# JimmyDee's BMW Build Log - Updated May 17, 2020



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Let me start by saying; as I post this... I am already changing things on the install.
But, that will probably be a never-ending venture; so here's where I'm at so far:

First off, the install subject: *BMW X6-M*
• 570 horsepower
• Twin-turbocharged 4.4 litre V8
• Zero to 60 in 3.8 seconds
• Will pull a full G in the corners

This thing is an absolute monster...

















There are some really nice professional installs posted, and I admire the level of detail put into these.
But, I am just some dude in his (dimly lit) garage, working with everyday tools.
The cuts aren't fancy. There's no 3D printing. And most of the material came from Home Depot or Amazon.

The equipment is all the same as what I had in my previous vehicle:
*OEM Head Unit* into *mObridge DA3* into *Helix DSP-Pro Mk II* 
*Amplification:* MMATS HiFi-6150D and MMATS HiFi-4250D
*Front Stage:* Sinfoni Tempo 10, Dynaudio Esotar 430, Audio-Development W800-NEO
*Rear Fill:* Audiofrog GB10, Audiofrog GB40, Audiofrog GB410 (passive crossover)
*Subwoofer:* Audiofrog GB10D2

As with all my installs, I have two basic criteria:
1. Sound Quality 
2. Stealth Installation

Let's start with the install location. Under the rear floor is a hidden cargo hatch, with a fair bit of room:









With the carpeted floor removed, we have a lot of room to work with:









Covered the floor with sound deadener, and also up the sides (did the sides later in the process):









Next, it's time to cut some 3/4" MDF, to make the sub enclosure and amp rack:









Construction adhesive and brad nails... this thing will never come apart:









Audiofrog specs 0.6 cu.ft. for a sealed enclosure on this sub. My enclosure nets 0.67 cu.ft. after the displacement of the sub.
Test fit, with the bottom layer of the amp rack added:









Now, to start on the power cables... 
I've always used Knukonceptz cables and power distribution block. They just work good.

Strip the jacketing back about 5/8", and slip it through the gland:









Bend the wires back over the sheath:









Thread it in with your fingers, to ensure you don't cross-thread:









Then, wrench that bad boy down tight:









Same process with the positive cable:









Here's the distribution block, mounted on the bottom of the amp rack. 
Everything is zip-tied and screwed down to the board. 0awg in / 4awg out.
Fused positive on one side (2 X 80amp fuses), and solid negative on the other.
The smaller separate inline holder is a 5amp to the DSP.









I also mounted the Helix DSP onto the bottom layer of the amp rack, and ran the RCA's to it:









Carpeted the sub enclosure, and added some Poly-Fil:









12awg. Knukonceptz speaker cable for the sub:









Sub is in:









Time to bolt-down the lower part of the amp rack... what a rats nest:









But it cleans up nicely...









Now for the top layer of the amp rack:









Pulled the RCA's from the Helix and connected them to the amps:









Again, everything is zip-tied and screwed down secure:









RCA's are connected and Power Cables are connected to the amps:









Speaker cables are all pulled through the vehicle, and connected to the amps:
(this is definitely the hardest part of the entire job)









Time to bring power to the system...
Strip back the 0awg. ground cable:









Slip a ring terminal over it:









And crimp that baby down!









Bolt it down to the OEM grounding lug:









Same process for the 0awg. positive battery cable:









BMW uses a MOST fiber optic system for virtually everything in the car... including the audio system:









In order to tap into that fiber optic network, I used a mObridge DA3.
The DA3 has a built-in DSP, but I bypass that and just use it to tap into the MOST fiber optic.
Helix also makes a similar unit: # SDMI25. The Helix does not have a DSP, just a Toslink output.









Just configuring the mObridge to work with the vehicle, and bypass the internal DSP.
It sends a full-range, completely pure flat signal to the Helix DSP-Pro:









Now, onto the door speakers... unfortunately, I got focused on doing the work, and forgot to take a bunch of pictures.

Here's the front door skin removed:









Not much to see here... except that I needed to pull half of the lower dash out, to run the speaker cables through the Molex, into the doors:
(what a total pain in the ass, pulling cables through an already packed Molex)









Cables pulled through:









The OEM speakers aren't total garbage... but they're far from great:









This is one of the current changes... 
I used MDF as the base speaker ring, but just today I went and bought a piece of HDPE plastic.
It'll annoy me, knowing that MDF might swell-up from humidity and temperature changes.
I'll be pulling the door skins off again, and replacing that MDF with HDPE:









Tweeters are mounted in the OEM sail panels. Had to cut it a bit to make the Tempo 10's fit:









Doors all sealed up with sound deadener:









And for the final ingredient... to replace these weak under-seat woofers:









Somehow, they produce a decent amount of midbass... but I'm sure I'd blow them up, if I attached them to my MMATS 4250:

















Replacing them with this... Audio-Development W800-NEO:









Put some sound deadener in the base of the under-seat enclosure:
It is open vented into the side pillars of the vehicle.









Cut some speaker rings / extenders out of HDPE plastic:

















Cut the ridiculously long speaker posts down with a hacksaw:









And soldered the speaker wires to them:









Then mounted them into the OEM floor boxes:









That's about it...
Put everything back together; door panels back on, seats bolted back down, dash and trim put back in place.

As mentioned; I am already going to change a few things... just because I'm a sucker for _'the latest and greatest'_:
1. The mObridge DA3 is getting swapped for the newly released model: DA.G2-PRO. I expect it to arrive early next week.
2. The Helix DSP-Pro will be getting replaced with the new DSP-Ultra, when it becomes available.

The MMATS 6150 powers: Front Tweeters (150W each), Front Midrange (150W each), Rear Fill (150W passive per side).
The MMATS 4250 powers: Underseat Midbass (250W each), Subwoofer (500W bridged). 

I did a bit of basic tuning and time alignment. Just enough to make it sound decent. Actually, it sounds really good!
But until I get the new components (mObridge and Helix DSP), I'm not going to spend hours tuning it. 
I'll do it properly, once everything is installed.

Total install time: about 30 hours.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Nice job. Love the vehicle.


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## sonikaccord (Jun 15, 2008)

I haven't posted here in a while, but this popped up on my TaT app. Very nice machine and build to go with it, but you already know that 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Midway (Nov 19, 2019)

Beautiful work and very helpful as I plan my 2016 X6 F16. The X6M is a beast. Our Xdrive 35i is no slouch but it is really my wife's car or I might have been tempted to step up to the 8 cylinder M. I did add an MPPK tune though.

I’ll likely have a few component differences and only do some of the work myself and have a professional installer do the hard stuff. Wish I had your experience and skill but I don’t want to do my first upgrade alone on a relatively expensive car.

Thanks for all your help so far.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

If you tune the helix with auto eq and save the files you can then re import the eq files to the ultra as well 

Nice simple system you have there ?? Like it!


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

Having those under seat woofers is fantastic - door woofers in my experience sound like ass no matter how much dynamat you use. Are those woofers run infiinite baffle then ? at some point the backside vents into a large frame rail ?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

preston said:


> Are those woofers run infiinite baffle then ? at some point the backside vents into a large frame rail ?


Ya, the floor boxes vent into the side pillars.


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## EmptyKim (Jun 17, 2010)

Happy with the single GB10 sub?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

EmptyKim said:


> Happy with the single GB10 sub?


It's a great sounding sub. Fast and precise.
It doesn't produce _huge booming bass_. But fills the low end nicely.
If a guy was after _'big bass'_, then I would recommend a GB12.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Couple updates (per my original post):

The new mObridge DA-G2.PRO arrived this morning. 
I removed the DA3 and replaced it with the new unit... sounds the same.









I pulled the door skins off, and replaced the MDF speaker rings with HDPE ones:


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

The new mObridge DA.G2-PRO has 10 output channels, which is what I needed (9 actually).
It also has a new algorythm to upmix a center channel (which I'm not using - but maybe in the future).
These are the two main advantages over my prior mObridge DA3.

I spent about 4 hours tuning the new mObridge DA.G2-PRO unit today.
It's a bit more work than my previous Helix DSP-Pro, but I believe I have got it sounding just as good.

The advantage with the Helix, is that it has a built-in RTA, and can auto-tune (helps to get the baseline EQ'ing done).
The mObridge has none of this, so I needed to do RTA measurtements with REW, and then manually adjust the EQ settings for each (and every) speaker.

My original plan was to also get a new Helix DSP-Ultra (when it is released)... but I'm not so sure now. After properly tuning; the mObridge sounds REALLY good.


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Great build! Simple and effective


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Changed a few more things...

I swapped the mObridge unit for a Helix SDMI25. Doesn't make any difference... just my OCD wanting it to match the new Helix DSP.
I swapped the Helix DSP-Pro II for a moBridge DA-G2.PRO... then swapped that for a new *Helix DSP-Ultra*!


















The DSP-Ultra is incredible!
In my opinion; it is a definite (and noticable) upgrade from the DSP-Pro II.

You can run it in 'basic' mode, which doesn't really offer any benefit over the DSP-Pro II (aside from 12 channels).
Or, you can switch on the 'Virtual Channel Processing', and suddenly you are open to a pile of new stuff!
I have dialed-in the Augmented Bass Processing, and it is something else!

Still playing with the software.
I'd say the tuning was 70% done with the built-in RTA and Autotune feature. The rest was done 'by ear' to suit my taste.
Still tinkering with the fine tuning... but I'm close to being satisfied.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Awesome work Jimmy.

It takes confidence to disassemble and work on a car that expensive. Hell, I had some sleepless nights when I was working on my $16k used Camry  .

Looking forward to seeing how the “ultra” works out for you. If I could change one part of my system today, it’d definitely be my DSP.

Congrats on the new car and new install. It looks great!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Makes me want to buy the Ultra, but honestly I’m not proficient enough that I feel I would notice. 


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Coppertone said:


> Makes me want to buy the Ultra, but honestly I’m not proficient enough that I feel I would notice.


I bet you'd notice...
As mentioned; if you just use it in standard mode, then there's no appreciable difference, other than 12 channels out versus 10.
But if you put it into 'Virtual Channel Processing' mode... then it's a whole new world.

I've played with a few of the Virtual options, but haven't mastered any of them except for the Augmented Bass Processing.
The bass is substantially better on ****ty old 80's rock recordings, and WAY MORE DEFINED on lower volume listening.
It's dynamic, so it automatically adjusts depending on what information the recording has, and what volume level you're listening at.
This alone made the Ultra_ 'worth it'_ for me...


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Darn now of course I’m now looking for a vendor for this. I’m feeling my current Helix MKII will be up for sale.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

It's been wicked cold here, the past few weeks...
So, when I first installed the Helix SDMI25 and DSP-Ultra; I kinda did a quick _hatchet job_.
It was just too damn cold out, and I wanted to get them installed... as fast as possible, before I froze.

