# Leased car install.



## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

So I was thinking of doing an install when I lease a car. However I want to do one where nothing Oem is touched. For instance a tablet to processor to amps. Essentially bypassing the Oem headunit and speakers. Power wires would go straight from the battery to amps/processor. Sub would have to be easily removable and dash speakers in enclosures easily removable. I don't think doors are doable as I would be altering them. Maybe I could do 4" mids on the dash with tweeter semi coaxial mount. 

Does this sound realistic?


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

I won`t touch leased car, if you can accomplish speakers install without cutting into factory surfaces then why not.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

Victor_inox said:


> I won`t touch leased car, if you can accomplish speakers install without cutting into factory surfaces then why not.


In a lot of respects I get that as I am on the fence about it myself. I think 4" mid bass might be wimpy, but maybe not in the proper enclosure. You see a lot of home audio installs where the tweeter is mounted in front of the midbass semi coaxial style. The one problem I have is not leaving any noticeable traces when I bring it in for inspections at the dealership.

Has anyone made any buildlogs of leased cars?


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Pardon my ignorance I never leased vehicle before, do you have to bring it to dealership for inspections?


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## jdunk54nl (Apr 25, 2015)

You shouldn't have to take it to the dealership for any inspections except the final one when (if) you turn in the keys. You always have the option of buying or trading in the car as well (if it is a normal car lease anyway). You can do whatever you want as long as the vehicle can be returned to "factory." Most dealerships however aren't going to check out the speakers as they care more about dents/dirt in the car. If you improve on the value of the car, the dealerships are generally going to care even less as now they can sell the car for more, but that might vary by dealership/lease. Really as long as the speakers work with the factory radio, and you don't mind losing those speakers, you would be fine. 

My choice however would be to run new wire into the door/tweeter locations from the amps and keep all of the factory wiring in place, buy/build the speaker mount brackets and just put the factory speakers in a box to replace when the lease ends. If you don't break anything, which you shouldn't, then you are good to go. This wouldn't void anything as nobody would ever know if you replace all of the factory speakers in the end and pull all of the wires. Subs would be easy as long as you don't get a custom box made just for that car.


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## asoggysponge (May 14, 2013)

jdunk54nl said:


> You shouldn't have to take it to the dealership for any inspections except the final one when (if) you turn in the keys. You always have the option of buying or trading in the car as well (if it is a normal car lease anyway). You can do whatever you want as long as the vehicle can be returned to "factory." Most dealerships however aren't going to check out the speakers as they care more about dents/dirt in the car. If you improve on the value of the car, the dealerships are generally going to care even less as now they can sell the car for more, but that might vary by dealership/lease. Really as long as the speakers work with the factory radio, and you don't mind losing those speakers, you would be fine.
> 
> My choice however would be to run new wire into the door/tweeter locations from the amps and keep all of the factory wiring in place, buy/build the speaker mount brackets and just put the factory speakers in a box to replace when the lease ends. If you don't break anything, which you shouldn't, then you are good to go. This wouldn't void anything as nobody would ever know if you replace all of the factory speakers in the end and pull all of the wires. Subs would be easy as long as you don't get a custom box made just for that car.


Pretty much this. I work at a dealership and am considering the same thing you are. As long as everything can be returned to stock, you won't have a problem. You can do door speakers and replace tweeters and whatever else you want as long as you don't trim, splice, gouge, maim or destroy anything that is stock to the vehicle. 

Returning it looking factory is one thing, returning it exactly factory is another. If there is any issue with the vehicle while the next owner has it and they trace it back to something you altered it will be on you.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

What if you return it with the aftermarket audio installed? Can they still trace it back to you if say the new leader blows the aftermarket subwoofer?


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## asoggysponge (May 14, 2013)

You are more than welcome to return it with aftermarket components, however, it decreases the value of the car. If you were leasing a Toyota that held its value to the point where they gave you a grand in trade, this might be negated. If the next owner runs into trouble with whatever you installed you can be held accountable, but this varies and I can't give you a definite "if the next guy blows the sub you're in trouble". The dealership prefers the vehicle to be returned in stock condition.


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## jdunk54nl (Apr 25, 2015)

If you turn it in as the "end the lease" option then yea, you could get docked. If you use the "trade it in option" just like you would trade in any car you own, which your lease should allow for because you can purchase the car at the end of your lease and then trade it in, then you trade it in as is to the dealership. Any issue that you caused the dealership has now taken on the responsibility of with the trade in (unless they have an agreement saying otherwise).

Depending on the car's value at the time your lease ends, the trade in value might be worth it as it might be a couple grand over what the lease end buy out price is. If it is a couple grand under the lease buy out price then I would throw the dealership the keys and say see ya but then you are liable for any damages/changes to the vehicle per the lease agreement.


