# Tang Band W3-1364SA Bamboo/paper 3" full range driver



## captainobvious

Disclaimer: This review is completely subjective, and will have no real data supporting any outlandish claims that may or may not be contained herewithin. These are just my initial impressions after connecting and listening to the drivers. Your results may vary. That being said, on with the review! 

*This review is for the Tang Band W3-1364SA 3" mid/full range driver.*


The W3-1364SA is a 3" mid/fullrange driver from Tang Band that has a rather unique cone material made of paper and bamboo fibers. It also has a small neo motor with copper ring, steel basket, rubber surround and machined aluminum phase plug. Overall, the build quality is excellent and the driver is very attractive. (see pics below and let me know if you agree  )


Testing Environment:
The drivers were installed into PVC test enclosures (appx 0.75 liter volume)which were sealed and placed on the dash of my 2003 Lancer aimed on axis to my drivers seat position, slightly lower than ear level. They were placed as close to the edges of the dash (A-Pillars) as possible to simulate the prospective mounting locations.


Testing Equipment:
The W3's were powered by an Xtant 404m amplifier, bridged down to 2 channels, providing appx 100 watts @ 8ohms per driver. A second Xtant 
404m amplifier was bridged to 2 channels providing 100 watts @ 8ohms per driver to a pair of Peerless SLS 8" midbasses which were installed in the doors. Gains were adjusted for L/R to provide audibly equal output from the drivers position. Signal and processing duties are handled by a Clarion DRZ-9255 source unit. The DRZ output gains for the W4's and SLS drivers were adjusted by ear to match levels appropriately. Time alignment was used as well. Further tuning could be done in addition to really dial in this setup, however, since these are test enclosures (not permanently mounted) I wanted to just get a feel for how the drivers would be able to perform.


Testing Material: 
Various discs and tracks were used including the Focal "The Speed of Sound" Demo cd and other Focal reference cd's. (Search for "Focal Demo Discs" on the site...)

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Here is a link to the pdf data sheet on the W3-1364SA:
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-844.pdf

Also, you can find this driver listed in Zaphs small driver tests which will give you some good info/graphs for harmonic distortion and FR.
Zaph|Audio
*Be sure to click on the correct driver link for the W3-1364SA for the graphs you wish to view.*


*Pics:*


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## captainobvious

W3 crossover settings: HPF 315hz -18db, LPF THROUGH
SLS crossover settings: HPF 50hz -18db, LPF 250hz -12db


Focal Reference disc one

"Spanish Harlem"- Very transparent and detailed. This track sounded very realistic to me. The guitar at left stage was full and clear, percussion at right stage (wood stick?) had a nice crack.

"Requiem Dies Irae"- An orchestral track. The W3's stayed very composed (no pun intended) and combined with the SLS had some real impact on the thunderous drum hits.They stayed clear and detailed on soft passaged as well as the high energy sections. Very good staging of the horns at 2:30 and on. Nice !

"La Donna E Mobile" and "Flute Concerto in D"- Equally well played on this orchestral track with the bells chiming brightly and stringed instruments sounding vibrant. The flute was airy and delicate in the concerto and the cello/bass had great tone and texture.

"Improvisation"- excellent transition between W3 and SLS midbasses. The toms were tight and resonant, kick drum had good punch and the various rides, crash and hi-hats sounded true. Awesome.


Spirit of Sound reference disc

"Dick Tracy"- Clarinet(?) sounded really nice and was locked dead center. The piano sounded jazzy as did the guitar- nice and warm, yet detailed.

"Everything Must Change"- Very natural and powerful vocals. Yes, its confirmed- she clearly breathes into the mic at the 4:01 mark. I had noticed this in demo'ing the W4-1757SB as well.

I listened to many of the other tracks on this disc as well. I didnt write notes on them mainly because things were staying pretty consistent, ie excellent.

These drivers sounded great on a variety of genres, including artists like Green Day, Busta Rhymes, Silver Chair, etc.


Overall Impressions:
The W3-1364SA is a fantastic mid/full range driver. If you prefer the warmer sound of a paper cone but want good detail and upper end extension, all in a small package, these are the "stuff". They sounded very natural to me with no exaggerated brightness or bloated lower midrange. These are my new "favorite" fullranger from the testing thus far. With a small neo motor and narrow mounting depth, they open up install possibilities, just like the Fountek FR88. For the price, you really get alot of bang for your buck here. If I had to list weaknesses, I would say that the 0.5mm xmax and low power handling could limit you output wise depending on your installation and your listening habits. Of course with a proper enclosure and sensible crossover points, this shouldnt be too big a problem.


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## Mr B

Hmmm... very interesting...

Damn, so many speakers I want to play with now!


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## captainobvious

Mr B said:


> Hmmm... very interesting...
> 
> Damn, so many speakers I want to play with now!


Well, at about $25 a pop, they are well worth the price to experiment with. Excellent drivers.


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## slade1274

Damn you Steve..... don't make me go out and place another speaker order!


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## OSN

slade1274 said:


> Damn you Steve..... don't make me go out and place another speaker order!


Better hurry before everyone else catches on. They are the best sounding speakers I have heard in person. We listened to Norah Jones live at the House of Blues, and you could hear noises in the background that I have never heard before, and I've listened to that album dozens and dozens of times of a very detailed set of towers. Very, very realistic. I normally like things on the bright side, these are not bright and I love them. I'm listening to the W4s off my home setup and they are clearly brighter, about as detailed, and prolly better candidates for off-axis. Both are just amazing from ~300 and up.


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## 240sxguy

Woo buddy! I am stoked, think these would do nicely in a 2 way containing a 7 or 8" driver?

Thanks!


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## slade1274

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> ... I normally like things on the bright side, these are not bright and I love them.


Have you checked out the Founteks? I DON'T like bright, so just wondering how they compare. I have some FR88s that I haven't played with yet......


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## captainobvious

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> Better hurry before everyone else catches on. They are the best sounding speakers I have heard in person. We listened to Norah Jones live at the House of Blues, and you could hear noises in the background that I have never heard before, and I've listened to that album dozens and dozens of times of a very detailed set of towers. Very, very realistic. I normally like things on the bright side, these are not bright and I love them. I'm listening to the W4s off my home setup and they are clearly brighter, about as detailed, and prolly better candidates for off-axis. Both are just amazing from ~300 and up.


You know, I was actually going to txt you and tell you to try that (connect up to the home rig) but I fell asleep 

High praise for both, I like it ! Which do you prefer? How about a brief description of each from your perspective and anything else you can add...?


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## captainobvious

240sxguy said:


> Woo buddy! I am stoked, think these would do nicely in a 2 way containing a 7 or 8" driver?
> 
> Thanks!


Well, my review was based on a 2-way really... the W3 playing from 315hz and up, and the 8" SLS midbass playing 250hz down to 50hz. 

And yes, it definitely works well and sounds great.


-Steve


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## captainobvious

slade1274 said:


> Have you checked out the Founteks? I DON'T like bright, so just wondering how they compare. I have some FR88s that I haven't played with yet......


If I may...
The Fountek FR88's are also very detailed, clear and low distortion drivers. But they do have a touch of that "aluminum cone sound". They have a slightly bright top end (easily smoothed with EQ, or rolled off with proper crossover. I preferred LPF 20k -12db)

The W3's have more of the "paper cone sound". More natural and organic sounding, a little softer around the edges, yet it remained very detailed and accurate. The cones are a little stiffer than a typical paper with the bamboo fiber integrated and perhaps that along with the phase plug helps to make the top end so pleasing.

Both are fantastic drivers. I guess it would come down to your sonic preference. If you dont like bright, I would recommend the W3.

(PS- I'll be shipping your drivers back to you by the end of this week. Thanks again Slade !)


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## dbiegel

Thanks for the review. How's the off axis compared to the FR88EX? I'd love to hear any thoughts on either of these two drivers running at say 30 or 45 degrees off axis.


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## OSN

captainobvious said:


> You know, I was actually going to txt you and tell you to try that (connect up to the home rig) but I fell asleep
> 
> High praise for both, I like it ! Which do you prefer? How about a brief description of each from your perspective and anything else you can add...?


The W3s on-axis in your car were the real deal. We didn't have enough time, but I would like to hear them off-axis. I suspect they would sound a little dim off-axis. Since I can't do on-axis easily with my car, I suspect they wouldn't slam dunk the way they do in your car.

The W4s I've only heard on the home setup, off an Integra receiver @120 w @ 6ohm, and they stayed very composed down to about 150 Hz. As I walked around the room, there was a little loss in high-end output, but enough that you're losing the essence of the music. I will try them out tomorrow in the car on and off axis, ~75w per @ 6ohm off a Zapco Reference DC 350.2 HP'd at 300, with time alignment and flattened eq. 

I will reserve my decision on which one to get until I hear these in car tomorrow....but it's going to be one of these.


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## slade1274

Well, enough said.... pulled the trigger on a pair of the W3 as well.....


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## captainobvious

dbiegel said:


> Thanks for the review. How's the off axis compared to the FR88EX? I'd love to hear any thoughts on either of these two drivers running at say 30 or 45 degrees off axis.





OldSchoolNewbie said:


> The W3s on-axis in your car were the real deal. We didn't have enough time, but I would like to hear them off-axis. I suspect they would sound a little dim off-axis. Since I can't do on-axis easily with my car, I suspect they wouldn't slam dunk the way they do in your car.
> 
> The W4s I've only heard on the home setup, off an Integra receiver @120 w @ 6ohm, and they stayed very composed down to about 150 Hz. As I walked around the room, there was a little loss in high-end output, but enough that you're losing the essence of the music. I will try them out tomorrow in the car on and off axis, ~75w per @ 6ohm off a Zapco Reference DC 350.2 HP'd at 300, with time alignment and flattened eq.
> 
> I will reserve my decision on which one to get until I hear these in car tomorrow....but it's going to be one of these.


Yeah, I think with the smaller cabin and increased volume and reflection in the car, you'll notice a bit more full sounding top end with the W4's off-axis Dennis. Let me know how it goes.

dbiegel- I also tried the W3 off axis in the vehicle, up to the point of them firing across at each other on the dash. They lose a little top end detail in this position, but at 30, even 60 degrees its not too bad. You can always add a touch of EQ on them to compensate if needed.


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## captainobvious

slade1274 said:


> Well, enough said.... pulled the trigger on a pair of the W3 as well.....


Awesome. Since you havent heard the FR88's yet, you should demo those guys back to back. With your preferences though, I think you'll like the W3 more.


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## slade1274

I'm actually thinking of doing somehting crazy along the lines of a speaker selector switch, a nice floor standing IB aray panel and a the home receiver so I can do 1-2-3-4 selector one after the other to gauge tonality preference. But projects are like food; my eyes are always bigger than my stomach.


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## captainobvious

slade1274 said:


> I'm actually thinking of doing somehting crazy along the lines of a speaker selector switch, a nice floor standing IB aray panel and a the home receiver so I can do 1-2-3-4 selector one after the other to gauge tonality preference. But projects are like food; my eyes are always bigger than my stomach.


Sounds like fun


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## Boostedrex

slade1274 said:


> Well, enough said.... pulled the trigger on a pair of the W3 as well.....


G.A.S. enough said...

Steve,

The 2nd order HD on the W3's looks to be through the roof down low. How low were you able to cross them over and still have them sound clean? Thanks for buying up all these drivers and doing the testing for all of us by the way. 

Zach


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## RyanM923

Do you have any pics of when they wer installed?


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## slade1274

The question wasn't _if_ Zach was going to find this thread and haze me, but _when_

I'm also intrigued by these little full rangers to do something creative and get the damn Klipsh speakers out of the family room. Love them, but they need to be put in the closet till the next house and another HT room can be established.


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## captainobvious

Boostedrex said:


> G.A.S. enough said...
> 
> Steve,
> 
> The 2nd order HD on the W3's looks to be through the roof down low. How low were you able to cross them over and still have them sound clean? Thanks for buying up all these drivers and doing the testing for all of us by the way.
> 
> Zach


I tried them at 315hz at -18db and they sounded very good. Looking at the rising distortion below 300hz, I probably wouldnt recommend crossing them over lower than that, and honestly with a competent midbass, you shouldnt need to anyway. If your midbasses are capable of playing a little higher, even better. To my ears, they sounded extremely clean


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## captainobvious

RyanM923 said:


> Do you have any pics of when they wer installed?


Sorry Ryan, no pics of them installed and on the dash. However, check out the review I did of the Fountek FR88's. They were in the same size enclosure in a similar fashion as you'll see in those pics.


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## norcalsfinest

FR88's are a month out... Might have to go with these in the mean time and see how i like them... Worst case i could always return the FR88's when they arrive. Thanks for the repeatedly awesome reviews man. I've been toying with the idea of a 3" Fullrange/8 inch midbass combo for ages, and right as I'm about to jump into it, you come along with all of this info making me feel a lot better about being different. 

In fact, I was joking with a buddy the other day about how all the speakers in my install are going to be supersized.

Instead of a typical 1"/6.5-7"/12" setup, I'm going 3"/8"/15"


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## norcalsfinest

FR88's are a month out... Might have to go with these in the mean time and see how i like them... Worst case i could always return the FR88's when they arrive. Thanks for the repeatedly awesome reviews man. I've been toying with the idea of a 3" Fullrange/8 inch midbass combo for ages, and right as I'm about to jump into it, you come along with all of this info making me feel a lot better about being different. 

In fact, I was joking with a buddy the other day about how all the speakers in my install are going to be supersized.

Instead of a typical 1"/6.5-7"/12" setup, I'm going 3"/8"/15"


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## captainobvious

norcalsfinest said:


> FR88's are a month out... Might have to go with these in the mean time and see how i like them... Worst case i could always return the FR88's when they arrive. Thanks for the repeatedly awesome reviews man. I've been toying with the idea of a 3" Fullrange/8 inch midbass combo for ages, and right as I'm about to jump into it, you come along with all of this info making me feel a lot better about being different.
> 
> In fact, I was joking with a buddy the other day about how all the speakers in my install are going to be supersized.
> 
> Instead of a typical 1"/6.5-7"/12" setup, I'm going 3"/8"/15"


Depending on the type of sound you like from your speakers, you may enjoy this one more anyways. I like it better than the FR88. Your combo 3"/8"/15" is exactly what I will be running as well. Nothing wrong with being "different", thats how we learn for ourselves if these kind of things will work well for us. 

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by that setup.

On a side note...am I the only one that never had a problem with the auto dupe? Are you guys double clicking the button or something? Strange.


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## OSN

captainobvious said:


> Depending on the type of sound you like from your speakers, you may enjoy this one more anyways. I like it better than the FR88. Your combo 3"/8"/15" is exactly what I will be running as well. Nothing wrong with being "different", thats how we learn for ourselves if these kind of things will work well for us.
> 
> I think you will be pleasantly surprised by that setup.
> 
> On a side note...am I the only one that never had a problem with the auto dupe? Are you guys double clicking the button or something? Strange.


Never had the double post issue I think. But I digress.....

Cap'n knows already but I've decided on the w3 out of the listening test
with the w3, w4, FR88, L4, and some KEF uni-Q HT drivers. FEK FTW! I gravitate towards bright sounding drivers and these just plain aren't and they made a believer outta me. w4s are right up my alley but I'm done playing in that alley.


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## bassfromspace

Oldschool,

Did u test the w4's off-axis or on?


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## EricP72

thanks for the review captainobvious. but now you have created a problem for me. i remeber when the w3 first came out and i was thinking about these, but based on all the good reviews for the peerless 3", i went that route instead and have been extremely pleased with the sound im getting. the only issue i have is that with the sls ,to my ears dont have that seemless blend that i was expecting. so now i see this review and i cant help but wonder how well the w3's would blend with my sls 8 mid bass. so my question is have you compared the w3 to the peerless 3"? and if so which did you prefer?


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## captainobvious

I havent tried the peerless 3" fullranger for comparison, sorry. What is your crossover point set at currently for the SLS and for the Peerless? 
The W3's really shouldnt be run lower than 300hz due to rising distortion lower than that point. But they still sound damn good up until then. The SLS should be crossed less than 500hz so they still mesh pretty good with the peerless around 250hz/315hz and the W3 taking over on up from there.

The nice thing is that they (W3's) are pretty cheap so its not gonna break the bank to test them out.


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## EricP72

Ok I can't remember my x-over points between the peerless and the sls. But I belive its 250hz @ 12db. Ur right about the price, I might order a pair and conduct a review if anybody else is interested in the results.


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## Mr B

I'm very tempted to pick up one of these and a SLS midbass for the lower frequencies... but would you guys recommend a tweeter for the rest of the range? Or do you guys think just doing the W3 off-axis with the midbass would be fine?

If I go with a tweeter, it'd have to be pretty small to install in my a-pillars.


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## captainobvious

Additional data to add...

EDIT: I should note that these came directly from Tang Band.

*Tang Band W3-1364SA Off Axis Response*









*Tang Band W3-1364SA Harmonic Distortion*


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## RyanM923

You're making me buy these now, you know that right?


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## Mless5

First things first, captainobvious - I truly enjoy reading your reviews! Thanks a lot!

Would you characterize w3 as smooth, warm and laid back at all or am I looking at a wrong speaker here? Any fatigue over time?

Thank you!


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## norcalsfinest

mine will be here thursday


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## lithium

i think i have my peerless 3 down to 250 with a 12db slope and the sls 8 at 200 with a 12 db slope. not 100 percent sure tho, i might have moved the 3 up to 300 and the sls up to 250 or i could have a steeper slope or something.. ill try to remember to check tomorrow


the tangbangs deff have a flatter response out to 20k compared to the peerless 3 when you compare the graphs atleast, but for 10 bucks a speaker not bad..


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## lithium

Mr B said:


> I'm very tempted to pick up one of these and a SLS midbass for the lower frequencies... but would you guys recommend a tweeter for the rest of the range? Or do you guys think just doing the W3 off-axis with the midbass would be fine?
> 
> If I go with a tweeter, it'd have to be pretty small to install in my a-pillars.


where will the 3in be mounted and how much off axis?


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## DATCAT

Thanks for the review.


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## EricP72

lithium said:


> i think i have my peerless 3 down to 250 with a 12db slope and the sls 8 at 200 with a 12 db slope. not 100 percent sure tho, i might have moved the 3 up to 300 and the sls up to 250 or i could have a steeper slope or something.. ill try to remember to check tomorrow
> 
> 
> the tangbangs deff have a flatter response out to 20k compared to the peerless 3 when you compare the graphs atleast, but for 10 bucks a speaker not bad..


i think i'm going to try a pair of these bamboo drivers. but i still think i need to actually have those sls 8" placed in a sealed enclosure. so i'm looking to get some fiberglass pods made for my doors. then if it adds more control to the sls, i think the bamboo driver would really shine.


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## Mr B

lithium said:


> where will the 3in be mounted and how much off axis?


I actually changed my mind as getting it to work in my car would've been a nightmare.


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## captainobvious

Mless5 said:


> First things first, captainobvious - I truly enjoy reading your reviews! Thanks a lot!
> 
> Would you characterize w3 as smooth, warm and laid back at all or am I looking at a wrong speaker here? Any fatigue over time?
> 
> Thank you!


Thanks !

Sorry, I was out on vacation so didnt see the responses here.

I would say the sound is more open and detailed, not laid back. A little warmth, but not dark. As far as fatigue goes, I experienced none. It is very enjoyable to listen to for me. Hope that helps.


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## xtremeDAN

just orderd some peerless 830946, w3's and just incase a set of the tb 25-1719s's


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## norcalsfinest

mine arrived early on tuesday night. very impressed with the build quality. I'll go over them and the rest of my drivers in my upcoming build log.


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## monkeybutt

captainobvious said:


> Well, at about $25 a pop, they are well worth the price to experiment with. Excellent drivers.


Yo Captainobvious, first off thanks for the efforts on the fullrange drivers. You may have avalanched FR movement. I think I've got to experiance this for myself and this looks like a good candidate.

OT - And I noticed your new avatar. Congrats man and well deserved. I've enjoyed and benefited from your thoughtful and even handed comments about many topics not so 'obvious' to me. Well enjoy your new status as a Made Man in the DIYMA mafioso!


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## captainobvious

monkeybutt said:


> Yo Captainobvious, first off thanks for the efforts on the fullrange drivers. You may have avalanched FR movement. I think I've got to experiance this for myself and this looks like a good candidate.
> 
> OT - And I noticed your new avatar. Congrats man and well deserved. I've enjoyed and benefited from your thoughtful and even handed comments about many topics not so 'obvious' to me. Well enjoy your new status as a Made Man in the DIYMA mafioso!



