# Out with Polyglass, bring in the new Flax line



## subwoofery

Flax sandwich cone - Focal 

There's also a new 3" driver :thumbsup: 
PS 165 F3 - Focal 
http://www.focal.com/en/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=3966 

Enjoy!
Kelvin


----------



## rexroadj

Very interesting! I will be anxious to hear them. It makes a lot of sense..... They look pretty great too! (imo).
Wonder what the costs will be like? 

Anywho, thanks for posting!


----------



## subwoofery

Nothing else to add from other members? 

I too am eager to hear them - Polyglass line always has been an underrated line from Focal... 

Kelvin


----------



## rexroadj

subwoofery said:


> I too am eager to hear them - Polyglass line always has been an underrated line from Focal...
> 
> Kelvin


Couldnt agree more! Especially the subs


----------



## sjr033

Did anyone else notice the "Serial number engraved on the surround" that they are pointing out as a feature? Trying to stop the fakes and gray-market stuff?


----------



## subwoofery

Good catch... Didn't even notice that. Thanks 

Kelvin


----------



## sirbOOm

Those look great! I'll look for a demo.


----------



## Genxx

Those look amazing, speaker porn. Would be nice to hear them and see a full review.


----------



## subwoofery

Same here, can't wait for our rep to receive them... 

For those that did not read it: 
http://www.focal.com/fr/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=3976

Kelvin


----------



## urban

Has anyone listened to these speakers? Specially interested in how the PS 165 FX stand to the old PS 165.


----------



## Jcharger13

One of the sexyest component sets that I've seen. Would love to see/hear them in person.


----------



## chithead

Awesome what they are doing with the woofer cone... but will the tweeters still suck like all their others?


----------



## MacLeod

Man those are beauties. Way to go Focal, one of the last few brands making high end car audio speakers. I want so bad to run Focal speakers. I wish to God they sold raw drivers. I dont want to spend $200 on a set of crossovers I will never use but it would almost be worth it. Ive always loved their sound. Cant wait to see how these sound.


----------



## [email protected]

Since these are made of natural fibers, I bet they are more natural sounding.. Just like amps made in Florida sound warmer..
Hhahaha..a.....

Those are pretty. I wonder if I will ever get to hear them...


----------



## rton20s

I'm holding out for AudioFrog and the Andy Wehmeyer Signature Edition Ecstasy Cones.


----------



## JVD240

I always loved the polyglass mids.

Interested to hear these... or hear what people think of them.


----------



## MacLeod

rton20s said:


> I'm holding out for AudioFrog and the Andy Wehmeyer Signature Edition Ecstasy Cones.


Aren't those the ones that are made from the pubic hairs of arctic timber wolves? Been dying to hear those. 

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk.


----------



## rton20s

No, I think there was talk of using the foreskin of nordic timberwolf pups, but the plans were scrapped. These cones are literally made of ecstasy. Supposedly designed specifically for EDM. 



MacLeod said:


> Aren't those the ones that are made from the pubic hairs of arctic timber wolves? Been dying to hear those.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk.


----------



## basshead

In their white paper it's funny that their graph don't compare to paper cone, I wonder why...

But they do look cool


----------



## The Performer

Boss just got back from France getting the tour f the factory and got to listen to them. Says they sound great. As soon as we get the first order in I'll make sure we put them on the board and hear them for myself. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## urban

Well, I'm waiting for a review to decide between PS 165, F, FX or KR. My budget is high enough for the KR, but I don't know if they're worth the difference. 
FX are better on paper than PS or KR, I think. But I can't quite get if the 10Hz difference on lows and globally lower impedance are worth the extra 80 usd from the F to the FX. I won't be using the crossover, which is one of the major differences though.


----------



## The Performer

urban said:


> Well, I'm waiting for a review to decide between PS 165, F, FX or KR. My budget is high enough for the KR, but I don't know if they're worth the difference.
> FX are better on paper than PS or KR, I think. But I can't quite get if the 10Hz difference on lows and globally lower impedance are worth the extra 80 usd from the F to the FX. I won't be using the crossover, which is one of the major differences though.


Don't just follow a review. Let your ears decide. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## subwoofery

Knowing what I know about Focal, I would go with the FX over the KR. 

