# if quality rca cables are so important.....



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

.... then why do the rca pre outs on my eclipse avn unit look so cheap? i mean, will it make a difference if i buy cheap cables or expensive ones?

i was shopping knukonceptz site and plan on getting a 4ch; should i get klarity, karma, or krystal? and will i notice, or hear a difference?


----------



## shnitz (Jun 13, 2011)

The RCA preouts just need to provide a surface area and voltage. An RCA cable has to carry this voltage over a distance. The more metal it has in it, the lower the resistance will be. The better shielding it has, the less chance that you'll get interference from other things like power cables running near it, etc. There's definitely a point of diminishing returns, you don't need to be spending more on cables than you are on the amplifier or anything. If it were a digital signal, then it wouldn't matter, because as long as it's arriving, a signal is a signal is a signal. Unfortunately, RCA preouts are analog.


----------



## rytekproject (Feb 25, 2011)

I agree. I would never buy super cheap RCA cables, but a midrange set as long as it has a good connector and is shielded is good for me. The Krystal cable looks pretty tough, but I dont feel like I noticed a difference when I used to run those highly shielded cables


----------



## ryan s (Dec 19, 2006)

Yeah, Eclipse always used the 1980s Radio Shack RCA ends on their high-end units, even :laugh:

What's more important than shielding or whatever is where/how you run them. Keep them away from noise sources like computers (ECU/TCM), the antenna, fuel pump, etc.

I have the _faintest _alternator whine at lower volumes, still, even with IXOS cables and their crazy twisted drain wire scheme.

Go with whatever your budget supports. Or get the ones with the nice plugs that you like looking at :laugh: I've run all kinds of KnuKonceptz RCAs over the years and the Karmas are the ones I like the most (the smoked silver/black ones with the black chrome ends). These IXOS are nice but they're impossible to remove from the amp...but they were $6/ea so...


----------



## jonatbaylor (Aug 20, 2009)

shnitz said:


> Unfortunately, RCA preouts are analog.


Some people prefer analog 

Well, clean analog.


----------



## gus1111 (Apr 17, 2009)

Long Live Analog!!!


----------



## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

No, do not buy cheap rca's . There is a difference between $5 rca's and $25 rca's.


----------



## jonatbaylor (Aug 20, 2009)

Angrywhopper said:


> No, do not buy cheap rca's . There is a difference between $5 rca's and $25 rca's.


20 bucks? 

all joking aside I could go with this line of thought.

You really do get what you pay for - if its super cheap they cut corners *somewhere*.


----------



## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

Angrywhopper said:


> No, do not buy cheap rca's . There is a difference between $5 rca's and $25 rca's.


Funny thing is, there is more of a difference between those price points than there is between $25 and $250 RCAs.

Honestly, any RCA cables with decent ends and flexible jackets will be fine. Get "twisted pair" or whatever else helps you sleep at night, but as long as you route the cables away from sources of noise and they are making good contact at both ends, you should be good.


----------



## sirvent_95 (Feb 14, 2011)

Do not cheap out on your interconnects. Buy the best your budget will
actually support. There is a difference. I can hear a difference from the cheapest to my Audioquest. I only use the lower mid-range cables though, because once you get using 'good' cables the audible difference from 'good' to 'perfect' is very negligible.

I would suggest a budget of about at least $50 per pair. I always put my finest cables on the front stage. Check classifieds here or also audiogon.com
has a selection from their members.


----------



## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Spend your money on something that matters and RCA cables don't. Many of the cablesthat claim to be "shielded" simply include an additional layer of conductive stuff--wire, foil, etc. The problem is that it's unterminated and therefore an antenna--designed to pick up noise. Some cables are, in fact, shielded but in my 25 years of experience I've never had a noise problem SOLVED by installing expensive cables but I have fixed many noise problems by removing the high-end cable and replacing it with a $5 set from Radio Shack.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Spend your money on something that matters and RCA cables don't. Many of the cablesthat claim to be "shielded" simply include an additional layer of conductive stuff--wire, foil, etc. The problem is that it's unterminated and therefore an antenna--designed to pick up noise. Some cables are, in fact, shielded but in my 25 years of experience I've never had a noise problem SOLVED by installing expensive cables but I have fixed many noise problems by removing the high-end cable and replacing it with a $5 set from Radio Shack.



For only $4.41 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 15ft Premium 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M 22AWG Cable - Black | 2-RCA Audio Cables


----------



## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> For only $4.41 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 15ft Premium 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M 22AWG Cable - Black | 2-RCA Audio Cables


Those are what I had in my car and they were great.


