# Seeking pro-quality speakers (4x50W) for around $50



## ProDigit (Feb 20, 2012)

Ok, I mentioned 'pro-quality', because I'm not the guy to be given boomboxes for my car!


I bought a Kia Optima, the front speakers are 6 3/4" (round ones).
The back are 6 by 9's.


I want to replace the stock speakers with speakers producing an accurate sound, efficient speakers, that don't break my bank account. I like listening to music LOUD, but don't want another amp in my car (so a set of speakers that will work well for 4x50W).

I like low and deep bass, and also a punchy bass. 
I also like crystal clear brights, with upper frequencies ranging near to the 15kHz; not 8kHz with a -3dB rolloff at 5kHz like the stock speakers do.

My music ranges from techno and electronic music, to Jazz and live performances. The live performances require a great deal of fidelity,and increased dynamic range.
The electronic music, mainly a good handling of low and high frequencies,while still sounding tight!

I also want to keep the budget around $50 per speaker, ranging 'till $79 per speaker (only if it's really worth paying the extra $$$).

I don't care about speakers being rated +200W peaks or 5 way, as I probably won't even get close to that power rating,and don't care how many way a speaker is, as long as it's very efficient, and sounds accurate in lows, mids and highs (I've been playing with the idea of installing studio monitor drivers in my door panel).

For those reasons, I probably would prefer 2 way speakers. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I see no need to pay extra money for 4 way speakers, as the door speakers are the only front speakers I have, no separate tweeter. The hood speakers perhaps 2 or 3 way, depending.

One thing I hate is harsh music (around 4kHz) and boom box sound (80-200Hz).

The stock speakers of the Kia aren't too bad (stock radio was though), give me nice lows, play back pretty good honestly; but they start distorting above 60% of the radio's volume, and they don't have very good brights.
I just found out that their stock speakers are JBL's! Makes me wonder why equipping the car with such a bad radio?



They are stock paper cones.
I already replaced the radio to one I like (Sony CDX-GT700HD).
It's not the best radio in the world, but it offers what I was seeking, namely digital radio channels and MP3 playback.
It's output is rated at somewhere between 27W (8Ohms?) and 4x 52W @4ohms.

I'm looking for 2x very tight speakers in the back @6x9" (there's not a lot of space), and 2 for the doors 6 3/4".

Good quality, meant to complement each other, not to be paired with sub woofers, nor eardeafening noise. 
I want audio where the lows won't overtake the mids at higher volumes (or reverse).
Where I can enjoy listening to the radio, whether I'm driving on a noisy highway, or parked in a lot.

I've looked online, but don't even know where to start. It's a mumbojumbo on data, very hard to get speaker efficiency, and most speakers are rated at ridiculous power levels.

There used to be a time when on a speaker or electronic device's design,you could tell if you had a good product or not, because good companies would invest millions in design. However, nowadays, looks do not guarantee quality, as they can easily be copied, and costs very little for a crappy unknown company to make some stock speakers look slick.

I've looked at brands like Pioneer, Polk Audio... Even Rockford.

I just don't know which ones are designed for my purpose.
Rockford offers adapters and other things that would make installation pretty easy with their fosgate primes...

One style of music I won't be playing is boom box hip hop and rap music!
So quality takes utmost precedence over power handling; though I want the speakers to be efficient too; not just loud!

I was thinking that since the car audio system is based on a closed speaker system (meaning they have no ports), and the trunk speakers have a bigger space behind them than the door speakers, it would make sense to put speakers in the trunk that handle the lows better, while the front (door) speakers more mid- and high rangey.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

So do you have a 4x50 watt amplifier or not? Note that amplifiers built into stereos do no produce 4x50watts. That's a B.S. _peak_ number. Their RMS wattage is much lower. Usually around 4x18watts. If you want to build a good sounding stereo system, you should start by installing a decent amplifier. There is no way around that IMO. 

Also good luck with finding good sounding speakers for $50.. I would say half decent stuff is priced around $150 a set or more, and things get interesting once you get to 250-300 budget mark (though that's still entry level by high end car audio standards) because some speakers from companies like Morel, Hertz, HAT, Focal, etc become within reach.. If you want to go with coaxial speakers, consider Hybrid Audio Mirus or Imagine for an easy drop in upgrade. HAT is a company building very high end car speakers that sound excellent but can easily cost over $1000 to outfit just the front of your car, but these cheaper Mirus and Imagine certainly share some design features with the more expensive HAT speakers and won't break your bank account. 

Also there is no substitute for subwoofer to provide deep bass. Most 6 inch speakers will not play with authority below 70Hz or so. The lower frequencies are best filled by a dedicated subwoofer or midbass.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

So, you want to use your factory locations and are looking for axially (is that a word?) mounted tweets?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

ZAKOH said:


> So do you have a 4x50 watt amplifier or not? Note that amplifiers built into stereos do no produce 4x50watts. That's a B.S. peak number. Their RMS wattage is much lower. Usually around 4x18watts. If you want to build a good sounding stereo system, you should start by installing a decent amplifier.
> 
> Also good luck with finding good sounding speakers for $50.. I would say half decent stuff is priced around $150 a set or more, and things get interesting once you get to 250-300 budget mark (though that's still entry level by high end car audio standards).


You can find GREAT drivers for 50 bux per speaker. Vifa is one brand I'd consider in that price range.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

bassfromspace said:


> You can find GREAT drivers for 50 bux per speaker. Vifa is one brand I'd consider in that price range.


Yeah IF you run active, and you can fit them, etc. You still need a tweeter. Once you factor the cost of crossovers and tweeters, it's not cheap at all.


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## Stück (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm going to ignore your budget because its altogether unrealistic.

What I would recommend to you for drop in speaker replacements is Hybrid Audio Technologies Imagine line. You shouldn't *need* adapters to make these work in your car, but if you do you can make simple baffles from MDF or something of the like.

These are towards the bottom of the product lineup from HAT, but borrow technologies and manufacturing techniques from the higher up models while remaining cost effective.

Fronts:
Imagine I61-2 6.5" Component / Coaxial Speaker Set - 12v Electronics

Rears:
Imagine I69-2 Speaker Set - 12v Electronics


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## ProDigit (Feb 20, 2012)

sorry, 6.5 don't fit, they need to be 6 3/4.

About the budget, I found many speakers for that budget!
Maybe not the best speakers, but many are 2 way, 3 way, and 4 way even!
I'm merely concerned if they are an upgrade to the stock speakers or not; I believe so, as the JBL's don't have a separate tweeter (just a paper dome in the cone).

As for the radio RMS watt ratings, I guess they are 27W. Sony says they are, though everywhere else I see 52W.
@4x52W I think I have plenty of power! I don't need a separate amp!
My friends ran their cars with 2x30W RMS back in the days and 10" woofers in the trunk and it worked back then; so I don't want to invest in a separate amp. The sony's is good enough!


If I can find speakers that come close to these JBL's in audio quality, have a higher SPL and a tweeter (to reproduce the brighter tones), I guess I'll call that a good enough upgrade.

Perhaps people's perception of audio quality has changed.

If I had said I wanted 50W drivers, I'd probably get replies from anyone,including those who love to blast 300W through their speakers at ear deafening levels, and think that those kind of speakers are an improvement upon the stock speakers!


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## rodneypierce (Feb 2, 2012)

ProDigit said:


> sorry, 6.5 don't fit, they need to be 6 3/4.
> 
> About the budget, I found many speakers for that budget!
> Maybe not the best speakers, but many are 2 way, 3 way, and 4 way even!
> ...


thats peak power, its not RMS or what I like to refer to as "true" power. I bet your "true" power is less then 22 watts per channel... Amp helps tremendously.

And you could check out the Aura 6x9's from PE. Not a bad speaker by any means. Not the best either, but for the 52.00 a set they are pretty damn good.


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## ProDigit (Feb 20, 2012)

rodneypierce said:


> thats peak power, its not RMS or what I like to refer to as "true" power. I bet your "true" power is less then 22 watts per channel... Amp helps tremendously.
> 
> And you could check out the Aura 6x9's from PE. Not a bad speaker by any means. Not the best either, but for the 52.00 a set they are pretty damn good.


It IS RMS! Check Sony's manual, they rate the Sony CDX-GT700HD @ 27W per channel,52W peak!


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

ProDigit said:


> It IS RMS! Check Sony's manual, they rate the Sony CDX-GT700HD @ 27W per channel,52W peak!


Take a look here

Sony Xplod CDX-GT700HD CD receiver at Crutchfield.com

17watts

If your manual says 27watts RMS, that almost certainly is a typo. I have never heard of any stereo manufacturer claiming more than 22watts RMS. All Sony stereos probably share the same parts anyways, and 17watts is the number that I always heard. In any case, you want to have over 50watts. The more the better. There is no point in buying a good speaker if you can't power it adequately.


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## rodneypierce (Feb 2, 2012)

ProDigit said:


> It IS RMS! Check Sony's manual, they rate the Sony CDX-GT700HD @ 27W per channel,52W peak!


Look dude.........



> @4x52W I think I have plenty of power! I don't need a separate amp!


Thats not...........RMS!!! Thats peak which is hogwash. 27 is a far cry from 52.... Thats all im saying. Do what you will, but I dont think you will be entirely happy with your "range" you get from a low wattage is all.


