# MECA World Finals Oct 16-17th. Lebanon, Tn



## ErinH

Info:
http://www.mecacaraudio.com/flyers/10-16-10TN.pdf


Anyone planning on attending this either as a spectator or competitor? 

I'm planning on being there competing. Might not be able to make it depending on my wife's due date, but I've got it in the plans. 

I think this will be a great chance to hear some really great systems, and it seems that with the number of competitors this year, it should be a pretty good turnout. Looking forward to meeting you all...
If anyone wants to chat or hang out, shoot me a PM and I'll give you my contact info. My car will be open to anyone who wants to listen and give me their $.02, so don't hesitate to ask. 

- Erin


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## Ziggy

Might roll up there, Erin... I'll put it on my "evolving calender"


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## David_Edwards

I will be there..


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## chefhow

+1 here


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## Mic10is

on my calendar but not happy w/ the choices for shows to see at the Opry that weekend


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## atsaubrey

I am still debating but would love to come out and spectate and support MECA.


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## KP

Son's 13th birthday is Saturday the 16th so I won't be there.








Until Saturday night.


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## slade1274

Hoping to make it!


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## tintbox

I'm in.


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## schmiddr2

I'll be there if I don't have to work. Would be nice to get some opinions on the new setup.


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## slade1274

After the win today I'm qualified; so count me in


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## ErinH

congrats, Ryan!!!

How'd everyone else do? What was your finals score(s)?


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## scionboxrox

If I bring Rebecca Pidgeon to sing in front of my car at finals do I automatically get a 100?


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## ErinH

no. you automatically get stoned.

bring the stand up bass with you, though... I wanna break that thing.


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## scionboxrox

I am gonna be camping on the grounds during the finals. Anyone in on some good bonfire sq time? Only if it isnt going to rain of course.


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## atsaubrey

Got my flight booked, get in just before 11pm Friday night. Anyone willing to give me a ride?


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## KP

If I was up there on Friday I would be glad to. Did the same thing with Polk a couple years ago.


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## ErinH

I may only come up to get my car judged and turn right back around toward the house. 
Hopefully I'll get to hang out, but we'll see...


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## MacLeod

Feels weird. First finals since 2006 I wont be at.


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## Matt R

MacLeod said:


> Feels weird. First finals since 2006 I wont be at.


Thats lame man, what happened?

I'll be there!!


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## AccordUno

I'll go spectate..


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## MacLeod

Matt R said:


> Thats lame man, what happened?
> 
> I'll be there!!


Money brother and a rather large lack thereof. Never realized how expensive babys were.  

I got a 2nd job a few months ago but by the time I got caught up I didnt have enough time to get my points. 

Ill be back next year. Tossing around the idea of getting a new ride now that Im back to a positive cash flow. Tired of having to compromise the audio system around legroom and space for luggage and strollers and not screwing things up so I cant trade it in a few years. If I trade the wifes car in on something like a 2005 Civic, we can use the new one for grocery gettin' and road trips and stuff and the Civic would be just for me for audio and getting back and forth to work.


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## Matt R

MacLeod said:


> Money brother and a rather large lack thereof. Never realized how expensive babys were.
> 
> I got a 2nd job a few months ago but by the time I got caught up I didnt have enough time to get my points.
> 
> Ill be back next year. Tossing around the idea of getting a new ride now that Im back to a positive cash flow. Tired of having to compromise the audio system around legroom and space for luggage and strollers and not screwing things up so I cant trade it in a few years. If I trade the wifes car in on something like a 2005 Civic, we can use the new one for grocery gettin' and road trips and stuff and the Civic would be just for me for audio and getting back and forth to work.


I get it, work has been slow here too.


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## slade1274

Totally flaked on concert dates- Eagles concert is on Friday, so it's going to be a rough day Saturday driving up in the morning!


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## ErinH

where is the show? Phillips Arena in ATL or elsewhere?
I wanted to see them the last time they came through for their 'long road out of eden' tour, but I wasn't willing to plop down $500 on a pair of decent seats.
Wife and I considered going to this round but she ain't going to an Eagles concert 36wks pregnant. lol.


I gotta start tuning, man! I haven't even started yet!


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## scionboxrox

Uh oh! You better get to it! Nah, it sounds great as-is. I got some tuning in between exams. It is coming along ok so far.


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## ErinH

my car has gremlins. what can I say?




I'm more worried about trying to clean up the dash than tuning. I've got my color matched paint in. Now I just have to find the time.


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## highly

Looks like I am not going to make it to Finals. Country Inn and Suites tells me that the room I purchased is nonrefundable, however, so I have a room up for offer going cheap!

Fri Oct 15 2010 - Mon Oct 18 2010 (3 Nights)
1 King Bed
Smoking
Exec Rm-Desk-Hi Speed Net-Sfbd-Fridge
Fri Oct 15 2010	84.00 US Dollar (USD) plus Tax for 1 night
Sat Oct 16 2010	63.75 US Dollar (USD) plus Tax for 1 night
Sun Oct 17 2010	63.00 US Dollar (USD) plus Tax for 1 night

Total after taxes was about 240. Make me an offer?
I've verified that all I have to do is give them your name and it's done. If I get 180 out of it I'll be happy and won't have to just eat the entire cost! 

Shoot me an offer!
-Todd


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## slade1274

bikinpunk said:


> where is the show? Phillips Arena in ATL or elsewhere?
> I wanted to see them the last time they came through for their 'long road out of eden' tour, but I wasn't willing to plop down $500 on a pair of decent seats.
> Wife and I considered going to this round but she ain't going to an Eagles concert 36wks pregnant. lol.
> 
> 
> I gotta start tuning, man! I haven't even started yet!


Piedmont park:

Piedmont Park Conservancy

And no comment about ticket cost...... :surprised:


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## ErinH

slade1274 said:


> Piedmont park:
> 
> Piedmont Park Conservancy
> 
> And no comment about ticket cost...... :surprised:


Joe Walsh is a pimp.
I'd go just to hear him do "Rocky Mountain Way". 
srsly

The Eagles' "Hell Freezes Over Tour" was the first concert I ever saw and it was in Clemson Stadium. My parents took me for my 13th birthday. I still have the tour shirt.


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## trigg007

highly said:


> Looks like I am not going to make it to Finals. -Todd



Been "Watching" your storey...That really sucks. :worried:


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## ErinH

has everyone registered yet? I think registration ends tomorrow?
MECA > Home


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## chefhow

bikinpunk said:


> has everyone registered yet? I think registration ends tomorrow?
> MECA > Home


Yes I have!! I'm surprised more ppl havent yet.


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## highly

chefhow said:


> Yes I have!! I'm surprised more ppl havent yet.


That just means the odds are good...




even if the goods are odd.


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## MacLeod

Itll fill out. The list is usually pretty small til a couple days out from the show. That is if you can actually check it. Usually takes me 15 tries to get into the forums.  Ever since they went to the new forum, its a major PITA to check it often.

59 total cars so far so I hope it fills out a lot more. We had 50 in SQ alone last year.


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## slade1274

chefhow said:


> Yes I have!! I'm surprised more ppl havent yet.


Bwahahaha.... I'm officially in. Should be a tough class!


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## KP

This gets someone every year but I won't say any names. (Lee B.)

A reminder that all vehicles, except Radical X, require proof of insurance and registration.
Please make sure you bring these papers to Finals.
Bring them with you when you pick up your registration, please.
Thanks


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## Niebur3

bikinpunk said:


> Info:
> http://www.mecacaraudio.com/flyers/10-16-10TN.pdf
> 
> 
> Anyone planning on attending this either as a spectator or competitor?
> 
> I'm planning on being there competing. Might not be able to make it depending on my wife's due date, but I've got it in the plans.
> 
> I think this will be a great chance to hear some really great systems, and it seems that with the number of competitors this year, it should be a pretty good turnout. Looking forward to meeting you all...
> If anyone wants to chat or hang out, shoot me a PM and I'll give you my contact info. My car will be open to anyone who wants to listen and give me their $.02, so don't hesitate to ask.
> 
> - Erin


I wish MECA was around here (only USACi) or they would work it out so points are points no matter with organization the competition was sponsored by. Oh, and that I didn't have a fricken broken ankle, I would have love to be invited (invited to USACi finals and can't go) and especially here your car and some others. I love to listen to everyones car at those things and try to talk to everyone. Have fun and Good Luck!!!!


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## ErinH

AcuraTLSQ said:


> This gets someone every year but I won't say any names. (Lee B.)
> 
> A reminder that all vehicles, except Radical X, require proof of insurance and registration.
> Please make sure you bring these papers to Finals.
> Bring them with you when you pick up your registration, please.
> Thanks


What?!

how am I gonna get that?! I killed the owner of my car during the robbery. 

Well, crap... count me out of the show, then. I wonder if I can get a refund on the registration fee. 

*kicks dirt*


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## highly

bikinpunk said:


> What?!
> 
> how am I gonna get that?! I killed the owner of my car during the robbery.
> 
> Well, crap... count me out of the show, then. I wonder if I can get a refund on the registration fee.
> 
> *kicks dirt*


Dude, that's what PCs are FOR! Whip yourself something up in Photoshop all quick-like and bring it along. What are they gonna do...run your plate?


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## Niebur3

What a weird rule? I understand the registration, but you have to show insurance??? For what??? Incase the SPL side caused the roof to fall in or sets the place on fire (there is some scary **** over there)!


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## ramos

The insurance is in case Steve Cook and Dave Brooks decide to give demo's at the same time.


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## KP

74 SQ entries and climbing. A couple SQ classes with 10+. Interesting. Didn't take the time to count SPL but it looks well over 100. About 15 for the show & show. At least it is a Car AUDIO Competition with a Car Show and not a Car Show with Audio.


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## MacLeod

That is awesome!!! Looks like this will be MECA's best finals ever. 

I wonder if theyll move finals a little further west next year to try and draw in more of our western brethren? Seems like all the California shows were a big hit so I wouldnt be surprised if finals werent in Nashville next year.


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## ErinH

just to get a handle on this, does anyone know how many cars have entered the past few years?


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## KP

Still early but the weather is looking perfect. Upper 70's, all sun.


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## ErinH

i'm tryin' ta get mah tune on today. 


I'd love to get the car washed and waxed before then, but I don't have the time nor the supplies. Don't happen to know a good place in Huntsville do you, Kirk? Maybe I could drop the car off and have one of my co-workers pick me up and drop me back off.


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## MacLeod

bikinpunk said:


> just to get a handle on this, does anyone know how many cars have entered the past few years?


I cant remember exact numbers but I know we'd had over 100 total since 2006. We had in the mid 40's every year in SQ and I think we had right at 50 last year in SQ.


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## ErinH

wow, then that is quite a hike! 

should be a blast.
you coming as a spectator?



Everyone... better start tuning and quit building (ahem... LEE! ).


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## sqcomp

I'm flying in from Oregon on the 15th to be a spectator. You peeps better put on a good show! 

Erin better be pole dancing or something...


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## ErinH

it'll be nice to meet you in person. 
I can't promise anything more than a strip tease. 


I'm not planning on showing up until Sunday at the moment. Not sure I'll want to drive up and come back on two different days with the wife being pregnant. But, we'll see.


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## ErinH

uppage for a reminder.


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## slade1274

bikinpunk said:


> uppage for a reminder.


Shouldn't you be working.


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## ErinH

^ you gotta poop every now and again. 


I'll be there on Sunday only. See you guys bright and early!

edit: here's the schedule for both days in case anyone else missed it. thanks, Howard, for letting me know there is a schedule. otherwise I would have been late! 

*Saturday (October 16, 2010)*
7:30 AM Vehicle Roll-in
8:30 AM Competitors' Meeting
9:00 AM Show Opens
9:00 AM SQL SQ/Installation Judging Begins (SQ: Stock, Street, Modfied Street, Modfied)
9:30 AM Sound Pressure Qualifying Begins
1:00 PM MECA Kids
1:45 PM Drive-by SPL Parade Qualifying Begins
6:00 PM Show Closes
8:00 PM Ride The Light Neon Judging
*
Sunday (October 17, 2010)*
8:00 AM Vehicle Roll-in
8:30 AM Competitors' Meeting
9:00 AM Show Opens
9:00 AM SQL SQ/Installation Judging Continues (SQ: Modex, Extreme, Master)
9:30 AM SPL Finals (Top 3 in each class)
10:00 AM Show & Shine Judging
1:00 PM Drive-by SPL Parade Finals (Top 3 in each class)
3:00 PM RTA Freq-Out Judging
4:00 PM BBQ
5:30 PM Trophy Presentation Begins
7:00 PM Show Closes


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## KP

You there bright and early? WTFE!

That schedule is not the same one I saw. Couldn't find it on the site now.

Extreme and SQ2 are Saturday last I heard.


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## atsaubrey

Come to find out, I fly out 8 hours AFTER my room mate leaves to come back home. Anyone still around on Monday willing to give me a ride to the airport about 1pm on Monday?


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## ErinH

AcuraTLSQ said:


> You there bright and early? WTFE!
> 
> That schedule is not the same one I saw. Couldn't find it on the site now.
> 
> Extreme and SQ2 are Saturday last I heard.


yea.... I'm scared of getting up early on the weekend. what's the point? 

that's the schedule i got in the email notifying me I had qualified for finals.


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## pyropoptrt

bikinpunk said:


> Everyone... better start tuning and quit building (ahem... LEE! ).


Just saw this! What's wrong with building before finals??!?!? Last I recall you've been doing the same!


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## sundownz

I'll be there hanging out again this year -- once again didn't get enough points to compete, but it's all good


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## Mic10is

Finals needs to be moved another week...no time to finish....100% rain isnt helping when I leave in 7hours


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## Scott P

The camry is done, and thus I'll be debuting and going for title number 2. Also, looking at the list of competitors this year in sq, there is absolutely no argument that meca will be the premiere finals. almost every class is absolutely stacked!


