# Impressions of Zuki small Eleets 4 channel amplifier



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

There has been a lot of 'controversy' over this line of amps. I bought one based on the sound in a DIYMA member's vehicle, the aesthetics of the amp, the lay out of the connections and controls, and the experience of a few members in their interactions with Patrick. 

I do not have a huge amount of experience reviewing equipment, and I don't have the items needed to test the amp for power output, etc. The following is just my impressions about the buying experience and my first hour or so of listening in my vehicle (this is not a critical, analytical review). I don't have pics of the guts either (sorry AZ Grower). You may want to stop here if you don't think this 'impression' will be useful for you. 

Vehicle: '02 BMW 325i
HU: Alpine 9887 – active 2 way
Tweet: Morel MT 23 6 ohm
Mid: Morel HU 621 8 ohm
For this listening – I did not have the sub amp connected (temporary – Monitor 1 with two 10” drivers). I just listened to the 4 channel running the components listed above.

I received my Zuki Eleets 4 channel amplifier this week. It arrived a full week before I expected it. Of course it was double boxed with a huge amount of packing material as others have mentioned. 



















Patrick also included the CD set and a little extra 'gift'. I have been going through the CDs on my home stereo (many of the tracks sound incredible on the B&W's). Included with the amp was a simple owner's manual with set up diagrams.

I installed the Zuki on a simple covered ½” MDF board – this is a temporary set up until I get the small mono and my subwoofer. The connection and control layout is my preferred design. I have installed a few different designs – connections / controls at each end of long amp (PPI art series, Monitor 1), connections on one side and controls on the opposite side (Alpine PDX 4.100). 














































My original intent was to connect the temporary board to the board I have behind the seats, but the angle would have made it very challenging to connect the wires and manipulate the controls. I decided to simply lay the board (with another, non-covered board under it so it wouldn't flex so badly over bumps) at the base of the rear shock towers.




























Ghetto Fabulous! Just Temporary.

Listening Impressions – WOW that is the most powerful 5 watts per channel I have ever heard! Of course I have read a couple reviews that the reviewers have bench tested these amps to get a good idea of their real world output. It certainly is much more powerful than the Alpine PDX 4.100 that it replaced (gains set very close to the same levels). I say powerful because I want to convey the idea that the sound has much more authority – it is fuller, stronger - not just louder. 

The 8 ohm Morel HU 621 Mids mounted mid door were driven much harder, but with better control than with the Alpine. The cones were moving pretty well, and it was very evident that I was getting much better midbass output with this amp. I rotated the gain control very slightly higher on the midbass channels to compensate for more efficient 6 ohm Morel MT 23 tweeters. 

Once I connected the tweeters, I was immediately impressed with the tweeter sound. There was a noticeable difference in the definition and sparkle of the highs – I would equate it taking a towel off of the tweeters. The tracks that I played today just seemed to be a bit more alive. For example, Dave Matthews Band, Under The Table And Dreaming, Lover Lay Down – Leroi Moore's Soprano Sax sounded like it was being played in a large room – with the Alpine, I could just hear the sound of the sax, it didn't have that airiness – that live feel. 

I only listened for about 1 hour – this is what I went through:

Dave: #34 and Lover Lay Down – amazing acoustical sounds, guitar and fiddle 'plucks'– Carter Beauford's toms really came out – clear and defined. 

Korn: Predictable – Lot's of energy – Fieldy's bass was extremely defined in the mids – good depth to the sound

Rush: Limelight and Tom Sawyer – Neil's drums were fast and accurate – wide soundstage – felt like being at a concert – this is the remastered album – extremely clear sound.

Simplified: Elephant Sky – this is a band out of Charlotte, NC that I found recently – phenomenal! (website Simplified Music - The official website of Simplfied). With the Zuki, Clee Laster's voice was so life like – very realistic. Again, everything is so well defined compared to what I had experienced with the Monitor 1 and the Alpine 4.100. There are nuances of very familiar albums that I haven't heard before. 

I played a Diana Krull song from one of Patrick's CDs – incredible sounding stand up bass, and her voice was extremely articulate and clear. I also played a cool version of 'Nothing Else Matters' – an orchestral version (not the one with Metallica) that was on one of the CDs from Patrick – fantastic cello sound – extremely dynamic, powerful, and detailed. 

I was very impressed with the overall sound quality (detail, wide soundstage, midbass impact, tweeter 'sparkle') and the amount of power. It was very evident that this amplifier is more powerful that the Alpine – not just by the numbers on the HU, but by the impact of the music. To me, this amp represents a great value as well – I have paid the same amount for far inferior products in the past. 

When I was auditioning Morel speakers in a shop in San Jose a few months ago, the owner was pushing me to purchase a US Amps AX-TU4360C hybrid tube amp. He was explaining that the speakers play what they are told and that true fidelity comes from the quality of the amplification (of course you need a decent source as well). He was extolling the qualities of the tubes, and my need for a powerful, warm, non-fatiguing amplifier. I certainly feel that I have achieved that goal – I spent ½ as much money on the Eleets 4 channel, there is no lengthy warm up period, no delicate tubes, and a much more attractive package IMO. 

After experiencing the performance of this amplifier, I'm really excited to get the small mono from Zuki sometime in March. I am expecting the same level of quality, and the same level of improvement of my sub stage as I have experienced with my front stage.


