# 2014 Audi S4 - Random drivers, minidsp, SI bm12



## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

I have the stock b&o and plan to update the front 3 way with random, well-measuring drivers, add a sub and tune it all with a minidsp 6x8. 

I am currently piecing together the rest of the needed equipment for the build which is all used to save some money. More later...

If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, please feel free to send it this way. TIA


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

It’s been 15yrs since I put a 2way focal system in my ‘02 b5 s4 which I sold in 2011. Since then I’ve had a couple of cars and had to “rock” their middling factory systems due to being back in school/lack of funds. Because of this, my interest moved over to home theater and 2ch music. This hobby is no cheaper, but I learned a ton about speaker building and acoustic science thanks to AVSforum. 

Over the past couple of years, I’ve been most intrigued by Dennis Murphy of Philharmonic Audio as well as some other speaker designers. Dennis has long had a reputation of using inexpensive drivers combined with his crossover knowledge/wizardry to produce some very good and accurate speakers at unusually low prices. For personal reasons he has closed up his business and turned over his designs to Salk Sound amongst others. His most recent accomplishment prior to closing is his BMR Philharmonitor (http://philharmonicaudio.com/BMR Philharmonitor.html). It utilizes a RAAL ribbon tweeter, a Scanspeak 7” woofer and a Balanced Mode Radiator (BMR) for the mids. His website says this about the BMR: “The BMR is a flat-diaphragm speaker that uses strategically placed weights in the diaphragm to counteract the mass of the voice coil at higher frequencies. The driver operates as a piston at lower frequencies, but shifts to a bending wave motion mode in the lower treble, and to a second bending mode in the upper treble. The result is greatly reduced breakup and extremely broad dispersion above 2,000 Hz. This driver is used as both a midrange and tweeter in several commercial applications. Although the BMR can function acceptably in this fashion, its true strength is upper midrange performance. The highest frequencies are much better served by the RAAL ribbon tweeter.” Sounds funky! I remember reading about BMR drivers years ago and being fascinated by it’s different actions (pistonic and wave-like). It reminded me of how light can behave as a wave or a particle (which can even be affected by/dependent on whether or not the light experiment is being observed!). This new speaker was reviewed to many accolades over on audioholics https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/bmr-philharmonitor-1
Seeing that inexpensive drivers can be combined with some crossover magic to produce a great measuring and sounding speaker made me want to try it with dsp.

When I finally had a decent car that I wanted to put money into, I started planning. So initially, the plan was to just add a sub and dsp to see if I could improve the sound of the b&o to satisfactory levels. Once I actually started to look into what it would take to make that work (MOST connection, new amps, etc) I started thinking I may as well replace the speakers too, or at least the fronts.

When I started looking at 3way sets, I’d forgotten how expensive they can get. Great stuff but easily $1k+. So I began looking on madisound and parts express, etc for raw drivers. I don’t understand what all the speaker parameters mean, but I do know what a flat frequency response looks like so I started there.

The biggest limitations have been the depths available in the various factory speaker locations, particularly the midrange on the dash. While I don’t know the exact depths, I do know a few speakers that do fit like the Audison voce 3” and Illusion Audio c3cx. They’re both relatively shallow around 38mm, but are also pretty expensive...

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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

Speaker Options

As I’ve previously mentioned, I’m choosing drivers based on fitment in the stock locations and frequency response only. If the other parameters I don’t understand indicate any of these won’t work for other reasons, please let me know. 


For the tweeter, I’m pretty sure I’m going with this guy, the SB Acoustics SB21RDC-C000-4
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/sb-sb21rdc-c000-4/
I’m guessing it’ll fit and the FR is ruler flat with the off-axis looking pretty good too.


For the midrange, I have narrowed it down to a couple:

1. Tectonic TEBM46C20N-4B BMR 3" Full-Range Speaker 4 Ohm
https://www.parts-express.com/tectonic-tebm46c20n-4b-bmr-3-full-range-speaker-4-ohm--297-2157

Or

2. SB Acoustics SB10PGC21-4 3" Full Range
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-fullrange/sb-acoustics-sb10pgc21-4-3-full-range/

I don’t know if #2 with fit depth-wise, anyone with info on this feel free to chime in. I also have a pm to Dennis Murphy on AVS about the BMR for this use. I’m interested to see what he thinks.





