# SQ System Veteran Help



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Im new, and a rare woman breed here on the forum I hope!
I would love to heed a veterans advice here on my system. Literally, I will be purchasing what you advise from my general want and input. This may be considered foolish, but I don't have a frame of reference anyways to know any better and if I don't like it, I can always sell it off to my friends

Needs: Going active in this system, want good presence. Ideally, the song I want to blow me away is a bit orchestra like with lots a deep string and quick detailed strokes (bear with my description). I need it to keep up.


Subwoofer already will be in a 1.43^3 ft net volume ported box tuned to 30hz

Would Love a SQ Amp capable of running the system, but not to complicated in its on board controls.

Please, list it out with a little reasoning. Once everything is decided I'll throw a thread of install and review! *Play to win*!!

EDIT: Oh budget w/out install ~~$1500, 2 if you convince me.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

If you live in So. Calif. we are having a meet Saturday Feb. 23 you can get a good idea of what the different setups sound like.


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

First you want to figure out how you want to process everything. Alpine h701 is the easiest since you can do everyhting at your fingertips. Id suggest finding a used W200 as your HU. 

For components, you need to find out what sizes you need and if you want to go 2way or 3way up front.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

bobditts said:


> First you want to figure out how you want to process everything. Alpine h701 is the easiest since you can do everyhting at your fingertips. Id suggest finding a used W200 as your HU.
> 
> For components, you need to find out what sizes you need and if you want to go 2way or 3way up front.


I would like three way as I have a stock 3 way in now. However, the mid is a bit small with only a 3 in outer diameter mount. Trim trim maybe. And I'm working with 1 din slot, so no double din screen


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Any builders?


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## simplespirit (Jun 5, 2005)

This is what I've put together over the last month or so:

Alpine ida-x001
RF 3Sixty.2
PG Xenon x200.4
PG Xenon x600.1
Pioneer PRS720 mids
SEAS neo tweets
ID8 sub

I bought some new and some used, total is under 1500 without install. Only thing is this is a 2 way. 

To do a 3-way active you'll need 6 channels for the comps + whatever for subs. Looks like 1 sub so you'd need at least 7 channels of amplification. Maybe do 2 4-channel amps with 1 lower power covering mids/tweets and a higher power doing the midbass and bridged to a sub. I'm not as deep into this as some of the guys on here so they'd probably be better for recommending equipment.


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## MiniVanMan (Jun 28, 2005)

Honestly we need to know what kind of processing you plan on using. The H701 does come to mind as one of the few processors out there than can handle a 3-way front stage, plus a subwoofer. I'm not the expert on that unit, but it's very capable, and will eat up a good chunk of your budget. 

As for speakers. That's not always as easy as just recommending something. However, here are a few suggestions. 

For your midrange, since you're limited in size, look at some of the Tang Band offerings in the 2" and 3" range. I'd suggest a metal cone of some sort due to your listening preferences. Here's a great option. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-842

For the midbass, the L18RNX by Seas comes to mind. Will match up nicely to that TangBand driver, and provide a very nice and revealing bottom end. Midbass is snappy, accurate, and not at all bloated which is common when running IB in a door.

For a tweeter, there are a ton that would do. Especially if you go with that Tang Band 3". The Aura NT1 is a little gem. No frills tweeter that does exceptionally well. Especially when considering the measly price of just under $9.00 each. http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pr...=1767&osCsid=71e9b1c8ed23f6b25a077a9d3b1eac7d

That would put you in the realm of around $200.00 for drivers. So, around $400-$500.00 for a processor, $200.00 for drivers leaves $800.00 for installation products, and amps. Plan on about $300.00 for installation accessories, so that leaves about $500.00 for amps. 

Hope this helps.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

for the midrange you would be hard pressed to beat the Focal Be 3. Anything less and it is a pissing match for which one performs "best for the dollar" which is an ultimate compromise regardless. The Be's are simply no nonsense great performance. regardless of the money. The tangs might be worth $30, but frankly I think I could dedicate a little more of my budget into the #1 hands down most important piece of gear you'll be installing.

I'd cheap out on the tweeters and the amplifiers. Something like the seas neo or rainbow cal26. There are others. with the Be3 nearly any tweeter will do just fine. I prefer smaller and smaller cones. The amplifiers Would be a pair of 4 channels, same manufacturer, same model. take your pick, folks here will have reasonable recommendations. No Audison, No Arc, No Zapco. Not at $1500. there are better places for the money. Like a good midrange.

take your pick for midbass. I'll let other folks name favorites.

I'd say you've got two obvious choices for the radio. alpine with the 701 or the clarion drz9255 unit. Both will process a 4 way stereo including subwoofer and be a comparable price. I prefer good looks so my inclination is towards clarion.

pick a subwoofer. you cant go wrong.

Finally, go to a california meet and sit in the cars. find one you like. ask the driver what design factors or tuning resulted in a particular aspect of the sound you liked. emulate.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Peerless 6.5 SLS
HAT L3 or L4
HAT l1 or Seas Neo
HU-9255 or H701

Amps Option 1-Take a look a the new Zapco I-Force

Option 2-I would watch and find some amps in the for sale section or ebay.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

Just to throw out a couple of alternatives to your original description. For 1,500 - 2,000 you may have more success with the K.I.S.S. principle. To limit the number of drivers or amp channels two options would be.

Go active 2 way and leave your midrange installed but disconnected. No one will ever know it's not part of what's making those beautiful sounds. In this scenario you can use a relatively inexpensive single din h/u without the need for a separate processor. Maybe something like this:

Option #1
Alpine 9887 h/u = 320
SEAS neo aluminum tweeters = 70
Peerless exclusive 7" mids = 160
Arc Audio KS 900.6 (4 x 60 & 1 x 550) = 650
Sub depends on what sound you are looking for i.e. 
Detailed and well integrated SQ - DIYMA 12" = 120
More banging SPL - Ask for suggestions 500 watt 4 ohm = 150

Go passive 3 way. Less amp channels required. You can still use the relatively inexpensive single din h/u with no outboard processor. Not as flexible as option #1 but easier to setup.

Option #2
Alpine 9887 h/u = 320
Rainbow Audio SCL 365 Kick (3 ways) = 430
Arc Audio KS 300.4 (2 x 90 & 1 x 350) = 340
Same sub options as above (still 4 ohm load) = 120

Option #1 = $1,320
Option #2 = $1,210

Spend the rest on a good amp install kit, sound deadening for your doors, and installation. Maybe even enough left over for some music as well.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Perhaps two 4 channels, for amplification ? I think ribbons would add a certain "Je Nes Sais Quois", to your top end !  

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23439&highlight=zuki+eleets

excerpt}
11-07-2007 #1 
finebar4 
DIYMA Contributor




Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 430 


iTrader: (1)
Zukified 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First of all.....NO Internal shots I am a man of my word ) 

Let's start the story with a little bit of background. I am a EET, work as a field service engineer for a major medical manufacturer, drive between 60-80,000 miles a year, and have been into car audio sine the mid 80's when it first started to take off. I have owned everything from Coustic to Audison, from Macrom to Mcintosh, and competed in a few SW Fla Iasca events in the late 80's - early 90's. Never won anything, but it was an incredible learning experience. By 92 my second child was born and other things took priority (diaper's, formula, next month's rent........) so I put away my grand delusions of building the loudest standard cab truck and stuck with smaller scale affordable gear for many years. As I have aged and grown, my taste has gone from quantity to quality, and I like my music clean and detailed, not just loud. 

I have always used off-the-shelf equipment, but with the advent of the interwebz, I have become fond of small internet companies with the all important customer service factor helping guide my choices. My first jump off the deep end was a SoundSplinter RL-p. I picked one up in a group buy and was immediately impressed with what a small company could give me (great customer service, a great product, and a realistic price). I now run with a Stereo Integrity Mag, bought Sundown amps for my son last Christmas, and love the level of personal service you get with every purchase (big props to Mark, Dave, and Jake respectively). Not that you can't get great service from big brand distributors (Manny, Don aka 6spd are a couple I have had very pleasurable dealings with) and even Companies like Zapco and Boston Acoustics are realizing that there are secret society audiophiles that hang out in places like this and have been hanging out with us rubbing shoulders and answering all our questions. Big Kudos to the smart ones who know where to find us. I have been very lucky so far, so why not roll the dice and see what I can find in amps. This Zuki guy has taken his fair share of lumps.......but.....there are a few people that have his amps and like what they got......hmmmmmmm.

With the CO get together on the very near horizon, and me wanting something totally different, and the fact that I had bought some of Patricks CD's and was blown away...what the hell. Here is where I was at Saturday morning (CO meet was Sunday at 1:00 PMish)


There is a thick couple 3 layers of well cured Sound Spectrum Sludge (Ant sent me a quart to try out and I love the stuff.

A few hours and a couple trips to Home Depot later and I was done rerouting the power distribution, mounting the amps, and was down to hooking up everything and testing her out. Sunday morning (day of the meet) and I was running around like a madman. I needed y cables for the Eleets since I was running bridged and these are basically 2 amps in one chasis with isolated inputs, had to get all the power connected and flat ran out of time before I had to leave for the meet. 

I had zero tune and tweek time, just straight out of the box. I was very happy to hear no noise, and in fact, even with very little tweeking these damn things have some potential. Monday......was a whole different day. I had to drive from Denver to Casper and back (5 hours one way) and had the time of my life.

VERDICT:

The Eleets are incredibly clean amps. I pulled an Audison VRx 150 and a Adcom 4402, and after a little tuning I can't say they sounded any better than these. The dynamic range and the effortless way they handle big peaks still blows me away. I am running bridged so I have 10 watts to each Lotus mid and 10 to each Tweet and that is almost too much. Getting happy with the gains can be a fatal mistake (no I haven't blown anything up, but I could hear the groaning and complaining at a quarter turn). After a 2 hour LOUD marathon, the mid amp was pretty toasty(kinda like my old RF's would get), but the tweeter amp was barely warm to the touch. Tonality wise, again with very little tuning (less is always better in my book), they are very neutral reproducing only what is there and not coloring anything to mask weakness in another band. Power wise, they are packing 60 amps worth of fuses as they seem to be high current machines, and even when blasting, can hit hard peaks without breaking a sweat. Image and staging are still being dialed in, but I can say today I saw dead people Freddy Mercury has never been so alive on my dash/hood, Janis Joplin was serenading me in a smoky little bar, Jim Morrison was right there in the cab of my truck riding shotgun, doesn't matter what you throw at them (from Humpty Hump to some opera cuts on a XRCD sampler) they will reproduce exactly what is on the recording (like my Audison.... almost to a fault) and do so in a MOST pleasing manner.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> Perhaps two 4 channels, for amplification ? I think ribbons would add a certain "Je Nes Sais Quois", to your top end !
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23439&highlight=zuki+eleets
> 
> ...


