# 4 Channel High power Boat Tower Speaker AMP



## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

I need to get a new AMP to push the tower speakers on Boat. I need to hear it at 80' out with wind blasting by at 24Mph

I have MB Quart Component RWE 160 's in each of the 4 tower speakers. I need to push these things. These are 4ohm speakers
I have gone through two ED Nine 2.x amps. I have been running the speakers in Parallel, to get to 2 x 2ohm. I am not sure if I was pushing the amps too hard or if heat has killed both. 1st amp was replaced under warranty, 2nd one I have not bothered with.
edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?products_id=47

I think next amp is should be a high power 4 channel so that each speaker is running at its native 4ohm by itself.

I do not need new or SQ type amp. I want power and am willing to buy used or re-conditioned. 
I have read 
diymobileaudio.com/forum/product-selection-comparisons/57422-high-power-4-channel-amp-suggestions.html
and I keep leaning to a Planet Audio BB4.150 

Is that my best option? My budget is less than $200, but I would like to be around $100 due to the fact that I have already gone through 2 amps. Is my budget a pipe dream?


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

those speakers are rated at 60rms, so any 4x75rms amp will be plenty for them. not sure why you are burning through amps but maybe you should look at a marine amp instead of a conventional.


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## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

Thank you for the reply, my understanding is that they are rated *Power Range: 60 -130 Watts * So maybe I need to look at better 6.5 as well? 
I am confused though, Wouldn't I blow the speaker before the amp if these speakers are not up to what the amp was pushing?


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## austin4heatwave (Feb 22, 2009)

Clarion APX490M Marine Amplifiers - Marine Audio at Onlinecarstereo.com
try this one its close to your budget its a clarion with plenty of power for you


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## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

My experience with anything in audio marketed as "marine" is crap. Have you heard, other otherwise experienced this amp?


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## austin4heatwave (Feb 22, 2009)

Az Syndicate said:


> My experience with anything in audio marketed as "marine" is crap. Have you heard, other otherwise experienced this amp?


not this particular clarion amp but i have used there amps in the past with very good results. nice sq and good reliable power


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## SomeGuy748 (Feb 24, 2010)

Amps aren't your problem. The problem is your tower speakers. You're trying to project sound 80 feet behind the boat with car speakers in a can. This won't give you the results you're looking for. You should look into some tower speakers from a company like Wet Sounds or Exile. Both companies make cans that will actually do what you want. Unfortunately, they will probably blow your budget but they will give you the results you're looking for.


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## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

SomeGuy748 said:


> Amps aren't your problem. The problem is your tower speakers. You're trying to project sound 80 feet behind the boat with car speakers in a can. This won't give you the results you're looking for. You should look into some tower speakers from a company like Wet Sounds or Exile. Both companies make cans that will actually do what you want. Unfortunately, they will probably blow your budget but they will give you the results you're looking for.


Yeah I have looked at WetSounds and I don't see the difference between what they want $600 for and what can be bought elsewhere. I don't understand how their speakers are better than Car Audio Speakers. My Speakers came with the boat as the complete audio package designed by manufacture to work at 80' out. Now I know that could all be marketing mobo jumbo, but am I really to accept that Companies like wet sounds have some super special speaker that only they have access to?

I guess I could be totally mis-informed on how those speakers are better. I do appreciate you all taking time to reply to this thread and offering your views.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

since the speakers were a "stock" item and you have gone through multiple amps logic would dictate the problem is either A) in the wiring of the speakers -or- B) the speakers are blown -or- C) in the wiring and/or power supply for the amp (meaning what the boat's charging system can't provide for stable, clean power) -or- D) you just got unlucky and had two bad amps from the same batch. my money is on B or C.

what was the reason given when the first ed amp was replaced? everyone always asks what caused their problems.




Az Syndicate said:


> My experience with anything in audio marketed as "marine" is crap. Have you heard, other otherwise experienced this amp?



what has lead to that decision? amps you have owned? things people said? there has to be some merit to the marine versions or companies like alpine would not bother with it. i know they have a marine version of most of the pdx amps.


