# Sound Ordnance?



## kkreit01

Crutchfield has a new _Sound Ordnance_ brand. Anyone know where they come from? Google found nothing. 3 year warranty. Products are quite cheap in price, so I'm guessing their quality is low. Amps seem quite large in size.


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## sqshoestring

I would guess a house brand made in China, though near all amps are made in China today so hard to say what the quality is. They don't say what class the sub amps are, that is kind of scary.


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## Maglite

Might be their new "house" brand. 

Personally, I've never heard of them.

Why not contact them and get some info.


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## xelaxor

kkreit01 said:


> Crutchfield has a new _Sound Ordnance_ brand. Anyone know where they come from? Google found nothing. 3 year warranty. Products are quite cheap in price, so I'm guessing their quality is low. Amps seem quite large in size.


Sorry for bumping, and I DO hope you read this.

Sound Ordanance is not a cheap china made brand. It's Crutchfields item. I called about it a few nights ago and got this info.

The products were engineered in England, with the help of Crutchfield and what CF customers wanted. 

They aren't cheap products. All items would be pretty cheap if it wasnt for 2 people before the company sold it, had to deal with it. Think about it. Most valuable items go from the manufacture, to the Middleman, then to the retail person who's selling it. That calls for *TWO* more companies that need to make profit, before the person you are trying to buy from sells the item to you for THEIR profit.

In this case, since crutchfield doesnt need a MM or to buy from another company, it cuts down on the price a Ton!

Now do you see where im comming from? Don't complain about an item until you atleast have tried it.


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## OldOneEye

I'm going to take an educated guess, based on what Best Buy and Circuit City did with their house brands. They both went with established manufacturers (Bazooka, Audiovox, etc.) to help them since those manufacturers have experience managing the design and sourcing of products in Asia (I'm going to assume that Crutchfield has very little of that) so CF did the same thing, go with a manufacturer with a established relationship with all the prime manufacturers.

Not sure how good of a move it is for them, typically you have to buy big volumes to make it worth it... but if you factor in some of the savings (hey, they can have the manufacturer ship directly to CF, it might not be too bad). 

Juan


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## nineball

xelaxor said:


> Sorry for bumping, and I DO hope you read this.
> 
> Sound Ordanance is not a cheap china made brand. It's Crutchfields item. I called about it a few nights ago and got this info.
> 
> The products were engineered in England, with the help of Crutchfield and what CF customers wanted.
> 
> They aren't cheap products. All items would be pretty cheap if it wasnt for 2 people before the company sold it, had to deal with it. Think about it. Most valuable items go from the manufacture, to the Middleman, then to the retail person who's selling it. That calls for *TWO* more companies that need to make profit, before the person you are trying to buy from sells the item to you for THEIR profit.
> 
> In this case, since crutchfield doesnt need a MM or to buy from another company, it cuts down on the price a Ton!
> 
> Now do you see where im comming from? Don't complain about an item until you atleast have tried it.



so you have no experience with these either, right? you only know what a representative for the company selling the products told you, right? what proof do you have that they are not cheap / low end products? just because something was designed in England does not mean it is any better than something designed in the US or China. 

these could turn out to be quality amps or they could be quality paper weights. until someone has bought and tested them no one can do anything more than speculate.


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## Ziggy

I'm curious to see if someone actually has any playtime with this brand... They have a 4x100 amp with some decent numbers for $179.99
Sound Ordnance™ M-4100 4-channel car amplifier — 100 watts RMS x 4 at Crutchfield.com


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## kkreit01

xelaxor said:


> Sorry for bumping, and I DO hope you read this.
> 
> Sound Ordanance is not a cheap china made brand. It's Crutchfields item. I called about it a few nights ago and got this info.
> 
> The products were engineered in England, with the help of Crutchfield and what CF customers wanted.
> 
> They aren't cheap products. All items would be pretty cheap if it wasnt for 2 people before the company sold it, had to deal with it. Think about it. Most valuable items go from the manufacture, to the Middleman, then to the retail person who's selling it. That calls for *TWO* more companies that need to make profit, before the person you are trying to buy from sells the item to you for THEIR profit.
> 
> In this case, since crutchfield doesnt need a MM or to buy from another company, it cuts down on the price a Ton!
> 
> Now do you see where im comming from? Don't complain about an item until you atleast have tried it.


I didn't think I was complaining about an item..just asking questions. I have no experience with this brand. Do you -- first hand? Your post almost sounds like a spammer trying to pimp this brand. 