----------



## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

chefhow said:


> Those are what I had in my car and they were great.


This is what I'm running in mine.


----------



## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> For only $4.41 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 15ft Premium 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M 22AWG Cable - Black | 2-RCA Audio Cables


Or should I say this is what I'm running in mine.. not Chef.


----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)




----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Don't tell anyone but I'm running coat hangers insulated in between my sound deadening layers. You just gotta make sure you grind the finish down to bare metal at the points were each coat hangar end meets and twist around another, if not your signal cuts out when you hit bumps.


----------



## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

Fricasseekid said:


> Don't tell anyone but I'm running coat hangers insulated in between my sound deadening layers. You just gotta make sure you grind the finish down to bare metal at the points were each coat hangar end meets and twist around another, if not your signal cuts out when you hit bumps.


this should be in the you laugh you lose thread, cause i laughed.


----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

spl152db said:


> this should be in the you laugh you lose thread, cause i laughed.


It is, no one laughed there.


----------



## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

Fricasseekid said:


> It is, no one laughed there.


didn't see it.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Fricasseekid said:


> Don't tell anyone but I'm running coat hangers insulated in between my sound deadening layers. You just gotta make sure you grind the finish down to bare metal at the points were each coat hangar end meets and twist around another, if not your signal cuts out when you hit bumps.





spl152db said:


> this should be in the you laugh you lose thread, cause i laughed.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> in fact, shielded but in my 25 years of experience I've never had a noise problem SOLVED by installing expensive cables but I have fixed many noise problems by removing the high-end cable and replacing it with a $5 set from Radio Shack.


This, I have had a noise problem solved by 20 cents a foot PROPERLY shielded cabling that was PROPERLY terminated.


----------



## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Spend your money on something that matters and RCA cables don't. Many of the cablesthat claim to be "shielded" simply include an additional layer of conductive stuff--wire, foil, etc. The problem is that it's unterminated and therefore an antenna--designed to pick up noise. Some cables are, in fact, shielded but in my 25 years of experience I've never had a noise problem SOLVED by installing expensive cables but I have fixed many noise problems by removing the high-end cable and replacing it with a $5 set from Radio Shack.


Ha HA!

Oh, thou who doth enter science into the equation shall be made into flambeau!


----------



## shnitz (Jun 13, 2011)

I agree with Andy over sirvent. There's no way that you're hearing a difference between a $10 cable and a $300 cable. The fact that Audioquest sells a $70 1-meter HDMI cable tells me all I need to know about the company: snake oil. Also, a quick google search shows me that anyone with their products has more money than technical knowledge.

Friend bought Audioquest "columbia" RCA's... Tell me why the $$$ plz  - AVS Forum
AudioQuest Responds to Top 10 Snake Oil Article — Reviews and News from Audioholics


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

shnitz said:


> I agree with Andy over sirvent. There's no way that you're hearing a difference between a $10 cable and a $300 cable. The fact that Audioquest sells a $70 1-meter HDMI cable tells me all I need to know about the company: snake oil. Also, a quick google search shows me that anyone with their products has more money than technical knowledge.
> 
> Friend bought Audioquest "columbia" RCA's... Tell me why the $$$ plz  - AVS Forum
> AudioQuest Responds to Top 10 Snake Oil Article — Reviews and News from Audioholics



I'll have to disagree with you on this, but you have to read the back story and it involves speaker wire, I'll try and be brief.. 

Esoteric Audio, well known manufacture of cabling(HA)... came into our shop to do a demo, brought 20 sets of speaker cables (yeah I know, this is an RCA talk, bear with me) 

He demoed from the lamp cord up to the crap as big as a babies arm... I couldn't tell a difference.. This was in a home audio setting on a nice Yamaha "boom box" so as to not be skewed by anything we knew around us... 

I asked him sheepishly, I said "Sir, I appreciate all the demo, but honestly, I couldn't hear a difference, could we go from lamp cord to babies arm, without the rest" 

He said sure and we re-demoed... sure enough, the huge stuff sounded more "open" the highs where more pronounced and far smoother, the lows actually tightened up... 

I couldn't hear a difference without a A/B right there and I wouldn't be able to catch the difference in a car I bet... 

Point to the story, there IS a difference in how they sound, WILL YOU hear it in a car, with a simple cable change, not likely... but there IS a difference in that respect.. 

That is all, thank you..


