# 2016 SQ Wagon - the new build



## captainobvious

As a number of people now know, I figured I may as well start my build log on this. The Mazda is gone and my new build begins...

The vehicle is a 2016 Ford Transit Connect Wagon. I've already put some new shoes on it and have begun my planning and scheming for what I'd like to attempt. The space available presents some interesting possibilities. It has a very deep dash with a tall windshield and less aggressive rake angle. Doors have a wide "shelf" area on the upper door where it meets the sail area and it has large side windows. The kick area is reasonably large, but not extremely deep.


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## captainobvious

New shoes:

19x8.5 with 245/35zr19" rubber. Sport springs lower the ride height by appx 1.5" front and 2.5" rear.


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## SkizeR

awwwww sheeittt here we go


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## Onyx1136

Look at the size of those A pillars! Noice!


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## captainobvious

So about the build...
Over the last few months I have been auditioning a *bunch* of equipment, both source units and speakers. I have decided on the source unit I will use which is the Sony RSX-GS9. I like the convenience of high quality digital media and the Sony offers excellent sound quality.
After demoing so many excellent high end speakers, I really enjoyed the Scanspeak 25W 10" and the RAAL ribbon tweeter. For midranges I am currently between the Satori MR13P and the Accuton C90-6-724. The Scan 25W is an outstanding woofer and has really impressed me with its resolution and tonality- able to play upper midbass/lower midrange content very cleanly while also having some balls in the sub 50hz range.
The RAAL ribbon is an amazing tweeter. It is about the most natural and dynamic tweeter I have heard to date. The problem with these is that they are huge. 


As we know, once you install speakers in to a vehicle, there are many other obstacles to overcome and there is no guarantee that they will sound anywhere near as nice even when optimally integrated. Because of this, my next step is to do some demoing with the potential speakers temporarily mounted in the vehicle. I'll use towels and absorptive materials around them to help reduce rear wave interference and they will all be played through the Sony unit and the Brax Matrix amps I'll be using in this build. My current plan is to do the midranges mounted high in the door shelf/sail corner area and tweeters off the a-pillar/dash area. The midbasses will be installed in the kicks, vented into the frame rails (not to exterior like I had done previously with the Mazda).


Here are a couple pics of some of my driver testing over the last few months. There were quite a few more than even this that I went through.


















Source units


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## benny z

#in.


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## captainobvious

That RAAL tweeter is the 140-15d by the way- the (big) big one


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## chithead




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## captainobvious

Onyx1136 said:


> Look at the size of those A pillars! Noice!



Yeah for sure. 

As a bit of a sneak preview, have a look at these. For reference, the RAAL tweeter has a 7.1" x 3.6" faceplate size and is well over 3" deep. 









This gives a good reference of the size of the space on the door shelf/sail area in that side window. This is a speaker with an outer diameter of 5.2" and 2.5" deep.








And this is the same speaker set all the way forward in the dash corner...











.


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## cmusic

Here we go again!


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## captainobvious

cmusic said:


> Here we go again!


Will you be at finals again this year?

If so, the finished vehicle will be there.


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## JayinMI

captainobvious said:


> New shoes:
> 
> 19x8.5 with 245/35zr19" rubber. Sport springs lower the ride height by appx 1.5" front and 2.5" rear.


If you're gonna drive a weird little minivan, dropping it on 19's is a good start! lol It actually looks pretty cool.

Jay


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## JayinMI

Also, there must be nearly $10k in equipment on that table, and I bet you aren't even going to use it all. lol

What made you go with the Transit Connect?


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## Babs

Them wheels!!! And of course my favorite car color. But of course you'll excuse me if I mourn the torch passing of the Speed3. That car is already missed. This thing will be outrageous though.. All that space and that dash.. This will be epic!


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## DavidRam

Cool car! Sub'd for a great build!


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## ErinH

Ohhhhh yeeeeeaaaaahhhhh...

I'm in for this one, Captain!


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## abusiveDAD

Yup!!!


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## lowcel

Very nice. I can't wait to see / hear it.


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## strong*I*bumpin

This is different,subscribed.


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## thebookfreak58

Awesome!


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## oabeieo

Sub'd 

You have accution -**** ....some serious speakers. 
This should be good. 
Those amps are the **** bro I am so jealous!


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## danzell

This is too crazy not to follow!


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## Mic10is

Hmmm interesting choice of vehicles to do a system... Thats the kind of vehicle you get when you realize you need to haul a baby around...... Are we missing any other news besides the upcoming install? ??


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## High Resolution Audio

I'm in for this one.......fow sho! Sat in the driver's seat. Mucho roomo! This one is going to be one for the books.


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## optimaprime

captainobvious said:


> So about the build...
> Over the last few months I have been auditioning a *bunch* of equipment, both source units and speakers. I have decided on the source unit I will use which is the Sony RSX-GS9. I like the convenience of high quality digital media and the Sony offers excellent sound quality.
> After demoing so many excellent high end speakers, I really enjoyed the Scanspeak 25W 10" and the RAAL ribbon tweeter. For midranges I am currently between the Satori MR13P and the Accuton C90-6-724. The Scan 25W is an outstanding woofer and has really impressed me with its resolution and tonality- able to play upper midbass/lower midrange content very cleanly while also having some balls in the sub 50hz range.
> The RAAL ribbon is an amazing tweeter. It is about the most natural and dynamic tweeter I have heard to date. The problem with these is that they are huge.
> 
> 
> As we know, once you install speakers in to a vehicle, there are many other obstacles to overcome and there is no guarantee that they will sound anywhere near as nice even when optimally integrated. Because of this, my next step is to do some demoing with the potential speakers temporarily mounted in the vehicle. I'll use towels and absorptive materials around them to help reduce rear wave interference and they will all be played through the Sony unit and the Brax Matrix amps I'll be using in this build. My current plan is to do the midranges mounted high in the door shelf/sail corner area and tweeters off the a-pillar/dash area. The midbasses will be installed in the kicks, vented into the frame rails (not to exterior like I had done previously with the Mazda).
> 
> 
> Here are a couple pics of some of my driver testing over the last few months. There were quite a few more than even this that I went through.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source units


Look I am not gonna I don't know what **** is going in those pics specially the one where there's 4 mics I know that I got audio stiffie from looking at those head units and brax amps and general mayhem that is this build !


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## Jheitt142

Am I right in seeing this is a fully equipped 'civilian' version of a connect? Not just the usual fleet spec delivery van? I loved the look of the first ones we got in north America but you couldn't get one with anything in it. 

If this is a regular spec driver than it has my attention! 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## toneloc2

optimaprime said:


> Look I am not gonna I don't know what **** is going in those pics specially the one where there's 4 mics I know that I got audio stiffie from looking at those head units and brax amps and general mayhem that is this build !


captainobvious there is help out there for this hording problem your having,,,,, do we need to do an intervention,,,,,


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## High Resolution Audio

toneloc2 said:


> captainobvious there is help out there for this hording problem your having,,,,, do we need to do an intervention,,,,,


Steve is not hoarding. He is testing head units and drivers in order to pick the very best. He is selling gear after testing.


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## Inese

And you definitely need the one that Clay and John (subterFUSE) use :thumbsup: - Comprehensive Review: " APL1 "...
(can`t insert link though haven`t posts enough)


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## BigAl205

Mic10is said:


> Hmmm interesting choice of vehicles to do a system... Thats the kind of vehicle you get when you realize you need to haul a baby around...... Are we missing any other news besides the upcoming install? ??


privateobvious? 

Nice-looking ride, Steve. I can't wait to see where this build goes.


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## cmusic

captainobvious said:


> Will you be at finals again this year?
> 
> If so, the finished vehicle will be there.


I should be there, but not competing. I look forward to listening to the new system.


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## Babs

Mic10is said:


> Hmmm interesting choice of vehicles to do a system... Thats the kind of vehicle you get when you realize you need to haul a baby around...... Are we missing any other news besides the upcoming install? ??


I posed that very question at the meet.  Would make quite a good kid hauler. The interior of this thing is really impressive. It's "right-sized" for a mini-van, and certainly a perfect kid/grocery hauler. And for what's under the hood, it'll get out of it's own way as well. Interesting vehicle.. They definitely didn't market it in the kid-hauler mini-van segment, but I think it'd be a great one.


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## MrGreen83

That Pioneer deck looks realllllly familiar. Think I saw it in the green Neon a couple weeks ago 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Silvercoat

captainobvious said:


> So about the build...
> Over the last few months I have been auditioning a *bunch* of equipment, both source units and speakers. I have decided on the source unit I will use which is the Sony RSX-GS9. I like the convenience of high quality digital media and the Sony offers excellent sound quality.
> After demoing so many excellent high end speakers, I really enjoyed the Scanspeak 25W 10" and the RAAL ribbon tweeter. For midranges I am currently between the Satori MR13P and the Accuton C90-6-724. The Scan 25W is an outstanding woofer and has really impressed me with its resolution and tonality- able to play upper midbass/lower midrange content very cleanly while also having some balls in the sub 50hz range.
> The RAAL ribbon is an amazing tweeter. It is about the most natural and dynamic tweeter I have heard to date. The problem with these is that they are huge.
> 
> 
> As we know, once you install speakers in to a vehicle, there are many other obstacles to overcome and there is no guarantee that they will sound anywhere near as nice even when optimally integrated. Because of this, my next step is to do some demoing with the potential speakers temporarily mounted in the vehicle. I'll use towels and absorptive materials around them to help reduce rear wave interference and they will all be played through the Sony unit and the Brax Matrix amps I'll be using in this build. My current plan is to do the midranges mounted high in the door shelf/sail corner area and tweeters off the a-pillar/dash area. The midbasses will be installed in the kicks, vented into the frame rails (not to exterior like I had done previously with the Mazda).
> 
> 
> Here are a couple pics of some of my driver testing over the last few months. There were quite a few more than even this that I went through.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source units



The SQ/ft in these pictures must be like 7,857,290 or better....


That is a lot of lovely equipment.


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## Notloudenuf

I'm excited to see this build come together! 

And not the place; but thank you for your help with my tune at the meet.

I'm ready to hear this one in person when it gets finished.


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## captainobvious

JayinMI said:


> Also, there must be nearly $10k in equipment on that table, and I bet you aren't even going to use it all. lol
> 
> What made you go with the Transit Connect?



Thanks Jay- I agree about the drop/wheels. It was necessary :laugh:


The Brax Matrix amps are definitely going in to the vehicle as is the Sony GS9. There are plenty of speakers and such that aren't, but I really wanted to take my time and listen to a lot of different pieces to see what I liked best. I had the opportunity to try a bunch of really excellent drivers and many of them could have been used to make an outstanding system in this vehicle, but some of the drivers really stood out to me and those were the ones that made it to my top few selections that I wanted to try out IN the vehicle environment to see how they would perform there.

I liked the Transit Connect because of the possibilities for the system and because of it's functionality. It's an automatic that the wife can drive unlike my manual mazda, it gets good mileage and I actually like the styling overall with some mods on it.


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## captainobvious

oabeieo said:


> Sub'd
> 
> You have accution -**** ....some serious speakers.
> This should be good.
> Those amps are the **** bro I am so jealous!



Hey you've got some fun stuff going on in your Fit as well bro 

The Accutons are VERY revealing speakers. Those and the Satori MR13P are different animals, but both are very excellent. Which one I use will really come down to what plays better in the vehicle.


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## captainobvious

Mic10is said:


> Hmmm interesting choice of vehicles to do a system... Thats the kind of vehicle you get when you realize you need to haul a baby around...... Are we missing any other news besides the upcoming install? ??



I'll be hauling around 3 German babies, yessir 












.


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## DavidRam

captainobvious said:


> Thanks Jay- I agree about the drop/wheels. It was necessary :laugh:
> 
> 
> The Brax Matrix amps are definitely going in to the vehicle as is the Sony GS9. There are plenty of speakers and such that aren't, but I really wanted to take my time and listen to a lot of different pieces to see what I liked best. I had the opportunity to try a bunch of really excellent drivers and many of them could have been used to make an outstanding system in this vehicle, but some of the drivers really stood out to me and those were the ones that made it to my top few selections that I wanted to try out IN the vehicle environment to see how they would perform there.
> 
> I liked the Transit Connect because of the possibilities for the system and because of it's functionality. It's an automatic that the wife can drive unlike my manual mazda, it gets good mileage and I actually like the styling overall with some mods on it.


I love the styling! I'm German born and raised, and these types of vehicles were/are very common place on European streets. 
Hats off to you for a very unique choice!

Btw, Garlex design body kit...


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## captainobvious

street.terror said:


> Am I right in seeing this is a fully equipped 'civilian' version of a connect? Not just the usual fleet spec delivery van? I loved the look of the first ones we got in north America but you couldn't get one with anything in it.
> 
> If this is a regular spec driver than it has my attention!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk



Yessir that's correct. This body style started in 2014. They call the passsenger version a "wagon". (Transit Connect Wagon) It comes in 2 different wheelbases- short and long. The one I have is the LWB (long wheel base) and it differs from the short in that it is about 12-16" shorter in overall length, and mine has 3rd row seats which the SWB version does not have. I don't plan on using any 3rd row seats as that will be my space for the equipment. The second row can be had as a bench style seat or 2 captains seats which is what I have.
An important difference between the commercial and passenger versions in the floor pan. The passenger version has a deeper floor that allows the seats to be folded down into where the commercial version is raised and flat. If you ever plan to do seat rails, the commercial version is not your best bet because it blocks travel of the front seats past a certain point.


Yes, this is a stock version. The only change is the springs and wheels/tires.


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## captainobvious

MrGreen83 said:


> That Pioneer deck looks realllllly familiar. Think I saw it in the green Neon a couple weeks ago
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Nah, Leonard had a Pioneer DEX-P9 in his for a while. He recently changed out to an even older deck


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## captainobvious

Notloudenuf said:


> I'm excited to see this build come together!
> 
> And not the place; but thank you for your help with my tune at the meet.
> 
> I'm ready to hear this one in person when it gets finished.



I just moved a couple sliders- you already had it very nice- that was all you bro. 

Thanks and you'll definitely get the chance at the next Bertholomey NCSQ gtg.


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## captainobvious

DavidRam said:


> I love the styling! I'm German born and raised, and these types of vehicles were/are very common place on European streets.
> Hats off to you for a very unique choice!
> 
> Btw, Garlex design body kit...



Thanks 

Yeah Martin (Krautnotrice) said the same thing to me at the recent NCSQ gtg. Very much a euro style. I dig it.


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## danno14

captainobvious said:


> New shoes:
> 
> 19x8.5 with 245/35zr19" rubber. Sport springs lower the ride height by appx 1.5" front and 2.5" rear.


I have never, ever, seen one of these that looks even remotely appealing.... until now! I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with and implement.


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## Babs

danno14 said:


> I have never, ever, seen one of these that looks even remotely appealing.... until now! I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with and implement.



I know right! That took vision. You wouldn't have been able to give me one of these until seeing this one. And the cockpit is actually pretty sweet too. I pulled into Jason's at the NCSQ meet, saw it sitting there, and thought "well ok alrighty then! You're a good looker Mr uh uh uh van!"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## captainobvious

Well, I've been doing some listening now IN the vehicle and checking locations and aiming. Unfortunately, the RAALs are just not going to work because of how much viewing angle they take away. I went for a drive and it just wouldn't have been safe to keep them in that location unfortunately.






The good news though is that I have several other outstanding alternatives to check out.

Gerald- I think something like these RAALs would be pretty epic in your vehicle though as you already have those corner tower enclosures there and these would fit in that space perfectly without taking away from your current visibility. If you'd like to demo them sometime, let me know. I think you would be surprised 



That said, the drivers I am testing in the space are (and will be): 

Mundorf AMT:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...rf-amt21cm2.1-c-air-motion-tweeter-amt-4-ohm/


Scan full format R3004-6620 ring radiator:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...tor-r3004/6620-00-1-tweeter-black-face-plate/

Audison Thesis TH1.5

And the new Satori Beryllium TW29BN:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...tw29bn-b-beryllium-dome-tweeter-black-flange/


I got the kicks 90% of the way completed for this vehicle because the midbasses really aren't going to change position or angle and it's tough to demo them on towels. I still have more smoothing work to do, some acoustic treatments inside the enclosures and on the outer backs to add and then to wrap/cover them...but they are close enough to get a general idea.


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## High Resolution Audio

Sorry about the ribbons not being able to fit. I know you were excited about them and so was I. Kicks are looking good, though.


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## naiku

Can't wait to see this finished, really is a cool vehicle and I think fly's under the radar of most people.


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## captainobvious

Thanks Gerald and Ian.


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## bassfreak85

I really love the Amt tweeters. I think they sound extremely natural! Warning they don't have a huge dispersion patteren..


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## nadams5755

What if you put the AMTs in the sails and mids on the pillars? Will they fit without obstructing too much? AMT depth put them too close?


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## ErinH

Progressing right along. Nice work thus far!


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## captainobvious

bassfreak85 said:


> I really love the Amt tweeters. I think they sounds extremely natural! Warning they don't have a huge dispersion patteren..


The Mundorf AMT's are very, very good for sure.

As is typical for most ribbon, amt and planar drivers, they exhibit excellent polar response in the horizontal plane but have much more roll off in the vertical plane. In a car, this could be advantageous by reducing reflected content above and below the aiming angle of the driver. Like reflections off of the dash or windshield. 

Here are the horizontal and vertical response graphs for the specific driver I have. Note that the horizontal is shown in 0-15-30 degrees and the vertical is shown in 0-5-15 degrees. At 30 degrees it would be far more rolled off. What's nice here is that despite the roll-off, the shape of the response is very similar.







nadams5755 said:


> What if you put the AMTs in the sails and mids on the pillars? Will they fit without obstructing too much? AMT depth put them too close?


The RAAL tweeters are a ribbon ( I assume that's the one you meant- the big one that is obstructing view) and their depth is really what makes it tough. They are over 3" deep. They *could* go in the side window area but then they would stick out kind of far and have even more glass for reflections that could cause issues.

The Mundorf AMT's are a standard full format round faceplate and a much more manageable mounting depth :












.


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## Mic10is

I think I missed it even when skimming back through---but whats in the Kicks?


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## captainobvious

The kick mounted woofers are the Scanspeak 25W-8565 10". They are so good I'm going to build a set of home speakers with them. I think I'll be providing them with plenty of airspace as I'm venting into some cavities in the vehicle (not to exterior) which I also stuffed loosely with recycled denim. I'll measure the Q in the kick enclosures once they are finished and sealed up to the mounting location and then compare to the free-air Q and compare to get an idea.


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## bassfreak85

captainobvious said:


> The Mundorf AMT's are very, very good for sure.
> 
> As is typical for most ribbon, amt and planar drivers, they exhibit excellent polar response in the horizontal plane but have much more roll off in the vertical plane. In a car, this could be advantageous by reducing reflected content above and below the aiming angle of the driver. Like reflections off of the dash or windshield.
> 
> Here are the horizontal and vertical response graphs for the specific driver I have. Note that the horizontal is shown in 0-15-30 degrees and the vertical is shown in 0-5-15 degrees. At 30 degrees it would be far more rolled off. What's nice here is that despite the roll-off, the shape of the response is very similar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The RAAL tweeters are a ribbon ( I assume that's the one you meant- the big one that is obstructing view) and their depth is really what makes it tough. They are over 3" deep. They *could* go in the side window area but then they would stick out kind of far and have even more glass for reflections that could cause issues.
> 
> The Mundorf AMT's are a standard full format round faceplate and a much more manageable mounting depth :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


oh **** that diver is NICE. my lil ceramics sound great but no lie ill take the AMT over any driver except for electrostatics maybe..
i really want to contact dayton audio and see if they will do some prototypes for me.


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## bassfreak85

how is the dreaded 2k to 3500 region on those drivers? at least i dread that region. i HATE any peak around there my rears are super sensitive(naturally).


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## claydo

I was a lil taken back when I saw this wagon sitting in Jason's driveway as well, I was immediately drawn to it, and started asking who's it was.....lol. It's a nice looking van, and after checking out the interior, looks like an excellent platform for a killer instal. Anyways, in for the madness!


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## captainobvious

bassfreak85 said:


> how is the dreaded 2k to 3500 region on those drivers? at least i fread that region. i HATE any peak around there my rears are super sensitive(naturally).


Very good actually- very smooth there. They have excellent detail and composure. They also have a lot of output capability with their power rating and sensitivity.


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## BigAl205

How many 18's are going in the back?


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## SkizeR

BigAl205 said:


> How many 18's are going in the back?


Yes

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## bassfreak85

captainobvious said:


> Very good actually- very smooth there. They have excellent detail and composure. They also have a lot of output capability with their power rating and sensitivity.


Ive never heard the highend amts. Man I got to get my hands on them. The last set reminded me of some home audio electrostats..


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## JWAT15

bassfreak85 said:


> how is the dreaded 2k to 3500 region on those drivers? at least i fread that region. i HATE any peak around there my rears are super sensitive(naturally).


Theres no worse frequency sound in the world!!! i literally die 90% of the time.


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## Notloudenuf

JWAT15 said:


> i literally die 90% of the time.


RIP JWAT15


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## bertholomey

I too mourn the Mazda, but the potential is nearly limitless in this vehicle (the RAALs being a limit). The wheels and lowering really looked great in person, and I LOVED the glass roof....that made the whole thing for me! Love the time you are spending to get the 'right' gear for this project.


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## Zippy

Sub'd for sure. Can not wait to see the end result.


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## LBaudio

Steve, your choosen equipment is top notch, very very nice, and so is your new car on those rims......COOL, cant wait to see it finished!


