# Do you like JL Audio products?



## michaelkingdom (May 20, 2010)

I've been in this hobby for a few years now and I'm interested to find out about people's perceptions of JL Audio. I've been to a few car audio shops where techs have expressed dislike for JL while others have mercilessly praised them for their quality.

My system is a patchwork of Hertz / JBL MS8 / Image Dynamics / Infinity / JL. I have the JL 13w7 woofer running off the 1000/1 JL amp and I absolutely love it. That said, I don't know if I'm blissfully unaware of something...?

Do you like JL products?


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## whitet (Apr 10, 2009)

I personally have never had any JL products, but I really want to try one of their 5 channel amps (HD900/5).

I have my eye on one of those.. small footprint and can power my entire system while being under the seat!

Interested in what others have to say.


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## mephistopholes (Jul 30, 2006)

Shops tend to sell what they sell. The salesman that was trashing JL probably didn't have a wall of JL products behind him he was trying to move but rather a wall of one or more competitors he would have you believe made better stuff. I would walk away from that shop. 

If you love your sub/amp setup, then that is all that matters.

My only experience with JL is with a 10w1 many years ago. It was a nice little sub. Would not have won any spl competitions but it ran very well for what I needed it to do.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Like with many things, when you reach a certain level of Popularity, then anything except that is "better" or cooler, despite how Good it really is.

JL Audio has been around ALONG time. They have continued to make stellar products for years and continue improving and releasing new and better products.

Ive run just about every major amp brand , from Arc Audio, Genesis, Helix, ID Q series, MTX, Mosconi etc...and am now switching all my amps out to JL HD Amps.

I think its a testament to the qualify and performance of their products when guys like Mark Elderidge and Scott Buwalda use the amps and other products w/ no modifications or changes.


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## ou812 (Oct 25, 2008)

Mic10is said:


> Like with many things, when you reach a certain level of Popularity, then anything except that is "better" or cooler, despite how Good it really is.
> 
> JL Audio has been around ALONG time. They have continued to make stellar products for years and continue improving and releasing new and better products.
> 
> ...


Very well said and I agree.


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## Pitmaster (Feb 16, 2010)

Anyone ever had the foam surround split on the joints? Had this happen on a 10W3 a while back.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm a huge JL fan. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JLTw7 (Apr 4, 2012)

Yes I do. Been using a couple of their products ever since. Probably there are a lot of good or better products out there but I am happy with what I have used.

12w7
13w3v3
12w0v3
12w6v1
15w0v1
zr650 CSI
a4300
gmax 1200
HD600/4
HD1200/1


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Never had an issue with any JL product I've used that wasn't my own fault. I've used their original W6 & W3 series subs, & now have 3 of the HD amps. Couldn't be happier. 

I also heard the ZR 6.5" mids in the dash of a car a couple weeks ago that sounded great. He also had ZR800 8" midbass in the kicks, those things got down.


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

JL Audio is one of the only companies that I have used and had no issues with.


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## Lars Ulriched (Oct 31, 2009)

I think the foam surround on 12W6 is not suitable in the climate here...it often got crack after 3 years..


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## gu9cci (Mar 28, 2011)

I use before the HD amps and they are great.


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## Khymera-B (Oct 6, 2009)

Loved the JL amps and subs that I've owned. No complaints. Always met and often exceeded expectations.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

I love my JL slash amps. I dont care for the HD full ranges, I tried to like them but just couldnt, I dont know what it was but they didnt bring out the "aliveness" of my front stage. If space was a issue I could like them if I had to, I think I would go ZED though. 

The W6v2 is amazing at its street price. W7... Only the 13 does it for me. Everything else is just average chinesse production for what it is. 

The speaker line up isnt anything special, the crossover points are horrible. Who wants tweeters that cant take power below 4K? Not in my install.

My ZR800s look like they where glued by a pre schooler. Sound pretty good though.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I love the amps and subs. Comps are nice as well but I think their best products are the subs and amps.

I ran a pair of 12W6s for 8 years in Vegas and Phoenix summers with absolutely no issues. Still have them, used them sealed, ported, bandpass, and IB. I've also run the 10 and 13W7 at one time or another and they always surpassed expectations. 

The HD series amps are tiny power houses with very low noise floor and make more than rated power. I've directly compared the HD amps with my McIntosh, the older JL A/B amps, the Leviathan, etc, and the HD is every bit as good in SQ and actually seem to be less harsh when pushed past it's limits. I'm not saying any of those amps sounded better than the other under normal conditions but the HD is definitely just as good as the McIntosh and sounds better when pushed.

Some people hate JL only because they're mainstream or because the W7 doesn't cost $50. I think you get a lot of sub or amp for the money.

I'm still tempted to do a pair of 13W7s in a future IB build.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

JL has consistently made quality products over the years which is why they are still an industry giant. You may pay more than a "lesser" brand, but you get quality product and engineering for your money. I think it also says alot that they have survived using their dealer networks for this long while others have had to sell out to big box chains and reduce the quality (or percieved quality) of their brands. 
They continually advance and engineer new terrific products instead of regurgitating the same old as well- HD amps, XD amps, W7 series, TW5, etc.

I have only used a few JL products over the years, mainly because of their pricepoints, but what I have used has been great.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Search JL Audio in the build log section. Look how many members with many years of experience are using them. (Answer found)


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I have used JL subs, amps and components on and off since 1992/93 and have NEVER had a single component of theirs fail, and trust me I tried. In the new build I will be using JL gear and I dont care what people think. It works, it works well and it can stand the test of time in a car and that is all I need.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

captainobvious said:


> JL has consistently made quality products over the years which is why they are still an industry giant. You may pay more than a "lesser" brand, but you get quality product and engineering for your money. I think it also says alot that they have survived using their dealer networks for this long while others have had to sell out to big box chains and reduce the quality (or percieved quality) of their brands.
> They continually advance and engineer new terrific products instead of regurgitating the same old as well- HD amps, XD amps, W7 series, TW5, etc.
> 
> I have only used a few JL products over the years, mainly because of their pricepoints, but what I have used has been great.


A few things here... JL is sold in 95% of the shops in a given area. They are normally the best things these shops carry, not many have the "good" stuff. Normally they are up against other mass produced big box brands, not much compatition here. They "advance" every 10 years but still charge as much as they still charge as much as they did when introduced. I dont have anything against the products, I use them. But they are not the end all car audio company. when you pay JL retail price you are not only paying for that product but the R and D on their home audio line, I'm not buying home audio and could care less.

with that said, for a SQ based company they are priced pretty good and hold their own


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## indytrucks (Apr 5, 2009)

Who cares what anyone else thinks. If you like it and are happy with your products that's really the most important thing.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

yeah JL was around and when i first started out in this hobby, and dual w0s was waht i ran for a long time as my first ever full system. i think a lot of good points has been made above, what i think is:

1. becuase of their popularity, it is easy to say dislike them, since every one and their brother and dog wants JL...however, if a product is good, its good, and when my customers ask about JL, being that i don't carry JL, i say this "JL makes a fine product up and down their line, nothing crap, i can offering you similar performance at similar or sometimes lower costs, i think because JL is popular, they can, and rightfully SHOULD charge a lil extra for their products...you get a tried and true product line" so yeah, i do agree with the sentiment that for some things, you can find similar performance at a lower cost compared to JL, but that is true of virtually everything in life when you are talking about a quality made popular item.''

2. every manufacturers has had QC issues, and the most prominent for me personally was the earlier subs, i had a few where after a while, the dust separated from the cone. but again, i think for how long they have been and how popualr they are and thus being under the microscope, they have had a remarkable run of fixing any issues that come up.

3. what i love most about JL products is that they seem, almost above all other major manufacturers, to have the INSTALLER in mind when they design their stuff...aside from the W7 and its complicated mounting system (wich isnt all that hard unless you want to mount the sub inverted) everything else about them points to this. battery terminals are just awesome, the multiple configurations on the amps and the fact that they are virtually the only manufacturer that makes integrated GRILLES for their subs are key examples of this.

so in summary, their own popularity is their biggest demerit...we as human beings sometimes can help but want something "unqiue" or "different" to stand out, but we have to realize that it is that inate personalithy trait that causes us to want something else, and NOT a product issue most of the time. 

I will make this statement as perhaps the most important: If i am qualified to carry JL, you can bet that i would indeed have the brand in my arsenal."


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

I think the part people hate the most about JL is the availability. Anybody can get ahold of the gear, thats not a good thing. Even more so the people that dont know JLs true purpose in the car audio world. The "My W6/W7 whomps so hard nothing is louder" crowd.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

DC/Hertz said:


> I think the part people hate the most about JL is the availability. Anybody can get ahold of the gear, thats not a good thing.


What is wrong with that? Availability is what makes them great, they have lines that suit MANY budgets, and they are easy to get ahold of via a dealer network. Who the hell wants to have to source something and then if something happens have to go to hell and back to have it warrantied assuming they will. Ease of access is what has helped make them who they are.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

chefhow said:


> What is wrong with that? Availability is what makes them great, they have lines that suit MANY budgets, and they are easy to get ahold of via a dealer network. Who the hell wants to have to source something and then if something happens have to go to hell and back to have it warrantied assuming they will. Ease of access is what has helped make them who they are.


I think you misunderstood where I was going with that statement. Just look at your local craigslist, you should see my point.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

DC/Hertz said:


> I think you misunderstood where I was going with that statement. Just look at your local craigslist, you should see my point.


The same could be said for Alpine, Kicker, MTX.... and they have all become QUESTIONABLE over the years.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

DC/Hertz said:


> I think the part people hate the most about JL is the availability. Anybody can get ahold of the gear, thats not a good thing. Even more so the people that dont know JLs true purpose in the car audio world. The "My W6/W7 whomps so hard nothing is louder" crowd.


This is far from the Truth. JL requires quite a bit of work and quite a large Initial buy in to be a JL dealer.
I have several friends w/ successful shops with many other brands, who simply cannot afford to bring in JL, even despite customer requests and popularity , bc of the cost of the Initial Buy In Order. Not to mention the monthly/quarterly expectations


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

chefhow said:


> The same could be said for Alpine, Kicker, MTX.... and they have all become QUESTIONABLE over the years.


Along with Fosgate. At least JL still does some stuff in house, even though they just pull it off a crate and stick it together.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Mic10is said:


> This is far from the Truth. JL requires quite a bit of work and quite a large Initial buy in to be a JL dealer.
> I have several friends w/ successful shops with many other brands, who simply cannot afford to bring in JL, even despite customer requests and popularity , bc of the cost of the Initial Buy In Order. Not to mention the monthly/quarterly expectations


Every shop in my area sells JL. We have lots of shops here.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Mic10is said:


> This is far from the Truth. JL requires quite a bit of work and quite a large Initial buy in to be a JL dealer.
> I have several friends w/ successful shops with many other brands, who simply cannot afford to bring in JL, even despite customer requests and popularity , bc of the cost of the Initial Buy In Order. Not to mention the monthly/quarterly expectations


This is how I sometimes got JL products at cost. My local dealer can barely keep up with the minimum so every once in a while I'll get a killer deal while he makes little to nothing. I used to feel bad but it benefits both of us.


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## TransAMrit (Apr 6, 2011)

I've heard a number of JL subwoofer based systems over the years, and while I haven't used them personally, it seems that there's something for everyone out there across the line. Some people have wanted just two cheap subs that would handle a lot of power, while others went with a single mid-power JL that put out very clean bass that's not in your face. I couldn't compare them with very high end stuff (lack of experience), but it does seem that you can't go wrong with them.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

simplicityinsound said:


> yeah JL was around and when i first started out in this hobby, and dual w0s was waht i ran for a long time as my first ever full system. i think a lot of good points has been made above, what i think is:
> 
> 1. becuase of their popularity, it is easy to say dislike them, since every one and their brother and dog wants JL...however, if a product is good, its good, and when my customers ask about JL, being that i don't carry JL, i say this "JL makes a fine product up and down their line, nothing crap, i can offering you similar performance at similar or sometimes lower costs, i think because JL is popular, they can, and rightfully SHOULD charge a lil extra for their products...you get a tried and true product line" so yeah, i do agree with the sentiment that for some things, you can find similar performance at a lower cost compared to JL, but that is true of virtually everything in life when you are talking about a quality made popular item.''
> 
> ...


whole heartedly agree with bing. i own JL products. initially i was hesitant only because of their prices, but as stated in a previous thread i was able to bring the price down at the shop i purchased everything from. 
I tend to have buyer's remorse a lot. i had no remorse after purchasing nearly $2000 worth of JL products. love every bit of the system. 

CC


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

Name another car audio company that doesn't re-hash their entire product line annually. Maybe you can name a couple. But the fact that the original W6 line was available from 1993 to 2002 in unheard of. The W6V2 line was much improved over the original series and lasted from 2002 to 2012 (you can still get these new while they last). I'm certain the W6V3 line will prove to be even better than the W6V2's. Look at the Slash amps original series ran from 2000 to 2007!!! V2 from 2007 to 2012!! Are you kidding me? They don't have to bring out an entire new line every year to get consumers to buy it. Even if they aren't as affordable as some other products.

Why?

It's simple, JL Audio does killer R&D, makes innovations that most of the industry ends up following, and builds killer products. The fact that they employ folks like Manville Smith who will come on here to answer questions personally still blows my mind. I'll always be a huge JL fan!

To the OP:
There's nothing that you're blissfully unaware of. JL absolutely rocks. Critics may have had a bad experience, i.e. equipment failure. I would guess these occurrences are isolated, but it happens with every brand. Or else they don't sell or don't have JL so they criticize.

I'm not saying JL is the end-all-be-all best, but they are undoubtedly amongst the best brands in car audio.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

I've had a set of W3's and a set of W6's, I loved the W3's. Construction wise I have seen some of their components (don't remember which) and I was not too impressed by them. BUT THEN, I have seen "crappy" systems that will blow your mind because they were installed properly. What I am trying to say is that you shouldn't worry about brands too much and worry a lot about getting your stuff installed correctly.


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## michaelkingdom (May 20, 2010)

yes, it is pretty much what I was anticipating. Politics in the car audio industry. I have the 13w7 and from the microsecond that I took it in my hands, I knew it was something special. I have it in a sealed box but it gets loud enough to make me forget where I'm driving to. I love it.


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## bigaudiofanatic (Mar 1, 2009)

I personally think of JL as overpriced as to what you can get brand wise in its place. However their 5 channel amp is nice IMO.


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## Hellhound_06 (Apr 28, 2010)

don't get me wrong, JL is good stuff...if it were about half the price.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

I like Jl amps. I ran an e6450 and a 250/1 for years. Sold them both recently. Bought an Audison lrx 5.1 to replace them. Sold it in a week then bought a Zapco reference 1000.4 and reference 350.2. Took the 350.2 out after another week and bought an e2150, basically a two channel version of the e6450. Have not found an amp that I like better for the highs. I would have liked to have tried something like a 300/4 and 500/1 combo but I am running these for now. I used to run vr series mids and tweets, but that was so long ago I almost can't comment on how they sound because if I was running them now I would be installing them in a different way than I did. I also destroyed a few 10w0's back in the day. They were good little subs for cheap. I've got a 15w0 that I am reconing. So yeah nothing wrong with some Jl despite what the haters will tell you. Only beef is they are a "little" more expensive if you are looking to buy retail, brand new vs other competing products. (really who the **** does that in this economy though? lol)


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## mos805 (Nov 30, 2011)

I think JL products are great after hearing them in a few cars. I have considered using their subs and amps installs, even coming close to getting a 500/1 for my new car until I pulled the trigger on a different amp yesterday. The only thing I don't like is so many people I know see it as an end all to car audio, my friend is wanting to install a stereo in his car and will only run JL subs because his old ones were "loud and clean". Not to say that they are bad but that is another reason I am hesitant to buy them for my setup to show people I know that there are more options out there than just JL and that's it.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

More people hate JL because of the idiots that get their hands on the products then the products themselves. I would post a post from JLs facebook page that would tell the whole story but it got so out of hand it got deleted. Long story short... A idiot with a 13W7 and a 10W7(the 10 is sitting in his back seat, 13 in the trunk) off a 1000/1. This guy really thought he had the end all set up. It was a great read, I wish I could share. He gave every car audio enthusiast a bad name.


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## robert_wrath (Apr 24, 2011)

JL Audio manufactures a great product within it's price range - similar to Sony on TV's. You can't really lose on investing into one of their speakers or amplifiers. It comes down to the actual demo process of elimination. 
My personal favorite sub made by JL is the 8IB4's. I had em installed in my front doors years ago for my first attempt in SQ. Best investment for value.


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

i thought i could outsmart the price vs. quality game and ignore their rep- until the cheaper stuff sounded like crap and i bought my first JL amp- it was like a solid rock that i could depend on for good quality at a price- which BTW most are easily found at a discount. 
then i replaced a cheaper sub with a 12W3v3 and it is all i could want in a subwoofer and is truly SQ in a properly made sealed enclosure. 
i could never buy their component speakers- the tweeters scream head bangin goth metal- absolutely horrid.
and i do think their amps can impart a harsh coloration on occasion and that some amp brand must offer better SQ- but i am tired of buying without a true demo and until i know for certain that i can find a better SQ amp fitting of a higher end price I am staying put.


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## robert_wrath (Apr 24, 2011)

avanti1960 said:


> i thought i could outsmart the price vs. quality game and ignore their rep- until the cheaper stuff sounded like crap and i bought my first JL amp- it was like a solid rock that i could depend on for good quality at a price- which BTW most are easily found at a discount.
> then i replaced a cheaper sub with a 12W3v3 and it is all i could want in a subwoofer and is truly SQ in a properly made sealed enclosure.
> *i could never buy their component speakers- the tweeters scream head bangin goth metal- absolutely horrid.*
> and i do think their amps can impart a harsh coloration on occasion and that some amp brand must offer better SQ- but i am tired of buying without a true demo and until i know for certain that i can find a better SQ amp fitting of a higher end price I am staying put.


Try running them in a Full Active setup. Eliminating the Passive Crossovers & utilizing n Active Processor significantly alters the sound of component speakers.


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## Sound Suggestions (Dec 5, 2010)

I have used countless JL set ups and I have never been disappointed, included but not limited to...

10w0
10w1
10w3
10w3v2
10w6
10w6v2
10w7
12w7
5 1/4 component set (I believe zr)
500/1v1
500/2v2
300/2v2
1000/1v2
...I wonder if I forgot anything, regardless I'd have no problem recommending or purchasing JL again


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## dlemay69 (Feb 8, 2009)

I have owned all sorts of gear - Rockford, PG, Soundstream, etc, and the original JL slash series of amps are by far my favorite (Soundstream is a close second). Like another commenter stated, JL gear takes a beating and keeps going. I have a 300/4 and 500/1 with a pair of 12W6V2s and really couldn't be happier. Zero issues! I Bought the slash amps in 2003 and they are still as strong now as they were when I took them out of their boxes. I've swapped in a bunch of different subwoofer combinations, but I always go back to the JLs. The build quality of the slash series amps reminded me of the build quality of the soundstream reference series. When you pick up one of them, you know its a quality piece, plain and simple.


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## SAM77H (May 19, 2010)

I have used 12w6v1, 12w6v2 (still have it) , 15w6v1 (still have it) and 13w7. 
Might be due to the box but 12w6v1's were my favourites by a long way.
All good quality though.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I do agree with some that there's a certain crowd that's drawn to JL that makes you not want to associate with it but that's not going to stop me from buying an awesome product. I could care less what some stranger is going to think about my brand of subs or amps and I try and hide my equipment anyway.

I also see people buying the W6/7 and using them in an SPL application and then complaining that there are subs out there that will get louder that cost less. They're taking JL's top SQ subs and comparing them to SPL subs and then talking crap about the price vs SPL. The W6/7 subs are a bargain considering they can hold their own against most SPL subs and sound absolutely great while doing so while being utterly reliable. You're getting a lot of sub for the money. Plus, the W7 can effectively displace as much air as a pair of normal subs so that has to be taken into account.


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## jpswanberg (Jan 14, 2009)

I have had w1's, w3 v.2, w.6's, xr comps. and / amps. Great quality and the only personal complaint was the xr tweeter (metal dome). Nothing against the tweeter itself, it just turns out that i can't stand metal domes of any kind for long term lisening. I would not hesitate to use any sub line W3 or above, or any of their /amps. I can't coment on their newer W0 and W1 linesas I haven't used any of them. However, if their new W1 is like their original W1, than it should be able to take considerable abuse while not sounding like s%&t and not blowing up untill after being abused by triple the recommende wattage over 3 years. Bottom line, if you ave the ca$h, i doubt you will be disappointed. Just one caveat: listen to the components and decide if you like the overall sound before buying them (then again, this would go for any component system in my mind).


