# Focal KRX3 midrange disapointment



## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

so I'm utterly disappointed with the level of output from the focal KRX3 3" midrange driver. When purchasing this set, I expected the 3" midrange to be the star of the show, but it doesn't really shine...

For the amount of money this set cost me I expected more.

On the positive side I'm thrilled with the tweeter and the 6.5" is pretty beefy.

I need to change up my setup. I was thinking of doing one of several things to improve the response from about 200hz up to 5.5-6khz.

Two options concerning quasi-active 4-way - Run the 3" midrange and tweeter passive and cross them over high-pass at 5khz, then either of these: use the focal 6.5" as a mid-range driver to cover 200hz-5.5khz and get 8" woofers to cover 60-200hz
OR more conservatively I could get a 4" or 5.25" midrange to cover about 250- 5khz, and run the focal 6.5" drivers from 250 on down to about 70hz 

I also thought about simply removing the focal 3" midrange altogether, but I spent an awful lot of money on this set so I'm trying to think of ways to incorporate all three of the speakers. If using the 3" midrange is going to present problems for my front stage I'll try to find another use for them or sell them.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

quick add-on:

I have a memphis 3-way active crossover and two front-stage amps:

Alpine PDX 150.4 and a realm audio 600.2

The realm amp does 150x2 rms @ 4 ohms, 300x2 @ 2 ohms, 600x1 @ 4 ohms - I'm using it to drive the focal 6.5" midbass right now, obviously the gains are turned WAY down. 

I have quite a bit of headroom with the amount of power I have on tap - if I actually use every available watt it's 1200wrms for a front stage.


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## Fast1one (Apr 6, 2007)

Run active and your problems you'll be solved provided you can tune it correctly. This isn't a midrange issue, its a level issue which can be solved if you can adjust the levels of all the speakers.

A simple trick can be adding L-pads to the tweeters to attenuate to taste. This won't solve the efficiency advantage of the midbass, but it should remove the edgy sound caused by a hot tweeter. This is a very cheap solution and may be all you need. You can also add L-pads to the woofers, but padding down woofers is something you never really want to do as you want all the power you can get for midbass and sub frequencies.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Fast1one said:


> Run active and your problems you'll be solved provided you can tune it correctly. This isn't a midrange issue, its a level issue which can be solved if you can adjust the levels of all the speakers.
> 
> A simple trick can be adding L-pads to the tweeters to attenuate to taste. This won't solve the efficiency advantage of the midbass, but it should remove the edgy sound caused by a hot tweeter. This is a very cheap solution and may be all you need. You can also add L-pads to the woofers, but padding down woofers is something you never really want to do as you want all the power you can get for midbass and sub frequencies.


I'm running 3-way active already. The problem is that if I turn the midrange drivers up any more than they already are they start distorting. I have them crossed at 300hz and they STILL don't like it when I crank it up. 

I have no problem with the tweeters - they sound exactly the way I want them to sound currently. 

I'm running the tweeters and midranges off an alpine pdx 150.4 - that's 150wrms to each speaker, so I have the gains set very low.
I'm running the realm audio 600.2 to the 6.5" midbass woofers, gains also set very low.


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## Fast1one (Apr 6, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> I'm running 3-way active already. The problem is that if I turn the midrange drivers up any more than they already are they start distorting. I have them crossed at 300hz and they STILL don't like it when I crank it up.
> 
> I have no problem with the tweeters - they sound exactly the way I want them to sound currently.
> 
> ...


Im sorry I misunderstood you. 

Can you describe the distortion? Is it caused by over excursion of the midrange or does it simply sound compressed and lacks dynamics? The former is caused by too low of a crossover point and/or an inadequate enclosure, while the latter not enough power (which I really doubt, unless the midrange is very insensitive. 

Have you tried raising the high pass for the midrange? A 3 inch not being able to reproduce 300hz is highly disturbing to me, but I guess you can try raising it see if it helps. How is it installed? Sealed? IB?

Are you sure you aren't pushing them TOO loud? Hearing loss is a real thing and I would be very careful that you aren't exposing yourself to dangerous levels.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Also are you sure your not over powering KRX3's a bit. What are the levels set at on the Crossover, What, if any EQ'ing are you using. Also how are they installed and where?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Fast1one said:


> Im sorry I misunderstood you.
> 
> Can you describe the distortion? Is it caused by over excursion of the midrange or does it simply sound compressed and lacks dynamics? The former is caused by too low of a crossover point and/or an inadequate enclosure, while the latter not enough power (which I really doubt, unless the midrange is very insensitive.


When I crank it they begin to sound inaccurate and sloppy. I don't know if I have the proper vernacular... They basically lose accuracy and detail and sound like crap. They extremely strained and resonant at certain frequencies and flat on others.



Fast1one said:


> Have you tried raising the high pass for the midrange? A 3 inch not being able to reproduce 300hz is highly disturbing to me, but I guess you can try raising it see if it helps. How is it installed? Sealed? IB?


They're in the plastic enclosures included with the set and mounted in the corners of my dash. I spread a thin (maybe 1/8") layer of clay on the inside of the back wall of the enclosures to help damp them. This is temporary until I can get door pods planned out so the entire set can be mounted in the doors.



Fast1one said:


> Are you sure you aren't pushing them TOO loud? Hearing loss is a real thing and I would be very careful that you aren't exposing yourself to dangerous levels.


I'm not sure what the objective threshold is for "too" loud, but my subjective criteria is the tingle in my ears 

If, after listening at high levels, I feel tingling in my ears, then that's "too" loud.

This set has not produced that response, so for me it's not "too" loud.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Read above post first, then response to this one, specifically the install area - dash corners in the focal-made pods.



Here-I-Come said:


> Also are you sure your not over powering KRX3's a bit. What are the levels set at on the Crossover, What, if any EQ'ing are you using. Also how are they installed and where?


I'm absolutely overpowering this set. I have my gains turned way down, so they're not actually seeing all the available power, but they have plenty on tap. Intuitively, distortion and sound pressure level should have a linear correlation, but - as I understand it - you're suggesting that overpowering the speakers can cause this correlation to fail, and the speakers to distort at a lower level of db.

For EQ I'm using the 7-band PEQ on an eclipse CD5000 H/U. 

To be more specific about my goal:
I'd like to play some really intense rock, with heavy power chords, and play it at extreme output levels. I want the mids to sound full, powerful, forceful, and the whole time remain unrelentingly accurate.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> For the amount of money this set cost me I expected more..





bd5034 said:


> I need to change up my setup. I was thinking of doing one of several things to improve the response from about 200hz up to 5.5-6khz.
> Two options concerning quasi-active 4-way - Run the 3" midrange and tweeter passive and cross them over high-pass at 5khz, then either of these: use the focal 6.5" as a mid-range driver to cover 200hz-5.5khz and get 8" woofers to cover 60-200hz
> OR more conservatively I could get a 4" or 5.25" midrange to cover about 250- 5khz, and run the focal 6.5" drivers from 250 on down to about 70hz
> I also thought about simply removing the focal 3" midrange altogether, but I spent an awful lot of money on this set so I'm trying to think of ways to incorporate all three of the speakers. If using the 3" midrange is going to present problems for my front stage I'll try to find another use for them or sell them


 Again, I don't know how you have that KRX3 mounted...You have yet to state that...is it in a proper enclosure? Anyway, Again as I stated in your previous post, I thought larger drivers might be a better bet for you. 8's in the doors with a 5 1/4" in the kicks or something to that matter. I really think the Focal prodducts are nice but it seems you were quick with the credit card and now you are quick with the install and conclusions about the drivers. How much time have you spent on the install and tuning?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

WLDock said:


> Again, I don't know how you have that KRX3 mounted...You have yet to state that...is it in a proper enclosure? Anyway, Again as I stated in your previous post, I thought larger drivers might be a better bet for you. 8's in the doors with a 5 1/4" in the kicks or something to that matter. I really think the Focal prodducts are nice but it seems you were quick with the credit card and now you are quick with the install and conclusions about the drivers. How much time have you spent on the install and tuning?


I said it twice already!!!!

lol  The midranges are in the focal-supplied pods that come with the set - they're made of plastic and I damped the inside with a thin layer of clay. 

I talked to orca (focal's distributor / tech support) and they said those pods are precisely the right size for those midranges. I guess I have to trust them on that. 

The tweeters are also in these pods, and the 6.5" drivers are in my doors - they're mounted on MDF plates and have clay on the door behind them and several layers of dynamat extreme around the install area and two layers covering (almost entirely sealing) the door.

I was indeed quick with the credit card. I was hoping to avoid cutting my doors, so this set was the best route I could think of while still retaining my stock door skins. It appears that I'm not going to be happy unless I cut the doors anyway so I've accepted it as an inevitability now.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

> They basically lose accuracy and detail and sound like crap. They extremely strained and resonant at certain frequencies and flat on others.


