# Speaker Wire/Interconnects



## prettysweetsounds

_I just recently decided to set up a sweet home theater/stereo system. To do this, I've signed up on a bunch of forums to find some good deals on lightly used gear.

Anyway, while searching for my gear I've noticed alot of threads dealing with cables and speaker wire.

I never realized what some people are spending on cables. Thousands on single cables!!

People actually think that certain manufacturers wire can make there systems sound 'warm' or bring out the higher frequencies. People think that if they use a particular amp or speaker that they need a certain brand of wire.

What the hell is wrong with people??

I've seen adds where people say they've got speaker wire that needs to be 'broken in'. What does that even mean!?

I don't even laugh when I hear this stuff, instead I'm in awe and I feel sorry for people!_


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## JVD240

I was on a website the other day that said they'll break the cables in for you... :laugh:

These people exist here too. :uhoh2:


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## 14642

IN aftermarket car audio, we get to have some personal influence in the design of a system during the installation. In basic home audio, there's little opportunity to have the same influence. Buy a receiver, buy some speakers, hook them up, place the speakers in the appropriate spot. Play music. Move the speaker an inch this way or that way. Listen again. 

In my opinion, all of this cable BS, is a way for home audio peeps to apply some personal preference in a way that can't easily be verified as an upgrade objectively, so there's no right answer and no way for anyone to refute the suggestion that $1000 for a 2-foot power cable to be plugged into a $1 outlet connected to 50 feet of solid 14 gauge copper wire connected to a $3 breaker and then connected to 100 feet of 4 AWG cable that goes to the street. 

Oh, for those people who have thought for 5 seconds about this arrangement, you can now spend $500 on a new outlet that will be connected to 50 feet of solid 14 gauge solid copper wire connected to a $3 breaker...


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## chad

My power feed is much larger than 4Ga, it's also buried which inherently shields it.

Audiophile stuff.


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## minbari

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> IN aftermarket car audio,w e get to have some personal influence in the design of a system during the installation. In basic hope audio, there's little opportunity to have the same influence. Buy a receiver, buy some speakers, hook them up, place the speakers in the appropriate spot. Play music. Move the speaker an inch this way or that way. Listen again.
> 
> In my opinion, all of this cable BS, is a way for home audio peeps to appply some personal preference in a way that can't easily be verified as an upgrade objectively, so there's no right answer and no way for anyone to refute the suggestion that $1000 for a 2-foot power cable to be plugged into a $1 outlet connected to 50 feet of solid 14 gauge copper wire connected to a $3 breaker and then connected to 100 feet of 4 AWG cable that goes to the street.
> 
> *Oh, for those people who have thought for 5 seconds about this arrangement, you can now spend $500 on a new outlet that will be connected to 50 feet of solid 14 gauge solid copper wire connected to a $3 breaker...*


dont forget the $50 a gram silver goop to put on the connections to make them more betterer! it will magically make that 14ga solid core wire better.


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## JVD240

chad said:


> My power feed is much larger than 4Ga, it's also buried which inherently shields it.
> 
> Audiophile stuff.


Mine is 99.999999% solid silver.

For installs I choose wire based on ease of use mostly.


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## minbari

JVD240 said:


> I was on a website the other day that said they'll break the cables in for you... :laugh:
> 
> These people exist here too. :uhoh2:


lol, this is right up there with those companies that sell "special water" where they align the electrons so that the water is more readily absorbable or some other ********.


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## Hillbilly SQ

My speakerwire was blessed by Norwegian hookers. It sounds goooood.


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## chad

JVD240 said:


> Mine is 99.999999% solid silver.
> 
> For installs I choose wire based on ease of use mostly.


If people only knew how much noise can be reduced by simply balancing the load at the panel then all else would be moot. 

I still see studio builders insist that the whole room (audio) be installed and ran on one leg of the service... all that "other stuff" on the other leg... It makes my toenails grow backwards.

"Gee should I run my lighting dimmers on 120V and dump the noise on ground (ultimately your audio shield) or should I run it at 240 and null the noise out?"


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## 14642

My tweeter domes are made from the foreskin of nordic timberwolves.


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## Golden Ear

I love the 'directional' cables. That one kills me.


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## chad

Golden Ear said:


> I love the 'directional' cables. That one kills me.


speaker wires, yeah, but proper balanced sygnal (misspelled on purpose) cable, that is not used for microphones, is directional.

But since PROPER balanced cayble (misspelled on purpose) has XLR's on it it's a psychical given, not just electrically.

My RCA's in my car are rather directional in terms of source to receiving.


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## Golden Ear

chad said:


> speaker wires, yeah, but proper balanced sygnal (misspelled on purpose) cable, that is not used for microphones, is directional.
> 
> But since PROPER balanced cayble (misspelled on purpose) has XLR's on it it's a psychical given, not just electrically.
> 
> My RCA's in my car are rather directional in terms of source to receiving.


Is it the ends of the cables that determine the direction or the copper wire in the middle? That's what I'm talking about. If you're saying on end is male and one end is female then sure that's directional. But if you're saying you have directional RCAs then I'm calling BS.


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## minbari

Golden Ear said:


> Is it the ends of the cables that determine the direction or the copper wire in the middle? That's what I'm talking about. If you're saying on end is male and one end is female then sure that's directional. But if you're saying you have directional RCAs then I'm calling BS.


what if you have RCAs that are triple shielded? well known fact that you dont ground the shield at both ends and you put the grounded end at the source. would that not make them directional?


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## Golden Ear

minbari said:


> what if you have RCAs that are triple shielded? well known fact that you dont ground the shield at both ends and you put the grounded end at the source. would that not make them directional?


Obviously


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## chad

Golden Ear said:


> But if you're saying you have directional RCAs then I'm calling BS.



It is commonly known that proper balanced termination that is not utilizing phantom Powa (Misspelled intentionally) has the shield lifted on the receiving end and grounded on the source end. No matter what connection.

Many car amplifiers have differential inputs, therefore when utilizing a single pair twisted, shielded plastic coated conductor you can impedance balance at the source with passive components, groundd (Misspelled intentionally) the shield there then lift the shield at the receiving end (amplifier) since the amplifar (Misspelled intentionally) has a differential input the common mode rejection of that receiving system will take advantage of the impedance balanced pair nulling out noise, since the shield is lifted and not grounded on the receiving (can't carry current) end OR tied to the inverting input the noise level is further reduced.

So yes, MY RCA's are quite directional, they would be ****ty performers if run the opposite direction.


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## minbari

Golden Ear said:


> Obviously


if you are saying that a basic RCA or speaker wire is directional, then yes. snake oil! 

I have seen companies that claim that treat thier wire with nitrogen infused shark piss to align the electrons to go more efficiently in one direction. this is right up there with companies that claim thier drinking water is more hydrating than other water because they align the molecoles. total BS.


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## chad

minbari said:


> if you are saying that a basic RCA or speaker wire is directional, then yes. snake oil!
> 
> I have seen companies that claim that treat thier wire with nitrogen infused shark piss to align the electrons to go more efficiently in one direction. this is right up there with companies that claim thier drinking water is more hydrating than other water because they align the molecoles. total BS.


