# Please help a noob. Need 6.5" SQ Tight Sub



## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

Hi there,
I have been following up here for a while now. And I have seen some great posts from knowledgeable users. My car is a 4 door sedan. I have an alpine deck, alpine Type S 5.25" front door speakers. And that's all. What I am missing is some bottom end. I am all down with SQ stuff. I am here looking for sound knowledge to help me make a good decision not opinions (unless you can back it up with a good reason). But please bare with me, I don't know all that Fs and Xmax stuff. I listen to all types of music, hip hop, some rock etc.

I have owned following subs in the past:

JL W3 8" with JL ported box. (Sounded like **** - A guy at local "quality" electronic shop told me JL was best sub out there but unfortunately he didn't take my music taste into account at all).

2 Kicker COMP VT 10". Sounded too boomy. **** sound in rock music

Right now I have a logitech 8" and I believe they are made by Tang Band for logitech. It is in a sealed bassworx box. It is okay but still a bit boomy. All these subs were in my trunk.

I borrowed a pair of inexpensive sony speakers (6.5") from a friend to try and installed on my rear deck and amped them with 75W per channel crossed over at 65 Hz (LPF). They sounded excellent so I am guessing what I need is a 6.5" subwoofer. Now this is where I need help from you guys. I'm fed up with all the subwoofer sounding muddy and boomy in my trunk. I would like a bit of bottom end but I absolutely don't care about shaking the windows or messing up my girlfriend's hair. I just need some bottom end with nice tight punchy bass that can hit low enough (30 Hz would be nice). I was thinking to get TangBand SI 6.5" subwoofer but guys at Tang band told me it has to go in a ported box and I was trying to avoid ported altogether in a hope that a 6.5" subwoofer in a sealed box inside my trunk will give me some gain. Please help me out. 

P.S: I want to add that my amp is capable of 150W RMS bridged or 75W x 2. The LPF setting adjustable 50-400 Hz.

Thank you.


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## chipss (Nov 13, 2009)

30 cycles out of a 6 1/2 speaker is gonna be a stretch, DIYCable.com : Intro » Home » Exodus Subwoofers »


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

It is a cute sub. 6 Ohms. My amp manual says to put 4 Ohms. would that make a difference? and Why do they call it a mid woofer? Sorry for stupid questions, I am a bit noob.

In addition, I was just surfing parts express and some 8" woofers I came across are labelled mid woofer.. Like why?? 

More suggestions? please keep coming.


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## chipss (Nov 13, 2009)

not all but most subs start at 10" 

a few run 8"s as mids....

the boomyness issue your talking about, is better dealt with with EQ rather than changes in gear, 

this site has a ton of info, and many topics on sq type subs...


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

Much appreciated. I don't really want to EQ though. In the past, I never had much luck with EQs and I prefer to stay away from "extra" gear. Besides, like I said in my op, the sony 6.5" sounded pretty descent but just didn't hit low enough. I was thinking maybe a good 6.5" subwoofer in a sealed box might do the job. I need help figuring out whether it is possible and all the technical details and the type of box etc.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

The Tang Band neo sub is pretty kickass. I run one in my Jeep. It would perform better ported, but to save room, I run it sealed.

Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2" Subwoofer | Parts-Express.com

Here's a video to show they are no joke, he's a member here.

YouTube - Tang Band 6.5" subs workin it


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

I must say wow. Who is that member? He should help poor me.. . I think I will just need one of those. I like the way how they don't make the music itself sound muddy. A lot of videos on youtube with 12", 10" and even 8" subs mud the music out and hurt my ear. 

So those tang bands then, what sort of frequency response am I looking at with that 6.5 in a sealed box in my trunk? Will it hit 30 Hz? I am just a bit scared because a lot of people tell me 6.5" won't do the job and that I should get atleast 8". I have an 8" though but I don't like it..  more help please.


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## timbo2 (Apr 25, 2009)

going smaller is unlikely to help you.... if you want strong response from 30hz you are best to get a 10 or 12inch (like every one else)


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

elemental design makes a nice 6.5 sub....but why 6.5 anyway?

The next 8" sub i am going to try is the polk audio mm8...yea i am THAT happy with my current MM1240


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## chipss (Nov 13, 2009)

holy smoke 13mm x max in a 6.5, fs to 38. thats a hell of a speaker, great price too...




89grand said:


> The Tang Band neo sub is pretty kickass. I run one in my Jeep. It would perform better ported, but to save room, I run it sealed.
> 
> Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2" Subwoofer | Parts-Express.com
> 
> ...


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

89grand said:


> The Tang Band neo sub is pretty kickass. I run one in my Jeep. It would perform better ported, but to save room, I run it sealed.
> 
> Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2" Subwoofer | Parts-Express.com
> 
> ...


I was contemplating these in my door to pair up with my Aura whispers.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

That's my video of the IS300 I owned before the Tacoma I have now. I still run the Tang Bands but I've gone ported with them. You'll get excellent response out of them in the proper enclosure. They'll take a ton of power too, those things never give up.


