# Build Log: This Nissan's Final Frontier



## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Hi everyone. I've been a member for a little while, been gathering information, parts and such for the past year or so and I started an install in my 2012 Nissan Frontier Crew Cab. I'm progressing with the rebuilding of my existing system so I'm creating a fresh build log (not that I ever really had a proper one).

The existing system is comprised of the following:

Pioneer DEH PRS80 deck
2 way DynAudio Esotec (262 I believe)
iPad, somewhat mounted in the dash with re-located a/c controls
Audison SR4 4ch amp (running the fronts active)
Steg 02:02
2x Kenwood shallows in a pre-fab box

I was ready for the next stage and I'm upgrading/changing out some components, here is the new system (everything has been ordered and delivered except the V9, which is apparently on backorder with Alpine).

Pioneer DEH PRS80 (remaining)
Alpine PXA H800 DSP & RUX C800 Controller
Adding the 3-inch DynAudio MD142 dome midrange to make a 3-way set
Alpine PDX F4 4ch amp for mids & highs
Alpine PDX V9 for sub and bridged to midbass
Stereo Integrity BM Mk iv
Mostly new KnuKonceptz wiring (4g power, new distros, 14g speaker wire and a whole crap load of tech flex)

I'll start with the a-pillars in the next post, here is a picture of the truck when I picked it up on valentine's day last year... it had 41 miles on it, now it has 38,000.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Okay, here is the build on the A-pillars...

Started playing around with the positioning of the speakers (this was when I had the MS8 installed so quickly re-tuning was nice and simple), decided on off-axis in the A pillars.







Started making the rings for the 3-inch (which has an OD of 4.75!)









Then made the rings for the tweeters.




Aimed the rings and hot glues in place (although not ideal, the size of the midrange did not leave me much choice).



Wrapped with t-shirt material and hit with a layer of resin. I learned the hard way that CA glue is the best method to attach the material at this point.


Then hit with a layer of fiberglass. Usually I like to reinforce from the inside, but there wasn't much meat to work with on the back side.





And the body filler fun begins...







Layer of spot filler



Primer and final sanding




Texture coat and painted


Soldered wires onto the terminals (I don't know which genious decided on the locations of the terminals, but they really blow), there is very little room between the mounting screw hole and the terminal, making the rings fabrication a bit of a pain.



Installed the XT60 connectors so the a-pillar can be removed in the future a little easier.



Mounted the mid range in the a pillar with stainless steel through-bolts.



And here they are installed.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Very nice job on the a pillars. Great attention to detail and nice documentation.

Yes I agree, the design of the terminals on the mids is horrible. I have had many issues with that, I like your solution.


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## diatribe (Aug 11, 2008)

The aiming of the drivers looks low, but the build quality of the pillars is awesome! Good work.

Swinging away with Tapatalk


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Tuned in for more!


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## HardCoreDore (Apr 30, 2014)

Subscribed!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

diatribe said:


> The aiming of the drivers looks low, but the build quality of the pillars is awesome! Good work.


Yes, the aiming is a little funny, I was trying to keep them low profile-ish.

Integration of the new system while not entirely taking out the old so I'm not without sounds is challenging. I'll be starting on the sub box tomorrow. I have the BM jelly jammed in an old pre-fab box I had laying around just to test it out, although the box is twice the size it should be it still sounds great, can't wait to get it in a correctly sized enclosure.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Got started on my sub box today. Played around with a few positions and decided that on the floor behind the center console suited my needs best.

Started by taking some rough dimensions and mockups.





































Then started on the bottom piece...


















And started putting the sides on (temporarily screwed, will glue and screw once everything is cut and fits).




























And this is where I ended for this evening. Hopefully I will be able to get the rest of the woodwork done tomorrow and the finish work done during the week. I need to do a kerf cut piece for the front around the woofer which will be fun!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Got my kerfed piece done and nailed on. Letting it dry, then I'll get back to it. Any recommendations for what to fill the gaps with? I was thinking either fiberglass, kitty hair bondo or wood glue?


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## YukonXL04 (Mar 6, 2014)

Looking good. Usually fill the gaps with wood glue, then fiberglass over it once it's dried to its curved shape


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## Yawar538 (Aug 28, 2013)

Looks perfect. Love the precision in the wood work.
Slitting the wood to angle/turn it is something creative. Looking forward to further updates 

Btw by any chance have you come across the YouTube channel of SoundMan?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks for the comments.
Yes. I have seen the soundman.


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

Awesome work bud! How do the Dyns sound angled that way? Any imaging issues?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

DLO13 said:


> Awesome work bud! How do the Dyns sound angled that way? Any imaging issues?


I only have the tweeters hooked up right now and so far so good. My soundstage is actually deeper than it was before, which isn't that surprising as they moved back about 3-inches.

I do plan on re-doing the apillars a little. I was not entirely happy with the way they came out (aiming or the finish). But they'll do for now. I still have to finish the subwoofer box, amp rack, re-wire and I have a feeling I'm going to need to re-mount the mids in the doors. I had a shop do it a while back as I was working 75 hours a week and had no time but I'm not seeing the midbass response I'd expect from a 7-inch Dyn. I have a feeling I'm in for a surprise when I open the door up haha. I'll definitely post pictures of whatever I do find in there.

Now back to today's progress:







Don't mind the bondo - the box had a run-in with a slightly sideways nail.











This shows, what will be, the total height with the grill.


Hopefully during the week I will be able to finish sanding the box, apply carpet and bolt in place. I need to make some form of a leg (where you see the roll of masking tape), figured I would do some kind of a ring and run the bolt through it too.


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## Bret Triano (May 16, 2014)

The pillars look great man, almost stock.

I'm curious to see how this sub box turns out. Have you thought about maybe building like a console in the back seat to kind of cover the sub? Or are you looking to keep that middle seat?  I gotta see how it turns out lol its driving me crazy.

All your works looks great though! definitely looking forward to see more of this.

-Bret


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Bret Triano said:


> I'm curious to see how this sub box turns out. Have you thought about maybe building like a console in the back seat to kind of cover the sub? Or are you looking to keep that middle seat?  I gotta see how it turns out lol its driving me crazy.


I have a 4yr old and one on the way so the legroom is not too important but the seat is. I'm going to finish it with a grill of some sort. I made the ring for the grill, I'm thinking of finishing it with a metal grill and then carpet.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I'm not sure what happened, I typed a whole post, hit send and it posted text from earlier posts...

Anyways, after having the apillars in for a few days I don't think I like the way the tweeters sound, probably because of added window reflections the center image became very wide I moved the tweeters to the stock positions in the dash and aimed them on axis. So far I think I'm liking them better... I'll give it a few days but I may end up cutting the tweeter section out of the apillars and fabricating little mounts for the dash.

I had to cut the drivers side by 10db and delay the drivers side midbass further tan the previous set up. I don't have the midranges hooked up yet as I'm still waiting for the last amp to arrive.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Got the metal grill cut and installed. Almost ready for grill cloth..









P.s. this metal was $38 at do it, or 19 at home depot


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Any advice on what to adhere the metal with? I was thinking epoxy.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Some nice work on that box and pillars.

If you are willing/able you could cut a circle a bit smaller than the ID of that ring, give it a half inch roundover, set another piece of metal on top circle then hammer down that ring you have there on top of it. You might end up with a press fit nicely rounded grill. Tho I used that same metal and it may be a little heavy to mold like that.

Otherwise epoxy would certainly work. Or cut your relief just a little deeper and run some reinforced filler around the edge on top of the grill then sand it all nice and smooth.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I don't have enough metal left otherwise I would... It's getting speaker grill cloth over the top anyways. Think I'll just epoxy it.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Good ole hot melt glue would get the job done as well. The yellow sticks.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Hey, thanks fot the hint REGULARCAB the hot glue worked great. I even got it wrapped.

I used wood dowel for a secure, but easily removable fit.









Primered it black to minimize show through.









Added black grill cloth, stapled to the inside of the ring from the back.









And threw it on the box.









Got my tnuts in for the sub too.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Hopefully I can get it carpeted tomorrow and properly installed and mounted on Sat.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

That looks damn good my friend!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I have a feeling carpeting this thing is going to be a mutha f'r


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

You went to all that work already you might round those inside edges with body filler. Im going to look for the build log. It was musicar northwest or SiS i believe that used a little beauty panel about half way down on the sides, so you carpet the top then just stretch it down the sides a ways, to avoid seams. Then add your little panel to the sides.

Edit: hmmm this isnt it but its pretty.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

was this the one?

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...basic-sq-build-morel-mosconi-audiomobile.html


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> was this the one?
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...basic-sq-build-morel-mosconi-audiomobile.html


That would be it


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Yeah, rounding the edges is a good idea. I was also thing I may take out the spacer thats around the sub (holding up the grill) and make a larger top piece. Would be one less corner to deal with.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I removed the ring that is shown in the picture below and created the trim piece "full size". This eliminates one corner that I had concerns on carpeting. I also shaved down a couple of the corners to help with the carpet.



























I also added a leg on the end.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Alright, it took me over an hour and a half but I got it carpeted




Got the wiring installed and little banana jack plugs.


Subwoofer in


Grill on


And installed in the truck


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## SHAGGS (Apr 24, 2011)

Been sub'd from the first hour you posted. 
I was actually looking for one of these when I somewhat impulsively bought my Maxima.

Looks good!

I don't like to criticize, but If you ever get the itch to re-do the sub enclosure, some random idea's/suggestions;
Rounded corners _would_ prolly look a little cleaner. 
Although, sometimes I've found it makes for tougher going, getting the carpet to stretch and lay flat.

I would also think of maybe flipping the sub. 
Downfire the sub, in the same location, source some OE cup holders from a junkyard, or a universal one from Wally world, and mold it into the top.
I just think it would look really nice with a solid console (front to back) that looks like it was meant to be there.

Similar to this, http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/158166-x-runner-10w7-fronts.html but obviously not a full split rear.
If it came up from under, and hugged the rear seat, then blended into the front console, IMO it would look tits!

I dunno, just some ramblings. 
I've been reading too many of Bing's threads lately. I've been blinded by subtly.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

SHAGGS said:


> Been sub'd from the first hour you posted.
> I was actually looking for one of these when I somewhat impulsively bought my Maxima.
> 
> Looks good!
> ...


 yes, I think we've all read to many of Bings build logs. To an extent, he was my inspiration to start this rebuild.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Although not huge progress, I did get the XT60 connectors on the tweeters. I used the female connector on the tweeter (whereas I used the male on the mid) so they physically cannot be connected wrong.










I might get started on the amp rack tomorrow.

Right now I have the Audison SR4 under the drivers seat powering the mid bass and tweeter, and the Steg K02:02 under the passenger seat for the sub. The Audison is getting replaced with the Alpine PDX F4 to power the tweets & mids, the Steg is getting replaced with the PDX V9 to power the sub and send 200w to each mid bass. The only problem is I don't have the V9 yet as it is on back order with Alpine. I might just set the amp rack up with the F4 so I can power the mids & tweets and get the 3way running (right now I don't have the mids hooked up as I don't have any amp channels for them).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

Great job on the build. I've always been quite fond of that generation Frontier. Such a ridiculously smooth engine. Feels like it shouldn't be powering a truck lol.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Got my amp rack part way done yesterday so at least I can run the whole 3 way set in the front.

Its essentially just vinyl over mdf.









Secured the amp that I have and the H800.









Rivet nutted it to the rear wall of the cab.









Ran my new 4g power cable to the back.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I forgot to take photos but I ran new 14g speaker cable to the mids and tweeters. I had planned on tech flexing the wires but out proved to be a huge PITA and then when I was half way through a 20 ft run I hit a splice in the reel! I couldn't get the splice on the wire, ended up breaking the tech flex at the splice and the tech flex was then thrown across the garage.


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## TheDavel (Sep 8, 2006)

Nice build, I like the enclosure. Not the way I would want to do it, way 2 complicated! (2 much carpentry and measuring)


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Just of off curiosity, how would you build the box. I'm open to ideas...


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## TheDavel (Sep 8, 2006)

This is how I would do it (again)... It is the quick "idiot" proof way IMO... I would've made a lot of mistakes going your way. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150324346414233.359869.105688119232&type=3


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I wish you didnt show me that. Makes me want to redo mine. Very nice work.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Im also curious where you put your amps?


