# New Stevens Audio Midbass MB-8 2 ohm



## Eric Stevens

Here is another of our products in stock now and starting to ship next week. This is one of our High power high sensitivity midbass drivers the MB-8 2 ohm. Its intended for use in high end SQ systems or in portable rave style systems that really like to enjoy quality music reproduction. A very high sensitivity of 101 dB @ 2.83 volts or 95dB @ 1watt (1.4 volts) allow this driver to excel with very low distortion even at higher listening levels.With an Fo of 56 Hz and 1-way xmax of 5.5mm it is a capable driver good to 70 Hz at its full RMS power handling of 225 watts RMS.

Mounting depth 3.5"
Cutout diameter 7.125"


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## oabeieo

Wowzers! 

This looks amazing.


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## BBOYSTEVIE

This is the driver I was looking for when I had horns!


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## mrichard89

Where can we buy a set? Also interested in the component set that you posted a picture of on your FB page!


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## Elgrosso

Nice! On sims they look really close to my 8mbx51, but with 2 ohms only.
And they seem to have a smoother response up high.
Well too late fore me, and they wouldn’t fit my doors with this big motor.

Eric, are your 10s ready?


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## estione

I think i want a pair of these, UK shipping available Mr E. stevens??


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## Eric Stevens

mrichard89 said:


> Where can we buy a set? Also interested in the component set that you posted a picture of on your FB page!


They will be available through retailer or direct from us. $98 each. We will have website up very soon or you can email or PM me.

The Component set will be available before June 15th


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## Eric Stevens

Elgrosso said:


> Nice! On sims they look really close to my 8mbx51, but with 2 ohms only.
> And they seem to have a smoother response up high.
> Well too late fore me, and they wouldn’t fit my doors with this big motor.
> 
> Eric, are your 10s ready?


10" are finished but we started with the volume sizes first. I would estimate we will have the 10" available by end of the summer.

Its a dainty 5.25" magnet, come on it will fit  The NEO midbass drivers will come in a few months also.


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## Eric Stevens

estione said:


> I think i want a pair of these, UK shipping available Mr E. stevens??


Yes, we will ship them worldwide. I would need to check with USPS and FedEx for rates for you.


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## sq2k1

Oh what I would give to cram these in my doors.... hmmmm....


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## fullergoku

Would they sound best in a sealed enclosure or IB?


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## Elgrosso

Eric Stevens said:


> 10" are finished but we started with the volume sizes first. I would estimate we will have the 10" available by end of the summer.
> 
> Its a dainty 5.25" magnet, come on it will fit  The NEO midbass drivers will come in a few months also.


Ok, It gives me time to kill my beymas 
The 10s are NEO right? (as seen in another thread)


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## Lou Frasier2

Eric Stevens said:


> 10" are finished but we started with the volume sizes first. I would estimate we will have the 10" available by end of the summer.
> 
> Its a dainty 5.25" magnet, come on it will fit  The NEO midbass drivers will come in a few months also.


what is the depth on the 10s?


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## Eric Stevens

Elgrosso said:


> Ok, It gives me time to kill my beymas
> The 10s are NEO right? (as seen in another thread)


There is Ferrite and Neo versions of the 10"


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## cageymaru

Will there be a coaxial horn 8" and 10" version? I think I saw someone else link an image of a prototype from you in the Co-ax midbass/horn speakers thread post #10 in the HLCD section of the forums. I thought they would be easy to install. I can't link the thread because of post count.


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## dcfis

Keep coming back, cant get enough! Pleats FTW!


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## Eric Stevens

cageymaru said:


> Will there be a coaxial horn 8" and 10" version? I think I saw someone else link an image of a prototype from you in the Co-ax midbass/horn speakers thread post #10 in the HLCD section of the forums. I thought they would be easy to install. I can't link the thread because of post count.


I dont have plans to add a Coax version at this time, as we expand it is certainly a possibility.


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## mrichard89

Eric Stevens said:


> They will be available through retailer or direct from us. $98 each. We will have website up very soon or you can email or PM me.
> 
> The Component set will be available before June 15th


Do you have any more info/specs on the SP6 component set? I'm looking for a new component set to install in my new 4runner. Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Matt R


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## Eric Stevens

Here are the frequency response and T/S parameters for the 4 ohm version.


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## dcfis

From your facebook it looks like the components dont use the High sensitivity midbass but an ID derived one? Wanting to know what you suggest for a 2 way


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## Eric Stevens

dcfis said:


> From your facebook it looks like the components dont use the High sensitivity midbass but an ID derived one? Wanting to know what you suggest for a 2 way


The component set SA6CS is still a higher sensitivity speaker at 90dB but not as high as the MB6. 

It has a Neo motor that outwardly might appear the same as the XS65 but it is quite different, different gap geometry with full copper pole sleeve and aluminum shortingring above and below the gap.


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## disconnected

Eric Stevens said:


> They will be available through retailer or direct from us. $98 each. We will have website up very soon or you can email or PM me.
> 
> The Component set will be available before June 15th


For the 2 ohm mids, $196 for a pair, free shipping?


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## Eric Stevens

disconnected said:


> For the 2 ohm mids, $196 for a pair, free shipping?


Yes that is correct.


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## enigma

Would these work in let's say a ported enclosure? If so, would 0.5 cubic feet net be ok? And what tuning?

Very nice drivers indeed I'm very curious lol.


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## reaper68

Well that made my search for a driver to match your horns pretty easy haaaa. I will be getting these and a pair of full sized horns should get the job done.


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## Eric Stevens

enigma said:


> Would these work in let's say a ported enclosure? If so, would 0.5 cubic feet net be ok? And what tuning?
> 
> Very nice drivers indeed I'm very curious lol.


POrted or sealed/IB the ported will have significantly more impact in the 60 to 90 range

I need to spend some time modelling them but shooting from the hip, in .5 cuft I would suggest 60 Hz as tuning frequency


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## LDW3RD

Seems like a mighty fine transducer.


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## disconnected

How do we order these speakers? Is there an online buying portal? or do we have to call?


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## sq2k1

Are there any updates on the subwoofers I have seen photos of on the facebook page? Very interested and curious about them.....


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## dowheelies

disconnected said:


> How do we order these speakers? Is there an online buying portal? or do we have to call?





sq2k1 said:


> Are there any updates on the subwoofers I have seen photos of on the facebook page? Very interested and curious about them.....



What they said? Would be really interested in an IDQSish(that never happened that I'm aware) sub for underseat use in truck.

Eric


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## Eric Stevens

disconnected said:


> How do we order these speakers? Is there an online buying portal? or do we have to call?


For now contact me by PM or email until the website is launched very soon. eric @cdesaudio.com


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## Eric Stevens

sq2k1 said:


> Are there any updates on the subwoofers I have seen photos of on the facebook page? Very interested and curious about them.....


suwoofers are finished and in production. Availability will be announced shortly. They are a long excursion 23mm+ one way all windings in the gap with high power nadling to create a high output SQ subwoofer dual aluminum shorting rings for flat inductance and very low power compression


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## C0ryp1

thats a amazing sensitivity do you make this in 4ohms aswell?


