# JL vs Kicker subs



## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

ok i know they are completely different! JL is by far better. but what im wondering is how loud the JL is compared to kicker. im doing a SQ build but just trying to get an idea on how loud the JL sub will be before i buy it.

past i had 2 kicker CVR's in kickers ported box. running JL 300/2 amp. they were stupid loud!

looking at JL's 10w6v2 in JL,s stealth box. will prob run 500 watts, but the box is sealed. 

i know the JL has WAY better SQ, but how loud is it?


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## Abaddon (Aug 28, 2007)

Since we're being completely subjective as to what you consider "loud" to be... sure.. my 10w6v2 can get pretty damn loud... I don't run it that way.. but I've played with it and it was pretty darn loud.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

You are doing an "sq" build. You know the JL has much better sq and yet your main question is how loud they are compared to kickers? 

Maybe need to be honest with yourself about wanting to go SQ. 

FWIW, the JL's will get plenty "loud". What sure what you quantify as loud. However, they will not be as loud as the kicker subs in a poorly tuned ported box (assuming the box wasn't tuned for SQ). They will however play all the frequencies the kickers were missing and won't over-exaggerate a very narrow frequency band (mainly due to the enclosure and some due to the Kicker subs), and do so at a reasonable level of "loudness". If you are truly ready for SQL, then go for the JL's....if debees is most important, stay with the Kickers.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

Two CVR's vs one W6 yeah the CVR's will get louder. Simply put you're talking about displacement, CVR's have about 2 x 12mm Xmax vs 1 x 17mm Xmax. The CVR's also have the advantage of having more cone area which increases efficiency not to mention being ported.

So for sheer output 2 10's ported definitely beats 1 10 sealed. If you want SQ then JL definitely and for sealed you'll need power. You say 500 but it had better be a real 500 watts because to get good output with sealed you need power and lots of it.

One thing's for sure sealed you'll want the most efficient subwoofer possible. JL is not that subwoofer. Instead of the W6 I'd go for the Image Dynamics IDQ 12. That subwoofer is known to be great SQ-wise, costs less than the W6, handles more power and the same Xmax.

Heck for only a little more than the price of a W6 you could get the real SQ and output beast IDMax 12 great SQ and can handle tons of power in case you upgrade amps later and has great sensitivity to make the most out of your 500 watts. Also it can be reconed if you blow it up.


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

ok i posted that wrong, i want the SQ sub. i was just curious as to how loud it will be compared to my past set up. im out of my spl phase. but i didnt know how different it would be going from 2 subs to 1 and ported to sealed. i am not trying to make the W6 into a spl sub. i was jw how it sounds compared to those subs, as thats all iv ever heard, besides the notorious Xplod! hahaha


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Any idea what your Kicker subs were tuned at? 

What vehicle is this in?

The drop in output from dual 10's ported to a single 10" should be pretty significant regardless of tuning frequency.


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

Fish i have no idea what they were tuned at. i bought them at a local sound shop. pre installed in kickers box.
buut they were way to loud, vehicle was honda civic coupe 
(99-00 year) 
the current vehicle is a civc sedan 07. 

im looking at a JLw6v2 and JL's custom stealth box for my car for 450$ that combo is 800 brand new. im not trying to lose my trunk like i did with those kickers.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

Kicker's prefab boxes are tuned pretty damn high. From what I could hear in the store it was about 50 hz or so. At that frequency it's pretty much going to be loud like a nightclub subwoofer and sound just about as bad.

With $800 you can get a lot of stuff. Easily the IDMax, small sealed box AND a bigger than 500 watt amp and still come in less than $800.


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

So basically that sub set up was garbage? And I'm getting the JL stuff for 450. Not 800. It's 800 new


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

The Stealthbox is one option (kinda pricey), another is considering going IB with a pair of 15's if you want your trunk back. That's what I did in my '03 Civic.


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

I won't be going IB, I don't really like that sound.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

^^^Have you ever heard IB?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

JSM-FA5 said:


> I won't be going IB, I don't really like that sound.


lol, he wants an SQ system, wants a sealed box, but doesnt like IB. 

stick with your kickers


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

JSM-FA5 said:


> I won't be going IB, I don't really like that sound.


