# Best Old School SQ amps to run front stage?



## mcm308

Lets hear some opinions on the best Ole' School SQ amps to run comps. I need a new amp and not sure what... So far, I've been looking at Soundstream Reference, Orion HCCA, and US Amps.. What else should I look into ??? 50-100W X2 4ohm..


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## mires

I like the Alpine V12's myself. I have an MRV-F307 and an MRV-F303.


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## SoundJunkie

A/D/S...Audio Art....Linear Power....PPI Art....Phoenix Gold M series...all great IMO and I am sure the list goes on and on and on and.......

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## Jsracing

Zapco Z series competition amps. I have a Z250C4-SL thats still one the cleanest amps I've heard.


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## finbar

Harman Kardon CA260


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## samos69

I've got some older Alpines - MRV-F300 and MRV-F505, apparently they were underrated by 20% from what I've read so should produce good power for the fronts.


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## asota

Everyone has there own favorites mine is PPI A600 several on E-Bay right now in the $200 range.


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## kcobello

Soundstream Class A 50's. I still got 2 sittin on the shelf. bridged'em and ran them with some MBQ's when they were good. Getting back into Car Stereo, HELLO ALL!


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## c_nitty

US Amps...Audio Art....Linear Power....PPI Art....Phoenix Gold M and XS series


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## sqcomp

I suppose if I was going old school, I'd prolly do the PG M's, old Macs, perhaps some old ADS monos, definately some Kicker ZR or SS BBQ amps.


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## kenikh

I can say that if you are running a fully active 3way front stage, the ads PH15 and PH15.2 are hard to beat. You can find them mint for under $200, to boot. Get two of them and you can run a front center and two subs. With an MS-8, it's heaven.


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## SQ_Bronco

Orion HCCA isn't the best choice for comps. If you want somethign along those lines, go with the XTR series.

The PPI art mentioned earlier would do well- tough to beat 150Wx2 in a 14"x9" package.


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## KP

Orion NT, XTR, or Alpine 3545.


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## mcm308

Thanks to a friend here, I was able to pick up a clean Soundstream Reference Class A3.0 on the cheap so I'm going to stick with Soundstream for my amps. Thanks!


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## tyroneshoes

I just picked up an audio Art 200.2 for a single 10"

My favs are the zapco studio series and the z series that came before them


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## austin4heatwave

i loved my jbl gtQ 200 4x25 or 100x2 worked well bridged on 3 ohm boston pro's


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## azvrt

mcm308 said:


> Thanks to a friend here, I was able to pick up a clean Soundstream Reference Class A3.0 on the cheap so I'm going to stick with Soundstream for my amps. Thanks!


You REALLY got lucky with that CA 3.0, I still can't believe it. Glad to be of service though. Also glad you were able to convince the guy to ship it instead of just local.

A level above would be a Reference or Rubicon Picasso, currently for sale here from Speakers4Weapons, but of course these don't come cheap.


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## NRA4ever

I have a yamaha320 for my tweeters & a MS 275 for my mids. I just got the MS275.I'll know how it sounds next week. I expect it will be very clean.


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## Schriever sound

Zapco studios and z series,and ms pg


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## gsdye

I am running an Xtant 3150c still to this day (12+ yrs) Clean and quiet and cool enough to run stealth under the trunk cover. 

I had a Phoenix gold zx475ti for a few years also and with the added power the fronts really came alive but not as quiet. Definitely some noise. But the downside was it ran hotter and didn't like the stealth installation. It was fine 95% of the time for commuting. But any long distance trip it would be too hot and I would have to go music less. 

I recently went back to my Xtant and regained my appreciation of this amp. May Not be as loud or needs to be cranked up to open up the full sound or volume. Reality is my old ears need to be saved and I enjoy the clean and moderate sound levels of the Xtant.


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## Darth SQ

I am using the PPI Art Ax606.2 for my front stage.

6 channels with a built in three way active crossover and three separate gains.

Way ahead of it's time in 1996. 











Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Mike_Dee

Some of the best old school amps I've ever heard run front components,are the early to mid 1990's Alpine Japanese made 35xx Series amps. They're bulletproof, and the SQ is amazing!


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## Viggen

I was never a big fan of those old Alpines... I sold those & the early V12 stuff.... they just seemed to be missing something.

I haven't tried many old school stuff but for what I have played with Adcom for me is at the top. Had the old Art series from PPI & also the older Orion stuff.... compared Mac to Adcom when I was shopping way back then. Always wanted to try a Linear Power & Pheonix Gold.... but never swapped my amps out once I threw Adcom in the car.


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## sqguy

I still recommend zed esx q series amps


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## NRA4ever

I have the PG m on my front 6.5s. Its much cleaner than my old PG475ti. The 475 is a decent amp but the MS275 is a lot cleaner sounding & stronger.I'll be honest. I didn't expect to notice much difference.


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## sqshoestring

Mike_Dee said:


> Some of the best old school amps I've ever heard run front components,are the early to mid 1990's Alpine Japanese made 35xx Series amps. They're bulletproof, and the SQ is amazing!


Ha, you are not the only one and I have a good assortment of them on the shelves...and they were cheap. Problem is there are not that many larger ones, but I don't need huge power anyway. The early mrv seem to work well too, similar internal designs. Some people say they are nothing special, all I know is I liked them and they hold up.


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## allnpt0

AcuraTLSQ said:


> Orion NT, XTR, or Alpine 3545.


+1 for the 3545. I have three of them. Thinking of selling them to get a Mc4000m though. I might let all of my old school Alpines go. 3 3545's, 2 3558's and a 3546. Just thinking out loud.

Pete


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## mdechgan

Zapco and McIntosh


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## PPI_GUY

A 'budget' option would be a Yamaha YPA-1000. Lots of guys used those on comps and a bigger power Orion on subs back in the day. 
I would also recommend the older Zed built Nakamichi amps.


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## Fatmouse

I have to say in my opinion....For old school ADS is dead clean and a flat natural sound. also they always had a lot of "head room" in volume control. Also I would suggest the very hard to find but SO clean...Audio control line of amps with built-in legendary clean Audio Control EQ's. I personally run C" 1993 Rockford Fosgate Amps, I did also run their Split series speakers but they do not fit in my current ride, But I do still run Rockford Punch Sub's C' 1993 series and still playing strong.


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## Jerrym303

I have had many mentioned here - the ADS PH15, Xtant, PPI art series and Zapco studios.

The ADS was sweet. Overall winner the studios for power and purity.


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## Robb

Zapco Studio series is pretty good.  but difficult to find !


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## zerodistortion

For 2 channel amp, I'd try looking for a Harmon Kardon TC300. Bulletproof amps with great sound. I'd look at ADS as well too.


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## whoever

allnpt0 said:


> +1 for the 3545. I have three of them. Thinking of selling them to get a Mc4000m though. I might let all of my old school Alpines go. 3 3545's, 2 3558's and a 3546. Just thinking out loud.
> 
> Pete


Dont PLEASE!!! I used to work at Sensuous Sounds in Tampa Florida, used to sell McIntosh. I had 2 RF 200ix dsm's and wanted to "upgrade" to 2 MC431's bridged as I got them at cost and wanted to have what we sold in my vehicle. I sold them right away and put the Rockfords right back in. We got the first MC4000m because we did their Corvette demo vehicle. I promise you those Alpine's are a much better amp. UNless of course your into the collectors thing, the Macs are pretty.


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## Prime mova

Mike_Dee said:


> Some of the best old school amps I've ever heard run front components,are the early to mid 1990's Alpine Japanese made 35xx Series amps. They're bulletproof, and the SQ is amazing!


x2 I used Alpine 3554 series on my fronts back in the 90's. No plastic on those amps, they were made like tanks.


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## robert_wrath

NO holds barred budget: The Mighty* Milbert BaM-230

*


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## Robb

robert_wrath said:


> NO holds barred budget: The Mighty* Milbert BaM-230
> 
> *


$3000 an amp..LoL:surprised:


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## fishman007

I have been a solid believer in Audio Art and Ppi powerclass. I still run them and have since 1998.


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## rallypoint_1

I love the a/d/s/ pq8 4ch amp! Real clean sound. I have one but it doesn't work


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## Kane

I am running a us acoustics 4050 for my components as i really enjoy it!


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## brackac

Monolithic, if you can find them. Last I checked Monolithic Sound would still service them.


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## Will2

Blaupunkt PA 2150 T-Class. The PA series Tri-path Amps were about a decade ahead of there time.


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## kenikh

BAM


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## david in germany

I regret the day I sold my PQ20, sounded crispy like bacon tastes.. Wonderful..
By the way, ADS sold amps labeled under the "Braun" name as well in Germany. They had the same model numbers as the ADS versions as well.


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## Dubstep

wuz up,
my vote is for , PHOENIX GOLD ZPA'S OR ORION NT200'S.. either one setup properly will walk the dog! mop the floor with 95% of mid level to highend amps out there.


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## Got-Four-Eights

I am in the same boat and ended up with a mint Audio Art 200MS.. having a hard time locating a 50HC , 100HC or somethign big enough to run subs that is a white Audio Art amp.


