# Topping d10 wiring



## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Bit the bullet to move to a d10 after 1.5 years of nothing but problems with the helix usb hec. I have come across a few people using these but trying to get a solid answer as to weather the d10 needs an external power source or can be powered through the Apple camera adapater. There is a cable out of France that makes power both the camera adapter to charge and the d10 easy but no one in USA that makes one. Any thoughts? 


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

I use the Apple camera kit (cck3) to power my D10 no problem.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DaveG said:


> I use the Apple camera kit (cck3) to power my D10 no problem.


For sure. Any charging or connectivity issues? Which optical cable are using? Helix processor? 


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Absolutely no connection issues! Toslink cable is nothing special... I think I got it from monoprice. Yes dsp.3 but it also works just as well with my minidsp too.
You’ll need lightning cable to cck3 and then I think it’s a a-c usb to the d10 and then toslink to your dsp.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

DaveG said:


> Absolutely no connection issues! Toslink cable is nothing special... I think I got it from monoprice. Yes dsp.3 but it also works just as well with my minidsp too.
> You’ll need lightning cable to cck3 and then I think it’s a a-c usb to the d10 and then toslink to your dsp.


It is with later cck3, it’s a small doctoring of the leads for connecting the topping to the cck3 and you are away 👍🏼


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

I bought a $12 generic CCK on Amazon to use with a generic toslink. Works perfect into toslink on Match UP 7DSP, while it charges my iPhone.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

I use an Anker PD USB Hub that works with Android, Apple and Laptops.








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## Stycker (Jan 31, 2018)

iPod gen 7>apple cck> USB power>Topping d10s>optical>Helix V8. No problems and the best starting signal I've ever had.


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## Selkec (Nov 18, 2018)

daloudin said:


> I use an Anker PD USB Hub that works with Android, Apple and Laptops.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How do you connect everything with this hub


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## squiers007 (Sep 12, 2012)

Stycker said:


> iPod gen 7>apple cck> USB power>Topping d10s>optical>Helix V8. No problems and the best starting signal I've ever had.


Forgive my ignorance, but the D10 in this setup is only there to convert the digital signal from USB to optical correct? Are there not devices that can do this without a built in DAC? Seems like a waste to have the DAC and not use it.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

squiers007 said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but the D10 in this setup is only there to convert the digital signal from USB to optical correct? Are there not devices that can do this without a built in DAC? Seems like a waste to have the DAC and not use it.


It's to get around a few usb/helix issues 


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## squiers007 (Sep 12, 2012)

Redliner99 said:


> It's to get around a few usb/helix issues
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok, so if not using a helix you could use something like this instead of the D10 to convert USB to optical?

Amazon.com: Douk Audio USB Converter XMOS XU208 Digital Interface TOSLINK Coaxial DOP SPDIF Adapter DSD64 PCM192Khz: Home Audio & Theater


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

squiers007 said:


> Ok, so if not using a helix you could use something like this instead of the D10 to convert USB to optical?
> 
> Amazon.com: Douk Audio USB Converter XMOS XU208 Digital Interface TOSLINK Coaxial DOP SPDIF Adapter DSD64 PCM192Khz: Home Audio & Theater


That’s all good if you think all dacs and usb bridges are created equal, it’s not just the digital converter chip or d/a converter, it’s everything around it, the topping d10s makes an amazing job of being a dac for the money, besting devices that cost 5-10 times as much!

I have found that it performs as a digital bridge in the same manner... excellently

For me, all devices aren’t created equally, a topping d10s via digital sounds better than a usb hec for me back to back


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## squiers007 (Sep 12, 2012)

dumdum said:


> That’s all good if you think all dacs and usb bridges are created equal, it’s not just the digital converter chip or d/a converter, it’s everything around it, the topping d10s makes an amazing job of being a dac for the money, besting devices that cost 5-10 times as much!
> 
> I have found that it performs as a digital bridge in the same manner... excellently
> 
> For me, all devices aren’t created equally, a topping d10s via digital sounds better than a usb hec for me back to back


I have found little to know info out there on "usb bridges" (sorry never heard those term before), and digital converters and simply want a solid usb to optical converter. I agree that not all are created equal, but haven't found any objective measurements for one over another. I'd be interested to know what chipset the d10 uses for this? 

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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

Selkec said:


> How do you connect everything with this hub


The USB hub gets powered from my dedicated 100W USB C power adapter. Then the Topping (or Douk Audio U2) AND the phone get power from the Hub while it simultaneously carries the data from the phone to the optical bridge device. 