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## chipss (Nov 13, 2009)

we would all like to hit? say around 30 cycles, in as small a space as possable, and add cabin gain and be right there, with no EQ, if it were that easy, we would all be doing it...


you need to talk to a woofer box builder to crunch numbers for you, getting a little 6.5 and wanting sealed? man your asking for somthing that I will not say can not be done, but will take looking some time to find the right driver, know what specs to look for. problem is some manucatures flat out lie about there specs..say you find that driver.....and even then...you may need to go ported to get a tuning that low....and no matter what the x-max is a 6.5 is just not going to move that much air....


but lets say you do pull this off.....you will need an EQ to tame the beast you just made..unless you get real ****ing lucky.

I will just say it, dude what your asking for is a stretch at best, 
can it be done? mabey, 
an idea, 

open your mind to other options, if digging low is what you want try a larger woofer and port it. then eq to get things flat...

understand that if a 6.5 driver is being used it will have limmits, seal the box even more so, even if it gets to 30 cycles, there will be a rolloff happening, cabin gain is in your favor, mabey this rolloff is what you like in the sony? thus no boom...why are you so set on 30? looking at speaker plots with freq/db's can help you find this driver.... 


the tang band is a fine driver, will it hit 30 in a sealed box??? mabey with cabin gain, an exact answer is hard to say....


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## chipss (Nov 13, 2009)

now thats one way to do it for sure, fine looking box.




ItalynStylion said:


> That's my video of the IS300 I owned before the Tacoma I have now. I still run the Tang Bands but I've gone ported with them. You'll get excellent response out of them in the proper enclosure. They'll take a ton of power too, those things never give up.


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

I rocked the Tang Band 4 x 6.5 for a while as well with great results.... Highly recommended. Moved them in doors for an under couch home theater sub and they are still doing their job quite well.


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

Wow guys. Thank you everyone for the response. And thanks for coming out (the person who posted the youtube video). ItalynStaylion howcome you went ported afterwards? 

Chips, speaking of me liking sony, I think maybe it is the rolloff that I like thus no boom. Ok so I can go up and say I would like to hit 35 Hz. I have tried many 10" and 8", they are just not to my taste. 

So then, that tang band 6.5 with a sealed box, how low will it hit in my trunk? 35 Hz? 38 Hz?

I have loosen up my requirements so I would say 35 Hz heck even 40 Hz is good enough. Recommendations? This is costly because I will be getting the box made which will set me $150 for a sealed one. So I want to make sure Tang Band 6.5 will do the job. I saw JL 6.5 w series but I think JLs are a bit overpriced as I have tried them before and they were ok not THAT great.


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

Download WinISD and model the enclosure and you will see why he went ported. The driver is in the database.


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

how much bottom end will I lose if I go with sealed and Tang Band? 

Chips, I have tried to stay open minded but I don't think any 8" or 10" is tight enough for me. Tried JL, Kicker, Logitech (Tang Band). I think the bigger cone itself doesn't move back and forth fast enough compared to a 6.5". Now I am sure I can buy ultra high end 8"/10" inch tight accurate subwoofer but I don't have $1000 to spend. That's why I want to go for 6.5".


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

sqonly said:


> how much bottom end will I lose if I go with sealed and Tang Band?
> 
> Chips, I have tried to stay open minded but I don't think any 8" or 10" is tight enough for me. Tried JL, Kicker, Logitech (Tang Band). I think the bigger cone itself doesn't move back and forth fast enough compared to a 6.5". Now I am sure I can buy ultra high end 8"/10" inch tight accurate subwoofer but I don't have $1000 to spend. That's why I want to go for 6.5".



Sorry to sound harsh, but your position is so biased and off. The 6.5 is a great compromise to meet an installation constraint, but that view on cone weight and speed is so wrong. Spend some time using the search button doing some research. There are MANY drivers of ALL sizes that make nice tight accurate bass. My bet is that the last boxes you have tried were built all wrong for the specs of the chosen drivers.

Search term clue.... woofer speed inductance


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

sqonly said:


> how much bottom end will I lose if I go with sealed and Tang Band?
> 
> Chips, I have tried to stay open minded but I don't think any 8" or 10" is tight enough for me. Tried JL, Kicker, Logitech (Tang Band). I think the bigger cone itself doesn't move back and forth fast enough compared to a 6.5". Now I am sure I can buy ultra high end 8"/10" inch tight accurate subwoofer but I don't have $1000 to spend. That's why I want to go for 6.5".


Tightness doesn't come from the size of the woofer. You didn't like the 8's or 10's because they weren't in an ideal enclosure for what you are looking for. Moving down to a 6.5 isn't going to give you any crisper sound if the box isn't ideal, it's just not going to play as low or loud. If you were going with a single 6.5 based on space issues that would be a different story, but no single 6.5 in a sealed box is going to add much to your bottom end.