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## Eric Stevens

C0ryp1 said:


> thats a amazing sensitivity do you make this in 4ohms aswell?


Yes! They are available in both 2 and 4 ohm versions.


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## disconnected

150watts per channel
What crossovers?
3.15khz or 4khz at 24db/octave LP?
63hz or 80hz or 100hz at 24db/octave HP?


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## sq2k1

Eric Stevens said:


> suwoofers are finished and in production. Availability will be announced shortly. They are a long excursion 23mm+ one way all windings in the gap with high power nadling to create a high output SQ subwoofer dual aluminum shorting rings for flat inductance and very low power compression


Looking forward to seeing the final specs.... hope they are viable for sealed or ported.


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## Eric Stevens

disconnected said:


> 150watts per channel
> What crossovers?
> 3.15khz or 4khz at 24db/octave LP?
> 63hz or 80hz or 100hz at 24db/octave HP?


Low Pass @ 3.1 Khz is doable but I would sugges 2.8Khz or 2.5khz. 

High pass @ 63 Hz is good I suggest 70 or 80hz

If those are your only choices go for the 3.15 and 80 to start


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## minbari

well this comes along just in time for my search for a set of midbass for my car. 
One my X65 just pulled the cone away from the surround. not a happy camper for what those cost.

I am sure I know the answer, but do these have a significantly better midbass response than the old X65 do? about the only thing I dont like about them, the FS is far too high.


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## Eric Stevens

minbari said:


> well this comes along just in time for my search for a set of midbass for my car.
> One my X65 just pulled the cone away from the surround. not a happy camper for what those cost.
> 
> I am sure I know the answer, but do these have a significantly better midbass response than the old X65 do? about the only thing I dont like about them, the FS is far too high.


The MB8 will have more everywhere with a better overall response curve (flatter) and still do very well into the uper midrange.


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## minbari

Eric Stevens said:


> The MB8 will have more everywhere with a better overall response curve (flatter) and still do very well into the uper midrange.


ossum! I am looking to use them with your mini horns. so they wont need to play much above 1500


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## estione

How would these do using them just as a midbass in a 3-way + sub with horns?


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## Eric Stevens

estione said:


> How would these do using them just as a midbass in a 3-way + sub with horns?


If used in a 3 way with a high senstivity midrange and HLCD they would work great.


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## NastyNate

I'm curious what I'd gain or lose going from B&C 8NDL51's to these? I have zapco DC752's bridged per midbass driver, so 780 watts at 4 ohms, not sure how much they do at 4 or 2 ohms. Those faital 10FH500's are also quite intriguing. Decisions decisions. 

Did anybody buy a set of thse to play with yet?


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## reaper68

Ordered a set along with hlcd's will report back once I get them


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## reaper68

Got them I'll try to get the install rolling and report back they will be ran active via minidsp with ~75 rms to the HLCD and ~250 on the MB-8's


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## dcfis

reaper68 said:


> Got them I'll try to get the install rolling and report back they will be ran active via minidsp with ~75 rms to the HLCD and ~250 on the MB-8's


Those 8s fit in your Honda? Got a few pics?


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## reaper68

dcfis said:


> Those 8s fit in your Honda? Got a few pics?


Well they will fit depth wise with a .75" spacer with about .125" gap from the crash bar in the door. However, the door is going to need some cut off wheel love to fit the mass magnets and frames on these. The plastic in the door may need to have the "Gasket" lip that they have molded into it trimmed some but it should work I'll get some pics up when I start hacking and slashing.


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## dcfis




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## reaper68

Indeed a pretty good one I would say! I'll start a new thread to show the install and hopefully get some data I can share on response in my particular application.


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## pwnt by pat

Neo models?


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## Eric Stevens

pwnt by pat said:


> Neo models?


Not yet.


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## pwnt by pat

Shoot. Any idea how long?


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## NastyNate

Any idea on the 10s? I'd love to run a 10" NEO from you man, still waiting to pull the trigger...


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## Jscoyne2

NastyNate said:


> Any idea on the 10s? I'd love to run a 10" NEO from you man, still waiting to pull the trigger...


Have you tried the peerless sls?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## NastyNate

Jscoyne2 said:


> Have you tried the peerless sls?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


That driver is not a good fit to match with horns, 85db sensitivity.


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## Jscoyne2

NastyNate said:


> That driver is not a good fit to match with horns, 85db sensitivity.


What other 10s work?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## NastyNate

Jscoyne2 said:


> What other 10s work?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


Faital Pro 10FH500 10" Speakers - Faital Pro 10FH500 mid-bass, bass guitar speaker and subwoofer 10" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 10FH500 1,200 watt 10" efficiency of 96dB SPL woofer for all high power bass application

Beyma Neodymium Speakers - Beyma 10MW/Nd speaker - Beyma 10MW/Nd 700 watt 10" woofer for all bass applications. Beyma 10MW/Nd neodymium speaker and other Beyma neodymium lightweight speakers here.

It's down to these two for me. Still haven't decided and was hoping Eric would have some 10's ready to go some day.


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## Jscoyne2

NastyNate said:


> Faital Pro 10FH500 10" Speakers - Faital Pro 10FH500 mid-bass, bass guitar speaker and subwoofer 10" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 10FH500 1,200 watt 10" efficiency of 96dB SPL woofer for all high power bass application
> 
> Beyma Neodymium Speakers - Beyma 10MW/Nd speaker - Beyma 10MW/Nd 700 watt 10" woofer for all bass applications. Beyma 10MW/Nd neodymium speaker and other Beyma neodymium lightweight speakers here.
> 
> It's down to these two for me. Still haven't decided and was hoping Eric would have some 10's ready to go some day.


Have you ever run 10s before? Where do you plan on putting them? Sealed, Ib, variovent?

This is some very good info on sensitivity if you haven't read it.

Sensitivity Spec in Car Audio : Hoffmans Iron Law Discussion - Sundown Technical - SSA Car Audio Forum


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## NastyNate

Jscoyne2 said:


> NastyNate said:
> 
> 
> 
> Faital Pro 10FH500 10" Speakers - Faital Pro 10FH500 mid-bass, bass guitar speaker and subwoofer 10" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 10FH500 1,200 watt 10" efficiency of 96dB SPL woofer for all high power bass application
> 
> Beyma Neodymium Speakers - Beyma 10MW/Nd speaker - Beyma 10MW/Nd 700 watt 10" woofer for all bass applications. Beyma 10MW/Nd neodymium speaker and other Beyma neodymium lightweight speakers here.
> 
> It's down to these two for me. Still haven't decided and was hoping Eric would have some 10's ready to go some day.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever run 10s before? Where do you plan on putting them? Sealed, Ib, variovent?
> 
> This is some very good info on sensitivity if you haven't read it.
> 
> Sensitivity Spec in Car Audio : Hoffmans Iron Law Discussion - Sundown Technical - SSA Car Audio Forum
Click to expand...

