# Anybody find that 2 subs separated sound better than 2 close together



## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hi, I was wondering if people on these forums have experimented with 2 subwoofers in 2 separate boxes,spaced as far apart from each other to get better subwoofer sound separation.,and better sound quality in general.,as compared to the standard sub box theory,which has the 2 subwoofers in one box ,essentially touching each other in the center of the trunk.According to most on these forums. Speaker placement makes a huge difference in how your stereo sounds.


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## Jaloosk (Jan 13, 2010)

Speaker placement doesn't make a difference for sub frequencies though because the soundwaves are typically longer than your car anyway.

The "air" inside a sub box basically acts as a spring...doesn't matter if it's a shared airspace or a dedicated airspace...what matters is that there's _enough_ air for each speaker.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Jaloosk said:


> Speaker placement doesn't make a difference for sub frequencies though because the soundwaves are typically longer than your car anyway.
> 
> The "air" inside a sub box basically acts as a spring...doesn't matter if it's a shared airspace or a dedicated airspace...what matters is that there's _enough_ air for each speaker.


If the two subs are working properly this is true, but if for some reason one sub stops working, then the other sub will instantly see double the box volume and may get damaged as well. This is the reason I like my enclosures with separate chambers.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

this isnt going take make ANY differnce in a car. 

2 subs are going to acoustically couple are long as the highest freq you are playing is at least 1/4 wave apart or closer. 1/4 save of 80 hz is 3 1/2 feet. anything lower than 80hz is gonna have to be more than 3 1/2 ft apart to even start to have any effect. 

by the time you get to 40hz you have to keep them 15 feet apart.


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## Jaloosk (Jan 13, 2010)

fcarpio said:


> If the two subs are working properly this is true, but if for some reason one sub stops working, then the other sub will instantly see double the box volume and may get damaged as well. This is the reason I like my enclosures with separate chambers.


This is the reason I only run with one subwoofer. That, and I don't really think the space sacrifice is worth running two subs. If I want more output, instead of getting two subs I would just get a single bigger one.


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## Rrrrolla (Nov 13, 2008)

Subwoofer placement and orientation have always made a significant difference in every car I have owned. Putting 2 subwoofers in different places facing different directions in the trunk for instance would probably affect the sound in some way I would THINK.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

fcarpio said:


> If the two subs are working properly this is true, but if for some reason one sub stops working, then the other sub will instantly see double the box volume and may get damaged as well. This is the reason I like my enclosures with separate chambers.


not to mention that the non-working sub now acts as a passive radiator tuning the good sub to good know what freq.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

He isn't asking about whether or not a single box for 2 subs is better with a divider or not, he is asking about physical placement of the subs closer or further from each other yielding any significant differences in sound.
Minibar's answer seems to be correct, although I have heard very knowledgeable people say that subs should be together to couple more effectively.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

On that note, what would need to be taken into consideration when placing two subs in a large room? 

If they aren't placed near each other, do you have to start looking at phase and distance based on frequency? And where do you focus in terms of frequency? Crossover cutoff? Primary content frequency? 

Just curious. If someone has a link rather than typing out a long explanation, I wouldn't mind.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

once you get them enough apart that they are no longer coupling, they will function just like seperate speakers do. phase, amplitude, standing waves, all of it. just like higher freq drivers.

at real low freqs, it still might not matter much. 20hz is 64ft wavelength.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> He isn't asking about whether or not a single box for 2 subs is better with a divider or not, he is asking about physical placement of the subs closer or further from each other yielding any significant differences in sound.
> Minibar's answer seems to be correct, although I have heard very knowledgeable people say that subs should be together to couple more effectively.


If you are using time alignment with two subs, you will need one channel per sub. Phasing issues can also arise if the two subs are running from a single channel. I like to keep things simple with a single sub channel and a single sub or two subs close together acting as one, works for easier tuning.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

fcarpio said:


> If you are using time alignment with two subs, you will need one channel per sub. Phasing issues can also arise if the two subs are running from a single channel. I like to keep things simple with a single sub channel and a single sub or two subs close together acting as one, works for easier tuning.


