# Infinitely Baffled The Do-Over. :P



## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

The goal 140. My previous attempt netted me a 135 and change at 32Hz.

You can see my previous build here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/77128-ascendant-audio-atlas-ib-build.html

This time I'm upping the anty with a pair of 18s and double the power. A mind boggling 900 watts. That's 900 old school class A/B watts via US Acoustics USB line. Why you ask? Because, they're cheap. The 2150 average about $100 bucks on ebay and the 2080 were about $40, which includes shipping. Here is a run down of the setup:

The car: 1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass Cierra A.K.A The Cream Puff

Head Unit: JVC KD-HDW10 A basic CD player with a built in HD tuner and RCA outputs

Amps: 2 US Acoustics USB-2085 both at 80 watts x 2 @ 4ohms (mids and highs) 2 US Acoustics USB-2150 both at 450 watts x 1 @ 4 ohms (subs)

Fronts: Powerbass 3.5" coax in stock location

Rear: MTX Thunder Axe 5-1/4" components

Subs: 2 Fi IB3 18"

Electical: Stock

I'll start off with a quick tear down.

Amps coming out. My beloved US Acoustics USB-4085. They'll be back later on for a fully active system experiment. 









Bye, bye Ascendant Audio Atlas 15s. You were truely one of a kind. You will be missed.









Here is my artistic shot from the trunk.









The great wall coming down.









This on is at a funny angle









A side by side of what going in versus what came out.









Here is a side shot. the 18 dwarfs the 15. 









Here is the backside.









I've got my fingers crossed that these 18s will make some serious noise. More to come.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

I couldn't really tell by the pics, but how much space did you have above & below the baffle with the 15's? Do you think you'll have to angle the **** out of those 18's to make them fit?

If my Civic permitted I'd definitely get 2 Fi IB318's.


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## ryan s (Dec 19, 2006)

fish said:


> I couldn't really tell by the pics, but how much space did you have above & below the baffle with the 15's? Do you think you'll have to angle the **** out of those 18's to make them fit?
> 
> If my Civic permitted I'd definitely get 2 Fi IB318's.


Yes, this.

You definitely want as much space around the sub as possible for baffle strength. Don't ask how I know :worried:


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

fish said:


> I couldn't really tell by the pics, but how much space did you have above & below the baffle with the 15's? Do you think you'll have to angle the **** out of those 18's to make them fit?
> 
> If my Civic permitted I'd definitely get 2 Fi IB318's.


At the current angle I've got 21". It's the width that has me a little worried. The opening is 40" wide, but I need about an inch of overhang to mount the baffle. That gets me down to 38". Both subs measure 37" which leave an inch in between for a vertical brace. It's going to be tight.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Nice IB! I think I would look more for 18s if I did again too, but I didn't find many that fit what I wanted for this car....cheap pair with good IB specs. Anyway check out my "Pyle 15s.." log there are pics of the quad infinity 12s I had in there you might be mounting something like that maybe. My 15s are nearly the same as what you took out here. Also look at the Pyle thread in OT it may have better photos of the 12s.

My baffle is only 3/4 ply, doubled in some areas, the 12s were too but had braces all the way down. The whole car shook didn't really have a baffle vibration issue. I have not pounded these really hard yet, though that is not why they are in there. I'm still hoping I can get close to xmax with 350rms with these pyles, the amp is much smaller size. I have to fix my deck cover it is rattling like crazy at high output but I don't hear any noises from the trunk side.

My car has fairly stiff metal to mount to all the way around, it was built to have a fold down seat that it does not have. It seems pretty solid, but I did cover the rear deck with 3/4 to beef it up and plug the holes.

I could max the 420rms on my 12s and shake the car some as they were good for 600, but it was far louder than I could hear the music from the highs so I never did try 600. They didn't even get to xmax. With 500rms I think I can xmax these cheap 15s, but not looked closely at them yet and tried it.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

Today I worked on the baffle spacers and the baffle itself. The baffle is two layers of 3/4" MDF. The subs will be flush mounted, so the first layer of MDF will act as a spacer. The baffle will be spaced back from the seatback sheetmetal 1-3/4" with strips of wood. The strips and baffle will be attached with some 1/4" bolts and some threaded inserts. Well enough of my blabbing here are some pics.

Here is the insert I'm using. This is what you get with IKEA furniture. You can buy them at Home Depot in 4 packs. I recommend ordering through Mc Master Carr. What 5 packs cost at Home Depot you can get a pack of a hundred through Mc Master Carr.