This week, it warmend up, substantially.
So I went out to the garage, ripped all the wiring out, and spent the past 6 hours installing them properly.
(cables pulled evenly, and zip-tied, and strapped down to the mounting board)

Also, a few weeks back; I started using ferrules... since then, I'm junked on them!
I've been putting ferrules on everything!

Power Connectors:









Speaker Connectors:









Blank Ferrules (with heat shrink) for 4awg Power:









I got the SDMI25 installed neatly. Mounted where the OEM amplifier was:









Re-did all the wiring to/from the DSP-Ultra:









And ran new Stinger 8000 Series RCA Cables to the amps:









Finished Product - Everything Is Strapped Down Secure:


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## jriggs (Jun 14, 2011)

Looking good! I just swapped out Stinger 8000 for the 9000 series. Found a deal almost too good to believe. Someone in Australia had 3 pair of 6ft 9000's listed on eBay for $120 shipped.


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## farfromovin (Mar 30, 2011)

Awesome build, clean! Those MMATS hifi amps sure are tempting. Am I the only one who looks at the Helix Ultra’s new Augmented Bass Processing as a built in Audiocontrol Epicenter?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

farfromovin said:


> Am I the only one who looks at the Helix Ultra’s new Augmented Bass Processing as a built in Audiocontrol Epicenter?


The Helix version is a massive step-up from the Epicenter.
It is Dynamic... which means it self-adjusts the output level, based on:

The volume level you are listening at.
The actual bass level sample of the original recording.
With the Epicenter; it just takes the bass signal and cranks it up 6dB.
No real brains to it...


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

WOW!

Your thoughts of the W800 under the seat?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Your thoughts of the W800 under the seat?


The whole idea of putting the midbass under the seat is a bad design, in my opinion...
But the vehicle's interior is beautiful, and I don't want to start hacking it up to do a midbass anywhere else.

So, we are left with replacing the under-seat woofer... and the W800-NEO is as good as it gets.
There's another member (Midway) who recently did the same build, but he used the new Illusion C8 Carbon.

As far as dynamics; you need to put a fair bit of power to those W800's, in order to appreciate their potential.
In this case; I am running 250 watts to each one, from my MMATS HiFi-4250D.

The fact that they are firing up, into the bottom of the seat (and your ass) is good... and bad. 
It is good, in that; you really _'feel' _the midbass, when it's firing straight up into your body.
It is bad, in that; you don't _'hear'_ all of the midbass frequencies. EQ'ing helped this a lot.
I have these running from 80Hz to 250Hz.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Thank you so much! I understand about hacking up the car. Did you consider getting some nice door pods made for the speakers to get them out from under the seat? But still keep the niceness of the interior? Something that would look stock and nice?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

The one thing I did consider (and may do someday), is something like this:
























These are made by Jehnert, and they that look pretty good.
I wouldn't use a Jehnert one. But I would steal their idea, and have something like this fabricated.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Can you purchase their door panels with blanks?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Stay tuned... In the next few weeks I'm going to rip my entire trunk out, and re-do it.

I've got a new Hertz ML2500.3 sub (blew-apart the Audiofrog GB10D2).
I've got a Helix DSP-Ultra that needs to be mounted in a better location. 
And I've got a Zapco Z150.6-AP coming...


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

WOW, did not like the MMAT HIFI amplifiers?


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Or do you need that classic Class A/B?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> WOW, did not like the MMAT HIFI amplifiers?


Nothing wrong with the MMATS... as a matter of fact; they sound excellent!
Seriously, they are incredible amps.

I'm just a sucker for trying new things every few years. I've always been a Zapco fanboy (had Z-LX amps prior to the MMATS). 
Swore I'd never go back to A/B after the MMATS... but here we are.

I am going to replace my MMATS 6150 (front stage) with the Z150.6-AP amp, and keep the MMATS 4250 for rear fill and sub.
Should be posting a complete trunk re-do, in a few weeks...


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

NICE! I got ya! I will watch the update. Keep pushing and pressing!


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> NICE! I got ya! I will watch the update. Keep pushing and pressing!


And I’ll be watching the classifieds.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Those classified are dangerous. I was able to get my money back. That pushed me back in a way, where I will have to only deal with certain folks. People I have relationships with and etc.

Outside of car audio. How are you doing?


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

I agree but I think Jimmydee is on the trusted list. . But I won’t pay friends and family anyway so I will keep buyers protection. And apparently no WTB threads.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Yes no more WTB!!!!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Very nice, I like the distro , it’s like a compression fitting sorta but for wire. 
Never saw that before.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

More changes...

I blew-up the Audiofrog GB10D2 sub... so I replaced it with a Hertz ML2500.3 Legend.
The Hertz feels like a LOT more sturdy speaker.









I also swapped the MMATS HiFi-6150D, for a Zapco Z150.6-AP
I've always been a Zapco fanboy. Actually, the MMATS amps were my first deviation from Zapco.
Been curious about the Z-AP, since they were released... got a good deal on a used one.









I had to re-do my entire trunk to fit the sufboard... I mean amp.
Sub enclosure goes across the entire backside, and is dropped 3" on the right side to accomadate the Helix DSP-Ultra.
Amp rack is 2-tier, and has the power distribution and MMATS HiFi-4250D under the Zapco.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Before:









After:


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

You reduce the enclosure volume of the subwoofer for a larger amp? Blasphemous!


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

dgage said:


> You reduce the enclosure volume of the subwoofer for a larger amp? Blasphemous!


Optical illusion... actually the new sub enclosure it bigger than the old one.
The old AudioFrog one was 0.67 cu ft.
The new Hertz one is 0.80 cu ft.

The back of the vehicle is wider (side to side) than it is deep (front to back), so that's how I got the extra cu. ft.
The sub enclosure runs the full width of the trunk (even though it's dropped by 3" on the right side).


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## tranv9565 (Jun 6, 2017)

So how does the zapco compare to the mmats? Any difference really?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

tranv9565 said:


> So how does the zapco compare to the mmats? Any difference really?


I can definitely hear a difference. The Zapco sounds 'warmer'.

Tough to call... they are both VERY nice sounding amps. 
I think I'm just used to the sound of the MMATS.


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## tranv9565 (Jun 6, 2017)

I know exactly what you mean which is why I got myself a tube preamp to use with the Class D. Definitely made a huge difference to my ears.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

jimmydee said:


> More changes...
> 
> I blew-up the Audiofrog GB10D2 sub... so I replaced it with a Hertz ML2500.3 Legend.
> *The Hertz feels like a LOT more sturdy speaker.*


Curious what this means.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Niebur3 said:


> Curious what this means.


The casting on the Hertz basket is a lot thicker, the rubber surround is a lot stiffer, and the cone material feels a lot thicker. Plus, it uses a neo magnet.
Now, I know none of these things means that it's a better sub... but the combination of all these things gives me the impression that it is better.

At the end of the day, I pulled the AudioFrog and dropped-in the Hertz (in the same enclosure - one for one), and there was a noticable difference in overall punch.
The Hertz has more BOOM to it... ****ty way to describe it, but the Hertz just sounds better.

By no means, am I mocking the Frog sub. As I've mentioned in other posts; it lasted 3 years with fairly heavy abuse.
The only reason it failed, was because I left my hatch open for a couple hours, in minus 30 degree C weather, and then stupidly cranked the system up.
The combination of a frozen cold sub and 800 watts, did not end well...


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

The question is do you dare to test the Hertz in -30 C weather to see if it can hold up?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

gregerst22 said:


> The question is do you dare to test the Hertz in -30 C weather to see if it can hold up?


I'll do stupid once... but not twice.


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## MrHarv (Aug 22, 2017)

Fantastic work on the install. Your attention to detail is top notch. Can’t wait to see where the build goes next.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

MrHarv said:


> Fantastic work on the install. Your attention to detail is top notch.


Thanks. 
As mentioned in my original post; I don't have anything fancy, like 3D printed pieces. I just have a garage and basic tools.
But I am total OCD... and work to make things as tidy as possible.



MrHarv said:


> Can’t wait to see where the build goes next.


Every time I finish a project (or upgrade), I always think; _'there... I'm finally done'_. But then something new comes along.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)




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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Nice work, that Hertz sub does look beefy.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Thanks.
I ended-up doing a full re-tune of the system, a few weeks ago... and it made a MASSIVE difference.

For those that say; _"all amps sound the same"_... I'd have to disagree.
The Zapco Z150.6-AP, and my old MMATS HiFi-6150D have similar specs, and they are both VERY nice sounding amps... but they definitely sound different.
To be honest; when I first swapped the MMATS for the Zap; I liked the sound of the MMATS better. But that was using the old tune on the DSP.
Now that I've re-tuned; I wouldn't say there is a clear winner. They both are incredible sounding amplifiers.
The Zapco has a bit _'warmer - smoother'_ sound to it. The MMATS is very defined - Almost clinical - Similar to a Brax sound.

As far as the sub and rebuild goes;

The old enclosure was built at 0.67 cu ft - per Audiofrog spec.
The new enclosure is built at 0.75 cu ft - per Hertz spec.
I'm getting more thump out of the Hertz sub... but that's a combination of: a bigger enclosure, and different tuning (increase @ 32Hz).

Overall, I'm very pleased with the new setup.


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## bbusch (Mar 17, 2018)

Glad you picked up that sub, no doubt about it that it is the better sub of the two. The control the ML offers is unreal and now I can hardly listen to a typical JL or comparable subwoofer. 

As far as amplifier sound being the same there is no doubt the amplifier makes one of the biggest differences in sound. A nice/upgraded speaker is always great but if you really want to get that warm sound so many of us crave you will be hard pressed to find something other than class A or A/B amplifier to get that part of the job done. Getting the settings on the dsp is key but even then you will not get that warm sound unless you have introduced a preamp of sort that delivers. If one can’t tell the difference just play same system with Johnny Hates Jazz ‘Release You’ by switching out the amplifier(s) alone and you’ll be like.. “awe now I hear”.


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## bbusch (Mar 17, 2018)

If you’d like to get those neos out from under the seat perhaps you could do something like what Peter did in the following video, floor mat style. Not sure what kind of room you are dealing with in the floor mat area but to lift the floor ceiling and still be comfortable could be a challenge. Something to consider anyway.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

bbusch said:


> If you’d like to get those neos out from under the seat perhaps you could do something like what Peter did in the following video, floor mat style.


No, I wouldn't do that...
Snow and slushy boots in the winter would destroy the speakers within months, if I put them down there.
Plus, it would annoy me to not have use of the full footwell area, and have my left foot cramped.

I can see it, if you were just building a competition car... but this is my daily driver (and I drive a lot).
Having the speakers under the seats is not ideal... but it's not that bad either.