My romex is directional..... I bless one end so the electrons flow to the promise land.

Kinda wild with AC because on one swing they are WAY more motivated.


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## minbari

I never found that to be true. those AC electrons are always going back and forth! they never know where they want to go!


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## chad

minbari said:


> I never found that to be true. those AC electrons are always going back and forth! they never know where they want to go!


I've known chicks like that.


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## minbari

lol, those are always the fun ones.


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## SaturnSL1

Funny this thread came up, I recently found a set of NIB Monster RCAs for $3 and for ****s and gigs I decided to look them up on the web to see what people said about them. I found this thread and thought it was pretty funny.

"IMO, cables under $50 (at least the one I've heard) are a waste of $$. When you break the $100 mark, cables start to become more effective, but you are still chasing that last 10% of performance from your system, so spending $250 to get that level of improvement (very significant in terms of what a cable can actually do), may still be disapointing given the level of cash you had to spend to get it." 

Is Monster Interlink 400 MKII that bad?

Tho box itself had some silly stuff written on it too lol.


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## minbari

lol, got to love people that buy into that crap, lol. IMHO cables over $20 are a waste of money, lol.

my favorite is the blind test that Stephen Mantz did. setup a test where two cables were used. one cable was a $10 radio shack and the other an expensive monster cable. he had a switch to switch between the two. people ooohed and ahhhed over how much better the monster cable sounded. In truth the switch did nothing and it was on the radio shack cable all the time.


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## Golden Ear

chad said:


> It is commonly known that proper balanced termination that is not utilizing phantom Powa (Misspelled intentionally) has the shield lifted on the receiving end and grounded on the source end. No matter what connection.
> 
> Many car amplifiers have differential inputs, therefore when utilizing a single pair twisted, shielded plastic coated conductor you can impedance balance at the source with passive components, groundd (Misspelled intentionally) the shield there then lift the shield at the receiving end (amplifier) since the amplifar (Misspelled intentionally) has a differential input the common mode rejection of that receiving system will take advantage of the impedance balanced pair nulling out noise, since the shield is lifted and not grounded on the receiving (can't carry current) end OR tied to the inverting input the noise level is further reduced.
> 
> So yes, MY RCA's are quite directional, they would be ****ty performers if run the opposite direction.


Like Symbilink?

Has a blind test been done on these compared to non directional RCAs? I am truly curious, not trying to sound like a jerk. I'm here to find out what the best is for my car audio setup and if ^^^ those are it then I want it.


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## 14642

Complete and utter ********.


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## minbari

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Complete and utter ********.


not that I am disagreeing, lol. but which part?


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## quality_sound

chad said:


> If people only knew how much noise can be reduced by simply balancing the load at the panel then all else would be moot.
> 
> I still see studio builders insist that the whole room (audio) be installed and ran on one leg of the service... all that "other stuff" on the other leg... *It makes my toenails grow backwards.*
> 
> "Gee should I run my lighting dimmers on 120V and dump the noise on ground (ultimately your audio shield) or should I run it at 240 and null the noise out?"


This **** that comes out of your mouth sometimes... Why have we never hung out? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## quality_sound

I LOVE Monsters but for one reason and one reason only, durability. Yes, they ARE expensive but I have NEVER had one fail on me. By comparison, one of my JL CLR y-adapters was bad out of the box and another failed after a couple of months. I've just not had good luck with inexpensive RCAs. I know I don't NEED expensive cables, and I don't buy them for the "technology", for me it's economics.

I still have set of XLN401s from the mid 90s that works perfectly. I have 3 sets of the 300series (red) and y-adapters, and 3 sets of the 400series I've had since 2007 and they're still great too. 

If I could find something inexpesive that was as durable, I'd run those. If I coudl solder worth a crap I'd make my own.


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## quality_sound

chad said:


> It is commonly known that proper balanced termination that is not utilizing phantom Powa (Misspelled intentionally) has the shield lifted on the receiving end and grounded on the source end. No matter what connection.
> 
> Many car amplifiers have differential inputs, therefore when utilizing a single pair twisted, shielded plastic coated conductor you can impedance balance at the source with passive components, groundd (Misspelled intentionally) the shield there then lift the shield at the receiving end (amplifier) since the amplifar (Misspelled intentionally) has a differential input the common mode rejection of that receiving system will take advantage of the impedance balanced pair nulling out noise, since the shield is lifted and not grounded on the receiving (can't carry current) end OR tied to the inverting input the noise level is further reduced.
> 
> So yes, MY RCA's are quite directional, they would be ****ty performers if run the opposite direction.



What did you have to do to do this? I'm all for learning new stuff and trying new things.


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## chad

Golden Ear said:


> Like Symbilink?
> 
> Has a blind test been done on these compared to non directional RCAs? I am truly curious, not trying to sound like a jerk. I'm here to find out what the best is for my car audio setup and if ^^^ those are it then I want it.


It's common practice for wiring on a professional level, so if you are running balanced, why not do it properly in the car?


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## chad

quality_sound said:


> What did you have to do to do this? I'm all for learning new stuff and trying new things.


http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf

Fig 2.4

But the whole thing is a good read.

http://whirlwindusa.com/support/tech-articles/unbalanced-vs-balanced-lines/

one end lifted


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## robert_wrath

Level with me here, all jokes aside. Which of these 2 cables would you use to wire up your system?


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## chad

First one, or something I made.

The first one COULD actually be better than the second because given that monster has the tendency to put multiple conductors in the core for different frequencies (not ****ting) then parallel them up on both ends.. The lesser will, without a doubt, have a lower capacitance.


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## Golden Ear

Either one. Depends on the price


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## chad

Golden Ear said:


> Either one. Depends on the price


Ok, not fair.... 

If the monster were free


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## minbari

robert_wrath said:


> Level with me here, all jokes aside. Which of these 2 cables would you use to wire up your system?


only reason I would use the monster over the cheapies in a car is the better RCA ends. those cheapies tend to fall off with car and bass vibration. (although some of those monsters grip soo well, you can pull the RCAs right out of the amplifier)

but buy those ends and make your own.


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## robert_wrath

Again,* which of the 2 cables would you use* in your setup?


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## minbari

robert_wrath said:


> Again,* which of the 2 cables would you use* in your setup?


let put it this way. this is what I used for my latest install. 

1) they are cheap
2) they were cheap

StreetWires ZN1210 ZN1 Series 2-Channel Interconnect Cable


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## Hillbilly SQ

I'd use the Rat Shack cable just because I know they're a pretty good "no ********" cable. Actually have one going to my subwoofer amp. It's been in service for 5-6 years now with no problem. I'm currently running a 4 channel Stinger Expert Series cable to my 4ch. For under $20 to my door off egay I couldn't pass that up.


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## quality_sound

The first one because the Monster ends are SO big. I like the size of their 300 Series RCAs.


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## _Nomad_

I urinate on my RCA leads because the uric acid in your urine adds to conductivity and better SQ. Trust me, urinate on your wires and cables.

Pay no attention to the smell.


