# Pics of wo32 [Pete at work]



## Oliver




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## Oliver




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## Oliver




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## Oliver




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## Oliver




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## ClinesSelect

Pete's work and attention to detail is very impressive.









Nice to have you back Hic.


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## 60ndown

my wo32 sounded best, and took up much less room, when i stood it on edge, so it fired its output down onto the floor on short legs.you might want to get pete to fill those holes.


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## Oliver

60ndown said:


> my wo32 sounded best, and took up much less room, when i stood it on edge, so it fired its output down onto the floor on short legs.you might want to get pete to fill those holes.


Pete and myself feel quite confident that this is how it will perform it's best !

1]wellnuts to decouple the drivers from the baffle

2]IDMAX tens [ Maximum coupling of air to cones is important for low volume playing ].

3]Six cones to decouple enclosure from floor [ the weight on this one might be excessive ] 

4]Crown amp will breathe some life into the speakers  

5]Unless Pete and myself have totally messed this up, There will be a lil bump in my life


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## Oliver

ClinesSelect said:


> Pete's work and attention to detail is very impressive.
> 
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> 
> Nice to have you back Hic.


Thank you for the shout out, I will tell Pete.

Some if not all of that is Pete's ability to understand a project goal [the outer shell will drop down from above and interlock the boards into place, this will be secured from the bottom from the inside out ]


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## cheesehead

Looking Good! 

When do you expect your first audition with this?

Sorry I have to ask!:blush: I keep noticing that square piece of oak on the bottom. Why did you use oak there? Is there any specific reasoning? Just curious:blush: 

Tell Pete fine job!

I'm glad to here you're back to work! 

Take care!


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## Oliver

cheesehead said:


> Looking Good!
> 
> When do you expect your first audition with this?
> 
> Sorry I have to ask!:blush: I keep noticing that square piece of oak on the bottom. Why did you use oak there? Is there any specific reasoning? Just curious:blush:
> 
> Tell Pete fine job!
> 
> I'm glad to here you're back to work!
> 
> Take care!


Pete is callin the shots on everything wood!

He designed the bottom passageways and method of securement on everything.

I supplied the hardware.

Thank You for the welcome back, work is coming along.[ my main contribution at work is levity, my speed is picking up on my comebacks ]


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## cheesehead

a$$hole said:


> Pete is callin the shots on everything wood!
> 
> He designed the bottom passageways and method of securement on everything.
> 
> I supplied the hardware.
> 
> Thank You for the welcome back, work is coming along.[ my main contribution at work is levity, my speed is picking up on my comebacks ]


 

Just wondering if there was a specific reason for using oak for that particular piece only. It just caught my eye.:blush: 

Keep us posted with updates!


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## Oliver

I told Pete i wanted the wires to go through the bottom as opposed to being connected to a plate amp on the box, he designed and implemented the passageways.

It'll take two people to move this one  !

Pete probably used that piece because of some personal feelings.

Wood has significant properties that mean certain things to certain people.

I understand the language of roses  

Pete has a piece of wood from a tree that was the last living thing he saw as he headed up north [all barren after a certain point ].


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## dejo

looks great and welcome back.


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## Oliver

Thank you for Pete !

Thanx for the welcome back! Dejo


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## Oliver

Don't know when it will be finished.

I'll post some more pics as we go.

The last time I saw a box this fine, I was sixteen  [some serious bump, too ]


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## 60ndown

1 more thought,

if 'pete' isnt glueing this sub togehter, but kinda clamping it with amazing woodwork skillz, and its got 2 x id max and 1000 wrms, im gonna bet apples fr oranges it buzzez and rattles like a mofo. regardles of how tight the joints are, any gaps at all and air is going to find its way thru.


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## Oliver

60ndown,

Wilbur & Orville said it will fly.

Totally off the wall box building is my specialty [see below ].

















I think outside the box as does Pete [this is not for the faint-of-heart ].


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## cheesehead

a$$hole said:


> 60ndown,
> 
> Wilbur & Orville said it will fly.
> 
> Totally off the wall box building is my specialty [see below ].
> 
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> I think outside the box as does Pete [this is not for the faint-of-heart ].


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## Oliver

she blew the lid at 80 cycles per second ,plan b went into effect


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## cheesehead

a$$hole said:


> she blew the lid at 80 cycles per second ,plan b went into effect


Please explain! 

Pic.s!


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## Oliver

The original hold downs for the lid went when it was shipped  [no gasket in place yet, the jostling around took out 4 of 6 ].

Once the lid came undone at 80 Hz test tone, Pete added screws to the clamps [problem solved ].

Aaron played it ported in his Grand Am and shook the porch about 20 yds away that Pete and Shirley were standing on.

We are ready for any and all eventualities


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## cheesehead

a$$hole said:


> The original hold downs for the lid went when it was shipped  [no gasket in place yet, the jostling around took out 4 of 6 ].
> 
> Once the lid came undone at 80 Hz test tone, Pete added screws to the clamps [problem solved ].
> 
> Aaron played it ported in his Grand Am and shook the porch about 20 yds away that Pete and Shirley were standing on.
> 
> We are ready for any and all eventualities


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## Oliver

If by some chance 60ndown is right.

Plan B or C will negate it !


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## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> 60ndown is always right.


3 of these might help,

http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=6373&categoryID=234


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## 60ndown

glue still drying?


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## Mr Marv

a$$hole said:


> 60ndown,
> 
> Wilbur & Orville said it will fly.
> 
> Totally off the wall box building is my specialty [see below ].
> 
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> I think outside the box as does Pete [this is not for the faint-of-heart ].


That looks kinda familiar!


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## Oliver

Some more pics


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## Oliver




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## Oliver




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## Oliver




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## Oliver




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## Oliver




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## speakerboy

Really nice work. Looks like he is using enough hardware to bolt a house together!


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## Oliver

The beauty of his work is just awe inspiring!

He spent most of today making a jig to cut the holes for the speakers 

Listened to some excellent CD's again today!

Pete and I discussed the add ons for horn loading the lower frequencies.

He has built a jig for assembling the enclosure, it has to be precisely aligned to come together without glue, next he will start on the outside of the enclosure.


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## tommyd

That is simply amazing. Attention to detail is beyond me. Maybe I'm just too young


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## cheesehead

Very nice Pete/Hic!

Keep the updates coming!

How's the transition back into the working world?

I was in your town this past weekend!


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## 60ndown

please can we have more pics of petes 'incredible' work that blows up @ 80hz.


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## Oliver

60ndown said:


> please can we have more pics of petes 'incredible' work that blows up @ 80hz.


Mr Marv built that one , I designed it.[yeah the pressure built up ].

There are some pics at Mr Marvs website.

It made it easier to explain ported and sealed, was why i designed it.


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## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> If by some chance 60ndown is right.
> 
> Plan B or C will negate it !





a$$hole said:


> 60ndown,
> 
> Wilbur & Orville said it will fly.
> 
> Totally off the wall box building is my specialty [see below ].
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think outside the box as does Pete [this is not for the faint-of-heart ].





a$$hole said:


> she blew the lid at 80 cycles per second ,plan b went into effect





a$$hole said:


> Mr Marv built that one , I designed it.[yeah the pressure built up ].
> 
> There are some pics at Mr Marvs website.
> 
> It made it easier to explain ported and sealed, was why i designed it.


so it was the ported box, not the wo32 'based' box that blew at 80hz?

so the wo32 'based' box hasnt played a note yet?


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## 60ndown

as for pressure in a ported box, pressure would be greatest at tuning freq, did you tune it to 80 hz for some reason?


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## 60ndown

will i feel the bass in california? if it can do 1hz @ 189deeebeeez then the length of the wave (2000miles) should reach.........right?


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## Oliver

I'm banned in California  {the san Andreas fault widened when I played some organ music }


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## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> I'm banned in California  {the san Andreas fault widened when I played some organ music }


so wheres this incredibly built box then?

looking at all them pics, i think pete is actually making your wo32 'based' subwoofer out of his old pipes 

it certainly is taking that long


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## rodH

WOW, amazing work.


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## Oliver

His jig worked excellently 

Quality can't be rushed, as some know , A little glue and some screws and you can make a box, if that is what you're after.

Build it today, throw it away tomorrow [ of course, post a review first after you throw everything together ].

"To Each Their Own"


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## FrankstonCarAudio

Hey A$$hole,

Any more pics of the progress on the current box?

Mark


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## cheesehead

60ndown said:


> so wheres this incredibly built box then?
> 
> looking at all them pics, i think pete is actually making your wo32 'based' subwoofer out of his old pipes
> 
> it certainly is taking that long




How's that saying go.............Rome wasn't built in a day!

If you couldn't tell.....This is Pete's passion not his job! If you want mass produced junk go to a big box store. If you want a piece of art you'll have to wait!