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## nanohead (Oct 21, 2013)

I've leased dozens of cars, and there is no consistent answer to many of these issues. Depending on who financed it (manufacturer or independent finance company/bank), the rules can be different. At minimum, the car needs to returned looking stock, and functioning correctly. Usually, the lease companies hire independent return inspectors, whereas the manufacturers mostly rely on the dealer to inspect, however this is definitely NOT always the case. I've returned cars to dealers where the manufacturer actually had an independent inspector.

Many leases have language about modifications. The people who claimed that if the car malfunctions with the next owner after the lease return, its on you, that is not really true, nor realistic. 

I've done installs in a few leased cars, and just simply pulled out all the good stuff and reinstalled the OEM stuff when I was gonna return it. I always keep all the OEM stuff for leases, and NEVER cut anything. You can do quite a complex installation that can be simply removed without scarring the car at all. I've done it probably 10 times or more.

I've even pulled trim panels off and run wires front to back, then reversed the process when it was time to return and the car was as good as new.

As far as the head unit, if you use a normal (metra type) harness adapter, as well as installation bezel, and don't cut anything, it shouldn't matter, as long as you return it to stock when you return it.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

nanohead said:


> I've leased dozens of cars, and there is no consistent answer to many of these issues. Depending on who financed it (manufacturer or independent finance company/bank), the rules can be different. At minimum, the car needs to returned looking stock, and functioning correctly. Usually, the lease companies hire independent return inspectors, whereas the manufacturers mostly rely on the dealer to inspect, however this is definitely NOT always the case. I've returned cars to dealers where the manufacturer actually had an independent inspector.
> 
> Many leases have language about modifications. The people who claimed that if the car malfunctions with the next owner after the lease return, its on you, that is not really true, nor realistic.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input... So should that be a negotiating point when shopping for a lease? I mean getting them to loosen up on the return condition or the modifications?


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## joeymc13 (Dec 24, 2010)

What kind of car are you leasing? That would give us a better idea of what mods you could actually do to it, and still be able to return it to stock...


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

joeymc13 said:


> What kind of car are you leasing? That would give us a better idea of what mods you could actually do to it, and still be able to return it to stock...


Haven't narrowed it down yet. Most likely a sedan for better fuel efficiency.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

If you haven't leased it yet, then don't... but just buy it and do all the mods to your heart's content! A leased car is pretty much like a rental car (no mods). Or lease one with a real fancy factory stereo that you don't have to modify (ha ha if there's such a thing for this DIYMA crowd here).


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## nanohead (Oct 21, 2013)

Ultimateherts said:


> Thanks for the input... So should that be a negotiating point when shopping for a lease? I mean getting them to loosen up on the return condition or the modifications?


There's nothing wrong with leasing at all. Its cheaper from a cash flow standpoint, and 95% of the time, they're not that picky how you return the car. For many years, about as many cars were leased as actually purchased with financing, but it all changed in 2008 when the financial crisis happened.

Personally, I think you're worrying about it too much  . As long as you don't cut anything, or do any visible mutilation, it doesn't matter. Its a car, not a kidney. There's nearly nothing that can't be reversed in a normal audio install. 

As far as negotiating, there is no negotiating. These are canned legal documents, the dealers have zero ability to negotiate. The finance company won't negotiate anything. Millions of cars are leased every year, and the whole affair is automated. This is how they approve you in minutes.

Don't overthink it.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Leasing a car can be an excellent option, especially if the car has a high residual value.

Leasing is also great if you own a business because you can lease the car through your business and make the payments with pre-tax dollars. It improves your purchasing power by your income tax rate.


As long as you can return the car in OEM condition, with reasonable wear for age, then you will have no problems.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

My perspective is very simple if you can`t afford to buy it outright don`t buy it at all.
that unless you driving just a few miles a day and don`t expect that to change. 
lease is a waste of money, you basically renting car ou but unlike rental you responsible for maintenance (tires,brakes, oil changes, full coverage insurance,etc.) 
or if you absolutely have to have new model every 3 years.
modern low miles lease is pathetic. cost is always double of what advertised after you take into consideration taxes,fees. buy one with 0 APR if you have to finance it of low rate if cash is a problem. Only if you can make more on say money market with your money, if not pay cash and do what you want with YOUR property.


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## asoggysponge (May 14, 2013)

Victor_inox said:


> My perspective is very simple if you can`t afford to buy it outright don`t buy it at all.
> that unless you driving just a few miles a day and don`t expect that to change.
> lease is a waste of money, you basically renting car ou but unlike rental you responsible for maintenance (tires,brakes, oil changes, full coverage insurance,etc.)
> or if you absolutely have to have new model every 3 years.
> modern low miles lease is pathetic. cost is always double of what advertised after you take into consideration taxes,fees. buy one with 0 APR if you have to finance it of low rate if cash is a problem. Only if you can make more on say money market with your money, if not pay cash and do what you want with YOUR property.