A decent 8, 10, 12, 15 in the right enclosure will do way more than a single 6.5.


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## PABowhunter4life (Jan 3, 2009)

sqonly said:


> how much bottom end will I lose if I go with sealed and Tang Band?
> 
> Chips, I have tried to stay open minded but I don't think any 8" or 10" is tight enough for me. Tried JL, Kicker, Logitech (Tang Band). I think the bigger cone itself doesn't move back and forth fast enough compared to a 6.5". Now I am sure I can buy ultra high end 8"/10" inch tight accurate subwoofer but I don't have $1000 to spend. That's why I want to go for 6.5".


You don't need $1,000 to get exactly what you are looking for....

Phoenix Gold RSd12D 12" 700W Dual 4 ohm Car Sub Woofer - eBay (item 300449142093 end time Aug-22-10 16:42:35 PDT)


NEW Phoenix Gold RSD10 10" 4-ohm subwoofer 500 Watts - eBay (item 160448099888 end time Aug-21-10 14:31:38 PDT)


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

> Tightness doesn't come from the size of the woofer. You didn't like the 8's or 10's because they weren't in an ideal enclosure for what you are looking for. Moving down to a 6.5 isn't going to give you any crisper sound if the box isn't ideal, it's just not going to play as low or loud. If you were going with a single 6.5 based on space issues that would be a different story, but no single 6.5 in a sealed box is going to add much to your bottom end.


Thank you for the tip. So it seems like the enclosure is the main thing.



> A decent 8, 10, 12, 15 in the right enclosure will do way more than a single 6.5.


Not trying to critique you here but the statement "will do way more" is vague because what is more to you may not be more to me. And exactly what defines more as more? You are stating a personal opinion without backing it up with facts or analysis. I like the previous thing you mentioned about box but your last statement came out without much to offer in terms of reflection to the person reading it. I can add two 6.5", will that do? I just prefer to stay away from 8" and up.

PABowhunter, please no 10" or 12". 

And yes I prefer to keep the size down.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

sqonly said:


> Thank you for the tip. So it seems like the enclosure is the main thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously?? You need to do some research. A 6.5 isn't going to be able to move nearly as much air as a bigger woofer, I don't need to back this up with links, it's fact. Displacement is the key and a 6.5 would need HUGE amounts of excursion to move the same amount of air as a bigger woofer. Being able to move more air easier is going to give you louder and lower bass as well as keeping the distortion down. As the woofer reaches it's excursion limits distortion rises.

The reason that you didn't like the 8's or 10's had nothing to do with the size and to say that all big woofers sound bad is a myth. The key is to have an enclosure that is properly designed for the woofer, the car and your musical tastes.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

I'm a personal believer in using the largest subwoofer you are willing to sacrifice the room for. I use the Tang Band 6.5" because it fit my install idea for my Jeep. I wouldn't use a sub that small normally if I didn't have to.


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## tmcdade (Jul 4, 2009)

Here's a good read, specifically where Patrick comes in: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ht-6-5-midbass-drivers-any-suggestions-2.html
Even if you don't agree with everything he says, I think he makes some good points. JMO

I know you're looking specifically for a 6.5 because you like the punch they have. I get that, and I think that we all do, but what I think everyone's trying to say is that you could have, for example, 2 different 12in. subs and each of them will have a little different 'character' to their sound. The first could be what you don't like - 'boomy', while the other is punchy and tight. Every sub has different specs and is build a little differently. I don't think you can just group all 12's together without hearing them and say that none of them are punchy enough. I've heard lots of 18 year olds with subs that sound muddy as sh**, but others with some very nice, musical, punchy subs. Just give that link a read and see what you think, that's all I ask. I think it may really help you find a sub that you're looking for that will also reach down as low as you originally wanted (30hz or lower). Even if it doesn't change your mind, just realize that not all 10's or 12's are muddy. And at the same time specs on paper will only tell you so much. If you're really set on the 6.5's, if it were me, I'd go with the tang band's that have been suggested. Good luck

And a lot of it depends on having the proper size and type of enclosure as others have mentioned


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

Edit. Thank you for the suggestion. I am going to read that link. Wanted to add that I totally believe that larger subwoofers will move more air. But I think my ears are ultra sensitive and don't tolerate high SPL low frequency sound. And because I don't want ground shaking SPLs, I thought 6.5" should suffice. Also I admit that not all 8" or 10" sound muddy. That was a false assumption on my behalf so I take that back. But I still want 6.5" due to the concern mentioned above.

I just ordered a Tang Band 6.5" from partsexpress and a Tang Band 8". Plan to return one of them and keep the other whichever sounds good. I still need help with the box though. As people mentioned that box makes a huge difference. So this goes in the trunk of my compact 4 door sedan. Any recommendation on the box?


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

sqonly said:


> I totally agree that a larger sub will have more oumphh. But the point here is that they are not to my taste. Perhaps my ear are sensitive to high SPL low frequency sound. I need some help finding the right 6.5" driver that is designed to be a subwoofer. And with you guys helping me build a right enclosure for it.


