# 2013 CC R-line install



## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

So this is not as big and crazy as the other installs in here, but its clean and it accomplishes what I need it to accomplish.



Products:
Audio Control LC6i
McIntosh MC-440 6 channel amp
Dynaudio system 360 3-way components

I first tried to use the JL audio clean sweep that I had left over from a previous install but it only caused me trouble. I bought the LC6i and all problems went away.

On the Dyns I sold the 8" mid and got 6.5" mids because I knew the 8s would not fit without modification.

All of the install was done by me, with an hour here, hour there. I have a new baby, and my wife and I work full time.

Here is how the factory speakers look in the doors. I did not get the factory upgrade as it was unavailable on the r-line.



I removed the speaker and based on previous VW installs I knew I had to use the factory speaker as my adaptor. I couldnt find any good pictures of a CC so I did a decent job of getting pictures:



I got out the Dremel and started to trim the speaker.

First off came the mid block off plate:



then out came the rest of the speaker and its little pieces:



Now looking at the factory speaker location, the 3" mid fit, well almost. The 3 screw holes lined up perfectly, but I had to trim a bit around the inside:


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

3" mid installed for a test fit:



after trimming the adaptor for the 6.5" it fit over the 3" mid:



I ran the speaker wire through the OEM plug and grommet. I had to drill out some unused spots at the bottom of the plug.


the 6.5" in the adaptor:




and finally the final fitting:




The crossover is huge, but was able to fit into the door panel itself. It is held in with velcro so that if I have to pull the door panel it can be unstuck.



The tweeters were pretty straight forward:


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

There isn't any reason you couldn't have installed your speakers with simple rings. I've done it on every VW I've ever owned or worked on.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Oh yea, and the amp:


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

quality_sound said:


> There isn't any reason you couldn't have installed your speakers with simple rings. I've done it on every VW I've ever owned or worked on.


after looking at what was in the car, yes you are right. problem was, i couldnt find any pictures of what the factory stuff looked like, and since this is my daily driver I needed to get the install done within the day. I couldnt take the door panel off, look, then order the adaptors, then install. Once i geared it up, i needed to remove the panel, install, and reinstall it within the 12 hour time period. This is why i hope my pictures will help people in the future, as the factory stereo is plain mediocre.

So most of you might notice that I havnt mentioned a sub. I am planning on either a CDT 12" Cast Audiophile or an Image Dynamics IDQ 12" v3 fiberglassed into the side of the trunk, behind a panel. I need to see how much volume I can get in the enclosure before I buy the sub. Look int he next couple of weeks. the face of the box I am thinking will be stained wood...think teak. For all of my fiberglass boxes ive built before i used MDF for the wood and either painted it or covered it (carpet or vinyl). this will be an experiment.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Why order adapters? You can make your own out of birch or MDF and seal them with undercoating spray. Easy peasy.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

i got my speaker adapters (same speakers as yours) for my 11' golf from a sponsor of diyma.

its toward the end of my build log here;

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...r-steath-install-stickerbomb.html#post1756395

if i were you, i would go ahead and get some duct seal and put some dampening around that 6.5 and seal up that door cavity (again, info about it in the link above)

great equipment and interesting way of putting that midrange on the door there. i like that a lot. with the upgrade, is there a midrange mounted there? what does the door panel look like?


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## Projektmkvii (Oct 3, 2012)

also try tucking your crossovers in the car but it looks good so far!


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

req said:


> i got my speaker adapters (same speakers as yours) for my 11' golf from a sponsor of diyma.
> 
> its toward the end of my build log here;
> 
> ...


it doesnt look like we have the exact same speakers. similar idea, but not exactly the same. Also, i really do not like those adaptors. I have seen some on ebay that are more like the OEM ones but without having to destroy the factory speakers, but hind sight is 50/50 now that i know what my factory speakers look like.

I dont need duct seal. The factory adapters (speakers) had a gasket (foam) and I used weather sealer to seal up around the speaker and any open areas (where the adapter meets the 3" mid.

Yes I think the factory dynaudio system has a speaker there. 

Great job on the install, for a girl.  just teasing. it looks really good.

thanks for the props on my install technique. Ill take a pic of the outside of my door panel...it does have a grill for the 3".



btw, i forgot to show this, and pardon the mess, i didnt pose anything and i keep a carpet cover over the LC6i, but here it is under the drivers seat:


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

quality_sound said:


> Why order adapters? You can make your own out of birch or MDF and seal them with undercoating spray. Easy peasy.


or even easier...do what I did. it worked just fine. If i want to put it back to stock i would need new a-pillars with factory tweeters anyways, so i can also find factory speakers too.

Not sure why everyone is so hung up on me using the factory speaker as an adaptor. it seals properly to the door, gives me the depth i needed, and cost $0.




maresgti12 said:


> also try tucking your crossovers in the car but it looks good so far!


what do you mean? its hidden in the door panel. if i put it into the door itself then its exposed to water if it possibly gets in by the window seal.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Because the stock speaker "adapters" are flimsy and ring like a son of a *****. It's like putting a sub in a cardboard box. It'll work, but it's far from ideal. 

We're just trying to help you get the most out of the system, especially since you chose to use some VERY good drivers.


He means put the crossovers in the car, not on the door. On hot days when really getting on the system it's possible for the solder to get soft enough that closing the door will cause crossover components to fall off the board. It's also a LOT easier to make changes if you need to.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

thanks for the PM dave.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

req said:


> first of all. that is my wife helping me do her install in her car.
> 
> second of all, they are the same speakers - just the basket that was used with yours has a flange to cover up that area for the OEM upgrade midrange. the *speaker* is the same, the coil is the same, the cone and surround are the same, the rivets are the same, and the basket is going to be the same size with the extra flange - so yes, you could have bought the ones i spoke of. i was just stating that if you decide to change it in the future that is an option. they are far from flimsy being more than 1\4 inch thick - much thicker than the OEM plastic basket you cut to pieces to put the dynaudio speaker in.
> 
> ...


I am sorry if I came across calling you an amateur. I did not mean to come across that way. 

thank you for the info. Yes the OEM speakers do look very similar. I didnt have rivets, but thats a very minimal difference.

I want to put 7" speakers in rather than the 6.5s so when i do that I might replace the adaptors with either MDF rings or some more solid adapters.

i understand the xover thing not but the x-overs cant be moved to inside the car as I had enough trouble getting one set of speker wires through the doors, 3 would be impossible.


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## JCJetta (Mar 28, 2013)

Very similar to my MKV, those puny OEM woofers bring back memories. Nice job! Love the car as well.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks.


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## JCJetta (Mar 28, 2013)

vwdave said:


> I want to put 7" speakers in rather than the 6.5s so when i do that I might replace the adaptors with either MDF rings or some more solid adapters.


Yep, I recently put the Dayton RS180 7" in my doors, and used two 1.5" of birch rings in order to get them in. quality_sound made some great suggestions in his install that helped me a ton.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Yea I am planning to upgrade the speaker mounting rings in my next phase.

So I am on to phase 2 of the install. I just purchased my subwoofer, a dynaudio 12". I know it's not loud, it fits perfectly with what I have in mind for this system. Thanks to the guys at Transonic for hooking me up with the deal.

I will put up pics of the sub soon and construction pictures of the fiberglass box will be coming over the next few weeks.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

JCJetta said:


> Yep, I recently put the Dayton RS180 7" in my doors, and used two 1.5" of birch rings in order to get them in. quality_sound made some great suggestions in his install that helped me a ton.


I still wish you'd done the 225s instead.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I started to improve upon the already decent factory sound insulation. I wanted to get some measurements to see which side to build the fiberglass box on. 
before:



after:



and my new 12" Dynaudio subwoofer:


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Finally something worth looking at. I started to fiberglass today. i forgot how strong those fumes are...i think im done for the day.

factory panel:


on the floor:


bare...without the panel:


Starting to mask for fiberglass. I am trying a new (to me) method, aluminum foil. I usually just use all blue painters tape. So far i like this way batter as it gives me the ability to do some forming. we shall see:


glassing started:


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## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

Wow.. nice car and build!


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## tate007 (May 9, 2011)

What head unit are you running? Check out the 2012 CC with the iPad Mini done by Soundmancaraudio. 

iPad Mini VW CC Car Dash Install- Side Slider - Soundman - Amplified Extras


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Woosey said:


> Wow.. nice car and build!


thanks



tate007 said:


> What head unit are you running? Check out the 2012 CC with the iPad Mini done by Soundmancaraudio.


Oh damn, thats your car? ive seen that link before and I am/was very impressed. Since i need to keep it all stealth i am running the factory head unit. I might upgrade to the RNS-510 at some point as I hate how small the screen is on the 315. It works fine for now though.

Do you have a thread on here of your install?


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## tate007 (May 9, 2011)

Not my car but I really like the VW CC especially in white.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

vwdave said:


> and my new 12" Dynaudio subwoofer:


This is the sub I'm lusting after. Have you figured out the size of the enclosure you're going to build for it?


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I was thinking 1 to 1.3 cuft. After the fiberglass is done I will play around with it.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

tate007 said:


> Not my car but I really like the VW CC especially in white.


Yea I see white ones all the time and I really am starting to like it too. I like mine more because the 13 r lines are still kind of rare.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

vwdave said:


> I was thinking 1 to 1.3 cuft. After the fiberglass is done I will play around with it.


