# Coming Soon, ILLUSION



## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

So nice... what do ya'll think.... Carbons should be shipping later in month.. greatness returns....


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

very interesting, do they have a website? any more info?


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

jel847 said:


> very interesting, do they have a website? any more info?


not right now... , I should be having more info in next week or so, have a order pending now...

They have the :

CARBON
LUCENT
ELECTRA


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

anybody REMEMBER the PHANTOM on wall speakers that utilized the Illusion ND-8 woofers.. They were so far ahead of their time at that moment.. a onwall speaker with 8" woofers that were only a few inches deep... I still have mine next to my Plasma.. and still sound great.. They were so damn expensive then, but a happy purchase.


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## hemi4me? (Apr 30, 2008)

Were / Are they out of AZ? PHX?


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## Bndrulez (Feb 3, 2008)

I've never even heard of it. Looks quite interesting though.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

Bndrulez said:


> I've never even heard of it. Looks quite interesting though.


Really, they were one of the highest end companies out there, then they went out of business... Line is being reintroduced now.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

hemi4me? said:


> Were / Are they out of AZ? PHX?


No, but i believe originally they were. Speakers i believe are being made in Germany, was a few days of long discussions on the new line, and dont remember everything brought up.. Will have to reconfirm with my rep.


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

hell yea! i ran a set of 8" carbons, paired with a set of morel 4" coaxs, many years ago. that was probably the best midbass i ever had. (i had them in sealed boxes hanging on the doors of a 72' dodge truck) im definately watching this.


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## CHEMMINS (Mar 7, 2011)

Beautiful.....

Almost brings a tear to my eye.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

cajunner said:


> misprint on Carbon price list, 129 for the 4" coax has to be wrong.


wow, dont know how i missed that either, have to check on that, it has to be way wrong, thats the price on the electra


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## BassAddictJ (Oct 1, 2009)

i use a pair of lucent 6.5's for decicated midbass in sealed kick pods, 80hz to 500hz off about 100w rms and they are teh sex.....i bet the carbon ones are verrrrrrrry nice


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

No CH-1 HLCD's anymore...


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

i have a friend that has some coming soon. I will also be interested in trying some out to see what they can do


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## Fast1one (Apr 6, 2007)

Do I only see one inductor? What do they plan on using as a crossover alignment, hopes and dreams?


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

why is this in the classifieds?


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## Salad Fingers (Jun 14, 2009)

el_chupo_ said:


> why is this in the classifieds?


Thank you!!!!!


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

i too am excited about this...some of what i heard from my rep is impressive, i can't wait to see them in person.


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## Salad Fingers (Jun 14, 2009)

From what I understand it's all built in India. That is a good thing?


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## Eastman474 (Jan 8, 2010)

I would love to see them come out with some new hlcd stuff.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

SQram said:


> No CH-1 HLCD's anymore...


Good thing I've got my pair. epper: It would be cool to see them come out with some new horns, especially with ID leaving the market for awhile. Perfect time to come out with something.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

SQram said:


> No CH-1 HLCD's anymore...


not right now, but there has been talk...


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

el_chupo_ said:


> why is this in the classifieds?


put in wrong area, but you can skip right over it.........

Mods feel free to move please


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

Salad Fingers said:


> Thank you!!!!!


your welcome, i guess


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

Salad Fingers said:


> From what I understand it's all built in India. That is a good thing?


hmmmm really dont think so.. from my initial conversation with rep before placing order im pretty sure Germany was brought up, but i am going to clarify that this week, one way or other, and will post up... Im on board, they were way too good of a line before, and they have their backing in place now.


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## Salad Fingers (Jun 14, 2009)

dman said:


> hmmmm really dont think so.. from my initial conversation with rep before placing order im pretty sure Germany was brought up, but i am going to clarify that this week, one way or other, and will post up... Im on board, they were way too good of a line before, and they have their backing in place now.


Pete Daily?


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Illusion - Wasn't this the brand that had a fake address as Corp HQ? The drivers said "Designed in USA" and pretty sure the speakers were assembled somewhere in India. The speakers were available here for much less than the listed USD prices. 

Average sounding speakers.


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

No T/S specs = no go


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

If you go to the Peerless India website, you can see pictures and stuff of the Illusion drivers. Peerless India built the drivers after they went overseas. 

The re-release of Illusion Audio has been in the making for about 7 years now.

http://www.peerlessaudio.com/companyprofile.asp


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

What is that 15" sub I see on their site?

Products - PeerlessAudio.com


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> If you go to the Peerless India website, you can see pictures and stuff of the Illusion drivers. Peerless India built the drivers after they went overseas.
> 
> The re-release of Illusion Audio has been in the making for about 7 years now.
> 
> Products - PeerlessAudio.com


yes, i remember that.. I know has been a forever wait.. There was rumor in i think 2007 about a rerelease that never happened, or 2008. As with anything over time you hear a ton of different stories...


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## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

dman said:


> hmmmm really dont think so.. from my initial conversation with rep before placing order im pretty sure Germany was brought up, but i am going to clarify that this week, one way or other, and will post up... Im on board, they were way too good of a line before, and they have their backing in place now.




We have used Indian made illusion stuff for a few years now. From The highend carbons to the entry level electra. All are doing perfectly.well and.sound quite good for their respective price points. 
Even if you guys are getting the Indian made stuff, rest assured they'll sound as good

My money is on an indian set. Doubt it'd be German.
@dman. Indian products are quite the dark horses. You must have heard of Peerless India right?? Shy not from letting the public know its indian. I'd say its better than it being made in china


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

frankmehta said:


> We have used Indian made illusion stuff for a few years now. From The highend carbons to the entry level electra. All are doing perfectly.well and.sound quite good for their respective price points.
> Even if you guys are getting the Indian made stuff, rest assured they'll sound as good
> 
> My money is on an indian set. Doubt it'd be German.
> @dman. Indian products are quite the dark horses. You must have heard of Peerless India right?? Shy not from letting the public know its indian. I'd say its better than it being made in china


yes, familiar with peerless... i still have a set of tweet replacements (Denmark), and from all the stuff i carried in the past, i dont have a damn clue what they go to or i would have sold them before, lol.. Yes made in india a good plus.. I just dont remember where i was told, Illusion wasnt the only brand we were discussing, and damn swear a reference was made to germany on something, lol..


