# NEW Minidsp c-dsp 8x12



## Elgrosso

miniDSP in a BOX : C-DSP 8x12

Re-Sweeeet


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## Jscoyne2

Elgrosso said:


> miniDSP in a BOX : C-DSP 8x12
> 
> Re-Sweeeet


Doppee...but no Dirac...


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## tRidiot

Well MFer... I JUST bought a 6x8... and really could use the extra inputs. 

Wonder if they'll take a trade-in?


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## Elgrosso

Jscoyne2 said:


> Doppee...but no Dirac...


Nope, not yet maybe, since it’s the same ADSP21489.


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## Elgrosso

My unit should arrive soon but plugin is ready:

10 PEQS per channel in & out
Compressor
25ms delay / 0.005ms increment
The 12 outs are divided in two pages, good idea I think.
Matrix starts to be messy 
(maybe to easily remove one page/half output for Dirac... )


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## BigAl205

You said it has no Dirac, but can you plug in FIR filters made by other programs?


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## Truthunter

Is this the only mini with 6v outputs?


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## tRidiot

6V pre-outs = awesomesauce

I'm really thinking about upgrading to this one, even though I just got my 6x8 in.


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## Velozity

Mine shipped today. Can't wait to put it in. I'm just excited for the full hi-res192kHz processing path vs. the 48kHz in my 6x8. Rear fill and 6V preouts are a bonus.


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## BigAl205

BigAl205 said:


> You said it has no Dirac, but can you plug in FIR filters made by other programs?


I found this under the specs:



> Filtering Technology:	IIR/FIR depending on plugin


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## naiku

Is it possible to demo the software with these? for example with the Helix I could enter all my settings ahead of time using the software in demo mode, save that and then upload it to the DSP when it came in. Was a nice little time saver.


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## Jscoyne2

naiku said:


> Is it possible to demo the software with these? for example with the Helix I could enter all my settings ahead of time using the software in demo mode, save that and then upload it to the DSP when it came in. Was a nice little time saver.


If someone sends you the software yes. Otherwise there is no way to obtain the software unless you buy it

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## Elgrosso

BigAl205 said:


> I found this under the specs:
> Filtering Technology:	IIR/FIR depending on plugin


No FIR right now, I just re-checked to be sure.
But not yet, we have all good reasons to see a new FIR plugin one day.
The 2x4HD dropped the FIR for Dirac.
Maybe this one will drop few channels for FIR
And then FIR for Dirac even later 

The more we are to ask the sooner we’ll get it.
12 channels... this should call for the new Dirac Unison 





naiku said:


> Is it possible to demo the software with these? for example with the Helix I could enter all my settings ahead of time using the software in demo mode, save that and then upload it to the DSP when it came in. Was a nice little time saver.


If you just want to play with the soft not connected to the unit yes it’s possible.


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## naiku

Elgrosso said:


> If you just want to play with the soft not connected to the unit yes it’s possible.


But, do you have to have the unit in order to get the software? I can't find anywhere to actually download the software and try it in a demo mode, not the end of the world, would just be nice to tinker around with it some.


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## captainobvious

How precise of a Q can you get with the PEQ? (How narrow)
How many presets?
Looks like a nice unit.


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## AAAAAAA

Can this do center channel? Probably not, can't see it on the link.


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## DavidRam

It is the same dimensions as the 6x8... Hmmm... It would be any easy swap...


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## brainbot1

Whats the deal with compression? why would someone want to reduce the dynamics of a particular channel over another or the mix as a whole? isn't this something for the mixing engineer?


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## AAAAAAA

brainbot1 said:


> Whats the deal with compression? why would someone want to reduce the dynamics of a particular channel over another or the mix as a whole? isn't this something for the mixing engineer?


To make a quiet recording louder.


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## Elgrosso

naiku said:


> But, do you have to have the unit in order to get the software? I can't find anywhere to actually download the software and try it in a demo mode, not the end of the world, would just be nice to tinker around with it some.


Yes I think you have to buy it first for the plugin to appear in your download section on their site.
But long time ago I was able to buy some plugins without the unit, don’t remember the details, maybe you can ask them to unlock it for you?




captainobvious said:


> How precise of a Q can you get with the PEQ? (How narrow)
> How many presets?
> Looks like a nice unit.


Q goes from 0.5 to 50 for peak & all pass,
from 0.5 to 25 for high & low shelf
and 4 presets




DavidRam said:


> It is the same dimensions as the 6x8... Hmmm... It would be any easy swap...


Oh I missed that, thought it was a bit bigger, even better!


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## Focused4door

brainbot1 said:


> Whats the deal with compression? why would someone want to reduce the dynamics of a particular channel over another or the mix as a whole? isn't this something for the mixing engineer?



If you listen to music with a wide range (high dynamics) at lower volumes, it is really useful.

I use one on my headphones at work, since I want to listen low enough to hear my phone and people talking to me. It takes a little getting used to it, and takes a little fiddling to get a good setting that doesn't make it sound completely flat with little dynamics.

Ideally a compander (expander and compressor in one) would be the way to go, but all I have is a compressor.


You are modifying the recording from the original, so lots of people don't like to use them but they are useful for certain situations.

I would love to have one in the car, but I don't listen loud relative to most people.


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## brainbot1

Multi-quote doesnt seem to be working



AAAAAAA said:


> To make a quiet recording louder.





Focused4door said:


> If you listen to music with a wide range (high dynamics) at lower volumes, it is really useful.
> 
> I use one on my headphones at work, since I want to listen low enough to hear my phone and people talking to me. It takes a little getting used to it, and takes a little fiddling to get a good setting that doesn't make it sound completely flat with little dynamics.
> 
> Ideally a compander (expander and compressor in one) would be the way to go, but all I have is a compressor.
> 
> 
> You are modifying the recording from the original, so lots of people don't like to use them but they are useful for certain situations.
> 
> I would love to have one in the car, but I don't listen loud relative to most people.


I suppose it would be beneficial as well to not lose quiet material when driving where there can be a lot of road/engine/outside noise. One preset with compression for driving, another preset without compression for listening parked.


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## naiku

Do any of you have this unit yet? if so, can you post a picture of the remote? I placed an order earlier today, but cannot find any picture of the remote. I am curious what it looks like and also to get an idea of where I can possibly mount it.


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## Elgrosso

It's the same than the 6x8, about 3"x1.5"x1.5":


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## naiku

Thanks, looks like our should be easy enough to mount somewhere. Good thing is I already have an RJ11 cable running into the console for a bass knob, not having to pull another cable is a win in my book.


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## Velozity

It's a great unit, but the remote is "meh". I ended up dismantling mine and relocating the buttons. I do wish it had LED or numerical indication of volume level.

Good choice, naiku!


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## Kriszilla

Doesn't the 8x12 allow sub level control with the remote now? I thought I'd read that somewhere...


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## Elgrosso

Velozity said:


> It's a great unit, but the remote is "meh". I ended up dismantling mine and relocating the buttons. I do wish it had LED or numerical indication of volume level.
> 
> Good choice, naiku!


Yep I thought this one would have the leds, like on the illustration on the manual, but nope.




Kriszilla said:


> Doesn't the 8x12 allow sub level control with the remote now? I thought I'd read that somewhere...


Yes, and 6x8 too, it's the firmware. Same knob, but a combo of button press will toggle between all channels/only sub. Don't remember the details I never used it.


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## Theslaking




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## Theslaking

Elgrosso said:


> Yep I thought this one would have the leds, like on the illustration on the manual, but nope.
> 
> Yes, and 6x8 too, it's the firmware. Same knob, but a combo of button press will toggle between all channels/only sub. Don't remember the details I never used it.


All you do is hit 1+2 at the same time and it switches to sub level control. You can set it to control outputs 7+8 or just 8. I use it frequently for the sub control and mute function. I have volume control from HU.


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## naiku

Velozity said:


> It's a great unit, but the remote is "meh". I ended up dismantling mine and relocating the buttons. I do wish it had LED or numerical indication of volume level.
> 
> Good choice, naiku!


Thanks, was it easy to dismantle the remote? I have a couple places in mind, but if it is easy to dismantle and relocate the buttons I may put them under the arm rest. 

Most likely I will just use the remote for sub level, but it is disappointing to read it does not have any indication of the level, especially as the manual says it does.


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## naiku

Are any of you with this unit getting some hissing noise? Mine arrived yesterday, hooked it up, turned on the ignition and I get a fairly loud hiss from all speakers. If I mute the volume on the DSP it goes away. I have seen a couple threads of people getting noise with the 6x8, but nothing on the 8x12, although I do realize it is a pretty new unit. I only had a few minutes, so have not really tried to see how much the DSP volume affects it. With it muted though, there is complete silence. I may also try moving the ground, but again, only had a few minutes yesterday so did not really get to try anything.

The remote is a little bigger than I had hoped, I may take mine apart to fit it where I want to. With it inside its case, it's about 1/4" too wide.


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## Elgrosso

naiku said:


> Are any of you with this unit getting some hissing noise? Mine arrived yesterday, hooked it up, turned on the ignition and I get a fairly loud hiss from all speakers. If I mute the volume on the DSP it goes away. I have seen a couple threads of people getting noise with the 6x8, but nothing on the 8x12, although I do realize it is a pretty new unit. I only had a few minutes, so have not really tried to see how much the DSP volume affects it. With it muted though, there is complete silence. I may also try moving the ground, but again, only had a few minutes yesterday so did not really get to try anything.
> 
> The remote is a little bigger than I had hoped, I may take mine apart to fit it where I want to. With it inside its case, it's about 1/4" too wide.


Nope no hiss, 6x8 or 8x12. Everything is grounded on the same point, then to the battery directly (in trunk).
I had a too high noise on the 6x8 with the horns, doubling the output channels with 0 gain lowered it enough.
With the 8x12 I have an even lower noise but without the trick.
It’s still there, but totally acceptable.


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## Theslaking

Any updated opinions? Looking to by one to replace my 6x8.


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## jsolo53

Theslaking said:


> Any updated opinions? Looking to by one to replace my 6x8.


How about it. Are you owners happy with the 8x12? Didn't see any comments on sq. What do the users think?

I'm looking at an 8x12 or a dsp pro II (for twice the money, plus a director). Gotta get the pos 3sixty.3 out of my car. Sure wish the Mini could accept streaming audio over usb. I think Helix DSP is the only one that can do that.


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## naiku

Theslaking said:


> Any updated opinions? Looking to by one to replace my 6x8.





jsolo53 said:


> How about it. Are you owners happy with the 8x12? Didn't see any comments on sq. What do the users think?
> 
> I'm looking at an 8x12 or a dsp pro II (for twice the money, plus a director). Gotta get the pos 3sixty.3 out of my car. Sure wish the Mini could accept streaming audio over usb. I think Helix DSP is the only one that can do that.


I like mine and would recommend them to anyone. The hiss noise I was getting is 99% under control, just required some tweaking of gains at both amps and the DSP. With rear fill dialed in it is sounding great. I only have experience with a Helix DSP, but don't believe that a Helix DSP Pro II is worth twice the price, even more when you add in the cost of the Director. I will say the Helix software is nicer than the MiniDSP software, but is it $500 more, nope, not at all. 

My biggest complaint is that even though the user manual says the remote should have LED's, and in fact when you take the board out of the remote, the spot is there for the LED's, but it does not have them. Not the biggest deal, but it would be nice to have an indicator of some kind. 

HillBillySQ is having some issues with his 8x12 in that when he mutes channels, it is not muting fully, but mine is not having that problem. That's the only problem I have really seen.


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## Theslaking

The remote isn't the same as the 6x8? That has indicator lights.


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## Hillbilly SQ

The buttons light up to show you which preset is being used. To be honest it looks like they use the same remote for the 6x8 and 8x12. Function seems to be identical. As for my problem with channels not fully muting I'm working with tech support to fix this problem. Hopefully they exchange it.


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## Truthunter

Theslaking said:


> The remote isn't the same as the 6x8? That has indicator lights.


I believe he is talking about the volume control indicator LEDs which the manual shows and are supposed to be located to the left of the knob but they are missing on the actual remote. It does have LEDs for each preset button.


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## Truthunter

I heard naiku's car just last week and to be honest, the noise floor was basically non-existent. My car which has no processor, and other cars I've heard using other processors, have higher noise floors. So what I'm saying is that if posts about noise issues is keeping you from getting a C-DSP; Don't let it


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## Theslaking

Oh yeah volume indicator. 
They said there was a high noise floor with the 6x8 as well. It's very low. So that's doesn't scare me.


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## naiku

Truthunter said:


> I believe he is talking about the volume control indicator LEDs which the manual shows and are supposed to be located to the left of the knob but they are missing on the actual remote. It does have LEDs for each preset button.


Yup, preset lights are there, just no volume / sub volume indicator that the manual says is there. 



Truthunter said:


> I heard naiku's car just last week and to be honest, the noise floor was basically non-existent. My car which has no processor, and other cars I've heard using other processors, have higher noise floors. So what I'm saying is that if posts about noise issues is keeping you from getting a C-DSP; Don't let it


Maybe I am being slightly picky....  But, yep, the noise is not an issue and you should definitely not concern yourself with it. It's a great unit and in all honesty a bargain.


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## Theslaking

Well you know what this means


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## naiku

Theslaking said:


> Well you know what this means


Nice. I think you will be very happy with it


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## Hillbilly SQ

They're trying like hell to not have to exchange my 8x12. Don't blame them because I don't want to have to ship it back to Hong Kong.


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## Hillbilly SQ

I just tried what they told me to try in the software.. Naturally they're trying to pin my problem on me. If they don't honor my request to exchange this unit Ian said I could send it to him to physically test. As of now I feel like I wasted $500. They better make this right!


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## Theslaking

They gave me a hard time too. I almost gave up. Come to find out the firmware update I was uploading was corrupted to begin with. Once I redownload the firmware and updated the 6x8 again everything worked perfectly since


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## Hillbilly SQ

I've tried wiping out and then redoing the plugin download. Same thing. Doesn't say anything in the manual about using the supplied mini sd card to install anything into the unit unless you're doing a firmware update which I already have the latest 1.1 version from my user downloads.


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## Theslaking

For me it was the firmware itself. I had to delete it from the computer, redownload it then upload it to the unit.


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## naiku

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I just tried what they told me to try in the software.. Naturally they're trying to pin my problem on me. If they don't honor my request to exchange this unit Ian said I could send it to him to physically test. As of now I feel like I wasted $500. They better make this right!


It's a bit ridiculous that they are not making an exchange easy. I can't think of anything that you might have done that would be causing the muting issue you are having since muting is not exactly something you can configure. 

How fast are they responding to you? I am sure the time difference is not helping much!


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## Hillbilly SQ

They're responding next Hong Kong business day. To be honest if I wasn't on the L-R rearfill wagon I'd be running a Helix. And the amp that was running rears suddenly started causing ground loop noise when the 8x12 went in so am having to do the l-r thing with physical wiring to one channel of the 1200.6


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## Hillbilly SQ

I'm starting to think minidsp is the GEICO of processors. Yes I just had to drag them through the mud because that's who the at-fault had his cut-rate policy withAmazing how fast things start moving when you say you have a lawyer and am not afraid to use them. What they don't know is I was telling the truth about the lawyer! Hillbilly got friends in high places!


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## Theslaking

How long did it take from payment until delivery? I can't remember how long my 6x8 took.


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## naiku

Maybe a week, it was honestly a lot quicker than I expected since it came from HK.


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## Hillbilly SQ

I used "speed post" and got it in like 3 days. Wonder if I'll have to pay duty fees like I did the 6x8? Ian did you have to on yours or did they include it in the price this time?

Anyway, I'm finally getting somewhere. I'm sending them everything they ask for and saw some attachments where they pointed some "hey dumbass" stuff out, lol. I need to update the firmware. Looks like I need 1.2. Bout to go do that and see what happens.


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## naiku

Did not have to pay any duty fees, so they must have included it in the price already. Glad to hear you are making some progress on yours, is that 1.2 firmware new?


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## Hillbilly SQ

Not sure how new it is but it's the one they told me to use. btw still not working right. Firmware is installed though. I'm about ready to borrow a laptop to see if the problem is on my end. Or just ship it to you Ian to give a try since yours actually works properly.


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## Truthunter

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Not sure how new it is but it's the one they told me to use. btw still not working right. Firmware is installed though. I'm about ready to borrow a laptop to see if the problem is on my end. Or just ship it to you Ian to give a try since yours actually works properly.


My money is on user error oke:


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## Hillbilly SQ

Truthunter said:


> My money is on user error oke:


You're probably more correct in that statement than you intend to be. I sent them the bin file for them to nose around. I R pooter illiterate! Took several tries to get the firmware updated. I have learned quite a bit about the inner workings of a puter through this ONLY because I was forced to figure it out.:laugh:


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## Theslaking

Mine was a muting issue as well. I know others that got a no sound because they opened a plug-in for other mini products while they were connected to the 6x8.


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## naiku

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Not sure how new it is but it's the one they told me to use. btw still not working right. Firmware is installed though. I'm about ready to borrow a laptop to see if the problem is on my end. Or just ship it to you Ian to give a try since yours actually works properly.


I have not loaded your file to my DSP yet, but just opened it on the computer to have a look. I am not sure if MiniDSP support have had you try this yet. But, I noticed all your input gains are at +7.5dB and that apart from your sub output they are either +9.5dB or +12dB. 

Have you tried setting the input gains to 0dB and trying the mute to see if it makes a difference? My input gains are I think 0dB (forgot to look) and all of my output gains are in the -1 to -4db range. Might be worth trying to see if that makes any difference. 

Also, since you are using RCA in, have you double checked the input sensitivity switches to make sure they are in the correct place? 7.2 in the manual shows where they should be. No idea if you have tried all this or not, or if it even will have any effect, but may be worth the quick test and check.


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## Hillbilly SQ

I brought the input and output gains down to -72 and turned the master volume up to give me some output. Same thing. As for why my gains are where they are, that was from entering the tune I had with the 6x8 in there to get me by until I had time to get the 8x12 dialed in correctly. They're pulling out all the stops for troubleshooting. Everything I've sent them so far shows that the unit should be working. Next step is sending them a log file to show exactly what's going on while the problem is happening.


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## naiku

Figured you had already tried that, at least it sounds like they are being helpful. Although at this point, I think they should be exchanging it for you and troubleshooting or when they get it back.


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## Hillbilly SQ

Yeah I agree. Sadly I'm at their mercy at this point. I'm gonna try to make the log file in a bit and hopefully that will be the last of the troubleshooting emails. Right now I'm wishing I would have gotten a Helix p-six and sold my XDi1200.6 to recover some of the cost. I think the 20?ms of delay the Helix has would be "just enough" for rears. It would sure clean up my install!


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## dcfis

Id find a way to buy the p6 if it could bridge the back two channels. It's the craziest thing I've ever heard for an amp that's while reason to exist is it's flexibility


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## Theslaking

My 8x12 is here already. I ordered it Tuesday night. That's freaky fast. I ordered something from Virginia at the same time and that won't be here until tomorrow.


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## naiku

Wow, that is pretty damn fast. Now go install it and let us know what you think


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## Hillbilly SQ

Yeah they put afterburners on those packages!

So, I'm one of those people that tries to find the good in every problem. While frustrating, this issue is forcing me to learn things I would have never learned otherwise. DOS anyone?


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## Hillbilly SQ

I'm at wits end here. I'm drawing the line at being walked through writing DOS type code to make a log file. I just asked if I could send my unit to Ian for him to test and answer the question me and minidsp have been trying to answer for nearly 2 weeks now...*IS MY 8X12 DEFECTIVE OR IS IT USER ERROR ON MY PART?!?*


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## Weightless

Hey Hillbilly, how are you muting it? Via the controller or directly in the software? Does it not mute all channels or just one? What's your matrix look like? 

I can look it over too if you need another set of eyes on it for testing. 

