# From Camry To Scion. Here we go.



## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Hey all. So the Camry finally let me down. I tore into that car so hard. Need speaker vents? Cut a hole? Want to try something crazy? Rip out half the interior? Acoustic foam on all surfaces? Sure why the hell not. It was my first real car. I loved it to death, but its time to move on. I always told everyone that i'd drive it till it left me on the side of the road and it did just that. Multiple times. So I got some funds together and got a new car. Here's my new baby. 6 speed manual 2011 Scion TC

















Its a reconstructed/totaled title so i got it for a good deal. Unfortunately, that means its got its hiccups. So far the engine and body have been reliable but the work that was done elsewhere is shady as ****. It was some random guy on the ****ty side of town who did the work. Meh. First off. I had to get rid of those plastidip wheels and OH BOY OH BOY WAS THAT A ****INGGGGGGG ADVENTURE.

























Far far better imo.

Next up was a look through the car to see what other shady **** was done. Found this. That's the window cleaner sprayer on the carbon fiber hood. Pretty sure its gorilla glue all over it. So ill need to fix that. The back seat is missing a large link that connects it and there are random ass bolts all over the place. The seat still looks good and functions well. I've pulled a few panels and there are missing clips as well. Other than those things. Everything seems alright. Just some dumb bs to fix but nothing drastic.








The doors on this car is absolutely massive..and completely built for a SQ build. Just look at this, its like a third of the car!
















I may end up building some fully custom, ground up door panels for it at some point but for now. I'll roll with what i got. 

Just a quick look through the car and the room i have available for stereo stuff. First pic(ignore circle) is of Gen1 version of this cars dash and what it looks like with all the useless crap tore out. From some reading, it looks like the 2nd gen(mine) is the sameish platform but a little bit wider. 2nd pic is my cars dash now. I'd be willing to bet that if i dug into the dash. i could find more than a enough room for a shallow mount subwoofer enclosure. 2nd picture is my current dash.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

After I looked over the Scion. It was time to tear into the Camry and pull everything out. So here's a final farewell to that ****show.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

The collection, minus all the massive fire hose wire i pulled out.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I took off the back quarter panel and look at all this room! ...and horrible **** CLD that i get to tear off.























I didn't get any pics of it but brake cleaner took all that brown stuff right off. Note, brake cleaner immediately melts the white silicone beads that manufacturers use in their cars. 

I started to look for where i can put subwoofers as they are the biggest component in a system and generally you need to plan your system around their location. I have my two Fi ib3 15'' sitting around now. I looked around the vehicle on where i could possible use them. The back trunk area is completely flat. There isn't a spare tire "well" to speak of. That kind of sucks because tire wells make really easy to hide fiberglass enclosures for subs. I looked at cutting a hole where the spare tire is now and making an IB configuration but i ran into a bit of a problem...the exhaust pipe and muffler go down the vehicle and for WHATEVER reason, shoot directly underneath the hatch trunk. That metal piece you see in the middle. Thats the heatshield directly under the spare tire. So i couldn't vent a IB sub without most likely melting the damn cone. ****.









So what are my options? My thought is this. I could very easily built fiberglass enclosures into those quarter panels and put two shallow mount subs into them. Most likely a Sundown Sd3 in each panel. I might possibly do 1 in the back left. 1 in the back right, and 1 in the dash...but thats a lot of custom work and i am not really ready to cut into this car that much yet. I am going to take my time and make sure this car turns out as beautiful and clean as possible. Amp wise. I have my Wolfram 3k which is a monster and i don't have an alternator in this car to support that, plus two possibly 3 separate subs in different locations is going to kinda screw me on T/a situation. I have the dsp channels, just not the amp channels. 

Thats all for now. I'll update as i get more into it.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Good on ya!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I got the horns in today. Having put them in the Camry before, i understood the process of mounting them a lot easier. Just stick your head under the dash. Find factory mount points, see where you want the horn to sit and start fabricating and bending steel flat bar till its where you want it. Lots of vice/hammer and back n forth here.
























I had to dremel down this piece so the steel flat bar would sit flat on the factory mounting location.

Thank god for this tool. I had to cut away some of the kick panel plastic so that the horn would fit which left a nice hole for mounting. Put in a threaded rivet and wala, mounting location. 


























Ill make some beauty panel tomorrow to hide it all. Will most likely wrap it in suede or something. Probably going to inset some magnets and make a quick and easy on/off cover.


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## farfromovin (Mar 30, 2011)

If the exhaust came straight out the back on the passenger side, instead of jogging over to the driver side, that would open up space to weld a “sub box” in underneath the floor in the trunk.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I started off with this design but decided i wanted the exits of the horn to be more free on all 3 sides. So i switched to two pieces of wood and just let the metal grill be the binding part. Its a little wobbly but does the job. I inset the mounting bolts on the horn to be flush and then drilled 1/4in into the horn body and glued magnets into it/ wood piece. So it just snaps on and off with magnets, easy peasy. 






































































As for the notch on the kick panels. I'll take off the cloth and do a layer or two fiberglass cloth so it covers the cut out part of the kick panel. I am just not going to bust out the FG material and until i have other FG projects to do at the same time.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Nice work....I'm in for the shag on the doors !!! JK/LOL


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

seafish said:


> Nice work....I'm in for the shag on the doors !!! JK/LOL


Im seriously thinking about it. Maybe on the back hatch area.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

And also some around the woofer so that you can see the shag dance to the music!!!


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

Awesome man, doin work!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

So whoever had this car before me... Well...They tried. This is what i started with. I have no idea what kind of CLD this is and from all the shoddy work around the car that i've found so far. I don't trust it to be a quality product. You can see some kind of stick on foam they put on the inner door metal for reasons unknown. (Picture 2)


















All Cleaned up. I left the butyl vapor barrier stuff because well frankly..It was hard as **** to get off and ill be putting CLD ontop of it anyway so meh. Leave it. VVVV








VVVV I really should have put CLD on the top layer and then started cleaning up the wiring but oh well. Lesson learned. Ill do it that way on the other door. I got CLD down on the back of the door. 








I cleaned up some of the wiring. Cut out the Midbass/midrange/Tweeter wiring, which made the wiring harness like 50% smaller and alot easier to manage. All the wiring is getting covered/is covered in Tesa cloth tape to prevent vibrations. Every clip is getting a Tesa tape layer in front of and behind the mounting hole so that the clips don't vibrate. Some clips actually mount by putting pressure on the back of the metal hole its mounted on. Some of the clips were designed in such a way that i couldn't really prevent vibration so i just cut the damn thing off and drilled a secondary hole next to the main clip hole and ran a zip tie. Works really well. 
















Not even close to being done but im tired for tonight.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Got some more work done on the doors today. Traced out both large door holes with painters thin plastic and transferred to 1/16th ABS sheets. I screwed one corner down and used a heat fun to get a mold. The final product was a lot more smooth and also didnt have the damn door mechanism going through it....Gf was distracting. The interior of the door is also full of Rockwool. i just used gorilla tape in hopes that itll stay on. Chances are it wont but ill check in a few weeks and see whats up. If it doesnt work. Ill bust out the magnets and chicken wire.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

On a side note. Gf was half helping, half playing animal crossing which made me realize...I could totally use a Switch as a source


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I did a full layer of MLV but later found that even with careful measuring. Most of it won't fit with the door. There's quite a few spots where the tolerances are too tight. So i ended up wasting a lot of mlv and only using maybe 1/4 of whats in that picture. Its mainly covering up one of the ABS sheets now. Now that i've done a few cars with MLV. I think the best way to do a door isn't in one big sheet but rather in 1 or 1.5ft sections and just tape them together with a good tape with no seam. The white stuff is a thinsulate 1.5in and .5in (600l and 200l)


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

I wasted a lot of mlv on the doors to having to cut it all away to. Same goes for thinsulate, did you remove that foam block and plastic square thing? I ran a piece of thinsulate after the window control piece to the rear of the door trim. After i got the screws in and fasters secure, I would then shove thinsulate in that vertical cavety and put in the switch trim.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

K-pop sucks said:


> I wasted a lot of mlv on the doors to having to cut it all away to. Same goes for thinsulate, did you remove that foam block and plastic square thing? I ran a piece of thinsulate after the window control piece to the rear of the door trim. After i got the screws in and fasters secure, I would then shove thinsulate in that vertical cavety and put in the switch trim.