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## TheDavel (Sep 8, 2006)

This was my buddies truck, if I remember correctly, we put the amps behind the seat? I'll text him and find out... It's been so long I can't remember. We did a audison 5.1k, BitOne, and Thesis components up front. Initially he had a Thesis 10, but didn't like it... So the Mille 12 is what we did next. He is very happy now.


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## TheDavel (Sep 8, 2006)

jnchantler said:


> I wish you didnt show me that. Makes me want to redo mine. Very nice work.


Don't redo yours, it's beautiful and you should be proud that it came out that good with all the cuts you had to make. Only reason to redo it is if it doesn't sound how you want it.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

TheDavel said:


> Don't redo yours, it's beautiful and you should be proud that it came out that good with all the cuts you had to make. Only reason to redo it is if it doesn't sound how you want it.


Yeah, your probably right.

Does anyone is SoCal want to come help/teach me to tune this thing... Won't be for a couple of weeks but I thought I'd put it out there.


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## TheDavel (Sep 8, 2006)

The bit one is under his drivers seat, the amp is behind the rear seat.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I just picked up a good variety of beer from Deschutes brewery in Oregon if this persuades anyone to throw some of their knowledge my way on tuning. I've read as many articles and threads as I can but I think I need and actual walk through...


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

Beach Autosound in HB tunes.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I wonder if they'll take a couple of 6 packs for a tune? Ha ha


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm watching!!!


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

jnchantler said:


> I'm not sure what happened, I typed a whole post, hit send and it posted text from earlier posts...
> 
> Anyways, after having the apillars in for a few days I don't think I like the way the tweeters sound, probably because of added window reflections the center image became very wide I moved the tweeters to the stock positions in the dash and aimed them on axis. So far I think I'm liking them better... I'll give it a few days but I may end up cutting the tweeter section out of the apillars and fabricating little mounts for the dash.
> 
> I had to cut the drivers side by 10db and delay the drivers side midbass further tan the previous set up. I don't have the midranges hooked up yet as I'm still waiting for the last amp to arrive.


 First design looks better but sound bouncing off the dash in many directions screwed your imaging. You might try put them directly in stock holes facing windshield. I`ve got surprisingly good result in 4runner ( same tweet location). What would be wicked is that if you fabricate some sort of solenoid driven mechanism that tweets will pop up when system turned on.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Having them as pictured above didn't fair well for the soundstage. I might try just putting them in the sock locations.I've done a few systems that way and also had good results. I'm still up in sun river, OR right now so it'll have to wait a few days as I make my way down the 395 back to LA. Meanwhile, here's a picture to keep you guys occupied: Crater Lake OR.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Couple of updates...

I'm back from vacation, but I think I need to go again.

I've had the PDX F4 running the mids and tweets for a couple of weeks but now I'm having doubts about the PDXs, they sound good and have plenty of power but I think I preferred the Audisons. At this point I'm thinking I may move the Steg back to behind the rear seats on the amp rack and use both Audisons, one under each seat. I was think I would use one amp for each side (mid, tweet & bridged to the mid bass), would cut down on wire runs too. If anyone is looking for a two week old PDX F4 and a brand new PDX V9 (who's birth sheet says 143x4 let me know...

On a separate note, guy stopped by my work today who is an old time friend of the owner, as well as an audiophile that used to compete on the Seas team. He offered to help give me a base tune which was cool. He spent an hour or so on it and made some interesting changes, mainly on the crossovers, he took the low pass on the tweeters from 2800 up to 5000, the mid range was changed from 900-2800 to 500-5000, and to help handle a resonance in the 300 range he dropped the low pass on the mid bass down to 250. This left a fairly large gap between the mid bass and midrange but surprisingly it didn't sound like anything was missing. Aye also worked on the t/a and eq a little. Sounded much better after all this, my only issue right now is the center image starts at the left pillar and continues to the rear view mirror. He said he was having difficulty with this due to the reflections off the window and recommended moving the tweeters. So tomorrow I will try moving the tweeters to the stock locations and see how that goes.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I moved the tweeters into the stock locations temporarily this afternoon and played around with the crossovers, levels and t/a. For some reason it was difficult, but I was able to get a decent center image - a little wide though. I ran into an oddity too, the mid bass is low passed at 250 12/db, the vocalist was coming right out of the drivers apillar, when I changed the slope to 6db it moved almost dead center, played back and forth with this a few times as it was bizarre to me that a crossover slope could make that much of a difference.

I think I'll be leaving them there for now. Unless anyone has any input on better locations I can try.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Made a teeny bit of progress today. Got the controller for the H800 mounted up in the over head console.























Figure I'd try to make the truck presentable for the meet on Saturday.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

I really love this build man keep going please !


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

optimaprime said:


> I really love this build man keep going please !


Thanks!

I'm trying, just at a bit of a stand still right now. Having issues in the the 300hz range with the 7" Dyns in the doors, major resonance. Trying to decide whether to change out the dome mids with something that will play down to that range or build the mid out of the door panel to handle the resonance... hopefully I can get some good advice on Saturday that doesn't email me just throwing money at it, although those esotar mids are mighty tempting...

Also haven't decided whether to keep the iPad in the dash (its quite ugly) or to pull it out and put a double dinn in.

And I also can't decide which amps to keep as now I have 5, or where to put them as the one that I have behind the rear seat gets really hot.

I may also redo the sub box and fire it down....

Jesus, that made my head spin.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

I know your pain I can't get time to finish build. I want one of si subs.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

So in getting ready for the meet in San Jose I moved the 5ch pdx to the back on the amp rack. In doing this I somehow created a turn on pop, fairly faint but noticeable and especially in the subwoofer.

I think this could either be because I created a ground loop by grounding both amps to the same spot, or maybe because I put the distribution block right next to the dsp. In retrospect, neither of which was a great idea.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

So I did compete yesterday, and considering I have never actually heard an SQ setup before I think I did okay.

Here is my score sheet, any input is welcome as to how to improve on these points.










I think the resonance is the 1 issue I'm confident I can fix.


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

jnchantler said:


> So I did compete yesterday, and considering I have never actually heard an SQ setup before I think I did okay.
> 
> Here is my score sheet, any input is welcome as to how to improve on these points.
> 
> ...


I think you can fix everything, but resonance should be easy to start with. Are you able to hear the same things the judge heard?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Everything except the "lacking low end extension". And just a note on this, the sub is low passed at 40hz. The mids are low passed at 63 both on 3rd order slopes


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

One thing to look at on the wandering vocals is an issue I am having. Play test tones and note how they center. I had an issue with vocals in the lower range pulling to the right. I played some tones in the 200-260 range and sure enough, those tones pull hard to the right. I will play with the eq some and see what I can do with it...


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> One thing to look at on the wandering vocals is an issue I am having. Play test tones and note how they center. I had an issue with vocals in the lower range pulling to the right. I played some tones in the 200-260 range and sure enough, those tones pull hard to the right. I will play with the eq some and see what I can do with it...


It's funny you mentioned that, I knew I had issues in that area before I entered the car so the week before I tried out the "my sound stage ate my windshield method" and I couldn't get some of those lower mid range frequencies quite coherent and centered. I'm think it may be due to the resonance, which is around 3-400. I'll try to play around with it some more.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

It was great meeting you on Saturday James! I like your truck, I think it has lots of potential. I finally got to hear an SI sub lol. Remember, you have presets for a reason. Daily driving tune, competition tune


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Golden Ear said:


> It was great meeting you on Saturday James! I like your truck, I think it has lots of potential. I finally got to hear an SI sub lol. Remember, you have presets for a reason. Daily driving tune, competition tune


Hey, thanks man.

Your truck brought back some memories for me. I miss my 250 and I love the placement of your sub! Maybe when gas is back down to 89c a gallon I'll get another one.

I'm starting to round up the materials to re-do the doors, so there should be some pic's soon.

I'll hit you up next time I'm in Monterey!


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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

It was good to meet you James! Like others have said, your truck definitely has potential... 

On questions you might have on your score sheet, I would PM Papasin. He will be able to give you more specific feedback.

Look forward to what you have in store!


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

That's a good start. Based on the comments there are some quick solutions that you can implement to take you up to low 70's and from there on the scores will depend on the tune and sound. You would have covered all the areas to a certain basic level i.e. you shouldn't score less than 3.5/5 or 4.5/6. Here are somethings you can look at and see if these home grown recipes work for you .

*1. Image Shifts / Wanders: *Issue is balancing L/R. Draw an imaginary line from your rear view to the top of your dash. Play the pink noise tracks and centre each track on this line. If vocals move around then look at 200-4khz range specifically. With some frequencies you will find that no matter what you do with the eq, the frequency just doesn't centre up. If it smears hard left then just add like one click of delay to the left driver playing that frequency. Vice versa if the troublesome frequency pans hard right. Once you've done the L/R balance you should have a stable image.

*2. Need better low end extension:* Don't under or overlap the sub and woofer. Cross both at 60hz on 4th order slopes. Next only play the sub and any one midbass. Play with the delay on the mid-bass till you feel and hear the entire low end flowing from it. There is a range of delay in which you will get this effect. You're looking for the point where you have maximum clarity along with a nice low end. 

You will go from thinner and hence not there yet to just right to a bit more low end but muffled clarity and you've gone too far. Now do the same with the other mid bass. Now both your MB are in phase with the sub _and _ with each other. 
This will give the judge the 'excursion?' he's looking for. It's not really excursion but timing and response between the sub and the MB. 

*3. Stage Height - Pulls Down* Where are your speakers mounted? I'm sorry I haven't read back into the thread. Also, what are the xover points and slopes? It could something simple like bringing more of the image carrying cues up higher or something else. Let's see.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

jnchantler said:


> Hey, thanks man.
> 
> Your truck brought back some memories for me. I miss my 250 and I love the placement of your sub! Maybe when gas is back down to 89c a gallon I'll get another one.
> 
> ...


Just checked my mpg this morning...13 BABY!!! Lol

Definitely hit me up next time you're around. We can grab some grub and talk car audio


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Golden Ear said:


> Just checked my mpg this morning...13 BABY!!! Lol
> 
> Definitely hit me up next time you're around. We can grab some grub and talk car audio


You ever go to First Awakenings? Or Flahretys? Probably a couple of my favorite restaurants.

I got 15 mpg once in my 250. Driving to Vegas & back with 3 other guys, 400lbs of ammo and a few ar's. I also got 6 towing through town. A few months later I got 51 on the same trip in my Jetta.


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## palldat (Feb 6, 2011)

I really wanted to hear your truck while I was there but we ran out of time. Also, how did the tune work out with Mike? I ran out of time for him too as he was going to do a tune for me as well. The build log looks great.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

The tune with Mike went great. He impressed the he'll out of me with his tuning abilities. There was no back and forth on it, he said change x, I changed x and that was it. I wished he lived a little closer, I'd take him out to black bear dinner every Saturday in exchange for more tuning. I didn't hear your car either, are you gonna be at the next meet?
Your only down in Inglewood though. I'm just up in tweaker town california, so we could meet up some time.


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## gsWes (Feb 15, 2014)

Sir, how was it fitting the pr80 in the dash with rcas hooked up? I have the same truck and have played HELL trying to fit headunits that i like. The structural beam behind the radio always causes clearance issues with the rca connectors.


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## gsWes (Feb 15, 2014)

Looks great btw.. Makes my setup look really home grown. I gotta get the ballz to break out the fiber glass n resin for my pillars!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

gsWes said:


> Sir, how was it fitting the pr80 in the dash with rcas hooked up? I have the same truck and have played HELL trying to fit headunits that i like. The structural beam behind the radio always causes clearance issues with the rca connectors.


That's odd. I've never had problems with the beam. I tried to take a picture in there from the top but the radio is higher than the beam. Is the pocket under the radio in yours like it is in mine? What year is your truck? Maybe you could try the right angled rcas?