That Zukiaudio is another great option. For under $2,000 going 3 way active still sounds like a challenge. The h/u will need to be expensive or outboard processing = $600 minimum? 2 Eleets = $810. Leaves $590 for 6 drivers, a sub and all the bits and pieces. I would go a different direction. Just my .02 cents.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Backwoods has heard his fair share of amps, too ! 

excerpt}


Re: What amps are you using ? 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehatedguy 
1 HSS Fidelity HT230 all tube class A SET amp. 


just seeing the name listed makes me feel all warm and tingly... 


as of this week:

2 zuki eleets 4 channel amps
Rf T1000

On the way in:

Zapco DC1000.4 (chad's got me stoked about playing with this one)

waiting for a perfect spot:

Genesis Dual Mono
Brax x2000.2
Brax H400

Currently in other vehicles..

(2) PPI PC 2600
PPI PC21400

all chrome, baby...

and the wifey's sporting some Quart amps.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

KDame, Are you handy with fabrication both electrical and install realted or is install going to cut into your final price?


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

i agree with the KISS principle. just sooooo much easier to get sounding incredible at a fraction of the cost. here's what this humble hillbilly would do...
go to your local alpine dealer and get this unit so you'll have local support. the peace of mind is worth the extra cost.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5756 $430
for your tweets...
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=907 $350
mids...
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1596 $375
the best system i've ever heard was an acura tl with the above drivers. of course install and tuning plays the biggest roll in how it sounds but having nice drivers is definately a good start. now you're at $1155 so that leaves you with $345 left. add in $140 for a roll of raammat and an extra bit for some ensolite so $200? you'll want to talk to rick at raamaudio.com about deadening. now for amps and subs, talk to jacob fuller (sundownz on this forum) about 2 4-channels (one to bridge to the mids and the other to run sub and tweets with) and see if his line of subs will work in the box you have available. we're prolly at the $2000 mark now but i promise you will have a superb sounding system as long as the install is good and the tuning is good. some of the socal guys would most likely be more than happy to help out.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

If I were starting from scratch and this was my 1st high end system I would do a 2 way passive with a single sub. Keeping with the K.I.S.S. principle these would be my personal choices. 

Alpine 9887 h/u = 320
Do all the processing, minus the passive crossover, from this.
You may even be able to use the IMPRINT kit to "automatically" tune your system. It's an option but you can live withot it.
Rainbow audio CMX 265 Kicks passive 2 way = 380
DIYMA reference 12" sub = 125
Toss or sell your enclosure n have a sealed one made by someone here on the forum. Baltic birch n stained would be nice. = 125
Zukiaudio Eleets 4 channel = 405

Total system cost = $1,255
The sound and the ease of getting it right = PRICELESS


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

dbest2918 said:


> If I were starting from scratch and this was my 1st high end system I would do a 2 way passive with a single sub. Keeping with the K.I.S.S. principle these would be my personal choices.
> 
> Alpine 9887 h/u = 320
> Do all the processing, minus the passive crossover, from this.
> ...


then she could always biamp the passives (if they're capable) to time align each driver separately. my mids and tweets are about a foot from each other in the doors and if i delay both to the same value my system just sounds funky. separate ftw. once she gains knowledge and the bug REALLY gets her she can go fully active with that set and maximize the drivers potential then it will be no stopping her from there.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

dbest2918 said:


> If I were starting from scratch and this was my 1st high end system I would do a 2 way passive with a single sub. Keeping with the K.I.S.S. principle these would be my personal choices.
> 
> Alpine 9887 h/u = 320
> Do all the processing, minus the passive crossover, from this.
> ...


My bad. Typing before thinking again! I just bought a pair of DIYMA subs so I have them on the brain. To bridge the Zuki Eleet and drive a single sub I think you may need a DVC (dual voice coil) to give the amp a 1 or 2 ohm load so it has some umpapa. The DIYMA 12" is a SVC (single voice coil) 4 ohm load. 
You may look at an Image dynamics IDQ12. A DVC 4 ohm will give the amp a 2 ohm load and a DVC 2 ohm will give the amp a 1 ohm load. You may want to ask someone with an Eleet which would be preferable.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> i agree with the KISS principle. just sooooo much easier to get sounding incredible at a fraction of the cost. here's what this humble hillbilly would do...
> go to your local alpine dealer and get this unit so you'll have local support. the peace of mind is worth the extra cost.
> http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5756 $430
> for your tweets...
> ...


Good Choices.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

As Michael suggested, maybe you can come to the meet and hear a variety of setups. Since you are suggesting running 3 way, you might be able to hear the HAT 3 way with a 3" mid and small format tweeter. One of my favorites


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Ok I havent gotten a chance to read all the responses but my gosh, thanks soo much fellas!! 

Install won't factor into the budget described, somebody asked that. Let me go through what all you giuys posted. I cant wait! I want to have such a kick ass sound. Ever since i was little, i wanted to have a quality system that would raise the hairs on the back of your neck!!


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

If there is a damsel in dis dress, I'm there


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

a$$hole said:


> If there is a damsel in dis dress, I'm there


Hahaha   Distress....not quite yet, maybe when a power cord (or drill) is in my hand....

"i agree with the KISS principle. just sooooo much easier to get sounding incredible at a fraction of the cost. here's what this humble hillbilly would do...
go to your local alpine dealer and get this unit so you'll have local support. the peace of mind is worth the extra cost.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...duct_ID=57 56 $430
for your tweets...
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=907 $350
mids...
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1596 $375" -*HillbillySQ*
Lets build around this. Obviously, 2 way will be easier for me so thats fine. Another concern, my mid woofer is a good 2 feet from my tweet, so that has to be kept in mind.

The drivers are 8 ohms? What should I power the system with?

I dont think most places are open monday per the holiday, so tues will be ordering day!

edit: im going to call him c$ashm$ney  instead of A$#^&#%...so use the zuki to power em? What will bring this set alive>?


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

you could do the zuki amps but you really don't need to spend that much for great sound. and you might consider getting a new sub enclosure built to put something like an id12 in (from woofersetc) 2 identical 4-channels should do the trick. here's a thread you might find interesting.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Hahaha   Distress....not quite yet, maybe when a power cord (or drill) is in my hand....
> 
> "i agree with the KISS principle. just sooooo much easier to get sounding incredible at a fraction of the cost. here's what this humble hillbilly would do...
> go to your local alpine dealer and get this unit so you'll have local support. the peace of mind is worth the extra cost.
> ...


The Alpine h/u will do the x-overs for a 2 way, but going active you will still need more than 4 channels of amplification (1 each + sub). If the drivers are 8 ohms that will roughly 1/2 your rated amp power, give or take. I would think you "need" at least 100 x 4 for the front stage. That still "only" gives you 50 at 8 ohms to the mids. You still need to power the sub 400-500 watts. This is the conundrum? It means either 2 separate amps or a 5-6 channel. 2 Zuki Eleets ($810), you could bridge both channel pairs for the mids, that would use up 1 amp. The other Zuki Eleet you would bridge 2 channels for the IDQ sub and the other channel pair would be for the tweeters. Your tweeters won't require too much power even at 8 ohms. I'm not sure where we are at within your budget, I lost track. This would surely raise the hairs though!


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

and i forgot to touch on your drivers being kinda far apart. if you aren't familiar with tuning i STRONGLY suggest you let one of the forum members in your area that's good at tuning have their way with your system.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> ..... have their way with your system.



HahaaHAA   

Thats most likely what will happen. 

The h/u, tweets, and drivers bring us to $1055. I like the IDQ12 since I actually heard that one and thats 280, and lets say the enlclosure is ~130, so were at $1465. 


I want to have two identical 4 channels so thats our debate, but I really want to power this gear perfectly and open them up.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> HahaaHAA
> 
> Thats most likely what will happen.
> 
> ...


You may be able to squeeze a few dollars out of that. An Alpine 9887 should be around 320 new. If you went for the IDQ12 version 2 you could get one for under 200 new. Remember the DVC 4 ohm for the Zuki Eleet in bridged mode. The enclosure out of mdf shipped will be well under 130, less than 100 out of baltic birch shipped I believe. We're gettin close now.
This is what I'm talking about in my other post. Just could just throw in the towel and pony up for the 2 Zuki Eleets. $810 brings you to $2275. You may have to drink boxed wine for a few months but you will have some nice sounds doing it.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> You may be able to squeeze a few dollars out of that. An Alpine 9887 should be around 320 new. If you went for the IDQ12 version 2 you could get one for under 200 new. Remember the DVC 4 ohm for the Zuki Eleet in bridged mode. The enclosure out of mdf shipped will be well under 130, less than 100 out of baltic birch shipped I believe. We're gettin close now.
> This is what I'm talking about in my other post. Just could just throw in the towel and pony up for the 2 Zuki Eleets. $810 brings you to $2275. You may have to drink boxed wine for a few months but you will have some nice sounds doing it.


Where are the specs for the eleets? I think to do that, i would have to drink boxed wine before I click "confirm order"  With enough input, I might just have to spring, unless something equivalent can be found. Any thoughts?

Once again, thanks fellas for all your input. I promise to post picks and what not once anything we discussed comes in.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

let's see, you can go cheaper than the eleets and still get good sound. a pair of the 5x4 amps would be just fine more than likely. zuki rates them at 8 ohms with the gains all the way down at an insanely low thd.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Where are the specs for the eleets? I think to do that, i would have to drink boxed wine before I click "confirm order"  With enough input, I might just have to spring, unless something equivalent can be found. Any thoughts?
> 
> Once again, thanks fellas for all your input. I promise to post picks and what not once anything we discussed comes in.


After the first glass, the next few go down smooooth.
The specs for the Eleets are a subject of considerable debate on this forum. Even getting dimensions for them is homework. Do a search on them here and start reading. Some of the guys that have heard a lot of uber high quality amps swear by them. With 2 Eleets you will have plenty-o-power.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> let's see, you can go cheaper than the eleets and still get good sound. a pair of the 5x4 amps would be just fine more than likely. zuki rates them at 8 ohms with the gains all the way down at an insanely low thd.


EDIT: srry dbest just answered my questions when I posted.


I love wine so drinking its no prob.. 

So were decided on the head unti, tweets and driver-->check
sub IDQ version 3, I dont mind springing for it -->check
Enclosure, will deal with after order-->check

Amps- 2xeleets = 810, Im just hesitant as their so new. The only quality eqiup I have heard are Audison.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Where can I see the zuki's and specs?


Like I stated in a previous post specs are not Zuki's strong suit.

http://www.zukiaudio.com/


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> Like I stated in a previous post specs are not Zuki's strong suit.
> 
> http://www.zukiaudio.com/


Ok lets pass on the eleets.