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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

squiers007 said:


> Ok, so if not using a helix you could use something like this instead of the D10 to convert USB to optical?
> 
> Amazon.com: Douk Audio USB Converter XMOS XU208 Digital Interface TOSLINK Coaxial DOP SPDIF Adapter DSD64 PCM192Khz: Home Audio & Theater


I have both and use the U2 for mobile since the D10s is overkill as "just" an optical converter. The U2 is easier to hide (theft prevention) and simply works. As a digital to digital "bridge" without doing any conversion or resampling it appears to be totally transparent but then I can't 'hear' the difference between 48, 96 and 192khz in the Jeep anyway. The U2 can also be phone powered as it's very low power consumption. 

Agree with @dumdum that I'd like to see empirical testing of the U2 to see if it's really transparent to the signal or if it's doing something hinky...

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## Cutaway (May 5, 2020)

squiers007 said:


> I'd be interested to know what chipset the d10 uses for this?


The Topping D10s uses the Sabre ES9038Q2M 
There are a lot of articles reviewing the D10s but here is one from Headfonics & another from AudioScienceReview


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Cutaway said:


> The Topping D10s uses the Sabre ES9038Q2M
> There are a lot of articles reviewing the D10s but here is one from Headfonics & another from AudioScienceReview


I’m presuming he means for the digital to digital side of things not as a dac 👍🏼


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## vectrasoundz (Jan 19, 2020)

daloudin said:


> The USB hub gets powered from my dedicated 100W USB C power adapter. Then the Topping (or Douk Audio U2) AND the phone get power from the Hub while it simultaneously carries the data from the phone to the optical bridge device.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Hey, can you use a flashdrive or harddrive in the hub also?


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

vectrasoundz said:


> Hey, can you use a flashdrive or harddrive in the hub also?


Yes, the phone recognizes my jump drives and the songs show up in my library on UAPP.

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## Cutaway (May 5, 2020)

daloudin said:


> Yes, the phone recognizes my jump drives and the songs show up in my library on UAPP.


That is super useful and something i never considered... Do you have your phone, USB device and D10S USB all plugged into a USB HUB?


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

Cutaway said:


> That is super useful and something i never considered... Do you have your phone, USB device and D10S USB all plugged into a USB HUB?


Yes, currently using the Douk Audio U2 but it works the same with the D10S in place of the U2.









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## squiers007 (Sep 12, 2012)

daloudin said:


> Yes, currently using the Douk Audio U2 but it works the same with the D10S in place of the U2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I was looking into doing. So you're going USB OTG from your Galaxy into the hub, then out via the Douk to your Helix? How do you access the files on the thumb drive, via the phone? Also, why the iphone and the galaxy? Thanks.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

squiers007 said:


> This is exactly what I was looking into doing. So you're going USB OTG from your Galaxy into the hub, then out via the Douk to your Helix? How do you access the files on the thumb drive, via the phone? Also, why the iphone and the galaxy? Thanks.


OTG > Helix = Yes (and you can use Toslink or Coax - the Coax will go up to 192khz whereas the fiber is limited to 96khz on Helix inputs) just make sure you find an adapter to provide sufficient USB power to the Hub - I'm using an extra Dell USB C Air/Auto laptop charger that outputs 90W or 18 Amps at 5VDC to make sure I have enough power for all the stuff being plugged in at the same time. If you use one of those 18 Watt car adapters it won't keep up.

I use UAPP on the phone to access thumb drive (you have to add USB drive as a folder in UAPP and give it access to the external storage but after that it works fine.) But basically any music app will work and I've tested Samsung Music Center, Apple Music, Google Play, Spotify and a couple of others to see which ones can bypass the Android Audio Layer but UAPP always works where some of the others can be flaky at times.

My wife has iPhone and I have Android - plus it affords me the ability to test both platforms as new streaming providers come online to see if I like them any better than Amazon HD.


