# CarPC Questions Answered



## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

I've been getting an awful lot of PMs/IMs/Emails, etc. with people asking me about CarPCs. Having worked for Mp3Car, then for Centrafuse over the past few years, and having run a CarPC as my only source unit for competition for all titles that we've been awarded, I've been asked the same questions more times than I remember.

I've decided that a post to answer these questions might help these folks as well as answer these questions for those who don't want to ask or just haven't thought about CarPCs for their own use yet.

*What is a CarPC?*It's really just a computer (like the one on your desk, or even a laptop) that you've installed in your car. Unbeknowns to most people, a computer runs off of 12v DC natively. When you plug your desktop or your laptop into the wall, you are actually plugging in a converter. This converter takes the AC power from the wall, and turns it into DC for the computer to use. It's almost as if computers were desiged to be put into cars from the beginning! Powering a computer is easy with the advent of commercially avaliable DC-DC power supplies (PSUs) which can be found at any of the current CarPC retailers on the net.​*What's different about a CarPC then?*There are some special factors that need to be taken into account when putting a computer in your vehicle.​

Heat
Size
Noise
Power Consumption
Integration
*Why are these factors so important?**Heat *is the major enemy of any computer. On the other hand, extreme cold is also a well known enemy. If the ambient temperature of the area around a computer is too hot, it might not even start-up. If the ambient or even the surface temperatures are too hot, a computer will shut down and cease working until the temperatures are back to sustainable operating levels. We all know that temperatures in a car can reach staggering levels. It is for this very reason that hardware must be picked with these factors in mind.

Mobile processors or even embedded processors are the processors of choice in this instance. For instance, a normal Core 2 Duo desktop processor will require 65 watts of power. A mobile Core 2 Duo processor only dissipates 30 watts.

These numbers represent the maximum amount of power the cooling system in a computer is required to dissipate [1] The higher the Thermal Design Power rating, the hotter the processor will tend to run. This means keeping it cool requires more attention than otherwise.

*Size* is an all too important factor when picking your CarPC components. Most CarPC users go with a mini-ITX motherboard. This standard is _*7 cm x 7 cm*_ in dimensions. An option that many users tend to move towards is the micro-ATX form factor (_*24.4 cm x 24.4 cm*_). While a motherboard of this form factor may not appear to be much bigger than the mini-ITX form factor, in all reality, it is quite a bit larger, especially once connections off of the board are considered.

When picking a suitable location for your CarPC, you should consider all connections to be made off of the PC. Things like the VGA connector, USB cables, etc. All of these items take up additional space, on average, about an inch and a half to two inches.

*Noise* is dependent upon the type of processor, the case, the location of the CarPC, and the type of cooling methods used, among other factors. While this consideration might not be on the top of everyone's list, it is a concern for most on this forum. If the PC will be kept in the trunk, it's not as much of a concern. If the PC will be kept in the same space as the passengers, this is a consideration that should be taken into account. As mentioned earlier, using a high performance processor requires more aggressive cooling methods. This is yet another reason that picking your processor is a vital part of the selection process.

Most all processors require active cooling (the use of a fan) in addition to passive cooling (the use of a heatsink). Some embedded processors are designed to be used only with passive cooling (fanless). It should be noted that these processors are generally much less powerful than those that require active cooling.

*Power Consumption* is yet another factor that is very important. Computers consumer power in various voltages, through what are called voltage rails. These are ususally +12v, +5v and +3.3v, all DC. Power consumption is important because one must pick a power supply that can supply the necessary amperage on each rail for the computer components. This can be a tricky aspect of picking components, but it can be avoided alltogether by selecting a pre-built system from one of the many CarPC retailers avaliable via the net. Otherwise, you can use the power supply calculator of choice on the net.

*Integration* should be upmost on the list as well. Will you be able to integrate easily with your factory sound system or your aftermarket one? Will you be able to custom mold a screen into your dash, use a factor screen, or will you have to use a fold out screen that fits into a single din slot? These are all factors that are completely dependant upon the vehicle the PC will be installed in as well as the extent to which the owner is willing to go for integration.