Interesting. If it works in that small of an enclosure, I may purchase one after all.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I will post up the enclosure volume and how it sounds.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

Good deal.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

So with my new knowledge of how large this box has to be (as close to 2.5 cuft as possible) I added a new section to the box that I was previously not going to use. Its the space above the wheel well. I know it wont double the air space, but I will build it as big as possible and then figure out how much air space I end up with. Worst care scenario, I can just install the sub in the face of the panel and run it free air behind the panel, but this not how I prefer to do it.

Also, I am not going to flush mount the sub like i usually do on my boxes, I need all air space I can get.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

I was hoping you'd build the smaller box first. Of course that's me being selfish.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

OK so I removed the form (its not an enclosure yet) and its measuring 1.5 cuft. It might be a little bigger once its done, but it wont be over 1.75. There isnt even any more space back there to build it out to. If i need more space then I will have to scrap the trunk panel and make my enclosure the trunk panel, which means less space in the trunk.

I guess ive gone too far now to turn back. I will finish the enclosure and see how the sub sounds. Off to the hardware store for me to get some MDF and more chop mat.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Pictures of form removed and packing popcorn for measurement:


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## adamand (Apr 19, 2009)

Great install, nice and clean!

As far as the enclosure goes, is it possible to use the trunk vent as an ap mat of sorts? It looked like the vent was directly behind the enclosure. *those with Dyn experience will need to chime in here...


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I could have tried that but I decided to go a different direction.

So this is the first time this has happened to me. I cant get my fiberglass piece back into the trunk. Usually I am pretty good about making it in a shape that will give me easy access, but combining the large amount of obstacles in the way and the fact that I was making this box pretty large, I have backed myself into a corner. I kept trimming here and there with no luck. I could keep trimming and get it, but before I know it I will be down to a 1 cuft box.

So with that said, I put the fiberglass aside (i will revisit it if the dyn sub doesnt work out) and I am making my first IB setup. I know that I need to seal it all the way around the baffle, and I am also doing something to keep stuff in my trunk from slamming into my sub (and shorting it). This is the first part of it, but I plan to have this done today.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

OK so an update...Im still trying to decide what I want to do to protect my subwoofer from flying debris (strollers, tool bag, etc) but I should have some answers in a matter of hours on how this sub sounds in an IB setup. Im just waiting on the glue to dry before covering the panel for a finished look.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Ok well its done. Turned out OK. If i decide to keep this setup then I will do some finishing touches to clean it up a bit. I really need to tune as the sub doesnt appear to be doing much, but i know that its getting some signal. I know its not going to be loud, but so far its barely noticeable, so I think with some tuning I can take care of that. if I cant get any volume out of it then I will write to off as a waste of time (and a few bucks) and move on to building my fiberglass box for a more reasonable sub.









Some of the tweaks that I will do is finish making the speaker grill, and do something about protecting the back of the sub.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I'm sure it is but since it's not shown in the pics I have to ask, is it connected to your amp? An IB sub should be pretty damned noticeable even with VERY little power. Have you checked to make sure you don't have a high-pass filter engaged on the amp that's powering it?


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

should I disengage the lowpass filter? I had 5 minutes to mess with the settings so I need to spend some time and see what makes a difference.

BTW not trying to toot my own horn but im pretty proud of what I created in about 4 hours. thats including also repairing an old amp (mail man brought me some parts I was waiting on). Said amp might find its way into this install...


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Wow, that interior looks ALOT like the interior of the 2012 Maserati Gran Turismo S I worked on today.

Jay


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

JayinMI said:


> Wow, that interior looks ALOT like the interior of the 2012 Maserati Gran Turismo S I worked on today.
> 
> Jay


thats interesting, i need to go take a look. This car kind of takes ideas from several different cars. The idea and shape are taken from the Mercedes CLS, and looks Very similar to BMW 6 series sedan. I wouldnt be shocked if the interior ideas were taken from another car.
BMW








VW CC









even the wheels are VERY similar.


EDIT: the more I look at the pictures of the maserati the more I am coming to realize that lots of European companies have similar traits to their interiors. I big part of why I got my car was the interior...the quality was the best in its price range ($34k).


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

So I had more today to play with my setting on the amp and lc6i. I got it going and I'm pretty happy with it. The sub does exactly what I want it to do. On tight kick drums it gives me that missing oomph and it played the lower frequencies. It does not give massive sol but that's not what I was looking for. Amp gain is about 1/2 and I might turn it down slightly.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

vwdave said:


> So I had more today to play with my setting on the amp and lc6i. I got it going and I'm pretty happy with it. The sub does exactly what I want it to do. On tight kick drums it gives me that missing oomph and it played the lower frequencies. It does not give massive sol but that's not what I was looking for. Amp gain is about 1/2 and I might turn it down slightly.


Excellent!


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

littlemissGTO said:


> Excellent!


I know you cant run it the same way I am, but can you install it in your rear deck? I never got a chance to look at my friends GTO, but if you can manage a free air setup i think youll be happy.

So my last post was from my iPhone so I kept it short. I have a few songs that I use to test systems out, they are old school songs, but they work for me, and since ive been using these songs for 15 years I can compare apples to apples.

Smashing Pumpkins, 1979: The kicks are extremely tight and kicky. I can feel the kick in my chest and its as accurate as I have heard on any system.

Smashing Pumpkins, thirty-three: I use this song to test the bass. At about 0:35 into the song a bass frequency note starts and continues throught the remainder of the song, but changes frequencies about every 0:10. Its a little muddy in my car. The frequency change is not as crisp as it would be in a sealed box, but this part of the song doesnt exist without a subwoofer, and it is present for sure. 99.99% of people would not notice the difference, I just know how I usually hear it. This might actually be how it was intended to be heard.

Michael Jackson, man in the mirror: Once again, the kicks are extremely tight. The subwoofer is not obviously present, it just sounds like I have super incredible mids (which I do) that can play real low. If I had to point to where the bass was coming from I would swear its coming from my doors.

I also put on a couple of the Jazz channels on XM. The sax and piano reproduction overall is extremely accurate.

I also played a song called Hero, i forget the artists, but its current top 40. It has a bass note that I never knew was there. Its not overpowering to the rest of the song, but just like thirty-three, without a subwoofer you would never hear that part of the song.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

vwdave said:


> I know you cant run it the same way I am, but can you install it in your rear deck? I never got a chance to look at my friends GTO, but if you can manage a free air setup i think youll be happy.
> 
> So my last post was from my iPhone so I kept it short. I have a few songs that I use to test systems out, they are old school songs, but they work for me, and since ive been using these songs for 15 years I can compare apples to apples.
> 
> ...


There's no way it would fit in the rear deck, well not without modifying the rear deck extensively. I think I'm going to go with a Focal sub. I haven't decided which one yet. I figure if the one in my house sounds great, the car line has to be good too...LOL


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

i really like focal subs. the one i wanted had the crazy magnet but was more costly and needed more power than what i have.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

I know which one you're talking about. It's well out of my price range.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Well there are a few o them. Some are in the utopia line which are very costly but I think there are some that are more affordable.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

So for anyone keeping score, I said that I was going to build some speaker adaptors out of MDF, well I finally did it. OK, well I did one side, but I now have the template to do the other side. Again, I am restricted because I work all day, have a baby to take care of when I get home, and this is my daily driver. I have a new twist, my wife is home sick from work and she just doesnt understand any of this.






I sprayed it with a rubber coating to seal it and prevent water from damaging the MDF.


Added some sound damper to the door panel. Its already pretty solid but more solid cant hurt.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Like all other things, i did a better job on the drivers side adapter. I might remake the passenger side one now after seeing how this one came out. I think I finally am comfortable with the dremel router kit. I know that an actual router would be ideal, but its not in the budget at the moment.

After this, no more pics until I am done with the Free Air baffle board:


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Hi Dave. Welcome to the forum.

Very impressed w/ your skills. The install looks great, keep up the good work.

Randy


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks Randy, I cant wait to see your install.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

vwdave said:


> Thanks Randy, I cant wait to see your install.


The Doctor is letting me go back to work this week, so it should start soon.

I can't wait to get those MW170's fired up!

I have a set of MW 102's for the tweets, going to be running them active.

I really like the way you put the 142 and the 162 so close together, You have me wondering if I have the room to do the same?

BTW, how much power do you have running to your front stage?


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

thanks. Yea i really like how the factory placed the dyn setup, almost makes me think that VW did some research and placed the speakers that way on purpose. I didnt see a reason to reinvent the wheel, putting the mids into the a-pillars (also the airbags in there scare me).

My amp will put out 200 watts to each x-over. I havnt tested it, but i have my system set up so that it plays as loud as i can handle with the deck at 1/3 if its max volume and the gain is near 0.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

There's no airbag in the God damned pillar... PLUS the ****ing thing is bolted to the a-pillar! 

If you want pods, build pods. There is absolutely zero danger in doing so in a VWAG product.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

vwdave said:


> thanks. Yea i really like how the factory placed the dyn setup, almost makes me think that VW did some research and placed the speakers that way on purpose. I didnt see a reason to reinvent the wheel, putting the mids into the a-pillars (also the airbags in there scare me).
> 
> My amp will put out 200 watts to each x-over. I havnt tested it, but i have my system set up so that it plays as loud as i can handle with the deck at 1/3 if its max volume and the gain is near 0.