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## gsWes (Feb 15, 2014)

Mine is an 07. Im good now with the double din jvc but i tried numerous kewoods and used right angle rcas and wasnt happy with the outcome. Im gonna order the p99 in the next couple days witch should eliminate the issue. It has the outputs on a harness instead of plugged into the back. Your truck looks awesome! Im gonna run my clarus components active off of the 99. Rite now i have the mids in the doors and the tweets on the a pillar on axis with the opposite seats( passenger side tweet on axis with driver and so on). I am definately not happy with my lil ghetto tweet pods after seeing your setup! Nice work!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

sqnut said:


> That's a good start. Based on the comments there are some quick solutions that you can implement to take you up to low 70's and from there on the scores will depend on the tune and sound. You would have covered all the areas to a certain basic level i.e. you shouldn't score less than 3.5/5 or 4.5/6. Here are somethings you can look at and see if these home grown recipes work for you .
> 
> *1. Image Shifts / Wanders: *Issue is balancing L/R. Draw an imaginary line from your rear view to the top of your dash. Play the pink noise tracks and centre each track on this line. If vocals move around then look at 200-4khz range specifically. With some frequencies you will find that no matter what you do with the eq, the frequency just doesn't centre up. If it smears hard left then just add like one click of delay to the left driver playing that frequency. Vice versa if the troublesome frequency pans hard right. Once you've done the L/R balance you should have a stable image.
> When you say "the pink noise tracks", where is a good place to get these, I'm assuming some kind of test CD etc
> ...


Midbass is in the stock location of the door (very front bottom corner)
Midrange is in the A-pillar pointed straight across the dash
Tweeter is in the stock locations (corners of dash pointing straight up)

Here are the cross over points:
Tweeters - HP - 4,500hz @ 18dB
Mids - HP - 630hz @ 12dB
Mids - LP - 4,000hz @12dB
MidBass - HP - 63hz @ 18dB
Midbass - LP - 315hz @ 18db
Sub - LP - 40hz

Thanks for the advice!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

gsWes said:


> Mine is an 07. Im good now with the double din jvc but i tried numerous kewoods and used right angle rcas and wasnt happy with the outcome. Im gonna order the p99 in the next couple days witch should eliminate the issue. It has the outputs on a harness instead of plugged into the back. Your truck looks awesome! Im gonna run my clarus components active off of the 99. Rite now i have the mids in the doors and the tweets on the a pillar on axis with the opposite seats( passenger side tweet on axis with driver and so on). I am definately not happy with my lil ghetto tweet pods after seeing your setup! Nice work!


P99 was one of my options. I ended up going with the H800 - I can't remember why - but I've been very happy with it. What amps are you using? You know the P99 wont run any speakers without amps, right?


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## gsWes (Feb 15, 2014)

Yes sir, i am well aware that the 99 is a "deadhead"! One of the deciding factors actually.. I am running the arc audio ks300.4 bridged and passive on the HAT comps rite now. I have the fourchannel under the driver seat and my sub amp under the pass seat. I have done extensive treatment of the doors( extruded butyle rope,deadner, ccf and mlv) plus fabbed up some pretty beefy baffles outta wood for the 6.5. The midbass out of the clarus's is amazing! Have you done any alternator upgrades?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I haven't done anything to the alternator... yet. Not sure that I need to though.

I need to do the doors properly. It was the one part of the install that I didn't do, and the shop that did it did kind of a **** job. It's also where I think I'm having the most problems sound wise.

And in speaking of re-doing the doors, I got a new toy today....


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## gsWes (Feb 15, 2014)

Very nice circle jig! I have done 1/0 bigthree and a mechman 270 amp alt.. Little over kill but i run a power winch also. No voltage probs at all. Charges at 14.2 and with everything on that draws electricity and the stereo at full tilt it may drop to 14.1 on heavy bass tunes.. Also run a sears diehard platinum agm group 65 batt. 
Anyway! Awesome work man! You an installer bye trade or what? Howd u learn how to build boxes and work with glass like that?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Trial, error, error, error, trial.

I'm also in construction so I have a basic understanding of how to put stuff together.

I learned how to fiberglass through DIYMA and you tube. Started with small stuff like sal panels, then did some door pods in my Jetta and most recently these apillars.


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## palldat (Feb 6, 2011)

jnchantler said:


> The tune with Mike went great. He impressed the he'll out of me with his tuning abilities. There was no back and forth on it, he said change x, I changed x and that was it. I wished he lived a little closer, I'd take him out to black bear dinner every Saturday in exchange for more tuning. I didn't hear your car either, are you gonna be at the next meet?
> Your only down in Inglewood though. I'm just up in tweaker town california, so we could meet up some time.


Hahahaha, yeah just give me the heads up. I wish I had the skills like most of you guys but I like my fingers so I just know how to put things together 

I will be at the next event and at finals. I look forward to listening to your system.


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## gsWes (Feb 15, 2014)

I hear ya man.. Im a jet mechanic by trade and an everything tinkerer on the side.. Just never messed with the fiberglassing. Seems easy enough but very time consuming as well. Im still not sure where i permantly wanna place my tweets though. Kick pods dont seem like theyd work out well in our trucks. I dont think im diggen them in the a pillar either.. Well see once i actually get some decent processing.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

jnchantler said:


> Midbass is in the stock location of the door (very front bottom corner)
> Midrange is in the A-pillar pointed straight across the dash
> Tweeter is in the stock locations (corners of dash pointing straight up)
> 
> ...


You have a dome midrange the MD 142. So based on that and your driver locations try these xovers and slopes.

Sub: LP 60hz 36db slope
Midbass HP - 60hz 24db/oct
Midbass LP - 630hz 24db/oct
Mid HP - 630hz 24db/oct
Mid LP - 4khz 24db/oct
Tweet HP 4khz 24db/oct

I've basically eliminated under/overlap and kept all slopes at 4th order except on the sub. Try this along with the other suggestions. This should also help a bit with the height issues.

Can you post screen shots of the eq for each driver?


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

You can download the pink noise tracks from here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zoc2vgb4e44ys2a/Disc%201%20%28Tuning%29.rar

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mi6lx03nqpp7lxy/Disc%202%20%28Testing%20%26%20Verification%29.rar

Arun


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

sqnut said:


> Can you post screen shots of the eq for each driver?


Front Left


Front Left
20 hz	0
25 hz	0
32 hz	0
40 hz	0
50 hz	-12
63 hz	-6
80 hz	-2.5
100 hz	-6
125 hz	-3
160 hz	-2.5
200 hz	1.5
250 hz	-2
315 hz	-3
400 hz	-4
500 hz	-1.5
630 hz	-2
800 hz	-3
1000 hz	-3.5
1200 hz	-2.5
1600 hz	-3.5
2000 hz	-3.5
2500 hz	-2
3200 hz	1.5
4000 hz	-4.5
5000 hz	-4
6300 hz	1.5
8000 hz	-4
10000 hz	0
12500 hz	0
16000 hz	2
20000 hz	2

Front Right


Front Right
20 hz	0
25 hz	0
32 hz	0
40 hz	0
50 hz	-12
63 hz	-8
80 hz	-4
100 hz	-4
125 hz	-6
160 hz	-2.5
200 hz	-2.5
250 hz	-2.5
315 hz	-2.5
400 hz	-2
500 hz	-1
630 hz	-2.5
800 hz	-1
1000 hz	0.5
1200 hz	-2.5
1600 hz	-2
2000 hz	-2
2500 hz	0
3200 hz	-1.5
4000 hz	0
5000 hz	0
6300 hz	-3.5
8000 hz	-1
10000 hz	-2
12500 hz	0
16000 hz	-3
20000 hz	2


Subwoofer


Subwoofer
20 hz	0.5
25 hz	1
32 hz	2.5
40 hz	-1
50 hz	-5
63 hz	-2
80 hz	-1
100 hz	-3
125 hz	-3
160 hz	-3


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Are you using a passive xover for your components? The eq seems combined for all drivers on one side, as opposed to a separate eq for each driver. 

Did you manage to download the PN tracks and get a chance at balancing L/R?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

sqnut said:


> Are you using a passive xover for your components? The eq seems combined for all drivers on one side, as opposed to a separate eq for each driver.
> 
> Did you manage to download the PN tracks and get a chance at balancing L/R?


No, no passive cross overs. Everything is active. The H800 groups left and right, haven't taken the time to figure or if I can ungroup them.

I have not had a chance to download the tracks and probably won't till the weekend.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

It will probably be something related to how you setup the drivers in H800. Ideally you should get a separate eq for each driver. Would be mentioned in the install manual somewhere. 

Do the L/R balance whenever you get the time. Then we get into overall response.


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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

jnchantler said:


> No, no passive cross overs. Everything is active. The H800 groups left and right, haven't taken the time to figure or if I can ungroup them.
> 
> I have not had a chance to download the tracks and probably won't till the weekend.



If you had the RUX, you just hold the channel button while in the EQ adjustment folder. 

I haven't a clue via the PC.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

sqnut said:


> It will probably be something related to how you setup the drivers in H800. Ideally you should get a separate eq for each driver. Would be mentioned in the install manual somewhere.



H800 does not give you separate eq for each driver. It is somewhat similar to P99, except you get a little more by having separate l/r eq for front, sub, rear and have a choice between graphic and parametric.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

jnchantler said:


> The H800 groups left and right, haven't taken the time to figure or if I can ungroup them.


You definitely can (and likely should) ungroup them. I get what sqnut is getting at with separate eq per driver, but at a minimum, you should be looking to eq l/r separately unless you have a center seat car. 

DRTHJTA is correct for the RUX. Using the PC software, it is under the EQ Setup tab. Click the little chain link on the left of the screen to ungroup the L/R EQ.

EDIT: Screenshots you posted on post #88 shows that your EQ is ungrouped and separate for L/R...


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

papasin said:


> H800 does not give you separate eq for each driver. It is somewhat similar to P99, except you get a little more by having separate l/r eq for front, sub, rear and have a choice between graphic and parametric.


 wow!! I didn't know that. I would expect a top end processor like that to have an independent eq per driver. That's kind of a given for all processors. IMHO the two big benefits of an independent eq are one it helps in acoustic shaping of response around the xover points, and second it offers the ability to max out cuts beyond ~1 octave of the drivers pass-band. Makes the sound cleaner.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

sqnut said:


> wow!! I didn't know that. I would expect a top end processor like that to have an independent eq per driver. That's kind of a given for all processors. IMHO the two big benefits of an independent eq are one it helps in acoustic shaping of response around the xover points, and second it offers the ability to max out cuts beyond ~1 octave of the drivers pass-band. Makes the sound cleaner.


Yes and no. Pioneer P99, P9, and ODR don't have independent eq per driver either to my knowledge, and there have been people who have won world championships with those setups (EDIT: compared to people who have processors with independent eq per driver).


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

It would take a lot more than the lack of driver independent eq to make me get rid of this H800 .


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

jnchantler said:


> It would take a lot more than the lack of driver independent eq to make me get rid of this H800 .


At the recent MECA comp in SoCal (Huntington Beach), the SQ best of show was running an H800, and for that matter, the top 4 cars were using an H800, a P99, an ODR, and an H800 respectively...so I think you'll be ok. 

I do get what sqnut is getting at and the advantages of independent eq per driver...but until some of the other "more advanced" processors come out with a controller where I can tweak the processor without powering a laptop, my personal preference is still going to be the H800 which is the only one that I know of that gives you the best of both worlds (full control via laptop and controller).


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

papasin said:


> Yes and no. Pioneer P99, P9, and ODR don't have independent eq per driver either to my knowledge, and there have been people who have won world championships with those setups


P9 and ODR were from an era when they were the best there was. Someone has won the MECA championship with only the p-99? 



papasin said:


> (EDIT: compared to people who have processors with independent eq per driver).


Just goes to show that not many folks know it real value That said, I've tuned a p99 on more tha one occasion and it is simply the sexiest audio device around. So yeah the h800, p99 p9 etc are more than enough..............unless you're a glutton for punishment



jnchantler said:


> It would take a lot more than the lack of driver independent eq to make me get rid of this H800 .


Don't worry not asking you to.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

sqnut said:


> P9 and ODR were from an era when they were the best there was. Someone has won the MECA championship with only the p-99?


