# Radar Detectors



## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

Do you guys use radar detectors?

What sort of price range are acceptable?

What are the legal requirements of using a Radar detector?

(I'm starting to sell these & I'm not really familiar with the law)


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## kkreit01 (Aug 27, 2009)

Yes

Price is anything from $50 - $1000+. The Passports\Escorts go for MSRP. I think the higher end Bels do as well. 

Can't sell or use in VA, DC, most of Canada, or 18-wheelers.


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

WOW these are expensive units...

But they do save you money; last time I got a ticket was $350 plus all the extras it was a mess...

I carry Escort line and Beltronics and authorized to sell online, and they're very strict about their MAP pricing.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Best radar detector out there.


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

I agree completely with Jim on this one...

Of course its not "breaking" unless caught 
(I shouldn't be saying these - I'm a vendor)

PEOPLE - DO WHAT JIM SAYS ON THE ABOVE VIDEO !!!!

Disclaimer: In Car Audio Video do not endorse speeding!!!


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Around here they're useless. Areas where the cops have big budgets radar detectors become essentially useless. Our guys here have instant on radar guns that hit you multiple times within a second. IMO, the only useful things are radar and laser jammers. But radar jammers are epic felony level stuff, and laser jammers only work on lasers. And of course, none of it helps when they're just cruising up and down the highway with their planes and helicopters.


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

Then it's time to start selling those radar absorbent paint like the ones used on the B2 bombers 

In CA there's this loophole regarding coppers on choppers i.e. in order for you to get issued with a valid ticket he/she has to be wearing full uniform, which most of them don't when flying a chopper. So you go to court with the ticket and request proof that the officer was wearing their full uniform, if evidence is unable to be presented then the judge usually dismiss the case 

But I'm surprised that Police would go as far as instant-on radar guns to avoid radar detectors.

Well the very least these detectors will tell you where stationary radars are located. And that's another thing that the Governator approved recently: stationary speed radars to (not discourage speeding) increase state revenue income :mean: He actually said on TV interview exactly that.


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## celine (May 6, 2011)

I think you should comfirm your main market,and then see other competitor's price,find a reasonable price,nor too high or too low.


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

there's MAP policy in place so I can only advertise them to a set standard. So its marketing game of who could capture the most customer while advertising the same price.

ID Online 
www.incaraudiovideo.com


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## viviorunitia88 (Dec 28, 2010)

radar jammers dont work the detectors the better high end escort and beltronics who are the same company are some good choices


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

did u know there's also laser jammers, and apparently they're legal.

it plug straight into the beltronics radar detector.

and the other fact that impressed me was that police apparently have "radar detector" detector, and beltronics therefore released the "anti radar-detector detector" radar detector. 

go figures...

ID Online 
www.incaraudiovideo.com


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## svideo (Apr 11, 2011)

InCarAudioVideo said:


> police apparently have "radar detector" detector, and beltronics therefore released the "anti radar-detector detector" radar detector.


I can't help but think of this.

I recently installed an Escort QI45 with shifters and it works as expected. Haven't had a chance to "test" the shifters but I'm hoping for the best.

Radar detectors aren't a perfect solution, and the best option is still to simply not be a dumbass, but they can be a helpful tool in your belt when on the highway.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

Im kinda suprised with this post from a vendor... When i had my shop, we carried K40, Escort, and Bell... All 3 provided extensive training.. Usually through the locap REP trainging course.. They would cover all facts of their particular product, as well as cover alot of the laws pertaining to the use... Also if you carry anything with a TICKET GUARANTEE, be sure you UNDERSTAND what the guarantee is... Most people DONT, sure to advertise it, will get you plenty of customers, only to PISS them off later.. I dont care who the manufacturer is, or there Ticket guarantee, they ALL come down to one thing.. IF you get a TICKET, you have to send them PROOF you PAID that ticket, then they will REIMBURSE you for the ticket.. Well hell, everyone takes defferred so that it doesnt go on your record, and they wont pay deffered.. Its their way around paying the ticket..

I still run the Escort with Shifters, damn awsome radar/laser/detector/jammer...

BUT, still doesnt help on highway doing 100


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

I just started carrying their lines, and haven't been to training yet. I thought might as well ask you guys about it.

now, there's never a no ticket guarantee, may be I'm new to this, but I don't know if there was a no ticket guarantee campaign. even so I don't think it would be effective, considering that paying your ticket in court = guilty plea, ie: goes on record & u'r insurance increase.

I don't think any method is ever successful to avoid getting caught when breaking the law. but it doesn't hurt to have backup 

ID Online 
www.incaraudiovideo.com


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

yes some of the manufacturers offer a no ticket guarantee... but as i stated before, its a selling point, but a clear sham... because they know people wont just pay the ticket, and get reimbursed, thats just stupid, LOL...

As you probably have figured out, there is no money to be made in radar detector sales! Way too many on the net to be had cheaply....

A brick and morter store is better off selling Installed detectors, ones that have several pieces to be custom installed into the vehicle.. We used to do quite WELL with both K40 and Escort installed detectors.


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## ikari2_2000 (Dec 30, 2010)

If you had a jammer, wouldn't it at least buy to time to slow down and shut the jammer off if you do get pulled over?


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## Capt G (May 23, 2011)

Best detector on the market is the Valentine One made by Mike Valentine, one of the original owners and founders of Cincinnati Microwave, makers of the Escort. They run about $400 and the unit is actually a radar locator; it tells you if it's coming from the front, rear, or off to the side....and it keeps track of the number of signals being tracked. When you pass the grocery store with the automatic doors that always set your bird dog off, you'll notice one more signal on the counter showing you that Smoky is sitting in the parking lot taking your picture as well. My second choice would be the Escort.

I've never read a credible test review that show radar or laser jammers work to any effect. Save your money.