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## Marky

Nakamichi PA300II is 4 ohm 75 wpc @ 0.003 distortion 115 s/n ratio 
1000 dampning.


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## The Wet 1

Yet another vote for the a/d/s PH15 and PQ20.


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## marvnmars

i still have an ads pq 20 and 2 power plate somethings and a mac 2chan (small 1) on a shelf, as well as a linear power, soundstream rubicon series, and a ppi pc 4800, but the monolithic amps where the most amazing thing since sliced bread (over 20 yrs ago), i had a monolithic crossover and amps in my 1st vehicle (later sold it all, and didn't know what i was selling at the time) with the monolithics going to a set of a/d/s plates (the 5.25" driver, whatever they where baack then) and 2 yamaha 8" subs under the seats of my little 75 ford courier p/u....the subs where powered by a dennon amp, and i had an alpine cassete deck as a h/u...cd's where not invented yet, i bought all the monolithic stuff at a super super discount, for $200 for amps and xover...it was a steal back then. i was 16 and dumb. picked up a fosgate punch 75 with bass and treble knobs thinking it was the stuff...yes, it had boost, but was not as clean as the mono...hind sight...


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## audiobaun

Mike_Dee said:


> Some of the best old school amps I've ever heard run front components,are the early to mid 1990's Alpine Japanese made 35xx Series amps. They're bulletproof, and the SQ is amazing!


I have 2-3523, and a 3525,3513s left and a3550, need be repaired, but all are crisp clean, and loud.The sq is amazing of this duo-b line.Great amps.I am currently running my Autotek Mean Machine 66hc on my front stage, and a 44 on the rears,at the moment,changingb to Hifonics VII Odin, and VII Vulcan


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## Got-Four-Eights

audiobaun said:


> I have 2-3523, and a 3525,3513s left and a3550, need be repaired, but all are crisp clean, and loud.The sq is amazing of this duo-b line.Great amps.I am currently running my Autotek Mean Machine 66hc on my front stage, and a 44 on the rears,at the moment,changingb to Hifonics VII Odin, and VII Vulcan


Is a Hifonics Vulcan VIII anygood? I found a shop near me that has one that is still new never used in mint condition for $100.


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## audiobaun

Got-Four-Eights said:


> Is a Hifonics Vulcan VIII anygood? I found a shop near me that has one that is still new never used in mint condition for $100.


Id get it.Thats a Zed made amplifier, and is a great series.You can take the power wire, and the remote wire, tie them together, and ground the amp to - on car batt post, and the power and remote to pos post, and it should light up, and is good sign it may be good.Id ask if it has been tested,and if they say no, then tell them youll offer approx 65 lowest,to 80,not knowing if it works or not.Prob take it, than test it at your car battery.That one has plugs.Id grab it up.VII, and VIII series were the best HF made,and Zed Audio made/under rated grossly.


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## Got-Four-Eights

audiobaun said:


> Id get it.Thats a Zed made amplifier, and is a great series.You can take the power wire, and the remote wire, tie them together, and ground the amp to - on car batt post, and the power and remote to pos post, and it should light up, and is good sign it may be good.Id ask if it has been tested,and if they say no, then tell them youll offer approx 65 lowest,to 80,not knowing if it works or not.Prob take it, than test it at your car battery.That one has plugs.Id grab it up.VII, and VIII series were the best HF made,and Zed Audio made/under rated grossly.


This guy has a test bench in the back he hooked up the Audio Art amp I bought from him. He has some oldschool Nakamichi amps.. one looks mint.. some old planet audio.. memphis. etc... an old US Amps but its scratched. The Hifonics Vulcan VIII was MINT.. I may pick it up for the hell of it.


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## zumbo

Linear Power.


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## audiobaun

Got-Four-Eights said:


> This guy has a test bench in the back he hooked up the Audio Art amp I bought from him. He has some oldschool Nakamichi amps.. one looks mint.. some old planet audio.. memphis. etc... an old US Amps but its scratched. The Hifonics Vulcan VIII was MINT.. I may pick it up for the hell of it.


All mentioned are fantastic amplifiers by Brand,not knowing the models,but within the late 80s-early 90s were the cream of the crop for most car audio amplifiers rushing to retrieve the Nameplate to be the best/most powerful ect at that time frame.Setting a footprint!


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## Jonny Hotnuts

Audison HR-100
Sony XES M50 (NOT M1 or M3's)
SS Class A 100
Never met an Adcom I didnt like, havent heard them all.....
Alpine Juba 3546
Milbert 230 (I have a love-hate with these)
A/D/S/ PQ or PH (any)
SS D100-200 (Gen I)
McIntosh
Zapco Studio 

.....but really if you have any stones at all you will get a pair of the Audison HR 100's. Run 1 mono to each side, you wont be sorry. 

~JH


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## mfenske

Can't believe no one mentioned the MTX Thunder amps. I absolutely love them since they look nice and can't be beat for sound.


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## Got-Four-Eights

mfenske said:


> Can't believe no one mentioned the MTX Thunder amps. I absolutely love them since they look nice and can't be beat for sound.


The black and gold ones?


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## fishman007

Well, i guess they didnt get mentioned because tey arent considered sq equipment. They were nice amps but really werent on the high-end sq level.


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## Got-Four-Eights

fishman007 said:


> Well, i guess they didnt get mentioned because tey arent considered sq equipment. They were nice amps but really werent on the high-end sq level.


Weren't these designed by PPI Engineers? The Black and Gold MTX amps?


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## fishman007

I guess my point is that dis you ever have anybody winning sq competition with mtx? They were great amps full of power. Tma amps are designed by JL but they definitely arent HD or slash series quality


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## Got-Four-Eights

fishman007 said:


> I guess my point is that dis you ever have anybody winning sq competition with mtx? They were great amps full of power. Tma amps are designed by JL but they definitely arent HD or slash series quality


I thought JL purchased Total Audio? Or did they own them from the start? I hear what you are saying though.


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## fishman007

Tma boasts (and has since they were independant) that they are "Designed by JL". I dont know all the business details but they were independant first


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## Got-Four-Eights

fishman007 said:


> Tma boasts (and has since they were independant) that they are "Designed by JL". I dont know all the business details but they were independant first


I heard a system about 3 months ago with all TMA stuff and for what it was I was impressed. Not bad for he price.


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## PPI_GUY

Got-Four-Eights said:


> Weren't these designed by PPI Engineers? The Black and Gold MTX amps?


PPI built the boards for the Red/White Terminator series MTX amps. They did NOT build the HO series, those were built by MTX alittle later on. As far as I know, PPI wasn't involved with any other series beyond the Terminators. 
I think Orion built boards for the BTA (?) series.


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## PPI_GUY

Got-Four-Eights said:


> I thought JL purchased Total Audio? Or did they own them from the start? I hear what you are saying though.


I thought they owned them from the start. The TMA stuff was "entry or budget level" right? 
J-L probably saw a need for a presence in that segment of the market but, didn't want the J-L name attached directly.


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## Got-Four-Eights

PPI_GUY said:


> I thought they owned them from the start. The TMA stuff was "entry or budget level" right?
> J-L probably saw a need for a presence in that segment of the market but, didn't want the J-L name attached directly.


Yeah, that makes sense to me. They actually aren't bad amps. The two I heard were pushing some Hertz energy comps, coax, and 2 W1 subs. Actually sounded pretty good considering the price.

Sorry to take off topic.. Back to Old School Front stage!


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## quietfly

MMATS sq series... I have the 4070 running my Hats it is AWESOME


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## SUX 2BU

SQ_Bronco said:


> Orion HCCA isn't the best choice for comps. If you want somethign along those lines, go with the XTR series.
> 
> The PPI art mentioned earlier would do well- tough to beat 150Wx2 in a 14"x9" package.


I hear you. My 1988-vintage Alpine 3539 does 150x2 RMS in a 12"x8" pacakge of clean class A/B Japan-made power. I love them (have 3).


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## SUX 2BU

Mike_Dee said:


> Some of the best old school amps I've ever heard run front components,are the early to mid 1990's Alpine Japanese made 35xx Series amps. They're bulletproof, and the SQ is amazing!


You bet. I really dig the late-80's models though: 3523/3525/3539. Have 2 of the '23, 3 of the '25 and 3 of the '39. Excellent amps, beautiful simple elegant design and compact size. The 3542 was also very nice. The 3554 I like but they like to make lots of heat.


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## SUX 2BU

allnpt0 said:


> +1 for the 3545. I have three of them. Thinking of selling them to get a Mc4000m though. I might let all of my old school Alpines go. 3 3545's, 2 3558's and a 3546. Just thinking out loud.
> 
> Pete


Mmmmmmm your collection = me likey. I have 2 3545's myself but am always looking for more  A 3546 would be so cool to add to the herd.


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## ampaddiction

Mcintosh MC series and not so old school diamond audio D7 series I also like old US amps.


