# So where do you even download music anymore?



## Jscoyne2

I mean legally. Whats the best place now that there is 1000 diff music services.


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## diy.phil

I just buy it on amazon


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## Ziggyrama

I've been buying at Amazon but their best encoding is mp3 320. Now that I have flac support on my HU, I am switching to HDTracks.com which offers multiple lossless formats. I listen to metal, and surprisingly they do have most groups I listen to.

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## j4gates

If you have Prime, you can download a lot for free while streaming. Not the best way to buy what you want, but opens up your aperture to new stuff.


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## naiku

j4gates said:


> If you have Prime, you can download a lot for free while streaming. Not the best way to buy what you want, but opens up your aperture to new stuff.


I have not looked at music on Amazon for a while, but is it still the case where if you buy the CD you get a free download? Last time I did that it was cheaper to buy the CD than the digital copy.


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## subterFUSE

I still buy music on CD mostly, and rip them myself using XLD.


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## benny z

CDs of stuff I really want a hard copy of, which I rip to .wav for digital storage and playback. You'd be surprised what you can find on CD at your local pawn shops...for dirt cheap...

HDtracks.com if I'm buying high res.

But I'm mostly listening to Apple Music if I'm driving.


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## DC/Hertz

Spoify. Any album you would ever want. You can stream or download at 320. $9 a month


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## nineball76

I still prefer to buy physical cds, but if there's something worthwhile on hdtracks I go that route too. Lately I've been test driving many albums first thru Spotify downloads. CD still remains king for me though. 

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## DC/Hertz

Not joking. 
The dollar store has a pretty good older CD collection for cheap. Mostly stuff you can only find online


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## DavidRam

I am beginning to compile quite a collection from HDTracks. When they don't have the album I want, I buy the CD and rip it...


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## Alrojoca

Tower Records and the warehouse


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## nineball76

Might also check artists websites. Several have started selling downloads and some even sell high res downloads. I know Nine Inch Nails had done it, and Metallica has all their stuff in mostly 24/96 on their website. 

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## nineball76

Anyone wanting to try out hdtracks and is into jazz, here you go 









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## DavidRam

Here are some FREE high res samples from HDTracks:

HDtracks Presents: The Sound of the Future | HDtracks - The World's Greatest-Sounding Music Downloads


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## PPI_GUY

I have an enormous collection of CD's but, with so many remasters out there, I always second guess whether I'm ripping the 'right' version. My OCD again.


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## nineball76

PPI_GUY said:


> I have an enormous collection of CD's but, with so many remasters out there, I always second guess whether I'm ripping the 'right' version. My OCD again.


I have 4 different versions of Appetite for Destruction. So far. The Japan release is the best, even better than the Gold MFSL remaster. 

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## Alrojoca

Local used CD stores. 
There might be some around in your town.


The industry totally changed and continues to change. 

In the old days, we gambled buying music, specially if we do not listen to much pop music.

Sometimes we scored sometimes we lost. Even if we like some artist, not all their albums are worth owning. I don't spend one cent on pop music, simply because unless it's a demo track, I get bored fast or loose interest maybe due to the pop music compression and loudness wars. I let my kids spend their money on CDs and if I hear something I think it's worth having, they let me download it.


Today with you tube and music sites, we discover new artists, new talent , and explore more, or at least me, rather than being stucked in the past liking only old music.

Then now with the internet we buy what we want, without wasting money or gambling because we will know what we are getting.


Streaming is the trend, it is convenient, like having a personal DJ, saves time.

When I analyze the time it takes me to put a cd in my laptop then, make a playlist or copy files write/ name folders etc, it is a PITA, Time consuming.

And honestly I don't think apple for example is going to make it easier, the iTunes software used to be way more easier and user friendly, they tend to add things that we don't need, new language, new logos and take more time to learn it all over again once you click on that update. Same goes for many other things, unless you ar willing to put up with those 10 second commercials or press the skip button if available they won't make it easier for you and in one way or another we pay for their adds or they make us pay with our time.


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## j4gates

naiku said:


> I have not looked at music on Amazon for a while, but is it still the case where if you buy the CD you get a free download? Last time I did that it was cheaper to buy the CD than the digital copy.


Yes...for most of the ones I have looked at you get the free digital copy with the CD purchase. And yes, it's usually cheaper to buy the CD with the free download than buy the download alone. There are some CDs, though, that don't offer the download. I've never bought the standalone downloads, but they may be able to be used outside of the Prime Music app...that would be my guess for the added expense. But like I said earlier, most of what I get from Amazon is downloaded for free after hearing it on a stream. The albums I did buy weren't available for free through Prime - my 5 year old and 3 year old love Michael Jackson, but they don't have much available via Prime.


