# Hertz HSK 165.4 vs. Massive Audio Ck6 vs A/D/S 346cs review



## zylerh (Nov 24, 2010)

I recently was able to compare several 6.5 component sets over the weekend in my car and thought I’d give my opinion on the sounds and differences. Three components were compared- Hertz hsk165.4 (newer model), Massive Audio ck6, and A/D/S 346cs
First my original system (which happens to be my first):
-Camry 07 SE
-Amp: Eclipse XA4000- rated 125rms to the components, 350 bridged to sub
-Head unit: Kenwood Excelon DDX8017- excellent unit btw
-A/D/S 346cs 6.5 components- tweeter in the sails, woofer in the original factory location- both doors double layer of sound deadener with neoprene baffles
-rears- who cares - they’re factory
-sub: Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1 in the truck sealed in 1 c.f. with polyfill

First comparison with Hertz hsk165.4 in the left side and A/D/S on the right.
The hertz tweeter is just so smooth. These are the best tweets that I’ve heard so far. The vocals aren’t harsh and the cymbals are visible but not in your face. The tweets were aimed at the passenger’s ears as the manual recommends. They just exist enough to be heard but don’t overwhelm the sound. Definitely more visible than the A/D/S tweets. The voice (I used different CD’s ranging from Kid Cudi, Pink, to U2) are smooth and clear with the Hertz. Used the Hertz crossover on the left side.
The woofer is a different story- it really didn’t distinguish itself too much from my A/D/S woofers, which look much better imo. The lower frequencies (bass) are somewhat weak with both woofers. The midrange is ok- nothing that stands out. Note that they don’t suck either- they’re both good enough. It could be that I’m not driving enough power to the Hertz, so take that into account.

Given that I felt the Hertz set was simply better than my A/D/S set I didn’t bother to compare the A/D/S set with the CK6s.

Therefore I replaced the right side with the CK6s and it’s crossover. 
The ck6 tweets are harsh. I know that in one review I read you need to give it time to break in the tweets but I can’t imagine them getting much softer to my liking. The tweets are the newer silk dome 28mm tweets. The cymbals are crystal clear, but too clear in my opinion. They have more detail than the Hertz, but I really think this seemed to be the case because the ck6 tweets were simply lounder. When I set them at -3db the still were too in-my-face. They almost sound like the Infinity Kappas tweets that I heard in my friend’s car several years back. The vocals are the same, but loud to where I swear Bono’s voice was straining or even somewhat muddled (same opinion from my girlfriend in the passenger seat). I even switched the crossovers with the Hertz system during this trial. I messed with the db and set it at -3, 0, but didn’t bother with +3. I also did the same with the Hertz set. Now I did a comparison with these two sets for 2 hours (really wanted to like the tweets of the ck6 and thought maybe my headunit’s settings were off, but each time came to the conclusion that my ears would eventual strain with these tweets). Those of you who like the tweet to be a little stronger will love em, but be aware that I really felt the vocals were strained.

Now for the ck6 woofers- completely different story. These are badass woofers . DAT wasn’t lying. They are simply wonderful- rich and full of bass. Instruments and bass lines during U2’s Actung Baby soundtrack were heard that I didn’t know existed. For example it handled “tryin to throw your arms around the world- track 9” – something my A/D/S struggled to do well when Adam’s bass guitar starts in the song. Midrange and midbass is excellent. And for the first time, my sub was not prominent in any of the tracks- the woofers mixed very well with the sub. They simply filled the car with rich sound. Again crossovers were switched and I even switched the tweeters. They easily took the power from my amp and put out a great sound.

I spent two hours comparing these two sets- somewhat became obsessed to be honest. I changed multiple settings on the headunit- changed the crossovers- mixed the woofers and tweeters- I can’t even remember all the different combos I tried. Basically in the end I found the tweets of the Hertz set and the woofers of the ck6 set to work the best. I kept the massive audio crossovers also. I am quite happy with this combo- until the next thing hits of course .


