# mostly stealth mkv GTI with 3 way active front and false floor



## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Some background can be found here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...9-2007-gti-have-some-equipment-need-more.html

This is my first installation with any prep work that requires a fair amount of custom fabrication. It might not get done quickly, but I'm hoping to do it right.

Here's my full equipment list, everything is here now.

I had sitting on a shelf:

2X Alpine Type R 6.5" components with passive xo's (for use in the rear)
2X Alpine Type R 6.5" coaxials (don't plan on using these)
1x JL 250/1
1x Alpine MRV-F345 (75W RMS x4)
1x 1.25 cuft sealed box with 12" hole 
1x delaminated JL 12w3v2-4 (won't use this either)
1x Alpine CDA-9881
Tons of wiring and 2 inline fuses

I ordered
2x Dayton RS225-4 (fr 8" midbass)
2x Dayton RS100-4 (fr 4" midbass)
2x Vifa XT25SC90-04 (fr tweeter)
1x JL 12w3v3-4
1x Alpine MRP-F300 (50W RMS x4)
50 sq ft B Quiet Ultimate
13.5 sq ft B Quiet Vcomp
1x JBL GTX47
1x JBL GTE422

100 ft 14ga speaker wire
25 ft 1/0 power wire
6 short 2ch RCA cables
5 yds carpeting
distro block

The kicker is that I'm keeping my spare tire. This car is my daily driver and I refuse to go without the tools and spare. 

I'll be taking several ideas from Bing's amazing installs in mkv's as well as the 2010 Stealth STi with a twist. I like how he is able to tip the whole assembly to get to his spare tire. I'll have to tip my seats forward and prop the box up just like that one.

Just for reference, here's the link to that STi.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...2010-sti-stealth-sq-install-slight-twist.html

I drew up plans and came up with a box that gets me the prescribed volume for a sealed enclosure per JL's website. (1.25 cuft). The side effect of all this is that my floor height by is raised by about 4" and makes the top of the box level with the bottom opening of the hatch.

My Vifa tweeters won't fit in the factory sail panels and I'm not thrilled about the idea of putting them in the a-pillars. I had my mind made up that I wanted to mold them into the sail panels, when I found this. SQ System with Custom Speaker/Tweeter Pods - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com

I won't be making the tweeter pods right away, but when I do they'll look something like those. I don't even know which direction the tweeters need to be pointed. I'll be doing the PVC tube cap as a temp solution so I can still have tweeters while I'm playing around with their angles.

Now, onto the fun stuff, here's the start of the sub box with the amps, eq, and xo layed out in the trunk area.










Perhaps I started my build thread a little early, but I'm really anxious to get this installed. My goal is to have the sub box complete (including carpeting) by next Friday. The rest of the installation will be happening over the 3-day MLK weekend.

Thanks for reading and feel free to make any suggestions you see fit.


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## neuspeedescort (Feb 23, 2010)

looks like its going to be a rats nest of wires. ziptie ziptie ziptie! good luck.


NEUMAN


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

yeah, I've already got plans for that. I want the finish product will be something that I'd be proud to show, especially because it will be my own work. Do I plan on winning? Heck no, but I'd like to at least not be laughed at haha


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## neuspeedescort (Feb 23, 2010)

asp87 said:


> I'd like to at least not be laughed at


if only everyone worked this way. so many knobs just whip it together and call it good.


NEUMAN


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## Irishfocus06 (Sep 11, 2008)

Interesting box design and amp rack. Look forward to the finished pics!

Got a lot of processing in there.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

I'm really curious to know what the sub is going to sound like with this strange box design. I haven't really seen too many oddly shaped boxes and I'm wondering how it's going to affect the driver's response. We'll find out!

Yeah, it is a fair amount of processing, but I was trying to do it cheaply (read: without buying a 6 channel amp). The cheapest solution I came up with was another small 4ch amp. There's one channel each for the front tweeters, mids, lows, one for the sub, and the rear fill has a passive xo so only needs 1 ch each... 9 channels total.

My amp rack will leave room below the rack and to the right of the spare tire, should I choose to at signal processing at a later date.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

asp87 said:


> I'm really curious to know what the sub is going to sound like with this strange box design. I haven't really seen too many oddly shaped boxes and I'm wondering how it's going to affect the driver's response. We'll find out!
> 
> Yeah, it is a fair amount of processing, but I was trying to do it cheaply (read: without buying a 6 channel amp). The cheapest solution I came up with was another small 4ch amp. There's one channel each for the front tweeters, mids, lows, one for the sub, and the rear fill has a passive xo so only needs 1 ch each... 9 channels total.
> 
> My amp rack will leave room below the rack and to the right of the spare tire, should I choose to at signal processing at a later date.


every fiberglass box that people make is always "oddly shaped". it will sound exactly as if you made a 'regular' sealed box, shape of a subwoofer enclosure is almost completely irrelevant. so you will be fine 

and i dont mean to put you down, because you are taking on a large undertaking! but you might not have enough power to your daytons. im just throwing it out there. 

otherwise, its looking like you have an awesome design plan and a sweet car! just take your time and be careful with what you do! it should come out a success!


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

req said:


> every fiberglass box that people make is always "oddly shaped". it will sound exactly as if you made a 'regular' sealed box, shape of a subwoofer enclosure is almost completely irrelevant. so you will be fine
> 
> and i dont mean to put you down, because you are taking on a large undertaking! but you might not have enough power to your daytons. im just throwing it out there.
> 
> otherwise, its looking like you have an awesome design plan and a sweet car! just take your time and be careful with what you do! it should come out a success!


That's quite relieving to know about the box shape 

No no- you're not putting me down. And if I get personally offended by something someone says to me on teh intarwebz then I need to grow up. No e-thuggin' here. On the topic of the Daytons, is 50W RMS for the 4's and 75W RMS for the 8's not enough? I expected it to be, but if not... hrm. If anything, I thought I was underpowering the sub.

Thanks


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## a383z (Sep 20, 2010)

I like your list of using what you have to get it done. Im kind of doing the same thing. I would realy like to know how the jbl eq and crossover work out for you. The only i would say and its by reading other peoples replies ... Is you may be missing Time Allignment. which may not be a big deal. I would say dont be afraid to mount amps on the sides of the trunk it might help with the wire nest and looks.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

lol well cool beans! in my experience power has always been an issue. having 50~75w is good for most people, but _guys like us_ always want more. i decided that 100~150w was not enough for my midbass, and i got a 250x2 amp to push them and i am satisfied. i didnt like running my amps so hard all the time to get the loudness i wanted. im not saying it wont sound good or be loud, just that you might run into headroom issues.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

a383Z- I'm glad something I'm doing is going to help others.

