# H-Audio Enigma Tweeter and Trinity Mid Testing



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

*Thanks, Mike, for letting me borrow these from you for the testing*

*Manufacturer Specs:*
Enigma Tweeter
Trinity Midrange

*Info:*
I'm borrowing these drivers to do some various testing. Many, many things I want to try out in my car and after hearing these in Ryan's car I figure that these are the drivers that I want to test in my car given size, tonality, and the owner being such a kickass dude. :thumbsup:


First off, the obligatory product picture:











*Woofer Tester T/S Parameters and Impedance Curves:*

Enigma Tweeter:










If you compare my results to the mfg specs you can see that, for the tweeter, the results for fs are nearly identical. Mfg spec is 1.3khz. My results are 1.35khz. 


Trinity Midrange:









The trinity midrange results do differ, however. The mfg fs is 95hz. My results are 113hz for fs. 
The impedance plot from the spec is centered at about 80hz, with a rise of ~14 ohms. My results show the peak at fs (~115) and a rise of 13 ohm.
Mfg Qts = 0.472. My results show Qts = 0.60. 
For other results, you can do the comparisons yourself if you wish.​


*Upcoming Tests:*
The tests that will be done over the next couple weeks will vary from listening experiments in various positions in the car. I'll post pictures and short reviews from each test. Positions will be kicks, pillars, stock tweeter location, as center channel and also rear fill (if I can figure out the processing issue). 

In particular, I'll be running plots and t/s again via WT3 after I feel these have had adequate time to break in. We'll compare the results to the ones you see above and see if the break in period effects the results I've gotten already. 


Stay tuned...


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## sam3535 (Jan 21, 2007)

I noticed a definite difference in both the Enigma and Trinity after a "break in" period (around 35 hours on both sets) and am curious to see what the numbers show.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

The trinitys are on the bench right now getting pink noise treatment.
I'm going to have to pick up a cap from RS tomorrow before I can put power to the tweeters. 
Plan on leaving them on the bench for a couple days and then taking the measurements again.
However, I won't be doing any listening to them until after that point so won't be giving my hearing impressions before and after.

Edit: Made a band limited pink noise track from 3khz+. So, now both drivers are playing 3khz+ off my garage receiver. Low volume. I'll let that run throughout the next couple days and then re-test them.


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## sam3535 (Jan 21, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> I won't be doing any listening to them until after that point so won't be giving my hearing impressions before and after.




I put ten hours of pink noise on each set before install, then popped them in and started to notice some changes in five hours or so after being installed. I had my wife drive my vehicle for a week or so the last time I was out of the country (risky!) then listened to them again. Had to redo my initial xover points but I think they are done after 40 hours or so. There was a small bit of "hollowness" around 400 hz but that cleared up nicely with time, much as Mark has promised.

Please resume, sir.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

sam3535 said:


>


The reason why is time. I don't want to have to spend days trying multiple locations two or even three times because of break in. 
I've personally never experienced 'break in' and am not saying I believe in it, but it is Mark's suggestions to let these do their thing. I honestly just don't have the time to spend doing before and after testing to see if I hear break in. Besides, I'd rather let the numbers speak for themselves... or not. 

So, they're on the bench getting pink noise now and will for a few days at least. I'll start trying locations this weekend. In between now and then, they'll be breaking in off and on.


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## lycan (Dec 20, 2009)

Speakers definitely DO change after they break-in. Electronics ... not so much. Why speakers, and _not_ electronics? Speakers are mechanical, that's why 

What speaker parameter CHANGES after it's been played? Simple : suspension compliance, Cms. We've all experienced something similar with everyday items. Howabout a stiff leather belt, that becomes "more compliant" after usage? Here's a speaker parameter that does NOT change after playing for a while : moving mass, Mms. Hopefully, that needs no explanation ...

Let's look at Fs, resonant frequency. It's inversely proportional to the square-root of the Mms*Cms product. So as the speaker breaks-in, the compliance _increases_, which will _reduce_ the Fs.

No mystery, no voodoo, no need to invoke a "belief system" one way or the other ... just simple mechanical relationships 

By the way, i focused on compliance and moving mass because these are the two primary energy storage elements in a moving coil loudspeaker. Everything tends to "follow" from these two fundamental parameters (plus loss terms, to describe Q).


