# 06 Civic installation revamped and much better - many pics



## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Well its finally almost done and I suppose it is time to see what you all think about the revisions. I posted shots from my first installation (other than the one I did to my 1976 subaru.... installing a Craig Cassette deck with white fuzzy covered boxed speakers lol) almost a year ago now, but I didn't like it much. I used wood in a few spots - stained and suck... and it just didn't work out well. So, i started anew and this is how it turned out.










This is my baby - bought on halloween of 2005 and now sporting 57,000 miles. Given gas prices and the cars performance, I think its a great value car. In fact, my father recently passed away and in trying to seel his incredibly beautiful 20 Cadillac with only 30,000 miles and the $1k electric white paint option, I found my Civic which cost $20,000 less, was still worth a couple grand more than his caddy! 

Its worth mentioning that I have tried probably 10 sets of component speakers from Focal to ADS to Rainbow, touch screen dvd/h71 processors, and a lot of other stuff and this is what I've landed on... Other than the addition of a digital media player ( & maybe some Apillar tweets to eliminate a bit of rainbow effect, I doubt I will be changing anything soon! 

Step one was to gut the poor bugger and install the damping products. I used a total of three rolls of Raammat - a couple small packs of dynamat and several sheets of cascade in the butyl line, and used several yards of ensolite over the top... and then I used a couple cans of spray in the hard to reach spots of the rear side panels and topped it off with 3 0 6'x4' sheets of fiber based RV insualtion over top of the floor - firewall and in the rear side panels and a bit in the trunk. 










NOTE - THE MDF BAFFLE YOU SEE IN THIS PICTURE IS NOT PART OF THE NEW POD - SEE THE PICTURES BELOW FOR THE IMPROVED SYSTEM.










The stock speaker mounts had the drivers buried several inches behind what I can only describe as a muffle, although Honda called it a baffle. The result was that the sound was reflected back behind the door panels that made a mess generally of what I was trying to acomplish. My solution was to build a pair of pods which are made of MDF and are entirely coated with fiberglass epoxy and are held in place by 6 brass bolts with rubber washers. I also used some spray foam to add strength and fill in in spots and put a layer of thin rubber between the pod and the door to form a tight seal. Adding knife screw inserts and topped off with the remains of an older leather coat, this has made a terrific improvement in my bass and midbass response... and there is no more panel vibration at all.










For drivers, I replaced my Rainbow Platinum mid base drivers with a pair of Focal Utopia 7w2's and they were a big step up... BIG! (Boy was i surprised). For tweeters, I couldn't resist trying the Hiquphons that our local reviewer found so terrific, and I agree! They didn't work too well on my apillars but when I tried them in the kicks, watchout! Geat combination and I am finally very pleased with the sound i get playing almost any kind of music!










For the source unit, I switched to the Clarion DRZ 9255... not too proud to tel you that I bought the refurb unit for $567 and it works great! To play my ipod videos and soon to provide visual control of my digital media player, I added a no name video monitor from eBay for $150. Its motorized and tucks away - I stays clean since I don't have to touch buttons on it - it has a TV tuner built thats pretty much worthless - but, its picture is as good as my Alpine W200 and it tilts enough to avoid the sun much better! The digital media player (based on a 250gb laptop hard drive) is a bit bigger than the ipod, ... I'll still be using the ipod for audio books and maybe video as well and will be trying to come up with something tricky to mount both of these on that is still in an easy to reach without looking position. 



















Now to the trunk, where I went from a vertical installation which was just obtrusive and hokey, to a false floor style. Low level signals are sent via either a Symbilink unit or some handmade Canare quad star cables terminated with some nice locking 81% copper Viablue RCAs. For speaker wire I am just using the streetwire blue and silver twisted 12ga and 14ga. Its prewired now so that I can add a midrange or an additional tweeter by simply changing the connections at the barrier strip for the speakers and plugging in the two additional RCA cables from the DRZ. 



















The false floor is divided into four sections, three that are roughly the same sized at the front and one large display section at the rear. I picked up some junk caps for $20 each so I am trying those in one secion where all the high power cables are managed, the middle section is covered by the subwoofer and houses the relay box that runs the fan, lights and the amplifier remotes. The final smaller section contains the low level signal cables running toward the middle and the 6 speaker outputs connected to a barrier terminal for easy change running down the far side.




























Lastly, the main display section is ventilated via a standard 120mm computer fan - and both amps have their own fans as well. For the front stage, I am using a used McIntosh MC 440M amplifier. It is currently running in 4 channel mode providing 100 watts to each individual front stage driver - although with its headroom, it is rated to hit 144 before clipping. Anyhow, the darned thing makes my drivers sing! And, when i do play it loud, I never have terrible distortion of any kind, because the powerguard feature on the Mcamps prevents clipping - leaving only compression to trouble you at high volumes.

I also built a nice new double layer 3/4" mdf box for the ID MAX back here - and actually cut it to fit the angle of the rear seat so that I'd save as much space as possible. Now I can still use the flip downs if I want and have room to carry longer things again... and naturally, I can remove the sub and toss a blacket across the whole thing when I borrow my buddies chainsaw and lawn tools for the day or whatever.




























I haven't invested in any tricky lighting, but I am broke now and I don't spend much time looking in the trunk anyhow. When I do show someone, at least now I am not embarrased with the way things are set up... I tried to use a logical layout with a lot of attention to the signal wires and routing. The completed effect doesn't grab the criminal eye, allows me to use the majority of my trunk and isn't an eyesore anyhow. I kinda like it - but what do you think???? 