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

Frankmehta, any chance you can track down what a set of butterfly coils go to, even though they were peerless Denmark? ive got cat. no... They only come up as discontinued, with no other informaiton.. I used to carry quite a bit of Kef parts way many years ago, but not sure if peerless ever made any parts for KEF, any way if you think you may have some luck, let me know and i can send you info. or post a pic. here.. (it would be home product)


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## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

Send me an email. I'll figure it out if I can. Cheers!


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

OK, Update... seems with all we were talking about many things were tossed in and out, i better get better at taking notes... LOL..

Anyway: CONFIRMED, new Illusion IS being made by Peerless India...


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## TheHulk9er (Oct 28, 2010)

The original company was started by the son of one of the principals of Infinity, Carry Chrisy III. I know this because I bought his demo car back in 2000. It had the horns, 8 in kicks, and a pair of 15" in the trunk. Needed almost no EQ. Very nice until I totaled the car.:bigcry:

I still get sad about it.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

That was a beautiful install. I loved the plexi baffle the 15s were on. And not to mention the Blade amps.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

I saw the Illusion drivers at this past SBN, stuff looks great. I think Orca is bring them in.


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

Early 90's Honda Accord with a pair of Nd-15's IB, one was inverted on the baffle...correct?

Beautiful car, sorry to hear it is no longer...


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Orca connection is confirmed


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## TheHulk9er (Oct 28, 2010)

Yep, it was a grean Honda Accord SE. The blade amp was part of the plexi sub enclosure that would rotate to allow the amp to slowly slide out at the push of a button on the (security system) remote. The ND 8's were in their own enclosures that were mounted into the kick panels. Looked totally stock as everything was wrapped to match the rest of the interior. 

I feel asleep in the car coming home from Ravens Monday Night football game that had been moved until the end of the season because of 911. Not even much of an accident. Car was stripped while waiting for the insurance company to give me an estimate (it was at their vehicle evaluation center) They pried the plexi sub out with a crow bar. :furious:

Speaking of a quality product that I would also like to see come back - how about blade audio. That was such a cool idea - small mono amps - put out over a 100 watts each - you pick out the number of modules - which determines the size of the amp. Great sound too.


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## brackac (May 2, 2011)

So, is this the third coming of IA? I ran a pair of Nd-15s years ago.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

brackac said:


> So, is this the third coming of IA? I ran a pair of Nd-15s years ago.


I guess we will have to wait and see. I think they had a window of opportunity several years ago to make a comeback but....I think their target market is questionable in this region. The hi end market has always been a tough and there are many decent drivers around.

Anyway, I though the 5 1/4" Carbons made for a very nice midrange driver.


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## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

When are these coming back on sale??


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

I see some nice and shallow center channel  

Kelvin


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

hope to have a variety of these products in my possession by the end of the month for a build i'm doing. will let you all know.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

awesome. ive always wanted the ND-8 carbon drivers.

great news this is!!


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

the new 8" Carbon components and the new 12" Carbon Shallow sub are the highlight of the build. i'm excited all kinds about this.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

sqnut said:


> Average sounding speakers.


My thoughts, too. And a grand for a pair of Indian-made 8" woofers and tweeters is a joke. Even with the skyrocketing price of neo.

Not neo, but note that GR Research sells a Peerless India 6.5" midwoofer with an XBL^2 midwoofer for $90 a pair.



dman said:


> yes, familiar with peerless... i still have a set of tweet replacements (Denmark),


Peerless the division of Tymphany (which was the Danish firm) is totally separate from Peerless India.



dman said:


> I used to carry quite a bit of Kef parts way many years ago, but not sure if peerless ever made any parts for KEF


Not to my knowledge. KEF was at one point a big drive-unit supplier to others.


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## hybridspl (May 9, 2008)

Subscribed!!!


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## stuckinok (Jul 22, 2008)

Hey everyone,

I'm posting these pictures for Cobb. Today we received a nice package of Illusion product for our SEMA project. We got in the 6.5 Carbon Co-Ax, C8 Components and 12in Carbon Subs. Here is just a teaser shots. I'm proud to say we are the first Retail Shop to have these for a install.

Enjoy... The C8 Components


























Will post more pics after re-sizing...


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

NICE


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

req said:


> awesome. ive always wanted the ND-8 carbon drivers.
> 
> great news this is!!


For the weight savings?


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## Chrisandalex1 (Sep 25, 2009)

stuckinok said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I'm posting these pictures for Cobb. Today we received a nice package of Illusion product for our SEMA project. We got in the 6.5 Carbon Co-Ax, C8 Components and 12in Carbon Subs. Here is just a teaser shots. I'm proud to say we are the first Retail Shop to have these for a install.
> 
> ...


So, I think it is really cool to have the 1st vehicle in the country to run the new Illusion Carbon Line. 

Cobb has been working tirelessly with Orca to get this all done for the ADD/JPM Coachworks Luxury Performance Raptor. 

I must give a huge shoot out to Orca for getting all the product to us for this project. It was not easy. They had to hand make the crossovers for the system.

We will be posting pictures of the entire system later today, and if you would like to follow the build you can also check out the following:

Luxury Performance Raptor | Facebook

Thanks for the hard work Cobb. I can't wait to hear and see the results.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Chrisandalex1 said:


> So, I think it is really cool to have the 1st vehicle in the country to run the new Illusion Carbon Line.
> 
> Cobb has been working tirelessly with Orca to get this all done for the ADD/JPM Coachworks Luxury Performance Raptor.
> 
> ...


Why take the time and effort going passive when most decent HU's already support 3-way active?


