# JL Audio's 2010 XD Amplifiers



## ashlar

Originally Posted by jonnyanalog 
So Manville will the XD600/6 and the up coming 5 channel XD employ crossovers that can be bandpassed? They look really interesting to me. 




msmith said:


> No, unfortunately they don't. Cost and size constraints prevented that. You would need to use an outboard crossover, or a passive low-pass filter to create a bandpass.
> 
> Instead of hijacking this thread, let's start a new one on the XD's so we can discuss them. Thanks.


Here is the NEW thread.


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## manstretch

I wonder how these will sound compared to their HD line and if there will be a price drop on the HD's.


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## ErinH

JL Audio - Car Audio Systems


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## kyheng

The price should be lower than Slash or HD I guess, considering it is using unregulated power supply. But the size of the amp is something worth to mention. Just that if the new line up's 6 channel got power like HD600/4, it will be great. I can ditch my A6450 and head straight to it.


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## [email protected]

Looks like the 6-ch is the same as the old one power wise. They are tiny fort he power they put out. I might get one to check out.


I also like the cone on the WX subs, wonder where they will be priced. They say the cheapest sub they offer so I am guessing about $100 per driver


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## msmith

kyheng said:


> The price should be lower than Slash or HD I guess, considering it is using unregulated power supply. But the size of the amp is something worth to mention. Just that if the new line up's 6 channel got power like HD600/4, it will be great. I can ditch my A6450 and head straight to it.


You will find the power and features set of the XD6600 to be very similar to your A6450... it's just 65% smaller.


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## msmith

manstretch said:


> I wonder how these will sound compared to their HD line and if there will be a price drop on the HD's.


The XD's sound absolutely great... very hard to hear a difference.

No plans to lower the HD pricing... the HD's are more powerful, have more features, have a regulated supply with impedance optimization. 

XD's are replacing the G-series products, not HD.


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## msmith

BeatsDownLow said:


> Looks like the 6-ch is the same as the old one power wise. They are tiny fort he power they put out. I might get one to check out.
> 
> 
> I also like the cone on the WX subs, wonder where they will be priced. They say the cheapest sub they offer so I am guessing about $100 per driver


The WX's should be under $100/woofer... dealers set actual pricing.


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## [email protected]

msmith said:


> The WX's should be under $100/woofer... dealers set actual pricing.


How is the performance compared to the W0? About the same? I didnt see the specs for the WX online yet, whats the excursion on them? 12-14mm?


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## azngotskills

The specs are there:

JL Audio 12WX Subwoofers - Car Audio Subwoofers
JL Audio 10WX Subwoofers - Car Audio Subwoofers


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## [email protected]

azngotskills said:


> The specs are there:
> 
> JL Audio 12WX Subwoofers - Car Audio Subwoofers
> JL Audio 10WX Subwoofers - Car Audio Subwoofers


 dont know how I missed those


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## kvndoom

Man, an XD600.4 would have been the perfect fit for what I'm doing with my car. Awwww...


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## msmith

BeatsDownLow said:


> How is the performance compared to the W0? About the same? I didnt see the specs for the WX online yet, whats the excursion on them? 12-14mm?


WX's sound great and are very rugged, but they have less excursion than the W0's (Xmax is 9.5 mm). WX's are designed for up to 200W of power. 

The W0 is the better woofer, but these will typically sell for about 30% less.


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## kyheng

Manville : Yeah, I know that.... 65% smaller is really great as now I have a problem on how to mount the amp nicely, considering the heat generation of the class AB. 
Since you already have HD900/5, I guess it won't be hard to come out a HD 6 channel amp? This is actually what I'm hoping for when HD amps released to the market.


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## msmith

kyheng said:


> Manville : Yeah, I know that.... 65% smaller is really great as now I have a problem on how to mount the amp nicely, considering the heat generation of the class AB.
> Since you already have HD900/5, I guess it won't be hard to come out a HD 6 channel amp? This is actually what I'm hoping for when HD amps released to the market.


There are no plans for a six-channel HD at this time, unfortunately.


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## ncmarine

I'm guessing that the G Series amplifiers will drop in price with anticipation of these arriving to dealers.


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## bradinar

Manville: Maybe you can answer some questions for me. How do the slash series fit into the lineup now? I have a 300/4 and it seems to me that the XD600.4 is better than the slash in many ways. Has the same power at 4ohms, more power at 2ohms, smaller in size, more efficient, looks to have same/better crossovers, and I presume cheaper? Other than the R.I.P.S. system, which isn't really necessary for 4ohm drivers is there anything that is better on the slash?


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## 89grand

If I had to guess, I would assume the Slash series is nearing the grave. What's the point if their Class D's sound great and take up less room?


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## bradinar

I wonder if they plan on making an XD with enough balls to push a 12w7?


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## thehatedguy

IB4 reissues?


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## audio+civic

As a JL dealer we were under the impression that the xd amps are replacing the slash amps. I was never a fan of the slash amps but the HD amps are hard to beat. They will still be the best sounding amps from JL.


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## tinctorus

Man talk about throwing a wrench into the gears here....I had finally made up my mind on which amp's I was going to be running and now I find these and think I may go with these amps instead

I need a 4 channel,2 channel and 2 mono blocks


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## bradinar

tinctorus said:


> Man talk about throwing a wrench into the gears here....I had finally made up my mind on which amp's I was going to be running and now I find these and think I may go with these amps instead
> 
> I need a 4 channel,2 channel and 2 mono blocks


It says on the website they are release two channels later this year


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## blue150

> audio+civic Re: JL Audio's 2010 XD Amplifiers
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> As a JL dealer we were under the impression that the xd amps are replacing the slash amps. I was never a fan of the slash amps but the HD amps are hard to beat. They will still be the best sounding amps from JL.



Why not a fan?? I always thought they were a pretty good amp.


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## tinctorus

bradinar said:


> It says on the website they are release two channels later this year


I know i've got a hard on right now :laugh::laugh:


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## 6262ms3

msmith, any idea what the future XD 5-channel will be rated at? Talk about conundrum, I'm unable to ante up for a 900/5 but am leery about the PDX5 due to all of the noise floor complaints. I'd was planning on building my system in the early spring but this might be worth waiting a bit longer.


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## ncmarine

What is the earliest date to expect these at a dealer?


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## msmith

As it stands right now (subject to some change), the 5 channel will be 4x75 + 300W at 2 ohms / 4x50 + 200W at 4 ohms


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## msmith

89grand said:


> If I had to guess, I would assume the Slash series is nearing the grave. What's the point if their Class D's sound great and take up less room?


The Slash line will shrink down to 3 models in 2010: 500/1v2, 1000/1v2 and 300/4v2

We'll keep making them as long as people keep buying them. They've been on the market for 10 years now.


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## [email protected]

Can you tell us the price on the amps?


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## audio+civic

blue150 said:


> Why not a fan?? I always thought they were a pretty good amp.


They are good amps but never felt they were worth what they cost. I just really like HD amps so much more. I will probably run them or some McIntosh amps in my next car.


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## msmith

The first three XD models (4ch, 6ch and monoblock) should hit dealer stores around March or April. The remaining models sometime in the summer.

Pricing on the first three (MSRP USA) is:
XD400/4: $449.95
XD600/6: $599.95
XD600/1: $449.95

Dealers set actual selling price, of course.


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## kyheng

The term "worth" is quite subjective sometimes. For me, I'll just wait 1 or 2 years of each new release for the price to go down. That's how I term "worth" in car audio stuffs.


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## FSUnoles

audio+civic said:


> As a JL dealer we were under the impression that the xd amps are replacing the slash amps. I was never a fan of the slash amps but the HD amps are hard to beat. They will still be the best sounding amps from JL.


i agree, i love my HD amps


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## Brian Steele

ashlar said:


> Originally Posted by jonnyanalog
> So Manville will the XD600/6 and the up coming 5 channel XD employ crossovers that can be bandpassed? They look really interesting to me.


They don't even need to be bandpassed. It would be nice if they shifted the limit for the filter frequency up an octave or two, e.g. to 2kHz. It can't be THAT much more complex or expensive to do this electronically in the amp.

You could then use the LP filter on your deck (most of the better ones have one these days) to produce the bandpass response for the mids.


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## Brian Steele

I would say that I've been seriously looking at the HD amps. Basically getting TWO of the 900/5s and using them as follows:

Amp 1.
1,2,3,4 - bridged, feeding front midbass
sub channel - feeding sub #1

Amp 2.
1,2 - feeding front tweeters
3,4 - feeding rear fill, (or front midranges, if I go three-way)
sub channel - feeding sub #2

Yeah, it's overkill, but drool-worthy 

With these new XD amps, I might be able to do something similar at less cost too...


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## audio+civic

Brian Steele said:


> I would say that I've been seriously looking at the HD amps. Basically getting TWO of the 900/5s and using them as follows:
> 
> Amp 1.
> 1,2,3,4 - bridged, feeding front midbass
> sub channel - feeding sub #1
> 
> Amp 2.
> 1,2 - feeding front tweeters
> 3,4 - feeding rear fill, (or front midranges, if I go three-way)
> sub channel - feeding sub #2
> 
> Yeah, it's overkill, but drool-worthy
> With these new XD amps, I might be able to do something similar at less cost too...


I was thinking the same thing or two 600/4's and a 750/1. I think everyone needs to realize that the HD amps will probably sound better than the XD amps.


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## kyheng

Well, HD series is considered highes end for JL Audio followed by Slash and lastly alphabet series. XD series is replacing alphabet series as what has been said. Even the lowest end JL Audio, everything used is almost same except regulated power input and output.


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## ncmarine

Well, the rated THD is always different between the two top series and the bottom.


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## kyheng

^Yeah, but it still sounds good for my system. THD is 1 of the non important spec, for me. The source is more important.


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## wgovan

What are some other suggestions besides the xd 600/6 if I wanted to run 3 sets of speakers (sub not included in the 3 sets) ? how important is it to mid bass stereo if I use the hd 600/4 and bridge the mid bass zr800's?


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## kyheng

emmm..... You cannot use HD to compare with XDs. As XD are replacement for G series. Still the speaker's power requirement is the key factor of the amp's selections. XD600/6 is good for lower power requirement speakers.


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## wgovan

kyheng said:


> emmm..... You cannot use HD to compare with XDs. As XD are replacement for G series. Still the speaker's power requirement is the key factor of the amp's selections. XD600/6 is good for lower power requirement speakers.



So you feel that the 75w are sufficient for the zr800's for mid bass?


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## kyheng

Nope, XD600/6 is not that suitable for your midbass. HD600/4 is good or you have to bridge the XD600/6.

But follow the specs published, you should be good even if not bridged. I prefer to have higher power from amp, with such way, I got more control on the amp's gain.


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## JoeHemi57

Is there going to be an XD 5 channel too or just the 6 channel?


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## rommelrommel

JoeHemi57 said:


> Is there going to be an XD 5 channel too or just the 6 channel?


There is one planned.


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## bginamercedes

I've had two JL amps and I love them but at the same time dislike them. 500/1 broke on my and my friends grandpa somehow fixed it but it was a night mare. and my 1000/1 always cut out and then some how i fixed it and was just to fed up with it.


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## rcurley55

Has anyone HEARD the XD amps. The XD600/6 + XD600/1 fit my needs perfectly. I guess I could just buy one HD900/5 instead, but down the road, I could easily add an XD400/4 and be set for a Logic 7 system.

Hmmmm. I wanted to get away from class d, but it really does suit my current needs (I have a tiny spot to put amps and I can't generate much heat).


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## diamondjoequimby

rcurley55 said:


> Has anyone HEARD the XD amps. The XD600/6 + XD600/1 fit my needs perfectly. I guess I could just buy one HD900/5 instead, but down the road, I could easily add an XD400/4 and be set for a Logic 7 system.
> 
> Hmmmm. I wanted to get away from class d, but it really does suit my current needs (I have a tiny spot to put amps and I can't generate much heat).


IMO they sound as good or better than slash and hard to tell the difference between them and HD. Personally I think the 600/1 sounds better than the 500/1v2 and the 400/4 is a toss up to the 300/4v2. Again, my opinion.


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## matt1212

manville, i dont mean to thread jack but i was wondering if there were any plans for a Slash v3 lineup anytime soon, ones that maybe included a dsp with time alignment and other cool features. you guys have always seemed very innovative at JL so i figured chances are good youd put out an amp with a built in dsp, since it seems to be the latest craze. I love my 1000/1v2, 450/4v2, and 300/4v2, but was looking for something new....


