# Audison vs. Zapco



## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Looking for feedback on a couple of amps i'm thinking of getting.The Audison LRX line (6.9) and the Zapco Digital Reference line(650.6) or any other ones in their respective lines. If anybody has heard either of them or has an opinion on them it would be greatly appreciated because where i am they are "new" in town and not much feedback except from salesman.I am going to take out my passives and run these in an active 3-way front end with MB Quart Q series  (i know not DIY but it's all i got right now)6.5"w, 5.25"m,1"t.I will also except any other recommendations as i have been out of the game for a while and a lot of the brands have changed and some not for the better.Love this site, it is fantastic.Cheers! My current amps are Soundstream Reference 500,300,200 and Class A6.0


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## thadman (Mar 1, 2006)

Id recommend that you go with a value amp (not necessarily cheap, but inexpensive and nice) and sell your MB Quarts and buy some higher quality drivers, such as Peerless Exclusives.

The sonic results will be a lot more rewarding


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

thadman said:


> Id recommend that you go with a value amp (not necessarily cheap, but inexpensive and nice) and sell your MB Quarts and buy some higher quality drivers, such as Peerless Exclusives.
> 
> The sonic results will be a lot more rewarding


 Thanks for the help.Where would i look to check out these Peerless drivers and are they a matched W/M/T ?


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

Haven't tried the new LRxes yet, but the old one´s where like the Genesis Profile. You´re better off saving up to the real thing. (VRx and Series 3 respecivly).

But as always, the speakers stands for 90% of the coloration of the sound. First get a set thay you really like. Then spend whatevers left on the best amp you can get.


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## thadman (Mar 1, 2006)

madisound.com  

-or- 

timbreaudioonline.com, I havent personally dealt with the person who owns it but it looks like a nice site and he frequents the forums.

The Peerless HDS 1" tweeter + Peerless Exclusive 7" (8" if you can fit the driver, it offers the same extremely low distortion but with more output)

Awesome combo, IMO


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

How are the Morels Wr 4,6,8's listed in the For Sale section compared to the Peerless Exclusives?


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Like i said in the first thread it's been a while for me.Waaay back when, i thought the MBQ Q series were pretty high end(my QM25's retailed for 500) are these other makes,the Peerless,Seas,Scanspeak etc that much better?I left the car audio scene to concentrate on my home audio system.My home speakers are Sonus Faber Cremonas and they sound sweeet!I guess i am a little behind the times getting back in this "game"


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## thadman (Mar 1, 2006)

You can purchase the top of the line units that Scan Speak offers, which are used in the best Sonus Faber loudspeakers  

Theyre quite expensive though, at over $200 a pop for a midrange vs $70 for the Peerless.

The Peerless are extremely nice drivers and have similar levels of distortion, you can check out measurements at zaphaudio.com

These drivers will murder your MB Quarts


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Thad;so you're saying something like a 7"(#830883)Exclusive woofer,a HDS 1"(#810921)Tweeter and what for a mid?  A (#821615) 4" or a 5.25" (#830887)?These are madisound numbers.this would be a good entry level into the DIY genre and these will kick my Quarts to the curb!!  Thanks again


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> Thad;so you're saying something like a 7"(#830883)Exclusive woofer,a HDS 1"(#810921)Tweeter and what for a mid?  A (#821615) 4" or a 5.25" (#830887)?These are madisound numbers.this would be a good entry level into the DIY genre and these will kick my Quarts to the curb!!  Thanks again


When I was checking the frequency response graph and initially planning on going midbass, mid, tweet, I noticed that the areas where the smaller Exclusive woofers play is already covered by the 7 (or 8) and the HDS.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

I completely disagree!! The Q's are very capable drivers when installed correctly. And your amps are more than adequate for achieving excellent sonic results. More $$ in amps....aside from the need for the processing...is a waste of money IMO. 

What is your source unit??


