# 2004 Dodge Durango - simple system



## Ge0

Hello all,

I noticed no Gen 2 Durango installs here so I thought I'd share some of what I am doing.

What I do with a vehicle has been scaled back quite a bit since my two sons were born a few years ago. I no longer have the time to devote to full blown systems and crazy installs anymore. However, I DO love my tunes.

I can't consume my cargo space with custom sub enclosures and equipment racks. I need this space to pack strollers, toys, etc... Also, this space needs to be durable. I don't want loose cargo damaging something I've spent weeks fabricating.

Finally, I don't have a lot of time on my hands anymore. Raising a 1 year old and a 2 year old is a 2nd full time job. Anything I have done has been in any spare time I can find. 10 minutes here, 2 hours there, over what seems to be weeks.

Here is what I started with.








The vehicle came equipt with a surprizingly kick a$$ sound system that contained an 8" sub powered by a 100W amp. Even with the presence of the sub, the system lacked ANY umph in the low end. You could faintly hear deep bass notes, but they would never rattle your bones.

Here is the stock sub after trim panel removal:









After much research into alternate 8" subs I ran across the 10" Rockford Fosgate shallow mounts. Fosgate is not my first choice but seemed perfect for this application. But first, I had to modify the enclosure:








It takes a great leap of faith to permanently modify stock stuff. I said WTF, this is the first vehicle I've owned vs leased for years....

Cutting a larger hole:









Whew, I got the sub to fit. I bolted the enclosure back in and gave it a try. Crap, the cheap polypropylene enclosure that came with the stock system fluttered around like a limp noodle when I applied serious bass. It bellowed out like a blowfish when a 50Hz note hit. It was clear I needed to re-enforce this sucker. Given the odd shape of the enclosure, Fiberglass was the only way to go. The problem, I've never glassed before. No biggie. I've seen plenty of guys do it in the past.

The first step was to design and mount the baffle:









The next problem... Polypropylene is a cheap and easy to mold plastic, but nothing, including fiberglass resin, sticks to it. I had to think of alternate measures. I addressed the forums and didn't come up with much I felt confident with. I visited some industrial websites that discussed plastics. I came up with some 3M adhesives that would bond fiberglass mat to the plastic housing. Good thing is, that one of them (3M spray adhesive 90) was readily available at Home Depot!!!

Here is the start:









Here it is completed:









Now I could paint resin over the base coat of glass and continue on as normal. Here is the enclosure after 3 layers of glass were added:

















Before adding the baffle and glass I calculated the clearance I had all around to make sure adding the additional thickness would not interefere with placing the trim panel back on. Here is the housing bolted in:









I placed the trim panel back on. The first thing I noticed is that the surround from the sub was so tall that it would hit the backside of the trim panel. I needed to fix this. The Fosgate sub came with a real cool looking trim ring. Hmm, how could I make this work? I decided to take another leap of faith and cut a hole in the trim panel:









Here is what things look like after the final size of the hole was cut and the trim panel is mounted:









After trying this out I found my next hurdle. The sub enclosure was now coupled the vehicle Through the trim panel. There were rattles and hums everwhere.

I calmed them down by adding MDF bracing to weak metals in the vehicle body and by adding padding to the enclosure so the trim panel will not rattle and buzz against it:









The test amp I had (Xtant 302A) is a damn nice amp. However, if I have learned anything in my 20 years of installing car audio gear is that you should always have more power than you need to drive a sub. Best not be disappointed. The Xtant wasn't quite cutting it. So, after numerous recommendations, I tracked down and installed a JL 500/1 under the drivers side 2nd row seat. This seamed like a logical choice in mounting locations:









The last thing on my mind was the useless third row seats. I'll have child safety seats mounted to the 2nd row seats for the next 5 years. I can't take them out to haul more people. I couldn't access the third row seats even if I wanted too. Folded down the 3rd row is a pain in the butt. It doesn't lay flat. You can't pile stuff on it when hauling cargo. That, and stuff falls between the head rests. You need to climb back there to clean it out. So, I decided removing the seats and adding a flat false floor might be the way to go.

Seats removed:









False floor that I fabricated:

















And the final result:









Now I'm thinking, hmmm... There is a lot of empty space under that false floor. Not enough to mount one of my Mass 2012 subs since their mounting depth is so deep, but, I betcha I could fit a Fosgate shallow mount 12" under there. This will be very tricky. I don't want the sub exposed in the cargo area. I needs to fire down towards the floor of the vehicle. This means everything needs to occur under the false floor. But, how do I Judge depths and dimensions under there? I'd be working blind. Any recommendations would be appreciated...

Ge0


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## Weightless

Nice retro fit on the sub...very clean. 

So, you used the original plastic sub box and just glassed over it?


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## Ge0

SQ_Baru said:


> Nice retro fit on the sub...very clean.
> 
> So, you used the original plastic sub box and just glassed over it?


Yep. In retrospect I could have also created a two part mold out of glass and bonded them together to do the same thing. The only problem there was coming up with the mounting ears.

Ge0


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## chuyler1

Great job... I love how it all fit together with the trim ring on the outside of the factory panel. I hope you added some sound deadener to that panel because I'm sure it will rattle like crazy with more bass.


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## ArcL100

That looks fantastic. Looks stock. Awesome!

-aaron


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## FlipnKraut

wow thats one great looking install. why not put one on the other side as well?


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## Ge0

FlipnKraut said:


> wow thats one great looking install. why not put one on the other side as well?


There are a few electromechanical mechanisms and control modules under the opposite side trim panel. I would have to relocate a lot of junk to make space for a second sub enclosure there.

There is a lot of dead space under the false floor. I think it makes more sense to put subs under there.


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## Ge0

OK, here is a good one.

Normally I love the speaker placement in Dodge vehicles. The dash is real deep and speakers mounted in the dash are usually spaced far enough apart to create an awesome image.

However, they decided to space the left and right speakers too close towards center in the Durango. The soundstage seems too narrow.

I decided to give this a try:

















This is a trick I have used quite extensively. What you see in the photo is a stock 3-1/2" driver with a Audax tweeter mounted to it. I have the imaging where I want it, octave to octave frequency balance is almost there, but sound still seems a little harsh.

Can you recommend a small mid/tweet combo (could be coaxial) that I can try? Mind you, the mid has to be pretty shallow to fit here. I can't have something, or do I need something, with a huge magnet structure. The mounting depth would prevent me from placing the speakers where I want them.

I don't want to take the time to create fiberglass housings until I have made my final speaker selection.

Thanks.


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## Hillbilly SQ

looks good. however i hope that oem midrange has an enclosed rear to it. if not, how you liking the cancellation?


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## Ge0

TEAM SHIMANO/FALCON said:


> looks good. however i hope that oem midrange has an enclosed rear to it. if not, how you liking the cancellation?


Yeah, it has a closed basket. Not saying a new driver needs a closed basket as well. I eventually will fabricate some custom mini kicks for them that will act as a baffle for open back devices.

Ge0


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## rekd0514

Creative way of using the stock enclosure.


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## Ge0

rekd0514 said:


> Creative way of using the stock enclosure.


I think of it more of using the stock location. Using the stock enclosure was just a side effect (i.e. convenient).

Ge0


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## rekd0514

True, you could have also used the stock enclosure as a mold to make a entirely fiberglass enclosure as well. Though you did say you have little experience with FG.


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## Ge0

Well, I've done a lot more work on this vehicle since my last post. Here is a look at my doors. One door is pictured, but all 4 are done identical with the same drivers.

Much of what I have done was per the advice from Rick at Raamaudio. BTW, I only used a little Dynamat Xtreme to get me started until my rolls of Raamat came in. Rick is such an awesome guy. I wanted to give him credit for much of what I have done. His product does not have any advertising labels.

Here is the stock door with a test driver mounted:









Here is the door stripped down:









Applied 2 layers of Raamat to the outer door skin. 3rd layer in areas subject to more flex.

Now that this was done, need to plug up them big holes:









Don't want to cut sheet metal for the smaller holes. However, I don;t want to rely on sound deadener alone to add structure. Here is what I dreaned up:









Inner door skin is thin as paper and flexes. I wanted to re-enforce it. So, I made this shim:









Here is the shim installed:









Next, three layers of Raamat on the inner door skin. Only took pictures of the first 1-1/2 to 2 layers:









Mount the drivers. Anyone recognize these?:









Now I need to do something about those flimsy rattling door panels. A few layers of Raamat in areas that matter should do it:









For the most part this worked very well. The only problem. The clipping mechanisms that hold the door panel to the inner door skin leave gapping holes between the cavity formed between the outer and inner door skins, and, the the cavity formed by the inner door skin and door panel. Air pressure escapes from the first cavity and into the second cavity. This makes the door panel rattle like a son-of-a-*****. You can feel air whisping from all seams. I wish I could find a way to seal off the two cavities better. However, every attempt made so far prevents me from installing the door panel.

Ge0


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## Ge0

Experimental tweeter placement for the component set described above. So far they remain here. Good results so far. I'll need to fashion some pretty fiberglass wave guides and cover them in ensolite:

Front left:









Front right:









Some might say this tweeter placement sucks and will only draw the stage down. However, try it some time. This placement helps raise the stage believe it or not.

Ge0


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## Ge0

This may be getting beyond the description of "simple system" 

Here is a temp install of the amp that drives my front stage and rear fill. Still contemplating how much I'm going to dress this up since it is hidden under a false floor:


















Here is how I grounded this sucker if you care:


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## Ge0

Oh, almost forgit a pic of the vehicle. Pretty ain't it?


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## Rockin'Z28

Nice job on the doors, Ge0. Did you fasten that shim in place? I'd be worried about it rattling around on our fantastic MI roadways.

Did your doors seem noticeably heavier?? Mine did, but they are really long to start with. 

Good luck as you work on the permanent enclosures for the tweets.


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## Ge0

Rockin'Z28 said:


> Nice job on the doors, Ge0. Did you fasten that shim in place? I'd be worried about it rattling around on our fantastic MI roadways.
> 
> Did your doors seem noticeably heavier?? Mine did, but they are really long to start with.
> 
> Good luck as you work on the permanent enclosures for the tweets.


Held them in place by very tight fit (see the wood shim) and drywall screws (through the inner door skin). I don't feel like driving screws through the outer door skin. It may not look so good from the outside. 

They don't rattle now. They might in the future since MDF will absord moisture and warp/deteriorate. However, like most in this vehicle, it is temporary until I can think of something better. 

Going to bed now. I suggest you do too 

Ge0


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## azngotskills

have you thought about expanding foam as a solution?


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## Ge0

azngotskills said:


> have you thought about expanding foam as a solution?


Solution for what? Weight loss, world peace? 

I think I know where you are going with this but please elaborate.

Ge0


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## Boostedrex

azngotskills said:


> have you thought about expanding foam as a solution?


Expanding foam FTW!!!! As long as you don't over due it. I learned that one the hard way.  But it really is amazing how good of a job that foam will do.


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## mobeious

how u like the xs 6's


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## Ge0

mobeious said:


> how u like the xs 6's


I'll let you know once I have the system dialed in properly (amps have only been in for a week!). I think I still have a few funky quirks with phasing and frequency response that could be hindering them.

Ge0


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## 00RedRT

Just curious, did you ever find a solution for the doors? I have a Dakota and my door panels have the same "hooks" which require leaving the same openings in the doors. 

And mad props for the sub enclosure. Veddy niiiiice!


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## niceguy

Nice job so far....My '94 Grand Voyager had a really decent stock system w/only rear 6x9s for bass and good overall Inifinity sound....

A friend of my bro in law has the same gen Durango and asked me about installing these huge bullet style horn tweets that belong in a Metallica concernt...he wants them in his dash where the mid/tweets are

He also has some stow/go plastic bin under the second seat row and wants his subs and MORE Metallica tweets firing up at the roof...he asked, 'These are 200watts each, will that be loud enough?'

I declined the install until further consultation  


Jeremy


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## Ge0

00RedRT said:


> Just curious, did you ever find a solution for the doors? I have a Dakota and my door panels have the same "hooks" which require leaving the same openings in the doors.
> 
> And mad props for the sub enclosure. Veddy niiiiice!



I've done a buttload of sealing and deadening to them but have not overcome the door hooks yet. Still looking for a good answer since it is kiling my midbass performance.

Ge0


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## Ge0

niceguy said:


> Nice job so far....My '94 Grand Voyager had a really decent stock system w/only rear 6x9s for bass and good overall Inifinity sound....
> 
> A friend of my bro in law has the same gen Durango and asked me about installing these huge bullet style horn tweets that belong in a Metallica concernt...he wants them in his dash where the mid/tweets are
> 
> He also has some stow/go plastic bin under the second seat row and wants his subs and MORE Metallica tweets firing up at the roof...he asked, 'These are 200watts each, will that be loud enough?'
> 
> I declined the install until further consultation
> 
> 
> Jeremy


Jeremy,

I bet you just shook your head at this guys idea of good sound. Super tweets under the seats?  

I wish he could hear my Durango lately. It's really starting to come alive!

Ge0


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## Ge0

00RedRT said:


> Just curious, did you ever find a solution for the doors? I have a Dakota and my door panels have the same "hooks" which require leaving the same openings in the doors.
> 
> And mad props for the sub enclosure. Veddy niiiiice!


Man, you have some MAD equipment in that list! You're prolly hurting as much as I regarding those door clips.

Ge0


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## Ge0

Not that any of you care, but I recently added a 160Gig iPod into the mix. This is realized through the MOPAR 82209617AC adapter. This will allow me to control the iPod with my factory radio. This may be helpful for those of you with a similar vehicle. To the rest. Well, just be sit back and watch .

Loosen the center console trim panel:









Drop the trim panel down:









The translator module that displays iPod info on my NAV had unit. Hey, its electronic. COuldn't help but to take a look inside. BTW, NEVER trust me with a Zuki amp!!!









The full harness assembly ready for installation. A lot of wires and stuff for a simple function:









Connected to the head unit and ready to be stuffed into the dash:









Wrap up the excess wire and tuck it in:









Secure the module into place:









Temporary home for the iPod in the front cubby hole of the center console. Once the weather warms up a little perhaps I'll create a JML sytle flush holder for it, OR, hide it in the lower compartment of the center console:









Well, after an hour of install time (most was spent tracking down the tools I needed) it works!!! Hundreds of albums now on tap:









And that's about it. Any text the iPod can display is sent to the NAV screen. Song title, artist, track, etc... I can also use the controls on my stock head unit to access the iPods selection and playback functions.

