# What are actual differences in alpine 7903,7903ms,alpine 7904,7906R,and 7909,and 7909j and anniversary edition head units



## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Hi, I would like to know what is the difference especially with the alpine 7903 7903ms 7904 and 7906 alpine head units, They pretty much look all the same. I know the alpine 7909J and 7909 anniversary head units were supposed to have better specs than the other units, But a few members from other forums said they could hear no sound quality differences between them all. Also some forum members were saying the 7903 was the one that was only one step down from the alpine 7909 head units. I would have thought the 7906 would be the one that was the step down,But could use some schooling from you oldschool experts on these matters,Even though I have been listening to decks like the alpine 7390 myself since 1988.


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Aren't there any old school people left here that know about these head units. I posted this in the oldschool part of the forums to speak to all you old school fanatics.


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Anybody on here today to chime in on this unanswered question.


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## vwguy383 (Dec 4, 2008)

I would like to know too as I dont think I will ever be able to afford a 7909. They is a guy on here named jeff priddy (user name jeffp) That rebuilds old school alpines and other stuff. He can take a HACKED out 7909 and make them function better then new! Try doing some research on Jeff and maybe he would chime in on thia subject. I would even be willing to do an old school tape deck with an alpine CD changer! There were some changers that had really good processors in them too


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Thanks for chiming in with interest in seeing how close the other 7903, 7904, 7906 units were to the 7909. that is pretty expensive now. The specs from what people say on the 7903,which is suposed to be only one step down from the alpine 7909,Was only 0.002 distortion on the 7909 as compared to 0.003 on the 7903, Which I,m sure unless you have dog ears can't hear the difference. The real difference I say in the specs was the alpine 7909 was 4 volt output as compared to 0.5 mv output. When I asked about that they said,It just meant ,you would half to turn up the amp gain more on the alpine 7903 to match the 4volt output of the 7909,Which I was told could induce extra noise floor into the system,If your amplifier had a higher noise floor. I don't think this will be an issue either if a big enough quality low noise floor distortion free amplifer is used.In a month I will have an alpine anniversary 7909 and 7903 ms ,and will do real world listening to see if it can sound as good as the alpine anniversary 7909 head unit, with simple equalizer tweaks,and the gain just turned up,nothing else changed speaker wise or amp wise, Still looking for other people though ,to still chime in on the differences between all these units,preferably not just spec wise ,but from real world listenig. I'm also aware that he anniversary edition unit has the black out feature, But I don't believe it makes a lot of difference in the clarity,and myself think it sounds bbetter with the lights all on. Stay tuined,though,In about a month,I will at least have the real world testing between the 7909 anniversary edition,against the alpine 7903 ms.


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## ryanr7386 (Feb 21, 2011)

So, differences between a 7903 and a 7904, the 7903 is a Pullout, 7904 is Fixed, the 7904 came with a clock, no difference between the two Audio wise! Same Internals for the Most part. 7906 was a European Market deck, much like the 7915 US version. Now, you will find Night and days difference between the 7903 and the 7909! The 7909 came with Dual Bur Brown Dac's which sets it apart from All other Decks Alpine made. You will hear a Noise floor while listening to the 7903 where as with the 7909 you will not on certain recordings! And it will be Noticeable.


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## vwguy383 (Dec 4, 2008)

Thanks ryan for the info! So is it even possible or cost effective to upgrade a 7903/4 to the burr Brown dacs? I'm guessing that if it is Jeff priddy could do something like that.


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## ryanr7386 (Feb 21, 2011)

vwguy383 said:


> Thanks ryan for the info! So is it even possible or cost effective to upgrade a 7903/4 to the burr Brown dacs? I'm guessing that if it is Jeff Priddy could do something like that.


Jeff would have to answer that question. I'm sure he could go through one and improve it dramatically!


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## vwguy383 (Dec 4, 2008)

Thanks again. Did you ever finish your thunderchicken? As much as I love alpine I was sad when you switched from a/d/s to alpine!


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## ryanr7386 (Feb 21, 2011)

vwguy383 said:


> Thanks again. Did you ever finish your thunderchicken? As much as I love alpine I was sad when you switched from a/d/s to alpine!


LOL, Which time (Finishing it) I sold it and bought a BMW 740i Shorty.


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## vwguy383 (Dec 4, 2008)

European! Nice.