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## Micksh

It's funny...all the years I ran and/or installed U.S. Amps, I never really thought about them as "SQ" amps...they had just so much brute force it seemed that I never really thought about it. Looking back though, they did sound good. I also liked PPI Arts, Xtant, Zapco, Audio Art...


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## distantbliss

ampaddiction said:


> Mcintosh MC series and not so old school diamond audio D7 series I also like old US amps.


I have 2 esoteric audio E7152's running my front stage although my comps are running passive for now that'll change soon and see if active will make things shine.


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## ampaddiction

distantbliss said:


> I have 2 esoteric audio E7152's running my front stage although my comps are running passive for now that'll change soon and see if active will make things shine.


I am currently working on a rebuild using my D-7402 on the front stage 1 set of components in dash pods which consist of a cadence 5.25 cvlk and a crossfire 2inch tweeter with the crossfire crossovers. the 5.25 is a 3 inch coil mid so they will handle the 400 plus watts each. there is also 2 diamond d3 10" in a center console up front on a US Amps HC-100. Then 4 diamond audio TDX-15s on 4 USA-400. I hope to finish up the build this week for a show on Sunday.


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## audiobaun

Some of the best amps in my opinion that I still have and use-Autotek Mean Machines White series 99,66,66hc,44,44hc,90mxi,40mxi,Autotek BTS series 7030,7050,7150,7204,USA US Acoustics,2050,2050h,2075,4050,4060,4080,2100,2150,6300,Hifonics VII,VIII series,Alpine Duo-B 3522,3523,3525,3526,3527,3540,3513s,3550,ect on these series,JBL GTQ 400/200,Concord DigitalReference Series-50.2,20.2,SoundStream USA series amps,and SA series,I could go on for hours.Sansui made a couple beautiful sq amplifiers back in early 90s also,Denon,Audio Art,Eclipse,List could go on for quite some time


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## [email protected]

fishman007 said:


> I guess my point is that dis you ever have anybody winning sq competition with mtx? They were great amps full of power. Tma amps are designed by JL but they definitely arent HD or slash series quality


UMM how about Mark Eldridge? He ran MTX before he ran Kicker IIRC...


I always liked Phoenix Gold MS and ZPA series. McIntosh, Original Butler Tube Driver, PPI art. 

Personally as problematic as the ZPA amps were they were the best amps I ever heard on a front stage.


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## legend94

Adcom, most well planned old school amp in my humble opinion.


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## marvnmars

Aft?er really thinking about it, I think maybe the best thought out amp for a front stage would be a sound stream sf-90 staggered amp, 30w split on 2 chan and 60w split on other 2.. a 4 chan amp from the early days of soundstream with very conservative ratings, just add a xover and you have maybe 't-he perfect front stage old school amp for a 2 way set up....clean, solid, and nice...


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## Driven Audio Tony

I always liked the old RF Power Series stuff.. 500's, 250's etc.


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## StockA4

I've wanted to run an Orion HCCA 2100 on my mids but haven't figured out what to do with my tweets.


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## Ampman

I like the PPI PC & Art & the older AM series amps, also older Orion's SoundStream, but my pick of all would for sure be the older PPI AM nothing like those amps


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## Jroo

I was always a fan of the old soundstream class a amps. Just could never afford them back in the day. I also remember hearing a car with Adcom amps that all had seperate power supplies that looked like smaller amps. That car sounded amazing with infinity beta speakers.


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## LucidusRex

out of all the amplifiers ive had over the years, my esx vision v200.2 takes the cake, but there is a little bias to it as it was my very first high quality amp. beautiful black finish, top mount adjustment dials, very powerful, and was a dream to the ears as a 21 y/o, along with the older ppl into audio i hung out with... ill never forget it, sadly, as it was stolen not long after i got it in near mint cond. in exchange for a pair of 70 dollar technics home speakers (f'n, score!)

my hafler mse's are next on the chart. imo, rockford did a beautiful job on these pure class-a amplificators that i believe share the trans nova design/tech with rockford as trans ana, and quite frankly, when coupled to the max and meq (wayne harris's 2-part predecessor to the symmetry, iirc) these little bad boys sing so cleanly, i have to baby them,.. srsly. i dont run them in the car anymore or not for very long if i do, i just take them out to power up and play with my speakers on the bench as reference amps due to the condition, size, and just,.. the pure warmth and richness of what comes out of my drivers when properly tweaked (i love tweaking dials, fingering slides, and switchin chips)

next, i would have to say is the orion 275sx. ive had 2 for almost 4 years, one of which i have been running on a pair of jbl 5x7 coax's in the wife's/my car for the entire time, i just cannot get myself to switch it out with anything else considering the combination of comparable power, overhead, durability (23 y/o), and clarity. 

there are alot of amps i have that i am not fortunate enough to play with quite as much as i would like to, but im sure i can come back and rate them somewhere in this upper tier after a while. those above are just the ones i can clearly recollect.


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## soundboy

Sony XES-M50
McIntosh
Soundstream Picasso (first one, the chrome modell)


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## dales

im still in love with the v12 expert line. ive used everything from ppi-orion-rockford-pg-mtx-soundstream.


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## Kane

just saw a v12 expert on my local craigslist for sale


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## StockA4

I know there are newer, more expensive amps with better numbers out there. But to date one of my favorites is the Orion 2150 SX. A lot of people measure Orions by how low they can go or how many subs you can run off of one. I have to tell you, when you use an SX for what it was intended; you get nothing but sweet, sweet music.


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## WRX2010

StockA4 said:


> I know there are newer, more expensive amps with better numbers out there. But to date one of my favorites is the Orion 2150 SX. A lot of people measure Orions by how low they can go or how many subs you can run off of one. I have to tell you, when you use an SX for what it was intended; you get nothing but sweet, sweet music.


I absolutely agree with you on this about the SXs. I benched the two 275sx and the one 250sx I have this past weekend and forgot how great they sound. Most don't realize how high the s/n ratio this line has. Same with most older lines, like Hifonics VI, VII, VIII. They are well above 100db.

I was going to list them soon, but now I am having doubts.


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## StockA4

WRX2010 said:


> I absolutely agree with you on this about the SXs. I benched the two 275sx and the one 250sx I have this past weekend and forgot how great they sound. Most don't realize how high the s/n ratio this line has. Same with most older lines, like Hifonics VI, VII, VIII. They are well above 100db.
> 
> I was going to list them soon, but now I am having doubts.


If I did that, it would be with the intention of getting a 2150. I've had the 275, still have the 250. There's just something about leaving the gains down and having a ton of headroom. You could always do 250 to your tweets, 2150 to your mids, 2250 to your subs. Yummy!


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## WRX2010

I don't see myself installing them and there is no use having them sit and not being enjoyed by someone. . . . . . I am trying to recover from keeping amps I won't ever use. They are great looking though, just a few small nicks here and there.


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## StockA4

WRX2010 said:


> I don't see myself installing them and there is no use having them sit and not being enjoyed by someone. . . . . . I am trying to recover from keeping amps I won't ever use. They are great looking though, just a few small nicks here and there.


It seems you and I share the same affliction.


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## WRX2010

Yes . . . I haven't counted in a while, but I would guess 60-70 amps right now.


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## for2nato

Linear Power or Zapco Studio FTW! Take your pick.


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## JuiceMan88

I had trickyricky on here refurb/mod an old PG M25 for me that I am gonna use for my front stage. He worked it over with BB OP Amps and WIMA caps and some other stuff. Probably going to use it to power some HAT Mirus 6.5s


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## Q-Authority

The first two PA series amps from Nakamichi, when they were made in Japan. Incredible specs, and incredibly musical (and nice looking too).


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## ryanr7386

.
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.
.
<---- Go that way!


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## BadSS

I ran a couple HiFonics IVs for about 22-years in three different cars. I bought a few new old-stock Hifonics Gen X amps - last of the Zed made for car number 4. I couldn't wait and replace the old IVs with the Gen X amps. While I couldn't tell much if any difference in dynamics and overall tone or "sound",, the noise floor on the Gen X is much,,, much better. In fact, I've compared the GenX to a number of amps,, a few old school, semi-old school, and a few relatively new amps. The MB Quart RAA made by Rockford with the front end defeated was the closest,, but that Gen X is super quiet and rivals higher end home receivers I've heard. I'm sure there are others "as good", I just haven't heard one yet - admittedly I haven't even seen in person what most others have referenced as their favorites.


----------



## tdc36

Hands down the Soundstream Class A amps. And that means any of them from the Class A series I and II 50 or 100, through the Reference and Rubicon class A amps. God I wish they still made them.


----------



## shaghan

Zapco 151a is my choice for front stage.


----------



## JuiceMan88

I'm running a "worked up" Phoenix Gold M25 on some HAT Mirus 6.5s and it sounds great. I suppose my amp of choice though (without breaking the bank!) would be an M50. I love the way they look as well as the way they sound.


