# Need to Bring These Out



## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

Just got my package in the mail from Eric Stevens (thanks again!!), and I've done a mockup install to see what will work. Had to trim off a fair amount from the edges to fit properly, but they work great!! My only real issue is that after auditioning these, right out of the box they are a little crisp to the ears. Even after a little tuning, I'm still finding them a little difficult to listen to. It's not that they are unbearable, rather I am trying to really bring these out to a crystal clear front. 

I had a spectacular tune at one point, but it was after setting most gains <-15db on my 3sixty.3 which the output was rather low. I'm running a Rockford Fosgate 300x2 to these which seems to be a decent match, but is there a way to get these loud AND clear? I'd honestly prefer it if I wasn't spoon fed here because I feel the need to learn for myself, but to be pointed in the correct direction for these would be more than appreciated. I'm just stepping into HLCD, and I really want to get this right so I can prove their worth to others.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Which drivers do you have, and what mids are you using? Do you have 300x2 on JUST the horns? That is a TON of power for a horn...


----------



## win1 (Sep 27, 2008)

Yes that is a ton of power where are your gains set and what mids are you using? Remember the horns don't need much power sensitivy around 111 with Eric's drivers, what are your crossover points?


----------



## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

win1 said:


> Yes that is a ton of power where are your gains set and what mids are you using? Remember the horns don't need much power sensitivy around 111 with Eric's drivers, what are your crossover points?


Well I do understand that you realistically only need <100 watts to produce outstanding levels. The amp that I am using (rockford punch 300x2) is rated for 150wrms @ 4 ohm. My gains are set at roughly 25% to minimize noise.

The mids I am using *right now* are JL C2s from 8 years ago until my 18Sound 6nd430s come in the mail. 

I have my horns crossed in a HPF @ 1,200hz/24db slope. I've been trying to find a good starting curve for the EQ on these horns, and I'm having a particularly hard time doing so.


----------



## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

cut 1.2khz-3khz by 6db
Majority of the time when people complain about horns having a "sound" to them its bc there is a level mismatch.
use pink noise and set gains to both mids at horns are around 90db at the driver seat at about 1/2 volume on the head unit.


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Broshi said:


> Well I do understand that you realistically only need <100 watts to produce outstanding levels. The amp that I am using (rockford punch 300x2) is rated for 150wrms @ 4 ohm. My gains are set at roughly 25% to minimize noise.
> 
> The mids I am using *right now* are JL C2s from 8 years ago until my 18Sound 6nd430s come in the mail.
> 
> I have my horns crossed in a HPF @ 1,200hz/24db slope. I've been trying to find a good starting curve for the EQ on these horns, and I'm having a particularly hard time doing so.


I have about 30 watts to my horns and even 92 1w/1m 6.5" midbass on 150 watts cant keep up. you dont need even 100 watts.


Straight from the master himself.


> You can search for tuning recommendations or maybe someone has a link.
> 
> Heres a a good start
> 
> ...


----------



## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Eq for 1/3rd octave
1.2Khz 0 to -2
1.6 kHz 0 to -3
2Khz -2 to -4
2.5Khz -4 to -6*
3.1Khz -4 to -6
4Khz -2 to -3

Optional
6.3Khz -2 to -3
8 Khz -1 to -3

12Khz +2
16khz +4
20Khz +6

Try working with the above and remember the sharpness perceived as a peak in the upper midrange/lower high frequencies might actually be a lack of upper bass and lower midrange.

Eric


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

dont mean to hijack...but can someone point me in the direction for pricing for the ES horns? I cant find a website or anything (does he have one yet???)....I didnt want to bother him (Eric) with that if it can be found elsewhere.

Good luck with the build.....looking forward to hear about the results.


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I dont think he has a website setup yet. best to contact him directly. dont quote me, but I think the standard horn is about $300 and the ultras are about $650.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

minbari said:


> I dont think he has a website setup yet. best to contact him directly. dont quote me, but I think the standard horn is about $300 and the ultras are about $650.


Thanks!


----------



## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Broshi said:


> Just got my package in the mail from Eric Stevens (thanks again!!), and I've done a mockup install to see what will work. Had to trim off a fair amount from the edges to fit properly, but they work great!! My only real issue is that after auditioning these, right out of the box they are a little crisp to the ears. Even after a little tuning, I'm still finding them a little difficult to listen to. It's not that they are unbearable, rather I am trying to really bring these out to a crystal clear front.
> 
> I had a spectacular tune at one point, but it was after setting most gains <-15db on my 3sixty.3 which the output was rather low. I'm running a Rockford Fosgate 300x2 to these which seems to be a decent match, but is there a way to get these loud AND clear? I'd honestly prefer it if I wasn't spoon fed here because I feel the need to learn for myself, but to be pointed in the correct direction for these would be more than appreciated. I'm just stepping into HLCD, and I really want to get this right so I can prove their worth to others.



Wanted to add to the other post about EQ.

Did you go with the 3 ea P300x2 like we discussed? 

You might need to set gains on your midbass first and then bring in the horns to the right level. I would turn up the output of the 360.3 for the mids to -0dB and leave the amp gain where you can get into a noticeable clipping distortion level when the source unit is at full unclipped/distorted output, then with the gain on the horn amp just above minimum 1/8 or so bring horns up on the output of the 360.3 to match levels with the midbass.

