# JBL MS-2



## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

It's a 2-channel autotune designed to be inserted in the signal chain between a portable player (iPod) and an auxiliary input jack. There's a microphone in the top, so you plug it in, hold it in front of your face, press and hold "Setup" wait about 5 seconds for the sweeps and it tunes the car. 

The target curve is very similar to MS-8's. One setup is complete, you can adjust the level of the bass shelf in three steps (Bass control), the width of the transition band between the bass boost and the midrange (Impact control), the high frequency tilt (Treble) and you can turn time alignment on and off (Image). The defeat button turns off all of the processing. 

It's powered by a cigarette lighter adapter (6V) and audio from the portable player turns it on and off. 

It doesn't use the same algorithm as MS-8. This one uses an FIR filter that's partitioned. there are 256 points below 1K and 256 points above 1k. That provides a little better than 4Hz resolution in the bass and about 75Hz resolution above 1kHz. It runs at 48k, so time alignment is adjusted in 1/4" (one sample) steps. 

In addition, there's an elliptical filter at 40Hz that can be engaged and disengaged. When it's engaged, it eliminates everything below about 40Hz, which is great for cars with small speakers and no subs. Out of the box, the filter is engaged. You press and hold the Bass button to disengage it. It can be engaged or disengaged either before or after setup. 

Once setup is complete, the coefficients are written to flash, so it will remember the settings when the power is off. It doesn't remember more than one car, but setup takes about 5 seconds, so moving it from one car to another is simple. The power connector is a standard barrel connector, so finding an AC/DC power supply is easy--Radio Shack. You can use it at home, on your PC speakers or just about anywhere. It's about the same size as a big bar of soap.

$199


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

pic no workie


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Ah Ha! I figured it out.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

oops I was fixing the pic at the same time. Cool concept.


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## matthewo (Jan 31, 2008)

Hmm interesting. I guess this could also be used between a headunit and processor without auto tune... Or even a loc / crossover

Just an idea


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

is the time alignment based on frequencies rather than distance?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

nineball said:


> is the time alignment based on frequencies rather than distance?


It's based on arrival time. I think for you that means distance. I don't know what time alignment based on frequencies means, maybe phase EQ?


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## donkeypunch22 (Nov 5, 2008)

Cool!


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## sierrarider (Jul 28, 2010)

I see another toy in my future...


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## CraigE (Jun 10, 2008)

Seems a lot of newer cars have usb to dock for the iPod.
Is there a way to make that work?


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Hmmm this might be a great little toy. Much more affordable than the ms-8..could be a good seller in car audio stores to the general public.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

CraigE said:


> Seems a lot of newer cars have usb to dock for the iPod.
> Is there a way to make that work?


It won't work with USB, but in some of those new cars, like BMW, the USB is for control and the audio signal is analog. BMW sells a Y-adapter looking thingy that has a 32 pin connector on one end and a USB and 3.5mm on the other. 

Like MS-8, this thing isn't designed to work in every car and for every application, but in the applications in which it works, it works great.


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## douggiestyle (Apr 29, 2008)

you guys are coming out with some really neat products, Andy. BTW, loving your warranty/customer support.


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## Fast1one (Apr 6, 2007)

A little disappointed that this thing doesn't come with binaural mics. Any reason why they weren't included? Still a very cool device and I like the fact that it takes so little time to tune. How sensitive is it to small movements of the microphone, assuming the speakers have a wide power response with minimal beaming? The reason I ask is because I could potentially use this for my car and home, simply retuning each time.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

We've done a bunch of work on the algorithm to make binaural mics unnecessary for this. It's about 90% as accurate with a single mic as MS-8 is with the binaural mics and spatial average. Below 5k, the performance is nearly identical. 

It makes everything I've ever plugged it into sound broken when I press the defeat button. It's $199. 

In fact, I've installed three of these things in my car (How? It's a secret.) and I'll never use an RTA again.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Pretty cool, & tiny. When will this be available? Do you have a link to the manual?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

They're on the boat now. Ought to be here in a few weeks.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> They're on the boat now. Ought to be here in a few weeks.



Nice. When can we expect to view the manual?

If a center channel or rear speakers are not being used (3-way front), would you consider much if any advantage to using the MS-8 over the MS-2?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

fish said:


> Nice. When can we expect to view the manual?
> 
> If a center channel or rear speakers are not being used (3-way front), would you consider much if any advantage to using the MS-8 over the MS-2?


I wouldn't call this a substitute for an MS-8 in any system. I would call it a substitute for a speaker upgrade in any car that has speakers for a customer who doesn't have any appetite for an installation and who listens primarily to a portable player.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> I wouldn't call this a substitute for an MS-8 in any system. I would call it a substitute for a speaker upgrade in any car that has speakers for a customer who doesn't have any appetite for an installation and who listens primarily to a portable player.



Ok, you threw me off when you mentioned never using an RTA again.


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## Fast1one (Apr 6, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> We've done a bunch of work on the algorithm to make binaural mics unnecessary for this. It's about 90% as accurate with a single mic as MS-8 is with the binaural mics and spatial average. Below 5k, the performance is nearly identical.
> 
> It makes everything I've ever plugged it into sound broken when I press the defeat button. It's $199.
> 
> In fact, I've installed three of these things in my car (How? It's a secret.) and I'll never use an RTA again.


Cool, that's what I wanted to hear. I think I'll be getting one of these once they're out. Care to share the secret? Put them between the deck and amps?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Fast1one said:


> Cool, that's what I wanted to hear. I think I'll be getting one of these once they're out. Care to share the secret? Put them between the deck and amps?


The secret is that I only use the firmware.


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## Fast1one (Apr 6, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> The secret is that I only use the firmware.


Cheater


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Interesting... Does that mean that you can use it in any car? For example a rental car? 

Guess I found my late birthday gift

Kelvin


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

On a train, in the rain.
On a boat, with a goat.
In a house, with a mouse.
In a box, with a fox.


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## stills (Apr 13, 2008)

I literally thought this was some sort of joke thread when I started reading it.

You guys at harmon are serious. Nice work.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

To bad this isn't an app you can load on your favorite mobile music player\phone. Seems like it would be feasible, might just need to buy a mic to go with it for calibration.

Can you put batteries in the ms-2?


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

Can I stick this in my friends car and set it up for passenger seating since he doesn't care a whit about imaging?
Can I set it up right smack between the front seats for a quasi-2 seater car?
Can I sit in the back seat and have it image for me back there?
Can I, can I, And I am?


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## Fast1one (Apr 6, 2007)

rawdawg said:


> Can I stick this in my friends car and set it up for passenger seating since he doesn't care a whit about imaging?
> Can I set it up right smack between the front seats for a quasi-2 seater car?
> Can I sit in the back seat and have it image for me back there?
> Can I, can I, And I am?


I can try....

1. I don't see why that wouldn't work considering its simply measuring arrival time and creating filters for fixing response.

2. Not really, at least not for traditional stereophonic sound. You can't fix speaker location relative to seating arrangement for BOTH seats, unless you had a proper center.... 

3. You could try, but I would suspect the large obstructions (i.e. seats and passengers) would make it quite difficult for the unit to equalize the response properly. Once your passengers move significantly, it may change the response by a significant amount, especially when you move higher in frequency with smaller wavelengths.