Any ideas for dressing it up a bit more or adding some interesting element? 
Thanks for your earlier advice... I took it to heart. The best part is that for now at least... I'm finally done and it sounds great! YES!

Less


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

So, you attached the speaker to the panel, or did you just make a cut in the panel so that door speakers don't have to hide behind them?

I've been having a horrible time with these panels. I've been trying to avoid cutting them, but it's not looking pretty.


I like the trunk. Any more pictures of the overall layout?


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Hmm - no replys but from another Civic owner? Is it that bad??

Ok, the speakers aren't mounted to the metal of the door at all... the plastic inner door panel is removed totally in the bottom forward facing corner. 

This picture will show you better what the pod does - creates a solid platform for the driver to angle it up and toward the passenger - replaces the plastic baffle area (which was cut out and tossed) with a solid mdf "pod" - certain areas of it are cut spedifically to hide behind what remains of the plastic door panel that now fits around and over the pod, and other areas are designed to angle the driver properly and serve as the new visible portion of the lower door corner replacing the original plastic with a very similar looking leather surface.








The Plastic inner door skin mounts over the thinner portion of this pod and is simply removed to expose the pod where it is at its thickest. This makes it blend in far more naturally... in a sense that you couldn't tell if I had cut the plastic or mouonted the driver to it, is really a pretty big compliment.

I have to confess though, to build this and fit it in place was a good 47 hours of work. I'd never have done it except I really thought it would make a huge difference in the sound and that I'd be able to make it somewhat pleasing to the eye.

The idea was to:

A. get rid of the noisey nasty baffle
B. provide a much more sturdy mount for the drivers to mount to
C. angle the midwoofers up and back so that they point approximately to a point on the opposite window 2" below my ear and 5" forward of my ear... they are close but not right on target. 

I totally understand your problem - I had it too. The pods dramatically improved the sound overall from the midbass drivers... both the lower and upper end of the spectrum are better with the lower end being tighter and fuller and the upper register being more clear.

Not sure if I really understood what you were getting at - so I hope this answered it =)

Less


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## TEGBOY (May 4, 2008)

Love the silver cable holders, where are they from??


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Ya - I liked those too. They were a recent addition replacing some that were more traditional. Picked them up from Frys Electronics and they came in a packet with roughly 8- single cable, 6 -3cable and 6 -6cable and some lame zip ties, but only $6.00.

They might have them online at www.frys.com 

Good luck finding them.
Jim


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm also a Civic owner so, fwiw  my $0.02:

1) sweet gear all around
2) sweet head unit/screen combo
3) door pods are pretty creative and cool


> I'm finally done


4) but the tweeters don't really look like it
5) false floor and amp wiring is sweet
6) but I'm not feeling the sub enclosure. Just seems like a waste of space. Seems to me like even a square pre-made box off to the side would give more usable space.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

capnxtreme said:


> I'm also a Civic owner so, fwiw  my $0.02:
> 
> 1) sweet gear all around
> 2) sweet head unit/screen combo
> ...


Ok ok - you got me on at least one here =P

First, thanks on the compliments... the McAmp was something I had just always wanted... bought it and still swear by them... its just a dream at 14 years old! 

Tinkered with a Alpine headunit/processor combo but ultimately I dropped that for the Clarion for imho a little better sq... picked up the eBay monitor for video and I tell you, its far better than the W200 - same quality of picture, but there is no reason to touch it - ever! It hides away nicely and adjusts in directions the alpine didn't so I don't get near the glare I once did... in short, I can see the screen any time of day and close it when not watching.

Speakers took the longest and I went through a lot of installed testing and selling and buying used, rinse and repeat including Rainbow plats and Focal K2P upgradeds. This combo is buy far the best! 

I'm seriously busted on the tweeters - I cut the kick panel out a bit, slapped a screen over the driver and put some industrial velcro on the back and they stay in place perfectly... but I am tired and broke and really wanted to say I was done lol... lo such luck though. UIltimately, I'll be glassing up some new kicks and I have the rings for them installed arleady, so it won't really be much work... time is tight though and so is cash, so it may be a while. 

Another thing I am definitly doing is building a mount for both my ipod and my digital media player in the console and over the main storage compartment. I'll be putting an extension LED off te PowerGuard LED on the amp in between the two so that whenever I am clipping, I will at least be able to tell. I also have three sets of VU meters that I am playing with - and I may run a line of 4 VU meters with a nice blue backlighted effect across the dash between the abovfe mentioned mount and below the A/C controls... I am just concerned about making it too blatant... since right now, other than the speaker pads sticking out, its really farily stealth looking if looking through the windws.

Lastly, I still need to install some apillar tweeters since I had a pair of Zapco competitions up there for a while and they added very nicely to the stage/image and really brought you into the music. 

Oh, the sub is sitting right under the sub hole in the rear deck of the honda, and it can easily be removed or moved to the side for more room if needed. It isn't my favorite part and I amy someday glass one into each corner of the trunk on angles to the middle hole again... that would look nice! 

So,NO! DAMMIG... I'm not done... quit rubbing it in tho... ok? Please???

Haha,

Thanks for the input. 

LESS


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

less said:


>


This is the only part of the install I dont understand. Why did you decide to terminate the speaker wires to that block, only to terminate them again 12" further at the amp? Were they pre existing runs that just werent long enough or something?