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## Oliver

Not yet 

I'll post em when i get em 

He is currently working on the outside of the enclosure, Pete's design has to be implemented using a jig to put it all together [ for alignment purposes ].

I've been working on this one for awhile, once Pete started it he knew where he wanted to go with it !

Slow but Sure 

Basically , we have two subs playing through a mutually coupled passage for reinforcement purposes.

Do to the small throat used only a certain range of frequencies will be horn loaded [based on my experience ]the IDMAX's will benefit from this.

The obvious downside will be the weight!

two heavy subs, plywood [lot's 'O' 13 ply, with some small pieces of hardwood here and there ].

This will give a solid bottom end to my various two-way speakers.


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## Oliver

a$$hole said:


> She is a beauty
Click to expand...


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## thylantyr

> Do to the small throat used only a certain range of frequencies will be horn loaded [based on my experience ]the IDMAX's will benefit from this


That design looks like the midbass will be pretty sweet,
but low frequency output is going to suffer. I would
estimate this is a 60hz - 150hz bass horn?

Maybe you can cheat and corner load the horn in the
room for some extra umph.............

You can augment this with an EBS sub and it can be a
solid combo.

random cyber pic


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## 60ndown

thylantyr said:


> That design looks like the midbass will be pretty sweet,
> but low frequency output is going to suffer. I would
> estimate this is a 60hz - 150hz bass horn?




dear gawd, he's had pete build a $3000 midbass unit?

'priceless'


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## chad

60ndown said:


> dear gawd, he's had pete build a $3000 midbass unit?
> 
> 'priceless'


I've been teasing him for some time now for building a "horn motor"


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## 60ndown

chad said:


> I've been teasing him for some time now for building a "horn motor"


i built the original wo32 exactly the way its meant to be built (except all the cawk) according to the 'designers ' blueprints, its the 'flattest' 90-20hz sub ive EVER heard.COMPLETELY FLAT (90hz has exactly the same output volume as 20hz, and every freq in between) imo/e, on an old e bay reciever (30wpc) via a good electronic x over (e bay) i could make my front rooms walls breath at half volume with dayton series 2 10" drivers.

******* has modded the design significantly, only god knows what it will sound like.


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## chad

I just fail to see the theory behind it working as well as claimed..... Now, the house wrecker or whatever it's called... yeah... a big fuggin broad banded bandpass, I see that.....


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## thylantyr

Lots of deception when it comes to bass horns.

For instance, this design got some press from those who
understood the claims.

http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32.html

At first glance, it's a bass horn with "32 to 42 Hz - 190 Hz (Loading dependent)" frequency response.

People ignore the 'Loading dependent' past as they are
clueless.

Read deeper and analyze "utilizing boundaries, enclosure walls and geometry *to form a bass horn external to the unit. *"

This isn't really a bass horn. It's a module when coupled
to proper outside geometry, forms the bass horn and
the response is variable depending on the geometry.

I've seen a nice bass horn in car audio in the mid 80's,
it was a van with four 13" woofers and the whole van
was the bass horn, it had to be this big just to get good
low end 

A few years later, I seen a design with eight 18" woofers
in a van, a bass horn. Impressive. These early ideas inspired me to experiment with bass horns. I see some
deception in their marketing claims.


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## 60ndown

chad said:


> I just fail to see the theory behind it working as well as claimed..... Now, the house wrecker or whatever it's called... yeah... a big fuggin broad banded bandpass, I see that.....


one of my serious passions in life has been bass, all i know is that i have built the housewrecker and the wo32 (and many other subwoofers personally) (exactly to plans + cawk) both do exactly what is advertised,

my experience explained simply (chad filter on) is,

my 15" hwk moves ALL THE AIR in a big room evenly, doesnt matter where in the room (or garden for that matter) you are, the bass is excellent and was experienced inside my head, not a 'chest thumping' experience but a "wow, ALL the air in the room is vibating" experience.

my wo32 could be placed somewhere where it sounded terrible, but in the right spot was unbeatably flat and as accurate as a laser guided missile absolutely accurate all the way down to as low as anything i have recored.. 

regularly i would be forced at look at the hwk and smile when i heard it do something *i particularly liked*

regulary i would be forced to glare at the wo32 and squint when i heard it do something *i just couldnt comprehend*


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## Oliver

thylantyr said:


> That design looks like the midbass will be pretty sweet,
> but low frequency output is going to suffer. I would
> estimate this is a 60hz - 150hz bass horn?


With only 5 feet how much can you actually do ?

The low frequencies will play,just not horn-loaded without an extension 

The 13AV.2,[or 2-4], in the right style of horn could augment the midbass that will be horn-loaded.


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## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> With only 5 feet how much can you actually do ?


 "you can bring musical truth to bass in a way that all discerning audiophiles can appreciate."




(if you build it right)


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## 60ndown

for $400 + shipping, ill build and ship you a 'built to speck' wo32, in 3/4" mdf.


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## annoyingrob

Maybe I missed something, but what's the purpose of building this without glue?


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## chad

annoyingrob said:


> Maybe I missed something, but what's the purpose of building this without glue?


Saving horses.


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## 60ndown

chad said:


> Saving horses.


and 'petes' mortgage payments.


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## Oliver

annoyingrob said:


> Maybe I missed something, but what's the purpose of building this without glue?


Disassembly in the advent of something needing repairs .

More pics:


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## Oliver




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## Oliver




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## 60ndown

why is all the internal wood stained when no-one will ever see it?


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## Oliver

Think , wood sealer


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## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Think , wood sealer


given that you could hold a sub up against a piece of 3/4 ply and give it 40,0000 watts and not blow any wind thru, 'what' are you sealing exactly?


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## FrankstonCarAudio

Looking fantastic, A$$hole...

I love the way everything is stained inside and out...

Just like the master craftsman of old, they finish even where it can't be seen...

Mark


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## Medicineman

60ndown said:


> given that you could hold a sub up against a piece of 3/4 ply and give it 40,0000 watts and not blow any wind thru, 'what' are you sealing exactly?


Moisture. Changes in humidity cause wood to swell or shrink. Not much of a problem with plywood but can be a big problem with solid wood depending on the species. With all the fine effort going into construction, would you expect anything less from Pete for finishing? 

I just wish I could hear that beast pound out some double bass drum. I wonder if it will be horn loaded low enough to do justice to that.


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## 60ndown

Medicineman said:


> Moisture. Changes in humidity cause wood to swell or shrink. Not much of a problem with plywood




looks like plywood to me ?


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## chad

FrankstonCarAudio said:


> Looking fantastic, A$$hole...


Call me immature but I still find that funny as hell :blush:


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## FrankstonCarAudio

chad said:


> Call me immature but I still find that funny as hell :blush:


You made Coke come out my nose from laughing, when I read that... 

It is funny, now that I look at it! 

Thanks Chad!

Mark


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## Oliver

Thanx Chad, my keyboard is wiped off now, [my nose still burns though ]

60ndown, how many people you know who drill mounting holes in their subs, Pete is leaving nothing to chance. [In the pics you can see where he wanted more support for the sub with multiple wellnuts


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## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Thanx Chad, my keyboard is wiped off now, [my nose still burns though ]
> 
> 60ndown, how many people you know who drill mounting holes in their subs, Pete is leaving nothing to chance. [In the pics you can see where he wanted more support for the sub with multiple wellnuts


petes magic wellnuts are made of stain?


also, you and pete have left EVERYTHING to chance by completely changing the original design.


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## chad

60ndown said:


> also, you and pete have left EVERYTHING to chance by completely changing the original design.


I gotta go with himz on that one, I would be doing no drilling on such a driver, if the maker felt thare was not enough mounting strength then it would have more holes.


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## 60ndown

chad said:


> I gotta go with himz on that one, I would be doing no drilling on such a driver, if the maker felt thare was not enough mounting strength then it would have more holes.


no suzie, i dont think the performance of the driver will change because of a couple extra holes, 

the design of the enclosure 'has' been changed significantly tho.

and as anyone who knows anything about horns knows, 

"you just cant do that"


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## 60ndown

chad said:


> I gotta go with himz on that one, I would be doing no drilling on such a driver, if the maker felt thare was not enough mounting strength then it would have more holes.


no suzie, i dont think the performance of the driver will change because of a couple extra holes, 

the design of the enclosure 'has' been changed significantly tho.

and as anyone who knows anything about horns knows, 

"you just cant do that"


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## 60ndown

see^ even the computer thinks its worth saying twice


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## chad

60ndown said:


> see^ even the computer thinks its worth saying twice


Haha nice. I thnk it's already been covered that I agree on not changing the horn design, and then some, because it's not a horn, it's a horn MOTOR.