This could actually be a resonant enclosure. I have 6.5"s in fiberglass enclosures vented into the frame of the car. I have them highpassed at 300Hz with roughly 120-150 watts going to them. Initially I was getting resonance at lower midrange frequencies. I then used my amplifier to use an additional high-pass filter at 250Hz (the highest highpass setting on the amp) which made the highpass slope ultra steep (about 36db/octave @ 300Hz). This worked! It took many more steps in volume to get the resonance to come back, but I managed to drowned out (mask) the resonance by the overall volume of the sound. So, I suggest either damping the enclosure resonance or try a more steep highpass slope.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

tspence73 said:


> This could actually be a resonant enclosure. I have 6.5"s in fiberglass enclosures vented into the frame of the car. I have them highpassed at 300Hz with roughly 120-150 watts going to them. Initially I was getting resonance at lower midrange frequencies. I then used my amplifier to use an additional high-pass filter at 250Hz (the highest highpass setting on the amp) which made the highpass slope ultra steep (about 36db/octave @ 300Hz). This worked! It took many more steps in volume to get the resonance to come back, but I managed to drowned out (mask) the resonance by the overall volume of the sound. So, I suggest either damping the enclosure resonance or try a more steep highpass slope.


That's pretty clever. I'm going to crack open the enclosures and add a little bit more clay, and toss another crossover on them to see what happens.

Also, as an added bonus that I completely forgot about until now.... I have a $650 set of 6.5" midranges sitting in my garage. Yep, those morel supreme carbon fiber mids I was selling here a while back... I decided to keep them - that may turn out to be a great decision


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

bd5034 said:


> That's pretty clever. I'm going to crack open the enclosures and add a little bit more clay, and toss another crossover on them to see what happens.
> 
> Also, as an added bonus that I completely forgot about until now.... I have a $650 set of 6.5" midranges sitting in my garage. Yep, those morel supreme carbon fiber mids I was selling here a while back... I decided to keep them - that may turn out to be a great decision


I wouldn't give up on the 3" mid just yet. There is still an option to try a 350Hz or 400Hz highpass instead of 300Hz. I've been worried about whether a 3" could work in the A-pillar with a 300Hz highpass. I got a bit paranoid about whether it could due to my 6.5" Infinities giving the fiberglass enclosure funky resonance. I bet a 4" or 4.5" mid would work out for my future A-pillar plans. Your 3" mid could be a bit of a guinea pig for me.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

tspence73 said:


> I wouldn't give up on the 3" mid just yet. There is still an option to try a 350Hz or 400Hz highpass instead of 300Hz. I've been worried about whether a 3" could work in the A-pillar with a 300Hz highpass. I got a bit paranoid about whether it could due to my 6.5" Infinities giving the fiberglass enclosure funky resonance. I bet a 4" or 4.5" mid would work out for my future A-pillar plans. Your 3" mid could be a bit of a guinea pig for me.


lol. I guess I could try an even higher high pass, but with my 6.5" midbass drivers playing up that high won't it split the stage and sound ****ty?

My eventual plan is to put everything in the door, but I want to get driver choice sorted out before I start building.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

bd5034 said:


> lol. I guess I could try an even higher high pass, but with my 6.5" midbass drivers playing up that high won't it split the stage and sound ****ty?


That's one of those things that you cannot possibly know for sure until you try but, yes, from what I've read on this forum, 200Hz - 300Hz is where you want to be and really no higher. Heck, 300Hz is sort of over the mark according to some on this forum. However, it never hurts to test something out and give it a listen. I try not to rule out skirting the edge, especially when I'm trying to eeek out that last bit of distortion-free output.



> My eventual plan is to put everything in the door, but I want to get driver choice sorted out before I start building.


Yeah. The smaller driver is going to be preferrable due to it's on-axis dispersion being superior across the frequency range you're intending. So, trying to make that smaller driver work is the best idea. Only ditch it if you can't get it to work. Personally, I would keep stepping up to the next higher size until I got a driver that worked, that way I could keep the dispersion as ideal as possible.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

tspence73 said:


> That's one of those things that you cannot possibly know for sure until you try but, yes, from what I've read on this forum, 200Hz - 300Hz is where you want to be and really no higher. Heck, 300Hz is sort of over the mark according to some on this forum. However, it never hurts to test something out and give it a listen. I try not to rule out skirting the edge, especially when I'm trying to eeek out that last bit of distortion-free output.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. The smaller driver is going to be preferrable due to it's on-axis dispersion being superior across the frequency range you're intending. So, trying to make that smaller driver work is the best idea. Only ditch it if you can't get it to work. Personally, I would keep stepping up to the next higher size until I got a driver that worked, that way I could keep the dispersion as ideal as possible.


I didn't know smaller drivers had better dispersion... If that's the case, then crossing my 6.5" midbass drivers up to 400hz is going to absolutely destroy my staging/imaging... they're mounted in the stock locations and fire directly into my left leg lol. 

Once I fabricate door pods dispersion won't be an issue as I'll have the ability to point all speakers except the midbass directly at my ears.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

bd5034 said:


> I didn't know smaller drivers had better dispersion... If that's the case, then crossing my 6.5" midbass drivers up to 400hz is going to absolutely destroy my staging/imaging... they're mounted in the stock locations and fire directly into my left leg lol.
> 
> Once I fabricate door pods dispersion won't be an issue as I'll have the ability to point all speakers except the midbass directly at my ears.


At lower frequencies, larger drivers have decent dispersion, it's at the higher frequencies where you get problems with them. So, the only reason to worry about the highpass is the quality of the sound at lower highpass frequencies. With a 6.5" midrange, 300Hz shouldn't be an issue. For a 3" midrange, it's not always going to work out if you want a strong/loud output. The extra highpass and steeper slope is the only trick I know that might get you a bit more output. Otherwise if all you have is the 6.5", then try to angle it on-axis to improve the higher frequencies.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

So getting a beefier midrange won't help for powerful, vibrant midrange.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

If I'm going to crossing the 6.5" speakers higher, like up to 400hz, won't that adversely affect their ability to handle power and play loud all the way down to 60 hz?

Should I get an 8" bass-only driver?


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

Have you tried to port the pods?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

no, I haven't tried porting them. I wouldn't even know how to begin. They're very tiny too, aren't ported enclosures supposed to be larger than sealed?


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

or try stuffing the pods with some polyfill maybe, how much clay is "alittle" ? The more clay you add the less airspace you have left, maybe your hurting the performance of it like that.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I put maybe 1/8"? And it's only on the inside of the back wall, not throughout the whole thing. Though you may be right, since they're so tiny that might have made a difference...

The first thing I'm doing when I get a chance is crossing them over a little higher and adding a 2nd high-pass filter to steepen the slope.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

do you know whats the crossover point on the passives is? I would start from there and play alittle


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## beerdrnkr (Apr 18, 2007)

If the pods aren't all that important to you, you should try the polyfill first and if you still don't get the sound you're looking for, use a dremmel and cut about a 1/2" up the rear of the pod or maybe a little more.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I do not know as a matter of fact but I have them active now and crossed at 300hz. It was suggested to move it up, so I'm going to add the 2nd high pass to steepen the slope and set one at 350, one at 300. I'll move them up in small increments seeing if it makes any difference.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

bd5034 said:


> I do not know as a matter of fact but I have them active now and crossed at 300hz. It was suggested to move it up, so I'm going to add the 2nd high pass to steepen the slope and set one at 350, one at 300. I'll move them up in small increments seeing if it makes any difference.


It's worth a try. It should allow you to get the volume a little higher provided that those 3"s are "on the edge" of being able to produce the intended range without distortion. If the 3's are still wayyyy-off, then you'll need to raise that frequency up higher.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I will let you know the results later today hopefully.


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

Today I got a chance to play with my own 3s hertz hl 70. I have them in the dash mounted flat. I found that if I crossed them at 350 to 400 and with a slope around 6 db to 12 db and the midbass at 250 at 12 db. I really did not loose my stage and also get the response I was looking for from the mids.


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## EternalGraphics808 (Apr 28, 2009)

I too have the krx3 set... However I am not using the pods... Also I have 2 pdx 4.150's and a pdx 1.1000. Running active, using the PXE H650 alpine proc, I have the 3" gains set to just below half, and the gain for the tweeters just under 1/4. 6.5" gains are just over half. xover point for the 3" are at 300, and 5k for the tweeter. 
In my opinion its one of the best setups Ive ever heard (including some IASCA winning cars.. though thats not saying much) . Even at stupid loud levels, everything is VERY clear and undistorted. Tweeters are just a little bright for my personal taste... but moreso from a lack of EQ or whatever the Alpine imprint does to it...

Only thing I can think of is you might have a faulty set? Go back to where you bought it, and see if they have a demo on the boards... and check to see how those sound.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> I'm running 3-way active already. The problem is that if I turn the midrange drivers up any more than they already are they start distorting. I have them crossed at 300hz and they STILL don't like it when I crank it up.
> 
> I have no problem with the tweeters - they sound exactly the way I want them to sound currently.
> 
> ...


You shouldn't cross that Mid Range lower than 400Hz (fs 197.31) unless it's sealed.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

michaelsil1 said:


> You shouldn't cross that Mid Range lower than 400Hz (fs 197.31) unless it's sealed.


why is that? doubling fs doesnt apply to mids and midrange


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

BeatsDownLow said:


> why is that? doubling fs doesnt apply to mids and midrange


I believe it does; at least that's been my experience.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

michaelsil1 said:


> I believe it does; at least that's been my experience.


I was told that it doesnt, I dont know thats why i was asking


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

BeatsDownLow said:


> I was told that it doesnt, I dont know thats why i was asking


I got it from werewolf.


Whenever I've tried to cross lower than double the fs (IB) and gave it some serious Power it fell apart.


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## Fast1one (Apr 6, 2007)

michaelsil1 said:


> I got it from werewolf.
> 
> 
> Whenever I've tried to cross lower than double the fs (IB) and gave it some serious Power it fell apart.