Yea I took out all the foam stuff. I used the thin. .5in stuff on the parts of the door that i had issues with the mlv. So its a decoupler and insulation between the door panel and the door.

Finished 1 door today and holy **** its dead. I really hope Thinsulate is worth it tho. ****s expensive


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Full tear down. Expanding foam in large nooks and crannies. Mlv with Thinsulate because of Justin Zazzis report on the best decoupler. Then a ****load of Rockwool. 

Whats not pictures. Full covered of every single wire and connector with Tesa cloth tape, as well as all the mounting holes for clips and mounting holes for where panels fit into eachother. Not a rattle or plastic rubbing will be had.


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

Respect the all out sound treatments. Good job


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## Blu (Nov 3, 2008)

Hey Jscoyne2,

Not sure sure if you were planning on adding CLD to the trunk area etc, but the factory applied "deadener" (the grey-ish wrinkly hard ****) comes up really easily with the gentle use of a heat gun and an old dull chisel (or other similar scraper) - any residue can be taken care of with some Acetone on a rag.
Did this on my RAV4 front wheel well and it was super easy... I have noticed that there are areas in my trunk spare well where the factory deadener is brittle and is basically flaking off in places. Will probably do the same when I get to working on that area...

In any case, just thought I'd throw this out there in case it was helpful to you.

Cheers!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

K-pop sucks said:


> I wasted a lot of mlv on the doors to having to cut it all away to. Same goes for thinsulate, did you remove that foam block and plastic square thing? I ran a piece of thinsulate after the window control piece to the rear of the door trim. After i got the screws in and fasters secure, I would then shove thinsulate in that vertical cavety and put in the switch trim.


Tried it on the wheel well today. Yea. No. **** that noise. Way too many curves to do.


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Tried it on the wheel well today. Yea. No. **** that noise. Way too many curves to do.
[/QUOTE]

Which one? Inside or outside?


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

K-pop sucks said:


> Tried it on the wheel well today. Yea. No. **** that noise. Way too many curves to do.


Which one? Inside or outside?
[/QUOTE]
inside


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Which one? Inside or outside?


inside
[/QUOTE]
Rear wheel well right?

What I did was I cut sections of Mlv and layered them together with tesa double sided to cover the wheel as best as possible.

My first failure was trying to cover the wheel trim panel in Mlv.


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## 01LSi (Jul 27, 2012)

I know each cars different and could be wrong about this material. But those rockwools might deteriorate and create a future problem for you like is a very common problem rusting the sills out on the MR2?




















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## 01LSi (Jul 27, 2012)

Especially if the sunroof drains into that general area or the exterior quarter window seals start warping outward (it does this on Integras) and allowing water in there from the outside.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

There's quite a lot of exhaust noise as the exhaust covers most of the back of the car. So i took out the spare(because i have AAA) and all the foam that surrounded the spare. In its place i built basically an acoustic trap. Its .5 mdf with mlv lining it and then Rockwool inside it. Does a pretty good job of cutting down on noise from behind.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

01LSi said:


> Especially if the sunroof drains into that general area or the exterior quarter window seals start warping outward (it does this on Integras) and allowing water in there from the outside.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Checked the material beforehand. I shouldn't have any issues but im going to check in a few weeks after some rains. See how it holds up.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Loving the build so far!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

BP1Fanatic said:


> Loving the build so far!


Thanks! This is all you'll see for awhile. Not working rn so i need to sell some old gear to get some gear for this car. And no one has money rn :/


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

18 8.5


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice rims!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)




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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)




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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I ****in hate plastidip


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Lol!


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Plastidip should be sold in the Ricer section of Napa.


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## opekone (Mar 24, 2020)

K-pop sucks said:


> Plastidip should be sold in the Ricer section of Napa.


Damn I thought that phrase got left behind with the now vintage srt-4.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

I use to have a 1995 Neon Sport Sedan with a 2001 PT Cruiser 2.4L DOHC motor!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

New toys and fiberglassing begind


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Beefy sub!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Well. My boss tried to kill us by throwing us into a wall at 120 mph in his 400hp Mini Cooper. Luckily, we weren't hurt. In other news. Got some more work done on the fiberglass enclosure. It looks like its going to be just under 2 cuft...which is quite a bit bigger than what i need for my 12" driver. However, With the thickness of the enclosure, Plus the Thinsulate im going to load into it and the thickness of the future front wall of the enclosure. Its going to be one giant acoustic blocker for wheel well noise. So that's really nice. Ill do some Winisd specs and see what all .75 cuft does to excursion and QTC. I may end up cutting the left side down by a few inches. Will make wrapping it around the back seat easier and would put me in the right CUFT area i need.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Wow!!!


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Full tear down. Expanding foam in large nooks and crannies. Mlv with Thinsulate because of Justin Zazzis report on the best decoupler. Then a ****load of Rockwool.


Wait are you ... you mean for real? I didn't think anyone would actually do that! And Rockwool too!?
I'm curious how it turns out.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Justin Zazzi said:


> Wait are you ... you mean for real? I didn't think anyone would actually do that! And Rockwool too!?
> I'm curious how it turns out.


Hey, you're the smart one. I'm just using what you said works. The rockwool isn't hydrophobic but its not supposed to hold water for very long and doesn't mold. I live in Oregon, so water retention, even short term. May prove to be an issue...but we'll see.


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Hey, you're the smart one. I'm just using what you said works. The rockwool isn't hydrophobic but its not supposed to hold water for very long and doesn't mold. I live in Oregon, so water retention, even short term. May prove to be an issue...but we'll see.


I'm trying thermafiber wrapped in plastic.Feels sketchy but we'll see if holds up. 


http://imgur.com/oB5r6ta


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

2in baffle. Plus some high stuff to make a cool little baffle ring. Will raise it to be more centered in the enclosure. Also gotta clean up some body filler and sharp edges on the enclosure that ive been lazy about. It


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Wrapped it and put super glue on all the side. Checked for fitment and resin'd it. Tomorrow ill start adding layers. Getting closer to finishing this one...and starting the left side.....


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)




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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice work! I have never done fiberglass. Pure MDF guy.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Tapped two of the holes so i can get it out when its flush mounted without having to move the enclosure.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)




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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Had some water coming in via the air vents as well as them letting an obnoxious amount of road noise in so i decided to make a more "fart" designed vent. Basically i just took the originals out. lined the hole with butyl rope, stuck a piece of mlv to it and then cut slits into the mlv. Then put a line of gap filler expanding foam around it, then trimmed that. Expanding foam sticks to ****ing EVERYTHING so its just acting like secondary glue. Basically the MLV slits should let air go through when i close the door and there is a sudden pressure increase inside the car, but then return to their normal stiff sound blocking position. This is done on both sides. i just have pics of the one side with the enclosure. My phone takes trash pics. Sorry.

I have to say though. If you want a quiet car. Buy one because tracking down every tiny rattle in this car is a longggg process.

Note all the insulation, thinsulate and thin polyfill between the enclosure and the metal.


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

Just be careful that your new vent design doesn't allow exhaust fumes in. The originals are one-way vents for that reason among others.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

lithium said:


> Just be careful that your new vent design doesn't allow exhaust fumes in. The originals are one-way vents for that reason among others.


Ill be sure to keep that in mind. Thanks


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## Jaloosk (Jan 13, 2010)

Love my icon sub. Nice build 👍 I like what you’re doing so far.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Jaloosk said:


> Love my icon sub. Nice build 👍 I like what you’re doing so far.