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

Head unit power may be adequate for a lot of people, but you've been advised to use an external amplifier for good reasons. If you're happy trusting Sony's specs then do what you want.

I don't try every brand of speaker, but for $50 a set you're not going to find a lot of difference between brands. I wouldn't even consider raw drivers(i.e. any brands that have their roots in home audio loudspeakers) due a) no tech support b) no coaxials c) no car audio shop is going to be able to give you the same support as they can give for car audio name brands.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

The likelihood of the "amp" in that H.U. producing it's stated RMS is not good.

You seem to have some preconceived and ill-informed notions of what bad sound is, yet you're about to travel down that path right now. Power doesn't always relate to loud music or boom, but is essential to reproducing a signal accurately.

I have no proof, but I suspect the "efficient" coaxes in your price range aren't really efficient, but exhibit a rising frequency response in the upper octaves in order to increase the perception of loudness.

Make sure you HEED what advice you're getting as you've got some great advice thus far.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

ProDigit said:


> sorry, 6.5 don't fit, they need to be 6 3/4.
> 
> About the budget, I found many speakers for that budget!
> Maybe not the best speakers, but many are 2 way, 3 way, and 4 way even!


Those multi-way speakers are a joke. Anything more than 2-way is superfluous on a coaxial speaker. By the way, if your woofer does not have a tweeter on it, then where is your car's tweeter? If you're upgrading your audio system, consider upgrading both the woofer and tweeter. Ideally get a good component speaker set.


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## Stück (Jul 3, 2011)

ProDigit said:


> sorry, 6.5 don't fit, they need to be 6 3/4.
> 
> About the budget, I found many speakers for that budget!
> Maybe not the best speakers, but many are 2 way, 3 way, and 4 way even!
> ...


No offense man, but it seems like you have an interest in car audio, but only know *just enough* to be confused and dangerous. Either that, and I'm surprised no one has called it yet... but you seem to be trolling.

If you want something GOOD for your car you are going to have to "downsize" to 6.5's. Very few high end audio companies make 6 3/4" drivers because they are a niche OE type fitment. Any decent shop, even awful shops can adapt a 6.5" to fit. HAT drivers tend to run marginally oversized anyways, you may find the HAT imagine 6.5" speaker will fit with little to no extra effort.

You have to understand you have come to a forum overwhelmingly dominated by audiophiles. Next to no one here would call a set of 4 $50 speakers running off a low end Sony decks built in amp a system, let alone something that sounds good.

If you want something that sounds GOOD you are going to have to pay for it. The HAT Imagine line are very efficient and will work fine for YOU off your headunits power. Expand your budget and your horizons and your expectations will be seriously exceeded.

FYI, Ohms law prohibits any possibility of your headunit making anything NEAR rated "peak" power. Assuming an operating voltage of 14.2v, and assuming NOTHING in the headunit is consuming any current, the absolute maximum the built in amp could produce on a 10amp fuse prior to blowing it is 35.5w per channel. Obviously the array of lights, cd transport and various circuits in the head unit draw a good deal of power, and the fuse never blows... the amp isn't making anywhere near that figure, its making the same 17-22w RMS (dirty, high THD power) that is typical headunit built in amp power output.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Power and headroom give better SQ. 

Just about any aftermarket speaker is going to be less efficient than your stock speakers. You need an amp to reach your goals. Honestly, if I could only do one or the other, I would throw an amp on the stock speakers before running aftermarket speakers. My stock speakers really opened up with an amp and my stock stereo is rated more powerful than yours.

Contrary to what some think, I've found that speakers that sound great and get loud cost more. It's always good to shop around and find the best bang for the buck but sometimes there's no way of getting around paying more to reach your goals. I would love to have spent $50 a speaker to achieve my goals and my bank account would like it as well.

I think you're going to be disappointed with aftermarket speakers on your stock amp. I hate to say it but if you insist on going this way as I did in the beginning, look at Infinity.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Aurasound NS6 Speaker Kit - 4 ohm Woofer - Parts Only: Madisound Speaker Store

Buy 2 of those kits, make some adapters and rock.

I mean they aren't going to slam or have real deep bass...but they will sound MUCH better than the price suggests they should sound. I've used those tweeters in my own car and Chad here uses the mids.


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## Mike-G (Dec 25, 2008)

If you want to stay cheap, here is a plan...

Go to crutchfield.com and find out what fits.

I put in a 2011 Optima and came up with this, your vehicle may differ:
Front: 6.75" Sony Sony XS-GTR1720S $79.99
Rear Door: 6.5" Kenwood KFC-1664S $49.99
4 Channel Amp: Kenwood KAC-2404S (40x4) $149.99
You will also need a wiring kit and RCAs to connect stereo to amp. You will not get deep bass you like without at least a small sub.


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## ProDigit (Feb 20, 2012)

A lot of the coaxial speakers sold on Amazon today, which costed $160 a few years ago, can be gotten for $50 nowadays.
A lot of the 'premium' audio from back in the days has trickled down to the budget market. And while many years ago people would pay premium for this quality, they still are the same speakers, only for a lot less!

I must perhaps admit, not knowing what forum I'd get to, that I may have expected mostly bad answers, but that would probably be normal for someone visiting a forum for the first time.

I know indeed very little of car audio, and it's developments, but I've seen a lot of really ugly gear out there; and car audio never came close to home audio.

I'd not say I'm a complete noob in audio, as I have gained lots of knowledge in other audio equipment (non car-related).

I also think it's not very wise to spend premium dollars on speakers, when you can get pretty good quality speakers for a lot less.
If I wanted studio quality sound,I'd just install my studio monitors in my car, as they will most certainly be more linear, and affordable.

However, I can hardly fathom, that ALL car speakers on the market within the range of $35 to $70 are to be considered bad!
I'm sure that at least a whole bunch of them would be a worthy upgrade to stock car speakers!

So,coming back on my words a bit, 
I'm not seeking studio quality sound. I just want 2 full-range speaker sets (preferably with tweeter), to replace the stock Kia speakers.

Concerning the power output, I checked the manual twice, and am sure it says 27W RMS, but nevertheless, it's a difference of less than 2dB per channel, with 17W RMS, nothing to lay awake over; and nothing that good efficient speakers could compensate for...

As it's pretty impossible for me to get a frequency curve of each speaker and compare it, I'll have to rely on the information available of each speaker, and make my selection in that.
Some information may be better than no information.


When looking for speakers would you suggest speakers that are rated around 50W RMS, or should I seek speakers that are rated with over 200W peak too?

Since I have a Sony radio, would it be wise to buy a Sony speaker too (as many speakers seemingly have the same internals anyway)?


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## ProDigit (Feb 20, 2012)

Just as a reply to some user:

Of course, adding more power via an external amp will open up speakers a lot more, because they are driven in the range they are rated for.
I don't care in showing off my car to a next driver!
I just want the sound for me!
I absolutely do NOT believe I need to add another amp!

But the same effect as you'd get from adding a power amp to drive your 100W rated drivers, you get from driving a lower rated speaker (say a 30W RMS rated speaker) near to it's maximum with the stock radio.

I know it's not always like this, but a low powered driver sounds better driven to it's max, than a high power driver driven at the same wattage (usually).

But even in the $50 range it's very hard to find a 6" driver that is very efficient, while handling lower than 50W of power!
I guess there's a tradeoff there.

Should I stick with poly-injection drivers, or are kevlar drivers worth their premium price?

I personally would believe that kevlar drivers are good for higher power and larger drivers than simple 6" door drivers.


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## pjc (May 3, 2009)

I gonna go with what was mentioned above and I might be totally wrong... Seems like trolling to me. U keep making the same statements and seems as thought u have completely written off what everyone has said. Not to be mean or rude but it seems like a budget of $50 per set and no amp in order to get something that will impress you is not possible. 
And if this is a legit thread I'll add my two cents and I doubt it really means much. I would consider a decent 2 channel amp and a nicer set of front speakers for now. Do the rears later.


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## ProDigit (Feb 20, 2012)

Stück said:


> No offense man, but it seems like you have an interest in car audio, but only know *just enough* to be confused and dangerous. Either that, and I'm surprised no one has called it yet... but you seem to be trolling.


If everything a person writes is trolling, then there should be no internet!
I don't know why in every forum there always must be someone calling some honest people a troll!
I generally am not too fond of such accusations, but will let it pass by. Think what you may, but I honestly am looking for replacement speakers for my kia; and I'm sure there are plenty of sources available (this forum being only one of the many) where I could find the information I need (should it be that I'm not welcome here).


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## ProDigit (Feb 20, 2012)

pjc said:


> I gonna go with what was mentioned above and I might be totally wrong... Seems like trolling to me. U keep making the same statements and seems as thought u have completely written off what everyone has said. Not to be mean or rude but it seems like a budget of $50 per set and no amp in order to get something that will impress you is not possible.
> And if this is a legit thread I'll add my two cents and I doubt it really means much. I would consider a decent 2 channel amp and a nicer set of front speakers for now. Do the rears later.


I do read every reply; and appreciate it too!
And some good, and really helpful replies I have received too!
But I've also received plenty of replies I personally don't agree with, like I don't think it's a necessity to add a power amp to my car. I guess it all depends on where you put your limitations on satisfying quality.
I don't need LOUD music, just a full range, linear sound, which I have been able to get for way less than 200W peak.

