# Off brand subwoofers vs 'big name' subwoofers



## Neeoo (Dec 13, 2011)

I have done a LOT of reading on this forum and have developed a lot of respect for the shared knowledge available here. I am currently researching for a SQ sub, preferably a 10 for my car. I have read about Dayton HO subs and a lot of people have said they are very natural sounding. This is what I am looking for, yet there are some reporting quality control related issues with them. I read about the JL Audio W3v3 which are raved about. So my question is two part.

1 - Where is the happy medium between much cheaper (price wise) non-named brand subs and the more expensive subs from known mfg.

2 - If I wanted a very high sound quality, quality sub for my enclosure (1.10 - 1.25 f^3) which required only around 300 watts to sound fantastic (natural, classical music, pink floyd, alternative) where does the law of diminishing returns in price begin? 

I appreciate any recommendations. Should I just suck it up and trust that HAT's subs sounds as fantastic as their components?


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## lionelc5 (Oct 31, 2011)

I went round and round about what 10" sub to use in my car. I have two seperate enclosures, each sealed with .65 cubic feet of airspace. I was also limited to about a 6" mounting depth. 

I was going to use a JL 10W3 but ended going with a couple TC Sounds Epic 10s. I had also read that the TCs sometimes had build quality issues, but decided to give them a try because they were sold at Parts Express and I knew that there would be no problem returning them if there were any issues.

I am glad that I went with the TC sounds over the JLs. They sound great! I can honestly say they sound better than the 10 W6V2s that I had installed in my wifes car a few months back.

Good luck on whatever you choose. But to be honest you may never know what you like best untill you hear them both, so short of buying both 10s, you should just make a choice and move forward....

LionelC


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I use the Dayton 10HO and not had a lick of issues with them, some have had bonding issues with the 15. I run "250W" in a small car and it does well, keep in mind that in the passband you will be using it in it's more like 6 ohms.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

To be honest, the lesser known (to the mainstream market) brands can typically end up being the better buy. Brands like Dayton, Peerless, Stere Integrity, etc... make some amazing drivers. Especially when you consider how much better their subs are in terms of using technologies that will increase performance such as shorting rings, XBL^2 motor topologies and the like. Doing that while coming in at half the price of brands like Image Dynamics which doesn't take advantage of ANY of that. Just some food for thought.

Also, I have only owned 1 TC Sounds driver so I can't report on QC issues with them. The one I had was perfect. I have owned lots of Dayton drivers and I have not seen a single defect with any of them. I'm also a very big fan of Dayton and would recommend you give the HO10 a try.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Special: $159.00 - The EPIC 10" subwoofer is designed to be lighter and smaller.

TC Sounds Epic 10" DVC Subwoofer 293-656



> Highlights
> 
> High-temperature low eddy current stainless steel voicecoil former
> 2 + 2 ohm dual voicecoil
> ...


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## Neeoo (Dec 13, 2011)

Thank you for your replies. I was already leaning the Dayton direction and have decided on the TIT280C-4 10". Its the right vas, and although I was wanting to stay around 300 watts, it wants 400 RMS, which isn't such a huge deal to me. 

However, that leads me to decision #2:
I am highly considering the JL Audio 500/5 amp because I'm super curious about the L-R Ambience rear channel and how that sounds with car audio. That amp is rated for 300w rms on the sub channel. The front channels are perfect (100w) for my HAT I6 components. I'm just really not sure about the 25w rear channel and the sub channel only being 300 watts. I'm starting to think I'm locking myself into this super novel, specific purpose amp and limiting myself by it.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Neeoo said:


> However, that leads me to decision #2:
> I am highly considering the JL Audio 500/5 amp because I'm super curious about the L-R Ambience rear channel and how that sounds with car audio. That amp is rated for 300w rms on the sub channel. The front channels are perfect (100w) for my HAT I6 components. I'm just really not sure about the 25w rear channel and the sub channel only being 300 watts. I'm starting to think I'm locking myself into this super novel, specific purpose amp and limiting myself by it.


LOL I use the 500/5 also.... It's 250W for the sub channel 

I don't use the rear ambiance though, I use it for sub/midbass/tweet.


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## Neeoo (Dec 13, 2011)

chad said:


> LOL I use the 500/5 also.... It's 250W for the sub channel
> 
> I don't use the rear ambiance though, I use it for sub/midbass/tweet.


Have you ever tried using the rear ambiance feature? Does it give you good feeling of 'roominess'?


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Neeoo said:


> Thank you for your replies. I was already leaning the Dayton direction and have decided on the TIT280C-4 10". Its the right vas, and although I was wanting to stay around 300 watts, it wants 400 RMS, which isn't such a huge deal to me.
> 
> However, that leads me to decision #2:
> I am highly considering the JL Audio 500/5 amp because I'm super curious about the L-R Ambience rear channel and how that sounds with car audio. That amp is rated for 300w rms on the sub channel. The front channels are perfect (100w) for my HAT I6 components. I'm just really not sure about the 25w rear channel and the sub channel only being 300 watts. I'm starting to think I'm locking myself into this super novel, specific purpose amp and limiting myself by it.


What are your space (amp footprint) and budget constraints for your amp?


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## Neeoo (Dec 13, 2011)

Boostedrex said:


> What are your space (amp footprint) and budget constraints for your amp?


Given where I want to tuck the amp, I have probably 1'6" height by probably about 2'6" or so for the width by about 2.5-3.5 depth. Budget constraints - the 500 I was willing to shell out for the 500/5 was about my ceiling.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Neeoo said:


> Have you ever tried using the rear ambiance feature? Does it give you good feeling of 'roominess'?


