# Very first build tell m what you think



## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

So I just graduated high school and I wanted to build my own stereo system. I had this idea of what I wanted to put in my car but never had the money. I had told several friends about it and they all ended up getting systems in their cars because they thought it was cool. I helped every single one of them, doing the full installation for the most part and recommending what they should get for the money.

Before I got into car audio and researched the $#@! out of it like I do everything I am interested in, I was into making custom lasers and potato guns, and made a couple for friends.

My system will be going in a 93 Chevy Silverado regular cab
The following is what I would like to put in this truck.

Headunit: Alpine 9887 already purchased waiting for alpine to send it to me due to the store being out of stock
Components: CDT Audio CL-61A 25 pro
Sub Woofer: Ascendant Audio Avalanche 15" Purchased
Sub amp: audioque 1200d
Speaker amp: aq 4 x 90 or a used sundown 4 channel 100rms amp
4 gauge wire for the speaker amp and 0 gauge for the subwoofer amp
Big 3 upgrade with 0 gauge

Tell me what you think

I will also be doing custom fiberglassing for the subwoofer enclosure and custom kickpnale enclosures im making for the compoent speakers. I will have pictures soon.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

0 gauge ran to the rear and then distributed to your two amps will be sufficient.


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## zblee (May 18, 2010)

Regular cab and a 15" where did you plan on putting the sub at? I am curious

and I agree with power wire, definitaly do not need 0 gauge dedicated to the amp.

Just run 0 from your battery and split to 4 ga for both amps via a distro block

my first install was in a 93 silverado too but i had extended cab and my install was very very very basic haha, flopped out the stock dash 4x6 for some pioneers , added cd player, added cd changer under driver seat.. loved the 5.7L tho!


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

I will be getting rid of the bench seat and making a custom fiber glass enclosure that sits in between two bucket seats or I will make one that sits on the seats and is molded to the floor and locks in place and will also be made easily removable for when I don't want to ride with it.


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## zblee (May 18, 2010)

ExplsvCookie257 said:


> I will be getting rid of the bench seat and making a custom fiber glass enclosure that sits in between two bucket seats or I will make one that sits on the seats and is molded to the floor and locks in place and will also be made easily removable for when I don't want to ride with it.


+1 for the custom center console, that would be nice, i never did like my bench seat that i had in that truck... 2 bucket seats and a custom center would be nice!


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

zblee said:


> +1 for the custom center console, that would be nice, i never did like my bench seat that i had in that truck... 2 bucket seats and a custom center would be nice!


Thanks man. I will post pics of everything. If I don't find another bucket seat I will mold the seat in fiberglass and make somewhat center console for the sub that attaches to the floor and can be easily removed from thieves eyes.


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## DaylenIsOnFire (Dec 31, 2009)

my eventual plan is to do buckets like my dads f-150 i think it would be pretty hard to get the air space unless you plan on going clear to the dash just my $.02 good luck i cant wait to see it!


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

I got my alpine 9887 and my ascendant audio avalanche in the mail. I bench tested the deck with my new speakers and I was blown away by how good it sounded even with the speakers not in enclosures and the sub sounded great as well on a 300w amp I borrowed from my friend. It got really loud in a 3.5 cube @ 38hz box and sounded really good Im sure it would sound better in a lower tuned box.


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## Criostior (May 16, 2010)

Sounds a lot like what i am building right now. I have a 98 reg cab my self withe the buckets from a 95 suburban. That will give you 15" of clearance from seat bottom to seat bottom. I designed a console box for mine also and to get the 2.75 cu ft I was looking for it is within 6 inches of the dash.










I will be rounding edges and building a bridge to the dash. this is just a mock up I did for dimensions and airspace calculations.

Drivers side is air space and passenger side is my amp rack. Hopefully this will help on your planning.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

How far forward does the box reach?


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## Ziggy (Nov 29, 2007)

my 01 xtree cab... That coat hanger's kinduh funnah... 
wuttever.. :


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## Criostior (May 16, 2010)

ExplsvCookie257 said:


> How far forward does the box reach?


34" from the back wall


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

I have a few updates and some questions.

I have made sealed boxes for the speaker and sub woofer. I have bench tested the speaker enclosures and they sounded pretty good but lacked bass. The Avalanche is in 3.0064 cubic feet before displacement I had it getting 300 rms from my friends amp and it sounded pretty good but was not as tight as I had expected, but the sound quality was amazing. It did not sound nearly as tight as my friends 2 12's which he got really cheap from you can guess where wally world. According to winISD my avalanche has a q between .65 and .75. I say this because when I change the series resistance from .1 that winISD has as default to 3.4 or 4 it changes the Q value. I also will not be wiring in series but parallel to get a load of 1 ohm with 1000w. I'm wondering this because Ive read a q closer to .5 sounds tighter and more accurate but a q of .707 or something like that is supposed to be the most musical. and then anything higher sounds loose or something.

I also would like to know how the size of the room, or truck cab in my case, effects the Q of a sub woofer. 