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## Nik1976 (Oct 8, 2009)

Good install with nice components set.
Esotar 430 are great midranges, but it looks like it's installed in front door w/o isolated volume behind.
With QTS as low as 0.18 it's works best in small enclosures 0.5-4 Liters (0.018-0.14 cu.ft).
It's worth to create a small enclosure behind it. 0.03-0.04 cu.ft should be enough.

I'd suggest also to replace cactory grilles for midranges. It sould significantly improve sound quality.


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## bbusch (Mar 17, 2018)

jimmydee said:


> No, I wouldn't do that...
> Snow and slushy boots in the winter would destroy the speakers within months, if I put them down there.
> Plus, it would annoy me to not have use of the full footwell area, and have my left foot cramped.
> 
> ...



Very valid points. I struggle with the idea of that area as well especially since I live in snow countryl. Having them floor mat style tho is kinda cool because they could be designed to easily remove.


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## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

jimmydee said:


> It's been wicked cold here, the past few weeks...
> So, when I first installed the Helix SDMI25 and DSP-Ultra; I kinda did a quick _hatchet job_.
> It was just too damn cold out, and I wanted to get them installed... as fast as possible, before I froze.
> 
> ...


Nice work! I was hoping you could provide some guidance to a new X3M Comp Package owner with similar intentions in mind (I.e., stealth install, sound quality):

1. Where are you picking up the power/ground for the Helix SDMI25? I just received mine, and my DSP Ultra. Trying to get that sorted out now. 

2. Are those subs good for IB? Or did you do any additional work inside the OEM housing to get them to work?

I was so excited to see this. I have Esotar 430s and wasn’t sure they’d fit but after seeing this I am anxious to get them in the car. I have Esotec tweets and was looking at maybe using the Esotar 650s under the seat (though I might go your route and do the 8” speakers). I also have AudioFrog GS speakers for rear fill. They’ll all be hooked up to 2 x NOS McIntosh MC420M amps (100 x 4/amp). I also have an NOS 8” Boston Acoustic Pro 8.5LF that I might throw under the floor in the boot. That’ll be powered by an NOS McIntosh MC301M (300 x 1).

Thanks in advance!
TJ


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

ShastaMcNasty said:


> 1. Where are you picking up the power/ground for the Helix SDMI25?


I have a KnuKonceptz Power Distribution Block, that I am using to feed power to the amplifiers.
I just connected an 18awg wire into that, with a 2amp fuse, and used that to feed power to the SDMI25 and Ultra.



ShastaMcNasty said:


> 2. Are those subs good for IB? Or did you do any additional work inside the OEM housing to get them to work?


I assume you are referring to my underseat speakers...
These are not subs. They are an 8" midwoofer, which I am running from 80Hz to 200Hz



ShastaMcNasty said:


> I have Esotec tweets and was looking at maybe using the Esotar 650s under the seat (though I might go your route and do the 8” speakers).


The Esotar 650 is a fantastic driver (I own a set myself)... but they would not be well-suited for the underseat midbass function. 
I would look at something with a bit more cone area. An 8" driver is optimal. But it also needs to be very shallow.


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

OK... I've got an update this week, and I will post another update next week.

This week, I got a set of Focal TBM Beryllium tweeters:









Here's the OEM sail (which is actually an entire window surround trim piece):
I cut out the Harman-Kardon OEM tweeter grille, and then ended-up cutting it up to the top of the sail triangle.








Bondo Time...








After 3 coats of Bondo, sanding, and glazing putty; I put on a coat of SEM Texture Paint.
Then topped it with 2 coats of SEM Black Trim paint.








Attached wires to the tweeters and heat shrink.








Installed the tweeters:








New sail panels back in !









This is my first attempt at ever making tweeter pods / sails. Haven't used Bondo since high school (mid 80's).
All I can say is; these tweeters sound PHENOMINAL! I knew they'd be nice, but I never expected them to be this detailed.

I have a pair of Mosconi PRO amplifiers to install... but that will be next week's project.
Stay tuned.


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Very excited to see your progression - it will be fun to see what combination of gear that ‘does it’ for you. Really great install - doing the best with what you have, and managing the compromises extremely well. Beautiful vehicle too! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

Getting ready to do an install on my X5 (I bought your Jenherts), I just noticed you were able to fit a single GB10 in your spare tire area. I was going to do the same with some SI BM 5's, but I have been hesitant to commit to that sub framework. Are you happy with the gb10? Depth ok? What size is your enclosure?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Gary Mac said:


> Getting ready to do an install on my X5 (I bought your Jenherts), I just noticed you were able to fit a single GB10 in your spare tire area. I was going to do the same with some SI BM 5's, but I have been hesitant to commit to that sub framework. Are you happy with the gb10? Depth ok? What size is your enclosure?


The sub sounds surprisingly good in that spot. I'm sure it would be better if it were just in a box, sitting on top of the rear cargo area... but I wanted stealth, so I sacrifice a bit of output.

I'm going from memory (if you continue to read through the build progress, you will see that I destroyed that GB10 sub, and replaced it with a Hertz and a new enclosure). But if I recall correctly; the GB10 enclosure was: 8" deep X 13" wide X 24" long. I could be off with the length measurement... but I do know it was 8" deep by 13" wide. You can use an enclosure building calculator to figure it out. The sub needs 0.60 cu ft min interior volume.






Subwoofer Box Calculator and Subwoofer Box Design


Free subwoofer box calculator online. 3D subwoofer enclosure design software. How to build a sub box design for deep bass, ported box, sealed box. Make a subwoofer enclosure plan. Online calculator subwoofer box volume, port length




subbox.pro


----------



## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

jimmydee said:


> The sub sounds surprisingly good in that spot. I'm sure it would be better if it were just in a box, sitting on top of the rear cargo area... but I wanted stealth, so I sacrifice a bit of output.
> 
> I'm going from memory (if you continue to read through the build progress, you will see that I destroyed that GB10 sub, and replaced it with a Hertz and a new enclosure). But if I recall correctly; the GB10 enclosure was: 8" deep X 13" wide X 24" long. I could be off with the length measurement... but I do know it was 8" deep by 13" wide. You can use an enclosure building calculator to figure it out. The sub needs 0.60 cu ft min interior volume.
> 
> ...


I dont think I read through the entire thing. How do you like the Hertz? I am worried about putting two shallow subs in that spot.


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

To be honest; shallow subs would be better in that location.
Ideally, you want at least 3" of air space between the sub cone and the underside of the hatch.
Shallow subs will give you this.

Check out Diy Phil's build. He did this with a shallow JL sub.








BMW X5 F15 Install - Eton, JL Audio with 3D Prints


Another vehicle… another build/install log lol. This X5 F15 one is a newer version of my previous X5 E70 vehicle… so, some parts from there work here too (recycled/reuse my own gear). It took over a year to get these installed :D  Here’s two recent photos of the vehicle. Has plenty of...




www.diymobileaudio.com


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## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

jimmydee said:


> To be honest; shallow subs would be better in that location.
> Ideally, you want at least 3" of air space between the sub cone and the underside of the hatch.
> Shallow subs will give you this.
> 
> ...


Saw that, have same car with Msport X50. I designed a box for two GB 10s with a height of 8", which give about an 1" behind the woofer and about 1" clearance from the cone to the hatch. I can do 3" clearance with the SI's.


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Gary Mac said:


> Saw that, have same car with Msport X50. I designed a box for two GB 10s with a height of 8", which give about an 1" behind the woofer and about 1" clearance from the cone to the hatch. I can do 3" clearance with the SI's.


Possibly no reverence to your situation, but I have an SI BM mkV in a 0.65 cu ft enclosure mounted where my glove box used to be and have around 2-3” of clearance from the cone to the underside of the dash and get very good extension and SPL - granted, it is in the front of the car and not in the rear of a large SUV. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

jimmydee said:


> I have a KnuKonceptz Power Distribution Block, that I am using to feed power to the amplifiers.
> I just connected an 18awg wire into that, with a 2amp fuse, and used that to feed power to the SDMI25 and Ultra.
> 
> 
> ...


@jimmydee - This is all great information, thank you! I definitely understand what you’re saying with the under seat woofers (I realize those aren’t subs, my fault!). With all of the info you provided I am very close to starting the build now (I am just waiting on some HDPE sheets to arrive so I can create the mounts for the 430s).

I thought of a couple of things over the weekend as I continued to plan for the build...

1. Do you happen to know approximately how deep the under seat woofer enclosures are? I haven’t taken the seats out yet but from the pictures I’ve looked at it appears there is about 3” - 3.5” or so(?). 

2. Did you replace the center channel speaker, or did you eliminate it? I know the Ultra has the Center Channel feature... have you worked with that at all, and if so, do you find yourself missing the real center channel or has this feature eliminated any concerns over not having it (assuming you disabled the center OEM channel)? 

This last weekend I took the center channel assembly out and was playing around in there. Both the tweeter and the mid are 4 ohms but it looks like they are hooked up in parallel (i.e., 2 ohms at the amp), with a single +\- going to the mid, which then goes to the tweeter with a high-pass filter in-line and tucked up behind the tweeter enclosure. My assumption is HK applied a high-pass filter to the channel at the mis’s low end to make this happen. I didn’t see a low pass filter anywhere in there so I imagine the mid is somewhat capable of laying in to the tweeter range (although probably not that well). I supposed this presents a challenge if you want to replace the center channel. You either have to deal with the drop to 2 ohms and account for that in the DSP/amp, or you use 8ohm speakers and run a similar set up, or you use a coax/component set that runs at 4ohms and has the crossovers built-in. Of course you can run two new lines there from the amp which will alleviate the problem altogether (note: I understand the benefit of running better wire throughout but I am trying to do this without modifying the existing wiring). 

Anyhow, just wanted to say thank you for replying to my questions not really has helped me along here and it has also allowed me to use the speakers I originally wanted to use without having to worry about major modifications!


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## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

bertholomey said:


> Possibly no reverence to your situation, but I have an SI BM mkV in a 0.65 cu ft enclosure mounted where my glove box used to be and have around 2-3” of clearance from the cone to the underside of the dash and get very good extension and SPL - granted, it is in the front of the car and not in the rear of a large SUV.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Cool. I have 2, maybe ill be good.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

ShastaMcNasty said:


> 1. Do you happen to know approximately how deep the under seat woofer enclosures are? I haven’t taken the seats out yet but from the pictures I’ve looked at it appears there is about 3” - 3.5” or so(?).
> 
> 2. Did you replace the center channel speaker, or did you eliminate it? I know the Ultra has the Center Channel feature... have you worked with that at all, and if so, do you find yourself missing the real center channel or has this feature eliminated any concerns over not having it (assuming you disabled the center OEM channel)?