All you do is drill the hole and thread them in with an allen wrench










Viola! Nice threaded hole for a bolt. 










Here is one of the baffle spacers installed










Up next is knocking out the center brace, it's too wide. The opening in the car is 40" wide. The baffle spacers over hang an inch to give me a mounting flange for the baffle. That leaves me with 38". I'm going to use an inch wide spacer down the center. After that I'll have 37" exactly what the OD of the 18's measure. Here's the center brace out. Yes I used a dremel. 










Here is the new center brace. 1" wide 1/8" thick metal strip. With all the wood strips on it should be plenty rigid.










Here is an up close of my weld job. Flux core wire FTW! I know, I suck. Don't worry my flame suit is thick. 










Oh no! My first hiccup. The baffle is too wide to fit in through the rear because it's wider than the shock towers.  To make things worse that welded brace is going to need to be removable to get the baffle in and out. Double FAIL!










Calling it quits for today. Tomorrow should be better. LOL!


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I had to cut mine in half for the 15s due to shock towers, but I had ~7" in the center so I doubled the baffle there with a little seam in the center of ~.5". But you can still run a beam/brace of wood down the center if you have 1" room in the rear. I glued and screwed the one I did for my 12s it was very rigid. Actually to the baffle I used foam and screws. Just a suggestion, but I think I would weld an angle or tubing across the top of the hole (something you can mount to), then bolt your piece down the center with two 3/8 bolts or something....weld a bracket to the floor then you can remove it. If you wanted to drill a hole in the floor if nothing is under it, drill some holes around it. Make a 3/8 plate with threaded hole in center or weld a nut over the hole of a thinner plate but at least 1/8. Bolt plate through the center hole in floor w/plate under car, then weld shut the other holes to weld the plate on. Then you have a hole to bolt to just like a seat bolts down. Make sure you have nothing that can burn under the floor from sparks of course, or cover it to weld, but if it fits tight not much comes out the back that way.

My car does have a stamped piece that bolts in the center to hold the seat out and deck up, kind of what you are doing, you might be able to make that wider to do just that. Its not going to matter if part of it is in front of the sub behind the seat. You can see it in the photos of the oven grilles. I also adjusted the seat so I have a gap at the top of the cushion to the deck of less than an inch so it does not show really....just in case any pressure is there it may help. The seat moves when I dial it way up anyway.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

ugh. I really want to run my idmax's ib. Yet builds like this makes me want to run bigger subs


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

I ground down the welds and got the center brace out. It's going to be a bolt in piece. I'm test fitting the baffle in and taking measurements. It's going to be a tight fit. Here are some pics.

Here is the baffle in place.










With the baffle spaced so far back there is an interferance with the rear speakers and pods. I relief the baffle in the offending areas.










Here is a side by side with the old baffle. It was fun while it lasted old baffle. 










I'm using the same threaded inserts to attach the baffle in vehicle and to mount the subs. 1/4-20s for the baffle and 10-32s for the subs










In addition to the glue I'll be using drywall screw to hold the two baffles together










Here is the finished baffle










I couldn't help it, I just had to fit one in. I'm excited, but I have a ways to go. 










Here is a shot from inside the trunk.










Tomorrows a new day. Hopefully I make just as much progress.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Looks really nice. I'm sooo jealous.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

All I can say is f'n huge! Very nice I'd be wound up to see those beasts in my car too. Going to be some big IB thunder.


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

those 18's look phat in there!! Trunk Baffle for the win.

well done from a fellow 18IB owner


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks fellas. More on the way.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

No much to report today. I savored a little bit of family time so the work was light. I notched the baffle corners to clear the rear speakers. Nothing fancy, just manual work. I started off with a dremel, and finished it off with file. Ugh, the dust, luckily I have a respirator.

Here is a full pic.










Here is a close up of the area I clearanced.










I wrapped the baffle today. Last time I used a funky fabric for some contrast. This time I'm going with black leather. Black leather? Well, there's a little story behind this one. I saved this leather from some sofas I used to own. As a mater of fact, these were the first sofas I've ever owned or should say my wife and I ever owned. We bought them when we first moved in together. We brought them with us when we moved from El Paso to San Antonio. They even made with us to our first house. I was bitter sweet to replace them with new ones because of the memories. Now the memories live on with a few new ones.

Here is the beginning










The tricky part is wrapping around the areas I clearance for the rear speakers. I used the 3M stuff that comes in a can. I think it's the 77 line. Any who, here is the area in question.










