# DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 & USB AUDIO Card



## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

Hi guys,

Can we please get an up to date thread on what Digital Audio Players people are using on here? Even if you’re using a different DSP or head unit.

I’m thinking of getting a DAP that either plugs straight into the digital coaxial input of the Helix Pro Mk2 DSP or a DAP that goes into the HEC HD AUDIO USB card. 

I’m thinking of one of the following:
- Fiio X7ii with digital coax out
- Pioneer XDP-300R with USB audio out...however I’ve read that a lot of car head units don’t recognise the XDP DAP, but I’m hoping the HEC HD AUDIO USB card will.
- Onkyo DP-X1A with USB audio out.

What are people’s thoughts and feel free to reply with DAP experiences or suggestions for others. Thank you


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

The Fiio x5 and x7 now offer USB audio out, but the reviews of the units themselves are not great so i am holding off making a purchase. Hope this thread gets some traction.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



miniSQ said:


> The Fiio x5 and x7 now offer USB audio out, but the reviews of the units themselves are not great so i am holding off making a purchase. Hope this thread gets some traction.




Exactly my thoughts, plus apparently the Fiio’s are a little glitchy and aren’t that refined (GUI wise) before they’re released


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Well I have the Fiio X5 and have been happy with mine. Again I am no way a DAP expert, but when something works for me, I tend to be happy with it. I’m sure there are readily ones that will blow mine out the water, but without a cost factor I’m not sure how much those would cost.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

Coppertone said:


> Well I have the Fiio X5 and have been happy with mine. Again I am no way a DAP expert, but when something works for me, I tend to be happy with it. I’m sure there are readily ones that will blow mine out the water, but without a cost factor I’m not sure how much those would cost.




Thanks Coppertone thats great to hear. How would you say the X5iii sounds on your car audio system vs using the internal amp with quality headphones?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I am on my third Fiio X3 and I have no complaints. Connected via coax to MiniDSP on my cars and even one for my home audio... 
Personally, I would never go back to swapping out factory HUs for aftermarket or using factory HUs as source... It's really nice using DAPs, imho. 

As far as which one to get, I would spend time on headfi.org. You will come across great DAPs that you have never heard of that outperform many of the better known brands.


Edit: Check out Shanling and Cayin


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

DavidRam said:


> I am on my third Fiio X3 and I have no complaints. Connected via coax to MiniDSP on my cars and even one for my home audio...
> 
> Personally, I would never go back to swapping out factory HUs for aftermarket or using factory HUs as source... It's really nice using DAPs, imho.
> 
> ...




Great advice, thanks bud. And yes 
I’ve already spent a little bit of time on headfi.org already but there’s soooo many more posts I need to read. I’m just hoping that the DAP I finally settle on will be completely compatible with my Helix DSP


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

mechatron said:


> Great advice, thanks bud. And yes
> I’ve already spent a little bit of time on headfi.org already but there’s soooo many more posts I need to read. I’m just hoping that the DAP I finally settle on will be completely compatible with my Helix DSP


I hear ya... As long as it connects properly, there shouldn't be any issues. Keep in mind you'll need to use the remotes volume as your main... So plan on placing the remote somewhere convenient (if you haven't already). I'm sure you know this stuff already.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

DavidRam said:


> I hear ya... As long as it connects properly, there shouldn't be any issues. Keep in mind you'll need to use the remotes volume as your main... So plan on placing the remote somewhere convenient (if you haven't already). I'm sure you know this stuff already.




Yeah that’s right. I was actually quite interested in getting the Pioneer XDP-300R over the Fiio units as I’ve heard they’re a little more stable, however after reading on headfi.org, many guys cannot get audio to play when connected to their car head units ... so I’m hoping that’s not the case when connecting the XDP-300R directly to the HEC-USB card in the Helix DSP.

And thanks buddy, I’m still learning a little but yes I figured I’d have to use the Helix Director for volume control. Now I just need to determine where I mount the DAP and Director once they’re installed in a few months. 

Please note I do currently use a Pioneer AVIC-F70DAB head unit (similar to your AVIC-7201NEX) playing FLAC files from a SD card then going into a Arc PS8 however I’m really keen to try a DAP as a music source straight into the Helix (when it replaces the PS8). I do have the Helix already however there’s a lot of rewiring to be done to get it into my car as it needs to be moved due to being significantly taller in height than the PS8


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

mechatron said:


> Yeah that’s right. I was actually quite interested in getting the Pioneer XDP-300R over the Fiio units as I’ve heard they’re a little more stable, however after reading on headfi.org, many guys cannot get audio to play when connected to their car head units ... so I’m hoping that’s not the case when connecting the XDP-300R directly to the HEC-USB card in the Helix DSP.
> 
> And thanks buddy, I’m still learning a little but yes I figured I’d have to use the Helix Director for volume control. Now I just need to determine where I mount the DAP and Director once they’re installed in a few months.
> 
> Please note I do currently use a Pioneer AVIC-F70DAB head unit (similar to your AVIC-7201NEX) playing FLAC files from a SD card then going into a Arc PS8 however I’m really keen to try a DAP as a music source straight into the Helix (when it replaces the PS8). I do have the Helix already however there’s a lot of rewiring to be done to get it into my car as it needs to be moved due to being significantly taller in height than the PS8


Not sure what vehicle you have... On my current car, I made a faceplate of sorts to house all of the audio related stuff: dsp remote w/volume, Fiio x3, bass knob and usb for charging phones. Very convenient and easy to use. 










On my previous Jeep, I just mounted the dap to the 4x4 shifter with a handle bar phone mount, and mounted the dsp remote in the dash, under the steering column (which was a little less convenient). 



















Just some ideas...


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



DavidRam said:


> Not sure what vehicle you have... On my current car, I made a faceplate of sorts to house all of the audio related stuff: dsp remote w/volume, Fiio x3, bass knob and usb for charging phones. Very convenient and easy to use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some great ideas there bud. Thanks for the photos too...really nicely done, especially your current setup. And my car is a 2004 Holden Commodore SS that would have similar interior to a 2004 Pontiac GTO


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*

Has anyone on here used the iBasso DX150 in their car?
http://ibasso.com/cp_xq_dy.php?id=6517#page8

As I just want to make sure the Helix Pro Mk2 DSP is completely compatible with the digital coax out from the iBasso DX150 audio wise.


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## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

The Coax in should work as long as it's a pcm stream from the dap.
Just make sure you have the digital audio volume turned up as there are 2 level controls when using the digital or hec inputs. 
Really like that little iBasso unit, I went with the FiiO X5 mp3 as I got a good deal on it.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

geartech said:


> The Coax in should work as long as it's a pcm stream from the dap.
> Just make sure you have the digital audio volume turned up as there are 2 level controls when using the digital or hec inputs.
> Really like that little iBasso unit, I went with the FiiO X5 mp3 as I got a good deal on it.




That’s great info thanks mate. Yes you’re right, most DAPs with digital out will have a PCM stream.

Now to determine if I get the Fiio X5iii ($450 AU) or get the ibasso DX150 for $300 more. What are your thoughts on the X5iii? Does it crash often? Or is there anything you don’t like about it or wish it had?


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## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

Mine has been solid so far, no crashes at all, Skizer could answer better than I can though as he has used the FiiO longer than I have. 
The FiiO seems to do everything I need it to do and probably more, I cant really think of anything I wish it had.

The extra for the iBasso probably wont be noticed, the better converters aren't used when the PCM stream is fed to the Helix DSP.
The AKM dac's in the Helix do all the work.

Astell Kern makes a nice DAP that wont break the bank.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

geartech said:


> Mine has been solid so far, no crashes at all, Skizer could answer better than I can though as he has used the FiiO longer than I have.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for you input I really appreciate it. With the Fiio X5iii do you notice any lag or unresponsiveness at times with the 1GB RAM or does it have smooth operation like an iPhone? Also have you listened to the X5iii with headphones as yet, how does it sound using its own DACs/Amplification?


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Nobody using carplay or google auto? I got to have my steering controld


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

dcfis said:


> Nobody using carplay or google auto? I got to have my steering controld




Yes I am. 








However after building a great SQ system over the last 4 years I really want a Hi-Res source that digitally connects directly into the processor. I also want to reduce a few D->A conversions too


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## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

I have not used the earphones, Mine is solely for the car.
As far as it being unresponsive I haven't experienced anything like that with it.
For storage I use the SD cards I have in it, So far with a 256gb and 128gb sd installed it has worked flawlessly. 
The only issue I have has has been when my RM-1 bluetooth remote battery died.

I really wish someone made a tablet size DAP that I could fit under my factory radio, The small ones are nice for carrying around but are a little hard to use in the car.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

geartech said:


> I have not used the earphones, Mine is solely for the car.
> 
> As far as it being unresponsive I haven't experienced anything like that with it.
> 
> ...




Thanks for sharing your experiences bud. It sounds like the X5iii is nice and stable nowadays. I’ve just read many early posts on headfi.org where there were quite a few complaints about the unit crashing & having glitchy software etc. Obviously Fiio have sorted the these issues with newer firmware .

As for larger DAPs, have you thought about possibly using a phone like the LG V30 or the Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra. Here’s a size comparison between the X7ii and the Sony phone (4” vs 6” screen)


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## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

Those are possibilities, If I can get my HEC-HD usb to work I can use my tablet.
For some reason I have not had any luck getting any of my USB devices to play thru the HEC in my Mk2.
If I cant get the USB to work I found and Musical Fidelity V-LINK to convert my USB audio to SPDIF, Its not quite what I wanted to do but if it works then great. 
I have the perfect place to mount my Samsung tablet in my center console that I have been trying to get working for a week now with no luck.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



geartech said:


> Those are possibilities, If I can get my HEC-HD usb to work I can use my tablet.
> 
> For some reason I have not had any luck getting any of my USB devices to play thru the HEC in my Mk2.
> 
> ...