I know this sub works well in just about any size ported or sealed enclosure but I want it to sound the best for my truck.

I am trying to obtain perfect imaging and I would like to know how to go about doing this with like a laser or something. I am trying to make the imaging perfect because the CDT's even though there not the super good ones, they are the best I have heard and I want them to sound as good as possible in my truck. CDT recommends pointing them to the sunroof / dome light area but that does not tell much for toe in and such and if they should be flat to the side of the kick or more on the floor or in the middle and then angled towards were they suggest.

Here are some pictures of the kick panels I will add more later. The second one was a test I did with cloth and the speaker rings I made.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

since no one replide lol, Ive been messing with the angling and I got a very strong center image, but I am trying to make the soundstage wider and higher so it sounds like it is coming from the windshield. It does sound like the latter but more like it is at the very edge of the dash and not on top of it.

My first attempt at angling didnt sound to bad but the way I have it now is alot better. I just need to work on making the seperation of the music better, the seven drum hits test I played is centered but hard to tell placement on the passenger side of where it is but it sounds distinct when it is in front of me.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Update

I finally got some pipe strap or whatever it is called to help with the angling of the speakers. I saw this done before and so far it works well. I will be using a laser to alighn the mids with the opposite headrest. I will also have the tweeters up in the sail panels even though cdt audio says not to. If somone can give me a reason not ide like that because I want them there to raise the sound stage a bit or is it possible to do that from the mids location. The tweeters will be aimed the same way as the mids or does somone have other suggestions Im trying to get this to sound the best as possble


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

I would suggest playing with your placement of the tweeters before spending any time or money. Sails may look cool, they may be what lots of guys do but may sound like total POO with your system. Just get some pipe the size of the tweeters flush cups and double stick tape. Don't be afraid to try very odd places, play the same source music at first then when you think you have the sweet spot try another. This is the only real way to find what works best with that driver, in your vehicle. Another game all together if you are able to use T/A.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

well i do have time alignment and know how to use ti and placement totaly effects how much to use and Im thinking tweeters and speakers should be angled similarity or the image from the tweeters will be off from the mids or is that not the case.

I only wanted to put the tweeters up there because it would raise the sound stage or what can i do to raise it while still being in the kicks?


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## sqoverspl (Aug 17, 2009)

ExplsvCookie257 said:


> well i do have time alignment and know how to use ti and placement totaly effects how much to use and Im thinking tweeters and speakers should be angled similarity or the image from the tweeters will be off from the mids or is that not the case.
> 
> I only wanted to put the tweeters up there because it would raise the sound stage or what can i do to raise it while still being in the kicks?


Its better to move them around temporarily and see what sounds best before you fg them in.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

yeah im going to make some little things to mount them to and aim them. Im still trying to get the speaker angle right.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Sent payment for the arc audio xxd 4080 amplifier should sound awesome with my setup. Thanks to the seller ill edit and put the name but I couldn't remember how to spell it.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Made a mock up box for testing with scrap it was to shallow so I'm going to add a another layer of 3/4 ply to the front. The final box will be longer and slanted slightly. The bar grill I'm going to buy will keep the sub off the seat. I hope having it really close doesn't affect the sound to much. The volume for this test box is rather small only 1.25 cubic feet I am aiming for 2.2 which I heard gives an alignment of .707. Right now it is probably like .9 not sure.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Now I am starting to think, that the box being back there with the extra 3/4" mdf and on top of that a bar grill that has 1-7/8" clearance, there will be a huge reduction in sound quality due to the seat being in the way but the grill will keep the space around the subwoofer completey open. I can move the seat from 3 clicks back to only 2, as I am a small guy, and this will make the seat barely touch the gill. The new box will be angled in the front, and the subwoofer will be angled with the seat. Also note that as you can see there is about 3/4" of the sub being open to under the seat, and that should be enough for it to breath. Once I have the amp i will hook up the speakers and sub. Havent had time to try messing with the angles at all because of school so i should try again this weekend if I have time.


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## bfb1963 (Aug 28, 2006)

Did you sound deaden your ride?


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

No not worried about that but I will in my next ride. If I have the time and the money I might get some deadner.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

From now on my updates will be formatted somewhat like this due to me rambling on about alot of stuff im trying to make it perfect but I dont get many responses on how to perfect those things but its whatever. I am trying to do it the best the first time not later.

