# High(er) end RCAs - what are the options?



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I currently have Stinger 8000 rcas, and I am getting some alt whine because the ends aren't shielded and my amp rack is all aluminum, with the power wires touching, etc.




























See how the ends aren't shielded ^^^


What's the best snake oil out there?!?! Lol 

Seriously, I do need some well shielded rcas and looks matter, too. They need to be really short 1.5' - 2' max.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

Im in for this as well even though i always use sundown audio rcas. And never had an issue


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## Ifixtheinternet (Jan 29, 2016)

Came across an article mentioning these to eliminate hum, they are double shielded.
But 3 foot is the shortest.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...e_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=mfconvert-20&th=1

I like these personally.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5346

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

How about the Esoteric E7 available at closeout prices from StereoDirect on eBay--

Mind you, these are almost 3/4" thick on the cable and NOT very flexible, though you can loop them--


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

That being said, would grounding the amp rack help??


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

seafish said:


> How about the Esoteric E7 available at closeout prices from StereoDirect on eBay--
> 
> Mind you, these are almost 3/4" thick on the cable and NOT very flexible, though you can loop them--


Holy smokes those are beautiful... But I'm afraid they would need to be more flexible. I am fairly certain those would withstand a nuclear blast!!

They have to make a 90 degree into the rack and then immediately make a 180 degree into the dsp, with little room to curl up.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

DavidRam said:


> Holy smokes those are beautiful... But I'm afraid they would need to be more flexible.
> 
> They have to make a 90 degree into the rack and then immediately make a 180 degree into the dsp, with little room to curl up.


What length rca do you need. I actuslly have a brand new 3 foot sundown 2ch set i could send to you to try if you want

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ToNasty said:


> What length rca do you need. I actuslly have a brand new 3 foot sundown 2ch set i could send to you to try if you want
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Very cool of you, bro... I need a max of 2'. The Stingers I have now are 3' and they are too long.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

DavidRam said:


> Very cool of you, bro... I need a max of 2'. The Stingers I have now are 3' and they are too long.


Damn worth a shot

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Is the consensus that RCA alone can fix the hum?
Personally I would be looking at grounding the rack first.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Are is another pic of the E7 coiled as tight as it will go...makes a 4" OD loop held with a zip tie.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

You an also buy them to see if they work and if not use em on that awesome home stereo unit you have!!! They are a great deal at $25 each for 1m long of this quality!!!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

seafish said:


> That being said, would grounding the amp rack help??


Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that...


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Holmz said:


> Is the consensus that RCA alone can fix the hum?
> Personally I would be looking at grounding the rack first.


I am 100% sure it's the RCAs... Specifically the last few inches are NOT shielded on the Stinger 8000s and that is where the noise is coming from. I can move them and the whine goes away, but when I drive a little bit and the Jeep bounces them around, they get close to the rack again and the whine is back. 

The noise is so faint it's impossible to hear while listening to music, but I can here it every so slightly if I drive with the music off. Since I am going through a zero-compromise phase with my audio, I want to fix this issue as well.

Edit: I want to spend the money now and get great RCAs that will not make noise. I would also prefer they come techflexed from the factory so I don't have to mess around with that either.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that...


Certainly worth a try with some extra wire laying around...be sure to take it back to the same ground point as the amps.

Try one point first, though if EMF is the issue, you might need to attach a ground to SEVERAL different points on the rack, kinda like a faraday cage. Mind you, I am ONLY guessing here, but if a test ground works to reduce the whine, then a thick braided copper or aluminum cable sure would also LOOK NICE carefully looped around and connected to the top of your amp rack and might eliminate more of the whine!!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

seafish said:


> Certainly worth a try with some extra wire laying around...be sure to take it back to the same ground point as the amps.
> 
> Try one point first, though if EMF is the issue, you might need to attach a ground to SEVERAL different points on the rack, kinda like a faraday cage. Mind you, I am ONLY guessing here, but if a test ground works to reduce the whine, then a thick braided copper or aluminum cable sure would also LOOK NICE carefully looped around and connected to the top of your amp rack and might eliminate more of the whine!!


I'll try that out... 

Any love for the AudioQuest RCAs??
https://www.amazon.com/AUDIOQUEST-G...qid=1547938482&sr=8-8&keywords=audioquest+rca


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## mattkim1337 (Jan 31, 2018)

Bluejeans LC-1 are my favorites, but they are bulky and stiff. Quality is there though. 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

What about these?
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...ity-great-noise-rejection.html#/topics/158676


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

subbing...I currently run the Sundowns and they're nice. I've also run Rockford twisteds, and they're nice and flexible. Not sure about shielding though.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

mattkim1337 said:


> Bluejeans LC-1 are my favorites, but they are bulky and stiff. Quality is there though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


i have had great luck with the Blue Jean miniature cables too...and i also use the LC-1 in my home theater as a sub cable.

so i would look there...they will custom make them to whatever length you need.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

DavidRam said:


> What's the best snake oil out there?!?! Lol


You definitely need speaker wire stands to move the wires above the interference. Cause 2-inches will make all the difference.

https://www.musicdirect.com/best-budget-tweaks-under-99/cable-elevators-cable-supports


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

LOL!

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, I'll check em out!

Look at these beauties from Germany:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dynavox-Bl...ereo-RCA-Cinchkabel-0-6-m-207479/183010658166


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

seafish said:


> You an also buy them to see if they work and if not use em on that awesome home stereo unit you have!!! They are a great deal at $25 each for 1m long of this quality!!!


I’m only seeing 3 meters, where are you seeing 1 meter?


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

GreatLaBroski said:


> seafish said:
> 
> 
> > You an also buy them to see if they work and if not use em on that awesome home stereo unit you have!!! They are a great deal at $25 each for 1m long of this quality!!!
> ...


So sorry mine are the 1 m but I bought them over a year ago. I have NEVER seen the e7 in 3m ... I guess I had a senior moment or something. That being said I have bought from them numerous times and CS has always bengood, maybe contact them and see if they have any not yet listed


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> I'll try that out...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A shop here in Denver swears by audioquest stuff. I used their tower rca in my car way better "feeling" quality than the stinger 6000 I had. The evergreens are the same as tower but different color and the golden gates are a step up from there. 


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## FlyingEagle (Sep 22, 2017)

Ifixtheinternet said:


> Came across an article mentioning these to eliminate hum, they are double shielded.
> But 3 foot is the shortest.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...e_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=mfconvert-20&th=1
> ...


^^^^^
Lots of reviews of people having only one cable work at initial install or after a short bit while in use. I have never seen a bad review of the monoprice for what they are supposed to do.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Since no one mentioned it yet somehow, Blue Jeans Cable is well regarded in the audiophile community: https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm


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## brewmastr (Jul 3, 2015)

I got my cables from Westco here on diyma. He makes very high quality custom length RCA cables. Extremely flexible and made with Canare microphone cable. https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...bles-high-fidelity-great-noise-rejection.html


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

DavidRam said:


> I am 100% sure it's the RCAs... Specifically the last few inches are NOT shielded on the Stinger 8000s and that is where the noise is coming from. I can move them and the whine goes away, but when I drive a little bit and the Jeep bounces them around, they get close to the rack again and the whine is back.
> ...


Maybe you want some of that black insulation that goes around heating and cooling pipes and put that around the last few inches of the RCA.