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## 60ndown

chad said:


> Haha nice. I thnk it's already been covered that I agree on not changing the horn design, and then some, because it's not a horn, it's a horn MOTOR.


much as i love you precilla, if i had to choose an audo advisor between you and mr deckert, id go with him,

FEATURES

This enclosure, designed by Steve Deckert in the early 1990's, has some unique features. It is actually two folded horns sharing the same mouth. By sharing the same mouth it was possible to reduce the cabinet size by approximately half what it otherwise would have needed to be. Each horn flare has a total length exceeding 5 feet, yet the cabinet size is only 24 x 32 inches!


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## chad

I'm not doubting the fact that's it's a horn, I'm doubting the fact that it's a SUB horn with such a short flare length  Sure it loads, but it's cutoff is too low and we are left with a glorified bandpass at the frequencies that it's claiming to load the driver and the horn mouth. Do well made bandpass enclosures work very well? You tell me? evedently you have liked both of Dekert's designs.

Chad


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## chad

chad said:


> I'm not doubting the fact that's it's a horn, I'm doubting the fact that it's a SUB horn with such a short flare length  Sure it loads, but it's cutoff is too low and we are left with a glorified bandpass at the frequencies that it's claiming to load the driver and the horn mouth. Do well made bandpass enclosures work very well? You tell me? evedently you have liked both of Dekert's designs.
> 
> Chad


Precilla, damn, I have to start coming up with some more names


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## 60ndown

chad said:


> I'm not doubting the fact that's it's a horn, I'm doubting the fact that it's a SUB horn with such a short flare length  Sure it loads, but it's cutoff is too low and we are left with a glorified bandpass at the frequencies that it's claiming to load the driver and the horn mouth. Do well made bandpass enclosures work very well? You tell me? evedently you have liked ALL of Dekert's designs.
> 
> Chad


you will never know until you build it, yvonne.

he has about 7 subwoofer designs (for different applications) and several speaker designs.

you really do need to spend some time reading his papers, the man is up to speed on things people here havent even heard of.

siobhan


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## chad

60ndown said:


> you will never know until you build it, yvonne.
> 
> he has about 7 subwoofer designs (for different applications) and several speaker designs.
> 
> you really do need to spend some time reading his papers, the man is up to speed on things people here havent even heard of.
> 
> siobhan


I've been to his place and met the guy lucille, he lives about 1.5 hours away (X-Wife's home town).

You have me thinking I need a housewrecker for my shop, I'd gladly take yours but I doubt shipping it would be pretty


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## 60ndown

chad said:


> I've been to his place and met the guy lucille, he lives about 1.5 hours away (X-Wife's home town).
> 
> You have me thinking I need a housewrecker for my shop, I'd gladly take yours but I doubt shipping it would be pretty


do me a favor (bernice) call him and schedule a 'demo' 1/2 hour listening session, take your very bestest music with you, and dont blow your ears on the drive there listening to death metal clipped to phuk.

and report back.

my $$ sais you will experience something you have never before experienced.

once you have visited the 'holy grail' you will know what is not 'holy grailish' about what you have.

id go myself but its a much longer trip for me,

your welcome to my hwk, shipping will be about $120 im guessing?

140 lbs from 95065 ?

sophie.

(you could 'tap' the x while your there)


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## chad

I ain't touchin that woman. I'll have some time this summer and I heard he was in a new place now, I'll have to make a drive.

Have you talked to him in person?


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## 60ndown

chad said:


> Have you talked to him in person?


15 years ago when i built my first wo l called him with a few qs, and ive been reading sections of his papers over the years since.

id love a couple hours in his demo room, 5 watts total, 120 db with holographic imaging and flat to 20hz.


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## Oliver

60ndown said:


> 15 years ago when i built my first wo l called him with a few qs, and ive been reading sections of his papers over the years since.
> 
> id love a couple hours in his demo room, 5 watts total, 120 db with holographic imaging and flat to 20hz.


That would be time well spent, he has sessions where he invites folks!

I think your right about modding it, planning on using it for a doghouse in the backyard 

I anxsiously await ObiWan, for instruction...


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## chad

He's fairly eccentric one-on-one, dunno about group speaking though.

Hey Latisha, ever though about building a set of full-range horns with the likes of a pair dem high efficiency drivers like you have in yer boom box? The kit on the back of the madisound catalog intrigued me for a knocked-down version, then the tri-trix thing here. I have a 30W/Ch tube amp begging for attention.


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## 60ndown

chad said:


> He's fairly eccentric one-on-one, dunno about group speaking though.
> 
> Hey Latisha, ever though about building a set of full-range horns with the likes of a pair dem high efficiency drivers like you have in yer boom box? The kit on the back of the madisound catalog intrigued me for a knocked-down version, then the tri-trix thing here. I have a 30W/Ch tube amp begging for attention.


latisha 

you mean like a 1/4 size imperial horn?

been there 'Fallopia'

http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/60ndown/?action=view&current=6.jpg

http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/60ndown/?action=view&current=DSC03683.jpg

http://www.lifeforms-unlimited.com/page7.htm


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## chad

What did you think of the first design you linked.... and the last link is certainly CRTL+D'd  (saved to favorites for you mac users)


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## 60ndown

chad said:


> What did you think of the first design you linked.... and the last link is certainly CRTL+D'd  (saved to favorites for you mac users)


first 2 links are the same box, a 1/4 sized imperial horn,

its a great read when you have some time

The story about a first test listen to one cabinet in mono. 

As I mentioned, we couldn't stand the anticipation and even though drivers have been ordered we just wanted to hear something come out this new horn. We dug around and each of us found a woofer. One was an old bass musical instrument speaker and the other was more along the lines of a PA driver. 

The idea was that we would play the radio through one cabinet while we continued to work on them. We thought we'd kind of get an idea how these cabinet alterations and improvements effect the bass. To drive them I simply unhooked a floor monitor that was in the room and replaced it with an Imperial. The amplifier behind it is a 400 watt Ross - the equivalent of a decent audiophile solid state amp. 

The source was a $70.00 Pioneer tuner with no antenna fed into the mixer behind my drum kit. I listen to this stupid tuner through the monitors all the time when I work out here and have never once stopped and said, "gee that sounds really good!". 

As soon as we turned it on, Paul and I both stopped for about a minute and stared at it. The sound I heard was so tight that I made the comment I thought maybe the two woofers were wired out of phase. We listened to it for a few minutes frankly not sure what to think. 

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1040842968

my 1/4 scale version was remarkable in that, apart from having very nice fidelity, it sounded like 2 of the best 10" sq subwoofers that ever exhisted was in there, but it was a pair of 6.5" full range drivers.

it now is at the landfill with many of my beloved boxes, 

my boombox will be with me forever, it is an audio device worth having, completely portable, sounds excellent, can get loud and runs for 'days' on a single charge.


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## Candisa

I don't understand a thing of the design of the box, but I can tell you it's pure ART! 

greetz,
Isabelle


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## Oliver

Thank You, Candisa !

I'll let Pete know


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## 60ndown

did pete die?


----------



## chad

Stain is drying...... After 46 layers it's a long wait.


----------



## Oliver

chad said:


> Stain is drying...... After 46 layers it's a long wait.


You're close, the sealer is drying .

I'll have some more pic's...

Rome was not built in a day


----------



## 60ndown

chad said:


> Stain is drying...... After 46 layers it's a long wait.


lmao


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> this 4000 watt mid-bass unit was not built in a day



like 6 weeks now ...8 weeks?...to build,

a box.


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> like 6 weeks now ...8 weeks?...to build,
> 
> a box.


You forgot the planning stages, so a little over 5 years 

The difference in this one and ones that take the time to plug in a sawzall and start cutting...

Little glue, some material, or maybe paint, etc..,


----------



## 60ndown

you talk about your mid-bass unit like its art *******,










its just a box











spend as much time and money as you like, its gonna live in a corner somewhere and gather dust (after you try everything you can to make it sound good, give up and use the ids in a correctly designed enclos........box).


----------



## Oliver

quote>spend as much time and money as you like, its gonna live in a corner somewhere and gather dust (after you try everything you can to make it sound good.

The difference between this one and the one you built is "everything has been done"  "Already" !

If I had known your intentions when you built yours I could have saved you some time and money


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> If I had known your intentions when you built yours I could have saved you some time and money


very unlikely, it only took a day and cost $240 (including drivers) to build mine

i believe all our intentions are the same when we build a _*subwoofer.*_

(which is what your wo32 was until you realised that all your incredible speaker building skillz neglected to account for the massive subs not fitting in the correct position and decided to make a mid-bass unit)


----------



## Oliver

It'll play cleanly from 2.3KHz - 15,000Hz 

How long did you use your's before you threw it away ?

Did you try it in your vehicle[ before you found out you couldn't horn load 20 foot long notes ? ]


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> It'll play cleanly from 2.3KHz - 15,000Hz
> 
> How long did you use your's before you threw it away ?
> 
> Did you try it in your vehicle[ before you found out you couldn't horn load 20 foot long notes ? ]


used it for about a year, then traded it for some compression drivers with horn flares for the pa speakers i built(deckerts pro 12m). i did try it in a trunk car once, but didnt play w x overs, ta or any of that stuff, steve d sais it wont work in a car, i believe him.


