# Putting a home system together... Need suggestions



## DavidRam

I have never owned a good home audio system, cuz I have been one of those fools who would buy the Bose systems with a bunch of little cube speakers...  

Anyways, I want to put a decent, yet budget system together for my living room. 
Preferably floor speakers, powered sub and receiver... (I think) Or am I better of doing bookshelf speakers with my budget?


- Budget $1,000-$1,500 for everything :blush:

- For music only (NO tv or movies)

- Must have coax/digital input for my Fiio


I have been reading a lot about Elac's speakers... Not sure how they compare to the other similar priced ones like Polk..?

About the receivers, I see Onkyo and Yamaha all over, but they look like the same big things from years ago... Are there some cool boutique brands doing something a little more modern or different??

I know very little about this stuff; any and all suggestions are appreciated!


----------



## bnae38

I used BIC speakers when i threw mine together years ago, good price/performance ratio imo. Bought the powered sub too.

Fwiw, i'm no expert on the subject either though 

https://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-...1526244425&sr=8-1&keywords=BIC+America+DV62si

https://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-...id=1526244466&sr=1-1&keywords=BIC+America+F12


https://www.amazon.com/BIC-AMERICA-...6244492&sr=1-1&keywords=BIC+AMERICA+DV-52CLRB


----------



## Holmz

I have a 30 year old Vandersteen's and a similar vintage amp(s), so I never needed a Bose.
The only thing I would replace that with is a set of home made speakers or horns, or electrostatics. I do not know about the Elac but used speakers may be worth a look at.

If you run a headphone to RCA cableout of your Fiio , then you do not need a digital input receiver.
You do not need a receiver at all.
Just an amp, and then control the volume with the Fiio.


Maybe ask yourself what makes nice sound?
Usually speakers that play flat sound better.

The alternative is a DSP to flatten a lesser speaker.

I would encourage you to venture up century BLVD to George Meyers and see what they have used. Just go and listen and get some ideas. You could get a nice old McIntosh receiver for $1500. That would sound good with horns and a separate sub.

I think you may need more coins for something nice.


----------



## DavidRam

This is an idea of what I'm after...


----------



## Holmz

It has a lot of speakers. Reminds me a bit of a Bose.


----------



## miniSQ

I don't think you need a powered sub with full range speakers for 2 channel stereo only.

I think you can pick up a used amp like a B&K or Adcom and a preamp for your fiio. Then find some nice speakers ( new or used ) The Vandersteen 2ci's would be a nice choice.


----------



## Holmz

miniSQ said:


> I don't think you need a powered sub with full range speakers for 2 channel stereo only.
> 
> I think you can pick up a used amp like a B&K or Adcom and a preamp for your fiio. Then find some nice speakers ( new or used ) The Vandersteen 2ci's would be a nice choice.


Or as those speakers can be bi-amped, get a couple of (5-10W) stereo class-A kit amps and use one for each side. Those are a couple hundred each I think.
Maybe with a Nakamichi active crossover before the amps?

The powered sub should be ok if it is tuned low (<30Hz) and not super apparent. It should work good with low powered amps on the main speaker as it removes a lot of power need in the low freq band.


----------



## Lycancatt

frankly I'd be building this from local craigslist. you live where I used to live and theres a ton of good stuff all the time. friend living in manhatton beach just bought jbl lx44s and a merantz receiver for like $300 total and added an infinity home powered sub for another $200..ended up buying the sub from one of our old teachers lol.

i'll poke around later and put some links up here. theres an audio reseller guy off pier avenue and 14th also that's really cool if hes still around.


----------



## DavidRam

Thanks for all the ideas so far guys!!

I really want an awesome listening experience... Any opinions on bookcase vs. floor? Am I gaining that much with big ones?


----------



## miniSQ

DavidRam said:


> Thanks for all the ideas so far guys!!
> 
> I really want an awesome listening experience... Any opinions on bookcase vs. floor? Am I gaining that much with big ones?


If i was doing a powered sub, i would shop for some used dynaudio bookshelf speakers.


----------



## DeLander

Or, staying with the DIY theme :

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/
You can read a lot about the products on:

DIY Speakers and Subs - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Lots of bang for the buck.


----------



## Lycancatt

a used pair or even a new pair of studio monitors like the jbl lsr308 would be just about right. find some alesis m2 big monitors and an amp and you could be in happy place for half your budget


----------



## Lycancatt

to add, I'd bet the dac in your fiio is better than most dacs in receivers or integrated amps in your price range, so I think going headphone out to a simple receiver with remote for volume would be the ticket here.


----------



## Lycancatt

this amp
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/ele/d/rotel-2ch-amplifier/6566187451.html

controlled by this
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/d/rotel-hi-fi-stereo-control/6577470138.html

powering these
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ele/d/pair-of-speakers-wharfedale/6588108347.html

or these..yeah definitely these lol, I might even know who this is.
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/d/jbl-4410-studio-vintage/6588030229.html

or these
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/d/kef-c20-english-bookshelf/6583491465.html
paired with this
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ele/d/sunfire-subwoofer/6588018963.html


----------



## Lycancatt

or avoid the rotel stuff and get this integrated amp, I miss mine.
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/ele/d/nad-3030-stereophonic/6581879663.html


----------



## ca90ss

https://ventura.craigslist.org/ele/d/tmh-tesseract-speaker-system/6555018235.html

Add a mini dsp and some amps and you should be able to stay within your budget.


----------



## Lycancatt

oh that is bad ass! add 2 qsc gx3 and a gx5 and a pro audio crossover like Ashley xr2000 or dbx 234


----------



## Viggen

Many of those type of tower speakers do need a sub, they are usually very lacking in the low end, to me they are usually also lacking in mid bass

I would take a used set of speakers before something like those. If you get the correct speakers a sub isn’t needed . As stated craigslist is a great way to get really good stuff for great prices.

Also visiting audio forums like home theatre shack, audiogon and avsforum all have a used section, great deals to be had.

I use old infinity kappa speakers, they were made in the early 90’s and can be had for similar money to what those speakers and sub would cost and will sound far superior. The kappa 8.1 has a 12in bass driver and with a good amp a sub isn’t needed for music. Numerous grea pre amps are available and presently I use the gfa-5500 for my amp which I want to upgrade one of these days. I use mine for HT and audio so I use a Integra pre/pro


----------



## Holmz

Viggen said:


> Many of those type of tower speakers do need a sub, they are usually very lacking in the low end, to me they are usually also lacking in mid bass
> ...


^Which means that bookshelf speakers would be fine.^

I think there are 2 basic decent paths to go.
1) powering the speakers with a stereo amp
2) using multiple amps.

_Let's assume that you have some metrics or attributes for what makes good sound.
For me the reasoning is that one generally wants speakers that play flat, and good phase in the crossover band. So it means either good speakers, or a DSP to make it all flat and smooth, and no phase fights in the crossover band.

If you know what you want it to have for sound then there is the bling factor.
I would rather have a small bookshelf speaker and a tube amp(s) than big towers, but I like bling._

With #1 then you would want speakers that play flat, and good phase in the crossover band.
Hence the Vandersteen 2C, 2ci, or the bookshelf model 1b mentioned spring to mind.

For #2...
Now if you are going to add a sub and a DSP, then you could run anything.
So maybe a DDRC 88A-BM?

Then if one was to use a regular speaker, just rip the crossover out and bi-amp it.
If it was me, I would make something...
Likely horns and a scanspeak wu18, and then have a sub below 100-120Hz.

And I would also use a 5-10W on the horns, and maybe 20-50W on the woofers.

A sub can have a large amp... even 100W into an 8-ohm sub should be enough, and used 100W amps are ubiquitous, or just get a big class-D. I would make these small boxes with a passive radiator tuned low.


----------



## robtr8

I'd add eBay and Audiogon.com to your resources.

Cambridge Audio DAC magic plus.
Proton D1200 amp. Love them VU's.
Linn Ninka's in cherry or maple.

Or do a Linn 5105 or 5125 amp with Aktiv cards.

Speakers are as much about getting a fine piece of furniture as much as getting a nice sounding system. At Least it is if you have a wife.


----------



## ThorzHammer

If you can, try to demo a set of Magnepan speakers. The MMGi model would fit your current budget. You could always upgrade to a larger pair down the road. 

When my little sister passed away I placed my Magenpan MG1.5QRs in storage for a couple of years while I used her Infinity Overture 3 speakers. I had the Maggies stored at my sis-in-law's home and just recently pulled them and hooked them up again. The Overtures sound good and will play much louder than the Maggies but there's just something special about the Maggie's soundstage and imaging that the Overtures just cannot match. And even though the Overtures go lower, the Maggie's bass just sounds better and more "real" than the Overtures.


----------



## Grinder

With all the excellent suggestions so far, I'm pretty much at a loss ...so what about DIY DML?

DML Flat Panel | Parts Express Project Gallery









ca90ss said:


> https://ventura.craigslist.org/ele/d/tmh-tesseract-speaker-system/6555018235.html
> 
> Add a mini dsp and some amps and you should be able to stay within your budget.


While I'm certainly no expert, of all the suggestions so far, I find this ^^^^^ most intriguing.


----------



## pw91686

The pioneer Andrew jones series are really good budget speakers. I replaced those with some polk lsi speakers I found on Facebook marketplace, but it really wasn’t much of an upgrade to be honest. 

The bic America f12 subwoofer is the bust budget subwoofer you can get hands down! I would highly recommend this. 

https://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F12-475-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B0015A8Y5M


----------



## bassfromspace

Here's my suggestion:

Behringer 215XL-164.95x2
Dayton Audio Sub 1500-198x2
Pioneer VSX-523-249
Miscellaneous cables-150

You could throw in a dsp and still be under your $1500. And this system, when tuned correctly, willl give you a reference level, hi-resolution system with gobs of clean output. It'll stomp anything mentioned thus far.

Here's a thread concerning the beauty of the Behringers:

Behringer Eurolive B215XL 15" 2-Way as L/R Mains - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews


----------



## Grinder

bassfromspace said:


> ...It'll stomp anything mentioned thus far...


----------



## Lycancatt

Grinder said:


>



in output yes, in clean sound that's pleasant for long periods of time? only with a dsp and still crossing from a 15 to a 1 horn is hugely compromised..i'd pass on this but cant say I don't love the output capabilities it'd have lol


----------



## lincoln88

When I delved into HT a few years ago, I couldn't afford to invest to much, but I also didn't want to get a cheap 'all in one' package. I've been happy with Polk's Tsi series. I was able to get every speaker off their Ebay store open boxed, for cheap. It just took a few months of looking to find matching pieces.

My SVS sub is probably a little out of your price range, but definitely worth it if you can swing it. I'm really happy with the pb-1000.


----------



## bassfromspace

Lycancatt said:


> in output yes, in clean sound that's pleasant for long periods of time? only with a dsp and still crossing from a 15 to a 1 horn is hugely compromised..i'd pass on this but cant say I don't love the output capabilities it'd have lol


Technically, you're not running a 15" to a 1" tweeter. You're running a 15" to a horn-loaded 1' compression driver. The horn will play much lower.

In terms of the quality of the setup, click the link in my initial post. The thread starter does audio reviews for a living, so is exposed to quality audio on a regular basis and he's compared the Berry/sub combo to some MUCH more expensive setups with interesting results.


----------



## Lycancatt

I did read the link, and the link from it to his review. if it works, it works. I come from a pro audio background and fully understand horn loading, and also have heard very few boxes that go from a 15 to a 1 cleanly. can it be done? sure it can, did behry do it? no idea..but with there usual quality standards I'm hardpressed to believe it. will I likely go find a pair locally and have a listen? yes I will.


----------



## bassfromspace

Lycancatt said:


> I did read the link, and the link from it to his review. if it works, it works. I come from a pro audio background and fully understand horn loading, and also have heard very few boxes that go from a 15 to a 1 cleanly. can it be done? sure it can, did behry do it? no idea..but with there usual quality standards I'm hardpressed to believe it. will I likely go find a pair locally and have a listen? yes I will.


I'd be interested in your thoughts on them.


----------



## Grinder

bassfromspace said:


> I'd be interested in your thoughts on them.


^^^^^ x2


----------



## DavidRam

*Guys, thanks again for all the of the suggestions so far!!!*

I do have one little issue with buying used... Our home's interior design and decor is rather sophisticated and mid-century-modern/contemporary and my wife would kill me if I showed up with some big rock concert looking speakers! 
My living room system would quickly become a patio system, if you catch my drift (I would come home and my beloved speakers would be sitting outside)... Lol
I do need them to look really clean, modern and new, AND be on the smaller side.


----------



## DavidRam

Another issue, I like my music rather bass heavy, or at least have the capability to jar the fillings in my teeth loose when I feel like it... So I definitely can't imagine myself without a powered subwoofer.


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> *Guys, thanks again for all the of the suggestions so far!!!*
> 
> I do have one little issue with buying used... Our home's interior design and decor is rather sophisticated and mid-century-modern/contemporary and my wife would kill me if I showed up with some big rock concert looking speakers!
> My living room system would quickly become a patio system, if you catch my drift (I would come home and my beloved speakers would be sitting outside)... Lol
> I do need them to look really clean, modern and new, AND be on the smaller side.


Ah, yes... the dreaded WAF. 

What would be the maximum height, width and depth of each: towers, bookshelves and sub (or subs?)?


----------



## Lycancatt

build stuff. that's why we are here and you can talor the look and sound like nothing else.

find a proven low cost design, build it into a box you like and your wife likes..we call it waf 'wife approval factor" btw..build a pair of powered subs and your done.

something like a ported ten downfiring in a box that acts as the stand for a pair of 6.5 mids and tweeter..or hell build thin towers with side firing 12s like the monitor audio stuff used to look.

I believe definitive technologies used to have a set up like above which since they were popular awhile back, might be available used for good pricing.


----------



## Grinder

Lycancatt said:


> *build stuff. that's why we are here and you can talor the look and sound like nothing else*.
> 
> find a proven low cost design, build it into a box you like and your wife likes..we call it waf 'wife approval factor" btw..build a pair of powered subs and your done.
> 
> something like a ported ten downfiring in a box that acts as the stand for a pair of 6.5 mids and tweeter..or hell *build thin towers with side firing 12s* like the monitor audio stuff used to look.
> 
> I believe definitive technologies used to have a set up like above which since they were popular awhile back, might be available used for good pricing.


Exactly what I was thinking.


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Ah, yes... the dreaded WAF.
> 
> What would be the maximum height, width and depth of each: towers, bookshelves and sub (or subs?)?


Height could be up to about 40" width shouldn't exceed 8" though, and depth not more than 10". This would fit in the area they are "aloud" to go! Lol

I have a space for something like a 10" sub in a square box. 