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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

Well I already got a reply from Dennis:

“Hi I think your plan is workable, but it will take a lot of fiddling with the dsp to get things sounding right. The BMR should function well as a midrange, with a lower crossover point of 400 Hz - 500 Hz using 4th order slopes, and an upper crossover of 3 kHz to 5 kHz depending on how robust your tweeter is. The one tricky thing about the BMR is getting the chamber right. It shouldn't be more than about 4" wide and high, and 4" deep. And it will have to be heavily stuffed with Eco-Core denim insulation. Nothing else will adequately tame a sharp peak and dip below 2 kHz, where the driver transitions from pistonic to bending motion. Eco Core is available from Meniscus Audio, but the minimum order size is way more than you'll need for the BMR. You could also stuff the woofer box with it if the box is sealed. If it's ported, you won't want much stuffing in the box. Also--make sure the BMR chamber is totally sealed--no air leaks or the driver won't load properly. Cheers, Dennis”

So it looks like the installation requirements are very specific to achieve the optimal performance out of the BMR. I think I’m going to try and go by my audio shop and talk with them this weekend. If possibly feasible, I may just buy the BMRs since they’re so cheap and the other mids and see which ones work best.


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## AD Ventium (Mar 22, 2017)

Defs interested in this build not only because I have l more experience with home audio and AVS forum but also because I have read a lot about the Philharmonitor and I’ve listened to them in person when I went to see Mr. Salk at his factory in his beautiful wood finishes truly an amazing sounding speaker!


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

JCsAudio said:


> See this Zaph review on similar SB tweeters here.
> 
> It has a higher resonant frequency so it would need to be crossed over a little higher but 2500 Hz LR4 should be no issue with this one either. If your putting together a three way with a smaller more capable midrange than you should be fine here. It’s also a larger format (obviously) and has a little less thermal power handling and I personally don’t see this tweeter not being able to keep up with most anything SQ related.
> 
> Listen to GreatLaBroski, I know he’s done a lot of testing. SkizeR too but I think he’s confusing the SB17 woofer with their tweeter, IDK.





ambesolman said:


> Thanks for the link. Wish there was a more recent comparison, but he did a great job with that. It made the info much easier to understand.
> 
> There’s a couple of mids I’m looking at. Best guess is that I’m limited to no bigger than 3” and no deeper than about 38mm. The only two aftermarket mids I’ve heard of being used in the b&o factory location are the Illusion c3cx and audison voce which are both 3”/38mm.
> 
> ...





JCsAudio said:


> I tried the smaller version of that tectonic driver and wasn’t all that impressed with it but I didn’t put it into an enclosure either and give it a chance or do any measuring/testing. Xmax seems good and the sensitivity isn’t too low so if carefully executed in the right enclosure it might sound good assuming the distortion is low. I would say this driver needs an enclosure to sound it’s best.
> 
> SB Acoustics usually makes pretty decent stuff but that driver requires a big enclosure or use it IB but make sure you separate the back wave from the front wave. It has a lower fs so it might be able to cross lower than the tectonic driver which has an fs of 170.
> 
> ...


Decided to copy this here to keep from cluttering the other thread.

I actually came across those morel mids the other day, they look good. I'm not opposed to spending a little more if it's worth it since most of the music lives in the midrange, plus they fit.

Regarding the SB mid I linked, having never installed anything myself, how do you keep the front and back waves separate?
With the BMR, is it possible to make a sealed enclosure in the stock dash location? Guessing it'd have to be done with fiberglass? How big an enclosure?
I'm not planning on using these full range, just as mids. I simply picked these because the FRs looked better than most of the dedicated mids I was seeing.

I've read that the FR around the 2500k mark is where a lot of the vocal range is located. Could it be more ideal to keep the mid playing up a little higher so that the xo point is not in that range? 

Thanks for all your help.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

AD Ventium said:


> Defs interested in this build not only because I have l more experience with home audio and AVS forum but also because I have read a lot about the Philharmonitor and I’ve listened to them in person when I went to see Mr. Salk at his factory in his beautiful wood finishes truly an amazing sounding speaker!



Phil’s and Salk? That’s a good day! Unfortunately, I haven’t heard either in person. Funk is another I’d love to check out.



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## AD Ventium (Mar 22, 2017)

Getting to hear Nathan’s speakers (Funk) would be an amazing experience. I’ve heard quite a few very high end speakers being apart of the industry and having business related trips where I go listen to different brands of speakers and shop competitors and truthfully I can say the brand new Salk Sounds SS 9.5 is the best speaker I’ve heard hands down without a second thought.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

AD Ventium said:


> Getting to hear Nathan’s speakers (Funk) would be an amazing experience. I’ve heard quite a few very high end speakers being apart of the industry and having business related trips where I go listen to different brands of speakers and shop competitors and truthfully I can say the brand new Salk Sounds SS 9.5 is the best speaker I’ve heard hands down without a second thought.