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Erin, I don't think the 3k pink noise will really help the Trinity break in much since it wont really be moving much at all. If you really want to break it in I'd go with the normal pink noise track for that set of drivers. 

I'm very excited to hear what you think of these in the car. I'm enjoying my new Ebony midbass drivers and I'm looking forward to hearing the Trinitys!


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

I should put my broken in set on the woofer tester to see what they measure to compare. Give me a day or so.....


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

lycan said:


> Speakers definitely DO change after they break-in. Electronics ... not so much. Why speakers, and _not_ electronics? Speakers are mechanical, that's why
> 
> What speaker parameter CHANGES after it's been played? Simple : suspension compliance, Cms. We've all experienced something similar with everyday items. Howabout a stiff leather belt, that becomes "more compliant" after usage? Here's a speaker parameter that does NOT change after playing for a while : moving mass, Mms. Hopefully, that needs no explanation ...
> 
> ...


After posting last night I got curious just what t/s parameters correlate to suspension, as I suspect that would be the most likely candidate. So, I found the equation you mentioned. That let me know to expect the fs to change. Pretty sweet stuff.
I’m really curious to see just how much the fs will shift. I don’t expect the tweeter to change much, but do expect the trinity to.



ItalynStylion said:


> Erin, I don't think the 3k pink noise will really help the Trinity break in much since it wont really be moving much at all. If you really want to break it in I'd go with the normal pink noise track for that set of drivers.
> 
> I'm very excited to hear what you think of these in the car. I'm enjoying my new Ebony midbass drivers and I'm looking forward to hearing the Trinitys!


Yep. 
The next track is full bandwidth pink noise. The trinity is getting blasted as we speak. Both drivers were left to play overnight with the 3k+ pink noise. I’ll play the pair again tonight with the 3k+ before I go to bed and let it break in overnight as well so the tweeter can get the benefit.

Should be able to post the results on Thursday night. That should be nearly 48 hours break in time total for the trinity and about half that for the enigma.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> After posting last night I got curious just what t/s parameters correlate to suspension, as I suspect that would be the most likely candidate. So, I found the equation you mentioned. That let me know to expect the fs to change. Pretty sweet stuff.
> I’m really curious to see just how much the fs will shift. I don’t expect the tweeter to change much, but do expect the trinity to.
> 
> 
> ...


You should notice a difference in the Trintiy. Sorry I meant to tell you to run fullrange pink noise on the Trinity to brake them in, 3khz as said above really does nothing for them, remember we could hard so them moving on the Zuki at 300hz @ 12dbs in Ryans WRX.

I'm truly looking forward to seeing your results on the after brake in test. But, no this even after about 48 hours, when you start playing them with really music over time they get even better. Total brake in time is about 85-100 hours for. Ryan have you experience them getting better over time? Also how is the WRX coming. I will be back in Georgia around the 11th and flying back out on the 19th or 20th.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

That sucker has been getting pink noise and dang near full tilt (those little trinitys move... I hope you cover warranty problems well, LOL) for about 24 hours now. 

I tested it again last night and the fs had actually shifted upward by 2 and the qts had changed minimally. Not conclusive, so I didn't even bother to post the results.
I'll test them again tonight to see if there's any change though. 
They'll be running full tilt for another 24 hours before I start doing any listening at all. Actually, probably longer than that.


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## lycan (Dec 20, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> That sucker has been getting pink noise and dang near full tilt (those little trinitys move... I hope you cover warranty problems well, LOL) for about 24 hours now.
> 
> I tested it again last night and the fs had actually shifted upward by 2 and the qts had changed minimally. Not conclusive, so I didn't even bother to post the results.
> I'll test them again tonight to see if there's any change though.
> They'll be running full tilt for another 24 hours before I start doing any listening at all. Actually, probably longer than that.


Resonant frequency _increase_? Was the cone all dusty & dirty first time, so that hours of playing "blew the dust off"?  It's the only thing I can think of to _reduce_ the moving mass after break-in ... assuming, of course, that the suspension gets more compliant after use.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

lycan said:


> Resonant frequency _increase_? Was the cone all dusty & dirty first time, so that hours of playing "blew the dust off"?  It's the only thing I can think of to _reduce_ the moving mass after break-in ... assuming, of course, that the suspension gets more compliant after use.