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## audionublet

Guess I need to do some research, but I had assumed the XD amps were the Slash replacement. Time to find out what the difference is!


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## DS-21

The only meaningful differences that may be an issue in some systems are that the Slash's have a 10x switch on the crossover, and I believe the Slash sub amps have a bass boost that the XD's may not.

Otherwise, Jello makes thoroughly competent amps. One shouldn't expect, within their power limits, an XD to sound any different from a Slash or an HD.


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## jaydub

I had a chance to take a look at one at a local dealer here in Vegas today. I was blown away by the minuscule size of the xd400/4. 

Now to decide between that and an xd600/6....


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## msmith

jaydub said:


> I had a chance to take a look at one at a local dealer here in Vegas today. I was blown away by the minuscule size of the xd400/4.
> 
> Now to decide between that and an xd600/6....


Tiny, isn't it? 

The first time I held an SLA mockup in my hands I thought it was 3/4 scale.


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## jaydub

Incredibly. The guy at the shop told me at first he thought it was an updated CleanSweep or something.


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## TREETOP

Some quick phone pics I took of an XD600/1 and an XD600/6 that I'm in the process of installing in a twin turbo Dodge Viper:

With my hand for size reference (badges aren't installed on the cover panels yet):









I used .75" MDF to build a little angled amprack:



























Mocked up in the corner of the trunk:
(center hole is to access gain on XD600/1 and amp rack mounting bolts, 2 side holes are to access bottom 2 mounting feet of the XD600/1. Bottom slot is for XD600/6 wiring)

















Amp rack carpeted:









Both amps wired (except for 3 speaker wires) and mounted in final spot, trunk carpet back in place:









The car left before I was done to get some engine issues sorted (it's detuned to 1200HP for street use ), it'll be back soon for me to finish. I haven't heard these amps yet but I'll say the build quality is great and they're TINY. So far I'm impressed, if they sound anywhere near as good as they look and feel these will be amazing amps.


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## bkjay

Holy crap those things are tiny!
Btw nice neat install.


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## bassfromspace

Are these amps the smallest on the market?


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## t3sn4f2

bkjay said:


> Holy crap those things are tiny!
> Btw nice neat install.


x2, nice use of available space. Maybe also a velcro'ed on 1/4" ply or MDF cover to protect from accidental damage or short to the wiring.


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## rcurley55

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on these - hmm. The 600/6 to a pair of tweeters and midbass and a 600/1 for sub duties sounds about perfect.


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## bassfromspace

rcurley55 said:


> I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on these - hmm. The 600/6 to a pair of tweeters and midbass and a 600/1 for sub duties sounds about perfect.


That's exactly what I'm thinking. I can squeeze these under the seats. And a Bit One to tune with.


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## TREETOP

bkjay said:


> Holy crap those things are tiny!
> Btw nice neat install.





t3sn4f2 said:


> x2, nice use of available space. Maybe also a velcro'ed on 1/4" ply or MDF cover to protect from accidental damage or short to the wiring.


Thanks! 
I'll probably make a cover that replaces the aluminum factory cover and extends further down to the floor, and use a larger JL logo from a slash v2 amp on it. This is a guy's extra car and I doubt he hauls groceries in the trunk, but I prefer the option of all the wiring being tucked away. Either way, I'm pretty picky with my wiring and it won't look bad if I keep it exposed.


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## bri g

wow those are indeed tiny! maybe its time I replace my 4 art amps (that take up my whole trunk floor) with 2 of these! will probably use up 1/5 the space


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## vactor

holy Sex!!! i think i just found my setup to go with my JBL MS-8 !! thanks for the pics. and nice work btw!!


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## camojoe

*flamesuit on* Screw the amps,pics of viper and turbos pleaseepper:


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## Qicker306

Finally got our shipment of these in at the store in Canada. They're so nice. I'm hoping someone will come in wanting a nice custom amp rack full of these cuties.


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## jaydub

I don't know if they're the smallest on the market, but they're certainly the smallest I've seen in person. For a car the size of my MINI, it should be perfect under the seat.


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## rcurley55

vactor said:


> holy Sex!!! i think i just found my setup to go with my JBL MS-8 !! thanks for the pics. and nice work btw!!


And they kinda match cosmetically.

I was thinking a 600/6 to the 5 speakers, 400/4 bridged to midbass, and 600/1 for subs


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## msmith

Nice install, Treetop!

A lot of installers are finding that the XD's actually fit under real-world car seats, so a lot of them are being installed that way.

I'm not sure if the XD's are the absolute smallest amps on the market, but if they aren't, they've got to be near the top of the list (especially compared to amps of similar power output). The upcoming 2-channel is even smaller than the 4-channel (about 2/3 the width).

Thanks for all the feedback, guys!

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.


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## dgoldenz

These would be handy in my C6. Tempting...very tempting.


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## TREETOP

camojoe said:


> *flamesuit on* Screw the amps,pics of viper and turbos pleaseepper:


No pics of the turbos themselves, they're underneath. Here's the car and the underhood goodness though:


















I did a little sound deadening too:











msmith said:


> Nice install, Treetop!


Thank you, Manville, that means a lot- especially coming from you. 
I've installed a couple more since, the last one was an XD600/6 in a BMW Z3. It sounded great, even better than I expected. I first put in an XD400/4, then a week later the guy wanted to add a sub so I swapped it out for a 600/6 and bridged 5 and 6 to a 10WX. Had to run another RCA but otherwise it was a super simple swap. Pretty simple install overall.

Here are the XD400/4 and XD600/6 together with their covers off, next to Channellock 909 crimpers for size reference:









Z3 trunk:









Amp:











msmith said:


> ...The upcoming 2-channel is even smaller than the 4-channel (about 2/3 the width).


I'm looking forward to that one, I may get one for myself to run rear fill. With three 300/2v2s and a Matrix inside my center console (sub amp is in the back), I only have a bit of room left- but I think _just_ enough for an XD200/2.


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## tinctorus

TREETOP said:


> The car left before I was done to get some engine issues sorted *(it's detuned to 1200HP for street use* ), it'll be back soon for me to finish. I haven't heard these amps yet but I'll say the build quality is great and they're TINY. So far I'm impressed, if they sound anywhere near as good as they look and feel these will be amazing amps.


LOL thats ****ing great!!!

My buddy had a single turbo supra about 2 years ago and good god was that thing ridiculous, I think on spray he was putting down somwhere shy of 1600hp at the wheels...It was a bit scary when we would be crusing the highway at 100MPH and he would drop it down a gear and stomp on it and the back tires would break loose and we would be doing a 100mph rolling burnout!!!!


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## msmith

Check out the baby of the line: XD200/2
75Wx2 @ 4 ohms, 100W x 2 @ 2 ohms









Shot at 2010-05-21









Shot at 2010-05-21


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## mmiller

msmith said:


> Check out the baby of the line: XD200/2
> 75Wx2 @ 4 ohms, 100W x 2 @ 2 ohms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shot at 2010-05-21
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shot at 2010-05-21


Manville,

That is Unreal......


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## ryan s

It seems that I now have (all of a sudden) thoughts of about 4 places to put amps in my car where they would never be seen, could never be scratched, and never be in the way.

This type of thinking cannot be healthy.

A fun irony is that I already have a deck of cards in the car...somewhere...that could also swallow about 3 of these XD amps...


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## bkjay

Reminds me of little wonder soundstream days.


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## ryan s

The manual is in English and German...lol why German? Not that it's bad weil ich Deutsch lesen und sprechen kann...just strange :laugh:

Why no 10x switch for the XOs? Only 50-500Hz. A 600/6 will be perfect since my headunit is active...but still...


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## rcurley55

so close to pulling trigger...must...resist...


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## dhershberger

I pulled the trigger. You won't regret it; it's a great little amp. At the risk of ridicule, here's an image of the thing in the back of my SUV.


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## tintbox

Those things are definitely smaller than my slash series. WOW.


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## dhershberger

ryan s said:


> The manual is in English and German...lol why German? Not that it's bad weil ich Deutsch lesen und sprechen kann...just strange :laugh:


Are you looking at an online version of the manual or something? My printed version is only in English.


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## ryan s

Yeah, the online version.

I was like...40 pages? Ohhh...2 languages :laugh:


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## TREETOP

Manville, any word on when the little XD200/2 will be available? Are they shipping already? I'm going to start playing around with rear fill again soon and this amp already has a home in my vehicle. .

I just put another XD400/4 in a Nismo 350Z, I tucked it way back into the empty cavity behind the driver's seat. A pretty basic setup with separates in the front, coaxes in the back, no sub. I used all factory mounting points to keep from adding any holes to the car:



















For the people into these cars:


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## DS-21

msmith said:


> Check out the baby of the line: XD200/2
> 75Wx2 @ 4 ohms, 100W x 2 @ 2 ohms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shot at 2010-05-21
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shot at 2010-05-21


Manville, do the dimensions you stated earlier - 174mm (6.85 inches), depth of 180mm (7.09 inches) and height of 52mm (2.05 inches) - still apply? Because it look a good deal smaller than that in the picture.

SOMEBODY's having visions of briding his MHD900/5 to just do sub and midbass duty, and feeding his widebanders with a neatly tucked away XD200/2 (well, ideally the M200/2 to keep the IMO more attractive color scheme of your marine amps).

PS: Nice Macs.


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## audio+civic

I haven't heard them in a car but I put the 4 channel and the sub amp in the display a couple of days ago and I was impressed. I agree it does open up a whole new world of where to put amps now.


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## quality_sound

soooo tempting but I'd have to run one of each for my setup.  I don't know that that woudl even save me any room or offer more power over the 900/5, 600/4 setup I'm going to use.


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## kyheng

Looks like almost same as DEH-P01's amp? Need this fellow for my midbass.....


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## msmith

ryan s said:


> The manual is in English and German...lol why German? Not that it's bad weil ich Deutsch lesen und sprechen kann...just strange :laugh:


Our German distributor was persuasive and willing to do the translation. 



> Why no 10x switch for the XOs? Only 50-500Hz. A 600/6 will be perfect since my headunit is active...but still...


You're gonna looooooooove the XD five-channel (August)


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## ryan s

Tease!!! :laugh:

Still reconsidering my multiple amp approach, so I'll stay tuned for a few more months and see what the 5 channel's got going on


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## sn95chico

I have nothing but good things to say about my slash amps 

they are great amps "period" and i can chose from any amp in the shop lol 

but if these amps are just as good but smaller you have a winner and i cant wait to try them


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## BlueAc

msmith said:


> Check out the baby of the line: XD200/2
> 75Wx2 @ 4 ohms, 100W x 2 @ 2 ohms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shot at 2010-05-21
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shot at 2010-05-21


Based on the MSRP for the other amps in the XD lineup I'm guessing this will be in the $200 ballpark. Would I be correct?


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## topperge

msmith said:


> You're gonna looooooooove the XD five-channel (August)


5 Channel XD? You have my interest peaked.

Also, are we ever going to see the HD 1200/1, been waiting to upgrade my Avalanche with that amp + the stealthbox at the same time.


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## mmiller

msmith said:


> There are no plans for a six-channel HD at this time, unfortunately.


Manville, I would love to see a 7-8 channel HD.... any chance of that?


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## msmith

Treetop... the 2-channel will ship in July. 

Topperge... HD1200/1 looks like end of the year (December). The 5-channel will ship in September. 

DS-21: The 2-channel dimensions are 6.85” x 7.09” x 2.05” (174mm x 180mm x 52mm)

mmiller: No plans for a 7-8 channel model at this time. It would require a larger chassis, so it's doubtful

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.


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## audioslavery

No 5 Channel till September!? 

Ugh, I guess I'll have to save up some extra cash and just get the HD900/5


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## mrcllusb

These are some nice amps!!!Looking at these at local dealer makes me wanna switch.Which XD amp or amps would you guys recommend for a C2-650 component set that runs 75watts RMS running passive and a 10W3v3-2 needing 300watts?


----------



## chipss

I am enjoying my xd 400/4 pushes my x pro comps active just fine, install was easy with this little guy and not a hint of noise.
agree with others on the crossovers, even though I dont use them.


----------



## audioslavery

I just ordered both a 400/4 and a 600/1 for $520. Hope they end up working out nicely.


----------



## fish

audioslavery said:


> I just ordered both a 400/4 and a 600/1 for $520. Hope they end up working out nicely.


Damn that's cheap! Where'd you order from?


----------



## audioslavery

Keep an eye on ebay, some guy had both of his up for 300 and I offered him 260 each shipped. They're on there way .


