# How many of you would buy a head unit based solely on FLAC



## nubz69 (Aug 27, 2005)

I'm curious how many of you guys would buy a name brand head unit based only on the fact that it supported FLAC.


----------



## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

if it would read of a HDD or flash and had a good output section yea


----------



## basshead (Sep 12, 2008)

Yes, I would buy a head unit only for FLAC *or ALAC* support

Oh wait, my deh-p01 do it already


----------



## Mark the Bold (May 28, 2010)

Well my Kenwood KDC-x995 plays ALAC just fine via my ipod. However, most people seem to think that mp3 bitrate is everything. I'd rather have a professionally compressed 192 kbit/s mp3 than the "lossless" crap floating around the torrent world anyday....

And most car equipment is just not high fidelity enough to truly appreciate FLAC recordings. FLAC is home studio focused listening material.


----------



## SQ_lover (Apr 17, 2011)

Mark the Bold said:


> Well my Kenwood KDC-x995 plays ALAC just fine via my ipod. However, most people seem to think that mp3 bitrate is everything. I'd rather have a professionally compressed 192 kbit/s mp3 than the "lossless" crap floating around the torrent world anyday....
> 
> And most car equipment is just not high fidelity enough to truly appreciate FLAC recordings. FLAC is home studio focused listening material.


use software like "audio checker" to check the source of FLAC file (lossy or lossless).


----------



## eggyhustles (Sep 18, 2008)

Nope

I can't hear the difference between FLAC and a 244 v0 mp3


----------



## nubz69 (Aug 27, 2005)

I've found that a lot of times I experience the difference in listening fatigue. Listen to Pandora for a few hours and you will see what I mean.


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

How about adding the blu-ray option so all those FLAC or ALAC files can fit on one disc (just nutted).


----------



## nubz69 (Aug 27, 2005)

You can just toss them on a hard drive so why bother with blu-ray?


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

nubz69 said:


> You can just toss them on a hard drive so why bother with blu-ray?


Yeah but a blu ray are 40G's and the size of a disc. While a hard drive might be bigger. But thats just my thinking.


----------



## Brian10962001 (Jul 11, 2009)

There is really no point in FLAC as far as head units go. It takes up nearly as much space as an actual cd. You can take a FLAC copy, burn it to a CD and have an exact copy of that CD... OR just play the cd.


----------



## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

eggyhustles said:


> I can't hear the difference between FLAC and a 244 v0 mp3


Neither can anyone else, though some of them will claim otherwise. Though I personally can't stand MP3 and would much rather have AAC or Ogg Vorbis...


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

I'd rather have access to over 10 million 256-320kbps CBR MP3 tracks for $5 a month, that I can make _sample perfect_ recordings of to keep and play from wherever I choose. All legal and without ever having been uncompressed and recompressed during the recording process. 

Although, I'd never cancel the subscription and keep the files, even though it is legal to do so. Seems morally wrong and EXTREMELY tight waded.


----------



## eggyhustles (Sep 18, 2008)

dragonrage said:


> Neither can anyone else, though some of them will claim otherwise. Though I personally can't stand MP3 and would much rather have AAC or Ogg Vorbis...


I've tried ogg, couldn't hear the difference :laugh:


----------



## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

eggyhustles said:


> I've tried ogg, couldn't hear the difference :laugh:


I'm not saying it'll sound better overall... It is just totally free and takes less bitrate than MP3 to sound transparent.


----------



## GranteedEV (Oct 17, 2010)

dragonrage said:


> Neither can anyone else, though some of them will claim otherwise. Though I personally can't stand MP3 and would much rather have AAC or Ogg Vorbis...


A resolving system can make the difference between even a higher quality (320CBR/VBR V.0) mp3 and a FLAC night and day with the right content material.

I don't think car systems can really be this resolving to be honest because of obvious issues. Headphones and GOOD high end home systems are able to do this however.


----------



## antikryst (Feb 26, 2011)

GranteedEV said:


> A resolving system can make the difference between even a higher quality (320CBR/VBR V.0) mp3 and a FLAC night and day with the right content material.
> 
> I don't think car systems can really be this resolving to be honest because of obvious issues. Headphones and GOOD high end home systems are able to do this however.


why not just use apple lossless? its as good as flac for me... plus it can be stored on an ipod and can be used with any HU with aux.

i also hate mp3s and would rather go AAC. with the same bit rate... AAC is just better.


----------



## GranteedEV (Oct 17, 2010)

antikryst said:


> i also hate mp3s and would rather go AAC. with the same bit rate... AAC is just better.


TBQH any HU with an aux is fine by me. I have an MP3 player that plays FLAC anyways.

I was just saying that there definitely IS an audible difference between lossless (ALAC, FLAC, CD) and lossy (mp3, ogm, aac) - in a car environment it's not a big enough one though.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

GranteedEV said:


> TBQH any HU with an aux is fine by me. I have an MP3 player that plays FLAC anyways.
> 
> I was just saying that there *definitely IS an audible difference *between lossless (ALAC, FLAC, CD) and lossy (mp3, ogm, aac) - in a car environment it's not a big enough one though.


In a properly conducted double blind comparison using a quality source and headphones on 99.9999% of the songs out there?

Because if seen otherwise on many test subject (who are knowledgeable respected hobbyist). Not one person could do any better then what would have resulted from random guessing.


----------



## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

i don't even care, fine with 128 mp3. as long as the HU has USB i'm happy


----------



## USCG Charger (Apr 21, 2011)

good info guys.


----------



## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

GranteedEV said:


> A resolving system can make the difference between even a higher quality (320CBR/VBR V.0) mp3 and a FLAC night and day with the right content material.


Spot on. In a home 2ch setup you would hear the difference between 320 mp3 and an original cd. The same applies to the car as well. Except 99% of the cars are not set up to be that revealing. You won't get there in a car w/o using a ton of dsp. So yes, if you are from the run everything flat school, in a car you won't hear a difference.



GranteedEV said:


> I don't think car systems can really be this resolving to be honest because of obvious issues.


Wrong. See above .

Hence an HU that allows playback of FLAC and has a ton of tuning features is the ideal combination.