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## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

One thing I have to say about that the DC Reference amp is the built in equalizer w/ capability to adjust them w/ a laptop. Separate L/R gains, ability to bandpass, crossover slopes from 6bB-24dB per octave, Time delay and as mentioned before 10 bands of equalization per channel make these amps very flexible. And of course it is a Zapco amp, makers of some very good amps for a number of years.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

My head unit is an Alpine CDA-7995,i also have on hand an older Denon 20bit DCC-9770 and an Eclipse 8445(bought for my truck but not used yet).I was going to do this with the Eclipse: Front(Y-cable split) HP @200hz to a Tweeter amp [email protected] and a midrange amp [email protected] [email protected] to a Woofer amp [email protected] 200.Sub from 63hz down.I would have to time align the T/M together as they see the same signal but they are in kick panel pods so they are close together.I would TA the woofer as the rear and the sub as the sub  Does this sound do-able and will it sound better than the passive 3-way that i am currently using?So many questions so little brain matter left


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## thadman (Mar 1, 2006)

I never said his speakers werent nice, but they surely arent on the same level as the best Scan Speak has to offer or we would all be running them ourselves


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## Oak244 (Apr 7, 2006)

Well here is my 2 cents... I had an old Rockford Fosgate Punch 100 DSM which was a 50 watt X 2 amp. I also had a US Amps USA-50 which was also a 50 X 2 amp. and Last I had a Zapco Reference 200.2 which was also a 50 Watt X 2. I hooked each one up one after another to my CDT Eurosport 5.25 set off a Eclipse CD-8053. I listened to the same songs and many different kinds and this is what I thought....

The Rockford Fosgate Punch 100 DSM was junk! It used to be king, and because of its name, I sold it for the most out of all these amps. But compared to the others, it was very weak, and the sound was pretty dull.

The US Amps USA-50 was very strong for its size. Much stronger then the RF amp. This amp had tight midbass, and great high end. But while midbass was tight, its made the sound of my speakers bright and kind of cold. Nothing terrible, in fact many probably would like the sound.

Last I put in the Zapco Ref 200.2 to solve the US Amps/Zapco fight for my self. This amp was another strong amp. Comparable to the US Amp, and much better then the RF amp. With this amp I would say my system sounded very warm. Midbass was very stong, and rich, but it litterally sounded like someone had their hand over my tweeters in comparison to the US Amp. In the end I found it easier to live with the US Amp as the Zapco made my system sound sluggish to me. I like a warm system, but to me its was almost too warm. At the same time, due to the amps warm sound, I understood why Zapco is popular.

I asked around still not totally happy with any of those. I never tried Audison, but I was told their amp can be lacking in the midbass region which is why I never tried them. So in the end I spent a little more money, and got the Arc Audio XXK series amps. This solved it for me. Midbass was warm but not sluggish like the Zapco, and the highs were great like the US Amps. I started fair testing a Arc Audio 2050XXK to keep with the 50 Watts X 2. It was the winner for sure, and now all my amps are XXK amps. 

Of course some may disagree, but this what my ears heard and my opinion.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

I was bored, so here is the Exclusive 8" and HDS graphs jammed together at 2kHz.


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## Oak244 (Apr 7, 2006)

I hope thats good cause I am doing that exact setup in my car! lol


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

evan; thanks for the graph but i am definitely duh!! when it come sto that.To me it looks pretty flat from like a 100 to 1000.That's a good thing right??


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## Oak244 (Apr 7, 2006)

Yeah I like the graph. Seems to me the 8" does not need to be aimed well to be fairly flat. I am doing a custom enclosure for my 8" so I can hit the 30 degree at least. On the other hand the tweeter is a lot more sensitive. I will have to do the best job I can to make it under 30 degrees if possible. What I don't want to happen is the Driver seat sound awesome and the passengers seat sound terrible. So not sure how to properly aim my speakers yet.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Oak244 said:


> I never tried Audison, but I was told their amp can be lacking in the midbass region which is why I never tried them.


By whom may I ask??  

I value your opinion and am not discounting your experience, but that right there is just....well....I'll keep my comments to myself.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Bsquad; i did answer your headunit query and was wondering what you thought of my projected scheme?Thanks


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Oak244 said:


> Yeah I like the graph. Seems to me the 8" does not need to be aimed well to be fairly flat. I am doing a custom enclosure for my 8" so I can hit the 30 degree at least. On the other hand the tweeter is a lot more sensitive. I will have to do the best job I can to make it under 30 degrees if possible. What I don't want to happen is the Driver seat sound awesome and the passengers seat sound terrible. So not sure how to properly aim my speakers yet.