----------



## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

another believer in zuki  be warned....for every believer there seems to grow 4 new haters  lol


----------



## thebigjimsho (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm looking forward to getting in on this soon...


----------



## norcalsfinest (Aug 30, 2008)

nice review bud! i was excited to read it after you PMed me


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Nice review Jason. I'm glad that I was able to bring you on over to the dark side. LOL!! 

And the Metallica Cello song you are referring to is a group of 4 Cello prodigies called Apocolyptica. They're from Europe and are simply amazing to listen to. Look for their album named "Inquisition Symphony" and you'll find several covered Metallica songs as well as several original compositions. If I had thought about it I would've given you my burned copy that I had in the xB with me the night you were in town. I have the original, but I keep it in the house and just burn off copies as needed.  You can also PM me with your address and I'll get a copy in the mail to you.

Zach


----------



## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

How much are the Zuki amps?


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

You can find pricing at the following website: http://zukiaudio.net


----------



## m3gunner (Aug 6, 2008)

Regrettably, you can't get much else... I sure wish they would post some more info about the amps. Size would be excellent, fusing would be better...


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

m3gunner said:


> Regrettably, you can't get much else... I sure wish they would post some more info about the amps. Size would be excellent, fusing would be better...


ELEETS 4 channel measure 16" X 9.5" X 2.6" and are fused with dual 30A fuses. If you have any other questions, you can always shoot me a PM as I've been running these amps for quite a while.


----------



## kid red (Jan 10, 2009)

Thanks for the review. Interesting indeed that these are 5w x 4 amps. Totally confuses a newb like myself who's looking for 100w+ per channel.


----------



## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

kid red said:


> Thanks for the review. Interesting indeed that these are 5w x 4 amps. Totally confuses a newb like myself who's looking for 100w+ per channel.


Since there is really no standard on how power output is measured they can pretty much call it whatever they want. Also, since there are no printed specs, no one really knows how it's being measured. I don't doubt that it's as good as everyone says it is, but most people will not drop a decent amount of cash on a product that releases no specs. I'd love to try one out but refuse to put up the cash for that reason.


----------



## kid red (Jan 10, 2009)

HIS4 said:


> Since there is really no standard on how power output is measured they can pretty much call it whatever they want. Also, since there are no printed specs, no one really knows how it's being measured. I don't doubt that it's as good as everyone says it is, but most people will not drop a decent amount of cash on a product that releases no specs. I'd love to try one out but refuse to put up the cash for that reason.


That's an interesting point. I've read that the Zuki puts out 175w a channel. So then why not just say it puts that out? Saying it's 5w x 4 and no published specs that i've seen, I just can't take that leap of faith even though some here praise them.


----------



## low2001gmc (Aug 27, 2008)

kid red said:


> That's an interesting point. I've read that the Zuki puts out 175w a channel. So then why not just say it puts that out? Saying it's 5w x 4 and no published specs that i've seen, I just can't take that leap of faith even though some here praise them.


SOMETIMES YOU GOTTA HAVE FAITH...  ALL THE REVIEWS HAVE BEEN GREAT AND THE ONLY NEGATIVES HAVE BEEN DOUBTS MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE POWER RATINGS.... I HAVE BOUGHT ONE AND AM ANXIOULSY AWAITING IT. PART OF THE REASON IS NOT THE JUST THE REVIEWS BUT THE REVIEWERS REPUTATION AS WELL.... GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR PROJECTS, ROB.


----------



## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Wish I could afford to get zukified


----------



## kid red (Jan 10, 2009)

low2001gmc said:


> SOMETIMES YOU GOTTA HAVE FAITH...  ALL THE REVIEWS HAVE BEEN GREAT AND THE ONLY NEGATIVES HAVE BEEN DOUBTS MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE POWER RATINGS.... I HAVE BOUGHT ONE AND AM ANXIOULSY AWAITING IT. PART OF THE REASON IS NOT THE JUST THE REVIEWS BUT THE REVIEWERS REPUTATION AS WELL.... GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR PROJECTS, ROB.


I look forward to your review


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

kid red said:


> Thanks for the review. Interesting indeed that these are 5w x 4 amps. Totally confuses a newb like myself who's looking for 100w+ per channel.


Typically as an amp outputs more of its power it will drop in distortion relative to that power output level and impedance, up to a certain point, then it will start rising and depending on the amp, the difference in power between that minimum THD point and 1% can huge.

Here's a pretty good example chart of power output versus THD for 2,4,8 ohms.











One reason I'm assuming that he rates the amps that way is because music on a speaker can be a much more demanding load from the amps point of view then a sine wave on a resistive load so what good is it to have that RMS number.

Audiograph - Home of the PowerCube


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

HIS4 and kid red - I know exactly how you feel - very difficult to buy based on some subjective comments on how a piece of equipment performs when it seems the empirical evidence is not supporting those conclusions. I had the good fortune to hear this amp prior to buying. An incredibly cool DIY member (boostedrex) agreed to drive over 3 hours round trip to meet up with me in northern California when I was out there for a business trip. I was auditioning the SI Mag, but I was lucky enough to audition the zuki in the process. 

My audition wasn't perfect though – he had a 4 channel Eleets on a pair of tweets and a pair of midranges and another 4 channel bridged to a pair of 6.5” drivers. We didn't drive the speakers very hard, but I could perceive the amount of power on tap. The quality of sound was astounding – of course, this was a vehicle with very good components and a very good install. I knew that when I purchased and installed in my car, I would have a two way set up on one amp, I basically had to guess as to how it would sound. 

