# First few pics of New Equipment. Alpine/DIYMA/LPG/Adire



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

*First few pics of New Equipment. Alpine/DIYMA/LPG/Adire: UpDated!*










This is a few pictrues of my new equipment thats currently being installed into my Scion tC, just to name a few that would be.

Alpine IVA-W200 on top with optical/Ainet connection to PXA-H701.
2 Next 2.400's, 1 Next 4.400, only 1 amp shown.
Adire Extremis 6.4 on far outside.
DIYMA 2" Preproduction Dome midrange.
LPG 26na
DIYMA 12" Ref Not shown. Hopefully to have pictrues of it soon.

I hope to have more pictrues soon, of my actual install in progress, but heres a little play by play.

W200 is installed for a few weeks now, H701 is connected in the rear with optical/Ainet connections, power to 2/3 of my amps, Front stage amps gains are set with DMM, Tweet by Ear, Midrange set to 17v, Midbass 25v, subwoofer will be 44v after new wiring from dblock back are replaced and installed.

domes in kickpanels, FG sub enclosure, still trying to figure out how to hide my amps better, and more stealthy, right now there situated on my back seat across the rear. 3amps total.

Ran all wiring (going to be pulling the wiring from the Dblock back in the chain and replacing them with longer strands so that i can rightfully position my amps under the rear floor.

FG kickpanels aimed/glassed, bondoing today, almost about to start ensoliting/deadening/vinyling kickpanels to match interior, going to fabricate some type of better grill to protect the domes from feet.

FG sub enclosure mold is 1/4" thick, and cut to shape, will be buying mdf soon for front baffle/ring, extensive interior absorption will take place using deadener/acoustic foam, eggshell foam for a very dampened and sturdy enclosure, still looking for carpet to match interior for sub enclosure. Will order Vinyl and Carpet together.










Build pics will be updated as soon as i have them. The install is pretty far along right now, but what i have done can easily be shown, so pictures will show all.

Pics will be updated accordingly, these are the only 2 i have though so far, others will be soon though. Diyma Sub pics will be shown then as well.


----------



## edwelly (Mar 29, 2006)

I am anxious to hear how you think the DIYMAs sound. This should be a very nice install.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Got a few more pics i just took with my Webcam.......there not exactly install pictures, but its my Left kickpanel after bondo, almost ready for ensolite/vinyl. The rights bondo is still drying then will be sanded down like the left. Also as well as a few pictrues of my Diyma Ref 12, has yet to see power and enclosure is still in progress.

Also the Diyma 2" Dome is positioned in the kickpanel, firing across the interior at eachother for best absorption on the upper end from stray reflections and possible beaming. I tried more on axis mounting, but the upper end reflections messed up my image rather bad, so more offaxis was needed, this being my end results with aiming.


































































Finished or close to finished kickpanels, and sub enclosure mold pics to come soon.


----------



## lv_v (Aug 24, 2005)

Let us know how the W200/H701 combo works out. I plan on using the same combo and adding the N872A nav system.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5535

My review on my specific pieces. Will be adding much more in the next few weeks/month, as things come to a close and TONS of tuning happen.


----------



## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

Kicks look awesome!!!

-aaron


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Looking good


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Thanks for everyones comments, BTW Dang, they sound amazing down there, i was suprised how easily the domes give the impression of a dash image......completely effortless, and these things get loud too....i need to attenuate the top end of the mids down a little bit more though to get that non-fatiged listening experience. Tommorrow i am going to be finishing up my bondoing on my kickpanels, will update with pictrues of both sides, then vinyling will be done soon after i recieve them, followed by deadening and ensoliting on the rear side.

Sub enclosure mold will be shown soon as well, hopefully in car and out of car pictures.


----------



## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

Very nice kicks. & it looks like they are going to blend will with the car which is what you wanted.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

This is an update packed with pictures of some stuff i havn't yet shown and just some repeated but further along things.










First off i'm going to start with some general pics of the W200. As you can see the functional cover works perfectly after adjusting the player back a little in the brackets.



















Next up is the Front stage........I'm still lacking the vinyl over my kickpanels as well as an aesthetical grill cover for the Extremis 6.4's in my doors, this will be a press on type of grill to cover the perferated stock grill portion. Foam will also be injected around the back of the door panel and added baffle for wave absorption to keep all sound from behind the panel.

I'm VERY happy with how this front stage images, i can't wait to get the Diyma Ref 12 in the rear to really add to that upfront bass effect.....it sounds amazing.














































For the rear, i positioned my amps on the rear seat for the time being, untill i could figure out somewhere more stealthy to put them. The D-block was positioned on the Left wall. The H701 was positioned under the rear floor on the right, along with the Grounding block. Wooden piece will be carpeted black. Subwoofer will go on Right.
































































I hope this will suffice for now on my build up, hopefully i will be finished in the next week or 2 with all fabrication, and i can really present the car like i would like.

Hope you enjoyed for now.