That's cool Dave. I was wondering because I always hear that Dyns like power. I will be sending 450 watts to the 170's, and 150 watts to the 102's. I think I will be making pods for the tweeters; I could have them reflect off of the dash, but I think the pods are a better idea. I hope to add a mid sometime in the future, but I don't have a great place to mount it and still keep it stealth. Maybe the kick panel. I'll see once I get them off. First I need a sub box and amp rack.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

What kind of car is it? Yea I heard they like power too but they really like the power I'm sending them.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Btw anyone interested, I'm selling the dyn sub now. I am revisiting my fiberglass enclosure with a few subs that I'm thinking about. I think I'm going old school on the sub, either an eclipse aluminum or pg Xmax.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

Did the sub not fit your needs or you just decided to go with something else?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Keep the Dyn.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I want more bass than what the dyn sub could deliver. Not sure if I didnt give it enough power or if it really just didnt like my IB setup. I have about 400 watts for it but with some of my test songs it didnt give me the impact that I desire.

It hits like a really good midbass, which I have plenty of. I need a subwoofer to play loud and low. If my install wasnt meant to be 100% stealth then I would just run it off my ZPA0.5 and im sure it will do what I want, but I need a sub that can deliver what I want off my bridged 5 and 6 channels on my Mac amp.

I was also bothered by my Baffle board. It looks ok, but takes up some trunk space, and removed the convenience of my pass through rear seats. I need something that can go into the unused space hidden behind my trunk panel.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

If you're not getting deep bass in an IB setup then you have some tuning issues. A Dyn 12 in IB should have all the low bass you'd ever want. 

Or you simply don't like clean bass.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

vwdave said:


> What kind of car is it? Yea I heard they like power too but they really like the power I'm sending them.


It's a 2007 Toyota Solara SLE. The system will be a Eclipse 5030 HU, a JBL MS-8

A Zapco Z150.4 bridged to the MW170"s. a Z150.2 running the MW102's, and 

another Z150.2 running the sub, a JL 12W6 D4 V2.

I may switch out one of the 150.2's for a 150.4 to run some mids sometime in the future, not sure yet.


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## cnut334 (Oct 17, 2009)

Nice install on the CC!


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## WhereAmEye? (Jun 17, 2013)

This is kinda like facebook. Bunch of random angry posts with a few gems here and there. Haha just kidding, good job on the build man, looks great.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

WhereAmEye? said:


> This is kinda like facebook. Bunch of random angry posts with a few gems here and there. Haha just kidding, good job on the build man, looks great.


Haha thanks. Yea for some reason quality_sound feels the need to come in here and talk smack. It's all good, nastier things have been said to me by people who actually matter to me. This is just the interwebz, nothing worth getting my panties all in a bunch over.

I am starting to reanalyze my setup. I'm thinking about going active with my 6 channel and getting a dedicated sub amp. It can all go into a false floor. If I did that I'm thinking going with the Mosconi DSP, but that change would have to wait probably a year or so. It's always good to have goals.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

It's not smack, it's the truth. IB setups give you nothing BUT low bass. If you're not getting low bass, something is wrong, period.
A Dyn is an incredibly clean driver. A lot of people don't like that sound. It doesn't "sound loud enough" because it doesn't have the second order distortion people associate with "loud". 

That's all there is to it. Either your setup has a problem or you don't like that driver. That's experience, not smack.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

That's not all I'm talking about with smack. Look through the thread, everything from my first speaker adapters being like cardboard to the a-pillar airbags. Whether you like it or not you come across like a know-it-all. When I changed speaker adapters the sound improved marginally. There are airbags in the a-pillars and I searched for crash tests of my car, the pillars do release the bag, and a speaker could become a projectile. Not a risk I'm willing to take in a daily driver that I drive my 7 month old baby around in.

In regards to the sub, how do you know what I prefer in regards to bass? What do you know about me? You can't make a judgement call on what I hear or like any more than I can of you. Truth be told, distortion bothers my ears like nobody's business. What I'm lacking in bass is not the low stuff but the upper range of a subwoofer, but also while the sub is playing low, I don't have the volume in those low frequencies. I really like the sound output from a sealed enclosure, which you can get from a single 12" IB with as little power as I am running.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

It's experience. Instead of arguing and getting defensive anytime anyone questions you or something you did you should learn to appreciate it and those that are willing to share it with you. If your feelings are getting help, well...

I know what a Dyn sounds like in IB and since you got pissy when I suggested it was install related then the only thing left is that you don't like the driver.


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## nfrazier (Apr 14, 2011)

i love the factory speaker layout in the new passats. so easy to do 3 way setups.

looks good brother.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

quality_sound said:


> It's experience. Instead of arguing and getting defensive anytime anyone questions you or something you did you should learn to appreciate it and those that are willing to share it with you. If your feelings are getting help, well...
> 
> I know what a Dyn sounds like in IB and since you got pissy when I suggested it was install related then the only thing left is that you don't like the driver.


Im not going to dignify you with a full response. you are a know-it-all and you annoy me. Respond to my updates if you like, but I am ignoring you.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

nfrazier said:


> i love the factory speaker layout in the new passats. so easy to do 3 way setups.
> 
> looks good brother.


Thanks. Yea I was pretty happy that they had it set up for the 3 way already.


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## so cal eddie (Oct 1, 2008)

If you are in so cal, I have an xmax 12 that you can borrow to see if it meets your needs. If you like it, you can buy it. If not, return it in the same condition.


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## Serieus (May 27, 2011)

vwdave said:


> Im not going to dignify you with a full response. you are a know-it-all and you annoy me. Respond to my updates if you like, but I am ignoring you.


i don't know him but i don't think it was intentional to "sound" like that, and that's the problem with message boards, tones don't come through how they're intended because there's no body language to read. part of why i don't use capitals online anymore, it kind of loosens things up a bit, to me at least. 

i like your build and the car is beautiful, looking forward to future updates!


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

so cal eddie said:


> If you are in so cal, I have an xmax 12 that you can borrow to see if it meets your needs. If you like it, you can buy it. If not, return it in the same condition.


That would be awesome. I will message you for more info.



Serieus said:


> i don't know him but i don't think it was intentional to "sound" like that, and that's the problem with message boards, tones don't come through how they're intended because there's no body language to read. part of why i don't use capitals online anymore, it kind of loosens things up a bit, to me at least.
> 
> i like your build and the car is beautiful, looking forward to future updates!


Thanks for the compliments. More updates are coming.
That's totally possible as I don't know him but why doesn't he just say that rather than coming across looking worse.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

In his defense, Quality Sound is one of the more knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to VW and Audi products. He may come across a little harsh at times, but he's frequently right. Take it how it was meant, this is just the interwebz afterall.

I got that way on the Genesis coupe forums I was on, because like everyday in the Audio sections you got the same questions asked OVER and OVER because people don't search or read. I stopped going over there unless I got a PM.

And in your defense, I've done like 3 or 4 IB setups, and only 1 actually impressed me. But only on that one did the customer give me the go ahead to do it right. It sounded odd to me, but had low bass for days. The whole car absolutely MOVED when the low bass came in. The rest of the system just wasn't up to keeping up with it, unfortunately.

Jay


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I have been driving and modding VWs and Audis since the early 90s. I'm a moderator on PassatWorld, and have been since around 2000, I am active on all of the major VWAG boards and some of the smaller ones. There isn't much I haven't done to a VW. 

I also don't spoon-feed, period. I'll ask questions hoping that you'll figure out what I'm trying to get you to see because then you'll remember it.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Well then I misunderstood you. I am a VW idiot as I've always had GM cars in the past. 

When it comes to audio though I've done it for a long time and I have been moderator in car audio for many GM specific forums. I know that everyone has opinions which is why I rarely ask questions. I tend to try thing and determine for myself if something works.

I have seen you ask questions of me, just throw statement at me, in a belittling manner. I am open to advise but only when the person is respectful or has a really good point.

When it comes to the IB setup, I needed to be really impressed to keep it. My expectations of it were unrealistic, so I had no problem abandoning it. I have always been a fan of sealed enclosures and apparently I can't wrap my head around an IB setup.


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## JCJetta (Mar 28, 2013)

quality_sound said:


> I have been driving and modding VWs and Audis since the early 90s. I'm a moderator on PassatWorld, and have been since around 2000, I am active on all of the major VWAG boards and some of the smaller ones. There isn't much I haven't done to a VW.


I've been on Vortex since 2002 (same username). I've owned 4 MKIV 1.8Ts and still have my current MKV. Everyone except my Jetta (leased) had at least an ECU tune. I've driven my current car a few times on stock mode, and it just doesn't cut it for me, especially on the freeway. 

Kinda like how stock audio systems just don't cut it either. 

Anyway, I'm happy with the 3-way PPI system in the doors of my MKV. I think after I get the new Alpine deck with the 9-band para EQ, I'll have even more fun with tuning it.

I've learned a ton from the 2 years I've lurked this forum; I wish I would have found it years ago (at the same time my wallet is glad I didn't). Having input from other VW guys that are at a higher level than me, especially without having to pay for it, is - _priceless_! :laugh:


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

vwdave said:


> In regards to the sub, how do you know what I prefer in regards to bass? What do you know about me? You can't make a judgement call on what I hear or like any more than I can of you. Truth be told, distortion bothers my ears like nobody's business. What I'm lacking in bass is not the low stuff but the upper range of a subwoofer, but also while the sub is playing low, I don't have the volume in those low frequencies. I really like the sound output from a sealed enclosure, which you can get from a single 12" IB with as little power as I am running.