Yeah a tablet is definitely the go when driving. Most of the time I’ll just use my Pioneer headunit with CarPlay and FLAC filled SD card. However when sitting in my car to enjoy what my system is really capable of doing I really want to use a hi-res DAP (like the X5iii) as the source


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## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

So I've tried just about everything I could to get the USB HEC working with no luck. 
Tried a different set of OTG cables, different player software for both my tablet and my X5 mk3 even tried a PC with the Audiotech Fischer drivers installed.
It will switch over like it sees the signal when I press play on the DAP or PC but no audio.
Audio files are FLAC so DoP and D2P shouldn't be a factor but I have it set to D2P
My Coax SPDIF work perfectly with the X5 so no great loss. 
If someone wants to test this USB HEC just let me know and I'll ship it to ya.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

geartech said:


> So I've tried just about everything I could to get the USB HEC working with no luck.
> 
> Tried a different set of OTG cables, different player software for both my tablet and my X5 mk3 even tried a PC with the Audiotech Fischer drivers installed.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the heads up on this geartech. I too was going to try the X5iii (when I get it soon) with both digital coax and USB as I have the HEC USB HD AUDIO card with my Helix DSP too. Now I know not to even bother. I’ll just leave the HEC USB HD AUDIO card for my iPhone and the digital coax for the X5iii


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## DarmoZ (May 20, 2016)

Great Thread! Iv'e learned a lot.

Firstly, let me say i also like the idea of connecting a digital source directly into a DSP, as this reduces the number cables and devices the audio has to go through and also the the number of DAC's (to 1). In today's world where our library's are in Tidal/Spotify/Apple Music, it makes perfect sense, for pure music listening purposes there's no need for a head unit these days.

With that in mind, i have long wondered and searched for a DSP that is 'made for ipod/iphone' so i can plug the phone directly into it via USB and it can read the files much like a docking station or a modern head unit does. It appears this thread has answered my question as i wasn't aware of the Helix product line before. The HEC card appears to solve this exact need, although i wonder why they didn't build it into the DSP to begin with instead of having to purchase a separate card. I also like the 'Director' controller, looks much better than the Alpine and Audison DSP product offerings.

It appears from this thread however that the HEC USB input only works with IOS and Android devices and wont accept USB digital audio from any other device such as a DAP, which means you have to use the Optical/Coaxial in these cases.

This got me pondering a couple questions...

1) Why even bother with buying a DAP if you can simply pug the IOS/Android phone directly into the HEC via USB. Is there a difference to using a DAP that is going in via the optical route?

2) If answer to above is yes then what is the difference? say you have a DAP with Tidal on it such as the Fiio X7ii or Onkyo DP-X1A going to the HEC via optical playing a track. You also have an Iphone with Tidal playing the same track into the HEC via the USB cable. Is there any difference or advantage of one over the other? 

I understand that the DAP has to convert the audio file into a PCM stream to send over optical to the HEC, is there anything lost in this process or any DAC happening on the DAP side? 

With the Iphone connected via USB, it is reading the audio file directly of the IPhone? Or perhaps the iphone also converts to a PCM stream, maybe apple only knows how it's lightening port outputs digital audio, hence why third party companies have to license their products 'made for iphone'.

Sorry for any long winded and possibly dumb questions, fairly new here


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*

The reason I want a DAP is purely for a storage device of my own...as the X5iii can accept two 256GB micro SD cards whereas my work iPhone is only 16GB 
Also I’m led to believe that USB can be a little noisy and can be fiddly to setup whereas a DAP with digital coax out just plugs straight into the Helix Pro Mk2 DSP and just works straight away. I too have the HEC USB card so I may just use that for Tidal/Spotify on my iPhone as these streaming services just seem to work better on a smart phone. Also the smart phones obviously have cellular inbuilt whereas the DAP would need to use the phone as a personal hotspot to stream data when in the car anyway (ie away from a modem/wifi)


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## DarmoZ (May 20, 2016)

*Re: DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



mechatron said:


> The reason I want a DAP is purely for a storage device of my own...as the X5iii can accept two 256GB micro SD cards whereas my work iPhone is only 16GB
> Also I’m led to believe that USB can be a little noisy and can be fiddly to setup whereas a DAP with digital coax out just plugs straight into the Helix Pro Mk2 DSP and just works straight away. I too have the HEC USB card so I may just use that for Tidal/Spotify on my iPhone as these streaming services just seem to work better on a smart phone. Also the smart phones obviously have cellular inbuilt whereas the DAP would need to use the phone as a personal hotspot to stream data when in the car anyway (ie away from a modem/wifi)


That makes sense. I agree the apps works better on the phone although i'm sure the Android based DAP's will only get better. You raised a good point there about no 4G/LTE on the DAP. of course Hotspot is a work around but just makes things cumbersome when a passenger says 'oh can you play this song for me' lol. Also didnt realise the USB option can be fiddly at times. 

With all that taken into account i think the best option for me is to save money on a DAP and instead get the highest storage iphone there is (i believe 256gb) and use via USB. If the USB option is proving fiddly can always buy the apple CCK kit and then an adaptor to go lightening port to Optical.

However i have read that the Apple digital out has a max sampling rate of 48khz, meaning if you have 96khz files in tidal or on the phone they get down sampled to 48.

So actually maybe the DAP is the better option after all.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Good thread - good discussion - there was an earlier thread with much of the same info, but can’t link it here in Tapatalk. 

I have the following sources:
Pioneer P99 - RCA out into Helix Pro2
FiiO X5iii - coax out to Helix Pro2
iPhone - USB into Helix Pro 2

I have really enjoyed the FiiO - I travel a lot, so it is useful for CIEMs and for a source at headphone meets (plug directly into DACs via coax). Yes - I have my issues with the player (longer start up period than the ii but to be expected), hard button pause is my biggest complaint). 

I downloaded the HiByMusic app, and that doesn’t have the pause issue, but it runs on the Android side, so start up, the start up that app. I find the GUI on it more confusing as well. 

I hadn’t reviewed the Head-Fi thread in a while (some of those guys are whiny) - I hadn’t read that it supports USB out. My path was going to be add the USB cable, use the phone until the FiiO supports USB, then pull the coax. Not sure I will do that. Both sound equivalent to me and many I have had in the car (both sound a lot better than the P99 - to me and several who have been in my car). 

I love having 32GB internal memory + two 256 cards in the FiiO - whatever mood strikes me. But...if I’m just running out to the store and back, I like hooking the iPhone X to the system - faster and easier.....just limited on what I can listen to. 

Hope this helps - feel free to ask specific questions, and I’ll try to answer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DarmoZ (May 20, 2016)

bertholomey said:


> Good thread - good discussion - there was an earlier thread with much of the same info, but can’t link it here in Tapatalk.
> 
> I have the following sources:
> Pioneer P99 - RCA out into Helix Pro2
> ...


Very nice set-up, what do you use the P99 for out of curiosity?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Turns the system on......

And that is not needed with signal sensing, but I prefer a ‘hard’ on/off - turning off the system before turning off the car every time. 

There are those occasions of giving a demo with someone’s preferred demo disc - I like having the opportunity to play a disc. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> Turns the system on......
> 
> And that is not needed with signal sensing, but I prefer a ‘hard’ on/off - turning off the system before turning off the car every time.
> 
> ...



Jason did we ever come to the conclusion on Fiio coax vs iPhone? I can hardly tell a difference but maybe my (your former) X5ii signal is slightly stronger. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Babs said:


> Jason did we ever come to the conclusion on Fiio coax vs iPhone? I can hardly tell a difference but maybe my (your former) X5ii signal is slightly stronger.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




I have done A/B with several folks......you have to really want one to sound better than the other (same track, same file type and bit rate, level matched in the Helix tool and Director,etc.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

mechatron said:


> Has anyone on here used the iBasso DX150 in their car?
> iBasso DX150
> 
> As I just want to make sure the Helix Pro Mk2 DSP is completely compatible with the digital coax out from the iBasso DX150 audio wise.


I use my iBasso DX90 & DX200 via Coaxial Digital Output into the Helix DSP PRO MK2 with no issues. FYI, as long as the Coax Digital Output from the DAP is a standard S/PDIF PCM signal (and AFAIK all DAPs are), it should work perfectly.

I also use the 8" _Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0_ LTE/WiFi Phablet (#SM-T715Y) as the source in my car audio systems. It is connected using the small OEM Samsung USB OTG Adapter & a generic USB cable to the Helix DSP's USB HEC input...and it works great. It is basically identical in size and form factor to the iPad Mini.

I've also used the tiny _SMSL X-USB XMOS USB_ adapter to extract Optical or Coaxial Digital from the Tab S2 into the corresponding Helix DSP inputs, and that has worked great as well.

As my Music Playback app, I usually use _USB Audio Player Pro_, which has a Custom Audio Kernel that completely bypasses the standard Android/Samsung audio kernel in order to provide true, bit-perfect DSD & Hi-Res WAV and FLAC playback. The developers of the _UAPP_ app are VERY active in updating the app to add & improve features, and IMO it just keeps getting better and better. Combined with the large, clear, and bright 8" SuperAMOLED screen on the Tab S2, this UI is quite usable.

But everyone will have their own personal preferences regarding what Music Player apps they like best, as each one has somewhat different features, GUI's, and customization capabilities.

This particular 8" Samsung Phablet is also a GSM Cellular Phone, so it has LTE/HSPA+ Data & Calling via a nano SIM card...So I can easily use Streaming Services and use it for Google NAV, etc.