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## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

nineball said:


> since the speakers were a "stock" item and you have gone through multiple amps logic would dictate the problem is either A) in the wiring of the speakers -or- B) the speakers are blown -or- C) in the wiring and/or power supply for the amp (meaning what the boat's charging system can't provide for stable, clean power) -or- D) you just got unlucky and had two bad amps from the same batch. my money is on B or C.
> 
> what was the reason given when the first ed amp was replaced? everyone always asks what caused their problems.
> 
> ...


Great reply! Thank you for your time!

A.) I don't think speaker wiring is incorrect, Multimeter test on each speaker showed correct resistance
B.) Speakers sound fine when connected to a working AMP.
C.) Power system wiring looks good and is well laid out. It has positive and negative bus bars and fuse blocks in all the correct places. The boat has three batteries and a high output Alternator. One battery is setup as the starting/emergency battery, the other two are for the radio. I am not 100% confident in the setup, but I believe the system is setup correctly.
D.) When first amp was sent in for RMA they acknowledged a manufacturing defect and said they would rebuild it. After a month they said they stopped making that series and would not be able to rebuild it so they sent me one of the last ones they had on hand. It arrived cosmetically damaged from shipping, but was told they could not replace it due to not having any other stock. 

I would agree that it is highly unlikely that I got two bad batch amps, but due to circumstances above, maybe I did. I do know I need a new amp, I plan on getting one. If I get a completely different amp and I blow it, then I will know I got another problem that I need to diagnose and fix, most likely with my power system.

My distaste for "Marine" rated or marketed audio equipment is from experience. If often seems like manufactures make some small cosmetic changes (paint item white) and claim that the device is now more water resistant. They then proceed to mark the equipment up because boat owners will buy anything for their baby (and we often do). Likewise, my experience with other boat owners is that 95% of them have audio systems that are common car audio types of equipment. These setup sounds just fine and many of them have great sound at 80 feet out with "car audio" speakers.


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## SomeGuy748 (Feb 24, 2010)

Marine speakers shouldn't be much more if any more money. Both of the brands I work with that make a car and a marine version of speakers sell for the same price regardless of which version it is. I've heard of and seen some boat dealers that will mark up the marine product because they think they can and same with some marine websites, but you're right, they shouldn't have a huge price difference.

As to my comment earlier, it isn't just the speakers as much as it is the whole package that Wet Sounds offers. The can is a large part of its success. They use a horn loaded driver for the mid/hi frequencies which absolutely projects sound better. Ever been to a concert? They aren't using little 1" dome tweeters to get the sound to the back rows of seating, they're using horns. This same idea is used in the Wet Sounds and Exile cans. Sure you can get sound at 80 ft using tradition can systems, but the Wet Sounds and Exile cans will do it MUCH better. Also, you can dump a ton more power into either of them unlike most of the more popular cans that are simiply using car speakers. I used to work in a shop that would have as many as a dozen boats in the parking lot in the summer and I've used just about every can on the market because of this. I've seen customers go through tons of speakers, amps and different versions of cans that use tradition speakers but once they step up to a can using the horn system, problems were solved every time. 

I know you think they are expensive, but I'm telling you there is more to it than just another can with a similar speaker in it.


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## nicholasarmwood (Dec 29, 2010)

You might even be able to hear them at 25 miles per hour. LOL


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## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

SomeGuy748 said:


> Marine speakers shouldn't be much more if any more money. Both of the brands I work with that make a car and a marine version of speakers sell for the same price regardless of which version it is. I've heard of and seen some boat dealers that will mark up the marine product because they think they can and same with some marine websites, but you're right, they shouldn't have a huge price difference.
> 
> As to my comment earlier, it isn't just the speakers as much as it is the whole package that Wet Sounds offers. The can is a large part of its success. They use a horn loaded driver for the mid/hi frequencies which absolutely projects sound better. * Ever been to a concert? They aren't using little 1" dome tweeters to get the sound to the back rows of seating, they're using horns. This same idea is used in the Wet Sounds and Exile cans. *Sure you can get sound at 80 ft using tradition can systems, but the Wet Sounds and Exile cans will do it MUCH better. Also, you can dump a ton more power into either of them unlike most of the more popular cans that are simiply using car speakers. I used to work in a shop that would have as many as a dozen boats in the parking lot in the summer and I've used just about every can on the market because of this. I've seen customers go through tons of speakers, amps and different versions of cans that use tradition speakers but once they step up to a can using the horn system, problems were solved every time.
> 
> I know you think they are expensive, but I'm telling you there is more to it than just another can with a similar speaker in it.


thank you so much for explaining in terms I finally understand what separates WetSounds and Exile from what I have. 