What sound are you referring to?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

This is going to be fun.

Fish- It's that loose, uncontrolled sloppy sound due to the lack of control of the airspring. :laugh:


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

comedy and tragedy at the same time.


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> This is going to be fun.
> 
> Fish- It's that loose, uncontrolled sloppy sound due to the lack of control of the airspring. :laugh:


Exactly! I guess it's going to boil down to ported box vs sealed. Do ported boxes work well for SQ?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

JSM-FA5 said:


> Exactly! I guess it's going to boil down to ported box vs sealed. Do ported boxes work well for SQ?


absolutely! they do take some planning and good design work, though. You have to biuld them exactly right too, but they can sound just as good, if not better, than sealed IMHO.

they take up alot more space than sealed too.


(you do realize he was being sarcastic?)


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

BuickGN said:


> This is going to be fun.
> 
> Fish- It's that loose, uncontrolled sloppy sound due to the lack of control of the airspring. :laugh:


Yep, you nailed it! lol

To the OP, have you heard an IB setup before? 

If you are leaning towards a vented design I recommend you visit the PWK Designs website. He's designed a few enclosures for me & they've all done well as to how I gave the description on the performance I was going for.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

JSM-FA5 said:


> Exactly! I guess it's going to boil down to ported box vs sealed. Do ported boxes work well for SQ?


Now I actually feel bad. I was being sarcastic. Everyone who hasn't heard IB thinks sloppy. In fact, bass is just as "quick" "tight", etc as a sealed box, many times it sounds better than a sealed box. The air spring actually reduces cone control. No air spring gives better cone control or damping. It seems backwards at first but the spring does reduce control. 

If I didn't care about space I would probably be running a ported enclosure. Right now space is important so I'm running a pair of 15s (its a sound quality system) IB with tons of trunk space left.

I'm not trying to be mean with the earlier comment, just having a little fun.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I would do the JLs in a low tuned ported box for the best of all worlds and so you're not too disappointed in the output and the sound quality will be there assuming a good enclosure. What about a single 12" or 13.5" W6 or W7 infinite baffle? You can usually find them for about what you're paying for the 10"+ enclosure and they sound very, very nice IB. They left enough of an impression on me that if I don't sell all of my audio gear, I'm likely going to a pair of 13W7s IB for sound quality that will get loud when you want it to.

I owned my 12W6s for about 7 years and had them sealed, large sealed, ported, and IB and I prefer IB for sound quality, at least in my car. I liked the small sealed the least for what its worth.


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

i have heard IB once, it was in my freinds accord and it sounded like garbage. i didnt catch the sarcasm haha. his time alignment was off and it all sounded muddy. butthey sounded fine in his ported box. just LOUD! if i can properly do IB and it sounds good then id be all for it! but my one experience sounded like crap


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Depends on the subs too. Some don't work as well as others.

Sent from my motorola electrify using digital farts


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

JSM-FA5 said:


> i have heard IB once, it was in my freinds accord and it sounded like garbage. i didnt catch the sarcasm haha. his time alignment was off and it all sounded muddy. butthey sounded fine in his ported box. just LOUD! if i can properly do IB and it sounds good then id be all for it! but my one experience sounded like crap


A driver that sounds good in a ported box very well may sound boomy (loose) IB


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

Ok well what do you guys reccomend for an IB set up? My JL w6 got sold so that one is out now. I can still get it bran new but it will be more expensive.


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## Brian Steele (Jun 1, 2007)

I tried IB once. My second car audio install, in fact. Sounded great. The catch? I needed to keep at least one door open for it to sound great. Otherwise it sounded like crap. As I obviously couldn't drive the car with its doors open, I switched to a vented alignment instead.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

The 12W6 and W7 sound extremely nice IB. The AE IB15s are great. The Incriminator Flatline, many FI subs, Morel Ultimo, Image Dynamics IDQ and IDMax, just about any sub that works well sealed will work well IB. Most of us stuff as many of the biggest subs as we can fit since there's no enclosure to take up space. 

