# My MAZDASPEED3's Stealth Install



## Lanson

[3rd post]

Hi all, I'm working on designing a clean, stealth install in my new car. I'm going to document the process to gain insight and opinions from you, the knowledgeable group of people I have learned to listen to. The system is a work-in-progress, and as such, it will change drastically as I go. Your ideas, solutions, and knowledge are more then welcome in this post! Criticism, notes, and complaints are all welcome, provided they are constructive. I have thick skin, so don't worry 'bout my feelings, and just say whats on your mind, OK?

That said, let me lay down the foundation of this project:
The car is a fairly rare one! The MAZDASPEED version of the Mazda 3 hatchback is unique in that it is a factory high-boost turbocharged car. 5000 total are slated for production. It is not a race car, but it can be raced, road course style, with little to no mods in the suspension. Much like the STi's and Evo's of this world. The car, like the STi Limited Edition, is a wolf in sheep's clothing, with 263HP and 280 lbs/ft of TQ. It has a unique interior, suspension, wheels, and body panels. With this in mind, I have chosen a stealth install, to keep the car under the radar, so to speak. This is my daily driver, so maintaining the utility of a hatchback car is one of the most important parts of this install, which means no amps mounted on the backseat, and no sub box taking up the whole trunk.

The system goals are simple - produce fantastic SQ performance with a nice SPL potential, all the while maintaining a stock-like look wherever prying eyes would dare to. This means that the stock HU will remain, so long as it doesn't affect the audio performance negatively. Time will tell if the stock HU has the ability to play cleanly to a set of LOC's, but I hope so! The dash is very integrated, and the steering wheel has audio controls. Notably, this car has one of those LCD panels located in the middle of the dash that provides readouts on the audio, A/C, and ambient temp. This means that removal of the stock HU would disable some of the display. 

The other important part of this install is that I must utilize the factory locations of the speakers, which means no kickpods. The sail panels are where I plan to install the tweeters of a good set of comps (or active-fed separates), simply because buying a plastic sail panel replacement is easy. However, doors panels are not, so they will stay as stock as possible. That in mind, I'm open to any and all ideas, as I mentioned above.

The equipment that I've picked out thus far (and this list evolves constantly)

Audio Control Crossover (haven't picked a model yet), mounted in the glove box's cavernous storage space, making the factory HU's line outputs RCA's. Mounted in the G.B. to accomplish a close wiring connection from the HU's output wires, and to make minute adjustments in the crossovers and/or gains from the passenger seat. 

Pioneer Premier components, Eclipse SC8264 comps, or DIY it w/ a nice, clean off-axis capable tweeter and 6.5" midrange.

Rears installed just for the hell of it, and to appease my passengers who will cram in the car, occasionally. (Please don't tell me to ditch the rears, this will be the first car I've owned that is a 4 door, and thus the first one that I've installed performance audio in the rear on, so while I do agree it does nothing for SQ performance, I just want to keep the passengers comfortable, k? K. I promise to leave them off when there are no passengers behind me. Pinky swear.  )

Subwoofer will be either the almighty linear motor SW8000 or its lil bro, the SW7000. Runners up were Diamond's D6, Polk's SR, and the Adire Brahma. According to WinISD, the SW8000 trumps them all, and reviews seem to show that the LMT woofers do put up amazing performance in both SQ and SPL. Since I have room for only one sub, and a 10" at that, might as well be one of the most cutting edge subs out there, eh?

Amps...ah yes, its been an internal battle to pick the perfect set. After much deliberation, I decided (so far) that the Eclipse XA4000 and XA1000 would be a nice combo. Why? Because their ICEpower technology (from the B&O boys) would leave my alternator happier, and the size and power of these guys, along with their ability to stay cool, all meet my needs. Runners up were Audison, Diamond, JBL, and Polk.

Wiring will be KnuKonceptz, because everyone I know who's used them likes them, and the prices are great.

Sound deadener will be B-Quiet, or Raammat, can't decide which.

Anyway, on with the show!

Here are a few pics of the beginning, and as time goes on, and my budget increases for this project, you'll see equipment starting to make its way in the car. Reply away!


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## coffee_junkee

Mmm Speed3. Nice ride.

I'm also digging the blueprint picture above. Looks like a great start!


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## rekd0514

Ya, I just heard about those cars the other day. I want one for that engine alone. haha The car looks awesome. I wonder if it is a lot quicker than the Mazdaspeed6? I saw the times it ran for what it was and it didn't seem that impressive. I guess it was too heavy.


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## HIS4

If you haven't already bought your sailpanels, I would seriously look into doing kickpanels. Replacement stock kick panels are fairly cheap. I bought replacements for my car for about $30 each. Then you can hack up the ones how have however you want and then when you're ready to go back to stock just install the new ones you bought. It would be a considerable upgrade as far as SQ goes.


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## chuyler1

If you put black grill cloth on the grills, kickpanel enclosures are pretty much invisible to the prying eye. Only someone who knew what to look for would find them...and the type of people who know what to look for aren't the type to be wandering around the mall parking lot. ...and if someone were to break into your car...it wouldn't be to steal the speakers...it would be to steal the car. So get an alarm system and do what you want with the stereo system.

But anyway, if the Mazda3 kicks are anything like the Protege kicks, there isn't much space down there to work with anyway. You would still be putting midbass drivers in the doors and maybe 3" or 4" drivers in the kicks with tweeters also in the kicks or up high in the sail panels.


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## HIS4

Yup. Get an alarm and tint your windows so the casual passerby can't easily see what's in there. With tinted windows, someone would at least need to stand there and take a good look to know what's there. Like chuyler1 said, if you match the kick panel and grill color with the floor color, it will be really hard to notice that something is even there.


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## BodegaBay

fourthmeal,

Great buy. If you don't mind me asking, were you able to negotiate on the price since it's such a high demand car, and does the factory torque control management software work in real world applications?


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## Soundsaround

Phenomenal car, Congrats! 
That's the first car that I've considered as a replacement for my MX6. Mine's 11 years old and runs like top, very little maintenence required. I'm sure yours will be equally reliable, and even more fun. Lotsa Mazda owners here...the Bang for your Buck suits the DIY mentality I think.


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## Mazda3SQ

Awesome car, I'm jealous. I've got a sedan myself, been toying with it for about 3 years now so let me know if there is anything I might be able to help you with or any questions you might have. Congrads on a badass ride.


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## Lanson

rekd0514 sez:


> Ya, I just heard about those cars the other day. I want one for that engine alone. haha The car looks awesome. I wonder if it is a lot quicker than the Mazdaspeed6? I saw the times it ran for what it was and it didn't seem that impressive. I guess it was too heavy.


The car is using the same engine as the Speed6 of course, but being FWD only, it is _different_, to say the least. It is fast though, for stock. Runs mid to low 13's at over 100mph in the trap. The "times" it does best in though is roadcourse work.

HIS4 sez:


> If you haven't already bought your sailpanels, I would seriously look into doing kickpanels. Replacement stock kick panels are fairly cheap. I bought replacements for my car for about $30 each. Then you can hack up the ones how have however you want and then when you're ready to go back to stock just install the new ones you bought. It would be a considerable upgrade as far as SQ goes.


No space for kicks to go! The stock footrest is staying put, and because I'm a lanky, tall guy, I need the room. The doors are the home of the mid-bass/midrange, and the sail panels are where the tweets will go. I haven't bought sailpanels, but I mentioned that they are cheap, because when I go to sell this car someday, I can buy the little replacement pieces cheaply. I agree, SQ might be improved by doing kicks, but I'll have to find another way to compensate.

Bodega Bay sez:


> fourthmeal,
> 
> Great buy. If you don't mind me asking, were you able to negotiate on the price since it's such a high demand car, and does the factory torque control management software work in real world applications?


I traded my 06 Honda Interceptor motorcycle in on it, and I got a decent deal on the trade, and the car. I think it would average out to be about 1,000 under MSRP. And, they aren't as RARE here in Vegas as far as dealerships go, but for the record, I've not run into another one here in Vegas yet! The torque management combined with the equal-length driveshaft setup works well! I do get wicked wheelspin in first and second if I butcher the throttle, but otherwise its tame. 3rd and 4th gear are crazy fun on the highway though. 

Thanks all for the compliments! Now, help a brother out with what to do with this car! I'm thinking I'm on the right track w/ the PRS 720's and their indoor performance combined w/ their off axis performance. The amps from Eclipse seem worthy, and the sub (as shown by its WinISD plot) looks CRAZY low capable before the -3dB point. whatcha think?


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## HIS4

fourthmeal said:


> rekd0514 sez:
> 
> No space for kicks to go! The stock footrest is staying put, and because I'm a lanky, tall guy, I need the room. The doors are the home of the mid-bass/midrange, and the sail panels are where the tweets will go. I haven't bought sailpanels, but I mentioned that they are cheap, because when I go to sell this car someday, I can buy the little replacement pieces cheaply. I agree, SQ might be improved by doing kicks, but I'll have to find another way to compensate.


Oh, I forgot to mention, I'm only putting the tweeters in the kick panels. My mids are staying in the doors too. That helps with your leg space problem which I have too. Not because I'm tall but because I would just hate to have something protruding out into the foot well area. By putting only the tweeter there, you don't have to make the panel protrude out into the leg space and it's much easier to blend a tweeter into the panel then trying to do a mid. The tweeter is still in close proximity to the mid in this configuration so you'll still benefit from reduced PLDs. 

I haven't actually done it yet since I'm still trying to decide on a mid & tweeter combo. I have considered the Morel Supremo 5 set and Seas Excel W15LY mids with Hiquphon OW1-fs tweeters. The large format tweeter causes a problem because making a grill for it can be difficult while trying to blend it into the stock panel.

Good luck with your install.


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## Lanson

So here's what I'm dealing with if we're talking kickpanels. I'm all for trying it, but honestly, there isn't much space width-wise. I am going to draft up some possibilities though. I could always do a small 3" midrange and then a nice tweeter, then install a beefy midbass in the door. I know its not DIY, but I really like the Eclipse SC 3 way series, but I was all about the 2 ways because of fear of the kick (panel) 

Material wise, those kicks are textured plastic, something a black vinyl or a clear coated texture paint might match. Also, I wouldn't be afraid to use low-pile carpet to match the floor. Its a nice BLACK.

I'll edit this later or post up a little sketch of some ideas, if I come up w/ any. 










[


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## npdang

I just picked up a RF 3sixty.2 processor. Highly recommend. If your hu is typical of those in new cars today, it has a good amount of built in processing that will need to be corrected before you can install an aftermarket stereo. Otherwise there could be serious frequency response issues that could limit the sound quality of your setup.

You also have very nice doors. I would take full advantage and try a good driver such as the Seas RNX series or Peerless exclusive. You may also want to check out this thread for an affordable, yet very high quality tweeter with superb top end dispersion http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7774&highlight=pacparts

Although I am quite impressed with the LMT drivers, I'm not completely sold. I honestly think that you can't really do better than a JL 10w7. It's solidly built, very low mechanical noise, and very good unit to unit consistency. Although I haven't had any experience with the TC LMT drivers, you can read my review on the LMT Eclipse sw8200 int he review forum.


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## vactor

man, that is plenty of space for a 6 and tweeter in the kicks. especially once u see how much space is probably behind the plastic trim panel. i'm sure a little bit of work getting them in there (or, a 3 way 4 and tweet or midrange and tweet in the kicks and bass in the doors) will give you soooo much more than any other mounting scheme.


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## DaveRulz

Man I love those cars. 

In any case, since you are keeping the stock head unit, and from all the information I have gathered, it has the same head units as the 6, I'll try and spread a little bit of information. 

I don't know if there are bose and non-bose units in those cars. If it is bose, it will have preamp outputs that can easily be tapped into and are ruler flat for frequency response. If it is a non-bose system, and the deck is supplying power, there are volume dependant adjustments that the HU makes to the frequency response. I.e. it rolls the bass off at higher volumes. It's not too bad, but you'll only want to use the front channels if you are using a LOC. See this thread.

http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=36328

A thread has just surfaced on 6 club that explains how to bypass the internal amplifier that I believe eliminates this. Here's the link. http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=66591

Hope this is helpful!

Dave


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## chuyler1

I say stick with a DIY 2-way setup. Use a 6.5" driver in the doors with plenty of sound deadening. Use a compact tweeter in the sail panels (the largest you can fit). Run the speakers active so you can experiment with different crossover points and you'll have better control over tweeter volume.

I know you're all gung-ho about the rear speakers but I think if you leave them stock, powered off the head unit, that will be enough for the rear passengers. No one who has demo'd my Protege5 from the back seat has complained that there wasn't enough mid or highs. The bass from the trunk makes it to the front of the car without trouble...why wouldn't the treble make it to the back seat?

So if you don't power rears off the amp, that leaves you with all 4-channels to run active up front. This will result in a much cleaner and easier to configure sound.


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## shinjohn

chuyler1 said:


> I say stick with a DIY 2-way setup. Use a 6.5" driver in the doors with plenty of sound deadening. Use a compact tweeter in the sail panels (the largest you can fit). Run the speakers active so you can experiment with different crossover points and you'll have better control over tweeter volume.
> 
> I know you're all gung-ho about the rear speakers but I think if you leave them stock, powered off the head unit, that will be enough for the rear passengers. No one who has demo'd my Protege5 from the back seat has complained that there wasn't enough mid or highs. The bass from the trunk makes it to the front of the car without trouble...why wouldn't the treble make it to the back seat?
> 
> So if you don't power rears off the amp, that leaves you with all 4-channels to run active up front. This will result in a much cleaner and easier to configure sound.


Totally agree here and also with npdang.
Using the stock head isn't a bad option, esp. since kits for all the new Mazdas aren't readily available (I'm not sure about the 3). If you go this route having the right interface is critical, and though I don't have personal experience with the RF or the JL (Cleansweep), they both seem to be good choices for this. I think if you are looking for simplicity, I agree you should really try the factory locations first, and experiment from there. The Pioneer PRS comps may be a good way to start off and ease into things, because you could use the passive at first, and save $ and installation difficulties by keeping it simple. You can then just add on over time, spreading out the expense and installation burden. For instance: get the interface, your main amp, comps, and a sub first. Deaden and get that all installed and you'll have a really nice, basic system. After that, get another amp, move to fully active, try other tweeter locations, get new front stage components to swap out (which is likely to happen if you continue hanging around here), etc...