Integration into the audio system is also a major factor that should be taken into account. This is probably the number one issue that prevents people from going any further with CarPCs, yet can be one of the most simple issues to solve.

In general, the analog output of the audio out of a motherboard, is not that great. It's also of an extremely low voltage to boot (on the order of .5v for onboard sound). Certain aftermarket sound cards provide more voltage and better quality, but specifically which sound card you choose to use is entirely up to you and your needs (specifically, your budget). Some individuals will go straight from a sound card to their amplifiers via a 1/8" to RCA y-adapter. If you have multiple amplifiers, then you will need multiple audio outputs from your motherboard or sound card.

Another option, and one that I personally prefer, is to use the optical output (tos-link) into an outboard car audio processor. The Alpine 701 processor and display combo is a great solution here.

Of course, you can preform all tuning via the computer and not have to use an outboard processor, but that is a discussion best left for another thread.
​Hopefully these explinations will help to answer some of the most basic questions some of you may have. Any specific questions can be posted here as well. Perhaps it will help others in their quest to determine if a CarPC solution is right for them.

CarPCs are in the early stages of market adoption. This means that they simply are not ready for the mass market, at least not yet. Not everyone is a good canidate for a CarPC. However, this doesn't mean that a CarPC is not for you. Don't expect a CarPC to be as easy as slapping a head unit in your dash and going on about your way. Basic troubleshooting skills and computer knowledge will help out greatly. If computers scare you, then this probably isn't an avenue you should persue. However, if not conforming to the norm interests you, and even excites you, then perhaps this might be a project to consider.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Hey Jan,
Nice post. I'm now a car PC user and, despite the occasional crash would probably not go back to a normal head unit. 

For those of you interested in Car PC, I suggest visiting MP3car.com and reading the forum--especially the Wiki. It's easy to stick your toe in to the tune of thousands of dollars and then to discover that had you read a little more, you could have saved a bunch of money and had fewer hassles.

Read read read. Oh, and be careful. Definitely read before asking...


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

Yes, one thing to remember is that most of the current CarPC users are all computer geeks (that's a term of endearment btw).

As with many highly technical groups, computer geeks are mostly self taught. They value the importance of research and in self learning. Simply asking which product is the best will likely result in no response or in a response that you probably won't like. This is a hobby that is extremely personal. What's 'best' for one individual is simply a horrible solution for another. The best advice I can give is to do your research.

Yes, this hobby can be daunting at first, just take a few deep breaths and remember, anything worth having, is worth working for.


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

nice little write up. I am also a carPC user and learned a few things from over on MP3car.com. It's crazy the possibilities that come with a full fledged PC in the dash. Personally I run a HU as well as the PC though. Its just a personal preference as I very much like things being compartmentalized (if thats even a word) and in a daily driver with short/long trips and short stops here and there. 

To top it all off, its something I could build. I am not as involved with the DIY audio as many here are with making their own cables and such but building the computer was something I truely enjoyed. 

I think the biggest aspects to tackle or understand for a beginner would be the Power supplies, and integrating the monitor into the vehicle. Everything else is surprisingly simple, and honestly I think the simplicity of it is what might drive some insane lol. Its soo simply that there really is no "right" way of building one. 

It may seem very daunting to build one but honestly the construction is quite easy, as others said its all in the research and component selection. You don't need to be a computer programmer or have a comp sci degree to build one.


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## Knobby Digital (Aug 17, 2008)

I'll be working on a carPC early next year when I have time and useable funds.

I can't bring myself to spend $500-1000 on any one of the 2-din units on the market right now.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

icehole said:


> I can't bring myself to spend $500-1000 on any one of the 2-din units on the market right now.


So, a double-din monitor runs about $750? What can the avg new carPC user expect to invest to get successfully up and running with one? What's the overall ballpark figure, here?