Quality_sound is actually right... When people hear a low distortion subwoofer or substage setup, they, 95% of the time, don't care for it much. 
Eric Stevens has written many times that a small amount of distortion is "appreciated" in a substage. 
^ the above is why Quality_sound talked about the possibility that you did not like "clean" bass. 

Distortion in the mid and high range is different than that from the low range. 

You're not getting the "smack" from your sub setup - did you try to reverse the polarity of your subwoofer? Is your substage in phase with your midbasses? Also, dynamics comes from the 1kHz to 4kHz range - try to focus on that range in order to get some "smack" back. 
One thing that could help is also to use a subsonic filter, you might be getting too much bottem end which could muddy the sound. 

Don't worry though, when you'll have your setup going and TUNED, you'll learn to love your clean subwoofer 

Kelvin


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

vwdave said:


> I really like the sound output from a sealed enclosure, which you can get from a single 12" IB with as little power as I am running.


What do u like about a sealed enclosure that has you thinking it will sound like an IB12? Those 2 configurations sound very different to me


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

BigRed said:


> What do u like about a sealed enclosure that has you thinking it will sound like an IB12? Those 2 configurations sound very different to me


I'm going to bet he meant to type "can't get from a 12 IB setup."

Nobody proofreads anymore. LOL

Jay


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

JayinMI said:


> I'm going to bet he meant to type "can't get from a 12 IB setup."
> 
> Nobody proofreads anymore. LOL
> 
> Jay


you are correct...and i was posting from ym stupid iphone...my giant fingers dont mesh well with that keypad.

correct, they are worlds apart and I thought i might be ok with IB, but i now know that I need a sealed box and the correct sub for that setup.

I am revisiting my fiberglass enclosure and looking at a few different subs. Maybe it is distortion that I like, but i seriously doubt it.

My biggest test is a song by The Smashing Pumpkins, called Thirty three. I heard them live and i know how it should sound. There is a bass note that starts about :35 in, and continues to the end of the track, it just changes frequencies. Yes, with the IB i hear all frequencies. problem is, some frequencies are louder than others. I need my sub to maintain the correct volume as the frequency goes up and down. That might be my amp as this is the first time I am not using a dedicated sub amp in years.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

vwdave said:


> you are correct...and i was posting from ym stupid iphone...my giant fingers dont mesh well with that keypad.
> 
> correct, they are worlds apart and I thought i might be ok with IB, but i now know that I need a sealed box and the correct sub for that setup.
> 
> ...


If you need your freqs to sound as if they had the same level (volume) then you don't need another substage - you need an EQ. 

Kelvin


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

It's not an eq issue. The sub has limitations and that song revealed them. Similar to a band pass box, the IB setup played some frequencies better than
Others.

Keep in mind, most people that run IB are using 1 or 2 15" subs with decent power. I was running a single 12" that size wise is more like a 10" with less than 400 watts. This is why I didn't have high expectations, and this setup delivered what I thought it would.

You can't squeeze blood from a turnip. If the sub can't produce the frequencies then an eq won't magically make it happen. I've had an eq in the past, it's great for fine tuning existing frequencies. It won't fill in frequencies that sub not capable of producing.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

vwdave said:


> It's not an eq issue. The sub has limitations and that song revealed them. Similar to a band pass box, the IB setup played some frequencies better than
> Others.
> 
> Keep in mind, most people that run IB are using 1 or 2 15" subs with decent power. I was running a single 12" that size wise is more like a 10" with less than 400 watts. This is why I didn't have high expectations, and this setup delivered what I thought it would.
> ...


Ok you lost me lol 

Which freq the sub can't produce? 

Kelvin


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

subwoofery said:


> Quality_sound is actually right... When people hear a low distortion subwoofer or substage setup, they, 95% of the time, don't care for it much.
> Eric Stevens has written many times that a small amount of distortion is "appreciated" in a substage.
> ^ the above is why Quality_sound talked about the possibility that you did not like "clean" bass.
> 
> ...


Great post, Kelvin.

Dave, as Kelvin said, if you didn't spend any time to tune the entire SYSTEM as a coherent whole, your mid-bass drivers or other factors may have been cancelling out those frequencies from the IB sub setup that you think were "missing". EQ can't always fix everything, but it CAN do A LOT if your midbass-to-subwoofer transition is phase-coherent at the listening position. Tuning this type of system can take days or even weeks to figure out what is going on and optimize to full potential.

Bass is funny that way. There can be very odd "room" nodes throughout the vehicle. In the passenger seat you might experience a 10dB boost at say 50Hz, while the bass in the driver's seat is anemic.

Have you ever experienced low-frequency "chuffing" or modulation while on the highway and sitting in the driver's seat and one of your rear seat passengers rolls down their window halfway? It's kind of like blowing accross the top opening of a jug or bottle to produce a musical tone, except the window is the opening and the car is the jug. Your passenger doesn't hear or feel the tone or "chuffing" where they are sitting because that frequency is corner-loading at your particular position in the car. Roll that window up or down a bit and the "chuffing" disappears because the "port tuning" of the opening is no longer modulating the volume of air within the vehicle.

These low-frequency interactions will be true with any type of subwoofer setup, but IB is a different animal because of the unique way that the subwoofer cone may be "loaded" or acted upon very differently, and at different specific frequencies from the front of the cone as opposed to the rear.

So IMO you shouldn't be so quick to rule out an IB setup. Yes, it usually takes serious tuning and optimization for an IB setup to work *properly*, but once it's dialed in, the transient response and integration is, as many here will describe, deep and "effortless".


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## JCJetta (Mar 28, 2013)

bbfoto said:


> Have you ever experienced low-frequency "chuffing" or modulation while on the highway and sitting in the driver's seat and one of your rear seat passengers rolls down their window halfway?


Yeah, open the moonroof but keep the windows up, go about 40mph. Every VW I've owned created this phenomenon that sounded like bass drum pressing against my ears in that situation. Open the windows and it is fine.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I hear what you guys are saying. I was really bad at describing my issues.

i guess I had volume at all frequencies but it was not giving me the impact that I was looking for at the upper range (right around where the mids fall off). I know that this is where a sealed enclosure shines over the IB setup. I do know that I had to do some tuning (or adjustments) as the cone was not moving too much, but I want to play around with my sealed box now and see what happens. 

The dyn is on ebay, but im not getting much interest. Its also on here without much interest. If it doesnt sell then i might end up keeping it and playing around with it or i might stick with the sealed box as I have access to a Phoenix Gold Xmax and I really want to try out.

As promised I revisited the sealed box in the side panel. I trimmed it up to get it in and out of the pocket, and here is the progress...




it looks like some sort or a sith...


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

If that sub would have worked with my set up, I would have been all over it.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I hear you. I think that's the overall issue with this sub is the volume requirement. I have always use a sealed box because its small and easy to make.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I might have a deal pending on the dyn sub.

in the mean time, got the enclosure trimmed and test fit into the car. Still needs about 3 layers of fiberglass (already got 1 layer done inside the enclosure). the base is already about 5 layers.







it was a pain to get around the spring, hinge arm, and random wires and brackets. I will check the volume, but with poly fill a normal 1 cuft requiring sub should work no problem.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Here are some better pictures of the enclosure, and then some with the sub mounted. I need to do some finishing work on the enclosure, and then of course test it to see how it sounds. this will all happen this weekend.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

OK so slight update... I tested the sub. This is without poly fill and without completely sealing up the box (no gasket and not sealed around the speaker wire) and I think I know my problem. This amp is great for mids and high but its gutless when it comes to running a sub. I should have taken a clue when it only would allow 8 gaige power wire (I ran 4 thinking this is a 6 channel amp, no way it only takes 8).

Dont get me wrong, i really love how it sounds right now, but its still a little on the weaker side. I have the gains up to 3/4, theres a 45 hz boost, its at +8dB (tried it at 0 and +4) and the crossover is set at 80 hz (oh crap, now that I think of it, it should be higher, 120 hz I think is the other option). Well either way, im thinking that when Im done restoring my ZPA0.5 I will run that for my sub (i know its overkill) and then run my Dyn 3 ways active. This means I will need a 4-way active crossover? So I will build a partial false floor for the amps between my spare and my seat backs (theres enough space, i measured). yes my trunk will have a step in it, but its deep enough that it wouldnt be obvious. The sub should be fine being left where it is.

This all might change when I finish the box and fix that crossover setting.

oh and if you are looking at the last picture of the sub thinking "that sub is missing screws" yes you are right. That was a test fit. When i actually ran it i had all 8 screws in.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

UPDATE: I decided to read the owners manual. I didnt have it until recently when a member on here emailed me a PDF of it. It turns out that when using the built in low pass filter theres some unique things to know. There are 3 settings, OUT, 80Hz, 120Hz. When using the OUT position, thats using the internal low pass filter (non adjustable) with an external input into channels 5 and 6. When using either of the other two options, its an adjusted filter to that frequency, but takes the summed signal from the other channels, and crosses them over at your selected frequency. Now heres the important part, those 5 and 6 channel inputs now become an output which can be sent to an external subwoofer amp. If you connect RCAs to that, it drastically reduces the output on the speaker channels.