Here is a list of things I have gotten done for the system so far:

-Added a thinner box for more airspace 5" deep x 30" long x 16" high
-Angled the front of the box on sub side only








-Box volume after bracing displacement and without sub disp is 2.39 cubic feet
-Qtc of .711 will rise to like .73 to .75 at most with sub displacement
-Not sure what the avalanche's displacement is if anyone knows let me know I cant find it anywhere
-Built an amp rack








-added an amplifier ground to the frame instead of the sheet metal








-Had a ground loop fixed, that by grounding the headunit to the frame
-Soldered ring terminals to the 4 gauge wiring and installed that
-Ran rca's
-Cut and soldered some of the big three cables.
-Installed box sub sounds even better then before because some bass used to sound exaggerated

Some goodies I have gotten
-#2 (not 2/0) welding cable orange hyper flex or whatever its called from welding supply.com I got 40' comes tomorrow.
will that be sufficient to use for the big three as the most power? I will draw total of 1320rms (1000rms to sub and 160rms for each speaker set)thanks
-Received the Arc Audio XXD 4080, speakers and sub getting 80rms sound amazing and get loud but I probably shouldn't do due no enclosure for the components.
-Received lightning audio 4 channel interconnect
-Ordering a 1/0 distribution block so I can run my friends ap 1500d will give the sub 4 to 500rms to one coil

Things I have Left to do:

-Big 3 upgrade with #2 welding cable will do it in 1/0 if 2 gauge welding wire is not sufficient but that is up to everyone here..
-Add a run of that cable to a distro block then to the amps.
-Find best angles for speakers. This has been slowing me down a lot but I had it pretty good the other day and now I messed with something and have to use a lot of t/a.
-Fiberglass the kicks when angles are finalized. This will be the fun part.
-Bondo, sand, primer, and paint enclosures.
-Run 12 gauge speaker wire from individual driver to behind the seat were the amp rack with the crossovers is located.
-Run new 4 channel interconnect cable
-Laminate box in all black
-Paint amp rack or laminate if I have any left
-Buy a used sundown 1200 or 1500d might go with a 500 rms sq monblock amp if it would really matter. Prefer SQ over SPL any day.
-Tune everything.
-Get metered


I have a problem of the speakers making squeaking noise when I turn the sub level up on the headunit. How do I fix this because I have never heard of this happening before, it also does it on really low notes more.

More pictures tomorrow


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## MaXaZoR (Apr 1, 2007)

Hey,
It looks like your off to a decent start. I would just like to comment on your fiberglass kick panels. Judging from your layups it seems like your relatively new to fiberglass layup. (Don't worry these are how my first layup looked too) 

My first suggestion is to invest in a fiberglass roller and some acetone, make sure you disassemble and soak it overnight between uses and it should last you a few months of use. This will help remove the bubbles and the fiberglass strands from lifting. 

Another thing is that it judging from the shape of the glass you are mixing too hot. This will cause the fiberglass to heat up too much, lift and warp a bit. Try using a bit less or a measuring cup.

Third, before you wrap, make sure you trim all the excess bits of resin and sand smooth so you don't have the jagged edges you see. I usually use speaker cloth when wrapping. Make sure you pull HARD so that your base is nice a smooth.

Besides that, keep playing with fiberglass and it will get much easier each time.

Good job regardless


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Yeah I honestly have a @#$% load of bubbles the first two layers the other are better here is why. So when researching how to glass I had seen people always used chopped matt, All I could find was cloth and just cut it up and layered it down piece by piece. That is what made me have problems and it worked but not so well. Then I'm like why don't I just cut a piece for the whole thing. Did that on the left kick and it turned out a lot better then the one on the right. and you forgot the word brush in there somewhere. Also about it getting hot yeah it got really @#$%ing hot lol but should I use less hardener your saying because I measured everything and used the right amount of hardener per ounce and it always got hot.

Things ive got done.
-I finished laminating the box, me and my uncle did it in this blue. I wanted to do black but he didnt want there to be a seam on the top of the box due to the laminate not being long enough. Regardless of the color it turned out really nice, matches the amp kinda, and protects the box while also making it a lot stronger.
-Finished some big three cables
-ran new rca's

I will edit this tomorow if I still can so I can add a picture taken in the light because it is dark and really cold
before lamination with the blue laminate we used








Finished some big three cables

















some things left to do.
-Finish the angling for the kicks.
-Run 12 gauge speaker wire for everything, right now its 16 gauge and patched together because I ran out of cable.
-And anything else I didn't add from the other list.

After adding more airspace I got pretty close to the .707 allighnment and it sounds incredible the difference from the old box is dramatic the bass seems quicker and digs down deep idk how else to describe it. Basically it sounds awesome with any music and plays mid bass ok because I cut the frequencies from 200 and up on the speakers so the bass doesn't hurt them from free airing while the sub plays all the way up to 125 because i hate how it sounds like theres a hole in the music.

Some questions

Someone tell me why my speakers kinda squeak to the bass only when the sub is playing with the sub-woofer level on the stereo all the way up but as I turn it down so its just music and a little bass it dissappears.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Finally finished the big three upgrade. Battery measured 14.14v idling and amp measured 14.10v dipped down to 14.05v on heavy bass notes. Everything in my truck is brighter the dash and even the headlights. My truck also started quicker as well. voltage before at amp was like 13.7 or something close to that not sure what it was at the battery. Are these new volt readings good or could it get better?

Wiring








more wiring








fuse block








ground 








relocated engine ground and also added a run of 2 gauge alongside.








Box is finished besides organizing wires behind the removable amp rack, running 12 gauge speaker wire for everything, and mounting it to the back wall and floor.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

ExplsvCookie257 said:


> Someone tell me why my speakers kinda squeak to the bass only when the sub is playing with the sub-woofer level on the stereo all the way up but as I turn it down so its just music and a little bass it dissappears.