Another thing I understand concerning the 'ratings' issue – the lack of information about the amps. I sent you to Zukiaudio.net and you were disappointed. I am a huge brochure guy – I have brochures of equipment I couldn't possibly buy (I used to have a Stereophile subscription $20K amps). I like reading the marketing material of the quality of the equipment and the specifications, etc. You just won't get that on Zuki's site. Of course I am coming from the position of a satisfied customer, not someone who is on the fence and not sure if they should make the investment. If Patrick had written a few flattering things and posted the 'specs' that he has written in his owner's manual, that wouldn't have made me sure that I was making a good decision. 

I never heard of Zuki amps before I listened to one in Zach's car. I read some reviews afterward (DIY and other sites – typed zuki in Google) and decided to sell my Alpine and my JL to purchase two Zuki's. I didn't listen to an Alpine 9887 prior to purchasing and I listened to one set of Morel's in a vehicle prior to purchasing (bad install – played extremely loud). It is difficult to properly audition mobile equipment prior to the purchase (a little easier in home audio), you can listen to it on the board, but that doesn't come close to an in-car experience – especially in your car with your other components.

Another cool thing about my purchase is that I feel that this is the amp I'm going to keep. I don't feel that I could improve on the sound unless I spent thousands more – and then you are in the area of diminishing returns. I have been a huge Genesis fan (never heard them – just seeing the reputation of the company, the build quality, and reading the build logs of the guys that use them). I almost purchased a Profile 4 based on what some guys told me about the way they sounded – this would have been 50 x 4 – I was just hoping that it would be powerful enough. This amp retails for $800 – I have never heard it, but I can't believe that it would sound better in my car than this Zuki. 

My comment on the RMS issue: 
1)If Patrick had stated that his amp produces 250 watts RMS per channel – and it was benched at *175 watts RMS per channel – it would be considered false advertising – a lynch mob would be formed.

2)If Patrick had stated that his amp produces 100 watts RMS per channel – and it was benched at *175 watts RMS per channel – than it would be a bonus – wow, I'm getting more than what I thought I was getting (birth sheets for Alpine 4.100 – often they are 'benched' at about 128x4).

3)Patrick states that the amp puts out 5 watts per channel at a certain THD – this isn't false advertising – it certainly does put out 5 watts per channel + a few more. I understand that if your tweeters can handle 75 watts per channel, than it would make you wary of buying something that could possibly do far greater than that (in my instance – the Morels can probably handle the full power of this amp – so not really fair for me to diminish this concern). If your tweets handle 75 watts, and you are not turning up the gains all the way and twisting the volume all the way – you should still experience incredible sound quality and a great deal of head room with this amp. 
*I'm picking a number that I have seen in a review as an approximation of the power of the Zuki – I did not bench test it myself.

Finally (I know – when is he going to stop), I mentioned in my review the guy that was pushing the tube amp from US Amps – I complained to him (because he was blowing me away with an incredibly loud (75w x 4) amp that sounded amazing on a set of Morel Elates– totally shattering what I thought was good sound) that in the 20 years that I have been involved with this hobby – I have bought and sold so many pieces of equipment – I have lost a ton of money over the years – selling for ½ of what I paid. He explained that he experienced that as well, but at some point, you get a few good pieces (doesn't have to be the most expensive equipment – getting the best value is a great thing!), and you will feel satisfied. I didn't think that was possible – as soon as I purchased, installed, and listened for a little while – I would get bored with it or read a build log where someone is extolling the qualities of the new …..... and I would figure out how to purchase it. I am extremely happy with my Morels and I am extremely happy with this Zuki amp. I don't see me ever getting rid of these pieces of equipment (still undecided about the 9887 – I really liked Zach's DRZ ). 

As I mentioned – I am purchasing the Zuki small mono (sending out the MO today) without even seeing a picture of it – I have the specification of 15 watts x 1 and the performance of the 4 channel as my reference. I believe that the mono amp on a SI Mag will complete my system – and hopefully that will be it – I will start listening to music for it's own merit and enjoyment instead of always critically listening to evaluate the quality of my components.


----------



## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

I have no issue with underrating whatever. I'd just like to know what those rating are based off. The spec given is so incomplete it is basically useless. Any meaningful power rating includes power output over a defined bandwidth with an associated THD. Why is it such a big deal to keep that information from the customer? Are those specs included with the amp when you buy it? I think those are things that should be given to the customer. If the amps are really putting out 175W/ch like some have measured, what benefit is there to rate them at 5W/ch?

So it's not really the actual spec that's important but the motive for not providing it. That's what makes people second guess their decision to buy these amps.


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

HIS4 said:


> I have no issue with underrating whatever. I'd just like to know what those rating are based off. The spec given is so incomplete it is basically useless. Any meaningful power rating includes power output over a defined bandwidth with an associated THD. Why is it such a big deal to keep that information from the customer? Are those specs included with the amp when you buy it? I think those are things that should be given to the customer. If the amps are really putting out 175W/ch like some have measured, what benefit is there to rate them at 5W/ch?
> 
> So it's not really the actual spec that's important but the motive for not providing it. That's what makes people second guess their decision to buy these amps.