Radar detector detectors work off the fact that all modern radar detectors use superheterodyne technology within them. Simply put, the detector creates a frequency that it beats against the incoming radar signal to convert it to a signal that can be amplified and processed more accurately. Almost exactly like a "beat frequency oscillator" seen on older radios. That small signal, in a poorly shielded detector, can be detected by John Law if he has the right equipment to do so. If you are running a detector now you probably know how this works....and who is running a piece of crap detector...because their unit sets yours off until you get one half to a mile away from them. Spend the money on a "quiet" unit like an Escort or a Valentine, and just unplug the unit, to be safe, when first crossing into Canada at the border...where most of the detector- detectors are!

"Instant-on" is rarely the threat perceived by many, unless you're relying solely on a detector to save you. The only place to truly fear it is when you're the only car on the road, and you're not sure who's approaching you, or hiding in the weeds. Most of the time you'll get a good warning of instant-on when he's shooting the guy way ahead of you. If you're bopping along at a perfectly respectable 90 mph north-bound and didn't notice Smoky rolling south-bound, you've got no excuse for him noticing you first and irradiating your face. Most tickets get written for drivers not paying attention. A cranked stereo and high speed driving don't go well together; you'll lose critical seconds in clamping on the binders.

Speaking of paying attention.....many people get rolling along comfortably confident in the prowess of their bird dog and ignore the car behind them that they either merged in front of a night or didn't notice creeping up on them. The first clue is when the detector gets smoked off the windshield. The first principle of radar detectors is that they don't work if the cop doesn't have his radar on. The microwave outburst that woke you up was just the cop doing a speed verification to his speedo before he lights you up. It's really kind of embarrassing. Don't ask me how I know that.

Laser is strictly line-of-sight and won't reach over the hill the way radar will, and the cop has to be stationary to run it. Even the best detectors merely tell you to get your checkbook out for a legit laser tag. The best hope is that laser is mostly run in urban areas, often by cops out of the car on foot, and that you have a decent chance of picking up the signal of the guy in front of you getting tagged. If it's a dedicated shot at you and you only, you're toast.

A lot of areas are not running as much radar as they used to but, many are doing it increasingly at very low power. Especially the state troopers/patrols. That's not good because you get a weak signal and treat it casually, as if you've time for evaluation. The bad news is that, that is all the stronger it is going to get and he's close, very close...in fact, in the time it took to read this, you may be toast. My rule is to treat all signals as a full out assault on my wallet and act accordingly. I immediately slow down until I've identified the threat. (This is where the cheapies like the old "Long Range Super Snooper" will drive you nuts.....they'll set your bird dog off sporadically for miles and you'll think it's a low-powered bogey instead.) Just remember that the cop doesn't have to run his gun at full power to get you. If you go rolling by a darkened parking lot at three in the morning, on deserted streets, that little chirp is enough to get you, because he's only sitting a hundred yards away from you. Speed only on limited access highways and your life will be simpler and your driving record shorter.

I'm hesitant to mention it but, you can beat radar. You'll probably still get pulled over, but maybe only for a lecture. You have to have excellent reactions, a well-equipped car, and the willingness (and an appropriate situation) to pin the brakes to the floor. Don't do that, if you've just passed someone and pulled in in front of them; your trunk-mounted amp will end up in the backseat...along with their bumper. It helps if you're driving a light weight sports car with excellent brakes but it can be done even in a sedan with superior brakes....like most of the Nazi products have. The reason you can do so is that radar for speed measurement works on the Doppler principle. What is actually measured is the change in frequency of the returned radar signal. The best example of this, in the audio range, is the train whistle going by. The frequency, or the pitch of the sound to your ears, changes as the train approaches and then passes. We know it's one frequency or pitch so what changes? The sound waves are compressed as the train approaches your location, at normal frequency while alongside, and then expanded as the train passes going away. A Doppler shift is the measurement of that change in frequency, in this case, caused by the front of your moving car.

The reason you can beat the radar gun is that, if you decelerate fast enough, the radar gun will not lock in and give a speed reading. To get a speed reading it has to compare multiple Doppler shifts received and it compares them, very quickly, against each other and then averages them out for your speed resolution. If its first iteration shows a speed of advance of 90 mph and its next shows 80 mph, and so on down, it won't lock until the rate of decel decreases...hopefully, right around the speed limit. If you brake normally, it will have enough time to track your speed as it decreases. Needless to say, this is pinned against the seat belt deceleration sufficient to dislodge that Three Dog Night cassette from under the seat where it has been since 1978, or throw that cup of coffee your co-pilot just poured onto the windshield and back into her lap, about three times, and so it's a maneuver that you've considered, or rejected, long before you made the decision to speed. The cop is still going to pull you over because the radar unit has an audio output upon which he can listen to the Doppler shifts, and what he's hearing is going to sound like the Union Pacific Super Chief trying to avoid a train wreck.

I had a PA trooper nail me in my old RX-7 doing about 93 mph. He was quite gracious about it and informed me he was giving me a break and writing me for 63 in a 55....because if he wrote me for the 73 I was doing, it'd cost me $150. I neglected to inform him that I'd have like to have scrubbed more than the twenty I did off my speed before he got locked in and was quite happy with the "little" ticket. I had a county mounty shoot me from 500 yards away doing 60 in a 45 and he never did get lock. I got pulled over and complimented on my reaction time...but, "we both know what you were doing". In all honestly, it was in an area where I was anticipating a signal and had I been doing so much as touching the turn signal stalk, I'd have never beaten it.

