# Audiofrog



## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

Just curious to hear if anyone has opinions on Audiofrogs GB series? I recently picked up the GB10s and I was so excited to install them, and replace the tweeters from my Helix P235 set. I am not using the Helix crossover as the speakers are fully active driven by a Match DSP.

My first impressions were that the box was well packaged and came with a bunch of install gear. The speakers looked well built and girthy, but, I was immediately disappointed with the sticker that said Made in China, I think steam may have come out of my ears as I thought they were made in the USA.

I have had the GB10s installed for a week now, and I intend to remove them and put my Helix P235 tweeters back in. Maybe I was expecting results that were better than Audiotec Fischer since the cost was 2x, and the P235s came with 5.25" mids and crossovers.

Just curious to hear what others feel about the GB series. I may reuse my GB10s in another build or just throw them up on eBay. The relative value is just not there, and that damn Made in China sticker just irritates me as I know some 6 year old kid assembled the speaker in exchange for a bag of rocks.


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## Lou Frasier2 (Jul 17, 2012)

did you search?I ask because there are a bunch of threads about these speakers


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

Lou Frasier2 said:


> did you search?I ask because there are a bunch of threads about these speakers


I did and found a lot of older threads, so I was looking for some fresh options. If you have a link to a thread on this topic that stood out to you please share.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Your vey last sentence was quite offensive.

"Bag of rocks" Really!?!?


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

skrelnik said:


> Just curious to hear if anyone has opinions on Audiofrogs GB series? I recently picked up the GB10s and I was so excited to install them, and replace the tweeters from my Helix P235 set. I am not using the Helix crossover as the speakers are fully active driven by a Match DSP.
> 
> My first impressions were that the box was well packaged and came with a bunch of install gear. The speakers looked well built and girthy, but, I was immediately disappointed with the sticker that said Made in China, I think steam may have come out of my ears as I thought they were made in the USA.
> 
> ...


You should have said....

"Bag of rice"
Lmao


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm gunna just say it.. you're an idiot if you think being made in china is a problem. Audiofrog uses a very high quality factory with some vigorous quality control. 

Origin of manufacturer isnt the issue. It's the quality control standards that are put in place. I know of us based amp companies that have much high defective rates than Chinese made ones, same goes for italian, german, etc. Doesnt matter where it's made. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Shadow_419 (Aug 1, 2018)

SkizeR said:


> I'm gunna just say it.. you're an idiot if you think being made in china is a problem. Audiofrog uses a very high quality factory with some vigorous quality control.
> 
> Origin of manufacturer isnt the issue. It's the quality control standards that are put in place. I know of us based amp companies that have much high defective rates than Chinese made ones, same goes for italian, german, etc. Doesnt matter where it's made.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I second this. 
No one pays any mind that your newest IPhone or Galaxy is made in Asia, but grab the pitchforks if your speaker was produced there. Silly to the nth degree


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> I'm gunna just say it.. you're an idiot if you think being made in china is a problem. Audiofrog uses a very high quality factory with some vigorous quality control.
> 
> Origin of manufacturer isnt the issue. It's the quality control standards that are put in place. I know of us based amp companies that have much high defective rates than Chinese made ones, same goes for italian, german, etc. Doesnt matter where it's made.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


You misread my entire post. Relative value, the Chinese stuff should be cheaper since that is why manufacturing has shifted there. I'm not even arguing this topic as the topic was your opinion on Audiofrogs GB series, do you have one? How do you comp them with similar priced speakers?



Shadow_419 said:


> I second this.
> No one pays any mind that your newest IPhone or Galaxy is made in Asia, but grab the pitchforks if your speaker was produced there. Silly to the nth degree


No iPhone or Galaxy here - like Skize you MISSED the entire point of the thread...which was what is your opinion on AFs GB series? Do you have one?

If neither of you had comments I just assume you both agree that AF is way overpriced.


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## Petererc (Dec 28, 2016)

Come on man, you searched AF audio frog, the holy grail of car speakers. You may get lynched for talking bad about them here. I dont own them and have no plans to unless you give me yours. I just find it hard to believe you cant find a current review


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

Petererc said:


> Come on man, you searched AF audio frog, the holy grail of car speakers. You may get lynched for talking bad about them here. I dont own them and have no plans to unless you give me yours. I just find it hard to believe you cant find a current review


I guess this was the wrong forum to inquire about this. I do realize forums tend to have alpha members that control the sheep members, and it sounds like Audiofrog is just that. No different than Rancho shocks on the Wrangler forum or a JB4 piggyback tune on the BMW forums. Glad I know that Audiofrog falls within that bucket on this forum.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

skrelnik said:


> You misread my entire post. Relative value, the Chinese stuff should be cheaper since that is why manufacturing has shifted there. I'm not even arguing this topic as the topic was your opinion on Audiofrogs GB series, do you have one? How do you comp them with similar priced speakers?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And how would you know that they wouldnt be more if they were produced elsewhere? This entire post reeks of ignorance and absurdity. For the money, the GB line cannot be beat, period 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Shadow_419 (Aug 1, 2018)

skrelnik said:


> I guess this was the wrong forum to inquire about this. I do realize forums tend to have alpha members that control the sheep members, and it sounds like Audiofrog is just that. No different than Rancho shocks on the Wrangler forum or a JB4 piggyback tune on the BMW forums. Glad I know that Audiofrog falls within that bucket on this forum.


If you tuned the system after you replaced the tweeters and didn't like it that's fine. I don't use or promote AF speakers. If you don't think they're worth the price that's also fine. Just silly to sound like you feel ripped off because they're made in China. 
I've used speakers from all over. If it's a good design, made with quality materials, and has great qc control it does not matter where they are made.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

skrelnik said:


> I guess this was the wrong forum to inquire about this. I do realize forums tend to have alpha members that control the sheep members, and it sounds like Audiofrog is just that. No different than Rancho shocks on the Wrangler forum or a JB4 piggyback tune on the BMW forums. Glad I know that Audiofrog falls within that bucket on this forum.


I held off on responding last night, but...

You wouldn't have ruffled feathers if you didn't come off with prejudice statements based on where the speakers are made, "I was immediately disappointed with the sticker that said Made in China" and "that damn Made in China sticker just irritates me as I know some 6 year old kid assembled the speaker in exchange for a bag of rocks." Comments like this aren't a good look for anyone, they make you look really foolish. 

Ignorant comments like this make discussion fruitless, since you've already made up your mind. There are a lot of great speakers that are being over looked today because of AF's popularity, but the truth is, they are popular for good reason. They are very well made speakers. 

You can't be expected to know every member here, or their experience, but Skizer has probably installed, and tuned more cars with GB60's than you've had birthdays.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

gijoe said:


> I held off on responding last night, but...
> 
> You wouldn't have ruffled feathers if you didn't come off with prejudice statements based on where the speakers are made, "I was immediately disappointed with the sticker that said Made in China" and "that damn Made in China sticker just irritates me as I know some 6 year old kid assembled the speaker in exchange for a bag of rocks." Comments like this aren't a good look for anyone, they make you look really foolish.
> 
> ...


Idk man, with him still spouting that **** these days hes had to have had a **** ton of birthdays. He'll probably complain to his friends about this and how it used to be better back in their day lol

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## rayray881 (Jul 15, 2013)

I love lamp.


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## Jahuntley79 (Jan 5, 2020)

The only product from AF that I own is a GB12 and I love it. I like it so much that I've decided to try AF's GB60s over Dynaudio e650s (which I also have NIB). I'll happily update the post next week once they are installed.

To the country of manufacture comment, who knows how much the speakers would cost if they were made in the US with our higher priced labor. As long as the product is quality, I'm indifferent of where it's made and by who. 

Andy the President of AF is also worth a shout out. When I was deciding on an enclosure for the GB12, he answered my questions. I cant imagine the owner of most car audio companies taking the time to do that.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Op... Research Andy Wehmeyer. He's been a big contributor to car audio and forums in general... Including this one. He's top notch in his approach to people and product.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## Jahuntley79 (Jan 5, 2020)

I'm connected with him on facebook and he taught me something very elementary the other day. He could have easily and understandably told me to shove off, but instead he helped me out. Definitely a good person.


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> And how would you know that they wouldnt be more if they were produced elsewhere? This entire post reeks of ignorance and absurdity. *For the money, the GB line cannot be beat, period*
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Audiotec Fischer all day, all day long. For the money, a cheap pair of Polks or Kicker is a better relative value than these GBs.



Shadow_419 said:


> If you tuned the system after you replaced the tweeters and didn't like it that's fine. I don't use or promote AF speakers. *If you don't think they're worth the price that's also fine. Just silly to sound like you feel ripped off because they're made in China.
> I've used speakers from all over. If it's a good design, made with quality materials, and has great qc control it does not matter where they are made.*


Correct, after tuning and all, I don't think they are worth the price.

I never said I felt ripped off because they were from China. This Skize dude is skewering my comments. I was disappointed to learn they were made in China. When I think high end electronics, I think Germany or a small local shop. I really though Audiofrog made their speakers in-house, my bad for thinking that.



gijoe said:


> I held off on responding last night, but...
> 
> You wouldn't have ruffled feathers if you didn't come off with prejudice statements based on where the speakers are made, "I was immediately disappointed with the sticker that said Made in China" and "that damn Made in China sticker just irritates me as I know some 6 year old kid assembled the speaker in exchange for a bag of rocks." Comments like this aren't a good look for anyone, they make you look really foolish.
> 
> ...


To some degree I agree with you, if I refrained from using China would I have received honest feedback, IDK, hindsight 20/20.

Sounds like you gave a rationale and honest opinion, unlike Skize. Sounds like that Audiofrog is priced higher due to supply and demand.



SkizeR said:


> Idk man, with him still spouting that **** these days hes had to have had a **** ton of birthdays. He'll probably complain to his friends about this and how it used to be better back in their day lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


You are just a douche, plain and simple. Sorry that I hurt your feelings that I don't think Audiofrogs are anything to cheer about.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

skrelnik said:


> Audiotec Fischer all day, all day long. For the money, a cheap pair of Polks or Kicker is a better relative value than these GBs.


I said for _THE_ money. Kickers and polks dont cost 1700 for a 3 way set. What I'm saying is you can damn well bet that there is nothing in the 1500 to 3000 dollar price point that will touch these things in sound quality, output for a sound quality based speaker, ease of install, install flexibility, support, and more. 

