# The Rebirth of Illusion Audio - 2012 VW GTi SQ Build - With Mosconi :)



## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

As long time car audio enthusiasts, many of lament the fact that quite a few of the old school car audio brands have gone away...most of them remain in the graveyard for all eternity, worse yet, some of them get brought back to life as a skeleton of its former self, floosing the same logo but sans any of the original performance capabilities.

One such brand for me was Illusion Audio...the first time i heard some Illusion speakers was bout 12 years ago...i liked them enough that i purchase my own set of comps and sub...i enjoyed them a lot but after a very short amount of time...due to budgetary concerns as a starving grad students, i had to sell them off. then, a few years later, i heard that the company had went under and that was it...

So...when i learned that ORCA design was bringin the Illusion name back, i was both excited and nervous...deep down, i know that ORCA wouldnt do anything half assed, but still, would it live up to originals and would they still feature the same front motor design that they are known for?

almost two years ago, i saw the prototypes at CES, and some of my fears were calmed, they looked great, still had the front mounted motor, and i was assured that additional improvements had been taken into the design. for me, if I had wished for something out of my original set, it was a bit more midbass output and a bit more output and extension of the sub.

Then, a few months ago, i had a chance to sample the first of the Illusion releases, the top of the line C12 XL sub...truth be told, i was BLOWN AWAY, they are perhaps the best combo SQ and SPL subs i ahve ever heard...but still, they were not the "real" thing, they didnt have the trademark front magnet.

so after a few more months of waiting and anticipating, i finally got my hands on a full Carbon (top of the line) set to play with...

purely out of coincidence, the car that i chose to do my first all illusion build was perfectly suited for them...a brand spanking new 2012 MKVI GTI...

there are two reaons why the new Gti is perfect.

1. there is VERY little clearance behind the oem midbass location. a plastic frame limits mounting depth severely, and you cannot cut it on the account that it is also the anchoring point for the window track. there is also very little space between the metal door panel and the grill on the plastic door card. what this means is that with most good aftermarket midbasses, you are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard space, space it enough to clear the basket behind the speaker, and you risk hitting the surround against the plastic door grille. i believe there are a few members who have experienced this very problem. a cheap shallow midbass can work, but they hardly have the performance we are all looking for.

2. the spare tire well in late model VWs is a donut shaped, with a raised center section. this again limits the depth of the subwoofer. if i wanted to build a fake floor with no raising of the oem height, the entire subwoofer, both mounting depth, AND thickness of the flange and the excursion of the surround, has to be around 4.5" or so...now, if you think about it, most flat subs are still 3.5" or so deep, add thickness of flange and excursion of the surround, you are talking about close to 4.5-5" of total space. that works but since the SI BM is no longer avaiable, i have found the output and extension of most flat subs to be lacking...this is why i normally would do a side mounted box in this car.

Well, as you will see, Illusion Audio is the perfect answer to both of those issues.

so lets get started...

Goals:

1. Achieve a good level of SQ, this is a daily driver, but will compete occasionally at a few events around the area.

2. maintain a low key look inside the cabin

3. build a fully stealth fake floor with zero space taken up, durable but have a lil flash to highlight the products.

lets get started. 

First is the car...almost brand new 




























Becuase the car came with the OEM nav, we decided to retain it.










as it turns out, i didnt even need to recode the headunit becuase it came with the Dynaudio system, the OEM setting is sending out a low level flat signal to the amp....

so here is what the output signal looks like, as you can see pretty flat:










to ensure that there is volume dependent equalization, here are plots of the signal at various volumes, as you can see, pretty consistent, aside from a 18khz bump at VERY low volumes (7 on the OEM setting)










I took apart a Mosconi remote bass controller and mounted the knob in one of the blank knockout panels infront of the shifter










Becuase the car uses a Mosconi 6to8 DSP processor, all tuning can be dune at the front seat using a Bluetooth connected laptop:










Now, onto the front stage. the Illusion midabass is installed in the oem lower door location.

first, two pairs of 16 gauge wires are run into the doors. in the new Gti this is a simple task by going underneath the stock molex plug. The reason i ran 2 16 guage instead of the single 14 guage i have going back to the amp is that they are eaiser to snake through and doubling them up would more than account for the differences in gauge.










knowing from past experience, i focused the sound proofing around the area of the midbass driver:










Then i fabricated two spacer baffles for the Illusion drivers, and coated them with truck bedliner to protect them against the elements. as you can see, they are just 1/2" MDF...anyone with a MKVI VW would know how crazy this is 










these baffles were then secured tot he door:










Now before mounting the speaker, let us take a closer look at the Illusion Carbon C6 component set. It is beautifully made, craftsmanship is superior than the old ones from memory, pay special attention to the tweeter, whcih features a material i have never seen before in a car audio speaker...a combination of copper and beryllium...quite cool!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

back to the door, the midbass driver was then secured to the baffle:



















and the back of t he door card recieved a combination of closed cell foam and deamplifer pro, to help decouple it from the metal door panel and quell resoanance around the speaker itself.