Let me know your set up (just the minidsp settings), send me your config too. I have one here and i can mock up your system too see of it is indeed you're file or your unit.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## naiku

Justin, I think he has tried muting both ways.

Chris, will pm or email you my address.


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## Weightless

Interesting issue. 

Have you loaded his file into your unit yet? If so, what did you find?

Chris, is it a muting issue with all of the outputs? How much level is coming out? Full out or attenuated?

Have you asked how much attenuation is applied to the mute function? It's possible it is not as much of a cut so it still passes some content. Some commercial dsp's allow for adjustable attenuation, so it's a thought. 

If after doing everything they suggest and you still don't have a resolution, make a short video of it happening and send it to them so they can see it for themselves.

They say a picture speaks a thousand words...sometimes a video speaks a thousand pictures, lol.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Hillbilly SQ

It attenuates most of the way but still has very audible content coming out. If I mute all the outputs it attenuates, mute all inputs and it attenuates more, mute with remote and more still but still not totally silent. A mute should be all or nothing. I can use my fader and balance to isolate each front speaker, but to do rta work I'd have to unplug the rears and sub to silence them. Well...guess I could highpass and lowpass the rears and subs at 20k to silence them. My hearing drops off at 16-17k. Big thing is I shouldn't have to take extra steps when there's a mute button that SHOULD be working. I proposed having a 3rd party 8x12 owner test this thing to answer the burning question of whether it's my unit or my computer. I think everything else is working OK. 

I proposed my simple test to them. What they've been trying to talk me through on the computer end has been a tragic comedy. This processor NEEDS a 3rd party test and Ian has been nice enough to take on the task. The video of it happening is a good idea. I have a sneaky feeling they think I'm full of ****. You know what though, I'll be at Al's g2g next month with people way smarter than I am. Might see if he or someone else will load the software and plug into it so I don't have to spend money on shipping to Ian.


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## naiku

Well, it's nothing in the tune file that you sent me. Loaded it to mine, muted channels and silence. I did have to swap the input to toslink, may try another test later using a 3.5mm to RCA input if I can find time, but I am betting you have a faulty unit.


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## Hillbilly SQ

I pretty well laid it all out in my email that they'll see tonight. My patience is wearing thin and it's getting harder and harder to be professional about this. The stuff they're asking me to do on the computer end is way out of my comfort zone. They want me to collect a data log of how the processor and computer are communicating with each other.


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## Theslaking

They sent me a file that would log everything. All I had to do was download it and then email it back after the issue happened a few times. Don't lose your cool but at this point I feel your well within your right to demand an exchange. They also have a different view on everything in Hong Kong. I don't think it's purely a refusal to exchange. My friend goes there a few times a year as a manager for an electronics manufacturing plant. When I spent a week or two back and forth with Minidsp he made me see it from their cultural stand point. Repair not replace in the simplest terms.


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## Theslaking

However your problems has motivated me to go install mine now.


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## Weightless

If the muting issue is happening when you use the remote controller as well, then how the DSP and the PC communicates is a moot point. If it happens with the controller, pc to unit communication doesn't affect what you are experiencing.

Personally if after sending them a video and explaining that you have done enough troubleshooting, and explaining that you want the unit replaced and they still don't comply, I would demand my money back. I would also post on their internal forum as well.

I really like minidsp products, but this is ******** how they are responding to a faulty unit.

How are they wanting you to pull logs? Internally in the DSP software or via command prompt? How long do the logs take to extract? 



Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Hillbilly SQ

Command prompt on the logs. I asked for further explanation. I'm doing everything they tell me to or at least to the best of my ability. I'm pretty computer illiterate. At this point I'm having buyers remorse.


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## naiku

Weightless said:


> I would also post on their internal forum as well.
> 
> I really like minidsp products, but this is ******** how they are responding to a faulty unit.


He already has a post on their forum, traffic is pretty slow over there though. I agree with you on how they are responding to this not making them look good at all. I mean there are half a dozen of us who own one responding to this thread, I have no idea on sales numbers, but on a popular forum like this it does not take much to put off a large number of buyers.



Hillbilly SQ said:


> Command prompt on the logs. I asked for further explanation. I'm doing everything they tell me to or at least to the best of my ability. I'm pretty computer illiterate. At this point I'm having buyers remorse.


Can't say I blame you at all, I get different cultures etc, but after having to go back and forth for 2 weeks on something, when in all honesty, after the first thing you tried did not prove anything, they should have offered to exchange the unit. It's pretty ridiculous having you be using command prompt to pull logs and the constant back and forth. I am sure if they had exchanged it by now, you would not only already have the new unit in place, with hopefully no issues, but also be a happy customer.


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## beak81champ

They should have exchanged it, and done all this testing themselves when they received the unit back.


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## Hillbilly SQ

I'll know in the morning what they want to do. If I turn everything off in the routing I still get sound coming through. Part of me thinks the problem is on my end which is why I want to plug in with a different computer just to see.


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## Hillbilly SQ

And if things go sour I have no problem starting a thread titled "I got burned by minidsp".


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## naiku

beak81champ said:


> They should have exchanged it, and done all this testing themselves when they received the unit back.


That's what I think they should have done.



Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'll know in the morning what they want to do. If I turn everything off in the routing I still get sound coming through. Part of me thinks the problem is on my end which is why I want to plug in with a different computer just to see.


Is it worth you starting a thread asking if anyone is near by with a computer you could try using? Not sure who is within reasonable distance to you, if you were within an hour or so of here I would drive out with the laptop. Or, even if you know someone with a laptop you can install the software on and try just to rule it out.


----------



## Weightless

Wait, you still get routing when all crosspoints are disabled in the matrix?

So technically, you can mute the signal in 3 places. At the input, at the output, by unrouting in the matrix. 

Just to simplify things. Unplug all signal wires except input 1 and output 1. Play a song,not sine wave, but a song. Route input 1 to output 1. Everything ummuted, all levels at 0. You should at this point hear the song at the output. 

What happens when you mute the output? Still signal? What happens when you unroute in the matrix? Still signal? What happens when the input is routed? (Even with the output muted and matrix unrouted) 

How many inputs and outputs are you using? Does it happen on all inputs? All outputs?

If it is muted on both the input and output while not routed in the matrix, it sounds like you have bleedover or crosstalk somewhere in the DSP. 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I don't think I know anyone super local that has a laptop that can be used for this. They're all either not powerful enough (Walmart special) or used for work and ONLY work. Lemme text my buddy and see what he has on hand...


----------



## Weightless

Yeah, it sucks. If I were closer I would bring my laptop and 8x12 for testing. Methinks you have a faulty unit.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Weightless

Also forgot to ask. When muting from the controller, where does it mute? The input, crosspoint or the output?

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## oabeieo

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I pretty well laid it all out in my email that they'll see tonight. My patience is wearing thin and it's getting harder and harder to be professional about this. The stuff they're asking me to do on the computer end is way out of my comfort zone. They want me to collect a data log of how the processor and computer are communicating with each other.



It's a crash log. I've had to send them to them before.
They can't make a fix for some things without it. It's actually very easy to do and there instructions are good.

Also it helps them get a fix for the community as diffrent computers use diffrent libraries and such and processors Lala Lala lala etc etc


I worked with them on my HDs when they are below freezing don't have audio, 
I sent them logs it took them about 3 weeks to get a fix. They sent me a perfect instruction on removing two resistors from the board. Problems solved !

Although it does seem better business to just send out a new one, but the issue is for them the overseas shipping is not cheap, and to offer the product at the price we pay, we need to be a little bit patient and understand that this is the only way to give support that makes fiscal sence. They test everything before it leaves so by in large a lot of issues is compatibility. Yes somethings break and need returned, otoh there's a ton of different types of computers and sometimes getting everything to communicate is a pain.

I've had Windows pc since windows 3.1 back in 1990 and every operating system since on a plethora of diffrent machines and seems every stinkin time I change the audio sound card I've had some sort of issues. 
Even when reading the compatibility and instructions to the T. 
Something about audio and sound drivers and hardware windows machines always have some sort of hiccups. 


Accessing the mute seems a possible configuration problem.
Does it do it when you restore configuration ?

Also, have you tried loading the software on a different pc? 

Every time I thought they were ignoring me they were just busy and the more I tryed calling them out the more they gave me the big **** you. 

If your patient with them they will resolve the issue. 
The Chinese think different than us and do business in a different manner. They are all about respect and such , 

Like if a Chinese airplane crashes and kills all the passengers here in the United States the families get a payout settlement from the airlines. Over there the owner of the airlines goes to the families houses and says sorry and that's it. No payout.

There good folks over there, just be patient. I had to go a whole winter with the first 10min of my drive no audio waiting for dsp to warm up, they created a fix and now I'm happy. Heck they even helped me engineer my own external dac and tap into the i2s bus on my HDs.

Best of luck


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I'm using 4 inputs and 6 outputs right now. Yes it sounds like bleedover to me as well. The end of this week the old setup will be going back in but will do more tests when I pull the processor of its perch. Yes all signal cables are in the correct place. The routing page is flaky as hell for me.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I'll load it on to a different machine if I can get my hands on one. Yes I've restored to factory default twice. I've tried everything else they have suggested too.


----------



## Theslaking

All hooked up. Now I have turn off pop. Damnit. I believe I can set the delay. Anyone know how off the top of their head? 

The real problem - I have no sub woofer. The sub volume does not change from -115db. I know how to use it as I have owned the c-dsp for a while. I switch to two blinking lights and nothing. I manually input the volume and immediately reverts back to -115.


----------



## Theslaking

Well I figured out that you have to set the sub woofer output channels in the display menu. This gave me control of the subwoofer master volume however I still have no output from the subwoofer Channel. Volume goes up and down now no sound. I also tried changing the delay for turn on/off pop. Adjusting it more or less has no effect. The pop is immediately as I turn the key off there's no delay whatsoever. I tried hooking my 6 by 12 backup no pop no hiss sub woofer works fine.


----------



## naiku

Beginning to think I was lucky in just getting a hiss noise from mine! I do sometimes notice either my master volume or sub volume gets set to 0. But, I have yet to notice a pattern since it does not always do it.

I am sure you already checked it, but routing tab set correctly as well as the output tab?


----------



## naiku

Not sure how to edit on my phone... That's really weird that you get no sub and turn on pop, yet with your old mini it all works fine.

Curious to know who else has one of these and if they are getting issues.


----------



## dcfis

Id like to know that cold weather delay fix



oabeieo said:


> It's a crash log. I've had to send them to them before.
> They can't make a fix for some things without it. It's actually very easy to do and there instructions are good.
> 
> Also it helps them get a fix for the community as diffrent computers use diffrent libraries and such and processors Lala Lala lala etc etc
> 
> 
> I worked with them on my HDs when they are below freezing don't have audio,
> I sent them logs it took them about 3 weeks to get a fix. They sent me a perfect instruction on removing two resistors from the board. Problems solved !
> 
> Although it does seem better business to just send out a new one, but the issue is for them the overseas shipping is not cheap, and to offer the product at the price we pay, we need to be a little bit patient and understand that this is the only way to give support that makes fiscal sence. They test everything before it leaves so by in large a lot of issues is compatibility. Yes somethings break and need returned, otoh there's a ton of different types of computers and sometimes getting everything to communicate is a pain.
> 
> I've had Windows pc since windows 3.1 back in 1990 and every operating system since on a plethora of diffrent machines and seems every stinkin time I change the audio sound card I've had some sort of issues.
> Even when reading the compatibility and instructions to the T.
> Something about audio and sound drivers and hardware windows machines always have some sort of hiccups.
> 
> 
> Accessing the mute seems a possible configuration problem.
> Does it do it when you restore configuration ?
> 
> Also, have you tried loading the software on a different pc?
> 
> Every time I thought they were ignoring me they were just busy and the more I tryed calling them out the more they gave me the big **** you.
> 
> If your patient with them they will resolve the issue.
> The Chinese think different than us and do business in a different manner. They are all about respect and such ,
> 
> Like if a Chinese airplane crashes and kills all the passengers here in the United States the families get a payout settlement from the airlines. Over there the owner of the airlines goes to the families houses and says sorry and that's it. No payout.
> 
> There good folks over there, just be patient. I had to go a whole winter with the first 10min of my drive no audio waiting for dsp to warm up, they created a fix and now I'm happy. Heck they even helped me engineer my own external dac and tap into the i2s bus on my HDs.
> 
> Best of luck


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I'm going to hold off updates on what's going on until a solution is reached.


----------



## Theslaking

naiku said:


> Not sure how to edit on my phone... That's really weird that you nget no sub and turn on pop, yet with your old mini it all works fine.
> 
> Curious to know who else has one of these and if they are getting issues.


What's even weirder is I put in two regular 2x4's for trouble shooting and they work perfectly as well. The strange part is I had to turn the gains way down. The max output of the 2x4 is .9. The max of the 8x12 is supposed to be 6. So is the 8x12 even giving the signal output they expect? Is that why are getting noise?


----------



## Theslaking

If I didn't mention it I have a big noise floor with this unit as well. None with the 6x8. If my issues get solved over the next few days I will be happy and willing to recommend. I know what signed up for.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

We'll get this stuff worked out one way or another.


----------



## Weightless

I brought my 8x12 in to bench test to see if there are any issues found. 

Hillbilly, do you have the ability to test with a digital input only? That way you bypass the adc?

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## naiku

Theslaking said:


> If I didn't mention it I have a big noise floor with this unit as well.


Somewhat glad that others are getting noise with the 8x12 as well, somebody replied to a thread I posted on the MiniDSP forum that they are getting noise. Honestly, mine is a non issue now, but coming from the Helix that was completely silent it was a bit of a shock having to manipulate gains in order to reduce the 8x12 noise. 



Hillbilly SQ said:


> We'll get this stuff worked out one way or another.


Really hoping you both get all the issues sorted out. I want to hear some more thoughts on how it performs overall, and also get to listen to a couple more at some meets in the future.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Weightless said:


> I brought my 8x12 in to bench test to see if there are any issues found.
> 
> Hillbilly, do you have the ability to test with a digital input only? That way you bypass the adc?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


I could get an optical cable to run from the preamp behind the factory screen to the dsp. I guess the 8x12 takes optical anyway. Anyone have an optical cable I can borrow? 10' or longer will do it. I'd just like to try it for comparison sake.


----------



## naiku

I have 2 but they are only 6' long if that might work let me know and you can have one.


----------



## Weightless

So I finally had a chance to bench it and I do have a noise floor, but it needs to be maxed out. Like ear bleeding loud. 

I routed channel 1 and 2 to each output and tried muting and everything muted correctly. 

As far as volume control goes, the levels read depending on which volume you are controlling from the controller. The main volume knob controls all audio out. When the knob is pressed, it controls the volume for what you have assigned under the sub volume. They are independent volume controls. 

It sucks we are not closer. I would love to bench it. 

Btw, you mentioned walmart special laptops...they should still be powerful enough to connect to the dsp. The requirements are minimal at best. 

I should be able to get mine installed in my car within a week or so, so hopefully I can test some more in a proper environment. 

Good luck all...


----------



## Weightless

Oh, and btw, I have no idea where it mutes it. You have an input mute, crosspoint attenuate, output mute, and master mute. When you press master mute, it doesn't show where it is muting. Weird. The levels still show on the input side so I am guessing it mutes the outputs but just doesn't give visible feedback.


----------



## Weightless

Theslaking said:


> Well I figured out that you have to set the sub woofer output channels in the display menu. This gave me control of the subwoofer master volume however I still have no output from the subwoofer Channel. Volume goes up and down now no sound. I also tried changing the delay for turn on/off pop. Adjusting it more or less has no effect. The pop is immediately as I turn the key off there's no delay whatsoever. I tried hooking my 6 by 12 backup no pop no hiss sub woofer works fine.



When you adjusted the delay in/out. which remote mode do you have selected?


----------



## Theslaking

What do you mean as far as remote mode? Anyway I narrowed the pop a little more. It's anytime I remove the input from the DSP. Whether it be switching sources, totally stopping playback, or pulling out the RCA's. Of course turning off.


----------



## Weightless

There is a switch to the right of the remote in/out plug. Make sure you have it set to position 2. 

See if that makes a difference with the delayed on/off.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Theslaking

Yeah that's set to two.


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## Velozity

Wow, just getting caught up here on all the issues you guys are having. Once I get amps back in my truck I'll be happy to test any of your units. I've got experience with both C-DSPs. To date no issues whatsoever with either.


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## Hillbilly SQ

I really want this 8x12 to work for me because I really like the minidsp software. Maybe it's just what I'm used to...but anyway, I THINK I successfully sent them a flash log. It was labeled as "TWAIN" and it looked like it had codes from being plugged into the dsp. Pretty sure it had text added after the original log creation. We'll see where this goes. I'll report back if/when we can get this figured out. Hopefully this ordeal will help people in the future if they have similar problems that are beyond strange. I will give minidsp credit for being very prompt with email replies and walking me through stuff. Last night was the first time they haven't responded next business day and that's probably because they're going through the flash log I sent or maybe just busy in general.


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## Theslaking

Well some good news for me. The sub output started working. I don't know what I did. I did all the testing to be positive it was the DSP. I the decided to reset and upgrade again. Still didn't work. I gave up for the night a closed the laptop. Rumble, rumble. What was that? Was that bass? Opened the laptop and the output meter was registering now! It was intermittent for 2-3 minutes then started working. I checked this morning and still working. So I guess I just have a pop to figure out. Minidsp just responded to me this morning so the fun begins.


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## Hillbilly SQ

Glad you got it worked out...sorta. Now if I can just get this flash log to work. They simplified the process for me so maybe I can figure it out. This will tell them for sure how the cow ate the cabbage. I'm about to go back to a real amp rack and have better wire separation. They did mention possible cross talk between wires somehow and I don't like how messy wiring gets in my tire well. Nearly impossible to keep wiring neat in there. I know I said I wouldn't update until a solution was reached but just letting y'all know they're going above and beyond to fix this problem. My problem is flat out strange but they're not giving up. A lot of companies should take notes from minidsp on how to handle things.


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## naiku

I am glad to hear they are really trying to help you out, I am sure for you it is incredibly frustrating, but at least they are being helpful to the point you are commending them for it. 

Hopefully, this gets squared away for you soon!


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## Hillbilly SQ

I told them my plan of action in my most recent email and will get back to them next week after the new amp rack with proper wire separation is done. It really does sound like it could be cross talk coming from somewhere. They laid everything out in steps that even a hillbilly can understand though

EDIT: I see rton20's lurking. You got a meme for the caveman/hillbilly comparison?


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## rton20s

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I told them my plan of action in my most recent email and will get back to them next week after the new amp rack with proper wire separation is done. It really does sound like it could be cross talk coming from somewhere. They laid everything out in steps that even a hillbilly can understand though
> 
> EDIT: I see rton20's lurking. You got a meme for the caveman/hillbilly comparison?


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## Theslaking

I'm pretty sure that's a selfie.


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## naiku

Any updates on your issues Chris?


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## Theslaking

I can tell with me they asked me to send it back to them yesterday. Everything has been working perfectly except the pop noise.


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## Hillbilly SQ

No updates. Probably get out there tomorrow when I'm fresh. Been working like a rented pack mule with mandatory OT. 

They did mention possible cross talk from a wire still getting signal. Two of my short rca cables are directional Stinger 4000's. There's no arrows on them though to see which end the drain wire is on. Just weren't any arrows on that length that can't be much over a foot. I wonder if a directional cable connected backwards could "sum" signal? That would also explain why I get bad ground noise when I hook up the rear fill amp. I can sum tons of noise if I hook up a Y connector and leave one of the forks unhooked. My cable going from 6ch Pac unit behind the factory screen is a 6ch Stinger 4000 with all 6 channels hooked up (refuse to leave rca ends dangling if I don't have to). YES signal is flowing correctly with the arrows on the cable and YES I have made sure everything is hooked up correctly and routing done correctly in the software.