Steve Cook had the highest SQ score at MECA Worlds last year with an ODR, and this is compared to a couple top tier guys with even much more sophisticated non-car processors such as DriveRacks, etc.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

papasin said:


> Steve Cook had the highest SQ score at MECA Worlds last year with an ODR, and this is compared to a couple top tier guys with even much more sophisticated non-car processors such as DriveRacks, etc.


Just goes to show that Steve Cook is a way better tuner than those with more complex processors. But yeah I am splitting hairs a bit.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

sqnut said:


> Just goes to show that Steve Cook is a way better tuner than those with more complex processors. But yeah I am splitting hairs a bit.


I'm not sure I would say that...seeing that Mark Eldridge was in the mix who I believe was running the DriveRack. 

Make no mistake though, they both won their classes respectively...but with the same three SQ judges for the entire event, Steve had the top score of the championship and earned him the Culbertson cup...with a measly HU/processor that doesn't do independent EQ per driver.  

EDIT: Sorry for the derail OP. sqnut though knows what he's talking about.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

papasin said:


> I'm not sure I would say that...seeing that Mark Eldridge was in the mix who I believe was running the DriveRack.
> 
> Make no mistake though, they both won their classes respectively...but with the same three SQ judges for the entire event, Steve had the top score of the championship and earned him the Culbertson cup...with a measly HU/processor that doesn't do independent EQ per driver.
> 
> EDIT: Sorry for the derail OP. sqnut though knows what he's talking about.


The thing with guys like Steve Cook, Mark Eldridge, Matt Roberts, KP is that they are great tuners first and foremost. They are in a different league. Why? Because without exception they spend a lot more time tuning by ear than with the RTA. You have to move beyond the RTA to get to that level. It's about what you're hearing, it's a bit beyond what you're measuring.

So you could have a situation where Cook was competing with dsp he is comfortable and intuitive with while Mark was using something new that he is getting used to and hence not intuitive with. At that level these things make a big difference. 

Take the top 5-6 guys and give them the same car/install/equipment and then let them compete. That would be a good way to judge who is the best tuner. But the trophy is about the best sounding car and not the best tuner (and perhaps that's the way it should be). 

BTW thanks for the vote of confidence.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Mark has been using the drive rack for years. Using your ears drives the scientists crazy. Better stop saying that sqnut. Lmao


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

BigRed said:


> Mark has been using the drive rack for years. Using your ears drives the scientists crazy. Better stop saying that sqnut. Lmao


In that case can I say that the top 10 guys aren't scientists?

But seriously, it's not rocket science. We tend to over complicate the hobby. Once you have trained your ears to tell better or worse and you are intuitive with what you're hearing and the 31 bands on your your eq, tuning by ear is both logical and intuitive. An RTA is good for getting the basics in place, that's about it.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice so far guys.

Okay guys - need to come up with some cash to upgrade the midranges. Settled on the Esotar 430's, need something that will play lower than the 560 or so I have the domes at, but don't want to stray from DynAudio. Check out my "for sale" thread, the Audisons are a nice a/b amp for mids & highs, the Steg is a monster 2 channel and makes a great sub amp.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-ms8-steg-02-02-amp-2x-audison-sr-4-amps.html

Waiting for my final invoice from Don at Sound Deadener Showdown so I can get the MLV, CCF & tiles ordered to do the front doors properly.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

jnchantler said:


> You ever go to First Awakenings? Or Flahretys? Probably a couple of my favorite restaurants.
> 
> I like First Awakenings a lot. I live across the street from one of the owners and my company is actually doing some work there at the restaurant right now.
> 
> I got 15 mpg once in my 250. Driving to Vegas & back with 3 other guys, 400lbs of ammo and a few ar's. I also got 6 towing through town. A few months later I got 51 on the same trip in my Jetta.


Yeah people complain about the gas mileage and bring it up when comparing vehicles but we don't buy these truck for the mileage


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Your right Golden Ear, we buy these trucks to see the look on the kid's face driving the Civic, as you leave him in a pile of smoke, meanwhile his fartcan is glowing red as his engine is bouncing of the rev limiter and he's almost doing 25 in first gear with his 45 degree camber and used tires off his mum's Camry.

(no offense Papasin, I respect the Si)

Edit: Or maybe we buy them to tow, I don't remember...


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

I think it's the former:laugh::laugh:


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

This is just for fun. Something for you to try out. Ideally I would do this after you have done L/R and after you post the measured response. But YOLO right? ( I really hate that phrase). Anyway, save your current settings as A and then use the xover / slopes I suggested and then try these settings. Save these as B and once you have dialed it in go back and forth between A & B and let's hear your opinion on what's better / worse. Sounds do-able?



jnchantler said:


> Front Left
> 
> 
> Front Left
> ...


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Again we really need to see L/R response curves to balance that. But these settings are just to give you and idea of a different sound and for you to pick what sounds better or worse.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Alright well I tried what you said sqnut and a/b'd it with my previous tune.

Tonality wise it was warmer, little less high end detail, obviously more midbass and midrange, and it threw my vocalist ion the left a pillar. I'll have to spend some more time playing with it. Maybe it will work out, maybe not.

Just a couple,of notes on the original tune... 50hz was at minus 12dB as the midbass in the right door was bottoming out otherwise when played fairly loud, but not ridiculously loud. The gap between the midbass low pass and the midrange high pass was to help reduce the resonance present in the 2-400 range, the midrange was set to 560 as that is about as low as it will go.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I never got a response from sound deadener showdown so I ordered from second skin. I should get it here in time to address some of the resonance before the next comp in Torrance.

I've been having problems with the sub frequencies being locatable as the sub literally vibrates the drivers chair (it's not directly touching it though). Any recommendations for this? Maybe in the future I'd look at putting a 10 in the passenger footwell, which was the original plan with the SI but it won't fit due to the diameter, depth isn't too much of an issue. My only concern is that I would be down-grading from the SI, but maybe not. I haven't heard any good quality 10's, maybe someone will have one I can demo at the next gtg.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

jnchantler said:


> I never got a response from sound deadener showdown so I ordered from second skin. I should get it here in time to address some of the resonance before the next comp in Torrance.
> 
> I've been having problems with the sub frequencies being locatable as the sub literally vibrates the drivers chair (it's not directly touching it though). Any recommendations for this? Maybe in the future I'd look at putting a 10 in the passenger footwell, which was the original plan with the SI but it won't fit due to the diameter, depth isn't too much of an issue. My only concern is that I would be down-grading from the SI, but maybe not. I haven't heard any good quality 10's, maybe someone will have one I can demo at the next gtg.



Jim (BigRed) uses a single 10 in his passenger footwell. His result from the SiS comp we were at should be a good indication for you on what is possible.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Give a couple of days for the new tune to settle in on your ears. If you divide the sound into low / mid / highs, you are looking for good balance across the three ranges. Nothing should stand out yet nothing should be lacking. If you have a 2ch at home play the same track on the 2ch and in the car. You'll have to go back and forth a couple of times to get a feel of this. 

The imaging is down to the L/R balance with the PN tracks. Use the PN tracks to identify resonance issues. Identify frequencies where it occurs and then try to isolate / dampen the area resonating. Don't under-lap to cure it. Here are some tips if you want to tweak further:

- I rolled off the 1.6-4khz range from your earlier tune. This will reduce the overall bite in the sound. Typically this range needs to be rolled off a bit in the car. Reflections in this range make the range sound hotter, so you need a little tempering here. Since I'm not sitting in your car and tuning, you're the best judge on the balance. Try raising 1.6/2.0 by like 0.5db and see if that sounds better.

- I also rolled off the 10-20khz range for a touch more warmth. If you raise the midrange then try raising here a bit (again +0.5db).

- I cut 80/125/160/200 a bit from your earlier settings. This is to take out the extra flab and bloat from your low end and hopefully make it tighter.

- If you feel that vocals are submerged in the mix and not clear then raise 600 & 800 by 0.5db. 1 khz is great for dynamics. However too much boost in the 600-1khz will make the sound tinny / hollow / like a cheap radio kind of sound. Not enough and the sound and vocals will be dull. Move in small steps.

The single biggest thing you should focus on is getting the L/R balanced. That will solve most of your your imaging issues.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

jnchantler said:


> I've been having problems with the sub frequencies being locatable as the sub literally vibrates the drivers chair (it's not directly touching it though). Any recommendations for this? Maybe in the future I'd look at putting a 10 in the passenger footwell, which was the original plan with the SI but it won't fit due to the diameter, depth isn't too much of an issue. My only concern is that I would be down-grading from the SI, but maybe not. I haven't heard any good quality 10's, maybe someone will have one I can demo at the next gtg.


Use the PN tracks to identify the frequency at which it is happening and then maybe tighten the passenger seat a bit. If it's resonating, it's probably a touch loose. Treat the cause not the symptoms. The frequency that is causing the resonance will cause it no matter where you place the sub. 

Other than this, if you feel like the sub is localizing by pulling back, you may need to work on the sub to mid TA. Start with entering measured distances to each driver. Lot's of ways to do this and one way that worked for me at the start was to measure left side drivers to left ear and vice-versa. 

Measure the sub from the tip of your nose. It's best if you sit and someone else does the measuring. This will basically get you in the ball park. Now if you play the mid and sub all the low end should be from the mid bass. Now try the Plying with delay in one step increments to find that sweet spot where you have clarity and low end.

You can use the PN tracks for many things and you will do yourself a big favour by starting to use them.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I did a little testing today on the resonance issues. I played around with different frequencies to determine the worst resonance and where it was coming from. I found that 90hz resonated the worst and it lessened when I pushed on the outer skin of the door, this seemed logical to me so I pulled the doors apart.

The shop that installed the midbass drivers just covered over the holes with dynomat which I strongly disagree with as a practice. I started by cutting back the existing dynomat to access the outer skin then applied dynomat, at about 50% coverage! to the outer skin of the door.


















I covered over the large holes in the door with 1/4" MDF and then more dynomat.


















This evening I'll start the baffles for the midbass drivers.

My order of ccf & mlv should be here this week, hopefully with enough time to install before the gtg on Saturday.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Agree with how you're tackling the resonance. Did you manage to use the PN to balance L/R? How's the tweaking going?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I did a little yesterday. I think I got it a little straighter on the soundstage, ended up with the female vocalist quite far left but looked in to it and found I had cut 800 hz like 8dB on that side, brought that back up and I think its pretty good. I'm post the new graphs too.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I got the baffles pretty much done for the front doors today. The baffles are essentially 3 pieces of 3/4 MDF, I made the top piece easily removable so that I can try out other drivers too. (I'm always up for trying new equipment).

I started by drilling out the factory screw holes and installing rivet nuts, this made it easy to trace the holes on to the MDF from the original plastic baffle.









I then cut out the 3 plates and test fit them together with double sided tape and tested putting the door panel on, there's only about 1/4 clearance around the baffle from the door panel


























For the hell of it I put the 8" PHD midbass drivers in the doors to test them out.
















I haven't had much seat time with these PHDs but from the start I can cross them over much lower and they seem to be doing okay being low passed at 560 to meet the domes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

That looks good and a solid install. It will help with controlling vibrations etc. Looks neat too. Did you get to work any with the TA or the L/R? How was the app?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I've had a couple more attempts with the t/a after using your suggested crossovers. I had to even out the cuts in your suggested eq a little to get the image centered. I think I have it pretty good but I need to give my ears a break. Tomorrow I will go at both my last tune, and what I am going to call the SQNUT tune using the l/r balancing with the PN.

One issue I have is the lack of a reference system. The closest I have is a friend who mixes/masters movie trailer music, I built a home theater for him last year and we bounce ideas off each other sometimes in regards to music and sound. He has a pair of barefoot 27s in his studio (if you haven't seen them, check them out - there's not much like 4 10 drivers 4ft from your face!), it's not that often I find the time to get down to his studio.

Ah yes, I forgot to download the app. Heading to the App Store now.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Download the RTA app for your phone and then download the harmon app for your desktop. A reference system is very important because you must have a reference sound that you're tuning towards. 