Ge0


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## Ge0

Finally got sick of winter getting the better of me last weekend and worked on the install a little. It was a whopping 40 degrees (and raining ). Oh, what the heck, so I get a little wet...

















I decided what I wanted to do with my tweeters for the time being . This spring I wish to try horns and then switch over to try a three way front stage with dedicated midrange. But, I digress. Nothing ground breaking but here is what I came up with:

Locate where I want them on the kick panel given the size of the backside flange

















Mark the drill location

















Use a smaller diameter hole saw to set the guide hole for the larger hole saw









Cut the actual hole using the a larger hole saw of the proper diameter









Whew... The tweeters front flange fits through without too much slop









Tweeters installed

















Don't make fun of my wiring. It is temporary until the weather clears up









Finally the kicks are placed back in the vehicle

















And that is it for now.


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## Guest

Lookin good. I need to get into fiberglassing for my next sub project.


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## Ge0

ZRide said:


> Lookin good. I need to get into fiberglassing for my next sub project.


Thanks. It's modest compared to others, but, it's 100% mine.

Fiberglassing offers so many more options as far as size/shape/functionality. I just wish it wasn't so damn messy to work with.

Ge0


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## Need-sq

Really nice work! I can't imagine finding the time with two little ones. I have my first due, beginning of April. I'm excited but fear my llife is going to be over:blush: . I think I have to work on my time management skills in order to keep my car audio going, heck, to keep anything going....I babble.....Again, looks really nice. Keep pics coming.


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## Thumper26

that is one HELL of a speaker wire for a tweeter!!! 

j/k  very nice work!


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## BigRed

Life won't be over unless SHE says it is


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## Ge0

Need-sq said:


> Really nice work! I can't imagine finding the time with two little ones. I have my first due, beginning of April. I'm excited but fear my llife is going to be over:blush: . I think I have to work on my time management skills in order to keep my car audio going, heck, to keep anything going....I babble.....Again, looks really nice. Keep pics coming.


You wouldn't begin to understand the hassle it is just to get out and work on the car for a few hours. I treasure the kids nap time . But, I have two very active little boys who aren't old enough yet to realize you can't chew on daddies router cord. Catch my drift  

Then there is my wife: you're going to work on your f#$king car again?

Me: yep... 

Her: geek...

Oh well....

Seriously though. Your life won't be over with a child in the house. It will be different, and for the better mind you. Things you found important before will take a back seat. But, you won't mind it too much. TIme tinkering with car audio will probably taper off.

My advice. Get away from the computer and take care of a lot of labor intensive things you want to do before the child is born. Also, buy your toys now!!! You'll have time to read and type later. You may not have as much time and money to tinker with your car after the fact.

Good luck and congrats!!!

Ge0


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## Ge0

Thumper26 said:


> that is one HELL of a speaker wire for a tweeter!!!
> 
> j/k  very nice work!


I found I needed that to avoid power loss 

Please ignore the dirty carpet. Salt and slush in the nasty winter environment is hell on a cars interior. I usually keep it much cleaner than that. But, it's a loosing battle here from December clear through March.

Ge0


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## Ge0

BigRed said:


> Life won't be over unless SHE says it is


Still looking for a way to get her involved. 

Ge0


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## Thumper26

my wife would help me with boxes, etc.

now we have a kid, free time to work on the car has diminished greatly...


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## bretti_kivi

they go to bed early 

nice install, Like the sub in the cargo area and correct false floor usage. Couldn't you fit a LAT in there?

Bret


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## Ge0

bretti_kivi said:


> they go to bed early
> 
> nice install, Like the sub in the cargo area and correct false floor usage. Couldn't you fit a LAT in there?
> 
> Bret


Thank you for the kind words Bret. Please elaborate, a LAT?

Ge0


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## bretti_kivi

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=175&products_id=8288 That's what I mean. Nice and flat, maybe the port towards the front of the truck?

Bret


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## Ge0

bretti_kivi said:


> http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=175&products_id=8288 That's what I mean. Nice and flat, maybe the port towards the front of the truck?
> 
> Bret


OK, I understand now. 

I can't see how I would pull that one off though.

Ge0


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## Ge0

I am pretty satisfied with my system thusfar. I need to do some work at deadening the environment up, but, that will come when the weather warms up. 

I keep questioning if I can do better. I'm about to bypass my factory amp. For the first time I'll have a full range signal to work with. The implications, I can add as many speakers as I want and choose my own crossover points / slopes. I'll no longer be limited to the factory EQ settings, crossover points, and time alignment.

So, the 1st part of my experimentation. A 3 way front stage.

Do you think these suckers will aid to my experiment or detract? Audax 3.5" midranges of unknown performance. Bought them cheap a while ago to play around with. Through my experimentation, in these enclosures they play well down to about 250Hz with a fairly steep crossover.

My goal is to cross the front door mids from 80Hz up to about 350Hz. The midranges will cover roughly 350 Hz up to about 3KHz. The tweets (already installed) will take care of this from 3KHz and up.





































Ge0


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## Ge0

My experiment today with trying to fit full body horns was a complete failure.

Here are the cardboard mockups I built using dimensions supplied by Sean at ID. They are accurate to about 1/4" in all applicable dimensions:




































The HVAC blower motor and E-brake / brake pedal here:
http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=190663&postcount=8

Are preventing me from going this route. The horn would need to stick out about 2" from the front face of the dash on the passengers side due to the blower motor. I would have to drop them about 3 inches down and angled up to clear it. Then, they would obstruct the passengers feet.

Even if I could live with that, I can't live with the obstructions between the horn mouth and the E-brake. The E-brake would have to be removed to get the horn over towards the door far enough. Then, the compression driver gets wedged right into the main brake arm. Just sounds dangerous for a daily driver. If I attempt to lower the horn then it gets in the way of my feet. A definite no-no.

I'll try some mockups with mini-bodies but I don't have a lot of faith. I think the brake issues will still exist.

Looks like a three way setup may be on the plate next.

Ge0


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## ClinesSelect

I would have really been impressed if you were able to fit full size horns in a Durango.  I tried but couldn't get full size bodies in my Ram absent some major surgery to the HVAC on the passenger size. The mini-bodies fit like a glove however with only minor modifications.


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## Ge0

ClinesSelect said:


> The mini-bodies fit like a glove however with only minor modifications.


Hmmm. Elaborate?

Ge0


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## ClinesSelect

I had to relocate a support strap on the passenger side and cut a notch in the plastic kick panel to get the bodies from the CD1E to fit. Then I bought a pair of the mini bodies for the CD1PRO which mounts the compression driver parallel to the mouth. Those fit even better as now the driver fits without the notch being cut in the kick. 

I hate posting pics in other people's threads but here are the three different bodies next to each other. You can see the size difference between them.


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## chad

That mockup is awesome... Macgyver


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## Ge0

chad said:


> That mockup is awesome... Macgyver


Heh, yeah I scrambled to find junk to build it during my lunch hour. I saw a set of horns for sale here that I wanted and needed to make a decision quick.

Thanks for the comment.

Shall I post these in the "stuff for free thread"?

Ge0


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## Ge0

Well, I used the one warmer weekend day we've had in 4 months to cut the **** out of my hands and do some additional work.

First off, the three way sound stage. Baffles are just something I had laying around from an old install:

















































All I can say, in the modest words of our friend Milox, is OH MY ****ING GOD!!!

Why have I not tried a three way front stage sooner in this vehicle? Midrange went from pretty damn good (2-way) to orgasmic (3-way). Vocals are so much more clear and focused. Tonality is naturally fluid, not achieved by tons of processing power. So, to answer your questions, it seems better .

Now, what amps am I using to drive a three way AND keep my rear fill?

Well, I got busy there too:

To start:

















An amp mounting board:









Test fitting a DC 360.4:

















Wired that sucker in:









Complete:


















Ge0


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## circa40

Bring it back to Dodge and tell them thats that way it should have came LOL!

I bet it sounds as great as it looks


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## 90and90

amazing, I wanted to post and it said I had to make one, I ended up reading this whole thread, everything you did looks really clean btw.


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## BlueAc

Question for you Ge0... I see that you retained your factory h/u did you use the symbilink products to do so? I'm referring to the SLB-U and BLT's... I scrolled thru your write up and didn't see anything about it (maybe I missed it). 
By the way everything looks great... keep up the good work.


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## Ge0

circa40 said:


> Bring it back to Dodge and tell them thats that way it should have came LOL!
> 
> I bet it sounds as great as it looks


Dialing in a three way stage is much more difficult than a two way. But, it is getting there. I hope to reap the fruits of my labor within a few weeks.

Ge0


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## Ge0

90and90 said:


> amazing, I wanted to post and it said I had to make one, I ended up reading this whole thread, everything you did looks really clean btw.


Thanks. 

Wiring is an absolute mess but its just temporary. I needed something to listen to and tweak over the cold winter. I'll redo the wiring and power distribution once it warms up a little and I have a full day or two to devote to it.

That and perhaps some decorative amp shrouds.

Ge0


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## Ge0

BlueAc said:


> Question for you Ge0... I see that you retained your factory h/u did you use the symbilink products to do so? I'm referring to the SLB-U and BLT's... I scrolled thru your write up and didn't see anything about it (maybe I missed it).
> By the way everything looks great... keep up the good work.


BlueAC,

This "premium" factory system is a tricky one to over-ride. The head unit sends a plain old line level signal to the factory amp. No volume, tone, fade, or balance information exists. Just a fixed amplitude stereo audio signal. The head unit sends volume, tone, fade, and balance information to the factory amp to make these adjustments via digital CAN-BUS information. At this point if I wanted to contro, stuff via the factory head I needed to tap off the factory amp for signal.

So, I started by tapping off my factory amp using BTL's. The factory amp provides:

Front tweet highpassed at 3KHz 24db/octave
Front Mid bandpassed 50hz to 3KHz both 24db/octave
Sub lowpassed at 50Hz 24db/octave
Rear highpassed at 50Hz 24db/octave

I ran with this configuration for half a year. I obtained damn good results. Most would have stopped here. However, I desire perfection. The current system could not achieve the remaining 10% I want to obtain sonic bliss.

I needed to change things up to go with a three way front stage. I had to ditch the BTL solution since I was limited to the factory outputs from the amp. This includes EQ, time alignment, phase, and crossover points.

I ended up buying a PAC-Audio C2A-CHY adapter that intercepts the head units digital signaling to the factory amp and provides a 4 channel line level out with volume, fade, and balance information. Tone controls from the factory head are gone. I now use the RCA to balanced signal converters that came with the amps.

This allows me to get a clean, unprocessed, FULL RANGE signal to my amps. From here I can choose my own crossover points, time alignment, EQ curve, etc... I can now design my 3-way front stage as I see fit.

Ge0


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## jj_diamond

geek.


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## Ge0

jj_diamond said:


> geek.


Ahhh, **** you!!!

All is good JJ.

Ge0


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## Ge0

circa40 said:


> Bring it back to Dodge and tell them thats that way it should have came LOL!
> 
> I bet it sounds as great as it looks



Uhm, it sounds much better than it looks IMHO.

Ge0


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## Ge0

Now that I have had a warm day or two I figured it was time to get busy again. One thing that bugged me a little over the winter was some minor buzzes and rattles in my doors. Also, at times I swear I could pick out a resonance in my doors at certain notes. So, I decided to experiment a little.

Let's see if loading the baffle with 2 pounds of modeling clay does anything:

Picked this stuff up for $3.00 a pound at Michaels:


















Hmm, did seem to reduce vibration. Could I do better? Of course!!!

Adding some cheap weight:









Applying cheap weight to the clay:









Roll it up into a nice shape keeping the BB's inside:









Create thin layers to help hold BB's in:









Put the loaded clay back on:









Finished with this door. Just shy of 9 pounds of material added immediately surrounding the baffle:









One thing is for sure. The inner skin does not rattle nearly as much as it did prior to adding this mess. The real test will be when I put the door trim back on.

I'll roll with this for a few weeks until I get a day off to build a new baffle and try these out:









Also decided to try the next set of tweets, a set of made for Alpine Scanspeak 6000's:


















I have yet to do any detailed listening to these. But, for now I can tell they seem to be much more efficient. I hope I like them as much as the Dyn MD 102's. Their small form factor will reduce the floorspace the kick pods will take up.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Here is your chance to tell me how much I suck at fabrication.

I thought it was time to have a more attractive baffle to mount evaluation drivers to. The old one served its purpose, but, was a little ugly.

I made these new baffles. This was my first attempt at upolstering anything. Could look better but its not THAT bad, right???


















































































Tweets fit like a glove. I'll install with midrange (currently in vehicle) tomorrow.










Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Trying a few tweeter options for the time being:









Alpine Scan 6000 derivatives









Seas aluminum dome

















LPG's

So far the Scans are my favorite. However, the DYN's are pretty damn good competition and may win out after all.

Ge0


----------



## Remo

The subwoofer enclosure is impressive. I'm thinking of a similar project for my Expedition. Thanks for all the photos!


----------



## Ge0

Remo said:


> The subwoofer enclosure is impressive. I'm thinking of a similar project for my Expedition. Thanks for all the photos!


No problem man. Hopefully I gave you some ideas that would be unique to your vehicle. I'll keep them coming throughout the summer. I have numerous projects planned.

Ge0


----------



## Foglght

Can't wait to hear it in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Ge0

Foglght said:


> Can't wait to hear it in a couple of weeks.


You're gonna wet yourself. 

Ge0


----------



## Foglght

That will make for a messy Durango. I guess you aren't cool if you don't pee your pants.


----------



## CobraVin

cant believe i just noticed this thread, nice job Geo, its funny how a planned simple upgrade turns into a full blown system, it never fails

were like drunks that say oh ill just have a little sip of Dewars.......12 bottles of Johnnie Walker blue later


----------



## Ge0

CobraVin said:


> cant believe i just noticed this thread, nice job Geo, its funny how a planned simple upgrade turns into a full blown system, it never fails
> 
> were like drunks that say oh ill just have a little sip of Dewars.......12 bottles of Johnnie Walker blue later


Heh... Nice job on your install BTW. I'm gonna start my kicks in about a month. I have more speakers to try out down there and other fab work that's gotta come first.

Ge0


----------



## FoxPro5

Is there something in between the driver and the first mounting ring on those door baffles? 

Did you use any type of blocker/attenuator in the baffle build (like I used on mine)??? I saw the readings you got so I'm very curious.