When I played with the V30 Polyglass set, I felt that it was better than the KR2 set and much closer in clarity and openness to the KRX2 set than the price difference will let you believe... 
Try to look at your mounting depth, you might not have enough space for the FX, then I'd still recommend you go with the F over the KR. 

My opinion without even hearing the Flax line, so take it with a grain of salt 
Kelvin


----------



## MacLeod

subwoofery said:


> Knowing what I know about Focal, I would go with the FX over the KR.
> 
> When I played with the V30 Polyglass set, I felt that it was better than the KR2 set and much closer in clarity and openness to the KRX2 set than the price difference will let you believe...
> Try to look at your mounting depth, you might not have enough space for the FX, then I'd still recommend you go with the F over the KR.
> 
> My opinion without even hearing the Flax line, so take it with a grain of salt
> Kelvin


This is not the first time I've heard this. I've heard from more than a few people that the Polyglass is the better speaker compared to the K2P despite costing half as much. I've only heard the K2P's so I can't say myself but since I keep hearing the same thing, gotta be something to it. That would make the Polyglass about the best speaker out there dollar for dollar cause the K2P is a pretty damn good sounding set. 

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk.


----------



## urban

Yeah, from what I've read and listened, I think the PS was one of the best speaker per dollar too. But the new cones are from this new material, Flax.
On paper they can be crossed over 1000Hz higher than the V30s, but on low frequencies the resonance point is a bit higher on the FX than on the V30, so I don't know if they'll have better bass response.


----------



## blackedoutavy

Any time frame on when these will hit the states and the pricing?

I was thinking about getting another set of V30s for my new install but the 3 ways look interesting.


----------



## NoAudioFile

The moment Focal put these on their website I ask my dealer and he called the rep. Won't be in the states until next year if I remember correctly. Europe has them or should have them within a month I think.


----------



## 09tc

I am looking forward to the new line. I have used the krx2 component set 2 years ago and I just recently bought a poly-glass line set. Given the price point I prefer the poly-glass line, to me its a bargain. With the right tune, I cannot hear a difference.


----------



## blackedoutavy

Damn can't wait that long. Guess I'll have to go with V30 again.


----------



## psychon

blackedoutavy said:


> Damn can't wait that long. Guess I'll have to go with V30 again.



If you can wait a bit, i would HIGHLY suggest you do... :rockon:

FLAX > POLYGLASS (at least the midrange and tweets which we've tested/listened to).





Midbass next. Please see https://www.facebook.com/musicomobileaudio?fref=ts for updates


----------



## NoAudioFile

Sucks that the US never really get the good stuff or most of the time we wait while the rest of the world enjoys it.


----------



## 09tc

NoAudioFile said:


> Sucks that the US never really get the good stuff or most of the time we wait while the rest of the world enjoys it.


I'm sure Orca is doing their best to get the line imported over here timely.


----------



## NoAudioFile

09tc said:


> I'm sure Orca is doing their best to get the line imported over here timely.


Not saying Orca in particular but in general. For example the US no longer have higher end Alpines. Would you like the option of purchasing something like this?


----------



## MacLeod

psychon said:


> If you can wait a bit, i would HIGHLY suggest you do... :rockon:
> 
> FLAX > POLYGLASS (at least the midrange and tweets which we've tested/listened to).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midbass next. Please see https://www.facebook.com/musicomobileaudio?fref=ts for updates













If that is your shop's work, well done. Absolutely love these pods and their factory look.


----------



## Mrimstad

Focal PS 165 F3 - PS 165 F3 är ett 6,5" (165mm) 3-vägs kitsystem på 160W (Max) i Expert-serien ifrån Focal. - PM-Shopen
Seems to be available.
Altough i can not document on the 1-3 days of manufacturer delivery they state, at least its upp for orders.


----------



## 09tc

NoAudioFile said:


> Not saying Orca in particular but in general. For example the US no longer have higher end Alpines. Would you like the option of purchasing something like this?


I agree I would like the option


----------



## xpsvwino

psychon said:


> If you can wait a bit, i would HIGHLY suggest you do... :rockon:
> 
> FLAX > POLYGLASS (at least the midrange and tweets which we've tested/listened to).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midbass next. Please see https://www.facebook.com/musicomobileaudio?fref=ts for updates


Have you tested the Focal 165 W-RC and if so, how do they compare to the new flax models?