I'm highly considereing the purchase of a larger sub amp, preforably [email protected] for a pair, one dimya 12 matching on the other side. But i'm also considering some type of way to build a platform on the floor of the rear, and build up a frame for the factory floor, and put my amps inside this frame, along with the processor, and spare, etc......Both sides will be matching hopefully, and all will be carpeted and intensely clean.


----------



## jay (Sep 12, 2005)

out of curiosity, how will you be securing the fiberglass sub enclosure?


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

I hope this is honestly enough to secure it, but i will be screwing to the rear of the car using factory luggage bolts to the chasis in only 1 point, other spots small lag bolts will be driven through the enclosure back and into the material on both sides of the rear, the black formed hardened carpet material. I hope this is enough to couple the enclosure to the car.

I may end up using some plumming straps and screwing them down through the material straight to the chasis, if the above route dosent work as well as planned.


----------



## trike (Sep 22, 2005)

because its molded to the shape of the cargo area it should stay in placy ok. throw some heavy velcro on the back of the enclosure and call it a day.


----------



## Finleyville (Jun 17, 2005)

trike said:


> because its molded to the shape of the cargo area it should stay in placy ok. throw some heavy velcro on the back of the enclosure and call it a day.


X2!

Great looking install so far Demon! Keep up the good work!


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Thanks alot Finley.

I'm highly considering the purchase of another Ref 12 for the rear, i think it would look that much better, and sound even more amazing


----------



## shinjohn (Feb 8, 2006)

Demon,
Nice work!!! Great progress on everything and looks like your install will be super clean when you are finished! Keep up the good work, and keep us posted too!


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Just a few update pics specifically targeting the sub enclosure build.
































































Thanks everyone again for your kind words, alot of work is going into my car, and i'm enjoying every moment of it. 

Right now i'm waiting for the resin applied to cure, i also used the last of my resin, so i need to go back to lowes and get another container, a layer or two or Extra Strength matting will be applied over the fleece for added strength and support, and to fill some minor spots that had holes in some spots the fleece met. Extensive mass loading to the inside of the enclosure will take place, with spray on deadener, a few layers of ensolite, and a layer of acoustical eggshell foam.

I've yet to cutt the speaker hole out, but i'm somewhat wondering if i may need to resin the inside of the back of the fleece, to make sure that its completely hardened and nonporus. Also would it be wise to go around the inside where the mold meets the fleece on the front and cault/resin the seam to make it air tight?


----------



## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

demon2091tb said:


> I've yet to cutt the speaker hole out, but i'm somewhat wondering if i may need to resin the inside of the back of the fleece, to make sure that its completely hardened and nonporus. Also would it be wise to go around the inside where the mold meets the fleece on the front and cault/resin the seam to make it air tight?


Looking great. I hope to be at this stage by the end of the week with my own 'glass box. 

I plan on using a Bondo milkshake to help seal up the inside where the ring meets the face and other assorted seams/pinholes throughout. Mix up a regular batch of resin and add some body filler to it so it's about the consistency of a milkshake. Add a few more drops of MEKP as well for it to deal with the added filler. Pour it in and swirl it around the whole enclosure. Airtight and rigid.


----------



## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

I like to lay the mat from the inside. You can lay the mat all around the seams and make a very strong box. Are you going to paint it or carpet?


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Umm i was planning on a carpet to match the rest of the rear. As far as sealing up the inside, i was just planning on resin or matting where i need it, as the box is rather small and any type of movement of the arm/paintbrush inside for applying resin and the like will most likely be pretty small as its looking, also the box gets rather narrow at both ends, so i had thought about just injecting a moderate amount of foam to seal up the ends, specifically in the bottom right corner of the last picture, there is a small area where the mold shows through the front, as i cut my seam a tad bit too long, and pulled it a little too hard. But should be rather easy to fix.

I used spray on 3M-90 for connections to the enclosure, if anyone wanted to know lol.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Well i just shelled out WAaaaaaaaaaay too much money over at PE and the A1 Foam and Fabrics. PE was a couple of different things, specifically eggshell foam for the subbox, as well as some polyfill/grill cloth/Cascade Quiet Kote/RS52(for home use and to swap grills), and a few other odds and ends........

Got all of my vinyl and carpet at http://www.a1foamandfabrics.com/site/index.cfm

Vinyl Choice was to match interior as best as possible.
This is a Toyota type Charcoal.










Carpet choice was the same.
This is a Multiple type Cinder.










Hopefully they will be close to a perfect match......Hopefully if the light shines right


----------



## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

Ive got a great idea for the amprack.

you can cut perfectly amp sized holes in some 1/4 inch hardboard and flushmount the amps. thatll hide all the wiring and make the amplifiers themselves look integrated.

maybe add some ID-style "bent MDF" to roundover the transition from amp-front to the back of the backseat, and carpet over the whole thing to match the trunk. beautissimo!


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Good plan Rabbit, i'm going to probobly do that when all is said and done. just gotta find something thinner and lighter than 3/4" mdf for the finish panel.