I wouldn't be afraid to try them -- since Crutchfield sells them.


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## TwinBassDaddy

Did a little Google-ing, and found that S/O is using the same manufacturer (Jia Shan) as Rockford Fosgate, at least for speakers it seems. 

Speaker Electronic (Jia Shan) Co.,, Ltd 385 2 Huimin Eco And Devp Zn Jiashan Cn 573 4645778 | Manufacturer Report — Panjiva

May turn out to be a decently priced alternative to the likes of Kenwood, Sony,etc.


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## ForeverAmped

Sound Ordnance is actually a really good brand. I have the m-4100 amp and it's still kicking after a year of use. Go get one if the others are too expensive.


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## qwertydude

Think about it this way, Crutchfield is known to overprice their items. If they're able to offer these items at these prices, just how cheap are they in reality?

They'd have to be incredibly cheap for Crutchfield to offer it at such low prices.


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## peenemunde

qwertydude said:


> Think about it this way, Crutchfield is known to overprice their items. If they're able to offer these items at these prices, just how cheap are they in reality?
> 
> They'd have to be incredibly cheap for Crutchfield to offer it at such low prices.


This 

Companies don't just give you good deals because they are feeling nice..
ESPECIALLY Crutchfield! I've heard of Sound Ordinance but I cannot say one way or another what type of quality to expect. I however, will stick to what's tried and true even if it costs me extra to do so because RMA and refunds suck ass. My time is worth more then the savings could ever be


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## theoldguy

good job digging up a 4 year old thread


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## peenemunde

theoldguy said:


> good job digging up a 4 year old thread


I kinda wondered how Sound Ordinance was new to these folks  Now I feel dumb having posted anything at all lol


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## amalmer71

Hey, at least the noob knows how to use the search button. 

I've never personally heard S/O stuff, but it can't be any worse than Boss or Pyle, or similar names. The stuff does come with a 3 yr warranty so they're either desperate to sell them or they're that confident in their product.

If I were to ever consider buying their stuff, I'd call them and make sure that's not a pro-rated warranty (coverage diminishes over time) and find out what the process is if you ever do need to file a warranty claim. Not that any of them are "easy", but being an in-house brand maybe you actually ship the stuff back to Crutchfield.

I've been considering their stuff for my son's '86 El Camino just to get him started. He's 14 yrs old now so we have a couple of years to decide.


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## qwertydude

I think you'd actually be pretty safe buying them. I've never blown my Boss A/B amps that I have and I've pushed them to thermal shutdown lots of times, and my class D's have no problem. In fact the only amp I've ever blown was my old Profile California amplifier, the old blue one's with the curved top. After years of consistemtly running it in an enclosed area the caps swelled and inductors were just toasted to charcoal and eventually it just stopped working. I never bothered to try to repair it.

I don't know why people are so afraid of these inexpensive amps somehow breaking faster than any other electronic product. And from reading on this board about actual amplifier breakdowns I seem to consistently read more about JL Amps breaking down more than any other.

So pretty much it would seem that if your amp works right and is installed and setup right it's a rare occurrence for it to really fail on you.


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## ForeverAmped

Yeah. Sound Ordnance is really good in my opinion. I've had the amp for about a year and it never got hot. It pushed two Pioneer 6x9s and two 6.5s and they sound great. Doesn't hurt to try something new.


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## H4MMER

So I hope this helps settle the question. I purchased a Tacoma some time back with a rather impressive sound system from the prior owner. I mean this thing was loud as hell and clear as glass. It Consisted of 6 1/2 Polk Component sets front and rear with a JL 10" behind the rear seat (double cab). When I went looking for the source of all this wonderfull sound I lifted the driver rear seat and found this beautifully installed SO amp. My thoughts? "Sound Ordinance? WTF!?!?) So I went to doing some digging. Turns out that Sound Ordinance is made by the parent company for Rockford Fosgate. Yup. Same as Husky tools are made by the parent company for Craftsman. As it turned out the rig was powered by three SO M-2100's. One front, one rear, one bridged for the sub. I've since traded that truck for a Ram 2500 Quad Cab and aside from an updated version of the Tacomas head unit and finally getting my old Fosgate HXE 10's with my 1800W Kenwood installed, I purchased two more SO M-2100's. I've not done an actual SPL test but I'm guessing from oh... 25 years of building big car audio systems that I would be near the 115 db threshold. These amps are fantastic. No clip at full volume. Of course knowing how to calculate that stuff helps.. As far as the 1% THD confusion is concerned. Most every amp out there claims 1% THD Not 0.1% (that was a system that was debunked because it was established at the lowest audible settings or, 1 watt at 1 metter). Oh, These are a class AB amp. NOT class D. So if anyone is still on the fence about these bad boys. Try them out. You will not be sorry you did. 