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

I can't say that I dislike JL but I do find myself talking people out of buying some of their products to save them money. I have several friends that always want JL everything because they're "the best". I honestly have no idea where they got this idea but I'm not the type of friend that is going to let someone spend $2,000 on an all JL setup from a shop when I can make it sound better for half that. Just my .02


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## kmarei (Nov 13, 2009)

I've used their xd line of amps
And a power wedge 10" sub
And now the 13tw5-3 which rocks
Never had issues
They have fantastic customer support
Whenever I'm missing a screw or plug or something
Customer support sends it to me for free
I don't think twice about buying their gear
Yes they are expensive, but if you shop around you can find great deals


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## Renegadesoundwave (Apr 9, 2012)

8w6 is in my all time top 3 subs 

Amps and speakers ? cannot be bothered , there are a lot better out there 

I think people like to be "brand Loyal" to try and make their installs look "team"

I buy the best i can for my budget, a name means little 

I am "free"


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Why does everyone think they are expensive? The XD amps are a great value for the $$$ spent and come with the heritage and build quality of JL. And even better than those are the JX amps. They arent a 1 pony lineup or show, they have product to match just about ANY budget at authorized dealers.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

mires said:


> I can't say that I dislike JL but I do find myself talking people out of buying some of their products to save them money. I have several friends that always want JL everything because they're "the best". I honestly have no idea where they got this idea but I'm not the type of friend that is going to let someone spend $2,000 on an all JL setup from a shop when I can make it sound better for half that. Just my .02


Just curious what brand sounds better for half the price?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> Just curious what brand sounds better for half the price?


come on, you have to admit that JL subs are overpriced. $700 for a 13" sub. plenty of other subs out there for less that sound just as good.

w15gti mkii is only about $300. you cant argue that is not a good sounding sub.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

good products but crazy prices (for me anyways)


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

I wonder why Manville hasnt chimed in on his thoughts about JL? lol

to the guy who say half price competitors.

can you list some examples, retail for retail, what are some half priced competitors to JL products offering equal performance? performance in subs being sq AND output. i think thats a bit of an stretch


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

simplicityinsound said:


> I wonder why Manville hasnt chimed in on his thoughts about JL? lol
> 
> to the guy who say half price competitors.
> 
> can you list some examples, retail for retail, what are some half priced competitors to JL products offering equal performance? performance in subs being sq AND output. i think thats a bit of an stretch


I just listed one


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## extremeways (Oct 14, 2011)

love JL! Sure there are others that are just as good maybe even better. But JL stands the test of time again and again. Not like some of the flavors of the week you see on here and everywhere else. Plus made in the USA!!


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

minbari said:


> I just listed one


Retail on your JBL is $699.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

chefhow said:


> Retail on your JBL is $699.


do they sell for that? no.......they sell for $350-370.... the 13w7 actually sells for $700-800. so what is your point?


dont get me wrong, I like JL audio, always have. but they are overpriced for the performance.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

extremeways said:


> love JL! Sure there are others that are just as good maybe even better. But JL stands the test of time again and again. Not like some of the flavors of the week you see on here and everywhere else. *Plus made in the USA!!*


designed in the USA and made in china, just like everybody else


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

minbari said:


> I just listed one


even if you use the new 13w7D1.5's full retail price of $1200 to compare with the JBL's sub of $700, its not quite half  and if you compare same release time the older w7s, its not even close.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

minbari said:


> do they sell for that? no.......they sell for $350-370.... the 13w7 actually sells for $700-800. so what is your point?


I can buy a 13w6 all day authorized for the same price all day and get the same performance as the MKii


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

minbari said:


> do they sell for that? no.......they sell for $350-370.... the 13w7 actually sells for $700-800. so what is your point?
> 
> 
> dont get me wrong, I like JL audio, always have. but they are overpriced for the performance.



i said retail for retail in my post.

so now you are using the grey/black market depreciation comparison of products vs. JL to make your point?


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## extremeways (Oct 14, 2011)

My JL subs I just ordered specifically say " MADE IN USA" are you telling me they are mislabeled?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

simplicityinsound said:


> even if you use the new 13w7D1.5's full retail price of $1200 to compare with the JBL's sub of $700, its not quite half  and if you compare same release time the older w7s, its not even close.


MSRP means very little and you know it, lol. you have a shop, yes? do you ever sell anything for full MSRP?

my point being that for real world pricing, the JBL is less than half and sounds every bit as good. so, the point stands. There are items that are half the cost and sound just as good.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

in the scheme of things about this thread...have you guys thought about why more exotic brands dont carry the same stigma?

Dyn, Focal, Morel, Macintosh, Brax, etc etc

you can CERTAINLY make a case, almost more easily, that you can have similar products at half the cost with those brands...yet its not a huge common thing about those brands...

again, IMO its JL's popularity that makes people think this way..


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

extremeways said:


> My JL subs I just ordered specifically say " MADE IN USA" are you telling me they are mislabeled?


some of thier stuff is and some isnt. look at the sub itself. not saying there is anything wrong with it. I have worked in manufacturing most of my life. a good, reputable build house can manufacture anything you want to exacting specs, but the fact is that labor is cheaper in china so to keep prices lower, they will use it.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

simplicityinsound said:


> *in the scheme of things about this thread...have you guys thought about why more exotic brands dont carry the same stigma?
> 
> Dyn, Focal, Morel, Macintosh, Brax, etc etc*
> 
> ...


complettely agree! whole heartedly, lol. I wouldnt pay the exotic prices they want either. people assume that if it costs 2X as much as the next competitor it must be better. law of diminishing returns.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

minbari said:


> MSRP means very little and you know it, lol. you have a shop, yes? do you ever sell anything for full MSRP?
> 
> my point being that for real world pricing, the JBL is less than half and sounds every bit as good. so, the point stands. There are items that are half the cost and sound just as good.


thanks for making my point 

becuase i have a shop and i know dealer costs, there is no product that i would sell at half the cost of JL that offers identical or performance. a smaller percentage? perhaps...but half no way...unless for some odd reason i just dont wanna make any money on that brand. 

in other words, if i sold both the jbl and the jl (which i dont), i would sell the jbl at way more than 1/2 the price of the JL. 

i dont try to gain customers by outcheaping everyone and matching online prices.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

minbari said:


> designed in the USA and made in china, just like everybody else


Sure glad you have all the inside scoop on all the JL product lines.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Genxx said:


> Sure glad you have all the inside scoop on all the JL product lines.


prove me wrong then. plenty of JL products with "made in china" on them.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

minbari said:


> complettely agree! whole heartedly, lol. I wouldnt pay the exotic prices they want either. people assume that if it costs 2X as much as the next competitor it must be better. law of diminishing returns.


the same argument can be had in return, because car audio, at least the sq side, is such a subjective thing, you can always argue that some brand offers similar performance for cheaper. especially smaller internet boutique brands that have lower overhead. 

I NEVER assume just because something is more its better, and always use real world experiences to judge, but the issue here is that peoples definition of what 2X BETTER means is a hard thing to grasp.

perhaps amplifiers would be an easier thing to do since its more measureable. so why not name some amps that have similar power output, clarity, efficiency, small foot print, etc as the HD or XD at half the cost?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

minbari said:


> prove me wrong then. plenty of JL products with "made in china" on them.


korea or china? and take a visit to JL's facility in FL


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

simplicityinsound said:


> the same argument can be had in return, because car audio, at least the sq side, is such a subjective thing, you can always argue that some brand offers similar performance for cheaper. especially smaller internet boutique brands that have lower overhead.
> 
> I NEVER assume just because something is more its better, and always use real world experiences to judge, but the issue here is that peoples definition of what 2X BETTER means is a hard thing to grasp.
> 
> perhaps amplifiers would be an easier thing to do since its more measureable. so why not name some amps that have similar power output, clarity, efficiency, small foot print, etc as the HD or XD at half the cost?


I wouldn't make that argument for amplifiers. I would be hard pressed to find one.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

so basically, the entire debate for you is centered around one product, the w7...but one product does not make or break an entire brand. especially a top end product in a given category such as the W7

alot manufacturers have high end products that are well into the thousands of dollars that you can debate whether or not similar sound can be achieved with way less...but we r talking about the brande as a whole here.

seeing that you use ID...which i used to love dearly...i have heard people say similar things to the highest end horns(usually because some dislike the horn sound), the old analog rack mount eqs and xovers. 

and i think if ID had gotten to the same scope and popularity as JL...people would be saying the same thing. like it or not, name, and the effort behind building a name, is worth something in price in this world hehe


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

simplicityinsound said:


> and i think if (enter your current favorite brand here) had gotten to the same scope and popularity as JL...people would be saying the same thing. like it or not, name, and the effort behind building a name, is worth something in price in this world hehe



Fixed and 
/thread 



Sent from my iPhone. Pardon the grammar.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

simplicityinsound said:


> the same argument can be had in return, because car audio, at least the sq side, is such a subjective thing, you can always argue that some brand offers similar performance for cheaper. especially smaller internet boutique brands that have lower overhead.
> 
> I NEVER assume just because something is more its better, and always use real world experiences to judge, but the issue here is that peoples definition of what 2X BETTER means is a hard thing to grasp.
> 
> perhaps amplifiers would be an easier thing to do since its more measureable. so why not name some amps that have similar power output, clarity, efficiency, small foot print, etc as the HD or XD at half the cost?


I'd say the new Phantom PPI amps compare very favorably in those regards, but too early to tell for reliability (as it also is for the XD stuff). For the record, I bought an XD amp myself and will probably get another, but if the PPI stuff was available that I wanted, it's more power in a similar footprint for less money so it would make sense.
One thing I feel I get with JL is peace of mind. Their products, IME, have always been very relaible and well built. Sometimes, thats worth a little added cost.


JL XD400/4
7"x8.5"x2"
75Wx4 / 200Wx2 bridged
$399 MSRP



PPI P900.4
11x6.75x2
145Wx4 / 450Wx2
$350 MSRP

Double the power for a lower price in a slightly larger footprint. The JL's almost always sell closer to MSRP than the PPI/Soundtream variant. I'd expect to pay about $75-100 less for the PPI/SS, whatever the JL is priced at. Sonic Electronics and Woofersetc sell the P900.4 for $230 and $250, respectively, and the JL 400/4 for $329 and $399 for example.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

minbari said:


> prove me wrong then. plenty of JL products with "made in china" on them.


It sounds like the majority of their high end subs are made in Florida. How many subwoofer manufacturers make a single product in the US? From their website:

*"Supporting our engineering efforts is an outstanding group of dedicated production and logistics professionals who make sure that JL Audio's factories around the world, and here in the U.S., maintain our high quality standards. Yes, you read that last part correctly... we build many of our speakers right here in the U.S.A. Since most of our premium loudspeakers incorporate proprietary, patented technologies that require unique assembly techniques, we find that it is best to build them where we can directly control these critical processes. Today, all of our premium subwoofer drivers and all of our marine speakers are built in-house, as are most of our Enclosed Subwoofer Systems and all our Stealthbox® products."*



minbari said:


> come on, you have to admit that JL subs are overpriced. $700 for a 13" sub. plenty of other subs out there for less that sound just as good.
> 
> w15gti mkii is only about $300. you cant argue that is not a good sounding sub.


For starters, the 13W7 displaces significantly more air than the 15gti. SQ is subjective but many will prefer the W7. So there's one objective thing the W7 does better right off the bat and with price being pretty close between the two of them, SQ being "at least" equal, I think that makes the JL a better value. I like them enough that I'm considering an IB project with a pair of 13W7s.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

JL Audio

Miramar, FL. Central North Miami Dade, South Broward. IE Hialeah.


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

Reiterating about JL amplifiers-
They are not perfet with respect to sound quality- I have a class A-B and a class-D, each heve pluses and minuses with respect to overall sound quality. Product quality seems very high IMHO. As does packaging and install compatibility. 

Is there a better amp for sound quality, with less coloration or harshness within ratings, with a similar footprint retailing for:

less cost?
same cost?
1.5X cost?
2X cost?


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

JL *assembles* W3,6, and 7 in the US. I dont think they machine anything here. Not many still do. I think Fi still does though.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

avanti1960 said:


> Reiterating about JL amplifiers-
> They are not perfet with respect to sound quality- I have a class A-B and a class-D, each heve pluses and minuses with respect to overall sound quality. Product quality seems very high IMHO. As does packaging and install compatibility.
> 
> Is there a better amp for sound quality, with less coloration or harshness within ratings, with a similar footprint retailing for:
> ...


Still on that expectation bias train eh? :bash:


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

avanti1960 said:


> Reiterating about JL amplifiers-
> They are not perfet with respect to sound quality- I have a class A-B and a class-D, each heve pluses and minuses with respect to overall sound quality. Product quality seems very high IMHO. As does packaging and install compatibility.
> 
> Is there a better amp for sound quality, with less coloration or harshness within ratings, with a similar footprint retailing for:
> ...


That's your opinion on every class D amp, an opinion that's not shared by many. Let's be fair here.


DC/Hertz said:


> JL *assembles* W3,6, and 7 in the US. I dont think they machine anything here. Not many still do. I think Fi still does though.


 Do you have any factual basis for this? In at least a couple of the pictures in the link above, it shows parts being machined in house. Even if they're made in China but pass QC, what's the problem? After it's proven that the parts are us sourced we'll be hearing about the foreign cars that some JL employees drive. It just goes to show that those that don't like JL will always find a reason not to like them no matter how silly it sounds.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> That's your opinion on every class D amp, an opinion that's not shared by many. Let's be fair here.
> 
> 
> Do you have any factual basis for this? In at least a couple of the pictures in the link above, it shows parts being machined in house. Even if they're made in China but pass QC, what's the problem? After it's proven that the parts are us sourced we'll be hearing about the foreign cars that some JL employees drive. It just goes to show that those that don't like JL will always find a reason not to like them no matter how silly it sounds.


I dont care. I'm just saying


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## Stoph (Jan 14, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Still on that expectation bias train eh? :bash:


:lurk: it would appear that way


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Still on that expectation bias train eh? :bash:


none whatsoever- i mentioned in the post that BOTH classes have SQ limitations- each have + / - in SQ based on my listening.

I'm just asking if there is in fact better sound quality available in another brand of amp (regardless of class) and if so does it cost less, equal, more or double?


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## scion1403 (Feb 22, 2012)

I have been using JL subs for over a decade and i will never use anythign else. they may not be conquering the spl circuit but you will not find a more solid, reliable, better performing sub anywhere. JL audio subs are legendary for a reason! their speakers are highly regarded and their amps are rock solid . IMO they are a no suprises no frills soild lineup.


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## kmarei (Nov 13, 2009)

scion1403 said:


> I have been using JL subs for over a decade and i will never use anythign else. they may not be conquering the spl circuit but you will not find a more solid, reliable, better performing sub anywhere. JL audio subs are legendary for a reason! their speakers are highly regarded and their amps are rock solid . IMO they are a no suprises no frills soild lineup.


Heck
I've even used their cheapes line, the Wx
And it sounded pretty damn good
Ok it can't take like 500 watts
But if you only need 100-250 watts
It was a good solid performer


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## scion1403 (Feb 22, 2012)

agreed personally i have had my 12W6v2 for a few years now and it still amazes me how much of a brutal beating it gives kids with 2 even 3 subs of lesser quality. literally they talk about thousands of watts and multiple subs but my one 12" in an acc port box sounds better and hits harder than most everything ive heard the exceptions.....JLw7's lol. i heard a few SEAS lotus which sounded good and heard a few subs that hit harder BUT hit harder AND sound better... hasnt happened yet. i dont think vomiting or nausea should be a goal in car audio ..maybe for you SPL guys but me i want the girl in the passenger seat to be impressed not ill.


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## Thrill_House (Nov 20, 2008)

I have been running there older entry level amps the A6450 6 channel a/b running my front stage active and the GMAX running my subs for the last 3 years and have had absolutely no issues with them and I even won the IASCA north american championships this year using those amps as well. The best part is I purchased both them amps brand new for less then $500.00 for the pair proving that even the entry level JL stuff is not only a great bargain but sounds and functions great as well.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

there seems to be a pretty good consensus that JL has indeed earned their reputation, and maybe even justified their higher prices (to an extent) 

My question, how are their Speakers? i have been on the hunt for a good set of components for the front to run active. JL's C5 or ZR components. comparable to DLS? Focal? Dyn? similar league? different ball park? I'm very curious.

CC


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## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

vwjmkv said:


> there seems to be a pretty good consensus that JL has indeed earned their reputation, and maybe even justified their higher prices (to an extent)
> 
> My question, how are their Speakers? i have been on the hunt for a good set of components for the front to run active. JL's C5 or ZR components. comparable to DLS? Focal? Dyn? similar league? different ball park? I'm very curious.
> 
> CC


i auditioned heavily and found them in the same "consumer" league as kicker, kenwood and alpine type s/r. in other words not in the same league as a HAT, Focal, etc.


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## KSpan (Mar 9, 2012)

avanti1960 said:


> i auditioned heavily and found them in the same "consumer" league as kicker, kenwood and alpine type s/r. in other words not in the same league as a HAT, Focal, etc.


I would agree with this. IME and IMO their speakers are nice, but sound-wise not on par with the other speakers available at that price point.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

vwjmkv said:


> there seems to be a pretty good consensus that JL has indeed earned their reputation, and maybe even justified their higher prices (to an extent)
> 
> My question, how are their Speakers? i have been on the hunt for a good set of components for the front to run active. JL's C5 or ZR components. comparable to DLS? Focal? Dyn? similar league? different ball park? I'm very curious.
> 
> CC


Ask Mark Eldrige, his car is regarded as one of the best sounding in the world a d he runs C5 comps in his front stage if I remember correctly.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

it would be quite disappointing if jl made "the best" amps and subs but didnt speakers


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

Just read the whole thread...good read.

I have being using my 12W6v2 for many years now. This is my second one, & I've never had any issues with them. It's a nice sounding sub that's very reliable.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

i have read the thread, throughout, JL's subs and Amps have been mentioned, though not so much their speakers. it is somewhat dissappointing that their speakers arent getting as much recognition as subs and amps. from what ive demo in shops the tweeters are a bit bright for my taste. perhaps its the metal dome? 

CC


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## Renegadesoundwave (Apr 9, 2012)

vwjmkv said:


> i have read the thread, throughout, JL's subs and Amps have been mentioned, though not so much their speakers. it is somewhat dissappointing that their speakers arent getting as much recognition as subs and amps. from what ive demo in shops the tweeters are a bit bright for my taste. perhaps its the metal dome?
> 
> CC


I find companies like DLS and CDT etc are far superior speakers $4$


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## Renegadesoundwave (Apr 9, 2012)

vwjmkv said:


> i have read the thread, throughout, JL's subs and Amps have been mentioned, though not so much their speakers. it is somewhat dissappointing that their speakers arent getting as much recognition as subs and amps. from what ive demo in shops the tweeters are a bit bright for my taste. perhaps its the metal dome?
> 
> CC


I find companies like DLS and CDT etc are far superior speakers $4$


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

chefhow said:


> Ask Mark Eldrige, his car is regarded as one of the best sounding in the world a d he runs C5 comps in his front stage if I remember correctly.


To the top, for the knuckleheads that don't let things filter in.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

If you look at the build quality and measurements of their products vs. others...there is nothing that others are offering that is so much better. Remember, speakers tend to sound different from brand to brand so it comes down to personal taste. Just because DLS, Dyn, and, Focal make nice speakers does not mean that everyone likes their sound signatures!

JL's ZR800 8" midbass is a nice driver for example that sounds and measures well. In terms of a door mounted car audio dedicated midbass driver not sure what one would want that would be more suitable. Yes, one can find a driver for less or find one for more but..that does not mean that the JL is not a nice driver.

JL makes solid products but they get a bad rap sometimes because they are so "BIG" and common and comand a price. Don't ever pick a speaker just on rep alone...listen to it first before forming an opinion.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> To the top, for the knuckleheads that don't let things filter in.


Everything in Mark's car is also Off the Shelf , not altered or Modified.

He runs dual C5 mid and Tweets for front stage and I believe a 10w6 for subs up front, plus C5 and Tweeter


the C5 use a silk tweeter which is much smoother sounding than the ZR Tweeter which is aluminum


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

The thing about guys like Mark....yes he gets a check from JL....but he has a long history and reputation in this Industry. Even with money in hand I don't think he would waste time trying to create an ultimate show car that sounds good if the components could not cut it. Give these guys any capable equipment and they will tweak it and tune it and use it as tools to create their masterpiece. 

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

Don't have time to read the whole thread, but will throw in my 2 pesos...

I've had a few JL products over the span of 12 years or so, though limited to their subwoofers and amps (no experience with their other speakers). I've liked all the products I've had. Some were a bit disappointing in performance, but still well made. Their popularity has allowed them to put more money into their development which I think has really improved their current offerings. Whether that expertise and development is done in-house or contracted and same for the mfg, I find their products to be well made, if not higher priced than competitor products (I said competitor, not competitive). My XD amp runs extremely cool even when run for a couple of hours in near 100F heat with little to no air flow (sits under my driver's seat with a floor mat on top of it) driving my front comps and sub. It's not the most powerful, but it's well made, very clean (no noise) and efficient. I have other well made, well performing Class D amps that are not nearly as efficient (one being a Kenwood Excelon...very nice amp, hefty, sounds GREAT, but can get HOT, especially for a Class D...only tested to be about 75% efficient at max output), so I think their development paid off with an excellent combination of power and efficiency.
I don't care the size of the company, how many kids that just want to shake my car with their subs have the brand, where the R&D is done, or where the products are made. If the company offers a product that meets my performance and quality needs at a price point I can accept or justify for the purchase, I like their products (and brand).


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## lovedoc1 (Dec 12, 2009)

I have had a great experience with all of the JL products I have used. I have owned multiple slash series amps, W3s, W6s, and am currently running their BLU rca cables. I think they have great build quality on all of their items. I also think they are overpriced. In my opinion you can get better gear for what you would spend on a JL system.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

DC/Hertz said:


> JL *assembles* W3,6, and 7 in the US. I dont think they machine anything here. Not many still do. I think Fi still does though.


 We say we want Made and engineered In the USA....but not all are willing to pay for it.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

lovedoc1 said:


> I have had a great experience with all of the JL products I have used. I have owned multiple slash series amps, W3s, W6s, and am currently running their BLU rca cables. I think they have great build quality on all of their items. I also think they are overpriced. In my opinion you can get better gear for what you would spend on a JL system.


What can you get that's better than let's say a 13W7 for the money? I don't know of any other SQ sub with the displacement capability along with build quality and reliability. I'm sure there are louder for the money. Possibly better sounding for the money.... maybe. But what other sub combines the same qualities for less? Keep in mind, a single W7 is going to displace as much or more air than a pair of "normal" speakers so that needs to be kept in mind.

For example, a Morel Ultimo 12. It costs just a little less than a 13W7 but the 13W7 offers more than 3x the displacement while arguably sounding just as good. 