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## The A Train

Im not a fan of pissing on my cables. Instead I use a mixture of childrens tears and unicorn sperm. Unicorn sperm is tough to come by, but it really does increase the flow of electrons. And many dont know that children tears (i perfer orphan) really help aid in smoothing of conductivity issues in unlike metals.


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## SaturnSL1

robert_wrath said:


> Level with me here, all jokes aside. Which of these 2 cables would you use to wire up your system?


I'll be honest with you, I've used cheap home audio cables like that and Ive never experienced anything odd with them. Like it has been mentioned, the ends are very weak metal and I found myself pinching the outer tabs every few weeks to keep them nice and tight.

That said I'd take the Monster cable for it's style. Has a nice look to it and it feels really durable.

I don't discriminate against RCAs, I do however clean all the jacks and cable ends with alcohol and some Qtips when doing a fresh install. In my opinion a clean and tight connection is way more important than the brand of cable used.


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## inspector3711

McIntosh labs did a speaker wire test years ago. The ONLY difference they found between wires was related to gauge. Heavier wire is mo betta. $1 per foot wire tested the same at the most expensive stuff they tested so long as it was the same gauge.


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## chad

inspector3711 said:


> McIntosh labs did a speaker wire test years ago. The ONLY difference they found between wires was related to gauge. Heavier wire is mo betta. $1 per foot wire tested the same at the most expensive stuff they tested so long as it was the same gauge.




Speaker Wire

Here goes the rest of your evening....
Roger Russell, McIntosh Lab., Scripto and Norma Pencils and leads


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## Fricasseekid

http://xkcd.com/841










"For years I took the wrong lesson from the Monster Cable experiment and only listened to my music through alligator-clipped coat hangers."


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## inspector3711

> Here goes the rest of your evening....


Nah, I'm a fast reader.. Good stuff though.

He mentions aluminum cable briefly. I'm currently using Cadence CCA 4 gauge for a power wire to the subwoofer amp I'm installing. The wire is a bit heavier than most copper 4 gauge out there. It was cheap. My only concern is longevity. I figure I'll inspect it regularly. I'm using Noalox at all the connections to retard corrosion. 

Eventually I'll upgrade to copper but it'll do for now with my budget. I'm reminded here of a 1970 Nova i bought from my grandma back in the 80's. I suddenly lost all battery power sever months after i got the car home. A quick check revealed that the Aluminim OEM battery wires had become brittle and simply snapped. The hot wire was laying loose.

That was my big lesson on aluminum. For now it'll do though.


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## 14642

It's a car. The cable runs are short, amplifiers are voltage sources and the current to the speakers is really low. As far as RCA cables go, I'd make my own so I don't have to hide the left-over crap behind a panel somewhere. 

Gold ends, silver solder, aligned copper molecules--give me a break. Spend the 500 dollars you'd spend on 0 gauge power cable, distribution and fuse blocks, ridiculous RCAs and big-ass speaker cable on a good EQ. The hook-up ******** is exactly that--********.


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## chad

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> It's a car. The cable runs are short,


For those that are oblivious to anything other than home and car audio, the runs in car audio seem huge.

I think that's where a lot of the confusion comes in.


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## SkizeR

inspector3711 said:


> Nah, I'm a fast reader.. Good stuff though.
> 
> He mentions aluminum cable briefly. I'm currently using Cadence CCA 4 gauge for a power wire to the subwoofer amp I'm installing. The wire is a bit heavier than most copper 4 gauge out there. It was cheap. My only concern is longevity. I figure I'll inspect it regularly. I'm using Noalox at all the connections to retard corrosion.
> 
> Eventually I'll upgrade to copper but it'll do for now with my budget. I'm reminded here of a 1970 Nova i bought from my grandma back in the 80's. I suddenly lost all battery power sever months after i got the car home. A quick check revealed that the Aluminim OEM battery wires had become brittle and simply snapped. The hot wire was laying loose.
> 
> That was my big lesson on aluminum. For now it'll do though.


just dip the ends in orphan tears and unicorn sperm like said above and you will be good to go..


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## inspector3711

Unicorn tears haha. Somewhere I've got a picture of a can of unicorn meat....



> Gold ends, silver solder,


Gold protects against corrosion but I don't use it in my home system or in my car although my home speakers all came with plated connectors and jumpers. It's all about marketing and it looks perty. Pointless since they're in the back anyway.

I do use silver solder on my RC cars but only because it's stronger and I can get a 30 foot spool for 7 bucks at the local hobby shop. I went ahead and used it to solder my subwoofer wires inside my enclosure just because it's what I have on hand and I know it's strong. Any benefit for transferring more power would be trivial I'm sure since the silver content is low and it's used in a small area anyway. 

My neighbor died last year. He was a complete snob about home audio. Had $40,000 into his home system. Dedicated power with $500 a piece "noise cancelling" electrical outlets and thousands into speaker wire. Always chasing the holy grail. Claimed my home system just couldn't be worth listening to at $6K so he wouldn't even come check it out when i got it all set up.

Never could quite convince him he was being "had".


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## Fricasseekid

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> It's a car. The cable runs are short, amplifiers are voltage sources and the current to the speakers is really low. As far as RCA cables go, I'd make my own so I don't have to hide the left-over crap behind a panel somewhere.
> 
> Gold ends, silver solder, aligned copper molecules--give me a break. Spend the 500 dollars you'd spend on 0 gauge power cable, distribution and fuse blocks, ridiculous RCAs and big-ass speaker cable on a good EQ. The hook-up ******** is exactly that--********.


So what your saying is coat hangers FTW!?


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## 14642

Yes, a coat hanger would work fine. 

re corrosion: Oh damn. That's why I keep having to pour a coke on the RCA terminals of my amplifier. Corrosion...lol. It's such a huge problem.


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## inspector3711

It's a problem where I live dude... 80% humidity or better 80% of the year. 180 inches of rain annually. It's like a terrarium.

In the house we even have issues. My wife is a guitarist. She has a hygrometer to measure humidity and dehumidifier to help keep her acoustic guitars from gaining too much water weight. Taylor guitars has measured as much as 38 grams of weigh difference between a "dry" guitar and a "wet" one.

Older guitars can have dis-bonding because mold attacks the hide glue they used to assemble them. You have to be careful here if you're into collecting old guitars...

Of course, we live outside of Seattle against the western slopes of the Cascades. The storms stall out and dump. We get quite a bit more rain than they do in Seattle. 

Anyway, my audio wiring in the house has never had issues with corrosion, but copper wire in cars gets real green after a year or two. Probably not an issue for copper, but aluminum becomes brittle when it corrodes. 

Last thing I want is a 4 gauge 12 volt cable sparking up my trunk.


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## inspector3711

Danged double post...


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## Alrojoca

Every experience is different, we may say we can use the cheap RS cables but when that time comes we get something from a good manufacturer for the reliability and durability. 

Maybe times have changed lately, I assume based on the latest debate, and these days even cheap cables are made with real copper. I had bad experiences with durability with Radio Shack cables and many stuff from there. 