Here is a closer shot.











The finished product.










Up next the amps. Stay tuned.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Looks good! Would you have had any more clearance for the center support if you'd mounted the subs from the back of the baffle?


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> Looks good! Would you have had any more clearance for the center support if you'd mounted the subs from the back of the baffle?


I probably could have made the center brace 2" wide if I had gone that route. I've never tried mounting a sub like that though.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

It's exactly the same as mounting from the front. Just an idea.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> Looks good! Would you have had any more clearance for the center support if you'd mounted the subs from the back of the baffle?


That would work but i personally would feel it would be easy for a thief to unscrew it and pull it out. Just my thought.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Thieves don't generally take the time to unscrew stuff. It's usually smash and grab type stuff. But your'e young, after you have a few systems stolen you'll see what I mean.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

I got some work done mounting the amps. This time around I'm going with two US Acoustics USB-2080's 

for the mids and highs and two US Acoustics USB-2150's for the subs. Each sub will be getting 450 

watts a piece. Last time around I was giving each sub 240 watts. This should definitely make a 

difference in the output department. Placing all these amps was a little tricky, but well worth the 

wow factor. 

Here is what I started with, a 1/4" thick piece of fiber board. I used the truck carpet as a template.










I'm using standard tee-nuts to mount the amps. These are 8-32 tee-nuts.










Here is my high tech install tool. 










Here are the amps on the board.










The test fit looks good.










Here is another shot of the test fit.










Here is a pic of the rats nest of power wires.










I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, the end is near.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

very nice.


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

any deadening going in? that rear deck is gona be flexing like a crazy


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

lithium said:


> any deadening going in? that rear deck is gona be flexing like a crazy


I'm going to get everything in first and get it going. Once everything is at full tilt I'll be able to identify the offending areas and put them in check. No more, no less, I hope.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

I'd like to call this the home stretch. Honestly, projects like this are never done. They are always 

in a state of continuous improvement. The big work is coming to an end. From here on out I'll be 

testing and updating and documenting. I'd like to get the scoop on weather some changes are worth 

while. Well, here we go. I got the rear speakers in along with their corresponding pods. I am quite 

pleased with the fit. Here are some pics


























Here are the amps in place, carpeting and all.










This is what those unfortunate enough to get stuffed in the trunk see before the trunk lids turns off 

the lights. 










Here is from the inside of the car. Just the way I like'em, big round and squished together. Too bad 

they'll spend their live covered up, huh?










We have power. Note the blue LEDs.


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

Now build a flase floor and ur done ,nice work so far.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Damn I need to go IB


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Layout looks nice. How much power do you have going to the 18's?

I can't wait to read your review/comparisons on these.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

fish said:


> Layout looks nice. How much power do you have going to the 18's?
> 
> I can't wait to read your review/comparisons on these.


450 watts from a 2150 on each sub.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

First Impressions:

I don't use any tools to setup the system. This is what I do. I pop in something I'm familiar with with bass. This time around I popped in Kylie Minogue, Fever. I turn up the radio 3/4 of the way up and start off with the fronts. I guestimate the crossover. Since the fronts are 3-1/2 co-ax I shot for 500Hz. There are markings on the amps crossover. I turn the gain up till I hear a hint of distortion then back off a 1/16th of a turn. Then I disconnect the fronts and repeat the process for the rears. For the rears I shot for a crossover point of 120Hz. To set the subs I have all the speakers going. I shot for a 80Hz crossover point then just turn the gains up till it sounds right with the inside speakers. From here I'll fiddle with the EQ in the head unit to get the sound right. That will happen over time over a wide range of music. I'll also have friends listen and get their take. This is what I have always done, and for the most part it has worked.

As for the sound so far, it's good. There is more bass output. At low and moderate levels you now it's there. When I go for full tilt, it's a bit much. There is a bunch of air moving through the large rectangular openings in the rear deck. It's almost like a speaker port. I'm definitely going to work on that. I'll get some measurements first though.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Now I do understand the idea behind an IB setup.. but given you have (2) 18" Subs... wouldn't your setup border on a large sealed enclosure? I would be curious to see what the larger sealed enclosure specs are for each of those 18's. Possibly only running (1) 18" would yield a true IB setup?


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

BowDown said:


> Now I do understand the idea behind an IB setup.. but given you have (2) 18" Subs... wouldn't your setup border on a large sealed enclosure? I would be curious to see what the larger sealed enclosure specs are for each of those 18's. Possibly only running (1) 18" would yield a true IB setup?