Next you will want to go through setting your phase of the front end. Start with subwoofers off and everything in electrically correct polarity and delays in 360.3 all set at 0ms in normal polarity. Reverse the polarity of the right horn and right midbass, listen to the system for a good center image I like to use track 3 on IASCA CD and listen to in-phase/ out of phase for this, next listen to height of sound stage, if low reverse polarity/phase of *both *horns (if reversed you will now have the left horn in reversed polairity/phase and the right in normal polarity/phase) relisten to confirm its correct, I like to use track 12 from IASCA CD with the trhee voices for let center and right. Last but not least you will turn the subwoofers back on and set the phase to where they anchor/blend with the front best.

Then you can proceed to EQ

Eric


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Eric Stevens said:


> Wanted to add to the other post about EQ.
> 
> Did you go with the 3 ea P300x2 like we discussed?
> 
> ...


Could this be considered general tuning recommendations?


----------



## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

bassfromspace said:


> Could this be considered general tuning recommendations?



By all means the outline I provided fits into general tuning recomendations even for direct radiator systems

Eric


----------



## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

you should really work on that white paper we talked about eric.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Broshi said:


> Just got my package in the mail from Eric Stevens (thanks again!!), and I've done a mockup install to see what will work. Had to trim off a fair amount from the edges to fit properly, but they work great!! My only real issue is that after auditioning these, right out of the box they are a little crisp to the ears. Even after a little tuning, I'm still finding them a little difficult to listen to. It's not that they are unbearable, rather I am trying to really bring these out to a crystal clear front.
> 
> I had a spectacular tune at one point, but it was after setting most gains <-15db on my 3sixty.3 which the output was rather low. I'm running a Rockford Fosgate 300x2 to these which seems to be a decent match, but is there a way to get these loud AND clear? I'd honestly prefer it if I wasn't spoon fed here because I feel the need to learn for myself, but to be pointed in the correct direction for these would be more than appreciated. I'm just stepping into HLCD, and I really want to get this right so I can prove their worth to others.


Do you have some way to measure these? Even one of the free apps for an iPhone iPad or Android will do a world of good.

There's a lot of variables with horns, and trying to tune them 'by ear' isn't ideal IMHO

Just off the top of my head, all of these will have an impact on the response:

1) The termination between the horn and the car (a smooth termination makes a huge difference)
2) the choice of compression driver (every one will measure/sound different)
3) Angle of the HLCD
4) Height of the HLCD
5) Choice of HLCD
6) xover slope and frequency


Way too many variables to juggle without a way to quantify things


----------



## sh.moto.2 (Jul 2, 2010)

just do like they do in the hood.... turn everything to the right as far as it goes.... even the subsonic:laugh:


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Horsemanwill said:


> you should really work on that white paper we talked about eric.


What is this white paper you speaketh of?


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

bigbubba said:


> What is this white paper you speaketh of?


It's like the red paper, just not as red!


----------



## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

red, white, pink,purple, I don't care what color the paper is. I've been nagging eric to do a full right up on tuning of the horns and make it a sticky lol


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> It's like the red paper, just not as red!


Thanks for trying to clear that up for me.....but you didn't. :laugh:


----------



## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Horsemanwill said:


> red, white, pink,purple, I don't care what color the paper is. I've been nagging eric to do a full right up on tuning of the horns and make it a sticky lol


I'd definitely be interested in reading that, if he does it. I'll be installing my mini horns soon.


----------



## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

bigbubba said:


> *I'd definitely be interested in reading that, if he does it.* I'll be installing my mini horns soon.


see that eric hint hint nudge nudge


----------



## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Pics of the install may help - are they level with the floor? Got any gap between the horn and the underdash? 

Might get a bit of diffraction too. 

Kelvin


----------



## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

Sorry for the time taken to respond! I followed the recommendations made and everything has turned out stellar! Based on the base that Eric left, I was able to bring the horns out quite a bit so they are extremely pleasing to listen to! With regards to my drivers, I have almost entirely level matched them with my horns and between the horns and drivers, they are almost outperforming my two 12" subs in the trunk. 

With regards to the install, both horns are level horizontally and entirely inline with the edge of the dash facing roughly 10 degrees downward. I feel as though they could be mounted better at a different angle, but they are great as they are.

I did a little research on my drivers and found the 6nd410. What makes the 430 superior to the 410? I just have to know lol. My drivers as they are have a HPF at 150Hz and have a steady roll off at 1KHz. I definitely feel as though they could use a better tune. Time and patience will allow me to bring them out more.


----------



## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

430 = Midbass+Midrange 
410 = Midrange ONLY 

Kelvin


----------



## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

subwoofery said:


> 430 = Midbass+Midrange
> 410 = Midrange ONLY
> 
> Kelvin


Thanks a ton for clearing that up! Must have slipped past the crossover specs.


----------



## Reece514 (Mar 11, 2013)

Could you use an auto tune device? Maybe an Audison Bit tune?


----------



## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

I used autotune with my p01


----------



## Reece514 (Mar 11, 2013)

I was gonna take mine to an Audison dealer that has a BitTune when I'm finished with the install. I'm using a Voce 5.1k and a BitOne. How effective do you think the auto tune will be?


----------



## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

I set the xover points I wanted and let it do the ta it did it very well.


----------



## Reece514 (Mar 11, 2013)

Sweet!! Thanks!!


----------