Could that make them less able to wander towards the rack?


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## Omicron (Jul 15, 2018)

Redliner99 said:


> A shop here in Denver swears by audioquest stuff. I used their tower rca in my car way better "feeling" quality than the stinger 6000 I had. The evergreens are the same as tower but different color and the golden gates are a step up from there.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Audioquest are nice, but can get pricey. I had their Cinnamon ones for DAP connection and they worked well. I would guess their RCA are wellbuilt.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

GreatLaBroski said:


> Since no one mentioned it yet somehow, Blue Jeans Cable is well regarded in the audiophile community: https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm


Matkim and i both spoke about Blue Jeans Cable on the first page.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

I was going to recommend stinger 6000, but I see you already have stinger 8000 

Personally, I think the next cable I buy will be “blue jeans cables” brand (as I see others have recommended).

Audioquest (cinnamon) is another highly regarded brand (as I see other have recommended) but their prices are borderline ridiculous.

I don’t know your exact setup, but a toslink would eliminate any potential of a grounding loop. At some point I’m going to run one between my pac AmpPro and minidsp 8x12 (which I haven’t purchased yet  )


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## CoLd_FuSiOn (Jun 25, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> I currently have Stinger 8000 rcas, and I am getting some alt whine because the ends aren't shielded and my amp rack is all aluminum, with the power wires touching, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You already have an excellent pair of RCAs, I have been personally using these since a few years now without any issues what so ever. I think you should try and look into your install to find the culprit as I don't believe an RCA change would solve your problem. 

https://www.termpro.com/asp/pubs.asp?id=121


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

CoLd_FuSiOn said:


> You already have an excellent pair of RCAs, I have been personally using these since a few years now without any issues what so ever. I think you should try and look into your install to find the culprit as I don't believe an RCA change would solve your problem.
> 
> https://www.termpro.com/asp/pubs.asp?id=121


^^

Excellent link. Thanks!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

By no means am I an expert at this stuff, but my guess is that the noise is caused by my amp rack (which I am not going to change). See the picture - the red circles are 4 gauge power wires that are resting on the aluminum rack, the purple are the non-shielded ends of the rcas...










The problem with the Stinger 8000 for my application is, they are not shielded at the last few inches (see red circle below) and these few inches end up resting on the amp rack. To quiet the alt wine, I have to pull the non-shield part up and out of the amp rack (where the non-shielded part is a couple inches away from the rack).


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Oh, and sadly, aesthetics is as important to me as the alt whine being gone! :blush:


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> By no means am I an expert at this stuff, but my guess is that the noise is caused by my amp rack (which I am not going to change). See the picture - the red circles are 4 gauge power wires that are resting on the aluminum rack, the purple are the non-shielded ends of the rcas...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm probably wrong, but isn't the shielding inside the jacket, not between the jacket and the techflex? Shielding is tied to the conductor and the connector.


The tech flex on the rest of the cable is just for looks and for the physical protection of the cable.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Like I said, this is the solution to all of your audio interference problems. Lol! Now with a picture since people likely didn’t visit the URL. This stuff is just too good to make up. I wish I could be so unscrupulous as to sell these types of “solutions” but alas I have a conscious.

Oh, and they also match your color scheme perfectly!


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

DR,

Have you tried the grounding the rack yet??

ALSO, you could buy or make rubber grommets (wire pass thoughs) that will fit into the rack holes and the pass the power wires, and even the RCAs if you want, THROUGH the grommets to better isolate them from the aluminum. 

How do I know that?? I used rubber grommets ion the first single amp perforated aluminum shelf that I mounted under the seat in my truck which is what gave me the idea of using perforated aluminum for an amp mounting rack in the first place.

I TOTALLY understand the DRIVING NEED to blend form and aesthetics with function!!

That being said, there is really no reason you couldn't take small rubber bushings/grommets and make your own unobtrusive cable standoffs to support the RCAs off the rack for the last few inches. Hell, you are extremely handy with tools....get some black HDPE and go to town on it with some hole saws and files, right??


Just my .02


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Here is an example of what I am talking about...obviously I dolt know the exact size you need.

https://www.grainger.com/product/40...s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!50916752037!!!s!82166695317!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

seafish said:


> DR,
> 
> Have you tried the grounding the rack yet??
> 
> ...


I haven't done anything yet... I ordered a Helix DSP Pro Mk2 and Director, so I will be tearing into the amp rack when that comes in. The MiniDSP is going to retire and with the new dsp will come the new RCAs. 

I thought of the grommet idea and tried it on the RCAs already a couple months ago... It made a little difference, but didn't complete silence it.  I even grommet-ed the power and ground cables at the same time, and that didn't help much. The grommets don't look that great either... 

The only thing that silences the problem is moving the RCAs. I am pretty sure I could re-wrap the RCAs with a homemade shield, but I'm also pretty sure I won't like the looks of that. Lol


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> I'm probably wrong, but isn't the shielding inside the jacket, not between the jacket and the techflex? Shielding is tied to the conductor and the connector.
> 
> 
> The tech flex on the rest of the cable is just for looks and for the physical protection of the cable.


The shielding is inside the jacket for sure... There is no shielding or additional insulation in that area pictured above, it's only insulated wire and a sleeve that is the equivalent of thin heat shrink tubing.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

miniSQ said:


> Matkim and i both spoke about Blue Jeans Cable on the first page.


Oh, NVM in that case.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Th Blue Jeans ones definitely get good reviews... But I don't think they are nice looking. 
They have that plastic thing that looks ugly and seems unnecessary. Are there options that I am missing?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

DavidRam said:


> I haven't done anything yet... I ordered a Helix DSP Pro Mk2 and Director, so I will be tearing into the amp rack when that comes in. The MiniDSP is going to retire and with the new dsp will come the new RCAs.
> ...


Maybe take a jumper cable and when the noise if there, then ground the rack to the battery?
Tearing everything apart is not a great aid to fixing one thing that you know.

If anything is learned, there is a chance it could carry over to the new DSP.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

You could always ask Blue Jeans what they could do in terms of a nicer looking RCA since most of their customers are home audio where the cables aren’t normally seen. And of course you could also Techflex them to match your install.

But the Stinger 8000 are supposed to be quality cables, which means another good RCA isn’t going to fix your problem. You could get some shielded RCAs with a shielded connector on one or both ends. If you only connect one end of the shielding, you open up the RCA to more RF interference as you’re now making an antenna. However, often the RF interference is less of an issue than the system noise you’re getting now.

Which brings me back to Blue Jean Cable. They have access and use many quality cables from Belden to Canare, etc. so you may want to contact them with your issue and see what they recommend and give that a shot. And I’d recommend getting the shielding connectors on each end to try connecting one or both ends to ground; you could then cut one end off if only connecting one end addresses your noise issue. Good luck.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Th Blue Jeans ones definitely get good reviews... But I don't think they are nice looking.
> They have that plastic thing that looks ugly and seems unnecessary. Are there options that I am missing?


they will build it to order, give them a call and ask for something prettier

PS, those colors are specific to home theater installs. They are more of a home stereo company.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Maybe take a jumper cable and when the noise if there, then ground the rack to the battery?
> 
> Tearing everything apart is not a great aid to fixing one thing that you know.
> 
> ...




He has already said he knows exactly where the sound is coming from.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> He has already said he knows exactly where the sound is coming from.