----------



## Weightless

If there is crosstalk or channel bleed, it is in the unit. Your cabling should have nothingto do with it. 

If you mute your circuit, audio should mute. If you are still seeing the mete bounce or you hear audio on the output, there is something wrong with the unit.

Do you have a small headphone amp or something to feed the output from dsp so you can bypass your system? You can use your phone directly to the dsp for source. This way you totally bypass your install as the culprit.



Hillbilly SQ said:


> No updates. Probably get out there tomorrow when I'm fresh. Been working like a rented pack mule with mandatory OT.
> 
> They did mention possible cross talk from a wire still getting signal. Two of my short rca cables are directional Stinger 4000's. There's no arrows on them though to see which end the drain wire is on. Just weren't any arrows on that length that can't be much over a foot. I wonder if a directional cable connected backwards could "sum" signal? That would also explain why I get bad ground noise when I hook up the rear fill amp. I can sum tons of noise if I hook up a Y connector and leave one of the forks unhooked. My cable going from 6ch Pac unit behind the factory screen is a 6ch Stinger 4000 with all 6 channels hooked up (refuse to leave rca ends dangling if I don't have to). YES signal is flowing correctly with the arrows on the cable and YES I have made sure everything is hooked up correctly and routing done correctly in the software.


Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Hillbilly SQ

I'll be in Alabama around car audio peeps way smarter than me. We'll see what we can come up with. I'm about to do the most recent things minidsp told me to do and attempt to do the flash log again. If all else fails I'll turn the reigns over to someone who can actually do it.

They claim to have tested it to work perfectly 3 times before shipping it out, but I've seen things that were straight-up flukes happen for no good reason so anything's possible. What I had to do to make my FIX82 calibrate to my factory amp is a perfect example of something that flat out didn't make sense. If this hobby has taught me anything over the years it's to NEVER rule out the impossible. And to never give up on something if the light at the end of the tunnel is more than just a freight train coming at you.


----------



## Weightless

Good luck with your testing. 

As for testing it 3 times before shipping...it only takes the 4th time to fail. It's not a big deal that electronics fail. It's how it is dealt with that matters. 

I hope they do something for you. To me, it would be totally unacceptable that it has dragged on as long as it has. 

I understand that it would be expensive to ship another unit, but that is on them. They were aware of the risks.

What I find interesting is that they replaced one for another member here who started having issues after you did. Or did i read that wrong. Dunno...

Anywau, good luck.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Theslaking

You read it right. That's why I answered when he asked Chris directly. Just to let you know they already gave me the info to send it back. One thing I learned was if you use the 6x8 remote with the 8x12 you'll break it.


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## Hillbilly SQ

Right now I feel like a guy with low sperm count trying to get a woman pregnant. They want me to send them a flash log because they think it's a corrupted file. I can't for the life of me create a flash log. I've already talked to Al about hooking this thing up at his meet in a few weeks with totally different equipment around the dsp to see what happens. Then and ONLY then will we know if it's the processor or my computer (they keep saying I'm doing something wrong but I don't think I am). I told them they'd hear from me in about 3 weeks after a couple people way smarter than me have a crack at this stupid flash log. They sent me a debug zip file to make doing the flash log easier but THE ZIPPED FILE WON'T UNZIP! Yes they're trying their best to help me get this problem solved but my patience is about to run out. As I age I'm more patient but my fuse is getting shorter. That can be a bad thing because people don't realize I'm pissed/frustrated/whatever until it's too late!

For the time being my two minidsp products that the 8x12 was supposed to replace are back in the install. Difference is MY TWO OLDER UNITS ACTUALLY WORK LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO!!!!!


----------



## audiodelic

I recently installed a 8x12 in my car with a 3 way active setup. I am getting a subtle hiss in both channels and at one point I could hear my left channel picking up the local radio interference in my tweeter and midrange, the hiss/radio noise is not audible with music playing, but we all want that quiet noise floor ideally.

When I press mute button on the dsp the hiss goes away. I am also in the process of relaying new rca from the dsp to amplifiers away from the power wires to rule out that its not the rca picking up this noise. 

It could also be a gain matching issue between the digital gains on the dsp and analogue gain on the amplifiers.

The worst part of this dsp is you cannot switch between analogue and digital sources with the wired remote, you need to buy the ir remote, also no display of subwoofer or main volume on the wired remote, something that most other dsp do easily.


----------



## naiku

Theslaking said:


> You read it right. That's why I answered when he asked Chris directly. Just to let you know they already gave me the info to send it back. One thing I learned was if you use the 6x8 remote with the 8x12 you'll break it.


Honestly, I was a little surprised that they are having you return yours so quickly. Are the remotes not identical? They look it, but something internally must be different I guess.



Hillbilly SQ said:


> They sent me a debug zip file to make doing the flash log easier but THE ZIPPED FILE WON'T UNZIP!


Email me over the file, will see if I can unzip it and send it back to you.


----------



## Theslaking

naiku said:


> Honestly, I was a little surprised that they are having you return yours so quickly. Are the remotes not identical? They look it, but something internally must be different I guess.


They told me the firmware was totally different and if I used the wrong remote the language difference could damage the DSP. I also suggested they make that clear for new buyers as I know a few people that just used the 6x8 remote when they upgraded. I definitely did us the wrong remote. I don't seem to have any I'll effects but it very well could by why I had the lack of subs output issue to begin with.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Me and Naiku did the Team Viewer thing to get that flash log. Minidsp reviewed it and my replacement has shipped. Guess they decided the problem was on their end. I kinda figured it was. When I hooked the second amp up to run rearfill the ground noise squealed like a stuck hog which made me think there was some bleeding going on in the rca plugs somehow. I doubt I'll get it installed by the Alabama meet unless it gets here by the middle of next week but it's all good. I'm very happy with what I've squeezed out of the 6x8 and 2x4 combo I'm running.


----------



## naiku

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Minidsp reviewed it and my replacement has shipped.


Woohoo!!! Glad to hear it. If I had known that is all it would have taken would have tried to help pull the log sooner. 

Out of curiosity, do you mind emailing the log to me? I want to compare it to the log I ran and see if there is anything obvious that they must have spotted.


----------



## Weightless

Im glad they replaced it for you. Im assuming they are sending you a return label to ship the faulty one back?

Btw, I love teamviewer. I use it almost daily...it is sooo much better than logmein.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## naiku

Yep, TeamViewer is great. The Android app works nicely as well. Mostly I use it to make changes to the HTPC/Plex server, but have also used it to help friends and family back in the UK getting things squared away.

I wonder if there is such a thing as TeamViewer for your car.... Electrical issues driving me nuts with mine.


----------



## Velozity

audiodelic said:


> I recently installed a 8x12 in my car with a 3 way active setup. I am getting a subtle hiss in both channels and at one point I could hear my left channel picking up the local radio interference in my tweeter and midrange, the hiss/radio noise is not audible with music playing, but we all want that quiet noise floor ideally.
> 
> When I press mute button on the dsp the hiss goes away. I am also in the process of relaying new rca from the dsp to amplifiers away from the power wires to rule out that its not the rca picking up this noise.
> 
> It could also be a gain matching issue between the digital gains on the dsp and analogue gain on the amplifiers.
> 
> The worst part of this dsp is you cannot switch between analogue and digital sources with the wired remote, you need to buy the ir remote, also no display of subwoofer or main volume on the wired remote, something that most other dsp do easily.



I just installed new amps tonight and haven't set the gains yet. The hiss everyone is talking about is there, whereas it wasn't when I had the Tru amps installed and dialed in properly. 
Yes you certainly can switch between analog and digital sources with the remote. Just assign each one to a preset. I do it all the time when switching between my iPad and aux input.






Theslaking said:


> They told me the firmware was totally different and if I used the wrong remote the language difference could damage the DSP. I also suggested they make that clear for new buyers as I know a few people that just used the 6x8 remote when they upgraded. I definitely did us the wrong remote. I don't seem to have any I'll effects but it very well could by why I had the lack of subs output issue to begin with.




I'm using my modified 6x8 remote with my 8x12. No issues. I did upgrade the remote firmware to the latest version while I still had the 6x8 though. Maybe they're talking about the earlier firmware?


----------



## Arete

After reading through this entire thread I'm hesitant on getting this unit. I really want a Helix but can only afford the one with 8 channels. I know down the road I'm going to want/need more channels then that. Though when it comes down to it it if it's between weeks of dealing with the headache of faulty hardware and saving longer for the Helix Pro I think I'm leaning toward the latter. 

Also, I run Linux. Specifically Ubuntu... well Ubuntu Budgie.... can this unit be hooked up using Linux? How about the Helix? I don't even dual boot anymore with Linux and Windows. It is JUST Linux now. If not compatible I'm wondering if I can set up using a Windows virtual machine or WINE on Linux. 

Anyone know? Thanks


----------



## Theslaking

Velozity said:


> I'm using my modified 6x8 remote with my 8x12. No issues. I did upgrade the remote firmware to the latest version while I still had the 6x8 though. Maybe they're talking about the earlier firmware?


Yeah I also used my 6x8 remote with no issues but they explicitly expressed their discontent. They must have had some issues. Maybe certain commands have different meaning to their respective units and it confuses the CPU. Who knows. They definitely let me know it was potentially very bad.


----------



## Porgy

Was considering buying but I think I'm going to wait a bit longer till final verdict is in. That hiss sounds like maybe a deal breaker?


----------



## naiku

Arete said:


> After reading through this entire thread I'm hesitant on getting this unit. I really want a Helix but can only afford the one with 8 channels. I know down the road I'm going to want/need more channels then that. Though when it comes down to it it if it's between weeks of dealing with the headache of faulty hardware and saving longer for the Helix Pro I think I'm leaning toward the latter.


Tough choice, if you don't need something now I would be tempted to save for the Helix. I don't think you would have any problems with the MiniDSP if you got one though, Hillbilly has been the only actual failure I have read about and the hiss can be cured almost entirely. 



Arete said:


> Also, I run Linux. Specifically Ubuntu... well Ubuntu Budgie.... can this unit be hooked up using Linux? How about the Helix? I don't even dual boot anymore with Linux and Windows. It is JUST Linux now. If not compatible I'm wondering if I can set up using a Windows virtual machine or WINE on Linux.
> 
> Anyone know? Thanks


Pretty certain neither of them are compatible with Ubuntu, more than likely you are going to have to set up a virtual machine. 



Porgy said:


> Was considering buying but I think I'm going to wait a bit longer till final verdict is in. That hiss sounds like maybe a deal breaker?


Honestly, I think I was the first person to start complaining about the hiss with the 8x12. While I am glad that I am not the only person who is experiencing it, you should not let it influence your decision that much. Mine is now virtually non-existent, it just takes a fair bit of gain tweaking both within the DSP and at the amps to get it sorted. 

For what you get, at the price point, it's a great unit and the hiss is manageable.


----------



## Velozity

I second what Ian said. The hiss is manageable with proper gain structure. This DSP is hands-down the best value for the money, and has all the features most people would ever want. I just fired up rear-fill (just rear doors at the is point) for the first time and holy ****balls, it is the most amazing improvement you never know is there. Rear fill blows my whole front stage out of the windshield. Who knew?!


----------



## naiku

Velozity said:


> I just fired up rear-fill (just rear doors at the is point) for the first time and holy ****balls, it is the most amazing improvement you never know is there. Rear fill blows my whole front stage out of the windshield.


I really need to meet up with someone running rear fill, mine does not seem to increase the stage depth all that much. But, instead adds a really nice amount of width.


----------



## Arete

Velozity said:


> I second what Ian said. The hiss is manageable with proper gain structure. This DSP is hands-down the best value for the money, and has all the features most people would ever want. I just fired up rear-fill (just rear doors at the is point) for the first time and holy ****balls, it is the most amazing improvement you never know is there. Rear fill blows my whole front stage out of the windshield. Who knew?!


Thanks for the feedback. 


How does Dirac Live incorporate in the car audio environment? Is there a way to do it? This seems like a cool feature.


----------



## naiku

Arete said:


> How does Dirac Live incorporate in the car audio environment? Is there a way to do it? This seems like a cool feature.


At the moment it looks like there is no simple way, looks like you need to use different pieces of equipment, see here for some details:

https://www.minidsp.com/forum/car-a...-live-in-car-a-shared-experience?limitstart=0

I know people, myself included, have been asking if MiniDSP will update the 8x12 to offer Dirac support, so far nothing though. 

https://www.minidsp.com/forum/software-support/13286-c-dsp-8x12-dirac-support#34138

From reading that thread though, it sounds like several people have asked for it, but they are giving no indication as to if it is something that are working on or not.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

naiku said:


> I really need to meet up with someone running rear fill, mine does not seem to increase the stage depth all that much. But, instead adds a really nice amount of width.


What size are the speakers being used for rears and where are they located? The factory 2.75"? speakers in my d-pillars push the stage up, forward, and out. They're also both nearly on axis.


----------



## naiku

Hillbilly SQ said:


> What size are the speakers being used for rears and where are they located? The factory 2.75"? speakers in my d-pillars push the stage up, forward, and out. They're also both nearly on axis.


6.5" and located in the bottom corner of the rear doors. You can see the grill here: 









With the drivers seat in place for me, those fire almost directly across the back of the seat. Which could explain why they make the stage wider for me. 

I have to pull one of the D-pillars off later to try and figure out why half the electrics in my tailgate are not working. Might look and see if there is room in there to install some small speakers to experiment. Although I don't want to cut up the d-pillars if it makes no difference, or makes things worse.

Did you get your new unit yet?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Didn't get it yet. Haven't checked tracking in a couple days but gut feeling says it will be here today. Won't have time to install and tune it before Al's meet but might take it with me and hook it up there to test if we feel industrious.

On rears 400-3000 with 24ms of delay seems to be working well.


----------



## Velozity

naiku said:


> I really need to meet up with someone running rear fill, mine does not seem to increase the stage depth all that much. But, instead adds a really nice amount of width.



It's probably also dependent on your front speaker placement and vehicle structure. In my suv it works out. It's not drastic but it's a definite improvement. It also depends on the song. Live recordings and well-engineered studio recordings benefit most. The best way I can describe it is rear fill adds "room" to the experience. The music sounds less confined (more ambiance). It was certainly worth the effort to install four new speakers and run two new RCA cables.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Velozity said:


> It's probably also dependent on your front speaker placement and vehicle structure. In my suv it works out. It's not drastic but it's a definite improvement. It also depends on the song. Live recordings and well-engineered studio recordings benefit most. The best way I can describe it is rear fill adds "room" to the experience. The music sounds less confined (more ambiance). It was certainly worth the effort to install four new speakers and run two new RCA cables.


My 2-way front in stock locations is pretty "BLEH" without rears adding the secret sauce. It really helps get the sound out of my face while driving. Short legs and my butt's getting smaller causing the seat to have to inch up more and more. On the flip side I was doing l/r eq work in a fellow diyma member's Audi Q5 with tweets on axis in sail pods and 7's in doors. When I was done with l/r eq the stage was way out on the hood. In his case rears would help add space but his stage is plenty deep and wide without it.


----------



## Flyhogz

Hillbilly SQ said:


> My 2-way front in stock locations is pretty "BLEH" without rears adding the secret sauce. It really helps get the sound out of my face while driving. Short legs and my butt's getting smaller causing the seat to have to inch up more and more. On the flip side I was doing l/r eq work in a fellow diyma member's Audi Q5 with tweets on axis in sail pods and 7's in doors. When I was done with l/r eq the stage was way out on the hood. In his case rears would help add space but his stage is plenty deep and wide without it.




Big props to Chris on helping me clean up my front stage!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Arete

Hillbilly SQ said:


> My 2-way front in stock locations is pretty "BLEH" without rears adding the secret sauce. It really helps get the sound out of my face while driving. Short legs and my butt's getting smaller causing the seat to have to inch up more and more. On the flip side I was doing l/r eq work in a fellow diyma member's Audi Q5 with tweets on axis in sail pods and 7's in doors. When I was done with l/r eq the stage was way out on the hood. In his case rears would help add space but his stage is plenty deep and wide without it.


When you say "out on the hood". What is it that you think makes this occur? My stage is basically sitting across my dash. The thought of the sound extending outside of the car is very peculiar.... almost seems physically impossible or sci fi like. The sound waves aren't ACTUALLY extending out the car... it's just the illusion correct?


----------



## BigAl205

Arete said:


> When you say "out on the hood". What is it that you think makes this occur? My stage is basically sitting across my dash. The thought of the sound extending outside of the car is very peculiar.... almost seems physically impossible or sci fi like. The sound waves aren't ACTUALLY extending out the car... it's just the illusion correct?


It's very similar to the phenomenon you experience when listening to a home theater with surround sound. The rear channel echoes the front, but the long delay tricks your brain into thinking your listening venue is much bigger than it is.


----------



## Arete

BigAl205 said:


> It's very similar to the phenomenon you experience when listening to a home theater with surround sound. The rear channel echoes the front, but the long delay tricks your brain into thinking your listening venue is much bigger than it is.


So the rear channel is what creates this effect? Is this delay set the same way the fronts are set? Or something a bit different?


----------



## naiku

Velozity said:


> It's probably also dependent on your front speaker placement and vehicle structure. In my suv it works out. It's not drastic but it's a definite improvement. It also depends on the song. Live recordings and well-engineered studio recordings benefit most. The best way I can describe it is rear fill adds "room" to the experience. The music sounds less confined (more ambiance).


Yep, agree entirely. Depending on how easily I can get to my amplifiers (and I have to pull the main interior panel off anyway that covers them), I am tempted to try a couple different spots in the trunk to see what, if any, difference it makes. I have the D-pillars as well as about a 3-4" wide shelf either side of the trunk. Might temporarily put some speakers I have in those spots just to hear if there is any difference. 



Arete said:


> it's just the illusion correct?


Basically yes.



Arete said:


> So the rear channel is what creates this effect? Is this delay set the same way the fronts are set? Or something a bit different?


The delays on the rears is much longer than you would have on the fronts. Typically for rear fill, it's around 20-25ms and playing 300-4000Hz or so. But, there is a lot of experimentation needed to get it just right.


----------



## Velozity

Arete said:


> So the rear channel is what creates this effect? Is this delay set the same way the fronts are set? Or something a bit different?





The rear channels improve the realism of this effect, but are not needed to create it. My stage was already pretty deep to begin with. Effective use of time alignment and speaker placement with the right amount of l/r EQ will give you hood depth. But it can sound like it's on the hood but still too "intimate". Rear fill gives space to the recording so that the venue (club, arena, studio, whatever) just sounds bigger and more life-like. As noted above, the delay should be set between 15-25ms depending on placemment to overcome the Haas Effect. There are many threads that go into detail about this topic from several years ago. Here is the best one: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/system-design-help-me-choose-equipment-my-car/9806-rear-fill-do-you-use.html


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Replacement came. They never said anything about returning the defective one. Guess the flash log showed that it wouldn't make sense to send it back because it would be useless to someone else anyway? Hope the replacement works. It would be in my best interest NOT to install it before leaving for Al's g2g less than 48 hours from now for obvious reasons. Seen too many cases of people doing last minute installs and/or tuning and ending up rolling up to a g2g saying "my tune is crap" or "my **** ain't working right for some reason". I'm mostly happy with the 6x8/2x4 tune so that's what they'll hear.


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## naiku

Weird, I would have wanted it back to try and figure out if something failed and if so what. Maybe they will send a return label via email once you are happy with the replacement or something. 

I completely understand not wanting to rush and get it installed before Al's meet this weekend. Wish I could make it, but not on the cards currently.


----------



## hockeythug

nm. wrong thread.


----------



## Arete

I wanted to share this with everyone. I emailed MiniDSP about their return policy. I basically asked if an item was defective if they would be willing to replace it. I guess through the site all sales are final. I attached the email to this post.