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## oabeieo

captainobvious said:


> Well, I've been doing some listening now IN the vehicle and checking locations and aiming. Unfortunately, the RAALs are just not going to work because of how much viewing angle they take away. I went for a drive and it just wouldn't have been safe to keep them in that location unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good news though is that I have several other outstanding alternatives to check out.
> 
> Gerald- I think something like these RAALs would be pretty epic in your vehicle though as you already have those corner tower enclosures there and these would fit in that space perfectly without taking away from your current visibility. If you'd like to demo them sometime, let me know. I think you would be surprised
> 
> 
> 
> That said, the drivers I am testing in the space are (and will be):
> 
> Mundorf AMT:
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...rf-amt21cm2.1-c-air-motion-tweeter-amt-4-ohm/
> 
> 
> Scan full format R3004-6620 ring radiator:
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...tor-r3004/6620-00-1-tweeter-black-face-plate/
> 
> Audison Thesis TH1.5
> 
> And the new Satori Beryllium TW29BN:
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...tw29bn-b-beryllium-dome-tweeter-black-flange/
> 
> 
> I got the kicks 90% of the way completed for this vehicle because the midbasses really aren't going to change position or angle and it's tough to demo them on towels. I still have more smoothing work to do, some acoustic treatments inside the enclosures and on the outer backs to add and then to wrap/cover them...but they are close enough to get a general idea.




Oh man, this is frikkin badass!


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## captainobvious

oabeieo said:


> Oh man, this is frikkin badass!




Thanks buddy!

I've been using the last couple of weeks to demo speakers IN the car and in different locations/configurations to get a feel for how the vehicle is interacting with them and what combination will yield the best potential. Right now I'm actually really liking the mids in the dash corners aimed in a fashion where they interact as least as possible with the surrounding reflective surfaces and the tweeters mounted out wide in the sail window area. This provides good width and a very deep presentation of the stage. This is all without full tuning and drivers on towels. Basic crossovers and level and a tape measure TA for the location they are in. I set the speakers up on a pair of switcher boxes to make things easier.


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## captainobvious

BigAl205 said:


> How many 18's are going in the back?




Could certainly fit them. But I do want to retain some nice functionality with being able to fold down the middle seats and transport things and with all of the large amplifiers, extra equipment and airspace required for enclosures, that could be tight.

I really liked the sub bass response I had at the end of last season with the pair of 12's. I think I'm going to add a 3rd for more cone area and roll with that. With the manageable mounting depth of the subs, I can keep a reasonable raised floor height and still provide about 4 cubes sealed for them.


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## Elgrosso

captainobvious said:


> ...


Wow cool.
What do we see here on the front part, some cld, or just tape?
And did you used the filler directly onto this? no cloth wrap?


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## captainobvious

Elgrosso said:


> Wow cool.
> What do we see here on the front part, some cld, or just tape?
> And did you used the filler directly onto this? no cloth wrap?


That's aluminum tape. This is certainly not the easy way or the method I'm sure many pro's would use, but I made a support structure out of the aluminum tape to layup my materials on. Why? Because I wanted the shell to be very thick and strong. I laid up duraglass fiberglass strand reinforced over the structure, followed by a mixture of duraglass, body filler, resin and chopped strands. After that I used body filler and shaped. This makes the walls about 1/2" thick or better in most places and makes the enclosures very dense and strong. I will line the insides with some CLD and loosely lay in some recycled denim for absorption. I already laid in the acoustic material in the cavities these will vent in to.

I could have stretched fleece and built up from the outside and have done this with other pieces. Could also have used 2 part foam, shaped and then glassed over it, but again I really wanted this to be thick, dense and strong without building out too far and keeping the profile lower. I used this method for my previous kicks and they never gave me problems with resonances and they were strong enough that you could run them over


----------



## captainobvious

Oh also, with my previous kick build, I used (SoundDeadenerShowdown.com) Don's butyl rope product as the sealing gasket mechanism and decoupler on the back of the kick enclosures. I'll do that again as it worked extremely well. You can absolutely do without any screw fasteners when using that stuff if you have a nicely formed and fitting mold that you've built off of. I removed my kick pieces twice in the last car and it was very strenuous getting those out. I had to pry them out.  That stuff is awesome.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Can't wait to hear this rig at the next NCSQ meet. I bet it's hard to handle in the sq lanes when it's done. Just the uniqueness alone sets it apart from the rest. The OP probably has more money in gear than I paid for my whole vehicleIf not I bet it's more than half!


----------



## bbfoto

Steve, I'm definitely interested to see the progression of this TC install. Looks great so far. :thumbsup:


----------



## Elgrosso

captainobvious said:


> That's aluminum tape. This is certainly not the easy way or the method I'm sure many pro's would use, but I made a support structure out of the aluminum tape to layup my materials on. Why? Because I wanted the shell to be very thick and strong. I laid up duraglass fiberglass strand reinforced over the structure, followed by a mixture of duraglass, body filler, resin and chopped strands. After that I used body filler and shaped. This makes the walls about 1/2" thick or better in most places and makes the enclosures very dense and strong. I will line the insides with some CLD and loosely lay in some recycled denim for absorption. I already laid in the acoustic material in the cavities these will vent in to.
> 
> I could have stretched fleece and built up from the outside and have done this with other pieces. Could also have used 2 part foam, shaped and then glassed over it, but again I really wanted this to be thick, dense and strong without building out too far and keeping the profile lower. I used this method for my previous kicks and they never gave me problems with resonances and they were strong enough that you could run them over


Great thx, good way to build up thickness while controlling the external volume, and without working from the "inside".





captainobvious said:


> Oh also, with my previous kick build, I used (SoundDeadenerShowdown.com) Don's butyl rope product as the sealing gasket mechanism and decoupler on the back of the kick enclosures. I'll do that again as it worked extremely well. You can absolutely do without any screw fasteners when using that stuff if you have a nicely formed and fitting mold that you've built off of. I removed my kick pieces twice in the last car and it was very strenuous getting those out. I had to pry them out.  That stuff is awesome.


I have some of these left, not from Don but PE maybe. Anyway, I planned to use thick foam as decoupler but this sounds better, good way to isolate and attach in the same time, thx!


----------



## TheDavel

I've been considering one of these for my next vehicle Steve! 

Congrats on the new car!

I know the entire community as a whole looks forward to the next 5 years of installs that this gem will see! 

I suspect that you're only planning 1 install, but we know what will really happen over time.


----------



## lowcel

TheDavel said:


> I've been considering one of these for my next vehicle Steve!
> 
> Congrats on the new car!
> 
> I know the entire community as a whole looks forward to the next 5 years of installs that this gem will see!
> 
> *I suspect that you're only planning 1 install, but we know what will really happen over time.*


LOL, I love the last line. We all know it's true. :laugh:


----------



## captainobvious

TheDavel said:


> I've been considering one of these for my next vehicle Steve!
> 
> Congrats on the new car!
> 
> I know the entire community as a whole looks forward to the next 5 years of installs that this gem will see!
> 
> I suspect that you're only planning 1 install, but we know what will really happen over time.



Thanks Dave- you know me well bud. 

I loved the work you did on the Mazda trunk and am mimicking some of that layout on the new one I do. That was the best sub bass response I ever had in that vehicle which is a testament to the build of the box you did. Adding a 3rd sub should give me a pinch more output considering the larger volume of air in the cabin to compress. :surprised:

So far, I'm enjoying this vehicle. If you get one, definitely get the panoramic glass roof. It's a cool feature.

BTW- I need to try some of your eAsy Vert product sometime. I hear great things about it. I typically use Rage Gold but keep hearing that the eAsy Matter and Vert are the way to go. I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities to try them out with this project. :laugh:


Cheers


----------



## speakerpimp

captainobvious said:


> Source units


Whoa!!! Thanks for reminding me why I keep a collection of old radios around, and what I should be doing with them! Awesome build so far!


----------



## TheDavel

captainobvious said:


> Thanks Dave- you know me well bud.
> 
> I loved the work you did on the Mazda trunk and am mimicking some of that layout on the new one I do. That was the best sub bass response I ever had in that vehicle which is a testament to the build of the box you did. Adding a 3rd sub should give me a pinch more output considering the larger volume of air in the cabin to compress. :surprised:
> 
> So far, I'm enjoying this vehicle. If you get one, definitely get the panoramic glass roof. It's a cool feature.
> 
> BTW- I need to try some of your eAsy Vert product sometime. I hear great things about it. I typically use Rage Gold but keep hearing that the eAsy Matter and Vert are the way to go. I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities to try them out with this project. :laugh:
> 
> 
> Cheers


I'll get the pano roof for sure!

Even with the embarrassing glue issues I had with your build, it was very cool. I'm glad the enclosure sounded how you wanted and needed it. I cant wait to see what you do next!

As for the eAsy fillers, they are pretty awesome. I'll see if something can make it in the mail to you, accidents do happen. 

Perhaps I'll become a "vendor" on here and offer all members a minimum of10% off all orders.


----------



## captainobvious

TheDavel said:


> I'll get the pano roof for sure!
> 
> Even with the embarrassing glue issues I had with your build, it was very cool. I'm glad the enclosure sounded how you wanted and needed it. I cant wait to see what you do next!
> 
> As for the eAsy fillers, they are pretty awesome. I'll see if something can make it in the mail to you, accidents do happen.
> 
> Perhaps I'll become a "vendor" on here and offer all members a minimum of10% off all orders.


Sounds like a nice accident there 

Glue is out of your control brother  And it was no big deal. A little of my DAP HHR and good as new.

That would be great for the community here. No more cheap fillers! Make sanding eAsy !


----------



## SkizeR

TheDavel said:


> I've been considering one of these for my next vehicle Steve!
> 
> Congrats on the new car!
> 
> I know the entire community as a whole looks forward to the next 5 years of installs that this gem will see!
> 
> I suspect that you're only planning 1 install, but we know what will really happen over time.


He rises!

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## danno14

TheDavel said:


> Perhaps I'll become a "vendor" on here and offer all members a minimum of10% off all orders.


Dooo eeet!!!!!
Puhleeze


----------



## Mike Dee562

Are the BGs for sale?


----------



## captainobvious

Mike Dee562 said:


> Are the BGs for sale?



They are, yes.

I have Neo3pdr's, neo8S's and neo10's.


----------



## probillygun

Just seen this build thread bro! Keep up the work ethic! We need points for Finals!


----------



## captainobvious

Thanks Bill.

Doing some test fitting... I still need to do some final shaping and smoothing before they are ready for finishing of course, but I wanted to make sure the fit was good before I went further.











Oh, and I also decided to stuff any of the open spaces and cavities with some Roxul Safe N Sound to provide more absorption. I'll also be doing this behind the panels in the back as well. It's easy, cheap and effective.




Also pulled (2) runs of 1/0awg wire from the battery to the back for power. Pics of that later when I get the new battery and circuit breakers installed under the hood.






.


----------



## JayinMI

Looks like the kick panel area is double layered? I love that you already cut holes in a brand new van. lol Can't wait to hear it!

Jay


----------



## dgr932

Love the new rolling studio. Can't wait to see how the install goes. I'll be tuned in for this one.


----------



## High Resolution Audio

Looking good. Nice progress.


----------



## captainobvious

JayinMI said:


> Looks like the kick panel area is double layered? I love that you already cut holes in a brand new van. lol Can't wait to hear it!
> 
> Jay


Actually, that's the back off the fiberglass mold and where it meets the cutout section of the metal.


----------



## JayinMI

Yeah, I saw that...I mean that there was a sort of compartment where body pieces come together. Sort of like in a Civic. Sort of making it into an enclosure.
Your fab work is just getting better and better, man. Great work.

Jay


----------



## captainobvious

Thanks Jay  Yep, that is right, in the corners they have a piece that creates an enclosure of airspace bridging the firewall area, floor and left frame rail area together. I had an area like that in the Mazda too.


----------



## captainobvious

Oh, and these things rock btw.


----------



## SkizeR

mmmmmmmmm. almost to pretty to not frame and hang


----------



## Babs

I used leftover poly fill in the wheel wells for the IB subs, crammed in tight with leftover carpet backing, stuffed in bags.. I think I'm going to pull that and try your Roxul product. Looks like good stuff, and easily picked up at the store.


----------



## Babs

JayinMI said:


> Yeah, I saw that...I mean that there was a sort of compartment where body pieces come together. Sort of like in a Civic. Sort of making it into an enclosure.





captainobvious said:


> Thanks Jay  Yep, that is right, in the corners they have a piece that creates an enclosure of airspace bridging the firewall area, floor and left frame rail area together. I had an area like that in the Mazda too.


I see what you both did there.


----------



## 20to20

Awesome job steve ... your killin it bro... gonna be one hell of a mobile sound lab when it's "done" ... can't wait to see/hear it... I know I don't have to tell u but , keep up the good work!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

20to20 said:


> Awesome job steve ... your killin it bro... gonna be one hell of a mobile sound lab when it's "done" ... can't wait to see/hear it... I know I don't have to tell u but , keep up the good work!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks, much appreciated.


----------



## oabeieo

captainobvious said:


> Oh, and these things rock btw.



Nice! 

I like your collection btw. 
Sick kicks also!

What's your opinion of the accution you have? 
Is it as good as it's numbers say.


----------



## JayinMI

Babs said:


> I see what you both did there.


Originally, I was like "So, it has a compartment in the kicks...like in a Civic sedan, that would make it really easy to do kicks." But I thought that might be a little obvious. lol

Jay


----------



## captainobvious

oabeieo said:


> Nice!
> 
> I like your collection btw.
> Sick kicks also!
> 
> What's your opinion of the accution you have?
> Is it as good as it's numbers say.



Thanks bud 

I demo'd many speakers in my demo room of the house and then took my favorites to the car to see how they fared in the potential positions/angles in the destructive vehicle environment. I demo'd them all with simple crossover and tape measure time alignment, no eq.

The Accuton mids are very revealing and detailed. They don't have as much lower midrange body as they Satori, but close to the same in that regard as the Scan 12m. They are very nice midranges for sure. And their design is very interesting- particularly the mounting. Very interesting and different from what others are doing.
In the end, I just liked the performance of the Satori in the car the best after many hours of listening and comparing and also combining different pairings of mid/tweeter and location.
For what it's worth, I liked the Satori mid the best in the house and in the car. Once I see what kind of enclosure volume I will have I'll be able to see the qtc and hopefully keep that as low as possible for minimum ringing issues.

The kicks are almost there. I just need to do some more smoothing/shaping to get them a little nicer and they will be ready to finish and install. I should get better performance from them then I was even getting in my testing since they will be decoupled and sealed into their locations with EBR and venting fully into those open cavities. I'm interested to measure the qtc installed as compared to the qts of the driver free-air to see how they are playing with the airspace they are venting into. Initial testing was very nice, but didn't have quite as much low end output as I had in the listening room in the large 4cuft+ enclosures. Expected though since they aren't fully installed and sealed in yet. :blush:


----------



## captainobvious

So I got home yesterday and had a nice package waiting for me from my friend Dave (TheDavel) which contained some eAsy fab products - Matter and Vert. These are 2 fillers I have been interested in trying as I have heard some good things about them. I typically use Evercoat Rage Gold as my standard filler, Evercoat Poly Flex as a nice finishing top coat and then Evercoat Slick Sand or Super Build to lock down and provide a really consistent top finish. 

Yesterday, I wanted to get some of that smoothing work started on the kicks so I put the eAsy Matter product to the test. It's a lightweight filler in a gray color which uses a standard blue activator. 




The filler spreads very easily and smoothly and has about the same open/work time as the Evercoat product I'm used to. Of course, this all depends on how much activator you mix in and the temperature/humidity.




What I find very nice about this product is that it sands not only easily but to a VERY smooth finish without the pinholing and air gaps I typically get with other products. This is pretty awesome because it saves you time from applying more applications of thinner filler products (especially if you were doing a painted surface or texture instead of wrapping) and in some cases you wouldn't even need a poly primer.





For reference, these two photo's show some close ups and I sanded with 120 grit. The Matter sands somewhere between as fine as my Poly Flex and my poly primer which I was very surprised by. 

So I just wanted to share that if you do any fabrication work, I would definitely recommend picking yourself up some of the Matter filler from eAsy and giving it a try. This will definitely save me some time and also expense of other products.

Nice job Dave!

I typically would have hit these pieces with poly primer but after using this, I don't think I'll even need to. They are going to be ready to wrap after I sand the few little touch up spots I missed last night.


----------



## oabeieo

captainobvious said:


> Thanks bud
> 
> I demo'd many speakers in my demo room of the house and then took my favorites to the car to see how they fared in the potential positions/angles in the destructive vehicle environment. I demo'd them all with simple crossover and tape measure time alignment, no eq.
> 
> The Accuton mids are very revealing and detailed. They don't have as much lower midrange body as they Satori, but close to the same in that regard as the Scan 12m. They are very nice midranges for sure. And their design is very interesting- particularly the mounting. Very interesting and different from what others are doing.
> In the end, I just liked the performance of the Satori in the car the best after many hours of listening and comparing and also combining different pairings of mid/tweeter and location.
> For what it's worth, I liked the Satori mid the best in the house and in the car. Once I see what kind of enclosure volume I will have I'll be able to see the qtc and hopefully keep that as low as possible for minimum ringing issues.
> 
> The kicks are almost there. I just need to do some more smoothing/shaping to get them a little nicer and they will be ready to finish and install. I should get better performance from them then I was even getting in my testing since they will be decoupled and sealed into their locations with EBR and venting fully into those open cavities. I'm interested to measure the qtc installed as compared to the qts of the driver free-air to see how they are playing with the airspace they are venting into. Initial testing was very nice, but didn't have quite as much low end output as I had in the listening room in the large 4cuft+ enclosures. Expected though since they aren't fully installed and sealed in yet. :blush:


Satori is indeed a nice smooth loudspeaker. 
Good choice! 

Just the driver in the space , clean un-eqed signal. 
Excellent way to quickly see the little characters of a speaker indeed! 

You got it, lower QTc. Less efficient, but way worth the trade off in sq and more manageable bottomend.

I got to get my but over to eas and meet Dave, there right up the street from my house. I want to try that filler!


----------



## captainobvious

oabeieo said:


> Satori is indeed a nice smooth loudspeaker.
> Good choice!
> 
> Just the driver in the space , clean un-eqed signal.
> Excellent way to quickly see the little characters of a speaker indeed!
> 
> You got it, lower QTc. Less efficient, but way worth the trade off in sq and more manageable bottomend.
> 
> I got to get my but over to eas and meet Dave, there right up the street from my house. I want to try that filler!



Yeah I prefer less ringing from a high Q enclosure and smoother overall sound. 

That Matter is really an awesome filler. I don't even have to poly prime these pieces if I want to do texture/paint because the sanding properties are so smooth. I'll definitely be using that from here on out.


----------



## JayinMI

oabeieo said:


> I got to get my but over to eas and meet Dave, there right up the street from my house. I want to try that filler!


Dave lives in Italy now. But I imagine Micah would be there.

Jay


----------



## oabeieo

JayinMI said:


> Dave lives in Italy now. But I imagine Micah would be there.
> 
> Jay


Oh word...we'll yeah definitely. I wanna see the shop and try that stuff out.


----------



## Coppertone

Steve I'm sure that speed issue your concern, but look into this and tell me what you think.
https://www.pedalcommander.com/product-category/ford-transit-4th-gen-2014-2-3l-4-cyl-141-hp/


----------



## jode1967

Nice work Steve.
My first thought- no stone left unturned!


----------



## captainobvious

Coppertone said:


> Steve I'm sure that speed issue your concern, but look into this and tell me what you think.
> https://www.pedalcommander.com/product-category/ford-transit-4th-gen-2014-2-3l-4-cyl-141-hp/



Haven't had any issue with the throttle response. Thanks though!


----------



## Elgrosso

captainobvious said:


> That's aluminum tape. This is certainly not the easy way or the method I'm sure many pro's would use, but I made a support structure out of the aluminum tape to layup my materials on. Why? Because I wanted the shell to be very thick and strong. I laid up duraglass fiberglass strand reinforced over the structure, followed by a mixture of duraglass, body filler, resin and chopped strands. After that I used body filler and shaped. This makes the walls about 1/2" thick or better in most places and makes the enclosures very dense and strong. I will line the insides with some CLD and loosely lay in some recycled denim for absorption. I already laid in the acoustic material in the cavities these will vent in to.
> 
> I could have stretched fleece and built up from the outside and have done this with other pieces. Could also have used 2 part foam, shaped and then glassed over it, but again I really wanted this to be thick, dense and strong without building out too far and keeping the profile lower. I used this method for my previous kicks and they never gave me problems with resonances and they were strong enough that you could run them over


Now I can say I fully understand the value of your method...
It's been 2/3 days I’m trying to reinforce mine with either mat/filler/mixture of all sorts from the inside, onto the corners/edges.
The fleece seemed easy at first, but it is damn frustrating to not be able to fill right in this tight and hidden space, I'm sure I have a bunch of air pockets... 
Waste of material, bad ratio weight/rigidity, loss of volume etc
Next time I’ll sure try like you!


----------



## captainobvious

Thanks Elgrosso. Of course there are always other faster and probably more efficient methods that will still yield a similar (maybe even better) end result, but I just went with what I knew would work and build up that mass and strength I wanted.


Anyway, I got the first one wrapped today before I had to leave for a volleyball match. I think it came out pretty good overall. I did manage to get a little CA Activator residue on a small section, so I'm investigating how best to clean that off (if it's possible). Not sure if I can use something like SEM Solve on vinyl or if it's too aggressive.


Here's a few pics of the first one wrapped up 

This one is the backside. That's rubberized undercoating/bedliner. If it looks funky, that's because I used plastic over the metal panels before laying up my fiberglass so that is the actual shape of the fiberglass mold texture of the space. I like to use that as well as Butyl rope to provide some decoupling and a good seal to the location.


----------



## High Resolution Audio

Wow! Nice work on those pods. Looks factory!


----------



## deefIV

Great job all the way around! Did you build the grills or buy them?