Oh wait, they were made in china so nevermind. Get yourself some eminence speakers if that's how you feel about china lol

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

It’s rare for speakers not to be made in China. It’s just the world we live in. Can speakers be of high quality on come from China? Yes - I also believe where it’s made doesn’t determine the quality, it’s the company that’s name is printed on the box that determines its quality. 

I do agree with SkizeR & some of his comments, how you started this thread making comments about 6yrs old, bag of rocks etc changed where you wanted this thread to go. The thread shifted to you could of made up your mind before even listening to the speakers that you weren’t going to like them due to the made in China sticker. 

I personally hate seeing so much stuff produced in China, I go out of my way and sometimes pay more for a American made product If I can find it. Considering a JL sub/enclosure due to being American made vs other companies China drivers and enclosures. 

just because it’s made over there doesn’t mean it will be cheap both in quality & also price. 

personally never owned a Audiofrog product, one of these days I might give them a try due to how the majority of the time, they get great reviews. However with anything, it’s not for everyone and if you can’t hear the difference then don’t use it,


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Well, I guess that you learned a valuable lesson...

Do more of your own research BEFORE you decide to purchase anything. If you know that you will automatically not like and do not want any "Made in China" products (no matter how well they may or may not perform), simply do not buy them.

In the case of Audiofrog speakers, with a very simple Online search it is easy to learn that they are made in China. In addition to documentation, there are many high-quality photos that show this.

Chinese manufacturing in many industries is some of the finest in the world, whether any of us want to admit that or not.

Are they expensive? Yes.
Are they made in China? Yes.
Are they in the top tier of performance in their price category? Yes.

The last point above has been proven through both test measurements, listening tests, and reviews.

Will they perform and "sound better" to _you_ compared to your current Helix tweeters _in your current system and install_? Maybe not.

Whether or not you hear any differences in quality will depend on MANY important variables... Your particular install & system setup, your tuning capabilities, the quality of the recorded music that you use for your evaluation, the quality of your playback source, and the quality/health of your hearing, etc. Have you tested how well you can hear up to and above ~12kHz?

Are there better-performing tweeters for the money? Entirely possible. But IMO not by a significant margin when used in 95% of the car audio installs out there. And certainly not with the included installation options & hardware, in addition to having been specifically designed and tested for use in the harsh car audio environment. And not with excellent U.S.A.-based support.

I get it. You are disappointed that you paid so much money for a Made in China product and you can't hear any differences in SQ in your system.

But I assure you that it is not the fault of the GB10 tweeters in question. They are top performers regardless of price or where they were manufactured.

You honestly should have done more research and asked for reviews & comparisons BEFORE purchasing.


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

bbfoto said:


> Well, I guess that you learned a valuable lesson...
> 
> Do more of your own research BEFORE you decide to purchase anything. If you know that you will automatically not like and do not want any "Made in China" products (no matter how well they may or may not perform), simply do not buy them.
> 
> ...


Your response was sort of what I was looking for, not entirely, but I do thank you for it. I did learn my lesson and will be sticking with Audiotec Fischer going forward.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

skrelnik said:


> Your response was sort of what I was looking for, not entirely, but I do thank you for it. I did learn my lesson and will be sticking with Audiotec Fischer going forward.


I appreciate your openness to receiving constructive criticism. Though, I don't believe you should limit your choices only to Audiotec-Fischer. They make and offer quality products, but are certainly not the only player in the game.

Several other European manufacturers make very fine tweeters. Some of the better ones that are aimed towards use in car audio installs can be found in test reviews on the following website, conducted by one of DIYMA's moderators and long-standing member, "ErinH"...

Erin's Audio Corner - Drive Unit Tests & Reviews

Note that most of these will not have U.S.-based support, nor will they come with the plethora of mounting hardware/options that the Audiofrog GB10 tweeters provide.


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## tjk_bail (Feb 2, 2012)

...... I'm only reading this thread for the drama........


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

bbfoto said:


> I appreciate your openness to receiving constructive criticism. Though, I don't believe you should limit your choices only to Audiotec-Fischer. They make and offer quality products, but are certainly not the only player in the game.
> 
> Several other European manufacturers make very fine tweeters. Some of the better ones that are aimed towards use in car audio installs can be found in test reviews on the following website, conducted by one of DIYMA's moderators and long-standing member, "ErinH"...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post. I am always open to constructive criticism and new ideas and I'll check out the other brands in that link/thread.

Everyone likes different things for different reasons, including sound, brands, manufacturers, colors etc.


tjk_bail said:


> ...... I'm only reading this thread for the drama........ but have to say skreInik is one shallow, narrow-minded ass-wipe....


I hate internet trolls like yourself - go educate yourself on global economics, and while your at it, go f*ck yourself.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

skrelnik said:


> I hate internet trolls like yourself - go educate yourself on global economics, and while your at it, go f*ck yourself.


@tjk_bail's comment was pointless and probably deserves a wrist slap. There really is no place for personal attacks here. 

However, @skrelnik it seems that you should be the last person commenting on people needing to educate themselves on global economics. Especially when it comes to the specific industry of audio equipment. Your own posts in this thread make that abundantly clear.


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

rton20s said:


> @tjk_bail's comment was pointless and probably deserves a wrist slap. There really is no place for personal attacks here.
> 
> However, @skrelnik it seems that you should be the last person commenting on people needing to educate themselves on global economics. Especially when it comes to the specific industry of audio equipment. Your own posts in this thread make that abundantly clear.


Point out a specific, please?


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## schmittmj99 (May 18, 2014)

As it has been alluded to from a few other posters ... in addition to the design and build quality ... Andy is the reason that you buy Audiofrog.

When I was looking into what drivers to use, after getting things narrowed down from forum members, I was able to reach out to Andy directly and get quick replies (usually within a day, from a man as busy as he is), to even the most basic questions about his products.

I ended up getting a gently "used" set of GB15 tweeters off the forums to pair with my GS690s (have since purchased GB60s to replace, but haven't installed yet) and unfortunately had one of them start acting up on its own after 6 months or so. I reached out to Andy, explained the situation honestly, and asked if there was anything that could be done for it. I was prepared to send it in and pay for a repair, maybe get a small discount on a new driver, or maybe luck out and have it was covered under a warranty ... just something. Andy told me that the warranty really only would extend to the original purchaser (understandable), but even without me having solid purchase information, he said that he had just gotten a few GB15s in on refurb and he would test one and asked for my address. Two days later I had a new tweeter at my door. He didn't even need the old one back, so I have a fancy unique paper weight on my desk at work.

So again, Andy IS Audiofrog. He is approachable and helpful and stands by his products. I don't expect to have to use his support when buying his drivers, but it is an amazing reassurance to know that it is there, and that is worth a ton in my book. The only thing I wish for is that he made a shallow mount GB10 sub so I could be AF through in my truck.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

If you research audiofrog you'll see that Andy had a goal of a design+materials that could withstand the wide range of environments vehicles go through. Their pricing isn't just based on marketing. He worked at JBL and has a pretty good resume.

He isn't in the business of making money... He believes that he's in business because he has a quality product. Go read the audiofrog forums and you might pick up on his passion for quality and common sense.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

He isn't in the business of making money

Lol


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

skrelnik said:


> Point out a specific, please?


Any mention you made of China. And with that, I'm out. This thread is going nowhere.


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

rton20s said:


> Any mention you made of China. And with that, I'm out. This thread is going nowhere.


Of course you are that guy. You run your mouth and I ask you back up your point and you can't. So if I say the word China I am wrong, a racist, must be a 70 year old army vet. Get your facts straight buddy and then talk.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

I’ve got lots of experience with AudioFrog now. I started out with GB15, GB60, and GB12 in one vehicle and GB10, JL C5, and Sundown SD310 in another (see signature). Recently I picked up two sets of GB25, another GB10, and another GB12 because I have been so impressed with these drivers. I also have a decent amount of experience with, and have owned or still own brands like Focal, SB Acoustics, JL Audio, Image Dynamics, and others. I also work next door to a high end car audio shop called Sound in Motion and I’ve spent a fare amount of time in there auditioning Sinfoni and Dynaudio speakers so I have a good idea on how good those sound too.

Back over a year ago when I was contemplating which speakers to buy for my CX5 I was pretty sure I was going with Dynaudio and I almost bought them from Sound in Motion. I remember I had a break at work and walked over to Sound in Motion with the intent of purchasing Dynaudio and went in with my credit card in hand. I told the sales guy at the front desk I wanted to order Dynaudio and he told me he was in the middle of something (seriously this happened) so I walked out and thought about it some more. I had previously reached out to a bunch of forum members here and SkizeR was one of them. They all said basically the same thing but SkizeR has the most experience with all brands of speakers (he owns his own shop) so I listened to him when he told me to go with AudioFrog GB series. I’m so glad I listened to him because these speakers are truly awesome. They get insanely loud with unheard of low distortion and clarity and those GB60’s sound incredibly great.

I remember I went back to Sound in Motion a little while ago and he asked me which speakers I ended up getting and when I told him AudioFrog, he said to me “those are made in China so I’d be concerned about that”. I told him I wasn’t concerned because Andy Wehmeyer was the owner of which he knew who Andy was. I can’t remember where I read this now but (correct me if I’m wrong) Andy tried to find a US based company that would manufacture his drivers to his specifications and with his qaulity control measures according to his written specifications. He couldn’t find any that would do his entire line and since he had lots of experience dealing with build houses from China back when he worked for Harmon, he was able to find a build house that could manufacture to his high standards there. So think of the GB AudioFrog speakers like the iPhone. Expensive, everyone wants one, and an excellent well designed product that also happens to be made in CHINA.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> Idk man, with him still spouting that **** these days hes had to have had a **** ton of birthdays. He'll probably complain to his friends about this and how it used to be better back in their day lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Nick you r killing me....LOL!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

To be fair the speakers were a bit cheaper before the tariffs hit last year.

I dont really care for the gb 10s either. They roll off a little early for my taste but they are super clear. On the other hand I LOVE the gb60 and gb 10 subs.

The gb 10 is a very laid back tweeter compared to lots of others. They roll off fast up high even when on axis. Lots of people like this sound. I prefer beryllium tweeters myself. 
Beyond the speakers sound, Andy is awesome. Always helpful even when he shouldnt need to be and stands behind his products as well or better than any other company.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

drop1 said:


> To be fair the speakers were a bit cheaper before the tariffs hit last year.
> 
> I dont really care for the gb 10s either. They roll off a little early for my taste but they are super clear. On the other hand I LOVE the gb60 and gb 10 subs.
> 
> ...


