# Best 3" midrange for A-Pillar install?



## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi all,

Someday I will want to try a fully active system with a mid/tweet in an A-pillar custom mount. So... I will want to crossover ideally at 300Hz with a 36 or 48db/octave highpass slope but can settle for a 500Hz 48db/octave slope. I will need to select a mid that can output quality sound near-field. I've noticed some mids sound better at a bit of a distance but when you put them up close they can sound tinny/shallow and lack a certain 'rich' depth that I like.

I wish I could transfer my 6.5's to my A-pillar but that's just ridiculous looking. I've had my eye on a Tang Band 3" textile dome midrange which I think would match the sonic character of my Infintiy Ref silk dome tweet. What would be decent candidates? Here is a picture of what my A-pillar looks like:


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## basher8621 (Feb 21, 2009)

What is your budget?


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

basher8621 said:


> What is your budget?


Up to $300 to $400 (preferably less) for a pair of mids. I figure anything above that price range is likely diminishing returns or a ripoff.


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## basher8621 (Feb 21, 2009)

Some good mid ranges to look at would be the Hybrid L3 a Morel CDM-54 or 88 that is a little smaller than a 3" and is a dome speaker. Dynaudio also has a dome mid range. But the best thing to do is to try and listen to some speakers if possible and see of you like them.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

If I were to use a 3" in the A-Pillar I would use a Hybrid Audio.

They've proven themselves in that capacity.

I will _*never*_ give up the dynamics and volume capabilities of a 6.5" midrange.....I'm just too use to it.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

tspence73 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Someday I will want to try a fully active system with a mid/tweet in an A-pillar custom mount. So... I will want to crossover ideally at 300Hz with a 36 or 48db/octave highpass slope but can settle for a 500Hz 48db/octave slope. I will need to select a mid that can output quality sound near-field. I've noticed some mids sound better at a bit of a distance but when you put them up close they can sound tinny/shallow and lack a certain 'rich' depth that I like.
> 
> I wish I could transfer my 6.5's to my A-pillar but that's just ridiculous looking. I've had my eye on a Tang Band 3" textile dome midrange which I think would match the sonic character of my Infintiy Ref silk dome tweet. What would be decent candidates? Here is a picture of what my A-pillar looks like:



A couple things.

1. When is ‘someday’? Next week, or 3 months? If the latter then I don’t really see the point in picking one right now. Maybe narrowing down a few.

2.	You’re already picking your x-over points without knowing the driver. This can be alright, but I don’t think its wise. Why would you try to limit yourself before getting started?

3.	Furthermore, why would you want to cross a midrange at 300hz or even 500hz? Midranges carry the midrange… I wouldn’t want to split that up if I could avoid it. Maybe 300hz… but definitely not higher. I think if it can’t play well to 250hz then you should look at something else. IMO, of course. I prefer to cover as much of the midrange as possible with a single driver. 

4.	6.5’s in the pillar is silly, to me, too. 

5.	Why do you think the tang band would match the tonality (I’m assuming sonic character = tonality) of your infinities? Have you heard them? I wouldn’t assume anything like that until you’ve heard them. I’ve only had a handful of midrange drivers but they all varied drastically. 

6.	Do you think you’d prefer on-axis install or off-axis? This question is pretty much in stark contrast to my #2 above, but it’s something to consider since they are closely related and I have a feeling you’ll ignore my #2.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


> A couple things.
> 
> 1. When is ‘someday’? Next week, or 3 months? If the latter then I don’t really see the point in picking one right now. Maybe narrowing down a few.


It won't be for many months. Maybe a year. But it never hurts to research long in advance. 



> 2.	You’re already picking your x-over points without knowing the driver. This can be alright, but I don’t think its wise. Why would you try to limit yourself before getting started?


I'm hoping for the MS-8 processor but if it doesn't come out, I'll look into ones that give ultra-steep slopes on their crossovers. I think that the key to high passing the mids at 300-500Hz will be a VERY steep slope.