----------



## Ge0

FoxPro5 said:


> Is there something in between the driver and the first mounting ring on those door baffles?
> 
> Did you use any type of blocker/attenuator in the baffle build (like I used on mine)??? I saw the readings you got so I'm very curious.



Forget that Fox. It all changed today, read on...

Ge0


----------



## FoxPro5

Ge0 said:


> Forget that Fox. It all changed today, read on...
> 
> Ge0


 Read what? 

Don't tell me....you got busted for hauling ammo in your doors?


----------



## Ge0

MUAH HAH HAH HAH!!!

The crazy **** I do during my work lunch hours...

I was going to post this last. However, I was so excited I decided to post it first.

Here is what I started with at 12:01PM










After removing the door trim panel (3 minutes) this is what I had to deal with. Looks simple enough. However, have you ever tried to remove Dynamat and Rammat?










Finally got it off (15 minutes).










Added Deflex pads (5 minutes). I know these don't do anything for midbass performance, but, they might come in handy if I ever decide to go two way again.










The ring(s) I constructed which will be detailed in a later post. Bottom plate 10" O.D. 3/4" thick. Upper rings 8.5" O.D 1/2" thick. Total of 4 layers of clear coat to seal them off.










Bolted on, fits like a glove (5 minutes):










Add modeling clay to seal off the rings (15 minutes):










Bolt on driver (3 minutes):


















Add foam sealing barrier between speaker and door trim panel (7 minutes):










Put door panel back on (5 minutes):










I'm at 52 minutes. Figured I had a few minutes to take a listen. Three minutes in I pissed myself. What KICK ASS midbass!!!

Well, nevertheless, including cleanup I was 7 minutes late!

Had the drivers crossed at 50Hz 24db/octave. Yes, I have a reason for this. The doors vibrate like hell but don't make a lot of noise. In the days to come I will work on re-enforcing them. Until then, the crossover has been raised to 70Hz at 12db/octave. No issues here.


Ge0


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio

Ge0 said:


> The crazy **** I do during my work lunch hours...


It just proves that we cannot help ourselves!!  

Car Audio is a highly addictive passion!! 

Looking good... glad it was all worth it!  

Mark


----------



## Ge0

Here are a few shots of the "behind the scenes" action for constructing the rings.










I recommend against using the roto-zip your parents gave you as an x-mas present to cut rings. You are better off using a jig saw. The problem is, with the included circle attachment, the router can wobble side to side as you cut. Makes your cuts uneven and not-so-smooth. Now, if there was any way to attach it to a better jig, we might be onto something. I purchased a 1/4" spiral cut Porter Cable router bit to use with the roto-zip. It fuggin chews through wood like its going out of style. But, lack of a decent circle jig kept the results far from stellar.

















Mind you, this is the first time I've ever tried making something with a router. A tad bit of inexperience comes into play as well. However, I soon learned my equipments limitations and was yearning for more.


Routed recesses so the t-nuts would sit flush to the surface of the ring










Bolt the loudspeaker on for a test fit.


















Apply 4 layers of clear coat to make them as moisture resistant as I can. 


















Mind you, these MDF rings are only a temporary solution that will be used to evaluate the Scan 18W midbasses. I have something a little different in mind for the weeks to come.









Man this speaker and riser assembly were a ***** to get out. 3 layers of deadener material plastered over the riser...










The first set of rings test fit to the door. Later, they will be glued together and sprayed with clear coat one more time once assembled.










Finally, the drivers side speaker is mounted:

















Ge0


----------



## chad

I find it amazing that you have that much room between your door card and inner door skin.


----------



## Ge0

chad said:


> I find it amazing that you have that much room between your door card and inner door skin.


Nice ain't it ?

Ge0


----------



## Paul1217

for your rattling door panels and plastic, something cheap that im going to experiment with in latex paint with quick crete in it. i got the idea from another forum. im in the process of deadening my car right now and havent gotten to my plastic panels yet. but the paint is rubber based like dynamatis, and the qucikcrete will add as much mass as you want, but it will get into all the nooks and cracks that mat won't. just my two cents. let us know if you try it.

great install by the way!


----------



## FoxPro5

Nice work. But I hate to tell you, Mr happy midbass guy...those Scan drivers are not made to play IB. Might as well scrap it and start all over creating sealed enclosures for them. Shoulda listened...tisk....tisk......

















 

You know I love my 7" Revs in the IB.


----------



## Ge0

Phuck off Foxboy...



Meant to run IB or not, they sound pretty fine.

Ge0


----------



## FoxPro5

Ge0 said:


> Phuck off Foxboy...
> 
> 
> 
> Meant to run IB or not, they sound pretty fine.
> 
> Ge0


With all that room you should be running a pair a side, there Midbaz Freeek  

And if you say your fab skills aren't so stellar then mine are comparatively god awful. You're doing damn well in my book!


----------



## chad

Ge0 said:


> Meant to run IB or not, they sound pretty fine.
> 
> Ge0


----------



## Ge0

So, had an itch to do something with my sub. My existing solution vibrates the rear end of my vehicle like an SOB at approx 65hz. The 10" sub gets loud but not awe inspiring. So, I thought I'd try something different.

Here is what I have currently:

























Here is an option for replacement:
























The fit isn't even close. At least not with the current configuration. Time to think outside of the box.

Trying to brace the weak and flimsy metal the sub enclosure bolts to:

















Improve padding around the enclosure to prevent hard surfaces from vibrating against each other:
























This will get me by for now until I can do something to fit a larger sub. Stay tuned...

Ge0


----------



## circa40

If you ever want to unload that "replacement" LMK 

Good progress BTW


----------



## Ge0

Getting rid of the modified factory sub enclosure here is what I got:









































































Pretty odd shape inside that cavity. I'd rather work with this space than try and reconstruct the entire plastic panel. Most people would lay glass down to follow the contours of the vehicle for the back side of an enclosure. They usually "wing it" on the front side not having a factory panel to deal with. I couldn't figure out how I would copy the contour of the metal side and mate it with the contour formed by the plastic side in a two part mold. I could grab the surface of each, but, how do I blend them together well so everything fits back behind the factory panel?

That is when I thought of an idea. What if I could get a mold of the entore cavity, both parts at once!!!

I first tried this:









The idea was kind of like those expanding foam formed packages for shipping. Blow foam into a plastic bag then let it cure around the item to be shipped. The problem, the bag did not want to stay put inside the cavity. For this to work, the mold "skin" would need to hold shape.

So, I devised this idea. Somewhat more time consuming but showed some promise:

























Read on...

Ge0


----------



## yeldak99

Wow, creative as all hell... I like.


----------



## Ge0

Start to blow some expanding foam in that hole:

























Let that dry and skin up then add a second layer:

























All filled up. Once this dries I should have a damn near perfect mold of the inside of the cavity. I made sure I stuffed the inner cavity with chunks of styrofoam where I did not already have foam padding to give me 1/2" of clearance all the way around. This will allow me to build up the fiberglass and make the new sub enclosure rigid as a mofo. I'll pop the mold once it dries, wrap it in aluminum foil, and glass over the back and sides. The front baffle will be a solid piece of 3/4" MDF. 

The final product SHOULD give me about 0.9 cu/ft to work with. Numerous sub options will work in this space, but, they will need to have shallow mounting depth. Typically subs that will work in this low of a volume are deep with huge magnet structures. Thinking about designing the enclosure to house a JL 12tw5. Its going to be 8+ months before its available, but, I'll have everything set up in anticipation. Still thinking I MIGHT be able to fit a 13tw5 in there. These are available now. We'll see.

Side note: In retrospect, I probably should have used the Great Stuff regular (red can) gap filler vs. the Window and Door stuff I used in this application. Gap filler dries in a more solid foam structure ready to be shaved and manipulated. The Door and Window stuff seems too smooshy even after it is fully cured. I asked the guy at Lowes about the difference between the two. He had no clue. Now I know...

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

circa40 said:


> If you ever want to unload that "replacement" LMK
> 
> Good progress BTW


I'll entertain offers. Sub is too heavy for this application.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

yeldak99 said:


> Wow, creative as all hell... I like.


Thanks. I haven't seen this done before. Let's see how it turns out.

Ge0


----------



## Slick

Interesting method George, I'v done some similar stuff in the past. Did you catch my post on your post in the general section? Getting a mold of each side (metal and plastic) and joining them wouldn't be to hard and you could get even more air by not needing a whole 1/2" of soft foam buffer zone all the way around. 

Now let's see that foam monster out from the truck?


----------



## Whiterabbit

so.

Given your budget, install constraints, and time horizon.

Why arent you considering the Phase Linear Aliante 12 Si?


----------



## mooch91

Ge0 said:


> You wouldn't begin to understand the hassle it is just to get out and work on the car for a few hours. I treasure the kids nap time . But, I have two very active little boys who aren't old enough yet to realize you can't chew on daddies router cord. Catch my drift
> 
> Then there is my wife: you're going to work on your f#$king car again?
> 
> Me: yep...
> 
> Her: geek...
> 
> Oh well....
> 
> Seriously though. Your life won't be over with a child in the house. It will be different, and for the better mind you. Things you found important before will take a back seat. But, you won't mind it too much. TIme tinkering with car audio will probably taper off.
> 
> My advice. Get away from the computer and take care of a lot of labor intensive things you want to do before the child is born. Also, buy your toys now!!! You'll have time to read and type later. You may not have as much time and money to tinker with your car after the fact.
> 
> Good luck and congrats!!!
> 
> Ge0



I can't tell you how true this is! Completing a build with a 16-mo-old is one of the toughest things. But I wouldn't trade him for the world.


----------



## Ge0

Whiterabbit said:


> so.
> 
> Given your budget, install constraints, and time horizon.
> 
> Why arent you considering the Phase Linear Aliante 12 Si?


Uhmmm, no longer in production?

I know that sub well. An friend of mine designed the original and patented it. He then sold the rights to manufacture them to a few companies.

I wasn't aware of anyone still manufacturing them.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Paul1217 said:


> for your rattling door panels and plastic, something cheap that im going to experiment with in latex paint with quick crete in it. i got the idea from another forum. im in the process of deadening my car right now and havent gotten to my plastic panels yet. but the paint is rubber based like dynamatis, and the qucikcrete will add as much mass as you want, but it will get into all the nooks and cracks that mat won't. just my two cents. let us know if you try it.
> 
> great install by the way!


Hmmm... Intriguing. Any pictures?

Ge0


----------



## syd-monster

Very inventive! 
With 0.9cf you could do a inverted mount??...
daft looks though.


----------



## Whiterabbit

the aliantes are available used all over the place.

Are you looking to buy only new?


----------



## zero7404

Ge0 said:


>


hey, where did you get this foam from ? can i have some details pls ? been looking all over for some good foam to close the gap between my speakers and door panels.


----------



## Ge0

zero7404 said:


> hey, where did you get this foam from ? can i have some details pls ? been looking all over for some good foam to close the gap between my speakers and door panels.


Go to your local hardware store or home improvement center and look for weather stripping. Used to seal off doors, windows, etc...

It comes in a variety of widths and thicknesses.

Ge0


----------



## zero7404

hey thank buddy....this is going to complete my install


----------



## nutxo

Ge0 said:


> Start to blow some expanding foam in that hole:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let that dry and skin up then add a second layer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All filled up. Once this dries I should have a damn near perfect mold of the inside of the cavity. I made sure I stuffed the inner cavity with chunks of styrofoam where I did not already have foam padding to give me 1/2" of clearance all the way around. This will allow me to build up the fiberglass and make the new sub enclosure rigid as a mofo. I'll pop the mold once it dries, wrap it in aluminum foil, and glass over the back and sides. The front baffle will be a solid piece of 3/4" MDF.
> 
> The final product SHOULD give me about 0.9 cu/ft to work with. Numerous sub options will work in this space, but, they will need to have shallow mounting depth. Typically subs that will work in this low of a volume are deep with huge magnet structures. Thinking about designing the enclosure to house a JL 12tw5. Its going to be 8+ months before its available, but, I'll have everything set up in anticipation. Still thinking I MIGHT be able to fit a 13tw5 in there. These are available now. We'll see.
> 
> Side note: In retrospect, I probably should have used the Great Stuff regular (red can) gap filler vs. the Window and Door stuff I used in this application. Gap filler dries in a more solid foam structure ready to be shaved and manipulated. The Door and Window stuff seems too smooshy even after it is fully cured. I asked the guy at Lowes about the difference between the two. He had no clue. Now I know...
> 
> Ge0


Im getting ready to do my camaro and gave a lot of thought to how to get molds I needed. I think Im gonna try using foil for release. Then line it with fleece and use stucco lath to hold the shape. Then brush it with resin and let it dry.

Think thatll work?


----------



## Ge0

nutxo said:


> Im getting ready to do my camaro and gave a lot of thought to how to get molds I needed. I think Im gonna try using foil for release. Then line it with fleece and use stucco lath to hold the shape. Then brush it with resin and let it dry.
> 
> Think thatll work?


BELIEVE ME. I am no expert here. However, I can't see why not. Are you going to bust the stucco out when done?

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

zero7404 said:


> hey thank buddy....this is going to complete my install


Not a problem. That was a simple one .

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

The mold completely dry, or so I thought...









Start shaving it down for extraction:

























All shaved up:








Some of the foam in the center of the sub opening was still tacky once I cut the top layer off. Hmmm...

Chief engineer says its a go!!!









Start the removal process:









Removed:
















Noticed the foam that packed deep into the cavities was not totally dry. I let it set out until this all skinned up

After a full day outside I moved it inside to work on. Woke up the next morning to find this:








DOOOOHHHH... If the wife sees this she's gonna kill me. Any tips for getting expanding foam out of carpet?

The very ends did not fill out like I had hoped. Looks like I'll need to touch those up manually. I wonder if I couldn't use floral foam to fill in the missing pieces, then go over it all with a layer of thin plastic film spray glued to it. I'll then foil over it the plastic film outer skin and start fiberglassing.

Stay tuned.

Ge0


----------



## yeldak99

its a long shot, but try mayonaise to get that outta the carpet.


----------



## Ge0

While I'm fuggin around with the new enclosure I decided to work with what I had. One thing that drives me nuts is how much the enclosure vibrates when serious bass notes hit. This causes the enclosure to slap against the decorative trim panel (when put back in place) and make a hell of a racket.

