# Review: Focal 165K vs Adire SF7



## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Oleg (Astral on this forum) and I did some swapping of mids last night in our two cars. He let me borrow his SF7s a few months ago and he wanted to compare them with his current setup consisting of Focal 165Ks. We came to roughly the same conclusions in each car so I'll just post comments about my car and let Oleg chime in with his comments after.

*Setup:*
2006 Mazdaspeed6 GT
Headunit: Bose Stock w/ 2v pre-outs
Processing: PPI DCX-730 (no EQ/TA configured)
Amps: DLS A5 and A8
Highs: LPG 26NFA, 40w RMS, 3KHz-20KHz (24db/octave)
Mids: Adire SF-7, 85w RMS, 50Hz-3KHz (24db/octave)
Lows: DLS OA12, 300w RMS, 20Hz-50Hz (24db/octave)

I have been running the SF7s for the past 2 months and they sound pretty good. They sound excellent compared to the CA18RNX speakers I had in before. My initial impressions after putting them in were that they had more punchy bass and smoother mids. To compare the SF7s with the Focals, we removed one speaker so we could do left right comparisons. We switched seats several times to get a feel for on-axis vs off-axis. The immediate impression with the 165Ks was that they had significantly more midrange detail and sheer volume from about 1KHz up. In fact it was almost too much when on-axis (listening from opposite side of car) and overbearing off-axis (listening from same side of car). The midrange helped to define heavy metal guitar riffs while the SF7 in comparison sounded dull and lifeless. 

If I were to choose a speaker based on on-axis performance I would personally choose the 165K but Oleg disagreed and said even on-axis the mids were too harsh for him. I think its something you could tweak with xover and eq settings whereas the SF7 is just missing that detail. 

When it comes to off-axis, the SF7s are far more manageable and don't seem to require any EQing, or at least I would be happy with them out-of-the-box bearing in mind that I am missing some detail. The 165Ks however really pierce your ears off axis and will require some EQ tweaking to dial them in for moderate listening levels. Maybe focal's passive EQs handle some of this...but I personally wouldn't run them active without an EQ.

So in conclusion, Oleg thinks the SF7s are all-around better for the heavy metal he listens to. He can turn it up with out having the midrange cut through. At the time I thought I disagreed with him but we decided to do a full swap for a few weeks so we could have time to mess with the drivers...after a day of listening, I am not as thrilled with the 165Ks as I was initially. They don't handle my jazz recordings very well at all and I can't seem to match them up right with my LPG tweeters. The tweeter's layed back style gets lost in the shuffle.

I really don't think either of these speakers are the end-all of 2-way nirvana. I wish I still had my old Eclipse (made by Vifa) mids to compare against these...those speakers never gave me any trouble...but then again my ear has improved over time.

So after a day, I cut 1KHz-up by 6db using a high-shelf band and A Q of 1 on the DCX. Then I cut the midrange by an additional 3db (since they were still over powering my tweets). Then I switched to a 3.7KHz 12db/octave crossover point. Not sure on the last setting but it sounded OK as I exited my car. The real test will be in the morning when I put some fresh ears on it.

Anyone else who has experience with these speakers please chime in with suggestions or comments. Tuning advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

I get the sense that there's a lot more going on that needs to be sorted out. A quick demo just swapping out woofers is challenging. I've swapped quite a few woofers, tweeters, and subs in and out of my car, a good deal of mixing and matching. I can dial in a set somewhat initially, but it generally takes several days of fiddling to get a decent final set. Even then, there is very little sense of the full ability of the driver. You really aren't given enough time to move x-over points around, get a feel for frequency response, output capabilities, and get enough time with the driver to put together a good EQ setting(generally done via pink noise myself, at least a good hour spread over several days). Even the change in phsycal shape modifies the TA point a little.

Anywho, thumbs up for a nice group session review. One can get raw characteristics pretty quick, but I'd like to see more quality time spent with the Focals, maybe let Astral have your Adires for a couple/few weeks and you his Focals. If I were to suggest anything, give it more time.