> 3.	Furthermore, why would you want to cross a midrange at 300hz or even 500hz? Midranges carry the midrange… I wouldn’t want to split that up if I could avoid it. Maybe 300hz… but definitely not higher. I think if it can’t play well to 250hz then you should look at something else. IMO, of course. I prefer to cover as much of the midrange as possible with a single driver.


The A-pillar is the best place for on-axis dispersion and gives the best chance for perfect imaging. The only problem is that the size restrictions of the drivers limit how low I can get the driver to play. Hence, the idea for a steep slope crossover to allow the mid to get as low as possible and to choke off as much midrange from the door midbass driver and keep as much of the image up high as possible.



> 4.	6.5’s in the pillar is silly, to me, too.


Yeah, ridiculous is more like it. 



> 5.	Why do you think the tang band would match the tonality (I’m assuming sonic character = tonality) of your infinities? Have you heard them? I wouldn’t assume anything like that until you’ve heard them. I’ve only had a handful of midrange drivers but they all varied drastically.


I'm only assuming that because both are a fabric-based dome type driver with similar design. I'm assuming because that's all I can do. I can't hear the driver until it's installed and played back. I'm just making an educated guess. It's not by any means a guaranteed match but I think has a shot of being right.



> 6.	Do you think you’d prefer on-axis install or off-axis? This question is pretty much in stark contrast to my #2 above, but it’s something to consider since they are closely related and I have a feeling you’ll ignore my #2.


On axis. That would be the point of moving them up to the A-pillar. To get a higher image and unobstructed dispersion of the sound. Right now I think the sound in my vehicle is fantastic but I still wonder what it could sound like with more tinkering. I always planned on buying a high-end digital sound processor anyway. I figure once I pull that trigger I might as well take it to the next level. So, I just wanted to start looking into the possibilities of the A-pillar route.


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## falkenbd (Aug 16, 2008)

do you form these opinions and ideas on your own or spit stuff out that you heard somewhere???

i mean why in the world would you all of a sudden know that you want to cross your mids at 48 db/oct when you haven't even heard the mids you are getting, or know which ones. What makes you think that would sound the best? 

There are tons of threads on midranges here, start reading them.


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## Andy Jones (May 12, 2006)

Welcome to The Autophile! The point source driver offered by the Autophile should also be considered.

It won't play down to 250hz like bikinpunk is suggesting, but it (nor other any other midrange driver) isn't required to in a properly set up system. 

I would give it a look. Price might be more than you are looking at, but it is one helluva driver.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Andy Jones said:


> Welcome to The Autophile! The point source driver offered by the Autophile should also be considered.
> 
> It won't play down to 250hz like bikinpunk is suggesting, but it (nor other any other midrange driver) isn't required to in a properly set up system.
> 
> I would give it a look. Price might be more than you are looking at, but it is one helluva driver.


That does look pretty sweet, Andy. 

250hz is kind of just what seems to work in my car in the past. I just can't avoid getting the 'pull' of the midbasses if I go any higher than that. I agree with you completely, it's all based on install. Most people can make anything work if they want. I just seem to have found what doesn't work well for me.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

As someone had suggested earlier, a *true* 3" cone midrange driver, that can play easily to sub 200 Hz: http://hybrid-audio.com/Legatia L3.pdf and easily fits into your budget.

Scott


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## SQplease (Jul 23, 2008)

If you are going to go three way active, I would use the morel cdm88, that transition well with silk tweets, and will go as low as 450hz no problem all the way to 7000, but I stop mine at 2500, just because I have great tweets, but this is one option


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Andy Jones said:


> Welcome to The Autophile! The point source driver offered by the Autophile should also be considered.
> 
> It won't play down to 250hz like bikinpunk is suggesting, but it (nor other any other midrange driver) isn't required to in a properly set up system.
> 
> I would give it a look. Price might be more than you are looking at, but it is one helluva driver.


what he said. Ive been using them for over a year and absolutely love them.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

Andy Jones said:


> Welcome to The Autophile! The point source driver offered by the Autophile should also be considered.
> 
> It won't play down to 250hz like bikinpunk is suggesting, but it (nor other any other midrange driver) isn't required to in a properly set up system.
> 
> I would give it a look. Price might be more than you are looking at, but it is one helluva driver.