That article deals with sub bass below 50hz. It's not applicable. We're talking about midbass drivers that are playing 80-1500hz where sensitivity inductance and output are all in a balancing act. You can't get around hoffmans iron law but you can maximize the application. We're talking about matching midbass drivers to hlcd horns. 85db sensitivity drivers do not work in this application.


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## Jscoyne2

I dont understand the issue of matching sensitivities. If you mean by tuning. Gains and tuning is a thing...

If you have 800hz and up covered by something that takes next to no power to get past the point where its too loud to listen too. That is great. I can do that with around 80-200rms on a midbass driver too. Regardless of sensitivity (thus the large rms difference range). 

What am i missing here?


I was asking about yours 10s because i have peerless sls 10s in my kicks vented outside the vehicle. 0 - 238hz and they work great. Id recommend putting whatever 10 you got into your kicks if at all possible. 
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

Jscoyne2 said:


> I dont understand the issue of matching sensitivities. If you mean by tuning. Gains and tuning is a thing...
> 
> If you have 800hz and up covered by something that takes next to no power to get past the point where its too loud to listen too. That is great. I can do that with around 80-200rms on a midbass driver too. Regardless of sensitivity (thus the large rms difference range).
> 
> What am i missing here?
> 
> 
> I was asking about yours 10s because i have peerless sls 10s in my kicks vented outside the vehicle. 0 - 238hz and they work great. Id recommend putting whatever 10 you got into your kicks if at all possible.
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


Any ten will get decently loud, but I dont think you understand horns. At SVR the car next to me was running horns and a beefy midbass. We got talking and turns out he had the horns down by -38 in the processor to match levels. What I'm getting at is horns are a waste if your not using a high efficiency midbass with them.

Also regarding the article you posted, he has 1 thing wrong. Or at least skewed. Where he said 99% of companies rate the sensitivity at 1khz.. That might be true in car audio, but thats not the case with raw drivers. I called up madisound once to ask about a few drivers and mentioned this 1khz rating and they had no idea why any company would rate then like that and said most are just an average of their response in the intended bandwidth. If you look at some graphs you can see thats the case

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## Eric Stevens

Jscoyne2 said:


> I dont understand the issue of matching sensitivities. If you mean by tuning. Gains and tuning is a thing...
> 
> If you have 800hz and up covered by something that takes next to no power to get past the point where its too loud to listen too. That is great. I can do that with around 80-200rms on a midbass driver too. Regardless of sensitivity (thus the large rms difference range).
> 
> What am i missing here?
> 
> 
> I was asking about yours 10s because i have peerless sls 10s in my kicks vented outside the vehicle. 0 - 238hz and they work great. Id recommend putting whatever 10 you got into your kicks if at all possible.
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


You are correct, they can work very well with levels set correctly etc. The reason I suggest higher sensitivity is a combination of many factors.

Primary reason---For the best results I prefer to have drivers matched with other drivers with similar or the same characteristics. For example if you have a budget midbass with average sonic qualities with a tweeter that is very low distortion with excellent sonic qualities the lower performance midbass will stick out to some degree. If you have two drivers of equal sonic qualities nothing stands out and it actually sounds better overall.


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## Patrick Bateman

SkizeR said:


> Any ten will get decently loud, but I dont think you understand horns. At SVR the car next to me was running horns and a beefy midbass. We got talking and turns out he had the horns down by -38 in the processor to match levels. What I'm getting at is horns are a waste if your not using a high efficiency midbass with them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


I was surprised to find that some $20-$50 soft dome tweeters can produce more undistorted output than a $150 compression driver.

From examining the data, I think what's going on is that the cheap dome tweeters have relatively low efficiency, around 90dB. And a compression driver has extremely high efficiency, around 108dB. But the dome tweeter has more displacement because the dome tweeter has a surround, while most compression drivers *barely* have one. (If you take a compression driver apart, it's basically a mylar or titanium dome with no surround.)

So the compression driver is running out of displacement first, and this limits it's maximum undistorted output.

There's an ultra simple solution - use a high xover point. But nobody wants to do that in car audio, we're all running xover points in the range of 1000-1500Hz, even lower sometimes.

This doesn't mean that one solution is superior to the other, it's just an interesting engineering compromise. The compression driver has to skip using the surround because that's required to keep the mass down, which raises the efficiency. But that compromise limits it's maximum output at low frequency.

The ultimate solution, obviously, is to use an incredibly light diaphragm like beryllium, along with a surround. But that gets really expensive. TAD 2001s are about $2000 a pair.


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## DeLander

Any updates or reviews on these ? I lost a midbass on my way home from work today and am looking to replace them.


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## DeLander

Come on guys. I know somebody has installed or at least listened to these and can give some thoughts about how they stack-up in the 8” midbass world.


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## JI808

DeLander said:


> Come on guys. I know somebody has installed or at least listened to these and can give some thoughts about how they stack-up in the 8” midbass world.


Waiting on mine to arrive. Will be a while before I can get them installed.


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## Patrick Bateman

DeLander said:


> Come on guys. I know somebody has installed or at least listened to these and can give some thoughts about how they stack-up in the 8” midbass world.


Spoiler alert: there's about eight people who frequent this forum 

It's not exactly Grand Central Station here.


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## DeLander

Patrick Bateman said:


> Spoiler alert: there's about eight people who frequent this forum
> 
> It's not exactly Grand Central Station here.


I know. But, I figured somebody would see it in the Recent Posts section on the index page. ?


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## rton20s

Patrick Bateman said:


> Spoiler alert: there's about eight people who frequent this forum
> 
> It's not exactly Grand Central Station here.


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## Eric Stevens

Patrick,

I have to call total "BS" on your statement

Please refrain from what I will term dis-information, you might think you have your facts correct but your statements and supporting information are in conflict with each other, and mostly all wrong at the same time.

No tweeter of any quality level will ever produce more undistorted output than a HLCD unless there is some sort of issue or problem with the compression driver or horn.

If your statements are the results of some sort of test by you or someone else it is very obvious there are some serious errors or omissions in the procedures utilized.



Patrick Bateman said:


> I was surprised to find that some $20-$50 soft dome tweeters can produce more undistorted output than a $150 compression driver.
> 
> From examining the data, I think what's going on is that the cheap dome tweeters have relatively low efficiency, around 90dB. And a compression driver has extremely high efficiency, around 108dB. But the dome tweeter has more displacement because the dome tweeter has a surround, while most compression drivers *barely* have one. (If you take a compression driver apart, it's basically a mylar or titanium dome with no surround.)
> 
> So the compression driver is running out of displacement first, and this limits it's maximum undistorted output.
> 
> There's an ultra simple solution - use a high xover point. But nobody wants to do that in car audio, we're all running xover points in the range of 1000-1500Hz, even lower sometimes.
> 
> This doesn't mean that one solution is superior to the other, it's just an interesting engineering compromise. The compression driver has to skip using the surround because that's required to keep the mass down, which raises the efficiency. But that compromise limits it's maximum output at low frequency.
> 
> The ultimate solution, obviously, is to use an incredibly light diaphragm like beryllium, along with a surround. But that gets really expensive. TAD 2001s are about $2000 a pair.