Thanks for your input,
Gary


----------



## Octave

chithead said:


> Awesome what they are doing with the woofer cone... but will the tweeters still suck like all their others?


I really do get tired of hearing this. My experience is no one tunes them right. I'm very sensitive in the higher frequencies and this caused me to learn how to tune them. Now I have no issues with the Focal tweeter. 


The overall scoop on the Flax line is that its completely replacing the Polyglass line. On that the price point of the Flax will be the same as the out going Polyglass. On the sound a little birdie told me that they're very close to the K2 line so yes even bigger bang for the buck. Lastly the line is in the states at some of the larger audio chains. I'm working on getting a set myself.


----------



## The Performer

Octave said:


> I really do get tired of hearing this. My experience is no one tunes them right. I'm very sensitive in the higher frequencies and this caused me to learn how to tune them. Now I have no issues with the Focal tweeter.


Yup seems everyone whines about focal being crazy with the tweeters. Whatev... 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## NoAudioFile

I have the PS165 and the high frequencies seem fine to me. Not out of the box of course, takes a little fiddling with.


----------



## Rs roms

NoAudioFile said:


> I have the PS165 and the high frequencies seem fine to me. Not out of the box of course, takes a little fiddling with.


Exactly. Utopia/ supremo will sound horrible if not done properly. I also had absolutely no issues with Tnp and tnk53

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## sirbOOm

I'd try them if I wasn't a tree hugger and didn't want to hurt the trees.

(Bwaaaahahahahahaha... global warming.)


----------



## Rs roms

sirbOOm said:


> I'd try them if I wasn't a tree hugger and didn't want to hurt the trees.
> 
> (Bwaaaahahahahahaha... global warming.)


Hahaha

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## MacLeod

Octave said:


> I really do get tired of hearing this. My experience is no one tunes them right. I'm very sensitive in the higher frequencies and this caused me to learn how to tune them. Now I have no issues with the Focal tweeter.
> 
> 
> The overall scoop on the Flax line is that its completely replacing the Polyglass line. On that the price point of the Flax will be the same as the out going Polyglass. On the sound a little birdie told me that they're very close to the K2 line so yes even bigger bang for the buck. Lastly the line is in the states at some of the larger audio chains. I'm working on getting a set myself.


Agreed. I've always like Focals and most of the cars I've heard with them have been very good. 

I think the problem with the tweeters seeming too harsh is that they're probably crossed over too low but mainly they're not attenuated enough in the passive. I remember my old set of Polk Audio MM6 components when ran straight out of the box, the tweeters would make your eyes water they were so loud. I bi-amped them, dropped the tweeter level and they became one of the best sounding sets of speakers I ever owned. My current Scan tweets are at -8 db right now. I don't think most passive attenuate the tweeters enough and so you get the complaints of bright and harsh sounding tweeters. 

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2.


----------



## sirbOOm

MacLeod said:


> My current Scan tweets are at -8 db right now.


I do the same-ish before tuning (not referencing Focal tweeters, though). Not that I can tune worth a damn but it keeps tweeters from being audible daggers to my ears.


----------



## MacLeod

sirbOOm said:


> I do the same-ish before tuning (not referencing Focal tweeters, though). Not that I can tune worth a damn but it keeps tweeters from being audible daggers to my ears.


Yeah you gotta tame them tweets more than you think. It's not so bad when they're 8 ohm and your mids are 4 but when both mids and tweets are the same load and getting the same amount of juice, those little suckers can be painful especially if you're trying to run them a little low like around 2.5K or 3.2K with a shallow'ish slope like 12 db which is what my Scans are at (3.2K @ 12 db). 

That's what I think the thing with Focal tweeters is. I think their tweeters are very good and when tuned properly can be very nice and detailed. I don't know for a fact but I bet the passive crossovers were designed indoors and not with the tweeters mounted on the A pillars.  

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2.


----------



## rton20s

Got to see (not hear) these in person at the SiS get together this weekend. They looked really nice. I'd definitely like to demo a set at some point. 

What caught my attention even more was the Focal FPD 900.6 that was on hand! That thing is beautiful, small and has plenty of power on tap. Check with your local Focal dealer, but it does appear Al and Eds has them available "in store". 

https://www.al-eds.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1&keep_https=yes


----------



## jriggs

Octave said:


> Lastly the line is in the states at some of the larger audio chains. I'm working on getting a set myself.