If you're a casual observer of other laws than the speed limit, and you travel long distances on roads such as the Ohio Turnpike, there are some nice radio scanners that may happen to inadvertently pick up the police bend frequencies. Most states frown on having these devices in one's car which means you'll need to make room in the glove box to mount it....and shut it off if you get pulled over. You don't need the cop listening to his dispatcher in stereo. In Ohio, the troopers report location by mile marker and east or west-bound. A pocket notebook, attentive ears, and you can plot every speed Nazi across all of I-80. CB radios used to be good, and still may be in some parts of the country where the chatter isn't all BS, especially if you can find an old Bosch tri-band power antenna. You sacrifice a little performance, across the FM and CB bands particularly, but you only need one antenna.

The best advise I can give anyone using a radar detector is to drive the way you did before getting one; paranoid. And remember two things. It doesn't do any good if he's not shooting radar. And the cop will be where he's always at every morning, when you're driving your wife's car without the detector.


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## chris6878 (May 21, 2011)

FAUEE said:


> Around here they're useless. Areas where the cops have big budgets radar detectors become essentially useless. Our guys here have instant on radar guns that hit you multiple times within a second. IMO, the only useful things are radar and laser jammers. But radar jammers are epic felony level stuff, and laser jammers only work on lasers. And of course, none of it helps when they're just cruising up and down the highway with their planes and helicopters.


I dont agree. I live in sfl and My escort 9500 has save me many times over. Have avoided atleast 50 cops since i bought it last year. It is also updateable via the internet. They have an update each week which includes updates for the redlight and speed cams and also any known speed traps. IMO you cant live without one in sfl with all the damn cameras popping up.


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## jbreddawg (Dec 28, 2009)

chris6878 said:


> I dont agree. I live in sfl and My escort 9500 has save me many times over. Have avoided atleast 50 cops since i bought it last year. It is also updateable via the internet. They have an update each week which includes updates for the redlight and speed cams and also any known speed traps. IMO you cant live without one in sfl with all the damn cameras popping up.


I second this statement. I also have the 9500 upgraded from the 995 upgraded from the 955 and I will continue to upgrade as better technology becomes available. 
I believe you cant live without one but thats just my opinion.


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## Capt G (May 23, 2011)

jbreddawg said:


> I second this statement. I also have the 9500 upgraded from the 995 upgraded from the 955 and I will continue to upgrade as better technology becomes available.
> I believe you cant live without one but thats just my opinion.


Don't leave the driveway without it!


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## mrzapco (May 27, 2011)

i was thinking of picking up a Passport 8500 x50 off Ebay.

around $160-$200


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

that's very cheap, brand new?


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## mrzapco (May 27, 2011)

> that's very cheap, brand new?


no, slightly used, but they are still great.


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

sounds good, ask the seller if they've registered the unit with escort online. just make sure you can still get updates.


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## mrzapco (May 27, 2011)

> sounds good, ask the seller if they've registered the unit with escort online. just make sure you can still get updates


hmm, never knew you can get updates on those.


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

go to the escort website, they have info there.


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## wannabesq (Apr 13, 2011)

I hate the cat and mouse game. Pretty soon there will be radar detector detector detector detector detectors. Rather than trying to speed without the cops watching, why don't we lobby to have speed limits adjusted to compensate for modern, safer vehicles? It's a known fact that many cops will do speed traps on streets that have speed limits that are lower than what could be safely driven.


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## jbreddawg (Dec 28, 2009)

I was just out driving around today and my detector goes off , mine shows your speed as soon as it goes off and I was doing 42 . I dropped down to 30 really quickly and low and behold theres two motorcycle cops sitting behind a bridge overpass pillar. 
Thank you once again !!! I dont normally drive too fast but sometimes your just not really paying attention. This was a 4 lane road that should have easily been 45 but it was posted at 30.


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

Wow that's quite a save!

just proof that its worth the investment 

which brand & model was that?


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## Capt G (May 23, 2011)

mrzapco said:


> hmm, never knew you can get updates on those.


Back when Cincinnati Microwave was producing Escort, and later the Passport, they instituted a fantastic upgrade program. The only caveat was that you had to prove valid ownership, which was usually easy as they only sold (then) by direct mail. The policy was to combat the tremendous number of stolen detectors.

If you had a problem with your unit, they'd repair it, often at no charge other than shipping, and they'd automatically upgrade it with their latest technology.

Escort, which is the company that bought the detector division of Cinci Microwave, when that company went under, has continued the same policy...probably because a lot of the guys at Escort came from CM originally. Mike Valentine, the original founder of CM (who got bought out when the company went public...and the market/company went downhill) does the same thing at Valentine Research.

I've never heard of anyone having an experience with any of the people coming out of the old Cincinnati Microwave having that experience be a bad one. They got customer relations down "right" from the beginning, and they passed the tradition on to everyone that came through the door.

I once stopped at their facility (since demolished) at 1 Microwave Circle, IIRC, in Cinci, with an ailing Escort. Gal told me she couldn't promise anything but, go grab some lunch and give her a call afterwards. Less than an hour later, I was on the road with a repaired and upgraded Escort. Total cost; zero.


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## nfrazier (Apr 14, 2011)

The only states where they are completely illegal is DC and Virginia. Don't sell Cobra's. Sell Escorts (and Belltronics - the cheaper version of Escort) and Valentine 1's if you can. The range of these units are great.

Obviously you have to make sure your customer knows its a RADAR detector NOT a cop car detector.


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

I have Escort and Beltronics products, but I see that the main concern people would have would be:

1. they're not cheap - $500 can go a long way for a new car audio system
2. as you said - they're NOT a cop car detector 

Its great to hear first hand customer experiences with the radar detectors.


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## nfrazier (Apr 14, 2011)

Yea, they arn't cheap. But usually I break it down for a customer. How much is a basic speeding ticket? $3-$400 at least. Not to mention fees if you fight it, a jack in insurance.

From personal experience I can tell you the Passport (I have an 8500) saved my but a few times. The range is great, its telling me I'm coming up on, or am close to a radar signal way before I'm actually close to it. One of the better investments I've made.