They dont roll off up high. If you are experiencing this, its not the tweeter. Its either your measurements or just the car itself causing a cancellation. I notice this in a LOT of cars.

Unfortunately i cant find the GB10's measurements aside from the ones on audiofrogs website, but heres Erins measurements of the GB15, which would roll off earlier than the GB10. No roll off on axis






Audiofrog GB15 1.5 inch Dome Tweeter


Audiofrog GB15




www.erinsaudiocorner.com


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I use the same measuring equipment as almost everyone on this board. REW with a umik 1. I thought they were rolling off due to being so far off axis but them I bought pods and they still roll off the same. Same thing in my neighbors truck with another umik 1.


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## mikechec9 (Dec 1, 2006)

The dude asked a simple question regarding your own individual perspectives to see if he was missing something that might better inform his own. I would suggest we calm down and stop taking things so personally. I don’t see Andy on here having a fit because the gentleman asked a question. The very first thing we do is attack him with insults and aspersions? It’s the opposite of ignorant if he is literally asking you for information to better enlighten him. Or maybe there are members here who share his point of view. In which case they now have an opportunity to chime in as well. Regardless, literally, who assigns the policing detail here? And I found the comment regarding China less a quality concern and more of an equity/fair labor issue, one of which he is apparently reminded when he looks at what he finds to be a misplaced label. This forum has already taken a dump on itself of late. I would personally like it not to become the trolling sandbox that CA dot com once was...or maybe still is Lol. I truly wouldn’t know.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

skrelnik said:


> Of course you are that guy. You run your mouth and I ask you back up your point and you can't. So if I say the word China I am wrong, a racist, must be a 70 year old army vet. *Get your facts straight buddy and then talk*.


_rton20s_ is not "that guy". He's a very level-headed, neutral, and extremely knowledgeable long-standing member here that is the first to chime-in and contribute or share his first-hand knowledge and experience...w/o being a dick about it (unless it's absolutely justified).

And he is right. This thread is clearly going nowhere. :/ So I'm also "out" after completing this comment.

So, what _are_ the facts, skrelnik?

You set the tone and predetermined the downward spiral of this thread with your clearly derogatory and somewhat racist remarks regarding China and Chinese products in your first post. You simply would not have made _those particular comments_ in your first post if this were not true. There is no need for _rton20s_ to "back up" his statement.

If you feel that there is still valuable information and experience to be gleened from this site and its members and would like to continue with a good or better experience overall, it would serve you well to be less combative and just keep the "he said/she said" thoughts and derogatory remarks from making their way to the keyboard. Though AFAIC, you can do as you will in the "wild west" OFF TOPIC forum here.

I'm actually surprised that so many members here with quite extensive experience with the product and company in question have even bothered to share their knowledge and experience in this thread.

If after this train wreck you do stay and continue posting further threads with questions or viewpoints on other topics, don't be at all surprised if all you hear in return is crickets.

Most members are happy to contribute, but will not bother if this is the type of sillyness that will ensue and continue to be a regular part of the discussion.

I'm sure that you don't enjoy being verbally abused or attacked, and obviously no one else here does either, so let's all just forego that crap and focus on simply learning and/or contributing to this thing called "car audio" that we all love.

86


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

drop1 said:


> I use the same measuring equipment as almost everyone on this board. REW with a umik 1. I thought they were rolling off due to being so far off axis but them I bought pods and they still roll off the same. Same thing in my neighbors truck with another umik 1.


My Umik does the same thing. As does almost everyones cheaper USB mic. If you do a little search, you will see this is a common problem. My behringer mics on my mic array dont do this though


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

Yep, my UMIK-1 does the same thing - it's only good up to somewhere around 14k-15k if I remember correctly. Although, I can't hear anything up that high anyway, so don't stress over it.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

bbfoto said:


> I'm actually surprised that so many members here with quite extensive experience with the product and company in question have even bothered to share their knowledge and experience in this thread.


Defamation of character against Audiofrog and misinformation. Defending Andy Wehmeyer, his company, and his great products is why I posted my experience but also to show members that the vast majority of people who have experience with AudioFrog are very satisfied. Not everyone can be 100% satisfied and they are entitled to their opinion and I see way more good ones than bad.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> My Umik does the same thing. As does almost everyones cheaper USB mic. If you do a little search, you will see this is a common problem. My behringer mics on my mic array dont do this though


mare you using the standard umik or the calibrated one from cross spectrum


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Iamsecond said:


> mare you using the standard umik or the calibrated one from cross spectrum


Cross spectrum. All of my cheap usb mics do it, but my behringer mics dont

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Ok. I actually noticed that the other day when I was messing around with my tweets and I just thought maybe something was wrong with the mic or my placement. Interesting to know. Which behringer do you use?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

im also not 100% positive its from the mics. I also use a different software and measurement technique when using the behringers


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## schmittmj99 (May 18, 2014)

Is there any way to compensate for the mic "rolling off early" and not being completely accurate when tuning to a curve? At least with some form of auto-EQ (Helix, or REW filters) if the speaker is actually producing a different curve then what is being measured, is there a frequency that we should stop, or minimize using filters at and just let the speakers natural roll-off take over? Or since most can't hear the frequencies that are that high, should it just be more or less ignored or not worried about?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

schmittmj99 said:


> Is there any way to compensate for the mic "rolling off early" and not being completely accurate when tuning to a curve? At least with some form of auto-EQ (Helix, or REW filters) if the speaker is actually producing a different curve then what is being measured, is there a frequency that we should stop, or minimize using filters at and just let the speakers natural roll-off take over? Or since most can't hear the frequencies that are that high, should it just be more or less ignored or not worried about?


cant compensate for it if you dont know whats causing it.


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

It seems to roll off early regardless of the software. I had the same issue with REW and the Helix auto-tune, so I'm assuming it's just a limitation of the MIC hardware?


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

Not a problem for me I can't hear anything above 10k anyway !


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

jtrosky said:


> It seems to roll off early regardless of the software. I had the same issue with REW and the Helix auto-tune, so I'm assuming it's just a limitation of the MIC hardware?


I have heard from some that its from a cancellation due to reflection INSIDE the top opening of the microphone. See if it does it by pointing the mic right at the speakers


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## Lstruck (Sep 14, 2010)

If they're made in China, there will most likely be an identical cheaper alternative that uses all the same parts and build house.. Intellectual property means nothing over there.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Lstruck said:


> If they're made in China, there will most likely be an identical cheaper alternative that uses all the same parts and build house.. Intellectual property means nothing over there.


Not in this case. Not all factories are built on the same beliefs


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> Not in this case. Not all factories are built on the same beliefs


Being in the home audio side and having worked on getting speakers built, there are definitely better build houses in China. And unfortunately the better ones know it and their minimum order quantity (MOQ) is usually higher, which means each order is over twice as expensive as a lesser build house.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

Interesting that skrelnik's comments about Chinese-made speakers got everyone so riled up. Any time cheap labor is used to make items, the perceived quality is cheap. This happened years ago with Japan and Korea, although these days, those countries are considered top tier and no longer supply cheap labor. Not sure what all the anger is about, unless there's a bunch of Audiofrog owners in here who took offense. I personally don't have a problem with the quality of Chinese made items. They can be good or bad. But Audiofrog has definitely gotten a pass where other companies have and will not. It'll be interesting to see when Dynaudio is fully integrated with Chinese labor. Pretty sure it won't go over well (it already hasn't). Same goes for all other brands like Audison, Scanspeak, etc. The perceived quality will go down if those companies get sold to China.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I think the response in favor of audiofrog is moreso because Andy was very transparent about how he approached the manufacturing of his products. He admitted that U.S. companies visited would have a tough time keeping quality at the level he requested. In the end he had to look elsewhere. I can't recall the threads but he was very open about the struggles to find companies that could follow through. He spent a lot of time and money researching.

The biggest hurdle is that so many parts already exist. So the companies push you towards just grabbing designs off the shelf or using parts that are already available to Frankenstein your own product.

Andy wanted his exact design that required all new parts. That's a big commitment from both parties.

The hard part for consumers is deciding what you will or won't support.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Found an old response









Audiofrog manufacturer


but were not talking about years ago ;) I know.....did you read my statement? Most don't know they have modernized a lot of their manufacturing. You didn't experience the years ago part.....so I tried to make you understand why someone might think that. Someone your age might also think a car...




www.diymobileaudio.com







Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Hmmmm...don't believe everything you see in the news and everything you see stamped onto speaker cones, baskets and surrounds.
> 
> 
> I've been developing products for more then 20 years. I've worked with US factories, factories in Germany, France, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, South Korea, Vietnam and China. I can say without a doubt that you get what you require and the way one requires what one wants from a factory is with a spec, a testing spec and a process for verification.
> ...





Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

From what I have seen around here, the same people that "give Audiofrog a pass" would do the same for any other company. So long as they are up front about their production. Most of us now understand that geographic location of manufacturing does not control the quality of the product. The engineering, quality assurance/control and capabilities of the manufacturing facility determine how good a product can be. 

Where you won't see some of us "giving passes" is to brands located in countries where laws aren't as strict as the US in regards to labeling country of origin. Interestingly enough, some of those same companies making what I would consider to be false claims about where there products are made also tend to get a bit creative with published specs. Placing a completed product in a box is not production, just like two way Xmech is not one way Xmax.


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## jriggs (Jun 14, 2011)

For what it’s worth, I’ll add this thought.

I find it interesting that so many complain about human rights violations and cheap labor in China, yet turn a blind eye to the inequity, the human and civil rights violations, abusive labor practices, etc. that have been committed on our own soil for the past 400 years.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

jriggs said:


> For what it’s worth, I’ll add this thought.
> 
> I find it interesting that so many complain about human rights violations and cheap labor in China, yet turn a blind eye to the inequity, the human and civil rights violations, abusive labor practices, etc. that have been committed on our own soil for the past 400 years.


please enlighten us.

On second thought, don't bother.


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> And how would you know that they wouldnt be more if they were produced elsewhere? This entire post reeks of ignorance and absurdity. For the money, the GB line cannot be beat, period
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Just added the Micro Precision 5.28's, which are in the same price point as the GB10's. No comparison, they are in a different league than the GB10s. These were tested in the same exact environment, both with tweeter pods made by Valicar.

So yes, the GB10's can be beat at their current price point with these bad-ass tweeters.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

skrelnik said:


> Just added the Micro Precision 5.28's, which are in the same price point as the GB10's. No comparison, they are in a different league than the GB10s. These were tested in the same exact environment, both with tweeter pods made by Valicar.
> 
> So yes, the GB10's can be beat at their current price point with these bad-ass tweeters.
> 
> ...