Other than that, it looks very good! I like the Zapco and McIntosh amps too, very niiiice.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Ahh, thats a simple one that you might not think of unless you had this specific arrangement and my particular personality!

First, if I want to remove the entire trunk mounted section, which is all one piece totally connected. I can just pop the power connections and the speaker wires from the term strips and presto... out it comes with a little less work due later when I put it back in.

Second, the McIntosh speaker wire connections are hard to get to - as well as partially wallowed out the screwdriver holes making it very difficult to t work with. Someone didn't really treat it with the respect that a nice amp deserves. The current set up allows me to make one good connection at those points, and any future changes can be made at a much easier to access bvarrier strip. Lastly, I doubt the barrier strip causes any noticable degradation to the sound. 

Oh, and I also have played with the addition of a midrange to my system at several times and have not eliminated it as a future option (something like a nice DLS dome or possible a quality Revelator 4" in a sealed kick). I already have low level signal wires assembled and attached to the headunit - and coiled near the McIntosh amp should I decide to do that. The speaker wires are run for the mids too - and they are wrapped under the rear seat awaiting possible future use. With this set up - I just pull them up a bit and hookem up... off I go. No messing with having to cover it all up with techflex and such - since little of it will show and it won't look bad.

Anyway, its fairly functional and I don't think it hurts anything, but I do understand the question if you don't have that background.

Thanks for the compliments... still welcome any ideas on how to make it look better. I've decided the next little project will be a mount for my Ipod and digital media player that looks nice and allows an easy reach adjustement. I'm thinking of coating it with black leather and including some sort of stealth coverings for the various cables that will have to connect to it so they won't be seen at all.

Less


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## txbonds (Mar 10, 2008)

Looks very nice so far. 

Quick question. Is the tweeter simply laying on the kick/floor, or is it actually mounted into it, and how are you protecting it from feet?


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## suka4thong (May 14, 2008)

wow! details~


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## Toxis (Feb 4, 2008)

on the speaker wire block, 4 speaker wire in but 6 out? What's going on there?


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## Nitr0racing21 (May 25, 2008)

very nice work


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## semipimpedauto (May 29, 2008)

also confused w/ speaker wire terminal


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## Fran82 (Jul 30, 2007)

Toxis said:


> on the speaker wire block, 4 speaker wire in but 6 out? What's going on there?


Probably bridged


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

Or it's the extra midbass wiring he was talking about.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Hello again -

Wow - some comments! Thanks for taking the time to write... I really love the feedback.

Now, the wiring confusion is actually already covered since you mentioned bridging and the extra mids. Currently, I am running a two way + sub setup. As such, I bridged the 6 channel McIntosh into a channel w/ each running 100wrms into 4 ohms. Note though that my Hiquphon tweeters are actually 8 ohm drivers... Although the McIntosh has a regulated power supply that has the same output regardless of the load below 4ohms, I suspect it only puts out 50wrms into an 8 ohm load. Regardless though, 50 McWatts into a tweeter is plenty of power. 

The other two outputs are there and simply waiting for me to get the money and make up my mind if I am going to go to a three way front stage (+sub) or add a pair of tweeters on the pillars to gain a better stage/image combination. Right now, I am heavily leaning toward the tweeter option because I had a pair of Zapco tweeters hooked up to this system for a while on the pillars and they really sounded very nice making the whole system just a hair more complete. Anyhow, once that decision is made, I simply flip the amp switch back to 6 channel, connect the wires that are already buried under the carpet to the barrier strip, and make connections up front... and presto!

As to the tweeters... yes - I am busted! I so much wanted to be able to feel like I was done for a while, that I just sort of called them done... when they aren't! Right now, the are positioned in a cut out portion of the plastic stock kick panel (which I covered with felt after I cut a different hole in them that didn't work out). They are held in place by industrial velcro and don't move, plus they are covered by a layer of screening to protect them from anything large.

I went ahead and bought some of the stuff to get working on official kick panel installations for them yesterday, but I am job shopping and planning to move too, so there is only so much time.... The whole tweeter installation thing has troubled me from word go and I've held off on doing anything permanent since so far I have probably tried 10 pairs of tweeters haha. I can't see changing the Hiquphons out unless I go crazy and try some scanspeaks or something... and from what I hear, the Hiquphons are not dramativally different from those anyhow. Now that I am pretty sure I;ve found keepers and that I am actually going to use a kick panel installation (something I NEVER thought I would do - but it sounds good so...), I may as well finish these ones up. After all - I'll still be picking up some more work for the apillars before too long anyhow hahaha.

I also have decided to go ahead and buy some String Light - which is a blue thin wire like aparatus that lights along its entire edge and is 10' long. I'll wrap that around the windows in the trunk for a little extra glow. Also, I finally decided to go ahead and run a jumper from my Power Guard LED on the McIntosh into a spot on my dash so I can cut back when I clip it. No point in having all those meters and lights if you can't even see them is there?

Honestly, I almost installed a pair of the BIG blue meters up front and powered them from the amp, but they are sooooo big and I really don't want my car to look hokey. I've got another project on the books like that too - using four smaller circular VU meters in a smaller case that lights up beautifully - and I'm trying to find a way to make it look less brash... maybe put a flip top panel over it and only use it at times...

Anyhow, thanks again for the comments and input. Yes - the tweeters will be done better. If someone has example shots of a pair of tweeters installed in the kicks that looks very good - please send me a copy of the picture so I can try and steal it. It'll be my first fiberglass job, so that should be fun!!!!! Gooo BONDO!

