# how to put dynamat etc...out of business



## vtec97

Ok I've been hunting a cheap alternative to dynamat, raamat and all the other high priced sound deadening mats. Ok so if 2 1'x1' autozone brand cost 20 bucks ima take a guess and say dyna would cost 40 (never priced it like I said, I'm cheap). Enter the 7 dollar (ballpark figure) 20"x35"(close estimate) replacement. Sorry no pics but this aint rocket science. What u need: a Dollar General, a car, a 3 dollar rubber welcome mat from thAt DG, and while ur there grab a box of heavy duty aluminum foil, spray adhesive, and either liquid nails or contact adhesive. Hmmmmm all the sudden its coming together aint it? Well the sray adhesive is for the foil which I feel u nee to quadruple to 4 layers. Then, glure that to the rubber. Wow looks like something u would pay a lot more for don't it? Even a little thicker. Then use the nails(use little screws to hold it till it dries) or contact cement and go to town on ur doors. Trust me it works.


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## b&camp

Have you ever handled real sound deadener? It's not exactly a thin doormat and tinfoil.


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## vtec97

Maybe not but it works


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## Southnash

Haha....you have pics??? I can't wait!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## vtec97

And yeah I have feels and looks just like the real thing. Oh wait the real thing has adhesive. My bad, the only difference


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## vtec97

Ill take some pics and post them tommorrow


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## jcollin76

Really? Um...


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## Southnash

Awesome!!! Ill leave my real comments after the pics... when does full blown manufacturing start??

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## vtec97

ummm really


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## vtec97

[email protected]@  its a cheap DIY sound deadening that works don't hate cuz u spent hundreds of dollars


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## jcollin76

There is a little more science that goes into it I think. Not knocking you trying something different, or trying to stretch a dollar..not at all.

But all your doing is adding mass, maybe a barrier, depending on how well you seal the seams, and attach it to the surface to be treated.

The good companies that make sound deadening spend a lot of time and money on R&D. It's not just finding some rubber, sticking foil on it, and calling it good. 

That's why lower end companies are lower end, they're of the mindset... If it looks like it, it must work.

I find the BXTII from raamaudio to be pretty inexpensive and on par with performance of other companies. If you were to make your product in the same amount as a flat of it, what would the cost difference be.... Better question, what would the performance difference be using the same amounts in an A/B comparison?


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## vtec97

Good point. And I won't lie I haven't used any of the other companies products. Just had a brainstorm over the weekend and after one mat in the passenger door I noticed a difference in the reduction of road noise. As well the door sounds more solid with less resonances. After half the door. I'm prepping the second pad tnight and gonna apply it tommorrow gonna shoot for two layers on the inside metal and one on the plastic panel. Yeah there is some prep work involved, but it might end being a surprisingly cheap and as if not more effective alternative. Then again maybe not as effective. I don't have any test tools but my ears. But if I noticed a difference with half the door done I imagine the results will be dramatic when finished.


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## jcollin76

Run with it man, really. If it's on the cheap, you don't mind the extra work, it's all good.

Most people attest they get results from most anything they do to deaden their vehicle. It's just how good are those results, and did it accomplish what they wanted.

A lot of the time people use the wrong product for the problem. For example... A mat deadener will stop vibrations (or lessen) and lower resonant frequency, but only do a little for road noise. The masses see a mat deadener as the end all product. When it's really just a part of it. 
Ccf and MLV also need to be entered into the equation For optimal results. That way all areas can addressed, panel vibrations, road noise, trim panel vibrations, reflective surfaces, etc.


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## vtec97

Oh yeah I got tempur material on my outer skin


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## goodstuff

Rudy? 
pAgING rudeBOY.......


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## ANT

BRB
Moving this thread from the How-To section to the How-Don't Section..


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## jcollin76

Lol I tried...


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## goodstuff

jcollin76 said:


> Lol I tried...


I couldn't bring myself to do the same so I tried to summon help...


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## vtec97

What a collective bunch of bozos. If ya can't sell it or make money off it, its a bad idea. Maybe some of us don't have the money to spend on name brand deadener. Does that mean we aren't allowed to improve our SQ? How bout being just a little more positive about an idea that actually works. So what if it aint raamat. Don't dissuade someone else from trying it by being negative about it. Use your head for something else than something to grow hair out of. This actually works. Find ya a test car, do it, then come back and say, "damn hondaboy was right". I put this idea out there for ppl with a love for sound but little money. Ya know 80 percent of the world.


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## goodstuff

RUUUUUUUUUUDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

I'll start...
OK so you said it "works". What does it "DO"?