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## mmiller

DC/Hertz said:


> Spoify. Any album you would ever want. You can stream or download at 320. $9 a month


This is what I use too. I'm a diehard CD guy, buy my car doesn't even have a disk spinner, which sucks, but whatever. I'm happy with Spotify for $9.00 a month it's not even worth the time searching for free stuff. To me anyways.


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## Jscoyne2

mmiller said:


> This is what I use too. I'm a diehard CD guy, buy my car doesn't even have a disk spinner, which sucks, but whatever. I'm happy with Spotify for $9.00 a month it's not even worth the time searching for free stuff. To me anyways.


What about tidal, i ask because i know tidal bypasses phone Dacs thru usb. Does spotify? 

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## Ziggyrama

Jscoyne2 said:


> What about tidal, i ask because i know tidal bypasses phone Dacs thru usb. Does spotify?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


Can you explain more about DAC bypass? Does the HU have a tidal endpoint that receives the digital signal over USB and uses it's DAC to convert to analog?

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## Crazychile

Jscoyne2 said:


> What about tidal, i ask because i know tidal bypasses phone Dacs thru usb. Does spotify?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


I use Tidal and really like it. It's not as cheap as the others but everything is LOSSLESS. I dumped Spotify Premium more than a year ago and never looked back.

I have an old iPhone 4S and just plug it into my USB input on my head unit. It sounds really good.


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## Dan750iL

I get CDs from Amazon and rip them myself. Thanks to this thread I am going to check for shops with used CDs.


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## Jscoyne2

Ziggyrama said:


> Can you explain more about DAC bypass? Does the HU have a tidal endpoint that receives the digital signal over USB and uses it's DAC to convert to analog?
> 
> Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


Basically from what i know. The aux cord will use the devices dacs so you want to go the usb route. The 80prs has native support for I-devices. Somewhere in the 80prs manual it says that when using an i device thru the usb. The 80prs bypasses the devices dacs in favor of its own. 


Unfortunately this isnt true for android devices 
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## subterFUSE

Forgot to mention that I also purchase a lot of AIFF files from a site called Beatport.

These are all single tracks, not albums. I use these tracks for DJing, and making my own mix compilations.


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## Hillbilly SQ

I need to start checking out shops with used cd's. As long as they give a clean rip for my digital storage that's all I care about. We were discussing one artist at the NCSQ meet and I have a little prank in mind. If anyone is gonna do it it's me or Erin, lol. Seems like the most cost effective way to legally expand my basically stagnated collection.


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## Alrojoca

Nothing like owning a hard copy. I remember like over 10 years ago I could pick up almost any vinyl records for a dollar or less. Now maybe because they have come back or maybe inflation not so much

We have good will and Salvation Army around here, someone else's junk may be your treasure, I see CDs all the time, maybe at least some Christmas music unless we get lucky to find something good a few times.


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## bbfoto

I still buy a lot of CDs and Rip them to Lossless formats. For physical CDs it's usually Amazon, eBay/Half.com, or Discogs.com for unique or rare titles.

TIDAL HiFi is probably the best overall for a quality streaming service, but you pay for it. They do offer exclusive content and concert tickets, along with some other perks. However, your network setup and playback device's OS resources can really affect the SQ by a noticeable margin. I have Qobuz as well, which is a similar service for the European market. The difference is that Qobuz offers actual Downloads in addition to streaming.

FYI, Jay-Z and a "small group" of other major pop artists own TIDAL, along with Sprint Mobile now owning 33%. And recently Jay-Z removed all of his music and the music on his label from Apple Music/iTunes. :surprised:

Yeah, Beatport is really good for Dance/Club/DJ music.

BandCamp! You'd be surprised how many big name artists are offering their music on Bandcamp. Check it out. There are all types of genres and artists there from big names to small Indie bands and singer/songwriters. And check SoundCloud as well.

Another site that has some unique and exclusive releases by big names and small indie's as well is PledgeMusic. It's kind of like a KickStarter for new album releases. The artists sometimes offer signed CDs, LPs, T-Shirts, a guitar or other instrument that was used on the recordings, and even private in-your-home performances.

Record Labels. Quite a few of the genre-specific or specialty Record Labels are offering Direct Downloads of their artist roster as well, and quite a few have Hi-Res, especially in the Jazz and Classical genres...