I did some investigation and found one unsupported corner of the enclosure would flex nearly 4mm (.16 inch) at times. How could I brace this and hold it still? I know:
























This holds the sub enclosure still. However, the enclosure is now more tightly coupled to the vehicle. New rattles show up. However, they are no where near as bad as before.

Found that the seat belt height adjuster in the back of the vehicle was a major offender. Since I have child safety seats back there and NOBODY ever uses them, I taped it down to hold it in place. I'll soon just remove it. Another major source of vibration gone:









Note, with the exception of making the sub enclosure mold, all work being done in the parking lot during my lunch hours at work!!!

Stay tuned for more.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

yeldak99 said:


> its a long shot, but try mayonaise to get that outta the carpet.


WTF??? ROTFL!!!

Thanks,

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

A reminder to always be careful and protect your gear while working on your vehicle. Was showing a buddy some of my work when he knocked over my sub assembly (that I had ghetto rigged into place) by accident:

















Punched a hole in the surround of a brand new $130 sub and nicked the heat sink up on my $600 Zapco DC REF 500.1

Live and learn...

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Some of you who have been following my progress saw the experiment I ran with BB's and modeling clay. This worked out extremely well. But, since I swapped out the XS65's for the Scan 18W's I haven't used it.

No sense in letting a good 8 pound slurry of modeling clay and BB's go to waste. 









Treated one door with this. The other does not have it yet. I used to have a nasty resonance in both doors at 100Hz. Guess which door no longer has this resonance? You guessed it. Not sure of the new resonant point of the BB loaded door, but, it is definitely lower. Potentially outside of the 63Hz to 300Hz pass band???

Ge0


----------



## yeldak99

Ge0 said:


> WTF??? ROTFL!!!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ge0


I know, it sounds crazy, but its one of those home remedy deals. I know it works to get grease out of my hair, figured it might be worth a shot.


----------



## Ge0

yeldak99 said:


> I know, it sounds crazy, but its one of those home remedy deals. I know it works to get grease out of my hair, figured it might be worth a shot.


I'll make sure I steal a few packets from the restaraunt tomorrow!!!

Seriously.

Thanks

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Whiterabbit said:


> so.
> 
> Given your budget, install constraints, and time horizon.
> 
> Why arent you considering the Phase Linear Aliante 12 Si?


Can't find one. Been looking for a week. However, I think I found something else that will work. How about a Critical Mass Ls122?

Ge0


----------



## Foster

I've seen the use of modeling clay before but the addition of BB's is quite interesting... I may have to try that out.

Nice job on the woofer, hope that mold works out for you. When I saw the bag I thought you were going to use plaster! Did you consider any other forming materials?


----------



## Ge0

Slick said:


> Interesting method George, I'v done some similar stuff in the past. Did you catch my post on your post in the general section? Getting a mold of each side (metal and plastic) and joining them wouldn't be to hard and you could get even more air by not needing a whole 1/2" of soft foam buffer zone all the way around.
> 
> Now let's see that foam monster out from the truck?


Jason,

To be honest I only began to understand what you were talking about a few days ago. Great idea. But, I don't think it will work in this instance. I need to add glass from the inside to preserve the overall size of the outer surface of the enclosure on the outside. I could make two separate molds as you suggest. However, I can't see being able to reach up inside it to join the two surfaces together. Some of the compartment is damn tight.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Foster said:


> I've seen the use of modeling clay before but the addition of BB's is quite interesting... I may have to try that out.
> 
> Nice job on the woofer, hope that mold works out for you. When I saw the bag I thought you were going to use plaster! Did you consider any other forming materials?


Thanks for the complements. Seriously. If you need to add weight and conform to odd shapes, this solution can't be beat for the price.

I did consider plaster as a forming agent. I have tons of it lying around due to projects on the house. However, I see this being brittle and breaking easy on its own. However, had an idea the other day. I have some screen door material laying around too. Say I lay down a leak barrier with plastic bag or tin foil like I did. However, then lay a layer of screen material inside after that. Then I go through and coat the screen material with plaster? Would it re-enforce it enough to keep it from breaking apart?

But, I have chosen the route I have. I need to stick with it. Still thinking about finishing off my foam mold with plaster. This will allow me shape and sand it with ease.

BTW: You are from Michigan. Are you free next Saturday? We are having a big meet in Livonia on the 3rd starting at 11:00am. Contact me if interested.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

FoxPro5 said:


> With all that room you should be running a pair a side, there Midbaz Freeek
> 
> And if you say your fab skills aren't so stellar then mine are comparatively god awful. You're doing damn well in my book!


Thanks. I respect your opinions and compliments.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

mooch91 said:


> I can't tell you how true this is! Completing a build with a 16-mo-old is one of the toughest things. But I wouldn't trade him for the world.


AMEN brother. Oldest is almost 3. Youngest is 18 months. Try working on your car while letting them run wild. I dare you!!!

Ge0


----------



## mooch91

Ge0 said:


> AMEN brother. Oldest is almost 3. Youngest is 18 months. Try working on your car while letting them run wild. I dare you!!!
> 
> Ge0



Tried to stack a rock wall outside today... the rocks just wouldn't stay where I put them!


----------



## FoxPro5

Ge0 said:


> I did consider plaster as a forming agent. I have tons of it lying around due to projects on the house. However, I see this being brittle and breaking easy on its own. However, had an idea the other day. I have some screen door material laying around too. Say I lay down a leak barrier with plastic bag or tin foil like I did. However, then lay a layer of screen material inside after that. Then I go through and coat the screen material with plaster? Would it re-enforce it enough to keep it from breaking apart?


Wouldn't plaster eventually crack due to the vibration?? 

That BB idea really is a good one. I was thinking of doing the same with some fishing sinkers, but never got around to it.


----------



## Slick

Ge0 said:


> Jason,
> 
> To be honest I only began to understand what you were talking about a few days ago. Great idea. But, I don't think it will work in this instance. I need to add glass from the inside to preserve the overall size of the outer surface of the enclosure on the outside. I could make two separate molds as you suggest. However, I can't see being able to reach up inside it to join the two surfaces together. Some of the compartment is damn tight.
> 
> Ge0



You won't have to join from the inside with glass...do it with dowels or something and do it through the woofer hole, that will be plenty big to reach up through, it only takes a handful of dowels to keep them spaced properly apart. Once you have them joined with dowels take it out of the truck and join them with glass, you won't have much of a gap to fill in most areas and if your afraid of loosing your outside dimension just do a temporary fill from the inside through the woofer hole with tape/cardboard etc then glass from the outside.....remember the walls your glassing outside the truck are the side walls, they shouldn't be interfering with anything in the truck anyway...it's the front and back walls that touch the truck/plastic panel and those you will have already made a copy of from the actual truck and plastic panel...the side walls are just to space the front (plastic panel copy) the proper distance from the back (copy of the truck).


----------



## Ge0

FoxPro5 said:


> Wouldn't plaster eventually crack due to the vibration??
> 
> That BB idea really is a good one. I was thinking of doing the same with some fishing sinkers, but never got around to it.


Plaster would only be used for the mold, not the final housing.

I looked into fishing sinkers as well since they are lead and more dense. However, my local shops only sold small bags of them for like $3.00 a pop. WAYYY too expensive.

Another option is lead buck shot. But, again, more expensive per pound than BB's.

Oh, BTW: You need to keep that Avatar around for a while. What a perfect fit!!! heh heh...

Ge0


----------



## FoxPro5

Ge0 said:


> Plaster would only be used for the mold, not the final housing.
> 
> I looked into fishing sinkers as well since they are lead and more dense. However, my local shops only sold small bags of them for like $3.00 a pop. WAYYY too expensive.
> 
> Another option is lead buck shot. But, again, more expensive per pound than BB's.
> 
> Oh, BTW: You need to keep that Avatar around for a while. What a perfect fit!!! heh heh...
> 
> Ge0


Nah son, I'm talkin' about scavenging a few handfuls from everyone's tackle boxes over a period of time. I figure if I borrow enough, steal a few here and there....over time I'd get a good stock going. 

Superrrrrrrr! Thanks!


----------



## Ge0

Todays work. Re-enforce that floppy sheet metal inner door panel.

Steel 1/2" open box bar stock purchased at home depot.



























The idea... Sheet metal at the edges of the inner door skin is firm and stable. Sheet metal on the middle surface is flimsy. This steel won't flex for nothing. Screwing it to all the thin sheet metal and then to the stronger sheet metal holds everything more still under high distress.

The opposite door:




































And of course, add more BB loaded modeling clay to this side:


















Had a quick listen once I was done and liked the results. Bass seems tighter and more defined. Didn't have a chance to make comparative measurements today to see what this actaully did. Ran out of time. Perhaps tomorrow...

Ge0


----------



## FoxPro5

Cool! How long is that bar? Where exactly at HD did you find it?


----------



## Ge0

FoxPro5 said:


> Cool! How long is that bar? Where exactly at HD did you find it?


Hey Lemmiwinks (if you know South park you know this Hamster  ).

The bar stock comes in 48" lengths. These were cut to approximately 3ft long. Why that matters???

You can find them mid way down the hardware section next to the aluminum bar stock.

I plan on adding more as time allows. Why not make the inner door skin as rigid as possible?

Ge0


----------



## FoxPro5

Ge0 said:


> Hey Lemmiwinks (if you know South park you know this Hamster  ).
> 
> The bar stock comes in 48" lengths. These were cut to approximately 3ft long. Why that matters???
> 
> You can find them mid way down the hardware section next to the aluminum bar stock.
> 
> I plan on adding more as time allows. Why not make the inner door skin as rigid as possible?
> 
> Ge0


Sounds good, puddin' pop. 

I'm going to be copying this because you are a genius. 

It's not the inner door skin, it's the driver mounting surface. I tell ya...


----------



## Ge0

FoxPro5 said:


> Sounds good, puddin' pop.
> 
> I'm going to be copying this because you are a genius.
> 
> It's not the inner door skin, it's the driver mounting surface. I tell ya...


Not a geneous John, just another nutbag. Thanks for the complement though.

Hmm... I can't seem to recall if Lemmiwinks was a hamster or a lab rat. Perhaps a Gerbil? Regardless, his travels were treacherous.

Ge0


----------



## MIAaron

Don't ignore your inner kindergartener! Paper mache is great for making molds. If the space is too small to reach into, maybe it's time for Jr. to learn paper mache as well.  Add a couple layers and then it will be rigid enough to resin the inside. Just pour the resin inside the enclosure and twist the entire enclosure around by hand to get a full interior coat.


----------



## Ge0

MIAaron said:


> Don't ignore your inner kindergartener! Paper mache is great for making molds. If the space is too small to reach into, maybe it's time for Jr. to learn paper mache as well.  Add a couple layers and then it will be rigid enough to resin the inside. Just pour the resin inside the enclosure and twist the entire enclosure around by hand to get a full interior coat.


Aaron,

We really need to gwet together over a beer sometimes. You seem to have some good ideas.

Question though. Won't the resin soak the dried paper mache mold and tend to warp it?

Ge0


----------



## MIAaron

Beers it is. 

I'll try and find an old article I had on different paper mache tips. It used different materials and glues to attain different properties, like moisture resistance. The times I've done it I didn't have a big issue, but they weren't things where a little warping really had much of an effect.


----------



## Ge0

MIAaron said:


> Beers it is.
> 
> I'll try and find an old article I had on different paper mache tips. It used different materials and glues to attain different properties, like moisture resistance. The times I've done it I didn't have a big issue, but they weren't things where a little warping really had much of an effect.


A little warping is not that much of a concern here either. Getting wet and totally collapsing is .

Ge0


----------



## ZoNtO

Deserves a bump for a great read and promoting the practice of dampening your door panels! Hopefully I can get mine somewhat as rigid as you did, stupid Civic stock grills are screwing me though....


----------



## Wayne-o

Ge0 said:


> Plaster would only be used for the mold, not the final housing.
> 
> I looked into fishing sinkers as well since they are lead and more dense. However, my local shops only sold small bags of them for like $3.00 a pop. WAYYY too expensive.
> 
> Another option is lead buck shot. But, again, more expensive per pound than BB's.
> 
> Oh, BTW: You need to keep that Avatar around for a while. What a perfect fit!!! heh heh...
> 
> Ge0





FoxPro5 said:


> Nah son, I'm talkin' about scavenging a few handfuls from everyone's tackle boxes over a period of time. I figure if I borrow enough, steal a few here and there....over time I'd get a good stock going.
> 
> Superrrrrrrr! Thanks!


Hell guys...need lead?...easy way to get that guys…go to places that do tires…like Costco or Pep Boys if you know anyone there…shoot might even get them to give it to you. Have them collect the ‘OLD Tire weights’ off the tire installs. You’ll never run out of lead. At that point you can melt it down quickly with breathing using a breathing apparatus of course if you chose too and you have an ample supply of fresh clean lead.


----------



## Wayne-o

MIAaron said:


> Beers it is.
> 
> I'll try and find an old article I had on different paper mache tips. It used different materials and glues to attain different properties, like moisture resistance. The times I've done it I didn't have a big issue, but they weren't things where a little warping really had much of an effect.


you could use a thin tissue paper like the tissue paper used in gifts a single soak then hit it with a low temp heat gun or hair drier for a bit till it cured and dried and move on then have a positive then make a new negative from that where you'd have the max size you could go with the new ridged positive don’t know...sitting at work with time to kill today...


----------



## Project_dog

Those are some nice pictures. Got love those Durango's


----------



## Ge0

Project_dog said:


> Those are some nice pictures. Got love those Durango's


Thanks.

It really is a nice vehicle to install a sound system in.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Muahhh HAH HAH HAH... He says in a deap and evil voice...




























Critcal Mass Ls122. More to come...

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Also did some experimentation with alternate tweeter placement. I've always thought it would be ashamed to waste that huge DEEP Dodge dash. Imaging of these loaner tweets is to die for here. Path lengths are actually greater then if kick mounted as far back as possible by 3 inches...




























Now, how to blend these in. I'll want to recess mount them vs. Flush mount or mount on top of the missing dash panel. I have an idea. The tweeters would mount perfectly in a set of these air vents. Now I need to track down a spare pair:










Ge0


----------



## Ge0

So, I talked it over with my installer









He agrees we should mount the tweeters in a spare set of air vent pods on top of the dash vent panel as shown earlier

























I was thinking of a way to get the right hole cutout size for the tweeter vents. I tried a few methods

























Until I came up with this idea









More on this in a few days once I get the parts I need in to start the job.