A big sealed box(with some leaks)is all a trunk "IB" is. The Vas on one of those 18's is 381 liters. One cubic foot equates to somewhere in between 25-28 liters, so that's about a 14-15 cf Vas alone, which is usually the same volume of a small to mid-size car's trunk. True IB is supposed to be atleast 3X Vas, I think some even say 10X Vas.


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## ryan s (Dec 19, 2006)

fish said:


> A big sealed box(with some leaks)is all a trunk "IB" is. The Vas on one of those 18's is 381 liters. One cubic foot equates to somewhere in between 25-28 liters, so that's about a 14-15 cf Vas alone, which is usually the same volume of a small to mid-size car's trunk. True IB is supposed to be atleast 3X Vas, I think some even say 10X Vas.


Yep, "we" say 4x Vas is "Car IB" and 10x is "Home (or True) IB." It really depends on what you're aiming for.

2 IB15s in my trunk measure at .7 Qtc, but I'm only using one and that's near .5x Qtc. The .7 is a "perfect" response but whose car provides a flat curve? 50Hz is EQ'd wayyyy down in my car due to cabin gain anyway.

So...you'd only have concerns if the trunk was too small for the subs. Then, you'd be sacrificing a bit of bottom end.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

fish said:


> A big sealed box(with some leaks)is all a trunk "IB" is. The Vas on one of those 18's is 381 liters. One cubic foot equates to somewhere in between 25-28 liters, so that's about a 14-15 cf Vas alone, which is usually the same volume of a small to mid-size car's trunk. True IB is supposed to be atleast 3X Vas, I think some even say 10X Vas.


So with this logic I would be correct in stating that a trunk like his might not be able to present a true IB?


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

BowDown said:


> So with this logic I would be correct in stating that a trunk like his might not be able to present a true IB?


Correct. The goal for my system is output, and like the saying goes: There is no replacement for displacement. Nothing says displacement like two 18s.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

I conducted my first system test. This test was raw, I hope to improve on this. This first test is was 

conducted windows and doors shut.










This is the meter location.










This is the setup. No rear seat, no rear deck cover. 










Here are the results from my second test. The drivers side door was open for this one.










My thoughts. Meh.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

BowDown said:


> So with this logic I would be correct in stating that a trunk like his might not be able to present a true IB?


IMO when you model them and you see little change except maybe 10Hz as you increase cf over what you have....you are IB. Most subs show little change to Hz you need in a car with more volume over Vas. Now with smaller subs it seems to make more difference, as you may be using the rolloff with say 10s...but with a 15 it can make it to at least 30 before it rolls much, so even under Vas a little you might still have the thunder. It depends on the sub. In HT you might want 10Hz, but in a car not so much. Its way easy to just run the model up and down around Vas and see what you got, and remember you can EQ things some on top of that.

Install looks nice I mounted my subs from the trunk due to clearance issues with the seatback. I don't think it matters much, and I rounded the hole off, but spacing the baffle would have been a lot more work for what seemed like no return.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

How do these FI's compare to your Atlas'? Did you meter them also?


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

fish said:


> How do these FI's compare to your Atlas'? Did you meter them also?


I did meter the Atlas'. I did a 135 and change at 32Hz with the Atlas'. The Atlas' were fairly broken in with 3+ years of jamming. On top of that I was running a healthy 240 watts to each one. I've still got some work to do to finish my current setup with the Fi's. I think once the suspension loosens up a bit on the Fi's they'll meter a bit better. Well, back to it.

Hey everybody, I'm back. After so many days in a row on this project I had to get back and tend to my 

fatherly duties. No I'm not a priest, just a family man.  I left this project with the rear deck in 

question. This is where I'll pick up. I started off by tracing the original rear deck cover on to a 

piece of 1/2" thick piece of MDF.










Here is my outline










I use a square to complete incomplete lines. These always come in handy and can be found on the cheap 

at Walmart.










Just square up to the two lines










Viola. Lines completed.










Here is the new cover ready to cut










The finished product. Well, not yet. I still need the speaker cut outs.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

I made some paper templates using a fancy 3-D modeling software. I printed them to scale and cut them 

out. I put them in place and drew some reference marks. You can see my reference marks at the bottom 

of the paper template.










I used the factory insulation as a template, and transferred it's shape on to some cardboard. Here is 

the card board in place.