If you want to grab a pair, try a set of Mach 5 midwoofers. It seems you have a liking towards the softer response but also don't want a dull, lifeless sound. The Mach 5 does this mix quite well with a slightly soften detail but also crisp and open sound, plus it goes up to 4kHz making crossing with the LPG a breeze. For EQing, a 2-3dB low Q bump at 2kHz is all you need(flattens the response and brings the midrange forward). It has been one of my favorite midwoofers I've used, not necessarily the best anywhere but good all-around and enjoyable to listen to as well as work with when tuning.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Oh, I forgot to mention specifically that I've got the Focals in my car right now and Oleg has the SF7s. We're swapping for a little while...in fact, both speakers are his! He let me borrow the SF7s a while back when we were tuning my CA18s.

I plan to take the next few weeks to "work with" the focals. I try to stay away from relying on the RTA too much. It's good for dialing in midbass and subbass but I've never had any luck getting it to help midrange. I feel my ears are a much better tool, especially if I throw in acoustic music (jazz and classical).

Anyway, since both speakers are in fact Oleg's, those Mach 5s sound pretty appealing. I'll definitely look into them since I would love to get something that can play up to 4KHz. The CA18s were supposed to, and they did...but it was far to harsh for my listening material.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

Hmm, odd about the CA18RNX sounding harsh. There has to be something else going on as there really isn't anything specific in its design that would make it so. I generally like to do a pink noise test. I do it for two reasons: (1) I've come to enjoy EQing with it and (2) it can very quickly point out peaks and valleys in the frequency response and very quickly point you to problems. I generally like the graphic type of EQ. It's a little more quick and dirty. With the Parametric from the DCX-730, you'll have to manually move the EQ up the band trying a boost and cut at every point and see where it's needed. You're pretty much sitting there with a pencil and paper recording what you did and and building up a fix frequency response graph. Then you try to recreate that fix graph with the EQs. The pink noise is also very useful with x-over adjustment and attenuation. You can pretty quickly level balance with it and through EQing, it can point out obvious faults in x-over location and slope if the blending isn't well.


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## THASQGOTME (Jul 6, 2006)

How do you measure pink noise, and how do you EQ the peaks and valleys?

I am obviously new to EQ'ing and there has to be an art to it.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

pink noise is just static, basically equal intensity throughout the frequency spectrum and all frequencies playing at once. A flat response(ear flat) will sound equal throughout with no particular frequency overpowering the other and no frequency range missing/lacking either. This is the goal through EQing. As well, when initially setting up a pair of speakers, you can match levels between the woofer and tweeter using the same noise, simply matching intensity. If you need to EQ around the x-over point, it generally means you can work with the x-over point or slopes and fix the issue prior to adding EQ. With a HU or processor with seperate EQs, you can even work with individual drivers or one side at a time.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Yes yes, lets not threadjack here. There are plenty of threads about using an RTA and pink noise. I'm not opposed to it...I just find it easier to find issues by actually listening to music I am familiar with.

I will add that both of our cars have similar door panel structures. They both have a black hard plastic panel which acts as the inner door skin. I have more sound deadening than Oleg but other than that our setups are near identical.

I discussed in-depth the issues I had with the CA18RNX in another thread (search for CA18RNX in threads started by me to find it). The issue was more breakup/distortion than it was level setting. The RTA didn't pick up what both Oleg and I were hearing in the midrange. It is possible that the plastic door skin, even with copious amounts of deadener is part of the problem. But if I were to rate the CA18 as a 3/10 in midrange and the SF7 as an 7/10, I'd say the focal is probably a 5/10. It is definitely a driver I can work with to get to sound good...but I do have to work with it, unlike the SF7 which was pleasing to the ear out-of-the-box.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Part 3 of my search for midbass drivers is posted here:
Review: Hertz HKS 165 vs Focal 165K


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