Lets look at some other amps, 4 channel as I'm familair with them   , that will send the power neccessary on a for sure basis. Again, no disrespect for the suggestions. We need 2 identical ones also.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

check with sundown audio


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Ok lets pass on the eleets.
> 
> Lets look at some other amps, 4 channel as I'm familair with them   , that will send the power neccessary on a for sure basis. Again, no disrespect for the suggestions. We need 2 identical ones also.


Were back to a previous suggestion that I made for Arc Audio amps.
KS 300.4 (90 x 4) @ 4 ohm roughly 45 x 4 @ 8 ohm = $340
KS 500.1 (600 x 1) stable into both 1 and 2 ohm loads = $410
Both class H.
Both the same size (13" L x 8" W x 2 3/8" H).
Both Robert Zeff's newest designs.

P.S. I just ordered an Arc Audio SE 4200 & SE 2300, so I think they are the shiznits.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> check with sundown audio


Hillbilly--you have essentially built my system!

What power per channel should I be looking for to power the mids and tweets.

Im still reading about sundown and arc...so will get back to you on that


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

for the idqv3, 300-500rms
for the mids and tweets a good 100rms or so per but idealy you could get 2 identical 4-channels in the 100x4 range and bridge one to the mids and let the other run the tweets and subs. you REALLY want some good headroom on the mids. gotta have some power left in the bank for those transients a lot of classical music has.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

now that i think about it for what you're going after i'd get a pair of the small zuki 4-channel amps and hook them up in the way i described above. the people running them say they're pretty orgasmic


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> P.S. I just ordered an Arc Audio SE 4200 & SE 2300, so I think they are the shiznits.


  Hahaa

Ok I'm going to take a look at the arc and sundown, and do a compare/contrast with an audison Im familair with. Ill pos soon again...


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> now that i think about it for what you're going after i'd get a pair of the small zuki 4-channel amps and hook them up in the way i described above. the people running them say they're pretty orgasmic


Are the small ones you mention the same ones priced 405 on their site, or are those the bigger ones?


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Ok lets pass on the eleets.
> 
> Lets look at some other amps, 4 channel as I'm familair with them   , that will send the power neccessary on a for sure basis. Again, no disrespect for the suggestions. We need 2 identical ones also.


I personally think that for the money you will be making a mistake passing on the Zuki Eleets. Take a little time and do a couple of searches on this forum. You can also post what you are currently thinking in terms of tweeters, mids, and subs and someone who owns these amps will be able to give you 1st hand advice. When I stated that specs were not Zuki's strong suit in no way did I mean that they are not extremely capable of high current audiophile sound, I was merely stating that the company is not big on published specs, ratings, ect... It's all about their sound capability. Everything that I have read from the people who have owned and/or listened to them is that they are blown away.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> I personally think that for the money you will be making a mistake passing on the Zuki Eleets. Take a little time and do a couple of searches on this forum. You can also post what you are currently thinking in terms of tweeters, mids, and subs and someone who owns these amps will be able to give you 1st hand advice. When I stated that specs were not Zuki's strong suit in no way did I mean that they are not extremely capable of high current audiophile sound, I was merely stating that the company is not big on published specs, ratings, ect... It's all about their sound capability. Everything that I have read from the people who have owned and/or listened to them is that they are blown away.


What made you go for the Arc's opposed to the Zuki's?


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> What made you go for the Arc's opposed to the Zuki's?


I already had a fairly high end system in my previous lease car. Removed it from the lease car to turn it in. The new system that evolved for me after swapping lease cars ended up rather involved after upgrading different components.
I ended up with the following:
Alpine W205 h/u.
Alpine H701 processor.
Peerless HDS large format tweeters.
SEAS W16NX mids.
2 DIYMA 12" subs.

Again going into the needs for processing and amp channels/power ratings. I needed a 4 channel with approx. 100wpc. for the front stage drivers. You can get this 50 ways to Sunday.
I also needed to drive the 2 DIYMA subs, so about 1000-1500 watts mono. In order for me to do the Zuki Eleets I would have needed either 3 of the small 4 channels or the small 4 channel + the HUGE mono for 2000+. The Zuki Eleet small 4 channel would have been plenty for my front stage because the mids are 4 ohm models and the tweeters don't need that much power to get insanely loud. So like you I went shopping for matching amps with my power requirements and appropriate channels. I would have been able to do the Arc Audio KS 300.4 & KS 1000.1, but I just happened to find the SE series amps very lightly used for a "decent" price. The Zuki amp is $405 and the Arc Audio SE amps list at $1,399 each.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918; The Zuki amp is $405 and the Arc Audio SE amps list at $1 said:


> Yikesss
> 
> Your explanation makes perfect sense. From what I read, its not possible for me to be unsatisfied with an Arc or Suki. I may just have to step on the ledge and try the Zuki for myself, unless a remarkable deal arises and I go your direction dbest.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

cajunner said:


> it's nice seeing what people are thinking, when pressed for the details.
> 
> surely this much emphasis on amplification is bringing the focus of this exercise into bias, I'd prefer to try a closer approximation to the budget, this zuki talk has me scratching my head, as why is it so important to use them, if it's going to break the bank?


you're right. isn't there a good deal going on for cadence amps? those would get the job done and probably sound really good doing it.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

cajunner said:


> it's nice seeing what people are thinking, when pressed for the details.
> 
> surely this much emphasis on amplification is bringing the focus of this exercise into bias, I'd prefer to try a closer approximation to the budget, this zuki talk has me scratching my head, as why is it so important to use them, if it's going to break the bank?


Not sure what that is in reference to. I would hate to see someone pass on a product that may be truly exceptional, merely because I stated that the specs were not there strong suit. Which I did not mean to represent the specs on the amps themselves instead of the availability of published specs. Clear as mud ain't it.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> Not sure what that is in reference to. I would hate to see someone pass on a product that may be truly exceptional, merely because I stated that the specs were not there strong suit. Which I did not mean to represent the specs on the amps themselves instead of the availability of published specs. Clear as mud ain't it.


I know I understood it.   
Ok is the small 4 channel zuki the same one on their site?

If so, we now have the amps I'll use. I can budget it in.  

I guess we have the subwoofer choice left, unless we can prove the IDQ version 3 wrong.

But please if we want to keep the amp discussion open, I am willing to listen. I wont order things until monday or so


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

the idv3 should be a winner. however there's a million options out that would do just as well. it's all personal preference. i'm currently running an arc 12 and love it. you can find them on ebay for under a hundred from time to time.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

KDame said:


> I know I understood it.
> Ok is the small 4 channel zuki the same one on their site?
> 
> If so, we now have the amps I'll use. I can budget it in.
> ...


KDame, 

This is where we seperate the might have been amplifiers from the "this is my" amplifier  

At the top on a full on run ,...
excerpt}
Power wise, they are packing 60 amps worth of fuses as they seem to be high current machines, and even when blasting, can hit hard peaks without breaking a sweat.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> I know I understood it.
> Ok is the small 4 channel zuki the same one on their site?
> 
> If so, we now have the amps I'll use. I can budget it in.
> ...


Yes the small ones are listed on the site for $405. I don't believe that you can do better for anywhere near their price.

As for the sub selection.
What type of music do you listen to?
What type of sound are you looking for out of the sub? Clear articulate and well blended with the front stage? Little more bump? Pound the neighbors until they file a report?
What kind of vehicle is it going in?
Lots of sub choices out there.

On a different "note" you could save a little scratch on the tweeters and probably get the same or better sound if you can fit a large format. Peerless HDS are $60 each. The HDS gets fab reviews. Not that the Scans listed are not fine but they are $170 each.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> Yes the small ones are listed on the site for $405. I don't believe that you can do better for anywhere near their price.
> 
> As for the sub selection.
> What type of music do you listen to?
> ...



What determines the large format tweet? The tweets will be in A pillars that can be manipulated quite well. I purchased a second set of a-pillars for my SUV just for tweet install   

You described my sub want, Clear articulate and well blended with the front stage with a potential for little more bump


Heres a brief review of what we have so far for new viewer purpose:


H/U: CDA-9887 @ $300
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5756

Tweets: Scan-speak D2904/6000-00 28mm dome tweeter, 2 for $339.90
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=907

Midwoofers: Seas Excel W18NX-001 @ $375
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1596

Amp power: 2 of the Zukiaudio Eleetes Four Channel for $810
http://www.zukiaudio.com/

Subwoofer: IDQ12V3.D2 @ $279.00
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6224


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

cajunner said:


> the thing about zuki as 'the sweetness' is the whole come hither in the courtship, I know it's fine to hide the curves under a fancy dress, or understate the obvious, but can you say it's worth dropping over half the funds on amps?
> 
> I didn't know that they held that much difference in the final application compared to maybe putting some optical in or something else, like peripherals, you know how much those decent quality interconnects run, and then there's the power wire, and the speaker wire, and the fiberglass and the grill cloth and the .....


I agree with what you are saying. That is the nature of an active system. You need x amount of channels total. Then you run 8 ohm drivers so you need a little bigger amp or something bridgeable for the mids. Then throw in the power for the sub(s). You end up spending a bigger percentage on amplification. I have not seen any recommendations for amplification with the needs listed that are significantly cheaper alternatives.
In an earlier post I threw out some options on a single 4 channel with passive 2 ways and a single 12" sub. Cheaper, easier to setup, still super high quality.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

if you want to save some money on the tweets i'm running these with excellent luck. i'd consider them 80% of what the scans can do at less than half the price. just throwing them out since you said you could possibly manipulate a large format tweet in there and the flange and mounting diameter is smaller than most of the other large format tweets out there.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=567
they're honestly the best tweets i've personally used to date. best i've heard in an install were the scans i originally recomended.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> What determines the large format tweet? The tweets will be in A pillars that can be manipulated quite well. I purchased a second set of a-pillars for my SUV just for tweet install
> 
> You described my sub want, Clear articulate and well blended with the front stage with a potential for little more bump
> 
> ...


The large format tweeter has a larger housing and larger faceplate. They are recommended as being superior in almost every regard. They handle more power, dispersion is better, and cross over lower in octave. If you already have a-pillars to customize I would highly recommend the Peerless HDS. As an added bonus they are $220 cheaper.
The sound you described is the IDQ12d4 you could do either the version 2 or 3. I think its about $100 different.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

cajunner said:


> you're right, it's a numbers game, and it's the flex that comes with the advanced technologies, I'd like to say that this wasn't diy best, but it is, and comparing a great pair of pre-packaged components against the zuki active, scan/seas is like beating your head against a brick if it's got to have those things going against it, such as an a-pillar tweet locale, and distance between the mids/tweets...
> 
> good deals notwithstanding, it's getting into twice the allotted scratch to get out with deadened doors and extraneous goods.