----------



## shnitz (Jun 13, 2011)

OK, as I said in my first post here, post #2, if you get bargain-basement cables, they will likely be thinner. If a cable has less copper, then it has a higher resistance. Simple physics. My post doesn't violate that. Of course if you are listening to speakers, you will notice a difference between 24 gauge wire and 4/0 gauge wire, because the 24-gauge wire has a much higher resistance and lower ampacity. But, given that you have two properly-made 14 gauge wires, you aren't going to hear a difference between a $75/foot and a $0.30/foot cable.


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

sirvent_95 said:


> *** I can hear a difference from the cheapest to my Audioquest.


Why? What's wrong with the design or assembly of your Audioquest wires?



Andy Wehmeyer said:


> *** Some cables are, in fact, shielded but in my 25 years of experience I've never had a noise problem SOLVED by installing expensive cables but I have fixed many noise problems by removing the high-end cable and replacing it with a $5 set from Radio Shack.


Haha, that's priceless.



shnitz said:


> I agree with Andy over sirvent. There's no way that you're hearing a difference between a $10 cable and a $300 cable. The fact that Audioquest sells a $70 1-meter HDMI cable tells me all I need to know about the company: snake oil.


Yep. Here's the kind of garbage they do:










Yes, audiophool _USB_ wires! (And HDMI, just as stupid but somehow slightly less funny.)

(That said, I do own some AQ wire. Reason? They were the only firm making three-wire component video cables in a rounded - more triangular than round, admittedly - jacket, as opposed to the typical triple-barrel shotgun. I buy wires based on price and the one area where they actually do differ: looks.)



Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I'll have to disagree with you on this, but you have to read the back story and it involves speaker wire, I'll try and be brief..
> 
> Esoteric Audio, well known manufacture of cabling(HA)... came into our shop to do a demo, brought 20 sets of speaker cables (yeah I know, this is an RCA talk, bear with me)


I own about 400' of Esoteric's top-of-the-line Isopath wire, unless they had a silver-plated conductor one above it, that I bought really because it was available very cheaply for a time. (See here.) 

It's good stuff construction-wise, using absolutely top-tier materials throughout. Not the easiest stuff to run, because the conductors are solid core and thus not as flexible as stranded conductors. 

Does it sound different from anything else? 

No, no matter how good one's speakers are. (Well, it MAY sound different from a speaker wire with a resistor pack on it, or one comically undersized for the impedance of the speakers and the length of the run.)

If it did, I'd be using it right now. And I'm not talking about in the car, either, but at home.

The same goes for their top-line Artus interconnect, though it does have the nicest-looking locking RCA end I've ever seen. If anyone wants a 2m pair of those in mint condition, feel free to let me know. 

And you didn't hear a difference, either. You heard a sales pitch that presented you with the dilemma of either being branded (unfairly) a "poor listener" if you failed to hear the alleged differences.

The bottom line is, they're all wires. If you care, buy 'em based on how they look. For speaker cables, I prefer wires with Teflon insulation. The _only_ reason is that the insulation is thin, so the wires are comparatively thin (and thus easier to hide) for a given copper gauge. The negative with them is that the jackets are a little harder to strip than standard PVC-jackets.


----------



## ak2366 (Dec 27, 2010)

Go for monster 400 series... you would love them. Mid priced and sound good


----------



## Gary S (Dec 11, 2007)

IT's true that some of those pigtails on head units look cheap, and I have heard of people picking up noise through those alone! Note also that some head units don't have pigtails, they just have RCA sockets on the back of the head unit. 

I would still recommend UTP rca's though... I think the longer the run, the more chance there is for noise pick-up. Then again, if you have no noise, the average cable might do. I guess it comes down to wheather or not you have noise.


----------



## sirvent_95 (Feb 14, 2011)

DS-21 said:


> Why? What's wrong with the design or assembly of your Audioquest wires?
> 
> My story is similar to the other post where the poster says he purchased some high end wire at a discount. I've had all my wire for years and never bought any at retail price.
> 
> ...


----------



## Gary S (Dec 11, 2007)

Even some of the high end cable company owners have admitted that cables don't make sound quality.


----------



## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

I spent a little money on mine. Not because I thought they would improve the sound. I did it for reliability. I hate radio shack. EVERYTHING I buy there breaks, is **** or is so cheap it's useless crap. The sales douche is always rude and a guaranteed total idiot. Please don't go there. I'm not saying spend a fortune, just don't go to radio shack, lol.


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

sirvent_95 said:


> ***With a silver conductor inside it the higher frequencies are also slightly more prominent.