Righteo, He said something to the effect that it is jumping off the rack into the RCA because it has no shield.

How does the sound do that?
Is it electrically jumping into the RCA? Or magnetically jumping in?
How is the sound of the alternator existing in the rack?

Changing the RCA is somewhat analagous to putting a bandaid on the flu.

Back to the jump cables... attach the rack to the HU, rather than the battery. Or better yet do both, as the big roach clip on there makes it easy and quick.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> they will build it to order, give them a call and ask for something prettier
> 
> PS, those colors are specific to home theater installs. They are more of a home stereo company.


Good point. I did see that techflex was an option...


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Holmz said:


> Righteo, He said something to the effect that it is jumping off the rack into the RCA because it has no shield.
> 
> How does the sound do that?
> Is it electrically jumping into the RCA? Or magnetically jumping in?
> ...


I can't explain it scientifically, I am not that smart... All I know is this - if the thin part of the rca is touching or close to the amp rack there is a lot of alt whine, if it is pulled away from the rack it's silent. How, why? Dunno. 

If a different RCA silences the noise, I consider that a solution not a band aid. 

I don't have a head unit, so a ground loop is not possible... My system is DAP directly to DSP.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Holmz said:


> Righteo, He said something to the effect that it is jumping off the rack into the RCA because it has no shield.
> 
> How does the sound do that?
> Is it electrically jumping into the RCA? Or magnetically jumping in?
> ...


It is likely EMF...an Electro Magnetic Field being generated by the power wires and carried/distibuted by the condcutive amp rack and picked up as noise by the proximity of the RCAs to the amp rack.

One way to test if it is the RCAs are carrying the noise would be to use a cheap, NON shielded RCA instead of the shield ones and see if the whine increases


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## Omicron (Jul 15, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> The shielding is inside the jacket for sure... There is no shielding or additional insulation in that area pictured above, it's only insulated wire and a sleeve that is the equivalent of thin heat shrink tubing.


I’m not sure if the 9000’s would do the trick? The other place that could custom make them for aesthetics and performance is Moon Audio. Drew is a Wizard with cabling.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

seafish said:


> It is likely EMF...an Electro Magnetic Field being generated by the power wires and carried/distibuted by the condcutive amp rack and picked up as noise by the proximity of the RCAs to the amp rack.
> 
> One way to test if it is the RCAs are carrying the noise would be to use a cheap, NON shielded RCA instead of the shield ones and see if the whine increases


Yes, this. ^^^ 

I have sorta done that test already - when the non-shielded part of the rcas is close or touching the amp rack the whine gets really loud (when I move it away it gets quieter...).


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Omicron said:


> I’m not sure if the 9000’s would do the trick? The other place that could custom make them for aesthetics and performance is Moon Audio. Drew is a Wizard with cabling.


I think the 9000s would do the trick, and they are on my list... Very nice looking too.

I'll check out Moon Audio.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

These SVS ones seem pretty nice, too, and they get great reviews over on the avs forum. I think the separate channels would help me tuck the cables in the crevices of the amp rack... The down side is that the shortest available is 1m. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NCSQ5M4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> I think the 9000s would do the trick, and they are on my list... Very nice looking too.


WOW...I KNOW that the Stinger 9000 is a well made cable, and VERY good looking to as I have a pair of 9000 RCA "wyes" that I bought NIB super cheap on Ebay from a thrift shop reseller). The packaging is stellar too!!! 

That being said, I DO wonder how they got that graph that shows a 15dB increases in Bass frequency response compared to a"typical" cable. 

NICE cable, but HATE the hype!!! LOL!!!


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

The other thing I’d look at is isolating the amp rack. Put a thin layer of rubber under any points that are touching the car frame. And use some plastic sleeves and rubber washers to ensure your mounting bolts don’t ground the rack to the body either. I’d potentially try this before looking for new RCAs unless you’re just trying to get them perfectly sized.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

dgage said:


> The other thing I’d look at is isolating the amp rack. Put a thin layer of rubber under any points that are touching the car frame. And use some plastic sleeves and rubber washers to ensure your mounting bolts don’t ground the rack to the body either. I’d potentially try this before looking for new RCAs unless you’re just trying to get them perfectly sized.


The rack is isolated and does not actually touch anything (metal on metal) but the amps themselves.
Under the amp rack is a plywood base that the rack is bolted to.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> The rack is isolated and does not actually touch anything (metal on metal) but the amps themselves.
> 
> Under the amp rack is a plywood base that the rack is bolted to.




Maybe isolate the amp from the rack? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> The rack is isolated and does not actually touch anything (metal on metal) but the amps themselves.
> Under the amp rack is a plywood base that the rack is bolted to.


That thing is SOOOOOO f*cking beautiful !!!!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

seafish said:


> That thing is SOOOOOO f*cking beautiful !!!!


Thanks!!

A couple more pics:


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

OP how high-end are you looking for? Here's a $5,000 RCA (for 15'):
https://www.thecableco.com/galileo-sx-digital-rca.html

I've seen $10,000 RCA's...


Here's another for $2600...

https://www.thecableco.com/stradivarius-amati-edition-rca-interconnect-pair.html


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## Omicron (Jul 15, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> I think the 9000s would do the trick, and they are on my list... Very nice looking too.
> 
> I'll check out Moon Audio.


With the Moon Audio, Drew can custom make the size for ya so could you get it exact lengths. Black Dragon are good ones. 
With the Stinger 9000’s you can bend the heck out of them.


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Snake oil. Just buy some RCA's that are properly shielded and made from quality materials. I recommended blue jeans cables.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

DavidRam said:


> I can't explain it scientifically, I am not that smart... All I know is this - if the thin part of the rca is touching or close to the amp rack there is a lot of alt whine, if it is pulled away from the rack it's silent. How, why? Dunno.
> 
> If a different RCA silences the noise, I consider that a solution not a band aid.
> 
> I don't have a head unit, so a ground loop is not possible... My system is DAP directly to DSP.


So I should the DAP job ccoming in optically?

It is either a magnetic field, or an electric field, or a ground loop.
Since it changes as the RCAs get closer to the rack, then the ground loop is not likely.
So whether it is electrical field or electrical currents, translates to the fact that there should not be those in the rack.the solution is to minimise those in the rack. The RCAs won't hurt, but mitigating the source of the noise is usually better than blocking it. It looks like a lot of care has gone into it, so if another wire is needed somewhere then it would make a near perfect install into a perfect install. Right now Ou are on the 1 yard line.

In which case the jumper cable test seems worthwhile.
If you amp is tied to ground, then maybe try tying the rack to the amp and see if the noise changes at all?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Holmz said:


> So I should the DAP job ccoming in optically?
> 
> It is either a magnetic field, or an electric field, or a ground loop.
> Since it changes as the RCAs get closer to the rack, then the ground loop is not likely.
> ...


The DAP is connect via coax... I am going to try grounding the rack and see if that helps.

Btw, the alt whine is so faint that it's impossible to hear with music playing, and I have to pay very close attention to hear it while driving (when it even exists). It's not a very serious issue...
I know for sure that better shielded rcas will fix the problem and I also want new rcas for looks.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Pb82 Ronin said:


> OP how high-end are you looking for? Here's a $5,000 RCA (for 15'):
> https://www.thecableco.com/galileo-sx-digital-rca.html
> 
> I've seen $10,000 RCA's...
> ...