I guess I'm just saying that your dream system doesn't have to be built in a day. Rome sure wasn't. Start with your system soon, because if you don't, you'll be caught in the endless trap of equipment decision paralysis, which I've seen alot here!!!  Note this condition also leads to the inevitable "chronic equipment switch out" condition too, rendering your car only half useful with missing trim, seats, and other associated hardware. 

GL.


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## vwtoby

haha..

"endless trap of equipment decision paralysis, which I've seen alot here!!! Note this condition also leads to the inevitable "chronic equipment switch out" condition too, rendering your car only half useful with missing trim, seats, and other associated hardware."

that is priceless as soo true


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## solipsism

Heya fourthmeal. I just signed up here to post on this thread, and of course post more in the future. Anyway I am also a Mazdaspeed3 owner from Canada.

I will be following your progress in tune with what I am doing. I have not installed Car Audio systems in the past, although I am familar with Home stuff. I was planning on doing the system myself, but I want one sooner then later and with no access to garage in town (the city in which i live is very crowded) to do the work myself I may have to get it professionally done by a fairly well-regarded installer out of town. There are 3 shops in town but I am not too keen on using them.

Im going for a system with moderate to high SQ with a little room for SPL. 

Just to bounce my ideas off you without trying to jack your thread Ill say that my preliminary choices are the Dynaudio MkII242 Comps. Zapco DC1100 and DC350.2 digital amplifiers. Perhaps the Polk SR's (2 10"). 

I was thinking of using a Alpine IVA-D310 for the head unit, but I am at a crossroads in regards to that decision. As you have decided to keep your Headunit for cosmetic purposes this may not be an issue. 

In canada the MS3 comes standard with the Bose unit and Auto-Climate control, which makes use of the HU display. This seems like it may be a huge pain to keep the use of the display while removing the Bose headunit. Without the display the Autoclimate control is uselss btw. 


Congrats on the new car.


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## chuyler1

vwtoby said:


> haha..
> 
> "endless trap of equipment decision paralysis, which I've seen alot here!!! Note this condition also leads to the inevitable "chronic equipment switch out" condition too, rendering your car only half useful with missing trim, seats, and other associated hardware."
> 
> that is priceless as soo true


This is why I say skip the B.S. and go straight to an active setup.


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## Lanson

Thanks for the replies! I considered the 3-way options for quite a while last night, and I drew up some possible ways to pull it off. One way is to sacrifice the plastic kicks that are stock, by cutting a hole in the panel (say for a 3" DIY Dayton or SEAS, and a 1" for a proper VIFA or SEAS tweet), angling them and then using pvc to make a small sono-tube like structure behind the kick. It would be stealth as hell, and not steal any space for my feet. HOWEVER, I think its overkill. I'm convinced that Chuyler's idea of sticking w/ the stock placements, THEN going all out. I'd probably do it with fresh new kick plastics from Mazda, because then I could work on them whilst leaving my car alone. 

Driver wise, then, I'm going with the biggest midbass-midrange I can put in the door, and according to my measurements that places the Dayton 7" RS180 on the top of my list. Upon simulating the differences in response between the Dayton, SEAS, and Pioneer Premier PRS woofers, I found the Pioneer and Dayton had similar curves, and the SEAS had a slightly weaker bottom end (anechoic, oversized sealed sealed/near infinite baffle enclosure size), which makes the Pioneer possibly at least comparable to the Dayton. 

Tweeter wise, I'll get back to you on that...


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## chuyler1

The only downside to using a larger (greater than 6.5") driver is that you will be mating it to a relatively small tweeter. Many of the people using the RS180 on this board have large format tweeters (which probably won't fit in your sail panel) or 3-way setups. A quick search of this forum shows that the RS180 is good for about 2KHz and the RS150 is good for about 3.2KHz.


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## Whiterabbit

is anyone else wondering if the black part is an insert that is totally removable for purposes of deadeneing the outer skin and potentially replacing with a massive MDF or alternate material panel.... allowing for the construction of a stealth baffle with an excessively large diameter cutout?


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## rekd0514

Whiterabbit said:


> is anyone else wondering if the black part is an insert that is totally removable for purposes of deadeneing the outer skin and potentially replacing with a massive MDF or alternate material panel.... allowing for the construction of a stealth baffle with an excessively large diameter cutout?


Ya he has the right idea. haha Huge potential here!


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## Lanson

It is a very thick piece of composite plastic that houses things like the motor. However, I'm sure you could work something out!

I'm thinking the Premier comps run in active would be the best to start. That way i've got the size speaker I want (6.5"), and a matching tweeter. I've heard these drivers work well off axis, and thats exactly where I'll be. Now, to find out how to get decent wire in the door, without destroying or cutting anything metal...


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## chuyler1

This how-to is for a Protege but the steps are pretty much universal. You might as well run two sets of wire while you are doing it so you can run active (or mount the crossovers somewhere else) in the future.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90091&highlight=door+speaker+wire


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## Lanson

right on, good idea there Chuyler. I didn't know this car used some sort of connection at the door. I'm more used to the older, grommet style setup. With those, I'd slit the grommet, and install some wire through the existing hole, and hope that it would be big enough. You may or may not be able to tell from the pics, but if you notice from where the wires that go to the door pass through the accordion rubber tube (at the far left-center of the picture), you'll notice that no wires actually pass through the door! This car doesn't do it like others, so I've found. We'll see what this really means to the design.

I have never, ever installed a crossover in the door before, for fear of water penetrating what I feel to be one very fragile piece of passive equipment. So, yes, running two sets of wire will be critical. When I get some time, I'm going to more closely look at how the wires are run on a "3", and take pics of the progress. I have some Liberty wire I use in home theater installs, which is 12 gauge high strand copper, w/ 4 conductors, wrapped in a durable sheath. It has stood the test of time w/ virtually all my installs that didn't have upsold speaker wire, and it works great in ceilings. So, while I'm in the door, inspecting, I may end up pre-wiring.

OH, and awesome research on what the guys are doing on the Mazda 6's head unit! I love the idea of converting the stock HU to do my bidding. That just rocks. And honestly, the idea of messing the board up doesn't scare me much. At the very least, the newfound knowledge about the frequency response issues of the rear speaker leads helps a lot w/ just a set of RCA LOC's. Thanks for the hookup on the knowledge.


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## DaveRulz

exactly the same process, but this tutorial is specific to the mazda3

http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?TID=78731&PN=1


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## Lanson

THANKS! Thats pretty cool how the Molex connector can be manipulated like that. I'll explore the doors tonight, and see what fits.

I was thinking of a DIY setup using the Aluminum cone SEAS woofer, and the Vifa D26NC55 soft textile 1" dome tweeter, run active with some sort of crossover. The (aluminum) version of the SEAS appeals to me because the door will see a lot of water, so the paper version is OUT. The Poly version isn't a sound I enjoy, so Aluminum it is. I was thinking at first about the Dayton, but I doubt it would play very well in the crossover region of 1.8-2.0K at L4. The NC55 tweeter seems the best for me because I prefer a soft but clear top end, with no harshness whatsoever. This tweeter is the smoothest by most people's ears. The unique size should fit the sail panel w/ minimal cutting, and the rectanglular shape should sneak in the space of the sail easier then a big circle. The off-axis response of this tweeter should be perfect for the application too. Anybody use this combo? And what is the ideal crossover for this setup? Active, naturally.


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## dawgdan

Nice ride! I'd love one of those, but having a paid-off car at the moment ROCKS! 

You may not get door moisture as bad as you'd think. OEM speakers are almost all paper cones - water damage is pretty much unheard of. Our cars have a decent rain shield that can be modified fairly easily to fit even my 7" speaker. Check out chuyler1's tutorial to see how you can remove it and install it on the aftermarket speaker.

Also, as per npdang's suggestion, the RF 3sixty.2 is pretty much the ultimate processor for factory head units. WinXP software will be coming soon, so you can use it with Windows Mobile, WinXP, or Palm OS.


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## Lanson

Ok, I spent some quality time doing a few things on the car. Here are very detailed shots of the sail panel, and what I have to work with.

















































Looks like thanks to a connector for the mirrors, there is very, VERY little space for a quality tweeter. This rules out a lot of options! I still think a Vifa NC55 would fit, as would the Premier PRS tweets (from the component set, not the standalone.) For comparison, I grabbed a spare tweeter from a junked set of Diamond Audio D6's I had, and the tweeter's shell diameter is the same as the perceived outside diameter of the sail panel's tweeter location. HOWEVER, thanks to the fact that the actual tweeter is 1/2 that big (as shown by the holes through the sail panel, making up the grille), actually installing a tweeter in from behind will involve some serious modification (destruction) of the sail panel. Hopefully, the tweeter's front flushmount bezel will hide the mess I'll have to create to get anything in there.


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## Lanson

Ok, after doing the tweeter measurements, I felt bold, so I started breaking into the doors again to pre-wire for components. This, as it turned out, was easily one of the most difficult, most trying, and frankly a PAIN IN THE ASS jobs I've ever done. Why? Because, the Molex connector got lodged in the door, halfway disconnected, making the connector too large to fit through! As I was pulling the connector out, I must have pushed on one of the disconnect tabs, so the blue swinging lock was 1/4 unlocked. This made the connector oversized for the door, but of course, because I couldn't see this (the damn thing was inside the door like that), I had no idea. Only when I managed to wring the thing out of my door did I realize what happened. SONOFABITCH! I ended up shoving my hand through the inside of the car, convoluting it until I had a hold of the other side, then flipped the blue lock fully off, and pulled the connector apart. After that, I closed the lock, and pulled the thing through the door. I sincerely hope the passenger side goes easier then this!

Another problem came up while working on this part. I had no open places to drill except the outside. My solution is best explained in pics. So, here you go. You'll notice the metal deformation at the opening. It is magnified by the camera, and for the record, I smoothed it back out w/ a small covered hammer. I'm glad it was covered up by the rubber grommet through! After all the sweat and tears (no blood, but it was close), the finished product is a working solution, and no visible damage occured except two small marr marks where the pry tool hit the paint. Oh well!

Here is the driver's door side, untouched.









Here, after about an hour of frustrating, hellish ********, is the slightly worse for wear Molex connector. Still perfectly functional, but struck w/ the ugly stick a few times. This is it in a "lock" position









Here is the connector in "unlock" position. Note the approx. 1/8" notch in the blue part, right by my fingertip. This is where the other side slides in w/ plastic pin tabs. When the blue part is flipped to "lock, the tabs are captured.









I'm not proud of this pic, but I'm not too ashamed to show my f-ups. I was AMAZED that the damage looked that bad on the camera shot though! In reality, it was minor. Especially after hitting it back w/ a hammer.









There are a lot of wires on this connector! In fact, there are no open spots to drill through. Gotta go another way w/ the wire on this car.









Another shot of that connector.









Here is the other side of the Molex. 









I ended up drilling a hole in the shell of the connector, as you can see in the pic. I also mis-drilled above, as you can also see. Whoops.









Holy **** it worked! This is a very thick cable to fit through here. It is 4 conductor 16 gauge, with a super tough outer sheath. Good thing, too, because it gets a lot of stress and pressure during this install work! I also had to (carefully!) notch the plastic under the wire, because the little blue swinging lock got in the way. I managed to get this to work though. You'll see...


















It worked! It took a lot of pressure to get the blue lock to open enough to accept the other side of the Molex, but the little notch worked. In hindsight, I think I'd do it another way, but honestly I looked at it for quite a while! Make sure to use a very strong, and yet very small sheathed wire if you are following in my footsteps. YMMV!









Almost done! (With one side, anyway!)









This pic illustrates the issue I had with the blue lock. See, it fits just fine locked like you see here, but unlocked, it BLOCKS the wire's path. 

















Just before I ran the wires into the car interior.









Ta Da! Wire is run for the driver's side! I was going to do the passenger side as well, but I was so pooped from doing this one that I decided one was enough for now.









I didn't take pics of it, but I ran this wire down the left rail, just under the carpet and plastics I'll likely run the power wire down the left center, and the signal rca's down the right center. This car, like most new ones, is taken apart and put together w/ very little effort, and even less screws. Mostly like a snap together model car or something! 

I hope this helps some people out there! It was a PITA, but hopefully the results will be worth it.


The wire I used, if you were curious, is 16 gauge 4 conductor Liberty contractor wire. It has a nice quality stranded copper content, and is durable and pretty small. When I was digging through my wire stash, I had the option of using Monster Cable Z1 (the thickness of your thumb), Monster HPCL four conductor, Liberty 16 gauge 4 conductor, Liberty 14 gauge 4 conductor, and Streetwires Esoteric 14 gauge. After looking at the available space in the connector though, I was immediately stuck w/ what I picked.


----------



## chuyler1

I don't see any blood on those fingers...couldn't have been that bad  I usually end up with at least one bloody knuckle.


----------



## Lanson

The extent of my damage came from cut up cuticles. I've gotten used to being cut up, so in a way, this car is gentle.


----------



## FoxPro5

Totally hear that. Pulling wire is quite the bloody PITA!! You totally got lucky on that 3 door though. The Pro5 has some nice access holes to the skin, but nothing like that. 

So are you totally set on the sail panel install? I used that spot in mine for a while...but they eventually made it to the A pillar.


----------



## Lanson

Sail panel has to be the way to go, because the A-pillars are AIRBAGS. I don't wanna screw w/ that.


----------



## solipsism

Actually from some debating on www.mazda3forums.com the A-Pillars may not contain the airbags, they may just have the SRS logo present. There is a an ongoing debate as to whether or not they come from just under the a-pillar, above the a-pillar or the a-pillar. Just thought i would let you know.

I am holding off on installinga 3-gauge podset on my a-pillar for this reason.


----------



## HIS4

fourthmeal said:


> Sail panel has to be the way to go, because the A-pillars are AIRBAGS. I don't wanna screw w/ that.


This debate was done in the Audi forums over 5 years ago when people were thinking about doing gauge pods on the a-pillars. The result is that the pillar does not actually get thrown across the cabin when the airbag deploys. It peels away from the top down but stays connected at the bottom. It does not turn your pods into projectiles. I would assume that even if there was an airbag there in your case, you should be fine. 

Here's a link to the post with the picture of the deployed airbag. You can see that the A pillar is still in tact.