You have measurements to back up your claim of altered spectral balance, I presume.

Not that there's anything wrong with silver-based wiring, mind. Arguably, it's nice (though expensive) because it can be slightly thinner - and thus easier to run - than copper for a given resistance. 

Also, a silver- or silver-plated copper doesn't look as bad from corrosion as exposed copper does. (That's the only reason I use silver-plated copper speaker wire in my own cars; [EDIT] I do not use pin connectors on my amp ends or on drive-units with push terminals, and I do not use spades or bananas on drive-units with binding posts. So there is inevitably some exposed wire. Tinning would do the same thing, but tinning takes more effort than just buying stuff with a bit of silver over the copper strands.)[/EDIT] 

But make no mistake, those are the sole differences.


----------



## sirvent_95 (Feb 14, 2011)

DS-21 said:


> You have measurements to back up your claim of altered spectral balance, I presume.


I'm outta here.


----------



## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> You have measurements to back up your claim of altered spectral balance, I presume.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with silver-based wiring, mind. Arguably, it's nice (though expensive) because it can be slightly thinner - and thus easier to run - than copper for a given resistance.
> 
> ...


Silver is more conductive so not the only difference.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

goodstuff said:


> Silver is more conductive so not the only difference.


that's why he mentioned the advantage of the ability to be thinner

Electrons pretty much move at the same speed thru it though. and up to 20K easily at the same core thickness so don't claim "skin effect"


----------



## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

chad said:


> that's why he mentioned the advantage of the ability to be thinner
> 
> Electrons pretty much move at the same speed thru it though. and up to 20K easily at the same core thickness so don't claim "skin effect"


All I said was it's more conductive, which I did not see him directly mention.


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

goodstuff said:


> All I said was it's more conductive, which I did not see him directly mention.


Um, why else would one be able to use a lower gauge (that is to say, thinner) wire for a given resistance?

I did not directly say "sliver is more conductive than copper," that is true. However, the _practical implication_ of that physical fact that in this application is simply that the wire can be thinner for a given resistance.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> Yes, audiophool _USB_ wires! (And HDMI, just as stupid but somehow slightly less funny.)
> 
> (That said, I do own some AQ wire. Reason? They were the only firm making three-wire component video cables in a rounded - more triangular than round, admittedly - jacket, as opposed to the typical triple-barrel shotgun. I buy wires based on price and the one area where they actually do differ: looks.)
> 
> ...


A month later, I had to shorten some cables for a customer, he offered me the cut off, just enough for a close system at home... 

I re-ran the test with the 16awg standard gray monster I had from the shop, that had been on my paltry home system (pio receiver, no amps, Polk towers) and the cut off esoteric


I herd the same difference, repeatedly... 

would I expect to hear that in a car, no... 

but I've been around this as long as a lot of you and FAR longer that a lot of you and FAR less than some... I'm no spring chicken when it comes to what I hear and critically listening... jus sayin... 

For this argument, I'm simply splitting hairs... because like there is no 100%, there is "you'll never hear a difference" cause there is no 100%


----------



## Gary S (Dec 11, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> Also, a silver- or silver-plated copper doesn't look as bad from corrosion as exposed copper does. (That's the only reason I use silver-plated copper speaker wire in my own cars;
> 
> But make no mistake, those are the sole differences.


 - Bingo. Even when silver oxidizes, it's more conductive than the silver itself. The military even uses silver fuses on ships.

Trying to get sonic improvements from cables (other than noise rejection in certain instances) is a fools' errand. You would be better off studying speakers, speaker placement, and install/system integration/tuning if you really want better sound.


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I herd the same difference, repeatedly...


Nice, and very apt, Freudian slip there! 

The herd mentality caused you the "hear" something that simply wasn't there.




Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> For this argument, I'm simply splitting hairs... because like there is no 100%, there is "you'll never hear a difference" cause there is no 100%


There is *simply no difference to hear!*

Note that statement is materially different from your formulation: "you'll never hear a difference." In fact, suggestible people often do in fact "hear" a difference, at least under sighted conditions. (They will, like everyone else, fail a blind test.) But being suggested into believing something does not make it real. 

Though, I suppose, in a country where some haughty bimbo with a "JD" from some third-tier-toilet Christianist "law school" can run for president on an extreme anti-government reactionary agenda whilst blithely sucking at the federal ag-subsidy tit to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars...people being deluded about the properties of simple wires is among the lowest-priority concerns for those of us with education and sense.



