# The most important aspect of an audio setup



## Wooferine (Oct 21, 2016)

"The make-or-break part is the front speakers. If you have a fixed budget, the front speakers are where you should not cut any corners."

"The most important aspect of any installation is the tuning, time alignment and equalization. Without good tuning, alignment etc, the best most expensive equipment can be made to sound horrible."

"The absolute key to a good installation is the installation. No matter how good the equipment is, a bad installation will make it worthless. Bad speaker location, bad connections, bad grounds, poor quality wires, bad voltage regulation, all these will cause more harm than the good that comes from investing in high quality components."

"The single most effective thing you can do to improve your listening experience is to bypass the poor digital/analog converters that rob you of so much sound quality before the sound even reaches the speakers."

.......................

These are not exact quotes but a decent representation of the variety of advices from seasoned professionals, audiophiles, experts, or people perceived as such because let's face it they do know a million times more than both Average Me and my friend Average Joe combined.

So of course one weak link in the strongest chain will cause it to fail, but we can't all become end-to-end audiophile electrical and electronic experts just so our cars don't sound crap. After a decent amount of reading I could conclude that there is no point in starting because I will need to learn the finer points of speaker construction, advanced electrical and electronic theory and design, wave theory, fluid dynamics, mechanical properties of materials and more before I can even consider buying the strict minimum of fibreglass construction material, high quality speakers and crossovers, a few amps, a couple of processors, soundproofing material and some anti-depressants.

So if anyone with experience and global understanding could put this in perspective, it would be much appreciated.


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

sounds about right. Get started.


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## Wooferine (Oct 21, 2016)

RRizz said:


> sounds about right. Get started.


Yes, because it's not completely obvious that I already have. Congratulations for such a useful contribution.


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## emilime75 (Jan 27, 2011)

Wooferine said:


> Yes, because it's not completely obvious that I already have. Congratulations for such a useful contribution.


No need to a di€k, especially if you expect anyone worthwhile to help you.

You don't necessarily have to know or become any of the things you listed, but it's up to you how involved you want to get and how much you want to learn.

It would also be helpful if you stated your current experience/knowledge, your goals with your system, are you upgrading something like a factory system or an all out install/system.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

One might say it's futile to try & define the most important component or implementation strategy as they're all important and need a collective synergy to make the most of what you can do with X amount of money. Maybe the answer just snuck in there. Maybe it's money - some minimum amount of it...and of course the willingness to spend enough of it to enable all this.


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Wooferine said:


> So of course one weak link in the strongest chain will cause it to fail, but we can't all become end-to-end audiophile electrical and electronic experts just so our cars don't sound crap.


That's the answer to your question. There is no single most important thing that contributes to sound quality. You need a balance of decent hardware (speakers and electronics), decent installation technique and speaker locations, and decent tuning. The A/D/A conversions may have been important sometime in the past, but modern equipment is so good it doesn't matter so you can safely ignore that entire line of thought.

You don't have to become an expert in all aspects of everything. There are some really simple rules of thumb you can follow for each of those topics above. This is where this forum comes into play. When you want to tackle each part, just start searching and asking questions.

If I had to recommend something to put the most emphasis on first, it would be defining your goals. Do you want a one-seat audio experience, or do you want to entertain all of your passengers too? How flexible are you with speaker placement, vs how much of a perfect factory appearance do you want? What is your budget for everything? Do you have a certain experience you are trying to recreate (such as a certain car you have listened to), or are you just trying to get the best experience that (we) know how to build? And finally, how much of this are you willing to do yourself (and how much time do you have to invest), vs how much are you willing to pay someone else do?

If you really answer questions like that, then we can better guide you.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

inb4 people start throwing out percentages...


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Ouch lol.


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## Wooferine (Oct 21, 2016)

Thank you to those of you who added meaningful contributions.

@ Jazzi

I won't expand on my own project here because it was never an intention of my post to link this to what I am trying to do. I posted these examples as a sample of the confusing information that together create the first barrier of myths or outdated advice that DIY newcomers could stumble upon. Your input is encouraging in more ways than one and I thank you for it.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> inb4 people start throwing out percentages...



1 st 90% is dedication to achieve listenable install, another 8% is install/soundproofing/resonances elimination, rest 1% is equipment.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> 1 st 90% is dedication to achieve listenable install, another 8% is install/soundproofing/resonances elimination, rest 1% is equipment.


YOU FORGOT 60% TUNING!!!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> YOU FORGOT 60% TUNING!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


part of 90%


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

Dont forget that A/B amps sound better than D amps.


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## Wooferine (Oct 21, 2016)

Victor_inox said:


> 1 st 90% is dedication to achieve listenable install, another 8% is install/soundproofing/resonances elimination, rest 1% is equipment.