Suggested Retail Price: $1,599.00

Is that for one Mid Bass Driver?


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

Mic10is said:


> what he said. Ive been using them for over a year and absolutely love them.


Those look nice. Whats the street price on those. 1600 MSRP is STEEP


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## Miska (Jul 25, 2007)

Better have a set of wet lips on the front for $1600.00

Sorry I thought it was just for the mids 

Its still steep even for a 3-way setup


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

Miska said:


> Better have a set of wet lips on the front for $1600.00


I paid small fortune for mine and they still won't put out. :lips:


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## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

The 3-way system sell for $1600 including the midbass drivers.
Our 3" coincident source driver sell for $800 per pair.




michaelsil1 said:


> Suggested Retail Price: $1,599.00
> 
> Is that for one Mid Bass Driver?


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

autofile said:


> The 3-way system sell for $1600 including the midbass drivers.
> Our 3" coincident source driver sell for $800 per pair.


That must be one hell of a Mid Range Driver.

Are there any specs available?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

michaelsil1 said:


> That must be one hell of a Mid Range Driver.
> 
> Are there any specs available?


and tweeter


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## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

No, I am afraid that it is not.

It IS one hell of a coincident source driver however!

I can email a spec sheet to you if you will email me privately at: [email protected]



michaelsil1 said:


> That must be one hell of a Mid Range Driver.
> 
> Are there any specs available?


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## CGG318 (Apr 9, 2007)

Miska said:


> Better have a set of wet lips on the front for $1600.00
> 
> Sorry I thought it was just for the mids
> 
> Its still steep even for a 3-way setup





michaelsil1 said:


> I paid small fortune for mine and they still won't put out. :lips:


It's a $60 upgrade. LINK


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

autofile said:


> I can email a spec sheet to you if you will email me privately at: [email protected]


Peter, I'd be interested in specs just for my own knowledge if you don't mind. Email is
hardisj (at) gmail (dot) com.

Thanks


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

CGG318 said:


> It's a $60 upgrade. LINK


The question now is how do I mount it?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

What about:

Parts Express:HiVi B3S 3" Shielded Aluminum Driver Square Frame










Hi-Vi Trinity6, 3-Way Ribbon Coaxial Full-Frequency from Madisound












Something like that?

The trinity's are something special, I think. Definitely worth considering.


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## RMF419 (Feb 13, 2008)

I am also looking for a 3 inch midrange, I think the Tang Band will be my next attempt. I tried the 2'' Peerless and was not happy with it. I am using the 6x9 Tang Band for Subs.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Spence, you do know that there was a 3" forum boner here for almost a year right? Why bring it up like it's a new topic when you can have better and more info. with a simple search?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

RMF419 said:


> I am also looking for a 3 inch midrange, I think the Tang Band will be my next attempt. I tried the 2'' Peerless and was not happy with it. I am using the 6x9 Tang Band for Subs.


It didn't work in that sail panel? That sucks, you could not ask for a nicer panel then that one. A slight angled to it, large, and with a grill........nice. Did you try venting it into the door panel through the top?


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

HAT L3 or Peeless 830986

or 

Send a little more and look at the Focal 3w2, but I think it may need an enclosure (focal experts)

or if you have the funds

The Autofile unit.


But of all of them the L3 is designed and has proven itself in application. The 830986 does work well also. And there is a Red VW to kicks some but with 3w2 used in this matter.

And the Autofile unit has gotten rave reviews.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

RMF419 said:


> I am also looking for a 3 inch midrange, I think the Tang Band will be my next attempt. I tried the 2'' Peerless and was not happy with it. I am using the 6x9 Tang Band for Subs.



I have work with the 2" and it is not the 3" peerless 830986, for some reason the drivers are just very different animals. The 3" was just a superior driver and very shape and form, Clear, faster, more detailed and more dynamic. Not that the 2" a bad driver it just does not compare to the 3".


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## Andy Jones (May 12, 2006)

^I've done quite well with the autophile driver in competition. Top 8 at Tulsa Invitational round and Top 5 at Scrapin' The Coast for money rounds come to mind immediately.