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## jcollin76

Bozos? Really why is that? I didn't bash ya, or resort to name calling... I presented facts and valid arguments. 
I asked of A/B comparisons, and inquired about the goal of you mat. Also asking what particular noise issues your were using the mat to fight....

Now, take into account the owner of this forum previous business, not to mention other members, that own deadening business, that frequent this site. They did research, tried different components, etc. If it was that easy, wouldn't they have done it or tried it?
There are good products, and junk products out there. What separates them is putting research, time, and effort into the development of the product.

Where does your solution fall?


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## goodstuff

jcollin76 said:


> Bozos? Really why is that? I didn't bash ya, or resort to name calling... I presented facts and valid arguments.
> I asked of A/B comparisons, and inquired about the goal of you mat. Also asking what particular noise issues your were using the mat to fight....
> 
> Now, take into account the owner of this forum previous business, not to mention other members, that own deadening business, that frequent this site. They did research, tried different components, etc. If it was that easy, wouldn't they have done it or tried it?
> There are good products, and junk products out there. What separates them is putting research, time, and effort into the development of the product.
> 
> Where does your solution fall?


And also tell us where ANYONE said ANYTHING even close to: 
"if you can't sell it or make money, it's a bad idea"....
Don't speak for anyone but yourself, 
even then you might still want to reconsider....


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## Darth SQ

Still waiting for said pics.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## vtec97

Sorry bout the bozo quip. I just feel that this is a DIY site and I offered a cheap DIY alternative. Its not about research or business, only about offering an idea to those that don't want to spend 500-1000 bucks on a complete treatment. Sure might get better results. But pound for dollar it can't be beat


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## jcollin76

vtec97 said:


> Sorry bout the bozo quip. I just feel that this is a DIY site and I offered a cheap DIY alternative. Its not about research or business, only about offering an idea to those that don't want to spend 500-1000 bucks on a complete treatment. Sure might get better results. But pound for dollar it can't be beat


And I completely agree... We all try to find new and/or cheap ways to do things, but...

First off, the title is laced with arrogance..like it's the end all, be all alternative. Much better if titled a cheap alternative, or deadening experiment, or anything not shouting 'look at me'.

It could've been given to us as... Hey I tried this in my door, added good mass, acts similar to a MLV or something, what do you guys think...
It's not so much what you presented, but how you presented it.
Not to mention when people take time to post replies and questions, you instantly drop 'smartass' and bozo' comments... And one of the masses you included, was the owner of the site. Not terribly smart.

I'm all about trying new things and saving money, show us how, tell us why, show proof... Don't just expect us to jump right on it cuz you say so...

Okay... Done with my rant. Lol


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## Phreaxer

pics? I would love to have you send me a small piece to compare to my raamat (I just got my package today in fact). Would you be willing to cut me a small piece, slip it in an envelope and mail it off? 

I'm always up to find a new solution, but I have to get over the skeptism I have first. 

Also, how cheap is this when you add in the adhesive costs to the product cost?


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## Fricasseekid

So I guess we should start taking anything with mass, wrapping it with tinfoil, and glueing it to our cars?


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## b&camp

Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information

Great product at good prices.


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## Phreaxer

Fricasseekid said:


> So I guess we should start taking anything with mass, wrapping it with tinfoil, and glueing it to our cars?


man are my kids going to be pissed when their playdough goes missing...


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## Fricasseekid

Phreaxer said:


> man are my kids going to be pissed when their playdough goes missing...


Lol, just think of the possibilities! If word of this gets out we could start finding all kinds of stuff inside peoples car doors. As for myself I have some old silverware, and some DVDs that I never turned back in to blockbuster. I wasn't sure what to do with it but now I know that if I just jb weld it to my door skin it could improve my soundstage!


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## jcollin76

Phreaxer said:


> man are my kids going to be pissed when their playdough goes missing...


Lol little truth there... 'Borrowed' a jar of BB's from the boys before. Lol they thought it was cool though.


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## vtec97

Lol I get yalls point. Presented badly. No its not professional grade stuff but shoot, 7-10 bucks per piece? Can't beat it. Still perfecting it tho liquid nails not ideal, ima try rubber mastic and see how that goes.


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## b&camp

Real CLD, 6"x10" tile, $2.65 each. And I dont have to glue it together myself.

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/cld

btw, the aluminum in that is thick enough that you really have to be careful not to cut yourself if installing it without gloves. Quite literally twice as thick as a pop can. 0.008" vs. 0.004" measured with micrometers.