Yep, which went against what I expected as well.
That’s why I considered the results inconclusive. The WT3 isn’t the most accurate thing ever, so I’m not going to trust a 0.01 difference in qts and <2hz shift in fs as much as I would a shift of 10hz in fs… just seems illogical. So, I didn’t bother to take pictures or capture the results. I attributed it to measurement error. 
Now, when I measure again tonight and if I notice the same trend, I’ll have a  look on my face.


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## lycan (Dec 20, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> Yep, which went against what I expected as well.
> That’s why I considered the results inconclusive. The WT3 isn’t the most accurate thing ever. I’m not going to trust a 0.01 difference in qts and <2hz shift in fs as much as I would a shift of 10hzfs… just seems illogical. So, I didn’t bother to take pictures or capture the results. I attributed it to measurement error.
> Now, when I measure again tonight and if I notice the same trend, I’ll have a  look on my face.


Random thought : Resonant freq depends only on Mms & Cms. Assuming Mms doesn't change (i was just being silly), we only look at Cms (suspension compliance). Of course, we _expect_ the suspension compliance to increase (get less stiff) with use. But there's some other things that can probably impact suspension compliance as well ... like, temperature & humidity.

I also don't know how accurate the WooferTester is  but to get a _really_ accurate feel about the changes before & after break-in, probably gotta keep the testing _environment_ (temp & humidity) pretty consistent as well.


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## lycan (Dec 20, 2009)

by the way, i would also expect (or at least, understand) that the _mechanical resistance_ Rms would change after use. This doesn't impact Fs, but it will directly impact Qms, and therefore Qts.

(Also, Cms not only impacts Fs, but Vas too ... of course)


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> ....*Total break in time is about 85-100 hours* for. Ryan have you experience them getting better over time? Also how is the WRX coming. I will be back in Georgia around the 11th and flying back out on the 19th or 20th.


Considering my commute to work most days is ~1mile... I guess mine aren't even broken in yet.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

lycan said:


> Random thought : Resonant freq depends only on Mms & Cms. Assuming Mms doesn't change (i was just being silly), we only look at Cms (suspension compliance). Of course, we _expect_ the suspension compliance to increase (get less stiff) with use. But there's some other things that can probably impact suspension compliance as well ... like, temperature & humidity.
> 
> I also don't know how accurate the WooferTester is  but to get a _really_ accurate feel about the changes before & after break-in, probably gotta keep the testing _environment_ (temp & humidity) pretty consistent as well.


one step ahead of you... 

I tested the drivers in the house, both times on my kitchen bar… in the same location, too. LOL.

In all seriousness, I had accounted for the potential for temp/humidity to affect the results, so yes, I am testing inside my home with the temp kept stable. 

Previously, I had tested the drivers on various surfaces too, just to see if there was any impact. If I’m going to be making references between many different drivers (when I start testing and comparing various things throughout the future), and I wanted to be confident that the surface doesn’t matter (ie: carpet, granite, concrete, etc).


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## lycan (Dec 20, 2009)

bikinpunk said:


> one step ahead of you...
> 
> I tested the drivers in the house, both times on my kitchen bar… in the same location, too. LOL.
> 
> ...


bikinpunk = smarter than the average bear 

(already knew that, of course, by his choice of car & build logs)


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

slade1274 said:


> Considering my commute to work most days is ~1mile... I guess mine aren't even broken in yet.


That should be at least a couple of hours in Atlanta traffic shouldn't it?

>^..^<


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

Catman said:


> That should be at least a couple of hours in Atlanta traffic shouldn't it?
> 
> >^..^<


LOL... totally possible. Mine is only 5 minutes door to door- or about one song.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

slade1274 said:


> Considering my commute to work most days is ~1mile... I guess mine aren't even broken in yet.


My commute is 5.5 miles and about 8 mins. When y'all heard my set they were still pretty fresh. They've warmed up quite a bit since then. From now on if I don't buy my speakers used fresh out of someones car I'm going to run pinknoise through them for about a week straight before install. It takes me over a month to get enough hours on a pair of speakers for them to level out.

Mark, if we do the Reference swap at Erins will you make sure they have a proper break-in before it happens?


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I pulled these off the bench last night, after having the mids get about 60+ hours of pinknoise at moderate to high volume levels (exercising the CRAP out of the suspension ).

Threw the WT3 on it after it sat inside for about an hour and still no discernible difference.