No offence, but my car is not a truck, and it's inner space is not too big. And the current volume I get from my radio is plenty loud for me!

Disagreeing with someone's opinion is hardly trolling!
I'm sure there will be some who agree with me, that a regular aftermarket radio could supply sufficient power for a regular listening experience.


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## pjc (May 3, 2009)

If I am wrong I apologize. Here is my suggestion. I know its a few bucks over $50 but you could find some rears for a little less than $50 to make up for it. 

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_31089_Pioneer-TS-A1604C.html

Pioneer makes great product. I personally have never heard these. I have used the next ones up from these and loved them.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

ProDigit said:


> A lot of the coaxial speakers sold on Amazon today, which costed $160 a few years ago, can be gotten for $50 nowadays.
> A lot of the 'premium' audio from back in the days has trickled down to the budget market. And while many years ago people would pay premium for this quality, they still are the same speakers, only for a lot less!
> 
> I must perhaps admit, not knowing what forum I'd get to, that I may have expected mostly bad answers, but that would probably be normal for someone visiting a forum for the first time.
> ...


Power rating is useless for what you're trying to achieve.

We're trying to assist you in making some good decisions and you seem to be pushing back, rather than taking the good sound advice you're being offered. Help us, help you.

The setup that Thehatedguy posted is THE best buy in your budget. I would purchase that setup and do your front doors first. I'd take the money you were going to use for your rear deck speakers and purchase an amp. Even a used amp from the classifieds would be better than the power from your deck.

Trust us, we're here to help.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

ProDigit said:


> A lot of the coaxial speakers sold on Amazon today, which costed $160 a few years ago, can be gotten for $50 nowadays.
> A lot of the 'premium' audio from back in the days has trickled down to the budget market. And while many years ago people would pay premium for this quality, they still are the same speakers, only for a lot less!


Dunno about that. I have been following prices for 2-3 years and I don't see that happening. A speaker that cost $160 a few years ago almost certainly is not being made today and had been replaced with another speaker that costs about the same. The new one is usually marginally better, but certainly not "twice as good" or "as good as the other speaker that cost twice as much years ago". Realize that when the vendor posts the speaker price "$150" then scratches that and wirites "Sale! $50" is usually to dupe you into thinking that you're getting an exceptional value, when in reality $50 is the price that was used all time long.




> However, I can hardly fathom, that ALL car speakers on the market within the range of $35 to $70 are to be considered bad!


Yes.. I would say most of them are garbage.. A lot of them do not even sound better than factory speakers seen on newer cars.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

it's just my two cents, but without adding additional/better power (even to your stock speakers) all other efforts are simply futile. 

add additional speakers if you want, but the results will be marginal at best, especially with your intended budget. i'm not saying you have to spend more, but rather look at what will bring you the best value per dollar.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

ProDigit said:


> I do read every reply; and appreciate it too!
> And some good, and really helpful replies I have received too!
> But I've also received plenty of replies I personally don't agree with, like I don't think it's a necessity to add a power amp to my car. I guess it all depends on where you put your limitations on satisfying quality.
> I don't need LOUD music, just a full range, linear sound, which I have been able to get for way less than 200W peak.



There exists a misconception that a powerful amplifier is primarily used to get louder. It's not true. Even if you don't listen your music loud, the more powerful amplifier should sound better. This is because the more powerful amplifier should be able to handle dynamic peaks better. Let's say your speakers on average are consuming 5watts of power. Since music is dynamic, there will be peaks and valleys in its content. A 10dB peak will require your amplifier to provide 10 times more power, that is 50watts. A bigger peak will require even more. This is just to illustrate. If your amplifier can't provide the necessary power then it will clip the signal. So here is the primary difference, even though you don't listen your music loud, the more powerful amplifier will provide a more realistic sound.


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## deesz (Feb 1, 2010)

Your jumping into a very sq orientated forum of guys. There just simply trying to say that you will not achieve the quality that you quote wanted or asked for with the budget you have. Non the less ill try and help. In that price range I would go with infinith reference speakers. They run 2.6 ohms so you can get a little extra out of your stereo. There not going to be the best for sq but should be what your lookin for. Ill say if you want accurate sound do what people are saying. Besides you bought a new car why cheap out on the system and do it in steps or save up for a few months.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

^ bad idea... those speakers are awful... not to mention your headunit may not like the low impedance. 

but... if all you have is 50 per speaker, and you MUST only change out speakers... it's not a bad way to blow through some cash.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

ProDigit said:


> Just as a reply to some user:
> 
> Of course, adding more power via an external amp will open up speakers a lot more, because they are driven in the range they are rated for.
> I don't care in showing off my car to a next driver!
> ...


Whether you believe it or not, it's still true. More power and headroom will give better dynamics and SQ and less distortion even if you're not pushing full power. I also don't want others hearing my music but I do like it loud just as you said you do. I've heavily soundproofed my car so others can't hear it and the outside world does not interfere with my music.


ProDigit said:


> But the same effect as you'd get from adding a power amp to drive your 100W rated drivers, you get from driving a lower rated speaker (say a 30W RMS rated speaker) near to it's maximum with the stock radio.


That's not even close to correct. I have 6.5s that will handle over 300w and they usually see 20w or less in daily driving and they're just as loud as my old speakers that could only handle 100w. You need to do some more research. You're thinking of efficiency, not power handling.[/QUOTE]


ProDigit said:


> I know it's not always like this, but a low powered driver sounds better driven to it's max, than a high power driver driven at the same wattage (usually).


No, no, no! That is not correct, not even close.


ProDigit said:


> But even in the $50 range it's very hard to find a 6" driver that is very efficient, while handling lower than 50W of power!
> I guess there's a tradeoff there.


Why would you look for something with low power handling???


ProDigit said:


> Should I stick with poly-injection drivers, or are kevlar drivers worth their premium price?


Premium price? My poly drivers were over $2,600 for the mids and midbass. Each one has it's advantages and disadvantages.


ProDigit said:


> I personally would believe that kevlar drivers are good for higher power and larger drivers than simple 6" door drivers.


Why would you believe that????

I have no idea why you came on here asking for suggestions when you know everything already. Just do what you're going to do and forget about this board. I've never seen so many myths and misinformation come from one person in one thread.


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## 1990tsi (Dec 9, 2011)

you'd be better off adding a basic 2 channel amp to your front stock speakers than replacing your speakers with crap from walmart (which is basiclly what your price range is)

your new Kias speakers are a lot better than the 22 year old stock speakers in your old civic (a common example) and are designed for the car. chances are, if you replace your speakers for aftermarket entry level models, you'll actually have 'worse' sound than you do now. If you put an affordable 2 channel on your front speakers you will notice a huge improvement in *everything*

troll


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

1990tsi said:


> you'd be better off adding a basic 2 channel amp to your front stock speakers than replacing your speakers with crap from walmart (which is basiclly what your price range is)
> 
> your new Kias speakers are a lot better than the 22 year old stock speakers in your old civic (a common example) and are designed for the car. chances are, if you replace your speakers for aftermarket entry level models, you'll actually have 'worse' sound than you do now. If you put an affordable 2 channel on your front speakers you will notice a huge improvement in *everything*
> 
> troll


Exactly! My first step was an amp on my stock speakers and while back then I wanted louder, the step up in SQ was a nice surprise. Plus, as you said, stock speakers aren't that bad anymore and are better than many entry level aftermarkets.


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## ProDigit (Feb 20, 2012)

pjc said:


> If I am wrong I apologize. Here is my suggestion. I know its a few bucks over $50 but you could find some rears for a little less than $50 to make up for it.
> 
> Pioneer TS-A1604C (TSA1604C) 6.5" 2-Way Component Speaker System
> 
> Pioneer makes great product. I personally have never heard these. I have used the next ones up from these and loved them.


Those Pioneer TS-A1604 's look pretty good!
I know they create some great gear, but like you said, for the price you're pretty limited in quality,and creating excellent high quality gear, does not guarantee they are just as excellent in their budget series.
But from the specs,it looks to me like they are probably the best drivers I've seen so far!

Only thing is they have the tweeters separate...

I was looking at these from Pioneer:
Amazon.com: Pioneer TS-A6963R 6-Inch X 9-Inch, 270-Watt 3-Way Speakers: Car Electronics

But I think yours are better!


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## ProDigit (Feb 20, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Exactly! My first step was an amp on my stock speakers and while back then I wanted louder, the step up in SQ was a nice surprise. Plus, as you said, stock speakers aren't that bad anymore and are better than many entry level aftermarkets.


Problem is that my stock speakers are already farting out when I set the volume level at 60-75%. I don't want to know what happens when plugging more... I have a 2x300W amp laying here; but I'm firm in believing I don't need it.

Many arguments passed concerning better peak levels, and better max volume, etc... I understand. But I find the volume as is pretty ok! I find the quality also pretty ok! Just that these stock drivers don't have a very bright tweeter, just a paper cone.

As for the stock manufacturing of drivers for cars, I don't believe I own a car that has a driver specially made for my vehicle. The door and trunk drivers don't have ports, so it's a closed system.
In a closed system nearly all drivers will work fine (as long as they're not so powerful that they're rattling the doors and internals).