The process was then repeated on the passenger side:























































Moving to the tweeters...after talking wtih Nick Wingate, i aimed the tweters about 20 degress away from off axis...they are molded into the A pillars and covered in black premium grill cloth, with a texture similar to OEM material. the OEM vents are still retained. I just LOVE staring at the copper dome all day


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

onto the build pics of the pillars. first, i coated the oem pillar with resin, when it cured, it turns the grille cloth like covering of the oem pillar rock hard, hard enough for me to mold off of. then i cut out the rings for the tweeters, aimed them and attached them to the pillars:










then mold cloth was pulled, resin applied, allowed to cure and then a mixture of duraglass and resin was poured into the inside to render them almost solid:










next, body filler was applied and everyting sanded smooth and blended:










then, i painted them black so there is no color inconsistencies showing through the grille cloth:










and finally, i wrapped them with grille cloth, the tweeters were fitted, and grilles snapped back in...ready to go back into the car:



















next comes some wiring pics of the bundle running from the front to the back...they kinda suck becuase in order to see them, i had to peel back the carpet with one hand while trying to shoot with a shaky hand in the other...but the point is to show the bundle ziptied to the factory looms throughout...and secured down where they transitions underneath the seat into the hatch area:



























































































moving onto the hatch...well, if the owner had given me his oem cargo mat, this would have been waht it would look like with it in place on a daily basis...but because he didnt, i had to steal this pic off the web


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

beneath that, here is what you see. a fake floor at oem floor height, wrapped in grey carpet with two cutouts visible. you can tell the stock floor height was kept by the fact that the two hooks at the front corners of the hatch are still easily within reach.










Lift off the grilles and here is waht you see. three Mosconi Gladen One amps are at the front, from left to right, a 240.2 is bridged sending 700 watts to the subwoofer, the 120.2 powers the tweeters with 120 watts each, and a 240.2 sends 240 watts to each midbass. 

Speaking of the sub, it is a single illusion audio Carbon C12 shallow. with its beautiful front motor! everything is trimmed in white vinyl matching the exterior of the car, and thre are two grille openings next to the sub...they are there purely to bring cosmetic balance to the overall look, as i felt a T shaped opening would look kind of odd.  























































Now lets take a closer look at the C12...again, the fit and finish is superb, overall mounting depth is around 3", and total including the top of the motor, means i can fit this sub with a grille in a total space of around 4.5-4.75"...this is what allowed me to do a fake floor in this car without raising the height one bit 














































now onto the build pics of the trunk...

first i cut out a panel that is the bottom part of the subbox. the center cutout mimics the opening of the spare tire well. i also laid on a layer of foam on the backside to prevent any vibrations against the metal floor:



















i then built a wall of just .75", thought very small, this actually gives me an additional .2 cubic foot of air space to add to the space inside the well. 










next, i sound proofed the entire well, and then taped it all up:



















then, i laid the frame i just built ontop, and put down ten layers of fiberglass cloth, attaching itself to the frame at the top...forming a hybrid mdf/fiberglass enclosure bottom.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

once that was cured, i pulled it out of the car, and here is what it looks like:










the back end was sealed and on that surface went 10 more layers of glass:










I then coated the entire inside of the enclosure with heavy rubberized undercoating...why? well, it may help with resonance, but mostly, i was just bored waiting on a delivery and had a can laying around lol



















this is waht it looks like from the bottom:










then this was test fitted in the car, and i also marked the spots where i will add the rivet nuts:










i then installed 3 1/4-20 rivet nuts per side whcih will hold down the entire structure solidly:



















then i attached a top baffle to the enclosure, and started building spacers and supports for the sub and amps. the sub part i applied white vinyl:










i then mounted all the amps, the 6to8DSP, all the distrubtion and barrier strips, and prewired everything outside of the car. this leaves me less work bending over inside the hatch. all the cables are secrued every few inches with wiretie hold downs:



















this is the flush mounting spacer piece for the subwoofer before and after vinyl:



















this is the main cosmetic trim panel, before and after vinyl, andt hen with the mesh (with black carpet backing) attached:




























this is the top floor main section after capeting, i forgot to take a picture of it in bare wood form:










here are the grilles before and after carpting:




























and here are all the top floor piece together, after i dyed them slightly ligher to get it closer to the oem color. its not perfect but its a lil closer:










and finally, shots of all the wiring. also visible in the pics of the six bolts that seure the entire structure via those rivet nuts...each have its own lock washer and fender washer:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

*so..thats it... the important question is...how do they sound?

one word: AWESOME!!!

Going into it, i was a bit worried about the metalic dome on the tweeter...to be honest i have never heard a set of metal dome tweeters i liked...but i can no longer claim that!

Right out of the box, the set can best be described as natural...there is NOT AN OUNCE OF HARSHNESS in it...to be honest, they remind me a lot of how my beloved Seas Lotus Reference sound out of the box, airy, smooth, realistic...without even much tuning. the midbass is nice and full of impact, a definite improvement compared to the orignals, with good natural extension down to 60hz in this car. midrange is nice and smooth, and the highs, again, the highs are just really really really nice and realistic...

its very odd because i stare at the shiny metal domes and i keep on thinking they should sound a certain way, but they dont sound like that at all.

i barely had an hour of tuning time on it and the stage is nice and high, good width, very good depth IMO, the center is stable but i need to play with it a lil more tomorrow to get it more focused...

the subwoofer ALSO IMPRESSED me a lot...it had really good extension, on the RTA it was flat down to literally 20hz in the car...with no real bumps and valleys...it was fast, blended really well with the music, and the output is no joke...infact, if no one told me what it was in there, i would have guessed a full sized decent output 10" at the very least...perhaps a jl 10w6 or IDQ10V3...it certainly does NOT sound like a shallow sub...

i played some old school hiphop and it ruffled my hair and shook the mirror without any straining and odd noises...and keeping in mind its taking a full 700 watts!

infact, i would say very low distortion seems to be a theme on both the C6 and the C12...just so controlled...

So keeping in mind these are just my initial impressions, i am already really really happy with these....with more playing time and expereince, i have a feeling they will become one of my new favorite go to products in future builds. their unique design really lends itself to the kind of build that i like to do...

I am really happy Illusion Audio is back, and i am ecstatic that for once, an old school brand is back even better than before!

Now, there are some unique design factors incorporated into these produts...but i am like an anti-techgeek, so i am not going to even attempt to explain them...i will have Nick come here and chime in on this thread...and explain why they sound so darn good! 

infact, they the Illusion Audio stuff sounded so good that even Minion seemed to love it! 










Cheers!