----------



## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

I'd love to have a FLAC based unit, heck is take ALAC direct also. I get tired of having a cell and a joke to carry around


----------



## Cablguy184 (Oct 7, 2010)

I bought my HU from Walmart for $125.00 (it has USB and can read computer format CDs), Combined it with the Linear Power PA2 and XO3 ... Going on 3 years of Sound Quality competition with no problems ... And scores fairly damn good !!! Works Great in Demos ... Works good enough for me ... 










Thanks, Randal ...


----------



## sjg5359 (Mar 29, 2011)

antikryst said:


> i also hate mp3s and would rather go AAC. with the same bit rate... AAC is just better.


My HU plays AAC, going to have to try out and see if it makes a difference.


----------



## antikryst (Feb 26, 2011)

sjg5359 said:


> My HU plays AAC, going to have to try out and see if it makes a difference.


Try getting your favorite cd. Rip it yourself on mp3 and aac on different bit rates. Aac will always sound better. The sweet spot I have found for minimum bit rates would be 196 for AAC and 256 for mp3. 

But now I rip everything at 256 or 320 AAC.


----------



## eggyhustles (Sep 18, 2008)

antikryst said:


> Try getting your favorite cd. Rip it yourself on mp3 and aac on different bit rates. Aac will always sound better. The sweet spot I have found for minimum bit rates would be 196 for AAC and 256 for mp3.
> 
> But now I rip everything at 256 or 320 AAC.


try 244 v0 mp3


----------



## emoon3 (Apr 16, 2011)

All head units should support lossless, but until most consumers care more about their SQ, most won't.


----------



## cjj2d (Jun 28, 2005)

I would LOVE a FLAC compatible HU.

I currently do FLAC > DVDA conversion for 24 bit audios.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

cjj2d said:


> I would LOVE a FLAC compatible HU.
> 
> I currently do FLAC > DVDA conversion for 24 bit audios.


What specifically do you mean? You burn DVD-A disc using standard definition 16bit/44.1kHz FLAC files?


----------



## area51 (Sep 27, 2009)

I personally like FLAC, ALAC or anything lossless. Ever since I had the chance to do a comparison in my car I was hooked. IMO I can really hear a difference in the sound. If you download alot of compressed songs from iTunes and then hear a ALAC file you will hear a more crisp high not so booming bass. Just my 2 cents.

Here is a comparison between formats that's in another thread.



xanderin said:


> This CD is cool to see how much you personally hear differences in format.
> MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
> AAC320
> Apple Losses M4A
> MP3 @ 320


----------



## Ruleslawyer (Jun 15, 2011)

I don't care about flac so much in the car. Too high of a noise floor to worry about the small details. I want to rip my music into flac just so I don't have to handle the physical discs again. Transcode to the latest portable format whenever. I know I did ABX testing at home with headphones to determine my encoding rate for mobile and found about 300kps mp3 the limit before I did no better than chance on picking the right sample. The key to picking out stuff at higher bitrates has always been things like cymbals for me.


----------



## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

I would need a little more meat with my potatoes


----------



## Brian10962001 (Jul 11, 2009)

A very nice crossover, good EQ, and good USB support would be quite a bit more important to me than FLAC.


----------



## Lars Ulriched (Oct 31, 2009)

Original CDs always sounds better to me....


----------



## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Lars Ulriched said:


> Original CDs always sounds better to me....


Too the keys out from under my fingers. I would buy a headunit soley based on compact disc.:laugh:
Lossless is the way to do it though if you have to compromise.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Lars Ulriched said:


> Original CDs always sounds better to me....


Sucks to be you.


----------



## omegaslast (Nov 4, 2010)

eggyhustles said:


> Nope
> 
> I can't hear the difference between FLAC and a 244 v0 mp3


are you referencing spotify idgi


----------



## omegaslast (Nov 4, 2010)

Since i cant edit my post for arbitrary reasons



> *I'd rather have access to over 10 million 256-320kbps CBR MP3 tracks for $5 a month,* that I can make sample perfect recordings of to keep and play from wherever I choose. All legal and without ever having been uncompressed and recompressed during the recording process.
> 
> Although, I'd never cancel the subscription and keep the files, even though it is legal to do so. Seems morally wrong and EXTREMELY tight waded.


are you referencing spotify


----------



## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

My carPC handles all formats w/ease.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

omegaslast said:


> Since i cant edit my post for arbitrary reasons
> 
> 
> 
> are you referencing spotify


MOG, WMRecorder, and FLVexract. Set MOG to high quality download in the browser player window by holding down the M B W keys on your keyboard. Not on the newer beta explorer plugin or chrome app, on those you put the mouse over the left hand corner of the window and an "H" or "L" will appear. Click on it to change to "H" (ie high quality streams). It defaults to "L" every time you close the window, but lately L and H are still both the high quality streams. IOW words it makes not difference on there new explorer mog beta plugin. I can't say the same for the google chrome app though. There it might actually affect the quality.

Some more tips:

-Setting wmrecorder to high speed dubbing works with the same quality as streaming speed dubbing BUT it clips off like 5 sec. off the end of the recording. Stream speed, at least for me, only chops off a negligible amount. Just enough to take away those last couple of seconds of silence in most songs. 

-You'll have to buy a tagging software since the songs won't have any.

-The process is a big ol' pain in the butt. A typical album is a 30 minute process from start to complete tagged files on your device. 

-The software is not cheap either, $50 plus the price of the tagging software if you don't have one.

-There are other softwares that are much more plug and play and having tagging BUT they don't extract the mp3 from the .flv file, they re-record and either only re-compress to mp3 or they only save to a BIG WAV file. No point in going that route IMO. 

-Unless you really want or need to play from where ever, like playing the tracks on a head unit that only supports ipod and pandora app. Then I'd just pay $10 a month and use there mobile app on a compatible device. You'll be able to do almost everything you can from an ipod app and still be able to download or stream to that device in high quality. As many as you want, but IIRC you can only listen from one at a time though.