How many percent of trolling in this one? Because even if 0<Ta<Tmfr, where Ta is the Actual Trolling Factor and Tmfr is the Minimum Trolling Factor For Forum Regulars as empirically defined by Chan's law, you're still saying it's not worth buying anything better than Chinese-made coaxials.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

The most important part is simply getting your feet wet. I can't think of anyone on here with a system that hasn't evolved over time due to experience. You can form up a plan just as thorough as can be, but sooner or later you will find little things to improve on and the weak links within your setup will be done over whether it be gear or a simple retune. Just get in there and get your feet wet!


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Wooferine said:


> How many percent of trolling in this one? Because even if 0<Ta<Tmfr, where Ta is the Actual Trolling Factor and Tmfr is the Minimum Trolling Factor For Forum Regulars as empirically defined by Chan's law, you're still saying it's not worth buying anything better than Chinese-made coaxials.


100%. It was sarcastic internal joke you don`t get yet.
BTW I still have chinese made JL coax drivers and they can be tuned just fine.


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## Wooferine (Oct 21, 2016)

Well, 2.5 quality answers out of 11, I really don't see why the old regulars are saying the forum's gone to ****.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Wooferine said:


> Well, 2.5 quality answers out of 11, I really don't see why the old regulars are saying the forum's gone to ****.


well, was there even a question? I don`t see any.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

If you arent willing to define your goals and provide actual info most arent going to be willing to help.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

chefhow said:


> If you arent willing to define your goals and provide actual info most arent going to be willing to help.


It seems he was hypothetically speaking.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Victor_inox said:


> It seems he was hypothetically speaking.


Oh, hypothetically speaking I'd say it works out something like this.

1. You design a car audio system.
2. You purchase a car based on speaker locations, path lengths, depth behind doors panels, kick panels and trunk volume.
3. Tear down said car and begin prep for installation(dampening, deadening wire management).
4. Install
5. Tune
6. Listen
7. Realize mistakes
8. Tear out said system
9. Start over with new equipment....


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## Wooferine (Oct 21, 2016)

It's cool, Jazzi understood and gave a really good answer, so did Bayboy. And I'm all for humour, although mine tends to be a bit deadpan and stealthy it's healthy enough to get the jokes. 
As far as my project goes I'm still at the inquisitive stage, which is a few iterations of looking around, reading a lot, putting down some markers and starting again. Right now it's a case of having way too many questions still which means I still have research to do. Stuff like ok my OEM has a 2 way door install with inline capacitors for the tweeter, so 1) figure out if I'm stuck with those, 2) figure out if it's better to keep those, 3) in fact would I want to keep all original wires and run new ones through...I have about 2000 of those so I have some work to do still.


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## Wooferine (Oct 21, 2016)

chefhow said:


> Oh, hypothetically speaking I'd say it works out something like this.
> 
> 1. You design a car audio system.
> 2. You purchase a car based on speaker locations, path lengths, depth behind doors panels, kick panels and trunk volume.
> ...


 ideally I'd like to get to 10: Be happy enough with the result and move on. I won't have the budget for more than one complete install.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

chefhow said:


> Oh, hypothetically speaking I'd say it works out something like this.
> 
> 1. You design a car audio system.
> 2. You purchase a car based on speaker locations, path lengths, depth behind doors panels, kick panels and trunk volume.
> ...


That remind me of code writer washing his head.
on shampoo bottle it said
1. rinse your hear
2.Lather up — but only at the scalp. ...

4.rinse and repeat. ...






he is still in the shower....


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## Wooferine (Oct 21, 2016)

And I guess I should have put more emphasis on Budgeting. Although my first post was primarily about the wealth of confusing advice that can send people in the wrong direction, it was also about budgeting and avoiding the spending traps created by the wealth of expert advice that may simply be wrong or inapplicable at this time.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

If there's one thing I can think of that would affect keeping overall cost low from swapping gear (which is almost inevitable) I would have to say, buy a good dsp to begin with! When I think about all the trials I've done, having a solid dsp would have made the most of any drivers I've gone through and very possibly kept me from swapping so much. Without the amenities it brings you really won't see the potential of even budget gear. Makes me wish I had bought a dsp much earlier.


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## Wooferine (Oct 21, 2016)

Bayboy said:


> If there's one thing I can think of that would affect keeping overall cost low from swapping gear (which is almost inevitable) I would have to say, buy a good dsp to begin with! When I think about all the trials I've done, having a solid dsp would have made the most of any drivers I've gone through and very possibly kept me from swapping so much. Without the amenities it brings you really won't see the potential of even budget gear. Makes me wish I had bought a dsp much earlier.


I hear you loud and clear. While doing some product/capabilities/possibilities research I spotted a couple of interesting units combining a multi-channel amp and DSP. However I had not thought at all about evolvability and long term planning so you shine an interesting light there. Get a good DSP and possibly keep it separate so everything else around can change without negating that initial investment. Duly noted, thank you.

Not so happy to hear about gear swapping being inevitable but no point wishfully ignoring experience. I'm in a position where I've figured out hard counters to the sound quality issues in terms of where I am and where I want to get so if I do a good job at selecting components it can only get better. Famous bad words I know but confidence is 95% of getting anything done and 100% chance of giving you a chance to go full Yoda and write "warned you I did" a few months from now.