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## Capt G (May 23, 2011)

nfrazier said:


> The only states where they are completely illegal is DC and Virginia. Don't sell Cobra's. Sell Escorts (and Belltronics - the cheaper version of Escort) and Valentine 1's if you can. The range of these units are great.
> 
> Obviously you have to make sure your customer knows its a RADAR detector NOT a cop car detector.



Good advise.

If you're going to sell detectors, something your customer can buy on-line easily, you'll want to be selling more than just a "bird dog". You'll need to sell professional advise....which is why you're dealing with a customer in the first place. If they knew what you know, they wouldn't be talking with you. If your customer is an average driver, just looking for a little insurance against a ticket should they inadvertently exceed the speed limit, you won't have to explain over much. On the other hand, if your customer is a dedicated violator of posted interstate speed limits, you'll make a sale on your knowledge and ability to convey all of the speed threats out there.

Regarding detectors specifically, particularly with younger drivers, the radar detector vs cop car detector is the logical and excellent starting point. They've heard how much a ticket can run but I'd emphasize that tickets are relatively cheap compared to what the insurance companies will do to you. Some states have even started graduated assessments for license renewal based upon your number of points. (It's just a grab for more money, but it's real money.) Gone are the days when you just had to stay below twelve points to keep your license. Break above six points in Michigan and they bang you for an extra hundred bucks (or so) a year just to keep your license valid! Even judges have said the practice is a crock...it's two bites of the same apple since you've already paid the ticket! But it's a reality in many states. The question is, if you often speed, can you afford not to have a detector?

Once they realize that their new detector will not protect them against a cop not using his radar, and the need to watch the rear view mirror for one sneaking up, you can discuss the finer points of how "the enemy" nails us without using radar. A red Camaro coming up behind you is little cause for concern unless you know that the Wisconsin State Police have a few of them in their stable. Indiana runs a couple of blue or gray Dodge Chargers on I-94 and I-80. Both states saved some money by not placing light bars or those expensive reflective door decals on those cars. The easiest way to avoid getting pulled over by an unmarked car is to be speeding at least ten miles an hour over the limit. Danny Driver usually does 6 mph over, relying on a certain amount of latitude from the cop. He gets nailed at the end of the month when the cop needs some tickets and has used up all his latitude. At six mph over you'll have cars coming up behind you that you won't at ten mph over. (Bear in mind that, in most states, you hit the jackpot at fifteen mph over....that's where the money gets large. If you're going to do fifteen over, from a cost standpoint, you might as well do twenty or whatever you want, because the cost won't be that much more...if you don't go to jail, in some states.) Doing your ten over, you can then assume anyone coming up behind you is a threat...and just let off the gas until they pass you by. And the last thing a cop is going to do, if he's creeping up on you, is light off his radar gun....that is until he's pacing you and wants to confirm his speed reading, at which point the detector will get smoked off the dash! Cops love nailing drivers with bird dogs who are also casual about watching their rear view mirror and they don't cut them a lot of slack.

Explain that laser only works from a stationary cop car, is extremely accurate, and very short range. Hopefully he's aimed at the guy in front of you when the laser alert goes off. Some Hwy Patrols use it to good effect...especially if you're the only car on the road...but that's why a good salesman will explain that every signal is a threat until you know where it's coming from. (Those damn proximity alarms on GM SUV's will drive you nuts with laser alerts.) Laser is most often used around town and it's a good idea to advise customers not to speed around town under any circumstances; it's too easy to get nailed by "instant-on" or laser, it's too easy to get a "15 over", and you're not saving any time by speeding in town any way. I think it's good advise to tell a customer that, and to rely on their new detector on the interstates only.

If you're running a Valentine One (radar locator) and you get "shot in the back" by a cop sitting up on the on-ramp it's not a good idea to hit the brakes, though it is reflexive. If there are other cars around you, you just confirmed to the cop which one was speeding....and using a bird dog....maybe in a state where they're illegal...by virtue of the fact that your brake lights just lit up, for no apparent reason...other than being synonymous with his lighting off the radar gun. Ease off the speed; he's either got you dead to rights or he nailed the other guy.....either way, slamming on the brakes does you no good in that instance.

The last "non-radar" threat I'd mentioned is an old one. It dates back to the sixties and it's still out there and is the most deadly and accurate method of speed enforcement. It used to be run out of planes and helicopters but gas prices for av-gas have limited their use for speed enforcement to holiday weekends, if that. It's VASCAR and most state patrols still have it and use it. It's really nothing more than a glorified stop watch. Those white hash marks on the side of the road are a known distance apart and the cop sitting on the ramp, not shooting radar, may well be timing your crossing those marks. It's scary accurate and you may well proceed along your way not knowing that you've been timed at all. My "best" VASCAR story involved a cop, it turned out a cop notably lacking a sense of humor, sitting on an on-ramp completely on the other side of a divided interstate. I slowed down a bit...not nearly enough...when I saw him and, unbeknownst to me, he timed me. He didn't move and I quickly returned to speed. What is more accurate than a VASCAR measurement over 1/10th of a mile? How about a VASCAR measurement over 38 miles? I returned to my 85-90 mph (in a 55 mph zone...it was back in the day of the "double nickel") and was five miles from the state border line when he pulled me over. He appeared like a lightning bolt in my rear view mirror, which makes sense because he had to do 100 mph just to catch up to me...perhaps explaining the lack of conviviality when he pulled me over....and he presented me with the most accurate ticket I've ever received; 86.8 mph average speed over 38 miles. Yes, he included the decimal point on the citation. I'd like to think he framed his copy of the ticket. If I'd been doing 87.9 I'd have probably made the border! It was a simple matter for him to lock in his mile marker time tick back where I saw him first and let the "computer" (there weren't any back then...at least not in cars) do the rest.

My I do ramble on....back to sales ideas.