Thanks Monkey. Glad the info has been helpful for you 
As for the Avatar- Im a mod only in my own mind :laugh:


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## monkeybutt

captainobvious said:


> Thanks Monkey. Glad the info has been helpful for you
> As for the Avatar- Im a mod only in my own mind :laugh:


Damn, you mean you aren't! I was gonna ask you to snuff someguys on here... and in return mebbe I would be asked to do a favor for you in the future... Anyway Cap you are at least a Goodfella.


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## RyanM923

captainobvious said:


> Additional data to add...
> 
> EDIT: I should note that these came directly from Tang Band.
> 
> *Tang Band W3-1364SA Off Axis Response*


Looks like it'd be better to have them 30* off axis if you were to run them without a lp filter.


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## captainobvious

monkeybutt said:


> Damn, you mean you aren't! I was gonna ask you to snuff someguys on here... and in return mebbe I would be asked to do a favor for you in the future... Anyway Cap you are at least a Goodfella.


:laugh: :laugh:

Good stuff


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## j27

what would happen if you ran two of them in parallel at 4 ohms? is it possible


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## OSN

bassfromspace said:


> Oldschool,
> 
> Did u test the w4's off-axis or on?



Oops! Just saw this question- on vacation last week.
I tried them off-axis (as that is how they would fit on my
dash) and found that to be ideal in the sense of leveling
off the top end. left side was about 60 degrees off-axis
and right side 30 degrees off-axis. Nice sound for sure.


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## RyanM923

j27 said:


> what would happen if you ran two of them in parallel at 4 ohms? is it possible


That's what I'll be trying soon...what do you mean about it being possible?


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## captainobvious

j27 said:


> what would happen if you ran two of them in parallel at 4 ohms? is it possible


A ripple will be created that could tear the fabric of the universe.



You'll get more output with less power


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## RyanM923

I just got 4 of these in the mail a couple of days ago...beautiful looking speakers. Now I just need some time so I can fab up a couple of MTM's using this Vifa as a supertweeter. I'll also be using some 8" SLS's in my doors, HPing those at 63hz, and using 200hz and 6.3khz as my other two points for the 3-way, using 24db slopes all around. 

Vifa BC25SC06-04 1" Textile Dome Tweeter from Madisound


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## Stoph

Thanks for the Review Capn, Picked up a pair of these and really enjoy them! I only have them wrapped in towels right now as I'm fixing my pillars up with little enclosures  Even wrapped in towels I really love the sound of these drivers. I have them running off my zapco ref 350.2 crossed at 315hz and letting them go fullrange up from that.


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## RyanM923

Stoph said:


> Thanks for the Review Capn, Picked up a pair of these and really enjoy them! I only have them wrapped in towels right now as I'm fixing my pillars up with little enclosures  Even wrapped in towels I really love the sound of these drivers. I have them running off my zapco ref 350.2 crossed at 315hz and letting them go fullrange up from that.


How do you like the top end, and how are they aimed? I'm interested to see if I really need a tweeter or not, and if you do have them on axis, how much EQing is needed to flatten them out.


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## captainobvious

RyanM923 said:


> I just got 4 of these in the mail a couple of days ago...beautiful looking speakers. Now I just need some time so I can fab up a couple of MTM's using this Vifa as a supertweeter. I'll also be using some 8" SLS's in my doors, HPing those at 63hz, and using 200hz and 6.3khz as my other two points for the 3-way, using 24db slopes all around.
> 
> Vifa BC25SC06-04 1" Textile Dome Tweeter from Madisound





Stoph said:


> Thanks for the Review Capn, Picked up a pair of these and really enjoy them! I only have them wrapped in towels right now as I'm fixing my pillars up with little enclosures  Even wrapped in towels I really love the sound of these drivers. I have them running off my zapco ref 350.2 crossed at 315hz and letting them go fullrange up from that.





RyanM923 said:


> How do you like the top end, and how are they aimed? I'm interested to see if I really need a tweeter or not, and if you do have them on axis, how much EQing is needed to flatten them out.



Good stuff guys, hope you enjoy them. Ryan- You will need them on axis if you plan to go tweeterless. The off axis dispersion is pretty narrow. I feel that they do pretty well without a tweeter in the right environment. If you will be using them off axis though, you will want tweeters to fill in the highest octaves.


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## RyanM923

They'll be directly on axis, or very very close to it...like less than 15* off axis. I'll probably go with a tweeter anyways to just keep the TB from having to play so much info.


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## Stoph

I'm running mine on axis without a tweeter and I'm very happy with them! I haven't had to play with the EQ with them at all so far, but they aren't in their permanent homes just yet, I'm still finishing up the a-pillars for them


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## katodevin

Stoph said:


> I'm running mine on axis without a tweeter and I'm very happy with them! I haven't had to play with the EQ with them at all so far, but they aren't in their permanent homes just yet, I'm still finishing up the a-pillars for them


Any updates on these bad boys?  I have some coming in later this week and looking for impressions/advice.


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## captainobvious

katodevin said:


> Any updates on these bad boys? I have some coming in later this week and looking for impressions/advice.


I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. 

Let us know how they sound for you once you get a chance to demo them.


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## Sideways17

I love this site but I hate it too! Once I get ready to go with something I find a THREAD THAT CHANGES MY MIND!!! Ahhhh! These sound like they would fit my high freq taste. I hate the shrill scream of harsh highs and it sounds like these will be a good choice for me. The only thing is my a pillars are very narrow and its gonna be a chore to glass these in my pillars on-axis. Vehicle is a 2002 Ford Explorer. I already planned on running a 7'' midbass in my doors. IDK we'll see! Choices, choices, choices...


----------



## OSN

Sideways17 said:


> I love this site but I hate it too! Once I get ready to go with something I find a THREAD THAT CHANGES MY MIND!!! Ahhhh! These sound like they would fit my high freq taste. I hate the shrill scream of harsh highs and it sounds like these will be a good choice for me. The only thing is my a pillars are very narrow and its gonna be a chore to glass these in my pillars on-axis. Vehicle is a 2002 Ford Explorer. I already planned on running a 7'' midbass in my doors. IDK we'll see! Choices, choices, choices...


It will be tough to get down to midbass frequencies with a driver smaller than a 3". The depth (1.75'') isn't that bad, but talking about pillars, has to be a consideration.


----------



## Sideways17

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> It will be tough to get down to midbass frequencies with a driver smaller than a 3". The depth (1.75'') isn't that bad, but talking about pillars, has to be a consideration.


How would Tangbands perform with a 6.5 or 7'' mid crossed a little higher, say around 1.5k hz. So sub up to 63hz, mid 80hz to 1.5k and have the tangbands take over from there up? This is just an example...


----------



## captainobvious

Sideways17 said:


> How would Tangbands perform with a 6.5 or 7'' mid crossed a little higher, say around 1.5k hz. So sub up to 63hz, mid 80hz to 1.5k and have the tangbands take over from there up? This is just an example...


They should do just fine. Although I prefer to get as much of that midrange area covered by a single driver as possible. You could do the Midbass up to 400-500 and take over from there with the W3 and it should be very good. Plus you'll likely get better midbass performance by reducing the frequency band its playing. You'll get a feel for what sounds best to you in your particular setup by adjusting crossover settings when they are in the vehicle. Sometimes a higher midrange/midbass crossover point can tend to lower the sound stage so you'll notice this and be able to play around a bit when testing to tweak it to your taste.


----------



## j27

what is the max db the driver can play before distorting


----------



## captainobvious

j27 said:


> what is the max db the driver can play before distorting


Its not an spl driver. But it does play plenty loud when on axis up top. If you need more volume, you'll have to raise your crossover settings a bit higher as these only have a 0.5mm xmax. If you listen at moderate to loud volume, they will do just fine. If you blast your music, you may want to consider running two in tandem per side, or planning to run your midbass into the 500hz range so that these wont be strained. Also, at that point you'll really NEED to have these in a sealed enclosure.


----------



## OSN

So I fixed up some temp enclosures to play with these in the car and mess around before I break out the fiberglass. In the mean time, I set them up on my home receiver (Integra DTR-5.4 w/ 85x2 at 8 ohm) HPd at 150 Hz (highest setting allowed).

I played some John Mayer live in LA. The acoustic guitar tracks were crystal clear and smooth as butta. The vocals were palpable. The wife even commented on how full they sounded for being such little guys. I told her the price for them and she just about fell off the couch. Why did you waste a $1000 on those big things then? Sigh. The perils of education- more opportunity for the wife to point out your flaws.  Actually, it's going
to happen either way- nevermind. :laugh:

I will follow up when I get these set up in the car.


----------



## Mless5

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> So I fixed up some temp enclosures to play with these in the car and mess around before I break out the fiberglass. In the mean time, I set them up on my home receiver (Integra DTR-5.4 w/ 85x2 at 8 ohm) HPd at 150 Hz (highest setting allowed).
> 
> I played some John Mayer live in LA. The acoustic guitar tracks were crystal clear and smooth as butta. The vocals were palpable. The wife even commented on how full they sounded for being such little guys. I told her the price for them and she just about fell off the couch. Why did you waste a $1000 on those big things then? Sigh. The perils of education- more opportunity for the wife to point out your flaws.  Actually, it's going
> to happen either way- nevermind. :laugh:
> 
> I will follow up when I get these set up in the car.


So what kind of enclosures do you have for these?


----------



## OSN

Mless5 said:


> So what kind of enclosures do you have for these?


3" PVC 90 degree pipe elbows with a plastic test cap on the back. It is approximately the internal volume I have to work with on my dash (Civic sedan useless side window on top of the dash is about .5L) I will be glassing them to aim on-axis with driver's head.


----------



## Mless5

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> 3" PVC 90 degree pipe elbows with a plastic test cap on the back. It is approximately the internal volume I have to work with on my dash (Civic sedan useless side window on top of the dash is about .5L) I will be glassing them to aim on-axis with driver's head.


Thanks pal! Do you guys know their enclosure requirements in "ideal case scenario"? Say I wanted to cross them 300-500 range with 12db slope...

Thanks!


----------



## Billk1002

I have toyed with the idea of adding a set of mid range drivers. Have you tried them down by the kick panels to see what they sound like, thank you.


----------



## OSN

Mless5 said:


> Thanks pal! Do you guys know their enclosure requirements in "ideal case scenario"? Say I wanted to cross them 300-500 range with 12db slope...
> 
> Thanks!


I ran some t/s enclosure calcs and found that with 0.5 L (~0.02 cf)
the resonant frequency of driver becomes 215 Hz. So I would think
to use this size enclosure if I wanted to cross up towards 500 Hz.
With 1.5 L (~0.05 cf) the resonant frequency becomes 155 Hz.
If you want to get down to 300 Hz, I would even go larger than that.

You also have to weigh the distortion profile and output. The Zaph
review shows that below 350 Hz, the odd order distortion is a little
higher than above. The even order I don't mind as much. 

I guess the plus side of running them lower is to maintain vocal
continuity from one driver, but you'll also lose some output.
Remember- 0.5 mm xmax! I plan to settle in between 350 and 400
but with a 18 db/octave slope. 

The only question I have with my enclosure- I am molding into
the window cubby area, and there is a defrost vent there. No
problem if I cover it, the backpressure will fill the duct and the
air will travel to everywhere else. But what if I wanted to vent
the enclosure into the duct, IB? Would the positive pressure in
the duct while running the defrost change the properties of the
IB enclosure? This is outside the area of my knowledge. :surprised:


----------



## Mless5

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> I ran some t/s enclosure calcs and found that with 0.5 L (~0.02 cf)
> the resonant frequency of driver becomes 215 Hz. So I would think
> to use this size enclosure if I wanted to cross up towards 500 Hz.
> With 1.5 L (~0.05 cf) the resonant frequency becomes 155 Hz.
> If you want to get down to 300 Hz, I would even go larger than that.
> 
> You also have to weigh the distortion profile and output. The Zaph
> review shows that below 350 Hz, the odd order distortion is a little
> higher than above. The even order I don't mind as much.
> 
> I guess the plus side of running them lower is to maintain vocal
> continuity from one driver, but you'll also lose some output.
> Remember- 0.5 mm xmax! I plan to settle in between 350 and 400
> but with a 18 db/octave slope.
> 
> The only question I have with my enclosure- I am molding into
> the window cubby area, and there is a defrost vent there. No
> problem if I cover it, the backpressure will fill the duct and the
> air will travel to everywhere else. But what if I wanted to vent
> the enclosure into the duct, IB? Would the positive pressure in
> the duct while running the defrost change the properties of the
> IB enclosure? This is outside the area of my knowledge. :surprised:



Thanks, can't wait to try them!


----------



## OSN

OK, got some time with these bad boys in the car today. Aimed
the test enclosures on-axis sitting on the dash as close to the
sides as I could get to mimic my future location. I started out
with 315/18 HP, with the Quart mids serving as midbass 125/18
to 250/18. Used the Eclipse deck tuning functions for ease,
as I didn't bring my laptop to re-program the Zapco DC amps.
No gain settings were changed, just testing for tonality really.
I ran these off of a Zapco DC Ref 350.2, ~50x2 at 8 ohm.

BTW, I don't recommend these Quarts as midbass to anyone. :laugh:

Forgive my rudimentary evaluation, I only had about 30 minutes of
my lunch hour to play with. It took all of 45 seconds to get the image
locked in dead center with a little time correction. Listened to some
Rebecca Pidgeon, Norah Jones live, and John Mayer live. To me, these
drivers really shine in the jazz domain. They are just smooth and soft
without losing any of the detail. I pushed the volume a bit to see how
they maintain composure and I was satisfied. They are clearly
less efficient than the Seas Neos that the amps were set up
for, so I ran out of volume knob to push them any further. But
I don't think these are the drivers to keep up with the lows of
a basshead. The Seas Neos are. :blush:

I will eventually run each DC350.2 bridged to each w3 once
I get the Ref 1000.4 installed for the midbass and sub. That
would give me 210 per driver at 8 ohm, OR if I can manage
to fit 2 per side in parallel, 165 per driver. :surprised:

Billk1002, since you asked so nicely, I tried them out in the kicks
for you. Since you asked about midrange only, they seemed
to do ok, highs dropped off considerably and overall suffered in output
because of the limitations of my testing, but I don't think these
would be the best choice for your mids. IMO the best thing about
full-range is simplicity and being able to cover the full vocal range in one driver, and eliminating a lot of phasing issues. There
isn't much excess output to these. Which tweeter would you be
using with these?


----------



## Billk1002

Thanks for the awsome responce, and thanks for taking the time to post your finding's!!!! This is the main reason why I hang and post here.
I have a set of Focal TN47 up on the dash. Iam able to tame them quite well with a Zapco DC Ref 360.4
I'm going to be moving them to the A pillars in a couple of weeks so I will need a new project to start playing with. The thought of having a set of dedicated mids is very appealing.

Would you happen to have any expirience with the HAT L3's ????
It is a nice small driver that I could easily tuck down into my kicks in a simple fiberglass pod, that's the reason I was so interested in the Tang Band.


----------



## OSN

You're welcome!

Have not heard the L3s. L4s- yes, and they are very nice sounding mids. 
To my ears, they are a similar style to the w3s. 

One thing that I really dig about the w3s is the narrow dispersion on the
high end. Having them on-axis is the only way you can get away with
tweeterless, IMO. If you can make it work to get them on-axis though,
the inevitability of reflections probably becomes less of a factor.


----------



## captainobvious

Good stuff OSN, nice update. I pretty much concur with your evaluation of these drivers. On axis, great, off-axis and you need a tweeter in conjunction. They truly are a fantastic value.


----------



## RyanM923

OSN, try running a pair on each side...I have 4 of them sitting in my room and I'm interested to see how they work for you.


----------



## OSN

RyanM923 said:


> OSN, try running a pair on each side...I have 4 of them sitting in my room and I'm interested to see how they work for you.


It's tricky to do with the test enclosures and 1 pair of the drivers. 

I don't know if I have the room to pull off 2 per side, but I will exhaust all
avenues before I eliminate it.


----------



## RyanM923

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> It's tricky to do with the test enclosures and 1 pair of the drivers.
> 
> I don't know if I have the room to pull off 2 per side, but I will exhaust all
> avenues before I eliminate it.


I was reading up on the thread about using a good roundover, or a round enclosure, in order to eliminate refractions from the edges of an enclosure. I was to use a could little sphere-like enclosures on these mids and see how well they work...just can't find the time right now though.


----------



## UCF52

Hey captain, first and foremost let me thank you for posting up all these reviews on the full-range drivers - they have already helped a ton! Kudos for taking the time to do this. 

I have a question. Some time ago I had a similar setup (no tweeter), wide band up on the dash paired with a mid woofer and of course a sub woofer. I was using an 880 for processing and could not drop the crossover point for the wide band below 1.25 khz (or something around there). This was fine with me as I enjoyed the stage (height) that it provided. Well, I have since parted entirely with that set-up and am looking to get back in the swing of things and build a new stereo. I see that you cross your dash mounted full rangers fairly low (compared to what I had mine at) and I am curious how you liked the stage height? I am also interested in the SLS6.5, but am scared to run them for fear I will not like 300hz-^ coming from my dash and would not have the ability to run the SLS's low-pass crossover above 500hz. I guess I could pick a different mid (one that could work up to ~1,000hz), but if I'd be satisfied with the SLS's then there's no need. 

I guess I'm trying to get a better idea of how 300hz-^ on the dash sounds compared to maybe 1,000hz. 

For what it's worth, here's what I have my eye on (in no specific order);

High:
•Tang Band W3-1364SA 3”
•Fountek FR88 3”
•Peerless 830986 3”

Mid:
•Mach 5 MLI 65 6.5”
•Peerless SLS 65 6.5”
•SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-8-UC 6.5”


Excuse the long post, but I wanted to be thorough.


----------



## kizz

I plan on ordering these but i just have one question first. You say that they need to be on axis or as close to on axis as possible to go tweeterless. well, what if i want good sound for both front seats? can i aim them at the opposite listener and still be able to go tweeterless captain?


----------



## Stoph

I have mine aimed that way and I'm tweeterless. I really like the sound of them.


----------



## kizz

cool thanks. btw, your install looks very nice. I like the look of those mids without grills. they are sexy. where did you get your dash mat? i'm looking for one for my stratus but it looks like i will be making one. 

thanks for your input .


----------



## Jroo

I guess this would be a question to Stoph or anyone that has these on their dash. I am looking at a similar set up aimed at across just like Stoph, but will use a tweeter. I have a set of Infinity Kappa ribbons that I finally want to use crossed over very high(minium of 7k but more like 10k). Would I place the tweeter above the mid and aim across the dash or should I try to angle them the same way as the mid? My thought was the mids are angled but the tweet is above playing across to try to raise the stage and add the final bit of high end.


----------



## Jroo

Any thoughts on aiming if you add a tweeter. Would I aim the tweets the same angle as the mid or shoud I just aim the tweet at the other tweet and fire across the dash?


----------



## OSN

Jroo said:


> Any thoughts on aiming if you add a tweeter. Would I aim the tweets the same angle as the mid or shoud I just aim the tweet at the other tweet and fire across the dash?


It depends on the tweeter and its dispersion characteristics, but I would not aim them at each other. The reflections would likely outweigh the direct sound you may get. I'm assuming you are tuning for 2-seat sound? If so, I would aim the tweets so that they meet halfway between driver's and passenger's head and mount them ABOVE the mids and as close to them as possible. May I ask why you would run a tweeter with these, and what frequencies?


----------



## Dr.Telepathy SQ

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> It depends on the tweeter and its dispersion characteristics, but I would not aim them at each other. The reflections would likely outweigh the direct sound you may get. I'm assuming you are tuning for 2-seat sound? If so, I would aim the tweets so that they meet halfway between driver's and passenger's head and mount them ABOVE the mids and as close to them as possible. May I ask why you would run a tweeter with these, and what frequencies?


Agreed. 30-60 degrees off axis(a little eq work though) and directly on axis, you should not need a tweeter, unless you like an ultra bright sound. They have a nice natural roll off around 15K. Most recorded information doesn't have any fq above 15K. This is one of the nicest 3" full range drivers on the market at an awsome price.