Random tidbit. Back in the heyday of car audio and up until not too long ago, all car audio speakers no matter what brand where made by only one of three companies. For instance Kickers which are the low quality variant of Blues are both made by a company called Stillwater Designs.


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## Infinity

There has been more than 3 companies building these drivers for a LONG time. I can think of more than 3 within 100 miles of me (granted, Eminence and Credence were fairly popular builders).


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## H4MMER

There are many now yes. Over the past 15 years or so things have changed quite a bit. It's funny how things evolve too. I remember when MTX was a joke for folks that where serious about their mids and highs. Now the Road Thunder series from MTX is probably one of the meanest speakers you can get. Remember when you would go to Walmart or Kmart and see their excuse for car audio selection and it was full of Audiovox? Take a look at the brands that Audiovox (now Voxx) owns. I know I did a search after I posted and saw the list of speaker manufactures. Holy crap too many to list nowadays.


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## cajunner

Crutchfield seems to have a knack for sourcing good product to put their name on.

If anyone remembers, when they first started this "rebadged" offering, they had amps built by Precision Power with the Crutchfield name on them. Great amps from what I've read, and then they went to a Zed design built by US Acoustics, which was Alphasonik at one time. Sort of how Fultron became Memphis Audio, but Crutchfield was able to offer those amps at a discount, each time.

Now, I haven't heard, ran, seen, or tried Sound Ordinance, but I'd guess if Crutchfield's marketing department was running a scam on it's loyal customer base, the heads would eventually roll because they value their reputation.


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## SkizeR

H4MMER said:


> I remember when MTX was a joke for folks that where serious about their mids and highs. Now the Road Thunder series from MTX is probably one of the meanest speakers you can get.


ehh, theyre still a joke


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## OldOneEye

Pretty sure that isn't right. Credence was making stuff for Kicker (Stillwater Designs) back in the day before they took much of that work to China.

Blues and Kicker weren't owned by the same company as far as I know. Maybe they shared the same build house. 



H4MMER said:


> Random tidbit. Back in the heyday of car audio and up until not too long ago, all car audio speakers no matter what brand where made by only one of three companies. For instance Kickers which are the low quality variant of Blues are both made by a company called Stillwater Designs.


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## Infinity

OldOneEye said:


> Pretty sure that isn't right. Credence was making stuff for Kicker (Stillwater Designs) back in the day before they took much of that work to China.
> 
> Blues and Kicker weren't owned by the same company as far as I know. Maybe they shared the same build house.



Yep. Up until a few months ago, Credence still manufactured what was the original SoloBaric drivers. They also built for a TON of places, including my Sundown s10d2's


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## OldOneEye

They were selling them the solos as unbranded on their website and on ebay. Not sure if they were original or not (they looked like the original minus the kicker logo, but never checked the parameters). 20 years ago they were one of the few making subwoofers in the US (with Eminence mentioned and I thinks someone called SJA (who made Lanzar and some of the USD stuff). 



Infinity said:


> Yep. Up until a few months ago, Credence still manufactured what was the original SoloBaric drivers. They also built for a TON of places, including my Sundown s10d2's


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## sukamto

I do not really like the quality of the Chinese, because not too durable


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## gstokes

kkreit01 said:


> Crutchfield has a new _Sound Ordnance_ brand. Anyone know where they come from? Google found nothing. 3 year warranty. Products are quite cheap in price, so I'm guessing their quality is low. Amps seem quite large in size.


That's Crutchfields house brand and they are NOT low quality products, that being said read the reviews and form your own opinion..


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## gstokes

sukamto said:


> I do not really like the quality of the Chinese, because not too durable


The majority of the components inside your computer are made in China and it seems to be holding up quite nicely, imagine that..


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## omnibus

My friend got some S/O stuff before. By all sounds and appearances, they are quite nice. 



sukamto said:


> I do not really like the quality of the Chinese, because not too durable


It's not 1985 anymore. Actually China has some of the most advanced, consistent and well maintained manufacturing facilities in the world. Their problem is that they don't pay employees crap but for many of those employees, it's good pay for their area considering the only option of being homeless.