Bing*


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## m0sdef (Nov 16, 2010)

Another awesome build Bing! Those component sets look nice!


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## 2wheelie (Jul 30, 2009)

Very nice as always. I'm planning the install for my mk6 and this will be a sticky for sure.

Love the data on the rns-315 too!


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

Minion looks very happy with the results.It's how I felt when I hit 'refresh',good job as always.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

I like it and I like it allot. Love the Illusion Audio products look very nice very nice indeed.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

thanks Mark..i am being told i will get to see some Arians this weekend


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

As always great build!!!! What's the price tag on these sets and how much power can they handle if you dont mind me asking.....


Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

simplicityinsound said:


> thanks Mark..i am being told i will get to see some Arians this weekend


Ah Yes sir, I do believe so.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

quickaudi07 said:


> As always great build!!!! What's the price tag on these sets and how much power can they handle if you dont mind me asking.....
> 
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


Msrp on the c6 is arounf the 1k mark iirc..i forgot what the c12 is have to check.

Well as u know power.handling number is a bit arbitrary...but the set did well with the 240 on midbass and 120 on tweeter. The c12 definitly.handled the.700 without much of an issue.

But dont.quote me on this...nick aks mitsugrn would be better at answering that 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

Nice as always. This car competing Saturday?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

papasin said:


> Nice as always. This car competing Saturday?


Thats the plan...real rough tune but we will see.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

very nice install....

It is nice to see Illusion back in the game


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## Ampman (Sep 7, 2011)

Although I've never heard of these before they do kinda stand out from the rest, the speakers appear to be made quite well, question though. Are Illusion products manufactured in America ? I don't recall seeing any statement about that thanks for any help and BTW a very good install


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

Thanks for another great build Bing!!!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I could see that sub finding itself in future up-front sub installs...... could be perfect for passenger footwell.... Great fit & finish once again..... Love the Mos amps.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Ampman said:


> Although I've never heard of these before they do kinda stand out from the rest, the speakers appear to be made quite well, question though. Are Illusion products manufactured in America ? I don't recall seeing any statement about that thanks for any help and BTW a very good install


they are designed here in the US by ORCA, but not made here, but not made in China either so thats good lol

they are made in India i believe.

b


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> I could see that sub finding itself in future up-front sub installs...... could be perfect for passenger footwell.... Great fit & finish once again..... Love the Mos amps.


there are a lot of advantages to the speakers...

i for one love the fact that i can quote these speakers into almost any car with a 6.5" location and i dont ever have to worry about, is there enought depth? and they sound so good that i dont ever hvae to attach "for a shallow speaker" at the end...

i rarely get this excited about a new product, but man these things i love, their performance, coupled with the name and that unique design 

Jason you need to hear one of these tweets for yourself and see what you think


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

simplicityinsound said:


> they are designed here in the US by ORCA, but not made here, but not made in China either so thats good lol
> 
> *they are made in India i believe.*
> 
> b


For the most part I know this to be true. I know of the builder.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Audible Physics said:


> For the most part I know this to be true. I know of the builder.


Peerless India

Products - PeerlessAudio.com



nice install as usual Bing


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

yeah i know the carbon is peerless india...however, i cannot yet speak about the luccent and electra lines, which are the mid and entry level lines respectively


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## Rishi S (Aug 22, 2012)

Excellently done


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

Quick noob question for you sir...I'm one of those few that have an integrated window assembly and speaker housing with only an inch to the glass and an inch to the interior panel. I'm actually thinking of buying the Zapco ZSL comp set, not because I enjoy spending that much money for comps but save me demo and install time which for me is worth it. 

Anyway, it's basic but how did you attach the mdf ring to the plastic? Nuts and bolts or what exactly? 

I used some black socket cap 8-32 screws and aluminum threaded posts with fender/lock washers but was thinking of ordering some threaded inserts (not brass) to mount in the plastic housing so I don't have to worry about the washers,nuts on the back side falling out when removing the speaker.... 

Thanks!


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

iirc, the mk6 turbo diesels have the spare tire hump but it can be removed. gasoline mk6s have fuel evaporator stuff under the hump. TDIs do not need this and it's vacant.

love the install, i'm trying to keep my spare though. (risk management? :shrug

did the owner keep the factory jack, lug adapters, etc? if so, where'd they go?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

niceguy said:


> Quick noob question for you sir...I'm one of those few that have an integrated window assembly and speaker housing with only an inch to the glass and an inch to the interior panel. I'm actually thinking of buying the Zapco ZSL comp set, not because I enjoy spending that much money for comps but save me demo and install time which for me is worth it.
> 
> Anyway, it's basic but how did you attach the mdf ring to the plastic? Nuts and bolts or what exactly?
> 
> ...


its simple, just holes, screws and speed nuts  no need to overly complicate something


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

nadams5755 said:


> iirc, the mk6 turbo diesels have the spare tire hump but it can be removed. gasoline mk6s have fuel evaporator stuff under the hump. TDIs do not need this and it's vacant.
> 
> love the install, i'm trying to keep my spare though. (risk management? :shrug
> 
> did the owner keep the factory jack, lug adapters, etc? if so, where'd they go?


all gone, on long trips, the spare tire can just be throw on top with some vital tools, its a trade off but to me, stealthiness and exra cargo space is always wroth it without limting yourself to a side box, or tiny subs or tiny amps 

i myself have been spareless for 12 years now
what do ou mean the hump can be removed? i though its an integrated part of the sheet metal? or is it detaachable some how? yeah the evap stuff is there for the gas models.

b

b


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

simplicityinsound said:


> what do ou mean the hump can be removed? i though its an integrated part of the sheet metal? or is it detaachable some how? yeah the evap stuff is there for the gas models.


a couple of the showcar tdi mk6 guys have removed the seals, ground the welds, and replaced it with a flat piece.