Thanks! i know its kinda shotty looking right now but there is a final plan where everything will be highly polished. Really right now i just stripped most the interior and im slowing tracking down rattles and adding interior parts back on one by one.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Sneak peak. Possibly. If i can get this CAD file cut affordably


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Sneak peak









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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Stuff is really fragile. I'm honestly not sure if ill be able to do the lighting the way that i want too. Might just have to go with a general rgb style. Won't look bad at all but we'll see























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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Progress









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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

What i did was create a design and then had it cut out of both a sheet of black acrylic and clear acrylic. I think took the clear acrylic parte and put them into the spots i wanted on the black acrylic. Getting what you see above. 

However i ran into some pretty big issues. When you glue acrylic you need the pieces to touch. When the acrylic was cut from a laser. The kerf of the laser is something like 0.03mm. Seems small but its enough that when i take one piece and put it into another. It fits really well but still isn't quite touching. 

So all my pieces had to be pushed to one side or another which means anything large has some pretty big surfaces not glued.

The applicator that came with weld on 4 is also really bad. Its a needle nose on a bottle. You'd think, squeeze the bottle and glue comes out. Doesn't work like that though. You tip it and it just pours out the needle.

Idk maybe i got a bad bottle. But it made glueing that much more difficult and i made a bit of a mess. Any type of gloss acrylic is glossy because when it was initially poured. The mold had a smooth surface. When acrylic glue gets on that gloss. It loosens those molecules and gives you a matte finish. Which is obviously really bad for a finished lighted product.

Good news is. A coat of high gloss clear coat seemed to fix that issue up.

I am playing with some pretty tight tolerances with the amp rack as the subwoofer enclosure i built has the sub mounting pretty low on the enclosure and i cant go past that point. 

That means i have to find a way to light this thing. Diffuse it. Deal with a ****load of wiring and get the relatively large amps all in. 

All in all. I'll prob be within 1/8th inch when it's all said and done. Still working on a way to get the lighting the way that I want. 

...do something totally unique and never done before...yea...great idea. Somebody shoot me 





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Is


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Jscoyne2 said:


> What i did was create a design and then had it cut out of both a sheet of black acrylic and clear acrylic. I think took the clear acrylic parte and put them into the spots i wanted on the black acrylic. Getting what you see above.
> 
> However i ran into some pretty big issues. When you glue acrylic you need the pieces to touch. When the acrylic was cut from a laser. The kerf of the laser is something like 0.03mm. Seems small but its enough that when i take one piece and put it into another. It fits really well but still isn't quite touching.
> 
> ...


This is going to look killer! Looking forward to your progress. As far as lighting have you thought about cutting out an area smaller than the locations for the amp, dsp, fuse block? For example if your dsp location looks to be about 5x7" so center a 3x5" cutout there and remove it and wrap your led's around the perimeter of the 3x5" cutout with led's facing out and reinsert where you cut it out from. Your equipment will sit over it covering your work but the light will emit outwards form the cutout locations. Have I made any sense? Having a hard time putting thought to key board!!! Wouldn't that work?


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

DaveG said:


> This is going to look killer! Looking forward to your progress. As far as lighting have you thought about cutting out an area smaller than the locations for the amp, dsp, fuse block? For example if your dsp location looks to be about 5x7" so center a 3x5" cutout there and remove it and wrap your led's around the perimeter of the 3x5" cutout with led's facing out and reinsert where you cut it out from. Your equipment will sit over it covering your work but the light will emit outwards form the cutout locations. Have I made any sense? Having a hard time putting thought to key board!!! Wouldn't that work?


Ive considered doing that and it would work. Been thinking more along the lines of how to light the smaller lines tho.

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Im so slow









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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Year layer. Gorilla tape and rockwool hold up just fine.

I will say tho. When i roll my window down and back up. There's usually some rockwool on the window. So im pulling it out and wrapping it in plastic and putting it back in
















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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Year layer. Gorilla tape and rockwool hold up just fine.
> 
> I will say tho. When i roll my window down and back up. There's usually some rockwool on the window. So im pulling it out and wrapping it in plastic and putting it back in
> 
> ...


Would absolutely suggest the plastic. I would also probably leave that rockwool out in the sun for a few days. If it's saturated what so ever from being in the door without a bag already. Its gonna start growing stuff with the quickness when you wrap it


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Now with plastic
















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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Slight change of plans..an expensive one.

I had never really worked with acrylic so I didn't understand the materials properties. Thought i could really get the glow effect i wanted with frosted clear acrylic. Turns out. Thats more of a poor diffusion effect than the light up that I wanted. So i ordered the same design but this time with Opal White acrylic. Lights up exactly how i wanted. Don't have to bother with expensive etching. 

Also last time i bought 4 large pieces of acrylic (2 clear, 2 black)and took out the negative of one to put into the other.

This time i saved abunch of money by simply buying 2 pieces. Leaving the factory laser cut tape on it and peeling off the tape where i wanted it black. Then i painted it all black. Peeled the rest of the tape off and had the designs i wanted in white.

I got some gloss black paint from walmart. Gave me dead black. Not even close to glossy. Slightly sad but still looks fantastic. Doesn't compare to the factory black gloss acrylic from before but thats okay.






























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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

You must be a quick learn...that was a smart way to do it !!!

And while generally its not my style, I think it will look great and I am very curious to see the results.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

seafish said:


> You must be a quick learn...that was a smart way to do it !!!
> 
> And while generally its not my style, I think it will look great and I am very curious to see the results.


I ordered abunch of samples of acrylic from Ponoko and lit them with Leds. Tested to see exactly which one gave me the effect i wanted.

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Got a lil work done
















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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Some fans
















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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

As soon as i can find something strong to bind acrylic to wood. Ill start putting it all together
















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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Amp rack walls









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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Originally had mdf as walls and an acrylic base but i was honestly just having a hard time finding anything that could bind mdf to acrylic correctly. Said screw it and made the walls from acrylic. Will end up covering them tho as I don't want whats behind it to be seen.























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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Wow! Where’d you get the acrylic? 
Expensive?


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Chris12 said:


> Wow! Where’d you get the acrylic?
> Expensive?


Tap plastics. And yea. Expensive but. necessary for what i want

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## kattan_tha_man (Feb 2, 2021)

Jscoyne2 said:


> I took off the back quarter panel and look at all this room! ...and horrible **** CLD that i get to tear off.
> View attachment 269490
> View attachment 269491
> View attachment 269492
> ...


I drive a 2006 Camry so I know how that car grows on you. My dad gave me the car and at first I hated it. Now it is without a doubt the best car I've ever owned. Reliable as hell, loads of custom parts, tons of info online, blends in to cops, did I mention reliability?

I'm a very experienced mechanic and Toyota, scion, and lexus are the best cars on the road. If I work on a car with over 3 or 400,000 miles it's almost certainly a toyota. 

Love the new car and can appreciate all the work you are doing to it. It's all worth it when you can drive it for 400,000 miles. Good luck


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Chris12 said:


> Wow! Where’d you get the acrylic?
> Expensive?


Weight wise tho. Its only about 10lb heavier than if i used mdf

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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

kattan_tha_man said:


> I drive a 2006 Camry so I know how that car grows on you. My dad gave me the car and at first I hated it. Now it is without a doubt the best car I've ever owned. Reliable as hell, loads of custom parts, tons of info online, blends in to cops, did I mention reliability?
> 
> I'm a very experienced mechanic and Toyota, scion, and lexus are the best cars on the road. If I work on a car with over 3 or 400,000 miles it's almost certainly a toyota.
> 
> Love the new car and can appreciate all the work you are doing to it. It's all worth it when you can drive it for 400,000 miles. Good luck


Agreed, and I'm a Ford guy. My step mother gave me her Solara in 2013 with 79K miles. Today it has 203K miles. The 3L V6 engine is bullet proof and rarely looses at stop light Grand Prix's.


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## kattan_tha_man (Feb 2, 2021)

BP1Fanatic said:


> Agreed, and I'm a Ford guy. My step mother gave me her Solara in 2013 with 79K miles. Today it has 203K miles. The 3L V6 engine is bullet proof and rarely looses at stop light Grand Prix's.