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## stuckinok (Jul 22, 2008)

BowDown said:


> Why take the time and effort going passive when most decent HU's already support 3-way active?


The Raptor has an outstanding OEM 10in Touchscreen Navi Sync unit. The owner wanted to keep all that intact and I don't blame him. We will be using an Audiocontrol LCQ1 for integration.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Chrisandalex1 said:


> I must give a huge shoot out to Orca for getting all the product to us for this project. It was not easy. They had to hand make the crossovers for the system.


Are the filters made based on measurements of the drive-units as installed in the car, or are they just generic units?

If the former, certainly nothing wrong with passives!


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Is there anything really new to these, or "new" as in just came out with the same old stuff again?


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## Chrisandalex1 (Sep 25, 2009)

The relaunch of Illusion Audio is being spearheaded by Orca Design and Manufacturing, and the project is being handled by Duane Pilgrim and Alan Hulsebus. I asked Duane to give a few words regarding the relaunch. I will precursor this by saying that they are working on official release info, and I put him on the spot to give us a few words. 

The following is the info he sent to me:


The Carbon Series :

- C12 Slim a 12" driver that has the Xmax of a conventional design subwoofer in a slim design. It has a very stiff yet lightweight woven carbon fiber cone with a 3" voice coil.

- The Carbon Series Tweeter is beryllium/copper dome with a cast aluminum back chamber with a low FS, which lets us use a lower crossover point. This can help us obtain a higher front stage with better imaging. 

- Illusion Audio 

Arrived on the scene in the late 90's. It had a great reputation for slim drivers, sound quality, and reliability. The U.S distribution shut down in the early part of 2000. At Orca Design and Manufacturing, we saw great potential for this line and want to resurrect it back to be bigger and better than it ever was.

We have a lot of dealers waiting for its launch and nobody will be disappointed in the product.


After a partial redesign and completing the entry level line the "Electra Series" The Orca Team see the finish line, and after a few postponements we are working towards a Sept 2011 launch.

The ADD/JPM Coachworks Luxury Performance Raptor will be our first showing of the illusion products in the U.S.A and will be debuted at the SEMA show in Las Vegas. We are looking forward to seeing this over the top project completed.


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## 12Volt (Oct 9, 2009)

DS-21 said:


> Are the filters made based on measurements of the drive-units as installed in the car, or are they just generic units.
> 
> If the former, certainly nothing wrong with passives!


Hello DS-21,
Yes, they are built around these exact drivers and engineered
around fairly conventional install positions that are being used in this Raptor. They are bi-ampable with 6 fine adjustments for the tweeters
and a polyswitch used to reliably protect them from being over driven .We are using the Axon polypropylene caps and air core coils. The power handling on this kit is so good I don't even know what power handling numbers to print in the owners manual. Especially when looking at other brands printed specs. Anyway I won't ramble. Best Regards.


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## 12Volt (Oct 9, 2009)

BeatsDownLow said:


> Is there anything really new to these, or "new" as in just came out with the same old stuff again?


The look of most of the baskets are similar but thats where the similarities end.

- better overall sound quality
- more excursion than most conventional rear magnet midbass drivers.
- new copper/beryllium tweeter with cast alum. rear chamber for a 800 hz FS.
- old tweeter from the top end Carbon line has been moved down to the Luccent line below.
- better reliability. (it was also good before mind you)
- an entry level line called "Electra" which sounds anything but entry level.

I will stop so not to bore everyone.

I've been listening to this product for about 4.5 hrs each day now for over a year (to and from Orca's office) and its good sounding product. Its really easy to listen to for long periods of time. This I know with my crazy commute.

Best Regards,


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

12Volt said:


> The look of most of the baskets are similar but thats where the similarities end.
> 
> - better overall sound quality
> - more excursion than most conventional rear magnet midbass drivers.
> ...



Interesting. I am kinda intrigued by the shallow subs.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

12Volt said:


> The look of most of the baskets are similar but thats where the similarities end.
> 
> - better overall sound quality
> - more excursion than most conventional rear magnet midbass drivers.
> ...



Is there any chance of moving the wire terminals on the woofers to one spot, instead of being on opposite sides of the basket?

Nice font on the new logo


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## Chrisandalex1 (Sep 25, 2009)

In Regards to the new Logo. I had these made to mount on the speakers grills in the Raptor.








[/IMG]


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## 12Volt (Oct 9, 2009)

I know why you are asking and I agree with you. It would be easier from one side.
Its been done this way to keep the cone balanced and prevent rocking, which raises
the distortion noticeably. It also allows us to have a tighter gap for higher efficiency
and lighter weight.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

12Volt said:


> Hello DS-21,
> Yes, they are built around these exact drivers and engineered
> around fairly conventional install positions that are being used in this Raptor.***


Sigh. 

That's "generic" in my book, no matter what the spin or parts cost is.


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## sqcomp (Sep 21, 2009)

Funny, I sold my USA built ND 10's almost a year ago now...


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## stuckinok (Jul 22, 2008)

The copper/beryllium tweeter is just beautiful! A real treat. Also guys I want to say that this is going to be a great Orca build and we are excited to be part of it. I have completly changed my system plans. I now plan on running Carbon components powered by Audio System amps. This build will be powered by Mosconi.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

I am even impressed with the Carbon 6 CX coax. I honestly can't wait to get everything fired up and running. 


Sent from my iPhone


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

stuckinok said:


> *The copper/beryllium tweeter* is just beautiful! A real treat. Also guys I want to say that this is going to be a great Orca build and we are excited to be part of it. I have completly changed my system plans. I now plan on running Carbon components powered by Audio System amps. This build will be powered by Mosconi.


Any info regarding this ^? 

Kelvin


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## 12Volt (Oct 9, 2009)

Not sure I understand what you mean by generic.
If we engineered the tweeter and the midbass and then
engineered the crossovers for those drivers how is it generic?
Maybe the confusion was that fact that were hand building them for
this Raptor project. We are only hand building them because the final
production versions aren't ready yet. These were built from our schematics,
but look like prototypes thats all.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

12Volt said:


> Not sure I understand what you mean by generic. If we engineered the tweeter and the midbass and then
> engineered the crossovers for those drivers how is it generic?