That's why you get a woofer that is capable and turn down the gains if it's too loud. But if you really want one 6.5 pushed to it's limits good luck. 

There was a guy on here just like you. He goes by Spence. He would ask for help and dismiss every recommendation that he got. It sounds like you're set in your ways so do your thing. I don't understand what you want. There aren't many 6.5 subs at all, and there are even fewer people who use them, because they don't over anything that a bigger woofer can, except for saving space. You aren't going to get much input, and since you don't like 8's or 10's because the one's you've used were set up poorly, you aren't going to like a 6.5 much either.

Good luck.


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## tmcdade (Jul 4, 2009)

Loudness isn't really what I was getting at. Low frequency extension was more my point in choosing a 12 over the 6.5. Personally I think you're going to get more output at 30hz from a 12, and if it gets too loud, just turn down the bass or subwoofer adjustment on your headunit. That way you're still getting the deeper, lower frequency bass of the 12, but it doesn't have to be any louder than the 6.5. But choose what you want. I'll let Italynstylion or someone with some more experience chime in on box sizes

Edit: looks like you, and gijoe and I were all typing at the same time. Hope you find what you're looking for


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## chipss (Nov 13, 2009)

the truth,
a 6.5 woofer is not for a newb, just look at the ported array in this post...


you are on a budget? you are looking in the wrong area, 

your busting into a room with some very smart people, all try to help you and arguing 
With them using, at best …..best-buy car audio myths….

You can for sure try to push poor thinking on people who are very smart at this, 
Go back to best buy, and just get a sony cuz dude its so tight, 

Or you can slow the **** down, zipp it up, and start reading posts links given to you, download software and look at the math your self....
and begin to learn how all this **** works……for real…

Berkley school of music has a demo of recording classes online, it shows the power of a one band eq on …….boomyness 

Either way, I am out.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

I seriously doubt that one 6.5" will be enough in a 4 dr car in the trunk. I have just one in my Jeep sealed in about .23 ft3, but it's in the passenger side floor board so it's up front, and a Wrangler is pretty small. It does add some much needed bottom end, and it's a great sub for what it is, but I doubt one would be enough in any car in the trunk. The 8" or a couple of the 6.5's ported on the other hand may just be what you're looking for.

I wonder if I should make a video and see if it relays just what this thing can do. I'm running with about 120 watts.


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

> Or you can slow the **** down, zipp it up, and start reading posts links given to you


Using vulgar language is merely not a scientific measure and a good sign of lack of patience. 



> Berkley school of music has a demo of recording classes online, it shows the power of a one band eq on …….boomyness


Can I get a link for that? a reference or citation?

Either way thank you chipps for all your tips. Now to other users who are willing to help.



> you aren't going to like a 6.5 much either


You think so? What reason do you have to think that?

89grand, I ran a 5.25" subwoofer by logitech and it seemed to provide enough oumphh that "I" am looking for. So can you help me setup that tang band 6.5" driver ? I think for "me" one is enough.



> but it's in the passenger side floor board so it's up front, and a Wrangler is pretty small. It does add some much needed bottom end


Actually I read on this forum by one of the postees that the "Trunk" actually increases the gain at lower frequency.

And finally some feedback for tmc. 



> and if it gets too loud, just turn down the bass or subwoofer adjustment on your headunit.


I see your point of using a larger driver now. However it isn't as simple as that. Problem with low frequency sound is that you need higher SPL for it to be audible. Now if I turn down the gain and use larger woofer for low frequency response, it makes everything counter intuitive because to listen to 30 Hz or below, I need more gain and higher SPL to perceive anything. Reference: Hearing test methodology http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html



> But choose what you want. I'll let Italynstylion or someone with some more experience chime in on box sizes


It is kind of you to express those types of words.

While I admit that everyone (except for some people) here know the technical background of what makes a good subwoofer, however the problem I see is that "some" guys (no names to be mentioned) don't understand the psychoacoustics of human auditory system. How we actually perceive and hear things is good to know. As a request, if anyone plans on making a post like chipps did, then please stay silent and let other users help me out.


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## PABowhunter4life (Jan 3, 2009)

sqonly said:


> Using vulgar language is merely not a scientific measure and a good sign of lack of patience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am very, very confused now. You just said that higher SPL is needed to hit 30HZ in an audible fashion. Yet you want a 6.5" sub that is not going to produce anywhere near the SPL level that a 10" or 12" will. You knock the larger subs for having too much SPL, yet SPL is what you need to get down the level of sound that you are looking for???? 

I am not going to swear or anything like that, but the long & short of this post is that you want a 6.5" sub...PERIOD, for no other reason than the fact that the Sony sub of your friend's that you tried was the only one in a proper enclosure so it sounded best to you. And for the record, using a larger sub & turning down the gain will still yield more output than you are going to get from a 6.5" sub in your trunk so it is by no means counter intuitive. You can read about cabin gain & everything till the cows come home, but it's never the same, there's no set rules & many people have tried to do exactly what you want to do & have failed.