4. Sure


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

Great little idea


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## GouRiki (Apr 9, 2010)

:surprised:
I want one.
I'm going to make a aux plug for my car now.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

When is this available


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

So I was thinking... At, say, the next SQ Comp, it would be interesting to walk up to the judge and note exactly where his nose is placed relative to your person. Then mosey over to your car and whip out the MS-2. Whilst feigning talking on a CB, adjust the MS-2 settings to reflect the location of the judges noggin' at the seating position of your choice. Then, collect shiny plastic trophies.

Just musing...


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## PaulD (Nov 16, 2006)

I don't know what the judges are like in Calif, but if you did that here, 5 min of tuning won't get you anything (unless you are the only one in your class).


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

I thought it was more like 5 seconds...


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## Fast1one (Apr 6, 2007)

PaulD said:


> I don't know what the judges are like in Calif, but if you did that here, 5 min of tuning won't get you anything (unless you are the only one in your class).


How do you know, have you personally tried the MS-2?

And yes, definitely less than 5 minutes.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Fast1one said:


> How do you know, have you personally tried the MS-2?
> 
> And yes, definitely less than 5 minutes.


Install and tuning still play a big part for good sound. And I don't see a judge plugging his Ipod in first then start... well judging  
You have to remember that doesn't work with CDs, it's the AUX that matters. 
Else, just buy an MS-8

Kelvin


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

No, no one on this forum has ever heard an MS-2 except for Bas Hamans and Gary Biggs--and maybe the guys at Car Toys in Tulsa.


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

I think this year, I will compete with an Ipod Shuffle, some lossless files and the MS-2. There are Dragons to be slayed...


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> It makes everything I've ever plugged it into sound broken when I press the defeat button. It's $199.


Seems like those should be your best, and only two necessary selling points. I don't think it would work in my car b/c iPod is done through the USB dock, but awesome concept nonetheless. I am trying to think of other things to use this for too. Hmmm


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## Fast1one (Apr 6, 2007)

subwoofery said:


> Install and tuning still play a big part for good sound. And I don't see a judge plugging his Ipod in first then start... well judging
> You have to remember that doesn't work with CDs, it's the AUX that matters.
> Else, just buy an MS-8
> 
> Kelvin


Well of course it still does. Keep in mind however that you CAN use this with CDs, you just have to get more clever. i.e. place the device between a dedicated head unit and external processing capable of crossovers, levels and individual T/A. 

Definitely not saying that this thing is going to go around winning comps, but I would still reserve judgement until the unit actually comes out. Judging by the success of the MS-8, I wouldn't be surprised if this product performed better than our expectations.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Fast1one said:


> Well of course it still does. Keep in mind however that you CAN use this with CDs, you just have to get more clever. i.e. place the device between a dedicated head unit and external processing capable of crossovers, levels and individual T/A.
> 
> Definitely not saying that this thing is going to go around winning comps, but I would still reserve judgement until the unit actually comes out. Judging by the success of the MS-8, I wouldn't be surprised if this product performed better than our expectations.


Yes you can get creative but I don't see anyone using 1xMS-2 winning competitions. More than 1? Sure but that's MS-8 territory 
I truly see the use, I'm a flight attendant and rent cars very often. Therefore, I can't wait to get my hands on 1. 

However, even though I don't know the algorithm, it won't be able to T/A all drivers coz all outputs are not connected to it. You will have to set T/A by yourself. 

Kelvin


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

It can only time align the signals of the two channels. It does a good job of providing a great phantom center. When you run setup, move the fader about 2/3 of the way to the front, run setup and then readjust the fader. It works great. The algorithm is pretty tricky, but completely in the public domain. Just a smart reuse of existing stuff. We have applied for one patent though...

I've demo'ed this thing many times in cars with factory systems and the usual response is people looking around the car to find the hidden subwoofer (which doesn't exist).


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## Fast1one (Apr 6, 2007)

subwoofery said:


> Yes you can get creative but I don't see anyone using 1xMS-2 winning competitions. More than 1? Sure but that's MS-8 territory
> I truly see the use, I'm a flight attendant and rent cars very often. Therefore, I can't wait to get my hands on 1.
> 
> However, even though I don't know the algorithm, it won't be able to T/A all drivers coz all outputs are not connected to it. You will have to set T/A by yourself.
> ...


That's what I meant about using external processing. Time arrival is an objective measurement, not subjective. EQ is the most difficult part of tuning IMO, and most of it has a lot to do with a lack of processing power (lack of parametric eqs). 30 bands of EQ is NOT enough, and a lot of us run into that issue, limiting our ability to correct the response. 

When I saw this thread I immediately saw a second use as well for enthusiasts with a limited budget. I also like the fact that I can likely use it in my home system and computer system to triple its use, something that the MS-8 cannot do. To put it inline with the source and external processing, you would need T/A for all channels, flexible crossovers and level adjustment. The rest should be pretty simple:


Set the T/A correctly for all drivers using external processing, ensure none of the speakers have inverted phase
Set relative levels as close as possible
Set electronic crossovers and be sure to consider the acoustic roll off of drivers (most people ignore acoustic roll off it seems)
Connect the MS-2 between the source unit and the external processer and let it do the difficult part of equalizing the system PROPERLY
Enjoy!

If you primarily use an iPod with an active capable deck, like I do, you don't even have to run any extra wiring


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

cajunner said:


> sounds like this would be cool with an iPod attached to the back, and digital going from the iPod to the MS-2, bypassing any DA/AD steps.
> 
> first hack?
> 
> ...


This is precisely why JBL MS devices use analog inputs. To do what you're suggesting, MS-2 would also have to include encoding and decoding and I'd never be able to sleep because I'd be answering a bi-jillion emails about "my MS-2 doesn't work. It won't play my MegaSlayer, Janet Jerkson, or Ricardo Havens tracks, but it'll play everything else." Then I'd have to ask, what file types are they? To which I'd receive, "That shouldn't matter" as a reply. And then I'd have to go make a pot of coffee and sit down at the computer at 2 AM.

*No offense intended to Mr. Cajunner. *It's a very common question.

There's so little performance gain (_go ahead, flame me like a lump of mesquite_) to be had in maintaining digital signal transfer that it's far cooler to make a device that'll work reliably with just about anything than it is to make one that's perfect for 3 people and 1 application.


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## m3gunner (Aug 6, 2008)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> There's so little performance gain (_go ahead, flame me like a lump of mesquite_) to be had in maintaining digital signal transfer that it's far cooler to make a device that'll work reliably with just about anything than it is to make one that's perfect for 3 people and 1 application.


Amen.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> It won't work with USB, but in some of those new cars, like BMW, the USB is for control and the audio signal is analog. BMW sells a Y-adapter looking thingy that has a 32 pin connector on one end and a USB and 3.5mm on the other.


May have already been posted (by Technic, probably), but BMW has also gone to USB iPod and jettisoned that cable. All digital, baby.


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## katodevin (Feb 14, 2008)

Any news on this bad boy - release date? further details?

waiting with baited breath


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

katodevin said:


> Any news on this bad boy - release date? further details?
> 
> waiting with baited breath


I'd like to know this as well.


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## katodevin (Feb 14, 2008)

I guess Andy's been in China for a while. Crackin the whip on production I bet. Hopefully we hear from him soon on the ms-2.