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## DeLander

Looking at the response/ impedance graphs, the impedance rises quickly from about 300Hz at 2 ohms to around 10 ohms at about 80 Hz. I’m really getting confused looking at graphs and specs for different drivers. 
Does this rising impedance mean that there would significantly reduced output below 300Hz all the way down to 80Hz, with 80Hz being really low on output ?
I’m looking for either 8” or 10” midbasses for my doors running about 63 (or 80 Hz ) up to around 400-500Hz. I need something with a lot of output to keep up with my ported Alpine Type S 15 substage.


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## Patrick Bateman

Eric Stevens said:


> Patrick,
> 
> I have to call total "BS" on your statement
> 
> Please refrain from what I will term dis-information, you might think you have your facts correct but your statements and supporting information are in conflict with each other, and mostly all wrong at the same time.
> 
> No tweeter of any quality level will ever produce more undistorted output than a HLCD unless there is some sort of issue or problem with the compression driver or horn.
> 
> If your statements are the results of some sort of test by you or someone else it is very obvious there are some serious errors or omissions in the procedures utilized.


Eric,

It may not have been apparent from my statement, but I was referring to a dome tweeter on a horn versus a compression driver on a horn.

*And I stand by my statement:*

There are dome tweeters that cost $20-$50 that can produce more undistorted output on a horn or waveguide than a compression driver.

The key here, that I should have stressed in my post, *is that some dome tweeters have an advantage on the low end of the frequency range.*

I know that you understand how drivers work, and because of that, you know why the dome tweeter sometimes has an advantage over a compression driver:

It's because some dome tweeters have more displacement than compression drivers. Though the dome tweeter has a smaller diaphragm, _they frequently have way more xmax._



Does that make sense? If you have two tweeters, one is a dome that's 1" in diameter, and the other is a compression driver that's 1.75" in diameter. Though the dome has way WAY lower efficiency, it has more displacement, and if you're trying to play low in frequency, *it's all about displacement.*


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## Eric Stevens

Patrick Bateman said:


> Eric,
> 
> It may not have been apparent from my statement, but I was referring to a dome tweeter on a horn versus a compression driver on a horn.
> 
> *And I stand by my statement:*
> 
> There are dome tweeters that cost $20-$50 that can produce more undistorted output on a horn or waveguide than a compression driver.
> 
> The key here, that I should have stressed in my post, *is that some dome tweeters have an advantage on the low end of the frequency range.*
> 
> I know that you understand how drivers work, and because of that, you know why the dome tweeter sometimes has an advantage over a compression driver:
> 
> It's because some dome tweeters have more displacement than compression drivers. Though the dome tweeter has a smaller diaphragm, _they frequently have way more xmax._
> 
> 
> 
> Does that make sense? If you have two tweeters, one is a dome that's 1" in diameter, and the other is a compression driver that's 1.75" in diameter. Though the dome has way WAY lower efficiency, it has more displacement, and if you're trying to play low in frequency, *it's all about displacement.*


I understand your points although I still disagree. The fact the tweeter is horn loaded will help to improve it's sensitivity but it will still suffer from a lack of motor to overcome the air load at higher frequencies.

Lets review some of your statements and examine where they stray from the correct path. First, displacement of a 1" tweeter dome would be .785 sq in compared to a 1.75 compression driver dome at 2.4 sq in. That is three times the static displacement and as you have already aluded there is no replacement for displacement when it comes to low frequency. Second, Most tweeters have similar voice coil winding height compared to a compression driver with similar voice coil overhang. Third, If the tweeter did have longer excursion of say .5 mm or .0197" that is nowhere near enough excursion to make up for the static displacement difference.

I think that is enough of a hole.


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## dcfis

My tweets have 1.4mm xmax


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## Eric Stevens

dcfis said:


> My tweets have 1.4mm xmax


Exactly, and that is what my point is. So if the 1" dome tweeter has 1.5mm and the compression driver has 1.0 mm that .5mm of additional xmax isnt going to do much to give it more output or lower distortion at a similar output level compared to a compression driver.


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## dcfis

I gotcha


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## Patrick Bateman

Eric Stevens said:


> I understand your points although I still disagree. The fact the tweeter is horn loaded will help to improve it's sensitivity but it will still suffer from a lack of motor to overcome the air load at higher frequencies.
> 
> Lets review some of your statements and examine where they stray from the correct path. First, displacement of a 1" tweeter dome would be .785 sq in compared to a 1.75 compression driver dome at 2.4 sq in. That is three times the static displacement and as you have already aluded there is no replacement for displacement when it comes to low frequency. Second, Most tweeters have similar voice coil winding height compared to a compression driver with similar voice coil overhang. Third, If the tweeter did have longer excursion of say .5 mm or .0197" that is nowhere near enough excursion to make up for the static displacement difference.
> 
> I think that is enough of a hole.


Hey Eric,

Per your request, I ran the measurements.

Data is here: Domes on Horns vs Compression Drivers on Horns - diyAudio

I posted them over in diyaudio as there's a larger audience and the folks at diyaudio are generally more critical of my posts.

Let me know if you have any questions. I'd be happy to measure any driver or horn you'd like. I can purchase a different mic if you doubt my methods.

If you have questions about how this works, I can explain it.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

Eric Stevens said:


> Exactly, and that is what my point is. So if the 1" dome tweeter has 1.5mm and the compression driver has 1.0 mm that .5mm of additional xmax isnt going to do much to give it more output or lower distortion at a similar output level compared to a compression driver.


Output is a product of displacement. It's as simple as that. An 8" woofer with 12mm of xmax will generate more output at low frequency than a 12" woofer with 4mm of xmax.

There's no way to get around this. It applies to tweeters, midranges and woofer. It's why the entire audio world is moving towards small drivers with large xmax and amplifiers with high power.

Efficiency is largely an irrelevant parameter. Displacement is what matters.

If you don't believe me, run your own measurements. If you think my measurements are wrong, tell me what mic to buy. The data does not lie. This isn't 1997; stop obsessing over sensitivity. It's practically irrelevant.


----------



## Eric Stevens

Patrick Bateman said:


> Output is a product of displacement. It's as simple as that. An 8" woofer with 12mm of xmax will generate more output at low frequency than a 12" woofer with 4mm of xmax.
> 
> There's no way to get around this. It applies to tweeters, midranges and woofer. It's why the entire audio world is moving towards small drivers with large xmax and amplifiers with high power.
> 
> Efficiency is largely an irrelevant parameter. Displacement is what matters.
> 
> If you don't believe me, run your own measurements. If you think my measurements are wrong, tell me what mic to buy. The data does not lie. This isn't 1997; stop obsessing over sensitivity. It's practically irrelevant.


To call efficiecny irrelevant is laughable and shows a lack of proper understanding for the math and processes at work in the production / reproduction of sound. Your supporting statements further prove the preceeding statement. 