I'll take a screenshot later.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I’ve had the mids on the bench for a bit longer now so they should be 100% broken in and ready for listening. I should be doing my listening tests this weekend and posting pictures as well as my own ‘notes’ for each song. All the drivers are wired up with 20' wire hanging off them so I can run the wires from the drivers, around the car, and to the amps. 

I’m planning on sticking with about 4-5 songs I know well. I will take notes on things such as width, depth, ambience, detail, tonality, focus, etc. 
I will be trying multiple positions and locations as well.
I haven’t decided just yet how I will pull off phase and time alignment. Most likely I will use these, but will not use EQ at all. 

So, stay tuned, I reckon’. ; )


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

So are you going to be dropping them into your pods that have the Scans and Hertz tweeters? Then do a retune to see if you want to convert to H-Audio? Considering how much the drivers you're running retail for it would be funny if the modestly priced H-Audio drivers whipped them.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

That's one of the options, yes.

And, that's exactly why I'm testing them, too. 

Initially, all I want to do is try to do various things to see how I like the tonality out of the box in my car. In ryan's car, I loved them. So, I should be satisfied. Then I want to test for things such as width, focus, etc in various positions. 

I still think it's going to be very hard for anything to top the 12m. Smoothest midrange I've ever heard.


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## 2LOUD2OLD (Aug 1, 2008)

how much is the trinity midrange? cant seem to find any pricing.
just wondering how it compares to the Fountek FR88 and the Tang Band W3 in both performance and price


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


> That's one of the options, yes.
> 
> And, that's exactly why I'm testing them, too.
> 
> ...




exactly what I was thinking....


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

2LOUD2OLD said:


> how much is the trinity midrange? cant seem to find any pricing.
> just wondering how it compares to the Fountek FR88 and the Tang Band W3 in both performance and price


Stereo Clarity Trinity

You can also PM Mark (H Audio Here I Come)


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## friction (Apr 24, 2008)

@ bikinpunk 

Have you tested the H-audio Beryllium Cone Wide Bander?Has It been released in the USA?To my knowledge they came 1st and 2nd in japan last month.I have ordered few sets of them including ceramic and kevlar widbanders.I am looking forward to a review on them from team H-audio


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Last I talked to Mark, he was working on getting them here. So, they haven't been released yet in the US.

I'll let him handle the details if he'd like.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

We do not have the beryllium ones yet. I spoke with Mark about this a few days ago. Like bikini said, we're working on getting them here for you guys.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

friction said:


> @ bikinpunk
> 
> Have you tested the H-audio Beryllium Cone Wide Bander?Has It been released in the USA?To my knowledge they came 1st and 2nd in japan last month.I have ordered few sets of them including ceramic and kevlar widbanders.I am looking forward to a review on them from team H-audio


You had to let the cat out the bag Friction.

But yes they will be on the way very soon. And yes guys the new Be Alloy drivers are something very special. Not the cheapest drivers, But I promise to keep the price way below what the comparable competition price point is, which will more then likely be 3-4 times more costly then the New BeM 3 and BeM 6. The new BeM Series is geared to compete with the Ultra High-End Offerings from other companies.

Details to be release soon. As H-Audio has went thru some small changes because of a few things that has transpired of late. All for the best.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I need to get my butt into gear and start testing these things so I can compare them to the Be drivers, LOL.

I spent all weekend cleaning up the garage instead, though. I got tired of not having room to store stuff and got in gung-ho mode.
Now I've got to finish up and replace a headlight. 

bikinpunk = slacker when testing


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Mark, when will the new reference drivers be available? Unfortunately the Be series won't fit my install as a whole and I won't have one without the other...just like my amps MUST be matching even though they're tucked out of sight and could have hot pink sinks with a dildo etched in for all I care


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## sam3535 (Jan 21, 2007)

fixored



Hillbilly SQ said:


> my amps are matching even though they're tucked out of sight and have hot pink sinks with a dildo etched in


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## MaxPowers (Oct 25, 2007)

These look very interesting. Bikinpunk--will you still have these at the GTG? would like to audition them. If not I will go ahead and purchase some and do my own audition.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Not sure.
The pair I'm using are on loan. The owner may have these available for audition. If I decide to keep them and use them, then I'll order a set and give the loaners back.
Some of the guys coming out may have them installed in their cars, though.