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## tprince5 (Jan 11, 2011)

So I have one of these. It is an early pre pro sample but I can tell you this...set up takes less then 45 seconds, 1.5 mins if you include plugging it in. After a couple sweeps ran in different positions at different volumes I was able to get FABULOUS results. 

I'm currently using it in line with my ksbta100 jvc Bluetooth adapter. That piece has headphone out to use with the new rear aux on jvc radios, so it's a great fit for an ms2 type product with no adapters needed and no messy wires everywhere. Helps to make my ap2b streaming sound awesome and my phone never leaves my pocket! (yes, I am lazy) 

I've ran the calibration in multiple scenarios and will say the obvious, don't think you need to play loud to get a good calibration, you will just clip the mic and get awful noises. The wording as of now is "a comfortable volume" I've experimented with running it with the "sub" setting on and off and I've actually had it sounding good both ways but as Andy said, with the sub light off there is nothing under 40hz going on so it doesn't make sense to do that with a sub, I was just trying to see what I could get it to do. Just like with the ms8, but even easier to show, hitting the defeat button will totally show anyone with ears that this thing improves ANY stereo system. 

Wish I could tell you about the other products I've been lucky enough to play with from jbl, but I've probably said to much already... Let's just say, be excited, be VERY excited!! If you are located in the midatlantic region, get in touch with me I can promise fully functional demos in the not to distant future. 

Disclaimer - I am a product rep and jbl mobile and jvc are among some of the brands I rep.


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## katodevin (Feb 14, 2008)

Good to hear Tprince. Any idea of a release date?


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## Ludemandan (Jul 13, 2005)

I appreciate the expertise of the people over at HK and I think it's a great technical acheivement that you're able to create stuff like this. That said, I will never buy a JBL MS product. How is this DIY? This takes the learning out of it. What the MS-2 and the MS-8 need is an explanation to go along with the tuning adjustment. I know it's proprietary and it would spill all the beans but I don't think you can place a patent or a copyright on an EQ curve. I will spend the next several (and possibly more) years of my life slowly learning the secrets of psychoacoustics and car audio SQ, and chasing after the satisfaction of creating the perfect sound using my own ears, knowing there's a plug-and-play solution out there but not using it because that would take all the fun out of the hobby.


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## Ludemandan (Jul 13, 2005)

It's not that I don't think there's any improvement to be made after the auto tune. I just don't like the idea of something making a bunch of adjustments to my system and not telling me what they are.


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## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

I have a question. Is it possible to use 1/8 plug to RCA adapters on this thing so i could use it to run my amps as part of the main system...kinda a cheap alternative to the MS8?
I always use the USB on my HU, don't have an ipod or such so thought i'd ask.

also, does it memorize its last configuration or do you have to redo it every time?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

SoulFly said:


> I have a question. Is it possible to use 1/8 plug to RCA adapters on this thing so i could use it to run my amps as part of the main system...kinda a cheap alternative to the MS8?
> I always use the USB on my HU, don't have an ipod or such so thought i'd ask.
> 
> also, does it memorize its last configuration or do you have to redo it every time?


Yup. This will work and yes, it remembers the settings.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Ludemandan said:


> It's not that I don't think there's any improvement to be made after the auto tune. I just don't like the idea of something making a bunch of adjustments to my system and not telling me what they are.


Some like apples and some like oranges.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

Amazon.com: JBL MS-2 Car Audio Optimizer: Electronics


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Great its on Amazon for what I am sure is dealers cost or close to it again. The dealers gotta love this again after the MS-8 was on there.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

strangely it is for sale at amazon and crutchfield but not on the jbl/harmon site.


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## asat11 (Mar 22, 2011)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> It makes everything I've ever plugged it into sound broken when I press the defeat button. It's $199.


Even an MS-8 equipped system?


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## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Yup. This will work and yes, it remembers the settings.


Awesome, just what I needed that's affordable, wanted the ms8 for a long time but too much for what it does IMO


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Genxx said:


> Great its on Amazon for what I am sure is dealers cost or close to it again. The dealers gotta love this again after the MS-8 was on there.


No, 199 is the price. We haven't shipped any units to anyone yet.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

lol, and peeps said id never get an auto tune jbl product for $180 any time soon 

i wonder if the ms-2 will win more competitions and stay in more cars the the -8?


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Andy,

Any updates on when this will hit shelves?

Crutchfield still showing ship date as "uncertain"


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## omegaslast (Nov 4, 2010)

If jbl is delaying the release because they are still ironing out bugs, they need to realize people buy buggy ass crappy anyways 

just look at the alpine imprint! 
just release it jbl :[


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Can it's firmware be updated by the user?


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

I was looking forward to this but might just use the imprint. Seems like it's never coming out!


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

You guys need to relax a little more. The MS-8 thread was started 3 years before it was finally released. Quality takes time.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

True, but when you tease a product that lots of folks are interested in it would be nice to give at least a rough estimate of timeframe.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

logic would dictate it will be out no later than 2014 following the timeline of the ms-8. any sooner is just a bonus.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Update:
We've added a USB charging port to the cigarette lighter power supply, added a DC/DC convertor to completely isolate the audio ground from the signal ground (some aux input jacks are single ended and that makes noise) and fix a bizarre bug that made noise only with an iPhone4. 

These are in production this week and will air ship to our warehouses. You'll be able to buy one this month. 

And it's cool.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Oh hell yeah... Thank You Andy!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

can someone explain how I could run this up in a car using the 1/8 to rca method so that it would work with all my decks input sources?


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

How about:

HU -> http://www.cablestogo.com/product-images/40424/400/40424a.jpg -> MS-2 Input -> MS-2 Output -> http://www.cablestogo.com/product-images/40424/400/40424a.jpg -> amp


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Ganderson said:


> How about:
> 
> HU -> http://www.cablestogo.com/product-images/40424/400/40424a.jpg -> MS-2 Input -> MS-2 Output -> http://www.cablestogo.com/product-images/40424/400/40424a.jpg -> amp


That would work I think and then send the signal to my symbilink slb-u and re up the voltage. I wonder if its ok with a 5 volt rca output


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Jeez, guys. This output/input voltage thing is just ridiculous. This thing has differential inputs and so should your amps. It also has an isolated supply. It isn't going to make noise and that's all the 100kV output line drivers are good for--eliminating noise--radiated noise (which should be adequately rejected by a differential input) or by masking the crappy preamp stages in some amplifiers (If I turn the am gain all the way down and turn my line driver all the way up I have less noise). That's it. 

Preamp output voltage "ratings" are the new "Max Power." It's seriously unfortunate.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

All right Andy, we're not all engineers here. Seemed like a perfectly sound question. no need for max wattage and preamp voltage rage or whatever your point was (Im assuming both are almost meaningless was your point). I just wanted to see if I could run it in line with my amp and if it would cause any issues which Im sure many of us were thinking.

I personally dont need to know how it works, just want to know if it would work then I want to hit the button and have a nice response and imaging.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Andy... can you give some more info while we're waiting...

Can we get a sneak preview of the manual?

Physical dimensions?

Firmware updatable?

Is there a mounting bracket?

Can it be left connected to an "always on" 12v socket without draining the cars battery?

Will it work equally well connected to a line-out dock connector vs the HP jack on say an iPhone 4?