They look gorgeous and would love to hear those.



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## AD Ventium (Mar 22, 2017)

ambesolman said:


> AD Ventium said:
> 
> 
> > Getting to hear Nathan’s speakers (Funk) would be an amazing experience. I’ve heard quite a few very high end speakers being apart of the industry and having business related trips where I go listen to different brands of speakers and shop competitors and truthfully I can say the brand new Salk Sounds SS 9.5 is the best speaker I’ve heard hands down without a second thought.
> ...


High praise for sure lmao and it’s well deserved! 
Also just picked up my 2016 A4 today!


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

AD Ventium said:


> High praise for sure lmao and it’s well deserved!
> Also just picked up my 2016 A4 today!




Congrats! What did it replace?


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## AD Ventium (Mar 22, 2017)

ambesolman said:


> AD Ventium said:
> 
> 
> > High praise for sure lmao and it’s well deserved!
> ...


Replaced a 2011 Chevy Cruze which was also my first car!


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

AD Ventium said:


> Replaced a 2011 Chevy Cruze which was also my first car!















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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

Well, I went by my audio shop over the weekend to try and get an estimate for installation and kick around some ideas. I realized that I’ve definitely been out of this hobby for longer than I thought, because I’d forgotten how expensive it can be. It’s going to cost twice as much as I thought to put all the equipment in and build the fiberglass box.

As of now, the plan is to install:

Alpine pdx-v9 (2)
MOST connector box
Minidsp 6x8
SI bm12 mkv 
Sound dampening on front doors
3-way speakers up front

That said, I’m going to have to install this stuff in at least two stages, but I’m unsure what to do first. An amp and sub seems like a good start, but can I do that without needing to install the MOST box or minidsp at the same time?


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

Stole this from the audizine b8 s4 audio thread. I've wondered if anyone has measured the factory b&o system. I was planning on trying to do so to help out the community, but glad to see I don't need to. I was just thinking yesterday about starting off by replacing the speakers only while I save money for the rest of the install, but it looks like that'd be a worthless proposition looking at the signals coming out of the factory b&o amp... 







extratime said:


> I'm not familiar with anything Audison, but I still maybe able to help you out a little because I've bypassed the B&O system in favor of aftermarket. It's impossible to describe in words what the improvements are because frankly it has to be heard to be believed. What good would it do to tell you something like it's "awesome/great/totally worth it/etc.". That's just my opinion. I can, however, provide you with some visuals that may help you make up your own mind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Before you do anything... get a mObridge DA1 or DA3.
It'll give you a clean flat signal source to start with, which will make everything downstream so much better.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

jimmydee said:


> Before you do anything... get a mObridge DA1 or DA3.
> It'll give you a clean flat signal source to start with, which will make everything downstream so much better.


As luck would have it, I recently scooped up a audison/mobridge da1 bit from a fellow member that should do the job??

Looks like you have a pretty sweet system in your 440! How do you like the w800s?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Subbing - just found this - will go back to catch all of the proceeding pages  

We could use some pics.....of the car.....and where you plan to put things. 


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

ambesolman said:


> As luck would have it, I recently scooped up a audison/mobridge da1 bit from a fellow member that should do the job??
> 
> Looks like you have a pretty sweet system in your 440! How do you like the w800s?


Perfect. The DA1 will make all the difference in the world. Such a clean and flat signal to start out with. It's a must in these vehicles. 
I've had a couple Audi's, prior to the BMW (I had an S4, and an SQ5), so I have a fair bit of experience in doing systems in that series of vehicle (the SQ5 has a virtually identical interior as an A4/S4).

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...41-audi-sq-build-wish-id-taken-more-pics.html

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...mind-mmats-amplifiers-audiofrog-speakers.html

I just installed the W800's in the BMW, and they are incredible! Very powerful midbass drivers. They have a similar 'punch factor' as the Audiofrog GB60's that I had in the front door of my Audi's.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

bertholomey said:


> Subbing - just found this - will go back to catch all of the proceeding pages
> 
> We could use some pics.....of the car.....and where you plan to put things.
> 
> ...






jimmydee said:


> Perfect. The DA1 will make all the difference in the world. Such a clean and flat signal to start out with. It's a must in these vehicles.
> 
> I've had a couple Audi's, prior to the BMW (I had an S4, and an SQ5), so I have a fair bit of experience in doing systems in that series of vehicle (the SQ5 has a virtually identical interior as an A4/S4).
> 
> ...