Yep, they are here. I saw a set on a sound board in early November at Sound Innovations in Union City, CA.


----------



## linkbeat

Has anyone had a chance to listen to these? I'm deciding between the PS 165, the PS 165 FX or the Hertz HSK165. I've listened to the Hertz and they sounded great but Focal's reputation has me interested. Curious how the flax series sounds compared to the normal PS 165.


----------



## New2SQ

I've had the Hertz Hsk and they weren't to bad also had the Focal V30 which the Flax are replacing. Focal sound better to me. The Ps165 are below those two imo. (Heard those on a soundboard)


----------



## linkbeat

New2SQ said:


> I've had the Hertz Hsk and they weren't to bad also had the Focal V30 which the Flax are replacing. Focal sound better to me. The Ps165 are below those two imo. (Heard those on a soundboard)


Mid bass is always nice but I've found that the sets with great mid range (vocals, tom toms, etc.) really make the sound stage. Based on another review the tweeters in the Hertz set seem to cover a broader frequency range than the V30's. I wonder if that would lead to a higher sound stage with the tweeters mounted in the pillars. 

Also curious how the tweeters in the flax set compare.


----------



## snapzoom

I just heard these at the Focal booth at CES. The PS 165 FX sound fantastic. Really impressive for the price. They had them side by side w/ the entry level Utopia's and the KRX2's all getting powered by their new line of class D full range amps. They can hold their own against the Utopias and in some cases I preferred them over the KRX2's. I would describe them as having a little more depth than the KRX2's but the KRX2's had a little better detail clarity. The Flax's definitely played a little deeper and u could really feel a strong vocal presence. The Krx2's I would describe as much smoother side by side. Overall I was really impressed. If these were out when I purchased my set of 165krx2's I probably would have gone w/ them instead.


----------



## linkbeat

snapzoom said:


> I just heard these at the Focal booth at CES. The PS 165 FX sound fantastic. Really impressive for the price. They had them side by side w/ the entry level Utopia's and the KRX2's all getting powered by their new line of class D full range amps. They can hold their own against the Utopias and in some cases I preferred them over the KRX2's. I would describe them as having a little more depth than the KRX2's but the KRX2's had a little better detail clarity. The Flax's definitely played a little deeper and u could really feel a strong vocal presence. The Krx2's I would describe as much smoother side by side. Overall I was really impressed. If these were out when I purchased my set of 165krx2's I probably would have gone w/ them instead.


I know what you mean. I just listened to the PS 165 FX , the V30's and the KRX2's this week. I went back a second time just to make sure I knew what I wanted. The FX sounded very smooth, almost like how I usually tune an EQ; U-shaped with strong lows and strong highs relative to the mids. They sounded much better than the v30's IMO. The KRX2's had a definite mid-bass/mid-range advantage though. Vocals just came alive with the KRX2's, in fact the whole frequency range just seemed more alive. The imaging was just superb. For the $$ the FX's were amazing, but it seems I've been bit by the bug again. Gotta go all the way.

I broke my budget and went with the KRX2's.


----------



## mikechec9

PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - Focal PS 165FX Component Speaker Review


----------



## pat8626

snapzoom said:


> I just heard these at the Focal booth at CES. The PS 165 FX sound fantastic. Really impressive for the price. They had them side by side w/ the entry level Utopia's and the KRX2's all getting powered by their new line of class D full range amps. They can hold their own against the Utopias and in some cases I preferred them over the KRX2's. I would describe them as having a little more depth than the KRX2's but the KRX2's had a little better detail clarity. The Flax's definitely played a little deeper and u could really feel a strong vocal presence. The Krx2's I would describe as much smoother side by side. Overall I was really impressed. If these were out when I purchased my set of 165krx2's I probably would have gone w/ them instead.


Hi, just wanna ask how's the midbass performance of the 165FX compared to the KRX2. I'm planning to install a component but not sure which to go. I usually listen to pop/R&B songs with fast and tight bass/midbass. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.


----------



## balane

I have the 165FX in my car, they're active and each driver is getting 75 watts. I have a handful of drivers to compare them to but not the KRX2. (Not in my car anyway.) I'm very happy with the midbass. I'm happy with everything on them in fact.