A few more pictrues of a few things i've been doing/waiting on, still waiting on vinyl and carpet to come in.

Subbox, glassed, cut and ready to be bondo'ed and acoustically treated.










PE delivery.........2lbs Polyfill, 3 layers of eggshell acoustic foam, 70"x1yd Grill cloth, RS52AN, 2 Cans of Cascade Quiet Kote.










Diyma 2 and RS52 dome midranges.










Grills swapped for cosmetic and protective reasons. 










The money Shot, notice the resemblance between the Diyma 2" w/RS52 Grill and the LPG 26na.............. They belong together 










Will update with vinyled kicks and more subbox treatment pics when i have them.


----------



## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

looking great man ...


----------



## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

Looking good. Can't wait to see it done. I don't envy you with the sanding. If you have access to a gun and compressor try out some Slick Sand. Just spray it on nice and heavy. Save a lot of sanding.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

I've been using a 120v hand sander, not sure what or who its by, but its ancient and was my dads back when he did alot of woodwork, works awesome. Only problem is applying the bondo, easy part is the sanding........

Glad you all like, earlier today i was redoing my wiring to the amps, giving me more slack on the back seats and such, as well as powering the subamp. Well tonight i turned the car on, and wam, no frontstage except for some little midbass.........didnt' mess with it long, but i think i may have messed up something in the HU, as far as xover points and such, or wired the 4.400 wrong, as the midbass and sub amp both are powering up, no lights at all from the 4.400, so hopefully its not dead 

EDIT, couple hrs later, i looked at my wiring decided the wiring was backwards for the 4.400, 12v was gnd, gnd was 12v, swapped them, nothing, looked at fuses, switched them out, perfect, i guess putting power to the 4.400 and having the 12v and gnd reversed blew the fuses, i replaced them, and now have power back for both tweets and midrange channels.

Thank god it wasn't a fried amp


----------



## xDeLiRiOuSx (Apr 26, 2005)

Oh crap! You switched the positive and negative =/ That's scary business. I hope that didn't internally damaged the amp.

Good luck with the rest of your install. Looks great.

David


----------



## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

thank god for the safety they must be using on that circuit.. prob a diode or diodes... suprised though after that long of a time it didnt smoke them though...


----------



## shinjohn (Feb 8, 2006)

Those drivers really do look nice together after the grill swap. I think your end result should be awesome, can't wait to see!


----------



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

so what is happening to those mids with the other grill....the ones that are not the diya versiuons....and when were those diymas for sell?


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Most likely will try the RS52/diyma grill as a home midrange, in a 3way tower. RS225 and some tweet.

They were preproduction drivers, only 4 pairs i beleive, and 1 modded pair with an extra magnet on the rear. Dunno if there ever going into production though, you'd have to ask dang.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Well guys time for an update.

Finally got my delivery from A1 Foam and Fabrics.........Charcoal Toyota vinyl, and black carpet. Will be carpeting the drivers side kickpanel, along with the subbox either tommorrow or saturday, given i hvae time.

Anyway got a few things done over the last few days.

First off while waiting on my materials to come in, i went ahead and coated the sub box insides with Cascade Quiet Kote VB-1S Pro (from PE), which is a visco-elastic rubber compound that is a spray on deadener.......Amazing results. I actually used a 1.5 cans......a little overkill but the enclosure is dead as hell!

I hate that i didn't take pictures of the rest that i did inside........but when i carpet the enclsoure i'll be taking internal pics to show the level of acoustic treatments i used. Over the Quiet Kote i lined the entire inside with Ensolite, then a layer of 1" acoustic eggshell foam (From PE). I had to give my DIYMA a nice home 

BTW yes i know the rear is dirty.......i had to get inside the car and lift it with my feet and screw it in to mount it lol.




























Next up is the Kickpanels........I didn't get a chance to do the Drivers side quite yet (i felt as though if i had to be upclose and personal to it then i wanted it to be the better of the 2. I did a few trial runs on bits and pieces of MDF that i cut earlier and it was rather simple and straight forward..........But actually working on the panel with the contours and such that i was working with (curves on all 3 axis), it gave me quite the time. This kickpanel alone gave me 3hrs worth of pushing and pulling and trying to manage the best i could..........Well heres the finished product. I'm pleased it came out as well as it did, but i'm somewhat dissapointed that it wasn't better (quite a few imperfections from ripples, as well as around the top left clasp, but the visible areas out from under the dash look pretty good)



















I need to give credit where credit is due..........you apolstery guys are awesome....vinyling is harder than it seems.....ALOT harder.

Again i can't stress how much i'm happy the kicks are turning out.......though i do wish a few spots on them were different. Hopefully the drivers side will be 150% better.

Will update again with drivers side kicks done, sub box done, and processor board carpeted. (not exactly sure how i'm going to finish off the midbasses in the doors yet)

Anyway not too much bashing on the horrid vinyling on the kicks please  

Again thanks for looking.


