# Repair or Replace? And a tuning question.



## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I bought a set of CD2 comps in 2003-ish and for various reasons they just sat on the shelf. I recently pulled them out to install them in my car and one of the terminals was loose. I took the back off and found this:



















It probably got bumped during one of my many moves across the country. Can I simply repair this by glueing the plastic back together, then solder the lead back together? Or should I just replace the diaphragm?

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The tuning question:

These are going into an '86 Full-Size Bronco with a thin canvas soft top, the hard top is long gone. The horns will be running off a DEH-P800PRS with a pair of IDQ8's low in the doors powered by a bridged JL 300/4 v1 and a pair of IDMAX 12's in back powered by an old MTX RT2400.

Since the car is essentially topless, is there anything you'd do differently when tuning it vs. a "normal" car?

I'll eventually get a much more powerful amp for the subs then run the horns off the MTX.


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## tonny (Dec 4, 2010)

I would always try to fix the connection, if it would not work you can alway buy new dome's….
But be sure not to heat up the wires to the voice coil or you can damage it!


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Gluing it and repairing the connection should work just fine. If not replacements are available.

Eric


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

LumbermanSVO said:


> The tuning question:
> 
> These are going into an '86 Full-Size Bronco with a thin canvas soft top, the hard top is long gone. The horns will be running off a DEH-P800PRS with a pair of IDQ8's low in the doors powered by a bridged JL 300/4 v1 and a pair of IDMAX 12's in back powered by an old MTX RT2400.
> 
> ...


Sorry I missed this before.

If for listening inside while sitting in or driving I suggest tuning it the same. If for use as a portable party system then you would tune it differently.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks, this is a daily driver system. I'll be starting the horn install in a couple hours.

I see that lots of people are using pro drivers for their midbass these days. If given the choice of running a pair of IDQ8's that you already have, or buying a pair of pro drivers instead, what would you do?


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

My suggestion is this.

If you like a heavier midbass presence or like a low crossover to your subwoofers the IDQ8 make an excellent option.

If you prefer fast tight and dynamic a good pro driver like the Beyma 8g40 will do better there.

We are talking about very small differences so you can try one and then the other once you need to scratch the itch to try and make it better.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

In that case I'll stick with the IDQ's for now. Thanks!


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I installed the horns and it sounds so much better. Before playing any music I setup a rough tune using some of the settings you've suggested on here and right away it was sounding good. Makes me wonder why I let them sit on a shelf for 10 years...

The next project is to build the doors for the 8's, right now I have some cheap 6.5's in the stock locations with no sound deadening. I think I have the room in the doors to port the IDQ8's, have you had much luck with porting them for midbass use in the past?


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

They will work great ported as they are a low Q driver. That will extend there useable range even lower depending on your set up it may or may not help much though. I usually only ported them for subwoofer applications.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I'll eventually build my subs into the side of the bed, I need to do some body work first, but it'll be a long while before I do that. In the meantime, the subs are in a cheap pre-fab box and come out regularly to move large objects, or for camping. If the 8's could play down to 60-70hz while that subs are out I'd be thrilled. Any particular enclosure you'd recommend for that?


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

If it's doing mid bass duties I suggest a larger low Q enclosure. In fact you could probably use the door as the enclosure with some proper treatment to the inner door and the door skin and port the whole volume with excellent results and it would be strong to well below 50Hz just not as much volume potential as a larger subwoofer.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

That sounds like fun 

I was already planning to fully rebuild and treat the doors. Once its ready I'll revisit this thread with info about the door volume so we can figure out the port.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm going camping for the 4th next month, so the goal is to have the doors done by then so I can pull the subs if needed.

On a side note, I found a Zapco ST-1000XM(also could also go for the 1500) for dirt cheap so I might be able to shuffle amps around and have some real class a/b power for my subs by then. So power would be:

Horns: MTX RT2400 (50x2ish)
8's: JL 300/4v1 (150x2)
12's: Zapco amp (1000w or 1500w)


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

No help on the amps, but those mylar domed CD2s were my favorites of all of the drivers Eric has used.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Due to the nature of my work, money seems to come in waves, and I had a good wave this morning. I ordered:


Zapco ST-1500XM
PPI DEQ.8
Big 3 Kit
Bigger alternator
128 Sq Ft of MLV (Probably a bit much...)
New Carpet
iMM-6 Microphone

Last week I took delivery of 100 Sq Ft of deadener.