The underseat enclosure is about 3". If you hang tough for a couple days, I am planning on redoing my spacer rings for the underseat speakers, and I can properly measure them for you.

I ditched the center channel. Just running stereo L/R. There's ZERO need for a center channel in a vehicle. It's not like we're watching 5.1 surround sound movies in our cars... we're listening to stereo music - left and right. Don't even worry about the center.


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## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

jimmydee said:


> The underseat enclosure is about 3". If you hang tough for a couple days, I am planning on redoing my spacer rings for the underseat speakers, and I can properly measure them for you.
> 
> I ditched the center channel. Just running stereo L/R. There's ZERO need for a center channel in a vehicle. It's not like we're watching 5.1 surround sound movies in our cars... we're listening to stereo music - left and right. Don't even worry about the center.


@jimmydee - thank you. I can definitely hang tight. I won’t be doing much until the weekend anyhow. The current delivery times aren’t working in my favor so even my prime delivery isn’t getting here until Saturday. 

I hear you on the center channel. I was thinking about some fill sound there, nothing crazy. I think I’d be better off eliminating the center channel and putting the money elsewhere! 

Btw... the Focal TBMs look like they were made for these cars. They are beautiful. Hope you’re enjoying them!


----------



## jriggs (Jun 14, 2011)

There are a couple of us that have successfully used the Scanspeak Revelator 28 and 32w subs in enclosures in X5’s. I have the 32w in a box that is about 1.68 cubic feet sealed under the false floor/spare tire area. I am very satisfied with the output. I had room to spare to also mount a Zapco Z150.6 LX In there.

You have a lot of room in that area, and with careful sub selection and box build, you can get great results while maintaining a stealth build.


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Installed the new amps today... kinda didn't want to post this, because I just did a _quick temporary_ job...

I have a new power distribution block, and some 0 awg wire coming next week.
Will do a proper 'tidy' install next week and repost.

Mosconi PRO 5/30
Mosconi PRO 4/10


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## fullergoku (Jun 21, 2009)

Would love to hear your comparisons between the Sinfoni tweeters and the Focal TBE tweeters.


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

fullergoku said:


> Would love to hear your comparisons between the Sinfoni tweeters and the Focal TBE tweeters.


Not even close...

The Sinfoni's are a nice tweeter. Actually, they're really nice. But the Focal TBM's are on a different level. They just have an insane amount of detail. 

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Wait till you try the mids..

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## fullergoku (Jun 21, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> Wait till you try the mids..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Which do you prefer Nick the Dynaudio 430 or Focal utopia 3.5?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

fullergoku said:


> Which do you prefer Nick the Dynaudio 430 or Focal utopia 3.5?


Haven't a/b'd them directly, but in my experience I gotta give it to the focal. Its sick

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

jimmydee said:


> Installed the new amps today... kinda didn't want to post this, because I just did a _quick temporary_ job...
> 
> I have a new power distribution block, and some 0 awg wire coming next week.
> Will do a proper 'tidy' install next week and repost.
> ...


The Mosconi Pros are just beautiful... love the way you set them up. How do you like them so far?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

ShastaMcNasty said:


> The Mosconi Pros are just beautiful... love the way you set them up. How do you like them so far?


They really are a special amp series. Mosconi put a lot of time and R&D into developing these. 
Aside from the pure Italian sexiness of them; they deliver incredibly clean sound. I couldn't be happier.

I like the way Mosconi has staggered the power output on the 5/30. It makes it a very versatile amp.
They've combined a Class A/B for the main stage, and a Class D for the subwoofer, into one chassis.

I combined the 5/30 and the 4/10 to run my entire system, and it sounds INCREDIBLE.

PRO 5/30:
90 watts @ 4 ohm - to each tweeter (Focal TBM)
185 watts @ 4 ohm - to each midbass (W800-NEO)
660 watts @ 4 ohm - to the sub (Mille 2500.3)

PRO 4/10:
120 watts @ 4 ohm - to each midrange (Esotar 430)
120 watts @ 4 ohm - to the rear fill (Audiofrog GB)


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

jimmydee said:


> They really are a special amp series. Mosconi put a lot of time and R&D into developing these.
> Aside from the pure Italian sexiness of them; they deliver incredibly clean sound. I couldn't be happier.
> 
> I like the way Mosconi has staggered the power output on the 5/30. It makes it a very versatile amp.
> They've combined a Class A/B for the main stage, and a Class D for the subwoofer, into one chassis.


i agree. It has become the go-to amp for us and is what made me pick up ORCA (Mosconi, Focal, Illusion, etc) in the first place.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Haven't a/b'd them directly, but in my experience I gotta give it to the focal. Its sick


I wish you hadn't said this...
I've been incredibly happy with the Esotar 430... but I've been wondering about that Focal 3.5WM

Spent enough money this past month... I might do a full Utopia M front stage (get the 3.5" and the 8"), but it'll have to wait.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

jimmydee said:


> I wish you hadn't said this...
> I've been incredibly happy with the Esotar 430... but I've been wondering about that Focal 3.5WM
> 
> Spent enough money this past month... I might do a full Utopia M front stage (get the 3.5" and the 8"), but it'll have to wait.


Kevin (Mullings) is a huge fan of the esotar stuff. He has the 3 way utopia m now and probably won't be changing anything for a very long time lol

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

I'm sure I'll have a full Utopia M front stage... but my wife will lose it, if I buy another piece of car audio equipment right now!


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Spent best part of the day today, rewiring everything... power, speakers, the works!
Ran 0 awg power wire to the PRO 5/30, and 4 awg to the PRO 4/10.
Also ran Audison 14 awg wire to all the speakers, and 12 awg to the sub.

I'm kinda fussy; so every wire is cut to exact length, and tech-flex'd, and pulled-in straight and tidy.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

^^^. A man after my own heart, that is a good thing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Been a busy weekend...

Yesterday I re-wired everything (per above post). And today; I wrapped my tweeter sail panels in Alcantara.
It was a pain in the ass, because the entire window trim / sail is one piece. Had to wrap it all.


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## Mad Scientist (Feb 12, 2017)

Jimmy - where did you source your alcantera from? There are various places on the web that state their product is genuine, but I'm still dubious of their claims.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

It's not real Alcantara... I just used the brand name to describe the material. Rather difficult to get REAL Alcantara.

I got a piece of it from a local car audio shop. He had it leftover from a prior install, and sold it to me for 20 bucks.


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## Mad Scientist (Feb 12, 2017)

Genuine Alcantara comes with an Italian price tag as well. It's a great medium for wrapping pillars, but most vehicles don't have it installed as an OEM material because of its cost compared to the much more cost effective 4 way stretch vinyl. 

As a side benefit, Alcantara's texture is helpful (albeit minimally) at reducing acoustical reflections compared to vinyl. You can even purchased foam-backed Alcantara to further reduce them. 

Pillars are looking good.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

The rest of my pillars and headliner are finished in OEM Alcantara.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

This is the stuff I got to wrap my tweeter sail panels:








Ultrasuede® | Products | Tapis Corp


Ultrasuede is a supple non-woven luxury aviation fabric supplied by Tapis Corp. Made of fine micro fibers to ensure pliability and stain resistance, it is machine washable & spot cleanable. manufactured to to ensure ease of use/care and exceptional durability.




www.tapiscorp.com





Not Alcantara brand... but still very good quality.


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## Mad Scientist (Feb 12, 2017)

I'll have to reach out to them for some samples. It's nice to see they have a wide color spectrum, and I have some ideas that are more car interior related, and a few car audio related as well.


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## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

Hey Jimmy,

Did you use a Technic PNP harness with this? Trying to determine which harness I need to connect to OEM speaker wires from aftermarket amps for my X5 install. I think its this one. I did email the company twice, no answer. 









Logic7/HK/EPS/Individual Audio/Bang & Olufsen/Bowers & Wilkins MOST OEM amp replacement hardware kit for MOST Converter applications - Technic PNP


The MOST OEM amp replacement hardware kit for MOST Converter applications is designed to replace the MOST (fiber optics inputs) OEM amp without cutting, splicing or tapping any OEM wires. A MOST Converter unit is required and not included. MOST Converter unit examples are Audison DMI and all...




technicpnp.com


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Gary Mac said:


> Hey Jimmy,
> 
> Did you use a Technic PNP harness with this?


No... I ran all new speaker wires from the amps to the speakers.

First, I ran Knuconceptz speaker wire...





Kord Speaker Wire







www.knukonceptz.com




Then I replaced it all with: Audison High Resolution - 16awg for each speaker / 12awg for the sub.
No SQ difference between the two, whatsoever... just wanted to try the Audison cable.





High Resolution Archives - Connection







connection.eu


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## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

Thanks for responding, I was thinking of using OEM wire for everything and just running new wires for the Mids since they are on a passive I believe.


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## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

Hey guys!

Not sure if this is the right place but I'd like to pick your brains(s)... 

I'm new to this and truly can't afford to throw so much (Jimmy you're insane! Yet, you're the reason I'm writing.) money at my cars' sound but, I do 
want to upgrade my M4's (HK-688) audio. I'm a noobie, so, I may be totally off! Please any and all Info./suggestions will be greatly appreciated

I want to keep my car in as much of Stock/Clean look as possible, I know the underseats aren't truly sub-woofers but, they will have to do, as I 
definitely don't like separate bass enclosures. Also, I don't feel the need to transplant the cars' stock wiring and would like to do as little 
Cut/Splicing as possible. Harness/connector adapters are definitely, Ok.

This is what I'm currently thinking...

* Technicpnp "MOST" Adapter Harness -->
* Helix SDMI25 "MOST" LO Converter-->
* Helix PS DSP MK2 (6 Ch.) DSP/Amp. -->
* Any Necessary additional wiring other than what may come in the box(es)??
* Technicpnp Speaker Mounting Adapters - With OEM Connector Wiring Adapters
* Focal ES100K Kit (Quality & Price! - I can get these for (+-) $250.00 /Kit) - (2) Front & Rear (- I don't want to mix)**
* Technicpnp SWS-8 Mounting spacers - With OEM Connector Wiring Adapters
* Center Channel - Omitted
* Audio Development W800 NEO Woofer - (2) Underseats (As per the Ravest!)

What do you Think... Thoughts??

Please advise.

Thanks!
** Again, I was looking at others - e.g.: "PHD Studio 4.1 C's" ( I can get these for a good price also but, it's 2x+ the Focals) But, for the price...?!?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Gary Mac said:


> Thanks for responding, I was thinking of using OEM wire for everything and just running new wires for the Mids since they are on a passive I believe.


Yes, the OEM speakers in the doors are run off a single (passive) connection. They just stick a capacitor (bass blocker) on the tweeter.