Ge0


----------



## tyroneshoes

Looks great. Very creative process. Let me know your thoughts on the CM sub, looks like a great fit.


----------



## Ge0

tyroneshoes said:


> Looks great. Very creative process. Let me know your thoughts on the CM sub, looks like a great fit.


Thanks, will do.

Ge0


----------



## capnxtreme

That is an awesome idea for the tweeters.

I think you are crazy with your doors, but I bet it sounds awesome.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Fiberglassing or bondo'ng them in? Here's a better material that has the same properties as ABS. Post #3

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/fabrication/85350-how-make-factory-bezel.html


----------



## Ge0

t3sn4f2 said:


> Fiberglassing or bondo'ng them in? Here's a better material that has the same properties as ABS. Post #3
> 
> http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/fabrication/85350-how-make-factory-bezel.html


I saw this thread when you posted a link to it yesterday. VERY interesting. I would either use this material or the material mentioned in the A-pillar thread in the tutorials section.

But, not for the tweets. I believe all I'll need to do is cut a hole in the dash to fit the vent assembly. I'll need a substance that sticks to plastic once I start on my kick panels next week.

Ge0


----------



## Fran82

Ge0 said:


> For the most part this worked very well. The only problem. The clipping mechanisms that hold the door panel to the inner door skin leave gapping holes between the cavity formed between the outer and inner door skins, and, the the cavity formed by the inner door skin and door panel. Air pressure escapes from the first cavity and into the second cavity. This makes the door panel rattle like a son-of-a-*****. You can feel air whisping from all seams. I wish I could find a way to seal off the two cavities better. However, every attempt made so far prevents me from installing the door panel.
> 
> Ge0


Dodge didn't help car audio folks out any with that door panel attachment design. I've been trying to figure out how you might be able to slow down the air movement, and I keep thinking maybe a couple layers of ensolite with a slit cut in it so the door panel hooks can still go through but hopefully seal a little better. Then a layer or two of that weatherstripping foam around the edges of the rectangle cutouts on the door metal. You should be able to get the panel on, and the foam and ensolite should slow down air movement out of the holes. 
Another option might be a rubber grommet, like the ones between the door and the A-pillar, for running wires through. If you could find one that fit into that rectangular cutout and then sealed up the back side of it, it would act as a sleeve. The door panel could still engage, but it would be sealed off from the metal door skin. Did that make any sense?

Hmmmm...


----------



## Fran82

Also, just read through this again, and what's going on with your front setup? I saw baffles for kickpanels with midrange and tweet, now you're moving on to tweeters in the dash. Are you giving up on the 3 way setup, or is the midrange staying in the kick?

Where did all the talk about paper mache come from? Are you trying to figure out how to mold that enclosure? Can't you just glass over the foam, then cut the foam out of it?


----------



## Ge0

Fran82 said:


> Dodge didn't help car audio folks out any with that door panel attachment design. I've been trying to figure out how you might be able to slow down the air movement, and I keep thinking maybe a couple layers of ensolite with a slit cut in it so the door panel hooks can still go through but hopefully seal a little better. Then a layer or two of that weatherstripping foam around the edges of the rectangle cutouts on the door metal. You should be able to get the panel on, and the foam and ensolite should slow down air movement out of the holes.
> Another option might be a rubber grommet, like the ones between the door and the A-pillar, for running wires through. If you could find one that fit into that rectangular cutout and then sealed up the back side of it, it would act as a sleeve. The door panel could still engage, but it would be sealed off from the metal door skin. Did that make any sense?
> 
> Hmmmm...


Fran,

I posted pictures of what I had done with the door clip holes already. I just can't find the damn post!

Anyway, what I did was cut pieces of ensolite about 1" larger than the perimeter of the hole. I glued these over the hole. Next, a second layer just to make a thick barrier. Then, I cut a thin horizontal slit in it where the door card mounting ear would stick through. Seemed to work out fairly well. I can't think of a better solution. I don't think your idea of using weather stripping will work for most of them. There is no mating surface for the stripping to seal to.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Fran82 said:


> Also, just read through this again, and what's going on with your front setup? I saw baffles for kickpanels with midrange and tweet, now you're moving on to tweeters in the dash. Are you giving up on the 3 way setup, or is the midrange staying in the kick?
> 
> Where did all the talk about paper mache come from? Are you trying to figure out how to mold that enclosure? Can't you just glass over the foam, then cut the foam out of it?


That is the bad part about splitting DIYMA up into numerous sub forums. Thoughts get fragmented. I explained a little about why I moved the tweets up top in this post:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39704

To make a long story short, they seem to work out just as well on top as they did below. If not better. That, and I won't have some structure eating up room in the foot well. Nobody is going to step on or kick my speakers.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

OK, here's sum more updates.

Finding that tweeter aiming is not absolute critical up here since response is pretty much the same 15 degrees off axis as it is straight on.

















Now onto the vent pods.









































Couldn't ask for a better fit. Eventually I'll track down some color matched paint and spray the grills of the tweets to blend them in better. Thinking about a satin Aluminum finish for the metal mounting ring. The satin aluminum is used throughout the dash assembly for accent pieces.

Trying this out one more time prior to actually cutting holes in a $90 defroster vent cover:

















The angle the tweets sit at on the dash is a little shallower than I first thought it would be. They fire more up towards the windscreen vs. straight on. I'll tinker with this for a while, but, may end up modifying the vent pods to angle the tweets at a steeper angle so they face more direct towards me.

That's all for now. Hoping to actually mount these with the few hours I have available to work on this tonight.

Ge0


----------



## niceguy

Amazing fit...I can't believe it worked that well....I'm still firing my large format tweets up through the factory dash speaker openings of my Grand Voyager toward the windshield...

Jeremy


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio

Looking great, Ge0
As you said in your other thread, they fit amazingly well!... look even better when they're in that $90.00 dash piece! 

Mark


----------



## Ge0

OK, I have a renewed appreciation for those who install for a living. Five hours of labor just to mount tweeters and more work has yet to be done. I just wish I had more money than time...

Here we go.

Locating the tweeter pods. A perfect 30 degree angle. What can I say, I'm an engineer and I'm anal...


















I'm sure you think I'm a woosie for making such a big deal of this, but, CUT THAT HOLE!!!

















The hole I made was undersized. Better to subtract material than try to add. Spend an hour per side to trim to the perfect size. Mount the pods:

















Now, although the tweeters are small they still require a bit of mounting depth. Gotta cut an access hole in the plastic surface below. Since it is covered up by the trim panel a rough cut will do. Nervous about having a high speed diamond cutting blade so close to my windscreen!

































OK, have room to mount the tweets now. Install them and see what happens.









































The stock pod has a slight curvature to it on the mounting flange. That's why you se a slight gap where the pod meets the dash surface. I've consulted with an engineer at work and we've determined that the slight warp in the flange can be corrected if I bake the pods at 140C for 30 minutes with a fixture attached to straighten it out. Hmmm, yet another project.

Ge0


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio

They look great!

Nothing wrong with being anal on a project like this. 

I hope the "fix" for the flange works out ok.

Looking forward to the next installment...

Mark


----------



## Fran82

Looks good. Nice work. 
The tweeters do seem to point a little more at the windshield, huh?


----------



## xcoldricex

ahhhhhhh makes me want to start cutting up my car again!!! looks great ge0, can't wait to hear it in person.


----------



## Ge0

Fran82 said:


> Looks good. Nice work.
> The tweeters do seem to point a little more at the windshield, huh?


Sound will strike the windshield at a slight angle. Not what I wanted but I'll see if I can work with it and control the reflections.

I may end up modifying the pods slightly to angle the tweets more at me. But, that is the easy part. The labor intensive stuff is done.

Ge0


----------



## Fran82

Ge0 said:


> I may end up modifying the pods slightly to angle the tweets more at me. But, that is the easy part. The labor intensive stuff is done.
> 
> Ge0


Exactly what I was thinking. Now it's just a matter of adjusting to fit what you're looking for. They look nice in there, and the tweets look like they fit perfect.


----------



## Ge0

Problem with the vent pods lifting up on one corner solved. Thank God TPO is very soft/compliant plastic.



















Next, the kick panel pods...

Ge0


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio

Very simple (and especially very cheap!) fix!

Had a chance to listen to them yet?

Can't wait to see what you do with the kicks!

Mark


----------



## Ge0

xcoldricex said:


> ahhhhhhh makes me want to start cutting up my car again!!! looks great ge0, can't wait to hear it in person.


Any time guy. If you're ever up my way we could arrange something over my lunch hour again.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

FrankstonCarAudio said:


> Very simple (and especially very cheap!) fix!
> 
> Had a chance to listen to them yet?
> 
> Can't wait to see what you do with the kicks!
> 
> Mark


I had the system tuned to my liking back when the tweets fired straight at me. I think this was the best I've heard yet in this car. However, need to re-tune now that the wavefront strikes the window more head on. I hear some peakiness that wasn't there before.

Nothing the Zapco amps and a good ear can't fix though.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Done futzing around for now. Still need to do a few this and that's to completre the job, but, for now it's looking pretty peachy.

I was geeked. I rushed to install the dash vent assembly before work this morning.









With fill flash to lighten things up.









The finished product





































Well, how does it look?

Ge0


----------



## Kenny_Cox

Looks killer! How does it sound?


----------



## capnxtreme

I love it. How does it sound?


----------



## Fran82

Awesome. Chrysler factory option. Did you paint the tweets or are those different ones?


----------



## Ge0

The tweets sound phenominal mounted up high on the dash. I had a short tuning and listening session during my lunch hour today. I don't know how, but, stage width on some songs now extends about a foot or two beyond the side borders of my vehicle where it did not do this before. Stage height stays nice and consistently high whereas this was dependant on leg position / movement before. All in all, me like!!!

These are the same tweets shown in earlier photos. I took a dremel tool with wire brush attachment to them last night to strip off the old and scuffed up paint. Next, I used the buffing wheel attachment to polish them up a little. I intend on clear coating or painting them. However, before I do so, I want to find a perfect match for the rest of the satin sliver interior accent pieces.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Kenny_Cox said:


> Looks killer! How does it sound?


Get your butt down to our next meet and find out for yourself .

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Ladies and gentleman, meet FRANKENPODs!!!

The idea is to create fiberglass pods for my Dynaudio MD142 midranges.

I tried to create slim and slender rings for the mids that will consume less space for the kick pods. Cutting went fine, however, when it came time to bolt the drivers to them I ran into problems:








They split when I tried to screw in threaded inserts.

So, what to do? What material is easy to work with and will hold up to threaded inserts at such a small ring width?

















The result constructing new rings:









Mids installed to evaluate aiming angles:

































Thinking about how I'd construct pods. Hmm... Can't do a floor mold due to unmentioned reasons. Let's try something else:

















Secure and bolt in the drivers:

































This is where my install currently lies. By the way, I've tuned this in to sound better than anything I've ever experienced in a vehicle (at lower volumes). Albeit, there are limitations to the Dyn midranges. These limitations may make me to look elsewhere for a midrange, but for now I've got it 90% there...:









I've procured an alternate set of midranges to compare against. The Dyns sound stressed at high volume. I like to kick it up once in a while so in the back of my mind this bugs me. Next up is the evaluation of a set of Scan 12m midranges. keep tuned...

Ge0


----------



## 00RedRT

Love the tweeters installation. As for the Dyn domes, I'd flush mount them in the kickpanels and call it a day. Those sound so good off-axis, I'd save your floor room. Either way, great thread and pics!


----------



## Ge0

00RedRT said:


> Love the tweeters installation. As for the Dyn domes, I'd flush mount them in the kickpanels and call it a day. Those sound so good off-axis, I'd save your floor room. Either way, great thread and pics!


I tried like hell to make them work. But, I want to cross them over much lower than what they are comfortable with (no higher than 400hz). The Dyn's will do this fine up until you exceed approxiamtely 96dB. After that they get raspy and sound too stressed. If I cross them up near 900Hz they are perfect. However, at this point why use a midrange at all? The tweets come in at around 2.5KHz.

I want as much of the vocal range as I can covered by the midranges and at volume up to approx 106dB. The Dyns can't cut it for this application. BELIEVE ME, I wanted it to work.

So, I thought I'd at least try the Scans to see how they compare.

Ge0


----------



## V~Train

"Hello all,

I noticed no Gen 2 Durango installs here so I thought I'd share some of what I am doing.

What I do with a vehicle has been scaled back quite a bit since my two sons were born a few years ago. I no longer have the time to devote to full blown systems and crazy installs anymore. However, I DO love my tunes.

I can't consume my cargo space with custom sub enclosures and equipment racks. I need this space to pack strollers, toys, etc... Also, this space needs to be durable. I don't want loose cargo damaging something I've spent weeks fabricating."





I love it. this "simple install" has turned into something that is quite fantastic. this car audio bug infects us to the core. it will never be a simple install. as long as there is any free time or any extra cash. there will never be a simple install.

Props Ge0 this is nice work.


----------



## Ge0

V~Train said:


> "Hello all,
> 
> I noticed no Gen 2 Durango installs here so I thought I'd share some of what I am doing.
> 
> What I do with a vehicle has been scaled back quite a bit since my two sons were born a few years ago. I no longer have the time to devote to full blown systems and crazy installs anymore. However, I DO love my tunes.
> 
> I can't consume my cargo space with custom sub enclosures and equipment racks. I need this space to pack strollers, toys, etc... Also, this space needs to be durable. I don't want loose cargo damaging something I've spent weeks fabricating."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love it. this "simple install" has turned into something that is quite fantastic. this car audio bug infects us to the core. it will never be a simple install. as long as there is any free time or any extra cash. there will never be a simple install.
> 
> Props Ge0 this is nice work.


Thanks for the complements. When I started this thread it was going to be simple. However, things soon escallated. I've been wondering if there is a way to change the title for the last 9 months. This **** is just getting out of hand.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

When you can't leave well enough alone you do stuff like this on your lunch hour:



















The little Rockford Fosgate shallow mount 10" was doing just fine. However, I got bored. That, and bigger is better right? So, let's see how this LS122 works...

Ge0


----------



## STI<>GTO

Sweet!

Kicks finished yet, and are the 12m's in there?


----------



## Ge0

Yes, yes, and yes...

I haven't been around much the last two weeks since I'm making use of the summer and fabricating up a ****load of stuff. I have Terabytes of pictures to share. Just be patient.