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

I would disagree with you on this. I can tell a huge difference between high-quality Flac and MP3 on my home setup. I tested this utilizing a basic MP-3 copy of Eagles Hell Freezes over, A standard 16 Bit Eagles Hell Freezes over CD, and a FLAC 24 192 Eagles Hell Freezes over digital copy from HD. I positioned myself in an exact Triangle in front of my Point source Speakers and performed a quick calabration on my onkyo before the test. While the MP3 sounded fine the staging was not that good. When I tested with the standard CD it did improve greatly and did what it should with the stage. The Flac 24 on the other hand staged great and was wider and deeper than the CD or MP3. I would assume proper setup and tuning in a car would yield the same results. That would be assuming you are utilizing a processor that can handle full format flac. 




dragonrage said:


> Neither can anyone else, though some of them will claim otherwise. Though I personally can't stand MP3 and would much rather have AAC or Ogg Vorbis...


----------



## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

I was thinking about a external player directly into my dsp:

Astell&Kern


----------



## Sulley (Dec 8, 2008)

Meh. I always convert my CDs & downloaded Flac's to Apple lossless with DBpoweramp. Import to iTunes & Transfer to my iPod. iPod to my 80prs, Never had an issue, file format is the least of my system worries.


----------



## THEDUKE (Aug 25, 2008)

Kenwood KMM-100U
Supports FLAC through USB.


----------



## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

FLAC and optical out from a double din.... thats all I ask for.... gets me all hot and bothered just thinking of it.


----------



## highspeed (May 4, 2012)

cruzinbill said:


> FLAC and optical out from a double din.... thats all I ask for.... gets me all hot and bothered just thinking of it.


Ha! Exactly what I'm thinking. Any high end source unit should support uncompressed digital. I have thousands of tracks I can't use in my truck


----------



## JuiceMan88 (Jun 13, 2012)

THEDUKE said:


> Kenwood KMM-100U
> Supports FLAC through USB.


Thanks for the info on that. Those can be had for less than $100 it seems.


----------



## sbaumbaugh (May 21, 2013)

antikryst said:


> why not just use apple lossless? its as good as flac for me... plus it can be stored on an ipod and can be used with any HU with aux.
> 
> i also hate mp3s and would rather go AAC. with the same bit rate... AAC is just better.


Agreed...

It would take quite and ear, well tuned system and a gallon of holy water for someone to hear the difference between FLAC and AAC...
In the car audio world...

The overall acoustic difference is so minimal it would go unnoticed...

320 gb hard drive seems to work pretty well currently...

Anything we convert goes through some type of compression.


----------



## CDT FAN (Jul 25, 2012)

t3sn4f2 said:


> I'd rather have access to over 10 million 256-320kbps CBR MP3 tracks for $5 a month, that I can make _sample perfect_ recordings of to keep and play from wherever I choose. All legal and without ever having been uncompressed and recompressed during the recording process.
> 
> Although, I'd never cancel the subscription and keep the files, even though it is legal to do so. Seems morally wrong and EXTREMELY tight waded.


What place is that? I've never tried any of the music websites like Pandora, but I've been thinking about it.


----------



## CDT FAN (Jul 25, 2012)

GranteedEV said:


> A resolving system can make the difference between even a higher quality (320CBR/VBR V.0) mp3 and a FLAC night and day with the right content material.
> 
> I don't think car systems can really be this resolving to be honest because of obvious issues. Headphones and GOOD high end home systems are able to do this however.


I never thought I could tell the difference between a 256 kbps file and a lossless version until I got a nice set of phones. There is enough of a difference that I have re-ripped some of my favorite stuff. Unfortunately, as good as my Pioneer 80prs sounds, it will only play up to 320 kbps.


----------



## CDT FAN (Jul 25, 2012)

eggyhustles said:


> try 244 v0 mp3


Never heard of it. What makes it special?


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

CDT FAN said:


> What place is that? I've never tried any of the music websites like Pandora, but I've been thinking about it.


MOG, and the software to high speed dub the digital bit stream (including tags excluding album art) is wmrecord. Use their desktop music app to record from and set wmrecord speed to the medium setting. And for mogs Hq album art, I go to their web based music app and save the art from their. You might be able to do it from the desktop app directly. I used to on my other PC, on my recent one it chrome based software doesn't give me a save link.


----------



## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

Only if it supports 192 khz 32 bit files.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Brian10962001 said:


> There is really no point in FLAC as far as head units go. It takes up nearly as much space as an actual cd. You can take a FLAC copy, burn it to a CD and have an exact copy of that CD... OR just play the cd.


check your facts Digital audio compressed by FLAC's algorithm can typically be reduced to 50–60% of its original size.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

TrickyRicky said:


> Yeah but a blu ray are 40G's and the size of a disc. While a hard drive might be bigger. But thats just my thinking.



FYI Blue rays standard capacity is 25 and 50 Gb for dual layer. 


approximately 70CD, flac takes half, 140 cd in flac quality on one disk I`d take that over usb drive.


----------



## jdhun (Jan 10, 2011)

Please somebody make a HU that plays Hi Res FLAC files with an optical output....

I currently use a WD Media Player in the car and send the optical out straight into the Bit One. 

You really need to listen to it to appreciate it!


----------



## Weklim (Jun 27, 2013)

Brian10962001 said:


> There is really no point in FLAC as far as head units go. It takes up nearly as much space as an actual cd. You can take a FLAC copy, burn it to a CD and have an exact copy of that CD... OR just play the cd.


Point 1 : It takes 50-60% of the data and a whole lot less PHYSICAL SPACE.

Point 2 : A lot of people's home audio collections are in .FLAC and converting it to 320 and keeping two copies up to date of your whole collection or taking all your CDs with you is inconvenient to say the least. 

Point 3 : You can't shuffle a CD collection by genre, artist, etc.


----------



## Earzbleed (Feb 10, 2013)

My H/U plays .wav files. Phuck Phlac. Who needs it.


----------



## Weklim (Jun 27, 2013)

A lot of headunits play .wav but not > 320 kbps, also why would anyone use .wav over .flac when given the choice?


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Weklim said:


> A lot of headunits play .wav but not > 320 kbps, also why would anyone use .wav over .flac when given the choice?