I did some testing on my own with RCA interconnects for my home CD player, sub woofer, tried the Gold thick interconnects from RS, tried some monsters in the $30.00 range, tried the thin black plastic cheap cables like the ones pictured on this thread. I even had a basic $10.00 monster rca's that I bought at target (thin garbage). 

All these cables were made in the late 80's to late 90's. I did hear some slight to noticeable difference on the bass frequencies and a few favorable differences with clearer sound between the expensive ones and the cheap ones, maybe it was on my head. The more expensive stuff sounded slightly better. 

Searching on line I came across some cost effective way to get or make good cables. I decided to try it. I bought some professional Guitar cable and some microphone 4 conductor cable. The difference was so significant even the volume increased, I ended up keeping the guitar cables for the CD player and I could never go back to any other cable even though I tried, the difference was huge, the bass was also deeper and deeper. For the subwoofer I kept the 4 conductor microphone cables, the bass was deeper rather than fast and stronger with the guitar cable. Both cables simply were superior to any cable, I even tested a British XO subwoofer cable in the $30.00 range against it.

About 2 years ago the time came to buy extra cables due to another Home theater in the Family Room kitchen. I got those cables from Mono, well you probably know the rest. Out of curiosity I compared it with my CD RCA guitar cables I made and the difference was very small if any at all I could notice. I did not spend extra time testing, maybe I could notice more difference with headphones but at under $5.00 a set for 3 ft, I did not bother to do any more testing. The cables are thicker than anything I have seen, well made and appear to be heavy duty. These are way too thick to use in a car, one cable is as big as 2 of my directional stinger RCA's I have in my car I got for under $25.00


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## Fricasseekid

These days, the majority of cable is copper colored aluminum. If it doesn't say OFC it's probably not copper. 
And y'all keep bringing up durability. Well this isn't something you have to pay loads of money for. Durability isn't found in French braided gold that's fine as silk. It's found in commercial grade gear which is usually cheaper because you aren't paying for the marketing. It's the outer layer that makes a wire durable.


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## quality_sound

Good solder joints make it durable. That's the ONLY place I've had failures.


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## Alrojoca

Yes! solder joints, connectors, insulation and the rest of materials that can make them handle a bit more stress when they are removed.


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## highspeed

quality_sound said:


> Good solder joints make it durable. That's the ONLY place I've had failures.


Yep, what he said. Also good strain relief helps to protect the connections from failure.

BTW - anyone who thinks a coat hanger sounds good shouldn't have anything to do with high fidelity. Just saying.


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## Fricasseekid

Psh...
Wanna see my awards?


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## JVD240

highspeed said:


> BTW - anyone who thinks a coat hanger sounds good shouldn't have anything to do with high fidelity. Just saying.


You must be one of those golden ears who can tell the difference between speaker cables. Interconnects too?


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## highspeed

JVD240 said:


> You must be one of those golden ears who can tell the difference between speaker cables. Interconnects too?


I believe everything makes a difference. Big and small, audible or not. Only you can decide for yourself if the difference is positive and worth the price. 

I would love to see some pictures of award winning stereo systems passing signal with coat hangers... because I've never seen that before. Maybe we aren't actually talking about coat hangers? I was taking the statement literally, they are conductive after all.

In the end, if you or I am pleased with the performance of coat hangers passing signal there's not much to talk about. I guess it was a bit judgmental on my part, sincere apologies to anyone offended.


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## JVD240

The point is, it's simply physics... and what your ear/brain system perceives.

It's been proven that there is no audible difference many times. No, I don't run coat hangers under my carpet but I also don't break the bank on cable that I know makes zero audible difference.

I pick cable based on electrical requirements and work-ability only.

Oh, and I wasn't offended. It's a forum.


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## Fricasseekid

What's really funny is the money spent on high dollar digital cable. Must be difficult for the cables to communicate the subtle nuances between 1 and 0.


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## chad

highspeed said:


> BTW - anyone who thinks a coat hanger sounds good shouldn't have anything to do with high fidelity. Just saying.


Only if they are plastic......


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## minbari

highspeed said:


> Yep, what he said. Also good strain relief helps to protect the connections from failure.
> 
> BTW - anyone who thinks a coat hanger sounds good shouldn't have anything to do with high fidelity. Just saying.


so are you suggesting that a piece of wire made by an "audio company" is more "metaly" than metal used by the coat hang people?

if you dont think a metal coat hanger will conduct, put it across car battery terminals. use bare hands it will make the experiment easier to remember.


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## RNBRAD

Fricasseekid said:


> What's really funny is the money spent on high dollar digital cable. Must be difficult for the cables to communicate the subtle nuances between 1 and 0.


Sometimes they don't even communicate all the information. Not sure where it goes? 

I always assumed it either works or it doesn't. I had an experience a while back that cost me a lot of time and money. I was running HDMI cable through my house. I have two TV's in a bathroom and signal comes from a blu-ray player in another room. I purchased a powered splitter to split the signal to both TV's. anytime I ran signal to both TV's, the first TV powered on with the signal worked, the second one was pixelated and more so than not displayed "no signal". I can reverse this experience if I powered the other tv on first. I could not run both at the same time. Come to find out it was a cheap made HDMI cable going from my blu-ray to splitter. Once I put a monster HDMI in that spot, problem immediately gone. So sometimes those 1 and 0 don't all make it to the intended destination. I'm sure under normal circumstance the cheap HDMI would work great. But in this instance, it required a better quality unit. So it's not as simple as a wire going from point A to point B. I'm still puzzled as to why it worked for one tv and not two. Was only a 6ft cable. Could be a number of things but the better cable fixed the problem and lesson learned.


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## Fricasseekid

Maybe the 1s went left and the 0s went right?


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## Golden Ear

Is it true that some RCA cables will introduce less noise into the system than others? I'm getting engine whine and a turn-on pop in the subwoofer and I'm wondering if my cheap RCAs are the culprit. Has anyone used the cables from Got Wirez? Supposedly they keep out a lot of noise. If like to know if its true before I drop $50 on a pair.


----------



## minbari

depends on the type of RCAs and the transport style.

unbalanced systems will benefit from sheilded cable, twisted pair does nothing for noise rejection.

for balanced systems twisted pair is better.

$50 for an RCA seems exescive to me, I have never paid more than $20 for RCAs.

turn-on pops are ussually either the amplifier or the HU, not the RCAs


----------



## Golden Ear

minbari said:


> depends on the type of RCAs and the transport style.
> 
> unbalanced systems will benefit from sheilded cable, twisted pair does nothing for noise rejection.
> 
> for balanced systems twisted pair is better.
> 
> $50 for an RCA seems exescive to me, I have never paid more than $20 for RCAs.
> 
> turn-on pops are ussually either the amplifier or the HU, not the RCAs


Thanks bud! Is there a brand or particular RCA you would recommend? It's an unbalanced system (pioneer 3400, ms8, pdx v9). I've had engine whine since I put in the headunit but the pop only happens with pdx amps.


----------



## highspeed

I doubt any expensive cables will eliminate your noise problems. Sounds more like a ground issue to me.