I know this is going to sound odd to most people, but nothing is being hidden/kept from potential customers. And no, there are no additional specs listed in the product manual you get when you buy an amp from Patrick. The thing is, Patrick is a hard core home audio guy and his goal is to reproduce a signal with the lowest amount of distortion possible. That is why his amps are rated the way they are. He isn't running them up until the clipping point to get power measurements. He sets a tolerable stopping point for THD in a signal and runs the amps up to that point. That is where he takes his measurements. This is night and day different than pretty much every other amp manufacturer on the market. It's simply a different way of thinking than what we're all used to. Does that make it a bad thing? No, it's just different than the norm.

What you're seeing when you see the bench testing of Zuki amps at 175 watts per channel (for example) is the amp being driven up until the point of clipping or until distortion rises above 1%. That is a different way than they are rated by Patrick. It's not that one is incorrect, it's just taking measurements from different points on the same "curve" as it were.

If you ever have questions about his amps, email Patrick. He is always very forthcoming about any details you are curious about. The only time he gets annoyed is when people get hung up about power ratings. If you email him asking about damping factor, signal to noise ratio, channel seperation, etc..... he'll answer you in great detail. Or ask him why he designs, rates, sells his amps the way he does and you'll get the same in depth answer. When you ask him about power, he'll answer with "my amps will power those drivers just fine" or "I don't think that this amp will power those drivers sufficiently" (the latter referring to an ELEETS 4 channel powering an 18" sub or something similar). I have yet to see a driver that the ELEETS 4 channel wouldn't drive beautifully. I'm talking about tweets, mids, midbass, small subs here as I don't own any large subs. I wouldn't expect anything short of a dedicated sub amp to push a large sub anyway. 

Hopefully this will answer some of the questions/concerns that were brought up in the last several posts. And thanks for the compliments Jason, you are far too kind.

Zach


----------



## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> You can find pricing at the following website: Amplifiers



Thanks a lot.


----------



## low2001gmc (Aug 27, 2008)

Boostedrex said:


> Nice review Jason. I'm glad that I was able to bring you on over to the dark side. LOL!!
> 
> And the Metallica Cello song you are referring to is a group of 4 Cello prodigies called Apocolyptica. They're from Europe and are simply amazing to listen to. Look for their album named "Inquisition Symphony" and you'll find several covered Metallica songs as well as several original compositions. If I had thought about it I would've given you my burned copy that I had in the xB with me the night you were in town. I have the original, but I keep it in the house and just burn off copies as needed.  You can also PM me with your address and I'll get a copy in the mail to you.
> 
> Zach


I AM AWAITING MY ZUKI I BOUGHT FROM QUALITY_SOUND TO GET ZUKIFIED AND WOULD APPRECIATE A COPY MYSELF. CAN I PM MY ADDRESS TO YOU? IF SO, HERE IT IS...  ROB BARBOSA/PO BOX 1478/LYTLE, TEXAS 78052.


----------



## HIS4 (Oct 6, 2005)

Well, I did email Patrick and did get a quick response on my questions. Unfortunately, the Zuki amps will not work for my application for various reasons so I will have to find something else.


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

HIS4 said:


> Well, I did email Patrick and did get a quick response on my questions. Unfortunately, the Zuki amps will not work for my application for various reasons so I will have to find something else.


Glad to hear that you got a quick response. Though I totally expected that. Best of luck in finding what amps will work for your application though.


----------



## kid red (Jan 10, 2009)

bertholomey and Boostedrex- Thanks for the explanation(s). My disadvantage is knowledge. I simply don't know enough about sound/electrical parameters and ratings enough to understand the Zuki. As a novice/newb, I just understand that speakers A that require or sound good with 120w needs an amp that can provide power/current-whatever to achieve it's potential. So when I see an amp that outputs 5w, I immediately think, not near enough output for me and look away. Obviously the Zuki is not aimed at someone of my lack of knowledge and understanding but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want such an amp.

Just for knowledge sake, I have Morel Tempos at 120w each in a two way system. Would the Zuki match well compared to my top choice of the Arc KS300.2? I was going to run the Arc 1000.1 to my sub (Mach5 IXL10) which I run at 1ohm. Granted I just read that running at 1ohm decreases sound quality, but I run a Sundown 1000D and I'm happy with the output and SQ of the sub. I am not happy with the comp amp so I'm looking to replace both front and sub amp (I like to match). With all of these large output numbers, it's hard for me to fathom the 5w or the 15w being enough. It's not about belief, it's about understanding I guess.


----------



## low2001gmc (Aug 27, 2008)

matching brands is nice but perhaps a compromise of just matching colors and going for more sq would be better. in my opinion it would and if you are happy with the sundown 1000d on your sub, all you would need would be a replacement comp amp and it would also cost less than replacing both.

as for the power ratings, maybe this will help you better understand. zuki rates his amps at .0005 thd at 4 ohms while most rate theirs at 1.0 thd. by rating them at a higher thd, they get higher power ratings which make them more attractive to the power hungry folks. for us sql guys, we get turned on by zuki's ratings and also appreciate the power of it, making it all a beauty...