Less


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## filtor1 (Apr 24, 2008)

Very nice! I wish I had your attention to detail!


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

OK, well I had to update this a bit to add the latest and maybe the literal greatest addition to my system. Maybe for some who are stuck in the old days, this won't seem like a big deal, but for me its better than sliced bread! 

Why? (here is a link for ya: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39938

And, here is a picture: 









1. Sounds as good or better than CD's - no skips, excellent image and stage reproduction, digital = no noise other than what is in the original.
2. Extreme convenience! Easy access to roughly 1/4th of my entire music collection (which means everything that i still want to listen to regularly). Playlists - as many as you want for whatever mood you are in, random - this means I'll get to hear all those songs that I still like but don't think to play if I have to dig through my pile of cd's just for the one track, easily controlled, small and can be completely out of sight.
3. Lets me hear music that I never heard when I had to tote around 200+ cds - which is a big bonus to me, since there are so many songs that I like but might be buried on a disc with no other songs worth playing... and I tend to get into ruts of listening to something new too much ... so this lets old music feel like new music again.
4. Plays many movie formats and stores a ton of pictures too if you want that sort of thing.

Its a digital media player that connects optically into the digital input on the back of my DRZ9255... pretty cool. There is more info in the review section if you are interested... and there is another post in the high tech column that probably has even more details. Also, while it will play 5.1 it also plays stereo signals out the digital output too... I've never tried playing a 5.1 recorded movie file as I still use my ipods for video - they work very well for that and I want all the space have for audio!

Anyhow, so far this thing sounds exceptional - even better than CDs imho, and it is a fine capstone to my system really bringing out the best of it while making my favorite music much more available. Time will tell about durability and things like that...

Less


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

you should use some hex screws for the floor to keep it on "lockdown". that Mac amp is precious!


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

Mr. less, how about an update?

I know you've tried drivers you haven't mentioned here. 

The more I look at this install the more I appreciate it as the ultimate utilitarian actual music lover's system. Hope you take that in the right way. And that you'll post some more reviews of high quality drivers you've tried.


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## WolfSong (Aug 16, 2008)

I don't know how I missed this one when I was looking for Civic Coupe installs... very nice setup indeed.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

I'll either do an update or a re-do here soon. I have one of my two new fiberglass kicks complete and need to finish the other one before I let anyone see how things turned out. I must say though, the addition of Scan 12m mids and the change to the first models of the Illuminator series of tweeters from scan speak - Air Circs model D3004/6600, has finally taken me to the very place I have always wanted my system to be. The thing sounded so incredible during testing... and although the sound changed with isntallation in the finished kicks... I'm sure I will be able to tweak things back into that incredible sound that had me in sonic bliss and literally in love with the sound of my system for really the first time.

I am also getting some new Peerless and Morel 8=9" woofers and may try them them out - which will involve rebuilding the door pods... something I am not at all excited about. Honestly, I really don't know that I should expect a lot more from the new woofers since the Focal 7w2s I am using really sound great already... I just can't sit still I guess.

Of course, I have also added an extra Stinger battery and trashed the caps, and I have changed the wiring to the speakers as well and will soon eliminate the streetwires blue/silver in favor of some very nice Monster cable FLAT wire I'd purchased years ago for my home theatre system.

Its tough to pick a time to revamp this though - as I really don't stop working on it for long. Any thoughts on this??? I am also thinking of refinishing the trunk install since the carpet just ge ts fuzzy and collects crap left and right... its impossible to keep clean!

I'm thinking of using a combination of black based marble tile in the center out to the window edges roughly then do the outer edges in Arctic Black vinyl which I am also using on the kick panels. The only trouble is buying a small quantity of the marble - everyone wants you to buy a case at a time and its expensive! Anyhow, I can get the tiles up to 18 by 18 and have them cut to the exact dimensions I am looking for... and each piece would be narrow enough so that I would not need to hook two pieces together in any location so no seems.

Ok - well thanks for the compliments and mark this page and I will update it soon enough. Otherwise, I'll send you a pm if I just put together a new one.

Less


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Holy crap  - my WHOLE SYSTEM has changed lol!!!  Actually, I can honestly say that I am truly happy with every aspect of how my system sounds for the very first time... but good God it took a lot of work! Anyhow, heres an update with some pics and a diagram... it was really time for an update! 

Latest Additions (w/some pics):
- (Very cool!) *Sarotech media player* with 250gb hard drive & optical out. I don't have shots of the installation, but its in my console with a remote control extension stashed in a nook in my dash for super easy control:










*- Fiberglass Kick panels with Scanspeak 12m midranges and Scan Air Circ Tweeters* - wonderful drivers!:


*- Totally rebuilt door pods with Morel MW265(4) 9" midwoofers*: (no pic yet - will post soon)

*- JBL GTi 12" sub *- 60th anniversary: (looks like all the other GTi's in a carpeted box - damn thing was too deep for me to glass in the corner of my trunk until I redesign the entire trunk... so not till late this summer!

*- Diehard Platinum *(4 year no question replacement rocks) & Stinger battery in trunk: (will shoot pics when system complete) 

Here is the updated diagram:











Hopefully by the end of the summer, the following things will be changed:

1. Custom Apillar pods built for mids/tweets

2. Add BIT ONE - run media player direct to digital ins - delete DRZs (still love em though!) 

3. Add attractive versatile single din h/u for accessories only 

4. REbuild trunk installation so I can 

5. Build glass enclosure for sub in trunk corner and then

6. finally stop this mad process and literally concentrate on enjoying it!