I'm jelous. I wish mine was a v6. Like I said mine has what it needs to be a good car and no more. The 2.4 is perfectly adequate. no more no less.

I'm a mechanic. The only pitfall of the 3.0 is it runs a rubber timing belt. every 100,000 miles it needs replacement.\
If you haven't done it or are don't know for sure. Replace ASAP. could potentially destroy your sweet v6. Toyota messed that one up.

If you already knew, awesome because the job costs hundreds.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm a mechanic too. I've never cracked the timing cover. If it ain't broke, I don't fix it other than oil, filters, and spark plugs. 

I've personally replaced all 4 strut assemblies, fuel filter, valve cover gaskets, the driver's side axle, both tie rods, sway bar end links, all 4 rotors, brake pads, emergency brake shoes, and all the o2 sensors.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I have looked at whats out there for more power options and unfortunately. There isn't anything much. There are kinda some turbo options but nothing all that bolt on or "set." I have a hard time trusting any turbo options that havent been tried and tested.

Some people have said that its possible the 2011 Camry v6 engine may have the exact same engine mount points in the Camry and Scion tc2. But again, nothing concrete. 

Its a great car. i love it but GOD I WISH there was more options for just a little more HP. Idk, may at some point way in the future. Ill figure out how to do an engine swap.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

I'd like the 3.5L in my engine bay! I wonder if the 4L truck motor will bolt to the Camry transaxle???


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Hmm


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## kattan_tha_man (Feb 2, 2021)

BP1Fanatic said:


> I'm a mechanic too. I've never cracked the timing cover. If it ain't broke, I don't fix it other than oil, filters, and spark plugs.
> 
> I've personally replaced all 4 strut assemblies, fuel filter, valve cover gaskets, the driver's side axle, both tie rods, sway bar end links, all 4 rotors, brake pads, emergency brake shoes, and all the o2 sensors.
> 
> ...


I checked and that engine HAS a rubber timing belt. It needs to be replaced every 80-100k miles. if it is not replaced, later on when it fails it could bend valves as this is an interference engine. not replacing the timing belt can turn a good engine into trash when it fails. 

If you don't believe me, do your own research please. if not replaced you might be putting a new engine in your camry.

i just wanted to be sure about the timing belt thing. i would hate to see one of those fine toyota v6 engines grenade for no reason.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm not sweating it. It was a free car and I already got 125k miles out of it in 8 years of having it. It needs another engine, then its off to kars4kids or a 3.5L V6.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

First time using tech flex. Not super fun.









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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Jscoyne2 said:


> First time using tech flex. Not super fun.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just a heads up, if that tech flex is aluminized mylar (mylar that is reflective is most likely aluminized), you better hope the techflex isn't touching the bare wire under that heat shrink or you are going to be in for an interesting time. 

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Just a heads up, if that tech flex is aluminized mylar (mylar that is reflective is most likely aluminized), you better hope the techflex isn't touching the bare wire under that heat shrink or you are going to be in for an interesting time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


I checked with a multimeter. No continuity at any point. Its just plastic.

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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Jscoyne2 said:


> I checked with a multimeter. No continuity at any point. Its just plastic.
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


Plastic that may be slightly conductive. Again, just a heads up. Don't want to see anything happen to this build or you 

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Plastic that may be slightly conductive. Again, just a heads up. Don't want to see anything happen to this build or you
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Fer sure. Thanks. Ill send the guy I got it from an email. See what its made from

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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Fer sure. Thanks. Ill send the guy I got it from an email. See what its made from
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


Usually those plastic metallic techflex lines are mylar. 

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Usually those plastic metallic techflex lines are mylar.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


And now im concerned

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Usually those plastic metallic techflex lines are mylar.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


If i take a run of the techflex. Connect it between the battery terminals and dont have any kind of issue. Thay should be a safe bet yea?

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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Jscoyne2 said:


> And now im concerned
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


What we did when we used brass techflex was put on a layer of heatstrink that goes from over the jacket to about a quarter inch over the stripped and exposed wire, then the techflex set back a reasonable amount, then heatshrink over that again. 

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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Jscoyne2 said:


> If i take a run of the techflex. Connect it between the battery terminals and dont have any kind of issue. Thay should be a safe bet yea?
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


Take a video 

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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

But yeah, key words here are metalized mylar

"Flexo Chrome XC heavy duty expandable metallized mylar sleeve is ideal for dressing up any application with the look of braided stainless steel."
















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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Take a video
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk







Messed with it a little more too. Had zero issues. 



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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Damn, that was way too uneventful

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Damn, that was way too uneventful
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Haha. I actually did get it to read an ohm load. Was 0.0025 ohms. 

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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Haha. I actually did get it to read an ohm load. Was 0.0025 ohms.
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


Thats...... very very low. You mean 0.0025m ohms?

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Thats...... very very low. You mean 0.0025m ohms?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Tried to get a picture of it for you. Realized...i was actually measuring the resistance of my fingers. 

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Heh























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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Got tired of dealing with frayed Techflex ends. Not going to buy a special tool for one install. Made my own..hot...knife.









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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

This took awhile.
















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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Yes









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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

All wires are on quick connects which will have a main hub right behind the amp rack. Ill be able to disconnect the entire amp rack and pull it out extremely easily.





































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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Here's a short video of it in action. I'll prob get some nicer Leds with better effects here pretty soon.















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## chrisp2493 (Apr 18, 2021)

That’s awesome! I see you have some zip tie sticky backs for the wiring, is that temporary? We use something like this at work, it’s a screw down one so they hold better then the sticky backs, and they are lower profile so they won’t be as visible 










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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

chrisp2493 said:


> That’s awesome! I see you have some zip tie sticky backs for the wiring, is that temporary? We use something like this at work, it’s a screw down one so they hold better then the sticky backs, and they are lower profile so they won’t be as visible
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't want to use zip ties but couldn't find a better solution. Im kinda committed n9w tho. Holes are already drilled

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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

This is a cool build !!!!

Not my style at all, but certainly ALOT of fab work with ALOT of serious commitment !!!

Only one question for you--

Where's the fake fur gonna go ?? 😂 JK


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

seafish said:


> This is a cool build !!!!
> 
> Not my style at all, but certainly ALOT of fab work with ALOT of serious commitment !!!
> 
> ...


Thanks. Its definitely been some work. I was actually gonna do all carbon fiber interior but the more into this i get. The less i like that idea. Will probably just find a nice black material to wrap interior with. 

AND NO FUR lol. 

Whats your style?

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## chrisp2493 (Apr 18, 2021)

They are crazy. That design is amazing


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Thanks. Its definitely been some work. I was actually gonna do all carbon fiber interior but the more into this i get. The less i like that idea. Will probably just find a nice black material to wrap interior with.
> 
> AND NO FUR lol.
> 
> ...


If I had to name my "style" it would be "boring" ... LOL

Form follows function with zero to minimal bling...I try to let the beauty of the equipment speak for itself.
Clean layout and lines with basic materials and minimal colors almost always black and silver with perhaps a bit of wood or corian for speaker mount accents.
Wires hidden when possible and always braided or at least neatly bundled with techflex and heatshrink.

Like I said BORING but IMO also beautiful !!!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

seafish said:


> If I had to name my "style" it would be "boring" ... LOL
> 
> Form follows function with zero to minimal bling...I try to let the beauty of the equipment speak for itself.
> Clean layout and lines with basic materials and minimal colors almost always black and silver with perhaps a bit of wood or corian for speaker mount accents.
> ...


I feel that. Certainly has its place to hide everything. Especially when you have like 3 amps and a dsp and a ton of wire. Takes more skill to hide it all.

But i wanna atleast try and go for an install trophy here

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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Jscoyne2 said:


> But i wanna a tleast try and go for an install trophy here


And THAT you are certainly doing !!!

I am curious if you will still be able to set the LED lights to "sequence flash" to mimic the signal chain...like you talked about earlier??