Absolutely. And that's why we love it. Most shops can throw in a good set of components, a 4 channel and a single sub, and get some pretty good sound out of it. If we didn't think we could do better we wouldn't be here on this forum. Besides it's hours of good reading to figure out what half this stuff even means. Fs of drivers, crossover slopes, time alignment, ect... Let alone trying to understand how to properly implement the ideals. Just lots of good clean fun.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

keep in mind you get what you pay for. i'm sure the op is getting pretty overwhelmed right about now. it takes money to do a "do it and forget it" system. however, doing it right the first time can and will be cheaper in the longrun. right now she has to pairs of much cheaper tweets to choose from that could come really close to the scans if tuned right and seeing how much the amplification is gonna cost i didn't realize how much she was about to get thrown her way. we could cut it down on the sub and amps also but as for the mids i feel the nextels are the king of diy car drivers. she doesn't "need" something as high-end as zuki or arc but again you get what you pay for in this hobby no matter which way you look at it.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> What type of music do you listen to?
> 
> On a different "note" you could save a little scratch on the tweeters and probably get the same or better sound if you can fit a large format. Peerless HDS are $60 each. The HDS gets fab reviews. Not that the Scans listed are not fine but they are $170 each.


I love listening to full, intense movie themes, or directly speaking, the bourne ultimatem soundtrack especially the string instruments in the train scene   

By the pics, it actually appears the d2904's will fit better, but I'll manipulate it in any way to get what I listen to, to be perfect.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> keep in mind you get what you pay for. i'm sure the op is getting pretty overwhelmed right about now. it takes money to do a "do it and forget it" system. however, doing it right the first time can and will be cheaper in the longrun. right now she has to pairs of much cheaper tweets to choose from that could come really close to the scans if tuned right and seeing how much the amplification is gonna cost i didn't realize how much she was about to get thrown her way. we could cut it down on the sub and amps also but as for the mids i feel the nextels are the king of diy car drivers. she doesn't "need" something as high-end as zuki or arc but again you get what you pay for in this hobby no matter which way you look at it.


You hit the nail on the head. This is one time buying and forgetting. I doubt I'm going to dislike what we have discussed. I dont want to keep doing install changes and upgrades blah blah  

I really want this system to follow me into the next vehicles! Plus, I could only squeeze this out while my ears are good and time exists before I graduate.

Oh and blow away my guy friends that think a stock 3 way is superb hehe


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

wow you must not be very old then. i'm 25 and have some hearing damage from clocking A LOT of hours on a rear engine snapper with the 11hp between the age of 3 (rode on dads lap) til the age of 7-14 when i rode it by myself on 1.5 acres of land. and i never wore earplugs. top that with other loud noises from various hillbilly activities and well...:blush:


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

The large format tweeters can be slightly modified to come down to just over 3" dia. What size and location was your factory midrange? So Kdame where are we at with your system so far?
If I was keeping score it would be:

Alpine 9887 = 300
2 Zuki Eleets = 810
SEAS mids = 360
Peerless HDS tweeters (my opinion) = 120
Image dynamics IDQ12d4 version 3 = 280
Enclosure for above = 100

$1,970 total.
Right at the upper number without install. This system is not entry level audio. I don't think that you will want to change your equipment for a long, long time.

P.S. Check your door locations and make sure you can fit the SEAS mids. Sound deaden the doors. And don't forget to post your pictures. While your at it you can post some pictures of the system too lol.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> The large format tweeters can be slightly modified to come down to just over 3" dia. What size and location was your factory midrange? So Kdame where are we at with your system so far?
> If I was keeping score it would be:
> 
> Alpine 9887 = 300
> ...


  Ok, I promise to do a pose pic with all the stuff ! 

My factory doors allow 6.5's and tweets will take some work. Im actually thinking of putting this all in my sedan. Will that affect the sub play being in the sedan trunk?

And I dont want to change it, ever. I want to do install next weekand tho. What install gear do I need? How many RCA's (I dont want to make this into an accessories thread tho..lol) My buddie will help me with this part, but I dont want install equipment to be lthe limiting factor


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> wow you must not be very old then. i'm 25 and have some hearing damage from clocking A LOT of hours on a rear engine snapper with the 11hp between the age of 3 (rode on dads lap) til the age of 7-14 when i rode it by myself on 1.5 acres of land. and i never wore earplugs. top that with other loud noises from various hillbilly activities and well...:blush:


Who was this rear engine snapper that damaged your hearing? It sounds like I should try some of em so called hillbilly activities.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

dbest2918 said:


> Who was this rear engine snapper that damaged your hearing? It sounds like I should try some of em so called hillbilly activities.











this is a SLIGHTLY newer model than the one i clocked so many hours on. i had the handlebars where you could turn on a dime 

back on track though...
3 sets of rca cables long enough to get from your headunit to the trunk of the car with some slack for play.
4awg amp kit for 2 amps (check out the kicker kits on ebay )
you'll want to fabricate a rack for the amps
that's about it for now. oh, you'll need a dash kit for your headunit and the required wiring harness. i STRONGLY recomend you run a 14 or 16awg fused power and ground directly to the batt for the headunit. prolly wanna run a 4 or 8awg ground from your batt neg to engine block then the same size wire from your batt neg to the frame.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> this is a SLIGHTLY newer model than the one i clocked so many hours on. i had the handlebars where you could turn on a dime
> 
> back on track though...
> 3 sets of rca cables long enough to get from your headunit to the trunk of the car with some slack for play.
> ...


You realize the seat on that thing is so fresh and clean in comparison!!    

Thanks for the Install advice. I'm not really good on what size fuses I'll need for the head unit on 14 g tho. Once I list all the stuff, I'll post up for final review. Then maybe we can get to the equipment


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

KDame said:


> You realize the seat on that thing is so fresh and clean in comparison!!
> 
> Thanks for the Install advice. I'm not really good on what size fuses I'll need for the head unit on 14 g tho. Once I list all the stuff, I'll post up for final review. Then maybe we can get to the equipment


a man's gotta keep his butt clean 

a 10amp fuse will be fine inline with the positive wire for the headunit. for the 4awg i'd do a 100amp fuse under the hood and a 50amp fuse for each run of 8awg going to the amps. once installed, you can meet up with one of the cali people to let them do the fine tuning. make sure you get as good of front/backwave isolation as possible. basically you want the mid to think it's in a giant sealed enclosure.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Ok, I promise to do a pose pic with all the stuff !
> 
> My factory doors allow 6.5's and tweets will take some work. Im actually thinking of putting this all in my sedan. Will that affect the sub play being in the sedan trunk?
> 
> And I dont want to change it, ever. I want to do install next weekand tho. What install gear do I need? How many RCA's (I dont want to make this into an accessories thread tho..lol) My buddie will help me with this part, but I dont want install equipment to be lthe limiting factor


The sub will be fine in your trunk. Lots of installs that way. The advantage you have is the IDQ12 is very good in a small sealed enclosure. Still have some room left for other stuff. Double check the depth for the mids in the doors or post what you have and someone may be familiar with it. You may need to have a baffle (adaptor) made to mount the mids. 1/2" or 3/4" mdf will work great.
There is a member on this forum that runs Timber audio. They have all the drivers that are listed and you will probably even get some help, suggestions, from him. I hope that plug will get me a discount next time. 

http://www.timbre-audio.com


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> The sub will be fine in your trunk. Lots of installs that way. The advantage you have is the IDQ12 is very good in a small sealed enclosure. Still have some room left for other stuff. Double check the depth for the mids in the doors or post what you have and someone may be familiar with it. You may need to have a baffle (adaptor) made to mount the mids. 1/2" or 3/4" mdf will work great.
> There is a member on this forum that runs Timber audio. They have all the drivers that are listed and you will probably even get some help, suggestions, from him. I hope that plug will get me a discount next time.
> 
> http://www.timbre-audio.com



Hmmm...maybe if I order it all through hmm i could get it shipped free lolol

Its going into a c230 sedan, if that at all helps.

I appreciate that reference though thank you. I'll post final needs list soon with pricing.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Hmmm...maybe if I order it all through hmm i could get it shipped free lolol
> 
> Its going into a c230 sedan, if that at all helps.
> 
> I appreciate that reference though thank you. I'll post final needs list soon with pricing.


You may want to start a new thread with a title like; SEAS W18NX mid setup. Just to peak their curiosity. They are some sweet and very popular mids. Then pounce on them in the body with will it fit my C230 factory door openings . And what do I need to cram em in? The new thread will bring out people that have used them. The guy at Timbers name is Dylan and he is a regular on this forum. He is also very helpful. Can't go wrong sending him your needs and seeing what he can do. Mention this forum.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

http://www.cardomain.com/search/results?keywords=c230+sedan

there are pics of Mercedes C230 sedans ^^^^^

They look pretty nice, as seen here...


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

dbest2918 said:


> Who was this rear engine snapper that damaged your hearing? It sounds like I should try some of em so called hillbilly activities.


I'm curious about them hillbilly activities myself; what comes to my mind I can't post.


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## simplespirit (Jun 5, 2005)

dbest2918 said:


> I agree with what you are saying. That is the nature of an active system. You need x amount of channels total. Then you run 8 ohm drivers so you need a little bigger amp or something bridgeable for the mids. Then throw in the power for the sub(s). You end up spending a bigger percentage on amplification. I have not seen any recommendations for amplification with the needs listed that are significantly cheaper alternatives.
> In an earlier post I threw out some options on a single 4 channel with passive 2 ways and a single 12" sub. Cheaper, easier to setup, still super high quality.


You could get 2 PG Xenon x200.4s (1600 watts total) for probably 5-600. They have twice the fusing of the Zuki for whatever that's worth. I don't know much about the Zuki's but I do know that personally, I doubt I could tell a difference.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

a$$hole said:


> http://www.cardomain.com/search/results?keywords=c230+sedan
> 
> there are pics of Mercedes C230 sedans ^^^^^
> 
> They look pretty nice, as seen here...


Those are some very fine mids! Almost on the verge of being woofers.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

simplespirit said:


> You could get 2 PG Xenon x200.4s (1600 watts total) for probably 5-600. They have twice the fusing of the Zuki for whatever that's worth. I don't know much about the Zuki's but I do know that personally, I doubt I could tell a difference.


Don't sell yourself short. Humans have some pretty acute hearing. You don't have to be an expert to pick what sounds better to your ears.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

a$$hole said:


> http://www.cardomain.com/search/results?keywords=c230+sedan
> 
> there are pics of Mercedes C230 sedans ^^^^^
> 
> They look pretty nice, as seen here...


HHaaa yeah, the car looks nice doesnt it... 

Heres a laundry list. I overshot budget by 500 but what the heck, I'll see what I can workout of my pocket by monday.