This is the only pic I can find and it was taken after its first bath 2yrs ago. I’ve since put a rs4 grill and ecs carbon fiber intake on it. The interior is two tone black/cream with carbon fiber trim.
Glad to have a couple of fellow s4 audio nerds in here!Looks like I have some inspirational reading to do. And speaking of carbon fiber, I just got my pair of SI tm65 mkiii yesterday This is gonna be fun...













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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

ambesolman said:


> This is the only pic I can find and it was taken after its first bath 2yrs ago. I’ve since put a rs4 grill and ecs carbon fiber intake on it. The interior is two tone black/cream with carbon fiber trim.
> Glad to have a couple of fellow s4 audio nerds in here!Looks like I have some inspirational reading to do. And speaking of carbon fiber, I just got my pair of SI tm65 mkiii yesterday This is gonna be fun...
> 
> 
> ...


I loved my S4. One of the best _'bang for the buck' _cars you can get (especially used).
Fast as heck. Handles well. Rock solid in 4 seasons of weather. And built like a mini-tank.


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## AD Ventium (Mar 22, 2017)

Cool to see you went with the tm mk3 is there a reason you went with them instead of an 8 inch midbass since there’s space for it. 

I’ve been in between an illusion c-8 and an AD w800 myself.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

jimmydee said:


> I loved my S4. One of the best _'bang for the buck' _cars you can get (especially used).
> 
> Fast as heck. Handles well. Rock solid in 4 seasons of weather. And built like a mini-tank.


Agreed. I scooped this one just off a lease for about half price w/33k mi. This is actually my second s4. I had a 2002 b5 in the same color. I loved it, but my extended warranty didn’t 





AD Ventium said:


> Cool to see you went with the tm mk3 is there a reason you went with them instead of an 8 inch midbass since there’s space for it.
> 
> I’ve been in between an illusion c-8 and an AD w800 myself.




Money mostly. New c8s were $700-800/pr last I looked and NIB w800 neo in the classifieds we’re almost $500.The mk3s cost way less and when they went on sale last week for $100 off, well, it was too good to pass up. If they don’t give me the midbass I want, then I’ll look at other options. I’ve also used SI ht18s in a 8cuft dual opposed sub I built for my home for a number of years without issue. I know a number of others who’ve used SI drivers for years with great results as well, but I also just wanted to try out nick’s car audio products.

My “Rockbiter” sub




















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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Isn’t that little home theater sub cute? Lol. Those subs were one heck of a value and give solid output, good SQ, and depth. Great HT sub setup.


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## AD Ventium (Mar 22, 2017)

Ah I understand that and yeah I definitely like his products especially his subwoofers that diy home subwoofer came out beautifully and love dual opposed subwoofers. Great job!


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

dgage said:


> Isn’t that little home theater sub cute? Lol. Those subs were one heck of a value and give solid output, good SQ, and depth. Great HT sub setup.




It’s no Deep Sea Sound sub, but it’ll do.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

AD Ventium said:


> Ah I understand that and yeah I definitely like his products especially his subwoofers that diy home subwoofer came out beautifully and love dual opposed subwoofers. Great job!




Thanks, it was a lot of fun to build. I hadn’t built anything since making a pine wood derby car in scouts millennia ago. It won three yrs in a row and then third in county. Figured it was all downhill from there, but that sub proved me wrong 


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

A few pieces of the puzzle came in recently...

TM65 mkiii showed up a few days ago.


























And my BM12 mkv arrived today


























That’s a lot of cf sweetness!


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)




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## m3gunner (Aug 6, 2008)

Following... looks like you have a great plan...

Also part of the AudiManiac™ fraternity... first one was a 1999.5 A4, current herd is 2001 Noggy S4 Avant, 2001 A4, 2015 S3 and my wife's stage 2 2012 A7.

Shot of the herd...


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

m3gunner said:


> Following... looks like you have a great plan...
> 
> Also part of the AudiManiac™ fraternity... first one was a 1999.5 A4, current herd is 2001 Noggy S4 Avant, 2001 A4, 2015 S3 and my wife's stage 2 2012 A7.
> 
> Shot of the herd...