I think I'd try the tweets in the A pillars, a couple of inches off the dash, and facing each other. But yeah... it will definitely take some listening and tweaking. Seems like a lot of people have had some good luck with that style of tweet install.


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## Oak244 (Apr 7, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> By whom may I ask??
> 
> I value your opinion and am not discounting your experience, but that right there is just....well....I'll keep my comments to myself.


lol Yeah as far as Audison, I never tried them so can not give you my ture opinion. Its just what I was told on CarAudio.com a long time ago when I was trying to choose between US Amps, Zapco, and Audison. Like I said, in the end, I did not do any of them and settled happily with Arc Audio.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Sorry about the thread hijack Nass027.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

That's cool evan!Could you tell me exactly what the graph says though??


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## thadman (Mar 1, 2006)

The 8 can be placed in the door firing towards your legs, because its off-axis response is nearly flat even at 60*.

The tweeters will want to be placed more or less on axis if you want super high frequency content


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Oak244 said:


> Its just what I was told on CarAudio.com a long time ago when I was trying to choose between US Amps, Zapco, and Audison.


Friends don't let friends go to ca.com.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> Bsquad; i did answer your headunit query and was wondering what you thought of my projected scheme?Thanks


Looks good bro. Sound's like you got the T/A issue taken care of.

Just add more of my $.02....don't worry about those graphs. I'm not an expert installer by any stretch of the imagination, but doesn't the FR of the driver change once it's installed in a car?? I mean you have reflection, comb filtering, cabin gain, etc, etc, etc. Hell it's 8* F here and my system sounds like ****...and I know my ears haven't changed.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> That's cool evan!Could you tell me exactly what the graph says though??





thadman said:


> The 8 can be placed in the door firing towards your legs, because its off-axis response is nearly flat even at 60*.
> The tweeters will want to be placed more or less on axis if you want super high frequency content


Yeah, what he said. 

I'm not as learned as a lot of guys on this forum are, but I'll share what I get out of that graph. Everybody's welcome to chime in with corrections if they're needed.

Basically, that graph is designed to show you how well the speakers can produce certain frequencies under certain conditions. The human ear can hear from 20Hz to 20kHz so that's where that graph starts and ends. You can see that the 8" is less able to produce sound below 60hz, and that's why you need a sub to complete the range.

Do you understand the difference between the blue, red, and green lines on the graph?



B-Squad said:


> Just add more of my $.02....don't worry about those graphs. I'm not an expert installer by any stretch of the imagination, but doesn't the FR of the driver change once it's installed in a car?? I mean you have reflection, comb filtering, cabin gain, etc, etc, etc. Hell it's 8* F here and my system sounds like ****...and I know my ears haven't changed.


I totally agree, except often this type of information is the only thing we have to help us decided what it is we want to buy. It doesn't hurt to be able to interpret the information. ...but your right, it all needs to be taken with a grain of salt.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Yes i believe so.The further off axis you go the softer or lower in volume the tweeter in this case becomes and it is the upper highs that fade away.So you would loose that so-called sparkle etc.Am i right?


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> Yes i believe so.The further off axis you go the softer or lower in volume the tweeter in this case becomes and it is the upper highs that fade away.So you would loose that so-called sparkle etc.Am i right?


That's exactly what I take from it.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> Yes i believe so.The further off axis you go the softer or lower in volume the tweeter in this case becomes and it is the upper highs that fade away.So you would loose that so-called sparkle etc.Am i right?


My driver's side tweeter is nearly 90* off axis and I have to flatten the response from 12.5kHz up at varying levels, yet no sparkle is lost as far as I'm concerned. And the tweeters are attenuated -6 db from the midranges.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

For comparison, here is the Dayton Reference 8" and the DC28F tweeter (shaded yellow). Notice that there is no information for 60* off axis.








http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=275-075
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-376

Also, keep in mind that no two companies probably test their speakers in exactly the same way.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

Oak244 said:


> Well here is my 2 cents... I had an old Rockford Fosgate Punch 100 DSM which was a 50 watt X 2 amp. I also had a US Amps USA-50 which was also a 50 X 2 amp. and Last I had a Zapco Reference 200.2 which was also a 50 Watt X 2. I hooked each one up one after another to my CDT Eurosport 5.25 set off a Eclipse CD-8053. I listened to the same songs and many different kinds and this is what I thought....
> 
> The Rockford Fosgate Punch 100 DSM was junk! It used to be king, and because of its name, I sold it for the most out of all these amps. But compared to the others, it was very weak, and the sound was pretty dull.
> 
> ...