Lycancatt said:


> build stuff. that's why we are here and you can talor the look and sound like nothing else.
> 
> find a proven low cost design, build it into a box you like and your wife likes..we call it waf 'wife approval factor" btw..build a pair of powered subs and your done.
> 
> something like a ported ten downfiring in a box that acts as the stand for a pair of 6.5 mids and tweeter..or hell build thin towers with side firing 12s like the monitor audio stuff used to look.
> 
> I believe definitive technologies used to have a set up like above which since they were popular awhile back, might be available used for good pricing.


I have thought about doing that a lot... Just not sure if I have the confidence in my ability to diy to the level I would want them to be. :blush:

A sub box for a car is easy... Wrap it with carpet and hide all the flaws! :laugh:

Edit: To at least entertain the idea, would PE the place to get the parts for something that?


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Height could be up to about 40" width shouldn't exceed 8" though, and depth not more than 10". This would fit in the area they are "aloud" to go! Lol
> 
> I have a space for something like a 10" sub in a square box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have thought about doing that a lot... *Just not sure if I have the confidence in my ability to diy to the level I would want them to be*. :blush:
> 
> A sub box for a car is easy... Wrap it with carpet and hide all the flaws! :laugh:


You're not alone. :blush:



DavidRam said:


> Edit: To at least entertain the idea, would PE the place to get the parts for something that?


An excellent place to start. They've got lots of speaker kits and knockdown cabinets (and some beautifully finished cabinets too).

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-kits/286

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-cabinets/20

Parts Express Project Gallery


----------



## Lycancatt

in that space, it'd be fun to pack a bunch of drivers and dsp and amps and just see how far you could go. 

something like four eights sealed with a lot of eq firing backwards, with 2 6.5 and tweeter on the front, semi active with a young 500 watt sub plate amp at the back bottom..would be so heavy but would sound great and you built it.

edit..now I want to design this


----------



## Grinder

Lycancatt said:


> in that space, it'd be fun to pack a bunch of drivers and dsp and amps and just see how far you could go.
> 
> *something like four eights sealed with a lot of eq* firing backwards, with 2 6.5 and tweeter on the front, semi active with a young 500 watt sub plate amp at the back bottom..would be so heavy but would sound great and you built it.
> 
> edit..now I want to design this


I built something similar last year. However, with the excess cabinet volume of the midbass section :blush:, I could have had three 8" subs per cabinet (firing to the rear), instead of just the two. As it turned out though, I ended up venting the midbass (to decent effect, but would rather have had another sub in there ...though I'm not sure how well rear-firing subs would have worked for me). Will soon remove the RF passives (horrible...), and go active with the RF midbass and tweets. As-is though, with a ton of 30 Hz EQ, those four Skar IX-8s do the job pretty well.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ar-audio-test-rig-computer-sound-project.html (post #12)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...audio-test-rig-computer-sound-project-14.html (post #331)


----------



## jamesjones

This guy....

https://www.reddit.com/r/Zeos/

does pretty good reviews of budget home theater stuff. I've used a few of his recommendations and been pleased with the results.


----------



## rayray881

Has anybody even mentioned the most important factor? THE ROOM! Just like the car, you are listening to the environment not speakers. I have never heard a decent stereo that didn’t have a uniform room, proper speaker placement, and some wall treatments. If you plan on just placing speakers at a specified spot on either side of the tv, don’t expect perfection no matter the speaker of choice.


----------



## DavidRam

How about the receiver or amplifier? I would really prefer not to have a big bulky old school looking thing... Something smaller and sleek would be my preference.

I don't need radio. Just basic inputs for my Fiio, a TV and a CD player.

I like these things: 
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/wireless_streaming_amplifiers/wxa-50_u/index.html
https://www.elac.com/product/debut-series-da101eq-g-integrated-amplifier/?r=us


----------



## Old Skewl

DavidRam said:


> How about the receiver or amplifier? I would really prefer not to have a big bulky old school looking thing... Something smaller and sleek would be my preference.
> 
> I don't need radio. Just basic inputs for my Fiio, a TV and a CD player.
> 
> I like these things:
> https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/wireless_streaming_amplifiers/wxa-50_u/index.html
> https://www.elac.com/product/debut-series-da101eq-g-integrated-amplifier/?r=us


IMO, those amps above are a compromise. I use the NAD D3020 hooked up to my TV via optical cable to a set of JBL L1 and an M&K sub. I can BT from a phone or tablet too. It sounds decent and gets moderately loud, but nothing like the B&K MC101 pre-amp and ST-202 amp that it replaced. Reason I switched was the TV sounded horrible by itself and the amp turns itself on when it gets the optical signal from the TV. 

So you need to decide if aesthetics are the important thing here or a nice sounding system. Is there a closet you can mount the receiver/amp in to get it out of view? If aesthetics are important, book shelves on stands and a sub will take up less space and be less obtrusive. On the other hand some speakers sound pretty damn nice with out a sub. I hooked back up my B&K Preamp/Amp to my JBL book shelves last week-end without the sub and I was not wanting any more low end. Hooked up to the little NAD, the low end is lacking.


----------



## EmptyKim

DavidRam said:


> Height could be up to about 40" width shouldn't exceed 8" though, and depth not more than 10".
> 
> Edit: To at least entertain the idea, would PE the place to get the parts for something that?


Here too: https://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-pack-cabinets/kit-flat-packs.html


----------



## Viggen

Seeing what you have done to various vehicles in the past I don’t see you being happy with that Yamaha or elac products. I am also one who enjoys a lively low end thus for me a large cabinet is something I can live with. Seems like a quality set of bookshelf speakers will make the boss I mean wife happy, them get a sub or two when you can to fill in the low end. With your skills you could also probably pretty easily make a kick ass DIY sub that would fit your house, make the wife happy and fit the decor of your house.


----------



## DeLander

I mentioned it before. Dude, seriously, check out this site
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/
and read a bit on here DIY Speakers and Subs - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
These guys are serious about speakers.


----------



## naiku

pw91686 said:


> The bic America f12 subwoofer is the bust budget subwoofer you can get hands down! I would highly recommend this.


Picked one of these up a few years ago for movie duty, if you like bass then I would absolutely recommend one. 



bassfromspace said:


> Pioneer VSX-523-249


Also, have one of these in the basement for movie duty, does a nice enough job for that on a couple older Polk towers.


----------



## DavidRam

Viggen said:


> Seeing what you have done to various vehicles in the past I don’t see you being happy with that Yamaha or elac products. I am also one who enjoys a lively low end thus for me a large cabinet is something I can live with. Seems like a quality set of bookshelf speakers will make the boss I mean wife happy, them get a sub or two when you can to fill in the low end. With your skills you could also probably pretty easily make a kick ass DIY sub that would fit your house, make the wife happy and fit the decor of your house.


You make a good point... Though, I keep going back to bookshelf speakers, and then I think of having to get stands and that would take up a similar footprint of comparable floor speakers. 



Sorry, I am all over the place... I think I am going to eliminate buying used because of not having a warranty, and they would most likely have some wear and tear. 
Sadly, I have to consider appearance as important as the sound quality in this situation... Lol :blush:
My experience with electronics in general has been, it's a damn good idea to have a warranty, if at all possible.


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> I mentioned it before. Dude, seriously, check out this site
> https://www.diysoundgroup.com/
> and read a bit on here DIY Speakers and Subs - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
> These guys are serious about speakers.


Imna check it right now! ty!

Edit: I'll be damned, I already am a member on AVS under the same username... I guess I forgot about that.


----------



## miniSQ

If the WAF is in play here, i think the dynes i suggested earlier would work, or these from Monitor Audio. Silver 5's.

https://www.ebay.com/i/323173899134?chn=ps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hA7MlEP6fU


----------



## DeLander

DavidRam said:


> Imna check it right now! ty!


Really. Look into this option. Lots of people on avsforum use speakers from diysoundgroup. The designers, owner of DIYSG, and many members are on the forum to help if you have any concerns or questions about ANYTHING. Ask me how I know. 
Flat packs are available for most speaker designs. But, the cool thing is, you can change enclosure design ( within reason ) on pretty much all of the speakers. And, you can build them out of whatever you want - from MDF to any exotic hardwood your heart desires. Some of the builds on avs are absolutely stunning. 
Just depends on how much you want to put into them.


----------



## Grinder

rayray881 said:


> Has anybody even mentioned the most important factor? THE ROOM! Just like the car, you are listening to the environment not speakers. I have never heard a decent stereo that didn’t have a uniform room, proper speaker placement, and some wall treatments. *If you plan on just placing speakers at a specified spot on either side of the tv, don’t expect perfection no matter the speaker of choice*.


Indeed. However, more often than not (IME) there are unfortunate room layout limitations and/or WAF restrictions (i.e. whether we like it or not, it usually just is what it is).


----------



## DeLander

The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Pair this with an Inuke3000DSP and you sub situation is taken care of for around $400. You can run up to 8 of these cabs of that one amp ?
Match that with something from the HTM or Fusion lines on DIYSG and a stereo receiver of your choice and you’re set. 
Would be well under your budget and able to satisfy your needs- both SQ wise and volume wise. 
If you want BIG sound, this setup would do it. Or you could opt for the Titan design speakers.


----------



## Grinder

DeLander said:


> The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
> Pair this with an Inuke3000DSP and you sub situation is taken care of for around $400. You can run up to 8 of these cabs of that one amp ?
> Match that with something from the HTM or Fusion lines on DIYSG and a stereo receiver of your choice and you’re set.
> Would be well under your budget and able to satisfy your needs- both SQ wise and volume wise.
> If you want BIG sound, this setup would do it. Or you could opt for the Titan design speakers.


C'mon, man... A vented 18" woofer?  

OP has room for one 10" cube.


----------



## robtr8

I have two Eames chairs, in cherry, in the living room. I get it.
Fine case goods are a requirement, not an option.
Linn, Monitor Audio, B&W, Spendor, Quad.
Thing is, new, you’re paying quite a bit for some very nice furniture that happens to play music.
Most speakers need a ton of hours to break in. Why not let someone else do it?
Would I buy a used Audi without a Certified warranty?
No, did it, didn’t like it.
But speakers aren’t Audi’s.


----------



## Viggen

DavidRam said:


> You make a good point... Though, I keep going back to bookshelf speakers, and then I think of having to get stands and that would take up a similar footprint of comparable floor speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I am all over the place... I think I am going to eliminate buying used because of not having a warranty, and they would most likely have some wear and tear.
> Sadly, I have to consider appearance as important as the sound quality in this situation... Lol :blush:
> My experience with electronics in general has been, it's a damn good idea to have a warranty, if at all possible.


Yea that’s how I feel, bookshelf are smaller however they need to sit on something. One of these days I want set of IRS Beta speakers.... 

I get what your saying about electronics however a quality brand it’s not a issue. My Denon avr 3000 has been 100% trouble free, it’s 25-26 years old, purchased it new which had been relegated to garage duty along with my BIC Venturi speakers. I have a similar vintage Adcom amp, which has been trouble free as well, purchased it used 6+ years ago and it’s probably similar vintage of my Denon. Getting used you can get far superior stuff for similar money as new.... however yes it can be a gamble.... get what let’s you sleep better at night 

I have two Onkyo Integra pre/pro, their DHC9.8 and DHC80.1 (I think that’s the model), both have failed on me at least 3 times, Onkyo fixed them every time even when they were out of the 3yr warranty. Even though I am very impressed they warranties the issues with those units (both had HDMI failure) more then likely next time around Anthem or Marantz is what I will try. 

Looking at upgrading my old Adcom to d-sonic amps.... need more powah


----------



## DeLander

Grinder said:


> C'mon, man... A vented 18" woofer?
> 
> OP has room for one 10" cube.


That was the point about building them however you want. People make beautiful end tables, armoires, etc that are enclosures for subs. You’d never know it unless you were told.


----------



## DeLander

Also, depending on the speaker chosen, a sub may not be necessary anyway. Just throwing out options for Ram.


----------



## Grinder

DeLander said:


> That was the point about building them however you want. People make beautiful end tables, armoires, etc that are enclosures for subs. You’d never know it unless you were told.


Excellent. Thinking outside the "box." :2thumbsup:



DeLander said:


> Also, depending on the speaker chosen, a sub may not be necessary anyway. Just throwing out options for Ram.


Understood. :beerchug:


----------



## DavidRam

A guy on AVS recommended this:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022AS...4_UMZfS3R8IwmJjOycnWrnEduq-tfomMaAheEEALw_wcB

Looks pretty bad ass, despite being a big huge thing! Comes in black, too...


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> A guy on AVS recommended this:
> 
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022AS...4_UMZfS3R8IwmJjOycnWrnEduq-tfomMaAheEEALw_wcB
> 
> Looks pretty bad ass, despite being a big huge thing! Comes in black, too...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> omes in black, too...


Nice!

Now, all you need is a pair (2x) of these (at 38" x 8.75" x 11" they're slightly deeper and wider than your spec, if that's okay): https://www.parts-express.com/solstice-mltl-reference-tower-speaker-kit--300-708 

...and add the finish of your choice.


----------



## Grinder

Hmmmm... Just watched the video... Sure is some dodgy gluing (<edit> and soldering, and crossover location & mounting) going on there...

Also, while I'm certainly no expert, the interior doesn't resemble any T-line I've ever seen. Just looks like a rather short slot port. What am I missing?

Also, in case it's not already abundantly clear, I have no familiarity with these speakers ...just thought they seemed like a nice option.


----------



## DeLander

Get on the DIY section of AVS and READ some threads about DIYSG speakers. You don’t need much power to drive them to insane volumes given their high sensitivity. This also depends on your listening habits. 
There is great value in DIY because you’re not paying anyone’s salary, R&D, marketing, overhead, etc.


----------



## Holmz

DavidRam said:


> A guy on AVS recommended this:
> 
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022AS...4_UMZfS3R8IwmJjOycnWrnEduq-tfomMaAheEEALw_wcB
> 
> Looks pretty bad ass, despite being a big huge thing! Comes in black, too...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> omes in black, too...


The Bose look good too...

What attributes are you after for both sound, and for looks?
Outlining that can help to come to an optimal solution.

For instance...
The maggies are not super loud/efficient, but they can tick a lot of boxes in sound and looks.
Horns said can be efficient and also tick many boxes.


----------



## Grinder

DeLander said:


> Get on the DIY section of AVS and READ some threads about DIYSG speakers. You don’t need much power to drive them to insane volumes given their high sensitivity. This also depends on your listening habits.
> There is great value in DIY because you’re not paying anyone’s salary, R&D, marketing, overhead, etc.


I'm surprised that there doesn't appear to be any DIYSG towers (and the one floor standing model is far beyond OP's width requirement).


----------



## EmptyKim

Grinder said:


> I'm surprised that there doesn't appear to be any DIYSG towers (and the one floor standing model is far beyond OP's width requirement).


Maybe MTM? I remember seeing the floor standing version on DIYSG before, at least I thought I did. Someone here is building one:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-diy-home-mtm-tower-speaker-seas-drivers.html

Parts Express has it

https://www.parts-express.com/parts...-knock-down-cnc-speaker-cabinet-pair--300-701


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Nice!
> 
> Now, all you need is a pair (2x) of these (at 38" x 8.75" x 11" they're slightly deeper and wider than your spec, if that's okay): https://www.parts-express.com/solstice-mltl-reference-tower-speaker-kit--300-708
> 
> ...and add the finish of your choice.


