# Connecting hi res players to Helix HD-usb HEC



## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

I found one post that hinted about this but I'm still a little unclear what works with the hd-usb hec.
Ive looked at Astell & Kern AK70 with the otg cable its pricey and not sure it will work. 
Also looked at the FiiO X5 v3 and I'm pretty sure that I can get that to work with the coax.
Has anyone connected a Hi-res DAP like the ones above thru the helix HD-usb HEC or will it only support the iPhone and camera kit or the Android based phone\tablet with otg cable.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

I have seen the fios connected with coax; as for the astell and kern ak70, never have used it, but I know u can connect android phones/tabs with otg cable, so I imagine this will work, but cant say for sure; When I ran the usb hec with my ipad I used the apple camera kit three


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

I am looking at the Fiio x5, and the website says that there will be a FW update to transfer USB audio coming out soon.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

i use the fiio x5iii into the helix dsp pro mk2 coax input


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## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

I think the X5 is the way I'll go. I know the coax works and if usb works later its a bonus. 
Tried really hard to get my Zapco DSP z8 IV only to find out they are sold out till next month. 
Kinda glad it was delayed or I wouldn't had found the Helix DSP.
How do you like yours Nick?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

geartech said:


> I think the X5 is the way I'll go. I know the coax works and if usb works later its a bonus.
> Tried really hard to get my Zapco DSP z8 IV only to find out they are sold out till next month.
> Kinda glad it was delayed or I wouldn't had found the Helix DSP.
> How do you like yours Nick?


I like it for what it is. Its not perfect by any means though (as with anything). But for under 450 (with a big ol' sd card) you get digital and balanced and 3.5mm out for an android based unit that can store thousands on thousands of songs (i have 13000 and my sd card isnt even close to full) and can play virtually every format. No brainer. That said, i have a second one thats hardly used that i'd be willing to sell if you want.


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## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

Yes please, let me know what you want for it. If you have a spare DSP I will take that Too:laugh:


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> i use the fiio x5iii into the helix dsp pro mk2 coax input




Nick, quick question here. I have personally never used the fiio. I checked the app store and it shows an app for fiio. My question is, are there anyway to connect a fiio to an ipad and control the fioo through the ipad. Basically like I am controlling my gs9 sources through the sony app. I would love to be able to mount the fiio out of sight and control it thru my ipad, basically switch source and change songs? Just wondering if there are anyway to do this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

gumbeelee said:


> Nick, quick question here. I have personally never used the fiio. I checked the app store and it shows an app for fiio. My question is, are there anyway to connect a fiio to an ipad and control the fioo through the ipad. Basically like I am controlling my gs9 sources through the sony app. I would love to be able to mount the fiio out of sight and control it thru my ipad, basically switch source and change songs? Just wondering if there are anyway to do this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think so and at first I was trying to find a way to do that but I gave up. Never heard of the fiio app

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> I don't think so and at first I was trying to find a way to do that but I gave up. Never heard of the fiio app
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk




The app is called fiio music for audiophiles. When I searched the app store it only comes up under iphone not ipad search...check it out, I believe its fiio that put the app out but not 100% sure.. there is something called fiio controller to, but I dont know about it


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

I downoladed both apps, on the fiio controller app even though the app description is in japanease u can choose english when u download it. After u open the app it says to connect your fiio to phone/tablet but i dont have a fiio so i could go no further with it; who knows might be able to control fiio from phone/tablet
The fiio for audiophile app i have not opened yet


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

It will be interesting to see if it works. At least I know it will work on the COAX SP-DIF line.
From what I read the usb audio is less susceptible to clock jitter so it might sound a little better connected to that.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

gumbeelee said:


> I downoladed both apps, on the fiio controller app even though the app description is in japanease u can choose english when u download it. After u open the app it says to connect your fiio to phone/tablet but i dont have a fiio so i could go no further with it; who knows might be able to control fiio from phone/tablet
> The fiio for audiophile app i have not opened yet
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Interesting.. 
Hmm wonder “which” Fiio?
I have an X5 2nd gen. 
So I imagine camera kit and micro USB cable?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

I think the FiiO X5 units will work with the USB OTG cable at some point from what I've read. Not sure about it yet though. 
Also the Astell & Kern AK70 has promise to work but its a bit more money and the USB OTG cable isn't out yet.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I have a Fiio x3 sitting right next to me... Let me know if you guys need me to test something.