I see your measurments and dont refute them, I do however think the conclusions are wrong and based upon an improper analyzation of the data. 

Even on the other forum they point at glaring errors in your posts.

I am not here to provide an education but I dont want you mis-informing people either. A 10 minute discussion pointing out your mistakes and you would probably want to edit your posts.


----------



## Patrick Bateman




----------



## Eric Stevens

I never said displacement wasnt important.

Its all important, and all must be considered in the process. It is not as simple as you outline and your conclusions are not correct.


----------



## DeLander

Looking at the response/ impedance graphs, the impedance rises quickly from about 300Hz at 2 ohms to around 10 ohms at about 80 Hz. I’m really getting confused looking at graphs and specs for different drivers. 
Does this rising impedance mean that there would significantly reduced output below 300Hz all the way down to 80Hz, with 80Hz being really low on output ?
I’m looking for either 8” or 10” midbasses for my doors running about 63 (or 80 Hz ) up to around 400-500Hz. I need something with a lot of output to keep up with my ported Alpine Type S 15 substage.


----------



## ErinH

DeLander said:


> Looking at the response/ impedance graphs, the impedance rises quickly from about 300Hz at 2 ohms to around 10 ohms at about 80 Hz. I’m really getting confused looking at graphs and specs for different drivers.
> Does this rising impedance mean that there would significantly reduced output below 300Hz all the way down to 80Hz, with 80Hz being really low on output ?
> I’m looking for either 8” or 10” midbasses for my doors running about 63 (or 80 Hz ) up to around 400-500Hz. I need something with a lot of output to keep up with my ported Alpine Type S 15 substage.


3 things that might help you:

Part A: In general, higher sensitivity drivers have a higher Fs (the resonant point of a speaker) than mid/lower sensitivity drivers _of the same size_. That's just a primary trade off between high and low(er) sensitivity drivers.

That's Part A. Part 2 is coupling the Fs to Qts. The lower the Qts, the earlier the acoustic rolloff starts but it's also more gradual. Say, for instance, if the Qts is 0.20 and the Fs is 100hz, you might be down 3dB at 100hz from 300hz but if you had a Qts of 0.7 you might be down 10dB at 100hz from 300hz (these numbers are made up only to provide an example of what I mean; you can find real world examples by pulling up various spec sheets). The Qts impact is regardless of sensitivity; it acts the same for all speaker types. 
I can't see the specs of this particular midbass driver, but FWIW 2ohms to 8ohms isn't that drastic of a dropoff between 2 octaves, IMHO. Seems par for the course for higher-sensitivity drivers with low-to-mid Qts.


Part D: When you factor in sensitivity and enclosure/type, your concerns may be made moot. Modeling drivers with something like WinISD or BassBoxPro is practically necessary to understand differences in how two drivers' baseline response will play out. _Especially _so when comparing a driver with mid-to-upper 80's sensitivity vs a driver with mid-90's sensitivity given the two things I mentioned above. If you were to model both with the same power input (at a given nominal load) you would often find the higher-sensitivity driver has significantly more output an octave or two above Fs than the mid-sensitivity driver, but as you get closer and closer to Fs, the output of the higher sensitivity driver will likely be close to or lower than the mid-sensitivity driver's output. This is simply a game of trade offs. I've modeled this kind of comparison too many times to count with all sorts of drivers/enclosure combos and it's almost always the same story. The real driving factor, IMHO, is going to be the final 'curve' you target; specifically the relative output level between 100-200hz vs the midrange/high-frequency band (and the reason I say this is because nearly everyone in car audio uses a curve that has a rise in output beginning around 200-300hz down to 20hz which is most often driven by the acoustics of the car... IOW, a 'natural' car curve using mid-sensitivity drivers). Then weigh that 'curve' against the overall output level you want to achieve (i.e., 85dB 'fullrange' or 110dB 'fullrange', where 'fullrange' would be the average output level from 20-20khz).


----------



## Eric Stevens

DeLander said:


> Looking at the response/ impedance graphs, the impedance rises quickly from about 300Hz at 2 ohms to around 10 ohms at about 80 Hz. I’m really getting confused looking at graphs and specs for different drivers.
> Does this rising impedance mean that there would significantly reduced output below 300Hz all the way down to 80Hz, with 80Hz being really low on output ?
> I’m looking for either 8” or 10” midbasses for my doors running about 63 (or 80 Hz ) up to around 400-500Hz. I need something with a lot of output to keep up with my ported Alpine Type S 15 substage.


The impedance rises at resonance due to more cone movement but this normalizes the output. So as the impedance rises and power is lower the driver is actually more sensitive (higher cone movement) so with the lower power and higher sesitivity due the response is flat. 

The impedance curve of the speaker wont appear or have an effect on the Frequency response unless used with a very low damping factor amplifier.

The response curves I posted are so you can see the high frequency behaviour as the low frequency is more dominated by the enclosure and the T/S parameters.


----------



## DeLander

Thanks Erin and Eric. 
I understand a lot more now. 
Eric, are the only posted T/S parameters the ones that show up on the bottom of the impedance graph? If not, where can I find the full specs ?
Thanks


----------



## Eric Stevens

DeLander said:


> Thanks Erin and Eric.
> I understand a lot more now.
> Eric, are the only posted T/S parameters the ones that show up on the bottom of the impedance graph? If not, where can I find the full specs ?
> Thanks


Everything is there on the impdeance graph I believe. If you need something else let me know.


----------



## DeLander

Yeah, I see them Eric. Thank you. 
Could you post physical dimensions please ( specifically overall diameter, bolt hole pattern diameter, and bolt hole diameter ) ? I’m trying to program the CNC to make baffles for these drivers and I need those dimensions. Thanks again


----------



## Eric Stevens

DeLander said:


> Yeah, I see them Eric. Thank you.
> Could you post physical dimensions please ( specifically overall diameter, bolt hole pattern diameter, and bolt hole diameter ) ? I’m trying to program the CNC to make baffles for these drivers and I need those dimensions. Thanks again


I will post up the dimensions on Monday.


----------



## DeLander

Great. Thank you very much Eric. 
I’m pretty sure these will fit my baffles, I’ll just have to modify them.


----------



## Eric Stevens

MB8 physical dimensions

Overall Diameter 8.25"
Overall Height 3.825"
Mounting Depth 3.50"
Cutout Diameter 7.125"
Bolt circle 7.75" with 4 holes at 90 deg


----------



## Patrick Bateman

Eric Stevens said:


> I never said displacement wasnt important.
> 
> Its all important, and all must be considered in the process. It is not as simple as you outline and your conclusions are not correct.


Greg Timbers wrote this:

"_ I believe that solid Dynamic behavior is most important to get lifelike sound. Dynamics require high efficiency since transducers are pitiful in energy conversion._"

When I rant about displacement, some people might assume that I don't think efficiency matters. It's not that I don't think that it matters; _it's that I don't care about how I get there._ For instance, I've seen people seek midranges with efficiencies north of 95dB. My current project uses a midrange with an efficiency of 84dB. Which is why I use four of them. I take four low-efficiency midranges, I wire them series-parallel, voila! I have an array with an efficiency of 90dB. 