WAV as it pertains to this discussion is 1411 kbps, no less.


----------



## Nothingface5384 (Jul 8, 2013)

t3sn4f2 said:


> WAV as it pertains to this discussion is 1411 kbps, no less.


He must of had max mp3 bitrate on his mind 

fact is best lossy codec is ogg vorbis
best Lossless is .flac though .ape has it beat slightly on compression, but .ape is extremely slow in ripping and cant be streamed and not open source 

if I could make this work in a system I'd say screw cds/dvds
BuyDig.com - Western Digital My Passport 2 TB USB 3.0 High Capacity Portable Hard Drive w/ Backup Black


----------



## Nothingface5384 (Jul 8, 2013)

Theres also portable Wifi harddrives too that'll stream music to compatible wifi components..I wonder if theires one that does the same but through bluetooth?


----------



## Sadus (Sep 8, 2011)

Pretty much what smartphones do right? With something like Subsonic you can access your home library -> internet -> phone -> bluetooth -> headunit. I think it does on the fly compression of FLAC though I don't think it streams the full thing but I could be wrong, not sure what the limits of bluetooth are either.


----------



## dobslob (Sep 19, 2011)

I would, but only if it output them digitally, and at full bit rate.


----------



## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

The DAC and transport/preamp capabilities are the most important aspects of a deck for sound quality. 

I tried Flac files, they do very well. But if you actually going to gain anything by using flac the deck has to have a good DAC and internals so you can take full advantage of those files. Otherwise you might as well just use mp3s and save even more space... 

So many of the decks out there are hit or miss for SQ... If all your media is in flac format at least take the time and demo different flac capable decks and see which you like. My two cents. But we all have different goals.


----------



## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

Side note, are any of the new decks coming equipped with on-board hard drives?
That seems like a logical route for people who have a lot of media. 

Or any that support external HD's around 1 TB capacity?


----------



## Beckerson1 (Jul 3, 2012)

WestCo said:


> Side note, are any of the new decks coming equipped with on-board hard drives?
> That seems like a logical route for people who have a lot of media.
> 
> Or any that support external HD's around 1 TB capacity?


Well I haven't tested a TB but I used a 500GB HDD and right now 250GB SSD. Format to FAT32 and you should be good. Not saying every HU will support such a format. You need to consult your manual to make sure 

Keep in mind the USB out of the HU can only support so much power wise. I ran a 500ma external HDD with no issue on my Pioneer 80PRS. Right now the SSD runs at a little under 250ma.


----------



## ccapehart1980 (Aug 6, 2013)

unless you got tube amp or amps and some rediculously exp speakers to go with 
flac or any other lossless audio codec is kinda piontless tube amps put expensive home theater systems to shame

one of my old bosses had a like 20k mcintosh tube amp setup along with some speakers i never heard of the sound was the best ive ever heard


----------



## RaptorHunter (Feb 5, 2013)

My audio gear isn't that great to begin with so I doubt that it would make any SQ difference. I not planing on upgrades either already spent a small fortune on Audio gear due to Shipping fees and Importation Taxes.


----------



## MADXF (Jun 30, 2010)

I used to think that flac was the be-all end-all for car audio, but then I got a JVC that plays wav and realised the amount of music I can fit on a 32b usb stick is most often more than I care to listen to. 
add to that a lot of music I listen to isn't exactly what you would call 'SQ' anyway so there's no great loss to have it ripped in 320 MP3.
A few albums I've had in flac/wav I couldn't hear enough of a difference over 320 mp3 to warrant the extra size, and it didn't take away from the enjoyment of the music in the end. 

After all it's about enjoying the music right?


*EDIT* One thing that does bug me about playing wav off a USB is that gapless songs are no longer gapless. 
I don't know if that's the case for all units, but it certainly is for mine. (JVC R926BT)


----------



## IbizaOnAcid (Dec 22, 2009)

THEDUKE said:


> Kenwood KMM-100U
> Supports FLAC through USB.


Even Crutchfield has this deck for $79.99 right now. Sheeeitt!


----------



## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

> How many of you would buy a head unit based solely on FLAC


I would have 3-4 years ago, before I was forced to convert my entire collection to Apple Lossless due to lack of support for FLAC. Ever since, I've loved my 160GB iPod Classic -> USB setup, although it is filling up gradually.


----------



## womble (Oct 26, 2012)

Zippy said:


> Only if it supports 192 khz 32 bit files.


Good point.. but thats less about the FLAC than about the DAC surely?



MADXF said:


> I used to think that flac was the be-all end-all for car audio, but then I got a JVC that plays wav and realised the amount of music I can fit on a 32b usb stick is most often more than I care to listen to.


This is an excellent point, and has had me rethinking my stance to FLAC dramatically, for the first time in years.

I've been using FLAC since 2006 when I ripped my collection. Back then storage was expensive, so FLAC made hundreds of dollars of sense.

Now, storage is dirt cheap - 1TB external laptop drive (for low power draw via usb) for less than $100 will store 1400 albums in WAV format. Back then, saving 50% of the disk space was financially worth it, now, the format playback is a pain and the storage is easy.

Epiphany time - rather than waiting for FLAC-capable devices, I could just go buy a (large) external drive, convert all my FLAC's to WAV, and plug it into pretty much any head unit that has a usb slot and a decent DAC in it.

WAV can be tagged, will play on pretty much anything, and only have double the storage requirement of FLAC, which isn't a large cost anymore.

Time to load up a spare 500Gb drive with tagged WAV's in a folder hierarchy and head to the local car audio place to do some tests


----------



## Jedclampet (Jun 28, 2010)

The point should not be can it play FLAC but can it play Hi Rez files 24/96 up to 24/192 and perhaps even DSD that is just becoming available. I have these Hi Rez files and SACD an DVDA at home and they sound great and would love to be able to play them in my car. Astell and Kern, Sony and Hifi Man make portable players that support Hi Rez and I would assume more are coming.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed


----------



## Earzbleed (Feb 10, 2013)

t3sn4f2 said:


> 24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed


Great link t3. I use 24/96 for mixing/mastering then export it in 16/32 and I can't hear a lick-a-**** difference on my hd600's.
Here's another:16/44 vs 24/192 Experiment - Blogs - Computer Audiophile


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Earzbleed said:


> Great link t3. I use 24/96 for mixing/mastering then export it in 16/32 and I can't hear a lick-a-**** difference on my hd600's.
> Here's another:16/44 vs 24/192 Experiment - Blogs - Computer Audiophile


Nice one, here's one from AES.