----------



## Golden Ear

highspeed said:


> I doubt any expensive cables will eliminate your noise problems. Sounds more like a ground issue to me.


I was going to check that too. Thanks bro


----------



## Hanatsu

Shielding makes a big difference imo. A good shielding can remove some of the noise induced by having the signal cable close to some power line, fuel pump or whatever. If the noise really is induced in the signal cable my first action would be to relocate the wire and see if it helps... As pointed out above, noise induced by faulty grounding is quite common.

There is a specification on most cables, no rocket science. L (inductance) - C (capacitance) and R - resistance. It should be specced per length unit. Seen that manufactures boast about their low capacitance per m/ft on signal cables, on speaker wires it seems they lay more focus on low inductance per m/ft, but idk. Done listening tests on really high end home audio equipment, the difference was slight at best. Couldn't decide if it sounded better or worse. I often recommend people to buy signal cables that's "better" than those standard $5 cables but cheaper than the audiophile stuff. A good quality cable with good RCA ends (5m) and proper shielding tends to cost like 80-100 dollar (at least here in Sweden) if you don't DYI that is.

Much of the cable talk is ridiculous, seen manufacturers spec that their cables have frequency response extension into GHz area... I mean why is that necessary for audio reproduction?


----------



## lakersfan1

Luckily, the real BS in car audio cable and wire has died. My first car stereo was a McIntosh/Dynaudio/Boston system in 1996. The RCA's the dealer sold me on were from a brand called 'Straightwire' (not Streetwire). $300 freaking dollars for a stereo set of RCA's.

Installing the stereo I'm working on right now, I found a old piece of 1/0 gauge Monster Wire. When I cut into it, I realized it had a piece of clear rubber in the middle. The casing said it had 'Magnetic Flux Tube'. WTF ate they talking about? Really? I guess at least it was otherwise solid copper, and not this new CCA crap floating around.


----------



## quality_sound

Straightwire makes VERY high end cable. 

The "magnetic flux tube" actually has copper in it. It's not there to take up space, it serves a purpose. Whether or not it makes an audible difference is debatable, but it wasn't put there to cheat anyone out of their money. Monster typically over sizes their wire and uses OFC copper so you're definitely not getting ripped off there. Interconnects...maybe. Power and speaker wire, absolutely not.


----------



## Golden Ear

Anyone know of some good noise rejecting interconnects?


----------



## quality_sound

Wirez out of Canada. 

Gotwirez.com


----------



## robert_wrath

Minbari has seen me post this one on another thread:


----------



## therapture

I would put money on a blind test...that 99% of the people here could not tell the difference between coat hangar wire and expensive speaker cable.

I think that test has already been done...


----------



## minbari

robert_wrath said:


> Minbari has seen me post this one on another thread:


Yup, that is a good one :thumbup:

sent from my phone using digital farts


----------



## 1fishman

lakersfan1 said:


> Luckily, the real BS in car audio cable and wire has died. My first car stereo was a McIntosh/Dynaudio/Boston system in 1996. The RCA's the dealer sold me on were from a brand called 'Straightwire' (not Streetwire). $300 freaking dollars for a stereo set of RCA's.


If your Straight Wire RCA's are "Maestro's" you could probably get a good price for them. If you still have or want to get ride of them send me a PM 

I also spent $300 on StraightWire Maestro series .5 meter interconnects.( the only interconnect that i could tell a solid difference with.) That was back in 1990. It made a very dramatic sound difference in my home audio system. 
So much of a difference i would swap the cables for friends to hear for themselves. Even my wife could tell something had changed. Now weather the sound difference was for the better could be subjective. For me the sound was much more spacious and detailed and that was pretty much unanimous. 

Sold those RCA's on ebay for $200 back in 2001. 

I Started looking for used pair of Maestros to experiment with car audio. It looks like the Maestros bring even more $$$ now they have been discontinued.


----------



## Mcnulty

I remember back in the 90's stinger was (for me at least) impossible to buy :laugh: I few years back I bought all the cables I need for less than 75.00 
Amazon.com: SI429 - Stinger 9 Ft. 2-Channel 4000 Series RCA Interconnect Cable: Electronics

They are still 100%


----------



## 14642

OMG. Not this BS again...


----------



## minbari

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> OMG. Not this BS again...


lol, you cant have dogma without people to perpetuate it.


----------



## GlassWolf

prettysweetsounds said:


> _I just recently decided to set up a sweet home theater/stereo system. To do this, I've signed up on a bunch of forums to find some good deals on lightly used gear.
> 
> Anyway, while searching for my gear I've noticed alot of threads dealing with cables and speaker wire.
> 
> I never realized what some people are spending on cables. Thousands on single cables!!
> 
> People actually think that certain manufacturers wire can make there systems sound 'warm' or bring out the higher frequencies. People think that if they use a particular amp or speaker that they need a certain brand of wire.
> 
> What the hell is wrong with people??
> 
> I've seen adds where people say they've got speaker wire that needs to be 'broken in'. What does that even mean!?
> 
> I don't even laugh when I hear this stuff, instead I'm in awe and I feel sorry for people!_


One place wire does make a difference is with turntable tone arms and pre-amps. the inductance, capacitance, and resistance of the wire can make a tremendous difference in the overall performance, especially when you're dealing with MC cartridges with very low output voltages.

Really if you pay attention to the resistance, capacitance, and inductance of the wire and length, you can find everything you need to know. I build my own cables for home theater and home audio applications, both for interconnects and speakers.


----------



## chad

GlassWolf said:


> One place wire does make a difference is with turntable tone arms and pre-amps. the inductance, capacitance, and resistance of the wire can make a tremendous difference in the overall performance, especially when you're dealing with MC cartridges with very low output voltages.
> 
> Really if you pay attention to the resistance, capacitance, and inductance of the wire and length, you can find everything you need to know. I build my own cables for home theater and home audio applications, both for interconnects and speakers.


Like a boss... And as you have noted, real wire has the specifications available


----------



## Roadbird

From post number 8:

"My speakerwire was blessed by Norwegian hookers. It sounds goooood. "

Contact information please.


----------



## mr. fusion

I used quad shielded RG6 to make my RCA's.....


----------



## chad

mr. fusion said:


> I used quad shielded RG6 to make my RCA's.....


you know they make compression RCA connectors for RG6 right?

Love those things... use it for digital interconnects a bunch.


----------



## mr. fusion

chad said:


> you know they make compression RCA connectors for RG6 right?
> 
> Love those things... use it for digital interconnects a bunch.


yes sir, they are a damn sight better that what was available when I was installing C-Band, lol I have the compression crimpers too!

I really have used RG6 for long RCA runs in home audio, it's more reliable that standard RCA cables.


----------



## chad

mr. fusion said:


> yes sir, they are a damn sight better that what was available when I was installing C-Band,


Word.....


----------



## GlassWolf

If you want some good coax cable for making your own unbalanced interconnects, this is what I use:

BJC LC-1 coax cable


----------



## silver6

Did someone say interconnects!?!?