I've used those a few times. They're ok. The Z and z studio are much better and those are maybe a hair better than GB10S? I've tested both back to back, along with scan r3004 and sinfoni tempo. If you purchased them, do it blind. Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> I've used those a few times. They're ok. The Z and z studio are much better and those are maybe a hair better than GB10S? I've tested both back to back, along with scan r3004 and sinfoni tempo. If you purchased them, do it blind. Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


The Z's are out of my ballpark, so I will never get to hear those unless my numbers come in. I only faux "blind tested" the GB10s with the Helix P1s and I liked the P1s better, they were more musical. I since have sold the GB 10s so I cannot blind test against the 5.28s, but I did blind test the P1s with the 5.28's and holy sh*t is all I can say, just so much better. So that leads me to believe I would have a similar feeling if I blind tested the GB10s vs the 5.28s. By faux blind tested I still know what speaker is where since I am the only one that can install them, but I make impartial decisions and admit when I am wrong. In this case I am glad I sold the GB10s, I made the correct decision, at least for the music I listen to.

Oh, and confirmation bias would have been me saying the AF GB10s were so much better than the P1s. I was disappointed with the GB10's from the get go, and admitted my mistake by purchasing the GB10s.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

skrelnik said:


> The Z's are out of my ballpark, so I will never get to hear those unless my numbers come in. I only faux "blind tested" the GB10s with the Helix P1s and I liked the P1s better, they were more musical. I since have sold the GB 10s so I cannot blind test against the 5.28s, but I did blind test the P1s with the 5.28's and holy sh*t is all I can say, just so much better. So that leads me to believe I would have a similar feeling if I blind tested the GB10s vs the 5.28s. By faux blind tested I still know what speaker is where since I am the only one that can install them, but I make impartial decisions and admit when I am wrong. In this case I am glad I sold the GB10s, I made the correct decision, at least for the music I listen to.
> 
> Oh, and confirmation bias would have been me saying the AF GB10s were so much better than the P1s. I was disappointed with the GB10's from the get go, and admitted my mistake by purchasing the GB10s.


Well, I've used all of the tweeters you have mentioned and the gb series is my go to for a reason 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

I really don't understand why people get bent out of shape because someone doesn't want to buy something made in China. In fact, we *used *to teach our kids we don't support communist countries for all kinds of good reasons. It has nothing to do with the quality of the parts/speakers. I have zero doubt the frogs are as good as everyone says. And Andy sounds like one of the best people in car audio. But don't criticize someone for standing true to their beliefs or opinions about not wanting to support the Chinese gov't. The OP stated he had high hopes until he saw the made in china sticker. He should have just stopped right there, sold them and got something else so his mind could be at ease. I suspect the GB's sound at least as good as anything else comparatively priced but I just can't buy them knowing I can get something else that sounds damn good and not made in China.


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> Well, I've used all of the tweeters you have mentioned and the gb series is my go to for a reason
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


and that is a-okay, just like whatever music you listen to, we all have different tastes, so in this case I would not say the GB10s are hands down the best tweeter in this price range, it's just not accurate.

I also wanted to get across to you that I wasn't against the speakers because they were made by the people in China, I wanted to get across I would have chosen not to purchase them and support the Chinese government since there are other options in this price range. I am not trashing AF by any means, just saying there are other options, and IMHO, better tweeters out there for the same price.



Patriot83 said:


> I really don't understand why people get bent out of shape because someone doesn't want to buy something made in China. In fact, we *used *to teach our kids we don't support communist countries for all kinds of good reasons. It has nothing to do with the quality of the parts/speakers. I have zero doubt the frogs are as good as everyone says. And Andy sounds like one of the best people in car audio. But don't criticize someone for standing true to their beliefs or opinions about not wanting to support the Chinese gov't. The OP stated he had high hopes until he saw the made in china sticker. He should have just stopped right there, sold them and got something else so his mind could be at ease. I suspect the GB's sound at least as good as anything else comparatively priced but I just can't buy them knowing I can get something else that sounds damn good and not made in China.


Yes, you get what I was saying. I gave the AF speakers an honest chance and was just not impressed, however, I am so far impressed with these MP 5.28s.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

I wish all reviews of products coincided with the person’s personal preferences. For example, I tend to like metal tweeters, whereas most prefer silk. The GB10 has been described as being too laid back for some. Perhaps that’s why some don’t like them. They may prefer an edgier sound. But just saying “this sounds so much better than that” without context I don’t find very useful.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

rain27 said:


> I wish all reviews of products coincided with the person’s personal preferences. For example, I tend to like metal tweeters, whereas most prefer silk. The GB10 has been described as being too laid back for some. Perhaps that’s why some don’t like them. They may prefer an edgier sound. But just saying “this sounds so much better than that” without context I don’t find very useful.


Weird, i usually see most describe them as a bit bright. But, this is because they are 6db more sensitive than the GB25 and GB60. Its intentional so you can adjust them to your liking with more freedom.

Reason #274 why fully trusting subjective reviews, especially from strangers on the internet, is ****ing dumb


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## TRUTHhz (May 13, 2020)

Patriot83 said:


> I really don't understand why people get bent out of shape because someone doesn't want to buy something made in China. In fact, we *used *to teach our kids we don't support communist countries for all kinds of good reasons. It has nothing to do with the quality of the parts/speakers. I have zero doubt the frogs are as good as everyone says. And Andy sounds like one of the best people in car audio. But don't criticize someone for standing true to their beliefs or opinions about not wanting to support the Chinese gov't. The OP stated he had high hopes until he saw the made in china sticker. He should have just stopped right there, sold them and got something else so his mind could be at ease. I suspect the GB's sound at least as good as anything else comparatively priced but I just can't buy them knowing I can get something else that sounds damn good and not made in China.


If you pay taxes or vote, you are supporting communists. Do you teach your children that?


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

we live in a global economy and manufacturing is all over the place. To be honest I dont even look at where something is made, i just look at the quality and performance. I currently work for a company that manufactures and distributes medical equipment. Right now, we dont have supply chain issues simply because most of our product is made in the Americas, both south and north. In our product line we usually have an A, B, and C option. For discussion, A is top tier and C is bottom. Most of the companies we compete against have the same structure even with Chinese production. I say all this to say, a company can get crap or incredible product made all over the world, including China. It really boils down to the QC and the willingness of the company to cut production corners and cost.


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## JustinG2020 (May 5, 2020)

How are the audiofrog 6x9's? I am thinking of putting some in my rear just to turn on when I have back seat passengers. speaking of rear fill, with a DSP can they be tuned to sound good for that little bit of rear fill ambiance, I know some guys say a little rear fill done right compliments the front stage system. Or would these not be the right type of speakers for that?


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

I actually REALLY like having rear speakers. I've tried all sort of combinations of band-passed, delayed, differential rear-fill, all sort of different volume levels, etc. I've found that I actually like just regular stereo rear speakers, lower volume, band-passed from like 75hz - 8000hz and "normal" delays (delays based on their actual distance). To me, it creates a "fuller" sound than fronts-only - but still keeps vocals coming from the windshield. Everyone is different though.

Regarding the AF 6x9's - I recently bought a pair of them for my front doors and actually found that I got slightly better performance from my CDT CL-69S speakers (slim carbon-fibre midbass 6x9s), which I paid $99 for brand new.  The CDT's just needed slightly less EQ. One thing that I did notice - the Audiofrog 6x9's are actually slightly bigger than any of the other 6x9's I own. They are a little wider in the middle. Hard to explain, but I could actually tell the difference just by looking at them next to other 6x9's. It also made the screw holes seem a little harder to get lined up. 

For what it's worth, I've been trying a few different CDT speakers lately. The last ones were their Unity 8.0 widebands (2" aluminum cone speaker with a freq response of 200hz - 33khz) - they sound really good (replaced my AudioFrog GS25 widebands). So far, I've liked every CDT speaker I've tried - and their prices are very reasonable, IMO. They have a speaker to fit every possible need - and they are made in the USA to boot!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

MindMatter said:


> Tonally, aren't the GB60's based off the revelators? I think I read somewhere that they were going for the sound of the revelators but wanted them to be more efficient.


No. The illuminators were used as a performance reference (distortion and linear xmax), which the gb60s outperform on paper, are better for a car environment, and are shallower. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

skrelnik said:


> Just curious to hear if anyone has opinions on Audiofrogs GB series? I recently picked up the GB10s and I was so excited to install them, and replace the tweeters from my Helix P235 set. I am not using the Helix crossover as the speakers are fully active driven by a Match DSP.
> 
> My first impressions were that the box was well packaged and came with a bunch of install gear. The speakers looked well built and girthy, but, I was immediately disappointed with the sticker that said Made in China, I think steam may have come out of my ears as I thought they were made in the USA.
> 
> ...


WTF is it with folks hang up on "built in China" Must be a Trump thing., It has nothing to do about the quality of the product IF you pick a competent build house. Quality can be better than built in the USA if the buyer specifies this.

The fact of the matter is that labor in China is still 40% lower than that in the USA, This does not translate to resulting product quality. Would you really pay $400 more for a set of speakers that were truly built in the USA vs. parts produced in China with the same quality / tolerances? If so good for you. You are the elite 0.5% For the rest of us I would rather spend my money elsewhere.

I work for a company that manufactures high reliability electronics globally. It never once crosses my mind that products built in China are inferior. Our decision on what plant to source (China vs. Romania vs. Mexico) is entirely reliant on shipping cost and logistics. Each plant can produce identical parts that meet the strictest quality standards.

Ge0


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

Ge0 said:


> *WTF is it with folks hang up on "built in China" Must be a Trump thing., It has nothing to do about the quality of the product IF you pick a competent build house. Quality can be better than built in the USA if the buyer specifies this.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that labor in China is still 40% lower than that in the USA, *This does not translate to resulting product quality. Would you really pay $400 more for a set of speakers that were truly built in the USA vs. parts produced in China with the same quality / tolerances? If so good for you. You are the elite 0.5% For the rest of us I would rather spend my money elsewhere.
> 
> ...


I purchased made in Germany tweeters from Micro Precision and tweeter pods from Valicar. Nothing from the USA and nothing Trump related.



MindMatter said:


> My argument here is... since it's being built in China even though they're using high-quality products and is well designed.. the gb60 should not be costing almost $900


Agreed, GB10s at $150-$175 would be a solid buy.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

MindMatter said:


> My argument here is... since it's being built in China even though they're using high-quality products and is well designed.. the gb60 should not be costing almost $900


This is a great point. It's also why I am not considering using them.