Gary S said:


> Trying to get sonic improvements from cables (other than noise rejection in certain instances) is a fools' errand.


I can think of one notable exception: if one set of wires (speaker, line-level, digital, whatever) is half an inch too short to reach between the relevant two components, THEN one will get a _massive_ sonic difference when compared to one that is the right length! 

(And I assume I'm NOT the only one who has been there...)



Gary S said:


> You would be better off studying speakers, speaker placement, and install/system integration/tuning if you really want better sound.


Indeed, that list is what actually matters. Unless you boneheadedly cut a wire too short or something....


----------



## chinaonnitrous1 (Dec 28, 2008)

Fricasseekid said:


>


:laugh:


----------



## xfett (Apr 24, 2011)

There are basically those that believe and those that dont... there are also some that think anything thicker than 16 awg RCA/speaker wire the muddier the sound will be. I personally cant hear the difference but I also almost got into a fist fight with my neighbor for be-littling his ceramic cable supports " that made his music more transparent " ......... bottom line is buy something that looks decent and has a decent build to it and you should be fine


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

xfett said:


> There are basically those that believe and those that dont...


"Believe" is an apt word.

I don't understand why some people are so spiritually empty that they have to "believe" in magic wires, but that's just me...


----------



## Moon Track (Mar 10, 2011)

Lol.Audiophiles they are so strong in their beliefs that sometimes I start to think that I’m absolutely deaf.
Interesting Home Audio site, and very nice inexpensive cable. 
Silnote Morpheus Reference II Cable Review
But I feel better when reading how the power cord improves the tonal balance and soundstage.
6SonsAudio Windigo cable review


----------



## xfett (Apr 24, 2011)

LOL .... Ya i've read those reviews too and shake my head when they get to the part about how those " special " after market power cords make the sound better. I mean come on really ???


----------



## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

i got some twisted pair from scosche...it works.


----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

SoulFly said:


> i got some twisted pair from scosche...it works.


I have the same ones and they are identical to the other RCAs I use which are Memphis Audio.


----------



## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

yeah i noticed them under several brands. dunno how special others are suppose to be by comparison, but i do have some triple shielded, really thick Pheonix Gold RCA which is like 12" long and costed me $25 years ago, and another triple shield good brand, i forget now but the scosche is just as good from what i can tell sound wise.


----------



## thewatusi (Feb 1, 2011)

Moon Track said:


> Lol.Audiophiles they are so strong in their beliefs that sometimes I start to think that I’m absolutely deaf.
> Interesting Home Audio site, and very nice inexpensive cable.
> Silnote Morpheus Reference II Cable Review
> But I feel better when reading how the power cord improves the tonal balance and soundstage.
> 6SonsAudio Windigo cable review


I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but $2k for a power cable? WTF? What kind of moron thinks that transmitting electricity over a fancy cable for the last 6 feet of a journey of a few hundred miles from the power plant makes a difference?

Asshats.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

thewatusi said:


> I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but $2k for a power cable? WTF? What kind of moron thinks that transmitting electricity over a fancy cable for the last 6 feet of a journey of a few hundred miles from the power plant makes a difference?
> 
> Asshats.


You wouldn't be saying that if you heard them with some cable towers.










Also the cable cleansssssssss the power. 



I swear, $25 for a piece of plexi glass bent on a strip heater? They didn't even have the decency to sand and polish the edges.


----------



## thewatusi (Feb 1, 2011)

Guess who's going to Home Depot tomorrow to buy a sheet of plexi glass and a blowtorch.

I'm gonna undercut those bastards and sell "Watusi's Cable-Tables™" 5 for $99. lolololol


----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

I think audio snobs are born with a brain deficiency that makes them incapable of understanding the law of diminishing returns. 

But where can I get on the waiting list for some of those $99 dollar cable tables?


----------



## jrgreene1968 (Jul 7, 2008)

i remember a few yrs ago on the polk forum..there was almost a war started over a $600 amp power cable...but a few of the guys had it in there mind they heard things that they didnt hear with standard power cord, the guy selling them even offered a money back offer..and them fools bought em up..i never did hear if anybody asked for a refund, lol


----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

thewatusi said:


> I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but $2k for a power cable? WTF? What kind of moron thinks that transmitting electricity over a fancy cable for the last 6 feet of a journey of a few hundred miles from the power plant makes a difference?
> 
> Asshats.


They'd be awfully disappointed to see the romex that supplies the power in their walls. Lol

Where is natural selection when you need it?