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## Dimitris (Jan 5, 2012)

A true masterpiece.Awesome work in an amazing car


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## Jboogie (Mar 13, 2007)

Awesome install! as usual..  

1 question for u. Why did u put the tweets in the pillar instead of in the sail panel on the door? Could u not get the imaging u wanted from the sail panel? 

Thanks.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Jboogie said:


> Awesome install! as usual..
> 
> 1 question for u. Why did u put the tweets in the pillar instead of in the sail panel on the door? Could u not get the imaging u wanted from the sail panel?
> 
> Thanks.


i always like to push the tweeters as far forward as possible for PLD and also better depths.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

nadams5755 said:


> a couple of the showcar tdi mk6 guys have removed the seals, ground the welds, and replaced it with a flat piece.


may on my own car, but i doubt i will do that to a customers car hehehe


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

simplicityinsound said:


> i always like to push the tweeters as far forward as possible for PLD and also better depths.


but there are tradeoffs. width usually suffers and there can be terrible reflections from the dash\windshield too.

you just gotta play around and find out what you think works best really.


awesome install bing. question on the molex's in the doors - you said you went under the molex... so through the speaker side, through the rubber tube, and around the molex? im about to do my wifes 2011 golf and im curious about that part.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

simplicityinsound said:


> i always like to push the tweeters as far forward as possible for PLD and also better depths.


Plus so they wont get wet when its raining and you open the door


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## Jboogie (Mar 13, 2007)

req said:


> but there are tradeoffs. width usually suffers and there can be terrible reflections from the dash\windshield too.
> 
> you just gotta play around and find out what you think works best really.


Thats exactly why i was asking. Im wanting to avoid reflections. Still a rock solid build.


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## BrianAbington (Jul 27, 2012)

Where is the website with all the new illusion stuff? I can't find anything about them or orca in any search I do.

I loved these back in the day...I saw only one car at a show in KC years ago that had a pair of the big subs in an infinite baffel configuration, and the neon in the trunk would lite up the cones from behind. It looked really cool in the dark.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

Awesome again,


BING - Dude you get all new ORCA items first , must be nice


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## SoundJunkie (Dec 3, 2008)

BrianAbington said:


> Where is the website with all the new illusion stuff? I can't find anything about them or orca in any search I did
> 
> Here you go
> 
> ...


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

DAT said:


> Awesome again,
> 
> 
> BING - Dude you get all new ORCA items first , must be nice


He wasn't the first, haha.


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## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

Amazing job Bing, nice european mix of power haha...

Also really nice baskets on those drivers, solidness is visible on the pics alone.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

req said:


> but there are tradeoffs. width usually suffers and there can be terrible reflections from the dash\windshield too.
> 
> you just gotta play around and find out what you think works best really.
> 
> ...


any and all newer VWs and also BMWs you can do this on. once you unsnap the molex, you can see the gap underneath the part thats on the car itself. snake wires through, the other side bundle with the rest of the wire push it throught he rubber, and into the door 

b


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

yeah it varies on car, but to me, i always prefer the A pillar mounting. i can deal with windshield reflections usually, but some saile panels in certain cars, tend to fire right into the side of the instrument shroud, which presents it own reflection...not to mention most of the tweeters i use, wont have a prayer of fitting into the sail panel location and if i have to mold out, then i guess i always prefer A pillars..

as far as width goes...thats kind of odd sometimes, i have heard all sorts of width from both locations, so its not guranteed, it comes down to tuning and the car itself.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

the illusion audio site should be up soon...i heard GREAT things about the 4" midrange...i am planning on doing a full out SQ build with a 3 way setup, with perhaps the 8" midwoofer, the 4" mid and the tweeter...

i am the shallowness of the woofer really opens up possibilities, not just in doors, but also in kicks, i am sure many of you, when molding kicks, wished you could have molded a large kick area wise, but very shallow and not protrusive  well...this will get you there. 

if i keep my own car, i am thinking of redoing the kicks with these, would save me at least 2-3" of depth.

b


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## Octave (Dec 12, 2010)

You beat me to working with the Illusion stuff. I have a system on the docket similar to what you have described below. Tweeter, 4", 8' and the flat 12" active on Mosconi AS. Just too many jobs in front of it. Can't get to it fast enough.  



simplicityinsound said:


> the illusion audio site should be up soon...i heard GREAT things about the 4" midrange...i am planning on doing a full out SQ build with a 3 way setup, with perhaps the 8" midwoofer, the 4" mid and the tweeter...


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

you mean like these kick panels?


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## iasca judge (Jan 5, 2010)

I was lucky enough to spend some time in a truck this weekend at knowledgefest that was running this same speaker setup. I must say that they are very impressive


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Octave said:


> You beat me to working with the Illusion stuff. I have a system on the docket similar to what you have described below. Tweeter, 4", 8' and the flat 12" active on Mosconi AS. Just too many jobs in front of it. Can't get to it fast enough.


That's a good problem to have. LOL

Jay


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## 11blueGTI (Apr 24, 2011)

Very nice. I have a 2012 GTI that I am looking to do a system on so this gives me some ideas. Any ideas what the deepest midbass I could fit in there?


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

JayinMI said:


> That's a good problem to have. LOL
> 
> Jay


Not for me, LOL


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

11blueGTI said:


> Very nice. I have a 2012 GTI that I am looking to do a system on so this gives me some ideas. Any ideas what the deepest midbass I could fit in there?


You have a ton of room in there. 3.5" without even trying hard.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

acutally Paul, the MKVI has VERY limited space behind the speaker opening...there is a plastic basket about 1"-1.25" behind the opening that you cannot cut because the window track is riveted to it. also, you can space out a maximum of maybe .75" to 1" before the sepaker hits the door card...

so my opinion is if you want t he speaker to fit comfortably, find one with a mounting depth of no more than 2 to 2.25" max.


you can see that basket thing in this picture:


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

He's done it again!