Your stereo customer presents a radar detector challenge because you're going to have to tell him that he's never going to hear the detector go off, and may not see the lights on it in the daytime, while he's listening to Metallica at 102 db's. There are a couple of solutions to that, ones that you are uniquely qualified to provide. And they're something he cannot get from the internet. Lets say he's bought a Valentine One, which is only sold direct from the manufacturer, and he's done so on your advise that it's the best out there. He's also bought, on your advise, the concealed display module. That unit allows the head unit, on the windshield/dash, etc..., to run dark. It reduces the chance for theft by outside observers and reduces the number of people riding your six because you've got a bird dog and they're just happy to tailgate someone who has "they're front door". And, you can locate it where a driver listening to loud music will be more likely to see the lights, even in daytime. And, I'm gonna take a flyer here, but I'd also guess that you could hook the remote concealed display to an additional big red light or such on the cluster to further enhance their awareness of an alarm. The flyer part is that, rather than hacking open the Valentine concealed display unit, which only cost $39, I'd bet you could call up Mike Valentine and he'd do it for you. Just ask him for a patch cord spliced in that light up your light for all alerts....I bet he'd be willing to do it for you, a reputable shop owner, serving your mutual customer needs.

Of course, you're going to want to hard wire each customer's detector, in their multiple vehicles, so that they can just plug it in to a power plug emanating from the headliner or under the sun visor, so they don't have to use the cigarette lighter plug in, with the power cord hanging down from above, and can still take their bird dog from car to car easily.

Another history lesson, and path to profits, comes from back in the day when detectors were illegal in many, if not most states, and the preferred set-up for stealth operation with maximum effectiveness was to run two of the old original Escort's (the best for years) front and rear. One is located aft molded into the rear deck while the other was commonly located under the passenger sun visor. Yes, some dedicated souls mounted them in the grille and within the rear tail lights but weather issues, especially up front, caused a shortened life span. In any event, each detector then fed a remote display under dash or in dash. A really trick set up, albeit at the cost of two detectors, and very effective. If a cop pulls you over, you just shut both of them off and he's going to have a heck of a time finding them. Note though, you must use tow top quality detectors such as Escort or Valentine, with adequate case insulation, because all modern detectors are super heterodyne receivers which means that their amplifier emits a signal in the radar range. In essence, they have a beat frequency oscillator so the amplifier can work in it's most effective signal range. Cheap detectors will just set each other off, which you know from driving by anyone using the old Super Snooper bird dog. It's the presence of the oscillator that allows "detector-detectors" such as used in Canada to alert the authorities that you're operating a bird dog. Get a good one and you won't have any problems.

The Valentine site makes for interesting reading...you can tell that Mike is "into" his product and not just resting on past laurels. Valentine One radar and laser detectors

If you want to get crazy into the esoterica, not a bad idea if you're going to sell them, the Escort Forum is crazy fun. Escort Radar Forum - Powered by vBulletin


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## gmctrucks (Aug 27, 2011)

mrzapco said:


> i was thinking of picking up a Passport 8500 x50 off Ebay.
> 
> around $160-$200


 There is some seller on ebay that sells Escorts that are rebuilt with warranty I have a 8500 X50 and I wouldn't leave home without it but to me the V1 is the best the bottom line is you get what you pay for. Now to the person that started this thread I wish you luck.


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## nfrazier (Apr 14, 2011)

gmctrucks said:


> There is some seller on ebay that sells Escorts that are rebuilt with warranty I have a 8500 X50 and I wouldn't leave home without it but to me the V1 is the best the bottom line is you get what you pay for. Now to the person that started this thread I wish you luck.


I'm selling mine to get the blue one in black. Looking for $160 plus shipping and I'll include the case manuals smartcord and directwire for it. It's blue.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I have used radar detectors for years. as mentioned, they are radar detectors, not cop car detectors. if they are behind yo, not using radar, you will still be pulled over, lol. so it is a not right to drive like an idiot.

one thing I will say when buying and using one. if you are on the freeway with other cars and you are going 20 MPH faster than everyone else, you will be pulled over. so dont drive stupid. also, if you are the ONLY one on the road, dont drive 20-30MPH over. the instant on and lidar will still get you and since no one is in front of you to detect it when they are shot at, you will be caught.

they have thier place and they do work, within reason, lol.


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## dman (Dec 21, 2008)

Look into the K40... We just had a meeting with them at knowledgefest yesterday... They have made quite a few new improvements and worth looking at again..


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

minbari said:


> I have used radar detectors for years. as mentioned, they are radar detectors, not cop car detectors. if they are behind yo, not using radar, you will still be pulled over, lol. so it is a not right to drive like an idiot.
> 
> one thing I will say when buying and using one. if you are on the freeway with other cars and you are going 20 MPH faster than everyone else, you will be pulled over. so dont drive stupid. also, if you are the ONLY one on the road, dont drive 20-30MPH over. the instant on and lidar will still get you and since no one is in front of you to detect it when they are shot at, you will be caught.
> 
> they have thier place and they do work, within reason, lol.


Seems to be a lot of lidar usage up here in NorCal.
I drive around 50k miles per year and have wanted to buy the latest and greatest but didn't think they worked well enough for lidar?

