# Old School SQ amp or New School SQ Amp



## jester (Jun 1, 2011)

Hello Everybody,

I recently upgraded my component speakers and rear speakers. I hav been running an Xtant x604 amp on them. For whatever reason my started to fail... And, nobody wants to attempt to repair it. I am running Focal 165VRS and 130CVX speakers. 

I am in search on recommendations on whether to try and find another old school amp or bite the bullet and buy a new school... Any recommendations will be greatly appreciated.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Buying used, old school gear runs the risk of having issues depending on age and how it was used prior to your receiving it.

New amplifiers will at least have a warranty and most online retailers have some sort of exchange policy in the event that you are not satisfied. Sure, they will charge you a restocking fee, but it is better than being SOL if you have problems with a used old school piece of gear.

With that typed, what is your budget?


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## jester (Jun 1, 2011)

I am looking to spend $400 or less. I am looking for clean power too. no processors and such if possible.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

I had an Xtant x604 about 10 years ago. While it was a great amp, I liked my old Zapco C250C4-SL more. I like the old school stuff for their overbuiltness and simple finned designs, but even though the new amps aren't as overbuilt, a good new amp thats more powerful than you need will sound and perform great while offering the advantages of new technology and warranty.


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## jester (Jun 1, 2011)

As you guys can tell it's been a while since i needed to buy one. Any recommendations?


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

Wow theres so many choices. If youre not opposed to Class D amps, I highly recommend the JL XD600/6. Bridge the first 4 channels for plenty of clean power to your comps and run the rears off 5 & 6. It also saves a ton of space, especially compared top the xtant.
If space is not an issue, the Soundstream Reference and PPI PC amps are great and can be had for under $400, but as mentioned they need some room. 
I also have some BNIB Zapco ST4 & ST2 amps for sale that would be great. Bridge the ST4 for the comps and run the rears off the ST2. Their also very small so you'll save space while still running Zapco Class AB goodness.


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## asota (Feb 7, 2011)

PPI A2150's(A600) or PC 2150's are on eBay all the time for around $200 price fluctuates on condition and season. These are every bit as good or better than a new $600 SQ amp just not as pretty and don't have a warrenty that you really are paying a couple hundred for.


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## jester (Jun 1, 2011)

i like the sounds of the zapco amps. From what i hear from some people they still hold their value. 

I tried one of the PPI reference amps in a friends car and it died in three days. PPI replaced it... but i don't want to go through that. 

Are there models of the new amps that don't have any of the processing stuff built into them?


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

Most amps have crossovers in them, but they can be bypassed.
Of you want the Zapcos, let me know and I'll give you a deal on buying both.


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## bmiller1 (Mar 7, 2010)

Old school goodness. Good price. Looks like great condition. Used to have one when I was younger. Might have been the best amp I've ever owned.

Soundstream 405s Car Power Amp Clean Condition! | eBay


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

You can get some good used amplifers online. Here and eBay. Zapco amps seem to be bullet proof. I have purchased a few dozen Zapco amps from ebay for the last 10 years. Every one peformed flawless. You can pick up the Studio series amps(I would do two Z150) or Refrence series 1000.4 cheap. Spend a little more and get the DC or C2K amps. Beware of noisy cooling fans. 

With your budget used is your best choice to get some good amps.


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## ryan s (Dec 19, 2006)

His ~10 year old amp is failing and people are recommending amps twice as old? :laugh:

Without wanting any kind of processing, your car's environment is putting you at a huge disadvantage...

An XD400/4 should be right around $400 and the 600/6 may or may not be locatable for $400...either won't take up your whole trunk...or suck your electrical system dry...


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

The whole processing thing doesn't matter much on modern SQ amplifiers since most contain crossovers that are 100% defeatable. Unfortunately, my experience with buying old school gear when I was in my nostalgia phase caused me to end up with two types of products: those that had problems or those that developed problems.

Granted on most of them, the problems were simple for one who had a soldering station as they were just capacitor related. I had one rare exception on an Orion that had the JFETS in the turn on delay circuit fail.


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## jester (Jun 1, 2011)

Are the new amps able to take a beating like the old school ones?? I like my music loud and need the amp to keep up with it.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

jester said:


> Are the new amps able to take a beating like the old school ones?? I like my music loud and need the amp to keep up with it.


Some do but you have to pay good money for those... 