Pick 2-3 songs on the meca disk and download flac files on your phone. If you have a nice set of headphones you can use the flac files from your phone as a tonal reference point. Go back and forth between the song on your headsets and in the car.

lol on the sqnut tune. It's not a tune yet, just a very rough house curve 

[edit] just saw the barefoot monitors and yes they would be a great ref source ;-)


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## gsWes (Feb 15, 2014)

i did pretty much the same thing with my baffles, but instead of rings i just made them the same shape as the stock plastic speaker pod. is it necessary to permanently block the holes in the doors if i just did a layer of mlv over the whole inner skin? thats odd don from SDS didn't get back to ya!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

gsWes said:


> i did pretty much the same thing with my baffles, but instead of rings i just made them the same shape as the stock plastic speaker pod. is it necessary to permanently block the holes in the doors if i just did a layer of mlv over the whole inner skin? thats odd don from SDS didn't get back to ya!


I feel its necessary, I know some people disagree from an engineering stand point as you are closing off the hole with material....

But, I work in construction (repairing foundations specifically) and we have a saying: "Engineers are some of the dumbest smart people you'll ever meet".

My theory (and please take note this is a personal opinion) is that any material vibrating will reproduce sound, as we all know sound is just vibrations created in the air, so if you have a material moving its going to create vibrations. I don't see how the material itself matters in this case. Using Dynomat over an open hole, unless a very small hole, would allow sound to be recreated by the Dynomat because it's not strong enough not to reverberate.

Anyways, I could be full of sh1t but that's my opinion.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Oh, and just a note on the above, where I was lacking midbass before I did the above, I'm now working on cutting midbass out as its over powering.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

The difference between hearing and listening lies in what we're thinking about while hearing the sound. With listening, you have a blank mind and are totally focused on the sound. One needs to train the mind to stay blank when listening. It's tough to do for more than 20-25 mts at a stretch. It's one of the reasons you shouldn't tune for more than 20-30 mts at a go. 

The human vocal range covers ~100hz for the low end on a male bassist to 16 khz for the over blow and breath of a female soprano. For a start, focus on getting the vocals accurate and 95% of the rest will fall into place. Just hone in on the vocals and don't worry about the rest of the mix for a while. One needs to engrave the reference sound in the head by listening over and over on whatever your ref setup is. Imprint that sound in your mind. Then hear how it sounds in the car. 

Accuracy is all about balance. Balance between the lows, mids and highs. The mid-range is the most important part of sound. If you take the mids as ~400-3khz, then 500-1 khz is for clarity and dynamics and 1.25-3khz is the bite in the mid-range. You need both in just the right balance. Response wise the 500-1 khz will be a bumpy ride but overall ~2 db's higher than say 1.6 which in turn would be about 2 db higher than 4khz. Tweak that kind of curve based on what one is hearing. 

If the vocals are pinched, open up a bit in the 1.2-2khz range. _Pinched could also mean that one has got L/R wrong somewhere._ 500-800 is great for clarity in vocals. Too little here and the vocals will sound dull and merged into the mix. Too much and one will have a horn like honky-tonk sound. 1 khz is great for dynamics. It can bring the mid bass alive and give it the snap. Too much and the sound will thin out. If you feel you need to raise something in your mid-range 3-4 khz is the absolute last place to look. 3-4khz make the sound grainy. If the entire mid-range is hot, one will lose all semblance of mid-bass due to masking. 

Highs, 5-20khz. This range is rich in higher order harmonics. This is the range that opens out the vocals and makes them sound real and lifelike. In terms of response, there is normally a big step up (3-4db) from 4khz to 5khz. On an eq 5khz would typically be in the 0 to -1 range kind of thing. If one uses the RTA app on their phone, there will typically be a peak around 6-8khz. Typically 8 khz is cut a lot. If 8 is not cut enough, one will struggle to get required clarity and bite in the vocals. 

Most tweeters start rolling off above about 12-14 khz. I like to keep 12khz and above close to 0 on the eq with only a touch of eq for L/R balance. Sedtting the weaker side to 0 and then cutting the hotter side works good. Keep in mind tweeter angling and positioning will also come in play here. When this range is right, everything below sounds more natural, open and lifelike.

Mid Bass, 70-300 hz. The biggest thing while setting the mid bass is to prevent a fat bloated sound. 80, 160, 200-250 are common culprits. 100hz on the other hand is great for mid-bass energy. 80, 200-250 cause bloat cut here for sure. 160 is a dicey frequency. A touch more and the sound is too fat, a touch less and it's paper thin. I remember Macleod drilling that in my head. L/R balancing is important down to about 70hz. When mixing engineers want to give vocal a little more power and fullness they boost a bit at 315hz. Use 315 similarly. If you've tried everything and vocal are great but still have that tinge of reedy stretched sound, try raising 315. 

[edited for better clarity and some stuff I had missed out on]


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Wow, that was a lot of good information SQNUT, I'm going to have to play around with that. I've had some kind of virus since the last meet and my left ear has been full of crap so my hearing is a little whack or I would have done more on the tuning. It seems to be clearing up now, hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to hear again.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

jnchantler said:


> Wow, that was a lot of good information SQNUT, I'm going to have to play around with that. I've had some kind of virus since the last meet and my left ear has been full of crap so my hearing is a little whack or I would have done more on the tuning. It seems to be clearing up now, hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to hear again.


Hey, hope you get better soon. Are you still attending the GTG?


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

Sqnut, I have never had that information interpreted like that. I have been looking for this type of understanding of the EQ process. I may just use this in adjusting my EQ. 

JnChantler, you have an awesome looking build here. With some advisement from SQNUT I believe you will have success at the shows.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

sqnut said:


> Hey, hope you get better soon. Are you still attending the GTG?


Yes, I'm hoping to make the event - as long as this virus clears up in time.

I'm also trying to convince a friend of mine, who's truck i built a couple of years ago, to come and possibly enter.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Black Rain said:


> Sqnut, I have never had that information interpreted like that. I have been looking for this type of understanding of the EQ process. I may just use this in adjusting my EQ.


Glad if it is of help. In general there is very little on using an eq based on what you're hearing. I'm sure there will be more as the thread moves along.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Here's the results from today. The main change from the last meet was the new PHD midbass in the doors, the new baffles, closing the holes and the sound deadening. Its almost 5pts higher than last time.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Good job! :thumbsup: 

Did you do any tuning or was it basically the same tune as last time? Shouty mid range means something in the 500-1khz range is too hot. Sub pulling to the back means some TA issues between sub and mids and some smoothening required in the 50-200 zone. 

Did you get a chance to hear Gary's Mercedes? Wondering how that interaction went


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

sqnut said:


> Good job! :thumbsup:
> 
> Did you do any tuning or was it basically the same tune as last time? Shouty mid range means something in the 500-1khz range is too hot. Sub pulling to the back means some TA issues between sub and mids and some smoothening required in the 50-200 zone.
> 
> Did you get a chance to hear Gary's Mercedes? Wondering how that interaction went


I did do some tuning yes. Right after the comp ended Mike (who was also the judge) helped me a little, I think he handled the "shouty" midrange, we did quite af few cuts in the 200-1200 range and dropped the low pass on the midbass back down to 220 or so. Jim (bigred) have me a hand with the time alignment of the sub.

Yes, I did get to hear Garys Mercedes. I had mixed feelings about it but I thought the implementation of 5.1 was both visually and audibly impressive.


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## palldat (Feb 6, 2011)

I really look forward to hearing the changes and see your install doing very well. The sound is very good. We all have room for improvement. You dont have far to go.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

jnchantler said:


> I did do some tuning yes. Right after the comp ended Mike (who was also the judge) helped me a little, I think he handled the "shouty" midrange, we did quite af few cuts in the 200-1200 range and dropped the low pass on the midbass back down to 220 or so. Jim (bigred) have me a hand with the time alignment of the sub.
> 
> Yes, I did get to hear Garys Mercedes. I had mixed feelings about it but I thought the implementation of 5.1 was both visually and audibly impressive.


did the alignment seem to be an improvement? sometimes that trick doesn't always work.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

BigRed said:


> did the alignment seem to be an improvement? sometimes that trick doesn't always work.


Yes, I a/bd it last night and again this morning it definitely sounded better. Seriously considering a ten in the footwell after hearing yours though....


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

jnchantler said:


> Yes, I a/bd it last night and again this morning it definitely sounded better. Seriously considering a ten in the footwell after hearing yours though....


if you can get rid of the tactical cues it would help, or just put a damn 10 up front


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Anyone wanna trade a BM MKIV for a nice 10? Haha. I was thinking I could also re-do the box and face it down...


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Looks like good times were had by everyone......everyones smiling!! 



jnchantler said:


> I did do some tuning yes. Right after the comp ended Mike (who was also the judge) helped me a little, I think he handled the "shouty" midrange, we did quite af few cuts in the 200-1200 range and dropped the low pass on the midbass back down to 220 or so. Jim (bigred) have me a hand with the time alignment of the sub.


I was just comparing the score sheets and you did much better in lower mid range and mid range and nearly doubled your score for dynamics. So working the 500-1khz range worked. But its easy to get carried away and set it a touch hotter making giving it a touch of that horn like sound and then masking it with a raise at 200-300 or lower and you have shouty vocals. I'm glad you sorted this out.

One area that interests me is Linearity. Let's say you normally tune at 85 db, now when you turn the volume up to 100db the stage shouldn't bloat up, the imaging shouldn't start to smear and the tonality should not start to fall apart. The best way to achieve this is to strive for perfect balance at your normal tuning level of 85. Balance is when you have all the ranges in the right balance and nothing really stands out. If the balance is out in any which way even if marginal, its going to stick out when you turn the volume up. So from time to time it's good to turn the volume just just to make sure the balance is right. 




jnchantler said:


> Yes, I did get to hear Garys Mercedes. I had mixed feelings about it but I thought the implementation of 5.1 was both visually and audibly impressive.


Now that is really interesting. It's supposed to primarily be a 2ch car. Hmm....


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

One of the main issues I'm having is localization of the sub. Being that it is right behind me and firing up audio the seat, it's not surprising. I did some really good playing around with the sub this evening. I took the sub out of the box and removed the polyfill. Then I put the sub back in and just for fun, pressed down lightly on the cone. I could tell there was back pressure but I could also hear air wooshing out from around the sub, I took it back out and cut back the uneven carpet so the rubber gasket of the subwoofer is pressed right up against the mdf. I put it back together and made sure the screws were tightened down into the t-nuts good. I put the sub back in is same location, in the center rear passenger foot space, tested it out a little and it sounded better, tighter I guess I would say. I then moved the box to the front passenger footwell. The box is about 3 feet long so half the box is on the seat and the woofer is aimed up in to the dash at about 30 degrees. Played around with crossover slopes, set it to 36hz @ 6dB and turned the gain up about 6dB. It sounds fcuking great, no additional resonance, which I tested for by turning the mid bass off and passing the bass resonance track on the MECA disk, no localization and even with the mid bass turned off, the sub is right up on the window.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Ding ding ding


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

This is your fault Jim! 

I think I mentioned this before, but does anyone want to trade for a good quality 10? Or have any good recommendations? My budget is pretty much maxed at this point as I have daughter#2 arriving in about 6 weeks, but I have some good equipment for trades...


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Yeah a sub behind or under the seat will give a lot of tactile cues, so localization will always be an issue. The passenger foot-well is a great place for a small sealed box.


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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

I don't have one, but if you can get your hands on a Dayton HO... Mine in a stupid small box. Two of them share a 0.55ft^3 box...


Beware of autocorrect...


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Nevermind on the 10in sub. I'm jammin this bi#ch in there!





























I'm off to home depot to get some wood. Did a cut list and I can do it all with a 1/4 sheet of mdf, which I think is about $12.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Looks like I'll be at just over half a cube too. Minus woofer displacement and I think I'm in business.


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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

Jam away!! Look forward to hearing the progress!


Beware of autocorrect...


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Nice! I'm looking forward to hearing it too


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

Those SI's perform brilliantly but I think you should try using atleast 1/2" mdf or maybe 5/8 birch. Otherwise it looks good.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Black Rain said:


> Those SI's perform brilliantly but I think you should try using atleast 1/2" mdf or maybe 5/8 birch. Otherwise it looks good.


Lol. But I've have good results with card board, I double it up where needed and then take an old paper towel roll and throw it in for the port.