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/2224364.phtml

I have a boost gauge mounted on my A pillar and don't worry about it. Here's a link to a post I made when I installed my boost gauge.

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1525789.phtml


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

I did an install in a Mazda 3 sometime ago, it one of the best sounding cars I have ever built. The rear roof wing rattles like crazy. If you like I should have some build pictures around.

Here are some pictures of the install.


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## tyroneshoes

beautiful install


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## Lanson

goodbye trunk usability!

Looks awesome for show though. I like the kicks. I'll be using a single LMT Eclipse 10", with most of the enclosure underneath the factory floor carpet panel, and the amps will hide there too. That way the factory folding seats will still be able to function. 

The beautiful trim piece in place of the factory's readout above the double din,...what does it say? 

All in all, a beautiful show car.

And please, do show all the pics you can of the buildup (any help is useful) or make a new thread and link me to it. Thanks!






Oh, and last night, I finished the right side wiring, made my first perfect circle using a router (with a homemade circle maker attachment, worked fantastic), and trimmed down the hidden fiberglass box shape so. Next I will strengthen it w/ some wood bracing, and start f-glassing the top form.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

fourthmeal said:


> goodbye trunk usability!
> 
> The beautiful trim piece in place of the factory's readout above the double din,...what does it say?


Its say A3, A4, A6, P9 which are the DLS amps used in the system and the DEQ-P9. When the head unit comes on all the lettering lights up in amber like the dash lights and if a fuse blows the light behind its lettering goes out.


----------



## Lanson

sweet.

This particular car has climate control, ambient temps, and the clock all showing on the readout. I don't want to lose this feature. W/ the factory deck modded to produce a clear, unaltered RCA signal (no unnatural FR curves from response killing capacitors), I should be able to run a clean signal to whatever amps I hide back there.

Actually, amps and how to deal w/ crossovers are the only thing I've not figured out yet!

An LMT Eclipse 10" sub, Pioneer PRS 720 components, and some sort of Audiocontrol crossover/eq is planned so far. Amps are still going to be an issue, since I want something that is efficient, small, powerful, but inexpensive. JBL, Pioneer PRS, Soundstream Tarantula, and perhaps a last year's PPI (since I had them before, and loved them), out of those I'm stumped.

Oh well, I'm off to go work on the enclosure a bit more, I'll post up whats gettin done as its happening. Later, and thanks for all the ideas guys! Its making my task a bit more fun.


----------



## Lanson

Ahh...a couple days off, and a bit more progress!

First off, thanks to all who are following along, and providing useful links, ideas, and whatnot. It is truly helping!

First off in the pics, here is what not to do! This is a mistake from mixing resin too hot. I'm sure we have all done this at one time or another. Here is my blob o' resin. This one got hot, but thankfully not smoking or on fire.









Next, here are a few shots of the progress on the sub box. This sucker is taking time, but if its going to hold a killer sub such as the LMT Eclipse, I best be overbuilding it, right?









































I can't quite reach too far and still hold my camera, but here is an idea of what it'll be in the end. BTW, that ring is my very first attempt at making a circle with my new router! I was very, very impressed. I made my own circle maker out of 1/4" MDF, some careful measurements from the bit to a hole in the template, and voila, a ring.

















I've decided to mount the sub normally, which will require that the box has about 7" of clearance vertically, to fit the massive sub's motor structure. The thing I am most worried about right now is whether or not I'll have enough airspace. 

A few ideas I have to combat the potential airspace issue...
- EQ the hell out of the sub
- use a ton of polyfill,
- live with a little extra boom
- exchange the LMT sub for something that is less space hungry
- Find more available airspace, like 4" PVC tubing or something.

I still need to measure the final product's airspace. I'm not 100% certain how I'm going to do this, but I was thinking of buying foam peanuts, pouring tons of them in the finished product until it was competely full; then taking those peanuts out measuring how many cubic feet of them it took to fill. The geometry is too complicated for an easy airspace measurement, otherwise.


----------



## evan

Have you seen this install yet?

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7711

Not sure if it would help, but your project made me think of it.


----------



## Lanson

Yes, I did see that one. I got a few ideas from it, but I didn't have the luxury of a tub-mold already in my car. There wasn't much to start with. However, other then the amplifier being in the spare tire area, and my need for a much thicker subwoofer then the slim 10's he chose, I am running a similar plan. I was actually going to go w/ some eD equipment, but Chuyler1 on here and a few others pointed me away from the brand, and so I had to change up my design to fit a larger sub. 

Its coming along though, I checked on the box as it was curing just a little while ago, and it is hard as a rock, and not too heavy at all. I wanted to add less then 100lbs total to the car from sound dampener, speakers, sub, amps, wood, fiberglass...all of it. So far, I'm only in the 5-10 lbs range. I'm keeping track.


----------



## Lanson

Ahh, another day off, another couple of hours to work on this project!

Updated pics of progress:


























I've run into a problem with airspace, I think. The sub I wanted to use is the Eclipse SW8000, primarily because it is an LMT subwoofer, something I find a great feature. The problem with this sub is that it requires a lot of airspace, which is something I think I'll not have enough of. So, right now I'm playing with quality alternatives (feel free to suggest some, the DIYMA12 is on the list) that will play as low as the LMT, with low distortion and a clean, crisp sound. I'm off to measure just how much airspace I've ended up with, at which time I'll report what I've found. 

Measuring such unique shapes is proving to be difficult without buying a large amount of foam peanuts to pour in, and compare cu. ft. I'm going to try it w/ geometry first, and let you know how it goes. I have no use for foam packing peanuts other then this measurement, so I'd rather not buy them just for that.


----------



## Lanson

After measuring using geometry and a little eyeballing, I'd say this box is about .85-.9 cu. ft large, if I put a flat sheet of wood right on top of it. With a small amount of lift at the top (using the fleece around a hot-glued strutted sub ring method, I'll probably get .1-.2 cu. ft more total, less what the sub itself uses.

So, the LMT sub is out for sure, ...whats a good alternative?


----------



## chuyler1

That box looks awfully small for any 12". You'd be safer with a 10".


----------



## chad

Hot damn, not wasting any time are you? That's the spirit!

Looks great, keep us posted!

Chad


----------



## 02bluesuperroo

I can't see any of your pics. Who is your host?


----------



## Lanson

chuyler1 said:


> That box looks awfully small for any 12". You'd be safer with a 10".


Thought that too Chuyler but in the end, its not the size of the sub that counts here, its apparently the airspace requirements! I've had on the brain the LMT Eclipse sub, in a 10" model, but the sub wants more space then I can do here. But, the DIYMA sub comes close in all performance requirements for me, is CHEAPER by a longshot, and actually requires far less airspace to run w/ good Q.

The volume of this enclosure is accurately measured (geometrically, by dividing the enclosure shape into boxes and triangles, figuring each section's volume in cu. inches, then summing the parts, and dividing by 1728), I even checked it three times with different shape breakdowns, and they all came up to about .85 cu ft, give or take .1

I'm working all day long on it, and I'll post pics as it goes, so people can use this info for whatever they'd like.


My host is Deviant Art

this is my little place for all my pics:

http://fourthmeal.deviantart.com/


----------



## 02bluesuperroo

No wonder I can't see them. 



> Access Denied (content_filter_denied)
> 
> Your request was denied because of its content categorization: "Arts/Entertainment;Social Networking"
> 
> For assistance, contact your network support team.


----------



## Lanson

Are you the only one? Or is anyone else having problems?

What I can do is upload them to DIYMA, using the thumbnail approach, if you like. Why do you have a filter like that on? At work?


While I was taking a break from inhaling fiberglass and MDF dust (through a respirator, ...gosh), I thought I'd get some chip-and-dip and take a few pics. The top piece fits decently, but I am not entirely happy with the way the bottom mold came out. Oh well, its 100% not visible when complete, so I think I'll live w/ it. I'm going to use the DIYMA12 inverted, I think.

More pics as I go, but one thing I've learned to be careful of is where to put the camera when I'm not using it! I accidentally left it out about 20ft from where I was working (lens cap on), and the whole camera was covered in dust from the work I'm doing. CRAP. Its a Sony DSC-H2 6MP if anybody was curious. <shugs>, I'm going to leave a towel over it next time. 

Next up is to take my new circle cutter and carve a circle to install the DIYMA12 inverted. I don't have the subwoofer yet (I don't have anything yet, actually. I just had the itch to start the project now instead of a month from now, when I'll have the money to buy my gear), but I think the pictures and dimensions of the sub will be sufficient. Here's to hoping I'm right!


----------



## bassfromspace

fourthmeal said:


> Are you the only one? Or is anyone else having problems?
> 
> What I can do is upload them to DIYMA, using the thumbnail approach, if you like. Why do you have a filter like that on? At work?
> 
> 
> While I was taking a break from inhaling fiberglass and MDF dust (through a respirator, ...gosh), I thought I'd get some chip-and-dip and take a few pics. The top piece fits decently, but I am not entirely happy with the way the bottom mold came out. Oh well, its 100% not visible when complete, so I think I'll live w/ it. I'm going to use the DIYMA12 inverted, I think.
> 
> More pics as I go, but one thing I've learned to be careful of is where to put the camera when I'm not using it! I accidentally left it out about 20ft from where I was working (lens cap on), and the whole camera was covered in dust from the work I'm doing. CRAP. Its a Sony DSC-H2 6MP if anybody was curious. <shugs>, I'm going to leave a towel over it next time.
> 
> Next up is to take my new circle cutter and carve a circle to install the DIYMA12 inverted. I don't have the subwoofer yet (I don't have anything yet, actually. I just had the itch to start the project now instead of a month from now, when I'll have the money to buy my gear), but I think the pictures and dimensions of the sub will be sufficient. Here's to hoping I'm right!


I wish we were homeboy's so that you could help me with my install and drive me around in your car.


----------



## Whiterabbit

have you thought about grillework?

and damn you for inverting your diyma. I've been discussing install ideas with alphakenny1 and one of the better ideas we were tossing around was running the diyma inverted by the strut tower. Now we have to do something else to stay original 

but seriously, how do you plan to keep little shyt out of your diyma surround and other softparts after bouncing around your trunk?


----------



## Lanson

Ahh...nothing like the smell of MDF sawdust to get you going! I'm done for the night I think... I cut the way too big hole for the DIYMA in my tiny little box (thankfully it's more then .5 cu. ft. inside there), then started on the circle cutout that would let the sub sit inside the box a little more, allowing me to sink the sub in 3/4", and just as I was making a final pass , cutting through to the end, my damn bit grabbed and skittered my router up and down, snapping my homemade (and quite accurate) circle maker. Didn't damage the piece I was working on, but stopped me cold in cutting circles until I either make a new one, or use the crappy one I bought. I previously bought one at Lowe's, but i liked my homemade one better, since it was less clumsy. I'll post pics on this in a while, but for now I'm tired.

Anyway, I made the hole, and when I get back to it, I'll start bonding the circles to the underneath of my box top. 

I'm going to make a ringed and spoked grille, covered w/ grill cloth on those days that I do need to haul something, but that will come later. I'll likely just let it velcro to the outside of the sub. Something simple, but won't affect the FR.

Here's some pics of the progress, and damage to my lovely homemade jig


----------



## Lanson

Ok, got home from work in time to do a little more work on the box. I needed to make a ring to fit inside of the enclosure, one that would hold the sub inverted a little deeper inside the box, sort of covering the lip of the sub, so it flushes with the deck a little better. Because the box is so small compared to such a big sub diameter, I couldn't cut the inner circle in a normal round pattern. So, I traced the box's inside dimensions on my inner circle, and cut it to match. I guess what I'm saying is that it is a TIGHT FIT. Incidentally, it also snugs up against the box inside there, so if I can glass it or at least reach it with some good adhesive, I the box will be yet stronger and more solid. 

I've used hot glue for temporary hold until I can glue and 'glass the underside of the box, then mate it with the fiberglass tub. It fits pretty well, and snugs in tight up against the car.


















And now, a quick question for the people who occasionally take a peek at this post:
Am I getting to detailed with the buildup for you guys? Too many pics, or too much updating/posting? Let me know! I'm trying to show the build day by day (if I get time to work on the thing), and I'm always open to ideas, suggestions, or constructive criticism. I'm not new to this, but I'm certainly no master.

Thanks for looking! More to come as it happens, if you're interested.


----------



## khail19

fourthmeal said:


> And now, a quick question for the people who occasionally take a peek at this post:
> Am I getting to detailed with the buildup for you guys? Too many pics, or too much updating/posting? Let me know! I'm trying to show the build day by day (if I get time to work on the thing), and I'm always open to ideas, suggestions, or constructive criticism. I'm not new to this, but I'm certainly no master.
> 
> Thanks for looking! More to come as it happens, if you're interested.


No such thing as too many pics or too much updating on this forum.  Keep em coming man!


----------



## evan

khail19 said:


> No such thing as too many pics or too much updating on this forum.  Keep em coming man!


I agree.


----------



## Lanson

*you asked for it...*

Ok, I worked late last night on the box, trying to mate the top with the bottom. I think I did well! Here are some pics of the aftermath (because taking pics while fiberglassing is a good way to get a camera covered in resin):

I made these pics a bit smaller because there's not a ton of detail. I just hot glued the bottom to the top (in the car, to assure I had the correct alignment), then placed wood shims in between the two pieces to take up a some gaps, and hot glued them as well. After that, I slopped on the fiberglass, and bonded the two together. During this process, I took thin strips of mat and shoved them in between the top and bottom, and as those pieces were setting up, I covered them with larger, wider fiber mat to bond the top to the bottom. 



























































And, these pics are what I took inside the box, with the camera seeing what I couldn't. Looks like a scary cave w/ weird secretions!


































And here's why its all worth it:


















Thats all for now, tonight I start the sand/bondo/sand process.


----------



## jisturm

Lookin good.


----------



## evan

Looks good. I'm not sure if you are aiming for this once things are all said and done, but I like the use of two tiers so far. The space could still be very usable, but it adds more interest to the look IMHO.

Nice car. Are the hoods on the MazdaSpeed models any different than the rest of them?


----------



## Lanson

Ahh yes, the two tiered setup was planned, but of course it has varied a little bit. You see, After the factory carpet board covers everything, I'll have my factory trunk space (less the inverted sub poking out), and it will look flat. But, under that, I'm not as concerned about its looks. I'll smooth it out, and probably coat it with either hammered-metal paint (like crinkled black) or truck bed liner. 