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## 1990tsi (Dec 9, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> Exactly! My first step was an amp on my stock speakers and while back then I wanted louder, the step up in SQ was a nice surprise. Plus, as you said, stock speakers aren't that bad anymore and are better than many entry level aftermarkets.


Thats the first thing I did with my Cruze with base stereo, hooked up my sub and stock front speakers to a simple PPI 5 channel I has sitting around. huge difference in volume, SQ and enjoyment of sound!

I also know that without spending $200+ on a new component set, deadening my doors and *needing* to build new panels for the mids I'd have worse sound than I do now.


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## 1990tsi (Dec 9, 2011)

ProDigit said:


> Problem is that my stock speakers are already farting out when I set the volume level at 60-75%. I don't want to know what happens when plugging more... I have a 2x300W amp laying here; but I'm firm in believing I don't need it.


They wouldn't be farting out with more power, speakers are killed by distortion from being under powered waaaay more than over powering them.

what 2x300 amp is it? pyramid or pyle?


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## deesz (Feb 1, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> ^ bad idea... those speakers are awful... not to mention your headunit may not like the low impedance.
> 
> but... if all you have is 50 per speaker, and you MUST only change out speakers... it's not a bad way to blow through some cash.


im not saying that there any good by all means. however i am saying he only wants to hear what he wants, and i think those speakers is just that. there has been countless tries to help him out but he fights every answer.


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## deesz (Feb 1, 2010)

1990tsi said:


> They wouldn't be farting out with more power, speakers are killed by distortion from being under powered waaaay more than over powering them.
> 
> what 2x300 amp is it? pyramid or pyle?


Actually speakers are ruined by heat.


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## ProDigit (Feb 20, 2012)

deesz said:


> im not saying that there any good by all means. however i am saying he only wants to hear what he wants, and i think those speakers is just that. there has been countless tries to help him out but he fights every answer.


And it is pretty tiring this forum!

The JBL's they sell on Amazon (6x9) costed 160 A YEAR ago,and are for sale for half that price today!

I'm not here to hear what I want to hear. Opinions are welcome, but if I come with a problem, I want some nice speakers for $75 max, I generally don't want to hear that I have to buy a $200 amp, and $300 speakers and all other stuff I KNOW I won't need!

I'm glad people are trying to help, but PLEASE, STOP CALLING ME A TROLL, just because I stick with my opinion that I just want to exchange my speakers for better ones!

Unlike many of you, I DON'T have $300 spare to buy whatever I want!

Now many people gave their opinions, but no one said that exchanging my original Kia speakers for $100 for a pair, would guarantee in a degradation of sound quality.

Not a single soul seems to understand on this forum that I can exchange the speakers, and could have better sound quality than with the stock ones!

And that I don't seem to understand... And tiring indeed to hear all these people calling someone a troll, just because they wished to have me agree with their opinions.
I've been on a lot of forums, and few forums are void of these behaviors, but it's good to be amongst forums that respect other people's opinions.

If I really want to go and buy myself some crappy speakers, don't get upset if I do against your recommendations! Either help me find the best crappy speakers, or move on to another topic with people who only agree with you!


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## deesz (Feb 1, 2010)

And that's just what i did. infinity reference will do you just fine


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## Remiiii (Apr 24, 2011)

ProDigit said:


> And it is pretty tiring this forum!
> 
> The JBL's they sell on Amazon (6x9) costed 160 A YEAR ago,and are for sale for half that price today!
> 
> ...


There are relatively nice component sets (that are way better than the usual stock speaker) that you can afford for around ~$75
They are considerabley going to sound like MUDDD without having the necessary power to them.
Even if you do happen to get a high quality speaker for relatively low prices - they still need power.

The average person doesnt even look at their head-unit/stereo as a POWER source, but a HEAD UNIT. an AUDIO source.
its not meant to SEND power.
theres not ONE system regarded as being a SQ (soundquality) or decent system that runs off the power of ones head unit.

The first and best thing always is to have the amp. THe thing that will actually power your speakers.
No matter what the average joe - or the popular misconception of the parking lot audio guy may have - running your speakers off of head unit power is NOT good. regardless of what most untrained ears think.


Your best bet instead of shelving out $50 x 4 for speakers
is to find you a nice 50w x 4 Amp. (or of course..more)
You can easily find an array of amps from $100-200
Ones being 2 Channels x 3 x 4 or even 6 - being able to power your WHOLE car.

And that one simple upgrade will be DAY AND NIGHT to what you have now.
You could actually be content with it.

You cant judge the JBL speakers if you havent even tested what their capable of.
And using head unit power no where near provides a good environment for testing capability.
Head Units arent meant to sufficiently power speakers ( hence why their EXAGGERATED advertising of powers...should be a clear sign right there )

and just for fun facts - what 2x300 amp do you actually have.
Do you not think 300w is better than 17-22w?
Do you not think having your head unit specifically worry about procecssing audio and your amp specifically supplying power be better than your itty tiny head unit trying to do ALL of that with its rather high THD, small fuse, and insufficcent power supply?


Take the advice thats given.
Guys are here to help - as long as your entertaining some type of curiousity to learn
You can get some decent/upgrade of speakers for $50
but things come with that territory.
And either way - you WILL need an amp.

Bottom Line.
Please dont try to run speakers off the head unit.
And start there.



Also Edit: Do know that a room in your house and the room in your car are TWO totally different environments.
You mentioning your studio monitors - not a good idea at all. And having those monitors - you should know that they have to be POWERED as well.
Your car's interior is VERY MUCH more dynamic and complex then your simple bedroom studio setup. thats why not one car setup consistently sounds good in every kind of car/environment.

You try wiring your KVRs in your car - and put them up next to my Dayton/Vifa build and see which without a doubt sounds better.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I hope this thread is closed by morning. What a waste of everyone's time. 

OP, throw some Kraco or Infinity speakers in there on headunit power and enjoy your junk.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Mind if I take a crack at it? It's almost 6 a.m. and I'm bored....:laugh:

To keep arguing & debating down, I will keep this fairly short. As for the difference between 6.75" & 6.5" it's only a difference of little over 1/8" on the ends which can be made up with a thin bracket fabricated from wood or plastic. Should be easy finding some throw away plastic bracket someone didn't use with their set. Also you can just fit them and add some type of sealant around the speaker's flange like butyl rope to fill the gap. Minimum finagling is often needed when dealing with the two size difference and is common so don't sweat it. In fact one suggestion is given in one of the speaker's ratings.. Here's my suggestions:

Speaker Buyouts From Parts Express - Unbelievable Low Prices


Speaker Buyouts From Parts Express - Unbelievable Low Prices


Also pay attention to the exposed tweeter wiring on the 6.5". This will enable you to disconnect the tweeter should you want to add some separate tweeters up on the pillars or dash later on leaving the doors to just midbass/midrange.


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## pjc (May 3, 2009)

Here you say just because the company make quality gear it doesnt mean that that the budget stuff they make is good. You have a crazy low budget, and there is nothing wrong with a budget, but you have to understand the budgets limit. ou can find great stuff within a budget but if the budget doesnt allow for many choices thats a different story.
I am confused... you dont want loud, but you want great sound? You want nice staging but not willing to have a sperate tweeter? You are not willing to add an amp and you are convinced that deck power is sufficient. And all of this on a budget of $50 per set.
Im gonna follow this thread for shear entertainment and to pass time at work. But no more posting for me. I wish ya the best of luck in your quest for SQ on a $100 budget and deck power.




ProDigit said:


> Those Pioneer TS-A1604 's look pretty good!
> I know they create some great gear, but like you said, for the price you're pretty limited in quality,and creating excellent high quality gear, does not guarantee they are just as excellent in their budget series.
> But from the specs,it looks to me like they are probably the best drivers I've seen so far!
> 
> ...


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

ProDigit said:


> PLEASE, STOP CALLING ME A TROLL, just because I stick with my opinion


Troll  and it's because you are contentious and opinionated, but clearly not knowing the first thing about anything.


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## tadef (Jun 1, 2010)

Stück said:


> No offense man, but it seems like you have an interest in car audio, but only know *just enough* to be confused and dangerous. Either that, and I'm surprised no one has called it yet... but you seem to be trolling.
> 
> ...
> 
> You have to understand you have come to a forum overwhelmingly dominated by audiophiles. Next to no one here would call a set of 4 $50 speakers running off a low end Sony decks built in amp a system, let alone something that sounds good...


I resisted because I'm a newb, but YES.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

I hope you are a troll really.... A troll knows better, and knows what they are doing... Trying to get a rise out of people, and arguing out of sheer entertainment purposes for themselves.

If your not a troll, you come to a forum seeking advice, and direction, hopefully to learn and/contribute...but instead, when given good solid advice, you refuse to entertain the notion because it differs from what you THINK you know, then continue to argue about it.

I'd rather deal with a troll (they can get banned)...

... Than someone refusing to learn or accept help from knowledgeable people.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

ProDigit said:


> Many arguments passed concerning better peak levels, and better max volume, etc... I understand. But I find the volume as is pretty ok! I find the quality also pretty ok! Just that these stock drivers don't have a very bright tweeter, just a paper cone.