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## squiers007 (Sep 12, 2012)

daloudin said:


> OTG > Helix = Yes (and you can use Toslink or Coax - the Coax will go up to 192khz whereas the fiber is limited to 96khz on Helix inputs) just make sure you find an adapter to provide sufficient USB power to the Hub - I'm using an extra Dell USB C Air/Auto laptop charger that outputs 90W or 18 Amps at 5VDC to make sure I have enough power for all the stuff being plugged in at the same time. If you use one of those 18 Watt car adapters it won't keep up.
> 
> I use UAPP on the phone to access thumb drive (you have to add USB drive as a folder in UAPP and give it access to the external storage but after that it works fine.) But basically any music app will work and I've tested Samsung Music Center, Apple Music, Google Play, Spotify and a couple of others to see which ones can bypass the Android Audio Layer but UAPP always works where some of the others can be flaky at times.
> 
> My wife has iPhone and I have Android - plus it affords me the ability to test both platforms as new streaming providers come online to see if I like them any better than Amazon HD.


This is great info. Thanks!


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## bonesb (Sep 19, 2017)

I am looking for a similar setup. I want to remove my hu and all analog connections. 

So the dsp powers on with the source from the phone? 

I don't need any other power sources? Amps, dsp etc will get on when I play the music? 

I was looking at using the below;








Mini XMOS XU208 USB DAC Decoder Audio Converter Coaxial Digital Interface DSD256


Douk Audio Q2 is a USB DAC & digital interface (USB to coaxial converter), adopting high-end chip architecture to achieve much better sound quality than the similar products in the market




www.doukaudio.com


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

bonesb said:


> I am looking for a similar setup. I want to remove my hu and all analog connections.
> 
> So the dsp powers on with the source from the phone?
> 
> ...


No the dsp will need either an ignition feed or a 12v switched feed of some kind to switch on, there is no auto switch on for a digital in on any dsp I’ve ever seen, it’s normally from analogue input that this works 👍🏼


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## bonesb (Sep 19, 2017)

dumdum said:


> No the dsp will need either an ignition feed or a 12v switched feed of some kind to switch on, there is no auto switch on for a digital in on any dsp I’ve ever seen, it’s normally from analogue input that this works 👍🏼
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Thank you


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## bonesb (Sep 19, 2017)

Since I use an android phone, I have been on a hunt for a good otg cable with charging. Anyone has any reccomendations? I tried a USB hub, but it seems to be not working.


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## BitPerfect_ (Oct 16, 2021)

daloudin said:


> [...] I've tested Samsung Music Center, Apple Music, Google Play, Spotify and a couple of others to see which ones can bypass the Android Audio Layer but UAPP always works where some of the others can be flaky at times.
> 
> My wife has iPhone and I have Android - plus it affords me the ability to test both platforms as new streaming providers come online to see if I like them any better than Amazon HD.


Would you please share with us,
Using the Apple Music app, Hi Res files 24/192 > iPhone USB out > USB in ( Douk U2 ) Optical/Coax out, you are still able to achieve 24/192? 

The second question also important, the volume could be adjusted using the iPhone (Apple Music app) or it's fixed?
Thank you,


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BitPerfect_ said:


> Would you please share with us,
> Using the Apple Music app, Hi Res files 24/192 > iPhone USB out > USB in ( Douk U2 ) Optical/Coax out, you are still able to achieve 24/192?
> 
> The second question also important, the volume could be adjusted using the iPhone (Apple Music app) or it's fixed?
> Thank you,


Unfortunately, nearly all of my testing was done using the Amazon HD app since Apple Music did not support lossless at the time. I have done "some" testing since lossless support was added using iPhone 12 (my teenage son) but it's been quite limited simply due to time and complexity. So here goes...

"Using Apple Music app..."

As of June/July 2021 Apple Music has added lossless audio:








Apple Music announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio


The next generation of sound on Apple Music is coming to subscribers June 2021 at no additional cost.



www.apple.com





Huge caveat there - Apple doesn't say that ALL songs will be 24 bit, just lossless CD QUALITY 16/44.1 -and- it's depending on your provider and model of iPhone... so you may or may not be able to do lossless. If you do have iPhone 12 or better AND you have the ability to download 24/192 files to the phone (or stream) in WAV format (your own library) then the newest version of Apple Music will indeed support 24/192 via USB to an external DAC (limited by internal storage space.)

NATIVE support from iPhone 7 on tops out at 24/48 on ALAC Codec from Apple Music. 

Second question: No.

No volume control - iPhone becomes a source only at this point.
... and there's no easy way to pass controls from say steering wheel oem buttons back to the phone as attempts to have BT connected and hardwired streaming (IME) always became flaky at some point. YMMV

-Fixed output
-Must use touchscreen on phone for track control
-No album art or information on HU
-No BT phone call unless you run a Helix (or any other DSP with programmable source switching) with automatic source switching and the correct hierarchy to switch between iPhone and HU for source

Testing done with Jeep Uconnect BT interface that allows for separate selection of phone/audio transfer over BT connection. 