I told myself I wouldn't go active, then I decided to pick my own front speakers and not buy a kit, so I had to go active. The XO I had originally ordered didn't have enough filters, so I cancelled that order and spent the same amount of $ on this JBL XO with the matching EQ. TA and a DSP would be the next step, I agree. We'll see if I decide that I need it later down the line.

req - I'll keep that in mind. I never had headroom issues in my first soundsystem reaching the volume levels I wanted, so hopefully I don't here either, but we'll see.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

right on bro! keep it rolling!


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

I just double checked the power handling recommendations of my 3 way drivers and they are as follows from the mfg

Dayton RS225: 80W RMS, 120 peak, going to be getting 75W RMS
Dayton RS100: 30W RMS, 45 peak, going to be getting 50W RMS
Vifa XT XT25SC90-04: 50W RMS, 100W peak, going to be getting 50W RMS

I think each speaker will be getting the correct amount of power and if anything, the 4" Daytons are going to be over-driven.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

made 2" spacers for the RS225's. 3 pieces of mdf glued together. gonna coat em with epoxy when I get time.









Screwed it all together, trimmed a few things to fit, and made a side piece









Had to make some clearance for the sub


















With everything in and the seatback up.









It's all gettin there. It's coming out pretty awesome especially considering that we don't have a table saw to work with. We've been clamping a straight edge down and making long cuts with a skill saw.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

It looks really nice man, as far as the power I was referring to, having exactly the rms of the driver is ok, but headroom is what I was referring about. Toward the rms of any amplifier thd and whatnot starts to rise, so having a speaker that has a rms of 50w running off an amp with 100w per channel will keep the amp cooler, thd levels low, the noise floor down, and all that good stuff. Setting the gain so the amp produces 50w for your speaker is simple even though its rated for 100w =)

You will be fine, I'm just saying headroom is your best friend.

The false floor is looking real nice man!


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

req said:


> It looks really nice man, as far as the power I was referring to, having exactly the rms of the driver is ok, but headroom is what I was referring about. Toward the rms of any amplifier thd and whatnot starts to rise, so having a speaker that has a rms of 50w running off an amp with 100w per channel will keep the amp cooler, thd levels low, the noise floor down, and all that good stuff. Setting the gain so the amp produces 50w for your speaker is simple even though its rated for 100w =)
> 
> You will be fine, I'm just saying headroom is your best friend.
> 
> The false floor is looking real nice man!


I guess I didn't understand that aspect of it as well as I thought. Thanks for helping to clear it up. I'll be the first to admit I don't know even close to everything about how the signal changes as it goes through each piece of equipment.

Thanks  I'm diggin' it too.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

A little bit of math goes a long way towards a good fit.









Barely clears, but barely is better than not.









Don't mind the sawdust on the sub.



























I realized that my older head unit won't let me keep my steering wheel controls. I'm selling it to a friend of mine to plug and play into his jeep and I ordered an Alpine CDA 117. This gets me time alignment too


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## bikerider (Dec 28, 2008)

Looking good. Was going to ask what you were going to do where you made the cutout for the sub, but it was answered in your next post. Are you going to hinge the floor to get access to the spare?

Looks like the space under the rack could be used to hide the xovers for the rear fill speakers, also looks like you have a little space on the top side for a distro block or 2. Also interested to see how you finish it off/cover it.

Funny, I used the same install by Bing for inspiration for my in-process false floor build too.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Glad you like it. I had originally thought of putting in hinges, but I'm not too keen on drilling into or welding to the unibody of this car.

You've thought ahead, I see  I'm torn between putting the rear fill crossovers there, or in the back panels with the speakers. The distro block(s) are going underneath the floor.

I've got a few ideas how to to finish it and cover it. Haven't quite made up my mind just yet.


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

Nice!


.


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## Bimmer (Sep 5, 2010)

i bet that sub can sound very good in that particular enclosure


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## tornaido_3927 (Nov 23, 2009)

I love installs like this, odd shaped boxes and the like when people get creative, can't wait to see more!


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## greywarden (Jan 6, 2011)

asp87 said:


> I just double checked the power handling recommendations of my 3 way drivers and they are as follows from the mfg
> 
> Dayton RS225: 80W RMS, 120 peak, going to be getting 75W RMS
> Dayton RS100: 30W RMS, 45 peak, going to be getting 50W RMS
> ...


If they are crossed over hig enough, the power handling won't really be an issue. The only problem I forsee is if the efficiency is much lower, more than 3dB lower, they will require more power to match the amplitude of the other drivers, which, in turn, could cause higher distortion numbers.

Also, I've noticed something that you guys (mobile audio guys) never do with your cone drivers (mids, woofers, etc.) is chamfer the rear of the mounting ring. It lets the driver "breathe" more easily and with that adapter being that deep, I'd recommend it. Here's a write-up from Troels Gravensen, you can tell he knows his stuff, becuase he's designed/built well over 100 DIY speakers.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/chamfer.htm


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## bikerider (Dec 28, 2008)

asp87 said:


> Glad you like it. I had originally thought of putting in hinges, but I'm not too keen on drilling into or welding to the unibody of this car.
> 
> You've thought ahead, I see  I'm torn between putting the rear fill crossovers there, or in the back panels with the speakers. The distro block(s) are going underneath the floor.
> 
> I've got a few ideas how to to finish it and cover it. Haven't quite made up my mind just yet.


I'd at least consider some way to secure it down then, I know it is probably pretty heavy with all of the equipment on it, but it can still move up and down over big bumps and from a safety perspective I'd want it secured.

I woundn't worry about sinking some screws down into the hatch floor for hinges or some other way to secure the rack, just make sure you know what is on the other side (hopefully nothing) before you go through. Hit the holes/screws with some paint or undercoating from the outside after everything is in place and you shouldn't have any issues.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

greywarden said:


> Also, I've noticed something that you guys (mobile audio guys) never do with your cone drivers (mids, woofers, etc.) is chamfer the rear of the mounting ring. It lets the driver "breathe" more easily and with that adapter being that deep, I'd recommend it. Here's a write-up from Troels Gravensen, you can tell he knows his stuff, because he's designed/built well over 100 DIY speakers.
> 
> chamfering driver holes


Actually, I see a fair amount of people on here doing that...but they usually own Hat L3's....we'll probably see it alot with the new Audible Physics 3" widebander also.

The problem I see, in a car, is that frequently the size of the factory speaker hole is much smaller than the basket of the new speakers, or the spacer is multiple layers in thickness. If we were mounting our speakers in single layer baffles on the front of an enclosure, it's easy. When the baffle is 1.5"-2.25" thick, it becomes more difficult.

I suppose, if you made the overall outer diameter of the spacer a little bigger than required you could do it on the back of the first layer and make the remaining layers larger. Similar to examples D, and E from the link above...which were not tested.