Thanks for the write up on this. I'm interested, but I'd have to have as good or better functionality at my finger tips to really make the switch.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

If you have $3k to spend, just get one of **THESE** and wrap it up!

I came close to doing a carputer last year just to have a ton of lossless audio on tap. At the time I was maintaining 120 desktops and laptops as well as 7 Windows 2003 servers for the company I was working for. Many days, I didn't even want to see a computer after making my way home!


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> So, a double-din monitor runs about $750? What can the avg new carPC user expect to invest to get successfully up and running with one? What's the overall ballpark figure, here?


If you were to purchase everything new, I would say around $1200 - 1500.

For many people, the thought of spending money on something that doesn't even come close to a CarPC in terms of features and abilities, is a waste of money. For others, it's all about the bottom dollar.

It's up to you. 



> Thanks for the write up on this. I'm interested, but I'd have to have as good or better functionality at my finger tips to really make the switch.


You can do anything on a CarPC that you can imagine...unlike most other double din units....


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Hey Jan,
Is there a simple, high-quality solution for receiving FM broadcasts that doesn't require a bunch of code-writing?


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> So, a double-din monitor runs about $750? What can the avg new carPC user expect to invest to get successfully up and running with one? What's the overall ballpark figure, here?
> 
> Thanks for the write up on this. I'm interested, but I'd have to have as good or better functionality at my finger tips to really make the switch.


For mine I spent $820 (plus $300 for the Alpine HU) This price also includes GPS receiver and software. Does not include a hard drive that I had laying around. However I didn't really have budget in mind building it so it could be done for less, and obviously for much much more.

For a general ballpark depending on what you want it to do I would venture to guess about $800-1,200 for a well running setup including wifi access, GPS, HD radio, DVD playback (and burning), bluetooth, heck even HD TV, engine monitoring, and any audio software you wish to run.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

RedGTiVR6 said:


> For many people, the thought of spending money on something that doesn't even come close to a CarPC in terms of features and abilities, is a waste of money. For others, it's all about the bottom dollar.


Right, I can see that. Excuse my ignorance, but will that $1500 also include 4 way processing and everything that goes along with it? 

And what's the ease of use with the carPC vs something like the Alpine HU-processor or Pioneer set up? Right now, I don't have to move my head really at all and I can completely tune my whole car. Know what I'm sayin?


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Hey Jan,
> Is there a simple, high-quality solution for receiving FM broadcasts that doesn't require a bunch of code-writing?


HQCT - but of course, high quality and radio don't exactly go well together..

Another option is one ot he Alpine HD radio tuners and a cable to connect it to the computer.

All depends on the front end you're using and what it supports.



FoxPro5 said:


> Right, I can see that. Excuse my ignorance, but will that $1500 also include 4 way processing and everything that goes along with it?


Nope, that's entirely up to you. you would have to purchase the software for processing and learn how to use it all, as well as a sound card that would handle that. Hence the reason I said that's a discussion for an entirely separate thread...lol

Tuning on the computer isn't for the faint of heart and for some reason, members of this forum have gotten the idea that it's not worth using a CarPC _unless_ you do the tuning on the PC...which doesn't exactly make sense to me...



> And what's the ease of use with the carPC vs something like the Alpine HU-processor or Pioneer set up? Right now, I don't have to move my head really at all and I can completely tune my whole car. Know what I'm sayin?


Like I stated in the first post, it's not as simple as throwing a head unit in your dash, but the concept is very simple. If you can install your own stereo system, you can install a CarPC. It's all about following good installation practices.


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## Knobby Digital (Aug 17, 2008)

FoxPro5 said:


> So, a double-din monitor runs about $750? What can the avg new carPC user expect to invest to get successfully up and running with one? What's the overall ballpark figure, here?
> 
> Thanks for the write up on this. I'm interested, but I'd have to have as good or better functionality at my finger tips to really make the switch.


For me it's about the expandability. A 2 yo 2din is pretty much a paperweight today, whereas a 2 yo pc may not be the smallest/fastest/most efficient but you can get it to do pretty much anything any pc can. Also there's at least one thing that I don't like enough about each one of the 2dins out right now (even if something petty like illumination color) to keep my confidence from pulling the trigger.