----------



## captainobvious

High Resolution Audio said:


> Wow! Nice work on those pods. Looks factory!


Thanks Gerald! How's your system doing- any changes?



deefIV said:


> Great job all the way around! Did you build the grills or buy them?



Thank you sir. The grills are actually produced by Scanspeak. It's a very simple but effective design. They have a compression fit onto the flange of the speakers.


----------



## bbfoto

captainobvious said:


>



Looks fantastic, Steve. Love those grills, too! Hope they are heavy enough to not give way under misguided feet. And maybe I missed it, but are these secured to the vehicle in any way other than the sill plate and original kick-panel fasteners?

Ohhhhh, and now I know your secret weapon vinyl adhesive....MmmmMaple syrup!


----------



## BowDown

Wow that looks great Steve! Can't wait to hear it!


----------



## ErinH

yes!

looks great, bud!


----------



## captainobvious

bbfoto said:


> Looks fantastic, Steve. Love those grills, too! Hope they are heavy enough to not give way under misguided feet. And maybe I missed it, but are these secured to the vehicle in any way other than the sill plate and original kick-panel fasteners?
> 
> Ohhhhh, and now I know your secret weapon vinyl adhesive....MmmmMaple syrup!


Hahaha yup, it's the tastiest adhesive I have.
The grills have some curvature to them for cone excursion clearance which ads a good bit of strength, so yeah they should hold up just fine 



BowDown said:


> Wow that looks great Steve! Can't wait to hear it!


Thanks Justin!


----------



## High Resolution Audio

captainobvious said:


> Thanks Gerald! How's your system doing- any changes?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you sir. The grills are actually produced by Scanspeak. It's a very simple but effective design. They have a compression fit onto the flange of the speakers.


Yes a ton.......15 hours of tuning and now new mid-bass enclosures. Oh and a McIntosh Amp for mid-range duty. I hope to get it back to Driven II in June for SQology. Will you be done by then?


----------



## naiku

High Resolution Audio said:


> Yes a ton.......15 hours of tuning and now new mid-bass enclosures. I hope to get it back to Driven II in June for SQology. Will you be done by then?


Another reason for me to try and make that in June, another listen to your truck!


----------



## Black Rain

Is been awhile since I've been on here. Steve, this is an awesome build. I wish you the best in this new ride. If I understand, you are going to put 5"midrange and full frame tweeters on the dash with 10"MB in the kicks?

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


----------



## oabeieo

Let's give this thread a 5star. Amazing work and well planned system


----------



## Elgrosso

Agreed! Can't see how the process could be more thorough.


----------



## captainobvious

High Resolution Audio said:


> Yes a ton.......15 hours of tuning and now new mid-bass enclosures. Oh and a McIntosh Amp for mid-range duty. I hope to get it back to Driven II in June for SQology. Will you be done by then?


Wow- great! Same midbasses just with new enclosures? What needed to change about them- more airspace? Good call on the Mac amp. 

Regrettably, I won't be able to attend Chris' show at Driven in June as I'll be away with my wife for that weekend with prior plans. It will likely debut at the Hybrid GP in July and will definitely be at SVR though.




Black Rain said:


> Is been awhile since I've been on here. Steve, this is an awesome build. I wish you the best in this new ride. If I understand, you are going to put 5"midrange and full frame tweeters on the dash with 10"MB in the kicks?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


Hi Juan- good to hear from you buddy. Yep, you have that right  Combine that with (3) 12's in the back and some Brax Matrix power.



oabeieo said:


> Let's give this thread a 5star. Amazing work and well planned system





Elgrosso said:


> Agreed! Can't see how the process could be more thorough.


Thank you gents! Much appreciated. I really wanted to take the extra time to test the drivers and locations in the car to see what worked best for this vehicle. I think that will help in the end result.


----------



## High Resolution Audio

captainobvious said:


> Wow- great! Same midbasses just with new enclosures? What needed to change about them- more airspace? Good call on the Mac amp.
> 
> Regrettably, I won't be able to attend Chris' show at Driven in June as I'll be away with my wife for that weekend with prior plans. It will likely debut at the Hybrid GP in July and will definitely be at SVR though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Juan- good to hear from you buddy. Yep, you have that right  Combine that with (3) 12's in the back and some Brax Matrix power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you gents! Much appreciated. I really wanted to take the extra time to test the drivers and locations in the car to see what worked best for this vehicle. I think that will help in the end result.


Same mid-basses more volume.....as well as different baffle angle. My lows tracked across the sound stage about 6-7" lower than the mids and highs due to the downward angle. 

After hearing Erin's car I got hooked on the Mac sound. 

Sorry I won't see you in June, and the Hybrid GP is too far for me to travel, but Steel Valley is a good timeline to shoot for to get your build finished.....

Definitively looking forward to it!


----------



## hdrugs

Would you say the satori's have similarly characteristics to the tangband bamboo's


----------



## captainobvious

hdrugs said:


> Would you say the satori's have similarly characteristics to the tangband bamboo's



In my opinion it is a far superior midrange (Satori). Less distortion, higher sensitivity, smoother response, lower FS, more SD, etc. The Satori is also a larger driver and more expensive, but it is a much higher quality and higher performance speaker.

Have a look at the impedance curve alone of the TangBand W4-1320SJ Bamboo 4". It's not pretty. It's a decent sounding midrange, but in my experience- it is not close to the Satori. The Satori MR13P is an outstanding midrange like the Scanspeak Revelator. (But better in my opinion).


----------



## captainobvious

Got the other kick wrapped and started on the sub enclosure/amprack.


----------



## ErinH

man, those look killer.


----------



## SkizeR

"wrapping isnt my strong suit"


----------



## benny z

Those look great!

Maybe he meant rapping.


----------



## captainobvious

ErinH said:


> man, those look killer.





SkizeR said:


> "wrapping isnt my strong suit"





benny z said:


> Those look great!
> 
> Maybe he meant rapping.



:laugh: Thanks guys.

It helps when it's 4 way stretch and you have a heat gun handy. I took my time on them so probably about 5 times longer than a pro would take and they still aren't as perfect as they would be if Steve Cook or Russ had made them, but I'm liking them for my DIY attempt. If I had attempted some of the other nicer vinyls I have here which only stretch in 2 directions and not nearly as much as this stuff, I probably would have been up the creek.


----------



## SkizeR

stop being so humble lol. you killed em


----------



## captainobvious

I did get a marking on the lower part of one of them as I was using CA glue and activator on the backside edge to lock down the vinyl and unfortunately, some of the activator dripped to the front of the vinyl.
Afterwords I realized I could simply use the CA without the spray activator and just give it some time to start tacking up before pressing down the vinyl edge. The reason I ended up having to use that is because the DAP glue and bedliner spray on the back of the enclosures don't play well together 

Lessons learned for next time!


----------



## oabeieo

captainobvious said:


> I did get a marking on the lower part of one of them as I was using CA glue and activator on the backside edge to lock down the vinyl and unfortunately, some of the activator dripped to the front of the vinyl.
> Afterwords I realized I could simply use the CA without the spray activator and just give it some time to start tacking up before pressing down the vinyl edge. The reason I ended up having to use that is because the DAP glue and bedliner spray on the back of the enclosures don't play well together
> 
> Lessons learned for next time!



Sodium bicarbonate dries ca glue in a instant 
Basicly baking soda , I've used it and filled gaps with baking soda than pour thin ca on it and it turns to rock

Baking soda baking soda I got baking soda baking soda


----------



## bbfoto

ErinH said:


> man, those look killer.


My sentiments, exactly! Nice work, Steve.

And, yeah, baking soda works great as a CA activator. Almost too fast for some things, though, and it can get lumpy depending on how you apply it and the CA glue. You can also just use H2O in a fine mist spray bottle, or pre-bottled Evian fine mister aerosol cans. It's the water vapor that Activates the CA glue. Baking Soda absorbs water vapor/humidity, then transfers it to the CA, so Voilà!


----------



## hdrugs

Sorry for asking for advise on you build thread, ive been following your build and also erinh's

Im thinking of running a 8 inch midrange sealed surported by a 4"/3" or 2" cone driver between them and the tweets

This year

If i keep the 3 inch next to the 8 would there be alot of midrange transition between drivers

I've done a 7/4/1 prior and that voice between 2 drivers occurs but the 7 and 4 were seperate

Not a big issue but i got big voice 

Kind regards


----------



## captainobvious

If you can keep your midrange and tweeter close together that would be good.

I've run 8" woofers with 4" or 3" midranges and tweeters and that's fine. You just need to pay attention to the install location/angle and your crossover points and tuning.


----------



## hdrugs

Awesome, i would assume a 8 inch midrange would have big voice and due to size little required excursion to get abit of base 

With the mosconi 8to12 on the market its possible to run above 3 way front stage also the zapco stage v soon to be on market

Becuz prior i had great sucess with dual tweeters a scans aircirc to go low, and a super ambience tweeter like a nd16 to go high where the scans lack


----------



## Agent13

Nice build!


----------



## High Resolution Audio

captainobvious said:


> The kick mounted woofers are the Scanspeak 25W-8565 10". They are so good I'm going to build a set of home speakers with them. I think I'll be providing them with plenty of airspace as I'm venting into some cavities in the vehicle (not to exterior) which I also stuffed loosely with recycled denim. I'll measure the Q in the kick enclosures once they are finished and sealed up to the mounting location and then compare to the free-air Q and compare to get an idea.


Those are 8 ohm drivers. Is there a car amplifier that can handle an 8 Ohm load?


----------



## danno14

High Resolution Audio said:


> Those are 8 ohm drivers. Is there a car amplifier that can handle an 8 Ohm load?


Bear in mind that speakers present a dynamic load to an amp when playing music, and "the actual number" typically goes much higher than the rated number. As far as I know, EVERY car amp can handle an 8 ohm load, it's just that they often put out less power into 8, and don't have to "work" as hard.


----------



## Babs

High Resolution Audio said:


> Those are 8 ohm drivers. Is there a car amplifier that can handle an 8 Ohm load?



Got sub channels from XD1000/5v2's running an AE SBP12 8ohm sub each. No problem. If anything I'd suspect it should be cleaner. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## srtchris

following.


----------



## OCD66

captainobvious said:


> Got the other kick wrapped and started on the sub enclosure/amprack.


That's some tasty work


----------



## captainobvious

Gerald-


Have a read here. That will explain a lot about the 4ohm vs 8ohm stuff for you. Let us know if you have any questions. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...d-our-members/31-real-deal-8-ohm-drivers.html


----------



## SkizeR

bump..


----------



## rton20s

I just found this thread and for some reason none of the Photobucket links work. Fortunately, they are still live on photobucket acct and I was able to check them out. Great work Steve!


----------



## captainobvious

So as you can see above in Nick's picture, I had the wagon up at his place for him to work some magic and build some (incredible) pillars for my new mids along with some sail panels for my tweeters.

I must say, I am *highly* impressed by the pillars. They are some of the nicest I have seen. Very cleanly executed, beautiful lines and shape and aimed exactly the way I wanted them. He really overachieved on these and I was pretty stunned when I arrived and saw them.

As some of you know (and for those that do not), Nick is working on starting up his own business. I've known him for a while, but this is the first time I have had him do any fab work for me since I have been DIY'ing it for a bit  , so first off- a little review.

I wanted to handle some aspects of the build myself but I didn't want to be in the garage forever as time is limited for me with my other commitments and the donation build 240sx still in the driveway and being worked on. That, and wanting to make sure I have enough family time too, was a deciding factor in wanting to farm out some of the work on my build. Of course, I've seen some of Nicks previous work and knew he had skills and the desire, so it was a great fit. We went over what I was looking for and put our heads together on some ideas, but in the end I really just wanted the drivers installed in specific locations and angles and wanted to leave Nick the room to be creative with how he wanted to build and shape the pieces.

We also had a goal of trying to execute this to keep my vehicle in the ModEx class and it looks like he succeeded. The build off of the original surface of the pillar is just under 3.5" and it was no small feat for him to do this. He had to really sink those midranges deep into the pillars to accomplish it and then had to figure out how best to shape them to give a nice look and best performance. Luckily, the pillars in the TC are pretty large and leave a good amount of space behind them!

Nick's communication through the whole process was excellent. He checked in with me to get my opinion on some creative choices and to ensure they were going to meet my needs. If you are looking for a skilled installer who cares about his clients and wants to do everything he can to make sure you are happy with the end result- you've found your guy.

Thanks again Nick- you did one heck of a job on these things bro!





I will post up some more pics in the coming days.


----------



## 20to20

captainobvious said:


> So as you can see above in Nick's picture, I had the wagon up at his place for him to work some magic and build some (incredible) pillars for my new mids along with some sail panels for my tweeters.
> 
> I must say, I am *highly* impressed by the pillars. They are some of the nicest I have seen. Very cleanly executed, beautiful lines and shape and aimed exactly the way I wanted them. He really overachieved on these and I was pretty stunned when I arrived and saw them.
> 
> As some of you know (and for those that do not), Nick is working on starting up his own business. I've known him for a while, but this is the first time I have had him do any fab work for me since I have been DIY'ing it for a bit  , so first off- a little review.
> 
> I wanted to handle some aspects of the build myself but I didn't want to be in the garage forever as time is limited for me with my other commitments and the donation build 240sx still in the driveway and being worked on. That, and wanting to make sure I have enough family time too, was a deciding factor in wanting to farm out some of the work on my build. Of course, I've seen some of Nicks previous work and knew he had skills and the desire, so it was a great fit. We went over what I was looking for and put our heads together on some ideas, but in the end I really just wanted the drivers installed in specific locations and angles and wanted to leave Nick the room to be creative with how he wanted to build and shape the pieces.
> 
> We also had a goal of trying to execute this to keep my vehicle in the ModEx class and it looks like he succeeded. The build off of the original surface of the pillar is just under 3.5" and it was no small feat for him to do this. He had to really sink those midranges deep into the pillars to accomplish it and then had to figure out how best to shape them to give a nice look and best performance. Luckily, the pillars in the TC are pretty large and leave a good amount of space behind them!
> 
> Nick's communication through the whole process was excellent. He checked in with me to get my opinion on some creative choices and to ensure they were going to meet my needs. If you are looking for a skilled installer who cares about his clients and wants to do everything he can to make sure you are happy with the end result- you've found your guy.
> 
> Thanks again Nick- you did one heck of a job on these things bro!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post up some more pics in the coming days.




Hey steve are the pillars in that pic above your actual pillars? They look great!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## High Resolution Audio

captainobvious said:


> So as you can see above in Nick's picture, I had the wagon up at his place for him to work some magic and build some (incredible) pillars for my new mids along with some sail panels for my tweeters.
> 
> I must say, I am *highly* impressed by the pillars. They are some of the nicest I have seen. Very cleanly executed, beautiful lines and shape and aimed exactly the way I wanted them. He really overachieved on these and I was pretty stunned when I arrived and saw them.
> 
> As some of you know (and for those that do not), Nick is working on starting up his own business. I've known him for a while, but this is the first time I have had him do any fab work for me since I have been DIY'ing it for a bit  , so first off- a little review.
> 
> I wanted to handle some aspects of the build myself but I didn't want to be in the garage forever as time is limited for me with my other commitments and the donation build 240sx still in the driveway and being worked on. That, and wanting to make sure I have enough family time too, was a deciding factor in wanting to farm out some of the work on my build. Of course, I've seen some of Nicks previous work and knew he had skills and the desire, so it was a great fit. We went over what I was looking for and put our heads together on some ideas, but in the end I really just wanted the drivers installed in specific locations and angles and wanted to leave Nick the room to be creative with how he wanted to build and shape the pieces.
> 
> We also had a goal of trying to execute this to keep my vehicle in the ModEx class and it looks like he succeeded. The build off of the original surface of the pillar is just under 3.5" and it was no small feat for him to do this. He had to really sink those midranges deep into the pillars to accomplish it and then had to figure out how best to shape them to give a nice look and best performance. Luckily, the pillars in the TC are pretty large and leave a good amount of space behind them!
> 
> Nick's communication through the whole process was excellent. He checked in with me to get my opinion on some creative choices and to ensure they were going to meet my needs. If you are looking for a skilled installer who cares about his clients and wants to do everything he can to make sure you are happy with the end result- you've found your guy.
> 
> Thanks again Nick- you did one heck of a job on these things bro!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post up some more pics in the coming days.


I was looking at the photo of those pillars on facebook and thinking to myself, "Wow, those things look amazing. Finally, Nick aimed the speakers in the right direction." Then I read this post. Ha, ha. 

Nick does some amazing fabrication work. I'm very impressed how the spacing around each driver is symmetrical in all directions. First class for sure. I would use him for fab work without question. 

I'm glad you got some help along the way. Building a system is massive undertaking. Progress is being made!


----------



## SkizeR

captainobvious said:


> So as you can see above in Nick's picture, I had the wagon up at his place for him to work some magic and build some (incredible) pillars for my new mids along with some sail panels for my tweeters.
> 
> I must say, I am *highly* impressed by the pillars. They are some of the nicest I have seen. Very cleanly executed, beautiful lines and shape and aimed exactly the way I wanted them. He really overachieved on these and I was pretty stunned when I arrived and saw them.
> 
> As some of you know (and for those that do not), Nick is working on starting up his own business. I've known him for a while, but this is the first time I have had him do any fab work for me since I have been DIY'ing it for a bit  , so first off- a little review.
> 
> I wanted to handle some aspects of the build myself but I didn't want to be in the garage forever as time is limited for me with my other commitments and the donation build 240sx still in the driveway and being worked on. That, and wanting to make sure I have enough family time too, was a deciding factor in wanting to farm out some of the work on my build. Of course, I've seen some of Nicks previous work and knew he had skills and the desire, so it was a great fit. We went over what I was looking for and put our heads together on some ideas, but in the end I really just wanted the drivers installed in specific locations and angles and wanted to leave Nick the room to be creative with how he wanted to build and shape the pieces.
> 
> We also had a goal of trying to execute this to keep my vehicle in the ModEx class and it looks like he succeeded. The build off of the original surface of the pillar is just under 3.5" and it was no small feat for him to do this. He had to really sink those midranges deep into the pillars to accomplish it and then had to figure out how best to shape them to give a nice look and best performance. Luckily, the pillars in the TC are pretty large and leave a good amount of space behind them!
> 
> Nick's communication through the whole process was excellent. He checked in with me to get my opinion on some creative choices and to ensure they were going to meet my needs. If you are looking for a skilled installer who cares about his clients and wants to do everything he can to make sure you are happy with the end result- you've found your guy.
> 
> Thanks again Nick- you did one heck of a job on these things bro!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post up some more pics in the coming days.


Thank you Steve!


20to20 said:


> Hey steve are the pillars in that pic above your actual pillars? They look great!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, those are his pillars









Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## SkizeR

High Resolution Audio said:


> "Finally, Nick aimed the speakers in the right direction."


Not sure I understand..

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## Coppertone

Now even though I am not an " A " pillar type of guy, those I would be honored to have in any of my vehicles.


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## SkizeR

Coppertone said:


> Now even though I am not an " A " pillar type of guy, those I would be honored to have in any of my vehicles.


Thanks Ben


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## rton20s

SkizeR said:


> Not sure I understand..
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


Don't you usually aim them out the side window for dueling demos?


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## SkizeR

rton20s said:


> Don't you usually aim them out the side window for dueling demos?


hey man, just because im from NY doesnt mean i also like to fill my trunk lid with EV mids and super tweeters!


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## cmusic

SkizeR said:


> High Resolution Audio said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Wow, those things look amazing. Finally, Nick aimed the speakers in the right direction."
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure I understand..
Click to expand...

I think he meant putting the speakers on-axis with the listeners. 

Great looking A-pillars Nick!!


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## SkizeR

cmusic said:


> I think he meant putting the speakers on-axis with the listeners.
> 
> Great looking A-pillars Nick!!


Thank you!

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## captainobvious

SkizeR said:


> hey man, just because im from NY doesnt mean i also like to fill my trunk lid with EV mids and super tweeters!


But I didn't hear a *denial* in there either..... :surprised:

:laugh::laugh:


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## SkizeR

captainobvious said:


> But I didn't hear a *denial* in there either..... :surprised:


There was a reason I didnt turn on music when I picked you up from the train station.. Didn't want you to hear my chuchero in the back ?

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

copy and pasted from my imgur account..


My friend Steve, who i have met a short while back through this great hobby that is car audio, recently acquired a 2016 Ford Transit van that he intends to use for auto-sound competition. He contacted me to do some work on it when he found out i was going into the business myself. He wanted me to do the A-Pillars, which house Satori MR19PNW-4, which is a 5 inch midrange. He also wanted me to fabricate a housing for the Satori TW29BN-B tweeters, and install the Sony RSX-GS9 Radio as well as the Helix director. Steve had some very specific "wants" for the pillars. These were to 1) aim them on axis. 2) give them at least a liter of airspace. 3) Get them as deep and as wide as possible. 4) wrap them in Alcantara to match the soon to be dash wrapped in Alcantara, or a suede dash mat. and 5) do this all while keeping the protrusion of the pillars at or under 3.5 inches from the factory pillar surface in order to stay in MECA's Modex class. Steve saw them as wants, and if they didnt work out, so be it. But, i saw them as needs. No compromises.

















First step, finding out what im working with, and how i want them to end up. I knew that since they were 5 inches and were going to be on axis and wont protrude more than 3.5 inches, that they would need to be recessed. Since theyre recessed, theres going to need to be a cut out, or "scoop". The black marker lines are drawn in a way so that when sitting in the driver seat, the marker lines look like it completes the circle of the blocked speaker perfectly. This will be the cut out.















Here it is with it cut out, but not at the angle of the drivers head rest, so in this picture it doesnt show the whole speaker. I should have gotten better photos















Heres what i was working with behind the pillars. since theres an airbag, i was limited to building the enclosure only in the triangle area below it.