With regard to the Mazdaspeed changes, there are a few:

The hood is different, it has a slight bulge in it to accomodate the intercooler on top of the engine. The front fenders are wider, and a slightly different shape. The spoiler is larger on the back hatch, the wheels are 18" instead of 17", the suspension is different, it does to a 6speed, instead of 5, the front fascia is a little different with slim design foglights, and lastly, the underbody is covered and shaped to provide a little downforce and a little less co. drag. Oh, and this is my favorite part...they decided to manufacture these in Japan instead of Mexico, unlike the other 3's


----------



## OldOneEye

What kind of budget do you have?

Juan




fourthmeal said:


> sweet.
> 
> An LMT Eclipse 10" sub, Pioneer PRS 720 components, and some sort of Audiocontrol crossover/eq is planned so far. Amps are still going to be an issue, since I want something that is efficient, small, powerful, but inexpensive. JBL, Pioneer PRS, Soundstream Tarantula, and perhaps a last year's PPI (since I had them before, and loved them), out of those I'm stumped.


----------



## poochieone

sorry if this has already been covered but i didn't have time to read all your comments, but have you considered making up a bit of Resin mix and then putting it inside of the box to seal it and add strength from the inside? drop it in, turn the box on its side, with the face angled downwards and then turn it repeatedly. You can also use a mix of bondo and fiberglass for a thicker consistency and so that it fills more gaps quicker...
for my box, i coated every inch of the wood surface with two coats of resin (inside and out) so that its pretty water proof too 
btw, good job and keep posting those pics!


----------



## Lanson

OldOneEye said:


> What kind of budget do you have?
> 
> Juan


Well, at the exact moment, I have a non-existent one, but my final plans were under $1200 complete. 

Breakdown:
Pioneer PRS components $249
Pioneer PRS amps $500 for both
DIYMA 12 $120
Audiocontrol X-over $125
Sound dampener, and other install materials take the rest.

BTW, I think I've landed on the PRS amps, the new ones (D2100T and D4100F) because they look way better then the older ones, they match the styling I'm after, they are TINY, they use ICEpower, and thus are very efficient. I'm seeing problems with Mazdaspeed3's having poor charging system designs. ICEpower should help here. Plus, they stay cool, so hiding them won't be a problem.

Thoughts?


----------



## dehoff

fourthmeal said:


> Ahh yes, the two tiered setup was planned, but of course it has varied a little bit. You see, After the factory carpet board covers everything, I'll have my factory trunk space (less the inverted sub poking out), and it will look flat. But, under that, I'm not as concerned about its looks. I'll smooth it out, and probably coat it with either hammered-metal paint (like crinkled black) or truck bed liner.
> 
> With regard to the Mazdaspeed changes, there are a few:
> 
> The hood is different, it has a slight bulge in it to accomodate the intercooler on top of the engine. The front fenders are wider, and a slightly different shape. The spoiler is larger on the back hatch, the wheels are 18" instead of 17", the suspension is different, it does to a 6speed, instead of 5, the front fascia is a little different with slim design foglights, and lastly, the underbody is covered and shaped to provide a little downforce and a little less co. drag. Oh, and this is my favorite part...*they decided to manufacture these in Japan instead of Mexico, unlike the other 3's*


The Mazda3's (at least the hatches) are manufactured in Japan, as well. I would not have purchased one if they were manufactured in Mexico, and I had to wait a month for it to be shipped from Japan after it was manufactured.


Nice job on the install so far.


----------



## Lanson

ahhh! I did not know that! That is nice then. I think the sedans are Jap too, according to the edmunds.com research I just did. Wonder how I got Mexico in there? Oh well... 

And thanks for the compliment on the install!

Oh, lots of sanding and bondo-ing today, I'll snap pics as it goes along.


----------



## Lanson

Update and more pics:

Today was sand, sand, sand day. Tomorrow will also be the same, and after that who knows?

I still have a lot to do, but it is starting to make sense now. I decided to use the stock seat bracket bolt mounting locations to install my own form of hinge. I gotta say, this is one of my favorite parts! The concept is that with this part bolted down, I can lock down the sub box (by screwing into it on the side, providing a strong hold), create a location for all the crossovers, and fused distribution block all in a safe and out of the way location. Further, if I do it right, I can have the spare tire accessible underneath the amps, with just a hinge to open and thats it.

I've found some black sound-dampener paint, something that can leave everything looking simple but clean. I've also picked up a gallon of Bondo so I can smooth everything out, and try to clean up the lines a little bit. Anyway, on to the pics:

These 3 pics are of the sub box in its final position, sanding about 1/2 way done. Also, I need to seal the box up better! I used my ShopVac to tell me where the leaks are. There are some.

























Now, pics of my new seat bracket mount, the piece that will provide refuge for the hinge, capacitor (if needed), crossovers, and distibution block

























You can see that the piece bolts down in 3 places, very secure! I had to cut it a bit to allow the bracket to fit properly around the wood. The holes were routered out to fit the factory bracket bolts flush with the wood, and to allow enough of the bolt threads to go back into the car for a safe mount. I honestly don't know how I installed without a router before, it is my favorite tool. 









And here is a quick MS Paint sketch of what the system will turn out to be. Subject to change, etc. etc. But, it all makes sense now!









Tomorrow, I will finish sanding and bondo'ing the sub box, and I might paint it with that sound deadener paint I was talking about, and see how good it looks. Remember, the factory trunk floor panel will cover it all (except for the backside of the DIYMA12 sub, of course.)


----------



## M-Dub

It looks like you have a good plan. I cant wait to see the progress.


----------



## shinjohn

Great job on your install, and thanks so much for the detailed play by play. Looks like you're gonna have a really nice system when all is said and done!!!! I like your little sketches too, nice touch. 

Just one quick observation:

Do you have enough sway space for that big amp rack to swing up and allow access to the spare? I'd guess you'll have to move the hinge point towards the back just a little and then trim the arced section to make sure it can swing up all the way. Perhaps the angle of the shot is bad though.....

In any event, good job, and keep up the good work!


----------



## Whiterabbit

do you plan to cut the hole in the factory floor "DIYMA cutout diameter" so that it hides the screwholes of the basket?


----------



## Lanson

Thanks for the compliments and comments!

You are 100% correct, the amp rack will have to be trimmed. I didn't want to trim it until I found my hinge of choice. I am trying to avoid door hinges, and instead I am looking possibly for a solution with PVC piping. WEIRD, I know, but in my head, I can imagine two pieces of piping, one with a slightly smaller diameter on the outside then another one of its inside, so they operate within each other. By carefully cutting slits and holes into this, I can have the pieces act like a HUGE hinge, and the side benefit of this is that they can hold the power/speaker/interconnect wiring, at different sections of the piping.

One other thought I'm having is how to strengthen the amp rack, and how to make it hold (whatever amps I end up with) in the correct form. I am looking into aluminum "L" and square stock, to see if it will work. I can't weld, but I can drill and screw. You know how some hinges operate on totally different arcs then a circle, right? Thats what I'm looking for. Like how old classic car hoods used to do. We'll see.

Thats all for the moment, I'm off to find carpet to match the factory, and/or some sort of vinyl or maybe even textile, since my seats are covered in a ballistic cordura or something cool like that. I won't need any for the top, but I need a small amount to make trims on the front of the box, so when viewed from the rear seat area, it looks clean. I'm also off to find a magic hinge.


----------



## Lanson

Okay, so while looking for some carpet to match the stock material, I happened across some killer pvc vinyl. It is super thick, a deep black, and stretches in 2 dimensions easily. So, now I have my covering! I was planning on working from morning to night, but the morning shopping took forever, and wasted 4 hours of time. EEEK. I got my hinges, but its the basic door hinge, one with a longer plate. My PVC "pipe dream" didn't work out, because I couldn't find any combination of pipes that would work. I'm looking at a neat little cooling fan concept, though. By raising the floor of the trunk a few inches, there is a spot that allows for a fan exhaust, with NO visibility of it. Hard to explain, but pics will help here. I am slowly but surely going to get this done.

This is the mockup (thank Hot Glue) of my new addition. This part (right of the sub box) will provide support for the hinges, and hold the crossovers and fuse block (all viewable from the top under plexi or acrylic.) 

















This is what the trunk will look like with the factory covers back in place (except of course, the DIMYA's motor poking up)

























The exposed wood you see will be hidden by the black PVC vinyl covering.









At this point, I'm almost wishing I could find a sub that would allow me to keep the trunk just like you see it in the pics. Almost every sub, of course, is extremely deep. My current depth of the box allowed by the sub could only be 4.5" though. Anybody know of a sub that can do this? And, does it sound as good and loud as the DIYMA or JL W7? Thats the goal, ya know.


----------



## cadaver

Elemental Design's SQ10 would do that depth its only 3 and some deep. good reviews for it also. check out www.icixsound.com for feedback.


----------



## chad

That looks so good, you have got me totally inspired to clean up my mess!

Chad


----------



## fit_tuner

i suggested this in another thread, but if you can afford it, critical mass has some shallow mount subs, i havent heard one myself, but i've read some good things about them, just on the pricey side...


----------



## Lanson

YOU AREN'T KIDDING.

Of course, if I can get them for $200...

Sucks, but I'm going to have to invert.


----------



## TChrismen

You could try the Pioneer shallow mount 12" since I am pretty sure you have the hole cut out for a 12. I have the 10 and I am very impressed with it. I listen to a lot of rock and metal and it sounds great. My friend is getting a 12 installed in a week or so and I'll let you know how it sounds if you want.


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## Lanson

My main problem with the pioneer (or any subwoofer I've sold and auditioned before) is that I am used to a pair of well powered JL Audio 10W3's. I know that subs like the DIYMA will pound, but i'm concerned that a single pioneer may not. I have sold them before, and it was never an amazing sound demo in the car afterward. It was more like "subtle addition", instead of take-your-breath-away impact. I'm after the latter.


----------



## evan

I've never heard the diyma12 described as "take your breath away" loud. It's mostly been described as transparent.


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## Lanson

fuggit....


I'm scrapping this plan, and am going to build a totally different setup. I spent some time looking at it in a few different ways (in other threads of our great forum here, thanks guys) and I just don't like where this one is headed. Instead, I'm going to use the spare tire well as my new location, and mount the amps in front of that. I drafted the plan out, and I think it will work more effectively (as a stealth install) if I truly keep the factory trunk floor height. There are many things that go wrong when I change it (like how it lines up with the seats when folded, as example), and I want more space to haul things, not less. Also, I will be able to use the sub I wanted to in the first place, the Eclipse LMT, and it will have its required airspace of 1.5-1.7 cu ft. 

So, if anybody wants parts of this project as-is, maybe to fix it up and make something they want in their Mazda3, then so be it. I'm going to start fiberglassing the tire well this weekend, if I can.


----------



## shinjohn

Good luck! Tough decision to scrap something after that much work, but if it isn't right for you then you gotta do what you gotta do.

Keep us posted on your progress though! You're inspiring me to get going on a subwoofer enclosure rebuild myself!


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## Lanson

OK, finally got some free time, and decided on a new plan of attack. I am completely ditching the spare, going with the Eclipse SW8000 sub (in about 1.5-1.7 cu. ft sealed), and going to install it all below the factory deck height. I spent some time trying to figure out how to make a decent cover for the amps and sub, and what I ended up doing was take the factory trunk cover and use it as a mold, with MDF cut out and set in position on top of this. Then I covered the whole thing in foil and blue painter's tape. Finally, I pulled a thick fleece around it all, but left it somewhat loose to get a nice droop out of the material. I ran out of resin hardner halfway through, so I decided to mix the resin with bondo-glass and used the slurry with the cream hardener that came with the bondo-glass. Fleece sucks up so much resin, it only seems smart to use more of a thick cream to coat the sucker, anyway. We'll see how it turns out tomorrow. I'm optimistic that It'll work. My main fear is that I accidentally will get some resin on the floor cover. Since that part will be reused, I can only hope and pray that I did an OK job with the foil and blue tape. (Fingers Crossed)

Anyway, after this is done, I plan on grabbing a bunch more fiberglass mat and resin (this time at an actual fiberglass store, not Walmart, Autozone, PepBoys, or Home Depot, it just costs a ton more), and then I'll make the tub from the spare tire well, and create a nice , easy mounting solution for it all in the trunk. Looks to be 1000% easier then the complex, heavy box I spent forever building.

Here are the pics of the nasty looking mess:


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## chuyler1

I really think you are going about this the wrong way. It is much easier to build up your box from the bottom as I described in one of my previous posts (perhaps in the other thread). Fiberglass is NOT very strong across flat surfaces such as the panel you just made. A piece of 3/4" MDF would be much stronger and potentially lighter than a fiberglass panel of equal strength. What you made there is going to flex like crazy. It will also be difficult to match it up with what you end up doing underneath. 

Fiberglass is all about planning ahead. You have to have an overall structure and a concrete plan on how things are going to fit together before you open a single can of resin. It appears to me that this project may go the route of your previous project. Remember my words of advice: K.I.S.S.


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## bobditts

why not get your matt at walmart? its the exact same thing at the more expensive store. its much much cheaper at walmart.


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## Lanson

chuyler1 said:


> I really think you are going about this the wrong way. It is much easier to build up your box from the bottom as I described in one of my previous posts (perhaps in the other thread). Fiberglass is NOT very strong across flat surfaces such as the panel you just made. A piece of 3/4" MDF would be much stronger and potentially lighter than a fiberglass panel of equal strength. What you made there is going to flex like crazy. It will also be difficult to match it up with what you end up doing underneath.
> 
> Fiberglass is all about planning ahead. You have to have an overall structure and a concrete plan on how things are going to fit together before you open a single can of resin. It appears to me that this project may go the route of your previous project. Remember my words of advice: K.I.S.S.



Worth noting, but this isn't a structural panel. This is trim.

The real glasswork will be underneath, and yes, MDF will be the primary for the flat spots. Good looking out though.

Walmart? Cheaper? No. Also, I continuously run them dry of mat and resin. 'Nuff said.


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## Whiterabbit

and FYI the strength of glass comes from the fiber, not the filler. if there is no resin impregnation into the weave, there is no comparative strength. The more resistant a given filler is (for example, adding a bodyfiller paste), the less impregnation of the fiber will occur.