Here is the link they supplied for dealers.... https://www.minidsp.com/aboutus/minidsp-dealers


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## bnae38

Arete said:


> I wanted to share this with everyone. I emailed MiniDSP about their return policy. I basically asked if an item was defective if they would be willing to replace it. I guess through the site all sales are final. I attached the email to this post.
> 
> Here is the link they supplied for dealers.... https://www.minidsp.com/aboutus/minidsp-dealers


Wow.. lame.


----------



## WestCo

Wow x 2


----------



## naiku

You are misinterpreting them... Yes, all sales are final. As in, you buy something from us and change your mind, tough. 

If you buy something and it's defective, then they will work with you to resolve it and replace it.

http://support.minidsp.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1514654-what-do-i-do-if-there?s-a-fault-

Is it kind of crappy to not accept returns in the case of someone changing their mind. Sure, but at the same time it does make sense, and they state to make sure you order the correct item.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I'm with them on that. Shipping overseas cost a fortune.


----------



## Theslaking

It cost me 58 bucks. It arrived at their post office 5 days ago and they emailed today to tell me they received it today and will check it out within a week.


----------



## Arete

naiku said:


> You are misinterpreting them... Yes, all sales are final. As in, you buy something from us and change your mind, tough.
> 
> If you buy something and it's defective, then they will work with you to resolve it and replace it.
> 
> miniDSP | What do I do if there’s a fault?
> 
> Is it kind of crappy to not accept returns in the case of someone changing their mind. Sure, but at the same time it does make sense, and they state to make sure you order the correct item.


I specifically asked them that if the item was defective would they accept a return and they said that "all sales are final through the site". That is when they recommended a local dealer. Or a "domestic" dealer. As Hillbilly SQ mentioned they likely aren't trying to deal with the shipping. The products are already super cheap. They may be willing to work with people though. I'm just telling you what they told me. If I buy one I'm def. going through a dealer to be safe.


----------



## Velozity

I'm not a miniDSP nuthugger, but I will say that they've gone above and beyond in taking care of an issue with my HA-DSP headphone amp. I bought it on eBay as a used item. I contacted minidsp to ask them to allow me access to the plug-in. They obliged and only asked for the serial number for their records (knowing I purchased it second-hand). The serial number revealed that my unit was a review sample they had sent out for early feedback. It was not supposed to be resold. I recently had an issue with it that required repair. MiniDSP asked me to send it in and said they would take a look at it. I just got a shipping confirmation that they've shipped me a brand new unit. Can't beat that customer service IMO.


----------



## brainbot1

I got the new 8x12 installed a couple of weeks ago as a direct replacement for my old 6x8. 

I have to say, it was a great upgrade. Most notably, the hotter pre-outs to my amps allowed me to turn my gains down and considerably lower my noise floor. The extra channels of PEQ are nice as well but I can't tell a difference personally since my Dirac 22D takes care of the FIR and IIR. It does open up the possibility of adding rear fill to my set up in the future.


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## naiku

Just wait til you get the rear fill....


----------



## Weightless

Has anyone experimented with running pairs for rearfill instead of single drivers per channel? To help diffuse or scatter the rearfill? I posted the question awhile back but got no bites...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hillbilly SQ

The replacement unit mutes like it's supposed to. I told them it would be early this week before I could test it but they still hounded me the second they got into the office Monday morning their time (I think they sent it off Sunday night our time anyway). I sent a very passive aggressive reply to them saying that I had slept all day after being on a very long trip all weekend and that I would go out to my dark vehicle to plug it in and test it. Then ship defective unit tomorrow while they're sleeping halfway across the world. It's not that I was procrastinating. I just flat didn't have the time while in a clear frame of mind. I did get educated on Chinese customs over the weekend by someone who has spend a lot of time there visiting his build houses and making deals. Really opened my eyes up on just how different we are here in the states and especially here in the south.


----------



## Velozity

Weightless said:


> Has anyone experimented with running pairs for rearfill instead of single drivers per channel? To help diffuse or scatter the rearfill? I posted the question awhile back but got no bites...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I'm experimenting with a four speaker rear fill. Ebony midbass in the rear doors and Trinity midrange in the D-pillars. I really like the effect so far. Still have a lot of tweaking to dial in the delays and crossover settings.


----------



## naiku

Hillbilly SQ said:


> The replacement unit mutes like it's supposed to.


Finally! At least now you can hopefully put the whole annoying experience behind you and move on with actually using the 8x12. 



Velozity said:


> I'm experimenting with a four speaker rear fill. Ebony midbass in the rear doors and Trinity midrange in the D-pillars. I really like the effect so far. Still have a lot of tweaking to dial in the delays and crossover settings.


What sort of effect does it give you? Both width and depth? I am assuming you have a 4 channel amp dedicated to those rear speakers. Would love to experiment with something like that, but no spare amp channels and don't want to go back to a 3 amp set up.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

SUCCESS!!! There's just a faint weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee but it doesn't sound like it's changing with engine rpm and actually seems to almost silence when I rev the engine. With music playing and vehicle moving I'll never know it's there. With engine off there's just the typical line hiss. It's a little more than the 6x8 had but I can handle that. All my amp gains are bottomed out except the sub and it's barely cracked for a little headroom. Now I need to manually enter the eq settings from the 6x8 AGAIN. Just have crossovers set right now because I didn't want to waste my time doing the whole tune transfer again without knowing for sure this thing was gonna work like it should.


----------



## Theslaking

We'll I just got tracking info sent over to me. The unit is on it's way back. Hopefully no more pop.


----------



## Theslaking

We'll the pop is now the worst I ever heard. I won't be surprised if it actually blew on of my speakers this time. I didn't check yet. I put it in turned it on and about jumped out through my roof. Unbelievable. Another problem has arisen. The unit won't shut off. I removed the remote wires from the harness and it stays on now sending noise though the speakers. Obviously once I removed the amps turn on the noise went away but the DSP stayed on. 

I kinda a figured it was still going to be the same because of the last email they sent me. Definitely not worse. They said we updated the firmware, we tend to think the noise is coming from your amps because they likely have a different turn on delay than most amps. I replied that it happens when I stop signal going in (switch sources, disconnect Bluetooth, etc) the amps don't even shut off in those situations. I didn't get a response to that. I have amps hooked up with two different power sources and every other DSP I hooked up, including the 6x8 with the same harness work perfectly. I individually tested each output and they all have the same issue. 

I told them this before and they gave an RMA but apparently they weren't really listening. It seems pretty clear to me that there is a physical issue with this unit. Firmware can't fix that.


----------



## beerdrnkr

I installed speakers for rear fill specifically looking to upgrade from the 6x8 to this unit but there's been too many issues with this unit for my liking. I'll stick with the 6x8 for now which has been solid with zero noise. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Hillbilly SQ

Guess I made the right call to hang on to my 6x8. Maybe they had a bad batch of 8x12's? Either way, I guess I'll run mine until it craps out. Resale on the 8x12 is probably officially in the crapper on this forum. Guess the safe bets right now in this community for processors is the twk and Helix depending on budget.


----------



## Theslaking

It's not really fair to totally crap on the 8x12 because 3 of us had issues. Two of them were resolved and they tried to resolve mine. They just aren't listening to us clearly. Minidsp seems to be defaulting to user error and not completely accepting the fact their units may be defective. If they fix this right away I will still buy their stuff. I'm sure they have sold a thousand of these and if we are the only 3 or 4 that spoke simply because we had problems then that's not to bad for a first run of any product.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

They sure were quick to send a replacement out to me after getting the flash log to see what was going on. I do agree that they're trying to help. My problem had them scratching their head.


----------



## naiku

The thing is for a fairly small player in the car audio world, especially when compared to JL for example, it only takes 3 or 4 failures to put most people off. Heck, I only read a handful of failures on the BitOne and people to this day will not buy one or give any Audison DSP much of a look (for the record, never had a problem with my BitOne) because of those failed units.

I have seen posts both here and on the mini dsp forum of people not buying an 8x12 because of reported issues. Hopefully it's just a small number and the customer service takes care of people without trying to blame everything in user error.


----------



## brainbot1

I've had zero issues with mine, I just wish they would add FIR filters to each input and output channel already.


----------



## naiku

Anyone else had any issues with the DSP not shutting off? Woke up yesterday to a flat battery, charged it and then noticed the DSP not switching off, which means amps stayed on. I have had it do this once in the past where I had to disconnect it, then it acted fine. I have seen it also stay on for up to 30 seconds after the key was removed from the ignition.

I took a multimeter and read no value on the remote in wire so am not sure why it remains powered. To be honest I am hoping it is an issue with the remote wire and not the DSP, but it's never given me any trouble with previous equipment. Planning to do some troubleshooting later, checking that the remote wire does what it should etc. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same thing. Worst case scenario I will put a kill switch somewhere, but would prefer to avoid that.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Have you tried cycling the turn-on switch between 1 and 2 to see if the switch is somehow bleeding over to first position while sitting in the second position where we all have ours? In other words the switch might be acting funky. My first one acted strange when it came to getting it to turn on for the first time after getting power hooked up to it the first couple times, but then acted fine. Second one hasn't really done anything strange. Even though I was told several times that the 8x12 has been around a while and hasn't really had any problems I still feel like we're beta testers for this thing.


----------



## naiku

Messing with the switch will be something I try later. Honestly, in agreement with you about being beta testers. While I am not entirely against that, getting support for issues is not the quickest process.


----------



## Theslaking

I agree. If we are beta testers support should be near immediate! They have said that it's my wires making the pop. Although 3 other DSP's work without pop and when it got back from "repair" the pop was probably 3 times louder and the worst I ever heard. So even though I touched nothing on my car, it actually never moved, the increase in noise and pop after they looked at was my car. I guess it's possible. Either way I'm changing the wires and will hope that works.


----------



## naiku

Well, my remote wire is functioning as it should be. Ignition on, 12v (well, just a little under) take the key out and that drops to 0v. Yet, the damn DSP is staying on as well as everything else stays on. Toggled the switch on the side back and forth a couple times, made no change. 

I guess my next step is to start contacting miniDSP support. Yay.


----------



## dcfis

Is that signal sensing jumper on? Might be some small rca voltage keeping it on somehow


----------



## naiku

dcfis said:


> Is that signal sensing jumper on? Might be some small rca voltage keeping it on somehow


Exactly what I am about to check, getting ready to pull it out in a minute to take a look. Actually, there is no signal sensing jumper on the 8x12, at least not that I am aware of. 

I flipped all the micro switches on the low level inputs, just because. Made no difference. Weirdly though it went off after I went around and closed all the doors on the car. 

Honestly, about ready to push this car off a cliff lately.


----------



## sanjaydrolia1

naiku said:


> Anyone else had any issues with the DSP not shutting off? Woke up yesterday to a flat battery, charged it and then noticed the DSP not switching off, which means amps stayed on. I have had it do this once in the past where I had to disconnect it, then it acted fine. I have seen it also stay on for up to 30 seconds after the key was removed from the ignition.
> 
> I took a multimeter and read no value on the remote in wire so am not sure why it remains powered. To be honest I am hoping it is an issue with the remote wire and not the DSP, but it's never given me any trouble with previous equipment. Planning to do some troubleshooting later, checking that the remote wire does what it should etc. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same thing. Worst case scenario I will put a kill switch somewhere, but would prefer to avoid that.


Although the sound output is much better than most of the rivals. But that performance lacks sustainability.

I faced almost similar issue with the C-DSP. I face hissing noise, which is increasing gradually. This noise increases after a pro-longed drive of beyond 300 Kms. It always becomes unbearable in the night, when the lights are also on, along with the Hi-fi & the A.C. I tried Noise isolators, but surprisingly, the noise aggravates in this case.

The battery drainage behaviour is absolutely surprising. It doesn't drain in the daily city drive of say, 30-40 kms.

It drains only after a long drive of more than 300 kms. The car doesn't stop anywhere while driving. But the next morning, the battery drains so drastically, that even the remote keys also don't work. I have to open the car thru manual keys, each time, & get an alternate battery to start the car.

I have finished every single possibilities of trouble-shooting. It doesn't work. I also got a replacement piece from MiniDSP, but that also behaved in absolutely same way. 

Recently, The problem eliminated only after changing the DSP to another brand. Now the car is absolutely fine.

I feel there is a serious problem in the hardware, which will never settle with any software update. The reason why I feel this, is the DSP noise keeps on aggravating. It's not able to withstand a constant performance of say over 4-5 hours. It starts crying for help after that. And then only it doesn't put-off the power of amps even after the car is locked. The battery drains only after a long drive. 

MiniDSP should seriously look into quality of the products, else the product will collapse, for sure.


----------



## Weightless

naiku said:


> Well, my remote wire is functioning as it should be. Ignition on, 12v (well, just a little under) take the key out and that drops to 0v. Yet, the damn DSP is staying on as well as everything else stays on. Toggled the switch on the side back and forth a couple times, made no change.
> 
> I guess my next step is to start contacting miniDSP support. Yay.


Where are you taking the measurement from? The 12v+ and the ground on the 4pole phoenix block on the DSP? 

What is connected? 12v+(battery), Ground(body), Remote in(accessory?, remote out(other devices)? 

If I understand you correctly, you get 12v when the ignition is in the accessory position, but it drops to 0 when off? 

Where are you getting your 12v from?

Depending on that answer, you should be getting 12v+ at pole 1 even with the key out. (Actually, re-reading your post, it sounds like you are getting your 12v supply from accessory instead of constant 12v or is that where yoy are getting your 12v remote in from?)

In the software, how much delay is associated with the remote turn on?

What happens if you keep the key out and only disconnect the 12v in, pole 1?

What happens if you put the key in accessory and only disconnect the remote wire in, pole 3?

What happens if only disconnect the remote out wire, pole 4?

It almost sounds sounds like the remote mode switch is failing. Personally I think it is a silly idea for the option of always on. If there is a scenario where you want the DSP always on, just put a jumper from the 12v in to the remote in. No need for adding a potential fail point in their design.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## Weightless

sanjaydrolia1 said:


> Although the sound output is much better than most of the rivals. But that performance lacks sustainability.
> 
> I faced almost similar issue with the C-DSP. I face hissing noise, which is increasing gradually. This noise increases after a pro-longed drive of beyond 300 Kms. It always becomes unbearable in the night, when the lights are also on, along with the Hi-fi & the A.C. I tried Noise isolators, but surprisingly, the noise aggravates in this case.
> 
> The battery drainage behaviour is absolutely surprising. It doesn't drain in the daily city drive of say, 30-40 kms.
> 
> It drains only after a long drive of more than 300 kms. The car doesn't stop anywhere while driving. But the next morning, the battery drains so drastically, that even the remote keys also don't work. I have to open the car thru manual keys, each time, & get an alternate battery to start the car.
> 
> I have finished every single possibilities of trouble-shooting. It doesn't work. I also got a replacement piece from MiniDSP, but that also behaved in absolutely same way.
> 
> Recently, The problem eliminated only after changing the DSP to another brand. Now the car is absolutely fine.
> 
> I feel there is a serious problem in the hardware, which will never settle with any software update. The reason why I feel this, is the DSP noise keeps on aggravating. It's not able to withstand a constant performance of say over 4-5 hours. It starts crying for help after that. And then only it doesn't put-off the power of amps even after the car is locked. The battery drains only after a long drive.
> 
> MiniDSP should seriously look into quality of the products, else the product will collapse, for sure.


The hissing noise increases over time and it is worse at night, when the lights are on?

What car is this in?

Which noise isolators have you tried? They are not all created equally. And it made the nouse worse?

Are you in the USA? If you are using another DSP in your build and if the MiniDSP is just collecting dust, would you be willing to mail it to me for bench testing, maybe for a week max? I will pay for 1 way shipping if interested. I will ship it back once finished.

I have a 8x12 that I haven't hooked up yet, but would like to compare it to yours. 

These behaviors are odd to say the least. 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## naiku

Weightless said:


> Where are you taking the measurement from? The 12v+ and the ground on the 4pole phoenix block on the DSP?


Yes, measuring there.



Weightless said:


> What is connected? 12v+(battery), Ground(body), Remote in(accessory?, remote out(other devices)?


Yup, battery, ground, remote in and 2 x remote out.



Weightless said:


> If I understand you correctly, you get 12v when the ignition is in the accessory position, but it drops to 0 when off?


12v constantly on pole 1. On the remote in pole, 12v ignition on, 0v ignition off.



Weightless said:


> Where are you getting your 12v from?


Constant 12v from a distribution block (direct from battery) and remote in from aftermarket stereo harness.



Weightless said:


> Depending on that answer, you should be getting 12v+ at pole 1 even with the key out. (Actually, re-reading your post, it sounds like you are getting your 12v supply from accessory instead of constant 12v or is that where yoy are getting your 12v remote in from?)


Correct, 12v at pole 1 regardless of key in or out. Remote in from accessory/switched 12v behind head unit via harness.



Weightless said:


> In the software, how much delay is associated with the remote turn on?


Never changed it, will be whatever the default is.



Weightless said:


> What happens if you keep the key out and only disconnect the 12v in, pole 1?
> 
> What happens if you put the key in accessory and only disconnect the remote wire in, pole 3?
> 
> What happens if only disconnect the remote out wire, pole 4?


I can try this, but fairly certain that key out remove 12v pole 1 it will shut off. Key in accessory and remove remote in I would hope it shuts off. Disconnect remote out I would hope amps shut off. I can try and report back sometime later.



Weightless said:


> It almost sounds sounds like the remote mode switch is failing. Personally I think it is a silly idea for the option of always on. If there is a scenario where you want the DSP always on, just put a jumper from the 12v in to the remote in. No need for adding a potential fail point in their design.


Agree 100% with this. The only thing I can think of is the switch as everything else is working as expected. The switch does seem pointless, especially when you consider it has 3 positions but currently the 3rd position does nothing and should not be used (wonder if it even does do anything) I have no idea why anyone would want to keep the dsp powered constantly.


----------



## Weightless

Yeah, that's what it sounds like. It is shorted in position 1 which is always on. I bet you if you just disconnect remote in, pole 3, the DSP and the amps will shut off.

Just fyi, I believe the default remote delay is 4 sec.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## naiku

Will definitely give that a try, would rather leave the remote in disconnected than have to put a kill switch somewhere.


----------



## Weightless

you're still going to need someway to shut the dsp off of you permanently disconnect the rem in. 

I would still contact minidsp. I would take a vid of a multi- meter showing 12v on the remote out when powered, then remove the rem in, and show that there is still 12v on the rem out. I would keep it there for 15 sec or so. 

Also, I don't know why this would matter, but adjust the delay in the software from the default setting and see if it made a difference. Also, save your config, factory reset it, then reload your config and see if it did anything. 



Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I installed my new Zapco ST-5x yesterday and it came on as soon as I hooked put the fuse in the block. Turns out I bumped the switch on the dsp to position 1 by accident. Don't even remember getting near that switch when I was moving stuff around on the rack to fit the bigger amp. If you want to know what I think I think some of the 8x12's are haunted!


----------



## Weightless

Did you check the "not haunted" box when downloading the plugin? If not, I think I know why you're having issues. 

There really should be a warning on their page about this. 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I saw it in the dropdown menu but thought it was a joke:laugh:


----------



## naiku

That explains it, I never even noticed that plug in option! Haha

Merry Christmas guys


----------



## naiku

Did a factory reset on the DSP and set the DSP off time to half a second. Took the key out of the ignition and it shut right off.

Key back in the ignition, reloaded configurations and took the key out. Stupid ****ing thing stayed on again. Sure I can install a kill switch somewhere, but I should not have to. Of all the DSP I have owned, none have given me a single problem. About ready to sell everything and say **** it. Having enough electrical gremlins with this car as it is, the last thing I want is to be screwing around with this.


----------



## naiku

Just to confuse things, had some errands to run today. Was concerned the DSP would not shut off, but sure enough every time I turned the key off, it shut off. 

Since trying things out the other day, I have done nothing to it.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Take a DEEP breath Ian! It's not as bad as it seems. If push comes to shove there's other dsp's out there. For that reason I'm keeping my old 2x4 close by to process rears. And my 6x8 isn't going anywhere either.