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## ErinH

Scott, what class are you in?
My class (modex) is going to be rough.


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## CraigE

Looks like some great weather.
Good luck to everyone.


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## ncv6coupe

I'm leaving at 1 am to be there before judging begins tomorrow so hope I can meet most of you's guys.


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## Oliver

*Good Luck*, _Bikin !_


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## ErinH

Thanks, Jim!
I'm packing up stuff right now. I'm not looking forward to waking up at 6am, though. 


Any of you guys there care to say how it went today?


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## DAT

Good Luck to everyone and hopefully I make it today to meet many DIYMA members.


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## Mirage_Man

Wish I could have made it up there to meet you guys. Good luck to everyone!


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## ncv6coupe

Ahh anybody here at the site? If I listen to one more car burp I'm gonna scream, then again they are about to start their judging now. Ugh


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## Oliver

bbrrrAAAAAAAPPPPP ! 142.03 [ nice for a single EIGHT }


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## Mirage_Man

So did any DIYMA members do well?


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## Oliver

No w3rd yet


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## DAT

Hope everyone did really well.

Not sure how everyone did but I didn't make but sent my Camera up for video and another for PICS with a friend.. he just got back and I'm looking at the Pics now, and IMHO the finals didn't look very fun. Probably the worst I have seen. Lots of quality cars but nothing like the finals I have seen in the past year or so.

He said he seen Erin's Civic, and Steve Cook, American Radio cars, Steve Mcintrye, and some others but other than that not much to view.


But regardless It would have probably been more entertaining if you were doing the show.

So how did everyone do?


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## Velozity

Still sitting in the awards ceremony. No Finals awards have been given out yet...


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## Mirage_Man

Velozity said:


> Still sitting in the awards ceremony. No Finals awards have been given out yet...


Can't wait to hear the results.


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## CraigE

There should be a live feed available on the MECA website :computer:


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## Velozity

Mic Wallace (mic10is)- 1st extreme sql, 3rd sq2, sportsmanship award
Erin Hardison (bikinpunk)- 3rd modex sql
Howard Cantor (chefhow)- 3rd street sql
Ryan Slade (slade1274)- 4th street sql
Michael Douglas (velozity)- 5th street sql


GO TEAM DIYMA!


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## Rick Sellers

Who were the winners in each class?


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## DAT

Just a few PICS he took.....


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## ErinH

DAT said:


> Hope everyone did really well.
> 
> Not sure how everyone did but I didn't make but sent my Camera up for video and another for PICS with a friend.. he just got back and I'm looking at the Pics now, and IMHO the finals didn't look very fun. Probably the worst I have seen. Lots of quality cars but nothing like the finals I have seen in the past year or so.


Totally not true. Probably the best year for finals in quite a few years. Should've shown up, man! Was a total blast. Best time I've had in a long time and there were TONS of cars there. All top notch. My class was stacked full of excellent cars and I know the others were, too. 

Thanks to the judges and Mr. Stern, as well, for putting on a great event and allowing us to all enjoy the hobby together.
Congrats and thanks to all my friends. I had a great time hanging out with you guys... always fun and enjoyable for me. Hope to see you all again next year at a show or my GTG. 


Edit: 
I can only speak for modex results:
1) Gary Summers. Awesome sounding car. Best detail (high end resolution) I've ever heard in a car. Great guy, too. Very approachable. Just a cool dude. Wish he lived in 'bama. Cali is a looooooooong way.
2) Steve Cook. Didn't hear his car today, but it's always badass so I'm not surprised he got here.
3) Me (erin). This guy gave everyone the shyt tune. After judging. Accidentally. Although, some people did get to hear it before the issue happened. Stupid rcas! 
4) Jorge Delgado
5) Brian (Genxxx). Didn't get to listen to this. Still kicking myself. Dude's a great guy, though. I hope to see him around the shows more often. 

I'll post up pictures tomorrow when I get some sleep. I'm tired.


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## TREETOP

Velozity said:


> Mic Wallace (mic10is)- 1st extreme sql, 3rd sq2, sportsmanship award
> Erin Hardison (bikinpunk)- 3rd modex sql
> Howard Cantor (chefhow)- 3rd street sql
> Ryan Slade (slade1274)- 4th street sql
> Michael Douglas (velozity)- 5th street sql
> 
> 
> GO TEAM DIYMA!


Awesome, congrats guys! 
I'll try to make it next year.


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## Mic10is

great meeting everyone. Good time this weekend. Great event. Very Spread out so size was misleading to many people.
Need Sleep.


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## ErinH

pictures...

Mark Eldridge's car was awesome to see in person. And it sounds like a beast (at least outside the car), when he fires it up. 

Pictures below are of Steve McIntyre's Magnum, Kirk's trunk, Steve Cook's truck, Brian's Truck, Gary Summers' Mercedes (with all the alpine f1 gear) and random other shots (I think Chad was there with his civic).

There was probably about 30 SQ cars under this cover today, which were all being judged. The others who went yesterday were scattered about. The SQ guys were there in strong numbers, though.


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## ErinH




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## ErinH




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## ncv6coupe

U guys want sleep, I'm the one who's been driving since yesterday and still got 100 more miles to go. Had fun lots of fun actually. Now time to go in on the other guys!! Great job. Everyone!!!!


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## chefhow

What a great weekend!!! 3rd place in Street and I couldn't have lost to two better cars. Congrats to Matt D on his win!!! 
Heard some amazing cars, met some great ppl, and witnessed some crazy huge SPL numbers. Time for a bit of a break...


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## DAT

bikinpunk said:


> Totally not true. Probably the best year for finals in quite a few years. Should've shown up, man! Was a total blast. Best time I've had in a long time and there were TONS of cars there. All top notch. My class was stacked full of excellent cars and I know the others were, too.


Well I wish could have I really wanted to meet quite a few of the DIYMA guys. 

Wait for the results as the MECA site will take a few days I'm sure...


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## DAT

bikinpunk said:


>



So can anyone label these guys... just so I can put a face to a name ?


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## highly

I recognize Erin on the left and Howard second from the right... I am assuming that's Mic on the far right behind the red ladder...errr trophy? 

I haven't seen any pics that indicate if there was a silver GT-R there. After all the ...creative points management... to get there I'd be very surprised if the car didn't make it. Would have been a Modified car full of Focal gear.


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## Oliver

*Congratulations*_ to everyone !!_


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## chefhow

She wasn't there Todd, and I was surprised.
In the pic u have from L-R
Erin- bikinpunk
Mike - Velozity
Ryan - slade1274
Mike - tintbox
Howard - chefhow
Mic - mic10is


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## Melodic Acoustic

First I would like to say congrats to all the Team DIYMA members and their placement, great job guys way to go.

Next I would like to say congrats to the Team H-Audio/Audible Physics for all their hard work. I would just like to Thank you for all your support and taken the chance on a basically unknown brand when there was many more well known and great brands you could have chosen. So THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart. Also thank you to all how support H-Audio/Audible Physics in this less then a year in business in the US. I will do my best to give back when I can and support my DIYMA family as much as I possible can.

Now to my soldiers that was in the trenches all season:

*Howard (Chefhow): East Coast

Zach (Boostdrex): West Coast
*
You two gentlemen made it happen this season. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication. With 2 state titles and a 3 places finish for Howard at the World Finals in his first season of competing great job. The future holds nothing but greatness for you 2 gentlemen. I will be here to support you guys and the rest of the team in any and every way my resources will allow.


*To Micheal (Velozity):*

Micheal is Team H-Audio/Audible Physics newest member. He joined the team a couples weeks before the finals. For a system that had less then a week up and running and tune time, I have to say great job sir on your placement at the finals, 5th place out of 11 cars in your class is more then respectable, just think what you may have done with more time! I heard nothing but great things about your system sir, It will only get better.

This is season was I feel things out season. Next season will see more Team members in the lanes as some team members could get in the lanes as plan for what ever reason and all understandable and that includes me. But next I prey and hope we have amazing run. And again I will be here to support my Team in any and every way my resources will allow.

Special Thanks To:

*Ryan (Slade1274) and Chris (Hillbilly)*

You 2 guys also got it start for me. Getting out to the G2G's and letting people here yours systems. It out more people eyes to H-Audio/Audible Physics had to offer and that we were worthy to be mention in the same breath as the best out there. So Thank you guys.

And to everyone else that has spread the word about H-Audio/Audible Physics with word of month and reviews. Thank you for you honest and un-bias opinions, bad or good, it just helps us make a better product. I will do my best to give back to my DIYMA family when resources allow. You guys has support H-Audio/Audible Physics and for that i Thank You and will do my best to support/give back to you.


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## sundownz

Had a good time -- I didn't look at the SQ section much as I was busy in SPL but I went out drinking with some SQ guys *laughs*


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## mmiller

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> First I would like to say congrats to all the Team DIYMA members and their placement, great job guys way to go.
> 
> Next I would like to say congrats to the Team H-Audio/Audible Physics for all their hard work. I would just like to Thank you for all your support and taken the chance on a basically unknown brand when there was many more well known and great brands you could have chosen. So THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart. Also thank you to all how support H-Audio/Audible Physics in this less then a year in business in the US. I will do my best to give back when I can and support my DIYMA family as much as I possible can.
> 
> Now to my soldiers that was in the trenches all season:
> 
> *Howard (Chefhow): East Coast
> 
> Zach (Boostdrex): West Coast
> *
> You two gentlemen made it happen this season. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication. With 2 state titles and a 3 places finish for Howard at the World Finals in his first season of competing great job. The future holds nothing but greatness for you 2 gentlemen. I will be here to support you guys and the rest of the team in any and every way my resources will allow.
> 
> 
> *To Micheal (Velozity):*
> 
> Micheal is Team H-Audio/Audible Physics newest member. He joined the team a couples weeks before the finals. For a system that had less then a week up and running and tune time, I have to say great job sir on your placement at the finals, 5th place out of 11 cars in your class is more then respectable, just think what you may have done with more time! I heard nothing but great things about your system sir, It will only get better.
> 
> This is season was I feel things out season. Next season will see more Team members in the lanes as some team members could get in the lanes as plan for what ever reason and all understandable and that includes me. But next I prey and hope we have amazing run. And again I will be here to support my Team in any and every way my resources will allow.
> 
> Special Thanks To:
> 
> *Ryan (Slade1274) and Chris (Hillbilly)*
> 
> You 2 guys also got it start for me. Getting out to the G2G's and letting people here yours systems. It out more people eyes to H-Audio/Audible Physics had to offer and that we were worthy to be mention in the same breath as the best out there. So Thank you guys.
> 
> And to everyone else that has spread the word about H-Audio/Audible Physics with word of month and reviews. Thank you for you honest and un-bias opinions, bad or good, it just helps us make a better product. I will do my best to give back to my DIYMA family when resources allow. You guys has support H-Audio/Audible Physics and for that i Thank You and will do my best to support/give back to you.




Nice Work Guys!!!!!!!!


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## AccordUno

I guess I should have went Sunday instead.. I talked to a few of you on Saturday (Red Beyma Hat and Airborne Wings t-shirt).. Got a chance to only hear one car.. Maybe next time.. Great seeing some old faces, maybe I'll get out a little more and hit a few shows..


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## DAT

Awesome Job... 

From watching some of the video I have it seems ( I'm guessing ) Chefhow's Volvo was down the hill under another tent with a few other nice cars and trucks. While most of the other guys were in the tent at the top with Erin, and the others. Very impressive cars from the video everywhere... just looks more spread out than most of the finals I have been too.



Who drove the black or gunmetal with blue led amp rack and Audison/Hertz equipment?

Also anyone know the guy from Indiana that had the TEAM RAW DAWG car with AudioControl EQS?

Just trying to put names -faces- & cars together.


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## Melodic Acoustic

DAT said:


> Awesome Job...
> 
> From watching some of the video I have it seems ( I'm guessing ) Chefhow's Volvo was down the hill under another tent with a few other nice cars and trucks. While most of the other guys were in the tent at the top with Erin, and the others. Very impressive cars from the video everywhere... just looks more spread out than most of the finals I have been too.
> 
> 
> 
> Who drove the black or gunmetal with blue led amp rank and Audison/Hertz equipment?
> 
> Also anyone know the guy from Indiana that had the TEAM RAW DAWG car with AudioControl EQS?
> 
> Just trying to put names -faces- & cars together.


The hertz/audison equipped car you speak of sound likes Ryan (Slade1274) WRX STI.


----------



## DAT

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> The hertz/audison equipped car you speak of sound likes Ryan (Slade1274) WRX STI.



You are correct Sir !

I found more of his car and this one has his business cards on the side











 Very Nice~


----------



## ErinH

my wife asked me last night if I was "done with the car" now. My reply: nope.



I must say, out of all the cars I listened to, I thought Mike's (Velozity) was the best one. It may not have been the most technically accurate (I noticed a couple slight shifts here and there) but the tonality was awesome. The lower/upper midrange was buttery smooth and sounded very realistic to me. Not overly bright or too thin. Just really neutral and well balanced. The best part (to me) was that he was using the doors for his midbasses and there was never any pull to them at all, even cranked. The kick drum is the best I've ever heard in his car. To have midbasses in the doors and for me to say that... well, to me, that says a whole lot.
I told him I'd absolutely drive that thing home with me. I might bump up 1-2.5k about a dB to get some more attack, but that's all I would have done. Great sounding car, Mike. Great!