Why no product info on the JBL website?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> All right Andy, we're not all engineers here. Seemed like a perfectly sound question. no need for max wattage and preamp voltage rage or whatever your point was (Im assuming both are almost meaningless was your point). I just wanted to see if I could run it in line with my amp and if it would cause any issues which Im sure many of us were thinking.
> 
> I personally dont need to know how it works, just want to know if it would work then I want to hit the button and have a nice response and imaging.


 
Sorry about the voltage rage. Yes, you can put it in line with your amp and it'll work fine, but it probably won't work between the zapco hoover dam of output voltage and the massive resistor network used to reduce that voltage in the amp. 

Hopefully that rant is more palatable.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Yay can't wait to get this!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Sorry about the voltage rage. Yes, you can put it in line with your amp and it'll work fine, but it probably won't work between the zapco hoover dam of output voltage and the massive resistor network used to reduce that voltage in the amp.
> 
> Hopefully that rant is more palatable.


Yes thank you. Ill have to try it in another vehicle that isnt symbilink


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Sorry about the voltage rage. Yes, you can put it in line with your amp and it'll work fine, but it probably won't work between the zapco hoover dam of output voltage and the massive resistor network used to reduce that voltage in the amp.
> 
> Hopefully that rant is more palatable.


And for those that need it, use a jlaudio cl-rlc that will bump up the voltage so you can reduce your amp's noisey preamp stage (if it is one of those noisy ones), plus it has a high quality master volume control (ss pot).


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Product page is up:

JBL - MS-2 - NEW A pocket digital processor and automatic equalizer for great car audio sound.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

This cannot be right...

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Maximum input voltage: 1.3V
Power requirement: 6V DC, 1A
Dimensions (L x W x H): 9" x 5-7/8" x 2-3/8" (230mm x 150mm x 60mm)
Weight: 0.2 lb (96 kg)

That's HUGE... 

(From the product info PDF and owners manual)


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## dcm220 (May 22, 2009)

That's probably just the dimension of the box/package.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

dcm220 said:


> That's probably just the dimension of the box/package.


I hope so because a device the size of a human head will not fit in my cup-holder.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Maybe not though...


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

Crap, I'm going to have to get bigger pockets...


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Update:
> We've added a USB charging port to the cigarette lighter power supply, added a DC/DC convertor to completely isolate the audio ground from the signal ground (some aux input jacks are single ended and that makes noise) and fix a bizarre bug that made noise only with an iPhone4.
> 
> These are in production this week and will air ship to our warehouses. You'll be able to buy one this month.
> ...


This month is almost over... so... yeah


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Yes, those are the dimensions of the package. Sorry. We'll ship enough to fill open customer orders this month and another production run will come next month.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Got the "in stock" email from Crutchfield this afternoon.


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## omegaslast (Nov 4, 2010)

Eagerly anticipating some early adopter reviews...


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## MerlinWerks (Feb 4, 2008)

Has no one tried this yet???


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

Interesting stuff since MS 8 itself. Maybe I would try when its available in my country.

Best Regards

Wendo


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## ewffan (Oct 20, 2005)

MerlinWerks said:


> Has no one tried this yet???



Also waiting to hear reviews also......anyone tried one yet ?


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## katodevin (Feb 14, 2008)

ewffan said:


> Also waiting to hear reviews also......anyone tried one yet ?


I got one. Putting it through it's paces now. I'll update this thread with my thoughts in a day or 2. Positive so far.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

omegaslast said:


> Eagerly anticipating some early adopter reviews...





MerlinWerks said:


> Has no one tried this yet???





ewffan said:


> Also waiting to hear reviews also......anyone tried one yet ?


you guys have to actually read the threads you post in.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1260135-post55.html


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## omegaslast (Nov 4, 2010)

nineball said:


> you guys have to actually read the threads you post in.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1260135-post55.html


ms-8 had a lot of problems after people got their hands on them... thats what im waiting for. some pre-production samples that a dealer gets their hands isnt put under the microscope. diyma users run a fine toothed comb over a product and figure whether or not its up to fluff.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

nineball said:


> you guys have to actually read the threads you post in.


THANK YOU... People whine about everything and ask about stuffs that are already there. 
Read before you ask... read... 

Kelvin


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## MerlinWerks (Feb 4, 2008)

Are you guys kiddin'? I have been reading this thread since the beginning and I am anticipating actual user reviews on official production. That is a single post, four months old. While I agree in principle that many people don't put the effort in to read and will jump into a thread asking questions that have been answered several times over, that is clearly not the case here...


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Well, I ordered one from Crutchfield today... got tired of waiting for it to show up on Amazon.

I should have it middle of next week.

The commercial was so convincing I couldn't resist. 

‪HOW COOL IS THIS? - The JBL MS-2‬‏ - YouTube


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## omegaslast (Nov 4, 2010)

Ganderson said:


> Well, I ordered one from Crutchfield today... got tired of waiting for it to show up on Amazon.
> 
> I should have it middle of next week.
> 
> ...


the concept of someone doing an audio calibration in a car wash is like nails on chalkboard. How is that an accurate environment for measuring. To quote bill hicks "by the way if anyone is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself"


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## katodevin (Feb 14, 2008)

omegaslast said:


> the concept of someone doing an audio calibration in a car wash is like nails on chalkboard. How is that an accurate environment for measuring. To quote bill hicks "by the way if anyone is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself"


Its a commercial. Every time I drink bud light, I don't expect hot girls in bikinis to pop out.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

omegaslast said:


> the concept of someone doing an audio calibration in a car wash is like nails on chalkboard. How is that an accurate environment for measuring. To quote bill hicks "by the way if anyone is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself"


yeah... I don't think it's intended as an endorsement for doing your calibrations in a car wash, but since you were obviously smart enough to find the internet today I'll assume that you were joking.


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

katodevin said:


> Its a commercial. Every time I drink bud light, I don't expect hot girls in bikinis to pop out.


You are totally drinking your Bud Lights in the wrong places...

I'm in a rental right now with full ranges in the bottom of the doors. Would be interested to see what this gadget can do for it.


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## ewffan (Oct 20, 2005)

MerlinWerks said:


> Are you guys kiddin'? I have been reading this thread since the beginning and I am anticipating actual user reviews on official production. That is a single post, four months old. While I agree in principle that many people don't put the effort in to read and will jump into a thread asking questions that have been answered several times over, that is clearly not the case here...



X2 on that...I'm also waiting to hear "various" user reviews as well.....


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Andy,

I'll be getting this unit in on wednesday and I have a question...

It has been discussed that this can be used between the HU and amp as a "whole system" 2 channel processor instead of between iPhone and aux-in.

I am wondering if it could be used between my OEM HU (w/ balanced differential output) and aftermarket amp in place of the LOC that is there now? The only reason the LOC is there is because my amp doesn't work with the balanced output from the HU.

Fwiw, my OEM HU puts out 4.3v at maximum volume before clipping.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Got mine.

Impressions thread Here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...46-jbl-ms-2-impressions-pics.html#post1381498


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## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

Any suppliers planned for this in the UK ?

Crutchfield won't ship, any other US suppliers i could try ?

How would i get on with a warrenty claim if i bought from the US ?

I tried looking on the JBL web site but it's not on there if you click UK, France and Germany. It wouldn't let me access the US site.

Any one else got one and have any more feed back ?