Well, you never know what you're missing until you actually hear a better setup. Amplifying even very cheap coaxial speakers changes their sound considerably. Anyways, I just curious why you keep coming here looking for advise. I was one of the first to post a reply. Others posts echoed the same advise. However, it seems like you have made up your mind about what you want to do. So go ahead and do it and stop wasting everyone's time.





> The door and trunk drivers don't have ports, so it's a closed system.
> In a closed system nearly all drivers will work fine (as long as they're not so powerful that they're rattling the doors and internals).


It amusing to read about your misguided assumptions of what will work best ...


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## rockytophigh (Apr 16, 2008)

Hey! You'll need an amp! lmao


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## pjc (May 3, 2009)

Gotta chime in again. I can't help it. The comment about the doors not having ports and being a "closed system" should more than reinforce the fact that this is trolling. Who really thinks that?


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I ran a system on HU power years ago, on stock speakers. But the car had rears, doors, and dash tweets stock. It sounded pretty good just did not go that loud. It lacked bottom of course. I had an 8" powered tube and stuck that in there, and it was usable I have to say. Not loud but it sounded better than most stock systems at the time and could just overcome most any road noise if windows were up.

It is not possible for a HU to have over about 18rms, because they can't fit a power supply inside one therefor it only has 12v to work with. They can't fit transformers in a HU either. A 4x50 amp would be a lot nicer, but up to you. You can find used amps way cheaper than new and that is what I would recommend if you don't have the budget.

Far as speakers, lower rated speakers tend to be more efficient. You would want say 35-50W rated speakers, really just the 35w ones mostly for a stock HU application. Butif you get an amp later you can blow them with 50w.

Stay large as you can with the speakers to gain more bass. Cheaper coax can sound pretty good, but it is a crap shoot you have to go listen to them and figure out what ones would work best in your install...what ones do sound good. Expensive speakers will have a minimum SQ, while cheaper ones you never know. I would say a major brand is best place to start such as alpine/kenwood/RF/mtx/pioneer/etc/etc. companies that have been around a long time for good reason. Try to determine if you need a speaker that is bright or needs more low bass, or whatever it is you want and is affected by the mounting location in your install. Search for what other people used in your model car on forums. That is about all you can do unless you know a good installer.....some of them will know the best setup because they do them all the time. 

Ha, I've used infinity and like them. They tend to not have as strong of bass but then I always run a sub anyway. They are usually a good deal for the cost.

In the end stuff costs what it costs, if you don't have the budget then you go used and/or start shopping for a deal.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

^^^^^^^ this!

I understand everyone's woes on certain behavior or misunderstanding, but way too many people are just jumping in name-calling & such, adding to the chaos. Not very professional at all.... rather childish and bandwagon-like. It is up to the OP if he takes the advise or not. If he doesn't, then okay his loss. If he debates and you know better, then why involve yourself even more? 

You wind up lowering yourself to the same likes of which you accuse, do you not? Anyways, no offense to anyone. Let's keep it moving....


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I usually buy like one new thing for every install on one of my cars. All the used stuff I found deals on, though I have to say ebay is barren for used stuff today compared to what it used to be. Much of the stuff in my car is used either I had it or bought it used at some point. I bought the HU new, the kappa amp new, but I think both were factory refurbs. The subs were brand new but at $47 TMD each that was not a big deal lol. I see used even broken 880prs for more than I paid. Oh, and I've been working on this car for over 3 years. I had a kicker 700.5 refurb in there before and I think I sold that for more than I paid or about the same.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

bayboy and SQShoestring...
Thanks for coming in here with a bit of class.

To the original poster,

not sure if it was covered but some of the reason you may be distorting is because the factory speakers are playing full range. Also you have probably increased the power with your new head unit verses the factory. Remember how much better they sounded with the head unit swap? odds are it was not the head unit per se but rather the factory head units amplifier circuit.

You increased the power available and the speakers sounded better. Less distortion. Its also often overlooked what eq functions do. Every 3db increase requires double power. Even for that specific frequency/s. So the end result is your amp hits that brick wall that much sooner and distorts that much faster and potentially greater.

Now while I am not in the same school of thought that rear speakers are the anti-christ. Not everybody is worried about perfect front row center reproduction with an accurate soundstage. They just want good sound that gets as loud as they would want on their favorite songs. Not everybody places those SQ traits as the most important. They often project their values/requirements/desires on other people. it's very common on any forum. 

Also not to say that some of the detractors on here are wrong. They are just not conveying their point accurately or explaining it correctly. Even replacing the speakers, odds are you will find that you will run into the same issues you are experiencing now. Oh they may get a little louder as we don't know how efficient the factory speakers are and the new speakers may reproduce more of the frequency range because we don't know if the factory speakers are just a paper cone with a whizzer cone and the new speakers actually have a dedicated tweeter etc... your limiting factor will still be power or lack there of.

I would look at at Bayboy's recommendations

or 

thehatedguy's are seriously the best for the money sq-wise

Aurasound NS6 Speaker Kit - 4 ohm Woofer - Parts Only: Madisound Speaker Store


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Okay, your giving props to guys coming in to the thread with class, that's cool. 
But let's look at this for a second...
Several different people offered him advice, and he argued with almost all of them. It was explained that he had some misinformation, or wrong ideas, about things... He argued more... Other people tried to word it differently to him, so maybe he could understand the concepts being explained.. he still argued.
At what point does a regular here start to get the feeling he's being played... When a new guy comes on asking advise, and then argues with the given advise over, and over.... Remember, His only posts are in this thread! 

I can't speak for everyone in this thread, but as far as I'm concerned, I don't like the implication of not having class, or being unprofessional. I call them as I see them... If he's a troll he should be banned. If he's not, then he shouldn't come on here, ask advise, and then argue with the guys nice enough to TRY and educate him. he should show a little 'class' and humility, and acknowledge maybe these guys are trying to help, and teach him something.

And I can't be unprofessional... I'm not in the industry or sales. It's my hobby and I enjoy it dearly... Along with this site. And it irritates the hell out of me when people troll it, or come in with terrible attitudes not wanting to learn.

I may not agree with what some may have said, but I understand the frustration.

But, thanks for the spanking, I haven't had one in some time.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> Okay, your giving props to guys coming in to the thread with class, that's cool.
> But let's look at this for a second...
> Several different people offered him advice, and he argued with almost all of them. It was explained that he had some misinformation, or wrong ideas, about things... He argued more... Other people tried to word it differently to him, so maybe he could understand the concepts being explained.. he still argued.
> At what point does a regular here start to get the feeling he's being played... When a new guy comes on asking advise, and then argues with the given advise over, and over.... Remember, His only posts are in this thread!
> ...


No spanking intended. But what I do try to provide is maybe a pause to reflect how we sometimes come across. Text based communications is the worst.

As for if he is a troll or not, here is how I look at his post. If I or you went to a forum where you had some knowledge, ideas etc that you THOUGHT were correct and posted a limited budget question, AND by the second page it was coming down to name calling let alone theclaims you needed extra equipment or higher dollar items that you stated as a budget. Odds are you would be argumentative as well. I don't know how many threads I see on here where people are snarky or blowing the person off telling them to go to car audio .com or some other non "SQ" oriented site.

IF this site and its members is so dedicated to the science behind audio then let's fight possible trolling AND ignorance with that science.

We all saw the problems he was having (lack of power and stock speakers). He thinks it's just speakers. It was mentioned in a couple of threads but nothing was explained to well where someone who THOUGHT he knew the issue could be convinced that maybe he wasn't aware of everything involved.

Anyway, I have been a member since 07. It's not the same forum as it was then but I would still like the same atmosphere that it had then. less aggressive, more helpful. If you don't want to coddle then suggest a search. If they are way off base, and in this thread I think the person was, you have to do more. I see this stuff so much with teenagers that I guess I am more patient with them and those types of questions.


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## 1990tsi (Dec 9, 2011)

I feel the people who were 'being too harsh on the lil guy' were justified in their responses.

at the end of the day, he's not going to get what he wants from replacing the speakers alone on that budget, however, he could acheive greatness (as per budget) in doing something else that was suggested by myself and many others in the thread. 

but instead of saying "hey maybe they're right, I would find a cheap used 4 channel amp on craigslist and wire it up myself and have a lot better sound with what I already have" he argued it down and made himself look like a troll.


now I'm not always right, everyone has their days, but the 2nd page was the end of this thread to me really, and the grand national fellow who I havn't seen make a bad post yet here said it best. check it out for the official end of this thread.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Very true, and I agree with you completely. Unfortunately, I wasn't here during the height of the site, but have read numerous threads from that time. I agree.. different atmosphere.

I just lost my cool a little bit... You know how we all hate generalizations. that was the only reason I posted back, past my initial post. My apology for my little rant, but I still stand by how I feel. However, I will try to be slow to react in the future. Lol

And it's so true how meaning, and intent get lost in written/text communication. I hope if the op is genuine in his intent, he sticks around and gets to learn along with the rest of us.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

1990tsi said:


> I feel the people who were 'being too harsh on the lil guy' were justified in their responses.
> 
> at the end of the day, he's not going to get what he wants from replacing the speakers alone on that budget, however, he could acheive greatness (as per budget) in doing something else that was suggested by myself and many others in the thread.
> 
> ...