STILL HERE? HEY - WAKE UP - LOL! Thanks for taking a peak. I'd love your input on how to make it even better!

Jim...aka Less


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## Yoursogansta (Apr 6, 2009)

Are you making sealed enclosures for your morel woofers? When voice coil caps have tiny air-vents (pinholes) you will need all 300+W RMS to get a punchy midbass. I'd hook up your zapco to them


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

i really like the way you mounted your drivers to the door. i am going to use a variation of your technique to mount xls 8's in my doors. i agree that the oem grill/door card really kills the performance of any driver mounted behind it , confirmed by listening w/o the card installed.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

> i really like the way you mounted your drivers to the door. i am going to use a variation of your technique to mount xls 8's in my doors. i agree that the oem grill/door card really kills the performance of any driver mounted behind it , confirmed by listening w/o the card installed.


Thanks! There is an uquestionable improvement going this way. On the other hand, its very difficult to make this set up come out looking good. Keep in mind that the baffle that is attached to the door has to be made at a fairly steep angle because the bottom front corner of the door is recessed which would make a flat baffle end up toeing in severly! 

6 brass bolts/nuts - layers of deadener - expanding spray foam - followed by layers of fiberglass resin will help seal things up well. I have absolutely no vibration at all and no funky noises at higher volumes... and honestly, that was something I was pretty worried about.

Good luck if you go that route! If I were to do it again, I might stick to a 7" driver like the 7W2s I owned - put them on a baffle a couple inches tall, then cut out the stock plastic "baffle" (more like muffle), and replace it by carefully gluing a standard 6.5-7" speaker grill over the plastic door panel in the grooves that allow almost a perfect fit! Its much less work - it probably looks better - and it allows you to sell the car down the road if you want and no one knows the difference. If I ever do sell mine (doubt I will), I'llprobably have to spend $500 replacing the stock doo



> i really like the way you mounted your drivers to the door. i am going to use a variation of your technique to mount xls 8's in my doors. i agree that the oem grill/door card really kills the performance of any driver mounted behind it , confirmed by listening w/o the card installed.


As for the Morels and "punch" 

I might have mislead a little there. The drivers play plenty loud and are incredibly musical sounding - moreso than any driver I've had there. Because the MW265(4) has a very high QTS, it provides a strong suspension that keeps the cone in shape without need for a tightly sealed enclosure. This makes it great for a door driver & I have considered actually opening it up a bit or adding an AP vent as a test. I think the driver doesn't sound "punchy" because it sounds musical" On reflection and trying to better describe this, I've listened to many top drivers in this same door install: Rainbow Plats & Kicks, Focal K2P and Utopia, ADS & more. The drivers that sounded "punchy" to me had a certain appeal - but when I was listening to determine what instrument was making the punchy sound, it wasn't always clear. Its like the punch was an effect of the lack of a driver's ability to translate the incoming signal & reproduce an instrument, but the energy was there and it has to do something with it.. so it makes a generic thump. In truth, in some music this is actually appealing (at least to me) provided it isn't distorted or fuzzy and it helps provide a strong beat which most of us really like in music. 

As for swapping to the Zapco, well lets just say the McIntosh amps are a bit underrated and the true output difference between the Zapco is not a great deal. I have played with the idea of adding an additional amp to drive the morels honestly, but only to allow additional overall volume. While the Zapco is a very fine amp that runs cool and trouble free, I'd prefer to go with all one brand - McIntosh. If I could pick up a Mc 150x2 then I'd probably sell my six channel and buy a 100x4 or a 50x4 and add a Mc Sub amp. I've been a McIntosh fan for ages and owning one only hieghtened my love of them. 

It took a long time and a lot of real trial and error for me to put together a system that sounds good (to me). I think its a balancing act - choosing equipment based on each items individual audio characteristics as well as features. Many folks focus on the features and assume all parts sound the same - and to a degree they do... but the difference between most of us here who spend our lives in pursuit of sonic perfection, its the small differences that make the system. Each part adds its signature and the carefull balancing of traits is what results in a system that is truly magnificent - or truly poor. We've all heard those mega-buck systems that never seem to sound good! 

Jim aka Less


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

exactly what i was thinking! i have 6.5'' grills that have the exact diameter of the v-groove that circles the oem[muffle]. i will ,no doubt ,need to remove the door pockets and make a simple patch to cover the opening.[as seen in maxosor's build thread].

i dont think i need to worry about re-sale, as my son will be old enough to drive it when i decide to change it, 3-4 yrs from now. a budding autiophile.
martin


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Removing the door pocket isn't too bad - getting it back in however is a completely different matter. I'd be 100% sure you really need to take it out before doing so... I've tried a lot of different glues to get mine back in and looking good... its done, but it isn't anything I am proud of. If you find a good way to reinstall the things - please let me know!

Less


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

less said:


> Removing the door pocket isn't too bad - getting it back in however is a completely different matter. I'd be 100% sure you really need to take it out before doing so... I've tried a lot of different glues to get mine back in and looking good... its done, but it isn't anything I am proud of. If you find a good way to reinstall the things - please let me know!
> 
> Less


honda decided to use polypropylene or [old-age strikes again!!]polyethelene[both are chemically related anyhow] for the trim .... no adhesives can really stick to it. the only way to re-attach the pockets is by fusing the tabs back together [melting]. there is equipement available for the diyer,but it's expensive. google>"plastic welding" . a weller soldering gun with the proper tip can do the job ...since you won't be able to see the "mess" behind the door card.