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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

Black Rain said:


> Those SI's perform brilliantly but I think you should try using atleast 1/2" mdf or maybe 5/8 birch. Otherwise it looks good.



Pretty sure he wasn't saying 1/4" MDF. That would be insane...


Beware of autocorrect...


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

DRTHJTA said:


> Pretty sure he wasn't saying 1/4" MDF. That would be insane...
> 
> 
> Beware of autocorrect...


Oh, haha. I thought he was referring to the cardboard mock ups. Now I see he thought I meant quarter inch MDF. No I meant 1/4 of a sheet of 3/4" MDF. The normal sheets are 4ft by 8ft, but Home Depot also sells a 2ft by 4ft sheet which is much cheaper.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

And easier to carry around 

Or fit in the back of a Kia rio


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Or fit in the back of a truck, that really shouldn't be called a truck because my wife's rav4 has more space with the seats down than the bed of this ***** wagon.


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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

jnchantler said:


> Or fit in the back of a truck, that really shouldn't be called a truck because my wife's rav4 has more space with the seats down than the bed of this ***** wagon.



Watch how you talk about wagons! 

I can't fit anything bigger than a quarter sheet either... 


Beware of autocorrect...


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

DRTHJTA said:


> Watch how you talk about wagons!
> 
> I can't fit anything bigger than a quarter sheet either...
> 
> ...


If I could go back to any previous car, it would be my Jetta sport wagon (6sp tdi), in a heart beat.


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

Ok, I did think you were referring to 1/4" thick sheet. Thanks for clearing that up. Go forward and build im sure your plans will come out right.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

REGULARCAB said:


> And easier to carry around
> 
> Or fit in the back of a Kia rio


You can get a 1/3 sheet in of you fold the seat down. I usually have them cut a full sheet in to 3 pieces 32ishx49. lol

He does have a truck, so he could probably get at least a half sheet! haha

Jay


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

jnchantler said:


> If I could go back to any previous car, it would be my Jetta sport wagon (6sp tdi), in a heart beat.


Was that a stick shift? VW are great!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

sqnut said:


> Was that a stick shift? VW are great!


Yup, stick shift.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

jnchantler said:


> Yup, stick shift.


Driving an automatic never felt right . Something about this thread makes me want to vent on tuning ......


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

jnchantler said:


> Nevermind on the 10in sub. I'm jammin this bi#ch in there!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice enclosure mock up and great to see that it will fit up there. Seeing how tiny of an enclosure you actually need for the BM mkIV 's still surprises me to this day. Yes we all know the size of the enclosure but when you build the box you think "there's no way the woofer is going to fit in there" but then the woofer goes in without any isses. My next thoughts are still "low end out of a box this size...yeah right" only to be super suprised when I start playing them. Hearing others reviews is one thing but hearing it for yourself makes you a believer in the woofer.

PS: That's ample room for cone movement too.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Electrodynamic said:


> Nice enclosure mock up and great to see that it will fit up there. Seeing how tiny of an enclosure you actually need for the BM mkIV 's still surprises me to this day. Yes we all know the size of the enclosure but when you build the box you think "there's no way the woofer is going to fit in there" but then the woofer goes in without any isses. My next thoughts are still "low end out of a box this size...yeah right" only to be super suprised when I start playing them. Hearing others reviews is one thing but hearing it for yourself makes you a believer in the woofer.
> 
> PS: That's ample room for cone movement too.


I feel privileged to have you post on my thread. I should score much better in the next comp with it being up front. I'll post up the results. I'm really glad I was able to make this work as this was my original intention when buying this sub, I just didn't think of firing it right up info the dash when test fitting. So thanks Nick, I've been very impressed so far.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

I love the idea of having the whole box up under the dash like that. An up front sub may be my next "I'm bored" project.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

REGULARCAB said:


> I love the idea of having the whole box up under the dash like that. An up front sub may be my next "I'm bored" project.


What vehicle do you have?


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

I drive a 2013 Kia Rio. There is a gigantic glove box, I'm just not quiet ready to take that plunge.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I thought about that, too. I feel like I could cut out enough space out of my glovebox, leave enough room to keep important papers and stuff in what is left..and make a box big enough to get a decent 10 up there. I have the same (2012 not 2013) car.

Jay


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

It began this morning...

















Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Pretty much got all the woodwork done. Now I just need to sand it, run the wires and carpet it.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

jnchantler said:


> Pretty much got all the woodwork done. Now I just need to sand it, run the wires and carpet it.


Nice work so far.  

What is the internal volume on the enclosure?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Electrodynamic said:


> Nice work so far.
> 
> What is the internal volume on the enclosure?


It's a fairly difficult shape to measure, but from what I can tell it's about .4 minus driver displacement. So technically a little small. I may stuff some polyfill in it, but sound-its great. There were too many variables to put the improvement in sound down to only the box but it didn't seem to hurt the low end extension. I may have had to increase the level of the sub though, which is logical if it is in a smaller enclosure.

Nick, you could send me a driver (I still have the other box which I could put in), that way I could A/B it and give you a better idea


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

New toys arrived today. Hello extreme class.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I took the dome mids out and routed the opening to fit the 152s, made some rings and played with angles.





























The last picture shows the angle they well be at, I'm going to belt sand about 1/2 inch off the rings that are already molded in so I can place a new 1/2 ring, with the half ring on the back side to create the angle.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

jnchantler said:


> It's a fairly difficult shape to measure, but from what I can tell it's about .4 minus driver displacement. So technically a little small. I may stuff some polyfill in it, but sound-its great. There were too many variables to put the improvement in sound down to only the box but it didn't seem to hurt the low end extension. I may have had to increase the level of the sub though, which is logical if it is in a smaller enclosure.
> 
> Nick, you could send me a driver (I still have the other box which I could put in), that way I could A/B it and give you a better idea


Oh ok, so you _have_ listened to the woofer? Good. Any further thoughts on the performance now that you've had some time to listen to it?


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

big mids! a very good change me thinks, for crossover reasons mostly which will make an insanely huge difference.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Electrodynamic said:


> Oh ok, so you _have_ listened to the woofer? Good. Any further thoughts on the performance now that you've had some time to listen to it?


I've been very happy with it, especially coming from a shallow Kenwood excelon 12, and seperately 2x shallow kenwood excelon 10's. I apparently had issues with low-end extension which I think I've resolved, I actually have the sub low-passed at 36hz right now with a 12dB slope and the mid bass are picking up from [email protected] Even with turning the mid-bass off for a short while and just playing mids & tweets for fun (460hz &up) the standup bassist was still dead center and behind the window.

So in short, I've been very impressed with its ability to blend and output too. I am not an expert opinion on this though as I've only been doing this a short while, lycancatt may have some input, he has heard it 3 times now, and tuned it twice. 

I'm still curious where it's limits are.... I haven't bottomed it out yet.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

jnchantler said:


> I'm still curious where it's limits are.... I haven't bottomed it out yet.


want me to find them? seriously doubt its possible with a comp tune, but with a daily tune..heh heh..I think I scared jim once, but sometimes the driving force behind the music..bass..just has to be forward and huge.

I'm looking forward to hearing it at state finals, you've jumped classes into one with some really great folks and the cool part is, they are all welcoming, so enjoy the ride and keep updating this thread.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Lycancatt said:


> want me to find them?


Haha, not really. But I think I could fit one of my (3) old type R's in this box if you want to blow one or two of those up.



Lycancatt said:


> I'm looking forward to hearing it at state finals, you've jumped classes into one with some really great folks and the cool part is, they are all welcoming, so enjoy the ride and keep updating this thread


I'm working on it... between a full time job, a 4 year old a wife who's 34 weeks along its difficult.... You may see some rough finishes on the fabricated parts at finals but I'll make sure they at least have pleasant tactility.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

So just curious which class you are planning to compete in for MECA CA State Finals? Just beforewarned that to be eligible to be MECA State Champion for a particular class, you need to accumulate at least a total of 20 points in the class you are competing at State Finals and win at State. So basically, you will need to have had at least 5 points prior from a particular class prior to state to be eligible for the championship since state finals is worth only 15 points even with a first place win.

Just food for thought. Not trying to keep you out of either class...can't say I have no skin in the game, but either class we have cars...so as Lycancatt mentioned indeed welcome to join where you want.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

haha no I don't blow subs up for fun..just..i'm a harder listener than a lot of you because I'm so used to multi 18 sub setups in pro audio. I think that's why I enjoy judging, because its getting back to music in its purist form, but I still like the boom some times.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

papasin said:


> So just curious which class you are planning to compete in for MECA CA State Finals? Just beforewarned that to be eligible to be MECA State Champion for a particular class, you need to accumulate at least a total of 20 points in the class you are competing at State Finals and win at State. So basically, you will need to have had at least 5 points prior from a particular class prior to state to be eligible for the championship since state finals is worth only 15 points even with a first place win.
> 
> Just food for thought. Not trying to keep you out of either class...can't say I have no skin in the game, but either class we have cars...so as Lycancatt mentioned indeed welcome to join where you want.


Thanks for the note Richard. I actually had no idea about this. I'm not trying to be put in any particular class, if they'll allow me to compete in modified, as I have been I'd be happy. However, with 5.75s in the pillars and the 12 in the footwell I think I'm getting bumped to extreme, correct me if I am wrong here.

This is my first year doing a serious sq build, I'm not expecting to drive home with a state championship trophy, but I'm certainly going to do what I can to try.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Lycancatt said:


> haha no I don't blow subs up for fun..


I'm not convinced you don't get some small amount of excitement when you smell the melting voice coil.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

well as I'm mostly paying for my own gear now as opposed to working with an insured llc company where if it died we just got a new one..things have changed.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

jnchantler said:


> Thanks for the note Richard. I actually had no idea about this. I'm not trying to be put in any particular class, if they'll allow me to compete in modified, as I have been I'd be happy. However, with 5.75s in the pillars and the 12 in the footwell I think I'm getting bumped to extreme, correct me if I am wrong here.
> 
> 
> 
> This is my first year doing a serious sq build, I'm not expecting to drive home with a state championship trophy, but I'm certainly going to do what I can to try.



Up front sub is allowed in modified class or higher per the MECA rule book. 4" is largest driver allowed in pillars or pods in modified and has to conform to the 4.5" rule.

Based on the 2014 MECA rule book, you would likely be placed in either modex or extreme depending on how much the driver(s) extends from the factory surface. MECA does not specify a driver size limitation in modex in the 2014 rules (2013 was also limited to 4"), but modex has a height restriction on pods.

One of the reasons MrsPapasin chose Extreme was she didn't want to have to ever worry about rules. You always have the option to choose a class "higher" than what your vehicle is classified for. So if you don't ever want to worry about rules, you can do as she did.


----------



## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Lycancatt said:


> well as I'm mostly paying for my own gear now as opposed to working with an insured llc company where if it died we just got a new one..things have changed.


Exactly, and you still need a way to vent that inner demon that likes to blow drivers up.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

papasin said:


> Up front sub is allowed in modified class or higher per the MECA rule book. 4" is largest driver allowed in pillars or pods in modified and has to conform to the 4.5" rule.
> 
> Based on the 2014 MECA rule book, you would likely be placed in either modex or extreme depending on how much the driver(s) extends from the factory surface. MECA does not specify a driver size limitation in modex in the 2014 rules (2013 was also limited to 4"), but modex has a height restriction on pods.
> 
> One of the reasons MrsPapasin chose Extreme was she didn't want to have to ever worry about rules. You always have the option to choose a class "higher" than what your vehicle is classified for. So if you don't ever want to worry about rules, you can do as she did.


Okay, I'll take a gander at the rule book. My pillars are not changing in size, the driver is almost the same size.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

If I'm reading the book right it looks like I should have been in extreme to begin with. Although I'm within 4.5 inches of protrusion from the pillar, I far exceed that from the dash, I'm closer to 6.5 from the dash. Not sure if that still counts as they are not axially built on the dash.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

jnchantler said:


> If I'm reading the book right it looks like I should have been in extreme to begin with. Although I'm within 4.5 inches of protrusion from the pillar, I far exceed that from the dash, I'm closer to 6.5 from the dash. Not sure if that still counts as they are not axially built on the dash.


you're in extreme.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

As in I am now with these changes, or I should have been?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I got the rings aimed today and a layer of fiberglass down. Quite happy with how much further on axis I was able to get them, even though they are much beefier.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Anyone have any input on what to wrap these with? Maybe a link to a fabric or material that will stretch over the shape?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I got about an hour to work on these today, I ground down the high spot from the fiber glassing I did and hit them with a layer of kitty hair to start firming the shape.