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## pandaboy50 (Sep 11, 2010)

great review, I installed my set of ck6 as well. I found the tweeters to be quite harsh. the woofer was very boomy as well. I don't know if that's a good thing or not yet. For the price I would say these speakers are easily worth double their price!


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## Durry (Oct 9, 2010)

Nice Review...let see how i like them.


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

I think the crossover is too lenient on the tweeters. Before I bought these, I had been using my Alpine SPX ring radiators, and I've noticed that with different passives XO's the tweeter would sound too bright or just right. I think the PPI 356cs crossover tamed them the best.

However when I ran the Ck6 woofer, Ck6 XO and Alpine tweeter, it was untamed again. I finally put the Massive tweeters in the sail panels and I do agree that it's harsh. I think it needs a little more attenuation. Probably another resistor inline... but I'm not sure what value to use...?

I'm tempted to buy different passive crossovers and see which tame these tweeters the best. I do agree- they have INCREDIBLE detail, but even at -3 they're louder than I care for.

Great review! I never wrote my own review of these, but my judgment of them was based on the details in songs that I could suddenly hear that I didn't know were there before. Those mids do blow away anything I have heard thus far. It's funny because when I'm at home and I listen to a song and hear in my home speakers some detail I didn't know was in a song, I make it a point to listen to that song next time I get in the car and see if I can hear it there too. The Massives have yet to disappoint me.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Interesting? I really dont think its a very fair or realistic approach to "reviewing" or even testing comp sets.... My advice is to install each set seperately and install them as they should be. Tweets on or off axis, depeding on the company recommendations. This will give a much clearer sense of each comps abilities or faults. One set on one side vs. the other side really isnt a valid way to compare comp sets. It might be really fun to see what the results would be if you REALLY install each set as a whole and set everything up accordingly. Maybe the results will be the same? Maybe not? I am sure the overall impressions of each set will change dramatically! Great choices of comps to compare though!


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## zylerh (Nov 24, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> Interesting? I really dont think its a very fair or realistic approach to "reviewing" or even testing comp sets.... My advice is to install each set seperately and install them as they should be. Tweets on or off axis, depeding on the company recommendations. This will give a much clearer sense of each comps abilities or faults. One set on one side vs. the other side really isnt a valid way to compare comp sets. It might be really fun to see what the results would be if you REALLY install each set as a whole and set everything up accordingly. Maybe the results will be the same? Maybe not? I am sure the overall impressions of each set will change dramatically! Great choices of comps to compare though!


I think I was drained after so much testing. The harshness of the ck6 tweets led me to believe I wouldn't handle both tweets going strong- but you never know. What I learned was that both the ck6 and hertz tweets are clearer and louder than my A/D/S. Now with my current set up (Hertz tweets), I notice the tweets more than ever. I have to get used to this new sound- still a little harsh at times for me when coming from the A/D/S tweets. 

Kvndoom- maybe I should have used the A/D/S crossovers and the ck6's tweets would have been tamed. 
Regardless, the entire ck6 set is well worth the price.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

I agree that the tweets are to loud, the passives don't do a good job of allowing us to attenuate them enough, especially for a pillar mounted install. However for off axis kick mounted, they might be alright.

I found that just attenuating the tweets at 8khz a bit really helped with the smoothness even with the stock passives.... but this helps most sets I have used in car.

Of course active is a different story as it's easy to control the loudness. MS8 makes this set sound awesome IMO.

I first used these passive bridged off of an nx5 and I couldn't believe the output from the mids. These are beasts as mentioned before.

I found that the set sounded strange until after a few hours of break in. After the break in, I found the improvement to be considerable.


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## ilovebass (Jun 7, 2008)

very nice review, i agree the ck6 tweets are very loud and clear..to the point I would say harsh too. I have it set at 0 on the crossover and want to bring it to -3 but am too lazy to open the doors again.


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

I'm just gonna order a few pairs of resistors from parts express and experiment until I get it just right. I'll update in a week or three with results.