After reading this, I tried flipping the switch to OUT, using the sub channels from my LC6i (which does not have a crossover that I know of) but i didnt like the output so I UNPLUGGED the RCAs, effectively running 1 set of stereo RCAs into my 6 channel amp, and the output to my sub went up drastically. It now sounds phenomenal. I do still need to finish sealing up the box and putting in poly fill.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

With that in mind, I think exploring IB again would be a good idea.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

You might be right but I've already sold that sub. To be completely honest I really like how stealth this sub is. If I hadn't sold the dyn sub I would be open to retrying it. I even still have the baffle board in my garage.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

Well isn't that a bite in the keister?


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

littlemissGTO said:


> Well isn't that a bite in the keister?


Nah not a big deal. No regrets. I always wanted one of these subs and now I have one. I played with my settings
Some more and it's just getting better and better. Still not perfect but once the poly fill arrives I'm sure I will be able get it just right.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

Cool. I'm looking forward to your results.


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## SouthernSlam2013 (Jun 27, 2013)

vwdave said:


> Oh yea, and the amp:


Would you kindly provide details how you mounted your macintosh amp under the rear deck? Great job!

Is there enough air space above for ventilation. I assume that amp does get hot!


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

because the vents/heatsinks are on the sides rather than the top it works. on the side closer to the rear seats I ran bolts down from the top side and use nuts to hold the amp in place. I had 3/4" spacers to space the amp slightly away from the metal. Toward the rear i pre-drilled holes and used sheet metal screws to screw the amp into the cars metal. I used loctite to keep the screws from backing out. There are openings in the underside of the rear deck to allow air flow through, and the amp uses the airspace in the trunk to keep the amp cool.

I have never had the amp overheat yet.


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## SouthernSlam2013 (Jun 27, 2013)

vwdave said:


> because the vents/heatsinks are on the sides rather than the top it works. on the side closer to the rear seats I ran bolts down from the top side and use nuts to hold the amp in place. I had 3/4" spacers to space the amp slightly away from the metal. Toward the rear i pre-drilled holes and used sheet metal screws to screw the amp into the cars metal. I used loctite to keep the screws from backing out. There are openings in the underside of the rear deck to allow air flow through, and the amp uses the airspace in the trunk to keep the amp cool.
> 
> I have never had the amp overheat yet.


With powerful amps, do you recommend a battery capacitor and/or the big three way, especially for econo car small engines?


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

You will find that generally caps are found to be a gimmick in terms of how they are used in car audio. The big three is always a good idea, especially when it comes to a system and a small motor.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

So I removed the enclosure to be finished. I installed a terminal cup, only after trimming it and using a heat gun to melt it and conform to the box. I also used "milkshake" to line the inside of the box to verify I didnt have any leaks and to help prevent resonance. After stuffing the box with poly fill and covering the box with carpet I reinstalled. The box is sealed up really well, verified with the cone push test. 

I have not had time to tune the amp, but initial impressions are great.









and ive already posted this, but Ill do it again, with the covers back on:


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Great work Dave, wish you lived in MD...


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks randy. Any progress on your install?

So my frustrations continue. I'm getting more output from my sub than ever before, but I think my factory deck is limiting me. Now I'm not sure if I want a. New deck or a DSP. I like the functionality of my deck now, but if the deck cuts off lower frequencies at higher volumes then I don't have lots of options.

Anyone who knows about VW decks, when I us Ed the RCA output of the runs-315 does that remove the limitations?


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## slowride (Jan 26, 2009)

vwdave said:


> Thanks randy. Any progress on your install?
> 
> So my frustrations continue. I'm getting more output from my sub than ever before, but I think my factory deck is limiting me. Now I'm not sure if I want a. New deck or a DSP. I like the functionality of my deck now, but if the deck cuts off lower frequencies at higher volumes then I don't have lots of options.
> 
> Anyone who knows about VW decks, when I us Ed the RCA output of the runs-315 does that remove the limitations?


The RNS 315 does not have RCA outs. What it does have is the ability to be coded for a Dynaudio system which lowers the output from speaker level to line level. Some say it does clean up a little. With a dsp you should be able to de-eq the input and get a cleaner signal to work with. But I have seen a lot of builds that state the factory head unit was the limiting factor in sound quality for late model vee dubs. That scares me because I plan on using my factory head unit. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

itsmyturn said:


> The RNS 315 does not have RCA outs. What it does have is the ability to be coded for a Dynaudio system which lowers the output from speaker level to line level. Some say it does clean up a little. With a dsp you should be able to de-eq the input and get a cleaner signal to work with. But I have seen a lot of builds that state the factory head unit was the limiting factor in sound quality for late model vee dubs. That scares me because I plan on using my factory head unit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Sorry I used the wrong term, I was referring to changing to line level. Do I need to do that through VAG COM? I would like to change head units but I want an OEM look, Bluetooth is essential and I want to keep the factory stuff ( rather than adding a mic), and I want to keep my steering wheel controls. If there were an aftermarket deck that did al of that I would spend up to $2k on it.


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## slowride (Jan 26, 2009)

Yes a VAG COM or factory scan tool is necessary to change the coding. VAG COM makes it easy because it has a long coding helper to assist what you are changing. 

I agree with you on the factory integration. That's why I'm keeping mine. Bluetooth, MDI, and multifunction display on the cluster is the main reason I want to remain stock. Of course I'm using a RCD 510. I may switch it to a RNS 315 though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## fast94tracer (Jun 23, 2013)

Just so you know the new 8" alpine unit has an integration module that will give you all the readouts on the mfd and use of your steering wheel controls .

I don't drive fast I fly low!!!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The RNS-315 is flat at all volumes. There is ZERO need to de-eq it. I wouldn't even bother setting it for Dynaudio either. The signal doesn't change AT ALL and all it does is cost you volume. Unless your amps/processors can't handle that much Voltage, leave it as is. I ordered some VW repair wires and swapped out those pins on the HU then added RCA ends instead of tapping into the wires directly. Look at my build log to see what I mean.


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## fast94tracer (Jun 23, 2013)

well thats good to know but when you run it that way how bad is the noise level?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

You mean in non-Dynaudio mode? Why would it be any different that in Dynaudio mode? It's actually better than most HU RCA level because speaker-level is a balanced signal. I'm running my RCD-510 into my 6to8 and it's dead silent. It's actually dead silent into my PS8 as well but the 6to8 handles OEM integration a bit better so I'm using that even though the PS8 is a more capable unit. 

I've actually been debating picking up a RNS-315 or an RNS-510.


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## fast94tracer (Jun 23, 2013)

OK i was just wondering since i know that a slight static can always be a problem and i really don't want to lose my deck but i will if need be.
I was worried that the RNS-315 messed with the bass as you turned it up.
if i run it as high level into a DSP will i have full use of the volume range and stay clean till it reaches max volume?


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

quality_sound said:


> The RNS-315 is flat at all volumes. There is ZERO need to de-eq it. I wouldn't even bother setting it for Dynaudio either. The signal doesn't change AT ALL and all it does is cost you volume. Unless your amps/processors can't handle that much Voltage, leave it as is. I ordered some VW repair wires and swapped out those pins on the HU then added RCA ends instead of tapping into the wires directly. Look at my build log to see what I mean.


ive seen your install, actually i keep referring back to it, i really like what you did. I didnt do exactly what you did, but I did something similar. Ive been contemplating going back in and using some of your ideas, but instead of repinning I would use my male and female adaptors, just use the speaker plug from it (rather than everything). my mac will take speaker level in, but im running it through an audio control LC6i because I thought it would be better to convert to line level. if i ran straight from the deck to the amp I would need a remote source as i couldnt get anything with more than 11 volts, and thats not enough to turn my amp on. the LC6i gives me a full 12 volt turn on signal from signal sensing.

I was reading on vortex something about the VW decks rolling off the low frequencies as the volume increases to protect the factory speakers. this is not true of the RNS-315? I am kind of confused now as I finally got my amps manual and discovered what I was doing wrong before in regards to the sub. I made the adjustments, and I have some output on my sub now. The cone moves, and when Im right next to it I can hear the sub. Its not moving as much as it should be if my amp is giving it full output, and its not enough to keep up with my dyns for mids and highs. I know its not my box as its built well, its dead (very little resonance) and without leaks. there is enough bass for most music, but the main song that I use to test the bass is not giving me what I would expect (taking into account the small box, low power, and strong mids/highs).

BTW ive been debatinng getting an RNS-510 as well, but im not fond of running an external bluetooth module under the passenger seat. I was waiting to see if they came out with an RNS-515, but it looks like they going to a new shape radio for the next generation now.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

fast94tracer said:


> OK i was just wondering since i know that a slight static can always be a problem and i really don't want to lose my deck but i will if need be.
> I was worried that the RNS-315 messed with the bass as you turned it up.
> if i run it as high level into a DSP will i have full use of the volume range and stay clean till it reaches max volume?


