# New audiofrog amps!



## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

Audiofrog website now shows two amps available for the first time. I'd love to guinea pig them but it'd take too long to ship to me and my review would be worthless. Anyways, I have faith that these will be no less than stellar value and hopefully someone qualified comes out with a review on them.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

They look good! I'm a class D fan too, and like how he's explained all the filtering etc.

150.4 - feeding tweets b mids
150.4 - bridged for bass
600.1 - for a sub

Win


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## Slave2myXJ (Dec 18, 2021)

Where's the DSP to go with them ?!?!?


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

One step at a time, helix do for now I'm sure


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

AF has been solid across the board and my assumption would be the amps should be no less. Anyone know what pricing would be and I assume these are built off some other board/build house? Meaning is there some manufacturer in the market already using a brother/sister model?


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

MSRP is $799 on both models.


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## 156546 (Feb 10, 2017)

Jroo said:


> AF has been solid across the board and my assumption would be the amps should be no less. Anyone know what pricing would be and I assume these are built off some other board/build house? Meaning is there some manufacturer in the market already using a brother/sister model?


These were designed for us a couple of years ago (I showed samples at Knowledgefest in Long Beach in 2020), but it's taken us a long time to get them to market. The design is a collaboration between me and an amp designer I've known for a really long time. 

I don't know what a "build house" is and I find that term to be somewhat demeaning.


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## Cutaway (May 5, 2020)

GotFrogs said:


> These were designed for us a couple of years ago (I showed samples at Knowledgefest in Long Beach in 2020), but it's taken us a long time to get them to market. The design is a collaboration between me and an amp designer I've known for a really long time.
> 
> I don't know what a "build house" is and I find that term to be somewhat demeaning.


I dont think (or at least i hope) that Jroo was not being snarky. I would also assume that you are using a "build house" - 3rd party company that assembles the A/F designed product to the A/F specifications vs a team of assemblers who's soul/main income comes from a paycheck with A/F on the front of it . Based on current A/F products i would also assume these new products to be stellar in performance, lifespan and have something very unique to their performance.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Muu said:


> They look good! I'm a class D fan too, and like how he's explained all the filtering etc.
> 
> 150.4 - feeding tweets b mids
> 150.4 - bridged for bass
> ...


Nooo do left and right amps so both amps power supplys get an easier load


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## cflores2 (Mar 31, 2020)

They look promising, just wished they have a 1000.1 for their gb12 subs.


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## Beasteggs (Jan 14, 2015)

Will there be 6 channel configuration?


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Just a 4-channel and a Mono at this time.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Looks like both amps share a very similar architecture / common board.

Left amp + Right amp a good idea.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

GotFrogs said:


> These were designed for us a couple of years ago (I showed samples at Knowledgefest in Long Beach in 2020), but it's taken us a long time to get them to market. The design is a collaboration between me and an amp designer I've known for a really long time.
> 
> I don't know what a "build house" is and I find that term to be somewhat demeaning.


I never knew this was a demeaning term. amps are built by a company and multiple brands use them. Looking for clarification as that term has been used from everything from amps to speakers. My old solobarics came from a build house. I got them from credence and paid about 50 percent less for the exact speaker they were shipping to kicker and putting their label on


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

Wonder why they went with 12db slopes instead of 24? They do look nice though


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## jheat2500 (Mar 1, 2021)

Andy's post per FB when someone asked the same thing:

"Keith Fry not enough room in this little amplifier for the potentiometers required for 4th order crossovers. When you're using these with a DSP, you can COMPLETELY bypass the crossovers in the 150.4 with the switch and with the 600 you can move the crossover almost 3 octaves out of band."


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## swiffcliff (Aug 25, 2016)

Top mounted controls are nice.


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## MythosDreamLab (Nov 28, 2020)

_These babies should leapfrog the competition...!_


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

These look very similar to JL Audio XD amps


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## MrHarris (Feb 3, 2011)

As long as they uphold the the standards of overall quality — performance, functionality, and workmanship — which I have faith AudioFrog will uphold its reputation, I can honestly say I am very excited to hear of this news. 

I also do wish a 5 channel amp/dsp combo for under $999 would emerge, but that may be just hopeful dreaming, especially with self induced inflation pressures just skewing the perception of prices that affect the customers first impression versus the real world reality of the unprecedented and largely unreported real world inflation figures that are actually happening in real time.