In an IB application I would say double the FS is definitely a good starting point for small midranges. Depends on the driver of course, but sealing them up gets you a great increase in mechanical power handling.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

Model the driver guys if you want to get an idea of the roll off. IMO, it seems the guys that have used the 3" Be driver are using larger enclosures than what Focal suggest. This driver has good sensitivity and maybe is similar to the Be in that a larger enclosure may be needed to get down in the lower range.

The focus at this point should be to try everything to get these drivers to work. However, I think it is really too bad that you wanted to spend so much on these having not heard them or gotten real world feedback. While it is obvious you want clarity but it seems volume is a high priority. It is too bad to have such an expensive mid and have to cross it over at 400Hz. I see no reason why a set of Dayton Audio RS52AN-8 dome mids, Peerless SLS 6.5's or 8's and a set of tweets of your choice would not have worked? There drivers are known to have decent output and clarity for little cash. You could have bought an Audison BitOne with the extra cash.

Sorry man, I am not trying to rub it in but I don't think you have really addressed the need for output in your design. Those mids should be pretty clear crossed at 300Hz however your are still breaking them up. Don't put too much clay in the enclosre as you are making them smaller.

I tried to throw the flag against using the 3"


WLDock said:


> OK, I missed this part....All bets are off! I really wonder is you need to mess with a 3"? I can see now that you are going to have issues with that FOCAL at high volumes..(Some have had issues with bottoming out at volume in certain enclosures) .You are going to have to use a high crossover point....and I think your enclosure will be on the small side anyway in the sail panels. Forget about 170Hz-200Hz crossover point....I think the expensive mid will need to be cutoff at 300Hz-400Hz? Are you sure you can't squeeze a higher output 4" in the kick panels?
> Maybe a set of the Seas W18NX and the Scan Illum tweets is the route you should take? Put some power on them active and you will be all set? Maybe not? You have decent drivers in ther already???? Your currents amps should be fine, maybe get a processor?
> I think you have a lot of trial and error before you will find out what works...we can talk all day about equipment but given your design goals....you are going to have to find your own way out of the trenches. At this point, I don't think there is much that we can do to help given the fact that you already have expensive drivers in but have yet to state what is lacking and what you are looking to improve on. I don't know what to tell you? I will back out of this one.Walt


Well, In no way would I add another driver to this for a four-way front. You should think about crossing high 400-500Hz and getting things to blend. I REALLY don't think a low crossover point (200Hz) is possible at "cranking it" levels with high power going to the 3". Also, check your gains to make sure you don't have to much gain overlap going to the mids...maybe the BIG power is causing them to break up early?...back the gain down some.
Yeah, I know that sucks but consider this another lesson in trying to have it all in car audio...You want low and loud?...this stuff ain't easy.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I crossed them at several different places, it seems that they really like a higher crossover point in these enclosures. 400hz did the trick quite well, they actually keep up with the 12" mag at full tilt, it's pretty sick. They don't really break up, but the tweeters could use some serious EQ at those volumes. I think I finally see why people said they might be harsh, when you really push them to the limits they do indeed get a bit harsh. At normal volumes though there's absolutely no trace of harshness.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> I crossed them at several different places, it seems that they really like a higher crossover point in these enclosures. 400hz did the trick quite well, they actually keep up with the 12" mag at full tilt, it's pretty sick. They don't really break up, but the tweeters could use some serious EQ at those volumes. I think I finally see why people said they might be harsh, when you really push them to the limits they do indeed get a bit harsh. At normal volumes though there's absolutely no trace of harshness.


I don't want to say we told you so (Tweeters). I'm glad the Mid Range is behaving at 400Hz. If you look at the Frequency Response Graph you'll see why it is suggested to double the fs.


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

bd5034 said:


> I crossed them at several different places, it seems that they really like a higher crossover point in these enclosures. 400hz did the trick quite well, they actually keep up with the 12" mag at full tilt, it's pretty sick. They don't really break up, but the tweeters could use some serious EQ at those volumes. I think I finally see why people said they might be harsh, when you really push them to the limits they do indeed get a bit harsh. At normal volumes though there's absolutely no trace of harshness.


Ahh. Is this with two high-passes with an ultra steep slope? Or is this with just a single highpass at work? Just curious. I actually needed a very steep slope on mine if I wanted to kick the volume up high.

And in regards to the tweeter brightness. At very loud volumes, I have a hard time telling whether the irritation I have is really a harsh tweet, or is it just my ear's threshold of comfort being exceeded? Your ear really isn't likely to feel very comfortable with loud high frequencies. I try to only increase the volume up to a real world output and not to the point of agony. If I stay within my ear's comfort zone, my tweeters sound incredible to me. I have zero complaints with my sound when using my common sense with the volume knob.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

The main benefit of a 3-way is that you don't have to use the 6" outside its piston region (the region where dispersion is wide). Cross the midbass and the midrange over at 800Hz-1kHz and the midranges and tweeters over between 3kHz ad 5kHz and it'll sound great.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> The main benefit of a 3-way is that you don't have to use the 6" outside its piston region (the region where dispersion is wide). Cross the midbass and the midrange over at 800Hz-1kHz and the midranges and tweeters over between 3kHz ad 5kHz and it'll sound great.


Really? that high up?
Won't that pull the stage down significantly?

I'm very amateurish, so the advice is much appreciated.

BTW, I think it might just be getting to the pain threshold rather than getting bright... I cranked it up really high earlier and the freaking substage hit the limits before the fronts. I don't think I've ever been in a car where the front stage is louder than the sub. lol I'm running more power to my front stage than I am my sub, so it makes sense.... 

1200wrms for front stage, 1kw for the sub.

it gets L.O.U.D. and I love it. Pretty much exactly what I was looking for in terms of output. Now it's down to tweaking it for better SQ


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

WLDock said:


> I see no reason why a set of Dayton Audio RS52AN-8 dome mids, Peerless SLS 6.5's or 8's and a set of tweets of your choice would not have worked? There drivers are known to have *decent output and clarity* for little cash. You could have bought an Audison BitOne with the extra cash.


just to address this: I don't want decent I want absolutely uncompromising clarity with output well beyond the pain threshold of most listeners. I drive a convertible, it needs to get insanely loud so that I can hear it at 70mph with the top down, then I ALSO want it to sound crystal clear when I listen with the top up and I'm looking for SQ at moderate volume. =)


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

bd5034 said:


> Really? that high up?
> Won't that pull the stage down significantly?
> 
> I'm very amateurish, so the advice is much appreciated.
> ...


My setup is very similar. I upgraded to dual 12's and an 8" midbass so that my overall bass would get up to the volume level of my mid/hi's. Before I did this my bass would distort while my mid/hi's would still be clean. I knew I needed to increase my clean bass output. 

Well, I accomplished that. Now my bass remains completely clean with no audible bottoming out of the drivers. Now my mids and hi's can get so loud with an unclipped 175-watts that the volume can get painful. I know my amp isn't clipping and the volume output is still clean. So, either the speakers are ringing a bit at that volume level or my ears have reached the threshold of discomfort. It's extremely hard to say for sure. I can say my ears are definitely irritated and the sound is awfully loud, but since I don't often push my hearing pain threshold very far while trying to listen for 'quality' tonality and balance, it's just impossible for me to know for sure.

Bottom line is that you likely have great clarity, even at very loud levels. What you could be hearing isn't the tweeters being over-driven. You actually could be experiencing your hearing threshold limits at those frequencies. It's not a good idea to push that volume for very long. You could damage your hearing with extended listening periods.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> just to address this: I don't want decent I want absolutely uncompromising clarity with output well beyond the pain threshold of most listeners. I drive a convertible, it needs to get insanely loud so that I can hear it at 70mph with the top down, then I ALSO want it to sound crystal clear when I listen with the top up and I'm looking for SQ at moderate volume. =)


 Hear me out man....understand where many of the guys on *THIS* forum are coming from. This forum started out as a place where DIY types came together to talk about high performing raw drivers that best many BIG name car audio drivers sets at a fraction of the cost. 

While it was already established (After a few pages of prying) in your original post about the KRX3 set that you are after volume and clarity. My quick and off the top of my head response/recommendation of the Dayton and Peerless drivers as being *decent * meant that they are a good choice for what you are trying to do. Remember what I just said about many of the older members of this forum....the standard is high and few will recommend just a "decent"  driver for someone that wants volume and clarity. So, when I said "decent" I meant "respectable" and would not have recommended the drivers if I thought they would not perform. My point is...it did not take much thought to come up with a couple of drivers that have been tested here that will get loud with clarity and authority for little money vs. the $1200 Focal car audio set.

Now for "absolutely uncompromising clarity with output well beyond the pain threshold of most listeners" that you state you are looking for, you originally seemed to have been uncompromising in getting to that point. You were not willing to do much in terms of the doors, kicks, or anything custom as I am sure many along with myself would have went a different route in terms of design than dropping the Focals in the stock location and the included pod. There would have been multiple large high efficiency high output pro sound drivers in the design. So, unless one is willing to do what is necessary for the sake of "awesome uncompromising clarity with output" one is just settling for the "best" that one can get with the given location and driver size....But that is not to say that loud and clear is not possible.