*Btw, I the Fiio app is not yet available for Android*. Here is more info for iOS:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...f-fiio-music-ios-app-is-now-available.864698/


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DavidRam said:


> I have a Fiio x3 sitting right next to me... Let me know if you guys need me to test something.
> 
> *Btw, I the Fiio app is not yet available for Android*. Here is more info for iOS:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...f-fiio-music-ios-app-is-now-available.864698/


so is this just another music app for your phone, or does it make your phone or tablet act like a controller for your Fiio player?


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

geartech said:


> I found one post that hinted about this but I'm still a little unclear what works with the hd-usb hec.
> 
> Ive looked at Astell & Kern AK70 with the otg cable its pricey and not sure it will work.
> Also looked at the FiiO X5 v3 and I'm pretty sure that I can get that to work with the coax.
> ...


Unless you find others to verify which devices are able to do this, you would probably have to test this yourself and be the guinea pig.

If you want to use a DAP for BOTH in-car use AND portable or home music listening (i.e. jogging, at the gym, or private listening at home with headphones or IEMs) I can understand your desire to use a DAP as your playback device connected to your car audio DSP.

But if you mainly want to use the DAP as your music source for listening only in the car, AND you want it to be connected to your Helix DSP via USB HEC, I think you'd be better off with an Android tablet or a larger smartphone that has a better touchscreen, removable microSD storage, with the USB Audio Player Pro app installed, and/or the option of using a wide variety of other music playing apps.

When connecting any DAP to the Helix DSP Pro via the HEC USB input, you'd basically be bypassing and wasting the functions of the DAP's internal DAC and its analog output section. The same would be true if you connect the DAP to the DSP via its Digital Coaxial or Optical output.

Using the *UAPP* app on most Android devices will also allow you to stream Spotify, Qobuz, TIDAL Hi-Fi, etc. As with any music player app, or a particular DAP's user interface, you may like it or not, and it can depend on which device the app is used on.

As an example, I use my Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0" 4G SmartPhone/Tablet to connect to the Helix DSP PRO with the USB HEC module via USB and OTG adapter/cable, and this works really well and sounds fantastic when using the UAPP app.

The Galaxy Tab S2 8.0 has a big, bright, high-res display...most DAPs do not. In addition, you will find that EVERY DAP on the market has a UI that is way more laggy than your typical iOS or Android smartphone or tablet.

I also use my iBasso DX200 DAP as my music playback source while it is hidden away in the center console, and can control it wirelessly from my Galaxy Tab S2 8.0. I have the option to connect the DX200 DAP to the Helix DSP Pro via Coaxial Digital, Optical Digital, or the excellent unbalanced or balanced Analog Line Output...



gumbeelee said:


> Nick, quick question here. I have personally never used the fiio. I checked the app store and it shows an app for fiio. My question is, are there anyway to connect a fiio to an ipad and control the fioo through the ipad. Basically like I am controlling my gs9 sources through the sony app. I would love to be able to mount the fiio out of sight and control it thru my ipad, basically switch source and change songs? Just wondering if there are anyway to do this.


...To somewhat address the above... I can use the Android *TeamViewer* app to control and navigate playback of the hidden away iBasso DX200 DAP using the larger screen of my Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0 (as demonstrated by someone else in the video below)...






I haven't tried this with a FiiO or any other DAP, but it _should_ work for any Android-based device as long as the DAP that you choose has wireless capability built-in.

There are also several Bluetooth remotes that allow you to control basic playback functions & volume level of your DAP, Android device, or iOS device as long as it has Bluetooth and is A2DP compatible. FiiO makes an inexpensive remote that will mount to your steering wheel... The FiiO RM1.

Also, if you are considering a new DAP purchase, you might want to take a look at the *Hiby R6* that will soon be released. It is one of the only DAPs to use a truly powerful CPU chip, which makes it one of the fastest DAP UI's available.

Hiby is the OEM developer for the stock music player software on several other DAP brands, and they've also had their very well-received Hiby Music Player app available for Android for quite some time. Cheesy manufacturer's video...






Good pre-release review which mentions that you *should* be able to connect the Hiby R6 via USB to an outboard DAC, i.e. the Helix DSP Pro that has a USB HEC module...






*Indiegogo Hiby R6 Crowdfunding Page*

.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> so is this just another music app for your phone, or does it make your phone or tablet act like a controller for your Fiio player?


Not sure, I didn't read much of the info as I don't have iOS...