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## vtec97

Ok I got some pics loaded into my albums


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## shnitz

I see no pictures, but I have to agree that looks aren't everything as far as a product goes. Just because it looks like what the pros use, it doesn't mean that it functions correctly. I've been into the world of modifying cars a long time, and I've seen a lot of people do a lot of things to try and "beat the system," from running hydrogen injection to using roofing mats as sound deadening (don't, it gives off a tar smell, outgassing). There's DIY, and there's ghetto fabbed. 

My advice is to take a step back, take a deep breath, and rethink everything. What are your priorities? Judging by your name, I assume you have either a 1997 Civic or Accord. We drive a 1998 Accord and a 1999 Civic. Money is definitely a limiting factor for us, just as it seems to be for you. For our Accord, we were actually quite happy just changing out the head unit (it's a V6 EX, so it had the "premium" sound system) with a Pioneer mid-level one. It drives the speakers so well that we're doing nothing else to it. The Civic is actually the reason that I joined this forum. It had crappy Sony Xplod equipment in it, and it sounded farrrrr worse than the paper speakers in our Accord. We ended up putting Pioneer A-series 6x9 for rear fill, Kicker DS components up front, and a Kenwood head unit. We're very happy with the sound, as it's at least as good as the Accord now. Thanks to Craigslist (and Best Buy's clearance), we were able to upgrade the sound from something that annoyed us to something that we're very pleased with, for less than $400. That's about our budget, considering this is barely a $3,000 car.

I've helped friends in SCCA, BMW CCA, Porsche CCA, etc. all make custom parts for their cars, from brackets to splitters to brake ducting. It was made in places as mundane as a friend's parent's garage, from jigsaws, circular saws, clamps, and scrap metal. One thing you need to realize is that there's a difference between "custom made" and "homemade." If you do things poorly, then it will be immediately apparent. You can still be professional without buying off of a store shelf.

That being said, your solution looks to be pretty poorly planned. Just because it looks like sound deadening, doesn't mean that it works well. People get too caught up on looks: they need to add a spoiler because that's what they see on race cars, or they need cross-drilled slotted huge brakes because that's what they see on a Lamborghini (case in point: my Civic stops faster and handles better with the factory brake drums than it would with a full-on disk brake conversion with big brake kit). Modifications aren't done for the sake of modifying the car; they're done to improve an aspect/shortcoming of a vehicle.

I'd venture that it weighs a TON compared to "real" sound deadening (very much not good, especially if you have a 4 cylinder car. Look at how much money the street racers throw at their cars to shave the pounds. Weight is one of your biggest enemies in the automotive world), and it doesn't block sound as well. It's probably thicker too, which is also very bad when you're dealing with limited space. I think you need to go back to the drawing board, because you don't seem to be thinking out what you're doing. OK, it LOOKS like the real thing. What's the purpose of the rubber mat? What's the purpose of the aluminum? What have you gained by gluing aluminum to the mat, that you didn't have from just a blank rubber mat?


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## vtec97

Actually it weighs the same as sound deadener. Why the aluminum? Don't know, why does sound deadener have aluminum? My guess? A layer of metal helps stop the transmission of sound, a little, while the rubber? Why does sound deadener have rubber? Another guess, control resonances. Nice, u got a civic with pioneer, kenwood etc etc. I won't bash that. Not bad choices. I'm runnin full alpine type x. And weight? Sorry I care more about sound quality than I do about a few extra pounds. My civic is a daily driver. Yeah I got a turbo I plan on puttin on. But wanna rebuild head. So yeah, I wanna save money on some aspects to spend on others. And my turbo? 26 bucks. Yeah I'm trying to be cheap. All I know is that it works. Its that simple. Don't really care if u take my word or not.


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## jcollin76

Don't want to argue with ya, and not my intention. but if you you'd like to learn why and how certain deadening materials work, read up on it here.

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

Only if you want to understand it that is. The site sells product yes, but more so it's full of technical information and tests. Great resource for info. It could help you in picking diy components, and understanding why to pick them.


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## vtec97

Yeah I looked on there. And got some good stuff. I realized I'm gonna at the very least buy some MLV. My little trick is for resonances from what I read. Hey no biggy. And yeah it looks like the CLD tiles are cheaper. I didn't know that until u posted that link. I stand corrected. But my idea is still viable and it works. At the very least it will be good to put on the plastic door panel.