----------



## captainobvious

UCF52 said:


> Hey captain, first and foremost let me thank you for posting up all these reviews on the full-range drivers - they have already helped a ton! Kudos for taking the time to do this.
> 
> I have a question. Some time ago I had a similar setup (no tweeter), wide band up on the dash paired with a mid woofer and of course a sub woofer. I was using an 880 for processing and could not drop the crossover point for the wide band below 1.25 khz (or something around there). This was fine with me as I enjoyed the stage (height) that it provided. Well, I have since parted entirely with that set-up and am looking to get back in the swing of things and build a new stereo. I see that you cross your dash mounted full rangers fairly low (compared to what I had mine at) and I am curious how you liked the stage height? I am also interested in the SLS6.5, but am scared to run them for fear I will not like 300hz-^ coming from my dash and would not have the ability to run the SLS's low-pass crossover above 500hz. I guess I could pick a different mid (one that could work up to ~1,000hz), but if I'd be satisfied with the SLS's then there's no need.
> 
> I guess I'm trying to get a better idea of how 300hz-^ on the dash sounds compared to maybe 1,000hz.
> 
> For what it's worth, here's what I have my eye on (in no specific order);
> 
> High:
> •Tang Band W3-1364SA 3”
> •Fountek FR88 3”
> •Peerless 830986 3”
> 
> Mid:
> •Mach 5 MLI 65 6.5”
> •Peerless SLS 65 6.5”
> •SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-8-UC 6.5”
> 
> 
> Excuse the long post, but I wanted to be thorough.



No problem. I personally find it best when you can get as much of the vocal range as possible from a single driver. When you cross higher, you're breaking up that range which can lead to phasing issues. Myself and many others here have tried these and other widebanders on the dash with crossover points anywhere from 200hz and up. I think that when you cross them higher, you end up pulling your soundstage down LOWER. Those midrange frequencies are the most prevalent and I dont want them coming from the kicks in my install because they pull the vocals down lower. Ive had people comment on how high the soundstage is in my car when setup. You ca close your eyes and see the singer literally in the center of the windshield half way up.
From your list, I have experience with a few of the drivers. I would try the SLS6.5 along with the W3 bamboo. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with what your able to get out of that combo. Start off with your mid crossover point around 315-400hz and the midbass around 250hz. Let me know what you think.


----------



## Luke352

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> mount them ABOVE the mids and as close to them as possible. May I ask why you would run a tweeter with these, and what frequencies?


Having heard these drivers well setup without a tweeter and then with, I can say the tweeter definitely helps! For alot of people they would probably be ok without it, but it definitely makes a good improvement. I can also say the system once he installed the tweeters he put them above the mid and actually slightly overhanging the cone, and the coherency was excellent, which just worked wonders for image and focus.


----------



## UCF52

captainobvious said:


> No problem. I personally find it best when you can get as much of the vocal range as possible from a single driver. When you cross higher, you're breaking up that range which can lead to phasing issues. Myself and many others here have tried these and other widebanders on the dash with crossover points anywhere from 200hz and up. I think that when you cross them higher, you end up pulling your soundstage down LOWER. Those midrange frequencies are the most prevalent and I dont want them coming from the kicks in my install because they pull the vocals down lower. Ive had people comment on how high the soundstage is in my car when setup. You ca close your eyes and see the singer literally in the center of the windshield half way up.
> From your list, I have experience with a few of the drivers. I would try the SLS6.5 along with the W3 bamboo. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with what your able to get out of that combo. Start off with your mid crossover point around 315-400hz and the midbass around 250hz. Let me know what you think.


Awesome! Thanks for the detailed reply, just the information I was looking for!

I scooped up a set of the SLS 6.5's earlier today, so the last piece of the puzzle is the wide band. I'm narrowed down to the FR88 and the TB W3. It's pretty much a 50/50 split at this point. They're both cheap enough to try though, so I may do that.


----------



## OSN

UCF52 said:


> Awesome! Thanks for the detailed reply, just the information I was looking for!
> 
> I scooped up a set of the SLS 6.5's earlier today, so the last piece of the puzzle is the wide band. I'm narrowed down to the FR88 and the TB W3. It's pretty much a 50/50 split at this point. They're both cheap enough to try though, so I may do that.


These 2 full-rangers have VERY different styles. The w3 has a warm, laid-back sound and the FR88s are brighter and will likely perform better if you want to play them down to 250 or so- stronger motor. I figured I would like the FR88s better, but I was wrong. For what it's worth.


----------



## UCF52

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> These 2 full-rangers have VERY different styles. The w3 has a warm, laid-back sound and the FR88s are brighter and will likely perform better if you want to play them down to 250 or so- stronger motor. I figured I would like the FR88s better, but I was wrong. For what it's worth.


Interesting. Did you have the FR88's on axis? I was thinking of trying them a bit of axis - I'm not a fan of harsh/bright upper treble (think metal dome tweeter).


----------



## OSN

UCF52 said:


> Interesting. Did you have the FR88's on axis? I was thinking of trying them a bit of axis - I'm not a fan of harsh/bright upper treble (think metal dome tweeter).


Well the FR88s do sound like metal domes a bit, and understandably so with the cone material. We tried on- and off-axis, off-axis seemed to tame the brightness a bit, but the sound characteristic didn't change.


----------



## UCF52

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> Well the FR88s do sound like metal domes a bit, and understandably so with the cone material. We tried on- and off-axis, off-axis seemed to tame the brightness a bit, but the sound characteristic didn't change.


Good info, thanks for the responses. I think I'm going to try the W3's first and set them up in temp enclosures to play around with them and see how I like them and go from there. The Founteks caught my after Zaphs high praise for them, but if I had to guess I'd say the W3's are more suitable for me on paper.


----------



## OSN

UCF52 said:


> Good info, thanks for the responses. I think I'm going to try the W3's first and set them up in temp enclosures to play around with them and see how I like them and go from there. The Founteks caught my after Zaphs high praise for them, but if I had to guess I'd say the W3's are more suitable for me on paper.


It's a small investment for drivers. If it's not for you, no huge loss. But I think you will be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## gdean83

I was wondering what kind of output do the W3's have? They will be getting 50 or so watts. Im looking at doing a 3-way with the SLS running midbass in a crew cab truck. Want to make sure those little guys can fill the whole cab with sound and still sound good.


----------



## RyanM923

I'm selling mine if anyone is interested. I have two pairs, never used...going a different direction with my setup.


----------



## DATCAT

How much for both pair


----------



## j_blackman

captainobvious said:


> Also, at that point you'll really NEED to have these in a sealed enclosure.


What size of enclosure would you suggest?


----------



## UCF52

Well, I got the W3's in their temporary dash pods (.02 ft^3) and the SLS 6.5's in the doors. 

W3 HPF: 400hz @ 18db/oct
SLS LPF: 315hz @ 18db/oct

I've only been able to get very elementary tuning done, not enough seat time yet as I am traveling. I am VERY impressed with the combo though! As suggested above, I have noticed that the W3's really do need to be on-axis to run tweeterless (though I haven't had the time to touch the EQ, so that could certainly change things). 

Just wanted to toss up a quick update and confirm all of the above information about the W3's. Great driver! Thanks to those who have contributed to this thread!

I'll get some more feedback when I get some more time to play with them.


----------



## boy.kroy

TB W3-1364SA vs FR88EX, which one has better low frequency extension or low frequency efficiency? This would be the deciding factor for me.


----------



## Hernan

I have been tempted by this thread and bought a pair of W3s.

I made some testing spherical enclosures (16cm diameter plastic balls and 1lb of NHMC covering the inner walls). They end with 0,5lts aprox.

I made some measurements at home, before installing them in the car, on axis at the dash.

The nearfield measurements were nice. A little peak near 200hz (seems that they ask for a bigger enclosure), not a big deal because I plan to use them to play higher. From 400 and up they are near ruler flat.

The no so nice part is that their of axis responds drops like a stone. Not a surprise, just like a 3 cone.

At the car they sounds very nice. I should not use them lower than 400 with a steep slope, I use 450/24. At 300 they distort too much at moderate volume.

I came from the RS52s domes. The TangBangs are much more usable at the car. I haven't even touch the EQ. I should define them as easy sounding, relaxed.

After two days using them tweeterless, I add a pair of tw that I get at the same time, Daytons plannars PT2**... I miss a pair of Emmit plannars I had years ago...

**(I will made a review about these when I have a bit more experience with them)

The difference is HUGE. Everything is nicer. Image is bigger, more stable, more subtle, the sense of space and ambience is back.

The W3 could be used without a tw for practical reasons. They have extended upper FR on axis but they not have good polar response above 5-6K.

Very nice little driver! At the price range, difficult to beat.

Note: they get loud and have good impact too (DLS amp [email protected]).


----------



## katodevin

Hernan said:


> I made some testing spherical enclosures (16cm diameter plastic balls and 1lb of NHMC covering the inner walls). They end with 0,5lts aprox.


Where did you get the plastic balls from? I've been trying to source some to no avail.


----------



## Hernan

katodevin said:


> Where did you get the plastic balls from? I've been trying to source some to no avail.


I live far south in Argentina. I found them looking around "Easy" (like home depot). Toilet floaters... not very elegant but fits the application for 1 buck


----------



## de hero

For all you guys subscribed - they are on sale at $18.00 a piece - Today Nov 30 2009.


----------



## captainobvious

boy.kroy said:


> TB W3-1364SA vs FR88EX, which one has better low frequency extension or low frequency efficiency? This would be the deciding factor for me.


Sorry for the delayed response as I havent been on as much lately.

The FR88 will be better for lower frequency playback. The W3 bamboos have rising distotion below 300hz which makes them undesireable below that area to a point. They also have just 0.5mm xmax which contributes to this.

The FR88 has (IIRC) 3mm xmax and a cleaner low end.

That said, I still prefer the sound of the W3. Whats your application? Will you be using this as a true fullrange?


----------



## captainobvious

de hero said:


> For all you guys subscribed - they are on sale at $18.00 a piece - Today Nov 30 2009.


wow, thats a steal. Good heads up. Think I'll get another pair.


----------



## OSN

After having the w3s in my car for testing purposes, it has spoiled me to the point where my Seas Neos have become unlistenable...until I heard these, I thought the Neos sounded pretty sweet. It seems that my tastes have changed.


----------



## captainobvious

OldSchoolNewbie said:


> After having the w3s in my car for testing purposes, it has spoiled me to the point where my Seas Neos have become unlistenable...until I heard these, I thought the Neos sounded pretty sweet. It seems that my tastes have changed.



W3 snob...

:bash:



:laugh::laugh:


----------



## niceguy

Crud, I had been checking PE's site for price drops but somehow missed that sale. Not that the W3s are expensive but I've spent more than usual lately not to mention a 30gb ipod that may render all of my active tuning moot. Not crazy about the SQ so far...


Jeremy


----------



## m3gunner

niceguy said:


> Crud, I had been checking PE's site for price drops but somehow missed that sale. Not that the W3s are expensive but I've spent more than usual lately not to mention a 30gb ipod that may render all of my active tuning moot. Not crazy about the SQ so far...
> 
> 
> Jeremy


Try ripping ALC. The files are bigger, but the SQ rocks.

I'm working on spending a little time with these drivers soon (maybe after xmas.) I've got a very interesting enclosure going on... can anyone guess what this used to be?


----------



## Mless5

Mac desktop speakers.


----------



## niceguy

So they won't roll right off the desk after all?

Very nice fit and cool see through setup!


----------



## m3gunner

Mless5 said:


> Mac desktop speakers.


We have a winner!

They don't roll because the bottom is flat and has a rubberized ring to keep them from slipping around. This should work well on a dash with a little double sided tape to hold it still.

I got a few sets of these passed down and they've been sitting in the garage far too long. Once I took out the front gasket and panel, the W3 fits in PERFECTLY. In fact, I could trim off about half of the mounting flange and get it to sit right in there. Now, I need to get some acoustic foam to cut reflections off the back of the enclosure and figure out how to seal them and run a wire into the thing. There is a metal "plug" on the back that I might be able to drill out to take some 16 gauge

Interesting drivers in there before... they look completely generic, but on closer inspection, the tops of the VC look similar to the 2" Peerless drivers that P-E has been closing out for a few months. In fact, the Peerless drivers fit almost perfectly into the hole that the Apple drivers were in... the almost is that the Apple drivers screw in on the edge, so there's a lip that needs some dremelizing so the Peerless driver will sit flat.

Hmmm... looks like I might have to play around with the Apple drivers and my new WT3...


----------



## Mless5

I sort of wonder what size of enclosure do they really need...


----------



## ryan s

Mless5 said:


> I sort of wonder what size of enclosure do they really need...


I'm thinking about grabbing some 3" PVC end caps (non-threaded). They look like they'd fit, although I'm betting the airspace is too much.

As freezing rain hits my windows and I look at the boxes...I can't wait for the spring to come so I can install these


----------



## de hero

I am loving the Apple computer speaker pods - great thinking. Anyone else came up with other ideas ? I think these are the contenders so far (as far as low fabrication alternatives go) :-

The toilet floater
The plastic (Craft Shop) halves
The Apple Desktop speakers
PVC End Caps


Have I missed any?


----------



## niceguy

Empty coconuts?:goofy:

Actually, they might work in my Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 speaker pods. Wonder how they'd mate w/the horn tweet.....


----------



## ryan s

You mean the Pro Media computer system? 

My 2.1 has been in its box for almost a year, but I don't think these TBs will fit. They just look a little too big for the enclosures...


----------



## DATCAT

de hero said:


> I am loving the Apple computer speaker pods - great thinking. Anyone else came up with other ideas ? I think these are the contenders so far (as far as low fabrication alternatives go) :-
> 
> The toilet floater
> The plastic (Craft Shop) halves
> The Apple Desktop speakers
> PVC End Caps
> 
> 
> Have I missed any?



How about plastic Christmas Tree decorations?


----------



## habagat

OSN said:


> After having the w3s in my car for testing purposes, it has spoiled me to the point where my Seas Neos have become unlistenable...until I heard these, I thought the Neos sounded pretty sweet. It seems that my tastes have changed.


 That settles it! Im getting nyself a couple of pairs Thanks guys for all the great info! This is my first post and thoroughly enjoying this forum! 
Any suggestions as to what amp for these driivers? dont think my little tripath is up to driving four w3s:worried:. Thanks again


----------



## Mless5

DATCAT said:


> How about plastic Christmas Tree decorations?


I haven't found any. But with little fab work, small soup bowls could look nice with these IMO.


----------



## UCF52

I believe IKEA sells bowls like that for like 5 bucks a pop. Worth looking into for sure.


----------



## OSN

habagat said:


> That settles it! Im getting nyself a couple of pairs Thanks guys for all the great info! This is my first post and thoroughly enjoying this forum!
> Any suggestions as to what amp for these driivers? dont think my little tripath is up to driving four w3s:worried:. Thanks again


Remember these are 8 ohm drivers, so check the amp's 8 ohm ratings. Unless you are running a pair per side in parallel and will run at 4 ohm, of course. 

I would personally look for a way to get 100w per driver at 8 ohm. I'll be running 200 each- more than they need for sure, so be careful that you cross them over high enough (315 Hz at the lowest with a steep slope) so that you don't exceed excursion, because they have none.


----------



## Stoph

I run my pair off a Zapco Ref 350.2 and they get plenty loud for me  Love them!


----------



## niceguy

ryan s said:


> You mean the Pro Media computer system?
> 
> My 2.1 has been in its box for almost a year, but I don't think these TBs will fit. They just look a little too big for the enclosures...


Yeah, I wasn't sure off hand. I had 2 sets and used one set of mids w/an older Technics 5.1 AVR and a TB 8" sub, sealed enclosure and plate amp for a computer 2.1 setup. Now I have a Klipsch center to mate w/the mids.

I was just thinking that the 2.1 mids were 3" in size but wasn't sure how close their measurements were to the TBs....

I'm still going to snag a pair sometime.


Jeremy


----------



## ryan s

Mless5 said:


> I haven't found any. But with little fab work, small soup bowls could look nice with these IMO.


Those wood ones would look great in my tan interior...too bad I don't have woodgrain. I located those bowls pictured...they recommend no temperature changes and rubbing with mineral oil to maintain their appearance...no good for the car  Oh and they're too small to boot. Damn 


UCF52 said:


> I believe IKEA sells bowls like that for like 5 bucks a pop. Worth looking into for sure.


Didn't see any small ones on their site. Maybe it's because of IKEA and their damn gobblyde**** names 


OSN said:


> Remember these are 8 ohm drivers, so check the amp's 8 ohm ratings. Unless you are running a pair per side in parallel and will run at 4 ohm, of course.
> 
> I would personally look for a way to get 100w per driver at 8 ohm. I'll be running 200 each- more than they need for sure, so be careful that you cross them over high enough (315 Hz at the lowest with a steep slope) so that you don't exceed excursion, because they have none.


.5mm Xmax baby! :laugh:


niceguy said:


> Yeah, I wasn't sure off hand. I had 2 sets and used one set of mids w/an older Technics 5.1 AVR and a TB 8" sub, sealed enclosure and plate amp for a computer 2.1 setup. Now I have a Klipsch center to mate w/the mids.
> 
> I was just thinking that the 2.1 mids were 3" in size but wasn't sure how close their measurements were to the TBs....
> 
> I'm still going to snag a pair sometime.
> 
> 
> Jeremy


I'd have to measure to be sure. The stock speakers are in the 2-3" range for sure...the mounting ring of the TBs looks pretty big comparitively. The TBs are also the widest 3" full rangers I've seen...at least that I paid attention to.


----------



## niceguy

I just popped the grill off one of the Klipsch mids and the woofer must be mounted from behind the front cover, which looks like it comes apart. The woofer, not including mounting flange measures around 2.75". 

I'm personally in no hurry to mod the speakers since I'm satisfied with them for light computer music/movie duty but I'd imagine they could be rigged. I doubt it would be worth it though unless someone had some spare enclosures w/non working speakers.

You could always take a blob of playdoh! or modeling clay and just shove the mid in there, w/a protective fabric between the speakers and blob of course

Jeremy


----------



## habagat

Stoph said:


> I run my pair off a Zapco Ref 350.2 and they get plenty loud for me  Love them!





OSN said:


> Remember these are 8 ohm drivers, so check the amp's 8 ohm ratings. Unless you are running a pair per side in parallel and will run at 4 ohm, of course.
> 
> I would personally look for a way to get 100w per driver at 8 ohm. I'll be running 200 each- more than they need for sure, so be careful that you cross them over high enough (315 Hz at the lowest with a steep slope) so that you don't exceed excursion, because they have none.


 so I guess I better start dusting off my trusty Zapco Z300! I know what you mean about low excursion drivers. have had a few for my home setup. I put up with them cos they sound oh so sweet thanks guys really aprreciate the input!


----------



## captainobvious

100w per driver is definitely overkill.  Not that there's anything wrong with that.
50 per driver is more than enough in my experience. These dont need much power to play loud, so dont feel liek you need to upgrade amplifiers to run these, thats definitely not that case


----------



## Codeblue

Alright who bought them all? PE is out of stock.


----------



## RyanM923

I have 2 pairs. $50 shipped each or $90 shipped for both if you're in need of some. Changed my mind(again) on my front stage, so I won't be needing them.


----------



## eggyhustles

Sorry if this was answered already, but can these be high passed @ 250? i'm gonna be using sls 8's in the doors band passed @ 60 to 250 with 500 on tap per side(i like headroom )


----------



## UCF52

eggyhustles said:


> Sorry if this was answered already, but can these be high passed @ 250? i'm gonna be using sls 8's in the doors band passed @ 60 to 250 with 500 on tap per side(i like headroom )


Model them up in WinISD... it will definitely need to be in an enclosure that can warrant the low crossover point. I think the lowest I tried them was 315.


----------



## eggyhustles

UCF52 said:


> Model them up in WinISD... it will definitely need to be in an enclosure that can warrant the low crossover point. I think the lowest I tried them was 315.


i see

well, can i bandpass the 8's higher?


----------



## Hernan

eggyhustles said:


> Sorry if this was answered already, but can these be high passed @ 250? i'm gonna be using sls 8's in the doors band passed @ 60 to 250 with 500 on tap per side(i like headroom )


Sorry, no way to use them below 400 at moderate output.
Yes, you could use the SLS higher than 250.
And yes, you still need a tw even with the W3 on axis.


----------



## eggyhustles

Hernan said:


> Sorry, no way to use them below 400 at moderate output.
> Yes, you could use the SLS higher than 250.
> And yes, you still need a tw even with the W3 on axis.


I was tryin' to avoid going with a tweet


----------



## savagebee

eggyhustles said:


> I was tryin' to avoid going with a tweet


sounds like thats subjective
several people have commented on how they dont need a tweet


----------



## Mless5

I tried them on axis as is... They sounded good... I than turned on tweeters that I had. I went only by my ears. I ended up low passing TBs around 5khz/12 and tweeters were playing 8K and up with 12db slope. This was in a car and I liked how it sounded. I felt like TBs did a good job full range, but I like it more with the above set up. 