There are many options at the end of a lease and you don't always lose money. I don't have a high enough credit line, not credit score, to finance a new or used vehicle, but I do with a lease. Three years of that and I'll be able to purchase a car. Buying outright simply is not an option for many people. Most lease agreements cover basic maintenance and offer many benefits for first time buyers. 

Is it the best way to go? Probably not. But it isn't some terrible idea. You just have to watch your rate and residual and make educated decisions. It's not for everyone, and if I could buy a car I would, but FOR ME, this is the best option.


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## nanohead (Oct 21, 2013)

From car audio, to auto financing... Hilarious

Leasing doesn't cost more, in fact, it can cost less from a personal cash flow perspective. Cars depreciate so heavily, and there's such a massive inventory of used cars, that leasing is often smarter depending on what you're trying to accomplish. We have a number of cars in my family right now, several are leased, and the rest are owned outright. 

When I got out of college, I had the exact same issue, which was I could get a "new grad" lease, but had no down payment, nor the credit for a loan. I actually leased our primary family cars for probably 20 years, and bought my personal cars used. The couple of times I actually "bought" a car proper, large down payment, plus a loan, I always regretted it big time. The amount of money it cost from cash out of pocket over time was insane compared to a comparable lease, which always ended up costing me less actual personal cash out of pocket over time.

This isn't always the case, but in my case, I'll never do an auto loan again, ever. Often, the car loans become huge monthly burdens, which you're always underwater on, right from day one. Almost everyone I know who has a car loan, wants to get out of it early because the car is out of warranty and has service problems, or it drinks too much gas, or they have another kid, or whatever. And while you can sell it, you get murdered.... Leases aren't perfect either, and you can't get out of them easily either, and for some period of time, you're totally underwater as well. But you can sell the car and pay off the lease, and more often than not, the leasing company will negotiate an early out, or a lower payoff. Depends on the leasing company, but I've done this numerous times (VW, Chrysler, Mercedes, Acura, Audi).


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

New age mentality- everyone deserve a new car- sure. reason you people always broke.
You waste you money making others wealthy. 
you sign up for 10000 miles a year lease for 200 a month only to realise that you own few grand at the end of the lease so you basically forced to buy it. they will happily finance you for another 5 years to make even more money out of you. 
I`ve seen that on my own wife example before we met. I calculated how much money she wasted , how many new shoes she could buy instead and she agreed.
as they say your mileage may vary. my point is that be smart about it, make informed decisions. take paperwork home, read it through, don` worry they will keep your car for you for one more day.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

I always believed that a lease was for people so full of themselves that they had to have a new car every 3 years, (and there are a lot of you out there) so the banks and dealerships made a provision to suck that customer demographic dry.

I hadn't thought about it in terms of establishing credit worth so that a purchase three years later could happen on good terms.

just goes to show what you can learn, on the internets.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

cajunner said:


> I always believed that a lease was for people so full of themselves that they had to have a new car every 3 years, (and there are a lot of you out there) so the banks and dealerships made a provision to suck that customer demographic dry.
> 
> I hadn't thought about it in terms of establishing credit worth so that a purchase three years later could happen on good terms.
> 
> just goes to show what you can learn, on the internets.



I don`t believe in that story, prior to 97 I`ve had zero credit history.
in 1997 friend of mine added me to his credit card account established in 91.
now my credit history shows as established in 91 and credit score of 820, I paid zero dollars of interest to any credit card accounts during those years. 
If you fukd up your credit and need to recover then maybe it`s a valid option but in general I agree with caj, rich people and who live beyond their means Is primary target. I`m not poor guy due to money management skills not because I make more then average guy here.


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## 1styearsi (Aug 13, 2012)

correct this if you want.
back when i worked at a cadillac/pontiac dealer you could do a 2 year lease on a cadillac then buy it at the end of the lease.if you added up the 2k down of whatever it was to the 2 years of lease payments then the cost to purchase the car at the end of the lease you actually saved thousands....that said i never leased a car i just buy them.
i am a Honda/GM guy but i bought a used LOADED 2006 PT loser gt turbo H.O. back in 2007 it had 13k miles on it the original win sticker price was almost 29k.
i paid 16k.
maybe someone turned in a lease early? or the first owner took a hell of a hit!!!


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## jdunk54nl (Apr 25, 2015)

Leases have changed a lot over the past years, here is how most current leases are handled.

When you actually sign the lease, you negotiate the selling price just like you do when buying a car. The dealership then calculates the residual value of the car depending on the miles driven and length of time. That equates to your payment, they want you to turn in the car at or below (preferably on their part not on yours) that residual value so they can still make a profit when they go and sell it. Whatever that residual value is at the end, you also have the option of buying the car for which again is negotiated from the very beginning, just like if you really did buy it. You really aren't losing anything on the car because ideally that is what you would pay for a used identical car anyway if you decide to buy at that time the lease ends. All of your payments, etc that you paid over the course of the lease are all deducted from that original negotiated price. 