----------



## kid red (Jan 10, 2009)

low2001gmc said:


> matching brands is nice but perhaps a compromise of just matching colors and going for more sq would be better. in my opinion it would and if you are happy with the sundown 1000d on your sub, all you would need would be a replacement comp amp and it would also cost less than replacing both.
> 
> as for the power ratings, maybe this will help you better understand. zuki rates his amps at .*0005 thd at 4 ohms while most rate theirs at 1.0 thd*. by rating them at a higher thd, they get higher power ratings which make them more attractive to the power hungry folks. for us sql guys, we get turned on by zuki's ratings and also appreciate the power of it, making it all a beauty...


That makes sense to me, a lot actually. I just wish there was a relative rating at 1% THD for comparison sake for us simple folk. Do you know if there's a variable crossover for the hi-pass? I wish the website had more info and photos. 

As for my sub amp, in another thread it's suggested that me running at 1ohm isn't good for sound. So I would have to replace the amp at some point to get higher output at 4ohms, but maybe just matching colors (black) would be enough.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

low2001gmc said:


> matching brands is nice but perhaps a compromise of just matching colors and going for more sq would be better. in my opinion it would and if you are happy with the sundown 1000d on your sub, all you would need would be a replacement comp amp and it would also cost less than replacing both.
> 
> *as for the power ratings, maybe this will help you better understand. zuki rates his amps at .0005 thd at 4 ohms while most rate theirs at 1.0 thd. by rating them at a higher thd, they get higher power ratings which make them more attractive to the power hungry folks. for us sql guys, we get turned on by zuki's ratings and also appreciate the power of it, making it all a beauty..*.


.005%*

By the way, that would equate to the first harmonic distortion coming in at -86dB. Try this test out and see what that sounds like.

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm
Audibility Of Distortion


----------



## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

low2001gmc said:


> as for the power ratings, maybe this will help you better understand. zuki rates his amps at .0005 thd at 4 ohms while most rate theirs at 1.0 thd. by rating them at a higher thd, they get higher power ratings which make them more attractive to the power hungry folks. for us sql guys, we get turned on by zuki's ratings and also appreciate the power of it, making it all a beauty...


You get turned on by a meaningless rating? Why? Unless you plan to listen to these amps with gains set at minimum and at 5 clicks out of 50 on the volume dial those THD ratings are absolutely meaningless, not that they aren't largely meaningless anyway. It's a goofy marketing ploy. This is like advertising that a Hummer H1 will get 30 mpg but neglecting to mention that it was tested going down a 10% grade. I much prefer my products to be rated under real world conditions.

The Zuki sounds like a good amp. Why putz around with the goofy ratings? Just let the figures be known and let it stand on its reputation. I'd be interested in the small monoblock, but would I ever get an idea of it's real power ratings? Can I extrapolate that because it makes 15 Zuki watts, that it actually makes 525 REAL watts?

When is a watt not a watt? When it's a Zuki watt!

P.S. Zuki is not the only one to do this. As much as I love my LPs, it's stupidly annoying to say they are 12.5 w amps with .004% THD. I still don't know how much they REALLY put out. I believe it's about 285w x 2. ANNOYING!!!


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

In a sense, did you just prove the point? It is annoying that the LP specs are 12.5 w x 2, but your senses tell you (or possibly bench results) that it is about 285 w x2. If it was written on the box or on the manual, "This amplifier cranks out an incredible 285 w x 2" than you would feel assured - even though what was written didn't tell you any more than what your ears, eyes (cone movement), and sense of touch (feeling the cone move) told you. 

In my thread, I stated that I perceived (through the senses listed above) that it was more powerful than my previous amplifier PDX 4.100 - I don't need to see it written on the box or manual that it makes more wattage. (just my opinion). I understand that it doesn't help someone who didn't experience the A - B comparison - they would have to trust that I could perceive that it had more power than the PDX. 

The Tempos would be driven very well with this amp. My Morel 6 ohm MT23's and 8 ohm HU621's (basically home version of Hybrids) are driven very well with this amplifier - can get extremely loud.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Mooble said:


> You get turned on by a meaningless rating? Why? Unless you plan to listen to these amps with gains set at minimum and at 5 clicks out of 50 on the volume dial those THD ratings are absolutely meaningless, not that they aren't largely meaningless anyway. It's a goofy marketing ploy. This is like advertising that a Hummer H1 will get 30 mpg but neglecting to mention that it was tested going down a 10% grade. I much prefer my products to be rated under real world conditions.
> 
> The Zuki sounds like a good amp. Why putz around with the goofy ratings? Just let the figures be known and let it stand on its reputation. I'd be interested in the small monoblock, but would I ever get an idea of it's real power ratings? Can I extrapolate that because it makes 15 Zuki watts, that it actually makes 525 REAL watts?
> 
> ...


New 2 and 4 channel Pioneer PRS ICE amps list a 10 watt .005% THD rating as well. Along with the regular way to rate power.


----------



## low2001gmc (Aug 27, 2008)

bertholomey said:


> In a sense, did you just prove the point? It is annoying that the LP specs are 12.5 w x 2, but your senses tell you (or possibly bench results) that it is about 285 w x2. If it was written on the box or on the manual, "This amplifier cranks out an incredible 285 w x 2" than you would feel assured - even though what was written didn't tell you any more than what your ears, eyes (cone movement), and sense of touch (feeling the cone move) told you.
> 
> In my thread, I stated that I perceived (through the senses listed above) that it was more powerful than my previous amplifier PDX 4.100 - I don't need to see it written on the box or manual that it makes more wattage. (just my opinion). I understand that it doesn't help someone who didn't experience the A - B comparison - they would have to trust that I could perceive that it had more power than the PDX.
> 
> The Tempos would be driven very well with this amp. My Morel 6 ohm MT23's and 8 ohm HU621's (basically home version of Hybrids) are driven very well with this amplifier - can get extremely loud.