The amps all make more than rated power. When was the last time you've seen a post of an XD or HD amp overheating and shutting down? They're super compact especially considering the power output. Very efficient. They offer a good crossover section for those that need it. Very, very low noise floor. They sound good even when driven to the limit. Sure, you can get an amp with more output for the same or less money but again it comes down to what product combines all of the features for less?


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

lovedoc1 said:


> I have had a great experience with all of the JL products I have used. I have owned multiple slash series amps, W3s, W6s, and am currently running their BLU rca cables. I think they have great build quality on all of their items. I also think they are overpriced. In my opinion you can get better gear for what you would spend on a JL system.


If you can get better for less why do you keep buying and not go another route? Obviously you dont think so or you wouldnt keep going back to the well and over spending as you say you continue to do.


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## lovedoc1 (Dec 12, 2009)

chefhow said:


> If you can get better for less why do you keep buying and not go another route? Obviously you dont think so or you wouldnt keep going back to the well and over spending as you say you continue to do.


Now that those cables have come down in price over the years I think they are a great value. Got mine for about $30 each. Way less than they once were. Other than the cables I haven't purchased JL in years. 

As far as the w7 goes my ears, and chest , enjoyed my IDMAX just as much. It also happened to be cheaper when I picked it up. I just know that for my ears I enjoy others that cost less just as much.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

In my truck I have had a set of 8w7's since 04 and never had 1 problem with them, they sound great and I love them, so I bought a set of 13w7's for my chevelle build. I have noticed on another 3 letter forum that open bashing of jl audio is not only allowed but encouraged, but no other manufacturers are permitted to be bashed, even mentioning dc audio over there for shady pricing will get you banned. So I think JL is great but some forums just give them a bad name because they are owned by the competition.


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## Tnutt19 (Dec 22, 2010)

I have owned a lot of different brand subs and heard a ton and am still a fan of JL subs. They are just awesome subs for every day listening use and have insane output while maintaining awesome sq. So far my 13w7 was my favorite sub Ive worked with from a very long list of subs including that mkii sub that in my opinion did not impress me.

I think 99 plus percent who bash the w7 subs either have not heard them installed correctly, wish they were more in their budget, or have never heard them at all. People always naturally defend the brand they are using to be the best or better than what somebody else has. That is what makes reading a forum not a viable source most the time when trying to get information about a product.


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## Pimpnyou204 (Jul 13, 2011)

People always hate on the best products because they cant afford or be sponsored by them. Its been proven they make great gear and other stuff not so much just like EVERY company. I have heard some W models and they all sound good but at the end of the day people like certain sounds and which ever speaker makes that sound for them thats their favorite.


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## bigguy2010 (May 18, 2010)

Ran a 12w6v2 for about a year, also a 1000/1 and 300/4. I don't have any complaints, good reliable gear.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Richv72 said:


> In my truck I have had a set of 8w7's since 04 and never had 1 problem with them, they sound great and I love them, so I bought a set of 13w7's for my chevelle build. I have noticed on another 3 letter forum that open bashing of jl audio is not only allowed but encouraged, but no other manufacturers are permitted to be bashed, even mentioning dc audio over there for shady pricing will get you banned. So I think JL is great but some* forums just give them a bad name because they are owned *by the competition.


Thats only ONE site. And there are a few big names on that site that run JL, they are not D-bags about it so they dont get bashed.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Pimpnyou204 said:


> People always hate on the best products because they cant afford or be sponsored by them. Its been proven they make great gear and other stuff not so much just like EVERY company. I have heard some W models and they all sound good but at the end of the day people like certain sounds and which ever speaker makes that sound for them thats their favorite.


Some of the people that bash JL have more money tied up in cable only then the cost of a W7.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

DC/Hertz said:


> Some of the people that bash JL have more money tied up in cable only then the cost of a W7.


Making them not very smart people.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> Making them not very smart people.


They have a different goal. How does that make them not smart? I already said why JL huggers get bashed, the idiots make them look bad. There are to many out there. People get tired of hearing the stupidity.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

DC/Hertz said:


> They have a different goal. How does that make them not smart? I already said why JL huggers get bashed, the idiots make them look bad. There are to many out there. People get tired of hearing the stupidity.


That goes for every brand. What goal would they be trying to achieve with $1k in cabling? Those are the same people that believe they hear a difference between $20 worth of subwoofer speaker wire and $200 worth of speaker wire. IMO they have no credibility.


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## BEAVER (May 26, 2007)

JL Audio makes great stuff. Poor people like me just cannot afford it, so many of them hate...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 96jimmyslt (Jan 31, 2011)

I consider JL entry level.

My w3 is certainly not high end, with it's stamped basket, but it's defenitely nice and taken lots of abuse (and not the too loud kind, but my dog stepped on it once, DC voltage pushing it in and out, etc, etc)

$600 for the w7 which is 1000w rms is ridiculous though.

Their amps are also priced too high (people still want $300+ for the 500/1)

I don't really know anything other than the w3v3-4 but I'm very satisfied with it.

paid $250 for it several years ago and it's still going strong. Looks nice and clean too


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> That goes for every brand. What goal would they be trying to achieve with $1k in cabling? Those are the same people that believe they hear a difference between $20 worth of subwoofer speaker wire and $200 worth of speaker wire. IMO they have no credibility.


8 runs of 1/0 adds up fast


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

96jimmyslt said:


> I consider JL entry level.
> 
> My w3 is certainly not high end, with it's stamped basket, but it's defenitely nice and taken lots of abuse (and not the too loud kind, but my dog stepped on it once, DC voltage pushing it in and out, etc, etc)
> 
> ...


JL is anything BUT entry level! What they are is a company that offers equipment at a variety of price points. But, every level is well built. In the lower lines, you get the benefit of trickle down tech... big plus!
And the value of any product, is only worth what you will pay for it. Just because your not inclined to spend that much, or exceed your budget, doesn't mean its not worth the expense. 

Many sq champs, of different organizations, use JL amps and products. The w6, and the w7 don't get there reputations from marketing... it comes from years of satisfied customers!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

96jimmyslt said:


> I consider JL entry level.
> 
> My w3 is certainly not high end, with it's stamped basket, but it's defenitely nice and taken lots of abuse (and not the too loud kind, but my dog stepped on it once, DC voltage pushing it in and out, etc, etc)
> 
> ...


JL is entry level now? And you're basing that on the price per watt??? WOW!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

DC/Hertz said:


> 8 runs of 1/0 adds up fast


For the subs? I was talking about speaker wire, not amp wire lol.


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## 96jimmyslt (Jan 31, 2011)

I just think jl is overpriced. And i mean entry level as in good stuff you should get as your first. Best buy/frys stuff being not acceptable.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

96jimmyslt said:


> I just think jl is overpriced. And i mean entry level as in good stuff you should get as your first. Best buy/frys stuff being not acceptable.


Overpriced based on what? The W6/7 and HD amps are some of the best out there for any price.


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

There's no correct first choice of brands for car audio. A lot of brick and mortar shops would go under if it wasn't for the kind of gear Best Buy sells, and as for why you said that level of gear isn't acceptable I can't imagine. Even the cheap stuff can operate for a long time with a proper install and tune and non-abusive use, barring manufacturing defects.


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## extremeways (Oct 14, 2011)

96jimmyslt said:


> I just think jl is overpriced. And i mean entry level as in good stuff you should get as your first. Best buy/frys stuff being not acceptable.


this coming from a guy that buys exclusively from Fry's and Best Buy


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

I give props to JL for at least building the W7 in Florida.

A company of their size and success could easily just outsource 100% of the manufacturing overseas.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

When I first got serious about Car Audio I spoke to a lot of retailers, and JL Audio came up time and time again for a company that 'consistently' produce good performance products. Further comments were that there are good brands out there, but some of the products were hit and miss. You would get a good selection of products, then the next line wasn't so good.

I own/have owned a few JL products, and I haven't had any quibble about performance. What I do have is what I feel are unfair comparisons, unrealistic expectations for any product. As for me, I have no issue recommending JL Audio.

There is always going to be 'something better'. That kind of discussion is a tad benign.

For those who scream, "Overpriced" or "Marketing" ... the first is a POV. However marketing is part of business. It would be a brave or rather stupid business to neglect marketing, especially in this climate. So again, I'm not going to scream at JL, if they've got the initiative to roll out their products where other companies sit, do nothing, and hope that people will notice them. I see no correlation between well marketed products and a bad sounding products!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

GlasSman said:


> I give props to JL for at least building the W7 in Florida.
> 
> A company of their size and success could easily just outsource 100% of the manufacturing overseas.


And the W6, W3, and marine products. I think the upper end comps as well but I'm not positive.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

BuickGN said:


> And the W6, W3, and marine products. I think the upper end comps as well but I'm not positive.


I knew there were a few others like W6 but I wasn't 100% sure.

I think if a company can build the bread and butter subs and speakers in the US and have the amps made overseas it's the perfect compromise....provided all the QC is in place....which in the case of JL ....they get it right.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

I do like this comment...



> Take the JL Audio W7, for instance: A lot of development time has gone into making it the flagship of a company that is already known for their attention to detail when it comes to driver design. Fittingly, the majority of the consumer feedback reflects this, but where does the negative feedback come from? Does it come from the top professionals in the industry, or does it come from kids who look at the big magnet or the excursion videos on YouTube, and decide that the woofer can be used someplace it was never intended to? To this day, for instance, I receive SPL design requests for the entire W7 line from the 8 to the 13.5... And if I'm being paid to make such things work, it's obvious that others are attempting it as well. How much of this can possibly end on a positive note? Well, again, read the reviews. It's all about how you implement a product; my designs are no exception.


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## hpilot2004 (Dec 13, 2011)

michaelkingdom said:


> I've been in this hobby for a few years now and I'm interested to find out about people's perceptions of JL Audio. I've been to a few car audio shops where techs have expressed dislike for JL while others have mercilessly praised them for their quality.
> 
> My system is a patchwork of Hertz / JBL MS8 / Image Dynamics / Infinity / JL. I have the JL 13w7 woofer running off the 1000/1 JL amp and I absolutely love it. That said, I don't know if I'm blissfully unaware of something...?
> 
> Do you like JL products?


Never used any of their products, yet.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

I like JL, and everyone has there own opinion on there product. 
I had JL amps, 10w7, have i ever had a problem with the items, yes but it was my mistake, the gain was a little to high on the mono block 1000/1 black edition  w7 took a dump. 
Other than that, Never had a problem, they would get hot! but they would keep on rocking!
Will I ever go back to JL, I think so, my amps at this moment take way too much room. 
The price of JL amp is high, but so is anything else out there, Zapco, Arc, Mosconi, and so on... 

It all depends on a person, and brand preference, and to take in to consideration of how much money you have to blow on car audio!

That's just my $.02


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## Cooter69 (Dec 18, 2011)

Depends on the sub and amp, some of their products for the money are over priced in certain categories. Other times they have the best bang for the buck!


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## M0dified (May 23, 2012)

I like the JL w6v2 and w7 subs, but the amps are not so good. My old school PPI amps sound so much better than the 1000/1 & 500/1.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Cooter69 said:


> Depends on the sub and amp, some of their products for the money are over priced in certain categories. Other times they have the best bang for the buck!


Could you give any examples of products you feel are good and not so good?


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

captainscarlett said:


> Could you give any examples of products you feel are good and not so good?


Probably not, he's been banned


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

M0dified said:


> I like the JL w6v2 and w7 subs, but the amps are not so good. My old school PPI amps sound so much better than the 1000/1 & 500/1.


I disagree about JL's amps being "not so good". In fact the 500/1 & 1000/1 and all the "Slash series" were designed by the "old school PPI" designer himself, Bruce McMillan. If I am mistaken, somebody please correct me.

Besides, you're comparing Class A/B full-range amps with Class D sub amps. Not an apple-to-apples kind of thing.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

metanium said:


> I disagree about JL's amps being "not so good". In fact the 500/1 & 1000/1 and all the "Slash series" were designed by the "old school PPI" designer himself, Bruce McMillan. If I am mistaken, somebody please correct me.
> 
> Besides, you're comparing Class A/B full-range amps with Class D sub amps. Not an apple-to-apples kind of thing.





M0dified said:


> I like the JL w6v2 and w7 subs, but the amps are not so good. My old school PPI amps sound so much better than the 1000/1 & 500/1.


i agree!, i have the slash series in my car and they sound amazing! be sure to give them a good clean signal and they will give out the best sound I've heard in an amp in this price range. Also the HD series i only have heard one the 750HD and its very nice. compact and powerful, a great combination for a sub amp.

CC


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## JLTw7 (Apr 4, 2012)

I am just amazed why so much "hate" for JL. Being a person who appreciates JL and even other brands....I do find it entertaining.


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## diamondjoequimby (Jun 30, 2009)

If anyone really cares, 

made in China: TR, C2, C3, WX, W0v2, W1v2, all amps

made in Germany: ZR, C5

made in USA: W3v3, W6v2, W7, ZR-800, all Marine speakers, all Stealthboxes


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

I've known some people that choose not to run JL because JL has some customers that just don't know any better. For example, check out what this "Chico" person has to say...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...522&p=10&refid=52&_ft_=fbid.10151808774530523


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

adrenalinejunkie said:


> I've known some people that choose not to run JL because JL has some customers that just don't know any better. For example, check out what this "Chico" person has to say...
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...522&p=10&refid=52&_ft_=fbid.10151808774530523


Your right, but the logic to that evades me. To not use, or purchase any product due to others that use it is a bit ridiculous. 
I won't buy "x" car because "y" owns one, or wear "x" jeans cuz "y"owns/ wears them and he's a tool...

I loved JL subs when I was younger, and was glad to see the company still doing well when I got back into the scene a couple years ago.
Loving my HD's, and the zr800's are monsters! I'd happily run many of their products... no matter what jackwagon was also running them.


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## for2nato (Apr 3, 2012)

I always ran JL subs back before they even made amps. Always had mad respect for the company because they always put out solid products. When the slash amps came out I was already geared up. But after a few years of seeing how many of those amps are blown, I don't really see myself purchasing anything JL for a while at least. Plus I'm an old school guy anyway. I couldnt care less who owns what. So that doesn't sway my purchases in the least.

Sent from your moms bedroom using TapaTalk Pro


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

jcollin76 said:


> *Your right, but the logic to that evades me.* To not use, or purchase any product due to others that use it is a bit ridiculous.
> I won't buy "x" car because "y" owns one, or wear "x" jeans cuz "y"owns/ wears them and he's a tool...
> 
> I loved JL subs when I was younger, and was glad to see the company still doing well when I got back into the scene a couple years ago.
> Loving my HD's, and the zr800's are monsters! I'd happily run many of their products... no matter what jackwagon was also running them.


One thing that worries me is that sometimes performance is sacrificed in order to make a product more durable (ie ignorant user friendly), be it by design limitations or simply to keep the cost at a point for the intended market.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

"Overpriced" is a term thrown around way too often when people fail to see the value in something. Value is subjective. Personally, If I find a good product, that sounds great, holds up to long runs of high volume use, installs easily, has a flexible installation, and flexible tuning capabilities, I find it hard to call that product overpriced. 


JL is an in house engineered product. What I mean by this: They do not simply call a build house in china and order a product with their badge slapped on it. They design the product from the ground up. They are one of the few remaining manufacturers that truly engineers their products. They are the benchmark in car audio that many other manufacturers strive to emulate, but never quite can. 

In the 15+ years i've dealt with their products, i've yet to find one that wasn't developed with sound quality as a #1 priority. They are very hard to compete with at their MAP price points IMO. They provide second to none tech support, second to none dealer service, and warranty even clearly abused products without fail (when they have come from an authorized dealer). 

The problem is, there are so many myths and there is so much propagated misunderstanding in car audio, that they often rise above the rest simply because it's difficult to make their products sound bad, and most of their dealers are fairly knowledgeable. 

Too many people put too much emphasis on brand name, price, and cosmetics, and not enough on technology, tuning capabilities (IE: time alignment, crossover flexibility, proper equalization, speaker placement, and mounting/sound deadening) With the right processing capability, I can make most high quality products sound remarkably similar, to the point that if I didn't tell you what was in the car, you could never guess...


Please support the companies that continue to advance our hobby. IMO those are: JBL, JL Audio, Rockford Fosgate, Alpine, Kenwood, Focal, Morel, and so on. 

Internet companies that engineer absolutely nothing, provide little to no education on their products, have little to no information on proper car audio procedures, and rule's of thumb about setup... these companies do not deserve your business. They are simply here to move a box, and make a profit. They benefit noone in the end, not even the end user that purchased their product because it was "cheaper" or "cooler looking" or "just as good as product A". 

^Rant over.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

t3sn4f2 said:


> One thing that worries me is that sometimes performance is sacrificed in order to make a product more durable (ie ignorant user friendly), be it by design limitations or simply to keep the cost at a point for the intended market.


Well love or hate them, there is a premium price to own the equipment. Some lines they offer are worth it, others not so much. Not sure how that works with the intended market theory. Lol
But, many of us " more experienced" buyers buy used to offset the msrp. Although I know not all do, but I purchase used to bring the cost down to a more reasonable range. Obviously warranty is excluded from this argument.

Is it possible they account for the ignorant users by spec adjustment ( recommended enclosure volume, power ratings, etc) to account for that particular market? As opposed to lowering production quality ...


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## AccordUno (Aug 7, 2009)

My .02 cents. I started in car audio using JL in back around 88-89 time frame, I started out by hanging around the Hialeah Speaker Warehouse store (Adolfo, Frank, etc). first setup involved 2 -15W5, some JL Audio rebranded PPI amps, some non marked 6.5 midbasses. Since then I have used, first component set, 10W0, 10W1, and I have a set of 6W0s that I'm trying to get the surround fixed on them for a project. I can honestly say, the JL is a great company, support is second to none. Just beware of Manville, he's one really cool VP that will go out of his way..


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## mwright (Apr 18, 2012)

jcollin76 said:


> Loving my HD's, and the zr800's are monsters! I'd happily run many of their products... no matter what jackwagon was also running them.


Not steal the thread but have to ask. Where do you have your ZR800's located? I want to put mine in the front doors. 
By the way I'm JL all the way. All my equipment in JL except my HU which is Kenwood. They make awesome products!!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I think "overpriced" and "expensive" are often mistakenly interchanged with one another. Something can be expensive without being overpriced. Some JL products are expensive but I don't think any are overpriced. 

Most of the people who think you can get better bang for the buck are only looking at a single parameter, such as all out SPL. There might be subs out there that are cheaper than a W7 with the same or more output but the W7 is an SQ sub that gets loud. Some look at amps with only dollar per watt in mind.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

mwright said:


> Not steal the thread but have to ask. Where do you have your ZR800's located? I want to put mine in the front doors.
> By the way I'm JL all the way. All my equipment in JL except my HU which is Kenwood. They make awesome products!!


In the stock door location.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Mic10is said:


> Like with many things, when you reach a certain level of Popularity, then anything except that is "better" or cooler, despite how Good it really is.
> 
> JL Audio has been around ALONG time. They have continued to make stellar products for years and continue improving and releasing new and better products.
> 
> ...


I second this. I heard Scott's G35 this weekend and I heard another comp car that had a single 900/5. I saw marks car but didn't get a chance to listen to it. Not sure if he has jl speakers but the amps were prominently on display. It is hard to argue with cars of that caliber using the products. 

Personally I've had a 13tw5 that wasn't too bad. Not a sq sub, but it was nice. I put a 13w2(IIRC) in my daughters car powered by a 250 watt jl amp and it rocks.


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## estione (Jul 24, 2009)

Anyone know why jl have removed there 1200 hd amp from there web site?


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## Mike-G (Dec 25, 2008)

HD1200/1 - Car Audio - Amplifiers - HD - JL Audio

There for me...


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## estione (Jul 24, 2009)

No it ain't


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

I think jl audio does a good job of getting return customers who arent going to switch brands because another brand may be $10 cheaper. Whenever i hear "I can get just as good for a fraction of the price", I think who cares because price isnt one of the major factors involved when i chose to buy it.


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## jon72vega (Feb 14, 2011)

Mike-G said:


> There for me...


x 2

Jon


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## estione (Jul 24, 2009)

Weird i can only see the 750/1 600/4 and 900/5


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## Mike-G (Dec 25, 2008)

estione said:


> Weird i can only see the 750/1 600/4 and 900/5


Because you are looking at the UK version of the site and they must not offer that amp in the UK. At the very bottom of the page you can switch to the US site.


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## estione (Jul 24, 2009)

Mike-G said:


> Because you are looking at the UK version of the site and they must not offer that amp in the UK. At the very bottom of the page you can switch to the US site.



Yep i got it now thank you, strange why the uk dont list the 1200/1


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## tinfoil hat (Jun 14, 2012)

My Slash amps have been installed for almost a decade. Not one hiccup.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

I wonder what they will eventually replace the w7 with?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Richv72 said:


> I wonder what they will eventually replace the w7 with?


The W7v2.:laugh:

I'm surprised it's been around so long with no changes. I think it says a lot for the product that it's still one of the best loud SQ subs after all this time. I still can't get past my urge to do 2 or 3 13W7s IB.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

BuickGN said:


> The W7v2.:laugh:
> 
> I'm surprised it's been around so long with no changes. I think it says a lot for the product that it's still one of the best loud SQ subs after all this time. I still can't get past my urge to do 2 or 3 13W7s IB.


That'd be one HELL of a baffle!


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm about to go back to running HD amplifiers again. IMHO JL Audio pretty much wins the power for a given footprint race.

As for subs, the 13w6v2 was my favorite JL Audio sub. I was kind of bummed to see that it wasn't in the w6v3 lineup, but then again, my current vehicle is pretty much limited to a max size of 10" subs anyway.


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## FartinInTheTub (May 25, 2010)

I've always been a die hard old school guy but When I first ran the 900/5 I was blown away by the power and the SQ from the amp. I sold the 900/5 because I thought I would gain better SQ by installing some high end amps... let's just say I'm going back to HD. I got lucky last week and made a deal on Craigslist for a 600/4 and 750/1 for $550 total! yeh, I know.