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## primetime1267 (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm hoping when I get my set of ck6 the tweets are a tad tamer. I'm going to leave them in my Yukon stock location in the door panel. I'll post an update on the harshness if I experience it also.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Well, if it's too harsh, just put them more offaxis. Focal has been preaching this for years now. And I agree with _Rexroadj_, try to install 1 set at a time, take notes of what you like and what you don't like. Listen for small details, center stage (1st row at a concert or 10 rows back), imaging and soundstage (well defined, precise), etc... 

Your preference might change again. And if you do that a year from now, you might go back to your first choice... Car Audio is fun  

Kelvin


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## pandaboy50 (Sep 11, 2010)

I may have gotten a lemon but after having my tweeters installed for about two days one of my tweeters is blown. I have not cranked it up to ear splitting levels, if at all.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

pandaboy50 said:


> I may have gotten a lemon but after having my tweeters installed for about two days one of my tweeters is blown. I have not cranked it up to ear splitting levels, if at all.


Which set? 

Kelvin


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

pandaboy50 said:


> I may have gotten a lemon but after having my tweeters installed for about two days one of my tweeters is blown. I have not cranked it up to ear splitting levels, if at all.


Passive? Active? What amp?


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## pandaboy50 (Sep 11, 2010)

Massive ck6, I ran them passive. Amp was a jl 300/2


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## Bndrulez (Feb 3, 2008)

Do these sets come with the braxial mounts that are pictured in DAT's classified thread? With all this talk of harshness I may want to mount them coaxially in the door first off, then experimenting with the tweets mounted in the sails afterward. I will be running mine active with a CDA-9835 and 60x4 amp.


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

Bndrulez said:


> Do these sets come with the braxial mounts that are pictured in DAT's classified thread? With all this talk of harshness I may want to mount them coaxially in the door first off, then experimenting with the tweets mounted in the sails afterward. I will be running mine active with a CDA-9835 and 60x4 amp.


Yeah it's a little plastic piece that screws into the back of the tweeter. It's in the box.


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## Bndrulez (Feb 3, 2008)

Thank you.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

Bndrulez said:


> Do these sets come with the braxial mounts that are pictured in DAT's classified thread? With all this talk of harshness I may want to mount them coaxially in the door first off, then experimenting with the tweets mounted in the sails afterward. I will be running mine active with a CDA-9835 and 60x4 amp.


i plan on doing the same thing. i bought the ck-6's i pl;an on mounting braxially and installing in the doors along with the ct-2 tweeters that i plan on mounting in the dash. i hope to get it all installed in the next few weeks. the massive stuff is replacing my aura mr-62 braxials and mr-1 tweeters that are installed there now..
mine wont be run acticve so my plans are different in that aspect.

the massive gear looks well built thats for certain. i will post a review once i get it installed and spend some time with them.


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

I'm using a small computer amp to break mine in, and these things are phenomenal!!!

I am listening to music I haven't listened to in months just to see how they sound on this set. Everything is sounding great so far! From The Beatles, to Green Day, to Jet, to Foreigner, to The Black Crowes, Kylie Minogue, Led Zeppelin, Ella Fitzgerald, Metallica, Chopin... it's all superb!!!


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## Durry (Oct 9, 2010)

does component speakers have a break in period??? or just these "ck6" ....?


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## Irishfocus06 (Sep 11, 2008)

Glad I read this about the Massive tweets. Gonna put them at -3. I like some harshness as long as it is clear, but my ears arent what they used to be. 

Thanks for the reviews guys. 

Also purchased the ck6's, but not sure if only giving it 65-75rms is really gonna make them shine. I guess I shall see and if not, new amp.....


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

chithead said:


> I'm using a small computer amp to break mine in, and these things are phenomenal!!!
> 
> I am listening to music I haven't listened to in months just to see how they sound on this set. Everything is sounding great so far! From The Beatles, to Green Day, to Jet, to Foreigner, to The Black Crowes, Kylie Minogue, Led Zeppelin, Ella Fitzgerald, Metallica, Chopin... it's all superb!!!


Oh man, just wait till you throw some serious power at them... :laugh:

I'm still waiting for my resistors. I hope like hell I get them before Saturday.


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## Bndrulez (Feb 3, 2008)

Durry said:


> does component speakers have a break in period??? or just these "ck6" ....?


