# midbass on the floor vs the door?



## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

Good Morn fellas I was curious what are your opinions on mounting the midbass on the floor vs the doors? it seems like most people here mount the midbass i doors and wondering why? is it because its more convient to do it this way? sounds better etc? I was at Speaker works and few weeks ago and the had some installs pics and a few 







































honda Accords utilize the midbass in enclsuers on the floor in front of the front seats. i didnt give it much thought then so i didnt pick their brains on why they chose this route to do the midbass. i'm interested in doin this has any one here done this and whats was your outcome sound wise with staging and imaging? So come fellas chime in I'm very interested in what u guys think about this.


Thx,

Mike


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

For a lot of people kick panel installs just aren't a very good option. They are typically better if you can do them correctly because they help equalize the pathlengths and keep things on axis. I drive a smaller car with a standard transmission so I don't really have the room to put a speaker on the floor. The doors aren't ideal, but they are much more practical. If you have the room on the floor I say go for it.


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## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

oh ok thanks, but i wasnt refering to kick panels i was talkin about the midbasses firing straight up from the floor installed in a enclosuer paralell to the floor pan of the car.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Sorry, I can't see the picture you posted at work. I assumed you meant kicks. What you're talking about is a lot of work, and a lot of cutting. I personally would never do it, I like to keep the structural integrity of my car in tact. Unless you plan on making the car a strict competition car I think mods like that are silly and impractical, just my opinion though.


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## syncal1 (Aug 11, 2009)

You should talk to Big Red. He has this type of install. On his avatar it reads once you go to the floor you will never go to the door or something like that. I went as far to ask him if he minded that I copied him. He's such a good dude and offered to help me. His was the first time I've seen it myself. I am totally new to this sport. In saying that my knowledge is like a gold fish's peter hahahahahaha


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

Depending on the car, you may not have to cut anything. My floor enclosures consist of 4 pieces of mdf, no bottom, massively caulked to the floorboards. If need be, I can remove the enclosures with a carpet knife and some elbow grease. I did cut the carpet for the speakers and there is a super heavy duty Black ABS speaker grill on it. That thing has paid for itself a week after the install. For competition, the ABS will be replaced with a standard grill.

The enclosures do not interfere with my shifting. I can't feel them there unless I crook my legs back during Cruise Control runs.










By the way, Speaker Works installed my first system.










BigRed has actually cut into his floorboards but he has a Monster Truck and those cabins have air space behind them. It makes for a really nice fitment.

If your car can handle floor enclosures or floor mounting, it may be a way to go. The location makes it way easier to handle vibrations/buzzing/rattling.

Good luck in whatever you eventually go with...


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## syncal1 (Aug 11, 2009)

Rawdawg, Those are crazy! How did they sound? Can you explain a little more on the process that was done inorder to install those pods/enclosures. I bought my 2 C2K 4.0's from there. hahaha


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

Actually my installer did most of the work.

He has the build pictures, soon or later I should ask him for them. Basically, we measured out the driver side floor because it has a trunk release which made things a little screwy and duplicated the shape(reversed) for the passenger side. Again, it's just 4 pieces of MDF angled like a truncated pyramid with an 8" woofer at the top. Clear silicone caulking was "shoveled" in to secure the enclosure to the raw floor. There is no deadener added other than the Civic's stock deadener and some polyfill inside.

Without the ABS grill in place, the enclosure looks almost stealth. With color matched grills, I think it might be practically invisible. The carpet is cut, so if I wanted to go back to bone stock, I'd have to replace that and the stock lining.

As far as sound is concerned, I'm running a true 2-way at the moment(700hz x-over) so it's still a WIP. The midbass attacks with nary a vibration to localize it. My pants do flap occasionally on the long sub-bass notes but as soon as I install a sub, I believe that will be moot. Vocals do get muddled at times, but again, I think it is because I'm running my midrange/midbass driver all the way down. Need to get that Bump in that Trunk as soon as Christmas is paid for.

Without time alignment, my previous system would stage at the top of the dash at best. With the 360.2, the sound is clearly above the dash. It's weird that way.

I'd write more but I'm late for dinner with a friend. Car Audio is fun but Carne Asada is a thing of Beauty...