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## zatchmo (Mar 9, 2008)

The install looks great! I have an 06 si that I'm going to start on at some point. I don't want to give up my dead pedal so I'm stuck using a 2 way setup. Did you try the tweets up on the dash/pillars at any point? How did it sound? I was thinking about going with the Dyn 242 component set.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Hola and thanks.

I ran a Rainbow Profi pair for about a year with the tweeters on the pillars and the kick woofers in the door. I hae to tell you that it did sound pretty good but there was a certain brightness that I could never get rid of - so it had its trade offs. The Rainbow kick bass driver though was really a great midbass driver and did very well on strictly midrange as well. It had a very relaxed warm sound yet was still capable of great dynamics. Hard to describe but definately a driver I would consider using again.

Good luck making a decision there. PErsonally I've never been a Dyn fan - but that stems from using a set of da28f tweeters to replace a pair of ADS tweeters and being very disappointed.

Less


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

i am dying to see the morels installed in your pods. also any more pics of the kicks?


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Hey Stinky,

I finally got a picture moved from my cell phone to my computer so, here you go... one 8.75" 4 ohm version of a Morel MW265 mounted in a custom made door pod for an 06 Civic:










It actually turned out quite nice, but I did it in the winter and never got the chance to clean up around the bottom corner of the door where the pod meets it. No one can really see there anyhow, but I'd still like to neaten it up. (edit) Oh, and I'm retriming the door panel right now too - she's out in the garage getting neatened up from the somewhat hasty cold weather cut job =) Thank God its spring finally, eh?

I've got about 50 pics I need to get emailed to my pc now, so more will be posted before too long. Thanks for your interest!

Jim/Less

Oh, on another note, any other civic owners bothered by the fact that honda didn't take the time to design a door sill panel in the new Civics? Having just paint there where you rub your feet and more, ends up resulting in a lot of scratches and a nasty look that bothers me to no end! I'm thinking of sanding the lower section of where the door meets the body down - priming carefully and adding a nice coat of black rubberized bed liner there in hopes that it will absorb the things that currently scratch the paint!

Any thoughts?
Less


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

NVM - I'd already posted these. Couple new pics coming soon though. Need to get the new sub box up but its just a standard box with a GTi 12. This summer I hope to re-do the trunk installation to make room for a custom glass box for the sub - its soooo deep! I've some shots from the recent addition of a trunk pack of Damplifier Pro too - highly recommended and probably the best value deadener I've had the pleasure of using - and I've used Dynamat, RAAMMat and Cascade in the Civic already...

I also need to post up some shots of the sarotech mounting system and the fan I've recently added, along with the power guard light extension in the console and the lighted power switch in the console. Civic consoles lend themselves to wiring pass throughs since there is a good bit of space, and not a lot of noise carrying lines. Sadly though, no matter WHAT I do, I can't get the noise out of my ipod cable *sigh* It runs right beside my analog wiring from the Sarotech (which carries no noise at all!) and generates noise seemingly all of its own, that is worse when the ipod is unplugged than when its not. ITs grounded to a wire that runs right to the battery and its power comes from the battery too - and I've even added a ground loop isolator to it to no avail. The Sarotech unit runs from the same ground and power sources as well - so its simply in the ipod cables... odd!

Less
Less


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

less said:


> Hey Stinky,
> 
> I finally got a picture moved from my cell phone to my computer so, here you go... one 8.75" 4 ohm version of a Morel MW265 mounted in a custom made door pod for an 06 Civic:
> 
> ...


 i totally agree on the door sill [lack there of]. an other suggestion> using "invisible bra" heavy clear vinyl material to protect the paint .


i was also successful integrating my 8 15/16'' dia woofers to my doors w/o modifying the door pocket . i just cut out the inefficient grill out and enlarged it to accomodate the much larger woofer. checkout my last page.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/54564-06-civic-coupe-re-build.html


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Great work if you got a 9" in there without moding the the door liner much! I'm sure it probably looks better than what I came up with, but mine had already been modified with a different pod that I used for a set of Focal 7W2s (great drivers - more punch than the morel - but not quite as natural sounding in the lower ranges). I just recut the inner door panel this weekend and am going to use a rubber channel of the ridge that will make the whole unit blend in a little better. 

Personally, I wanted a very strong mount for the driver, since a lot of the problems that doors represent come from the relatively flexible panel that they are mounted in creating resonances that turn the whole inner door into a driver of sorts. 5" of MDF on one side and 2.5 on the other - bolted and resined to the door at both its more solid outer edges and flowing into the more flexible center help assure that the driver is the only source of sound. 

Random picture of my new JNL GTi 12" Anniversary edition sub - smokes the old ID Max especially in the lowest notes:









I'm actually surprised that Morel doesn't market the MW265 (4 ohm version) as a door driver! It has a QTS of 5 or so, so its very controlled by its own suspension and motor, making it a great candidate for an IB mounting. If fact the driver was referred to me by a currently winning competitor type and he said he heard it in a friends car and thought it sounded better than his competition car in that part of the spectrum. My results are pleasing too - but it does take a while to break in.

Headed to your page to take a look, but just realized I am behind and need to roll... might not be able to comment today. Thanks for your post buddy - and you might want to check out my post about wheels in the main forum, since Civics come with some of the worst rated wheels available!