After all testing and playing with ideas for mounting, this is how the pillars ended up.















As you can see, there was a metal tab that was stealing some prime real estate. In order to get the mids as deep and as wide as possible while still staying within the 3.5" rule of MECA's Modex class, this needed to be cut. There were 3 other tabs that held the a pillar in place so this one wasnt a big deal. The windsheild and dash were covered to prevent any accidents or metal shavings getting anywhere.

Also, getting the airspace would have been easy if we used that pocket seen in the photo. That would have made installation/uninstallation a huge PITA. I ended up not using it and still getting over a liter of airspace.















Tab removed.















Lower pillar area taped off and everything to prep for glassing.















Fiberglass layup of the back side.















After the first layup cured, i installed the pillar and made a mold of the dash onto and through the pillar to connect the two molds to make the pillars and the mold one piece. Afterwards i removed them and trimmed the edges.

































After trimming off the nasty edges, they were reinstalled, and the rings were aimed and attached.















After they were attached, some old thermal t-shirts were sacrificed.















Side note, the eAsy fillers are certainly not a bs overpriced/rebranded product. They truly are great.















Passanger pillar after glassing,filling, and sanding. Lots and lots of sanding.

Another side note: when i did the mold of the dash and attached it to the first mold/pillar, i didnt install the pillar all the way at the top so it was leaning in a bit. This was so when installed fully, the mold of the dash was lifted up from the dash about 1/8th of an inch. Reason for this was so uninstallation/reinstallation would be much easier. The way these uninstall is you pull them out from the top. If i didnt do this, pulling out from the top would have put a lot more stress on the pillar/enclosure and flexed the pillar in the areas where they are attached. This can cause issues in the future. to combat the gap left over while making it able to have wiggle room for install purposes, i used a compliant strip of 1/8" dynaliner CCF. It can be compressed to almost nothing so it can fill the gap when needed, and still give you wiggle room during install.















Installing of the Sony RSX-GS9.. Steve supplied the Metra kit for his car, which houses a double din. we did the Sony Unit on top of the director. This is the bracket i made to hold the director. Steve suggested mounting with velcro for ease of uninstallation/reinstallation, and the director doesn't really have any other easy/good ways to be secured.















Both installed into the Metra brackets
























The left over space was filled with mdf/filler and wrapped in Alcantara to match the pillars and soon to be dash.
























Filled and test fitted.















Steve supplied some molds he previously made of the upperdoor/quarter glass area to make "sail panels". This is where he wanted the tweeter mounted. i used his molds and just build them up to be a bit stronger. They are secured to the door with 2 rivnuts per door and a 1/4-20 bolt. Unfortunately, i used two different memory cards in my camera throughout the build, and i formatted the one i accident that had most of the pics of the sails build progress. Im sure steve will upload some once they are installed.















This is the only other picture i have of it. In this photo i was in the process of making a seam to wrap them, also in Alcantara.















Sony RSX-GS9 and Helix Director installed with the 2 inserts that were mounted with magnets.















Pillars all finished and installed. This angle is from a little to the right and behind the driver headrest.















Here is a diagram outlining the enclosure that sits beneath the fabric. the outline and everything inside it is all usable airspace by the driver. Just the part that is behind the driver measured out to be around 1 liter using the old squished up packing peanuts method. I'm thinking after driver displacement theres still a hair over a liter















I think the reflections are making a prediction.. imaging outside of the car 
























Thanks for taking a look, i am extremely happy with how this all came out. I cant wait to see pics (and in person) what it looks like (and sounds like) when the dash is done and the sails are installed. Thank you again Steve, i am very excited to see and hear it all when its finished and im rooting for ya out in the lanes! Team SSQ!


----------



## 20to20

SkizeR said:


> copy and pasted from my imgur account..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My friend Steve, who i have met a short while back through this great hobby that is car audio, recently acquired a 2016 Ford Transit van that he intends to use for auto-sound competition. He contacted me to do some work on it when he found out i was going into the business myself. He wanted me to do the A-Pillars, which house Satori MR19PNW-4, which is a 5 inch midrange. He also wanted me to fabricate a housing for the Satori TW29BN-B tweeters, and install the Sony RSX-GS9 Radio as well as the Helix director. Steve had some very specific "wants" for the pillars. These were to 1) aim them on axis. 2) give them at least a liter of airspace. 3) Get them as deep and as wide as possible. 4) wrap them in Alcantara to match the soon to be dash wrapped in Alcantara, or a suede dash mat. and 5) do this all while keeping the protrusion of the pillars at or under 3.5 inches from the factory pillar surface in order to stay in MECA's Modex class. Steve saw them as wants, and if they didnt work out, so be it. But, i saw them as needs. No compromises.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First step, finding out what im working with, and how i want them to end up. I knew that since they were 5 inches and were going to be on axis and wont protrude more than 3.5 inches, that they would need to be recessed. Since theyre recessed, theres going to need to be a cut out, or "scoop". The black marker lines are drawn in a way so that when sitting in the driver seat, the marker lines look like it completes the circle of the blocked speaker perfectly. This will be the cut out.
> 
> 
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> Here it is with it cut out, but not at the angle of the drivers head rest, so in this picture it doesnt show the whole speaker. I should have gotten better photos
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> Heres what i was working with behind the pillars. since theres an airbag, i was limited to building the enclosure only in the triangle area below it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> After all testing and playing with ideas for mounting, this is how the pillars ended up.
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, there was a metal tab that was stealing some prime real estate. In order to get the mids as deep and as wide as possible while still staying within the 3.5" rule of MECA's Modex class, this needed to be cut. There were 3 other tabs that held the a pillar in place so this one wasnt a big deal. The windsheild and dash were covered to prevent any accidents or metal shavings getting anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, getting the airspace would have been easy if we used that pocket seen in the photo. That would have made installation/uninstallation a huge PITA. I ended up not using it and still getting over a liter of airspace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Tab removed.
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> Lower pillar area taped off and everything to prep for glassing.
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> Fiberglass layup of the back side.
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> 
> After the first layup cured, i installed the pillar and made a mold of the dash onto and through the pillar to connect the two molds to make the pillars and the mold one piece. Afterwards i removed them and trimmed the edges.
> 
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> After trimming off the nasty edges, they were reinstalled, and the rings were aimed and attached.
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> After they were attached, some old thermal t-shirts were sacrificed.
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> Side note, the eAsy fillers are certainly not a bs overpriced/rebranded product. They truly are great.
> 
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> Passanger pillar after glassing,filling, and sanding. Lots and lots of sanding.
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Incredible Job man... well done!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

20to20 said:


> Incredible Job man... well done!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks


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## claydo

Nice work Nick, looks beautiful in pictures! Looking forward to the day I get to check it out all up close and personal like. Congrats Steve, looks like you farmed out wisely!


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## SkizeR

claydo said:


> Nice work Nick, looks beautiful in pictures! Looking forward to the day I get to check it out all up close and personal like. Congrats Steve, looks like you farmed out wisely!


thanks clay!


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## miniSQ

That is some of the sickest work i have seen on DIYMA. #slowclap

Where are the tweeters mounted?


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## SkizeR

miniSQ said:


> That is some of the sickest work i have seen on DIYMA. #slowclap
> 
> Where are the tweeters mounted?


Thanks! They are mounted In "sail panels" in the top of the doors that covers part of the quarter glass. Most of the pics I had of them were on a card I accidentally formatted, along with some pics of the dash inserts. Steve was also in a jam and needes to head out of my place asap and I didn't think about getting the camera and snapping a few before he left

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## Porsche

looks like nice work, just to big IMO but its a large driver. how do you guys drive with them that big, that would drive me nuts


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## danno14

Steve- 
Congrats on what looks to be an amazing build (as we all suspected it would be!).

Nick- 
congrats on branching out on your own! If this is what you are producing this early in your career, I truly look forward to what artistry you will be creating in the future. Well done sir, well done.


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## SkizeR

Porsche said:


> looks like nice work, just to big IMO but its a large driver. how do you guys drive with them that big, that would drive me nuts


Thanks. And a lot of the higher class cars use drivers like this

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## captainobvious

Porsche said:


> looks like nice work, just to big IMO but its a large driver. how do you guys drive with them that big, that would drive me nuts


You'd be surprised if you saw them in person. They don't really look "big" or hamper visibility for me in the vehicle. The pillars are huge stock as you can see from the pic Nick posted above with the plastic trimmed out.
The way Nick built these to be so recessed for competition also means that they are tucked in really well.


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## bbfoto

20to20 said:


> Incredible Job man... well done!!


Agreed!!! Fantastic job, Nick. I think you'll do very well with your new business if you're producing that level of work while also adhering to your client's special requests, needs, and desires. :thumbsup:

Nick, you would most likely be able to recover those photos of the Sail Panel Build from that Memory Card (as long as you haven't completely filled it up again with new photos) by using SanDisk's RescuePRO software or Lexar's Image Rescue 5. These are included as a free download when you purchase either company's "Professional" memory cards. I usually have the best luck with the SanDisk RescuePRO. The Recovery Software works on all brands of memory cards.

I'll send you a PM with the software keys to both...I've got a bunch of extra ones from buying so many CF & SDXC cards.  You can download the software from the respective web sites.

And Congrats, Steve! This install is coming together nicely!


Side Note:

*20to20*, it's not necessary to QUOTE giant posts that contain a sh!t ton of photos like this one! The photos are already posted on the same page and Quoting/Re-Posting it needlessly uses extra bandwidth and data, especially for people who are viewing from a smartphone or tablet on a limited or fixed cellular data plan.  if you want to Quote just the TEXT in the post, just remove or delete all of the URL's that are within the "







" tags, along with the tags themselves. You have a few days from the time of your initial post that you can EDIT it by using the "EDIT" button/icon at the bottom right of your post. 

.


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## BlueAc

Nice job Nick...


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## SkizeR

BlueAc said:


> Nice job Nick...


Thank you.


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## gregerst22

Man those pillars turned out awesome! I am loving the 'no compromises' (or at least minimal compromises) approach to this build.


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## JayinMI

Hey Steve, are you going to the Vinny in July?
Will it be ready?
I want to go, and I want to hear it. lol

Jay


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## abusiveDAD

Killing ****, like the penguins (nhl)


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## 1fishman

Great build, very inspiring. I'm looking forward to seeing the tweeters installed also.

I really like Nick's detailed step by step post, looks great!


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## captainobvious

JayinMI said:


> Hey Steve, are you going to the Vinny in July?
> Will it be ready?
> I want to go, and I want to hear it. lol
> 
> Jay


Man I would LOVE to finally get down to The Vinny. I've been wanting to attend it for the last few years. I have the Hybrid GP show on the schedule right now which is the following weekend and is a 2 day event (I need to get the points in) so I seriously doubt I'll be making 2 10+ hour trips in back to back weekends.


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## JayinMI

Yeah, it's been one of those shows I'd like to make it to sometime. Richard and Linda will be out to judge it, and it's only 9hrs away from me. A lot closer than California. lol

I was hoping to have my car ready, but since I still need my subs to arrive and then I need to buy another $1100 of deadener and accessories, and do the install I don't think it will be ready. I thought about throwing most of it in and making it work, but I really don't want to have to go back in to the car several times.

I will definitely make Finals tho.

Jay


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## customtronic

Just found this build. Awesome work!


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## 20to20

bbfoto said:


> Agreed!!! Fantastic job, Nick. I think you'll do very well with your new business if you're producing that level of work while also adhering to your client's special requests, needs, and desires. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> Nick, you would most likely be able to recover those photos of the Sail Panel Build from that Memory Card (as long as you haven't completely filled it up again with new photos) by using SanDisk's RescuePRO software or Lexar's Image Rescue 5. These are included as a free download when you purchase either company's "Professional" memory cards. I usually have the best luck with the SanDisk RescuePRO. The Recovery Software works on all brands of memory cards.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll send you a PM with the software keys to both...I've got a bunch of extra ones from buying so many CF & SDXC cards.  You can download the software from the respective web sites.
> 
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> And Congrats, Steve! This install is coming together nicely!
> 
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> 
> Side Note:
> 
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> 
> *20to20*, it's not necessary to QUOTE giant posts that contain a sh!t ton of photos like this one! The photos are already posted on the same page and Quoting/Re-Posting it needlessly uses extra bandwidth and data, especially for people who are viewing from a smartphone or tablet on a limited or fixed cellular data plan.  if you want to Quote just the TEXT in the post, just remove or delete all of the URL's that are within the "
> 
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> " tags, along with the tags themselves. You have a few days from the time of your initial post that you can EDIT it by using the "EDIT" button/icon at the bottom right of your post.
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> .




Sorry bout that... still getting used to the Tapatalk version... appreciate u pointing that out.. I'll make sure I do that in the future .. thanks man


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## customtronic

Steve-
Where did you get that 4-way stretch vinyl you spoke about earlier in the thread? I'm a decent fabricator but my vinyl wrapping skills could be a bit better!  Stretch-ier vinyl would definitely help my current build.


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## SkizeR

customtronic said:


> Steve-
> Where did you get that 4-way stretch vinyl you spoke about earlier in the thread? I'm a decent fabricator but my vinyl wrapping skills could be a bit better!  Stretch-ier vinyl would definitely help my current build.


YourAutoTrim.com


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## bbfoto

SkizeR said:


> Pillars all finished and installed. This angle is from a little to the right and behind the driver headrest.
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Hey Steve and Nick, I meant to ask this earlier but forgot. Are the Satori mids aimed symmetrically to the center line of the car, or asymmetrically so that each side is aimed more on-axis towards the driver's seat listening position?

Thanks.


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## SkizeR

bbfoto said:


> Hey Steve and Nick, I meant to ask this earlier but forgot. Are the Satori mids aimed symmetrically to the center line of the car, or asymmetrically so that each side is aimed more on-axis towards the driver's seat listening position?
> 
> Thanks.


center of the car. you sit so far back though that its almost both lol


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## bbfoto

Nice! Thanks Nick.


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## captainobvious

Installed a new Stinger battery and got the Stinger circuit breakers installed under the hood as well to the (2) 1/0awg runs back to the rear. I made a cardboard template and then transferred that to 1/4" Type 1 pvc to mount the breakers to. Secured the breakers with bolts and nylock nuts.
















It's a pretty tight squeeze in there as the battery is recessed deeper into the engine bay on this vehicle.




.


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## SkizeR

recessed is putting it lightly.. looks good steve


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## captainobvious

I also upgraded the stock ground cable to a Stinger Pro 1/0awg as well as the stock positive wire from the battery with the same.


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## High Resolution Audio

Coming along nicely.....


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## captainobvious

These pics won't be nearly as nice quality as Nicks (I lost the card for my nice camera so need to look for it).







Pillars stuffed lightly with recycled denim acoustic insulation



Speaker connections







Airspace is sealed, including the speaker wire inlet.






Beautiful pillars and sail panels, courtesy of Nick of Apicella Autosound.


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## SkizeR

dayum lookin good! and those sails are pretty much all you Steve!


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## High Resolution Audio

I just want to caution you about those blue jeans insulation. Mice love that stuff. It makes for perfect nesting material. Just be aware that it is a possibility that if you live near the woods, that mice might try and gain entry into the vehicle if it is parked in one spot for long. Hopefully, where you live, you won't have to concern yourself, but the people that used it in the walls for insulation instead of fiberglass, wish they never did. 

Hopefully you won't have any issues, but I did want to make you aware.


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## bbfoto

Steve, it's looking really nice. Love the custom "battery topper" circuit breaker board.

That's a killer front stage, too. 

Are you gonna stick with the Brax amps for this setup?


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## bbfoto

Sorry, double post. :blush:


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## capea4

I had one of those battery terminals let go relatively quickly, the "tab" that the allen pinches onto the post broke off on a plow truck that I added a second battery to. Could be just a defective one, but I'd keep an eye on them


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## captainobvious

Yeah ive had one of those break too when tightening them down. You have to be careful how much torque you apply to them as they are a but sensitive to that with a bit of a weak pressure point on the terminal. They grip well, but cranking on them too far is no bueno.


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## captainobvious

SkizeR said:


> dayum lookin good! and those sails are pretty much all you Steve!



:laugh:

Can't take credit for those, my friend. You did all the work, I just got em wrapped up


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## unix_usr

With all the audio/power upgrades - you should look into changing the battery controller to have the alternator stay on - these cars you'll notice a ammeter looped around the factory ground - when you bypass that with a new cable it does funky stuff to the programming designed to save fuel by engaging or disengaging the alternators charging function. You can use ForScan and a cheap adapter to change this behavior to just leave the alternator to always-on (of course negating the minuscule fuel mileage savings that you've probably killed with added weight by this point anyways  )


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## captainobvious

Thanks for the heads up.

For competition, the vehicle is off so the alternator wouldn't be a factor. I use a large power supply on the system for competition.


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## customtronic

Looking great!!!


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## High Resolution Audio

I heard you were in MD today. The system up and running, yet?


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## Coppertone

What Steve was in MD, and didn't stop by my place ? Lol.


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## captainobvious

High Resolution Audio said:


> I heard you were in MD today. The system up and running, yet?


Yup, still much to do but it is playing finally. Have to do some tuning before Atlanta this weekend. :surprised: Then some more work to get in by SVR.


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## High Resolution Audio

captainobvious said:


> Yup, still much to do but it is playing finally. Have to do some tuning before Atlanta this weekend. :surprised: Then some more work to get in by SVR.


Nice. I'm glad it's playing music. I hope the install is complete. Tuning is a process for sure, but if all the fab work is done, then that is the PITA part !!!! Good luck in Cummings! I wish I could could go. Have fun.


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## captainobvious

Thanks Gerald.

Nah, still have fab work to do in the trunk. But I'll get there in time.


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## RVA_LVER

Wow, spectacular stuff man. I admire the striving for perfection here with your testing of your drivers and in-car set up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## High Resolution Audio

I just watched a video of your car playing that Mark Ramsey Williams posted on facebook. Your system freaking rocks!!!!


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## Coppertone

Sadly I do not have FaceBook, any way to post a link of that video please ?


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## High Resolution Audio

Coppertone said:


> Sadly I do not have FaceBook, any way to post a link of that video please ?


Sorry, I tried, but it won't work. But his system is extremely clean sounding on the top end and very, very dynamic overall. 

Lots of separation between instruments and a very 3 dimensional stage. 

At least that is what I can hear with my headphones.


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## Coppertone

That's ok at least you tried and that I really appreciate. I'll text Steve and see if he can send me a copy to check out.


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## SkizeR

recently got to listen to this at SVR. this car is easily has the most real "tonality", or whatever you would want to call it, out of any car ive heard before. you wouldnt believe speakers are playing the music. absolutely crazy. congrats on your placings (and new towers that i saw you carrying off the stage lol). TEAM SSQ BABAY!


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## JayinMI

Agreed. I heard several cars that did a lot of things well. Steve's tonality was amazingly realistic. Matt Hall's Benz' stage was LOCKED IN. The bass from the OnCore subs in Bruce Miller's 4Runner was impressive. 

I missed several cars people told me I should listen to (again) but got to hear several. Walking around the first day with a CD limited me, since everyone was running GS9's. lol

Jay


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## bertholomey

JayinMI said:


> Agreed. I heard several cars that did a lot of things well. Steve's tonality was amazingly realistic. Matt Hall's Benz' stage was LOCKED IN. The bass from the OnCore subs in Bruce Miller's 4Runner was impressive.
> 
> I missed several cars people told me I should listen to (again) but got to hear several. Walking around the first day with a CD limited me, since everyone was running GS9's. lol
> 
> Jay


It was fantastic in Atlanta, and I've heard it is even better now.......hard to fathom, but I believe it. I'm looking forward to my next opportunity to spin some discs....or rather, access a thumb drive......and hear this amazing system.


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## captainobvious

Thanks gents! Still pushing to make it a little better each time.


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## captainobvious

Just wrapped up the season wit ha very fun weekend in Louisville at the combined Iasca and Meca finals. I got to hear some outstanding vehicles and the sheer number of SQ cars that turned out was very impressive. I got plenty of tuning hours in the van over the last week leading up to finals and then put a few small adjustments on it after listening again on Friday in Louisville. Overall I was really happy with how it was sounding. It still wasn't perfect and there are still a couple of little tweaks to make, but it was by far the best vehicle I have ever brought to finals.

Had a wonderful time hanging out with my buddies from PA and took home a couple of trophies as a bonus. 

Meca- 2nd place in Modex finals and 3rd in the 2x event.
Iasca- 3rd place in ProAm finals and 1st in the 3x event.






Thanks to everyone who offered demo's as I got to hear some terrific cars. And thanks to everyone who stopped by to say hello and get a listen in the wagon. Your comments were appreciated.


-Steve


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## benny z

Yesssssss! Awesome vehicle man. Truly loved it.


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## Coppertone

How were you able to get those trophies home Steve lol, just kidding my friend. Well deserved wins and glad to read that you had a fantastic time out.

Benjamin


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## naiku

Congratulations! Hoping to get a longer demo in it next time I see you.


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## Coppertone

Please put me on this list also once I am healed.


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## SkizeR

PIMP WAGON DOIN WORK!

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## cmusic

Congrats Steve and your van was one of the best I heard at Finals!!


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## bertholomey

The van was an incredible listening experience. Thank very much for an awesome demo. All of your testing, installing, and tuning certainly paid off. 

The scary thing for everyone else is that with more tuning (I know you will because you don't rest on your laurels), it is going to get better and better. Truly fantastic in every aspect! Congrats!


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## D34dl1fter

Steve
What can I say that hasn't already been said....as you were told this thing is" just on a different level" and as stated will only get better yet...congrats brother !


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## High Resolution Audio

Congratulations, Steve

Nice display of trophies there. It looks like all your hard work paid off. 


I would love to be able to sit in the "pimp wagon" for a demo, if you would let me. 

Your critical ear, and tuning ability is on par with the finest in the world, in my humble opinion. 