----------



## chipss

I am eyeballing that 600/1 myself, I may take 2 there small. ..lol


----------



## DS-21

Also, they're full-range, which is kind of neat. Consider how small an XD is and how much it costs vs., say a 300W full-range McIntosh monobloc...


----------



## quality_sound

^^^Exactly. The XDs open up all kinds of new possibilities. The fact that the 600/1 is full-range is friggin' awesome.


----------



## fish

If you had a 3 way passive you could get a couple of those 600/1's. Make that three, one for the sub(s).


----------



## t3sn4f2

What am I missing? The XD600/1 specs say it only goes up to 500Hz.


----------



## DS-21

The _crossover_ goes up to 500Hz, and is defeatable. The manual says "rated Power @ 12.5V with less than 1% tHd + noise (20Hz - 20 kHz) [email protected] [email protected]"


----------



## t3sn4f2

DS-21 said:


> The _crossover_ goes up to 500Hz, and is defeatable. The manual says "rated Power @ 12.5V with less than 1% tHd + noise (20Hz - 20 kHz) [email protected] [email protected]"


Isn't that the bandwidth for the noise measured? It does state "Frequency Response: 7 Hz - 500 Hz (+0, -1dB)".


----------



## t3sn4f2

Bad news.....

*"For the XD subwoofer amplifiers and channels, we have taken the simple fixed PWM approach and enhanced with a very high switching frequency (240 kHz, which is about 4x higher than most Class D subwoofer amplifiers). This pushes their bandwidth to at least 500 Hz with minimal distortion and improves efficiency,* while keeping typically bulky circuity more compact. The end results are stellar, with rock-solid bass performance and damping factors exceeding 1000 at 4 ohms and 500 at 2 ohms. Your subwoofers will thank you.


The full-range XD amplifiers and channels use a variable, ultra-high speed version of NexD™ technology (switching at well over 400 kHz). In these designs, a self-oscillating modulator with "feed-forward" sends information about the instantaneous power supply voltage to the modulator, combining this with the input signal to cancel out any distortion due to supply voltage fluctuation. This reduces distortion prior to applying feedback, simplifying the overall feedback loop design without sacrificing audio quality."


----------



## fish

Oops, shoulda done some research instead of assuming :blush:. I guess it would still do well for a midbass.


----------



## DS-21

t3sn4f2 said:


> Bad news.....
> 
> *"For the XD subwoofer amplifiers and channels, we have taken the simple fixed PWM approach and enhanced with a very high switching frequency (240 kHz, which is about 4x higher than most Class D subwoofer amplifiers). This pushes their bandwidth to at least 500 Hz*


*

Hmm. I remember Manville writing that they were full-range, and the defeatable xover (as well as a switching frequency of half the full-rangers) still suggests they're usable past 500 Hz. Maybe not as I high I had thought though.*


----------



## t3sn4f2

DS-21 said:


> Hmm. I remember Manville writing that they were full-range, and the defeatable xover (as well as a switching frequency of half the full-rangers) still suggests they're usable past 500 Hz. Maybe not as I has I had thought though.


I bet they would work nicely on a big ass midbass.


----------



## ryan s

So, got my Crutchfield paper catalog today. Still get the same feeling as I did when I was 12 or so...paging through it, looking at the specs :laugh:

The XD600/5 is listed but not on their website nor JL's. Same XOs (accurate?), same chassis size as the /6.

Power:
75 x 4 @ 4 ohms + 300 x 1 @ 2 ohms

MSRP $549.99


----------



## msmith

The XD600/1 is not full range. The HD750/1, on the other hand, is full range.


----------



## DS-21

ryan s said:


> So, got my Crutchfield paper catalog today. Still get the same feeling as I did when I was 12 or so...paging through it, looking at the specs :laugh:
> 
> The XD600/5 is listed but not on their website nor JL's. Same XOs (accurate?), same chassis size as the /6.
> 
> Power:
> 75 x 4 @ 4 ohms + 300 x 1 @ 2 ohms
> 
> MSRP $549.99


Just got that, too. Seems an odd thing: basically a less-flexible XD600/6 that costs 50 bucks more.



msmith said:


> The XD600/1 is not full range. The HD750/1, on the other hand, is full range.


Ah, thanks for clearing up my confusion.


----------



## chadillac3

But more power on the sub channel. 300 vs. 200


----------



## dhershberger

chadillac3 said:


> But more power on the sub channel. 300 vs. 200


It's [email protected]Ω or [email protected]Ω. 
[email protected]Ω is identical to an XD600/6 with 2 channels bridged.


----------



## msmith

The Crutchfield page on the upcoming XD 5ch is full of errors. It was based on very preliminary info. The XD 5ch will be called the XD700/5 and will offer 4x100w + 300w at 2 ohms, 4x75w + 180w @ 4 ohms and will have a 3-way capable crossover section. Specs are still subject to change, but that's the info I have right now.


----------



## rcurley55

msmith said:


> The Crutchfield page on the upcoming XD 5ch is full of errors. It was based on very preliminary info. The XD 5ch will be called the XD700/1 and will offer 4x100w + 300w at 2 ohms, 4x75w + 200w @ 4 ohms and will have a 3-way capable crossover section. Specs are still subject to change, but that's the info I have right now.


I'm assuming you meant 700/5?


----------



## chadillac3

dhershberger said:


> It's [email protected]Ω or [email protected]Ω.
> [email protected]Ω is identical to an XD600/6 with 2 channels bridged.


Right, and unless my math skills have faded with time, 300 > 200.


----------



## msmith

rcurley55 said:


> I'm assuming you meant 700/5?


Yes, thanks... I edited my earlier post and corrected it. (I hate typing on my iPhone).


----------



## dhershberger

chadillac3 said:


> Right, and unless my math skills have faded with time, 300 > 200.


Ummmm... does in someway negate my point?


----------



## msmith

Here are a couple of spy shots of the 5 channel XD:



















Ignore the fact that the model number silkscreened on the amp is "XD600/5"... that was before we found an extra 100 watts loitering inside the design.


----------



## [email protected]

Does that share the same size sink as the 6-ch?


----------



## msmith

BeatsDownLow said:


> Does that share the same size sink as the 6-ch?


Yes, it does.


----------



## ISTundra

Is that a bandpass filter I see in those spy shots?

Ugh… I hate that JL is promoting the 2 ohm power ratings and even tying in the model in the model number into it on these amps. It makes it looks like you’re playing down to the competition, and I’ve always held JL in higher regard than that.


----------



## ryan s

Oh my...BP *and *10x switches...

Thanks for clearing that up...I was kind of confused why Crutchfield would list basically the same amp twice :laugh:


----------



## msmith

ISTundra said:


> Is that a bandpass filter I see in those spy shots?
> 
> Ugh… I hate that JL is promoting the 2 ohm power ratings and even tying in the model in the model number into it on these amps. It makes it looks like you’re playing down to the competition, and I’ve always held JL in higher regard than that.


Hmmm... We have always used the amplifier's highest power rating as the basis for the model number... this is nothing new. It's been industry practice since the beginning of time, except maybe for the old days of stupid cheater amps that made full power at useless impedances like 0.5 ohms.

I'm also not sure why it's considered "bad form" to mention what an amp does at 2 ohms per channel / 4 ohms bridged. These are useful specs. Maybe you're just accustomed to our RIPS-enabled amps that make the same power over a wide range of impedances?


----------



## msmith

ryan s said:


> Oh my...BP *and *10x switches...


Yup... all because of you guys! Now buy a whole bunch of them!


----------



## DS-21

msmith said:


> The Crutchfield page on the upcoming XD 5ch is full of errors. It was based on very preliminary info. The XD 5ch will be called the XD700/5 and will offer 4x100w + 300w at 2 ohms, 4x75w + 180w @ 4 ohms and will have a 3-way capable crossover section. Specs are still subject to change, but that's the info I have right now.


Well, that sounds more reasonable, though in terms of amp channels it still sounds like a insignificantly lower power XD600/6. (same power on four channels, but 140W on the sub channel for the XD700/5 vs. 200W rating for two bridged channels.) But the crossover is more flexible than an XD600/6's, with the 10x switch and BP capability. And for people who aren't happy unless their subwoofer is running at the lowest possible impedance the XD700/5 will probably be a better choice, because I assume a dedicated sub channel will be designed to accommodate such foolishness. That certainly makes it more useful for a lot of people.

I think the problem you're running into is that the XD600/6 looks like a great value, really the sweet spot of your whole amp line according to this guy running an MHD900/5. And everything else is rightly being compared to it. 



ISTundra said:


> Ugh… I hate that JL is promoting the 2 ohm power ratings and even tying in the model in the model number into it on these amps.


See, Manville! 

But in JL's defense, everyone's always done the model number thing, and there's really no reason to expect that the model number of a given amp has any relation to its power rating. For example, remember what the old 50w4/4Ω, 100x4/2Ω, 200x2/4Ω PPI Art Series amp was called? It was not the A204.2 (that was 25x4/4Ω) but the A404.2.

So I think the model number is a separate issue from the order (and thus the apparent utility to the end user) in which specifications are communicated.


----------



## ISTundra

msmith said:


> Hmmm... We have always used the amplifier's highest power rating as the basis for the model number... this is nothing new. It's been industry practice since the beginning of time, except maybe for the old days of stupid cheater amps that made full power at useless impedances like 0.5 ohms.
> 
> I'm also not sure why it's considered "bad form" to mention what an amp does at 2 ohms per channel / 4 ohms bridged. These are useful specs. Maybe you're just accustomed to our RIPS-enabled amps that make the same power over a wide range of impedances?


You're right, I'm just used to the RIPS amps ratings, but I still like to evaluate amp power @ 4 ohm, and consider using other impedance ratings as a little misleading. It reminds me of the low end crap that promotes stuff like 1000w of power in a $200 amp, never mind that it's at .5 or 1 ohm.

To me, JL is a cut above all other mainstream amp manufacturers out there, but I understand you also have to compete for the business of the masses who value power/price performance.

Any future plans to add the BP and 10X x-over features on the HD900/5? The x-over's on it are sorely lacking these.


----------



## chipss

wow that will take that amp to a whole new level, I bet you do sell a bunch of them, 

you have to admit jl is blazing new trails over all the other amp makers, first with the size and power of the hd line then the xd line even smaller.


----------



## msmith

ISTundra said:


> You're right, I'm just used to the RIPS amps ratings, but I still like to evaluate amp power @ 4 ohm, and consider using other impedance ratings as a little misleading. It reminds me of the low end crap that promotes stuff like 1000w of power in a $200 amp, never mind that it's at .5 or 1 ohm.
> 
> To me, JL is a cut above all other mainstream amp manufacturers out there, but I understand you also have to compete for the business of the masses who value power/price performance.


I appreciate the sentiment, but I just don't see how conservatively stating the amp's continuous 2 ohm ratings is at all like publishing fantasy peak power specs like a cheap amplifier. Plus, for the subwoofer channel, the 2 ohm rating is quite important. We could publish that the XD700/5's sub channel will actually do close to 400W at 2 ohms and close to 500W at 1.5 ohms, but we decided to be conservative. :surprised:



> Any future plans to add the BP and 10X x-over features on the HD900/5? The x-over's on it are sorely lacking these.


It's being discussed. No decision yet. The HD900/5 is a very complex product and it works really, really well right now and is selling really, really well, too. Not a lot of excitement about revisiting it just yet... but I'm working on it.


----------



## msmith

DS-21 said:


> I think the problem you're running into is that the XD600/6 looks like a great value, really the sweet spot of your whole amp line according to this guy running an MHD900/5. And everything else is rightly being compared to it.


Interesting take... but being that the five-channel gives you 50% more subwoofer power (at 2 ohms), and roughly the same power at 4 ohms... and also adds the 3-way crossover functionality... $50.00 additional seems like a fair upcharge. Ne cest pas?




> See, Manville!
> 
> But in JL's defense, everyone's always done the model number thing, and there's really no reason to expect that the model number of a given amp has any relation to its power rating. For example, remember what the old 50w4/4Ω, 100x4/2Ω, 200x2/4Ω PPI Art Series amp was called? It was not the A204.2 (that was 25x4/4Ω) but the A404.2.
> 
> So I think the model number is a separate issue from the order (and thus the apparent utility to the end user) in which specifications are communicated.


Yes, I recall selling quite a few PPI A600 amplifiers... they were 150W x2 @ 4 ohms and only made 600W at 2 ohms... until they overheated. :laugh:

You would be amazed how many people still think it's completely bogus that our RIPS amplifiers don't "double power at 2 ohms"... you can't win!