The _Galaxy Tab S2_ also has a single microSD card slot which currently has a 400gb microSD card in it for music storage. I use the 8" Tab S2 with my original iPhone Unlimited Plan SIM on AT&T. THE 8" Phablet actually fits in nearly all of my back pants pockets, which makes it easily portable for regular every-day tablet use.

The Galaxy Tab S2 also has Apt-X Bluetooth, which sounds excellent when using my AKG N5005 IEMs with its included Apt-X BT adapter or in my car audio systems as well.

I also had the newer HiBy R6 DAP, but my unit had WiFi connection issues so I sold it. I am really hoping that HiBy updates the Hardware to fix this common issue. I wanted the HiBy R6 DAP in order to Stream music via Tidal HiFi and other services, so its WiFi connection issues made it a No-Go. Otherwise this was an AMAZING DAP, especially at the price!!! It has a true Snapdragon processor and 3GB of RAM so the UI was MUCH smoother & faster than any of the newer FiiO or other DAPs that I've tried.

Only the really expensive Astell & Kern DAPs ($2000+) have really good/fast processors and plenty of RAM. Nearly all other DAPs use old, cheap, weak ARM Cortex processors and have limited RAM so IMO they are much more laggy than your typical Smartphone, which is frustrating for me, _especially for use in a vehicle_.

Overall, when using a DAP combined with one of the Helix DSPs, I think that the easiest and most reliable connection is to use the coaxial digital output. And I really haven't experienced any deficiencies in SQ when using Coaxial over the other connection methods. This also allows standard charging of the device using the USB port. The only drawback is that you have to make two connections instead of one in order to achieve audio output + charging.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Hey. Does that Android audio app do anything for using the aux out for Spotify?


bbfoto said:


> I use my iBasso DX90 & DX200 via Coaxial Digital Output into the Helix DSP PRO MK2 with no issues. FYI, as long as the Coax Digital Output from the DAP is a standard S/PDIF PCM signal (and AFAIK all DAPs are), it should work perfectly.
> 
> I also use a 8" _Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0_ LTE/WiFi Phablet (#SM-T715Y) as the source in my car audio systems. It is connected using the small OEM Samsung USB OTG Adapter & a generic USB cable to the Helix DSP's USB HEC input...and it works great. It is basically identical in size and form factor to the iPad Mini.
> 
> ...


Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Hey. Does that Android audio app do anything for using the aux out for Spotify?



No, sorry. The _UAPP_ app only uses its Custom, Hi-Res capable, Bit-Perfect Audio Kernel when connecting via USB to a USB DAC.

To my knowledge there is no advantage when using the analog HP output from the Android device into an AUX input, other than being able to use the custom EQ functions within the app.

EDITED: 

However, the *Hiby R6* DAP is _supposed_ to use a Custom Audio Kernel as well, called "Direct Transport Audio" (DTA) which Hiby claims WILL work with 3rd Party Streaming Apps such as Spotify, Pandora, Tidal, etc. This would apply to both its analog Headphone and Line Outputs in addition to USB DAC connections.

Check the Indiegogo campaign page and the Head-Fi thread for details. I'm not sure if "DTA" has been enabled yet for some or any of these streaming apps, but HiBy says it will come in the future if it's not active now.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hiby-r6-worlds-most-advanced-android-hi-fi-player


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

That's fine. Curious about the Spotify thing tho.


bbfoto said:


> No, sorry. The _UAPP_ app only uses its Custom, Hi-Res capable, Bit-Perfect Audio Kernel when connecting via USB to a USB DAC.
> 
> To my knowledge there is no advantage when using the analog HP output from the Android device into an AUX input, other than being able to use the custom EQ functions within the app.


Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Jscoyne2 said:


> That's fine. Curious about the Spotify thing tho.


Check my EDITED post above for more info.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Looked into it a lil. How is it supposed to stream music? Is it a phone or just a WiFi enabled iPod basically. 

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Looked into it a lil. How is it supposed to stream music? Is it a phone or just a WiFi enabled iPod basically.


The HiBy R6 is basically a Hi-Res WiFi-enabled iPod and/or very similar to the FiiO X5-III or X7-II, iBasso, and Astell & Kern DAPs. It is not a cell phone and doesn't have its own cellular data capabilities. Just 2.4ghz & 5ghz WiFi and Bluetooth with Apt-X.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

;5541921 said:


> I use my iBasso DX90 & DX200 via Coaxial Digital Output into the Helix DSP PRO MK2 with no issues. FYI, as long as the Coax Digital Output from the DAP is a standard S/PDIF PCM signal (and AFAIK all DAPs are), it should work perfectly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That’s great information. Thank you very much for the detailed reply bbfoto.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



bertholomey said:


> Good thread - good discussion - there was an earlier thread with much of the same info, but can’t link it here in Tapatalk.
> 
> I have the following sources:
> Pioneer P99 - RCA out into Helix Pro2
> ...




That’s exactly what I wanted to hear, thanks bud. At the moment I’m actually tossing up between the iBasso DX150 and the Fiio X5iii but really swaying towards the latter as I’ve seen videos of the DX150 where there’s random 3-4 sec delays between pressing play and scrolling between screens... although hopefully this has been sorted with firmware updates. I’ve also heard that Fiio generally do model updates every 18 months so maybe I wait for the X5 Gen4. I also want to do exactly the same thing as yourself - running the iPhone into the HEC USB card and connecting the new DAP directly to the Helix DSP by digital coax. The small screen size of the DAP doesn’t bother me as I generally wouldn’t play it while driving. For that I’d use my Pioneer AVIC head unit with CarPlay or FLAC songs via SD card as it has a much bigger screen obviously.

And you’re exactly right about some of the guys on that Headfi forum. They whine about the littlest things yet they want the perfect DAP for peanuts. Just on your Fiio X5iii, with the long start up times is that when you first power it up after going flat or is the long startup time there every time the X5iii goes to sleep? And have you had an issues where the X5iii has glitched on the screen or crashed?

Thank you


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

mechatron said:


> That’s great information. Thank you very much for the detailed reply bbfoto.


No worries. I should also state that both of my iBasso DAPs sound absolutely fantastic when connected via their Analog Line Outputs to the Helix DSP PRO MK2's analog RCA line inputs. You might need to pay a bit more attention to your gain structure to achieve optimum S/N during setup, but otherwise the analog line output is indistinguishable from the digital connection (and I don't know how, but in some cases I *think* the analog connection may sound better)! :surprised:


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

bbfoto said:


> No worries. I should also state that both of my iBasso DAPs sound absolutely fantastic when connected via their Analog Line Outputs to the Helix DSP PRO MK2's analog RCA line inputs. You might need to pay a bit more attention to your gain structure to achieve optimum S/N during setup, but otherwise the analog line output is indistinguishable from the digital connection (and I don't know how, but in some cases I *think* the analog connection may sound better)! :surprised:




That’s a great test you’ve done there. Thank you very much for sharing.
I’m still tempted to try the DX150 before I finally choose a DAP. I just need to find the time to drive nearly two hours to a shop that has demo Fiio and iBasso DAPs so I can actually try before I buy


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



mechatron said:


> And you’re exactly right about some of the guys on that Headfi forum. They whine about the littlest things yet they want the perfect DAP for peanuts. Just on your Fiio X5iii, with the long start up times is that when you first power it up after going flat or is the long startup time there every time the X5iii goes to sleep? And have you had an issues where the X5iii has glitched on the screen or crashed?
> 
> Thank you


I feel that if one looks at a DAP the same way as everything else in car audio - balancing many compromises - you will have a good experience. For some, 256gb and a handful of rotating hi-res albums is all they want. For others, two slots with 400gb cards full of a million MP3's makes them happy. Two different goals - not all DAPs can satisfy both people. 

And you are right about the Head-Fi thread.....many are screaming about the Viper not working, or the ability to get Spotify to work, etc......tying up engineering resources on this 'superfluous' stuff (from my perspective as a user) - when getting USB out to work, stability of the GUI, etc. And you are right as well.....they want a $3k DAP for $200......and are appalled when the manufacturer doesn't do it. 

If I were in charge of designing the FiiO X5iv......it would 'cool' to have 2 models.....the Android based...bells and whistles (WIFI stuff / bluetooth stuff....), and then another as a Pure Music player - the sound quality, the storage, folder structure and not library based, and fast - like an iPod.....nearly instant on....fast access to the folders - ease of going from one genre to another, shuffle anything you want......anyway....

Long start up time.....this is comparing to my experience only with the iPod and with the FiiO X5ii (not Android based).......if I hit the on button while in the house.....let it go through the boot up so it is ready to play when I get in the car....golden. If I hit the on button when I get in the car......by the time the Helix Director starts up....I'm ready to pull out and drive (6 speed manual) - real pain to get to my tracks when I'm trying to shift. If someone is using the DAP with CIEMs mostly in the house or while traveling....not a problem. And I power if all the way down after each use.....not sure if others just let it go to 'sleep' or not.......I guess stop it playing, and then let it sleep. If it is 'asleep' and the blue light is on the power button.....it is quick to get going again. 

My biggest issue has been the hard pause button on the side of the device.....going down the road playing music.....get a call on the phone (or a text...but won't talk about that).....if I decide to take the call.....I hit the pause button on the side of the FiiO.......many times (most times it seems), in Pure Music Mode......when I hit the pause button on the side of the device......it doesn't just unpause the music. It seems there is a disconnect between the hardware and the software......many times it will jump to some random track from either the internal memory or on the same or other card.......WOW! annoying to then have to drill through to get back to the song I was listening to. If I wake the screen up and use the screen pause button....I typically don't have that problem. Many times now....I just hit the button on the Director to mute the music.....instead of pausing the music. The HiByMusic app didn't seem to have that problem....the hard pause button worked as intended......but I didn't like the wait time to start the FiiO, then the start time to open HiBy app.....and I didn't prefer the interface.....So.....compromises......