But I wonder if it is as effective when the hole on the door is slightly smaller than the cone of the woofer?

I know I'm not the only one here who wants to avoid cutting up my car, for something that may or may not work.

I also know that I am working with pretty tight tolerances, and I can't make my adapter rings much bigger to allow me to chamfer the top layer.

I was definitely planning on doing it with my TB W3 Bamboos.

Jay
/hijack


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## greywarden (Jan 6, 2011)

JayinMI said:


> Actually, I see a fair amount of people on here doing that...but they usually own Hat L3's....we'll probably see it alot with the new Audible Physics 3" widebander also.
> 
> The problem I see, in a car, is that frequently the size of the factory speaker hole is much smaller than the basket of the new speakers, or the spacer is multiple layers in thickness. If we were mounting our speakers in single layer baffles on the front of an enclosure, it's easy. When the baffle is 1.5"-2.25" thick, it becomes more difficult.
> 
> ...


Right I understand the space constraints within the mounting locations, the only point I'm trying to make is that with an already limited way to control raw frequency response (compared to home audio, where the enclosure can be built relatively any size, placed in any area, and aimed at the listener without issues - generally) of the drivers, it would behoove anyone to chamfer if and only if the positioning allowed.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Cool. Since you referred to us as "you car stereo guys," I wasn't sure if you had taken that into account. Good info just the same and thanks.

Jay


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

When it comes to the baffle being chamfered, I highly doubt it's going to make a difference for the sub. The frame of the basket is just as deep as the MDF that it's mounted to.

The only speakers that I'm installing in a less-than ideal baffle setup is the 8" mids. The 4's will be mounted with something very thin, probably 1/4" plywood or something thinner. The tweeters have their own baffle built in.

I'll probably end up mounting the box to the floor some how... Hinges or latches or something. Still working on that.

Glad everyone likes what I've been workin' on


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Inlet for the wires coming from and going to the front. Guess I need to clean it up with a file a little bit more. Didn't realize till I saw the pic...









grommet for the sub wires









Broke during drilling/cutting. Glued, clamped, no problem.



























Everything bolted down, the top piece on, wire holes cut.


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## neuspeedescort (Feb 23, 2010)

yeah buddy! looking great! i may have read over it. are you going to build a cover that the amps can breath thru or just a cover?


NEUMAN


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Thanks

I got that same question on golfmkv.com. Briefly: I didn't plan on it, but am starting to consider it. My options are: be forced to turn down the volume on long drives or remove the floor when I want to play loud for a while.


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## greywarden (Jan 6, 2011)

If you plan on covering it with carpet you could leave a big enough hole for a few silent 12v fans, and cover it with metal mesh, isolated from the wood, so it doesn't rattle like hell, then cover over it all with carpet. Try to get some without a backing on it, though.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

The carpet I have has no backing, and I bought a lot of extra (why not at $5.50/yd?). I think I'm going to install it as is and if I need better cooling later I'll come back to it. It will not be covered for the first week or so, anyway.

I forgot my camera last night, so no pictures  Last night was spent taking care of little things, but all the little things add up to a big thing. All holes are drilled an cuts are made. No more MDF dust (till next week when we make the top floor and fascia piece...)

The good news is that I got to listen to my subwoofer. We hooked my completed (but not sealed) box up to Scotty's car. Sounded pretty good but still needs polyfill, carpetting, and to be properly sealed. I've got lots of sound damping to install. There were rattles everywhere. It's so close to being ready to listen to, but even after that part is done there will be a few other small things to take care of.

Next on the list is to seal the box (Scott is going to do that today). Saturday morning we're going to carpet it. Not really looking forward to that. It's gonna suck with all these funny shapes. Then running wires and cable ties.

Oh, and my CDA 117 arrived yesterday. Looks purdy.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

lookin real good!

im really impressed with the compact enclosure\amp rack!

awesome


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Thanks again. My friend Scott told me to keep a log of hours, but I told him I'd prefer not to think about it. Right now, I sort of wish I did. Between the 2 of us we probably have 70-80 hours total into it. That figure doesn't include the research and brainstorming that I did on my own. Fun? You bet. I haven't lost my patience, but I will say I'm glad the end is in sight. I really really really want to listen to everything and doing all this work has had minimal reward thus far. It's gettin close though.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

I'm going to apoligize ahead of time for the lack of pictures. The weekend turned into a 'get **** done, eff the camera' kind of work session. I took some and will be uploading them over the next few days.

My mounds of research payed off when it came to knowing what to put where, so for any of you out there looking to do something like this. Read till you think you've figured it all out then start again.

Things that went well:
-Removal of the interior & old sound gear
-Installation of rear speakers
-8" drivers
-HU
-Running power and RCA cable
-applying damping material (much faster with 2 people one to cut one to lay)
-fabricating/installing the tweeter pods
-carpeting the sub box (I'm pretty happy with the results, especially for my first time working with carpet, but it is tedious)

Things that went ok but could have been better
-reassembly of the interior (clips suck)
-clearancing of the 4" drivers (didn't cut enough the first time around)
-running speaker wire (those molex connectors are a *****, but I was able to get 3 pairs of 12 ga spkr wire into my doors)

Things that went poorly/didn't work:
-Sticking the sound blocking material to the door skin. Either my prep job sucked or 3m Super 77 doesn't stick to the rubber of B Quiet Vcomp. I need to find a different glue.
-removal and reinstallation of the outer door skins (I think something in the lock mechanism was f'ed up before I started, I fixed it and reinstalled them. Everything works like it should now) It was very frustrating because I was already exhausted and just wanted to put the damn thing back together, not sit down and figure out how it actually worked. In the end, I ended up having to do just that.

What's left to do:
-lay down the damping material in the hatch and trunk area
-Tuning
-Figure out wtf is up with the sub amp (Something is screwy with the signal it's sending so the sub plays noise of frequencies that are blocked to it via the XO.)
-Clean up a the speaker wire routing on the amp rack
-make false floor

Also, I got the airbag fault warning. We started the whole thing with my windows down and by the time the batt was disconnected and the dash was apart we realized we needed to roll them up. I knew it was going to happen but the windows _had_ to go up. I'll figure out a way to clear the code... It's all reassembled and that's the only electronic warning coming up.

I had purchased 25 ft of 1/0 ga and a 100ft reel of 12 ga spkr wire (and used some wire leftover from a previous installation). If I were to do it again, I'd want at least 30 ft of 1/0 and 200 ft of 12 ga.

Random:
-The previous owner had installed a few things pretty hack-like. Got all that crap out and I only have the things that I need in there now. It's all zip tied n stuff.
-I found a 1/4 drive 3" SK extension with a T20 Snap On bit under the rear seat. Mine now!