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

seafish said:


> And THAT you are certainly doing !!!
> 
> I am curious if you will still be able to set the LED lights to "sequence flash" to mimic the signal chain...like you talked about earlier??


So i want to put leds under the "wired" designs and have those leds be on a "chase" function. The issue being. In order to light up acrylic without having a hotspots showing each led. You need space for diffusion between the lights and the white acrylic. 

Thats not exactly the issue tho. The issue is that there's 1/2in of clear acrylic between the lights and the white acrylic. Which means any effort to get a focused color on one strip of wired design and then another color on a different strip thats right next to the other one, is basically impossible

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Guts









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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Been in south lake tahoe for awhile, enjoying the sights. Back to work on this.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)




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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)




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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

So its been a long time since ive posted. Ive been rushing to get it done by Surf City and just found out today its postponed. Which sucks but it gives me more time to tune and get some things together. Which is nice. I have been really bad at taking pictures so heres kind of a photo dump and you can look through it if you care. 


This is some of the interior deadening. All the holes between seat rails and any kind of large hollow expanse in the body(there's ALOT) have been filled with foam or Rockwool. Everything else was cleaned and KnuKonceptz CLD was laid on the floor. Wasn't super necessary but i have a tonnn of it laying around so why not. Also, i have no experienced any of the issues that others have had with it. There's also a rediculous amount of slack in the carpet. So much so that i was able to lay an entire layer of 1.5in 3M Thinsulate across most of the floor with ZERO fitment issues. 

The black corrugated loom of the center console is how the rcas and speaker wire were ran. Everything was strapped with Velcro tape. Which is 10000x better than zip ties.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

So this is the left side panel and the process of building it. It looks much better in person, Flash on a phone always makes everything look bad. Plus when you look at it from the top. you dont see the panel gaps


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I needed to fill the gap between OEM panel and the subwoofer enclosure. So i taped off the entire sub enclosure and made a very thin(about 3-4 layers of 1.5oz mat, 1/8in thick ish) cover over it, that also extended over to the OEM panel. The last two pics show the final product as well as a small filler panel between the amp rack and the sub enclosure.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Next was the connecting panel closest to the bumper. I tried using the OEM panel and just modifying it a little but eventually found it much easier to just make an entirely new panel.. Sorry about the **** quality pictures. Flash is on and my phone is crap. The fabric is actually so dark you cant see the connection between panels and it all flows really well. When doing fiberglass. You really only need a base form to glass ontop of so busting out the hot glue and getting creative can get you really far. I used some Dollar Store folders cut into strips and bent to bridge the gap between the amp rack and the main panel i was building. Its all held on by two threaded rivets and two screws the screw into them.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Tech flex'd the 2/0 welding wire Power/Negative


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Now I am running the entire system off my phone to an OTG cable to a ****t Modi DAC. So my main volume control comes from the Minidsp remote. I raged for about 2 weeks trying to get this remote to work. Come to find out, it used a VERY special wire that you basically cant find anywhere but online and i couldnt get the firmware to update and blah blah blah. I HAD ISSUES FOR AWHILE. But i figured it out after some customer service email and a lot of just being mad at it and ****ing with things. Eventually i got it to work. This is how i hacked up my OEM radio and hid the remote in plain site. I am pretty proud of myself for this. The two wood blocks have magnets epoxied in that LOCK the controller into place. I did a quick coat of resin on the back side of the buttons to lock them all in place. I then drilled out the original controller. Some light dremel work later and it also goes back in super smooth.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I still need to make a beauty panel for the subwoofer and then add a top acrylic panel over the entire amp rack but its 99% done fabrication wise.


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## chrisp2493 (Apr 18, 2021)

That looks really awesome, great job and some really nice creativity


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

chrisp2493 said:


> That looks really awesome, great job and some really nice creativity


Thanks buddy!

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## NW JLUR (Dec 3, 2018)

That is looking really good! I like the circuit board amp rack.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

NW JLUR said:


> That is looking really good! I like the circuit board amp rack.


Thanks man. I wanted to do something different because my overall goal is to get that triple crown trophy at some point. Wanted something that really popped.

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## NW JLUR (Dec 3, 2018)

Ohh nice. Maybe I’ll get a chance to see it in person sometime. Wish there were more sq competitions in Portland area.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

NW JLUR said:


> Ohh nice. Maybe I’ll get a chance to see it in person sometime. Wish there were more sq competitions in Portland area.


Ill be at surf city. When it happens. Im guessing itll be early September

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## NW JLUR (Dec 3, 2018)

Sounds good. If I can make it there I’ll look out for your car.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Everything came out nice as h3ll!


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Lookin’ good! I can only imagine how many hours you’ve put into this.

I’m curious about that unique miniDSP remote wire you spoke of. I previously assumed that it was just a regular rj11 phone cord. What’s different about the one miniDSP supplies? Could you please provide a link to the one you bought?

Thanks for detailing this process!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Chris12 said:


> Lookin’ good! I can only imagine how many hours you’ve put into this.
> 
> I’m curious about that unique miniDSP remote wire you spoke of. I previously assumed that it was just a regular rj11 phone cord. What’s different about the one miniDSP supplies? Could you please provide a link to the one you bought?
> 
> Thanks for detailing this process!


The required wire is an rj11 6 pin straight through connector. Most phone lines are less than 6 pins and are crossover type connectors.I bought this connector but i think i way over paid for it. Pretty sure you can find it cheaper elsewhere.

Crossover is also known as reverse









6-Pin Controller Remote Cable Wire Cord miniDSP Mini DSP C-DSP 6x8 8X12 DL V2.0 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 6-Pin Controller Remote Cable Wire Cord miniDSP Mini DSP C-DSP 6x8 8X12 DL V2.0 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Jscoyne2 said:


> The required wire is an rj11 6 pin straight through connector. Most phone lines are less than 6 pins and are crossover type connectors.I bought this connector but i think i way over paid for it. Pretty sure you can find it cheaper elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Learn something new every day 

Thanks for the information!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I’ve been glued to this thread for last two hours 

oh my goooooooooodnesss sakes

love it !!!! I love love it !!! Soooo sick
That dash is a excellent shape also


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

oabeieo said:


> I’ve been glued to this thread for last two hours
> 
> oh my goooooooooodnesss sakes
> 
> ...


Thanks man. Thought you might get a kick out of it.

Been learning Dirac 3.0

Diff between 1.0 and 3.0 is insane in detail.

Feel like my stage is too far right. However all test tracks, frequency specific beeps, left-center-right tracks, all say that everything is ABSOLUTELY perfect. 

But it really feels like everything is recorded in mono. Not sure whats up with that. 

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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Thanks man. Thought you might get a kick out of it.
> 
> Been learning Dirac 3.0
> 
> ...


You’re right horn he’s probably sending a lot of energy with they been patterYou’re right horn he’s probably sending a lot of energy i’ve noticed that they will sort of laser focus beam energy right into your ear, and a tiny (and I mean tiny) ajustment tilt up or down will solve , try tilt horn down tworards the floor tincy tiny bit


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Made a grill


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Nice thin rings!!!!
Thin rings look the best 

it’s turning out awesome man, I wish so much I could be there to hear it


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I’m still on Dirac 2.0 in my car lmao , this Dirac rig I’m running now I’m too lazy to update ....

I wish you had tried 2 , I wonder if 3 is better , or if 2 and 3 are the same servers

I’ve only tuned others cars with 3

and I’m yet to try “studio” can you tell me about it


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Your a expert Dirac tuner now.... man I love what you’ve done.... it’s got to be amazing 

You know now that I think about it , my car also “feels” a little right strong , but it’s perfect if I stop thinking about it .... like super perfect as far as center goes


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

oabeieo said:


> Your a expert Dirac tuner now.... man I love what you’ve done.... it’s got to be amazing
> 
> You know now that I think about it , my car also “feels” a little right strong , but it’s perfect if I stop thinking about it .... like super perfect as far as center goes


Far from expert. I've actually been ignoring the tune. I did a base pretune/ dirac tune. Sounds pretty damn good even though my staging is weird. Havent really messed with it. 

