# New Brax DSP - anyone got info?



## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

I've seen a handful of posts and some brief discussion on various sites, about a new DSP that BRAX is set to release... but can't seem to find anything concrete. I'm not talking about their NOX Series amps with built-in DSP (or the Helix DSP). 

From what I understand this is a stand-alone Brax DSP, which will have Toslink optical outputs for ALL CHANNELS - to interface with their MX Series amplifiers (which have optical inputs).

Anyone have any further info on this unit?


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

With how much people love the helix dsp's I'm sure this will be top notch when available. 

Love the idea of optical out too. Would be able to finally utilize all of the brax amps features


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

I would think that if something were forthcoming in 2016, we might get a glimpse or announcement in January at CES?


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

This is the email I got back on December 4th, from one of the head guys over at Audiotec Fischer in regard to the BRAX DSP.

"Dear Sir,

the BRAX DSP has been postponed to an unknown release date due to other projects.

Regards,
Robin Krichel"

*As soon as it is available, I am getting one.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

#1BigMike said:


> This is the email I got back on December 4th, from one of the head guys over at Audiotec Fischer in regard to the BRAX DSP.
> 
> "Dear Sir,
> 
> ...


Probably never, Brax is not a big seller for them,lower grade is.
DSP pro with extensions is as good as it gets, simply rebadging it would be their way to reach Brax nuthuggers.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> Probably never, Brax is not a big seller for them,lower grade is.
> DSP pro with extensions is as good as it gets, simply rebadging it would be their way to reach Brax nuthuggers.


You're probably right. Make a heatsink/case to match the Matrix amps, change the logo in the software and charge a premium. Done.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> Probably never, Brax is not a big seller for them,lower grade is.
> DSP pro with extensions is as good as it gets, simply rebadging it would be their way to reach Brax nuthuggers.


I'll be honest... I don't care if it's a Brax branded unit, or a Helix. I am just interested in the Toslink optical outputs. If they made a modified version of the DSP Pro, with optical outputs for every channel, I'd be just fine with that. 

I guess I'm failing to see why they would release the MX Series of amplifiers, with optical inputs, if there is no way to connect to them.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

jimmydee said:


> I'll be honest... I don't care if it's a Brax branded unit, or a Helix. I am just interested in the Toslink optical outputs. If they made a modified version of the DSP Pro, with optical outputs for every channel, I'd be just fine with that.
> 
> I guess I'm failing to see why they would release the MX Series of amplifiers, with optical inputs, if there is no way to connect to them.



Like any manufacturer will ever release everything in one model and cut future sales by 90%.....
You buy one and upgrade as new features released.. aren`t dsp pro can be upgraded to have optical out or reassign optical to be an out instead if input?
I didn`t dig that deep in their software but that would be my guess.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> aren`t dsp pro can be upgraded to have optical out or reassign optical to be an out instead if input?
> I didn`t dig that deep in their software but that would be my guess.


The DSP Pro has an add-on module, which provides a single optical out.

My understanding of the Brax DSP design, is that it has an optical output for EVERY channel (8 or 10 optical output channels)
The intent is to run a Toslink Optical cable into the MX Series amplifiers (which have optical inputs)


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Where there's a will there's a way. My friend who mods electronics says it's pretty easy to convert to optical.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Single toslink strand is good for 5.1 why would anyone need separate toslink for each ch?
I'm trying to understand the problem.

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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Convention from spdif to toslink is a piece of cake.your friend is correct 

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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> Single toslink strand is good for 5.1 why would anyone need separate toslink for each ch?
> I'm trying to understand the problem.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


The Toslink optical output on the Helix DSP-Pro is only a 2 channel stereo output. I believe it is configurable as Channels 1 & 2 of the DSP output.
I'm looking for 8 or 10 channels of independent optical output. The same as the RCA outputs, only optical.