You have accomplished quite a lot in the last year or so. You've rocketed yourself to the top. 

I'm very happy for you. Keep up the good work!!!

Gerald


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## LBaudio

Congrats Steve for your achievement!


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## ErinH

Congrats on your achievement, my friend! Looking forward to hearing this again in the future.


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## captainobvious

cmusic said:


> Congrats Steve and your van was one of the best I heard at Finals!!



Thanks Chuck. I appreciate the feedback you gave at the show. 

Cheers


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## captainobvious

bertholomey said:


> The van was an incredible listening experience. Thank very much for an awesome demo. All of your testing, installing, and tuning certainly paid off.
> 
> The scary thing for everyone else is that with more tuning (I know you will because you don't rest on your laurels), it is going to get better and better. Truly fantastic in every aspect! Congrats!





D34dl1fter said:


> Steve
> What can I say that hasn't already been said....as you were told this thing is" just on a different level" and as stated will only get better yet...congrats brother !



Thanks Jason and Josh. Yeah, I can't believe I've only had this thing for like 6 months. There are definitely still some areas for improvement in the tune so I think I can squeeze maybe a couple more points out of it. I can also get an additional one in Iasca with mounting my control device. 





High Resolution Audio said:


> Congratulations, Steve
> 
> Nice display of trophies there. It looks like all your hard work paid off.
> 
> 
> I would love to be able to sit in the "pimp wagon" for a demo, if you would let me.
> 
> Your critical ear, and tuning ability is on par with the finest in the world, in my humble opinion.
> 
> You have accomplished quite a lot in the last year or so. You've rocketed yourself to the top.
> 
> I'm very happy for you. Keep up the good work!!!
> 
> Gerald


Very kind of you Gerald, and as you know my vehicle is always available to demo so you'd certainly be welcomed to.


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## bbfoto

Congrats, Steve! That's quite an accomplishment seeing as you've had this car less than a year.  Seems as if all of your extensive testing and planning has paid off, and as others said, the TC will only get better in the future. :thumbsup:


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## captainobvious

Thanks Billy! I'm definitely enjoying it. Now I'm just going to work on little teaks to the tune to refine it and some different treatments and such in the car to maximize the potential. 

Cheers,


----------



## captainobvious

benny z said:


> Yesssssss! Awesome vehicle man. Truly loved it.



Thanks Ben. I'm looking forward to seeing how your vehicle progresses too


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## 555nova

Awesome build, I would love to be able to hear a vehicle like this someday. What are you doing for subs?


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## captainobvious

Thanks.

Currently, there are (3) Audiofrog GB12D4 subs.


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## Coppertone

Congratulations Steve again on using your passion to put together and exemplary build. Once I am healed I would love to take a trip your way and shoot the breeze. In the meantime if you need anything, please feel free to contact me.


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## captainobvious

Thanks Ben. Hope you have a speedy recovery.


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## SkizeR

captainobvious said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Currently, there are (3) Audiofrog GB12D4 subs.


and my god do they boogie


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## Black Rain

Im sure 3 12s will boogie in that vehicle. Makes me miss my 3 12s in my SUV.

Steve, Congrats on all your accolades at Finals.

Question... may I missed it in your build but amps are you running now?

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


----------



## High Resolution Audio

Black Rain said:


> Im sure 3 12s will boogie in that vehicle. Makes me miss my 3 12s in my SUV.
> 
> Steve, Congrats on all your accolades at Finals.
> 
> Question... may I missed it in your build but amps are you running now?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk



I believe he is part of Team Revelation.

I think he is using the new Matt Hall/ Gordon Taylor Revelation Amplifiers designed by Gordon Taylor ( Genesis Amp Designer from U.K.). But I don't wish to speak for Steve.


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## captainobvious

That's correct Gerald.

Revelation Audio amplifiers Juan.

(2) Glastonbury, class A 
(1) Hammersmith

On the midbasses I have a pair of Genesis Dual Mono amps until the model I am waiting for from Revelation Audio is released.


Thanks


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## Black Rain

WOW....Revelation Audio amps

From info that is found here on another post....if the data is correct.

(2) Glastonbury, class A (20x2) for Midrange and Tweets? Is it not the Class G?
(1) Hammersmith (1200 @1-4ohms).... so thats only 400w per sub for small sealed subs?
(2) Genesis Dual Mono (500x1) for each Midbass?

Just wondering, it seems to be hard to find info on the new Revelation Amps. Please correct me if my info is incorrect.


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## rton20s

Black Rain said:


> WOW....Revelation Audio amps
> 
> From info that is found here on another post....if the data is correct.
> 
> (2) Glastonbury, class A (20x2) for Midrange and Tweets? Is it not the Class G?
> (1) Hammersmith (1200 @1-4ohms).... so thats only 400w per sub for small sealed subs?
> (2) Genesis Dual Mono (500x1) for each Midbass?
> 
> Just wondering, it seems to be hard to find info on the new Revelation Amps. Please correct me if my info is incorrect.


https://www.revelation-audio.com/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/954380051330741/

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/353314-opinions-revelation-audio.html


----------



## SteveH!

any pics of your finished amp rack captain?


----------



## captainobvious

Amp rack is not yet finished with trim panels, but once it is, I will certainly post some pics up for you guys.


----------



## TerryGreen5986

Too rich for my blood! Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## oabeieo

Dang congrats Steve , 

Nicely done.
Got yourself a lil collection now that is impressive. Says a lot about your rep.
Shop rates need to go up by at least 20% if your putting in on a build. 
It’s hard to find ppl like you. I am booked out now 18weeks on jobs and have 1 trophy. Multi wins are true dedication to the sport. And shows the desire to be noticed. 
And a ton of word of mouth, but nothing can be said more than proven performance. 

Amazing accomplishment Steve !


----------



## AVIDEDTR

JAW.....FLOOR.

...

..And it sounds damn ****en good too.

...

Best PART...SHE's LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## claydo

Ooooh...me likey loud. Looking forward to hearing this thing Steve.


----------



## captainobvious

AVIDEDTR said:


> JAW.....FLOOR.
> 
> ...
> 
> ..And it sounds damn ****en good too.
> 
> ...
> 
> Best PART...SHE's LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:laugh:

Thanks buddy. It definitely gets loud. No complaints from the judges about "needing more volume"


----------



## Babs

captainobvious said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Thanks buddy. It definitely gets loud. No complaints from the judges about "needing more volume"


Claydo's sifting through his tracks now for fireworks and William Tell Overture.  You better supervise him on the volume knob when he demo's. LOL!


----------



## captainobvious

I've been considering a few possible changes in the system to try to push it even further. Some remain to be revealed as they are in the works still, but this part I am excited about. I'm going to be doing some more testing in the vehicle as soon as my schedule (and the weather) allow. I'd really like to be able to integrate the RAAL ribbons as they are the finest tweeters I've ever heard. They are quire massive though.





This is shown with the MR16P (The larger 6.5" version of the mids I currently have in the van).







The idea would be to put them in the sail area on the top of the door where I currently have the Satori tweeters. Then, I would move the midrange forward so they are next to each other which should help to improve imaging. Finally, I have the space in the vehicle to install seat rails that could accommodate about 12" worth of distance to move the seats back which is considerable.
My other plans include potential change of current midrange and subwoofer.




.


----------



## captainobvious

AVIDEDTR said:


> JAW.....FLOOR.
> 
> ...
> 
> ..And it sounds damn ****en good too.
> 
> ...
> 
> Best PART...SHE's LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Greatly appreciated!

And the goal with the possible changes would be to increase the dynamics even further and also improve the imaging further. I'm on a mission.


----------



## claydo

Damn steve, there you go changing it up before I've even had a demo! Please have it together and playing at jasons......


----------



## SkizeR

when you finish his pillars not even that long ago and he wants to change drivers..


----------



## ErinH

Some seriously good driver choices there. Looking forward to seeing the end results or your thoughts once you start doing some more testing and building!


----------



## naiku

claydo said:


> Damn steve, there you go changing it up before I've even had a demo! Please have it together and playing at jasons......


I only had a short demo in the van last year, it's another of those vehicles that sort of leave you scratching your head about how to get your own system to that next level. 

Can't wait to hear it after the latest changes, definitely make sure you get some seat time in April.


----------



## captainobvious

SkizeR said:


> when you finish his pillars not even that long ago and he wants to change drivers..



:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Don't worry you'll get another chance! lol

I love the current pillars- some of the best I've ever seen. They are going on my storage shelf so that if this doesn't work out I can put them back in. 


Warm up the shop and get the resin ready! :rockon:


----------



## JVD240

captainobvious said:


> :laugh::laugh::laugh:
> 
> Don't worry you'll get another chance! lol
> 
> I love the current pillars- some of the best I've ever seen. They are going on my storage shelf so that if this doesn't work out I can put them back in.
> 
> 
> Warm up the shop and get the resin ready! :rockon:


:laugh:

Absolutely bonkers. Lovely build!


----------



## rton20s

Wow, those are some big ribbons! I'd really love to hear the van at some point. Just not sure when I could ever make that happen. 

Are you concerned at all about the durability of the ribbons in a moving vehicle? I've been advised in the past that using some of the nice home audio ribbons in a car, especially when not mounted at or very near vertical, can lead to premature failure. 

Either way, I can't wait to see how the project turns out.


----------



## cmusic

Just remember that improvements in SQ does not necessarily mean higher scoring in competition.


----------



## captainobvious

Thanks gents.

The mids I am going to be testing with the RAALs in the car are the following:

-Audio Technology 15H
-Morel SCM634 copper sleeve
-Satori MR16P
-Scanspeak 15M
I VERY much wanted to test the Accuton C168-6-990 as well but they are so pricey. :mean:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/woofers/accuton-c168-6-990-7-ceramic-cone-mid/bass/

Also, I'm having a custom IB sub built by John at Acoustic Elegance.


----------



## SkizeR

captainobvious said:


> Don't worry you'll get another chance! lol
> 
> I love the current pillars- some of the best I've ever seen. They are going on my storage shelf so that if this doesn't work out I can put them back in.
> 
> 
> Warm up the shop and get the resin ready! :rockon:


Heats on 69. Pun not fully intended

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

rton20s said:


> Wow, those are some big ribbons! I'd really love to hear the van at some point. Just not sure when I could ever make that happen.
> 
> Are you concerned at all about the durability of the ribbons in a moving vehicle? I've been advised in the past that using some of the nice home audio ribbons in a car, especially when not mounted at or very near vertical, can lead to premature failure.
> 
> Either way, I can't wait to see how the project turns out.



Not too concerned, nope. They will be mounted very close to vertically aligned as the seat sits fairly low in this vehicle. Probably only a few degrees of angling required to keep them on axis vertically to the listening position. 




claydo said:


> Damn steve, there you go changing it up before I've even had a demo! Please have it together and playing at jasons......


If only you lived closer Clay!




cmusic said:


> Just remember that improvements in SQ does not necessarily mean higher scoring in competition.



I'm more concerned about making it sound "real", lively and dynamic. I feel like if I get it sounding the way I am shooting for, that it will also score well in competition but my primary goal is in making it sound huge and real. 
I'll be looking forward to your critique when it's done Chuck. You've heard a few renditions of my vehicles now so it's nice to get that feedback.


----------



## captainobvious

SkizeR said:


> Heats on 69. Pun not fully intended
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk



Yeah baby


----------



## captainobvious

ErinH said:


> Some seriously good driver choices there. Looking forward to seeing the end results or your thoughts once you start doing some more testing and building!


Thanks Bro, you know me...I'll be testing in the vehicle for a while prior to finalizing anything. Preparation and testing are key to getting the best performance (as you know) in any particular vehicle.


----------



## ErinH

Steve, any concerns regarding visibility with the (potential) driver swap?


----------



## captainobvious

ErinH said:


> Steve, any concerns regarding visibility with the (potential) driver swap?



A good (and valid) question.

Yes, there is concern :laugh:


The RAALs would need to be installed in the sail/top of door shelf area where the current tweeters are at. It looks like I won't lose much (if any) visibility there from that standpoint over what's already there. As for the mid...well I'd be going from a mid with an outer diameter of about 5.2" to one that measures in the neighborhood of 6-6.5" and moving it forward a bit so that could be interesting. Right now my visibility is great and no real complaints there. The good thing about this vehicle is it has a lot of visibility with a tall and huge windshield and side windows. I'm pretty lucky that I can do things in this vehicle that might be outlandish in some others :blush:.


----------



## ErinH

On another note, should you start a new thread and call it "... a new, new build"? LOL. 

This hobby is going to prevent us from retiring. :laugh:


----------



## captainobvious

I know....seriously.


----------



## casey

Getting wild in here. Cant wait to get a listen on this. Whats the plan for the IB sub(s)?


----------



## rton20s

casey said:


> Getting wild in here. Cant wait to get a listen on this. Whats the plan for the IB sub(s)?


Please be this... please be this...


----------



## Babs

rton20s said:


> Please be this... please be this...



Who snapped my secret build when I wasn’t looking?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## audiophile25

I am anxious to hear your changes sir! I have really enjoyed it every time I have listened to it.


----------



## captainobvious

Thanks Mike. I'm looking forward to hearing yours again at Jasons gtg in the Spring!


----------



## captainobvious

casey said:


> Getting wild in here. Cant wait to get a listen on this. Whats the plan for the IB sub(s)?



Going from 3 subs to a single sub. John is building me a custom IB18AU. Plan is to cut the needed hole and weld in mount/support frame for it.

I may need to rebuild my kicks a bit too...:surprised: But that's a story for another day


----------



## casey

awesome! Trying to picture where this IB wall is going lol


----------



## captainobvious

Floor in the rear of the van. The spare tire in these vehicles is outside, under the rear of the vehicle and is lowered down with a crank. The plan would be to do a cutout above that spare to accommodate the sub and allow it to breathe completely to the outside for a true IB scenario, completely separating the front wave from rear.


----------



## BowDown

captainobvious said:


> Floor in the rear of the van. The spare tire in these vehicles is outside, under the rear of the vehicle and is lowered down with a crank. The plan would be to do a cutout above that spare to accommodate the sub and allow it to breathe completely to the outside for a true IB scenario, completely separating the front wave from rear.


That's a great idea!


----------



## captainobvious

BowDown said:


> That's a great idea!


I feel like I've seen someone do this before too...but can't quite put my finger on who....

:laugh::laugh:


----------



## bbfoto

rton20s said:


> Wow, those are some big ribbons! I'd really love to hear the van at some point. Just not sure when I could ever make that happen.
> 
> *Are you concerned at all about the durability of the ribbons in a moving vehicle? I've been advised in the past that using some of the nice home audio ribbons in a car, especially when not mounted at or very near vertical, can lead to premature failure.*
> 
> Either way, I can't wait to see how the project turns out.



Pffftt...those ribbons are cheap and easily replaceable. 


Here's some reassurance directly from RAAL's web site:

*"RIBBON REPLACEMENT KIT: ribbon replacement is made easy by our ribbon replacement kit, which is easily replaced by the user. This “kit" is in fact our SYMMLEAD signal leading frame, holding the stretched ribbon, allowing it to snap into perfect position between the magnets. This feature might be an obsolete one, because RAAL ribbons are destructible only by really extreme abuse or curiosity. In two years, we sent away only 3 replacement kits".*


That being said, this is a 4 micrometer thin aluminium foil ribbon (that's .004 mm)!

Honestly, I think that you'd have to be more concerned with big ribbons like this dealing with strong pressure/vacuum-suction/air blasts from windows-down driving and closing the rear hatch & doors, not to mention being pressurized in small space by a long-throw, large diameter subwoofer. 

I own several hi-end ribbon microphones, and you do have to be very careful in handling them and placing them in the direct path and/or too close to sources that produce air blasts, such as powerful vocalists, bass drums, trumpets, etc. Most of these are 1.8µm thick ribbon elements.

If you look at the physical design of a typical ribbon microphone and a typical ribbon tweeter, they are nearly identical, except that most ribbon microphones have some type of mesh and/or fabric windscreen placed in front of the element, and are true dipole/figure-of-8 polar pattern. Ribbon elements in microphones are also prone to stretching and losing the proper tensioning (which is critical to performance) if they are not stored in a vertical orientation.

And I can't wait to see how the project turns out as well!

:thumbsup: Steve!


----------



## DLO13

Insanely awesome build. 
Why the swapping of gear?


----------



## Elgrosso

Awesome, ribbons and big IB, can’t wait to learn about the results! (as I won't hear them)


----------



## casey

thanks for the explanation on the ib setup. I hope to hear it at the spring meet


----------



## captainobvious

DLO13 said:


> Insanely awesome build.
> Why the swapping of gear?


Thanks!

I'm always on the pursuit of squeezing more out of the potential of the vehicle. And I love the RAAL ribbons, they are truly special. I can potentially do a crossover point as low as the 1.8khz area with the ribbons (they can do lower, but that's where I'd consider them safe at my output levels) so I can do an even larger mid if I want.
Other goal is to locate the mid and tweeter closer together for further improved imaging.


----------



## captainobvious

Just waiting for a couple more drivers to arrive and then it's time for some extended demoing 

Who's in??


----------



## AVIDEDTR

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO LIVE SO FAR AWAY!


----------



## captainobvious

AVIDEDTR said:


> WHY DO YOU HAVE TO LIVE SO FAR AWAY!





I know. Would be great to have you join in on the demoing session.


----------



## abusiveDAD

what sub is that?


----------



## sqnut

captainobvious said:


> I know. Would be great to have you join in on the demoing session.


Sounds like a fun experiment......do we get audio files this time?


----------



## captainobvious

sqnut said:


> Sounds like a fun experiment......do we get audio files this time?



Haha I actually thought about that, but I was borrowing Billy's Zoom recorder unit for the headunit recordings and don't have one of my own. Maybe one day... :blush:


----------



## captainobvious

abusiveDAD said:


> what sub is that?



John at Acoustic Elegance made me an IB18AU unit.


----------



## casey

so much nice stuff! Is the KEF point source just an idea to simplify?


----------



## Serieus

those kefs are sweet, i have a pair in the living room. i'd be curious to see how they'd sound in a car environment


----------



## bassfromspace

What driver is that with the carbon fiber cone? Looks like a Beyma midrange I was recently looking at.


----------



## D34dl1fter

bassfromspace said:


> What driver is that with the carbon fiber cone? Looks like a Beyma midrange I was recently looking at.


Its a morel i believe


----------



## High Resolution Audio

Without being there for a direct listening experiment, I can safely say that the Scan will outshine the KEF. I've heard the highly touted KEF LS50 and all I can say is Meh.

What model scan is that?


----------



## SkizeR

High Resolution Audio said:


> Without being there for a direct listening experiment, I can safely say that the Scan will outshine the KEF. I've heard the highly touted KEF LS50 and all I can say is Meh.
> 
> What model scan is that?


15w it seems


----------



## D34dl1fter

SkizeR said:


> 15w it seems


Im gonna guess the 18m


----------



## bassfromspace

D34dl1fter said:


> Its a morel i believe


Yeah, I think you're right.


----------



## Elgrosso

Beautiful!
I guess they’re all 6/7” then (except the kef and of course the monster IB)
I’m curious, since you already have beefy midbass’, why do you try woofers instead of smaller midranges?


----------



## captainobvious

casey said:


> so much nice stuff! Is the KEF point source just an idea to simplify?


I just want to test a very good concentric driver in there to see if it presents any strong benefits.


----------



## captainobvious

bassfromspace said:


> What driver is that with the carbon fiber cone? Looks like a Beyma midrange I was recently looking at.



It's the Morel TSCM634 copper sleeve midrange.


----------



## captainobvious

The Scanspeak drivers are the 15M.




Elgrosso said:


> Beautiful!
> I guess they’re all 6/7” then (except the kef and of course the monster IB)
> I’m curious, since you already have beefy midbass’, why do you try woofers instead of smaller midranges?



I've used plenty of small midranges previously. While they can sound very nice, they simply don't have the lower midrange body I am seeking and they can't provide the same level of performance at high output. Larger midrange drivers sound much more effortless and require less excursion to do the job, minimizing distortion. The drivers I am demoing are primarily "midrange" designed drivers, just larger in size than what we typically see used in vehicles.

The 15M is a midrange, as is the Morel TSCM, Satori MR16p and the AudioTechnology unit.


----------



## captainobvious

D34dl1fter said:


> Im gonna guess the 18m



I like the response of the 18M but it is just a bit too large for me unfortunately.


----------



## captainobvious

Since I have to redo the trunk area soon anyway (and the weather was decent for a change) I went ahead and pulled the equipment from the rear.


----------



## benny z

captainobvious said:


> The Scanspeak drivers are the 15M.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've used plenty of small midranges previously. While they can sound very nice, they simply don't have the lower midrange body I am seeking and they can't provide the same level of performance at high output. Larger midrange drivers sound much more effortless and require less excursion to do the job, minimizing distortion. The drivers I am demoing are primarily "midrange" designed drivers, just larger in size than what we typically see used in vehicles.
> 
> The 15M is a midrange, as is the Morel TSCM, Satori MR16p and the AudioTechnology unit.




Same reasons I’m going with a 7” dedicated midrange.

Eager to see what you do!


----------



## Elgrosso

captainobvious said:


> I've used plenty of small midranges previously. While they can sound very nice, they simply don't have the lower midrange body I am seeking and they can't provide the same level of performance at high output. Larger midrange drivers sound much more effortless and require less excursion to do the job, minimizing distortion. The drivers I am demoing are primarily "midrange" designed drivers, just larger in size than what we typically see used in vehicles.
> 
> The 15M is a midrange, as is the Morel TSCM, Satori MR16p and the AudioTechnology unit.


Got it, 
I expected an answer related to higher output/lower distortion but not especially around the lower mid range. Where will they be crossed, lower than let’s say 250hz?
And I guess you don't need the better dispersion higher up of a smaller ID, because maybe you plan to use a low enough XO with the Raals?