----------



## Weightless

naiku said:


> Did a factory reset on the DSP and set the DSP off time to half a second. Took the key out of the ignition and it shut right off.
> 
> Key back in the ignition, reloaded configurations and took the key out. Stupid ****ing thing stayed on again. Sure I can install a kill switch somewhere, but I should not have to. Of all the DSP I have owned, none have given me a single problem. About ready to sell everything and say **** it. Having enough electrical gremlins with this car as it is, the last thing I want is to be screwing around with this.


I know this may sound silly and it may be tedious depending on how many adjustments you have made in the config, but what about factory resetting it again, but manually transferring your settings from your current config? Starting from a fresh reset and not reloading your old config?



Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## beerdrnkr

Has there been any additional fixes for this unit or has anyone else been trouble free with it? I'm really wanting to pull the trigger but I'm not sure if I should go with one of the other processors available instead.


----------



## Theslaking

Minidsp is waiting on me now. I ripped my car apart last month to rewire it then holidays and every other vehicle I own broke so I haven't had time to continue. The offered to walk me through some type of program rewrite. They believe I'm having a balanced signal issue. So the time that has passed since my last update has been mostly on me.


----------



## naiku

The only reoccurring issue I know of, that can be managed, is the noise. My unit not powering off appears to be a one off issue that is hard to pin point the cause. It's not done it since I manually set it up again, so could have been something weird in the software.

I also have a thread on the miniDSP forum and they are working on a fix to eliminate the noise. I believe at least 3 people are currently testing the fix.

If you want more than 8 channels without spending a fortune, I would not hesitate to get one.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

What noise are they working on a fix for? Ground or hiss? So far mine has been behaving.


----------



## naiku

The overall hiss that is present, from what I understand they are having people try a short jumper wire of some sort, but at the moment I don't know exactly what, or how difficult it will be to test.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I don't have any problems with hiss so guess I'm lucky.


----------



## brainbot1

I haven't had any issues, just bliss from day one.


----------



## beerdrnkr

Well it looks like I'll be pulling the trigger soon. Thanks for the input. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## beerdrnkr

Just ordered one. I'll update once I install if there's any issues. So far I still have 0 issues with the mini 6x8 after about 2 years of use. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## GreatLaBroski

beerdrnkr said:


> Just ordered one. I'll update once I install if there's any issues. So far I still have 0 issues with the mini 6x8 after about 2 years of use.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Curious to hear your experience, I've been planning on buying one but this thread spooked me a little bit.


----------



## Theslaking

Well my issue with the turn on pop seems to be my Sound Monitor hu. I tested it be for but I may not have completely removed the hu from electronic contact with the DSP. I rewired the car adding a USB cable for the DSP and a 6 channel RCA. The SM hu does not have a digital output that I know how to switch to (everything is in Japanese). You can switch an input. Anyway after the rewire I fire it up and damn it, still have the pop. Start troubleshooting again. I connect my APT-X Bluetooth adapter directly via coaxial and a beautiful nod to silence as it turns on! So I do a couple other tests and only with hu connected does it make the noise. So some how while the DSP was off getting tested, with the car sitting in the garage the turn on pop got worse. Like I said I did test the HU before sending it to Minidsp but obviously I missed something. So it now works as it should and I am pleased. Minidsp did everything they could.

This brings me to the second reason for a post. I am now using the coaxial input on the DSP and everything is completely different. It's the same Bluetooth adapter, same device feeding signal to the adapter. I can not turn the gains down enough on my amps. I know, seems like a good problem but I had to cut the output level to -16db and the input to -8db. Secondly I think the digital sounds, well to clear and dry? I guess that's a was to describe it. I really liked the way it sounded from the HU. I didn't think it would sound this different considering the HU signal is converted to digital for processing either way so the dac in the DSP is the last step regardless. Anyone else notice a huge difference in the sound between analog and digital inputs on this DSP? My son got in and said "Dad what's up with the radio? It sounds like a brick wall" I asked him what that meant and he said it's like sitting in the way back of a concert and it sounds like it's bouncing off a wall. I don't quite agree with that choice of words but he's only 11. It is that drastic. So clear it's lifeless. If I plug the RCA in to the analog input of the DSP it sounds closer to before. 

I'm going to hook up different hu and check back in. Maybe the sonic signature of the SM hu is just magic to my hears. Maybe someone else has experienced this difference.


----------



## Theslaking

GO# DAMN IT! 

It's not the HU either. I directly connected it to the DSP in the trunk and no turn on pop. WTF. I knew I tested the HU before. So all new cables in the car. Both sets cause noise. I don't think so. What is it? The only thing I can think of is the radio antenna has some type of bleed through because it's powered (has a band expanders). I'll switch it later. Right now I have a dinner date with Indian taco's.

Any ideas feel free to leave them.


----------



## beerdrnkr

I haven't gone through all your posts but you've tried a different amp correct? Different processor too? 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Theslaking

Yes to all. 
Hooked directly. Same amps, same adapter, same cables, no noise

Put it back in the dash = noise


----------



## beerdrnkr

Are you using the factory ground on the harness of your vehicle or did you ground the stereo to a better location? 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Theslaking

Yep. But I'm going to try another ground point just in case.


----------



## Theslaking

Well it was the band expander. At least these older Nissan's have to have the antenna plugged in to work. I always assumed it was a secondary ground. Even with an alternate grounding point for the HU the antenna still has to be hooked up. I figure the reason it got worse after I got the DSP back from Minidsp was because I switched to a higher powered band expander. Unhooked the band expander out the HU in the factory location and no pop. 

Summary: All issues were on my end. One software (actual cause unknown), one hardware. Minidsp was extremely helpful and even willing to rewrite some software for the DSP specifically for my issue. That kind of problem solving is rare at best.


----------



## Truthunter

Theslaking said:


> Well it was the band expander. At least these older Nissan's have to have the antenna plugged in to work. I always assumed it was a secondary ground. Even with an alternate grounding point for the HU the antenna still has to be hooked up. I figure the reason it got worse after I got the DSP back from Minidsp was because I switched to a higher powered band expander. Unhooked the band expander out the HU in the factory location and no pop.
> 
> Summary: All issues were on my end. One software (actual cause unknown), one hardware. Minidsp was extremely helpful and even willing to rewrite some software for the DSP specifically for my issue. That kind of problem solving is rare at best.


Glad you got it figured out and it was not the fault of the 8x12.

Getting ready to install mine soon.


----------



## naiku

Truthunter said:


> Getting ready to install mine soon.


Do you think you will have it installed by the NC meet?


----------



## Truthunter

naiku said:


> Do you think you will have it installed by the NC meet?


Installed... Yes. Tuned is a different story :blush:


----------



## naiku

Installed is a good start, that then gives you another month until the VA meet here to get it tuned!! haha :laugh:


----------



## naiku

Well, mine has returned to it's refusing to power off state. Had been fine for the last few months, I was actually thinking the problem could have been related to the mouse problem I had.

But, nope. Just noticed today it's remaining powered again. So frustrating.

The only thing I have done differently from normal driving recently is had the battery on a charger yesterday. I went to start the car, while not completely dead, the battery was flat enough not to start the car. Today when reconnecting the battery, the DSP is on. Checked voltages and everything is normal.

Ignition on, 12v on remote in, ignition off, 0v. 

It's maddening.


----------



## bnae38

naiku said:


> Well, mine has returned to it's refusing to power off state. Had been fine for the last few months, I was actually thinking the problem could have been related to the mouse problem I had.
> 
> But, nope. Just noticed today it's remaining powered again. So frustrating.
> 
> The only thing I have done differently from normal driving recently is had the battery on a charger yesterday. I went to start the car, while not completely dead, the battery was flat enough not to start the car. Today when reconnecting the battery, the DSP is on. Checked voltages and everything is normal.
> 
> Ignition on, 12v on remote in, ignition off, 0v.
> 
> It's maddening.



Hmm, any luck over on the minidsp forums? Wonder if looking at a firmware bug yet?


----------



## naiku

Nothing yet, going to open a support ticket there soon. Decided to take a video...

https://youtu.be/j1q2can9wF4


----------



## bnae38

naiku said:


> Nothing yet, going to open a support ticket there soon. Decided to take a video...
> 
> https://youtu.be/j1q2can9wF4



Cool, they're fairly on top of their stuff over on that forum. Hopefully if more have similar issues they'll nail it down..


----------



## Theslaking

That's what happened to me. I don't remember what solved it. I initially used the 6x8 remote and that caused problems with the 8x12. Then it would not turn off. I think a firmware update fixed it. Did you check your toggle switch? One of them is always on. 

Check my posts in this thread or on the mini forum. I'm sure I talked about it.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Mine is still working properly from what I can tell. My 6x8 isn't going anywhere though. It was rock solid from day one. With more efficient tweeters the hiss is louder. Only obvious when vehicle is shut off.


----------



## Theslaking

I think if they would get rid of that stupid input selector switch 3 of the 4 people I know of would not have had any issues. I will bet that's Ian's issue. Wether it be the firmware, the remote communication, or the actual switch there have been issues. Not all Mini's fault but why add potential problem area in a field (car) it's a useless feature.

And yeah the 6x8 has been perfect for me as well.


----------



## naiku

100% agree with you on the switch, it is usually the first thing I check and has been the fault once. The switch on mine is fairly loose as well, but yep, it is useless. I cannot think of any situation where you would want it powered constantly, and the 3rd position on the switch is useless.

I think I have not updated to the latest firmware yet, going to check the switch later, update the firmware and see what happens. Of course, it does not happen that often and is so far not repeatable so it may well be working fine again today.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Any of you guys having connection issues? Both of my minidsp's have had issues connecting to the laptop to tune. Usually takes a few tries. Once connected it's there for the duration of the session but still a little annoying. Good thing I'm not a habitual tuner. I get it where it needs to be and don't touch it for months. My mini 2x4's all connected first try and my Fix82 always connected first try.


----------



## Theslaking

I don't have any connection issues. I'd say first try every time.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Maybe the connection hesitation is on my end, but on the 6x8 it happened with my previous laptop too. Running Windows 10.


----------



## ryanr7386

Not convenience all the "Bugs" have been worked out yet with this unit? Hesitant to pull the trigger! Should I be?


----------



## naiku

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Any of you guys having connection issues? Both of my minidsp's have had issues connecting to the laptop to tune. Usually takes a few tries. Once connected it's there for the duration of the session but still a little annoying. Good thing I'm not a habitual tuner. I get it where it needs to be and don't touch it for months. My mini 2x4's all connected first try and my Fix82 always connected first try.


Now and again mine will not connect 1st try, but always does on the second try. 



ryanr7386 said:


> Not convenience all the "Bugs" have been worked out yet with this unit? Hesitant to pull the trigger! Should I be?


Your signature says you have a Helix DSP Pro, I am not sure I would swap the Helix out for the Mini DSP. I used to have a Helix DSP, great unit, but I wanted to try rear fill and the Pro was more than I wanted to spend. If I already had the Pro, I would still have the Pro.


----------



## Theslaking

ryanr7386 said:


> Not convenience all the "Bugs" have been worked out yet with this unit? Hesitant to pull the trigger! Should I be?


No get it. My opinion. I'm still satisfied. For the price it's worth it. Now Madisound and Parts Express sell them so if there was an issue exchange will be easy.


----------



## ryanr7386

naiku said:


> Now and again mine will not connect 1st try, but always does on the second try.
> 
> 
> 
> Your signature says you have a Helix DSP Pro, I am not sure I would swap the Helix out for the Mini DSP. I used to have a Helix DSP, great unit, but I wanted to try rear fill and the Pro was more than I wanted to spend. If I already had the Pro, I would still have the Pro.


Yes I do have the Pro but ultimately needing 12 channels is the only reason I'm curious about this unit. Thanks


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

ryanr7386 said:


> Yes I do have the Pro but ultimately needing 12 channels is the only reason I'm curious about this unit. Thanks


If you're interested in working out a trade send me a pm. Your Pro is worth more than this 8x12 but cash on my part doesn't scare me as long as it's reasonable. My 8x12 seems to be bug free. I have a sneaky feeling my laptop is just wierd on the initial connection from time to time.


----------



## SPLEclipse

Are you using a USB extension? My 2x4s would sometimes take a couple tries to connect when I used an extension cable.


----------



## ryanr7386

Hillbilly SQ said:


> ryanr7386 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I do have the Pro but ultimately needing 12 channels is the only reason I'm curious about this unit. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> If you're interested in working out a trade send me a pm. Your Pro is worth more than this 8x12 but cash on my part doesn't scare me as long as it's reasonable. My 8x12 seems to be bug free. I have a sneaky feeling my laptop is just wierd on the initial connection from time to time.
Click to expand...

I'll keep it in mind but right now I'm going to hang tight.


----------



## 3MPS23

naiku said:


> Nothing yet, going to open a support ticket there soon. Decided to take a video...
> 
> https://youtu.be/j1q2can9wF4


I had a similar problem with mine. Would not turn off even though the remote in was 0v. Also had noise issues, as there was bleed between channels (e.g. Midrange receiving sub frequencies despite crossovers in place). Turned out to be an issue with the input rca (still no idea what the incompatibility was since the original source seemed to work fine with other dsps). 

With them disconnected the unit would operate fine. Tried a different rca source (rca adapter from pc headphone jack) and it turned off when intended. Now using optical input and it's fine.

Might be a long shot, but you could try removing the inputs and see if it helps.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

SPLEclipse said:


> Are you using a USB extension? My 2x4s would sometimes take a couple tries to connect when I used an extension cable.


Yes I am using an extension. Guess I got something to try.


----------



## naiku

3MPS23 said:


> Might be a long shot, but you could try removing the inputs and see if it helps.


I run optical only, but might give it a try since it will be something quick and easy to test. I had to run some errands yesterday, first 2 places I stopped at it would not turn off. Both times I had to lift the floor in the trunk and just yank out the power connector. Fully expected to have to do it again at the 3rd stop, and it switched off normally, same when I got home, switched off normally. 



Hillbilly SQ said:


> Yes I am using an extension. Guess I got something to try.


I am not running an extension, but just a long USB cable. Let me know if it improves connecting for you, mine does not do it enough for me to care, but I would be curious to the outcome.


----------



## Theslaking

I use a higher quality Epson printer cable. I actually just ran it permanently through the car since I decided I am satisfied with the 8x12. I did have issues with my 2x4 and other cables. Maybe there is something to that. I know PS4's won't boot into safe mode if your using a cheap phone cord to connect the controller. So obviously something can be totally different about two cords that can do the same thing.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

My cable is a long Parts Express cable connected to the short one that came with the dsp. I honestly didn't think there was much difference in them with the exception of the connectors.


----------



## Theslaking

Yeah I've had phones that won't transfer info, controllers that lag, printers that can't do certain things, etc all from the wrong cord that seems exactly the same. I don't know why, just know it's true.


----------



## naiku

Theslaking said:


> Yeah I've had phones that won't transfer info, controllers that lag, printers that can't do certain things, etc all from the wrong cord that seems exactly the same. I don't know why, just know it's true.


This is especially true with USB cables. Some cheap ones won't even charge a phone for example, much less transfer data.


----------



## Truthunter

Ok, my system V2.0 is almost ready and it includes the 8x12. So I've been reading all I can and messing with the UI to familiarize myself with it as much as possible.

One thing I'm need help wrapping my mind around is setting up optimum gain structure.

I have an oscope but feel using the sound level meters, displayed for the inputs and outputs, can get me close. Do you guys use the sound level meters on the inputs and outputs to assist in setting the dsp's gains?

Just for reference: Headunit is an Alpine X008U using analog pre-amp out (4V), Amps are Arc Audio 4150xxk. Prior set up was headunit directly into amps and gains were set by ear maybe 10-20% (just short of all the way counterclockwise) and had plenty of clean output.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Truthunter said:


> Ok, my system V2.0 is almost ready and it includes the 8x12. So I've been reading all I can and messing with the UI to familiarize myself with it as much as possible.
> 
> One thing I'm need help wrapping my mind around is setting up optimum gain structure.
> 
> I have an oscope but feel using the sound level meters, displayed for the inputs and outputs, can get me close. Do you guys use the sound level meters on the inputs and outputs to assist in setting the dsp's gains?
> 
> Just for reference: Headunit is an Alpine X008U using analog pre-amp out (4V), Amps are Arc Audio 4150xxk. Prior set up was headunit directly into amps and gains were set by ear maybe 10-20% (just short of all the way counterclockwise) and had plenty of clean output.


If the amp gains have a sensitivity of 6v or less at minimum I'd leave them bottomed. You can use a hot recording to let the input meters just barely tickle the red but I would personally try to keep it on the edge of the green. Then you can adjust the output gains to where they do the same thing. All of my input and output gains are set at zero or below. In my experience taking the input gains above zero into the plus causes the sound to get jagged, but ymmv. How you do it is up to you but you don't have to make it more complicated than it has to be either


----------



## Truthunter

Hillbilly SQ said:


> but you don't have to make it more complicated than it has to be either


This is my goal


----------



## naiku

A few weeks of no problems, then at the NC meet yesterday mine is back to its old tricks of not shutting off. Gave about 5 demos, get on on the 6th and notice the DSP is on. The rest of the day it stayed on, when I got to my hotel it shut off, but then heading back to the hotel after dinner it stayed on again.

Same thing when I got home today, so yanked it from the car. Opened it up to see if there is anything obvious, the only thing I see is the board beneath the (stupid) switch is a mess compared to every other connection. Took a couple pictures, but it's hard to tell:

Full shot:









Zoomed in on switch area:

















I don't know if that is anything to worry about, but I am getting increasingly fed up with this. Unless I notice the blue light on the remote staying illuminated, I end up with a flat battery.


----------



## bnae38

So is there an "always on" option with that swtich? Jw


----------



## Theslaking

Yes there is. And at a minimum that looks like it overheated. I will open mine in a few minutes and compare.


----------



## naiku

bnae38 said:


> So is there an "always on" option with that swtich? Jw


Yep, position 1 on that switch is always on. I have no idea the point of such a switch, it just seems to be asking for trouble.



Theslaking said:


> And at a minimum that looks like it overheated. I will open mine in a few minutes and compare.


Thanks, curious to hear what yours looks like. If mine did over heat, I have no idea what would have caused it to do so. I am pretty confident it will not have been anything I did.


----------



## bnae38

Thinking borderline contact inside it or problem in that area most likely.

Do you have a dmm?

If you can manage to get probes on the contacts and jiggle the switch, maybe you can see if it's intermittent?


----------



## bnae38

Could be as simple as just cleaning it, although if it was me.. and i verified the switch was the problem then i would just solder it shut the correct way though 


Gotta pin down problem first though.


----------



## naiku

bnae38 said:


> Thinking borderline contact inside it or problem in that area most likely.
> 
> Do you have a dmm?
> 
> If you can manage to get probes on the contacts and jiggle the switch, maybe you can see if it's intermittent?


Yup, I have a DMM. Would the best way to check it to check for continuity? Put the contacts on the pins and see what happens. I can't realistically get a DMM on there with it in the car. 



bnae38 said:


> Could be as simple as just cleaning it, although if it was me.. and i verified the switch was the problem then i would just solder it shut the correct way though


At the meet yesterday, I told more than one person if I can just bypass the stupid switch I would.


----------



## bnae38

http://spec_sheets.e-switch.com/specs/P040240.pdf

Not necessarily the exact switch, but likely same pinout/switching config.

Fyi


----------



## bnae38

naiku said:


> Yup, I have a DMM. Would the best way to check it to check for continuity? Put the contacts on the pins and see what happens. I can't realistically get a DMM on there with it in the car.
> 
> 
> 
> At the meet yesterday, I told more than one person if I can just bypass the stupid switch I would.


Yeah, you'll have to take it apart again. If you can dig the dmm probes into the joints (somewhat gently) and hold them there with one hand; then you can jiggle the switch and see if it opens. Set dmm to Ohms and look for it to stay under 1 ohm on pins 1-2 and 5-6.