----------



## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

Titty ta tas 

-aaron


----------



## |Tch0rT| (May 7, 2005)

That kick panel looks good Demon! =D

Ryan


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

You really are doing a great job. Let us know how that diyma sub sounds in your setup.


----------



## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Very nice job on the kicks!

Can't wait to see the finished product...


----------



## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

Looks great. & I agree, vinyl can be a ***** to work with.


----------



## Relax (Apr 24, 2006)

Vinyl does suck! Try doing those sweet raised designs some people do:

Heres my last attempt:










But yours look damn good- what imperfections?


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

You people are too kind. BTW Relax nice raised rose....looks very nice. 

The imperfections i'm specifically talking about on the passengers side picture below.

3 in particular










-Top Left of the panel, its the whited out/greyed area which is something that helps hold an underdash panel, it slips into the area and is held in place there. I couldn't figure out how to go about doing this area as the contours of the panel as well as the odd angle/boxed area.

-Center of top, i had a spot where i got a little fold, only way i knew how to get rid of it was to cut it along the center of the fold and try to join the seem rather good...it worked decent.

-Last problem area was around the far left of the panel in the picture below......its a plastic hole on the panel that is used to hold in place the side of the panel that slips down over built in screws, it sinks down into the panel and then juts out, didn't know how to do this area either.

Anyway i finished up the other side today, specifically drivers side (same minor problem areas as the above, minus the first)......also got a few shots of the sub box internals, to show the level of acoustic treatments i used.










Unfortunantly it didn't turn out as good as the first......the back part of it got ALOT of ripples/wrinkles and not sure why.....i was pulling rather hard...mabey too hard on it. But i tried to get rid of the ripples by cutting along the ridge of it, and seaming them together. (i still need to figrue out how to fix those seams as best as i can....the white clothed backing shows through on the color material, sticks out too much.)

Anyway a few shots of the sub box internals......

Same picture as before, Cascade Quiet Kote......










Darker Grey is the layer of Ensolite, lighter grey is 1" eggshell foam, i only lined the flat areas as the material was slightly hard to work with (bending tight radius').










I got pretty far today with carpeting the sub enclosure, but the coloring isint exactly what i wanted, (not an exact match to the car carpet, the carpet i got is a little lighter, but still a decent match, but i've run over my budget quite a bit, so it'll have to do.) Also added in a speaker connection terminal for easy hookups.

Next update will be subbox carpet pics and processor board carpet pics i guess.

I'm still rather disappointed in how the kicks turned out....i was really hoping the vinyl would make them really stand out, but the problem areas are really bothering me


----------



## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

lol i totally jacked my vinyling job on my kicks too. don't worry i feel yah . 

besides that looking good bro! also look like you are surface mounting the diyma. how are you going to protect that beautiful sub?


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Still working on that one AlphaK, not entirely sure yet, but i rarely have anything in the rear, and when i do it will be covered by then 

I may end up actually trying to revinyl my kicks soon.....i'm not happy with the way they turned out at all........i know i can do better.....and i just need a few trys.......i just hope, and pray i don't loose any of my bondo/finish under the vinyl. That is......if theres no way to surface fix the areas.

(I have plenty of material for many tries........a full 2yds or so )

Does anyone have any pointers for going around those areas/tricksof the trade?


----------



## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

That vinyl you have does not look like it's stretchable. Where did you get it?


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

A1 foam and Fabrics, its a toyota oem color, it matches well.


----------



## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

Does it stretch in all 4 directions like a rubber band?


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Nope.


----------



## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

4-way stretchable makes a world of difference. or even 3-way works well with kickpanels. There is no way you can get stiff vinyl to contour with the shape of a kickpanel. Your almost done though. Just take your time & try it again. 

Btw, I love what you did with that sub box.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

I almost had it with the nonstretchable then.....Which is odd, would have been alot easier with some type of give, How much does the stretchable usually go per yrd, where can i buy it, and would it match that same color?? I'm heading off to work right now so thats why i asked, not enough time to sit and look.


----------



## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

I purchased mine from the local fabric store. Peftect match for my aplication. It was the premium vinyl. It was more expensive then the regular stuff, but not much. I think I paid $40 for more then enough.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

I live in a VERY small town, i highly doubt the local fabric store has anyhting close to that. Much less in a matching color.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Well all......Finally got the Kickpanels in the car, As well as the subbox carpeted and in the car......it sounds phenominal, a few resonant problems/peaks and dips here and there, but overall i think it sounds very nice (on some songs it does get rather peaky, just need to work them out)

The DIYMA 12 is an amazing sub, havnt had the least bit of problem with any clipping/popping noises yet, but i havn't ran it through THAT many testings so we'll see how it fairs in the end, over the next few week's, and un upcoming long drive. I used a little EQ on the 40-60region that i think may specifically be a fxn of the car, but overall i'm VERY pleased, and the musicality of the sub is very obvious.

Anyway on to some of the pics i took. Other side looks exacty the same. And thank god the places i had problems with on the panels don't even show the least bit, unless your specifically looking for them and your heads down in the footwells.














































Will update in a few days with more lisetning impressions.