Were I to buy a set of Revel Studio2 speakers, but decided to put the woofers on the bottom of the side walls, the midranges at the front corners, and the tweeters/waveguides on the front wall, and should I reasonably expect equivalent measured performance and sound quality to those drivers mounted in the Studio2's cabinets?

By the logic you've expressed above, given that Revel engineered the tweeter and the midbass and then engineered the crossovers for those drivers, my expectation above would be reasonable.

But of course it's not.

In truth, there are two types of passive crossovers:

1) Ones designed for drive-units on baffles of a specific shape mounted in specific locations in a specific vehicle, based on measurements of and listening to those drivers in that vehicle.

2) Generic ones that are worth only their parts' scrap value.

Really, the latter adds absolutely no value whatsoever for people who actually care about music reproduction (this, mind is a distinct set from "people willing to pay large amounts of money for car audio-branded speakers) but does add to product cost.

(Also, coaxes, due to the known, fixed relationship between mid and tweeter, can have passive crossovers that work properly. They can't do much in the way of meaningful signal processing, though, so it's best if they're simple and don't try to do anything except for get a good blend in the midrange between the two drivers.)


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## 12Volt (Oct 9, 2009)

All the Illusion products (not just crossovers), from all lines including the entry level line were measured, tested, and listened to "in car" and not on display boards etc. I hope this clarifies your comment.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

12Volt said:


> All the Illusion products (not just crossovers), from all lines including the entry level line were measured, tested, and listened to "in car" and not on display boards etc. I hope this clarifies your comment.


Clarifies? Silly marketing BS does not tend to clarify anything, generally speaking. 

In fact, your post merely adds more confusion: namely, in _what_ car, mounted _where?_ 

Unless you mean to tell us that you think a crossover designed for, say, a door-mounted woofer and pillar-mounted tweeter is equally valid for a kickpanel mounted mid+tweeter (leaving aside the general utility of kp's), or a door mounted woofer and dash mounted tweeter, or a kick-mounted woofer and dash mounted tweeter, or the woofer and tweeter together in a door pod, etc. Not to mention in a car with a relatively upright windshield vs. one that is sloping, with one that has a flat doorpanel vs. one with a highly sculpted one, one in which the driver is supposed to sit more or less upright and on top of the dash vs. one where the driver is supposed to be further from the dash, etc. If that is your intention, then I must simply assume that you are deaf and move on.

To reiterate, for a passive crossover to be worth a damn it must be designed for *specific mounting locations* in a *specific vehicle.*

_Anything_ less is worth no more or less than the value of its parts as scrap.

(With the exception of a simple crossover on a coax, because the spatial relationship between mid and tweeter on a coax is fixed. In a component set, one doesn't even know whether to measure the center-to-center spacing in inches or in feet!)


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## 12Volt (Oct 9, 2009)

When designing a set of crossovers, we will have many customers with many different vehicles. We can only have 1 crossover. (I would love to be able to supply 3 different ones but thats not possible) and it needs to sound good in many different positions. Of course some positions will work better than others. Thats just the way it goes. We can only recommend to the customer where he should try and mount the tweeter for best results and if that doesnt work for that car then the 2nd option would be.. and 3rd option would be.. etc. For the more advanced customers they will probably have an eq to fine tune. If you, for an example, can't get the sound you want, using our crossover in the position your forced to mount the drivers in your vehicle, then don't use it and simple go active. Those are the options. You may just not like using passive crossovers period. I met an installer that never use any passive crossovers and thats fine too. If the customer is willing to run a good processor and has many channels to spare then why not. I do understand what your saying. 
Take it easy,


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

12Volt said:


> When designing a set of crossovers, we will have many customers with many different vehicles. We can only have 1 crossover.


That's not strictly-speaking true. You can have _none_ as well.

The honest position would be to simply say "we can't offer you a passive crossover that will make our drivers sound their best in your vehicle, because there are too many variables involved and we're committed to not offering you a hacked-together kludge and calling it a solution. So we recommend you go active or find someone who can take measurements of our drivers in your vehicle and make a passive crossover for you."

Others actually do that. HAT, for instance.



12Volt said:


> You may just not like using passive crossovers period.


Have you lost your ability to read? My first post since you came on this thread:



DS-21 said:


> If the former [i.e. passive crossovers done right, i.e. based on measurements of and listening to those drivers in those positions in a that car], certainly nothing wrong with passives!


What I don't like is generic garbage, especially _expensive_ generic garbage.

And the fact of the matter is, crossover implementation/optimization is if anything _more_ important than drive-unit quality.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

I think this got a little out of hand. Every company offers passive crossovers, INCLUDING HAT (a 2-way and 3-way are both offered as an option)!! If you'd rather run active with electronics crossovers, then just don't use the passives that come with the kit. If you'd like to run passives, then the illusion crossovers are a great out of the box option, and if you'd like to tweak them, then by all means, tweak them. Anything pre-tuned can been seen as "generic" but anything can be modified to 100% fit the application.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

Maybe i should just close the thread, lol....


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

One thing I like about ESB is their passive crossovers were built with the specific drivers in mind and only for their suggested locations. Woofers down in the door and tweets in the sail panel of a midsize sedan. The other option is tweets and mids within 2" of themselves and they offer phasing options and multiple tweeter levels on the passives and suggest settings for each location. Ive been active for years and Im am just as content with these passive in the suggested locations. 

In fact the only differences between the two reference sets that zapco sold was the crossovers. But they want them installed in a certain way otherwise suggest you dont use the passives. Thats a little too extreme for most companies but its the right way.


Alpine did a great job with their type x pro passives for example.



Otherwise, active and processing.