Problem is, I took him at his word on his budget. What if he doesn't have more money to spend? AND he wants to still do the upgrade? Do you still tell him he is crazy/stupid/wrong? He should still get better sound by replacing the stock speakers just based on quality of the aftermarket drivers relatively speaking. Not saying you shouldn't also inform him of the system limitations that his current/upgraded set up is still going to have with the lack of power. 

Again, I guess I am used to this due to dealing with my son's and nephew's friends. always a very limited budget. usually though it's getting max db's out of the very least amount of cash.:laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

I cant believe everyone coming in and telling him he needs other gear. It is possible to upgrade speakers and get better performance. Yes more power would be better, but he clearly stated he didnt have money for it. So I dont see what the big fuss is. Not everyone on this planet or forum is a "audiophile" as you guys consider yourselves. 98 percent of car audio sales are not to achieve the "best" playback. Its just to give a good upgrade over crappy stock sound that people can listen to and enjoy their music with. Something to bring alittle more life and feeling to the music. Anybody that didnt want to help him with his search of speakers in his budget should have just skipped to the next thread in the first place. 

Back in the day we used to run speakers off HU power, and they did just fine. Huge upgrade over any stock stereo. Maybe his wanting "Pro" speakers on a ultra tight budget was alittle ambitious, but so what.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I don't think anyone on this thread is particularly wrong, or however you want to put it. Generally I only answer posts like this because someone will search for something and pull this up some day, or be lurker reading it now, and maybe it helps them. I mean sure I hope it helps the OP just saying they are not the only ones that will read it.

I've used a lot of cheap stuff over the years, I'm strange that way and like to do it...not sure why lol. Some of it is junk, some ok, some of it works great. The good stuff tends to work for a particular install like my subs for example. Don't ever expect cheap stuff to be perfect for multiple apps or take huge power and be reliable, but it can work if you don't need that. I don't need 1Kw on pair of 15s, cheap subs will work fine and these pyles fit the bill. They look like an older sub design, and that can work fine for lower xmax long as its built well enough. The big problem with cheap stuff is you need to try it. That is why I say an installer at X store can tell you what cheap coax sound the best out of all the models they sell, he is the goto guy for sure.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

ProDigit said:


> Just as a reply to some user:
> 
> Of course, adding more power via an external amp will open up speakers a lot more, because they are driven in the range they are rated for.
> I don't care in showing off my car to a next driver!
> ...


It was this post that annoyed me. I'm "some user".

The sheer number of assumptions and arrogance in this post is overwhelming.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I stand by my statements and the point of it is whether anyone here considers themselves a professional or not, think about how you would want to be treated if you went to a shop. Regardless if you thought you was right or vice-versa, if you don't like or agree with what you were being told would you accept being labeled or called a name? Surely not. You would just move on. I have experienced it as well in shops myself. I'm not the brightest by far, but I do have some decent minimum knowledge so if I am advising someone it is my responsibility to have a professional attitude so they won't be turned off by that alone. 

I have a whole lot of respect for the people on here for their knowledge & creativity including ones in this particular thread. It's just a bit disappointing to see it result in the way it did, especially when other threads go unanswered when the OP seemed closed minded. I rather have seen it go that way, but that is not for me to decide. Everyone has their own mind and I can respect that.

As for the theory of more power and such.... I agree, yet only to a certain extent. Of course more power is good, but so is matching up better drivers for the same power output. I can't say for sure that the OP's stock drivers were decent enough that they couldn't be improved upon while still using HU power. I know I have done it myself as well as there is a market geared for such with plenty of coax with low power requirements. With some of the clearance & buyout drivers sold at PE it is often possible to even put together a cheap component set that can outdo stock on HU power. That I have done and continue to find a thrill in that over spending X amount of dollars. It's a challenge that can help benefit others with limited funds. I see nothing wrong with that and so do others obviously when threads are filled with links to such gear including reviews.

In that respect, it doesn't always have to be about buying upper tier gear, running full blown setups, and bash those who don't. Our knowledge can be used to find those hidden gems that beat the system, can it not?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

As far as his statement "some user" and possible others goes BuickGN.... it was inappropriate, I agree. I personally messaged the OP and gave a little advice on public relations so to speak. Hopefully he will calm down as well as everyone else and move beyond this episode without any hard feelings. Undoubtedly he is still learning, just as quite a few here whether we like to admit it or not. Name calling, snide remarks, etc on either side never helps... it just kills the thread where someone other than the OP (like myself) may have learned something. After all, this is the "No Question Is Dumb" forum...


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Bayboy said:


> In that respect, it doesn't always have to be about buying upper tier gear, running full blown setups, and bash those who don't. Our knowledge can be used to find those hidden gems that beat the system, can it not?




Sure can, I ran $8 tweeters for years from radio shack. Put the same caps on them as high end tweets used and they sounded the same, both were 1" domes.

I still understand why people buy more expensive stuff, and in some cases it is worth doing it really depends on your install and objectives. For example I want good SQ from my subs, but when I can feel the seat pumping from the subs I don't care about SQ anymore its too loud to hear properly anyway...but can be fun on occasion. I can do this because a pair of 15s IB has significant output before they start to get some xmax/distortion, it would not work as well with less cone area then you might need a better sub.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

BuickGN said:


> It was this post that annoyed me. I'm "some user".
> 
> The sheer number of assumptions and arrogance in this post is overwhelming.


Now see I read it totally different. I see a person, yes with assumptions, and yes with assumptions that are wrong or rather not entirely correct. But I don't see the arrogance. Again. Text based communication sucks for implying intent and tone unless actually being specific (Cubdenno,your opinions suck and you are a jag off!).

That's why I try to let all know that if it can be taken two different ways even remotely, take it the good way or at least the way that can be read with the least amount of *******-ishness possible. If I am being an *******, there will be zero chance of misunderstanding that.:laugh:





ProDigit said:


> Just as a reply to some user:
> 
> Of course, adding more power via an external amp will open up speakers a lot more, because they are driven in the range they are rated for.
> I don't care in showing off my car to a next driver!
> ...


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I feel ya there SQshoestring... I still boast about the Jamo buyout midwoofers that Zaph reviewed. I know some have seen me talk about them every once in a while, yet others discarded them because of the surround issue. Currently have 2 pairs in the closet with one of the pairs fully auditioned. I actually like them better than the RS180's I have in the doors now, more bass with way less breakup. I've crossed them all the way down to below 60hz with minimum problems. Can't do that with the Daytons with any advantage. The cost.... $9 each!!!! Paired with the Dayton Neo tweets, man I couldn't believe how cheap it actually cost compared to how it sounded.

Done the same in the past with some Audax 6.5" drivers that cost $12 each. It's just fun to see the look on my buddies' faces when they hear it and how much it cost. Still, I respect high quality gear, I just have more fun playing with the low cost stuff.... I'm a tinkerer.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

I don't think the issue was his budget. Was his stated budget unrealistic.. that's not for me to say. But most, if not all of us, have to work within a budget of some sorts.

I think the issue was how he presented himself, when replying to the posts. I agree, he can take the advise, Or leave it... That's his decision. He can more than likely get better sound from just changing out his speakers, and could up it even more with added power. But if that's not in his budget, okay. 
Look at it another way... If you had some knowledge, or thought You did, and walked into a shop requesting the most expensive comp set... Because it was the best.
Now let's say the sales person starts telling you cost doesn't mean the best, and a less expensive set would get you just as good of results with proper install and tuning. 
But, then you tell him no, the price means it has better technology behind it, and it must be the best.
The sellers then starts to explain marketing, advertising, and the Like that is also part of the cost, etc, etc. But you continue to argue.

Now the seller is going to make the sale, because the customer is always right, and he's making money for his shop... But how does he feel about that guy?
He tried to help him, tried to educate him, but the customer refused to listen.. because he thought he knew better. Do things like idiot, sucker, or it's your money, cross his mind... Maybe. Probably.

The difference here is, we're not bound to make a shop money, we don't have "the customer is always right" to live by. Or livelihood isn't invested in the advise(sale) we offer. Well, vendors and reps yes, but not the hobbyists.

It's the arguing, The unwillingness to even think about what was being offered, that got people irritated. Not his budget. 

I don't know how to build an amp. If I ask for advise on building an amp, I'm sure not going to argue with the guys telling me how to do it. Why? Because I understand they know more about it than I do, and they're trying to help... And They don't have to. 

And I don't know why I keep replying to this...

Of course I agree with you, and all that said it could've gone down better, but I see and feel the other side of It too. But, it's time to unsubscribe. I don't want to irritate anyone any further. Sorry all...


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> I don't think the issue was his budget. Was his stated budget unrealistic.. that's not for me to say. But most, if not all of us, have to work within a budget of some sorts.
> 
> I think the issue was how he presented himself, when replying to the posts. I agree, he can take the advise, Or leave it... That's his decision. He can more than likely get better sound from just changing out his speakers, and could up it even more with added power. But if that's not in his budget, okay.
> Look at it another way... If you had some knowledge, or thought You did, and walked into a shop requesting the most expensive comp set... Because it was the best.
> ...