----------



## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

That looks great!


----------



## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

Siccccccccccck.

I wish that dashmat didn't have that tint to it though =/

-aaron


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Yea it really could have been darker, kickpanels just a tad lighter and it would have lal blended well.

Thanks for the comments guys, wish you all could hear it, and give me some pointers on the tuning......


----------



## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

PROPS to the Demon.


----------



## |Tch0rT| (May 7, 2005)

Looking good Demon. Now you just need grills for the Extremis.

Ryan


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Thanks guys......Grills for Extremis/DIYMA Ref, already being thought about. How i'm going to do them.....not exactly sure


----------



## cadaver (Sep 17, 2006)

wow, thats some exemplary work. how do the mids sound off axis?


----------



## edwelly (Mar 29, 2006)

demon2091tb: I an VERY impressed. I think your kicks turned out great. 
For the grills, could you use something like these and cover them with grill cloth??? ---> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-422


----------



## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Indeed, excellent job on those kicks!


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Thanks guys, ALOT of work went into the car, and i just sat outside for awhile tuning.

Looks like my xover points thus far would be.

Tweet (LPG26na) = hp @ 6.3k 12db
Midrange (Diyma 2" Dome) = hp @ 400hz 24db - lp @ 1.8k 12db
Midbass (Extremis 6.4) = hp @ 63hz 24db - 200hz @ 12db
Sub (Diyma Ref 12") = lp @ 63hz 24db

Right now it sounds very good, in some cases better than my HT....other cases i'm getting a few peaks in the upper midrange/lower tweet that gets somewhat fatiguing. I'm not exactly sure where it is, but i have messed around with the lp xover points on the Diyma Dome and it seems as though if i move it up from 1.8k 12db up to even 2.5-3.5k some beaming starts occuring and it does get slightly painfull. Not sure if they are reflective effects or directly from the speaker itself.

I also need quite a bit more work on the sub/midbass integrating, but thus far, i'm thouroughly enjoying my DIYMA 12", with a little cutting in the lower octaves, 30-50hz (due to ~ .85cf), it blends in better, and gives ample lowend for even a non SQ setup (trust me).

My biggest concern right now though is the upper midrange though. Dang if you read this is there any FR measurements that you could PM me, because i'm specifically wondering if its alot like the RS52 in its response.....a rather stiff peak around 8k from material resonances, just to see if it may be what i'm guessing, and how i can get rid of it like i need. (happens alot in the upper vocals as well as in guitars/strings), but i'm just not exactly sure on the placement in its bandwidth (even messing with the EQ i couldn't pinpoint it).

Thanks again all for looking, and your kinds words are very appreciated.

Now to do that last bit of finish work on the doors/amps/etc. I'm still not happy with my amp placement.......any suggestions?


----------



## OGJordan (Sep 26, 2006)

As far as the amps go, why not place them opposite the sub (in the other quarter)? If they don't fit side by side, then put one in front of and slightly lower than the other two. If the do fit side by side, a nice panel could flush them in so that when you look back there is a flush sub on one side, flush amps on the other. But it doesn't look like you'd have room for all three over there.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Nope not enough room, IIRC each amp is 11x12x2, or around there.......the side is only around 20 inches +/- a few (measured it awhile ago, forgot).

But i don't have enough room for even 2 side by side, when closing the rear, as the hatch closes down, and it would cutt of the top corner of the first amp. I also thought if i got another sub then i would put it there, and match the sides. I had thuoght about recessing them under the floor some way....but i would need to build a frame under the rear floor, scrap the processing area and move everything around that way.......It can be done, but it would add alot of extra MDF weight, etc.


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Demon: your setup looks great and I'm glad you're enjoying everything. 

The upper midrange unfortunately is a very difficult area to tame in most vehicles. The FR measurements are identical to the rs52. If you're not hearing the breakup in-home, I don't think it's going to bother you in the car either. Without listening or measuring for myself, it's hard to say what the problem could be. It could be that the upper end isn't the issue, but that because of the small baffle width you're actually having a problem with not enough low end below 500-800hz... or really any number of things such as diffraction etc.

This is the fr of the Diyma 2" I had in Jun's truck (blue), the yellow line is the overall system response. Unfortunately I think this is after some serious eq'ing and may not be of much use to you. One thing to notice is the somewhat downward sloping trend from 200hz, and the huge gap between the mid and tweeter which yielded the flattest overall response.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Not that it may matter, but do you remember his placement/points/slope. 1.8 @ 12db seems best right now, and i did run it for a few minutes with no hp, Seemed rather full, but wasn't sure how it was going to react given the FS of the driver, so i bumped it back up a little to 400hz, 24db. How did you get the downward trend @ 200hz?

I'm going to be messing around alot more with it. But right now i think its a good starting point. I don't have any RTA testing software/hardware right now to do any exact testing, but overall i think it may be a good start with just the listening i've been doing.