Only in the insane world of car audio can it be considered dishonest to accurately and descriptively rate an amplifier! :laugh:


----------



## DS-21

msmith said:


> I appreciate the sentiment, but I just don't see how conservatively stating the amp's continuous 2 ohm ratings is at all like publishing fantasy peak power specs like a cheap amplifier.


It's not the same, of course, but 2Ω ratings on main channels aren't that relevant to most people. Your own mains speakers, from what I could see by checking out one of each series on your website, are all nominally 4Ω. And there's a difference, as I've written before, between _mentioning_ both ratings and _prioritizing_ one over the other by listing it first. By all means, give as complete a specification as you can! But give the most relevant info first. 

That said, 2Ω mains does seem to be something coming up in car-fi. In that same Crutchfield catalog I noticed Infinity has a new set of mains that are 2Ω. Odd, because their own amps don't put out meaningfully more power at 2Ω. (150W isn't meaningfully different from 125W in my book.)



msmith said:


> Plus, for the subwoofer channel, the 2 ohm rating is quite important. We could publish that the XD700/5's sub channel will actually do close to 400W at 2 ohms and close to 500W at 1.5 ohms, but we decided to be conservative. :surprised:


A cynic might say that XD750/5 would confuse people between that and the HD750. 

There's a fair argument that for subwoofer-only amps that could be the 2Ω rating, or at least that giving the 2Ω rating for sub amps is the industry custom. But the same doesn't really apply to amps intended to drive mains.



msmith said:


> The HD900/5 is a very complex product and it works really, really well right now and is selling really, really well, too.


Can't speak to the latter point, though it's an objectively good thing to hear that good products are selling well in any market, but can confirm the first point. That much power in such a little box with so little heat (admittedly, driving 8Ω widebanders, 4Ω midbasses, and a nominally 12Ω in the passband subwoofer) is quite a testament to well-executed modern technology.



msmith said:


> Interesting take... but being that the five-channel gives you 50% more subwoofer power (at 2 ohms), and roughly the same power at 4 ohms... and also adds the 3-way crossover functionality... $50.00 additional seems like a fair upcharge. Ne cest pas?


Depends on the needs of the user. (For my purposes, the answer would be no, but not everyone is running an external processor.) With the additional information you gave us, there is value added compared to the XD600/6, though there's also some taken away. With the new information about the crossover (compared to the C'field blurb) it's a different situation. Regardless, it does sound like some trick engineering, especially if (as I presume) we're talking about cramming extra analog circuitry in there and not reprogramming a DSP. Not that there's anything at all wrong with or different-sounding about DSP-based crossovers.)



msmith said:


> IYou would be amazed how many people still think it's completely bogus that our RIPS amplifiers don't "double power at 2 ohms"... you can't win!


Um, I think you are winning. 

But really, those thought are just the market responding to marketers. It's been drummed into people's heads that if it doesn't double with halving of impedance it's crap. (In car and home audio alike.) Never mind that doubling into halving of impedance was always marketing BS. It's theoretically possible, but not real world likely. The only way to get an amp to "double" with halving of impedance is to rate it accurately at the lower impedance, and then just half the rating such that the rating at impedances people will actually run is inaccurately low. Krell and others used that strategy at home.


----------



## tophatjimmy

DS-21 said:


> I noticed Infinity has a new set of mains that are 2Ω.


They've been doing this for several years. The reason they do that is they 'factor in' small gauge factory speaker wire and power compression to achieve a 'final' 4 ohm impedence. 

I say its marketing.

I have a set of Kappa 2 ohm components. The DCR of the woofers and tweeters are 3.8ohms.


----------



## msmith

DS-21:
Processing is all analog on the XD's (and HD's).


----------



## subwoofery

DS-21 said:


> ...That said, 2Ω mains does seem to be something coming up in car-fi. In that same Crutchfield catalog I noticed Infinity has a new set of mains that are 2Ω. Odd, because their own amps don't put out meaningfully more power at 2Ω. (150W isn't meaningfully different from 125W in my book.)...


Correct, there aren't many comps that have a 2 ohms ratings but there are: 
My Focal K3P set can be configured for 2 ohms. 
The Infinity set you mentioned is 2 ohm, same goes for the new JBL set (Harman is crazy ) 
I guess there are a couple more. 

Another thing is that a lot of SPL competitors use more than one comp per channel. Which means they need to know the 2 ohm (even the 1 ohm) ratings. 

Kelvin


----------



## AAAAAAA

There is no denying that posting the 2ohm rating first for non-sub outputs does give a "second rate" feel.

We have all been a customed to seeing 4ohm first. When I first looked at the specs I was impressed only to then see the 20hm rating and felt a bit tricked. This all happened within a few seconds.

Like DS says, most uses don't invole 2ohm anyways.

I do have a question in regards to the 2ohm rating , at what distortion level is it? I have a feeling most companies 2ohm rating must be at a pretty high level but assume your amp's 2ohm rating to be low because THD is it a respectable level.


----------



## msmith

All the power ratings are at 1% THD as this has become industry practice. These are 20 Hz ratings with all channels driven... not 1 kHz ratings one channel at a time. Real-world distortion is below 0.1% at and below rated power.


----------



## AAAAAAA

^I figured you would answer something to that affect. 

So if it was a 1khz sine wave one channel at a time, would there be a significant power output difference?


----------



## 89grand

AAAAAAA said:


> ^I figured you would answer something to that affect.
> 
> So if it was a 1khz sine wave one channel at a time, would there be a significant power output difference?


I don't want to answer for him, but driving 1 channel at 1khz is MUCH easier than driving all channels and not at 1khz.

I would imagine testing 1 channel at 1khz, that the power difference would be a good 20% higher if not more.


----------



## msmith

AAAAAAA said:


> ^I figured you would answer something to that affect.
> 
> So if it was a 1khz sine wave one channel at a time, would there be a significant power output difference?


Yes.


----------



## msmith

Just a heads up that the XD700/5 five-channel is now shipping to dealers. Full specs and pics can be seen here:
JL Audio XD700/5 Amplifiers - Car Audio Amps & Amplifiers


----------



## JoeHemi57

Nice amp, I'll take one of those, a C3 650 component set, and a pair of 10w0v2's. Thanks in advance manville


----------



## red03vette

That is the perfect amp for my wife's car! She does not like a lot of equipment in her vehicle.


----------



## kyheng

Well, for the sake of simplicities, XD are the best option.


----------



## amungal

I totally agree with someone who commented earlier that the slash series was being made irreleveant by the HD. I have 2 450/4's and was psyched about getting them. Now I look at the HD 900/5 and wonder why I am wasting so much space in my trunk and carrying around so much weight? This really sucks!


----------



## amungal

Sorry, I meant 'irrelevant'


----------



## BoonDoggie

msmith said:


> Just a heads up that the XD700/5 five-channel is now shipping to dealers.


 About friggin time! I know the importance of 'Heads up' launches, but I wish dates would be settled and I was able to get better knowledge about the product in situations like these. Frankly this was handled abysmally marketing wise. I mean Crutchfield had the info (complete with expected ship date!) about the amp before you posted on JL's site, let alone the amp they had (XD600/5) wasn't the one that would finally be shipped, and then they changed the amp in their info (but STILL wasn't listed on JL's site!), and I wind up having to turn here for info on this (at the time) phantom amp. This was over the course of some 3-4 months. Beyond annoying. 

I really feel that unless the amp is ready to ship, don't let Crutchfield and the others get a chance to display it. Just not the way I would expect JL to do things. Not to say you guys aint great, I love your amps, and I've finally got my XD700/5 ordered. I just wish this could've been done better.



[Would I have done any better driving down to you guys and ordering one direct from you? I'm just wondering....]


----------



## bassfromspace

BoonDoggie said:


> About friggin time! I know the importance of 'Heads up' launches, but I wish dates would be settled and I was able to get better knowledge about the product in situations like these. Frankly this was handled abysmally marketing wise. I mean Crutchfield had the info (complete with expected ship date!) about the amp before you posted on JL's site, let alone the amp they had (XD600/5) wasn't the one that would finally be shipped, and then they changed the amp in their info (but STILL wasn't listed on JL's site!), and I wind up having to turn here for info on this (at the time) phantom amp. This was over the course of some 3-4 months. Beyond annoying.
> 
> I really feel that unless the amp is ready to ship, don't let Crutchfield and the others get a chance to display it. Just not the way I would expect JL to do things. Not to say you guys aint great, I love your amps, and I've finally got my XD700/5 ordered. I just wish this could've been done better.
> 
> 
> 
> [Would I have done any better driving down to you guys and ordering one direct from you? I'm just wondering....]


Are you ok?


----------



## msmith

BoonDoggie said:


> About friggin time! I know the importance of 'Heads up' launches, but I wish dates would be settled and I was able to get better knowledge about the product in situations like these. Frankly this was handled abysmally marketing wise. I mean Crutchfield had the info (complete with expected ship date!) about the amp before you posted on JL's site, let alone the amp they had (XD600/5) wasn't the one that would finally be shipped, and then they changed the amp in their info (but STILL wasn't listed on JL's site!), and I wind up having to turn here for info on this (at the time) phantom amp. This was over the course of some 3-4 months. Beyond annoying.
> 
> I really feel that unless the amp is ready to ship, don't let Crutchfield and the others get a chance to display it. Just not the way I would expect JL to do things. Not to say you guys aint great, I love your amps, and I've finally got my XD700/5 ordered. I just wish this could've been done better.
> 
> 
> 
> [Would I have done any better driving down to you guys and ordering one direct from you? I'm just wondering....]


Ummmm.... sorry? :blush:


----------



## thehatedguy

So what in the world does nexD consist of? I understand the single cycle control, but can't find a lick on nexD.


----------



## rain27

The XD700/5 is one sweet amp! Active crossovers, solid power, and tiny! JL continues to innovate like few others.


----------



## BoonDoggie

msmith said:


> Ummmm.... sorry? :blush:


 Hey, nothing life threatening, so no need for blush, just consider it active consumer response! You guys have always been great, I just wasn't too impressed with this rollout of product. Nothing worse than having cash and knowing somethings out there, but for some reason you cant have it...yet!


----------



## Yuck.

When does the "cute widdul guy" come out XD200/2 I assume?


----------



## fish

Yuck. said:


> When does the "cute widdul guy" come out XD200/2 I assume?


It's been out. Cheapest I've seen is $240 shipped from Sonix.


----------



## msmith

A 300W monoblock is next up (same size as the 2-channel). (200W @ 4 ohms, 300W @ 2 ohms). Should ship in late December.

Then, in early 2011 the XD500/3 three-channel (2x75W+1x180W @ 4 ohms / 2x100W+1x300W @ 2 ohms). This one will be the same size as the 4-ch.


----------



## chops

msmith said:


> A 300W monoblock is next up (same size as the 2-channel). (200W @ 4 ohms, 300W @ 2 ohms). Should ship in late December.
> 
> Then, in early 2011 the XD500/3 three-channel (2x75W+1x180W @ 4 ohms / 2x100W+1x300W @ 2 ohms). This one will be the same size as the 4-ch.


aw man...if i had known that i would've waited! i just purchased the XD400 for my 370z and chose my comps/sub based on the power offered by the XD400. a little louder with the coming soon XD500 wouldnt have hurt :laugh:

quick question...there doesnt seem to be much information about the XD series on the net, aside from this thread, so i was a little hesitant on purchasing this, but are the XD's known to be a little underrated or so? that would definitely ease my buyers remorse for not getting that extra 100w with the upcoming XD500


----------



## ItalynStylion

Finally someone gets smart and builds another three channel amp. I've been saying it for years. (as young as I am)

Component set, sub...done...perfect


----------



## subwoofery

thehatedguy said:


> So what in the world does nexD consist of? I understand the single cycle control, but can't find a lick on nexD.


Bump for an answer... 

Kelvin


----------



## msmith

subwoofery said:


> Bump for an answer...
> 
> Kelvin


NexD is simply our tradename for our non-Single-Cycle Control Class D technologies. It is a more basic, less parts-intensive approach than the one used on the HD amps. Despite this simplicity, the net result is very, very good.

The monoblock subwoofer models use a high-speed version of NexD, switching at about 240 kHz with a fixed frequency PWM and post-filter feedback. The switching speed is about four times faster than the old Slash Class D design and allows for a lot of parts to become smaller. This, combined with advances in components (like DPAK surface-mount MOSFETS, for example) allow the design to be more efficient and physically compact.