H/U: CDA-9887 @ $330
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...duct_ID=57 56

Tweets: Scan-speak D2904/6000-00 28mm dome tweeter, 2 for $339.90
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=907

Midwoofers: Seas Excel W18NX-001 @ $375
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1596

Amp power: 2 of the Zukiaudio Eleetes Four Channel for $810
http://www.zukiaudio.com/

Subwoofer: IDQ12V3.D2 @ $279.00
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...duct_ID=62 24

KTX-100EQ Imprint Sound Manager CDA-9887 @ $179.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/KTX-100EQ-Impri...ryZ79841QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Enclosure @ $120

Rockford Fosgate RFI-16' FT RCA Cable Wire 2 Channel x 3 for $51.87
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rockford-Fosgat...ryZ94845QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


JL AUDIO XA-PCS4-2 4 GAUGE POWER WIRE KIT @ $75.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/JL-AUDIO-XA-PCS...ryZ71528QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Receiver Wire Harness @ $14.99
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=103000&i=120709003&tp=2977

Total = $2573


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> Those are some very fine mids! Almost on the verge of being woofers.



hahahahaha Im still laughingg


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## dtviewer (Dec 18, 2006)

All good advice in this thread so far. I've found what really helps to get the best sound is if you start by posting pics of yourself in various pieces of lingerie.....

Or, another option is that you could always go to the meet the guys are setting up on the 23rd and see what sounds best to you.:blush:


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

looks good. i'm running a mixture of jl and rf power and ground wire and it's nice. i can't see you doing any better for the money. you could get cheaper with knukonceptz but the quality just isn't there in my honest opinion.


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> HHaaa yeah, the car looks nice doesnt it...
> 
> Heres a laundry list. I overshot budget by 500 but what the heck, I'll see what I can workout of my pocket by monday.
> 
> ...


You only need a dash kit, and may need an antenna adaptor. Both cheap. i almost forgot, Sirius satellite adaptor?, Ipod adaptor cable? I love helping others spend their money like so many have helped me. Your system will be a beast, a beast I tell ya.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> You only need a dash kit, and may need an antenna adaptor. Both cheap. i almost forgot, Sirius satellite adaptor?, Ipod adaptor cable? I love helping others spend their money like so many have helped me. Your system will be a beast, a beast I tell ya.


I really hope it will be a beast. I suspect a radio antenna would be neccessary. Any other care to comment on the proposed sound?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Buy it now on 9887

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Alpin...ryZ39750QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Buy it now on Imprint

http://cgi.ebay.com/ALPINE-KTX-100E...ryZ14932QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Didn't know if savings would be worth it to you, so I listed these for you to make the call !


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

The headlights just jump right out at you, and the tires and wheels, let you know this cat has some serious grip for tight maneuvres  

Ideally, the sound system will be just as beautiful so that you become one with the vehicle as you take in the curves and enjoy the view


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Im new, and a rare woman breed here on the forum I hope!
> I would love to heed a veterans advice here on my system. Literally, I will be purchasing what you advise from my general want and input. This may be considered foolish, but I don't have a frame of reference anyways to know any better and if I don't like it, I can always sell it off to my friends
> 
> Needs: Going active in this system, want good presence. Ideally, the song I want to blow me away is a bit orchestra like with lots a deep string and quick detailed strokes (bear with my description). I need it to keep up.
> ...


I have some high end used equipment from my last install that would have fit your original requests for a 3 way active system perfect. An 8 channel A/D/S amp that will do 120 x 2 & 40 x 4, a JL Audio 500/1 mono amp, and a pair of JL Audio 10w3's sealed. I never even brought this up because I think the direction that you are going (2 way active) will sound better for around the same price. Your current system plans will also be much, much easier to get sounding perfect. Self sacrifice for the betterment of another's audio bliss. Maybe that will earn me some audio karma of my own.


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

Kdame, I see you are back online. Some more food for thought. As for the Alpine Imprint kit that you have listed on your shopping list, you can purchase this anytime if you feel it will solve certain problems with your tuning. I believe this kit plugs into the front of your Alpine h/u, so you don't have to reinstall anything.

A young girl, living in Cali, with an interest in high end car audio! You will be able to get assistance from people who will vastly better the performance of the Imprint results.

From my reading the Imprint kit has only 3 choices for system response. Once you save this choice of settings you are unable to tweak it further. It is pretty much locked in. There are plenty of people on this forum that will provide you with the initial procedures for tuning your system. They will be able, based on your particular equipment choices, to recommend the initial crossover frequencies, ect... to get your system sounding pretty good right out of the box. I would wait on the Imprint kit until you absolutely feel it will improve what you have.

Back to my other concern, your tweeter selection, when matching with the Zuki amps. Although I have no doubt that the Scan 2904/6000 is a first class tweeter, I question whether it will be great match for the Zuki.
Not considering money as the deciding factor I would think that these would be better choices:
Hiquphon OW1 large format.
Peerless HDS large format.
SEAS neo aluminum small format.
LPG small format.
Considering that they are all less expensive that the 2904/6000, that may just be icing on the cake.

Out of morbid curiosity I started another thread on this exact issue titled;
Zuki Eleets tweeter recommendations
You may want to give it a quick read.

IMO using an amp with a smooth upper end response you will want to mate it to a tweeter with more extended upper end extension.
A) Extended amp + extended tweeter = My porridge is TOO hot.
B) Smooth amp + smooth tweeter = My porridge is TOO cold.
C) Smooth either + extended either = My porridge is just right.

If you are looking for a very laid back sound A may be just right.
If you are looking for a very bright sound B may be just right.


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> Hiquphon OW1 large format.
> Peerless HDS large format.
> SEAS neo aluminum small format.
> LPG small format.
> ...



Wow, you didn't need to overextend yourself on this one, but I really appreciate you noticing that potential cold porridge!! 

I'll have to read that thread you made and see what people are thinking. I also took the time and contacted Patrick, but in regrads to the original tweeter decision. I really want option C. Let me check out that thread and I'll be back.

Hmmm, I think Hillbilly suggested that HDS as well...


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Wow, you didn't need to overextend yourself on this one, but I really appreciate you noticing that potential cold porridge!!
> 
> I'll have to read that thread you made and see what people are thinking. I also took the time and contacted Patrick, but in regrads to the original tweeter decision. I really want option C. Let me check out that thread and I'll be back.
> 
> Hmmm, I think Hillbilly suggested that HDS as well...


I would absolutely listen to advice from Patrick. Who better than a guy who designed it and has listened to it EXTENSIVELY. What was your take on the Imprint kit?


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> I would absolutely listen to advice from Patrick. Who better than a guy who designed it and has listened to it EXTENSIVELY. What was your take on the Imprint kit?


I emailed Patrick last night just past midnight and he returned my email at 1:15am letting me know he would analyze the potential setup in the morning. That's crazy fast.

I agree with you on the Imprint kit. It was really just toyesque for me lol When everything is setteled in, I will arrange a tuning session.

On the tweets, I really would like to make sure its a tweeter with more upper extension to counteract what you discovered about the eleetes amp.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

hmm...you could solve the tweeter issues with the seas neo textile. i'm late meeting a friend to shoot skeet but someone else could link you to it. basically the seas neo textile would be a great off axis small format tweet for what you're doing and it has an extended top end. before anyone says it, i didn't like the neo aluminum at all but the textile was great OFF AXIS.


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> hmm...you could solve the tweeter issues with the seas neo textile. i'm late meeting a friend to shoot skeet but someone else could link you to it. basically the seas neo textile would be a great off axis small format tweet for what you're doing and it has an extended top end. before anyone says it, i didn't like the neo aluminum at all but the textile was great OFF AXIS.


Neo textile huh? would this be competitive quality with what we have concluded? I would love to compliment what we have as perfectly as possible with not to great of a roll off anywhere.



Laundry List again for viewing:

H/U: CDA-9887 @ $330
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...duct_ID=57 56

Tweets: *STILL TO BE DISCUSSED, the former option is below*
(((( Scan-speak D2904/6000-00 28mm dome tweeter, 2 for $339.90
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=907 )))))

Midwoofers: Seas Excel W18NX-001 @ $375
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1596

Amp power: 2 of the Zukiaudio Eleetes Four Channel for $810
http://www.zukiaudio.com/

Subwoofer: IDQ12V3.D2 @ $279.00
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...duct_ID=62 24


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Neo textile huh? would this be competitive quality with what we have concluded? I would love to compliment what we have as perfectly as possible with not to great of a roll off anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Quite a few people who have reviewed the SEAS neo tweeters prefer the aluminum version to the fabric version. Can you fit a large format tweeter? Maybe in your factory midrange location. The Peerless HDS mounting flange is around 4" in diameter. The mounting flange can be trimmed to just over 3" if it's necessary.


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> Quite a few people who have reviewed the SEAS neo tweeters prefer the aluminum version to the fabric version. Can you fit a large format tweeter? Maybe in your factory midrange location. The Peerless HDS mounting flange is around 4" in diameter. The mounting flange can be trimmed to just over 3" if it's necessary.


It would be tough, but I may just be able to squeeze that in with some help. Can you link me specs page, and I'll take a closer look. Would this be an intuitive choice to counteract the eleets roll off?


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=403&products_id=695


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> It would be tough, but I may just be able to squeeze that in with some help. Can you link me specs page, and I'll take a closer look. Would this be an intuitive choice to counteract the eleets roll off?


Yes. Either the HDS or SEAS neo aluminum. I'm not sure that you can characterize the Zuki as having a roll off. I don't want anyone to take it out of context. Based on the reviews they could be well matched to a more extended tweeter. 

http://tymphany.com/datasheet/pdf/pl/810921.pdf


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> Yes. Either the HDS or SEAS neo aluminum. I'm not sure that you can characterize the Zuki as having a roll off. I don't want anyone to take it out of context. Based on the reviews they could be well matched to a more extended tweeter.
> 
> http://tymphany.com/datasheet/pdf/pl/810921.pdf


Its rather large, but if its the optimum tweeter to blend along with the midwoofers and amplifier, then it should be highly considered.

I'll be able to hold off the final decison until late this evening, then we can only wait for shipping to really find out if it fits the perfect fit lol   

But please, anyone feel free to jump in with experience. The more the merrier, and the better I can create the sound I'm looking for.


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

a$$hole said:


> http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=403&products_id=695


Benefits with that tweeter other then the size? 

I see availability is zilch lol


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

C'mon fellas...Im getting this tonight !!   

What are we thinking for tweeters?

Hiquphon OW1, OW4?

Peerless HDS (I cant find where to buy them)

or just make an attempt with the Scan-speak D2904/6000?

Or any others for last attempt?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

since the scan tweet already heavily considered is smaller than the cheaper large format models being discussed i'd do it afterall. you can always boost 16khz and fix any rolloff problems. and the 2904/600000's i heard nearly tore my ears apart with their top-end but they also had 500rms EACH of zapco dc reference power.