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

Yes you are right I am looking for a 6.5" sub. Thus the title of the post reflects this. 

In addition, I have raised my low frequency bar to 35 Hz since with other posts, I did "self-realize" that 30 Hz is asking for too much. 

The resonance for that Tang Band 6.5" is 38 Hz. With proper enclosure, I don't see any reason why it can't hit 35 Hz audible.

That's all I am looking for. So I still need help when the Tang Band comes, since I don't have the box for it and I need advice on that still...


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Some things I'd like to add to this thread....


Fact: 6.5" subwoofer will play subsonic if you put it in the right enclosure.
Fact: 6.5" subs are at a cone area disadvantage with regards to larger subs.
Myth: Larger subs need more power.
Myth: Smaller subs are more efficient.

It goes like this; every time you double the cone area you gain a 3db sensitivity advantage. So by nature, larger subs are typically more efficient and will offer more output with less power. They move more air. 

The 6.5" sub isn't really all that efficient but it DOES offer some unique advantages if used properly. The LE parameter (inductance) of the voice coil for a speaker is a good indication of the amount of distortion the driver will produce. So of course lower is better. Take a look at the inductance spec on the Tang Band driver. After you're mind has finished exploding read the next paragraph.

So we're at a cone area disadvantage which means we can't get all that loud without reaching the physical limits of the sub. The music is sweet and relatively distortion free until you near the limits of a speaker so it's a nice little catch 22. But there are ways to cheat the situation.

You can control the movement of the speaker using a well designed enclosure. Tune it relatively low to keep xmax in check at the lower frequencies where cone movement would typically be at a maximum. This will keep distortion down. You can also add multiple subs to the system. Double, triple, or quadruple your cone area and the whole system gains more efficiency. At 80hz, one Tang Band sub needs 100 watts to reach 101db and cone movement is 5mm. You could run 4 subs on 25watts each (same 100 total) and you'll keep Xmax down to 2.5mm but here's the kicker, you'll reach 109db.

So in my case I decided to both control the cone movement by porting and go with multiple subs. I did it because they are a great sounding driver and are just cool as hell. Plus, if I ever pop one (haven't yet) they're cheap to replace. I did some STUPID stuff with my 4 sealed Tang Bands in the IS300. I had them eating up every bit of 650RMS and they never once complained. People who sat in that car will tell you it rocked out of control. Once I get processing in the Tacoma I'm thinking things will be even better.


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

ItalyonStaylon where have you been? lol

I follow you mate, and no it is rather simple math and every bit of it makes sense. However look at this though



> So in my case I decided to both control the cone movement by porting and go with multiple subs. I did it because *they are a great sounding driver and are just cool as hell*. Plus, if I ever pop one (haven't yet) they're cheap to replace. I did some STUPID stuff with my 4 sealed


You see? that is exactly what I was talking about before. That I like the "sound" of 6.5" drivers. I admit that the box makes a huge difference. And quite frankly, 101 db is more than enough SPL for me mate. 109 db, I risk losing my girlfriend to be honest 

So help me mate with that tang band. I originally ordered two from partexpress, but just cancelled the 8" order and only 6.5" is coming to me now. 

Can't wait to put that cute little sucker in a box. Sealed will do? How were your tang bands in sealed? could you make a video of one of them in a sealed box? wow that would be really awesome if you could (I know I know I can't tell anything over the mic recorded but just for fun I want to see it).


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

I used one of the 6.5 tangbands in a tapped horn enclosure for a home theater sub tuned to 30 hz. It does get low enough for who i built it for, but me personally, nope. I have my 12" dual passive sub i built for my home theater duties. 

Now i know home theater and car audio are much different but i am just putting my experience out there. It is a really neat driver yet i would not use it for a car audio install by itself. I would need at least three of them but would probably do four like italynstylion. I say go for it, but make it ported. The box won't be very big. If you want, i can model it up for you and see what sizes would be ideal. Send me a pm if you interested.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/85854-6-5-tangband-30-hz-tapped-horn.html



sqonly said:


> Can't wait to put that cute little sucker in a box. Sealed will do? How were your tang bands in sealed? could you make a video of one of them in a sealed box?


I know this wasn't directed at me but if i get bored this weekend i could throw a box together real quick and shoot a video. I would get it to an ideal size and would probably use a 240 watt plate amp.


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

thanks Austin. I really appreciate you going extra mile to help. Wow it would be really awesome if you could model a box for me. And the woofer is on it's way to me. TB 6.5" just one. So box would be for one ofcourse.

I was hoping to put it in a sealed box because it will cost me much less. A guy at Futureshop was going to build one for me and considering how easy sealed boxes are to build, I thought i would get it from there costing $150 for sealed.