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

HiFi players are cool, expensive at the same time, why not run a tablet, or ipad ? going straight in to dsp via usb card, Thats what I did, i use samsung galaxy s2 connected through usb straight in to dsp.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*Re: DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



bertholomey said:


> I feel that if one looks at a DAP the same way as everything else in car audio - balancing many compromises - you will have a good experience. For some, 256gb and a handful of rotating hi-res albums is all they want. For others, two slots with 400gb cards full of a million MP3's makes them happy. Two different goals - not all DAPs can satisfy both people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ah bugger, so the X5iii still has quite a few issues, but then again I think all DAPs have own issues too. Thanks for your honesty bud


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

quickaudi07 said:


> HiFi players are cool, expensive at the same time, why not run a tablet, or ipad ? going straight in to dsp via usb card, Thats what I did, i use samsung galaxy s2 connected through usb straight in to dsp.



I’m actually starting to sway this way. I actually have a 64GB iPad mini, but I’m wondering if I should get a Samsung Galaxy S2 as well? What size storage can you expand the memory to on the S2? And what’s the hi-res audio sampling rate limited to on the S2? Thank you


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

mechatron said:


> I’m actually starting to sway this way. I actually have a 64GB iPad mini, but I’m wondering if I should get a Samsung Galaxy S2 as well? What size storage can you expand the memory to on the S2? And what’s the hi-res audio sampling rate limited to on the S2? Thank you


Read my post #33 again for all that info on the Galaxy Tab S2 Tablet. I have the International GSM cell phone version, but the specs on the WiFi-only version are the same otherwise.

The tablet itself is just 32GB internal storage, but you can expand your storage with a microSD memory card (currently up to 400gb capacity).

If you use the _UAPP_ app, there are practically no limitations on the Hi-Res sample rate. Read the UAPP home page for details & features.

*USB Audio Player PRO*

With the iPad Mini you would also need to use a 3rd party app such as the iOS _Onkyo HF Player_ app in order to play Hi-Res files. You would also need Apple's Camera Connection Kit 3 to connect via USB/Lightning cable to your Helix HEC USB module.

*Onkyo HF Player app + HD Pack (in-app purchase) for Hi-Res Audio Playback on compatible iOS devices*


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks Billy! I never considered the Onkyo player on my iPhone.....just downloaded and upgraded - I like the interface a bit better than the Music app (that always has tagging issues). I’m looking forward to playing it in the car - putting a high res album or two on the phone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

bbfoto said:


> Read my post #33 again for all that info on the Galaxy Tab S2 Tablet. I have the International GSM cell phone version, but the specs on the WiFi-only version are the same otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you so much bbfoto. That’s fantastic information. I really appreciate it


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



bertholomey said:


> Thanks Billy! I never considered the Onkyo player on my iPhone.....just downloaded and upgraded - I like the interface a bit better than the Music app (that always has tagging issues). I’m looking forward to playing it in the car - putting a high res album or two on the phone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That Onkyo app is legit. The unfortunate thing is the roundabout way you cannot easily load or manage a library to and from PC to phone without dealing with iTunes which won’t import high-res into library. So you can’t just keep high-res stuff in iTunes to import it so Onkyo player will see it.. That I’m aware of. I could be wrong lemme know if so. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

*Re: DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



Babs said:


> That Onkyo app is legit. The unfortunate thing is the roundabout way you cannot easily load or manage a library to and from PC to phone without dealing with iTunes which won’t import high-res into library. So you can’t just keep high-res stuff in iTunes to import it so Onkyo player will see it.. That I’m aware of. I could be wrong lemme know if so.


Yeah, avoiding the whole iTunes syncing requirement is iust one reason I decided to go the Android route long ago. With Android devices you simply load all of your audio files onto the internal device storage or microSD card via Android's standard file/folder system and like most DAPs, no jumping through hoops to make Hi-Res work. 

But I had thought there was an update to the Onkyo HF Player's add-on HD app that made this process a lot simpler...not sure, though as I haven't used it in a while. :shrug:

IIRC, I think the process is outlined in the Link I provided to the Onkyo HF Player in one of my previous posts...

From that web page:

"Hi-Res Audio Playback (In-App Purchase) -

Now you can listen to Hi-Res Audio on your compatible iOS device. With support for 192 kHz/24-bit FLAC, WAV, DSD-IFF, AIFF, and DSF (along with all the popular compressed formats), Onkyo HF Player makes listening to Hi-Res Audio on your iPod touch, iPhone, and iPad easy. *Loading the files onto your device is a simple matter of dragging them into the Apps pane in iTunes when syncing your device with a PC or Mac.*"


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## geartech (Nov 23, 2017)

I found a way to finally get my Android tablet to work in my install, For some reason I could not get my HEC usb to work with me Helix DSP and I really like the bigger screen of a tablet over the FiiO X5 Mk3.

I ended up finding a USB to coax converter on Amazon, Topping D10. 
For the money it is a really nice unit and will decode pretty much anything you run thru it. 

Now it's not a perfect solution but it works, The HEC never did work for some reason. For $89.00 it seems like a decent option plus it got pretty good reviews.


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## rsjaurr (Apr 8, 2012)

bbfoto said:


> The tablet itself is just 32GB internal storage, but you can expand your storage with a microSD memory card (currently up to 400gb capacity).
> 
> 
> 
> With the iPad Mini you would also need to use a 3rd party app such as the iOS _Onkyo HF Player_ app in order to play Hi-Res files. You would also need Apple's Camera Connection Kit 3 to connect via USB/Lightning cable to your Helix HEC USB module.



How do you expand IPad mini's storage if music collection exceeds its storage capacity?


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## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

rsjaurr said:


> How do you expand IPad mini's storage if music collection exceeds its storage capacity?


You buy a iPad with more storage. I always get the max storage on both my iPhone and iPad currently 256 gig


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## rsjaurr (Apr 8, 2012)

Hammer1 said:


> You buy a iPad with more storage. I always get the max storage on both my iPhone and iPad currently 256 gig


Yeah thats what I asked if the collection exceeds max storage on source device?

Not many would like to buy two source players.


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## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Use a hard drive that has its own built in wifi. 

Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

To those of you using iPads/IPhones connecting straight into a DSP which app are you using?
Kaisertone
Onkyo HF
Vox
NePlayer
iAudiogate
Fiio music 
Neutron
Hibymusic


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I recently downloaded the Onkyo High Rea app on the iPhone, and I like the interface and it doesn’t have the stupid tagging issues like the Music app does. 

Bought the new Dave Matthews Band disc - loaded it in the Mac to XLS, no metadata (track 1, etc. ), I typed out everything and ripped it. Downconverted it to Apple Lossless and moved it on the phone from iTunes - the Music app split it in multiple albums - completely ridiculous. I was able to go back with Yate on some in the past and move them back to the phone, but this one refused to be fixed. Got the Onkyo app - no problems. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

bertholomey said:


> I recently downloaded the Onkyo High Rea app on the iPhone, and I like the interface and it doesn’t have the stupid tagging issues like the Music app does.
> 
> Bought the new Dave Matthews Band disc - loaded it in the Mac to XLS, no metadata (track 1, etc. ), I typed out everything and ripped it. Downconverted it to Apple Lossless and moved it on the phone from iTunes - the Music app split it in multiple albums - completely ridiculous. I was able to go back with Yate on some in the past and move them back to the phone, but this one refused to be fixed. Got the Onkyo app - no problems.
> 
> ...




Thanks Buddy. So it looks like the Onkyo App is a winner. And only $15AU to unlock the hi-res part


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



bertholomey said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Edit: sorry, the photos are working now


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

bertholomey said:


> I recently downloaded the Onkyo High Rea app on the iPhone, and I like the interface and it doesn’t have the stupid tagging issues like the Music app does.
> 
> Bought the new Dave Matthews Band disc - loaded it in the Mac to XLS, no metadata (track 1, etc. ), I typed out everything and ripped it. Downconverted it to Apple Lossless and moved it on the phone from iTunes - the Music app split it in multiple albums - completely ridiculous. I was able to go back with Yate on some in the past and move them back to the phone, but this one refused to be fixed. Got the Onkyo app - no problems.




Jason, that's great to hear regarding the Onkyo HF Player app. It's been awhile, but the last time I used it I didn't have any problems with metadata or tags either. It's pretty sad when a third party app works better than Apple's own Music app! 

Was there no online ID3 metadata yet for the new DM album so that your ripping program could access and load/import it to the tracks before ripping the disc? Most ripping software allows you to choose between the 3 main services that provide ID3 Metadata. If one service doesn't have it, sometimes one of the others will.

For those following along on the Android side, the _UAPP_ app has always handled metadata and ID3 tags perfectly IME as well.

And though I wouldn't really recommend it for playing hi-res music or as a "pure" music player, the Android _PowerAmp_ music player app would actually allow you to edit ID3 metadata tags from within the app, in addition to allowing you to delete files. It's really customizable, too, with hundreds of custom skins/themes and buttons/icons...things like a classic brushed aluminum cassette deck interface, etc. Just Don't Hit the EJECT button, haha. 

Oh, and slightly off topic, but NPR posted a new Tiny Desk Concert a few days ago with Dave Matthews playing solo acoustic guitar. I haven't watched it yet, but I'm sure it's halfway decent. 






.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Unfamiliar with that NPR thing Billy - is there a way to get a decent download of that set other than YouTube to MP3?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

bertholomey said:


> Unfamiliar with that NPR thing Billy - is there a way to get a decent download of that set other than YouTube to MP3?


Unfortunately, not that I know of. They don't create or offer lossless audio only downloads of these performances AFAIK.