Something to keep in mind when you get going on the actual enclosure. I too think you are going about the build in the wrong way, but I also think if you build any other "way" than "your way", its going to come out wrong anyways. so good luck. I hope it comes out OK in the end.


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## Lanson

Ahh, today is another day off, another day to get messy with this project! I found a speciality fiberglass store, one that specializes in boats, naturally. Their cost on resin isn't too good a deal ($28/gallon), but their mat IS. They had 1.5oz mat for $.65 per square foot, and 3.0oz for $.75 per square foot. I bought a gallon of their resin to see how good or bad it is (ITS GOOD), and I think 25 square feet of 3oz mat, and 10 sq. feet of 1.5oz mat. Thats a lot of mat! For those in the Vegas area, the store is known as Industrial Fiberglass Specialties, located on Industrial Rd, just behind Circus Circus.

Anyway, I got about 3 layers of 3oz. mat down, and started to make a nice tub for the sub. Here are some pics of that progress:



















And here is a quick mockup of what I have planned. Its more basic then my last idea, but also way lighter, and more stealthy. Again, my only loss is the spare tire, but since I have pressure sensors in the tires stock, I can hopefully avoid a blowout. I figure I'll just keep a tiny compressor somewhere back there, and on long trips, I'll carry the spare in the trunk. 



















This new direction of the project seems to make everything much more simple and smooth. Also, the "light" factor helps here, since the spare tire with wheel weighs right at 30lbs, and the sub, box, top cover, and amps should weigh no more then 60-80lbs total. 

This brings up a good question for all of you, ...How heavy is an Eclipse SW8000? There is no spec for it. I know the magnet is 200oz (12.5 lbs), but I wonder how much the whole thing weighs in at. My guess is 15lbs. or so.


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## dawgdan

bobditts said:


> why not get your matt at walmart? its the exact same thing at the more expensive store. its much much cheaper at walmart.


Wow. This couldn't be further from the truth.


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## Triple-X

bobditts said:


> why not get your matt at walmart? its the exact same thing at the more expensive store. its much much cheaper at walmart.





dawgdan said:


> Wow. This couldn't be further from the truth.


Agreed Dan...

LOL... sorry man.. thats just incorrect. maybe you havnt used anything else but Bondo Brand Fiberglass Cloth and MAT (i know i guy named MATT). but if you order some from a place that deals with composite materials you'll find that not only is the stuff they sell of a quality better, but it actually costs less too. Bondo brand supplies available at walmart (and anywhere else for that matter) are there solely to satisfy the instant gratification gene that plagues so many DIYers and weekend warriors now-a-days.

just a side note. you'll pay around 5.95 for a yard of MAT when you buy the bondo brand. its 3/4oz material as well. 
you can purchase better quality 3/4oz Mat for 1.95 a yard via US Composites. Not to mention other materials which can be used and perhaps even some decent resin instead of the again IMFAMOUS bondo brand.

i dont understand how guys convince themselves to use the absolute best audio products that can be found, and then rationalize themselves into using less than sub par materials while fabricating during the install process. 
Not you in particular.. just in general.

but all in all i will say your project seems to be coming along nicely 4thmeal! materials aside.


----------



## Whiterabbit

Triple-X said:


> i dont understand how guys convince themselves to use the absolute best audio products that can be found, and then rationalize themselves into using less than sub par materials while fabricating during the install process.


I'll bite.

Noone here is using a vacuum system to ensure 100% glass wetting, noone here is weighing out their resin to ensure the proper glass/resin ratio for maximum strength, and noone but Marv is using exotic hardwood void free ply to build subwoofer boxes.

so it doesnt matter HOW good the glass is or resin is because its not the ideal layup no matter what. (I wont argue cost, naturally.)

And the reason it doesnt matter is because we operate on the russian principle anyways. The glass may suck, the resin may suck, the MDF may be porous, the MDF may be heavy, the layups may be of improper resin/glass ratio, and the glass may be poorly wetted. It doesnt matter because its so overbuilt to all hell it makes no difference if its inefficiently done. It'll sound great and perform great because of that alone.

Again, I wont argue the cost. But noone is talking about impossible work like trying to fully wet carbon fibers with polyester resin. Just using ****ty polyester resin to wet ****ty glass. Which is fine, because we use so many layers we get our required strength by default!


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## unpredictableacts

Whiterabbit said:


> It doesnt matter because its *so overbuilt to all hell* it makes no difference if its inefficiently done. It'll sound great and perform great because of that alone.


LOL X2


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## dawgdan

Regarding materials, my main point is this.. an example. 

Wendy's makes a basic cheeseburger. It's far from the best in the world, but it's certainly edible. 3 ounces of "100% American beef". It fills up your stomach and it does the job. This is Bondo resin/mat materials.

Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, if you've ever visited there for lunch, also sells a cheeseburger. It's made from 8 ounces of USDA Prime-grade chucks and sirloins only - the finest that money can buy. It's actually ground-to-order, hand-pattied, and is topped with hand-sliced Cabot cheddar, should you wish. It doesn't just fill up your stomach - it is an experience in hamburgers that parallels no other. This is US Composites resin/mat materials.

Any questions? 

Seriously, I'm a firm believer in the fancy fiberglass materials because having used both, I know that for a nominal premium, the higher-end materials provide a much smoother experience overall. Give me US Composites B-440 resin and Knytex anyday over the Bondo junk. Use it once and you'll agree!


----------



## brandont

fourthmeal said:


> For those in the Vegas area, the store is known as Industrial Fiberglass Specialties, located on Industrial Rd, just behind Circus Circus.
> 
> 
> 
> Before I read the name, I just knew what store you were talking about.
> 
> Everything looks good. BTW what store did you work at when you "sold pioneer"?
Click to expand...


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## Lanson

I'll agree I like the resin and mat from the Industrial speciality store that I bought it from. The resin was much more fresh (looked red when poured, not dull...don't know if that means much, but it cured nearly clear) then the usual bondo gallon I get at walmart or whatnot. And the mat is THICK. 

In other news, I just won purchased an SW8000 through a 2nd chance offer from Ebay. I paid $120 + ship. That, my friends, is a good deal! NIB btw.


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## OldOneEye

dawgdan said:


> Regarding materials, my main point is this.. an example.
> 
> Wendy's makes a basic cheeseburger. It's far from the best in the world, but it's certainly edible. 3 ounces of "100% American beef". It fills up your stomach and it does the job. This is Bondo resin/mat materials.
> 
> Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, if you've ever visited there for lunch, also sells a cheeseburger. It's made from 8 ounces of USDA Prime-grade chucks and sirloins only - the finest that money can buy. It's actually ground-to-order, hand-pattied, and is topped with hand-sliced Cabot cheddar, should you wish. It doesn't just fill up your stomach - it is an experience in hamburgers that parallels no other. This is US Composites resin/mat materials.
> 
> Any questions?
> 
> Seriously, I'm a firm believer in the fancy fiberglass materials because having used both, I know that for a nominal premium, the higher-end materials provide a much smoother experience overall. Give me US Composites B-440 resin and Knytex anyday over the Bondo junk. Use it once and you'll agree!


If all you have to cook it is a hot plate, it doesn't matter. As nice as nice ingrediants are, considering how sloppy we put the stuff together (even the world class car audio guys would probably get owned by guys who make boats and other stuff that is structural).

If its easier to work with, that's cool. But besides that the weakest links aren't going to be the materials but the application.

Juan


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## Lanson

I guess you could also say it all comes out the same at the end. 

Ewww.


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## JMichaels

Maybe it depends on what someone expects out of their work. Coming from an FX background I would say we can pick and choose for the application what will do but in general the Bondo brand and the Wal-Mart goods are just not hitting my shop table. Maybe if you are in a late night pinch and can justify it as a gallon of the Bondo will run about $12 compared to $40 for rage but there is a reason that the shops don't use Bondo.
When you use the cheap stuff it gives you a cheap end result. The stuff can crack, delaminate, and deteriorate in general over time especially form heat and vibration. And when you use the good stuff and weigh it out with proper technique the job goes by quicker, you use less material, and the end product is of higher quality and will last longer. Its not just the money its the time IMHO and the end result. US composites is our friend.


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## Whiterabbit

there isnt a soul in this forum who builds subwoofer enclosures using a "proper" fiberglass technique.

not one soul. I guarantee it.

Don't get me wrong, there are reasons to use the "better stuff". But material property was touted as the main reason (as referenced by "better quality" material), and that's just baloney. Not when layup methods used by enthusiasts use improper glass to resin ratios, poor wetting techniques that leave micro air bubbles in the weave, and no consideration to excess pooled resin in the enclosure bottoms. 

Perhaps said delaminations occured by making multiple glass layups using a finishing resin? (hint: one can buy very nice finishing resins. Bondo brand is not the only distributor) This especially should demonstrate the importance of construction technique over material property. That the "material properties" of poor glass and fiber are just fine for our application. Not sure if I'd trust an airplane skin to that, but now we are scratching the surface of applications where material properties of a composite material might start to matter!

Alternately, if you want to talk about poor layup and delamination caused by poor use of materials, look no further than the infamous "milkshake" style of fabrication! 8\

lets continue to keep bodyfiller out of the debate though. Thats a whole new can of worms with entirely new properties to be worried about, especially the aforementioned rage gold product. Where performance as measured by strength/resonance are not only key considerations, but aesthetic fill capabilities including and especially pin-holing are involved. Only resin and glass (no carbon) need be concerned here!


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## JMichaels

I guess in some ways it comes down to what you have and what works for you sort of like the RCA cable debate.

But again with fiberglass it takes less time, less money, and you get better results doing it the right way so why purposefully be sloppy when you have an easy choice. Sloppy has no benefits and this way you actually learn something. In my work maybe its just that proper technique means if you eat or not. Its just a habit now, I wouldn't know how to use bad technique. Everything has to be weighed(on a $20 postal scale) and carried out in steps or the piece doesn't work. You are going to get much greater strength and better resonance stability out of a piece that cured without catching on fire and was laid out with proper technique. The general purpose resins have went through a big change over the last year with companies cutting back on some of the quality of the components (while raising prices) which has led to resins that fail at abnormally low stress. It will make a difference if you use a good tooling resin compared to a Crack-mart special. Whether we can hear that difference is again very debatable though.

But than again I'm not dropping $500 on RCA cables either. Especially when optical sounds better


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## Triple-X

WHITE RABBIT.. i can see the point your trying to make ....
"sloppy job and materials to match" so to speak. 
but my point is (like jmichaels as well) is that better materials will yield a better end result and that its actually CHEAPER to get better materials than low quality materials. The general purpose resins and fiberglass cloths and chop strand mats (whether Bondo brand or not) are actually more expensive, the only positive being that they are available locally. 
The fact that you emphasized that the hack job's or "improper technique's" done by most using these materials in this case i think only further supports that better quality materials will yield a better result. Especially when dealing with Resins that "wet-out" better and mat's and cloths that are "more absorbent" not to mention materials that havn't been on the shelf for god knows how long. Like Dawgdan said.. try some better quality materials and you will agree.

But I have no intention on trying to convince anyone how they should go about fabricating cause that's beating a dead horse. 

But the reason why we dont vacuum bag and make all of our fiberglass parts in general to what "the composite pro's" would approve of is because it isn't practical for the application and is very time consuming, far more expensive, and requires much more than just a "general" knowledge of composites, and we both know that most weekend warriors wont go this far.
Besides.. what is really the "proper technique" in a field where the methods, technique's, tips, tricks, etc are constantly being changed or improved upon and or upgraded with the sole intention on doing it better and faster?

But if you could spend *less* money on *better* materials that may possibly yield a better end result....? that just seems like a no-brainer to me.


----------



## DaveRulz

I'll attest to the fact that using better resin makes the whole process easier. I used bondo resin to do an entire trunk set up, and it was a real pain to work with. It dried really fast, and did not lay up easily. I have since worked with boat yard resin, (equivalent to some that is offered by US composites) It was like night and day. Having 20+ minutes to work with the resin before it starts to set up and gel is very nice. The finished product comes out much, much better if you use better materials. The fact that they cost less makes it a no-brainer. You just need to resist the urge to buy the bondo stuff for instant gratification.


----------



## Triple-X

DaveRulz said:


> I'll attest to the fact that using better resin makes the whole process easier. I used bondo resin to do an entire trunk set up, and it was a real pain to work with. It dried really fast, and did not lay up easily. I have since worked with boat yard resin, (equivalent to some that is offered by US composites) It was like night and day. Having 20+ minutes to work with the resin before it starts to set up and gel is very nice. The finished product comes out much, much better if you use better materials. The fact that they cost less makes it a no-brainer. You just need to resist the urge to buy the bondo stuff for instant gratification.


 X10

thats what its all about in the end .. that damned instant gratification factor.. 
it plagues many a DIYer..lol


----------



## Whiterabbit

I'll never argue the cost perspective.

But do you have any quantitative data on glass fibers that "absorb better"? What mechanical properties are you citing, and more importantly, where do you find information on such?

And do you really take these properties into consideration when choosing a material, or do you merely decide one glass is better than another based on the reputation of the distributor, then factor in the cost? I suspect this is much more likely the real issue.

(I'd love an answer to these two paragraphs if you have one, hopefully one that doesnt involve resin)

I also have yet to see an argument to support "better materials yields better product." The argument I read went more like "Better materials allowed me to be lazier to achieve the same performance." Isn't THAT what instant gratification is all about?

And I'm glad we agree on ideal methedologies of construction when it comes to holding high standards. Since we both agree that it is unreasonable to hold hobbyists to those standards, I am so glad that for once someone agrees with me that there may not be "the right way of doing something"! (which can be rewritten as 'I don't like people who say "if you are going to do something, do it right.' post #103 is very clear in agreeing with my sentiment of 'if you are going to do something, do it "well"')

And since we can achieve the same performance using "good enough" construction methods combined with the russian principle of overbuilt and overkill, wouldnt you say the SOLE factor in deciding whether Product A or Product B (whether glass or resin) yields a "superior finished product" is cost alone?

seems that way to me.


----------



## Whiterabbit

Triple-X said:


> But if you could spend *less* money on materials that *may* possibly yield a better end result....? that just seems like a no-brainer to me.


(two words edited by myself)

now, if we could agree that the word "better" was a hedging word in the above quote, This sounds much less misleading.

And I agree with the above sentiment completely.