On the other hand, I am not very confident in his ability to make a ported box. Because they are harder to build. Now I know you guys are pros so you can build one but I don't think this guy will be able to tune it to the specs properly.

This is why I wanted to go sealed. 

Austin, I will PM you shortly.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Shoot me a PM. I'll build you a ported box for the same amount. But I strongly suggest using two woofers.


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

^Steve will do you right. Take him up on this offer!!!!!!


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

So i just modeled it up. The difference from ported to sealed is very dramatic.

Here is the ported version with .5 cu ft tuned to 34 hz and the port being either 2x2x16.xx or 2x3x25.xx the port match was .06 and .04 respectively which are both good.











And here is the crazy response from the sealed version. The best i could get was a -3 db of 66 hz and that was from a box that was <.2 cu ft. I tried going from there all the way up to 10 cu ft and it barely changed by going up to -3db of ~ 73hz. I highly recomend you go ported at least if you want to stick with one.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

I agree ported is a better solution, but the sub does perform pretty good in a sealed box even if the graphs show otherwise. At least it does in my Jeep.


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## sqonly (Jul 30, 2010)

Sweet stuff. Decided to go sealed with 1 TB for now and I might add another one later if SPL is not good enough. This should be sweet though. Reason I went for sealed is because I like the gradual roll off and somewhat linear (ish) curve of sealed in Austin's analysis.

The ported definitely have more dB, but the curve isn't to my taste. I was so close to taking up italyon's offer but ported doesn't seem like what I want after seeing the graph.

SEALED FOREVER..... NOW I can't wait till this comes. Will do a video and show you guys so stay tuned.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

sqonly said:


> In addition, I have raised my low frequency bar to 35 Hz since with other posts, I did "self-realize" that 30 Hz is asking for too much.
> 
> The resonance for that Tang Band 6.5" is 38 Hz. With proper enclosure, I don't see any reason why it can't hit 35 Hz audible.(


what music do you listen to that you feel requires 35hz?


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Austin said:


> So i just modeled it up. The difference from ported to sealed is very dramatic.


Indeed. I noticed this when I modeled them for the first time as well. After seeing that I KNEW I had to port them eventually. I ran sealed and was VERY happy with it but that ported response graph was eating at me in the back of my mind the *whole* time.:laugh:


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

89grand said:


> I agree ported is a better solution, but the sub does perform pretty good in a sealed box even if the graphs show otherwise. At least it does in my Jeep.


Yeah I'm sure it does fine. Cabin gain probably helps bump up the lower end a bit.

O.P. can't wait to hear your findings as to how well it works sealed in your trunk.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

slade1274 said:


> ^Steve will do you right. Take him up on this offer!!!!!!


x2.

He's an excellent guy to deal with and builds all of my sub boxes!!


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## timbo2 (Apr 25, 2009)

dump the 5inch type s buy real speakers then maby you wont have such a "muddy" sound.... buy BETTER Speakers then start thinking about a crazy sub stage


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## ozzynichols (Feb 19, 2010)

I have never owned or heard an Elemental Designs e3.6, but they are inexpensive and I liked the 2 ED subs I've had. Can't say they'll be the tightest subs out there, but just a suggestion.


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## ozzynichols (Feb 19, 2010)

And maybe the HAT Imagine sub when it comes out.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

ozzynichols said:


> And maybe the HAT Imagine sub when it comes out.


Never heard of it...I might have to search on that


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## blaze452 (Jun 27, 2010)

Id suggest this 6.5" sub for you if you decide to stay at a 6.5, Sounds amazing, and awesome SQ. Oh and they play down to 33 HZ I believe. Ultra Subwoofers have some on the best SQ subs Ive heard. 

http://www.ultrasubs.com/proddetail.php?prod_uid=6


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

blaze452 said:


> Id suggest this 6.5" sub for you if you decide to stay at a 6.5, Sounds amazing, and awesome SQ. Oh and they play down to 33 HZ I believe. Ultra Subwoofers have some on the best SQ subs Ive heard.
> 
> http://www.ultrasubs.com/proddetail.php?prod_uid=6


Considering they are over 3 times the price of the Tang Band I'd say nooo way. 77db efficient is a deal breaker too.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

ItalynStylion said:


> Considering they are over 3 times the price of the Tang Band I'd say nooo way. *77db efficient is a deal breaker too*.


Ouch! not to mention it takes more than three time the power and doesn't even list xmax so it is hard to compare to the tangband.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

Since we have some IS300 talk on here, why did you guys go sealed and/or ported on the rear deck of the IS300 with those Tang Bands rather than an IB setup? Looks like the OEM holes are 6.5, so all you would have to do is seal everything off and beef up the baffle. I'm trying to get away without building a manifold here, and I am hoping that two 6.5" subs will be enough bass for my taste. Specific to this car though I would love to hear your decision process. I am in the process of reading through all the IS300 build threads now...