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## Blue Chip (Dec 29, 2008)

Could such chinese android head unit be used as a source for usb audio input into helixhec usb?
https://www.seicane.com/pure-androi...s-3g-wifi-bluetooth-mirror-link-obd2-s127501a


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

Is there a better/audiophile version of this Apple USB3 Camera Adaptor (lightning to USB)? As I feel this adaptor isn’t ideal for audio


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## mattkim1337 (Jan 31, 2018)

mechatron said:


> Is there a better/audiophile version of this Apple USB3 Camera Adaptor (lightning to USB)? As I feel this adaptor isn’t ideal for audio


What makes you think so? I use that adapter into a Helix HEC and my stuff sounds as clean or cleaner than anything else I've tried. Certainly better than a headunit preout into the analog input of a Helix.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

mattkim1337 said:


> What makes you think so? I use that adapter into a Helix HEC and my stuff sounds as clean or cleaner than anything else I've tried. Certainly better than a headunit preout into the analog input of a Helix.



Sorry I really just assumed as it seems like it’s a device more dedicated to video. But that’s awesome news that you’ve had a great result with it, as I just bought one recently and I was having doubts until you replied. Thanks for your input bud. I really appreciate it.


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## mattkim1337 (Jan 31, 2018)

mechatron said:


> Sorry I really just assumed as it seems like it’s a device more dedicated to video. But that’s awesome news that you’ve had a great result with it, as I just bought one recently and I was having doubts until you replied. Thanks for your input bud. I really appreciate it.


Didn't mean to sound like I was accusing you of something. Just wanted to find out if you knew something that I didn't know. Anyways, the Camera connector will keep your signal path in the digital domain, so you don't have to do digital (original file) to analog (headunit RCA) to digital (DSP) then finally back to analog (amp/speakers). If you play high quality audio files then you skip the unnecessary DA/AD conversions and the DAC in your DSP will be the MVP.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

mattkim1337 said:


> Didn't mean to sound like I was accusing you of something. Just wanted to find out if you knew something that I didn't know. Anyways, the Camera connector will keep your signal path in the digital domain, so you don't have to do digital (original file) to analog (headunit RCA) to digital (DSP) then finally back to analog (amp/speakers). If you play high quality audio files then you skip the unnecessary DA/AD conversions and the DAC in your DSP will be the MVP.




Oh no, I wasn’t offended bud. Just grateful for your reply


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

Anyone on here using the Hiby R6 DAP? Apparently it’s meant to be nearly as responsive as a smartphone and sound great too


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

bertholomey said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ayyy bikini punk! 

Side note, you gotta send me that halo song

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

mechatron said:


> Anyone on here using the Hiby R6 DAP? Apparently it’s meant to be nearly as responsive as a smartphone and sound great too.


I've owned two. I got in on the initial Indiegogo campaign and got the Stainless Steel model. Really amazing and beautiful DAP for the money! However, they still had a few software bugs and issues I didn't like, but the main deal-breaker for me was both of my units had horrible, weak WiFi signal reception and dropped connection issues.

I purchased a second one with the Aluminum housing and its WiFi was a bit better, but still nowhere near good enough. Some people report not having any issues with the WiFi, but there have been HEAPS of complaints about it. I believe it is an actual Hardware issue.

One of my main interests for getting this DAP was wireless streaming of Tidal HiFi. In addition to the weak WiFi connection, even when I was right next to my WiFi router, the Tidal app would be buffering for 3-5 minutes before starting playback.  Obviously that was a No-Go for me. Tidal "Offline" worked flawlessly (downloaded tracks).

If you don't care about the WiFi, you might still take a look at it. The screen quality and GUI/responsiveness ARE excellent compared to nearly all other DAPs under $1500+, and the build quality is absolutely stunning.

If HiBy fixes the WiFi issues and updates/changes the firmware and HiBy app to include user's requests, I will definitely buy this DAP again. But as it is (the last that I checked) it's not ready for primetime in my use case scenario.

.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

bbfoto said:


> I've owned two. I got in on the initial Indiegogo campaign and got the Stainless Steel model. Really amazing and beautiful DAP for the money! However, they still had a few software bugs and issues I didn't like, but the main deal-breaker for me was both of my units had horrible, weak WiFi signal reception and dropped connection issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That’s great information thanks bbfoto. That’s a real bummer for you with the wife. Although for me the responsiveness and sound quality of the R6 really appeal to me. Most of the time the R6 will be connected straight into my Helix DSP in the car or connected to my headphones.
Actually, another question bbfoto, do you think I’ll have an issue powering my Sennheiser Momentum over the ear headphones that have an impedance of 18 ohms? Would there be a lack of dynamics or “brighter” sound due to the supposedly 10 ohm output of the R6 vs the 18 ohm impedance of my Momentum’s?


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

mechatron said:


> That’s great information thanks bbfoto. That’s a real bummer for you with the wife [WiFi]. Although for me the responsiveness and sound quality of the R6 really appeal to me. Most of the time the R6 will be connected straight into my Helix DSP in the car or connected to my headphones.
> 
> Actually, another question bbfoto, do you think I’ll have an issue powering my Sennheiser Momentum over the ear headphones that have an impedance of 18 ohms? Would there be a lack of dynamics or “brighter” sound due to the supposedly 10 ohm output of the R6 vs the 18 ohm impedance of my Momentum’s?


The SQ of the R6 is excellent especially at its price point, but I do think that my DX200 is a bit better. But it's more expensive and has interchangeable amp modules, so there's that.

But the R6 should have no trouble driving your Momentums. They have "dynamic" drivers. The "high" output impedance of the R6 is really only a problem with IEMs that are hybrids (dynamic + BA drivers) or multiple BA type (Balanced Armature driver).

I would try to purchase it via a local shop with a good return policy or via Amazon from "Amazon Prime" or a "Fullfilled by Amazon" seller. Crikey, I can't remember if you guys have Amazon Prime yet in Oz?


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

I have to ask...

If I were to use a IPhone X directly into either the Sony or the Helix USB - would a DAP sound better? 

I mean I am not talking about DSD etc.... does a higher quality DAP make a difference digitally? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

bbfoto said:


> The SQ of the R6 is excellent especially at its price point, but I do think that my DX200 is a bit better. But it's more expensive and has interchangeable amp modules, so there's that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks again for your input bud. I really appreciate it . And that’s good to know that my Momentums will be a breeze to drive. Thank you.

Also I have finally found a brick and mortar shop in Sydney that will stock these R6s early August. So I’ll be to demo one before I buy. He also has the Fiio X5iii & X7ii in store, and the Cayin N5iiS coming shortly too


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Elektra said:


> I have to ask...
> 
> If I were to use a IPhone X directly into either the Sony or the Helix USB - would a DAP sound better?
> 
> I mean I am not talking about DSD etc.... does a higher quality DAP make a difference digitally?


In general, there should be no difference except for the possibility of a variance in jitter performance over the connections depending on how the connections are implemented between each source device. AFAIK the Xmos USB chips are the current standard (best).

That's the only thing that I can think of that *might* make a difference. But the Helix USB HEC and the Sony GS9 are both well designed in regards to jitter reduction and jitter performance, so?

There are so many facets and variables in the "Digital" realm that you really cannot absolutely say that 1's & 0's on one end of the chain are 1's & 0's on the other end of the chain. PCM audio is transmitted via organized, synchronized data "packets" or "chunks" of data at a time. There's potential for many things to happen along the way. And it's audibly obvious to most people that a Burr-Brown DAC sounds different to an ESS Sabre DAC even though the 1's & 0's are identical on each end.


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## bmmer701 (Jun 16, 2010)

Just a question im using my fiio x7 mk2 via optical and coax (hec doesnt want to play only via iphone & samsung phone). I tried playing a dsd file in my dap and theres no sound coming out butother files are ok. If im using onkyo app via iphone same dsd file it can play via hec


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> Good thread - good discussion - there was an earlier thread with much of the same info, but can’t link it here in Tapatalk.
> 
> I have the following sources:
> Pioneer P99 - RCA out into Helix Pro2
> ...


To Billy and others 

The above was pertinent to my old car set up. New car set up is as follows: 

1) Stock HU through MOST BUS to MObridge DA-3 into Helix
2) FiiO through Coax into Helix
3) iPhone X through USB into Helix 



Now - for #1 above - it appears that the MObridge DA-3 provides Toslink output and RCA output. If that is the case......I would have an option: 

A) Toslink into Helix Toslink input - would this be limited for higher resolution music? 
B) RCA into Helix input - would this be better for higher resolution music - PCM 

If I were to go with the Toslink output of DA-3 into the Helix - would I still be able to connect the FiiO via coax - and simply switch between them in the Director? I asked another user that question, and he said that I'd have to purchase the optional Toslink Input Module for the Helix......I would imagine that would be in the same slot as the USB HEC card.....so, no phone through USB. 

For #2 above - I had the coax and USB cables run in the BRZ going into the Helix - with the thought that if the FiiO ever had USB output working, I would use that instead of the coax......only one cable, no switching in the Director......well, I don't know if the FiiO X5iii currently has USB output.....the 1.2.1 Firmware was supposed to do that.....I didn't get it to work in the car when I tried it once.....didn't know if it was a setting within the FiiO or a setting within the Helix software. 

I was trying to test it on the Auralic Vega DAC in the home system.....frustration! The USB out of the FiiO (micro B, 5 pin) ends in Type A male......the input into the Vega is a USB Type B......so I need a Female A to Female A to bridge the gap......I have a Male A to Male A and the cable for the car is a Female A to Mini-B, 5 pin.....UGH!!!!!

So I can't at this moment verify whether the FiiO is able to do USB output (car system is uninstalled). 