Illusion rep,

I had the old carbons and they required a large box for a slim sub. Has this been fixed? I ended up running them IB and loved them but Slim sub and a large box made no sense to me. Also, how much beryllium are we talking on the tweets? Around what is the copper/beryllium ratio? They look great and love that youre making a nice low fs tweeter.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

DS-21 said:


> What I don't like is generic garbage, especially _expensive_ generic garbage.
> 
> And the fact of the matter is, crossover implementation/optimization is if anything _more_ important than drive-unit quality.



Please explain to us what brands are generic garbage and what is classified as _expensive_ generic garbage.

Get the time let us know what you personally use in your cars.


I for one would love to know.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

cobb2819 said:


> I think this got a little out of hand. Every company offers passive crossovers, INCLUDING HAT (a 2-way and 3-way are both offered as an option)!!


Yes, it's reasonable to offer a "you want expensive stuff but don't particularly care about sound, here's an extra-cost option so we don't lose you as a potential customer." That, I think you will agree, is a different case.



cobb2819 said:


> If you'd rather run active with electronics crossovers, then just don't use the passives that come with the kit. If you'd like to run passives, then the illusion crossovers are a great out of the box option, and if you'd like to tweak them, then by all means, tweak them. Anything pre-tuned can been seen as "generic" but anything can be modified to 100% fit the application.


With the exception of your incorrect part ("If you'd like to run passives, then the illusion crossovers are a great out of the box option") what you're writing is basically the same thing I'm writing: included passive crossovers are useful only for the parts they contain, as scrap, for a crossover properly suited to specific drivers in specific locations in a specific vehicle.



DAT said:


> Please explain to us what brands are generic garbage and what is classified as _expensive_ generic garbage.


Expensive generic garbage is a prefab passive crossover for non-coaxial drivers using expensive parts that was not designed for specific drivers in specific locations in a specific vehicle.



DAT said:


> Get the time let us know what you personally use in your cars.


That information is readily available to anyone with the competence to effect a search.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

DS-21 - So it sounds like you're saying to go active or custom build a passive and these are the only options?


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

cobb2819 said:


> DS-21 - So it sounds like you're saying to go active or custom build a passive and these are the only options?


Sort of. A cookbook active solution (i.e. just setting slopes and hoping for the best) is low-fidelity, too, though the modern "autocorrect" systems that rely on spatially-averaged measurements to effect crossovers, time correction and EQ (Audyssey MultEQ, JBL MS8) do a better job than frankly most tuners can. (NOT all, MOST.) Especially those who just work with their ears or a low-res measurement device such as an RTA, rather than taking proper sound power measurements.

The approach that _works_ is to design a custom transfer function, based on measurements and listening to specific drivers in specific locations in a specific vehicle to get the desired response profile.

Whether that transfer function is effected at the line level (active) or at speaker level (passive) is immaterial.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

So are you thinking / saying that illusion should do like an active kit for a little less money, and then offer a passive for the regular msrp or as an option and do a guided install saying that "these crossover networks are are ideally suited for x vehicle locations" 


Sent from my iPhone


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Actually, I don't particularly care what they or anyone else does. 

I was just offended by their ridiculous (not exactly uncommon, but ridiculous nonetheless) notion that a generic passive crossover is worth a damn.


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## sqcomp (Sep 21, 2009)

^Why didn't you just lead with that comment? ...So much more efficient saying that instead of dragging it out...


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## stuckinok (Jul 22, 2008)

Wee


subwoofery said:


> Any info regarding this ^?
> 
> Kelvin


Kelvin, 

As of right now I do not have any detailed info on the tweeter. As get more info from illusion I will share. 

On another note Cobb worked his behind off this weekend installing all the Blackhole products in the Raptor.


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## Chrisandalex1 (Sep 25, 2009)

Just a little eye candy.
















[/IMG]


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Nice. But how does it sound?


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

We will know later this week, still waiting for a lot of parts to get here.


Sent from my iPhone


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

I think DS is to worried about "what is optimal" rather than just enjoying the sound. 90% of component users run passive. Maybe not on this board, but overall. And those users are happy with what it is. Still leaps and bounds better than anything stock. If its not just about enjoying the music, then I do not know.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

BeatsDownLow said:


> Still leaps and bounds better than anything stock.


Actually, that's what I highly doubt. 

A well-tuned from the factory stock system - and OEM's have really improved their systems in the last decade - will blow the **** out of an aftermarket hack. 

Sad fact of the matter is, most of the practitioners of this hobby are so ignorant, that the _only_ things "upgraded" systems tend to have over modern stock systems is bass quantity. Often, the quality of the midrange is objectively poorer with the "upgrade," because of simple incompetence in the crossover execution.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

BeatsDownLow said:


> I think DS is to worried about "what is optimal" rather than just enjoying the sound. 90% of component users run passive. Maybe not on this board, but overall. And those users are happy with what it is. Still leaps and bounds better than anything stock. If its not just about enjoying the music, then I do not know.


No, hes just a very miserable person possibly.. nothing better to do than run around DIYMA, and piss all over the threads, everyone is just ignorant people to him. Its a shame..


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

dman said:


> No, hes just a very miserable person possibly.. nothing better to do than run around DIYMA, and piss all over the threads, everyone is just ignorant people to him. Its a shame..


x2 I seem to agree..


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

No shock that two people who think that wires sound different from each other (i.e. functionally deaf people) feel that they can resort to personal attacks on people with functioning ears.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I like DS-21's posts cus hes abrasive but usually right and explains why. He pulls off the condescending post. However, with briaxials, point source or comp set with the woofers and tweets very close together, a well designed passive will probably sound just as good if not better than active. Not a generic one, but a well designed one, think Seas, Polk sr, ESB, KEF, Alpine xpro

Then you tune


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Can you guys take the pissing match to another thread please? 


Sent from my iPhone


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## hybridspl (May 9, 2008)

cobb2819 said:


> Can you guys take the pissing match to another thread please?