----------



## rimshot

To this day I have never heard anything better than my old (and missed) soundstream reference 700s. The rubicons in my opinion sounded about the same so I put them in the same group. Would totally kill for the rubi 604 and two rubi 1000's I had at one time <single tear>


----------



## jonbuilds

When I arrived in AZ 25 years ago, I was running a Nakamichi TD700, yes "TD" strands for "Tape Deck," for the head unit, with a true tri-amp setup with *a Soundstream D200 for subs, D100 for mids, and Class A 40 for highs*. Yes, all first generation stuff. I used Nakamichi EC200 and EC200H for active crossovers. Front separates were ADS 320i, subs were KEF B139 drivers in sealed enclosures. 

I could have listened to that setup forever, I could hear things in most recordings that would bring tears to my eyes they were so sweet sounding. talk about sound stage!!

All this gear has been improved upon since then A BIT, except for possibly the Nak crossovers. Their easy tunability made them invaluable for tweaking a system and they did little to negatively impact the sound stage. I loved the ADS separates but I think there are speakers available that do as well (try Hybrid Audio, perhaps, he is making some great mid drivers in particular). I bought up as many of the original ADS drivers as I could find a number of years ago when ADS folded and they ended up spread around the country. I have three 300i drivers left...

Sadly, I made the mistake of keeping the volume up one night as I pulled in to work, December 1989. When I came out after work, some loser(s) had carved all the equipment out in a most violent fashion. I was so traumatized that I got out of serious car audio for myself for 15 years.

So now I run SS amps, all Class A up front. I have a couple of 3.0 running bridged, about to buy a couple more for spares. 6.0 is amazing, and so on. If I could find a couple of Class A 50 II I would grab them in a minute. I think all of the SS Class A designs sprung from a Nelson Pass design used in the Class A 40 I had (you can find some of that history if you search around on his website). It was a very elegant design, and sounded magical (originated circa 1985/86). Soundstream was a cool little company back then, I actually stopped by their place in Redondo Beach in 1987 and met a guy, I think his name was Bill, who repaired the D100 for me at no charge. Different company now, though, don't know much about it.

I also have fond memories of the ADS amps from the late 80s, truly great sounding stuff.

Wow, trip down memory lane. Had enough?

Jonathan


----------



## seanarms

jonbuilds said:


> Wow, trip down memory lane. Had enough?
> 
> Jonathan


No!


----------



## bamelanc

audiobaun said:


> changingb to Hifonics VII Odin, and* VII Vulcan*


I'm looking for a minty Vulcan VII^^.


----------



## Catman

PPI_GUY said:


> I would also recommend the older Zed built Nakamichi amps.


ZED was the downfall of Nak amps ....the "Zed" amps were no where near the quality of the original versions. Too many people 'pee their pants' over Zed ...they may have done good things ....just not for Nak.



Marky said:


> Nakamichi PA300II is 4 ohm 75 wpc @ 0.003 distortion 115 s/n ratio
> 1000 dampning.





Q-Authority said:


> The first two PA series amps from Nakamichi, when they were made in Japan. Incredible specs, and incredibly musical (and nice looking too).



Yes, the PA400 / PA300II was one of the best amps ever made ...IMO nothing in that era could touch it for SQ. McIntosh was the only other amp to come close.


>^..^<


----------



## StockA4

It's not about front soundstage, but Jonbuilds story reminded me of a setup I had about 18 years ago. For the life of me I can't remember what I was using for my fronts. But in the back I had a Soundstream D200 pushing a pair of Kicker gold letter competition 8 ohm 15's. 

I don't like 15's, and I certainly don't like most of what either of those companies are offering today. But to this day, I remember the sweet, sweet music that little combo made. You didn't need a whole lot to make those Kickers sound nice back then. And the Nelson Pass design is a timeless one.

And I can't remember the model, but the tape deck was a Denon.


----------



## jonbuilds

Catman said:


> Yes, the PA400 / PA300II was one of the best amps ever made ...IMO nothing in that era could touch it for SQ. McIntosh was the only other amp to come close.


Good reminder for me, I installed a number of the Nak PA400 and 300II amps, although they were harder to sell for some reason. Truly terrific sounding amps. Nakamichi had a FANTASTIC salesman's accommodation program, we could get them for 65% off retail, and a couple of the guys did. I stuck with the SS amps but to this day I have not heard a better sounding preamp than Nak's, up to and including the one in my MBX (which also has a terrific D/A converter). Wish they still made the crossovers. Wish they still existed in this country.


----------



## NRA4ever

One of my first good sounding builds used 2 MTX 280s 1 MTX 2160 & a MTX 2300. I ran a Boston pro 3way set active using a 4way MTX crossover. I had 2 Black Gold 10s on the 2300. The 2300s birth sheet showed it putting out 996 watts 4ohm mono. It sounded great for the mid 90s.


----------



## SQ Audi

M44 by Phoenix Gold. One of the best, if not the best, stage amps produced. ProMOS by PPI and HCCA by Orion would round out my top 3 Old school amps for a front stage.


----------



## wa0zog

I have to agree with LucidusRex on his opinion of Hafler amps. I've had three of mine since they were new, and I've found nothing that sounds quite as good or has the power that they do for what I'm trying to run them on. Naturally, I'm not going to run my subs on one of my 40's, but they do respectably. I've now got 4 Hafler MSE-40di's in the car, and will soon be adding a single MSE-200tn on the subs, along with an MEQ-430 equalizer and an MAX-410 crossover. That combination is just phenomenal.

I also like my A/D/S/ PQ10, especially when run with my A/D/S/ 642CSi crossover, it sounds absolutely awesome as well (although I really need another 2-channel A/D/S/ amp to go along with it to round it out properly).

And I'm also very happy with my Rockford Punch 4040dsm that has it's own built-in crossover. It's not quite as smooth as the combinations that I mentioned, but still sounds reasonable at lower volumes. There's some harshness, though, that you can hear when you begin to push it a bit.

Others that I've heard, but haven't owned, are some of the Phoenix Gold, such as the MQ series. And also some of the PPI Art series. I've also got a friend who runs exclusively older Xtant amps in his truck. It sounds fairly good, and can sound outstanding, but he likes things a little more "edgy" than I do.

It seems that it's all a matter of taste...


----------



## Catman

jonbuilds said:


> Good reminder for me, I installed a number of the Nak PA400 and 300II amps, although they were harder to sell for some reason. Truly terrific sounding amps. Nakamichi had a FANTASTIC salesman's accommodation program, we could get them for 65% off retail, and a couple of the guys did....


They didn't have the name recognition back then. I remember I was an 'ignorant' (know it all) kid back then and was a 'die hard' Pioneer fan. I had just stepped up the ladder to Concord (when they were an excellent SQ company). I was still not satisfied with my system. I went to a local dealer looking for an EQ. He took a listen to my system and recommended a Nak TD300 HU. He even offered to install it and let me audition it for the weekend ...and if I wanted it just come back on Mon and pay for it, or he would take it out and I owed nothing  (how times have changed).  Needless to say I came back on Mon and paid for it ...and bought the PA400 and PA300II amps as well as an EC200 x-over. I've used them as my reference amp since. I've also been stashing all of the gear from this era that I can. I even have some of these NIB. 

I competed in my first SQ competition with the above system ....came in 2nd. I bought a TD1200 a few weeks later because that was the only system that beat me. (A guy had a TD1200 with a PA400 running a set of SP80s and a PA300II running a set of SP400 plate mount speakers all in a pickup truck) I competed with that cassette deck / amps (and NO EQ) up until the 90's and never placed less than 3rd.


>^..^<


----------



## King

Love my Adcom 4702's.


----------



## KSUWildcatFan

Arc Audio 4150CXL-R (or XXK). One of the cleanest amps I've ever heard.

Basically, anything engineered by Robert Zeff or Stephen Mantz is quality stuff. Period.


----------



## SQ Audi

Blade Amps...outstanding back in the day..


----------



## martinkimber

I must of went through 2.5 pages of this thread and not once a RF-HD or DSM mentioned. So I can pretty much assume they don't do the job very good for front stage?


----------



## martinkimber

A lot of times ADS is mentioned for SQ. And many times the writer isn't specific on which one. ADS made many, and the past couple weeks on ebay there was 2 power plate 100 and 2 power plate 80's they barely gave away. These are two totally different designs I believe.


----------



## StockA4

martinkimber said:


> I must of went through 2.5 pages of this thread and not once a RF-HD or DSM mentioned. So I can pretty much assume they don't do the job very good for front stage?


I'm about to put together a system in my friend's vehicle that will include a set of 6.5" CDT's being powered with an RF 200x2. I have no idea what this is going to sound like, but if it auditions well I will post it here.


----------



## for2nato

martinkimber said:


> I must of went through 2.5 pages of this thread and not once a RF-HD or DSM mentioned. So I can pretty much assume they don't do the job very good for front stage?


I woupdnt say that. I have a rockford 160.4 that i will be running a front stage off of eventually. But just not in the car i DD now. But my reccomendation was and still is LP

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gpgtp

I really like my diamond D7s, but some dont consider them old school yet. Ive not found an amp out there yet i would trade for my 3!