That's a handsome stable. I need to try and dig up some pics of my '01 b5 s4. Did a couple of track weekends in it at Road Atlanta with my dad and we had a blast. I loved it, but very glad I had an extended warranty on it. I bought it with 44k mi and they put $8k-$10k into that car to get it to 100k. Of course as soon as the warranty was up, I had to shell out $3k for an oil leak and torque converter. Sold it right after. The b5s were fun, but not the most reliable. According to Consumer Reports, Audis got a LOT more reliable starting in 2013...


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## m3gunner (Aug 6, 2008)

Absolutely... I'm going to restore the Noggy the best I can, the other B5 was so inexpensive that I couldn't pass on it. Needs some cooling system work and a new drivers seat... probably flip it somewhere down the line.

My 1999.5 B5 was awesome. I got to 215K and only sold it because I got an A5 for a great price. My daughter has the A5 now and lives in Wyoming. That one is over 170K.

Now back to your install... epper:


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

m3gunner said:


> Absolutely... I'm going to restore the Noggy the best I can, the other B5 was so inexpensive that I couldn't pass on it. Needs some cooling system work and a new drivers seat... probably flip it somewhere down the line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Do you work on the cars yourself?


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## m3gunner (Aug 6, 2008)

No... but I'm certainly gonna learn with the S4.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

Best way to keep that wallet from going empty


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

ambesolman said:


> Best way to keep that wallet from going empty


I thought that was to drop car audio and home audio as hobbies!


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

dgage said:


> I thought that was to drop car audio and home audio as hobbies!




You’ve clearly never owned an old Audi/vw, but absolutely anything audio related as well


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

ambesolman said:


> You’ve clearly never owned an old Audi/vw, but absolutely anything audio related as well


And based on my friends that have owned Audi/VW, my wallet absolutely thanks me! I must say that I’ve always drooled over the S4 though, amount of drool depending on year.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

dgage said:


> And based on my friends that have owned Audi/VW, my wallet absolutely thanks me! I must say that I’ve always drooled over the S4 though, amount of drool depending on year.


The extended warranty only hurts the wallet once. The warranty on my old s4 ran me about $2500 for 5yr/100k and it paid for itself about 4 times. Worth every penny...

Knowing I'd want to keep the this '14 for a long time, I bought an 8yr/125k. It wasn't as cheap as the other one, but after the last s4, I knew it couldn't hurt to have it

Don't sell yourself short, that new sienna of yours is no slouch. Just don't let your wife catch you trying to put speakers in it


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

For you audi guys that have replaced the tweeters in the sail panels, do you think a tweet with a 4" faceplate would fit in there? I was looking at this one again and after converting mm-in, cuz you know, 'Merica, I realized how big it really was. 

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...-acoustics-sb29rdac-c000-4-ring-dome-tweeter/


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

ambesolman said:


> For you audi guys that have replaced the tweeters in the sail panels, do you think a tweet with a 4" faceplate would fit in there? I was looking at this one again and after converting mm-in, cuz you know, 'Merica, I realized how big it really was.
> 
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...-acoustics-sb29rdac-c000-4-ring-dome-tweeter/


I've used these in small locations, and for a $40 tweeter, they are nice!
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...stige-27tffnc/g-h1396-1-textile-dome-tweeter/


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

ambesolman said:


> Don't sell yourself short, that new sienna of yours is no slouch. Just don't let your wife catch you trying to put speakers in it


My plan worked. After showing her how big the Illusion C6CX A-pillar pods would be, which she quickly said hell no to, I talked her into letting me put some dash speakers in (GB10/GB25) firing up from the stock dash locations. And we were driving her van today and the stock bass sounded boomy so we went from +1 (too boomy) to 0 (barely there) on the OEM deck. It sounded bad and I made sure to mention it and she agreed. So I should be good to put speakers in her van. I just have to find some amps as I sold my Alpine PDX-V9s to somebody we know.  Oh, and I have to wait for Nick to get the SI SQL-12 subs in.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

dgage said:


> My plan worked. After showing her how big the Illusion C6CX A-pillar pods would be, which she quickly said hell no to, I talked her into letting me put some dash speakers in (GB10/GB25) firing up from the stock dash locations. And we were driving her van today and the stock bass sounded boomy so we went from +1 (too boomy) to 0 (barely there) on the OEM deck. It sounded bad and I made sure to mention it and she agreed. So I should be good to put speakers in her van. I just have to find some amps as I sold my Alpine PDX-V9s to somebody we know.  Oh, and I have to wait for Nick to get the SI SQL-12 subs in.