ANOTHER GOOD EXAMPLE BUT SOME FOLKS (NO DISRESPECT INTENDED) JUST NEED TO SEE NUMBERS. I BET IF ZUKI RATED HIS ELLETS SMALL 4 CHANNEL AT 175 WATTS PER CHANNEL, THEN THE ISSUE WOULD BE THAT HOW CAN HE SELL THEM FOR SO LITTLE COMPARED TO OTHERS? THERE WILL ALWAYS BE COMPARISONS NO MATTER WHAT. TO ME, I LOOK AT REVIEWS AND WHO REVIEWED THEM, AND THEN DECIDE. IF I BUY, I TRUST MY EARS TO HELP ME DECIDE IF THAT IS WHAT I AM AFTER OR NOT.


----------



## low2001gmc (Aug 27, 2008)

Mooble said:


> You get turned on by a meaningless rating? Why? Unless you plan to listen to these amps with gains set at minimum and at 5 clicks out of 50 on the volume dial those THD ratings are absolutely meaningless, not that they aren't largely meaningless anyway. It's a goofy marketing ploy. This is like advertising that a Hummer H1 will get 30 mpg but neglecting to mention that it was tested going down a 10% grade. I much prefer my products to be rated under real world conditions.
> 
> The Zuki sounds like a good amp. Why putz around with the goofy ratings? Just let the figures be known and let it stand on its reputation. I'd be interested in the small monoblock, but would I ever get an idea of it's real power ratings? Can I extrapolate that because it makes 15 Zuki watts, that it actually makes 525 REAL watts?
> 
> ...


I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN BUYING THEM STUPIDLY ANNOYING LPs RATED AT 12.5 WATTS BUT I AM LOOKING FOR LESSER WATTS...  JK, I HAD TO BE SARCASTIC, I TRIED TO BUT COULDNT CONTAIN MYSELF. :laugh: DARN IT, IF THE DARN THING SOUNDS GOOD AND PLAYS LOUD LIKE YOU WANT IT TO, WHO CARES WHAT THE DARN WATTS RATING IS, JUST ENJOY IT AND TEASE YOUR BUDDYS ABOUT HOW YOUR 12.5 WATT AMP KICKS THEIR 200 WATT AMP'S ASS.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

?


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

This whole thread has strayed way off topic. I think that if anyone wants to debate the ratings/effectiveness of this amp vs any others then that should be a new thread in the Product Comparison forum. 

If you own, did own, use or have used a Zuki amp then I could see contributing to this thread. I'm guilty for helping get this off topic too, and I apologize to Jason for that. I'll be starting a new thread in the Product Selection/Comparison forum now for all you guys to debate things in and stop cluttering Jason's review thread.

Zach


----------



## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

low2001gmc said:


> IF THE DARN THING SOUNDS GOOD AND PLAYS LOUD LIKE YOU WANT IT TO, WHO CARES WHAT THE DARN WATTS RATING IS, JUST ENJOY IT AND TEASE YOUR BUDDYS ABOUT HOW YOUR 12.5 WATT AMP KICKS THEIR 200 WATT AMP'S ASS.


That's the problem though. The only way we ever found out how much power it really puts out was though Dr Fosgate's indepentent testing. Never in my wildest dreams would I have spent what I did on the LPs if I actually thought they produced only 12.5 watts. What happens if it really did only make that much? I'd be screwed. Fortunately other people have tested them and I knew better. We now know how much the Zukis make, but if we didn't have independent testing, how many people would pay $400 for a 5 watt amp in the HOPE that it made more power than that?


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Mooble said:


> That's the problem though. The only way we ever found out how much power it really puts out was though Dr Fosgate's indepentent testing. Never in my wildest dreams would I have spent what I did on the LPs if I actually thought they produced only 12.5 watts. What happens if it really did only make that much? I'd be screwed. Fortunately other people have tested them and I knew better. We now know how much the Zukis make, but if we didn't have independent testing, how many people would pay $400 for a 5 watt amp in the HOPE that it made more power than that?


You took that leap of faith with LP but are unwilling to do it with Zuki? That SCREAMS hypocrisy. Why were you willing to buy an LP rated at 12.5 Watts but not a Zuki rated at 5 Watts?


----------



## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> You took that leap of faith with LP but are unwilling to do it with Zuki? That SCREAMS hypocrisy. Why were you willing to buy an LP rated at 12.5 Watts but not a Zuki rated at 5 Watts?


I explained why. Because it was 10 years old and had been tested several times. I didn't know exactly what it made when I bought it, but I knew it was at least 185w+ and probably much more. The factory did at least publish a 600w bridged mono rating. It wasn't a leap of faith at all. I knew what I was getting. People had no idea what they were getting with the Zuki until it was independently tested. Patrick sure wasn't telling us. We couldn't even get a view of the internals to get an idea. That was a huge leap of faith.

If I had been looking at the 2.2 when it had just been released, you'd better believe I would have been calling or writing them and expecting some real numbers before I plunked down $700 for an amp with vague power ratings. Soundstream was even worse with the Lil' Wonder specs. Zuki isn't the only one to do it, but it's annoying for consumers.