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

gumbeelee said:


> Nick, quick question here. I have personally never used the fiio. I checked the app store and it shows an app for fiio. My question is, are there anyway to connect a fiio to an ipad and control the fioo through the ipad. Basically like I am controlling my gs9 sources through the sony app.* I would love to be able to mount the fiio out of sight and control it thru my ipad, basically switch source and change songs? Just wondering if there are anyway to do this.*


Maybe not with a *FiiO* DAP and *iPad* specifically, BUT YES with this even smaller upcoming Android-based DAP by Hiby that will be priced under $250 and launched on Kickstarter soon. "Hiby Link" and/or DLNA allows the remote control of this device as seen in the video...

*HiBy R3: Upcoming Tidal-capable ultracompact music player - Under $250*

"Little Brother" to the Hiby R6 DAP
Tidal HiFi Streaming Capable (other services might be added later)
Big Touchscreen (on a palm-sized device)
*Bi-Directional USB*** and Bluetooth Apt-X!!!
DLNA Support
"Hiby Link" Service
One MicroSD card slot (currently up to 400GB)
Under $250 (watch for Kickstarter campaign)
Single ESS Sabre ES9028Q2M DAC (capable of 129dB Dynamic Range)
1 Ohm impedance Headphone Output (for full compatibility with all Hi-End IEMs)
Balanced & SE HP Output (Output Power in mW unknown at this time)
Balanced & SE HP Output: 2.2 Vrms & 1.1 Vrms respectively (HP out used as Line Out)
10 Hours Playback Time on Full Charge
60 Days of Standby on Full Charge
Digital Coaxial Output via special USB port adapter
No Built-in Memory/Storage. Use MicroSD for music file storage.

**You should be able to connect this DAP via USB directly to your Helix DSP Pro/MK II with the USB HEC module..







Here's another video showing a similar "remote" set up using the Hiby Player app/Hiby Link on a Cayin N3 DAP and Samsung Galaxy Note 4 smartphone...


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm sub'ng for now, will read later and see if I have questions or anything constructive to add. 

I have the FiiO X5iii that I connect via coax to the Helix DSP Proii.....and have contemplated connecting via USB/HEC if FiiO gets the USB out implemented.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

bertholomey said:


> I'm sub'ng for now, will read later and see if I have questions or anything constructive to add.
> 
> I have the FiiO X5iii that I connect via coax to the Helix DSP Proii.....and have contemplated connecting via USB/HEC if FiiO gets the USB out implemented.


Thanks Jason. It'd be interesting to hear your thoughts since you've had the FiiO X5iii/Helix DSP PRO MKII combo for some time now.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

The Fiio X5 3rd gen firmware upgrade will need to drop first before he can stream USB. I can confirm SPDIF works like a champ though. 

And I can confirm the difference between USB HEC via iPhone camera adapter vs Fiio SPDIF coax is pretty much indistinguishable. Both work very well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Babs said:


> *The Fiio X5 3rd gen firmware upgrade will need to drop first before he [bertholomey] can stream USB.* I can confirm SPDIF works like a champ though.
> 
> And I can confirm the difference between USB HEC via iPhone camera adapter vs Fiio SPDIF coax is pretty much indistinguishable. Both work very well.



RE: Bold text above. Understood. 

Good to know about the iPhone via CCK3/USB vs. FiiO Coaxial, Scott.  Thanks!


I asked Joe from Hiby some questions regarding the upcoming R3 DAP. (Interesting note: "Joe" Joseph Yeung was formerly @ FiiO).

+Hiby Music 

Looks awesome, Joe!

A few questions:

1. Will the R3 have either a Balanced or S-E LINE Output???

2. Will the R3 have a Digital Optical or Coaxial Output?

3. Does it have any internal, Built-In Storage for music files?

Thanks!﻿
bbfoto


His Reply:

Hello bbfoto,

Thank you for your interest! Here are the answers:

1. Not particularly but it is certainly possible to use either headphone out as a line out. Our boss has been using the R3 in connection to his speaker rig at the office with great results 

2. The USB output will be able to double as a Digital Coaxial Output with a special adapter cable and the Coaxial mode enabled on the R3.

3. It depends on the micro SD card you insert for storage.

Best regards,
HiBy Music﻿


So no true Line Out. But it has a Balanced & Unbalanced HP output. In this circumstance you typically set the HP output volume to Max to use as a "Line Out" and it typically is in the ~2Vrms range. But I'll ask as this is a smaller DAP that I think is made more for driving earbuds/IEMs and not full size headphones. This obviously isn't ideal as the signal path is routed through the HP Amp stage, and not a true, fixed, Line Out circuit. But HP output impedance is very low @ 1-Ohm.