X2! More pics and details about Illusion Audio, less homoerotic pepe sword fighting. XOXO.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

tyroneshoes said:


> I like DS-21's posts cus hes abrasive but usually right and explains why. He pulls off the condescending post. However, with briaxials, point source or comp set with the woofers and tweets very close together, a well designed passive will probably sound just as good if not better than active.


I think in two out of those three instances you are correct. In the third (separate drivers) it depends on what center-to-center spacing for which the crossover was designed. 

Take a well-designed passive crossover, for example the one on the Clearwater 8" component set for the NB Miata. 

The drivers are on the cheap side of "nothing special." (Appropriate for a system with a very niche market at a low price.) Yet the system sounds excellent because the crossover was designed based on measurements and listening for specific drivers in specific locations in a specific car. (Their FR from ~500Hz to ~10kHz fits within an ±1.5dB window.) People can spent many thousands of dollars on drive-units and they _will_ obtain inferior sound in that car, unless they have the measurement tools and critical ears to create a good crossover. (Active _or_ passive.) But put that system in any other car, and it'll more likely than not be a train wreck.



tyroneshoes said:


> Not a generic one, but a well designed one, think Seas, Polk sr, ESB, KEF, Alpine xpro


All of those are generic unless designed for specific locations in specific vehicle. That's the key to being "well-designed," really.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

DS-21 said:


> All of those are generic unless designed for specific locations in specific vehicle. That's the key to being "well-designed," really.


Specific locations are provided for the above crossovers. Specific vehicle is where mass production ends unfortunately. It would be nice for a company to
offer custom crossovers or comp sets tuned to a specific car similar to the jl stealthbox approach.

Regardless,I would still need to have some EQ even if the passive is tailored to your car. I know you had KEFs as I did too. You still had to do some eq with them to sound right, but less eq than when using an active setup.

These days you can get a rta phone app and a Audiocontrol eq for $75 bucks and achieve great results with passive as easily as active if not easier. Especially if bi amping them.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Nothing to do with this specific product, but "better than stock" may or may not be true. Dropping components into a stock system isn't likely to be an improvement. The assumption is that an amplifier and components will be better than stock running off HU power. Certainly likely to be louder and "clearer". Better than adding an amplifier to the stock speakers? Maybe. Better than amplified upgraded coaxials in the stock locations? There are so many variables that a blanket statement doesn't come close to making sense. User objectives and how any speakers fit into the entire system are the important things.

DS-21's posts make sense and should be considered by anyone who thinks making any single, simple change to their system is going to achieve perfection. The breadcrumbs leading to this thread are:

DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality
DIY Audio Discussion
DIYMA SQ forum - Technical & Advanced

Seems like the perfect place for a discussion like this. I can't speak to his personal situation, character or personality and don't see the relevance, but what he is saying is what I want to find after following that trail. What I don't expect are marketing claims being accepted without question or personal attacks against those making valuable contributions to the topic. Personal attacks in place of a valid argument should be a red flag.


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## MHLY01 (Dec 15, 2005)

Wonder if they can fix my old shallow 8 as I have one blown.


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## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

I'm on board for this as well. Where can we see prices on the new Illusion line up?


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

deeppinkdiver said:


> I'm on board for his as well. Where can we see prices on the new Illusion line up?


1st page


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## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

dman said:


> 1st page


Thumbnails.. now I got it. Still getting used to this site. Thanks dman


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## bmwcolin (Oct 27, 2011)

So any more news when these are coming? I would like to know more about the 10" carbon thin mount sub. I am going to have HDME do some work on my tacoma soon and I think these would be the perfect sub!


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Rumors have it January. They ramped up production, supposed to have product here and in stock for CES in Jan. I used two Carbon 12" subs in a Raptor, and they are freaking amazing.


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## bmwcolin (Oct 27, 2011)

cobb2819 said:


> Rumors have it January. They ramped up production, supposed to have product here and in stock for CES in Jan. I used two Carbon 12" subs in a Raptor, and they are freaking amazing.


Thanks, I have been talking to Cinco a bit about you guys doing something for me, and I think these would be bad ass. I think one 10" or 12" should do it, then we just have to worry about getting a box to fit. Did Cinco show you whats in there now?

Do you have any specs or pix you can send me? I didnt see the pix of the sub on your website.

Thx


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Cinco told me about whats in there, and i cried a little. such a [email protected] truck, and a weak audio package. I have an idea of everything the Carbon 10 and 12 specs wise, and I'm not worried about getting one to fit, they are wicked shallow because of the inverted motor. I would think that a single 10 would be enough for that cab, and keeping in mind the clearance from the box front to seat back.

attached is an image of the 12" Carbon and the factory sony 8" sub from a Ford Raptor.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

tyroneshoes said:


> Specific locations are provided for the above crossovers. Specific vehicle is where mass production ends unfortunately. It would be nice for a company to
> offer custom crossovers or comp sets tuned to a specific car similar to the jl stealthbox approach.


I've wondered about that - while JL clearly creates the Stealthboxes to fit into a particular location in a vehicle and be unobstrusive, do they also engineer them to work with said vehicle's transfer function to make the most out of the enclosure, if they can't quite get the interior volume right due to the gross size limitations?

It'd be interesting to know if that's why a particular enclosure might be a certain size and shape, and not, perhaps, 0.01 cubic feet larger or smaller in volume.


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## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

HondAudio said:


> I've wondered about that - while JL clearly creates the Stealthboxes to fit into a particular location in a vehicle and be unobstrusive, do they also engineer them to work with said vehicle's transfer function to make the most out of the enclosure, if they can't quite get the interior volume right due to the gross size limitations?
> 
> It'd be interesting to know if that's why a particular enclosure might be a certain size and shape, and not, perhaps, 0.01 cubic feet larger or smaller in volume.


I've also wondered that for years.. anyone with JL ties on this site?


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## rockytophigh (Apr 16, 2008)

deeppinkdiver said:


> I've also wondered that for years.. anyone with JL ties on this site?


Only Manville that I know of


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!!