My affection for soft dome tweeters came as a surprise to me. I have generally used compression drivers. If someone had told me that a $19 tweeter on a waveguide can see an efficiency 'boost' to over 102dB, *I wouldn't have believed it.*

For me, tweeters have always been the weak link in loudspeakers. I can use my 'array' trick to get to just about any efficiency within reason. *But arraying tweeters doesn't work so hot.*(1) So the tweeter becomes the weak link. If you're limited to one tweeter, it better be special.

Obviously I copy Danley all the time, and you see the same thing in Danley's loudspeakers. Arguably the company wouldn't be as successful as they are if they hadn't come up with a way to array tweeters.


(1) If someone is wondering why arraying tweeters doesn't work so well, it's because arraying tweeters doesn't raise their SPL at the top end. IE, if you have an array of ten tweeters stacked vertically, *the maximum SPL at the top end of their response is no louder than a single unit.* This is because of pathlength differences. To get two speakers to sum constructively, the two devices need to be within about one third of a wavelength. At 1000Hz, this is very easily done. Just put two drivers within 4.5" of eachother. To do the same thing at 10Khz, they must be within 0.45"! Danley's Paraline and Layered Combiner patents basically reflect the wavefront and re-combine it, so that the pathlength of multiple devices is equal. Alex Voishvillo's dual diaphragm compression drivers do the same thing also.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

ErinH said:


> 3 things that might help you:
> 
> Part A: In general, higher sensitivity drivers have a higher Fs (the resonant point of a speaker) than mid/lower sensitivity drivers _of the same size_. That's just a primary trade off between high and low(er) sensitivity drivers.
> 
> That's Part A. Part 2 is coupling the Fs to Qts. The lower the Qts, the earlier the acoustic rolloff starts but it's also more gradual. Say, for instance, if the Qts is 0.20 and the Fs is 100hz, you might be down 3dB at 100hz from 300hz but if you had a Qts of 0.7 you might be down 10dB at 100hz from 300hz (these numbers are made up only to provide an example of what I mean; you can find real world examples by pulling up various spec sheets). The Qts impact is regardless of sensitivity; it acts the same for all speaker types.
> I can't see the specs of this particular midbass driver, but FWIW 2ohms to 8ohms isn't that drastic of a dropoff between 2 octaves, IMHO. Seems par for the course for higher-sensitivity drivers with low-to-mid Qts.
> 
> 
> Part D: When you factor in sensitivity and enclosure/type, your concerns may be made moot. Modeling drivers with something like WinISD or BassBoxPro is practically necessary to understand differences in how two drivers' baseline response will play out. _Especially _so when comparing a driver with mid-to-upper 80's sensitivity vs a driver with mid-90's sensitivity given the two things I mentioned above. If you were to model both with the same power input (at a given nominal load) you would often find the higher-sensitivity driver has significantly more output an octave or two above Fs than the mid-sensitivity driver, but as you get closer and closer to Fs, the output of the higher sensitivity driver will likely be close to or lower than the mid-sensitivity driver's output. This is simply a game of trade offs. I've modeled this kind of comparison too many times to count with all sorts of drivers/enclosure combos and it's almost always the same story. The real driving factor, IMHO, is going to be the final 'curve' you target; specifically the relative output level between 100-200hz vs the midrange/high-frequency band (and the reason I say this is because nearly everyone in car audio uses a curve that has a rise in output beginning around 200-300hz down to 20hz which is most often driven by the acoustics of the car... IOW, a 'natural' car curve using mid-sensitivity drivers). Then weigh that 'curve' against the overall output level you want to achieve (i.e., 85dB 'fullrange' or 110dB 'fullrange', where 'fullrange' would be the average output level from 20-20khz).


Geoff Martin from Bang & Olufsen posted something on his blog that's relevant here:

_Dear Geoff, I recently discovered your blog. Very enlightening. Thankful that you share your knowledge so genereously!

I have a question about the development of the Beolab 50s and 90s. Why have you put so much amplifier power in them? Is it needed? Does it improve sound quality or dynamics on moderate volumes as well, or is it mainly to allow them to play very loud if needed? I’m asking from the perspective of someone who still dabbles in speakers without built-in amplification, and I’ve been having an argument with myself as to the merits of using over-powered amplifiers._


geoff says:
2017/10/28 at 4:45 PM
Hi Olav,

I’m not sure that I can answer your question completely, but I’ll try to come close…

The easiest way to view this issue is to work backwards. We start with a target maximum SPL from our loudspeaker. This is not as simple as it sounds, since this has to take the issue of time into account. This is because the maximum amount of sound pressure that a loudspeaker can deliver is not only dependent on its instantaneous maximum excursion (which may be linked to an acceptable amount of distortion) but other factors such as the product’s ability to pull heat away from the voice coil. However, to keep things simple, let’s assume a one-dimensional case where we want to push and pull the driver to its excursion limit (however that might be defined…).

We can calculate and/or measure the amount of voltage that is required to move the driver to this desired excursion. So, basically speaking, the amplifier applies the voltage that we want, and the impedance of the driver dictates the current that is demanded from the amp as a result. As long as the amplifier (and power supply) can deliver the necessary current at the voltage we’re applying, then we’re happy.

In the case of Bang & Olufsen loudspeakers, we have the advantage that we make active loudspeakers – therefore we can define the requirements of the amplifier based on the desired behaviour of a single driver. If you’re designing loudspeakers with passive crossovers, then this is different…

What this means in the end is that, from a perspective of the electrical design of the loudspeaker, we don’t really care about power directly. We ensure that the amplifier can deliver the voltage swing that we require – and that the resulting current is available. So, for example, in the case of the woofer amp’s for the BeoLab 90, we did not say “we need a 1000 W amp on each driver”. We stated a minimum requirement for the voltage and current, and then used an amplifier that could deliver this.

There is another way to look at this – which is a small window into our world. Let’s say that you have two amplifiers, amp “A” and and amp “B”. Both are rated at being able to deliver 1000 W. However, Amp “A” can deliver 20 V and 50 Amps (20 V * 50 A = 1000 W). Amp “B” can deliver 50 V and 20 Amps (50 V * 20 A = 1000 W). These two amps will behave very differently at high levels. So, although it’s nice for the marketing materials to state how many watts an amplifier or an active loudspeaker has, this is basically unable information for the people that are doing the loudspeaker design. When we’re developing a loudspeaker, we almost never talk about the power capabilities of our amplifiers. We have to use the Voltage and Current capabilities instead.

Of course, if you’re designing your system so that your amplifiers are current sources instead of voltage sources, then everything I said above is different – but similar… You’re just looking at the problem from a different perspective. But you still don’t directly worry about the power capabilities of the amp(s).

In fact, the only really useful power value for our loudspeakers is the one that tells you the average power consumption over time. This lets you know how much it costs per hour (on your electricity bill) to listen to your loudspeakers.