Damn! Those are a little out of my budget, lol! My rule of thumb is not to buy rcas that cost more than my entire system. 



Omicron said:


> With the Moon Audio, Drew can custom make the size for ya so could you get it exact lengths. Black Dragon are good ones.
> With the Stinger 9000’s you can bend the heck out of them.


I am really starting to lean towards the Stinger 9000s... They seem to have some interesting build features that many rcas don't and they match the amp rack perfectly.


----------



## Common Sense (Sep 25, 2014)

Blue Jeans LC-1 for me.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Common Sense said:


> Blue Jeans LC-1 for me.



I sent them an email requesting info and pictures of options... Unfortunately, if they look like the pictures I am seeing online, they won't work for me...


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## Common Sense (Sep 25, 2014)

DavidRam said:


> I sent them an email requesting info and pictures of options... Unfortunately, if they look like the pictures I am seeing online, they won't work for me...


WHy not? The terminals are very very long if you needed to take a tight corner for sure.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Common Sense said:


> WHy not? The terminals are very very long if you needed to take a tight corner for sure.


The aesthetics... 

I like my RCAs like I like my women - well built and good looking...


----------



## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> Damn! Those are a little out of my budget, lol! My rule of thumb is not to buy rcas that cost more than my entire system.
> 
> 
> 
> I am really starting to lean towards the Stinger 9000s... They seem to have some interesting build features that many rcas don't and they match the amp rack perfectly.


Why not call Stinger tech support and tell them about your problem and ask them IF AND HOW the 9000 rejects EMF better then the 8000 series.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

seafish said:


> Why not call Stinger tech support and tell them about your problem and ask them IF AND HOW the 9000 rejects EMF better then the 8000 series.


_Bright minds think alike!_ I sent them an email about that this morning!


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I would just DIY with decent shielded mic cable, tech flex and ends that meet your aesthetic preference. I'm currently making the change over to DIY RCAs in my own install. 

Gepco 61801EZ Mic Cable
Rean NYS352BS Connectors
PE Cable Pants
Techflex from Wirecare 

Material cost is cheaper than equivalent Stinger 8000s, but it does take time and you have to have the equipment to make them. If you aren't up for DIYing your own, I am sure someone like Joe at RSD could take care of you. He'll custom build just about anything you want.

https://www.facebook.com/RSDcustomcables/


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

rton20s said:


> I would just DIY with decent shielded mic cable, tech flex and ends that meet your aesthetic preference. I'm currently making the change over to DIY RCAs in my own install.
> 
> Gepco 61801EZ Mic Cable
> Rean NYS352BS Connectors
> ...


My solder skills are subpar and that's if I'm bragging... :blush:


----------



## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> _Bright minds think alike!_ I sent them an email about that this morning!


Shoulda known!!! LOL.


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

DavidRam said:


> My solder skills are subpar and that's if I'm bragging... :blush:


If I can do it... 

Seriously, the wires are pretty tiny, but with a helping hands and my Hakko soldering iron, it is a pretty straight forward task. Shin John actually has a nice little DIY write up with photos on how to build your own RCAs. 

Low Cost DIY Interconnect Details, a How To Photo Gallery by shinjohn at pbase.com

The one advantage for assembly that the Streetwires connectors that Shin John used is that they have a hole for the ground conductor to slide into. If you want something nice than the Reans for DIY, finding something with a hole like that certainly makes things a little simpler.


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Look for the source of the noise because no matter what cables you end up with, they will still have to fight against it.

Like suggested many times already, see what happens when you add a drain wire to the rack. Super simple: take any piece of wire and connect it to the ground of your amp or processor (whichever side the rca cable's directional drain wire is attached to).

Take the other end of the wire and gently tap the amp rack to ground it momentarily. Listen to the noise with the music off, and see if it changes when you tap the amp rack. Try this many times.

Also, try to use literally any other rca cable. You can learn a lot from swapping out a questionable part, even for a worse one. Even those ubiquitous red/white/yellow ones that come with every piece of home tv/stereo equipment would be worth trying.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Justin Zazzi said:


> Look for the source of the noise because no matter what cables you end up with, they will still have to fight against it.
> 
> Like suggested many times already, see what happens when you add a drain wire to the rack. Super simple: take any piece of wire and connect it to the ground of your amp or processor (whichever side the rca cable's directional drain wire is attached to).
> 
> ...


I will definitely try grounding the rack when I start digging into this... Again, the noise is so faint, that I have to turn the music off and lean toward a tweeter to hear it while driving. I am not terribly worried about it, but of course I'll do what it takes to make it go away. 

I have already determined that the non-shielded part of the rca getting close or touching the rack causes noise, and that moving it away makes the noise go away. There is no noise when the shielded part of the rca is touching the rack. 

Getting new rcas has as much to do with looks as it does with quieting the noise, though.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

https://www.yoycart.com/Category/50018886/Head+of+RCA?&p=1
I'm using this type of cheap RCA heads follow by taking odd length of Cat6 network cables from company(Amp Netconnect), let a fellow that always boast he is an audiophile and he said my RCA cables worth $1000 a pair.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

kyheng said:


> https://www.yoycart.com/Category/50018886/Head+of+RCA?&p=1
> I'm using this type of cheap RCA heads follow by taking odd length of Cat6 network cables from company(Amp Netconnect), let a fellow that always boast he is an audiophile and he said my RCA cables worth $1000 a pair.


Hopefully he buys a few from you...


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Just got an email back from Stinger, and apparently the shielding does NOT extend past the stopper where the 2 channels split. They said it's so short it's not likely to be an issue... 
I beg to differ: that's about 3" on each end that's not shielded, kinda much on a 18" cable...


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

hmmmm...seeems like you'll have to go with a single channel cable to get the shielding to run upon to the plug itself. Prolly time to five former member Westco a call. Someone else earlier posted his link and he makes REALLY nice single channel RCA custom cut to your length and wrapped in your choice of tech flex.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

*No offense to those who recommended Blue Jeans*... 
I cannot find another image, but it looks like this is how Blue Jean's would look if I add the Techflex option.  

I don't doubt their quality is top notch, but they are some of the worst looking I have seen... Btw, they emailed me back and said that I could special order the cables without those colored plastic things.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

With blue jeans it’s usability versus bling. Talk to someone like westco to get them custom made if you have specific styling needs, and you also want quality.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

DavidRam said:


> *No offense to those who recommended Blue Jeans*...
> I cannot find another image, but it looks like this is how Blue Jean's would look if I add the Techflex option.
> 
> I don't doubt their quality is top notch, but they are some of the worst looking I have seen... Btw, they emailed me back and said that I could special order the cables without those colored plastic things.







FYI- the plastic things are actually functional as strain relief so that the cables don't get bent at too sever of an angle near the termination point, causing failure.


But they use a nice custom cable for their application and high quality ends. It's a very solid cable. Downside is the stiffness and size if you need something compact. If they say it's an option, get the ones without the strain relief and have them run the techflex all the way up to the barrel, then heatshrink over top. Easy.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

GreatLaBroski said:


> With blue jeans it’s usability versus bling. Talk to someone like westco to get them custom made if you have specific styling needs, and you also want quality.