The full-range channels use an ultra-high speed NexD design switching at upwards of 400 kHz. Instead of a fixed PWM, these apply a self-oscillating modulator that uses feedforward, in effect sending information about the instantaneous power supply voltage to the modulator, combining this with the input signal to cancel out distortion due to supply variation, so you get less distortion before you add feedback. As a consequence, switching frequency as well as pulse width varies with the audio signal. No post-filter feedback is used, which reduces parts count and complexity, but makes the design of the output filters a pretty critical factor in the success of the design.

Hope that helps,

-Manville


----------



## cnut334

What will be the price for the 3-channel? I was going to get the 400/4 but the 3ch will fit my needs.
Thanks,
Marcus


----------



## katodevin

Not to kiss your ass Manville, but thank you for your participation here on this board. I, for one, really appreciate the depth and color you're able to provide about some of what would otherwise be viewed as "marketing hype". Whereas other companies just come up with catchy names/phrases for features, you help understand what's acutally behind this.


----------



## msmith

cnut334 said:


> What will be the price for the 3-channel? I was going to get the 400/4 but the 3ch will fit my needs.
> Thanks,
> Marcus


US MSRP is $459.95
Dealers set actual selling price, of course.


----------



## msmith

katodevin said:


> Not to kiss your ass Manville, but thank you for your participation here on this board. I, for one, really appreciate the depth and color you're able to provide about some of what would otherwise be viewed as "marketing hype". Whereas other companies just come up with catchy names/phrases for features, you help understand what's acutally behind this.


I appreciate the kind words, katodevin. Thanks.


----------



## trojan fan

What is new product wise for JL AUDIO this year?


----------



## BlueAc

trojan fan said:


> What is new product wise for JL AUDIO this year?


Yeah... inquiring minds wanna know!


----------



## msmith

We'll be introducing a bunch of new products throughout the year. 

First up in February will be the XD500/3 three channel amp (2x75+1x180W at 4 ohms, 2x100W+1x300W at 2 ohms). 

The HD1200/1 will finally ship in February as well! Really!

Also in February, we will introduce a 10th Anniversary Edition of the W7 subwoofers (all sizes), with black baskets, a shinier clamp ring and special badging... they look pretty mean. These will replace the standard W7's for 2011. Functionally, they are no different than the existing W7's. I've posted some pics of these on our Facebook page already.

There will be a series of interesting woofer introductions later this year... but that's all I can say about that right now.


----------



## fjp2010

Hello Manville:

I'm trying to decide between the HD900/5 & XD700/5, price is my limiting factor.
Recently I've read a bit about "damping factor" and I'm begining to understand it better.
Can the difference in "damping factor" between the two amps be something one can hear??

Regards,
J.P.
NYC


----------



## chops

msmith said:


> We'll be introducing a bunch of new products throughout the year.
> 
> First up in February will be the XD500/3 three channel amp (2x75+1x180W at 4 ohms, 2x100W+1x300W at 2 ohms).
> 
> .


interesting...considering the XD400/4 does 2 x 200w at 4ohm


----------



## cnut334

msmith said:


> US MSRP is $459.95
> Dealers set actual selling price, of course.


Thanks!


----------



## kvndoom

chops said:


> interesting...considering the XD400/4 does 2 x 200w at 4ohm


You could always bridge it to 1x200 + 1x300... :idea:


----------



## ecbmxer

fjp2010 said:


> Hello Manville:
> 
> I'm trying to decide between the HD900/5 & XD700/5, price is my limiting factor.
> Recently I've read a bit about "damping factor" and I'm begining to understand it better.
> Can the difference in "damping factor" between the two amps be something one can hear??
> 
> Regards,
> J.P.
> NYC


I'm also considering both of these amps. I've heard good things about both. SQ wise, how do they compare? I'd love to get the HD, but not sure I can afford it right now. Does the HD still make the same power on the full range channels at 8 ohms as 4 ohms?


----------



## msmith

ecbmxer said:


> I'm also considering both of these amps. I've heard good things about both. SQ wise, how do they compare? I'd love to get the HD, but not sure I can afford it right now. Does the HD still make the same power on the full range channels at 8 ohms as 4 ohms?


I wouldn't worry too much about damping factor.

At 8 ohms, HD channels make 1/2 the power they make at 4 ohms. They are designed to produce the same power from 1.5 - 4 ohms.


----------



## fjp2010

Hmmm. That doesn't help much, still not sure how they compare?? (xd700/5 vs. HD900/5) Maybe a Mac amp is a better SQ direction....

jp.


----------



## HondAudio

ItalynStylion said:


> Finally someone gets smart and builds another three channel amp. I've been saying it for years. (as young as I am)
> 
> Component set, sub...done...perfect


*dons fireproof suit*
Assuming, of course, that the component set in question can extend low enough to cross over to the sub at a point where bass can't be localized...
*ducks*


----------



## HondAudio

msmith said:


> We'll be introducing a bunch of new products throughout the year.
> 
> First up in February will be the XD500/3 three channel amp (2x75+1x180W at 4 ohms, 2x100W+1x300W at 2 ohms).
> 
> The HD1200/1 will finally ship in February as well! Really!
> 
> Also in February, we will introduce a 10th Anniversary Edition of the W7 subwoofers (all sizes), with black baskets, a shinier clamp ring and special badging... they look pretty mean. These will replace the standard W7's for 2011. Functionally, they are no different than the existing W7's. I've posted some pics of these on our Facebook page already.
> 
> There will be a series of interesting woofer introductions later this year... but that's all I can say about that right now.


Any thoughts on bringing back the dual-6 ohm W6s? Having 3 subs on a single bridged channel blew my mind back when I was in high school


----------



## W8 a minute

I don't know if this was covered in the thread but I was kind of disappointed to find this in the instructions of my XD700/5.



> To operate a single XD700/5 in Tri-Amplified mode, set the “Input Mode” switch in “2 Ch.” mode, and apply a single set of stereo inputs to the Ch. 1 & 2 Inputs only!


No time alignment allowed. 

I was hoping to run all 6 outputs of my PRS-880 to the amp, let the head unit do the time alignment and let the amp do the crossover functions. This way if the head unit dumps it's settings my drivers are still protected by the amps crossovers.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Their triamplified mode refers to when you only have a stereo outputs and you want to feed all 6 channels with it. If you want it to be a 6 channel in/6 channel amped out setup, then you set it to 6 channels on the input mode.


----------



## trojan fan

W8 a minute said:


> I don't know if this was covered in the thread but I was kind of disappointed to find this in the instructions of my XD700/5.
> 
> 
> 
> No time alignment allowed.
> 
> I was hoping to run all 6 outputs of my PRS-880 to the amp, let the head unit do the time alignment and let the amp do the crossover functions. This way if the head unit dumps it's settings my drivers are still protected by the amps crossovers.[/QU
> 
> 
> I see what you are talking about, to use the band pass xover you need to have it set to the 2ch. position. I wonder why it's designed like that. Call JL, maybe there is a way around it, maybe a deal breaker for some


----------



## Booger

wonk wonk.....


----------



## W8 a minute

t3sn4f2 said:


> Their triamplified mode refers to when you only have a stereo outputs and you want to feed all 6 channels with it. If you want it to be a 6 channel in/6 channel amped out setup, then you set it to 6 channels on the input mode.


They are referring to what we call an "active" system. From the JL user manual:



> Tri-Amplified Systems with one XD700/5
> The XD700/5’s 3-way crossover capability allows you to create true, tri-amplified systems by selecting the appropriate settings described below.
> In a tri-amplified configuration, the Subwoofer Channel of the XD700/5 will drive a subwoofer system, in mono, with low-pass filtering. Channels 3 & 4 will drive component woofers (or mid-range speakers) in stereo with bandpass filtering (both a high-pass and a low-pass filter applied). Channels 1 & 2 will drive high-frequency speakers (tweeters, typically), in stereo, with high-pass filtering.


----------



## W8 a minute

Despite my one gripe about the amplifier I simply can't find fault with it's sound. I'm a very happy person right now.


----------



## kingchris20

Hey! New forum-goer here and I have a quick question. 

I went to my local sound store back in August and I got 2 JL Audio 12W1 and a nice ported box, but I didn't have the money to upgrade my amp (which was a Memphis 500), well a couple days ago I got the money to get the JL Audio XD600/1 at the suggestion of the local sound store's manager. They tuned the amp, and less than a day later the subs coil was burnt up. I took it back and they replaced the subs with new ones and turned the gain down. 

Now to my question - given that this amp burnt up my 12W1s last time, is the amp too powerful for these subs? Should I upgrade to the 12W3s? 

I ran the Memphis 500 for 6 months with no problems at all, and as soon as the JL XD600 comes in, they burn up. 

Suggestions? 

Oh BTW, the JL XD600 sounds soooo much better than the Memphis, much tighter sound and hits lower notes much better! Happy with the amp, just worried about having to be too careful with the 12W1s....


----------



## quality_sound

My bet is they have a bass boost, eq, or loudness turned WAY up and that's what caused it.


----------



## kingchris20

Thanks for the reply! I am not real sure about any bass boost, eq, or loudness. I wonder though about having too much power to these 12W1s. I usually do not question my sound guy's recommendations, but I was looking at an RMS power chart at the JL Audio website (I would post the link, but apparently I cant), and the 12W1s show that the warranty becomes void when more than 250w RMS are being sent to each sub. I believe with the XD600, each speaker is getting about 300w RMS. 

I then looked at the 12W3s and they are said to perform "optimally" with 300w RMS per sub, which seems to be perfect for my amp. In fact they can handle up to 500w RMS to each sub, but the chart says 300w RMS is optimal. 

I am really new to this stuff, and I am wondering if my math is accurate, or if there is something I am leaving out. So, according to the power chart, I should be using 12W3s with the amp, but according to my sound store guy, I should be using 12W1s with that amp.


----------



## fish

That amp is fine for those subs. They're not seeing the full 600 watts.


----------



## kingchris20

How many watts do you think it actually puts out? And do you think the 12w3s would be the better option?


----------



## PPI_GUY

Just wanted to jump in here and add my own amateur review of the XD600/1. I auditioned it this morning on two JL 12W0.V2 subs and to put it bluntly, I was speechless. Having heard some complaints about other class D amplifiers and how they fall on their face on subwoofer duty, I expected just that from the XD600/1. Not only did the little amp pound the two 12's but, it did it without distortion and with impact...all from a TINY footprint of an amp. After several repeated cycles thru moderate to loud volume levels, on various types of music, I placed my hand on the tiny heatsink expecting it to be quite hot. It was only just warm.
I have been an old school car audio guy for years and have enjoyed poking fun at alot of 'new' equipment that was supposed to be the next best thing. After the fun I had with the little 600 watt job this morning, I have to say that the XD series (atleast the sub amp) is the real deal and I will be picking one up very soon.

By the way Manville, just how much under-rated is the XD600/1?


----------



## [email protected]

^ its prob not underrated at all. JL doesnt underrate their products.


----------



## kingchris20

That is so strange, I have the xd600 and it keeps trying to burn up my 2 jLaudio 12w1s! I'm thinking of movin up to the 12w3s because of it, although buying 2 w3s is like buying 4 w1s in terms of price  

I've gained down the amp and turned the settings on my HU down to a point the subs barely sound like they are there, if I turn it up any louder, the coils in the sub start trying to burn up, they did burn up my first pair, these are the second pair and the same thing is happening! I think my only option left is to go up to the w3's ....


----------



## msmith

Thanks for the props, PPI_GUY... you'll be happy to know that the XD600/1 is a Bruce Macmillan design, just like the old PPI amps in the early 90's, including the ProMOS-50 in your Avatar.

A typical XD600/1 will put out about 670W at 2 ohms (14.4V, 1% THD). and approximately 440W @ 4 ohms. We don't play weird games with power ratings.


----------



## msmith

kingchris20 said:


> That is so strange, I have the xd600 and it keeps trying to burn up my 2 jLaudio 12w1s! I'm thinking of movin up to the 12w3s because of it, although buying 2 w3s is like buying 4 w1s in terms of price
> 
> I've gained down the amp and turned the settings on my HU down to a point the subs barely sound like they are there, if I turn it up any louder, the coils in the sub start trying to burn up, they did burn up my first pair, these are the second pair and the same thing is happening! I think my only option left is to go up to the w3's ....


The w3v3 is a much better choice with 300W of power than the 12W1v2, which is operating in its 'danger zone' at that power level. If you like it loud, the W3v3's will serve you much better.


----------



## kingchris20

@JLAudioGuy that's exactly the info I was looking for! Thanks for the reply!


----------



## kingchris20

Wow!! went out and got the 12W3s and that super bass probox running on the XD 600/1, after it was installed the guy at the store put the meter in there and it hit 141! Very nice setup!