EDIT: When used as a Line Output, Balanced & SE HP Output is 2.2 Vrms & 1.1 Vrms respectively.

Great to know there will be Coaxial Digital Output via a USB adapter.

Also looks like there may be No Internal Storage....just what is available on the MicroSD card that you use. A bit disappointing, but at this price point something has to give.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

bbfoto said:


> Thanks Jason. It'd be interesting to hear your thoughts since you've had the FiiO X5iii/Helix DSP PRO MKII combo for some time now.





Babs said:


> The Fiio X5 3rd gen firmware upgrade will need to drop first before he can stream USB. I can confirm SPDIF works like a champ though.
> 
> And I can confirm the difference between USB HEC via iPhone camera adapter vs Fiio SPDIF coax is pretty much indistinguishable. Both work very well.


So - coax out of the FiiO into the Helix is excellent - no hiccups with connection - I use the volume control from the Director, so no issues there. 

I can also echo what Babs stated above - tracks on my iPhone played through the camera adapter into the USB/HEC versus the FiiO via coax really is dead even....I think, to my ears, and to the level of resolution in my system (other cars may have a better set up so these differences are more audible) - I think you have to really 'want' one to sound better/different than the other. 

So, if the FiiO never does provide USB output.....or if it is fiddly.....then I'll stay with the coax connection and have the USB connection as an option for guys wanting to demo from their phones.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

bertholomey said:


> So - coax out of the FiiO into the Helix is excellent - no hiccups with connection - I use the volume control from the Director, so no issues there.
> 
> I can also echo what Babs stated above - tracks on my iPhone played through the camera adapter into the USB/HEC versus the FiiO via coax really is dead even....I think, to my ears, and to the level of resolution in my system (other cars may have a better set up so these differences are more audible) - I think you have to really 'want' one to sound better/different than the other.
> 
> So, if the FiiO never does provide USB output.....or if it is fiddly.....then I'll stay with the coax connection and have the USB connection as an option for guys wanting to demo from their phones.


exactly what i experienced in my car with the same source/dsp setup


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

bertholomey said:


> So - coax out of the FiiO into the Helix is excellent - no hiccups with connection - I use the volume control from the Director, so no issues there.
> 
> I can also echo what Babs stated above - tracks on my iPhone played through the camera adapter into the USB/HEC versus the FiiO via coax really is dead even....I think, to my ears, and to the level of resolution in my system (other cars may have a better set up so these differences are more audible) - I think you have to really 'want' one to sound better/different than the other.
> 
> So, if the FiiO never does provide USB output.....or if it is fiddly.....then I'll stay with the coax connection and have the USB connection as an option for guys wanting to demo from their phones.



Jason, great information! With a DAP I think that it's easiest to use the digital coaxial output (or optical) into the Helix processors, as you are doing now. That also allows you to easily charge the DAP at the same time if needed, though the cable/wire mess might get a bit cumbersome.

That's why I kind of like wirelessly controlling my hidden away iBasso DX200 with the larger screen of the Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0". I can keep all of the wiring hidden away with the DAP in the center console and have the 8" tablet cleanly mounted in the dash. The wireless control is slightly "laggy" but doesn't bother me. Volume is handled via a custom "URC" remote for the Helix, or the Director remote.


With either of the new Hiby R3 or R6 DAPs you'd be able to do a similar remote setup if your "control" device was an Android smartphone or tablet, and it seems very fast/no lag. I've read where some have tried to use the Hiby Link Android app to do this on the FiiO X5iii/X7ii, but it didn't work for some reason, though technically it should.

The Hiby Music Player app is really nice as well. One thing that I really like is that it has a small icon next to each track to show if the file is Hi-Res, DSD, or standard 16/44. This really helps if you have multiple versions of the same album in different formats, and/or if you just want to make sure that you are playing a certain type of file.


Since I'm not using iPads anymore I don't know if there is a similar iOS remote control app that will work in a similar fashion?



But overall, I prefer the simplicity and setup of going straight from my Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0" phablet via USB OTG adapter into the Helix using the HEC USB module. The Tab S2 8.0 has a MicroSD slot so you can have up to a 400GB card installed.

I really like the GUI & functionality of the Android UAPP app on this particular phablet. But depending on the Android device that the UAPP app is used on, in addition to personal preference, some may not like this setup or the UI.

As a reference, the Samsung phablet is basically identical in size to an iPad Mini. The size of the screen and the UAPP app's simple gesture control make it a breeze to navigate, not to mention having Google voice control.