I'm being told that the Audi comes with an MMI cable to connect the phone (lightening connection?) - so that might actually solve connecting the iPhone to the system to play music (would go through the headunit, through the MObridge, through the Helix).........

A bit of this is premature......I need to get the car, I need to see what the MObridge actually looks like, etc.....but if folks have experience with all of this - would be great to start brainstorming. 

Also......I did the kernal update on the FiiO.....but if that HiBi R6 is better in a lot of ways (only reason I'd use WiFi is for updates).....that might be an option. 

What I can't figure out.....when it has one micro SD card slot......how can it say that the storage is up-gradable to 2 TB of storage? How does that work? There are no 2 TB micro SD cards......can you have a USB powered 2TB hard drive connected to a DAP (strapped together) where the music is on the external hard drive, but you are accessing it on the DAP? 

HiBi R6 page


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

bertholomey said:


> To Billy and others
> 
> The above was pertinent to my old car set up. New car set up is as follows:
> 
> ...


Hey Jason,

Congrats again on the new (to you) car. 

I don't have a ton of time at the moment, so I'll try to get back to you with more answers when I have a moment to digest everything.

For the moment, I would probably steer clear of the HiBy R6, even if the WiFi issues are not that big of a deal for you. If you have a local dealer that carries it and would give you a trial period to check it out, then you might do that. So much of this stuff is personal preference with these things.

In addition, HiBy recently announced the *R6 PRO*, yet a lot of the software features that were promised AND hardware issues (namely WiFi) have still not been ironed out with the original R6, so that makes me hesitant to even consider getting on board with this new model. I'm not even sure at this point if the USB output for the R6 is actually functional at this point either...it's been too long and there are so many DAPs and specs to follow that it's difficult to keep all of the details sorted.

Oh, and Joseph Yeung ("Joe Bloggs") who was a very experienced guy and the best liaison between the Chinese manufacturer and the HiBy DAP community has somewhat unexpectedly left HiBy. So as far as I can tell, there is no longer anyone in the HiBy service or technical support department that is completely fluent in English to communicate with. Frustrating! Joe was "that guy" and was very personable. (He was also formerly at FiiO before his stint at HiBy).

Regarding the HiBy R6's claim that the single microSD storage is "up-gradable" to 2TB of storage, that is just a theoretical limit for when larger capacity micro SD cards come onto the market. Obviously there are only 400GB (and just now) 512GB microSD cards available.

However, using a simple male micro-USB to female USB-A "OTG" cable, you can connect a large USB Thumbdrive, HDD, or SSD and play the files from it on the DAP. With an old school spinning platter type HDD, if it works or not usually depends on how much power the HDD requires in order to operate via USB. And any of these drain the power of the DAP's battery really fast. But this has been a standard feature on nearly every Android smartphone or tablet from the beginning.

Regarding the Toslink vs. RCA analog connection with the MObridge, yes, Toslink will be limited to 24/192 max. *Some* Toslink S/PDIF devices will only do up to 24/96 via Toslink, while the Coaxial S/PDIF connection might be capable of up to 24/192. And *some* will do DSD64, but very few, and obviously not with the Helix via USB HEC input.

I'm not sure what the RCA preamp Output Voltage is from the MoBridge DA3 and/or what limitations it might have in regards to bit depth & sample rate and/or DSD (doubt it) via its Toslink S/PDIF connection. It might be good to query John Kiser regarding this or check the specs via the manual.

"If I were to go with the Toslink output of DA-3 into the Helix - would I still be able to connect the FiiO via coax - and simply switch between them in the Director? I asked another user that question, and he said that I'd have to purchase the optional Toslink Input Module for the Helix......I would imagine that would be in the same slot as the USB HEC card.....so, no phone through USB."

Regarding the above. That is correct. Without the extra Helix HEC S/PDIF Toslink Input card, you can only use EITHER the Toslink input OR the Coaxial input on the Helix. I don't believe that there is any way to *quickly* switch between the two using the Director remote. In the PC Tool software, you can only set up one of those built-in inputs to be active at any given time...unless there has been an update that I'm not keen to. And if you added the HEC Toslink input module you'd have to remove the HEC USB card. 

I'm trying to hold out for the DSP PRO MKIII to see if it addresses any of this, and/or waiting for the new 16 channel Zapco DSPs as well to see what is possible with those.

Regarding the Vega/FiiO DAP and the all of the different USB connections...I agree, that is extremely frustrating! I've learned from being out in the boonies on (digital) photo assignments to buy and carry just about every imaginable cable & adapter that is available, just in case! It's certainly a PITA to carry around all that extra stuff, and also a substantial investment, though I can write it off as a business expense. But at least I know that I'm covered in regards to being able to solve any connection issues. 

There should be a setting in the FiiO X5iii's menu to switch the micro-USB port to "output" or "transport" mode (in addition to "DAC" mode).

Wrapping up for now, I would probably opt to go with all analog connections, unless you experience a sub par noise floor and/or have problems with radiated EMI/RFI noise in the new vehicle.

EDIT: If you can get your FiiO X5iii to output & connect via USB, I would probably go that route into the helix, as in that case the FiiO would be acting purely as a transport. 

And of course if you kept the HEC USB card installed, you would still be able to use your iPhone X into the Helix via USB & CCK3. Though if the Audi MMI cable does actually interface with your iPhone X, that would be a great alternative or at least an option.

The USB connection can sometimes be a bit finicky with longer cable lengths and/or poor quality cables. But a powered USB repeater extension cable usually does the trick when necessary.

That being said, I REALLY like the Digital Coaxial connection from my iBasso DX200 or DX90 into the Helix DSP Pro mk2. And in this mode, the DAP is operating purely as a transport as well. The cables can get a little bit cumbersome, but this allows me to charge either DAP via the micro-USB port while playing music in the car. 

And the analog Line Output from either DAP feeding the Helix DSP via analog RCA inputs is excellent to my ears as well, similar to how most people prefer to use the analog RCA preouts from the Sony GS9 into their DSP.

I'll try to come back soon and revisit your questions in more detail.


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

mechatron said:


> Thanks again for your input bud. I really appreciate it . And that’s good to know that my Momentums will be a breeze to drive. Thank you.
> 
> Also I have finally found a brick and mortar shop in Sydney that will stock these R6s early August. So I’ll be to demo one before I buy. He also has the Fiio X5iii & X7ii in store, and the Cayin N5iiS coming shortly too



No worries. I've kind of had my eye on that Cayin N5iiS as well. Did you end up demo'ing the R6 or any of the others?

I'm still loving the AKG N5005 universal IEMs paired with my iBasso DX200 or DX90. The AKG's only downfall is that they are really finicky regarding Ear Tips that provide the perfect combination of a good seal, good fit & comfort, and the proper FR. But when you find the right ear tips, OMG these uIEMs are simply stunning and reference level IMO.

And the Bluetooth adapter that comes with the AKG's sounds absolutely phenomenal! One of the members on Head-Fi couldn't believe what he was hearing, so he did some independent objective tests and measurements with the Bluetooth adapter and simply could not believe how good it's measurements and performance are. It basically is a balanced dual mono bluetooth receiver and amplifier design.  And the N5005's can be a bit harder to drive compared to other IEMs when using the hard wired SE cables, so the BT adapter circumvents this issue.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

bbfoto said:


> Hey Jason,
> 
> Congrats again on the new (to you) car.
> 
> ...


And yesterday - speaking to Ian - he reminded me that the Audi MMI 'system' can do bluetooth from the phone through the head unit, and later I thought - the FiiO can output through bluetooth as well. So theoretically, the 'simplest' solution would be to use bluetooth on the phone and FiiO to output through the head unit, through the DA-3, through the Helix - once connection to the Helix (either Toslink or RCA). 

The more expensive and 'elegant' solution would be.......wait for it.......a Home DAC for the car. 

Mytek Brooklyn DAC 

A buddy was testing this out to potentially add to his car......DA-3, FiiO, phone all go into this, and then this feeds the Helix.....switch between sources right here....one connection to the Helix. Expense.....Installation in the car....etc. 

Anyway, I'll update as I research / think through the problem. I appreciate your help as always Billy!!!


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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

When using the Director with a DSP Pro you choose which digital input you want to use, with the DSP Pro MK2 you can choose any of them directly. In my system I have HEC USB for my iPhone and my Sony Walkman, NavTV Zen for main audio in through Toslink, and Coaxial digital for my Fiio player.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

dobslob said:


> When using the Director with a DSP Pro you choose which digital input you want to use, with the DSP Pro MK2 you can choose any of them directly. In my system I have HEC USB for my iPhone and my Sony Walkman, NavTV Zen for main audio in through Toslink, and Coaxial digital for my Fiio player.




Thanks dobslob! I’m anxious to get the install done so I can test this out. Would be best if the FiiO would do USB well.....then one cable to the Helix Pro for phone/Helix. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

My Fiio does do USB, and it does it well, I just like having multiple sources available. In my case it is more about showing the flexibility than anything else. USB is my preferred method as it allows me to use the clocking of the Helix as opposed to that of the portable device. Far more important on a standard iPhone or Android device than on a HD media player specifically designed for the task.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

dobslob said:


> My Fiio does do USB, and it does it well, I just like having multiple sources available. In my case it is more about showing the flexibility than anything else. USB is my preferred method as it allows me to use the clocking of the Helix as opposed to that of the portable device. Far more important on a standard iPhone or Android device than on a HD media player specifically designed for the task.


True. Coaxial or Toslink from a smartphone or tablet via an adapter/converter into the Helix can be prone to jitter, and this is still very possible using a DAP as well.