If I do have them, then I'll be glad to let you audition them. That, or maybe Mark would bring some if he comes out... or maybe send a set for demo. That's his call, though.


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## MaxPowers (Oct 25, 2007)

Yeah, I just went ahead and PMed Mark about buying a pair. If I dont end up using them in my next install I can always follow your signatures advice.


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## friction (Apr 24, 2008)

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> You had to let the cat out the bag Friction.


Sorry Mark


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

MaxPowers said:


> Yeah, I just went ahead and PMed Mark about buying a pair. If I dont end up using them in my next install I can always follow your signatures advice.


Sweet.

My lazy butt needs to get to testing these, but I"m just not looking forward to removing my pillars and making spacer rings for these drivers as part of testing them in my currently used location for mid/tweet.


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## Need-sq (May 26, 2007)

I just purchased a pair. I did so going against the "best practices for purchasing speaker".......Audition a billion and buy the onse that you like. First of all that approach, albeit a good one, is simply not practical. Second, if you've listened to a nymber of systems with various drivers etc., and have established a true reference for yourself, than you can venture to guess how a driver may "behave/sounds, in very general terms of course.

Sometimes you just get a feeling. This is what happened to me with the Trinity drivers. For quite a while a was pretty much set on either a HAT L3 or L4, but something kept on bringing me back to these. So, I heeded my "water stick" and pulled the trigger on these guys. . I can't wait to get them 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, especially since I'm a scientist of sorts by training, but I think they're gonna do exactly whay I need them to do......And of course, if that's not the case than I simply heed Bikins signature, or try them out in a different application.

Man do I write way more than I have to, to get a point across, or not get it across:blush:


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Need-sq said:


> Man do I write way more than I have to, to get a point across, or not get it across:blush:


I catch myself editing my posts a lot for this very reason. 


Glad you ordered a pair. Having heard them in Ryan's car, untuned (saw the DSP settings myself) and having Mark Brooks co-pilot the crossover settings, I'm aware of what they can do in Ryan's car and the tonality was much to my liking. Going to 300hz @ 12dB up to 9khz was also well within these drivers' limits.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I can't wait to hear Ryans car with a good tune. He was a real trooper doing what he did in the amount of time he did it!


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

sam3535 said:


> fixored


GREAT, now everyone knows I got my amps powdercoated and etched


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## MaxPowers (Oct 25, 2007)

If it adds ess-que I think everyone will be copying you. 



Hillbilly SQ said:


> GREAT, now everyone knows I got my amps powdercoated and etched


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

MaxPowers said:


> If it adds ess-que I think everyone will be copying you.


Naw, my amps are ugly enough as is so luckally I don't have to look at them. I love my Xenons even if they do look like a silver spaceship:surprised:


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Erin, don't make me build adapter rings and test these drivers in my car before you do. I have a set on loan from a very gracious DIYMA member but was bit by the "lazy bug" as well. Wanna race??


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

LOL!

I know you Zach... you'll probably flake out on me! 



J/K! 

Realistically, I have all the time in the world to test them this week. I need to do it, but UK is playing Miss St. tonight so come 8pm, my butt is glued to the couch.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Oh, that's a low blow!! LOL!! Well played sir.

I shouldn't talk too much junk though as I've had the H-Audio drivers here for some time now.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

see... slacker!


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> see... slacker!


Hello Pot, my name is Kettle. Oh my, I see that you're black too. LOL!!!!


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## MaxPowers (Oct 25, 2007)

Boostedrex said:


> Hello Pot, my name is Kettle. Oh my, I see that you're black too. LOL!!!!


lol I see that going in somebodys sig


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Mark,

Beryllium huh? Any specs yet? I'm really loving my Trinity's.

Hope all is well with the company...

Justin 




H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> You had to let the cat out the bag Friction.
> 
> But yes they will be on the way very soon. And yes guys the new Be Alloy drivers are something very special. Not the cheapest drivers, But I promise to keep the price way below what the comparable competition price point is, which will more then likely be 3-4 times more costly then the New BeM 3 and BeM 6. The new BeM Series is geared to compete with the Ultra High-End Offerings from other companies.
> 
> Details to be release soon. As H-Audio has went thru some small changes because of a few things that has transpired of late. All for the best.


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

Weightless said:


> Mark,
> 
> Beryllium huh? Any specs yet? I'm really loving my Trinity's.
> 
> ...