Nice looking work so far....

Tell us which speakers are squeaking? How they are mounted and
to what? Are they in the doors on wood baffels, metal, ex? I would
check to see how sq they sit on any surface and make sure they 
do not in any form bind. Are you using any types of screws with 
washers? I like puzzles.....


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Nice looking work so far....
> 
> Tell us which speakers are squeaking? How they are mounted and
> to what? Are they in the doors on wood baffels, metal, ex? I would
> ...


The only speakers I have which is the front cdt audio components, are in baffles angled with pipe strapping with towels wrapped behind them. Im pretty sure its the sub making them move because if I unhook the subwoofer channel it goes away.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

ExplsvCookie257 said:


> The only speakers I have which is the front cdt audio components, are in baffles angled with pipe strapping with towels wrapped behind them. Im pretty sure its the sub making them move because if I unhook the subwoofer channel it goes away.


First I would remove the towels and replace them with some foam
baffles. IF they need it... Most doors have or can have water pass
through them, this can in time hurt your speakers. Have you played
them without the towels.
foam baffles - Google Search

Also the baffles will mount in the hole then the speaker screw directly
through its edge. This will seal the edge of your mids. 

The sound your hearing is making me wonder if your getting some 
sort of crossover bleed. Are your mids on the same amp? Sorry I 
cannot recall the rest of your build, meds have that effect.

I'm going to go back and read through your build and see if anything
points to a possible issue.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> First I would remove the towels and replace them with some foam
> baffles. IF they need it... Most doors have or can have water pass
> through them, this can in time hurt your speakers. Have you played
> them without the towels.
> ...


yes mids and sub are both on the arc audio xxd 4080 and the speakers are in the kicks on waiting to be fiberglassed once iIget the angles down. Removing the towel has no effect.

speakers are on channel 3 and 4 while sub is on channel 1 and 2.

the noise is pretty faint but noticble when the sub is up and the volume is down and is quit anoying it isnt stopping the music just is like mixed in no distortion or anything like that it just makes the noise to the bass especially songs like the opus dei bass test and this clubbed to death bass test both of which have alot of subsonic frequency content.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Ok so I went back through and things I would do...

Remove those towels. With the speakers out of the doors play the system
and see if something inside the door is making the noise. Sounds like this
could be a window regulator or something inside the door to me. Perhaps
a latch for the lock or even the little plastic rings the rod your lock rides in.

OR do you hear this noise in the speakers? Sure they are the speakers
and not within the door?


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

I wouldn't play your mids without them being mounted using rags to 
regulate the cone....

Someone had a GREAT thread on kick build and proper fiberglass work
that really broke it down. This would be a great thread to read for a
first time glass worker. I went back and looked at your pics and think/
know you could do far better just by reading that thread. I will see if
I can locate it for you.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

mids and tweets both im pretty sure make a noise which combined sounds like a squeak. I might be able to record it tomorow. they are definitely making the noise nothing else. It doesn't sound bad really just I know it shouldn't do that


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Ok sorry, disregard all the above stuff. I forgot they weren't in your 
doors and didn't realize you hadn't finished your kicks. I'm still trying
to find you some material to follow for that build. I know you can make
them look 100% better with less effort...

So, we are talking about a noise when the system is playing. I am guessing
ANY type of music? You unplug the sub and the noise is gone? This is going
to be hard to figure out until you have the speakers mounted correctly. I am
wondering if those rags in some way could be making the coil be misaligned?
Then again you said BOTH left and right make this noise?


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Ok sorry, disregard all the above stuff. I forgot they weren't in your
> doors and didn't realize you hadn't finished your kicks. I'm still trying
> to find you some material to follow for that build. I know you can make
> them look 100% better with less effort...
> ...


yeah the noise is only present when the system is playing and it has to have some really low bass. bass I love you the squeak is really noticable. Yeah I could of done better on the kicks but who cares there really thick and dont bend one bit and fit good just look bad on the inside, the edges are all trimmed I just don't have pics of it.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Ok, so this happens more on bass heavy music. Do you have single with no splits in it speaker wire from amp to mids on all speakers? Do you have passives on the mid/tweet? If so are you sure the crossover on the amp is set correctly? IE not crossed over too low? and your sub too high?


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Ok, so this happens more on bass heavy music. Do you have single with no splits in it speaker wire from amp to mids on all speakers? Do you have passives on the mid/tweet? If so are you sure the crossover on the amp is set correctly? IE not crossed over too low? and your sub too high?


 ok here is how it is set.

headunit is set for 2 way active plus sub.
headunit active crossover settings are:
low is at 100hz low pass 12db an octave
mid low is 200hz high pass at 12db and octave
mid high and high are set to flat since i have the passive crossovers on the mids from the amp.

amp settings

speakers are set to full and I am using the passive crossovers with them. bass boost is off and gain is set conseravtivly about 3/4 of the voltage it would get if set to max gain without clipping for 30 outa 35.
subwoofer is on low pass with the filter at 250 so I can change it with the headunit incase I didnt like the hole in the music which happend so I adjust it. no bass boost and gain set with dmm at 30 out of 35.