Ge0


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

Ge0 said:


> This is a great point. It's also why I am not considering using them.
> 
> Ge0


Blasphemy. You must be a Trump fan from Alabama if you are not going to use Audiofrog.


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## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

Ge0 said:


> WTF is it with folks hang up on "built in China" Must be a Trump thing., It has nothing to do about the quality of the product IF you pick a competent build house. Quality can be better than built in the USA if the buyer specifies this.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that labor in China is still 40% lower than that in the USA, This does not translate to resulting product quality. Would you really pay $400 more for a set of speakers that were truly built in the USA vs. parts produced in China with the same quality / tolerances? If so good for you. You are the elite 0.5% For the rest of us I would rather spend my money elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Who said China made products are made to inferior standards?? I'd say JL, Audiofrog, etc are top notch products. But I'm not supporting a country that has concentration camps as we speak. And a gov't that kills more of it's it citizens yearly than all other countries combined for no reason at all.


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## deadrx7conv (Aug 25, 2010)

I thought the Valicar mounts were simply resold from Germany but bulk sourced in China from AliExpress or alibaba. Anyone check the Valicar-Stuttgart address to see if its a machine shop? 

I think the issue with made In China is the profit margin. So, I can find a local builder, make a fancy product for $700, sell it for $900, and make some money, or I can offshore manufacture it for $100 and sell at the same $900. This is a common talking point on "Shark Tank"..... cost of manufacturing and profit! 

I avoid made in China, when possible, simply because of the environmental pollution we offshored.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Patriot83 said:


> Who said China made products are made to inferior standards?? I'd say JL, Audiofrog, etc are top notch products. But I'm not supporting a country that has concentration camps as we speak. And a gov't that kills more of it's it citizens yearly than all other countries combined for no reason at all.


I still think China is hiding their true COVID-19 case count. They have one of the highest population densities in the world. You just don't turn off COVID-19 infection rate. I suspect they are incinerating anyone who tests positive to cover it up. "Oh, you have a fever you say. Step right this way..."

That of course was just a bad joke using inappropriate humor. Maybe...

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

deadrx7conv said:


> I thought the Valicar mounts were simply resold from Germany but bulk sourced in China from AliExpress or alibaba. Anyone check the Valicar-Stuttgart address to see if its a machine shop?
> 
> I think the issue with made In China is the profit margin. So, I can find a local builder, make a fancy product for $700, sell it for $900, and make some money, or I can offshore manufacture it for $100 and sell at the same $900. This is a common talking point on "Shark Tank"..... cost of manufacturing and profit!
> 
> I avoid made in China, when possible, simply because of the environmental pollution we offshored.


I think your example is a tad bit drastic. That same product could be made for maybe $550 in China. With shipping and import fees your end cost may be closer to $600. But, your point was taken.

Now, say you are an investor. One company makes products domestically and derives a $200 profit from each sale. The second company off-shores their manufacturing and derives a $300 profit from each sale. Say the products are equivalent in performance and quality. Where would you invest your money?

Then ask yourself, how much of that "made in the USA" product is actually made in the USA? Chances are many of the components are made in China or Mexico. The final assembly is only done in the USA.

It is a fact that the Chinese pollute the sh!t out of the earth. Ever watch a documentary about the amount of crap they dump into the Oceans?

Ge0


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## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

Ge0 said:


> Then ask yourself, how much of that "made in the USA" product is actually made in the USA? Chances are many of the components are made in China or Mexico. The final assembly is only done in the USA.


Gotta start somewhere. The chinese communist gov't has punk'd the world.


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## ashleyparkOU (Jun 22, 2020)

Ge0 said:


> Then ask yourself, how much of that "made in the USA" product is actually made in the USA? Chances are many of the components are made in China or Mexico. The final assembly is only done in the USA.


 If it actually has a geniue made in the USA label then almost all of the materials have to be USA sourced (Ditigal Designs for example the only think they import is the basket so there able to get the "made in USA" tag). 

Where it's murky is the whole "built in USA" or "assembled in USA" tags. Those are more what your referring too, it's that weird area where there claiming USA but it's really just all imported components that are assembled here


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Ge0 said:


> I still think China is hiding their true COVID-19 case count. They have one of the highest population densities in the world. You just don't turn off COVID-19 infection rate. I suspect they are incinerating anyone who tests positive to cover it up. "Oh, you have a fever you say. Step right this way..."
> 
> That of course was just a bad joke using inappropriate humor. Maybe...
> 
> Ge0


China is a crazy place. In the US we are convinced (not everyone) that we need privatized healthcare, that we need to pay high drug prices, that we need tax loopholes, otherwise big pharma would leave and all of our tech would leave and all of our businesses would leave and our country would dry up - just like manufacturing. No pain no gain, even though the pain is nonexistent in the wealthy class. In China they are convinced (not everyone) that they need to give up direction and control of their personal life to the government. The government may ask them to do something ****ty, but will direct them in a way to grow the country no matter what it costs to the individual. No pain no gain, even though the pain is nonexistent in the wealthy class. Anyway...

China gets to change the COVID calculus quite a bit. When you threaten people with prison time if they don't stay indoors and you are literally patrolling the streets with police vehicles and you quite literally have a big brother video surveillance system that the government is proud of and touts that constantly is scanning your for your face on millions of cameras throughout china - building the kind of data only google has about you. They interpret your social circles, the places you visit, the people you see in those places, the comments you make online. All automatically aggregated with little notes provided for the intelligence agents to read as they peruse through people the system flags.

Despite the impact of that threat, I still have doubts about many numbers the Chinese govnerment provides, and any reasonable person should take them in context. Unlike in the US where we have independent agencies that contradict the government when necessary, in China they are lambasted, discredited, propagandized, and ultimately defunded, disciplined and punished if they persist. Scary times in the US, too, it seems for whistleblowers.


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

skrelnik said:


> Blasphemy. You must be a Trump fan from Alabama if you are not going to use Audiofrog.


I would rather be known as Trump fan from Alabama than what the Biden fans are doing to California, Washington, New York, Chicago & etc.


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

"Hong Kong has officially turned in to a Police State. The business and shopping areas, such as Admiralty and Causeway Bay are filled with armed police in every corner. The Communist Party is arresting youngsters with no cause and disrupting our social lives and economic activities."



https://www.facebook.com/ccaatt/media_set?set=a.10157841000108171&type=3


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

KillerBox said:


> I would rather be known as Trump fan from Alabama than what the Biden fans are doing to California, Washington, New York, Chicago & etc.


My comment was sarcastic and directed at @Ge0 since he/she assumed something that was incorrect and never corrected himself/herself after I called him/her out...and it was personally directed at me.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

skrelnik said:


> My comment was sarcastic and directed at @Ge0 since he/she assumed something that was incorrect and never corrected himself/herself after I called him/her out...and it was personally directed at me.


Wooh wooh wooh Ms/Mr. Skrelnik. Exactly how did I piss on your wheaties? Nothing I said was "directed at you or meant to attack you". I'm just stating real life experience vs. speculation. I've been in the business 25+ years. Nothing I said was incorrect. My comment about Trump is accurate. There is no doubt he has a hard-on against China right now. I did not mean to imply any alliance or defiance you have with him. I apologize if you took my commentary the wrong way.

I'm just sick of people assuming all Chinese manufacturing facilities are all child labor sweat shops. I've visited nearly 50 manufacturing plants in mainland China. I have never witnessed anything but professionalism whether it be a crude shop or state of the art. 

I'm sure there are some sweat shops. But, they make high end hand bags, clothes, and shoes. Electronics takes a whole other skill set.

Ge0


----------



## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

Ge0 said:


> Wooh wooh wooh Ms/Mr. Skrelnik. Exactly how did I piss on your wheaties? Nothing I said was "directed at you or meant to attack you". I'm just stating real life experience vs. speculation. I've been in the business 25+ years. Nothing I said was incorrect. My comment about Trump is accurate. There is no doubt he has a hard-on against China right now. I did not mean to imply any alliance or defiance you have with him. I apologize if you took my commentary the wrong way.
> 
> I'm just sick of people assuming all Chinese manufacturing facilities are all child labor sweat shops. I've visited nearly 50 manufacturing plants in mainland China. I have never witnessed anything but professionalism whether it be a crude shop or state of the art.
> 
> ...


When you reply to my post and call me an elitest

"If so good for you. You are the elite 0.5% For the rest of us I would rather spend my money elsewhere"

Calling me Trump supporter soley based on not wanting to buy Chinese goods. I don't want to buy anything from N. Korea, Argentina or the Sudan, if I have the option not to.

I ended up buying German speakers, not USA made ones. Stuff made in China should be heavily discounted as we all know that game, export manufacturing to cheap labor countries, and those AF GB10s, which was the point of this post, are not $400 tweeters. Made in the USA I get it, made in China them we know someone is making a large profit, not that it's bad, just that I am not interested in paying a premium which lines someone's pocket...I want to pay for quality, and I did. Pumped with my Micro Precision, so much nicer than the AFs. I did mention the AFs looked nice, just not $400 nice, $175 nice.


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

KillerBox said:


> I would rather be known as Trump fan from Alabama than what the Biden fans are doing to California, Washington, New York, Chicago & etc.


What exactly are the Biden fans doing in these states🤔


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

Ge0 said:


> I still think China is hiding their true COVID-19 case count. They have one of the highest population densities in the world. You just don't turn off COVID-19 infection rate. I suspect they are incinerating anyone who tests positive to cover it up. "Oh, you have a fever you say. Step right this way..."
> 
> That of course was just a bad joke using inappropriate humor. Maybe...
> 
> Ge0


Yeah, China is probably lying about their numbers, but our own president has complained several times that he doesn't like all the testing because it makes the numbers go up. Not sure which is worse, given that we are supposed to be a shining example of freedom & prosperity.


----------



## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

RockitFX said:


> What exactly are the Biden fans doing in these states🤔


Trying hard not to make car jokes...


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

opekone said:


> Trying hard not to make car jokes...





opekone said:


> Trying hard not to make car jokes...


A good car joke might lighten the mood in here, it's getting a bit serious!


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

RockitFX said:


> Yeah, China is probably lying about their numbers, but our own president has complained several times that he doesn't like all the testing because it makes the numbers go up. Not sure which is worse, given that we are supposed to be a shining example of freedom & prosperity.