:laugh:

I know. I am done as well. We can all agree to disagree or whatever and just move on. After all it's simply a car audio forum and not the real world. No hard feelings I hope. And hopefully the OP will get something out of this on audio, how to present himself better and how to deal with the advice given.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Jcollin, why leave off this thread? No one is getting irritated that I can see... we're just stating our perspectives like true adults including you. Nothing wrong with that.... The funny thing is we all pretty much are agreeing, just being stated differently. The same thing Cubdenno talked about is the same thing I complain to my lady friend about when we text. Some things can be easily taken out of text.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

Bayboy said:


> Jcollin, why leave off this thread? No one is getting irritated that I can see... we're just stating our perspectives like true adults including you. Nothing wrong with that.... The funny thing is we all pretty much are agreeing, just being stated differently. The same thing Cubdenno talked about is the same thing I complain to my lady friend about when we text. Some things can be easily taken out of text.


Lol I know. We are not irritated...not Now anyway. but as you eluded to, we're all saying the same thing. The op hasn't been back, not that I blame him, and I think all that should be said has been. 
If he should return to this with more questions, I'll check in... And help if I can. Otherwise it's a dead topic. Just time to move on I think...


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## deesz (Feb 1, 2010)

ill try and help lol
West Coast Customs WCC650 6-1/2" 2-Way Convertible Coaxial Component Speaker | eBay 
probably get reamed for this one but there actually pretty good for the price. i saw them on clearance at bestbuy for 50 bucks and i have heard one set. there actually pretty good sounding. when i saw them i was shocked because there identical as the d6 diamond audio speakers and i think there was even a write up on here about them being mad by diamond audio. i would say get these and then start saving up for a amp. to the op your only good as your weakest link, so that being said. instead of buying your whole system with 100 bucks buy just front components for 100 and then save buy rear speakers for around 100 then save and buy an amp for 100 i think you could get the alpine mrp-f300 for around 100 bucks. this set up will do pretty good and your only spending 300 bucks.


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## 1990tsi (Dec 9, 2011)

deesz said:


> this set up will do pretty good and your only spending 300 bucks.



you're $200 over budget. He said he wants pro quality speakers for $50. suggesting your idea will only make him mad and argue with you.

so suggestions must be for 'pro quality' and have to be $50 per pair that will run on deck power and I assume fit in factory locations.... 

whats so hard about this?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Dude... just let it go. You still have issues on it so why continue?

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk


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## deesz (Feb 1, 2010)

1990tsi said:


> you're $200 over budget. He said he wants pro quality speakers for $50. suggesting your idea will only make him mad and argue with you.
> 
> so suggestions must be for 'pro quality' and have to be $50 per pair that will run on deck power and I assume fit in factory locations....
> 
> whats so hard about this?


:laugh:

i know however he could start in his budget with just the speakers and work his way up...


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Jeebus...

How about this then,

pick a woof from these choices

6-1/2" Woofer 4 Ohm 299-090

Focal 6M115 6-1/2" Midbass Speaker 299-155

and pair with this tweeter
3/4" Mylar Dome Shielded Tweeter 4 Ohm 279-116

And use a small cap and prolly a resistor or small lpad to level match. You can let the woofer roll off on it's own or figure out a 1st order crossover on the cheap.

Or breaking the bank a bit pick these woofers instead

Aura NS6-255-8A 6" Paper Cone Neodymium Magnet Woofer 299-030

close to 50 bucks and definately under a 100. There is enough resources here or partsexpress techtalk to get led in the right direction for a simple crossover for the 4 sets of speakers (tweeter and mid) Should work well with low power and sound better than factory. If you figure the crossover right, they will prolly sound better than a lot of components you can buy car audio branded, especially using the Aura woofers.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

^^^^^^ Ditto! Gotta love PE for the buyouts. Lots of hidden gems that can often beat out most budget to medium tier shelf products.


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## gjmallory (Apr 13, 2010)

I just have to say...This forum is the FREAKIN Nicest forum EVERRRR!  This is the only forum, that I have found that will break it's collective "back" to provide accurate and insightful advice to a complete Noob. Even "Know-it-all", argumentative Noobs that for some reason take the time to ask a question, with no intention to listen to the advice...get really good treatment. Please consider this a big "Thank you!"\"Shout Out" to all of the people that make DIYMA such a great place.


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## rockytophigh (Apr 16, 2008)

Didn't he say $50 PER speaker??? Why not go $80 on front comps or coax....30 on rear coax....a cheap $70 4 channel amp and $20 on an install kit for the amp. Then we could walk him through how to put it in without damaging the car or equipment. Jeez this can't be that damn hard. I'm going out for a Jack & Diet...or two...or three. Peace.


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## ProDigit (Feb 20, 2012)

Thanks rockytophigh, as far as the situation is now,I am thinking about coax, front and back. 4x Pioneers. I've been looking over the specs and they'll do just fine.
The backs I'll take some of the higher lines of pioneer. They support more power,just in case I decide to install my 2x200W power amp and power the trunk speakers from that.

As far as woofers,forget about that. Woofers add lots of vibes, but I'm not looking for vibes, neither for decreasing my MPG by 5 just for powering the speakers.
Besides, I'm not into destroying the trunk or back plate to fit in woofers, and neither want to run subs from within the trunk (as that would sound really awful).

The amp I have (should I ever need it, but I doubt it), could always power the back speakers. Eventhough Pioneer's speakers are not rated with a very high power rating, they are pretty efficient, and easily can sound (according to specs) just as loud as less efficient drivers ran by an amp with double the power.

Total cost so far: 2x$50 for front door speakers (special amazon deal,as normally they are priced $67/driver),and 2x$80 for the rear speakers.

Poweramp is free,as I still have it laying around, but first I'll test the setup from the deck.


2 pieces of advise I could use is:
Should I buy any adapter cables when installing the new speakers, or you think the old ones are soldered,or have compatible speaker plugs that fit all speakers?

And a second:
In the front I only have door speakers. No special space for tweeters.
Should I buy front door speakers with separate tweeters, or should I get one speaker with tweeter built into the center?
The thing is, that the speaker is below my left knee when I'm driving,and my leg is eating all the high frequencies of that driver. When no one is in the passenger's side, the current driver blasts too bright sound into my ears. I haven't yet found a good solution for it. Best would be if there was an easy installation kit, where I could wire some tweeters straight off the radio deck, and stick/glue them on my front dashboard. 
I know this way the tweeters and front door speakers are not aligned, but I rather have a balanced distribution of high frequencies than have drivers that perfectly align high and mid frequencies, but where one driver is covered by my leg and thus loses all the high frequencies anyway.

I could also put regular bass/mid drivers in the doors, and get the brights and lows from the trunk speakers.

Does any system like this exist (a set where one can glue tweeters on the dashboard)?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

ProDigit said:


> Thanks rockytophigh, as far as the situation is now,I am thinking about coax, front and back. 4x Pioneers. I've been looking over the specs and they'll do just fine.
> The backs I'll take some of the higher lines of pioneer. They support more power,just in case I decide to install my 2x200W power amp and power the trunk speakers from that.


More power to the rears than the fronts?


ProDigit said:


> As far as woofers,forget about that. Woofers add lots of vibes, but I'm not looking for vibes, neither for decreasing my MPG by 5 just for powering the speakers.
> Besides, I'm not into destroying the trunk or back plate to fit in woofers, and neither want to run subs from within the trunk (as that would sound really awful).


Lol. Trunk mounted subs sound awful. Lollololo And those vibes, just awful. I agree, you will lose 5hp from your system.....if you're pushing 4,000 watts rms.


ProDigit said:


> And a second:
> In the front I only have door speakers. No special space for tweeters.
> Should I buy front door speakers with separate tweeters, or should I get one speaker with tweeter built into the center?


Aren't you getting coaxials already?



ProDigit said:


> I could also put regular bass/mid drivers in the doors, and get the brights and lows from the trunk speakers.


?????


ProDigit said:


> Does any system like this exist (a set where one can glue tweeters on the dashboard)?


Lol.

This is exactly what I was talking about previously. 

You state trunk mounted subs sound awful.

You state mpg will be reduced by 5mpg.

You state you might put the better speakers in the rear because you might run more power to the rears.

You contradict yourself by saying you're using coaxials and they asking if you could mount the tweeters on the dash which is a very bad idea.

You mention something about running the "brights and lows" from the "trunk" speakers.

I was a noob just a year ago but I came on here asking for advice humbly and with an open mind knowing I was didn't know a whole lot and before that I spent a couple years just reading. I see lots of assumptions stated as facts. Instead of coming off as arrogant, why not spend some time reading and researching or at least being open to good advice. If you asked how trunk mounted subs would sound or asked if your mpg would be noticeably reduced it would be one thing. Instead you said 99% of the systems on this forum must sound awful.


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## deesz (Feb 1, 2010)

I still think at 50 bucks you should go with the wcc components up front. but hey what do i know. you want pro sound but think entry level pioneers are good. also instead of rushing into it because you got your tax return, wait it out go listen to speakers. there will always be deals. we will start from the beginning. think of your car as a concert hall. where does the sound come from? the musician that's in front of you. that's what we try to reproduce. half the guys on here don't run rear speakers for that reason. components give you more flexibility and a better/ higher sound stage. rear speakers are there for a fill to create a larger atmosphere. subs aren't there for just feeling there to help blend mid bass with low end notes that coaxial can't produce. human ear hears 20Hz to 20kHz. coaxials especially pioneers only play from 70Hz up givin the right environment. a well sealed door. Hope some of this help in your quest to figure out pro sound and knowing what the hell your looking for.