Minbari, you opinion please regarding lidar from a personal experience.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

I've owned just about all of them, and the installed one's work best. Valentine was decent but range wasn't there. The passport 8500i was just pure junk (i think i had a bad unit) and now i use a beltronics v955 and its the best i've ever owned. has great distance, few false alerts. one thing i have noticed is that it picks up laser from airport towers. kinda annoying.

oh and just fyi on the valentine, its a dual front single rear radar receiver style unit. So yes, it can "triangulate" where its coming from, but honestly if it goes off and you're speeding hit the brake. trying to figure out the location of the radar and your speed to the wind velocity and the angle of the dangle... pointless... have brakes, will use.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Seems to be a lot of lidar usage up here in NorCal.
> I drive around 50k miles per year and have wanted to buy the latest and greatest but didn't think they worked well enough for lidar?
> 
> Minbari, you opinion please regarding lidar from a personal experience.
> ...


my personal experience. if they target you and pull the trigger. you cant hit the brake fast enough, lol. takes only .1mS to get your speed and they can pick your car out. but, if the car 2000ft ahead gets shot at, your detector will go off. hit the brakes before they aim at you! lol.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

spl152db said:


> I've owned just about all of them, and the installed one's work best. Valentine was decent but range wasn't there. The passport 8500i was just pure junk (i think i had a bad unit) and now i use a beltronics v955 and its the best i've ever owned. has great distance, few false alerts. one thing i have noticed is that it picks up laser from airport towers. kinda annoying.
> 
> oh and just fyi on the valentine, its a dual front single rear radar receiver style unit. So yes, it can "triangulate" where its coming from, but honestly if it goes off and you're speeding hit the brake. trying to figure out the location of the radar and your speed to the wind velocity and the angle of the dangle... pointless... have brakes, will use.


heard the escort "redline" is very good too. every review I have seen on it gets raves.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

minbari said:


> my personal experience. if they target you and pull the trigger. you cant hit the brake fast enough, lol. takes only .1mS to get your speed and they can pick your car out. but, if the car 2000ft ahead gets shot at, your detector will go off. hit the brakes before they aim at you! lol.


That's good news.
I was under the impression that lidar is line of sight and only detectable by the vehicle it is aimed at through the built in scope.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

no, there is enough background for the detector to pickup. the lidar "beam" is still like 3 ft across at 1000ft


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

minbari said:


> no, there is enough background for the detector to pickup. the lidar "beam" is still like 3 ft across at 1000ft


Now that's useful!
So knowing that almost all my encounters are with lidar, which unit comes to the top of the list for me? :helmet:
Thanks in advance! 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

if I could buy any radar detector right now, escort redline.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

minbari said:


> if I could buy any radar detector right now, escort redline.


Got it.
I will look into one.
Thank you!

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## jbreddawg (Dec 28, 2009)

I have been through plenty of cheaper ones years ago before finding escort/passport . Since then I have upgraded from the Vector 955 to the 995 to the 8500 and now the 9500ix . They all work really good and you wont go wrong with any of them but the more you spend the more options your going to get. 

I'm in love with the 9500 and cant see changing it for anything new anytime soon .
Saved my ass big time just last week . Heading home from Disney around 11:00 at night down state road 520 . Speed limit was 55 ,it's late theres no lights so it's dark as can be and I'm puttin along at 72 . Thing goes off like fireworks and I slow down quickly. About a mile down the road is a nice state trooper sitting all blacked out in the median . You couldnt even see him till you were right on top of him. 

Once again ,thank you Escort ! I wont leave home without it.
Once you get saved once,you become a believer .


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## jonatbaylor (Aug 20, 2009)

InCarAudioVideo said:


> did u know there's also laser jammers, and apparently they're legal.
> 
> it plug straight into the beltronics radar detector.
> 
> ...


Its the same 2-3 companies selling each "team" the newest equipment. The cops are team "a" and the perps are team "b"..and its complete and utterly hilarious that they are playing both sides against each other...


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

InCarAudioVideo said:


> I just started carrying their lines, and haven't been to training yet. I thought might as well ask you guys about it.
> 
> now, there's never a no ticket guarantee, may be I'm new to this, but I don't know if there was a no ticket guarantee campaign. even so I don't think it would be effective, considering that paying your ticket in court = guilty plea, ie: goes on record & u'r insurance increase.
> 
> ...



I have Escort 8500, I love my radar its the one with blue leds. It saved my ass so many times, If i drive my wife car, i just simply feel naked because i have to drive very slow... which is good in a way. When i drive her car, I'm usually with the family and my Baby Girl, I don't want anything to happen to her so i drive safe. Now in my car lol that's a different story. Escort saved me so many times.. Great unit,, I turned of the X band on it, you just got to have it!


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## toomtoomvroom (May 18, 2009)

I've got a Escort X50 and it's saved me more than once. It's practically paid itself many times. I would recommend it. But it really depends on what type of driving you do. Long freeways? Short inroad routes?


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## jonatbaylor (Aug 20, 2009)

There are more combative methods now creeping up to watch out for the coppers.

Things like android applications that show some favorite 'trap' areas and what not.

I'm loving inventions like these...


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

I have an Escort Passport 8500 X50 (not using it) and Valentine One. I will never buy an Escort RD ever again. I've sent it in for repair twice for just sucking in general. They've replaced the antenna assembly and claim it's up to spec. But it's nowhere NEAR as good as my V1. The Escort has NO off-axis detection. At ALL. I regret buying it to the max.

I also have Laser Interceptor, and I have no idea why someone claimed that LJs don't work. They work very, very, VERY well... for laser. Radar jammers do work, but they are indeed very illegal, so I don't have or use one. But don't get Rocky Mountain Radar confused with a real jammer. RMR is a scam - literally. Their products do absolutely nothing.


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## InCarAudioVideo (Dec 4, 2010)

Very interesting take on the different types of radar/ laser detectors.

FYI, we are now an Amazon affiliate, so our website will now offer all types of radar detectors from Amazon.

We have to change to Amazon because we're now in Australia and will try to work with the Australian market. 

But all Radar detectors are ILLEGAL here in Australia, and I just found out of a new "*safety camera*" that's in place in some key intersections, how it works is like this: if you speed on a yellow light beyond the speed limit, then you will get booked for speeding, if you missed the yellow and the light turned to red, you will get booked for ignoring a red light, if you are smart enough to do both you get both tickets and points off your license for both offenses!