----------



## thewatusi (Feb 1, 2011)

Romex? They probably have Knob-and-Tube and don't even know it.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)




----------



## Moon Track (Mar 10, 2011)

Something should be here if so many people state that there is difference.
In some cases the cable with low capacitance , shielded or isolated
from metal constructions power cord can make a change. But it is mostly
because of lacks of gear or not taken into account environment influence.
In some cases result can be worse.
I tried to comprehend what stands behind this love to tube amps, vinyl records, oily capacitors, added weight to the CD drive in form of the CD pad. My conclusion was that audiophiles don’t like a neutral sound and are looking for gear that will equalize the sound and will add a little harmonics for their taste. Quite expensive hobby to do it blindly.


----------



## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

A few months ago I went into a local home audio store & was talking to one of the sales people I know about something else (I forget what I needed for my HT)...... I asked him does it really matter cheap vs good RCA's???

He didn't respond..... took me into one of their demo rooms & compared a standard $50ish dollar set of RCA's to a $200 set. To say I was shocked ad the difference is a understatement. Same CD, song, amp, speakers etc the $200 set of RCA cables sounded great..... the cheap set sounded like a blanket was thrown over the speakers.... it was that muffled. I asked does balanced sound any better? He claimed that cheap balanced cables will sound that much better then the $200 RCA cables.......

So yea.... spend money on good RCA's


----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

Viggen said:


> A few months ago I went into a local home audio store & was talking to one of the sales people I know about something else (I forget what I needed for my HT)...... I asked him does it really matter cheap vs good RCA's???
> 
> He didn't respond..... took me into one of their demo rooms & compared a standard $50ish dollar set of RCA's to a $200 set. To say I was shocked ad the difference is a understatement. Same CD, song, amp, speakers etc the $200 set of RCA cables sounded great..... the cheap set sounded like a blanket was thrown over the speakers.... it was that muffled. I asked does balanced sound any better? He claimed that cheap balanced cables will sound that much better then the $200 RCA cables.......
> 
> So yea.... spend money on good RCA's


Sounds like you might be a victim of a marketing tactic to me!


----------



## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

Fricasseekid said:


> Sounds like you might be a victim of a marketing tactic to me!


definitely. HHgregg tried to do a similar tactic to me years ago. but they got paid commission. dunno if they still do or not, but i refuse to shop anywhere where where the sales guys make commission.:worried:


----------



## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

I had some Kicker RCA's that sh1t the bed with in two years and I also had some Stinger HPM RCA's that lasted for 4 years. So to me as long as you don't get the bottom end like the ones that are black and come bundeled with the yellow video cable you should be all set.


----------



## omegaslast (Nov 4, 2010)

Viggen said:


> A few months ago I went into a local home audio store & was talking to one of the sales people I know about something else (I forget what I needed for my HT)...... I asked him does it really matter cheap vs good RCA's???
> 
> He didn't respond..... took me into one of their demo rooms & compared a standard $50ish dollar set of RCA's to a $200 set. To say I was shocked ad the difference is a understatement. Same CD, song, amp, speakers etc the $200 set of RCA cables sounded great..... the cheap set sounded like a blanket was thrown over the speakers.... it was that muffled. I asked does balanced sound any better? He claimed that cheap balanced cables will sound that much better then the $200 RCA cables.......
> 
> So yea.... spend money on good RCA's


Yeah surprising how the mind thinks expensive things sound better... obviously it doesnt NORMALLY do this 

When the brain is told to notice a difference, it will, even when there is no difference. *objective fact*

‪The Truth About Bottled Water‬‏ - YouTube
‪Penn & Teller: ******** - Organic Taste Test‬‏ - YouTube

The consumers of today really need to figure out that your brain is not to be trusted. When youre plopping down $300 on some god damn cables think "okay, theres no objective measurement backing this up... i better be REALLY sure and do a double blind test to scientifically make sure im spending this $300 right"

if you dont, youre by definition a dumb consumer.


----------



## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

If only Billy Mayes were still alive......that man could sell anything.


----------



## Cancerkazoo (Jul 21, 2006)

I took 1st place in a local comp way back in the day 0-50watt class with these:








and got a perfect score in lack of system noise.

I think if there is noise, there is another problem that needs to be addressed.


----------



## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

how many volts did you have through them?