I have seen manufacturing facilities in USA and known people working in them. Lazy and spoiled is is a couple words I'd use to describe it. An old auto plant called Warner Gear that made car parts where snorting coke in the locker room was done by at least half the employees there. 
Currently, Meth is a huge problem with factory workers......I don't want a meth head making my electronics but have at it.


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## duckspit

I just installed a set of Sound Ordnance P-57 in my Escape

These are terrible speakers. The stock Ford speakers are awful for sure. These are not much better. The stock speakers are muffled paper cones. But at least they don't distort. The P-57 have more highs and more lows, but really thin mids and they fart and hiss more than make music. AWFUL. Also very cheaply made. Box weighed nothing so I know I was in for it. Wasted my time installing these things. I would be shocked if cost on these is more than $5 a pair. 

To their credit Crutchfield ships fast and the instructions were good as were the adapters to install the speakers. To bad the product is so lame that the install time costs more than the things are worth. Highs sound like hiss/scratch and lows fart away even at low volume. Cant say the stock speakers sound better but not any worse either.


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## tyroneshoes

My 2005 escape stock headunit had built in eq that made any speaker sound bad. Did you change your deck or just change speakers?


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## duckspit

tyroneshoes said:


> My 2005 escape stock headunit had built in eq that made any speaker sound bad. Did you change your deck or just change speakers?


Just the speakers. I know the stock stereo is junk. But the speakers are also junk. You dont want to go crazy upgrading everything when the speakers I bought - the P-57 are meant for this very purpose, stock door replacement.


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## tyroneshoes

yeah but ford boosts treble and lowers bass depending on volume to compensate for their speakers which only sound good(ish) with the deck. With this car, when you just swap speakers you need to put a new deck in (or processor) for *any* speakers to sound good. Otherwise you are not really going to see any improvement except for the addition of tweeters.


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## duckspit

tyroneshoes said:


> yeah but ford boosts treble and lowers bass depending on volume to compensate for their speakers which only sound good(ish) with the deck. With this car, when you just swap speakers you need to put a new deck in (or processor) for *any* speakers to sound good. Otherwise you are not really going to see any improvement except for the addition of tweeters.


Nope. Wrong. IN fact the P-57 have way more bass. UNfortunately it also distorts horrible.

Are you Crutchfield or what? Because I am the only real experience here and you seem trying to dispel the truth based on zero fact and your conjecture.


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## dallasneon

Tyroneshoes isn't saying anything other than the factory head unit is set up to compensate for the factory speakers. You are not able to fully evaluate the new speakers performance because the factory head unit is set up to make the cheap speakers sound as good as they can by manipulating certain frequencies. A good aftermarket speaker won't need near as much compensation to sound good. Go back and read his first post.


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## tyroneshoes

duckspit said:


> Nope. Wrong. IN fact the P-57 have way more bass. UNfortunately it also distorts horrible.
> 
> Are you Crutchfield or what? Because I am the only real experience here and you seem trying to dispel the truth based on zero fact and your conjecture.


No, Im basing it on my experience with speakers ran off a stock ford escape deck. I have never heard S/O and am indifferent towards them. However, I also had the same issues with two sets of coaxials that I was familiar with the sound of. After being informed of the eq on this deck by JL audio, I changed the deck, its night and day difference. Drop the $100 or whatever on a deck and then you can actually audition the speakers. I dont care what brand you use, they will all sound bad off that stock deck.


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## duckspit

tyroneshoes said:


> No, Im basing it on my experience with speakers ran off a stock ford escape deck. I have never heard S/O and am indifferent towards them. However, I also had the same issues with two sets of coaxials that I was familiar with the sound of. After being informed of the eq on this deck by JL audio, I changed the deck, its night and day difference. Drop the $100 or whatever on a deck and then you can actually audition the speakers. I dont care what brand you use, they will all sound bad off that stock deck.


Oh I would love to replace that deck. But I lose everything like my steering wheel controls and the Ford Sync I use for the phone.


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## tyroneshoes

Then it sounds like you have a newer year escape than I had and I cant speak from experience then. They do have adapters that allow you to keep sync, and various other options like dsp units that provide a flat signal using the headunit but it does increase the price (as you would need amps with a dsp since they dont provide power) and Im assming budget is a concern or you wouldnt have s/o drivers. I would certainly consider the adapter that allows all to be kept with an aftermarket deck however. Not sure of the cost and model as I dont know the year and trim of your escape but crutchfield should have it.