----------



## caraudioguy

....


----------



## W8 a minute

PPI_GUY said:


> After several repeated cycles thru moderate to loud volume levels, on various types of music, I placed my hand on the tiny heatsink expecting it to be quite hot. It was only just warm.
> I have been an old school car audio guy for years and have enjoyed poking fun at alot of 'new' equipment that was supposed to be the next best thing.
> 
> I have to say that the XD series (atleast the sub amp) is the real deal


I can say the same about the 700/5. It's doing everything it's supposed to be doing and doing it brilliantly. I purposely abused this thing for an hour at full tilt and I could place my hand right on the heatsink. Barely warm. 

My only complaint is that this will hurt the resale value of my old school gear.


----------



## PPI_GUY

I'm not quite ready to sell my old school gear yet. I guess I am still holding onto it for some sentimental reasons. Also, the stuff I have is so hard to find, if I ever sold it, it would take awhile (and alot of $$$) to find it again. 
I did buy a XD400/4 on Friday. It will ship on Monday and I am looking forward to playing with it. If it works out as I expect it will, I'll then pickup a 600/1. I'll post my impressions of the 400/4 here when I get time(and warm weather) to install it.


----------



## HondAudio

PPI_GUY said:


> I'm not quite ready to sell my old school gear yet. I guess I am still holding onto it for some sentimental reasons. Also, the stuff I have is so hard to find, if I ever sold it, it would take awhile (and alot of $$$) to find it again.
> I did buy a XD400/4 on Friday. It will ship on Monday and I am looking forward to playing with it. If it works out as I expect it will, I'll then pickup a 600/1. I'll post my impressions of the 400/4 here when I get time(and warm weather) to install it.


Speaking as an owner of six "vintage" PPI pieces from the Art Series .2... I will also not part with my gear any time soon. I'm saving it until I have a larger vehicle to work with, then I'll probably go all-out with the liquid cooling and everything


----------



## rcurley55

Manville - quick question. On the original XD amplifiers (600/6, 400/4, 600/1) the photos on your website show one style of connector. On the newer amps (700/5, 200/2, 300/1) the photos depict a second style.

Are the production units all identical in type of connector? Totally random question - just wondering.


----------



## msmith

rcurley55 said:


> Manville - quick question. On the original XD amplifiers (600/6, 400/4, 600/1) the photos on your website show one style of connector. On the newer amps (700/5, 200/2, 300/1) the photos depict a second style.
> 
> Are the production units all identical in type of connector? Totally random question - just wondering.


Good eye... eventually all of them will migrate over to the newer square opening connector. This is a new connector design developed by one of our mechanical engineers that uses a flat clamp to squeeze the wire evenly against the bottom of the wire tunnel, as opposed to just pressing it in the middle with a screw. The new connector wasn't quite ready for the first batch of XD's so they use the older style, but the newer ones started out with the new connector.


----------



## fish

msmith said:


> Good eye... eventually all of them will migrate over to the newer square opening connector. This is a new connector design developed by one of our mechanical engineers that uses a flat clamp to squeeze the wire evenly against the bottom of the wire tunnel, as opposed to just pressing it in the middle with a screw. The new connector wasn't quite ready for the first batch of XD's so they use the older style, but the newer ones started out with the new connector.


When you say "eventually" how long do you estimate? I'm looking to get a 600/1 sometime soon.

Oh yeah, I thought I read somewhere that the XDs are stackable. Is this true?


----------



## msmith

fish said:


> When you say "eventually" how long do you estimate? I'm looking to get a 600/1 sometime soon.
> 
> Oh yeah, I thought I read somewhere that the XDs are stackable. Is this true?


I'm not sure on the answer to your first question, but I'll ask someone who might know and get back to you.

There are no stacking provisions built into the XD design, although you could certainly fabricate something if you needed to... just keep in mind the controls are on the top, so if you stack them it won't be too easy to make adjustments without taking the stack apart.


----------



## fish

msmith said:


> I'm not sure on the answer to your first question, but I'll ask someone who might know and get back to you.
> 
> There are no stacking provisions built into the XD design, although you could certainly fabricate something if you needed to... just keep in mind the controls are on the top, so if you stack them it won't be too easy to make adjustments without taking the stack apart.


Thanks, I appreciate you looking into that.

That makes since why they don't stack like the HDs & Slash. :blush:


----------



## msmith

The word is that all present and future production has the new connectors, but we move the old stock out first, so it may take a month or two for all the old-style connectors to ship out to dealers (and we can't know how long an amp has been on a dealer shelf). Best bet is to look for more recent production dates and take a peek inside if you have to have the new connectors on your XD400/4, XD600/6 and XD600/1. All the other models use the newer connector from the start.


----------



## HondAudio

msmith said:


> The word is that all present and future production has the new connectors, but we move the old stock out first, so it may take a month or two for all the old-style connectors to ship out to dealers (and we can't know how long an amp has been on a dealer shelf). Best bet is to look for more recent production dates and take a peek inside if you have to have the new connectors on your XD400/4, XD600/6 and XD600/1. All the other models use the newer connector from the start.


Manville-

I bought an XD600/6 in early December. It has the "old-style" connectors. Since the redesign is to better hold the wires within the terminal, would some wire ferrules provide any benefit to me, in lieu of the newer terminals?


----------



## msmith

I really wouldn't worry too much if you have the "old" connectors... they work just fine, and we've been using them on Slash, e-series and g-series amps for many years without issues. They accept bare wire just fine as long as you're careful about putting the wire into the hole and holding it while you tighten. 

The new ones are definitely a refinement and they capture smaller wires better, but it's not a huge deal.


----------



## designerfh

Any chance of a 3 channel full range? With a few systems I'm trying to plan out it seems like I'm either bridging two channels and feeding a center a ton of power, or I'm not utilizing one channel to keep from overpowering it. Maybe a 3x75?

Or is there a combo I'm not seeing? Assume L/R mid basses in doors, L/C/R highs, L/R rears.. Feed mid basses twice the power as the rest. Sub would be a big mono amp.


----------



## azngotskills

It wouldnt make any sense to make and equal power 3ch IMO....maybe a 5.1 amp though? What about bridging a XD600/6 for 3ch power?


----------



## designerfh

Makes perfect sense to me. 

I don't want to run 200 watts to a 3 or 4 inch speaker. Little too much headroom and $ to push 3 small speakers. 

Edit: I'd be more inclined to use 3 channels from an XD400/4 and leave one unused.


----------



## azngotskills

designerfh said:


> Makes perfect sense to me.
> 
> I don't want to run 200 watts to a 3 or 4 inch speaker. Little too much headroom and $ to push 3 small speakers.
> 
> Edit: I'd be more inclined to use 3 channels from an XD400/4 and leave one unused.


It make sense to you and a few people in a similar situation, but in the overall picture i wouldnt think there would be enough profit margin/market for JL to go that route


----------



## designerfh

A year ago, I'd agree with you. Lots more 5.1 systems are coming stock in cars now, plus with the MS8, might be some growth there. Both my brother's 2006 miata and his 2008 g35 have small center channels, and I have an MS8 I'd like to install as soon as I find an amp collection that that works neatly.


----------



## subwoofery

designerfh said:


> Any chance of a 3 channel full range? With a few systems I'm trying to plan out it seems like I'm either bridging two channels and feeding a center a ton of power, or I'm not utilizing one channel to keep from overpowering it. Maybe a 3x75?
> 
> Or is there a combo I'm not seeing? Assume L/R mid basses in doors, L/C/R highs, L/R rears.. Feed mid basses twice the power as the rest. Sub would be a big mono amp.


Just look on eBay for some old school 6 channels goodness. Something like 6 x 40rms @ 2 ohm will do 3 x 80rms @ 4 ohm. Shouldn't spend much more than $150 for a good quality amp. 

Kelvin


----------



## msmith

azngotskills said:


> It wouldnt make any sense to make and equal power 3ch IMO....maybe a 5.1 amp though? What about bridging a XD600/6 for 3ch power?


That would be 200W x 3 at 4 ohms... certainly a serious 3-channel! You can never have too much headroom.


----------



## designerfh

Yes, yes it would.

What would be neat is a modular amp. Single channel, single RCA input, gain control only, that can mount on a rail that distributes power/ground.. Pick and choose your config.. (5) 75 watt modules, (2) 150 watt modules.. Yeah yeah I'm dreaming..


----------



## quality_sound

designerfh said:


> A year ago, I'd agree with you. Lots more 5.1 systems are coming stock in cars now, plus with the MS8, might be some growth there. Both my brother's 2006 miata and his 2008 g35 have small center channels, and I have an MS8 I'd like to install as soon as I find an amp collection that that works neatly.


600/4HD and 900/5HD works very well for that. Bridge the channels on the 900/5HD and then you have (6) 150 Watt channels and (1) 500 Watt channel.


----------



## PPI_GUY

While a 3 channel full range might not be profit heavy for JL, perhaps a lower power, full range, single channel as an add-on to existing 2 and 4 channel systems might work? The XD amps have pre-amp outs that would work perfectly in this capacity. I can see such an offering being small enough to fit under the dash or inside the center console. 
Just trying to think outside the box.


----------



## msmith

designerfh said:


> Yes, yes it would.
> 
> What would be neat is a modular amp. Single channel, single RCA input, gain control only, that can mount on a rail that distributes power/ground.. Pick and choose your config.. (5) 75 watt modules, (2) 150 watt modules.. Yeah yeah I'm dreaming..


That was done many years ago by Canton (German company). It was a cool concept, but it failed spectacularly in the marketplace.


----------



## Q-Authority

msmith said:


> That was done many years ago by Canton (German company). It was a cool concept, but it failed spectacularly in the marketplace.


Good memory! I didn't really know what the op was talking about until you mentioned the Cantons. Yeah, those were a bit unique.


----------



## bhaycraft

I know this is probably apple and oranges but how would these sound compared to like a micro AB amp like massive audio NX4 or NX5 for example. Would there be any real difference at all Thanks


----------



## msmith

bhaycraft said:


> I know this is probably apple and oranges but how would these sound compared to like a micro AB amp like massive audio NX4 or NX5 for example. Would there be any real difference at all Thanks


I will put them against any amp, of any brand, any topology. There is no sonic 'downside' with these designs.


----------



## bhaycraft

Ok that was really my overall thinking as well. So now my next question is how is the sonic difference when compared at the HD series of amps. Or once again not a sonic difference but only the difference in regulated vs unregulated power supplies. I currently have one 600/6 and I am looking for more as I plan to run 9 channels plus a sub. I had a 700/5 but sold do to the fact I was worried about 150 watts for the 10 inch stealthbox.


----------



## bhaycraft

Quick question. New system 2010 Expedition 10 channels planning to combine One HD 900/5 and one XD 600/6 since there is no HD 6 channel unit. Sub portion of HD will power stealthbox for the Expedition. The rest of the HD will power 4-6 1/2" speakers. The 600/6 will power one 6 1/2" center channel and will be bridged and the remaining 4 channels will power 4-3 1/2" speakers. Any concerns I should have with combining HD and XD series amp and any different sound signature or other concerns I should have. Thanks


----------



## msmith

bhaycraft said:


> Quick question. New system 2010 Expedition 10 channels planning to combine One HD 900/5 and one XD 600/6 since there is no HD 6 channel unit. Sub portion of HD will power stealthbox for the Expedition. The rest of the HD will power 4-6 1/2" speakers. The 600/6 will power one 6 1/2" center channel and will be bridged and the remaining 4 channels will power 4-3 1/2" speakers. Any concerns I should have with combining HD and XD series amp and any different sound signature or other concerns I should have. Thanks


Shouldn't be an issue at all to combine HD and XD.

As for sonic differences between the two... not really an issue, either. I switched from HD to XD in my car and never went back. I noticed no drop off in sonic quality (now running an XD600/1 and XD600/6).


----------



## Neil_J

I recently upgraded my system to an XD700/5 along with 2 pairs of JL C2 5x7's, and a 12W1v2-4 (replaced an Alpine amp, 12W0, stock Ford speakers powered by Pioneer 25Wx4 head unit). I still can't believe how great it sounds. Zero noise, no distortion when turned all the way way up, and it barely gets warm. JL really did their homework on this little guy.


----------



## eggyhustles

Any more high powered 4 ch's coming out? I would love a small footprint that did 400 @ 8 ohms.


----------



## subwoofery

eggyhustles said:


> Any more high powered 4 ch's coming out? I would love a small footprint that did 400 @ 8 ohms.


Don't see that happening... Market for those is too small. 