Ah the old "tell-her-you-want-something-ridiculous-and-then-'settle'-for-what-you-really-want trick". Well played sir


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

Finally had some free time to give the car a quick wash today so I took a few pics. 


































Thinking about putting this here. Only need 0.7cuft for the box.










Would these things have to be moved or can they live there and just fiberglass over/around them? I assume I’d want access to the fuse box.










Other side of the trunk










Not much spare room in there...










I’d like to keep it all hidden. Is there really enough room behind the trunk liner for sub box, 2 pdx v9 amps and dsp? I haven’t seen the gear in person yet so it’s hard for me to judge.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

ambesolman said:


> I’d like to keep it all hidden. Is there really enough room behind the trunk liner for sub box, 2 pdx v9 amps and dsp? I haven’t seen the gear in person yet so it’s hard for me to judge.


No, there isn’t enough room under there for everything. If you made a false floor and lifted a few inches, then yes. But you’d also have some wasted space throughout the trunk since the amps and DSP would only take up a little of the overall floor space.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

dgage said:


> No, there isn’t enough room under there for everything. If you made a false floor and lifted a few inches, then yes. But you’d also have some wasted space throughout the trunk since the amps and DSP would only take up a little of the overall floor space.


I know it's Monday and all, but I'm gonna need a little more positivity out of you than that. And don't say "I'm positive there's not enough room" like I would. Those amps aren't THAT big, the minidsp either, all smaller than standard printer paper at roughly 8x10" and 8x5" respectively. Maybe some could go under the spare tire?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

ambesolman said:


> I know it's Monday and all, but I'm gonna need a little more positivity out of you than that. And don't say "I'm positive there's not enough room" like I would. Those amps aren't THAT big, the minidsp either, all smaller than standard printer paper at roughly 8x10" and 8x5" respectively. Maybe some could go under the spare tire?




Here is some encouragement - I was able to get two Stinger Marine switches under the spare tire  


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

ambesolman said:


> I know it's Monday and all, but I'm gonna need a little more positivity out of you than that. And don't say "I'm positive there's not enough room" like I would. Those amps aren't THAT big, the minidsp either, all smaller than standard printer paper at roughly 8x10" and 8x5" respectively. Maybe some could go under the spare tire?


Then how about you go get you some stacks of printer pages and note cards so you can line up your equipment?  And the equipment would fit in place of the tire but not with the sub in the spare tire well.  And just because you don't like my answer doesn't mean I'm not correct. LOL!


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

bertholomey said:


> Here is some encouragement - I was able to get two Stinger Marine switches under the spare tire
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Haha, aren't those about the size of Post-its? I was a little confused as to what you used those for. Can you dumb it down for me and would you recommend them for my install?



dgage said:


> Then how about you go get you some stacks of printer pages and note cards so you can line up your equipment?  And the equipment would fit in place of the tire but not with the sub in the spare tire well.  And just because you don't like my answer doesn't mean I'm not correct. LOL!


I'm fine with putting whatever in there as long as I still have a spare to use. I'd rather change a tire than be stranded. That's not a bad idea though...


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

ambesolman said:


> Haha, aren't those about the size of Post-its? I was a little confused as to what you used those for. Can you dumb it down for me and would you recommend them for my install?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Some of the bigger post it notes perhaps 

Those switches are handy when I drop the car for service - I can easily cut the power to the amps before dropping it off - the head unit (and DSP) can be turned on, but nothing will be coming out of the speakers - so chance of nonsense at the service department. 

It is also handy for when we are futzing with wiring, etc. - can kill all power to the amps with a flick of a switch. So I find them handy. 


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## AD Ventium (Mar 22, 2017)

First off your S4 is beautiful and I’m planning to start measuring out the trunk to try to fit 3 amps and a dsp but I’m getting rid of my spare tire and I’m okay with a sub box? just a college student with no need for a trunk!


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

AD Ventium said:


> First off your S4 is beautiful and I’m planning to start measuring out the trunk to try to fit 3 amps and a dsp but I’m getting rid of my spare tire and I’m okay with a sub box? just a college student with no need for a trunk!


Thanks! Interested to see what layout works best in there.


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## ejeffrey (Oct 8, 2015)

Subbed!


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

Well, I’ve been meaning to update this thread since I finally have procured all the main items for the install. It’ll still be a couple of months before it all goes in since we are waiting to see what happens with our local school redistricting. I’m holding off on any major expenses in case we have to move. I also need to visit a couple of shops to see what they are able to do for me. 