----------



## Velozity

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> First I would like to say congrats to all the Team DIYMA members and their placement, great job guys way to go.
> 
> Next I would like to say congrats to the Team H-Audio/Audible Physics for all their hard work. I would just like to Thank you for all your support and taken the chance on a basically unknown brand when there was many more well known and great brands you could have chosen. So THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart. Also thank you to all how support H-Audio/Audible Physics in this less then a year in business in the US. I will do my best to give back when I can and support my DIYMA family as much as I possible can.
> 
> Now to my soldiers that was in the trenches all season:
> 
> *Howard (Chefhow): East Coast
> 
> Zach (Boostdrex): West Coast
> *
> You two gentlemen made it happen this season. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication. With 2 state titles and a 3 places finish for Howard at the World Finals in his first season of competing great job. The future holds nothing but greatness for you 2 gentlemen. I will be here to support you guys and the rest of the team in any and every way my resources will allow.
> 
> 
> *To Micheal (Velozity):*
> 
> Micheal is Team H-Audio/Audible Physics newest member. He joined the team a couples weeks before the finals. For a system that had less then a week up and running and tune time, I have to say great job sir on your placement at the finals, 5th place out of 11 cars in your class is more then respectable, just think what you may have done with more time! I heard nothing but great things about your system sir, It will only get better.
> 
> This is season was I feel things out season. Next season will see more Team members in the lanes as some team members could get in the lanes as plan for what ever reason and all understandable and that includes me. But next I prey and hope we have amazing run. And again I will be here to support my Team in any and every way my resources will allow.
> 
> Special Thanks To:
> 
> *Ryan (Slade1274) and Chris (Hillbilly)*
> 
> You 2 guys also got it start for me. Getting out to the G2G's and letting people here yours systems. It out more people eyes to H-Audio/Audible Physics had to offer and that we were worthy to be mention in the same breath as the best out there. So Thank you guys.
> 
> And to everyone else that has spread the word about H-Audio/Audible Physics with word of month and reviews. Thank you for you honest and un-bias opinions, bad or good, it just helps us make a better product. I will do my best to give back to my DIYMA family when resources allow. You guys has support H-Audio/Audible Physics and for that i Thank You and will do my best to support/give back to you.





Mark, I am humbled sir. Thank you very much for your comments here. The XR6.5M is an amazing speaker, and I will post a review up sometime later this week.

To Chef, Mic (and wife), Jason, Slade, Mike, Krell, Erin, and Roy, you guys (and girl) are the best team of banana squeezers a guy could ever ask for! I had a blast!!


----------



## Velozity

bikinpunk said:


> my wife asked me last night if I was "done with the car" now. My reply: nope.
> 
> 
> 
> I must say, out of all the cars I listened to, I thought Mike's (Velozity) was the best one. It may not have been the most technically accurate (I noticed a couple slight shifts here and there) but the tonality was awesome. The lower/upper midrange was buttery smooth and sounded very realistic to me. Not overly bright or too thin. Just really neutral and well balanced. The best part (to me) was that he was using the doors for his midbasses and there was never any pull to them at all, even cranked. The kick drum is the best I've ever heard in his car. To have midbasses in the doors and for me to say that... well, to me, that says a whole lot.
> I told him I'd absolutely drive that thing home with me. I might bump up 1-2.5k about a dB to get some more attack, but that's all I would have done. Great sounding car, Mike. Great!




*tears* *sniff, sniff* :blush:

Thanks Erin!!!!!!


----------



## tintbox

Good times this weekend. It was a pleasure meeting you all. Ditto on Velozity Ride! A real pleasure to listen to.


----------



## chefhow

Velozity said:


> To Chef, Mic (and wife), Jason, Slade, Mike, Krell, Erin, and Roy, you guys (and girl) are the best team of banana squeezers a guy could ever ask for! I had a blast!!


That's just WRONG, but it was a great time. Poor girl...


----------



## Electrodynamic

DAT said:


> You are correct Sir !
> 
> I found more of his car and this one has his business cards on the side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very Nice~


Yes indeed, that install is fantastic! 

Congrats to everyone that's on this forum that placed at finals! In particular I'd like to congratulate Zach and Ryan! Ryan, I might be able to make it to the NC meet this weekend but I won't be driving my car (two ignition coils went out on it this past week - yay! ).


----------



## thehatedguy

Why did the HAT team not show?


----------



## ErinH

you'd have to ask them that. I have no idea. I heard they went to usac finals. guess they just chose that venue over this one. 

Brian was there, though. But AFAIK, he was the only one.


----------



## thehatedguy

USACi? Really?

That's weaksauce if that's the case.


----------



## highly

thehatedguy said:


> USACi? Really?
> 
> That's weaksauce if that's the case.


Hybrid Audio is no longer an officially recognized MECA team. Not my place to go into the whys and wherefores on that, just providing the fact. Brian (genxx) was, as far as I know, the only HAT team member at MECA finals. Everyone else that competed did indeed go to Shreveport for USACi.

I stayed home and replaced a head and timing belt.


----------



## David_Edwards

thehatedguy said:


> USACi? Really?
> 
> That's weaksauce if that's the case.



We have our reasons...I will leave it at that. 


Congrats to all the winners!


----------



## 6APPEAL

Congrats Erin. I hope to do double duty next season in USACi and MECA, but we'll see how that works out. $$$'s and time!

Dave - Team Hybrids was well represented at USACi. Some super sounding systems there. Chris Lacombe's system really shined. I only beat him by 1 point in Mod Q. Now what do I have to do to get some of your demo discs???? Great collection of demo material there. Too bad JSke couldn't come, but I agree with Todd that home was where he needed to be. Hope it works out for him. I wanted to steal the tag off the front of the GN for my GN.:laugh:

Todd's crew from Team TCA were fantastic competitors.

Congrats to the rest of the guys that placed.


----------



## Boostedrex

highly said:


> Hybrid Audio is no longer an officially recognized MECA team. Not my place to go into the whys and wherefores on that, just providing the fact.


That really is too bad. I was looking forward to going up against some of them next season. But best wishes to Team Hybrid in whatever org they choose to compete in. I've met nothing but great guys from that camp.

Congrats to everyone on the placing!!!! 

Thank you to Mark Brooks for having faith in us this year and for all your help. Couldn't have done it without you bro. I just hate that I wasn't able to make it to Finals. Next season for sure!!

WAY TO GO HOWARD!!!!!!! Good stuff!!


----------



## ErinH

if we're giving out thanks, I have to thank my team mates on both Diyma and Schil. All a great group of guys who helped me learn more about audio in the past year than ever before. Getting up and outside and listening to other cars and people's suggestions sure beats sitting on the forums and trying to decipher what someone really means when they suggest trying something. I highly encourage anyone to come out to future shows, even if you aren't there to compete. I know myself and many other competitors would love to demo our cars and chat audio with anyone who is interested so don't be shy. Come on out and hit us up! 

Thanks to all my non team members, too. Everyone who has attended my GTG, chatted with me on the phone, or just shared emails with me: I appreciate it. 

Like I said earlier, I hope to see you all at some shows next year or at my next GTG in early Spring.

- Erin


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

bikinpunk said:


> if we're giving out thanks, I have to thank my team mates on both Diyma and Schil. All a great group of guys who helped me learn more about audio in the past year than ever before. Getting up and outside and listening to other cars and people's suggestions sure beats sitting on the forums and trying to decipher what someone really means when they suggest trying something. I highly encourage anyone to come out to future shows, even if you aren't there to compete. I know myself and many other competitors would love to demo our cars and chat audio with anyone who is interested so don't be shy. Come on out and hit us up!
> 
> Thanks to all my non team members, too. Everyone who has attended my GTG, chatted with me on the phone, or just shared emails with me: I appreciate it.
> 
> Like I said earlier, I hope to see you all at some shows next year or at my next GTG in early Spring.
> 
> - Erin


Love you too pretty feet. Your home girl across the street from me, is still awaiting your call:laugh:


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Boostedrex said:


> That really is too bad. I was looking forward to going up against some of them next season. But best wishes to Team Hybrid in whatever org they choose to compete in. I've met nothing but great guys from that camp.
> 
> Congrats to everyone on the placing!!!!
> 
> Thank you to Mark Brooks for having faith in us this year and for all your help. Couldn't have done it without you bro. I just hate that I wasn't able to make it to Finals. Next season for sure!!
> 
> WAY TO GO HOWARD!!!!!!! Good stuff!!


No thanks need sir, You guys got it done. Without people such as you guys and the community around forums like DIYMA, I and other new manufacture would not stand a chance to succeed. So No sir THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DAT

Anyone have the 2010 rule book for MECA... Need to check out some rules and the link isn't working for me on my computer

http://www.mecacaraudio.com/2010rulebook/2010sqlrulesfull.pdf

*[email protected]*


thanks guys and I look forward to going up against some of you next year.


----------



## BigRed

Boostedrex said:


> That really is too bad. I was looking forward to going up against some of them next season. But best wishes to Team Hybrid in whatever org they choose to compete in. I've met nothing but great guys from that camp.
> 
> Bring it Zach! I'll be around  Maybe I'll finally get to listen to your ride  lol
> a;sdlkfsd;alkjfasd


Cain for the win!!


----------



## Boostedrex

Bring it Jim.  And I'm not sure who's going to win this one yet.


----------



## CraigE

Scores are up on MECA Site


----------



## Mirage_Man

CraigE said:


> Scores are up on MECA Site


Where are the most recent scores? Are they the ones listed on the right hand side of the home page?


----------



## CraigE

Go to events at the top.
On the drop down -click event/show schedule.
At the bottom of the list -click results.
Once on that page -click SQL.


----------



## ErinH

to those of you who competed: what was your score from Zenner and how far off was he from the other judges? 

I'm trying to get a feel for what they guy is after. His comments on my sheet are the polar opposite of what most judges have said in the past and he docked me in areas where I excelled at with the others. So, I'm just trying to get a feel for him. Since Mic is a friend of his and Howard/Mic have a similar tune, I have an idea of what he's after, but still curious to see what he gave others. 

Thanks


----------



## DAT

Anyone listen to SHOCKWAVE ?

Thoughts?


----------



## David_Edwards

Boostedrex said:


> That really is too bad. I was looking forward to going up against some of them next season. But best wishes to Team Hybrid in whatever org they choose to compete in. I've met nothing but great guys from that camp.


Not to say that we might have a few cars in MECA next year but we are putting our focus on IASCA and USACi more so now.


----------



## Oliver

Is it harder to *stay at the top* , than it is to *rise to the top* ?

What It Takes To Be Number One | Simple Truths

_Who has reigned the longest?_
*
Like year after year ?*


----------



## DAT

thehatedguy said:


> Why did the HAT team not show?


There were a few HAT top SQ cars, but I don't think they won their class. Regardless they were excellent just were edged out by the judges ears.


----------



## chefhow

DAT said:


> There were a few HAT top SQ cars, but I don't think they won their class. Regardless they were excellent just were edged out by the judges ears.


IIRC Brian Souter was the only HAT car in attendance.


----------



## DAT

chefhow said:


> IIRC Brian Souter was the only HAT car in attendance.


what about Brett Nelker, John Marsh ?


----------



## JBishop

Well wish I could have gone but with job situation and being on HAT team I could make it. At least I can say I have the highest scoring Street car in MECA.


----------



## thehatedguy

I heard some rumors...pretty petty to boycott over this stuff if true.


----------



## psycle_1

thehatedguy said:


> I heard some rumors...pretty petty to boycott over this stuff if true.


Take it from me J, rumors are just that, rumors. I have no reason to lie about it.


----------



## David_Edwards

John Marsh was there for both Team Hybrids and Team Arc. As for a "boycott" that is downright false.


----------



## Velozity

This is kind of random but these guys need to be recognized once more for this:

Out of 48 competitors in SQL, only 8 scored an 80 or better. And of those 8, 2 of them were on Team DIYMA...

Well played Mic and Howard, well played.


----------



## slade1274

Oliver said:


> Is it harder to *stay at the top* , than it is to *rise to the top* ?
> 
> What It Takes To Be Number One | Simple Truths
> 
> _Who has reigned the longest?_
> *
> Like year after year ?*


Kirk Proffitt did in the Stock/Street class for 5 years.



bikinpunk said:


> to those of you who competed: what was your score from Zenner and how far off was he from the other judges?
> 
> I'm trying to get a feel for what they guy is after. His comments on my sheet are the polar opposite of what most judges have said in the past and he docked me in areas where I excelled at with the others. So, I'm just trying to get a feel for him. Since Mic is a friend of his and Howard/Mic have a similar tune, I have an idea of what he's after, but still curious to see what he gave others.
> 
> Thanks


Great question and I would say that Mic may be the best to answer as any comment I would make is just what Mic has told me; and I hate misquoting due to misunderstanding.... my scores were Zenner 71, Vinnie 77.75, John 83.

At ESN Zenner and Vinnie were less than 1 pt apart; which is usually the norm from what I have heard.


----------



## thehatedguy

I'm glad they are just that...I think too highly of the team to find such a thing to be true.


----------



## thehatedguy

Vinny is a prosound guy. He is probably going to favor a more live sound. I would think he would want a bit more bit in the midrange and highs, and I would think he would like really good output. The other judges were probably looking for a good mixing room or home stereo sound...something polished and polite.

That's just my guess based on things that I've heard in the past.


----------



## Matt R

Vinny is the home theater/audio installer. Chris Zenner is the pro sound guy, and Vrooman is the home audio guy. 

Event Schedule


----------



## Matt R

Congrats to Team Elite for 3 championships!!! Special props to Matt Daly (SCyanky) for the second highest score of the whole show in street class!!!!!

Congrats to Team Zapco for for one of the bigest team turnouts ever and the great sportsmanship!


----------



## thehatedguy

Dirr...that's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## scyankee

Thanks for all your help MR Congratulations to all my teams mates at team elite, friends at zapco and diyma. Great finals this year with very tough competition. Looking forward to some rest but also looking forward to 2011.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

scyankee said:


> Thanks for all your help MR Congratulations to all my teams mates at team elite, friends at zapco and diyma. Great finals this year with very tough competition. Looking forward to some rest but also looking forward to 2011.