----------



## StockA4

I've been listening to my Genesis entry level comps with my new Hifonics Olympus VIII. Man oh man! I'm impressed!


----------



## Car_Audionut

I really like the first gen Soundstream D series more than the the DII.

Similar to jonbuilds, I was running D200 for subs, D100 for mids and a Class A 50 for highs (later replaced with a D60). Still run the D200 with ADS components up front.

For about a year I ran a Rockford Power 650 for the fronts (basically overkill at 125w x 4) and a Soundstream Class A 6.0 for bass. The Power 650 sounds as good or better than most home amps, and I run a Bryston 4B at home plus some tube gear. Orion SX series aren't bad either. Early Zapco stuff is good too. I'll be re-installing a Zapco Z-220 in the next couple days up front. I tend to cycle my amps to keep them alive.


----------



## paulc35

mcm308 said:


> Lets hear some opinions on the best Ole' School SQ amps to run comps. I need a new amp and not sure what... So far, I've been looking at Soundstream Reference, Orion HCCA, and US Amps.. What else should I look into ??? 50-100W X2 4ohm..


You have the brand listed. For vocals, mid range, and high frequency. Tube/hybrid . I have the us amp tu-4360 and its got very sweet mid/high frequency and for that matter low frequency doesn't suffer at all. If you have a head unit capable of high resolution and speakers to let it shine you will hear detail like never before. I switched out my excel on deck which was great .
But now I have the Pioneer PRS 80 and I believe for the money there's not a better head unit out there


----------



## Mr12voltwires

If you can't find an old McIntosh or Audison, the rarest of the rare is an Alpine 3558 - about the best amp Alpine ever made, less F#1.


----------



## kr-15

The older rockfords were really nice, but more from a power standpoint. They werent as clean as some of the other amps mentioned in this thread. I do miss my 800a2 tho, that thing was suitable for substage, let alone hammering away at some mids


----------



## Car_Audionut

paulc35 said:


> ....For vocals, mid range, and high frequency. Tube/hybrid . I have the us amp tu-4360 and its got very sweet mid/high frequency and for that matter low frequency doesn't suffer at all...


I ran a Planet Audio HT-752 Tube / Hybrid for a while, I'm sure it's not as good as a US Amps Tu-4360, but I recall running short errands every now and then and having to wait 45 seconds or so before the tubes warmed up and then getting sound off my front stage... basically listening to bass till then.

I also replaced the tubes with high end vintage Telefunken and Mullard tubes borrowed from my home audio gear and it did open up more...


----------



## Ampman

Id like to get my hands on a nice old school Milbert amp thats all tube input and output bet one of those would sound some kinda good


----------



## Iron Maiden

Carver mc4060


----------



## SchizoFrenic

Monolithic pa2000 imho,,,


----------



## e39 touring

It's nice to hear that my old MRV Alpine V12 experts are regarded so well. I haven't owned anything nicer, but have always been impressed. They have nice feature and the 4ch can run fronts active!


----------



## LazyCrazy

My vote is for Alpine 3558, V12 Expert Series & Luxman CM Series


----------



## oilman

My vote is for Brax Graphic. I'm using all Brax to push my three way active front stage and its the best it has ever sounded. Very detailed, ZERO noise and pushing 9" AT23i's for hours it will not get hot, hell it barely gets warm. Hands down the best amps I've owned, great craftsmanship and attention to detail.


----------



## Shinju

Any retro Phoenix Gold amplifier /thread.


----------



## cleansoundz

I would have to say that my JL Audio 300/4 is up there as the best I have heard for front stage. That's a lie my old PPI PCX 480 was the cleanest I heard. Both amps were designed by the same person, so that doesn't surprise me.


----------



## StockA4

I think I posted a few months ago about my current incarnation of Hifonics viii's in the Mini Cooper. Everything isn't the way I want it yet, but I have two channels of a Hifonics Olympus to my Genesis Profile 2 way comps and after a few months (and break-in for the speakers), I have to say this is one of the greatest combos I've heard for awhile. I am first and foremost a huge Orion fan, but this is my wife's car and I decided to go the Hifonics route. I couldn't be happier and the system is only about 3/4 of the way done.


----------



## cleansoundz

Some of the best and cleanest systems that I ever heard were back in 1992 and they always used ADS amps.


----------



## RNBRAD

That McIntosh MC427 that's on the featured add. Doesn't get any better than that cept that one is junk. Brax would be my second choice, Audison my 3rd.


----------



## Rodek

I want to add a couple amps to this thread. First off, an old school Proton 222. Rated at 22 wpc into 4 ohms. Seperate gain controls for left and right. A very small footprint too! The second old amp that impressed me back in the day was the Rodek 224Ci. Itwas rated to produce 24 wpc into 4 ohms stereo yet the amp was also bridgeable to 2 ohm mono and produce over 300 watts into 2 ohms mono. Finally, the Jensen ATS100RX Audio Art 50HC, series IV HiFonics Pluto and Orion 220GT. Oh yes and believe it or not the mid 80's Pyramid PB401 (I still use it on my test bench).

One of my earliest systems in 1984-85ish....had a IV HiFonics Pluto on the front stage. If you couldn't tell, I've always liked vintage small footprint amps.


----------



## SilkySlim

I do agree that the olympus vii or viii is one of my favorites.


----------



## StockA4

SilkySlim said:


> I do agree that the olympus vii or viii is one of my favorites.


I'm running an Olympus VIII to a set of Genesis comps. Pure candy.


----------



## coomaster1

Another vote here for the alpine 3543,3544 and 3545 amplifiers.I have been running alpine 3544 amps for over 20 years and have not had one issue.They are very underated and have amazing sound quality like the other poster said.Coupled with my alpine anniversary 7909 head unit.You can set them on fixed and turn the volume right up.Richard Clark used the alpine 3545's himself, so there is no hype on these amps.Just great,quality listening for years to come.


----------



## trojan fan

Monolithic Sound(msi) class A amps, if you could even find them


----------



## trojan fan

SchizoFrenic said:


> Monolithic pa2000 imho,,,



Excellent choice,:beerchug: but very hard to locate


I used to live in Nipomo, home of MSI


----------



## RNBRAD

coomaster1 said:


> Another vote here for the alpine 3543,3544 and 3545 amplifiers.I have been running alpine 3544 amps for over 20 years and have not had one issue.They are very underated and have amazing sound quality like the other poster said.Coupled with my alpine anniversary 7909 head unit.You can set them on fixed and turn the volume right up.Richard Clark used the alpine 3545's himself, so there is no hype on these amps.Just great,quality listening for years to come.


Awesome amps. I ran the 3554 and 3550 for a lot of years, never an issue either.


----------



## NRA4ever

I'm running a old school USAmp 4 channel on old school MB Quart PSC316 reference speakers. It sounds real good.


----------



## subwoofery

Robb said:


> $3000 an amp..LoL:surprised:


I have an upgraded version of that amp, the UBER Milbert BaM-235ab  Not old school yet though 

Regarding the thread, oilman got the best suggestion IMO - if you want clean, effortless, powerful, headroom, low distortion, well everything really, just look at some old school Brax amp from back in 1998 : Brax X 1000 or Brax X 2000

Kelvin


----------



## Miguel mac

Hi guys,

I live from Spain, I've heard many amplifiers, as Audison VRX, Brax, Steg Qm, Steg K, your magnify those amplifiers. In Spain these amplifiers are pulled from price, anyone can buy a decent job and even a job, sometimes the price is ridiculous for these amps on the used market. Your can check for google.

We're testing your amp MADE IN USA, they are better than European SQ amplifiers and make things better, are bulletproof. Amplifiers old scoold as Phoenix Gold MS, Orion HCCA NT, Zapco Studio, MC Intosh, Rockford, and Soundstrem old school they do sound better to our ears. 

In Italy it is the same that Spain. Why is this so?


----------



## Richi

Proton CA490 ( The rear Channel)


----------



## ZombieHunter85

Not sure if it is considered old school, circa 95, Clarion APA4120 I love mine.


----------



## ZombieHunter85

Also if anyone has a planet audio tube for sale please im me.


----------



## legend94

ZombieHunter85 said:


> Not sure if it is considered old school, circa 95, Clarion APA4120 I love mine.


Those are excellent and can be had cheap now.


----------



## STROKD

In order:
Alpine 3558 (Alpine engineer told me they never built an amp as good.. EVER, end of discussion)
Phoenix Gold MS (smokes the M amps imo), ZPAs in late 90s early 2Ks
PPI Arts
Orion XTRs with the fins, digital reference ones from the early 90s
Zapco
HiFonics

Best stereo I ever heard was the Orion Buick Roadmaster. It had 5 x 250HCCAs in it with all NT speakers (about 20). It sounded like the music was being recorded in the damn car.


----------



## SchizoFrenic

trojan fan said:


> Excellent choice,:beerchug: but very hard to locate
> 
> 
> I used to live in Nipomo, home of MSI


Lucky for me, iv'e found 1 PA2000.
And 3 of PA700...