This guy is _unstoppable!_


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

Very well done! I'd love hear a set of these in person. I bet they sound amazing. Any idea what the sub goes for? I'm guessing somewhere in the $1k territory?


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## [email protected] (May 18, 2012)

Looks great Bing! I always look forward to your builds. I just did one of those cars last week, stealth enclosure on the driver side, nothing flashy. It's nothing compared to this build


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Well I guess since the comp are close to 1k$ i'm sure the sub is over 1$K ....


Would you like to come by and finish my trunk up? i don't have any motivation to do it lol


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

The c12 should be retailing in the 850 dollar range. There is also a midline luccent version thats significantly cheaper. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings all!!

Now that the Illusion Audio product is really here I have been asked to put up on line the entire line-up for Illusion Audio. There will be a brief summary of the technology that was used in designing and implementing each part of the line-up. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to email me or just ask here and I will do my best to answer you!

Nick

ILLUSION AUDIO 


CARBON SERIES

C4 4" midrange/Tweeter/X-over system Carbon/paper woven cone 
Be/Cu dome tweeter
+/- 5.5 mm of Xmax 3.4 cm depth

C5 5.25" midrange/tweeter/xover system Same as above except
+/- 5.5mm of Xmax 4.3 cm depth

C6 6.5" midrange/tweeter/ xover system Same as above except
+/- 6.7mm of Xmax 5.3 cm depth

C8 8" midrange/tweeter/xover system Same as above except
+/- 8mm of xmax 5.6 cm depth
TL25 BeCu Copper/Beryllium dome tweeter


C4CX (CX denotes Coincident driver) 4" phase coherent driver w/TL25BeCu tweeter
w/seperate x-over
C5CX 5.25" phase coherent driver Same as above

C6CX 6.5" phase coherent driver Same as above

C10 Shallow mount 10" subwoofer sealed box design for .7 cuft.
mounting depth 7.6 cm +/- 10mm of xmax

C12 Shallow mount 12" subwoofer sealed box design for 1.0 cuft.
mounting depth 8.3 cm +/- 12 mm of xmax

C10XL 10" Standard size subwoofer DVC design sealed box design
long throw woofer +/- 18mm of xmax
high power handling

C12XL 12" Standard size subwoofer DVC design sealed box design
long throw woofer +/- 18mm of xmax
high power handling

COMMON TO ALL CARBON SERIES SPEAKERS

Woven Carbon fibre cone with elastomeric damping, butyl rubber surround
with a Conex spider.

Cast Aluminum Baskets

Slim inverted neodymium motors

XBL voice coil design for minimum distortion levels and maximize loudness
with a copper ring to minimize the distortion at full output.

BeCu dome tweeter design with an aluminum air chamber that also acts as
a heat sink.

CX drivers are all of a coincident (point source) design for the smoothest
off axis frequency response.


LUCENT SERIES

L5 5.25" Midrange/Tweeter/Xover speaker system 


L6 6.5" Same as above 

( The L5 and L6 have the same mounting depth as the C5 and C6)

TL 25 Sn Silk dome tweeter designed for the LUCCENT Series

L5CX 5.25" coincident driver with external crossover

L6CX 6.5" coincident driver with external crossover

L6CX and L5CX use the TL 25 Sn tweeter

L10 Shallow mount Subwoofer Same mounting depth as C10
 Sealed box design .7cuft 

L12 Shallow mount subwoofer Same mounting depth as C12
Sealed box design 1.0 cuft.

COMMON TO ALL LUCCENT SERIES SPEAKERS

Polypropylene cones

Butyl rubber surrounds

Cast Aluminum Baskets

Slim inverted neodymium motors

Silk dome tweeters with aluminum air chambers that also act as heat sinks

LCX drivers are all coincident (point source) drivers for the smoothest 
off axis response.

ELECTRA SERIES

E4 4" two way system with separate crossover 

E5 5.25" two way system with separate crossover

E6 6.5" two way system with separate crossover

T 25 An aluminum dome tweeter

EX 4 4" coaxial driver

EX5 5.25" coaxial driver

EX6 6.5" coaxial driver

EX5X7 5x7 coaxial driver

EX6X9 6x9 coaxial driver

E10 Standard mount 10" subwoofer Sealed box design .7cuft

E12 Same as above Sealed box design 1.0 cuft.

COMMON TO ALL ELECTRA SERIES SPEAKERS

Titanium coated injection molded polypropylene cone's

Butyl Rubber surround with poly-cotton spiders

Steel baskets

Ceramic magnets

Aluminum dome tweeters

Coaxial tweeter is the exact same tweeter used in the seperates.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Thanks Nick! now i am interested in those point source drivers  i always love a good pointsource!


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## TimmyG (Aug 24, 2012)

Sick build!


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Bing, I'll have a set of the C6CX speakers in my hands (again) in early september, and I'll be in LA, well...Irvine.


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!

I made a slight mistake on the C4CX driver. It is not an XBL motor. The C5CX and C6CX are. My mistake. Sorry about that!

Nick


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## iasca judge (Jan 5, 2010)

We will forgive you this time nick. 

Jim


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## 11blueGTI (Apr 24, 2011)

Any idea where I can get a set of the C6CX? I am mostly interested in the midbass cause I want to go 3 way with a scan mid and already have rainbow tweeters. Now that I know what my depth requirements are. I have a set of Boston SPZ60s I was planning on using with 2.65" mounting depth and 24mm peak to peak xmax


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

11blueGTI said:


> Any idea where I can get a set of the C6CX? I am mostly interested in the midbass cause I want to go 3 way with a scan mid and already have rainbow tweeters. Now that I know what my depth requirements are. I have a set of Boston SPZ60s I was planning on using with 2.65" mounting depth and 24mm peak to peak xmax


Talk to me...ur local dealer 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

car had a great debute today in MECA sq comps, won its class and garnered some good comments all around. now just need to really tune it


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

simplicityinsound said:


> car had a great debute today in MECA sq comps, won its class and garnered some good comments all around. now just need to really tune it


Got some seat time in the car and enjoyed it! I kept on staring at the tweeters trying to convince myself my ears were hearing something else . Also love the extension.