What would be the best avenue to purchase the new AudioFrog amplifier(s)? Crutchfield? And/or?


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

MrHarris said:


> What would be the best avenue to purchase the new AudioFrog amplifier(s)? Crutchfield? And/or?


I can help you with that, once they are available.


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## sprsonc (Oct 13, 2012)

Do these new Audiofrog amps have regulated power supplies or unregulated?


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

edouble101 said:


> These look very similar to JL Audio XD amps
> View attachment 325160
> 
> View attachment 325158
> ...


In the sense that they are rectangular and have power, rca and speaker terminals… like most amps with bottom exit terminals??? 😂 aside from that… no… 🙈


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## geolemon (Aug 15, 2005)

Contact manufacturing isn't a negative... Not by any stretch.

...as someone who helped launch a class-3 electronics contract manufacturing business specializing in SMT partnerships with aerospace, military, and medical contract, I can attest.

Consumer electronics are not even class 1 level, no matter the high end brand name. They may only sample test a board in a run.

But when the electronics meter potentially deadly medicine into a human or send a circuit board that controls a million dollar satellite into space, there's zero room for defect.

Allowing a contract manufacturer who IS an expert on manufacturing and scaling to quality standards - that's the best scenario for quality of manufacturing...

...just like allowing an electrical engineer with specific audio expertise to design the circuit and layout is best for ensuring quality and performance are actually designed in at the most foundational level.

I realize it's 2022 and we've suffered a real degradation in society where conspiracy theories and arrogance win over science and education and actual expertise...
But experts and expertise are real.

Electrical engineers design better circuits than groupthink forum threads. They know more.

Contract manufacturers build better than backyard outfits - and have better - even automated equipment to ensure quality.

Let the experts do what they do best.

Even the "build house" concept - if they are big (lots of them are) they often have all that expertise in house. Their EE's can engineer. Their BOM experts can source parts best. Their manufacturing engineers can determine what's needed for class 2, class 1, or even consumer grade.

The failure point is often the parent company.
If they contact the "build house" and say "I want to make a cheap product - and I'm new so I have to distribute all my start-up and sunk costs across a small run of 100 amps"

The build house says "look - we have you covered. You COULD spend $10k on engineering and testing prototypes, and source at least some parts on the BOM that we have to custom order, and we'll have to configure up a custom setup and job run and you wanted a custom heat sink? You'll end up somewhere around $300...
...OR, Mr. Businessman...
...we have a whole library of standard boards that are already proven, are easy for us to set up and run, we have materials in stock, and if you are OK with a standard heat sink we can get that in your hands for about $100."

So depending on what decision is made there, it's really what determines what that final product actually is.

It's really not the "build house" that's to blame.


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## geolemon (Aug 15, 2005)

edouble101 said:


> These look very similar to JL Audio XD amps
> View attachment 325160
> 
> View attachment 325158
> ...


They actually look fantastic.

I love that heat sink - and ever since Soundstream pioneered it in the 90s, I've liked the single-side connections for both power and inputs and outputs.
JL sure wasn't the first.

Unless Audiofrog actually officially partnered with JL on this, I'm extremely doubtful that the boards are the same - JL is very much known for keeping their designs proprietary, and confidential.

Sounds like someone spoke up earlier in this thread that they did have their own electrical engineer design their own proprietary board.

Even if they did partner with someone to simply take an existing product and have an engineer modify it, hop it up, improve it - that's progression and means everything about it is different, just an efficient route, win/win.

I'm not saying that's what they've done, I know nothing more that what I see in these pics.
That said, they are a business, and they have a target demographic. Given their drive to operate at a high-end level, I expect these to perform well, offer more product to audiophiles.

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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

"hop it up" is see what you did there LOL


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Jroo said:


> I never knew this was a demeaning term. amps are built by a company and multiple brands use them. Looking for clarification as that term has been used from everything from amps to speakers. My old solobarics came from a build house. I got them from credence and paid about 50 percent less for the exact speaker they were shipping to kicker and putting their label on


It came off to me as you were implying that Andy buys credence amps and slaps his name on them and marks them up. So yeah a little demeaning.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Geez.... regardless, I don't think the guy purposely meant to degrade the brand. Sharing base components and design isn't uncommon and isn't all that bad as hinted at earlier. Has anyone is ranted about similarities with GTI mids? They're great performers and so are the GB's. 