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

It's not available on the US site either. Apparently, Ganderson got the only one made... and it looks like he's switching to the MS-8.


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## katodevin (Feb 14, 2008)

I got one too  Works really well.


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## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

katodevin said:


> I got one too  Works really well.


Where's your review ?


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

rawdawg said:


> It's not available on the US site either. Apparently, Ganderson got the only one made... and it looks like he's switching to the MS-8.


Hehe.. Seems like it. Actually I'll probably be keeping the MS-2 for a while. Once I collect all of the pieces for the next phase of my car system built around the MS-8, my wife can use it in her altima.

Upgrading to the MS-8 for my car is really a product of wanting to run active, and getting a good dose of the JBL processing from the MS-2... for me it was a gateway drug.

My buddy and I tried it in his new bone-stock Terrain a couple weeks ago and we loved what it did... He was bummed he couldn't keep the settings when I took it back.


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

Guys does anyone know what the MS2 does in terms of DA conversion? Anyone have any opinions on using an HRT istreamer ahead of the MS-2?

Please google HRT istreamer, I am not allowed to post links since I just signed up. It's a small DAC for ipods/iphones, etc.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

turbo2go said:


> Guys does anyone know what the MS2 does in terms of DA conversion? Anyone have any opinions on using an HRT istreamer ahead of the MS-2?
> 
> Please google HRT istreamer, I am not allowed to post links since I just signed up. It's a small DAC for ipods/iphones, etc.


It does a stereo signal A to D, then some DSP work on that digitized signal, then a D to A. 

The iStreamer or any device of that type will not work AHEAD of the device. A line level analog stereo signal is the only input signal that is compatible. Preferably one that is ~1 volt RMS.


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## badabam (Aug 18, 2011)

I had one of these for a couple of weeks, returned it after too many issues.

I had mine lock up numerous times while changing settings, required power pull.

Right before I returned it the thing would put awful distortion through my system and I eventually got fed up with it and sent it back.

There were times where I can say that it did great things to improve imaging but also it created holes in my response where instruments would completely disappear. 

YMMV, but I don't think this thing was ready for prime time.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

I don't want to speak for Andy as he is quite capable of managing his product, but he did contact me unsolicited and wants to send me a replacement unit... There were some issues with the very first production units that I believe are now resolved.

If you have issues don't hesitate to contact JBL or Andy and they'll take care of it.

As far as it's performance... like I said in my other thread, it can take some trial and error with sub volume, system volume, and mic position to find the sweet spot for your car.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Guys, when you run setup if you have a subwoofer in the car, you have to follow the instructions carefully. It's best to run calibration with the sub level WAY down, so MS-2 will boost the bass rather than cut the bass. Also, always run calibration with the sub light off. 

You can reset the device and clear the memory by pressing Setup and Impact at the same time and holding them. 

Finally, if you have lock up issues, PLEASE let me know via PM. We'll replace the units!


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

When are these things gonna' be back in stock?


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

Andy I use my iphone as my head unit. I don't need a radio. The issue I have using the MS-2 is that there is no volume control on the unit. And since the unit likes to see a certain voltage in, I guess I have to keep the iphone at a fixed level. I was thinking of using an old school RCA in-two out car stereo fader mounted on my dash as my volume control. What I am worried about is that the output of the MS-2 may be too low with my amps gain control maxed out to give me ENOUGH volume since I am basically only attenuating with the fader. Do you have any thoughts on this?


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

turbo2go said:


> Andy I use my iphone as my head unit. I don't need a radio. The issue I have using the MS-2 is that there is no volume control on the unit. And since the unit likes to see a certain voltage in, I guess I have to keep the iphone at a fixed level. I was thinking of using an old school RCA in-two out car stereo fader mounted on my dash as my volume control. What I am worried about is that the output of the MS-2 may be too low with my amps gain control maxed out to give me ENOUGH volume since I am basically only attenuating with the fader. Do you have any thoughts on this?


You can use the JL CL-RLC active level control for this... It works great.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Ganderson said:


> You can use the JL CL-RLC active level control for this... It works great.


That's what I would use. Or something from Audio Control. I think they have one now around the same price range as the RLC and it also has a master volume control option.

Connect it after and near the MS-2.


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

Awesome! just what I was looking for. Thanks guys.


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

t3sn4f2 said:


> The iStreamer or any device of that type will not work AHEAD of the device.


By "work" you mean have a benefit? Because it will definitely work. You are bypassing the phone's internam DACs. The istreamer is using a digital input. The analog coming out of the istreamer going IN to the MS-2 will then not suffer from the same distortion levels introduced by the phone's internal DAC and preamp (headphone) section.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

turbo2go said:


> By "work" you mean have a benefit? Because it will definitely work. You are bypassing the phone's internam DACs. The istreamer is using a digital input. The analog coming out of the istreamer going IN to the MS-2 will then not suffer from the same distortion levels introduced by the phone's internal DAC and preamp (headphone) section.


Just to be clear, by "ahead of the device" I meant after the MS-2. That is how understood the original question.

Oh by the way..........

10 years ago and he very first one:

Apple iPod portable music player Measurements | Stereophile.com

Today and still going strong (and that's the headphone out remember):

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/77343-iphone-3gs-unloaded-headphone-out-measurements.html

Here's a high rez gut pic of the iStreamer if you're interested.










I think it's a complete waste of money though, unless you need to meet an input stage with a sensitivity rating of 2 volts. Even then I'd rather use a Pure i-20 dock with a high quality automotive 7.5 volt DC to DC converter. It'll still be cheaper then the iStreamer plus you get the BIG bonus of a Toslink and Coax digital out, as well as a simple remote.


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

Interesting.... thanks. So I guess the iphone's out isn't so "junk" as many imply. I looked at the pure... tough to use in a car.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

turbo2go said:


> Interesting.... thanks. So I guess the iphone's out isn't so "junk" as many imply. I looked at the pure... tough to use in a car.


You can mount it hidden away in the dash and use an ipod car dock that has a dock connector pass through option (ie dice electronics G2 dock), along with a 3ft dock extension cable to connect the two.

But again, I would not bother if using an MS-2. Use the money for a good line driver with volume control, after the ms-2.


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

t3sn4f2 said:


> You can mount it hidden away in the dash and use an ipod car dock that has a dock connector pass through option (ie dice electronics G2 dock), along with a 3ft dock extension cable to connect the two.
> 
> But again, I would not bother if using an MS-2. Use the money for a good line driver with volume control, after the ms-2.


Yup. That's my plan. I'm hoping this thing will create a little extra bass with the EQ as I'm only running a set of 6.5" components and no subwoofer. I'm ditching the factory Bose system that has a "sub", the whole system sucks. I'm also really trying to keep it light as this car sees race track duty on weekends. Using my phone, one class D amp or the new RF BR amps and one set of 6.5" components allows me to ditch the factory radio, cd changer and bracket, 2 Bose door speakers, a center channel, a Bose sub, a Bose amp and a power antenna. That saves me 20 pounds and I'm sure will have more clarity if all goes as planned. Question is when will more MS-2's be available... Thanks for the help.


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

MS-2's are back in stock at Crutchfield. I wonder if the issues have been resolved? Anyone know? I am about to order one.

It's funny JBL's own website says out of stock... yet I talked to crutchfield and they assured me they have brand new ones in stock. 