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## Sleeves

Full Alpine type X system? I'd love to hear one of those, you should stop by my shop sometime. I could also let you see some a couple of brands of sound deadening. I have some Dynamat and Ballistic here, and have used Raamat for a customer so I'm familiar with it too. You can check those out (since you said you've never worked with them) and I could see how effective your new solution is. I'm 15 minutes down the road in Kinston, across from the mall.


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## Darth SQ

vtec97 said:


> Actually it weighs the same as sound deadener. Why the aluminum? Don't know, why does sound deadener have aluminum? My guess? A layer of metal helps stop the transmission of sound, a little, while the rubber? Why does sound deadener have rubber? Another guess, control resonances. Nice, u got a civic with pioneer, kenwood etc etc. I won't bash that. Not bad choices. I'm runnin full alpine type x. And weight? Sorry I care more about sound quality than I do about a few extra pounds. My civic is a daily driver. Yeah I got a turbo I plan on puttin on. But wanna rebuild head. So yeah, I wanna save money on some aspects to spend on others. And my turbo? 26 bucks. Yeah I'm trying to be cheap. All I know is that it works. Its that simple. Don't really care if u take my word or not.


...................pictures.


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## rytekproject

Its hard to beat SDS, great products and price points. A lot of things will probably work in sound deadening but they may be a short term solution, or not be as efficient. Cant knock the desire to innovate though.


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## Second Skin Rep Jon

I'm all for people using their noggin and come up with some cool or innovative alternatives to overpriced CLD products. Only issue is that most people don't understand how CLD products work, just what they look and feel like, hints why Peel & Seal is used as an alternative constantly.

Most (if not all) of the people who use an alternative, be it a poorly conceived DIY concoction or a cheap alternative (a roofing product), are the first to say "_it's better than nothing_", "_it works for me_", or "_it made a difference_". The fact is that they have not used a properly designed vibration damper and have no comparison to base these statements on.

I've sent out samples upon samples of product to show people there is a huge difference between the products they were using (mostly cheap roofing membranes from hardware stores) and a true CLD and not a single one has ever looked back at the alternatives.


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## Fricasseekid

Second Skin Rep Jon said:


> I'm all for people using their noggin and come up with some cool or innovative alternatives to overpriced CLD products. Only issue is that most people don't understand how CLD products work, just what they look and feel like, hints why Peel & Seal is used as an alternative constantly.
> 
> Most (if not all) of the people who use an alternative, be it a poorly conceived DIY concoction or a cheap alternative (a roofing product), are the first to say "_it's better than nothing_", "_it works for me_", or "_it made a difference_". The fact is that they have not used a properly designed vibration damper and have no comparison to base these statements on.
> 
> I've sent out samples upon samples of product to show people there is a huge difference between the products they were using (mostly cheap roofing membranes from hardware stores) and a true CLD and not a single one has ever looked back at the alternatives.


Convert me! I'd love some free samples to sway my opinion!


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## goodstuff

Check out cascade audio engineering as well.


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## Southnash

Check out Hushmat....Made in America for over 20yrs (keep jobs HERE), great adhesive, doesn't cut your hands, no heat gun, and very flexible....great price!! You can buy it directly from their website!!!!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## ANT

Southnash said:


> Check out Hushmat....Made in America for over 20yrs (keep jobs HERE), great adhesive, doesn't cut your hands, no heat gun, and very flexible....great price!! You can buy it directly from their website!!!!
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


Dynamat
Raammat
edead
Damplifier
Damplifier Pro

All made in the USA also.
Hushmat however, has only been around for about 8 years.
The company that makes hushmat however has been around for a good deal more. Do not confuse the two though. They are very different companies that are currently at odds with one another.

(BTW, the company that makes the CLD that RMD buys and calls "Hushmat", also has a manufacturing plan overseas and imports product here to save money.) 

ANT


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## Phreaxer

I love it when people say things they shouldn't and then get correctly publically.


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## Fricasseekid

DIYMA said:


> Dynamat
> Raammat
> edead
> Damplifier
> Damplifier Pro
> 
> All made in the USA also.
> Hushmat however, has only been around for about 8 years.
> The company that makes hushmat however has been around for a good deal more. Do not confuse the two though. They are very different companies that are currently at odds with one another.
> 
> (BTW, the company that makes the CLD that RMD buys and calls "Hushmat", also has a manufacturing plan overseas and imports product here to save money.)
> 
> ANT


Now that's informative! Someone boost this man's rep.... Lol


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## Southnash

I've used Dynamat & Damplifier Pro before. Both are great products, but they seem to be very stiff. Worked great on large flat surface's (Damplifier Pro x10 better) but when it came to the door it was tough to contour to the crazy door skin. I used Hushmat on my last car & it installed ALOT easier & not cut hands....worked just as good!!