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## Schnitz (Jun 26, 2008)

How does the C12 compare to the SI BM mkiii?

It really goes without saying - fantastic build!!!


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

Hey bing nice job, nice equipment, wish illusion still made their horns,even if they just made the horn body?those tweeters remind me of the old canton tweeters, they were made from manganese and had butyl rubber surrounds, took the edginess out of the hard dome tweeter sound, jl adopted this on their hardomes. The biggest problem I had with illusions subs back in the day,was that because the cone was open to the back of the driver it always had a lot of loss,they made a lot of air movement noise in sealed boxes,hopefully they've solved this problem.they sounded fantastic in vented.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Schnitz said:


> How does the C12 compare to the SI BM mkiii?
> 
> It really goes without saying - fantastic build!!!



i would need a bit more time with the two drivers side by side to give any real accurate impression.

but the SI i have always installed in a tiny enclosure, so i cannot say what it would like in a bigger one.

but from my fuzzy memory.

i think the C12 is slightly a better SQ sub, it really dissappears. it may be a bit faster...

outputwise, i cannot say which is more...both seem to do really well..

extension wise, again, both are excellent, and this maybe a function of this car rather than the sub, but the C12 in this car had awesome low freq ext, on my RTA it showed a flat response down to 20hz. on the 370z for example, i remember seeing a natural trail off at around 25-30...but again, likely the car, or amp, not the sub.

keep in mind that even if the SI is still made, its at a very different price point than the illusion.

again, this is just my best guess from memory, dont quote me on it, i wont know unless one day i get to do an AB listening demo ont he two, but wtih the SI no longer available, its a MOO point (a cows perspective )


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

jpeezy said:


> Hey bing nice job, nice equipment, wish illusion still made their horns,even if they just made the horn body?those tweeters remind me of the old canton tweeters, they were made from manganese and had butyl rubber surrounds, took the edginess out of the hard dome tweeter sound, jl adopted this on their hardomes. The biggest problem I had with illusions subs back in the day,was that because the cone was open to the back of the driver it always had a lot of loss,they made a lot of air movement noise in sealed boxes,hopefully they've solved this problem.they sounded fantastic in vented.



i heard so such noise, most likely becuase there is what appears to be a rubber gasket around the pole for the motor that seals the cone against it...

i think more so than the original noise issue, a bigger problem was stuff falling into the gap and if its metalic in nature, it can be bad juju...i think this sub solves both of those issues together.

but again, i will leave the real explanation for Nick 

b


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

have any shots of the battery & inline fuse under the hood? i'm interested to see how you integrated with it. thanks!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Unless its changed drastically under the hood (pretty sure it didn't) you can add a bolt to the OEM buss bar at the battery. It's what I did in mine.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

should be still the same system, but i always have my single 0 guage directly going to the battery terminal...feels more secure to me for some reason...lol and its fully protected by the cover, it comes out of a grommet i put in onto the side of the cover.

but i am sure you are fine with using it off the strip.


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## Schnitz (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks for your thoughts on the SI comparison.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Audible Physics said:


> For the most part I know this to be true. I know of the builder.


Peerless India?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

simplicityinsound said:


> should be still the same system, but i always have my single 0 guage directly going to the battery terminal...feels more secure to me for some reason...lol and its fully protected by the cover, it comes out of a grommet i put in onto the side of the cover.
> 
> but i am sure you are fine with using it off the strip.



It's the OEM distribution point so I can't see how it could be bad but I understand your point as well. The bar is covered as well. First by the wrap-around plastics (I ran the cable itself under the battery in the OEM conduit) then by the plastic lid.


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## Vegas Vince (Aug 3, 2011)

Bing-
love it... for all the VW's you do, VW should contact you to be their 12v installer lol...


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## kampfer360 (Apr 20, 2008)

where can i get a pair of speakers? Any dealers near Charlotte NC or any websites selling it? Need price info.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I forgot who sold Focal in the Charlotte area...I don't know anyone local who carries it.


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## kampfer360 (Apr 20, 2008)

i know a couple dealers who sell focal but i doubt they'll have illusion because the name isn't "big" enough for them.


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## Lunchbox12 (Sep 4, 2011)

Bing, your installs are truly exceptional testaments to detail. It is evident that you have a huge love for car audio just like so many others on this site. 
Your work has helped me restore my faith that there are car audio installers and shops out there that are worth seeking.
PLease keep up the fantastic work!
JJ


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Hey guys...already on my to tahoe for vacation. ..

Of u guys wanna to get it...i suggest u call up orcadesign...say u saw this build and wanted to find ur local dealer or get ur local focal dealer to carry it. 

Helps me helps u helps everyone 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Who around here has Focal now?

Same company doing Illusion that does Focal...so I'm sure even if they didn't bring the whole line in they could get a few pieces here and there.



kampfer360 said:


> i know a couple dealers who sell focal but i doubt they'll have illusion because the name isn't "big" enough for them.


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

Mitsu1grn said:


> Greetings all!!
> XBL voice coil design


Interesting, didn't see that coming.

I just skimmed the thread, was MSRP of the C12 & C12XL ever posted?

Anyone got an idea of when the T/S will be available on the website?


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

I've got a good amount of the specs for the illusion lineup


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Rs roms (Jul 12, 2012)

Now this is the perfect install one can dream for. Two thumbs up for you bing


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## pdqwrx (Aug 1, 2009)

Hello everyone- My name is Scott and I am the ORCA rep in Nor Cal. I thought I would address a few of the unanswered questions from throughout this thread.