JBL guy where are you?


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

They have a 60 day return so I just ordered one. I will post a review. I hope the issues have been resolved.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

We've held them to add a new car charger that's completely isolated from ground via DC/DC conversion. This prevents engine noise in cars where the auxiliary input shield is connected to chassis ground--now that's a stupid design. The new charger also includes additional juice and a female USB connector so you can charge your MP3 player through the ssame ground-isolated circuit.

The last little thing is that we've changed a couple of capacitors in the input audio ground to eliminate a little "hiss" with iPhone4. The guys in the warehouse are so busy that they're reworking these units as needed to fill orders. We have thousands in stock.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> We've held them to add a new car charger that's completely isolated from ground via DC/DC conversion. This prevents engine noise in cars where the auxiliary input shield is connected to chassis ground--now that's a stupid design. The new charger also includes additional juice and a female USB connector so you can charge your MP3 player through the ssame ground-isolated circuit.
> 
> The last little thing is that we've changed a couple of capacitors in the input audio ground to eliminate a little "hiss" with iPhone4. The guys in the warehouse are so busy that they're reworking these units as needed to fill orders. We have thousands in stock.


Andy, can one of these chargers be used as a power supply for something like a DAC with DC input? Assuming it can be purchased separately later on and can meet the specs needed. What would the output voltage and amperage rating be (6 volts still?)?


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> We've held them to add a new car charger that's completely isolated from ground via DC/DC conversion. This prevents engine noise in cars where the auxiliary input shield is connected to chassis ground--now that's a stupid design. The new charger also includes additional juice and a female USB connector so you can charge your MP3 player through the ssame ground-isolated circuit.
> 
> The last little thing is that we've changed a couple of capacitors in the input audio ground to eliminate a little "hiss" with iPhone4. The guys in the warehouse are so busy that they're reworking these units as needed to fill orders. We have thousands in stock.


So which ones does Crutchfield have? Did I get an old model? What do I look for? the female USB connector on the charger? I have an iphone 4, I would prefer to have the updated model.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Andy, can one of these chargers be used as a power supply for something like a DAC with DC input? Assuming it can be purchased separately later on and can meet the specs needed. What would the output voltage and amperage rating be (6 volts still?)?


USB is 5 V and 500mA.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

turbo2go said:


> So which ones does Crutchfield have? Did I get an old model? What do I look for? the female USB connector on the charger? I have an iphone 4, I would prefer to have the updated model.


Send me a PM


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## Sulley (Dec 8, 2008)

So the image button disables all the time alignment? So I can use another processor like a headunit or miniDSP to do my own time alignment and crossover functions with the MS-2 for just EQ?


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Send me a PM


You have a PM


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

Ok I got my unit and it has a USB power dongle for the portable. I guess it's a new one. Will use and report back.


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

This little thing is incredible. I've been in the audio business (home) for over 20 years and this is one of the neatest products I've seen. The effect is so dramatic that at first I thought something was wrong. Using it on my Honda's factory system the difference is huge. I found the best to be to set my radio fully flat, use the sub option and have the MS-2 tune, then turn the sub back up after tuning for a good balance. After listening for a while, hitting the defeat button is NOT a pleasant experience. 

I'm afraid many won't like this piece. It tends to dramatically reduce volume at certain frequencies and for those used to their system they may feel too much is missing. It takes some tuning time and getting used to but it really cleared up my system.

My gripes are that it's not install friendly being a portable unit. It's oval shape and large size are cool to hold, but I'd like to install and permanently wire it. There are way too many wires hanging around for it to be remotely neat in the car. I'll try to tune and permanently install it anyway.

I've never heard a full boat MS-8 system but am really thinking of one now. Perhaps I'll wait for a genII version, hopefully they will toss the internal amps and make it smaller, and have a Bluetooth iPhone interface for adjustments.

Pretty happy with the MS-2 so far and I recommend it!


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## Ray21 (Oct 19, 2009)

Nice review.

So the one you got from Crutchfield is a newer/updated unit?


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## turbo2go (Aug 23, 2011)

Ray21 said:


> Nice review.
> 
> So the one you got from Crutchfield is a newer/updated unit?


Mine has the USB do dongle so I'm pretty sure it's a new one.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

Any issues if using the MS-2 and a separate eq (from a head unit, for example)?


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## yrmom724 (Oct 8, 2011)

I just got this device maybe a little over a week ago. It's great but not as UF as advertised. I'm sure it's fine for someone who is not an audiophile. For an audiophile, it sometimes can take a few setups in order for it to produce desired sound quality. I don't mind this because when you reach that desired sound quality, it does not disappoint. 

Great product!!!


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## yrmom724 (Oct 8, 2011)

My JBL MS-2 has a continuously blinking ok light and will not work.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

press and hold "Setup" and "impact" to reset the unit and try again.


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## bladest (Mar 12, 2012)

hello i am from bulgaria i recently bought from ebay brand new jbl ms 2 it cant be bought here in bulgaria,
i used the product about 3-4 weeks
its really brand new and good product the problem is today unit doesnt work propertly i mean
when i try to calibrate the unit 
my treble,impact,bass,image doesnt blink and doesnt work i tried setup+impact same :[i study it and i think the problem is this
this thing cant memorize my favourites or something else i dont know
i mean when i make one option for example when i make setup one time i cant do it again
when i enable sub i cant anything else unless i unplug unit from power and power it again but then my sub goes off and the only things that are on are power / and in,i also tried home charger 6v which i used in the past
same result 
please help me
for me is not possible to send this unit to jbl uk or usa since i live in bulgaria and will be very expensive both ways ..........
in bulgaria we dont have dealers and etc so i cant send it to repair in bulgaria so i will really appriacite it if u tell me how to make hard reset i have friends who can open unit and make things if need
please i really need help for hard reset or any reset which will help and solve my problem.
p.s. i forgot to menation that my ok blink........ when i plug jbl to power.


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

rain27 said:


> Any issues if using the MS-2 and a separate eq (from a head unit, for example)?


I use mine to override my 360.2 tuning. It does a better job than what my RF was doing. To be fair, the set-up on the 360.2 wasn't that great. Some day, when I get off my butt, I will set-up with the MS-2 and then tweak with the 360.2 or whatever I end up with next.

It usually takes me about 5-10 tries to nail the sound I'm looking for. Generally speaking, it has to do with bass response. You can get some trippy results by angling the unit in the most unusual vectors.


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

Well I'm about to transfer my old active system (6.5" Peerless HDS/3" TB wideband) but with a different "old" HU, a Pioneer 860mp. I'm not sure which would be best, the 860mp's mic/tuning feature (if the mic is even still with me lol) or the MS-2 but with little time to tinker and tune, this may be the ticket for me....

Anymore updates from those with this unit? Did the refurb units hold up well?

Can I still use the HU EQ (16 band Left/Right) to tweak or does the MS-2 totally override everything?

Thanks guys

Jeremy


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

I had a problem with mine not powering on but it turned out to be the charger not setting in properly into the 12v socket. The MS-2 will override everything, so set it first and then tweak with your other tuning tools. This applies every time you decide to retune with the MS-2.


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

Thanks buddy, I may have to snag one of these soon...


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## Manchoa (Mar 27, 2012)

can i use this between iPod and cassette-adapter ?