For sure... No disrespect towards Blue Jeans, they have obviously made a name for themselves with their quality. 



captainobvious said:


> FYI- the plastic things are actually functional as strain relief so that the cables don't get bent at too sever of an angle near the termination point, causing failure.
> 
> 
> But they use a nice custom cable for their application and high quality ends. It's a very solid cable. Downside is the stiffness and size if you need something compact. If they say it's an option, get the ones without the strain relief and have them run the techflex all the way up to the barrel, then heatshrink over top. Easy.


Thanks. I was reading about their function and it makes total sense... I will shoot them another email and see what they can do in the looks department. Lol

On the topic of looks, the Stinger 9000 are the best looking and closest match to the look of my set-up, imho. So if I can fix the whine and not have to be as concerned about the shielding, I could get those. 

Everything is black or brushed aluminum, and beneath the aluminum rack is mostly carbon fiber (vinyl wrap), which is visible through the holes (1.3" diameter) in the rack. 



















My second favorite in the looks department is Dynavox from Germany... Though I don't love the gold. 










And my third favorite is SVS Soundpath:


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I'd still reach out to Joseph Davis at RSD Custom Cables if you have a specific look you are going after. He can combine the cable, connectors and sleeving of your choice made to specific lengths. Because it is completely custom, you'll know for sure that your shielding runs from end to end. 

Something as simple as the 61801EZ (several color options) cable paired inside of Techflex Flexo Carbon sleeving with Rean NYS352B connectors could match your aesthetic needs, meet your performance requirements and be relatively inexpensive.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

I'll just leave this here.
https://www.jbhifi.com.au/gps-car-a.../stinger-sgi22-right-angle-rca-adapter/73229/


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Holmz said:


> I'll just leave this here.
> https://www.jbhifi.com.au/gps-car-a.../stinger-sgi22-right-angle-rca-adapter/73229/





That link is to a simple 90 degree adapter.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

rton20s said:


> I'd still reach out to Joseph Davis at RSD Custom Cables if you have a specific look you are going after. He can combine the cable, connectors and sleeving of your choice made to specific lengths. Because it is completely custom, you'll know for sure that your shielding runs from end to end.
> 
> Something as simple as the 61801EZ (several color options) cable paired inside of Techflex Flexo Carbon sleeving with Rean NYS352B connectors could match your aesthetic needs, meet your performance requirements and be relatively inexpensive.





I agree with this. Joe will do a great job and provide the look you are going for. The Carbon techflex is what I use mostly as well. Looks quite good. You can also even order the same cable that Blue Jeans uses for the construction of your cables with Joe.
Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Low capacitance audio cable, for sale at RawCable.com


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Hmmmm... :bulb:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OPCF7HU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1Y2LLQTDNJ3AJ&psc=1


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

captainobvious said:


> That link is to a simple 90 degree adapter.


And REALLY UGLY ones a that!!! LOL.


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## CAAMobileInstallations (Jan 21, 2017)

Try a good coax rca cable. Twisted pair doesn't shield much and works best for balanced differential inputs. Not sure on those amps or your source unit but most car audio stuff I've noticed seems to be unbalanced and I have success with making my own rcas out of good ol shielded copper coax. There's a blue jean cable test showing this. Double braided shielded coax had the best noise rejection. Twisted pair, even shielded, had the worst


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## CAAMobileInstallations (Jan 21, 2017)

I'll even make you a custom length one and ship it to you if you want to try it out. Not for free of course though lol


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

DavidRam said:


> Hmmmm... :bulb:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OPCF7HU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1Y2LLQTDNJ3AJ&psc=1





Be careful with those (and aware of others) rca barrels. They may look pretty, but they are HUGE and the diameter may cause them not to fit side by side when plugging in to head units, amps or DSP rca jacks due to the tight spacing.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

DavidRam said:


> Hmmmm... :bulb:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OPCF7HU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1Y2LLQTDNJ3AJ&psc=1


I was wondering how long it would be until you posted those. :laugh:


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

captainobvious said:


> Be careful with those (and aware of others) rca barrels. They may look pretty, but they are HUGE and the diameter may cause them not to fit side by side when plugging in to head units, amps or DSP rca jacks due to the tight spacing.


Yeah, great point. They do look really thick... I know the MiniDSP's outputs are really close together, but I'll have to check the Helix MK2's. 



rton20s said:


> I was wondering how long it would be until you posted those. :laugh:


Lol

I thought about getting those and sending them to one of the guys that do custom, and then requesting a Techflex of my choice, etc..

But by the time I do all that, it seems to be the same price as good ones off-the-shelf.


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## Frijoles24 (Apr 19, 2010)

im suprised this thread is 4 pages of rca suggestions and considerations. few people mentioned it, but brushed off

I used cheap rca cables. i had a hum. i bought better 'more shielded' cables. Increased noise. Buuut its not cause of the cables, it was a different path that increased the noise. I changed it to the other side of the car, and it decreased.

Something in that rack is picking up noise. find a new ground for the amps and ground the rack itself. 

the few that are mentioning finding the problem via ground n such, are just here trying to save your money.

im assuming the people of this forum has shifted tho.. if you search rca and noise, you will come up with data that disproves 'better shielded' rca cables. discussed in multiple threads. This was read by me about a decade ago


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Frijoles24 said:


> im suprised this thread is 4 pages of rca suggestions and considerations. few people mentioned it, but brushed off
> 
> I used cheap rca cables. i had a hum. i bought better 'more shielded' cables. Increased noise. Buuut its not cause of the cables, it was a different path that increased the noise. I changed it to the other side of the car, and it decreased.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input... 

The recommendations for fixing the whine are appreciated and will be tested asap... 

However, the noise is VERY slight (and sometimes non-existent) and it isn't the only reason I want to get new rcas. I want nice looking rcas and I am not trying to find the cheapest route or "save money."

*Last night, I went out to the Jeep to test grounding the amp rack, but when I started it up, there was no noise. I let it warm up a bit and revved the engine, still no noise... I pressed my ear to the tweeter, no noise. So I left a little piece of wire in the car, so the next time I hear it I can pull over and connect the rack to ground to see if that takes care of the problem. *

Again, the noise is SO quiet that I cannot hear it during most normal driving with music off, or with music on. The most common time I hear it, is when the music is off and I am driving about 15-20 mph.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

I apologize for being lazy and not re reading everything. Hows is the amp isolated from the amp rack? My OCD would drive me nuts if it was just metal amp on metal rack. I would need to have some neoprene between the two and i would not be able to use metal fasteners. For me that would be like screwing my amp to my rear deck. :0

Not trying to get you not to buy cables, just curious about how its attached to the rack. And how is the rack isolated from the chassis of the car.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Frijoles24 said:


> im suprised this thread is 4 pages of rca suggestions and considerations. few people mentioned it, but brushed off
> 
> I used cheap rca cables. i had a hum. i bought better 'more shielded' cables. Increased noise. Buuut its not cause of the cables, it was a different path that increased the noise. I changed it to the other side of the car, and it decreased.
> 
> ...


That is all fine and dandy, but once someone has it in their craw, then almost no amount of evidence helps.
It is confirmation bias.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> I apologize for being lazy and not re reading everything. Hows is the amp isolated from the amp rack? My OCD would drive me nuts if it was just metal amp on metal rack. I would need to have some neoprene between the two and i would not be able to use metal fasteners. For me that would be like screwing my amp to my rear deck. :0
> 
> Not trying to get you not to buy cables, just curious about how its attached to the rack. And how is the rack isolated from the chassis of the car.