You can get away with just running one new wire into the doors, for the mids. And use the OEM wire for the tweeters.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Dr. Who said:


> I'm new to this and truly can't afford to throw so much (Jimmy you're insane! Yet, you're the reason I'm writing.) money at my cars' sound but, I do
> want to upgrade my M4's (HK-688) audio. I'm a noobie, so, I may be totally off! Please any and all Info./suggestions will be greatly appreciated
> 
> I want to keep my car in as much of Stock/Clean look as possible, I know the underseats aren't truly sub-woofers but, they will have to do, as I
> ...


Looks like you've done your homework...

What you will need to add, is a set of power wires (8awg minimum) for the amp (P-Six DSP). Fairly easy connection, as the battery is right there in the trunk.
That same power connection can also be used for the SDMI25 (it needs a constant 12V connection).
The SWS-8 Mounting Spacers are only 1/4" deep. Not deep enough for the W800-NEO. You'll need a 3/4" spacer for this speaker.
Everything else on your plan looks good.


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## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

jimmydee said:


> Looks like you've done your homework...
> 
> What you will need to add, is a set of power wires (8awg minimum) for the amp (P-Six DSP). Fairly easy connection, as the battery is right there in the trunk.
> That same power connection can also be used for the SDMI25 (it needs a constant 12V connection).
> ...


Hey Jimmy,

Great - Thank you!

Ok., "power wires" - Which/what would you recommend? And/Or would the following work? (Length?) -

Kolossus Fleks Kable 4 Gauge Red Power/Ground Wire - Merchandise
Kolossus Fleks Kable 4 Gauge Black Power/Ground Wire - Merchandise
What could I end these (raw wire) with?

Would you suggest I need to also get ("Stinger 9000's") RCA's (Length?)?

I'm only getting the "technic…" speaker stuff for the "OEM Connector Wiring Adapters."

Do you have a suggestion as to where I could get the proper ("3/4") thickness [Edit: Went back to your SQ Build] - to raise them, Mount on top - spacers?

Also, since I've got your ear...

What is the difference (or, what application would it be for?) in getting say, an "LC7i" (6 Ch. LOC --> 6Ch. P6?) in place of the SDMI25? -
"MOST" & Non - "MOST"??


Cheers!


----------



## jriggs (Jun 14, 2011)

Wouldn’t worry too much about the power wire. Just make sure it is high strand count OFC. I used Stinger power cables.

I also use stinger 9000 series in my X5 but only because I got them all at a fraction of their MSP. I usually use the 8000 series, they are fantastic and are a tremendous value for the money.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Dr. Who said:


> Ok., "power wires" - Which/what would you recommend? And/Or would the following work? (Length?) -
> 
> Kolossus Fleks Kable 4 Gauge Red Power/Ground Wire - Merchandise
> Kolossus Fleks Kable 4 Gauge Black Power/Ground Wire - Merchandise
> What could I end these (raw wire) with?


Those power wires would be perfect.
The end that goes into the amp could/should be bare (raw wire). The other end(s) need to terminate onto the battery positive and the car chassis negative ground post.
You'll also need a fuse and fuse holder. For the money; you're better-off just buying a whole kit, and not using the extra speaker wire:
Kolossus Fleks 4 Gauge Amplifier Installation Kit - Merchandise



Dr. Who said:


> Would you suggest I need to also get ("Stinger 9000's") RCA's (Length?)?


Yes, you will need a few sets of RCA's... Stinger 9000's are really nice (if you want to spend a lot of money).
There are lots of options for RCA cables, and honestly; a cheap pair will work just as good as an expensive pair...
As mentioned by another member; the Stinger 8000 is really good too (it's what I use). But Knuconceptz also makes decent ones at a good price.




__





Karma v3 Twisted 2 Channel Coaxial RCA Cable - 6.5 Feet - Merchandise







www.knukonceptz.com







Dr. Who said:


> Do you have a suggestion as to where I could get the proper ("3/4") thickness [Edit: Went back to your SQ Build] - to raise them, Mount on top - spacers?


Do you have a jigsaw? It's fairly easy to take out your OEM speaker and trace it onto a piece of 3/4" HDPE, and cut them out yourself.
You can get HDPE on Amazon:








Amazon.com: HDPE (High Density Polyethylene) Sheet, Opaque Off-White, Standard Tolerance, ASTM D4976-245, 0.750" Thickness, 12" Width, 24" Length : Industrial & Scientific


Amazon.com: HDPE (High Density Polyethylene) Sheet, Opaque Off-White, Standard Tolerance, ASTM D4976-245, 0.750" Thickness, 12" Width, 24" Length : Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com





If you're not comfortable doing this yourself, then there are guys that fabricate these (I just don't really know who they are).
Here's an example:





2PCs 8 Inch Bass Audio Mat Car Speaker Spacer for BMW 5 Modified Audio Mat Washer Rings Pad Adapter Kit Bracket Holder Black|Speaker Mounts| - AliExpress


Cheap Speaker Mounts, Buy Quality Automobiles & Motorcycles Directly from China Suppliers:2PCs 8 Inch Bass Audio Mat Car Speaker Spacer for BMW 5 Modified Audio Mat Washer Rings Pad Adapter Kit Bracket Holder Black Enjoy ✓Free Shipping Worldwide! ✓Limited Time Sale ✓Easy Return.




www.aliexpress.com







Dr. Who said:


> What is the difference (or, what application would it be for?) in getting say, an "LC7i" (6 Ch. LOC --> 6Ch. P6?) in place of the SDMI25? -
> "MOST" & Non - "MOST"??


The LC7i is not even in the same league as the SDMI25. The SDMI25 is a SUBSTANTIALLY better option, and to be honest; the SDMI25 is easier to install.
The LC7i is just going to tap into your existing speaker output. And that signal is going to be garbage.
Trust me. You'll spend your whole life trying to tune-out the factory EQing.
The SDMI25 goes straight to the source, and gives you a pure clean flat digital output signal. 
For BMW; the Helix SDMI25 is the absolute way to go.


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## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

Gary Mac said:


> Thanks for responding, I was thinking of using OEM wire for everything and just running new wires for the Mids since they are on a passive I believe.


Yes, the mids/tweeters for the front doors and the center channel are wired this way (the rears might be too but I haven’t done those yet). The wire for the tweeters comes off the mid speaker itself and there is an in-line high-pass filter. P

I only wired the mids in my build and it worked out well. I also used a harness from TechnicPnP that mated up with the OEM speaker wires (it acted as the female output from the OEM HK amp). I just connected the wires from the harness to my amp’s output and it connected directly to the male end of the OEM harness. This way I didn’t have to cut/splice any of the factory wires. Link to the wire harness is below. 

I have to warn you that running that mid wire to the front doors is a pain in the @ss... especially the passenger side (the Molex enters right behind the front fuse panels, so it is difficult to get the wires through).










Logic7/HK/EPS/Individual Audio/Bang & Olufsen/Bowers & Wilkins MOST OEM amp replacement hardware kit for MOST Converter applications - Technic PNP


The MOST OEM amp replacement hardware kit for MOST Converter applications is designed to replace the MOST (fiber optics inputs) OEM amp without cutting, splicing or tapping any OEM wires. A MOST Converter unit is required and not included. MOST Converter unit examples are Audison DMI and all...




technicpnp.com


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

jimmydee said:


> Those power wires would be perfect.
> The end that goes into the amp could/should be bare (raw wire). The other end(s) need to terminate onto the battery positive and the car chassis negative ground post.
> You'll also need a fuse and fuse holder. For the money; you're better-off just buying a whole kit, and not using the extra speaker wire:
> Kolossus Fleks 4 Gauge Amplifier Installation Kit - Merchandise
> ...


Hey,

Excellent Info., I appreciate it!!

Just to wrap up - The Amp. install. kit comes with one 6 Mt.(19.6 Ft.) set of RCA Cables. How many more (length?) do I need (5?)??

Confused again... Since the P6 is an integrated DSP/Amp. How do the RCA's work in here And, how does the "Technic..." harness fit in??
What does the flow "--->" look like???

HK ("688") Head Unit --->
Technicpnp "MOST" Adapter Harness --->
Helix SDMI25 "MOST" / LO Converter --->
2 Channel RCA's (How is it that I need 19.6 Ft. of RCA Cables?) --->
Helix PS DSP MK2 (6 Ch.) DSP/Amp. --->
4 Channel RCA Cable(s) ---> (What do these connect to?!?
Also, are the spacers offered in the "AliExpress" link you sent the correct ones with the proper (you indicated - 3/4") thickness?

So, I don't need a LOC. "SDMI25" it is! I'm fine with just the "MOST" convertor, correct?

Thanks again!


Cheers!


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

1. I forgot that you intend to use a Helix P-Six DSP. In that case; you don't need any RCA's.
2. What you will need is a Toslink optical cable, to run from the SDMI25 to the P-Six.
3. You will also need some speaker wire - enough to connect each speaker terminal from the Tecnic harness to the speaker outputs on the P-Six.
4. I just sent you the AliExpress link as a reference. As mentioned in the original post; I don't know who makes them (I made my own)... you're going to have to do some online research to find that out. But yes, if you're using the W800NEO, then you need 3/4" depth.
5. You definitely do not need (or want) a LOC.

Flow looks like this:

Unplug the MOST cable from the factory amp, and plug it into the SDMI25 (note; the SDMI comes with a small plastic adapter piece that you will need to attach to the end of the factory MOST cable - it's fairly straightforward, once you see it).
Run a single Toslink optical cable from the SDMI25 to the Helix P-Six DSP
Unplug the speaker harness block from the factory OEM amp, and attach the Tecnicpnp to it.
Run speaker cables from the outputs of your Helix P-Six to the appropriate wires on the Tecnic harness.
In addition to the flow above; you need to run power cables to the Helix SDMI25 and the Helix P-Six.

The SDMI25 has a remote trigger wire output, that runs to the P-Six remote input (to turn the amp on and off).


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

jimmydee said:


> 1. I forgot that you intend to use a Helix P-Six DSP. In that case; you don't need any RCA's.
> 2. What you will need is a Toslink optical cable, to run from the SDMI25 to the P-Six.
> 3. You will also need some speaker wire - enough to connect each speaker terminal from the Tecnic harness to the speaker outputs on the P-Six.
> 4. I just sent you the AliExpress link as a reference. As mentioned in the original post; I don't know who makes them (I made my own)... you're going to have to do some online research to find that out. But yes, if you're using the W800NEO, then you need 3/4" depth.
> ...


Dude,

First off - I'm sorry to be so persistent with the questions, but I'm overseas so, before actually purchasing all this (for me) expensive kit, I've got to make sure I'm
getting the right stuff for my build!

This is so very cool of you!!!

You wouldn't believe in how many (sound) forums I've posted with so very few (Isn't this what forums are for?) having actually responded ("Rocketboots") at length,
in any comprehensive manner. [Edit:] Once again...