I looked at those and loved em! I am a big fan of Morel drivers, too. I wish I had the skill and patience to build my own...


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> I looked at those and loved em! I am a big fan of Morel drivers, too. I wish I had the skill and patience to build my own...


So, to be clear, are DIY/kit/flat pack speakers out of the question?


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> So, to be clear, are DIY speakers out of the question?


I think so... I love anything and everything diy in the car environment, but this is different. 
I am not trying to get a world class system, just the best components I can get for my meager budget. I'll do whatever it takes in car audio, because that is my passion.

This home system will get used once or twice a week for just a few minutes at the most. For longer listening I prefer my headphone set-up: Senn HD650s and Shiit Audio dac and amp.


*
Have you guys seen Canton speakers??*

https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...eakers/floor-standing-speakers/1.html?brand_f[]=CANTON


----------



## DeLander

Grinder said:


> So, to be clear, are DIY/kit/flat pack speakers out of the question?


I would hope not. All you need to assemble them is wood glue and masking/painters tape to hold the pieces together until the glue sets. 
Also remember, all DIYSG kits ( not flat packs ) include the front baffle. If doing the rest on your own, you just need to keep the internal volume the same. You can alter the baffle to a degree as well.


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> I would hope not. All you need to assemble them is wood glue and masking/painters tape to hold the pieces together until the glue sets.
> Also remember, all DIYSG kits ( not flat packs ) include the front baffle. If doing the rest on your own, you just need to keep the internal volume the same. You can alter the baffle to a degree as well.


The assembly part is easy, it's finishing the cabinet that concerns me... I want the speakers to look really good and have a perfect finish. My rattle can skills are the worst I have seen!


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> The assembly part is easy, it's finishing the cabinet that concerns me... I want the speakers to look really good and have a perfect finish. My rattle can skills are the worst I have seen!


Might a pair of these cabinets fit the bill? https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...ft-mtm-curved-speaker-cabinet-cherry--302-743

More: https://www.parts-express.com/cat/hi-fi-speaker-cabinets/288

...and maybe add an MTM kit + baffle from DIYSG?


----------



## DeLander

Pain, Duratex, veneer,fabric...... you can finish them however you want. Just have to take your time. Stain grade plywood is an excellent material. You can stain it any color you want -great WAF. ?


----------



## DeLander

Check this build out ??
Fusion 8 and Ulitmax 8 tower module build! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Check this build out ??
> Fusion 8 and Ulitmax 8 tower module build! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews


Beautiful work!!!


----------



## DeLander

See..... that’s exactly what you’re looking for. ?
You can do it with h a little patience and work. You could do everything just like this. Build the boxes out of MDF, cover with veneer, stain as wanted. Or paint them. It’s all up to you. And this build is WAAAAY under your posted budget. Get input from I’m others in the hous about finishing them. It is always good to get them involved - helps keep them happy?

Just think how much a speaker like this would cost if you bought it retail. That’s the big difference. Not really different than using raw drivers in the car instead of a boxed component set from a manufacturer.


----------



## DavidRam

Damn it, I'm flip flopping like a politician here... Am I better off looking at bookshelf speakers and a sub, given my space limitations and budget?

I keep measuring some of these floor units and they are going to seem massive in the space they are going in. Though the foot print of a bookshelf speaker and a stand is similar, they won't feel so bulky (me thinks)...

In terms of sound, what does a good floor speaker do that a comparable bookshelf speaker and sub can't? In other words, what do I loose if I choose bookshelf and sub vs floor and no sub?


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Damn it, I'm flip flopping like a politician here... Am I better off looking at bookshelf speakers and a sub, given my space limitations and budget?
> 
> I keep measuring some of these floor units and they are going to seem massive in the space they are going in. Though the foot print of a bookshelf speaker and a stand is similar, they won't feel so bulky (me thinks)...
> 
> In terms of sound, what does a good floor speaker do that a comparable bookshelf speaker and sub can't? In other words, what do I loose if I choose bookshelf and sub vs floor and no sub?


It seems to me that bookshelf + sub would be your best BNIB + bass-heavy + SQ bang for your budget + WAF + 8" max width & 10" max depth restrictions.


----------



## Grinder

Might seem like a stupid question, but what do you want from this system that you haven't gotten from your little Bose cubes?


----------



## ca90ss

Any reason you can't do in or on wall speakers if space and aesthetics are so much of a concern?


----------



## Grinder

ca90ss said:


> Any reason you can't do in or on wall speakers if space and aesthetics are so much of a concern?


Ditto. This is mostly why I brought up DMLs.

...but it seems there is also a bling factor here (if I may put it that way). It seems they must be seen (and appreciated for their beauty) as much as heard.


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Might seem like a stupid question, but what do you want from this system that you haven't gotten from your little Bose cubes?


Just a good sounding system with strong output (not unlike my car ). 

I haven't owned a Bose system in a few years, but I always remember being disappointed with the sound. Lol

As I mentioned, it won't get all that much use, hence my lack of interest in putting much work and money into it.


----------



## DavidRam

ca90ss said:


> Any reason you can't do in or on wall speakers if space and aesthetics are so much of a concern?


Renting...  It's a 1,000 sqft apartment, walking distance to the beach. The cheapest home in my neighborhood is about 1 million, and I can't afford that...


----------



## Grinder

It seems you want a very quick, easy, inexpensive (and superlative) solution to a rather narrow (and limiting) set of criteria.

And apt analogy might be: marry in haste, repent at leisure (no pun intended). At least do your homework...


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> ...In terms of sound, what does a good floor speaker do that a comparable bookshelf speaker and sub can't? In other words, what do I loose if I choose bookshelf and sub vs floor and no sub?


Get out and audition all you can. Compare and contrast. Find what you like.


----------



## ca90ss

DavidRam said:


> Renting...  It's a 1,000 sqft apartment, walking distance to the beach. The cheapest home in my neighborhood is about 1 million, and I can't afford that...


Does your lease allow you to hang pictures? Magnepan has some small on wall speakers that shouldn't need a much bigger hole than what a hanging picture would need.
Magnepan


----------



## Viggen

DavidRam said:


> I keep measuring some of these floor units and they are going to seem massive in the space they are going in. Though the foot print of a bookshelf speaker and a stand is similar, they won't feel so bulky (me thinks)...
> 
> In terms of sound, what does a good floor speaker do that a comparable bookshelf speaker and sub can't? In other words, what do I loose if I choose bookshelf and sub vs floor and no sub?


You can always go to Best Buy and purchase a set or two of speakers... listen to the difference between bookshelf + sub vs towers + sub... and also compare how they look. You have 14 days for 100% money back

I think it’s hard to say what you gain or loose with the various setups since the room itself as well as the speakers involved from brand to brand vary so much. I would think typically a bookshelf + sub will not have the midbass of a tower but again it depends on the speakers.


----------



## DeLander

How long are you planning to live in this apartment. Remember, speakers have much longer life spans than the electronics driving them. Make an informed, well thought out decision now, and you could always use them wherever you go next. 
For example, a bookshelf speaker pair ( say Fusion 8 ) and a high output sub will serve you well for stereo listening now. In the future, if you move into a house, you’ll still have the sub to use and then move the Fusion 8s to surround duty in a home theater. 
Basically, don’t just think about your situation now, but with speakers it’s a good idea to try to think ahead a bit. 
I’m building a VBSS sub ( from the AVS forum previously mentioned) for my truck. Yes, it’s an 18” driver in a 6.4 cuft enclosure tuned to 31Hz. For $120 total, driver and MDF, WHY NOT. ? This also give me experience with this particular sub so, in the near future when I’m building my home theater room, I can take it out of the truck and use it or leave it in the truck and buy more for the theater. 
Also, since you’re looking for something for just music ( not movies ), you don’t really need a lot of ULF. Most music doesn’t have much information below around 30 Hz or so. Also remember that room gain( just like cabin gain in a vehicle ) can give a substantial boost to the lower frequencies ( for your head-bangin times )?.


----------



## DeLander

Also, living in an apartment, how much volume/subwoofer rumbling, pounding are you actually going to be able to use before you get a knock on the door ?


----------



## Grinder

So much great feedback in this thread. If it weren't for immediate gratification of seldom-to-be-utilized equipment...


----------



## FlyingEagle

Lycancatt said:


> this amp
> https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/ele/d/rotel-2ch-amplifier/6566187451.html
> 
> controlled by this
> https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/d/rotel-hi-fi-stereo-control/6577470138.html
> 
> powering these
> https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ele/d/pair-of-speakers-wharfedale/6588108347.html
> 
> or these..yeah definitely these lol, I might even know who this is.
> https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/d/jbl-4410-studio-vintage/6588030229.html
> 
> or these
> https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/d/kef-c20-english-bookshelf/6583491465.html
> paired with this
> https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ele/d/sunfire-subwoofer/6588018963.html


I have that amp in silver, plus another 4 Rotel amps used for stereo, through to home theater at 7.0 surround (no sub/s).

You can put together a really good system with some simple components that are anywhere from 10-25+ years old from Rotel. Floor standers will get you below say 50 hz, as bookshelfs just have no punch. Even a set of floor standers with little mids and a passive radiator will only get you down so low before the roll off takes over heavily. 3 way speakers, or a speaker with a powered amp internal can be okay. Definitive Technologies had piano gloss black towers that were the front cover cream back in the late 90's (never got a chance to hear them though!). For your budget, there is tons of awesome gear out there just waiting for a new home!


----------



## DeLander

Grinder said:


> So much great feedback in this thread. If it weren't for immediate gratification of seldom-to-be-utilized equipment...


Exactly. That’s why I’m trying to get him thinking ahead a bit. 
Don’t limit yourself to thinking only about the now, also semi-plan ahead. With speakers, it’s not that hard. With AVRs, the way technology changes, you really can’t buy to be future-proof. It’s just like cell phones and computers.


----------



## DeLander

4 of these
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-um8-22-8-ultimax-dvc-subwoofer-2-ohms-per-coil--295-508
Or these
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rss210ho-8-8-reference-ho-subwoofer-8-ohm--295-459

2 of these
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-...er-series/home-theater-fusions/alchemy-8.html

1 of these
https://www.parts-express.com/behringer-nu3000dsp-inuke-3000-watt-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-6706

And 1 of these
https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...0-watts-networking-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html

Add enclosure materials, cables, speaker wire, etc and you’re looking at an awesome stereo system for now, with a really good base to build upon later if you want. 
Or, you really could get by with 2 subs instead of 4


----------



## Grinder

DeLander said:


> 4 of these
> https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-um8-22-8-ultimax-dvc-subwoofer-2-ohms-per-coil--295-508
> Or these
> https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rss210ho-8-8-reference-ho-subwoofer-8-ohm--295-459
> 
> 2 of these
> https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-...er-series/home-theater-fusions/alchemy-8.html
> 
> 1 of these
> https://www.parts-express.com/behringer-nu3000dsp-inuke-3000-watt-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-6706
> 
> And 1 of these
> https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...0-watts-networking-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html
> 
> Add enclosure materials, cables, speaker wire, etc and you’re looking at an awesome stereo system for now, with a really good base to build upon later if you want.
> Or, you really could get by with 2 subs instead of 4


Fantastic!

If only I'd known of these (or even PE and DIYSG, for that matter) last year, before I built those silly RF Punch Pro + Skar IX-8 towers... 
If only I hadn't been in such a rush... If only I had done my homework...


----------



## DeLander

Another sub build. Just to show, it can be more than just an ugly black box. 
Another Modified VBSS build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews


----------



## Grinder

DeLander said:


> Another sub build. Just to show, it can be more than just an ugly black box.
> Another Modified VBSS build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews


That's awesome. Nice faux finishing of the top as well. 

FWIW, I used to do quite a bit of faux finishing, way back in the late '80s and early '90s; and it's really not terribly difficult. It just takes a bit of patience, practice and experimentation. Nowadays, there are lots of great instructional YouTube videos too (so don't be afraid to give it a try  ).


----------



## DeLander

@DavidRam
What he said ☝


----------



## DavidRam

I'm definitely doing my research and not in a hurry to just buy something and get it over with...

Another reason I am not really excited about a diy approach, is that my car is listed for sale and as soon as it sells, I'll be getting a new car and starting yet another audio build!  

That being said, all options are still on the table (though buying used is the least likely). 

Thanks again guys!!


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> I'm definitely doing my research and not in a hurry to just buy something and get it over with...
> 
> Another reason I am not really excited about a diy approach, is that my car is listed for sale and as soon as it sells, I'll be getting a new car and starting yet another audio build!
> 
> That being said, all options are still on the table (though buying used is the least likely).
> 
> Thanks again guys!!


Glad to hear it! :beerchug:

I'll get off your back now.


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Glad to hear it! :beerchug:
> 
> I'll get off your back now.


Lol!

As much as I don't want to do diy, those PE kd Morels do look like a fun project... :surprised:


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Lol!
> 
> As much as I don't want to do diy, those PE kd Morels do look like a fun project... :surprised:


May I further whet your appetite?


----------



## DeLander

Well allllrighty then. 
I do urge you to read on the DIY section of AVS forum. There are guys there who are more insane with their audio than guys here. Don’t hesitate to post in threads or send PMs to people for guidance or help in any way. Guys there are like guys here- always willing to help and more than happy to talk about their systems ?
Any other ideas or questions for here, don’t be shy.


----------



## DeLander

By the way, Jeff Bagby is one of the main designers of DIYSOUNDGROUP speakers. ?


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> May I further whet your appetite?


Did they seriously play a Kylie Minogue song?!?! Lmao! 

Great demo though, thanks!


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Well allllrighty then.
> I do urge you to read on the DIY section of AVS forum. There are guys there who are more insane with their audio than guys here. Don’t hesitate to post in threads or send PMs to people for guidance or help in any way. Guys there are like guys here- always willing to help and more than happy to talk about their systems ?
> Any other ideas or questions for here, don’t be shy.





DeLander said:


> By the way, Jeff Bagby is one of the main designers of DIYSOUNDGROUP speakers. ?


Are there more kits similar to the PE one that I should look at... I am absolutely, 100% going to draw the line at pre-fab! Lol
If I have to do the measurements and design my own cabinet from scratch, it would definitely not happen.


----------



## DavidRam

Btw, here is the short list:



1. Canton GLE490.2 
https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...3-way-floorstanding-speaker-black-each/1.html

2. Elac Debut F6
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_970F6/ELAC-Debut-F6.html

3. PE Solstice DIY Kit
https://www.parts-express.com/solstice-mltl-reference-tower-speaker-kit--300-708


----------



## DeLander

DavidRam said:


> Are there more kits similar to the PE one that I should look at... I am absolutely, 100% going to draw the line at pre-fab! Lol
> If I have to do the measurements and design my own cabinet from scratch, it would definitely not happen.