And thanks for the clarification between the DSP PRO & PRO MK2 with the Director regarding the use of and switching between the built-in Coaxial and Toslink inputs. I've gotten rid of the Director in my systems that use the Helix DSPs.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

As a side note, here's a bit of information regarding the features & specs (via LINKS) on the software/firmware UPDATES supposedly coming to the original HiBy R6, and the specs for the upcoming HiBy R6 PRO. The new R6 PRO will still only have ONE microSD card slot.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hiby-r6-dap-dual-dac-balanced-out-great-reviews-and-over-500-funded-indiegogo.852042/page-285#post-14461702

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hiby-r6-dap-dual-dac-balanced-out-great-reviews-and-over-500-funded-indiegogo.852042/page-285#post-14461717


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



bbfoto said:


> No worries. I've kind of had my eye on that Cayin N5iiS as well. Did you end up demo'ing the R6 or any of the others?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah I’ve been a bit slack (lol) and I’ve been meaning to go and demo the R6. I was keen on hearing more about the R6 PRO until you confirmed it will still only have one micro SD card slot  . The DX150 also has my attention too, however I’m not sure if ibasso has fixed all the weird delays with the latest firmware updates. And man those AKG IEMs must sound like heaven to you. Well done


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

*24 Hour FLASH SALE on MicroSD & ALL Memory/Storage Products @ ADORAMA!*

Just wanted to post this here for those of you with DAPs or Android Smartphone & Tablets that use MicroSD memory cards...or for Head Units with front or rear USB ports (for USB Thumbdrives and HDD/SSD). There are some great deals on 128GB, 200GB, 256GB, and 400GB MicroSD cards and ALL other types of storage. And Lexar has released their 512GB MicroSD card (PNY has one as well).

I think the best deals are the for the Sandisk Ultra 256GB MicroSD for $63 & the Sandisk Ultra 400GB for $115. Here's a Link...

https://www.adorama.com/l/Computers/Memory-and-Data-Storage/Memory-Cards-and-USB-Drives/Memory-Cards?sel=Card-Type_microSDXC_microSD_microSDHC|Capacity_512GB_400GB_256GB_200GB

Even with these deals it would still be a good idea to check prices elsewhere for a better deal before you click the BUY button...you never know.

CHECK AMAZON!


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

Has anyone on here used the Hiby R3 with the USB-c to coax adaptor into the Helix DSP and had some success? This is obviously digital out however I’m just a little worried that it may not work or have reliability issues due to USB-c OTG being a fairly new protocol


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

mechatron said:


> Has anyone on here used the Hiby R3 with the USB-c to coax adaptor into the Helix DSP and had some success? This is obviously digital out however I’m just a little worried that it may not work or have reliability issues due to USB-c OTG being a fairly new protocol.


Congrats on the R3. 

Unfortunately, I don't have any hands-on experience with it. 

However, OTG via USB Type-C has been around for several years now and is fairly ubiquitous at this point on Android devices. My older Galaxy Note FE (repurposed Note 7) works perfectly in this regard, at least when using the Android _USB Audio Player Pro_ app.

However, unlike the HiBy R6, the R3 does not use Android OS, so it's hard to say for sure. But as long as it puts out a standard S/PDIF coaxial signal, it should have no issues connecting to the Helix via its digital coaxial input.

You might not be able to charge the R3 when using a USB Type-C OTG "Y" charging/data cable. You'd have to experiment with this.

It's a PITA to track down specific information, but you *might* find your answer to this in the R3 thread on the Head-Fi forums.

Good luck.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

bbfoto said:


> Congrats on the R3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the reply buddy. Sorry I haven’t purchased the R3 as yet but very close to buying one in mint condition. The more I think about it (and after reading your reply) I’m starting to think that there shouldn’t be any issues with using this R3 as a source into my Helix DSP via the adaptor especially since Hiby actually sell the USB-c to coaxial adaptor

https://store.hiby.com/products/hiby-type-c-to-3-5mm-gold-plating-coaxial-cable


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*

Hmmm there may be a bit of a dilemma..since the Hiby adaptor is only 100mm long I’ll need a 3.5mm female to single RCA extension cable (75 ohm) to connect between the Hiby adaptor and the Helix DSP and I don’t think this extension cable actually exists... maybe it needs to be custom made???


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

*Re: DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



mechatron said:


> Hmmm there may be a bit of a dilemma..since the Hiby adaptor is only 100mm long I’ll need a 3.5mm female to single RCA extension cable (75 ohm) to connect between the Hiby adaptor and the Helix DSP and I don’t think this extension cable actually exists... maybe it needs to be custom made???


You can buy 75 ohm shielded coaxial cable and the connectors to make your own custom length. Or see how much it would be for a custom cable from _Blue Jeans Cable_ shipped to Oz.

It will most likely work with a standard RCA cable with an adapter, though. Just keep it as short as possible.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

mechatron said:


> Thanks for the reply buddy. Sorry I haven’t purchased the R3 as yet but very close to buying one in mint condition. The more I think about it (and after reading your reply) I’m starting to think that there shouldn’t be any issues with using this R3 as a source into my Helix DSP via the adaptor especially since Hiby actually sell the USB-c to coaxial adaptor.


It should be fine. 

Side Note:

DEMO: Control your HiBy R3 playback from your Android Smartphone or iPhone using HiBy Link app (via Bluetooth)...


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



bbfoto said:


> It should be fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you very much for the great info bud. I actually just bought a Fiio X5iii, as it was just too good a deal to ignore. It’s also has the two micro SD card slots and a dedicated digital coaxial out which is a big plus for me


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

That is so funny, I just posted this on my build thread - timing.....



bertholomey said:


> So, a couple things....
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



bertholomey said:


> That is so funny, I just posted this on my build thread - timing.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Lol, what a coincidence. You didn’t like the X5III or you’re just upgrading?
Also with the X5iii I’ve only just taken out of the box and haven’t had a chance to play with it yet. However what format is best for the micro SD card? FAT32,EXFAT or NTFS? And am I best formatting the card inside the DAP or through the PC?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



mechatron said:


> Lol, what a coincidence. You didn’t like the X5III or you’re just upgrading?
> Also with the X5iii I’ve only just taken out of the box and haven’t had a chance to play with it yet. However what format is best for the micro SD card? FAT32,EXFAT or NTFS? And am I best formatting the card inside the DAP or through the PC?




Just making a change - a little different sound signature. Format the micro SD card within the player I believe. Some have said something other that FAT32 can trip up some DAPs. I believe I formatted within and I can move music on with my Mac, but I’ll have to verify that claim (the format) later today. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*Re: DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



bertholomey said:


> Just making a change - a little different sound signature. Format the micro SD card within the player I believe. Some have said something other that FAT32 can trip up some DAPs. I believe I formatted within and I can move music on with my Mac, but I’ll have to verify that claim (the format) later today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Ah Sweet, what DAPs are on your shortlist?
And thank you very much for that information bud. I’ve done a big of reading and I’m getting mixed answers (re: what format) however FAT32 seems to be the most solid format for the X5iii


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I’ll answer in a bit - got a men’s small group meeting at 0615 - a bit of a drive 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



mechatron said:


> Ah Sweet, what DAPs are on your shortlist?
> And thank you very much for that information bud. I’ve done a big of reading and I’m getting mixed answers (re: what format) however FAT32 seems to be the most solid format for the X5iii


I was looking at several - the iBasso based on Billy's recommendation, the Onkyo, Sony, Pioneer, Shanling M3s, the Opus#2, Opus#3, Cayin M5iis......The more I read the features, the more confusing it got - I want a specific thing....many times, I was left with the position that the X5iii met or exceeded what many of these players offered - and cheaper. So I think you will be happy with your purchase for sure! 

I'm very intrigued by a couple offerings from Astell & Kern....and no.....not the $3k ones  As I was looking this past Tuesday, in a hotel room (my intention was to start a spreadsheet with all of the features, and then a listing of all the players I was looking at).......all of a sudden....like an epiphany.....A&K stood out. I got the chance to listen to the KANN, but it doesn't check a couple boxes for me......so we will see.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

*DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 &amp; USB AUDIO Card*



bertholomey said:


> I was looking at several - the iBasso based on Billy's recommendation, the Onkyo, Sony, Pioneer, Shanling M3s, the Opus#2, Opus#3, Cayin M5iis......The more I read the features, the more confusing it got - I want a specific thing....many times, I was left with the position that the X5iii met or exceeded what many of these players offered - and cheaper. So I think you will be happy with your purchase for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very intrigued by a couple offerings from Astell & Kern....and no.....not the $3k ones  As I was looking this past Tuesday, in a hotel room (my intention was to start a spreadsheet with all of the features, and then a listing of all the players I was looking at).......all of a sudden....like an epiphany.....A&K stood out. I got the chance to listen to the KANN, but it doesn't check a couple boxes for me......so we will see.



Sounds like most of the DAPs I was looking at for a while. I was actually really close to getting a Hiby R6 (close to $1000AUD) however I really didn’t know how much I’d actually use a DAP.... So then I thought, how about I get a much cheaper DAP and if I start to use it quite a lot I’ll sell it and go for one a lot better & more expensive. Then just two days ago a brand new X5iii was being auctioned on eBay and I ended up winning it for $355AUD delivered...score. 

As for the A&K DAPs I’ve always had them in the back of my mind & been tempted, however do any of their models have digital coax out? As this is absolutely critical for me as my DAP will mainly be used in the car


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I think you did the exact right thing - either you may find it not to your taste or you might find that the DAP was the thing that has been missing in your life. 

I don’t believe they have coax out - which brings up a great point when trying to figure out which model to purchase - what is the intended use? For some - working in a cube farm with no interruptions in an 8 hour day - they want a big, incredible SQ DAP (like the top A&Ks top Sony) - where portability is not a concern - and it has to drive full size headphones. 

Others - portability was the largest concern. Commuting on the subway for instance. And connectivity - some has to have Tidal, others couldn’t care less because they will never sub for it. 