Anyways, I don't want to get hung-up on what the current Helix unit can (or can't) do. I was just wondering if anyone had updated info on the proposed Brax unit. 
Seems as though Brax has designed amplifiers, with the intent of driving them optically with a new DSP... but then abandoned the DSP project.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

I am listening!!!


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

From business stand point I understand their decision. Investing chunk of cash in possible sell of 1000 units around the globe is bad business. 
I've heard rumors that brax brand will be sold to China and only Helix and match will remain. So them cleaning development makes perfect sense.


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## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

say it isn't so


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

#1BigMike said:


> say it isn't so


I say "amen" when I hear a pray so I say "amen" brother.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> I've heard rumors that brax brand will be sold to China and only Helix and Match will remain.



Sadly, I've heard this rumor too...


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## Kenneth M (Oct 14, 2014)

Ffffffffffffffffffffff.....

I've been dumping massive amounts of loot in making my R1 track prepped. I guess I'll have to swing the Brax amps for my subs within the next couple of months and run another brand for my mids/highs because there is no way I can financially stretch all of it that quickly. 

Not happy about this, but I'm really happy I know this sooner than later. Thx guys.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

jimmydee said:


> The DSP Pro has an add-on module, which provides a single optical out.
> 
> My understanding of the Brax DSP design, is that it has an optical output for EVERY channel (8 or 10 optical output channels)
> The intent is to run a Toslink Optical cable into the MX Series amplifiers (which have optical inputs)



As I understand it, the Helix optical out is also pre-crossover.

The proposed optical outs from the Brax DSP would be post-crossover.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Victor_inox said:


> Single toslink strand is good for 5.1 why would anyone need separate toslink for each ch?
> I'm trying to understand the problem.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


If you only used a single output it could only go to one amp. Fine for something like the Audison Voce 5.1, but if you want separate amps, you need more than one output.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Since the DSP's are typically mounted very close to the amplifiers anyway, I don't necessarily see the need for the optical over such a short distance. It's going to have to have a D/A conversion either at the DSP or amplifier level so 3 foot (or less) RCA's from the DSP Pro to the inputs of the Brax should be more than fine...no?


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## Ericm1205 (May 10, 2016)

captainobvious said:


> Since the DSP's are typically mounted very close to the amplifiers anyway, I don't necessarily see the need for the optical over such a short distance. It's going to have to have a D/A conversion either at the DSP or amplifier level so 3 foot (or less) RCA's from the DSP Pro to the inputs of the Brax should be more than fine...no?


and with fiber i think it has to be atleast 3ft long and you cant bend it at more than a 90 angle or you will break the core. so if your in with tight space fiber doesnt make sense


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ericm1205 said:


> and with fiber i think it has to be atleast 3ft long and you cant bend it at more than a 90 angle or you will break the core. so if your in with tight space fiber doesnt make sense


i dont think this is true. my astro gaming headphones use fiber optic and i used to coil it up to cut down on slack in 4 or 5 inch diameter circles without issue


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Ericm1205 said:


> and with fiber i think it has to be atleast 3ft long and you cant bend it at more than a 90 angle or you will break the core. so if your in with tight space fiber doesnt make sense




I have a 20" fiber optic cable from Lifatec. They will custom make them to any length. Just sayin'


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> i dont think this is true. my astro gaming headphones use fiber optic and i used to coil it up to cut down on slack in 4 or 5 inch diameter circles without issue




Most optical cables are not glass but plastic. They are more durable but don't perform as well as glass.

It's never a good idea to coil an optical cable any smaller than about 6" diameter circle.


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## Kenneth M (Oct 14, 2014)

I hope this thing is....

1) Able to slave other Brax DSP's for extra channels. 
2) Is DTS Neural capable for all channels. 
3) Uses a high quality DSP chip (like the Texas Instraments one Bewith used to use) for a vast step up in SQ vs their Helix offering. 