The equipment list as it stands currently:

Audison/mobridge da1
Alpine pdx-v9 (2)
Minidsp 6x8
Illusion audio c3cx (using factory xo)
SI tm65 mkv 
SI bm12 (2)

I want to keep it fairly stock looking, but not sure about what to do about the box for the subs. Bilateral fiberglassed boxes would be nice and out of the way, but also the most expensive way to go. I don’t really want to sacrifice any depth because I want to be able to fit my golf clubs in the back when needed. Also want to keep the spare as I’d rather change a tire than be stranded. 

One suggestion I liked was to mount them in a shallow box underneath the rear deck. I can spare some height easier than depth.

I’m open to more suggestions and have no experience with planning an install. All my equipment to date has mainly been mounted to the rear of the backseats. I’m going for a more stealthy feel this time around.


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## ejeffrey (Oct 8, 2015)

ambesolman said:


> Well, I’ve been meaning to update this thread since I finally have procured all the main items for the install. It’ll still be a couple of months before it all goes in since we are waiting to see what happens with our local school redistricting. I’m holding off on any major expenses in case we have to move. I also need to visit a couple of shops to see what they are able to do for me.
> 
> The equipment list as it stands currently:
> 
> ...


It's hard to tell, but it looks like there might be room for the amps and DA1 behind the left panel in the trunk - IF that's the factory amp on top and it gets removed. You would probably have to come up with a creative bracket but it's a possibility. 

The subs are definitely going to be more difficult if you are going with a pair as opposed to a single. I'm wondering if you can build an enclosure on the right side with the subs side-by-side, using the area behind the cubby as airspace. You'd give up probably 5" or so in width, but you'd have all your depth to fit your clubs. Factory carpet and some basic round edges would be fairly stock looking. I'm guessing you'd have to make a new, narrower floor to be able to access the spare, but the height would be the same.

I'm really interested to see which direction you go with this. I'll probably have my 335i for another 18 months and the S4 seems like a good candidate for a replacement.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

ejeffrey said:


> It's hard to tell, but it looks like there might be room for the amps and DA1 behind the left panel in the trunk - IF that's the factory amp on top and it gets removed. You would probably have to come up with a creative bracket but it's a possibility.
> 
> The subs are definitely going to be more difficult if you are going with a pair as opposed to a single. I'm wondering if you can build an enclosure on the right side with the subs side-by-side, using the area behind the cubby as airspace. You'd give up probably 5" or so in width, but you'd have all your depth to fit your clubs. Factory carpet and some basic round edges would be fairly stock looking. I'm guessing you'd have to make a new, narrower floor to be able to access the spare, but the height would be the same.
> 
> I'm really interested to see which direction you go with this. I'll probably have my 335i for another 18 months and the S4 seems like a good candidate for a replacement.


How have you liked the 335?


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## ejeffrey (Oct 8, 2015)

ambesolman said:


> How have you liked the 335?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk?


For the most part, I love the car - it's fast even without a software program, and nothing beats a Dinan suspension. I think it's the ideal daily driver because of the balance between sportiness and every-day comfort. And the combination of the shifter and smooth inline 6 is tough to beat. BUT: having to replace the rod bearings at 83k miles (they started to go probably around 55-60k) was almost enough to make me sell the car. Besides that issue, it's been very reliable but the N54 motors are pretty finicky and when something breaks it's gonna be a big repair bill.

So basically it's a love/hate relationship, and I don't like the threat of major repair bills. I hear the S4 doesn't have major problems, it has AWD, comes with 3 pedals, and it's a real looker. How do you like yours?


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

ejeffrey said:


> For the most part, I love the car - it's fast even without a software program, and nothing beats a Dinan suspension. I think it's the ideal daily driver because of the balance between sportiness and every-day comfort. And the combination of the shifter and smooth inline 6 is tough to beat. BUT: having to replace the rod bearings at 83k miles (they started to go probably around 55-60k) was almost enough to make me sell the car. Besides that issue, it's been very reliable but the N54 motors are pretty finicky and when something breaks it's gonna be a big repair bill.
> 
> So basically it's a love/hate relationship, and I don't like the threat of major repair bills. I hear the S4 doesn't have major problems, it has AWD, comes with 3 pedals, and it's a real looker. How do you like yours?


Love it, nicest car I ever had. Scooped it up for just over half price a couple of years ago and got the longest extended warranty available. 