I'd love to run these at home in a more friendly environment. I think they would do really good!


----------



## Hernan

savagebee said:


> sounds like thats subjective
> several people have commented on how they dont need a tweet


Life is subjective... 
They beam like crazy above 6k. 




For me.


----------



## savagebee

I just bought some on here, and will try them with and without a tweet
I was hoping to go tweeterless


----------



## BigRed

I rta'd these last night and they drop off gradually at 12k. they were completely on axis. not trying to argue about whether they can go tweeterless or not  just giving some factual feedback  you could probably eq the upper end in.


----------



## j_blackman

BigRed said:


> I rta'd these last night and they drop off gradually at 12k. they were completely on axis. not trying to argue about whether they can go tweeterless or not  just giving some factual feedback  you could probably eq the upper end in.


Would you be able to post some measured response graphs?


----------



## savagebee

BigRed said:


> I rta'd these last night and they drop off gradually at 12k. they were completely on axis. not trying to argue about whether they can go tweeterless or not  just giving some factual feedback  you could probably eq the upper end in.


does your HAT setup do this at all?

Wondering if its a function of your dash or is its simply the tangbands.

Ive got some tweets around so i can always throw a cap on them and run em from the mid amp


----------



## BigRed

I can post some pics later of the rta.

My HAT setup does not do this as I run a tweeter


----------



## savagebee

BigRed said:


> I can post some pics later of the rta.
> 
> My HAT setup does not do this as I run a tweeter


thank you for this big red, Im excited to see it.

How did it sound to you with the dropoff?


----------



## Hernan

Does anyone try them at the kicks? I like the stage height with them at the dash but I am used to the better PLD of kick installs.
I don't know if they have enough output to do it at the kicks..
Thanks!


----------



## skibell

Has anybody had any success in locating these drivers?


----------



## rommelrommel

Solen.ca has 2 I think still.


----------



## skibell

rommelrommel said:


> Solen.ca has 2 I think still.


Thanks Rommel


----------



## captainobvious

Hernan said:


> Sorry, no way to use them below 400 at moderate output.
> Yes, you could use the SLS higher than 250.
> And yes, you still need a tw even with the W3 on axis.


They still perform quite well crossed at 315hz -18db for me. Do they have rising distortion the further down you go? Yes. But to my ears, they do quite well up until that point, even at somewhat spirited listening levels.

As for the SLS...I prefer to keep it under 300hz (250 and below optimally)as I felt it got muddled anywhere above that point. I definitely would not run it above 400hz.

I also disagree about needing a tweeter. These had the perfect amount of top end for me while mounted on axis from the dash corners. If they are mounted in kicks or in an off axis configuration, then I would also suggest adding in a pair of tweeters.


----------



## captainobvious

Hernan said:


> Life is subjective...
> They beam like crazy above 6k.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me.



Hence the need to run them on axis if they are going to be used in a tweeterless setup


----------



## RyanM923

captainobvious said:


> I also disagree about needing a tweeter. These had the perfect amount of top end for me while mounted on axis from the dash corners. If they are mounted in kicks or in an off axis configuration, then I would also suggest adding in a pair of tweeters.


A lot of people just prefer a more "up front" top end, whereas others just prefer a nice little shallow rolloff starting arond 8k or so(me). I've never been a fan of in-your-face tweeters or a flat response up to 20khz...IMO once you get above 8k or so the information involved is minimal and not all that important in most cases, and having it as loud as the rest of the system takes away from what I consider to be the "more important" information, ie: voices, drums, guitars, horns, etc. that I prefer to be more prevalent. Again, just my opinion and personal preference.


----------



## lucas569

so how would these fare in a kickpanel location?


----------



## Hernan

captainobvious said:


> Hence the need to run them on axis if they are going to be used in a tweeterless setup


Hi, I have them on axis. They play high, absolutely, but they not image as good as a tw. I could easy heard each driver at high frecuncies, when the tweetes blends nicely at the center of the stage, dissapearing.

Of course, diferent cars, diferet results.

I don't think that 400 or 315 is a huge diference for the HP. For low xmas
drivers I feel better being polite and not pushing them to their limits.

I have no experience with the SLSs but 400/18 should be very doable for an 8, even a small sub could play up there. 

Do you like them more tweeterless or is an acceptable tradeoff?


----------



## captainobvious

Hernan said:


> Hi, I have them on axis. They play high, absolutely, but they not image as good as a tw. I could easy heard each driver at high frecuncies, when the tweetes blends nicely at the center of the stage, dissapearing.
> 
> Of course, diferent cars, diferet results.
> 
> I don't think that 400 or 315 is a huge diference for the HP. For low xmas
> drivers I feel better being polite and not pushing them to their limits.
> 
> I have no experience with the SLSs but 400/18 should be very doable for an 8, even a small sub could play up there.
> 
> Do you like them more tweeterless or is an acceptable tradeoff?


I agree about the higher xover point for a low xmas driver to a point. With this particular driver, it may be the cause of the rising distortion at those lower frequencies.
In my installation/testing, I didnt get "better" performance when using an additional tweeter so the drivers stood alone quite well. benefits of course being less space required in the vehicle, less amplification, etc etc. But of course installtion/tuning and personal preference are going to play a large part in whether these will suit someones tastes as a standalone (315hz+)fullrange driver.

As for the SLS8's, I think they can be used that high (400hz for sure), I just didnt like what I was hearing in my particular vehicle and install as compared with a lower crossover point.

Its interesting that you found that although the W3 played high, it didnt image as well as thw W3's combined with tweeters playing the uppermost frequencies. I would have thought that you would end up with more phasing issues with an additional pair of drivers and would actually end up with the opposite finding. Just goes to show how much different a particular set of drivers can sound in a different invironment/install


----------



## Hernan

captainobvious said:


> Its interesting that you found that although the W3 played high, it didnt image as well as thw W3's combined with tweeters playing the uppermost frequencies. I would have thought that you would end up with more phasing issues with an additional pair of drivers and would actually end up with the opposite finding. Just goes to show how much different a particular set of drivers can sound in a different invironment/install


I tried a lot of xo points between the W3 and the Tws. 6,5k is where I'm using it. I think that using a tw (next to the midrange) gives a more even polar response overall.

And thanks for all your good reviews!


----------



## savagebee

mine should be here Friday. Im going to try like hell to get a temp pod built on Monday so I can figure out if I will need a tweet or not. Also Ill try and figure out if i need two more of these for my desired output. Im pretty excited, hopefully this will help my lower soundstage issues, as well as giving me a better point source and PLDs (I have a very steep windshield and long dash)


----------



## fish

savagebee said:


> mine should be here Friday. Im going to try like hell to get a temp pod built on Monday so I can figure out if I will need a tweet or not. Also Ill try and figure out if i need two more of these for my desired output. Im pretty excited, hopefully this will help my lower soundstage issues, as well as giving me a better point source and PLDs (I have a very steep windshield and long dash)


Savagebee, are you still going with a pro audio midbass, or are you going with something else now?


----------



## OSN

Agree that w/tweeter or tweeterless is subjective on-axis. I won't run a tweeter with them because of how I prefer the sound IN MY CAR. I would suggest to anyone wanting to try these out (if you can get them) to go tweeterless first, with temporary setup, and see how it goes from there. I didn't even eq the top end and it fit my goals.


----------



## glide 1

what type tweeter would you all recommend if in fact it is needed. I would imagine xo point around 8k area for tw would be ideal?

i was looking at some 3/4" domes (or maybe a ribbon) with a very small footprint. Can anyone recommend a good tw to match with this driver.


----------



## bradknob

Too all those using these, what kind of power are you running to them? i have about 60 watts at 8 ohms. they will be installed in the A pillars crossed somewhere between 300hz and 3khz. how long have you beenn running them and with what power??


----------



## Hernan

bradknob said:


> Too all those using these, what kind of power are you running to them? i have about 60 watts at 8 ohms. they will be installed in the A pillars crossed somewhere between 300hz and 3khz. how long have you beenn running them and with what power??


That power is perfect, more than enought headroom.

These drivers are intended to play a wider passband. If you just need 300-3k are better drivers to use. 
300hz is asking too much for a 3 incher with 0,5mm of Xmax.

The W3 sweetspot is between 500 and 8k. Fullrange is ok too.


----------



## bradknob

Hernan said:


> That power is perfect, more than enought headroom.
> 
> These drivers are intended to play a wider passband. If you just need 300-3k are better drivers to use.
> 300hz is asking too much for a 3 incher with 0,5mm of Xmax.
> 
> The W3 sweetspot is between 500 and 8k. Fullrange is ok too.





Thx for the info. im running them in a 3way so once i get them installed i can play with x-over points. just curious how they handle a decent amt of power being that they are rated at 14 watts IIRC.


----------



## savagebee

fish said:


> Savagebee, are you still going with a pro audio midbass, or are you going with something else now?


I got some rs 225s from norcalsfinest here, but plan on upgrading to something more effecient with a broader passband eventually.


----------



## an2ny888

so 500hz is the sweetspot for these? will the sls 6.5 perform alright up to that xover point?


----------



## habagat

Still have to wait till february to get mine. 
I agree, 8k crossover point is better than 3k, ears less sensitive at higher frequencies, human ears are optimized to the human vocal range, The more one can get these frequencies to play out of one driver the better. Hence the cult like following of certain fullrange home drivers. just my .02 worth
Crossoverpoints can oftentimes, but not always, be staggered or underlapped. For example setting your midrange at 500hz and midbass at 300 or 400hz might not be an altogether bad thing. The absence of certain frequencies is less noticeable than the presence of artifacts that are not supposed to be there, and again just my .02 worth


----------



## captainobvious

bradknob said:


> Thx for the info. im running them in a 3way so once i get them installed i can play with x-over points. just curious how they handle a decent amt of power being that they are rated at 14 watts IIRC.


It will greatly depend on a few factors. How high are you cranking the volume, and what type and size enclosure are they in. The smaller the sealed enclosure they are in, the more power you can apply to them. But if you are running them IB or free air, you need to be careful with how much your giving them as they have very limited excursion.

I'd recommend a sealed enclosure around 0.75-1.0 liters. Ive had my xtant bridged on them in a configuration like this with a rated 200w per channel @ 4ohms bridged. Just be sensible with the volume knob is all


----------



## bradknob

captainobvious said:


> It will greatly depend on a few factors. How high are you cranking the volume, and what type and size enclosure are they in. The smaller the sealed enclosure they are in, the more power you can apply to them. But if you are running them IB or free air, you need to be careful with how much your giving them as they have very limited excursion.
> 
> I'd recommend a sealed enclosure around 0.75-1.0 liters. Ive had my xtant bridged on them in a configuration like this with a rated 200w per channel @ 4ohms bridged. Just be sensible with the volume knob is all




ill have them in the a pillars, so no enclosure. i planned on polyfill or something in there to help. i like my music pretty loud so i guess ill just have to put em in and take it light at first until i see what they can take. thx for the replies fallas


----------



## primetimetsa

Think these would mate well with tsc720-prs? Wondering if these would be a step up from the prs' tweets.


----------



## Maglite

glide 1 said:


> what type tweeter would you all recommend if in fact it is needed. I would imagine xo point around 8k area for tw would be ideal?
> 
> i was looking at some 3/4" domes (or maybe a ribbon) with a very small footprint. Can anyone recommend a good tw to match with this driver.


Wondering the same thing.

I came across these but not sure if they are a good fit.

Vifa DX25TG09-04 1" Fabric Dome Tweeter from Madisound


----------



## ryan s

I've read through this whole thread...and I need some "positive reinforcement" :laugh:

The amp I want to run these with does 100 x 2 at 4 Ohms BUT I don't know if that's at 12V or 14V...can't find out for sure. Since these are 8 Ohm drivers, would I be out of line running them at around 4 times rated power?

I will be putting them in small, sealed enclosures of unknown size...but small :laugh: Probably put some PolyFill in them if needed. I know the small enclosure will boost the power handling, but the .5mm Xmax is making me nervous with that much power on tap...


----------



## UCF52

ryan s said:


> I've read through this whole thread...and I need some "positive reinforcement" :laugh:
> 
> The amp I want to run these with does 100 x 2 at 4 Ohms BUT I don't know if that's at 12V or 14V...can't find out for sure. Since these are 8 Ohm drivers, would I be out of line running them at around 4 times rated power?
> 
> I will be putting them in small, sealed enclosures of unknown size...but small :laugh: Probably put some PolyFill in them if needed. I know the small enclosure will boost the power handling, but the .5mm Xmax is making me nervous with that much power on tap...


Use your gain knob correctly and set them. I had 100x2 (4ohm) when I used the W3's. Gain knob worked fine for me.


----------



## ryan s

Sweet...sometimes you just need someone to tell you you're not crazy, ya know? :laugh: Thanks!

This amp goes all the way up to 7V of input so I should have plenty of "back off" room


----------



## purplecity

hi! just need some your suggestions.. which of these three mids do you think would work well with the bamboo mids?

Parts-Express.comeerless 835004 SDS 6-1/2" Woofer 4 Ohm | Peerless P835004 835004 SDS woofer 6-1/2" Woofer 4 Ohm woofer bass mid midbass mtm coated cone 2-way tymphany peerlessBuy050109 Symphony of Savings Peerless070109 npa00453 TymVifPeerBuyouts

Parts-Express.comeerless/Tymphany TPY06W04S0063 6-1/2" Woofer 6 Ohm | Tymphany TPY06W04S0063 6-1/2" Woofer 6 Ohm woofer peerless vifa bass mid midbass mtm coated cone 2-way npa00453

Parts-Express.comeerless 830957 6-1/2" SDS Woofer | Peerless 830957 6-1/2" SDS Woofer peerless vifa bass mid midbass mtm coated paper cone 2-way Tymphany

bamboo mids will be in the dash, mids will be on the doors.. parts-express doesn't have the SLS 6.5" and the SLS 8" won't fit my doors.
HU: alpine 9855
Amp: RF power T4004

Thanks!


----------



## justinmreina

Hello,
Alright, after reading through this thread last week I couldn't resist and bought myself a set of the W4s. How will this cone stand up to the car environment (temp/humidity)? I have never tried home speakers in a car. Will they last more than a year/two years played sensibly? I live in Washington and park outside, so all of the temperature and humidity swings apply. Especially as my mounts are in the A-Pillars.

Thanks,
Justin Reina


----------



## fish

purplecity said:


> hi! just need some your suggestions.. which of these three mids do you think would work well with the bamboo mids?
> 
> Parts-Express.comeerless 835004 SDS 6-1/2" Woofer 4 Ohm | Peerless P835004 835004 SDS woofer 6-1/2" Woofer 4 Ohm woofer bass mid midbass mtm coated cone 2-way tymphany peerlessBuy050109 Symphony of Savings Peerless070109 npa00453 TymVifPeerBuyouts
> 
> Parts-Express.comeerless/Tymphany TPY06W04S0063 6-1/2" Woofer 6 Ohm | Tymphany TPY06W04S0063 6-1/2" Woofer 6 Ohm woofer peerless vifa bass mid midbass mtm coated cone 2-way npa00453
> 
> Parts-Express.comeerless 830957 6-1/2" SDS Woofer | Peerless 830957 6-1/2" SDS Woofer peerless vifa bass mid midbass mtm coated paper cone 2-way Tymphany
> 
> bamboo mids will be in the dash, mids will be on the doors.. parts-express doesn't have the SLS 6.5" and the SLS 8" won't fit my doors.
> HU: alpine 9855
> Amp: RF power T4004
> 
> Thanks!


If you're set on getting the SLS 6.5's check out Madisound.


----------



## an2ny888

i have a set of sls 6.5 for sale, and best of all im also in manila


----------



## OSN

justinmreina said:


> Hello,
> Alright, after reading through this thread last week I couldn't resist and bought myself a set of the W4s. How will this cone stand up to the car environment (temp/humidity)? I have never tried home speakers in a car. Will they last more than a year/two years played sensibly? I live in Washington and park outside, so all of the temperature and humidity swings apply. Especially as my mounts are in the A-Pillars.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin Reina


Interesting you brought up the w4. As for cone material, it should be about the same as a paper cone, as far as I know. Also, listening to the w4s after the w3s was a little disappointing. They didn't have the same sound characteristics, and that was a surprise. I hope you like them, but
understand that the w3s are not the same.


----------



## ryan s

Since this thread is bumped...someone brought up swapping these into a computer speaker system. They are a direct drop in for the Klipsch Promedia systems 

I didn't do it since the stock mids are securely glued to the baffle. I know...fail  Didn't feel like tearing em up just for curiosity's sake.


----------



## justinmreina

OSN said:


> Interesting you brought up the w4. As for cone material, it should be about the same as a paper cone, as far as I know. Also, listening to the w4s after the w3s was a little disappointing. They didn't have the same sound characteristics, and that was a surprise. I hope you like them, but
> understand that the w3s are not the same.


Is this related to the directivity starting earlier (in freq) with the larger diameter cone of the w4, or something else? 

-Justin

*So the paper cones of home speakers last for a sufficient period in car applications?


----------



## OSN

justinmreina said:


> Is this related to the directivity starting earlier (in freq) with the larger diameter cone of the w4, or something else?
> 
> -Justin
> 
> *So the paper cones of home speakers last for a sufficient period in car applications?


I can't say WHY they sounded different- they sounded brighter, certainly
played lower, but lost some of the jazziness, for lack of a better word.

I would think they would work out fine as long as they aren't mounted
in doors IB or somewhere that rain/snow can get on them.


----------



## captainobvious

justinmreina said:


> Is this related to the directivity starting earlier (in freq) with the larger diameter cone of the w4, or something else?
> 
> -Justin
> 
> *So the paper cones of home speakers last for a sufficient period in car applications?



If I may, I'll try to answer that for you as well. 

In my experience with both drivers, I felt that the W4 was a little more ragged sounding on the top end when used full range. It has more xmax and cone area though, so if you plan to use it in conjunction with a tweeter, id go for the W4. The W4 and W3 were both tested on axis, so I dont think beaming would have been an issue. So it just comes down to what performed better as a semi-full range driver. In that application (315hz and up), the W3 was the better of the two because of its smoother, yet still detailed top end.
Thats no slight against the W4 though, which is a very capable driver.
In fact, I am in the planning stages of a set of home speakers centered around the W4-1320SJ mids. 

As for the longevity in the car environment, I wouldnt worry one bit about it. They are better built and with better materials than stock speakers and we know those last quite some time. Ive never had a pair of aftermarket speakers fail due to weathering. 


-Steve


----------



## justinmreina

Hey,
Sweet! I figured the 3" would do better at the top end simply from cone-size. I got the W4 though for higher power handling so it would properly match my system (the W3's 12W RMS is a tad on the low side for me). And your comment on the home speakers on car brings much relief to me 

Thanks!
-Justin


----------



## purplecity

an2ny888 said:


> i have a set of sls 6.5 for sale, and best of all im also in manila


you got PM'ed bro..

cant wait for those thang bands to be available again on partsexpress..


----------



## savagebee

justinmreina said:


> Hey,
> Sweet! I figured the 3" would do better at the top end simply from cone-size. I got the W4 though for higher power handling so it would properly match my system (the W3's 12W RMS is a tad on the low side for me). And your comment on the home speakers on car brings much relief to me
> 
> Thanks!
> -Justin


My w3s get fairly loud. Just an fyi. Just cause its a 12wrms rated speaker doesnt mean it cant handle more. I believe tang band rated them there with a 250 hz cutoff. I play mine from 400 up, and its almost as loud as my standard tweeter setup.


----------



## justinmreina

This forum is dangerous, I should quit. You are swaying me towards getting a pair of the W3s also, and doing a side-by-side.

Is there anyone around Seattle that has a pair of W3's I could listen to? I could let you try out the W4s 

-Justin


----------



## captainobvious

savagebee said:


> My w3s get fairly loud. Just an fyi. Just cause its a 12wrms rated speaker doesnt mean it cant handle more. I believe tang band rated them there with a 250 hz cutoff. I play mine from 400 up, and its almost as loud as my standard tweeter setup.



In fact, that power rating is probably mounted to a baffle, free air. So once in an enclosure, you will get higher power handling.


----------



## DarkScorpion

Bringing this back up. Has anyone tried these bouncing off the windshield? Thinking about mounting them in my stock dash location which is aimed directly upwards at the base of the windshield. Any input?


----------



## RyanM923

I believe TB's power ratings are done full range.


