# 50mil vs 80mil



## SafariLS1 (May 2, 2010)

iv bought a lot of 50mil sound damping in the past but was wondering with my new build should i go with 80mil? is there a BIG difference between the two?


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

The difference is about 30mil... but if we're talking edead here I'd do some more research, my understanding is that they use a mylar backing instead of foil, which pretty much makes it useless.


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## SafariLS1 (May 2, 2010)

DaveRulz said:


> The difference is about 30mil... but if we're talking edead here I'd do some more research, my understanding is that they use a mylar backing instead of foil, which pretty much makes it useless.


30mil diff u dont say? lol i obviously knew that. but is there a big performance gain over 50? and im not looking at edead. im looking at fatmat


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## littlejuanito (Apr 29, 2010)

SafariLS1 said:


> 30mil diff u dont say?


LOL!!!!

I love thos replies. They make my day.


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

Fatmat is no better than edead, I'd recommend talking to Ant at Second Skin (owns this site), or Don at Sound Deadener Showdown.


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## spmpdr (Nov 5, 2009)

SafariLS1 said:


> 30mil diff u dont say? lol i obviously knew that. but is there a big performance gain over 50? and im not looking at edead. im looking at fatmat



STAY AWAY FROM FATMAT I REPEAT STAY AWAY FROM FAT MAT!!!IF you dont have experience with them already then you should know : there stuff made my rig smell like roofing tar, I bought the 80 mil and it was still thin and made little to no difference in queiting my vehicle I ended up doubling it to get any noticeable difference .very cheaply made crap and the customer service is horrible as well


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

Don't use fatmat either, unless you stay in an area where it stays fairly cool most of the time. If it gets hot in the summer then you will regret using fatmat. It will melt all over your doors since it is asphalt based.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

If you need something good but are on a budget, I can report that I have had excellent success with Rick's RAAMmat BXTII product. Not BXTI, but the II version. Big difference to say the least.

Avoid at all costs Fatmat and other materials like it.


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

DaveRulz said:


> The difference is about 30mil...


My point was I could already tell you were talking about ****ty product, talk to Ant or Don (or Rick at Raamat) as was mentioned. You'll be thankful you did.


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## zachcopp (Mar 8, 2010)

+1 for RAAMmat


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## cbrei1023 (Dec 2, 2008)

I dont know why people dont like eDead. I had some leftover from some work that I did in my cavalier. It worked good in my cavalier and its holding up fine in my Saturn. Did its job fine. Dirt cheap too. It hasnt begun to fall off or anything. No smell... Dunno, works great for me.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

LOL. I have pics of a build I did... ALL the eDead we put on fell back off. There's piles of it in the trunk. Stupid crap. eDead V1SE was the product.


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## cbrei1023 (Dec 2, 2008)

eDead 45 is what i was using. Like I said, never had any problems with it falling off. Maybe its the climate here. Doesnt get too hot, usually tops around 95. Sometimes bump into the low 100s but its been a while for that. If it ever does fail on me though, im sure id switch to second skin or something. But as long as it does its job im happy.


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## figgie (May 19, 2010)

Hi guys,

I don't see dynamat on here. *Don't shoot me*!  Aside from price, what other downsides are there? Are they the monster cable of the sound dampning world? IE Priced high for what they offer.

Please no "I heard", "I feel", "i know someone.." etc.

I am a person that goes by objective data. So facts only please.


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

Unfortunately when Don (Rudeboy on this site) of Sound Deadener Showdown started offering his own products, we lost the ONE unbiased voice we had on sound deadener comparisons. That is not to say that Don is now suddenly biased and should not be listened to, Don is one of the most straightforward and honest people I have run across, he offers a great product, and does not bash competing products based on anything other than observed facts.

You can check sounddeadenershowdown.com on the wayback machine to see some of the information that was on his comparison site. Although from what I've seen it's only some of the older information. Don tested pretty much everything back then, and his findings were that there are some brands that are complete garbage, no matter what their marketing people tell you (fatmat is just peel and seal that you can get in your roofing supply section of Home depot; edead uses inferior mylar backing vs aluminum which makes it basically useless for the purpose of deadening since it can no longer dissipate vibration as heat, etc etc) Don conducted many tests, in the most objective fashion he could. Some refuted his results, but he put an honest effort forth to help people make wise decisions about materials they use for quieting their vehicles. What he found was that there is a better approach than simply applying layer after layer of constrained layer dampener, and this is the method that he promotes with his new products. 

From his old findings, regular old dynamat did not perform very well, as it was asphalt based (I think) Dynamat extreme did great, but did not perform significantly better than Second Skin or RAAMmat which were available at a much lower price point. Keep in mind if you use the wayback machine to see his old site that many of those products have been reformulated since. 

Regardless, I consider Don THE VOICE on sound deadening. Why? Because he started out as DIY'er just like us and decided to objectively evaluate what was available. Through his research, he had a few revelations, and has come up with what most will agree is a GREAT approach to silencing a car. Along the way, he helped EVERYONE that he could, and always approaches arguments with a no BS attitude. He is straightforward, and always honest from what I have seen. 