Congrats sir, heard nothing but great things about you and your ride and with a friend like Mr. Roberts in your corner I wouldn't expect anything else but greatness. Keep up the great work and giving the others guys something to shoot for.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Velozity said:


> This is kind of random but these guys need to be recognized once more for this:
> 
> Out of 48 competitors in SQL, only 8 scored an 80 or better. And of those 8, 2 of them were on Team DIYMA...
> 
> Well played Mic and Howard, well played.


Wow nice job team diyma. And great job Howard Team H-Audio/Audible Physics.


----------



## MacLeod

bikinpunk said:


> to those of you who competed: what was your score from Zenner and how far off was he from the other judges?
> 
> I'm trying to get a feel for what they guy is after. His comments on my sheet are the polar opposite of what most judges have said in the past and he docked me in areas where I excelled at with the others. So, I'm just trying to get a feel for him. Since Mic is a friend of his and Howard/Mic have a similar tune, I have an idea of what he's after, but still curious to see what he gave others.
> 
> Thanks


Zenner's always a point of contention every year. His scores usually seem random. You'll see several guys getting mid 80's from the other 2 judges then a 70 from Chris. Then you'll see guys get the opposite and Chris' score will be 10+ points higher than the other 2 judges. Then there are some times he's within a point of the other judges. He's definitely hard to figure out. 

Guess the only way to do it is track him down and do as many shows as possible that he's judging and get a lengthy clinic from him then have a pre-set just for him.


----------



## BigRed

a number is just a number in MECA. its the number you score the day of the competition that counts in comparison to our other competitors. Heck, i've scored as low as 78 and as high as 92.5 in MECA. Heck, I scored a 100 in my driveway, and i was the only judge 

congrats to all the winners, and a special congrats to Gary Summers from California who won modex, and had a very nice score that day.

see some of you guys next year


----------



## ErinH

ea. I've talked with a few people about him, who I figure know his tastes. Apparently he's a hard dude to nail down. 

The one good thing is that he left me good comments.... well, plenty of comments. But, the things he commented on were things I felt I needed to have. So, I just chalk that up as preference. We'll see, though. Maybe I can get a feel for his tastes next year. Or not. lol.


BTW, wish you coulda' made it out. I saw Jonathan for a brief few. Was good to catch up with him. Robert and Andy were there as well. Wish you coulda' made it out.


----------



## ncv6coupe

Listening to everyones sound now sure is gonna help me to "lock" in my tune. If I were to try to describe the zenner tune, he probably likes mild resonance in the high mid-lower treble, very snappy attack which makes guitar picks tingle across your face and solid with quick decay midbass with a hint of subbass in the mix. Erin your car is as you said, definately not that tune but very enjoybale, damn the "audison" shyt tune bro.


----------



## MacLeod

bikinpunk said:


> ea. I've talked with a few people about him, who I figure know his tastes. Apparently he's a hard dude to nail down.
> 
> The one good thing is that he left me good comments.... well, plenty of comments. But, the things he commented on were things I felt I needed to have. So, I just chalk that up as preference. We'll see, though. Maybe I can get a feel for his tastes next year. Or not. lol.


That's the one problem, he doesn't judge a lot of shows as far as I know, so its hard to get your system in front of him much.



> BTW, wish you coulda' made it out. I saw Jonathan for a brief few. Was good to catch up with him. Robert and Andy were there as well. Wish you coulda' made it out.


Dude I was sick as a dawg! I didn't even get out of bed Sunday. Didn't even watch much football.


----------



## Mic10is

Ive been competing for about a decade and something I learned from being around alot of Top guys over the years from Mickey Brones, Steve Head, Gary Biggs, Mark Elderidge etc...
Like any competition you have to know your competition and you have to know your audience.

Thats the great benefit of digital processing--PRESETS!!!

I know alot of the guys running the Zapco Dsp6 that have multiple settings for different judges, I think I remember Kirk saying last year he had like 18 John Vrooman files.

John and Vinny seem to prefer more of a home audio sound and experience.
Every car that scored really well with them seem to have that commonality. Very Smooth tonality and balance, good technically, but sometimes not great but very pleasant to listen to overall.

Zenner being a Pro Sound guy prefers a very live sound. instruments have to sound real,especially the drum track. and the sticker here is that the room has to be recreated. Rooms are key. each track on the Chesky disc is recorded in a different room or environment . Ambiance is different, image size is different.
each track should not sound the same. I heard quite a few cars that alot of stuff even using my CD sounded basically the same.

The other thing is--instead of bitchin and wondering what a judge likes or wants--goto the source and ask them. All of them are approachable and willing to help or at least explain what they heard and what they want to hear.

Another point is, people who dont compete much outside of areas sometimes forget that other judges may hear differently. Vinny judges alot of shows in his area, so if youre used to tuning for Vinny it may not be great for someone else. Same with John.
Howard and I get judged by Zenner alot. We've been hammered by Zenner ALOT. I was barely breakin 70s with Chris last year. But after awhile and alot of conversations later, I'm getting on the same page of what he wants and listens for. I havent figured Vrooman out to save my life bc his tastes seems to change show to show and I get judged by VInny twice a year and get the same score...


Congrats to all the winners and Team members for the support and success.
Team Diyma had a great showing at MECA Finals. I'm proud to be apart of such a great group of competitors and people.
We need a few more top guys to compete w Team Elite, so its time step things up for next year.

and of course, Thanks to Image Dynamics and Ixos for their support over the past decade and most importantly to my wife and copilot for all the help and support.
There will be one more car in the lanes next year and maybe even a MECA Kids vehicle.


----------



## ErinH

mic, hope the 'bitchin' part wasn't aimed at me. 
I did talk to him after the show. He left me some good comments, too. Still good to get other people's perspectives who have been around him more. Like Aaron said above, he's not around here much.


I agree about presets. The 'competition' aspect make it so that one should consider learning and knowing the different judges and tuning based on their likes and dislikes. I said the same thing on a guy's facebook page who was talking about said judge's swings a couple days ago.

I still am not so sure I agree that one needs to have different presets. Well, maybe need isn't the correct word. You _shouldn't_ have to have different presets because the subjectivity should be removed. It shouldn't matter what a particular judge likes and dislikes. It shouldn't... that doesn't mean it doesn't. Hard to remove subjectivity from sound quality. So, we just deal with it. People who want absolutes should move to SPL.


----------



## Andy Jones

Mic what were your scores across the 3 judges? Just wonder since you are judged by Zinner more than most others.

and anyone else from that regions would be nice to actually see scoresheets. Especially for those that simply can't drive that far to be judged by him a lot.


----------



## Mic10is

Andy Jones said:


> Mic what were your scores across the 3 judges? Just wonder since you are judged by Zinner more than most others.


78,78.5, 85.5
Vinny,John,Chris

Andy you got me seriously considering doing something I had vowed I would never ever do again---compete in USACi...just to see If I could win a triple crown


not directed at you Erin or anyone directly---theres just been alot of bitchin on FB, other forums etc.....


----------



## ErinH

Mine were:
Vinny = 82.5
John = 80.25
Zenner = 70.5

I don't care about the numbers as much as the scores and comments that go with them. Zenner was pretty much polar opposite of what the other two guys said. So, in my particular case, if I had tuned for Zenner, I would have scored lower with Vinny & John. Trade offs. To boot, if I had tuned for Zenner, I wouldn't be able to listen to my own setup... just not what I think makes a system sound good to me.

Oh great, here I am sounding like I'm sour. I'm not. I got third behind two great sounding cars so I'm not bitter at all. I didn't expect to beat Steve and after seeing that Summers showed up, I was pretty sure getting top 5 was going to be near impossible. We had an incredibly great class with some excellent sounding cars. Considering I had done an entire rebuild a few weeks before then, I was very happy. But, I did do the rebuild so I'd have a better chance at doing good here. I can't lie. 

I'll take Zenner's comments to heart and try a few things he said, but ultimately, the things he suggested I change are what I feel gives my system the characteristics that I like.


----------



## MacLeod

I agree with Mic. It's not about having the best sounding system, its about having what Vroom, Vinny and Chris (or any judge panel) think is the best sounding system. 

Vroom doesn't want to hear anything below 80 Hz. Vinny wants good solid impact on kick drums. Dave Hogan looms for precise imaging. Zenner seems to like a brighter sound with more bite. 

Every good judge will be the same on the fundamentals but they will differ on the play pretties that they tend to zero in on. It's these things where you can add a point or two to your score.


----------



## Oliver

Call ahead and don't go if Zenner is there

It takes a certain ego to pay to have someone say: Yeah i like it and here is a trophy to prove it.

To each their own [ Bose appeals to a lot of people ... just saying ]


----------



## ErinH

Oliver said:


> Call ahead and don't go if Zenner is there
> 
> It takes a certain ego to pay to have someone say: Yeah i like it and here is a trophy to prove it.
> 
> To each their own [ Bose appeals to a lot of people ... just saying ]


Jim, you should come down sometime, lol.

Seriously, you're only what?... 8 hours? Ron drove 7 hours over night from CT to come hang out. You can do it.


----------



## chefhow

Way too go MD!!! Your car was right on this weekend and got exacty what it deserved, the top trophy.


----------



## ErinH

MacLeod said:


> I agree with Mic. It's not about having the best sounding system, its about having what Vroom, Vinny and Chris (or any judge panel) think is the best sounding system.
> 
> Vroom doesn't want to hear anything below 80 Hz. Vinny wants good solid impact on kick drums. Dave Hogan looms for precise imaging. Zenner seems to like a brighter sound with more bite.
> 
> Every good judge will be the same on the fundamentals but they will differ on the play pretties that they tend to zero in on. It's these things where you can add a point or two to your score.


I agree. Again, that's where the _competition_ aspect really falls into this.
I'm just not keen on that, yet.

And, really, when you REALLY think about it, that's what competition is about. It's about learning your competition and your judges. That's why so many people have different presets or 'tricks' for certain judges (ie: seat height, etc). I personally don't do this as I have a hard enough time tuning for myself, much less three judges. My point is simply that those who take this as a true competition factor in these points and that's why some are quite successful. That could very well lead to those individuals having more consistent scores while others don't: the ones who did really well may know the judges' tastes (tastes with relation to judging is an entirely different topic) and tune their system for different judges.

Most importantly, though, I want to say congrats to all who showed up. I think everyone got something out of the show. Personally, I'd trade in a trophy for a fun day of hanging out with friends and seeing old faces. That's why I attend. I compete because I want to learn, but I go to be with friends. I feel like I achieved both goals so it was a success for me.


----------



## slade1274

Erin.... Zenner was also last in your car; no telling when the "shyte tune" happened.... 

Just sayin- it's a possiblity


Oh, and competition is all about adjusting to individual defense.....


----------



## ErinH

slade1274 said:


> Erin.... Zenner was also last in your car; no telling when the "shyte tune" happened....
> 
> Just sayin- it's a possiblity


it's a very strong possibility. I've wondered that myself. Especially with his comment about center being to the right. Sounds exactly like what happened to me when I was having the RCA troubles before. But, I would think that if he had heard it like you guys did, I wouldn't have even gotten a 70 from him. But, yea, I did consider it.

Again, at least he gave me good feedback. It's better than a rough score only.


Ryan, you considering giving it another run next year? 
Any of you fellas think you're gonna call it quits now or plan on competing more?
I had a great time this year. Total blast. I'm already looking forward to next season. Maybe I'll bring Layla with me. Gotta get her exposed to music at a young age so she'll become the next Norah Jones and allow me to retire early.


----------



## slade1274

Yep, you were a 36 at best


----------



## MacLeod

You have a point too Erin. Looking at those scores, a 10 point swing is a little much to overcome. That's not gonna be solved be adding some midbass. 

Maybe there is something to the idea of dropping the high and low score. That way, one judge can't make you or break you.


----------



## chefhow

77 Vinny
80.5 John
82.5 Chris

I was absolutely HAMMERED by Chris this year and got some very good info from John earlier this year. The previous times that Vinny judged my car were both in the 70's. I took what Chris has given me as feedback and tuned accordingly, it paid off.


----------



## ErinH

slade1274 said:


> Yep, you were a 36 at best


sunava'... (mumbles under breath)


Hey, man, seriously... congrats to you again. You've made a lot of progress in the past year. I feel like we've gone through this together, lol. You've gone through as many rebuilds as I have and it's worked out well for both of us. Hopefully we can get some hangin' out time again before too long.


----------



## ncv6coupe

Anyone else willing to share their scores?


----------



## Mic10is

MacLeod said:


> I agree with Mic. It's not about having the best sounding system, its about having what Vroom, Vinny and Chris (or any judge panel) think is the best sounding system.
> 
> Vroom doesn't want to hear anything below 80 Hz. Vinny wants good solid impact on kick drums. Dave Hogan looms for precise imaging. Zenner seems to like a brighter sound with more bite.
> 
> Every good judge will be the same on the fundamentals but they will differ on the play pretties that they tend to zero in on. It's these things where you can add a point or two to your score.


believe me Zenner doesnt like a brighter sound. I spent too much time focusing on the snap of a snare drum in both cars I tuned and thats where the big deduction from Chris was. I made things too bright to really emphasize the snap but it carried over into some other areas too much

Last year Vinny was my High Score, Chris was 1pt off him and John was 8pts off both with imaging scores that didnt match any feedback I had gotten from anyone else.

Best advice overall and ever serious SQ judge will tell you this-go listen to live music. You can sit at home and listen on whatever $$$$ Home system and tune based on that--but at the end of the day that isnt real.

Hopefully MECA Finals stays in TN, the one thing I look forward to all year is going to the Opry. Fortunately I was able to share the experience with my wife this year, bc that place is awesome.
Superb acoustics in an awesome venue.
The acts I didnt much care for this year, I simply blocked some stuff out and focused on certain instruments.