First off, thank you Bing for allowing us the opportunity to be a part of one of your builds. You have more choices then most retailers and the fact that you keep choosing us is something we are thankful for.

Now, These (The line) are made in India but were fundamentally redesigned by Allen of ORCA. Many don't realize that ORCA's name is actually ORCA Design and Manufacturing. Unlike many other "Importers", ORCA is working with a build house to build this product and they have procured world distribution rights to the Illusion Audio Brand. Allen, Duane and crew have worked very hard over the last 24 months or so to get these awesome products from conception to musical reproduction and I can say that it has been a journey. So, Illusion Audio is more ORCA then Peerless at this point.

The website will be up shortly. They have a few production pieces of each model that they are taking pictures and testing for the website and other sales materials. Actual stocking product will be here in a few weeks.

As for dealers...... Each rep will be working with ORCA to set up the right dealers in each territory. Bing's suggestion to call ORCA is correct. It is still a little early so give them a few weeks to start setting up dealers. It's hard to sell into a store when you don't actually have product to ship. This line will not automatically be available in all Focal dealers. We believe that Illusion represents a different performance envelope then Focal and it is important for us to make sure that we partner with the best Illusion dealer (With or without Focal).

We appreciate all your interest and support and humbly ask that you be patient. I have heard most of this line and can tell you it will be worth the wait. 

Also, stay tuned as I think Bing might have another Illusion surprise build up his sleeve and from what I am reading between the lines, this one should be really cool.

Thanks again
Scott Baughman
Reliable Product Marketing


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## Turtl3Sh3ll (May 3, 2012)

Once again, great build !!!!!


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!

I have an addendum to the Illusion Audio information I posted a few days ago. A few things have changed that I was unaware of. Sorry about that! At any rate, here is the addendum:

C4 The woofer cone is a woven Carbon Fiber with elastomeric damping with 
a 25 mm BeCu dome tweeter

C4Cx It has a 14 mm aluminum coincident tweeter. (have this in my car now)

C5Cx has the same 14mm coincident aluminum tweeter.

C6Cx 25mm BeCu tweeter coincident design

C10Xl and C12XL Woven Carbon Fiber Laminated to Paper cones.

L5Cx Coincident 14mm Silk Dome tweeter used

L6Cx Same as above

E4, E5, E6, E5X7, E6X9 all are using an a 25mm Aluminum dome twt.

Hope that clears up any questions anyone may have!


Nick


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## ffranks (Apr 27, 2012)

Hi Nick,

How would you compare the sound of the C4CX’s to the C4’s and do you have these mounted in your dash?


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!!

The C4Cx's are in my kickpanel firing straight across in my Challenger. The stage is very high and very wide and depth is pretty good with almost no tune in it! Being a full range driver and having the luxury of a Be6W3 in each door gives me maximum flexibility in crossover points between drivers. Right now, the C4Cx's are playing from 300hz and up with a LW-R 24db per octave slope. Really am enjoying the midrange detail, especially from 800hz to 300hz, very neutral with extension. I know that the driver will play down to 150hz, but giving the music I listen to, (classical Pipe Organ), I don't want to stress the drivers! Imagine that!

As to the difference between the two drivers there really is not any until you get above 3k and that is where the tweeter starts to take over in the C4CX. So far I am very happy with the overall sound I am getting from the drivers. Is it Be territory? No, not by a long shot. They are very good and being a coincident driver makes tuning a breeze! Way easier to get phasing correct when the driver already is!!! LOL!!!

I will be working on some aspects of getting the bass to midrange transition better in the car today. Shouldn't take too much to do!! 

Nick


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## nutdotnet (Sep 5, 2012)

You mentioned that since the VW had the DynaAudio setup that you didn't need to re-code the hu. Is this something you typically have to do with non-DynaAudio setups?

Also - this may not be the appropriate place to ask but do you happen to have any recommendations on speakers that have the 2" or so mounting depth that are more budget-friendly? I'm personally looking into upgrading my stock system but I want things to be as "plug-n-play" as possible.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

nutdotnet said:


> You mentioned that since the VW had the DynaAudio setup that you didn't need to re-code the hu. Is this something you typically have to do with non-DynaAudio setups?
> 
> Also - this may not be the appropriate place to ask but do you happen to have any recommendations on speakers that have the 2" or so mounting depth that are more budget-friendly? I'm personally looking into upgrading my stock system but I want things to be as "plug-n-play" as possible.


define budget friendly? There is the Illusion Luccent line that is a little more budget friendly. 

As for the recode in VAGcom, it's only necessary if you do not want to run an interface device. The recode to the amplified option gives you low level output from the head unit. Otherwise just use a high to low level interface and you're good.


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## nutdotnet (Sep 5, 2012)

cobb2819 said:


> define budget friendly? There is the Illusion Luccent line that is a little more budget friendly.
> 
> As for the recode in VAGcom, it's only necessary if you do not want to run an interface device. The recode to the amplified option gives you low level output from the head unit. Otherwise just use a high to low level interface and you're good.


I'd like to keep my budget ~ $1500 for everything (speakers, sub, sub box, amps, and materials). I'll keep the stock HU and install myself.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

You'll need the LOC either way. I recoded mine and fed it into my B1.1 and it sounded terrible. Nothing I did fixed it until I added an LOC. I even tried it with DC Refs and it still had problems.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2012)

Love the new Illusion Audio products... Those components look very interesting.