Yes, they are on the way! Finally!!! We have had a lot of changes that needed to be made to the line from entry level to the Carbon Series, but I can report to everyone on here that Illusion will be available for sale right after CES if not sooner. 

One of the many advantages that has been incorporated into the redesign of the speakers is that in the Carbon Series of speakers XBL voice coil technology has been used! If you are not familiar with the XBL voice coil, google it and see why it has been used! We at Orca and very excited to finally have this product officially on its way!!

As soon as it hits the shores of the USA, I will let everyone on this particular site know!!

Nick Wingate
National Sales/Product training Coordinator
Focal/Mosconi/Illusiion Audio America


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## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

Mitsu1grn said:


> Greetings!!
> 
> Yes, they are on the way! Finally!!! We have had a lot of changes that needed to be made to the line from entry level to the Carbon Series, but I can report to everyone on here that Illusion will be available for sale right after CES if not sooner.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot Nick! Are there any updates to the pricing as of yet due to redesign/VC config changes?

Thanks,
Steve


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## SoundJunkie (Dec 3, 2008)

Mitsu1grn said:


> Greetings!!
> 
> Yes, they are on the way! Finally!!! We have had a lot of changes that needed to be made to the line from entry level to the Carbon Series, but I can report to everyone on here that Illusion will be available for sale right after CES if not sooner.
> 
> ...


Nick,

Still looking for some help beta testing? I never heard back from you!

Erik

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Mitsu1grn said:


> ...The Carbon Series of speakers XBL voice coil technology has been used!


Good to hear given the competition out there now. Good to see that the driver will be improved given what I am sure will be a similar price structure as when they were available years ago (Which will still be a bit pricey today), maybe not? The componets will for sure spark interest...especially something like a shallow XBL 8" midbass. However, the subs will have products like the JL 13TW5 and upcoming Stereo Integrity BM mkIV to contend with as far as true shallow, small box requirment, SQ subs...so they better bring the goods if they are going to have the hefty price attached. 

Nevertheless, good to see an old name coming back from the dead possibly new and improved. I really like the midrange qualities from the old 5" Carbon mid. Always wanted to do a system with those and some 8's and tweets.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

I can't wait to see some specs. I have a pair of 6.5" Luccent midbasses that I bought from eBay. I had planned to use them in my install, but since they had such a weird mounting diameter and I had difficulties with the positioning of the terminals, I'm holding off. I'm sizing my midbass baffles for a set of 5.25" drivers that voice-match my 4" mids. If they can hold me over for a while, I'll get 6.5" or 8" drivers later.


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## dozy_production (Mar 22, 2006)

bump!


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## stuckinok (Jul 22, 2008)

Not much to bump lol still waiting till CES


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## falstaff (May 22, 2012)

Anything yet?


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## stuckinok (Jul 22, 2008)

Production is close. Thats the latest from Orca


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!

Orca should have some Illusion product in the warehouse by mid July. All of the production runs are being scheduled out as our head engineer is at the facility in today making sure everything is ready to go. I will attempt to find out today what we can expect,( as far as product is concerned), and the dates we can expect it. 

I can tell everyone this: There has been several changes that have taken place in some of the subs that lowered the distortion levels substantially! The are in the Carbon Series but as to the exact ones, I am not sure of. I will try and find out the exact models today if I can and the exact distortion figures. I know its less than 1%, but I don't know the exact number.

Ill keep everyone informed as best I can!

Nick


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

Hi Nick, I wanted to know if you could share any highlights about the new C3CX which I believe was awarded a CES 2105 Design award ( congrats! ) I've only seen pics but nothing is available on the Illusion site. Thanks!


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## Hellrot (Sep 28, 2014)

I have acquired Illusion Audio tweeters from the C8 Carbon set - will install them now in my 911 Coupe. Will post the progress later.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Bluenote said:


> Hi Nick, I wanted to know if you could share any highlights about the new C3CX which I believe was awarded a CES 2105 Design award ( congrats! ) I've only seen pics but nothing is available on the Illusion site. Thanks!


It might be worth checking with JT. I'm sure there might be others that have them now as well.


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

Thanks! I've asked JT a few things but didn't wanna wear him out on FB lol. I was hoping Nick could give a full overview for us all. Thanks for suggesting!


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings All!

The C3Cx and C3 mid bass are now in stock at Orca. Both drivers have gone through quite a rigorous testing over the last 18 months to make sure that they perform as expected. 

The C3Cx I am more familiar with so Ill start there. 

Usable Frequency range is 200 hz to 20,000 hz. The driver needs about .05 to .1 cu ft of airspace to play correctly. The driver has 3 faraday rings and is utilizing the XBL2 voice coil technology. Distortion measured off the cone is less than 1% at 50% input power at last measuement from our design engineer. If that has changed I will elaborate when I know more. 14mm tweeter is being utilized with a new design that allows the driver to play lower in frequency with lower distortion levels. Tweeter actually moves a lot of air believe it or not.

Driver has shipped to several dealers already and I am expecting performance reports this upcoming weekend. Chris Pate of Mobile Toys is building a Chevy Tahoe utilizing C12XL's, C8 bass drivers and C3Cx's. The C3Cx's will go in this weekend and will part of a fully active system with a Mosconi 6 to 8V8 and AS amps. Should be an outstanding system. As soon as Chris tells me what his thoughts are I will post that up here.


C3 miss are basically that same without the extension of the tweeter. However, I can tell you that measured on axis, this driver plays roughly from 200 hz to 18000 hz. Same number of Faraday rings and XBL2 voice coil technology. As soon as I get my pair in to install in my system, I will share my thoughts on there performance against my C4 mids.

I can tell you that the goal of this project was that the C3 mid would be world class and compete with the absolute best in the world. Preliminary listening with the prototypes was very positive and its the reason we went to full production. 

Hope this helps in the basic understanding on these drivers.

Nick Wingate Jr
National Training Coordinator
Orca Design and MFG.


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## crxsir121 (Oct 18, 2006)

Whats the size of the tweeter on the point source driver? 20mm?