I haven't even bought my next car and I've already got the amps I'll be using. The 750/1 will be running the Ultimo SC12 with authority. 150x2 of the 600/4 will be running a Dynaudio passive set in front... The other 150x2 will be running a dedicated set of Dyn midbass. Those of you who haven't used an HD amp check em out! Power/SQ/Footprint on these is pretty much unbeatable.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

fish said:


> That'd be one HELL of a baffle!


It would only have 150lbs of subs hanging off of it lol. I'm very content with what I have right now so I'm taking my time and keeping an eye out for good deals on 13W7s right now. Maybe by this time next year I'll have something. 

Hey Chris B; Grand National, Turbo, Drag Racing.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

BuickGN said:


> Hey Chris B; Grand National, Turbo, Drag Racing.


I see your comment, and raise you the music video it reminds me of every time you make said comment:


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

I'd say that JL is good stuff, but with excellent stuff pricing.

Good SQ, good build quality, but just good and not great. Overpriced.




michaelkingdom said:


> I've been in this hobby for a few years now and I'm interested to find out about people's perceptions of JL Audio. I've been to a few car audio shops where techs have expressed dislike for JL while others have mercilessly praised them for their quality.
> 
> My system is a patchwork of Hertz / JBL MS8 / Image Dynamics / Infinity / JL. I have the JL 13w7 woofer running off the 1000/1 JL amp and I absolutely love it. That said, I don't know if I'm blissfully unaware of something...?
> 
> Do you like JL products?


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

CrossFired said:


> I'd say that JL is good stuff, but with excellent stuff pricing.
> 
> Good SQ, good build quality, but just good and not great. Overpriced.


And just out of curiosity what would you consider to be great at the same price level? 
We all know that street pricing and retail are different so keep that in mind and be realistic and fair, you can't go and compare it to something like an Audison or Focal that is 100's of 1000's more.


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

JL is A LOT like Bose ....sold through superior marketing/technobabble by creating an illusion of quality through high prices and exclusivity. JL is NOT a SQ company. OTOH produces a 'well made' product. Their main speakers are barely listenable. JL amps suck when it comes to SQ ....their subs are a little better than a 'one note wonder' ....but are not as musical as cheaper subs. There are better products at lower prices ....and there are better products at any price. JL is 'mid range' 'mid-fi' stuff. It is great for impressing the ignorant kids in the local parking lot that don't know any better. As I said before ....it is like Bose ...it has great 'name recognition'.



>^..^<


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## Flash_Gti (Dec 8, 2008)

My 2c :

JL has done a fine job of marketing their products. My love for car audio stemmed from hearing a set of 8w0s back in the day. Clean, fast ,accurate to my then novice ears. I can now afford most of what I want in terms of equipment, I still keep JL close to mind when it comes to power and sub bass duties. I don't like the way the HD or XD series sound, I have 6x 300/4s , 4x500/1s,2x 8w7s,2x10w6s, 2x10w3s,1x10w6v1 all in various installs and absolutely music to my ears. They do make some lower end of the market stuff, but, there's a place for it in the market.

I've never a JL product fail on me and I'd like to believe I listen quite hard to my various systems. 
In the end JLFTMFW!


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Catman said:


> JL is A LOT like Bose ....sold through superior marketing/technobabble by creating an illusion of quality through high prices and exclusivity. JL is NOT a SQ company. OTOH produces a 'well made' product. Their main speakers are barely listenable. JL amps suck when it comes to SQ ....their subs are a little better than a 'one note wonder' ....but are not as musical as cheaper subs. There are better products at lower prices ....and there are better products at any price. JL is 'mid range' 'mid-fi' stuff. It is great for impressing the ignorant kids in the local parking lot that don't know any better. As I said before ....it is like Bose ...it has great 'name recognition'.
> 
> 
> 
> >^..^<



Can you explain then why so many of the top SQ cars in almost all the orgs win with their amps and speakers? Are you saying they are winning on name recognition?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Genxx said:


> Can you explain then why so many of the top SQ cars in almost all the orgs win with their amps and speakers? Are you saying they are winning on name recognition?


Don't waste your time with Catman.


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## NightScreams (Jul 7, 2012)

i have several of their products among many other brands over the years. W2,W3,W6,slash,XD,Cleansweep
You can right wing media about them all ya want, but the bottom line is its hard to say much bad things about feature rich products that sound clean and do what it was intended to do. My stuff has lasted years, but i take care of my stuff too.

I found the comparison to Bose odd. *Bose doesn't even sell car audio products to consumers* and their marketing dept's use 2 completely different marketing tactics. I worked in marketing before. What everyone forgets about Bose is that its an American company, made products and their way of doing things is expensive than the China copy competition, but that's a completely different subject.

way to right wing media over a brand bias. I don't give 2 chits about JL as a brand nor Bose or any other. I look only at product models and they either suits me, i have some experience with and like, or they don't and JL has many products that have suited me well over the years. What suits you personally all that really matters, which kinda makes topics like this a bit redundant, but obviously the kids out there want to be in the cool, so they obviously have different approaches to electronics like this, where brands like Sundown are more like the emo group of kids on the block. Fit in wherever its cool for you to fit in.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Catman said:


> JL is A LOT like Bose ....sold through superior marketing/technobabble by creating an illusion of quality through high prices and exclusivity. JL is NOT a SQ company. OTOH produces a 'well made' product. Their main speakers are barely listenable. JL amps suck when it comes to SQ ....their subs are a little better than a 'one note wonder' ....but are not as musical as cheaper subs. There are better products at lower prices ....and there are better products at any price. JL is 'mid range' 'mid-fi' stuff. It is great for impressing the ignorant kids in the local parking lot that don't know any better. As I said before ....it is like Bose ...it has great 'name recognition'.
> 
> 
> 
> >^..^<


What a load of baseless drivel. Would you care to provide some facts to back up your supremely biased opinion? 



t3sn4f2 said:


> Don't waste your time with Catman.


Agreed. I probably shouldn't have either. I've yet to see a post from him with any substance or real information. It's always some mythical fairy dust sq/no-sq discussion that has little merrit in fact or science.


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

I have always admired JL subs. I was running old-school Kicker Solo-Baric when JL-Audio hit my area. Ever since, I have considered them to have the best mass-market subs.

Currently running Slash series amps, and I absolutely adore them.(300/2 x 2 & 500/1)

I do not like their comps up to this point.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Catman said:


> JL is A LOT like Bose ....sold through superior marketing/technobabble by creating an illusion of quality through high prices and exclusivity. JL is NOT a SQ company. OTOH produces a 'well made' product. Their main speakers are barely listenable. JL amps suck when it comes to SQ ....their subs are a little better than a 'one note wonder' ....but are not as musical as cheaper subs. There are better products at lower prices ....and there are better products at any price. JL is 'mid range' 'mid-fi' stuff. It is great for impressing the ignorant kids in the local parking lot that don't know any better. As I said before ....it is like Bose ...it has great 'name recognition'.
> 
> 
> 
> >^..^<


As my experience with head-fi.org shows, ask a Bose basher if they've actually heard Bose products and provide some semblance of proof ... and feel the silence.


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

Since my last post in this thread, I went from a 12W6v2, to a couple 10W6v2's, and finally a 13W6v2. All were in sealed enclosures. Theses are all nice sounding drivers that have a good amount of output as well. I was quite pleased with all of them and look forward to hearing their newer offerings.

There is something to be said for a product that not only does what it's supposed to do very well, but also has longevity.


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## Thrill_House (Nov 20, 2008)

So my JL GMAX monoblock just blew the other day after 3 years of good use  Kind of let down as both amps were working so well up until now. Oh well, guess it time to get those DLS Ultimate amps in that have been sitting in my storage room for a few months now!


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## Juancolchado (Apr 8, 2012)

Didn't Richard Clark give 32KW to a 13W7 before rechaing stress on the suspension?
Can seem to find the graphs no more but he was doing comparision with an adire audio 15" brahma mk1 and a 13W7 and the brahma was 1db louder then the 13W7 up to 1000watts then after that the 13W7 was louder.
the brahma reached its stress level at 20kw and the 13W7 at 32kw. These test were done in sealed boxes with about 1 second of power.


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## Juancolchado (Apr 8, 2012)

Any way I love jl products, mostly the slash series amps for obvious reasons well worth the money and there W7 line is one of there best subs. The bass is always full and louder then any sub in that range. Very enjoyable subs to listen to.


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## snm95ls (Nov 4, 2009)

I have used many JL Audio speakers over the years. I can't say I was ever truly disappointed. I recall that some the old W0 subwoofes had more suspension travel capability that they had tensile lead length. Repaired/modified a couple of those many years ago.

Hell, I still have a set of TR series 6.5s in the doors of my car. They have to be every bit of ten years old now, and still sound great for what they are.


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## bamelanc (Sep 13, 2009)

I've used JL sub and amps for the last 2.5 years. They have worked flawlessly and have exceeded my expectations. I don't know about the component sets. If in the future I have a need for their products I wouldn't hesitate to buy them again.


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

My wife runs a JL 500/5, I don't have any complaints and neither does she.


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

I've only used their subs, 12W3's, but they have been some of my favorites to date. Wish I had to room to try out the W7's, always wanted a pair of those since they came out.


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## DJ Welfare (May 18, 2011)

I have installed in my truck:
JL 300/4v2
JL 250/1v2
JL 10w1v4

Don't have any problems with their products, sub and sub amp sounds fine for the little box my truck can fit, but wouldn't mind on upgrading the 300/4 for a more audiophile grade amp


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## eggyhustles (Sep 18, 2008)

ChrisB said:


> I'm about to go back to running HD amplifiers again. IMHO JL Audio pretty much wins the power for a given footprint race.


Yes! Using 3 for my front stage.

1800w on tap and the amps are tiny!


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## cleansoundz (May 14, 2008)

I used a JL Slash 300/4 & 500/1 for 5 years, then spent 6 years playing with other amps. Lets just say I am back to using a JL Slash 1000/1 and XD 400/4 and couldn't be happier. The 1000/1 is 5 1/2 years too late for me. If I would have bought that years ago, I could have saved myself lots of money. My JL amps have a very low noise flloor and zero engine noise.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

I dont think its marketing that makes them so popular, I think its because they are a solid choice, one less thing to go wrong and never a bad decision. I have never once regretted buying my w7's. They are awesome and unique because they dont look like all the other subwoofers out there.


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## heDrew (Jul 15, 2012)

What do you guys think of the 12w1v2? I'm thinking bout buying 2 of them from Fast1one, putting them in the back of reg cab, silverado, how are they for SQ, if i put them in an enclosed fiberglass box? btw these will be my first subs, in my first vehicle.


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## cleansoundz (May 14, 2008)

You get what you pay for with JL Audio. Play seem to hate on them but not once have I heard from the majority that they make crappy products.


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## htvette (Feb 9, 2010)

I've used 7 300/4, 5 500/1, and 1000/1 slash amps on my cars over the past 10 years. 2 500/1 and a 300/4 died recently. I've had 2 10w1, 6 10w3, 3 12w6 subs. 2 12w6 died recently. I got some ZR comps too. They sound clean and took a beating. Just join the forum and now trying different brands (moving up of course) that are just as good or better for a change.


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## nstaln (Feb 11, 2009)

I have been either an install professional or an enthusiast for about 2 decades and have used/installed just about every mainstream brand and many high quality non-mainstream audio brands. Both sects have good and bad offerings. 

A few things I've noticed about JL products over the years that I like:

-Excellent build quality/production standards
-Outstanding over-all reliability
-Outstanding over-all sound quality
-Model specific engineering(not one-size parts fit different baskets etc.)
-Intelligent marketing; Clean, non-flashy adds, only promises what the products can actually deliver
-Undeniable positive results in competition
-Undeniable positive reviews by both professionals and consumers

I recently bought a new vehicle and it came with an 8-speaker Bose system which sounds VERY good and is amplified so it gets quite loud in it's own right. Being the car-audio geek that I am I was not satisfied with the output of the low end so I added my own sub...A single JL Audio 8W7ae-3 powered by a JL Audio HD750/1. I had many other options within my own collection to use, but this combo just works so well. The 8W7 is powerful but not overbearing. It's very articulate and transitions well into the midbass. 

So I would have to say...Yes I do like my JL Audio products...But then again perhaps I'm just an ignorant victim of clever marketing. :wiseguy:


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## cleansoundz (May 14, 2008)

nstaln said:


> I have been either an install professional or an enthusiast for about 2 decades and have used/installed just about every mainstream brand and many high quality non-mainstream audio brands. Both sects have good and bad offerings.
> 
> A few things I've noticed about JL products over the years that I like:
> 
> ...


I am in complete agreement with you.


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## CENTRAL (Dec 13, 2012)

In December 2012 I made my comeback to the car audio market after a decade or so...

Having a clean sheet instead of a plan, and a rough budget, I started looking for components. 

Needless to say I kept stumbling upon JL as soon as subs/ amps were discussed. 

I read about them, looked for reviews, read several related threads.

Let me tell you, It built up to the point where the image of JL looked like an audio ferry tale in my mind. I felt so great ordering their products and becoming an owner of them.

I still feel good about it, my build is not installed yet, but I am certain it is going to yield the expected results.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

michaelkingdom said:


> I've been in this hobby for a few years now and I'm interested to find out about people's perceptions of JL Audio. I've been to a few car audio shops where techs have expressed dislike for JL while others have mercilessly praised them for their quality.
> 
> My system is a patchwork of Hertz / JBL MS8 / Image Dynamics / Infinity / JL. I have the JL 13w7 woofer running off the 1000/1 JL amp and I absolutely love it. That said, I don't know if I'm blissfully unaware of something...?
> 
> Do you like JL products?


*JL Audio subs are great, not cheap !*


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## hggadm3 (Dec 10, 2012)

Overpriced.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

hggadm3 said:


> Overpriced.
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


My HD's may be overpriced to some, but they're small and powerful when space is a premium.


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## NucFusion (Nov 28, 2010)

Well, I run jl products and always have. Do they cost a little more...yes. are they overpriced? I guess it depends. I deal with a local shop and have never paid true msrp for anything. I feel the prices I get the gear at is more than reasonable.

I don't mind paying a little more for goods made in the usa, good customer support, a local shop to deal with that actually employs knowledgable profesionals in my area, a quality product that will last and a company that invests in innovations that enhance the mobile audio field. I know some people only look at cost/performance of the item and I understand not everyone has an unlimited budget, but to always bash a good product for being overpiced is getting a litte old. It all depends on what each person defines as value.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

hggadm3 said:


> Overpriced.
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


So are Mercedes and BMW... to some. Personally, I think something is only overpriced if it doesn't offer value for it's cost. IMO, JL is not in this catagory...


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

JL has great customer service. Ordered a cable. It came with a big nick in the insulation. Told them about it in some email survey, didn't feel like returning it since it wasn't broken and time is short. Needless to say they called me at work and told me they would ship another, no questions asked, no need to return the old one. Thought that was nice.
Was going to make a thread then I saw this.


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

That is great customer service. It's nice to see that they read the survey as well.


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## Prophecy (Jan 16, 2013)

I've had a few jl products with no problems, but I feel like everyone overrates them


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

The HD amps (and the slash too, I think) will both do rated power at 11 volts. That's pretty amazing in a day when you usually see ratings for 12v and 14.4 volts. That sounds overbuilt to me and I like that. 
I have been soooo tempted to pick up a new PPI p1000.1 and the reviews seem solid but, I keep coming back to JL for a few reasons. Absolutely love those little XD amps. If they would just do a 1000 watt version, all would be well!


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

PPI_GUY said:


> The HD amps (and the slash too, I think) will both do rated power at 11 volts. That's pretty amazing in a day when you usually see ratings for 12v and 14.4 volts. That sounds overbuilt to me and I like that.
> I have been soooo tempted to pick up a new PPI p1000.1 and the reviews seem solid but, I keep coming back to JL for a few reasons. Absolutely love those little XD amps. If they would just do a 1000 watt version, all would be well!



Well, Being that you're PPI_GUY, I'd say that more of PPI's legacy went into JL's amps than the current nameholder of PPI. 


I think that JL has so many "hits", and such a good rep that people feel like they aren't "discovering" that secret underrated audio company that makes good products, but flys under the radar. Some people naturally want to root for the underdog. This is great for sports, but kind of silly for choosing car audio gear. 

The JL fan's here I think realize that JL is one of those rare untainted companies that still makes products with an emphasis on engineering quality and performance over flash/bling/marketing hype. 

In the current days where old school brands are alive in name only, and we have companies that rebrand things they order out of a catalog from a chinese build house, it's amazing to see companies that still exist engineering and producing their own top notch gear. It's even more amazing to see them coming under fire for "being too good". 


Personally, there are only a handful of companies like this. IMO they are JL, Rockford Fosgate, Focal, Kenwood, Alpine, Morel, JBL,Audison... These are the companies that are still currently advancing our hobby of car audio. 


If you want to be negative about a company, how about you pick on one that hasn't engineered a product to this day, and relies on marketing products that they had no hand in creating. These are the companies that IMO are overrated.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

Poor people hate jl audio.


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## 111brandon111 (Nov 13, 2012)

I loved my w6v2 for its sound quality. I likedmy w7 but but i personaly like the idmax better. Jl does make quality products but im more of a spl guy so not my company.


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## so cal eddie (Oct 1, 2008)

In my opinion, obviously, JL Audio has only had a few "misses" compared to all of their "hits".

Misses:
-xr series tweeters were always way too harsh for me. Loved the vr, though.
-of the 30 or so w7 setups that I've heard, they have all sounded too boomy
-the original crossover covers from the mid 90s were terrible, but so were everyone elses
-they only made the w4 series for a few years < My favorite subs of all time. 
-paper cones on the ib4 series warped from heat on the rear deck or got water damaged in doors. <Among my favorite speakers ever, though.

Hits: too many to list. 
I'll mention that their customer service and quality control are easily tops in the industry.


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

I have previously commented on "Overpriced JL" in other threads but what the hell. 

I have used JL products and never had a problem with them. I think they are kind of like a popular band that the cool kids like to bash because they are popular. Are JL products expensive and overpriced? Some are some aren't. The W7 is a world class subwoofer with a world class price tag. Are there better subs out there, probably yes. Cheaper subs with better performance? Maybe. But only someone without any objectivity would not put the W7 in the discussion of great subs at any price. 

But I never see the vitriol directed towards other manufacturers obviously over priced products. Why the double standard? 

Some examples of approximate retail pricing of products from manufacturers which are revered and not subject to the same scrutiny as JL. 
Focal BE No 7 $5600
Morel Supremo 6 2W $3300
Brax X 2400.2 $2500
Mcintosh Mcc302 $1300
Dynaudio Esotar 6.5 (mids only) pair $1000
Hybrid Audio Technologies Legatia L8SE $989 (well Hat takes a lot of flack also, some probably deserved, some not)
Arc Audio Black Series (at least people caught on they appear to be re-branded SBAcoustics sold at more than twice the price)
Sinfoni & Mosconi amps re-fricking-diculous prices. But they are Italian so obviously they are not over priced


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Well, Being that you're PPI_GUY, I'd say that more of PPI's legacy went into JL's amps than the current nameholder of PPI.


That's one of the reasons I was referring to. 
I just didn't want to sound like I was bashing the modern incarnation of PPI as I honestly believe them to be quality products. 

Also, someone compared JL to the popular band all the cool kids like to bash.
I'm good with that as long as JL doesn't = Nickelback. 
That band makes me physically ill.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

jimbno1 said:


> I have previously commented on "Overpriced JL" in other threads but what the hell.
> 
> I have used JL products and never had a problem with them. I think they are kind of like a popular band that the cool kids like to bash because they are popular. Are JL products expensive and overpriced? Some are some aren't. The W7 is a world class subwoofer with a world class price tag. Are there better subs out there, probably yes. Cheaper subs with better performance? Maybe. But only someone without any objectivity would not put the W7 in the discussion of great subs at any price.
> 
> ...


This bears repeating. I couldn't agree more. 

Anyone that says the W7 is boomy has obviously never heard one in the proper setup/enclosure. They get a bad rep due to the number of SPL guys that sacrifice response for one note bass...


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

jimbno1 said:


> Are JL products expensive and overpriced? Some are some aren't. The W7 is a world class subwoofer with a world class price tag. Are there better subs out there, probably yes. Cheaper subs with better performance? Maybe. But only someone without any objectivity would not put the W7 in the discussion of great subs at any price.
> 
> But I never see the vitriol directed towards other manufacturers obviously over priced products. Why the double standard?
> 
> ...


Any debate on the subject of JL being "overpriced" just ended with this post. The hypocrisy is pretty damning. 
Well said, sir.


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

jimbno1 said:


> I have previously commented on "Overpriced JL" in other threads but what the hell.
> 
> I have used JL products and never had a problem with them. I think they are kind of like a popular band that the cool kids like to bash because they are popular. Are JL products expensive and overpriced? Some are some aren't. The W7 is a world class subwoofer with a world class price tag. Are there better subs out there, probably yes. Cheaper subs with better performance? Maybe. But only someone without any objectivity would not put the W7 in the discussion of great subs at any price.
> 
> ...



I've said something similar in the past. Response I got was, "it's main stream." IMO What gives, if it's good, it's good.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

So what if it's main stream? Given a chance everyone else would LOVE to be in a similar situation...many have tried and most have failed. Hertz and Audison have tried to break into the US market for how many years, coming and going before they finally got a foot hold this time around.

To me it's better they are "main stream." I get world class performance at a dealer that is closer than 300 miles each way (or more if there isn't one in the state), and I get a warranty that I know that if I had problems will be taken care of...promptly and in this country.


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## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for all the interesting and kind comments, guys. We love designing, building and selling great audio products for enthusiasts to enjoy.