Specs? Bah.... Be = Pimp


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## MaxPowers (Oct 25, 2007)

deleted.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

^ why that info in this thread?


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## MaxPowers (Oct 25, 2007)

srry was just excited. consider deleted.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

no prob. just thought you had the wrong thread.

at this rate, I'm dumping in my own thread. LOL.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

slade1274 said:


> Specs? Bah.... Be = Pimp



You're right. Specs...sheesh. Pics or it didn't happen!

The cat's out of the bag now!


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

OK guys, here is a sneek peek of the new H-Audio BeM 3 and BeM 6.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

It looks like the BeM 3 has phase plug envy...


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## sam3535 (Jan 21, 2007)

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> OK guys, here is a sneek peek of the new H-Audio BeM 3 and BeM 6.


Just let me know when you are shipping those widebanders to me!


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## jooonnn (Jul 26, 2009)

Pretty nice looking BeM 3


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

You could put someones eye out with that plug on the widebander

Mark, is the Ref series still in the works or did that lineup fall through?


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> You could put someones eye out with that plug on the widebander
> 
> Mark, is the Ref series still in the works or did that lineup fall through?


Still in the works!

prototype Ref 3


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

I like the truncated frame. It helps with a-pillar integration.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Well crap, the Bes are definitely not going to fit in my car. 

Mark, any plans for a shallow 4" and 8"? By shallow I mean 2" on the 4" and maybe 2.5" on the 8".


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> Still in the works!
> 
> prototype Ref 3


I'd of course need the 2's and 6's.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Guess who has the Trinitys installed and running? I'll bet the answer isn't Erin.  These things do sound sweet! I like them so far. Only a few minutes with them as of now though. Need some more time to go through my reference CD's.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Are they broken in? I noticed a difference after a few days of pink noise.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Weightless said:


> Are they broken in? I noticed a difference after a few days of pink noise.


I'm going to assume that they're broken in. I have them on loan from another DIYMA member who was using them in his car for a while.

I got about an hour of listening time in on them this morning before work. There is a noticeable improvement in the midrange with the Trinity over the RS100 that was being used. I listened to some of my favorite drum tracks too and the skin tone from snares and toms is really great. More testing to come.


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## friction (Apr 24, 2008)

@Mark

Just received my be cones and ceramic cone (ivory) ref series,must say they look really cool .Just need time to burn in and review in a new thread , I really like the ref series. Good first impression.Quite surprised though as to why its not entered USA.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Boostedrex said:


> I'm going to assume that they're broken in. I have them on loan from another DIYMA member who was using them in his car for a while.
> 
> I got about an hour of listening time in on them this morning before work. There is a noticeable improvement in the midrange with the Trinity over the RS100 that was being used. I listened to some of my favorite drum tracks too and the skin tone from snares and toms is really great. More testing to come.


Yeah, I think they had about 20 hours play time minimum, so they should be good to go 

If you all recall, I was testing multiple drivers for _full range_ use including these trinity's. I think they are a fantastic driver to be used as a wide-bander/midrange. They are best suited paired with a tweeter. The midrange is detailed, yet smooth. Very nice drivers.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Yeah Steve, I'd say they're broken in enough. 

These things really do sound great. Best vocal tonality I've had in my car to date with the combination of the Trinity mid and the Zuki 6 channel. I also am running these in a BIG passband. 200Hz-6KHz and they're clean all the way around.


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

I would suggest you try them to 9k; but I know how much you love those rings and would hate for you to relegate them to "super" duty.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

slade1274 said:


> I would suggest you try them to 9k; but I know how much you love those rings and would hate for you to relegate them to "super" duty.


There are some changes coming in the install soon.  I'll be sure to see how things pan out though. Enigma's might end up in my pods when it's all said and done.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

any chance the trinitys could run full range?

Jay


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

JayinMI said:


> any chance the trinitys could run full range?
> 
> Jay


Fullrange as in no low pass filter? Yes, I think they could do that. But I wouldn't try to run them without a high pass filter as you'd have very limited output. I know they do just fine in 1.2L sealed HP'd at 200Hz though.


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

Boostedrex said:


> There are some changes coming in the install soon.  I'll be sure to see how things pan out though. Enigma's might end up in my pods when it's all said and done.