I've been waiting for the Flax subs to come out. I'm definitely interested in the 12" when it's available.


----------



## sirbOOm

mikechec9 said:


> PASMAG | PERFORMANCE AUTO AND SOUND - Focal PS 165FX Component Speaker Review


Everything reviewed by this mag sounds spectacular and surprising and wonderful and amazing and different in a good way and yada yada yada...

Oh, and he always seems to just lose track of time listening... rough life.


----------



## Hoptologist

Haha, yeah PASMAG is very easy to please  

balane, I'm interested as well... too bad there aren't any details announced yet though.


----------



## rton20s

Hoptologist said:


> Haha, yeah PASMAG is very easy to please
> 
> balane, I'm interested as well... too bad there aren't any details announced yet though.


They've probably been waiting on this year's flax harvest.


----------



## Hoptologist

rton20s said:


> They've probably been waiting on this year's flax harvest.


Lol. Hopefully their flax fields aren't experiencing a drought like us. :worried:


----------



## 14642

My grandfather used to eat a bowl of Uncle Sam cereal every morning. It has flax seed. 

I'm always amazed by the focus that's placed on supposedly exotic cone materials without any proof that those materials contribute any significant improvement over other similar materials. I'm also always amazed that the cone material is placed so high on the list of what contributes to great sound. 

The design of really great speakers has far more to do with the motor than the cone material. The stiffer the material, the higher in frequency the aberrations in frequency response occur and the higher the Q. That's it. Woven materials like kevlar and fiberglass tend to flex along the weaves. In most cases, the profile of the cone has far more bearing on the response than small differences in material. 

Ive always liked the sound of the up-scale Focal speakers and the Flax series are no different.


----------



## sirbOOm

I would like to have speakers made of recycled love.


----------



## Rs roms

Which is the stiffest material ever used in cone manufacturing. Just curious

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## balane

Just a guess but I imagine that would be aluminum. I'm likely not aware of some of the exotic materials used in limited production drivers however. 

I could really care less about driver recipes. I can't even see my midbass drivers. I needed a two-way set and kept hearing positive things about the Flax series. I also had some old Polyglass mids I enjoyed in the past. To be perfectly honest, I'm not exactly crazy over the look of Flax drivers. But I could care less if they were made from kitten fur clippings, they do sound very nice.


----------



## groberts

I have a set of Focal K2P KR's (6.5" comp set). Just removed them from a car I traded. While researching and planning a new installation in my new car (2015 Subaru Outback) I was told by the top installer at my local high-end shop the Flax speakers are extremely good and possibly even more natural than my K2P KR's.

I have not had a chance to hear them or compare. My only issue with the K2P KR's is that the highs can border on the 'brighter side' of the spectrum.

The stock tweeter locations in the new Outback fire up from the dash into the windshield. Which would be better? 

Keep my K2P KR's, or consider a trade toward a set of 165 Flax comps? 

I will be using a JL Audio XD 700/5 and Audison Bit-One Processor interfaced to the factory Starlink headunit. 

Thanks!


----------



## groberts

Any new Focal 165 FX users care to comment on how they perform? Interested to know if they would be an upgrade to my current K2 Power 165 KR's? (Doors will be sound deadened) powered active with JL audio 700/5, 75W to each driver and tuned with an Audison Bit One DSP.


----------



## groberts

I had a chance to hear a set of Flax 165F3 (3-way) set in vehicle recently. VERY smooth, musical, well balanced. I was impressed. They didn't call attention to anything wrong to speak of. Just superb in all ways. Excellent speakers!


----------



## Rs roms

I would suggest to let go of Kr set. TNk is the only tweeter in focal line up which has a very odd highs to me atleast.
On the other hand Flax is very different in terms of sonic signatures. It is more laid back and mellow. Great set it is.
Also the Krx are fantastic as well if you tune them right.


----------



## rxonmymind

sirbOOm said:


> I'd try them if I wasn't a tree hugger and didn't want to hurt the trees.
> 
> (Bwaaaahahahahahaha... global warming.)


Now only if they came out with a HEMP line of speakers. Then if you really blow them and catch them on fire.....Lol.
"Officer HONEST I SWEAR those are my speakers!"


----------