----------



## Mic10is

MacLeod said:


> You have a point too Erin. Looking at those scores, a 10 point swing is a little much to overcome. That's not gonna be solved be adding some midbass.
> 
> Maybe there is something to the idea of dropping the high and low score. That way, one judge can't make you or break you.


This had been suggested, but then if youre going to throw out the high and low score, why have 3 judges in the 1st place?
have one judged, crank it out in a day and lets go home.

Id be in favor of Olympic Style Judging w 5 Judges. throw out the high and low and average the other 3.

but damn that would be a ridiculously long day.


----------



## Andy Jones

I'm really hoping MECA finals is in Durant, OK next year. There is a growing west coast competition group, and having it in TN isn't fair to them at all.

Also, the casino in Durant is beyond nice. It is the PERFECT place for finals. I also think a lot of good things come from having it there.


Mic--if you are going after the triple--you better hurry. USACi isn't looking all that good these days. . .


----------



## MacLeod

The thing about the "hi/lo" way is that if I get 73/73/85 and you get 80/80/70, you should win but I would because of the huge point swing from the 1 judge. Dropping the hi and low would give a more accurate result. 

I dunno, maybe they just need a judges conference and iron out some definitions of what is a 85 and what is a 70.


----------



## Mic10is

Andy Jones said:


> I'm really hoping MECA finals is in Durant, OK next year. There is a growing west coast competition group, and having it in TN isn't fair to them at all.
> 
> Also, the casino in Durant is beyond nice. It is the PERFECT place for finals. I also think a lot of good things come from having it there.
> 
> 
> Mic--if you are going after the triple--you better hurry. USACi isn't looking all that good these days. . .


Thanks Andy. I'll have to put alot more thought into it. I still have scars and my ass clenches anytime I think about ever going back to that organization.
Screw me once, shame on me, screw me 15 times...call me to send back a trophy mis-add every score sheet, lie to me...WTF

I hope you had good weather for your bike ride home
Thanks for comin to hang out.

and the drive to OKC SUCKs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Logistically it makes sense, but SPL'ers dont drive, so theyd lose some numbers there.Whether or not the amount of CA guys could offset that remains to be seen.
But it would be great to have a true "World" Finals where the top cars from all over the country could attend.

maybe even you will make it back into the lanes...or r u waiting for EMMA so U can pull another one and done


----------



## Andy Jones

I'm a one night stand. 

I might come back, but honestly, I've been flat out screwed by Zenner. He won't ever get back in my car. So even if I compete, I'll take a zero before I let him back in my car.


----------



## AccordUno

Wow, I see Zenner hasn't changed one bit.. Fellas, I stopped competing like what 4-5 years now (right Andy?). He was hard to figure out back then, so I would say it's nice that he hasn't changed.. But isn't that makes competing interesting? If you know their sweet spot with the digital processors these days makes it way too easy.. 

When you get a chance sit down w/ Zenner and have a conversation with him, it might give you some insight on what he's looking for..


----------



## Mic10is

AccordUno said:


> When you get a chance sit down w/ Zenner and have a conversation with him, it might give you some insight on what he's looking for..


ding ding ding

Jose you should make a come back to...youve been comin to hang out, may as well bring out a car and go through the motions again


----------



## Andy Jones

The first time he judged my car, he literally was in the car under 3 minutes. He got out so fast I asked him if there was a problem. His response "nope" and he walked away. He went back and played soccer with some kids for a while before going to the next car.


He was about 15 or so points lower on my car than the other 2 judges.

That was my BEST experience with him.

I'm done with him.


----------



## AccordUno

Mic10is said:


> ding ding ding
> 
> Jose you should make a come back to...youve been comin to hang out, may as well bring out a car and go through the motions again


I live like 20 minutes from the Finals location, so why not? BTW, if you could find me a crackhead deal on processor, HU, TIME, wiring,TIME , MDF, Resin/Mat/Rage Gold, and Time. I'll be all over it..

Seriously, I'm working on it, just want to come back when I know I can compete right off the bat or else it's going to really suck, like my trial run on IASCA my last year..


----------



## ErinH

I didn't realize the breadth of the gripes with Zenner.
I talked with some of the vets and they've all said the same things about his inconsistency. I was hesitant to say much more, but if you guys had issues then I'm going to go out on a limb and say that my 'sources' are just as valid as I had thought. 

I saw some folks taking to facebook over it. Maybe if there's this much of an issue, it should be brought up to Stern. I have no idea how to tread that water and I don't think I'd want to, personally.


----------



## Mic10is

bikinpunk said:


> I didn't realize the breadth of the gripes with Zenner.
> I talked with some of the vets and they've all said the same things about his inconsistency. I was hesitant to say much more, but if you guys had issues then I'm going to go out on a limb and say that my 'sources' are just as valid as I had thought.
> 
> I saw some folks taking to facebook over it. Maybe if there's this much of an issue, it should be brought up to Stern. I have no idea how to tread that water and I don't think I'd want to, personally.


Ive heard other stories as well about other issues with the other judges as well, so lets just say there are more sides to the story


----------



## DAT

Mic10is said:


> Ive heard other stories as well about other issues with the other judges as well, so lets just say there are more sides to the story


Maybe we should judge our own cars. :laugh:


----------



## Mic10is

DAT said:


> Maybe we should judge our own cars. :laugh:


negative..I'd never get a trophy unless I can judge it while driving or really really tired


----------



## sqcomp

I dunno what you guys are complaining about location and all. I had to fly in from the west coast. Then I was under the impression that I had to pay to get in...

I just said eF it and auditioned the Gorilla's car all weekend. 

There just aren't any SQ competitions in the NW. I have to spend over a $100 to get a passport to go to canada or drive down to Sacramento for a real SQ competition.

I'm VERY happy after hearing Dave's car though. I'm not far off him at all. Just a bit of finish work and some tweaking to my midbass (which I've already started) and I'm set. I'm really excited to give competition a try...regardless of the organization.

Oh, and WTF is up with Tennessee drivers? You've got people in the fast lane barrelling down on you..move the eF over! I swear, the term drive right doesn't mean anything.


----------



## ErinH

it's not just in TN, brother. 


Shame you made it all the way out here and didn't come to the show!


----------



## AccordUno

sqcomp said:


> Oh, and WTF is up with Tennessee drivers? You've got people in the fast lane barrelling down on you..move the eF over! I swear, the term drive right doesn't mean anything.



LOL. you should try when it's raining.. They can't drive when it dry, yet alone wet.. 


Fellas, Zenner is a good judge, it's nice to have one that scores differently, he at least puts comments on your sheet.. Just remember, this is not some science that you measure and come up with a number.. It's someone opinion and interpretation of the rules.. 

Mic seriously, I am working on coming back, I got to get a few more items and i'll start building soon. Nothing fancy.. What class are you in again? You don't mind some friendly competition, do you? LOL..


----------



## tintbox

AccordUno said:


> LOL. you should try when it's raining.. They can't drive when it dry, yet alone wet..
> 
> 
> Fellas, Zenner is a good judge, it's nice to have one that scores differently, he at least puts comments on your sheet.. Just remember, this is not some science that you measure and come up with a number.. It's someone opinion and interpretation of the rules..
> 
> Mic seriously, I am working on coming back, I got to get a few more items and i'll start building soon. Nothing fancy.. What class are you in again? You don't mind some friendly competition, do you? LOL..


Well put. Zenner is a good judge.


----------



## chefhow

bikinpunk said:


> I didn't realize the breadth of the gripes with Zenner.
> I talked with some of the vets and they've all said the same things about his inconsistency. I was hesitant to say much more, but if you guys had issues then I'm going to go out on a limb and say that my 'sources' are just as valid as I had thought.
> 
> I saw some folks taking to facebook over it. Maybe if there's this much of an issue, it should be brought up to Stern. I have no idea how to tread that water and I don't think I'd want to, personally.


There really isnt anything to tread water about or talk to Steve about, Chris was consistent as far as I can tell. If you look at how he judged my car vs how he judged yours and how the other judges did and you listen to our tunes you can see that he was consistent. He likes his sound a little more realistic and live than the other judges.


----------



## alpinem

Andy Jones said:


> I'm a one night stand.
> 
> I might come back, but honestly, I've been flat out screwed by Zenner. He won't ever get back in my car. So even if I compete, I'll take a zero before I let him back in my car.


Amen brother.......


----------



## sqcomp

You guys don't know how hard it was for me to NOT stop by on Friday and on my way back on Sunday. I had the Challenger as a rental too! 

I'm reading and hearing whispers about the same type of inconsitancies in judging that seriously crippled IASCA years back. What were some of the scores? Some didn't have that much better scores than an OEM Caddy...at least accordng to MECA.

Whelp...at least IASCA is coming to the NW next year. I like the idea of rookie SQi and SQc; especially hearing how close I am to master class sound...unfinished and "untuned".


----------



## Mic10is

AccordUno said:


> LOL. you should try when it's raining.. They can't drive when it dry, yet alone wet..
> 
> 
> Fellas, Zenner is a good judge, it's nice to have one that scores differently, he at least puts comments on your sheet.. Just remember, this is not some science that you measure and come up with a number.. It's someone opinion and interpretation of the rules..
> 
> Mic seriously, I am working on coming back, I got to get a few more items and i'll start building soon. Nothing fancy.. What class are you in again? You don't mind some friendly competition, do you? LOL..


whachoo got Jose? I dont mind competition, in fact I love competition b/c after all thats what this is--a Competition.
Bring it son

If you're still runnin all Beyma, I definitely know youll be louder than me...for now.


----------



## ErinH

I think next year, I'm gonna try an SPL run just to see what the 2 IB15's will do. All I know is that @ 8ohm on the amp, I have to back them down 16dB on top of the minimal gain. They will flat out knock you down when rocking full tilt. Would be interesting to see what sort #s I could get at 20hz.


----------



## Scott P

I'll play this game: Last year The same three judges heard my car and all three were with in 2 points of one another. And I won.

This year I completely changed setups, and classes, got the car tuned as good as it could have been in the time frame I had (less than 36 hours from finish of the build to finals judging) and the car wasn't at it's best but teven then it was doing things better than my car did at any point last year. 

Vinny and Vroom, got in an listened and told me it wasn't as good as it could be, but still it was strong and the scores refected that (76.5 and a 76.25 if I recall correctly since I don't have the scoreshhets in front of me). Zinner got in and litterally played air drums while listening, jammed out for quite awhile, and then proceeded to give me a either a 63 or a 65, and the comments that the wasn't enough mid bass or sub bass. I mention this as it is a polar opposite of what Vinny, and Vroom both told me. His agenda, inability to hear, misguided gauge of what sound quality should be (call it what ever you want) literally cost me a chance at placing. I know I wasn't going to win or even finish second, but I sure didn't see 6th coming. Also I'm not trying to take away from anyone else. I'm just tired of seeing this same complaint every year.

I looked at enough scoresheets to know this: I have no idea what he was looking for this weekend, but what ever it is, it wasn't inline with what has been defined to me within the MECA rules of sound quality. 

If MECA is looking to finish off Iasca and Usaci it really needs to get all the judges on the same page. They have already managed to run off some of the best cars through their lanes, and who knows how many newcomers get ran before they ever get a chance to blossom. . . .


----------



## redgst97

Scott,
If you had only bought a new Corolla, you would have gotten a 69.75. A new GM Cruse would have netted you a 74. Stock.


"The results indicate that the Cruze's audio system is a step up from the traditional audio system in this vehicle's price range. Winning 2 of the 3 tests, the Cruze had the best Sound Quality and highest SPL score. The 3 Judges listened independently to each vehicle and the scores were averaged, using MECA's 100 point score sheet. The Cruze scored 74.83 which is extremely good for a factory audio system. The Corolla was 2nd with 69.75, still a good score for a stock system, and the Civic's average was 58.83. The Sound Quality test is the most important for relating the overall listening experience for the passengers. The Judges scoring indicated they were impressed with the ambience, staging, and sub-bass response, especially compared to the other systems."


----------



## ErinH

So, I did some research on the guy who won my class: Gary Summers. This is what I found...
Gary Summers - IMDb
http://theoscarsite.com/whoswho6/summers_g.htm




> *Won 4 Oscars.* Another 6 wins & 17 nominations.
> 
> A photograph of Mr. Summer's left hand, working the controls of a sound mixing control panel, appears on one stamp of a sheet of 10 USA 37¢ commemorative postage stamps, issued 25 February 2003, celebrating American Filmmaking: Behind the Scenes. The stamp honors sound recording.
> 
> 
> He has done the sound re-recording on a number of blockbuster motion pictures including Avatar, Titanic, Terminator 2, Saving Private Ryan, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen and Jurassic Park. Summers has won four Oscar's, an Emmy Award, two BAFTA awards and three C.A.S. Awards.[1]
> 
> Summers lives in Petaluma, California.[2] He got his start working on The Empire Strikes Back and began a twenty year stretch working for the Skywalker Sound division of George Lucas's Lucas Digital in Marin County, California.[3]. Summers is current employed by Todd-AO.





W.... T..... F.....


Are you KIDDING ME!? No wonder the damn dude won my class! LOL!

Makes me feel like I really got 2nd place instead of 3rd. Dude's an anomaly. 


Greatest thing is that the dude NEVER, EVER let on about any of this. Totally nice guy. Incredibly humble dude. Just crazy...
Wish I had known. I would've asked him if he knew anyone at Disney.


----------



## Mic10is

bikinpunk said:


> So, I did some research on the guy who won my class: Gary Summers. This is what I found...
> Gary Summers - IMDb
> http://theoscarsite.com/whoswho6/summers_g.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W.... T..... F.....
> 
> 
> Are you KIDDING ME!? No wonder the damn dude won my class! LOL!
> 
> Makes me feel like I really got 2nd place instead of 3rd. Dude's an anomaly.