Most all speakers have break in.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

This should help you tame those tweets

L-Pad (Driver Attenuation Circuit) Designer / Calculator


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

Well fooling around with resistors worked! I played around with a few different configurations, and for me putting the tweeter at 0dB with a 2Ω resistor in *parallel *did the trick.

That's just my ears, obviously, and everyone needs to find their own sweet spot... but if you muck with it long enough you'll get them where you like.

Guess the bottom line is that you'll need to spend a few extra bucks (literally, just a few), but your overall cost is still less than 200, and these are still one crazy hell of a bargain.


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## chase (Feb 15, 2011)

kvndoom said:


> Well fooling around with resistors worked! I played around with a few different configurations, and for me putting the tweeter at 0dB with a 2Ω resistor in *parallel *did the trick.
> 
> That's just my ears, obviously, and everyone needs to find their own sweet spot... but if you muck with it long enough you'll get them where you like.
> 
> Guess the bottom line is that you'll need to spend a few extra bucks (literally, just a few), but your overall cost is still less than 200, and these are still one crazy hell of a bargain.


Can you explain how you did this? I'm not sure I understand (noob). Is a 2ohm resistor something I could pick up at radioshack? Running the ck6's off an nx4. Thanks!


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

I got the resistors from Parts Express:

NON-INDUCTIVE RESISTORS from Parts Express ship same day and come with 45 day money back guarantee. Free Shipping Available. Order free 10,000 product catalog.

I used crimp on spade terminals (you can get em at radio shack) to attach the resistor to the crossover terminals. I'm not sure Radio shack sells high power resistors anymore, and even if they do it'll probably cost more than PE.


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## jedc (May 4, 2009)

kvndoom said:


> I got the resistors from Parts Express:
> 
> NON-INDUCTIVE RESISTORS from Parts Express ship same day and come with 45 day money back guarantee. Free Shipping Available. Order free 10,000 product catalog.
> 
> I used crimp on spade terminals (you can get em at radio shack) to attach the resistor to the crossover terminals. I'm not sure Radio shack sells high power resistors anymore, and even if they do it'll probably cost more than PE.


How did you figure on using the 2 ohm resistor and what effect does it have on the freq curve?


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

As I said in my previous post, it was trial and error, I just played with different resistors (I bought a pair of 2- 3- and 4-ohm) in series and parallel configs until I found something pleasing to my ears.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks for sharing kvn.

I have a CK6 set coming in as well... i can't wait.
I might as well order a few resistors now; so that i'll be able to get them all at the same time.

I'll probably let the Ck's play for a good week before i mess with them though.


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## Durry (Oct 9, 2010)

kvndoom said:


> Well fooling around with resistors worked! I played around with a few different configurations, and for me putting the tweeter at 0dB with a 2Ω resistor in *parallel *did the trick.
> 
> That's just my ears, obviously, and everyone needs to find their own sweet spot... but if you muck with it long enough you'll get them where you like.
> 
> Guess the bottom line is that you'll need to spend a few extra bucks (literally, just a few), but your overall cost is still less than 200, and these are still one crazy hell of a bargain.



can you post some pics about this, i might be interested in this ...


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it just a matter of taking the resistor, and adding it onto your tweeter terminals? (Parallel)

Seems like there's a lot of confusion about this..


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## Durry (Oct 9, 2010)

oh ok.......

and easy resonance....


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

i think what resonance is saying is that all you have to do is put the resistor across the speaker terminals. not hard to change them out and esperiment.


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## theRESONANCE (Aug 28, 2008)

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across hostile. :]

We're all one big happy family here.


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## Durry (Oct 9, 2010)

dont worry man, its Obamas fault...


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## Razz2o4 (Jan 23, 2011)

AAAAAAA said:


> I agree that the tweets are to loud, the passives don't do a good job of allowing us to attenuate them enough, especially for a pillar mounted install. However for off axis kick mounted, they might be alright.
> 
> I found that just attenuating the tweets at 8khz a bit really helped with the smoothness even with the stock passives.... but this helps most sets I have used in car.
> 
> ...