Your ears are indeed golden .... They hear just like mine do , and Arc amps do indeed rule


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## Oak244 (Apr 7, 2006)

AVI said:


> Your ears are indeed golden .... They hear just like mine do , and Arc amps do indeed rule



Yeah they are. I took me years of fighting with people about how I can hear differences in equipment, before I realized that even though we are made of the same parts, ie eyes, ears, legs, ect... we do not experience life the exact same way, including our ears. Some hear differences, and some dont. Keep in mind, the better built things are, the harder it is to hear differences.

But as a measure of how golden my ears are, I heard a slight difference in my Home stereo just by adding a 0 awg power wire, and changing my plug to a hubble one. Not a huge difference, but the only way I can explain it, is imagine the sound before was slightly grey.... after the upgrade the sound turned black. I do not know how else to explain it. Silence was more silent, and everything was just slightly clearer. By all means I was blown away lol. I never thought it would make a difference, but it did.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

*coughcough*blsht*cough*


...JK.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Yes Oak244,i do know what you mean.I went through 8 different speaker cables for my home speakers before i found the right one and i have changed power cords and plugs and it all adds up to better sound.BUT,if another person cannot hear the difference then that's ok and they shouldn't waste their coin on something that they will never hear the difference in.I wish i had a tin ear then i would be a rich man listening to Radio Shack all-in-one home audio systems and Wal Mart car stuff.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

only had an audison LRX, and a zapco Studio but from my personal use Id take the LRX of the two. never had a c2k, or a vrx though (one day). arc a great but over priced IMO. the SE are a house mortgage for goodness sake, unless you have the dealer/rep hookup (which I dont darnit lol)

but I guess is you dont have the money to play with the big boys leave the room lol


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## Oak244 (Apr 7, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> Yes Oak244,i do know what you mean.I went through 8 different speaker cables for my home speakers before i found the right one and i have changed power cords and plugs and it all adds up to better sound.BUT,if another person cannot hear the difference then that's ok and they shouldn't waste their coin on something that they will never hear the difference in.I wish i had a tin ear then i would be a rich man listening to Radio Shack all-in-one home audio systems and Wal Mart car stuff.


What speaker Cables did you like? I have yet to upgrade my speaker wire, due to cost, and unable to audition first.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Oak244 said:


> What speaker Cables did you like? I have yet to upgrade my speaker wire, due to cost, and unable to audition first.


Ended up choosing the Wireworld Eclipse III+ speaker cable.Tested: Cardas Golden Reference,Wireworld Polaris III+,Cardas Cross,Kimber 8TC, MITerminater 2,Nordost Red Dawn Rev II,Analysis Plus(2 mdls),Anti Cables, The Eclipse III+ sounded transparent,added nothing.No Cardas warmth,no Nordost shrill just solid deep bass,clear mids,perfect highs,wide,deep,clear soundstage.Pretty much what went in came out.


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## Oak244 (Apr 7, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> Ended up choosing the Wireworld Eclipse III+ speaker cable.Tested: Cardas Golden Reference,Wireworld Polaris III+,Cardas Cross,Kimber 8TC, MITerminater 2,Nordost Red Dawn Rev II,Analysis Plus(2 mdls),Anti Cables, The Eclipse III+ sounded transparent,added nothing.No Cardas warmth,no Nordost shrill just solid deep bass,clear mids,perfect highs,wide,deep,clear soundstage.Pretty much what went in came out.


Very cool. I ended up with DH Labs RCA's which I felt the same way about. I will look into the Eclipse III's. Thanks!


