of recreational fanatics that may think it's too much of a mission to install anything a plug and play situation is more appealing 

Seems that guys are more willing to compromise on the end goal in audio more than ever...

The solution Audiotec Fisher offers is good solution but the cables for your car and the DSP no cutting just plug and play keep your dash factory seems to be getting a lot of love these days 

Maybe we will start to see OEM replacement becoming more high end as technology and popularity improves...

But the audio market has to evolve to survive in my opinion... it's no longer the 90's


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Put a sound system in a 2017 fully loaded Ford F150 today. Used the Maestro AR to two aftermarket amps. It ended up sounding amazing and there was no wires cut and it didn't take us two days and all the factory controls and bells and whistles work exactly how they did before.

That's the future of car audio. The *actual* car stereo itself will no longer be an item that is sold and installed.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Jscoyne2 said:


> I mean the RSX-GS9 came out pretty recently


True, but they've only sold 4.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Pioneer should come out the good old AXM-P90RS + DSP that accepting various type of inputs and with at least 10 channels of RCA outputs.


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## jcmorong (Sep 7, 2009)

Many competitors are buying the gs9, pioneer has many screens, should do one with 4 ways at least like p99


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

you guys should work for pioneer


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## MB2008LTZ (Oct 13, 2012)

kyheng said:


> Pioneer should come out the good old AXM-P90RS + DSP that accepting various type of inputs and with at least 10 channels of RCA outputs.


I would so buy that...even if I had to get a loan from the bank.


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