----------



## bradknob

DarkScorpion said:


> Bringing this back up. Has anyone tried these bouncing off the windshield? Thinking about mounting them in my stock dash location which is aimed directly upwards at the base of the windshield. Any input?


mine are not mounted at the moment ( im building pillar pods for them) and are just sitting in the hole in my dash where the pillar would be. im also running a tweeter, but have tried them reflecting off the windshield. At first, with tweeter playing it had a weird "echo" and trying to tune with the tweeter on axis and W3 facing windshield was a PITA and never got the T/A correct. Secondly, i unhooked tweeter and ran just the W3s and one position was shooting at the windshield. Off axis, it really loses alot of top end and i think you would really have to work on some angled baffles in stock speaker location in order to get a good sound. But if done right it can sound pretty good, i managed to get a really "airy" front stage. i guess bottom line is if you are willing to do a little trial and error to deal with reflections it could sound nice.
For what its worth im keeping my tweets and w3, since they will be slightly off axis, but i light a bright top end. but i will have to join the band wagon and say that i am very happy with my pair.


----------



## savagebee

my w3s are about 45 deg off axis, pointing up at the dome light. With no eq my top end is fine for me. If they go any firther off axis I lose all my top end. They beam, but not as bad as an rr in my experience.

I just got my new amps put in. two 2150s and 2 2080s from us acoustics.

One 2080 per w3, Im hoping that the increased power will give me a better dynamic range. I was only running about 50wrms to them before, and I will have 90 now. Hopefully it will make a difference on some transients. I had them muted quite a bit from th h/u before, and they got plenty loud. Hopefully with some eq in use I willbring out the sparkle a little bit more


----------



## hcbassplay

HOLY CRAP these things sound great... I've had mine for a month just sitting in the boxes. I bought them for the a-pillars in my truck, but I'm in the middle of starting a business, and needed some tunes in my workshop. Today I made some enclosures for them from cardboard packing tube and MDF for use on my main workbench so I could rock out when working on a job tonight.

Hooked them up to a T-amp (15Wx2) and my Sansa Clip MP3 player, these things SING. I mean, it's one of the best sounding setups I've heard, and I've heard a lot. 

I tried not to buy into the hype, but it's really hard not to with these little guys... the hype is warranted IMO. Even 128k MP3's sound good on these, which is saying a LOT. Normally I won't even listen to MP3's if they're encoded at that bitrate.


I'm kind of ticked because now I'm going to have to buy a few more pairs.


----------



## aV8ter

hcbassplay said:


> I'm kind of ticked because now I'm going to have to buy a few more pairs.


I know lol. They seem cheap until you add 8 into your cart haha.


----------



## hcbassplay

Here's a couple pics of mine in the pods I made... they sound even better than they did free air (duh).


----------



## aV8ter

I'm in love!!!!! I like how you posted those like they are no big deal lol. Good job man!!!!!


----------



## Stoph

Those pods look great!!! Nice Job


----------



## j_blackman

So casual about such pieces of art, great job!


----------



## hcbassplay

Haha, they did turn out pretty nice... the best thing is they sound as good as they look.


----------



## Mless5

I wonder if there is a small format tweeter that will sound the way these puppies do...


----------



## angelspeedfreak

FYI - these are back in stock...........................

I ordered mine yesterday and received a shipment summary the same day.


----------



## manstretch

Anyone have pics of these mounted with PVC a-pillar pods?


----------



## UCF52

manstretch said:


> Anyone have pics of these mounted with PVC a-pillar pods?


Probably not what you're are looking for, but for what it's worth;


----------



## Stoph

I have mine mounted in little globes in the A-pillars. Not really PVC tho


----------



## cobra93

UCF52 & Stoph, I haven't read the entire thread yet.
I got these the other day and hooked one of them up to an extra head unit in my computer room ( in a small cardboard box ). I didn't like them at first, however the more I listen to them the more I like them. My question is: how are the high's with them being so far off axis from the driver's position? If I am more than ~ 5 or 10 degree's off axis the high's disappear. I have not tried them in my truck. Hopefully by this weekend I'll be able to answer this question for myself. 
Thanks.


----------



## manstretch

I'm about to install these using 3" PVC caps... is the lack of appropriate volume (Vas is like 1.9 liters) going to be a real issue?


----------



## UCF52

cobra93 said:


> UCF52 & Stoph, I haven't read the entire thread yet.
> I got these the other day and hooked one of them up to an extra head unit in my computer room ( in a small cardboard box ). I didn't like them at first, however the more I listen to them the more I like them. My question is: how are the high's with them being so far off axis from the driver's position? If I am more than ~ 5 or 10 degree's off axis the high's disappear. I have not tried them in my truck. Hopefully by this weekend I'll be able to answer this question for myself.
> Thanks.


Given their relatively low XMAX compared to similar drivers (Peerless, Fountek) I found they needed to be DEAD on-axis to even come close to satisfying (used as a wide-band, tweeterless). I dumped them for the Fountek FR88's and am not looking back! The FR88's have 6 times the XMAX that the W3's have. It makes a big difference, even with a bunch of power on hand. The W3's just didn't get loud enough for me. It is a fantastic sounding driver though, there is no doubt about that. In my experience, it needed a tweeter to be paired with it.

FWIW, I demoed them in sealed .75l enclosures, and had them on all sorts of axes.


----------



## captainobvious

They need to be mounted/aimed on axis unless you plan to use heavy EQ or a tweeter.


----------



## DarkScorpion

how about aimed upwards and bouncing off the windshield?


----------



## UCF52

DarkScorpion said:


> how about aimed upwards and bouncing off the windshield?


I'm pissed I never tried these out in the dash location, because I really love my FR88's there.

I'd still be concerned with the low Xmax.


----------



## DarkScorpion

UCF52 said:


> I'm pissed I never tried these out in the dash location, because I really love my FR88's there.
> 
> I'd still be concerned with the low Xmax.


What size enclosure do you have your FR88's mounted in?


----------



## cobra93

UCF52, Thanks for the quick response. How do the FR88's sound compared to the W3's? What do you like better about the FR88's ( besides output, which you've already stated ) as I have not heard them. I would have to believe the FR88's will beam just like the W3's, yes or not as bad?

I got some 3" pvc end caps and some 3" pvc bushings yesterday ( I can almost double the chamber size by sliding them in and out ). I'm playing them full range with about 6 or 7 watts right now, hey it's a garbage head unit. I'll try to get them in my truck soon hooked to my HX-D10 and 300/2 and go from there.

Thanks for your time.


----------



## cobra93

Captinobvious, What are your thoughts: FR88's versus W3's?

Thanks for your response and thoughts.


----------



## cobra93

I'm considering using these ( W3's or FR88's ) with some peerless 8" sls mids in an active setup in a ford ranger crossed somewhere around 300 - 400 hertz( I'll have to play with them ). If it doesn't sound "good" it won't stay and I like my music loud and clean.


----------



## UCF52

DarkScorpion said:


> What size enclosure do you have your FR88's mounted in?


They are IB'd in the dash (stuffed with polyfill), but the airspace in there is pretty well sealed - I'd say it's like a hybrid between a AP and IB arrangement. 

They have no problem being crossed at 315hz.



cobra93 said:


> UCF52, Thanks for the quick response. How do the FR88's sound compared to the W3's?
> What do you like better about the FR88's ( besides output, which you've already stated ) as I have not heard them. I would have to believe the FR88's will beam just like the W3's, yes or not as bad?


The FR88's are a little sharper in the upper treble and seem to perform a little better in the lower vocal region (300-500hz). The W3's are a warmer, more laid back speaker. They would make a VERY good dedicated mid-range candidate. I feel the FR88's are much more suitable/flexible as a wide-band (tweeterless) driver.




cobra93 said:


> I'm considering using these ( W3's or FR88's ) with some peerless 8" sls mids in an active setup in a ford ranger crossed somewhere around 300 - 400 hertz( I'll have to play with them ). If it doesn't sound "good" it won't stay and I like my music loud and clean.


I had the SLS 6.5's in the doors and I didn't like them at all. I recently switched to the Dayton RS180's and couldn't be happier. Much better door candidate than the SLS's were. You may want to check out the RS225's.


----------



## fish

No offense UCF, but I don't think I've ever read anywhere on here where someone didn't like the output of the SLS 8 IB in a door like some have with the SLS 6.5. I could've missed some though.

The Qts is quite a bit higher on the SLS 8.

Also, I've read where people didn't like the RS225 IB either, thought it needed an enclosure.


----------



## cobra93

UCF52: I think I'll order some FR88's and do a comparison. I like the overall sound of the W3's, but since I'm used to having a tweeter I find myself raising the treble to compensate. 

I'm debating on door mount vs. under seat mounting the 8's ( I'll cut the floor and weld an enclosure under the truck if the frame isn't in the way) . I have run across the dayton vs. peerless debate quite a few times. I am considering some other drivers as well.

Fish: Thanks for your input as well on the mids. I'll keep searching. 

If it gives any insight to my preferences, I love the sound of my xr 650 csi's, but find my xr 570 coax's lacking the same detail, both run off a 300/2. The 570's are door mounted in my ranger, the 650's are sealed kick panel mounted and much closer to being on axis in my 93 cobra. Which is probably the reason for this.

If anything I've stated would help a recommendation (mids) I'm open to suggestions.
Thanks again for your time.


----------



## fish

Cobra - 

I have the Fountek FR88's in the pillars in a somewhat similar enclosure to what UCF described for his. There's rare times where I wish I had a tweeter for the very high range(7k+)just to hear the differences. People have said the FR88 gets a bit harsh in that range. I've entertained the notion of getting some of these tiny lil' bastards to help out. Parts-Express.comayton ND16FA-6 5/8" Neodymium Dome Tweeter | tweeter nd16fa-6 soft dome tweeter dome tweeter neodynium dayton audio dayton loudspeaker dayton


----------



## cobra93

Fish: I'll keep those in mind, thanks.
I'm going to order the FR88's for comparison. 
I also will put some power to them both in my truck ( with a crossover ) and see what happens. 
I have the W3's in about 28 cubic inch enclosures now powered by a cheap panasonic cq-dfx403u ( from an old beater car ) head unit for the moment. They sound pretty good until the volume is at 34 of 40, at which time I can hear hissing and static coming from them ( I assume it's the crappy amp in the panasonic ).

I'll most likely go with a two way first and add a tweeter if needed. If I end up needing a tweeter I may try TB's w4 bamboo driver in the W3's place.

Thanks again.


----------



## Hernan

I have been using the W3s as midranges from 400/18 to 3,2K they sound very very nice and have very good dinamics. I'm powering them with a DLS 70w per channel amp with the gains pretty high.

For dash installs they have enough output down to 400hz and sounds clean.
Perhaps for kicks a higher output driver should be better for those who like to listen at high levels.

The Founteks looks nice and have a lot more xmax. Sure than they play lower but I don't know how much power could they take thermaly. Their motor is not much bigger than the one on the W3...


----------



## fish

I have my Fountek's hooked up to a JL HD600/4, so in theory they're getting roughly 75 watts. But I doubt that's the case. Gains are maybe turned a fifth, & it's get too loud around -8 to -11 on my DRZ.

Hope that helps ya a bit.


----------



## cobra93

I just ordered the FR88's, So I'll do a comparison later this week. 
Thanks for your thoughts everybody.


----------



## charcoal grey

I just finished installing the W3's along with some vifa midbass. Sub will come next. In my circumstance no tweeter is needed. These play high enough and sound very natural doing it. I have to say I am blown away with how good they sound. Easily beats every other setup I have used in this vehicle.


----------



## captainobvious

cobra93 said:


> Captinobvious, What are your thoughts: FR88's versus W3's?
> 
> Thanks for your response and thoughts.


My apologies. I havent been on as frequent lately. Other things occupying my time 

FR88 vs W3
Well, that depends on where they will be installed, how they are aimed, and what frequency range you plan to use them at. Lets just *assume* that you will use them in dash, aimed on axis to the driver playing 350hz and up. 

In this scenario, the additional frequency response on the very upper end of the FR88 is negligible on my opinion. On axis, the W3 has excellent frequency response and I dont feel any additional EQ or tweeter is necessary. The FR88 is definitely a "brighter" sounding driver because it is an aluminum cone. It sounds like an aluminum coned driver. A little harder edged, a little more detailed. BUT, for me the W3 is the perfect blend of detail and smoothness. The vocal clarity is outstanding.

Some of the things to note are the paltry 0.5mm xmax of the W3 (not TOO big of a deal if you're crossing it high enough and not trying to win SPL comps with them  ) while the FR88 has 3mm xmax. In the same band of 350hz and up, you're not gaining much here, but if asked to play lower- the FR88 will be much more up to the task.
Both drivers offer high quality construction, excellent sound and unbelievably low price points. Either one is a win in my book. You just need to decide which sound you prefer, metal or paper. The bamboo for me sounded somewhere in the middle. 

Using either of these with a pair of solid dedicated midbasses (like the SLS and others) will yield some sweet tunes. Bank on it .


----------



## captainobvious

charcoal grey said:


> I just finished installing the W3's along with some vifa midbass. Sub will come next. In my circumstance no tweeter is needed. These play high enough and sound very natural doing it. I have to say I am blown away with how good they sound. Easily beats every other setup I have used in this vehicle.



Glad to see you took the advice and went dash mounted on-axis. Im not surprised you're really enjoying it. Its certainly a fatastic driver. 

Cheers


----------



## cobra93

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by cobra93 View Post
> Captinobvious, What are your thoughts: FR88's versus W3's?
> 
> Thanks for your response and thoughts.
> My apologies. I havent been on as frequent lately. Other things occupying my time
> 
> FR88 vs W3
> Well, that depends on where they will be installed, how they are aimed, and what frequency range you plan to use them at. Lets just *assume* that you will use them in dash, aimed on axis to the driver playing 350hz and up.
> 
> In this scenario, the additional frequency response on the very upper end of the FR88 is negligible on my opinion. On axis, the W3 has excellent frequency response and I dont feel any additional EQ or tweeter is necessary. The FR88 is definitely a "brighter" sounding driver because it is an aluminum cone. It sounds like an aluminum coned driver. A little harder edged, a little more detailed. BUT, for me the W3 is the perfect blend of detail and smoothness. The vocal clarity is outstanding.
> 
> Some of the things to note are the paltry 0.5mm xmax of the W3 (not TOO big of a deal if you're crossing it high enough and not trying to win SPL comps with them ) while the FR88 has 3mm xmax. In the same band of 350hz and up, you're not gaining much here, but if asked to play lower- the FR88 will be much more up to the task.
> Both drivers offer high quality construction, excellent sound and unbelievably low price points. Either one is a win in my book. You just need to decide which sound you prefer, metal or paper. The bamboo for me sounded somewhere in the middle.
> 
> Using either of these with a pair of solid dedicated midbasses (like the SLS and others) will yield some sweet tunes. Bank on it .



no apology necessary, Captinobvious. 

I haven't had time to get either of these in my truck (with some power and a x-over) yet. I've been listening to them off of head unit power full range in my house.
They both seem to get loud and sound good doing it. I'm guessing the fr88ex's will be my choice for the truck (as soon as I get back to day shift at work) simply because they seem to be much better off axis. That could change once I actually hear them on the dash though.

Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## Hernan

Just an update. I move the W3 to the kicks and change from a [email protected] to [email protected]
Sweet! what a driver! (450 to 3.2). Vocals are NICE.


----------



## bumpinP

I have a Logitech THX Certified 2.1 speaker system that I am pretty sure uses this same driver. It is the ZX-2200 and is no longer made (replaced by the zx-2300 which is inferior imo). Now that I am thinking about using dash mounted full ranges in my car I stumbled upon this

Logitech THX Certified Satellite Speaker - eBay (item 230466936174 end time May-10-10 04:33:49 PDT)

The seller accepted $9 each speaker plus a $13 shipping fee means I'm out $31 for a pair of what maybe the best 3" full range speaker out right now. When they arrive I will be taking the enclosure apart and hopefully will be able to confirm that they are in fact the same driver. Also will be posting info about the enclosures that are used and looking for input about possibly modding them. Otherwise I'll just make my own sealed enclosure, but the idea of a ported 3" full range driver sounds appealing to me if it means lower frequency response without overly compromising sq.

Also - for those of you all concerned about deflection issues in the car environment 3 sides of the enclosure are completely rounded off.


----------



## Gilroy

Hernan said:


> Just an update. I move the W3 to the kicks and change from a [email protected] to [email protected]
> Sweet! what a driver! (450 to 3.2). Vocals are NICE.


Ok read it slower this time...

If you tried to run it from 450 all the way up, what happens?


----------



## Hernan

Gilroy said:


> Ok read it slower this time...
> 
> If you tried to run it from 450 all the way up, what happens?



They beam like crazy. I don't like it. Tweeter are different animals...


----------



## Gilroy

So no chance of doing 2 way with this, or any of the 2-3" full range drivers?


----------



## de hero

Just wanted to update this thread with my install results, finally got the tang bands up on the dash. Pods are made out of large plastic Martini Glasses. See thread link here.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...vs-underdash-horns-vs-3-4-textile-tweets.html


Going three way active with these realized a tremendous improvement over an admittedly super sucky “stock-ish” system. This is my first active system (yes another noob) so still playing with cross over points. 

I am still working on figuring a way to permanently anchor the pods to the dash, so for now they are hanging on by some ScotchTape removable double sided adhesive pads. Well on to the particulars :-

Vehicle is a 2002 Subaru Forester (JDM) S/tb right hand drive. As Hernan suggested I am high passing around 350 to 400 Hz and Low passing around 6000Hz, stock Pioneer tweeter takes over from there to open just to fill in the top end sparkle. 

I did not try to run the Tang Bands tweeterless because of what Hernan and a few others had indicated, but my ears tell me that the decision may probably swing on how far on or off axis your set up is. I think I would want tweeters all things considered. Right now the passenger side Tang Band is on axis and the driver’s side is 30 degrees off axis.

The tweets and the Tang Bands are powered by 4x50w @ 4Ohms from channels 1&2 and 3&4 of a DLS RA50. They get plenty loud for my taste and I like it moderately louder than your health care professional would recommend.

No time alignment available from head unit Pioneer FH8000BT, crossover slopes are 24Db using an AudioControl DQX fed by front channel out of head unit. I am running a three way front plus sub with the head unit taking care of subwoofer cross over via the 3rd pair of sub out RCA’s from the head unit.

The original Pioneer 6.5 inch mid-bass speaker pair are still in the front doors doing duty from 80Hz to 350Hz, for some reason I feel that I have lost a little of the previously anemic midbass performance I did have before I went active.

These 3 inchers really have changed what was previously an awful mangling of sound around the human vocal range, this was especially bad because of the off axis stock position of the tweeters as well as the size of those tweeters also I imagine. 

The Tang Bands are very detailed to my noob ears and I honestly don’t think that I will be changing these out anytime soon. If the more expensive drivers are proportionately of better quality than this, then color me green with envy.


Thanks to Diyma member pneffkell for selling me that AudioControl unit, I really appreciate it, it functioned perfectly, he was great guy to do business with. Thanks also to Rovin for his assistance in fabricating the pod.


----------



## Hernan

Gilroy said:


> So no chance of doing 2 way with this, or any of the 2-3" full range drivers?


I can not comment on other drivers but with these, i dont' like them fullrange at the car (at home as satelites could be a different story).

Everyday we learn something new. At this stage I like even power distribution between drivers. In my car and to my ears, I want the drivers to have similar FR on or offaxis. I still take care of reflexions but I feel that this way the system sounds more natural and the drivers dissapears.


----------



## Hondacru27

I had just installed 2 of the W3's in the 3 inch pipe caps. Just did a copy of the Tweeter pod How to that was discussed on the forum. had them lined with sound deadener and filled with a nice piece off the Foam bedding mats that are used for camping. They are aim'd on axis.

The left speaker is about 20 inches away from me as the Right is about 3-4 feet away. I did a little bit of Time correction but needs a little bit more fiddling with.

The amp used is a MB Quart DSC 4125 4 channel. It's being fed about 50-60 watts. I'm running a 9887 active. Very pleased with the drivers and they do get loud but this is my first dash pillar install along with going active. I have it currently crossed at 160hz 24db. I tried 125 but they started to get a nice perfume smell teee hee. so I crossed it up back to 160. No distortion till I hit about 25 on the volume knob of the 9887. these babies are awesome. I love the Snares off this driver. I hear things I never heard before in some recordings. 

After I get some Midbass's I'll cross the w3's up higher to around 250-315 at maybe 18 or 24 slope. and cross the Sub stage lower from 125hz currently to most likely 63hz.