Absolutely ! I think every design has a flat pack available. You can even get the crossovers pre assembled if you want. All you’ll have to do is glue the box together, mount the crossover, wire and install the drivers and finish it however you wish. 
ErichH on AVS is the guy who started DIYSOUNDGROUP. MTG90 is Matt Grant- he designs and assembles the x-overs. There are several other regular posters on there who have designs on the site also.


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Absolutely ! I think every design has a flat pack available. You can even get the crossovers pre assembled if you want. All you’ll have to do is glue the box together, mount the crossover, wire and install the drivers and finish it however you wish.
> ErichH on AVS is the guy who started DIYSOUNDGROUP. MTG90 is Matt Grant- he designs and assembles the x-overs. There are several other regular posters on there who have designs on the site also.


I'll check it out, thanks!

The PE one seems to be a hell of a value as the drivers alone add up to more than the kit!

Do you think it would be a big step up from the other towers I listed in my short list???


----------



## ca90ss

DavidRam said:


> Are there more kits similar to the PE one that I should look at... I am absolutely, 100% going to draw the line at pre-fab! Lol
> If I have to do the measurements and design my own cabinet from scratch, it would definitely not happen.


Madisound has some nice kits as well.


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Btw, here is the short list:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Canton GLE490.2
> https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...4aAqi4EALw_wcB
> 
> 2. Elac Debut F6
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_970F6/ELAC-Debut-F6.html
> 
> 3. PE Solstice DIY Kit
> https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...4aAqi4EALw_wcB


The Elac link works, but the other two don't (and btw they're both the same link).

Here's a link to the PE Solstice DIY Kit: 
https://www.parts-express.com/solstice-mltl-reference-tower-speaker-kit--300-708


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Did they seriously play a Kylie Minogue song?!?! Lmao!
> 
> Great demo though, thanks!


Who's Kylie Minogue?


----------



## DeLander

The Solstice kit is $500 each. The Elac is $380 each. 
The DIYSOUNDGROUP Titan is $404 each. 
All of these will be over your budget when adding on the cost of subs, amps, receiver, etc. 
Granted the Titan doesn’t fit your form factor, but I think it would outperform the others by a good margin. 
Read some threads about it on AVS. There are some comparisons between it and speakers costing several times as much. They hold their own.


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> ...The PE one seems to be a hell of a value as the drivers alone add up to more than the kit!


I think that is generally the case with all their kits.



DavidRam said:


> Do you think it would be a big step up from the other towers I listed in my short list???


I have no idea, and I'm certainly no expert; however, depending on the environment in which they're to be heard, it's hard to imagine it wouldn't be a significant step up from any off-the-shelf BNIB speaker for the same $$ or less.


----------



## Grinder

DeLander said:


> The Solstice kit is $500 each. The Elac is $380 each.
> The DIYSOUNDGROUP Titan is $404 each.
> *All of these will be over your budget when adding on the cost of subs, amps, receiver, etc.*
> Granted the Titan doesn’t fit your form factor, but I think it would outperform the others by a good margin.
> Read some threads about it on AVS. There are some comparisons between it and speakers costing several times as much. They hold their own.


I was thinking he might not need a sub with the Solstices; just add that Yamahe he posted ( https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022AS501S/Yamaha-A-S501-Silver.html?tp=34948 ), and his Fiio player, and (at just $50 over budget + cabinet finishing and misc incidentals) voilà.

<edit> ...and no sub might mean better neighbor relations. Could always add one down the road, when warranted or needed.


----------



## DavidRam

DavidRam said:


> Btw, here is the short list:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Canton GLE490.2
> https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...3-way-floorstanding-speaker-black-each/1.html
> 
> 2. Elac Debut F6
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_970F6/ELAC-Debut-F6.html
> 
> 3. PE Solstice DIY Kit
> https://www.parts-express.com/solstice-mltl-reference-tower-speaker-kit--300-708





Grinder said:


> The Elac link works, but the other two don't (and btw they're both the same link).
> 
> Here's a link to the PE Solstice DIY Kit:
> https://www.parts-express.com/solstice-mltl-reference-tower-speaker-kit--300-708


Oops, sorry about that... They are working now, see above ^^^


----------



## DavidRam

One of the reasons I was interested in the Canton is that it has a metal grill... I have a 6 year old daughter (and she has lot's of friends) and I can see a pencil going in one of the speakers some day.

Not to mention it gets great reviews on AVS and the price is currently discounted by $100 each. The specs look good imho, and I'm pretty sure I would not need a sub with them...

Canton GLE490.2
https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...ing-speaker-black-each/1.html#!specifications

These also seem good, and are highly regarded by many - definitive Technology BP-9020. Well over my budget, but two built in powered subs! 
Unfortunately, they are covered all the way around with speaker grill cloth...
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_735BP9020/Definitive-Technology-BP-9020.html


----------



## DavidRam

Have I mentioned that the wall/room this is going in will be completely lopsided?? Wide open to the dining room and kitchen on the left side, and a wall about 6' away on the right side... 

Another reason why I am not trying to make a dream system out of this, the environment it's going in is not good at all. There is zero chance I can put ANY acoustic treatments anywhere, either. 

Everything about this set-up will have varying degrees of compromise.


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> One of the reasons I was interested in the Canton is that it has a metal grill... I have a 6 year old daughter (and she has lot's of friends) and I can see a pencil going in one of the speakers some day...


 Good thinking!!!




DavidRam said:


> ...Not to mention it gets great reviews on AVS and the price is currently discounted by $100 each. The specs look good imho, and I'm pretty sure I would not need a sub with a pair of those...
> 
> Canton GLE490.2
> https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html


Those might be just the ticket ...and at a nice price! (btw, this link ^^^^^ isn't working, though the earlier one you fixed is  )



DavidRam said:


> These also seem good, and are highly regarded by many - definitive Technology BP-9020. Well over my budget, but two built in powered subs!
> Unfortunately, they are covered all the way around with speaker grill cloth...
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_735BP9020/Definitive-Technology-BP-9020.html


 Hmmmmm... Pencils (and other sharp things) though... :worried:


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Have I mentioned that the wall/room this is going in will be completely lopsided?? Wide open to the dining room and kitchen on the left side, and a wall about 6' away on the right side...
> 
> Anther reason why I am not trying to make a dream system out of this, because the environment it's going in is not good at all. There is zero chance I can put ANY acoustic treatments anywhere, either.
> 
> Everything about this set-up will have varying degrees of compromise.


Those Cantons are looking better and better by the minute.

<edit> ... i.e. all things considered, they seem to be an ideal compromise. Why throw a load of time and/or money at this?


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> (btw, this link ^^^^^ isn't working, though the earlier one you fixed is  )


Let's see if this works...
https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...ing-speaker-black-each/1.html#!specifications


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Let's see if this works...
> https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...ing-speaker-black-each/1.html#!specifications


Bingo!


----------



## DeLander

I don’t want to seem pushy or like a know it all. 
But, you also have to remember that, just like car audio, 90% ( just throwing that number out there, but it’s probably close ) of speaker manufacturers get the drivers and other components they use from another company. Then the have to pay designers, R&D, factory bills, salaries, marketing,etc. They also have to keep the accountants happy by making ??
DIYSOUNDGROUP buys the drivers they use direct from the manufacturers ( Eminence mostly ). Most of them, you could buy from PE yourself. Some are special designs made just for DIYSOUNDGROUP. They buy the crossover components from the manufacturers or PE. They make the flat packs themselves. They design and build and test the speakers themselves. When they’re happy with the design, they buy several sets of components for that design at discounted prices and put it on the website for sale. They do all of the testing, tweaking, and trouble shooting for you. All you have to do is put it together. 
That’s it. Nothing more. You don’t pay for designers, factories, salaries, nothing else. Eric has been doing this for quite a while now. He does it on his own time. He and the designers work together to come up with speakers they think people would want. Hell, he even posts threads on AVS asking for feedback from anybody about ideas. 
There is no marketing or profit margin to hit. It’s all done because these guys really love audio and creating designs for people to use. 
Again, read some threads on AVS about the Fusions, VBSS, Titans, HTMs, 1099s, etc. 
People with a lot more experience than me have sold their way more expensive manufactured speakers and made the switch. I’m talking high end Klipsch, B&W, Vandersteen, etc. 
Sorry about the long post. I just figured a little business perspective was in order.


----------



## Holmz

DeLander said:


> I don’t want to seem pushy or like a know it all...
> 
> ...
> People with a lot more experience than me have sold their way more expensive manufactured speakers and made the switch. I’m talking high end Klipsch, B&W, Vandersteen, etc.
> Sorry about the long post. I just figured a little business perspective was in order.


If I was to move away from the Vandersteens it would be to a multi amped set up with a DDRC-88A... but I would likely just bi amp using the Vandersteens.

Given that classically good speakers and amps are being disposed of in PV, it might make more sense to peruse Graigslist.
I thought I mentioned George Meyers AV last week. Have you gone there yet?


----------



## DavidRam

Well, I showed my wife a couple pictures of the finalists (bookshelf, towers, subs) and she put a big stamp of DISapproval on the whole idea. 

She said that I would be turning the living room into a man-cave/mantuary and I already have my garage for that... 
I do see her point though, because we have worked hard and spent a lot of money making the living room look sharp and even the nicest of conventional audio equipment, could still be an eye-sore.

Btw, we don't even have a tv/media stand. Lol! The tv is mounted to the wall and there is a sleek (concrete top, metal base/frame) console table under it, "just for looks." Below that I built a little shelving unit that used to house the cable box when we had cable, and that "could" be used to house a receiver...

The Compromise?!
She is fine if I mount some small satellite speakers to the wall, especially if they are white and blend into the paint. Also, a small inconspicuous sub that would fit under the console table and not stick out at all, might be ok, preferably white, too.


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Well, I showed my wife a couple pictures of the finalists (bookshelf, towers, subs) and she put a big stamp of DISapproval on the whole idea.
> 
> She said that I would be turning the living room into a man-cave/mantuary and I already have my garage for that...
> I do see her point though, because we have worked hard and spent a lot of money making the living room look sharp and even the nicest of conventional audio equipment, could still be an eye-sore.
> 
> Btw, we don't even have a tv/media stand. Lol! The tv is mounted to the wall and there is a sleek (concrete top, metal base/frame) console table under it, "just for looks." Below that I built a little shelving unit that used to house the cable box when we had cable, and that "could" be used to house a receiver...
> 
> The Compromise?!
> She is fine if I mount some small satellite speakers to the wall, especially if they are white and blend into the paint. Also, a small inconspicuous sub that would fit under the console table and not stick out at all, might be ok, preferably white, too.


You should've showed her a few pictures of systems like mine first... and then, you know... work your way down to the finalists. 

Seriously though, have you considered a pair of white DMLs (+ a small white sub)?


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> You should've showed her a few pictures of systems like mine first... and then, you know... work your way down to the finalists.
> 
> Seriously though, have you considered a pair of white DMLs (+ a small white sub)?


True. Maybe I didn't use good psychology... 

Not sure what DMLS is, but I'll check it out.

_Edit: Direct Metal Laser Sintering? That can't be it.
Data manipulation language? Sounds interesting... Lol_


----------



## Grinder

...oh, and what about the bedroom? Perhaps you could set up a system in there.

...or maybe in the garage?


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> ...Not sure what DMLS is, but I'll check it out.
> 
> _Edit: Direct Metal Laser Sintering? That can't be it.
> Data manipulation language? Sounds interesting... Lol_


LOL.. guess again.


Post #22 of this thread:


Grinder said:


> With all the excellent suggestions so far, I'm pretty much at a loss ...so what about DIY DML?
> 
> DML Flat Panel | Parts Express Project Gallery


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> ...oh, and what about the bedroom? Perhaps you could set up a system in there.
> 
> ...or maybe in the garage?


Neither are comfortable for listening... I have a one car garage, packed full of tools (and of course a car). 

I think I am going to get the best small satellite speakers and sub possible and live with the compromise... This whole compromise reminds me of my Bose days (ugghhh), but what can I do. 
Some day we'll have a home where I build a dedicated listening room and then all bets are off!


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Neither are comfortable for listening... I have a one car garage, packed full of tools (and of course a car).


Got it.




DavidRam said:


> I think I am going to get the best small satellite speakers and sub possible and live with the compromise... This whole compromise reminds me of my Bose days (ugghhh), but what can I do.


DIY DMLs (Distributed Mode Loudspeakers) are definitely worth a look.




DavidRam said:


> Some day we'll have a home where I build a dedicated listening room and then all bets are off!


Start researching and planning now. Keep the dream alive.


----------



## DavidRam

What about something like this? 

Focal Dome Flax: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091DFW/Focal-Dome-Flax-White.html?search=focal+dome










SVS SB 1000: https://www.svsound.com/collections/1000-series/products/sb-1000










and a nice little receiver..?


----------



## DavidRam

Someone on AVS recommended these on wall 2ways (11.5 x 8.3 x 3.6):

https://www.axiomaudio.com/in-wall-on-wall-speakers










They are available in an eggshell white, which would blend in nicely.


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Someone on AVS recommended these on wall 2ways (11.5 x 8.3 x 3.6):
> 
> https://www.axiomaudio.com/in-wall-on-wall-speakers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are available in an eggshell white, which would blend in nicely.


Their form factor seems more appropriate for your situation than the Focals. However, what about speaker wires (spanning wall surface)? If the Focals were on the console table, presumably their wires would be hidden behind the table.

<edit> I just noticed Axiom's flat speaker wire. Perhaps that would suffice.
https://www.axiomaudio.com/flat-speaker-wire


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Their form factor seems more appropriate for your situation than the Focals. However, what about speaker wires (spanning wall surface)? If the Focals were on the console table, presumably their wires would be hidden behind the table.


I am able to hide the wires pretty easily if I mount to the wall, that shouldn't be a problem. But I DO like the option to place the Focals on the console table and DONE! 

This type of set up would be a great secondary system (bedroom, bathroom, garage) if/when I get a room to do a REAL system...


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> I am able to hide the wires pretty easily if I mount to the wall, that shouldn't be a problem. But I DO like the option to place the Focals on the console table and DONE!
> 
> This type of set up would be a great secondary system (bedroom, bathroom, garage) if/when I get a room to do a REAL system...


Sounds like a win/win.


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Sounds like a win/win.


My wife is nothing like yours, huh?! Lol :blush:


----------



## Grinder

Might be nice to run TV sound through this system, in which case (depending on the proximity of the TV to the table) the Axiom's might be best.

In case you missed it: Axiom's flat wire
https://www.axiomaudio.com/flat-speaker-wire


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> My wife is nothing like yours, huh?! Lol :blush:


I'm married to my horns. Wanna trade?


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Might be nice to run TV sound through this system, in which case (depending on the proximity of the TV to the table) the Axiom's might be best.
> 
> In case you missed it: Axiom's flat wire
> https://www.axiomaudio.com/flat-speaker-wire


I agree. I did see that stuff, it's pretty cool!