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

You're very welcome.Cheers


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Thanks for all the help everybody! I am still looking for your experiences with the Audison LRX and the Zapco Digital Reference.Cheers


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> Thanks for all the help everybody! I am still looking for your experiences with the Audison LRX and the Zapco Digital Reference.Cheers


I've got a LRx 1.400 and 2.250 on the way, but I won't have them hooked up for probably another couple of months so I'm not much help.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

evan said:


> I've got a LRx 1.400 and 2.250 on the way, but I won't have them hooked up for probably another couple of months so I'm not much help.


That's fine Evan.I'm rebuilding over the winter,my car still sits in the body shop being repaired from my encounter with Bambi  so if you don't mind letting me know what happens that would be great.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> That's fine Evan.I'm rebuilding over the winter,my car still sits in the body shop being repaired from my encounter with Bambi  so if you don't mind letting me know what happens that would be great.


Sure. I'll post something in the review section when I get to that point.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

I strongly suggest listening to some Audison amps in several installs before you buy them. I'm a dealer for them , and I can tell you they definitely have characteristics that are all their own. Many customers complain about their dynamics on loud complex music , especially hard rock. 
After quite a few compliants about this , we now ONLY use them in installs where the customer ONLY likes classical , jazz , or like music.
There will be people that will disagree , but THAT many customers simply _must_ be on to something ! We did a weekend open test session with about 50 friends and customers back in the summer .... One car , three different equal power amps ( measured at outputs ! ) ... Audison , Arc , True , and Boston Acoustics .... After 14 exhausting hours ( with Bar-B-Que and Beer  ) , Arc had DOMINATED the test. *The listeners NEVER knew what we had installed at any given time , and ALL other variables stayed the same. * 
Suprisingly , Audison scored the lowest ... consistently !
Just food for thought


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

AVI said:


> I strongly suggest listening to some Audison amps in several installs before you buy them. I'm a dealer for them , and I can tell you they definitely have characteristics that are all their own. Many customers complain about their dynamics on loud complex music , especially hard rock.
> After quite a few compliants about this , we now ONLY use them in installs where the customer ONLY likes classical , jazz , or like music.
> There will be people that will disagree , but THAT many customers simply _must_ be on to something ! We did a weekend open test session with about 50 friends and customers back in the summer .... One car , three different equal power amps ( measured at outputs ! ) ... Audison , Arc , True , and Boston Acoustics .... After 14 exhausting hours ( with Bar-B-Que and Beer  ) , Arc had DOMINATED the test. *The listeners NEVER knew what we had installed at any given time , and ALL other variables stayed the same. *
> Suprisingly , Audison scored the lowest ... consistently !
> Just food for thought


Thanks for that  I have heard so many good things about the Arc products on here but i have no dealers here so i would have to internet shop i guess and not hearing them is really a stab in the dark because everybody hears different things.From what you are saying they are tilted upward a little, bright maybe,midrange is less prevalent?My home stereo is a tube based Sonic Frontiers set up and i do lean slightly to a warmer sound but still like the detail just not the etched highs.Am i correct in my evaluation on what you were getting at?Being an Audison dealer that must of hurt a little to finish last though?


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Having used the XXKs, C2k's and DLS Ultimates on the same fronstage over the course of the last year, I've found the Arc's to be the least colored of the bunch across the freq range.

Give me tight, impactful midbass, unobstructed midrange resolution and clear top end- and leave the colorful fancy integrated chips in the opamps/ Burr Brown chips for the birds. I want to amplify my source, i want to amplify the earthiness of the human voice and instruments. If vocals create resonance in the room- emminating from the back of the concert hall in the recording-I want to hear it, it all of its realness- not buttered up.
I prefer to leave tonality/presentation to tuning and speaker selection. Like Rob Zeff wrote in his 'Anatomy of an Amplifier' article..."The musicians and their instruments are supposed to have "the sound", not audio equipment! "


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> Thanks for that  I have heard so many good things about the Arc products on here but i have no dealers here so i would have to internet shop i guess and not hearing them is really a stab in the dark because everybody hears different things.From what you are saying they are tilted upward a little, bright maybe,midrange is less prevalent?My home stereo is a tube based Sonic Frontiers set up and i do lean slightly to a warmer sound but still like the detail just not the etched highs.Am i correct in my evaluation on what you were getting at?Being an Audison dealer that must of hurt a little to finish last though?