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Hi, Ryan thanks for clarifying some things, different about the 7903 7904,7906 and 7909, Though you do have one thing wrong, which you stated, that was a big difference between the alpine 7903 and 7909. You said it was only the 7909 that had the dual digital to analogue converters. When I found a copy of the actual owners manual and specs for the alpine 7903. It says in the features part of it .Dual digital to analog converters,and when I read in the specifications part of it below the features part ,It says under compact disk part of specifications ,Number of D/A converters- (2). So there is not near the difference between the the 7909 and the second down from it 7903. I have been listening to the alpine anniversary 7909 for 15 years straight now,So I definitely have that sound engrained in my head very well. When the 7903 original specs deck, and the modified 7903 tubed output deck finally arrive here from there italy,and russian destinations, I will definitely be able to tel,l if they compare to the top of the line alpine anniversary 7909. Only thing I will be changing is the gains on the amps if neded to match the 4volt as compared to the 0.5 preout on the 7903 decks. My suspicions are that you are paying a premium price for the 4volt,and blackout feature,Which I don't believe makes it sound any better,or I would personally be running it that way myself,Since I always go for what sounds the best. I will post back in with real world results when they get here,and I get them installed in,Also by the way,Nice BMW you upgraded to.


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## ryanr7386 (Feb 21, 2011)

I don't have both specs in front of me but I do not believe the 7903 Utilized "BurBrown" chip's in the Dac. That's the difference you'll hear with the 7903.


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Not sure if alpine ever used any other dac chips other than burbrown, Or they would have had to make changes on the production line for each model, which companies usually didn't like to do, But neither of us can 100% guarantee this. So I will half to get in the trenches ,and do the real world listening tests when things arrive.I will definitely be able to tell if there is a major difference in the sound quality and fullness of sound, and detail of the alpine 7909 anniversary 7909 compared to the regular or modified 7903. If it turns out you can modify an alpine 7903 or make small adjustments on the gains or equalizer, Then this will still be of great help to others that will most likely never have a chance to own one of the anniversary alpine 7909 decks since they go for crazy money now,and probably less than 300 left in the world.


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## allnpt0 (Feb 10, 2009)

The 7903/4 did not use Burr-Brown DAC’s. The 7909 has PCM1701 DAC’s.


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## ryanr7386 (Feb 21, 2011)

masterblaster said:


> Hi, Ryan thanks for clarifying some things, different about the 7903 7904,7906 and 7909, Though you do have one thing wrong, which you stated, that was a big difference between the alpine 7903 and 7909. You said it was only the 7909 that had the dual digital to analogue converters. When I found a copy of the actual owners manual and specs for the alpine 7903. It says in the features part of it .Dual digital to analog converters,and when I read in the specifications part of it below the features part ,It says under compact disk part of specifications ,Number of D/A converters- (2). So there is not near the difference between the the 7909 and the second down from it 7903. I have been listening to the alpine anniversary 7909 for 15 years straight now,So I definitely have that sound engrained in my head very well. When the 7903 original specs deck, and the modified 7903 tubed output deck finally arrive here from there italy,and russian destinations, I will definitely be able to tel,l if they compare to the top of the line alpine anniversary 7909. Only thing I will be changing is the gains on the amps if neded to match the 4volt as compared to the 0.5 preout on the 7903 decks. My suspicions are that you are paying a premium price for the 4volt,and blackout feature,Which I don't believe makes it sound any better,or I would personally be running it that way myself,Since I always go for what sounds the best. I will post back in with real world results when they get here,and I get them installed in,Also by the way,Nice BMW you upgraded to.


 Just to clarify, I stated, "The 7909 came with Dual Bur Brown Dac's which sets it apart from All other Decks Alpine made" not the fact that it came with 2 DA Converter.


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

If the alpine 7903 and alpine 7904 didn't use bur brown dacs. What did the alpine 7903 and alpine 7904 decks use for their dacs. Did they use the PCM1701 DAC’s like the alpine 7909 did .If not what did those 2 decks use.


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## ryanr7386 (Feb 21, 2011)

Per quote from Jeff Priddy, 

"Alpine and most manufacturers used burr brown DAC's different part numbers but same manufacturer.The 7903 unit utilizes a dual input Sanyo LC7881MC DAC. The 7909 utilizes two Burr Brown PCM1701P DAC's. hope that helps."

I have asked Jeff to shed more input on this subject as well.