I had a ‘02 b5 s4 that was great, but notoriously unreliable as I found out later. That extended warranty paid for itself 3-4x to get it to 100k. So after that point I sold it to a guy from FL because I went back to school and knew I wouldn’t be able to afford the upkeep.

Having gone through that, I did more research over the years before buying another s4. Specifically looking for reliability, forced induction and awd, a newer s4 was one of only a few options. According to consumer reports, Audi’s reliability got significantly better starting in 2013, so I wouldn’t buy anything earlier than that.

But the handling, power, looks and interior are all top notch and I’m happy every time I get in it.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

Finally got around to going by a local shop today for an estimate. I took all the gear with me so they could look it over to get a better idea of what I want to do. 

I’ve thought about starting with just once bm12 in a glass box in right cubby spot then maybe add a second on the other side down the road as money/wants permit. They weren’t completely certain a 12” would fit there and have enough clearance for the trunk support arm.

If that’s the case then I’m stuck with building a wooden box. I know they’d make it look nice, but I’d need drawings to really understand his vision before agreeing to anything. They also have a cnc on site he said they’d use to make acrylic rings for the tm65s. He said they were some huge 6.5s...think he was impressed.

However, one thing he noticed that I had overlooked was that the minidsp 6x8 does not have an optical input, which I need. Doh! 

This means I’m going to have to find a different dsp. They suggested the JL TWK88. It looks like it’d be a good option and even has an optical pass through, though I can’t imagine what that would be useful for if you’re gonna tune all the speakers anyway?

If anyone has experience with the TWK88 or the Tun software, I’d appreciate any input. Or if there are better dsp options that’d work better, that would be great too since I’ve never had a system with a dsp involved.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I have enjoyed the MiniDSP 8x12 - integrates well with the MoBridge. Easy to learn for tuning. 


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

I know this kinda overlaps the DA1 you bought... but why not sell it, and the MiniDSP - and buy my mObridge DA-G2.PRO ?
It's got everything you need, built into a single unit.









SOLD: mObridge DA-G2.PRO


I have a mObridge DA-G2.PRO unit for sale. Virtually brand new in box c/w all installation hardware. Used it for a couple weeks, then swapped it for a Helix SDMI25 / DSP-Ultra combo. $600.00 USD PaPal fees extra. (can negotiate no fees option offline) Price includes shipping within North...




www.diymobileaudio.com


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

Certainly some good options, thanks.

What about a spdif->optical converter box? Could power be spliced in-line somewhere?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

ambesolman said:


> Certainly some good options, thanks.
> 
> What about a spdif->optical converter box? Could power be spliced in-line somewhere?
> 
> ...


I’d be interested in what you discover here - I’ve been back and forth about a USB to Coax converter myself - haven’t seen anything that would work simply because of the need to power it. 


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

ambesolman said:


> What about a spdif->optical converter box? Could power be spliced in-line somewhere?


This is certainly an option... but these converters tend to be 5 volt, so you will also need a 12VDC to 5VDC converter, for your converter!

Here are your options:

Sell the miniDSP, and buy a different one that has an optical input. I know it's not what you want to hear, but this probably is your best option. 
Add an Optical to RCA converter, as well as a power converter. Which is a lot of extra parts for something that will potentially degrade your overall sound quality. Personally, I wouldn't do it... but it's not my car, not my system.
Buy the new mObridge unit, which has everything you need. I realize this may be beyond your budget, but I'm just presenting it as an option. You could sell the DA1 and the miniDSP for almost the recoupe price of the mObridge unit.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

jimmydee said:


> This is certainly an option... but these converters tend to be 5 volt, so you will also need a 12VDC to 5VDC converter, for your converter!
> 
> Here are your options:
> 
> ...


Thanks Jimmy, a little brutal honesty never hurt anyone. The world could use more of it. With the most recent install estimate, budget was definitely an issue, otherwise I'd go with your mobridge. Luckily, I scored a JL twk-88 for a good deal in the classifieds and it looks like it should be all I need.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Glad you got it sorted out.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

I decided to pick some of the brains over on audizine to get some advice from others who have upgraded the stereos in their s4/a4. While many have simply upgraded speakers and/or added a sub, a few have gone whole hog like those of us here. 

With the desire to keep as much of my trunk space as possible, I kept coming back to the suggestion to mount the BM12s in the rear deck. I texted Nick at SI and asked him. He said the bm would work very well IB and even play lower than if in a sealed box. I’m going to contact my shop and see what they can do...


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