The amps only have foam between them and the rack... The black base that the rack is mounted to is wood and the rack is not actually touching any metal other than the amps via the mounting screws. The wood base is bolted down to the car...

When I pull everything out to swap the dsps, I will isolate even the bolts that are securing the amps to the rack, so they are not touching the rack, and of course verify that the amps are not touching the rack at all. 

I hope these pics help...


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Holmz said:


> That is all fine and dandy, but once someone has it in their craw, then almost no amount of evidence helps.
> It is confirmation bias.



Maybe I didn't word this thread properly...


I'll try again:

*Agenda *- To buy new RCAs that are well made and match my amp rack. 

*Budget* - Not to exceed $100 per pair (unless they include extra special snake oil, at which point I might spend a little more, lol). I only have a 2way plus subs, so I need 3 pairs, which would make a total max budget of $300.

*Aesthetics* - My set up is a combination of brushed aluminum, black and carbon fiber (vinyl). I would like the RCAs to have this general theme and look to them. 

*No-No's & Must Haves* - I won't be making my own. I don't like plastic or color. They must come with Techflex from the factory. Length of 1.5' to 2'.

*Why* - I'm upgrading some of my components... Ordered a new Helix DSP Pro MK2 and Director and a new DAP, so this is a good time to do it as I will be tearing into a system that was supposed to be done.  

*Goals* - Upgrade the look of the amp rack, because I no longer like the look or the quality of the RCAs I currently have (Stinger 8000 series).

*Side Note* - I have a very slight alternator whine, that comes and goes. It is very faint and impossible to hear while listening to music at any volume. I can hear it now and then when driving about 15-20 mph with no music playing. If the new RCAs fix this, that would be a bonus, but if they don't I'll figure out how to fix the whine with other means. 


THANK YOU!!!


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

How do those TW3's sound?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Pb82 Ronin said:


> How do those TW3's sound?


SQ is great... Hardly need any work for them to sound really good. Output is pretty good for their size, and considering it's a small sealed box...


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

It all makes sense and getting RCAs for their look makes sense.

If it all goes swimmingly, then the alternator whine wouldn't disappear.

Good work so far on finding the relationship between the RCA placement and the whine.
Changing a lot of stuff at once can make it hard to tell which variation contributes to the end sound, but the project is looking good.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Not sure if this is a typo. Sonic's almost half the price of anywhere else... 

Sonic Electronics - $68.99
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_97597_Stinger-SI921.5.html

Amazon - $137
https://www.amazon.com/Stinger-SI92...id=1548343675&sr=8-1&keywords=Stinger+SI921.5

Ebay - $119
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SI921-...pid=26012069910&hash=item544f63a9a4:rk:4:pf:0


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

DavidRam said:


> Not sure if this is a typo. Sonic's almost half the price of anywhere else...
> 
> Sonic Electronics - $68.99
> https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_97597_Stinger-SI921.5.html
> ...


That looks like a great price on the 9000s. My only concern would be, "Special Order. Ships at Later Date."

I added a set to my cart, and it provided the following warning... 
"Special order item; should arrive by Saturday, Feb. 23. No cancellation or order adjustment can be made after purchase. Not available for expedited shipping."

It is a pretty significant savings, if you are willing to wait. My coupon code "hutsell" should also save you a few bucks, should you decide to order from Sonic.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

rton20s said:


> That looks like a great price on the 9000s. My only concern would be, "Special Order. Ships at Later Date."
> 
> I added a set to my cart, and it provided the following warning...
> "Special order item; should arrive by Saturday, Feb. 23. No cancellation or order adjustment can be made after purchase. Not available for expedited shipping."
> ...


I thought it would was an unbelievable savings... And I am in no hurry. Once I get the Director, DSP and DAP, I need to build a housing for them them in the center console.

Thanks for the coupon code, I'll try it and see what happens!


Edit: Yep, it worked. 3 sets for $196 (no tax, free shipping). I wouldn't be surprised if I got an email saying there was an error in pricing and the order will be refunded... 

*Stinger 9000 RCAs are on order!*


----------



## CoLd_FuSiOn (Jun 25, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> Maybe I didn't word this thread properly...
> 
> 
> I'll try again:
> ...


The amp rack looks really nice, great work.... my vote goes for the stinger 9000 series as well.


P.S just read your signature "My wife was furious when she overheard me say I want to do a 3 way in my Jeep." LMAO!!!


----------



## asianinvasion21 (Sep 24, 2012)

I would buy a tester pair of RCA's just to make sure they fit as well. Some of the car audio processors have the RCA's really close together. I don't think there is anyway those Blue Jean cables would fit on my processor lol. $300 is quite a bit to spend on RCA cables. I would definitely try spacing the amps or diagnosing the amp rack issue before spending the $300. The amp rack looks really nice btw, but you would probably be able to build a new one for less than $300 and reroute your wires to avoid the issues. However, it sounds like you have your heart set on buying some cables, and who doesn't want to upgrade their system.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

asianinvasion21 said:


> I would buy a tester pair of RCA's just to make sure they fit as well. Some of the car audio processors have the RCA's really close together. I don't think there is anyway those Blue Jean cables would fit on my processor lol. $300 is quite a bit to spend on RCA cables. I would definitely try spacing the amps or diagnosing the amp rack issue before spending the $300. The amp rack looks really nice btw, but you would probably be able to build a new one for less than $300 and reroute your wires to avoid the issues. However, it sounds like you have your heart set on buying some cables, and who doesn't want to upgrade their system.


Thanks man!  Yep, Stinger 9000 are on order... 

I tried again today to listen for the whine (with no music driving 0-60mph) and I could not hear it. The noise is soooooo faint and sporadic, I'm not terribly worried about it... I'll track it down at some point.


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## Omicron (Jul 15, 2018)

asianinvasion21 said:


> I would buy a tester pair of RCA's just to make sure they fit as well. Some of the car audio processors have the RCA's really close together.


I would think the clearances on the female rca ports on the Helix would be roughly the same as the PS8. If so, this is what they look like on mine with the 9000 barrels to give you a reference. Also, if you look on the right side of the PS8 near the top, that yellow barrel is a Blue Jeans cable. It’s a spare dig coax I was using when my other cable was being made, but it shows the size of the cover over the barrel.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Omicron said:


> I would think the clearances on the female rca ports on the Helix would be roughly the same as the PS8. If so, this is what they look like on mine with the 9000 barrels to give you a reference. Also, if you look on the right side of the PS8 near the top, that yellow barrel is a Blue Jeans cable. It’s a spare dig coax I was using when my other cable was being made, but it shows the size of the cover over the barrel.


Very nice, thanks for posting!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

CoLd_FuSiOn said:


> The amp rack looks really nice, great work.... my vote goes for the stinger 9000 series as well.
> 
> 
> P.S just read your signature "My wife was furious when she overheard me say I want to do a 3 way in my Jeep." LMAO!!!



Thank you! Lol

My wife saw that once and she was like "wtf is that supposed to mean?!" 

I had to sit her down and explain it to her... Uuuhhh, I mean the 3way sound system... not the other 3way! :laugh: :laugh:


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## timps67 (Dec 29, 2012)

It looks like you already ordered new cables, but here's a quick test in case you need it, wrap the thinner part of your cables with aluminum foil. We use it all the time in the IC industry for troubleshooting and we deal with a lot more RF and EM noise than you should ever see in a car. A couple layers should do the trick. If the noise is still there the cables probably aren't your issue, unless there is a short inside the cable, which could be why it goes away and comes back when you move it.