Kind of puts things in perspective for you doesnt it?
All the **** car audio competitors do and think they are advanced and know this and know that---Gary Summer won ****in Oscars for how he makes things sound!!!

I'm sure his 6ft tall MECA Troph will go right next to his Oscars...actually he left the trophy at his brother house or something bc he just left for Thailand....


----------



## thehatedguy

Matt at ID had been telling me that his car was pretty nice...just didn't get loud. And for Matt to say that, it must have been really good.

Was I the only person on the east coast that knew who the guy was and what he does for a living?


----------



## ErinH

yea. you probably were.
there's a cookie in the mail for you. 

I had heard of him and knew he was an audio engineer but had no idea about his credentials.


----------



## teamelite

If MECA is looking to finish off Iasca and Usaci it really needs to get all the judges on the same page. They have already managed to run off some of the best cars through their lanes, and who knows how many newcomers get ran before they ever get a chance to blossom. . . .[/QUOTE]

Before anyone starts assuming that MECA is running off great cars you need to look at both sides. As in most organizations there is always issues some easily handled and some not so easy. In most cases the issues are opinions and everyone is entitled to there own. We all have our own reason why or why-not we compete and most respect others on there opinions. I do feel that when you have the opportunity to learn from others than you need to capitalize on it, like Mic said earlier go up and ask the judge what he or she is hearing, you don't know until you ask and you cant fix what you don't know. All good judges have a good understanding of the fundamentals of sound, however most all like things there way whether it be a bright finger snap, some kick ass mid bass or just smooth mellow sound. Does an Indy car driver drive his car without knowing the track? Know your judge!!! Also a # is a # for that show on that day- nothing more nothing less. Whether you score a 90 or a 60 its all relative to how that judge is scoring that day. My scoring tends to be between 55 to the upper 70's does that make me a bad judge? you decide. but my scores are consistent that day and may be relative to some of the scores in other areas scoring 95's.

FYI, I eliminate the points game at ESN's Sound Challenge, we only use the score to determine placement not the actual score. I have been testing this with several of my shows and it works!

If you feel that a judge doesn't give you your expectations and you have a better ear and more knowledge than by all means please enroll in the judges training!!! We need more judges and if you fit the bill than help out. If you've never judged before try it its not as easy as one might think. Hearing something and putting it on paper can be difficult.

Thanks again to Steve Stern and all who attended it was a great show- good to see everyone again! the awards was way tooooo long but whats new!


----------



## Mic10is

teamelite said:


> If MECA is looking to finish off Iasca and Usaci it really needs to get all the judges on the same page. They have already managed to run off some of the best cars through their lanes, and who knows how many newcomers get ran before they ever get a chance to blossom. . . .


Before anyone starts assuming that MECA is running off great cars you need to look at both sides. As in most organizations there is always issues some easily handled and some not so easy. In most cases the issues are opinions and everyone is entitled to there own. We all have our own reason why or why-not we compete and most respect others on there opinions. I do feel that when you have the opportunity to learn from others than you need to capitalize on it, like Mic said earlier go up and ask the judge what he or she is hearing, you don't know until you ask and you cant fix what you don't know. All good judges have a good understanding of the fundamentals of sound, however most all like things there way whether it be a bright finger snap, some kick ass mid bass or just smooth mellow sound. Does an Indy car driver drive his car without knowing the track? Know your judge!!! Also a # is a # for that show on that day- nothing more nothing less. Whether you score a 90 or a 60 its all relative to how that judge is scoring that day. My scoring tends to be between 55 to the upper 70's does that make me a bad judge? you decide. but my scores are consistent that day and may be relative to some of the scores in other areas scoring 95's.

FYI, I eliminate the points game at ESN's Sound Challenge, we only use the score to determine placement not the actual score. I have been testing this with several of my shows and it works!

If you feel that a judge doesn't give you your expectations and you have a better ear and more knowledge than by all means please enroll in the judges training!!! We need more judges and if you fit the bill than help out. If you've never judged before try it its not as easy as one might think. Hearing something and putting it on paper can be difficult.

Thanks again to Steve Stern and all who attended it was a great show- good to see everyone again! the awards was way tooooo long but whats new![/QUOTE]



Well SAID!!!

Congrats again for another great Year for Team Elite. Team DIYMA is comin for you guys next year!!!


I was talking w a good friend who competes heavily in SPL and is a Multi-world champion in SPL, and was also an IASCA Judge.

after we talked briefly about the SPL clusterfuck at finals, we talked about some of the complaints people were having about the SQL side

His 1st response was simple--in IASCA, thats the 1st thing you learn--know your judge.


----------



## pionkej

I must say that I checked this thread the other day just to see where everybody panned out in the rankings. As a person planning to compete next season, I like that the topics have remained a discussion and hasn't turned into a fight like so often can happen on forums. A couple comments now that I finally have the chance to share:

1.) Congrats to everybody out there this weekend! It was great seeing some people I already knew, meeting a couple of new people, and since people were kind of all over the place, it was great to see all of your cars even if I didn't get to talk to you.

2.) TN drivers are bad. It's more than just poor lane selection, you should see the lack of people with their lights on at dawn, dusk, and in the rain. You should also see the abundance of people who manage to just drive off the road when we get a slight dusting of snow.

3.) Gary Summers was very humble. We spoke for a few minutes about the amount of power on tap for headroom in recording studios and his use of "hoods" on his dome midranges to reduce reflections from being dash mounted. While I knew from speaking with him he worked with sound recording in a professional capacity, I had no idea what he did and he felt no need to flaunt it. 

4.) If inconsistent scoring is a potential problem, why not let judges preference count for only like 30 points out of the total score, where each judge gets 10 points? Make most of the scoring an objective checklist where each line is worth 5 points. Is the singer centered...4 points (mostly with a slight pull to the left). Is the stage at eye level...5 points (yes). Can _____ detail be heard...3 points (yes but would have been missed if not listening for it). Etc. Have enough sections to get to around 70 points. Then each judge gets 10 points to subjectively score each car. That way if one guy thinks the midbass is weak and another thinks it is perfect, you get a 7 and a 10 and both still have an impact but not a "make or break" type deal. Like I said, I'm planning to start competing next year, so I may be WAY off base, but it seems like a good idea up in my noggin.


----------



## Velozity

I guess this discussion was inevitable, but it's too bad we have to have it. There's a lot in this thread I agree with, and a lot I totally disagree with. To me, the bottom line is this:

1. The goal of competition is to win. If you're not in it to win it then at the very least you're in it to get better (more of a personal win) but you still ultimately want to win. That means you do what you need to do to make yourself competitive. If that means tweaking your system to a judge at finals, or skewing your term paper to an english professor in college, it's the same freaking thing. I was stubborn and just made my system sound great to me on my music (very rarely even played Chesky) and as a result I didn't do as well as I could have. But I've accepted this truth and will refocus my efforts next year to try and win.

2. Car audio competition is a subjective sport. There are absolutely no absolutes . It's disturbing to hear you guys beat on one judge or the other just because he didn't agree with the other two. Wtf does it matter? As long as he's consistent and fair with everybody on that day then it really doesn't matter. The common theme among all judges is that they love music. Whether its home audio, car audio, live audio, whistling, or whatever, they love the music. Their tastes may even shift from time to time. That's where the fun comes in and that's what makes the "sport" of it. Would you still watch the Lakers if you knew they were going to win every game? Would you still go hunting if you knew that buck was going to be in the same spot at the same time every morning? No!

3. Judging should be more than just to determine standings. As I stated in point one, competition is about winning, however we obviously all can't win. So the next best thing is to progress. In order to do that we need feedback. It would be nice if all of the judges made it a point to write comments on the score sheets. I know some do and some don't. But we all really need it. Then there wouldn't be so much speculation about what this 70 means or that 80 means. It would be much more beneficial to say "well he liked my midbass attack" or "I didn't have enough shimmer" or whatever. Then since we all listen to each other's cars anyway we can correllate these comments into our own perceptions and connect the dots.


----------



## Mic10is

Velozity said:


> I guess this discussion was inevitable, but it's too bad we have to have it. There's a lot in this thread I agree with, and a lot I totally disagree with. To me, the bottom line is this:
> 
> 1. The goal of competition is to win. If you're not in it to win it then at the very least you're in it to get better (more of a personal win) but you still ultimately want to win. That means you do what you need to do to make yourself competitive. If that means tweaking your system to a judge at finals, or skewing your term paper to an english professor in college, it's the same freaking thing. I was stubborn and just made my system sound great to me on my music (very rarely even played Chesky) and as a result I didn't do as well as I could have. But I've accepted this truth and will refocus my efforts next year to try and win.
> 
> 2. Car audio competition is a subjective sport. There are absolutely no absolutes . It's disturbing to hear you guys beat on one judge or the other just because he didn't agree with the other two. Wtf does it matter? As long as he's consistent and fair with everybody on that day then it really doesn't matter. The common theme among all judges is that they love music. Whether its home audio, car audio, live audio, whistling, or whatever, they love the music. Their tastes may even shift from time to time. That's where the fun comes in and that's what makes the "sport" of it. Would you still watch the Lakers if you knew they were going to win every game? Would you still go hunting if you knew that buck was going to be in the same spot at the same time every morning? No!
> 
> 3. Judging should be more than just to determine standings. As I stated in point one, competition is about winning, however we obviously all can't win. So the next best thing is to progress. In order to do that we need feedback. It would be nice if all of the judges made it a point to write comments on the score sheets. I know some do and some don't. But we all really need it. Then there wouldn't be so much speculation about what this 70 means or that 80 means. It would be much more beneficial to say "well he liked my midbass attack" or "I didn't have enough shimmer" or whatever. Then since we all listen to each other's cars anyway we can correllate these comments into our own perceptions and connect the dots.


Well Said Captain oh my Captain of the banana squeezers.
You can take your well written advice and sell it for guns and drugs and invest that in a Roth IRA and retire in a few years and never have to worry about this **** again:laugh::laugh:


----------



## Velozity

ROFLMAO!! :biggrinflip:

Man we have got to figure out how to get a hold of that waitress and check up on her...:laugh:


----------



## Velozity

Everybody check out the pics on the Car Audio Magazine website here:

Gallery: MECA World Finals Soundfest

Sorry if it's already been posted...*very tired*...


----------



## chefhow

Mic10is said:


> Well Said Captain oh my Captain of the banana squeezers.
> You can take your well written advice and sell it for guns and drugs and invest that in a Roth IRA and retire in a few years and never have to worry about this **** again:laugh::laugh:


HOLY ****!!!! That poor girl didn't know what hit her!!! I think for next year we should change our team logo to a fist squeezing a banana with the mission statement "Give us your WIC card and we'll give u a Roth IRA." we could even do infomercials and sell it as a 5 step process to get u rich quick or for stay at home single moms...


----------



## ncv6coupe

Lol, at least I wasn't in the "middle"


----------



## ErinH

Velozity said:


> Everybody check out the pics on the Car Audio Magazine website here:
> 
> Gallery: MECA World Finals Soundfest
> 
> Sorry if it's already been posted...*very tired*...


this is why my doors were shut most of the show.
if that dude had tried taking pictures of my install, his camera would've burst into flames immediately just to take itself away from the harm it was about to process.


----------



## MacLeod

Its not that people are beating up on Chris because he doesn't agree with Vinny and Vroom. The issue is he's 10+ points in the opposite direction. When Vinny and Vroom are giving 85's, Chris is giving 70's and when Vinny and Vroom are giving 70's, Chris is handing out 85's. That IS an issue.

I'm not banging on Chris at all. I've met him, talked to him and I like the dude. And he usually scores me high so I've got no beef here. But over the years Ive seen way too many 85/85/70 scoresheets loosing to 78/78/85 scores.

Like I said before, maybe MECA should gather their top notch judges together for a summit so everybody can be on the same page a little better. Yes everybody will have different tastes but there shouldnt be 15 point swings between a judge. And when its the same judge year after year, I don't think its out of line to want to look into a solution.


----------



## Andy Jones

^exactly.

The way Chris judges, the other two judges should just stay home. He makes their scoresheets mean absolutely nothing. Vinny and Vroom wasted their time scoring several cars this weekend (and EVERY OTHER SHOW that Chris has judged over the last few years) because of his wild swings. 

One judge should not be able to determine the outcome with 3 judges--and when Chris judges that is exactly what happens.


----------



## ErinH

I believe the MECA guys are working on a different method of scoring that simply uses the judge's individual ranking (ie: 1st, 2nd, etc) and tallying those values up across three judges, vs. using the scores scores and taking an average of the three. 
I've got the spreadsheet to prove that it does make a difference (built last week before finals).

Ie: Taking the following scores:
Car A: 83, 82, 70
Car B: 81, 83, 70
Car C: 77, 78, 85

Using an average puts car C as the winner, Car A as 2nd, and Car B as 3rd.
If you instead simply base the scores based on individual judge ranks, then Car A would get 1st, B would get 2nd, and C would get 3rd.


The above isn't an argument... it's simple numbers. An alternative to using the scoring system that many have complained about.


----------



## pionkej

Velozity said:


> 1. The goal of competition is to win. If you're not in it to win it then at the very least you're in it to get better (more of a personal win) but you still ultimately want to win. *That means you do what you need to do to make yourself competitive. If that means tweaking your system to a judge at finals, or skewing your term paper to an english professor in college, it's the same freaking thing. *I was stubborn and just made my system sound great to me on my music (very rarely even played Chesky) and as a result I didn't do as well as I could have. But I've accepted this truth and will refocus my efforts next year to try and win.


I hadn't really thought of things this way, as I had always viewed it as what we are trying to do is recreate the recording as accurately as possible. I mean I would think the judges listen to the song(s) all on the same system for reference and are told, "this is what it SHOULD sound like," and then they judge each system according to that criteria.