Check out Native DSD, Outhere Music, Sound Liaison, Hyperion Records, Blue Coast Records, Linn Records, Acoustic Sounds Super HiRez, iTrax, ProStudio Masters, The Classical Shop, Bowers & Wilkins Society of Sound...


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## ca90ss

I buy CDs at the thrift store as well. At 4 for $1 I don't mind taking a chance on stuff I'm not sure about and occasionally find SACD and DVD-A discs.


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## HardCoreDore

naiku said:


> I have not looked at music on Amazon for a while, but is it still the case where if you buy the CD you get a free download? Last time I did that it was cheaper to buy the CD than the digital copy.


Some of Amazon's physical media comes with an automatic mp3 or WAV download option called "AutoRip". It's not available on every album but it is available on most, a dije someone else mentioned usually physical media is cheaper than buying the virtual version for some reason. That may not be the case if you include taxes, but I usually qualify for free shipping when I order, b/c I buy enough to qualify for it. I've considered an upgrade to Prime on a couple of occasions, I just can't justify the cost. I don't order enough from them. It is a great deal though if you do... 

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## bbfoto

HardCoreDore said:


> Some of Amazon's physical media comes with an automatic mp3 or WAV download option called "AutoRip". It's not available on every album but it is available on most, a dije someone else mentioned usually physical media is cheaper than buying the virtual version for some reason. That may not be the case if you include taxes, but I usually qualify for free shipping when I order, b/c I buy enough to qualify for it. I've considered an upgrade to Prime on a couple of occasions, I just can't justify the cost. I don't order enough from them. It is a great deal though if you do...


Amazon does not offer full CD resolution (16 bit, 44.1khz Lossless Uncompressed) WAV music files using their download service, and that includes their "Autorip" files which are included for FREE on usually just the more popular titles that they already offer in their MP3 Download database.

From the Amazon Music Download FAQ:

"Amazon MP3 Store - Digital Music Format:

The Amazon MP3 Store delivers music in MP3 format-the most widely compatible music file format supported by most media player applications, hand-held music devices, and some CD and DVD players. Here's more information about music files from the Amazon MP3 Store:

*Bit Rate: Where possible, we encode our MP3 files using Variable Bit Rates for optimal audio quality and File Sizes, aiming at an average of 256 kilobits per second (kbps). Using a variable bit rate allows us to allocate a higher bit rate to the more complex sections of music files while using a smaller bit rate for the less complex sections. The average of these rates is then calculated to produce an average bit rate for the entire file that represents the overall sound quality. Some of our content is encoded using a constant bit rate of 256 kbps. This content will have the same excellent audio quality at a slightly larger file size.

*File Size: A typical 3-minute song takes up approximately 5MB of storage space. 

*Download Times: A single MP3 file 5MB in size will download in less than one minute on a typical broad-band Internet connection. A similar download on a 56k dial-up connection can take up to 30 minutes. 

*Album Cover Art: Album cover art is included with each song you purchase.

*Lyrics: At this time, lyrics are not available for Amazon MP3s."

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In testing, the Lossy, compressed AAC format (.m4a) is superior to the same file in MP3 format when encoded at the same bit rate. So in general, a 256kbps CBR AAC file will be equal to or slightly better quality than the same file encoded at 320kbps CBR MP3, etc.

However, MP3 is a slightly more "universal" or cross-platform and device compatible format.

Below, I'm again quoting, but slightly editing, a few posts by "Skaynan" from the Amazon Music Forums because I'm lazy and I don't want to re-type all the information myself...

Skaynan says:

"The quality of compressed audio (MP3, AAC, etc) depends on many different aspects, not only the bit rate. If you dig deep enough in any software that compresses to these formats (except maybe iTunes) you'll see that even if you pick the Highest Bitrate (320kbs), there are many Settings for Encoding Quality that can be adjusted, such as CBR (Constant Bit Rate) and VBR (Variable Bitrate), in addition to LPF & HPF settings, and possibly more. Typically, of course, the higher the encoding quality, the slower the process. Very high quality settings take longer to process, but the result sounds much better. Hence "256kbps" or "320kbps" only tells half the story when it comes to quality. 

Another factor in consideration is the way the CD was "Ripped". That is, if you "Rip" a CD using, say, iTunes, you might get a slightly different result than if you rip it with EAC due to error correction and if the file is checked against the "AccurateRip" database. (if you are interested in WHY is it different, check out Exact Audio Copy)

I really have no idea what the Amazon or iTunes store use for Ripping/Encoding, but one thing is for sure, the Quality IMO is not as good as it should be, and it's not because of the generaly-accepted Bitrate. I suspect it's because they use fast ripping/encoding with sub-par encoding settings...after all, they have to convert A LOT of music, so it's understandable.