Ive never actually done Dirac with a cone based system. I got the c-dsp when i got my horns. So idk if my issues stem from the horns install/aiming, or if it's dirac/tuning based issues. 

Instead ive been focusing on finishing the install. Finishing the small things. Doing the Leds, making the grills. Some other things. 

There's a big competition on the 2-3rd of October. So we'll see how i do

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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

It’s not Dirac.... and you are an expert , stop with that.

yeah it’s got to be a horn thing....dispersion and energy being focused stronger on tat side then the other which act my 3s do a little bit

my upper midrange rn are kicked to 20deg off axis driver and the passenger is directly on axis (to me not center of car)
And I can hear that midrange pointing right at me , but Dirac does a beautiful job at making it work 

I remember when I was using horns I tilted my passenger one down towards the floor just a tiny bit and it worked fantastic and made stage deeper and the low midrange on tat side sound more like the driver side


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

oabeieo said:


> It’s not Dirac.... and you are an expert , stop with that.
> 
> yeah it’s got to be a horn thing....dispersion and energy being focused stronger on tat side then the other which act my 3s do a little bit
> 
> ...


Do you think right side horn would be louder but still show equal to left side horn on measurements?


Also made a grill





































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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

That looks bad ass ..... 


so yes and no..... you just getting direct energy from the right and the left is more off axis

that what I was saying and maybe you need to trust me on this.... tilt the horn down to the ground like 2degrees , just tilt it down a tiny tiny bit and it won’t do that.

all my minis did that same exact thing when the axis was like that and it’s worse on narrow cars vs wide cars like a big dodge pickup... a small car like yours , just tilt the right horn down just a tiny tiny bit ....

your right ear is “seeing” down the horn. It needs to be just a tiny bit more off axis

The minis shoot a lot lot lot more energy to the opposite side


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

oabeieo said:


> That looks bad ass .....
> 
> 
> so yes and no..... you just getting direct energy from the right and the left is more off axis
> ...


My goal is to make all my speakers disappear during judging. There's nothing that distracts more than obvious speaker locations

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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Those horns look nice as h3ll!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Jscoyne2 said:


> My goal is to make all my speakers disappear during judging. There's nothing that distracts more than obvious speaker locations
> 
> Sent from my LM-Q730 using Tapatalk


It’s crazy how much your brain tells you how it should sound based on location


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

oabeieo said:


> It’s crazy how much your brain tells you how it should sound based on location


Which is annoying. I really really hate visual speaker. Even a well blended a-pillar or sail panel tweeter is obnoxious. You KNOW where the speaker is even when you can't exactly see it. 

I have some real gripes with horns. Their 12k and up is usually trash. Almost needs a dedicated super tweeter hidden somewhere. You can't do anything about large dips because there is no midrange to mess with the crossover in the higher octaves. Plus I've always had a touch of a weird stage with them.

But goddddd do I love listening to the left right test track, or a live song and my brain having no damn clue where the speakers are. It truly helps open up the stage width. Their ability to integrate into the car is obnoxious. Some dashes even let you bury them way deep and it's like. 8s in the door. Horns buried and boom. System ****ing installed. Excuse me while I tune my 2 way system and love my output potential and sound quality. 

I mean I have heard better speakers. Specifically the dynaudio esoter stuff but imo, there truly is something about high sensitivity drivers in cars. 

I think there's a lot too shaping the sound wave. There is soo so soo much damage done to FR and stage(which let's be honest, is just correct phase per frequency) by diffraction and nearfield reflections(read:all in car reflections). 

All the best cars I've heard had some shaping to their drivers sound wave. Whether it be a midrange/tweeter having a waveguide shaped around it or kickpanels having fiberglass flowing into the cars shape so that the sound wave more followed the shape of the car, rather than bounce around immediately. 

The more you shape the path of the initial wave, or rather the less you let the environment shape the wave. The better off you're going to be when it comes to tuning. You'll have less FR issues. Less phase anomalies. Better staging. And overall a better sounding car. 

I think the reason why cars with far separated mid/tweets sound so weird is because, even with all the EQ in the world. You just can't get a uniform wavefront. If they are close together, they sum immediately (especially in higher frequencies) and then that wave is shaped by the environment VS having two separate waves bouncing around the cabin and then trying to meet at your ear and you having to modify everything in the digital domain to mimic them being next to each other. 

Having horns under the dash with the waveguide very specifically aimed for a car truly helps in every aspect(Eric's minis) Plus taking the time to place the horn at a spot under the dash that gives the sound wave a good exit from the horn mouth so that it doesn't have a huge difference in pressure from horn exit to open area. I honestly don't even remember why that is but I do remember reading all about that deep within the hlcd threads. 

Sent from my LM-Q730 using Tapatalk


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Which is annoying. I really really hate visual speaker. Even a well blended a-pillar or sail panel tweeter is obnoxious. You KNOW where the speaker is even when you can't exactly see it.
> 
> I have some real gripes with horns. Their 12k and up is usually trash. Almost needs a dedicated super tweeter hidden somewhere. You can't do anything about large dips because there is no midrange to mess with the crossover in the higher octaves. Plus I've always had a touch of a weird stage with them.
> 
> ...


Yeah I just put a ring waveguide that’s about 1/16” tall around the utopia tweeter
It has such good off axis “performance “ it. Lol performs right on into the glass... haha ..... 

And ppl would think I’m a idiot for changing a utopia design. But it’s 10,000x better where I have it butted in corner of glass ... 

I gained a dB of sensitivity at 10k but hello .....eq ..... and it’s a lazer beam to my ears now.... way better !

I just made a ring out of clear 1/8” plex and made it super thin with a cutter ona print table. So it’s like a ring. I sanded it smooth so it’s smooth on all edges and circular.... placed it over the grill/dome and that 10k reflecting is gone and it’s lazer beam

once I fig out what pod to make it, rn it just rests on dash as my stevens pod won’t fit I’ll decide to build a thing that goes over it .... idk or leave the ring


yeah your exactly right tho.... a two way that gets with it whomps on 3,4,5ways
8s and horns done right is all you need.... it does everything.... I sorta miss it. I wish my car was better for midbass


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

And what you say about sum immediately, that’s a perfect explanation. Yes, I’ve been saying it for years but using different terminology....

propagation vs. modulation.

the way you say it, says it allin one easy to understand word that describes the function perfectly.... I like it


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

That’s why everyone said on dash horns don’t work right , well they do... you HAVE to have that mid/bass right next to the horn or it won’t work right.... it just won’t.
the modulation is too extreme difference and reflected energy has done too much damage before the actual sum. The mid has to be very close to horn or it’s a mess.
If the reflection is uniform it’s shapable. In the crossover and overlap areas most important.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Crickets


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Lol!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

oabeieo said:


> That’s why everyone said on dash horns don’t work right , well they do... you HAVE to have that mid/bass right next to the horn or it won’t work right.... it just won’t.
> the modulation is too extreme difference and reflected energy has done too much damage before the actual sum. The mid has to be very close to horn or it’s a mess.
> If the reflection is uniform it’s shapable. In the crossover and overlap areas most important.


I remember reading about horns on dash and wondering about that kind of thing. I was thinking horns were some kind of magical panacea for normal car reflective issues but it's not. A ES horn is just a well designed waveguide for a cars under dash. And it utilizes a waveguides ability to let a driver play lower/flatter. The compression part just lets you have the Spl needed without having to worry about excursion. The high sensitivity is a big added bonus tho. 

Having a Eric Stevens horn come from the the window/dash corner calls for a different horn design and imo doesn't actually need a horn at all. 

You CAN use a HLCD driver and have a waveguide designed to take advantage of the windows shape but that'd involve basically rebuilding the entire dash and at that point. If I'm rebuilding an entire dash. I'd rather build midbass enclosures into it rather than hope my waveguide design works the first time. 

I think if you want to do custom work for a horn without messing with the horns design too much. Do what MIC10 did and mount them past your firewall. 

I would have loved to hear that car. 