Still, it doesn't matter what a product shares or is based on. You pay for quality and performance which can differ even amongst sibling brands like JBL & Infinity (at least that used to be the case). Some amps these days are sharing so much while looking alike, but those brands tend to admit they're related... Soundstream & PPI for instance. I don't expect that from higher tier products. SI amps have look-alikes.. and no doubt they might even come from the same factory, but IIRC, tests have proven they don't perform the same. 


Moving forward

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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Bayboy said:


> Geez.... regardless, I don't think the guy purposely meant to degrade the brand. Sharing base components and design isn't uncommon and isn't all that bad as hinted at earlier. Has anyone is ranted about similarities with GTI mids? They're great performers and so are the GB's.
> 
> Still, it doesn't matter what a product shares or is based on. You pay for quality and performance which can differ even amongst sibling brands like JBL & Infinity (at least that used to be the case). Some amps these days are sharing so much while looking alike, but those brands tend to admit they're related... Soundstream & PPI for instance. I don't expect that from higher tier products. SI amps have look-alikes.. and no doubt they might even come from the same factory, but IIRC, tests have proven they don't perform the same.
> 
> ...


I didn't mean to say i thought it was mean spirited or malicious. I just said i noticed.


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## arsuoni (Mar 18, 2021)

dumdum said:


> In the sense that they are rectangular and have power, rca and speaker terminals… like most amps with bottom exit terminals??? 😂 aside from that… no… 🙈


They are more alike than you're inferring. As I said in the other thread, they have very similar design points.


arsuoni said:


> Thank you for being so transparent with the design! Appears to be similar to JL Audio - IR 2092 class D controller, >400kHz switching, feedback, differential inputs, etc.


Granted, doesn't make them perform or sound the same, nor do they look alike.


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

dumdum said:


> In the sense that they are rectangular and have power, rca and speaker terminals… like most amps with bottom exit terminals??? 😂 aside from that… no… 🙈


Your ability to name amp parts is astounding.


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

One thing I don't quite understand is:



site said:


> 3Ch: Input 1 sends signal to output channels 1, 3 and 4. Input 2 sends signal to output 2, 3 and 4. Inputs 3 and 4 are not used. Outputs 3 and 4 will output the sum of inputs 1 and 2 (1+2). Use when output channels 3 and 4 will be bridged to drive a subwoofer with two input connections.


I'd have assumed 3 chan mode would have summed inputs 3&4 to bridged 3&4 output, or maybe just used input 3. That way you could use it to power a midbass bridged.


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## 156546 (Feb 10, 2017)

Muu said:


> One thing I don't quite understand is:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd have assumed 3 chan mode would have summed inputs 3&4 to bridged 3&4 output, or maybe just used input 3. That way you could use it to power a midbass bridged.


I have one connected to a pair of GB60s bridged. Put the switch in 4 channel and use inputs 1 and 3, or 2 and 4, or 1 and 4, or 2 and 3


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## Muu (Jan 22, 2020)

Ah nice


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Once again, Andy has developed a product that has IMO ticked ALL of the important boxes in the design, features, and form factor with these new amplifiers.

Go check out the Audiofrog website for clear explanations of all of the great tech and features that has been built into these new amplifiers. I like the Minimalist look and design, as well as the thinner profile, too. ￼ 

The only feature missing that I would have liked is built-in LED Clip Indicators. Whether or not they work reliably and accurately may be questionable, but I've noticed that they are a desireable feature and significant selling point for many.

And, like others, I would like to see a 5-channel and/or versatile, staggered-power 6-channel in this lineup, as well as a 1K-1.2K monoblock. Maybe some of those will be coming in the future, but Andy has the basics covered in the interim with the current 4 channel and monoblock.

While the MSRP is completely in-line with some other respectable brands, especially given the technology and features that are included in these amplifiers, the $799 MSRP price is just a bit too high (for me) to make these my "everyday go-to" recommendation.

At least in my case, my current "go-to" small form factor Class-D amps from a lower to higher price point are the D'Amore Engineering E-series "Clean D" amplifiers, the R-F Power-series "T" amps (T400X4ad), and the BikeTronics Titan-series Hypex UcD-based amps.