Hope this is reasonably clear… 

Cheers
– geoff 

BeoLab 50 Reviews – earfluff and eyecandy


----------



## DeLander

Merry Christmas everyone. 
I got my Stevens Audio MB-8 4 ohm midbasses for Christmas today. Will get them installed tomorrow and post my initial impressions then. 
Big THANK YOU to Eric for getting these shipped in time for me to be blessed with them as presents from my family. 
Just wondering, should I start a new thread or just continue in this one ?
Todd


----------



## Eric Stevens

DeLander said:


> Merry Christmas everyone.
> I got my Stevens Audio MB-8 4 ohm midbasses for Christmas today. Will get them installed tomorrow and post my initial impressions then.
> Big THANK YOU to Eric for getting these shipped in time for me to be blessed with them as presents from my family.
> Just wondering, should I start a new thread or just continue in this one ?
> Todd


Todd,

I would start another so its not buried in tis thread


----------



## DeLander

Eric Stevens said:


> Todd,
> 
> I would start another so its not buried in tis thread


Will do Eric. Thanks. 
Any initial settings in particular for these ( like gain settings, x-overs, slopes )? I’m thinking HP at 80Hz 24 dB slope with minimal gain on amp to let them break in some at first. Especially since it’s cold here.


----------



## Eric Stevens

DeLander said:


> Will do Eric. Thanks.
> Any initial settings in particular for these ( like gain settings, x-overs, slopes )? I’m thinking HP at 80Hz 24 dB slope with minimal gain on amp to let them break in some at first. Especially since it’s cold here.


70 to 80Hz high pass at 24dB is good for low pass it really depends on rest of the system. Dont baby them but when its cold it will take them a little while to warm up. The Suspension will soften up in the first 6 to 10 hours and give them more oomph and warmth on the bottom end.


----------



## DeLander

Eric Stevens said:


> 70 to 80Hz high pass at 24dB is good for low pass it really depends on rest of the system. Dont baby them but when its cold it will take them a little while to warm up. The Suspension will soften up in the first 6 to 10 hours and give them more oomph and warmth on the bottom end.


Great. Thanks again Eric. I hope these perform as well as they look and feel. They are definitely “ substantial “. Will start a new thread after install is done and I get a chance to listen to them for a while tomorrow.


----------



## Jscoyne2

I know this has been asked somewhere but ima ask again. Any plans on a 10?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## Eric Stevens

Jscoyne2 said:


> I know this has been asked somewhere but ima ask again. Any plans on a 10?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


Yes there are plans for a 10" also. No release date yet though.


----------



## dcfis

reaper68 said:


> Got them I'll try to get the install rolling and report back they will be ran active via minidsp with ~75 rms to the HLCD and ~250 on the MB-8's


Any pic of install in the Honda?


----------



## dcfis

reaper68 said:


> Well they will fit depth wise with a .75" spacer with about .125" gap from the crash bar in the door. However, the door is going to need some cut off wheel love to fit the mass magnets and frames on these. The plastic in the door may need to have the "Gasket" lip that they have molded into it trimmed some but it should work I'll get some pics up when I start hacking and slashing.


Any success?


----------



## dcfis

Not MB8 but MB6 I picked up and got them installed. They are BIG, Bigger than the SB17 by quite a bit. These things change alot. I though my ears and mic cal were off as I was getting different results from the first tune. Only got about 4 hours on them and they are fleshing out nicely. Reminds me of some high precision and sensitive home audio speakers. They seem to have a ton of potential though I need to let them settle to get a tune that is smooth. 

Also Running without sub at the moment and have them at 65HZ for break in purposes. I give up long before they do. Got a theoretical 300 watts to each of them


----------



## Eric Stevens

dcfis said:


> Not MB8 but MB6 I picked up and got them installed. They are BIG, Bigger than the SB17 by quite a bit. These things change alot. I though my ears and mic cal were off as I was getting different results from the first tune. Only got about 4 hours on them and they are fleshing out nicely. Reminds me of some high precision and sensitive home audio speakers. They seem to have a ton of potential though I need to let them settle to get a tune that is smooth.
> 
> Also Running without sub at the moment and have them at 65HZ for break in purposes. I give up long before they do. Got a theoretical 300 watts to each of them


Glad they are working well, They settle in after about 10 hours.


----------



## bbfoto

Eric Stevens said:


> Glad they are working well, They settle in after about 10 hours.


Interested in the MB-8 drivers for a new project.

On a side note, it would be great if you "burned them in" as part of QC before they were shipped out to dealers.


----------



## dcfis

Burn in would be nice but so time consuming. It would first add to the end cost. If he says 10 hours that's pretty quick, but i see your point as people in this price bracket and the need for instant gratification will turn some people off, but i think this is a more specialized group than the average car audio purchase


----------



## Lou Frasier2

mine should be shipping sometime this week and i do not mind if it takes 20 hours, patience is key in not ruining something this nice


----------



## DeLander

I don’t have a lot of experience with this kind of thing, but, I noticed my MB-8 midbasses really came to life after about 15 hours or so. This is with listening to them at moderate volumes for my round trips to work for about a week and letting them play while parked in the driveway.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

DeLander said:


> I don’t have a lot of experience with this kind of thing, but, I noticed my MB-8 midbasses really came to life after about 15 hours or so. This is with listening to them at moderate volumes for my round trips to work for about a week and letting them play while parked in the driveway.


The parameters of a loudspeaker change quite a bit after being played for a while. They also change as the driver ages. I have drivers I bought ten years ago which measure quite a bit different than when I bought them.


----------



## Brules

Some pics of the updated MB8. If Eric sees this he can post spec if they changed. All I know is the surround is improved for a little more Xmax. These are mine and will be going in my build in a week or 2 I hope!


----------



## bbfoto

^Nice. Can you post the overall diameter, top mounting depth, and magnet diameter?


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## Eric Stevens

the specifications havent changed with the revised surround. It just improves suspension linearity


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## dcfis

Pics of new surrounds? Any change on the mb6? Any plans for an all out (shortening ring, more xmax) mb series?


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## Brules

Dimensions are somewhere back around page 1-4 I think. ? No idea if anything is changing on the MB6.....we only noticed as they look a little different. Cant wait to get them in!!!!


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## Eric Stevens

dcfis said:


> Pics of new surrounds? Any change on the mb6? Any plans for an all out (shortening ring, more xmax) mb series?



Pics of the new surrounds are a few posts prior to this. 

Their is a plans for an all out driver, no time frame for the release though.

MB6 is unchanged.


----------



## Eric Stevens

bbfoto said:


> ^Nice. Can you post the overall diameter, top mounting depth, and magnet diameter?


OD is 8.2 rounding up 
Mounting depth is 3.5"
Magnet diameter is 155mm


----------



## Brules

Eric Stevens said:


> Pics of the new surrounds are a few posts prior to this.
> 
> Their is a plans for an all out driver, no time frame for the release though.
> 
> MB6 is unchanged.


Ooooooo MB8 with shorting rings etc would be epic.