No , that's not what i was trying to say. The Audison amps lack good dynamics. They are very smooth , with great and detailed mid-range , but when you really want to play some loud and hard rock , they always seem to just leave something lacking. It's kind of hard to put my finger on , but it just seems you were never inclined to stomp your feet to the music when the Audisons were pushed to play loud. Their bass was always obviously not as sharp or authoratative as the Arc or Boston amps either.
I'm not knocking Audison at all , as they do have their niche , but I don't feel as if they are as good an all around amp as the less expensive Arc amps are.
Also , we weren't comparing the Audison to the expensive SE Series either , but the Foose Series instead   
*As a side note ... we often pair Audison with more bright sounding speakers like Focal , Diamond , and even Boston Z Series. It's somewhat duller sound actually blends fairly well with the more agressive sounding speakers.*


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

3.5max6spd said:


> Having used the XXKs, C2k's and DLS Ultimates on the same fronstage over the course of the last year, I've found the Arc's to be the least colored of the bunch across the freq range.
> 
> Give me tight, impactful midbass, unobstructed midrange resolution and clear top end- and leave the colorful fancy integrated chips in the opamps/ Burr Brown chips for the birds. I want to amplify my source, i want to amplify the earthiness of the human voice and instruments. If vocals create resonance in the room- emminating from the back of the concert hall in the recording-I want to hear it, it all of its realness- not buttered up.
> I prefer to leave tonality/presentation to tuning and speaker selection. Like Rob Zeff wrote in his 'Anatomy of an Amplifier' article..."The musicians and their instruments are supposed to have "the sound", not audio equipment! "


Holy crap ... we actually agree !!  I also tested the Zapco C2k amps against the XXK ( and Foose ) , and felt the Arc was simply better in every way. I've never heard the DLS amps though.


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

Remember , names in audio mean NOTHING ! The worst sound I ever had in one of my own cars was when i used three of the very baddest amps McIntosh made ! I tried them with three different head units , and four different pairs of speakers , and McIntosh amps always sounded cold , sterile , and lifeless.
I even experienced this with high end home amps. I HATE the sound of Krell , McIntosh , ect , ect... that are supposed to be " the best " ...


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

AVI said:


> No , that's not what i was trying to say. The Audison amps lack good dynamics. They are very smooth , with great and detailed mid-range , but when you really want to play some loud and hard rock , they always seem to just leave something lacking. It's kind of hard to put my finger on , but it just seems you were never inclined to stomp your feet to the music when the Audisons were pushed to play loud. Their bass was always obviously not as sharp or authoratative as the Arc or Boston amps either.
> I'm not knocking Audison at all , as they do have their niche , but I don't feel as if they are as good an all around amp as the less expensive Arc amps are.
> Also , we weren't comparing the Audison to the expensive SE Series either , but the Foose Series instead
> *As a side note ... we often pair Audison with more bright sounding speakers like Focal , Diamond , and even Boston Z Series. It's somewhat duller sound actually blends fairly well with the more agressive sounding speakers.*


Got ya!I do like the firm midbass snap in my music and as i have my system in a louder(hotrod,love the sound of 450hp too!) vehicle i don't want to or can afford to lose that part of the range.Thanks again for your insight.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Are the VRX the same way also??


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

I'd like to thank all the people who took the time to answer my thread.It was very enlightening to say the least.I have decided to give the Arc Audio amps a try and have picked up a 2050xxk for the tweets and a 4050xxk for the midbasses.Just gotta find a sub amp now.Thanks again,this place ROCKS


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## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

Whoa. What about the Zapco DC ref's or Arc Foose series??


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Was thinking about the DC and the Foose as well as the Audison but in the end it came down to money and priority.I got a great deal on the 2 XXK and my friend has deigned a complete custom door panel for my car that will house a 8" midbass and only stick about 1 1/2".These will be kind of pricey and i'd rather put the money into the doors and speakers and i can upgrade amps if i feel i have to at a later stage.I'm also redoing the trunk with new materail and maybe the sub box so...money,money,money.  Also,still got to buy my big screen for the Stanley Cup playoffs in the spring!