I'm afraid as they DO get loud, I may need two more drivers to pull more wattage out of the amps and have more head room to turn up the volume on some songs. Finding where to add two more makes my head hurt.

The Beatles would be a good example of having to up the volume along with EQing up the sub stage a bit to match.

Playing the Outkast SpeakerboxX album had me hearing things in more detail that was never heard before. 

This install is in a 96 Jaguar XJ6.

Pics to come soon of the dash view.

Sorry for the crappyness of the pic.

All is left is Mid bass and a dedicated Amp for the substage. Dad's had a few sessions with me listening and is so impressed he wants me to do a similiar setup in his Chevy Express van. (I'm Jealous of all that room on top of the dash!)


----------



## captainobvious

Gilroy said:


> So no chance of doing 2 way with this, or any of the 2-3" full range drivers?


You'll find alot of comments about this earlier in the thread. These are excellent in a two way without a tweeter *IF* you have them aimed on axis. They roll off quickly in the upper octaves if you have them aimed off axis so a tweeter would be required to be run with them then.
ON AXIS though, they are fantastic.


----------



## captainobvious

Hondacru27 said:


> I have it currently crossed at 160hz 24db. I tried 125 but they started to get a nice perfume smell teee hee. so I crossed it up back to 160. No distortion till I hit about 25 on the volume knob of the 9887. these babies are awesome. I love the Snares off this driver. I hear things I never heard before in some recordings.
> 
> After I get some Midbass's I'll cross the w3's up higher to around 250-315 at maybe 18 or 24 slope. and cross the Sub stage lower from 125hz currently to most likely 63hz.


WOW. 160hz is definitely way to low for these. Id definitely recommend getting a midbass in there soon and until then keep the volume low, or cross higher when you want to jam a bit.
Glad your enjoying them...these are excellent mid/full range drivers.


----------



## Hondacru27

captainobvious said:


> WOW. 160hz is definitely way to low for these. Id definitely recommend getting a midbass in there soon and until then keep the volume low, or cross higher when you want to jam a bit.
> Glad your enjoying them...these are excellent mid/full range drivers.


I had a pair of old Pioneer Coaxials that I threw in last night to get an idea of what's going to happen with my tuning. I had them run off the Deck Power since running 120 watts into them off the amp will not be good. 

I crossed the W3's higher to 315 and turned it up. and then I tried 400 and bingo. They are even better at 400hz. So the finale will most likely be 400 with a 24 or 18 slope. the pioneer 2ways are Terrible but it gives me an idea of what will happen.


----------



## Hernan

I have been using the W3 for some time now.
they are at the kicks next to the midbasses. In this install, the response of the midbasses is much better than before (doors) and the upper midbass, around 400 is as good or better than what the W3s do. This helps a lot on keeping the W3s near 500hz. Now I could ask them a bit more output with lower distortion at higher volumes.


----------



## Hernan

I have a question...
Now, having the W3s at the kicks they need more power to keep with the others drivers.

They really tax the amp. I'm using a infinity [email protected], enought for them at the pillars but not at the kicks.

I tried with a bit more gain at the amp and it clips bad.

I take home one kick and tried it connected to my home amp, a Marantz [email protected] and I was really surprised on how good and LOUD this little drivers could get. 
So... They are wonderfull drivers but they need a really beaffy amp.


----------



## Hondacru27

Hernan, 

I Have my W3' in pods on my dash. for a while, I had the amp giving it approx 62-70 watts power with a 315hz cross at 24 db. Then I have been bridging one channel of the amp to them with about 250 watts. I had to be weary about the thermal handling of the speaker and upped the cross to 500hz/24db slope to keep the heat down.

I have had it this way for afew weeks. I like the fuller vocals at 315 than 500. but I know, that to continue to feed 250 watts at 315 hz is going to TOAST them real fast.

I then saw the 4inch version on Partsexpress. they have a 3db sensitivity increase over the w3's. I may have to do some eqing on the high frequencies but I think they can play 250-315hz with even less power from amp to achieve same db level. hopefully they can handle it from a thermal side also.

I have them ordered they should be here beginning of next week.

They are just about the same price as the w3's and as I have already melted one of the drivers I decided to try the w4's out. I hope I can get them to look good on the dash!





Hernan said:


> I have a question...
> Now, having the W3s at the kicks they need more power to keep with the others drivers.
> 
> They really tax the amp. I'm using a infinity [email protected], enought for them at the pillars but not at the kicks.
> 
> I tried with a bit more gain at the amp and it clips bad.
> 
> I take home one kick and tried it connected to my home amp, a Marantz [email protected] and I was really surprised on how good and LOUD this little drivers could get.
> So... They are wonderfull drivers but they need a really beaffy amp.


----------



## Hernan

Thanks for your response.
With the marantz amp they could take a good amount of power. (They are at 0,5L sealed).
They get as loud as my home towers 2ways 4 ohms. 
With clean power they could get more than loud enought. They were HP around 300 and sound wonderfull.


----------



## Hernan

Hernan said:


> Thanks for your response.
> With the marantz amp they could take a good amount of power. (They are at 0,5L sealed).
> They get as loud as my home towers 2ways 4 ohms.
> With clean power they could get more than loud enought. They were HP around 300 and sound wonderfull.


Update. The drivers gone bad. So... use them with care


----------



## cleung

Hey guys,

I've been interested in these speakers for some time now and was wondering what everyones thoughts were on how they might sound mounted in my door? I think they would be a good fit into the factory location of my bmw 530i which happens to be in the middle of the door card and then a tweeter mounted in the factory location behind the side mirrors. I currently have a set of 4" utopias that I was going to put there but I think the utopias might be too deep.

I was also thinking of trying it as a 3 way set with my genesis 6.5" comp set, in my wifes murano? I would install them on the dash with the tweeter both firing off the windshield. Any thoughts?


----------



## cobra93

I have limited experience with the w3's. They definitely need a tweeter off axis.
I thought they sound fantastic on axis, but at high volume they got "edgy". I only had them high passed around 200 hertz, with about 30 watts rms on axis next to my a pillars. 
I'd love to use these as a bookshelf speaker with a low frequency high pass crossover instead. I began listening to the w3's in my computer room full range powered by an old panisonic head unit (~15 watts). I mounted them in 3" pvc end caps and they sound amazing and got quite loud on axis.
I preferred the fountek fr88's to the w3's, but that's just my opinion.
Hope that helps.


----------



## Hernan

The w3s are fantastic at the pillars...
but... I don't like midranges at the pillars.
For kicks they lack output.

I'm using the FR89s now, nice. The extra xmax seems to help (the MS8 makes everything easier). Anyway, these drivers have too low sensitivity for kickpanels installs. (I'm using a [email protected] bridged for these babies)
Not bad but a good 4 could beat them everyday at the kicks.

A bit OT but, what wonderfull drivers for home use, computer, small rooms, satelites in a small HT.

The W3 of a good home amp sounds awesome!


----------



## BurnOut956

anywhere to buy these cheap?


----------



## cobra93

BurnOut956 said:


> anywhere to buy these cheap?


PartsExpress.


----------



## BurnOut956

cobra93 said:


> PartsExpress.


Right now they are $38. I was just wondering if they are anywhere else cheaper. Thanks for your reply.


----------



## niceguy

Forum boners usually drive the prices up for awhile...not many options other than PE, trying to wait for prices to drop (long wait likely) or used...should be plenty still surfacing here and there...


----------



## cobra93

BurnOut956 said:


> Right now they are $38. I was just wondering if they are anywhere else cheaper. Thanks for your reply.


I got mine a while ago, 3 or 4 months maybe. 
I think they were around $25.00 a piece


----------



## BurnOut956

Guess I have to wait it out then. Thanks!


----------



## supersuk

I got some brand new in the box. These haven't seen any power yet. Ordered them, but went a different route. Bought some peerless HDS exclusive 4" mids to use instead. PM me with an offer if interested.


----------



## Fantaxp7

I'm sorry for this incredibly noob post but I was wondering a few things that you all might be able to answer about my setup. I originally had a set of tweeters and a mid-range in my doors. Now I have these Tangband full ranges point on axis molded into my pillars (which means at your ears as opposed to bouncing off the windshield correct?) and the mid ranges in my doors crossed at midbass range.

SO do I have this concept correct, the tangbands are my mid/tweet and my door the midbass? Almost as if it is a 3-way setup...I am feeding these each 100w active. Any suggestions as to what I should have the door speaker crossed at?

Here are my door speaker https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=147&products_id=8614

Thanks


----------



## cobra93

Fantaxp7 said:


> I'm sorry for this incredibly noob post but I was wondering a few things that you all might be able to answer about my setup. I originally had a set of tweeters and a mid-range in my doors. Now I have these Tangband full ranges point on axis molded into my pillars (which means at your ears as opposed to bouncing off the windshield correct?) and the mid ranges in my doors crossed at midbass range.
> 
> SO do I have this concept correct, the tangbands are my mid/tweet and my door the midbass? Almost as if it is a 3-way setup...I am feeding these each 100w active. Any suggestions as to what I should have the door speaker crossed at?
> 
> Here are my door speaker https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=147&products_id=8614
> 
> Thanks


I'd say you do. How do they sound to you?
I haven't heard the SB's. Do they blend well?
I assume you've got them crossed ~250-300hz.

I tried the w3's and the fr88's crossed ~250 hz. with some peerless sls's (6 1/2") but I couldn't get them to blend very well.
I was only able to raise the H.P. to 250hz and I only listened to them for ~2 hours, I'll continue to play with them.

I'm a noob as well, I hope you get some better advice from the more experienced people on here.


----------



## Fantaxp7

cobra93 said:


> I'd say you do. How do they sound to you?
> I haven't heard the SB's. Do they blend well?
> I assume you've got them crossed ~250-300hz.
> 
> I tried the w3's and the fr88's crossed ~250 hz. with some peerless sls's (6 1/2") but I couldn't get them to blend very well.
> I was only able to raise the H.P. to 250hz and I only listened to them for ~2 hours, I'll continue to play with them.
> 
> I'm a noob as well, I hope you get some better advice from the more experienced people on here.


They sound pretty good, at times really good. I should mention that I have a CarPC and I am currently using the onboard audio which is crap. I have just bought a good aftermarket sound card and haven't installed yet, so maybe this post was made too soon.

I had the settings on the first page originally, however I don't think that the SB's and the Tangbands ever really blended to well. Are there a common pair of 6.5 midrange/midbass speakers that people pair with these? I guess that is more of what I was curious about.


----------



## STSupDog

great info


----------



## cobra93

Fantaxp7 said:


> They sound pretty good, at times really good. I should mention that I have a CarPC and I am currently using the onboard audio which is crap. I have just bought a good aftermarket sound card and haven't installed yet, so maybe this post was made too soon.
> 
> I had the settings on the first page originally, however I don't think that the SB's and the Tangbands ever really blended to well. Are there a common pair of 6.5 midrange/midbass speakers that people pair with these? I guess that is more of what I was curious about.



I wish i could help you out with a suggestion, but I'm looking for a good combo myself.

Post back when you have the new sound card installed, if it made any difference. What card did you get?


----------



## DarkScorpion

I'm pairing mine with a set of H-Audio Ebony's. Mids are playing 80-350hz, and the TB's 350hz and up. I could probably go lower with the Ebony's, but I like how things sound right now; in fact, I think it sounds fantastic. I have the Ebony's in my door, sealed and deadened, while the TB's are in my dash pointed directly into the windshield and bouncing into the cabin. While some of the top end is lost, I really like the way this setup sounds. If it ever came down to it, I don't see myself building pods for the TB's to aim then on axis; I'd rather swap them out with other full range drivers. This is personal preference, however.


----------



## Fantaxp7

cobra93 said:


> I wish i could help you out with a suggestion, but I'm looking for a good combo myself.
> 
> Post back when you have the new sound card installed, if it made any difference. What card did you get?


Got myself an Asus Xonar DX PCI-E. I have it hooked up to my home theater receiver now and I am impressed with what it can do. Although I would never use it for my home theater as it doesn't support any new HD sound formats.



DarkScorpion said:


> I'm pairing mine with a set of H-Audio Ebony's. Mids are playing 80-350hz, and the TB's 350hz and up. I could probably go lower with the Ebony's, but I like how things sound right now; in fact, I think it sounds fantastic. I have the Ebony's in my door, sealed and deadened, while the TB's are in my dash pointed directly into the windshield and bouncing into the cabin. While some of the top end is lost, I really like the way this setup sounds. If it ever came down to it, I don't see myself building pods for the TB's to aim then on axis; I'd rather swap them out with other full range drivers. This is personal preference, however.


Thanks for the suggestion. Those look very nice and the reviews look good too.

I wonder how these would blend? http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-374


----------



## cobra93

DarkScorpion said:


> I'm pairing mine with a set of H-Audio Ebony's. Mids are playing 80-350hz, and the TB's 350hz and up. I could probably go lower with the Ebony's, but I like how things sound right now; in fact, I think it sounds fantastic. I have the Ebony's in my door, sealed and deadened, while the TB's are in my dash pointed directly into the windshield and bouncing into the cabin. While some of the top end is lost, I really like the way this setup sounds. If it ever came down to it, I don't see myself building pods for the TB's to aim then on axis; I'd rather swap them out with other full range drivers. This is personal preference, however.


I've heard great things about H-Audio products, but i have no way to actually hear them in person. I was following H-Audio's thread on this forum (new products), then I saw the prices. It's hard to spend that much cash for an unheard product.I'm glad you like the combo.


----------



## cobra93

Fantaxp7 said:


> Got myself an Asus Xonar DX PCI-E. I have it hooked up to my home theater receiver now and I am impressed with what it can do. Although I would never use it for my home theater as it doesn't support any new HD sound formats.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion. Those look very nice and the reviews look good too.
> 
> I wonder how these would blend? Dayton RS180-4 7" Reference Woofer 4 Ohm | Parts-Express.com


Asus, I have not heard/used Asus sound cards. I'm not sure, is that a creative built card for Asus or do they build their own? I have always went the creative route for sound cards. I'm using the X-fi fatality pro (I think) in my computer right now and it seems to do a good job.

Let us know if it makes a difference in your carputer.


----------



## Black05Hemi

I recently won meca state finals in california with the tang bands, modified class...fantastic speakers...Infact, I took them to three shows this year, and won all three...My tweets are scan speak illuminators and my midbass is peerless sls 6 1/2...

i've read this thread about crossing them at 315hz, but I cross them at 220 on the left side and 200 on the right...they fall off at 160hz in my truck, so don't see a problem


----------



## jcmorong

Any pics?


----------



## max506

I'm thinking of using the Tang Bands as a dedicated midrange in a 3-way full active front stage. I've already got a 2-way Diamond Audio Hex S600S installed. Would these blend well with the system? I've got a Pioneer P99RS as source and 2 JL A4300 to power the front stage. They're probably going in the pillars, in a slightly small enclosure as the 2K civics have small pillars.Your inputs would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## OSN

max506 said:


> I'm thinking of using the Tang Bands as a dedicated midrange in a 3-way full active front stage. I've already got a 2-way Diamond Audio Hex S600S installed. Would these blend well with the system? I've got a Pioneer P99RS as source and 2 JL A4300 to power the front stage. They're probably going in the pillars, in a slightly small enclosure as the 2K civics have small pillars.Your inputs would be greatly appreciated.


Well, one drawback of this approach is that these, as well as many widebanders, have very low efficiency. You really need to power them up to get good volume to match your other more efficient drivers (assuming). Also, how low do you plan to cross them over? With loads of power, they would need a high crossover point (315 w/ 24db slope is BARE MINIMUM) as they are severly xmax limited.


----------



## Black05Hemi

OSN said:


> With loads of power, they would need a high crossover point (315 w/ 24db slope is BARE MINIMUM) as they are severly xmax limited.


I'm not sure what you define as "loads of power", but I run mine off a Tru Steel S45, crossed at 220 and 200, and they sound great


----------



## OSN

Black05Hemi said:


> I'm not sure what you define as "loads of power", but I run mine off a Tru Steel S45, crossed at 220 and 200, and they sound great


Well, the difference in efficiency between this driver and your typical dedicated midrange dictates 2 to 4 times MORE power, and at 8 ohm, to match the same output. Also, distortion rises significantly below 350 Hz, so I am not really sure what 'sounds great' means to the rest of us.


----------



## Hernan

These W3 are very nice. They sound awesome out of the box.
They are small and very usable at the pillars. For kick panels installs they don't have the guts too keep up with a moderate output system.
I would not use them below 320/24.


----------



## unemployedconsumer

Black05Hemi said:


> I recently won meca state finals in california with the tang bands, modified class...fantastic speakers...Infact, I took them to three shows this year, and won all three...My tweets are scan speak illuminators and my midbass is peerless sls 6 1/2...
> 
> i've read this thread about crossing them at 315hz, but I cross them at 220 on the left side and 200 on the right...they fall off at 160hz in my truck, so don't see a problem


tang bands and scans in a-pillar? interested in where you have those crossed at as well if you don't mind.


----------



## max506

Thanks for the replies guys. My installer and I are still thinking of options for a dedicated midrange. I am kinda worried about the driver being 8 ohms as I'd like to be able to maximize my amps.


----------



## Black05Hemi

unemployedconsumer said:


> tang bands and scans in a-pillar? interested in where you have those crossed at as well if you don't mind.


custom speaker pods on the dash on axis...tang bands crossed on left side 220/24 playing to 3.2k/12, and 200/24 -3.2k/12 on the right side

I have these in my jeep too, and I tried crossing them at 200, and they don't like it...I think my pods in my truck let them play lower...In my jeep, they are off-axis in the stock locations in the corners of the dash, firing up towards the windshield


----------



## unemployedconsumer

Thanks Hemi, a set of the tangbands may be in my future to play around with.


----------



## Fantaxp7

cobra93 said:


> Asus, I have not heard/used Asus sound cards. I'm not sure, is that a creative built card for Asus or do they build their own? I have always went the creative route for sound cards. I'm using the X-fi fatality pro (I think) in my computer right now and it seems to do a good job.
> 
> Let us know if it makes a difference in your carputer.


Huge difference...I am surprised at just how much of a difference it makes. I hadn't read until recently how much people hate on-board audio. These Tang Band's sound like different speakers.

I just bought some 6.5" Tang Band W6-789E from snaimpolly (who is great to deal with!) and can't wait to pair them with my pillars! 

Here's some pics of my setup.


----------



## cobra93

I'm glad to hear the asus card sounds better.
Those a-pillars look fantastic.
Great job on the install.

I'm guessing the rear is vented into the a-pillar.


----------



## Fantaxp7

cobra93 said:


> I'm glad to hear the asus card sounds better.
> Those a-pillars look fantastic.
> Great job on the install.
> 
> I'm guessing the rear is vented into the a-pillar.


Thanks!

All I did was throw a handful of polyfil behind them after reading that the reviewer did.


----------



## cirodias

Good review!

congratz


----------



## NSTar

Where do I find these and how much does it cost? I tried searching but not sure if they are correct. I'd like to try these speakers in 3 way setup but need to house them.


----------



## captainobvious

max506 said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. My installer and I are still thinking of options for a dedicated midrange. I am kinda worried about the driver being 8 ohms as I'd like to be able to maximize my amps.


How much power do you have? 50-100 watts for these is more than enough. Make sure your installer does a sealed enclosure of about .75-1 liter, stuffed and you'll be good to go. Cross them over minimum 300hz @ -18db for moderate listening levels. If you like to listen loud, minimum should be 350hz @ -24db. Enjoy !


----------



## captainobvious

Black05Hemi said:


> custom speaker pods on the dash on axis...tang bands crossed on left side 220/24 playing to 3.2k/12, and 200/24 -3.2k/12 on the right side
> 
> I have these in my jeep too, and I tried crossing them at 200, and they don't like it...I think my pods in my truck let them play lower...In my jeep, they are off-axis in the stock locations in the corners of the dash, firing up towards the windshield



My guess is that the stock locations are not sealed and that would be why. With 0.5mm xmax and crossed that low, they will be cooked rather quickly from over excursion. If these are in an IB install, they need to be crossed over very high, like 450-500hz. They really should only be used in small sealed enclosures.


----------



## Black05Hemi

captainobvious said:


> How much power do you have? 50-100 watts for these is more than enough. Make sure your installer does a sealed enclosure of about .75-1 liter, stuffed and you'll be good to go. Cross them over minimum 300hz @ -18db for moderate listening levels. If you like to listen loud, minimum should be 350hz @ -24db. Enjoy !


and i'm going to say this again, I cross mine at 200hz @ 24db, and I crank it, and they sound wonderful...apparently, your particular install and vehicle will vary the appropriate crossover points


----------



## BigRed

Are u sure David?