Want 400 @ 8 ohm? Just buy 2 x JL HD750/1 - those are full range amps. Too expensive? That's why I said there was no market for those... 

Kelvin


----------



## eggyhustles

subwoofery said:


> Don't see that happening... Market for those is too small.
> 
> Want 400 @ 8 ohm? Just buy 2 x JL HD750/1 - those are full range amps. Too expensive? That's why I said there was no market for those...
> 
> Kelvin


Figured..one can dream right? :laugh:


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## sunsidemountain

Hey guys...new to the forum. This thread had a lot of great info! The sales guy in my area is big into the XD amps, but a little cooberration from you guys was helpful! I have a 2008 Dodge Megacab. It is a Laramie and I got it with "upgraded" audio (navigation and 7 awesome stock Infinity's...not!) I replaced my head unit last year with a Pioneer AVIC Z110BT. Love the HU, but the stock speakers/amp have to go. At the advice of above mentioned sales guy, I am going with a pair of Hertz HSK165XL's for front stage, a pair of the lower Energy line coaxial's for rear fill, and subs undecided at this point. I love JL's Stealthbox for a Megacab, but $1200! I know its worth it though, just a lot of cash. My sales guy is recommending 2 10w3's and an xd600/1 for my sub setup. 

So on to my question...my Hertz components want at least 150 wrms a side. The sales guy suggested bridging an xd400/4 and running my rear fill off HU power. For some reason I am hung up on spending this much money and running rear fill off of deck power. After reading here I am wondering about an xd600/6, bridging front four and running rear fill off 5 and 6. Any ideas or can I even do that? I should also mention that I have a brand new, boxed 450/4v2 that I originally got to run my mids/highs, but now with the xd's I am thinking about selling my 450/4. Sorry about the long post. Look forward to some advice. I also think its awesome we have a JL VP posting on here. I have been a JL fan and user for years. I should also mention that I have also thought about an HD600/4. My concerns here are almost double the cost, and I don't really want 150 watts to my rear fill. Which is what originally drew me to the 450/4. I still can use that instead of selling, but the sales guy really talked up the size and efficiency of the xd's. 

Thanks again for any feedback!


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## subwoofery

I'd either go with what your salesman suggested: XD400/4 bridged for the fronts, rears off the HU and XD600/1 for the sub(s) 
or do what you wanted: XD600/6 bridged for the fronts, channel 5&6 to the rears and XD600/1 for the sub(s) 

As for the subwoofer, I have a couple of suggestions... Try to do a search on the forum, there's a couple of internet brands and DIY drivers that are much better in terms of "bang for the buck" than JL Audio: Dayton, Stereo Integrity, Mach5Audio, Acoustic Elegance, Exodus Audio, CSS Audio, etc... to name a few

Kelvin


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## sunsidemountain

Thanks for the quick reply. So what would you do? I think I have made up my mind to sell my 450/4 and go for an xd for size and efficiency. Thanks for the info on subs, I'll check into those.


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## subwoofery

Since you don't have a _special processor_ that can steer the right signal to the rear speakers, I'd choose option 1: XD400/4 with rears off the HU 
If you want to know what I'm talking about, please do a search on "Haas Effect" on this forum... 

Kelvin


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## rob3980

Hey there is a guy on minneapolis minnesota craigslist selling his xd400/4 and xd600/1 for $400only 2 months old I was debating on buying them but I have a HD amp and am to ocd to mix the amps lol hit him up see if he will ship if not I'd be willing to get them and ship em obv u pay the shipping


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## sunsidemountain

I'll check it out, thanks


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## fish

Are you dead set on using rear fill? If you must, you might even consider leaving the stock speakers back there & use deck power on them.


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## sunsidemountain

Not dead set...kind of. I imagine about the only reason I want some sound in the back is for my kids to watch DVD's. My truck is a 2008 with only 13,000 miles on it, so about the extent of the driving is boating or camping. I have headphones, but if my kids bring friends I end up getting to listen to the movie. I am somewhat new to the idea of "rear fill". I have been noticing more and more though that I do prefer my soundstage in front of me.


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## billjohnson457

Hi everyone, new to the forum, love it so far.. anyway, I'm thinking about picking up a XD600/6 to run a set of HAT Imagine I61-2's active... I will be running 4 awg from the battery to < 3' away where I will split it into 2 8 awg (XD600/6 and in the future, probably a XD200/2) and 1 10 awg (JBL MS-8). 

Is this acceptable? I know the typical power wire size for 600W over 4' is 4awg, I would just hate to have to run a larger wire through the firewall.


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## t3sn4f2

billjohnson457 said:


> Hi everyone, new to the forum, love it so far.. anyway, I'm thinking about picking up a XD600/6 to run a set of HAT Imagine I61-2's active... I will be running 4 awg from the battery to < 3' away where I will split it into 2 8 awg (XD600/6 and in the future, probably a XD200/2) and 1 10 awg (JBL MS-8).
> 
> Is this acceptable? I know the typical power wire size for 600W over 4' is 4awg, I would just hate to have to run a larger wire through the firewall.


WIRE


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## billjohnson457

t3sn4f2 said:


> WIRE


love that site, didn't know about that page, thanks!


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## sunsidemountain

You should be fine with 4 awg to a distribution block...you shouldn't step down to 8 awg out of the distribution block. Stay with 4 awg to the amp.


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## kyheng

8AWG should not post you any problem... If the amp require 50A, you may only need 10-20A in actual.... So, no issue here...


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## Transfer Function

msmith said:


> A 300W monoblock is next up (same size as the 2-channel). (200W @ 4 ohms, 300W @ 2 ohms). Should ship in late December.
> 
> Then, in early 2011 the XD500/3 three-channel (2x75W+1x180W @ 4 ohms / 2x100W+1x300W @ 2 ohms). This one will be the same size as the 4-ch.


Hey Manville,

Any plans on releasing a three-channel HD amplifier? Perhaps half of an HD600/4 coupled with an HD750/1 in the same chassis (and maybe add in the parametric equalization from the Slash series)? Or would an HD900/5 with its 500 Watts of subwoofer power be as close as one can get?

I really like the design layout of the HD amplifiers. An HD amplifier can easily fit in the glove compartment of most cars and be oriented in a way that would provide easy access to the controls, while concealing the wiring. I don't like wires.


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## antikryst

Transfer Function said:


> Hey Manville,
> 
> Any plans on releasing a three-channel HD amplifier? Perhaps half of an HD600/4 coupled with an HD750/1 in the same chassis (and maybe add in the parametric equalization from the Slash series)? Or would an HD900/5 with its 500 Watts of subwoofer power be as close as one can get?
> 
> I really like the design layout of the HD amplifiers. An HD amplifier can easily fit in the glove compartment of most cars and be oriented in a way that would provide easy access to the controls, while concealing the wiring. I don't like wires.


interested in this as well. 3 channel HD amp would be really perfect for my application.


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## soloz2

My local retailer recommended I get an xd500/3 to install under the seat of my Subaru Legacy but didn't have any in stock that I could see. It would power:
CDT components up front (crave power)
10 Kicker s10d sub in the trunk. handles 350w

sound like a good match or will the amp be underpowered? I was previously running a Kicker zr240 on the components and a zr360 (750w+) to 2 s10d subs.


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## Jsracing

I would go with a XD600/6 or XD700/5 instead. Run the first 4 channels bridged to the components. Plenty of very clean power.


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## soloz2

I'll have to see what the price difference is. I'm on a tight budget right now.


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## soloz2

Is $350 a good price for the 500/3?


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## fish

soloz2 said:


> Is $350 a good price for the 500/3?



You can probably get it cheaper through Al & Ed's using their price match. Although, they did change it up to where they can't post up the different prices from other sites for comparison anymore. You have to email them. If you find a price cheaper than what they quote you can copy a link to where you found a cheaper price, & they should honor it, atleast they used to.

They're authorized too.


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## soloz2

I'll check it out. If the price is close I'll prob still buy from my local guy. I just need to sell my old school ZR360 powerhouse first. I hate to see it go, but I just don't have a use for it right now.


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## edouble101

msmith said:


> We'll be introducing a bunch of new products throughout the year.
> 
> First up in February will be the XD500/3 three channel amp (2x75+1x180W at 4 ohms, 2x100W+1x300W at 2 ohms).
> 
> The HD1200/1 will finally ship in February as well! Really!
> 
> Also in February, we will introduce a 10th Anniversary Edition of the W7 subwoofers (all sizes), with black baskets, a shinier clamp ring and special badging... they look pretty mean. These will replace the standard W7's for 2011. Functionally, they are no different than the existing W7's. I've posted some pics of these on our Facebook page already.
> 
> There will be a series of interesting woofer introductions later this year... but that's all I can say about that right now.


Where are they at?


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## Bluliner

Anyone here have some opinions on the XD500/3?

What I'd like to know is how this compared to the older e-Series JL amps. I thought those were f'n awesome even without the price. I actually liked those better than the Slash series amps. 

My biggest concern would be any sound difference between these new D-Class amps and a vintage Japanese ADS amp. I have a spare PQ20.2, but I don't have a spare x-over for it nor the room for one. 

I understand all the efficiency and size stuff; I just want to know if it has a nice warm sound w/o an EQ and if it has any balls...like the older E-Series stuff. The only somewhat local JL dealer is shark-tank and I want honest opinions/stories/regrets without the interference of spiffs and margin-based commission. 

System will be a beat-up set ADS 346is components, Eclipse HU, and probably a single W3 8 or 10. No EQ or processors...I want to keep this cheap & simple. 

Any thoughts? I've read this post and there wasn't much written about the XD500/3. That may be a good thing (no one complaining) or maybe it's too new and not enough has sold to get some real world A-B thoughts compared with previous equipment.


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## antikryst

Bluliner said:


> Anyone here have some opinions on the XD500/3?
> 
> What I'd like to know is how this compared to the older e-Series JL amps. I thought those were f'n awesome even without the price. I actually liked those better than the Slash series amps.
> 
> My biggest concern would be any sound difference between these new D-Class amps and a vintage Japanese ADS amp. I have a spare PQ20.2, but I don't have a spare x-over for it nor the room for one.
> 
> I understand all the efficiency and size stuff; I just want to know if it has a nice warm sound w/o an EQ and if it has any balls...like the older E-Series stuff. The only somewhat local JL dealer is shark-tank and I want honest opinions/stories/regrets without the interference of spiffs and margin-based commission.
> 
> System will be a beat-up set ADS 346is components, Eclipse HU, and probably a single W3 8 or 10. No EQ or processors...I want to keep this cheap & simple.
> 
> Any thoughts? I've read this post and there wasn't much written about the XD500/3. That may be a good thing (no one complaining) or maybe it's too new and not enough has sold to get some real world A-B thoughts compared with previous equipment.


the XD500/3 should be a good amplifier. looked at it since im shopping for a new one to power fronts and a sub so a 3 channel amp would be ideal. got excited when JL announced a 3 channel... but when i saw the specs... it was meh. not enough power. 

since you want cheap and simple... you can go for more power with a cheaper 4 channel... bridge the rears.

looks like modern class d amps are now making the ab vs d debate old news as all reviews of modern day class d amps show that it can compete with ab. but this specific JL amp just doesnt have enough juice.


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## subwoofery

Bluliner said:


> Anyone here have some opinions on the XD500/3?
> 
> What I'd like to know is how this compared to the older e-Series JL amps. I thought those were f'n awesome even without the price. I actually liked those better than the Slash series amps.
> 
> My biggest concern would be any sound difference between these new D-Class amps and a vintage Japanese ADS amp. I have a spare PQ20.2, but I don't have a spare x-over for it nor the room for one.
> 
> I understand all the efficiency and size stuff; I just want to know if it has a nice warm sound w/o an EQ and if it has any balls...like the older E-Series stuff. The only somewhat local JL dealer is shark-tank and I want honest opinions/stories/regrets without the interference of spiffs and margin-based commission.
> 
> System will be a beat-up set ADS 346is components, Eclipse HU, and probably a single W3 8 or 10. No EQ or processors...I want to keep this cheap & simple.
> 
> Any thoughts? I've read this post and there wasn't much written about the XD500/3. That may be a good thing (no one complaining) or maybe it's too new and not enough has sold to get some real world A-B thoughts compared with previous equipment.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/924997-post7.html 
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1197036-post161.html

Kelvin


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## Bluliner

subwoofery said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/924997-post7.html
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1197036-post161.html
> 
> Kelvin


Those links talk more about product mix & new tech than anything else. 

Basically, I'm wondering if someone replaced their old school amps with new XD's and how they liked them.