For anyone who hasn't used a sanding disk on a grinder, they are the shiznit. They are not the most accurate thing in the world but if you need to move major material they are extremely handy.









I'm still undecided in what to wrap these with when done, it maybe I'll just hit them with truck bed liner and paint them.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Bondo & sanding party, byob.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Those look pretty damn good. As far as covering them goes, about the only chance you would have is grill cloth and at that point you need to be so close to a paintable finish that you may as well hit em with some SEM and be done.

Or you could get someone to stitch something up for you.


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

Those look pretty good. Was that just bondo or bondohair?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I actually just picked up some grey bed liner. That'll hold me over till I decide what to do with them. There's some fiber glass, then bondo hairand then regular bondo.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I've seen JT get around some fairly interesting shapes with a material he uses. Not sure what it is, but Linda's Smart has about 90% coverage with it .


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

While I was waiting for bondo to dry I pulled the dash apart and cleaned up the wiring, got rid of all crimped connections and soldered them together. I also replaced the hideous PRS80 with an alpine Hd149bt as I no longer need its 3way active capabilities.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

thank god! I've never liked that radio and your right, you don't need its capability. I woulda found a radio with a digital out to go straight into the h800 though but that's only because..why not?

also to cover the pillars, go to the la fabric district and get some stretch velvet. it conforms to things really well, wont be reflective at all, and can be gotten in any color you can imagine. plus you can do your b pillars in it too.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Lycancatt said:


> thank god! I've never liked that radio and your right, you don't need its capability. I woulda found a radio with a digital out to go straight into the h800 though but that's only because..why not?
> 
> also to cover the pillars, go to the la fabric district and get some stretch velvet. it conforms to things really well, wont be reflective at all, and can be gotten in any color you can imagine. plus you can do your b pillars in it too.


If I had noise floor problems I would have, but I don't. I also didn't want to loose my steering wheel volume control.

I'll check out the fabric district. May not be till after state though, still got los of work to do. And I have to fix that fcuking turn on pop.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

I'm not telling you this from experience..only theory. If theres a relay that can delay amp turn on, it might fix it, I always think turn on pop is caused by the processor coming online, passing audio I mean, after its turned on the amps, which means you are hearing the pop of the processor and not the pdx amps themselves.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

the fact that I'm hearing it in both the tweeters and the sub would lead me to believe that is true. I'll try and find a relay with a delay in it. Unless someone wants to save me some leg work...


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

perhaps this?
Amazon.com : Vehicle Car Turn On Interface Audio AMP Amplifier Time Delay : Vehicle Audio Auxiliary Adapters : Car Electronics

or more likely this one.
Trigger Modules for Car Audio at Sonic Electronix


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

some more options from another diyma thread.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...r-audio-discussion/15097-amp-power-delay.html


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## palldat (Feb 6, 2011)

The cover would be suede. What amps are you running again?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I'm running a PDX V9 bridged to the midbass and a PDX F4 for the mids and tweets.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Lycancatt said:


> some more options from another diyma thread.
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...r-audio-discussion/15097-amp-power-delay.html


Ha, a 30 second delay. That should give the judge enough time to forget that he was listening for turn on pop.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

too true, I wouldn't though because then it'd draw attention to a problem your trying to cover up.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

And we have primer! Still some spot filling to do but its getting there.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Nice job. Those are looking great. I was having a bad turn-on pop just in my sub with an ms8 into a v9 but now with an h800 it's gone. I'm using ai net and optical tho. Interesting that you're having that problem. Maybe because you're using RCAs?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Golden Ear said:


> Nice job. Those are looking great. I was having a bad turn-on pop just in my sub with an ms8 into a v9 but now with an h800 it's gone. I'm using ai net and optical tho. Interesting that you're having that problem. Maybe because you're using RCAs?


That's ironic, when I had my MS8, I had zero turn on pop. I did not have turn on pop when I first installed the H800 and PDX amps - this was when the F4 was under the front seat. The turn on pop started the day before the gtg at SiS which is when I moved the F4 to behind the back seat to be with the V9 and H800. So there are a few things that changed when the turn on pop started:
1. I put two amps next to the dsp instead of just one.
2. I grounded all three pieces of equipment to the same bolt.
3. I placed the distribution block right below the dsp.(it's actually touching it).
4. In moving all the equipment, there's a possibility that it wiped out the turn on delay setting on the h800.

I'm going to work through the above list and see if I can solve it through reversing one of those changes. 

I don't think I have an ai net option with this deck.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Many have had pop noises with the Pdx amps. Many


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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm right there with that one ^^^ 


Beware of autocorrect...


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

And we have sound. They're just primed right now, I think I'm gonna wrap them in vinyl, I'd I can find some grey all sport.


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

Wow they look nice. How do they sound so far?


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

I like your pillars, nice fab skills!

With larger drivers you probably should use a lower lowpass and also a lower highpass for the tweeters to compensate (if they can be run lower). The reason is to attain full power response in the area of the crossover. The drivers blend much better and it's easier to tune properly.

It's great with midrange drivers in dash height but normally I try keeping speakers away from the windshield as much as possible due to immense acoustic crosstalk that occurs. Nonetheless, I've heard good sounding setup similar to yours


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Hanatsu said:


> I like your pillars, nice fab skills!
> 
> With larger drivers you probably should use a lower lowpass and also a lower highpass for the tweeters to compensate (if they can be run lower). The reason is to attain full power response in the area of the crossover. The drivers blend much better and it's easier to tune properly.
> 
> It's great with midrange drivers in dash height but normally I try keeping speakers away from the windshield as much as possible due to immense acoustic crosstalk that occurs. Nonetheless, I've heard good sounding setup similar to yours


Yes, I dropped the crossover point between the mid and tweet down to 2.2k from about 4k. Next step is going to be getting the tweeters more on axis. 

I'm playing with just running a 2way front stage, with the sub up in footwell I've been having good luck crossing it higher and I think I'm most of the way down there with the new midrange. A/Bing between 2way and 3 way really brings to light just how much resonance there is in the doors. It's obviously a trade off and there is less midbass, but the impact is better and placement of drums, stand up bass etc is far better. I'm still working on both and I'm not dead set either way yet. May wait to get some opinions at next weekends meet.

I feel like I'm just copying Jim at this point lol, that wasn't my intention though.


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

Those pillars look really good. Interesting hearing your differences between 3 and 2 way. Was one harder to blend with the sub?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

RocketBoots said:


> Those pillars look really good. Interesting hearing your differences between 3 and 2 way. Was one harder to blend with the sub?


I haven't spent much time working on the 3 way set up but off the bat the 2 way sounded better.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

How low does the mid play? Will it do 80-100 ish?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

sqnut said:


> How low does the mid play? Will it do 80-100 ish?


It will do 100. I seem to be having issues getting 80 out of it.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

A 100Hz crossover with the sub should work with the sub up front. There's not much stereo information below 100. Will look forward to your opinion.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

100-125Hz with a 24dB/oct slope should work fine with the sub up front. Don't strain the mids below that.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I picked up some vinyl that is relatively to close to one of dozen finishes that nissan used on the dash of the truck. 

I wanted to see if I could get some advice before attempting to vinyl these pillars as the last time it turned out to be a disaster. The vinyl I got stretches both ways, on one axis it has to be at least a 70 percent stretch and the other, about 30. The last time I tired to vinyl these pillars, the glue didn't stick to the back of the vinyl (I had ripped the backing off to make it stretch which I don't think I'll need to do on these) I tried super 90 and tried brushing on weldwood, both attempts failed as the glue didn't adhere to the vinyl, I did wait until it was dry but tacky. Is there a different type of glue I should try or do you guys think it didn't stick because I removed the backing last time?

Should I do the whole pillar in one go, or do half at a time, and I'd you think half, which half?
















And lastly, should I remove the paint primer coat first?


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Cant help much on the glue front. I know people say landau top adhesive and a spray gun. But I would be willing to bet money that you wont be able to cover that in vinyl without a stitch.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Yeah, I'd blend the edges into the panel higher so you don't have those sharp angles. It'll make it A LOT easier to vinyl. Even if you had it stitched, it wouldn't look right, I don't think.

Jay


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

JayinMI said:


> Yeah, I'd blend the edges into the panel higher so you don't have those sharp angles. It'll make it A LOT easier to vinyl. Even if you had it stitched, it wouldn't look right, I don't think.
> 
> Jay


He can't with that handle though.

You have it so nice n primed if it was me I'd hit it with some SEM and be done. 

I do like the shape you have there, just looks like a bear to vinyl. The only way I see it even being possible with one piece is to lay the vinyl over the speaker hole and smooth it out from there.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Yeah, I agree. I just think if you're going to do vinyl, you'll want to change it up some. Otherwise, texture it or flock it and call it good.

I saw someone had used a thick paint and a bunched up plastic grocery bag to try and duplicate the texture, and it came out a lot closer than I expected.

Jay


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

REGULARCAB said:


> But I would be willing to bet money that you wont be able to cover that in vinyl without a stitch.


How much are we talkin?


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

jnchantler said:


> How much are we talkin?


Gentlemans bet?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

REGULARCAB said:


> Gentlemans bet?


Sounds good.

Meanwhile, in terms of a glue to use, I know I can get weldwood locally, not sure about landeau though.

The plastic bag idea is a little scary to me.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Yeah you would have to order it. I know amazon has it, as well as yourautotrim.com


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

JayinMI said:


> Yeah, I agree. I just think if you're going to do vinyl, you'll want to change it up some. Otherwise, texture it or flock it and call it good.
> 
> I saw someone had used a thick paint and a bunched up plastic grocery bag to try and duplicate the texture, and it came out a lot closer than I expected.
> 
> Jay


If I were to go with texture, do you have one you would recommend? The last time I think I used rustoleum and it was kinda crap. Didn't lay down an even texture, apart out globs etc.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm kind of a fan of SEM Texture Coat. But it doesn't really *match* anything, it just looks better than smooth. If you spray it over and kinda far away (18-24") it lays out pretty nice. Sometimes I hit it with a light sandpaper after like 320 or 400. Sometimes I spray it over the part but parallel to it so it kinda "rains" down on the surface. That works pretty good too.

Jay


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

JayinMI said:


> I'm kind of a fan of SEM Texture Coat. But it doesn't really *match* anything, it just looks better than smooth. If you spray it over and kinda far away (18-24") it lays out pretty nice. Sometimes I hit it with a light sandpaper after like 320 or 400. Sometimes I spray it over the part but parallel to it so it kinda "rains" down on the surface. That works pretty good too.
> 
> Jay


Nice, thanks for the tips.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Did some sound deadening this evening to try and help some resonance issues.

A couple of weeks ago I did the outer door skin with Dynomat, along with the inner door skin, I also blocked off the large holes with wood panels. After this I was still having resonance issues.

So this evening I took the plastic door card of and started laying cld tiles down on it. I used hot glue to help seal any loose parts of the door such add the plastic clips and where the two parts of the door card meet. Lastly I did the ccf and mlv layer.

I purposely only did one door so that I could see the difference and I'll do the other door tomorrow. simply put, the difference is huge. $70 well spent IMO.









(The streaks of hot glue in the picture above are from the factory sound deadening).


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I did the same deadening to the other door this evening. Unfortunately instill have some resonance, but it is much better. I think it will be easy to locate as it's a fairly loud vibration so I'm thinking something is loose on the passenger side.

I've come to the conclusion that doors really aren't a good place for large midbass drivers, but the sub in the footwell curbs any plans to do kick panel enclosures. I guess I'll work with what I have and find a happy medium somewhere.

The good news, for the first time since starting this build I actually don't have a desire to change out any equipment. I may change the angle of tweeters, but that's it other than finishing up the existing items and maybe more sound deadening. We'll see how long that lasts, lol.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Made a little progress today in preparation for next weekend. I carpeted the box, put my threaded inserts in and lightly stuffed with some polyfil. I also measured the internal dimensions with packaging peanuts and I'm at .45.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Here's a pic of the box installed. 
