Recoton AC211 Stereo RCA Patch Cable 6 ft. 249-062


----------



## DonH

been making RCA's with cat5 for a while now... Love them  

also to comment on the power wire, i laugh at the price point of some wire! I snagged up some Audison Connection cable from a local dealer for a great price. He told me the dealer price per roll of 1/0... I was SHOCKED! I wont disclose the amount but at $700+ for 50ft or 1/0 is insane...


----------



## mr. fusion

DonH said:


> been making RCA's with cat5 for a while now... Love them
> 
> also to comment on the power wire, i laugh at the price point of some wire! I snagged up some Audison Connection cable from a local dealer for a great price. He told me the dealer price per roll of 1/0... I was SHOCKED! I wont disclose the amount but at $700+ for 50ft or 1/0 is insane...



RCA's with cat5 huh? do tell.......


----------



## minbari

It works quite well if you want twisted pair. 4pairs in a cable 

sent from my phone using digital farts now Free


----------



## ScaryfatkidGT

quality_sound said:


> Good solder joints make it durable. That's the ONLY place I've had failures.





Alrojoca said:


> Yes! solder joints, connectors, insulation and the rest of materials that can make them handle a bit more stress when they are removed.


This is exactly why I don't buy radio shack stuff, it always fails on me and the "wire" type and gauge doesn't really matter if it barley makes it threw the joint to the plug



Fricasseekid said:


> What's really funny is the money spent on high dollar digital cable. Must be difficult for the cables to communicate the subtle nuances between 1 and 0.


Agreed, long runs of HDMI aside its pretty funny and even then you just need larger gauge wire.



minbari said:


> so are you suggesting that a piece of wire made by an "audio company" is more "metaly" than metal used by the coat hang people?
> 
> if you dont think a metal coat hanger will conduct, put it across car battery terminals. use bare hands it will make the experiment easier to remember.


K on the coat hangar think, steel does conduct differently than copper but the gauge of the hangar should make up for it.

I always wonder why people pay for $1000 speaker wire instead of using 1/0awg solid ofc "wires" suspended in a vacuum bent around there room or something, seems like that would make more sense than the "special" audiophile BS cable claims.

I actually like the cheapest Audioquest interconnects like $30 for 2 meters but its nicely braided the end plugs have the perfect tension, but I'm not paying double for polished wire or quadruple for silver in the cable.


----------



## ScaryfatkidGT

_Nomad_ said:


> I urinate on my RCA leads because the uric acid in your urine adds to conductivity and better SQ. Trust me, urinate on your wires and cables.
> 
> Pay no attention to the smell.


....



Andy Wehmeyer said:


> IN aftermarket car audio, we get to have some personal influence in the design of a system during the installation. In basic home audio, there's little opportunity to have the same influence. Buy a receiver, buy some speakers, hook them up, place the speakers in the appropriate spot. Play music. Move the speaker an inch this way or that way. Listen again.
> 
> In my opinion, all of this cable BS, is a way for home audio peeps to apply some personal preference in a way that can't easily be verified as an upgrade objectively, so there's no right answer and no way for anyone to refute the suggestion that $1000 for a 2-foot power cable to be plugged into a $1 outlet connected to 50 feet of solid 14 gauge copper wire connected to a $3 breaker and then connected to 100 feet of 4 AWG cable that goes to the street.
> 
> Oh, for those people who have thought for 5 seconds about this arrangement, you can now spend $500 on a new outlet that will be connected to 50 feet of solid 14 gauge solid copper wire connected to a $3 breaker...


My thoughts all along, with speaker wire, what about the wiring in the amp? Ok so you got audiophile amps and pre amps, but what about the jumpers from the terminals to the speakers in the speaker? I bet they are not $1000 a foot wire cuz the company spent all there money where it matters into the enclosure and speakers them selves.



inspector3711 said:


> My neighbor died last year. He was a complete snob about home audio. Had $40,000 into his home system. Dedicated power with $500 a piece "noise cancelling" electrical outlets and thousands into speaker wire. Always chasing the holy grail. Claimed my home system just couldn't be worth listening to at $6K so he wouldn't even come check it out when i got it all set up.
> 
> Never could quite convince him he was being "had".


That is unfortunate, any system that someone has spend over $1000, for 2 speakers and an amp, on (maybe even $500) deserves to be listened too.


----------



## quality_sound

ScaryfatkidGT said:


> I'm not paying double for polished wire or quadruple for silver in the cable.


Silver is absolutely worth paying for.


----------



## Hanatsu

I few years back I bought 3ft 99,9% pure solid silver cable (18ga). Cost me like $50 or so. I built two passive crossovers for a friend and he insisted he wanted solid silver cable between each component for some reason. The damn cable was almost more expensive than all the components combined...


----------



## sienna12

Is there any reason that this wire cannot be used as speaker wire? I have no problems paying for something that will actually help, but some companies are asking quite a bit per foot. 

Tinned Copper Primary Wire for Boats 12 AWG x 25&apos; | eBay


----------



## robert_wrath

sienna12 said:


> Is there any reason that this wire cannot be used as speaker wire? I have no problems paying for something that will actually help, but some companies are asking quite a bit per foot.
> 
> Tinned Copper Primary Wire for Boats 12 AWG x 25&apos; | eBay


One may opt to use this as speaker cable. Now the question is:
What percentages of it is Copper to Tin/Aluminum?


----------



## Golden Ear

That stuff is single wire, not 2-strand like speaker wire. Other than that it should work. Pure copper is preferable but not necessary.


----------



## sienna12

You're absolutely right, I had a brain fart and didn't realize it's just a single wire. OK, thank you, carry on!


----------



## Golden Ear

sienna12 said:


> You're absolutely right, I had a brain fart and didn't realize it's just a single wire. OK, thank you, carry on!


Look into KnuKonceptz speaker wire. You can find it on amazon relatively cheap and it's good stuff.


----------



## Roadbird

The wire on Ebay LOOKS like stranded. I sent a question to the seller and he answered that it was stranded wire.
Roadbird


----------



## REGULARCAB

Ive always just run to Lowes and grabbed the RCA brand speaker wires when i needed some. Probably not the best bang for the buck but always handy.


----------



## Mahna Mahna

So in terms of speaker wire size, would 12 ga be too big for the speakers and subs? if so, what would be best?


----------



## Golden Ear

In my install 16 guage is a good size for speakers and 12 guage is good for subs. I've used 10 guage for subs in that past but couldn't tell the difference. I have 150 watts per channel going thru my 16 guage and 1200 watts going thru my 12 guage.


----------



## Mahna Mahna

Golden Ear said:


> In my install 16 guage is a good size for speakers and 12 guage is good for subs. I've used 10 guage for subs in that past but couldn't tell the difference. I have 150 watts per channel going thru my 16 guage and 1200 watts going thru my 12 guage.


I'm moving in this direction. Will probably go with Streetwires just because i like the "blue" look.


----------



## Golden Ear

I too like blue. I went with knu konceptz wiring from amazon. It's very well priced for ofc speaker wire. And it's blue!