 This is exactly what I am looking to do. I will be running them off my MS-8 powered by the NX5. I can't wait!


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## Durry (Oct 9, 2010)

Man I got a set of ctx65cs installed in my car right now and don't know if this would sound better...  
I've heard so many good thing about the "ck6"...I'm undecided...

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


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## MileHigh350 (Jan 15, 2011)

I'm also waiting on my CK6 set. Got a great deal on a brand new pair (thanks to south east customz)! Damn UPS is too slow. Or maybe I'm just impatient! I'm hoping I can tame the tweeters by running active through a 3Sixty.2.


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## HWORK (Jan 15, 2009)

How do you think the ck6 would do mounted in a motorcycle fairing running off a nx2? I'm looking for something different for my bike than the J&m speakers I have now.


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## AKMetal (Mar 3, 2011)

this thread is making it even harder to decide on components..


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## newsqguy (Apr 16, 2008)

yes it is too bad i don't understand the resistor piece (i'm a visual learner)


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## shrike07 (Feb 6, 2011)

Anyone have an idea of how this set would compare to the DLS up6i's. Had these in mind before running into this thread.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

shrike07 said:


> Anyone have an idea of how this set would compare to the DLS up6i's. Had these in mind before running into this thread.


Not the same sound at all. The UP6i will have a much more relaxed sound. Smooth and soft sound. 
The HSK and the CK6 are much brighter in the low treble to high treble... 

Kelvin


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## shrike07 (Feb 6, 2011)

subwoofery said:


> Not the same sound at all. The UP6i will have a much more relaxed sound. Smooth and soft sound.
> The HSK and the CK6 are much brighter in the low treble to high treble...
> 
> Kelvin


Thanks. Just hope I'll like them cause I've just ordered the RK6 from DAT. Guess i can always try the resisters or if all else fails get other tweeters. The MS8 might also work....


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

Alas, the CK6's are coming out of my doors tonight... 

But only because I'm getting rid of the car soon! Ha ha, I can't wait to put them in my next ride! These babies _*rock*_!


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## HWORK (Jan 15, 2009)

Can anyone that hasn't installed the CK6 set yet give me dimensions of the crossover module? I am mounting these in a motorcycle fairing and need to know where to mount them.....


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## jedc (May 4, 2009)

I can give you some rough dimensions when I get off work. Mine are already installed but easily accessible.


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

HWORK said:


> Can anyone that hasn't installed the CK6 set yet give me dimensions of the crossover module? I am mounting these in a motorcycle fairing and need to know where to mount them.....


5-1/8 x 4-1/4 x 1-5/8


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

Since some have asked... It's easier to put a resistor in series than bending/cutting leads to put in parallel. Difference is, for series lower values will attenuate less, whereas in parallel, lower values will attenuate more. Anyway, just get some spade connectors and butt connectors from Radio Shack, and:










Crimp the butt end to the + wire going to the tweeter, and affix the spade to the screw terminal (-3, 0, +3) that gives you the output you like the most. You should experiment with different resistor values; I'd recommend buying a pair each of 1, 2, and 4 ohm.

Mills Non-Inductive Crossover Resistors at Parts Express


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

kvndoom said:


> Since some have asked... It's easier to put a resistor in series than bending/cutting leads to put in parallel. Difference is, for series lower values will attenuate less, whereas in parallel, lower values will attenuate more. Anyway, just get some spade connectors and butt connectors from Radio Shack, and:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which resistor did you go with ?


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

Ahhhh you would ask me that, bad as my memory is... I _*think *_I did 2-ohms in series with the -3dB terminal. The good thing is that if it's too low you can just move it to the 0dB terminal for a little more volume.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Awesome, and I assume you used massive audio crossovers if i'm not mistaken?

Thank you for the info.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Fun! Some old school diy in the passive realm. What a fun read.
Got some RK6's coming so of course I'm reading up.


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## VerTigo456 (Dec 6, 2006)

Just picked up some Ck6's myself to run off my NX5. Plan on putting the tweets in my a-pillars and the mids in the doors. Can't wait!


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