In cleaning up my garage I found some left over grill cloth and decided to play around with it, then it went a little further and a little further and I ended up with this:















The light makes the color a little funny looking but it actually came out looking great. I was surprised. I guess I lost the bet, but I didn't even try to wrap then in vinyl.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Looks good. What kind of adhesive did you use?

Jay


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I hot glued it on the backside. I wasn't sure about using any form of adhesive on the front, I figured it would bleed through the grill cloth. If I get any good recommendations I may pull it off an do it again, it's not on there permanently.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Here are a couple of better shots in the daylight.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Just found your thread, I will enjoy reading the entire journey as I travel today. The BM under the dash is exactly what I had done - love it!


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Looks really good. Are you planning on covering the dash with a mat or something?


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

bertholomey said:


> Just found your thread, I will enjoy reading the entire journey as I travel today. The BM under the dash is exactly what I had done - love it!


The BM sounds better than it ever has in my truck, sound wise it seems to be the perfect location for it. 

....

I can't figure out how to quote more than once in a reply, so to sqnut: yes I ordered a dash mat and it will be here Thursday, just in time for state finals.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

jnchantler said:


> The BM sounds better than it ever has in my truck, sound wise it seems to be the perfect location for it.
> 
> ....
> 
> I can't figure out how to quote more than once in a reply, so to sqnut: yes I ordered a dash mat and it will be here Thursday, just in time for state finals.


looks good man!

A dash mat will help the tweeters if you keep them in that location.

Looking forward to hearing it sometime


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

BigRed said:


> looks good man!
> 
> A dash mat will help the tweeters if you keep them in that location.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing it sometime


I'm assuming i'll see you in SLO next weekend.

I need to hear your truck again with some material that I'm familiar with. I loved the tonality and placement of the stand-up bass in yours but I don't think I listened to anything I'd heard before when I demo'd it in Torrance.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

jnchantler said:


> I can't figure out how to quote more than once in a reply, so to sqnut: yes I ordered a dash mat and it will be here Thursday, just in time for state finals.


Select all posts you want to quote using the multi quote button, the one with the '+' sign. Then click on the 'post reply' button and it will open a reply window with all the posts you selected. .


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Just a minor adjustment....


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## MrsPapasin (May 21, 2013)

Congratulations, James! Great job scoring among the top cars of the day!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks Linda. I'm glad there was some stiff competition in extreme... I'll be back next year. 

Here are my score sheets for those that are interested, big change from a couple of months ago. 




























Id like to thank all of you guys that have helped me on this build and through the competitions, but especially to Mike (lycancat) for his incredible tuning capabilities, John and Jim for your brutally honest critique in Torrance and Jim again for arranging all the shows.

And a note to anyone that didn't know, I blew a mid bass on the way to the show so this was a 2way plus sub tune for the competition which I think worked out well.


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## palldat (Feb 6, 2011)

You deserve the accolades as the system came together nicely and sounds great. 

I got home at 2. 2pm


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

it was a pleasure to work on this vehicle because it was so well sorted before I even got to it, james knows his fab work and has good ideas to achieve sometimes silly sounding goals.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

palldat said:


> You deserve the accolades as the system came together nicely and sounds great.
> 
> I got home at 2. 2pm


Go see the MECA state finals thread


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Congratulations James. Even though it was a short demo, I enjoyed your truck as well. I look forward to seeing you and the truck at the next event.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

I swapped out the blown phd drivers with a set of peerless SLS8's, sorry forgot to take photos...

I've been trying since the beginning of the build to handle door resonances, with some luck... but they're still there. I notice a huge reduction in resonance when I lower the window, I assume this is because the glass of the window is redirecting the back wave of the driver so it's not pounding on the outer door skin.

Anyone know of products you can use directly behind the driver to help with this? I know there are a few things on the market but I wanted to see what you guys have had success with.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Nice improved scores!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Electrodynamic said:


> Nice improved scores!


Yeah, I was quite happy with how far that came along. From a 66 to an 85 in three months.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

I'm looking forward to hearing the differences, I bet techno/house music will be a lot more fun in there now


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

8lb9oz, delivered yesterday. Goes without saying, I won't be getting much done on my truck in the near future, but I'll try and make it to the local comps.


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## MrsPapasin (May 21, 2013)

Cute!!! Congratulations! Enjoy this special time. It will go by fast!


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

congrats on the baby! i forsee a lot of sleepless nights!


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

MrsPapasin said:


> Cute!!! Congratulations! Enjoy this special time. It will go by fast!



Seconded. We'll have another one playing with hot wheels cars and bubbles at the comps soon.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

papasin said:


> Seconded. We'll have another one playing with hot wheels cars and bubbles at the comps soon.


My older daughter is probably getting close to that. She loves music and singing, and listening to her music in my truck. My god do I know the Tarzan and Frozen soundtracks inside out lol.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

jnchantler said:


> My older daughter is probably getting close to that. She loves music and singing, and listening to her music in my truck. My god do I know the Tarzan and Frozen soundtracks inside out lol.



Someone I respect to have very refined ears asked me to play "Let it Go" in one of our cars because of how well he knew the nuances of that track.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

papasin said:


> Someone I respect to have very refined ears asked me to play "Let it Go" in one of our cars because of how well he knew the nuances of that track.


I beleive it. You should check out two worlds (the sound track version) by Phil Collins. It's actually a good demo song.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Awesome job on that baby  I had my girls listening to my cars from birth and now if they get in a car with out any kind of audio upgrades they get all bent out of shape !


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Congrats man!!


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Ooooooh fat little babies are the best! Congratulations! If you enjoy your sanity don't get kids into the Mickey Mouse Hot Dog Dance. My 15 month old wakes me up from our nap with "hot dog HOT DOG!!! Hot dooooog?!?". The little booty bounce she calls dancing is pretty cute though.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

REGULARCAB said:


> Ooooooh fat little babies are the best! Congratulations! If you enjoy your sanity don't get kids into the Mickey Mouse Hot Dog Dance. My 15 month old wakes me up from our nap with "hot dog HOT DOG!!! Hot dooooog?!?". The little booty bounce she calls dancing is pretty cute though.


What sanity. And by the way it's: hot dog, hot dog, hot diggity dog. And yes you gotta love a nice fat baby.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

jnchantler said:


> What sanity. And by the way it's: hot dog, hot dog, hot diggity dog. And yes you gotta love a nice fat baby.


Nope ask my daughter its clearly hot dog HOT DOG!!! hot dooooooog!.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

REGULARCAB said:


> Nope ask my daughter its clearly hot dog HOT DOG!!! hot dooooooog!.


Well we should put our daughters on the phone and let them hash this one out. You and I can mediate.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

papasin said:


> Seconded. We'll have another one playing with hot wheels cars and bubbles at the comps soon.


Finals weekend must have been good to you. LOL Congratulations.

Jay


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

JayinMI said:


> Finals weekend must have been good to you. LOL Congratulations.
> 
> Jay


Uh, no Jay lol. The congrats goes to James...but as for me and Linda, we are perfectly happy with our two. I was referring to the hot wheels and bubbles activities we set up during state finals and other comps that we have other kids participate in...you needed to be there.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Ah, OK. I thought you meant YOU were going to have another one. Gotcha.

Jay


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## palldat (Feb 6, 2011)

jnchantler said:


> 8lb9oz, delivered yesterday. Goes without saying, I won't be getting much done on my truck in the near future, but I'll try and make it to the local comps.


Congratulations and welcome to the parenthood


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Aw Cute as a button!! Congrats James.:blush:


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Congratulations on the new baby! 

Looks like there will be plenty of "SQ Kids" running around the California get togethers for several years to come. Our second is on their way, due the end of April.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

Congratulations James!!! Cute baby!


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## brother_c (Sep 21, 2015)

Thanks for posting in depth about your truck. I've got a frontier also and I can't seem to find very much, so seeing all the different variations and the way you did things is very helpful. I know you were saying there were vibrations/resonance that you could never get rid of with the original sub placement. Did you ever have any rear fill? I'm just curious because I am looking to place a sub in the center console area, but I see yours placed up front and you seemed to really like the sound up there much more. I'm hoping to use a regular depth sub with 8's in the front doors as well, but I don't think I could fit all that in a footwell. Just curious what you think? Great results on your truck.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

brother_c said:


> Thanks for posting in depth about your truck. I've got a frontier also and I can't seem to find very much, so seeing all the different variations and the way you did things is very helpful. I know you were saying there were vibrations/resonance that you could never get rid of with the original sub placement. Did you ever have any rear fill? I'm just curious because I am looking to place a sub in the center console area, but I see yours placed up front and you seemed to really like the sound up there much more. I'm hoping to use a regular depth sub with 8's in the front doors as well, but I don't think I could fit all that in a footwell. Just curious what you think? Great results on your truck.


Sorry I haven't been on in a while. It's nice to hear there is another frontier owner on here. I couldn't find much when I did mine. I'm still not happy with the sub to be honest, for competitions, the box in the footwell works beautifully however, when I want to have some fun it lacks a little, we'll kind of a lot actually. I may put my my JL W6 12" in the back in more than just a pre-fab'd box sitting on the seat, we'll see.

I'm planning on putting my SLS 8's in the kicks, we'll see if that happens before I sell it though.

The main thing on the vibrations is the vicinity to the drivers seat, it's not a rattle or noise, it's just that it pulls the stage back. But if your not in a competition, it's not that bad. With this truck, everything is a toss up and a sacrifice. There's just no damn room. Except the apillars, there's gobs of room up there.

I've played with rear fill but always end up turning it off. I wouldn't do subs in the doors, you'll have to many vibration problems, trying to keep
8-inch mid basses tame is hard enough. I've put a lot of effort into deadening the doors but they still rattle. If you want my advice, put 8-inch miss in the kicks and build a box for a full size 12 upside down on the floor behind the two front seats. There's some good pictures somewhere on the Internet of one that wasn't ugly IMO. I'll see if I can dig one up.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

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## brother_c (Sep 21, 2015)

That is something to think about there it definitely makes effective use of the space. I would like to nix the center console myself. I have a long ways to go here, again thanks for all the valuable info. Always good to have experience to draw on.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Got a little 2.5" lift done and new Bilsteins all the way around.

















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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

jnchantler said:


> Got a little 2.5" lift done and new Bilsteins all the way around.



Taking SQ to another level. 


Beware of autocorrect...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I see what you did there 


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Much like for the Bilsteins!


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

The Frontier is now gone, traded in for a 2016 Accord Sport 6spd. I'll be starting a build log on that one soon. 




















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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

No more need to haul a giant ladder around anymore?


Beware of autocorrect...


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

DRTHJTA said:


> No more need to haul a giant ladder around anymore?
> 
> 
> Beware of autocorrect...




He got a ladder that he can fit in the trunk but folds out to 20 feet long lol


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Nope. I changed jobs about two months ago. Now I carry a crawl suit, tape measure, 4ft level and several flashlights.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Golden Ear said:


> He got a ladder that he can fit in the trunk but folds out to 20 feet long lol




I used to have one of those telescoping ladders. They are death traps I swear. I did used to put a 32-ft on my sportwagon though, and it was orange to it looked like a helicopter.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Congrats on the new ride. Make sure to post a link to the new build in here so we don't miss out.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

How are the stock locations? Will this be in the lanes in "stock" form Sunday?


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I really like those " Sport " Accords, they seem to to be really worth buying.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

I wish they were V6 6Sp plus had the touring lights but other than that they are so nice.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

papasin said:


> How are the stock locations? Will this be in the lanes in "stock" form Sunday?




Haha, I don't think I'll bother entering it, but I do want to come down and get some ideas/advice for this next build.

I'll post think link when I make the thread.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

The gas mileage for the events further out should be better.


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## brother_c (Sep 21, 2015)

Good luck with your build on the new ride. Thanks for all the info on the frontier.


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## jnchantler (Apr 11, 2012)

Here's the link for the Accord build:

http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/bui...hantlers-2016-accord-sport-9th-gen-build.html


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