----------



## steveholt

i need to do some inspections of my own. at times the audio on my right side is inconsistent and cuts out then cuts back in


----------



## gstokes

Maybe someone should make a "speaker wire dyno" so the greenhorn with the 14-gauge twisted-pair balanced-input triple-shielded DMX cables can make sure they're getting all the power they should be to their 45w rms drivers 
Edited because i forgot about using gold plated connectors, roflmfao.......


----------



## gstokes

sienna12 said:


> Is there any reason that this wire cannot be used as speaker wire? I have no problems paying for something that will actually help, but some companies are asking quite a bit per foot.
> 
> Tinned Copper Primary Wire for Boats 12 AWG x 25&apos; | eBay


Price vs Performance - probably not..


----------



## gstokes

Mahna Mahna said:


> So in terms of speaker wire size, would 12 ga be too big for the speakers and subs? if so, what would be best?


no, but it's overkill even for big subs. 16 gauge is fine for the main channels and 14 gauge is adequate for the majority of subwoofers. use whatever you feel comfortable with but try to think price/performance and determine if the added expense is really worth the (if any at all) gains..


----------



## gstokes

All wire incurs voltage drop and this voltage drop increases exponentially with length, as an example if we were using a 75w signal to drive a speaker we would first determine amperage through the circuit so with a supply voltage of 12vdc we would have 6.25 amps running sprints back and forth between the amp and the speaker, if the wire run is 2 feet from amp to speaker that is 4 feet total back and forth and with 18 gauge wire the voltage would drop to 11.835, with 16 gauge the voltage drop decreases to 11.896, with 14 gauge voltage increased at load to 11.935, 12 gauge = 11.959, 10 gauge 11.974vdc at load, jump all the way up to 4 gauge welding cables and the load voltage is still only 11.994... Bump the wattage to 400W and 33.3 amps with that same 4 gauge cable and you still have 11.966VDC at the load.. If you notice the size of the cable and price is increasing exponentially but the decreases in voltage drop become millivolt after a certain point and you have to weigh out the price/performance ratio to see if the expense is worth the gain, if i was pumping 400w to my sub I would not be too concerned with gaining .5 millivolts by using big azz expensive cables but like that guy on TV says, it's your money spend it like you want it..


----------



## Infinity

Using some CAT 5 or 6 wire should allow one to make 4 channel interconnects, right? Would someone know where to get boots for that?


----------



## Infinity

Using some CAT 5 or 6 wire should allow one to make 4 channel interconnects, right? Would someone know where to get boots for that?


----------



## Gary S

- Silver wire won't suffer from corrosion problems at the connections... while silver can corrode, the silver oxide is even more conductive than the silver itself. This is why they use silver in military ships. If and in what cases this is any benefit to consumer audio products is debatable.

- Bi-wiring does reduce a type of distortion.

- Oh, and twisted-pair low level cables can help reduce noise in cars... the telephone company has been doing it for over 100 years - over 33-trillion served!

The rest is all snake oil.

If you want better sound in your home, learn all you can about speakers. If you want better sound in your car, research speakers, speaker placement, and installation.


----------



## quality_sound

I have never seen ANY silver cables in any Air Force aircraft, vehicles, or systems.


----------



## Gary S

^^^ silver fuses


----------



## 14642

This is a parody site, right?


----------



## theoldguy

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> This is a parody site, right?


has been since Ant took over


----------



## LumbermanSVO

Someone mentioned earlier that the signal cable runs in cars are laughably short compared to the pro sound world. I can guarantee that this statement is true, and there is very little thought put into how "nice" the signal cables are in the prosound world, yet noise isn't an issue for them. Yeah, XLR cables are balanced and all, but there are plenty of situations where a 1/4" non-balanced cable runs out of something and into a DI box, yet there is still no noise.

And at every show I've ever worked, signal cable is run with power cable all the time. The snake running from the stage to FOH and back often has a power run with it, yet there is no noise.

So I have to ask, why is the car, with it's 12vDC power and short signal runs, so much different than a stage with 240V AC and absurdly long signal runs?


----------



## RNBRAD

LumbermanSVO said:


> Someone mentioned earlier that the signal cable runs in cars are laughably short compared to the pro sound world. I can guarantee that this statement is true, and there is very little thought put into how "nice" the signal cables are in the prosound world, yet noise isn't an issue for them. Yeah, XLR cables are balanced and all, but there are plenty of situations where a 1/4" non-balanced cable runs out of something and into a DI box, yet there is still no noise.
> 
> And at every show I've ever worked, signal cable is run with power cable all the time. The snake running from the stage to FOH and back often has a power run with it, yet there is no noise.
> 
> So I have to ask, why is the car, with it's 12vDC power and short signal runs, so much different than a stage with 240V AC and absurdly long signal runs?


Ignition noise, fuel injector noise, fuel pump noise, alternator noise, fan blower noise. Basically a lot of RFI, EMP, EPI, and AFI that pro audio equipment in a stage setup is not bombarded with. The noise usually goes away when your turn the car off. That's the difference.


----------



## Golden Ear

RNBRAD said:


> Ignition noise, fuel injector noise, fuel pump noise, alternator noise, fan blower noise. Basically a lot of RFI, EMP, EPI, and AFI that pro audio equipment in a stage setup is not bombarded with. The noise usually goes away when your turn the car off. That's the difference.


Beat me to it. Well said!


----------



## _Nomad_

I pee on my amps because the olfaction in my urine interacts with the electron modulations on a quantum level. 

Sure, my home and cars smell like piss, but it's science, and I'm all about that.


----------



## graceparker

Its ******** trully


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I noticed that my factory speaker wire is twisted as far as I could see. Going to my 4ch Navone LOC I twisted cheap 18g wire from the doors to the LOC and my noise floor is the lowest it's even been even with my amp gains nearly maxed out from the low output voltage from my mini dsp. Did twisting the wire really help or did I just get lucky? With a zero bit track it's dead silent. This is with the basic factory headunit. Simple, easy to work with, NO BS!


----------



## Jepalan

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I noticed that my factory speaker wire is twisted as far as I could see. Going to my 4ch Navone LOC I twisted cheap 18g wire from the doors to the LOC and my noise floor is the lowest it's even been even with my amp gains nearly maxed out from the low output voltage from my mini dsp. Did twisting the wire really help or did I just get lucky? With a zero bit track it's dead silent. This is with the basic factory headunit. Simple, easy to work with, NO BS!


Probably just got lucky. Did you make RTA measurements to compare? Go back and untwist the wires and change *nothing* else. Measure the noise level with zero-bit track. Go back to twisted, measure and compare.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Jepalan said:


> Probably just got lucky. Did you make RTA measurements to compare? Go back and untwist the wires and change *nothing* else. Measure the noise level with zero-bit track. Go back to twisted, measure and compare.


Don't have an rta. If the noise ain't audible I consider it dead silent. Now when I add real tweeters to the sails it might be a different story, but the Scan 5f is pretty revealing too. Untwisting the wires would require me to completely tear my install apart. Simply not worth it for a test that really won't matter in the end. When I ran the wires for the LOC I had no intentions of ever pulling it out. Whoever owns the truck after me will have two runs of speaker wire going into each front door and one run going into each back door. If I decide to tinker with rear fill and have one processor to run the whole ordeal I'll use what I ran into the back doors to run the rear fill.