In fact that’s kind of where I am right now, between big or small midranges, I like the bigger cones effect too but I also like them playing high.
I’ve been surprised by the good response of a 6 or 7’' off axis, like up to 4Khz (audax/phl/td6) but I still wanted to test smaller ones for comparison.
Tried the Volts (2" domes) few weeks, they were wonderful up to 5Khz, but not in lower midrange for sure. So I plan to test some other domes and some 4-5" cones soon. The MR13 maybe + some others, pro or not, sealed or not.


----------



## Mic10is

captainobvious said:


> The Scanspeak drivers are the 15M.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've used plenty of small midranges previously. While they can sound very nice, they simply don't have the lower midrange body I am seeking and they can't provide the same level of performance at high output. Larger midrange drivers sound much more effortless and require less excursion to do the job, minimizing distortion. The drivers I am demoing are primarily "midrange" designed drivers, just larger in size than what we typically see used in vehicles.
> 
> The 15M is a midrange, as is the Morel TSCM, Satori MR16p and the AudioTechnology unit.



ah...the ole...it can sound nice or pretty but does it sound REAL......
So many people dont grasp this concept.....


----------



## captainobvious

Elgrosso said:


> Got it,
> I expected an answer related to higher output/lower distortion but not especially around the lower mid range. Where will they be crossed, lower than let’s say 250hz?
> And I guess you don't need the better dispersion higher up of a smaller ID, because maybe you plan to use a low enough XO with the Raals?
> 
> In fact that’s kind of where I am right now, between big or small midranges, I like the bigger cones effect too but I also like them playing high.
> I’ve been surprised by the good response of a 6 or 7’' off axis, like up to 4Khz (audax/phl/td6) but I still wanted to test smaller ones for comparison.
> Tried the Volts (2" domes) few weeks, they were wonderful up to 5Khz, but not in lower midrange for sure. So I plan to test some other domes and some 4-5" cones soon. The MR13 maybe + some others, pro or not, sealed or not.


The Satori's (MR13P model) were crossed around 165hz. Yeah, the crossover point on the top end will likely fall in the 2khz-3khz area. The Raal ribbons can be crossed a good deal lower than that too but shouldn't be necessary with these midranges I'm considering.

You can play larger midranges higher, but cone breakup becomes a factor. You can play smaller midranges higher but transition to the midbass and lower midrange performance may not be as good. I could certainly get away with a 3" mid and make a very good sounding system, but I'm trying to build a system that has world class tonality and imaging and which is able to produce that at realistic volume outputs without worrying about longevity and reliability. I've only heard a couple vehicles over the years that have come close to that. Not saying I'll definitely achieve that, but that is the goal.


----------



## thehatedguy

10s playing to 800ish


----------



## captainobvious

Haha, well yeah localization is also a consideration there too.


----------



## Elgrosso

thehatedguy said:


> 10s playing to 800ish


I would love to play mine to 800Hz! (so domes would be totally safe)
But 4-500 is already a stretch, IDK maybe they’re too deep in the footwell, measure ok but don't sound right up there.
I saw some eminence 10" sealed midrange yesterday, cheap enough, I might try in doors just for the fun


----------



## ErinH

yea, that's the problem with using large midranges. You have to make a sacrifice somewhere. Either in directivity at the crossover or in the tweeter range; all with power handling in mind. I think 4-5" mids are kind of the sweet spot for car audio in terms of having the combo of high(er) output and tweeter dispersion. When you go to the next size up then things get a lot more interesting and the tradeoffs begin to show up. 

Of course, what you choose is really up to you and the sound you're chasing. I went directly from a concentric 5" to a 5" mid/1" tweeter and then to a 2.5" mid/0.5" tweeter. All had a pro/con. I loved the output of the 5" satori; I loved the blending of the concentric (though, it had to be crossed over a bit higher than a normal 5") and I loved the space/immersion of the "little speaker" combo due to it's more Omni-directionality. 


There's not really a one-size-fits-all approach to car audio which can be good or bad, depending on how much you need an excuse to play with new toys.


----------



## captainobvious

Good points.

The issue of directivity is also aided by the fact that these would be paired with a large ribbon capable of crossing over much lower than the "beaming point" of the accompanying midrange drivers so that allows flexibility. 

And I agree, there are *always* trade-offs. Both in the gear selection and with regards to each individual vehicle and what works in each. Chasing the dream is part of the fun of this hobby


----------



## benny z

If they’re aimed on axis, who cares about the beaming point?


----------



## ErinH

benny z said:


> If they’re aimed on axis, who cares about the beaming point?


tweeters beam, too, mang.


----------



## captainobvious

And we still hear the off axis reflected content as part of the summed response so it is still important what is happening off-axis (still a concern in our tin-can reflective listening spaces).


----------



## metanium

captainobvious said:


> I just want to test a very good concentric driver in there to see if it presents any strong benefits.


I have a brand new pair of Illusion L6CX concentric 6.5's that I'd sell for a reasonable price. PM me if interested.











https://www.crutchfield.com/p_840L6CX/Illusion-Audio-Luccent-L6-CX.html?search=l6cx&skipvs=T


----------



## casey

cant wait to see progress on the IB setup.

Also am excited to demo this in April.


----------



## High Resolution Audio

captainobvious said:


> I just want to test a very good concentric driver in there to see if it presents any strong benefits.


The KEF driver sounds Meh.

The Technics concentric driver sounds really good. I was very impressed and considered purchasing a set to try. Relatively inexpensive too. Much less than the TAD driver that I had my eyes on for a while.


Speaker System SB-C700 | Premium Class C700 Series | Technics US


----------



## captainobvious

Yeah I will know soon enough on the LS50 drivers since I am getting the demo room ready. I have heard very good things about them and they also measure pretty well. You're the first I've heard say anything negative about them actually.

If concentric were the better option, I would probably be looking at the Tannoy drivers and the very nice Seas Excel model

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/coaxial/seas-excel-c18en002/a-e0060-6.5-coaxial-each/


----------



## thehatedguy

I have a few 8" Tannoys that I would make you a deal on


----------



## captainobvious

Thanks for the offer! I can't fit an 8" there though unfortunately. At the very most- a 7", but that begins to become intrusive. The crop of drivers I'm testing all pretty much fall in that 5.75"-6.5" range.


----------



## High Resolution Audio

captainobvious said:


> Yeah I will know soon enough on the LS50 drivers since I am getting the demo room ready. I have heard very good things about them and they also measure pretty well. You're the first I've heard say anything negative about them actually.
> 
> If concentric were the better option, I would probably be looking at the Tannoy drivers and the very nice Seas Excel model
> 
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/coaxial/seas-excel-c18en002/a-e0060-6.5-coaxial-each/


I was at Nantucket Sound in Hyannis and I had the salesmen in my Van doing a demo. We walked in the store and there was a set of LS50's set up on the floor in one of the demo rooms. I quickly grabbed the same CD out of my van and played it on through the LS50's. Both of us looked at each other and agreed that they were missing something. We couldn't put our finger on what it was. 


Thanks for pointing out the Seas concentric driver. I wasn't aware that they made them! Good luck with your testing!


----------



## bbfoto

High Resolution Audio said:


> I was at Nantucket Sound in Hyannis and I had the salesmen in my Van doing a demo. We walked in the store and *there was a set of LS50's set up on the floor* in one of the demo rooms. I quickly grabbed the same CD out of my van and played it on through the LS50's. Both of us looked at each other and agreed that they were missing something. We couldn't put our finger on what it was.


Uhhhh, if those LS50's were actually on the floor, that would be at least part of the problem. :/ They should basically be at ear level with "open air" below them, i.e. on speaker stands. Also, were you listening to them "near field", as in your van's setup? Plus, you *might* have been missing a Subwoofer when demoing the LS50's?

I don't want to take this thread off track, I'm just making an observation. They ain't gonna sound good on the floor.


----------



## bbfoto

ErinH said:


> yea, that's the problem with using large midranges. You have to make a sacrifice somewhere. Either in directivity at the crossover or in the tweeter range; all with power handling in mind. I think 4-5" mids are kind of the sweet spot for car audio in terms of having the combo of high(er) output and tweeter dispersion. When you go to the next size up then things get a lot more interesting and the tradeoffs begin to show up.
> 
> Of course, what you choose is really up to you and the sound you're chasing. I went directly from a concentric 5" to a 5" mid/1" tweeter and then to a 2.5" mid/0.5" tweeter. All had a pro/con. I loved the output of the 5" satori; I loved the blending of the concentric (though, it had to be crossed over a bit higher than a normal 5") and I loved the space/immersion of the "little speaker" combo due to it's more Omni-directionality.
> 
> There's not really a one-size-fits-all approach to car audio which can be good or bad, depending on how much you need an excuse to play with new toys.





captainobvious said:


> Good points.
> 
> The issue of directivity is also aided by the fact that these would be paired with a large ribbon capable of crossing over much lower than the "beaming point" of the accompanying midrange drivers so that allows flexibility.
> 
> And I agree, there are *always* trade-offs. Both in the gear selection and with regards to each individual vehicle and what works in each. Chasing the dream is part of the fun of this hobby


I'm with Erin in that I still think that a ~4"-5" mid-range is The Sweet Spot for "near field" listening environments, both in terms of tweeter and midbass integration, and output capability, in addition to being able to provide the proper enclosure volume for the midrange driver with most of the mounting locations that are available in a vehicle.

But yeah, I realize that the RAAL ribbons give you more flexibility to integrate with a larger midrange driver, so your experiment and results will be interesting to see.

The Scan 15m is still one of my all-time favorite midrange drivers. The 12m is great as well, but I always find myself coming back to the 15m as _The Best Compromise_.


I think that one potential problem you will face with what you are trying to achieve is System Linearity... meaning, there's a certain point, or output level, where the overall sound quality of your system will start to deteriorate, even if the speaker system itself remains linear.

You may be able to dial in your tune so that it is AMAZEBALLS between 80dB and 105dB or so. But once you start to push beyond that, your "room" becomes more of the sole issue. 

There is a point in nearly ANY room or enclosed listening environment where at high SPL levels things start to get wonky, and the response within the room becomes nonlinear. At a certain point there is just too much acoustic energy and chaos within the space due to reflected energy, modes/nodes, and parts of the car or items within the room (and the room itself) start to resonate. Everything seems to get out of whack... tonality, detail, focus, imaging/sound stage. 

I've experienced this phenomenon in my own vehicles, as well as otherwise excellent home stereo and studio monitoring environments. And this is before the speaker system itself has become nonlinear. Up to a certain level, coherency, tonality, realism, and soundstage are exceptional. But at louder levels, the room becomes too "acoustically interactive" so to speak, and no amount of DSP or "tuning" can address the issue(s). At that point, it is the room that must be fixed, altered, or treated in order to provide "friendly" acoustics at those higher levels. 

I go back to this quote in the last paragraph on this page A LOT:

"In judging the apparent size of an acoustic space, the aural cues depend on many factors, including the time elapsed from hearing the source sound to hearing the earliest reflections, the onset of reverberation, the intensity and duration of reverberation, diffusion of high frequencies, and the resonant frequencies of the reverberation." from *Acoustics: Localization*

...I think that it's quite the challenge to get ALL of this right when working within the small cabin of a vehicle, especially at high SPL levels.


And I could be/and probably am smoking crack here, but in the very small space of a vehicle, perhaps another factor might be the effect on the individual drivers by the impedance of the "room" or pressure loading, in which case some or all of the speakers may no longer be functioning in a linear fashion, even though the same speakers may be fully capable of those levels in free air. I envision it as, in essence, you find yourself sitting on the _inside_ of a multiple-driver, sealed enclosure that isn't tuned properly for any of the specific drivers, LOL. IDK, maybe too much crack, huh? 


But in the end, I think you'll find that you will need to create a specific tune for "normal" listening levels, and/or competition levels, and then a separate tune for your balls-out, "realistic levels" demoing.

However, I'm not convinced that there is one "speaker setup" that will do BOTH well, especially in a car audio environment. Even in some of the best professional recording studio control rooms that I've been in, they have different speaker systems for checking the mix at different levels... Usually a pair of small to medium size 2- or 3-way near- to mid-field monitors for accuracy at "normal" levels, and then a larger Augspurger or JBL M2 pair for "realistic" levels.

But I'm certainly happy to be along for the ride to learn whatever I can from your "mad scientist" experiments!


----------



## captainobvious

To address a couple of the points there...

As for enclosure volumes (which is a valid concern) half of the mids model very well in a small sealed enclosure (like 2.5 liters small) and the others (if chosen) would probably be setup to vent into the large space behind the enclosure provided by the factory. Here is a picture of it. The foam piece can be removed and the hole size is about equivalent to a 4" hole surface area.






As for the output level, etc... I was about 90% to where I want to be last year and no signs of any issues. I think it helps that it is a large cabin. Also, I have some plans for testing/implementing some special acoustic treatments to the interior for competition/demo purposes.

The one thing that I have been keeping in mind as well regarding larger midranges and transition to a tweeter is the fact that breakup will likely occur lower in frequency which is another reason I have been careful with driver selection. All 4 should be pretty good if their factory measurements are a good indication. And yeah, the RAAL's make for an easier task with their low xover ability. If I'm crossing these mids over in that 2k-2.5khz range breakup shouldn't be much of an issue with any of them.


----------



## Elgrosso

bbfoto said:


> ...
> 
> I think that one potential problem you will face with what you are trying to achieve is System Linearity... meaning, there's a certain point, or output level, where the overall sound quality of your system will start to deteriorate, even if the speaker system itself remains linear.
> 
> You may be able to dial in your tune so that it is AMAZEBALLS between 80dB and 105dB or so. But once you start to push beyond that, your "room" becomes more of the sole issue.
> 
> There is a point in nearly ANY room or enclosed listening environment where at high SPL levels things start to get wonky, and the response within the room becomes nonlinear. At a certain point there is just too much acoustic energy and chaos within the space due to reflected energy, modes/nodes, and parts of the car or items within the room (and the room itself) start to resonate. Everything seems to get out of whack... tonality, detail, focus, imaging/sound stage.
> 
> I've experienced this phenomenon in my own vehicles, as well as otherwise excellent home stereo and studio monitoring environments. And this is before the speaker system itself has become nonlinear. Up to a certain level, coherency, tonality, realism, and soundstage are exceptional. But at louder levels, the room becomes too "acoustically interactive" so to speak, and no amount of DSP or "tuning" can address the issue(s). At that point, it is the room that must be fixed, altered, or treated in order to provide "friendly" acoustics at those higher levels.


Interesting, I don’t think I have experienced this, or only partially.
Could we say that the ear itself is probably also responsible?
By the way it mechanically try to protect itself from very loud level and so the fact that we lose some sensibility (+ the Fletcher Munson effect).
I did test my system for linearity some time ago, and was surprised that it was good up to around 105db, didn't try higher.
But I remember another set of measurements with my subs were they clearly showed power compression near 120db, that could also be part of the picture.





bbfoto said:


> I go back to this quote in the last paragraph on this page A LOT:
> 
> "In judging the apparent size of an acoustic space, the aural cues depend on many factors, including the time elapsed from hearing the source sound to hearing the earliest reflections, the onset of reverberation, the intensity and duration of reverberation, diffusion of high frequencies, and the resonant frequencies of the reverberation." *Acoustics: Localization* ...I think that it's quite the challenge to get ALL of this right when working within the small cabin of a vehicle, especially at high SPL levels.


This is nice, might be one of the reason why horns are so good. Low Distortion of course, but also the distribution of energy that favors a bit more the direct sound (what kind of proportion IDK)





bbfoto said:


> And I could be/and probably am smoking crack here, but in the very small space of a vehicle, perhaps another factor might be the effect on the individual drivers by the impedance of the "room" or pressure loading, in which case some or all of the speakers may no longer be functioning in a linear fashion, even though the same speakers may be fully capable of those levels in free air. I envision it as, in essence, you find yourself sitting on the _inside_ of a multiple-driver, sealed enclosure that isn't tuned properly for any of the specific drivers, LOL. IDK, maybe too much crack, huh?


This is good too, I must smoke the same thing, always thought of our car as a big speaker cabinet, while the listener is not outside and in front of it, but inside.
Could even say a sort of bandpass 4 or 6th order with a huge front volume, where we seat 
We could say we’re on top of the real life experiments in inside cabinet acoustic!





bbfoto said:


> But in the end, I think you'll find that you will need to create a specific tune for "normal" listening levels, and/or competition levels, and then a separate tune for your balls-out, "realistic levels" demoing.
> 
> However, I'm not convinced that there is one "speaker setup" that will do BOTH well, especially in a car audio environment. Even in some of the best professional recording studio control rooms that I've been in, they have different speaker systems for checking the mix at different levels... Usually a pair of small to medium size 2- or 3-way near- to mid-field monitors for accuracy at "normal" levels, and then a larger Augspurger or JBL M2 pair for "realistic" levels.
> 
> But I'm certainly happy to be along for the ride to learn whatever I can from your "mad scientist" experiments!


Isn’t it just a way to test their mix on a similar system than the final user?
I can’t imagine the m2 having less details at lower level than a pair of small monitors, even great, but maybe I'm wrong.
Or do they use smaller monitors when they want to minimize the room effect?






captainobvious said:


> The one thing that I have been keeping in mind as well regarding larger midranges and transition to a tweeter is the fact that breakup will likely occur lower in frequency which is another reason I have been careful with driver selection. All 4 should be pretty good if their factory measurements are a good indication. And yeah, the RAAL's make for an easier task with their low xover ability. If I'm crossing these mids over in that 2k-2.5khz range breakup shouldn't be much of an issue with any of them.


Based on your previous description and driver selection I expected lower than that, like below 2Khz.


----------



## captainobvious

Elgrosso said:


> Based on your previous description and driver selection I expected lower than that, like below 2Khz.


They are capable of that, but no reason to cross lower on the tweeter if the midrange is well composed there as well.


----------



## captainobvious

Setting up the demo room...

I got the enclosures built for most of the drivers I'll be auditioning. 3/4" solid wood construction, glued clamped and then screwed. I believe that taking the time to demo equipment prior to installation- both outside the vehicle and then particularly inside the vehicle at different locations, angles, etc is something that can help take a vehicle to the next level. 










Still have several drivers to get mounted up (one or two additional are on their way).




.


----------



## Elgrosso

It's really nice that you share all this process.

About home & in car testing, do you mostly find consistencies or are you sometime surprised?
Like one driver maybe sounds meh in home, but gets much better once in the cabin.
Or the opposite of course.


----------



## captainobvious

Elgrosso said:


> It's really nice that you share all this process.
> 
> About home & in car testing, do you mostly find consistencies or are you sometime surprised?
> Like one driver maybe sounds meh in home, but gets much better once in the cabin.
> Or the opposite of course.



I find there are consistencies with regards to a quality of a driver but not all things translate well when put into the cabin. It really depends on each driver, where it's being installed and what angle, how it loads in that area and how much the reflections affect the response, etc.

Typically if a driver sounds not so appealing in the demo room, it's not going to get too much better inside the vehicle. What I find is that drivers that are fairly bright to begin with _can _be harsh in the vehicle.

I like to demo a bunch of drivers, then take my few favorites and see how they do in the vehicle to narrow down even further to the best drivers for the application.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

DOOOOOODE!!!!!!!!!!!


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## captainobvious

Got the demo setup working now. It's not pretty, but it's functional. I didn't want to cut all new speaker wire lengths (which would have made it much neater and more convenient for me to use the switcher box from my demo seat) so I used the old ones I used last time. Just waiting on 2 more mids to arrive. I was *jamming* on these yesterday and already have some early favorites, but I will hold off on that until I hear the others.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

looks like heaven for cats


----------



## ErinH

captainobvious said:


> Got the demo setup working now. It's not pretty, but it's functional. I didn't want to cut all new speaker wire lengths (which would have made it much neater and more convenient for me to use the switcher box from my demo seat) so I used the old ones I used last time. Just waiting on 2 more mids to arrive. I was *jamming* on these yesterday and already have some early favorites, but I will hold off on that until I hear the others.




Gotta give you props, brother. You're one of the few people I know who go to such lengths to test their gear and understand it before they install it. I think that's a really good way to take the car out of the mix so you can get an idea for what the car is doing once they are installed. That knowledge of what the car is doing can be used down the line when shopping other drivers or even knowing what kind of DSP tweaks you can/should do. For example, we discussed how the Scan 15m has a boosted response above about 1khz and in my car that would mate very well to the boundary reinforcement that boosts the response below about 2khz; which would ultimately net a flat response and higher sensitivity. Another example would be if you hear something anomalous you'll know it's the install or the speaker and can adjust accordingly (or take a sledgehammer to it... whatever works for you, LOL).

Anyway... good stuff here! Really inspiring to see the effort you put in to achieve what you're looking for.


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## SkizeR

He better not take a sledgehammer to those pillars. Not that you could break them with a sledgehammer 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## OnYrMrk

Steve, I look forward to hearing your Ford again this year at the Georgia show. It will be one of the ones I look forward most to listen to. Hope you will trim in that amp/sub rack this year though


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## bertholomey

I love the set up! And I love that track


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## BP1Fanatic

Awesome thread!


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## captainobvious

ErinH said:


> Gotta give you props, brother. You're one of the few people I know who go to such lengths to test their gear and understand it before they install it. I think that's a really good way to take the car out of the mix so you can get an idea for what the car is doing once they are installed. That knowledge of what the car is doing can be used down the line when shopping other drivers or even knowing what kind of DSP tweaks you can/should do. For example, we discussed how the Scan 15m has a boosted response above about 1khz and in my car that would mate very well to the boundary reinforcement that boosts the response below about 2khz; which would ultimately net a flat response and higher sensitivity. Another example would be if you hear something anomalous you'll know it's the install or the speaker and can adjust accordingly (or take a sledgehammer to it... whatever works for you, LOL).
> 
> Anyway... good stuff here! Really inspiring to see the effort you put in to achieve what you're looking for.