That will depend on your processor and how much Voltage it can handle. At some point it is possible that you will clip the inputs. I can get up to 20 out of 30 pretty easily and I. KNOW my gain structure is all jacked up.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

vwdave said:


> ive seen your install, actually i keep referring back to it, i really like what you did. I didnt do exactly what you did, but I did something similar. Ive been contemplating going back in and using some of your ideas, but instead of repinning I would use my male and female adaptors, just use the speaker plug from it (rather than everything). my mac will take speaker level in, but im running it through an audio control LC6i because I thought it would be better to convert to line level. if i ran straight from the deck to the amp I would need a remote source as i couldnt get anything with more than 11 volts, and thats not enough to turn my amp on. the LC6i gives me a full 12 volt turn on signal from signal sensing.
> 
> I was reading on vortex something about the VW decks rolling off the low frequencies as the volume increases to protect the factory speakers. this is not true of the RNS-315? I am kind of confused now as I finally got my amps manual and discovered what I was doing wrong before in regards to the sub. I made the adjustments, and I have some output on my sub now. The cone moves, and when Im right next to it I can hear the sub. Its not moving as much as it should be if my amp is giving it full output, and its not enough to keep up with my dyns for mids and highs. I know its not my box as its built well, its dead (very little resonance) and without leaks. there is enough bass for most music, but the main song that I use to test the bass is not giving me what I would expect (taking into account the small box, low power, and strong mids/highs).
> 
> BTW ive been debatinng getting an RNS-510 as well, but im not fond of running an external bluetooth module under the passenger seat. I was waiting to see if they came out with an RNS-515, but it looks like they going to a new shape radio for the next generation now.


Mine already has an external BT module so it would be an easy swap for me. There's already a cutout down there for the module and its foam cover. 

Yes, the new one is different. 

I thought the bass rolled off but it's either a phase issue or a null in the car. Bing measured the outputs and they're the same at 10, 20, and 30 (full volume) on the volume scale.


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## mnjordan (May 23, 2013)

That is such a sexy car, and I love, love, love the pure stealth aspect of this install. Killer gear as well.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

quality_sound said:


> Mine already has an external BT module so it would be an easy swap for me. There's already a cutout down there for the module and its foam cover.
> 
> Yes, the new one is different.
> 
> I thought the bass rolled off but it's either a phase issue or a null in the car. Bing measured the outputs and they're the same at 10, 20, and 30 (full volume) on the volume scale.


I know I have the spot for it, and i might make the jump and i am slightly bothered by my small display. Did I see you say somewhere that the RNS-510 isnt as clean sounding as the 315?



mnjordan said:


> That is such a sexy car, and I love, love, love the pure stealth aspect of this install. Killer gear as well.


Thanks. Im pretty happy with it overall.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I wasn't terribly thrilled with my last 510 but that may have been the B1.1 or the older firmware. Mine was in my 07 Rabbit and 08 GTI. 

I need to look at the interface again. I haven't played with the 315 much. One thing I always liked about the 510 was the ability to change the screen colors.


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## slowride (Jan 26, 2009)

the 510 is nice, but the newer ones lock up easy. Don't press buttons too quickly or you will have to reboot it. The 315 is way faster than anything else VW has currently. We were told that it's because it lacks a hard drive, but I haven't done any research to that. 

I will say that if you have and use an iPod, especially a classic and like to dig through your music, 315 is the way to go. Being able to use that knob in the center makes it so much easier while driving. Sliding the bar on the screen on the RCD and RNS 510 sucks when the car is moving. It gets harder when you have 1300 albums and you are just looking for one.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

The hard drive theory is possible. When did the RNS-510 first come out. We had an equivalent unit in my wife's Chevy equinox with a hard drive, Bluetooth, DVD, xm....and it ran very well. I have a hard time believing that GM can do something better than VW.

So I figured out sub issue. It was more amp strangeness. Rather than having gain control Macs have input sensitivity controls. According to the manual, it's the opposite of gains. The higher you set the input sensitivity the cleaner your signal. I read that previously but I couldn't get my old ways out of my head. I tried turning it up to max and lowering my lc6i gain almost all the way down, and my bass improved. I also switched the polarity of my subs speaker cable and it improved more. I'm now happy with the system....finally. I can't believe how different this Mac amp is from anything I've used before. The only limitation that I don't like is that for both the low pass and high pass xover you are limited to nothing, 80hz or 120hz. I'd like to set my components to 100 rather than 80 as they seem to be slightly strained lower than 100. Also, I'd rather have the sub play to 100 as I'm not I like how it sounds higher than that. So I guess 80-120hz isn't as clean as I'd like it, but most people would still be impressed and wouldn't even notice any issues.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Input sensitivity IS gain but as long as its sorted that's all that matters. 

The 510 has been out since at least 2007. Maybe 2006. It's OLD. 

If the center knob helps iPod navigation I'm in. I hate the look that but that's SAY more functional than the scroll bar on either of the 510s.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I thought input sensitivity was gain too, but my goal is usually to use as little gain as possible. For some reason this amp wants it as high as possible.

Yes that center knob is great. I miss it other cars when I play with their stereos.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

So now starts my next phase to the install. I bought a JBL MS-8 and I am finishing the restoration of my Phoenix Gold ZPA0.5. I am going active with my McIntosh Mc440, considering a center channel, and then running the Xmax sub off my ZPA. I will have both amps sitting in a false floor in the trunk, the MS-8 is going opposite side of the trunk from the sub behind the trunk panel. There is a factory access panel that will give me access to the unit.

With this upgrade I am running all new speaker wire, 3 runs needed for each side plus 2 channels going to the factory deck, and an extra speaker wire going behind the deck for possible center channel addition later. I am getting all new RCAs as well, going with knu crystal series...or maybe their higher end stuff, not decided yet.

Question to anyone who is even reading this anymore, does anyone make a low profile 16 gauge speaker wire? With so much wire I would prefer it not be so bulky. I don't want 3 channel (6 conductor) wire as I like the flexibility of not running them all exactly together (thinking when they go into the doors).

Also, I used to know of a website that made heat shrink that you could have them print stuff on. Anyone know of someone who still does that. Not print as I writing, you can order it in different colors with writing on it. My plan is to color code my highs, mids, lows, left, right with colors and have it printed on the heat shrink. Also, where is everyone getting that tech flex? 

This phase will take several months but I am doing it right. I am open to suggestions but I've also already got most of it mapped out in my mind.

Before I start any of this work, I am installing a PPI PC275 to run my sub. I want to hear it all with decent output to my sub. This will tell me if I need a second sub, which the ZPA is capable of powering.


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## fast94tracer (Jun 23, 2013)

There is flat solid wire that has adhesive on one side and I think it gets up to 14g

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks for the heads up.

I decided to go a different direction on the speaker wire since i couldnt find a decent 6 conductor speaker wire. I ordered 50 ft of 7 different colors of 16 gauge wire that I will braid myself. I also ordered 50 feet of clear tech flex. I will then heats bring each individual pair of speaker wires once they separate by the doors. It should work out pretty well. The price on custom printed heat shrink to cover the entire length of the wire was cost prohibitive.

I also got notification that the MS-8 shipped. I hope I can get this done in a reasonable time frame.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

hmm...nobody seems to care that I am now going active.

My MS-8 arrived and my 7 individual colored 16 gauge wires arrived. I twisted each pair and then braided them together. I am waiting on my tech flex to arrive, but in the mean time I am heading to the store to get clear heat shrink for each pair of speaker wires on the ends.

I am in need of a good set of 6 channel RCAs if anyone knows who makes any. Not a fan of Stinger. I saw that Memphis offers some, not sure who is actually manufacturing those though.

Sorry for the blurry pics, my good camera is charging and my iphone isnt the best apparently.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

Where do you find clear heat shrink? I'm still watching your build, as we're doing pretty much the same thing at the same time. Great minds eh?


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

nice build there : )


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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

littlemissGTO said:


> Where do you find clear heat shrink? I'm still watching your build, as we're doing pretty much the same thing at the same time. Great minds eh?


I don't know about Dave, but I have found it on Parts Express... I believe it was 3M... I haven't been able to find it locally, but I probably haven't looked hard enough


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## Jaloosk (Jan 13, 2010)

I'm watching it too 

Being sick and tired of the mass produced, overpriced crap RCAs on the market i opted to use the DIY thread here to make my own. Way better option IMHO and you can make them custom to exactly the length you need. They're easy to make too.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

littlemissGTO said:


> Where do you find clear heat shrink? I'm still watching your build, as we're doing pretty much the same thing at the same time. Great minds eh?


There is a place in southern Cali called Fry's that is like a Costco size electronics store. They have all sizes and colors of heat shrink. I paid about $3 for 3 feet of 1/2" shrink and $1.50 for 3 feet of 3/16" shrink. I looked online and it can be ordered from a few companies with custom printing on it but you need to order it in large quantities and it is cost prohibitive. Pm me if you want me to get some for you. If you need more than a 3 foot piece then you will have to order it online in a roll.



Noobdelux said:


> nice build there : )


Thanks.



Jaloosk said:


> I'm watching it too
> 
> Being sick and tired of the mass produced, overpriced crap RCAs on the market i opted to use the DIY thread here to make my own. Way better option IMHO and you can make them custom to exactly the length you need. They're easy to make too.


I might just do that. I will have enough of my custom 6 conductor speaker wire left over so I will just need to order up 12 RCA connectors and its done. 16 gauge might be big for RCAs but its cheaper than buying all new 18 or 20 gauge wire.

Speaking of which, more products arrived today...can anyone guess what it was that arrived?


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Don't worry Dave, I have been checking your built progress, since my built (when it happened) will be very similar. I would still worry that the Mac will have enough ass to drive the Dyn speakers.
I am very interested the center channel speaker. While I am going to start w/ a passive front stage, I will be going active w/ center channel. I am going to have to find a way to mount the 170's and the 142's on the door.