If it's still there when you try the new cables maybe try isolating the amps from the amp rack with nylon hardware. A nylon spacer in between amps and the rack with nylon bolts and nuts should do it. Just some suggestions, hopefully it's an easy fix.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

DavidRam said:


> I currently have Stinger 8000 rcas, and I am getting some alt whine because the ends aren't shielded and my amp rack is all aluminum, with the power wires touching, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey Dave,

I’m looking at your picture and see that the amplifiers are secured through the metal body of the amplifier to an aluminum rack, which means they are electrically connected as well. Since the amplifier is grounded internally, the RCA outside shield is connected to the amp ground, and the amplifier is also grounded to some place else on the vehicles chassis ground, there is a potential for a ground loop to form between all that. I didn’t read this whole thread so sorry if this has already been said but did you try and isolate the amplifiers chassis from that aluminum rack? If the amplifiers are not screwed to the Aluminum than no current can flow and no ground loop can form there. 

Unscrew those amplifiers from that rack temporarily and run them so that there is no metal to metal contact of any kind between the amplifiers and that aluminum and also between those amps except for the RCA’s and dedicated ground connections at the same spot. Just my thought.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

timps67 said:


> It looks like you already ordered new cables, but here's a quick test in case you need it, wrap the thinner part of your cables with aluminum foil. We use it all the time in the IC industry for troubleshooting and we deal with a lot more RF and EM noise than you should ever see in a car. A couple layers should do the trick. If the noise is still there the cables probably aren't your issue, unless there is a short inside the cable, which could be why it goes away and comes back when you move it.
> 
> If it's still there when you try the new cables maybe try isolating the amps from the amp rack with nylon hardware. A nylon spacer in between amps and the rack with nylon bolts and nuts should do it. Just some suggestions, hopefully it's an easy fix.


Thanks for you input. I'll definitely be isolating the amps from the rack when I pull it all apart... It's funny you brought using aluminum foil, because I thought of trying that, but never got around to it.



V8toilet said:


> Hey Dave,
> 
> I’m looking at your picture and see that the amplifiers are secured through the metal body of the amplifier to an aluminum rack, which means they are electrically connected as well. Since the amplifier is grounded internally, the RCA outside shield is connected to the amp ground, and the amplifier is also grounded to some place else on the vehicles chassis ground, there is a potential for a ground loop to form between all that. I didn’t read this whole thread so sorry if this has already been said but did you try and isolate the amplifiers chassis from that aluminum rack? If the amplifiers are not screwed to the Aluminum than no current can flow and no ground loop can form there.
> 
> Unscrew those amplifiers from that rack temporarily and run them so that there is no metal to metal contact of any kind between the amplifiers and that aluminum and also between those amps except for the RCA’s and dedicated ground connections at the same spot. Just my thought.


Yep thanks, that's on the to-do list... I'm gonna come up with a way to isolate the amps completely from the rack, when I start digging into this.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> Yep thanks, that's on the to-do list... I'm gonna come up with a way to isolate the amps completely from the rack, when I start digging into this.


Sorbothane discs in a 70 or 80 durometer will do the trick perfectly...they are available from amazon in all sorts of diameters and thicknesses, with and without a center hole.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

seafish said:


> Sorbothane discs in a 70 or 80 durometer will do the trick perfectly...they are available from amazon in all sorts of diameters and thicknesses, with and without a center hole.


Cool, I'll check those out... I also thought of putting a really thin (2-3mm) plexiglass layer between the amps and the rack. It would isolate them completely and allow more light to glow underneath the amps. 

Edit: this would take care of both amps...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-3mm-Ma...lexiglass-24-x12-P95-AZM-On-Sale/283217698950


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> Cool, I'll check those out... I also thought of putting a really thin (2-3mm) plexiglass layer between the amps and the rack. It would isolate them completely and allow more light to glow underneath the amps.
> 
> Edit: this would take care of both amps...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-3mm-Ma...lexiglass-24-x12-P95-AZM-On-Sale/283217698950


That would LOOK cool for sure, but also partially reduce the cooling effect of using the perforated aluminum in the first place, which is one of the reason I LOVE using it ... form AND function. And the sorbothane would not only electrically isolate the amps, but give them vibrational isolation/protection as well... just my meager two cents.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

seafish said:


> That would LOOK cool for sure, but also partially reduce the cooling effect of using the perforated aluminum in the first place, which is one of the reason I LOVE using it ... form AND function. And the sorbothane would not only electrically isolate the amps, but give them vibrational isolation/protection as well... just my meager two cents.


Good points, I'll check that stuff out for sure... Btw, I didn't clarify - the plexiglass would not be a solid sheet that would cover the holes in the rack... It would just be a rectangular frame cut to the exact footprint of the amps, but the center would be cut out to allow cooling and air circulation. 

What kinda of material is the sorbothane, is it rubber-like or more like hard plastic?

Actually, now that I think about it, it could look cool to have large, round, black feet at each corner of the amps, too. It would mimic the circular pattern in the rack itself...


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Interestingly, I had a similar rack in my previous build and no alt whine at all... 

The only difference is that it had a frosted, plexiglass back on it to defuse the light. Otherwise, the way it was wired, mounted and the rcas themselves were identical... Strange.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Interestingly, I had a similar rack in my previous build and no alt whine at all...
> 
> The only difference is that it had a frosted, plexiglass back on it to defuse the light. Otherwise, the way it was wired, mounted and the rcas themselves were identical... Strange.


i personally like this rack better, and i would have painted it a high gloss black to contrast with the amps.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> What kinda of material is the sorbothane, is it rubber-like or more like hard plastic?
> 
> Actually, now that I think about it, it could look cool to have large, round, black feet at each corner of the amps, too. It would mimic the circular pattern in the rack itself...


Sorbothane is like a gel silicone, but available in different durometers.
That being said NONE of them are like hard plastic but like slightly squishy plastic. It is both an electrical and also vibration isolator.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> i personally like this rack better, and i would have painted it a high gloss black to contrast with the amps.


In person, the larger diameter holes on the current rack look really cool, pics don't do it justice... You get a little peek-a-boo view of the wiring and dsp under there.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

DavidRam said:


> In person, the larger diameter holes on the current rack look really cool, pics don't do it justice... You get a little peek-a-boo view of the wiring and dsp under there.


Luckily the psychoaustics aspects of how we perceive sound, also makes them sound good.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Holmz said:


> Luckily the psychoaustics aspects of how we perceive sound, also makes them sound good.


I think you're joking, but I'm not sure...


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

DavidRam said:


> I think you're joking, but I'm not sure...


You're getting better at this. 

It is mostly serious. But also funny that humans work that way.
Not like haha funny, but still funny.


For most people it works like this:
1) look at a bunch of cables in the $10 to $10000 range.
2) convince one's self that cable X is the best value and quality
3) buy cable X
4) install the new cables.

Then the front part of the brain (and the ears) become convinced that they sound better.

There is almost no way to stop that.
But they will still look better, and they may actually be better.