Hope this helps. 

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## BitPerfect_ (Oct 16, 2021)

Thank you very much, it's pretty clear now.
With fixed output there is no sense. Also I didn't know that not all the iPhones deliver Apple Music in the same way (max 24/192).

I am interested into a solution for the home environment and I just landed here looking for U2 details reading your posts thinking that it's the right solution.

I'll wait until the next Apple AirPlay upgrade and see how it goes (if there will be any) or Spotify Hifi maybe connect(?).
We will see. All the best,


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## Selkec (Nov 18, 2018)

daloudin said:


> Yes, currently using the Douk Audio U2 but it works the same with the D10S in place of the U2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


do you use an apple camera kit adapter that hangs off the iPhone with this usb hub setup?
I tried this powered hub with the same laptop charger in my car and it did not work.
I tried it with the camera kit adapter and without it and the iPhone would not send audio and charge at the same time. 

with the camera kit adapter connected should have I used both lightening port and the USB port connected to the hub? I didn’t see two cables connected in your pic going to the iPhone.
In my setup I had the same laptop charger going into the charge port. Then I had a 2tb ssd in one 
Topping dac and phone


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

daloudin said:


> Yes, the phone recognizes my jump drives and the songs show up in my library on UAPP.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


That isn’t with an iPhone as this post is about… uapp is an android app so I can assume your not sending digital audio from the Apple device to the topping d10 or d10s in your example which people have took your description to mean

does uapp recognise music on the iPhone and allow you to play it if you put the iPhone in storage mode? As that’s the only thing I can see the iPhone being useful for or just to charge the iPhone from the hubs power


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

Selkec said:


> do you use an apple camera kit adapter that hangs off the iPhone with this usb hub setup?
> I tried this powered hub with the same laptop charger in my car and it did not work.
> I tried it with the camera kit adapter and without it and the iPhone would not send audio and charge at the same time.
> 
> ...


No - the picture is of charging the iPhone while using Android to play music - using the USB to lightning only for charging. Sorry for the confusion. 

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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

dumdum said:


> That isn’t with an iPhone as this post is about… uapp is an android app so I can assume your not sending digital audio from the Apple device to the topping d10 or d10s in your example which people have took your description to mean
> 
> does uapp recognise music on the iPhone and allow you to play it if you put the iPhone in storage mode? As that’s the only thing I can see the iPhone being useful for or just to charge the iPhone from the hubs power


Correct and my apologies to everyone - I've gone back and forth trying to decide whether to edit or simply reply and I'm hoping that by doing this reply its helpful in the future. 

To use the iPhone as the audio source then the iPhone and Android connections to the Hub have to be swapped. 

The picture is only an example of having it all connected and the top left USB is charging only. No data transfer was attempted or tested. 

Sorry for the confusion. 

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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

daloudin said:


> Correct and my apologies to everyone - I've gone back and forth trying to decide whether to edit or simply reply and I'm hoping that by doing this reply its helpful in the future.
> 
> To use the iPhone as the audio source then the iPhone and Android connections to the Hub have to be swapped.
> 
> ...


It’s all good mate, I’d rather it get shared and corrected than not get posted at all, I have no issue with that 👍🏼


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## vectrasoundz (Jan 19, 2020)

daloudin said:


> Yes, currently using the Douk Audio U2 but it works the same with the D10S in place of the U2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What car charger do you use?


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

It's a Dell Auto/Air 90W laptop charger. 

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## vectrasoundz (Jan 19, 2020)

daloudin said:


> It's a Dell Auto/Air 90W laptop charger.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Ok go you have a photo or model number? I am only seeing 110v products. My current car charger isn't up to the task.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

vectrasoundz said:


> Ok go you have a photo or model number? I am only seeing 110v products. My current car charger isn't up to the task.


Unfortunately they don't make it anymore - they have numerous different ones now but none of them supply more than 20W at 5VDC on USB-C.

Look for something like this: Amazon.com: GutReise Universal 12V Car Charger(Max 10A) + 5V DC Power Cable,with 11 Connectors for DVD Player,Dash Camera,GPS,Bluetooth Speakers,Shaver Fans : Electronics

Almost all car power adapters are limited to about 65W to keep from blowing the fuse in modern cars.