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

AVI said:


> No , that's not what i was trying to say. The Audison amps lack good dynamics. They are very smooth , with great and detailed mid-range , but when you really want to play some loud and hard rock , they always seem to just leave something lacking. It's kind of hard to put my finger on , but it just seems you were never inclined to stomp your feet to the music when the Audisons were pushed to play loud. Their bass was always obviously not as sharp or authoratative as the Arc or Boston amps either.
> I'm not knocking Audison at all , as they do have their niche , but I don't feel as if they are as good an all around amp as the less expensive Arc amps are.
> Also , we weren't comparing the Audison to the expensive SE Series either , but the Foose Series instead
> *As a side note ... we often pair Audison with more bright sounding speakers like Focal , Diamond , and even Boston Z Series. It's somewhat duller sound actually blends fairly well with the more agressive sounding speakers.*


Which line audison was it? I've found the LRx line to be especially like that. The VRx-es are better but I actually liked the old VR's better.
I agree on the tone bias, and on a side note I've always liked the PG amps for their neutral rendition.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

Rbsarve said:


> Which line audison was it? I've found the LRx line to be especially like that. The VRx-es are better but I actually liked the old VR's better.
> I agree on the tone bias, and on a side note I've always liked the PG amps for their neutral rendition.


He was talking about vthe LRX line


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

Rbsarve said:


> Which line audison was it? I've found the LRx line to be especially like that. The VRx-es are better but I actually liked the old VR's better.
> I agree on the tone bias, and on a side note I've always liked the PG amps for their neutral rendition.


We had the VRx Series in our shop. We never had a call for the LRx line.


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

AVI said:


> We had the VRx Series in our shop. We never had a call for the LRx line.


Got a quick opinion on the VRX's?


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## JAG (May 6, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> Got a quick opinion on the VRX's?


See posts #47 and 50 on page 5 of this thread ...
I'd MUCH prefer those XXK amps you picked up over Audison


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## Nass027 (Oct 25, 2006)

AVI said:


> See posts #47 and 50 on page 5 of this thread ...
> I'd MUCH prefer those XXK amps you picked up over Audison


Great,makes feel good!!


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

i liked the way the vrx 4.300 sounded personally.. but the 1.500 i could live without.. shut down all the time on me at 1ohm and at 2ohms.. never seemed to be doing near 2000 watts as rated... just wasnt a contender imo when compared to other amps mentioned.. my 2 pdx 1.1000 stacked are much stronger than the 1.500 was...


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

ZAPCO DC = free balanced line drivers for each channel plus the money you save on all those RCAs.


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## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> ZAPCO DC = free balanced line drivers for each channel plus the money you save on all those RCAs.


I wholeheartedly agree. If I read it right, the Zapco DC does absolutely everything except give blowjobs. Please correct me if Im wrong, anybody. EACH and every channel of the DC Zapcos have INDIVIDUAL In/Out gains, BP every channel, Slope 6-24dB's, Time delay, and my favorite 10 bands of equalization for each channel and and you can control all the settings of a laptop. This is a high end amp w/ its own digital sound processor. Im suprised there arent more ravings of this line of amps for the great features.

And why the big Arc Audio bandwagon for online car audio dudes, it can't do many of the things listed above.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

I also love the all channels master volume feature, a good use will be that you can preset it at a level that even with the volume, bass, and treble on the head unit up all the way, your speakers won't get damaged. Just lock away the processor control in the glove compartment after you set it on that preset and no worries. Very good option for dealing with ignorant friends, valets, dealer servicing......


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Nass027 said:


> Looking for feedback on a couple of amps i'm thinking of getting.The Audison LRX line (6.9) and the Zapco Digital Reference line(650.6) or any other ones in their respective lines. If anybody has heard either of them or has an opinion on them it would be greatly appreciated because where i am they are "new" in town and not much feedback except from salesman.I am going to take out my passives and run these in an active 3-way front end with MB Quart Q series  (i know not DIY but it's all i got right now)6.5"w, 5.25"m,1"t.I will also except any other recommendations as i have been out of the game for a while and a lot of the brands have changed and some not for the better.Love this site, it is fantastic.Cheers! My current amps are Soundstream Reference 500,300,200 and Class A6.0


You wont hear any improvement changing from your soundstreams. Also the q series can sound amazing with some tuning. We have a diy bias here and its true the peerless will provide great sound, the quarts will too, just more money.


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