I transferred my reference marks on to the cardboard. These will help me get the paper templates in the 

right location on the cardboard template.










Here are the paper templates in place lined up with my reference marks.










Here is the cardboard template back in the car for a test fit. The speaker cutouts lined up nicely.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

I transferred the cardboard template to the MDF cover.










Here is the MDF cut. I looks a little funny.










I couldn't resist.










I put the factory insulation back in place.










Finally the rear cover is back in place. I put some threaded inserts in the MDF and bolted it in place 

from the underside of the rear deck.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

I'm down to what I hope is my last major mods, bolting down the center brace. This is usually a simple 

nut and bolt affair, but in my situation it's never that simple. I'll be bolting the center brace to 

the section of the rear floor pan that rolls up supporting the lower seat back. Complicating things is 

the gas tank blocks the holes from the underside of the car. Luckily there is a solution to simplify 

the ordeal. I'll be using some rivet nuts and a special hand riveter like tool to install them. Rivet nuts 

are like rivets in that they compress onto the sheet metal, but they have threads on the inside to 

provide mounting location for bolts. Snazzy, huh? 

Here is the installation tool. I picked this up at Harbor Freight. Came with different size mandrels 

for popular machine screw sizes. 


















The rivet nuts that came with it are made of aluminum and they suck. I picked up these zinc plated steel 

ones from Mc Master Carr.










It's pretty straight forward. Here is the insert next to the mandrel










Thread the insert onto the mandrel. Insert the rivet nut into the hole and squeeze the handle to 

compress the rivet nut onto the sheet metal.










Here are the holes I drilled to mount the center brace. It's important to get the hole size right.










Here is the rivet nuts installed. A threaded mounting provision in sheet metal, or what I'd like to call 

heaven on earth.


















The center brace is finally in place.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Nifty tool you got there. Baffle looks very sturdy.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Looks great, that should take care of most of any rattles you get. Yeah maybe a good idea not to weld that close to the gas tank lol.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks guys. It's sounding much better. I'm going to have to got through the electrical system now. I had some real bad headlight dimming when playing the system at high volumes.


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## PSYKO_Inc (Dec 11, 2006)

Awesome build, I really wish I would have picked up one of those USB-4085s a couple months ago when he had some available.


onebadmonte said:


> I couldn't resist.


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## 2167 (Dec 5, 2007)

"Here is from the inside of the car. Just the way I like'em, big round and squished together"

We still talkin' 'bout speakers LOL


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Wow...I think I'm going to have to pick up one of those rivet tools. I can't tell you how many times I wish I had something to add threads to metal.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

PSYKO_Inc said:


> Awesome build, I really wish I would have picked up one of those USB-4085s a couple months ago when he had some available.


They are nice amps. A big bang for the buck. I'm really happy with them



2167 said:


> We still talkin' 'bout speakers LOL


For the most part. 



ItalynStylion said:


> Wow...I think I'm going to have to pick up one of those rivet tools. I can't tell you how many times I wish I had something to add threads to metal.


It's a nice tool. It gets the job done, and being from Harbor Freight it was inexpensive. I'd stick with using steel inserts from Mc Master Carr.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

I have a seemingly solid install now, but my score has stayed the same. I decided to test the output 

of one of my sub amps. I tested with tones from 25hz to 65hz. I checked the AC voltage output of the 

amp. Simultaneously I checked the output amperage to the sub at the positive wire to the sub. With 

these numbers I calculated the wattage by multiplying the volts times the amps. I also calculated the 

impedance by dividing the voltage by amperage. I followed the instructions on the Digital Designs 

website on amp output testing.

This is what I got

25Hz 53.0Volts 3.4Amps 180.2Watts 15.58Ohms
30Hz 48.7Volts 4.0Amps 194.8Watts 12.17Ohms
35Hz 47.3Volts 4.8Amps 227.0Watts 9.85Ohms
40Hz 46.6Volts 5.2Amps 242.3Watts 8.96Ohms
45Hz 46.7Volts 5.1Amps 238.1Watts 9.15Ohms
50Hz 47.2Volts 5.1Amps 240.7Watts 9.25Ohms
55Hz 47.9Volts 5.0Amps 239.5Watts 9.58Ohms
60Hz 48.5Volts 5.0Amps 242.5Watts 9.70Ohms
65Hz 49.1Volts 4.9Amps 240.5Watts 10.02Ohms

My subs are 4 ohm. Looking at the impedance curve I'd be inclined to say that these are 8 ohms subs. I 

haven't checked yet. Is this normal for the impedance curve of a 4 ohm sub to be so high? Are there 

other factors contributing to this? Do you think the seat back and small volume of air in front of the 

sub affecting the impedance curve much? What else should I be looking at?