Remember- pics or it didn't happen


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

JayinMI said:


> any chance the trinitys could run full range?
> 
> Jay


You will likely be left wanting a bit more top end if running full range. You could probably get decent enough with some EQ, but I'd really recommend using these with a tweeter. They are a wideband driver, but they were designed for use with the Enigma tweeter. And that is how they will sound best


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

friction said:


> @Mark
> 
> Just received my be cones and ceramic cone (ivory) ref series,must say they look really cool .Just need time to burn in and review in a new thread , I really like the ref series. Good first impression.Quite surprised though as to why its not entered USA.



hmmm can we get these yet in the states???


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

newtitan said:


> hmmm can we get these yet in the states???


Mark covered this already:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/961816-post32.html



H-Audio - AKA - Here-I-Come said:


> You had to let the cat out the bag Friction.
> 
> But yes they will be on the way very soon. And yes guys the new Be Alloy drivers are something very special. Not the cheapest drivers, But I promise to keep the price way below what the comparable competition price point is, which will more then likely be 3-4 times more costly then the New BeM 3 and BeM 6. The new BeM Series is geared to compete with the Ultra High-End Offerings from other companies.
> 
> Details to be release soon. As H-Audio has went thru some small changes because of a few things that has transpired of late. All for the best.


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## thsiow10 (Nov 16, 2007)

No review?

just always saw this : "Stay Tune ..."


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## MaxPowers (Oct 25, 2007)

JayinMI said:


> any chance the trinitys could run full range?
> 
> Jay


Are you asking if these could be run tweeterless? 

I asked Mark this question his response:

"They work very well tweeters on axis, but as with all wide-band drivers the more you go off-axis the less top-end info you get at the listening postion. Just a little note, if your planning to run them tweeters buy yourself some WBT silver soilder. It help out the top-end up a little on them. Believe me when the designer/builder told me this I was like ya right, but I tried it and it did make a difference in the top end.

Just remember the Trinity is a smooth, but detailed driver, so mounting and angle is key when ran tweeters, but I can live with them tweeter-less easy. Just a little eq up top and your golden."


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## MaxPowers (Oct 25, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> You will likely be left wanting a bit more top end if running full range. You could probably get decent enough with some EQ, but I'd really recommend using these with a tweeter. They are a wideband driver, but they were designed for use with the Enigma tweeter. *And that is how they will sound best*


Next your going to say the Hybrid L4 sounds best with the L1 Pro tweeter. I have used it both ways, in my next car they will be without. Its all personal preference, and I prefer less on the top end.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I purchased the EET set and I am putting them on the bench today to start the break in on the entire set up. I have never done this before and my buddy has a test bench setup. What do I need to do? Can the speakers just sit on the bench and have pink noise run thru them or do they need to be in enclosures? Do you run pink noise or tone sweeps? I am going to try to get this done today and tomorrow while I deaden the car.

On a seperate note, while I save for a bit1 or an H701 combo or figure out what the hell to do to run this 3 way is it OK to run them with a set of 3 way passives that I had picked up a while back? They are the Hertz 3X.30 passives. Thoughts and recommendations are GREATLY appreciated


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## Need-sq (May 26, 2007)

MaxPowers said:


> Are you asking if these could be run tweeterless?
> 
> I asked Mark this question his response:
> Just remember the Trinity is a smooth, but detailed driver, so mounting and angle is key when ran tweeters, but I can live with them tweeter-less easy. Just a little eq up top and your golden."



I got my set the other day I have a total of about an hour listening to them with my car's stock location without my system installed (i.e off the Saab Harmon K system, which sucks) that being said, I know, right off the batt that they are exactly this: _"Just remember the Trinity is a smooth, but detailed driver, so mounting and angle is key when ran tweeters..."_.

At the risk of sounding like a potential "forum boner bandwagon poster" (not a bad phrase actually).......I really do hear the potential in these speakers, and cannot wait to pair them up with my SS 6600 (Air Circs) in the A pillars and the SS 18W in the doors, actively. My opinion, let's call it extrapolation to make it sound more science-like, is the Trinity's will fill the 300Hz-400Hz-7k perfectly between the two SS drivers. With the damped/impregnated (whatever it is) AL cone it may very well strike a beautiful balance between the treated paper of the 18W and the Silk dome of the 6600. My hope is to get slightly more "openess" and "airyness/space" in the upper midrange and lower treble,(vocals, some of the strings etc.), and have them blend with the Air Circs from 7k-25k (the tweets will be mounted mid way up the A pillars but turned to be more on axis, not cross firing. Hopefully I'll get them no more than 30-40degrees off, if possible without being to ugly. the Trinity's will be on the dash, way out to the corners but I'm going to mount them so they too will be more on axis than the stock mounting position, which puts them nearly 75 degrees off-axis. I'm hoping to get 45*.