I connected the X5iii via coax in the car to the Helix and switched sources with the Director - amazing option! In the new car, the input used for main will be optical, so I’m going to switch to USB input for the DAP and the iPhone. 

I learned something yesterday when talking to Drew at Moon Audio......when I tried to connect the FiiO via USB in the past - it was a fail because I wasn’t using an OTG cable. Now I can’t experiment in the car because I don’t have the system in yet - but I’m hoping to try it with my Vega DAC in the Home system. I watched this video after Drew mention the cable and it made some sense. 

https://youtu.be/YxFemTqSA4I




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

Thanks mate, yes I think I did the right thing too for this point in time. As you’ve pointed out I might even find that the DAP was the perfect thing I was actually missing in life (in the car audio world).

As for yourself, I reckon you have a great plan in place. Do your spreadsheet with a list of features, pros & cons for each of the DAPs you’re now considering and then hopefully the one you need/want will stand out.

And oh wow, thank you very much for the heads up with the OTG cable info & the HEC HD AUDIO USB card...as this still gives me options on connection to the Helix DSP


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

So anyone out there that may have an interest in amazing 64 Audio, A6 CIEMs with the adjustable Adel module (paid $200 for the modules) - Koa wood faceplates - please let me know. You would just need to get impressions made at an Audiologist to send to 64Audio, and they make new bodies that will fit perfectly in your ears. Incredible sound and blocks out most outside noise. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I got the new OTG USB cable yesterday and hooked up the FiiO X5iii (which I would like to sell  ) to my Vega DAC in the home system, and it worked perfectly! So I may only be running a USB cable through the car instead of both cables (coax and USB).


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

bertholomey said:


> I got the new OTG USB cable yesterday and hooked up the FiiO X5iii (which I would like to sell  ) to my Vega DAC in the home system, and it worked perfectly! So I may only be running a USB cable through the car instead of both cables (coax and USB).




Great find bud, thanks for sharing


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## cycleguy (Feb 10, 2018)

bertholomey said:


> I got the new OTG USB cable yesterday and hooked up the FiiO X5iii (which I would like to sell  ) to my Vega DAC in the home system, and it worked perfectly! So I may only be running a USB cable through the car instead of both cables (coax and USB).


What are you looking for $ for the DAP ?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

cycleguy said:


> What are you looking for $ for the DAP ?




Well......I got the $ that I wanted for it, and I bought its replacement recently. I didn’t post the unboxing on here, but I will. I might have a friend who may sell his FiiO X5iii soon. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I posted this on my build thread and my headphone station thread, but I thought I would share here as well. 



I was able to sell the FiiO to a good guy in Cali (very cool - he is very active in the car scene with the Papasins, et. al.), so I picked up a new DAP. 



I'm really enjoying it - exactly what I was hoping for in a DAP! 



A&K SR15 'Norma' - funny, their 'entry level' - if this is entry level, I would imagine their top stuff is pretty special......but I'm not that customer. What I like about this DAP: 



- Size - smaller than many of the others - very portable - size of screen is just fine to me.



- UI - excellent firmware - company has been around for 10+ years - stripped down Android versus the full Android (that I didn't like on the FiiO). 



- Sound Quality - I feel it is a large step up versus the FiiO......with an investment, there is an expected sound quality increase, and this DAP did not disappoint. 



- Connectivity - the WiFi works great, the Bluetooth works great, the USB output works great.



So, I'm using this primarily when I travel - airport, airplane, hotel, etc. I will be using it for a source at headphone meets - outputting through USB into DACs. And I'll be using it in the car - primarily for demos, comps - connected through USB to the DSP. I'm waiting for the Samsung 512 GB micro SD cards to become more plentiful - then I'll have the same storage capacity that I had with the FiiO. 



*Now - before I get a bunch of comments about the skewed screen - design feature that A&K played with on this DAP - hold in your left hand, the screen is square to you - you either think it is a pretty cool aesthetic, or it drives you crazy....if you are a customer of A&K DAPs....then you can make that decision.....if you are looking at the purchase of another individual....there really is no need to comment on how you think it looks stupid......but if you feel the need to get it off your chest.....can't go through the rest of the day without providing your criticism, then fire away *





































































This shot shows a track being played via WiFi from my Synology NAS....pretty cool feature to have all that music available. 














Playing mostly through these 64Audio A6t Custom In Ear Monitors.

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## cycleguy (Feb 10, 2018)

bertholomey said:


> Well......I got the $ that I wanted for it, and I bought its replacement recently. I didn’t post the unboxing on here, but I will. I might have a friend who may sell his FiiO X5iii soon.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Shoot me a Pm when you know it will be available please


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## kennethteng (Sep 4, 2018)

Just to share my findings regarding which DAP works with Helix DSP Pro MkII and USB Card.
1) Fiio X5 Mk III - Works with OTG Cable and Director.
2) thebit Opus#1S - Works with OTG Cable and Director.

Director is needed for volume control cos without it the DAP USB out will not work as there will be no sound.

I will be using thebit Opus#1S as the DAP for my setup as it has a has a better UI experience as compared to Fiio. If you don't need WIFI or Bluetooth then Opus is a better choice.

Both have 4" display. Both have 2x micro SD Card slot so basically you can have your music collection in FLAC on the go. Both run on andriod but Fiio will need to switch to music mode to get the best out of it whereas Opus is already customized to only play music and nothing else.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

What size cards are you using in the Opus? 

I’m still waiting for the Samsung 512GB to be available. 


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## kennethteng (Sep 4, 2018)

bertholomey said:


> What size cards are you using in the Opus?
> 
> I’m still waiting for the Samsung 512GB to be available.
> 
> ...


I'm using 2x 200GB (183GB effective) cards from Sandisk.

I feel that a dedicated DAP is a better option than a Samsung phone cos a DAP is tweaked for audio application whereas a Samsung, which I presume is a phone, is design to work best as a phone, a camera, etc, but never audio as a priority.
Also a DAP is much cheaper. It cost me less than $600 with original leather case and 2x 200GB SD cards.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

kennethteng said:


> I'm using 2x 200GB (183GB effective) cards from Sandisk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree completely  I wasn’t clear - I am waiting for the new Samsung 512GB micro SD card. I recently sold my FiiO X5iii and bought an A&K SR15 ‘Norma’. The two 256GB micro SD cards that I was using in the FiiO are going to be used in my car (two SD card slots that play through the factory system), and get one big card for the A&K. 


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## kennethteng (Sep 4, 2018)

bertholomey said:


> I agree completely  I wasn’t clear - I am waiting for the new Samsung 512GB micro SD card. I recently sold my FiiO X5iii and bought an A&K SR15 ‘Norma’. The two 256GB micro SD cards that I was using in the FiiO are going to be used in my car (two SD card slots that play through the factory system), and get one big card for the A&K.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I personally don't think 512GB worth it at the moment as it cost more than $300. I will go for 400GB, which is currently going for less than $100.


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## AlvinDj (Nov 13, 2015)

May I know for DAP LINEOUT 3.5mm to Digital Coaxial, which is the best cable / connector plug setup to choose if I were to custom it?

What is the exact term for this cable btw?


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## rsjaurr (Apr 8, 2012)

kennethteng said:


> Just to share my findings regarding which DAP works with Helix DSP Pro MkII and USB Card.
> 1) Fiio X5 Mk III - Works with OTG Cable and Director.
> 2) thebit Opus#1S - Works with OTG Cable and Director.
> 
> Director is needed for volume control cos without it the DAP USB out will not work as there will be no sound.


I should also work with their URC.3 remote as well with appropriate settings on their software.


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## Grogger (Jul 13, 2020)

It's been a while since posts on this thread, but I'm really interested in more info on DAPs working with car DSPs. If anyone has info on what works for digital audio sources, Daps going to auto DSPs that would be awesome! I'm using an Audison Bit One (or will be once I get it installed) and want to get a good DAP to run it. 

More posts here:









DAP for Audison DSP


Hi, complete newbie, be gentle ! I'm having a Audison DSP fitted to my car and it has a optical input I require a DAP or something similar that has optical out connectivity. I'll be using it with Tidal so need to be able download content for offline use. Can anyone help, appreciate your advice




www.diymobileaudio.com


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## Frequentflyer (Mar 3, 2020)

Grogger said:


> It's been a while since posts on this thread, but I'm really interested in more info on DAPs working with car DSPs. If anyone has info on what works for digital audio sources, Daps going to auto DSPs that would be awesome! I'm using an Audison Bit One (or will be once I get it installed) and want to get a good DAP to run it.
> 
> More posts here:
> 
> ...


I am using a Fiio X7 Mkii with my Helix P Six and using Tidal HiFi for my music. I have the HEC Bluetooth card in the amp also and can either output audio from the DAP (or a cell phone) via BT or the X7 has an optical output (mini-Toslink), which is actually my primary choice of input the amp. The X7 is older Fiio technology, but you can get them brand new from AliExpress for 48% off (and free shipping right from China) right now. It holds two sdcards, but I've just got one 256GB card in mine, which is more than enough storage (like 6,000 sounds?). Their flagship DAP now is the M11/M11 Pro. 

In hindsight, I probably should have gone with an M11 with a HEC USB card instead of BT, but I can always make those modifications later. Most new DAP's allow audio out from the USB port. The M11's have new Android software and are supposedly less "buggy". I find the X7 gets a little laggy sometimes and I occasionally have to reboot it.

The top DAP's you'll want to take a look at are made by iBasso, HiBy, and Fiio. If you want optical, I believe iBasso still makes a few models with optical, but otherwise, most of the them are capable of USB output. You will not beat the sound quality from a DAP.


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## asnatlas (Apr 4, 2021)

Anyone else have details ?


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