I agree about the noise, RCA's are not always the culprit. In my experience its the amps themselves. I've had several amps that produce hissing in the highs despite my direct to frame grounds, ~10 volt line drivers and triple shielded cables.
Slapped in a vpower Alpine amp from BB and absolutely no hissing. 
ATM i'm just using HU power, i sometimes hear an odd wave kinda sound. not sure if its the radio or not but i hear it when radio FM on sometimes.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Cancerkazoo said:


> I took 1st place in a local comp way back in the day 0-50watt class with these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only problem with those is that they won't last very long if someone is constantly plugging and unplugging them (very likely in car audio). Also any slight manufacturing error could cause the same holing issue, which is easily possible at that price range.

I use a set of Hosa CPR203 series at home which have similar cheap looking ends and I've literally plugged and unplugged the RCA side of those over 100 times and they still hold as tight as the first day. They also don't get much more budget then that price.


----------



## Cancerkazoo (Jul 21, 2006)

I'm not saying those are the recommended RCAs. Just showing high dollar ones are not as important as people may try to say.

Machined ends will hold up much better and any stranded wire will do.
I've used solid conductor ethernet in an interconnect just to see what the buzz was about a few years back and they sounded pretty much just like any other good RCA interconnect. But those may eventually crack in an automotive environment, but if all the cables were locked down well they would probably last a good long time also.


----------



## Cancerkazoo (Jul 21, 2006)

SoulFly said:


> how many volts did you have through them?
> 
> I agree about the noise, RCA's are not always the culprit. In my experience its the amps themselves. I've had several amps that produce hissing in the highs despite my direct to frame grounds, ~10 volt line drivers and triple shielded cables.
> Slapped in a vpower Alpine amp from BB and absolutely no hissing.
> ATM i'm just using HU power, i sometimes hear an odd wave kinda sound. not sure if its the radio or not but i hear it when radio FM on sometimes.


I think about 4v, as that was what was fairly standard in higher end decks in the early 90s


----------



## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

Now are there different types of material that provide a better connection for the actual end connectors? Is gold plated better than silver plated?


----------



## Cancerkazoo (Jul 21, 2006)

Ultimateherts said:


> Now are there different types of material that provide a better connection for the actual end connectors? Is gold plated better than silver plated?


Gold doesn't oxidize, that is why it is used for connections that might have issues with humidity or moisture.


----------



## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


>


i lolled


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Fricasseekid said:


> I think audio snobs are born with a brain deficiency that makes them incapable of understanding the law of diminishing returns.


THing is, it's not _diminishing_ returns so much as _nonexistent_ returns.



Viggen said:


> A few months ago I went into a local home audio store


Something was rigged if there was an actual huge difference.


----------



## sqcomp (Sep 21, 2009)

Cancerkazoo said:


> I took 1st place in a local comp way back in the day 0-50watt class with these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


^Exactly! I couldn't hear the difference between a $2 patch cable, my own hand made cables, and Stinger's most expensive cables that I use in my car.

What do I use? The expesive RCA's. Why? Because I'm supporting my local shop's products, and I have a warranty. That's all.


----------



## rommelrommel (Apr 11, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> THing is, it's not _diminishing_ returns so much as _nonexistent_ returns.


Well, it does give the return of making the purchaser feel superior to all of us idiots. :laugh:


----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

rommelrommel said:


> Well, it does give the return of making the purchaser feel superior to all of us idiots. :laugh:


Lol!


----------



## khanhfat (Feb 4, 2008)

There is a difference in different RCA types, but spending over $100 for a 1Meter pair is a bit wayyyy too much. 

My dad collects vintage audio stuff so he collected about 4 different pairs, some DIY some used but all are under 60$ pair. I and him demoed on a small simple budget system consist of AR-2AX (1973) speaker, Sansui 5050 receiver (1970s) , and a Teac Cd- player (1980s). All I can say is i'm a true believer, each of them has different characteristic that will changes the sound differently. Then we're all agree that the AR-2AX has a bit boomy bass so we swapped a DIY pair to replace the original cheap rebranded Esoteric i got from Ebay. After the swap, the vocal is more controled, bass is smoother and more pleasant to the ears. All equipment above are 200$ speakers, 80$ amp , 80$ Cd player , basic Knukonceptz speaker cable so we're not using hi-end stuff just to hear the difference in sound . 

I once had the Knukonceptz Krystal cable and then swapped it with Audison's Sonus. The difference is there, the clarity of the sound is better with the Audison . I can hear more detail on the top end and more natural midrange. 

Monoprice RCA is the one that is hard to beat, I demoed on my home system as well as from my computer 3.5mm jack to the amp. The sound quality is good, the sound that i hear is pleasant and no complaints for the performance/ price ratio. I will try a set in the car and see how it sounds. 