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> since the scan tweet already heavily considered is smaller than the cheaper large format models being discussed i'd do it afterall. you can always boost 16khz and fix any rolloff problems. and the 2904/600000's i heard nearly tore my ears apart with their top-end but they also had 500rms EACH of zapco dc reference power.


Wow's that alot of power.

I found the Peerless HDS here http://www.timbre-audio.com/Peerless.html

And so now I sit and ask myself should I pay the $220 extra for the scanspeak D2904/6000...  

Is there a tremendous audible difference?


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

http://www.ellisaudio.com/hiquphon.htm


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

a$$hole said:


> http://www.ellisaudio.com/hiquphon.htm


c$shm$oney  , I take you mean OW1   

oR....


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

KDame said:


> c$shm$oney  , I take you mean OW1
> 
> oR....


i completely forgot about those. they can supposedly play really low and have a great top-end. and a .75" dome can play higher off axis before beaming. replace the scan with the hiquefon ow1 and you'll be set and a MUCH cheaper cost.


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> i completely forgot about those. they can supposedly play really low and have a great top-end. and a .75" dome can play higher off axis before beaming. replace the scan with the hiquefon ow1 and you'll be set and a MUCH cheaper cost.


And a sigh of relief    

Then its set.


----------



## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

Not to be a wet blanket on the badass equipment you've chosen, but you're going to waaaaaaay overshoot your budget. You need to focus on sound deadening before you continue with your planning. You're probably significantly underestimating wiring cost as well. Just my >$0.02.

I doubt I have as much experience as anyone here, but I've been trying to plan out a budget system for my broke ass, and it adds up a lot faster than you might think if you refuse to cut corners (robust sound deadening, wiring, etc.).


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> And a sigh of relief
> 
> Then its set.


Hiquphon OW1's should be a fantastic match to the rest of your equipment. These should really shine with the Zuki's. I think that you will be extremely pleased with these as opposed to the Scan 2904/6000. Better match and saved some scratch! You can always trim the mounting plate to install them. Don't forget before and after photos and a full review in detail of your completed system. You have some serious equipment planned. Can't wait to hear how you love it.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

ok, as others have said you don't need the imprint. i'd still get a roll of raammat from www.raamaudio.com and deaden your front doors. other than that you should be good to go.


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Alright Fellas, I have ordered everything we discussed officially, however, even with the prolonged discussion of attempting to match the tweeter to the Zuki amp, I have chosen 2 Audison amps in their place. I couldn't go through with it.

So here are the 2 amps I chose and their relative specs, with intentions of how I will use them.

Amp 1- Audison Lrx 4.300

http://www.audison.it/prodotti.asp?idlinea=1&idprodotto=3&lang=eng

I will bridge both the front channels and rear channels to drive the Seas Excel W18NX's. The amp produces 210w rms @ 4 ohm, so I should be getting 105w rms to each midwoofer.

Amp 2- Audison VRX 4.300.2

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4293

I will use this amp in 3 channel mode to power each tweeter with their own channel, and the subwoofer bridged to the rear channels.

The subwoofer should recieve 380w rms at 4 ohms, and the tweeters 90 w rms at 4 ohms or about half if their 8 ohm.

Are the Hiquphon OW1 tweets 4 or 8 ohms???

Again I really do appreciate the debate and help with Zuki Amps, but the Italian men get me going    Let me know what you all think.


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Alright Fellas, I have ordered everything we discussed officially, however, even with the prolonged discussion of attempting to match the tweeter to the Zuki amp, I have chosen 2 Audison amps in their place. I couldn't go through with it.
> 
> So here are the 2 amps I chose and their relative specs, with intentions of how I will use them.
> 
> ...


Hiquphons OW1's are 8 ohms.

The Zuki may be an equal amp for 1/2 the money. If you are thinking Audison did you look at;

http://www.woofersetc.com/images/products/6237.jpg


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> Hiquphons OW1's are 8 ohms.
> 
> The Zuki may be an equal amp for 1/2 the money. If you are thinking Audison did you look at;
> 
> http://www.woofersetc.com/images/products/6237.jpg


Sure did, however, I got the amps new, with factory warranty, for 1/2 off   I couldn't resist!


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

you can get equal quality for a lot less if you go with something other than those audisons. it's your money but just stating my gut feeling. and i'm a big german so no italian in my thick blood


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## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Sure did, however, I got the amps new, with factory warranty, for 1/2 off   I couldn't resist!


Nice deal on those. 1/2 price new, that changes the bang for the buck equation considerably.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> Nice deal on those. 1/2 price new, that changes the bang for the buck equation considerably.


Honestly, that was the only influencing factor Even resale value would allow me to sell them and exchange should the sound not be where I want. 

Hooray beerr!


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

Is that the only combination of Audison amps that you can get the deal on? Just looked at the VRX amp Bridging that to just the mid's will give you 350 wpc? The LRX you are planning will put out 380 to the sub. IMHO I would run the better quality VRX on both the tweeters and mid's and if you can get "the deal" on it, buy the LRX 1.400 mono amp for the sub. Lots of options though, just thinking out loud.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> Is that the only combination of Audison amps that you can get the deal on? Just looked at the VRX amp Bridging that to just the mid's will give you 350 wpc? The LRX you are planning will put out 380 to the sub. IMHO I would run the better quality VRX on both the tweeters and mid's and if you can get "the deal" on it, buy the LRX 1.400 mono amp for the sub. Lots of options though, just thinking out loud.


The two listed were the last of his stock, so my only option and why such a great deal. If there is a better way to manipulate these in reference to what each one should power, please tell me. Lets try that first. 

If no luck and if I can wait  I'll sell off the LRx and try for something better suited


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> The two listed were the last of his stock, so my only option and why such a great deal. If there is a better way to manipulate these in reference to what each one should power, please tell me. Lets try that first.
> 
> If no luck and if I can wait  I'll sell off the LRx and try for something better suited


I'm sure you can get that combination to sound great. It's a deal too good to pass up. I want to know what you said to those "Italian guys". I might do the same as you have planned if using that combination. I'll sleep on that one.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

i think that pair of amps will be suited perfectly for those drivers. you have a pretty good distrobution of power going to each pair of drivers.


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

The Amps came in today fellas!

I was quite surprised how much heavier and bigger the VRx was! Their so preettyy!


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

You're one Lucky Lady !

Those are beautiful !


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Man, get a woman in here asking for help and everyone and their grandma wants to help out.  lol


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> Man, get a woman in here asking for help and everyone and their grandma wants to help out.  lol


Damn Straight Bi~atches!!!


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

KDame said:


> Damn Straight Bi~atches!!!


Where in Cali are you? Were you planning on making it to Marv's BBQ?


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

Man, even on the forums guys gang on the females! LOL There was a post by a guy on here where he laid out complete system options, setup and asked various opinions and got NOTHING as far as feed back, until I responded 6 days later. A female comes on and posts about creating a complete system and would like some feedback and BAM.....Hungry like the wolves, with invites no doubt!! testosterone never fails! LOL


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Yeah, 13 pages in 2 days has to be some kind of record. lol


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> Yeah, 13 pages in 2 days has to be some kind of record. lol


What would be funnier is if she is really a he!! LOL or if she came to an invite with a full fledged beard and cracking maybe three-fitty! LOL  Just kidding Kdame!


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

dbest2918 said:


> Those are some very fine mids! Almost on the verge of being woofers.


Angel Eyes !


----------



## drtool (Nov 26, 2007)

As long as she does not look like one of Chad's avtars. You know the mug shot of chick that just killed her boyfriend.


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

omg I laughed so hard reading thosee!! As much as I want to I cant do the BBQ. Im up in Palo Alto (by stanford)..  


I got some more equipment today Ill post up pics in a sec...and one proving I'm maybe a duece, duece in a half!


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Head unit, RCA's, Subwoofer came today!









































And proof...NO comments good or bad, its from my camera phone


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

KDame said:


> omg I laughed so hard reading thosee!! As much as I want to I cant do the BBQ. Im up in Palo Alto (stanford)..
> 
> 
> I got some more equipment today Ill post up pics in a sec...and one proving I'm maybe a duece, duece in a half!


We've got people coming from farther away than Palo Alto.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

KDame said:


> Head unit, RCA's, Subwoofer came today!
> 
> View attachment 4156
> 
> ...


You always drive with your leg on the door???


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Highly intelligent , confident and Angel Eyes  

Equipment is coming together nicely !


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> Highly intelligent , confident and Angel Eyes
> 
> Equipment is coming together nicely !


Hey, she said no comments, good or bad!


----------



## Mr Marv (Aug 19, 2005)

KDame said:


> omg I laughed so hard reading thosee!! As much as I want to I cant do the BBQ. Im up in Palo Alto (stanford)..
> 
> 
> I got some more equipment today Ill post up pics in a sec...and one proving I'm maybe a duece, duece in a half!


The BBQ is only about an hour and a half away from you in Monterey and you are welcome to come however I have a feeling you will be surrounded by these guys all day!   
Heres a bit of info on it
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25137&highlight=marv


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Oh Baby


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Mr Marv said:


> however I have a feeling you will be surrounded by these guys all day!


Hell no, you've got the food.  You my boy Blue!


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

There's so much going on here, I don't even know where to start...

Nice equipment choices. I'm assuming (because I'm not crazy enough to read all this stuff) that you chose what was suggested here, or did you make these choices on your own after hearing the gear?


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


> There's so much going on here, I don't even know where to start...
> 
> Nice equipment choices. I'm assuming (because I'm not crazy enough to read all this stuff) that you chose what was suggested here, or did you make these choices on your own after hearing the gear?


Oh yeah, everything chosen here was the debate of the forum. Thats why we talked for so long! And why I went out on a limb to get it all  

I can't be dissapointed.

Edit: Review for New fellas

H/U: CDA-9887
Tweets: Hiquphon OW1
Midwoofers: Seas Excel W18NX
Subwoofer: IDQ12V3.D2
Amps: Audison VRX 4.300.2 
Audison Lrx 4.300


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Looks like everything you have is extremely nice. I'll try to dig through this tomorrow so I can keep up later. 

I gotta get my wife into this, lol. She knows how to deaden some doors though!


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Here are the Amp Guts to the Audison VRx 4.300.2


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

And the guts for the LRx 4.300


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## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

KDame said:


> Head unit, RCA's, Subwoofer came today!
> 
> View attachment 4156
> 
> ...




Get the %#*^! out of here!! My wife is hot and I love her, but a chick thats hot and shows amp topology, while putting in a kick azz system.......divorce rate is high in America and this is just another reason! I can see it now, laying in bed at the end of the day talking to someone about how that nasty peak at 725 is bothering the crap out of me and what do you think I should try! LOL


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

KDame said:


> Head unit, RCA's, Subwoofer came today!
> 
> View attachment 4156
> 
> ...