If I make it to the meet on Sunday I'll show ya what is up.

Ge0


----------



## Fran82

Ge0 said:


> When you can't leave well enough alone you do stuff like this on your lunch hour:


You sure do get a lot of work done during your lunch hour.


----------



## Ge0

Fran82 said:


> You sure do get a lot of work done during your lunch hour.


Yep... Many of my co-workers think I'm a nut case. A few others with young children understand.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Ok, here we go. A rather lengthy post demonstrating how I constructed my kick panels.

Start by cutting some rings that fit the dimensions of my drivers. How you do this is arbitrary. For smaller rings I prefer a circle cutter on my drill press vs. a router. I'm going to recess mount the midranges so I left some extra space beyond the outer dimensions of the driver to accomodate a grill. I think I went 1/2" oversized on the outside diameter.









Now, for the recess flange. This material that can be found at just about any hardware store:









The edging material came in 1" strips. I want a 1/2". So, cut it in half:

















The edging has heat activated adhesive backing. Apply it to the rings:

































I did not have my Scan 12m's by the time I started constructing the kick pods so I mocked them up using a set of spare drivers and some modeling clay:

















Getting tired of fighting with this damn picture count limitation per post. Going to bed. More tomorrow...

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Now, getting an idea on how I want to aim the mids and what "floor space" I'll need.









Fiberglass does not stick to Polypropylene Plastic very good. So, I decided to bolt this piece of MDF to my kick panels. I know resin will soak into MDF:

















Setting up to take the floor mold:

































Double check marker outline against the size of the midrange:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j195/gerbermultit00l/Durango%20kick%20pods/DSCN8842.jpg

Get supplies ready. US Composites Resin rocks. I found it goes on MUCH smoother than el-cheapo Bondo type products, has a longer work time, and costs damn near the same after shipping:
[IMG]http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j195/gerbermultit00l/Durango%20kick%20pods/DSCN8936.jpg

Start laying in the glass. I used alternating layers of chop mat and stranded mat. A total of 8 layers for the base:

















I found it important to redraw the marker line after applying the first 4 layers of mat. That way I could see the line clear through to the final layer.

More to come...

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Always make sure to wear a vapor resistant mask and REAL old clothes you don't give a **** about when working with fiberglass resin:









All 8 layers done:

















Fortunately I heavily coated the masking tape with PAM cooking spray prior to laying down the mat. The dried floor molds popped out with ease:









Take the dremel cutting wheel and trim off the excess at the line:

















Test fit the midrange/ring assembly:









Use the laser pointer to confirm aiming. At this point modeling clay and pipe straps are holding the rings in place:









Suspend the rings in place using wooden dowel:

















Hold on tight, more to come...

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Now that the rings are fixed in place I need to trim the floor mold into the final shape I want:

























Tape off the inner ring surface so resin does not muck up the mating surface with the midrange or the fit of the speaker grill:









Now it is time to stretch the fleece over the assembly. Fleece was glued in place using flexible CA adhesive (super glue) purchased at my local wood working supply store:

















Coat them in resin:









Start adding alternate layers of chop mat and cloth to the hardend resined fleece:

























If you'll notice at this point, all fiberglass work has been contained to the MDF backing surface. This is for good reason. Fiberglass resign does not bond to plastic for ****. If you stress the joint it WILL break loose. More on this later.

I forgot to add earlier that I have NEVER built kick pods before. This is only my second fiberglassing experience (the first is documented in my sub enclosure mod earlier in this thread). I read through the fabrication and tutorials sections of DIYMA and asked tons of questions to come up with my own unique solution. Thanks go out to Glassman, Bing, DAWGDAN, White Rabbit, and others.

This is enough for tonight. Hope to finish up the entry to this thread tomorrow...

Ge0


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio

Hey Ge0,
I'm watching all this very closely.. can't wait for the next installment in... "The Fibreglass Man in the Weird Shirt!"

Keep it comin' 

Mark


----------



## Big_Valven

I know it's come a long way, but I like the sub box you've done. I'm quite a fan of OEM mods


----------



## Ge0

Big_Valven said:


> I know it's come a long way, but I like the sub box you've done. I'm quite a fan of OEM mods


Thank you sir. I've updated that too. But, let me get my kick pod build log out of the way first .

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Finally got the actual midranges I will be using in the mail today. Pretty aren't they:

















Trim up the excess glass work and grind down with the dremel sanding wheel to regain the pods outer shape. This was real messy and took about 2 hours:

















The pods are 8 layers thick all around. Strong as hell on the surfaces. However, I feel the corners could use some re-enforcement. So, how about a bond milk shake mixed with short 1/4" strands of fiberglass to stiffen them up?

























Pour this slurry of stuff inside and let it ooze into the corners:

















All this work. Now its time to see if my calculations were correct. I was targeting between 0.7 and 1.0 L for the enclosure volume. Measuring it out with my favorite media (BB's) volume comes in at 0.8L and I still have not filled the void above the rings. Looks like I'll have the proper air space for the midranges!!!









Once again, its getting late. More to come tomorrow night!!!

Ge0


----------



## shinjohn

Geo,
Just wanted to say nice work, and nice choice of midrange! 

You are definitely the case where hard work, research, and careful planning yields wonderful results. My hat off to you. Keep up the good work!


----------



## Ge0

Cool, perfect fit!









The most important test fit. Want to check before I get much further. Fits better than O.J.'s glove. As a matter of fact, perfect!:









Here is where I blend the MDF backed fiberglass pod with the Polypro kick panel. This stuff is fuggin awesome:









Squeegee the epoxy filler into the seam between pod and panel. This stuff goes on smooth like soft butter:

















Time to smooth out the wrinkles. Damn this stuff sets fast:









Luckily it sands easier than hardened resin:

















Oh, forgot to mention this. These pods are thick as hell and I doubt anything would ever resonate within the pass band (later testing proves this). But, staying true to my man Bing and lining the inner surfaces with butyl mat just to be safe:









A little deflex pad action behind the midrange will help break up standing waves inside the enclosure. Not that its funly geometric shape would not already do this on its own. I just have a surplus of deflex pads laying around.:


----------



## Ge0

Now its time to think about laying a finish on these suckers. My first thought was to lay color matched vinyl over them. I purchased vinyl from the same source that supplied it to Dodge. Its a perfect match. However, the added thickness of the vinyl would cause interference fit problems with the kick panels. Stuff might not fit back together the way it is supposed to. So, I decided to try laying down paint first to see how it looked. As it turns out, not bad at all.

The first step towards painting tough to bond to plastics is to get yourself a good adhesion promoter:









Next, lay down a textured paint to try and match the factory pleather finish. :









I held the can some 4ft away to make the texture broader then sanded the surface with 300 grit sand paper to knock down the sharp edges of the surface and to blend with the factory texture on the panel:

























I made some grill rings out of ABS plastic I taped over them and used them as a plug so i would not get paint inside the enclosure:









Lay down the first coat of paint:









Finished painting:









Time to pull the plug:


----------



## Ge0

shinjohn said:


> Geo,
> Just wanted to say nice work, and nice choice of midrange!
> 
> You are definitely the case where hard work, research, and careful planning yields wonderful results. My hat off to you. Keep up the good work!


Thanks guy. That means a lot coming from you. 

It seems like a lot of people are using these mids. I'm not using them for the boner factor. I'm using them since they fit my application perfectly. That, and I already have the REV tweets and midbasses installed 

Keep tuned, there is more.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

Creating a closed cell foam gasket to help seal off the midrange:

































You'll notice I've stuffed the pods with polyfill. No real reason beyond I've always done this with sealed enclosures. It might help increase apparent box volume and surely will not harm the response.

Midrange mounted:









First attempt at a speaker grill put into place:









My favoraite way to create twisted pair wiring:

















Install speaker leads and seal the hole using a spare chunk of butyl sound deadening:


----------



## Ge0

This pod is complete:









Speaker grill v1.0. I'm not entirely happy with them. The metal was too heavy of a gage to bend properly. The edges creased. I'll write a tutorial on how these were made. Very similar to our man Doitors.

















The color match does not look perfect in the photo. However, a camera brings out things you would never notice. That, and I can't explain it, but as the paint dried and hardened more, the color changed tone and blended as good as I could hope.

















Speaker grill v2.0. I like these much better:

























Well, that's it. This has been a fun and extremely labor intensive project. I have a new appreciation for those of you that do this for a living. I hope that what I have done here helps you plan what you may do some day and lend you some insight on how to do it yourself.

Once again, thanks to the numerous others on this forum that helped me with the fabrication tips needed to meet my goals.

Some imperfections exist. However, they don't bug me enough a this time to do anything about it. I hope you have enjoyed.

Ge0


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio

The one BIG question!..

HOW DO THEY SOUND?

The install looks great.. maybe you need to join those of us that do this for a living! 

Mark


----------



## Ge0

FrankstonCarAudio said:


> The one BIG question!..
> 
> HOW DO THEY SOUND?
> 
> The install looks great.. maybe you need to join those of us that do this for a living!
> 
> Mark


Thanks for checking in Mark. I'm extremely happy with how they sound. Months of research went into making this selection and devising this implementation. The fruits of my effort have paid off. Midrange is seemless and effortless as I have ever heard (not saying a whole lot mind you). I just about have them dialed in perfectly with super duper Zapco DC Reference power. I hardly needed to add EQ at all, which is a tall order in this vehicle. The imaging and detail is stunning. I wish you weren't an 18 hour plane flight away or I'd let you have a listen .

Now, post more of your work would you?

Thanks but no thanks. I've had my stint as an installer back in the day. I'd rather sit back and watch for a while 

Ge0


----------



## TEGBOY

Love the 2.0 grills. Maybe Mark and I should take the 18 hr flight, I would love to hear it.

Great idea of the closed cell foam for the sealing of the pods.


----------



## Ge0

TEGBOY said:


> Love the 2.0 grills. Maybe Mark and I should take the 18 hr flight, I would love to hear it.
> 
> Great idea of the closed cell foam for the sealing of the pods.


That foam can be bought in sheets here at any arts and crafts store for about $2.00 USD. Works great.

Ge0


----------



## Skierman

Wow, congrats on finishing! You have a talent you should explore. Looks very nice!


----------



## Fran82

Great job. One of the best install threads on here recently. I hope the sound is as nice as the install.


----------



## Ge0

Thanks Fran.

I have a few misc pesky nuiances to iron out, but, for the most part, this system is fuggin fantastic!

Ge0


----------



## FrankstonCarAudio

I'm really happy for you, Ge0..
All the months of planning and hard work are finally coming to fruition..

Maybe if you turn it up REAL loud, tegboy and I might just be able to hear it!.. 
otherwise I'll PM you my details, so you can send me the plane tickets 

What's the next upgrade?.. you can't say that it is entirely finished.. these systems are never "finished"

Mark


----------



## Ge0

FrankstonCarAudio said:


> I'm really happy for you, Ge0..
> All the months of planning and hard work are finally coming to fruition..
> 
> Maybe if you turn it up REAL loud, tegboy and I might just be able to hear it!..
> otherwise I'll PM you my details, so you can send me the plane tickets
> 
> What's the next upgrade?.. you can't say that it is entirely finished.. these systems are never "finished"
> 
> Mark


Well, I plan on doing a bunch of cosmetic stuff to wiring and the amps cosmetics next spring (not enough good weather left here this year). I never routed real wires into my doors for the midbasses. Still using the factory harness going into the door. That, and I want to make some cool looking amp shrouds. If I get my **** right early enough next year I intend on competing in IASCA and MECA events just to see what happens. I'm sure I'd blow local competition away for a single seater. Have no chance in hell of competing for a two seater. A few local guys have multiple awards to show for it.

But, the most substantial changes / improvements will be a full blown onslaught of CarPC audio processing goodness. Not a car PC in the sense that most people know it. No MP3 / alternate music playback, no navigation, no touch screen. It's sole function is audio processing. Going to take things up a notch with unlimited processing power capable of interstellar space travel if need be. I'll ghetto rig it into the system before the snow hits and screw around with it all winter to see what I can accomplish. I've seriously been wanting to step away from stereo playback and try a more modern approach (thanks Durwood and Abbymole).

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

It really sucks when you have to redo work that has already been done. Lesson learned. DO NOT make door mounted speaker rings out of MDF. Treated with whatever you can think of or not.


















The rings eventually soaked up enough moisture to swell and split apart. This is after being treated with resin and a clear coat finish. The upper ring (which the speaker is mounted to) totaly separated from the lower rings of the stack.

So, a tidbit I picked up from DIYMA (Foxpro5 I believe). High Density Plastic (HDP) or cutting board rings. I purchased a few sets of cutting boards from my local target ($25 total) and planned out the new rings:


















Now to cut them:

Routers can and will bite. Properly secure your work piece or suffer the consequences:










































Done with this phase:









More to come... 10 picture limit.

Ge0


----------



## ErinH

Yes, MDF SUCKS. No matter how you treat it. Unless you actually cover it with deadener, the crap breaks apart. Not to mention that if you're not very careful (and sometimes even if you are) the mdf has a tendency to pull apart when using screws. And if the baffle width isn't large enough the threaded inserts don't want to hold as well. I absolutely hate mdf for speaker rings.



Which scan's are you using? Shielded version? I'm assuming each of those guys are 3/8" board which seems to be a pretty common size. If those are the shielded versions, I don't suppose you'd mind making me a couple sets would you? If not, it's no biggie. I just have a hard time getting things together as my tools are at my folk's house. 


Last time I tried to cut cutting board I had some serious issues with it melting back together. The first cutting boards I used were cut via CNC by a machinist at work. So, I've never cut my own. When I started this up a few weeks ago I gave up because the plastic just kept fusing back together. Did you have any issues with this yourself?


----------



## Ge0

Picked up some 2mm thick closed cell foam 12x24 inch sheets from my local Michaels craft supply store. I will use this for gaskets between the rings.









Glued the gaskets to the HDP rings using 3M Super 90 spray adhesive. This is the ONLY thing I have found that will create a reasonable bond with plastics. Not wanting to count on the bond of the glue alone I ran a number of screws through the stack to hold it:


























Bolt in the driver and apply the foam gasket that will mate with the door trim panel:

























Now, bolt those suckers in and re-apply my clay and BB special blend.

Make a water guard for the midbasses per recommendation of fellow DIYMA member Circa40 (Thanks for the idea, I noticed water stains on my magnets!):









Bolt on the passengers side ring stack and seal off gaps with modeling clay:









Add clay/BB mix (driver side only shown due to picture count limitation):









I then put my door panels back on. You get the idea...