Luckily in the US all radar detectors are still legal - so have fun boys


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

InCarAudioVideo said:


> But all Radar detectors are ILLEGAL here in Australia


Bel STi driver for you, then, I guess. 

They are illegal in some states here (e.g. Virginia - fortunately I never want to be in Virginia, anyway) but mostly legal. Same way with laser jammers, illegal in some states, but legal in most.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

InCarAudioVideo said:


> But all Radar detectors are ILLEGAL here in Australia, and I just found out of a new "*safety camera*" that's in place in some key intersections, how it works is like this: if you speed on a yellow light beyond the speed limit, then you will get booked for speeding, if you missed the yellow and the light turned to red, you will get booked for ignoring a red light, if you are smart enough to do both you get both tickets and points off your license for both offenses!
> 
> Luckily in the US all radar detectors are still legal - so have fun boys


here in missouri they all but made red light camera illegal or just plain pointless. since they mail you your ticket and an officer never issued you the ticket and make you sign it. you can just throw them away. 

they have no proof you ever received it (they dont mail it certified or registered) and no officier issuing = not legal. I understand this is the case in ALOT of states.


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## DR OBLIVION (Jun 16, 2009)

I live in California right between San Francisco and Los Angeles, which is one reason I love living in the central valley. 3hrs to S.F. 4 hrs to L.A. 6hrs to San Diego and about 7hrs to Las Vegas, NV. I never leave on a road trip without a radar detector. I'm currently using a cheap $40 Whistler that I purchased on Amazon and it just saved my anus big time on the way back from San Diego. So far, I don't see a reason to upgrade anytime soon.


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## Ankit69 (Oct 13, 2009)

i would suggest the valentine one. best radar imo.


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

Ankit69 said:


> i would suggest the valentine one. best radar imo.


Doesn't test as good for the price of others. Its gimmicky and picks up false alerts more often than any other. 

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


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## Ankit69 (Oct 13, 2009)

agreed it picks up more false alerts. what else tests better?


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

I liked my Bel v955 before it was stolen. All the tests showed it had great range few false alerts and unless you need GPS will do everything. The newest Bel will pick up from 14 miles. The red one or something similar. 

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


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## Ankit69 (Oct 13, 2009)

1/4 mile right? not 14 miles


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

spl152db said:


> I liked my Bel v955 before it was stolen. All the tests showed it had great range few false alerts and unless you need GPS will do everything. The newest Bel will pick up from 14 miles. The red one or something similar.
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


Please send a link to those tests. I'd like to read them myself. 

Thanks, 
Kelvin


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

14 miles. Www.Radartest.com 

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

Perhaps, but being a Bel, it will have no off-axis performance. At all. I'll stick to my V1. My Escort Passport 8500 X50 = POS.


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

dragonrage said:


> Perhaps, but being a Bel, it will have no off-axis performance. At all. I'll stick to my V1. My Escort Passport 8500 X50 = POS.


I don't like the escorts but that's me. The "off axis" detection means false alerts, radar behind you (which isn't gunning you) nothing that matters. Tell me one instance where the radar "off axis" that was beyond the 80 degree field in front of you made a difference? and cool chirping and arrows of your false alerts don't count.


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

Things must be very different where you live, because here, cops will often try to hide in such a way that they are reading you from behind. My V1 is amazing at it. And my X50 can't easily detect a cop that's around a curve a bit up in the road, whereas my V1 can. And I didn't care about the arrows when I upgraded to the V1 - I just wanted better off-axis performance - but I find myself a huge fan of the arrows and the counter.

My V1 is WAY, WAY better than my X50. And that is NOT a subjective opinion, at least not when it comes to my specific units. I've sent the Escort back to the factory twice with the complaint that it sucks. They've tested it within spec and even replaced the antenna assembly. It changed nothing. It's not even close. It's not impossible that my X50 just sucks and that Escort has just failed to fix it twice, but I'm not about to buy another Escort RD to test that possibility. And I consider it unlikely since they've tried TWICE to improve ("fix" if you ask me) it, not just once.

Bel is the same as Escort. My X50 is the same as a Bel RX65 with different casing. Your 995 is a step down from the RX65.

The V1 is definitely 'chattier' but it's a worthwhile trade to have a RD that actually does its job.


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

dragonrage said:


> Things must be very different where you live, because here, cops will often try to hide in such a way that they are reading you from behind. My V1 is amazing at it. And my X50 can't easily detect a cop that's around a curve a bit up in the road, whereas my V1 can. And I didn't care about the arrows when I upgraded to the V1 - I just wanted better off-axis performance - but I find myself a huge fan of the arrows and the counter.
> 
> My V1 is WAY, WAY better than my X50. And that is NOT a subjective opinion, at least not when it comes to my specific units. I've sent the Escort back to the factory twice with the complaint that it sucks. They've tested it within spec and even replaced the antenna assembly. It changed nothing. It's not even close. It's not impossible that my X50 just sucks and that Escort has just failed to fix it twice, but I'm not about to buy another Escort RD to test that possibility. And I consider it unlikely since they've tried TWICE to improve ("fix" if you ask me) it, not just once.
> 
> ...


its not a step down actually it just doesn't have worthless gps which I think hinders performance. I had that same escort. it sucked. I always had plenty of warning from my Bel. and the only way a gun from behind would work is if they never gunned anyone for a few miles of me coming up on it. most traps i could pick up about 2 miles to 5 miles away. im not joking either.


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## chemical_brother (Feb 7, 2007)

I've had a few good saves since buying the Passport 9500ix this summer. Definitely worth the price!

Although, it would be smarter to just slow down.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Bel STi.

Have had the V1.

Escort 9500 I think was the model number

and a cobra 9XXX series... Can't remember. 

Only ticket was in Georgia. Laser was used. Detector went off but it was to late.