The Audiofrog amps would probably move to the top of that short "go-to" list and fly off the shelves if the MSRP's were somewhere between $549 & $649.

Just my thoughts for now. But these look like a very solid offering to complete the already excellent Audiofrog lineup.


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

need audiofrog DSP!!


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

Needs a bigger Frog logo.


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Personally I’m not really feeling these amps either. What do they have over comparably priced amps other than brand? And 12db crossovers = no bueno. Andy himself preaches 24db LR. I feel they’re slightly overpriced as well. But maybe they sound like angels singing? Time will tell.


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## 156546 (Feb 10, 2017)

DaveG said:


> Personally I’m not really feeling these amps either. What do they have over comparably priced amps other than brand? And 12db crossovers = no bueno. Andy himself preaches 24db LR. I feel they’re slightly overpriced as well. But maybe they sound like angels singing? Time will tell.


Not enough room for the pots required for accurate 24dB/oct. 12dB requires a 4 gang pot. 24dB requires an 8 gang pot. That means that to make one control, there have to be eight pots all "driven" by the same dial. 4 is fine and it's possible to make a filter that works properly. 8 is not because the shaft that you have to use to pass through the center of each of the pots twists as it's turned and the front and rear pots are never turned the same distance. So, the bigger you can make the pot, the bigger you can make the shaft, but bigger is kind of the opposite of the idea here. So, if you want to use 24dB, then a DSP is the better way. If you choose to go that route, you can disable these crossovers (in the 150.4) and move them way out of band (600.1).


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

> BikeTronics Titan-series Hypex UcD-based amps.


I run Biketronics amps and love the sound, but the 4180 also has a real world cost of $699 whereas the AF amp will like most products probably be available for a little less than MSRP.
And, it would be well worth an extra $100 to have normal wiring connectors rather than the very specific pins and delicate wiriing needed to connect the BT amplifier. I don't know maybe BT sells a harness or something, but for me wiring up my BT amps was a pain in the ass. Also any kind of fatter high quality RCA plug is a no go as well.
They are rated at significantly higher power than the AF, but that's of questionable value in the real world if you are just driving a normal front stage.

Anyway, point being, I don't think these compare unfavorably to the BT option including cost or not.


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## 156546 (Feb 10, 2017)

preston said:


> I run Biketronics amps and love the sound, but the 4180 also has a real world cost of $699 whereas the AF amp will like most products probably be available for a little less than MSRP.
> And, it would be well worth an extra $100 to have normal wiring connectors rather than the very specific pins and delicate wiriing needed to connect the BT amplifier. I don't know maybe BT sells a harness or something, but for me wiring up my BT amps was a pain in the ass. Also any kind of fatter high quality RCA plug is a no go as well.
> They are rated at significantly higher power than the AF, but that's of questionable value in the real world if you are just driving a normal front stage.
> 
> Anyway, point being, I don't think these compare unfavorably to the BT option including cost or not.


Hypex UcD is really nice. The feedback loop after the filter is cool. Ours is before the filter, but the filter is at 40k, so the outcome is similar.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

PREORDERS are available. PM me for details!!!!!!

ETA is Mid March for the orders to be filled.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

GotFrogs said:


> Hypex UcD is really nice. The feedback loop after the filter is cool. Ours is before the filter, but the filter is at 40k, so the outcome is similar.


We ever gonna get the Audiofrog DSP? Please release one!


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## 156546 (Feb 10, 2017)

gumbeelee said:


> We ever gonna get the Audiofrog DSP? Please release one!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Some critical parts have lead times of 75 weeks. We're trying.


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

75 weeks!!! Yes I suppose with all that is going on with the world, this may come as no surprise.


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## slowride (Jan 26, 2009)

I have no doubt these frog amps will fit the bill for a ton of applications. May even try a pair in my wife’s car. But they are extremely similar to these models from B2 audio. I’m guessing B2 doesn’t have the same quality components and/or tolerances.
MANI 600 - The next level of design, features & compact amplification!


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

And the AudioFrog are considerably smaller.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

GotFrogs said:


> Come critical parts have lead times of 75 weeks. We're trying.


Geez, 75 weeks!! Thats normal this day in time but appreciate the effort!!