Good luck.
Randy
e


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

I'm very familiar with Fry's. Unfortunately, they are not here. I visited their stores in Chicago quite often. I appreciate you offering to get some clear shrink wrap for me, but I will start my build before it could get here.
Making your own RCAs is pretty cool. I ended up getting custom ones made locally, and the store treated me really well.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

RandyJ75 said:


> Don't worry Dave, I have been checking your built progress, since my built (when it happened) will be very similar. I would still worry that the Mac will have enough ass to drive the Dyn speakers.
> I am very interested the center channel speaker. While I am going to start w/ a passive front stage, I will be going active w/ center channel. I am going to have to find a way to mount the 170's and the 142's on the door.
> 
> Good luck.
> ...


Well right now with the 4 channel part bridged I am getting plenty of power. The power will be the same going active but distributed differently.

I'm still waiting to see your install.



littlemissGTO said:


> I'm very familiar with Fry's. Unfortunately, they are not here. I visited their stores in Chicago quite often. I appreciate you offering to get some clear shrink wrap for me, but I will start my build before it could get here.
> Making your own RCAs is pretty cool. I ended up getting custom ones made locally, and the store treated me really well.


I didn't know they were in Chicago too, I figured it was a California and Vegas thing (like In-N-out burger).


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Ok got both sides of the speaker cable done.

























Yes I know that they are not braided exactly the same, I did a better job this last piece. Doesn't matter, it will be hidden under carpet anyways.

I also ordered tech flex for my RCA that I am building and I also ordered some for the speaker level wires going to to the ms-8 which will also have speaker wire for a center channel (future expansion). Each of these two pieces of tech flex are different colors, not clear. Stay tuned for all of that wire construction.

I also got a piece of 12 conductor wire from parts express that has foil shielding and I got RCA connectors from them as well. I'm still debating if I want to use wire pants or heat shrink. I can't find 6 channel pants so I would have to use a 4 and a 2, or I can make it look clean with heat shrink. Price isnt too different.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Picked up some heat shrink to finish off the speaker cables and to create wire "pants" for my RCAs. I couldn't find 6 channels pants so heat shrink will have to do. I also got numbered pieces of shrink (in the bag) to label each channel.









And I took time off to watch my Trojans


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

I'm digging the costume on the dog. That's pretty neat.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

haha thanks. its a trojan on a chariot, making my dog the horse, or in this car Traveler (Tommy Trojan's horse). This is the only time my dog gets a costume, I threw out all of my wife's other costumes for him.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I just ordered these and was wondering if anyone had experience with them: http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=171115816910

I had ordered some off parts express but they arrived and weren't what I wanted.

Also the 12 conductor wire hasn't come yet but I think the 1/2" tech flex will be too thick som I'm thinking I need to order some 3/8". I'll wait for it to arrive to be sure.


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## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

I you are asking about RCA male connectors with locking - I can tell you that I've used similar connectors in the past.

On a cheap amp they simply yanked the female RCA plug right out of its socket!

To be honest I do not see a reason to use such forceful connectors in a car unless the amps are under the seats and you have kids legs going all over the floor :laugh: 

These connectors are large and clumsy for small spaces like a car, this is my POV about it.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

eddieg said:


> I you are asking about RCA male connectors with locking - I can tell you that I've used similar connectors in the past.
> 
> On a cheap amp they simply yanked the female RCA plug right out of its socket!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input. This why I asked. Do you have another suggestion? All of the higher end male RCA ends seemed to be locking. I thought locking referred to the set screw at the end that locks the wire in place so that the connector doesn't pull off the wire. I had a connector pull off my monster pro series because it was too tight and the connector was cheap.

I don't think my amp will have an issue, but I want to see what the alternatives are.

Oh, I see you are in Israel. I want to visit so bad, my wife has been many times.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

So the wire and tech flex came. I am now just waiting on the RCA ends. 

















I got the snake pattern because I wanted to be different. It should look nice once it's done.


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## Jaloosk (Jan 13, 2010)

I have the exact same stuff lol same pattern everything. I'm using it on white coax though so it looks a little brighter. I love your choice!


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks. I ended up with black wire. how many channels is yours? i had a hard time finding 12 conductor cable with shielding, let alone having a color choice. 

I was looking for it in your install thread but no wiring photos yet. Curious what e snake print looks like with white wire inside.

Wait til I do the signal speaker wire, I got a different pattern. I wanted to be able to distinguish by the flex.

Now I need to decide which to use under the hood with the power wire...I might use the one that is yet to be unveiled.


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## Jaloosk (Jan 13, 2010)

I went poking around my photobucket for pics of what I made, but evidently didn't take photos yet. I will take some in the morning and upload them tomorrow. 

For under-the-hood stuff, I like to keep it black, so that it's hard to distinguish that there's anything aftermarket in there. I like to keep it as stealth as possible in the engine bay so that potential thieves are not easily attracted, say when you're checking your oil at the gas station.

Mine is only two channels (just two cables) using regular shielded TV coax cable to move the signal from the head unit to my MS-8.


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## Jaloosk (Jan 13, 2010)

So I got off my lazy butt and just took some photos and uploaded them to my build log for ya. 

They're at the bottom of this post: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1960504-post17.html


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Jaloosk, your cables look fantastic. I wish I had the space to do 6 individual cables.

Here's an update on the custom RCA cable. I'm 1/2 way done with soldering the ends on. I'm learning as I go since this is my first 6 channel RCA cable, and first time using higher end plugs.

I know that the heat shrink isn't cut straight but that won't effect the sound and I like how it's turning out.

















And if you wonder what I'm using as a strain relief, I didn't have the springs that everyone uses, but I have this stuff called pharmed tubing. The inside and outside diameter were perfect, so it's under heat shrink and allows me to use the set screws on the connectors, but it also holds the wire in place, without putting strain on it.


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## littlemissGTO (May 23, 2013)

Those cables are looking pretty darned good.


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## Jaloosk (Jan 13, 2010)

Oh you got the snakeskin techflex...cool! I like your cables.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks. The real test comes when I hook up the ms-8.

Now I have new decision that I made. I had 4 gauge run from the battery back because the Mac uses 8 gauge, but now that I'm using the ZPA and the ms-8 needs juice I am thinking I need 2 gauge. A pain in the butt, but not horrible since I already have to run all new wires and I'm already through the firewall.


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## ae0859 (Feb 16, 2012)

Subscribed! I'm really digging what you did. I'll be starting on my 11 CC Sport within two weeks and since both generations are very similar, I made to sure to read every post carefully


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Cool. Any questions just ask. I will be sure to post details when I rip it all apart and redo everything.

It looks like I am shooting for the week of sep 23 as my wife will be in Budapest for the week for work. I plan to create a false floor to house my amps, install the MS-8 behind the p.s. trunk panel, and run all new wiring for the active setup. A lot to do in 1 week working full time.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

ae0859 said:


> Subscribed! I'm really digging what you did. I'll be starting on my 11 CC Sport within two weeks and since both generations are very similar, I made to sure to read every post carefully


What are you planning to install?


Very slow progress but I finished my RCA cables. I also ordered the Audison distribution block, 2 gauge wire, larger fuse holder, tech flex for the power cable, and some sound proofing for the doors(well not ordered yet but working with him on what to get).


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## ae0859 (Feb 16, 2012)

vwdave said:


> What are you planning to install?


I'll be sticking with the stock HU as I like the functionality and clean, factory look, MS-8 for processing, Focal FPS 4160 to power Focal Krx2 in the front and Focal PS165 in the rear. As far as sub stage, thinking IB with a Dayton RSS390HF powered by Arc Audio SE 2150, but if I get lazy I'll end up using Image Dynamics IDQ12 in a sealed box (as I already have one and Dayton I would have to purchase) powered by another Arc Audio amp (can't remember the model). Plan is to get as much done as possible over the weekend, no sure if there will be time to take many pictures, but if you have any questions I may be able to chime in.

I was going to pm you asking about MS-8 wiring, as I'm kind of confused... Searched but couldn't come up with a straight answer. When connecting your factory radio to it, do you really have to use just signal from front speakers? I want to get wires ready before we even get cracking, but don't know how many


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Well I'm using signal from just the front, but if you want to fade front and rear from the deck then you should be able to use the front and rear inputs. I see that you are using rear speakers so that might be how you want to do it.

More stuff arrived today. I got my 2 gauge power wire, 1/0 ground, distribution block, and my tech flex arrived. Unfortunately, the carbon tech flex that I ordered for the power wire was too small (I swear I ordered 1/2" but I got 1/4"), so I used some carbon and white stripe stuff that I had for another project. I like the effect it has over the power wire, turning it pink and purple(should please the wife) but I may change the portion under the hood once I get some plain carbon stuff that fits.

Oh, I included the RCA in the picture because...well...I wanted to. You can vaguely make out the different colors on each channel, which is how I will know what channel is what. I used nail polish (yes, I raided my wife's collection).


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## ae0859 (Feb 16, 2012)

So based on your initial post, you're doing a 3 way front stage. What about the rear, stock speakers, or do you not plan on using them? If I don't have to run extra wires, I'd prefer not to. I'll be using MS-8 controller for everything except choosing sources, skipping songs and possibly volume adjustment. So once again from understanding, front inputs should be all I need and DPS will then send the signal to front, rear and sub stages.
Not to thread jack, but I'm really liking all the wiring you did!


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks on the wiring. The candy cane tech flex is going away before it all gets installed.

I am leaving the rears stock speakers running off the stock deck. 95% of the time they are off. They only go on when my kid is in the back. I am not a fan of the stock separates being that the tweeters are mounted right next to my head.