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

Nick thank you!


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Tweeter size is 14mm.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Hellrot said:


> I have acquired Illusion Audio tweeters from the C8 Carbon set - will install them now in my 911 Coupe. Will post the progress later.


Looking forward to your opinions..I have a pair of the same tweets that I will be installing in my truck, most likely tucked in the very corner of the windshield and a pillar, facing on axis, NOT up firing.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Thanks for the information Nick! I can't wait to get my C3s into my dash and get proper processing in place to get them up and playing.


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

rton20s said:


> Thanks for the information Nick! I can't wait to get my C3s into my dash and get proper processing in place to get them up and playing.


6to8 ordered?


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

The "minimum advertised price" is from 2011, I can't fathom how much their prices have changed due to inflation and increases in material cost, there's plenty of GREAT sounding speakers that don't cost nearly as much but they're great for the man that thinks he needs to spend a lot to get great sound, they will have a niche market consisting of a small amount of individuals with deep pockets, that's about it..
I wouldn't be interested in their low-end "electra" lineup when i can get someone elses "premium" speakers for the same price..
It's not my opinion just simple marketing strategy and a bit of psychology and understanding how people think..


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

DLO13 said:


> 6to8 ordered?


It would have been by the end of the week. However, a series of unfortunate events (triggered by a freak case of food poisoning) has eliminated the funding source I had planned to use. It will still happen, but I now have to wait for some Scion owners to step up and buy some parts I've got hanging around.



gstokes said:


> The "minimum advertised price" is from 2011, I can't fathom how much their prices have changed due to inflation and increases in material cost, there's plenty of GREAT sounding speakers that don't cost nearly as much but they're great for the man that thinks he needs to spend a lot to get great sound, they will have a niche market consisting of a small amount of individuals with deep pockets, that's about it..
> I wouldn't be interested in their low-end "electra" lineup when i can get someone elses "premium" speakers for the same price..
> It's not my opinion just simple marketing strategy and a bit of psychology and understanding how people think..


Actually, it is precisely your opinion, nothing more. And that is fine, we are all entitled to our own opinions. I'd also recommend you actually look into current pricing information before making assumptions about what has or hasn't happened to the pricing structure over the last four years. 

And I can assure you that the Illusion lineup is not only for someone with "deep pockets" who "thinks he need to spend a lot to get great sound." How do I know? I'm the antithesis of this and I currently own a total of ten (10) Illusion drivers (C6 x2, C3 x2, TL25BN x2, E6 x2, TL25AN x2). I can assure you the only thing you will find deep in my pockets is lint. 

At the time that I purchased my original C6 component set, I was absolutely blown away by the capability of the set given the shallow mounting depth. The performance of the driver alone (as observed in multiple installations) was enough to sell me, but the bonus of a shallow depth was extremely desirable as well. Knowing that I would likely have no issues moving such a significant (for me) investment to a new vehicle added greatly to the value. 

Are there drivers on par or that exceed the performance of Illusion Carbons? Of course. Can they be found for less than the cost of the Illusion drivers? Certainly. Especially when we get into the DIY realm, on both counts. Will they come with the same type of manufacturer support that I have personally experienced with Orca? Unlikely. That isn't to say that they are the "end all, be all," but they certainly don't deserve to be summarily dismissed just because you could piece together a set of drivers from Madisound or Parts Express and save a few bucks. 

And one side note on the Electras, I haven't had much time with the mids yet, but I did run the tweeters for a short time in combination with my Carbon C6s. While they required a higher crossover, I was pleasantly surprised at how nice they sounded without spending any time adjusting my tune from the Carbon tweeters.


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

Nick one more thing...Is there a remote chance for a 15" Carbon XL?


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Bluenote said:


> Nick one more thing...I'd there a remote chance for a 15" Carbon XL?


*La la la la la I can't hear you guys la la la la la* 

For my own sanity, I hope not lol.


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

^ Yours and Mine! LOL


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

I was wondering if anyone help me with the C4 CX's Crossover. (i could not find any info on the website)

Which IN terminals to use with a single amp? 

Also trying to find out how many tweeter attenuation it's suppose to have, and to how position the jumpers to get the all the different settings? 
I see the 3 on off jumpers but IIRC someone mentioned 7 attenuation possible.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

1fishman said:


> I was wondering if anyone help me with the C4 CX's Crossover. (i could not find any info on the website)
> 
> Which IN terminals to use with a single amp?
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter as long as the switch is in single amp position. Also, 3 tweeter attention jumpers, that can be mixed and matched.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

cobb2819 said:


> It doesn't matter as long as the switch is in single amp position. Also, 3 tweeter attention jumpers, that can be mixed and matched.


oh I think I understand I was looking at it wrong. Each jumper has a "different" value. So if I put -3 on and -2 on and 1 off I'll have -5dbs. 
Thanks


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

1fishman said:


> oh I think I understand I was looking at it wrong. Each jumper has a "different" value. So if I put -3 on and -2 on and 1 off I'll have -5dbs.
> Thanks


Indeed.


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## Tom Westling (Feb 13, 2011)

What are the dimensions of the c3 driver?


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

JT measured them here : https://www.facebook.com/jtaudioacc...463599&hash=-6182348870057648925&pagefilter=3


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## Tom Westling (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks for the dimensions! What are these going to retail for?


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## 45david2 (Apr 20, 2015)

I bought a set of C3CX. The speakers are amazing! The sound quality produced by such a small speaker is outstanding. Paired with their 8" mid-bass you can't go wrong.


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

You have pics?


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## 45david2 (Apr 20, 2015)

Bluenote said:


> You have pics?


My installer took photos. I'll need his permission before I use his photos but I will ask him later today. I will say they fit perfectly in the factory dash and door locations of my vehicle (2015 Camry XSE) without any type of modifications.


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

Nice! I can understand the photo situation.


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

I think the c3cx will be a huge hit if they can be had for a good price. Many car come with 3" speakers now days.


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