And I know free airing them is bad But I never play it loud. Could this damage them still even with the high pass filter at 200hz and low volume?


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

hey flyonwall9 can you comment back I feel like your the only one who knows how to fix my problem lol, unless someone else has any ideas. 

Today I gave my friend a demo and he said he never heard a difference with time alignment but when the music played he kept thinking I had speakers on the dash. He wouldn't believe me when I said the dash speakers are unhooked. So I turned the t a off and then he said it went away. Guess I have good stage height. Listening for the stage cues I do believe is kinda hard to notice at first but now every time I get in a car without the ta it bothers me. I kinda have an ear for it now.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Please don't take this wrong or think I'm being an ass. But you honestly have no idea how your truck is going to sound until you mount the speakers. The last thing I would do is give someone a demo on a system that is in the state yours is in. Its just simply not done. Time alignment will not even be close to working properly given how your front stage is mounted. 

So, here is how I would proceed....

mount or some way finish your front speaker install, hell with TA I would just put the damn things in the doors and let TA do its job. The point of kicks is to is to make the distance from the listeners as equal as possible. With TA you can make that time much less, so your TA wont be hardly adjusted vs one with door speakers. You get what I'm sayin... Mount your investment and play them as they should be. Once that
is done you can then trouble shoot any issues, who know you may not have any??


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Please don't take this wrong or think I'm being an ass. But you honestly have no idea how your truck is going to sound until you mount the speakers. The last thing I would do is give someone a demo on a system that is in the state yours is in. Its just simply not done. Time alignment will not even be close to working properly given how your front stage is not mounted. 

So, here is how I would proceed....

mount or some way finish your front speaker install, hell with TA I would just put the damn things in the doors and let TA do its job. The point of kicks is to is to make the distance from the listeners as equal as possible. With TA you can make that time much less, so your TA wont be hardly adjusted vs one with door speakers. You get what I'm sayin... Mount your investment and play them as they should be. Once that
is done you can then trouble shoot any issues, who know you may not have any??


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

I understand completely Im just going to finsih them tomorow Im sick of messing with them anyways. They are in the kicks "mounted" as they would be if they were finished. I dont see how that effects the time alighnment from now untill they are sealed up. But I kinda see where your going with this as I interpret it your saying I should only change the angles around to get staging right and not even mess with ta because I should be able to get centered vocals some what without t a right?


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Your not going to know how any speaker sounds until you
can seperate the front of the speaker from the back. That
will make a huge difference, with rage in place of a baffle
your not hearing half of what you will have once you have
the front of the kicks made. When they are mounted it will
also make that unit solid so be sure and screw it to the truck
don't just stick them in a corner, stuff a floor mat in place and
call it a day. Do like hundreds before you and you wont have
to redo or go back and do over, anything....

Once you do that, then come back and tell me how TA effects
your stage. Until then, you gotta do like you have so far........
trust me......


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

BIG 3?? Wont help much unless you upgrade the alternator (300.00 or more). It will only help ground wise but power wise dont expect to get any more from stock alternator.

Get something that puts out 160amps or more at IDLE NOT MAX RPMS. Then you will notice a big difference.

I upgraded my stock 60amps to higher performance 120amps (I know that ain't much, but it was a big difference). Lights didnt dim at all, and amplifiers actually where a little louder at same settings.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Well oddly enough they sound awesome now. I guess I will be blown away by how they sound when it is enclosed right? all my freinds that have heard them even said they were the best speakers they had heard. But I know what you mean about it missing half of the sound because there is an effect to the music not sure how to describe it that every speaker in an enclosure even cheap ones have that mine don't.

Had suggestions to aim at the opposite listeners face and I think it sounds better angled a little more forward but I really dont think the speakers are good enough to get any better imaging. So basicly I think im going to point at the opposite listner and call it a day.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

TrickyRicky said:


> BIG 3?? Wont help much unless you upgrade the alternator (300.00 or more). It will only help ground wise but power wise dont expect to get any more from stock alternator.
> 
> Get something that puts out 160amps or more at IDLE NOT MAX RPMS. Then you will notice a big difference.
> 
> I upgraded my stock 60amps to higher performance 120amps (I know that ain't much, but it was a big difference). Lights didnt dim at all, and amplifiers actually where a little louder at same settings.


Well it did to some degree everything seems brighter and speakers are maybe a little louder not sure. if I really need a new alt I will probably get it used. Could you suggest a few alts that would fit my needs I plan on running no more then 1,480 rms as I know nothing about brands of alts. My lights did dim with my freinds amp but I will hook that up tomorow and see if its gone which im sure it is.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Most kicks are aimed in general at the dome light, that is a pretty
good starting point. If your still able to do this step.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> Most kicks are aimed in general at the dome light, that is a pretty
> good starting point. If your still able to do this step.


well at one point they were like this








then I undid it as people told me its aimed wrong.
but your saying it should be aimed toward more towards the rear view mirror?
they were aimed dead center of the top of the roof.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

You can look around for trucks of your make and get a pretty
good idea what those before you have done. 