Impressions of the sound:
I'm elated, especially once I get the subwoofer issue sorted out. It needs some tuning but wow. I'm so happy I went active and I'm really thrilled that I stuffed the 8 in the doors.


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## MassZJ (Jan 7, 2011)

Need pics!!!


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

MassZJ said:


> Need pics!!!


A HUGE thanks to ^ this guy. Without him this wouldn't have been possible. He donated the use of his shop, many consumables, and above all, his time to this project.

Pics tonight, if I'm still awake.

I just spent my lunch break listening to music in the car. It needs tuning but holy hell is it awesome


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Here are the photos I have. Some of them aren't the greatest. The batteries for my flash died fairly early in the weekend.





































http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...8_922920133582_9120626_48259021_2617834_n.jpg














































How I ran on the wires into the door









oh, and I think the JL 250/1 amp either needs repair or replacement. Sucks but I'll figure it out.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

I ran a router around all corners of the box. Really smoothed it out before carpetting.


















stock 4" compared to the Dayton































































Not bad for my first carpet job. A little overspray on the bottom, but overall I'm happy with it.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

I just spoke with JL tech support on the phone. Very knowledgeable and helpful. Looks like I'm going to send the amp in for service. $120 and it comes back with a 90 day warranty.


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## kwhitelaw (Sep 4, 2007)

asp87 said:


> Not bad for my first carpet job. A little overspray on the bottom, but overall I'm happy with it.


pick up a can of acrysol and use a scrap piece of carpet. it'll get that overspray off in no time..

rest of the build looks great. I have a '10 tdi jsw that im planning out...getting some good ideas from your thread


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## dales (Dec 16, 2010)

not bad man


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

I'll look into the acrysol stuff. Thanks for the tip and good luck with your tdi.

There are more pictures coming when I stop listening to it for long enough to take my camera out.

I'm making tweaks here and there and slowly getting it a little bit better. I'm no professional tuner so I'm not expecting immaculate results, but the changes I've made so far are working out alright.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

So tonight I decided to quickly go outside and take some pictures. Then I ended up listening to Canadian Brass and messing with settings for at least a half hour.














































Pass side tweeter pod as viewed from the driver's seat. It can be rotated to point up and towards the center, but where it is sorta sounds the best for right now.









Close up. I used the PVC caps, epoxied in a circle of 1/4" plywood that I cut with 2 hole saws mounted on the same arbor, sanded, painted, and drilled the holes a little under and screwed the 8-32 SS allen heads into the plywood.









Driver side as seen from the driver seat.


















it's blue.









I've got a handfull of small things, probably no more than 2 8 hour days left before all the hardware is 'done.' It's certainly getting there.

IIRC, right now my XO points are:

Tweet: >4k
4": 400ish-4k
8: 60-70-400
sub: 80> @ 18db/oct

The JBL XO does fixed 12db/oct slopes for all bands except the sub. My options are 18 or 24 db/oct for that.


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## jmil1974 (Dec 24, 2007)

I'd have given the 8s more power (100-125 RMS) but time will tell if what you have is enough for you. Overall, I LOVE your build. Well planned, well executed, and a reasonable budget for an active 3 way. Great job!


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Funny you should mention that - I have the gain turned up on those more than any other component. I'm considering giving them more power by disconnecting my rear speakers and bridging the 4x 75W.

I was always a huge proponent of rear fill with my previous system, but the front soundstage wasn't set up very well at all. Right now, I don't even feel like I hear them and I only put them in for the rare occasion that I have passengers in the rear. I'll end up experimenting with it, I'm sure.

Thanks for the kind words


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## jmil1974 (Dec 24, 2007)

asp87 said:


> Funny you should mention that - I have the gain turned up on those more than any other component. I'm considering giving them more power by disconnecting my rear speakers and bridging the 4x 75W.
> 
> I was always a huge proponent of rear fill with my previous system, but the front soundstage wasn't set up very well at all. Right now, I don't even feel like I hear them and I only put them in for the rare occasion that I have passengers in the rear. I'll end up experimenting with it, I'm sure.
> 
> Thanks for the kind words


Rear fill is way overrated in most cases. Bridge that power for the Dayton 8s and watch the world change...in both mid bass and sub bass.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

I just experimented with a few things including tweeter direction, xo points, rear fill gain, and time alignment. Here's what I decided:

-Holy wow does turning the gain on the rear up pull the stage rearward. Much much more than I expected.
-the stage gets weird with the tweeters on-axis. Potentially because none of the other speakers are on-axis?
-Right now I only have TA per corner and it's done by distance... I made progress but I'm no where near happy.
-I put in a little bit of underlap between the tweeters and 4" mids. I think it helped.

Right now my XO points are about

Tweet: >4.5kHz @12db/oct
4": 400Hz- 4kHz @12db/oct
8": 80-400 Hz @12db/oct
Sub: <80Hz @18db/oct

I always forget exactly what I set them to by the time I get inside... Oh well.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Try crossing the tweets @ 4.5kHz 18dB/oct (leave the mids @ 12dB/oct) - might have to invert the polarity of the tweets 

Might help with transition, 
Kelvin


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Unfortunately, my XO has fixed slopes at 12db/oct for all channels except the sub... I'd give it a shot, if I could. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## SNEAKY (Jan 19, 2011)

i can dig it.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

SNEAKY said:


> i can dig it.


Thanks 

I've been getting a lot of approval from those that have seen it in person too. Nice to know I didn't screw it up :laugh:

Today after work I stopped by the local JL dealer. The questions I got, in order were 'Did you make this?' Yes. 'Have you ever done this professionally?' No. 'Then, wtf do you do for a living?' Mechanical Engineer. 'Ah, you damn engineers...' Also did some testing with them and ended up pulling the JL amp to send it in for service. I shot the **** with them for about 40 minutes with them after they closed. Nice guys who knew their stuff.

Right now the sub getting 300W RMS from bridged channels 3 and 4 of the bigger Alpine and I have the rear fill disconnected. Not gonna lie, I already don't miss it after just a half hour drive. I played with a few settings and it's better already, nevermind much much more powerful.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

I really like that amp rack. Great way to get that sub in by getting the extra required volume from the 2 sides. Very nice.


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## MassZJ (Jan 7, 2011)

Had a little seat time last night, needs a bit more tuning but is pretty amazing. Glad the rear fill wasnt hooked up, that would have ruined it. :laugh:


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

It could have come out a lot worse, that's for sure. Scott is right though, lots of tuning left to do. He was kind enough to download and rip the Focal demo disks to test with too. Some neat stuff on there. The music isn't all that much fun to listen to, but it's good to use as a stepping stone during tuning and the recordings are top notch quality.

I'm really looking forward to getting my JL amp back and reinstalling it.