Now i run my fronstage with monolithic amp
PA2000 for midbass (SCanSpeak revelator 15w)
PA700 for tweet (scanspeak classic 9700)
Using passive crossover....
They sound soo musical.... with proper tonal balance..


----------



## sqchris

Richi said:


> Proton CA490 ( The rear Channel)


Had a D275 many moons ago running a Becker box


----------



## ecobass

Good info here. Anyone experience with old school US tube amps ?


----------



## SilkySlim

I have heard really good things about the planet audio OS zed tubes. There is always Butler. I think milbert has made some as well. Good luck.


----------



## SilkySlim

After testing every amp I could get my hands on my results.
If you have the space and budget.
1. Lanzar Optidrive 2500
2. Very close Lanzar Optidrive 500
3. Lanzar Optidrive 200/2200 nod to 2200
4. 3way tie Hifonics VII/VIII Olympus/Zeus, Autotek 7300/7600, Rodek 2150 slight nod to Rodek
5. Adcom 
6. PPI art a600
7. Soundstream ref. 1000/500
8. Orion 2150sx
9. Phoenix Gold MS2125
10. ESX 175.2 & 120.2


----------



## ecobass

Thanks for the info silkyslim! I am really intrigued about old school amps that I've decided to sell my JL Audio Hd 900/5 and put the money towards 3 separate 2- channel old school amps like the PG MS2125 PPi art a600.2 etc for a 2-way + sub active set up.

I would still like to hear some reviews/personal opinions on the US Amps hybrid/ tube Class A- A/B amps ...


----------



## Robb

Old Zapco Z220
Amazing sound !


----------



## ecobass

Oh Wow nice find... never seen one like that one before, excuse my ignorance but is that a class A tube amp ?


----------



## Darth SQ

SilkySlim said:


> After testing every amp I could get my hands on my results.
> If you have the space and budget.
> 1. Lanzar Optidrive 2500
> 2. Very close Lanzar Optidrive 500
> 3. Lanzar Optidrive 200/2200 nod to 2200
> 4. 3way tie Hifonics VII/VIII Olympus/Zeus, Autotek 7300/7600, Rodek 2150 slight nod to Rodek
> 5. Adcom
> 6. PPI art a600
> 7. Soundstream ref. 1000/500
> 8. Orion 2150sx
> 9. Phoenix Gold MS2125
> 10. ESX 175.2 & 120.2


What do you mean by testing?
Auditioning maybe?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


----------



## ou812

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> What do you mean by testing?
> Auditioning maybe?
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Wondering the same thing.


----------



## SilkySlim

I guess testing was a bad choice of words testing was the initial wiring to check to make sure they worked. Auditioning much better choice sorry guys. I guess I used a hot poker to stir this up. 

I do like the old alpines the 3555, and 3554 were great amps also the dual mono block design. The alpines are in my top twenty. They were a great value back then. Now the prices have equalized a bit.

This list was my preference. Most that have auditioned have felt the same way about the top one. The others rearranged the top ten by their preference. I feel confident the last nine in my list could be used to build a fantastic system. Obviously they are very close.

They all had qualities that were good. I used PPI art for 12+years and they were great. 
They were auditioned using a Cambridge Audio 650BR, 840E pre amp. Also used a pioneer 880, auditioned on Morel Octave home speakers, and hand matched RBH sound T30-LSE speakers full range. So I tried out the amps on the morels for a comparison on how they would sound that I planned on running. Then I put the amps under a much bigger full range load with the T30-LSE. Very revealing to say the least.


----------



## SilkySlim

It started as a test to see if amps had problems in a controlled environment, but then turned into we have a nicer source than most use in cars also nicer speakers and more controlled environment for equal base line comparisons. Then it was on like donky kong. 100's and hundreds of hours of auditioning later and decisions made.


----------



## RNBRAD

SilkySlim said:


> I guess testing was a bad choice of words testing was the initial wiring to check to make sure they worked. Auditioning much better choice sorry guys. I guess I used a hot poker to stir this up.
> 
> I do like the old alpines the 3555, and 3554 were great amps also the dual mono block design. The alpines are in my top twenty. They were a great value back then. Now the prices have equalized a bit.
> 
> This list was my preference. Most that have auditioned have felt the same way about the top one. The others rearranged the top ten by their preference. I feel confident the last nine in my list could be used to build a fantastic system. Obviously they are very close.
> 
> They all had qualities that were good. I used PPI art for 12+years and they were great.
> They were auditioned using a Cambridge Audio 650BR, 840E pre amp. Also used a pioneer 880, auditioned on Morel Octave home speakers, and hand matched RBH sound T30-LSE speakers full range. So I tried out the amps on the morels for a comparison on how they would sound that I planned on running. Then I put the amps under a much bigger full range load with the T30-LSE. Very revealing to say the least.


Alpine 3554 and 3550 I ran before I got my Macs. Great amps, sound superb. Problem is I've killed every Alpine amp I've ever owned, and that's been several. Great performers, but life span is about 5-7 yrs.


----------



## SilkySlim

Agreed not always the easiest to fix but I had a 3555 i gave my bro. And it lasted 15yrs. I got it back and it dropped 2 ch while on loan to a buddy. But it ran a pair of oz separates and pair of oz 8" for about 10-11 yrs in one vehcle. Debating on repairing.


----------



## SilkySlim

I guess Shawnk or trickyricky will look forward to seeing it oneday. LOL


----------



## deeper1

Not much on the market can compete with this one imo. Run it @2ohm, if your speakers can hang, to use its potential. 
REF4 920 Soundstream 4 CH Amp 1840W Max Components Speakers Tweeters Amplifier 709483032361 | eBay


----------



## ecobass

I am new to old school amps but, is that soundstream reference consider an old school amp? reading the description reads that they were released in 2009? 

First time I've see this amp so not sure, I also thought amp's from the 90's & earlier were considered old school amps.


----------



## CK1991

Maybe thats a reissue?


----------



## rmenergy

ecobass said:


> Thanks for the info silkyslim! I am really intrigued about old school amps that I've decided to sell my JL Audio Hd 900/5 and put the money towards 3 separate 2- channel old school amps like the PG MS2125 PPi art a600.2 etc for a 2-way + sub active set up.
> 
> I would still like to hear some reviews/personal opinions on the US Amps hybrid/ tube Class A- A/B amps ...


I've heard mixed reviews of them but liked mine. Sold it on here a couple years ago. I used to run a Bravox/Morel front stage with mine (TU4360 I believe was the model 75x4). Thing was bullet proof. I would rock out on a 4-5hr drive and it would hardly be warm. Sound was a bit dry/sterile compared to the Monolithic that replaced it but overall a great amp.

I say if you want to try one go for it.


----------



## peenemunde

I just found a mint condition Xtant A6001 at a pawnshop about 3 weeks ago.... I don't even want to tell you how cheap I got it, for fear of peoples rage Let's just say it was FAR sub $100, pulled it apart to check out the internals and found the board spotless! It barely looks used at all. Currently looking to build my box for the system I plan to power it with. I've posted a thread in the Fabrication section for help on my box specs feel free to join in if you feel your knowledge is benefitial


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## SilkySlim

This is cool so many amps recommended and I would hesitate to put most on mine. I have run in my cars, ppi art, ppi am&m, ads, alpine 35xx, hifonics svi-SVIII, autotek btw and first white square looking mean machine the last of the zed made era, Esx, us acoustics USA-chrome, ppi Sedona, adcom, Rodek, soundstream reference, us amps, earthquake pa series, Orion, Original Lanzar opti drives, very good amps in there own right. Having my choices overall I choose the Lanzar's all day to me. All of these to me are good amps to build a system around though. I would not hesitate at all using any of them again. PG MS honorable mention as well.

This thread is like a trip down memory lane with so many great sounding cars I've heard.
Edit sorry missed the early XTants very honorable mention if you have the space.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## gprestonmoto

Secret Plans to be revealed soon.


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## MADXF

I'm not exactly the right guy to ask "what's best" as I haven't been exposed to it all, and I'm far from a listening genius, but here's my input.

I'm running a Kenwood KAC-923 for Oz Audio ME CS-130 front stage and a KAC-943 bridged for 2 x 12" VDO Dayton subs in IB config.

I've had the KAC-943 amp for about 13 years.
I had it powering the front stage off two channels and a bridged 2 ohm sub off the other 2 (yep 1 ohm load) for about 5 years before I got got the VDO subs. 
It has never missed a beat, the cooling fan goes mental but it's never shut down either thermal or overload. 
The KAC-923 is only new to me, about 9 months and I have nothing bad to report so far. 

Love these Japanese made amps.


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## thebigjimsho

Anything a/d/s/ would get my vote. P4100.2s with that uber-sexy black w/ metallic blue flake paint job...


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## ryanr7386

thebigjimsho said:


> Anything a/d/s/ would get my vote. P4100.2s with that uber-sexy black w/ metallic blue flake paint job...


PH15 or the .2. Several configurations available with that amp! 2-way or a 3-way front stage. Truly amazing SQ!


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## JPOSEY

What defines "Old School"? 5 years old? 10 years old? 20 years old? 30 years old?