I also did quite well with the Hybrid L3 in competition. MECA world championship. 



The beauty of both those drivers is that people want them. So you can always buy both of them, listen for yourself, and sell the one you don't like. You shouldn't lose much money at all on the resell, and you will know which one you like.



Audax makes a 3" also---it sucks ass.


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## RMF419 (Feb 13, 2008)

No I do not know how to vent a speaker. I will look at the 3inch Peerless again. I almost pushed the button on that one, but I wanted to make sure it fitted inside the sail speaker. After further review it will fit.


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## TheDavel (Sep 8, 2006)

I know you said you wanted a 3" but focal's slim 4" speakers are very small and fit just about anywhere-

Stock tweeter- Polyglass 4"









Panel on-









All wrapped up


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## Miska (Jul 25, 2007)

Looks like a tacoma door panel. 
What other gear are you running in the doors?


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## mitchyz250f (May 14, 2005)

I just ran the L3 and 3" Peerless specs in UniBox. 

L3 
XO @ 200 Hz is 98db w/ 30 watts
XO @ 300 Hz 104db w/ 100 watts

Peerless 3"
XO @ 200 Hz max is 96db w/ 20 watts
XO @ 300 Hz 104db w/ 100 watts

Not saying one doesn't sound better or much better than the other, but I think the point is there are no magic 3 inch 'woofers'.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

benefit of the Audiophile Theil based driver--you do not need a tweeter. it will play 300-20khz
can you say single point source?


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## jsketoe (Aug 8, 2008)

HAT L3 with a pair lf L1v2...bang for the buck vs the competition IMO...expecially in a pillar. You 'could' run a L3 on axis really high...tweeters become effects only. All of your important imaging cues coming from one driver.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Mic10is said:


> benefit of the Audiophile Theil based driver--you do not need a tweeter. it will play 300-20khz
> can you say single point source?


Are you talking about the "Autofile" PS 16 speakers that were linked up earlier?


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

Mic10is said:


> benefit of the Audiophile Theil based driver--you do not need a tweeter. it will play 300-20khz
> can you say single point source?


So will the Hybrid L3's. Maybe not to 20k, but close (although they will play lower than 300hz). The L4's will do it no problem.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

Why do these hi-end drivers have to cost so much? Especially the mids. Aren't they just the same materials as the cheap DIY drivers? That HiVal 3-way uni-driver looks interesting as hell but I read a review that said the tweeter doesn't have very good response. It's a ring tweet, so that's kinda weird that it would be the worst part of the unidriver.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

12v Electronics said:


> So will the Hybrid L3's. Maybe not to 20k, but close (although they will play lower than 300hz). The L4's will do it no problem.


Off axis as well?


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

12v Electronics said:


> So will the Hybrid L3's. Maybe not to 20k, but close (although they will play lower than 300hz). The L4's will do it no problem.



Man let me tell you, the HAT L4 and Hiquphon OWII-fs combo I'm playing with now sounds outstanding, really loving it. I now see what people are saying about the difference in the L4 and the L3 and man if the new L3v2 is anything like the L4, but in a smaller package, it will be hard to top in the world of the 3" wide/fullrange drivers. looing forwand to this driver.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Off axis as well?


Of course not. Sounds terrible compared to a tweeter IME,IMHO. Plus, where does a 3" beam....like 5khz, right?

All this talk about _could _doesn't always carry over to _will_.

But I have a feeling everyone that's replied in this tread is about to get Tspenced, so what's the point in understanding and sense, anyway.


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## Donitsi (Jan 24, 2007)

Hi, I'm new here... well have not written really anything in ages, but I have Focal 3W2be's in a-pillars. They have maybe 0,5 liters enclosure stuffed with a handful of wool inside. Crossover settings are at the moment, hipass 315hz -12db/oct lopass 5khz -12db/oct

I love the sound. It's easy, natural, breathy. With DLS Nobelium 1 tweeter it's the best part in my current system. I'd like to try the Hybrid Audio L3 how it sounds but at the moment I'm building the setup to my new car with the Focal 3W2be.


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