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

So where are you in the pic?


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## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

jimbno1 said:


> So where are you in the pic?


On the far right about 4th row, wearing a black t-shirt with "JL AUDIO" on the front... the handsome one.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I agree with all the W7 comments.....One hit wonder?????REALLY???? It gets the boomy because of the user. The greatest asset to that sub somehow became its downfall. It can put a hurting on a LOT of freq ranges and tote some power all the while. So why not put it in an spl enclosure and let it do its thing? BOOM. At the same time you can get that WHOA effect in the proper enclosure along a very large freq range....isnt that the goal for a lot of people? Hmmm....no wonder why its "mainstream" it can fit most anyones needs (except financial/physical). Its a HUGE win. Why hasnt it changed since its inception? Dont need to 

Ok, mainstream.....God I hate that! To me thats up there with music. I have a lot of friends in bands. Some popular some not. Both have/had big followings in some regard either way. Somehow the one that got the bigger deal was a sell out? Really, getting the chance to do what you love for a living and to send your craft to a larger audience (isnt it about the music...man?) makes them the *******? Dont get it? Ignorance at its finest. JL = exact same thing! Be happy for them. They had a humble beginning and that mentality has never once left them. That is very rare if even comparable to anyone else out there! 

To answer the jl $ vs mcintosh, brax, etc....... All the others are not at every street corner....there niche companies, there supposed to bend you over a barrel and your supposed to LOVE IT!  and thats fine. 

HD amps? AWESOME! IMO absolute best class d you can spend your $ on. XD to me is = to ppi phantoms in most aspects. Nothing wrong with that imo! 

I dont think your going to waste money on anything JL. Your always going to get "something" equal or greater to your dollar. Its simple. The exude excellence as a company and there products are extensions of that. 

Just adding my two cents with ya'll


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

See the really tall dude on the right in the black shirt?





jimbno1 said:


> So where are you in the pic?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

msmith said:


> Thanks for all the interesting and kind comments, guys. We love designing, building and selling great audio products for enthusiasts to enjoy.


Hialeah/Miramar/Ft. Lauderdale (and others) FTW!


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

JL is pricey, there is better out there for the price point (my general opinion). 

From what I have discussed with others, some products are hit or miss.
I will be installing some jl slash v'1s this weekend found them used and they fit my application well.

I have heard mixed things about their 4 channel amps.


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> So what if it's main stream? Given a chance everyone else would LOVE to be in a similar situation...many have tried and most have failed. Hertz and Audison have tried to break into the US market for how many years, coming and going before they finally got a foot hold this time around.
> 
> To me it's better they are "main stream." I get world class performance at a dealer that is closer than 300 miles each way (or more if there isn't one in the state), and I get a warranty that I know that if I had problems will be taken care of...promptly and in this country.



Exactly!



msmith said:


> Thanks for all the interesting and kind comments, guys. We love designing, building and selling great audio products for enthusiasts to enjoy.


It's cool to see people like you to chime in on threads like these or others that need clearification and help. Makes the company go a long way! gracias


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

WestCo said:


> JL is pricey, there is better out there for the price point (my general opinion).
> 
> From what I have discussed with others, some products are hit or miss.
> I will be installing some jl slash v'1s this weekend found them used and they fit my application well.
> ...


Name them (better for the price), and what's different about their 4 channels vs. monoblocks? (aside from the number of channels?) 

Always the argument... some very vague notion of something better for the price. IMO, there's a reason almost every superwoofer compares itself to the W7.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Name them (better for the price), and what's different about their 4 channels vs. monoblocks? (aside from the number of channels?)
> 
> Always the argument... some very vague notion of something better for the price. IMO, there's a reason almost every superwoofer compares itself to the W7.


Zed
Mmats
Zuki (maybe a little higher than jl) but well worth the money.

I my comments were more directed at their amplifiers. Their woofer is a solid piece.

Some of their 4 channels had issues with level's etc. Their mono amps appear to pretty rock solid all around, reliable, and have a fairly flat responce.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Richv72 said:


> Poor people hate jl audio.




It is this sort of silly banter (I hope & give credit to what that is) that gives any brand and/or loyalty a disservice. I respect a lot of brands but I ride no one's jock. I simply target what suits my configuration, is a known performer, and is within my budget during the moment of system planning.


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## evangojason (Feb 12, 2010)

When I was in high school the kids who didn't know anything about car audio, wanted to be LOUD, and could afford it bought 3 W6's and a SS REF1000. (I had 2 12W6's and Orion 2150) They always had cheap or stock speakers running off the deck and couldn't tell you how the sub's were wired. But they sure said JL AUDIO and 1000 WATTS a lot. It's not that there was anything wrong with the equipment, it was just a go to proven system for people who weren't into car audio like the rest of us and didn't know what they were talking about. These were the same people saying JL was the best in car audio period and everything else was a waste of money. I think it's those people that made JL Audio the "love to hate" company in car audio. They made a good product and advertised so well that even people who knew nothing about car audio knew JL and knew that it was good. Unfortunately when the people talking about a product don't know the basics of car audio it could look bad on the gear.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

WestCo said:


> Zed
> Mmats
> Zuki (maybe a little higher than jl) but well worth the money.
> 
> ...



Maybe I should have specified that i'd like examples of how they're "better" or even the same.

I mean you have Zed who makes great amps, but they're far from compact. Mmats who for all I can tell fell off the face of the earth, they haven't been relevant in years. Zuki, seriously? A company that won't even provide you an acurate power spec? 

What makes any of these a better choice, short of being "in with the cool kids"?


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

To be fair, I don't compete anymore (looooong ago) but, I think I heard about some Mmats stuff showing up in winning installs recently. Now, I am assuming they were SQ systems and not SPL. But, who knows?
Their (Mmats) website is truly unimpressive.
Think of it this way...what other companies products hold their value as well as JL? I'm talking about comparably priced stuff. Not exotic, hand built, boutique products.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Maybe I should have specified that i'd like examples of how they're "better" or even the same.
> 
> I mean you have Zed who makes great amps, but they're far from compact. Mmats who for all I can tell fell off the face of the earth, they haven't been relevant in years. Zuki, seriously? A company that won't even provide you an acurate power spec?
> 
> What makes any of these a better choice, short of being "in with the cool kids"?


I'll agree with the zuki comment 100%. The lack of accurate power output is annoying. But the performance is there and you cannot argue with results.

My amps (aside from my slashe's which are beat to heck and back) are displayed on amp racks when you 1st open the trunk. I have no problems with somewhat large amps, in fact it is the absolute last thing I care about when I "go shopping."

These are all brands which I have run and enjoyed. I demoed a JL hd 2 channel, it was a nice piece. I would rather have a Zed leviathan though for the money with SQ that is on point with it. Ok maybe the JL hd did a small bit better in all fairness.

I did some research when I was selecting a 4 channel for my first build two years ago. I looked at the reviews for the jl 4 channels and the people on the forums all complained about some of the levels being off. I ended up going with an Alpine (a huge mistake). 

It's all a learning experience. I will post back after I get these slashes installed.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

WestCo said:


> I demoed a JL hd 2 channel, it was a nice piece. I would rather have a Zed leviathan though for the money with SQ that is on point with it. Ok maybe the JL hd did a small bit better in all fairness.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


>


Erin....please dont bother!!!! Save yourself! 
He already questioned your testing of the deck testings you did.....thinks you hooked up the mda5000 wrong.....yeah, you read that right!

LOL!!!!!!


----------



## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

WestCo said:


> I'll agree with the zuki comment 100%. The lack of accurate power output is annoying. But the performance is there and you cannot argue with results.


What results? I've yet to see a double blind test where Zuki was compared with anything else. All I see are purchasers of the amps beating their chests about what a great choice they made using more intangibles for proof. 

This is a company that provides 0 information about the true output of their amplifiers. This is typically the only spec that most should care about. 

Zuki's amps are huge, and for no good reason other than maybe to justify the huge cost. 

If i'm paying $$$ for an amp, it better be for a better tool set on the amp (crossovers and such), a more compact amp that makes the same power, or superior technology for real world use R.I.P.S. 

Not seeing how Zuki is "better" for the price. If nothing else, they're far worse for the price. 




WestCo said:


> My amps (aside from my slashe's which are beat to heck and back) are displayed on amp racks when you 1st open the trunk. I have no problems with somewhat large amps, in fact it is the absolute last thing I care about when I "go shopping."


Seems odd. Personally, if all else is equal, i'll choose the smaller amp. Flexibility in future use, weight savings in a loaded down vehicle, space savings in todays cramped interiors/trunks. I see no reason not to consider size when purchasing an amp. At least it's a tangible difference...



WestCo said:


> These are all brands which I have run and enjoyed. I demoed a JL hd 2 channel, it was a nice piece. I would rather have a Zed leviathan though for the money with SQ that is on point with it. Ok maybe the JL hd did a small bit better in all fairness.


What HD 2 channel? TMK, they've never made one. The leviathan is a 6ch, so how are we comaring apples to apples. Zed makes great amps, but again, far from compact, and i'm not seeing something "better" for the money, maybe the same for the money?



WestCo said:


> I did some research when I was selecting a 4 channel for my first build two years ago. I looked at the reviews for the jl 4 channels and the people on the forums all complained about some of the levels being off. I ended up going with an Alpine (a huge mistake).


What levels? Gain levels? Output levels? Wattage levels?



WestCo said:


> It's all a learning experience. I will post back after I get these slashes installed.


Please do. I'd like to hear a real world comparison that isn't as vague as "there are better for the price".


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Damn WRX you beat me to the 2 channel HD thing! 
Its another "sounds better" discussion.....he has a few of them going right now....I'm kinda sick of it so I'll bow out of this one.........Good luck to you all!

(to be fair, I dont think size is a valid discussion if he doesnt care about it?) Everything else? Spot on!


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

rexroadj said:


> Damn WRX you beat me to the 2 channel HD thing!
> Its another "sounds better" discussion.....he has a few of them going right now....I'm kinda sick of it so I'll bow out of this one.........Good luck to you all!
> 
> (to be fair, I dont think size is a valid discussion if he doesnt care about it?) Everything else? Spot on!


True, but it is a benefit whether he admits it or not. Otherwise, we'd all have to drive Suburbans to haul all our gear... we'd all have bag phones to carry around... we'd all still be buying huge tube tv's instead of flat panels. 

I'm not even going to debate sounds better w/ amps. It's stupid and pointless, and based in fairy tale land instead of scientific fact.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

There was a time when huge amps (surfboards) ruled the earth but, those days are over. I owned several of them myself...big class a/b power was the standard back in the day. But, thankfully huge advances in class D have allowed us to move on. Big, clean power from a small footprint is where it's at these days and will be even more so in the future. 

Unless you only do spl and have already hacked up your ride for that purpose, size DOES matter to you. As vehicles become smaller to meet MPG standards, cargo space will continue to be a premium requirement for those that need and use it. Now, thanks to compact amplifier and subwoofer designs we can have great sound and still fill the trunk/hatch with work equip, groceries, pet carriers, golf clubs, etc.

Now, I don't have a problem with some of the brands mentioned as competitors for JL Audio. They probably make excellent stuff. But, there are other factors that create brand loyalty including customer care and service. Maybe these smaller companies do it just as well as JL, I don't know. But, when a company goes above and beyond "good" customer service to set themselves apart from the rest, that resonates with people. 
And what about longevity and staying power? Obviously JL is doing something right. They've been around for quite some time and their marketshare seems to be growing. That reflects a good business plan and tells me they intend to be around 10 years from now. 
So, to sum up...JL makes innovative, quality products, sells them at a fair price, backs them up with great customer service and has become a well recognized brand. 
Am I missing something?


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

rexroadj said:


> Damn WRX you beat me to the 2 channel HD thing!
> Its another "sounds better" discussion.....he has a few of them going right now....I'm kinda sick of it so I'll bow out of this one.........Good luck to you all!
> 
> (to be fair, I dont think size is a valid discussion if he doesnt care about it?) Everything else? Spot on!


Sounds like someone who has a lot of experience with JL equipment and is sharing a small piece of his wealth of knowledge on it with us.
(only the one example that borders on a actual example instead of just vaguery is an example of an amp that never even existed.



ps I have a 300/4 I bought new back in 2000, 13 years later its still going strong and sounds good


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Damn thank you button! I hit one in spirit for ya PPIGUY 

I appreciate the size change over the years...I was just saying if someone has room, doesnt care, then using the size of an amp as a quality was a mute point for them.....Not that it doesnt equal "better" for all the reasons that WRX said..... You cant argue the opposite....I guess I was just trying to be diplomatic? Stupid me....I'm never good at it either 

You can hate JL......You just probably cant come up with a viable reason for it?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

PPI_GUY said:


> There was a time when huge amps (surfboards) ruled the earth but, those days are over. I owned several of them myself...big class a/b power was the standard back in the day. But, thankfully huge advances in class D have allowed us to move on. Big, clean power from a small footprint is where it's at these days and will be even more so in the future.
> 
> Unless you only do spl and have already hacked up your ride for that purpose, size DOES matter to you. As vehicles become smaller to meet MPG standards, cargo space will continue to be a premium requirement for those that need and use it. Now, thanks to compact amplifier and subwoofer designs we can have great sound and still fill the trunk/hatch with work equip, groceries, pet carriers, golf clubs, etc.
> 
> ...


Of course you're missing something! Regardless of how much anyone tries to proves anything about any piece of equipment or brand, there will still be forum boners, there will still be those who relate the higest cost to definite quality, there will still be fanboys of damn near every brand, there will still be....  


I respect a lot of brands, but a lot in this thread just seems senseless & angry which doesn't really help much in either side. Basically it damn near states to give up all of your gear regardless of investment or taste and go JL JL JL JL JL JL JL JL JL JL.... all other brands should be destroyed and their creators as well! If you're caught with anything besides JL you should be shot down & molested on the spot! 

Seriously though, JL has a lot to be proud of, they will always have their following, but they don't need audio mercenaries to prove that point for them. :laugh: I actually am eyeing a couple of pieces of JL for my next project, but it is not the end all and be all.


In the famous words of Rodney King just before receiving that big check and firing up some more butter rock... "C-c-c-can't we all just get along?!"


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

Bayboy;1800420
I respect a lot of brands said:


> There is absolutely no one in this thread saying any of that.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I can appreciate your statements a great deal bayboy!
I cant say anything bad about JL....but I'm not a flag runner. I cant stand those that all but have a JL tattoo claiming its the start and end of audio...... Its what starts threads like this imo....(well that and those saying jl sucks just as the other fanatics)

I do not run any jl equipment at the moment....would I? YES...just may not fit my budget for a while. I like knowing what I'm getting for my money....JL, JBL, and others...I always know and never flinch when I pull out my wallet. Thats whats nice about them imo.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

jp88 said:


> There is absolutely no one in this thread saying any of that.




Read a bit deeper into my reply and you will get the gist before defending a single picked out & semi-twisted paragraph aimed towards sarcasm.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> I can appreciate your statements a great deal bayboy!
> I cant say anything bad about JL....but I'm not a flag runner. I cant stand those that all but have a JL tattoo claiming its the start and end of audio...... Its what starts threads like this imo....(well that and those saying jl sucks just as the other fanatics)
> 
> I do not run any jl equipment at the moment....would I? YES...just may not fit my budget for a while. I like knowing what I'm getting for my money....JL, JBL, and others...I always know and never flinch when I pull out my wallet. Thats whats nice about them imo.




Exactly! Couldn't have said it any better! I've seen a lot of good brands come & go through the years. A lot of mergers, takeovers, demises, etc... yes a few remain, but in the end the consumer isn't left with much to choose from. JL has great gear & is an excellent company. No one should deny that, but it is not only a matter of budget, it is a matter of not every brand is going to be able to cover every configuration for everybody. That's plain & simple! More than often when you are at the playing level that most DIY are (especially here), you pick the gear that gives the features you NEED as well as best quality that your budget ALLOWS! Those two factors alone do not always allow one to show brand loyalty.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Bayboy said:


> Exactly! Couldn't have said it any better! I've seen a lot of good brands come & go through the years. A lot of mergers, takeovers, demises, etc... yes a few remain, but in the end the consumer isn't left with much to choose from. JL has great gear & is an excellent company. No one should deny that, but it is not only a matter of budget, it is a matter of not every brand is going to be able to cover every configuration for everybody. That's plain & simple! More than often when you are at the playing level that most DIY are (especially here), you pick the gear that gives the features you NEED as well as best quality that your budget ALLOWS! Those two factors alone do not always allow one to show brand loyalty.


Exactly! And what sad is that should just be logic...but as you mentioned about the mercenaries (that goes for both extremes).....it creates things like this. Under normal situations JL would fit my budget and requirements for size/power (amp) and maybe sub.... I love a lot of brands.........A lot of brands make great ****! A lot of brands fit the bill for a lot of things/places.....in my opinion that makes them all great. Obviously things like availability and customer service/warranty certainly adds to it. Thats why I feel like you really just cant knock JL....but I could add several company's to that list. I just hate the hate and or love just for the sake of it...........Ignorance.......
I'm taking this off topic I think (is that even possible with stuff like this?) so I'll take a back seat and read more


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> Exactly! And what sad is that should just be logic...but as you mentioned about the mercenaries (that goes for both extremes).....it creates things like this. Under normal situations JL would fit my budget and requirements for size/power (amp) and maybe sub.... I love a lot of brands.........A lot of brands make great ****! A lot of brands fit the bill for a lot of things/places.....in my opinion that makes them all great. Obviously things like availability and customer service/warranty certainly adds to it. Thats why I feel like you really just cant knock JL....but I could add several company's to that list. I just hate the hate and or love just for the sake of it...........Ignorance.......
> I'm taking this off topic I think (is that even possible with stuff like this?) so I'll take a back seat and read more


:laugh: Definitely not off-topic! It's spot on. Quite a few brands that I trust just as well, and I dare not place any single one over the other. Who gets my dollars is who suits my next project best. With that said... all of you angry people send me your gear right now and I will sort out who has the best ****! Once I determine that, you will be allowed to buy some more **** so you can prove that it is consistent!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Bayboy said:


> :laugh: Definitely not off-topic! It's spot on. Quite a few brands that I trust just as well, and I dare not place any single one over the other. Who gets my dollars is who suits my next project best. With that said... all of you angry people send me your gear right now and I will sort out who has the best ****! Once I determine that, you will be allowed to buy some more **** so you can prove that it is consistent!


and this is the only time I have and ever will say this......(truth!).....I'll take the sloppy seconds to try


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

Bayboy said:


> Read a bit deeper into my reply and you will get the gist before defending a single picked out & semi-twisted paragraph aimed towards sarcasm.


Sorry my interw3bz sarcasm detecting device is apparently on the fritz today


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

jp88 said:


> Sorry my interw3bz sarcasm detecting device is apparently on the fritz today



Hey man it's all cool dude. I'm just an aging man reminiscing of the glory days when lots of brands had their share of the pie and was good at doing it. With that being said how about you send me your amps so I can give them a trial??? *plus we will forgive you for your part in any of the shenanigans*


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

I think the only thing that limits jl audio is they dont have an 18w7 and an amp that does more then 1200 watts rms. If they came out with an 18w7 and a 3k amp, all the spl people would be scurred.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Bayboy said:


> Of course you're missing something! Regardless of how much anyone tries to proves anything about any piece of equipment or brand, there will still be forum boners, there will still be those who relate the higest cost to definite quality, there will still be fanboys of damn near every brand, there will still be....
> 
> 
> I respect a lot of brands, but a lot in this thread just seems senseless & angry which doesn't really help much in either side. Basically it damn near states to give up all of your gear regardless of investment or taste and go JL JL JL JL JL JL JL JL JL JL.... all other brands should be destroyed and their creators as well! If you're caught with anything besides JL you should be shot down & molested on the spot!
> ...


I'm not taking anything away from "forum boners" or even smaller brands. The point I was trying to make is that JL gets ALOT of grief they do not deserve. They're heavily invested in R&D from all acounts and the pricing of their products reflect that. So does their performance.
Basically, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to like JL Audio and only a couple of subjective reasons to not. And after all this IS a thread about JL Audio.

Hey, I don't even own any JL stuff at the moment but, will probably pick up something soon, as I am always playing with equipment. Right now I am running old PPI amps and 356CS comps, IDQv1D4 10" subs and an old Pioneer 1.5 DIN headunit. BUT, I have run JL XD amps in the past and love them! Tiny footprint and easy, easy, easy on electrical. I think they would work nicely with a Clarion CZ702.
I guess if that makes me a "fanboy", I'll have to step up and own it.


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

I :heart: my 18" W6.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

PPI_GUY said:


> I'm not taking anything away from "forum boners" or even smaller brands. The point I was trying to make is that JL gets ALOT of grief they do not deserve. They're heavily invested in R&D from all acounts and the pricing of their products reflect that. So does their performance.
> Basically, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to like JL Audio and only a couple of subjective reasons to not. And after all this IS a thread about JL Audio.
> 
> Hey, I don't even own any JL stuff at the moment but, will probably pick up something soon, as I am always playing with equipment. Right now I am running old PPI amps and 356CS comps, IDQv1D4 10" subs and an old Pioneer 1.5 DIN headunit. BUT, I have run JL XD amps in the past and love them! Tiny footprint and easy, easy, easy on electrical. I think they would work nicely with a Clarion CZ702.
> I guess if that makes me a "fanboy", I'll have to step up and own it.



I think you may have misunderstood what I was representing. I take nothing away from JL. It is great gear that justifies cost just like there's other gear that is likewise, but perhaps in a different tier. My point was regardless of what brand this thread is about, there will always be nay-sayers & fanboys (none of which were pointed at you). The problem exists when the lack of tact starts to cloud the true issues. Other than that it was an interesting read into some user's testimonies.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Bayboy, I wasn't taking any offense with anything you said and hope you didn't think I was being defensive with you. We're good.
The words "JL" and "fanboy" are too easily(and often) associated with each other and _always_ by those who have some kind of hangup with JL. Usually followed by "I know lots of brands that are better and cheaper!" 
That is where I lose patience with people.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Good thing I have my own opinions and don't need to explain myself to any of you guys 
But I will because some of you question my reasoning at every turn.