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## JordyG (Dec 1, 2012)

In terms of spending and budgets: determine your goal and what you expect from your system. Then think of which hardware you can use to achieve your goal. Example: Is a HU with build in DSP sufficient or do you need an even more extensive, separate, DSP. 
Sound wise, an amplifier has the least influence in the chain of hardware you use. So rather spend a bit more on a HU or speakers than on the amplifier (entry lines of manufacturers like Gladen or Helix are already very decent amps).

Also think of installation materials as these add up very quickly... 
Cost of installation materials is also influenced by your setup. Example: 1 amp = 1 thick power cable + 1 thick ground cable (and terminals). 2 amps is 1 thick power cable, a fused distribution block, 2 pieces of thinner power cable, 2 pieces of thinner ground cable, preferably a ground distribution block and 1 thick ground cable (and terminals). 
And then comes sound deadening materials, MDF, carpet, glue, fasteners, paint...)
So you get the idea of money spending there, right?

Also think of buying some hardware second hand. It gets you top of the range amps for the price a midrange. I even won 2nd place in EMMA SQ nationals here with an amp I found in the junkjard! 

As said above, it's all about finding the right balance between. But also of having the persistence to keep developing your system and trying to get a better sound out of your equipment. You'd better think twice before entering this hobby at a serious level. ;-)

For an extensive / serious system on a budget I would start with an Excel sheet to get an overview of costs. And then add some more budget...


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## Arete (Oct 6, 2013)

I would say if you are running an active 2 way set minus real fill the quality front speakers are crucial. Mids that will play from 80-2.5khz or higher and tweeters that can be crossed low enough to mate with the 6.5. It's surprising how many mids on the market (even high end ones) that lack in the midbass dept. 

Secondly is time alignment. This can be found in decks and the more expensive option DSPs. Time alignment is probably one of the biggest things that changed the sound in my car for the better. 

Power. Having SOME Power definitely made the sound more dynamic. 

Install. I believe that if you have the first three it can def. sound decent but a good install will make it shine. Especially tending to the doors for the midwoofers.


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## Wooferine (Oct 21, 2016)

@Jordy, @Arete,

Thank you both for your insights, which have just helped crystallize something like an overhead view of the question I started with.

So my original question was how to select a best approach to a car audio install based on the multitude of different pieces of expert wisdom that all seemed to point in different directions. A collateral question was how to budget, financially and otherwise, since the expert advisors all recommended allocating more to their own chosen subsection, whether it be front speakers, processing, sub bass, or any of the other key areas.

What I've just realized reading the responses in this thread again is...damn that's elusive. I swear I had it clear as day when I started the post and now it's floating around. I need to do this systematically, bear with me.

- all of the main areas of car audio need some attention but none of them need be a money pit.
- the areas which will yield the most result relative to investment will be different for every single installation.
- identifying these key areas will allow for optimal budgeting.
- the identification of these areas combined with a definition of the goals of the project and a budget estimate should evolve naturally into the skeleton of an action plan.
- there is no limit to the amount I can spend but there is a limit to how much spending will achieve.
- there is no limit to how much research, work and experimentation will achieve. However all of these carry a price also and especially a time investment.
- no matter how high the theoretical ceiling is, the actual ceilings on budget, time, intellectual and manual abilities will combine into an invisible ceiling for any given project.
- unwittingly hitting the project ceiling will lead to overspending and overworking along with headaches and disappointment.
- realistic goals will make the ceiling softer and bumping into it less painful.
- long-term planning can help minimize costs in the long run through investment into reusable components.

Somehow all these things above fitted in one sentence when I hit 'reply'. Well not all but the first three or four. I wish I'd caught it then and there.


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## Rocketjones (Oct 23, 2008)

A car is a very inhospitable environment in regards to listening to audio. In my humble yet novice opinion, sound deadening is the single most important aspect of car audio.


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

I agree with Rocketjones, sound deadening should come first and will have the greatest benefit to any driver you decide to install. It would be interesting to know the type of vehicle you are planning to upgrade.

If you are skeptical about the sound deadening, don't be, its proven. I was a non-believer and thought it was the driver that mattered most.......it doesn't. You can achieve a very nice sound system with deadening and a DSP. I was amazed with the results of my factory system performance with minor deadening and a system integration DSP (FiX82). 

Here's where things expand, fortunately for me I already have a complete set of aftermarket drivers. All of them over 8 years old but I wanted to do this on the cheap and so far the results are exceeding my expectations. 

Also, as a bit of advice, don't get too caught up with everything that the folks here are in to. If you make calculated decisions and make purchases in small steps, you may find a point where you actually are satisfied with your system. The elusive step 10 realized!


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## veritasz34 (Jul 25, 2011)

From my experience, the most important aspect of a mobile audio system is speaker placement. I have seen a lot of good responses from these threads but placement being the most important.


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