If you could mitigate the noise with grounding, then it will in fact be improved whether or not you also have new cables. And new cables and better grounding will be the optimal approach:
1) mitigate the source of the noise with grounding
2) mitigate any remaining noise coming in with the new shielded cables.

Since you can barely hear it now, then it should be easy to get it to the point that optimal and good enough are effectively the same.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

David it's been a bit since I've been on here and damn your setup has come a long way from the sundown X series sub. The Stinger 9000s are a great cable I've used them many times without disappointment. 
If you can swing it at all I would recommend making them yourself with cable, techflex and barrels you like. You know me though I always like making things complicated lol.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

etroze said:


> David it's been a bit since I've been on here and damn your setup has come a long way from the sundown X series sub. The Stinger 9000s are a great cable I've used them many times without disappointment.
> If you can swing it at all I would recommend making them yourself with cable, techflex and barrels you like. You know me though I always like making things complicated lol.


Wow, E... It's been a long time... Where've you been?


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

DavidRam said:


> etroze said:
> 
> 
> > David it's been a bit since I've been on here and damn your setup has come a long way from the sundown X series sub. The Stinger 9000s are a great cable I've used them many times without disappointment.
> ...


Traveling the world my friend.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

These things are beautiful


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> These things are beautiful




Dang those are fancy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

etroze said:


> Traveling the world my friend.


Must be military? I recognize my own peeps!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> Dang those are fancy!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Super fancy... Being both a "car" guy AND a car-audio guy, they appeal to both of me. Lol


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> Super fancy... Being both a "car" guy AND a car-audio guy, they appeal to both of me. Lol




That's awesome now did they solve the problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> That's awesome now did they solve the problem?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haven't had time to swap em... It's part of a bunch of changes to my system, but it'll take some time.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> Haven't had time to swap em... It's part of a bunch of changes to my system, but it'll take some time.




Oooo ok what else are you changing? Updating your build thread?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> Oooo ok what else are you changing? Updating your build thread?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


- MiniDSP to Helix Pro Mk2 and Director with new Android DAP (Fiio m9), in a homemade housing on center console. 
- Rear fill with GB25s and Mosconi Pico amp. Swapping D pillar panels to oem ones with molded speaker housing.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> - MiniDSP to Helix Pro Mk2 and Director with new Android DAP (Fiio m9), in a homemade housing on center console.
> 
> - Rear fill with GB25s and Mosconi Pico amp. Swapping D pillar panels to oem ones with molded speaker housing.




I'm following your thread on the helix direct mount you do damn fine work. I'm taking some ideas from you for mine if when I ever get around to it 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> I'm following your thread on the helix direct mount you do damn fine work. I'm taking some ideas from you for mine if when I ever get around to it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you, sir!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I'm finally getting back to this... Here are the parts I'm using to isolate the amps from the aluminum rack.

I made some plastic tabs to fit the four corners of each amp, bought some polypropylene nuts and bolts (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DP93PM4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and made a little trim piece to hold the rcas in place. 




















I cut this out of a scrap piece of frosted plexiglass, filed and sanded it and then polished with aluminum polish to bring it to a clear shine.


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## RatesTrader (Nov 1, 2019)

This may be an outlier so to speak but I have these NVX X series RCAs in my car and I’ve been quite impressed with them. Zero noise, excellent signal transfer and they lock in nice and snug. I have some Audioquest in my home setup but I wouldn’t hesitate to use these. They also come in a variety of sizes to suit your needs.

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_45093_NVX-XIX43.html


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

RatesTrader said:


> This may be an outlier so to speak but I have these NVX X series RCAs in my car and I’ve been quite impressed with them. Zero noise, excellent signal transfer and they lock in nice and snug. I have some Audioquest in my home setup but I wouldn’t hesitate to use these. They also come in a variety of sizes to suit your needs.
> 
> https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_45093_NVX-XIX43.html


Those are really nice...


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Incredible looking amp rack. Very nice work. Great selection of RCA cables they match the install really well. 

Are the bolts that pass through the plywood and continue on to hold the aluminum piece making contact with the metal of the vehicle?
If so then you may be creating a ground loop. 

Also, there is a magnetic and electric field that surrounds a wire conducting electricity. The fact that it passes through the hole in the metal amp rack is an area of concern for picking up noise. 

Interested to learn if you have swapped out your DSP and fabricated the controller housing?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Incredible looking amp rack. Very nice work. Great selection of RCA cables they match the install really well.
> 
> Are the bolts that pass through the plywood and continue on to hold the aluminum piece making contact with the metal of the vehicle?
> If so then you may be creating a ground loop.
> ...


Thank you sir!

The bolts that go through the plywood and aluminum do not make any contact with the car or any other metal. I have since isolated the amps completely from the aluminum... and the alt whine is also completely gone (though I am not sure what fixed it). 

I did swap out the DSP to a Helix Pro MK2 and I made a housing for the Director.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

This was the finished product:


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

Damn dude - you have some mad fabrication skills!! I could only dream of my install looking so professional.  VERY nice!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

jtrosky said:


> Damn dude - you have some mad fabrication skills!! I could only dream of my install looking so professional.  VERY nice!


Thank you, sir!


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Wow! That center mount for the Helix controller looks factory quality or better. Thanks for sharing the photos. 

I'm so glad that you no longer have the noise issue. Maybe it was the swap out to the Helix. I know that my Helix was dead quiet.

How are you liking the sound of the Helix? I found mine a little peaky in the 2.5K region. Nick Apicella was able to tune out the majority of the harsh bite, but I couldn't on my own no matter how hard I tried with out taking away too much detail. 

But it must be installation dependent, because some vehicles I've heard have the harshness to it and some don't.

Eventually, the overall sound ended up grating on my nerves, so I switched to an Arc Audio PS8 and haven't regretted it. Especially since the OpAmps are customizable. 

Do you have a link to a build log? I'd like to see the rest of your install. Really professional. Props to you!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Wow! That center mount for the Helix controller looks factory quality or better. Thanks for sharing the photos.
> 
> I'm so glad that you no longer have the noise issue. Maybe it was the swap out to the Helix. I know that my Helix was dead quiet.
> 
> ...


Thanks again!

As far as the Helix goes, I am still learning how to use it... Me and it had a rocky start and I really have not grown any more fond of it. I was very comfortable with the MiniDSP 6x8 and I wish I would have just upgraded to a 8x12 with DIRAC instead of the Helix. BUT I would not have had the fun of building the Director mount, so I guess there is that! 

The PS8 looks like a great unit, too. 

Here are a couple more build logs, if you ever get really bored:

Fiio x5 mount for cup holder
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...-custom-mount-fiio-x5-dap-center-console.html

The Director mount log
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...-fiio-m9-building-center-console-housing.html

DAP and Mini remote aluminum housing (starting at post #156)
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...y/404897-new-build-2018-grand-cherokee-7.html

Box build for 2 GB12s
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...629-sealed-box-gb12s-2018-grand-cherokee.html

Sub box out of pvc
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/417229-sub-box-tube-12-pvc.html

Sub box, a work in progress
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...-fancy-sub-box-build-need-some-ideas-plz.html


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## invictuz (Jul 16, 2012)

Are Stinger 8000 and/or 9000 series interconnects considered higher end?

I have been using Stinger Pro 8000 series for a few years now.
After I became familiar with their threaded RCA plugs (you can screw the male onto the female connect for a secure/solid connection).

Connection breakout:









Stinger 8000


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