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## MythosDreamLab (Nov 28, 2020)

_It's those dang Ukrainian Transistors..._


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## bnae38 (Oct 3, 2015)

My money is on fpga


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## crdi_lover (Jul 19, 2018)

Any 6 channel amplifier upcoming in the future?

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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

These are tiny amps, buy (2) 4-channels, bridge one and you have 6


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

799…..dammit Andy


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## 156546 (Feb 10, 2017)

Pfilg said:


> 75 weeks!!! Yes I suppose with all that is going on with the world, this may come as no surprise.


Now 93 weeks on the automotive part.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

GotFrogs said:


> Now 93 weeks on the automotive part.


I have waited since audiofrog was announced for there DSP, everyone knows I love MS-8 so whats 93 more weeks….


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

gumbeelee said:


> I have waited since audiofrog was announced for there DSP, everyone knows I love MS-8 so whats 93 more weeks….
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Roughly 2 years sir. Lol 


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

MrGreen83 said:


> Roughly 2 years sir. Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Since i have got older time seems to fly anyway maybe by then gas want be considered liquid gold and i can afford one


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## Myface (May 21, 2021)

Come on Andy how about a teaser.....just a little PLEASE!
Are you going to beat up Helix?


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## slowride (Jan 26, 2009)

Audiofrog amp dyno
Dean and Fernando dyno and install a 4 channel version. Makes rated power and more.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Myface said:


> Come on Andy how about a teaser.....just a little PLEASE!
> Are you going to beat up Helix?


Ever since Andy installed the 8 new Audiofrog amps in his Mercedes he's been running the Helix DSPs.  

But I'm hoping the new Audiofrog DSP has equivalent features, quality, and Software to Helix.




slowride said:


> Audiofrog amp dyno
> Dean and Fernando dyno and install a 4 channel version. Makes rated power and more.


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## 156546 (Feb 10, 2017)

bbfoto said:


> Ever since Andy installed the 8 new Audiofrog amps in his Mercedes he's been running the Helix DSPs.
> 
> But I'm hoping the new Audiofrog DSP has equivalent features, quality, and Software to Helix.


No, I have never had a Helix DSP in my car.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

GotFrogs said:


> No, I have never had a Helix DSP in my car.


Sorry, Andy. Thanks for the correction. I think that is what Dean from *5 Star Car Stereo* stated in one of their recent videos after KnowledgeFest or the MasterTech Expo after listening to your Mercedes. :-/ ...Or maybe he said "_miniDSP"_ not the "DSP Mini" (Helix).

So are you using the computer setup, or your older prototype 24 channel DSP/amp...or???


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Niebur3 said:


> These are tiny amps, buy (2) 4-channels, bridge one and you have 6 ￼


Jerry, I somewhat agree that would be a good solution, especially to achieve the staggered power that most _SQ enthusiasts_ will want for a 3-way front stage. But not so much for the typical "stereo upgrade" that most shop's are requested to do on a daily basis.

A single chassis 6-channel amplifier would greatly simplify installation and wiring. The AudioControl LC and Arc Audio XDi v2 6-channel amps are extremely popular. Active 3-way front or 2-way front plus subwoofer, among other configurations.

And I like the idea of keeping the mono subwoofer amplifier as a stand-alone unit, as the subwoofer setup is the single most upgraded or changed part of the system in any vehicle.

But a solid, versatile 5-channel amplifier with at least 500 watts at 2-ohms for the subwoofer channel is the _Go-To_ solution for 90% of shops whose daily customers request a "stereo upgrade" system with a front 2-way passive component set + rear coaxials, and subwoofer. Simplified wiring, installation, and labor using a single amp solution under or behind a seat, in the trunk, or under the rear floor.

The 5-Channel Kenwood *X802.5* and XR901.5, Alpine PDX-V9 & new X- & S-series, JL HD/XD/RD, Pioneer GM, AudioControl LC, Rockford-Fosgate R2/P/T, Infinity Reference & Kappa, and other 5-channel amps sell more units daily than all other 2-channel and 4-channel series amps combined.

Obviously, the combination DSP/Amplifier units are extremely popular as well for those wanting to incorporate a DSP in the system.

I'm sure that Andy already has all of the market research he needs. Just throwing in my .02


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