I have no affiliation with Don, but if you're considering quieting your car, I wouldn't hesitate to reach out to him for advice. I can't believe that he would steer you wrong just to try and sell some more product.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Agree on the Don comment, he's a smart cookie in this field for sure. So is Ant though, so give him credit.

Nothing wrong with Dynamat Xtreme at all... just not worth the money unless you are getting a roughly 70-80% discount over retail. Then we're talking. In fact, that's how I ended up using Xtreme on a lot of my earlier builds...perks of being in the biz at the time I suppose.

But these days, I'd roll SS, Don's stuff, or RAAMmat BXTII. And BXTII so far has been amazingly good stuff...far better than I thought it would be. Don's tiles are exceptionally thick and solid, and I really like his choice for thick foam. Importantly, don't blow your wad of money just on CLD. Make sure to hit the trifecta of materials, the constrained layer damper, the barrier, and the foam decoupler/rattle trap. Get 'er done.


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## pat_smith1969 (Feb 17, 2010)

I just did most of my car using FatMat. I found it to be easy to work with with absolutely no odor. I was sure to get the version that is Butyl based and not asphalt based. For those of you not liking the product... could you be thinking of an older product by them?

From all the posts I read the Fatmat type product isn't really supposed to reduce noise per se.. rather it is there to reduce virbrations and the transfer of noise via vibrations. Everything I have read says that as long as it has a low ... I forget the right word here... "bounce factor??" (i.e. it doesnt transmit vibrations very well)...it is doing it's job. And it isn't until you start using Mass Loaded Vinyl that you start to really hear a difference in the noise level of your car. I have read a bunch of posts on this, even ones written by the Damplifier dude (which were the best BTW), and they all say this. 


For that reason I chose Fatmat with a layer of LLP on top. I am using a cheaper MLV for the areas of my car I can get to later and re-do if I am unhappy. BUt for the "Big Money" areas (under the front and back seats, along the exhaust tunel, up as far as I can on the Firewall) I went with the best... Luxury Liner Pro.


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## figgie (May 19, 2010)

So Dynamat extreme is "good", would be better if not for the price?

Good to know


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Yes Exactly, quite good.


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## SafariLS1 (May 2, 2010)

wow thanks guys. so where is the best place to buy the brands your talkin about?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

They are all direct.

www.sounddeadenershowdown.com

secondskinaudio.com

RAAMaudio

GO!


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## da Vinci (Jun 10, 2009)

fourthmeal said:


> They are all direct.
> 
> 
> secondskin.com
> ...


Correction - Second Skin


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## bfowler (Nov 25, 2009)

DaveRulz said:


> The difference is about 30mil... but if we're talking edead here I'd do some more research, my understanding is that they use a mylar backing instead of foil, which pretty much makes it useless.



yeah, i found that out too late.

i installed it. it "works" but it requires a ton more work. its own weight and adhesion can't keep it down in corners so you have to cut many recess cuts to make it stay down. 

the 80 mil works great though.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

I prefer using thinner deadener and doubling up where/if needed. It's just easier to work with, cut, lay down, etc.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

da Vinci said:


> Correction - Second Skin



LOL! Yeah, a porn site popped up with the first one. GREAT, now my work thinks I click on porn. Sorry about that.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Appreciate the kind words guys.



fourthmeal said:


> Importantly, don't blow your wad of money just on CLD. Make sure to hit the trifecta of materials, the constrained layer damper, the barrier, and the foam decoupler/rattle trap. Get 'er done.


This really is important. The "trifecta" may not be what you need, but define your goals and find a solution that matches. If noise mitigation is part of the package, the trifecta will be the way to go.

Dynamat Xtreme is a very good product, no doubt about it. Multiple layers of thin materials are going to be less effective than a single thickness of a product designed to damp the substrate you're working with. The further you get from the sheet metal, the less effective the treatment. Subsequent layers damp the layer immediately below, which shouldn't present a resonance problem in the first place.

During most of the 4 years I was running Sound Deadener Showdown as a review site, the argument was whether asphalt products were reliable enough to justify their inferior durability in light of their lower cost. As it turns out, asphalt is such a poor vibration damper and you need so much more to even approach the performance of material designed for vibration damping that the value proposition completely collapses. It may be better than nothing, but you will end up spending more if you base your decision on the ultimate result - more expensive, more work and less reliable. Doesn't make sense no matter how you slice it. Interestingly, the same holds true for butyl products with very thin foil or non-foil facings. Performance is the result of a careful balance between adhesive characteristics and constraining layer.


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

The difference between 50 mils and 80 mils product can be great or minimal depending on the quality o fthe adhesive and the strength of the foil.

I would rather have a 40 mil product with a 6 mil foil than an 80 mil product with a 3 mil foil..

That being said. I woul dreally prefer to have 100 mils with 12 mil foil, but that is very expensive to produce.

In theory the closer you can apply the foil to the substrate the better the damping performance, but adhesive desity and elastomeric value play a decent roll inthe performance and do contribute to the end results.

ANT


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