Niiiiiiiiice! Keep the pics coming. You should put together a photo book of the before and after and install. You will not be dissapointed in those equipment choices. It will sound fantastic.


----------



## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> Yeah, 13 pages in 2 days has to be some kind of record. lol


Indeed....PATHETIC!!! 

Come on guys...what's the ulterior motive here?? Are we really ALL trying to get with KDAME? 

Don't take offense KDAME...this has nothing to do with you in particular, just your gender, hehe.

I went to college with an 80/20 guy/girl ratio....95/5 if you want to consider the cute girls, LOL. So I have an innate hate for this sort of behavior. 

Anyways, with women I'm always curious as to their preference of equipment because they hear differently than we do. They are more sensitive in high frequencies than we are...so I'd recommend tweeters that aren't bright. 

Given your low budget, I'd like to K.I.S.S. more. A solid 2 way set and a good amp, run passively for your front stage. For around $500-600, you could be 85th-90th percentile in this dept. 

PM me for details.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Have you really gotten 15 pages into planning n SQ install and only mentioned sound deadening once? I know the other stuff is sexier, but you're begging for disappointment unless all of this audio goodness is going into a vehicle that's already super quiet. Sorry if I missed something.


----------



## CGG318 (Apr 9, 2007)

*This:*



KDame said:


> And proof...NO comments good or bad, its from my camera phone
> 
> View attachment 4155


*Makes me look forward to this:*


KDame said:


> *Ok, I promise to do a pose pic with all the stuff ! *
> My factory doors allow 6.5's and tweets will take some work. Im actually thinking of putting this all in my sedan. Will that affect the sub play being in the sedan trunk?
> 
> And I dont want to change it, ever. I want to do install next weekand tho. What install gear do I need? How many RCA's (I dont want to make this into an accessories thread tho..lol) My buddie will help me with this part, but I dont want install equipment to be lthe limiting factor


*
Good luck with the install.*


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

KDame said:


> Its going into a c230 sedan, if that at all helps.


It very well may. Not certain about that model, but sedans of that class often have trunks that are very well isolated from the passenger compartment. Putting a sub in the trunk is ineffective. Infinite baffle is almost required.


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

Fellippe said:


> Indeed....PATHETIC!!!
> 
> Come on guys...what's the ulterior motive here?? Are we really ALL trying to get with KDAME?
> 
> ...



Don't take your crap luck in life out on us! LOL J/K

And whats with the K.I.S.S. ing comment!? And your talking about these other guys....must be your college days hang over!


----------



## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

dbest2918 said:


> Niiiiiiiiice! Keep the pics coming. You should put together a photo book of the before and after and install. You will not be dissapointed in those equipment choices. It will sound fantastic.



Come on....don't mislead the girl and propagate the propaganda! We all know or SHOULD know that good equipment is at most 20% of the battle. Installation is by far the most possibly detrimental factor. Better phrase would have been "It will _have the potential to_ sound fantastic".


----------



## dbest2918 (Dec 28, 2007)

Dillyyo said:


> Come on....don't mislead the girl and propagate the propaganda! We all know or SHOULD know that good equipment is at most 20% of the battle. Installation is by far the most detrimental. Better phrase would have been "It will _have the potential to_ sound fantastic".


Excellent point.


----------



## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

dbest2918 said:


> Excellent point.


Another reason to hate on car audio and move to home audio, where install is perhaps 15% of the battle...equipment and room 85%.


----------



## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

Dillyyo said:


> Don't take your crap luck in life out on us! LOL J/K
> 
> And whats with the K.I.S.S. ing comment!? And your talking about these other guys....must be your college days hang over!


If I'm guilty of anything, it's asking to kiss a girl , which is anything but homosexual. 

Gotta love written conversation versus spoken!


----------



## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> It very well may. Not certain about that model, but sedans of that class often have trunks that are very well isolated from the passenger compartment. Putting a sub in the trunk is ineffective. Infinite baffle is almost required.


Well with that in mind anyways, I have dedcided to do the install in my bf's car. It's an SUV and the install will be a lot easier then with the c230. Plus we drive that car a lot more and it has better security.

Oh did I mention his doors are deadened ducks! 

but shhh I haven't told him yet, and I have contacted Mr Marv about the enclosure! 

I think I'll be one up on him now!!!


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

KDame said:


> Well with that in mind anyways, I have dedcided to do the install in my bf's car. It's an SUV and the install will be a lot easier then with the c230. Plus we drive that car a lot more and it has better security.
> 
> Oh did I mention his doors are deadened ducks!
> 
> ...


Very nice surprise. Much better to have the sub sharing the same air space. Mr. Marv is the man for enclosures - like a fine piece of furniture. Who you calling ducks?


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## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

Fellippe said:


> If I'm guilty of anything, it's asking to kiss a girl , which is anything but homosexual.
> 
> Gotta love written conversation versus spoken!


You do know I was joking and understand the KISS principle?! If so then LOL


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## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

KDame said:


> Well with that in mind anyways, I have dedcided to do the install in my bf's car. It's an SUV and the install will be a lot easier then with the c230. Plus we drive that car a lot more and it has better security.
> 
> Oh did I mention his doors are deadened ducks!
> 
> ...


What are the chances I give you my house number and maybe you can try and convince my wife what a delightful present it would be for her to implement an entire high end audio system in her husbands car!!!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Rudeboy said:


> Have you really gotten 15 pages into planning n SQ install and only mentioned sound deadening once? I know the other stuff is sexier, but you're begging for disappointment unless all of this audio goodness is going into a vehicle that's already super quiet. Sorry if I missed something.



Being that no one even bothered to ask her what she drove for about 12 pages (and I think she offered that info, it wasn't asked) I'd say it's about right for this thread.  

Having said that, a Mercedes is pretty quiet anyway. I did my whole Passat and it dodn't make much difference.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Dillyyo said:


> What are the chances I give you my house number and maybe you can try and convince my wife what a delightful present it would be for her to implement an entire high end audio system in her husbands car!!!


Haha believe me he earned/s it. I really am a pain in the ass 

*Speakers are in!!*
Tweets: Hiquphon OW1
Midwoofers: Seas Excel W18NX-001


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

You're going to have a VERY nice setup when all is said and done. You gonna get someone on the WC to help you tune it?


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## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

KDame said:


> Haha believe me he earned/s it. I really am a pain in the ass
> 
> *Speakers are in!!*
> Tweets: Hiquphon OW1
> Midwoofers: Seas Excel W18NX-001




****z! If dealing with a PITA is the prerequisite to gratitude such as yours, then my wife owes me a complete car audio system and a set of obnoxiously priced $60,000 home speakers! What can I say.....she's a royal one sometimes! LOL


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Dillyyo said:


> ****z! If dealing with a PITA is the prerequisite to gratitude such as yours, then my wife owes me a complete car audio system and a set of obnoxiously priced $60,000 home speakers! What can I say.....she's a royal one sometimes! LOL



I'm sure I'm up there on the todem pole!  

So all were waiting for now is speaker wire. I might pick some up locally if it doesn't arrive by this weekand so install can be somewhat started.

Plus, subwoofer enclosure will probably be in the realm of 2 weeks! 

A fake floor in the rear area migh be a possibiliy too, it was suggested earlier today. I'll post the neccessary install pics as they come.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Quite simply, Beautiful !


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

a$$hole said:


> Quite simply, Beautiful !


Your down from you average 4 words C$shm$ney!!!


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

As one factor increases the verbosity decreases, beauty has the tendency to render me speechless !


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> As one factor increases the verbosity decreases, beauty has the tendency to render me speechless !


Down boy. Before you get too carried away, I have a confession to make:








That's me - pictures a little weird because a friend took it in B&W and then hand colored it, but yeah, I'm a dog and I can type! Takes me a while but I get my point across. You believe me don't you? I have a picture. I'm a rare breed on this forum too 

If this was a ploy to get extra attention, congrats - well done, although I think a gender neutral request may have gotten you there in a page or two. You're almost done with the easy part. Please keep us posted and ask if you have any questions during the install. If this was a role playing experiment, feel free to drop out of character. There will be a few red faces and much applause.



KDame said:


> As much as I want to I cant do the BBQ. Im up in Palo Alto (by stanford)..





KDame said:


> ...and one proving I'm maybe a duece, duece in a half!





KDame said:


> Haha believe me he earned/s it. I really am a pain in the ass


Either way, good for you and oh yeah, woof


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Down boy. Before you get too carried away, I have a confession to make:
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Hahaha nope nope, no red faces! Even Mr. Marv can now vouch for me!


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

KDame said:


> Im new, and a rare woman breed here on the forum I hope!
> 
> Needs: Going active in this system, want good presence. Ideally, the song I want to blow me away is a bit orchestra like with lots a deep string and quick detailed strokes (bear with my description). I need it to keep up.


The tweeters you have purchased will be able to keep up !


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

That rig is going to kill, have fun on the install and take your time!!!

Without reading every post and finding out... are you doing the install yourself, with help, or farming it out?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Did you read this ?
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1025
excerpt}

Seas Excel 

Perhaps the best way to characterize these mids would be to say they sound "real". The level of detail and clarity was just stunning, and a good measure beyond any of the other mids here. Bass was fast, punchy and had fairly good low end extension in my car doors. The only downside I could see was the severe cone breakup which ideally limits you to about 2khz or lower. Also, without properly dealing with the cone breakup you can expect the sound to be a bit colored, that is overly cold, analytical, and sterile. However, with that taken care of the midrange is just amazing. Crystal clear, smooth, and real sounding. Not very forgiving of bad recordings though, as they will bring out every painful detail.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

if you install all this in the bfs ride what happens when and if you break up?

put it in your car.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

60ndown said:


> if you install all this in the bfs ride what happens when and if you break up?
> 
> put it in your car.


good point, Luke !


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

60ndown said:


> if you install all this in the bfs ride what happens when and if you break up?
> 
> put it in your car.


Holy cat scat! I did not know it was in the Boyfriends ride!

Guys, seriously, if my wife comes on here wanting advice....

HOOK ME UP!!!!!!


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

60ndown said:


> if you install all this in the bfs ride what happens when and if you break up?
> 
> put it in your car.


Damn, ouch - and then she (pending verification from Marv) will learn from this experience and build a better system for her own car. She may anyway. Then again, we're all gone to die eventually, so maybe we shouldn't ever do anything?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

chad said:


> Holy cat scat! I did not know it was in the Boyfriends ride!
> 
> Guys, seriously, if my wife comes on here wanting advice....
> 
> HOOK ME UP!!!!!!


She did, you wanted all Audiobahn, right? Gonna be a lot of chrome in your future. Don't forget to thank us when it arrives


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## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> She did, you wanted all Audiobahn, right? Gonna be a lot of chrome in your future. Don't forget to thank us when it arrives


Actually, I can still get some left over late 90's Pyramid equipment! I think he would be MUCH happier with that!