If they do all these three things, plus include everything the Helix DSP Pro already does, I will be one very happy guy.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Also, where did this thread come from and why was it revived? I have never seen or heard any talk of a brax dsp except for this thread

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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> Also, where did this thread come from and why was it revived? I have never seen or heard any talk of a brax dsp except for this thread
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk




It's coming. Heinz Fischer was telling competitors about it at the last EMMA Finals.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Well ****.. I wonder when we will hear about it. Wasn't there also rumors of brax closing it's doors?

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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> Well ****.. I wonder when we will hear about it. Wasn't there also rumors of brax closing it's doors?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk




I have no idea where that rumor came from.


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## TravisT (Mar 20, 2014)

im in serious debate upgrading from my 360.3, would you guys suggest waiting for this "new" dip coming available or purchasing the Heli dsp / dsp pro?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

TravisT said:


> im in serious debate upgrading from my 360.3, would you guys suggest waiting for this "new" dip coming available or purchasing the Heli dsp / dsp pro?


I doubt this will be out anytime soon. I'd just get the helix

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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Kenneth M said:


> I hope this thing is....
> 
> 1) Able to slave other Brax DSP's for extra channels.
> *2) Is DTS Neural capable for all channels. *
> ...


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## Kenneth M (Oct 14, 2014)

rton20s said:


>


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/3689169-post49.html

Care to elaborate, or are you just going to patronize without qualifying yourself?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Kenneth M said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/3689169-post49.html
> 
> Care to elaborate, or are you just going to patronize without qualifying yourself?


Why don't you ask Darth SQ, aka PPI ART COLLECTOR, aka Bret Mason about purchasing one of Andy's handy dandy DSP amps. I'm sure he would love to talk about it. 

You want DTS Neural, it is a truly DIY endeavor right now. Who knows, maybe Andy will even be nice enough to point you in the right direction. 

I do not foresee Brax tackling this any time soon. Even a DSP currently in production that does more than L+R and calls it a center channel is pretty rare right now.


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## Kraken (Oct 2, 2015)

I think newer Honda and Acura HU's comes with DTS Neural. Not sure why aftermarket products are so hesitant to add this feature.


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## Kenneth M (Oct 14, 2014)

rton20s said:


> Why don't you ask Darth SQ, aka PPI ART COLLECTOR, aka Bret Mason about purchasing one of Andy's handy dandy DSP amps. I'm sure he would love to talk about it.
> 
> You want DTS Neural, it is a truly DIY endeavor right now. Who knows, maybe Andy will even be nice enough to point you in the right direction.
> 
> I do not foresee Brax tackling this any time soon. Even a DSP currently in production that does more than L+R and calls it a center channel is pretty rare right now.


rton - Thank you for qualifying yourself. It is most appreciated!

My reasons for suggesting Brax put it in is this:

Firstly, we are hurting as a community for absolute sound quality from active DSPs. The Helix is somewhat lacking in this department and you can tell by some of the questions and frustration echoed on this forum. Running passive and keeping the signal analog is preferred by some because of this, or 12v conversions of home DSPs such as the DEQX has been done with game changing results. I have no doubt that Heinz Fisher is addressing this with the new Brax DSP. I am comfortable in saying that the new Brax DSP will likely sound like an unaltered signal, save intended adjustments by the user. Whether Audio Frog will spend the amount of money on R&D to match this level of fidelity is in the air. In my humble opinion, the SQ platform with the Brax unit is likely to be more refined. 

Next, we already have a product that has been tried and true in reliability, and an interface that is already widely understood by the user. 

I am a selfish person, and would like the best of both worlds. If I can change a tune by a quick turn of the knob, courtesy of the DSP Director, and go from tuned for two, to tuned for one, cutting most (if not all) center channels and introduce a phenomenal soundstage, that would be a most notable level of brilliance. 

All that's needed is Brax to add slave ability and put DTS coding in an already brilliant platform. 