Now think of most every car in the world this may be very different
than your truck. Most dome lights are a bit to the right and 10" behind
your right sholder. General speaking here.... You can take something
like a broom put it on some sort of stand, take a tennis ball or some=
thing like that. Get two push pins attach some string to each and 
then simply extend the string to the center of your mid. That is pretty
much as easy as it can be done and I don't want to insult your 
intelligence. But I'm sure this example you can see just how simple it
is, I honestly think you are over thinking the process and letting all the
other BS on this forum cloud your brain. The TA will take care of every
thing your aim doesn't.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

FLYONWALL9 said:


> You can look around for trucks of your make and get a pretty
> good idea what those before you have done.
> 
> Now think of most every car in the world this may be very different
> ...


So I should aim towards the back window but right were the headliner meets the top of the window. I hot glued rods and that worked pretty well and have a few lasers. So I could go as far as using them for the aiming. On cdt audios website they say everywhere what you are telling me but in their pics it doesnt look aimed no where close to how they suggest. If you find a build of somone that got good imaging in a truck for a 1 seater not a 2 seater sq car post it up. I am going to take some time now and look. But thanks for clearing that up.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Also based on the picture above that is a really sharp angle, it would be
pretty hard to wrap. Angle your mid more down and perhaps a bit in. At
like the pic is set your pass side really isn't going to have a good stage
and if the pass side is like the driver the same will go for you. Yourr left
ear will take a beating, done like the above. You will find once they are
mounted properly your radio's vol level will be far less than now to get
the same output.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Can you paraphrase a bit? I think the other side was un aimed in the pic so only use the one mounted with dowel rods as a reference. But yeah i will try reaiming tomorow and post pics before it is finalized so you can tell me if its as best as it can be.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Just angle the dust cap of each mid to the same general area. I ALWAYS
take into consideration if your foot will it getting in or out of the car FIRST!
ALWAYS! You gotta understand TA will do much more than you think. Like
I said you could throw all this in the door and it would sound damn near 
the same. Given your TA is up to that task, some are, some aren't. So, 
just put something in the center of the truck and head or eye height and
aim them via string or any method to get them as close as possible to 
one another. Hell I didn't even aim mine I just eyeballed it and built them,
big deal if they don't match my TA will correct any placement in the car,
so I could mount the damn things right under my knees doesn't matter. 
Just take into account will they be kicked or will people damage them going
in or out of the truck first. Then aim them best you can based on that. 

Really don't over think it and try and get to complicated. If you pay this
much attention to building them they will look great. Hell its fiberglass its
not like wood, once you cut them you can always rebuild them. I could 
cut mine in half and fix them in 20min. You can just google search your
truck then put in kickpanel speakers behind that and you should turn up
enough material to do anything.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Tomorow I will probably try your aiming suggestions if it aint to cold. I also am going to get a sundown sae 1200d v2 used.


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## FLYONWALL9 (Nov 8, 2009)

Good deal. 

Yeah I think doing something as easy as the strings and a boom stick or
something like that will make the process much easier to visualize. Nice
find with the amp. Does your TA work separately from your crossover? If
so it may be worth just trying it both ways, the crossovers in the amp vs
your head unit. Its easy enough to test anyway, it may even sound better
you never know. Worth a try anyway. 

You will also gain adjustability and SQ vs running mixed mono on your 
other amp. PLUS, you will gain the ability to trouble shoot your 'noise'
you were wondering about.

Good luck,
Scott


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

The time alignment is on the headunit along with the active crossover. I can try running the sub active and see what that does because its on lpf the speakers are on full but use the crossover they cane with. I want to eventually do 2 way active plus sub. What do you mean by mixed mono, I have heard it before but wasn't sure exactly what it means.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Just to let everyone know, I purchased a sundown sae 1200d v2. It should be on par quality and sq wise, with all my other equipment. I will have it by christmas. I plan on running a 1000rms to the sub.


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## DonH (Jun 25, 2009)

lookn bueno


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

The sub gets incredibly loud now, and I think it might just sound better. I have it getting 900rms in the sealed box. I am going to do a blow through as I am already sick of the way the seat is. Im going to modify the box so its skinnier on the sub face. I will be tuning to like 23hz in like 3.5 cubes. I cant remeber the Ideal box size for sq but if anyone knows let me know because i cant find recommendations for port area or anything like that.


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

are you using the passive xo's? you have the 9887 so you can run active and won't need them. then you have more mounting options for your tweeters like the a-pillars and you can save on mounting more stuff and running wires.

edit...i missed the other two pages of this thread...wow, so if you said between page 1 and 3 if you are or not...i apologize, anyway, looking good so far.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

I have the speakers in .3 cubic foot mdf enclosures and get a crackling noise to the midbass at semi high volume gains set way below maximum power. The problem is the same the guy had in this thread

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-also-some-crackling-i-increase-volume-6.html

The passive crossovers are 100hz high pass @ 24db

My sealed box has the problem, while the same box vented with an aperiodic vent it goes away. I know it is not bottoming out because vented it moves twice as much and never makes such a noise only distortion when I crank it really loud.