"[Engineering Report] Claims both published and anecdotal are regularly made for audibly superior sound quality for two-channel audio encoded with longer word lengths and/or at higher sampling rates than the 16-bit/44.1-kHz CD standard. The authors report on a series of double-blind tests comparing the analog output of high-resolution players playing high-resolution recordings with the same signal passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz “bottleneck.” The tests were conducted for over a year using different systems and a variety of subjects. The systems included expensive professional monitors and one high-end system with electrostatic loudspeakers and expensive components and cables. The subjects included professional recording engineers, students in a university recording program, and dedicated audiophiles. The test results show that the CD-quality A/D/A loop was undetectable at normal-to-loud listening levels, by any of the subjects, on any of the playback systems. The noise of the CD-quality loop was audible only at very elevated levels."


https://secure.aes.org/forum/pubs/journal/?ID=2
BAS Experiment Explanation page - Oct 2007


----------



## THEDUKE (Aug 25, 2008)

Coming Soon
Double Din Touch Screen with Bluetooth and Navigation. Three High Voltage Preouts. DSP with time alignment and EQ. Will Play FLAC files from USB or DVD/CD drive.


----------



## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

THEDUKE said:


> Coming Soon
> Double Din Touch Screen with Bluetooth and Navigation. Three High Voltage Preouts. DSP with time alignment and EQ. Will Play FLAC files from USB or DVD/CD drive.


And who makes that?


----------



## THEDUKE (Aug 25, 2008)

Will be shown at CES.


----------



## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

THEDUKE said:


> Will be shown at CES.


Why wouldn't you just tell us? Are you an insider?


----------



## caraudioworld (Sep 18, 2013)

t3sn4f2 said:


> I'd rather have access to over 10 million 256-320kbps CBR MP3 tracks for $5 a month, that I can make _sample perfect_ recordings of to keep and play from wherever I choose. All legal and without ever having been uncompressed and recompressed during the recording process.
> 
> Although, I'd never cancel the subscription and keep the files, even though it is legal to do so. Seems morally wrong and EXTREMELY tight waded.


any service can offer this? grooveshark premium? I am looking for something like that, a decent quality, legal, cheap...


----------



## kapone (Sep 22, 2009)

I'd love to see manufacturers focus more on _connectivity _as well. 

Most people these days are running atleast one computer in their house, if not more. It is trivial to setup a file server with a decent sized storage capacity on these computers and home network connectivity in the US, while worse than other parts of the world, is totally adequate for streaming audio if not video. If you have Fios, you're golden.

4G LTE and other variants are becoming commonplace these days as well. And so is mobile hotspot functionality in cellphones. If the Head-units had WiFi....they could easily stream STRAIGHT from your house, in whatever format tickles your pickle, without having to lug USB sticks, hard drives or whatnot.

Yes, Bluetooth is an option, but it's really not that convenient, when you have to fiddle with your phone to do things while driving. There is no reason that the user interface in modern head-units can't handle Albums/folders with files straight over WiFi.


----------



## tripanazomi_1 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hello , 


JVC has some new Double DIN units which can play FLAC from USB with NAV, DVD, Bluetooth capabilities
F1 status can play FLAC on DVD disks ( one of the best IMO)
Audison will relase ( in CES) BitPLAYHD ( hope with iphone controlled) 
Bluetooth Aptx can handle FLAC , i.e from your andreoid samsung ( ipad dont have aptx) you can run FLAC files to Bluetooth and then can have optical out ( Havent seen aptx lossless unit till today only aptx units are available with 30-50 USD/unit ). also you need be max 3 feet away from bluetooth unit.
Think, One should concantrate more on how to transport the sound rather then playing FLAC which can be handled by many players nowadays even with optical out option.
I already have FLAC processing as follows which is better then CD -Audio

FLAC files on external HDD --> WD live optical out---> bitone optical in ---> 2 X Thesis Amplifer (digital in) ---> speakers.
Same song I converted from CD to FLAC 16/44 ; FLAC sound was obviously better/large/present/detailed then my Pioneer Double ( AVIC -940) playing the original CD track. Also had the same result with Alpine 9835

you also need referance speakers and lineer amps to enjoy the hi res file.

summary ; 
There is no reason for any unit to play FLAC unless you are not going to transport it at referance level.

The ideal unit to play FLAC should transport the sound in digital without touching/processing/converting/downsampling and should have digital outs for futher processing.


----------



## ECLIPSEsqfan (Sep 2, 2007)

FLAC is not "better" than CD. It is the SAME. 
Uncompressed digital files are uncompressed digital files no matter how you spin it.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

caraudioworld said:


> any service can offer this? grooveshark premium? I am looking for something like that, a decent quality, legal, cheap...


MOG music subscription using their desktop PC app in combination with "WM Recorder" bit perfect capture software.

You can also use their mobile app for $10 a month that lets you download to the mobile device. Downside is the files only play from their app which is somewhat limited IMO.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

ECLIPSEsqfan said:


> FLAC is not "better" than CD. It is the SAME.
> Uncompressed digital files are uncompressed digital files no matter how you spin it.


^^x2


----------



## THEDUKE (Aug 25, 2008)

kapone said:


> I'd love to see manufacturers focus more on _connectivity _as well.
> 
> Most people these days are running atleast one computer in their house, if not more. It is trivial to setup a file server with a decent sized storage capacity on these computers and home network connectivity in the US, while worse than other parts of the world, is totally adequate for streaming audio if not video. If you have Fios, you're golden.
> 
> ...


Just carry your own server with you.


----------



## kapone (Sep 22, 2009)

THEDUKE said:


> Just carry your own server with you.


er...that would be a lil difficult....










The top half is all computer stuff, bottom half is amps. 96TB in space at present.