----------



## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

THis cracks me up......back in the day you would buy an Orion HCCA 25x2. Better known as a "cheater amp". that is what the specs were. Everybody knew it would do 400 watts when dropping the load on it, and had no problem paying 400 dollars for it........so now the debate is people are upset that its not rated at 175 watts per channel


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Come on guys, keep this in the other thread so this one can stay on topic.


----------



## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

HIS4 said:


> Well, I did email Patrick and did get a quick response on my questions. Unfortunately, the Zuki amps will not work for my application for various reasons so I will have to find something else.


Mind telling us why they wouldnt work for you?


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Mooble said:


> I explained why. Because it was 10 years old and had been tested several times. I didn't know exactly what it made when I bought it, but I knew it was at least 185w+ and probably much more. The factory did at least publish a 600w bridged mono rating. It wasn't a leap of faith at all. I knew what I was getting. People had no idea what they were getting with the Zuki until it was independently tested. Patrick sure wasn't telling us. We couldn't even get a view of the internals to get an idea. That was a huge leap of faith.
> 
> If I had been looking at the 2.2 when it had just been released, you'd better believe I would have been calling or writing them and expecting some real numbers before I plunked down $700 for an amp with vague power ratings. Soundstream was even worse with the Lil' Wonder specs. Zuki isn't the only one to do it, but it's annoying for consumers.



And now that it's been tested your whole argument is moot.


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

King Nothing said:


> Mind telling us why they wouldnt work for you?


Yeah, but IN THE OTHER THREAD!! 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...3634-great-zuki-debate-thread.html#post650390


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks boosted for drawing fire away from this thread - I'll see you on the other side (thread)


----------



## mSaLL150 (Aug 14, 2008)

Nice review. I would love one of these amps.


----------



## Focalaudio (Oct 12, 2008)

t3sn4f2 said:


> New 2 and 4 channel Pioneer PRS ICE amps list a 10 watt .005% THD rating as well. Along with the regular way to rate power.


Damn I just noticed the A900 amps doing that. I didn't realized that before, those are pretty impressive number for Pioneer amps. 

The Zuki's seem impressive too, I can't wait to get my hands on one and try it.


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I posted this on the 'Great Debate' thread, but I should post here as well.

I live in central North Carolina - if anyone lives close or is passing through - give me a shout. I would love to audition the amp for anyone who wants to hear it. That is how I found out about Zuki amps, and I would love to offer the same experience to someone else.


----------



## flogger11 (Feb 3, 2009)

kid red said:


> That's an interesting point. I've read that the Zuki puts out 175w a channel. So then why not just say it puts that out? Saying it's 5w x 4 and no published specs that i've seen, I just can't take that leap of faith even though some here praise them.


X2 X2


----------



## thebigjimsho (Jan 11, 2009)

If it's documented that the Zuki amp puts out well over 100 watts per channel, what does it matter? Personally, unless you're looking for SPL, I don't think it matters much if it puts out 175 or 125 watts. If it's that well praised, then it will work well...


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks for the reply.

I did some tuning / listening this weekend. I am extremely impressed with the sound quality and the power / presence this amp demonstrates. I never had this level of excitement in the sound of my system with any other amps that I have used. 

Flogger, I know you don't know me at all, and there are only a few different ways to express the 'power' or 'loudness' of the system - hard to accept unless you listen yourself, but the Zuki Eleets plays my power hungry 6 ohm and 8 ohm drivers very hard - to (what I consider - again subjective) extreme volume levels. 

I am going to hook up with a local member (Greensboro, NC) this weekend for him to audition the amp - I will encourage him to input his listening impressions on this thread.


----------



## j-man (Jan 5, 2009)

bertholomey said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I did some tuning / listening this weekend. I am extremely impressed with the sound quality and the power / presence this amp demonstrates. I never had this level of excitement in the sound of my system with any other amps that I have used.
> 
> ...


That would be me 

I got to meet up with Jason today and hear his system. The first thing I noticed was the depth of the sound. I realized that my front stage has NO mid bass. With the sub set to off, the Morels didn't miss a beat. Jason has the gains set, I think it was all the way down on the tweets and just a few clicks on the mids, and the speakers are driven effortlessly. Very clean sound. I am convinced the Zuki will mate up well with my 720PRS for a solid active front stage. 

Thanks Jason for taking the time to hang out for a bit. It was great to meet up with a fellow hobbyist and board member. Take it easy and I will hit ya up when I get the Q's loaded up in the sealed box I made last week. 

Jman


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Nice to hear that you liked your listening time in Jason's car. I'm really looking forward to getting a chance to hear his car whenever I can finally make it back to NC. 

I'm still debating going from 3 to 4 amps in my car. If I do decide to take the plunge, then I would have 3 ELEETS 4 channels all bridged to 2 channel mode. 1 amp for tweets, 1 amp for mids, 1 amp for midbass, and then I would be using the soon to be released "little" mono for sub duty. But if I don't go that route, then it will just be 2 ELEETS 4 channels and the "little" mono.