You think I am some noob, but sorry I am not.

I would rather have 6 channels with clean power then 2 channels with a slighlty flatter responce. I can question whatever I want and it doesn't matter what one or two of you say... I am still here and plan to be for quite some time.

Deal with it.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

WestCo said:


> Good thing I have my own opinions and don't need to explain myself to any of you guys
> But I will because some of you question my reasoning at every turn.
> 
> You think I am some noob, but sorry I am not.
> ...


And we will deal with it and your outlandish comments....oh sorry, "opinions" which have no factual basis, or none you can seem to explain except for "because I said so" Now, I dont want to be rude.....whats that called again? 

How bout them 2 channel HD's! WAY flatter response and cleaner then any amp made yet! Oh wait....they were never made????? (unfortunately

Seriously bud.......do you have an A game? Is this how your going to approach everything on here? You may say your staying but at this rate? You may not have a choice in the matter


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## Sound Suggestions (Dec 5, 2010)

:snacks:


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

WRX/Z28 said:


> What results? I've yet to see a double blind test where Zuki was compared with anything else. All I see are purchasers of the amps beating their chests about what a great choice they made using more intangibles for proof.
> 
> This is a company that provides 0 information about the true output of their amplifiers. This is typically the only spec that most should care about.
> 
> ...


The jl's slashes are ok.
I like the extra power, I didn't like having to add two kintetics batteries in the trunk. I still have some tuning to do on the bass eq levels on my ps8. But they are ok. I don't see anything that would immediately put them in my "must have" list.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

rexroadj said:


> And we will deal with it and your outlandish comments....oh sorry, "opinions" which have no factual basis, or none you can seem to explain except for "because I said so" Now, I dont want to be rude.....whats that called again?
> 
> How bout them 2 channel HD's! WAY flatter response and cleaner then any amp made yet! Oh wait....they were never made????? (unfortunately
> 
> Seriously bud.......do you have an A game? Is this how your going to approach everything on here? You may say your staying but at this rate? You may not have a choice in the matter


Dude must have bridged them.
I went off of what he told me.
meh

Don't get me wrong. It's a very nice amp. I still think there is better bang for the buck out there.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

rexroadj said:


> And we will deal with it and your outlandish comments....oh sorry, "opinions" which have no factual basis, or none you can seem to explain except for "because I said so" Now, I dont want to be rude.....whats that called again?
> 
> How bout them 2 channel HD's! WAY flatter response and cleaner then any amp made yet! Oh wait....they were never made????? (unfortunately
> 
> Seriously bud.......do you have an A game? Is this how your going to approach everything on here? You may say your staying but at this rate? You may not have a choice in the matter


I have yet to see your A game either aside from trying to harass a new guy on the forum by calling him ignorant. Or misinformed.

There are many people out there who won't even run JL. Some of their opinion is based on the price. The other half is the preformance.

I am not very popular around here for writing about how I feel, which is 100% ok with me. I would rather get my opinion heard than just agree with members testing, giving you specific tests (other than what my ears can provide). I have to run 60 samples a day in my lab and I don't really care to test every car audio product. This is a hobby for me and prehaps when I retire I can be more exact in my claims give you some hard numbers. Heck I may even walk around with a notebook and take notes. If you feel that doesn't make me qualified to comment that it your opinion and you can disreguard mine. I am still going to comment.

I research all my products before I buy them. JL amps really haven't stuck out as something that is worth the money at least, BNIB. I would much rather search for a used zuki, mcintosh, zed, or mmats. 

I buy almost all my gear used so I have to take that into consideration when I comment. Believe me when I say this, I would not have paid 700+ for these 1000/1's new.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

WestCo said:


> I have yet to see your A game either aside from trying to harass a new guy on the forum by calling him ignorant. Or misinformed.
> 
> There are many people out there who won't even run JL. Some of their opinion is based on the price. The other half is the preformance.
> 
> ...


You just dont get it....I know the mods have warned you....I will not bother (hence your **** fest first thread
An opinion, if stated should have some reasoning behind it. ESPECIALLY when your going against things that have factual backing. If thats what you call and opinion thats fine. It is ignorant whether you like it or accept it or not! Thats what it is!
No one cares about what you do for work.....no relevance! Why do you keep bringing it up.....
You love saying that your not a newb....then you say you dont have time to try all these things etc.....and try and pull the ignorance or newb card (2yrs isnt a vet either buddy!) as you want it to work for you. It doesnt work that way in life and its not going to work here and your gonna get called out for it every single time...if not by me then someone else. Hence the lack of A. game. Everything you say has so many holes in it its not even funny. Your not contributing anything. You want to learn? Great! You have something to contribute? Were all all ears! You just want to toss out a lame statement without anything to support it....especially when asked? Yeah, your not going to last long! My advice to you is to take a different approach! You sound like a NEWB! which is ok......but you want to be listened to and approached like a seasoned vet. Aint gonna fly! 
I dont want to break your balls........ I really dont! How about a different approach from here on out?


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

rexroadj said:


> You just dont get it....I know the mods have warned you....I will not bother (hence your **** fest first thread
> An opinion, if stated should have some reasoning behind it. ESPECIALLY when your going against things that have factual backing. If thats what you call and opinion thats fine. It is ignorant whether you like it or accept it or not! Thats what it is!
> No one cares about what you do for work.....no relevance! Why do you keep bringing it up.....
> You love saying that your not a newb....then you say you dont have time to try all these things etc.....and try and pull the ignorance or newb card (2yrs isnt a vet either buddy!) as you want it to work for you. It doesnt work that way in life and its not going to work here and your gonna get called out for it every single time...if not by me then someone else. Hence the lack of A. game. Everything you say has so many holes in it its not even funny. Your not contributing anything. You want to learn? Great! You have something to contribute? Were all all ears! You just want to toss out a lame statement without anything to support it....especially when asked? Yeah, your not going to last long! My advice to you is to take a different approach! You sound like a NEWB! which is ok......but you want to be listened to and approached like a seasoned vet. Aint gonna fly!
> I dont want to break your balls........ I really dont! How about a different approach from here on out?


I never expected to be treated like an authority. That is not my goal. Let me comment as a noob, I take no offence being called one. Feel free to disagree and post accordingly.

I am all about having a fresh start for the both of us. Instead going back and forth with me. Why not post your oppinions on the matters at hand and be done with it instead of bringing my comments into question? Go ahead and use all the hard facts you want. 

Something like:
"I disagree, this is why, have a nice day"

And we will both be great friends.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Also it's not like I am recommending audiopipe or kenwood amps to people... lol


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

We have. When you disregard the testing done here because you don't feel that is valid, you aren't open to learning. You want someone here to stroke your ego and that's not how this forum works. We're about data, testing, and the scientific method.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

WestCo said:


> Also it's not like I am recommending audiopipe or kenwood amps to people... lol


I'd recommend Audiopipe before JL if were talking subwoofer amps. You can't beat Audiopipe when it comes to cheap power.

I installed one of their "competition" 16V 3000 watt amps and almost **** my pants at the sheer power they produce. I've never seen someones dash lights dim so bad lol.

I would never recommend Kenwood amps though. All the Kenwoods I've ever gotten were dead upon arrival. So much for trusting the good name brands...

My only gripe with JL is that with their name comes a good price. Even used. I can't find any JL amp for less than $300 used. I'm a broke M effer so $300 isn't going to cut it I don't care how small, reliable, and efficient it is.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> We have. When you disregard the testing done here because you don't feel that is valid, you aren't open to learning. You want someone here to stroke your ego and that's not how this forum works. We're about data, testing, and the scientific method.


Look questioning testing done isn't an attack on anyone. I have been trained by my profession to always question tests. I appreciate all the hard work done by those who do the tests. Testing anyting is a pain. When the testing directly conflicts with my experiences with products than one should call the test into question. Not necessarily the experimenter. It's nothing personal. Look at manufactures specs, most of them are far from accurate...

On the other hand there is no database which has tested every piece of audio equipment independantly. (None that I am aware of, if so please forward me the link.) 

I will learn what I can from everyone's hard work. But if I hear a JL system setup by a professional I should be able to give my impression from my ears. Which are also biological instruments of measuring sound. This does make things a bit subjective.

I like a warm sounding system with tight base slightly agressive mids and smooth highs. When I say that my pioneer double din was a disappointment because the dac severly distorts the electic guitar in some of my favorite music tracts, that is not an assult on someone elses test. It is purely my findings. Maybe they didn't try to play Boston's "I had a good time" which I enjoy, but is very hard to find a good souce that won't absolutely butcher the song. You could argue that the recording is at fault (with often time IS the case). However the sound card on my PC does a very nice job converting/processing the sound from the same CD used. 

Anyway it's time for some taco bell.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

SaturnSL1 said:


> I'd recommend Audiopipe before JL if were talking subwoofer amps. You can't beat Audiopipe when it comes to cheap power.
> 
> I installed one of their "competition" 16V 3000 watt amps and almost **** my pants at the sheer power they produce. I've never seen someones dash lights dim so bad lol.
> 
> ...


By beef about AP is that there are numbers tests which show the amp can't do what it's rated. I have never ran AP in all fairness.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

WestCo said:


> The jl's slashes are ok.
> I like the extra power, I didn't like having to add two kintetics batteries in the trunk. I still have some tuning to do on the bass eq levels on my ps8. But they are ok. I don't see anything that would immediately put them in my "must have" list.


Answered 0 of my questions. Thank you. 


BTW, it's usually the noobs the feel the need to anounce that they are not noobs. Personally, I don't care if i'm a noob or not (20 years in the industry kind of tells me i'm not).


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

WestCo said:


> Look questioning testing done isn't an attack on anyone. I have been trained by my profession to always question tests. I appreciate all the hard work done by those who do the tests. Testing anyting is a pain. When the testing directly conflicts with my experiences with products than one should call the test into question. Not necessarily the experimenter. It's nothing personal. Look at manufactures specs, most of them are far from accurate...
> 
> On the other hand there is no database which has tested every piece of audio equipment independantly. (None that I am aware of, if so please forward me the link.)
> 
> ...


Like I said, you're not open to learning


----------



## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

WestCo said:


> By beef about AP is that there are numbers tests which show the amp can't do what it's rated. I have never ran AP in all fairness.


Yeah they definitely don't do rated but they make enough power that it's an option that I'd consider. They are super ugly amplifiers though


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> Like I said, you're not open to learning


Thank you Button!!!!!


----------



## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> Like I said, you're not open to learning


I am very open to learning. Feel free to share knowledge with me at any time.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

We all have been.....You dont get it.......AT ALL!

Good luck....... I am not willing to indulge in this clusterfuck anymore..... Gotta tell you though....Your time will be VERY limited here if you continue on this path!

I dont think your a bad guy.....just not ready for this place maybe? (not saying its better then anywhere else....its just VERY different)
I hope I'm wrong!


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

SaturnSL1 said:


> Yeah they definitely don't do rated but they make enough power that it's an option that I'd consider. They are super ugly amplifiers though


Yes, ugly is an understatment 
I normally try not to care about looks. But the giant dildo on top of the amp is a turn off.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

rexroadj said:


> We all have been.....You dont get it.......AT ALL!
> 
> Good luck....... I am not willing to indulge in this clusterfuck anymore..... Gotta tell you though....Your time will be VERY limited here if you continue on this path!
> 
> ...


I will do more reading and see if I can increase my knowledge a bit more. 
Maybe I am not ready for this place. Make some recommendations for me. NOT ca.com or SMD. Who know's I may leave and never come back.

All the best,
Westco


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

WestCo said:


> I will do more reading and see if I can increase my knowledge a bit more.
> Maybe I am not ready for this place. Make some recommendations for me. NOT ca.com or SMD. Who know's I may leave and never come back.
> 
> All the best,
> Westco


Start here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...put-guy-who-used-believe-amps-sound-same.html


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Start here:
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...put-guy-who-used-believe-amps-sound-same.html


Reading now.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

WestCo said:


> I will do more reading and see if I can increase my knowledge a bit more.
> Maybe I am not ready for this place. Make some recommendations for me. NOT ca.com or SMD. Who know's I may leave and never come back.
> 
> All the best,
> Westco


No one wants you to leave (at least I dont!). I'm not going to recommend another place for you either. There is a lot to be gained here in my opinion...I learn here everyday and I've been in the field for well over a decade...on various levels!
If you want to learn more and expand your knowledge for the sake of myths and wasted money and equipment/time.......This is absolutely the place! Forget me.....I'm a mental midget compared to most on here.... I'm usually the guy that says things most are thinking but dont want to get banned  The ahole? Meh, it is what it is I guess........My strengths....if I have any, is that I have used just about everything under the sun for the sake of just knowing that I got to listen/play! I learned after all that...... most steps are just sideways! Thats pretty eye opening. It sucked because most of it was on my dime....later on it was not  (thank god!!!)

I'm sincere when I say I dont want to jump down your throat and I dont want you to leave. Like I have said and many others...its really simple. If your going to say something that may be a "statement" you have to be able to back it up...especially if it goes against things that are proven otherwise with documented fact. I too fought this for a while.....I was wrong! The education has been wonderful! I dont believe everything is told on a test sheet etc.... (sorry guys, I still dont But 90% or better can be told and understood long before you take it out of the box.....Thats HUGE to know in this field. If you want to say that a McIntosh is better then...say your slash amps? Fine...but you better come up with something better then sound! Mind you...I was a HUGE collector at one point! I know mac! I will bet you my range rover that I can install either in a system and tuned gains etc...you will not be able to tell the difference even with a gun to your head! Thats what you need to grasp......and it can be proved without ever mounting either in my vehicle! Its not an argument! Thats the big problem here.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I see a lot has transpired here. I see many have not heeded my warning. I expect an inbox from quite a few you containing shipping details. From now on I WILL be the final judge as to whether you have the superior amp! Now get out there and start disconnecting!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Inbox? WTF? You mean a message? Jeez...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

WestCo said:


> I am very open to learning. Feel free to share knowledge with me at any time.


We have. Start by realizing tests ARE better than your ears. No matter how good you think your ears are, measurements don't like. 

This will absolutely change how you approach audio, and for the better. Stop thinking you're smarter than everyone here. I promise you that you aren't. Those that are, are very good about sharing what they know. 

Take a step back, read EVERYTHING, and you're going to be surprised what you learn.


----------



## Sound Suggestions (Dec 5, 2010)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Start here:
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...put-guy-who-used-believe-amps-sound-same.html


oh no you didn't :argue:been there done that! no winning


----------



## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

WestCo said:


> I would rather have 6 channels with clean power then 2 channels with a slighlty flatter responce.


Can you elaborate on this? Or atleast explain what you mean?


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

PPI_GUY said:


> Can you elaborate on this? Or atleast explain what you mean?


This maybe not the most fair comparison in the world. Just a matter of prospective. I would rather have a 6 channels at my disposal than 4 (for my mids and highs).

Ever since I switched over to fully active 3 way front stage I don't think I can ever go back to passive crossovers. 

For the price of a JL hd600/4 I would rather have a leviathan. They retail for the same cost and the leviathan is far more versitile than the JL, and has more power on tap. I usually don't care about space either for my amps. The JL has a much smaller footprint then the levi, my comparison is more philosophical I guess.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

WestCo said:


> This maybe not the most fair comparison in the world. Just a matter of prospective. I would rather have a 6 channels at my disposal than 4 (for my mids and highs).
> 
> Ever since I switched over to fully active 3 way front stage I don't think I can ever go back to passive crossovers.
> 
> For the price of a JL hd600/4 I would rather have a leviathan. They retail for the same cost and the leviathan is far more versitile than the JL, and has more power on tap. I usually don't care about space either for my amps. The JL has a much smaller footprint then the levi, my comparison is more philosophical I guess.


Alright....now I can roll with this! You had a brain far as far as two channel vs the hd600/4 before.....it happens! No worries!
Now, you run 3 way active and you need 6 channels. Obviously a 4 channel isnt going to cut the mustard....especially for the same cost as a 6! You explained why you would choose one over the other based on your needs! PERFECT! Is it apples to apples? No, of course not! But if you could buy the hd600/4 and bridge it to a passive 3way set or a six channel and go active for the same price and you prefer the active arrangement? 
No one can argue that point! 

Thank you, thats all we have been asking for! Well put! again, maybe not apples to apples as far as channels but as I described...if your choice was hd bridged or 6 active.....you have a choice for the same price and you can justify what you want (either way) and its not disputable! 

Thats it man.....cant speak for everyone...but for me? thats all I ask. Thank you for the clarification!


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

rexroadj said:


> Alright....now I can roll with this! You had a brain far as far as two channel vs the hd600/4 before.....it happens! No worries!
> Now, you run 3 way active and you need 6 channels. Obviously a 4 channel isnt going to cut the mustard....especially for the same cost as a 6! You explained why you would choose one over the other based on your needs! PERFECT! Is it apples to apples? No, of course not! But if you could buy the hd600/4 and bridge it to a passive 3way set or a six channel and go active for the same price and you prefer the active arrangement?
> No one can argue that point!
> 
> ...


No problem sir!
I am addicted to running active and love this little ps8. (By far the best investment I have made in the hobby as far as tuning is concerned.)


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

I forgot to mention that I also like the C5-650 components that I am currently using in my 2012 WRX. They were the easiest drop-in replacement that I can think of and met my needs and expectations for a simple drop-in replacement.


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

Quick JL fact sheet

AT ONE TIME had superior quality
Amps are current hogs
Extremely overpriced
Products are aimed at low-end car audio consumers for the price of high-end equipment
Most of their subs have been the same exact model for about 10 years

I did have some 20 year old W1s (first version) and they had good SQ.

I suppose you could say that out of the big name brands they make good equipment... but that's not saying much.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And here we go again.....


----------



## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Tenacious said:


> Quick JL fact sheet
> 
> AT ONE TIME had superior quality
> *Amps are current hogs*
> ...


You must have skipped the part where the teacher explained the difference between facts, and opinion. 

Statement 2 couldn't be more opposite from the truth. 

Extremely overpriced is, as I said, opinion, not fact. 

Not sure how you can aim for low end consumers with high pricing... explain?

Most of their subs have been updated to new versions multiple times over the last 10 years, the exception being the W7 which hasn't needed an update IMO. 


At this point, it's pretty obvious that you didn't read any of the thread, especially the last few pages. Therefore, I put 0 stock in your opinions/comments.


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

WRX/Z28 said:


> You must have skipped the part where the teacher explained the difference between facts, and opinion.
> 
> Statement 2 couldn't be more opposite from the truth.
> 
> ...


Statement 2: tests I've seen in the past have shown that one of the most commonly used JL amps (slash 1000) is very inefficient and uses a large current. 

Price: I'm fairly sure anyone will agree that it's stupid to pay twice the price of other products just because its a "JL"

The high end/low end was stating how the prices are that of high end (which they don't really have, their top of the line subwoofer only has a RMS of 1000 and they have no large amps) but their equipment is in the low end power range. 

Your next point is an opinion, and according to your theory it means I should put "0 stock" on your post. Technology has made many advances in the past 10 years, and a company's "top of the line" product should definitely reflect those changes.


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

Tenacious said:


> Statement 2: tests I've seen in the past have shown that one of the most commonly used JL amps (slash 1000) is very inefficient and uses a large current.
> 
> Price: I'm fairly sure anyone will agree that it's stupid to pay twice the price of other products just because its a "JL"
> 
> ...


Nevermind....I like to watch to much.


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

I'm not trying to start an argument here, as I can tell you guys are dead set on your opinions. That's fine that you have your opinions, but I have mine as well. Mine is that JL is a pretty good company, but their products are much too expensive for the quality of the products.


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

There is a lot of very good information here. All it takes is some reading....


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The Slashes are a/b amps. Of course they are inefficient. The HDs, on the other hand, are very efficient. 

The W7 is one of the best subs on the planet, period. It's not an SPL sub and wasn't designed to be. For that same reason they don't make amps that deliver over 1200 watts. 

Do you even read what you write before you hit "submit"?


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

quality_sound said:


> The Slashes are a/b amps. Of course they are inefficient. The HDs, on the other hand, are very efficient.
> 
> The W7 is one of the best subs on the planet, period. It's not an SPL sub and wasn't designed to be. For that same reason they don't make amps that deliver over 1200 watts.
> 
> Do you even read what you write before you hit "submit"?


Did you read what you wrote before you hit "submit"?

The Slash 1000 which I referenced is, in fact, a Class D amp (and still a power hog), as shown here http://mediacdn.jlaudio.com/media/mfg/9013/media_document/live_1/1000_1_MAN.pdf?1317780748

The W7 is a well-made subwoofer, but does that justify not upgrading it for 12 years when leaps and bounds have been made in technology? I'll admit that it's still much above average for SQ, but better subwoofers can be had for similar or lower prices. I won't even comment on the price point, because apparently money grows on trees in this thread.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Tenacious said:


> Statement 2: tests I've seen in the past have shown that one of the most commonly used JL amps (slash 1000) is very inefficient and uses a large current.
> 
> Price: I'm fairly sure anyone will agree that it's stupid to pay twice the price of other products just because its a "JL"
> 
> ...


Efficency: I'd like to see the tests on efficency you are referring to. The 1000/1 is a class D amp and as such should be far more efficent than class a/b. 
The latest "slash" amps are version 3 and the new 1200/1 recommends the same 100 amp external fusing as the discontinued 1000/1. That would mean either the older model was underrated or the newer version is even MORE efficent than the previous model.

Price I: as pointed out repeatedly, price can encompass alot of things. R&D, customer service/support, warranty, etc. Ever notice JL uses proprietary designs? You won't find a JL amplifier board in a Hifonics or Audiopipe chassis.