As far as price, a 7" touchscreen is about $250, a decent laptop you can get for $400, and add a couple hundred for GPS and other software and other necessary hardware. I'll use an indash EQ that matches my interior illumination (which I already own) for a preamp, and send that signal to a RF 3sixty.2 (that I also already own). The indash EQ will also allow me to retain a knob volume control, and the fader will act as a sub control. Also, there's an aux-in on the EQ that I can plug my iPod into if I just want music for short errands (no boot time) or in case the system crashes.
Alls I need is some free time to commit to the project.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

I am still thinking about doing a carputer in addition to the HU.... Basically use the aux input on my Alpine (or the Pioneer Premier DEH-P800PRS that I am planning on purchasing soon) to take the input from the carputer. I just want a place to store more music than I will ever listen to  I could also add GPS to a carputer too!


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

Back up for some more views and discussion 



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I am still thinking about doing a carputer in addition to the HU.... Basically use the aux input on my Alpine (or the Pioneer Premier DEH-P800PRS that I am planning on purchasing soon) to take the input from the carputer. I just want a place to store more music than I will ever listen to  I could also add GPS to a carputer too!


This is essentially what I have currently. I am still working on building mine up and adding all the peripheral expansions (wifi, tv, HD radio, ect.) I have basic onboard audio out of the motherboard with a 3.5mm to RCA adapter then RCA's ran up to my 9887 auxiliary input. Works great and honestly so far seems to sound pretty good. I currently have maybe 10,000 songs and a handful of movies on the hard drive but plenty more on the desktop to transfer over. Its nice having the music right at your fingertips and simply being able to type in the title and have it play instead of skipping song by song to find what you want. 

GPS is pretty good too, I think my setup (software and antenna) was about $120 ($90 for software and $30 for antenna.) Software setup is probably the most annoying and frustrating to get it all up and running just right but its not too bad if you are even slightly good with computers. 

The front end software is what really makes the carpc sweet, its incredible what some of the software can do. I have only uses Road Runner so far but some of the features in the more developed skins are pretty sweet. Look at the Ford Sync system, its essentially a dumbed down carpc setup for the masses, with the weather and traffic and bluetooth connectivity.


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## felix509 (Dec 17, 2006)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Hey Jan,
> Is there a simple, high-quality solution for receiving FM broadcasts that doesn't require a bunch of code-writing?



For FM radio I have been using the Visteon HDZ300, great reception for HD radio and regular analogue. Controlled via Roadrunner and most of their skins, requires a serial port and a special cable, though..

Lots of them on eBay, just have to watch for the cheaper ones, i think i pais around $100 for mine...


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

felix509 said:


> For FM radio I have been using the Visteon HDZ300, great reception for HD radio and regular analogue. Controlled via Roadrunner and most of their skins, requires a serial port and a special cable, though..
> 
> Lots of them on eBay, just have to watch for the cheaper ones, i think i pais around $100 for mine...


Just so no one thinks it uses digital audio connection, you will need to use the line in of your sound card. So that has to be up to par as well.


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## pwnt by pat (Mar 13, 2006)

felix509 said:


> For FM radio I have been using the Visteon HDZ300, great reception for HD radio and regular analogue. Controlled via Roadrunner and most of their skins, requires a serial port and a special cable, though..
> 
> Lots of them on eBay, just have to watch for the cheaper ones, i think i pais around $100 for mine...


With the cable, I paid less than that. Software was free to boot. I think I scored my Visteon HDZ300 for around 65 + shipping. Best option for carpc radio. HQCT has too high a failure rate (I had two die on just me), plus the HDZ has all the ports built right in, "universal" car antenna and RCA output.


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

Good to hear the Visteon reviews. This is gonna be my next addition, and should be cheaper to add the HD radio to the PC than it would be to my alpine, and if I go and change HU's down the road I won't have to worry about swapping HD tuners.


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