Thanks Erin. I hadn't always done it that way, but I've found that it provides such a better understanding of what the drivers can do, both independently and together. Of course when you put them in a vehicle, many things alter the natural response, but many constants are there. I also like to test them at low and high volume to see how drivers remain composed (or do not). Like you said all of this helps when moving them to the vehicle (which is my step 2 for testing before installing anything).

Cheers




SkizeR said:


> He better not take a sledgehammer to those pillars. Not that you could break them with a sledgehammer
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Nothing is touching those pillars  I know they already look and sound badass so if my current adventure doesn't pan out I can always put those right back in. 



OnYrMrk said:


> Steve, I look forward to hearing your Ford again this year at the Georgia show. It will be one of the ones I look forward most to listen to. Hope you will trim in that amp/sub rack this year though



Thanks Joe, much appreciated. The level of completion will really just come down to how much time I have. I'm hoping it is complete aesthetically too.


----------



## captainobvious

bertholomey said:


> I love the set up! And I love that track




Thanks bro. Some day we'll have to get you up here to sit in on the demoing


----------



## gregerst22

captainobvious said:


> Going from 3 subs to a single sub. John is building me a custom IB18AU. Plan is to cut the needed hole and weld in mount/support frame for it.
> 
> I may need to rebuild my kicks a bit too...:surprised: But that's a story for another day


What didn't you like about running the three 12" subs? I bet that IB18AU will dig deep. But how is it different than the AE IB18HT subs?


----------



## captainobvious

gregerst22 said:


> What didn't you like about running the three 12" subs? I bet that IB18AU will dig deep. But how is it different than the AE IB18HT subs?



To start with, a 4.5cubic foot mdf box is both large and quite heavy so that was a detractor. I like the ability for the driver to see that infinite airspace yet not take up a large portion of real estate in the vehicle. In addition, I have heard the IBAU drivers and find them to be very clean and snappy with plenty of low end extension. It's also easier in my opinion to integrate and power a single sub vs a trio. An IB18AU has less mass so it is more efficient. It has a little lower QTS but still the same xmax rating as well. 

It was going to be either Acoustic Elegance or Audio Technology for my subwoofer duties. So it also came down to performance/price. The AT drivers are *vastly* more expensive and I'm not sure it would provide an increase in performance in this application.


----------



## captainobvious

The AT drivers have arrived 

Now I have all the midranges here for testing and auditioning.











I'll also be demoing these and comparing to the existing Scan's I am using...


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## BP1Fanatic

It's a shame the baskets are hidden.


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## ErinH

^ agreed!


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## GEM592

You can demo every driver in the world - this still won't be your last build. But I get it.


----------



## captainobvious

^Probably true. 

I'm always looking for ways to improve the sound so it is always a "work in progress".


----------



## whoever

Sub’d


----------



## mumbles

Hi Steve... I wanted to thank you again for the demo at Jasons. I had heard your Mazda previously and was quite impressed, but the van is on another level in my opinion.

There are the usual superlatives I could use to describe the system, but I can honestly say it is the first vehicle I've listened to that gave me the sensation of being a few rows out from an actual stage, which I think is what we are all striving to achieve!

Your diligence in driver selection and tuning has paid off. The van obviously offers great driver location, but without the proper tuning, location only gets you so far, so be proud, be very proud!


----------



## ErinH

I hadn't heard Steve's car since the SQology show in Atlanta last July where it sounded fantastic. I know he changed the tune on it for finals, where he got high praise from many friends of mine. Unfortunately, I missed that event. So this was my first time hearing it since July. Even though the install was kind of thrown back together - since Steve had been playing around with other things up until the meet - and the tune might have needed a few touch ups due to that, I have to say this sounded very nice. Very nice balance from low to high and just very pleasing to listen to. One of the better systems I’ve heard since I’ve been involved in the hobby. 

As an aside, I just wanted to mention that the distance from the listening position to the speakers (at least the midrange) and the overall size of this vehicle really does something – at least to me – in the psychoacoustic sense where the larger space gives me more room to ‘relax’, as opposed to feeling cramped for space and thus not being able to ‘settle in’ and listen comfortably. I feel this way about larger vehicles in general. And with the distance from the midranges in Steve’s car being so large it adds even more to that feeling. 

I’m sure the next iteration is going to be even better and I’m looking forward to hearing it.


----------



## Zippy

The transit sounds absolutely stunning. It is the home listening experience on the road. You have done some amazing work and it is definitely paying off. 

On a side note, I’m curious if you have had a chance to listen to the SB Acoustic speakers I gave you in NC to try out. I’d like to hear your impressions and if there are other brands you prefer I would love to know what they are so I can pick up a set for myself.


----------



## captainobvious

Zippy said:


> The transit sounds absolutely stunning. It is the home listening experience on the road. You have done some amazing work and it is definitely paying off.
> 
> On a side note, I’m curious if you have had a chance to listen to the SB Acoustic speakers I gave you in NC to try out. I’d like to hear your impressions and if there are other brands you prefer I would love to know what they are so I can pick up a set for myself.


Bo, thank you for the kind comments. I'm glad you enjoyed it. And yes, THANKS again for lending me the SB speakers to test out. I haven't yet had the opportunity to do so, but I should in the next couple weeks here. I'll be sure to let you know what I find. 



ErinH said:


> I hadn't heard Steve's car since the SQology show in Atlanta last July where it sounded fantastic. I know he changed the tune on it for finals, where he got high praise from many friends of mine. Unfortunately, I missed that event. So this was my first time hearing it since July. Even though the install was kind of thrown back together - since Steve had been playing around with other things up until the meet - and the tune might have needed a few touch ups due to that, I have to say this sounded very nice. Very nice balance from low to high and just very pleasing to listen to. One of the better systems I’ve heard since I’ve been involved in the hobby.
> 
> As an aside, I just wanted to mention that the distance from the listening position to the speakers (at least the midrange) and the overall size of this vehicle really does something – at least to me – in the psychoacoustic sense where the larger space gives me more room to ‘relax’, as opposed to feeling cramped for space and thus not being able to ‘settle in’ and listen comfortably. I feel this way about larger vehicles in general. And with the distance from the midranges in Steve’s car being so large it adds even more to that feeling.
> 
> I’m sure the next iteration is going to be even better and I’m looking forward to hearing it.


Thanks Erin. Yes, as you pointed out I had *just* gotten the equipment thrown back in the van right before driving down. In fact, I didn't even have tweeters in until I arrived in NC (Thanks Mark!). My gain settings on the amps weren't restored to the way they were previously ( i just made a couple quick adjustments) and I didn't get time to do an actual retune down there so I was just using a preset from last year and rolling with that so people could at least get an idea of what the van can do. It was (in my opinion) quite excellent at finals and although this past weekend it wasn't quite on that level, I hope it was good enough that people could get a decent sampling of it.



mumbles said:


> Hi Steve... I wanted to thank you again for the demo at Jasons. I had heard your Mazda previously and was quite impressed, but the van is on another level in my opinion.
> 
> There are the usual superlatives I could use to describe the system, but I can honestly say it is the first vehicle I've listened to that gave me the sensation of being a few rows out from an actual stage, which I think is what we are all striving to achieve!
> 
> Your diligence in driver selection and tuning has paid off. The van obviously offers great driver location, but without the proper tuning, location only gets you so far, so be proud, be very proud!


Thank you for the kind words. I agree 100% about the van vs the mazda. In fact, I liked the mazda and still feel the van "poo-poo's" on that one which is kind of crazy.
One thing I think is very nice about the van is exactly what you (and Erin) have said- the deep, spacious presentation. It's been a lot of fun to work on and I'm looking forward to continuing to improve and refine it.


----------



## naiku

ErinH said:


> As an aside, I just wanted to mention that the distance from the listening position to the speakers (at least the midrange) and the overall size of this vehicle really does something – at least to me – in the psychoacoustic sense where the larger space gives me more room to ‘relax’, as opposed to feeling cramped for space and thus not being able to ‘settle in’ and listen comfortably.


I forget who said it to me on Saturday, but someone said it was cheating having your mids 6 feet from the listening position. 

Missed out a demo on Saturday, although John did get a demo (he might have gotten more demos than I did overall :laugh and was suitably impressed. Hopefully, I can get an updated demo sometime soon.


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## Jscoyne2

Which is why people extend seat rails.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## captainobvious

I'm working on getting the TC ready for SVR. 2 weeks to go! 



Just did some listening to the unfinished pieces and I like what I am hearing so far. Image cohesion is superior to the other setup by placing the mid and tweeter so close together and on the same baffle plane.


Here's a little teaser... :surprised:


----------



## ErinH




----------



## SQ Audi

Wow, wish I could make SVR this year, but too much money is going into the company and KFest. I will be at Finals though, so I hope to get a demo there! Good luck at SVR Steve!


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## SkizeR

Sorry guys, season 5 just started and steve will most likely be glued to his xbox. Come back in a month or two for updates 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## bbfoto

captainobvious said:


> I'm working on getting the TC ready for SVR. 2 weeks to go!
> 
> Just did some listening to the unfinished pieces and I like what I am hearing so far. Image cohesion is superior to the other setup by placing the mid and tweeter so close together and on the same baffle plane.
> 
> Here's a little teaser... :surprised:



I can tell you right now...that setup is gonna suck.   




Honestly, just seeing that makes me want to go to SVR, too. Good luck man. :thumbsup:


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## ErinH

bbfoto said:


> Honestly, just seeing that makes me want to go to SVR, too. Good luck man. :thumbsup:


You should come out to finals if you can't make SVR. :2thumbsup:


----------



## captainobvious

SQ Audi said:


> Wow, wish I could make SVR this year, but too much money is going into the company and KFest. I will be at Finals though, so I hope to get a demo there! Good luck at SVR Steve!





Thanks Joe- see you at finals and definitely come by and get a listen


----------



## captainobvious

bbfoto said:


> I can tell you right now...that setup is gonna suck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, just seeing that makes me want to go to SVR, too. Good luck man. :thumbsup:





Hah! Thanks Billy. And I agree with Erin- Come out to finals and hang out for a day or two, meet some of the guys and listen to some crazy cars!


----------



## SQ Audi

captainobvious said:


> Thanks Joe- see you at finals and definitely come by and get a listen


Only if you come and critique my new install. Good luck at SVR!


----------



## captainobvious

SQ Audi said:


> Only if you come and critique my new install. Good luck at SVR!



I'd be happy to come check it out.


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## captainobvious

For those coming to SVR, stop by and get a demo Saturday afternoon or Sunday


----------



## Porsche

what drivers are those?

also, does that not bother you when driving


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## captainobvious

B&W FST Kevlar midrange from their flagship diamond series and the RAAL 140-15d ribbon tweeters.


My car has a large windshield and lots of visibility otherwise so these don't really bother me when driving, no.


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## SkizeR

Gunna be able to hear the no skins from a mile away in this thing. Just gotta add a TV to the center 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## captainobvious

Need Gerald to put one of those drop down LCD's in for me


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## slayersazen

What a journey! Thank you OP!


----------



## D34dl1fter

guys 
do yourselves a favor and get a demo in this thing....heard it last night with very very very minimal tuning done...im talking just level matching and the depth was fn incredible...I heard an upright bass in the sound stage that imaged as if it was coming from a fence in his yard 7 feet out in front of then van.....


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## Elgrosso

Beautiful! Looks like B&W built some monitors just for you


----------



## cmusic

Earl Zausmer's had his B&Ws "melt" once or twice in his BMW due to the heat after he moved to Arizona from Philadelphia. The glues used in the B&W speakers would not stand up to extreme heat. If you park your van outside during the summer, put a windshield screen up or put some towels over your speakers.


----------



## captainobvious

cmusic said:


> Earl Zausmer's had his B&Ws "melt" once or twice in his BMW due to the heat after he moved to Arizona from Philadelphia. The glues used in the B&W speakers would not stand up to extreme heat. If you park your van outside during the summer, put a windshield screen up or put some towels over your speakers.



I actually just ordered (and received) a custom windshield sunscreen exactly for this reason- to protect the speakers from UV and high heat. I am also looking into some side window covers (although they are already tinted). Good thinking Chuck and thanks for the heads up. I hope to see you at finals again this year so you can tell me how it stacks up to the sound last year. 


Cheers


----------



## dcfis

Amazing captain! What frequency are those bws playing.


----------



## DavidRam

captainobvious said:


> Need Gerald to put one of those drop down LCD's in for me


Or a movie theater screen that drops down in front of the windshield with a projector in the back seat! 

I would kill to hear this thing, btw...


----------



## cmusic

Steve, 

Your van was one of the listening highlights of Finals for me last year. I wish I could be at finals this year but last September (2017) and before the date for the 2018 Finals was announced, my wife and I booked and paid for an October 2018 vacation going out of the country. We fly out on October 13th, which is the Saturday of Finals. We are a part of a group trip from my area and it cannot be rescheduled. Plus, my wife thinks car audio is a waste of time, and she would kill me if I skipped our yearly vacation for a "stupid" (her thoughts) car audio show. 

However my good friend John Smith and his orange 2010 Camaro will be at SVR and hopefully Finals. Hopefully he can listen to your van and tell me how it sounds.


----------



## ErinH

cmusic said:


> Steve,
> 
> Your van was one of the listening highlights of Finals for me last year.


I missed finals last year but heard it at Jason's meet this year when he "threw back in" his setup from finals last year and it sounded fantabulous. Steve has a great ear, keen technical insight, and passion for the hobby which always nets the dude one incredible sounding system. I look forward to hearing this latest iteration at finals this year. But in the meantime, go get 'em at SVR, bro!


----------



## captainobvious

cmusic said:


> Steve,
> 
> Your van was one of the listening highlights of Finals for me last year. I wish I could be at finals this year but last September (2017) and before the date for the 2018 Finals was announced, my wife and I booked and paid for an October 2018 vacation going out of the country. We fly out on October 13th, which is the Saturday of Finals. We are a part of a group trip from my area and it cannot be rescheduled. Plus, my wife thinks car audio is a waste of time, and she would kill me if I skipped our yearly vacation for a "stupid" (her thoughts) car audio show.
> 
> However my good friend John Smith and his orange 2010 Camaro will be at SVR and hopefully Finals. Hopefully he can listen to your van and tell me how it sounds.





Chuck-


No worries my friend. The highlight of my entire year each year is vacation with my wife. I'd take that every time over finals or any car audio show. Enjoy your time, live it up! 
Have a fun and safe trip and I'll look forward to catching up whenever our paths cross again.




Sorry I didn't see your message here before I left for SVR regarding your friend John and his Camaro.


----------



## captainobvious

ErinH said:


> I missed finals last year but heard it at Jason's meet this year when he "threw back in" his setup from finals last year and it sounded fantabulous. Steve has a great ear, keen technical insight, and passion for the hobby which always nets the dude one incredible sounding system. I look forward to hearing this latest iteration at finals this year. But in the meantime, go get 'em at SVR, bro!





Very kind of you Erin, and you know I echo the exact same sentiments about you and your technical prowess and drive for excellent sound. I'm always excited to hear what you've been cooking up in your vehicle. Bummer you weren't able to make SVR but I look forward to hanging out at finals buddy!


----------



## cmusic

Steve, 

HUGE CONGRATULATIONS on winning EVERYTHING you entered at SVR. I watched the awards on FB live and they should have had a seat on stage for you to keep you from walking on stage and back off so many times! 1st in your IASCA class, 1st in your MECA class, MECA Best of Show, and 1st in the Top 30! 

Here is the SQology video: 





Next time we meet, I definitely want a good long listen!!

John had a bad time at SVR with his DSP and some bad tuning advice. He did not get it straightened out until Sunday morning when he had only three more top 30 judges to go.


----------



## AD Ventium

Just finished reading this entire thread and my mind has been blown by the level of detail, and time put into this build congrats to CaptainObvious for all of your first place winnings you deserve it sir.


----------



## Porsche

any pics of whole install


----------



## TREOSOLS

Interested to hear this set up


----------



## captainobvious

TREOSOLS said:


> Interested to hear this set up





Been to long. Hopefully we can get together sometime soon!


----------



## AVIDEDTR

any updates to the system?


----------



## captainobvious

AVIDEDTR said:


> any updates to the system?





None as of yet, but I have a few little things planned.


----------



## High Resolution Audio

I sat in Steve's creation at Nick's Summer Jam in Pennsylvania and then again at S.V.R. 

The version at Pennsylvania was not my favourite. 

But at SVR with the new midranges and tweeters, holy cow. That system was on point. Technically perfect. The sound was so smooth and balanced. All the frequencies sounded like they were coming from out in front of the windscreen. It ticked all the boxes in the technical SQ checklist. 

Amazing job, Steve a well-deserved win. It was the best sounding vehicle I have had the pleasure of sitting in. I have listened to an older version of the Magic Bus in 2016. 

Steve has done a fantastic job selecting drivers and tuning to perfection. If anyone gets a chance to sit in the Transit Van, please do. It has created a lasting impression ingrained in my audible memory. I'm still in awe to this day on how fantastic his system truly is. It was time aligned perfectly. Everything blended just right. I can't give enough praise for his incredible mobile audio creation!

A very smooth and buttery presentation. 

As a matter of fact, every vehicle that Steve has tuned that I have sat in has sounded great. 

I had the pleasure of competing against Steve at SVR and will be competing against him again at Finals 2018 as he is now in the Extreme class. At SVR, his system outscored mine by about 5 points. 

Since SVR, I've had to step up my game significantly. I've since installed home tweeters and midranges that I had purchased in 2016 and were laying in a box in my shop for the last two years. 

At finals, we both will have 7" midrange drivers and Ribbon Tweeters from home systems, and a single 18" IB subwoofer. 

My presentation differs a little from Steve's as my system is tuned to be lively and dynamic. 

It's going to be an interesting battle, for sure. It will all depend on the personal preference of the finals judges. 

Good Luck my Friend. Win or lose, it will be an enjoyable experience, for sure.


----------



## PPI_GUY

Wow..what a build! Steve, looking forward to hopefully catching a few minutes in this creation in Louisville. Finals seem to be getting bigger and better every year. Best of luck to all who will be competing!


----------



## almatias

captainobvious said:


> For those coming to SVR, stop by and get a demo Saturday afternoon or Sunday




That must be playing very well! 
Amazing!!!


----------



## captainobvious

High Resolution Audio said:


> I sat in Steve's creation at Nick's Summer Jam in Pennsylvania and then again at S.V.R.
> 
> The version at Pennsylvania was not my favourite.
> 
> But at SVR with the new midranges and tweeters, holy cow. That system was on point. Technically perfect. The sound was so smooth and balanced. All the frequencies sounded like they were coming from out in front of the windscreen. It ticked all the boxes in the technical SQ checklist.
> 
> Amazing job, Steve a well-deserved win. It was the best sounding vehicle I have had the pleasure of sitting in. I have listened to an older version of the Magic Bus in 2016.
> 
> Steve has done a fantastic job selecting drivers and tuning to perfection. If anyone gets a chance to sit in the Transit Van, please do. It has created a lasting impression ingrained in my audible memory. I'm still in awe to this day on how fantastic his system truly is. It was time aligned perfectly. Everything blended just right. I can't give enough praise for his incredible mobile audio creation!
> 
> A very smooth and buttery presentation.
> 
> As a matter of fact, every vehicle that Steve has tuned that I have sat in has sounded great.
> 
> I had the pleasure of competing against Steve at SVR and will be competing against him again at Finals 2018 as he is now in the Extreme class. At SVR, his system outscored mine by about 5 points.
> 
> Since SVR, I've had to step up my game significantly. I've since installed home tweeters and midranges that I had purchased in 2016 and were laying in a box in my shop for the last two years.
> 
> At finals, we both will have 7" midrange drivers and Ribbon Tweeters from home systems, and a single 18" IB subwoofer.
> 
> My presentation differs a little from Steve's as my system is tuned to be lively and dynamic.
> 
> It's going to be an interesting battle, for sure. It will all depend on the personal preference of the finals judges.
> 
> Good Luck my Friend. Win or lose, it will be an enjoyable experience, for sure.







Thanks Gerald. I always push to make the system sound more "real" and able to do so at very pleasing levels  I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing the changes to your vehicle at finals. Don't break anything else!!


----------



## ErinH

One more month until Finals! Let's go Team Sisterhood of the Traveling RCAs!


----------



## captainobvious

Yeah, I am getting there. With some help over the weekend, I got the interior out, got some deadening done that I have been meaning to, ran some cables, etc. Looking forward to this weekend!


----------



## BP1Fanatic

Those pods are visually stunning!


----------



## mumbles

Steve, not really sure how the system could sound any better than it did with the Satoris, so the B&W's must be pretty special!


----------



## captainobvious

mumbles said:


> Steve, not really sure how the system could sound any better than it did with the Satoris, so the B&W's must be pretty special!



Thanks 


It definitely stepped it up a notch. I have a couple more things to work on in the offseason to bring it up to its potential, but it's getting close now. I managed to win the Iasca ProAm championship last weekend and took 2nd in Meca Extreme


----------



## AVIDEDTR

captainobvious said:


> I managed


:surprised:

Great work buddy


----------



## Truthunter

Congrats Steve!


----------



## captainobvious

Thanks gents


----------



## Mike Bober

captainobvious said:


> B&W FST Kevlar midrange from their flagship diamond series and the RAAL 140-15d ribbon tweeters.
> 
> 
> My car has a large windshield and lots of visibility otherwise so these don't really bother me when driving, no.


Im a bit curious.....did you buy the Diamond Series speakers just to get and test the midranges? :snacks::biggrinflip:


----------



## captainobvious

Mike Bober said:


> Im a bit curious.....did you buy the Diamond Series speakers just to get and test the midranges? :snacks::biggrinflip:







Nope. I have demo'd those though on a couple occasions.