I did think it might have some reflection issues and such off of my center console. But just for general info, what would a reflection/defraction sound like to help find the culprit.

No problems at all with the sub either, no popping that i can tell. Very nice sub, i like alot! 

BTW who exactly is Jun, the name dosent ring a bell for me, a handle/sn would probobly put the nail on the head though.

EDIT: Actually come to think of it, while setting phaseing/ individually with tweet/mid/midbass etc......i played each set by them selves to get a center, and i noticed when playing only the mid and tweet together that i wasn't having any of the above problems......Having my midbass set at 200-200 12db do you think that the upper end and comb filtering would be the culprit.......the additive effect of all 3 playing inherently the same small region might be the problem. I'll have to do more testing in a few minutes to see if this is the case.....but first i need to find a song that i definently have that problem in.

Other wise, the car sounds amazing from a tonal standpoint, cept for the problem i'm having.


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Heavy reflections and diffraction would just cause a rough, uneven response. Not very helpful I know 

I can't remember the exact install or settings used, except that we changed them alot and some weren't very intuitive like leaving the gap between the mid and tweet. Jun = Technobug btw. One especially annoying problem was that we didn't have the drivers sitting flush when tuning and the low end response was almost non-existant because of that.

In general don't feel too bad though. Without measuring equipment it can take me weeks of tuning a little each day to get to a point that I feel is ok, and months before I'd consider it good. And judging by your install you're probably going to be alot pickier than 99% of the people out there.

Also with the sub I didn't have any noise problems either, and so far have only heard from 4 people out of well over a hundred who considered it an issue. 2 people who were using a large vented box, another who wanted to use it in the home, and another who adjusted his gains and the noise went away. Things do tend to get blown out of proportion as with most forums people who are unsatisfied tend to be the ones posting more often and/or more vocally.


----------



## drocpsu (May 3, 2005)

demon2091tb said:


> Not that it may matter, but do you remember his placement/points/slope. 1.8 @ 12db seems best right now, and i did run it for a few minutes with no hp, Seemed rather full, but wasn't sure how it was going to react given the FS of the driver, so i bumped it back up a little to 400hz, 24db. How did you get the downward trend @ 200hz?
> 
> I'm going to be messing around alot more with it. But right now i think its a good starting point. I don't have any RTA testing software/hardware right now to do any exact testing, but overall i think it may be a good start with just the listening i've been doing.
> 
> ...


What's the volume of your sub enclosure? How did you calculate it considering all of the fill you were planning on using inside it??

Nice install, btw.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

I'm actually not exactly sure, it may be less or slightly more than i'm guessing. But i do know it sounds good. Thats really what matters.  I may in the next few days take it out and actually figure up the volume using packing peanuts, but its plenty big enough for the sub.

Sorry i don't have a difinitive answer, as i really had no way of truely calculating it up. Water and bag would have been really messy, and i really don't have enough packing peanuts right now to really know. Any other ways of figuing this up?

Thanks for the nice comment. I'm glad its turned out as nice as it has....but still not where i really want it, but only time will tell for that


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Also would like to mention today with ALOT more time listening, the midrange peaks are working there ways out with my tuning.

Midbass and sub xover points are basically the same.....rather good integration.......

Midrange was bumped up to a good 3.6k, 30db slope, and tweet at 6.3k, 24db slope, and with a few cutts on the EQ betweetn 2-5k its working itself out nicely. Alot more tuning needs to be done, but for a few days worth of tuning by ear, i think its coming together nicely, still a tad in your face in the upper midrange, but that just might be the extra detail i'm not particurly used to yet.

I listened to quite a bit of metal today, and this sub has no problems keeping up and giving me the low end punch and double kicks i crave, or mabey its the midbasses doing it.....i do know that my mirrors are going freaking crazy.....  I can't stress enough how happy i am with the midbass/sub performance. I'm happy with the detail and resolution of the midrange and tweet, i just need to get onto a RTA to really work out the fine tuning.........

Any suggestions on Cheap, and i mean CHEAP RTA's or software that will give me FR measurements and RTA measurements......Both to address phasing as well as FR peaks and dips, just to flatten it all out. I used a cd of burned tones, but i only have up to 1khz in 100 and 5hz increments, my problems lie above 1khz, more into the 2-4k range.

I think it may be more of a fxn of comb filtering and over lapping of frequencies more than reflective. But thats an untrained ear......


----------



## sqkev (Mar 7, 2005)

Do you have a reference set up to compare your car's system to?
If you want to tune by ears, you have to somewhat train them (the ears) with good reference materials. 

I can't recall if I read this, but have you time align all the speakers yet??


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

I'm going for a 2seat car so i'm not trying to use much T/A as far as side bias. The only T/A that i'm trying to use is really just to align all of my drivers from a vertical standpoint. Delay the midbasses just a tad to line them up with my midranges, the slightly delay the tweets to pull them back a few inches to the depth of the midranges. When i was going about mocking my midranges it sounded very nice, just need to get them back to the same point i had them.