I'd confirm that's the problem first instead of just soldering those connections shut right away fwiw


----------



## Theslaking

Sorry Ian, yours doesn't look as nice as mine.


----------



## bnae38

Think it's just flux on his pcb, can clean that off with isopropyl to get a better idea how things really look.


----------



## Theslaking

Even so, the fact it looks so sloppy indicates a "not so clean" assembly.


----------



## bnae38

True enough, good chance it wicked up into part and is on contacts.

Hate switches...


----------



## naiku

bnae38 said:


> Yeah, you'll have to take it apart again. If you can dig the dmm probes into the joints (somewhat gently) and hold them there with one hand; then you can jiggle the switch and see if it opens. Set dmm to Ohms and look for it to stay under 1 ohm on pins 1-2 and 5-6.
> 
> 
> I'd confirm that's the problem first instead of just soldering those connections shut right away fwiw


Opened it back up, unfortunately I could not get the probes to stay in one place while I jiggled the switch. The best I could do was hold them and take some readings.

Position 1 - On both pins 1-2 and 5-6 I got a fluctuating reading but stayed below 1 ohm.

Position 2 - Only got the reading on pins 5-6. Similar reading though as with Pos 1. 

The difficulty is getting the multimeter to read consistently as the pins are so small on the back of the switch. Going to wait for MiniDSP to get back to me on my ticket before doing much else. 



Theslaking said:


> Sorry Ian, yours doesn't look as nice as mine.


Thanks for opening it up and taking a look. I have not heard of anyone else having this issue, so could just be a one off on mine for whatever reason.



bnae38 said:


> Think it's just flux on his pcb, can clean that off with isopropyl to get a better idea how things really look.


That's what I plan to do next, grab some alcohol and a q-tip to clean it off.


----------



## 89grand

That board definitely has burnt flux on it, which makes no sense just to be in that one area (around the switch leads, and between the SO8 IC and resistor) if nothing is wrong there. I'm sure the PCB was processed with a no-clean flux, so seeing flux is normal. Being that dark in that area is not.


----------



## mitchell0715

looks like typical chinese manufacturing

clean the flux off and if the board looks all bubbly and ****ty still id be concerned


----------



## naiku

OK, so it cleaned up fairly well. 


















Would be nice if cleaning it made the thing shut down properly!! Knowing how this unit can be though, I will plug it back in later, it will work fine for a month and then start acting up again.


----------



## Theslaking

It did. I think you should be the test dummy for eliminating the switch then tell how so I can.


----------



## mitchell0715

looks better than before but it certainly looks like some excess heat has gone through those traces, but its hard to tell in pictures sometimes

have you considered emailing miniDSP? I'd hope one of their circuit designers could help considering its their product


----------



## naiku

Theslaking said:


> It did. I think you should be the test dummy for eliminating the switch then tell how so I can.


If I had any confidence in eliminating that switch without ruining the entire thing in the process I would gladly be the test dummy. 

Instead, I will wait for your instructions :laugh::laugh:



mitchell0715 said:


> looks better than before but it certainly looks like some excess heat has gone through those traces, but its hard to tell in pictures sometimes
> 
> have you considered emailing miniDSP? I'd hope one of their circuit designers could help considering its their product


It's hard to get a decent picture of it as well. I have a thread open on the MiniDSP forum (actually opened it back in January I believe) but today also opened a support ticket with them. Will make sure I post any updates in here.


----------



## Locomotive Tech

If you ask me, it looks like that was a repair. Not saying that Mini sold you a refurb, but it could be that the switch failed at factory testing and it was replaced.

It takes some extra work but you could put it on a relay, whether the switch fails or not, it will shut on and off when You want it to.


----------



## bnae38

Would suggest you run some deoxit into switch and run it back and forth many many times.


Otherwise, removing switch is an option and running a small wire from pin 1-2 and 5-6.



Solder sucker or solder wick would be best way to take it off, although I usually just put a large mass of melted lead solder on all the leads and remove it that way. Can wiggle it out once all solder is melted.


----------



## 89grand

I happen to be a SMT Process Engineer by trade, and what I do for a living. That board was either reworked and over heated, or has an issue that is heating the board in those specific areas during operation. I lean towards the latter because the flux was burnt. It could be the former, but less likely.


The areas in red look like a heat problem. The area in yellow with burnt flux earlier looks ok now, but I wonder why the flux was burnt. It probably isn't supposed to be there, and it's not uncommon for boards to have empty locations, but I wonder why the board was designed for another SOT23 circled in green.

Overall, I have to say, the workmanship is not very impressive, nor is the board design. I'm guessing the resistors are 0603 in size, but the pads are too small for them. It'll make an electrical connection, but they shouldn't be undersized if the designer was experienced. I can't really tell if the board was wave soldered on the secondary side (the side we're looking at), or if it was SMT soldered both sides and the through hole components hand soldered.


----------



## naiku

OK, so MiniDSP got back to me overnight. They have asked for me to confirm I am running the latest firmware (99% sure I was, I had the files on my laptop). But, to be certain I went ahead with the update procedure again. 

They also asked for a screenshot of my REM settings. I explained in my reply that I don't believe the REM setting has any effect on the behavior of it not shutting down, as the first time it did not shut down the REM settings were still at the factory defaults. I only changed the REM settings at a later date, but it also still sometimes refuses to shut down. 

Annoyingly (or not) after going through the firmware update and power cycling it shut off fine. It then shut off fine again after connecting to it and taking the screenshot of the REM settings. 

I picked up a relay this morning, so plan to wire it up to that at some point. I would rather just get it working as it should do though, but at least with the relay I have a fail safe.


----------



## JamesRC

I was thinking about upgrading from my 6x8, but after reading this thread the 8x12 sounds like a disaster. My 6x8 has always worked perfectly.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Agreed, this thing sounds like a disaster. More importantly, this also showcases MiniDSP’s weakness as a company with their inability/unwillingness to be forthcoming and communicate about these issues. They haven’t answered the forum thread about the noise issues for a while despite many new comments.

I’m avoiding it for now, especially since they don’t want to talk about Dirac Live support for the 8x12. It’s a shame, if it worked correctly and had Dirac Live it’d be an absolute showstopper.


----------



## Porgy

In the same boat. Was so hopeful this would be a hit but the best scenario Ive heard is theres issues but sometimes not noticeable.


----------



## Theslaking

The noise is a non issue. If you have enough amp you don't hear any associated with DSP. Only heard at all with no music playing. Mini bent over backwards to help me. The were going to re-write programs for me. Get another DSP company to do that. There is 3 protagonist in this thread. One had no real issues, one's issues seem to be mostly (if not all) self inflicted, and the third is having issues still but only with a useless switch for car audio. Now lets add that all three purchased these in what was likely the first production run. Now they are sold by Parts Express and Madisound which have fantastic track records with customer service and returns. The conclusion is one person is complaining about a real problem now. The other two have no issues and all three say the noise is a non-issue.

I personally will and plan to buy another. These are fantastic for the price. Now if naiku would just teach me how to bypass the switch. :inquisitive:


----------



## naiku

I agree with @theslaking they have been pretty great with support. The noise, while annoying, is easy to deal with such that you don't notice it. My switch problem appears to be a one off (I still don't get why they installed the switch).

For the price and features, I would absolutely buy one again. Especially being able to buy from madisound/parts express. 

The biggest thing I would say MiniDSP need to work on is the software. It's got all the features you need, but compared to the Helix software it's nowhere near as user friendly.

Oh, as to bypassing the switch. Planning to just use a relay. I am not confident enough to try and remove it and bypass it on the DSP itself.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Theslaking said:


> The noise is a non issue. If you have enough amp you don't hear any associated with DSP. Only heard at all with no music playing. Mini bent over backwards to help me. The were going to re-write programs for me. Get another DSP company to do that. There is 3 protagonist in this thread. One had no real issues, one's issues seem to be mostly (if not all) self inflicted, and the third is having issues still but only with a useless switch for car audio. Now lets add that all three purchased these in what was likely the first production run. Now they are sold by Parts Express and Madisound which have fantastic track records with customer service and returns. The conclusion is one person is complaining about a real problem now. The other two have no issues and all three say the noise is a non-issue.
> 
> I personally will and plan to buy another. These are fantastic for the price. Now if naiku would just teach me how to bypass the switch. :inquisitive:


I hope you're not saying I had no real issues or my issues were self-inflicted. The second 8x12 worked (and is still working) perfectly. They IMMEDIATELY sent the second one out after they saw the flash log that me and Ian did. And the first one had terrible ground noise. I have no ground noise and no real hiss to speak of with the second one. The first one also didn't want to turn on when first hooked up. I never heard back from Minidsp about what was wrong with my first one. I'd really like to know. They know about this thread and are probably still watching it. I still sometimes wish I would have gone Helix but what's done is done and the 8x12 is working great for me.


----------



## Theslaking

I tell you what problems your having! I was talking about you but I just got you confused with the other guy that was pm'ing me about issues. But still your problem was solved with a swap and that's kinda my point. No they didn't want to swap it as a first solution from across the world. When they did the new one worked. So yeah the first runs may have sucked and the Hong Kong thing made it's own problem. However US based sales and beyond first runs now. I personally just think Mini is a great company to deal with, abiet slow at times, and there product concepts are on point. Out of the 7 things I have purchased from them this is the only thing that didn't exceed my expectations and they made it right in the end.


----------



## ryanr7386

Back on the Bandwagon Possibly!


----------



## naiku

I would definitely say mine is a 1st run as well, if I remember correctly they released them in May, and I had ordered mine either in May or early June.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I can't remember when I ordered mine. Late Summer maybe? Still feel like some of us were beta testers for this thing.


----------



## Theslaking

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I can't remember when I ordered mine. Late Summer maybe? Still feel like some of us were beta testers for this thing.


Definitely. The last time I looked almost all the threads were stuff purchased late summer and before. Not to many new people complaining.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I do agree that Minidsp gives awesome customer support. Yes their customs are different in China. Once I realized that everything went smoothly.


----------



## JamesRC

OK, Thanks guys. After reading a PM SQ sent me, and knowing how good my 6x8 is, I'll take my disaster comment back and put the 8x12 back on my bucket list. I only run five output channels, but it would be nice to have a few more bands of EQ.


----------



## naiku

Do any of you know if it is possible to link channels with the MiniDSP software and make TA changes to more than one channel at a time? If I remember correctly, that was something you can do with the Helix (and I think BitOne) but I cannot figure out if I can with the MiniDSP. 

I want to be able to adjust the delay on both midbass at the same time for example, so let's say my left is at 1.5ms and the right at 2.75ms, I want to be able to adjust them both together while listening for changes. What I don't want to do is type in 1.6ms and 2.85ms and listen, then 1.7ms and 2.95ms etc.


----------



## Weightless

Im not in front of the software, but Im not sure you can. You can link the eq settings, but I dont think that applies to the delay. 

When in the output section for the left midbass output, there should be a dropdown. Choose the output for the right midbass and next to it there should be a radio box to check "link". This links the two channels for crossovers and I think the eq, but I am unsure if it links TA.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

When I adjust delay for driver pairs I just toggle between the outputs and use up and down arrows.


----------



## naiku

Weightless said:


> Im not in front of the software, but Im not sure you can. You can link the eq settings, but I don't think that applies to the delay.


You are right, I just checked. 



Hillbilly SQ said:


> When I adjust delay for driver pairs I just toggle between the outputs and use up and down arrows.


While I don't mind doing that, it is soooo much simpler to do using the Helix software. All the time delay is on its own tab, you simply add drivers to a group delay and then use the slider on one of them to adjust the delay on all.

Posted it as a suggestion on the MiniDSP forum


----------



## Velozity

I'll chime in another ounce of support for MiniDSP. My 8x12 has not given me ANY problems and I definitely have one of the first ones produced. I pre-ordered it in May 2017. I absolutely believe we are beta testers but I'm okay with it. I don't feel like we're being abandoned by the company when there is an issue. Just look at all the FW updates they release (on all their products) as a result of bugs discovered in real-world use. They're obviously paying attention to the field and provide more than reasonable after-sales support for being a world away from us. Helix provides great customer support also from what I understand. I had a Helix DSP once. Personally I prefer the MiniDSP GUI over the Helix GUI but maybe I'm just old-school. I also like the ability to hear changes to time-alignment in real time as I scroll the values. IIRC I don't think the Helix does this but I could be wrong. The processing power of the MiniDSP 8x12 is insane and has to be one of if not the fastest DSP on the market. It's not a "disaster" by any means and is well worth $500. It's closest competition is $1200+. It's not the quietest unit as several have experienced, but that can be mitigated with proper gain structure. Until the Zapco DSP V series finally comes out (my end-game processor), the MiniDSP serves me just fine. 

MiniDSP 8x12: 400MHz, 32-bit floating point DSP
Helix DSP Pro: 295MHz, 64-bit fixed point DSP

MiniDSP 8x12: 24-bit ADC/DAC
Helix DSP Pro: 32-bit ADC/DAC

MiniDSP 8x12: 192kHz internal sampling rate
Helix DSP Pro: 96kHz internal sampling rate

MiniDSP 8x12: 6V analog output
Helix DSP Pro: 8V analog output


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Thanks for the feedback guys, good to hear that MiniDSP isn’t doing too badly on the 8x12. I’d jump to an 8x12 in a heartbeat if they added Dirac Live to it. For now I have a 6x8 and (3x) 2x4HD’s to play with.


----------



## naiku

I keep asking them about DIRAC, they always give the same answer that they don't provide any details on things until they are ready to ship.

However, they are not saying they are not working on adding DIRAC, which many people on the MiniDSP forums are also asking for.


----------



## Truthunter

Level matching: Are you guys using the gain settings in the routing tab or in the output tabs to do it?


----------



## Theslaking

Output for me.


----------



## 3MPS23

I use routing for left/right balance and output for sub/mid/tweet balance

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## naiku

3MPS23 said:


> I use routing for left/right balance and output for sub/mid/tweet balance


That's what I do as well.


----------



## Theslaking

3MPS23 said:


> I use routing for left/right balance and output for sub/mid/tweet balance


This is exactly what I do as I didn't respond in detail the first time.

Naiku - Have the little trolls moved out of your DSP yet?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I use output as well for my levels. My 8x12 has settled in good and couldn't be happier. And I'm with Mike on preferring the GUI of the 8x12. I've messed with the Helix software and honestly didn't care for it. I'm sure I'd love it if I got used to it but no reason to switch over to Helix at this point.


----------



## naiku

Theslaking said:


> Naiku - Have the little trolls moved out of your DSP yet?


So far so good after I cleaned the back of the switch some. Should be a good test for it in a couple weeks with the meet here and giving demos. 

I moved it to a different spot in the trunk as well, easier to access it if need be, I also have a relay standing by in case it acts up again.


----------



## nadams5755

I helped a friend with one of these over the weekend. Ford Focus base model radio to high level input, output to arc xdi amps, gain minimum. The setup had floor noise. 

We reduced the input levels to get some more resolution in the factory volume control, then cut the output levels by like 12db and that got rid of most of the floor noise. It still gets loud enough for him.

0->1 was silent to loud, so reducing the input levels a bit helped both the resolution and floor noise. He’s also going to check the 12w/16w high input setting as well.


----------



## naiku

Thought I would post in here. MiniDSP have essentially re-worked the board and will be sending a replacement out and recalling the original boards. See here for some more details:

https://www.minidsp.com/forum/hardware-support/13346-hissing-from-new-c-dsp-8x12?start=90#37494

Pretty damn good service from a small company. They could have simply said it is an 8x12 V2 and us original customers are out of luck. Really happy that hopefully there is an end in sight to the noise.


----------



## Truthunter

naiku said:


> Thought I would post in here. MiniDSP have essentially re-worked the board and will be sending a replacement out and recalling the original boards. See here for some more details:
> 
> https://www.minidsp.com/forum/hardware-support/13346-hissing-from-new-c-dsp-8x12?start=90#37494
> 
> Pretty damn good service from a small company. They could have simply said it is an 8x12 V2 and us original customers are out of luck. Really happy that hopefully there is an end in sight to the noise.


Yes, I saw this late last night. Very happy about this.

Seems like people posting about losing points at competitions and looking for other dsp options if there is no solution in sight encouraged them to post an update. 

Looks like the completely redesigned replacement boards are going to have some upgrades such as 32 bit ADC/DAC chips and other unnamed upgrades to "futureproof" it.

There is also a temporary grounding modification that they posted which some have performed and had good results with lowering the noise floor. I'll be performing this mod shortly and posting results.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Huge props to MiniDSP, this was an expensive choice which will cost them tens of thousands, but should pay dividends to them as a brand.


----------



## beerdrnkr

Just installed my MiniDSP and it's an awesome unit. I have very little noise floor issues but the gains on my amps are very low, so it's about as good as I can get it until the new PCB's are sent out. So far I'm happy with the unit and with the fix coming out soon for it, it should be a homerun!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Glad they redeemed themselves on this issue. Huge respect to them for flat out saying "we messed up". On my 8x12 the hiss is pretty quiet but sometimes it gets louder for no good reason. Wasn't really a problem at all until I installed more efficient tweets. And it looks like someone else on here had the same issue I did with my first unit but remember they solved it by going with a digital cable? Either way the replacement unit has worked flawlessly and still feeding it analog. I wonder how they're going to handle to recall once it happens? Send out new units with a return label for the old one?


----------



## Truthunter

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I wonder how they're going to handle to recall once it happens? Send out new units with a return label for the old one?


From reading "DevTeam"s post on the support forum, it seems as they will just be sending a replacement board... not an entire replacement unit.


----------



## naiku

Truthunter said:


> From reading "DevTeam"s post on the support forum, it seems as they will just be sending a replacement board... not an entire replacement unit.


Correct, they are going to be sending out a board: 

_"The boards are the exact same form factor so an easy swap."_

And

_"Recall will simply be a new board shipped to you. We'll pay all shipping cost and fees. We would however need the old board back so we remove units from the field."_

Not sure yet on return shipping, but I would imagine they are going to provide a label. I am very curious about the "_very neat feature for future proofing for expansion. "_

Wish I could figure out what that is, DIRAC maybe? I know a lot of people have asked them for it, maybe BT or USB streaming direct to the DSP.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

naiku said:


> Truthunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> From reading "DevTeam"s post on the support forum, it seems as they will just be sending a replacement board... not an entire replacement unit.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, they are going to be sending out a board:
> 
> _"The boards are the exact same form factor so an easy swap."_
> 
> And
> 
> _"Recall will simply be a new board shipped to you. We'll pay all shipping cost and fees. We would however need the old board back so we remove units from the field."_
> 
> Not sure yet on return shipping, but I would imagine they are going to provide a label. I am very curious about the "_very neat feature for future proofing for expansion. "_
> 
> Wish I could figure out what that is, DIRAC maybe? I know a lot of people have asked them for it, maybe BT or USB streaming direct to the DSP.
Click to expand...

They’ve changed the DSP chip as far as I know, so I have a sneaking hunch that they were having difficulties implementing FIR and needed more power.


----------



## naiku

Could be right, I think at the moment they only have FIR on the miniSHARC and the OpenDRC. I guess no way of knowing what it is until they send out the replacement boards and post the details.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

naiku said:


> Could be right, I think at the moment they only have FIR on the miniSHARC and the OpenDRC. I guess no way of knowing what it is until they send out the replacement boards and post the details.


They also have it on the 2x4 HD, but that’s the same DSP chip as they were using in the 8x12. The 2x4 HD has 4 outputs, whereas the 8x12 has 12. I was curious how they planned to pull it off, and now it seems they’ve swapped the chips which makes sense.


----------



## bbfoto

I'm in to see how these units perform with the new boards, and what changes they bring to the table regarding the "future proofing".