I'm going to do some searching of my own, but how do you guys keep the tweeters clean? I'm afraid to touch them with a cloth or blow them off with compressed air. Some sort of very fine dusting tool?


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

So it's been a little while and here's what happened over the last 4ish weeks.

I listened to it. A lot. Got everything set up pretty nicely and I was decently content with the results, but could still find some room for improvement. Messed with the HU's TA settings and got the stage a bit better.

Saturday I got a call that my JL 250/1 amp was back from being serviced. I got a printout of the components they replaced and it said that the amp was in proper working order. Not bad for $130. Last night I ran a 3rd channel of RCA from the HU to the sub amp (so I can control the sub gain & sub timing from the HU) and reinstalled the JL amp. Wow, what a difference. So much more powerful and punchy than the 2 channels of my Alpine bridged. I can honestly say that I'm now pleased with how it sounds; the sub's amp was the weak link before.

I got some Rubber & Vinyl (3M #80) spray on adhesive to hold the B Quiet Vcomp to the door skins... I did a test piece and the stuff held pretty well. Just gotta find some time to take the door skins off and slap them in.

My goal is to have this thing 'done' for the UMass car show (4/30). My to-do list is as follows:

-tidy up wires in the trunk
-finish installing deadening
-make & carpet false floor
-make & carpet the fascia that will go on the top back of the box to hide the spare tire
-graft the tweeters into the sail panels (my first attempt at making speaker pods -eek)
-a little more tuning (just by ear, nothing fancy)

I might have some time this weekend to knock a few of those off the list.


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## neuspeedescort (Feb 23, 2010)

> -graft the tweeters into the sail panels (my first attempt at making speaker pods -eek)


expanding foam or something like it. can go along way before you apply a layer or two of fiberglass then skim with bondo.


NEUMAN


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...e/99167-sail-panel-tweeter-pod-questions.html

ignore the crazy fight stuff, but the info about building sail panels with CA glue is where its at.

this post should help a bit too;

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1077034-post3.html

bing does awesome work, and he makes it look like its not even hard at all lol. i would just say take your time and put the speakers in your car first and listen to the tweeters at different angles before you decided on how to aim them. oh, building sail panels is the same process as outlined above. and bing uses resin, but resin does not stick to plastic very well! but CA glue does, and its way faster and easier. just a tip


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

req said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...e/99167-sail-panel-tweeter-pod-questions.html
> 
> ignore the crazy fight stuff, but the info about building sail panels with CA glue is where its at.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I actually have been following that thread. I was the one who posted the chill pill 

I've never heard of this magical CA glue before, but it sounds like I'd be a fool for not trying it out.

Your comments about Bings work are spot on, without being able to see it in person. He's just like 'oh, I whipped this up' and for the rest of us it would take days/weeks. Reading his installation logs gave me some great ideas for putting mine together the first time. Funny you should mention the STi with a Twist. I cited that as one of the ones I was stealing ideas from in the first post of this thread. I _could_ put the tweeters on the a-pillars... I haven't really listened to them there. And I don't have TA for each individual speaker... argh. I want a Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.3

I've played around with directions a bit and I think I've decided how/where I want them. My first guess was totally off :laugh: I think I'm going to paint my sail panels matte black (to match the factory style).

The thing I've noticed that's the worst about my setup is where the 8's are. I swore I wouldn't cut up my door cards but I'd really love to move them forward.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

thats what im doing. i am relocating the door switches to the door handles to facilitate my 8 inches in the doors. it should be neat.


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## glidn (Apr 21, 2007)

nice good to hear the sub JL amp is working well in it's favour.

Well not that much longer to wait for the rockford fostgate 3sixty.3.
Could also go for JBL MS-8?

been on here longer than golfmkv. lol


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## Carbon_Dave (Nov 7, 2010)

asp87 said:


> Thanks. I actually have been following that thread. I was the one who posted the chill pill
> 
> I've never heard of this magical CA glue before, but it sounds like I'd be a fool for not trying it out.


CA is short for Cyanoacrylate. AKA, Super Glue. 

There are many varieties of CA. Some are thicker which helps keep the glue from running all over the place. There are also "kickers" or accelerators that make the glue set up faster. I find the also help on tough to bond surfaces.

You can find quality CA glue at any hobby shop


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

req said:


> thats what im doing. i am relocating the door switches to the door handles to facilitate my 8 inches in the doors. it should be neat.


I was following along in your thread. I shouldn't need to do that for mine. Are you eliminating the map pocket?


glidn said:


> nice good to hear the sub JL amp is working well in it's favour.
> 
> Well not that much longer to wait for the rockford fostgate 3sixty.3.
> Could also go for JBL MS-8?
> ...


I could... It is tempting. I think I like the RF model better, but I haven't researched the topic to death yet.


Carbon_Dave said:


> CA is short for Cyanoacrylate. AKA, Super Glue.
> 
> There are many varieties of CA. Some are thicker which helps keep the glue from running all over the place. There are also "kickers" or accelerators that make the glue set up faster. I find the also help on tough to bond surfaces.
> 
> You can find quality CA glue at any hobby shop


Ah... All these fancy acronyms. I can't keep track of what each of them are for each hobby I'm interested in.

I've got plenty of experinece with superglue.

I'll get some quality stuff when I go to do the sail panels.

Thanks for the tips


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## hunter660 (Feb 23, 2009)

How are the updates coming? Still using the stock speaker locations in the front doors? Are you happy with them?


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

I guess my big update would be: It's motorcycle season and I drive the car as little as possible.

As far as the sound system, I added some more damping material to the doors and that has helped.

Everything is still working well and I'm happy with the sound. Rear speakers are disconnected and will probably come out at some point...

Could it benefit from moving the 8's forward? Absolutely. Do I feel like I imperatively need to? Not so much. I'm happy with the stock-ish locations of the tweeter and the 4". I wouldn't quite call the tweeter location stock, though it's very close to it.

I never even ended up making a rear deck lid. Yet another case of a temporary fix becoming semi-permanent. I will finish it when other things slow down, but for now, it works and makes my ears happy.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Strange how things change in just a week or so... 

A little bit of an update...

To the door skins, I added B Quiet V-comp held down by both 3M 80 (Rubber & Vinyl) and B Quiet Ultimate. I was blown away by how much this changed the sound and would highly recommend it to anyone. It moved the stage forward and brought out the sound from the 8's a lot.

Original config. You can see on the top corner where it started peeling off the skin and the window would stick to it when rolled down. I figured what better way to hold the damping material up than with more damping material 









Take 2 mostly complete (I actually forgot to take a pic of the final product... oops):









I sandwiched 2 pieces of B Quiet Ultimate sticky side together to seal off behind the 4" speaker as well. It's not perfect, but it's better than having it being open to the back. The small piece in the center is so that the speaker itself doesn't stick to the deadening material. I also applied some deadener to the outside of the door frame and sealed all the holes with it.