Please forgive my jump on a "review" of sorts, but my biggest struggle so far has been picking a mid. So, with all of one hour of listening I am very exicted to get my system up and believe the Trinity's will do the Job. However, I do see myself possibly tying out the L3s-L4s later on down the line if I feel the need, or just for ****s and giggles. More info to come and forgive if I have intruded on the OP thread.

Thanks Mark and Sorry for your loss. You're a stand up dude.

-Ben


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Chef, I ran pink noise on mine and let 'em rip. 

Just be smart about it.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

So I hate to bring back a thread that hasnt been posted in for weeks but I finally got the Trinity mid in the dash running from 315hz and up thru an Adcom 4402 and without any real tuning or a full break in all I can say is WOW!!! I paired it up with a Dynaudio MD192 doing duty as a mid/sub in the doors and the combo is really smooth. A little peaky/bright in the upper mids but with some more break in and some tuning I think it will smooth out. More on this as they get more time and I get to play and postition them. I do have a set of Enigma tweeters in car audio purgatory waiting to be used in the center channel just incase I need more on the very top but at this point I think I am set.


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

any word on the updated version of these?


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

MaxPowers said:


> Next your going to say the Hybrid L4 sounds best with the L1 Pro tweeter. I have used it both ways, in my next car they will be without. Its all personal preference, and I prefer less on the top end.



Max, I think you misunderstood me. Im not saying you need to use only the "H-Audio Enigma" tweeter with these, I'm saying that these drivers naturally roll off early and as a result, lack top end frequency response in full range use. They were designed to be used with the Enigma tweeter because of this roll off. You could use EQ to compensate or ANY brand tweeter, that was the point.
In your case, if you prefer less detail in the upper frequencies, thats great as it requires less equipment and processing 

Oh, and the HAT L4 DOES sound better with a tweeter (and NO, it doesnt have to be the L1PRO  )


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Capt is mostly correct, the Enigma was designed to be used with the Trinity if the end user thought there was a need. As Capt said, if you going to run them wide-band (the word full-range is just to miss-leading for me) form say 300hz and up without a tweeter some EQ work may be need on the very top end to bring the higher end detail to a level you would like. The Enigma is a High-Resonant tweeter design to mate with the Trinity around 7khz and up. Running the Trinity below that point is a waste IMHO.

Can it be ran without a tweeter? The answer is YES!! 

Can it be done to a very high level? The answer is again YES and I direct you to a Team member Chefhow. That is doing extremely will in MECA with such a set-up. He is nearly in the 80's on his score sheet. He is a true testament that with hard work and a little help, you can have amazing sounding system that also kicks some butt in the lanes. 

Chefhow hope you don't mind me post your system layout. If so I will remove it.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

No worries at all Mark


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

chefhow said:


> No worries at all Mark


9" midbasses and no subwoofer?  

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice... 
Kelvin


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

the MW192 is a 12" woofer / subwoofer. i was thinking of a similar setup as well with a pair of trinity's in the kicks and a pari of 10 sb acoustic woofers in the doors ... come on springtime, i need to get cracking on a new system!!


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Yeah read that right after posting - my bad  

Kelvin


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Actually vactor I spoke with Emilio about the entire system that came with the car and the MW192's are a 9.6" IB woofer that plays double duty in the Volvo system as both a midbass and a sub. There are 4 of them in the car, 1 in each door(those are paired up with an MD140 and an MD101) and 2 in the rear deck. The rear deck 192's are crossed over to play as a sub and the ones in the door are a mid bass.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

chefhow said:


> Actually vactor I spoke with Emilio about the entire system that came with the car and the MW192's are a 9.6" IB woofer that plays double duty in the Volvo system as both a midbass and a sub. There are 4 of them in the car, 1 in each door(those are paired up with an MD140 and an MD101) and 2 in the rear deck. The rear deck 192's are crossed over to play as a sub and the ones in the door are a mid bass.


Correct.

Loving your signature!:thumbsup:


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