----------



## JamesRC

What exactly is FIR??? I’ve seen it mentioned a few times in relation to these. Just curious.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I sure do hope they include a return shipping label since they can probably do it way cheaper than the average joe off the street.


----------



## naiku

JamesRC said:


> What exactly is FIR??? I’ve seen it mentioned a few times in relation to these. Just curious.


Here you go: https://www.minidsp.com/applications/dsp-basics/fir-vs-iir-filtering


----------



## unix_usr

JamesRC said:


> What exactly is FIR??? I’ve seen it mentioned a few times in relation to these. Just curious.




FIR - means finite impulse response. Theres a pretty good explanation here on wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_impulse_response

But... the very simplified version is that an FIR filter can be applied only so a very specific range rather than to everything - essentially allowing much tighter control without stepping on other filters. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JamesRC

naiku said:


> Here you go: https://www.minidsp.com/applications/dsp-basics/fir-vs-iir-filtering





unix_usr said:


> FIR - means finite impulse response. Theres a pretty good explanation here on wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_impulse_response
> 
> But... the very simplified version is that an FIR filter can be applied only so a very specific range rather than to everything - essentially allowing much tighter control without stepping on other filters.


Thanks, guys. Interesting!


----------



## ryanr7386

Curious, looks like they are sold out. Does anyone know when they will be shipping out the newly modified units?


----------



## terryna

Indeed, very interesting thread


----------



## Theslaking

ryanr7386 said:


> Curious, looks like they are sold out. Does anyone know when they will be shipping out the newly modified units?


Probably not as much "sold out" as waiting for new version. 

Anyway. Anybody take apart a remote yet or have any advice about it? I'm about to attempt to adapt it to my factory HU. Never tried nothing like it before.


----------



## unix_usr

Theslaking said:


> Probably not as much "sold out" as waiting for new version.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway. Anybody take apart a remote yet or have any advice about it? I'm about to attempt to adapt it to my factory HU. Never tried nothing like it before.




Im doing exactly that  - the minidsp remote uses CAN bus... makes it relatively easy to interface with. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Theslaking

I just emailed Mini as well. They are usually pretty helpful with this type of stuff.


----------



## Velozity

unix_usr said:


> Im doing exactly that  - the minidsp remote uses CAN bus... makes it relatively easy to interface with.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Interesting... Details??


----------



## Theslaking

Personally I'm undecided if I want to just extend wires so to speak or actually interface it with a board. Depends on what Mini says. If not I'll just gut the Factory HU and throw the remote inside and tie the buttons into the changer controls physically, swap out the volume knob and call it a day. My initial idea is to use the factory disc player and radio as a output. Use preset 3 and 4 as radio and disc by setting different routing, then 1+2 will be my normal playback through Bluetooth via coaxial.


----------



## ckirocz28

Anyone know when that was posted about the recall, or when the new boards will ship? I have some barely noticeable hiss that I don't mind, but I'm all about a free upgrade that will eliminate it altogether.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


----------



## Velozity

Theslaking said:


> Personally I'm undecided if I want to just extend wires so to speak or actually interface it with a board. Depends on what Mini says. If not I'll just gut the Factory HU and throw the remote inside and tie the buttons into the changer controls physically, swap out the volume knob and call it a day. My initial idea is to use the factory disc player and radio as a output. Use preset 3 and 4 as radio and disc by setting different routing, then 1+2 will be my normal playback through Bluetooth via coaxial.




If you go that route I've got pictures of it dismantled on my build thread.


----------



## Theslaking

I got the remote in the mail. I read through your entire thread. Your crazy in an awesome kinda of way!. The pics of tunneling the leds are gone. But still interesting.


----------



## Theslaking

So I have documented the turn on pop. I attributed it to my Sound Monitor HU. Well it's not. I took it out and I'm not even using a HU and the pop is back. I started noticing it right away. It was so low I paid no mind. Well I hooked the subs back up and it's loud now. Damn it!. Where's my new board!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I'm sure they're doing the best they can. They seem to really care about their customers even if their customs are different from ours. I have big respect for them flat out saying they screwed up. Takes great integrity to admit you messed up and then promise you'll fix it no matter the cost. I think they'll keep their word but this will take time.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'm sure they're doing the best they can. They seem to really care about their customers even if their customs are different from ours. I have big respect for them flat out saying they screwed up. Takes great integrity to admit you messed up and then promise you'll fix it no matter the cost. I think they'll keep their word but this will take time.


I feel the same way, I have much more respect for the brand after they did that. Now if only they’d get around to enabling i2s on the 2x4hd’s that I have..


----------



## Theslaking

I agree too. I'm just putting it back out there as they are aware of this thread.


----------



## naiku

Was the miniDSP WI-DG always available for use with the 8x12? I don't think that it was, but went to the MiniDSP site a few minutes ago (trying to see if there is any updated info on new boards) and noticed it was listed on the product page. 

While it looks like a cool gadget, it seems pretty limited in what it can do. Using WiFi to connect to the DSP would be neat, but it never really bothers me having to plug in the USB cable since I am taking the laptop out to the car anyway. Using Alexa to change volume etc. makes no sense for me as mine is controlled via steering wheel controls. 

Funny thing is the other day I was wondering if you could hook up a chromecast audio to the MiniDSP. Would be neat to be able to cast things from my tablet (or phone) directly to the DSP, but it would require a wifi network. I wonder if with the Wifi DG module streaming via BT, WiFi or USB direct will eventually work.


----------



## unix_usr

Velozity said:


> Interesting... Details??




Hoping to re-start my build this weekend, will take some pics and start a new build thread. The jist of it is that I intend to trick the miniDSP into thinking the Ford OEM volume, mute, and preset buttons are that of the miniDSP remote, and likewise trick the Ford OEM system into thinking the miniDSP is like the “premium” sony branded “upgrade”... both speak CAN bus and i Have all the back/forth commands documented for the Ford side; still working in the miniDSP end of it (kinda have to hack it a bit - I asked, but miniDSP not willing to release the firmware specs for remote-dsp... my plan is to just hook it up with a can bus reader on a raspberry pi and log the output as i do stuff on the remote). 

Ultimately I am aiming for seamless oem integration whereby the vehicle sends fixed pre-amp signal and the cars steering wheel/dash/etc volume controls the miniDSP master volume. The preset selection is going to be another story, but i want to attempt to re-use the sync settings page for “listener position” as preset. 1-4: driver, passenger, all, and other...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Anyone here have their remote suddenly stop working? After powering up the new install I noticed my remote wasn't working. No lights or anything. Tried two different cables with one of them brand new. Luckily I think I can get away with not having it hooked up in this install thanks to the aftermarket headunit but would be nice to have if I need it.


----------



## Theslaking

Yes. I had to update the firmware.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I'll have to mess with that later. I remember having issues updating it before. I'm puter illiterate though.


----------



## Theslaking

I've been contacted.


----------



## Truthunter

Theslaking said:


> I've been contacted.


Ditto


----------



## naiku

My replacement is somewhere between JFK and here, got to JFK airport on Saturday, hopeful it gets here before the meet this weekend.


----------



## ckirocz28

naiku said:


> My replacement is somewhere between JFK and here, got to JFK airport on Saturday, hopeful it gets here before the meet this weekend.


When did you send them all of your info? I just emailed mine today.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Still waiting to be contacted.


----------



## bbfoto

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Still waiting to be contacted.


Check your spam or junk email folders just in case.


----------



## Theslaking

Mine's on its way. They contacted my yesterday shipped today.


----------



## Velozity

Are they contacting everyone who purchased an 8x12 or just those that have documented issues with them? I haven't received an email and I was one of the first to order the thing, lol.


----------



## Theslaking

I would assume you would have had to contact them about a previous issue. There is a statement their support forum.


----------



## naiku

Send them an email, they will send one back asking for proof you are the original owner (picture of serial on bottom of DSP), your address and a disclaimer/agreement about returning the old board.


----------



## Truthunter

Yes, looks like, as of right now, they are only contacting those that have submitted a tech support ticket about the issue.

I emailed the requested info last night... waiting to hear back...


----------



## naiku

They were pretty quick to respond to me, most likely you will get a shipment notification today. Keep checking tracking on mine, still showing with customs in NY since Friday.


----------



## Truthunter

naiku said:


> They were pretty quick to respond to me, most likely you will get a shipment notification today. Keep checking tracking on mine, still showing with customs in NY since Friday.


You were right! Received shipping notification late last night... Shows will arrive on Monday.


----------



## Theslaking

Same here.


----------



## naiku

At the rate customs are taking to clear mine, you guys might get them before I do. No idea what the hold up is with mine, been sitting there 5 days now. I'm kind of hoping it's just the tracking has not updated, but unlikely to be that, it's just stuck for some reason.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

naiku said:


> At the rate customs are taking to clear mine, you guys might get them before I do. No idea what the hold up is with mine, been sitting there 5 days now. I'm kind of hoping it's just the tracking has not updated, but unlikely to be that, it's just stuck for some reason.


I've had tracking completely stop numerous times once it entered the U.S. 5 days later the unit was in my hands but still said it was at its first stop in the U.S.


----------



## Theslaking

It's never taken more than 3 days for me to get stuff from them. Amazes me every time. When I bought the extra remote it was at my house 2 days later.


----------



## naiku

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I've had tracking completely stop numerous times once it entered the U.S. 5 days later the unit was in my hands but still said it was at its first stop in the U.S.


That's what I am hoping, nothing today though, just checked the mail and unlikely to get here tomorrow with the snow in the forecast.



Theslaking said:


> It's never taken more than 3 days for me to get stuff from them. Amazes me every time. When I bought the extra remote it was at my house 2 days later.


That has been my experience as well, when I first bought my 8x12 it got here very quickly. My replacement board was shipped on the 8th, the last update says "Processed Through Facility ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)" and that was at about 11am on the 10th.


----------



## Velozity

So did you guys get your replacement boards in yet? Noticeable improvement? I still need to take a picture of my s/n and send to MiniDSP for validation before they ship the new board to me.


----------



## naiku

Got mine today, customs finally released it last night and i got it this afternoon. It will likely be Wednesday that I can install it. Here are some pics of the new board:


























No real clue what I am looking at, but left the pictures pretty large in case you guys wanted to check anything out. There is a new jumper up in the top right corner of the image, looks to have 4 positions, mounted above the large capacitor. Overall, it feels like a much better quality than my V1 board, not that the V1 felt poor, but to me this appears much better.


----------



## nadams5755

naiku said:


> There is a new jumper up in the top right corner of the image, looks to have 4 positions, mounted above the large capacitor.


probably controls the coupling of output common. common to chassis/ground, isolated to input common, and 200ohm resistor between input common and output common. i don't know what *1nf* is though


----------



## Theslaking

I came home to a stupid FedEx door tag.


----------



## ckirocz28

Here's a copy and paste from my post on the MiniDSP forum:
I missed mine, I'll have to pick it up at the post office tomorrow. For those still waiting and wondering about shipping times I'm attaching a screenshot.


----------



## Truthunter

I received my replacement board today... hope to get it installed this weekend.


----------



## Theslaking

I swapped out my board a little bit ago. There is noticeable differences. I am trying to upload pics but my photo hosting apps isn't working right now.


----------



## naiku

Have you had a chance to listen to it yet? How's the noise? You still getting the turn on pop?

If work is quiet tomorrow I may sneak to the garage and swap mine over, but I might end up trying to get a stupid ATV I have fixed instead.


----------



## Theslaking

Here's the comparison pic. The one on the right/bottom is the new one.



I didn't get to listen yet. Tomorrow night.


----------



## Theslaking

Yeah! Installed! Noise is much lower. Something is definitely different. My HU does not clip. Max is 80 I can go all the way without distortion. I had to have the master volume at 0db with current gain settings before to max out my system. There was noise all the way through the DSP's volume. Now I have master volume at -26. I have a small amount of noise at 0db and lose all noise at -12. So what that means is I can now be noise free. Fantastic. The ridiculous pop is gone. Right now it's seems like a winner. I'm not going to mess with it much more as everything has to come out as some ******* backed in to me in a parking lot and didn't stop. Destroyed my trunk lid and bent up the car a bit behind the lid.


----------



## Theslaking

So are we to destroy the old boards or send them back at our own cost? If this board works I personally have no problem spending $15 bucks to send the old board back. With the excellent, self induced warranty swap Minidsp gave it's the least I can do.


----------



## naiku

Theslaking said:


> So are we to destroy the old boards or send them back at our own cost? If this board works I personally have no problem spending $15 bucks to send the old board back. With the excellent, self induced warranty swap Minidsp gave it's the least I can do.


It was my understanding that we are to send them back, I was not sure though if they would include a label or something. I am equally fine to spend the $15 or so to send the old one back, for the exact reasons you mention. I think it's amazing customer service that they did not just re-design the board and sell it as a version 2 for a price bump, but kept the price the same and are swapping out the V1 boards at no cost to the end user.

Edit: Swapped mine over, no noise at all from the new board. Going to try to find some time to re-adjust gains, but for now am happy. Confused me for a second putting the cover back on with the new board, I did not realize they had included new power and speaker level input plugs... cue head scratching as to why my cover would not fit back over until I realized the plugs were on.


----------



## Theslaking

naiku said:


> Confused me for a second putting the cover back on with the new board, I did not realize they had included new power and speaker level input plugs... cue head scratching as to why my cover would not fit back over until I realized the plugs were on.


I added a little more dumbasary to that. I noticed the speaker plug and removed it. Then I couldn't figure why the power harness would not fit in the hole. I actually ran through the tools I own in my head to see which would cut the case the best. Then I set it down, look at the speaker plug on the table and face palm! Removed the power plug and it fit right on.


----------



## naiku

Haha I'd be lying though if I said I did not do the same thing, wondering how I could cut the case to make it fit, before realizing the plugs were on there.

I have noticed something strange though, in the software I cannot change the subwoofer level, the one at the top next to the master volume. Previously I could just type a value in there, noticed it showing -115.5dB, tried to enter -15dB and it just reverts to -115.5dB. The sub is playing fine, not tested changing the level with the remote yet, but the software has a glitch.


----------



## Theslaking

Double check you have an output selected as a subwoofer in the drop down menu


----------



## ckirocz28

naiku said:


> Haha I'd be lying though if I said I did not do the same thing, wondering how I could cut the case to make it fit, before realizing the plugs were on there.
> 
> I have noticed something strange though, in the software I cannot change the subwoofer level, the one at the top next to the master volume. Previously I could just type a value in there, noticed it showing -115.5dB, tried to enter -15dB and it just reverts to -115.5dB. The sub is playing fine, not tested changing the level with the remote yet, but the software has a glitch.


I had a problem changing sub volume too, with the remote. The subwoofer channels were not set. I'm very happy with mine and will also be happy to pay for shipping the old board back.
Just for fun, I measured the noise at the tweeter grill, with a background (environmental) noise floor of 40 db the noise coming from the tweeter measured 45 db, for comparison my analog watch ticks at 55-64 db. Both measurements were done with Audiotool on Android with the phone mic in contact with the measured item.


----------



## naiku

Theslaking said:


> Double check you have an output selected as a subwoofer in the drop down menu


That was it, thanks.

Does anyone else think the new board sounds a little better? Same exact tune, maybe it's just placebo, but mine definitely appears to have some noticeable improvement.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

naiku said:


> That was it, thanks.
> 
> Does anyone else think the new board sounds a little better? Same exact tune, maybe it's just placebo, but mine definitely appears to have some noticeable improvement.


Its a substantially better DAC chip, so I'd be surprised if it didn't sound better. It's using the same chip as the Helix DSP Pro MkII now.


----------



## ckirocz28

naiku said:


> That was it, thanks.
> 
> Does anyone else think the new board sounds a little better? Same exact tune, maybe it's just placebo, but mine definitely appears to have some noticeable improvement.


Definitely sounds better, I think part of it is the lack of hiss, kind of like road noise masking details. It may have screwed with measurements, too. I'm also sure the upgraded components produce a better quality signal. It also prompted a complete retune for my system, which really improved things.


----------



## Truthunter

Finally swapped mine out. Noise floor is gone. I had been running a Dayton DSP-408 while waiting for the new board so can't really comment on it sounding better then the last board.


----------



## nadams5755

Does the v2 have the akm ak5558nv dac that’s on the helix? i can’t tell from the board pics. 

If so, it should have selectable output filtering. Any idea which mode they chose if it’s not selectable?


> Four Types Digital Low-pass Filters
> - Short Delay Sharp Roll-off, GD=5/fs
> - Short Delay Slow Roll-off, GD=5/fs
> - Sharp Roll-off
> - Slow Roll-off


https://www.akm.com/akm/en/aboutus/news/20160701AK555XAK553X_001/?link_id=link187

Playing with that setting in the helix, they make a tiny difference in sound.

Edit: It looks like they’re using 5556 (6ch) and two 4456 (6ch). Maybe they’re chained for output, or the 5556 is for input ADC and 4456s are for output DAC


----------



## GreatLaBroski

nadams5755 said:


> Does the v2 have the akm ak5558nv dac that’s on the helix? i can’t tell from the board pics.
> 
> If so, it should have selectable output filtering. Any idea which mode they chose if it’s not selectable?
> 
> 
> Playing with that setting in the helix, they make a tiny difference in sound.


The new 8x12 has the AKM AK4458. I remember seeing a series of board shots of the DSP Mk.II and thought I saw the AK4458. If it's the AK5558, then I'm _technically_ wrong in saying that they're the same DAC chips. But, the AK4458 and the AK5558 are both 8-channel velvet sound 32-bit DAC chips with 115db s/n ratio. The 4458 actually has 1db less THD+N at (-107db vs -106db for the 5558). 

So they're effectively the same chips as far as I can tell. I can't see any differences glancing at the spec sheets. Configured with the same oversampling filters in firmware, I'd expect for them to sound identical.


----------



## dcfis

https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/featured/audiomarketvoices/audiotecfischer/

What does the .2 use


----------



## naiku

Any of you heard anything about sending the V1 board back yet? I posted on the MiniDSP forum and have heard nothing. Might email them to see what the plans are.


----------



## Theslaking

The way I read it was ideally they would have us send them back. But I think they didn't want to soak the cost of return shipping so they're asking that we destroy the boards instead.

Like I said I'm still willing to ship them back if they actually want the board on my own dime. So if you hear back from them let us know.


----------



## naiku

Theslaking said:


> The way I read it was ideally they would have us send them back. But I think they didn't want to soak the cost of return shipping so they're asking that we destroy the boards instead.
> 
> Like I said I'm still willing to ship them back if they actually want the board on my own dime. So if you hear back from them let us know.


Sent them an email earlier, will let you know once I hear back from them. I have to say, if they don't want it back, I would be lying if I would not try to set it up somehow to use in the house. 

Finally started hacking up your remote earlier, for now just removing one of the buttons to see if I have enough clearance for where I want to mount it. Not sure that I do, but somewhat hopeful.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Man, had I known that they weren't going to request back the v1's, I would have bought a v1 so I could have two. That way I could test output stage mods on the extra unit. :laugh:


----------



## naiku

Got a reply back from Mini:

"Providing you don’t resell the board, you’re free to keep it. Note however, if this board is ever resold, it would break the agreement that you agreed upon which we clearly highlighted in our email. If there is any doubt, maybe just trash the board then there is zero confusion. "

I have zero plans to ever resell the board and to be honest, would feel pretty crappy doing so considering how good MiniDSP have been about the whole thing. Figure I'll tinker with it for use on the house and when I likely break something during said tinkering, throw it away.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

naiku said:


> Got a reply back from Mini:
> 
> "Providing you don’t resell the board, you’re free to keep it. Note however, if this board is ever resold, it would break the agreement that you agreed upon which we clearly highlighted in our email. If there is any doubt, maybe just trash the board then there is zero confusion. "
> 
> I have zero plans to ever resell the board and to be honest, would feel pretty crappy doing so considering how good MiniDSP have been about the whole thing. Figure I'll tinker with it for use on the house and when I likely break something during said tinkering, throw it away.