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> used it for about a year, then traded it for some compression drivers with horn flares for the pa speakers i built(deckerts pro 12m). i did try it in a trunk car once, but didnt play w x overs, ta or any of that stuff, steve d sais it wont work in a car, i believe him.


A friend, Mark, built a 1/3 sized "Wicked One" with MB Quarts, I never heard it [ his son took it right now!! }.

Those frequencies are short enough to horn load in a car !


----------



## Oliver

Pete took some more pics,[I don't have them  ].

Crown amp is over @ Petes'

Getting close now


----------



## Oliver

Here we go


----------



## Oliver




----------



## Oliver




----------



## Oliver




----------



## Oliver

This is the "Deckert" version


----------



## chad

The flare rate..... it gets choked back, right at the last "flare" of the mouth, sup wit dat?


----------



## chad

a$$hole said:


> This is the "Deckert" version


do you have a full top view of that?


----------



## Oliver

Do to size of drivers...[recessing]she is a touch different


----------



## Oliver




----------



## chad

Ahhh, see those half circles in the rear? That's altering the flare rate of each section before combining them.... I'm wondering if it was not an afterthought on steve's part? Nothng wrong with it at all, beats a complete re-design.


----------



## Oliver

chad said:


> The flare rate..... it gets choked back, right at the last "flare" of the mouth, sup wit dat?


Think metering device


----------



## 60ndown

chad said:


> Ahhh, see those half circles in the rear? That's altering the flare rate of each section before combining them.... I'm wondering if it was not an afterthought on steve's part? Nothng wrong with it at all, beats a complete re-design.


flat, flat is what it is, flat from 90-20 hz flat i tell you. i thought i knew what flat was till i built it

no peaks, no troughs,

flat 

flat is so cool.

you ever hears a sub that does 20 hz with exactly equal spl as 80hz?

it weird, and very nice.

$20 sais something rattles in the puzzle box.


----------



## Oliver

Pete said it all came together just beautiful.

Thanx for all your concern, lukeboa [I'm still waitin to see]

You've mentioned your concerns on the box, any thoughts on the amp, things I should look out for


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> 1 more thought,
> 
> if 'pete' isnt glueing this sub togehter, but kinda clamping it with amazing woodwork skillz, and its got 2 x id max and 1000 wrms, im gonna bet apples fr oranges it buzzez and rattles like a mofo. regardles of how tight the joints are, any gaps at all and air is going to find its way thru.


Hopefully the air will take the path of least resistance, from the speaker all the way out the opening of the mouth 

You never know though


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Pete said it all came together just beautiful.
> 
> Thanx for all your concern, lukeboa [I'm still waitin to see]
> 
> You've mentioned your concerns on the box, any thoughts on the amp, things I should look out for


if chad sais its a good amp i believe its a good amp. but its a pro amp, if your building the wo32 modded puzzle box to play cannon shot, or some weird 12 hz pipe organ music, 

'does the pro amp have an internal ssf'?


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Hopefully the air will take the path of least resistance, from the speaker all the way out the opening of the mouth
> 
> You never know though


1000rms, and that tiny taper = some serious pressure, pressure can cause problems 

(as you already found out when "the lid blew at 80 cycles")


ive had a 'removed screw' hole sound like loud tapping in a previous subwoofer box.thats a spiral hole about 1mm in diameter and 3/4" long, if pete has tighter joints than 1 mm throughout all those joints,

ill eat his shorts.


----------



## cheesehead

Hey Hic,

Tell Pete it's looking nice!

When is the completion date?


----------



## Oliver

cheesehead said:


> Hey Hic,
> 
> Tell Pete it's looking nice!
> 
> When is the completion date?


Not sure on date of completion 

What do you want as far as like Ranch dressing or Ketchup, maybe some syrup to go with those shorts ?


----------



## Oliver

Them thar are tight !



a$$hole said:


>


Gasketed and sealed good enough for plan A !


----------



## eargasmicaudio

The box is a work of art. It's not going to sound any better than correctly built sub enclosure with the same FS response. All though the journey can be much more rewarding.


----------



## Oliver

eargasmicaudio said:


> The box is a work of art. It's not going to sound any better than correctly built sub enclosure with the same FS response. All though the journey can be much more rewarding.


Totally rewarding 

I still remember the trip through "Deckert's" web site[ down into the basement ].

Awesome, utterly fantastic time !

The "Wicked One" was not compelling enough, the "W.O. 32" struck my fancy.

5 years later...


----------



## chad

60ndown said:


> 'does the pro amp have an internal ssf'?


I do not believe so, just subsonic enough to prevent it from making DC, maybe a 5 cycle or lower cutout, need to put one on the bench, Pretty much what guzinta... cumzata, much larger. Kickass little amps



60ndown said:


> 1000rms, and that tiny taper = some serious pressure, pressure can cause problems


Very true, that's how the "acoustic lever" principle of a horn works, small surface area high pressure to big surface area and low pressure.

There is a ****-ton of pressure at the driver and beginning stages of the horn, proper drivers must be chosen.


----------



## Oliver

chad said:


> I do not believe so, just subsonic enough to prevent it from making DC, maybe a 5 cycle or lower cutout, need to put one on the bench, Pretty much what guzinta... cumzata, much larger. Kickass little amps
> 
> 
> 
> Very true, that's how the "acoustic lever" principle of a horn works, small surface area high pressure to big surface area and low pressure.
> 
> There is a ****-ton of pressure at the driver and beginning stages of the horn, proper drivers must be chosen.


Proper drivers have been chosen


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Proper drivers have been chosen


hactually, 

steve makes it very clear (if you read the design papers) the drivers used must have no more than 4 or 5 mm of x max.

looks like the id max has,

Ultra Long Excursion: Over 2" Linear.

if you wanted a ferrari, would you modify it? im guessing not, if you wanted a wo32, you should have built it the way it was designed, of course this puzzle box is going to make some noise, but will it 

"bring musical truth to bass in a way all audiophiles will appreciate"

i doubt it,

its going to be an expensive lesson for you *******, and your not done yet, your going to have to play with it and maybe spend more time and money on it when realise it doesnt do what you wanted,

sound like a wo32 only louder.


----------



## Oliver

Luke, I've bungee jumped from 110 feet 

Everybody lives their life at a different level, straight over the edge works for me 

"To each his Own"


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Luke, I've bungee jumped from 110 feet
> 
> Everybody lives their life at a different level, straight over the edge works for me
> 
> "To each his Own"


*******,

ive caught multiple waves that were so fast and the 'drop' so sketchy, the only way to describe the sensation is to say its like opening the throttle on a 200 hp motorcycle in 2nd and never backing off.

at night  

with great whites swimming about


----------



## eargasmicaudio

Some men like to climb mountains and some take the heli-chopter.


----------



## 60ndown

eargasmicaudio said:


> Some men like to climb mountains and some take the heli-chopter.


some mountains have to be climbed.
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/eng99/eng99527.htm


----------



## 60ndown

sweet mary,

is pete staining the amp internals?


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> *******,
> 
> ive caught multiple waves that were so fast and the 'drop' so sketchy, the only way to describe the sensation is to say its like opening the throttle on a 200 hp motorcycle in 2nd and never backing off.
> 
> at night
> 
> with great whites swimming about


Have you ever surfed on a "Harbor wave"?

Chad called it right...horn motor, in this instance [a starting point ]!

Once the horn section is added it will be complete  !


----------



## Oliver

This was not designed as the end all and be all, just a solid platform


----------



## chad

a$$hole said:


> Have you ever surfed on a "Harbor wave"?
> 
> Chad called it right...horn motor, in this instance [a starting point ]!
> 
> Once the horn section is added it will be complete  !


Remember that constriction I was talking about? That will be a second pressure point for a full horn and will increase distortion dramatically..... I'd look at that flare rate and especially where the flares merge, for a short horn (bandpass) it will likely work but after adding a full loading it may get goofy.

you can always add material to the area before the merge to even out the area increase, and evidently it will come apart easy


----------



## Oliver

Chad, it is easy to remove that piece 

But it is hard to move a large amount of air with an anemic sub[or two]


----------



## chad

a$$hole said:


> Chad, it is easy to remove that piece
> 
> But it is hard to move a large amount of air with an anemic sub[or two]


A horn wants a motor (low X Max or not) that can control the excursion of the cone VERY well. This is why you see a bunch on "low Xmax" drivers in horns. The guys working on th LAB horn had eminence do a woofer for that, and it's a monster, Eminence also makes a 10" that could be suitable for a horn. The thing that concerns me with the IDmax is that it may not have the control over the extreme ends, especially with the forces that will be imparted on the cone.