Anyway, like I stated in your previous post, run the Focal drivers because that is what your gut has been telling you to run. I don't doubt that they are nice speakers...My bud with the Be drivers has a TON of power in his system but he is not a "cranker". However, based on your original requirements of a mid and tweet on the dash and a 6.5" in the door or as you now stated in this post, are willing to try and get an 8" in...I have no doubt that the drivers I recommended would not fit the bill for your requirements with potential to sound awesome for a fraction of the price of the Focal set. Just look at the specs and read the reviews:

Scan Speak Illuminator tweets - $260 set
Can take some power (Look at all the copper, aluminum, and venting in the motor and voice coil http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...an-speak-illuminator-d2004-60200-tweeter.html) and are smooth as silk from bottom to top. Many reviews around. 

Dayton Audio Reference RS52 dome mids - $82 set
These measure well and have a 91 [email protected] 1w/1m sens. All the reviews state these drivers as being very detailed, dynamic with the ability to get loud. Louder than what the average listener can take with these being on the dash. These have a large face but there will be no need for an enclosure. Several post about these on here and the net.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...pecs/4364-dayton-reference-rs52-dome-mid.html

Peerless SLS 6.5 midbasses- $92 set
The word is these POUND and are very clean in doing so and can take some power. Move up to the 8" for more. I am sure you have read the reviews around.

For about $434 (or less if you went with cheaper tweets that can take power) I have no doubt that this set could take the power you have and get loud with the clarity that you are after given the limitations of. That Dayton dome and the Scan on the dash would blow your head off with clarity at volume but I doubt the tweet would scream at you like the Focal. Anyway, you would have money left over for the Audison Bit One to handle the processing. 

Again, just trying to show you that big dollar sets are NOT the only way to dynamics and clarity...the DIY raw driver approach can get you there just the same with money left in your wallet for amps and processors. Also, if after awhile a driver should happen to blow, the replacement cost would be easy on the wallet....that is why many of the SPL guys started using lower priced high power handling drivers. SO, maybe not this time around but give the raw driver approch a try one day...or if you get bored and want to play, get a DIY set to together and compare them side by side with your big name big dollar set.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

HM. WLDock, I had no idea that the meaning of DIY was interpreted as raw drivers. I always thought of DIY as in pick your own materials, design the install and install them yourself. I just assumed that everyone else thought the same. I'm pretty amateurish so the raw driver approach never even crossed my mind until I came here. 

I was considering almost the exact setup you recommended, but with a different midrange driver, as suggested by a member or two. The difference for me came down to a few things: ease of setup - the focal drivers were meant to go together, so I expected an easier time matching crossover points and such 
second, the focal set has a warranty and tech support that could help me if I had a question about the drivers that could not be answered with the spec sheet (which strangely enough I've actually used lol).
third is that I got some pretty convincing arguments for the focal set in PMs from members who loved them - I don't know if it's brand loyalty or what, but the people who have them practically gushed about how great they were lol
fourth and probably most important- I always wanted to try a focal set, so I might as well since this one fit my criteria


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## nycsurfer (Mar 8, 2009)

WLDock said:


> Hear me out man....understand where many of the guys on *THIS* forum are coming from. This forum started out as a place where DIY types came together to talk about high performing raw drivers that best many BIG name car audio drivers sets at a fraction of the cost.
> 
> While it was already established (After a few pages of prying) in your original post about the KRX3 set that you are after volume and clarity. My quick and off the top of my head response/recommendation of the Dayton and Peerless drivers as being *decent * meant that they are a good choice for what you are trying to do. Remember what I just said about many of the older members of this forum....the standard is high and few will recommend just a "decent"  driver for someone that wants volume and clarity. So, when I said "decent" I meant "respectable" and would not have recommended the drivers if I thought they would not perform. My point is...it did not take much thought to come up with a couple of drivers that have been tested here that will get loud with clarity and authority for little money vs. the $1200 Focal car audio set.
> 
> ...


I don't think your $434 combo is what he is looking for,nor going to satisfy him ,he did his research and auditioned the set before his purchase ,he just needs some more opinion on tuning it ,it would be more helpful if you can chill in with more knowledge on tuning instead of criticizing on his decision.

I got my KRX3 after I auditioned few top nouch DIY set and Dynaudio Estor set from local car audio peeps ,I choosed KRX3 because of personal taste ,not neccessarily because it is the best among them .I did pay few hundread bucks more than the raw drivers I was going to purchase originally ,but I totally don't mind paying that overhead to Focal engineers who did their R&D and pre-matched the set.

I agree with you on one thing though ,a hard core DIY enthusiast who switches drivers all the time should stay away from buying a pre-matchd set like KRX3 ,it simply takes away all the fun of getting your system to sound "different" from time to time ,but for me personally,I stick with what I have when I get it sound right in the first place.


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## nycsurfer (Mar 8, 2009)

bd5034 said:


> HM. WLDock, I had no idea that the meaning of DIY was interpreted as raw drivers. I always thought of DIY as in pick your own materials, design the install and install them yourself. I just assumed that everyone else thought the same. I'm pretty amateurish so the raw driver approach never even crossed my mind until I came here.
> 
> I was considering almost the exact setup you recommended, but with a different midrange driver, as suggested by a member or two. The difference for me came down to a few things: ease of setup - the focal drivers were meant to go together, so I expected an easier time matching crossover points and such
> second, the focal set has a warranty and tech support that could help me if I had a question about the drivers that could not be answered with the spec sheet (which strangely enough I've actually used lol).
> ...


Talk to Onymrk on Talkaudio UK forum ,he has KRX3 in his Ford Mustang,he is in Team Focal/Orca ,and also a certified USACi SQ judge .I am sure he can help a lot on your situation .


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

nycsurfer said:


> I don't think your $434 combo is what he is looking for, nor going to satisfy him, he did his research and auditioned the set before his purchase, he just needs some more opinion on tuning it,it would be more helpful if you can chill in with more knowledge on tuning instead of criticizing on his decision.


Maybe you are right...maybe I should get off the DIY raw driver thing? ....It's much too late now.

However, I don't think you have followed my advice to him on his previous FOCAL KRX3 post. Before he actually got the set I stated that based on the fact that he has a loud modified convertible Mustang that he was going to bottom out the 3" and a high crossover point will be needed in the 400Hz to 500Hz range or above. I stated that it was a shame to pay so much for drivers when there are several raw drivers that would get loud with such high crossover points. Also, I don't know what the crossover points are for the 3-way FOCAL passive but I don't think they are that high? Why pay so much for a passive that you can't use? However, I think my comments may have fallen on deaf ears or was not what bd5034 wanted to here? SO!....here we are with another post by him on how he is disappointed with the midrange? Why am I still here? I don’t know?

The reality is....
FOCAL touts the 3" as a small driver solution that will fit on the dash and go low. However, in the case of bd5034 system that ain't the case! So, keep in mind I like FOCAL as well and have used 3-way EXPERT raw drivers years ago , and have talked quite a bit with my bud that runs the Be drivers who I think may have been on TEAM FOCAL at some point. Also, I have read up on JM Labs and understand the research and engineering that goes into their drivers. However, for someone that wants to "CRANK" and is not sure about tuning is a $1200 set the right way to start? Even loud as hell compression drivers and high efficiency mids might not be the right solution???

I am not trying to come off the wrong way and have tried as hard as I could to steer the guy in a direction that would not cost a ton if things did not work out but the choice is up to him. Like I stated previously, the FOCAL set seems like a VERY nice set and I am in no way against that set of drivers...I would not have a problem trying them myself. But, at this point we can give advice over the net on things to try but ultimately it is bd5034's ear and tuning that will decide if the set will work out for him. It does not matter what is put in, it still has to be tuned to his listening taste.

nycsurferm,
While you may run the FOCAL KRX3 set yourself and think that the "$434 combo is not what he is looking for, nor going to satisfy him ,he did his research and auditioned the set before his purchase" we both are kidding ourselves if we really think we know what is best for him. Maybe the set that will work, he has yet to try? I hold no ownership or brand loyalty to any particular drivers.

Anyway, I HAVE ALWAYS tried to be as helpful as possible on this forum and all the others since day one. No worries man.... And bd5034, I do hope that you get these dialed in. I just want you to understand that high doallar does not mean "magic"...the drivers still have to be tuned.

Walt


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

I have no doubt that his 3" will perform to his liking as long as he doesn't go below 400Hz.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

What are the crossover point options on the KRX3 crossover? Can he select 400Hz or is that why he had to go active?


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

WLDock said:


> What are the crossover point options on the KRX3 crossover? Can he select 400Hz or is that why he had to go active?


I know that the Passive Crossover with that set has something like 1200 different tuning options; I heard this from the Focal Rep.

I didn't think he was going to go Active, but when he did he tried crossing the Mid Range way to low for the amount of volume he desired.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

michaelsil1 said:


> I know that the Passive Crossover with that set has something like 1200 different tuning options; I heard this from the Focal Rep.
> 
> I didn't think he was going to go Active, but when he did he tried crossing the Mid Range way to low for the amount of volume he desired.


The 1200+ is the BE line - mine has something like 200 options? Either way, I am trying them quasi-active for a few days to see how I like it. 

Read next post for sad faces.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> The 1200+ is the BE line - mine has something like 200 options? Either way, I am trying them quasi-active for a few days to see how I like it.
> 
> Read next post for sad faces.


My Bad; I just looked it up and it's 162 tuning options. :blush:


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok..... For this quasi-active setup I'm trying with the focal crossovers I'm running the alpine PDX 150.4 and that's it. I've got two channels powering the mids/highs on the passive X/O and two channels powering the woofers with an active X/O. 