----------



## m3gunner

NSTar said:


> Where do I find these and how much does it cost? I tried searching but not sure if they are correct. I'd like to try these speakers in 3 way setup but need to house them.


Hey, that's my mouse. 

Do you mean the clear round ball enclosures or the drivers?

The enclosures are Apple speakers that shipped with G4 iMac computers a *long* time ago. Basically, I just took out the Apple drivers, unseated the flat face and stuck the driver in there. I'm just about ready to silicone the drivers into the enclosure to try them out. I'll probably post up some "construction" pics one of these days.

The speakers are Tang Band W3-1364SA drivers. 

You can get them here:

Tang Band W3-1364SA 3" Bamboo Cone Driver | Parts-Express.com


----------



## cheebs

hey guys im ordering some w3 s tomorrow but i was wondering about a 6.5 to pair with it so far in this thread only one that comes up is the peerless sls6.5. are there any others i should look at. the 6.5s will be in the door pod sealed with ploy fill. the other choice would be the Exodus EX-Anarchy but if im not going to get a double in sq then i will stick to the sls. 45$ vs. 85$


----------



## OSN

cheebs said:


> hey guys im ordering some w3 s tomorrow but i was wondering about a 6.5 to pair with it so far in this thread only one that comes up is the peerless sls6.5. are there any others i should look at. the 6.5s will be in the door pod sealed with ploy fill.


midbass only? how much depth do you have to work with? Check out the Exodus Anarchys or TB 6" underhung mids.


----------



## cheebs

OSN said:


> midbass only? how much depth do you have to work with? Check out the Exodus Anarchys or TB 6" underhung mids.


the seas lotus ref. mids just fit so i don't think the tb underhung will fit and im not sure about the anarchys i think they are almost 93mm. deep. and im not sure what you mean by "midbass only" but it will be used as a mid ,midbass only. i have two 8" subs for my low end.


----------



## cobra93

I'm running 4 of the peerless sls's (830946) in my doors paired with fountek fr88's on the a-pillars and the sls's sound damn good.
The problem I have is the sls's sound so good they leave me wanting more, if that makes any sense to you.
I have not heard the anarchy's or the css sdx7's, but they could be worth looking into. 
Considering what the sls's cost, I'd say the sls is one hell of a driver.
However when they're pushed to hard you know it.
I do find myself driving around with my subs turned off because they have great output.
I'm running mine 180-45 hertz, 12db. slopes with ~ 100 watts per driver sealed .3 c.f. ( sundown sax 125.2).
The fr88's are 200 hertz and up,12db slope, on a jl 300/2.


----------



## cheebs

cobra93 said:


> I'm running 4 of the peerless sls's (830946) in my doors paired with fountek fr88's on the a-pillars and the sls's sound damn good.
> The problem I have is the sls's sound so good they leave me wanting more, if that makes any sense to you.
> I have not heard the anarchy's or the css sdx7's, but they could be worth looking into.
> Considering what the sls's cost, I'd say the sls is one hell of a driver.
> However when they're pushed to hard you know it.
> I do find myself driving around with my subs turned off because they have great output.
> I'm running mine 180-45 hertz, 12db. slopes with ~ 100 watts per driver sealed .3 c.f. ( sundown sax 125.2).
> The fr88's are 200 hertz and up,12db slope, on a jl 300/2.



what are we talking about when you say if the sls are pushed hard you know it.


----------



## thehatedguy

CSS SDX7


----------



## fish

cheebs said:


> what are we talking about when you say if the sls are pushed hard you know it.


He probably means they start to bottom out & sound stressed.


----------



## cobra93

Well I do like my bass and the sls allow me to have quite a bit of it up front which I love. I also like my music loud, but it has to stay clean as well. I'm playing the sls pretty low and loud. The sls's do get a little muddy/distorted when leaned on. 
I have two per door in .3 c.f. sealed enclosures, I didn't care for I.B. sound, to sloppy to me. 
I don't think the sls is very good above 500 hertz, I wouldn't want to go above 300 or so, but that's my perspective.
The sls's do play low notes very well, I was so impressed I shut my eclipse 88120 ti off for a long time. Four of these sls's shake the mirrors and cause more rattles then my sub.
I believe this is due to the higher frequencies they're playing.
For the money they're worth trying.
The CSS SDX7 and the Anarchy look very interesting, have more stroke and can be mated to a tweeter in a two way, or at least that's what I've read.

I tried to do as much reading as I could before buying a midbass, a few names kept popping up, Peerless, CSS, Dayton, TangBand and Exodus. I took a shot with the sls and I'm very happy with what they can do.
I hope that helps.


----------



## cheebs

cobra93 said:


> Well I do like my bass and the sls allow me to have quite a bit of it up front which I love. I also like my music loud, but it has to stay clean as well. I'm playing the sls pretty low and loud. The sls's do get a little muddy/distorted when leaned on.
> I have two per door in .3 c.f. sealed enclosures, I didn't care for I.B. sound, to sloppy to me.
> I don't think the sls is very good above 500 hertz, I wouldn't want to go above 300 or so, but that's my perspective.
> The sls's do play low notes very well, I was so impressed I shut my eclipse 88120 ti off for a long time. Four of these sls's shake the mirrors and cause more rattles then my sub.
> I believe this is due to the higher frequencies they're playing.
> For the money they're worth trying.
> The CSS SDX7 and the Anarchy look very interesting, have more stroke and can be mated to a tweeter in a two way, or at least that's what I've read.
> 
> I tried to do as much reading as I could before buying a midbass, a few names kept popping up, Peerless, CSS, Dayton, TangBand and Exodus. I took a shot with the sls and I'm very happy with what they can do.
> I hope that helps.


yeah i was doing the reading thing too thats how i can to this thread. i just ordered the tang w3 and the sls. i was just looking at a few more mids to see if there was anything else i could consider. but most of the other mids were ether much more money but not that much better or were too big to fit where i needed. most def thanks for the last push toward active.


----------



## cheebs

i have another question. my car has a space for the mid to be placed high on the door. its a 95 m3. would running it there be an issue? it would be higher than my arm rest and just in front of the steering wheel. i know i could try it. but i don't want to cut the hole out if someone has already tried it.


----------



## fish

Cobra93,

I'd love to see some pics of your doors & pillars if you have any available.


----------



## cheebs

fish said:


> Cobra93,
> 
> I'd love to see some pics of your doors & pillars if you have any available.


what he said :wideeyed:


----------



## thehatedguy

I was looking at the Anarchy and the SDX7. The $15 more for the SDX7 to get a tiny neo motor was really worth it IMO. I don't know if I would use them in a regular 2 way, but with the Bamboo 3s...damn, what a nice system you would have. The note, tone, and shear output of the SDX7 is pretty incredible used in such a system.


----------



## cheebs

thehatedguy said:


> I was looking at the Anarchy and the SDX7. The $15 more for the SDX7 to get a tiny neo motor was really worth it IMO. I don't know if I would use them in a regular 2 way, but with the Bamboo 3s...damn, what a nice system you would have. The note, tone, and shear output of the SDX7 is pretty incredible used in such a system.


i was thinking this too but i could not find anyone saying that the Anarchy and the SDX7 were that much better than the sls.


----------



## fish

thehatedguy said:


> I was looking at the Anarchy and the SDX7. The $15 more for the SDX7 to get a tiny neo motor was really worth it IMO. I don't know if I would use them in a regular 2 way, but with the Bamboo 3s...damn, what a nice system you would have. The note, tone, and shear output of the SDX7 is pretty incredible used in such a system.


Have you heard these in a few different vehicles?


----------



## thehatedguy

I haven't heard the SLS, but from 2nd hand accounts, they have a lot of balls but sound like little subs not midbasses. If that makes any sense to you I don't know. The SDX7 has output in spades and the speaker has no coloration to it...just the right tone and timbre of instruments. Crossed at 50 they'll make you think twice about wanting/needing a sub in front. The sound is seamless through out the bass and midbass.

Only heard the SDX7s in one car.


----------



## cobra93

Thanks for your opinion on the SDX7's.

Here's a couple of pics for you.
I was racing against the cold weather to finish this install, so it's a little funky.

The FR88's are mounted to the sail not the a-pillar, sealed and stuffed.




























The sealed door enclosures, yes they're steel, no you wouldn't know by listening.


----------



## RyanM923

Interesting door pods, you don't have any issues with the windows? Are those FR88's too bright being that close and on-axis?


----------



## sqoverspl

cobra93 said:


> Thanks for your opinion on the SDX7's.
> 
> Here's a couple of pics for you.
> I was racing against the cold weather to finish this install, so it's a little funky.
> 
> The FR88's are mounted to the sail not the a-pillar, sealed and stuffed.


Cool door pods! How do you like the sls sealed? Im about to switch to a single pair of 8's, four looks more fun though


----------



## cobra93

No issues with the windows, the step in the enclosure just clears the track.
It's open in the front with exception to the cash beam.

Here's a shot of the door.









The FR88's are ~15* off axis, both of them, to me.
I am boosting 12,500 and 16,000 hertz 2 db with a broad Q setting on the para-eq.
I don't find them bright at all.


----------



## cobra93

sqoverspl said:


> Cool door pods! How do you like the sls sealed? Im about to switch to a single pair of 8's, four looks more fun though


Thanks!
I like the sls's sealed much better, they're tighter and can handle more power, I think.
The thing is when I was testing this setup, ~4 hours a day for the better part of a few weeks, I had the sub/infrasonic filter turned down to ~ 20 hz. and they absolutely hammered low notes. I didn't want to destroy them when the sub is on so I raised it to ~45-50 hz. 
I normally have the sub off due to the way the eclipse AV8533 sends frequencies out to the speakers.
If the sub is off there's no x-over (high pass) non the sls's, but when the sub is turned on it has a 80 hz. or so high pass that can't be disabled, thhink of your home theater receiver. 
This head unit is so gone it's not funny..


----------



## sqoverspl

cobra93 said:


> Thanks!
> I like the sls's sealed much better, they're tighter and can handle more power, I think.
> The thing is when I was testing this setup, ~4 hours a day for the better part of a few weeks, I had the sub/infrasonic filter turned down to ~ 20 hz. and they absolutely hammered low notes. I didn't want to destroy them when the sub is on so I raised it to ~45-50 hz.
> I normally have the sub off due to the way the eclipse AV8533 sends frequencies out to the speakers.
> If the sub is off there's no x-over (high pass) non the sls's, but when the sub is turned on it has a 80 hz. or so high pass that can't be disabled, thhink of your home theater receiver.
> This head unit is so gone it's not funny..



Great, thats what I wanted to hear :laugh:! I cant wait to throw them in now. How high do you have them crossed?


----------



## cobra93

sqoverspl said:


> Great, thats what I wanted to hear :laugh:! I cant wait to throw them in now. How high do you have them crossed?


~45-180 hertz 12 db per octive slopes.
This seemed the best to me.
I don't think you'll be disappointed with them.

I'll have more time this spring to do some proper fiber glass work, look for some 10's or 12's to replace the 6-1/2's, the subs will be gone for as long as I keep the ranger.


----------



## sqoverspl

cobra93 said:


> ~45-180 hertz 12 db per octive slopes.
> This seemed the best to me.
> I don't think you'll be disappointed with them.
> 
> I'll have more time this spring to do some proper fiber glass work, look for some 10's or 12's to replace the 6-1/2's, the subs will be gone for as long as I keep the ranger.


oh no, my hu will only let the midbass cross at 630hz at the lowest, so that might be a little hard to work around. Do you mean 10 or 12 inch sls?


----------



## cobra93

sqoverspl said:


> oh no, my hu will only let the midbass cross at 630hz at the lowest, so that might be a little hard to work around. Do you mean 10 or 12 inch sls?


What about your amp crossover?

I may go with Aura sound ns-10, ns-12 or sls,xls or xxls not sure yet.
I'll keep looking til spring. 
I'll have to go IB or aperiodic instead though.


----------



## sqoverspl

cobra93 said:


> What about your amp crossover?
> 
> I may go with Aura sound ns-10, ns-12 or sls,xls or xxls not sure yet.
> I'll keep looking til spring.
> I'll have to go IB or aperiodic instead though.


If I cant get it to work with a little tuning then I can switch it with the sub output on the hu and itll cross as low as I want it to.


----------



## cheebs

got my tangs and sls6 before xmas and built my pods over the weekend between presents. i got them in today. much better sound better low end ' bigger stage very smooth with a punch. all of that i am have not gone active yet. i am running them off the seas crossover. i will get to going active sometime this well. heres some pics i still have to cover them but it will do.


----------



## cobra93

Install looks great! 
What is the x-over frequency on the passives?
I didn't like higher than ~300hz. on the sls's.
I think you'll be surprised when you get the x-over points more in range.
Now comes the fun part, tuning.


----------



## cheebs

cobra93 said:


> Install looks great!
> What is the x-over frequency on the passives?
> I didn't like higher than ~300hz. on the sls's.
> I think you'll be surprised when you get the x-over points more in range.
> Now comes the fun part, tuning.


thanks
figure its about 2500hz but it didn't sound very bad a lil muddy but not bad. so the tangs are playing about that now. so when i rewire. i think i will play with 315 to 450.


----------



## RyanM923

cheebs said:


> thanks
> figure its about 2500hz but it didn't sound very bad a lil muddy but not bad. so the tangs are playing about that now. so when i rewire. i think i will play with 315 to 450.


You'll notice a big difference when you change your crossover points, in a good way.


----------



## cobra93

cheebs said:


> thanks
> figure its about 2500hz but it didn't sound very bad a lil muddy but not bad. so the tangs are playing about that now. so when i rewire. i think i will play with 315 to 450.


If you think it sounds good now, wait til you get the x-overs points nailed down.
It should be as if you have a new system in your car.
I think you'll be shocked at the difference.


----------



## cheebs

cobra93 said:


> If you think it sounds good now, wait til you get the x-overs points nailed down.
> It should be as if you have a new system in your car.
> I think you'll be shocked at the difference.


i went active today... it sounds nice! had issues with the crossover points on the amp it seems that they are off big time so i played it by ear. i have to rework my door pods as the sls doesn't quite fit right. it does play low well. it hard to believe that 200$ in mids and woofers sound that much better than my hi dollar seas ref. set. but maybe it's the tangs work better in that car. maybe the seas are not for music that has a lot of heavy content(bass!). so off the seas go to da classifieds so i can try an active crossover and eq. to get a lil more adjustment.


----------



## cobra93

cheebs said:


> i went active today... it sounds nice! had issues with the crossover points on the amp it seems that they are off big time so i played it by ear. i have to rework my door pods as the sls doesn't quite fit right. it does play low well. it hard to believe that 200$ in mids and woofers sound that much better than my hi dollar seas ref. set. but maybe it's the tangs work better in that car. maybe the seas are not for music that has a lot of heavy content(bass!). so off the seas go to da classifieds so i can try an active crossover and eq. to get a lil more adjustment.


Depending on where you look, the sls's are called woofers and sub woofers.
They do sound great and get low very well, it's almost like cheating.
Do you have time alignment to work the imaging/staging with? If not try changing the phase on different drivers until you get the best image/stage you can.
Glad to hear you're enjoying your "budget" system.
I'll never go back to car audio drivers, when so much is possible for so much less $$$$.


----------



## cheebs

i have a few settings in the head unit. like theater, home stereo and studio. they never sound that good to me but ill try them tomorrow.


----------



## cobra93

cheebs said:


> i have a few settings in the head unit. like theater, home stereo and studio. they never sound that good to me but ill try them tomorrow.


Try reversing the phase of the drivers side w3 and see what happens to the image.
Only play the speakers you're changing the phase on at first to see what sounds best to you, then try the sls's by themselves.
Then you can try again with everything in the front playing and switch the phase if necessary.
Good luck!


----------



## thehatedguy

Cobra...those door enclosures are badassed! If I were to do door enclosures again, I would "borrow" a few of the ideas you used in your car.


----------



## RyanM923

cobra93 said:


> I'll never go back to car audio drivers, when so much is possible for so much less $$$$.


Same here.


----------



## cobra93

thehatedguy said:


> Cobra...those door enclosures are badassed! If I were to do door enclosures again, I would "borrow" a few of the ideas you used in your car.


Under no circumstances are you allowed to "borrow" ideas from me!!!!!! 

Unless you post pics when you're done!! :rockon:


----------



## cheebs

i think i have to redo my doors those sls are rattling everything. how good they(sls) work in the kick panels?


----------



## cobra93

I couldn't tell ya, but I'd think pretty good.
I liked them better small sealed than "door-baffled", is that a word?

They do move allot more air and cause allot more rattles then you thought they would, don't they.


----------



## sqoverspl

cheebs said:


> i think i have to redo my doors those sls are rattling everything. how good they(sls) work in the kick panels?


I just put mine in and they sound great, almost on axis and sealed in about .5 ft^3. Ill end up stuffing them too after I carpet them.


----------



## RyanM923

sqoverspl said:


> I just put mine in and they sound great, almost on axis and sealed in about .5 ft^3. Ill end up stuffing them too after I carpet them.


Pics of install?


----------



## sqoverspl

I only have one right now of the unfinished install and here it is. They look huge because I have them recessed and Im putting steel mesh and carpet over them


----------



## cheebs

whats the most power anyone has ran to the w3?


----------



## mlgreen

How do these compare with the Tang Band W3-1878? The 1878's cost more but they have a higher power handling rating and more excursion. But how do they compare sound wise?


----------



## Lanson

I'm actually curious of the difference between the W3-1364SA and the W3-1318SA


----------



## saMxp

Subscribing to this thread as I've just got the W3-1364SA installed in my car last week and really impressed with them so far. 
Playing from 400Hz up in a 0.38l PVC cup with 120watts (MA NX5) from a JBL MS8.


----------



## littlejuanito

Two questions:

- Will these sound ok running them off the HU?
- And if so, does the fact that these are 8 ohm make any difference?


----------



## cobra93

In the car with your windows up, I'd think they'd be decent.
You may be able to run them "bridged" off the deck, I'd do some research before I tried it though.

They got pretty loud driven by a panosonic deck I had tested them with on my computer table in the house.


----------



## jfrosty42

Has anyone tried these?

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8801


----------



## saMxp

jfrosty42 said:


> Has anyone tried these?
> 
> https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8801


Those look awful interesting!


----------



## jfrosty42

jfrosty42 said:


> Has anyone tried these?
> 
> https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8801


or these?

Tang Band W3-1053SC 3" Full Range Driver

 I've been contemplating trying the fullranges out in a 2way +sub... Trying to figure out what my best option is. These ones are almost 1/4 the cost of the bamboos!


----------



## Lanson

jfrosty42 said:


> or these?
> 
> Tang Band W3-1053SC 3" Full Range Driver
> 
> I've been contemplating trying the fullranges out in a 2way +sub... Trying to figure out what my best option is. These ones are almost 1/4 the cost of the bamboos!


As are the well reviewed Peerless drivers.


----------



## cheebs

there is this post about the audible physics ar3 vs the tang band w3-1878.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ar3k-vs-tangband-w3-1878-a-4.html#post1323718

i heard the w3-1878 and they don't sound as good as the w3-1364sa. why wouldn't they use the tang band that sounds better to test against?


----------



## fish

cheebs
i heard the w3-1878 and they don't sound as good as the w3-1364sa. why wouldn't they use the tang band that sounds better to test against?[/QUOTE said:


> I'd guess probably because there's already been so many people that's tried & reviewed it that Dock wanted to try something different (different for sure) & interesting. But, I do get your point about comparing to a driver that's tried & true.


----------



## cheebs

see i want to get the ar3 and i have the w3-1364as but to spend the money the ar3 has to be worth it. we're talking a few hundred dollars here. is it that much better?


----------



## WLDock

cheebs said:


> there is this post about the audible physics ar3 vs the tang band w3-1878.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ar3k-vs-tangband-w3-1878-a-4.html#post1323718
> *
> "i heard the w3-1878 and they don't sound as good as the w3-1364sa. why wouldn't they use the tang band that sounds better to test against?"*





fish said:


> I'd guess probably because there's already been so many people that's tried & reviewed it that Dock wanted to try something different (different for sure) & interesting. But, I do get your point about comparing to a driver that's tried & true.