Price II: you previously stated that JL products are "aimed at low-end car audio consumers for the price of high-end equipment". This comment suggests JL products aren't high quality. Even more so when considered with your earlier statement that they "AT ONE TIME had superior quality". Perhaps you can enlighten us all on the areas where they (in your opinion) have slipped? 

Products: I think it's pretty common knowledge that JL conservatively rates the power handling capabilities of their drivers. 
A point of reference on products in the "low power range", I got into car audio in the late 1980's when a "high power system" might have seen 1000 watts for the entire install. I've heard plenty of high quality setups over the years and seriously doubt there is any nuance in recorded material I've missed because the subs would "only" handle 1000 watts.

Product advancement: I agree products should move forward with innovation and research. But, I fail to see where JL has been deficient in this area? Their venerable slash series are now in their 3rd revision, they've introduced the HD and XD lines, their woofers and components have likewise followed with newly updated versions. All of this in the "last 10 years" as you say. But, again please tell us where they have dropped the ball. 

Basically your argument is chock full of holes. You make several unsubstantiated claims and use the tired old "overpriced" argument without giving any comparisons to comparably featured products from competitors. 
I think we would all be interested in some direct a/b comparisons. If, as you say, JL is "extremely overpriced" then there should be several easy comparisons to be made.


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

Fi Q - a SQ based driver with 1500 RMS for $284. Or as I call it, the "less than half price W7 killer"

Q12 - Fi Car Audio Store

Sundown amplifiers are also exclusive designs.. The JL 1200/1 is $679 on sonic, and a SAZ-2500D (which is extremely underrated) can be had for $650.

A 100 amp fuse for a 1200 watt amp is a bit absurd if you're saying this amp is underrated.. That means the amp is 100% efficient if this rating is at 12v like many high end audio companies use. It's more likely that it's rated to put out 1200w @ 14.4v, which leaves VERY little room for it to be underrated. 

By low-end I meant power handling. I wasn't trying to say their quality has slipped, because I'll agree that the subwoofers are in fact high quality, although the surrounds were crap until they finally upgraded them.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Tenacious, nevermind. 
I just read your signature and see that you seem to primarily be into spl. 
This thread is about JL Audio and they, by their own admission do not make a spl woofer. So, if you are trying to say that JL Audio equipment is a poor choice for the spl crowd, I would gladly agree. Apples and oranges.


----------



## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Tenacious said:


> A 100 amp fuse for a 1200 watt amp is a bit absurd if you're saying this amp is underrated.. That means the amp is 100% efficient if this rating is at 12v like many high end audio companies use. It's more likely that it's rated to put out 1200w @ 14.4v, which leaves VERY little room for it to be underrated.


From the Jl Audio website regarding fusing on the 1200/1...

*Fuse Rating 100 A (AFS, AGU or MaxiFuse™)*

Read it for yourself under "General Specifications"-
1200/1v3 - Car Audio - Amplifiers - Slash v3 - JL Audio

I would also point out that amp (along with all "slash" series) *makes rated power at 11-14.5 volts.*


----------



## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

PPI_GUY said:


> Tenacious, nevermind.
> I just read your signature and see that you seem to primarily be into spl.
> This thread is about JL Audio and they, by their own admission do not make a spl woofer. So, if you are trying to say that JL Audio equipment is a poor choice for the spl crowd, I would gladly agree. Apples and oranges.


That's true. However I still enjoy SQ as well. I agree that JL makes good SQ equipment, I never disagreed there. I myself had 2 W1v1s as my first system. I'm simply stating their prices are rather high and they have their flaws, as does every brand. I just get sick and tired of people treating JL like their products were made by the gods... Because obviously the "power from the gods" goes into Hifonics products :laugh:

Please don't take that last sentence too seriously..


----------



## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

PPI_GUY said:


> From the Jl Audio website regarding fusing on the 1200/1...
> 
> *Fuse Rating 100 A (AFS, AGU or MaxiFuse™)*
> 
> ...


I wasn't disagreeing on you with the fuse size, I'm just saying there's not much room for it to be underrated. 100amps x 12 volts = 1200 watts, and that would be at 100% efficiency. Like I said, they most likely rate their equipment at 14.4v, and there's really nothing wrong with that as long as they state it. I guess I'm just spoiled by all the companies that underrate their products by rating them at 12v.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Tenacious said:


> Statement 2: tests I've seen in the past have shown that one of the most commonly used JL amps (slash 1000) is very inefficient and uses a large current.


Tests were performed measuring one parameter, amps, and forgot to pay attention to voltage as it sagged (regulated supplies draw more current as voltage drops). The 1000/1 is discontinued anyway. The new HD amps have proven to be extremely efficient. The 1000/1 was efficient for it's day, and actually still efficient compared to many other amps today. 




Tenacious said:


> Price: I'm fairly sure anyone will agree that it's stupid to pay twice the price of other products just because its a "JL"


I would agree too, if the brand name was the reason. Assuming so is your mistake...



Tenacious said:


> The high end/low end was stating how the prices are that of high end (which they don't really have, their top of the line subwoofer only has a RMS of 1000 and they have no large amps) but their equipment is in the low end power range.


So high end is based on power handling? Makes sense 

How about their 13w7 that is rated for 1500rms? 

While 1200rms from their HD amps is not huge to SPL guys, it's plenty for anyone that actually listens to music. 



Tenacious said:


> Your next point is an opinion, and according to your theory it means I should put "0 stock" on your post. Technology has made many advances in the past 10 years, and a company's "top of the line" product should definitely reflect those changes.


You're correct, it certainly is an opinion. This opinion was based on the evidence provided. I stand by it after your further commentary continues to have no foundation....

Exactly what large advances in technology have been made in speakers in the last 10 years btw?


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Tenacious said:


> I wasn't disagreeing on you with the fuse size, I'm just saying there's not much room for it to be underrated. 100amps x 12 volts = 1200 watts, and that would be at 100% efficiency. Like I said, they most likely rate their equipment at 14.4v, and there's really nothing wrong with that as long as they state it. I guess I'm just spoiled by all the companies that underrate their products by rating them at 12v.


They actually rate their equipment at 11v-14.4. The fuse needs to be 100a to deal with the current draw when your voltage sags to 11 and the amp continues to pump out the same power. Does your buildhouse ordered hifonics amp do that? I think not. Every Hifonics amp I could find was rated at 14.4, so not sure what you're talking about with being spoiled by companies that rate at 12v...


----------



## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Tenacious said:


> I wasn't disagreeing on you with the fuse size, I'm just saying there's not much room for it to be underrated. 100amps x 12 volts = 1200 watts, and that would be at 100% efficiency. Like I said, they most likely rate their equipment at 14.4v, and there's really nothing wrong with that as long as they state it. I guess I'm just spoiled by all the companies that underrate their products by rating them at 12v.


Actually, all slash (and HD series) amps will make the same rated power at 11 volts as they do at 14.5 volts. 
Please see _R.I.P.S Technology _on the linked page I provided earlier.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

WRX/Z28 said:


> They actually rate their equipment at 11v-14.4. The fuse needs to be 100a to deal with the current draw when your voltage sags to 11 and the amp continues to pump out the same power. Does your buildhouse ordered hifonics amp do that? I think not. Every Hifonics amp I could find was rated at 14.4, so not sure what you're talking about with being spoiled by companies that rate at 12v...


Better yet, have Hifonics amps started making rated power at 1 ohm yet? It's been several years since I played with one, but they started to clip way before their rated 1 ohm power output level.

I know, I know, someone is going to tell me the new ones are CEA rated... My retort is that the CEA standard only applies to 4 ohms.


----------



## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

ChrisB said:


> Better yet, have Hifonics amps started making rated power at 1 ohm yet? It's been several years since I played with one, but they started to clip way before their rated 1 ohm power output level.
> 
> I know, I know, someone is going to tell me the new ones are CEA rated... My retort is that the CEA standard only applies to 4 ohms.



Not to mention, will they make half rated power when your honda civic's electrical system dives to 11.5 volts? 

Sure, JL is junk, Hifonics is where the real technology packed amps are at.... :cwm13:


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

I guess no one cares that I'm ordering either a AQ or Crescendo amp in the next week. 

Seeing as I paid $100 for the current amp, 2 old subs and a probox (which I'm selling the set for $500 to a friend this week) I'd say it was a good deal.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Tenacious said:


> I guess no one cares that I'm ordering either a AQ or Crescendo amp in the next week.
> 
> Seeing as I paid $100 for the current amp, 2 old subs and a probox (which I'm selling the set for $500 to a friend this week) I'd say it was a good deal.


Nope, nobody cares. :wrongforum:


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Nope, nobody cares. :wrongforum:


^ This is how I feel about your JL nuthugging.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Tenacious said:


> ^ This is how I feel about your JL nuthugging.


LOL, i'm no JL nuthugger. I just hate it when people with little to no real world experience with a product presume to call it overpriced. 


There are ton's of other good products out there, unfortunately, you haven't named a single one that I would be interested in...


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

WRX/Z28 said:


> LOL, i'm no JL nuthugger. I just hate it when people with little to no real world experience with a product presume to call it overpriced.
> 
> 
> There are ton's of other good products out there, unfortunately, you haven't named a single one that I would be interested in...


Describe what type of product you're interested in.


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## LovesMusic (Mar 29, 2012)

I enjoy long drives with trouble free power and sub bass... thanks JL


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

Tenacious said:


> Fi Q - a SQ based driver with 1500 RMS for $284. Or as I call it, the "less than half price W7 killer"
> 
> Q12 - Fi Car Audio Store
> 
> ...



You've lost me a couple of times. I thought there older stuff was superior?


----------



## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

I will say this, I've always considered Image Dynamics IDQ and IDMAX drivers to atleast be on par with JL Audio. Both series are SQ oriented and very comparable to each other in features, warranty and pricing. They also seem to both be aimed at the same market segment. 
How the recent changes at ID will affect all of this going forward remains to be seen.


----------



## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> We have. Start by realizing tests ARE better than your ears. No matter how good you think your ears are, measurements don't like.
> 
> This will absolutely change how you approach audio, and for the better. Stop thinking you're smarter than everyone here. I promise you that you aren't. Those that are, are very good about sharing what they know.
> 
> Take a step back, read EVERYTHING, and you're going to be surprised what you learn.


I respect you and your advice. I will give it a shot.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

PPI_GUY said:


> I will say this, I've always considered Image Dynamics IDQ and IDMAX drivers to atleast be on par with JL Audio. Both series are SQ oriented and very comparable to each other in features, warranty and pricing. They also seem to both be aimed at the same market segment.
> How the recent changes at ID will affect all of this going forward remains to be seen.


I really enjoy ID woofers in my ported enclosures. They aren't expensive, give a decient responce at lower wattage, and hit cleanly with authority. Great value.

I had some ID 12 v3's and just upgraded to some ID max 12's 
Are you planning on sealed or ported?


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

SQ is only important if there's an audible difference, unless you're competing. Isn't how your car sounds the entire point of it all?


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## Tnutt19 (Dec 22, 2010)

Tenacious said:


> SQ is only important if there's an audible difference, unless you're competing. Isn't how your car sounds the entire point of it all?


Your clearly into SPL. Your just in denial. You might be thinking that SQ is about having a ton of bass, clear highs and being able to show off to your high school friends. There is a lot more to SQ than that. Until you really understand that I am not sure you will be ready to have a discussion about wether or not something is "over priced".


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## Tnutt19 (Dec 22, 2010)

WestCo said:


> I really enjoy ID woofers in my ported enclosures. They aren't expensive, give a decient responce at lower wattage, and hit cleanly with authority. Great value.
> 
> I had some ID 12 v3's and just upgraded to some ID max 12's
> Are you planning on sealed or ported?


IDMAX is one of if not my favorite sounding subs to date. They can handle a ton of power if desired or can sound awesome on as little as 600 watts. I powered mine with 800 watts and it sounded awesome, then threw 1600 watts at it and it loved every bit of it. 
BTW, they sound great in IB also, I prefer them ported tuned down to 30HZ however.


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

Tnutt19 said:


> Your clearly into SPL. Your just in denial. You might be thinking that SQ is about having a ton of bass, clear highs and being able to show off to your high school friends. There is a lot more to SQ than that. Until you really understand that I am not sure you will be ready to have a discussion about wether or not something is "over priced".


If we're talking SQ, JL isn't the best either. Compare it to brands such as PHD, Genesis, Hybrid, Zed and maybe even ID. When you say "there is a lot more to SQ" please explain what more you could want from SQ other than music clarity and having it sound the way you want.


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## Tnutt19 (Dec 22, 2010)

Tenacious said:


> If we're talking SQ, JL isn't the best either. Compare it to brands such as PHD, Genesis, Hybrid, Zed and maybe even ID. When you say "there is a lot more to SQ" please explain what more you could want from SQ other than music clarity and having it sound the way you want.


Having it sound the way you want is a little vague dont you think?
Just to name a few of what more there is to SQ; warmth, depth, imaging, brightness, transparancy and the list goes on.

Personally I enjoy JL subs, as i mentioned before the ID MAx is one of, if not my favorite subs to date, I am currently running 2 w712's though in an oversized ported box tuned to 30hz and SQ is awesome! It sounds every bit as good as the ID MAX but just has the ability to provide more output when desired.

Your original post was that JL was over priced, I do not remember anyone posting anywhere that it was the best for Sq on the planet. Their subs, if installed correctly, do provide excellent value however in that they will sound really dang good and provide year and years of use. You said it your self that you are or were using super old W1's, they build a super reliable product.


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

Tnutt19 said:


> Having it sound the way you want is a little vague dont you think?
> Just to name a few of what more there is to SQ; warmth, depth, imaging, brightness, transparancy and the list goes on.
> 
> Personally I enjoy JL subs, as i mentioned before the ID MAx is one of, if not my favorite subs to date, I am currently running 2 w712's though in an oversized ported box tuned to 30hz and SQ is awesome! It sounds every bit as good as the ID MAX but just has the ability to provide more output when desired.
> ...


I agree that they are good products. I just get tired of all the nuthugging associated with the brand when there's plenty of brands on par with their quality that are overlooked simply because they don't have a JL sticker on their products. And in my opinion, the prices are in fact outrageous. 

On another note, if they were cheaper I'd have some of the new W6s in a heartbeat. They've impressed me more than the W7s so far. It's just the fact that there's so many more options at the price range and lower that will achieve the same results.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I'd rather spend more once that half as much three of four times because a "just as good for less" sub/amp keeps dying. Maybe it's just me.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

WestCo said:


> I really enjoy ID woofers in my ported enclosures. They aren't expensive, give a decient responce at lower wattage, and hit cleanly with authority. Great value.
> 
> I had some ID 12 v3's and just upgraded to some ID max 12's
> Are you planning on sealed or ported?


I run two 1st generation IDQ10d4 subs in my daily driver, sealed enclosure with approx. 400 watts to each. Love their low end extension and amazing impact. I would think a W3 or W6 would sound similiar.

Howeever, new IDQ's or MAX are only slightly below JL in pricing.


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## LovesMusic (Mar 29, 2012)

Most certainly aint "just" you "quality sound"... I feel the exact same way...
and I bet most repeat JL customers, are repeat customers for the same reasons, solid reliable performance, at a higher price..but I have no problem justifing that.

Same is said for those that shop at crutchfield..


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> I'd rather spend more once that half as much three of four times because a "just as good for less" sub/amp keeps dying. Maybe it's just me.


Forrest thru the trees, some people just can't see it.


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## Tenacious (Jan 18, 2013)

If you're buying the same equipment 3 or 4 times that's a user error... Just because its a lower price than JL doesn't mean it's crap.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

quality_sound said:


> I'd rather spend more once that half as much three of four times because a "just as good for less" sub/amp keeps dying. Maybe it's just me.


It's all about how you use the stuff. I believe about 90% of the time amps and subs fry because some idiot is behind the volume knob.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Tenacious said:


> If you're buying the same equipment 3 or 4 times that's a user error... Just because its a lower price than JL doesn't mean it's crap.


Absolutely. I've got 15 year old junk amps that take a nasty beating and always pull through it unscathed. If you're blowing **** multiple times there's a serious problem.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The point was that if you're breaking JL gear it's almost certainly user error. That's not to say that JL gear never breaks, however. Just that it's less of a concern because it is quality gear.


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

I have the XD600/6 for my daily driver.. and I have to say it is one hell of an amp.. I'm really happy with it even though I am a biased ZUKI owner.

Tons of power, alternator stays at constant 14.4, and size- tiny!.... runs the fronts, rears and 12" sub all at half gains.. 

SQ? - I would rate it 7.5-8 .. great amp to place on mid-bass & Subs...


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

Tenacious said:


> If you're buying the same equipment 3 or 4 times that's a user error... Just because its a lower price than JL doesn't mean it's crap.


Well if the only change to the system is the amp, with the same user. Then wouldnt the jl amp also blow out if in fact it was user error?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

jimmyjames16 said:


> I have the XD600/6 for my daily driver.. and I have to say it is one hell of an amp.. I'm really happy with it even though I am a biased ZUKI owner.
> 
> Tons of power, alternator stays at constant 14.4, and size- tiny!.... runs the fronts, rears and 12" sub all at half gains..
> 
> SQ? - I would rate it 7.5-8 .. great amp to place on mid-bass & Subs...


When you say tons of power are you suggesting the amp is underrated? That particular amp was one of my considerations, but power in a 3-way front stage beyond what I have now isn't so alluring. Size comparison.... yes. I'll stick to my old gear for now.


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## SoulMan76 (Aug 20, 2012)

jimmyjames16 said:


> I have the XD600/6 for my daily driver.. and I have to say it is one hell of an amp.. I'm really happy with it even though I am a biased ZUKI owner.
> 
> Tons of power, alternator stays at constant 14.4, and size- tiny!.... runs the fronts, rears and 12" sub all at half gains..
> 
> SQ? - I would rate it 7.5-8 .. great amp to place on mid-bass & Subs...


I agree 100%. I first ran a xd500/3 then uprgraded to the xd600/6 for the extra channels, and I also have a xd200/2. They have all been fantastic. I also have C5 mids in my doors and a Wo sub that rattles the **** out of my car with just the 200 watts from the XD, its impressive for being a bottom tier JL sub(spl, not so much SQ).

That said, is JL the best...no one is the best at anything, but you can always count on a quality product from them..always. How many other brands have changed from year to year, new owners, new manufacturing plants, etc. and then the quality tanks. I've seen countless post on here about the glory days of almost every manufacturer but maybe a very few, and JL is one of them. Consistent quality, manufacturing, and new tech. Even someone who is new to mobile audio can go to JL's products and know they are buying a quality product, period. That is why so many people hate JL, they have done something few brands have, stayed consistent over it's life, and earned a name, reputation, and a few "nuthuggers" because of it.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

SoulMan76 said:


> That is why so many people hate JL, they have done something few brands have, stayed consistent over it's life, and earned a name, reputation, and a few "nuthuggers" because of it.




Really now???  I think that is a lot of that "haterism" hooplah that so many people like to use nowadays. The same thing just as someone earlier said "poor people hate JL". :laugh: These types of arguments are not very convincing. 

People have a bias of brands sometimes just because they have a bias of brands. It's called "preferred taste". Who is made judge of that preferred taste?! If they say something untrue of a product or unjustified then I can understand that labeling, but just to say if you don't like JL you're a hater.... really now. ROTFLMAO!!! And that is basically what statements like that says. 


I don't like Fords, but I own one and it runs decent. I prefer Chevy, I own one, but it's a pain sometimes. Does not liking the Ford make me a hater of Ford? There's a lot of validity on both ends of the debate, but I don't think either side will convince anyone on the other side especially to the reasons given. Car audio has been around for years..... JL has been there for years..... Other companies have been there too.... People will still go & buy the latest thing or brand on the market regardless of how good JL products may be. That doesn't make them haters, crazy, foolish with money, or whatever other labels you can come up with that's more along the lines of car audio socialism.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

The reason you see alot of people post things like "you can get better for less" or "JL is just waaaay overpriced" is because those people are usually younger and have no concept of what QUALITY is. They have literally grown up thinking everyone runs a 2500 watt amp on their subs and that amp should be priced around $200-$300. Anything with less power costing more is just "overpriced stuff run by nuthuggers". They have no concept of costs associated with R&D or quality of construction and care little about a warranty or customer service. After all, a $200-$300 amp is basically disposable. If it lasts a year, no big deal, I'll just buy another one. It's been termed the "race to zero" and it's part of what is killing car audio. When you are only looking at the price and how many watts they can squeeze out with their pegged gains and flea market speaker boxes, how can you expect them to understand quality? So, they go out and buy Audiopoop junk and think they've gotten a better deal for pennies compared to JL. Who cares if it doesn't do what it claims to do...it's close enough. Who cares if it's distorted at half gain...it gets them noticed and who needs an o-scope anyway? 
It's not just JL. It's the same with other long established brands too...JBL, Alpine, etc. I guess the old adage is true...in most cases, you just can't fix stupid.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

JL gets a solid B+ in my book thus far. These old JL 1000/1 slashes do what they are rated for. Good clean power that pairs nicely to my id max's. I am pleased overall.

I prefered running my mcc302 to my woofers even though it didn't put out as much juice. I liked the eq on the amp


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

A $200 or $300 amp certainly is not disposable. At least not in my opinion. I've never paid that much for an amp but if I did I wouldn't be so eager to throw it away and get a new one. Why would anyone throw away an amp when in most cases all they need is $20 in parts and 30 minutes on the work bench to get them operational again?


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

SaturnSL1 said:


> A $200 or $300 amp certainly is not disposable. At least not in my opinion. I've never paid that much for an amp but if I did I wouldn't be so eager to throw it away and get a new one. Why would anyone throw away an amp when in most cases all they need is $20 in parts and 30 minutes on the work bench to get them operational again?