----------



## Oliver

We'll see ! The force we speak of will work fine in this instance !

It will throb out some lows with very few watts, trust me


----------



## Oliver

The version 60ndown built was , what it was [not for everyone, though ]


----------



## chad

a$$hole said:


> The version 60ndown built was , what it was [not for everyone, though ]


But te question is... how did you take a bandpass box (short flare horn played below loading) and make it bettar? A proper horn motor is a proper motor......


----------



## Oliver

chad said:


> But te question is... how did you take a bandpass box (short flare horn played below loading) and make it bettar? A proper horn motor is a proper motor......


Think, not proper ! This isn't the girl to take home to meet your mother 

Everyone can cook a steak, but not everyone hears "How did you do that!"

MrMarv makes some tri-trip worth a trip to California  !


----------



## Oliver

Think hotrodding, anything can get a boost in performance


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Think hotrodding, anything can get a boost in performance


not really, 

just adding horse power is not always the best solution, and wont always realise a "boost in performance" if you want to get down the 1/4 mile fast, weight reduction, gearing, getting the power to the wheels/road surface, steering a straight line are all things steve did when he designed the wo32.

you have built a 2000 horse power tractor (with no bolts) 

im betting it performs equally well.

and its taking for ****ing ever


----------



## drake78

Logic tells me +/-2"tolearance/xmax is neglible. Any driver can be driven out of linearity. These variables will effect the nitty gritty fine tunning. The driver is capable. I say if the box is done right. It should work like it should.


----------



## Oliver

Other than excessive pressure causing radial and concentric modes of breakup on the cone, I think it will be fine 

The piece causing Chad concern can be removed if i choose to add additional flair onto the end of the existing design to horn load the lower frequencies[ at that time the extra motor strength and amplifier power will help it to couple the drivers to more static pressure generated by the extra resistance].

If I've made a mistake, trust me, it won't be the first time !

I've always erred on the overkill side of things, it's my nature. Most underpower their system and post "Weird" as their drivers die a horrible death with excessively powerful clipped waves burning up whatever they are connected to.

So yeah too much motor over abundance of power....sue me !!


----------



## drake78

It's never too late to go back to a regular enclosure either.


----------



## 60ndown

drake78 said:


> It's never too late to go back to a regular wo32 either.


he cant, drivers are too deep. which is the only reason this excellent design was modded.


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Other than excessive pressure causing radial and concentric modes of breakup on the cone, I think it will be fine
> 
> The piece causing Chad concern can be removed if i choose to add additional flair onto the end of the existing design to horn load the lower frequencies[ at that time the extra motor strength and amplifier power will help it to couple the drivers to more static pressure generated by the extra resistance].
> 
> If I've made a mistake, trust me, it won't be the first time !
> 
> I've always erred on the overkill side of things, it's my nature. Most underpower their system and post "Weird" as their drivers die a horrible death with excessively powerful clipped waves burning up whatever they are connected to.
> 
> So yeah too much motor over abundance of power....sue me !!


The magic predominately lies in the first watt. By magic I mean inner detail and most of the dynamics. For example, a pair of 96dB speakers playing with one watt of power against the average noise floor in your listening room (55dB) is 40 dB of dynamic range. (96 – 55 = 41 dB) Adding a second watt increases the dynamic range by only 3 dB. For every additional 3 dB you need to double your power. This should clearly illustrate that there is over 10 times the dynamic range in the first watt as there is in the second.


----------



## drake78

60ndown said:


> The magic predominately lies in the first watt. By magic I mean inner detail and most of the dynamics. For example, a pair of 96dB speakers playing with one watt of power against the average noise floor in your listening room (55dB) is 40 dB of dynamic range. (96 – 55 = 41 dB) Adding a second watt increases the dynamic range by only 3 dB. For every additional 3 dB you need to double your power. This should clearly illustrate that there is over 10 times the dynamic range in the first watt as there is in the second.


Yeah, will this kind of complexity. I would agree that the unit should be built closely as possible to specs. Since there is no original to compare it too either. That way you can have a genuine taste of what the original is all about.


----------



## Oliver

Some ideas are not for everyone...










Being what & who I am, my road is less crowded...


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Some ideas are not for everyone...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being what & who I am, my road is less crowded...


"a fool and his money" ?


----------



## 60ndown

looks to me like your considering a brutally expensive c.m. driver next?


----------



## Oliver

God only knows


----------



## chad

While sub shopping did you consider this one?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-570


----------



## Oliver

Me, No !

I'm not sure what 60ndown used.


----------



## chad

a$$hole said:


> Me, No !
> 
> I'm not sure what 60ndown used.


Those are the ones used in the LAB Sub and that thing kicks ass, the driver was specifically designed to be used in a horn loaded config.


----------



## Oliver

Yeah, looks like it would work well.

Might be something 60ndown is interested in using


----------



## 60ndown

i used this in my wo32

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-110
funny enough i found this while looking for it

http://www.mfk-projects.com/dipole_sub-woofer_dayton_series_ii.htm


shud keep pete busy till xmas trying to get some c.m. 15s in there with no nails


----------



## 60ndown

chad said:


> While sub shopping did you consider this one?
> 
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-570


ive been looking at those for a couple years and wondering?

"a pair of these 12" drivers can produce bass output comparable to 6 or 8 conventional 18" woofers"

go on *******, get pete to build another box for 10 of these.

should be completely finished by 2100.


----------



## Oliver

60ndown,

I will continue to steer my ship through uncharted waters, thank you just the same.

I'm sure your ideas and how to do it works for you and that is what counts


----------



## chad

60ndown said:


> ive been looking at those for a couple years and wondering?
> 
> "a pair of these 12" drivers can produce bass output comparable to 6 or 8 conventional 18" woofers"
> 
> go on *******, get pete to build another box for 10 of these.
> 
> should be completely finished by 2100.


oops, I forgot the WO32 wanted 10's, eminence makes a 10" driver with similar specs and voicing too.

Have you looked into the LabHorn Luke? It's buildable


----------



## 60ndown

chad said:


> oops, I forgot the WO32 wanted 10's, eminence makes a 10" driver with similar specs and voicing too.
> 
> Have you looked into the LabHorn Luke? It's buildable


now im married, im definately more inclined to build boxes with w.a.f.

my diyma 12 tube h.t sub works very well.

my van is my domain tho and i only need to turn it down when she rides with me (not often, she likes clean vehicles)  

will the labhorn work in a van?


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> 60ndown,
> 
> I will continue to steer my ship through uncharted waters, thank you just the same.
> 
> I'm sure your ideas and how to do it works for you and that is what counts


uncharted waters?

people have been building all kinds of speakers for decades, 

what works and what doesn't is well documented.

build to plans = guaranteed results


----------



## 60ndown

http://web1.prosoundweb.com/lsp/LAB-3DC.gif

http://web1.prosoundweb.com/lsp/horn_asm_1.pdf

http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp/

not today.

but the seed has been planted


----------



## Oliver

I wish i had called you first so i wouldn't have to suffer

Please tell me what sounds good ...


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Please tell me what sounds good ...


FLAT 


from 90-20 hz is an awesome place to start building a quality system.

built to spec wo32 does it very well.


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> I wish i had called you first so i wouldn't have to suffer


no amount of telephone conversation will make pete any faster.

first post in this thread was

04-06-2008

seriously, i hope hes building it for an agreed price, if its hourly you coulda just got a couple of these,


http://www.musiciansbuy.com/MACKIE_SW1801_SUB_PWRD_W_FREE.html


----------



## Oliver

doh, I should have called you first [no agreement, just build this ! ] same as always !


----------



## drake78

Every adventure can give you better clarity for the next.


----------



## Oliver

I think it will be just fine, seriously !

apparently , 60ndown was going off plans and feels that it can only work the way it was planned.

I've been to "Decware" site and saw no need to get plans.

My bookshelfs didn't come with plans, I am very happy with their sound.

Pete and myself just need an idea to get us going, the rest is all ad-lib.


----------



## drake78

The kitty is showing it's teeth and claws.


----------



## Oliver

I think that 60ndown just has a different way of doing things 

I've been privvy to his boombox, it's not my style

If it's the way you roll, more power to you.


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> FLAT
> 
> 
> from 90-20 hz is an awesome place to start building a quality system.
> 
> built to spec wo32 does it very well.


we're up 10 hz on the high side, it must have been all that, if you got rid of it

Add a little to the low side too![ flat from 0 to 30,000 hz ].


----------



## Oliver

It hasn't changed anything as far as the box.


----------



## Oliver

Pete has put some power to it and I'll give it a listen here shortly.


----------



## 60ndown

60hz and down,

subwoofers have been my passion for decades

i built my first subwoofer 25 years ago, ive built many, many many.

tho wo32 was EASILY the best.

it did everything right, and nothing wrong.

cant beat that with a stick.

let it go eventually because i wanted to build something else, and the guy i gave it to gave me things i wanted to build with, and i can always build another exactly the same for $250 (that includes drivers)



if i kept everything i built over the years, id be living in an mdf palace.