Sent from my LM-Q730 using Tapatalk


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Jscoyne2 said:


> I remember reading about horns on dash and wondering about that kind of thing. I was thinking horns were some kind of magical panacea for normal car reflective issues but it's not. A ES horn is just a well designed waveguide for a cars under dash. And it utilizes a waveguides ability to let a driver play lower/flatter. The compression part just lets you have the Spl needed without having to worry about excursion. The high sensitivity is a big added bonus tho.
> 
> Having a Eric Stevens horn come from the the window/dash corner calls for a different horn design and imo doesn't actually need a horn at all.
> 
> ...


Ideally yes 
The stevens horn is made for under dash /off axis 

I had mine off axis also just sunk into the dash firing up

it was a different axis but it was still off axis , It sounded like really dumb until I put the midbass right next to it and then it was fantastic

The path length difference was minimized also , it just desperately needed in mid right next-door to it...

Having them firing forward would not work the way it’s supposed to, I also did that for a while before I cut into my firewall and it sounded good the dispersion was wrong tho.... it worked fine for a one seat car, and at the time I was working for a two seat Which I eventually did get


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

oabeieo said:


> Ideally yes
> The stevens horn is made for under dash /off axis
> 
> I had mine off axis also just sunk into the dash firing up
> ...


So what I mean is that the ES horns are designed with the door and center console reflections in mind with the long angle going to the opposite side and the short angle going to the door as to not direct too much energy to it. You shouldn't use Es horns in any way but under dash. Otherwise, what you were doing was simply putting a big ass waveguide on a tweeter on the dash and dealing with reflections like you would a cone drive. Rather than guiding them. Which gives you better FR/staging cues. 

When the horn mouth is coming out at the windshield corner. It's suboptimal as ****. Even if you were like **** it, and tried. You would need to tear out your dash. Cut a rectangle out and then move any OEM wiring and mounting brackets/dash stuff out of the way to fit everything. At that point. Make a custom dash and modify the OEM to make horns work with it perfectly.

I think the only real way to have Optimal results with a horn/ compression driver combo on the dash is to have a very specifically made horn design. So mount the compression driver somewhere in the corner under the dash. Then on driver side. The custom horn design would take all of the energy from the top of the horn and direct it along the windshield path. The left side would have to mate the left horn exit with the A-pillar angle. The right side would flow all the way to the middle of the dash and the bottom would have a smooth roll off from the bottom and mate to the dash. Most likely a custom dash. 

And vice versa for the passenger
It'd be some serious work but epic as ****

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

First pic is the horizontalview. The overall shape the horn would be. The second pic is the shape the dash would need to be the make the bottom(nearest to you) side of the horn mouth flow correctly. You'd need a completely custom dash.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Yeah

If you’re trying to play lower than the frequency relevant to the mouth size then yeah I totally agree with you

All I know is I did it and you can’t argue with results , but that was away untypical Install and I had a provision for a midbass that I don’t know of any other car besides mine could’ve facilitated

Imaged good in both sides but honestly it was better for what we use it for with Direc, the imaging was pretty much the same as the imaging I have now with raw drivers con drivers I should say


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Yes you’re exactly right for the dispersion to work the way the horn was designed 

but that does not mean it can’t work and sound good for one seat and have proper imaging....

And I love your pictures and your second picture is exactly how I had mine firing semi up not straight up into the glass but it followed the curve of the windshield and you were definitely off axis to the mouth of the horn 

you don’t remember the pics I had, at first they were firing forward until I got my dash cut and then I cut out my firewall and sunk them into the dash and imaged awesome I did get a two seat tune out of it, but it didn’t come easy it sounded really good

but it was absolutely stupid without the midbass up top with them.

I did end up taking that all out and doing under dash horns with kicks and that’s when I built my kicks it’s definitely was a lot wider sound that way and worked a lot better... I just had a problem with height

I couldn’t get the high frequency to be as high as I would like although if my speakers were hidden nobody would’ve ever known that they were down low

If I ever do do it again I’m going to build a custom horn which I wanted to do the first time but never got around to it and then I wanted to try con drivers which I’m still in right now I’m liking it just fine

But I love your illustrations you’re pretty much exactly right on that


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Jscoyne2 said:


> First pic is the horizontalview. The overall shape the horn would be. The second pic is the shape the dash would need to be the make the bottom(nearest to you) side of the horn mouth flow correctly. You'd need a completely custom dash.
> View attachment 311882
> 
> 
> ...


There are enough people who have attempted this over the years with varying levels of "success".
When trying it with premade existing horn bodies like Eric's....they results aren't great.

Horns are meant to be used off axis under the dash and use the dash to load and help disperse sound. The on axis you get with the horn the more forward and in your face the sound becomes.

Every vehicle I've heard that has attempted this type of install, all had a very midrange forward sound. The soundstage was in front of the dash. Lacked depth cues and was a technical imaging nightmare from reflections.

Mark Eldridge made custom midrange horns in his 4 runner. And there is way more math and design and fabrication involved for me to ever attempt this.

And for the record...my BMW had the horns under the dash as far forward as possible. They were not in the firewall...that was someone else with a charger or Challenger.
The compression driver in my car sat inside the inner fender and the litter mouth edge was 1/2" from inner fender , which would just enough to have somewhere to mount it.
The rear of the horn touched the firewall.
Horn was wrapped in grill cloth and were cut down as small as possible.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Mic10is said:


> There are enough people who have attempted this over the years with varying levels of "success".
> When trying it with premade existing horn bodies like Eric's....they results aren't great.
> 
> Horns are meant to be used off axis under the dash and use the dash to load and help disperse sound. The on axis you get with the horn the more forward and in your face the sound becomes.
> ...


yeah that makes sense definitely!
When I had mine up top I had to cross no lower then 1.6k or the stage placement was off.... I got mine to have good depth, but the placement was never exact. The biggest problem For me was I couldn’t get near field and far field to play simultaneously..... everything was sorta in the middle.... I think that’s why I ultimately changed it...

i loved the way it sounded tho.... as far as having horns and midbass on top of the dash....if you only care about loud EDM music Someone would have had a wet dream over it....

That’s interesting you were able to nail that.... because that is really the only problem I was having.... everything else worked, and worked very well..

I now have 3 ways in my a pillars and absolutely love it.... have layers and stage is deep and right in front of you simultaneously, if the recording asks for it.

One thing I will say though is if I crossed it like 2.k or even 2k
It worked perfectly fine I just had a palm getting my 6 1/2 inch mid range to match up to those frequencies

I ran it like that for like six months and just wanted the staging more... and it was a struggle trying to get it to have the staging like my van which has underdash horns and I think that’s what made me do the swap to underdash.... And as soon as I did in staging was all there it was just too low for me so here I am now LOL no horns for the first time in over 20 years

I wouldn’t go as far as condemning the idea.... I know that’s the spirit of which seems to beon the topic , all I’m sayin is having done it , it works ...the right things must be in place , and you have to cross higher then the horn can play down to because of the glass and other things... crossed at 2k it works just fine with midbass very close to the horns and the horn mostly off axis.
It just becomes a thing where the horn is almost acting like a really good tweeter, and the stop band is barley barley reaching down doing what is fun with horns.... it’s not worth it it’s a waste of horns if the goal is to try and play all the way down.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Still for some work to do but this is post Dirac left and right. Sounds ****ing sweet. 

The left/right sub-midbass sections are different because the right side driver goes down a little farther than the left and I've always just let it in my tunes. 



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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

One db blocks.... totally zoomed in... 

Your a stud... that’s so awesome man.. 
I wish I could listen!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Thankss

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Better pic


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

New head unit. Joying 11.6"









JOYING Newest 11.6 Inch Single Din Android Auto Radio With Full-fit 1920X1080 Screen 8GB+128GB


SKU: JY-UQS11N8G-HShip From: Chinese WarehouseCPU: UIS7862 12nm Dual ARM Cortex-A75 + Six ARM A55Ram: LPDDR4 8GB Rom:EMMC 128GBSupport Bluetooth, WiFi, DVR, OBD2, Back-Up Camera




www.joyingauto.com


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)




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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

The thing about fiberglass is that it always looks horrible until its done. Its getting some paint and then fabric wrapped tomorrow. Ill post pics then.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Looks like a powerhouse of a deck…. Man you could possibly run jriver on that and use the convolution…. It’s a dam computer almost.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Huehuheuhe.
