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## vectrasoundz (Jan 19, 2020)

Amazon.com: WOTOBEUS 83W USB C Car Charger Type C Super Fast Charging PD 65W PPS 45W QC 18W Cigarette Lighter Adapter for iPhone 13 12 11 Pro Max Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra Note 20 10Plus iPad MacBook Laptop Pixel : Cell Phones & Accessories 

Just ordered that charger and the same hub you have, will give the results when they arrive.


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## Selkec (Nov 18, 2018)

This one does 90w I had it before I sent it all back. 
USB-C Laptop CAR Charger Power Adapter: Lenovo Yoga Thinkpad MacBook Pro Air Retina Razer Blade Stealth Chromebook Pixel Acer Swift Samsung Asus Dell Microsoft Universal Compatibility USB C PD3 Amazon.com: USB-C Laptop CAR Charger Power Adapter: Lenovo Yoga Thinkpad MacBook Pro Air Retina Razer Blade Stealth Chromebook Pixel Acer Swift Samsung Asus Dell Microsoft Universal Compatibility USB C PD3 : Electronics


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## isot (Aug 21, 2020)

I have iPhone6s / Topping D10s / Optical to DSP Amplifier combination
First I had aftermarket CCK3 adapter (powered by a simple lighter), it generally did not work (rarely worked)
Then, I added that French cable for powering the D10s in the trunk, now the sound is fine, working
But my phone is still not being charged

I am trying to figure out what is wrong while everyone's only CCK3 setup charges the phone, but mine is not charged although I have 2 different power suppliers (French cable for topping D10s, CCK3 for the phone)

Is it because my CCK3 adapter is aftermarket? or my cigarette lighter charger adapter thing is not sufficient?

FYI, so called the French cable which I added additionally to CCK3 adapter :


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

isot said:


> I have iPhone6s / Topping D10s / Optical to DSP Amplifier combination
> First I had aftermarket CCK3 adapter (powered by a simple lighter), it generally did not work (rarely worked)
> Then, I added that French cable for powering the D10s in the trunk, now the sound is fine, working
> But my phone is still not being charged
> ...


Unplug the topping does it charge then? I use an apple cck on my iPhone XS Max it's been super reliable after I stopped using the helix hec 


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## isot (Aug 21, 2020)

Redliner99 said:


> Unplug the topping does it charge then? I use an apple cck on my iPhone XS Max it's been super reliable after I stopped using the helix hec
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is actually what I should try
When I unplug the topping, It actually charges but I think not really increases the battery charge
It sometimes happen, when the Topping does not work and phone charges (in the same way, not proper charging)
Generally when the Topping works and I play, there is no charge sign at all

I think I need to compare the charge based on a time frame with the Car's default USB port (which is connected to headunit)

Will try that


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

isot said:


> This is actually what I should try
> When I unplug the topping, It actually charges but I think not really increases the battery charge
> It sometimes happen, when the Topping does not work and phone charges (in the same way, not proper charging)
> Generally when the Topping works and I play, there is no charge sign at all
> ...


It will hold your battery steady but it won't charge the battery. Also some people have noted it won't charge under 50% battery level. Try a legit Apple cck. There is one version on amazon people have good luck with too but I can't remember the name 


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

Just get an apple cck3, they work with the supplemental power supply (I cut up a second usb lead to make a spliced in power supply for the topping rather than buy the French lead and putting more junctions in the pathway)


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## Cutaway (May 5, 2020)

I had issues until i switched over to the official Apple CCK3, after doing so my phone charges just fine and signal to the D10s is as reliable as running water


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## isot (Aug 21, 2020)

Dears,
Do you use official apple lightning cable for powering the official apple cck3 adapter?
Powering cable usb end is connected to a lighter adapter, do i need a specific one for this as newer apple phones adapter is 20w


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

isot said:


> Dears,
> Do you use official apple lightning cable for powering the official apple cck3 adapter?
> Powering cable usb end is connected to a lighter adapter, do i need a specific one for this as newer apple phones adapter is 20w


No I use a Anker cable plugged into this which Is hard wired. USBbuddy, Portable Powerpole (12V) to USB (5V) Converter and Device Charger


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

A technical drawing of how I run extra power to a topping d10s since the later apple cck3 didn’t supply enough power to run the device direct


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## MrHarris (Feb 3, 2011)

The anker powerline ii/iii works as reliable as apples


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