The only remedy to this problem is venting the mids I suppose.

I think what is happening is the speaker is moving to quickly from being sealed and becoming misaligned making the voice coil rub.


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## GSlider (Jun 11, 2009)

Reminds me of my old GMC. It was a std cab step-side that I had 2 Diamond Audio 10's sealed in it. They were behind the driver seat also due to the jack that was in mine on the pass side.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

So I finished the kick panels and ran the 12 gauge speaker wire, I finally took the time to mess with them and finish them. took me about a week working on them 3 or so hours a day.


























Ill post pics of them installed I just forgot to take them because it is dark.


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## GSlider (Jun 11, 2009)

For being your first build, those look amazing! Very nice work.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks, if I ever did them again I could do them a whole lot better because I learned as I went. Some problems I had was the whole mold had shrunk slightly and pulled up the bottom edge. I fixed it with bondo. The shirt also warped it a bit and I didnt have a nice curved edge against the floor and once again bondo fixed that to. But If I did them again ide put dowel rods in the mold so when it dries it doesnt pull an edge up. I added about 2 to 3 layers of glass mat on the inside and these things are rock solid.

Forgot to add that these things sound killer and have so much more mid bass then I had expected. The right side is louder I think it is because the left side is out of phase, hopefully its not because of beaming or something having them angled the way I do. Its like when you use no time corection and the sound is all dragged to the closest speaker but for me its the furthest one which stumped me. I have no time alighnment on or balance / fader adjustments. Ill check this tomorow and if phase isnt the problem then idk.


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## ryomanx (Feb 18, 2011)

I like what you did with those kick panels. I wish I had did something like that with my 89 Silverado when I was in high school. As far as the alternator goes, I would suggest and alternator from a different model chevy that has more reserve amps. Like, I did this kid's base model S10 once. I put an amp in that drew 100 hundred amps. I asked him if he wanted a cap or something. He said no. Next day he brings his dad up to the shop saying I killed the alternator. Start talking with his dad, explaining his son refuse the cap and the the amp we wanted was too big for the alternator. Called the auto parts store, they said that s10 with the power option had enough amps to push the amps but also had the same mounting brackets. They put it on the truck and didn't have anymore problems.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

According to this . . .

Specifications for an Alternator on a 1993 Chevy V8 5.7 Engine | eHow.com

I only got a 100 amp alternator. So I am going to save up for a high output 200 amp alt

NEW CHEVY GMC PONTIAC HIGH OUTPUT ALTERNATOR 200 AMP - eBay (item 130461748804 end time Apr-02-11 11:41:13 PDT)

CHEVY C TRUCK HIGH OUTPUT ALTERNATOR 90 91 92 93 94 95 - eBay (item 250717735010 end time Mar-26-11 05:28:15 PDT)

That would explain why my lights dim when I play the sub at its max. The sub amp has fusing for up to 150 amps and the speaker amp has fusing up to 60 amps.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

Very nice work for the most part.

I think you got a little too hung up on aiming your kicks, but I'm sure that you must have learned a lot from the experience, so it's all good.

An old autosound guru much wiser than me once said that while positioning speakers, keep in mind that they are more like floodlights than lasers. Mounting them to something solid, with good dampening and processing will get the best possible results from just about any decent speakers.

I would recommend upgrading the battery under the hood an even consider adding an auxiliary battery before spending money on an new alternator, but it certainly won't hurt if you do.

Also, keep in mind that music is dynamic, and therefore so is the current that your amplifiers will draw at any given second. You don't need all that amperage all of the time. Voltage is a different story, which is where the battery comes into play.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

I agree because my battery is not very good and I am sure replacing it with something better will help alot. My battery read 14.14v and thats what I get at my amps even when playing it really loud but full blast drags it down to 13.9v sometimes.


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## ryomanx (Feb 18, 2011)

Chaos said:


> Very nice work for the most part.
> 
> I think you got a little too hung up on aiming your kicks, but I'm sure that you must have learned a lot from the experience, so it's all good.
> 
> ...


I agree with you both about the power situation


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Im just stumped as to why the right side is louder I checked all the connections and I wired the right woofer out of phase and that helped a little bit but basicly if I use time corection it just gets pushed more that way. When I sit on the right side thinking it maybe be the angle and now the left will be louder, thats not the case as the right side is louder sitting on that side as well, rather then maybe it swicthing to the left side being louder.


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## ryomanx (Feb 18, 2011)

ExplsvCookie257 said:


> Im just stumped as to why the right side is louder I checked all the connections and I wired the right woofer out of phase and that helped a little bit but basicly if I use time corection it just gets pushed more that way. When I sit on the right side thinking it maybe be the angle and now the left will be louder, thats not the case as the right side is louder sitting on that side as well, rather then maybe it swicthing to the left side being louder.