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Pete has put some power to it and I'll give it a listen here shortly.


since when was 5 hours shortly?

problems ??


----------



## Oliver




----------



## Oliver

Sheffields Drum Disc, and some other high quality CD's sounded excellent through the subs and my bookshelfs

Pete still has some more to go [outer shell ], I'm happy


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Sheffields Drum Disc, and some other high quality CD's sounded excellent through the subs and my bookshelfs


there's no separation between the front and rear wave.

you coulda just had pete build you (2) 14"x14" boards if you like the way 'that' 
sounds.

'they' might be finished by now.


----------



## chad

This just keeps gettin funnier and funnier.......


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> there's no separation between the front and rear wave.
> 
> you coulda just had pete build you (2) 14"x14" boards if you like the way 'that'
> sounds.
> 
> 'they' might be finished by now.


It's all I could afford


----------



## Oliver

chad said:


> This just keeps gettin funnier and funnier.......


Pete's hurrying 

He is making the tongue and groove right at this point.


----------



## chad

a$$hole said:


> Pete's hurrying
> 
> He is making the tongue and groove right at this point.


Oh, it's not that, it's watching someone getting their balls busted other than me


----------



## Oliver

chad said:


> Oh, it's not that, it's watching someone getting their balls busted other than me


Glad to be of service 

Allman Brothers = Whipping Post http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv3RWqFlvJs


----------



## Oliver

Actually you might be surprised to know that I noticed no cancellation


----------



## Oliver

Hey Chad,

Pete hooked up the Crown by himself


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Hey Chad,
> 
> Pete hooked up the Crown by himself


prolly out of phase, which is why it sounded good.


----------



## chad

a$$hole said:


> Hey Chad,
> 
> Pete hooked up the Crown by himself


****, send him a cookie, he can still read the instructions on the back


----------



## Oliver

Shirley, makes cookies for drey & kyle


----------



## Oliver

I hope i did this right {60nd0wn ,school me}

Let's see subwoofer , oh ****, I mean midbass , midrange , tweeter....Oh f__k it, it's too damn hard.

I think this one plays voices and ****..










The little one at the top is a ?????{anyhow}it plays screechey **** now that i have it dialed in [blackboard...nails...screech!]










Any who, got me some speakers that will make noise if Pete and myself can figure out what the hell these dials are for on the amplifier whatcha ma bobs

Knit one, pearl two [much easier] anyone need some socks


----------



## Oliver

Those bookshelfs just keep getting better, Pete commented they sound better now[I noticed it too, before he commented].

Now, if two tens can add a little low end  [I'll be a very happy camper ].

Ever seen a horse trot  ?


----------



## 60ndown

m+k closed didnt they? ive seen a lot of their stuff for sale over the net.


----------



## Oliver

Yes, but someone else is doing their warranty work, I believe


----------



## GlasSman

60ndown said:


> http://web1.prosoundweb.com/lsp/LAB-3DC.gif
> 
> http://web1.prosoundweb.com/lsp/horn_asm_1.pdf
> 
> http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp/
> 
> not today.
> 
> but the seed has been planted


Nice link....thanks.


----------



## MrDave

I built one of these a long time ago, and wanted to build another recently. I don't think I will ever have the patience to do so. Loud, from what I remember.


----------



## Oliver

MrDave said:


> I built one of these a long time ago, and wanted to build another recently. I don't think I will ever have the patience to do so. Loud, from what I remember.


I have been wanting to do this for years, but trying to understand the concepts has taken awhile, I find that patience is just waiting for something to materialize.


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> I have been wanting to do this for years, but trying to understand the concepts has taken awhile, I find that patience is just waiting for something to materialize.


but then you realise the subs are too deep and have to re-arrange everything


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> but then you realise the subs are too deep and have to re-arrange everything


I had the subs for a reason, the design process is more complex than following plans to achieve what somebody else has determined to sound good.

You of course assume you know what prompted this or that.

My bookshelf speakers are a compilation of components that produce a sound I enjoy.

I designed them with that goal in mind[ basically, hamburger helper this ain't].

The mids were selected by me, the tweeters were used in different speakers but worked for what I wanted, the crossovers were designed for a different set of components[ I adapted them to my needs{they had 90% of what I needed].


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> I had the subs for a reason, the design process is more complex than following plans to achieve what somebody else has determined to sound good.
> 
> You of course assume you know what prompted this or that.
> 
> My bookshelf speakers are a compilation of components that produce a sound I enjoy.
> 
> I designed them with that goal in mind[ basically, hamburger helper this ain't].
> 
> The mids were selected by me, the tweeters were used in different speakers but worked for what I wanted, the crossovers were designed for a different set of components[ I adapted them to my needs{they had 90% of what I needed].


i read somewhere in 1 of your posts that you (and pete) realised the subs were too deep to fit at the small end of the taper (evident in the pics) so you used your incredible math/designing skills to move then along the box until there was enough depth and then they could squeeze in 

i think anyone that knows anything about sound knows what sounds good, its not my 'determination' if its victor playing a solo, it has to sound exactly like it did when he played it, ANYTHING ELSE IS WRONG.

im sure if we offered you a porsche you wouldnt put spinners on it 

"because thats the ride you enjoy"

youd accept that the performance is 'right' the way it is.

the wo32 is 'right' the way it was designed.

oh well, enjoy your foray into the void, youve been before so have i, some need to make that trip more than once.... i have


----------



## Oliver

Anything can be made better  [whether you wan't to try or not is your call ].

A 454 in a spoiler gt with a jet is a nice combination, after the addition of a cam some solid lifters and an edelbrock high rise intake a larger four barrel ,Holley,it was pretty intense to waterski behind, as the jets were now hitting me !!  [with a 75 foot ski rope ].

To each their own 

Yes there were some mods done to deal with the speakers sheer physical size.

There may still need to be some minor adjustments made as I go.

Could i have drawn out and enclosure with everything accounted for before hand, ask Marv !
Or look for yourself...


----------



## Oliver

Yeah, the subs are just a tad recessed [lot of excursion ]!



a$$hole said:


>


----------



## 60ndown

wow, he even stained the support for the magnet,(that should improve sonics, lmaorolflmyoa) 

i wonder how much he'd charge me to do that?


----------



## Oliver

This was a very long project for him, No Plans, so he made it up as he went !

We had the picture of 1/2 of a mirror image box .



a$$hole said:


>


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> This was a very long project for him, No Plans, so he made it up as he went !
> 
> We had the picture of 1/2 of a mirror image box .


???

full size plans are $40 from decware.


----------



## Oliver

a$$hole said:


> This is the "Deckert" version


Here's your $40.00 plans 

One half of a mirror image box, the drivers are anemic looking, other than that i always wanted to build one of the wo32's[ the wo didn't quite do it ].


----------



## Oliver

$400.00 for one seems like a good deal folks ! Pm 60ndown for one!!

My speakers were just a touch more than he can build the whole thing for


----------



## 60ndown

the thing about paying $40 for the full size plans is that all the measurements will be exact, 

if your telling me that you spent all this time and money and 'guessed' the sizes of things from looking at a photograph rather than spend the $40 and be certain,

after all the comments you have made about,

"you only get what you pay for"

then i dont know what to say except your wo32 puzzle box may sound like it cost less than $40?


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> $400.00 for one seems like a good deal folks ! Pm 60ndown for one!!
> 
> My speakers were just a touch more than he can build the whole thing for


yep, im happy to build anyone a wo32 with dayton series 2 drivers to speck for $400+ shipping.

and drivers purchased for 'full retail' dont sound or perform any differently to the same driver purchased used


----------



## Oliver

Yeah, Pete and I guessed the wo32 was 32 inches










Luke, you're killin me !!!


----------



## 60ndown

32 x ?

theres a few other measurements in there im reasonably certain are also very important.

maybe im wrong, maybe ts paramiters and all the other technical stuff involved in excellent audio is pure b.s? 

and we can just copy pictures of stuff.


----------



## Oliver

When i was in grade school I enjoyed painting by numbers.

In my college course I offered to put the numbers on the nude models...

Training wheels are nice on bicycles too,[depending on your age].

I wonder what kind of competetion vehicle Matt R would have if he was still

sure the factory locations are the only place to put the speakers

How exactly have you been building these speakers for the last 25 years?

$40.00 for a set of plans would get pretty expensive after awhile.


----------



## 60ndown

your intention was to place the drivers at the beginning of the flare (just like in the photograph you're trying to copy), then you realized they wouldn't fit because they're too big, and just randomly moved em along till they did !

how is that 'improving' on the design with incredible 'speaker designing' skillz?

when your car needs a brake job, do you also randomly select the biggest pads at the car parts store and 'make em fit'


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> 32 x ?
> 
> theres a few other measurements in there im reasonably certain are also very important.
> 
> maybe im wrong, maybe ts paramiters and all the other technical stuff involved in excellent audio is pure b.s?
> 
> and we can just copy pictures of stuff.