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

Holy thread resurrect Batman. 

The sound system is doing fine. The subs are fully broken in. I'm metering around 134ish around 21Hz. Next on the things to do list is upgrade the SQ a bit. What better way to do that than throw some money at the problem. I'm going to take a different approach than what everyone is used to around here. Since my fiber glassing skills are non-existent that puts those high end Focals back on the shelf. I'm going to use electronic processing to make my Powerbass and MTX mids and highs sound like angels singing. What better processor to use than one of these:










Stay tuned for the install.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

This should be interesting.

Steel rivets (plain rivets) are the bomb, they hold much better than alum ones. But you need a huge rivel tool or best an air rivet gun they are awesome. Threaded rivets, what a great idea I would have used a plate instead and not thought of them.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

sqshoestring said:


> This should be interesting.
> 
> Steel rivets (plain rivets) are the bomb, they hold much better than alum ones. But you need a huge rivel tool or best an air rivet gun they are awesome. Threaded rivets, what a great idea I would have used a plate instead and not thought of them.


Yea, the threaded inserts are a god send. They definitely make installs easier. Buying the install tool from Harbor Freight makes it that much easier on the wallet.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

Finally got a little bit of free time Saturday afternoon. I did a mad thrash to get this in for a little get together with some pals. 

Here is a mock up shot. I'm taking out the amps powering the inside speakers and using the amp built in the MS8 to power them instead.










It wouldn't be a mad thrash with out a little south Texas rain in the mix. I had to move the whole operation into the garage. 










With the amps out and the MS8 in place it was just a matter of wiring things up.










Here is the finished product. 










The setup is pretty straight forward. First is the sub. It'll ask how many outputs you're going to use. Then you'll set a subsonic filter frequency, then a subsonic filter slope. After that you'll set the low pass crossover frequency and slope. Then you'll setup the front, center if applicable and rear speakers in similar fashion. From there you'll assign which output will run what speaker. After that you'll calibrate the system with the groovy headphone/microphones. A quick tone will play from each speaker. You'll do this for all the seating positions you'll want to setup. I did the driver and passenger.

The sound? Pretty impressive. I finally got a decent center stage. Mind you I'm running 3-1/2" co-ax in the stock/dash location. My problem has been the the gauge cluster blocks the driver's side speaker, focusing the sound directly to my left ear. Another issue the MS8 solved is my rear fill. Before the rear speakers overpowered the front stage. Now the rear speakers come in softly. 

All in all, I'm pretty happy with what the MS8 has been able to do with my setup. I can't wait to step up to a proper front stage. (wink, wink) Guess what's next.

Viva la old school. 










Peace.


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## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

what did you buy from JL?


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

MTopper said:


> what did you buy from JL?


I've had the JLs for years. I got them just out of high school. Back then my dreams were bigger than my skills. Just now, they are finally balancing out.


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## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

What is it you have? I'm a youngin and I'm rocking jl vr components which are "old" haha. I'm just curious


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

In the spirit of Halloween I am resurrecting this thread from the dead. Muahahahah!!!! 

The MS8 has been incredible. Best purchase period. It's time to step it up a notch. Time to add some mid-bass to the system. My poor 18s are crossed at 250Hz because my little Powerbass 3-1/2 co-ax just can't dig any deeper.

I have gone with el-cheapo, Peerless made, Miller & Kreisel 8 incher from the Parts Express Buy Out bin.

A little woofer porn









The junk in the trunk shot









Since I can't leave well enough alone I am going to flex my muscles and yank off the bucking magnet to reduce the mounting depth by a whopping 1/4". This is how I did it.

The tools









The setup









Make sure the get the fingers under the bucking magnet









It takes a couple of hands to pull it off, especially when try to take pics at the same time. The little helper is my seven year old daughter.









All it takes is getting the puller snug by hand then one turn with the wrench and the magnet pops right off.









Looking fit and trim now.









Look at me. I'm going to paint my woofer. 









Meh. 









Stay tuned for more pics by your truly.