Less ~ Jim


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

*On the loose again - The Obsession monster!*

Well I figured it was time to post some shots of some new things I'm toying with. Also, this time I'm actually including some shots of actual work in progress, since I've pretty much stuck with finished item shots so far - and I always like seeing how others do things... 

To start, here are a couple shots of the slide in mount that I've made for my Sarotech media player - the one that runs off a 500gb hard drive and outputs a pure digital signal to my DRZ9255's input and also plays high def movies and a few other nice little tricks. I built this for two reasons: 

1. the unit was running hot when I played videos and I wanted to add a fan and some additional vent holes. 
2. it was annoying pulling out several wires everytime I took the thing in the house! (plus you know its hard on the optical cable to get moved around all the time)

As usual, it was far more involved than I'd envisioned, but mostly due to 2 fans that I was trying to use that were old and waaaaay too noisey. These shots do not show the new fan I got from New Egg - but I can tell you, buy a Scythe fan model for $6 - its just plain silent and yet pumps enough air to do the job well - I'd go with an 80mm:

Side View:









Top down view - note JB Weld holds the plugs together and while you see gaps from the top - there is a lot of it holding them. I just ran out so I couldn't finish it up and make it look pretty =)









Whats next? Well, despite how great my kick panels sound, ever since I got the scan 12m's I've wanted to hear how good they'd sound if I put them up on the pillars with my scan air circ tweeters. I've enjoyed having tweeters on the pillar before, but without having the mids up there - the imaging suffered and made for an broken sound field... playing from 315hz on up from the pillars should do the trick!

With that in mind, and after a lot of research into how others have done this, I decided to build these in much the same way I built my kicks. I've cut shaped baffles for the mids which will sit down low and circular baffles for the tweeters above. The circular baffles instead of flat edged triangle pieces that would match the mid baffle, will allow me to stretch my fleece up and away to impact the midrange less. the baffles are attached to a solid wood back board for stability and when its complete, the entire piece including the area behind the tweeter will be coupled to form one decent sized enclosure. I'll try the unit sealed at first - and if needed, I may find a way to aperiodically vent it into a seperate sealed space that I can build where the stock tweeters were originall installed.

As you can see, I like using tnuts instead of threaded inserts... below are shots of the mostly complete baffles where I got my first experience with Gorilla Glue! Little did I know that it grew so darned much lol - but at least I don't have to worry about the Tbolts coming loose - grr, I hate that!



















For initial setting to get the imaging just right, I am using bands of perforated aluminum screwed to the baffles that will allow me to change the baffle angles easily. I can add length or bend the metal straps to get perfectly aligned - then once its adjust so the sound is best from driver and passenger seats - I'll move on to glassing the package together. The backs of the mid baffle are routed to allow minimal compression.

Here is the base for the baffles - and I'll probably shape the tops to slowly integrate into the stock apillar covers and then wrap the whole thing in some nice vinyl that matches quite well:










Oddly, I am prepared to scrap the whole thing if it doesn't sound better than the kicks I'm already using... just can't rest easy knowing that there may be a way to improve the system without really dropping more money - so I've let the obsession monster loose again!

If anyone is interested - I'll keep you up to date. Don't expect this to be done soon though as I just don't want to rush and over do it, taking the fun out! 

Thanks to all you veterans out there!

Less - aka - Jim


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

:snacks:


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

A couple more shots for you "visual" people. Now that the t-bolts are in and everything is aligned well enough, I'll be installing the drivers this afternoon and working on the perfect center image from both seats. 



















Once that is set, its just a matter of wrapping, glassing, reinforcing, damping, merging with the stock mounts, vinyling and somewhere before things get too far - I NEED to design grills since that is the only thing I've never completed on my kicks. Not good and don't want to do that again!

Anyone have suggestions? This is only my second glass project and I've read up a lot before starting... but I know some of you are friggin pro's at this stuff!

Thanks in advance,
Less


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

i am still not seeing the bigger picture.....must be the jet-lag


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

Great install. One question though. In the picture of your door panel and Morel speaker is that a squirrel in the pocket?


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

very nice worklog. 

oh and thanks for those suggestions the other day. i have been doing a lot of research on that lately and have been enjoying what i have been finding.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Notloudenuf said:


> Great install. One question though. In the picture of your door panel and Morel speaker is that a squirrel in the pocket?


Don't ask - don't tell!  

Brian, you are surely welcome... opinions are always free and worth everything you pay for it! I wish that it didn't have to be so [email protected]^% work to get a system sounding great & you could just buy the perfect products the first go round and then have the perfect installation right from the start... but life just isn't like that lol! Actually that is the fun of it though.

Stink, the items in the pictures will ulitimately replace my plastic Apillars. I'll screw what you see there to the pillar area, mount test drivers to get the angles right and once I get the best possible stage/image, I'll wrap the entire piece in fleece and glue it to the back to form an enclosure behind eaxh driver - but the tweeter doesn't require space, so it will be a single enclosure space by connecting the air space of the two.

I'd planned on prewrapping these to get a better idea of the enclosure volume and how the finished product will look, so when I do this, I'll post some shots. Not sure I can word it any better since its 0 too early in the am still!

Less


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

less , i see you put both your drz's up for sale....what are you planning to replace it with?


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Well I am in a quandry at the moment bud. The system sounds so good right now, I can hardly believe I had something to do with it! Yet, there is a neat new toy on the market that probably sounds as good and possibly better, and it is a tinkerers dream. I'm strongly considering a bit one!