----------



## DavidRam

If there ever was such a thing as a mid-century-modern subwoofer design, it would be this:
https://www.roundsound.com/sub-woofers/tr-3d-subwoofer.html










It's so ugly, I think I like it. It reminds me of a french bulldog. I like french bulldogs.


----------



## DeLander

Ok. Ok. So much for DIY this time. 
For a receiver, maybe one of the slim line Matantz’s. 
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_642NR1608/Marantz-NR1608.html


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Ok. Ok. So much for DIY this time.
> For a receiver, maybe one of the slim line Matantz’s.
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_642NR1608/Marantz-NR1608.html


I know, right? 

I used to be more of a fighter, but this is my third marriage and I'd like to make it my last! Lol


----------



## DeLander

So, don’t get married again !!!!!!?


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> So, don’t get married again !!!!!!?


Good point!!


----------



## Weightless

Pic of said living room with TV? Is this for music or tv or both?

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

Is there not a single room in this little taj mahal you live in that could become a listening room? I must say this thread took a disappointing turn when said wife said "you have the garage, i have the rest of the house".


----------



## Holmz

miniSQ said:


> Is there not a single room in this little taj mahal you live in that could become a listening room? I must say this thread took a disappointing turn when said wife said "you have the garage, i have the rest of the house".


At least she is honest :surprised:


----------



## DeLander

I think DavidRam needs to find a way to get his wife more interested / involved with this.


----------



## DavidRam

Weightless said:


> Pic of said living room with TV? Is this for music or tv or both?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


Music only. I would like to be able to connect to the TV, but it would rarely be used for that purpose... 



miniSQ said:


> Is there not a single room in this little taj mahal you live in that could become a listening room? I must say this thread took a disappointing turn when said wife said "you have the garage, i have the rest of the house".


Well, with 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, it's rather limited. Lol. My place is a short walk to the beach, but for that luxury we live in incredibly overpriced shoe boxes. 

Sorry for the big let down...



Holmz said:


> At least she is honest :surprised:


Yep, she is honest, not very flexible, but honest. 



DeLander said:


> I think DavidRam needs to find a way to get his wife more interested / involved with this.


She has heard my various car audio builds 3 or 4 times in the last 5 years, but it takes a lot of coxing and then she gives in and politely listens for 10 minutes. 

I am 100% sure no matter how good an audio system we have in the living room, she will never, ever turn it on and listen to music on her own accord. She has no interest in it at all...


----------



## DavidRam

Here is a pic of the area I have to work with... The red boxes being the most likely and desirable spot for placement. 

Obviously, the lower spot would be the sub...

_Edit: The books won't stay in the shelves, those will be cleaned out and available for components - receiver and cd player. But the components must fit inside the shelves, cuz there is nowhere else to put them._


----------



## Weightless

Can I assume that everything that is on the table is going to remain on the table?

Do you own or rent? Can you do in wall mounted speakers or just surface mount?

Are you opposed to diy? 

I see that you edited yourself out of the reflection...

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## DavidRam

Weightless said:


> Can I assume that everything that is on the table is going to remain on the table?
> 
> Do you own or rent? Can you do in wall mounted speakers or just surface mount?
> 
> Are you opposed to diy?
> 
> I see that you edited yourself out of the reflection...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


On the table, the HK Onyx 3 will be removed, otherwise that's it. 

I rent, so surface mount at the most... I am opposed to diy at this point, due to size (and skills) limitations. The key is small, fancy, non-audio looking equipment. You can see how we live uncluttered and with a modern style.

Yes, I did a sloppy job of editing myself out of the pic, but the unedited version was too incriminating... I may or may not currently have my picture on the back of a milk carton.  Lol


----------



## DavidRam

*UPDATE:*

I just got a deal I couldn't refuse on the Focal Dome Flax in white... So the speakers are decided.






















I also am waiting for an email on the Gallo TR-3D subwoofer. It has great specs for it's size and it looks cool as **** in a weird 80-90s bazooka car subwoofer kinda way. The steel body and grill will hold up to a 6 year old and her friends AND it comfortably fits in the spot I marked in the picture. I just wish it was available in white, too. 

Again, this set-up is about compromise, but I still want decent equipment... 
Btw, the other sub finalist is SVS SB 1000. 


*Anthony Gallo TR-3D Specs:*
Model	N/A
Frequency Response	18Hz to 180Hz +/- 3db
Impedance	No
Sensitivity	No
Power Handling	300 watts, 600 watts max, Class D Digital amp
Driver	10" Long Throw Ceramic Anodized Aluminum Cone
Dimensions	10.75" W x 12" H x 13.5" D
Cone Material	Ceramic Anodized Aluminum Cone
Enclosure Material	Hardened Steel with patented S2 bass loading
Warranty	2 Years Parts & Labor
Crossover	See below
Connections	2 Female RCA phono inputs and 2 female RCA phono outputs (pass thu), 5 way gold plated speaker level binding posts
Finish	Black
Phase	0/180 Switch
Low Pass	50 to 180Hz, continuously variable with LFE by-pass swirch
High Pass	100Hz fixed, 1st order high-level output
Bass EQ	0, +3dB, +6dB, 30Hz center frequency
Power Auto On/Off	Auto On/Off Toggle Switch
Gain	Dial
Tweeter	None
Weight	33 lbs
Woofers Cover	Black Metal Grill


----------



## DavidRam

I am pretty sure this receiver will work for my purposes:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RN303/Yamaha-R-N303.html


----------



## AyOne

DavidRam said:


> I am pretty sure this receiver will work for my purposes:
> 
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RN303/Yamaha-R-N303.html


I’ve always liked Yamaha receivers. The only thing I would look for instead is a marantz for the same price range but thats more of a preference/sonic signature thing. Both are equally reliable.

I didn’t look at the price range your looking for but I use a pair B&W m1’s and am really happy with them. They sound like **** in Best Buy’s but when you get them home the really sound nice.


----------



## DeLander

DavidRam, look closely at the Marantz I posted about the other day.


----------



## DeLander

This one. 
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_642NR1608/Marantz-NR1608.html
Better specs. Full AVR, not just stereo, for future expansion possibilities. Better output stage. Better DAC. Front pre-output jacks. HDMI inputs and outputs. Etc.....


----------



## dcfis

This thread has been astound a while and I don't know all the original particulars. Is this a 5.1? If it's just a pair and a sub I would do any of the linn, Naim, creek, Cambridge, Roskan ect integrateds. Better yet that prima on the forum. If 5.1 try to get the emotiva receiver. I have the Marantz suggested and while it shames other readily available box store stuff it doesn't compete with the emotiva


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> This one.
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_642NR1608/Marantz-NR1608.html
> Better specs. Full AVR, not just stereo, for future expansion possibilities. Better output stage. Better DAC. Front pre-output jacks. HDMI inputs and outputs. Etc.....


That thing is awesome for sure! Am I not understanding the output though? The Yamaha is showing 100 watts per channel and the Marantz only 50... The Focals can handle 100 and I'd like to give them as much as they can take. Am I missing something?


----------



## DeLander

I was talking about the output stage components, not just power. The Yamaha’s frequency response is rated 40-20,000 Hz. Marantz is 20-20,000 Hz. Better output stage


----------



## AyOne

DavidRam said:


> That thing is awesome for sure! Am I not understanding the output though? The Yamaha is showing 100 watts per channel and the Marantz only 50... The Focals can handle 100 and I'd like to give them as much as they can take. Am I missing something?


When you crank the marantz up it will sound better than the Yamaha. We all know how wattage can mean very different things in car audio, it’s the same thing here. 

I worked at magnolia hifi for many years and wattage between receivers of different brands is somewhat irrelevant.


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> I was talking about the output stage components, not just power. The Yamaha’s frequency response is rated 40-20,000 Hz. Marantz is 20-20,000 Hz. Better output stage





AyOne said:


> When you crank the marantz up it will sound better than the Yamaha. We all know how wattage can mean very different things in car audio, it’s the same thing here.
> 
> I worked at magnolia hifi for many years and wattage between receivers of different brands is somewhat irrelevant.


Thanks guys, I understand...

The Marantz does seem like a pretty bad ass unit! 

Is it overkill considering it will never be used for anything but a two channel?? I know I am a weirdo, but I hardly ever watch movies and in the rare occasion I do watch a movie I have no interest in watching it loud in surround sound. 
This is the reason I never go to movie theaters, it's too loud and I'm not much of a movie guy... :loser1:

EDIT: In terms of expansion, the only thing I see myself adding down the road is a record player. Actually, it's very likely I will add one relatively soon...


----------



## AyOne

DavidRam said:


> Thanks guys, I understand...
> 
> The Marantz does seem like a pretty bad ass unit!
> 
> Is it overkill considering it will never be used for anything but a two channel?? I know I am a weirdo, but I hardly ever watch movies and in the rare occasion I do watch a movie I have no interest in watching it loud in surround sound.
> This is the reason I never go to movie theaters, it's too loud and I'm not much of a movie guy... :loser1:
> 
> EDIT: In terms of expansion, the only thing I see myself adding down the road is a record player. Actually, it's very likely I will add one relatively soon...


Trust me I get it. I run a marantz pre/pro and 5 channel amp for stereo on two tiny bookshelf’s. I got it just in case I wanted to do the 5.1 thing but after 3 years I’m still just running stereo. 

An advantage is having the room correction feature. It’s autoEQ so you can’t sit there and tweak out on it but it does work well. Or you can set it on ‘pure direct’
If your room is cool.


----------



## DeLander

Uh oh. The Marantz doesn’t have a phono input for a turntable. You’d have to get a pre-amp. Deal breaker ?


----------



## Mike Bober

DavidRam said:


> What about something like this?
> 
> Focal Dome Flax: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091DFW/Focal-Dome-Flax-White.html?search=focal+dome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SVS SB 1000: https://www.svsound.com/collections/1000-series/products/sb-1000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and a nice little receiver..?



I have the SVS SB‑2000 and i love that thing! Great subwoofer.


----------



## dcfis

Serious if 2 channel and TV get even an entry level Nad. I own Marantz for my ht but 2 channel there is so much great stuff available for cheap


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Uh oh. The Marantz doesn’t have a phono input for a turntable. You’d have to get a pre-amp. Deal breaker ?


I definitely want the phono input, because I am sure that would be the only expansion I would do... I'm already looking at turntables. I've never owned one in my life! 



Mike Bober said:


> I have the SVS SB‑2000 and i love that thing! Great subwoofer.


They do get excellent reviews! 



dcfis said:


> Serious if 2 channel and TV get even an entry level Nad. I own Marantz for my ht but 2 channel there is so much great stuff available for cheap


I'll check out Nad... Thanks


----------



## dcfis

Don't forget the others I listed


----------



## DavidRam

After some more looking, I think I need to up my budget... Now that my original budget of $1,500 for everything is out the window, **** it! Lol

New receiver budget, maybe up to $1,000 ? 

MUST HAVES: coax digital input, phono, minimum 80wpc, Bluetooth, new with warranty

It will ONLY be used for music - NO tv or movies, NO surround sound and NO radio.

Sources: DAP, CD, turn table and phone (for Pandora, YouTube, etc.)


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> After some more looking, I think I need to up my budget... Now that my original budget of $1,500 for everything is out the window, **** it! Lol
> 
> New receiver budget, maybe up to $1,000 ?
> 
> MUST HAVES: coax digital input, phono, minimum 80wpc, Bluetooth, new with warranty
> 
> It will ONLY be used for music - NO tv or movies, NO surround sound and NO radio.
> 
> Sources: DAP, CD, turn table and phone (for Pandora, YouTube, etc.)


Hold still, dammit! :rifle: 

j/k


----------



## audiodelic

I suggest you look at ascend acoustics / Salk sound / philharmonic instead of the mainstream brands and also google for the reviews online.

These are somewhat like the audiofrogs of the Home audio world , a great engineer from m and k started ascend . 

Most people on forums will agree these are great VFM being online direct buys like emotiva. Get a dac into pre/integrates. For great DACs looks at Schiit audio multibit models


----------



## DavidRam

Here are some of the recommendations I am getting over on AVS:

This one is near perfect for my situation, I think...
NAD C-368
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_745C368/NAD-C-368.html


Never heard of this brand, but it has great specs AND *bass management*!! 
Outlaw Audio RR-2160
https://www.musicdirect.com/receive...QITfxRbvMBw_G70SYthH8E3qOouyaS2hoCSgEQAvD_BwE


----------



## dcfis

Yes outlaw is great


----------



## DeLander

Remember, it’s normally suggested to spend about 2/3 of your budget on speakers and the other 1/3 on electronics. The speakers will make the biggest difference in what you hear.


----------



## Grinder

DeLander said:


> Remember, it’s normally suggested to spend about 2/3 of your budget on speakers and the other 1/3 on electronics. The speakers will make the biggest difference in what you hear.


It seems the speakers are a done deal.


DavidRam said:


> ...I just got a deal I couldn't refuse on the Focal Dome Flax in white... So the speakers are decided...


----------



## DavidRam

DavidRam said:


> Never heard of this brand, but it has great specs AND *bass management*!!
> Outlaw Audio RR-2160
> https://www.musicdirect.com/receive...QITfxRbvMBw_G70SYthH8E3qOouyaS2hoCSgEQAvD_BwE


Damn it, I just realized it does NOT have Blutetooth... 



Edit: I am intrigued by this thing ^^^ *How hard is it to add Bluetooth??*


----------



## DeLander

Grinder said:


> It seems the speakers are a done deal.


Yeah. I know. But, I just wanted to point out that it’s not best to spend $1500 on a receiver and only $500 on speakers. Just throwing numbers out, but the point is there. 
Also, looks like DavidRam doesn’t have the best listening room environment to spend big ? on either at this point. Without some room enhancements, he’ll probably not get the best performance from whatever he ends up with. Don’t think his wife will go for bass traps and sound absorbing panels on the walls.


----------



## DeLander

Like dcfis mentioned on the last page. Might have a look at this
https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/ta-100


----------



## Grinder

DeLander said:


> Yeah. I know. But, I just wanted to point out that it’s not best to spend $1500 on a receiver and only $500 on speakers. Just throwing numbers out, but the point is there.
> Also, looks like DavidRam doesn’t have the best listening room environment to spend big ? on either at this point. Without some room enhancements, he’ll probably not get the best performance from whatever he ends up with. Don’t think his wife will go for bass traps and sound absorbing panels on the walls.


I agree 100%. :beerchug:

I regularly ran my horns on a ~$60 (IIRC) Dual HU, in order to conserve precious off-grid power for other purposes.

<edit> ...and at ~$800, my '94 Kenwood KR-X1000 receiver cost less than 10% of the ongoing price for comparable store-bought replacement horns.