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## Weigel21

Sounds like you need a way to HPF the SO speakers, by means of an inline filter, an aftermarket HU, aftermarket amp, or an external sound processor. 

Chances are most speakers won't perform too well off the factory HU/amp.


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## Fernpatch

I can't speak to the quality of S/O coax speakers but the amp and sub I installed in my Ex's car performed very well for the price. They were good enough that I was very tempted to pull them and save them when she left me.


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## duckspit

The factory HU is indeed a peice of junk too. But these Sound Ordnance speakers are just so bad. Anyway, a friend has been going thru this too with his Mazda and brought a pair of Pioneer TS-D6802 that he didnt like. Well ... they are way better. I wasn't expecting HIfi home sound but they are at least listenable and don't fart at all. The SO fart constantly with bass lines in the music and have no mids. The pioneers are fine. 

Pretty much sums it up. I was going to buy those Pioneers before Crutchfield steered me to their house brand saying it was the better deal as they eliminate the middle men. BS!


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## duckspit

tyroneshoes said:


> Then it sounds like you have a newer year escape than I had and I cant speak from experience then. They do have adapters that allow you to keep sync, and various other options like dsp units that provide a flat signal using the headunit but it does increase the price (as you would need amps with a dsp since they dont provide power) and Im assming budget is a concern or you wouldnt have s/o drivers. I would certainly consider the adapter that allows all to be kept with an aftermarket deck however. Not sure of the cost and model as I dont know the year and trim of your escape but crutchfield should have it.


2011 escape. Budget is always a concern but actually I wanted good drivers. Crutchfield said there drivers were BETTER than other brands but cheaper because they import direct from the factory. They SOLD those to me and they sell them hard on Youtube and forums with that same line.

Its going to cost more to return them then they are worth. Last time I buy from Crutchfield. I dont like BS'ers who waste people time and money like that.


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## tyroneshoes

Yeah. Pioneer make good coaxials and those are a good choice with the built in crossovers. I understand wanting to try new stuff. If yorue happy now then all is good. the 2011 and 2005 system was very different and I couldnt even get my ESB drivers to sound good off the deck with dsp and I have used them in all my cars so I know how they should sound. Change of deck was night and day. This was pre sync.

Personally I hate the way S/O stuff looks and any house brand is being pushed for greater profit margin. Thats why I listen to reviews and read data when selecting a speaker.

Maybe give your friend the S/O set and see how they sound in his car. Reason why I say that is because its very rare to hear a speaker that sounds completely horrible in my experience. Just different levels of good.

When I sold my comp car I left a cheap $50 set o blaupunt components (because the fit my tweeter cutout) in there off a $90 kenwood deck and they sounded pretty damn good. Like very impressive.


Crutchfield is great to work with but I dont go there looking for advice. did they refund you? 

If you need new stuff just come here, I could have sold you some new Phoenix Gold RSD 5x7s for under $70 which are great coaxials that drop right in or probably referred you to proven performers like the pioneer you have now.

in the word of 5x7s, speakers come cheap. Drop the extra $20 and read some reviews not on Crutchfield.

High end Image Dynamics and JL comp sets are cheap in this size because they dont sell as much if ever do decide to upgrade

These are a great deal for you car if you feel like moving up a notch and getting an amp and sub. theyre really discounted

XS-57 - Image Dynamics 5x7" 2 Way Component System


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## seafish

duckspit said:


> Its going to cost more to return them then they are worth. Last time I buy from Crutchfield. I dont like BS'ers who waste people time and money like that.


Too bad that you feel that way, particularly since tyroneshoes has helped to identify the problem as NOT necessarily being the speakers but the HU. That being said, Crutchfield actually has a very liberal and awesome return policy. If you can find other speakers that they carry that you want, they will work with you too minimize your additional costs. While they DO tend towards slightly higher prices then ether retailers, their customer service is in fact stellar. Whether the newer speakers sound any better with the older HU remains to be seen.


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## duckspit

seafish said:


> Too bad that you feel that way, particularly since tyroneshoes has helped to identify the problem as NOT necessarily being the speakers but the HU. That being said, Crutchfield actually has a very liberal and awesome return policy. If you can find other speakers that they carry that you want, they will work with you too minimize your additional costs. While they DO tend towards slightly higher prices then ether retailers, their customer service is in fact stellar. Whether the newer speakers sound any better with the older HU remains to be seen.