Test op-amp and output stage upgrades!


----------



## Robkh1984

Hi folks, I'm looking into adding a DSP for my 2016 Toyota 4Runner. Ideally, I'd like the capabilities of Dirac Live, but see the C-DSP 8x12 as one option as well. 

Here's my setup: 

Pioneer AVIC 8200-NEX Headunit with RCA preouts. 

Front RCAs to Alpine PDX-F6 150W 4-channel amp, bridged to power Hertz MPK 163.3 PRO Millie 3-way 6.5" separate components

Rear RCAs with Y splitters to Alpine PDX-F6 150W 4-channel amp powering Hertz HSK 165 XL 2-way 6.5" separates for the rear doors and the same speakers 2-way 6.5" separate components for the rear hatch

Sub RCAs to Alpine PDX-F6 mono amp powering 1 12" JL Audio w6v3 sub

(All component sets have passive crossovers.)

Some questions: 

What are my best options, combinations of the miniDSP HD or other modules that have Dirac Live, a C-DSP 8x12, or the 8x12 + something else that can allow for Dirac Live? 

Would I need a USB to SPDIF converter or would the RCAs preouts be ok? 

If the best option is the 8x12, then should all RCAs go into the 8x12 and have each output signal from the 8x12 go to each speaker in the components (10) and 1 to the sub (+1)? Would I need to have 11 channels of amplification to make this work or can I run any of the rear door or rear hatch speakers in parrallel? 

Or, is the better option to take advantage of the passive crossovers for each component speaker set to have 6 channels run out of the 8x12 and each channel is powered by the amp separately (not in parralel)? 

Many thanks!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

So, I inquired about getting the revised board for mine. Apparently they never got the defective processor I sent back to them. I ran the tracking number and it says "label created...package not in system". From the looks of it the furthest the defective processor got was the post office when I sent it off. I filled out all the customs forms and all that. They won't send me a replacement board for the recalled board until they get the one I sent back. I guess they would send the revised board if they could determine that I held up my end of the deal and the shipper messed up. I'm emailing usps to see if they can help. My guess is they'll tell me I should have contacted them about this over a year ago and to pound sand but have no choice but to try to solve this mystery now. If I would have known minidsp hadn't gotten it in a timely manner I would have gotten right on it over here. I never heard back from them so assumed it made it. This doesn't sit right with me that I'm just now finding out they didn't get it. Now the one in my truck now is working fine even though there is somewhat of a noise floor that may or may not be install related. It's low enough that I'm not in any big hurry to see if I just need to move some wires around under the carpet. It's silent with engine off and the faint bit of weeeeeeeeeee and what sounds like a hint of fuel pump or something isn't even audible over the sound of tire noise and a HEMI singing under the hood.


----------



## Theslaking

They never even responded to me about returning the bad one so I still have it. So why did you have to send yours in. How did that conversation come about?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Theslaking said:


> They never even responded to me about returning the bad one so I still have it. So why did you have to send yours in. How did that conversation come about?


They wanted to figure out why it was responding the way it was. They were quick to get another sent out after viewing the flash log I provided so they obviously decided it was the unit they said they tested THREE times before sending it out. The replacement fixed my problem so we know which end the problem was on. I remember reading on here someone else had the same problem I did with theirs and their fix was to run optical to it instead of rca. For a bit I thought he might have gotten the one I had to send back but maybe not...


----------



## naiku

Theslaking said:


> They never even responded to me about returning the bad one so I still have it. So why did you have to send yours in. How did that conversation come about?


Same here, I emailed them and they basically said to throw the V1 board out.



Hillbilly SQ said:


> They wanted to figure out why it was responding the way it was. They were quick to get another sent out after viewing the flash log I provided so they obviously decided it was the unit they said they tested THREE times before sending it out. The replacement fixed my problem so we know which end the problem was on. I remember reading on here someone else had the same problem I did with theirs and their fix was to run optical to it instead of rca. For a bit I thought he might have gotten the one I had to send back but maybe not...


So, am I reading this right. You had a defective V1 that you were sending back to them, in the meantime they had already sent you a replacement V1 board, acknowledging your original was defective.

Somewhere along the line the defective V1 board you sent back (for non noise related issues) got lost in the postal system. This sounds like it happened before they even released the V2 boards.

You are now trying to get a V2 board, but Mini are saying they never received that original defective V1 board and so not sending a V2.

Currently you have a V1 installed? What if you ask about returning the V1 you currently have in exchange for a V2? I would think if you can send back the 2nd V1 board they sent you, along with proof that you did send that original defective one, they would send you the V2. Do you have copies of the customs form with the date on it? receipt from the post office with date and address?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

You are correct Ian. And that flash log you helped me do was apparently enough to convince them I had a bad board originally. And no I don't have the proper paper trailLesson learned. If push comes to shove I'll just stick with the v1 board.


----------



## evo9

If has not already done. Have any of you guys pointed min DSP to this thread? Seems there some double standard on their behalf. They need to have one policy on the return or destruction of the defective board. If they don't want the board back, they should ask for a picture of the board broken in half showing the serial number.


----------



## evo9

Hillbilly SQ said:


> So, I inquired about getting the revised board for mine. Apparently they never got the defective processor I sent back to them. I ran the tracking number and it says "label created...package not in system". From the looks of it the furthest the defective processor got was the post office when I sent it off. I filled out all the customs forms and all that. They won't send me a replacement board for the recalled board until they get the one I sent back. I guess they would send the revised board if they could determine that I held up my end of the deal and the shipper messed up. I'm emailing usps to see if they can help. My guess is they'll tell me I should have contacted them about this over a year ago and to pound sand but have no choice but to try to solve this mystery now. If I would have known minidsp hadn't gotten it in a timely manner I would have gotten right on it over here. I never heard back from them so assumed it made it. This doesn't sit right with me that I'm just now finding out they didn't get it. Now the one in my truck now is working fine even though there is somewhat of a noise floor that may or may not be install related. It's low enough that I'm not in any big hurry to see if I just need to move some wires around under the carpet. It's silent with engine off and the faint bit of weeeeeeeeeee and what sounds like a hint of fuel pump or something isn't even audible over the sound of tire noise and a HEMI singing under the hood.



If you still have the post office receipt, showing the date & stamped customs form. That should be enough for them to work with you. Also, fault on them for not contacting you of the part not being returned on time.


----------



## evo9

Hillbilly SQ said:


> You are correct Ian. And that flash log you helped me do was apparently enough to convince them I had a bad board originally. And no I don't have the proper paper trailLesson learned. If push comes to shove I'll just stick with the v1 board.


Just saw this after my post


----------



## Truthunter

New 8x12 "DL" version now features Dirac Live cabin correction on 8 of it's 12 outputs.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/cdsp-8x12-dl


----------



## JVD240

Truthunter said:


> New 8x12 "DL" version now features Dirac Live cabin correction on 8 of it's 12 outputs.
> 
> https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/cdsp-8x12-dl


Oh damn. That's looking pretty appealing.


----------



## Theslaking

Is it really worth the added price tag? I don't know I barely even know about Dirac live.


----------



## Notloudenuf

Theslaking said:


> Is it really worth the added price tag? I don't know I barely even know about Dirac live.


What's Dirac and why is it worth $400?


----------



## naiku

Truthunter said:


> New 8x12 "DL" version now features Dirac Live cabin correction on 8 of it's 12 outputs.
> 
> https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/cdsp-8x12-dl


Will be keeping an eye out for this piece.... 

"Also note that existing CDSP 8x12 customers will be able to upgrade with a simple infield upgrade. Details of this upgrade to be published in the coming 3-4weeks once the software flashing tools are ready. Thanks for your patience!"

Depending on the price to upgrade I may look into it, while my tune is sounding pretty good, there are pieces I cannot quite get right. I wonder if they will get the upgrade out in time for Jason's meet next month, might be kind of cool to have it by then if so...... OK, have to wait on the price. 



Theslaking said:


> Is it really worth the added price tag? I don't know I barely even know about Dirac live.





Notloudenuf said:


> What's Dirac and why is it worth $400?


https://www.dirac.com/live-automotive


----------



## Truthunter

naiku said:


> "Also note that existing CDSP 8x12 customers will be able to upgrade with a simple infield upgrade. Details of this upgrade to be published in the coming 3-4weeks once the software flashing tools are ready. Thanks for your patience!"


Hot Damn!... I missed that information!


----------



## GreatLaBroski

naiku said:


> Truthunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> New 8x12 "DL" version now features Dirac Live cabin correction on 8 of it's 12 outputs.
> 
> https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/cdsp-8x12-dl
> 
> 
> 
> Will be keeping an eye out for this piece....
> 
> "Also note that existing CDSP 8x12 customers will be able to upgrade with a simple infield upgrade. Details of this upgrade to be published in the coming 3-4weeks once the software flashing tools are ready. Thanks for your patience!"
> 
> Depending on the price to upgrade I may look into it, while my tune is sounding pretty good, there are pieces I cannot quite get right. I wonder if they will get the upgrade out in time for Jason's meet next month, might be kind of cool to have it by then if so...... OK, have to wait on the price.
> 
> 
> 
> Theslaking said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it really worth the added price tag? I don't know I barely even know about Dirac live.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notloudenuf said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's Dirac and why is it worth $400?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> https://www.dirac.com/live-automotive
Click to expand...

YESSSS damn I’ve been waiting for that. Looks like I’ll be shelfing my custom DSP plans for now. I’m looking forward to that plugin.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

After being denied a v2 board I'm a Helix guy now. I have an 8x12 here with a v1 board that I can't sell without getting crucified for doing so. I no longer have quirky software issues that I have to remember to cycle through to keep it from freezing up once connected. The 8x12 already has a new home in its sights and no money is being exchanged. Told a good buddy he could play with it.


----------



## bbfoto

I'm currently looking for a *v2* MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 if anyone is looking to sell theirs!  Not interested in the Dirac Live for the moment.

How long did shipping take for everyone to get their original units from miniDSP???


----------



## naiku

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'm a Helix guy now.


How are you liking the Helix? 



Hillbilly SQ said:


> The 8x12 already has a new home in its sights and no money is being exchanged. Told a good buddy he could play with it.


I kind of want to do something with my V1 board, but for now it just sits in the box under my desk. 



bbfoto said:


> How long did shipping take for everyone to get their original units from miniDSP???


It was pretty quick IIRC, I think only about a week from MiniDSP to me.


----------



## JCsAudio

Curious to know how Dirac Live cabin correction is any different than using REW auto EQ and programming the correction filters into the DSP?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

naiku said:


> How are you liking the Helix?


Haven't done more than just flash the board with crossovers and time alignment. My FAINT ground noise is gone and slight turn-off pop is now gone. It's tough finding a quiet time to do actual tuning between neighbors that think this gravel road is a freeway and dogs barking. Hope to do some tuning this evening after things quiet down outside. Bring on the rumors of what I'm doing out there with my laptop. PORN! I'm watching PORN!:laugh:


----------



## Theslaking

Hillbilly, you can sell your V1 if you didn't get a replacement. They just didn't like the idea of people lying to get a extra for free then profiting by selling it all while circulating a product that wasn't up to par.

I forgot why they denied you?

It only takes me about 3 days to get stuff from Minidsp.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Theslaking said:


> Hillbilly, you can sell your V1 if you didn't get a replacement. They just didn't like the idea of people lying to get a extra for free then profiting by selling it all while circulating a product that wasn't up to par.
> 
> I forgot why they denied you?
> 
> It only takes me about 3 days to get stuff from Minidsp.


The bad one they had me send back "got lost" in the mail. Tracking said it never left the post office after I dropped it off.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Hillbilly SQ said:


> The bad one they had me send back "got lost" in the mail. Tracking said it never left the post office after I dropped it off.


Oof. I had a similar thing happen with USPS before. I had to bug the postmaster to do a search for it and it turned up. From then on I always wait in line to get an acceptance scan instead of dropping off pre-labeled packages.


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## SiW80

The quarterly MiniDSP newsletter includes the 8x12DL 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chris12

Truthunter said:


> New 8x12 "DL" version now features Dirac Live cabin correction on 8 of it's 12 outputs.
> 
> https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/cdsp-8x12-dl


This is VERY tempting. I’ll probably end up buying one of these in the next month or two..


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## viking1

Now if only they could integrate some kind of upmixing for surround sound (e.g. harmon Logic7) ... Then I'd be over the moon.


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## JVD240

Dirac has a bunch of processing algorithms including a center channel. It's just unclear, at this point, if it can/will be implemented in this platform.


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## Bnlcmbcar

V8toilet said:


> Curious to know how Dirac Live cabin correction is any different than using REW auto EQ and programming the correction filters into the DSP?


https://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-room-correction/dirac-live-vs-rew


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## Elgrosso

Wow finally they did it, very cool unit now. Put an ms8 L7 in front and get best of both world 
Now I wonder, that's a lot of channel corrections for one sharc.
Or maybe with Dirac v2.0 you can distribute the taps?


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## GreatLaBroski

Elgrosso said:


> Wow finally they did it, very cool unit now. Put an ms8 L7 in front and get best of both world <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Razz" class="inlineimg" />
> Now I wonder, that's a lot of channel corrections for one sharc.
> Or maybe with Dirac v2.0 you can distribute the taps?


Dirac kind of “cheats” by doing IIR/FIR hybrid filters to optimize the resources available. So it tends to punch above its weight.


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## Chris12

I’m not sure if this information is available yet but is the Dirac live tuning software for the 8x12DL Mac compatible?


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## Bnlcmbcar

Elgrosso said:


> Wow finally they did it, very cool unit now. Put an ms8 L7 in front and get best of both world


I was thinking the same thing but it looks like one will have to settle for 5.1 vs 7.1 due to the 6 analog inputs. But hey I’m not complaining. it’s good thing that I’m even able to say “settling for 5.1” !


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## naiku

MiniDSP posted a little more info:

- They are currently working on final touches to the manual
- It won't be Dirac 2.0 as it would require a further set of testing. It's best we see some experience with the current dirac which is a lot more stable at this stage for our case. 
- The processing path is very similar to the DDRC-24 but with Input -> Dirac - > Matrix mixer (allowing to upmix say front L to 3way) - > 12 x out with the typical processing of the 8x12.

Sounds like while it won't initially have Dirac 2.0, that eventually it may well as part of a software update.


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## EvAnA

"Features
400MHz 32bit Sharc Floating point processor
Dirac Live technology helps tune your cabin environment
32bit DAC/ADC chipsets
THD+N 0.0007%, 115dB SNR
Digital and analog inputs (Low/High levels), 12 analog outputs
*Flexible DSP processing blocks, Rear Fill processing (L-R, L+R..) thanks to internal matrix*
Fully differential balanced inputs
Windows/Mac compatible GUI
Remote control or preset/master & sub volume control"

While I don't see mention of center processing, is the above the proper way rear fill should be processed?
And if that is the case, couldn't center be done as well by using matrix options as well?
Someone educate me please.


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## Nirvana

It seems the "DL" version is identical to the C-DSP 8x12 V2.0, but adds only the Dirac Live feature. Everything else appears to be the same.


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## EvAnA

I found an old post by Andy on the MS8.
"The real benefit of a center channel and signal steering in cars is that the center image isn't created by the sum of the left and right speakers as it is in simple stereo. Information that's common to both left and right is sent to the center and atenuated by 6dB in the left and right. The difference between this arrangement and the common L+R (mono center) is that configuration narrows the stage by design."

I might of answered my own question by finding this, but the 8x12 and 8x12 DL aren't able to separate out the "common L/R" signal with their matrix correct?


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## nadams5755

many upmixers attenuate center by 12-15db, but there's the other steering algorithms that don't obliterate width. i doubt the 8x12 has it.


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## jdunk54nl

Rear fill (From my understanding after reading way too many threads on it) is where the Left and right signal get summed together and anything common in the two signals gets deleted (L-R/R-L). So if vocals are in both left and right, they get deleted from the final output.

Rear fill also needs to be delayed around 20ms and cut about 6-10db. 

This gives the illusion of reflections by being delayed and cut.

Center is kind of the opposite. It is the sum of the signal but should only keep what is common and delete the rest. So in this case the vocals stay but the other stuff gets deleted.

We can easily get L-R/R-L or L+R based on how we hook up speakers to our amps. But to get L+R and then take away all of the not common stuff for center takes processing. Which is the challenge with center.


Please correct me if I am wrong...I have just been reading a lot on this the past few weeks to see how to implement both to see if I like it. Center is out in my planned install due to the processing requirements.


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## viking1

Does anyone know what the differences between Dirac Live 2.0 (in this implementation) and Dirac Unison are?


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## Bnlcmbcar

viking1 said:


> Does anyone know what the differences between Dirac Live 2.0 (in this implementation) and Dirac Unison are?


Dirac 2.0 is available to us via purchasing a license. 

Dirac Unison apparently takes Dirac Live even further with additional algorithms to further optimize speakers playing in a system . Unfortunately as of now only available to automakers.

“Expanding on Dirac Live, Dirac Unison® not only optimizes each speaker’s individual impulse and frequency response, *it actually co-optimizes the impulse and frequency responses of all speakers within the entire sound system.*...

Dirac Unison is Dirac's most advanced sound optimization technology and is available *exclusively through high performance audio and automotive manufacturers.*”

-2014 Press Release: https://www.dirac.com/news/2016/2/11/introducing-dirac-unison-an-entirely-new-approach-to-sound-optimization

My interpretation is that’s its close to the premise of running a Dirac Live Correction (or form of optimization) on top of all individually Dirac Live optimized speakers channels. A house curve that addresses reflections, impulse responses and modal patterns of all the speakers that play together in a system.


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## viking1

Yeah that's annoying.

I wish Dirac would get some competition. You would think this would be a very hot field. Hope they don't get so far ahead that they end up being able to patent everything. Google had the resources to respond quickly enough with iPhone clone that they were able to mimic the most important bits (multi-touch, inertial scrolling, etc) before Apple could patent all their innovations. Hope it's not too late for the same to happen in audio dsp space.

I'm paying hundreds of dollars for Dirac software when if it had any competition I'd probably be paying 20 bucks. I guess the car manufacturers are paying the same and able to block our access to the technology.


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## GreatLaBroski

New C-DSP 8x12 DL manual is available on MiniDSP’s site: https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/C-DSP 8x12 DL User Manual.pdf

Purchase option for the Dirac live plugin upgrade also available: 

https://www.minidsp.com/products/plugins/2x4hd-to-ddrc-24-upgrade-1232-detail


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## naiku

I wonder why you can only use a UMIK-1 with the 8x12DL, I have a Dayton UMM-6, wonder why that cannot be used. The manual says:

"Note that the miniDSP version of Dirac Live Calibration Tool requires a miniDSP UMIK-1 Other microphones cannot be used"

It is only $75 for the UMIK-1, but I would rather just use the UMM-6 that I already have. Of course, this is if I decide to upgrade to the 8x12DL, which I am pretty tempted to try and pick up at some point.


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## Bnlcmbcar

Peep page 35. While they are talking about doing a differential rear fill, I like that they directly addressed how the Dirac Live calibration behaves with Gain/Delay/EQ adjustments done on the mixer side:

However, there is some interaction with Dirac Live. When performing a Dirac Live calibration, Dirac Live will attempt to compensate for the delays on the rear output channels. The high pass and low pass filters will also make calibration more difficult. Therefore, you will need to follow this procedure each time you run a calibration:

1. Turn off high pass and low pass filters on the rear output channels.
2. Zero the delays on the rear output channels.
3. Run the Dirac Live calibration.
4. Set the delay and filters on the rear output channels again. Experiment to find out what sounds best.


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## naiku

Upgraded mine to the 8x12DL the other day, found a bug with it that MiniDSP already fixed. Just finished up taking a set of measurements, trying to determine the best options for microphone placement. With Dirac switched on, I get better stage height and an improved center, but I also lose some of the width that I had with Dirac off. 

Still learning my way around it at the moment.


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