On to Audio Frog and Andy, and my personal situation, I have noticed that he has very little time to afford to people that are not invested in his products. He is emulating Scott Buwalda's business model in this way. I have already invested a handsome sum of money in another brand of speakers and don't want to buy Audio Frog speakers so that I can get Andy's attention. And so it should be. He should use his unprecedented wealth of knowledge to showcase his product; not another company's. And I completely respect and honor that. So my suggestion that Brax adds DTS Neural and the ability to slave other Brax DSP's helps solve the problem of asking for help from a man with whom I've never invested in. And I think that (without many people on this forum would like to openly admit) most would prefer to use and add to their existing speakers and run a 2+ tune. 

Lastly, I don't want to offend anyone by my suggestions. I am just a consumer that speaks his opinion on what he would like. And I think, at the end of the day, a Brax DSP with my suggestions would lay an unprecedented groundwork for us to start experimenting with tuning for 2+.... And am confident that the majority of you silently agree.


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## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

What i am hoping for is a processor that has optical outputs for each left and right channel. Left and right info per optical is feasible.
Looking at my MX4`s and MX2 amp. Each amp has optical inputs per side(s). 
The ideal situation would be optical from the source to the processor. Then from the processor to the amps. 

The amps have already been built to accept the optical inputs. Pretty stoked to say the least.

My amps have optical inputs. All 3 of them.


Center channel DTS... Alpine H900 has the capabilities and it was over looked. H800 is currently on the market. Who is using the processor for DTS with a center channel ? Not many . AI-NET went by the way side. F1 Status also got shelved . Alpine has very deep pockets. Deeper then most companies. 

The problem we have working on the sales floor is this.
Selling this package to consumers is hard to say the least. Deck and four keep the installers working and making a pay check. Big builds just do not happen often. Selling that many speakers, processor and amps is not an everyday sell. 
It is about money, making money and selling a product. End of story !! 

DTS, Alpine H800 has it already. As a consumer I suggest you buy one and give it a go. We still have one installed in the family car, unless it is DTS encoded from the source, you do not reap the benefits of a center channel. 
No DTS encoded media, no center channel. 
I work in this industry, I listen to installers, business owners and consumers. 

Very hard to sell a center channel processor, speakers, amps. parts , fabrication and labor. This has to happen like a revolving door, or it will not work. 
Business model will simply not work. 

The Brax Processor will possibly be something geared to a two channel stereo system. Something that will work with the platform that has been established. Their MX amplifier line.


This is just my humble opinion.


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## jbowers (May 3, 2009)

Kenneth M said:


> On to Audio Frog and Andy, and my personal situation, I have noticed that he has very little time to afford to people that are not invested in his products. He is emulating Scott Buwalda's business model in this way. I have already invested a handsome sum of money in another brand of speakers and don't want to buy Audio Frog speakers so that I can get Andy's attention. And so it should be. He should use his unprecedented wealth of knowledge to showcase his product; not another company's. And I completely respect and honor that. So my suggestion that Brax adds DTS Neural and the ability to slave other Brax DSP's helps solve the problem of asking for help from a man with whom I've never invested in. And I think that (without many people on this forum would like to openly admit) most would prefer to use and add to their existing speakers and run a 2+ tune.


You obviously haven't been around this forum as long as many of us have. I spent years lurking before I ever posted, and I've seen Andy share far more knowledge with people on a wide variety of topics than the vast majority of people here, especially for someone in his position. I was in the 12 volt industry for quite a long time, selling and installing equipment and acquiring quite a lot of knowledge myself, and while the only Andy Wehmeyer affiliated equipment I've ever owned was a refurbished MS-8 that arrived DOA and was never installed I've learned as much as or more from his posts than in all my years in the industry. He was with a massive company and had no reason to hang out on our little nerd board, yet he does because of the love of car audio. Give the man a break, he's running a very young company and has a lot more responsibility than he used to. Don't run him off the forum by disrespecting everything he's given to the community.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

My hope is that any new DSP product coming to market would begin to close the gap in functionality between car DSP and pro-audio DSP.