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Yes ryan, that definitely helps. How far off sound quality wise, do you think the Sanyo LC7881MC DAC's s are compared to the Burr Brown PCM1701P DAC's.


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## ryanr7386 (Feb 21, 2011)

masterblaster said:


> Yes ryan, that definitely helps. How far off sound quality wise, do you think the Sanyo LC7881MC DAC's s are compared to the Burr Brown PCM1701P DAC's.


Alot of Difference between the two. I've owned at least 4 7909, currently using a 7909J, and you can literally hear subtle nuances in the music on any 7909 that you will Not hear with a 7903, 4, 14 or a 15. Its all in the Burr Brown DAC's. The S/N ratio is much higher, Stereo Seperation etc with a 7909 as well.


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Figured there must be quite a bit of difference alright, or everybody would just be buying the lower end models instead of the highly sought after 7909. I guess lucky for me, Since I am trying the experiment in reverse of what most people would do and testing the sound quality going down from the alpine anniversary 7909 down to the alpine 7903. At least if I don't like it. I can just put the 7909 back in. Still think it will be interesting with the high end tube that was installed into the 7903 to see how close that evens the score. Not likely to equal it though after talking with you but, also never ever seen one of these units ever tubed out before, Again thanks for chiming in on all my questions clarifying things. I know you are like myself ,and have been into oldschool for quite some time. So I respect your opinions always,which are usually not just opinion ,but fact. If the tubed out one ends up sounding very close or some how bests it,Rest assured,You will be the first one to hear about it. Thanks again for your help.


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## ryanr7386 (Feb 21, 2011)

Now you did state it had a Tube installed in the signal path so it very well could equal that of a 7909 but not for sure how close! I'm basing my observations on original specification between the two though. Keep us posted though.


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## IECO44 (Aug 4, 2020)

Guys, a tube gives sound a warm touch but at the end is an amp, not a DAC. Its function is very different and one thing cannot substitute for the other.
DACs recreate the digital encoded CD sound to analog. Most DACs are 16bit while some high end go up to 24bits. The PCM1701 is 18bits. 
The higher this number the more steps that are used to recreate the digital stream sound. With more steps smaller and more subtle details can be heard giving music more depth and definition.
If you use a lower number of bits DAC that detail is simply lost. No way it can be recreated or compensated by a tube (or anything else). Its like when you lower resolution on a picture. Detail lost is lost forever. 
Tubes by the way are not low distortion devices. The “warmth” they introduce is actual distortion, but is different than the one from solid state stuff. One is pleasent to the ear. The other is not. 
Looking forward to your listening evaluation.


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## IECO44 (Aug 4, 2020)

Back to the differences, they are not only sound quiality. A lot are features. 
For example, 7909 offers external CD changer control. The other do not. It comes with a high contrast VFD (fluorescent vacuum) display. For the rest, some do and some use regular (lower cost) LCDs (liquid crystal displays). 
The 7906R has a dot matrix display and an RDS tuner. The display can show station information. None of the other 790x versions do. 
Some offer only one set of L&R outputs. Other offer two sets, front and back. 
And the list goes on...


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Hi, IEC044, Thanks for chiming in on my thread with your last 2 posts,verifying things a little more about how the tube works to differentiate the sound as compared to the transistors. I was able finally get the tubed out 7903ms deck in the mail ,and it is installed now. I havent had enough time to listen to it, as long as I would like, But so far, the dacs in the 7903ms deck, even though they are not burr brown, Are at least equal in sound quality to my alpine anniversary 7909 anniversary head unit, which I have listened to for over 10 years now. With the tube in there, it is at least, equaling the 7909 anniversary sound quality in every way. I made absolutely zero changes to the eq or crossovers. One thing that surprised the hell out of me was,That one poster said because the 7903ms deck was only 0.5 volt output,that I would half to turn up the gain on my amps ,and may induce more noise into the system. This was not the case at all. It is equally as loud there as well. What I see, is that the display is not as flashy,But that is not an issue for me at all,and the only other thing I liked a little better on the alpine 7909 was the treble and bass slider knobs have a hole in each of them to let out that nice green light for each of them, to better see them at night.THogh they are still both backlit, So you can still see them easily,Just looks a little different to me. What effects me the most, was there is no clock built into the 7903ms deck. That is, believe it or not, my biggest pet pieve between the two decks. Though my main concern is always sound quality at the very high volume listening levels,and the tubed alpine 7903ms is equaling the alpine anniversary 7909 in every way. I kind of wanted to post this update to this thread, to the people that replied to this thread, by private message. Since I not only think it sounds as good,But I know it sounds better than my very expensive alpine 7909 anniversary decks, and will be keeping the modified 7903ms tubed deck in the car, and probably sell both of my alpine 7909 anniversary decks.But didn't want to hurt my sale price for them,If people caught on to this. Oh well I guess the cat is out of the bag now. Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread.