----------



## tripanazomi_1 (Jan 12, 2012)

ECLIPSEsqfan said:


> FLAC is not "better" than CD. It is the SAME.
> Uncompressed digital files are uncompressed digital files no matter how you spin it.


Hello ,

maybe I was not clear enough ( sorry for my English)

You are correct , FLAC 16/44 is the same as CD

Lets say you run a CD or FLAC file on a both capabale head unit then you are limited to DAC level of this unit. So running FLAC or CD doesnt matter on the same unit.

However, if you are not running a referance cd transport i.e. F1 status / Pioner combo type etc and using a Double Din pioneer / Alpine / OEM unit etc ( which is most of the case) then optical out Flac from a media player as being same with referance Cd trasport will be better on any given sunday.


----------



## PsyCLown (May 17, 2013)

Personally I think running FLAC in a car audio system would be a bit of a waste more often than not. I am not sure that most people have cars with sound good enough to rival a high end Hi-Fi setup and to justify playing FLAC over say 320Kbps MP3.
I feel as if it is more work and effort to get your car to the same level as a fully treated high end Hi-Fi system than it would be to get an average room and system to that level.

I am not going to sit in my car and critically listen to music, try and compare how articulate, natural, flat and transparent the system and its sound stage is compared to other crazy priced systems. I am not going to make use of snake skin cables and try hear the difference between them either. I do not feel as if a car is the right environment for that, I personally think it is far from ideal. If the car is standing still and not started, it sure helps a lot. Although even as soon as you start the car I feel as if the engine noise will more than likely start to influence things if you are taking sound quality to that level.

The only time when I think purchasing a headunit *JUST* for the FLAC support would be if it were somehow more convenient.


----------



## ECLIPSEsqfan (Sep 2, 2007)

tripanazomi_1 said:


> Hello ,
> 
> maybe I was not clear enough ( sorry for my English)
> 
> ...


Now I understand what you meant. Thank you for the clarification. 




PsyCLown said:


> ...
> The only time when I think purchasing a headunit *JUST* for the FLAC support would be if it were somehow *more convenient.*


I think this is the key here. Much simpler to have a small drive with high quality files than to carry around a large case of discs.


----------



## PsyCLown (May 17, 2013)

ECLIPSEsqfan said:


> I think this is the key here. Much simpler to have a small drive with high quality files than to carry around a large case of discs.


True, although once again. Are you able to hear a difference in your car system?

I guess even if its the placebo effect you still want to be happy and you want to have peace of mind that its not the source media causing issues or lowering the quality.

If your media collection is all in FLAC it is a lot easier to just copy it to a flash drive than have to re-encode all the files as well.


----------



## ECLIPSEsqfan (Sep 2, 2007)

In my system, well, it is not as fancy as many others and it has no real tuning, so no.
However, The difference between 128 and 320 .mp3's is night and day.
The difference between 320 and higher, I couldn't tell you. That is left to better ears than mine. 

I will say though that the majority of my music collection is in .FLAC format, so having the ability to just rip it to a small drive without re-encoding would be nice.


----------



## Nothingface5384 (Jul 8, 2013)

they do have usb Hard drives now that stream music to devices


----------



## a390st (Nov 11, 2013)

One reason I went with the 80prs was because it will play wav files from SD card/usb. Alpine decks wouldn't play wav or lossless from USB, and I have a big collection of wav files. I had already ripped all my cd's to my hdd as wav and didn't want to have to convert.


----------



## THEDUKE (Aug 25, 2008)

mires said:


> And who makes that?


Kenwood will have various DoubleDin models which will play FLAC files.


----------



## Mike Bober (Apr 11, 2013)

Pioneer announced a few new Flac playing car Stereos at CES 2014 today. and a few other features.

FLAC file support – first in the industry to support internal decoding and playback of FLAC “lossless” digital audio

Dual Camera Inputs (AVIC models) – enable users to add a reverse (rear facing) camera and additional front facing or other view applications camera

Built-in Auto EQ and Time Alignment provides tailored audio adjustments specifically for the car and user preference

13-Band Graphic Equalizer with touch panel swipe setting and built-in high/low pass crossover with adjustable points and slopes

Customizable User Interface – for adjusting color themes, background images, clock display preferences, and source shortcuts for quick access and convenience

Larger icons and display for ease of use

Dual USB Inputs


----------



## ZeblodS (Nov 4, 2009)

With FLAC support and TOSLink output, yeah sur.

But I am currently using a carPC for this usage, it allows me to do some sound processing as well (phase correction with a FIR crossover using Foobar Convolver) before my external DSP.


----------



## ShaneInMN (Sep 27, 2013)

I'd like FLAC support, but I have ripped most of my CD's to 320k CBR MP3's and really dont hear any difference compared to the CD playback. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Have a 128GB usb drive plugged into my HU, holds far more music than I care to scroll through even encoded at 320k. FLAC is pretty feasable with these larger sized USB drives.

If you can hear a difference between FLAC and 320k CBR, by all means.


----------



## xeraxes (Jan 4, 2014)

I'd definitely buy a HU that has good FLAC support along with other features that I'm looking for. I have some studio monitors at home and even though it's subtle, I can hear the difference between 320kbs MP3 and FLAC on those speakers. However, the difference between the two sources would probably be even less when you're driving and injecting more noise into your car interior.


----------



## WinWiz (Sep 25, 2013)

I think the only thing that would make me sell my precious Pio 80-PRS would be a head unit with similar features but better quality buttons and a manufacturer who actively supported opensource firmware...
Try think about the almost endless possibilities with open mod. friendly firmware!

By the way, does any of the processor brands support opensource??


----------



## Arcrux (Mar 18, 2013)

If i could get a head unit with SPDIF out and FLAC support, that would be one godly head unit! Would buy even if it was $1000.

Uncompressed FLAC down SPDIF to a processor would be amazing, in the meantime, I guess we all have to settle for WAV and its ****ty metadata support


----------



## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

THEDUKE said:


> Kenwood will have various DoubleDin models which will play FLAC files.


All of the 2014 DNN* / DNX* / DDX* models support flac.