I should be finishing this entire project up in the near future. An hour or two here and there... It's sorta the only project on my plate right now. So expect an update or two a week for a bit


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

So it turns out that when you connect a single driver 180* out of phase your soundstage and focus point goes to crap. Woops. All better now with a few upgrades while I was in there. I also think I had too much underlap between the 4" and 8" so I adjusted the xo a little. It's the difference between a faint tuba and wow that tuba sounds great. I'm so happy I went active...

I wrapped some of the B Quiet Vcomp around the 8 and let it stick out a bit so that it acts as a short tube of sorts. I think before, a lot of the sound from the 8 was getting trapped inside the door card. Between this and a few other things they have a lot more presence now.









Finally finished the center console up too. Nice and sleek









I know I already posted an update on the door skins but here's what the passenger side ended up looking like.


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## hunter660 (Feb 23, 2009)

Just put some sound deadening on my front door skins today. Great job.

I'm on a budget and trying to build my car slowly as I go. How do you think the 8" would be if I kept the factory crossovers and powered them with a GT-50 (55 watts)


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

So you are going to cut the wires on the stock harness to use the factory xo? Doable but not what I would want to do. I'm not sure what frequency the stock woofers are crossed at. But it would certainly be a big upgrade from the factory setup.

55W isn't quite enough to get your money's worth out of the rs225s. I have 75W at mine and wish I had either more power and/or custom door cards. If you plan on giving them more power later and that is the first upgrade to your system I think it would be a good temporary solution. Hope that helped. Good luck


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## hunter660 (Feb 23, 2009)

asp87 said:


> So you are going to cut the wires on the stock harness to use the factory xo? Doable but not what I would want to do. I'm not sure what frequency the stock woofers are crossed at. But it would certainly be a big upgrade from the factory setup.
> 
> 55W isn't quite enough to get your money's worth out of the rs225s. I have 75W at mine and wish I had either more power and/or custom door cards. If you plan on giving them more power later and that is the first upgrade to your system I think it would be a good temporary solution. Hope that helped. Good luck


Is there a better crossover I could get? (I'm not ready to put in the $$$ to go active) Different mid-range driver?


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

That's a very loaded question as neither of your proposed ideas are really the 'right' way to do it. The 8" drivers are great and I highly recommend them, it's not an issue with the speaker at all. It's an issue with power and tuning. Also, how do you propose to put 55W to just the 8's using a passive XO?. I think my advice would be to save for a little while longer before pulling the trigger on the gear and get all of what you want at the same time.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Last weekend I finally got around to giving my VW some more attention.

Friday I washed it with a regular soap, Saturday a friend and I clayed the whole car, then applied a sealant. Took a long time but the car has never looked so nice in my ownership.









(The pic is so dark because the car is so bright)

Sunday I tackled the rear speaker issue. They were noisy. Really bad. And one of the woofers wasn't playing. I began by tearing everything apart in the back as I have now done a few times. I took all the old speaker wires for the rear speakers out and ran new ones. Cool, cept one of the woofers still wasn't playing. I narrowed it down to the crossover being the problem. My father is a little more electrical savvy than me and he helped me fix the bad connection on the crossover. It was a little bit of a ghetto repair but hey, it worked. The rear speakers no longer buzz when I turn on my headlights. It's amazing how big of a difference a little oxidation in the wires can make.

Here are a few pictures (I didn't take any of the XO repair or the inside of the pass side)

Added some more damping to the rear panels









New wiring and the tweeter floating in space till it gets connected to the outer panel









I attenuated the tweeter on the XO board by 5 db and also cut down the high frequencies on the rear using my EQ. Mid bass is even more impressive than before, but the focal point of the soundstage isn't as tight as before. I think I might need to play with the TA settings for the rear a little more and maybe drop the gain on the rear speakers another notch. They are already turned down quite a bit. Any tips for getting the focus point tighter while using rear fill?


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Yesterday I went to the meet n greet in Rutland, MA. Goodstuff (Mike), hispls (Jon), derickveliz (Derick), and a few other guys came too.

Got a chance to listen to some other SQ cars for one of the first times and decided a two main things about my setup after hearing theirs.

-my TA settings are way off
-my tweeters needed to be brought out more

Tweeters were previously aimed 90* off axis. I rotated them to be about 60* off axis and a little elevated. It really brightened it up without getting any of the harshness that goodstuff had out of his Vifa XT25's. I also bumped up 6k and 10k on the EQ by about 3 dB. Much happier with the result.

Started messing my TA settings on the drive home too. There's a good chance I'm going to go back to square 1 and start from scratch with that part.

I think I need to get my hands on a few high quality CD's too.

Edit: Forgot to mention that late last week I also spent a few bucks and installed an Alpine AI Net to RCA cable and a RCA to 3.5mm headphone. I know it's not super high quality sound like an uncompressed file from CD, but now I can listen to Pandora through my phone while I drive. With Pandora on its HQ setting it does sound pretty good though. I routed the cable to the center console in the same manner I installed the iPod cable pictured above.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Ok here goes for post number 2000....

Wow, I had no idea those VW door panels came apart like that...Must be sooooo nice for deadening and building enclosures inside the door panel. You cut all that wood straight with no table saw? Skills man, skills. I also wondered where your mid bass was mounted. Now that I see where it is in the door panel, I'm thinking I might have to do some homework to make your t/a shine. Are you running rear fill? Another thing I had no idea about. I'd say lose the rear fill if you want to do t/a properly, you won't need it and it will honestly imho just muddy everything up.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

This model is one of the only doors that does that to my knowledge. It was a huge convenience for not only deadening, but also for running wires. I can't imagine how hard it would have been if the panel wasn't removeable. There's no room to get at the wires where they enter the door from the inside, but it's cake from the outside.

It was a little tricky and took some patience with no table saw but nothing impossible.

What are you thinking for my TA? Is there math involved or just measuring and a little guess work? I could probably cross my 4's and my tweeters a little higher to help make more sound come from one spot.

I have rear fill installed but I had it faded nearly all the way out during yesterday's meet. I didn't install it for me, I installed it for the 5 to 10 times a year I have passengers in the rear seat. Maybe I'll just fade it completely out. I didn't have it connected for months because it was noisy. I put in new speaker wire and reconnected it all last weekend. No more noise when I turn my headlights on.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

asp87 said:


> This model is one of the only doors that does that to my knowledge. It was a huge convenience for not only deadening, but also for running wires. I can't imagine how hard it would have been if the panel wasn't removeable. There's no room to get at the wires where they enter the door from the inside, but it's cake from the outside.
> 
> It was a little tricky and took some patience with no table saw but nothing impossible.
> 
> ...