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## ozzynichols (Feb 19, 2010)

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_21&products_id=33

And here is the Buwalda Hybrids thread on the soon-to-be released Imagine 6.5" sub with Q&A from the designer:

Buwalda Hybrids International Bulletin Board • View topic - HAT SUBs

And a prototype photo: Login | Facebook


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## jasondplacetobe (Jun 15, 2009)

chipss said:


> the truth,
> a 6.5 woofer is not for a newb, just look at the ported array in this post...
> 
> 
> ...


AMEN! BROTHER!
sqonly, you have epitomized the saying" you can leed a horse to water, but you cant make him drink." i'll give you credit for being such a marble head in the face of soooo many quality opinions. its comical:laugh:. i just wish i could get this kind of repose when i ask a question:laugh::laugh:


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## jasondplacetobe (Jun 15, 2009)

forgot to add something useful.
anybody have any experiance with the exodus audio anarchy 6.5? i saw one of these on you tube stretched to the max. it was quite as f12k too while it was doing it. so if you dont like the tangs motor noize check that out


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## chipss (Nov 13, 2009)

I truly was trying to help the guy out, but his attitude

….was not to my taste…. 

It should read how can I hog tie a tang band 6.5?

I will only use 1
I will seal it
I will put it in my trunk
I will use no EQ


He based his beliefs putting a sony 6.5 installed on his rear deck ??? At least he has a blow though now???
IB?= sealed? nope not even close 
And other audio myths…
then pretty much blew off all advice given to him. 
.5 cu ft tuned to 34 hz Or 66 hz .2 cu ft. -3db??? 
anyway

the guys using this driver? What did they do?

Placed under front seat were install was and issue…jeep
Ported it…
Used arrays, multiple drivers, horns…ect
Pushing some clean power to them?

TUNED THERE SYSTEM? I bet so….

But the plot tells the whole story anyway…lol

But who knows may end up being the best peace of gear the guy has ever owned?
And be to his taste? 

Think I will go for a drive and have my crappy slow boomy jl 3v 10s punch the **** out of me…lol

Btw I am a sailor so **** = ! Now that is science…muhahaha


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## ozzynichols (Feb 19, 2010)

Aye-aye, Shippie!


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## mitchjr (Mar 8, 2010)

I strongly suggest the op go to Mark K's blog and read his primer on non-linear distortion. 
Some of these guys are giving you some quality advice.
From Mark K's site:
It’s hard not to draw the conclusion that, even for moderate levels in moderate sized rooms, the smallest driver needed for undistorted low frequency extension is an 8" driver. 10-12" drivers are required for true low distortion bass at realistic levels.


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## avantgarde (Nov 29, 2010)

Has anyone used these in a sealed enclosure in a rear deck? My Acura has a rear "subenclosure" built into the chassis of the car. it uses 2 6x9s powered by 100watts off a single channel off the standard Amp...

My plan was to remove the standard 6 channel amp and replace it with a different amp. EQ the two 6.5s in the rear tray and all that other jazz. I intended to replace the 6x9s with converter plates to change over to the 6.5s. The Cabin gain should be pretty good right? That way I wouldn't have to play them that loud.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

avantgarde said:


> Has anyone used these in a sealed enclosure in a rear deck? My Acura has a rear "subenclosure" built into the chassis of the car. it uses 2 6x9s powered by 100watts off a single channel off the standard Amp...
> 
> My plan was to remove the standard 6 channel amp and replace it with a different amp. EQ the two 6.5s in the rear tray and all that other jazz. I intended to replace the 6x9s with converter plates to change over to the 6.5s. The Cabin gain should be pretty good right? That way I wouldn't have to play them that loud.


Sounds very confusing to me, are you sure it can handle it


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

avantgarde said:


> Has anyone used these in a sealed enclosure in a rear deck? My Acura has a rear "subenclosure" built into the chassis of the car. it uses 2 6x9s powered by 100watts off a single channel off the standard Amp...
> 
> My plan was to remove the standard 6 channel amp and replace it with a different amp. EQ the two 6.5s in the rear tray and all that other jazz. I intended to replace the 6x9s with converter plates to change over to the 6.5s. The Cabin gain should be pretty good right? That way I wouldn't have to play them that loud.


Shouldn't 6x9's handle bass more easily than 6-1/2's due to larger cone area?


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## avantgarde (Nov 29, 2010)

trojan fan said:


> Sounds very confusing to me, are you sure it can handle it


What do you mean?




ZAKOH said:


> Shouldn't 6x9's handle bass more easily than 6-1/2's due to larger cone area?


It's exceedingly difficult/expensive to find 6x9s that can fit in the opening and complete the tasks i set for them. also, i have yet to find a 6x9 with 26mm of peak to peak excursion.

While I'm still a bit amateur, I recall something about xmax and excursion being one of the components to being able to produce louder lows (cone size being equal)

while I can't find a 6x9 subwoofer that can fit in the deck for a reasonable price, I also can't find one with xmax higher than 7mm. which is plenty, but 13 is bigger. I really want to avoid putting a subwoofer box in the trunk as I have a few suspension plans will spoil the available room.