Ok., Yeah. The "RCA's" freaked me out a bit!

Wow! Now its clear:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HK (“688”) Head Unit MOST cable ( ---> SDMi25 ) + Plastic Adapter]
H.U. OEM Speaker Harness Block --->

Technicpnp "MOST" Adapter Harness --->
Speaker Wire ( ---> P6 )
---> Helix SDMI25 "MOST" Converter --->
Toslink Cable (1) --->
---> Helix PS DSP MK2 (6 Ch.) DSP/Amp. --->
Kolossus Fleks Kable 4 Gauge Red Power Wire w/ (1) Ring Terminal
Kolossus Fleks Kable 4 Gauge Black Ground Wire w/ (2) Ring Terminals
Remote power trigger wiring
Noico .80mm (18Sq.Ft.) Sound Deadening
Focal ES100K Kit - (2) Front & Rear (I don't want to mix)
Front & Rear Speaker Technicpnp Speaker Mounting Adapters - OEM Connector Wiring Adapters
Center Channel - Omitted
Audio Development W800 NEO Woofer - (2) Underseats
Woofer(s) Technicpnp SWS-8 Mounting spacers - OEM Connector Wiring Adapters
¾” (DIY?) Thick Woofer Spacers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can the Speaker wires remain bare from the Tecnics harness to the P6 or do I have to put (RCA?) ends on them?

The SDMi25 and the P6 will be next to each other in the left side of the trunk (Bttry. on the right) of my F83. how much (+-) Power & Ground wire would you
suggest I need?

Also, since the OEM Amp. will no longer be (connected to anything?) in use, can I remove it and use its' base plate as a mounting plate for the P6?

Cheers!

Thank you!


----------



## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

+1 for @jimmydee... he is truly a stand-up guy who has shared an immense amount of knowledge with me (my current build is an X3M). All of which has saved me countless hours and helped me keep my knuckles relatively unscraped throughout my build.


----------



## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

Dr. Who said:


> Dude,
> 
> First off - I'm sorry to be so persistent with the questions, but I'm overseas so, before actually purchasing all this (for me) expensive kit, I've got to make sure I'm
> getting the right stuff for my build!
> ...


Btw, regarding the TechnicPnP adapter/harness kit, there are other options. TechnicPnP sells the pigtail but you have to purchase the speaker adapter with it (for $45/set!). If you don’t need the speaker adapter ring you can order the pigtails alone on eBay, or if you prefer, you can make your own pigtail.

My Focal tweeters had wires already soldered to them so I ended up using them and adding an OEM connector to the end. I just crimped and soldered the wire to the Molex pins that come with the connector and then you insert them (they’ll click). These are the part numbers for the OEM connector:

Male Connector (comes w/pins): 61132360043
Female Connector: 61138373583

** Note: I listed the Female Connector but chances are you won’t need it. Since you are going to run a wire for the mids in the doors (you can do whatever you want there), you’ll only need the Male connector to wire the tweeters to the existing factory harness.


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

ShastaMcNasty said:


> Btw, regarding the TechnicPnP adapter/harness kit, there are other options. TechnicPnP sells the pigtail but you have to purchase the speaker adapter with it (for $45/set!). If you don’t need the speaker adapter ring you can order the pigtails alone on eBay, or if you prefer, you can make your own pigtail.
> 
> My Focal tweeters had wires already soldered to them so I ended up using them and adding an OEM connector to the end. I just crimped and soldered the wire to the Molex pins that come with the connector and then you insert them (they’ll click). These are the part numbers for the OEM connector:
> 
> ...





ShastaMcNasty said:


> Btw, regarding the TechnicPnP adapter/harness kit, there are other options. TechnicPnP sells the pigtail but you have to purchase the speaker adapter with it (for $45/set!). If you don’t need the speaker adapter ring you can order the pigtails alone on eBay, or if you prefer, you can make your own pigtail.
> 
> My Focal tweeters had wires already soldered to them so I ended up using them and adding an OEM connector to the end. I just crimped and soldered the wire to the Molex pins that come with the connector and then you insert them (they’ll click). These are the part numbers for the OEM connector:
> 
> ...


Hey,

I think I do need the "technic" (Mid's.) speaker adapters for the ES K100's.

I hadn't planned to run any wiring in the doors or the rear panels. I thought that connecting the Mid's. to the existing (w/ the pigtails) harness was all that was needed.


??Cheers??

;-)


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Sorry for the delay in responding... I'm actually on vacation right now, so not in front of the computer much.

The list of items you posted, looks 99% complete. But you will also need an inline fuse holder with an 80 amp fuse (for the P6-DSP).

The battery is in the trunk, so you will only need about 3 or 4 feet of power wire. You should figure out where you want to mount it, and then measure from the battery to the mounting location, in order to properly determine how much power / ground cable you'll need.

You will also need some 16awg (18awg will work too) cable to run a positive and negative to the SDMI25 (in addition to the remote trigger wire, which runs from the SDMI to the P-Six).

You can absolutely remove the OEM amplifier, and mount the P-Six in that location. 

As far as the speaker wire adapters (that Shasta mentioned); I didn't even think of those, as I ran all new speaker wire to each of my speakers. Best to refer to whatever he recommends for these, as I have no experience with them / or know where to source them.


----------



## phocas (Jul 29, 2019)

Another +1 for Jimmydee, hell of a resource around here. Perhaps a bad influence too.


----------



## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

In the X3M and X6M (and likely most of the other models), the OEM wiring is actually a single wire that goes directly to the mids. There is an “out” on the mids that then goes to the tweeters (with an in-line filter to keep low frequencies out). 

If you have the center channel speaker just lift the grill and take a look at how it’s wired up in there (note: you’ll need a T-20 Torx head to get the bolts out... this is true everywhere else you need to access except for the bolts used to hold down the seats. Those were T-50 on my . Oh, and you’ll need an extension to reach the Torx bolts that hold the door card on). The wiring to the center channel is the same for the doors. 

If you are using the Focal kit and it has the crossover, you should be able to connect the OEM wire to the crossover, and then you can go directly to the mid and tweeter from there... it just means you’ll need to find a spot in the door to mount the crossover (I don’t know where a good spot is but I’m sure you’ll find a place). 

If you don’t have a crossover you’ll need to at least run one wire to each door to connect to the mids (you might as well use the larger gauge wire for the mids... I used the OEM wire for the tweeters since I was feeding less power to them). 

If you’re not clear on the layout and can’t get to the center channel let me know. I can take a picture of the layout for you!


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

ShastaMcNasty said:


> In the X3M and X6M (and likely most of the other models), the OEM wiring is actually a single wire that goes directly to the mids. There is an “out” on the mids that then goes to the tweeters (with an in-line filter to keep low frequencies out).
> 
> If you have the center channel speaker just lift the grill and take a look at how it’s wired up in there (note: you’ll need a T-20 Torx head to get the bolts out... this is true everywhere else you need to access except for the bolts used to hold down the seats. Those were T-50 on my . Oh, and you’ll need an extension to reach the Torx bolts that hold the door card on). The wiring to the center channel is the same for the doors.
> 
> ...




Ok., Mr. Mcnasty,

The OEM wiring is just like you described it. One harness that splits, towards the (top) end, to feed the Tweeter

From the Few install photos I've seen on the inter-web, the Focal (ES100K) Tweeter and Mid are wired separately. Both of these go into the Crossover (outs) and there's another
pair of connectors (in) on the crossover, which I presume is where the OEM Wiring (Harness - Bare wire) get's plugged into.

… Which I guess, is exactly what you wrote!

;-)

Thanks!


Cheers!


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

jimmydee said:


> Sorry for the delay in responding... I'm actually on vacation right now, so not in front of the computer much.
> 
> The list of items you posted, looks 99% complete. But you will also need an inline fuse holder with an 80 amp fuse (for the P6-DSP).
> 
> ...



Thanks Jimmy!

Be Safe!!

Have Great Time!!!

[Edit:] P.S.: * What gauge wire did you use for the "sdmi25" hook up? I saw the blue trigger wire @knu but, theirs is 18 gauge wire.
------------ > * Did you re-use the OEM under seat woofer enclosure with the AD Neos? If so, did you need to remove it?


----------



## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

Oh, I forgot the wire splits in the center channel. The doors is slightly different in that the split is done with the “out” connection on the mids themselves. You’ll see what I mean. Regardless, it doesn’t change anything in your setup. You’ll have the one OEM wire going in to the crossover and then your own wires coming out of the crossovers to the speakers. 

Good luck! Take lots of pics!


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

ShastaMcNasty said:


> Oh, I forgot the wire splits in the center channel. The doors is slightly different in that the split is done with the “out” connection on the mids themselves. You’ll see what I mean. Regardless, it doesn’t change anything in your setup. You’ll have the one OEM wire going in to the crossover and then your own wires coming out of the crossovers to the speakers.
> 
> Good luck! Take lots of pics!


It will be a while but, I definitely will!!

Thanks!


----------



## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

ShastaMcNasty said:


> Yes, the mids/tweeters for the front doors and the center channel are wired this way (the rears might be too but I haven’t done those yet). The wire for the tweeters comes off the mid speaker itself and there is an in-line high-pass filter. P
> 
> I only wired the mids in my build and it worked out well. I also used a harness from TechnicPnP that mated up with the OEM speaker wires (it acted as the female output from the OEM HK amp). I just connected the wires from the harness to my amp’s output and it connected directly to the male end of the OEM harness. This way I didn’t have to cut/splice any of the factory wires. Link to the wire harness is below.
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks for the response on this. I have emailed the guy to verify this was the harness, but he never got back to me.


----------



## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

Hey Jimmy,

Do you have the sdmi installed in the driver's side 1/4 panel? Does it have to be installed there?

Gary


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

Gary Mac said:


> Hey Jimmy,
> 
> Do you have the sdmi installed in the driver's side 1/4 panel? Does it have to be installed there?
> 
> Gary


Hey,

Sorry to butt in....

It's usually installed near the Amp. Since the OEM Amp. is usually (BMW cars) in that spot, most would (see my post with a similar query, above) install 
their replacement Amp. there - left rear quarter pane - and thus, the SDMi25 would be in close proximity to it.

Cheers!

;-)


----------



## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

Dr. Who said:


> Hey,
> 
> Sorry to butt in....
> 
> ...



Hey, thanks. I am going to put my DSP in the Spare tire area of my X5 (very similar to Jimmys with different gear) and just wanted to verify so I could purchase the correct length SPDIF cable. 

Gary


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

Gary Mac said:


> Hey, thanks. I am going to put my DSP in the Spare tire area of my X5 (very similar to Jimmys with different gear) and just wanted to verify so I could purchase the correct length SPDIF cable.
> 
> Gary


I presume you mean TosLink cable.