I don't want to get into a political debate. But, I have absolutely no respect for our current presidency. I have become numb to anything the orange man with bad hair says...

Ge0


----------



## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

Ge0 said:


> I don't want to get into a political debate. But, I have absolutely no respect for our current presidency. I have become numb to anything the orange man with bad hair says...
> 
> Ge0


And history repeats itself, two old white male baffoons to choose between. Sucks we have to choose between an oversized oompa loompa and a guy that has dementia.  It's like we have to vote for the lesser evil, which I don't the answer to that.


----------



## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

RockitFX said:


> What exactly are the Biden fans doing in these states🤔











Police chief: Tampa officers ambushed after responding to call near Ybor City


Tampa Police Chief Brian Dugan said his officers were ambushed after responding to a call early Saturday.




www.abcactionnews.com













My terrifying five-day stay inside Seattle’s cop-free CHAZ


SEATTLE — On June 8, Seattle police frantically loaded what they could from the East Precinct into trucks and cars. Within hours, they boarded up and abandoned the station. That night, left-wing pr…




nypost.com













NY Times Mum on ‘1619’ Creator Calling ‘1619 Riots’ Moniker an ‘Honor’


The N.Y. Times was asked whether "1619 Project" chief Nikole Hannah-Jones’ tweet reflected the values of the newspaper, but it didn't respond.




www.dailysignal.com













Chicago Sees 102 Shootings in Most Violent Weekend of 2020


Chicago recorded 102 shooting victims over the weekend, the highest number for a single weekend in 2020.The rash of shootings is part of a spate of violence that began after George Floyd demonstrations in late May descended into widespread looting and rioting that began after George Floyd was killed




news.yahoo.com













600 protesters face off with deputies in Compton after shooting death of 18-year-old


Both sides were separated by just a thin metal barricade as tensions mounted.




www.dailybreeze.com


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Anyone have a link to where I can buy Republican car audio gear? 

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


----------



## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

Bayboy said:


> Anyone have a link to where I can buy Republican car audio gear?
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


Sure. Here is one:

CDT Audio Home Page

Built and warehoused in the USA! 

There are others that are made/built in the USA as well - shop them - shop Republican - shop USA! ;-)

Ok, so maybe calling it "Republican car audio gear" is a stretch, but at least it's built and warehoused here in the USA, which is a Republican "thing", IMO!


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

skrelnik said:


> And history repeats itself, two old white male baffoons to choose between. Sucks we have to choose between an oversized oompa loompa and a guy that has dementia. It's like we have to vote for the lesser evil, which I don't the answer to that.


Agree 100%. I respect the work Biden has done in the past for our country. But, think its time he hang up his hat. We need someone new and fresh who is ready to do whatever it takes:


















Ge0


----------



## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

skrelnik said:


> And history repeats itself, two old white male baffoons to choose between. Sucks we have to choose between an oversized oompa loompa and a guy that has dementia. It's like we have to vote for the lesser evil, which I don't the answer to that.


What does their race have to do with anything? You are either able to do the job or you are not. Why do you have to bring race into it? 

What's wrong with "old white" people being president? You don't (or shouldn't) vote for someone simply based on their race - that would be racist, wouldn't it?

Obviously, you are jealous of President Trump - just like all of the other haters out there - probably because you'll never be half as successful in life as an "oversized oompa loompa"....


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

So how bout them frogs..

This forum gets worse by the week

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> So how bout them frogs..
> 
> This forum gets worse by the week
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


 I'm going to scrap my stereo because I'm not sure what political party it sides with. I've been bamboozled!

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

KillerBox said:


> Police chief: Tampa officers ambushed after responding to call near Ybor City
> 
> 
> Tampa Police Chief Brian Dugan said his officers were ambushed after responding to a call early Saturday.
> ...


Wtf does that have to do with Biden? 

As long as the cops continue racially profiling & killing people of color, the comunity WILL continue to revolt.


----------



## Smdaniel-11 (Feb 4, 2019)

skrelnik said:


> Just curious to hear if anyone has opinions on Audiofrogs GB series? I recently picked up the GB10s and I was so excited to install them, and replace the tweeters from my Helix P235 set. I am not using the Helix crossover as the speakers are fully active driven by a Match DSP.
> 
> My first impressions were that the box was well packaged and came with a bunch of install gear. The speakers looked well built and girthy, but, I was immediately disappointed with the sticker that said Made in China, I think steam may have come out of my ears as I thought they were made in the USA.
> 
> ...


If they are still in good shape I will be happy to buy or trade you about any brand of tweeter for your “bag of rocks”.
Please keep me posted.


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

jtrosky said:


> Sure. Here is one:
> 
> CDT Audio Home Page
> 
> ...


All the Republican business owners that I know are doing everything they can to build their products outside of the USA, to maximize profits for their shareholders. Those that aren't outsourcing, are automating.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

The car audio world has really flushed itself further into the pipes leading to the cesspool. Like, I've been dealing with this for some time, but I can't bear to stay silent any more. My mids.... my freakin 2.75" are now transoctave?! They don't know whether they want to be a wideband or a damn midrange and I'm sick of it!

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

Bayboy said:


> The car audio world has really flushed itself further into the pipes leading to the cesspool. Like, I've been dealing with this for some time, but I can't bear to stay silent any more. My mids.... my freakin 2.75" are now transoctave?! They don't know whether they want to be a wideband or a damn midrange and I'm sick of it!
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


Just let them be the speakers they were meant to be. Sure, not everyone will like them, but many will accept them, and some will even, dare I say, _prefer_ them. It's a brave new world!


----------



## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Bayboy said:


> The car audio world has really flushed itself further into the pipes leading to the cesspool. Like, I've been dealing with this for some time, but I can't bear to stay silent any more. My mids.... my freakin 2.75" are now transoctave?! They don't know whether they want to be a wideband or a damn midrange and I'm sick of it!
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


Clever segue...

Ge0


----------



## Grannys65 (Mar 17, 2011)

Im planning on purchasing some AF components soon. The fact that they are made in China will not differ my choice. I mean, I drive a 04 GMC sierra which is supposto be an "american" made brand, yet its assembled in mexico, the alpine deck that's in my truck is made in japan, the shocks I just installed are from germany, the clothing I am wearing is made from various countries around the world. My samsung phone....you get the picture.

True we may not agree on various views from yander and the US does import more goods than we export, tis that not the american way these days? 

If the quality is there and no deniable the sound these speakers produce is on par with the cost, why make a fuss where it comes from?


----------



## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

Smdaniel-11 said:


> If they are still in good shape I will be happy to buy or trade you about any brand of tweeter for your “bag of rocks”.
> Please keep me posted.


I sold them already and picked up some Micro Precision tweeters.



jtrosky said:


> What does their race have to do with anything? You are either able to do the job or you are not. Why do you have to bring race into it?
> 
> What's wrong with "old white" people being president? You don't (or shouldn't) vote for someone simply based on their race - that would be racist, wouldn't it?
> 
> Obviously, you are jealous of President Trump - just like all of the other haters out there - probably because you'll never be half as successful in life as an "oversized oompa loompa"....


You missed the point, over the course of American history the final candidates are old white males, that's factual. My point was everyone wants change, but clearly it is not happening.

Nothing wrong with "old white" people being president, age/old is subjective just like a measurement of success.

It's funny on this thread I have not been accused of loving Trump and to only buy USA made goods, to now, a Trump hater and jealous of him. That should tell you, @jtrosky , you cannot read people. Trump, by a a lot of measures, is highly successful, and IMHO one of the best marketers of our lifetime. He is still and oversized oompa loompa.


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

skrelnik said:


> I sold them already and picked up some Micro Precision tweeters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To your last point: Trump wouldn't be **** had it not been for Daddy's money. He's an uneducated (I don't care where he got his 'degree') egomaniac with a temper problem, as well as a pathological liar; not a great combination of qualities unless you aspire to be a dictator.


----------



## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

RockitFX said:


> To your last point: Trump wouldn't be **** had it not been for Daddy's money. He's an uneducated (I don't care where he got his 'degree') egomaniac with a temper problem, as well as a pathological liar; not a great combination of qualities unless you aspire to be a dictator.


Think of all the other people that were handed free money and squandered it, professional athletes that had tens of millions and have nothing now, lottery winners with nothing.

Daddy's money can buy you expendable products, like a Lamborghini, but not the presidency of the USA.


----------



## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

skrelnik said:


> Think of all the other people that were handed free money and squandered it, professional athletes that had tens of millions and have nothing now, lottery winners with nothing.
> 
> Daddy's money can buy you expendable products, like a Lamborghini, but not the presidency of the USA.


Shhhh..... Don't go screwing up RockIt's story with facts! 

(Just say Orange Man is bad because that is all they want to hear.)


----------



## Smdaniel-11 (Feb 4, 2019)

skrelnik said:


> I sold them already and picked up some Micro Precision tweeters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was a hell of a great choice!! Hope it achieved what you are looking for!!


----------



## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

skrelnik said:


> You missed the point, over the course of American history the final candidates are old white males, that's factual. My point was everyone wants change, but clearly it is not happening.


I didn't miss the point. Ummm, you do realize that the president before Trump was black, don't you?  And that the person Trump ran against (aka one of the "the final candidates" last time) was a woman? Obviously, the "final candidates" aren't always "old white males" - that is NOT factual.

And not "everyone" wants change.... Maybe _that_ is why it's not happening?


----------



## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

jtrosky said:


> I didn't miss the point. Ummm, you do realize that the president before Trump was black, don't you?  And that the person Trump ran against (aka one of the "the final candidates" last time) was a woman? Obviously, the "final candidates" aren't always "old white males" - that is NOT factual.
> 
> And not "everyone" wants change.... Maybe _that_ is why it's not happening?


Prior to 2008, so for three runs we deviated as a society, and now with such division and all the hoopla of diversity nature we are back to pre-2008, when 100% of candidates were white males. Prove me wrong, I'm not a historian.

Yes, you did miss the point of everything on this thread, "history repeats itself" we are back to two white males running. That was what was said and what you replied to:



skrelnik said:


> And history repeats itself, two old white male baffoons to choose between. Sucks we have to choose between an oversized oompa loompa and a guy that has dementia. It's like we have to vote for the lesser evil, which I don't the answer to that.