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## smgreen20

Generally speaking, 10-20. 20-30 classic and 30+ I would say is vintage.


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## Silver Supra

Lots of great amps listed here but nobody mentioned the Alphasonik GP-2100 which was one of their class-A designs. It was a great amplifier before Alphasonik started making junk.

I also really liked my Adcom, and PG MS-275. I've always liked the old Soundstream amps but never owned one, same goes for H/K TC-600. That was a beast of an amp.

I still like the old 35xx series of Alpines too.


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## SilkySlim

What's up silver surfer? Nice additions I have a definite addition.My new champion and favorite amp of all times is a modded Lanzar opti 2500!      The best sounding out of the box (other than mods) amp you can find. Even not modded one of the top for sure. Many people are afraid to put that kind of power on miss and highs but are greatly rewarded when they do and use it responsibly.

Respect to those mentioned like the Adcom, early soudstream's, both can be modded easily by a tech and upgraded considerably. That's not too say they aren't very good strait out of the box.


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## vwdave

I've had some of the amps mentioned here...this is how Id rank the amps I've owned:

1) McIntosh mc440 (ran Dynaudio 3ways)
2) Phoenix gold zpa0.5 (running Dynaudio 3ways)
3) ppi pc4100 (ran MB quart q series, lates 90s)
4) mtx thunder 4300x (ran Boston pro 5.5 then MB quart q series)
5) JL audio 300/4 (ran MB quart q series)

The last two were a tie as I wouldn't consider either sq amps but are excellent mid line amps.

Other amps that I've heard but not owned, but would rank them high: pg zx450 (and all similar zx iterations), PG MS series, PG limited edition (reactor, Route 66, frank-amp-n-stein, son of frank, octane, outlaw), PPI art , any PPI PC class, xtant (wasn't it owned by MTX?), lanzar optidrive (I've been considering buying one for fun), orion xtr series...all of those are amps I have heard and wanted to own, but never got around to it.


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## VaOldSchool

Well...there are a LOT of great amps listed here. As someone who grew up in the age of car audio and competed in the late 80's to 1990...I can honestly say there are some important things to consider before you can post a ranking. Is there a power class we're considering? What do you listen to? What volume level do you like to "audition" at typically? What kind of source? What kind of music do you like? All these play a part in the audition and I've found that much like a marriage...lol...a lot depends on your answers to those questions. Somethings just work well together inexplicably. I've done A-B comparisons with amps side by side and then done the same in a different car and found a different result. There are a LOT of variables, and I truly believe that most of what's mentioned is 100x better than anything produced today...because the quality of the components have gone down hill drastically. IMO! ...sans some of the outlandish stuff like Brax which can still hang, but for the money doesn't impress when put up against the stuff mentioned in this thread because of the cost involved. In my final, consumer class, IASCA competition in '90 I was running two MTX Terminator MTA-225's (and as someone mentioned earlier...yes the boards were made by PPI and the BTA Blue Thunder series boards were made by Orion) One bridged for the subs, and one running in stereo for the mids, and a HiFonics Odin VII for the highs. I took second in my '86 Cutlass Supreme  . I still swear that what kept me in the hunt in so many "crank up" contests was my HiFonics MR2 2" softdome mid-ranges. They reproduced natural smooth vocals like nothing I've ever heard in car audio at all volume ranges. The were soooo smooth...I would LOVE to find a set now. I've run MTX, Orion, RF, HiFonics, PPI, PG, Soundstream, Mac, Linear Power, US Amps, Alpine, and Autotek at one point or another, and heard almost everything else mentioned. Almost! (Never listened to / auditioned Lanzar...I'm curious now). I can honestly say that your answers to my questions above make a big difference in how I'd personally rank amps. If you've got an eclectic taste in music and like some volume once in a while...lol...(think Ozzy War Pigs live) then I'll stick with what I still own...my Orion NT100 and NT200 are about as good as I've heard at doing it ALL at ANY volume. Zapco and Audison sound very sweet, but when pushed they start to lose ground to my NT's...again IMO. I also still have, and love, my PPI AX 606.2 as a do it all amp along the lines of the A/D/S PH15, and the HiFonics Aphrodite.

This thread has been a great trip down memory lane!


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## rockytophigh

Soundstream MC500 was my fav.....I ran the Davinci in my last car, it would probably be 2nd.


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## SilkySlim

VaOldSchool said:


> Well...there are a LOT of great amps listed here. As someone who grew up in the age of car audio and competed in the late 80's to 1990...I can honestly say there are some important things to consider before you can post a ranking. Is there a power class we're considering? What do you listen to? What volume level do you like to "audition" at typically? What kind of source? What kind of music do you like? All these play a part in the audition and I've found that much like a marriage...lol...a lot depends on your answers to those questions. Somethings just work well together inexplicably. I've done A-B comparisons with amps side by side and then done the same in a different car and found a different result. There are a LOT of variables, and I truly believe that most of what's mentioned is 100x better than anything produced today...because the quality of the components have gone down hill drastically. IMO! ...sans some of the outlandish stuff like Brax which can still hang, but for the money doesn't impress when put up against the stuff mentioned in this thread because of the cost involved. In my final, consumer class, IASCA competition in '90 I was running two MTX Terminator MTA-225's (and as someone mentioned earlier...yes the boards were made by PPI and the BTA Blue Thunder series boards were made by Orion) One bridged for the subs, and one running in stereo for the mids, and a HiFonics Odin VII for the highs. I took second in my '86 Cutlass Supreme  . I still swear that what kept me in the hunt in so many "crank up" contests was my HiFonics MR2 2" softdome mid-ranges. They reproduced natural smooth vocals like nothing I've ever heard in car audio at all volume ranges. The were soooo smooth...I would LOVE to find a set now. I've run MTX, Orion, RF, HiFonics, PPI, PG, Soundstream, Mac, Linear Power, US Amps, Alpine, and Autotek at one point or another, and heard almost everything else mentioned. Almost! (Never listened to / auditioned Lanzar...I'm curious now). I can honestly say that your answers to my questions above make a big difference in how I'd personally rank amps. If you've got an eclectic taste in music and like some volume once in a while...lol...(think Ozzy War Pigs live) then I'll stick with what I still own...my Orion NT100 and NT200 are about as good as I've heard at doing it ALL at ANY volume. Zapco and Audison sound very sweet, but when pushed they start to lose ground to my NT's...again IMO. I also still have, and love, my PPI AX 606.2 as a do it all amp along the lines of the A/D/S PH15, and the HiFonics Aphrodite.
> 
> This thread has been a great trip down memory lane!


Awesome you aren't too far away maybe you can make it down to one of the NC meets sounds like you've tried many great amps. This questions are important. 
I tried to isolate outside influences on my auditions. Many amps surprise me. The old school Lanzar Opti's in my opinion are the best. Specifically the 500/2500 it just is amazing on everything mids, highs, midbass, subs and full range. I am plying with a few mods and it has opened up even more. Hopefully I'll have a car ready for the next meet.
Agreed those NT's    are hard to beat. One of the all time best SQ amps ever produced. Very impressive. 
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## tyroneshoes

Im about to switch up the setup and go back to my pre studio z series zapcos. They were scuffed up so I redid them in flat black.

Also love those sony es 2100g/260g series ya see in the back










debating running the z150s full range mono for right and left

Also the black and gold mtx amps were made after mtx grabbed staff from RF when they were making the nice black bbq grill RF punches. After the black rf's ended RF changed around staff. The black mtx amps was kind of continuation of the classic RF amps.


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## VaOldSchool

Sounds good where in NC? I've got family in Wilmington.


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## Jeep sq

A/D/S PH15.2 Use it to make an incredible front stage. I once had MB Quart 3 way components(1"tweeter, 3.5" mid and 8" woofer, very rare set so I bought another set) did not use the mb quart supplied crossovers and used an audiocontrol processor to feed the appropriate signals to the tweeter, mid and woofer channels on the PH15.2.

Now it was only 50 watts per channel but it sure as heck sounded like 100 watts per channel of possibly the cleanest sound I have ever heard even to this day. 

Eventually I duplicated theis setup(speakers and an additional PH15.2) for the rear. Kept that additional setup and will be using it in my next project.

Friends still talk about the sound...15 years later.


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## johnny23

I would prefer the blaupunkt velocity series, specifically the v2100 and the v7000. the v7000 on one of my cars really outmatch my soundstream reference amp. I believe the v7000 was one of the finest amps ever made!


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## Coshesey

Harman Kardon TC 600 for subs TC400q for active mid/highs. Rediculous detail, depth, punch. Easy to get the soundstage up in the windshield....


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## CrimsonNCream

This thread is VERY informative and interesting! I used to have a decent setup but I never understood the technical side of it. I am trying to find a clean power attractively priced OS four channel to run fronts and rears. I know they are only 2 channel but I do like the look of the MTX MTA amps. Right now I'm running an MTX blue Thunder 504 on some low end Kenwoods front+rear.


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## Rodek

I like the old school Rodek 224CI.