Its already been seen. The pioneers sound fine. What are you talking about ... this has been proven in my last post. Pioneers sound fine, Sound ordnance like crap in the same car with the same factory HU. You are not reading before having an opinion.

Crutchfield will take them back, but at my expense. Which would be totally fine with me if they were not hocking $3 speakers as a house brand to begin with. No one needs to take their doors apart yet again when they should just be honest and not sell that junk. The whole box with 2 speakers weighs about 3 pounds. Had they been honest I would have got the Pioneers to begin with. The Pioneer and the JL were the other speakers on my list. Crutchfield pushed the S.O. OVER the other brands.

The Ford HU is junk. But you cannot parrot all the resellers and blame everything on the head unit especially when the pioneers sound alright and the SO were all fart and hiss. That people is real life results.


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## duckspit

tyroneshoes said:


> Yeah. Pioneer make good coaxials and those are a good choice with the built in crossovers. I understand wanting to try new stuff. If yorue happy now then all is good. the 2011 and 2005 system was very different and I couldnt even get my ESB drivers to sound good off the deck with dsp and I have used them in all my cars so I know how they should sound. Change of deck was night and day. This was pre sync.


To be honest I thought you were high when you said the adjust the HU to play with cheap speakers. Who would spent R&D money to make a HU that sounds OK with $1 speakers .... but then you are right and they actually do just that.

I will have to change that HU out eventually I know. I just want to retain my wheel controls and Sync. The Sync I only use for phone. To be honest the Sync does not work very well. I have heard many bluetooth built into the new HU's are even worse though. 

I had a 2001 Mustang GT before this Escape. The stock stereo was awesome in the Mustang. I mean no car stereo is ever going to be HiFi but the stang sounded great for a car. The Escape is the worst stereo I ever heard hands down. Just terrible. And everything in the dash is fisher price plastic. As life changes I needed a car to carry things so I traded my fun Mustang for the dumpy Escape.


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## seafish

duckspit said:


> Its already been seen. The pioneers sound fine. What are you talking about ... this has been proven in my last post. Pioneers sound fine, Sound ordnance like crap in the same car with the same factory HU. You are not reading before having an opinion.
> 
> Crutchfield will take them back, but at my expense. Which would be totally fine with me if they were not hocking $3 speakers as a house brand to begin with. No one needs to take their doors apart yet again when they should just be honest and not sell that junk. The whole box with 2 speakers weighs about 3 pounds. Had they been honest I would have got the Pioneers to begin with. The Pioneer and the JL were the other speakers on my list. Crutchfield pushed the S.O. OVER the other brands.
> 
> The Ford HU is junk. But you cannot parrot all the resellers and blame everything on the head unit especially when the pioneers sound alright and the SO were all fart and hiss. That people is real life results.


I understood your post to mean that the Pioneers sounded good in your friends Mazda, NOT your Escape. The Mazda may or may not have the same HU EQ set up as your car, which means they still might sound good OR bad in your car, depending just HOW the HU eq that you didn't even realize existed affects the sound of the pioneers. When I posted my reply, I didn't realize that you had already tried the Pioneers in YOUR car and that they sound great in your car, in your doors, with your HU. And even upon rereading (yes I can and do read, I know it's hard to believe in this day and age of the interwebz) it actually still seems that you have NOT tried the Pioneers in your car but since they sound good in your friends car you are assuming that they will sound good in yours, which is just that an ASSumption.


FYI--I DO agree with you that it IS too bad that you let an avid Crutchfieldd salesperson talk you out of what you already wanted to buy. And I still think that if you could hold back your anger and ASSumptions and kindly explain the situation to Crutchfield, that they actually will work to get you what you want at minimal additional expense to you. I say this because I have PERSONALLY experienced the magnanimity of Crutchfields CS.

HOPEFULLY the Pioneers you might already have or are going to get (still don't know which) are exactly what you want!!! You might not want to believe me, but I ALSO want your car to sound good. That being said, one of the major guidelines of diyma SQ installs is that equipment matters much less then install and tuning details. 

PLEASE know that NONE of what I am saying is to proclaim SO gear as SQ gear, no matter how Crutcfield salespeople portray them. BEFORE I joined diyma I bought an SO self powered sub fwhen I first started wanting to experiment with more bass in my truck. I plugged it in, listened to it for 3 minutes (thought o myself oh ****), tried tuning it for another 3 hours (and still thought to myself this is ****), then sent it back the next day. I don't recall what the return shipping was, but I ate that as I KNEW buying the SO sub was just that-- an experiment. 