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## circa40 (Jan 20, 2008)

I would have never thought of that! Awesome idea.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Sweet, can't wait to see what it does. I looked at that but my worthless doors are about 3" clearance Heck of a deal though, and now the kid has a big magnet to play with.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

Today is the day of no return. I've hacked my door panels and from the looks of it some might assume I used a hatchet.  Here are some pics of the carnage.

The door panel









Here is the drivers side door









Up close of the hacking









Here is a shot of the passenger side. This shot gives a good view of the area I am working with.









I'll be making a simple pod by stacking some MDF pieces. Sorry no fiberglass work here.  I'll keep it simple, I think it'll look good. More to come.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

I've got some work done on the speaker pods I'll be using. Here is what I have so far.

Here is the basic shape. I've got the stack screwed together. I'll use a drill press to drill the mounting holes and the center pin hole for the jasper jig. Having all four pieces screwed together ensures all the holes will line up when I glue the pieces together.










Here is a piece ready for the mounting hole to be cut with the jasper jig. The mounting hole is 7" in diameter. 










Since all the holes are the same I was able to hold down the piece by screwing in down on to the table from underneath the table.










Here are the pieces on my art table. 










This is a close up of the top of the pod assembly. The angle cut in the corner is to clear the bottom of the dash. The slot towards the bottom will capture the door panel. Hopefully this will make for a clean install. The profile is a bit rough, but it'll finish up with some sanding and filler.










Here is my craigslist pick up of the week. $30, but from the looks of the base this saw was pulled from the bottom of the Mississippi. I recommend one if you get the chance to get one, be warned though if you've never messed with a bandsaw you'll have hell setting up the blade to track properly on the wheels 1st time around. Be careful. Muahahahaha.










If you were wondering why I drilled mounting holes through all four parts, here is why. I am using 1/8" drill bits as pins to align all four pieces together for glueing.










It's finally coming together.










I used a hydraulic press to keep the parts together while the glue sets. Check it, my Monte Carlo in the back. Yes, I bought into the konaki e-boner. 










post break


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

post continued

This is a before and after sanding. I'll use a little filler for the low spots.










This is the finished product just before painting.










I'm using a light coat of stone textured paint. I'm hoping for enough texture to match the plastic inside the car.










The paint has dried. Now it's time for the final touches. Here are some more of those fancy threaded inserts. I'll use some for the woofer and I'll also use some to mount the pod to the door.










More to come soon. Thanks for looking.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Looks great!


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## craiggus365 (Apr 5, 2009)

onebadmonte said:


> Here are the pieces on my art table.


^^this guy seems like he is a good helper...

Let us know how those 8's play , I looked at them a couple times and really would like some input.

Nice work!


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

trevordj said:


> Looks great!


Thanks. Hopefully there will be another get together before it gets too cold.



craiggus365 said:


> ^^this guy seems like he is a good helper...
> 
> Let us know how those 8's play , I looked at them a couple times and really would like some input.
> 
> Nice work!


Will do. I've got my fingers crossed. I think they'll be good. My biggest hurdle will be getting my amps back in and give my speakers some real power. 18 watts off the MS8 just isn't cutting it. Thanks for the compliments.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

Today I finish prepping the doors for the pods.

First is the hacking of the sheet metal to clear the woofers magnet. Yes I'm using a jig saw, yes I am latino. 










Round. Impressed?










How about a little carnage?










Here is the passenger side door prepped with sound deadener and a second skin speaker tweaker kit.










Up close of the driver side door.










Up next the finished product. Stay tuned.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

onebadmonte said:


> First is the hacking of the sheet metal to clear the woofers magnet. Yes I'm using a jig saw, yes I am latino.
> 
> .


B.S.....I also used a jigsaw to do my cut-outs, and I still cannot speak spanish


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

The day is here. The pods are done and installed. Please save all flaming for the end of the presentation. Thank you for your cooperation.

The driver side door open.










The driver side door closed.










Looking up at the pod. Check how the top corner of the pod follows the line under the dash. Clean. 










Side shot of the driver side door closed.










Humanoid model in vehicle. Good clearance.










Passenger side door open.










Passenger side door closed.










Looking up at the passenger side pod. 










Alright fellas, lets hear it, don't hold back.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

Good job Hugo. Are you going to paint the pods to match the factory door panels? What's your plan for the pockets? It looks like you could pretty easily cut a piece of plastic and attach it to the top of that pocket with some plastic repair. You could easily body work it smooth and paint it when you paint the pods. Just a thought. 

Most importantly, how does it sound?