Any company that keeps jobs here are a higher level in my book! I don't have time to DIY my own material when these companies already did the hard work for me...


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## Southnash

I was corrected & guess you can't believe everything you read on forums  

I was wrong, thanks for the update......

So who uses 100% MATERIALS & 100% MANUFACTURED from the USA? 
Just curious...


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## Second Skin Rep Jon

FYI, the stiffness of the constraining layer (i.e. foil) is relevant to the performance capabilities of the product.

In a perfect world, you'd have a foil the same thickness as the substrate that you're trying to control the vibrations of.


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## Southnash

ok, but doesn't it have to touch the substrate to work?

What about my crazy door skin?? It was TOUGH to install & some parts were hopeless using the thick stuff....I had to go MMA on it!!


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## Second Skin Rep Jon

Yes you need some sort of damping layer between the substrate and the constraining layer. This is where all of your viscoelastic polymers and butyl mixes come into play. Finding the perfect balance between stiffness, density, adhesion, etc., etc..

Installing the CLDs that have the stiffer foil may be more difficult, but it's worth it in the end.


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## Southnash

So at what point does the thickness not matter because it does not contour well? 

Then I find the balance between a bloody mess (thick foil) and ease of installation which the hushmat seemed to work just as good.(atleast my hands told me that, then ears agreed)


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## Second Skin Rep Jon

Personally I've never had any issues pressing any CLD product into shape. I use my hands to press and form it, not a roller. But again that might just be me.

Around 20 mils is when the foil starts to get a little to stiff for my liking and hinders installation.

Very few CLDs are out there with foils thicker than 8mils so installation for most of these should still be relatively easy. Right off the top of my head I can only think of two products that do have foils thicker than 8mils...


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## Lou

vtec97 said:


> Ok I've been hunting a cheap alternative to dynamat, raamat and all the other high priced sound deadening mats. Ok so if 2 1'x1' autozone brand cost 20 bucks ima take a guess and say dyna would cost 40 (never priced it like I said, I'm cheap). Enter the 7 dollar (ballpark figure) 20"x35"(close estimate) replacement. Sorry no pics but this aint rocket science. What u need: a Dollar General, a car, a 3 dollar rubber welcome mat from thAt DG, and while ur there grab a box of heavy duty aluminum foil, spray adhesive, and either liquid nails or contact adhesive. Hmmmmm all the sudden its coming together aint it? Well the sray adhesive is for the foil which I feel u nee to quadruple to 4 layers. Then, glure that to the rubber. Wow looks like something u would pay a lot more for don't it? Even a little thicker. Then use the nails(use little screws to hold it till it dries) or contact cement and go to town on ur doors. Trust me it works.


sorry but I had to laugh,are you for real?if you are gonna make a post such as this you better post some visual results,your idea to me sounds like you have been up for a few days and dont know what to do,


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## Fus1on

Very entertaining thread ....Subscribed in case some more funny stuff is posted. :-D

Post a picture of this rubber mat


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## sandfleee

when I saw the title, I assumed this would be another post regarding someone finding/using another asphalt based roofing material they found cheap... although I will admit when I ran out of bxt2 when I put 8's in my doors, and used Peel n seal from Lowes. Not asphalt based, very similar aluminized facer, adhered well. It wasnt as "thick" as the BXT2 I used everywhere else...but for the price it was perfect for the small areas in the doors I was reworking..

Me personally, being as lazy as I am, if I couldnt afford to deaden using a reputable product, I would use the peel n seal before I'd start glueing and making my own...in the end I just cant see anything "home made" being any more cost effective...


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## Fricasseekid

http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/fab...diy-vibration-damper-cld-tiles-real-time.html


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

I'm late to the party, poo .... Donno where the OP went, but this has gone down as likely the most retarded post I've seen in a year.... 

cheap DIY... yeah, I've seen people put home A/C units in cars before too, doesn't mean it's a good idea...


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## shnitz

Wow, you guys resurrect a thread that has been dead for 3 weeks, just to bash the OP for the first post in the thread? We've moved past that; look at the other 2+ pages worth of discussion.


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## veritasz34

Well I personally used and was sponsored by B-Quiet..Their product was really easy to use and did a great job..One more thing that can be used is rubber mold compound that is used to make concrete molds. This stuff can be poured into the floor boards and make it dead..Plus you can remove it (If you prepped it right..It's self leveling so it will work only on flat surfaces..Unledd you can tilt the car..


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## mrbukol

is that true?


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