Good luck with your install!!!


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## duckspit

seafish said:


> I understood your post to mean that the Pioneers sounded good in your friends Mazda, NOT your Escape.


Thats not what I wrote. I put his Pioneer speakers in my escape. Swapped the SO for the Pioneer. 

I don't mean to be rude but these forums are full of people ranting when they dont read and then arguing about what they think they read etc etc.

Crutchfield gave me an RMA #. Thats it. Didnt address my concerns at all with the waste of my time with their junk product which they know very well is junk.


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## seafish

duckspit said:


> Thats not what I wrote. I put his Pioneer speakers in my escape. Swapped the SO for the Pioneer.
> 
> I don't mean to be rude but these forums are full of people ranting when they dont read and then arguing about what they think they read etc etc.
> 
> Crutchfield gave me an RMA #. Thats it. Didnt address my concerns at all with the waste of my time with their junk product which they know very well is junk.


Please don't forget that you also wrote this--

"Originally Posted by duckspit View Post
Nope. Wrong. IN fact the P-57 have way more bass. UNfortunately it also distorts horrible.

Are you Crutchfield or what? Because I am the only real experience here and you seem trying to dispel the truth based on zero fact and your conjecture."

Honestly, with your attitude and "real experience", I'm not gonna waste my time either…good luck with your install.


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## Weigel21

duckspit said:


> 2011 escape. Budget is always a concern but actually I wanted good drivers. Crutchfield said there drivers were BETTER than other brands but cheaper because they import direct from the factory. They SOLD those to me and they sell them hard on Youtube and forums with that same line.
> 
> Its going to cost more to return them then they are worth. Last time I buy from Crutchfield. I dont like BS'ers who waste people time and money like that.





duckspit said:


> Its already been seen. The pioneers sound fine. What are you talking about ... this has been proven in my last post. Pioneers sound fine, Sound ordnance like crap in the same car with the same factory HU. You are not reading before having an opinion.
> 
> Crutchfield will take them back, but at my expense. Which would be totally fine with me if they were not hocking $3 speakers as a house brand to begin with. No one needs to take their doors apart yet again when they should just be honest and not sell that junk. The whole box with 2 speakers weighs about 3 pounds. Had they been honest I would have got the Pioneers to begin with. The Pioneer and the JL were the other speakers on my list. Crutchfield pushed the S.O. OVER the other brands.
> 
> The Ford HU is junk. But you cannot parrot all the resellers and blame everything on the head unit especially when the pioneers sound alright and the SO were all fart and hiss. That people is real life results.





duckspit said:


> To be honest I thought you were high when you said the adjust the HU to play with cheap speakers. Who would spent R&D money to make a HU that sounds OK with $1 speakers .... but then you are right and they actually do just that.
> 
> I will have to change that HU out eventually I know. I just want to retain my wheel controls and Sync. The Sync I only use for phone. To be honest the Sync does not work very well. I have heard many bluetooth built into the new HU's are even worse though.
> 
> I had a 2001 Mustang GT before this Escape. The stock stereo was awesome in the Mustang. I mean no car stereo is ever going to be HiFi but the stang sounded great for a car. The Escape is the worst stereo I ever heard hands down. Just terrible. And everything in the dash is fisher price plastic. As life changes I needed a car to carry things so I traded my fun Mustang for the dumpy Escape.





duckspit said:


> Thats not what I wrote. I put his Pioneer speakers in my escape. Swapped the SO for the Pioneer.
> 
> I don't mean to be rude but these forums are full of people ranting when they dont read and then arguing about what they think they read etc etc.
> 
> Crutchfield gave me an RMA #. Thats it. Didnt address my concerns at all with the waste of my time with their junk product which they know very well is junk.


Please, show me where you actually typed clearly that you swapped out the S/O speakers for the Pioneer speakers. 

I will admit that based on the frequency response specs (though a misleading spec in itself) for the SO and Pioneer speakers indicate the Pioneer speakers can play deeper without struggling as much. Had you a way to HPF the SO speakers, I guarantee the "farting" issue would be addressed. Granted you'd lose a lot of the upper lower end that the Pioneers can clearly play without as much of a problem. The lack of mid-range may or may not have improved after a fairly short break-in period, but even still, chances are you would still be less than impressed. Proper EQing may have helped, but as you said, you have an OEM HU which was EQ'd to work well (enough) with the OEM speakers. 