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## IECO44 (Aug 4, 2020)

Thanks for your comments. I dont think your evaluation on SQ of a modified 7903 would affect 7909 pricing. 7909 is sought after for many reasons and has built a reputation. Your personal listening opinion is certainly important but I dont think will move the needle significantly on overall market perception/ pricing.
Please feel free to share pics of the modified 7903. Would be very interesting taking a look (and also listening to, although difficult to do remotely).
cheers !


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## IECO44 (Aug 4, 2020)

On audio files, a wide range of encoding options exists. Using a higher resolution DAC allows files encoded at a higher resolution to be reproduced with higher fidelity. Up to 24bits is common.
CDs are almost exclusively encoded at 16 bits though, so using a slightly higher resolution DAC would probably be advantageous on the ENOB only, as source material wont have data beyond 16 bits. That is probably the case of the 7909 using an 18bit DAC. While 18 or 16 is the architecture, noise, linearity, etc usually cause an effective lower equivalent, and having an 18bit hardware can help getting a cleaner and better 16 bit performance than 16 bit hardware would.
Differences may or may not always be noticed. Depends on source material as well as the whole reproduction chain, from HU to amp to speakers etc.


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## IECO44 (Aug 4, 2020)

Some extra details on ENOB (effective number of bits)





Effective number of bits - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Hi, I am oldschool like the deck, and do not own a cellphone or a digital camera ,but the Ebay guy that sold me the deck, did a short video of it to show me all the functions were working, He didn't play the music very long each time, But you can still tell that it sounds pretty good even in the video. I'm not sure if the video file I am trying to upload is working, So I guess we'll half to wait and see,It has been hours ,and it still only says 20% uploaded.


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

I tried to upload the video. It is failing to upload every time I try. takes hours and gets to about 40% and then fails and says oops something went wrong. Thanks though for every ones input so far.


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## IECO44 (Aug 4, 2020)

Video on the 7903 with tube mod?
Where are you trying to upload? Here? 
If you have an account anywhwre else as Youtube or Facebook, it may be easier uploading there and just posting here the link. 
Thanks though.


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## IECO44 (Aug 4, 2020)

Ps. Im contemporary to those HUs too. 
Good old days!


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## masterblaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Hi, I was trying to get the video posted here since I don't have face book or you tube. I,m also happy to speak to an oldschool fan of these quality made alpine decks and products from a simpler time. Since you are oldschool like myself can you get your hands on some of the alpine spx-f17t crossovers. Thanks


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## Dubstep (Apr 7, 2010)

Im going to buy a 7909 30th, mainly because that was the **** when I was a young teen, to this day I feel like I did when I first seen it. One of these days.. Not sure why I havent already? Only alpine ive had was a 7995 dead head. Then to a drz9255 which was awesome, sold it to a diyma member and wish I didnt. Im used to the sound of a Denon Z1 ran balanced. I havent heard anything better.
Ive read all about that guy Jeffp who mods the 09's. Seems like a really good guy who loves car audio and its people, which makes it a no brainer to let him handle it.


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## ryanr7386 (Feb 21, 2011)

Dubstep said:


> Im going to buy a 7909 30th, mainly because that was the **** when I was a young teen, to this day I feel like I did when I first seen it. One of these days.. Not sure why I havent already? Only alpine ive had was a 7995 dead head. Then to a drz9255 which was awesome, sold it to a diyma member and wish I didnt. Im used to the sound of a Denon Z1 ran balanced. I havent heard anything better.
> Ive read all about that guy Jeffp who mods the 09's. Seems like a really good guy who loves car audio and its people, which makes it a no brainer to let him handle it.


Good luck and be ready to spend some Major Coins! Jeff actually specializes in the 7909J units so you are aware. One will run you between $1000-$1400 depending on what mods you want done.


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## Robb (Dec 5, 2008)

You forgot the rare 7905


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## Robb (Dec 5, 2008)




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