No math really, it's never worked well that way for me. I just listen for the vocals shifting from left to right. When it goes too far right pull it back towards the center. Fine tune with different recordings. That's why I said I think it will be harder with your h/u since there is a pause when it changes, you have to remember exactly what position it was in before you changed it. That and I've never t/a'ed a three way. We will see.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

I've been doing more and more listening and tweaking using both regular CD's and a Focal test disk. I personally think it sounds better, but I guess that's also what I want to think. The tweeters are now exactly on-axis for the opposite passenger. Well, for a taller passenger anway. Mike, FWIW they're still not harsh.

Also for Mike, thanks again for the pointers on the TA. I tried to take heed of your advice while doing my most recent bit of TA tweaking. I reset everything and started from scratch. Because I have rear fill, I faded all the way to the front and set that first. Then I faded back to center and adjusted the rear fill's TA to the point that it didn't change where the front focal point was. I guess if I had to say what the change is, it made the cabin feel larger. I think I'm going to leave it all like this for a while until I get used to it and/or find an inherent weakness.

Overall it's a lot brighter (it was really dark before - right Derick ) and the focus point is better. Now I feel like I need another set of ears again haha


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## Dimitris (Jan 5, 2012)

Great looking


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## srgates9 (Apr 20, 2012)

I know this thread is pretty old, but I was looking to build a sub box similar to this one in my car. I love the idea of still having the spare tire accessibility with the false floor. Do you happen to know the dimensions of the box? It would make the fabrication of the box go much quicker haha


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

asp87 said:


> It's all gettin there. It's coming out pretty awesome especially considering that we don't have a table saw to work with. We've been clamping a straight edge down and making long cuts with a skill saw.


serious? wow... effort plus!


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

great work, i ended up breaking one of the pins on an molex xonector while trying to get the plastic cover off the b pillar.. then ziptied them so they wont rub.

got a 09 tdi stv myself..


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

srgates9 said:


> I know this thread is pretty old, but I was looking to build a sub box similar to this one in my car. I love the idea of still having the spare tire accessibility with the false floor. Do you happen to know the dimensions of the box? It would make the fabrication of the box go much quicker haha


The outside dimensions were 39.5"x28"x8" ish. There was a fair amount of guess and check on that because I wanted it as tight against the sides and back as possible. And I still ended up having to put that big angle on the part that sits against the back of the seats. I had all the #'s worked out before I started cutting, but it's really one of those things you just have to get to it yourself and see what works and what doesn't. An entire sheet of each 1/2" and 3/4 should be more than enough, even if you account for major screw ups.



sydmonster said:


> serious? wow... effort plus!


Thanks. I guess they don't call it skill saw for no reason.



Noobdelux said:


> great work, i ended up breaking one of the pins on an molex xonector while trying to get the plastic cover off the b pillar.. then ziptied them so they wont rub.
> 
> got a 09 tdi stv myself..


Thanks  yeah those connectors are a pain. I could maybe do it again faster, but I'd still swear just as much.

I don't think I ever posted a final update, but after more than a year I finished the false floor out of 1/2" plywood and covered it in carpet. It's 3 pieces and is removable. It just presses into place.

The only other thing I would do would be sound deadening on the roof but I'm too lazy to pull the whole interior apart again. (Gotta take everything else out to get the headliner down).


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

forgot to say it but it looks damn good.. 
can you remember how you fastend the mid tones in the front door? im going to have to do the same as you it seems, although i got a black plastic cup closing off the outer and inner door panels


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## Z-Roc (Mar 22, 2012)

awesome project


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

do show us the final product if you still have it : )

btw check out my log here http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...noobs-golf-mkv-delux-sq-ish-build-thread.html


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## --Kei-- (Sep 8, 2011)

How do you find those Vifa XT25 tweeters behave off axis? Everything I've been told suggests they need to be on axis to perform at their best.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Noobdelux said:


> forgot to say it but it looks damn good..
> can you remember how you fastend the mid tones in the front door? im going to have to do the same as you it seems, although i got a black plastic cup closing off the outer and inner door panels


1/4" plywood and wood screws. From page 2:



















I later wrapped the back of them in dynamat-like stuff to seal them off.



Z-Roc said:


> awesome project


Thanks!



Noobdelux said:


> do show us the final product if you still have it : )
> 
> btw check out my log here http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...noobs-golf-mkv-delux-sq-ish-build-thread.html


Yep, I definitely still have it. I listen to it almost everyday, though now it's motorcycle season so that happens much less often.

I'll check out your thread, thanks for the link.


--Kei-- said:


> How do you find those Vifa XT25 tweeters behave off axis? Everything I've been told suggests they need to be on axis to perform at their best.


I guess I really do owe a thorough update. I've had them on axis since last August. Much much better on axis than off.

I'll try to snap some quick pics in the next couple days...


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## TwoDrink (Aug 26, 2009)

Great job! I would love to get the chance to hear this some.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Thank you! What part of RI are you in? Come to the meet that Goodstuff is organizing, or we could meet up some time if you are more local...?


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## TwoDrink (Aug 26, 2009)

I'm on the Seekonk line. But really does it matter, you can cross RI the long way in 30mins :laugh:.
I'm going to post for the meet also. Never even thought to look.


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

ah,wrong question asked i guess... : P

what kind of screws did you use to fasten them to the doorcard?


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

TwoDrink said:


> I'm on the Seekonk line. But really does it matter, you can cross RI the long way in 30mins :laugh:.
> I'm going to post for the meet also. Never even thought to look.


Haha, very true.

Well, if you want to hear it some other time, shoot me a PM with your phone # and let's see if we can't figure something out.



Noobdelux said:


> ah,wrong question asked i guess... : P
> 
> what kind of screws did you use to fasten them to the doorcard?


No problem, the factory screws were long enough to reuse for these speakers.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Took some pics with my DSLR...


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

*Awesome!*

can't wait to hear it again!


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## Palos (Feb 12, 2010)

Another awesome hatchback build.


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

ah damnit, i just have the 2 way system in my car : \


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Noobdelux said:


> ah damnit, i just have the 2 way system in my car : \


Yeah, but your woofer is in a much better position than mine. Mine fires right into your hip and a lot of the sound is blocked. The only thing I would change about my set up would be making custom door cards to relocate the 8's to the front of the door.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

asp87 said:


> 1/4" plywood and wood screws. From page 2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How deep are your midranges? i want to add some miss and mont properly in my 2008 Jetta, how much depth do you thing i have to work with in that door?
thanks for help

CC


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

There's not much room for big speakers there. Others have used Rainbows and Hertz with good success and they drop in. For anything much larger, you need to cut the door to clear the magnet and housing. Really not a big deal in my opinion...

These are what I used: Dayton Audio RS100-4 4" Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm 295-378


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

did you have to cut your door?