Ok, if you want to buy an amp that can last more than 3 years and still beat on it when you feel like then I suggest you find some amps that are 1 ohm stable in stereo. A few examples: 
Ultimate A4 - The Big Four, 4 x 85 Watt 
Mosconi - AS100.4 
Helix Competition A4 
PRODOTTI - if you can find those... 
Rockford Fosgate® - T800-4ad
http://www.audison.eu/index_main.php?Section=THQUATTRO

Since the above amps can play down to 1 ohm in stereo ; they would just be cruising if you use them @ 4 ohm... 

Kelvin


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

New school, what happens when the next 10+ year old amp fails and you have another paper weight? Money wasted, at least with new you get a warranty to protect you.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

subwoofery said:


> Some do but you have to pay good money for those...
> 
> Ok, if you want to buy an amp that can last more than 3 years and still beat on it when you feel like then I suggest you find some amps that are 1 ohm stable in stereo. A few examples:
> Ultimate A4 - The Big Four, 4 x 85 Watt
> ...


I would also add the boston GT amps to that list! I also second the RF T amps. (considering budget) I have tried to beat the snot out of both and they are ROCK solid. I would not waste my money on old school myself. Like many others, I have been down that road for the sake of nostalgia.... PLENTY of new great amps.


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## ryan s (Dec 19, 2006)

From reading around, it seems the Rockfords still have the "Punch EQ" on the new models. I was hoping they didn't, or that setting the XO to flat/pass would defeat them...



> The Punch EQ on-board equalization circuit helps correct for these acoustical deficiencies in the listening environment. When set to Low-Pass(LP) operation, it becomes a variable Bass Boost. When set to High-Pass (HP) operation, it acts as a variable Mid-Bass and Treble Boost. When set to All Pass (AP) operation, both Bass and Treble frequencies are boosted.


Shame, too, since their AD/BD series look nice under the hood...


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

Boston is not a bad amp but not worth the retail price. If you go retail spend a little more and get the Zapco DC1000.4. You can always defeat the DSP functions but I would take advantage of what it has to offer. 

Here are some deals on New Boston amps but I am sure there is no warranty other than DOA. One of them says 2 year warranty but you will find 30 days or so after purchase you will never be able to reach them again or contact info is no good. Your warranty is with ebay and paypal.

GT42
Boston Acoustics GT-42 Car Amplifier | eBay

Boston-Acoustics GT42 4 CHANNEL AMP (Boston GT-42). | eBay

GT4100
2011 BOSTON GT4100 AMPLIFIER CAR AMP 4-CHANNEL+2YR WRNT | eBay

GT-4100 BOSTON ACOUSTICS 4CH SPEAKER AMP 900W AMPLIFIER | eBay


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Well I completely disagree with bostons not being worth the retail tag but thats not the point. I would also decide if you have room for a surfboard or not?

I know where you can get a GREAT deal on the gt2200 and gt275


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## jimmys91 (Nov 28, 2009)

I 3rd that the boston GT amps are SUPER value, the GT20, GT22, and GT24 are all super amps built and design by same build house as Mosconi/audio systems. GT20 can be had for $75 to $100, GT24 for around $200. 
If my Soundstream D series give me problems i will be replacing with the BA GT's for sure.


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## jester (Jun 1, 2011)

Woah!!! I didn't realize Boston Acoustics were still in the retail business. I know for a while I couldn't find anything from them except for their old stock. I will definitely give them a look over!!!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Well for $300 I can give you 200x2 to your front stage and 75x2 to your rears via boston GT2200 and GT275. VERY small package and TONS of clean power! The 2200 is beating the snot out of my two subs right now (900x1)


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

Let me rephrase my statement. If were a DIYI, going to buy a new Boston amp, and had only $400, I would purchase it for 1/2 the price before I would pay retail. Warrany would be the only reason I would buy otherwise. This amp is a good amp so a warranty claim most likely won't be an issue. 

I had a GT42. I think I got a whooping $200 out of it when I sold it used and I paid retail.

As far as the surfboard, With power comes size.

Not to get off subject, One thing I don't understand is how can these companies sell the amps for more than 1/2 the price and make money? Why don't the manufactures set advertising limits to prevent such discounting to protect the store front retailer or is it just about the numbers?


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

MrMoto said:


> Let me rephrase my statement. If were a DIYI, going to buy a new Boston amp, and had only $400, I would purchase it for 1/2 the price before I would pay retail. Warrany would be the only reason I would buy otherwise. This amp is a good amp so a warranty claim most likely won't be an issue.
> 
> I had a GT42. I think I got a whooping $200 out of it when I sold it used and I paid retail.
> 
> ...