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

For those of you who might have been following this thread. The small palm router, the Jasper jig, and drill press mounted circle cutter have been the best investments I have made for fabricating car audio stuff in some time.

Ge0


----------



## ErinH

Ge0 said:


> For those of you who might have been following this thread. The small palm router, the Jasper jig, and drill press mounted circle cutter have been the best investments I have made for fabricating car audio stuff in some time.
> 
> Ge0


I posted in b/t your posts. Just letting you know in case you missed it.


----------



## TEGBOY

NOICE!! Love the new rings. I too am one of the converted, I will never use MDF for spacers, I love my HDPE spacers.

I have a few quick questions, if I can. What do you use to make the V2.0 rings, are they routered aluminium?

Also, where do you get those mini-ball bearings from? I have looked all over sporting shops, eBay and I cannot find any here in Australia. I am thinking I wouldn't mind trying it.


----------



## Ge0

bikinpunk said:


> Which scan's are you using? Shielded version? I'm assuming each of those guys are 3/8" board which seems to be a pretty common size. If those are the shielded versions, I don't suppose you'd mind making me a couple sets would you? If not, it's no biggie. I just have a hard time getting things together as my tools are at my folk's house.


Bikini. Yes that is 3/8" material. The most common under the sun here in the USA. For cutting boards that is...

Sorry, but My life is extremely busy with work and two little guys. This small project took me two weeks only working late at night and lunch hours to complete. I can't afford the time right now to do more. Doing so would create serious marital strife for me. I'm sure someone will chime in to help you out.



bikinpunk said:


> Last time I tried to cut cutting board I had some serious issues with it melting back together. The first cutting boards I used were cut via CNC by a machinist at work. So, I've never cut my own. When I started this up a few weeks ago I gave up because the plastic just kept fusing back together. Did you have any issues with this yourself?


SLOWER CUTTING SPEEDS. Plastics melt if too hot. If you want to cut it then you have to keep it cool. There are ways to get what you want through melting it though...

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

TEGBOY said:


> NOICE!! Love the new rings. I too am one of the converted, I will never use MDF for spacers, I love my HDPE spacers.
> 
> I have a few quick questions, if I can. What do you use to make the V2.0 rings, are they routered aluminium?
> 
> Also, where do you get those mini-ball bearings from? I have looked all over sporting shops, eBay and I cannot find any here in Australia. I am thinking I wouldn't mind trying it.


Thanks for the kind remarks.

No, the next generation of rings will be made of synthetic counter top material called Corian if need be. It is more dense than HDP or aluminum and water proof. I like aluminum but I'm worried aluminum will corrode.

The ball bearings are not ball bearings at all. The are called BB's. They are small steel bullets made for childrens toy guns (BB guns) around this part of the globe. Readily available here for a very low cost. Cheap weight. If you can't get your hands on some try lead fishing sinkers as an alternative. For me BB's were cheaper but the lead was my first choice.

Ge0


----------



## Ge0

bikinpunk said:


> I posted in b/t your posts. Just letting you know in case you missed it.


Wierd, your post did not show up for me while I was "under construction". I did respond though...

Ge0


----------



## TEGBOY

Ahhh BB guns. I have heard of them, not sure if I can still get those things over here, we have insane anti-gun laws. Will have a look around, if not, maybe I will just order them from eBay US; thanks!


----------



## Ge0

TEGBOY said:


> Ahhh BB guns. I have heard of them, not sure if I can still get those things over here, we have insane anti-gun laws. Will have a look around, if not, maybe I will just order them from eBay US; thanks!


Look for a good deal on lead fishing sinkers instead. Perhaps a better alterative. Also, do you have a source for the modeling clay? Not aware of what's available in your country (I've been there on business but not long enough to really take things in). This stuff should be within your grasp.

Ge0


----------



## TEGBOY

The clay I have found, is called Klean Klay, its only $2.50/454grams. I purchased 10 packs so that should be plenty. It was easy enough to find.

We don't really have plastacine over here, as kids we used Play-Doh. Not really the same. Or we have hardening clay, like the stuff they make mugs and things out of in shop class at school.

Thanks for the advise, sinkers I can easily find.


----------



## xcoldricex

damn you've been busy. VERY NICE!


----------



## Ge0

xcoldricex said:


> damn you've been busy. VERY NICE!


Thanks my fellow DIYMA'er. What have you been up to? Studies or something boring like that .

Ge0


----------



## Fiercetimbo17

yea i have that same drill press bit and its awesome, how did you clamp the piece on the drill press? Im guessing screwed to something and clamped underneath? 
If thats what you did is that a special clamp, ive been looking for a better way to clamp stuff like this, i might even have the same drillpress is that a craftsman pro?


----------



## Ge0

Fiercetimbo17 said:


> yea i have that same drill press bit and its awesome, how did you clamp the piece on the drill press? Im guessing screwed to something and clamped underneath?
> If thats what you did is that a special clamp, ive been looking for a better way to clamp stuff like this, i might even have the same drillpress is that a craftsman pro?












I bolted the vice to the drill press work surface and created a base board as shown:









Next, clamp the base board onto the vice:









You'll notice three holes drilled into the base board. These are spaced 1" apart. The two outer holes are sized to accept a #8 coarse thread drywall screw. The center hole is a backstop for the circle cutter center bit. All my work pieces are drilled with the same pattern and secured to the base board through these holes:









This holds the work piece nice and stable while cutting.

As far as the drill press. Hell, I don't know what model it is. I've owned it for close to 8 years now. Bought it around x-mas for about $90 on sale. It's one of the most reliable and robust pieces of machinery I own. Could not be happier for the money.

Ge0


----------



## johnbooth3

Nice work. I have a few questions concerning your kicks. Where did you get the texture paint? Did you put the Bull Dog adhesion spray on the plastic before the texture paint? Where did you get the Bull Dog? Thanks for all the pics and very nice install.


----------



## Ge0

johnbooth3 said:


> Nice work. I have a few questions concerning your kicks. Where did you get the texture paint? Did you put the Bull Dog adhesion spray on the plastic before the texture paint? Where did you get the Bull Dog? Thanks for all the pics and very nice install.


Thank you for the kind words. I truely believe a few pictures are worth a few pages of words. No more effective way to get your word across. Now onto business:

Go to an auto paint supply store to pick up the adhesion promoter and textured paint. There are also numerous places you can buy this on-line if you choose to go that route.

First, I cleaned the plastic VERY well using mineral spirits. This gets all kind of surface crud off the plastic.

Next, apply the adhesion promoter. This helps paint stick. I let it dry over night.

Next, apply texture coat until you get the surface you are looking for. Let this dry over night.

Finally, apply your favorite color...

Go to SEMS web site. They have a series of awesome tutorials on how to do this.

Ge0


----------



## lyttleviet

wow badass...


----------



## Ge0

lyttleviet said:


> wow badass...


Thanks for the comment. What exactly do you like (or dislike)? Creative criticism is ok here.

Ge0


----------



## tyroneshoes

The front stage looks amazing.

Id like to see how the CM sub was finished off. How do you like it?


----------



## Ge0

tyroneshoes said:


> The front stage looks amazing.
> 
> Id like to see how the CM sub was finished off. How do you like it?


The sub BARELY fits. But, it does fit and works quite nicely.









































I like the fact that I have some decent bass in this vehicle yet take up no cargo space or storage area. I just have to work on a few hidden rattles now.

I still need to do something with that ugly vent below the sub. Perhaps cut it out and put some logo there?

Ge0


----------



## tyroneshoes

Ge0 said:


> The sub BARELY fits. But, it does fit and works quite nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the fact that I have some decent bass in this vehicle yet take up no cargo space or storage area. I just have to work on a few hidden rattles now.
> 
> I still need to do something with that ugly vent below the sub. Perhaps cut it out and put some logo there?
> 
> Ge0


No it looks pretty damn good as is. Id be content if it was my work. Maybe you could do a metal trim over the huge gasket of the cm like in your kicks. Or remove the gasket before doing it to make it fit better. That would look slick IMO

I spy a mass too. One of my fav all timers, how you think the cm compares to it?


----------



## Ge0

tyroneshoes said:


> No it looks pretty damn good as is. Id be content if it was my work. Maybe you could do a metal trim over the huge gasket of the cm like in your kicks. Or remove the gasket before doing it to make it fit better. That would look slick IMO
> 
> I spy a mass too. One of my fav all timers, how you think the cm compares to it?


The Mass 2012 is my old reliable work horse. I LOVE that sub. The LS122 is pretty darn close. Nice sub in its own right. But, I haven't been able to make a true comparison yet.

One thing is for sure. I get far less vibration in my vehicle using the stand alone mass 2012 in tis pre-fabbed enclosure vs. having the sub bolted to the side of my vehicle. Something I'm working on.

Ge0


----------



## meteoro84

excelente work , one question how it is called the drill accessory??


----------



## Ge0

meteoro84 said:


> excelente work , one question how it is called the drill accessory??


In my region of the world it is simply called a circle cutter.

Ge0


----------



## meteoro84

thks!!


----------



## xcoldricex

any updates?


----------



## Ge0

xcoldricex said:


> any updates?


Well, it's been too damn cold out to do anything of significance. I've swapped midbass drivers:

Adire Extremis
M-Pyre 65M
Peerless SLS6

So far I like the Peerless. I get no mechanical noise from them whatsoever until the extreme limits of their excursion is reached. All candidates put out a proficient amount of midbass. The Adire and Mpyre drivers did so but made a lot of mechanical noise (another form of distortion in my book) while doing so. Waiting for temps to climb back into the 30's before I swap the Peerless drivers back in.

Other than that I am experimenting with / preparing my CarPC (i.e. super duper audio processor) indoors with a test rig that mimics my seating poistion in car. I hope to install this by late spring or early summer. THEN I'll see what my system can really do.

Ge0


----------



## FoxPro5

Ge0 said:


> Other than that I am experimenting with / preparing my CarPC (i.e. super duper audio processor) indoors with a test rig that mimics my seating poistion in car. I hope to install this by late spring or early summer. THEN I'll see what my system can really do.


Yeah baby! imp: 

Share some details with the Fox, will ya?


----------



## Notloudenuf

Excellent work! Did I read right that you are using the factory head unit? Maybe I missed something, not sure. 

How bad were the original factory plastic speaker "spacers"? My Milan has the same situation and I am contemplating using them deadened with raamat, clay, bb's, etc. or making a whole new mounting ring from HDPE like yours and THEN deadening them.... 

Thanks, keep it up!


----------



## Ge0

FoxPro5 said:


> Yeah baby! imp:
> 
> Share some details with the Fox, will ya?


All in good time sir...

You know I haven't been as chatty lately as I have been for the last year or more. Hopefully that will come to an end soon and I can spend more time spouting off mindless drivel about car audio throughout the forums again!!!

Ge0


----------



## wmcgalrd

Ge0 

Do you still have your useless 3rd row seat and all the parts? Or does anyone else have one that is also grey and they would like to sell?

I am wanting to put one in my 2005 Durango.

Thanks


----------



## Ge0

wmcgalrd said:


> Ge0
> 
> Do you still have your useless 3rd row seat and all the parts? Or does anyone else have one that is also grey and they would like to sell?
> 
> I am wanting to put one in my 2005 Durango.
> 
> Thanks


Uhhh, your Durango did not come with 3rd row seats? I thought this was standard. What does the back of your Durango look like if it doesn't have the seats? What fills the foot well?

Sorry, holding on to mine for now (thinking resale value).

Try dodgetalk.com for that request.

Ge0


----------



## wmcgalrd

Ge0 said:


> Uhhh, your Durango did not come with 3rd row seats? I thought this was standard. What does the back of your Durango look like if it doesn't have the seats? What fills the foot well?
> 
> Sorry, holding on to mine for now (thinking resale value).
> 
> Try dodgetalk.com for that request.
> 
> Ge0


No, the 3rd row seat is not standard. The area where it would be almost looks like what you built with a plastic storage area under it when opened up. Good for storage, not so much for the kids. 

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## JayinMI

I think this was the first thread where I saw someone mention using HDPE/Cutting Boards for speaker mounting rings, some time ago when I read it the first time.

I just bought a new car and am collecting parts/materials/equipment for a new build. I have not been able to find these cheap cutting boards around me at Target, Kohls, Sams's Club or Walmart (the common places I was told to find them) so I went looking elsewhere.

I came across a bunch of plastic companies that sell HDPE sheet, but it's REALLY pricey in thick enough pieces to use for this application.

The other day I came across a product called "King Starboard." It is made for boats and from the descriptions I've read it is a waterproof, marine grade, plastic used to replace wood on boats. It is available in a bunch of colors, too. 

I ordered some the other day from Ebay user Cesany Plastics. I got a sheet of 1.5" thick 12x24" in black for $59 shipped. The shipping weight was 16lbs. He shipped it SUPER quick, delivered on Saturday by Fedex and it was FAR cheaper than any other similarly sized alternative.

It feels heavy (to me) for it's size. So, I'm hoping it will be dense enough to hold threaded inserts.

Supposedly, it is easy to work with using standard wood working tools.

We'll see.

I was actually searching for info about threaded inserts (to use with the King Starboard) when I came across this thread and read it again...all the way through. 

When I get to start the install, I'll let everyone know how the Starboard works out.

Ge0, whereabouts are you in MI?