If that is case, it is less like a "term paper" and more like an "art class" analogy. If I'm in an art class and the objective is to draw the Mona Lisa, I shouldn't get an A from one teacher for giving Mona Lisa a mohawk and go next door and get an F from a different teacher for the same picture. If I do better at color recreation and shading (tonality for example) than facial accuracy (staging and depth) then I would expect to get slightly different grades based on where a teacher places priority, but I still wouldn't expect to get a B in one class and a D in another. If I had B quality work, I would expect my grade to range from a B+ to B- depending on who was judging it.

One last note before anybody makes the argument that a 10 point swing is pretty close to my B+ to B- grade example. Take in to account that few people get an "F" in MECA so most scores are in the 70-90 window. That makes a 10 point swing a 50% change from one judge to the next which is HUGE!

EDIT: Note again that I did not compete this year and therefore was not a affected in any way by these scoring swings. Therefore I'm not commenting based on anger or appreciation of any judges scores but merely making an observation of what I think when I see that people have drasically different scores among judges.


----------



## AccordUno

Mic10is said:


> whachoo got Jose? I dont mind competition, in fact I love competition b/c after all thats what this is--a Competition.
> Bring it son
> 
> If you're still runnin all Beyma, I definitely know youll be louder than me...for now.



Man, I've never been able to get loud, even when I had all the power I had in it the accord, never did I break 125db. Yes I will be running beyma gear and something else. .. Who knows maybe it will be ready for SBN..

Now back to the judging, this is why MECA uses the 3 judges. it's used it from the get go and has really worked well, with some small exceptions, but overall well.. Yes I had my share of inconsistencies back in the day, get a 90 one weekend and 76 the next weekend and not change anything. that's what made it interesting.. 

Notice: I do not represent MECA or paid by MECA for my comments and it's been a few years since i've been in the lane, basing my opinions on my experience both as a Judge and competitor..


----------



## MacLeod

bikinpunk said:


> I believe the MECA guys are working on a different method of scoring that simply uses the judge's individual ranking (ie: 1st, 2nd, etc) and tallying those values up across three judges, vs. using the scores scores and taking an average of the three.
> I've got the spreadsheet to prove that it does make a difference (built last week before finals).
> 
> Ie: Taking the following scores:
> Car A: 83, 82, 70
> Car B: 81, 83, 70
> Car C: 77, 78, 85
> 
> Using an average puts car C as the winner, Car A as 2nd, and Car B as 3rd.
> If you instead simply base the scores based on individual judge ranks, then Car A would get 1st, B would get 2nd, and C would get 3rd.
> 
> 
> The above isn't an argument... it's simple numbers. An alternative to using the scoring system that many have complained about.


You know, that might be a good idea. Could be a mess if youve got 10 people in a class but shouldn't be too hard to figure out. 

They'd still need to make sure the judges are looking for the same general things tho. Having one judge hating what another judge loves is always gonna be a problem. However, going by placement Instead if actual score does seem like a way to go. You'd still have to use individual scores to figure up best of show though but I think that would still work.

We'll have to bring this up on MECA's forum if they open up 2011 rules to discussion.


----------



## Mic10is

MacLeod said:


> You know, that might be a good idea. Could be a mess if youve got 10 people in a class but shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
> 
> They'd still need to make sure the judges are looking for the same general things tho. Having one judge hating what another judge loves is always gonna be a problem. However, going by placement Instead if actual score does seem like a way to go. We'll have to bring this up on MECA's forum if they open up 2011 rules to discussion.


Bias. weighting creates more bias. This has been suggested before and that was the exact response it received. Certain Judges wanted to make sure the cars/people they liked to win or place higher so they wanted more weight placed on their scores. 

Its a ****in competition boys. Put your big boy pants on and lets move on. If you didnt score the way you think you should--how about take a few big steps back and maybe take an honest look and listen and maybe youll find out that your car just isnt as badass as you and a few close friend think it is.
Maybe you dont know as much a you think you do about sound and maybe, just maybe there are people who know more.

Ive had to do this many times over the past decade, more so when I was starting out and it sucks. 
Yeh it sucks ass when someone gives you their complete honest opinion.
But Those are the judges I actually learned something from, not the ones who just scored everyone the same who had drastically different sounding cars.

I know a few more things than I did when I started and even after a couple world titles later I still consider myself basically a nobody. Alot of people havent done **** and think they are somebody.

Sorry your ego's got hurt, sorry you cant wash the sand out of your vagina--but 2010 Finals are over--****in move on. If you dont want to compete anymore bc of one judge, leave and go do something else. Someone else will replace you.

I been doin this a long time and if everyone else hasnt figured it out by now--there is a reason many of the "big boy" competitors arent responding to this --bc Judges do read forums.....


----------



## pionkej

MacLeod said:


> You know, that might be a good idea. Could be a mess if youve got 10 people in a class but shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
> 
> They'd still need to make sure the judges are looking for the same general things tho. Having one judge hating what another judge loves is always gonna be a problem. However, going by placement Instead if actual score does seem like a way to go. We'll have to bring this up on MECA's forum if they open up 2011 rules to discussion.


The only problem with that method is how do you rank 1-10 or give out 1st, 2nd, and 3rd until you have heard all 10 cars? How bad will that effect the memory of what car #1 sounded like when going back and ranking. I think a scoring system is probably best. 

What if one judge was responsible for ranking every car based on a checklist and using the same reference track? Say it goes from 1-5 based on "not good" and "great" and he ONLY listened for things like staging width, depth, location, rainbowing, pops, buzzes, etc. That is mostly measurable. That score would count for 70% of the final score. The other two judges would listen to their choice from approved group of tracks and make an assesment on how it sounds to them while listening for things like tonality. Those two scores would be averaged and account for 30% of the final score. It really isn't that hard to do and it would seem to award the measurable end more so than the subjective side of things.

*Current Way Example:*

85pts. from Judge 1
87pts. from Judge 2
70pts. from Judge 3

(85+87+70)/3 = *80.7 final score*

*Proposed Way Example*

85pts. for system accuracy from Judge 1
87pts. from Judge 2 for subjective sound quality
70pts. from Judge 3 for subjective sound quality

85 x 0.7 = 59.5pts
(87+70)/2 = 78.5 x 0.3 = 23.6pts

59.5+23.6 = *83.1 final score*

With a 3 point difference it would seem to take a bit out of getting dinged for your interpritation of accurate not agreeing with one judges interpritation of accurate system reproduction as far as frequency response goes.


----------



## AccordUno

Fellas, you need to also consider this. Is Zenner's score consistent among his scores? when I used to judge, I would set a median score as my average score and go from there, if I was give out 70s all day and then I heard a car that was above the my median score then it would get that, but most scores I gave out were +/- 2-4 from each other.. 

Find out what he gave out that day and go from there.. you might find out that the scores are pretty close..


----------



## chefhow

For those Of you who actually competed and are involved in this discussion think about this; did you take the time to find out what each judge likes? Are they more concerned about the room and it's effect on the recording and staging or do they put that to the back and listen to the tone of the car first and then consider everything else second? Have you talked to them? Listened to the feedback given? Setup your car for what you like a d know or what your judge likes and knows or what ALL 3 like and know? Probably not. 
Take what you were given as feedback, and they ALL gave it on score sheets, some more than others but is there, and use that as ammo for next year. Otherwise get over it, leave it alone and move on. The crying that's going on is making us look like a bunch of SpL guys, and they all have their panties in a wad....

I will say this and it was said to me many years ago by an adivsor for the culinary team I captained in college, SIT DOWN, SHUT THE **** UP AND PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THE JUDGES ARE TELLING YOU!!! I did and it got me in the top 10 OVERALL with a Street class car that uses entry level product in stock locations. Get over yourselves, if you dont win based on not following feedback and using the constructive critisizm given to you over the course of a season then you are at fault, not a judge.


----------



## Oliver

chefhow said:


> For those Of you who actually competed and are involved in this discussion think about this; *did you take the time to find out what each judge likes?* {/quote]
> 
> If U want the trophy . . pucker up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you talked to them? Listened to the feedback given? Setup your car for what you like a d know or what your judge likes and knows or what ALL 3 like and know?
> 
> 
> 
> _
> Brown Nosing_ , all the way !
> 
> I won , I won , ... looky
Click to expand...


----------



## chefhow

Oliver said:


> chefhow said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those Of you who actually competed and are involved in this discussion think about this; *did you take the time to find out what each judge likes?* {/quote]
> 
> If U want the trophy . . pucker up
> 
> 
> 
> _
> Brown Nosing_ , all the way !
> 
> I won , I won , ... looky
> 
> 
> 
> And competing is about winning.....
> 
> SO WHY NOT QUIT ****ING WHINING!!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## MacLeod

pionkej said:


> The only problem with that method is how do you rank 1-10 or give out 1st, 2nd, and 3rd until you have heard all 10 cars? How bad will that effect the memory of what car #1 sounded like when going back and ranking. I think a scoring system is probably best.
> 
> What if one judge was responsible for ranking every car based on a checklist and using the same reference track? Say it goes from 1-5 based on "not good" and "great" and he ONLY listened for things like staging width, depth, location, rainbowing, pops, buzzes, etc. That is mostly measurable. That score would count for 70% of the final score. The other two judges would listen to their choice from approved group of tracks and make an assesment on how it sounds to them while listening for things like tonality. Those two scores would be averaged and account for 30% of the final score. It really isn't that hard to do and it would seem to award the measurable end more so than the subjective side of things.
> 
> *Current Way Example:*
> 
> 85pts. from Judge 1
> 87pts. from Judge 2
> 70pts. from Judge 3
> 
> (85+87+70)/3 = *80.7 final score*
> 
> *Proposed Way Example*
> 
> 85pts. for system accuracy from Judge 1
> 87pts. from Judge 2 for subjective sound quality
> 70pts. from Judge 3 for subjective sound quality
> 
> 85 x 0.7 = 59.5pts
> (87+70)/2 = 78.5 x 0.3 = 23.6pts
> 
> 59.5+23.6 = *83.1 final score*
> 
> With a 3 point difference it would seem to take a bit out of getting dinged for your interpritation of accurate not agreeing with one judges interpritation of accurate system reproduction as far as frequency response goes.


The judge wouldn't rank 1st, 2nd, 3rd and so on. They'd fill out the scoresheet like normal and then when they're tallying up the scores after judging is done, that's when they'd be ranked.


----------



## ErinH

MacLeod said:


> You know, that might be a good idea. Could be a mess if youve got 10 people in a class but shouldn't be too hard to figure out.


I've already done it.

I built a spreadsheet as an example per the request of a friend. I have no idea if they'll use it or tweak it or even bother with it at all, but I made one up to mimic what they would have seen if they were to use that method this past weekend.
I based it off the SAME sheet they use to populate scores and average them. I took their sheet, then added other sheets to the same file for each class and used the score sheet to pull values from. 

I thought it wouldn't really make a difference at first. Until I actually started building it. I have a separate 'sheet' within the same file for each class. Nearly every example I went through had different results from the averaged scores vs. the ranked scores.




MacLeod said:


> The judge wouldn't rank 1st, 2nd, 3rd and so on. They'd fill out the scoresheet like normal and then when they're tallying up the scores after judging is done, that's when they'd be ranked.


Exactly. 

The spreadhseet ranks based on their scores. Each judge scores. The scores are put in just as they are now. Then these scores are ranked to be _his own _1st-xxth (and his own ties) on a separate sheet for each class. The total values (1-xx for each judge/competitor) are then used to place the contestant as a _whole_. Tie Breaks are done the same way they do it now. I even referenced the same cell for my own tie break aliasing.
Again, this was not my idea. A friend who asked if I was good with excel mentioned it and I volunteered to try to put something together for him based on what he was asking.


----------



## ErinH

mic, howard: I'm not unhappy about losing. I got third behind cars that would have beat me regardless of my one off score.

The problem here is the amount of subjectivity being placed on those scores. When judges judge, you would expect their scores to be relative. Of course they won't be the exact same (duh!) and they won't even be the exact same _delta,_ but they should be somewhat 'predictable' based off the other judges. When you have a single judge who is the anamoly and judges seemingly opposite the other two then you see that preference is involved, right? We agreed on this already. Howard, you and I discussed this yesterday over the phone so I know we agree that there is subjectivity.
The fact that presets are being recommended based on a judge's tastes shows that alone. 
And again, I know what competition means. This isn't rocket science. 

So, MY problem then, comes into just how subjective _should_ these scores be? Obviously you can't rule it out entirely, so you expect to see some minor differences. But, what we're talking about are major swings here. Not 2-3 points. 
We know looking at a score as a number is stupid. But we should expect to see at least some linearity. Most of us aren't seeing that... hell, NONE of us are. We ARE seeing subjectivity.

If we're "bitching" about that, then you guys are "bitching" about the opposite thing.
No one here is whining about losing. No one is trying to take away from you. I wouldn't want that... you both did well and you deserved to win. I got third... I ain't complaining a damn bit. 
You've missed the point. We're complaining about the apparent weight of subjectivity being placed. Again, it's to be expected to some extent. In this case, in my opinion, it's not rational. 

If you want to call it bitching, then so be it. I call it statistics. 

personally, I don't like being told I have an ego to get over. I think you two fellas know me better than this and would know that what I'm talking about isn't intended to say that those who won didn't deserve it. If we're going to take to name calling, I'll not participate. I'm just surprised to hear such strong language from team mates and friends. Bums me out. House divided, I presume.




AccordUno said:


> Find out what he gave out that day and go from there.. you might find out that the scores are pretty close..


They aren't. This is what most of us are discussing and what I'm talking about above; the degree of subjectivity.


----------



## chefhow

Erin, then in my case I would look at it the opposite way. Chris and John had me in the 80's Vinny in the 70's, either way it is what it is and it's not going to change. We all have to either learn how to tune somewhere in the middle or just take what we r given and learn go live with it. There is no perfect system but what we have is fair, it's averaged thru 3 judges with 3 very different opinions of how the music should sound and where it should be placed and how it should be judged.