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## jacar (May 30, 2010)

I got one of these for my BMW 328; which has a dismal 6 speaker system,no tweeters. It does an amazing job of making the system sound better. Only problem is it his been locking up increasingly. Any ideas on the locking up? Also, the power plug is too tall So my console lid can't close: any ideas on an elbow for the power plug?


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## davidaragao (Apr 18, 2012)

Stopped Working!

After 2 months of normal use it stopped working!

I think it can be the DC-DC Adaptor, the LED doesn't turn on anymore!

For the record, it's the new adaptor with the usb input!

The bigger problem is i live in Brazil, and it was purchased on amazon.co.uk
Here in Brazil we have dealers and technical assistence, but not for this product.

Can someone help me out?


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## jacar (May 30, 2010)

This continues to impress me on how much better it makes my BMW's crappy sound system, music is actually alive now. It can't completely make up for the small speakers and lack of power, but short of installing a new system (which I can't in a leased car) this is really good.
The cigarette lighter plug in this car is in the console and the MS2's plug is tall so that the console lid won't close. I had made up my own 6 volt power by using a shorter igo plug and a 6 volt tip: however I was having the MS2 lock up every 15 minutes or so. I found a plug extender cord at Radio shack, this is low enough to close the console and has a short wire then a receptacle for the MS2's power supply to plug in to. I have had no lock-ups after that.


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

Alright, I'm bumping this to see if anyone has tried to permanently wire the MS-2 and get rid of the 12v adaptor....?

I see they're hovering around $180-200 and still have some other things to wrap up before buying something just to tinker with. I haven't had a chance to even install my 860mp but plan on doing that in the next month or two so it would be cool to compare the tuning effectiveness of each unit...


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

niceguy said:


> Alright, I'm bumping this to see if anyone has tried to permanently wire the MS-2 and get rid of the 12v adaptor....?
> 
> I see they're hovering around $180-200 and still have some other things to wrap up before buying something just to tinker with. I haven't had a chance to even install my 860mp but plan on doing that in the next month or two so it would be cool to compare the tuning effectiveness of each unit...


The 12 volts adapter is essential. I doubt you can even find one under $100 that has the type of filtering that it has. Plus it has the same power output quality on the USB port which is also just as important.

I've search for DC to DC converters of this type and the quality ones are at least $50 and they don't even have isolated outputs like these do. Which is important to keep ground loops under control.

What you want to do is hardwire to that adapters input and mount it tucked away.


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## Sulley (Dec 8, 2008)

t3sn4f2 said:


> The 12 volts adapter is essential. I doubt you can even find one under $100 that has the type of filtering that it has. Plus it has the same power output quality on the USB port which is also just as important.
> 
> I've search for DC to DC converters of this type and the quality ones are at least $50 and they don't even have isolated outputs like these do. Which is important to keep ground loops under control.
> 
> What you want to do is hardwire to that adapters input and mount it tucked away.


How about one of these instead of soldering directly to the adapter? Then it's still removable if you ever went on Vacation and needed it for a rental. 

12v Power Socket


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

stockley.rod said:


> How about one of these instead of soldering directly to the adapter? Then it's still removable if you ever went on Vacation and needed it for a rental.
> 
> 12v Power Socket


Those would work, just have to make sure that its high quality so there isn't any connection breaks if you hit a bump or something. And that whatever you use to keep them together also insulates the exposed outer ground rim. Although I'm not sure if that would be a problem but might as well do it since you are going to wrap it together with something regardless.

By the way, does anyone remember if the adapter already comes with the option to hardwire it by bypassing the cig plug. I seem to recall the mp3 navigation portal they use to sell having that option.


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

Ok I see what you're saying. The only pic I ever saw of it was on pg 1 of this thread so I didn't know if the MS-2 unit was self contained and simply had a 12v pigtail hanging off of it where I could cut the male socket plug and wire it in.

Oh well, I'll keep tabs on this thread as I still want to play with it when I put the 860mp and the rest of my old active setup in...


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

The output of the power supply is 6V!


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

These things are on ebay pretty cheap I am thinking about picking one up but they seem to have some issues is anybody running one and not having problems with it?


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## Ray21 (Oct 19, 2009)

Been contemplating getting one to play with for a while now and this helped me decide... thanks for the info!


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

Yeah I finally installed my Pioneer 860mp and plan to use the AutoEQ/mic feature but I may grab one too....or wait for one of you chronic audio junkies to get tired of it and sell me one lol!


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

In my former car I used the ms8 with wonderfull results.

Now I ve a simple system, two ways plus sub and a 4ch amp.
So I get an MS2, It works great (magic) with an external player.
I want to use muy HU cd player. I tried using the HU RCA out into the MS2 IN and the DPS out directly to the amp.
I ve tried many gain settins during cal but still something sound wrong.
Using the HU (JVC AVX1) as preamp gives a cleaner sound.
HELP !!!! (and thanks)


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

cajunner said:


> I believe the head unit as preamp, is putting out more voltage than the MS-2.
> 
> The MS-2 input is topped out at 1.3V according to the manual, and if it's a unity gain, and if you've got a few settings on your deck bumped, it'll push higher voltage to your amps than the 1.3V limit coming out of the MS-2.
> 
> ...


I have made some progress,
Limiting the Hu output (the unit has a low amp output setting) preventing clipping the input.
Increasing the gain at the amp. 
Playing the sweeps at a pretty high but clean level.
It calibrates very nicely. 
Some hiss is showing but... is tomorrow challenge.


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

I could not get a noise free signal with de ms2 between the Hu and amp.
Any tip?
Thanks!


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Pxa aux in after the headunit, using a sub standard level source signal? Yup, that will make a noisy situation.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Try defeating the EQ and check for noise. If the noise is louder with the EQ on, then some of it may be caused by a bunch of treble boost. If that's the case, try the +3dB setting on your tweeters if you're using a component system that includes that adjustment.


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

The noise seem to be a ground loop.

Could it be a problem with the 3,5 jacks? *if I pull it out a bit the noise is gone.


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Try defeating the EQ and check for noise. If the noise is louder with the EQ on, then some of it may be caused by a bunch of treble boost. If that's the case, try the +3dB setting on your tweeters if you're using a component system that includes that adjustment.


Is not just hiss, is heavy noise...


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

Update:
I was just a GLoop. 1 cent of cooper and its gone.
Working fine between the HU and amp.
Happy user!


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

Very interesting to find one and using it for my iPad or PSP. 

The question is if I got another processor along the chain could it be overkill to turn on both of them?


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

cajunner said:


> what's overkill?
> 
> too much A-D, D-A, A-D, D-A for ya?


Heheheh...funny, 

I mean could it be add some noise from the analog to digital and digital to analog processing? 

Just curious since I've got full active processor directly from Head Unit to power amps and speakers.


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

cajunner said:


> so, you want to put the MS-2 in-between the iPad and the active deck, using the aux input?
> 
> there wouldn't be a reason to do it, unless you're having problems with the way your deck is processing the signal.
> 
> ...


Thank you Cajunner for brief explanation.

For your info I don't have any problem with my current setup. I just want to fulfil my curiousity about MS-2. Maybe I should turn off all the time alignment and equalizer from my main processor and only let my active cross over setting. So by doing this I could knew what kind of processing that MS-2 has.