Nope, I have not run a passive rig in a car since the late 80's


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

Neeoo said:


> 2 - If I wanted a very high sound quality, quality sub for my enclosure (1.10 - 1.25 f^3) which required only around 300 watts to sound fantastic (natural, classical music, pink floyd, alternative) where does the law of diminishing returns in price begin?


I run *Infinity Kappa 120.9w* with 250watts. 1.1-1.25 is approximately right for it. It's a very nice subwoofer that plays tight bass and can get loud when necessary. Sonicelectronix has it on sale for around $130 right now shipped. There is a switch to flip impedance from 2ohms to 4ohms. That's one of the reasons I bought it. I can move it between a mono block (2ohm) and bridged 2-channel amplifier (4ohm) with no issues.

What other subwoofers could work for your needs?

*RE SRX12* (D2 or D4 versions). Again 1-1.2 box with 200-300watts is fine for it. Very nice all around subwoofer with good sensitivity and will get loud when necessary. Cheap. I have upgraded to Kappa from this and really don't see a lot of differences. PM me if you want to buy mine (I have a lightly used D4 version)

*Image Dynamics IDQ12v3*. WinISD predicts that it will actually be more efficient than the above two. This is one of long time favorites of this forum. ~1.2cu ft is about right for it. ~$250

*Alpine Type-R*. The new 2010 version is supposed to be vastly better than the old one. 300watts should be fine. 1cu ft box seems a little off. I'd look into 1.4 stuffed with polyfill.

*Peerless XXLS*. This one has fantastic reviews and tests in the measurement section. Kind of expensive. It may need a bit bigger box, maybe 1.4 cu ft stuffed with polyfill. Great sensitivity. It will reach its one way xmax excursion of 12.5mm with just 250watts but at that point will sound louder than any of the above.

*Scanspeak Discovery* subs sold by Madisound. A clone of Peerless XXLS, is supposed to have higher quality (assembled in Denmark). 

I am very happy with the Kappa and want to keep it, but if some day I have $300 burning a hole in my pocket, I would like to try out the Scanspeak.


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

ZAKOH said:


> I run *Infinity Kappa 120.9w* with 250watts. 1.1-1.25 is approximately right for it. It's a very nice subwoofer that plays tight bass and can get loud when necessary. Sonicelectronix has it on sale for around $130 right now shipped. There is a switch to flip impedance from 2ohms to 4ohms. That's one of the reasons I bought it. I can move it between a mono block (2ohm) and bridged 2-channel amplifier (4ohm) with no issues.


Going by the specs, $130 is a REALLY good price for those drivers. The surround doesn't look like it will support 36mm of linear excursion peak-peak however. It actually looks very similar to what's used on the previous model, the 122.7W (of which I own two), which has a listed Xmax of 12mm (and seems to generate noticeable motor noise before achieving that). Did you ever try hooking one of them up to a low frequency source (~10 Hz ) and upping the level to see if the cone can do over an inch of travel without generating noticeable distortion?


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

More fun with "off brand" stuff imo. There are probably more subs in the car audio market than there are for home audio, and the other way around when it comes to other speakers.

Anyway, Peerless XXLS gotta be one of the best subs I ever had. Regret selling that one


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

Brian Steele said:


> Going by the specs, $130 is a REALLY good price for those drivers. The surround doesn't look like it will support 36mm of linear excursion peak-peak however. It actually looks very similar to what's used on the previous model, the 122.7W (of which I own two), which has a listed Xmax of 12mm (and seems to generate noticeable motor noise before achieving that). Did you ever try hooking one of them up to a low frequency source (~10 Hz ) and upping the level to see if the cone can do over an inch of travel without generating noticeable distortion?


I don't know what to listen for to tell if the subwoofer has motor noise. Do I need to take it out of the box? I might need to do it to flip the switch to 4ohm mode soon. I have been running 20Hz tones with enough power for excursion to be at least 1 inch peek to peak. I didn't hear any noise. I was doing this to check if the seal between subwoofer and the box was good.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Hanatsu said:


> More fun with "off brand" stuff imo. There are probably more subs in the car audio market than there are for home audio, and the other way around when it comes to other speakers.
> 
> Anyway, Peerless XXLS gotta be one of the best subs I ever had. Regret selling that one


I have 2X XXLS 12's parked here in factory packaging...... still waiting for a project.

I think I'm going to side fire each in a tower with 2 peerless HDS 5.25" and a vifa XT25. all sitting on a shelf, waiting for ambition.


And spouse approval. And figuring out how to recess a truncated frame driver.


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

ZAKOH said:


> I don't know what to listen for to tell if the subwoofer has motor noise. Do I need to take it out of the box? I might need to do it to flip the switch to 4ohm mode soon. I have been running 20Hz tones with enough power for excursion to be at least 1 inch peek to peak. I didn't hear any noise. I was doing this to check if the seal between subwoofer and the box was good.


Motor noise = any noise caused by cone excursion, e.g. air rushing through the pole piece or the vents below the spider. The best drivers feature little to no motor noise at high excursion levels. This type of noise tends to be inaudible if you use a sealed box (with the magnet inside the box of course). It may be more noticeable in other alignments, e.g. "clamshell" isobaric.

However, there is also the non-linear distortion that will be generated as the driver approaches or exceeding Xmax. From your note, it looks like the driver is capable of doing at least 25mm of excursion without this being noticeable. That's pretty good for a driver that costs $130.


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