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Yeah. I know. But, I just wanted to point out that it’s not best to spend $1500 on a receiver and only $500 on speakers. Just throwing numbers out, but the point is there.
> Also, looks like DavidRam doesn’t have the best listening room environment to spend big ? on either at this point. Without some room enhancements, he’ll probably not get the best performance from whatever he ends up with. Don’t think his wife will go for bass traps and sound absorbing panels on the walls.


I totally agree. You are right, the room is about the worst possible... 

One of my newer thoughts is, if I get a good receiver and subwoofer now, I can upgrade just the speakers down the road and that be the only thing I would "need" to upgrade for a dedicated listening room (and/or maybe add a second sub). 
Not unlike car audio, I can see myself trying out different speakers from time to time, but I do not want to be replacing the receiver and sub every time...


The speakers are a compromise, but the receiver doesn't necessarily have to be.


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> I totally agree. You are right, the room is about the worst possible...
> 
> One of my newer thoughts is, if I get a good receiver and subwoofer now, I can upgrade just the speakers down the road and that be the only thing I would "need" to upgrade for a dedicated listening room (and/or maybe add a second sub).
> Not unlike car audio, I can see myself trying out different speakers from time to time, but I do not want to be replacing the receiver and sub every time...
> 
> 
> The speakers are a compromise, but the receiver doesn't necessarily have to be.


Good thinking!


----------



## DeLander

I agree also. However, it may be wise to start off with something mid-range or lower price wise until you realize how much you actually use this system. You say your wife has no interest, so , when are you going to be able to use it ? 
Starting off, get something decent for now. When the time comes for a dedicated listening room or whatever, move this system to the garage, workshop, bedroom, etc. Then get more involved. With an acoustically challenged environment, you probably wouldn’t notice much difference anyway. JMHO


----------



## Grinder

All good points.

However, I wonder if this sudden budget increase might be a sort of compromise/concession/award from "She Who Must Be Obeyed" LOL (Rumpole, anyone?), which, if not redeemed now, might be lost forever.


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> All good points.
> 
> However, I wonder if this sudden budget increase might be a sort of compromise/concession/award from "She Who Must Be Obeyed" LOL (Rumpole, anyone?), which, if not redeemed now, might be lost forever.


Lol!

We don't discuss the price of these things... We both have our own "don't ask, don't tell" money! 

My original budget was unrealistic, and was an uneducated ideal.


----------



## DeLander

Grinder said:


> All good points.
> 
> However, I wonder if this sudden budget increase might be a sort of compromise/concession/award from "She Who Must Be Obeyed" LOL (Rumpole, anyone?), which, if not redeemed now, might be lost forever.


??
That’s ****in funny dude !!!
Well, it would be, but it is true for me sometimes too ??
David started off with a $1500 budget, which is a really good budget for this as far as I’m concerned. Not sure how much the speakers were, but considering a sub and receiver/amp are still needed ??????? That’s why I’m thinking a $400 receiver and a $400 sub would possibly be a good range.


----------



## DeLander

Another thought David. 
I see in your signature that you run Audiofrog, JL Audio, Zapco and miniDSP equipment in your vehicle. Those are all good, mid to upper mid level components and I bet it sounds good. This range is kind of where I’m tryin to get you to stay with this home system. Law of Diminishing Returns at play here I think. 
You can get really good equipment without spending your entire budget.


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Another thought David.
> I see in your signature that you run Audiofrog, JL Audio, Zapco and miniDSP equipment in your vehicle. Those are all good, mid to upper mid level components and I bet it sounds good. This range is kind of where I’m tryin to get you to stay with this home system. Law of Diminishing Returns at play here I think.
> You can get really good equipment without spending your entire budget.


I appreciate that!! 

The only low priced receiver that has everything I need is this https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RN303/Yamaha-R-N303.html but I am not getting much positive feedback on it.


----------



## DavidRam

How hard is it add Bluetooth to a receiver? That Outlaw Audio unit seems pretty bad ass and future proof.

Regarding my original budget, the speakers and subwoofer will nearly eat that up...


----------



## DeLander

How ‘bout this ?
https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...-ch-x-95-watts-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html


----------



## dcfis

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_532BT...WNpfAz7ONoLmXmARoMeNAIpG2JUAR-JRoCLnUQAvD_BwE


----------



## DeLander

DavidRam said:


> How hard is it add Bluetooth to a receiver? That Outlaw Audio unit seems pretty bad ass and future proof.
> 
> Regarding my original budget, the speakers and subwoofer will nearly eat that up...


What do you mean future proof ? Stereo doesn’t deal with different Codecs coming out every year. Or input specifications changing all the time. Or, .....


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> What do you mean future proof ? Stereo doesn’t deal with different Codecs coming out every year. Or input specifications changing all the time. Or, .....


By future proof I mean upgrade proof. Plenty of power for big speakers, all the options I could ever use, and the reviews are excellent... It should be very reliable. I like how it's not black (not being racist here :laugh! The AVS guys are saying it's freakin awesome, too. 

I like the bass management feature. That's something that none of the units I have looked at had (except for the Elac one, if I'm not mistake).

You don't think it's a good one?


----------



## Iamsecond

Well, the price of equipment is only a part of the equation. I bought a Yamaha Aventage receiver with 95 watts per channel (well as the published specs go lol, thats a whole separate issue) and it powers my htd level 2 towers, center and surrounds, with an inuke 6000 powering 2 si 24's in ib in the attic firing into the room. Point is, people said this wouldn't be a great set up but it is amazing and anyone who has come into our theater loves it. Point I am making is about the statement about receiver vs speaker cost. You can go on the diysoundgroup website and buy speakers (you will have to assemble and finish) for a fraction of the cost of buying at best buy etc, but they will be amazingly efficient (requiring less power to get loud) and they use top shelf components. You know audio and with a little elbow grease you can have a system that will rock the house at a fraction of the cost of a pair of speakers from a box store or even an online direct company. Just a thought.


----------



## DeLander

DavidRam said:


> By future proof I mean upgrade proof. Plenty of power for big speakers, all the options I could ever use, and the reviews are excellent... It should be very reliable. I like how it's not black (not being racist here :laugh! The AVS guys are saying it's freakin awesome, too.
> 
> I like the bass management feature. That's something that none of the units I have looked at had (except for the Elac one, if I'm not mistake).
> 
> You don't think it's a good one?


Oh yeah. The Outlaw looks great. I’ve heard really good things about their equipment for years.


----------



## DeLander

Too bad you already got speakers. You could have gotten these. 
https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/collection/speakers/beolab-90
?????????????????????????


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Too bad you already got speakers. You could have gotten these.
> https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/collection/speakers/beolab-90
> ?????????????????????????


Lmao!!! $80,000! Holy smokes, they are incredible though...

In the city I grew up in Germany, there was a Bang & Olufson store on my way to school. Even as a 12 year old I remember stopping to stare in the showroom window at the UFO looking things, and thinking "some day I will buy one of those." 
I'm 43 now, but the dream is still alive! "Some day I will..." :laugh:


----------



## DavidRam

Outlaw has the B-stock RR2160 price at $699 and free shipping. For me that would be a $158 savings.
Worth it for B-stock?


----------



## Holmz

DavidRam said:


> Outlaw has the B-stock RR2160 price at $699 and free shipping. For me that would be a $158 savings.
> Worth it for B-stock?


Depends on you...

Here are my thoughts
1) if you are not married, then do what you want.
2) if her option matters then it would be best to inlcude her in the process to the extent that she wants to be included.
3) head phones seem like a better option here...
4) how does one measure "bad assness"? At some point the performance matters.
5) with all the older second hand equipment available, what is the sense is purchasing new gear? You could lilkely get what was a 5000$ system for your 1000-1500 budget, and that is truely "bad ass" gear.
6) don't get sucked in by looks
7) once you commit down a path, then you can get a bit "locked in".
8) would the funds be better used elsewhere?


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Outlaw has the B-stock RR2160 price at $699 and free shipping. For me that would be a $158 savings.
> Worth it for B-stock?


Assuming a full warranty (including a 30 day satisfaction guaranty, or the like), I'd say go for it.


----------



## Grinder

Holmz said:


> Depends on you...
> 
> Here are my thoughts
> 1) *if you are not married*, then do what you want.
> 2) if her option matters then it would be best to inlcude her in the process to the extent that she wants to be included.
> 3) head phones seem like a better option here...
> 4) how does one measure "bad assness"? At some point the performance matters.
> 5) with all the older second hand equipment available, what is the sense is purchasing new gear? You could lilkely get what was a 5000$ system for your 1000-1500 budget, and that is truely "bad ass" gear.
> 6) don't get sucked in by looks
> 7) once you commit down a path, then you can get a bit "locked in".
> 8) would the funds be better used elsewhere?


C'mon, man... Do try to follow along. 
1) He is (so, he can't).
2) It does, and he has.
3) He already has headphones.
4) Style and aesthetics trump performance (see 2).
5) Warranty. Reliability. Longevity. Flawless appearance.
6) (see 4)
7) For better or worse, the path is rather narrow and well defined.
8) Only a stereo can fulfill one's longing for a stereo (and what better use for one's "don't ask/don't tell" money?).


----------



## DavidRam

Holmz said:


> Depends on you...
> 
> Here are my thoughts
> 1) if you are not married, then do what you want.
> 2) if her option matters then it would be best to inlcude her in the process to the extent that she wants to be included.
> 3) head phones seem like a better option here...
> 4) how does one measure "bad assness"? At some point the performance matters.
> 5) with all the older second hand equipment available, what is the sense is purchasing new gear? You could lilkely get what was a 5000$ system for your 1000-1500 budget, and that is truely "bad ass" gear.
> 6) don't get sucked in by looks
> 7) once you commit down a path, then you can get a bit "locked in".
> 8) would the funds be better used elsewhere?


Point 1 and 2, yes and she is included.
Point 3, I have Sennheiser HD650s and Shiit audio DAC and amp.
Point 4, in this context bad ass is a combination of power, function and looks.
Point 5, I don't really like buying used, it takes a lot of the joy out of it for me. 
Point 6, looks DO matter because of our living room's looks.
Point 7, you are right about that! 
Point 8, funds are not a problem.


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Point 1 and 2, yes and she is included.
> Point 3, I have Sennheiser HD650s and Shiit audio DAC and amp.
> Point 4, in this context bad ass is a combination of power, function and looks.
> Point 5, I don't really like buying used, it takes a lot of the joy out of it for me.
> Point 6, looks DO matter because of our living room's looks.
> Point 7, you are right about that!
> Point 8, funds are not a problem.


Sorry... I just couldn't help myself LOL. :blush:


----------



## DavidRam

I'll be ordering the Gallo sub today... 

I'm going to call Outlaw to see what the deal is with their b-stock: condition, warranty, etc..


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> I'll be ordering the Gallo sub today...


Is that the cute/badass little French Terrier?


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Sorry... I just couldn't help myself LOL. :blush:


Not a problem! Lol

Actually, home audio is a better "investment" (depreciating asset) for me than car audio. 
I will keep and enjoy this equipment for years! My cars end of getting thousands of dollars of equipment, months of work and then they get sold and I start all over again. 
Btw, my Mazda is currently up for sale.


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Is that the cute/badass little French Terrier?


Yep, I have to have it. It's the ultimate sound quality, small apartment, high-design, conversation piece subwoofer!

Even my wife said it looked cool as ****, DESPITE being BLACK!


----------



## DavidRam

Here is the line up so far:

Focal Dome Flax 









Anothony Gallo Acoustics TR-3D


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Yep, I have to have it. It's the ultimate sound quality, small apartment, high-design, conversation piece subwoofer!
> 
> Even my wife said it looked cool as ****, DESPITE being BLACK!


Perfect!

LOL, there may be hope for her yet! :


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Perfect!
> 
> LOL, there may be hope for her yet! :



*#BlackSubwoofersMatter*


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> "Black Subwoofers Matter"


LOL #BlackSubwoofersMatter


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> LOL #BlackSubwoofersMatter


Yes, that's it! Fixed it


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Yes, that's it! Fixed it


Great minds think alike.


----------



## DeLander

This setup should do nicely. ?


----------



## 555nova

Grinder said:


> LOL #BlackSubwoofersMatter


Thank you for posting this....I've been struggling with a black subwoofer for years. Thanks to your insight I can a now accept it.


----------



## DavidRam

555nova said:


> Thank you for posting this....I've been struggling with a black subwoofer for years. Thanks to your insight I can a now accept it.


Color is only paint deep, it's the voice coil that really matters. 

I will call it my "subwoofer from another mother."


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Color is only paint deep, it's the voice coil that really matters.
> 
> I will call it my "subwoofer from another mother."


So, you're saying the voice coils of carpeted subs don't matter? 

#CarpetedSubsMatterToo


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> So, you're saying the voice coils of carpeted subs don't matter?
> 
> #CarpetedSubsMatterToo


As long as the carpet matches the drapes...


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> As long as the carpet matches the drapes...


ROFL! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## DavidRam

I must be driving you guys crazy by now!!!   :blush:

I spent some time measuring and it would be really hard to make the Outlaw RR2160 fit, both for it's depth (15") and height (5.75").

So I'm looking at some of the smaller units, like Elacs https://www.crutchfield.com/p_970EA101EQ/ELAC-EA101EQ-G.html
which is missing the phono input, but has everything else I need. PLUS, the auto-EQ and bass management functions could be helpful in my less-than-optimal room.
I guess I could always get a turntable with built in preamp, right? Wouldn't that then connect through any standard input?


----------



## Old Skewl

Definitely give the NAD D3020 a consideration as well. It is a solid amp for it size. You can stand it up or lay it down. You can also use the optical out of the TV and into the D3020. There is a setting so that it will turn on automatically when it senses the signal and can be controlled from the TV or Cable remote. Big hit with the wife and kids, only trick is you need to let it turnoff by itself. My only gripe with the D3020 is the volume control from the remote is in very small steps.


----------



## DeLander

David, why did you decide against this one ?
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RN602/Yamaha-R-N602.html


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> David, why did you decide against this one ?
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RN602/Yamaha-R-N602.html


I can't fit it... 

Max height is 5.5" and max depth is about 14".


----------



## DeLander

Well ****


----------



## DeLander

Ok
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_745C328/NAD-C-328.html


----------



## DeLander

Or
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_745C338/NAD-C-338.html


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> I can't fit it...
> 
> Max height is 5.5" and max depth is about 14".


Will the receiver be located within or on top of the shelf unit? I'm wondering about venting. Even if there weren't any venting at the top of said receiver, I wonder if there would be adequate airflow within one of those shelves.


----------



## DeLander

Grinder said:


> Will the receiver be located within or on top of the shelf unit? I'm wondering about venting. Even if there weren't any venting at the top of said receiver, I wonder if there would be adequate airflow within one of those shelves.


That’s why I posted the NADs above. They are considerably shorter than his height dimension. Should be enough room to breathe.


----------



## Grinder

DeLander said:


> That’s why I posted the NADs above. They are considerably shorter than his height dimension. Should be enough room to breathe.


I hadn't seen those. They look awesome, and ought to be a nice fit.