32 x 36

Luke keep asking, eventually someone will take the time to make a pop-up book for it

the picture gave you all you needed  [ or maybe not  ].


----------



## Oliver

When i was in H.S. my next door neighbor dropped a Lincoln motor into a Ford station wagon, then he added power steering 

It leaves an imprint on you when you see someone do something that can't be done .

Where there's a will there's a way 

1] would i have made the box bigger ?
2] will it sound good ?
3] did it need well-nuts ?
4] would a smaller plate amp work ?
5] did it need to be stained ?
6] This is all subjective, in the end it is what it is "That's How I Roll"


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> 32 x 36


----------



## 60ndown

im sure your right, exact horn geometry is so overrated.

anyone can throw speakers in a horn shaped type box and achieve excellent results.


----------



## Oliver

Like this one


----------



## Oliver

One note wonder~Tub Thump


----------



## Oliver

He is getting close to being done now !

I can't wait, to hear the air hissing out under the unglued boards...thump, fart..hiss, thump, belch, hisss


----------



## Oliver

I think we'll play "Jacintha"

Features:
• XRCD 24bit Super Analog
• K2 Technology

Selections:
1. Willow Weep For Me 
2. The Thrill Is Gone 
3. Something Cool 
4. Don't Smoke in Bed 
5. Light My Fire 
6. I'm In The Mood For Love 
7. God Bless The Child 
8. Round Midnight 
9. I'll Never Smile Again 
10. Gone With The Wind 
11. Cry Me A River


----------



## Oliver

Gonna play this one too 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4HrGW1MeGo&NR=1

Some "Sheffield Drum Tracks",also


----------



## 60ndown

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?PID=1069499&style=music&frm=frooglemusic


----------



## 60ndown

does pete say another coat of stain will improve things?

perhaps another brace?

more weather strip?

a horn extension (random flare of course as real horn geometry is overated) and well stained.?

new reference cds? (with specially eq'd bass, get rid of that huge bump @ 64hz and the trough @ 32)?

special ear piece horn thing insert (like yer grandad wore)?

remodel the listening room into a horn type shape to load frequencies below 55hz?

burn it?

contact luke and spend the $400 so you can have some real bass with those 'bookshelfs'?

pm chad for help and ideas?

e mail steve deckert and ask him what he thinks the problem might be? ( i can answer that)

announce that bass is overrated and you only want to listen down to 70 hz from now on as its the 'new thing' for audiophiles?

try a pair of w7s in there?(and a bigger amp)

drink some whiskey and pray it sounds better?

announce that your leaving diyma as were all beneath you?

get your 'abacus' out and re-design it?

spend $40 and buy the plans?

post up your unusual response graph and ask if anyone knows why it looks like the ocean with a 'low pressure' offshore.(perfect surf conditions, new wave every 14 seconds)

call the bank manager and ask if he can refund the money?

you asked for it by 'not' posting any more pics of petes incredible work in the last 5 days


----------



## 60ndown

im sure it sounds 'incredible'.


----------



## 60ndown

will pete be delivering it as your xmas present?


----------



## 60ndown

if pete dies before its finished will he be buried in it?


----------



## Oliver

Too much humidity for woodworking.

He listened to it with the subs sealed he was impressed 

He still has the back, top and panels to finish.


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Too much humidity for woodworking.


im gona call the BOAT store and tell em what pete said, should give em a laugh, 






did me


----------



## chad

60ndown said:


> im gona call the BOAT store and tell em what pete said, should give em a laugh,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did me


When you get varnish on that thick it takes FOREVER to dry


----------



## Oliver

Were still debating on what kind of glue to fix our mistake 

Hey anyone know where I can get a couple of stamped steel frame ten inchers 

Something like the deckert's


----------



## cheesehead

a$$hole said:


> Too much humidity for woodworking.
> 
> He listened to it with the subs sealed he was impressed
> 
> He still has the back, top and panels to finish.


OK the humidity has been down the last couple of days. We need some updates!


----------



## 60ndown

buzz rattle fart slap.

MID,MID,MID,MID.

wheres da low lows???????????


----------



## chad

60ndown said:


> buzz rattle fart slap.
> 
> MID,MID,MID,MID.
> 
> wheres da low lows???????????


You mean... a huge hump from 125-220 is not lows?


----------



## 60ndown

chad said:


> You mean... a huge hump from 125-220 is not lows?


its going to be 2010 before pete finishes staining the inside of the new 'required' extended horn flare


----------



## cheesehead

cheesehead said:


> OK the humidity has been down the last couple of days. We need some updates!


Where's the update


----------



## Oliver

Nothing but work lately 

When I get some free time


----------



## cheesehead

a$$hole said:


> Nothing but work lately
> 
> When I get some free time


All work and no play makes a$$hole 

Take a break and go visit Pete


----------



## 60ndown

so this was a failed experiment?


----------



## 60ndown

a very expensive failed experiment


----------



## 60ndown

cmon *******, you post all over this site, how bout an update on teh

'puzzle box midrange spl unit' ?


----------



## thehatedguy

I have 5/16th 80 hertz midbass horns that are bigger than those "bass horns." The smaller the speaker, the longer the horn needs to be...and I used 15s for midbass. Dekert must be using some Klipsh math if he considers those things bass horns. They have to be 1/32nd 150 hertz horns if you designed them in Hornrsp.


----------



## 60ndown

thehatedguy said:


> I have 5/16th 80 hertz midbass horns that are bigger than those "bass horns." The smaller the speaker, the longer the horn needs to be...and I used 15s for midbass. Dekert must be using some Klipsh math if he considers those things bass horns. They have to be 1/32nd 150 hertz horns if you designed them in Hornrsp.


i got no idea about the physics, but i did build one to speck, and it was amazing as a sub.?


----------



## thehatedguy

I've seen Dr. Edgar's sub horn with the 18s...and it is as large as a fridge, yet it still needs EQing to reach 30 hertz.

I would be willing to bet that these boxes model pretty well as bandpasses...and not horns.


----------



## chad

thehatedguy said:


> I've seen Dr. Edgar's sub horn with the 18s...and it is as large as a fridge, yet it still needs EQing to reach 30 hertz.
> 
> I would be willing to bet that these boxes model pretty well as bandpasses...and not horns.


Yep.. we've been over that one too


----------



## thehatedguy

I kind of just skipped through the thread...lol.

I figured you would have already pointed that out.


----------



## chad

thehatedguy said:


> I kind of just skipped through the thread...lol.
> 
> I figured you would have already pointed that out.


I thought you were in on it too :blush:


----------



## thehatedguy

Urh...mmm...maybe?:blush:


----------



## 60ndown

FEATURES

This enclosure, designed by Steve Deckert in the early 1990's, has some unique features. It is actually two folded horns sharing the same mouth. By sharing the same mouth it was possible to reduce the cabinet size by approximately half what it otherwise would have needed to be. Each horn flare has a total length exceeding 5 feet, yet the cabinet size is only 24 x 32 inches!


An obvious difference between the WO32 flare design and a more conventional horn is that the taper shrinks to a point. Sometimes called a tapered pipe. The woofer is loaded on the sidewall of the taper firing directly into the adjacent surface less than 1 inch away. This technique over-dampens the woofer resulting in a flatter impedance curve, excellent power handling, and better linearity within its operating range. The typical air space between the cone and throat has been reduced dramatically. This creates a direct linear relationship between the air in the horn flare and the woofer driving it.

www.decware.com


----------



## 60ndown

but ******* decided it would werk 'even better' if the drivers were mounted half way along the taper 

seems he was wrong.


----------



## backwoods

I must say, it would not take much to turn that guy into a wicked dipole with a very low fequal and get some great sound/performance out of it.

Won't be an spl killer like a horn, but would have incredible clarity and realism. Correctly done dipole is the only sub design I have found to like better then horns when volume isn't a concern..


But between a$$hole and 60ndown here, this thread gives me a headache. I hereby nominate it for the "worst grammar ever used in a multi-page thread" award!


----------



## 60ndown

i had an idea, 

maybe a couple more coats of stain will reveal the incredible bass?


----------



## 60ndown

i have a solution for you R ******* <--(chad will like that) 

place the drivers on the *outside *of the puzzle box in the right location in the 'flare' (the very beginning) and build boxes around them.that way the horn/throat/bandpass will behave as steve designed it.

sure youll have a weird looking wo32, but if all else works, it will have the ability to make small earthquakes.