I remember awhile ago Werewolf said doing this was ok, in some cases very good, which i beleive would be my situation. But i just need to mess around a little more with them to get them where i need. (Over the last few days of tuning its improved considerably.

BTW hopefully soon to be working on a reference setup, not exactly sure what i'll be doing but i already have 1/3 of the drivers needed for Zaph's TMM 2.5way Waveguide, which i beleieve would be a good reference setup, correct me if i'm wrong, it has a very high sensitivity ~ 105-110db, and with the perfectionist xover a very flat response, i just wonder really if the CA18 have enough midrange detail to be considered reference.

Right now i'm simply using a CA18/LPG26nafm 2way (madisound xover, yea i know), tempest on the bottom end. I'm somewhat looking for something i can build that is already designed that i can easily build with stuff i have sitting around, if not a few added pieces, i just have no passive design experience, so something like Zaph's designs would be a great thing. Just not exactly sure if they would be considered reference or not.

Any DIY designs with a high level of detail would be ideal though i'd think.

Right now i have the following drivers sitting around that i had bought specifically for tower design in pairs:

Dayton RS225-s
CSS WR125
Dayton RS52
B&G Neo3
LPG 26nafm

a 2nd Tempest as well sitting around.

I had either bought them because they were on sale + the thought of using them in designs, but never learned how to design a passive as i have no measuring equipment for correct t/s params, or i couldn't find designs that incorporated the respective drivers.......

I had origionally decided on RS225/WR125/LPG 26 for a 3way reference setup, but never did because of the passive issue. But i think the RS52 could easily replace the WR125.......with even more midrange detail.

If i had help designing them i'd definently be on my way, but havn't seen any designs i could use, i feel as though i'm at a split in the road as far as getting towers done.......i have all supplies ready minus xover parts, just need a direction to head, as aesthetically and sonically there both of equal importance to me, which is why i'm slightly skiddish on using the rs52 as they don't exactly blend well aesthtically with the RS225's, the wr125's do look sexy though with the rs225's and LPG's i have......so its still being considered....Any ideas?


----------



## sqkev (Mar 7, 2005)

I'm sure this has been said, I think that your system has the potential to sound well if you can tune it well. 

Sitting from either side, you sure will have a bias. It's almost impossible to have a imaging from both sides of the car. 
I think that once you dial in the TA from 1 spot, the sound will be at least more coherent for you. 

Gluck with the tuning though, it'd be hard to be spot on without some tools. But I think you'll come to a setting that you'll like . Might take some time and patience though.


----------



## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

^ Ya I gotta agree here. Screw your passengers, it's worth it 

-aaron


----------



## TFM (Oct 10, 2006)

Demon... I know I'm a little late here...but just wanted to say I really like the install. Great job. Sub enclosure looks awesome.

You had asked in an earlier post about an idea for helping the kick panel appearance where the cuts were made. I've used a good ol' Sharpie in the past to dye the white areas where the cuts were made. I think it would work great in your situation where the kicks aren't that visible anyway. 

Also, for the amp rack cover, someone mentioned using hardboard. I think you mistook this as MDF. Hardboard is much thinner and lighter but plenty rigid enough. It's that dark brown stuff the bottom of some furniture drawers are made from. It's like pegboard without the holes. You can get it at Home Depot in various thicknesses/sizes and it's really cheap and easy to work with.

Once again, great looking install!


----------



## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

demon2091tb said:


> Now to do that last bit of finish work on the doors/amps/etc. I'm still not happy with my amp placement.......any suggestions?


are you willing to do some fab work or just another place for your amps? if possible maybe build a wall and either have it recessed into the wall or have them stick out on the wall.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Thanks TFM, i really didn't realize that the origional poster of the hardboard mentioned using that material, and i figured they had been referring to 3/4" MDF, the only type of wood that i can get unless i custom request it, as soon as i get back from some college scouting (trying to get back into school for a design degree/art degree), then i am going to be finishing up my doors/amp rack cover/processor board. The hardboard is around a 1/4" thick if i remember and i hope that its fairly cheap, as i htink a quick few cuts to build a enclosure to house the amps/show heatsinks would look alot better than simply showing all the wiring going in and out of the triplet of amps i have.........then again i've considered completely burrying the amps under my false floor, adding some fans for suction/blowing, and really giving myself plenty of room for another amp for another diyma in the future. I'll look for the hardboard and see if it won't work for what i'm considering. In some way's i'd almost rather rebuild and rewire my entire amp section just for the amp seclusion, but its alot of work and patience that i might or might not have time for, either way i think it would look really nice but thats only granted if i have the time for it, and the wood skills to cut the panels like id wish.

BTW i really appreciate the comments, i'm really glad everyone likes it. Its one thing to have your parents/close friends say it looks nice, but to have people that you really don't know except from forums say its nice, it means alot, and i mean ALOT. too many hrs have gone into this install to not have it accepted by the public, but i really appreciate it, now i only need some SQ fiends to listen to it to see how it stacks up to some nice SQ setups.......Where are all the Carolina SQ entusiasts/competitors when you need them......... 