This Phablet is cell phone/4G data capable as well, so I can use it for Google Maps/Nav, Internet, or any type of streaming service. It also has Apt-X BT connection if needed. The screen is big, bright, and hi-res SuperAMOLED. And overall the USB connection to the Helix sounds pretty spectacular to me. 


Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0 stock photo/stock Android home screen.











The UAPP app Main Screen (in Landscape Orientation).
Tap the Large Album Art to Pause/Play. Swipe L/R to advance to the next track, or go back one track at a time...
or Tap whatever Track you want to Play from the List on the Left.
The 3 Dots next to the Track Length for Each Track opens a Pop-Up Menu that allows
you to Add or Remove that track to or from a Playlist or Queue, View Metadata, Show
All Albums by that Artist, etc.
When Playback is PAUSED, Swipe L/R to get to Artists, Albums, Tracks, Genres, Playlists, etc. A Search Bar is at the Top of Each of these "pages".
If you "Tap & Hold" on the Track Names you can drag them to RE-ARRANGE them into
ANY Playback ORDER that you want. 
(Note that in the screenshot below that Track 10 is Between Track 8 and Track 9.) You
can also do this with all of the tracks in your Playlists.









USB OTG/Hub adapter that allows simultaneous charging. The OTG Adapter/Hub is tucked away in the dash but easily accessible for media swapping:










Here's a Link to a Size comparison of the Galaxy Tab S2 8.0 (click on the blue "View Side by Side" icon at the top left of the page):

*Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0 Size Comparison*


It's amazing that we have all of these options that weren't available even 5 years ago, but it also adds complexity, indecision, and requires more trial-&-error testing! Good times!

.


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## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

Wow this thread has turned into a wealth of knowledge, I've gotten more out of this than I can even begin to thank every one for.

I've got a Samsung tablet as well that I might just use along with the FiiO X5 with the OTG cable for comparison. 
Can't wait to get the install done now.
Been stuck listening to mp3 files for the moment and after hearing the difference between them and hi-res it's hard to listen to them.


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## ChaseUTB (Mar 28, 2018)

I have a USB port in my center console, will the usb hd audio connect to that so when I plug in my phone for playback the phone output goes thru the Helix processing? I figure this is a higher quality connection for file playback then the Bluetooth card module & BT streaming via Iphone. This DSP + director + usb hd audio module starting to get pricey lol Do I need the Apple adapter?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

ChaseUTB said:


> I have a USB port in my center console, will the usb hd audio connect to that so when I plug in my phone for playback the phone output goes thru the Helix processing? I figure this is a higher quality connection for file playback then the Bluetooth card module & BT streaming via Iphone. This DSP + director + usb hd audio module starting to get pricey lol Do I need the Apple adapter?


You would have to get nifty and make it so that USB port goes to the helix input. And yes, it would be better than bluetooth for playback. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

ChaseUTB said:


> I have a USB port in my center console, will the usb hd audio connect to that so when I plug in my phone for playback the phone output goes thru the Helix processing? I figure this is a higher quality connection for file playback then the Bluetooth card module & BT streaming via Iphone. This DSP + director + usb hd audio module starting to get pricey lol Do I need the Apple adapter?


As Nick said, the OEM USB port in your center console would have to be rerouted and adapted to the Helix USB HEC's female mini-USB input. Usually these OEM USB ports have a Molex-type connector on the back side, so you'd have to do some hard-wiring and soldering.

And Yes, to use iPhone or iPad as your source into the HEC USB module you need the Apple CCK3. It's a good idea to get a short 3ft Lightning Extension Cable so that the bulk of the CCK3 dongle isn't right at the bottom of your phone. You connect a second Lighting cable into the CCK3 dongle for charging, so the extension cable helps to keep that out of the way as well, otherwise you'll have the Dongle AND Two Lightning cables coming out of the bottom of your iPhone or iPad. 

And Yes, the direct USB connection to the Helix HEC USB is about the most direct and best connection you could have, and will be better than BT streaming and allow for true Hi-Res file playback. It's basically the same thing as connecting a USB Audio Recording Interface directly to your Mac or Windows PC.

For what it is and does, I think the Helix setup with the Director and HEC module is a bargain. There's A LOT of power and features in this single box. In comparison, it's a lot cheaper than most any single-function piece of outboard studio rack gear, such as an Emperical Labs Distressor, Neve 1073, Fairchild, or any really good tube condensor vocal mic. I guess if you're completely ITB and just using the included plug-ins, then maybe it seems a bit expensive, but even the good independent plug packages are $$$.


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