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Dillyyo said:


> Actually, I can still get some left over late 90's Pyramid equipment! I think he would be MUCH happier with that!


As long as it all matches - if Chad has said it once, he's said it 100 times:


Chad said:


> I don't give a **** what it sounds like, as long as it looks good.


You may not agree, but you have to give the man credit for knowing what he wants


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## Fixtion (Aug 25, 2006)

*Statement*

hello kdame, welcome to the forums. it appears to be in full swing when someone is in need of help, esp. a lady such as yourself. good one fellas. great selection on gear, i personally own a pair of hiquphon OWii's, love them! i've heard great things about audidson, seas, and alpine. i've done a bit of investigation on the drivers(speakers) and specs to help provide helpful suggestion tailored to your setup and install. to keep things concise and helpful let's start with some helpful suggestions.

*suggestion.1.crossover*

*hiquphon owi*

crossover type: highpass
crossover frequency: 2khz @ 24db slope

*seas*

crossover type: bandpass
crossover frequency: 80hz @ 12db slope _and_ 2khz @ 12db slope

*image dynamics*

crossover type: lowpass
crossover frequency: 80hz @ 12db slope

*suggestion.2.amps*

setting gains is a tricky thing, some go by ear. other such as i go by electrical measurements. why? because by using electrical measurement to set gains you work within optimal parameters of the amps and can better dial in the full mechanical potential of the drivers you're driving. :] setting gains by ear may cause the following, reduction in longevity of amps, poorer quality, potential damage to drivers. so lets start.

audison lrx 4.300 is a great selection for the mids. now lets set the gains for the seas drivers. what do we need? what are we working with here? tools, specs, h/u, 1khz frequency tone.

*tools*: 
voltmeter, radioshack
*specs*:
requirements: seas 80w @8ohms
available: 105w @8ohms
need: ~80w @8ohms
*h/u*:
installed alpine unit
*frequency tone*:
1khz 0db tone, http://www.realmofexcursion.com/jmac/audio/0dB_wav_test_tones/1000 Hz.wav

*[process]* 

this will require an online tool to calculating voltage for target wattage/power requirements. http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=143

*input*, knowns
8ohms
target wattage for seas ~85w

*output*, unknowns
26.07v ~ 26.1v
3.25 A

*conclusion*
use the steps taken in the above link on setting gains. 
with a voltmeter your target voltage for 85w is ~26.1v every tenths of a volt counts!

*suggestion.3.installation*

*hiquphon*

personal experience with the driver has been phenomenal! i love the hiquphon products. personally like all driver the optimal installation position is on axis. if you plan on competing aim the drivers so they play best if you're seated dead center, if it's for personal enjoyment then aim to both ear respectively.

higher frequencies are shorter wave lengths therefore take short time to arrive at your ear and must be positioned at ear height. these hiquphons have extreme sound dispersion and the first reflections are the most important to absorb, and attention to detail should be taken to the treatment of the surrounding area. 

*seas*

no personal experience, and i'm sure there's plenty of reviews on here that may conflict or affirm my suggestions. specifications show these should play on a level match with the hiquphon on the suggested crossover points when positioned 60 degrees off axis, away from the listeners ear level. this is great for door positioning and should help in the natural increase of sound level from the range of 800hz to 2khz on the seas driver.

*Statement* *closing*
this information was both fun and enjoyable to investigate. hopefully this aids in relieving any buyers remorse and builds anticipation for a successful install to your liking. thank you and feel free to pm or post any questions you may have. other are also welcomed to send me questions on any of the above processes. :]

-fixtion


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

*Install Posts*

I’ll keep these next few posts as the official install, and not go into reactions and what not. I’ll also save details about my bf’s reaction to all the gear! He was out of town for the week it was shipped in so he had no clue until Friday evening! But boy did he work his butt off!

I began the day Saturday getting auto carpet, black in color for a false floor project. Originally, we were going to use the 1 cargo bin intact for amp placement, but the strength for support and size was unavailable. Additionally, the other driver side bin will be used for a custom enclosure for the yet installed IDQ12, so that was not an option as well. 

I’ll skip most of the work in progress shots, but we used 3/4in MDF and 3x3 wood inserts as support. The goal was to create a false floor capable of large weight bearing cargo while maintain integrity to protect the amplifiers. It would also provide thief deterrence maintaining a factory look while covering all the necessary amplifier wiring. 

The work lab (it rained all weekend here so we used a carport witht rear end of the car backed in):












Here’s an outline view of the floor:












Once measured and the top inserts made with brackets and the top not bolted down, "out the vehicle" look was something like this: 










Then we moved the floor into the Disco, and while raining I bumped my knee and hence, the face. I was also cold, raining, and its 10pm at night  :











We then set up the amps and wiring…. closed the tops and this is what turned out. Measurement went well as the space between the closed top and amplifier height was 1/4 an inch! The empty bin container on the driver’s side is where the sealed enclosure for the IDQ12 will go. 











With the amps:










And all said and done. That subwoofer enclosure will be leaving however!!












I’ll post the speaker install in the next post to keep post length down! The only additional thing my bf spoke of was a possible speaker like screen for ventilation. However, we did a 2 hr run with the amps fully powered and they were only luke warm


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Nice job, mad props to you and him !!


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

Looking good.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

How are you getting the heat away from the amps?


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

KDame said:


> I’ll post the speaker install in the next post to keep post length down! The only additional thing my bf spoke of was a possible speaker like screen for ventilation. However, we did a 2 hr run with the amps fully powered and they were only luke warm





chad said:


> How are you getting the heat away from the amps?


I didn’t have anything to do with the speaker install. Apparently and accordingly to my bf, Disco factory speakers actually mount to the interior of the removable door skin, not the actual metal door panel and he thinks this is the only car that does that crap. With that as a factor, he had to manipulate the install with 3/4in MDF baffles, dynamat, and 8in speaker grills. 

Like I said, I did nothing hehe:











Here’s a shot of the speaker mounted with all screws intact and MDF baffle entirely covered with Dynamat extreme. That allowed the iffy edges to be sealed appropriately apparently…. 










We had to use 8in speaker grill to compensate for the door cargo bin cutout and the additional outward speaker depth. 










Doors were previously deadened with spectrum sludge and damplifier. 











Tweeter install is temporary as my bf ordered another pair of a-pillars from a totaled disco for $20. Those will be used to send to someone for a nice pod fabrication? We haven’t thought it out yet. As of now, part of the speaker flare is off towards the windshield, however, the pillars interior can for their great depth very well. Here’s a tweet shot, and midwoofer down below. 










And the driver side tweet shot (temporary mounting).












Passenger side tweeter:










Inclusive shot w/ CDA-9887:












Oddly enough, we still need to get a DMM for gain setting, however, the tweeters are really loud towards 27/35 of volume and the gain is ALL the way down. We turned the gain up a tad for the midowwfers to keep up.

Now all we need is to tune tune tune   and wait for the sub install and enclosure


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

cmusic tutorial will help alot  [ tuning tutorial ]

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=98293

looking good !!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Temp issue... But you had mentioned it was cold (dunno what you assume as cold but judging by your attire cold for you is shorts weather for us ) So taking the ambient temp up in a car in the sun and adding that heat, and the fact that the volume may be higher to counteract road noise I'm feeling that they may be a bit stuffey. Mine is under a false floor (build pic, it's finished now) 








It has about 3/8" clearance to the bottom of the floor and with the fans off it runs toasty, in the cold it's fine but warm it up in there and I found it too hot for my taste.

3 things kill amplifiers.... Heat, improper load (causing heat), and idiots with screwdrivers


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

chad said:


> 3 things kill amplifiers.... Heat, improper load (causing heat), and idiots with screwdrivers


I got a screwdriver, let me show you how to set those gains  

Now we got some tub thump comin outta those subs


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

chad said:


> 3 things kill amplifiers.... Heat, improper load (causing heat), and idiots with screwdrivers


He'll probably have to add a vent or two in it as we plan to take several road trips. I think he mentioned cpu fans with vents on the non visible support sides towards the seats since he wants cargo on top and doesn't want a vent that could be covered or inhibited.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

ya know, for jsut relaying info from your BF you seem very knowledgeable. Have you been into this for a while? And you look a lot like a girl that used to compete back in the early to mid 90s. Weird.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

KDame said:


> He'll probably have to add a vent or two in it as we plan to take several road trips. I think he mentioned cpu fans with vents on the non visible support sides towards the seats since he wants cargo on top and doesn't want a vent that could be covered or inhibited.


Yeah, if you aren't running any crazy low impedances just turning the air should be enough. I went a different route and bathe the heatsink from the bottom with 3 larger fans, but I have them throttled back. I'm only running one amp though and the heatsink warrants this approach, could get tedious with more amplifiers of a different amplifier design like you have.


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

KDame said:


> I’ll keep these next few posts as the official install, and not go into reactions and what not. I’ll also save details about my bf’s reaction to all the gear! He was out of town for the week it was shipped in so he had no clue until Friday evening! But boy did he work his butt off!
> 
> I began the day Saturday getting auto carpet, black in color for a false floor project. Originally, we were going to use the 1 cargo bin intact for amp placement, but the strength for support and size was unavailable. Additionally, the other driver side bin will be used for a custom enclosure for the yet installed IDQ12, so that was not an option as well.
> 
> ...





KDame said:


> I didn’t have anything to do with the speaker install. Apparently and accordingly to my bf, Disco factory speakers actually mount to the interior of the removable door skin, not the actual metal door panel and he thinks this is the only car that does that crap. With that as a factor, he had to manipulate the install with 3/4in MDF baffles, dynamat, and 8in speaker grills.
> 
> Like I said, I did nothing hehe:
> 
> ...





quality_sound said:


> ya know, for jsut relaying info from your BF you seem very knowledgeable. Have you been into this for a while? And you look a lot like a girl that used to compete back in the early to mid 90s. Weird.



Nope this would be my first audio type purchases and his 3rd install, the other two being a friends and his formerly lol I really went up a step on him, but made him do all the work.


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## Mr Marv (Aug 19, 2005)

Hey K..just wondering if you received my email asking you to call me when you had a chance?


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## KDame (Feb 15, 2008)

Mr Marv said:


> Hey K..just wondering if you received my email asking you to call me when you had a chance?




NO! 

I'll call this afternoon, I get off work around 4. Is it the number below your postings?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

KDame said:


> NO!
> 
> I'll call this afternoon, I get off work around 4. Is it the number below your postings?


1-831-383-0308 ask for Marv


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

marv called me and toldme about this post...

if i can be of any assistance just email me: [email protected]

I believe i am 30 mins or so from you


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

KDame said:


> Nope this would be my first audio type purchases and his 3rd install, the other two being a friends and his formerly lol I really went up a step on him, but made him do all the work.


That sounds like something my wife would do to me.


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