----------



## dcfis

So no to mb6 upgrade? The Sr 6 fills that role? 



Eric Stevens said:


> dcfis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pics of new surrounds? Any change on the mb6? Any plans for an all out (shortening ring, more xmax) mb series?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pics of the new surrounds are a few posts prior to this.
> 
> Their is a plans for an all out driver, no time frame for the release though.
> 
> MB6 is unchanged.
Click to expand...


----------



## bbfoto

Eric Stevens said:


> the specifications havent changed with the revised surround. It just improves suspension linearity.





Eric Stevens said:


> OD is 8.2 rounding up
> Mounting depth is 3.5"
> Magnet diameter is 155mm



Copy that, thanks. Just so its all in one place...

*Stevens Audio MB-8 Midbass physical dimensions:

Overall Diameter: 8.25"
Overall Height: 3.825"
Top Mounting Depth: 3.50"
Cutout Diameter: 7.125"
Magnet Diameter: 6.10" (155mm)
Bolt Circle: 7.75" with 4 holes at 90°*





Brules said:


> Ooooooo MB8 with shorting rings etc would be epic.


...AND a Compact Neo Motor with the Neo slugs _inside_ the voice coil. I checked 4 of my vehicles for possible fitment in either the doors or kickpanels, and there ain't no way the current MB-8 will fit without serious mods and structural/operational/cosmetic compromises that I'm not willing to make. 

The mounting depth is actually quite decent for an 8" driver, it's just the ginormous magnet that is making fitment a significant issue. I'd love to use a higher efficiency driver like this one, but due to mounting options I keep coming back to the Illusion Carbon C8, which is a great driver, but a completely different animal. There's a bit of a price difference as well, haha, but it's worth it to me if it allows me to actually use it.

I guess Eric needs to come out with an SA-series 8" midbass. 


ERIC, if I stop by your shop in Glendora, do you have a demo vehicle using the MB-8 and/or one using the SA-6CS comp set, in addition to the SA10 subwoofer?

My office is in South Pasadena, so not too far away via I-210.


----------



## Brules

An SA8 would be a beast. I love my SA6!


----------



## rton20s

I am sure Eric will chime back in, but I believe he has Neo motor versions in the works. Don't recall if he talked about it in this thread, or one of the others. I have been patiently awaiting the official announcement and specs for the Neo 8 in both 2 and 4 Ohm.


----------



## Eric Stevens

I have Neo mid-bass drivers in the works but can only do so much so fast


----------



## Brules

Neo 8"?!?!? 

Sign me up!


----------



## robi17

I really surprised to read this


----------



## seafish

robi17 said:


> I really surprised to read this


Since you are likely a chatbot, it is no wonder that you are surprised!!


----------



## JI808

I'm running the MB8-2s in the kick panels with the neo mini horns under the dash in the Chevelle. Currently powering it all off of a Mosconi AS 100.4.

The MB8s get down. I can feel them in the floorboards. Soon they'll be on an AS 200.2. 

If a Neo MB8-2 comes out I'm definitely down for a pair.


----------



## Jscoyne2

Taps foot, waiting for a 10.


----------



## Eric Stevens

Jscoyne2 said:


> Taps foot, waiting for a 10.


I would love to do and have everything now, reality is we have to pick and choose .


----------



## dcfis

Neo6! Please.


----------



## zacjones99

MB8-2 Neo sighting! Preliminary pricing is double that of ferrite version. NicE!


----------



## Mic10is

zacjones99 said:


> MB8-2 Neo sighting! Preliminary pricing is double that of ferrite version. NicE!


Special order only. currently not available in US


----------



## banshee28

Mic10is said:


> Special order only. currently not available in US


So, been meaning to ask this. I have an older 3-series BMW currently with 10" Morel shallow mount subs under the seats. I dont think they are planning high enough (up to 200Hz or so) midbass according to REW when I last checked. 

Would these fit under the seats even if I had to modify the enclosure somewhat? Currently they are modded alot to fit the 10". Im sure the 10's may get lower but i have a 15" IB SUB for 60Hz and below. Just wondering if something like these would be better, or maybe if there was a 10" even better. :laugh:


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## dcfis

I hope the mb6 gets the high end neo or shortening ring treatment. It deserves it


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## Mic10is

banshee28 said:


> So, been meaning to ask this. I have an older 3-series BMW currently with 10" Morel shallow mount subs under the seats. I dont think they are planning high enough (up to 200Hz or so) midbass according to REW when I last checked.
> 
> Would these fit under the seats even if I had to modify the enclosure somewhat? Currently they are modded alot to fit the 10". Im sure the 10's may get lower but i have a 15" IB SUB for 60Hz and below. Just wondering if something like these would be better, or maybe if there was a 10" even better. :laugh:


I run MB8 playing to 52hz for judging and 58hz while driving
the Mb8 or Neo8 is going to sound faster and be more detailed in midbass response than the Morel


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## nyquistrate

zacjones99 said:


> MB8-2 Neo sighting! Preliminary pricing is double that of ferrite version. NicE!


- Installation diameter: 185mm
- Outside diameter: 209mm
- Mounting hole circle: 8 x 5mm to 197mm
- installation depth: 94mm
- Neodymium magnet diameter: 85mm


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## banshee28

Mic10is said:


> I run MB8 playing to 52hz for judging and 58hz while driving
> the Mb8 or Neo8 is going to sound faster and be more detailed in midbass response than the Morel


That sounds like what I "Need" :laugh::laugh:

Now, will check specs to see if they will fit. However where can I purchase these in the US, and is this neo 2 a new version I should wait for?


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## Mic10is

banshee28 said:


> That sounds like what I "Need" :laugh::laugh:
> 
> Now, will check specs to see if they will fit. However where can I purchase these in the US, and is this neo 2 a new version I should wait for?


the regular MB8 u can purchase directly from Eric Stevens at Stevens Audio. 
scroll through the posts to find the FB page that directs you to his sales page.
they are usually in stock.

and as I mentioned. the NEO version arent going to be in US soon. they really arent new. I had a beta version a few years ago, but didnt think I'd meed an 8....(I was wrong)
But production is a special order, plus shipping which is higher now bc of all the tariffs etc...

you wont be disappointed w the regular MB8


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## Mic10is

For now contact me by PM or email until the website is launched very soon. 
[email protected]


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## banshee28

Mic10is said:


> the regular MB8 u can purchase directly from Eric Stevens at Stevens Audio.
> scroll through the posts to find the FB page that directs you to his sales page.
> they are usually in stock.
> 
> and as I mentioned. the NEO version arent going to be in US soon. they really arent new. I had a beta version a few years ago, but didnt think I'd meed an 8....(I was wrong)
> But production is a special order, plus shipping which is higher now bc of all the tariffs etc...
> 
> you wont be disappointed w the regular MB8





Mic10is said:


> For now contact me by PM or email until the website is launched very soon.
> [email protected]


Perfect, thanks for the info!


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## 96jimmyslt

Any updates? Website would be nice. Even eBay. I don't use facebook anymore.


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