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## Bluliner

subwoofery said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/924997-post7.html
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1197036-post161.html
> 
> Kelvin


Those links talk more about product mix & new tech than anything else. 

Basically, I'm wondering if someone replaced their old school amps with new XD's and how they liked them.


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## subwoofery

Bluliner said:


> Those links talk more about product mix & new tech than anything else.
> 
> Basically, I'm wondering if someone replaced their old school amps with new XD's and how they liked them.


The e-series has been replaced by the g-series... 
The g-series has been replaced by the XD series... 

In the link provided, msmith explains why the XD is better than the slash-series (which was above the g-series)... 
For your information, the g-series is the e-series with more power technology hasn't changed from the e-series to the g-series... 

Kelvin


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## Jsracing

Bluliner said:


> Basically, I'm wondering if someone replaced their old school amps with new XD's and how they liked them.


Honestly, compared to my AB amps that are 10+ years old (well made and under rated amps) I can't tell much of a difference. The XDs are clean and have plenty of power, plus they run so much cooler than my ABs while being smaller to boot. A win in my book.
As a reference, I've had many brands including zapco competitions, xtant X-series, RFs, and more.


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## Bluliner

subwoofery said:


> The e-series has been replaced by the g-series...
> The g-series has been replaced by the XD series...


What does that have to do with how they sound or perform? It's an all new amp design - right? Where it fits in the pecking order of JL's amplifier lines isn't a concern for me. 



subwoofery said:


> In the link provided, msmith explains why the XD is better than the slash-series (which was above the g-series)...


Where? Did you post the right link b/c all I read about was different switching speeds for the D-Class mono amps and I'm not sure if that applies to the XD500/3 as it's a 3ch with full range on channels 1&2. All that was discussed was technology, which doesn't mean it sounds better, and parts used to make the amplifiers smaller, more efficient, more cost effective, and not suck. 

None of that, to me anyway, necessarily means that the new XD amps sound better/worse/different than any other JL amp. Taken at face value, it just means they have a lot of tech in them. If you 'assume' more technology = better sound/performance, then you've been caught hook, line, & sinker by a marketing department. There's plenty of amps out there with some cutting edge tech and some/many of those suck. The little full range Xtants, Rockford's Class BD, and those Alpine PDX abortions are 3 examples I have experience with and being extremely let down. (this was when they were new to the market)



subwoofery said:


> For your information, the g-series is the e-series with more power technology hasn't changed from the e-series to the g-series...
> 
> Kelvin


What the hell is "power technology"? And what does this have to do with the XD amps besides where they are in the cost lineup? E-series was updated and called G-Series, I get that. But if you read your own links where Manville Smith speaks of the new technology of the XD amps you come to the conclusion that these new amps were made from a clean slate instead of being an upgraded G-series. Nowhere did I find a reference to the XD's being an evolution to the G-series amps. 

Where any of the G-Series amps full range class Ds? The only things I can think of that these have in common with the XD's are they're unregulated and they cost less than the top of the line units. 

What I'm asking about is how they sound. Do they sound thin like some full range class D amps? Are the sub channels gutless? Do the crossovers bleed or are they still top notch? Has anyone replaced a pair of old school 2ch amps or a 4ch for an XD500/3? If so, how did they like the switch? 

The answers to those questions mean more to me than the witchcraft that goes on inside these amps. Tech babble is great "if" I can get an honest answer to "how does it sound?" at the end. I haven't seen that answer yet nor have I heard any horror stories (that's telling in itself).


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## Neil_J

Bluliner said:


> Basically, I'm wondering if someone replaced their old school amps with new XD's and how they liked them.


I've had my JL XD700/5 for about half a year now. I'm sure most people wouldn't pick up on any audible distortion, but I'm certain I have at this point. It's a nit-pick, but I swear I can hear intermodulation distortion when it's being driven to its rated power. Not at all pleasant like even harmonic distortion. I will be doing some double-blind amp testing in the coming weeks/months, and I'll surely eat my words if I can't tell the difference. I have the test equipment to verify the listening tests, too. Either way.. I would still say the XD series is a very good value for all but the most picky of SQ nuts.


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## quality_sound

There should have been a period between power and technology.


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## subwoofery

Bluliner said:


> What does that have to do with how they sound or perform? It's an all new amp design - right? Where it fits in the pecking order of JL's amplifier lines isn't a concern for me.
> Knowing JL's history and who's the engineer behind the NEXD technology, JL won't release something that performs worse than discontinued ones. The XD amps can only be better than the G-series.
> 
> Where? Did you post the right link b/c all I read about was different switching speeds for the D-Class mono amps and I'm not sure if that applies to the XD500/3 as it's a 3ch with full range on channels 1&2. All that was discussed was technology, which doesn't mean it sounds better, and parts used to make the amplifiers smaller, more efficient, more cost effective, and not suck.
> Switching freq is there to prove that technology continues to go forward. The high switching freq applies especially to the full range channels...
> 
> None of that, to me anyway, necessarily means that the new XD amps sound better/worse/different than any other JL amp. Taken at face value, it just means they have a lot of tech in them. If you 'assume' more technology = better sound/performance, then you've been caught hook, line, & sinker by a marketing department. There's plenty of amps out there with some cutting edge tech and some/many of those suck. The little full range Xtants, Rockford's Class BD, and those Alpine PDX abortions are 3 examples I have experience with and being extremely let down. (this was when they were new to the market)
> Just so you know, class D in itself NEEDS technology to perform as good by today's standards. It cost more to make a good class D amp than to make a good class A/B amp... Have I been caught by a marketing department? Hardly... I don't own any class D full range amp - yet am interested in studing more about the topology.
> 
> 
> What the hell is "power technology"? And what does this have to do with the XD amps besides where they are in the cost lineup? E-series was updated and called G-Series, I get that. But if you read your own links where Manville Smith speaks of the new technology of the XD amps you come to the conclusion that these new amps were made from a clean slate instead of being an upgraded G-series. Nowhere did I find a reference to the XD's being an evolution to the G-series amps.
> I forgot to use a dot (.) so the real sentence is:
> 
> 
> 
> For your information, the g-series is the e-series with more power. Technology hasn't changed from the e-series to the g-series...
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to me that you're just trying to take every single thing I say and turn it your way in order to discredit what I have to say.
> 
> Where any of the G-Series amps full range class Ds? The only things I can think of that these have in common with the XD's are they're unregulated and they cost less than the top of the line units.
> As stated earlier, JL won't release something of lesser quality when it's clearly replacing a line/serie.
> 
> What I'm asking about is how they sound. Do they sound thin like some full range class D amps? Are the sub channels gutless? Do the crossovers bleed or are they still top notch? Has anyone replaced a pair of old school 2ch amps or a 4ch for an XD500/3? If so, how did they like the switch?
> 
> The answers to those questions mean more to me than the witchcraft that goes on inside these amps. Tech babble is great "if" I can get an honest answer to "how does it sound?" at the end. I haven't seen that answer yet nor have I heard any horror stories (that's telling in itself).
Click to expand...

Apparently, nothing I can say will help you - just tried to help you with what I felt was important in understanding where the XD amps fit in the line-up. 

Ohh well. I'm out. 

Kelvin


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## Bluliner

Neil_J said:


> I've had my JL XD700/5 for about half a year now. I'm sure most people wouldn't pick up on any audible distortion, but I'm certain I have at this point. It's a nit-pick, but I swear I can hear intermodulation distortion when it's being driven to its rated power. Not at all pleasant like even harmonic distortion. I will be doing some double-blind amp testing in the coming weeks/months, and I'll surely eat my words if I can't tell the difference. I have the test equipment to verify the listening tests, too. Either way.. I would still say the XD series is a very good value for all but the most picky of SQ nuts.


I'd be interested to know if you can recreate what you heard in a controlled environment. Thanks for the input.


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## Bluliner

subwoofery said:


> Apparently, nothing I can say will help you - just tried to help you with what I felt was important in understanding where the XD amps fit in the line-up.
> 
> Ohh well. I'm out.
> 
> Kelvin


I think it's just a misunderstanding. I'm not purposefully trying to tear your argument apart, it's just I feel that while there may be a correlation between new/improved technology and performance, there doesn't always have to be causation. 

I remember how highly talked up the PDX amps were when they 1st hit the market. Lots of tech babble, size, efficiency...you know the drill. Hooked up a 4ch & 1kW mono in a customer's car and I couldn't believe what pieces of **** those things were. Sounded terrible and they were absolutely gutless. 

The specs and technology said one thing. My ears, and everyone else who heard it, said otherwise. 

...

Regarding JL selling something worse than the G-series amps; the XDs are tiny and efficient. To many, that's a whole lot better. But to say they're better just because they're newer is kinda...well...something someone would say if they're on the hype train. 

Grant it, I'm really skeptical of Class D amps b/c of my past dealings with them and I'm not going to embrace a product with open arms just because it's new. I've worked with JL products since the '90s and their Slash amps since they debuted. 

In all that time, JL has never made a bad product. However, they never made full range class D amps so I'm just asking for people's opinion on how they sound. To me, hearing about people's experiences with these amps and what they think of their sound compared to their old equipment is more important than how fast their switching is or how they fasten their mosfets.


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## Pitzury

Almost one year later what is the general opinion regarding the XD series? I have a Passat with 4pcs of 6.5" Bose woofers that came on an Audi, factory tweeters and a sealed 10W6v2 and cannot decide between the XD600/6 and XD700/5. Any suggestions which one to choose and maybe who has one for sale for a good price?
Thanks.


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## audio+civic

Neither one is really strong enouph to run a 10W6. They are both great amps.


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## Jsracing

Pitzury said:


> Almost one year later what is the general opinion regarding the XD series? I have a Passat with 4pcs of 6.5" Bose woofers that came on an Audi, factory tweeters and a sealed 10W6v2 and cannot decide between the XD600/6 and XD700/5. Any suggestions which one to choose and maybe who has one for sale for a good price?
> Thanks.


Both are great amps. Overall assessment: great sounding and extremely efficient. More efficient than other class D amps I have and tried such as the kenwood excelons.
As for which one, depends on whether you plan on going active later. I chose the 700/5ai knew I was going active eventually, which I did already. I don't know about not having enough power. I don't think the JL is any less efficient than my sub considering I'm tuning mine sealed in a small box and want low extension, a classic case for low efficiency, and our provides plenty of power. Measured power on ch 5 in a test I saw showed around 350W.


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## W8 a minute

audio+civic said:


> Neither one is really strong enouph to run a 10W6. They are both great amps.


Not true. My 700/5 can easily run a 10W6v2. The graph from JL audio supports this as well.

10W6v2-D4 - Car Audio - Subwoofer Drivers - W6v2 - JL Audio



> The 10W6v2 is best used with amplifier power in the 200W - 600W range and is optimized to operate in a 0.625 cu. ft. (17.7 l) sealed enclosure, or a 0.75 cu. ft. (21.2 l) ported enclosure


----------



## audio+civic

You are correct but it is always better to have plenty of over head. 300 watts is barely optimum. I work for a JL dealer and have the 700/5 running a 10w3. It does great but I really think he should be looking a 900/5 or better yet the 600/6 and a 600/1


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## metanium

audio+civic said:


> Neither one is really strong enouph to run a 10W6. They are both great amps.


I agree with this concerning 300W not being quite adequate for the 10W6V2. I would go XD600/1 for sure, having owned both the XD700/5 and XD600/1. For the 4 other channels, the XD400/4 would do just fine and is the same dimensions as the XD600/1, for a symmetrical look.

....AND, it's your lucky day! I have a mint XD600/1 for sale in classifieds.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/135201-fs-ft-jl-audio-xd600-1-a.html


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## quality_sound

300 Watts is plenty to drive a 10W6v2.


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## [email protected]

quality_sound said:


> 300 Watts is plenty to drive a 10W6v2.


I would agree


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## Pitzury

metanium said:


> I agree with this concerning 300W not being quite adequate for the 10W6V2. I would go XD600/1 for sure, having owned both the XD700/5 and XD600/1. For the 4 other channels, the XD400/4 would do just fine and is the same dimensions as the XD600/1, for a symmetrical look.
> 
> ....AND, it's your lucky day! I have a mint XD600/1 for sale in classifieds.
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/135201-fs-ft-jl-audio-xd600-1-a.html


I guess guys are waiting to see the outcome of this auction before making you offers.
I agree that an XD400/4 and XD600/1 combo would be somewhat better than just the XD700/5. The price would be however higher. And the 700/5 can be used in a tri-amplified system. And let's not forget that I have two boys 5 and 8 years old in the back and do not plan to go to car audio shows with them.


----------