Well you, like many others on here (not sure how this became "diy") are willing to roll the dice on grey goods from shady retailers....GOOD for you! Good luck. I have been burnt before and will never try it again, I support the local dealers the best I can and in the process I support the brand I am buying from. Resale for a used item vs. retail price is a pointless observation unless your sole goal is to buy something hoping to resell it? 
The power=size is just foolish, sorry. Your going to need some validity to that statement otherwise its nothing more then an ignorant theory! 
Those zapco's are not more powerful then the GT's and thats just a fact. I am not saying they are the best amps ever made or anything like that. Just seperating fact from brand/religion myths!

For the record, manufacturers do try and prevent third party sales (grey sales online). However it is very hard to do and cost money and time to focus on going after them. Soundstream has become very vigilant in trying to focus on this and you will notice there are a few internet whores that are no longer able to get there hands on the label.


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

Sorry Jester. Didn't intend to stray off topic. 

I will use PMs from here on out.


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

I would do the JL XD700/5. One amp, good power, small footprint and easy on a stock electrical system.


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## Stillmatic29 (Jan 3, 2011)

I have an Soundstream Van Gogh 800.5 in excellent condition. Used for nearly 6 months for sale. Shoot me a PM.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

ryan s said:


> His ~10 year old amp is failing and people are recommending amps twice as old? :laugh: ...



That's because people who have common sense realize just because an amp is old, it doesn't mean it won't last. Age doesn't mean anything.

Not to mention, you can get a better sounding product for a lower price in comparison. Also, most amps that do develop issues can be resolved with a small repair.


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## AlpineJuba (Dec 10, 2009)

What's wrong with the Xtant? If you can't get it fixed locally, you need better repair guys.


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## ryan s (Dec 19, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> That's because people who have common sense realize just because an amp is old, it doesn't mean it won't last. Age doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Not to mention, you can get a better sounding product for a lower price in comparison. Also, most amps that do develop issues can be resolved with a small repair.


You so silly, Jimmay :laugh:

Anyone with common sense would know that amp tech has advanced leaps and bounds in the last 20 years.



AlpineJuba said:


> What's wrong with the Xtant? If you can't get it fixed locally, you need better repair guys.


They used...uhh..."particular" parts if I remember right. Something to do with matching output transistors not being readily available, perhaps? So you cook one and all 20 need updating.


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## AlpineJuba (Dec 10, 2009)

I've had a couple of mine fixed by Sam @ Rubicon in the past...he's always come through with parts, and at reasonable cost.

Rubicon Electronics Inc - Tarzana - Tarzana, CA


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## jester (Jun 1, 2011)

I have found out that when companies are selling amps for less is that they are cutting corners somewhere. Whether the board is 2 ply when it should be 3 ply. Cheaper resistors and capacitors. 

I was always told for a good amp you should be paying about a $1.00 a watt.


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## jester (Jun 1, 2011)

The left rear channel is not working at all. And I can't see any bad resistors.

There is a 3 month turn around if I send it out... And nobody locally wants to touch it.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

jester said:


> The left rear channel is not working at all. And I can't see any bad resistors.
> 
> There is a 3 month turn around if I send it out... And nobody locally wants to touch it.


3 month turn around? Who did you call? There are very reputable repair centers available that will fix your amp for a reasonable cost and fast.

Call TIPS - Linear Power Inc. - For The Love Of Music


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## Razz2o4 (Jan 23, 2011)

You might want to try contacting El_bob_o I know he had a 603 I bought from him, had a few issues, and I sent it off to Cali to get repaired. He might have it back, and ready for resale again.


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## jester (Jun 1, 2011)

Yo guys!!! I found someone that is relatively close to me to repair my amp!!!!! If you guys need any work done check him out!!!

Customer FAQ : EnvisionElec.net, Welcome to Envision Electronics!


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## daveds50 (Jun 10, 2011)

or... you can sell the amp to me. i have a use for it.


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## jester (Jun 1, 2011)

I have it listed on ebay at the moment. it's the only xtant there or send me a pm.


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## daveds50 (Jun 10, 2011)

jester said:


> I have it listed on ebay at the moment. it's the only xtant there or send me a pm.


 eh, nevermind. not worth that much. last one i bought broken was $60 shipped. 

they are actually cheap and easy to fix though... not sure why you are having trouble finding someone to fix it.


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## jester (Jun 1, 2011)

the amp is only 9 months old i bought it brand new.


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## DuggrHarryRussell (Sep 29, 2019)

jester said:


> I am looking to spend $400 or less. I am looking for clean power too. no processors and such if possible.


it is right decision


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