When turning the volume up to a particularly high level (about 2/3 head unit volume with gains set at 2/3 on the alpine PDX 150.4), I started to smell something funny. I'm all but certain it's glue and coil, and I backed off immediately.

The thing that confuses me is that the speakers weren't even breaking up and it wasn't sounding clipped...

I pushed it right to the point where the system showed a little stress, but I didn't even cross that threshold... Can it be that there is clipping with a subtle effect on the sound but a large impact thermally? 

Is it possible that when properly crossed over, these speakers simply refuse to distort all the way until the breaking point? Any speaker I've ever heard screamed bloody murder when it was pushed too hard and let you know that it was going to a bad place. 

I've never heard something like this.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

holy cow..... Times viewed went way up but nobody's touched this with a 10 foot pole. Somebody must have experienced something like this before?


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## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

I have my doubts you would ruin your speakers with that amp. I'm running my setup with a 175x4 amp. I can get it to the point of distortion on peaks and my speakers survive it just fine. Those Focals may be a tad smaller, but they should have more mechanically robust motors and coils than most others. You should contact Focal with this question.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> When turning the volume up to a particularly high level (about 2/3 head unit volume with gains set at 2/3 on the alpine PDX 150.4), I started to smell something funny. I'm all but certain it's glue and coil, and I backed off immediately.The thing that confuses me is that the speakers weren't even breaking up and it wasn't sounding clipped...
> Is it possible that when properly crossed over, these speakers simply refuse to distort all the way until the breaking point?


 The fact may be that the distortion might be lower than what you are used to but the coil is obviously getting warm if you can smell it...Might be getting close to the limit? That is all I will say....

However, keep in mind that many have blown low distortion speakers because the driver was clear at loud volumes. Like tspence73 stated, you should get more feedback from Focal America...I don't know if Jessie is still there but he was very helpful to me years ago.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

WLDock said:


> The fact may be that the distortion might be lower than what you are used to but the coil is obviously getting warm if you can smell it...Might be getting close to the limit? That is all I will say....
> 
> However, keep in mind that many have blown low distortion speakers because the driver was clear at loud volumes. Like tspence73 stated, you should get more feedback from Focal America...I don't know if Jessie is still there but he was very helpful to me years ago.


Thank you WLDock and Tspence as well - I am going to contact Focal. 

Also, I have never dealt with drivers that played with low distortion all the way to the limit..... It simply seemed impossible to me that a driver could play to the limit with such clarity. I guess it's a distinct possibility given your comment, WLDock. 

If that is indeed what's happening then I'll just need to be more careful, as I don't have such a clear indicator of where the limits are by gauging audible distortion.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

I can play mine very loud and it stays very clean; if I play it like that for more than a couple of minutes I can smell something burning. :surprised: My Mid Bass drivers get a ton of Class A/B Wattage.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Here's what I recommend: 
Since going quasi-active - check your highpass settings for your passive mids+tweets 
Then Check your highpass and lowpass settings for your midbasses (might be the midbass smelling, who knows) 

Last but not least, put some deadener on your doors (great for midbass), on your inner firewall (less road noise, less engine noise), on your trunk wall+on your trunk floor (less road noise, less exhaust noise) 
Please read this, might help you some: 
Elemental Designs


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> Here's what I recommend:
> Since going quasi-active - check your highpass settings for your passive mids+tweets
> Then Check your highpass and lowpass settings for your midbasses (might be the midbass smelling, who knows)
> 
> ...


 I have the entire car deadened. 

I stripped the entire interior down to bare metal (seats, center console, EVERYTHING was out) and laid strips of dynamat extreme, then put 2 gallons of e-dead liquid over it all. I even did the whole trunk and fenderwalls. 

I have the 6.5" midbass speakers on MDF plates, and I put about 2 lbs of modeling clay in the doors to mass deaden and smeared on the surfaces behind the speakers to minimize reflections, then used foam rubber weather stripping to seal holes and cracks. On top of the doors I added a dynamat extreme door kit and more weather stripping on the mounting areas of the plastic door skin.

This car is solid in terms of deadening, the only thing I've got left to do is the engine side of the firewall, but it's too hot because of my headers - waiting for that new stuff from second skin.

Also it's only the 3" midranges and tweeters running passive, the 6.5" midbass drivers are actively crossed. I doubt it's them though, they're extremely sturdy.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I can't believe this.... I looked today at the crossovers and went to play around with them..... no wonder the damn things weren't getting loud, the mid and tweeter output level was set all the way DOWN. 

I could have sworn I had them set up differently the last time I looked at them, I guess we can file this one under "installer error"

This set gets retarded loud. I'm more than pleased; I'd go so far as to say it sounds absolutely sensational now.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Happens all the time... Welcome to the Car Audio world  

Kelvin 

PS: Glad you like the set


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## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

lol

It's so often something stupid or easily missed...and I'll still do stuff like that even though I know better.

Glad you got it figured out.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

OK. update. I've been fine-tuning the setup continually and I've come to a point where I like the way it sounds so much that I don't want to tune it anymore.

I have been able to produce the smelling of coil/glue that I talked about before reliably and predictably at a particular level of output on the head unit. I have gone to that limit and backed off several time in order to come to the conclusion that it's either the point that my amplifier is clipping, or the drivers simply arne't liking that much power.

I'm going to upgrade my electrical soon so we'll see if that helps. If not, I'll assume it's the drivers and I will have to live with the level of output that I currently have.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

You can only go so far with the volume. Adding more drivers is just about all you can do to get louder, if you've tweaked the system to its Max.


There are some Guys I know that have a trunk full of Amps and 10 Drivers; it gets really loud and Hits Hard!


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

michaelsil1 said:


> You can only go so far with the volume. Adding more drivers is just about all you can do to get louder, if you've tweaked the system to its Max.
> 
> 
> There are some Guys I know that have a trunk full of Amps and 10 Drivers; it gets really loud and Hits Hard!


UGH, I'm really (REALLY) hoping the electrical upgrades will give me a little more headroom. I do not feel like buying another KRX3 set, I'm sure you can imagine why. 

I'm upgrading my substage, and I'm trying to get my front stage as loud as possible without sacrificing SQ so that it can (I hope) do a halfway-respectable job of keeping up with the substage. I want a true SQL system - something that can play music up to 135db or so and actually sound GOOD while doing it. 

The new substage consists of a single 15" in a ported box, 4.5 cube net tuned to 30 hz, powered by a sundown SAZ-3000D running at 0.7 ohms.

This is going to be a 3500wrms substage (give or take a little depending on the amount of impedence rise)

I expect that I'm going to need to keep the substage turned down significantly when I'm going for SQ, then I can simply crank it up when I want to really tickle my lungs.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> UGH, I'm really (REALLY) hoping the electrical upgrades will give me a little more headroom. I do not feel like buying another KRX3 set, I'm sure you can imagine why.


If you are already driving the speakers with a healthy amount of power now and can drive them to distortion, I don't see how you are going to expect more headroom? Yes, better power delivery is always good and will help with system peaks but I think you have the power on tap to drive them to the thermal limits already. Don't forget to take in consideration "when" you will be and for how long "crankin" the system. Driving down the road on a hot summer day with the top down and the system thumpin' is the type of demand that kills drivers. Is this setup going to be up to the task? Consider all scenarios you think you will put this system through.

Do you have your old sub hooked up? If so, Try playing just the front speakers with the subwoofer turned off. This will take some strain off the electrical systems. Now, see if there is any difference in the level of output the front will deliver. Unless you have a voltage sag and your current wiring is strained (Take measurements at the battery and amps before and during playing at high volume) an electrical upgrade is not going to create huge gains in SPL but will help with better power delivery of the potential power...i.e. Better current delivery. 



bd5034 said:


> quick add-on:
> I have a memphis 3-way active crossover and two front-stage amps:
> Alpine PDX 150.4 and a realm audio 600.2
> The realm amp does 150x2 rms @ 4 ohms, 300x2 @ 2 ohms, 600x1 @ 4 ohms - I'm using it to drive the focal 6.5" midbass right now, obviously the gains are turned WAY down. I have quite a bit of headroom with the amount of power I have on tap - if I actually use every available watt it's 1200wrms for a front stage.


The Tweeters and mids are rated for 100 watts.
The midbasses are rated for 200 watts.
You have 150 Watts x 6 = 900 watts to the front. And the drivers have respectable sensitivity; if you are still not getting loud enough then don't expect this front to be able to keep up with a 15" ported sub powered with 3000 watts and still be balanced.


> I want a true SQL system - something that can play music up to 135db or so and actually sound GOOD while doing it.


Obviously, you plan to listen with the top down outside of the car because I don't see how one could stand that kind of volume for too long inside the car with a mid and tweet on the dash firing direct. 

Keep trying, but I think you have experienced the limits of the front drivers powered by your amps. Maybe, once you get the sub stage together it will give you the volume you are desire? But don't expect a balanced system as it will be bass heavy with the volume you are after, the front will not be anywhere near 135 dB.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

try an ear wax removal kit. seriously, if you didnt know your x overs were set wrong you might not be aware of the giant lumps of wax in your ears preventing you from enjoying music.

seriously, go to a pharmacy and clean your ears out.

i do it once a year, makes a lot of difference.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

60ndown said:


> try an ear wax removal kit. seriously, if you didnt know your x overs were set wrong you might not be aware of the giant lumps of wax in your ears preventing you from enjoying music.
> 
> seriously, go to a pharmacy and clean your ears out.
> 
> i do it once a year, makes a lot of difference.


rofl. 