;-)


----------



## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

Dr. Who said:


> I presume you mean TosLink cable.
> 
> 
> ;-)


Not sure, im going to use a helix dsp.3 and it says it accepts a optical SPDIF input. 

Not sure what the difference is between an optical spdif and toslink is.


----------



## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Gary Mac said:


> Not sure, im going to use a helix dsp.3 and it says it accepts a optical SPDIF input.
> 
> Not sure what the difference is between an optical spdif and toslink is.


Same difference.


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Still on vacation, so my replies are kinda delayed...

The SDMI is mounted in the rear driver's side back corner (where the OEM amp is located).
I think I bought a 6 foot Toslink (SPDIF) cable to run between the SDMI and DSP.


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

QUOTE="Gary Mac, post: 5832909, member: 24224"]
Not sure, im going to use a helix dsp.3 and it says it accepts a optical SPDIF input.

Not sure what the difference is between an optical spdif and toslink is.
[/QUOTE]

Hey,

If the instructions indicate, "SPDIf" then definitely uses that!

Not to Dis... anyone here - and I may be wrong - but, I believe they're both the like the same fiber optic cable just, with a different connector/tip.

Cheers!

;-)


----------



## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

Gary Mac said:


> Hey, thanks. I am going to put my DSP in the Spare tire area of my X5 (very similar to Jimmys with different gear) and just wanted to verify so I could purchase the correct length SPDIF cable.
> 
> Gary


You don’t have much play in the OEM fiber cable so you’ll need to mount the SDMI very close to where the fiber cable plugs in to the OEM amp (I ended up mounting it using heavy duty Velcro tape to a piece of the hard plastic that is used to route wires to that area).

I then put my DSP in the cargo area, like Jimmy, and had to use a 6’ fiber cable (SPDIF) to connect to it from the SDMI. That’ll give you enough to work with regardless of where it goes in the trunk. Though there may be one or two spots where a longer cable
Is needed, depending on how you route the wires. It is, after all, fiber optic, so it’s not like you need to worry about the length so much. If you feel more comfortable getting a longer wire because you aren’t sure where it’s going or think it might require the additional length to wire it up, play it safe and go for it. 

For what it’s worth... when you’re done, and assuming you’ve removed the OEM amp entirely, you will have two small Molex connectors left that originally went in to the back side (the side facing the front of the car) of the OEM amp. Just cover them up with some anti-static tape, tuck them away and you’re all set.


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

Hey Jimmy, 

Have you ever tried the "Earthquake" ("SWS-8xi") Woofers??

Been reading and I came across something called "Thiele Small parameters".

The Earthquakes have a much lower "FS", which is supposedly better and they can take more power (RMS @ 2 ohms) than (Albeit, 87 Vs. 91 Dbs.) the AD's. 


Cheers!

;-)


----------



## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

I looked at the Earthquake and SWS OEM under seat replacements (along with the Audison and Ground Control ones, specifically). Both of them take significantly more power than the OEM ones, and quite a bit more than most of the under seat replacement woofers... but I have read mixed reviews on them. Most of the negative SWS/Earthquake reviews talked about the speaker blowing or falling apart after a period of time. I don’t want to turn you away from them (for all I know they may have sorted the issues out) but I would definitely recommend doing plenty of research before pulling the trigger. 

I spent hours on these particular speakers because of their significance to the overall system. I’m doing so I came to the conclusion that no matter who makes them, they are all going to be limited in what they can do. This is because of the parameters that the designers have to work with. Those under seat enclosures are small and awkward. There just isn’t much room to work with. I felt it was better to go with a woofer that’s was capable of playing in just about any type of enclosure, or no enclosure, and the NEOs really fit that bill. In fact, when you get them there is a letter in there that talked about why they built them... and that was exactly the reason. An 8” mid woofer that could go just about anywhere. Believe it or not there really aren’t many quality mid woofers out there that can do that!

What I will confirm for you is that these NEOs hammer really good when you have it crossed over at the right point. I just finished getting those puppies in over this past weekend and have been tinkering around with the crossover points for them. Initially I had the high pass set around 140Hz (with a 24Db curve) but after speaking with Jimmy I tried lowering them to 60Hz (with a very steep 42Db curve) and that made a huge difference. They aren’t even broken in yet and they really sound great. 

By the way... when you go to replace them do yourself a huge favor and remove the seat from the car. I was trying to get the passenger one out in my garage (it was raining) and I hardly had space on that side of the car so I tried to tilt the seat back and take the enclosure out that way. I managed to do it but it took me much longer than necessary. Don’t make the mistake I made... 

Also, if you have a newer model year BMW chances are the OEM woofer is glued to the enclosure. The earlier models had screws that held them in. If there are no screws holding them down you will have to use a hammer and a flat head to break the seal and some elbow grease to pull them away. I ended up screwing my adapter plate to the housing where the earlier models would have been mounted, but when I undo all of this I know I’m going to have to lay down a need of caulk to get the OEMs back in place. The video I linked to in one of my previous posts, from BavAuto, goes in to this and shows you how to hammer out the woofers that are glued in. I highly recommend watching it (it’s easy to damage the OEM enclosure if you don’t!). 

This is what mine looked like after I got the ADs mounted on the OEM enclosure. You can see the brass screws where the earlier style woofers would have been mounted. Those are just going through the HDPE adapter I fabricated. I think Jimmy mentioned using a 3/4” piece of HDPE. I only had 1/2” sheets so I used them and they worked out okay. The back may be a tad bit closer to the enclosure than I would have wanted but it was still a good 1/2-3/4” clearance between the back of the NEO and the enclosure. I also seem to have gotten a newer version of the AD because the speaker wire connectors are not as large and intrusive as the ones that were on Jimmy’s. In fact, they barely went past the bottom of the speaker. One thing to note: you may or may not get the oval-ish metal bits that are under the screws in the hardware package with your NEOs. I did and everyone I asked could not figure out what they were for. After giving it some thought where they are now seemed like a logic place to use them since it protected the frame from being damaged when you put the screws in:










Oh... and you don’t have to worry about grills since the OEM grill will cover it nicely and the speaker won’t touch it even sheen it’s extended to its max.


----------



## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

Stop posting AD w800 neo pics! 

But regarding the earthquakes, I have been told that if you are NOT adding a separate sub the earthquakes are the best bet. However, if you are, then the Jehnert (I actually purchased Jimmy's when he upgraded), AD and MATCH (per Skizer) are the best for midbass duty to 200ish. 

Gary


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

QUOTE="ShastaMcNasty, post: 5833134, member: 186050"][/QUOTE]


Mr. Mcnasty!

Wow! Great write up!!

Good Info. I saw a mixed review - on the durability issue also Ok., I will stick with the AD's!

If I understood you correctly your "low" pass point was 60Hz @ 42db, correct? What was your high pass?


Cheers!

;-)


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

Gary Mac said:


> Stop posting AD w800 neo pics!
> 
> But regarding the earthquakes, I have been told that if you are NOT adding a separate sub the earthquakes are the best bet. However, if you are, then the Jehnert (I actually purchased Jimmy's when he upgraded), AD and MATCH (per Skizer) are the best for midbass duty to 200ish.
> 
> Gary


Hey, 

The P6 has 2 channels with a full 230 Watts Ea., which , I believe is too strong for either the Earthquake or the AD! 

I guess I will have to throttle it ("gain" - these 2 Ch's.) down a bit vis a vis the DSP.

Cheers!


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Gary Mac said:


> But regarding the earthquakes, I have been told that if you are NOT adding a separate sub the earthquakes are the best bet. However, if you are, then the Jehnert (I actually purchased Jimmy's when he upgraded), AD and MATCH (per Skizer) are the best for midbass duty to 200ish.
> 
> Gary


I would confirm what Gary has said;

If you do not plan on adding a separate dedicated subwoofer, then use the SWS. 
You will definitely lose-out on overall sound quality, but that's the tradeoff you'll need to make.

If you do plan on installing a separate dedicater subwoofer, then:
1. The W800-NEO is the best speaker for BMW underseat (followed closely by the Focal 8WM) - of course, this is just my opinion.
2. The Jehnert is the best 'drop in' speaker for BMW underseat Midbass (not subwoofer) duty.

As Shasta mentioned:
I have my W800's crossed down to 60hz @ a 42db (steep) slope - up to 200hz @ 24db. They thunder!
I had my Jehnerts crossed at 80hz @ 24db up to 200hz @ 24db. They still pound, but you get more poop out of the W800's...


----------



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Dr. Who said:


> Hey,
> 
> The P6 has 2 channels with a full 230 Watts Ea., which , I believe is too strong for either the Earthquake or the AD!
> 
> ...


If you are planning on using the SWS Earthquakes, they yes, you will probably blow them up with 230 watts @ 2ohm.

If you are going to use the W800's, then don't worry about it. They can handle a LOT of power without even breaking a sweat...
Before swapping to Mosconi PRO amps, I was driving them with my MMATS 4250, and they handled 250 watts without a problem.
My Mosconi PRO is driving 185 watts to each of them, and they love it! Power is not a concern for them.


----------



## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

jimmydee said:


> If you are planning on using the SWS Earthquakes, they yes, you will probably blow them up with 230 watts @ 2ohm.
> 
> If you are going to use the W800's, then don't worry about it. They can handle a LOT of power without even breaking a sweat...
> Before swapping to Mosconi PRO amps, I was driving them with my MMATS 4250, and they handled 250 watts without a problem.
> My Mosconi PRO is driving 185 watts to each of them, and they love it! Power is not a concern for them.


what did you give the jenherts? Im looking at 180w/


----------



## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

jimmydee said:


> I would confirm what Gary has said;
> 
> If you do not plan on adding a separate dedicated subwoofer, then use the SWS.
> You will definitely lose-out on overall sound quality, but that's the tradeoff you'll need to make.
> ...





jimmydee said:


> If you are planning on using the SWS Earthquakes, they yes, you will probably blow them up with 230 watts @ 2ohm.
> 
> If you are going to use the W800's, then don't worry about it. They can handle a LOT of power without even breaking a sweat...
> Before swapping to Mosconi PRO amps, I was driving them with my MMATS 4250, and they handled 250 watts without a problem.
> My Mosconi PRO is driving 185 watts to each of them, and they love it! Power is not a concern for them.


Thanks! 
&
Thanks!


Cheers!

;-)


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## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

Jimmy, 

If by any chance you or Mr. Mcnasty would be willing to fabricate and sell me an extra set of 3/4" spacers, I wouldn't be put off ;-)


Cheers!


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## Dr. Who (Jun 19, 2020)

Hey you guys!

I'm being offered by someone to make these spacers for me.

Have you got any dimensions I could provide in order to get them made??


Cheers!