What's your budget? A single 13W6 would be very nice in this setup. It will sound very snappy and tight and pretty much all of the good adjectives lol.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

When doing IB most people try to get the most cone area possible across their baffle to gain more output. In an 8th gen Civic you can fit a pair of 15's. 

Acoustic Elegance make 2 different lines specifically designed for IB use in trunks. I've heard the Flatlyne series from Incriminator Audio sound really good too.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

JSM-FA5 said:


> Fish i have no idea what they were tuned at. i bought them at a local sound shop. pre installed in kickers box.
> buut they were way to loud, vehicle was honda civic coupe
> (99-00 year)


The reason those kickers were too loud was two fold. First, the 96-00 civic coupe had a peak transfer function in the 50 to 60 Hz range. Now factor the fact that the kicker pre-fab enclosures are tuned insanely high. You should have had headache producing bass between 50 and 60 Hz with relative ease.

As for a single, sealed 10 in an 07 Civic... I'd highly recommend a sealed 12 or 15 over a 10 if you are looking for sub bass response. I haven't measured a newer Civic, but I'm guessing their peak transfer frequency is in the low 50 Hz range and the F3 response of the Stealthbox is probably in the low to mid 50 Hz range.

Lastly, I heard a 06 Civic Si Coupe with a 12" Alpine Type X sub sealed and direct cabin fired. It was powered with a Memphis 1,500 watt amplifier wired to 2 ohms. That was pretty dang impressive for a sealed 12 in a .8 cubic foot net (1 cubic foot gross) enclosure!


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

A driver I would seriously consider for a IB aplication is the Dayton DVC 15. It has a fairly low Qts , dual voice coils, and is fairly efficient which opens up some possibilities to adjust the way it sounds to suit your own personal taste.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

jp88 said:


> A driver I would seriously consider for a IB aplication is the Dayton DVC 15. It has a fairly low Qts , dual voice coils, and is fairly efficient which opens up some possibilities to adjust the way it sounds to suit your own personal taste.


I'm just curious how efficiency correlates with adjusting the way a driver sounds? It certainly means less power required, which ib does already by itself, but not seeing what adjustments are available based on efficiency.


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

Niebur3 said:


> I'm just curious how efficiency correlates with adjusting the way a driver sounds? It certainly means less power required, which ib does already by itself, but not seeing what adjustments are available based on efficiency.


Decent efficiency is needed when using resistively damped operation on a dual voice coil driver to raise the system Q as RDO drops efficiency by 3db


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

jp88 said:


> Decent efficiency is needed when using resistively damped operation on a dual voice coil driver to raise the system Q as RDO drops efficiency by 3db


Why would he need to short a voice coil to run IB? RDO will raise the Q, but that is not necessary in most cases (at least in all the IB installs I have done) if you use a sub suited for IB in the first place. High efficiency I guess would be needed as the power handling would drop a ton (due to the RDO and the IB), but this isn't exactly tuning. Buy the proper sub (single vc or dual vc) for IB and have fun. There are several great options, from cheap to very expensive.


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

Niebur3 said:


> Why would he need to short a voice coil to run IB? RDO will raise the Q, but that is not necessary in most cases (at least in all the IB installs I have done) if you use a sub suited for IB in the first place. High efficiency I guess would be needed as the power handling would drop a ton (due to the RDO and the IB), but this isn't exactly tuning. Buy the proper sub (single vc or dual vc) for IB and have fun. There are several great options, from cheap to very expensive.


I never said you needed to run a RDO I mereley pointed out that it fit the requirements to do so which opens up more options for tuning.
This Driver does seem to be appropriate for IB and a pretty decent driver at a decent price point


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

I would expect a w6 of any generation to be louder than a CVR of any generation on any reasonable power level...and SQ to stomp the kicker


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

D-Bass said:


> I would expect a w6 of any generation to be louder than a CVR of any generation on any reasonable power level...and SQ to stomp the kicker


Yeah, if in the same type of enclosure optimized the exact same way. But if you are comparing ported to sealed, especially a bad ported that is tuned for 50Hz and you play music that emphasizes that frequency, then the ported (no matter what kind of sub) will be louder. Not better by any means, but louder. Remember, install is 1/2 (or more) of the battle. (now I want to yell GI Joe or something)


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## D-Bass (Apr 27, 2012)

Oh, I'm pretty familiar with making enclosures tuned for peak output at specific frequencies, but this isn't the forum that i expect someone looking for that, especially when JL and Kicker are being discussed.