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## syncal1 (Aug 11, 2009)

I totally understand your point. Asada taco's watch out and get out of my way hahaha. Bro your system sounded rad! Speaker Works does great work. I could only imagine what it was like. Well thanks for the reply. Anthony


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## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

Thanks Raw thats exactly what I was talking about, I'm planning on doin my set up that way but goin 3-way that way the midbass will only have to reproduce midbass freq. what 8's are u using? I'm thinkin about using some Ebony's or Dayton rs180 if u get the install pics can u email them to me or posted them. what kind of power are u giving them? i'm goin to bridge my ESX 60.4 to them for 180 per midbass.


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## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

Well i have a 96 Accord sedan and my car is notorious for the window motors goin out so i would hate to the whole door deading thing just to have to undo it down the line because the motor went out on me, hence the ideal to do this for the midbass.


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## twosevennine (Jun 30, 2009)

If you can fit it under the seat or something like that that is the best for midbass.. no door rattles and normally a sealed enclosure is alot better then a door app for midbass BMW does that from the factory. Check out the CDT m6 or m6+.


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## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

oh ok so are those CDT's good for midbass duty? I know the L3's are old news but if any one has some Dayton Rs180 i'm willing to do a straight up trade for them.


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## twosevennine (Jun 30, 2009)

I have just the m6 for the midbass in my 3way setup and it sounds great. I tested 1 in a small sealed box and it did work for a 6.5in! I hear the m6+ is even better if you seal it.


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

I have a Dynaudio MW170 in each enclosure with 200 watts available to them. Those are 8 inchers and they're only 3 and a hair inches deep. If I ever switch them out, it might be to the B&C 8NDL's. They're only a tad deeper.

The problem with mounting midbasses directly under the seat is that you will be sacrificing stage width, depth and proper path length for a solid mount. Even my locations have that compromise. I felt it was a worthwhile trade for getting a relatively easy and solid install without major cutting and or rebuilding. If I was hardcore, I'd go with BigRed's route of cutting into the kickpanel/unibody/firewall. Far and wide for the path lengths.

sqguy, twosevennine and syncal1, y'all are relatively nearby. You should come to the get togethers that the So Cal SQ guys have every so often. You'll be able to audition some fantastic sounding cars. Dates get posted up in the 12 volt events forum so check over there from time to time.


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## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

oki will make to the next meet, well since im not goin to compete the sound stahe width wont be that big of a deal to mein the long run, i'll go with my Exodus 6.5 and see how they do, and maybe change those out for some kind of 8's down the road. I'll posy up pics once it get started in a few weeks after the holidays. Hey Raw if u ge any free time i would love to meet up with u and take a litsen just let me know. thanks again for ur input and the pics they were very helpful. have a great xmas and new years!


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

Jim (BigRed) had a lot of problems with those 8's in the door. The surface area of the door was just too big it kept crapping out on him when he turned it up.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

bmw does not use sealed enclosures, check out the pics in my 745





































if you do go sealed, make sure you are using the right driver. also if you put an 8" driver or any driver for that matter in a less than optimum enclosure, it will sound peaky and you probably will be disappointed with the performance.  just my experience.


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

I didn't know your Bimmer had floors, Jim. I thought it was all stock + sub + Bitone. Is that a stock enclosure I see there?


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

yep, stock rawdawg. those are the midbass/sub's that come with the car.


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

I wouldn't know anything about that stuff driving an economy car and all...

...just saying.


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## orangelss (Dec 20, 2008)

If you look back in some of CA&E articals their were several cars from the late 90s and early00's that used midbass and even mids mounted to the floor in front of the seats. I think one even won its class at IASCA finals one year.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

rawdawg, i purchased that car when the economy was good, i'm selling it when the economy is bad


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

PJ's used to do florr mounted mids too. I have a buddy who used to hang with those guys when he was in Ohio, some of you might have heard of him- Ron Buffington. He said the floor mounted stuff sounded good but lack some low level detail compared to other mounting locations like the kicks. But they were using the speakers in the floors for midrange duty too. With midbass only, you might get by that problem. But it seems like you are, or will be listening to reflected sound more than direct sound.