Zach


----------



## norcalsfinest (Aug 30, 2008)

Boostedrex said:


> Nice to hear that you liked your listening time in Jason's car. I'm really looking forward to getting a chance to hear his car whenever I can finally make it back to NC.
> 
> I'm still debating going from 3 to 4 amps in my car. If I do decide to take the plunge, then I would have 3 ELEETS 4 channels all bridged to 2 channel mode. 1 amp for tweets, 1 amp for mids, 1 amp for midbass, and then I would be using the soon to be released "little" mono for sub duty. But if I don't go that route, then it will just be 2 ELEETS 4 channels and the "little" mono.
> 
> Zach


Don't blow up the xB. that's a gangload of power


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks J-man for getting together and hearing my little bimmer. It was good meeting you, and you have a great plan for your car. I think the Zuki's, Pioneers, and Fi's will sound fantastic. BTW - I loved the sound of the pipes when you blasted out of the parking lot. 

Zach, I look forward to hearing your impressions. I'm hoping to get some pointers for improvement. BTW - my wife used 'Fragibility' in a sentence today - HOW AWESOME IS THAT?


----------



## j-man (Jan 5, 2009)

She's a completely different beast when you get on the throttle huh!? 

I played around with the crossover, PEQ, and TA on the head unit today. Got it sounding a lot better than what you heard but it is still lacking. I can't wait to go active.


----------



## j-man (Jan 5, 2009)

Hey Jason (or Boosted or anyone else that has one  ) 

Are the crossovers defeatable on the Eleets 4 ch? I just picked one up 

Thanks

Jman


----------



## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

j-man said:


> Hey Jason (or Boosted or anyone else that has one  )
> 
> Are the crossovers defeatable on the Eleets 4 ch? I just picked one up
> 
> ...


the x-over is defeatable if you simply rotate the pot fully counterclock wise, it is by-passed

I asked Patrick the same question & this was his response ^. Hope that helps.


----------



## j-man (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks Kfish 

Helps indeed!

Jman


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Hey J-Man - Congrats! I definitely want to hear your set up once you have everything installed. Give me a shout - I'll be around for the next two weeks. 

I also would like to hear your impressions of the Zuki - either on this thread or on a new one.


----------



## j-man (Jan 5, 2009)

Absolutely Jason 

When I get everything done I will add to my build thread and write up a novice review on the Zuki. 

As you can see, I am turning yet another direction. I should do more research before I buy. Both 6 channels are low pass only on 5&6 so no good for bridging my mids Then I saw the thread with the Zuki and I was Ah HA!!  So it will be the Zuki and the PGX1200.1. Anyone need some amps, I have 6 too many now 

Jman


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

What happened to, "You can never have too many amps!"? I guess there comes a point where too much of a good thing is still too much.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Excellent review bertholomey 

The Depth of the Soundfield is well...unfucking believable 


:mellow:leased:


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I just can't wait to get it properly mounted. Hopefully that will happen in another 2 weeks. I was hoping to get the small mono installed at the same time, but I believe I'll have to make room for it and toss it in when it is completed. 

I'm still amazed at the sound. I got to spend another couple hours in Boostedrex's xB this past week - 2 Eleets sound even better than one! 

BTW - I love that picture of the girl from Shooter -very cool!


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

a couple of more on the length 

ELEETS 4 channel measure 16" X 9.5" X 2.6" 

Thanx for the compliment on my taste


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

j-man said:


> Hey Jason (or Boosted or anyone else that has one  )
> 
> Are the crossovers defeatable on the Eleets 4 ch? I just picked one up
> 
> ...


Yes and no. The X-over's aren't defeatable. However, leave it set to highpass and leave the dial fully counter clockwise. That will have the X-over using a highpass of 15-20Hz IIRC and that will work just fine. It's how I run all of my amps and have no issues. Hope that helps.

Zach


----------



## j-man (Jan 5, 2009)

Jason: Yeah, I know  If I were independently wealthy I would hang on to all of them. Notice only 6 will be sold, I have 14 total (not many compared to some around here but the most I have ever had at one time) 

Zach: Thank you sir  That sounds good. I am going to have it feeding my 720PRS running active off of my 7200 head unit. That's why I was curious. Sounds as if it will be no problem at all 

Thanks guys

Jman


----------



## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

I'll be looking forward to your review. All the reviews I've read so far are top notch. I've got it narrowed down to the Eleets or the Zed 6-channel when it comes out in a few months. One thing about the Zed amp that concerns me is it's class-D.


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm sure that Zed amp will be top notch. Just from my limited experience, going from the Alpine PDX 4.100 to the Zuki Eleets was like night and day. I'm not trying to over-emphasize this, but I could really tell a difference with the level of detail, clarity (noise floor), stereo separation, and fullness of sound. I think these attributes have been realized by most if not all of those who have purchased the Eleets. Good luck with your decision.


----------



## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

fish said:


> the x-over is defeatable if you simply rotate the pot fully counterclock wise, it is by-passed
> 
> I asked Patrick the same question & this was his response ^. Hope that helps.


No, it is NOT bypassed, it is then crossed at 15hz. LAME.


----------



## oldskewl (Aug 17, 2011)

And BASS BOOST??? Are you kidding me? CRAPOLA. 

Also if these amps are 175 x 4 where is all the heat? They are A/B right? How come they are the only 150+ (allegedly) watts per channel A/B amps in the world that dont produce high amounts of heat? Where is the active cooing? 

Personally I dont think much of Zuki.


----------



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Well......I guess.....thanks for sharing that with us. 

I'm not sure where this is coming from......did you just stumble on this thread, or were you searching for zuki threads to comment on?


----------