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

cajunner said:


> it would be cool for someone to put one of these on an Audio Precision so we can get an idea of what it does in noise/thd specs.
> 
> then, how good the internal mic and FIR filter fix response irregularity, maybe even get an idea of how many points of adjustment are available and a range.
> 
> and finally, head to head with a new DSP running in 2 channel mode, to show the algorithm.


Yeah that will be interesting to see the algorithm. Maybe it's just the same as MS-8 target curve.


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## billybarty (May 26, 2012)

I have a BMW E90 and have been looking to improve on the disappointing quality of the the mid-level ("Hi Fi") audio package that it came with.

I originally was looking at the MS-8, but the cost (including a custom harness) was just too high. Based on what I've read here (thanks to Andy and all others who have posted!), I bought an MS-2 from Amazon, as I can put it in the signal path from my ipod while retaining the BMW/Apple integrated control path. I'm really impressed with what Andy and his team have accomplished!

While I'm really happy with the improvement in the sound image and clarity, I feel like the midrange and bass are getting set too low, giving the sound an artificial / treble-heavy sound. I was hoping that Andy or one of you other MS-2 users might be able to give me some tips to better perform the calibration.

My system doesn't have a separate powered subwoofer, but it does have under-seat woofers. Should I have the "sub" light on or off after I calibrate (which I do with it off as you directed here)? Are there any other calibration techniques that you can suggest to help me get better balanced sound?

Thanks for any tips or suggestions!


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

Don't be shy on trying some "creative" mic positions. 
In my car, mic next to my right elbow get the best imagine and tonality. Yes, low and centered. 
Is a very powerfull processor used right.
Is you have a sub, disconect it. 
Sometimes, setting the HPF a bit high and lower it after calibracion, tells the DPS to add some extra juice down low.

The sub "light" must be off during cal.


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## billybarty (May 26, 2012)

Thanks so much for the tips. I'll try different placements (including near the center armrest, where you got the best results) when running the calibration.

My car audio itself (stock BMW) only offers the bare minimum adjustments: Bass +/-, Treble +/-, Fade Front/Rear. I'll also try turning the Bass down during calibration, then turning it back to mid-point after calibration to see if that helps.

Any other advice would be welcomed!


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## billybarty (May 26, 2012)

Priced dropped to $79.99 shipped at Amazon


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## Mrkool44 (Feb 13, 2013)

I have a 09 bmw 335i sedan with a hifi 676 system...i added a 12" alpine sub and 1000w amp in trunk, so the bass is great, but the mids are really weak from the stock components, overall the music sounds mostly bass n treble.

The car has four 4" components and four tweeters and 2 8" subs under front 2 seats.

I just ordered the MS2 from Amazon along w some 3.5mm cables.

I listen to only MP3 music - which I currently burn on a data cd to play in my HU.

Am I limited to using the ms2 with an mp3 player ? Or can it hookup to my HU ?

Will the ms2 adjust settings on my sub in the trunk or only the factory subs under the seats?







Thanks


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

Mrkool44 said:


> I have a 09 bmw 335i sedan with a hifi 676 system...i added a 12" alpine sub and 1000w amp in trunk, so the bass is great, but the mids are really weak from the stock components, overall the music sounds mostly bass n treble.
> 
> The car has four 4" components and four tweeters and 2 8" subs under front 2 seats.
> 
> ...


Recently in February 16th, Andy clearly explained to me during MS-8 and MS-2 Coaching Clinic that we can hookup our Head Unit as long as we accept the limitation of 1.0 volt input source. 

To tell the truth.

I'm amazed by the simplicity of JBL MS-2. You can have great sound in your car and it took only 1-3 minute to set up this baby properly.

Thank you Andy you are such a great person. You are most welcome in Indonesia.

Best Regards

Wendo


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## Mrkool44 (Feb 13, 2013)

asawendo said:


> Recently in February 16th, Andy clearly explained to me during MS-8 and MS-2 Coaching Clinic that we can hookup our Head Unit as long as we accept the limitation of 1.0 volt input source.
> 
> To tell the truth.
> 
> ...


I got the ms2 a few days ago and have been playing with it quite a bit, after reading this thread, i was really hoping to see some improvement in SQ, but i was disappointed :/

Results: Makes my stereo system sound worse

My bmw system is a stock hifi 676 ( tweeters, 4" conponents, 8" subs underseats) + aftermarket 12" sub/ amp in trunk.

After following instructions, my bass sounded worse. It really cut down on the deep low freq bass from songs and made it sound more like "cheap flat bass". And it made the music sound more flat, kind of hard to explain.
the midbass improved, but that maybe due to really poor bass.

The mids my music were louder and i did notice the sound coming from the center of the dashboard , as opposed to from side doors, which i liked.
But the bass and midbass were pretty poor compared to without ms2.

Overall, the quality of sound was much better WITHOUT ms2

I did the setup about 15 different times, trying all sorts of diff settings and even manually adjusting a few times after setup.

i will attempt to disconnect my sub and run ms2 setup again, see if there is any improvement in SQ when in a totally bone stock stereo.



My setup was done like this:

Fader front at +8

Bass all the way down -10

Mp3 player volume 75%. ( manual says 100% volume, which produced distorted sound, had to cutback vol )

Aux Vol input on HU: set to 4/6. ( if i maxed this, i got distorted sound also)

Treble: +7

Sub light on ms2 OFF

HU volume between 50-85% of full.

Held ms2 0-6 inches away from my face in drivers seat and hit setup.


Did i do anything wrong in the setup? Any ideas?


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## Mrkool44 (Feb 13, 2013)

cajunner said:


> I think your stock system was a couple of pay grades higher than what the MS-2 was designed to shape up, soldier...
> 
> if you had a simple 4 corner full-ranger stock system and you found the MS-2 didn't help you out, I'd wonder, but you already have a customized system with speakers mounted in 3 very different places in the car, and MS-2 was designed to work best on 1 placement, the time alignment from the sub out in the trunk is not going to "get right" if you have underseat woofers adding in, I think you're asking 6 people to fit in a 2 seater..


I was just trying the ms-2 based on a tip from another BMW owner and the MS-2 is advertised to work on ALL cars, is it not?

I am not here to bash MS-2 - I'm just posting my results for my setup.

I did like the "image" function which made the music sound as if it was coming from the center of my dashboard...but the flat bass and "artificial" sound just didn't cut it for me.


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## Rossi (Dec 21, 2016)

Bumping up old thread.

If I am to buy JBL MS-2, for my budget car with OEM head unit (with aux and USB input), and 4 full range speakers.

Can this thing work if i want to play music directly from OEM head units (USB and CD), and not using any portable like Iphone or portable player?


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rossi said:


> Bumping up old thread.
> 
> If I am to buy JBL MS-2, for my budget car with OEM head unit (with aux and USB input), and 4 full range speakers.
> 
> Can this thing work if i want to play music directly from OEM head units (USB and CD), and not using any portable like Iphone or portable player?


The signal has to be sent directly into the MS-2 to work. You don't necessarily need a portable player, but the 3.5mm jack in the MS-2 needs to receive the signal directly.


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## Rossi (Dec 21, 2016)

rain27 said:


> The signal has to be sent directly into the MS-2 to work. You don't necessarily need a portable player, but the 3.5mm jack in the MS-2 needs to receive the signal directly.


Thanks..


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