Once the microphone comes in I'll do some road noise tests then start tearing down the interior and really get this project rolling.

Also, this last weekend I finally got to ride in the back seat of my Bronco with the top down. Not only is it the best seat in the car just for the awesomeness factor, but it's amazing how much sound makes it back there from the horns! If I wanted I could just add some midbass back there, throw a delay on them, and it wouldn't be half bad. Of course, they'd be off when ever I didn't have people back there...


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Eric Stevens said:


> My suggestion is this.
> 
> If you like a heavier midbass presence or like a low crossover to your subwoofers the IDQ8 make an excellent option.
> 
> ...


Are you talking IDQ svc 8's, or the DVC's? I'm just curious. I've only know people to use the SVC IDQ's as midbass with Horns.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Yes, they are SVC. Are they really that different that the DVC would be unsuitable for midbass use?


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

The DVC was noted as a subwoofer, and the SVC as a midbass.unless I'm mistaken...... I don't know the parameters of those drivers as they've been long discontinued.. Eric or one of the old team ID guys would know.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Hmmm, the spec sheet for the SVC doesn't say "midbass" but it doesn't say "sub" woofer either. The specs call for ported enclosures to be tuned at 34 or 40hz. At least on the spec sheet it, looks like a "sub" to me. I think it "just happens" to work well as a midbass too. I find it hard to believe that the DVC would be that much different.

On another note, I plugged the iMM-6 mic into my iPhone and did some testing on my car. With the engine off, top closed and windows closed I measured 43db of ambient noise. Part of the reason that number is so high is because of an interstate a couple hundred yards from my house.

Next up I started the car and let it settle to an idle, I measured 56db.

Then I went for a spin, at 35mph I measured 72db, and at 60mph I measured 79db.

I have some more work to do in the blazing sun today, but tomorrow I will start dismantling the interior. Any guesses on how loud the car is without an interior?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Either would work pretty well with the big horns, but I don't think they would be my first choice with the minis in a 2 way front.

Former Team ID guy here...


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Either would work pretty well with the big horns, but I don't think they would be my first choice with the minis in a 2 way front.
> 
> Former Team ID guy here...


Thanks Jason.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

LumbermanSVO said:


> Hmmm, the spec sheet for the SVC doesn't say "midbass" but it doesn't say "sub" woofer either. The specs call for ported enclosures to be tuned at 34 or 40hz. At least on the spec sheet it, looks like a "sub" to me. I think it "just happens" to work well as a midbass too. I find it hard to believe that the DVC would be that much different.
> 
> On another note, I plugged the iMM-6 mic into my iPhone and did some testing on my car. With the engine off, top closed and windows closed I measured 43db of ambient noise. Part of the reason that number is so high is because of an interstate a couple hundred yards from my house.
> 
> ...



Louder than you'll be able to believe.all the carpet padding, carpet soak up a crapload of road noise.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Oh, I know it'll be loud, I used to have a gutted turbocharged Fox body Mustang with dumps just after the firewall, it's gotta be quieter than that, lol. I've just never measured a car without an interior even though I've done lots of deadening over the years.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Measurements with no interior are in, once the rains lets up I'll start with the sound deadening project.

Parked with the engine off: 47db, up by 4db over stock
At an idle: 60 db, up by 4db
At 35mph: 75db, up by 4db
At 60mph: 83db, up by 4db.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I finished up the deadener today and ran some tests. This time it's still gutted, but with Rattle Trap everywhere but the tailgate. The outer door skins have two layers of Rattle Trap and the inner skins have one layer. I haven't sealed up the holes on the inner door skins yet either.

Parked: 44db
Idle: 57 db
35mph: 74 db
60mph: 82 db

So it's looking like there will be real improvements. With the non-moving tests at almost stock levels there are definite signs of improvement! It makes me wonder just how much quieter it would be with radial tires instead of mud tires.

Time to move on to installing the foam and MLV...


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I did a few more noise tests last week, then left the state on a road trip. While I was gone I was able to edit some photos of my progress. Here are the test results from last week:


Parked: 43db, Same as Stock
Idle: 52db, 4db better than stock
35mph: 69db, 3db better than stock
60mph: 78db, 1 db better than stock

This test looks a bit off, but I think it's from a bad window seal on the driver side window. The noise the seal make is much more noticeable now than it was before. I now have the parts to fix this and re run this test.