RCA cable isn't necessary a way improve your speaker's system SQ over the top but it's a way to fix some of the sound characteristic you don't like in your speakers or amps , such as boomy bass, harsh treble, narrow sound stage, clarity ... etc . . 

Many home audiophiles doesn't use EQ or processors so they tend to change different gear to match with the speakers they like (CD transport, DAC, Amp , Pre amp etc), that includes the process of swapping different RCAs and speaker cables to find the right match for the sound they think sounded best to their ears.


At the end, IMO RCAs does change the sound characteristic like what I have heard.


----------



## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

I think I pissed off my local shop. I was asking for a quote for installing equipment. I brought my speakers, amps and head unit. I told the guy I had everything with the exception of speaker wire. 

The second thing he asked me (after questioning my choice of JL HD amps) was about RCAs. I told him I have plenty of them in virtually all length to take care of the install. "But what kind are they" he asked. I responded that they were various from JL, Tsunami, Kicker, Phoenix Gold, and those 15 footers that were on the hot buy section way back. He was apalled that I would install high end equipment with just any old cables. I told him I did not believe there was a difference as long as they have decent ends that are tight (love those tight ends!), they are flexible enough, and they are the correct length. 

He went on to say he could hear differences in cables, and had corrected noise problems by switching cables to expensive sheilded versions. I called ******** and if he could tell the differences in cables then prove it with a double blind controlled test.

He also did not appreciate that I told him I did not believe amps sounded different that were not driven to clipping. And that I choose the JLs because of their size to power ratio with the limited real estate behind the seats. Of course he also had tales of huge differences with people who had swapped the HDs out for Audison I believe. I told him he should go take the RC challenge if he can heard differences in amps not clipped. 

Then I insulted his sensibilities that I told him I was not that impressed with the Morel speakers he was trying to sell me. 

It seems like a shop that wants $2K to install a system would not need to nickel and dime me with cables, but I am sure cables are a big mark up item so it makes sense.

Anyway they are not getting my money for expensive cables. I don't even care if they are the same brand.


----------



## c_nitty (May 17, 2010)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> For only $4.41 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 15ft Premium 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M 22AWG Cable - Black | 2-RCA Audio Cables


This is what I use sounds fine to me :laugh:


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

jimbno1 said:


> I think I pissed off my local shop. ***
> The second thing he asked me (after questioning my choice of JL HD amps)
> ***
> 
> ...


Seems to me you should pick a new shop. Not only do they not know what they're talking about, it doesn't seem like you've formed a good working relationship with them by showing them that you do know what you're talking about.

Don't be surprised if there are serious issues with the install, either because of incompetence or malice. (They obviously don't think you know what you're talking about, either. That they are wrong and you are right is immaterial when they have your property in their hands.)

Anyway they are not getting my money for expensive cables. I don't even care if they are the same brand.[/QUOTE]


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

The only reason I buy decent quality RCAs is to prevent the center pin from breaking off in the amp or the HU from repeated equipment swaps. Those are a royal pain to get OUT once broken off inside of a device.


----------



## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> Seems to me you should pick a new shop. Not only do they not know what they're talking about, it doesn't seem like you've formed a good working relationship with them by showing them that you do know what you're talking about.


Yeah I drive sales people crazy at electronics stores in general. An informed customer is not what they have been trained to deal with. 

When I finally got to talk to the actual installer he appeared very competent. The thing I really appreciated is that he never said he could not do something I suggested. He simply explained what he thought was a better solution and why he would suggest a different approach. But he was willing to entertain any approach I decided on. 100% different than the sales weasel I first talked to. I think the installer actually would do a very good job. 

I just can't quite wrap my mind around the $2k pricetag. It is probably fair. I may just get them to do the FG work. Do the sound deadening amd install the head unit and amps myself. 

Those Monoprice cables look really nice and very reasonable. I sent their link to my friend who is looking for some HDMI cables.


----------



## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

jimbno1 said:


> Yeah I drive sales people crazy at electronics stores in general. An informed customer is not what they have been trained to deal with.
> 
> When I finally got to talk to the actual installer he appeared very competent. The thing I really appreciated is that he never said he could not do something I suggested. He simply explained what he thought was a better solution and why he would suggest a different approach. But he was willing to entertain any approach I decided on. 100% different than the sales weasel I first talked to. I think the installer actually would do a very good job.
> 
> ...


you've got that backwards. do the fiberglass and have them do the $200 install. haha. you're not saving much by doing the regular install stuff.


----------