----------



## Freedom First (May 17, 2010)

Chaos said:


> All of the 2014 DNN* / DNX* / DDX* models support flac.


Where did you find that information? The only info I could find (on kenwood.com) shows support only for mp3, wma, aac-lc, and wav, on any of their upper-end models.

I'd be all over a head that can play flac, and supports the use of external hard drives.


----------



## THEDUKE (Aug 25, 2008)

Chaos said:


> All of the 2014 DNN* / DNX* / DDX* models support flac.


That is not correct. Not all models will support FLAC. Below are the models that will not do FLAC.

DDX771
DDX491HD
DDX271
DDX371
DDDX471HD

All other models in the DNN, DNX and DDX will do FLAC.


----------



## Arete (Oct 6, 2013)

I use Apple lossless files on an IPod Classic. I believe there is more support for this file type. Someone may have mentioned this already. I believe the file extension is .alac 

I download FLAC then convert and put on IPod.


----------



## mendopell (May 28, 2015)

Oh yeah. I'd buy a hu based solely on Flac in a heartbeat ! I just had to go android tablet build route, in order to listen to my music ... all Flac. 
What I'd really like to see is a head unit with full DSP and playing all formats.


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Arete said:


> I use Apple lossless files on an IPod Classic. I believe there is more support for this file type. Someone may have mentioned this already. I believe the file extension is .alac
> 
> I download FLAC then convert and put on IPod.



The file extension for Apple Lossless is .m4a


ALAC is simply an acronym for Apple Lossless Audio Codec.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bilbo6209 (Oct 12, 2015)

I bought a Clarion vx-404 specifically due to its ability to play the broadest varity of digital formats and encoding bit rates. In my case I have thousands of FLAC files in my collection at home and I didn't want to have to convert them to different formats or bit rates to play in my car and my finacee's car so I simply wanted a deck that would play anything I threw at it. 

The clarion has other issues and I will be replacing it with a different solution in my current car when I build my new system (I have to get rid of the current circa 2005 Alpine slide out 6" dvd touch screen system and factory speakers!!!) So during the planning process I will also be planning on a good single din head unit and a slide out 7" or so android tablet if possible (this will control a Raspberry pi that will have a digital out and at least one external USB drive filled with digital music files that is connected to the DSP).


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Take FLAC files, pull into XLD and convert to ALAC and dump to iTunes.. Done. Makes it moot. SubterFUSE thanks for the tip.


----------



## bilbo6209 (Oct 12, 2015)

Babs said:


> Take FLAC files, pull into XLD and convert to ALAC and dump to iTunes.. Done. Makes it moot. SubterFUSE thanks for the tip.


that is if you have any apple products! I personally dont have a single Aple product in my house


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

bilbo6209 said:


> that is if you have any apple products! I personally dont have a single Aple product in my house


Or convert to a different format the head unit likes.. wav perhaps.. with converter of choice.


----------



## bilbo6209 (Oct 12, 2015)

Babs said:


> Or convert to a different format the head unit likes.. wav perhaps.. with converter of choice.


Also anytime you re-encode a file you will loose some quality! this is even more true when changing bitrates... If you are looking for something to have a bit rate of 192, and you have source that is 256 there are going to be times when the bits don't line up and you will end up with a blank bit on the new file. the less re-encoding you do the better sound you will have. 

In my case I spend all day working on compute software and really don't want to have to take the time to convert files to a specific format that 1 device out of my entire household of devices needs.... I would much rather spend a bit more money or do a bit more research and find the correct product for my car that will play anything I throw at it  

But in my case the Clarion I purchased will play ANYTHING i throw at it, but it had several other flaws that will make me replace it, this is why I'm going to be going to an Raspberry Pi based player that will connect to the DSP via Optical for playback, I can update software anytime, I don't need to wait for Apple, Clarion etc to come up with a solution for a new media format or encoding.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Seeing Pioneer adding FLAC it appears at least it's catching on. Me? I just throw them into XLD on the iMac then add to iTunes library. Works like a champ. Yes it's difficult to escape the iCult of iTunes but it works. Can't say it's losing any music information or not but the many tracks I've done with this sound equally as bitrate-full as any disk I've ripped to lossless. However I'm not even sure what the max bitrate I can send the 80PRS from an iPhone 6, or what the 80PRS will accept. I imagine your gear (head unit and DSP) will accept as far as high-rez is concerned. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bilbo6209 (Oct 12, 2015)

Babs said:


> Seeing Pioneer adding FLAC it appears at least it's catching on. Me? I just throw them into XLD on the iMac then add to iTunes library. Works like a champ. Yes it's difficult to escape the iCult of iTunes but it works. Can't say it's losing any music information or not but the many tracks I've done with this sound equally as bitrate-full as any disk I've ripped to lossless. However I'm not even sure what the max bitrate I can send the 80PRS from an iPhone 6, or what the 80PRS will accept. I imagine your gear (head unit and DSP) will accept as far as high-rez is concerned.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


Ya when I bought the Clarion it would play all bitrates of flac and mp3 I could possibly find. And at least in mid range gear it was the only HU I could find that supported the higher bitrates of FLAC. Granted this was a couple years ago and i'm sure there are others out there now  

As far as converting FLAC to other formats, if you are starting with high bitrates and converting to high bitrates of another format you wont lose any decernable clarity etc, but you might and most likely will lose a small amount the biggest concern is converting multiple times. 