----------



## chad

60ndown said:


> i have a solution for you R ******* <--(chad will like that)
> 
> place the drivers on the *outside *of the puzzle box in the right location in the 'flare' (the very beginning) and build boxes around them.that way the horn/throat/bandpass will behave as steve designed it.
> 
> sure youll have a weird looking wo32, but if all else works, it will have the ability to make small earthquakes.


<------- starts thinking about a tapped horn


----------



## thehatedguy

<------ had a 30 hertz tapped horn in his apartment before he and his girl split.


----------



## chad

thehatedguy said:


> <------ had a 30 hertz tapped horn in his apartment before he and his girl split.


^^^^^^^ Chick didn't take your horn did she?


----------



## thehatedguy

Went to the landfill.

But it was easy to build if I ever wanted to build another. Damn nice bass and a ton of output.


----------



## 60ndown

thehatedguy said:


> Went to the landfill.
> 
> But it was easy to build if I ever wanted to build another. Damn nice bass and a ton of output.


links to plans or it didnt happen,


and she was a he


----------



## thehatedguy

www.cowanaudio.com/

And there is a HUGE thread in the subwoofer section of DIYAudio about tapped horn building.


----------



## Oliver

chad said:


> ^^^^^^^ Chick didn't take your horn did she?


He scraped her horn, until she left


----------



## 60ndown

27 pages and months ?

whats going on *******?

does it sound like crap?

is it not dry yet?


come on mr master speaker builder

fess up.


----------



## slvrtsunami

ooohhh, subscribed just to see how it really ends. It takes quite a while to go through 27 pages. )


----------



## thylantyr

Handcrafted products take forever to build, based on the pics posted, the 
craftsmanship far exceeds what is needed to make a functional product. If this 
was a business and you were building the subwoofer, it would be a weekend project 
and covered with carpet as the typical customer would only care about the boom
and not the bling. /heh


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> 27 pages and months ?
> 
> whats going on *******?
> 
> does it sound like crap?
> 
> is it not dry yet?
> 
> 
> come on mr master speaker builder
> 
> fess up.


I had to start with tires to get the fire hot enough, it looked like wood burning until the aluminum got hot and then there were different colors and smells.

Guess I'll order some plans next time.


----------



## cheesehead

a$$hole said:


> I had to start with tires to get the fire hot enough, it looked like wood burning until the aluminum got hot and then there were different colors and smells.
> 
> Guess I'll order some plans next time.


Seriously where's the updates? No news?


----------



## Oliver

Pete has been building cabinets and drawers for a customer 

I'll get some more photos, question is when :blush:


----------



## cheesehead

Cool 

You had me a little worried. There haven't been any recent updates and the natives were getting restless!


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> Pete has been building cabinets and drawers for a customer


2015 then


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> 2015 then


2009 is a possibility 

Seriously, I think you have seen the good parts already  so, I may just call it good on the photos 

If you were going to learn anything it would have happened by now !


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> 2009 is a possibility
> 
> Seriously, I think you have seen the good parts already  so, I may just call it good on the photos
> 
> If you were going to learn anything it would have happened by now !


oh i have learned many things


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> oh i have learned many things


Yeah [like the fool thinks he can make a box without glue and caulk ].


----------



## Oliver

and of course ... it's just like so and so's

sure the great craftsmen are in there 70's [ but i can build one just like it [kinda} for less 

with glue and caulk and etc..,


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> and of course ... it's just like so and so's
> 
> sure the great craftsmen are in there 70's [ but i can build one just like it [kinda} for less
> 
> with glue and caulk and etc..,


glue screws caulk whatever, as long as the physics of the box are the same it will sound exactly the same,

now when you move the drivers half way along the baffle


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> glue screws caulk whatever, as long as the physics of the box are the same it will sound exactly the same,
> 
> now when you move the drivers half way along the baffle


I turned my directional RCA's around and now my speakers play thru my headunit 

There is never time to do it right ...but, there is always time to do it over 

Flattest bestest I've ever heardest 

How good ? [ traded it for a set of funky pups, can we say lllooowwww {Price}

Boss amps for the win [ 2,000 watts $23.95 ] {air , sparkle , etc.., "My headlights don't even dim" }

Am I glad I sold my McIntosh, Linear Power, Zapco , Genesis , etc..,

It really all is the same [ Too ME  ].

sound quality with hiss, tang, screech,sizz, bump,,,


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


> I turned my directional RCA's around and now my speakers play thru my headunit
> 
> There is never time to do it right ...but, there is always time to do it over
> 
> Flattest bestest I've ever heardest
> 
> How good ? [ traded it for a set of funky pups, can we say lllooowwww {Price}
> 
> Boss amps for the win [ 2,000 watts $23.95 ] {air , sparkle , etc.., "My headlights don't even dim" }
> 
> Am I glad I sold my McIntosh, Linear Power, Zapco , Genesis , etc..,
> 
> It really all is the same [ Too ME  ].
> 
> sound quality with hiss, tang, screech,sizz, bump,,,


how much $$ for a bottle of your pills shipped to 95065?


----------



## Oliver

$195.00 a bottle, Placebo for those who just don't ****ing get it 

They do everything so you don't have To! {Brought ot you by CircleJerk Labs , Aussie tested  }


----------



## chad

60ndown said:


> how much $$ for a bottle of your pills shipped to 95065?


I'm in, shipping is cheap to me


----------



## slvrtsunami

OOOHH, group buy!!! Im in.


----------



## Oliver

I am not taking any prescription meds now.

I added Ginkgo Biloba just recently to help with my thought processes.

Lukeboa does seem to be in need of something, maybe his woman could pinpoint it .


----------



## 60ndown

back from the dead 

c'mon a$$hole, give us an update, did pete actually die?

extra high power midwoofer got finished and sounds total crap (looks fantastic on teh inside tho  ) (despite all your skillz ][][}[read lackof]**
or its been working beautifully for months? [doubt it]   :^)** ! < unlikely lmao


----------



## Oliver




----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


>


www.decware.com


^for help {}..** ..<>,,[]


----------



## Oliver

60ndown said:


> back from the dead
> 
> c'mon a$$hole, give us an update, did pete actually die?
> 
> extra high power midwoofer got finished and sounds total crap (looks fantastic on teh inside tho  ) (despite all your skillz ][][}[read lackof]**
> or its been working beautifully for months? [doubt it]   :^)** ! < unlikely lmao


Update this 

#5 
60ndown 
DIYMA Addict




Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ca
Posts: 5,386 

you really need to get a life.

The Loser: acts helpless and unable to cope with the world and waits for someone to come to the rescue. Uses self-pity or indifference as a shield against fear of taking responsibility for changing his or her life. Looks constantly to others for guidance, which can lead to such problems as lacking assertiveness skills, under-achievement, and excessive reliance on others in relationships.


----------



## Oliver

This is what I'm asking Pete to try and recreate now


----------



## Oliver

Just say the word, and I'll post some awesome videos [ you made  ].

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oksv4y3rOmE


----------



## 60ndown

a$$hole said:


>


no idea where you got that pic of my friends wife from?



a$$hole said:


> This is what I'm asking Pete to try and recreate now


something that works 



a$$hole said:


> Just say the word, and I'll post some awesome videos [ you made  ].


why dont you post a video of your modded wo32 playing sub-bass [<-read midbass]


----------



## 60ndown

Humility is the defining characteristic of an unpretentious and modest person, someone who does not think that he or she is better or more important than others. Synonym: humble
The term "humility" is derived from the Latin word "humilis", which is translated not only as humble but also alternatively as "low", or "from the earth".and "humus", humid, which in the past it was believed that emotions, diseases, depressions, where causes by inbalances of body waters.[1] Because the concept of humility addresses intrinsic self-worth, it is emphasized in the realm of religious practice and ethics where the notion is often made more precise and extensive. Humility as a religious or spiritual virtue is different from the act of humiliation or shaming though the former may follow as a consequence of the latter.


----------



## 60ndown

There is a cultural dimension to waste. Wasting time, money, or food involves moral judgments that carry a great deal of weight in human interaction. Attitudes to this wastage differ between different societies.


----------



## Audiomechanic

This thread has become too smart for me. I need pictures for my simple mind. Is the damn sub finished or not?................damnit.


----------



## 60ndown

Audiomechanic said:


> This thread has become too smart for me. I need pictures for my simple mind. Is the damn sub finished or not?................damnit.


im thinking it was an $1800 experiment,

that didnt work.

otherwise we would have pics and reviews and graphs of how amazing it is.

but we haven't.


----------



## Audiomechanic

60ndown said:


> im thinking it was an $1800 experiment,
> 
> that didnt work.
> 
> otherwise we would have pics and reviews and graphs of how amazing it is.
> 
> but we haven't.


<----is not amused.

Like a "just kidding" right before the end of a fantastic BJ.


----------



## 60ndown

Audiomechanic said:


> <----is not amused.
> 
> Like a "just kidding" right before the end of a fantastic BJ.


no quite that frustrating for me


----------