I think I just have extremely insensitive ears, but I do keep them clean! :laugh: Probably too many years of listening to my music at ridiculous volume  

Also, I do indeed plan on listening to this setup out in the open with the top down, and on the highway on a hot summer day, also with the top down. 

I'm not building a SQ comp car, this is my all-purpose car. It serves duty as my daily driver, occasionally as a show car, often as a "drive it down to the beach with the top down" car, and sometimes serves as a stereo for 20-30 people at a picnic or bbq. 

I have said it before, but just again so everyone doesn't have to read the whole thread:

I want the best SQ I can manage for daily driving, ridiculously high output for top down driving and whatever else I may need it to get loud for. (I use an aux input stereo headphone jack that I've even used for a laptop to watch a movie)

I may be asking too much, I'm not really sure. I do have more power on tap, so the worst that can possibly happen is that I save for a couple of months and buy another krx3 set and double the power.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> I want.... ridiculously high output for top down driving and whatever else I may need it to get loud for...I may be asking too much, I'm not really sure. I do have more power on tap, so the worst that can possibly happen is that I save for a couple of months and buy another krx3 set and double the power.


Right there is where I think you should put your focus on. When you started this quest you stated that you were not willing to do anything major to get larger or multiple drivers in now you may be thinking otherwise? Adding another $1200 set of drivers will help you get louder but does $2400 of drivers and a ton of power make sense to you? If so then by all means.....

However, have you even considered for a second the though of a different system design? Would it be worth it to you to experiment with a set of compression drivers and a set of high efficiency 8" midbasses? I know you are sick of others offering alternative speakers when you already have the FOCALS but the "ridiculously high output for top down driving and whatever else I may need it to get loud for" comment should make you stop and think. 
I think your SPL needs and much higher than average and high output drivers should be considered. I have NO idea what is going to ultimatly work for you...no one does but YOU! However, I think you should begin to look along these lines in terms of a system design.

If I wanted crazy loud yet clean and controlled sound, This if what my system design would look like...this is the last one I will offer

- Image Dynamics or Veritas HLCD (Horn Loaded Compression Drivers)
Here is a set of bodies for sale:http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...num-body-horns-no-drivers-faitel-pro-8-s.html

- B&C 8NDL51 or JBL 2118H, etc 8" wide range mid/midbass

-A couple of 15" IB high effeciency subs IB.

Amp Power
About 50-75 watts on the horns depending...
About 400-600 watts(4 Ohm) a side on the midbasses depending
About 1500-2000 to the subs

That is how I would get loud.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> rofl.
> 
> I think I just have extremely insensitive ears, but I do keep them clean! :laugh: Probably too many years of listening to my music at ridiculous volume
> 
> ...


i thought my ears were clean before i removed my first pea sized lump of wax from deep inside, and recovered lots of high end hearing as well as 30% more volume.

pro audio drivers are generally loudest.

expensive drivers have subtle details, pro audio drivers get loud.


----------



## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

WLDock said:


> Right there is where I think you should put your focus on. When you started this quest you stated that you were not willing to do anything major to get larger or multiple drivers in now you may be thinking otherwise? Adding another $1200 set of drivers will help you get louder but does $2400 of drivers and a ton of power make sense to you? If so then by all means.....
> 
> However, have you even considered for a second the though of a different system design? Would it be worth it to you to experiment with a set of compression drivers and a set of high efficiency 8" midbasses? I know you are sick of others offering alternative speakers when you already have the FOCALS but the "ridiculously high output for top down driving and whatever else I may need it to get loud for" comment should make you stop and think.
> I think your SPL needs and much higher than average and high output drivers should be considered. I have NO idea what is going to ultimatly work for you...no one does but YOU! However, I think you should begin to look along these lines in terms of a system design.
> ...


I wanted to do horns in the beginning, but I can't fit them. 
As far as the 8" midrange/midbass, I have thought about that. It's not off the table yet, and I want you to know that if I go that option, it would mean two things:
1 - I'd be forced to make new door skins, no way to avoid it
2 - If I'm forced to make new door skins, I'd just go crazy and use DUAL 8" drivers for midbass

As far as substage, never you mind that, I've got a 3,500 watt substage in the works. As a matter of fact I've got the sub and amp already, and the box is getting built.


----------



## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

60ndown said:


> i thought my ears were clean before i removed my first pea sized lump of wax from deep inside, and recovered lots of high end hearing as well as 30% more volume.
> 
> pro audio drivers are generally loudest.
> 
> expensive drivers have subtle details, pro audio drivers get loud.


there's no way to have it all, is there 

maybe I'm a perfectionist, maybe I'm just greedy and irrational - I'm not sure which.....

Now that i've become accustomed to the exceptional detail of the focal set, I don't think I would want to move to a less detailed setup. I really like being able to hear things on my stereo that I can't hear on any other stereo.

I just want it to get louder


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> there's no way to have it all, is there
> 
> maybe I'm a perfectionist, maybe I'm just greedy and irrational - I'm not sure which.....
> 
> ...


i bet $100 @ 70 mph with the top down your not hearing many subtle details.

put some pro audio drivers in there and it will be louder and sound just as clean.

unless your parked...at night...in teh woods.:laugh:


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

60ndown said:


> i bet $100 @ 70 mph with the top down your not hearing many subtle details.
> 
> put some pro audio drivers in there and it will be louder and sound just as clean.
> 
> unless your parked...at night...in teh woods.:laugh:


I do drive with the top up whenever it rains, and also all winter long :surprised:

pro audio intrigues me though.

I've got the focal set already though which is the biggest barrier to pro audio drivers - that's alot of money that would be completely wasted.
I don't think I'd be able to sell them, the market for those speakers is so tiny.


----------



## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> I do drive with the top up whenever it rains, and also all winter long :surprised:
> 
> pro audio intrigues me though.
> 
> ...


you can sell em easy. if you demand 95% of what they cost you it could take a long time, put em on e bay (starting price 50% of what you paid, and let people bid on them, i bet you get 83% + of what you paid.lots of people want drivers like that.

or buy an older lexus/merc hardtop and put em in there for long drives?


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

bd5034 said:


> there's no way to have it all, is there
> maybe I'm a perfectionist, maybe I'm just greedy and irrational - I'm not sure which.....
> Now that i've become accustomed to the exceptional detail of the focal set, I don't think I would want to move to a less detailed setup. I really like being able to hear things on my stereo that I can't hear on any other stereo.
> I just want it to get louder


 Who ever said that you loose detail with pro drivers? Some very good sounding systems have been built using pro audio drivers...don't get it twisted...every system has to be tuned.

So what obstructions are in the way, the air vents? Maybe a minibody horn will fit?









HLCD Installs:
Tutorials at SpeakerWorks/USD Audio
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/55267-2009-c6-corvette-horns-oe-source.html


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

The odd shape of the dash with those huge bulging curves is what prevents me from doing horns on top of the dash. (also, they would look horrible, and I take it to shows here and there) As far as underneath the dash... it's actually extremely crowded down there - there's barely any room for anything because of the steering column, wiring harnesses, fuse box, etc. Also, my legs would completely obstruct sound coming from underneath the dash. 

Pro audio midranges and woofers is a possibility, but horns aren't really.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

I don't think you understand how horns work...trust me, your legs won't block the sound if installed right. Have you ever heard a good sounding car with them installed? Top of the dash or under?


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

WLDock said:


> I don't think you understand how horns work...trust me, your legs won't block the sound if installed right. Have you ever heard a good sounding car with them installed? Top of the dash or under?


I've never heard horns in a car. I understand that the benefit of horns is the dispersion and the sensitivity, but believe me when I say the driver's side will be banging against my knees and the sound will fire into my crotch. 

The footwells are tiny, and under-dash there isn't a whole lot of room. When I'm driving hard, I practically bang into the lip under the dash as it is. Passenger side it would be easy to do a kick panel or a horn.... driver's side - not so much. If I could figure out a way to fiberglass an enclosure for a horn on the dashboard I would consider it, but I think that particular shape would be well beyond my ability. 

Once again though, my biggest barrier is the expensive three-way set that I currently have. I don't think I could recoup anywhere near what I paid for it, so I might as well keep it and try to tune it to my own tastes.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

bd5034 said:


> I've never heard horns in a car. I understand that the benefit of horns is the dispersion and the sensitivity, but believe me when I say the driver's side will be banging against my knees and the sound will fire into my crotch.
> 
> The footwells are tiny, and under-dash there isn't a whole lot of room. When I'm driving hard, I practically bang into the lip under the dash as it is. Passenger side it would be easy to do a kick panel or a horn.... driver's side - not so much. If I could figure out a way to fiberglass an enclosure for a horn on the dashboard I would consider it, but I think that particular shape would be well beyond my ability.
> 
> Once again though, my biggest barrier is the expensive three-way set that I currently have. I don't think I could recoup anywhere near what I paid for it, so I might as well keep it and try to tune it to my own tastes.


Focal 165 KRX3 (165krx3) 6-1/2" Component Systems Car Speakers Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix

you can sell em and get something that will satisfy your desire for volume.or keep em and always be disappointed.?