----------



## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

skrelnik said:


> Prior to 2008, so for three runs we deviated as a society, and now with such division and all the hoopla of diversity nature we are back to pre-2008, when 100% of candidates were white males. Prove me wrong, I'm not a historian.
> 
> Yes, you did miss the point of everything on this thread, "history repeats itself" we are back to two white males running. That was what was said and what you replied to:


Since 63% of USA population is white, 16% is Hispanic, 12% is black, 5% is Asian, 2% is bi-racial & less than 1% is native american or native Pacific Islander, it doesn't take Professor Einstein to figure out that just based on statics the majority of the candidates would be white. So it is not racial at all but, sexism is a possibility because our population is 51% female.

Not that this has anything to do with AudioFrog's speakers, their quality or where they were manufactured.


----------



## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

What the hell does President Trump have to do with Audiofrog? I'm curious, was O'bama getting trashed in every thread 4/5 years ago? I don't remember coming across that


----------



## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> So how bout them frogs..
> 
> This forum gets worse by the week
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


This conversation is fine for ot but we don't have a mod to move it ....

In the past we did so we didn't notice as many of these threads as there actually is.


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)




----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

KillerBox said:


> Shhhh..... Don't go screwing up RockIt's story with facts!
> 
> (Just say Orange Man is bad because that is all they want to hear.)


What facts? All that was provided where anecdotes, and poor ones at that. If Trump is sooooo successful, why doesn't he just show his tax returns? Ya know, like every other Presidential candidate before him .... The guy has filed bankruptcy 6 times, so he's either a terrible business person or he really likes screwing people out of money. Either way, not the kind of person that I want running the country.


----------



## deadrx7conv (Aug 25, 2010)

Arresting a criminal isnt racial profiling.


----------



## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

RockitFX said:


> What facts? All that was provided where anecdotes, and poor ones at that. If Trump is sooooo successful, why doesn't he just show his tax returns? Ya know, like every other Presidential candidate before him .... The guy has filed bankruptcy 6 times, so he's either a terrible business person or he really likes screwing people out of money. Either way, not the kind of person that I want running the country.


After the way that President Trump has been treated the #resist movement, I wouldn't release anything either!


----------



## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

skrelnik said:


> Think of all the other people that were handed free money and squandered it, professional athletes that had tens of millions and have nothing now, lottery winners with nothing.
> 
> Daddy's money can buy you expendable products, like a Lamborghini, but not the presidency of the USA.


RockIT, we are still waiting on your response to this comment.


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

KillerBox said:


> RockIT, we are still waiting on your response to this comment.


I didn't respond because as I stated, these were anecdotes, not evidence. But I'll play along-

"Rich kids" are usually exposed to other, actually successful people their entire lives, and having a rich family makes for a great safety net. They have also had a different set of values instilled in them compared to that of a poor kid. Even if said rich kid isn't very smart or well educated, they probably at least know a lot of other rich people & are comfortable around wealth. Knowing the right people goes a long way towards being successful.

Lottery winners usually don't have experience with wealth management, and money goes quick when everyone you know all of a sudden needs a loan. Most of the ones that go broke do so on account of not accounting for taxes, which doesn't automatically come out of the winnings.

Regarding Trump specifically, he was handed a real estate empire, and given the amount of secrecy surrounding his wealth, it's hard to tell how much his fortune has grown or shrunk since the death of his father. Again, if he's so successful, wouldn't the ultimate burn be to prove it? Obviously he either can't prove it, or has something to hide. Shady AF either way.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I guess it's a good time (opportune rather) to announce a new car audio brand will be coming to the market soon.... 

DICK Audio

Great gear that will speak for itself. 

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


----------



## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

RockitFX said:


> I didn't respond because as I stated, these were anecdotes, not evidence. But I'll play along-
> 
> "Rich kids" are usually exposed to other, actually successful people their entire lives, and having a rich family makes for a great safety net. They have also had a different set of values instilled in them compared to that of a poor kid. Even if said rich kid isn't very smart or well educated, they probably at least know a lot of other rich people & are comfortable around wealth. Knowing the right people goes a long way towards being successful.
> 
> ...


Everyone is born with certain advantages or disadvantages from their parents. Some of them are genetics, some of them are taught by their parents.

So I can't fault a "rich kid" being taught certain things no more than I can fault a profession athlete being taught by his parents or coaches. 

I tried and still try to teach my sons everything that I can and any parent that does not do the same is sorry in my opinion.


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

KillerBox said:


> Everyone is born with certain advantages or disadvantages from their parents. Some of them are genetics, some of them are taught by their parents.
> 
> So I can't fault a "rich kid" being taught certain things no more than I can fault a profession athlete being taught by his parents or coaches.
> 
> I tried and still try to teach my sons everything that I can and any parent that does not do the same is sorry in my opinion.


I cannot disagree with anything in this post. Cheers


----------



## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

Bayboy said:


> I guess it's a good time (opportune rather) to announce a new car audio brand will be coming to the market soon....
> 
> DICK Audio
> 
> ...


The first product will be an IEM, naturally:


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Hey Mods. if you see this post, ban me. **** this place. I need to spend my time doing more productive things vs trying to help someone and having it turn into a political debate


----------



## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

opekone said:


> The first product will be an IEM, naturally:
> View attachment 272531


LMAO


SkizeR said:


> Hey Mods. if you see this post, ban me. **** this place. I need to spend my time doing more productive things vs trying to help someone and having it turn into a political debate


Trying to help someone? You called the OP an idiot in your first post in this thread, that's kinda where things started going south.


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)




----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

RockitFX said:


> LMAO
> 
> Trying to help someone? You called the OP an idiot in your first post in this thread, that's kinda where things started going south.


Yeah, you are an idiot if you believe that the geographic location of manufacturing is an indicator of performance. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> Yeah, you are an idiot if you believe that the geographic location of manufacturing is an indicator of performance.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> Yeah, you are an idiot if you believe that the geographic location of manufacturing is an indicator of performance.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


You are correct but it does have something to do with buying from a nation that does this:









China flexes economic muscles | The Western Producer


Canadian farmers might feel hurt and alone in the abuse they are suffering from China’s belligerent government. But in being hit in the pocketbook by




www.producer.com













China flexes its muscles; US, India hit single-day COVID-19 case highs; Evil Corp targets corporate America


China has been testing boundaries — both geographically and legally. The US hit a record single-day high of 40,000 reported coronavirus infections Thursday. India also experienced a record 24-hour spike. A Russian ransomware group that seems to have taken their name right out of the movies is...




www.pri.org













World Report 2019: Rights Trends in China







www.hrw.org













10 Astounding Facts About Human Rights Violations in China - The Borgen Project


it is important that the Chinese government gives all citizens a voice in order to end human rights violations in China.




borgenproject.org


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

KillerBox said:


> You are correct but it does have something to do with buying from a nation that does this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I couldn't give half a **** tbh, and neither do you. If you did, you'd have no way to even access this forum. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> I couldn't give half a **** tbh, and neither do you. If you did, you'd have no way to even access this forum.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Au Contraire Mon Frère, I do care but, sometimes you don't have a choice of where products are made.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

KillerBox said:


> Au Contraire Mon Frère, I do care but, sometimes you don't have a choice of where products are made.


So stop worrying about it and carry on with your life. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> So stop worrying about it and carry on with your life.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I support your right to buy from China and their ****ty policies but, I will decide what I should or shouldn't worry about. 

Thank you very much!


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

KillerBox said:


> I support your right to buy from China and their ****ty policies but, I will decide what I should or shouldn't worry about.
> 
> Thank you very much!


Then take it to a different thread. I also live how you have always been so Gung ho about audiofrog but then say stuff like this lol

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> Then take it to a different thread. I also live how you have always been so Gung ho about audiofrog but then say stuff like this lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


You are correct, I own AudioFrog equipment. I like their quality but, mostly because of Andy sharing his knowledge with the community. 

With that being said, I hate China's policies. So it is no big secret that I am conflicted with myself over this.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

This **** is just crazy... damn... deeming a brand communist then onto political party related.. what's next?? If it's going there then whew lawdamercy don't use any of that fancy Italian gear. Them Catholics and the rumors of choir boys. Ohhh German gear... it's supporting Hitler! Anything from Switzerland... it's probably got holes in the boards!

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


----------



## Speedhunter (Feb 21, 2020)

SkizeR said:


> Yeah, you are an idiot if you believe that the geographic location of manufacturing is an indicator of performance.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk





SkizeR said:


> Yeah, you are an idiot if you believe that the geographic location of manufacturing is an indicator of performance.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


There is the reason why is everything produced in China. We all know including you what he actually talks about. I am Electrical techincal officer (electrician on ship) and many of my work mates from Asia and for some reasons Italia got their officer certificates without any tests and education. By SCTW i need to have college education of minimal 3 years, 6 months on ship as electrician and on top of that 6 curses of firefighting, life raft deployment etc... just to get permission to got on board. This is highly due to their countries standards and politics.

It is also really funny how someone in the industry as a installer doesnt know how, who and for how much makes this speakers and by that i mean they probably cost around few dollars. From rest 890$ First design crew and than in order Andy, rest of the crew, container from china, licensing...are payed.

I worked in mercedes benz and you would wonder how much it costs to built one, but how crap materials are due to china part in building.

I respect andy and his community for great support and by that i am willing to spent some money on some equipment that are not so much overpirced.
He is on of the most anoying persons on the facebook with his posts about “murica crap” like this discussion so in some way it correlates.
Also his fan base are so easily offended so they share “idiots” around like you.

by saying all that, it is not okay that we pay 2500$ mercedes benz 15k$ and 10$ speaker 900$. Thats the marketing of today and everyone can sell his **** for as much as he wants. People buy shoes from clowns that are famous for tousands, so please stop crying everyone.


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

KillerBox said:


> You are correct but it does have something to do with buying from a nation that does this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha, yeah Skize doesn't get it.



SkizeR said:


> Then take it to a different thread. I also live how you have always been so Gung ho about audiofrog but then say stuff like this lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


You take it to a different thread, I started it, you replied like a donkey. Now leave and go sell your overpriced Audiofrogs where the profit margin must be through the roof when you use child labor and pay them in rocks. Not saying bad quality, but that Chinese worker is exploited and a few of us want no part of it, if we can avoid it.

Now leave


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

skrelnik said:


> Haha, yeah Skize doesn't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Just stopping by the DIYMA autonomous zone to say Hi!