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

trevordj said:


> Good job Hugo. Are you going to paint the pods to match the factory door panels? What's your plan for the pockets? It looks like you could pretty easily cut a piece of plastic and attach it to the top of that pocket with some plastic repair. You could easily body work it smooth and paint it when you paint the pods. Just a thought.
> 
> Most importantly, how does it sound?


Thanks. To be honest I don't know if I'll go out of my way to repaint the pods. This is my test mule to help me hone in my skills for my big install. I have the original pockets trimmed and fitted in. I jumped the gun and took pics before I was completely done. 

The sound is good. Running off the MS8's built in amp isn't doing my setup any justice. Up next will be getting a pair US Acoustics USB-4080 back in. One for the fronts and rears and and one to the mid-bass. Once I have them in I'll be in a better position to comment.  The mid-bass are showing potential. So far thumbs up.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Get the amp in there yet?

LOL! the Black and Decker Door Wrecker! Oh yes, back in the day all those 80s cars had doors like that I whacked holes in hundreds of them.

You could always carpet the pods too, I think they will work fine. Get that amp in there and let us know how the drivers work Get us all wound up and leave us here....lol


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

sqshoestring said:


> Get the amp in there yet?
> 
> LOL! the Black and Decker Door Wrecker! Oh yes, back in the day all those 80s cars had doors like that I whacked holes in hundreds of them.
> 
> You could always carpet the pods too, I think they will work fine. Get that amp in there and let us know how the drivers work Get us all wound up and leave us here....lol


No amps yet, fitting 4 amps with a 16" x 10" footprint has proven to be a challenge.  So far these speakers are turning out to be good mid-bass drivers. I've listened to music with what I consider good drumming and all have sounded good. I've listened to Spoon, Trisha Yearwood, Metallica, and Tracy Chapman. All have had just enough output to slightly feel in the pant leg. Remember this is only 18 watts. 

These are my crossover points:
Subs to mid-bass at 60Hz with a 12db/oct slope
Mid-bass to mid-range/highs at 500Hz with a 24db/oct slope
Rears are high passed at 125Hz with a 24db/oct slope.

Once I get my amps in for the front and rears I'll be able to cross the Mid-bass a little lower. Hell I might even try the 8s as subs all the way up to 500hz just for laughs. 

Stay tuned.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Thanks for the update, will be watching.


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## onebadmonte (Sep 4, 2008)

I got a little work done on the ol creampuff this weekend. My old US Acoustics USB-4085s have made it back into my set up. One of the 4085 is powering the front Powerbass 3-1/2" co-axials and the rear MTX Thunder Axe 5-1/4" components. The other 4085 has been bridged and is powering the Peerless OEM 8" Mid-bass. 

These are my crossover settings so-far:

Subs to Mid-Bass crossed at 60Hz at 12db/oct
Mid-Bass to Mid-Range/Highs crossed at 500Hz at 24db/oct
Rears hi-passed at 125Hz at 24db/oct

Putting the amps in really woke up the system. I give the 8s the thumbs up if you have some power to feed them. I've been enjoying stuff like Spoon, REM, and Joan Osborne. At high levels you can feel it in the pant legs. They blend well with the subs. Still have some work to do like up the electrical, but so far I am happy with it. Here are some pics of the amps in place. Please excuse my wiring. Once I have everything worked out I'll make some nice RCAs and clean up the power wires. 



















The crossover adjust-ability the MS8 provides has me spoiled. I am bummed the sub-sonic is limited at the low end to 20Hz. The nice thing is the slope is adjustable from 6db/oct to 24db/oct. Cruising IB style I have the sub sonic filter slope set at 6db/oct.  The auto tune works like a champ and is very straight forward. The icing on the cake is the Logic7 processing. Turning the Logic7 processing on and having the listening position set to the driver puts the image right in front of the drivers seat. This is amazing from me because the drivers side 3 incher is blocked by the gauge cluster. The gauge cluster and the driver side window funnel the sound right at me. With out the MS8 I would have to bias the balance dramatically to the right speaker to get an even balance. At times I'd be at biased almost 80% to the right. :O The Mid-bass turned out great. Especially for the price, then again to make them work I had to sacrifice the door/door panel.  Well see how long this last before I up and change it all again. Don't tell the wife I said that.  Let me know what you think.

Cheers.


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

please do some kick panels ,with a 6.5 coax or decent separates up front,that bass is going to sound so nice,low end is going to be sick. looks good so far. nice amps too,i have the big four channel, laying around, makes me want to use it.


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