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

60ndown said:


> Focal 165 KRX3 (165krx3) 6-1/2" Component Systems Car Speakers Car Audio Car Audio, Video, & GPS Navigation - Sonic Electronix
> 
> you can sell em and get something that will satisfy your desire for volume.or keep em and always be disappointed.?


Mine gets loud enough! 


If you're not happy take a loss and try something else.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

michaelsil1 said:


> Mine gets loud enough!
> 
> 
> If you're not happy take a loss and try something else.


like women eh!


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

60ndown said:


> like women eh!


Some people just stay stuck and suffer.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

OK... Just for argument's sake. What sort of pro audio drivers would YOU use? Absolutely outrageously loud, perfectly clean. Detail if possible, but that's discretionary and comes after being loud and clean.

Remember the odd shape of my dash. It bulges out in semicircular protrusions on both the driver's side and passenger side. Under the dashboard on the passenger side there's tons of room, but practically no room at all under driver's side dashboard.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

bd5034 said:


> I've never heard horns in a car. I understand that the benefit of horns is the dispersion and the sensitivity, but believe me when I say the driver's side will be banging against my knees and the sound will fire into my crotch.
> 
> The footwells are tiny, and under-dash there isn't a whole lot of room. When I'm driving hard, I practically bang into the lip under the dash as it is. Passenger side it would be easy to do a kick panel or a horn.... driver's side - not so much. If I could figure out a way to fiberglass an enclosure for a horn on the dashboard I would consider it, but I think that particular shape would be well beyond my ability.
> 
> Once again though, my biggest barrier is the expensive three-way set that I currently have. I don't think I could recoup anywhere near what I paid for it, so I might as well keep it and try to tune it to my own tastes.


I'm pretty sure Horns will fit underneath your dash. Never really seen your car but a Mini body sure can fit. 
You might think that it won't fit since most install that has been done seems to have the driver's horn visible when driving. 

Horns need to be pushed as far back and as far to the sides as possible to get the best result. The opening of the throat can be cut to specific needs. 

Why not give it a shot... Take pics of your driver's and passenger's underdash, post those shots on Image Dynamics Forums 
There are videos of how to mount them and learn about their dispersion. Trust me, I am using horns and they don't fire between my legs... well they do but the sound is WELL ABOVE my dashboard. 

Hope that helps, 
Kelvin


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

subwoofery it looks like your setup is almost exactly the same drivers I was / am using

do you have any problems with them getting loud? Am I just deaf?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Well I know my setup can be louder (if I were to change my amps). 

Have tried the passive way and louder is easy (switch that goes from 3way to 2.5way @ 2ohm load). Pushing it with 300rms (carefully used) 
Not sure you have that ability on the KRX3 passives. 

Then I went quasi-active (my setup now) not as loud but more detailed. 
30rms of tube amp sure won't stress the drivers but I don't need to have it any louder 
The midbass on the other hand is asking for more power than my LRx can provide. 

Make sure you "never" clip your amp - at the kind of volume you play your music, your speakers won't handle a clip signal... Even Focal 

Kelvin 

PS: Stop using mp3s, FLAC or original CDs will be louder on any system than mp3s. 
Try to download a song in 128kbps and in FLAC format - might be pleasently surprise - feels like you're removing a towel from your speakers


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

I've never even heard of FLAC. I have definately noticed the difference between mp3 and cd though... I need my mp3 player volume up all the way, AND the aux input turned up all the way in order to come close to the volume of a CD. 

I'm thinking about switching back to fully active and throwing more power at these speakers before I do anything drastic like ripping them out.


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## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

I'd look into something different for amps than the PDX if you are considering more power anyway. Maybe even a good line driver to go along with it so you can keep your amp gains lower.

I could never get acceptable quality at high volumes with my PDX. (My current Kenwood x4r does much better and it is supposedly "less power" than the 4.150 I had was.)


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

B&C are popular Pro Audio Drivers in a car. Keep in mind Pro Audio Drivers are much larger for the required needs; a typical Mid Range Driver is 12 inches. Some people get away with using an 8" for Mid Bass, but make sure it has a low enough fs.


A lot of us have had to experiment and it has cost us money doing so.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

what are the t/s parameters that I should look for?

I know FS is the resonant frequency, and that a lower FS means the driver will play lower
I also know (obviously) what sensitivity and RMS power rating are

other than that... I don't know much

also: what the heck is "program" power rating? Is that the peak power rating? Because I'll see a RMS rating, then a "program rating" or "music" rating next to it.... I just always assumed that was peak.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

BTA said:


> I'd look into something different for amps than the PDX if you are considering more power anyway. Maybe even a good line driver to go along with it so you can keep your amp gains lower.
> 
> I could never get acceptable quality at high volumes with my PDX. (My current Kenwood x4r does much better and it is supposedly "less power" than the 4.150 I had was.)


I have an eclipse CD5000, the preamp outputs are supposed to be very strong... I hope they're sufficient, but I suppose it's possible that they're not.

In terms of more power - I was going to run my mids and tweeters on the PDX, which is three times recommended power for the midrange and 1.5x recommended power for the tweeter. I'm going to have the gains set EXTREMELY low, so the pdx won't be clipping or giving any signs of strain.

I'll be using a realm audio 600.2 for the midwoofers, once again with extremely conservative gains. 

This should be plenty of power, about 1200wrms on tap. Since the gains will be set so conservatively, I can't see clipping or even the pdx's infamous noise floor being a factor.


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## BettaJetta (Aug 24, 2009)

Im a little nervous now. After reading this thread because I purchased 2 sets of the KRX3's and I am installing them now. Already installed door woofers and had some rings made by a machinist today for the tweets and the mid rings will be done next Friday!


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## ibanzil (Jun 29, 2008)

^^^^^^^^you might want to read the end result. It was user error...after corrected, he ended up praising the KRX3 set. glad you signed up to post that.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

BettaJetta said:


> Im a little nervous now. After reading this thread because I purchased 2 sets of the KRX3's and I am installing them now. Already installed door woofers and had some rings made by a machinist today for the tweets and the mid rings will be done next Friday!


Are you installing them both up front?


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## ibanzil (Jun 29, 2008)

^^^probbly both in the back. LOL 

This type up stuff will start to happen frequently now that Crutchfield sells speakers of this caliber to anyone with a credit card.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

You won't be sorry... I'm sure of that. 

There's lot of adjustments in the crossover for you not to worry. 

Kelvin


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## BettaJetta (Aug 24, 2009)

Well for my install, I am changing things up a little. I have a show/sound car. More show but I still want a great sound.

I will read more of the thread...now.

My new setup will be:

KRX3 front stage

KRX3-Mid x2 and Tweet x1 center speaker for 5.1

The second set of woofers will be in the rear doors.

Alpine W505
Alpine H701
Sinfoni 90.2 - front
Alpine PDX 150.2 center
Alpine PDX 150.2 rear


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

No sub? For show you need a sub  

Kelvin


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## BettaJetta (Aug 24, 2009)

Oh, sorry,

Sub area:

Ground Zero GZPA 2.3000D
2x JL Audio 12W7

I also have a set of speakers in the trunk lid of my Jetta

Alpine 2.150
Focal 165K2


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

BettaJetta said:


> Oh, sorry,
> 
> Sub area:
> 
> ...


Must be some nice BLING


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Need pics of your install


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## BettaJetta (Aug 24, 2009)

Well I guess I need to get a premium account to post links but you can see my car on the web of bettajetta.....com


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Nice ride... King James  

Kelvin


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## BettaJetta (Aug 24, 2009)

Thanks. Where can I see your project?

I am changing the fiberglass in the trunk, around the subs and a few other things. I hope to be ready for the next show season here in Germany. Maybe I will supercharge the car too!


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

ibanzil said:


> ^^^probbly both in the back. LOL
> 
> This type up stuff will start to happen frequently now that Crutchfield sells speakers of this caliber to anyone with a credit card.



don't know where the glib remarks came from, but they're not helpful.

glad you got your rocks off though. cheers!


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## ibanzil (Jun 29, 2008)

^^^It wasnt directed at you. Someone asked where 2 sets of krx3's were going to be mounted. LOL is computer talk for laughing....A joke, a funny.

The second part about crutchfield and anyone being able to buy stuff and hack up the install....I meant that part. If that never happens, I apologize.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

ibanzil said:


> ^^^It wasnt directed at you. Someone asked where 2 sets of krx3's were going to be mounted. LOL is computer talk for laughing....A joke, a funny.
> 
> The second part about crutchfield and anyone being able to buy stuff and hack up the install....I meant that part. If that never happens, I apologize.


I was being serious when I asked where you were going to mount the two sets.


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## ibanzil (Jun 29, 2008)

^^^and to ure comment, I said...probbly both in the back. that was my joke.


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## BettaJetta (Aug 24, 2009)

How do I post pics? Do I need to upgrade my membership? Also the cost say $24 for 1 year and $65 for 5 years. Is this correct? I would like to start a thread on my rebuild and post pics for opinion from other great minds.

Here we go. These are the rings I used for the door woofers. I'll post up the tweeter rings later today and then in a week, the mid rings! I found a great machinist to make the rings! 

I am using KnuKonceptz 10 Gauge speaker cable with techflex, heat shrink tubing and cable pants.


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

wow. nice mounting rings, and I love the wires. Very classy.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Looks like bracings but for door panels. NICE IDEA... 

Kelvin


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## E60M5Straw (Aug 9, 2009)

bd5034 said:


> so I'm utterly disappointed with the level of output from the focal KRX3 3" midrange driver. When purchasing this set, I expected the 3" midrange to be the star of the show, but it doesn't really shine...
> 
> For the amount of money this set cost me I expected more.
> 
> ...