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> That’s why I posted the NADs above. They are considerably shorter than his height dimension. Should be enough room to breathe.


The NADs look great, thanks again!


----------



## DavidRam

General Question:

When a receiver says that it's 8 or 4 ohm, how do you change the impedance? Is it a function of the way the speakers are wired to the outputs, or would there be a switch or something on the receiver?


----------



## Holmz

DavidRam said:


> General Question:
> 
> When a receiver says that it's 8 or 4 ohm, how do you change the impedance? Is it a function of the way the speakers are wired to the outputs, or would there be a switch or something on the receiver?


You don't unless it is an old tube amp with multiple output taps.

If you are keeping the white Ms Packman looking jobs then get an amp to match.
Or select the speakers... 8-ohm is usually used for a reason.


----------



## DeLander

DavidRam said:


> General Question:
> 
> When a receiver says that it's 8 or 4 ohm, how do you change the impedance? Is it a function of the way the speakers are wired to the outputs, or would there be a switch or something on the receiver?


It’s just like a car amp. It will output the power in response to the resistance it sees. There is no switch or settings to adjust. 
Kinda like some car amps are not stable with certain loads ( 1 ohm, for instance ). This spec basically means that the receiver/ amp is stable, compatible with 8 or 4 ohm Speakers.


----------



## DeLander

I know somebody else posted about NAD earlier. My only personal experience with NAD was back in the late 80s. A friend of mine had big floor standing top-of-the-line Polk Audio Reference towers in his basement. He ran them with a NAD receiver rated around 40-50 watts/channel I think. The NAD drove those speakers to VERY loud volumes in an open basement area. 
Don’t let receiver/amp wattage specs fool you too much. It’s the current output that drives the speakers. 40-50 good,clean watts from this level of equipment will surprise you.


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Will the receiver be located within or on top of the shelf unit? I'm wondering about venting. Even if there weren't any venting at the top of said receiver, I wonder if there would be adequate airflow within one of those shelves.


That is one of the reasons I am watching the dimensions... Also, I can drill holes in the back and top or even add a fan if it gets to hot.


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> It’s just like a car amp. It will output the power in response to the resistance it sees. There is no switch or settings to adjust.
> Kinda like some car amps are not stable with certain loads ( 1 ohm, for instance ). This spec basically means that the receiver/ amp is stable, compatible with 8 or 4 ohm Speakers.





DeLander said:


> I know somebody else posted about NAD earlier. My only personal experience with NAD was back in the late 80s. A friend of mine had big floor standing top-of-the-line Polk Audio Reference towers in his basement. He ran them with a NAD receiver rated around 40-50 watts/channel I think. The NAD drove those speakers to VERY loud volumes in an open basement area.
> Don’t let receiver/amp wattage specs fool you too much. It’s the current output that drives the speakers. 40-50 good,clean watts from this level of equipment will surprise you.


Thanks, those posts really helped me understand better... In terms of size and features, the NADs are looking great. AND they also look sleek and modern like the rest of my equipment.

Btw, the Gallo sub is on order! It and the Focals will be here next week.


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> General Question:
> 
> When a receiver says that it's 8 or 4 ohm, how do you change the impedance? Is it a function of the way the speakers are wired to the outputs, or would there be a switch or something on the receiver?


FWIW, there are (or at least, were) solid state receivers that have an impedance switch on the rear panel; and my Onkyo TX-8160 has a Speaker Impedance setting in its Set Up menu:



> *Speaker Impedance:* If any of the connected speakers
> have 4 ohm or more to less than 6 ohm impedance, or if you
> have connected a different set of left and right speakers
> to the SPEAKERS A/B terminals, set the impedance to
> 4 ohm.
> * Reduce the volume to minimum before setting.
> 6 ohm (default setting)
> 4 ohm


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> FWIW, there are (or at least, were) solid state receivers that have an impedance switch on the rear panel; and my Onkyo TX-8160 has a Speaker Impedance setting in its Set Up menu:


Yep, I did see one receiver that had a switch on the back, but only that one...


I have been reading reviews until I am blue in the face. One contestant that I don't remember being mentioned is the Cambride CXA 60; that thing get's excellent reviews from many sources (I even read some glowing reviews on German websites)... Size wise, if would work and it is probably one of the best looking units there is, imho. Sliver or black.
It does not have BT, but that is easy to add and no bass management. 

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_779CX...zbve9AkzjqRBkszX_1Hh9WMqWp3hWRnBoCbkQQAvD_BwE


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Yep, I did see one receiver that had a switch on the back, but only that one...
> 
> 
> I have reading reviews until I am blue in the face. One contestant that I don't remember being mentioned is the Cambride CXA 60; that thing get's excellent reviews all over place (I even read some glowing reviews on German websites)... Size wise, if would work and it is probably one of the best looking units there is, imho. Sliver or black.
> It does not have BT, but that is easy to add and no bass management.
> 
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_779CX...zbve9AkzjqRBkszX_1Hh9WMqWp3hWRnBoCbkQQAvD_BwE


Very nice! It looks like a very solid contender. I wish I could offer you something a lot more useful than that. :blush:


----------



## DeLander

Yes. Cambridge Audio is nice equipment. I saw them on Crutchfield but didn’t mention them because they didn’t have everything you want.


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Yes. Cambridge Audio is nice equipment. I saw them on Crutchfield but didn’t mention them because they didn’t have everything you want.


There aren't any single units that have everything I want... Maybe I am asking to much! Lol
The closest that ticks all the boxes (adding external BT dongle) is the Outlaw RR2160, except for it's huge.


----------



## DeLander

The NADs have Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, phono input, excellent specs, excellent sound, and will fit in your space. What are they missing ?


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> The NADs have Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, phono input, excellent specs, excellent sound, and will fit in your space. What are they missing ?


The NAD C338 is on my short list... Only thing it's missing that the Outlaw has is bass management. 

Like you, I research the **** out of everything. Lol :blush: :laugh: 

The good thing is, I have learned a lot from you guys, so this has been a really fun process so far!!


----------



## DeLander

Ahhh.... ok. Bass management. 
I’ve seen where some integrateds have Bass Management that can be accessed through a smartphone app ( Yamaha 803 for one ). There may be more that do this. 
Also, Marantz and Denon AVRs have an app that allow much greater flexibility and tuning adjustments. 
Might be something to research also.


----------



## DavidRam

Here is the short list (it's not exactly narrowed down, lol)

NAD - C338, C368

Cambridge - CXA60, CXA80

Outlaw - RR2160

Marrantz - PM7005, NR1608

NEW ADDITION: Onkyo - TX-8270



Btw, I am going to work on my size restrictions and see if I can re-do the shelving to be able to pick what I want and just make it fit somehow. Both depth and height are an issue, but I want to see if I can make some more room... I have to make room for a CD player and turntable anyways.


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Ahhh.... ok. Bass management.
> I’ve seen where some integrateds have Bass Management that can be accessed through a smartphone app ( Yamaha 803 for one ). There may be more that do this.
> Also, Marantz and Denon AVRs have an app that allow much greater flexibility and tuning adjustments.
> Might be something to research also.


I've been trying to learn about that stuff... I am definitely seeing more features and power in the AVRs at a better price than the 2 channels I have been looking at.


----------



## DavidRam

Wtf happened to all the posts???


----------



## miniSQ

test


----------



## Grinder

<TEST>


----------



## Grinder

<TEST>


----------



## Grinder

<TEST>


----------



## DeLander

HEY. DAMN. I CAN SEE AGAIN
Haven’t had any new posts show up since page 5. Thank you to whomever fixed this ?


----------



## DeLander

David, I saw the post about that Onkyo 8270 on AVS. If you could make it fit height wise, looks like it could be perfect for you.


----------



## Viggen

AVR are more common due to not being made for SQ, kinda throw as much stuff in a box to hit whatever price point they want to reach. 

2 CH receivers seems to be more for SQ and are more bare bones. 

If space is tight above whatever receiver you get AC Infinity makes some really nice slim cooling fans. I purchased a used 3ch amp last week and the guy I purchased it from has the same pre/pro I use, he showed me all of the cooling fans that help keep his electronics cool. 

If you have a local nice audio shop, I would pay them a visit


----------



## Holmz

Viggen said:


> ...
> If you have a local nice audio shop, I would pay them a visit


There are, or were, at least 3 good ones within a 30-45 minute drive.
I think that they cater to a higher price point demographic, but it may be worth a visit.

Given the Haus-Boss has spoken, I am not sure what the reciever would receive? Why not just run an amplifier?

If it is just streaming from an iPhone then having a AM/FM/CD receiver may not be as good a just something simpler, like a blue tooth speaker/amp combo?
(a good bare amplifier may still need a volume knob)

But as the Haus-Boss has spoken, I am not sure there is a better solution than yet another Bose?


----------



## DavidRam

NICE!!! Thanks to however restored the threads!!


----------



## DavidRam

Let me bump up the short list again:

Here is the short list (it's not exactly narrowed down, lol)

NAD - C338, C368

Cambridge - CXA60, CXA80

Outlaw - RR2160

Marrantz - PM7005, NR1608

NEW ADDITION: Onkyo - TX-8270


*Below are the bought and paid for speakers and sub:
*
Focal Dome Flax









Gallo Acoustics TR-3D 











Here is why I would really like to have bass management:

Focal Domes

SPECS
ultra-compact satellite speaker for high-performance music and home theater systems
can be placed on a tabletop or speaker stand, or mounted to the wall or ceiling
integrated stand/mount tilts up to 90° for setup flexibility
frequency response: 80-28,000 Hz (±3 dB)
recommended amplifier power: 25-100 watts
impedance: 8 ohms
sensitivity: 88 dB
4" woven flax fiber mid-bass driver with rubber surround
1" aluminum/magnesium inverted dome tweeter
acoustic-suspension (sealed) cabinet design
set screw-style speaker terminals on the underside of the speaker
lacquered high-gloss white aluminum cabinet
designed and constructed in France
5-3/4"W x 6-3/4"H x 5-5/8"D
weight: 4.2 lbs.
warranty: 5 years











TR-3D Subwoofer

Design: Powered Subwoofer, Sealed Enclosure
Driver: 10″ Anodized Aluminum
Amplifier Power: 300 Watts RMS, Class D
MFR: 18 Hz – 180 Hz ± 3 dB
Connections: Two RCA In, Two RCA Out, Five-way Speaker Binding Posts
Phase 0/180 Switch
Low Pass: 50 to 180Hz, Continuously Variable with LFE By-pass Switch
Bass EQ: 0, +3dB, +6dB, 30Hz Center Frequency
Dimensions: 12″ H x 10.75″ W x 13.5″ D
Weight: 33 Pounds
MSRP: $984.50 USD
*
I would be great to set the sub at 100-105ish LP and have the ability to set the speakers HP. I'll take measurements to see how it looks in REW first of ofcourse...

With bass management, I'll be able to blend the sub and speakers nicely, and take a little strain off of these little satellites.*

_Am I making too big of a deal out of this??_


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> David, I saw the post about that Onkyo 8270 on AVS. If you could make it fit height wise, looks like it could be perfect for you.


It really does, especially if I want to save a little money... I read a review by some publication (can't remember the name, maybe what hifi?) and the reviews compared the Onkyo 8270 and the Outlaw RR2160 back to back. He felt the Outlaw was superior in terms of sound quality, but Onkyo was excellent in terms of connectivity and value. However, the the Outlaw seems to get many accolades for it's sound and output. 

I have decided to make the taller units fit (which involves cutting up or rebuilding the shelving unit), but I still have to restrict the depth to a max of approx 15".



Viggen said:


> AVR are more common due to not being made for SQ, kinda throw as much stuff in a box to hit whatever price point they want to reach.
> 
> 2 CH receivers seems to be more for SQ and are more bare bones.
> 
> If space is tight above whatever receiver you get AC Infinity makes some really nice slim cooling fans. I purchased a used 3ch amp last week and the guy I purchased it from has the same pre/pro I use, he showed me all of the cooling fans that help keep his electronics cool.
> 
> If you have a local nice audio shop, I would pay them a visit


That makes good sense for sure... Typically, I would lean more heavily toward SQ. 
Thanks, I'll check out those fans!



Holmz said:


> There are, or were, at least 3 good ones within a 30-45 minute drive.
> I think that they cater to a higher price point demographic, but it may be worth a visit.
> 
> Given the Haus-Boss has spoken, I am not sure what the reciever would receive? Why not just run an amplifier?
> 
> If it is just streaming from an iPhone then having a AM/FM/CD receiver may not be as good a just something simpler, like a blue tooth speaker/amp combo?
> (a good bare amplifier may still need a volume knob)
> 
> But as the Haus-Boss has spoken, I am not sure there is a better solution than yet another Bose?


Oh, please no. I will never buy a Bose ANYTHING again... I have had too many of those already. I have even owned their $600 "wave" clock radio. :blush:
I am looking at integrated amplifiers, too...


----------



## Holmz

https://www.georgemeyer-av.com/jolida-tube-transistor-amplifier/


----------



## DavidRam

I was reading the TR-3D manual and trying to understand the high level inputs... 

The manual says:
CONNECTIONS - HIGH LEVEL IN/OUT
The HIGH LEVEL IN is used to connect your amplifier
to your subwoofer using speaker cables. You can then
connect a pair of speaker to the HIGH LEVEL OUT. This
will also activate the subwoofers built-in crossover, and
protect the speakers from the lowest frequencies.

*Do I want to connect my speakers through the sub??? Are there any draw backs to this?? Would it take care of my need for bass management in the receiver?*
Edit: I just read this, High pass is 100Hz fixed, 1st order on high-level output.


----------



## DavidRam

I spoke Gallo and they confirmed that it would be perfectly fine to connect my speakers to the sub's high level output to take advantage of the HP of 100hz!

So I'm removing bass management from the list of requirements... 

The Finalists:

Cambridge CXA60 $749 @ Crutchfield
Pros - sound quality, excellent reviews and ratings, good looks
Cons - no built in BT, the largest of the two, highest price
https://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/cxa60.html


Nad C338 $649 @ Crutchfield
Pros - lowest price, smallest of the two, built in BT
Cons - less favorable reviews than the CXA60, not as good looking imho
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_745C338/NAD-C-338.html?search=c338&skipvs=T


Check out this review (one of many that I have read):
C338
https://www.whathifi.com/nad/c-338/review

and this one:
CXA60
https://www.whathifi.com/cambridge-audio/cxa60/review


----------



## mbradlawrence

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/speaker_systems/nx-n500/

I was amazed by this set up!

And if you don’t mind factory refused, see below. I had good luck with this site

https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...ed-networking-speaker-w/musiccast-pair/1.html


----------



## Viggen

Reading on a home audio forum, looks like infinity has some of their speakers on sale. Not sure if you can fit any of these into your system but it might be worth looking into.

I am considering going with a few of their 12in subs. At only $200 each vs $500 msrp it’s hard to pass up. This will buy me some time to get a proper SQ sub st a later date.... 