I'll be dropping it in the trunk and feeding it optical from the media player - then picking up something like a 880prs or another decent midrange head unit to run the blue tooth and listen to the ipod/radio when the mood strikes. I'm on a pretty good deal for the B1 - but still waiting to be sure that I'll be able to get it repaired if needed, under warranty. Its never been installed, but I'm not the original buyer so.... who knows. Since its a first gen version, it has better chances of potential issue and it doesn't make sense to buy one and then have to pay the amount I got off the retail price in order to get it to work properly lol. 

I'm excited to see where this will go though. I plan to keep the Clarion until I get the B! going... then as long as it works out good, sell the Clarion and if the B1 doesn't work out... sell it instead. 

I'm also midway through two completely new driver enclosures... since I can't figure out which I really want until I hear them both haha! I'm rebuilding my kicks so I can fix a little aiming issue I had that was driving me nuts... and also working on some fiberglass Apillars to hear what the system sounds like with a slightly higher sound stage. 

I'll try and keep you posted as things come up - but thanks for stopping by!

Jimbo...


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## rkb993 (Apr 10, 2009)

Love that amp!
Looks like a lot of thought is going into this project. Nice work.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Argh! I went back to the drawing board here so expect a lot of new shots soon! Why? Well, I just couldn't resist the BitOne.one temptation. Having had a H701 and moving to the less versatile (but still major improvement) Clarion DRZ, I wanted more flexibility... better sq if it was possible and a couple of nice features like: Dynamic EQ (nice!), the Blue tooth integration, eq and phase by outputs... you get the idea.

After worrying myself to death over the whole B1 issue, I installed it and shortly discovered it is a real gem. Great! Oooops, now I have to sell my DRZ to afford it - so out goes all the custom wiring, custom optical, console wiring for my PowerGuard LED, etc. I forgot just how much I'd put into that effort... and now I'm at it again.

Here is what is coming: 

- 2 new custom mounts for dual Sarotech media players and a cooling system in the console - both will have seperate digital, analog and video outs - both turned on with a touch of the Bit Ones digital remote control

- Completely new trunk installation - figured since I had to integrate the B1 anyhow, it was a good time to revamp the entire thing to spice it up and take care of an issue or two. I'll gain some trunk space back, be able to finally build the custom glass sub box for the GTI (which is too damned deep!) and I think I'm going to end up with better looks to boot.

- custom control panel (for lack of a better name) build off the e-brake, this will house the: Audison DRC, remote controls for both media players (they work on same frequencies - so I'll have to figure something out) and my iPod.​
 Lastly, I'm still trying to decide how to finish things off. Limited cash means I just can't have it all! Options: 1. get decent used laptop and replace the current monitor with a double din VGA monitor - 2. buy a decent head unit (Pio 880, Alp 96/97, Used Mc 401) and borrow laptop when I need to retune - 3. go to stock h/u (or maybe a Mc double din) and replace current monitor with visor mounted - or free standing monitor (which I could design a fiberglass cubby for or mount on a hinge so that it would cover my console pocket and swivel up when I needed something inside it.

At the moment - leaning toward the laptop option - it offers wifi, navi (down the road), net radio and if I REALLY had to listen to someone elses CD, I could always either play it through the laptop into an aux on teh b1 or rip it and toss it on the media player.

Blah blah... back to work!!! 

Jim


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Finally time for an update  It feels good to have something to report - since some of these projects have been a lot of work!

Here is what's new Pictures below:

1. Custom glass/mdf enclosure for the sub.
2. Amp cover w/windows and lights although you can't see them in the pics. (Note: although this looks ok, I have plans to make a sleek fiberglass "hood" in place of this in the coming year - just because I want to see how it looks)
3. 1ga wiring installed from front to rear - finally!
4. Pioneer 880prs head unit installed - no pics yet... matches pretty well with the monitor, but I am thinking of getting a different monitor soon taht will tie the two together very well. It sounds great with the B1 - but still using the media player for 99% of all material - music and video.
5. Laptop - Behringer Mic and Mic Mate purchased - in the process of learning the software so I can actually master this somewhere fairly soon! And, I can finally adjust my Bit One without dragging the desktop to the garage!
7. New wiring from new relay board throughout the car... the Bit One's DRC now turns on the whole shabang... and everything has its own fused line running through the car. Pretty extensive job - no pics per se, since its not really glamorous! 

Hows that? Whew! (wipes brow!)

Heres some shots of the overall look. Note that my drill broke and the sub box grill is just sitting there for now.




























More to come...


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## savagedriver (Mar 4, 2009)

Awesome build man!

Questions/Thoughts on the Sarotech setup:

1. Adapters...
- Digital coax to optical - p/n and availability? I see the digital coax 8mm to RCA, but not the optical.
- AC/DC power adapter - Web page shows non-US connection. Did yours come with a US style plug?
- For in-car power you are running their cigarrette lighter adapter to 12volt DC?
- For remote, your run their I/R Blaster to a semi-hidden location?

2. Interface...
- For the interface, I'm assuming you are running composite vid out of the unit to the composite in on the HU for on screen control, correct?

3. Docking...
- Love the dock! What are your thoughts on using an aluminum single 3.5 PC HDD hot dock? The specs on the Sarotech vs. an HDD look about right. The one pictured below has a fan in the back. I would think that you'd just need to replace the IDE or SATA connectors with the Sarotech jacks.


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