# These 110db eff' figures



## [email protected] (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi ya,

New on here, but not to horns. Although I have had a long time out of the game, but got to ask:

There are lots of threads on here about matching midbass to horns, and suggestions that you need to match the 108-110 db efficiency of horns, but are they really?

What I mean is that every time I set up a car with horns I find myself cutting 1.2-6k (ish) region by around 6db before I've started. So IME you're looking at more like 102-104db eff. Sure, that's still pretty high, but not quite so hard to get up to.

Would also be interested to know what sort of loading the underdash (if kick mounted midbass) gives? It's not like they're playing into 1/2 space as they're measured in the factory.... might get the 3055 out and have a measure

Any thoughts?

Kindest,

Matt


----------



## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

You will never get a 6.5 or 8" midbass anywhere near the sensitivity of a compression driver and horn. Even a 10" is still only 96 dB if doing midbass duty and not midrange.

Idea is having drivers with similar dynamics/characteristics it will be easier to blend them together without things sticking out like a sore thumb.

So a low Q high efficiency midbass will do much better than a high Q low efficiency midbass when mating with a HLCD.

Eric


----------



## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Eric Stevens said:


> You will never get a 6.5 or 8" midbass anywhere near the sensitivity of a compression driver and horn. Even a 10" is still only 96 dB if doing midbass duty and not midrange.
> 
> Idea is having drivers with similar dynamics/characteristics it will be easier to blend them together without things sticking out like a sore thumb.
> 
> ...


I'd like to know why is that? Rising response from midbass to midrange? 

Kelvin


----------



## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Not all high efficiency drivers have a rising response. 

Its about the same dynamic character, and a high efficiency low Q driver sounds more dynamic.

Eric


----------



## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Eric Stevens said:


> Not all high efficiency drivers have a rising response.
> 
> Its about the same dynamic character, and a high efficiency low Q driver sounds more dynamic.
> 
> Eric


Noted, thanks  

Kelvin


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Hey Matt! It's winslow from TA.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 19, 2012)

Hey Jason, how you doing? Good I hope? Is there anything left of that car of yours is it just an engine, wheels and bondo


----------



## fenis (Apr 12, 2008)

Eric Stevens said:


> Not all high efficiency drivers have a rising response.
> 
> Its about the same dynamic character, and a high efficiency low Q driver sounds more dynamic.
> 
> Eric


Most people like to tune their system's freq response to have a rising midbass to hand over to the sub (eg. Andy w's recommended curve of +9db 20-60hz then smooth transition back to 0db by 160hz). So by using a low q high efficiency midbass you either have to boost the midbass substantially and/or cut the lower midrange or have a system with very thin sounding bass. 

This is why I went with the Faital Pro 10FE200 which has a qts of 0.70, fs of 55hz and still 96db 1w/1m. Out of all the 10inch mids I was looking at the faital had the best midbass sensitivity (still about 94db 1w/1m at 80hz). 

So to the people using low q pro audio mids, how do you tune your subbass/midbass to still sound pleasing and punchy? Also what are some examples of low q high efficiency drivers that DON'T have a rising midrange response?


----------



## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

fenis said:


> Most people like to tune their system's freq response to have a rising midbass to hand over to the sub (eg. Andy w's recommended curve of +9db 20-60hz then smooth transition back to 0db by 160hz). So by using a low q high efficiency midbass you either have to boost the midbass substantially and/or cut the lower midrange or have a system with very thin sounding bass.
> 
> This is why I went with the Faital Pro 10FE200 which has a qts of 0.70, fs of 55hz and still 96db 1w/1m. Out of all the 10inch mids I was looking at the faital had the best midbass sensitivity (still about 94db 1w/1m at 80hz).
> 
> So to the people using low q pro audio mids, how do you tune your subbass/midbass to still sound pleasing and punchy? Also what are some examples of low q high efficiency drivers that DON'T have a rising midrange response?


I have never experienced thin midbass because I was using a low Q high sensitivity midbass. I usually find myself attenuating at those frequencies when tuning.

I think a higher Q driver would be too thick sounding.

You can't make observations such as you outline based upon predicted response using a simple box program and even using leap 5 with all boundary conditions included it will not be all that accurate.

Eric


----------



## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

Eric Stevens said:


> I have never experienced thin midbass because I was using a low Q high sensitivity midbass. I usually find myself attenuating at those frequencies when tuning.
> 
> I think a higher Q driver would be too thick sounding.
> 
> ...


Gotta agree with this. What part of the midbass do you think you'd have to boost? Actual midbass is 80hz and up. Granted a low Q midbass might need some boost if you plan on running it down to 60hz, but at anything above 80hz for sure, I always end up having to cut my midbass by 4-6db when using pro audio drivers. Generally the 125 and 160 bands get a cut and then usually at least one more band between there and 400hz gets a smaller one.


----------



## fenis (Apr 12, 2008)

T3mpest said:


> Gotta agree with this. What part of the midbass do you think you'd have to boost? Actual midbass is 80hz and up. Granted a low Q midbass might need some boost if you plan on running it down to 60hz, but at anything above 80hz for sure, I always end up having to cut my midbass by 4-6db when using pro audio drivers. Generally the 125 and 160 bands get a cut and then usually at least one more band between there and 400hz gets a smaller one.


As I'm using a very low distortion 18inch sub I like to HP my midbass at 100hz. Perhaps I need to rta my mids as maybe you guys are right that my 100-160hz range is running too hot. I'll post some measurements soon.

I would love to try a low q midbass with higher sensitivity (98-100db) such as this 18sound but the rising response might be getting too steep. 4mm xmax is enough for me as I will HP them at 100-120hz: 10NMBA520 - High Output MB Neodymium Driver


----------