Huh??? I am a bit confused by cheebs question? Where did you hear the W3-1878? Where is your W3-1878 vs. W3-1364SA listening test/review on this forum? Very few have heard them as these have been limited in inventory. You ask the question as if feedback and characteristics about the W3-1878 is common knowledge. Huh? I/Me/Myself decided to listed to drivers that I have never heard before....you want something different? Go listen for yourself and post up your findings or send me the drivers you want ME to listen to and compare! maybe Mark will have some of the Mag cone AR's in and will send me a set to listen to?

Further reasons why I decided to try out the W3-1878:

1) There are very few reviews around the net on the *TANG BAND W3-1878*: 

_____ http://www.audioheuristics.org/markk_wp/?p=157
_____ http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...gs/70476-haakons-vw-lupo-3l-tdi-2000-mod.html
_____ http://forums.nzicemag.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=26275&p=432822
_____ http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/88787-tabaq-tl-tang-band-21.html
_____ http://72.9.35.76/showthread.php?p=1684815
_____ http://translate.google.com/transla...-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1220&bih=852&prmd=ivnsfd
_____ http://translate.google.com/transla...-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1900&bih=895&prmd=ivnsfd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkCW1grjZlg
2.) From what I have seen the drivers was only available in short supply for a very short time from Parts Express and Solen.Ca. The driver was on back order like forever then they got a small amount in at the end of last year and since the driver will be *on back order until 6/30/2011!* The set I picked up was the very last set in stock @ Solen.ca...they are on back order there as well.
*3) The W3-1878 was a new product from Tang Band and on paper seems like a nicer driver than the W3-1364SA:*


*Tang Band W3-1878 * -$64.05 @ Parts Express
*Overview *
The Tang Band W3-1878 full-range driver features an underhung neodymium motor design that provides extended, linear response while reducing 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion.

*Highlights *
• Full-range capability
• Underhung voice coil
• Neodymium magnet structure
• Extremely low harmonic distortion
• Bamboo fiber paper cone
• Durable foam rubber surround
• Unique aluminum phase plug 

*Specifications:*
• Power handling: 12 watts RMS/25 watts max • VCdia: 3/4" • Impedance: 8 ohms • Re: 6.5 ohms • Frequency range: 75-20,000 Hz • Fs: 75 Hz • SPL: 88 dB 1W/1m • Vas: 0.11 cu. ft. • Qms: 1.67 • Qes: 0.34 • Qts: 0.28 • Xmax: 4.2 mm • Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 3.66", Cutout Diameter: 2.97", Mounting Depth: 2.54".
























*VS.*

*Tang Band W3-1364SA* - $38.64 @Parts Express
Another Tang Band first, Bamboo fiber cones! A blend of paper and Bamboo fibers provides a perfect combination of light weight and self-damping. A neodymium motor with a copper ring reduces distortion even further. The result of these features is a smooth frequency response with a very natural, open sound.

Specifications: • Power handling: 12 watts RMS/25 watts max • VCdia: 3/4" • Impedance: 8 ohms • Re: 6.6 ohms • Frequency range: 105-20,000 Hz • Fs: 105 Hz • SPL: 86 dB 1W/1m • Vas: 0.07 cu. ft. • Qms: 2.48 • Qes: 0.77 • Qts: 0.59 • Xmax: 0.5 mm • Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 3-5/8", Cutout Diameter: 3", Mounting Depth: 2".























I picked up the W3-1878 based on the specs alone as it seemed to be one of the better speced fullrange 3" drivers around under $100 each. I had not heard the driver and I was originally just going to run the Scan Discovery 10F but I have yet to hear that driver either... nor had I heard the Audible Physics drivers so we ran the listening tests to see what these fullrange drivers were all about. *The W3-1878 was a very nice sounding driver*....*it just did not have enough top end extention to satisfy the listening group as a stand alone fullrange driver.* I still plan to use the W3-1878 with a small neo tweeter as I think it is a good sounding midrange that will allow me to crossover in the 6kHz-8Khz range...in effect keeping most of the critical voice/sensitive frequencies at the midrange driver.


----------



## cheebs

WLDock said:


> Huh??? I am a bit confused by cheebs question? Where did you hear the W3-1878? Very few have heard them as these have been limited in inventory. You ask the question as if feedback and characteristics about the W3-1878 is common knowledge. Huh?
> 
> 1) There are very few reviews around the net on the *TANG BAND W3-1878*:
> 
> _____ W3-1878 FR curves | Audioheuristics
> _____ http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...gs/70476-haakons-vw-lupo-3l-tdi-2000-mod.html
> _____ NZ ICE Magazine » View topic - 3 to 4 inch full range driver shoot out
> _____ TABAQ TL for Tang Band - Page 21 - diyAudio
> _____ A TB 'big-dog' has arrived.... - Page 2 - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com
> _____ Google Translate
> _____ Google Translate
> YouTube - ‪Cyburgs Needle TB W3 1878 edition‬‏
> 2.) From what I have seen the drivers was only available in short supply for a very short time from Parts Express and Solen.Ca. The driver was on back order like forever then they got a small amount in at the end of last year and since the driver will be *on back order until 6/30/2011!* The set I picked up was the very last set in stock @ Solen.ca...they are on back order there as well.
> 3) The W3-1878 was a new product from Tang Band and on paper seems like a nicer driver than the W3-1364SA:
> 
> *Tang Band W3-1878 * -$64.05 @ Parts Express
> *Overview *
> The Tang Band W3-1878 full-range driver features an underhung neodymium motor design that provides extended, linear response while reducing 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion.
> 
> *Highlights *
> • Full-range capability
> • Underhung voice coil
> • Neodymium magnet structure
> • Extremely low harmonic distortion
> • Bamboo fiber paper cone
> • Durable foam rubber surround
> • Unique aluminum phase plug
> 
> *Specifications:*
> • Power handling: 12 watts RMS/25 watts max • VCdia: 3/4" • Impedance: 8 ohms • Re: 6.5 ohms • Frequency range: 75-20,000 Hz • Fs: 75 Hz • SPL: 88 dB 1W/1m • Vas: 0.11 cu. ft. • Qms: 1.67 • Qes: 0.34 • Qts: 0.28 • Xmax: 4.2 mm • Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 3.66", Cutout Diameter: 2.97", Mounting Depth: 2.54".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *VS.*
> 
> *Tang Band W3-1364SA* - $38.64 @Parts Express
> Another Tang Band first, Bamboo fiber cones! A blend of paper and Bamboo fibers provides a perfect combination of light weight and self-damping. A neodymium motor with a copper ring reduces distortion even further. The result of these features is a smooth frequency response with a very natural, open sound.
> 
> Specifications: • Power handling: 12 watts RMS/25 watts max • VCdia: 3/4" • Impedance: 8 ohms • Re: 6.6 ohms • Frequency range: 105-20,000 Hz • Fs: 105 Hz • SPL: 86 dB 1W/1m • Vas: 0.07 cu. ft. • Qms: 2.48 • Qes: 0.77 • Qts: 0.59 • Xmax: 0.5 mm • Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 3-5/8", Cutout Diameter: 3", Mounting Depth: 2".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I picked up the W3-1878 based on the specs alone as it seemed to be one of the better speced fullrange 3" drivers around. I had not heard the driver nor had I heard the Audible Physics drivers so we ran the listening tests to see what these fullrange drivers were all about. The W3-1878 was a very nice sounding driver....it just did not have enough top end extention to satisfy the listening group as a stand alone fullrange driver. I still plan to use the W3-1878 with a small neo tweeter as I think it is a good sounding midrange that will allow me to crossover in the 6kHz-8Khz range...in effect keeping most of the critical voice/sensitive frequencies at the midrange driver.


you are being a lil touchy don't you think.
i did not ask for a review of the W3-1364SA i own them and use them.
i brought the two tangs we are talking about along with the fr88 to try. when i first joined the board. from what i had read the w3-1364sa and the fr88 were the fullranges that were cheap and good. when i went to order the w3-1364sa i saw the W3-1878 and thought that they look better in my install and from what i could see had better power handling. so i got them. 

with that being said the way i saw your review was that the ar3 the heavyweight was in the ring with a middleweight W3-1878. and like you said not many people have heard the W3-1878 and it is hard to gasp the comparison of the two drivers most of us have never used. im not knocking what you did because i have heard the W3-1878 so i was able to follow you a lil. what i was getting at and i wanted to see if anyone else was thinking the same way in wanting to hear ar3 go against a driver that most people looking into or using. i think that is a fair question.


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## WLDock

cheebs said:


> you are being a lil touchy don't you think.


No, because I would bet that you are one of only a few on this forum that have heard the W3-1878 and the W3-1364SA and presume that everyone else has heard both drivers. I could say the same thing about you...that you were being a bit touchy because you are considering the AR drivers and already have the W3-1364 and are bummed that we did not compare the two drivers. Sorry man....I have been told that i am sensitive......however, if I actually owned the AR drivers I would send them to you so you could test them yourself....that is the type of guy that I am...I have sent out several sets for others to test before.



cheebs said:


> When i went to order the w3-1364sa i saw the W3-1878 and thought that they look better in my install and from what i could see had better power handling. so i got them.


 Now you see why I bought the W3-1878....for the same reason that you did....because they looked better on paper!



cheebs said:


> With that being said the way i saw your review was that the ar3 the heavyweight was in the ring with a middleweight W3-1878


Well, the review was done by member MANISH but I added comments in the post. I don't know if I would lable the drivers that way. The AR simply had more top end. The TB had less top end BUT was a full sounding driver with very good midrange qualities and detail...with the Hertz amp...all agreed that the drivers sounded very close on vocals....all may have even liked the TB a bit better just based on midrange.



cheebs said:


> And like you said not many people have heard the W3-1878 and it is hard to gasp the comparison of the two drivers most of us have never used. im not knocking what you did because i have heard the W3-1878 so i was able to follow you a lil. what i was getting at and i wanted to see if anyone else was thinking the same way in wanting to hear ar3 go against a driver that most people looking into or using. I think that is a fair question.


 Well, I think you forgot that we did have a reference system on hand as well....and the whole point of the listening was to simply kick back, dim the lights, open some brewski and see if we could live with fullrange drivers in lieu of a two-way up top.

-Myself, was considering the AR drivers to simplify my current 4-way design plans.
-Manish(Eric) - Was considering the AR drivers to simplify his current 4-way design
-2Deep2 (Anthony) - Wanted to see how the AR and TB driver performed and what the fullrange hype was all about. He has listened to tons of car and home systems and is to begin the rebuild of his Focal Be mid/tweet, SEAS Nextel front stage.

So, if you really listened to the W3-1878's as we did I am sure you will agree that they have nice midrange qualities but lack a lot of top end. We all can see from this DIY site that the driver measures nice: http://www.audioheuristics.org/markk_wp/?p=157
Also, IMO I think the drivers will perform better on the lower end in a small sealed enclosure. Having never heard the W3-1364SA but from the graphs I would bet the AR's have more top end then those also....but the price difference is huge.


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## cheebs

WLDock said:


> No, because I would bet that you are one of only a few on this forum that have heard the W3-1878 and the W3-1364SA and presume that everyone else has heard both drivers.


no i was saying like you said that not may people would have heard the 1878. and thats the first part of the my point people that are looking to move toward the ar3 but don't have the money to get a set will not understand the comparison. 



WLDock;So said:


> this is the second part the 1364sa has the missing top end the 1878 does not. i didn't feel that you guys said anything wrong but i heard like you did the 1878 is a nice mid. so because i heard both i only wonder if the 1364as would be a better suited comparison based on the fact that ar3 is being used in tweeterless systems.


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## malutki

OT: great thread, i wil also use a TB for mz fornt system


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## captainobvious

WLDock said:


> Huh??? I am a bit confused by cheebs question? Where did you hear the W3-1878? Where is your W3-1878 vs. W3-1364SA listening test/review on this forum? Very few have heard them as these have been limited in inventory. You ask the question as if feedback and characteristics about the W3-1878 is common knowledge. Huh? I/Me/Myself decided to listed to drivers that I have never heard before....you want something different? Go listen for yourself and post up your findings or send me the drivers you want ME to listen to and compare! maybe Mark will have some of the Mag cone AR's in and will send me a set to listen to?
> 
> 
> I picked up the W3-1878 based on the specs alone as it seemed to be one of the better speced fullrange 3" drivers around under $100 each. I had not heard the driver and I was originally just going to run the Scan Discovery 10F but I have yet to hear that driver either... nor had I heard the Audible Physics drivers so we ran the listening tests to see what these fullrange drivers were all about. *The W3-1878 was a very nice sounding driver*....*it just did not have enough top end extention to satisfy the listening group as a stand alone fullrange driver.* I still plan to use the W3-1878 with a small neo tweeter as I think it is a good sounding midrange that will allow me to crossover in the 6kHz-8Khz range...in effect keeping most of the critical voice/sensitive frequencies at the midrange driver.



Thanks for this post, very interesting. It does spec fairly nicely as well. Although, I would say for the range used (if you're not going below 300hz, and using a steep filter), they are probably at least fairly comparable. Distortion levels seem pretty close throughout their ranges. What I find interesting is that the 1878 has about as much or more distortion below 300hz as the 1364SA, so the extra excursion doesnt seem to be a benefit in that area. I also see that the 1878 rolls off slightly from 10k-20K whereas the 1364SA peaks a bit up there which may contribute to it having a more full sounding high frequency response. I'd like to hear these side by side sometime though as the data doesnt always mean that you'd prefer one over the other when listening to them.


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## Ultimateherts

As much as I liked my Mark Audio Alpairs when I ran them, I know that there are much better full range drivers out there. I think a lot of what people spend (including myself) on audio is too much money. From a price point I don't see how anyone can knock the Tang bands. Heck if they did do the job that would the best car audio investment ever! 

I think a lot of it has to do people and their expectations which are unrealistic. You have to look at it for what it is. Is it going to replace a tweeter? Hell no I'll admit to that, but what fullrange speakers do very well is cover enough of the frequency range where for some the hastle of going 3way is just too much.


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## xdrixn

I just picked up a pair of these myself and I was hoping someone could recommend a worthy amp? I saw a xtant404m on ebay went above what I would care to spend which 100 bucks. Happy to go used.

thanks gentleman


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## saMxp

Doesn't take much for them to play with some volume. Which is good, since they aren't going to be able take a whole lot of power. I'm using a Massive Audio NX5 (120w/ch) and it does very well.


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## xdrixn

That's still a bit overkill yeah?


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## saMxp

xdrixn said:


> That's still a bit overkill yeah?


Just a bit, truthfully. You don't want to run an amplifier at its limits. Few behave very well when pushed to their rated limits. I generally like to have double the drivers rated limit, in reserve. Some take this much, much further, although I believe that if an amplifier isn't behaving properly at 10-20% of its limit, then it won't behave at all.


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## xdrixn

Got it, I now see 100 isn't going to cut it.


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## slade1274

Yes, it will


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## saMxp

slade1274 said:


> Yes, it will


Agreed. The Tang Band W3-1364SA is rated at 12w RMS (full range) but can handle a good bit more power when crossed over at around 300-400Hz. Even if this limit rises to 50w, the 100w should be plenty for this driver.


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## xdrixn

slade1274 said:


> Yes, it will


Sorry, i meant 100 bucks.


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## sweefu

jfrosty42 said:


> Has anyone tried these?
> 
> https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8801


I looked into this driver, but the voice coil inductance is 0.42mH, versus 0.002mH of the W3-1364s. This could harm the speaker's ability to play up high, I originally was not interested by the W3-1364s because of the sensitivity / xmax, but after finding the Le is so low, it is a good wideband candidate. I have only recently realised the importance of considering the voice coil inductance, after all, what does an inductor do in a passive cross over?

I am going to buy the w3-1364s and the Fountek FR88ex and try them as a 2-way with an 8" Peerless midbass (technically sub). I have read that people don't like the 6.5" SLS above 250hz or so, I'm not sure why, I will be using the 8" and in my car door it models very well up past 500hz. 

I know this is an old-ish thread and the driver I quote was posted over 2 years ago, but thought it would be good to add none the less.

In Australia both the W3-1364s and the FR88EX cost $45each before postage, I am seeing what results I can achieve using a wideband <$100/pair cost in a 2-way car setup. I will mount the wideband on my dash in spherical enclosures which should give me a smooth response down to 300hz - 350hz - the magic volume seems to be between 0.5litre and 0.8litre (modelling on Bass Box Pro)

Anyway, great thread, thought I'd bump it up and add some more information.

Cheers.


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## saMxp

Interested to read your impressions on the Fountek FR88ex versus the bamboo Tang Bands. I have been running for the w3-1364's for two years now and still find that they surprise and delight when I push the happy dial to ten =D
I'll be interested to see your spherical enclosure setup/orientation, too. Post pics when done!


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## sweefu

saMxp said:


> Interested to read your impressions on the Fountek FR88ex versus the bamboo Tang Bands. I have been running for the w3-1364's for two years now and still find that they surprise and delight when I push the happy dial to ten =D
> I'll be interested to see your spherical enclosure setup/orientation, too. Post pics when done!


I will be interested too, I am ordering drivers in 2 weeks, then go from there. I will take measurements of the drivers in a few different configurations in my house and then in my car. 
How are you running your W3-1364?
Pictures will be posted!


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## slade1274

I can say I still remember fondly my experience with the W3 in the WRX.... They work well as you have applied them


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## saMxp

sweefu said:


> I will be interested too, I am ordering drivers in 2 weeks, then go from there. I will take measurements of the drivers in a few different configurations in my house and then in my car.
> How are you running your W3-1364?
> Pictures will be posted!


Check out my install thread for pics:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ting-over-2011-subaru-wrx-5-door-install.html
I used PVC endcaps for enclosures. Volume is about 0.3l and they ended up pretty far off axis. I have another set of a-pillars to rebuild them more on-axis, but they sound great now so it just hasn't been a priority. Also, thought about hooking up the factory tweeters to extra channels on the JBL MS-8 but I prefer a softer top end and the MS-8 did a good job at eq-ing in the top end so I'm real happy. 
I have them crossed over at 350Hz, which is fine 95% of the time when I listen to it at moderately loud volume levels. But when I push it harder, some vocals and larger string instruments cause the W3's to strain. 
For the money, though, I can't justify the type of expenditure it would take to go after that remaining 5%.


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## Fantaxp7

Damn...I'm missing mine now too haha.

Left them in my car when I sold it....


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## aktill

Here's an installation option for those wanting spherical enclosures. I used a couple of aluminum Ikea bowls joined with a thin MDF gasket, then filled with clay. Ran out of time before the cold weather set in or would have finished them with grills.

Not unhappy, but not blown away. Image decently on-axis, though I don't have a huge range of experience to compare with. Leaving these in the car, but going to go to a dome mid and tweet in my truck to avoid having to do sealed enclosures next time.


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## captainobvious

sweefu said:


> I looked into this driver, but the voice coil inductance is 0.42mH, versus 0.002mH of the W3-1364s. This could harm the speaker's ability to play up high, I originally was not interested by the W3-1364s because of the sensitivity / xmax, but after finding the Le is so low, it is a good wideband candidate. I have only recently realised the importance of considering the voice coil inductance, after all, what does an inductor do in a passive cross over?
> 
> I am going to buy the w3-1364s and the Fountek FR88ex and try them as a 2-way with an 8" Peerless midbass (technically sub). I have read that people don't like the 6.5" SLS above 250hz or so, I'm not sure why, I will be using the 8" and in my car door it models very well up past 500hz.
> 
> I know this is an old-ish thread and the driver I quote was posted over 2 years ago, but thought it would be good to add none the less.
> 
> In Australia both the W3-1364s and the FR88EX cost $45each before postage, I am seeing what results I can achieve using a wideband <$100/pair cost in a 2-way car setup. I will mount the wideband on my dash in spherical enclosures which should give me a smooth response down to 300hz - 350hz - the magic volume seems to be between 0.5litre and 0.8litre (modelling on Bass Box Pro)
> 
> Anyway, great thread, thought I'd bump it up and add some more information.
> 
> Cheers.


Keep in mind that the 1364SA has significantly rising distortionfrom 300hz down. You'll want to cross it over higher than that to stay out of that range. I've compared the FR88EX and the TB bamboos. I felt the Tang Bands sounded a litle more natural to me with their bamboo/paper cones. You'll need a very small sealed enclosure for them. 0.5-0.75 liters should be good.
As for the Peerless SLS, if you do the 8", you'll want to keep it crossed at about 300hz or less with a steep slope. They are pretty nasty much higher than that (very shouty and bad breakup).

Good luck !

EDIT: Also, the further you get these off axis, you're going to notice a very significant roll off in upper frequency response. If you want to go tweeter-less, I'd keep them as close to on-axis as possible.


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