Things like:

Much more delay. Car DSPs typically have 15ms delay possible, which is less than half of what's necessary for rear fill. I want 30+ ms, at minimum.
Pro DSPs usually have several full seconds of delay possible.

Separate EQ for input side and output side. The Helix Pro offers this now, but it only works on the analog inputs and it's only a 5 band parametric. Pro audio DSPs usually have a full 31 band on the input side, with 8 or 10 band on the output side.

FIR filters. Linear phase crossovers.
And make sure they have enough taps to do bass range filters with decent resolution.


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

Out now 


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

MrGreen83 said:


> Out now



????


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

subterFUSE said:


> ????




T-h-e B-R-A-X D-S-P i-s n-o-w a-v-a-i-l-a-b-l-e 


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

MrGreen83 said:


> T-h-e B-R-A-X D-S-P i-s n-o-w a-v-a-i-l-a-b-l-e



Not on their website yet.

Do you have a link?


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

subterFUSE said:


> Not on their website yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link?















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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Looks like it’s available to order from authorized dealers? Here is the order form posted on their Facebook page.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Fake news until we hear it from Audiotec Fischer Germany.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

It has been unofficially available to order for a short bit now. But yes, it is now fully available. The Singapore guys always post before the official page does. Idk why.

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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Any word on if it features their center channel algorithm?


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

I need software to test drive.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Any word on if it features their center channel algorithm?


Yes


subterFUSE said:


> I need software to test drive.


It's the same software from what I understand, just a few things are different.

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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

There is a new software update for it, but mostly just to include the Brax processor and a new screen to make adjustments to items specific to that model. 

All of the new signal processing algorithms are included including “RealCenter” bass enhancement and stage expander. 

The DSP is available and they are being made as soon as they are ordered.


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## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

Any word on price yet?


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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

Suggested retail is $6500.


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

That escalated quickly 


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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

Lots of great new technology and fantastic parts used.


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## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

I don’t doubt it, but I’ll hold out for the new dsp Pro 


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

dobslob said:


> Suggested retail is *$6500*.


Wow!


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

It's definitely nice to have another option available and more competition for higher quality and expanded features to push the development of future offerings from other manufacturers.

While expensive, it seems in line with their other offerings, such as the MX4 amps, which do not require any software to be developed along side it. Specialty software engineering and development is a huge expense that not many consider with these types of products. And IME, A-F took the time to develop really great software.


Anyone have the Physical Dimensions of this DSP? Length x Width x Height?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

bbfoto said:


> Anyone have the Physical Dimensions of this DSP? Length x Width x Height?


Preferred unit of measurement is stacks of $100 bills.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

rton20s said:


> Preferred unit of measurement is stacks of $100 bills.


Haha! No doubt!


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

What are the new features?


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## aholland1198 (Oct 7, 2009)

That’s a long list, and I’m not 100% on all of it. What I do know is the signal stays digital until the output stage, when using the new brax amps, and it has all the new upmixing Jazz. 


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## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

bbfoto said:


> It's definitely nice to have another option available and more competition for higher quality and expanded features to push the development of future offerings from other manufacturers.
> 
> While expensive, it seems in line with their other offerings, such as the MX4 amps, which do not require any software to be developed along side it. Specialty software engineering and development is a huge expense that not many consider with these types of products. And IME, A-F took the time to develop really great software.
> 
> ...


We don't have any more at the office, but I will measure the next one, although it will likely be up on the site in the next few days.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I'm hoping for a great expanded feature set and elite quality parts for that ask.


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## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

I am seriously considering this BRAX DSP as a head unit to replace my Sony RSX-GS9. I don't use FM radio, and I can always buy outboard handsfree bluetooth connection for the phone call (connected to BRAX DSP via analog RCA connection). 