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## chuyler1

Enough of this bickering about resin quality...lets see some more photos!


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## Lanson

HOLD your horses. I did 4 layers last night, but my cam was dead. 

I'll shoot some tonight.


----------



## POLKAT

I was wondering... (at the risk of sounding creepy lol) I have always wanted to learn more about fiberglassing but I have never had the nerve to try it myself. Since both of us are in Vegas, if you wanted a little help with your install(I promise I would stay out of your way), I would enjoy being of some assistance, as well as seeing what I could possibly learn about car audio in general. If not, I completely undestand.

Let me know okay?


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## unpredictableacts

....sounds pretty creepy to me...nothing wrong with a man crush between two grown men I guess?


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## Lanson

well that would be like the blind leading the blind my man! My suggestion...check with reputable, nice shops (Tweeter, etc.) and watch them for a while. They have clear glass doors between the shop and the floor. 

For me, I only get to do my hobby work after I get off (real) work, so usually its just spur-of-the-moment, which lends poorly to a planned get together. I apologize! 

Speaking of which, I'm about to put some more layers down, and start the top. I'll keep posting pics. Thanks you guys for your support!

BTW,...I finally got down to it and TONS of goodies are on their way. I had to wait until the funds were there, but I got all of it done except for the front PRS components. I picked up the Mark Antony 4ch (a great temporary solution), an Eclipse SW8000, KnuKonceptz wiring, Streetwires battery terminals, Rick's Raamat and ensolite, more fiberglass, more mat, more tools for the hell of it, and more wood. 

I'll post later on!


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## POLKAT

lol I'm happily married thanks  

Just wanting to see if I could help another forum member out.


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## kyheng

POLKAT said:


> I was wondering... (at the risk of sounding creepy lol) I have always wanted to learn more about fiberglassing but I have never had the nerve to try it myself. Since both of us are in Vegas, if you wanted a little help with your install(I promise I would stay out of your way), I would enjoy being of some assistance, as well as seeing what I could possibly learn about car audio in general. If not, I completely undestand.
> 
> Let me know okay?


I wish my country also got nice person like you, willing to help on doing car's ICE installations. But sad to say is people in the forum will only ask or recommend to go to this or that cut throat ICE shops.


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## unpredictableacts

kyheng said:


> I wish my country also got nice person like you, willing to help on doing car's ICE installations. But sad to say is people in the forum will only ask or recommend to go to this or that cut throat ICE shops.


I was actually looking to move to malaysia.....how is it out there? corrupt?


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## kyheng

unpredictableacts said:


> I was actually looking to move to malaysia.....how is it out there? corrupt?


Check your pm.


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## unpredictableacts

kyheng said:


> Check your pm.


 back to you.


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## Lanson

I lied. I was going to post pics, but I figured you've seen enough fiberglass layup ones. Basically, I just spent a while putting a few more layers down in the weaker areas (thats a relative term, the tub is STRONG), and I decided to spray minimal-expanding foam in the spots where the glass has not laid perfectly. 

Oh, bought a new tool, and its one I recommend to anybody working on car audio. Angle Grinder! I bought the cheap $18 one at Harbor Freight...and honestly it does a great job! I normally drop $$ for the higher grade tools, but this time I wanted to stay simple. Turns out, for a tool like an angle grinder (grinding fiberglass, not metal), it works well! I can tell I'd want more power if I was going through harder objects, but for MDF and fiberglass, this cheapie works wonders. I don't know how I got along without it, honestly. Even my old box that I gave up on seems reworkable with this new tool.

Now that the glasswork is thick and strong throughout, I am working on the top deck portion. Integrating it to the tub seems tricky, but I think I'll go the way of a Gel Epoxy or maybe a high grade wood glue. 

Progress is being made, and I'll keep this updated.


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## unpredictableacts

$18? ill pic one up, and give my dremel a break.


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## Lanson

*Big update: Major Progress!*

OK, I got a LOT done today. Or maybe it just looks like it. Either way, I'm very happy with how it is all turning out. I have run into one slight problem: it appears my "temporary" amp, my Mark Antony, is quite tall! Originally, I planned (and still do) to run the Premier PRS amps, which are much shorter in height. Not quite so much as this one. So, my preparations for the PRS amps to sit just below the final beauty board led to the Mark amp poking above it. Oh well!

Here's some pics for those that care:

This is a shot of the bare trunk after I hit it with some neat rubberized sound deadener I found at PepBoys. Yes, I know that PB is not a place to buy quality sound deadener, but I wanted to try it since it seemed good for the price and amount. I was right! It sprayed real evenly, cured quick, and killed any resonance that was there. Mainly, I wanted something that was thin (so the box's shell would fit still), but would prevent the fiberglass box from squeaking or resonating against the metal of the trunk. 

















The fiberglass tub shell with 3/4" MDF top Gorilla Glue'd on. Note the cut out inside: I am going to build up the subwoofer's mounting height a bit, so I figured I could cut a hole then install a slightly larger board above it. This hole will also let me pour in some thick "milkshake" to help guarantee a sealed enclosure. 

























I forgot to take a pic of the vinyl work done to the amp's beauty board, forgive me on that one! I had so much spray adhesive on my finger tips I was apprehensive of grabbing the camera for shots. Anyway, its a 1/4" MDF board with some nice PVC vinyl that I grabbed from JoAnn's fabric store. Bargain bin, something like $1.60 a yd. It looks like stuff you would fabricate a vinyl catwoman costume out of, or maybe something a Goth could use to make a pretty dress. Either way, it is excellent, 2way stretching, vinyl. As you can see, it absorbed the flash from the camera shot quite well! As did the Mark amp.









This is with a mock-up of the sub in place. I've got an idea to pretty-up the final design a bit. Hint: It involves lights. I'm also going to cut out a similar box for the sub's beauty board, but of course the sub is round. I've got some silver paint which should closely match my car's, and with it I'm going to *try* to make a cool piece of trim under the sub's cover board. <shugs> Its not going to be super high tech, but good enough to show with a bit of pride. I know some of you guys can do some crazy things with fiberglass and gel-coat, but I've got a simpler plan in mind. We'll see how it looks tomorrow, I think.

































All in all, this design is working much better then my last one, and faster too. I'm pretty happy with the outcome so far. Here's another pic with some fantastic MS Paint work done, to show the final intent of the design. 









I think this design is nice for many reasons, primarily because it is modular! That means when I add something, or change something up, I can easily do it by making the appropriate beauty board. Since I do plan on constantly changing gear to achieve nirvana, this is a big plus.

Until tomorrow then!


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## Whiterabbit

*Re: Big update: Major Progress!*

does the trim board interferre with the RCA jacks?

If not, having it stick up doesnt appear to be an aesthetic dealbreaker at all, really. its looking nice.


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## Lanson

good question! My answer is that the board can adjusted height-wise to match up correctly with the amp. I'm sure it will sit a little higher then the picture shows. That was with wood stuffed under the beauty board.

The sub's board and subsequently the other two boards will all have to match in height, which means I need to carefully figure out how to sync the height up for all of them. I think I'll use 3/4" square wood tripled up to form partitions.


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## Whiterabbit

if the partitions span the boundaries between panels, its easier to get them to match 

(my falsefloor uses segments 1"x3" in size for this exact purpose)


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## Lanson

yes, exactly! thats the plan. Also, I'm going to have lighting on those partitions (like rope l.e.d. or something), so spanning them is perfect for that.


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## Lanson

Update:

I received my Eclipse SW8000 sub (man, its beautiful!), my KnuKonceptz wiring, Streetwires terminals, all in the last few days. Also got in my Raamat and Ensolite.










I'm making pretty good progress for the time I've been able to work on this project. The sub box got 3 coats of "milkshake", the first one being a very thick and "hot" version to quickly seal any gaps or crevices that could keep the enclosure from being airtight. The other two progressively more thin to coat the surfaces of the inside of the box, for a little extra rigidity. I would say it worked very well. I won't know how good of a seal I've made around the thing until I get the sub powered up, and listen for leaks. 

I got the sub box in the car, and I was fortunate that it still fit like a glove, despite working on the outside of the box for sealing and fortifying. It actually fits so snug, I'm not sure I need to bolt it in. Anyway, all is looking good for the foundation of the design, which is this enclosure. Here's some pics of that:


















Here is a mockup of the sub and amp


















And here is a mockup of the whole thing, including the cubby spots for the crossovers and wiring blocks, located on the left and right of the sub. You may notice that the sub's top panel is actually a rectangle instead of a circle. My idea is to create a little continuity in design by matching the sub's cutout opening, and use grill cloth to protect the sub. Also, underneath this area will be painted bright silver, same as the car, and clearcoated (or maybe I'll use plexi or acrylic for that nice wet look). This silver will show through the grill cloth (I hope), and accent the sub nicely.


















Well, I should be near completion by tomorrow or monday, depending on how much trouble the wiring is. I ran into some issues with both they vinyl and the actual amp cover. I had a failure of the adhesive that held the vinyl to the cover board, and it just fell apart completely. I was pissed. I should have used Raamaudio spray. Damn it. Anyway, I started to tear the ruined vinyl off the cover board, and somehow I put too much pressure against it and I snapped the board in two. You might be able to see that in the last few pics, as I tried to glue it back together to salvage it. Didn't work, so now I have to redo that whole board. Not the end of the world, but certainly a PITA.


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## chuyler1

Starting to come together nicely.


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## unpredictableacts

any
more progress?


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## Lanson

Just wanted to post that I got very weary of having all this gear and not having any music, so I rigged it up in my car to
a.) make sure it all works (it does)
b.) satisfy my urge to hear the fruits of my labor (I did)

So, and this might impress some of you, and may frighten others...I took my Mark Antony amp, connected it directly to the 4 gauge I ran to the trunk (fused at the battery), and connected ground directly as well. For 12V+ remote turn on, I just routed a small wire from the main power input to the remote input (which i disconnect when I'm not listening to the system). For signal, since my factory head unit is awaiting total disassembly for RCA pigtail install, I am running my iPod directly to the RCA inputs via phono-to-RCA outputs, split w/ y connectors to all 4 channels of the amp. 

Honestly, other then the fact that I ran out of sealant/caulk while tidying up my enclsoure, I'm really happy with the output and sound quality. The fronts are still stock Mazda neodymium speakers, but with a lot more power and a flat response, they sound decent. Certainly the addition of supreme low-end (the Eclipse sub) is helpful in the satisfaction department.

Anyway, its rigged, but it works! Sure, I have to go to the trunk every time I want to turn it on (for the remote trigger cheat), but hey, its all temporary. As soon as I get the time to crack the factory H.U., I'll have all that running properly.

Its worth mentioning that the Eclipse sub sounds amazing. Its fast, clear, and DEEEEEEP. The air leaks in the box are completely annoying, but I'll address that as soon as I can get time to.


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## Lanson

*update: getting a signal*

This update focuses on my attempts at getting a signal to the amp in the trunk.

Some may remember that I decided to modify the factory H.U., or at least _try_. That attempt failed, to say the least. I was using this link: http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=66591 , to make this difficult task possible. Oh, I'm sorry, difficult for me, the non EE person.  Those with EE education will likely be more like  , but for me, it scared the **** out of me. I've built computers before, but that's easy compared to tracing paths and understanding logic on a double-sided circuit board! I didn't get past popping the whole thing apart and preparing the circuit board for work. The reason is THE LINK ABOVE GOES TO A PRE-'06 HEAD UNIT. Oops. The second I pulled the board out, I realized that I had a completely different layout here, with me having no hope of understanding what to do. Here are pics of that blunder... 

































































































You know what _blew_ me away?  When I decided that I had no chance of modifying this head unit, I carefully put it all back together, and IT WORKED! It worked like I had never touched it. I was pleased.

Of course, I now had a functional head unit again, but I was still without a solution. So, in desperation, I went down and visited some of my old co-workers at Ultimate Electronics, knowing that I have an in-store credit card w/ them. One of my old buddies worked through some options with me, but since no head unit (besides the PRS880) could do what I wanted, I asked about going with an integrator, like JL Cleansweep. Anyway, after a bit of playing around with it, he hooked me up big time wiith a *Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.2!* I don't have a palm w/ bluetooth yet, so at this moment I can't tell you what the hell it can do, but I CAN tell you that if you hook it up without programming, it at least plays like a line driver, which is nice for me until I convince one of my friends to let me borrow his PDA/phone that will work. That will be tomorrow, BTW. Here are some pics of the install. I put the brain under the passenger seat, with a vinyl-wrapped board underneath it, and an 3/4" MDF board under the carpet to bolt it down to. Ensolite layers were used throughout the beauty board and the under-board to prevent chafing or rattling. Worked pretty well IMO. Also, the 3sixty.2 comes with an external dial controller, which I begrudgingly installed in the center of the lower console. I didn't want to put it there because it involved cutting a REALLY obvious hole in the console, which is a "full-commit" action, to say the least. I think it turned out really well in the end though. 

































Thats it for now. Tomorrow I'll be able to tune it the way it is supposed to be tuned, with my friend's PDA/phone. I DO need a bluetooth palm, through, so I can tweak and tune to my delight. That'll come soon enough.


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## chuyler1

*Re: update: getting a signal*

Perhaps the write-up I did on my Mazda Protege5 will give you some more inspiration. For the Mazda6 mod, they found the inputs to the amplifier chip and tapped into those. For my Protege5 mod (which I didn't come up with entirely myself), I found the signal just after the volume control chip. It was only 0.5v, not enough for my DLS amps, but it would be enough to get the signal to a RF360 which could boost it some more.

Anyway, food for thought...
http://www.huyler.net/personal/HU-LineOut/index.htm


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## Lanson

well one thing about the 3sixty.2 is that it auto-flattens the factory outputs, so there is absolutely no need to worry about the deck anymore. 

Actually, it sounds great just as is, but the programming will come later tonight, when my friend gets here. For now, I'm working on finishing the trunk (off work early rulz.)


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## alphakenny1

i must say so far, great work man!


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## unpredictableacts

no more updates in the rear?


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## OldOneEye

Rockford makes a controller for a PC computer running XP with a bluetooth dongle. Get a laptop and you are set.

Juan


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## Lanson

lol...yeah, the palm wasn't expensive enough! No, no laptop for me, for now. IF I had laptop money, I'd spend it on front components, and bills.