I wouldn't do floors if you were going to put anything smaller than an 8 down there. Just my opinion.


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## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

ok i understand, well its goin to be trial and era any way it goes, i'll go over to Speaker works and see if i can pick thier brains on this type of install and how to make it sucessful for my intentions. Raw whats the volume your giving the Dyns? not that I'm goin to use them just trying to get some ideal of what I'm working with volume wise.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

Couple of questions.
1. How long did it take them to install the midbass speakers on the floor?
2. Are those 6.5", 7" or 8" midbass speakers?
3. Is that an actual box that they put it in and then somehow stuck it on the floor?

Oh by the ways I am referring to the first group of pics with the car that has the gray carpet with a black box going on.

Thank you.






rawdawg said:


> Depending on the car, you may not have to cut anything. My floor enclosures consist of 4 pieces of mdf, no bottom, massively caulked to the floorboards. If need be, I can remove the enclosures with a carpet knife and some elbow grease. I did cut the carpet for the speakers and there is a super heavy duty Black ABS speaker grill on it. That thing has paid for itself a week after the install. For competition, the ABS will be replaced with a standard grill.
> 
> The enclosures do not interfere with my shifting. I can't feel them there unless I crook my legs back during Cruise Control runs.
> 
> ...


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

Hello ebrahim,

1. I don't know exactly how long it took as the job was spread across 4 weekends. And the installer had things to do with his family while he had the car. Someone who had the right tools could probably bang out both enclosures in an afternoon.

2. They are Dynaudio MW170's and are spec'd at 8" give or take a hair. They are also 3" in depth. They are not in an airspace anywhere close to what I've been told that a Dyn needs to sing. But they accomplish their intended job. 

3. It is nearly a trapezoidal box. There is no bottom to the enclosure as the actual floorboard serves for that purpose. It is silicon caulked to within an inch of its life to the floorboard. Come to think of it, it might not even have a rear wall.

Some day, I'll get the install pics and put up a build post.


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## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

are u running the x-overs form usd that came with the horns? or running active off the amp or a different x-over?


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

I am using the Rockford Fosgate 360.2 processor for all my EQ/Crossover/Time Alignment needs.


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

I am running a set of dyn 220 with both the mids and tweets in the floors. It sounds very very good. I had my friend do the same system in his corolla and we were able to place 3rd in last year's EMMA. We just got docked big time on subbass. Our imaging and staging scores were near perfect. Width in this kind of install is abit narrow...only pillar to pillar. When you go floor, it is really hard to go back to any other kind of install. Tonal balance is very good even without eq...and you can really forget using t/a because of the very small pathlength difference. It's hard to go kicks because you cannot really predict how much airspace you have behind the driver. With a floor mounted setup...you can contour bass response with the enclosure and that is prior to using any EQ.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

invecs, any pics?


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

Big Red,

PM me your email address...I'll send some pix of my floormounts. My friend's car has the better looking install...I hope I could get some pix of his.

BTW, I've tried floormounts in 2 cars of mine...98 Lancer and a 01 civic. It never fails to impress. The midbass from the dyn 5 is awesome. It can beat any mid mounted in a door or kickpanel I've heard. I've tried the dyn mw160...it has too much bass for me and upper midrange detail is not as good as the dyn 5.

In My 07 civic, I plan to go 3 way with the mids and tweets in the pillars and the midbass on the floors. I hope it could improve on the width and height of the stage.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

< wishes he could get his JBL 12s somewhere in his car.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

^^ plasma cutter or air saw??


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Damn unibody unfortunately. I do have 8s going in a similar place as yours though.


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## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

wow invecs can u send me those pics also i would love to see those installs


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

Ditto on the pics.

My rear panels could totally fit a 10 or 12. And, it just so happens to fall in the "Circle of Confusion!" But I wouldn't know where to put my 4 inchers since my horns take up the space under the dash... 

I was just thinking... if I put an extra set of smaller Midbasses in the door about 6 db down, would I be able to get a wider stage?

Just musing...


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## sqguy (Oct 19, 2005)

maybe i know thats what Speaker works did with the Grand National but it was a mid not a midbass i think thats what i read somewhere.


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