Jay


----------



## hoon

first of all let me say that I've really enjoyed reading through all the pages of this thread! excellent work on your durango!

i do have a question for you if you don't mind:
- and this is going back to page 1 -
do you know off the top of your head about how much space is actually under that false floor you created for the 3rd row seat space (depth or volume)? 

i was wondering if you would think that that could be used as a box for 1 or 2 subs firing straight up, because I would love to give a little more punch to my music without tearing apart the stock sub location as you have - plus it sounds like you've had some problems with rattling, and have done a lot of work to minimize that. 

would the space beneath the floor be deep enough? i don't know much about subwoofer enclosures so any input would be greatly appreciated.

if not, i have an infinity basslink powered sub that i could just bolt to the false floor, but the idea of creating an enclosure myself is appealing.

thanks again for any comments


----------



## Ge0

JayinMI said:


> I think this was the first thread where I saw someone mention using HDPE/Cutting Boards for speaker mounting rings, some time ago when I read it the first time.
> 
> I just bought a new car and am collecting parts/materials/equipment for a new build. I have not been able to find these cheap cutting boards around me at Target, Kohls, Sams's Club or Walmart (the common places I was told to find them) so I went looking elsewhere.
> 
> I came across a bunch of plastic companies that sell HDPE sheet, but it's REALLY pricey in thick enough pieces to use for this application.
> 
> The other day I came across a product called "King Starboard." It is made for boats and from the descriptions I've read it is a waterproof, marine grade, plastic used to replace wood on boats. It is available in a bunch of colors, too.
> 
> I ordered some the other day from Ebay user Cesany Plastics. I got a sheet of 1.5" thick 12x24" in black for $59 shipped. The shipping weight was 16lbs. He shipped it SUPER quick, delivered on Saturday by Fedex and it was FAR cheaper than any other similarly sized alternative.
> 
> It feels heavy (to me) for it's size. So, I'm hoping it will be dense enough to hold threaded inserts.
> 
> Supposedly, it is easy to work with using standard wood working tools.
> 
> We'll see.
> 
> I was actually searching for info about threaded inserts (to use with the King Starboard) when I came across this thread and read it again...all the way through.
> 
> When I get to start the install, I'll let everyone know how the Starboard works out.
> 
> Ge0, whereabouts are you in MI?
> 
> Jay



Starboard is a good enough choice. I was going to use it at one time but my local West Marine wanted an arm and a leg for it.

My 1st choice was, and still is, Corian counter top material. But, since I've already made rings out of HDPE and they are working well, I'm not going to change them out.

Funny how you could not find these cutting boards at Target. That's where i got mine. You get a set of three that are about 3/8" thick for $10. I needed three sets to get enough material for my speaker rings. I get bored when shopping with my wife. So, I make it a habit to look for these when in Target just in case I need to make something else. I've been to Target stores all over the state (sad, yes I know) and don't recall one that did not have these cheap cutting boards.

I live right behind the Detroit Zoo in a little town called Huntington Woods. Smack dab in the middle of Metro D.

Ge0


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## Ge0

hoon said:


> first of all let me say that I've really enjoyed reading through all the pages of this thread! excellent work on your durango!
> 
> i do have a question for you if you don't mind:
> - and this is going back to page 1 -
> do you know off the top of your head about how much space is actually under that false floor you created for the 3rd row seat space (depth or volume)?
> 
> i was wondering if you would think that that could be used as a box for 1 or 2 subs firing straight up, because I would love to give a little more punch to my music without tearing apart the stock sub location as you have - plus it sounds like you've had some problems with rattling, and have done a lot of work to minimize that.
> 
> would the space beneath the floor be deep enough? i don't know much about subwoofer enclosures so any input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> if not, i have an infinity basslink powered sub that i could just bolt to the false floor, but the idea of creating an enclosure myself is appealing.
> 
> thanks again for any comments


Thanks for the good words.

Just so you know, I haven't had 1 problem with the rear sub rattling in just about a year now. WOO HOO!!!

The ONLY way to get a decent enough sub enclosure to fit in that space is to mold the bottom and sides out of fiber glass. The contour of the floor space in that region is funky. The area is 48" wide x 36" long. Depth varies from 4" to 7" depending on where you are in the seating / foot well. That is assuming you wanted to keep a false floor flush. More if you can withstand a slight bump up.

You could do conventional subs with smaller magnet structures (like the ones that were considered good enough before monster magnets came into fashion) or you could do more modern shallow mount subs like the JL or Fosgate models I have used.

I don't have any hard dimensions at this time unfortunatley. But, it's easy enough to remove your back seat. Do it yourself in about 2 hours.

I'd be happy to lend assistance to you where I may, but, your endevour is quite different than mine.

Ge0


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## hoon

Ge0 said:


> Thanks for the good words.
> 
> Just so you know, I haven't had 1 problem with the rear sub rattling in just about a year now. WOO HOO!!!
> 
> The ONLY way to get a decent enough sub enclosure to fit in that space is to mold the bottom and sides out of fiber glass. The contour of the floor space in that region is funky. The area is 48" wide x 36" long. Depth varies from 4" to 7" depending on where you are in the seating / foot well. That is assuming you wanted to keep a false floor flush. More if you can withstand a slight bump up.
> 
> You could do conventional subs with smaller magnet structures (like the ones that were considered good enough before monster magnets came into fashion) or you could do more modern shallow mount subs like the JL or Fosgate models I have used.
> 
> I don't have any hard dimensions at this time unfortunatley. But, it's easy enough to remove your back seat. Do it yourself in about 2 hours.
> 
> I'd be happy to lend assistance to you where I may, but, your endevour is quite different than mine.
> 
> Ge0


thanks for the response!

although i would love to work out an enclosure out of the false floor, that is going to be a project that i will have to postpone for quite some time until i have the time and money and possibly get out of school... or maybe next summer. however, i do plan on building the floor itself soonish.

anyway i guess the last question i have for you is where you bought the carpeting for the false floor, i'm just trying to get an idea of what i need to buy and how much, but i'll get the measurements after finals end next week.


once i get the floor in, i'm just going to put in my infinity basslink i have layin around until i can put time into a better system. 

thanks again for your help


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## Strtsk8r321

very nice. I really like the integrated sub enclosure!


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## JayinMI

Ge0 said:


> My 1st choice was, and still is, Corian counter top material. But, since I've already made rings out of HDPE and they are working well, I'm not going to change them out.


I remember Corian...it was a real big deal when it came out because you could sand out scratches and stuff. They used to advertise it alot on TV...
Hadn't seen anything about it for years, and I know it used to be pricey. I wasn't sure about it's density tho since I've never seen it in person. I figure after some hushmat, ensolite, clay, etc. this will work out well...I was more worried about getting something that doesn't rot. 



Ge0 said:


> Funny how you could not find these cutting boards at Target. That's where i got mine. You get a set of three that are about 3/8" thick for $10. I needed three sets to get enough material for my speaker rings. I get bored when shopping with my wife. So, I make it a habit to look for these when in Target just in case I need to make something else. I've been to Target stores all over the state (sad, yes I know) and don't recall one that did not have these cheap cutting boards.


I've been to the Flint one, the Auburn Hills one, and a couple of others. I'll have to try the new one at Telegraph and Square Lk, I guess.



Ge0 said:


> I live right behind the Detroit Zoo in a little town called Huntington Woods. Smack dab in the middle of Metro D.


I know it, I used to work in Berkley.

Jay


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## evo9

Ge0, next time use Expanded PVC/XPVC. It is availabe in sizes from 1/8" to 1" in white or black. You should find that at you local plastic shop that sells plexi glass. I use this stuff with great success. 




Expanded PVC is a foamed polyvinyl chloride (PVC) sheet whose extraordinary combination of features makes it ideal for signage, exhibits, store displays, POP, Kiosks, screen printing and more. 

The surface is a smooth matte finish that makes it ideal to paint or laminate to secondary substrates. Expanded PVC also has good screw and staple retention which makes it ideal for stage prop design, cabinetry and other wood replacement projects. 

Sheets are tough, high-strength and lightweight, and can be ordered in a wide range of sizes, thicknesses and colors. Expanded PVC sheets are free of lead, cadmium, barium and zinc. . .and have passed all three UL 1975 requirements*. 

Expanded PVC is recommended for industrial and commercial signage. It readily accepts virtually any form of graphic overlay (print, paint and photo mounting) . It is also easy to cut and shape, making it a strong choice for three-dimensional exhibits, displays and stage sets. 

FEATURES AND BENEFITS 

Lightweight: easy to handle, easy to work with. 
Low Flammability: meets UL94 5V, UL 1975 and has a flame spread of 20 according to ASTM E84. 
Water resistant : has a closed cell structure and has extremely low water absorption values. 
Surface: the smooth matte surface is ideal for graphics, printing and laminating. 
Weatherability: more color-fast than other foam PVC products. 
Strength: has an excellent strength to weight ratio as shown in the screw and staple pull test data. 
Thermal Conductivity: has excellent insulating characteristics. 
Safety: contains no lead, cadmium or zinc. 








Ge0 said:


> It really sucks when you have to redo work that has already been done. Lesson learned. DO NOT make door mounted speaker rings out of MDF. Treated with whatever you can think of or not.
> 
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> The rings eventually soaked up enough moisture to swell and split apart. This is after being treated with resin and a clear coat finish. The upper ring (which the speaker is mounted to) totaly separated from the lower rings of the stack.
> 
> So, a tidbit I picked up from DIYMA (Foxpro5 I believe). High Density Plastic (HDP) or cutting board rings. I purchased a few sets of cutting boards from my local target ($25 total) and planned out the new rings:
> 
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> Routers can and will bite. Properly secure your work piece or suffer the consequences:
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> Done with this phase:
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> More to come... 10 picture limit.
> 
> Ge0









.


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## Ge0

evo9 said:


> Ge0, next time use Expanded PVC/XPVC. It is availabe in sizes from 1/8" to 1" in white or black. You should find that at you local plastic shop that sells plexi glass. I use this stuff with great success.
> 
> Expanded PVC is a foamed polyvinyl chloride (PVC) sheet whose extraordinary combination of features makes it ideal for signage, exhibits, store displays, POP, Kiosks, screen printing and more.
> 
> The surface is a smooth matte finish that makes it ideal to paint or laminate to secondary substrates. Expanded PVC also has good screw and staple retention which makes it ideal for stage prop design, cabinetry and other wood replacement projects.
> 
> Sheets are tough, high-strength and lightweight, and can be ordered in a wide range of sizes, thicknesses and colors. Expanded PVC sheets are free of lead, cadmium, barium and zinc. . .and have passed all three UL 1975 requirements*.
> 
> Expanded PVC is recommended for industrial and commercial signage. It readily accepts virtually any form of graphic overlay (print, paint and photo mounting) . It is also easy to cut and shape, making it a strong choice for three-dimensional exhibits, displays and stage sets.
> 
> FEATURES AND BENEFITS
> 
> Lightweight: easy to handle, easy to work with.
> Low Flammability: meets UL94 5V, UL 1975 and has a flame spread of 20 according to ASTM E84.
> Water resistant : has a closed cell structure and has extremely low water absorption values.
> Surface: the smooth matte surface is ideal for graphics, printing and laminating.
> Weatherability: more color-fast than other foam PVC products.
> Strength: has an excellent strength to weight ratio as shown in the screw and staple pull test data.
> Thermal Conductivity: has excellent insulating characteristics.
> Safety: contains no lead, cadmium or zinc.


Sounds like you sell this stuff for a living.

Any pictures of the material?

Any pictures of work you have done with it?

I picked the HDP since it seemed like a dense enough material. if you read earlier in my thread you would have noticed that I originally wanted to use Corian but had a hard time finding it locally.

Ge0


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## Dodge4L1fe

Nice system Ge0. How did you run the speaker wire into the doors? Did you have to modifiy anything?


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## Ge0

Dodge4L1fe said:


> Nice system Ge0. How did you run the speaker wire into the doors? Did you have to modifiy anything?


Thank you.

Heh heh heh. Well, never figured that one out. At least without needing to drop the dash. I spliced into the factory harness to pass into the door. I have 16ga wire running from the rear of the vehicle up to the drivers and passengers side kick panels. Then its factory 18ga entering the doors. Not optimal, but for that short of a wire run remains effective.

Ge0


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## Ge0

Bump


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## kyheng

^Should bump with some updated works..... Still nice work you got.


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## FrankstonCarAudio

Ge0 said:


> Bump


You are still around! 

Just thinking about your install the other day (and the Hafler discussions! )..

Mark


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## digdug18

Ge0, what does your wife think about all this? Between the money it costs to buy the needed amps, speakers, materials and the space at home to store everything. Also your "at home test rig" you mentioned to test your in car pc during the winter months?

My wife wouldn't say much, but I'm sure I would get **** for buying different speakers if the ones I had were good enough, lol. 

Also, when you were making the front kick panel speakers, you laid tape over the carpet and then sprayed pam on top of it. Did either the pam or the fiberglass soak through the tape and into the carpet? I'm weary of doing this because I don't want that to happen?

Andrew


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## Ge0

digdug18 said:


> Ge0, what does your wife think about all this? Between the money it costs to buy the needed amps, speakers, materials and the space at home to store everything. Also your "at home test rig" you mentioned to test your in car pc during the winter months?
> 
> My wife wouldn't say much, but I'm sure I would get **** for buying different speakers if the ones I had were good enough, lol. Andrew


Simple. Keep a slush fund in paypal using your profits from buying and selling crap on-line. Funds she was not counting on don't affect her bottom line. That, and limit time spent on your project to time "she" needs away to shop for clothes or something else. Pathetic yes. Preserve your marriage, YES.




digdug18 said:


> Also, when you were making the front kick panel speakers, you laid tape over the carpet and then sprayed pam on top of it. Did either the pam or the fiberglass soak through the tape and into the carpet? I'm weary of doing this because I don't want that to happen?


Simple. Be thorough with the tape. Use many layers. Close up seams. In the end I had a minor leakage in a low seam. But, in an unseen area where you do not see with the pods installed. ****ty to the totally anal, yes. But worth it in the long run...

Geo


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## ErinH

he lives!


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## chad

holy ****. it's like finding Hoffa!


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## Ge0

Sorry for disappearing on ya ladies. Lifes been real hectic. Been out of the country for a few years. Yada yada yada...

I'm trying to make a comeback though. Just got the Durango out of storage recently.

Ge0


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## ErinH

welcome back.


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## chad

hoffa again.


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## Chaos

Whoa. That is a heckuva lot of work you put in to that install, and it is maybe one of the purest examples of DIY mobile audio that I have seen yet. Nice job.


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## therapture

Late to the game, but damn nice work OP!


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## arobben

GeO,
I'm really new to this, but i have the same model of durango as you and I'm unsure on some stuff. First off, a real simple question for you probably-I have 2 65 watt rms speakers that i want to use to replace the 2 stock speakers in the front. Do I need an amp or anything for these? The durango is the limited edition, but it has more of the basic sound system in it, not the big touch screen like yours has. 
If you have any suggestions, that would be great.
Thanks in advance.


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## Rafa Torres

Awesome work!


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## Rojo law

I was just wondering what people have found to be the best way to wire up the factory nav. radio to amps? I'm planning on using a 5 channel amp for just a simple upgrade over stock and was wanting to keep the nav unit. So any suggestions would be much appreciated. 
I was thinking of using this LC6i - AudioControl Six Channel Line Output Converter but might be more than I really need.


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