VBR means that the Bitrate is Dynamicaly Changed according to the recorded material. In more musically-complex parts of the song the bit rate will be higher, but when there are simple, quiet passages the bit rate can be reduced and still maintain the level of quality. This slightly reduces the overall file size while supposedly maintaining consistent audio quality throughout the track. It's not necessarily a bad idea, but again, its quality is very highly dependent on the algorithm and quality settings. A high quality VBR encoding takes much longer then a high quality CBR decoding, and since most people don't bother to change the default encoding settings (which are avarage quality, not highest), hence the bad rep of VBR.

Also note that the Decoding of VBR files typically takes More Resources from the Audio Player involved, and in some cases the Decoding of VBR by the Music Playing Device also makes a difference in quality. For instance, an identical VBR file might sound different on an iPhone than in VLC playback software that's on your computer. That's something that doesn't happen with CBR."

Just some extra information to digest, but I encourage each person to do their own research as digital audio can be a very complex and confusing topic when trying to extract the details that matter.


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## sesshin

I get a bunch of free wav files and 320 mp3s from soundcloud. The streaming quality itself isn't high-res, but if you download the file its in the resolution it was uploaded at, which is usually high.


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## ARCuhTEK

I have not started my journey into lossless in terms of ripping anything or downloading HD files. But I can say that I love Spotify Premium. For me, there is a market for both. Some days you just want that song and you want it quickly. Some days you want to digest the song and the instruments and in our cases, you want to really see what your set up can do... Most days, I like being able to lave my desk and get in my car and my current listening automatically spin up on my head unit. That is a hard to beat feature. I supposed carrying your Fiio from your desk to your head unit is similar, except for the fact that you are toting...


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## DavidRam

ARCuhTEK said:


> I have not started my journey into lossless in terms of ripping anything or downloading HD files. But I can say that I love Spotify Premium. For me, there is a market for both. Some days you just want that song and you want it quickly. Some days you want to digest the song and the instruments and in our cases, you want to really see what your set up can do... Most days, I like being able to lave my desk and get in my car and my current listening automatically spin up on my head unit. That is a hard to beat feature. I supposed carrying your Fiio from your desk to your head unit is similar, except for the fact that you are toting...


It's a lot of fun! I'm building quite a library from HDTracks, I think it is addictive... The Fiio's sound quality is incredible with hi-res stuff, a good set of headphones, a DAC and a headphone amp! 
Like you said, run it out to the car and keep the tunes rolling for the drive.


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## grinkeeper

I am still basically a filthy thief as I steal lots of audio from any online source I can find. Usually very easy to find whole albums by searching the title and adding a suffix like .zip .rar and if I don’t find it the search usually leads me to something else interesting to pilfer


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## Ziggyrama

grinkeeper said:


> I am still basically a filthy thief as I steal lots of audio from any online source I can find. Usually very easy to find whole albums by searching the title and adding a suffix like .zip .rar and if I don’t find it the search usually leads me to something else interesting to pilfer


I am very curious, how do you justify doing this? I honestly curious about that.

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## subterFUSE

I will never download music from the internet sites like torrents, but the main reason is because you don't know where the music is coming from or what the true quality is.

It's kinda like banging a prostitute. Who knows where she's been or what kind of viruses you might pick up. 


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## sesshin

subterFUSE said:


> I will never download music from the internet sites like torrents, but the main reason is because you don't know where the music is coming from or what the true quality is.
> 
> It's kinda like banging a prostitute. Who knows where she's been or what kind of viruses you might pick up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Torrents are sketchy because your IP address is exposed and you can get notices from your provider if you download too much, BUT, I have had really good luck finding a wide variety of recordings all uploaded in 320 and FLAC format and labeled as such on torrent sites. 

Another option is using Usenet to illegally download files, which has a more limited music selection and is more difficult to use, but is private and secure.


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## HardCoreDore

sesshin said:


> Torrents are sketchy because your IP address is exposed and you can get notices from your provider if you download too much, BUT, I have had really good luck finding a wide variety of recordings all uploaded in 320 and FLAC format and labeled as such on torrent sites.
> 
> Another option is using Usenet to illegally download files, which has a more limited music selection and is more difficult to use, but is private and secure.


Torrents are SO yesterday's news...  any good pirate goes direct download nowadays. ARRRR!!!!  

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## subterFUSE

Just because it's posted in FLAC doesn't mean it was ripped properly. Hell, it could be a 128k MP3 converted to FLAC for all we know.


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