I also produce music (mostly bass-heavy Musical Hiphop) so I need the speakers to reach low.


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## gjmallory (Apr 13, 2010)

sqonly said:


> how much bottom end will I lose if I go with sealed and Tang Band?
> 
> Chips, I have tried to stay open minded but I don't think any 8" or 10" is tight enough for me. Tried JL, Kicker, Logitech (Tang Band). I think the bigger cone itself doesn't move back and forth fast enough compared to a 6.5". Now I am sure I can buy ultra high end 8"/10" inch tight accurate subwoofer but I don't have $1000 to spend. That's why I want to go for 6.5".


The number 1 thing you need to do before you start buying equipment is to actually listen to a GOOD system. Based on your comments, I have to assume that you have never heard a system that was tuned and installed correctly...especially if you think that an 8 inch sub isn't Tight and accurate. I didn't notice where you live, but I bet you that someone on this forum would totally be down to let you hear their system. Actually better yet, find a competition and listen to the SQ cars. Don't get me wrong...definitely not dissin you, I was a Noob too! LOL!


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## gjmallory (Apr 13, 2010)

looks like I jumped the gun on my comment...It is obvious you know nothing about car audio...unfortunately...you think you know everything...bummer (for you). DIYMA really is a killer resource if you actually listen.


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## avantgarde (Nov 29, 2010)

gjmallory said:


> The number 1 thing you need to do before you start buying equipment is to actually listen to a GOOD system. Based on your comments, I have to assume that you have never heard a system that was tuned and installed correctly...especially if you think that an 8 inch sub isn't Tight and accurate. I didn't notice where you live, but I bet you that someone on this forum would totally be down to let you hear their system. Actually better yet, find a competition and listen to the SQ cars. Don't get me wrong...definitely not dissin you, I was a Noob too! LOL!


Oh, nah, I'm big on SQ... Was into car audio before i got into Home Audio, now I'm back to car Audio. my previous system was Matched Infinity components (back before you could get them from Best Buy) for the front stage, (they got a bit bright but tuned well, they were crisp without being tiring) For the rear I unplugged the 6x9s in my old Acura Legend which used the same goofy Chassis molded rear subwoofer enclosure and powered my two MB Quart 15" woofers with an XTANT 302a amplifier wired down to 1 ohm. I figured the loss of THD wasn't that big of a deal playing bass. 

They never once got sloppy, and they could run your out of the car with the cabin gain. but didn't sound very loud when you popped the trunk. Even SQ guys commented on the crispness and clarity mixed with the heavy but not booming bass.

I had a HUUUUUUUUGE sealed box though probably around 1.75ft^3 per chamber that couldn't fit under the sub enclosure built into the chassis. so i literally had like 1ft of trunk floorspace courtesy of the slanted box. 

Don't laugh, I stripped the trunk liner out to build a custom trunk... but it took too long to gather the funds for all the material... Good thing too because the car ended up getting totaled by a drunk driver T-boning me 









They played low and clean. That's what I need... but i don't want it to take up that much room. I don't recall ever saying an 8 played sloppy... I'm confused where that accusation comes from. my experience with 8s are limited to say the least. Only 10s 12s and 15s I've been expressly familiar with. I used to drive a minivan with 4 10s in the back :laugh:



EDIT:

Oh i see, nevermind, you were talking to SQonly...


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

What are you trying to do to your car...what you propose makes no sense... go see a real installer, before you hack that car up


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## avantgarde (Nov 29, 2010)

trojan fan said:


> What you are trying to do to your car...what you propose makes no sense... go see a real installer, before you hack that car up


Aside from being rude and making assumptions, have you tried to crunch the numbers? before offering me a suggestion, please do and offer all that is within your breadth of helpful insight...

If you can not, please do not comment. Thanks a bunch


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## avantgarde (Nov 29, 2010)

So... I just did the calculations rough ROUGH numbers

a 6x9 has a cone area roughly 25square inches -- I did the area of 2 triangles 4.5 high by 6 wide... I gave the 6x9 extra breathing room... doing the area of an ellipse is too cumbersome for quick math. 

Maximum xmax i've seen on one of those is 7mm and that one goes for 400 bucks that will drop in... the Tang Band 6x9 subwoofer is not a direct replacement and I refuse to chop up my car to fit stuff...

The Tang Band 6.5" subwoofer i read has a cone diameter of 4.25 i rounded down to 4" and did the xmax of 13 for a full excursion of 26mm (which is just a bit more than an Inch full out to out... 

The 6x9 theoretically (at full exursion) displaces roughly 15 in^3

the 6.5 Subwoofer (handicapped) displaces 13in^3

The difference in price doesn't justify 2 cubic inches of actual air displacement.


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## avantgarde (Nov 29, 2010)

i probably should have started a new thread for this... I am not the original poster... that guy looks to be a knuckle head.

That's what I get for using the "Search" LOL!


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