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

Well this I allot of info haha. Is IB difficult to do? Because I don't have allot of free time at the moment. And I'm new to SQ. so unless Q means quality (Aldo have no idea what RDO is) them I have no IDE.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

D-Bass said:


> Oh, I'm pretty familiar with making enclosures tuned for peak output at specific frequencies, but this isn't the forum that i expect someone looking for that, especially when JL and Kicker are being discussed.


My point is that you can't just make a blanket statement that JL's should be louder than Kickers.....too many variables. Especially when the OP had a poorly tuned ported box vs now looking at sealed or IB.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Car IB is usually cutting a wood baffle for the subs that mounts behind the rear seats and mostly seals off the trunk to the cabin. The seal doesn't have to be perfect, but it should be reasonably good. The trunk does not have to be sealed from the outside world and in fact I've vented my trunk to the outside. Your main goal is to separate the rear wave from the front wave and physically mount the subs. It's usually an easy job. 

There are some variations with some people putting them in the rear deck or using a manifold to get the sound into the cabin. Some cars are easier than others. The easiest I ever did was a co-worker's 5 series older BMW. The trunk was already very well sealed from the cabin and it had a metal divider behind the rear seats. I literally just cut the appropriate sized hole in the sheet metal, mounted a single piece of MDF with the same size hole to the back side of the sheet metal for support and to possibly help damp vibrations and stuck a W7 in there. It was a half day job and I'm very slow. I'm sure a pro could have done it in around an hour. Some cars aren't so IB friendly. 

Take a good look at your trunk with the carpet removed. Look at the contours in the area behind the rear seat and judge how hard it would be to cut the baffle to that approximate shape. The baffle doesn't have to be perfect, you can seal it up with other products after it's installed. Look at how many holes you will have to seal up, especially in the rear deck. If there's a large gap from where the you will have to mount the baffle to the back of the rear seats you can invert the subs with the magnets facing the rear seats to save room.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

JSM-FA5 said:


> Well this I allot of info haha. Is IB difficult to do? Because I don't have allot of free time at the moment. And I'm new to SQ. so unless Q means quality (Aldo have no idea what RDO is) them I have no IDE.


No, it's not. Make a baffle board the size of the opening between the back seat and trunk. Mount the board. Seal the edges well (using expanding foam and/or butyl/aluminum sound deadening). Seal the package shelf with butyl/aluminum sound deadening and any other spaces you can see between the cabin and trunk. Mount the sub in the baffle and enjoy!


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

Well I don want to start another thread. I still haven't ordered my sub. I'm pretty set on the W6v2. But now I'm trying to decide how much power to run. I know it's relative but it's the only way I know how to.

The cvrs mentioned earlier were powered by a JL 320/2.

With that being said the w6 will be in a 1.5 cubic foot box tuned at (local shops recommendation was 40 hz) the Kickers on that amp were stupid loud to me. It was fun when showing off with friends. But for everyday I had my sub on the radio as low as it would go. 

If I used a JL 500/1 on this next set up what would the comparison be?
I realize this is extremely relative but it's the only way I know to base something off of


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## JSM-FA5 (Nov 18, 2012)

bump.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

500 watts
1.5 cu. ft. box tuned to low 30's
it will sound good

end thread


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

id like to piggy back on this thread as i have 2 10W6v2 that i am considering enclosures for. i have been primarily considering sealed becasue of simplicity of build. six sides, one of which has the holes for the subs. (separate chambers btw) as im reading this thread its mentioned that thw W6 subs do well in IB? 

will IB work well with my setup?
I will have the subs running off a JL HD750/1 and its in a 2008 VW Jetta. 
if i decide on IB will/should the subs be mounted on the rear deck (braced i would assume) firing upward? or will/should they be mounted on a baffle against rear seats?


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