If you are ok with fading through the ms8 then all you need are the front speaker lines.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

the work has started. I think I have my layout, to see more options I have a poll thread going in general car audio.


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## DonH (Jun 25, 2009)

sweet job so far


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## ae0859 (Feb 16, 2012)

Dave, would you happen to have more pics on how you attached your IB board? I looked in mine and there's ideas flowing, but figured maybe you have some pointers.
Thanks


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

It was just press fit. I didn't want to worry about mounts until I knew I was keeping it.

So I have some updates...

Here's the to do list to accomplish by Friday:









Speaker ring modifications:
How it was :









How it is:

















And did this...


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

I know that these updates can be boring, but I wanted to keep it updated for those who are following along.

First off, I drilled all holes in the bottom portion of the false floor. I have since installed the rivet nuts (or whatever they are called, the metal threading like what I used on the speaker adapters).









And I got some wiring done. I ran the 2 gauge power wire (still fabricating my fuse mounting bracket), I connected the passenger side speakers, and ran the drivers side speaker wires. You may notice that the tech flex changed for the speaker wire, I replaced the too large 1" clear flex with appropriately sized 1/2" platinum flex. 

I was able to run the cables down a factory wiring channel, so fitting is not an issue.


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## ae0859 (Feb 16, 2012)

Waiting to see what you come up with for main fuse bracket


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

ae0859 said:


> Waiting to see what you come up with for main fuse bracket


Well you are going to have to wait one more day. Trust me it's nothing exciting.

I did make some progress tonight as tomorrow is my last day to work on it for a while. It needs to be functioning but not necessarily done. I'm leaving the final cosmetic things for last in case I need to finish those up later.

Anyone that is keeping up (or wants to look up a little to see my last checklist) here is an updated checklist.









Mostly everything that I did was boring and not photo worthy, but one thing came out ok. I hid the ms8 behind the PS trunk panel. I have easy access by removing a factory cover, kind of col that they kindly supplied these cool hidden access panels.



















Remember what I did on the drivers side...


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Looking really good Dave, how does it sound ?


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks Randy. Well, I came on here to update with pictures and info, but in short, my MS8 is not working properly, IE at all. It looks to be connected properly, but when I power up my car my amps cycle from off to on to overload, over and over. The screen for the MS8 is not turning on either.

That all being said, it looks pretty decent. I stilll have to make a beauty board but at least everything is connected (of course considering that I have my PPI amp standing in for my ZPA as I finish its restoration).


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## Skierman (Mar 3, 2008)

vwdave said:


> Thanks Randy. Well, I came on here to update with pictures and info, but in short, my MS8 is not working properly, IE at all. It looks to be connected properly, but when I power up my car my amps cycle from off to on to overload, over and over. The screen for the MS8 is not turning on either.


Try disconnecting the remote out on the MS8 to see if it will power up without having to power up your external amplifiers. If it does start up, use a small wire to jump the 12V power and the remote out to see if the amps power up normally. I'm assuming that you have overloaded the remote out of the MS8.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

thanks for advise...I was actually doing that as you typed this. heres what happened:

got 14 volts to power
Got 6 volts to remote in
remote out cycled between 12 volts and 0 volts. (amps disconnected)

It seems like it is giving a square wave...my understanding was that 4+ volts are all thats needed to turn on the MS8, am I wrong?


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## Skierman (Mar 3, 2008)

vwdave said:


> thanks for advise...I was actually doing that as you typed this. heres what happened:
> 
> got 14 volts to power
> Got 6 volts to remote in
> ...


Not sure. Disconnect the remote out and see if the MS8 powers up then. If it doesn't, try jumping power direct from the B+ input on the MS8 to the remote in on the MS8. 12V to 0V may be the MS8 trying to turn the amps on, having too much draw and shutting off, then trying to turn on again, repeat repeat.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

OK thanks. I am out of time today to troubleshoot, I will have to try it another day. Thanks for the input. BTW, I had the remote out disconnected on that last test. I might need to reset the MS8 though. I didnt think that powering up 2 amps would hurt it.

Out of frustration I decided to work on the beauty board. not done by any means, but a start...


and heres shots of my inline fuse holder and the mount that made for it:


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Ms-8 issue resolved.

Now time to tune. My current tune is as such:
Subsonic filter: 20hz
Sub/front: 65 Hz at 24dB/oct
Low/mid: 60 Hz at 24 dB/oct
Mid/high: 3500 Hz at 24 dB/oct

Any suggestions to try I am all ears. That is the 5 setup, the previous ones didn't sound very good. I am happy with this but I would like more kick from the mid, maybe bring in the sub at 50 or 55hz?

I couldn't find the freq range for the xmax12 (I like it from about 20 - 60)but to refresh everyone, the Midbass are MW160gt (55 - 3500), mids are MD140 (700 - 6000) and tweeters are MD100 (2200 - 30000)


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

vwdave said:


> Ms-8 issue resolved.
> 
> Now time to tune. My current tune is as such:
> Subsonic filter: 20hz
> ...


Try 80Hz - 800Hz - 4kHz all @ 24dB/oct

Kelvin


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks, I will try it tomorrow. I see that 800 is drastically different than my current value for front lo/mid. Is that why I seem to have lost my Midbass? I am still getting used to what they are referring to on each value. I can't adjust the crossover points without redoing the entire calibration, right?

I also need to lower the gain on my sub amp, it's overpowering the rest of my system.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

subwoofery said:


> Try 80Hz - 800Hz - 4kHz all @ 24dB/oct
> 
> Kelvin


Thanks again for the advise. You got me in the right direction. Currently it's at 70, 700, 3500 all at 24 dB/oct and it sounds incredible. I might tweak a little more but it's great for now.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

vwdave said:


> Thanks again for the advise. You got me in the right direction. Currently it's at 70, 700, 3500 all at 24 dB/oct and it sounds incredible. I might tweak a little more but it's great for now.


Glad I could help a little  

Kelvin


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

So I didn't get to take any daytime photos of it, but here's a photo of it finished (for now).

I might mix thighs up a bit with he beauty board when I get back from my work trip.










I also apparently mixed up a couple of my RCAs and caused all kinds of tuning troubles. I now have it sorted out and the sound is pretty good. Not perfect but better than it's ever been.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

So for future expansion and improvement I a thinking of replacing my Mac with a Zed audio leviathan III. If anyone knows someone who would be willing to trade, send them my way.

Btw, I had some gremlins with the sound. I never fully explained what was happening. I would balance left to right but either way I'd hear sound from the right. Also,never heard Midbass from the right side. Turns out I swapped the left and right mid RCA cables. Not sure. Also, I need to test my right side Midbass RCA cable as I can't get it to turn on. That issue considered, the system sounds great.

I have been out of town for a week and won't be back for almost 2 more weeks. When I get back I will finish troubleshooting and then it's time to finish restoring the ZPA.

Good news is the wife got a better job, so more money freed up for audio gear.

Stay tuned for two more installs coming, an S2000 and a bad ass G8 GT.


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## Dylanmott (Jan 11, 2013)

how thick is the wood for the floor you made?


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Whats up Dave? Just sent you a PM.


Randy


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Dylanmott said:


> how thick is the wood for the floor you made?


I used 3/4" mdf because that's what I already had...but that's going in e trash, along with all other parts of that install.

I removed the McIntosh and sold it (well sort of) and I'm running two Phoenix gold ZPA0.5s. I decided to remove the spare and utilize that space for the amps, ms8, line driver, and power distribution. Then I'll have a 1/2" floor with cut outs to reveal the setup. I'll then have a full trunk to throw the spare in during daily driving duty and remove for weekend family outings or car gatherings.

The process is taking a while, and some steps were not captured, but this will bring us current...

So I created a fiberglass mold of the inside of the spare tire well and made some pieces of an amp rack. Here is where I'll start off, when they were joined...


















This is a test fit in he car. This is by no means a final fitting or really even close to a final product. I was just checking for spacing and layout. Don't mind the other crap, I'm keeping one amp in the car to have tunes during this process.




























And a coup,e of shots including the custom RCA cables that I made and my line driver.



















I will update when I have more progress.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Oh, and the white ZPA won't be in the final install, I have 2 black ones. Once the install is done, the white amp is getting a fresh powder coat and it goes into the collection.


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

Made some progress today (thanks to a slow work day). I hope to get it to 80% by the end of the weekend.

P.s. I know that the amps are not straight, the adjustment is easy and I will make it before the final install is done.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Omg dude those amps arent straight!  Looking good, makes me wish i had a trunk.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

Looks good Dave; Keep up the good work!!!


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## vwdave (Jun 12, 2013)

REGULARCAB said:


> Omg dude those amps arent straight!  Looking good, makes me wish i had a trunk.


Yea, having a trunk makes some things easier.



RandyJ75 said:


> Looks good Dave; Keep up the good work!!!


Thanks Randy.

It may not look like much progress, but trust me it is. I wired up a switch to toggle between the factory trunk light and cold cathode tubes down by the amps. I also straightened the top amp a little and mounted all of the surrounding items to their board.

Here it all is with the cold cathode tubes on but with flash









And no flash









I might have to reposition the tubes to get better reflection.

This will all make more sense when it's done.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

vwdave said:


> my wife is home sick from work and she just doesnt understand any of this.


Amen Brother... I think most of us married guys can relate.

I can already hear my wife; "you have a BRAND NEW CAR, why are you taking it apart???"


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