The trunk work should be completed soon. I'm waiting on a.) spray adhesive from Raamaudio, and b.) free time. The "b.)" of that should be no problem pretty soon. My new job has me working from 6am to 3pm, with weekends off, so finally I have time to build and tune. Still, need the adhesive before I can cover the setup w/ vinyl or whatever.

I'll do my best to get it finished this weekend though. Believe me, I'm as ready to finish it as you are to see it. I promise!


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## Whiterabbit

unpredictableacts said:


> no more updates in the rear?

















(sorry, had to  )


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## Lanson

maybe "trunk" would be the right word, eh?

Anyway, 3sixty.2 FTMFW!

Just got it calibrated and tuned, WOW.

So clear and detailed, and very accurate. The on-the-fly adjustments through the bluetooth is nice. Gives me a great idea of what will work, and what won't.

The neat thing to me is that it flattens ONLY the electrical output from the head unit. It doesn't listen to the car, or speakers. This means that you can then tune to your ear's content after the factory mess ups have been fixed. Example: the subwoofer 15 band EQ adjustments that the system made were immense. The roll off created by the head unit has been completely eliminated. Now the amp sees a 20hz through ~75hz flat response to the sub. I also like the before-after graphs.

One very interesting thing I've noticed is that my stock front speakers do not suck! After EQ, and basic crossover frequency work, I've found the stockers can do well below 50hz cleanly without distortion, and sound good doing it. I've got them set at 60hz on the 3sixty.2, and the sub set at 70hz, all w/ 24dB/oct. The progression from mids to sub using test tones is good. For those that care, the factory speakers on the Mazdaspeed3 are 5x7 neodymium components. 

All in all, its a great device. Highly recommended.


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## caohyde

i read the whole thread in one sitting (tired eyes already), but i just have to complement you. great work.  :thumbsup:


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## Lanson

holy **** man!  

Thanks! But, i gotta say...get out more....lol, I'm, not that important and neither is my install.

I hope to actually make some progress this weekend in finishing. The Mark amp failed, and Overstock is sending me a new one. Should be here in a couple days. I also got the adhesive spray I've been wanting to try (you know, something that might actually WORK) from rick at raamaudio, so I should be done soon.


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## caohyde

i actually, i was out and just read your thread to relax, or so it would've been, if i didn't read it through and through. lol. been looking for ideas and yours seemed like a good one. 

cheers!


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## ACRucrazy

So what does the 360.2 have for outputs?


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## Lanson

Left Front
Right Front
Left Rear
Right Rear
Center
Subwoofer

Theoretically, it could be used for 3-way plus sub, provided you didn't mind the mid-bass and sub-woofer being mono. A lot of people let the front be the tweeters, rears be mids, and leave the center alone, and of course have the sub out.

I do like the fact that, if someday I'd want to run a center (not in this car, naturally, but maybe another one.), then I would be able to, even w/ a simple 2ch in. ALSO, it is worth mentioning that you can daisy-chain multiple 3sixty.2's together, which would allow virtually unlimited setup. At that point, w/ a little ingenuity (and help already provided by RF on their website for such tasks), you can run tweeter,midrange,midwoofer,subwoofer, rear fill, and stereo sub, or more, if you like.


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## Lanson

slight update:

I Decided to finish the trunk off in black synthetic suede, padded with headliner underneath. Here's a few shots of that:









































So, that was pretty cool. Here's bad news:

The new Mark Antony shipped to me via Overstock.com that replaced the broken one...yeah, it failed too! Same test song, same exact part in the song. Low bass note, very deep and intense. POP! Music gone, stock head unit still playing. Flipped the car off, to hopefully reset the amp. NOPE. Same damn protect light glowing under the panels. DAMN! That does it, I'm giving up for good on Mark amps. ****'em. And O'stock, as nice as they are about the last amp...they better not say a word to the contrary when I DEMAND my money back. These amps are NO good. And, if you are thinking "maybe its the song", I played it in my home system and it was fine. Played it on my iPod, and we're good. Hell, I played it on the stock rear speakers still hooked up to the HU, and its fine. So, its not the song, its the amps. Worth mentioning the amp wasn't even warm. 


Have any of you ever had an amp that just "popped", and failed to ever work again? Most go into a rebootable protect, right? MY PPI's, Alpines, and MTX's all shut down, and turned right back on again when it happened. The ONLY possible way I could see my equipment causing the problem is that the sub is 3ohms DC, but should be around 4ohms AC. What if the Eclipse SW8000 goes into a super-low impedance spike in the 30hz range? Dunno....


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## quality_sound

Did it ever occur to you it's the _SUB_ and not the amp? That's my guess, unless you have it loaded too low like 2 ohms bridged or something.


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## Lanson

its hard to wire wrong, seeing as its a SVC. In fact, the sub works flawlessly. It is Eclipse's best, and apparently made by TC sounds. It is an LMT sub. I LOVE it. It runs at 4ohm nominal, according to the specs. 

even so, wouldn't the typical amp protect itself and then COME OUT of protection?


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## quality_sound

fourthmeal said:


> its hard to wire wrong, seeing as its a SVC. In fact, the sub works flawlessly. It is Eclipse's best, and apparently made by TC sounds. It is an LMT sub. I LOVE it. It runs at 4ohm nominal, according to the specs.
> 
> even so, wouldn't the typical amp protect itself and then COME OUT of protection?


It's _supposed_ to but it's not unheard of for the amp to just die. The old Sony "Big Reds" would do the same as yours occasionally. Original SS Refs would too. But just for S&Ds I'd hook your sub up to another known good amp and see if it trips the protection circuit on that one.


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## Lanson

Oh, I've done that. I wanted to make sure the sub was functional (Ebay buy), so I used my friend's Hifonics mono amp. IT POUNDED!

I've got my eye on the Pioneer PRS amps, the old ones (cheaper). Got an Ebay bid out on the 2000D model right now. If I get it, I'll snap up the 4ch 4000 model to match.

Also, really looking strongly at the MTX Super Thunder 7804 4ch. Thats a hell of an amp.


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## kyheng

Maybe can consider to use a monoblock to punch the sub? Since it blow 2 amps in a row...


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## dawgdan

Maybe you should consider a 1-ohm stable amp just for safety. That's a pretty low DCR for a 4-ohm sub. I think most I've DMM'd are in the 3.3-3.9 range.

I really can't say enough praise about the Rockford Power series. I know RF is basically a household name these days, but they really are rock solid. Mine was $185 BNIB shipped from a forum member. 98 watts per channel at 4 ohms, likely somewhere in the 330-370 range bridged into 2 ohms.


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## quality_sound

I don't know what your budget is a but an original Rubicon1000 would be sweet. Maybe you need more power?


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## Lanson

I think I've reached the final solution. I just won a Pioneer PRS-2000DT amp off eBay, on the cheap. Now all I need is a PRS-D4000F, and I'll have what I want. Curiously, these are the amps I wanted in the first place!

The lack of massive current draw will be welcome, since the MS3's charging system sucks. Both of those amps will fit in the place of the single Mark amp, but no doubt I'll have to re-do the amp cover, to fit them. I hate that. Those covers take time, you know?!

Here's what I just won:









Now, does anybody know someone selling the 4ch version cheap? I got this one for $125. NIB.


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## quality_sound

niiiiiice


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## Lanson

Here's some daytime pics. A little cleaner as well:


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## quality_sound

I'm diggin the crap out of the suede.


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## Mazda3SQ

I didn't see any shots of deadening the doors. Have you had a chance to yet and if so how difficult a time was it for you?


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## bobditts

the daytime pic looks much better. it hides more of the suede (how its hard to keep the "grain" going in the same direction). nice job!


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## Lanson

Mazda3SQ said:


> I didn't see any shots of deadening the doors. Have you had a chance to yet and if so how difficult a time was it for you?


I've done the left side, but not the right. There IS a difference. Keep in mind I'm still using the stock components up front, so there is not a pressing need to do the doors at this time. When I have my 720's in, then I'll do the doors with precision. Easily the hardest part of the doors was running the speaker wire through the Molex grommet, something I've already documented well on this thread.

Oh, bob, you're right about the suede. Honestly through, it looks good no matter what. Without a flash on it, it looks great. I'm very pleased. What I'm NOT pleased about is that I'll have to redo the amp's board again when the new amps arrive, and the Mark amp gets out of there. Right now, its as useful as a doorstop.


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## chuyler1

Very nice work finishing up this project. Too bad about the amp though.


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## quality_sound

Any updates on this? I'm going to be selling my Passat wagon and most likely getting a Mazda3 s Grand Touring sedan (IB 15s ) or maybe the MS3 because it has a hundred extra horsepower and it's only a few grand more.


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## pwnt by pat

looks good

just wanted to comment that I've seen other reports of LMT subs just popping amps. I don't remember whose thread it was, but IIRC, several people had the problem.


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## chuyler1

quality_sound....
You'll have to bench your idea of IB 15s if you go with the MS3. It only comes in hatchback form. 

Fourthmeal....
Not sure I mentioned it but your hatch came out really well. Nice and clean and I'm sure it looks way better in person (suede it tough to photograph). Keep up the good work!


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## Lanson

pwnt by pat said:


> looks good
> 
> just wanted to comment that I've seen other reports of LMT subs just popping amps. I don't remember whose thread it was, but IIRC, several people had the problem.


 
It was me. LOL. So far, the two other amps I've put on it haven't been a problem. That would be a Pioneer PRS2000D ICEpower amp, and a hybrid tube Zed-made Planet Audio 2ch HVT7150.

Gentlemen, I've been very bad at keeping this updated. I do have a good excuse, however...I've been preparing for a move to a new apartment. The car now has Planet Audio tube hybrid amps, and of course the front stage is complete. I even cased the amps in plexi by removing the bottom cover, building a plexi replacement, and flipping the amps over. Its a very tricky thing to do, and its not something I recommend based on the difficulty, but in the end, I got it done. I'll show pics when I'm completely sure that I got it the way I want. 
I'm also going to retire the Eclipse LMT sub, and run my good 'ol JL subs instead.

Give me time...


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## quality_sound

chuyler1 said:


> quality_sound....
> You'll have to bench your idea of IB 15s if you go with the MS3. It only comes in hatchback form.
> 
> Fourthmeal....
> Not sure I mentioned it but your hatch came out really well. Nice and clean and I'm sure it looks way better in person (suede it tough to photograph). Keep up the good work!



Yeah, I'm debating between the Mazda3 sedan or the MS3 hatchback. And to be honest the ONLY reason I'm hesitant on the MS3 is because it's a hatchback. 

But like I said before, the suede looks sweet!


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## Lanson

quality_sound said:


> Yeah, I'm debating between the Mazda3 sedan or the MS3 hatchback. And to be honest the ONLY reason I'm hesitant on the MS3 is because it's a hatchback.
> 
> But like I said before, the suede looks sweet!


Thank you very much. I'm re-doing the whole thing as I mentioned, but I will be reusing suede for sure. It is easy to work with, and looks great.

I was hesitant about the hatch thing too, but since most of the cars I've owned have been hatch-based (Supras, RX-7, 240sx's, Trans-Am), I figured its not too much of a stretch for me to have two more doors. As it turns out, I've had extremely good luck with the car (except for the engine falling out, but that's been addressed), and I like it very much. More then a few times, I've wished I bought the Speed6, mostly because of the AWD. You see, this car has more horsepower then traction, and by a large margin. 

If you test drive, you'll notice the car feels soft, then LAUNCHES forward. this off-on effect isn't as noticeable once you carve a large hole in the airbox, allowing the car to breathe normally. They had to suffocate the engine to lower the NVH levels of the car, but most owners don't mind a little extra noise when it improves the car's performance significantly, and FREELY.

IMO, I'd own a Speed 6 or 3, but not any of the basic cars. But, I've never really owned many slow cars, so YMMV.


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## chuyler1

Quality, when you go for a test drive, take out a base 3, a MS3, and an MS6. Then make your decision. I'll bet you go home with a MS6


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## quality_sound

chuyler1 said:


> Quality, when you go for a test drive, take out a base 3, a MS3, and an MS6. Then make your decision. I'll bet you go home with a MS6


That's what I'm afraid of. My commute to the base recently went from 6 miles to 50 miles each way and I'm trying to cut down on the $400 a month I'm spending on gas (04 Passat wagon 27MPG 13.5 Gall avg fill-up with premium = $5 per fill up) and the MS3 and MS6 are REALLY not going to help with that. The MS3 OTOH should EASILY hit upper 30MPGs and each fill up will only be 11 or 12 gallons of regular. 

Sorry to totally be trashing your install thread.


----------



## Lanson

quality_sound said:


> That's what I'm afraid of. My commute to the base recently went from 6 miles to 50 miles each way and I'm trying to cut down on the $400 a month I'm spending on gas (04 Passat wagon 27MPG 13.5 Gall avg fill-up with premium = $5 per fill up) and the MS3 and MS6 are REALLY not going to help with that. The MS3 OTOH should EASILY hit upper 30MPGs and each fill up will only be 11 or 12 gallons of regular.
> 
> Sorry to totally be trashing your install thread.


I hope you meant that the "3" not the "MS3" will easily hit the upper 30mpg, and run 11 or 12 gallons regular. 

Because, an MS3 will eat gas like it is $1.00 a gallon...oh, and it has to be the premium stuff.  

On the highway, if I stay out of boost, I get around 27-28 mpg. On the street, staying out of boost, I can average 19-20. On boost, well...lets just say you must pay to play.


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## chuyler1

I average 21-23 in my MS6 with my best being 26 (all highway). But don't forget both cars require 91 octane or better. You can put 87 in but it figures it out and cuts your boost to reduce knocking. So I'd say you should be looking at a Mazda3...or a motorcycle.


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## mghunt

Fourthmeal,

I've been watching your install with a lot of interest. I recently bought an MS3 and I'm researching my options right now.

I'm thinking about doing a false floor with a pair of Alpine PDX amps. I want to install a subwoofer in the spare tire. I love how Mazda mounted the spare on a styrofoam riser. I'm thinking that I can invert the spare with the inside of the wheel up and remove the riser. I should be able to get about 0.6 to 0.7 cubic feet this way. This is adequate for most 10's. Most 12's are pushing it in this volume. Not sure if one 10 is enough for me. I really want to retain the spare and not use up the entire spare tire well.