CC


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Sacrifices must be made.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

um, I'm pretty new at all this, what did you use to cut the door?... 

CC


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

A dremel with a cut off wheel. Buy extra discs, if you've never cut metal you'll be sure to explode a handful before you get the feel of it. And be mindful the direction your sparks go.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

asp87 said:


> Sacrifices must be made.





asp87 said:


> A dremel with a cut off wheel. Buy extra discs, if you've never cut metal you'll be sure to explode a handful before you get the feel of it. And be mindful the direction your sparks go.


Hell yeah. I used some big pieces of cardboard wrapped in tin foil to keep the sparks out of the car when I cut my doors. Where are you at now?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i love the floor layout  

i have heard people say that cutting the door for a mid sometimes throws the airbag warning light cuase it messes with the pressure sensor in the door...hope this isnt the case, keep us updated on the long term.

b


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

simplicityinsound said:


> i love the floor layout
> 
> i have heard people say that cutting the door for a mid sometimes throws the airbag warning light cuase it messes with the pressure sensor in the door...hope this isnt the case, keep us updated on the long term.
> 
> b


Fly out to the meet we are having next weekend bing, you jet set mofo.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

simplicityinsound said:


> i love the floor layout
> 
> i have heard people say that cutting the door for a mid sometimes throws the airbag warning light cuase it messes with the pressure sensor in the door...hope this isnt the case, keep us updated on the long term.
> 
> b


Thank you. That means a lot coming from you- your work is awesome.

...yeaaahh... That might be the case about the airbag warning light. I have an airbag warning light for something on the passenger side, but I'm not sure exactly what is causing it yet. It's one of those things that I'll get to someday.


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## ae0859 (Feb 16, 2012)

Great work there! Your install is my main inspiration as I'm planning on doing a similar trunk layout (08 R32 here). Thanks


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## abdulwq (Aug 17, 2008)

nice fabrication work...


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Thanks for the compliments guys.

I went to the Northeast M&G with goodstuff and derickveliz over the weekend. We tweaked my XO and TA points and readjusted the direction of my tweeters. Got it really sounding awesome. The tweeters were crossed a little below 2kHz @ 12dB/oct. It sounded amazing. So I cranked it. And blew my tweeters.

Old: Vifa XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter 264-1014
New?: Vifa XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter 264-1014

I'm looking for something that isn't going to break the bank, that can handle at least 50W RMS, and that would be reasonably crossed at or below 2kHz. Thanks for any suggestions you may have.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

asp87 said:


> Thanks for the compliments guys.
> 
> I went to the Northeast M&G with goodstuff and derickveliz over the weekend. We tweaked my XO and TA points and readjusted the direction of my tweeters. Got it really sounding awesome. The tweeters were crossed a little below 2kHz @ 12dB/oct. It sounded amazing. So I cranked it. And blew my tweeters.
> 
> ...


Dayton Audio RS28F-4 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter 275-140
Lower FS, higher power handling and sounds great. 

If you like the RR, this one should suit you well: 
Vifa XT25TG30-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter 264-1016 

I know those are big but there's no free lunch... You either get a big faceplate in your price range or pay much more money for a smaller tweeter... To be honest, 2kHz 12dB/oct slope is really low for 90% of the tweeters. 

Kelvin


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions. I actually mis-pasted the "new" link. I meant to paste the Vifa that you linked to. I hadn't seen that Dayton before; it looks really good too. I did some figuring and I think I'll be able to mold something this size into my sail panels without too much trouble. It will probably look a little funny but oh well.

Also of note, I'm not sure if my tweeters are actually blown. They still sound good but crack at high volumes after they have been playing for a little while so I am wondering if I am just overheating them. Either way, they're getting replaced with something bigger/better.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

I know it sounds good with a 2kHz 12dB/oct slope but why not try to up it to 2.5kHz 12dB/oct? 
Try it with your current tweeter and see if you can tune it out. 

Kelvin


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

subwoofery said:


> I know it sounds good with a 2kHz 12dB/oct slope but why not try to up it to 2.5kHz 12dB/oct?
> Try it with your current tweeter and see if you can tune it out.
> 
> Kelvin


Thanks for the advice. I have had it at 2.5k for a few days now and it's definitely not bad, but 2k is better. Crossing them at 2.5 might buy me a lot of extra head room and open up a bunch of smaller tweeters... Decisions Decisions.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

I had hosted the pics on facebook but they must have changed their software and now all of the links are broken. I made the album public. Here are all of the pics:

Facebook

Soundsystem in GTI Photos by aspoirier | Photobucket


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

All the pics in one location: GTI - Imgur

No real updates... I posted the imgur link on reddit and it did well in the DIY, carAV, and audiophile subreddits.

I'm still rocking the Vifa XT-25's but I might revisit that issue soon.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

asp87 said:


> All the pics in one location: GTI - Imgur
> 
> No real updates... I posted the imgur link on reddit and it did well in the DIY, carAV, and audiophile subreddits.
> 
> I'm still rocking the Vifa XT-25's but I might revisit that issue soon.


I thought you blew them?


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

They only crack when I turn it up fairly loud. I haven't been doing that, sadly.

Still need me to weld your seat up?


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

asp87 said:


> They only crack when I turn it up fairly loud. I haven't been doing that, sadly.
> 
> Still need me to weld your seat up?


Not at the moment. I will hit you up in the spring.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Not much of an update, but I fixed the fault causing the airbag light. It was completely unrelated to anything that I did in the doors or to do with the sound system. I've listened to that thing dinging at me every time I turn the car on for the last 2 and a half years. The silence is deafening.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

asp87 said:


> Not much of an update, but I fixed the fault causing the airbag light. It was completely unrelated to anything that I did in the doors or to do with the sound system. I've listened to that thing dinging at me every time I turn the car on for the last 2 and a half years. The silence is deafening.


What was it? Local meet(s) coming up.


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Broken wire in the driver's side seat belt receptacle and had to bypass a connector on each of the seats. VW issued a TSB on the 2nd ones and the seat belt thing took some guessing, multimeter, and vag-com to get figured out.

When/where? I still need to do something about my tweeters too


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## asp87 (Dec 14, 2010)

Airbag light still off, no new electrical gremlins- Anthony: 1, VW: 0.

Fixed the tweeter issue. I'm embarrassed to say what it was, but lucky I didn't blow them. They are now crossed correctly a little below 2kHz and no signs of being overdriven, they were previously getting freqs well below 2kHz. There was a switch flipped on my XO... stupid. Why does it always take me so long to fix the simplest of things?


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## JCJetta (Mar 28, 2013)

Subscribed. Thanks for moving the pics to Reddit. Giving me ideas for what I want to do with my MKV.


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