Nice points...


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## Rrrrolla (Nov 13, 2008)

Ive heard for myself in a previous car that subs up, vents to the back (with box against rear seats, sounds pretty darn nice.  I suppose in this case, its kinda like having a sub playing the low end (vent output) facing the rear, and the higher end (output from the subs themselves) facing up through the rear deck of the car. This would depend on the car itself I'm sure, but I did find in an old dodge shadow (just showed my age on this post) that it had the best "punch" and "rumble" in this configuration. We get different transfer functions in the drivers seat depending on where and what direction we face the subwoofers. With the tuning capabilities of current systems, I wouldnt even bother screwing with it, but if you dont have good eq's and t/a, it might be worth moving the subs around seperately and pointing them in different directions to get the most gain possible across the entire subwoofer band. I'd try it, but I can eq everything flat anyways. There could be a more efficient way of doing it though I guess.


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## Icefsh (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for bringing this subject up coomaster1. Was wondering if 2 subs separated under the seats of a crew cab truck would mess with the tuning? Have a mono amp and both would be wired in a series on the same channel.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Sounds like the majority of people feel that the 2 subwoofers are better kept together for the reasons you guys described.My subwoofers are in a box in the trunk facing towards the back seat.Almost touching the back of the back seat.Will this hurt my sound quality and output with them so close to the back seat,since there is not much air for them to move.Even if I turned them the other way and fired them towards the back of the trunk,They will be firing into my amp board that holds all the amplifiers. Which way do most of you guys end up facing your subwoofers for the best sound quality and output,I'd hate to get a good sound quality subwoofer,say like a diyma sub or heaven forbid if someone were to install a dynaudio esotar subwoofer. Only to have it's sound quality muffled behind a seat.My best quality sub sound came from when I owned a car with a hatchback. Where the subs were facing up, and you could reach out and physically touch them. Is there a way to mimick the sound quality and output I had when they were installed in a hatchback with nothing in front of them.


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## Rrrrolla (Nov 13, 2008)

most report that facing them to the rear tucked up against the back seats or as far back in the trunk as possible facing forwards or in the rear corners facing the opposite corner. You will PROBABLY hear a significant difference if you just turn them around. Hatch backs sound good because the subs in the hatch are already as far back in the "trunk" as possible.


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## boogeyman (Jul 1, 2008)

With 2 speakers next to each other at a distance of more than the wavelength of the reproduced frequency. The average measured volume On-Axis and Off-Axis adds up for +3db (double power). With 2 speakers close enough to get mutual coupling the volume adds up for +6db. That is 1 reason why manufactures incorporate Truncated frames, to allow for closer center to center spacing of the acoustical centers.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

The car is probably too small for separation to matter too much. In home setting though, it can definitely make a difference. Usually you can have certain areas of the room that have a bass null or peak, etc. Using two can make more of the seating area in the "sweet spot". I know that I played around with the sub placement in my basement to get it where the bass was nice at my preferred seating location.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

Just saying that I did have individual boxes for each subwoofer,and I was able to place them anywhere I please. Would the sound quality be the best by placing one in the left corner as far back as It could go, and the other one in the right corner as far back as it could go, and then the midrange beside it,and then the tweeter. Or would you place the 2 subwoofers together in the center ,and then the midrange next,and then the tweeter to the outside.The first way mentioned you have the subs as far apart,and the tweeters would end up being close together.The second way mentioned would have the tweeters far apart from each other in the rear deck.


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## Earzbleed (Feb 10, 2013)

Tweeters in the rear deck? I'm one of those "wouldn't be without rear fill"guys but I still want all the treble coming from the front.


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## coomaster1 (Jul 22, 2010)

I have listened to a 3 way in the front ,and a rear 2 way with great success.It simply adds to the fullness of the front sound stage and is not pulling the sound stage backwards like many people might think. I just wanted opinions to my last question. Thanks


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## Beckerson1 (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm trying to find the build video series for this but imagine the hours of tuning for a 7.12 setup (subs in a L/C/R configuration).


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