As part of my research,
BRAX Distributor in USA confirmed that the BRAX DSP can work as USB DAC accepting digital input from iPhone (as High Res Music Player) just like the Sony RSX-GS9. (note, BRAX US Distributor had been great with detailed and timely response, I really appreciate it).

From them, I found out that I will need to add the optional USB module, Bluetooth module (not for the bluetooth phone call function but just music streaming) and the Helix Director, which make the total list price become around $7,250... 

I know, nobody pay retail price, but even at "discounted price from dealer"... it will still be a very substantial investment considering the DAC chip is still the older version AK4490EQ...
I never knew about the DAC chip model until I dig deep into BRAX DSP spec today...

The AK4490EQ was launched back in 2014... 
was superseded by AK4493EQ 
which then superseded by AK4497EQ 
and 2 months ago superseded again by AK4499EQ.
In the high end home audio circle, the AK4490EQ already considered obsolete now...

I currently have the latest TEAC NT-505 DAC/Pre-Amp for my home audio system that use AK4497EQ DAC chip and I think the AKM DAC sounds smoother than the ESS Sabre based DAC like in my Sony RSX-GS9 head unit.

At this price, I wish the BRAX DSP came with at least AK4497EQ that was released back in 2016:
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/aboutus/news/20160107AK4497_001/

and the AK4497EQ is not even the latest and greatest DAC chip from AKM which is now the AK4499EQ (just launch 2 months ago):
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/aboutus/news/20181207AK4499_001/

Again, I understand that the sounds of a DSP is not just effected by it's DAC chip but also by the analog circuit and power supply design around it, and i have no doubt BRAX spare no cost in those area. I also understand that the price of entry also reflect (and maintain) exclusivity among it's owner...

but still, I hope BRAX will adjust the pricing for the BRAX DSP...
or 

alternatively upgrade the DAC to AKM AK4499EQ to justify the pricing as the most expensive Car Audio DSP currently on the market.
just like the lower priced Zapco latest DSP which had options for upgraded DAC...

note: I also notice the software interface is the DSP PC-Tool Version 4 which shared with Helix DSP line, so the development cost for this software was shared among several platforms.


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## VincMartel (Mar 21, 2017)

Considering the 4497 chip is 80$ (canadian!), this is disappointing...


https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/akm-semiconductor-inc/AK4497EQ/974-1142-1-ND/6235385


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

BMW Alpina said:


> I am seriously considering this BRAX DSP as a head unit to replace my Sony RSX-GS9. I don't use FM radio, and I can always buy outboard handsfree bluetooth connection for the phone call (connected to BRAX DSP via analog RCA connection).
> 
> As part of my research,
> BRAX Distributor in USA confirmed that the BRAX DSP can work as USB DAC accepting digital input from iPhone (as High Res Music Player) just like the Sony RSX-GS9. (note, BRAX US Distributor had been great with detailed and timely response, I really appreciate it).
> ...




If you buy this DSP and use the optical or coax inputs the DACS at the end so in this case the dac on the MX amps - the DSP dacs is only important in analogue output


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

BMW Alpina said:


> I am seriously considering this BRAX DSP as a head unit to replace my Sony RSX-GS9. I don't use FM radio, and I can always buy outboard handsfree bluetooth connection for the phone call (connected to BRAX DSP via analog RCA connection).
> 
> As part of my research,
> BRAX Distributor in USA confirmed that the BRAX DSP can work as USB DAC accepting digital input from iPhone (as High Res Music Player) just like the Sony RSX-GS9. (note, BRAX US Distributor had been great with detailed and timely response, I really appreciate it).
> ...




I would use the Sony optically into the Brax... the Sony’s dac is the problem in that HU...


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Elektra said:


> I would use the Sony optically into the Brax... the Sony’s dac is the problem in that HU...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Problem in what way?


There is no point in using the Sony via Optical output. That defeats all of the strengths of the design of the unit.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

captainobvious said:


> Problem in what way?
> 
> 
> There is no point in using the Sony via Optical output. That defeats all of the strengths of the design of the unit.