----------



## ErinH

Heard this car this weekend and finals and it sounded fantastic. Excellent work, Steve!


----------



## rockinridgeline

Heard so many superlatives about this system at Finals and really wanted to get a listen. Every time I walked by someone was sitting in the driver seat and I never got a chance. congrats on doing very well!


----------



## High Resolution Audio

Congratulations on your placement at the Finals. 

You are a busy man, and I witnessed you putting a lot of time helping others with their systems. I applaud you for all the positive things that you do for people in this sport. 

It's been a pleasure to be in your company. I enjoyed competing against you. You have taught me humility, sportsmanship, and what it means to have an incredible sounding, technically perfect sound system. 

Thanks, Steve.


----------



## captainobvious

Thanks gents- very kind of you!


----------



## mumbles

Hopefully you will make the journey down for Jasons spring GTG... would love to hear this new iteration!


----------



## captainobvious

rockinridgeline said:


> Heard so many superlatives about this system at Finals and really wanted to get a listen. Every time I walked by someone was sitting in the driver seat and I never got a chance. congrats on doing very well!



Stay there and get my attention next time! I'll happily get you in for a demo.


----------



## captainobvious

mumbles said:


> Hopefully you will make the journey down for Jasons spring GTG... would love to hear this new iteration!





I certainly hope to. It's always fun getting together with my friends in NC and catching up.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Youngman

Thank you so much for allowing me to listen to your system today at HAT. I am still sitting here wondering what just happened. I appreciate you allowing me to sit and just listen. Much success!!!


----------



## Middleby

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Youngman
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much for allowing me to listen to your system today at HAT. I am still sitting here wondering what just happened. I appreciate you allowing me to sit and just listen. Much success!!!




Had to do a frantic google search after reading this in hopes it didn’t mean what I thought it meant and just got my parade pissed on. Soooooo blowed I missed the sqology event today. Was really looking forward to hopefully hearing the wagon. Is it just one day this year? It was split up into two last year. Holding onto hope here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Middleby said:


> Had to do a frantic google search after reading this in hopes it didn’t mean what I thought it meant and just got my parade pissed on. Soooooo blowed I missed the sqology event today. Was really looking forward to hopefully hearing the wagon. Is it just one day this year? It was split up into two last year. Holding onto hope here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That system was worth every second of it. I don't have words for it, I do. Even when I was listening, I just sat there was just stuck! I shared my thoughts with Steve directly. This system is one for anyone to use as a reference for sure. The system was tuned to perfection. The system was balanced. There was no heaviness to the system. Song, just did what it was supposed to do, I truly got lost in the music. 

That's the feeling you desire when listening to a great install and equipment. No lie - did not know there was a sub in the rear, until after the music shut off. I shared with him about a sub and I thought it was only front stage. He showed me the subwoofer - the godfather - JBL Gti 15"! He did what he was supposed to do!!!


----------



## bertholomey

Huckleberry Sound said:


> That system was worth every second of it. I don't have words for it, I do. Even when I was listening, I just sat there was just stuck! I shared my thoughts with Steve directly. This system is one for anyone to use as a reference for sure. The system was tuned to perfection. The system was balanced. There was no heaviness to the system. Song, just did what it was supposed to do, I truly got lost in the music.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the feeling you desire when listening to a great install and equipment. No lie - did not know there was a sub in the rear, until after the music shut off. I shared with him about a sub and I thought it was only front stage. He showed me the subwoofer - the godfather - JBL Gti 15"! He did what he was supposed to do!!!




To add to this (I heard it at the NCSQ Meet in early May - it is likely even better now), I echo all that you said about the effortless flow of the music and the sense of......”I have a 512GB card in this DAP - I want to sit here and listen to every track I have - even the ones I don’t like” 

One of my biggest takeaways from the experience - the staging is unlike any other vehicle I have experienced. Width, depth, and height were extraordinary - truly remarkable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Middleby

Where is the closest to Atlanta you’ll be for the rest of the season Steve? Extremely disappointed I missed this but would love to get a demo if you’re somewhere close enough to drive within reason. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SkizeR

Middleby said:


> Where is the closest to Atlanta you’ll be for the rest of the season Steve? Extremely disappointed I missed this but would love to get a demo if you’re somewhere close enough to drive within reason.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My guess is finals

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## D34dl1fter

Middleby said:


> Where is the closest to Atlanta you’ll be for the rest of the season Steve? Extremely disappointed I missed this but would love to get a demo if you’re somewhere close enough to drive within reason.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Guys im pretty sure that this show is a 2 day show and will finish up today so if youre able id head over to the venue today


----------



## captainobvious

Thank you for the very kind words everyone. It was great to see you at the show Huckleberry and I'm glad you finally got the opportunity to get a demo. Was nice meeting you and I hope you get to check it out again when it is finished. 




Yes, Nick is right that the furthest south I will be with it again will likely be Louisville for Finals this season. I'm also scheduled to be at SVR in West Virginia and also at the big show at Apicella Autosound in NY in August. As always, my vehicle is always open for demo's and feedback. 



Cheers


----------



## captainobvious

I've been meaning to add this update. Finally getting around to it.


I modified the dash source panel to house some new equipment. Had to fab a mount, add threaded inserts, etc just to provide secure mounting for the pieces before I could even work on the aesthetics of the dash panel. I used all type 1 pvc for that portion.


----------



## captainobvious




----------



## captainobvious




----------



## Zippy

Amazing work Steve!


----------



## Stycker

That is bad-ass. I'm going to have to do something similar with my dash as nobody makes an aftermarket dash kit for radio replacement. This has inspired me. I would love to see and hear your system someday.


----------



## bertholomey

That piece does look incredible in there! I am so looking forward to hearing the new iteration of the pimp sled! 

Funny though - I think someone at the meet may have taken that volume knob as a souvenir......’listen children, this volume knob was out of the most spectacular sounding vehicle on the planet.....and I have this knob as a reminder of that mind blowing experience’ 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## captainobvious

bertholomey said:


> Funny though - I think someone at the meet may have taken that volume knob as a souvenir......







I finally found it btw! :blush:
The set screws for those knobs come loose from time to time. If they fall out, good luck finding them, they are so tiny.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

captainobvious said:


> I finally found it btw! :blush:
> The set screws for those knobs come loose from time to time. If they fall out, good luck finding them, they are so tiny.


WHAT IS THIS STEVE-O


----------



## cmusic

How is the RME DAC and Helix DSP ran? I assume a DAP runs digital into the RME and analog XLR to RCA out to the Helix?


----------



## ErinH

Nice work, Steve.


----------



## captainobvious

Thanks gents!






cmusic said:


> How is the RME DAC and Helix DSP ran? I assume a DAP runs digital into the RME and analog XLR to RCA out to the Helix?





The RME is fed by a tablet via USB digital so I can process up to like quad rate DSD. The DAC sends analog outs to the dsp. It's a very sweet piece. RME makes some extremely good pro audio/studio gear and their engineering is quite good. You can read reviews on this unit all over the web, pretty much only excellent things to say about it. This unit is the Pro FS Black Edition (limited).


----------



## BigAl205

For a minute there, I thought you were building a Cylon Centurion helmet. Your craftsmanship is amazing.


----------



## bbfoto

captainobvious said:


> Thanks gents!
> 
> The RME is fed by a tablet via USB digital so I can process up to like quad rate DSD. The DAC sends analog outs to the dsp. It's a very sweet piece. RME makes some extremely good pro audio/studio gear and their engineering is quite good. You can read reviews on this unit all over the web, pretty much only excellent things to say about it. This unit is the Pro FS Black Edition (limited).


Sweet setup, Steve, and really nice fab work! 

Yeah, pretty much anything that RME makes is rock solid and top notch. :thumbsup: I'm using one of the new Mytek Digital units which is very similar.


----------



## benny z

Lookin good!


----------



## captainobvious

bbfoto said:


> Sweet setup, Steve, and really nice fab work!
> 
> Yeah, pretty much anything that RME makes is rock solid and top notch. :thumbsup: I'm using one of the new Mytek Digital units which is very similar.



Brooklyn DAC/DAC+ ? Those are also quite good.


----------



## oabeieo

Nice! 

Keep it up! That sick man I love it


----------



## bbfoto

captainobvious said:


> Brooklyn DAC/DAC+ ? Those are also quite good.


I use the Mytek Brooklyn ADC in the home studio and the Brooklyn Bridge (which is basically a Brooklyn DAC+ but with network/wireless streaming capability).


----------



## tyroneshoes

Amazing build...I dont remember the name but when I was on the 250 watts and below comp in NJ around 1993 when I was Team zapco/Sounds Impossible, I heard a B&W set up in a sedan that was the most impressive setup I ever heard. Won pretty much everything. Im sure some of you remember that vehicle. I ended up picking up some B&W replacement drivers but they had no excursion (not diamond)but man, the detail and openness of these, I believe 8" B&Ws in the guy car has been what ive been chasing for a very long time. 

And I took first too, just two zapco comp 100 (lil cheater amps), Oz Superman 5.25 set, pioneer deck, dual isobaric Oz 300L, ported. Sounded amazing, but once I stepped into the B&W car, I realized I was just scratching the surface.

Amazing work brother. Inspirational. and uhhh....expensive. But who cares. If you can buy **** you really want, and your family is fed and in good health...Spend on your happiness. And I can tell you see this as an art. Mazel Tov.

If you want to sell some of the drivers that diidnt make it let me know. 

FYI, I didnt like the KEF concentric drivers either in the pic. I had much better luck using Kef concentric 6" Drivers from their mid line (name escapes me but poly and fabric dome. Very smilar to the KEF car audio but no dried ferrofluid and cheaper. I ended installing them in my ceiling for surrounds after not getting the imaging of a low door install concentric.

B&W...they are amazing woofers, but lots of time in dialing them in and sound slike you nailed it. GREAT POST AND DESERVED WIN!

Thise ribbons and those B&Ws and your tuning prowess...I want to hear. Sound like a perfect pair and the on axis certainly helps the large woofer play up to the ribbons. Great design and thought and next level build skills


----------



## captainobvious

tyroneshoes said:


> Amazing build...I dont remember the name but when I was on the 250 watts and below comp in NJ around 1993 when I was Team zapco/Sounds Impossible, I heard a B&W set up in a sedan that was the most impressive setup I ever heard. Won pretty much everything. Im sure some of you remember that vehicle. I ended up picking up some B&W replacement drivers but they had no excursion (not diamond)but man, the detail and openness of these, I believe 8" B&Ws in the guy car has been what ive been chasing for a very long time.
> 
> And I took first too, just two zapco comp 100 (lil cheater amps), Oz Superman 5.25 set, pioneer deck, dual isobaric Oz 300L, ported. Sounded amazing, but once I stepped into the B&W car, I realized I was just scratching the surface.
> 
> Amazing work brother. Inspirational. and uhhh....expensive. But who cares. If you can buy **** you really want, and your family is fed and in good health...Spend on your happiness. And I can tell you see this as an art. Mazel Tov.
> 
> If you want to sell some of the drivers that diidnt make it let me know.
> 
> FYI, I didnt like the KEF concentric drivers either in the pic. I had much better luck using Kef concentric 6" Drivers from their mid line (name escapes me but poly and fabric dome. Very smilar to the KEF car audio but no dried ferrofluid and cheaper. I ended installing them in my ceiling for surrounds after not getting the imaging of a low door install concentric.
> 
> B&W...they are amazing woofers, but lots of time in dialing them in and sound slike you nailed it. GREAT POST AND DESERVED WIN!
> 
> Thise ribbons and those B&Ws and your tuning prowess...I want to hear. Sound like a perfect pair and the on axis certainly helps the large woofer play up to the ribbons. Great design and thought and next level build skills





Thank you sir. The only one I am aware of competing back then and using B&W drivers was Earl Zausmer. I never heard his vehicle but people certainly loved it.


Cheers


----------



## tyroneshoes

captainobvious said:


> Thank you sir. The only one I am aware of competing back then and using B&W drivers was Earl Zausmer. I never heard his vehicle but people certainly loved it.
> 
> 
> Cheers


Thats him...Best car I ever heard. Also smart keeping them indoor on the dash, they dont like (wet) weather variations and you removed that issue


----------



## Audio Options

did you ever get the ib sub setup finished?


----------



## onlyontwo

Oh my... I just wanted to follow this build.


----------



## Coppertone

Any updates with this build Steve ?


----------



## SkizeR

Coppertone said:


> Any updates with this build Steve ?


Well he was at my shop for 3 days this past weekend, there should be updates soon 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

sneak peak


----------



## captainobvious

AVIDEDTR said:


> sneak peak





:laugh: 

Wait wuttt?


Nice looking trunk though!


----------



## Mic10is

AVIDEDTR said:


> sneak peak


Sorry, but not enough black trunk liner to be Steve's pimp sled:laugh::laugh:


----------



## AVIDEDTR

captainobvious said:


> Wait wuttt?
> 
> 
> Nice looking trunk though!


I'll delete thread derailed

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

AVIDEDTR said:


> sneak peak





captainobvious said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Wait wuttt?
> 
> 
> Nice looking trunk though!





Mic10is said:


> Sorry, but not enough black trunk liner to be Steve's pimp sled:laugh::laugh:





AVIDEDTR said:


> I'll delete thread derailed
> 
> Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


Fixed, sorry here is the real install.:laugh:


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Thump!!!


----------



## captainobvious

Update time...


But first, I owe a huge thanks to my friend Nick Apicella for helping me out during my crunch time leading up to finals. He knew it was going to be nearly impossible for me to get all I needed accomplished in time and invited me up to work side by side and knock some things out. Awesome!






PILLARS: These were wrapped in Alcantara by Nick with one single piece- no seams, no stitches. 









































Here is the only pic I had on my phone of them installed. I'll update later with some better pics....


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Ridiculously AWESOME.


----------



## SkizeR

captainobvious said:


> Update time...
> 
> 
> But first, I owe a huge thanks to my friend Nick Apicella for helping me out during my crunch time leading up to finals. He knew it was going to be nearly impossible for me to get all I needed accomplished in time and invited me up to work side by side and knock some things out. Awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PILLARS: These were wrapped in Alcantara by Nick with one single piece- no seams, no stitches.


You're welcome any time. We probably make for the slowest install team in history, but at least we have fun. Big Daddy Kev was who kept it on schedule lol

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

SkizeR said:


> You're welcome any time. We probably make for the slowest install team in history, but at least we have fun. Big Daddy Kev was who kept it on schedule lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


let me guess, you both were playing xbox while Kev was busting his ass.:laugh:


----------



## BP1Fanatic

Wow! 8's?


----------



## cmusic

Steve, your install looked incredible! I'm SO jealous of your amps! While there were some very nice amp racks at Finals but your amp rack was the best looking of the entire show! I wished I had gotten to listen to it, but I had to leave and I did not want to disturb you while you were waiting on judges to come by.


----------



## SkizeR

AVIDEDTR said:


> let me guess, you both were play xbox while Kev was busting his ass.


No to the first part, yes to the second lol

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

captainobvious said:


> Update time...
> [/URL]


As always nice work!!! Sealed enclosures? What mid and tweet did you switch to?


----------



## captainobvious

cmusic said:


> Steve, your install looked incredible! I'm SO jealous of your amps! While there were some very nice amp racks at Finals but your amp rack was the best looking of the entire show! I wished I had gotten to listen to it, but I had to leave and I did not want to disturb you while you were waiting on judges to come by.



Thanks and it pains me that I had to turn away some people earlier on when I was either working on it still, or had judges coming by next  

Next time I'll get there a day earlier so I can just open it up and be ready right away. :blush:


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## captainobvious

BP1Fanatic said:


> Wow! 8's?





168mm so around 6.5"-7"


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## captainobvious

SkizeR said:


> You're welcome any time. We probably make for the slowest install team in history, but at least we have fun. Big Daddy Kev was who kept it on schedule lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



I'm slow to begin with, but put us together and we could get afull build done in a year or two :laugh::laugh:


Thanks again for the assist! (Emphasis on the ASS).


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## captainobvious

KICKS: I changed from the Scan 25W Classic 10" to the Dynaudio MW190






Yeah these should fit...


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## GreatLaBroski

YES THE BLIESMAS 

Edit: and daymnn those are some mega kicks!


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## captainobvious

WIRING and deadening. A big thanks goes out to Leonard Day for coming out to my place to help get some deadening done on the trunk where it needed it. He did a great job.


All new wiring was installed, 12awg and techflexed/labeled. New wiring pulled through door molex for tweeters (this is never fun).


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## rton20s

GreatLaBroski said:


> YES THE BLIESMAS


I had the same reaction. 

So did you switch out the B&W mids to something else? If so, I'm guessing it was a total budget driver. Maybe something from Mavin? 

I'm looking forward to Nick's video of you. I mean... the car. Yeah... the car.


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## BP1Fanatic

[email protected], 6.5's in the window and 10's in the kick panel...talk about upfront stage!


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## benny z

Heard it. Liked it. Learned I need to up my gains. 

Good stuff mang!


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## captainobvious

rton20s said:


> I had the same reaction.
> 
> So did you switch out the B&W mids to something else? If so, I'm guessing it was a total budget driver. Maybe something from Mavin?
> 
> I'm looking forward to Nick's video of you. I mean... the car. Yeah... the car.





Hahah! 

Midrange was the same for finals - B&W.


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## captainobvious

BP1Fanatic said:


> [email protected], 6.5's in the window and 10's in the kick panel...talk about upfront stage!





MW190 is their 12" woofer


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## captainobvious

Again.....unfinished, but here is the progress on the trunk build....




To start, I knew I wanted to improve upon my midbass and subbass sound from last year. I built the new kicks with the Dyns and I am VERY please with those. For the subs, I installed (2) JBL w15GTi's. I decidd to go with an infinite baffle configuration to reduce the amount of weight from an enclosure, reduce the power required and allow for the most extension.


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## captainobvious

........
























Multiple M10 bolts of the proper rating are used to secure the build to the metal structure of the vehicle:





















Aluminum amp rack frames bolted to the base via many 1/4-20 bolts.


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## benny z

No more Revelation Audio, I see!


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## captainobvious

.......


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## SkizeR

benny z said:


> No more Revelation Audio, I see!


The revelation was that there is no revelation 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## rton20s

SkizeR said:


> The revelation was that there is no revelation


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## dgage

That’s is beautiful! So by IB you mean your using the great outdoors as your enclosure. Nice! I’m assuming it is pretty loud outside when you’re playing. Can you show some pictures and describe how you weather-proofed the area under your car and subs? Thanks.


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## rockinridgeline

Looks great in person Steve! Nice to chat with you even though it was just for a moment. We were both in hyper mode I think. Next time I see you I want to hear it. I thought it was great in GA this year.


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## AVIDEDTR

benny z said:


> Heard it. Liked it. Learned I need to up my gains.
> 
> Good stuff mang!


Ya think? Gain is only to be set to the max like the SPL'ers

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


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## Notloudenuf

That's 'Amphenge' (TM) right?


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## casey

wow everything is looking great! The LED lighting on the rack reflecting off the amps looks pretty sick, like a lightning strike almost.


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## bbfoto

The "New & Improved" TC install looks _CRAZY GOOD_, Steve!

Can't even imagine how good it must sound.


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## bertholomey

It sounds incredible! I only had a few minutes in it, and it was improved over the last version (which is shocking to even type because the last version was so good). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## captainobvious

casey said:


> wow everything is looking great! The LED lighting on the rack reflecting off the amps looks pretty sick, like a lightning strike almost.



An unintentional, but cool effect 




bbfoto said:


> The "New & Improved" TC install looks _CRAZY GOOD_, Steve!
> 
> Can't even imagine how good it must sound.



Thanks Billy. I have more to go on the build (and tune) as I didn't have any time to experiment and tinker with it prior to finals. I powered the system on for the first time Thursday night and left Friday early morning for Louisville :surprised:
But it certainly is an upgrade - particularly the midbass and subbass. I just have to spend some time finishing it up and digging in on the tune and I think it will be very impressive.




bertholomey said:


> It sounds incredible! I only had a few minutes in it, and it was improved over the last version (which is shocking to even type because the last version was so good).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





Thanks Jason! wish we had more time to listen to each others cars and hang out at finals


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## rain27

Curious how you went about testing all of the woofers in a home environment...it looks like you built small sealed enclosures that were all the same in size. If this is correct, were all the midrange speakers that were selected for testing needing to fit in that same sealed enclosure volume once transferred to the car? I assume all speakers were chosen that would perform well in a small sealed box?


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## captainobvious

The larger mids were tested in enclosures of appx 6.5 liters, plus stuffing. The smaller mids were tested in 2 liter enclosures. These sizes were a good middle ground for the mids for testing in sealed. Most of the mids could be used in sealed or IB applications.


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## BP1Fanatic

I've been placing a 2.5lb Olympic weight plate on the cones for Vas measurements for 12's and 15's. I have to figure out what I'm going to do for the 8's I need to measure.


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## captainobvious




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## captainobvious




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## captainobvious

This is with the original tweeter pods. I have to fabricate some new lower profile mounts for the tweeters.


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## dgage

Looks really nice! What tweeter is that? I looked back a few pages but other than someone saying Bliesma, I wasn’t sure what you ended up with. 

Your board looks like my closet. Focal, Dyn, AF, Illusion tweets and mids so I can test to see what I like best. Lol!


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## captainobvious

Thanks.
It's the Scanspeak D3004/6640 Beryllium (Illuminator).


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## BP1Fanatic

Those pods look nice as h3ll!


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## Huckleberry Sound

Any updates?

Amazing work!


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## oabeieo

That 6” driver is making me drool 🤤 
I love it


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## captainobvious

Thanks guys. Haven't updated anything in a while on the thread. There are a few (small) changes 

I'll try to get to them soon. Overall I'm pretty happy though with the system daily.


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