Thanks again.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

alphakenny1 said:


> are you willing to do some fab work or just another place for your amps? if possible maybe build a wall and either have it recessed into the wall or have them stick out on the wall.


If i build a wall, it will need to be parallel to the adjactent DIYMA, or it won't happen, i'm considering under the rear floor, in a custom build frame, to allow for a 2nd diyma........depending if i can fit a processor, d-block, ground-block, and 4amps. , i think i can do it, but it needs to be creative, as i will have 4 amps 12x11x2 to fit.......sounds like fun, but alot of added weight and time. might pay off it i can pull it off though. But i'd need to replace the back seat panel cover if i do, as the holes i cutt for amps/speaker wiring its slightly a disturbance to the stealthyness of things. (you can't even see anything unless theres daylight in the kicks, and only if you look rather close.


----------



## drocpsu (May 3, 2005)

you could always try to pull off the behind-the-rear-side-panel amp install like Matt did in his girlfriend's tC. That looks like an excellent solution if you can do it.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

After seeing his, i'm highly considering it, but its the close to as extreme a route as i'd take. Slightly more apt to just put them under the rear floor like i was thinking, as i have no metal fab skills, materials, and the heatsinks get slightly warm as is now, i'd think they'd get quite a bit warmer being restricted as they would be.


----------



## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

Hi, we have very similar drivers setup. I'm using ca18s, RS52, lpg26 and the 701 processor.

I'm still experimenting with xover points but they are a bit different of what you post. It's interesting sharing different experiencies with similar setups.

The midbasses are at the doors, domes in kicks and tw in A pillars.

Xover: 
Midbass 71/24 to 220/12
Domes 400/18 to 5k/12
lpgs 4,5/18

Note: I always try to set the crossover point without looking at the screen, just by ear. 

PEQ is used in the front channel, -3 or 4 at 4K, 0.5Q.

I like some overlap beetwen the lpgs and the domes as they are a far from each other. The overlap creates better integration between them.

The most critical xover point in my car is the midbass LP. The Domes HP is not so important 400-600 is ok. Other point to keep an eye on is the TW HP.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Thanks for the heads up Hernan, on a long drive today i was messing with my points and they seem to be rather indicative of yours......

Xover:
Midbass 63/24 to 220/12
Domes 315/18 to 5.3k/30db
lpgs 8k/30db

Probobly same amount of Eq cutts you have at the same spot but i did them on the geq.

ALOT of work to be done though.....I listen to ALOT of different types of music, and so far i havn't found any concrete points that work for everything yet, which is my goal.


----------



## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Hey Demon,

Do you think the peak with the mid is due to the chamber? Would deadening the rear chamber with some clay or mat help? 

I am having a similar issue with my RS52's.


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

I think i figured out that, up to 6.3k-7.1k 30db with a almost 1/2 octave higher for the tweet also 30db works well getting that peak out, its not due to the rear of it, its due to the first audible breakup on the dome material, along with the tweet interferrence/overlap if any it makes the peak rather strong and harsh, right now, 6.3k on mids, 4.5k on tweets both 30db, gives some upper midrange overlap as well as a 3-4db .5Q dip on my PEQ around 4k, makes it very easy to listen to and no bad brakeup or peak.......

Its due to the material i really think.


----------



## 03blueSI (Feb 5, 2006)

I like what I see. Just out of curiosity, how big is that mid's flange? Also, how do you like the extremis for a pure midbass driver? I am still trying to debate if I want to do the work to get my old 8" midbasses in the doors or if I will go with the Extremis or the AA midbass. I just have to save the money to get the equipment I want and get it installed.


----------



## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Demon I have a free RTA program I downloaded somewhere. It's called RAE 2.0 and the other part of it is called RAL 2.0 and you need a sound card in your computer with a mic input. I've never set it up but I ran through it and it seems very useful with lots of festures. Theres also MAc The Scope off download.com


----------



## mitchyz250f (May 14, 2005)

Demon,
I have read this thread many times and everytime I learn something new. Great job.

Installation: Great installation. Especially the sub enclousure. With your permision I will copy it.

Tuning: Are you saying that you overlapped the mid and tweet and then eq'd the peak out for better intrgration. Is this commonly done?


----------



## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Mitch as far as i know its commonly done when an overlap is preferred, but then EQ'd out like you mentioned. As i continue to tweak it and try to improve it over time i've noticed that i'm enjoying a 1.8 24db, and 8.3k 18db slopes. Not sure if this is my final standing on it, it seems like it changes every few days ever so little bit.


----------



## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

i stumbled upon this. i also have a scion tc. this setup is sweet, i must say. 

nice job man.


----------



## TheArcticWhite (May 28, 2007)

Demon,
you used to have CA18rnx's in those doors correct? How difficult was it to get them to fit and what did you use to seal up the big spaces in the door?
Great looking sub enclosure btw...how long did it take you?


----------