Here is the passenger door covered in FatMat









Here is the back with a layer of Fatmat and 1/4" thick polyfill matting









I used this glue to attach the polyfill matting to the FatMat









Here is the MLV going in on top of the foam. I have some clips to add to the top of each side so it doesn't fold down.









I didn't get a photo of the foam on top of the MLV, but this will give you an idea of what I used. If I were to do it again, I'd seek out some 1/2" instead of the 1" stuff I used. It is just resting on the MLV, and only on the floors. Once I build my new side panels I'll stuff all the extra space with a similar foam.









Due to the thickness of the foam the carpet didn't go in super smoothly, however I was able to make it look good from the front seats. Here you can see the seats and belt puling at the carpet.









I had to make a spacer to bring the throttle pedal away from the firewall so I could actually push it again. I'm gonna have to build something similar for the shift boot so it fits and looks better. With the new carpet, the rest of the interior looks sooo worn! But don't worry, it was on the list to begin with 









I cut the right rear panel in half so I had something to cover up my JL amp while I work on the rest of the Bronco. I will be building a rack for a my Zapco to go in next to the JL and the sub in the rear. Then a whole new panel to cover it all up.









And not related to the build, my girlfriend sitting in it on the beaches of Carova on our 4th weekend trip, it was my first time driving in sand, and a lot of fun!









I had a bunch of parts show up while I was at work over the last week. All new rubber for both doors, including the noisy window seals. A little Zapco AG200 50x2 amp that'll be MUCH better for the horns than the MTX. Now I'll use the MTX for aux speakers when camping and such. I have all the parts to replace the headliner too. I'll dig in to the project some more tomorrow.

I came up with an idea for bracing the doors to better handle the 8's, I just need to track down some square tubing and play a bit.

While the measurements don't look great at 60mph yet, I could tell a noticeable difference on my trip. I'm gonna try to knock out both doors tomorrow and re run my last test ASAP.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Cross posting from another board:

I'm almost done with the bracing and weather seals on the passenger side. I still have to tie one of the outer braces into the inner braces. Already there is a noticeable difference in how the right speaker sounds compared to the left, and right now I just have some cheap speakers in the stock locations.

Time for pics!

Lets start with the upper braces. I needed a way to tie the brace in to the outer door skin and decided that the mirror mount would make for a good point. the first step was to replace the mirror mounting hardware with something a bit longer.









I replaced all four crews so they match, the top didn't need to be longer though. I didn't notice when I bought then, but the top screws have a different head than the ones I bought for the bottom.









Here is the upper brace, it's 1/2" square steel tubing. I wedged the front into the door then screwed it onto the back side of the mirror mounts. If the front ever comes loose I can secure it on the back side of the door. You can't see in this pic, but I attached it to both lower mirror screws.









Here is the lower brace, it's an awkward pic. I attached it by removing the out trim, then screwing from the outside of the the door into the brace, then I replaced the trim to hide the screws.









Next I added some braces to the inner door and tied it to the upper brace on the outside panel. Now the front upper section of the door feels significantly stronger than the other side.









Here is the inner door bracing.









And this little bad boy is the reasoning behind all the bracing, that's roughly where it'll be going.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

did I read that correctly, did Eric Stevens suggest porting the door itself?


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Yep! And I'm just nutty enough to do it!


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm not getting much done today with this rain.


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## Negolien (May 17, 2010)

Interesting read but man I do have to say that carpet is ugly. Maybe you needed a carpet stretcher like in houses.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Meh, it's not a matter of stretching the carpet, but the foam under it is so thick. There isn't much I can do about that, short of changing how the seats mount, and thats a LOT of work that I don't have the tools for. It looks alright from the front seats though. 

I'll be building a center console that'll hide some of that, and a one piece floor mat across the back would easily hide a lot of it too.

I finished up a bunch of work on the doors today, the braces are in and I have new weather seals and power windows now. The braces really made the crappy little 6.5's I have in the doors right now come alive. 

Tomorrow I'm gonna glue the new headliner material to the headliner and let it sit for a day or two, as well and run another road noise test. On wednesday I leave for almost a month of road gigs, so I'll just do little things over the next few days. I have an all-day local gig on Sunday, so no work then either.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I did some more work on the Bronco recently and ran another test. I've cut road noise by 5db at 35mph and 4db at 60mph over the stock measurements.I leave for a week of work tomorrow, when I get back I'll be focussing on getting the doors built and getting the 8's in.


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