Got a meter? check resistance on each side, then check ac at the speaker outputs on the amp. just a thought


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## CaliAgents1688 (Feb 8, 2010)

Good info in this thread. Great build!


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Thanks. And yeah I will give that a try tomorow and post up the results. hopefully its a loose conection. I never tried swapping speakers but I did try switching rca's and that did nothing.


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## ryomanx (Feb 18, 2011)

ExplsvCookie257 said:


> Thanks. And yeah I will give that a try tomorow and post up the results. hopefully its a loose conection. I never tried swapping speakers but I did try switching rca's and that did nothing.


the multimeter is your friend. I hope none of you equipment is bad.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Ok so here is what happened with the multi meter. 

Right speaker read 3.5ohms left read 3.6ohms, then at the speaker outputs of the amp on a 1khz tone with speakers connected one side read .27ac v and the other .28ac v. one side was always a digit higher. I don't know which side is which because my amp doesn't have it marked but I know that they are on the correct channels. When I sit dead center of the truck right side is still louder and I can make it equal by using the balance control and going 2 clicks to the left. After doing that I can use time correction and make it sound right were as before,time correction made it sound worse.

I still didn't swap speakers I forgot and now its dark again. Even if swapping them and I found one driver is louder how would I correct this? 

If the enclosures were off in size would one be louder.


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## ryomanx (Feb 18, 2011)

nothing seems out of the ordinary with the meter readings you got... if it is a issue with placement then the more senior members would be better to assist you there. hmmm... not sure if the enclosures would cause it. is there anything that you can tell is different between the two? one last thing i can think off. get someone else to sit in the center and see if it the balance sounds off to them.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Yeah I was thinking maybe if one enclosure isn't sealed as good and the other is bigger would there be a difference in loudness by over 3db because with no balance the right side over powers the left by a lot. I did accidently hook up my mid to the tweeter signal and vice versa on the left side but it was only playing maybe 2 minutes before I realized they were backwards, no distortion or anything it was low volume. And one of my friends agreed that the right side was alot louder. It cant be the angle of the speakers because both are relativley angled the same and no matter which side I sit on the right is overpowering and I cant even hear the left speaker almost. The last thing I am going to try is swapping the speakers. Then I will know that the speakers are the problem or its the amps signal or the enclosure.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

Update. I'm thinking it's the left tweeter that is not playing the same as the right from me hooking them up backwards. All I could hear was the highs attempting to be played by the speaker.

So I'm just going to order a new tweeter and sell the set because I just ordered the hybrid audio imagine 6.5" component set it is out of stock they told me they will send it out in 11 to 15 days it says june 30 on 12velectronics.com.

Another new upgrade I got(hopefully equivalent) is the IDQ12v3d4 with 5 and 13/16" depth from a member on caraudio.com. This will be replacing my 15" avalanche because its just to big. I can drive it fine and it doesn't bother me but I just think it would be bad to get in a accident. The seat is almost all the way forward but I'm only 5'6" so it isn't that bad.

I will putting this in a sealed 1 cubic foot box or a slanted box but from what I drew up it doesn't really make a difference to how far the seat will go back. Since its flat I can just make the seat a little more upright.

I have this in .8 cubic feet sealed box and it sounds really good.

I still have the squealing tweeter problem with the bass its hard to hear in music some times but some bass heavy songs its like a high pitch bass note its really anoying. some of it also plays out of the speaker as well. I know its not a ground loop because I had one with alternator whine but I fixed that by changing the ground to the frame. for the amp.

So what box size would you recommend for my IDQ 12 v3 and does anyone know what the source if the squealing might be. Thanks.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

I have the hybrid audio imagines now there alot cleaner sounding and the tweeters are way clearer with alot more midbass. I have these sealed which im probably going to vent with a 3" hole idk. The imaging is really good its about dash height and vocals seem to come from one central location only.

I have the new box for the sub made it sounds just as good if not better then my other sub it just lacks the low end of the avalanche. I have the idq in .9 cubic feet after displacement of the woofer. I also added polyfill never tried it without it though.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

I would model those mid-woofers in your sealed enclosure and then in a vented enclosure and see what effect different port sizes would have. You might be able to get really good results if you install an optimal length port rather than arbitrarily venting it with a 3" hole. That is if you can fit the port. I you haven't modeled a speaker, there is a guy on here that will model them for you. I think there is a thread stickied somewhere.


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## ExplsvCookie257 (Aug 4, 2010)

yeah i will try and find that thread and if If I do port them should the port be blowing toward the listner or up against the carpet. I measured the enclosures with packing penuts and came up with .2 cubic feet which seems right to me but i dont know if thats even enough space to vent them so I might try a aperiodic vent because i found a thread that showed how to tune the vent and stuff.

I figured out what the squaling was well kinda. When I unplug the rear channels because im using the fronts with no low pass crossover so i dont need them it goes away. I had the same problem with this amp when I had it on a test bench in my garage I had the sub hooked to 2 channels and speakers to the other and when i unplgged the sub it went away.


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