----------



## ErinH

Yes, I understand the flip side argument.

But, in your case, the judge wasn't >10pts off. You guys were off about 5-7pts, correct? And you had two judges who were within ~2 points of each other, correct? 
In most of the others here who are indeed puzzled by the size of the differential of one judge, we are questioning just _why _there is such a large difference. Obviously, then, there's a much larger degree of subjectivity here, which is exactly what _I'm_ questioning.
Make sense?


----------



## chefhow

7.5 between high and low. Vrooman was dead center.
Isn't SQ defined as objective? We had this talk briefly on Sunday night as u were gettin out of the truck.


----------



## David_Edwards

wow...this thread is getting heated


----------



## BigRed

You know we never had these discussions in db drag


----------



## ErinH

chefhow said:


> 7.5 between high and low. Vrooman was dead center.
> Isn't SQ defined as objective? We had this talk briefly on Sunday night as u were gettin out of the truck.


Yep. And mine was 12 pts high/low, while Vrooman was 2pts off high. 

is sq objective? I don't think so entirely. Did you mean subjective?
obviously there is some subjectivity, but again, I'm questioning _how much_ and the inconsistency. I mean, you got 12 pts higher from the one judge than me while I got no more than 5pts higher than you from the other two. That's not a small bit. 

breakdown..
You:
77 Vinny
80.5 John
82.5 Chris

Me:
82.5 Vinny
80.5 John
70.5 Chris

Now do you see what we're talking about?

Ultimately, this doesn't matter and we're just arguing in circles. It's a shame it took me until now to realize it. So, I'm out. Congrats to you guys. We'll see how things go next year and whether or not I have a tune for Chris.

Peace,
Erin


----------



## AccordUno

cajunner said:


> I've never competed, but I'm learning a lot about the sport in this thread.


It's not this bad, trust me.. I will say it's gets competitive but usually pushes each other to get better.. And it's like a family..


----------



## KP

Squirrel!!


----------



## Scott Buwalda

Two things kind of disgust me about this discussion, thus far:

1. Take the time to learn what the judge likes and have a preset specifically for him.
2. The 20-50% swing in points between judges is OK, as long as the judge is consistently low or high.

1. Why should I take the time to learn the judge's idiosyncrasies? Why should I take the time to try and figure out what his reference is, or what he’s “looking” for to be highlighted or extenuated in the music? Why should I try to determine if he’s a “home audio guy” or a “pro sound guy?” Why should I get close to him, interview him, and determine what his idiosyncrasies are? Why should I go to his house, hang out, and listen to his “reference system?” Why should I ask him to sit in my car and ask him what he’d LIKE TO HEAR? I SHOULDN’T AND I WON’T. Cars should be tuned for a tonal and spectral reference; if you don’t have a tonal and spectral reference, go get one (and P.S. it’s not your buddy’s car, not your home audio system, and not your earbuds – its real life, unamplified music – go to a high school concert some time and sit in the front row, like I did last night, and hear what a trombone sounds like, what a snare drum pulled tight at 85 PSI sounds like, what a pair of 18” Zildjian crash cymbals sound like). One judge shouldn’t need 6 or 9 dB more midbass than another judge to make him happy. The damn rear view mirror SHOULD NOT SHAKE for a foot tap on a wooden stage. That’s complete and total crap, and it’s disgusting. I have won five IASCA Expert-Division SQ championships, and I have NEVER specifically tuned for one judge or another. I tune for tonal accuracy and spectral balance, and ensure that phase is coherent for good soundstage and image definition and placement.

2. It’s OK if the judge is consistent? That’s complete crap too. If the rulebook says that center image is worth 5 points, and the judge gives the best car of the day at the event – with a defined, dialed center image – a 2, then it becomes a 2 point category, and perhaps much less weighted than other categories where the judge might be scoring on a higher plateau. CARS ARE NOT JUDGED AGAINST EACH OTHER, THEY ARE JUDGED AGAINST THE RULE BOOK REFERENCE. If a judge is purposely scoring low and/or not in accordance with the mandated rule break-down in any given sanctioning organizations score sheet, then he shouldn’t judge. If the rulebook says a deep, focused, properly-placed center image should get a 5 out of 5 score, then he MUST get a 5 out of 5. MUST! Not a 2 out of 5. Saying a judge was “scoring consistently low” is complete crap. What should be said, instead is “the judge was intent on re-writing the rule book." Judges that score on their own scoring tier are doing a gross disservice to their paying clientele, and are basically RE-WRITING THE SCORE SHEET AND RE-WRITING THE RULE BOOK based upon their own weighting of the various judged sub-sections on the score sheet. Simple as that.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.


----------



## MacLeod

Scott Buwalda said:


> Two things kind of disgust me about this discussion, thus far:
> 
> 2. The 20-50% swing in points between judges is OK, as long as the judge is consistently low or high.


Problem is, the scores aren't consistent at all. He's 10-15 points higher thank the other guys on some. 10-15 points lower than the other guys on some and on a few he's about even.


----------



## CraigE

Here is a quote from another highly respected individual from earlier this season.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
""Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane01VWPassat 
Hey all,

The solution, very simple, read the rule book, use it as the reference when judging, and remember that is the structured platform, follow that and the consistency of judging should be within a few points from judge to judge rather than people having to worry about who their judge is becuase they are using their own scale on what they think it should be given.""
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


For the entire quote go to post #8 http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...udging-scoring-discrepancies.html#post1007771


----------



## chefhow

MacLeod said:


> Problem is, the scores aren't consistent at all. He's 10-15 points higher thank the other guys on some. 10-15 points lower than the other guys on some and on a few he's about even.


Did u ever think he was consiststant based on the way a car sounds and the other guys weren't?


----------



## Matt R

***** ***** *****!!! Ya'll shut up!!!!!


----------



## imjustjason

Mic10is said:


> Sorry your ego's got hurt, sorry you cant wash the sand out of your vagina--but 2010 Finals are over--****in move on. If you dont want to compete anymore bc of one judge, leave and go do something else. Someone else will replace you.


I might be mistaken, but didn't you win the 2010 MECA Sportsmanship Award? The Mike Baylor Sportsmanship Award? I don't have dog in this fight, but I can assure you that crap would have NEVER come out of Mike Baylor's mouth. He was a true sportsman.


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## KP

Very true Jason.


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## chefhow

imjustjason said:


> I might be mistaken, but didn't you win the 2010 MECA Sportsmanship Award? The Mike Baylor Sportsmanship Award? I don't have dog in this fight, but I can assure you that crap would have NEVER come out of Mike Baylor's mouth. He was a true sportsman.


He also wouldn't have sat by watched a fellow competitor, judge and friend get bashed for no good reason without defending him.


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## Mic10is

imjustjason said:


> I might be mistaken, but didn't you win the 2010 MECA Sportsmanship Award? The Mike Baylor Sportsmanship Award? I don't have dog in this fight, but I can assure you that crap would have NEVER come out of Mike Baylor's mouth. He was a true sportsman.


YES I did and I am actually very proud to have accepted the award.
I didnt know Mike, but I know about his passion for the sport,
And its something we have very much in common.

So I am not going to sit by and watch a friend get thrown under the bus bc other people dont agree with him.

A true sportsman also defends his friends and competitors and does what is right.
So I am doing what is right and defending someone who isnt here to defend himself from unwarranted attacks.

Now ask me about the hour I spent w Larry Baylor Sunday morning helping him tune for RTA and I didnt even realize he was Mike's brother.
All I knew was this guy was parked beside me tuning for RTA w TRU RTA but he's being measured on an Audio Control. so I let him use my audio control and we stood there on the side of the truck getting things dialed in as much as possible which was good enough for 5th place. Maybe If I understood the zapco piece more, I could have done more.


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## ncv6coupe

Holy smokes What happened in here? I think this has turned into a silly perception of what sound quality is. Case in point, I was a musician growing up until my teenage years, a silk dome tweeter will NEVER produce a cymbal roll and I mean roll not strike. Now on the other hand, damn silk dome tweeters soothe me when I have to drive in workday traffic. I think we need to seperate what's "real" from what sounds "awesome sounding" in order for car stereo competitions to survive. I saw a few times where people have mentioned going to live un amplified venues. That is solid advice. We should be bitching at speaker manufacturers if what I said can hold any water with anybody who reads this.


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## tintbox

ncv6coupe said:


> Holy smokes What happened in here? I think this has turned into a silly perception of what sound quality is. Case in point, I was a musician growing up until my teenage years, a silk dome tweeter will NEVER produce a cymbal roll and I mean roll not strike. Now on the other hand, damn silk dome tweeters soothe me when I have to drive in workday traffic. I think we need to seperate what's "real" from what sounds "awesome sounding" in order for car stereo competitions to survive. I saw a few times where people have mentioned going to live un amplified venues. That is solid advice. We should be bitching at speaker manufacturers if what I said can hold any water with anybody who reads this.


Well put brother. In the end it's about what sounds right to me(you).


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## MacLeod

chefhow said:


> Did u ever think he was consiststant based on the way a car sounds and the other guys weren't?


No. John Vrooman and Vinny Taylor could be considered the founders of MECA sq judging. They've been there from the start. 

But let's say they are wrong and Zenner is right. That still means they all need to get on the same page. 10-15 point swings seemingly at random ain't doint anybody any favors no matter who is the one swinging.

And again, I'm not banging on Chris. He's never hurt me in scoring and I like him personally. This is not personal at all and I am in no way questioning his competency.


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## Andy Jones

Matt R said:


> ***** ***** *****!!! Ya'll shut up!!!!!


You need a hug.


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## Oliver

Oliver said:


> _Who has reigned the longest?_
> *
> Like year after year ?*





Scott Buwalda said:


> _Cars should be tuned for a tonal and spectral reference;_ if you don’t have a tonal and spectral reference, go get one (and P.S. it’s not your buddy’s car, not your home audio system, and not your earbuds – its real life, unamplified music – go to a high school concert some time and sit in the front row, like I did last night, and hear what a trombone sounds like, what a snare drum pulled tight at 85 PSI sounds like, what a pair of 18” Zildjian crash cymbals sound like). One judge shouldn’t need 6 or 9 dB more midbass than another judge to make him happy. The damn rear view mirror SHOULD NOT SHAKE for a foot tap on a wooden stage. That’s complete and total crap, and it’s disgusting. I have won *five IASCA Expert-Division SQ championships*, and I have NEVER specifically tuned for one judge or another. I tune for tonal accuracy and spectral balance, and ensure that phase is coherent for good soundstage and image definition and placement.


*Very IMPRESSIVE ! Excellent !!*



> ... he’d LIKE TO HEAR? I SHOULDN’T AND I WON’T.
> It’s OK if the judge is consistent? That’s complete crap too.


There it is ^ ^ ^ ^


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## Matt R

Andy Jones said:


> You need a hug.


I got about 15 last weekend!!!


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## MacLeod

I don't doubt it. If there is one thing Matt is, its cuddly.


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## BigRed

I heard they are coming out with an Iphone app that will tell you how ****ty your system is while analyzing it in the vehicle


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## Thumper26

Team SoundDomain had that app from the beginning. It was called the iFoam.


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## BigRed

^^ nice


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## Matt R

I foam!!!! haha I get it!!


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## AccordUno

MacLeod said:


> No. Vinny Taylor could be considered the one of the founders of MECA sq judging. He's been there from the start.


So was Brad Eubank and a few others, Not John..


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## thehatedguy

Scott if I remember correctly the white Expert 240 had motorized kick panels that could change angles based on the height of the listener...and I think there was a computer that saved preset aimed positions.

I dunno, but that to me seems like some advanced nontuning for a specific person.


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## tintbox

I was wondering if that was going to surface.


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## Keith Turner

WOW!!! I see some thing are still the SAME in car audio.


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## Mic10is

Keith T. said:


> WOW!!! I see some thing are still the SAME in car audio.


yep we all need more midbass


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## Keith Turner

Mic10is said:


> yep we all need more midbass


OK. I will see what I can do about that.


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## rawdawg

Huzzah!


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## MacLeod

Keith T. said:


> WOW!!! I see some thing are still the SAME in car audio.


Wouldnt have these problems if youd start judging again.


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## simplicityinsound

All this talk and no one took a swing and knocked a judge out? you guys are all pansies compared to the good ole days  lol


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## Maldonadosqs

Hi Results in SQ and pics the event and cars

Thanks


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## Keith Turner

MacLeod said:


> Wouldnt have these problems if youd start judging again.


That's funny.:idea: Maybe someday.


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## garysummers

Test, having trouble posting!! Thanks


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## audionutz

Gary, I hear the ride is sounding marvelous. Congrats and well-deserved!


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## garysummers

Thanks Steve, Would be great to get your ears in it sometime. Would appreciate your feedback! Have made some major improvements in tuning in the last couple months. Planning to replace the PDX's with the new ones and do some work on the doors in DEC. / JAN.
Gary


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## BigRed

Gary, leave it as is, at least let me catch up 

congrats again on the win!!


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## garysummers

Thanks Jim 

You know I can't stop!!

Gary


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## BigRed

^^ yeah, I know the feeling


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## thehatedguy

Gary, Matt at Image Dynamics has told me about your car. How about some pictures for us on the east coast who might have never seen it before?

And congrats on your win in a very tough class.


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## garysummers

Thanks Jason

It was a very close contest. Steve Cook has a killer system!!

Here is a link to some photos.

Gary's Gallery » Alpine Underground

Gary


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## thehatedguy

That's a nice install Gary. I can't really read the system flow chart though...lol.


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## ALL4SQ

Yes, Nice install. Larger pictures would be cool.

Hopefully I can make it down next season for a northern California Show.
Would love to see your car in person. 

Thanks


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## hemimaddness

HMMMM


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