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## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

SkizeR said:


> Yeah, you are an idiot if you believe that the geographic location of manufacturing is an indicator of performance.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


First, maybe you shouldn't lead with "you're an idiot". Second, while I agree that broad generalizations are usually not a good idea, there is some merit to the OPs position. As someone that buys a lot of stuff from abroad (both Asia & Europe), I can tell you that in my experience, the same type of product coming from Europe is going to be of a higher quality than that coming from China, albeit at a much higher price. Sometimes that extra cost is worth it, sometimes it's not, but NO ONE buys from China because they are producing the best products. And while some of you will label what I'm about to say as racist, different cultures value different things: Germany values quality, Italy values aesthetics, China values production volume, and America values Freedom.


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## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

RockitFX said:


> First, maybe you shouldn't lead with "you're an idiot". Second, while I agree that broad generalizations are usually not a good idea, there is some merit to the OPs position. As someone that buys a lot of stuff from abroad (both Asia & Europe), I can tell you that in my experience, the same type of product coming from Europe is going to be of a higher quality than that coming from China, albeit at a much higher price. Sometimes that extra cost is worth it, sometimes it's not, but NO ONE buys from China because they are producing the best products. And while some of you will label what I'm about to say as racist, different cultures value different things: Germany values quality, Italy values aesthetics, China values production volume, and America values Freedom.


Yes China does make some cheap products but that's because they make literally everything. Some things will be cheaply made and cheaply priced. I'm quite sure Audiofrog is NOT one of them. I believe the OP was saying he wasn't wow'd by the GB10. I don't believe he said they seemed cheaply made. I could get a pair of GB15's for $450 from crutchfield. I just choose not to. And I need a set of really good tweeters. Are the GB15's almost twice as good as the scan d3004's, I have no idea. I'm going to buy new tweeters soon and since there are many good ones to choose from they won't be from China. Everyone has a right to buy whatever they want and shouldn't be criticized for it.


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## Dremgragen (Jul 14, 2008)

I mean, it does sound like a Chinese brand name, being a completely random adjective unrelated to its noun. I don't like Audiofrog for this completely separate stupid reason.
​"Hey man, I really like your system! This sounds great! What brand of speakers are these?"​"Audiofrog."​
Yeah, no, never happen in my car. Reminds me of those celebrities who name their kids stupid things like North West, Moon Unit, Blue Angel, or Pilot Inspector. F

I assume anyone who buys this brand is also an Apple user.


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

Patriot83 said:


> Yes China does make some cheap products but that's because they make literally everything. Some things will be cheaply made and cheaply priced. I'm quite sure Audiofrog is NOT one of them. I believe the OP was saying he wasn't wow'd by the GB10. I don't believe he said they seemed cheaply made. I could get a pair of GB15's for $450 from crutchfield. I just choose not to. And I need a set of really good tweeters. Are the GB15's almost twice as good as the scan d3004's, I have no idea. I'm going to buy new tweeters soon and since there are many good ones to choose from they won't be from China. Everyone has a right to buy whatever they want and shouldn't be criticized for it.


Yes, thank you. That was point. Micro Precision 5.28s were a couple bucks less than the GB10s and I like everything about these 5.28s over the GBs. I'm glad I made the switch.

A lower priced GB10 would be more appealing, and being made in China places my relative value for them around $175-$200.

But then again, maybe the reason the price is so high is due to all that mounting gear that comes with it.


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## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

skrelnik said:


> Yes, thank you. That was point. Micro Precision 5.28s were a couple bucks less than the GB10s and I like everything about these 5.28s over the GBs. I'm glad I made the switch.
> 
> A lower priced GB10 would be more appealing, and being made in China places my relative value for them around $175-$200.
> 
> But then again, maybe the reason the price is so high is due to all that mounting gear that comes with it.


Where did you get your micro p tweeters?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Patriot83 said:


> Where did you get your micro p tweeters?


as soon as I saw this, I saw something I will never unsee... Micro Peen lol


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## Patriot83 (May 10, 2017)

hahaha


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

Patriot83 said:


> Where did you get your micro p tweeters?


Unexpected Creations. Great place to buy stuff. Honest guy.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Ge0 said:


> WTF is it with folks hang up on "built in China" Must be a Trump thing., It has nothing to do about the quality of the product IF you pick a competent build house. Quality can be better than built in the USA if the buyer specifies this.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that labor in China is still 40% lower than that in the USA, This does not translate to resulting product quality. Would you really pay $400 more for a set of speakers that were truly built in the USA vs. parts produced in China with the same quality / tolerances? If so good for you. You are the elite 0.5% For the rest of us I would rather spend my money elsewhere.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's a Trump thing, I'm a Trump supporter, if the product is of good quality AND cheaper, I'll buy it, but I'd rather buy American made goods even if slightly more expensive. That rarely works out though.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

skrelnik said:


> Blasphemy. You must be a Trump fan from Alabama if you are not going to use Audiofrog.


Hey! Trump fan from Alabama here!


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

skrelnik said:


> It's like we have to vote for the lesser evil, which I don't the answer to that.


So what's new? Political positions attract power hungry egomaniacs. You just gotta pick the one that cares about our country/constitution/people, if there is one.


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

ckirocz28 said:


> Hey! Trump fan from Alabama here!


That was a sarcastic comment, part of the larger thread.


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

ckirocz28 said:


> So what's new? Political positions attract power hungry egomaniacs. You just gotta pick the one that cares about our country/constitution/people, if there is one.


This archaic 250 year old government has run its course, time for a new structure, IMHO. Senators don't ride horses to DC to vote anymore.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

skrelnik said:


> That was a sarcastic comment, part of the larger thread.


I was trying to add a little levity. I took no offense, and also know that none was meant.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Archaic! Hahahaha


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## Dremgragen (Jul 14, 2008)

skrelnik said:


> This archaic 250 year old government has run its course, time for a new structure, IMHO. Senators don't ride horses to DC to vote anymore.


I think our govt structure is pretty cool and well thought out. Our forefathers just didn't anticipate all if it's members being for sale to the highest bidder rather than honest Americans representing their voters. They're also overpaid. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Speedhunter (Feb 21, 2020)

skrelnik said:


> Unexpected Creations. Great place to buy stuff. Honest guy.


Amazing EU stuff are there. Great place!


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## TRUTHhz (May 13, 2020)

Are the sheep arguing over their master again?! Muh master better than your master in China! The cattle sure love to fight over who should rule them. I hope you mouth breathers don’t buy anything from India if you are here complaining about communist China.


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## HRLTim (Sep 20, 2019)

Sometimes this forum really ****ing sucks. I wish informed users posted clear relevant information more often :/


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## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

TRUTHhz said:


> Are the sheep arguing over their master again?! Muh master better than your master in China! The cattle sure love to fight over who should rule them. I hope you mouth breathers don’t buy anything from India if you are here complaining about communist China.


So is it sheep, or cattle? And which herd do you belong to, 'cause you certainly ain't one of the masters!


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## TRUTHhz (May 13, 2020)

RockitFX said:


> So is it sheep, or cattle? And which herd do you belong to, 'cause you certainly ain't one of the masters!


Asses only know to assume. I’m my own master. There is none above me.


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## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

ckirocz28 said:


> So what's new? Political positions attract power hungry egomaniacs. You just gotta pick the one that cares about our country/constitution/people, if there is one.





skrelnik said:


> This archaic 250 year old government has run its course, time for a new structure, IMHO. Senators don't ride horses to DC to vote anymore.





Dremgragen said:


> I think our govt structure is pretty cool and well thought out. Our forefathers just didn't anticipate all if it's members being for sale to the highest bidder rather than honest Americans representing their voters. They're also overpaid.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Personally I think our 2-party system is a HUGE part of the problem; politics has turned into a team sport, where it's constantly the Red team against the Blue team, which is stupid. I'd like to see instant runoff/ranked choice voting replace the current system, as it would give true outsiders (not rich guys like Trump or Bloomberg) an opportunity to at least have their positions heard.


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## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

TRUTHhz said:


> Asses only know to assume. I’m my own master. There is none above me.


You are either ignorant AF, or stupid AF; there is ALWAYS somebody above you. Stop paying your taxes & you'll find out right quick.


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## TRUTHhz (May 13, 2020)

RockitFX said:


> You are either ignorant AF, or stupid AF; there is ALWAYS somebody above you. Stop paying your taxes & you'll find out right quick.


Once again, you fail. I don’t pay income or property taxes. NOBODY is above me.


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## RockitFX (Aug 22, 2018)

TRUTHhz said:


> Once again, you fail. I don’t pay income or property taxes. NOBODY is above me.


If you live in America, you'll pay your share or end up in a courtroom as there is no such thing as sovereign citizenship. That being said, I certainly don't know EVERYTHING, so I'd be interested in hearing all about how you were able to put yourself above the law. Enlighten us.


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## TRUTHhz (May 13, 2020)

RockitFX said:


> If you live in America, you'll pay your share or end up in a courtroom as there is no such thing as sovereign citizenship. That being said, I certainly don't know EVERYTHING, so I'd be interested in hearing all about how you were able to put yourself above the law. Enlighten us.


It’s impossible to be sovereign and a citizen simultaneously. I don’t “know” everything. I “know” very little to be blunt, but, am receptive to all information. I cannot “enlighten” you nor anyone else. That is acquired through your own work.


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## platoon2063 (Apr 19, 2020)

Ge0 said:


> I don't want to get into a political debate. But, I have absolutely no respect for our current presidency. I have become numb to anything the orange man with bad hair says...
> 
> Ge0





ckirocz28 said:


> So what's new? Political positions attract power hungry egomaniacs. You just gotta pick the one that cares about our country/constitution/people, if there is one.


Unfortunately, there probably aren't any that truly care. They are too busy collecting cash handouts from lobbyist groups and powerful wealthy CEO's of influential companies. Just my opinion.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

In regards to AudioFrog, Andy has been one of the most knowledgable and helpful guys in the industry. If there was a Hall of Fame, he would be inducted. So, even though his product is made in China, buying AudioFrog is supporting Andy and his staff, which are all AMERICANS, and all the dealers here in the US. 

If you guys out there refuse to buy China, then you need to throw away your phones, TV's, etc. This is a global economy and ultimately the money that is generated from AudioFrog is being used to help the US Economy.


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## skrelnik (Sep 15, 2015)

RockitFX said:


> Personally I think our 2-party system is a HUGE part of the problem; politics has turned into a team sport, where it's constantly the Red team against the Blue team, which is stupid. I'd like to see instant runoff/ranked choice voting replace the current system, as it would give true outsiders (not rich guys like Trump or Bloomberg) an opportunity to at least have their positions heard.


Yup, go to Boston and the Yankees suck, go to New York and the Red Sox suck, go anywhere else and they both suck.


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