-Mark


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## quality_sound

fourthmeal said:


> I hope you meant that the "3" not the "MS3" will easily hit the upper 30mpg, and run 11 or 12 gallons regular.
> 
> Because, an MS3 will eat gas like it is $1.00 a gallon...oh, and it has to be the premium stuff.
> 
> On the highway, if I stay out of boost, I get around 27-28 mpg. On the street, staying out of boost, I can average 19-20. On boost, well...lets just say you must pay to play.



Yeah, typo on my part. My Passat (1.8T will get all the was down to 5MPG if I stay on the boost constantly but I usually get 26 or 27 commuting but if it gets hot like today it drops down to 22 or 23.  THAT'S why I'm selling it. 

I'm thinking the M3 S GT is the one for me. I guess I can add an afermarket turbo or even pull the necessary parts from an MS3 and make my own MS3 sedan later.


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## Lanson

quality_sound said:


> Yeah, typo on my part. My Passat (1.8T will get all the was down to 5MPG if I stay on the boost constantly but I usually get 26 or 27 commuting but if it gets hot like today it drops down to 22 or 23.  THAT'S why I'm selling it.
> 
> I'm thinking the M3 S GT is the one for me. I guess I can add an afermarket turbo or even pull the necessary parts from an MS3 and make my own MS3 sedan later.



Just keep in mind, you'll still be missing the cassette style 6 speed trans, the DISI engine (Direct Injection), a LSD, upgraded shocks and springs, an aero kit under the car, wider fenders, a unique interior with some sweet seats, etc. I've always kicked myself for not buying the upgraded version of a car, when I had the option. Example: Bought a 1989 Supra NON turbo first, then sold it, bought other cars,..and then bought a 1991 Supra Turbo...man I'd still have it if I didn't get an offer I couldn't refuse.

Mghunt, I worked a long, LONG time on keeping the spare tire in my car, but in the end, I couldn't pull it off. A few reasons for this - 1. The spare tire, flipped over, is too shallow for most of the subs I was planning on, and I couldn't wrap my head around how I'd get it to work while still staying quiet. 2. The weight started adding up QUICK, and the handling got worse and worse, as I was building my system w/ the spare tire in. Ditching the spare (since the car has tire pressure monitors) seemed a viable solution to the weight gain, since that sucker is heavy. 3. My other plan of building a false floor with a sub like a shallow mount didn't work out so hot, but the concept is solid.

In my opinion, you should try to go for what I failed in (and eventually will attempt to retry), and that is building AROUND the spare tire area, a complete box that sits just a few inches up. You can then put in a shallow mount sub or two (the JL is just about out, there is a Kenwood one everyone forgets but is GREAT, and there are a few others out there), and then use the space on the opposite side, the right side, for your very small, well chosen PDX amps. In fact, I'd have probably kept my initial design if I had your amps! Have you seen my pics of my failed design??


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## chuyler1

When you drive a performance vehicle...that added weight is like a thorn in your side. That's why I went the free-air approach with my install.


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## Lanson

When the time/money/etc. allows, I'm going to redo my system, ditch everything but the tube amps (they are worth their weight, and I love them), and go mostly high strength fiberglass on the trunk, all falsefloor, boat-like. I have many ideas, just not enough of the time/money to do it.


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## quality_sound

chuyler1 said:


> When you drive a performance vehicle...that added weight is like a thorn in your side. That's why I went the free-air approach with my install.


Which is what I have in mind but you can't do that in the MS3.


----------



## mghunt

fourthmeal said:


> The spare tire, flipped over, is too shallow for most of the subs I was planning on, and I couldn't wrap my head around how I'd get it to work while still staying quiet. 2. The weight started adding up QUICK, and the handling got worse and worse, as I was building my system w/ the spare tire in. Ditching the spare (since the car has tire pressure monitors) seemed a viable solution to the weight gain, since that sucker is heavy. 3. My other plan of building a false floor with a sub like a shallow mount didn't work out so hot, but the concept is solid.


Take a look at http://ydant.com/subwoofer_construction/

This is what I'm thinking. His implementation looks very solid. I was thinking about building a new floor panel, reinforcing the area above the subwoofer with an expanded metal grill. This would allow the bass to pass from an enclosure below the floor. I know it isn't ideal, but there is nothing I hate more than a loose box in the cargo area, or rear seats that I can't fold down. Right now, I'm trying to decide between a single 10" sub, or a single 12" sub. However, I can't find many 12" subs that will work in 0.6 cubes or less.

If there isn't enough room in the hatch, I thought the PDX's are small enough that I can probably fit them under the seat.

Also, another thing to note about the MS3 vs the 3 hatchback/sedan is the difference in handling. The suspension on the MS3 is completely different than even the GT trimmed standard 3 series. It is much firmer. More like comparing a lowered vs. standard Passat.

-Mark


----------



## mghunt

fourthmeal said:


> The spare tire, flipped over, is too shallow for most of the subs I was planning on, and I couldn't wrap my head around how I'd get it to work while still staying quiet. 2. The weight started adding up QUICK, and the handling got worse and worse, as I was building my system w/ the spare tire in. Ditching the spare (since the car has tire pressure monitors) seemed a viable solution to the weight gain, since that sucker is heavy. 3. My other plan of building a false floor with a sub like a shallow mount didn't work out so hot, but the concept is solid.


I saw an install in a WRX wagon. Search for "spare tire subwoofer" on google. Due to my low post count, they won't let me post links...

I was thinking about building a new floor panel, reinforcing the area above the subwoofer with an expanded metal grill. This would allow the bass to pass from an enclosure below the floor. I know it isn't ideal, but there is nothing I hate more than a loose box in the cargo area, or rear seats that I can't fold down. Right now, I'm trying to decide between a single 10" sub, or a single 12" sub. However, I can't find many 12" subs that will work in 0.6 cubes or less.

If there isn't enough room in the hatch, I thought the PDX's are small enough that I can probably fit them under the seat.

Also, another thing to note about the MS3 vs the 3 hatchback/sedan is the difference in handling. The suspension on the MS3 is completely different than even the GT trimmed standard 3 series. It is much firmer. More like comparing a lowered vs. standard Passat.

-Mark


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## quality_sound

mghunt said:


> Also, another thing to note about the MS3 vs the 3 hatchback/sedan is the difference in handling. The suspension on the MS3 is completely different than even the GT trimmed standard 3 series. It is much firmer. More like comparing a lowered vs. standard Passat.
> 
> -Mark


If I wasn't going to change that as a matter of course anyway I'd be more concerned.    Maybe just a 100 shot of nitrous.


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## xcoldricex

fourthmeal said:


> I hope you meant that the "3" not the "MS3" will easily hit the upper 30mpg, and run 11 or 12 gallons regular.
> 
> Because, an MS3 will eat gas like it is $1.00 a gallon...oh, and it has to be the premium stuff.
> 
> On the highway, if I stay out of boost, I get around 27-28 mpg. On the street, staying out of boost, I can average 19-20. On boost, well...lets just say you must pay to play.


i get 29-32 mpg avg. in my ms3 even with some spirited merging and passing!

you should also invest in a cold air intake (let your engine breath!) and a rear motor mount (it'll make the launches much better)


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## Lanson

I've noticed on the highway the mileage will get up there in the upper 20's...but on the street, zipping in and out of vegas traffic...20 is about all I can muster. And that is AFTER a reflash of my ECU resulted in better overall tune. Before the tune, the obligatory smoke screen out of my tailpipe that showered those behind me was a sure sign that I might be running just a tad rich.  

I tell ya what, nothing makes me feel more pleased with the power and torque of this car then taking it in second or third, running at about 3k, and popping the throttle to the floor. Within just a split second, the front tires begin clawing for traction, occasionally squealing against the slick vegas pavement. AAAHHH forward thrust! Its more fun then it should be.


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## chuyler1

My fav is 3k in 3rd rounding the corner of a highway onramp. Floor it, quickly shift to 4th...then 5th...oh **** better slow down. No squeeling tires for me though, AWD does a good job of keeping me grounded.


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## Astral

fourthmeal said:


> It was me. LOL. So far, the two other amps I've put on it haven't been a problem. That would be a Pioneer PRS2000D ICEpower amp, and a hybrid tube Zed-made Planet Audio 2ch HVT7150.
> 
> Gentlemen, I've been very bad at keeping this updated. I do have a good excuse, however...I've been preparing for a move to a new apartment. The car now has Planet Audio tube hybrid amps, and of course the front stage is complete.
> 
> ...
> 
> I'm also going to retire the Eclipse LMT sub, and run my good 'ol JL subs instead.


How does your front stage sound? Why are you retiring the Eclipse LMT sub? 

BTW, some of your pics don't show up, the deviantart links cannot be resolved.


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## Lanson

hmm,..all the pics should work. There are a LOT of them, though, and deviantart isn't the fastest file host. 

Front stage consists of a nice set of RS cantons, running active. I'm pleased with them, and they'll probably stay there for some time. The overall sound is punchy and realistic, and natural, without being overbearing on the listener. It is somewhat like a great set of MB Quart drivers without the ear piercing tweeter effects. The only real fault I can make about the front stage is the door panels absorb a lot of what the nice speakers are doing, and in effect I lose some of my airiness and naturalness of the music. You can verify this by leaning forward, and hearing what the speaker is supposed to do, vs. leaning back in the seat and missing some minor detail. Really, the only way to fix this would be to cut up the door skin, and place the speaker out on the outer skin, while still retaining the structural stability that the inner skin provides. I have some ideas, but in the end, it involves doing major surgery to a pretty new, pretty clean car. I can't make myself do it yet. I've compensated for some of this loss by carefully eq'ing the 3sixty.2 in small steps, until some of the lost detail made its way back to my ears while at the driving position. Not a bad compromise.

I want to retire the LMS Eclipse because it is a space hog, and the only way I'd be able to rebuild the trunk area to fit better like a false floor setup should, is to reduce the 1.6-1.8 cubic feet of sealed airspace down to about 1.3-1.5, using two more space conscious (but less deep-reaching) 10's.

The LMS Eclipse has a super-deep response curve, getting much lower then most 12's, and even some 15's in about 1.8 cubic feet. Thats a lot for a 10. The problem is that this very low-reaching response is only a 10, and only 1. This means that it uses a lot of air, hits low, but only has the output capability of a single 10. It is also a little slow when playing 60+, but KILLS down low in the 40's and 50's, where some guttural notes are played. I think the in-car response of the Eclipse, ran dead flat, had a peak in the 80hz range, and kept a strong, almost resonant output down to about 50, and then just stayed dead flat to about 25. Because the front Cantons play easily in the 80's, I had to EQ a very strong cut in the 90's, 80's, and most of the 70's out of the sub, to avoid a killer peak. Of course, because of it being relatively slow in the 80+ range, it made for some seriously muddy output when flat, so the aggressive cut made a big difference, at the expense of output. 

Its my opinion that a pair of more basic, less space-hungry subs (10's) should suit this car a little better. The LMS will probably hang around as a home sub, or a large SUV sub someday, or for someone who wants a single 10 to do a 15's job.

Here's what I mean by low-reaching. The Eclipse is the silver line, and it is the SW8000 10", the yellow line is a JL Audio 15W6 15", the Teal line is the DIYMA 12", The magenta line is an Image Dynamics IDQ 15D4v.2 15", and the Blue line is an RE Audio XXX 12". All of these are set in a sealed box, .707 Q. As you can see, the SW8000's response curve (anechoic, of course) is very far reaching, besting even some very capable 15" subs.


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## Smoke_31

Hey man. Nice install. I've got a 2007 Mazdaspeed 3. I'm not sure what I'm doing for a system yet. I'm going to need to rework some of my equipment. I'm not sure how I'm going to fit a DD9515 in my little car and have it look and sound decent.


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## Smoke_31

I have a question. Where did you run your power wire? I've been checking out my MS3 and its built like a tank!


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## snaimpally

Very nice install! Very informative and inspirational. I just got an 08 Speed3 GT and am planning audio upgrades. Your posts have provided lots of info. I ordered a KnuKoncepts 4-ch amp kit based on your reccomendation.

I wanted to get Phoenix Gold RSD65cs components but everyone was out of stock so I just ordered the Pioneer Premier TSC720PRS. I like the fact that they come with a 6x8 mounting adapter and have a shallow mounting depth. I also ordered some cheap Pioneer coax 6x8s for the rear.

I have a RF P4004 amp I plan to use. Also plan to sound deaden the doors.

I want to add a sub. I was thinking of getting a custom enclosure built - a wedge using a shallow mount subwoofer that goes up against the back of he rear speakers so that it still leaves me with usable trunk/hatch space. Both Clarion and Pioneer have shallow mount subs. Anyone have any thoughts?


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## Smoke_31

Smoke_31 said:


> I have a question. Where did you run your power wire? I've been checking out my MS3 and its built like a tank!


Never mind. Already found a place.


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## gohdunlam

nice speed3


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## Lanson

SolemnSinner's Mom said:


> Cool car!


LMAO!

Hilarious.


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## timbo2

fourthmeal said:


> THANKS! Thats pretty cool how the Molex connector can be manipulated like that. I'll explore the doors tonight, and see what fits.
> 
> I was thinking of a DIY setup using the Aluminum cone SEAS woofer, and the Vifa D26NC55 soft textile 1" dome tweeter, run active with some sort of crossover. The (aluminum) version of the SEAS appeals to me because the door will see a lot of water, so the paper version is OUT. The Poly version isn't a sound I enjoy, so Aluminum it is. I was thinking at first about the Dayton, but I doubt it would play very well in the crossover region of 1.8-2.0K at L4. The NC55 tweeter seems the best for me because I prefer a soft but clear top end, with no harshness whatsoever. This tweeter is the smoothest by most people's ears. The unique size should fit the sail panel w/ minimal cutting, and the rectanglular shape should sneak in the space of the sail easier then a big circle. The off-axis response of this tweeter should be perfect for the application too. Anybody use this combo? And what is the ideal crossover for this setup? Active, naturally.



iv had my er18rnx's in my doors for over a year no problems


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## ToFast4yu

Very nice project.

For all audio specialist in mazdaspeed 3, I try to found the complete listing of pin description of the OEM Bose connector or the harness connected on the original Bose HU.

Sorry if somes gramatical mistake, french is my first language, I try to found for each pin of the connector the function and cable color. I have a mazdaspeed 3 (2008). If you have this info please send me a PM

Thanks


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## Jersey Strong

Sweet Car!


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