Can I buy Horn type speakers to install into my current cans? See, I am what I like to call "economical" (most people say cheap). I like to get quality product but I know their is often ways to do it yourself for a more economical approach.


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## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

Az Syndicate said:


> Can I buy Horn type speakers to install into my current cans?  See, I am what I like to call "economical" (most people say cheap). I like to get quality product but I know their is often ways to do it yourself for a more economical approach.


Looks like Kicker came out with a product for my needs just last year
Kicker KM6500.2

Now I still need a 4 channel amp.


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## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

Ok I ended up ordering:

Kicker ZX850.4 R 4 Channel 850W Speaker Amplifier

Kicker KM6500.2 R 6.5" Marine Audio Boat Component Speakers (HLCD) (10KM65002) 

I really only wanted an AMP, but thanks to discussion on here I ended up getting those Horn Speakers as well. From what I have read on some on my boat sites, they sound pretty good and do compare to Wetsounds type horn systems. I am hoping with the high power 4 channel amp and the new speakers I won't have to push the system so hard creating lots of heat and draining the batteries.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

Az Syndicate said:


> Ok I ended up ordering:
> 
> Kicker ZX850.4 R 4 Channel 850W Speaker Amplifier
> 
> ...



did you get two sets of the components?


-edit-

just read up on this system. seems as of the crossover for each piece (horn and mid) are mounted directly on the back of the speaker, so you can run one line to each on the amp. i'd contact kicker though to find the proper power handling for the tweet since no tweet in the world that i have ever seen needs or wants 175rms


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## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

nineball said:


> ...i'd contact kicker though to find the proper power handling for the tweet since no tweet in the world that i have ever seen needs or wants 175rms


Thanks for reply and Comment!
I have already reached out to a Kicker Rep that post on some of the Boat forums that I read. This is something he posted earlier on weather to use a 4 channel or a 2 channel amp



> CROSSOVERS: I will ask that you set both crossovers to HI-PASS.
> For the midrange half of the amp, set the crossover frequency to 50 Hz or higher, even to 80 maybe. Don't run it below 50 Hz, or you will just be wasting power.
> For the horns side of the amp, turn the crossover, (again, in HI-PASS) all the way up to 500 Hz, or whatver its max is. this will prevent the horns half of the amp from trying to make power at frequencied where the horn driver does not need it.
> 
> ...


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

that's a good post but i still don't think you want to run 175rms to your tweets. he could have made that post with a 4x50rms amp in mind.


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## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

nineball said:


> that's a good post but i still don't think you want to run 175rms to your tweets. he could have made that post with a 4x50rms amp in mind.


Good point and I hope to get a reply back soon. I re-read his post and he was referencing a Planet Audio TT4400 specifically.

I will post what I get in reply!


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

100x4


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## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

ok here is what I got back from the Kicker Rep



> Hey Clint-
> 
> Thanks for the message, and the question. The ZX850.4 is not too much for the KM6500. Actually, it will under-power them a little the way you describe... The zx850.4 will deliver 175 watts to each speaker with each speaker wired to a channel and they are rated for 200. The hotter setup will be to use the amp in bridge mode, which will deliver 425 to each speaker. You wil turn the gains WAY down, but you iwll have tons of head room....
> 
> ...


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

Az Syndicate said:


> ok here is what I got back from the Kicker Rep


ok, but there really won't be an audible difference between 175 directly to each speaker or 425 per side (a ~38 watt per speaker increase) so that makes me ponder his response a bit.


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## Az Syndicate (Feb 8, 2011)

I plan on running in 4 channel mode still. Figure it will give me more flexibility into how I want it to sound.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

good plan. just be careful the first time running it.


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