Where are you mounting the front stage drivers of the 165KRX3's? What car are you installing these components in? I'm considering the 165KRX2's for the front stage with 2 - 10's (Subs) in the trunk. The car I'm installing these components in is a 2006 M5. The installers are recommending pods for the component installation. I'm also planning to run active with an Audio Control DQXS converter, since it's a BMW (I-Bus). Any thoughts?


JDS M5


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

E60M5Straw said:


> Where are you mounting the front stage drivers of the 165KRX3's? What car are you installing these components in? I'm considering the 165KRX2's for the front stage with 2 - 10's (Subs) in the trunk. The car I'm installing these components in is a 2006 M5. The installers are recommending pods for the component installation. I'm also planning to run active with an Audio Control DQXS converter, since it's a BMW (I-Bus). Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> JDS M5


I have since solved my problems  I've got my 3" midrange and tweeter in pods on the dashboard and my 6.5" woofers in the doors on a MDF baffle that's damped with clay and deadener.

It's actually sounding pretty damn good these days. I plan on changing it up a little bit and adding 8" drivers for some extra midbass around the 60-120 hz region, but the rest of the range is stellar.


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## BettaJetta (Aug 24, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> Looks like bracings but for door panels. NICE IDEA...
> 
> Kelvin


The rings have a dual purpose. Stability and they also prevent the sound/air from going in between the door panel. The OEM speaker sits behind the door panel. Now the speaker will have a better output....well they are more effective. I always lost points in competitions because the mid bass from the doors had a very low volume compared to the other speakers in the car.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

BettaJetta said:


> The rings have a dual purpose. Stability and they also prevent the sound/air from going in between the door panel. The OEM speaker sits behind the door panel. Now the speaker will have a better output....well they are more effective. I always lost points in competitions because the mid bass from the doors had a very low volume compared to the other speakers in the car.


I keep getting hit for having too much Mid Bass lately. :blush:


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

BettaJetta said:


> The rings have a dual purpose. Stability and they also prevent the sound/air from going in between the door panel. The OEM speaker sits behind the door panel. Now the speaker will have a better output....well they are more effective. I always lost points in competitions because the mid bass from the doors had a very low volume compared to the other speakers in the car.



omg I'm an idiot. I never even thought about that.
I was thinking lately that the midbass could be stronger for certain songs, and i was considering putting more power to the 6.5's. I think bringing them in front of the door skin might help. 

Thanks.


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## BettaJetta (Aug 24, 2009)

I also removed the inner metal door panel and dampened the actual door. I am sure this will help. Now my door woofers are using the actual inner door as an enclosure.


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

I have the Focal BE3 in the Focal pods and I play them from 200hz to 5500 hz and they sound amazing and dont distort at all...


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

mrstangerbanger said:


> I have the Focal BE3 in the Focal pods and I play them from 200hz to 5500 hz and they sound amazing and don't distort at all...


Focal doesn't recommend crossing above 4Khz and mine are sealed and distort when I Cross below 400Hz.

You must not be putting much Power to them.


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

I have the speakers playing from 250hz to 5500hz and they sound amazing 

Im running JL 300/4 to them and the TN53k tweeters they sound great and do not distort at all. Its all about playing with crossover points and trying things.

I have scored great in Meca with the system and not one problem with the crossover points ....


I think it's all about what kind of music you listen to and how loud you play them...

I listen to my system some what loud and they don't distort and sound great so I have no clue what everyone is talking about...


Ya focal has the speakers set up in the 3 way kit to play to about 3800 and then the tweeters play above that but it all depends on the inclosure and were they are installed ...

When I was running A pillars with the Focal Pods I ran the 3inch speakers from 180hz to 6000hz and they also sounded amazing..

IF you dont believe me call Dwain at Orca and he will tell you the same thing....

The reason focal has the crossover points like that is because the mid and tweeter are suppose to be together.
But I'm running kick panels and tweeters in a pillar and love it ....


So try it before you say it cant be done..


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Oh look. Mrstangerbanger is alive


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

michaelsil1 said:


> Focal doesn't recommend crossing above 4Khz and mine are sealed and distort when I Cross below 400Hz.
> 
> You must not be putting much Power to them.


FYI, the Cross Uniq N°7 (passive Xover for the Be N°7) has a Xover point between the Mids and the Tweets @ 7.5kHz (LP 12dB/oct - HP 18dB/oct) 
220Hz is the Xover point between the Midbasses and the Mids (12dB slope for both HP & LP) 

Kelvin


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

Ya I'm alive I have been building my Mustangs motor so I have been on the mustang forums but I'm thinking of coming over to the hybrid side....


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## Wheres The Butta (Jun 6, 2009)

mrstangerbanger said:


> IF you dont believe me call Dwain at Orca and he will tell you the same thing....
> 
> 
> ..


Duane is such a nice guy. He has helped me out more than once. He even sent me an extra Focal decal when I switched vehicles.


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## andreszo (Aug 20, 2013)

Hello everyone. This is my 1st post over here. After being reading for a while I could not avoid to comment on this thread. I just want to say this is one of the most misleading threads I ever read in my entire life on the internet. I say this not only as a mobile audio enthusiast also as a consumer.

Turns out I was looking for some info about Focals Krx3 (which I already owned) on google and this thread showed up immediately. I read the topic and 3 or 4 comments and I felt kind of dissapointed. I came back some weeks after and it wasn't until I spent 30 minutes of reading (not native English speaker) that I realised that the problem stated was caused by the owner, so there was no mayor issue with the set of speakers (crossover was not set properly)

I am not trying to judge anyone, we all make mistakes. However, some other forums make possible red highlighted information can be added by admins in order to warn future readers about misleading content and mainly to inform whether the original consultation was solved or not. 

Maybe I am oversizing the issue but I think some adjustements could be made for the good of the invaluable information can be obtained from this very well organized forum. It is not easy to find information about products like focal speakers so it is sad to find out most of that info is less than reliable. 
Cheers,


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

Like most search engines, KEY WORDS SEARCHES yeild results, However they may or may not be reletive to your situation. Certian people just take the long way or wrong way to express themselves and get the intended point across. Anyhow, I seriously doubt anyone gave a rats ass about that minor misinformation in a tread that hasnt been posted on until now. 

Now, Another way to get information you need would be to post your own tread. There are plenty of FOCAL teammembers and reps on this forum that can help you with pretty much any qustion you have.... By the way, I love my KRX3 set. I have not had any issues with them. 



andreszo said:


> Hello everyone. This is my 1st post over here. After being reading for a while I could not avoid to comment on this thread. I just want to say this is one of the most misleading threads I ever read in my entire life on the internet. I say this not only as a mobile audio enthusiast also as a consumer.
> 
> Turns out I was looking for some info about Focals Krx3 (which I already owned) on google and this thread showed up immediately. I read the topic and 3 or 4 comments and I felt kind of dissapointed. I came back some weeks after and it wasn't until I spent 30 minutes of reading (not native English speaker) that I realised that the problem stated was caused by the owner, so there was no mayor issue with the set of speakers (crossover was not set properly)
> 
> ...


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

andreszo said:


> Hello everyone. This is my 1st post over here. After being reading for a while I could not avoid to comment on this thread. I just want to say this is one of the most misleading threads I ever read in my entire life on the internet. I say this not only as a mobile audio enthusiast also as a consumer.
> 
> Turns out I was looking for some info about Focals Krx3 (which I already owned) on google and this thread showed up immediately. I read the topic and 3 or 4 comments and I felt kind of dissapointed. I came back some weeks after and it wasn't until I spent 30 minutes of reading (not native English speaker) that I realised that the problem stated was caused by the owner, so there was no mayor issue with the set of speakers (crossover was not set properly)
> 
> ...


i figured out the crossover part in the first 30 seconds of reading his OP...i was like dude, why are you crossing such a nice driver so low?


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## andreszo (Aug 20, 2013)

The real Subzero said:


> Like most search engines, KEY WORDS SEARCHES yeild results, However they may or may not be reletive to your situation. Certian people just take the long way or wrong way to express themselves and get the intended point across. Anyhow, I seriously doubt anyone gave a rats ass about that minor misinformation in a tread that hasnt been posted on until now.


I came accross to this thread while trying to make up my mind on focal krx3 set and this is what I get, someone claiming krx3 midrange completely sucks ; the point here is some info should be debugged or cleared on threads like this, otherwise it will end up misleading others like me, and even worse, brands might be unfairly harmed. Take in account diy forum is very popular as I can see now, and not registered people sometimes come to get some reviews of true enthusiasts.


The real Subzero said:


> Now, Another way to get information you need would be to post your own tread. There are plenty of FOCAL teammembers and reps on this forum that can help you with pretty much any qustion you have.... By the way, I love my KRX3 set. I have not had any issues with them.


I was thinking about doing that, but I prefer to read what has already been posted and avoid making stupid questions about some topic that, hopefully, has been already discussed coherently.

BTW my krx3 are still waiting to be installed, so I can't say I enjoy them yet. 
I can't get tired of 165kr, just love them.


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

andreszo said:


> BTW my krx3 are still waiting to be installed, so I can't say I enjoy them yet.
> I can't get tired of 165kr, just love them.



I bet they do sound nice. I havent heard those but the Focal speakers I have heard are very nice.


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