With all digital music you need to find what works for you, some people prefer to carry around a portable player so they can listed at work etc, I have music on my PC at work and play it through a tube based digital audio converter through mid line (SE 535) Shure in ear monitors. So to me portability isn't an issue and personally I don't want to have to remember yet another device/item to play my music  When I get teh Raspberry Pi set up it will have 2 drives attached, so I can add music to one and if I forget it its not the end of the wold because I will still have the other  not to mention hopefully audio books on a flash drive/sd of some sort to play through the HU  I want to have everything in the car and not portable, but for me that works better, for some that won't be as convenient it just works good in my situation


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Should I go a different route I'll be bypassing these antiquated head units altogether since they seem so hell-bent on still using RCA's and propietary interfaces and few other petty gripes I have, and going with device in-dash straight digi to the DSP. Having found an extremely solid solution for that via another apple product (HDMI AV adaptor) it's just too inviting. It just requires the DSP remote (RUX or Helix remote or Director etc) for volume control. As far as radio.. Don't miss it. My antenna hasn't been connected in over a month.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

bilbo6209 said:


> Also anytime you re-encode a file you will loose some quality! this is even more true when changing bitrates... If you are looking for something to have a bit rate of 192, and you have source that is 256 there are going to be times when the bits don't line up and you will end up with a blank bit on the new file. the less re-encoding you do the better sound you will have.
> 
> In my case I spend all day working on compute software and really don't want to have to take the time to convert files to a specific format that 1 device out of my entire household of devices needs.... I would much rather spend a bit more money or do a bit more research and find the correct product for my car that will play anything I throw at it
> 
> But in my case the Clarion I purchased will play ANYTHING i throw at it, but it had several other flaws that will make me replace it, this is why I'm going to be going to an Raspberry Pi based player that will connect to the DSP via Optical for playback, I can update software anytime, I don't need to wait for Apple, Clarion etc to come up with a solution for a new media format or encoding.


FWIW, there is absolutely no loss of quality when going from any lossless or uncompressed format to any lossless or uncompressed format. No matter how many times you do it. 

Try it for yourself. Start with a raw WAV convert it to whatever lossless format you choose (I've done it with ALAC). Do that back and forth as many times as you want. Then import the first WAV and last WAV conversion in Foobar and do a bit compare (a Foobar plugin needed). They will show to be the same file.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> FWIW, there is absolutely no loss of quality when going from any lossless or uncompressed format to any lossless or uncompressed format. No matter how many times you do it.
> 
> Try it for yourself. Start with a raw WAV convert it to whatever lossless format you choose (I've done it with ALAC). Do that back and forth as many times as you want. Then import the first WAV and last WAV conversion in Foobar and do a bit compare (a Foobar plugin needed). They will show to be the same file.


Reassuring!


----------



## Makky (Nov 15, 2014)

I really need an HU with native FLAC/lossless support. I hope the successors to 80 and 99PRS will have this.


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Makky said:


> I really need an HU with native FLAC/lossless support. I hope the successors to 80 and 99PRS will have this.



Doubt there will be successors to those. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Makky (Nov 15, 2014)

Babs said:


> Doubt there will be successors to those.
> 
> 
> Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


Why do you think so : 0?


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Makky said:


> Why do you think so : 0?



Because they're rolling up active-based DSP's into 2-dins which are selling better, and the market for high-end AKM DAC's, amp-less and 4 output pairs for a 3-way plus sub believe it or not is actually quite small. Even though the 99RS was in 1/3 of the SQ cars at the last meet I attended.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Makky (Nov 15, 2014)

Babs said:


> Because they're rolling up active-based DSP's into 2-dins which are selling better, and the market for high-end AKM DAC's, amp-less and 4 output pairs for a 3-way plus sub believe it or not is actually quite small. Even though the 99RS was in 1/3 of the SQ cars at the last meet I attended.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Well as long as there will be a 2 din touch unit that will provide as much SQ thorough DAC, EQ, TA features I'd be fine with that. A touch 'PRS' would probably be not that bad...easier to find the song you want : P


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Makky said:


> Well as long as there will be a 2 din touch unit that will provide as much SQ thorough DAC, EQ, TA features I'd be fine with that. A touch 'PRS' would probably be not that bad...easier to find the song you want : P



It's good on paper however even the most full featured 2-dins (currently) only will process a 2-way plus sub in terms of crossover, and EQ is typically extremely limited. I think they still only have a global EQ which isn't even left/right independent, which is crucial in car. 

Solution is get yourself a kickin 2-din with FLAC capability and feed an outboard DSP and call it done. I'm running the 80PRS completely unprocessed as I can to a Helix DSP for example. I convert my FLAC tunes to ALAC in XLD (on a Mac) then dump them to phone. Works like a champ. 

If I ran from iPad to HDMI to optical to DSP, a head unit actually is unnecessary at that point entirely. Planning on that for the truck build. iPad mini dash install. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Makky (Nov 15, 2014)

Babs said:


> It's good on paper however even the most full featured 2-dins (currently) only will process a 2-way plus sub in terms of crossover, and EQ is typically extremely limited. I think they still only have a global EQ which isn't even left/right independent, which is crucial in car.
> 
> Solution is get yourself a kickin 2-din with FLAC capability and feed an outboard DSP and call it done. I'm running the 80PRS completely unprocessed as I can to a Helix DSP for example. I convert my FLAC tunes to ALAC in XLD (on a Mac) then dump them to phone. Works like a champ.
> 
> ...


Very nice. Looking forward to seeing your build : )


----------



## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Makky said:


> Very nice. Looking forward to seeing your build : )


Me too.. It's gonna be a while for the truck.. However I will be doing a slick Bing-style HDMI audio extractor harness setup for bypassing the head unit in the car for direct-to-DSP tunes. If that works out pretty good, the Head Unit will become kinda the "auxiliary" source via RCA's.


----------



## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

I have opened a New thread with a list of HU's that can play FLAC and apt-x BT too... 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...263761-head-units-apt-x-flac-player-list.html


----------



## Pariah Zero (Mar 23, 2016)

I wouldn't bother with FLAC (or any lossless format). It's snake oil. (So is 24 bit / 96+ kHz, for that matter)

The bit rates & compression algorithms used by iTunes, Spotify, Slacker, and Pandora are well past the point of being transparent (indistinguishable from the original).

If you're worried about digital audio sounding bad, learn about the loudness war. The short version: audio engineers are told to make the recording sound louder: So the average loudness is as close to 0 dBFS as possible (the maximum loudness of a digital recording).

Nearly all of the dynamic range is lost, and even the "pure" 24/96 master sounds like crap. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

...how are these threads floating up to the top all the time? Polls?


----------



## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Hanatsu said:


> ...how are these threads floating up to the top all the time? Polls?


Yep, voting in the polls bumps them up.


----------