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## DonH (Jun 25, 2009)

beautiful and elegant writeup and build! you did Illusion justice. I have heard only two illusion drivers and they are astounding, coupled with the mosconi amplifiers it must be amazing. Nice build!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

nutdotnet said:


> I'd like to keep my budget ~ $1500 for everything (speakers, sub, sub box, amps, and materials). I'll keep the stock HU and install myself.


you can prolly get the luccent set of illusion audio 6.5" driver into that budget, and go with a lower line amp such as the mosconi M series, and a relatiely modest subwoofer in the 10-12" suze. subbox? depends on where you get it and what type...

but i can see that happening. 

b


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

I could see that working for a slightly higher budget. The Luccent components are $750


Sent from my iPhone


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## nutdotnet (Sep 5, 2012)

Thank you for the info guys. Very helpful!


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## chevyrider96 (Mar 5, 2010)

Nice work. Hard work sure pays off!


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Bing how about you move to IL to do my trunk and tune 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

there are far better people closer to you on both items


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## XaznKewLguyX (Sep 5, 2007)

thats hawt!


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## watts (Oct 11, 2012)

Long time lurker - first time poster. I apologize if you have explained this before. Can you explain how you secure the carpeted trim panels? I'm interested to know for a future project. I'm not refering to the inserts that cover the amps/sub but the carpeted trim panel that covers the wiring.

Thanks in advance for you assistance!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

if you mean the top floor, its screwed down into the supports below  i do a bigger counter sink in the wood, then shoot screws into it, and then i fuzz the carpet around it to hide the screw


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## watts (Oct 11, 2012)

Simple enough! I figured you had some sort of extravagant blind fastener system or something...thanks'


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

sometimes simple is best


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Once again, I've been inspired by Bing's work!

I think I'm going to start using rivet nuts


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

simplicityinsound said:


> acutally Paul, the MKVI has VERY limited space behind the speaker opening...there is a plastic basket about 1"-1.25" behind the opening that you cannot cut because the window track is riveted to it. also, you can space out a maximum of maybe .75" to 1" before the sepaker hits the door card...
> 
> so my opinion is if you want t he speaker to fit comfortably, find one with a mounting depth of no more than 2 to 2.25" max.
> 
> ...


**** me running. My QSD216s are 2.5" deep... I'm going to get the door apart this weekend but right now nothing on the MkVI is as easy as the MkV. I can't use my D800, I might not be able to use my Quarts, still unsure about my amps. It would be nice if SOMETHING I already own and like would fit.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

give it a shot first man, i want to get a second opinion on this fitment thing.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I'll get the doors apart this week/weekend and see what's up. If they don't work you'll be hearing from me. I must be getting old but I'm WAY past the point of doing a ton of work to get gear into my cars anymore. I think I just need to start paying people... lol


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Yeah, you weren't kidding on that regulator. What a stupid ass design. Oy...

Anyway, here's what I got this afternoon:
In the pic (regulator to the speaker mounting surface) in looks like 1.75" but in person it looked like a hair over 1.5".









In this pic (speaker mounting surface to top of the OEM speaker) it looks like 1 5/8" but I'd already drilled out the rivets so it's really more like 1.5".









Based on all this a 3" deep driver should _theoretically_ fit in there. The OEM speaker, if it touches the OEM seal on the door panel it only just touches it so going all the way up to that height should be pretty safe. 

I stacked 1/2" mdf rings (I had it on hand) and that's a bit shorter than the OEM speaker and it clears the regulator as well so all should be good. 

YAY! SOMETHING FITS!!! lol


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Hey Bing, 

I noticed you leave the hood release on when you pull the driver's side kick panel. I got some shots of how to remove it. It's very easy and takes about 2 seconds. 

Also, where'd you mount the fuse holder? They moved some things on the Mk6 and I'm not having any luck finding a good spot for the fuse holder. 

Thanks Bing!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i usually put the circuit breaker next to the battery box...i need to find a pic of it...i think i put it right infront of the box, i dont remember where though right now as i am turning senile lol

i think the 3" speaker depends on how big the magnet is...a speaker like a MBQ would be fine due to its small motor structure, you get one like a seas lotus or arc black, and it cant go back all the way...then its a bit of an issue.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I think for '13 it changed. Mine doesn't have the hard battery box that my Rabbit and GTI did. It's got a soft cover now. Booooo

I mounted the fuse holder on top of the OEm fuse box. Not ideal but it'll work. Now I need to get to Home Depot to get a new nut and bolt for the terminal so I can cut the OEM one off and actually connect the power wire to the battery. 

Yeah, I can see that. The angled arms would definitely block a lot of motors. The Illusions and the small Quart motors are a good thing to have in this car. 

Ze Germans always make everything difficult! lol


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

m6 for the battery terminal.

i put the hood release handle back on so i could operate the hood after i removed the kick panel


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Yep, picked up the bolt, lock washer, nut and lock nut last night and swapped it out tonight.


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

cool, are you doing a build thread either here or mk6?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I will when I'm done. It's gonna be REALLY simple though.


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## BurnOut956 (Sep 3, 2007)

simplicityinsound said:


> sometimes simple is best


I agree 100%


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Hey Bing,

Question about the door deadening. I'm getting HORRENDOUS resonance and rattling/buzzing from my doors. At first I wasn't sure if it was the speakers, the door, the door panel, the OEM wiring, or the regulator so I pulled the panel off last week and it's absolutely the regulator. Nothing else even makes a peep. Mine are so bad that I can't really cross any lower than 150Hz @ 24dB without it getting NASTY. When I had the panel off I went all the down to 24Hz @ 12dB and the speakers were fine but the door, on the other hand...

Did this car have any issues like that? Before or after deadening?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

that sounds more like the particular speaker, i ant imagine its the regulator. did you see the file i used on this car? i cant remembrer if i sent it to you for not. but that wasnt an issue after tuning what so ever.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

No, you said you didn't keep it. Pressing certain parts of the regulator definitely makes a difference so I don't THINK it's the drivers, but who knows. 

I'm really trying hard to resist changing them out.


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