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Dr. Who said:


> Hey you guys!
> I'm being offered by someone to make these spacers for me.
> Have you got any dimensions I could provide in order to get them made??
> Cheers!


If you're planning on using SWS Earthquakes, then you don't need spacers... they just drop in as a direct replacement.

For the W800's; I just used the OEM speakers as a template. Traced them onto 3/4" HDPE. And cut them out with a jigsaw.
Why don't you pull your speakers out from under the seat and measure them.
Then send the measurements to the guy making the spacers? ... or make them yourself. There really isn't much to it.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Gary Mac said:


> Not sure what the difference is between an optical spdif and toslink is.


Just to clear this up; they are both the same thing.
Toslink is the brand name (from Toshiba) for an SPDIF cable.


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## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

Dr. Who - as Jimmy said you really don’t need much to make the spacers yourself. If someone is offering to make them, well, that’s really nice of them, but if you have a jigsaw you can do it in minutes (literally). Just make sure you sand off any of the fuzzy stuff that doesn’t fully come off when you make your cut. You don’t want that stuff anywhere in your speaker. 

Hopefully this will offer you some encouragement...

I just finally got everything in, all wires are good (Jimmy - that pinched wire ended up being between the amp and the OEM wires! Thankfully I didn’t go pulling the driver’s door off again to run another wire. Thanks for making me put the brakes on and think about it a bit!). A lesson to all - it’s almost always the simplest issue that is causing problems! Anyhow, with everything in and a couple of days of tuning under my belt, I am completely awestruck. The sound is out of this world. This is what I’m rocking at the moment:

_Amp/Processor_
*Mosconi Pro 5/30
*Mosconi Pro 4/10
*Helix SDMI25 Fiber Interface
*Helix DSP Ultra (it is as good as everyone says!)

_Front Stage_
*Focal TKM tweeters (will put my Esotec2 110s in)
*Dynaudio Esotar2 430 mids
*Audio Developmemt W800-NEO under seat mid woofers

_Rear Fill_
*Dynaudio Esotec MD102 tweeters 
*Dynaudio Esotec MD142 mids

_Sub-Duty_
*Boston Acoustic Pro 8.5LF subwoofer (using manufacturer recommended 0.30 sealed box)



Happy building and Happy 4th everyone!!!


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## Dr._Who (Jul 2, 2020)

ShastaMcNasty said:


> Dr. Who - as Jimmy said you really don’t need much to make the spacers yourself. If someone is offering to make them, well, that’s really nice of them, but if you have a jigsaw you can do it in minutes (literally). Just make sure you sand off any of the fuzzy stuff that doesn’t fully come off when you make your cut. You don’t want that stuff anywhere in your speaker.
> 
> Hopefully this will offer you some encouragement...
> 
> ...


  - Excellent!


;-)


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

I literally made a new set of spacer rings this morning... took all of 30 minutes.

My original set were made out of 1" thick HDPE. They worked perfectly in my old 440i. But then I transferred them into my X6M, and the seat rails in the X6M must be lower, because the cone was hitting the underside of the seat rails when I cranked up the volume. Originally, I thought I was bottoming-out the W800-NEO's, but then realized that the noise was actually the cone hitting the under-side of the seat rail.

I pulled them out, made new 3/4" spacer rings, and all-good now!

Here's what I used (2 of these): HDPE (High Density Polyethylene) Sheet, Opaque Off-White, Standard Tolerance, ASTM D4976-245:Amazon:Industrial & Scientific

Seriously, all you need is a jigsaw and a sheet of 3/4" HDPE. Use the OEM speaker as the template. Trace it with a marker and cut it with the jigsaw. 
15 minutes each to make the spacers. 
1 hour to pull both seats, replace the spacers, and put everything back together...

They aren't fancy... but they're 100% functional. Work perfectly, and I'll never see them again (unless I decide to replace those drivers with Utopia 8WM's).


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## Dr._Who (Jul 2, 2020)

jimmydee said:


> I literally made a new set of spacer rings this morning... took all of 30 minutes.
> 
> My original set were made out of 1" thick HDPE. They worked perfectly in my old 440i. But then I transferred them into my X6M, and the seat rails in the X6M must be lower, because the cone was hitting the underside of the seat rails when I cranked up the volume. Originally, I thought I was bottoming-out the W800-NEO's, but then realized that the noise was actually the cone hitting the under-side of the seat rail.
> 
> ...


Jimmy, 

If it's so easy for you  , PLEASE, make me a set, I WILL PAY!

🤓


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## NW JLUR (Dec 3, 2018)

ShastaMcNasty said:


> One thing to note: you may or may not get the oval-ish metal bits that are under the screws in the hardware package with your NEOs. I did and everyone I asked could not figure out what they were for. After giving it some thought where they are now seemed like a logic place to use them since it protected the frame from being damaged when you put the screws in:


Good call with the oval washers. Without the washer the screw could grab the rubber and twist the rubber off the frame. I saw it happen a couple of times when I was installing a long time ago.


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## MattyKHZ (Jan 11, 2010)

I don’t suppose anyone on here could point me in the right direction for hooking up a MS8 in my non MOST BMW? Just feed it from one of the rear speaker wires i am guessing?

Got to do this on our old 2009 1 series e81 before doing same on our 2016 f22 2 series.


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## lbp775 (Jul 7, 2011)

MattyKHZ said:


> I don’t suppose anyone on here could point me in the right direction for hooking up a MS8 in my non MOST BMW? Just feed it from one of the rear speaker wires i am guessing?
> 
> Got to do this on our old 2009 1 series e81 before doing same on our 2016 f22 2 series.


Perhaps look at a harness from TechnicPnp?






Technic PnP - BMW OEM Audio and Option Integration Expert







technicpnp.com


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## JPT99 (Feb 25, 2020)

Looking to replace the underseats of my ‘19 m550i. Had the EQs for a while, then installed trunk sub. Put the OEM HKs back in, which are better for this set up. Based on what I’ve read, I’ve narrowed my list down to:

AF GS8ND2
Jehnerts
Match
AD

I’m running 125W to these locations. Is that an issue? Hoping you all can help me narrow things down. Thx

ps just ordered Helix Ultra. Excited to finally have the best!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

NW JLUR said:


> Good call with the oval washers. Without the washer the screw could grab the rubber and twist the rubber off the frame. I saw it happen a couple of times when I was installing a long time ago.


The oval washers come with the AD W800Neo's hardware kit. IMO a nice touch...

Ge0


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

JPT99 said:


> Looking to replace the underseats of my ‘19 m550i. Had the EQs for a while, then installed trunk sub. Put the OEM HKs back in, which are better for this set up. Based on what I’ve read, I’ve narrowed my list down to:
> 
> AF GS8ND2
> Jehnerts
> ...


The GS8ND2 or the AD W800-NEO would be the best choice... the Jehnert's and Match speakers are not in the same league.

125 watts might be a bit light for either of these speakers though... but still worth trying.
I run 185 watts to my W800's, and they pound.


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## JPT99 (Feb 25, 2020)

Excited to install these bad boys. Shout out to JimmyDee.


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

I don't think the Audiofrog's will fit. I think they are 1/4" too deep. Just tried and I think the seat rail will crush them and no room for excursion. This is how they look with the bottom of the magnet flush with the factory bracket.










The seat rail touches across the factory grill so you can see here you only have 3-1/4" before the rail and the AF is 3-1/2" from face to bottom of the magnet. I'm about 1/4" too tall. 1/2" extra would be ideal.


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## tranv9565 (Jun 6, 2017)

I looked into the AF 8 inch and for me knew they wouldn’t fit in my vehicle. Was barely able to get the AD SW800neos in there and I believe the AF was deeper.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

That's kinda lousy... because I'm pretty sure Andy stated that these were designed (in part) to fit under 'certain European car seats'.
Other than BMW... I'm not aware of any other manufacturer that puts the midbass under the seat.


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm now contemplating using 6mm spacers and longer bolts to raise the front seats or try and find some W800NEO. I'll see how hard these are to find.


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## tranv9565 (Jun 6, 2017)

jimmydee said:


> That's kinda lousy... because I'm pretty sure Andy stated that these were designed (in part) to fit under 'certain European car seats'.
> Other than BMW... I'm not aware of any other manufacturer that puts the midbass under the seat.


I believe BMW makes a couple underseat enclosures for their cars. Some are a bit deeper/larger. I have a 2016 5 series I know it's much smaller. Hate that they vent through the sides. Has anyone looked into sealing it off?


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

How would you say the Dyn E430 compares to the AF 4"mid?


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

RocketBoots said:


> How would you say the Dyn E430 compares to the AF 4"mid?


Let me put it this way;
I use the E430 as my main stage midrange... and I use the AudioFrog for rear fill.


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## SmallSoldier (Aug 8, 2007)

tranv9565 said:


> I believe BMW makes a couple underseat enclosures for their cars. Some are a bit deeper/larger. I have a 2016 5 series I know it's much smaller. Hate that they vent through the sides. Has anyone looked into sealing it off?


If you sealed it off, the enclosure will just be too small for the speakers to play properly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tranv9565 (Jun 6, 2017)

SmallSoldier said:


> If you sealed it off, the enclosure will just be too small for the speakers to play properly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I don’t know How to read speaker specs but wouldn’t that depend on the driver that you’re using? Albeit that enclosure “sealed” would be extremely small.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

jimmydee said:


> Let me put it this way;
> I use the E430 as my main stage midrange... and I use the AudioFrog for rear fill.


Whoa!!!


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## ShastaMcNasty (Dec 10, 2017)

SmallSoldier said:


> If you sealed it off, the enclosure will just be too small for the speakers to play properly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


There was someone on here who did this and said the sound was less than adequate. Personally, I felt it was one of those situations where you’re better off working with what you’re given than trying to force it to be something it was not intended to be. That, and the fact that I will probably return the system back to OEM at some point down the road, was enough for me to not attempt this. 

That being said... I actually think there is potential to make a nice fiberglass enclosure to *replace* the OEM enclosure (if you feel the need to do so). With the factory enclosure removed and the carpeting pulled back, you realize there is a good amount of space to work with down there. Before I came across the AD W800NEOs I actually considered fiberglassing a 0.15 ft/sq enclosure to house JL Audio 6w3v3s for some punch up front. However, I’m very happy that I decided to go with the NEOs. They are outstanding speakers and work so well in that space.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Closing this thread off, as I have sold the vehicle and removed all the gear.

Look for an upcoming new build log in this vehicle: 








JimmyDee is back... and has a new car!


OK, so I stepped away for a month - for reasons I won't get into here. But today, I am back... and I have a new vehicle (I know; my threshold for keeping cars is about as long as I keep amps!) A couple weeks ago, I bought a new 2021 Audi RS5: Wicked fast car... and an incredibly nice drive...




www.diymobileaudio.com


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