Leasing has its upsides and downsides. Upside are you might find out your car is worth less after three years and you end up coming out ahead of the game. New technology/fuel efficiency comes out and you have the option of getting that better car for around the same price. You build your credit history. You pay less each month for the same vehicle because they aren't expecting you to pay off the car in 3-5 years, only to the residual value. 

Really the only downside is if you do decide to buy the vehicle after the lease term, you are going to owe more on it compared to if you bought it and paid for it that same amount of time. But you didn't pay nearly as much so it really is just a wash in the end. Your payment will generally go up at the end to make up for the difference in the amount the lease has paid off and what you would have paid off if you just bought outright.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

A lot of creative mumbo jumbo to swing you over a lease option....... what good for stealer is bad for consumer. End of story. They called stealers for a reason.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

Victor_inox said:


> A lot of creative mumbo jumbo to swing you over a lease option....... what good for stealer is bad for consumer. End of story. They called stealers for a reason.


Yah what some people do is buy a car then pay for it with their credit card because the interest rate is lower. Also they could even sell the car outright if needed as they own it!


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## nanohead (Oct 21, 2013)

Victor_inox said:


> A lot of creative mumbo jumbo to swing you over a lease option....... what good for stealer is bad for consumer. End of story. They called stealers for a reason.


Not defending the dealers at all, but you do realize whether its leased, financed, or purchased outright, the dealer gets the same amount of money.

As far as the dealer is concerned, they don't care how they get paid.

Not sure what the source of your comment is, as people buy 16 million cars a year, and they're not all dead from the dealer experience. Not in love with the whole dealer experience, but cars all come from the dealer when they're new. No other way to get em


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

You can believe anything you want , I have friends in car sales business, there is always "incentives" or sorts from manufacturer from banks, credit unions,etc. You place of work might be different but that is as much as you can be sure if that.

Americans hate car shopping so much they'd rather give up sex and do taxes
google it, you don`t have to take my word for it. small percentage enjoy negotiating over price,terms,etc... THat`s explains Carmax success and more dealers going same route now. Dealers hate what internet brought to their business. Accessibility to information previously hidden from consumers. I Select a car I want, create account on internet forum, ask direct question how much people paid for model with exact options, take average price from 3 best and asking dealer close to me to call me when he ready to match that price. in 5 vehicles I bought in the last 3 years all 5 was within 100 bucks of my researched price.
I`m fair, I don`t mind paying what it worth but no more.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

Next question is a two part question: I do not have the factory speakers the factory harness has been cut and the factory radio is missing the volume knob,

How much less do you get for your car without any audio?

vs

Trading or selling with an after market working stereo?


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## jdunk54nl (Apr 25, 2015)

If you are solely trading it in and not buying/leasing anything then to a dealer, it makes a huge difference because most consumers do not want to buy a car without a working stereo, I wouldn't even consider a car without a radio even if I planned on putting a different radio in. That means the dealer will have to install one or discount the car. If you are selling private party it doesn't really matter but you aren't going to get KBB or NADA out of it, I'd expect a $1000 or $2000 (depending on the difficulty of getting a radio installed by someone not self install) less due to that. I would look into just installing a cheapo walmart radio where everything costs a total of $100

If you are trading in to the dealer to buy a new car they are going to care much less. They want to sell you a car because they earn money that way. Even if they sell it to you for invoice or "under invoice" they will always earn money. There are a ton of incentives on the dealer side of things for just selling a car. It also depends on if the dealer is even going to keep the trade on lot or if they are just going to auction it off. 

Either way the dealership will try to screw you over on trade but you would be better off arguing with a working radio compared to not having anything.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

I haven't removed a door panel in ten years now.

I own all my cars, but I'm a cheapskate, and putting a stereo in a car generally lowers the ROI.

All of my systems live side-by-side with the stock stereo. That's why you always see me doing these weird midbass setups with sealed fiberglass boxes and the like.

For my current setup I'm kinda excited to try a midbass array of 3D printed enclosures. I printed my first set of spheres yesterday and found that they're exceptionally strong for their size and weight, much much stronger than a wooden box or a steel car door. I can't compress the enclosure even a little bit. The same can't be said for a car door; even a modest amount of pressure will flex a steel car door.

TLDR: Go for it! And consider midbass arrays.


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## jb4674 (Jan 29, 2015)

Patrick Bateman said:


> I haven't removed a door panel in ten years now.
> 
> I own all my cars, but I'm a cheapskate, and putting a stereo in a car generally lowers the ROI.


There is no ROI with a car. Anyone who thinks otherwise lives in fantasy land.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

A car is not an investment. It's a tool.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Like tool can't be an investment.


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