----------



## V7Sport73

prettysweetsounds said:


> _I just recently decided to set up a sweet home theater/stereo system. To do this, I've signed up on a bunch of forums to find some good deals on lightly used gear.
> 
> Anyway, while searching for my gear I've noticed alot of threads dealing with cables and speaker wire.
> 
> I never realized what some people are spending on cables. Thousands on single cables!!
> 
> People actually think that certain manufacturers wire can make there systems sound 'warm' or bring out the higher frequencies. People think that if they use a particular amp or speaker that they need a certain brand of wire.
> 
> What the hell is wrong with people??
> 
> I've seen adds where people say they've got speaker wire that needs to be 'broken in'. What does that even mean!?
> 
> I don't even laugh when I hear this stuff, instead I'm in awe and I feel sorry for people!_


Yes, better audio cables do make an audible difference. If you don't listen to your system that closely than it doesn't really matter. As a licensed electrician you'll never convince me that power cables will make a difference. As long as you have the properly sized power wire they will all sound the same. Some people claim it does, but if any improvements were made it was at the connection point of the power source. That can make a difference. However, when it comes to the audio side of the system, the speaker cables and interconnects, higher quality cables will make an audible difference. I didn't believe this until I spent time listing to it myself. You don't have to spend huge amounts of money on them to hear the difference. Just make sure that it's quality copper and a fairly large gauge wire. I saw several posts here about Monster Cables. Personally I think they are over priced mediocre product. Many of the Monster cables on the market are fake copy's. So buyer beware! You'd be much better purchasing cable from a site like JL Audio. The cables they have are extremely reasonably priced for what you are getting. And yes you can hear the difference!


----------



## Jepalan

V7Sport73 said:


> Yes, better audio cables do make an audible difference.
> <snip>
> However, <snip>, the speaker cables and interconnects, higher quality cables will make an audible difference.
> <snip>
> I didn't believe this until I spent time listing to it myself.
> <snip>
> And yes you can hear the difference!


I disagree completely. Especially as relates to speaker wire. I am an advocate of buying the cheapest zip cord or landscape lighting wire you can find for speaker wire. I have many audiophile friends with super-expensive speaker wire & audio setups - we have done numerous ad-hoc blind swap tests of speaker wire on cheap systems and expensive systems and have never been able to hear a difference in any way whatsoever. 

If you changed out your wires and heard a difference it is because you wanted to. (in my opinion)

As far as other audio cables, the only difference is between the very cheapest, poorly shielded or poorly constructed cable and the next level of cheap cables. Anything from Monoprice.com is more than adequate and is a tenth of the price of Monster and other "smoke and mirrors" brands.


----------



## V7Sport73

Jepalan said:


> I disagree completely. Especially as relates to speaker wire. I am an advocate of buying the cheapest zip cord or landscape lighting wire you can find for speaker wire. I have many audiophile friends with super-expensive speaker wire & audio setups - we have done numerous ad-hoc blind swap tests of speaker wire on cheap systems and expensive systems and have never been able to hear a difference in any way whatsoever.
> 
> If you changed out your wires and heard a difference it is because you wanted to. (in my opinion)
> 
> As far as other audio cables, the only difference is between the very cheapest, poorly shielded or poorly constructed cable and the next level of cheap cables. Anything from Monoprice.com is more than adequate and is a tenth of the price of Monster and other "smoke and mirrors" brands.


What is the old saying here?? You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink it? We are all entitled to our opinions. I have personally heard the difference. I'm thinking I'll spend around $250.00 on my cables and speaker wire on the current install. Money well spent!


----------



## Hanatsu

Sigh... cables. I've tested $2 RCAs and $3000 ones. Sounds the same, measures the same. 

Buy decent cables with good connectors and noise reject properties. If you wanna do them yourself, get some random microphone cable. Don't tell me that you need xxxxxx dollar system to hear any difference. Everyone keeps equal cost with performance, even though it's in many cases complete BS. I've tested tons of equipment performing better than 10 times as expensive products.


----------



## Bayboy

Xscorpion rca cords have become my favorite! Supet cheap, durable, right angled on one end for tight places, and not a single drop of noise when I've run them right next to a power wire down the side of a vehicle. I'm not going to pay ridiculous amounts trying to hear something that isn't there.


----------



## gijoe

V7Sport73 said:


> What is the old saying here?? You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink it? We are all entitled to our opinions. I have personally heard the difference. I'm thinking I'll spend around $250.00 on my cables and speaker wire on the current install. Money well spent!


I'm not trying to pick on you, but the entire purpose of this sub-forum is to dispel the myths with actual fact. It's fine to use higher end cables if you want, but this forum is discussing why they may or may not make a difference. 

The data shows that as long as they are shielded well and appropriately sized there will not be the possibility for audible differences. Saying that they make a difference because you heard a difference is fine, but not helpful for a topic intended to use fact to either prove or disprove the myth.


----------



## Hanatsu

Speaker Wire

Matrix HiFi --> Blind testing high end full equipments

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Cables, Interconnects and Other Stuff - The Truth

Link me to ONE test that have conclusive results that high-end cables are better/audibly different than "standard" ones in terms of SQ.


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## quality_sound

V7Sport73 said:


> And yes you can hear the difference!


A difference doesn't not mean it's an improvement. MIT cables with the networks make a HUGE difference in the sound, but is it better? Debatable.


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## Jepalan

V7Sport73 said:


> What is the old saying here?? You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink it? We are all entitled to our opinions. I have personally heard the difference. I'm thinking I'll spend around $250.00 on my cables and speaker wire on the current install. Money well spent!


I've got some magic beans that will increase the damping factor of your amplifier if you place them in exactly the right spot on top of the amp 1/4" from the speaker connections. You have never heard warm natural bass until you try these. Trust me. I've heard it with my own ears.

PM me for a price. I've only got one packet left. Letting it go for a steal at $1250.


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## Infinity

Mmmmmmm, beans.

I'm still using some Phoenix Gold 16ga that I bought as a PartsExpress closeout probably 20 years ago. It has the blue jacketing. I ran it in my cars for years, and right now my HT is wired with it (no slouch, Paradigm Monitor 11's and matching center/dipole surrounds). It hasn't corroded, and has seen anywhere from 2000 watts (yes, through 16) to the current 250. No audible differences between that and any other wire I've ever used


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## rxonmymind

Jepalan said:


> I've got some magic beans that will increase the damping factor of your amplifier if you place them in exactly the right spot on top of the amp 1/4" from the speaker connections. You have never heard warm natural bass until you try these. Trust me. I've heard it with my own ears.
> 
> PM me for a price. I've only got one packet left. Letting it go for a steal at $1250.


Did you get these from a Sumatra monkeys butt by any chance?  
Too funny.

Seriously though it gets ridiculous. I was at a home audio show in Germany once and there on display was a magnificent speaker. 7' high with beautiful wood craftsmanship. The speaker wires were at least 1/2 thick. Blew my mind. You could have easily pulled a big rig with that cable.


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