Many have been content with SO gear, some have not. Quite honestly, anyone who is looking at Pioneer D series and JL speakers should know ahead of time that cheap OEM replacements won't be up to snuff for them. 

It's a shame you let yourself be fooled into believing the SO speakers were a better deal than they turned out to be. The saying goes, you get what you pay for" and who expects much from $50 speakers? Broke gullible fools maybe?


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## Ultimateherts

Weigel21 said:


> Please, show me where you actually typed clearly that you swapped out the S/O speakers for the Pioneer speakers.
> 
> I will admit that based on the frequency response specs (though a misleading spec in itself) for the SO and Pioneer speakers indicate the Pioneer speakers can play deeper without struggling as much. Had you a way to HPF the SO speakers, I guarantee the "farting" issue would be addressed. Granted you'd lose a lot of the upper lower end that the Pioneers can clearly play without as much of a problem. The lack of mid-range may or may not have improved after a fairly short break-in period, but even still, chances are you would still be less than impressed. Proper EQing may have helped, but as you said, you have an OEM HU which was EQ'd to work well (enough) with the OEM speakers.
> 
> Many have been content with SO gear, some have not. Quite honestly, anyone who is looking at Pioneer D series and JL speakers should know ahead of time that cheap OEM replacements won't be up to snuff for them.
> 
> It's a shame you let yourself be fooled into believing the SO speakers were a better deal than they turned out to be. The saying goes, you get what you pay for" and who expects much from $50 speakers? Broke gullible fools maybe?


This forum was founded on the low price principles. Price does not always = quality!


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## rton20s

Ultimateherts said:


> This forum was founded on the low price principles. Price does not always = quality!


This might be somewhat true, but Weigel21's post hit the nail on the head. First in pointing out that duckspit hadn't stated prior to post 48 that he had tried the Pioneers in his car and second in thinking (without proper research) that car audio house brand speakers costing half as much as more reputable brands would have superior performance. Even if he was convinced by a salesman. Duskpit's irreverent attitude toward people who are only trying to help him is also what has earned home some of the venom he has received in return.

And as I see it, the founding principle of this forum is to take a component on its own merit regardless of cost or branding and performing the work yourself. There is a difference between that and whatever might be inferred by "low price principle."


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## seafish

Ultimateherts said:


> This forum was founded on the low price principles. Price does not always = quality!


Not necessarily true...me thinks that while high price does not always equal high quality, low price almost always means low quality, at least when purchasing NIB parts.

That being said, here on diyma.co, low price CAN in fact mean high quality when purchasing used equipment from a reputable member!!!


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## seafish

rton20s said:


> Duskpit's irreverent attitude toward people who are only trying to help him is also what has earned home some of the venom he has received in return.


This exactly!!! I normally try not to react or even reply to weirdly angry posts, but somehow duckspits replies to tyreoneshoes and then myself just cut me the wrong way…kudos to tyroneshoes for NOT responding in a negative way despite being attacked for helping..WISH I was that patient!!! That being said, kudos to Duckspit for choosing a strangely appropriate handle…LOL

Urban Dictionary: duck spit


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## Ultimateherts

seafish said:


> Not necessarily true...me thinks that while high price does not always equal high quality, low price almost always means low quality, at least when purchasing NIB parts.
> 
> That being said, here on diyma.co, low price CAN in fact mean high quality when purchasing used equipment from a reputable member!!!


No that is a common misconception! If you really think that then you are on the wrong forum... Sonic Electronix tweeters the same as Sb Acoustics, Dayton Audio in general etc. Those are just two examples and there are many more!

Does anyone have any internal shots of their amps?


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## JCDRAC

The word I got from CF today is they are made by their partner in design at Boston Acoustic.
If this is true that would be a quality line and worth the 3 yr warranty.


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## chucko58

I had a pair of the SO 3.5" coaxials installed in my '89 Mustang. They sounded great... for the first half hour or so from cold. But as they got warm, one of them developed a nasty rasp. Let it cool down for a few hours, it's fine. I got good at pushing them just hard enough to start hearing the rasp, then back off so they'd behave. And this with your basic $100 head unit, no real power going to them.

I replaced them with some closeout Polk coaxials and a passive high-pass filter per side. No more rasp.

I can't speak about the other SO products, but skip the 3.5" coaxials. Junk.


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## Jeffdachefz

you can already tell the brand is junk by their pre-fab enclosures and how its designed. Pure garbage.


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