There was a 3rd party test where the unit was measured and it had pretty poor results in some aspects of the measuring 

It was connected to a external dac via the optical and it performed much better with a SNR of more than 20db improvement via the external dac 

The comments of the reviewer or tester was that the preamp wasn’t the issue and the problem lay in the dac as it tested so poorly compared to other dacs he had tested 

It tested in the last 3 or 4 worst performers at 90db SNR where the best was 114db...

Over here we did a test to see how technology has changed in the last 10 -15 years and we tested a Alpine CDA -7990 against the Sony and both units performed better when it was tested via the optical into a home preamp 

Can’t remember what preamp/amp was used but they used pretty high end Focal Home speakers - one or two models below the Grande Utopia...

While I do get the Sony and owned one as well I found the unit extremely temperamental some tracks sounded great while some sounded crap..

For me the amount of crap sounding recordings vs great sounding was heavily outweighed in favor of crap recordings - this bothered me intently as 70% of music collection was unlistenable where it was never like that before....

Switched to a P99 and now 100% of my music is listenable even the known crap recordings 

I always wanted to try the optical as I have the Helix Pro 2 but I didn’t have any optical cables and it was a PITA to try it...

If I bought the Brax DSP I would consider the Sony again as it can take advantage of the better preamp and DAC section in the Brax 

Over here the few who have the Sony all complain about the same thing - it’s overly detailed misconstrued as “bright” 

Personally have spent hours tuning the Sony - literally days - I went through a stage that when I had to wait for my kids at school I would bring my laptop and mic and tune the car - tried every curve - JBL Helix etc... 

Sounded decent on good tracks sounded absolutely crap on other tracks to a point I would just turn the system off and listen to road noise... drove me mad! 

I decided on the P99 purely because it had the USB - connected both HUs side by side IN THE CAR - and I had a AF or JBL curve which I measured before switching to confirm... 

Just the switch had a vast difference in sound - it was so large I thought the P99 had a different a completely different response - turns out after measuring it was identical within 0.25dbs at some points 

With the JBL or AF curve the car sounds just about perfect - I haven’t tuned the car in months since I switched over - generally much happier with car..

I was even going to look at changing the speakers to something else as I though my Utopia Kit 7 was at times blindingly bright - now it’s just smooth and mellow....

Seriously I know the Sony is super popular over there and a lot of guys use the very same combo I have - but there was something wrong with the way it sounded in the car - at home when I ran it off my MX4 and Dynaudio home speakers I could listen to it for hours - may just be a distance to the speaker thing as I was 5m away from the Dyns when in the car the closest speaker was 700mm to me...

Don’t get me wrong when the Sony sounded great it was great! But there were more crap than great which annoyed me far to much at the end...

There are some tracks I play on my P99 that have something in the recording that the Sony just didn’t have it was hard to explain... 

I’ll try the Sony again when I have access to a dac via the optical again 

But the famous DAC in the Sony isn’t as great as I hoped it would be... I mean I bought a LG V20 which had a Sabre 32bit dac and to be honest my IPhone 6 Plus sounded better.... 

For me the AKM and the Burr Brown Dacs in the F1 status units are the best available - the Sabre Dacs are probably better sounding on DSD tracks which I have none so it’s pointless....


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## Seedubchris (Dec 25, 2018)

I have saber DACs everywhere in my pro studio . They are the most commonly used off the shelf dac for pro audio reference. It isn’t the latest and greatest any more but in 2014 it seemed like the saber dac was the dac of choice. At the time of its release the only DACs that had a higher rated output was the Chord “Dave”. ($10k FPGA dac) . With such wide acceptance of this dac I’m consistently surprised how much it gets bashed in the mobile world . I’m not saying it has its native output out of the Sony but I wonder how or why they screwed up the implementation of it. The chip works great in my monitor controller as well as many other devices I’m perfectly happy with .


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