On a flat road, the Bel has picked up 7-10 miles away. It is simply superior to everyone I have had including an updated V1. Not cheap but has been worth it.

I drive ~60000 miles a year


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## Capt G (May 23, 2011)

Sorry to revive an old thread, but sometimes you read something that is so blatantly incorrect that you have no choice but to correct it lest others be mislead.

There isn't a 12 volt radar unit made which can transmit further than five miles. They don't have enough power to do so. Can atmospheric conditions create a condition where a detector would pick up a signal that far out or further? Sure, but it's always due to an atmospheric anomaly that it does, and that's a detector picking up a reflected and diffused signal, and not a radar gun making a speed resolution on your vehicle. Two miles, for a large target like a semi-truck and trailer is about maximum for just an unreliable speed resolution and that's using X-band radar.

The second reason 7-10 mile range estimates, let alone 14 mile range estimates, are ridiculous are because radar is a line of sight device. Ever notice a ship on the horizon, and how you can see its masts, or house, but you cannot yet see its hull? That's because of the curvature of the earth, with the horizon coming between your line of sight and the ship's hull. From a height of five feet, the horizon is three miles away, which means neither your eye, nor a radar gun, can see anything shorter than five feet at a distance greater than six miles, assuming the radar gun transmits from a height of five feet. 

That's why semi-trucks get tracked at a further distance than cars...because their trailers and fairings stick up a lot higher than does a car. But the furthest, absent refraction, you're going to see a car picked up at is maybe five miles, though even that would be exceedingly rare, simply because 12 volt radar runs out of power, and its beam width becomes so scattered, at that distance, that it and any warning is useless.

The silliness, and danger, in focusing in on radar range alone, to the exception of accurate data is, when getting an alert on a detector, you have no idea how far away the radar transmitter is. A weak detector signal can equally be from a radar gun far away as it can from one 200 yds away with the power dialed down. That's where sensitivity meets selectivity. A good detector will reject an intermittent weak signal coming from long range, while never dropping a weak, but consistent, signal from near by. A driver who thinks a weak signal is far away is setting himself up for an expensive time out from driving.

(Note that the Bel STr and the Escort Redline are designed for trucks, which not only have a higher radar profile, but take longer to slow down, while also much more willing to accept false signals.)

All of the top detectors will do a good job for you, and since you've read this far into my diatribe, I'll provide the latest test results (from objective testers not selling detectors) for your trouble, oldest first, all worth reading.

Radar Detector Tests and Reviews by Guys of LIDAR - Radar Detector Test 2009

Escort Passport Max vs. Valentine One – Comparison Test – Car and Driver

The Best Radar Detector | The Wirecutter


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## jonatbaylor (Aug 20, 2009)

I have a Bel STIR Plus. It has the shifter paddles which are the jammers and I have those front and rear.

After 75k miles and 4 states over the last 2-3 years, I have never been pulled over for speeding.

imho, it is the best one out there. I hear there is a newer system that is better but I cannot remember the name. The 'better' aspect is that the newer system (not sure of hte manufacturer) uses an algorithm and not a database to jam laser. However, in TX, Kansas, OK and NM I have never had an issue with my STIR Plus being outdated. OK, I just looked up the 'better' jammer and its the Antilaser Priority Laer Jamming System. I do not have it, so I cannot claim personal experience.

My STIR Plus has a gps system that alerts to speed traps and red light cameras (I never run red lights anyways), it is absolutely stealth and does not hang on the dash. Plus, it jams. 

I have no kickback or financial incentive and I recommend checking out radar roys website.


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## Lou Frasier2 (Jul 17, 2012)

no need for radar detectors


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

jonatbaylor said:


> I have a Bel STIR Plus. It has the shifter paddles which are the jammers and I have those front and rear.
> 
> After 75k miles and 4 states over the last 2-3 years, I have never been pulled over for speeding.
> 
> ...


yup. sti-r with laser jammers is a great combo. not cheap though


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## jonatbaylor (Aug 20, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> yup. sti-r with laser jammers is a great combo. not cheap though


You are right, they are not cheap. I do see them new on ebay for 850-1200 normally without shifters. Direct from Beltronics they are 1249.00 without the shifters (jammers).

However, with my amount of driving it is worth not getting multiple tickets, plus the more costly points on insurance.


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## jonatbaylor (Aug 20, 2009)

Lou Frasier2 said:


> no need for radar detectors


get off my lawn!


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

Lou Frasier2 said:


> no need for radar detectors


found the vegan crossfit dinosaur.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

jonatbaylor said:


> I have a Bel STIR Plus. It has the shifter paddles which are the jammers and I have those front and rear.
> 
> After 75k miles and 4 states over the last 2-3 years, I have never been pulled over for speeding.
> 
> ...




I've got an STiR Plus radar detector. It's a very good radar detector.
I went with the radar-mirror display which is super cool. It makes the detector completely stealth install.

The laser jammer upgrade that they offer on the Bel & Escort (same company) detectors is not very good compared to the competition, however. I ended up getting the Blinder HP-905 jammer which consistently has tested better. However, even the Blinder is considered obsolete now.

The best laser protection on the market currently is the Anti-Laser Priority. It is the 1st jammer that can jam the newer variable pulse rate laser guns like the Dragon Eye.

There is a new entry to the market called Stinger VIP. The initial reports are very good on it. It does both radar detection and laser jamming. The radar sensor is a patch antenna which is completely different technology than every other radar detector previously designed. The range is even better.
The laser jammers are also very small and easy to hide.

The Stinger is crazy expensive, however. About $3000-4000 for a basic system with front protection only, and that's before installation cost. 

Currently trying to decide which system is going into my Mercedes. It's either going to be a Bel STIR Plus with Anti-Laser Priority, or I'll do the Stinger VIP with Fiber Optic laser jammer (front only).


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