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## 2010hummerguy

Clarion/AddZest APA4300HX. McIntosh quality, Power Guard circuitry, direct RCA input bypasses the amp's preamp section, cool LED readout for wattage/amperage/voltage/temperature, rarer than McIntosh too. And it sounds incredible!


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## StockA4

Architect7 said:


> Clarion/AddZest APA4300HX.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Sweet baby Jesus! That amp definitely strikes me speechless.
> If you ever get the fool-headed notion to let that one go, I'm very close!


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## StockA4

I'm finding these to be quite suitable for Ess Que.








Inside








Can't forget the signal








It's passed by the one on top








Processing will be the XDP4000x just as soon as it gets here.


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## CrimsonNCream

Architect7 said:


> Clarion/AddZest APA4300HX. McIntosh quality, Power Guard circuitry, direct RCA input bypasses the amp's preamp section, cool LED readout for wattage/amperage/voltage/temperature, rarer than McIntosh too. And it sounds incredible!





StockA4 said:


> Architect7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Clarion/AddZest APA4300HX.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Sweet baby Jesus! That amp definitely strikes me speechless.
> If you ever get the fool-headed notion to let that one go, I'm very close!
> 
> 
> 
> That thing does look so sweet! Of course it actually functioning top notch is the priority buf having those bells and whistles makes a must own for anyone who can find one that can afford it.
Click to expand...


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## 2010hummerguy

StockA4 said:


> I'm finding these to be quite suitable for Ess Que.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't forget the signal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's passed by the one on top
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Processing will be the XDP4000x just as soon as it gets here.


Wow! Let me know if you ever sell any of your ES stuff. I have a C90/4000X acting as my office computer stereo right now, fed optical from the motherboard and all. Sounds sweet


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## StockA4

Architect7 said:


> Wow! Let me know if you ever sell any of your ES stuff. I have a C90/4000X acting as my office computer stereo right now, fed optical from the motherboard and all. Sounds sweet


...and our 1st place trophy for computer audio goes to Architect7!

That's just a beautiful thing. I have the 4000x on its way to me right now. Normally I'm a purveyor of all things Orion and PG. But I've recently been bitten by a Sony bug, (ouch). I'm 41 and have never competed. However, I decided I would do a complete Sony/PHD (with the exception of the sub) setup and compete. One reason is because the general consensus is that Sony sucks. So it will be funny to see the reaction to all this Sony.  And I'd like to throw my hat in the ring at least once in my life.


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## 2010hummerguy

Right on! I've never competed either but I am also considering it this year. I grew up in North Idaho where there are no competitions, spent the last 10 years focused on my career, finally slowing down to have some fun 

So you'll be using all M1 and M3 amps? I've never heard/seen them in person, let me know when you get them installed!

Today I am pulling my old OB baffles out of the garage and putting my RAAL ribbons and AP Arians on them to be driven by the C90/4000X/APA4300HX combo. Then a Shiva MKII powered by a Bash 500S to round out the bottom. I love this stuff


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## StockA4

Architect7 said:


> Right on! I've never competed either but I am also considering it this year. I grew up in North Idaho where there are no competitions, spent the last 10 years focused on my career, finally slowing down to have some fun
> 
> So you'll be using all M1 and M3 amps? I've never heard/seen them in person, let me know when you get them installed!
> 
> Today I am pulling my old OB baffles out of the garage and putting my RAAL ribbons and AP Arians on them to be driven by the C90/4000X/APA4300HX combo. Then a Shiva MKII powered by a Bash 500S to round out the bottom. I love this stuff


^^Dang! And good for you. It's never too late to have a little fun.

My setup is going to be much simpler. M3 on a Soundstream SS10r "Velvet Hammer". Maybe two. I'm leaning towards sq, so two may not be necessary. M1 on PHD AF 6.1 Pros, and a little XM-2020 on PHD AF 1.1c tweets. I decided to go active because I finally got a hold of a 4000x, and not doing so would be a complete waste. I wish I had the equipment and the room to run the 4 way that processor allows, but The MINI Cooper limits what I'm able to do.

I still have a ways to go. I do everything myself, and I'm on a budget. I need to raise the tweets up to my pillars. I was able to perform the necessary surgery on my doors to accept the monstrous mids I'm running, but I'm by no means a fabricator. So doing the pillars correctly is a bit of a concern for me. I'll get it handled though.

Here's what my doors look like now;








Those tweets are the 1.1's.
Here are the 1.1c's. I won't be using the housing.









Anyways, sorry to bore you. I just get excited over this. It's my hobby and my passion. Glad to see another local!


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## 2010hummerguy

Not boring in the least! That looks like a great install. What xover frequency do you plan to run between the mids and tweets? I just set up the RAALs/Arians in my office at a 4khz xover and the sound is amazing.


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## vwdave

StockA4 said:


> ...and our 1st place trophy for computer audio goes to Architect7!
> 
> That's just a beautiful thing. I have the 4000x on its way to me right now. Normally I'm a purveyor of all things Orion and PG. But I've recently been bitten by a Sony bug, (ouch). I'm 41 and have never competed. However, I decided I would do a complete Sony/PHD (with the exception of the sub) setup and compete. One reason is because the general consensus is that Sony sucks. So it will be funny to see the reaction to all this Sony.  And I'd like to throw my hat in the ring at least once in my life.


It's too easy to forget that there was a time when sony made decent car audio...actually more than decent, they had some of the best stuff out there, and that's what you are using. I'd love to hear that setup. A buddy of mine had an A4 with a c90, 4000x and those huge mobile es amps running Dynaudio up front and a crystal cmp sub. This was 13 years ago. That system partly inspired my setup.



Architect7 said:


> Right on! I've never competed either but I am also considering it this year. I grew up in North Idaho where there are no competitions, spent the last 10 years focused on my career, finally slowing down to have some fun
> 
> So you'll be using all M1 and M3 amps? I've never heard/seen them in person, let me know when you get them installed!
> 
> Today I am pulling my old OB baffles out of the garage and putting my RAAL ribbons and AP Arians on them to be driven by the C90/4000X/APA4300HX combo. Then a Shiva MKII powered by a Bash 500S to round out the bottom. I love this stuff


I used to compete, it's really fun. You have to go into remembering that you built your system for you and that judges might now hear it the way you do. It's easy to score high on the RTA with a well tuned eq but the subjective part is where it can go either really well or horribly bad. Don't take it too hard, you can take their advise and make their recommended adjustments for next time or just go home enjoying it the way YOU like it. That was tough for me to do when I used to compete because I was in my early 20s and I "knew it all".


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## StockA4

Excellent, Dave. You nailed it; my biggest reason is fun and sharing the absolute enjoyment I get out of my equipment. I had a couple different choices; I chose Sony because of how they perform, (which is flawlessly) and I wanted to show that they didn't always have a big red X and max ratings splashed all over them.

As far as crossover points, I'll have to play with that. So far I've been using the passives from my set. They are actually quite nice, but I have no information on them. When I get the 4000x in my hands I'll start in the 2500 range at 18db. I'm not sure if I'll be able to set my own crossover points with a laptop or what. I do know it's one beast of a processor and I'll be spending quite awhile learning how to use it.

Also...I'm agog and aghast over the black AND white ZPA's! Wow!


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## vwdave

StockA4 said:


> Excellent, Dave. You nailed it; my biggest reason is fun and sharing the absolute enjoyment I get out of my equipment. I had a couple different choices; I chose Sony because of how they perform, (which is flawlessly) and I wanted to show that they didn't always have a big red X and max ratings splashed all over them.
> 
> As far as crossover points, I'll have to play with that. So far I've been using the passives from my set. They are actually quite nice, but I have no information on them. When I get the 4000x in my hands I'll start in the 2500 range at 18db. I'm not sure if I'll be able to set my own crossover points with a laptop or what. I do know it's one beast of a processor and I'll be spending quite awhile learning how to use it.
> 
> Also...I'm agog and aghast over the black AND white ZPA's! Wow!


Haha well thanks.

Yea crossover points are tricky but I'm sure you'll figure it all out.


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## 2010hummerguy

StockA4 said:


> Excellent, Dave. You nailed it; my biggest reason is fun and sharing the absolute enjoyment I get out of my equipment. I had a couple different choices; I chose Sony because of how they perform, (which is flawlessly) and I wanted to show that they didn't always have a big red X and max ratings splashed all over them.
> 
> As far as crossover points, I'll have to play with that. So far I've been using the passives from my set. They are actually quite nice, but I have no information on them. When I get the 4000x in my hands I'll start in the 2500 range at 18db. I'm not sure if I'll be able to set my own crossover points with a laptop or what. I do know it's one beast of a processor and I'll be spending quite awhile learning how to use it.
> 
> Also...I'm agog and aghast over the black AND white ZPA's! Wow!


Yeah that is the downside of the 4000x, very fixed inconvenient crossovers. No 18db slopes, only 24, 36, 72 or two of those. And 2-way crossover sucks...jumps from 1.25khz to 4khz. Works for my ribbons but not a good fit for everything else.


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