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## deesz (Feb 1, 2010)

And to answer your question on the advice needed. 
1. no they won't just plug in.
2. its been answered in every other post components are your best bet. 
3. not asked but will give it, take it somewhere and just pay someone


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

deesz said:


> I still think at 50 bucks you should go with the wcc components up front. but hey what do i know. you want pro sound but think entry level pioneers are good. also instead of rushing into it because you got your tax return, wait it out go listen to speakers. there will always be deals. we will start from the beginning. think of your car as a concert hall. where does the sound come from? the musician that's in front of you. that's what we try to reproduce. half the guys on here don't run rear speakers for that reason. components give you more flexibility and a better/ higher sound stage. rear speakers are there for a fill to create a larger atmosphere. subs aren't there for just feeling there to help blend mid bass with low end notes that coaxial can't produce. human ear hears 20Hz to 20kHz. coaxials especially pioneers only play from 70Hz up givin the right environment. a well sealed door. Hope some of this help in your quest to figure out pro sound and knowing what the hell your looking for.


I don't know why but ever since I saw those Zeus $60 components in another thread and the buyer was very impressed with, I've wanted to give them a shot. Maybe those would work for this particular thread as well. I might give them a try in one of the company vehicles.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I've heard a pair of the Zeus 5.25" component sets in a coworker's jeep a couple of years ago so I don't know how much, or if they've changed any. Wasn't anywhere as bad as I thought they would sound when he told me what he had. Pretty bright sounding, but clarity was pretty good. With some little tuning they could have been better of course. Midbass was normal of a 5.25" so I won't comment on that, but I was impressed with how loud & cleaned they played off a 50 watt per channel JBL amp. In respect to that I wouldn't be ashamed to recommend them.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Bayboy said:


> I've heard a pair of the Zeus 5.25" component sets in a coworker's jeep a couple of years ago so I don't know how much, or if they've changed any. Wasn't anywhere as bad as I thought they would sound when he told me what he had. Pretty bright sounding, but clarity was pretty good. With some little tuning they could have been better of course. Midbass was normal of a 5.25" so I won't comment on that, but I was impressed with how loud & cleaned they played off a 50 watt per channel JBL amp. In respect to that I wouldn't be ashamed to recommend them.


They probably come from a build house that makes components for several different brands.

think Arc and the manny that makes them. Same speaker but you pay 4X more for the arc sticker. Research the Klippel reports for Arc on here


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Are you referring to the Arc & SBA posts? If so I've read that one and found it quite interesting. What I also found quite intriguing was some remarks made by a Arc rep:


ARC Audio Black series - SB Acoustics? - Forums - Mobile Electronics AU - Page 2

Didn't see the one about the house build or maybe I overlooked it. I will have to look again. Being able to include certain Hifonics midwoofers in a budget lineup would be nice.


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## Deathjunior (Aug 2, 2011)

So I read through most of this forum and I think I'll add my two cents. 1 I have no idea why you want to put upgraded rear speakers in as well as fronts when if you have the money to put towards a decent set of fronts you won't need the rears. I haven't had my rear speakers running in 10 months an I couldn't care less. This is because music is recorded in stereo that is 2 channel sound. Rear speakers are there for fill or for passengers and i'm willing to bet 90 percent of the time no ones in your back seat. 

Next I don't see why you want to use coaxials so bad and not components. Yes components are harder to install and are usually a slight amount less efficient when it comes to power but because the crossovers in a comp are bigger and better built you will find that a loss of 1 watt is worth the gain in large amounts of SQ it also means you can get a more surrounding feel on your front stage. 

Next trunk mounted subwoofers do a whole hell of a lot more than provide rattles. There is no speaker even close to your price range that is going to produce notes below the 80 Hz mark and still be decently audible so your going to lose a lot of your low notes in general not just bass lines. Bass guitars, bass drums, voices with deep tones, these all can hit tones in the 100 and below area. You will get clearer treble but not much more. 

As stated before many a times amp your front stage. First of all most off the shelf stereos in the low price bracket aren't CEA compliant and don't make rated power niether the on the box peak rated or the RMS rating. And if they manage to make that power they usually have a rather terrible THD(total harmonic distortion at said rated power) Head room is important when it comes to sound quality. Clean wattage matters more than anything. Even a small well built standalone amp for instance a tiny linear power HV 2.2 will sound oceans better than your built in amplifier. More than likely it is already distorting your existing speakers at the so called 60% mark. Most stereos I have found can go up to 35 or even 50 and will distort at about 20 to 25. If amps didn't provide better sound quality then the SQ world champions would be running on HU power. But by example a pair of that HV 2.2 I mention earlier was in a world points champion truck and all it ran was a set of 6 and a half inch components and 1 small 10 inch ported subwoofer.

This is a sound quality forum, trusting those who are here to help you is important. Please at-least read it over and try to understand. Its not that we are putting you down or insulting you. Many of us are much more experienced. Hell I'm not even close to a lot of these guys but the thing is i'm willing to listen. You will find many people here have medals in competitions for this sort of thing

As for my opinions on what you should do. I reccomend polk audio DB components at they reach a decent low end both on Deck power and they really really brighten up on amped power. they will run you a lot less as well about 125 bucks on sonic. Then I would put a small but decent amplifier on them and shoot for a small subwoofer maby 150 watts say an RE REx10 inch for about 50 bucks. Then you can either use your existing amplifier on the fronts and run a sub amp or you can just buy a decent 4 channel and run the back half bridged


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

go to best buy get the wcc650 components. They're 60. get the 6x9 components for the rear. throw your amp on the fronts and be happy as a pig in sh*t or clam in sand or dog in the sun or whatever stupid idiom you want. Dont' get the pioneers. trust me you'll be happier with components.

these are west coast customs speakers made by diamond audio!


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## Deathjunior (Aug 2, 2011)

No they are not made by Diamond Audio though they are made by diamonds parent company DEI who owns companies like Orion,Diamond, They also own RE audio, however some of these companies aren't run by DEI they are just funded and owned by them much like Dell and Alienware. Compared to literally any and every other component set best buy sells in store, the WCC sets sound quite bad... This is from personal experience.


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## gtsdohcvvtli (Aug 17, 2011)

This was a fun read.

Ill give him my MLK 165's for $50 plus his car.


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## deesz (Feb 1, 2010)

Deathjunior said:


> No they are not made by Diamond Audio though they are made by diamonds parent company DEI who owns companies like Orion,Diamond, They also own RE audio, however some of these companies aren't run by DEI they are just funded and owned by them much like Dell and Alienware. Compared to literally any and every other component set best buy sells in store, the WCC sets sound quite bad... This is from personal experience.


There actually made by diamond audio. And they actually sound really good for the price. There the same as the d6 and I mean the same. They use to be made by Orion but not anymore.


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## Deathjunior (Aug 2, 2011)

I work at a best buy i sell the things, no diamond does not make them
Diamond Audio Parent Supplies West Coast Customs | ceoutlook.com (you will also find this link sourced at WCC's own blog)

However i did get DIG and DEI mixed up in my previous post. Best buy carries many products DIG produces such as fierce audio boxes and Cache wiring. But diamond themselves say they do not make them. For example the 6x9 convertible speakers on best-buys website and store. There is not 1 single diamond audio 6x9 with an aluminum cone. I'm not going to say their not similar cause they are but they are not the same the. I still stand by my statement


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## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

I will start by saying i agree on the amp first approach... even more since you already have one and then go from there. But not knowing the brand it could be garbage.

Now... for you tho... you would be better off just getting a couple sets of these and being done with it. Kenwood KFC-1654S 6-1/2" dual-cone car speakers — also fit 6-3/4" openings at Crutchfield.com anything you put in there you prolly gonna crank up and destroy like your oem ones without enough power and proper tuning. No sense in wasting money doing it. If you wanna do it right get any aftermarket set of coaxes and use your amp and tune it right and it will sound 100 brazillian times better than underpowering a nice set of the HU.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

that tight of a budget stick to ebay. I was the same with my first car. i didn't see the need for a sub. And i dd not have a budget for amps, not even one. therefore i made excuses saying that i wanted ONLY Clarity and not boom. only last have i started with amps and subs and higher end speakers and they make a huge difference from those best buy pioneers. i suggest either same up for higher end audio equipment or settle for lower quality best buy product.

CC


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

To be honest, I don't think he needs better speakers... yet  
Since he's changing his HU to an aftermarket Sony (bypassing the OEM HU and amp), I feel that the OP should buy a 4 channel amp and power his OEM front and rear speakers. 
That would be the first thing I would do... 

Most won't agree but reading up on the thread, I feel that the 60% distortion volume came from too much boost of the midbass and treble. 

I did exactly that in my friend's car - lended him an SRx4 that was sitting in my closet and he swears that I also changed his OEM speakers... when I obviously did not. 
Just set the highpass correctly on the bottom end and you're ready to go. 

My 0.02c

Kelvin 

PS: If you're asking for an advise and someone shares their knowledge with you, it is your right to agree or not. But your attitude and misinformation shown in this thread was not showing those people much respect either and I do understand their frustration... Just sayin'


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