I reciently gave away a malfunction sound stream rubicon 600.4... I only paid 85$ for it and I was skammed. I mailed it to a guy who serviced amps and said he could use it for parts. Figured it was better than throwing it in a landfill.

I wouldn't throw out my JL's though, worth repairing for sure. Just depends if you can do it or can find a competent repair service. If the repair bill + shipping > than 1/2 the resale value then it's hardly worth doing unless the resale value is SUPER high.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

jimmyjames16 said:


> I have the XD600/6 for my daily driver.. and I have to say it is one hell of an amp.. I'm really happy with it even though I am a biased ZUKI owner.
> 
> Tons of power, alternator stays at constant 14.4, and size- tiny!.... runs the fronts, rears and 12" sub all at half gains..
> 
> SQ? - I would rate it 7.5-8 .. great amp to place on mid-bass & Subs...


Interesting comment! 
Did you notice _discrepancies_ in the high frequencies?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Not sure how PPI Guy meant that on the $200-300 amp, but my US Acoustics didn't cost that much, but I dare not consider them disposable. I would probably even get them fixed if necessary & cost was reasonable. I've tried other amps, but I have enough of the US Acoustics to configure whatever I want within reason and still have matching amps for a neat looking rack. Are they class D? Nope. Are they small in size? No... but I can still fit two 4 channels & one 2 channel into my system fairly easy. The cost of replacing them with something of equal dependability..... mehhh I'll pass for now. I see no need. I have been tempted though...


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

I guess I just think that way because I have no problems cracking open my amps and performing surgery. It does cost a **** load if you bring it to a technician, that's why I skipped the middle man and fix them myself.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Some of the classifies have some very nice offerings in the 200-300$ range that are fully functional. 
Just sayin' lol


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

SaturnSL1 said:


> I guess I just think that way because I have no problems cracking open my amps and performing surgery. It does cost a **** load if you bring it to a technician, that's why I skipped the middle man and fix them myself.


Sure! If you can do it yourself man!
I wouldn't question that in a second... but the price skyrockets if you send it off to be repaired. Shipping, serive time, + parts and a mark up on the last 2...

I am not comfortable preforming surgury... and definately would not attempt it on any of the amps I am running now... maybe the JL's if I had a "Repairing AMPS for dummies book".


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Honestly, I haven't blown an amp or speaker in years.... In fact, I can't remember when the last time I did. I don't have JL amps, but have had no problem with any others I've ran. Who knows... I can't say that I know what I'm doing, perhaps I'm just lucky.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Bayboy said:


> Not sure how PPI Guy meant that on the $200-300 amp, but my US Acoustics didn't cost that much, but I dare not consider them disposable. I would probably even get them fixed if necessary & cost was reasonable. I've tried other amps, but I have enough of the US Acoustics to configure whatever I want within reason and still have matching amps for a neat looking rack. Are they class D? Nope. Are they small in size? No... but I can still fit two 4 channels & one 2 channel into my system fairly easy. The cost of replacing them with something of equal dependability..... mehhh I'll pass for now. I see no need. I have been tempted though...


I was referencing $200-$300 in the context of the 2500 watt sub amp. That price range may be a bit on the high side when looking at some of the stuff that gets compared to JL ( and JBL, Alpine, etc) and claimed to be of better quality. 
US Acoustics are some of the best deals out there for moderately priced, traditional class a/b-type amplifiers. Not as efficent as class D and as mentioned, they are alittle on the larger side given the trend of small footprint amplifiers. But, if you have the room, they are great and have a nostalgic look as well.
I don't like calling out specific brands as examples of what I call junk. But, you can probably figure out those of "questionable" quality I was alluding to. You see plenty of them on CL and at flea markets.
It's that low end, bargain basement stuff that have alot of inexperienced car audio enthusiasts slamming JL and other established brands primarily on the basis of price per watt.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

PPI_GUY said:


> I was referencing $200-$300 in the context of the 2500 watt sub amp. That price range may be a bit on the high side when looking at some of the stuff that gets compared to JL (JBL, Alpine, etc) and claimed to be of better quality.
> US Acoustics are some of the best deals out there for moderately priced, traditional class a/b-type amplifiers. Not as efficent as class D and as mentioned, they are alittle on the larger side given the trend of small footprint amplifiers. But, if you have the room, they are great and have a nostalgic look as well.
> I don't like calling out specific brands as examples of what I call junk. But, you can probably figure out those of "questionable" quality I was alluding to. You see plenty of them on CL and at flea markets.
> It's that low end, bargain basement stuff that have alot of inexperienced car audio enthusiasts slamming JL and other established brands primarily on the basis of price per watt.


"Junk" is relative lol. 
But Kenwood amps are junk for everyone.
I agree with you on the brands you listed as well.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

PPI_GUY said:


> I was referencing $200-$300 in the context of the 2500 watt sub amp. That price range may be a bit on the high side when looking at some of the stuff that gets compared to JL (JBL, Alpine, etc) and claimed to be of better quality.
> US Acoustics are some of the best deals out there for moderately priced, traditional class a/b-type amplifiers. Not as efficent as class D and as mentioned, they are alittle on the larger side given the trend of small footprint amplifiers. But, if you have the room, they are great and have a nostalgic look as well.
> I don't like calling out specific brands as examples of what I call junk. But, you can probably figure out those of "questionable" quality I was alluding to. You see plenty of them on CL and at flea markets.
> It's that low end, bargain basement stuff that have alot of inexperienced car audio enthusiasts slamming JL and other established brands primarily on the basis of price per watt.




Ahhhh..... I gotcha. Yes, I agree. I have quite a few acquaintances that are willingly ignorant & frown upon my use of such gear. Yet, I can tell them I haven't blown anything from normal use like they have with their supposedly more powerful gear. One day they may learn, but by that time decent gear may be a thing of the past.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

WestCo said:


> "Junk" is relative lol.
> But Kenwood amps are junk for everyone.
> I agree with you on the brands you listed as well.



Kenwood amps are junk for everyone????? That's a bit harsh isn't it? I can't cosign that. Heck, I almost bought one not too long ago, but they didn't have enough other matching amps to go with it.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Bayboy said:


> Kenwood amps are junk for everyone????? That's a bit harsh isn't it? I can't cosign that. Heck, I *almost *bought one not too long ago, but they didn't have enough other matching amps to go with it.


Maybe a bit 2 brutal...
I am sorry.

I am still glad you didn't buy the Kenny though.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I do believe you will find some resistance in that, especially with the Excelon series. Some even had built in DSP which is quite innovative. What is it that you don't like about Kenwood?


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Both the Kenwoods I've ever had and still have, where dead upon arrival lol. One is an older KAC-X401M that has seen some serious beatings. Poor thing needs all kinds of work so I have it put away for now.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

SaturnSL1 said:


> Both the Kenwoods I've ever had and still have, where dead upon arrival lol. One is an older KAC-X401M that has seen some serious beatings. Poor thing needs all kinds of work so I have it put away for now.


Thank you saturn man. I will have to buy you a beer sometime.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Bayboy said:


> I do believe you will find some resistance in that, especially with the Excelon series. Some even had built in DSP which is quite innovative. What is it that you don't like about Kenwood?


I heard many horror stories about the kennies... 
They scare me.

Maybe to characterize the brand as bad is unfair. But it seems like once companies start to go down a bad road, they stay there or continue deeper. It's hard for them to redeem themselves, with me at least.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Just throwing that out there haha. I have no real opinion of Kenwood, I never had one that worked!


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

SaturnSL1 said:


> Just throwing that out there haha. I have no real opinion of Kenwood, I never had on that worked!


LMAO!
This thread is getting good.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Fixed my signature.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Fixed for spelling lol. I missed an e


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

SaturnSL1 said:


> Both the Kenwoods I've ever had and still have, where dead upon arrival lol. One is an older KAC-X401M that has seen some serious beatings. Poor thing needs all kinds of work so I have it put away for now.



That was unfortunate, but that is also a good reason to purchase items from an authorized dealer in case such things happen. I've had one BNIB amp (US Acoustics USB-2080) arrive that was malfunctioning (blowing fuses) upon install. After double checking my connections and finding no fault in wiring I immediately contacted Crutchfield and received a replacement. Haven't had an issue since and that was over 10 years ago. Sometimes that happens, but I would not dare dismiss a brand over that.


One thing I don't do is ask equipment to do or go beyond what it is designed to do. If it can't do what it is supposed to do then I would deem it junk. The same for amps that's overrated. If you know that, then be sure to design a system that does not ask for more than it can actually do, not what it is supposedly rated for. Of course, not all will follow that simple rule if they are buying inferior gear. I've made that suggestion to several people, but they refuse to believe what they bought is just not up to par.


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## nstaln (Feb 11, 2009)

My Kenwood kac-x401m is one of the best subwoofer amps I have ever used. Very solid power and a really nice compliment of sound processing tools. I ran mine for years on a TC Sounds tc3k 15 quad 1.2ohm coils(dcr). It was a 1st gen tc3k that was rated for 1000rms and that amp man-handled it and sounded fantastic doing it. Oh and it still runs just fine...

...Kenwood junk.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Bayboy said:


> That was unfortunate, but that is also a good reason to purchase items from an authorized dealer in case such things happen. I've had one BNIB amp (US Acoustics USB-2080) arrive that was malfunctioning (blowing fuses) upon install. After double checking my connections and finding no fault in wiring I immediately contacted Crutchfield and received a replacement. Haven't had an issue since and that was over 10 years ago. Sometimes that happens, but I would not dare dismiss a brand over that.
> 
> 
> One thing I don't do is ask equipment to do or go beyond what it is designed to do. If it can't do what it is supposed to do then I would deem it junk. The same for amps that's overrated. If you know that, then be sure to design a system that does not ask for more than it can actually do, not what it is supposedly rated for. Of course, not all will follow that simple rule if they are buying inferior gear. I've made that suggestion to several people, but they refuse to believe what they bought is just not up to par.


I got both of my Kenwoods for free, so I don't have any bad feelings about it. I was told the eXcelon worked but it doesn't. 

And yeah I agree with you about not asking too much from the equipment. You're exactly right but sometimes the really junk brands can be surprising. I've typed out the whole story twice, long story short I had a new walmart special Dual amp running 2 ohms bridged for months and it never gave me issues, in the manual that's a big no no. Another crappy old Lecagy I had was running at 3 ohms bridged for a long time and always, always stayed cool as ice. Eventually traded that Legacy to a fool who was talked into putting in a 30 amp fuse instead of the required 20 amp "because they're stronger". He came to me to see whats wrong and the damned thing unsoldered the wire off the fuse holder before any damage could happen. I fixed it and he's still running it now lol.

I'm just ranting now lol, all I'm saying is, power output isn't everything. I guess durability is what I really care about.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

SaturnSL1 said:


> I got both of my Kenwoods for free, so I don't have any bad feelings about it. I was told the eXcelon worked but it doesn't.
> 
> And yeah I agree with you about not asking too much from the equipment. You're exactly right but sometimes the really junk brands can be surprising. I've typed out the whole story twice, long story short I had a new walmart special Dual amp running 2 ohms bridged for months and it never gave me issues, in the manual that's a big no no. Another crappy old Lecagy I had was running at 3 ohms bridged for a long time and always, always stayed cool as ice. Eventually traded that Legacy to a fool who was talked into putting in a 30 amp fuse instead of the required 20 amp "because they're stronger". He came to me to see whats wrong and the damned thing unsoldered the wire off the fuse holder before any damage could happen. I fixed it and he's still running it now lol.
> 
> I'm just ranting now lol, all I'm saying is, power output isn't everything. I guess durability is what I really care about.



Well, that's the claim JL supporters are making and you can't blame them. Having known quality gear or a company that backs their products is always a plus. I take non of that away from JL. Quality costs, that is a known fact. Items of lesser quality need even greater care to insure they are not abused or used outside of what they can do in the real world, not what the manual suggests. You probably lucked up with that gear and found hidden gems. Can it be readily duplicated within that brand? Doubtful....


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## Randyman... (Oct 7, 2012)

Thread Title said:


> Do you like JL Audio products?


I enjoy my JL Slash 450/4 and 300/2 w/o a doubt. The only JL Speakers I've run were a pair of 10W0's as sealed midbasses a long long time ago. Never used their component speakers.


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## noop (Jan 18, 2009)

I like JL, have ran them in my last 3 cars. I have only used their subs though. 1st was 2 12" W6s first version, second car i tried out the w3's, and in my third car i went with 3 12" w6sv1 also. I purchased a 12" w7 and have done nothing with it, just havent had the chance to install a system.


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## AudioBob (May 21, 2007)

I have never had a JL product fail on me. I have ran a 12w6 v2, C5-650 components, 500/1, 300/2' 300/4 and various coaxes over the years with zero issues. I had the amps in 3 different cars over about a 10 year period. I traded my last car in on a whim and left the entire system in or I would still be running the slash series amps.

They design and build great products that perform as advtised and stand behind them.i just don't understand how people think that they are over priced. Sure ther are similar products that are less expensive, but there are also many that cost way more as well.


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

Bayboy said:


> When you say tons of power are you suggesting the amp is underrated? That particular amp was one of my considerations, but power in a 3-way front stage beyond what I have now isn't so alluring. Size comparison.... yes. I'll stick to my old gear for now.


No .. I wouldn't say underrated like old school SS, RF underrated ... but yes its a powerful tiny amp... 

Right now I have it powering Pioneer 3-way fronts, 4-way rears, and a Dayton Reference 12"... all at half gain. Its very strong.

This is the cheapest in quality and priced system I ever had in my Altima, ( I had all raw drivers- Peerless Exclusives, Seas Prestige, IDQ's, DLS, and Morels-powered by RF's, SS Ref's, Genesis Profile & Series II -III, Zuki, PPI Arts, and a few others). This system was to be cheap, effective, lightweight, and most of all - not alternator killing. So far it goes .. it does the job unexpectedly well. 

If my best system (rated 10/10) was the Zuki Eleet powering my Peerless Exclusives and IDQ's.. Then I can rate this setup as a 7/10 with the generic Pioneer Speakers and the JL XD600/6 amp. I am happy for now.

Like I said .. the XD's would be a great amp on mid-bass and sub's.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

You will probably be banned for giving Zuki any sort of credit or preference over JL..... :laugh: 

But I understand you completely. Obviously there's a thin line between preference & nut hugging. The truth is often ugly. I have plenty respect for what JL offers as well as a lot of other companies, but I can honestly say if they don't necessarily have something in their lineup for me, then it just isn't for me. 


I remember long ago before I even joined (I was involved in another site), DIYMA was all about actual DIY utilizing raw drivers, various amps, and available processing (which was sort of limited at the time). I've been doing most of that for years even before I noticed there was a DIYMA. That's not going to change! In fact, it defeats the purpose of DIY somewhat as all you wind up doing is install differences. Though the raw market shrinks, I'm still avid in that while dipping into prefab every once in a while. Brand loyalty and all of that alike represents something else to me which I will hold my tongue on. This thread has been interesting enough, but it's time for me to bow out. 

Peace!


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

jimmyjames16 said:


> Like I said .. the XD's would be a great amp on mid-bass and sub's.


Any particular reason you don't like the XD's on comps or tweets?


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

PPI_GUY said:


> Any particular reason you don't like the XD's on comps or tweets?


Yeah.. I don't know how to put my finger on it.. but if I could.. it sounds kinda generic on highs.. not as warm or transparent than my Series III Class A bias Four Channel , Zuki (there I go again..ha), or my Soundstreams Ref's. It sounds good to very good... but I wouldn't classify them to be SQ amps. 

They do the job well. Maybe with some more tuning I could make my system sound better.. but again... Im using Pioneer top of the line speakers that you can buy at Best Buy or Amazon... so with that said maybe they can sound better on someone else's speakers in a different setup... I don't know. 

The best part about the XD's for me is that it doesn't drain my electrical system.. at all. After going through a couple of dead alternators from prior setups.. I swore spending another $500 for another alternator installed wasn't going to happen in my future setups. I'm happy.. JL has impressed me.


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## SoulMan76 (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm running a set of scanspeak d3004-6020-00 tweeters off of my xd600/6 and think they sound great with them. Its my first active SQ type system. Most of my older systems were spl type systems that I ran many moons ago. The tweets may sound different with a good a/b type amp, and I hope to try out a few different amps eventually, but I am impressed with the XD amps as well.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

SoulMan76 said:


> I'm running a set of scanspeak d3004-6020-00 tweeters off of my xd600/6 and think they sound great with them. Its my first active SQ type system. Most of my older systems were spl type systems that I ran many moons ago. The tweets may sound different with a good a/b type amp, and I hope to try out a few different amps eventually, but I am impressed with the XD amps as well.


I recommend a McIntosh, Zuki, or Mosconi for your tweets and mids


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## SoulMan76 (Aug 20, 2012)

WestCo said:


> I recommend a McIntosh, Zuki, or Mosconi for your tweets and mids [/QUOTE
> 
> I would love to try at least one of those brands eventually(really like the masconis). Right now its just the $$$ keeping me from trying different gear at the moment.


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

WestCo said:


> I recommend a McIntosh, Zuki, or Mosconi for your tweets and mids


I agree... I hear Mosconi sounds almost similar to the Zuki..?.. 

Where does one go to buy Mosconi amps?


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

I would post a WTB thread... I am 2/2 on hard to find gear on here. Average wait time before purchase = 1.5 days


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

I would seriously consider buying it used. Because BNIB looses a lot of value as soon as it leaves said box...


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## Rusty (Aug 29, 2012)

Any word yet on the JL 10/12tw3s?


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

jimmyjames16 said:


> I agree... I hear Mosconi sounds almost similar to the Zuki..?..
> 
> Where does one go to buy Mosconi amps?


I have the perfect amp for your tweeters a tru t2.200


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

jimmyjames16 said:


> Yeah.. I don't know how to put my finger on it.. but if I could.. it sounds kinda generic on highs.. not as warm or transparent than my Series III Class A bias Four Channel , Zuki (there I go again..ha), or my Soundstreams Ref's. It sounds good to very good... but I wouldn't classify them to be SQ amps.
> 
> They do the job well. Maybe with some more tuning I could make my system sound better.. but again... Im using Pioneer top of the line speakers that you can buy at Best Buy or Amazon... so with that said maybe they can sound better on someone else's speakers in a different setup... I don't know.
> 
> The best part about the XD's for me is that it doesn't drain my electrical system.. at all. After going through a couple of dead alternators from prior setups.. I swore spending another $500 for another alternator installed wasn't going to happen in my future setups. I'm happy.. JL has impressed me.


I assume you are running an active setup?

Agree completely with you on the low electrical demands of the XD amps. I have swapped a XD600/1 out with a PPI 2150AM a couple of times and the difference in current demand is very noticeable. Of course the PPI is an old class a/b amp running at 2 ohm stereo and the XD is newer class D. I seem to get alittle more impact from the XD600/1 as well. Must be the difference in efficency.


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## jimmyjames16 (Dec 12, 2006)

PPI_GUY said:


> I assume you are running an active setup?
> 
> Agree completely with you on the low electrical demands of the XD amps. I have swapped a XD600/1 out with a PPI 2150AM a couple of times and the difference in current demand is very noticeable. Of course the PPI is an old class a/b amp running at 2 ohm stereo and the XD is newer class D. I seem to get alittle more impact from the XD600/1 as well. Must be the difference in efficency.


Not active... later I will fabricate new pods for my Exclusives or maybe some Hybrid Audio speakers

... just front and rear co-axial's and a 12" Dayton Reference sub sealed .. easy


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## fast4door (Aug 2, 2012)

I have had several JL subs and always go back to them when I stray. I just purchased a 13TW5 to try in my truck since I hav e very litle space and will hit it with a Zapco referance 1100.1 .


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

fast4door said:


> I have had several JL subs and always go back to them when I stray. I just purchased a 13TW5 to try in my truck since I hav e very litle space and will hit it with a Zapco referance 1100.1 .


You're going to love it! I've done tons of installs with the TW5 and have always been impressed.


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## Randyman... (Oct 7, 2012)

Just swapped my Slash 450/4 and 300/2 with a pair of used HD600/4's. So far so good! Smaller, lighter, pull less current, run cooler, have 450 more watts on-tap, and can't tell any difference in SQ! An absolute no-brainer IMNSHO...


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

We need a w8 jl audio, hurry up with it please.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Richv72 said:


> We need a w8 jl audio, hurry up with it please.


Why?


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## luisc202 (Oct 29, 2013)

I have been a JL fan since 92 so yes I love their products. Been using a couple of their products ever since. Probably there are a lot of good or better products out there but I am happy with JL and what I have used. 

I currently own the following and always buy more .

3 8W7 in my Tundra
3 8w3v3
2 10tw3
2 10w7- Sold 
2 12w7 - In my Accord
2 12w0v3
2 10w6v3 - In My infiniti M
1 12w6v2

2- HD600/4
2- HD900/5
1 HD1200/1
1 HD750/1
2 JL 500/1 slash


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## Mahna Mahna (Mar 2, 2008)

Big fan of the JL XD line

Currently have the XD600/1 powering my 12" ID MAX and the XD 600/6 bridged running my Hertz MLK's.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

sure! 
(13tw5v2-2)


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## audijay (Mar 18, 2014)

had 3 10w0's in a ford probe hatchback running on an old school ppi275

had 3 10w3s in a lexus is300, sounded good but not as loud as the hatchback

Have a 13w7 waiting to be put in a ported box tuned to 28-30hz, going in the back of my audi


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## Boomintahoe (Apr 1, 2009)

Used to own 2 15w3's when they 1st came out. Had a single 10w3, 12w6, and I got a original 8w3 in my garage somewhere. But when it comes to amps, I won't touch I just can't fathom the fact that no matter the ohm load, the wattage stays the same. Guess I'm just used to the lower the impedance, the more watts you get. A lot of people will hate on JL...a lot will love it as nuthuggin. The reality is JL Audio has been around a long time.


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