That is all.

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

oabeieo said:


> Looks like a powerhouse of a deck…. Man you could possibly run jriver on that and use the convolution…. It’s a dam computer almost.


Uses it for Spotify and navigation soley.

Oof

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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

That came out nice as h3ll!


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## NW JLUR (Dec 3, 2018)

Looks very nice! Do you ever make it to the meet in Seaside?


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

NW JLUR said:


> Looks very nice! Do you ever make it to the meet in Seaside?


I only ever realy go to the Surf City Soundoff, idk any other events that we have in the PNW that arent 3-4+ hours away.


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## kdittoe (Apr 24, 2019)

Jscoyne2 said:


> I only ever realy go to the Surf City Soundoff, idk any other events that we have in the PNW that arent 3-4+ hours away.


Where are you in the PNW?


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## NW JLUR (Dec 3, 2018)

Jscoyne2 said:


> I only ever realy go to the Surf City Soundoff, idk any other events that we have in the PNW that arent 3-4+ hours away.


Sorry that’s the one I was thinking of. I found out about it last year but couldn’t make it. I’ll definitely be going this year. Would definitely be interested in listening to your car if you’re going to be there. It’s kind of sad there’s no events in the Portland area.


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## kdittoe (Apr 24, 2019)

NW JLUR said:


> Sorry that’s the one I was thinking of. I found out about it last year but couldn’t make it. I’ll definitely be going this year. Would definitely be interested in listening to your car if you’re going to be there. It’s kind of sad there’s no events in the Portland area.


Sometimes there's an event at Sonic Audio in Tualatin, and even though it's about 3 hours north of Portland, there's a 2X IASCA SQ in Puyallup on April 3rd.


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## NW JLUR (Dec 3, 2018)

kdittoe said:


> Sometimes there's an event at Sonic Audio in Tualatin, and even though it's about 3 hours north of Portland, there's a 2X IASCA SQ in Puyallup on April 3rd.


Thanks for the info. I have a previous commitment for the 3rd but may be able to reschedule. I’ve been looking for sq competitions so I could listen to some cars. Who knows I might even enter my Jeep to get some feedback.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

NW JLUR said:


> Sorry that’s the one I was thinking of. I found out about it last year but couldn’t make it. I’ll definitely be going this year. Would definitely be interested in listening to your car if you’re going to be there. It’s kind of sad there’s no events in the Portland area.


Been there. Every year for the last 3-4 years. You'll see me. 

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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Been adding some additions. Gb25 in dash on waveguides and Stereo Integrity Mk2 M25 tweets, also on waveguides.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)




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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)




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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

And the money shot.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Gotta wait for nicer weather to fiberglass






























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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

And all tied up.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Everything got rewired. Horns are out.
Its currently.
Eric stevens mb8 midbasses.
Audiofrog gb25 mids in waveguide on dash.
Stereo integrity M25 v2 tweets on dash in waveguide
First pic is the SI tweets at 1000hz hpf
Second pic is gb25 at 100hz hpf.
No eq on either.


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## Dark Winter (9 mo ago)

So how did the rock wool hold up? I've got a new-to-me '15 tC that I'm doing more-or-less the same stuff to; albeit with different components (Joying HU, Pioneer & Profile amps that I had already on hand, Dayton Reference drivers).


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Dark Winter said:


> So how did the rock wool hold up? I've got a new-to-me '15 tC that I'm doing more-or-less the same stuff to; albeit with different components (Joying HU, Pioneer & Profile amps that I had already on hand, Dayton Reference drivers).


The rockwool in the back corner panels works fantastically. For the the doors, the rockwool in plastic wrap works well. It will hold water if it gets wet. Like a sponge. So you gotta make sure its an airtight wrap. The tolerance difference between the door bar supports and the window is like half an inch. So you don't have much room for the rockwool without the plastic causing streaking on your window or just straight up ripping the plastic open. 

Any part inside of the door that has no chance of hitting the window mechanisms. I'd say wrapped rockwool all the way. 

But mounting the wrapped packages it isn't really great. There's just no way to do it well. 

Next vehicle. I'll bite the bullet and get the hydrophobic melamine that second skin sells. It's pretty pricey but I'm pretty sure it's got an adhesive backing. Melamine is a very good sound absorbing material and the version they have is completely hydrophobic. So no water issues.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Dark Winter said:


> So how did the rock wool hold up? I've got a new-to-me '15 tC that I'm doing more-or-less the same stuff to; albeit with different components (Joying HU, Pioneer & Profile amps that I had already on hand, Dayton Reference drivers).


made some short videos for people like you on the A-pillar and dash removal.









Scion Tc2 a pillar removal.







youtube.com













April 21, 2022







www.youtube.com





Feel free to PM me if you got questions on the TC


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)




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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

I love it....F the passenger!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

BP1Fanatic said:


> I love it....F the passenger!



Gonna extend the seat rails so they can be comfy


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)




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## MythosDreamLab (Nov 28, 2020)

Do you provide earplugs to your passengers?

_(lol, just joking, nice set-up)..._


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Looks good...but still needs shag rug installed all around the sub !!!  🤣


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

seafish said:


> Looks good...but still needs shag rug installed all around the sub !!!  🤣


You'll just never let me live it down... 




MythosDreamLab said:


> Do you provide earplugs to your passengers?
> 
> _(lol, just joking, nice set-up)..._


Extending seat rails is next.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Jscoyne2 said:


> You'll just never let me live it down...


No worries...NICE install... your install skills have moved well past any silly comments that I can make !!!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

So i built my enclosure in front because the one in the back couldnt get below 50hz. After WEEKS of trying to diagnose why. I finally figured it out. This was also after building the front sub and having the same ****ty response. I ended up finding that there was a tiny option in a tiny menu buried in windows 7 that was ****ing with my Mic response. I didn't even know that was possible but i found it by a fluke when i was teaching someone to tune today. So. Here's an SSA Icon in around 1.5 cuft.

Blue is near field
Red is at ear.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Wow!


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

How tall are you friends? The back seat _might_ have more legroom. 



Jscoyne2 said:


> View attachment 349744


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

RIGHT! Now what's funny is I snapped the 2 passenger front seat bolts Wednesday trying to rush an installation for my new car. I took the seat out to run RCA's up the middle and speaker wires down the passenger side. I haven't reinstalled the seat yet cause I drove up to Cleveland to see my mother and her side of the family Thursday afternoon with 30 minutes of sleep. So I'm up here chauffeuring aunts and uncles around in my car this weekend. They actually loving the view. I'll have to take a pick of the cabin area tomorrow.

Here is the trunk. The Toyota Solara accident is preventing my Hifonics bass amp from powering up. I'm borrowing an Orion Colbalt amp that I'm supposed to install my son's 2018 Volvo S60.

I will eventually install a 15" false floor enclosure. This system was basically to get me to Cleveland and back to Columbus.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Is that a 6th order ?


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

12" BP4.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

BP1Fanatic said:


> 12" BP4.
> 
> View attachment 351527
> View attachment 351528
> ...



Wtf 

Both sides of the speaker vent to same vents 
That is very unusual, that’s not a 4th order BP 

That’s something else if imseein ot right


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

What do you think a BP4 is?
Think w-bin with straight flare ports.
W-bin = FLH = BP4 with a positive flare port.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

BP1Fanatic said:


> What do you think a BP4 is?
> Think w-bin with straight flare ports.
> W-bin = FLH = BP4 with a positive flare port.
> 
> View attachment 351554



Ahhh okay I see it now ….

That’s pretty dang cool 

Two impedance peaks like a horn , man….. I got to try one !!


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