They also have conventional bookshelf speakers on sale for over 50% off, no clue how they compare to the focal speakers you were looking at, but again might be worth considering. That is if they pass the wife test....


----------



## DavidRam

Viggen said:


> Reading on a home audio forum, looks like infinity has some of their speakers on sale. Not sure if you can fit any of these into your system but it might be worth looking into.
> 
> I am considering going with a few of their 12in subs. At only $200 each vs $500 msrp it’s hard to pass up. This will buy me some time to get a proper SQ sub st a later date....
> 
> They also have conventional bookshelf speakers on sale for over 50% off, no clue how they compare to the focal speakers you were looking at, but again might be worth considering. That is if they pass the wife test....


Thanks, that sounds like a hell of a deal...

I actually already ordered and received the Focal Dome Flax speakers, and the I ordered the Gallo Acoustics TR-3D sub that should be here by Thursday.


----------



## DavidRam

I went ahead and ordered the Cambridge CXA60 in silver from Crutchfield...


----------



## dcfis

Your doing good! Any reason you didnt look at the gallo satellites? That cylinder tweeter is about the sweetest Ive heard


----------



## DavidRam

dcfis said:


> Your doing good! Any reason you didnt look at the gallo satellites? That cylinder tweeter is about the sweetest Ive heard


Oh, I did look at them for sure... They were well out of my budget, though. Someday... 

You are talking about these, right?


----------



## DavidRam

I wish there was a way I could borrow a bunch of speakers and set up the living room like this while my wife is at work... SURPRISE!!!   












EDIT: Not sure if she would be more shocked by all the speakers, or by Hillary's hideous face on the TV screen! Lmao
I HAD to throw that in there...


----------



## DeLander

Haha. That would be awesome and funny as hell ! And you could be just sitting there like nothing happened when she came in. ??


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Haha. That would be awesome and funny as hell ! And you could be just sitting there like nothing happened when she came in. ??


Yep..! I'd nonchalantly say, "Hi hon, how was your day?" :laugh:


----------



## DeLander

???lol


----------



## DeLander

Glad to see you reached a decision on the receiver also. Sounds like you’re building a nice system man. Now, you need to start research for source units ??
AVS will definitely come in handy there too. 
Todd ( aka tk123 )


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Glad to see you reached a decision on the receiver also. Sounds like you’re building a nice system man. Now, you need to start research for source units ??
> AVS will definitely come in handy there too.
> Todd ( aka tk123 )


Thanks! Severely over budget, but it should be decent in the end... 

As long as I am happy with the Cambridge (how could I not be?), I will get the matching CD player and I have a Fiio x3 4th gen that I will be using for my hi-res collection.


----------



## DavidRam

It seems like half of this thread is gone... Interestingly, it starts where my plans had to exclude large floor and book shelf speakers, so I guess it's ok.


----------



## DavidRam

The receiver and subwoofer should be here this week... In the meantime, I decided to drill holes to drop the speaker wires down through the wall. 

I will have to run a 30' coax cable to connect the Fiio from the listening position on the sofa. I got some white Techflex so the cable will blend in along the baseboard as it wraps half way around the room.


----------



## DavidRam

Wow!!! Crutchfield did NOT live up to their reputation, AT ALL!!

First, I received the Cambridge amp that I bought at full price, but it was clearly an "open box", customer return item. The re-packaging was terrible and it had some scratches, scuffs and nicks. I didn't even power it on, I just took some pictures and put it right back in the box... 

After 25 minutes on the phone, "no problem, we'll ship you out a new one today." An hour later I got a call saying that they actually don't have it in stock and it's back ordered indefinitely in the silver color! 

After an additional 40 minutes on the phone with a total of 3 cs reps, including being on hold for 20 of those minutes, I just got tired... 

****. Ok. "I'll take the black one and give me the CD player while we are at it..." So I asked them for a little break on the order for the bull ****, run around. They offered me a whole $37 discount on the new order (total $1,198), but to redeem the discount there was going to be a check out process that was so complicated I said, "forget it, I'll worry about the discount later!" 

I asked to at least have the shipping upgraded to "Expedited", but they said no. 

Rant over. 


Edit: This reminds me of why I almost always, only shop on Amazon. They bend over backwards over a measly $40 order that arrives a day late.


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Wow!!! Crutchfield did NOT live up to their reputation, AT ALL!!
> 
> First, I received the Cambridge amp that I bought at full price, but it was clearly an "open box", customer return item. The re-packaging was terrible and the receiver had some scratches, scuffs and nicks. I didn't even power it on, I just took some pictures and put it right back in the box...
> 
> After 25 minutes on the phone, "no problem, we'll ship you out a new one today." An hour later I got a call saying that they actually don't have it in stock and it's back ordered indefinitely in the silver color!
> 
> After an additional 40 minutes on the phone with a total of 3 cs reps, including being on hold for 20 of those minutes, I just got tired...
> 
> ****. Ok. "I'll take the black one and give me the CD player while we are at it..." So I asked them for a little break on the order for the bull ****, run around. They offered me a whole $37 discount on the new order (total $1,198), but to redeem the discount there was going to be a check out process that was so complicated I said, "forget it, I'll worry about the discount later!"
> 
> I asked to at least have the shipping upgraded to "Expedited", but they said no.
> 
> Rant over.
> 
> 
> Edit: This reminds me of why I almost always, only shop on Amazon. They bend over backwards over a measly $40 order that arrives a day late.


That sucks ...and evidently, so does Crutchfield.


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> That sucks ...and evidently, so does Crutchfield.


Long story short, I am getting the black Cambridge instead of the silver (which I really wanted)... You guys aren't going to believe this, but I added some aluminum trim to the shelving unit to match the CXA60s color! Damn it, lol!


Btw, I looked them up on Yelp and their reviews aren't all that great, at least not as good as I expected given their reputation... Also, their "not recommended" reviews are even worse. Anyways, I added to their negative reviews and I dare Yelp to push my review down. Let's just say, me and Yelp have been battling for a long time... 

I have a theory that paying advertisers on Yelp get special treatment and Yelp pushes their negative reviews down to show more positive reviews on top...


----------



## Holmz

DavidRam said:


> Long story short, I am getting the black Cambridge instead of the silver (which I really wanted)... You guys aren't going to believe this, but I added some aluminum trim to the shelving unit to match the CXA60s color! Damn it, lol!
> ...


Why?
Why get what you do not want at full price?


----------



## DavidRam

Holmz said:


> Why?
> Why get what you do not want at full price?


That's a good question... I just got tired of being on the phone for so long and expecting good service and getting crappy service. They wore me out... I am a very busy person and there is only so much time and effort I can put into things and I reached my limit with the Crutchfield issue.

My living room is a big mess as I am trying to get the system set up... Waiting to find someone else with a better price and then waiting some more to get it shipped is not an option anymore. 

Hopefully, if there is ever a problem with these things, Crutchfield will live up to their reputation. At this point, I'll probably never shop with them again. Their loss - I spend a lot of money on electronics, around $20,000 in the last three years. 

**** em, I'll shop elsewhere...


----------



## Holmz

Well you did not seem too interested in the used Jolido up at George Meyers. It seems like for about the same price or less, and aluminum... that it would have been perfect.

Maybe that post was lost?

I get frustrated with service like you got from Crutchfield, so I would have made them take it back rather than be reminded each time I look at the unit and feel the back side tense up.

Crutchfield had been OK with me so far.


----------



## DavidRam

Holmz said:


> Well you did not seem too interested in the used Jolido up at George Meyers. It seems like for about the same price or less, and aluminum... that it would have been perfect.
> 
> Maybe that post was lost?
> 
> I get frustrated with service like you got from Crutchfield, so I would have made them take it back rather than be reminded each time I look at the unit and feel the back side tense up.
> 
> Crutchfield had been OK with me so far.


Not sure what happened to that post, I don't remember seeing it... Of course this site has been a mess lately... But generally I don't buy anything used.

I am rather quick to forgive (for better or for worse), so as long as they send me what I ordered in perfect condition, everything will be good. If I have another issue though, I will send it all back and tell them to go **** themselves.

Funny thing is, the Gallo sub also came with a little damage and the Gallo dealer bent over backwards to get me a replacement and compensation! They were absolutely incredible and more than willing to do whatever it took to make it right... 

Also, Creative Audio were I bought the Focals, gave me a great price and shipped it fast and they were great people to chat car audio with...

I highly recommend these guys: https://creativeaudio.net/ 
Their staff is very knowledgeable and they offer great pricing (call them for that).


----------



## Holmz

DavidRam said:


> Not sure what happened to that post, I don't remember seeing it... Of course this site has been a mess lately... But generally I don't buy anything used.
> ...


The suggestion was the George Meyers AV is up off of Slauson or Century and west of the 110.

They have some stunning used gear. and gear that was 3-10k new.
It costs nothing to look.

Their used amp look nice to my eyes: https://www.georgemeyer-av.com/jolida-tube-transistor-amplifier/ and was cheaper and likely better than a lot in that $ range...

And you could actually listen to it with your speakers first and inspect it...

Some of their other gear was better but still way over your budget (and mine).




DavidRam said:


> ... But generally I don't buy anything used...


Well that Crutchfield one was also used, so at this point...

If you are going for a used amp get the best one you can get, rather than getting brow beaten into accepting "god knows what" from them... Unless you actually NOW? trust them?


----------



## Old Skewl

Sorry to hear about your crutchfield experience. I have been dealing with them for about 30 years and have always had excellent service. Yours is the 3rd review on this site I have read in the last year that has been unsatisfactory. Their prices are not the cheapest, but I could usually justify the price for the service received. Best of luck!


----------



## DavidRam

So this will be the pair that should arrive (hopefully without further incident) this week.


----------



## dcfis

That should work very well. You still require a CD player? Move to SSD based streamer or a media player


----------



## DavidRam

dcfis said:


> That should work very well. You still require a CD player? Move to SSD based streamer or a media player


I have hundreds of CDs (and I still buy more) and then there's nostalgia... 

It kinda hurt to pay $450 for a ****ing CD player, but the reviews are EXCELLENT and it should last me for many years. 

I already have a Fiio X3 that will store and play my flac collection, so I've got that covered...


----------



## Lycancatt

DavidRam said:


> Long story short, I am getting the black Cambridge instead of the silver (which I really wanted)... You guys aren't going to believe this, but I added some aluminum trim to the shelving unit to match the CXA60s color! Damn it, lol!
> 
> 
> Btw, I looked them up on Yelp and their reviews aren't all that great, at least not as good as I expected given their reputation... Also, their "not recommended" reviews are even worse. Anyways, I added to their negative reviews and I dare Yelp to push my review down. Let's just say, me and Yelp have been battling for a long time...
> 
> I have a theory that paying advertisers on Yelp get special treatment and Yelp pushes their negative reviews down to show more positive reviews on top...



I have a theory that this happens on this site too..

glad you settled on something! last I checked this thread was on page 3 wow! Cambridge is damn nice stuff, what speakers are you going for? diy sub?


----------



## DavidRam

To add insult to injury, CF promised me if I ordered the replacement units right then and there, they would ship out yesterday. I just checked tracking, they did NOT ship. 
Well, thanks Crutchfield! The only thing missing on my order, is for them to tell me to go **** myself! Lol


----------



## DavidRam

Lycancatt said:


> I have a theory that this happens on this site too..
> 
> glad you settled on something! last I checked this thread was on page 3 wow! Cambridge is damn nice stuff, what speakers are you going for? diy sub?


You probably have a point there, money talks... 

I already bought and received Focal Dome Flax speakers and Gallo Acoustics TR-3D subwoofer. 

The reviews on both of the Cambridge units are all excellent, I can't wait to get it all set up and give it a listen. 

I did hold the damaged amp in my hands and it is beautifully made and feels solid as a rock...


----------



## DavidRam

Got everything in and installed, for the most part... Just waiting for a couple cables to power it up and give it a listen.


----------



## DavidRam

So to add a few more bits of drama to this whole thing: the amp that was damaged/open-box that I returned to Crutchfield got lost by UPS and a claim has now been filed.

Also, the Gallo subwoofer came in damaged so I had to return it and when I received the second sub it was perfect, except it was missing the power cable! Lmao!! The Gallo dealer has been VERY awesome and accommodating, though, so no complaints there...


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> So to add a few more bits of drama to this whole thing: the amp that was damaged/open-box that I returned to Crutchfield got lost by UPS and a claim has now been filed.
> 
> Also, the Gallo subwoofer came in damaged so I had to return it and when I received the second sub it was perfect, except it was missing the power cable! Lmao!! The Gallo dealer has been VERY awesome and accommodating, though, so no complaints there...


Might be time to buy a lottery ticket, your streak of bad luck must surely be about to change.


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Might be time to buy a lottery ticket, your streak of bad luck must surely be about to change.


Probably! Lol

I guess it's just electronics... nothing to get too upset over.


----------



## Holmz

Grinder said:


> Might be time to buy a lottery ticket, your streak of bad luck must surely be about to change.


I am not sure luck had a role here...

I am waiting to see what the Mrs says after she demanded it be white. Maybe he'll get lucky?


----------



## DavidRam

Holmz said:


> I am not sure luck had a role here...
> 
> I am waiting to see what the Mrs says after she demanded it be white. Maybe he'll get lucky?


She does like them... Despite being "big, black boxes" the whole set up looks nice and sleek and blends in to the look of our home. She thinks the speakers look really amazing (let's hope they sound the same) and likes the clean, wall mounted, cable-less install. I'll take some better pics once I get it all connected and I clean up the wiring.
The sub sure fits perfectly into that little area under the table and looks really cool, too. imho.
I can't wait to listen to it... Just waiting on the Gallo sub power cable.


----------



## Holmz

DavidRam said:


> ...
> 
> Just waiting on the Gallo sub power cable.


Don;t hold yer breath... As I am sure Gallo will release no cable before its time..





(Please just ignore the fact that Paul Mason is not actually the same as Gallo... but they were pretty much the same sort of swill)


I am pretty sure the fellow in the video brought the idea/concept of the original subwoofer notes - in the form of the special effects being traced back to his epic audio broadcast.

Then there was that Rosebud incident...


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> She does like them... Despite being "big, black boxes" the whole set up looks nice and sleek and blends in to the look of our home. She thinks the speakers look really amazing (let's hope they sound the same) and likes the clean, wall mounted, cable-less install. I'll take some better pics once I get it all connected and I clean up the wiring.
> The sub sure fits perfectly into that little area under the table and looks really cool, too. imho.
> I can't wait to listen to it... Just waiting on the Gallo sub power cable.


Judging by the pictures, I think you lucked out with the black-only Cambridge. FWIW, I thought your preference for silver seemed at odds with your decor, as black would blend in so much more nicely than silver, and it seemed that above all the ideal system would be "heard but not seen."


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Judging by the pictures, I think you lucked out with the black-only Cambridge. FWIW, I thought your preference for silver seemed at odds with your decor, as black would blend in so much more nicely than silver, and it seemed that above all the ideal system would be "heard but not seen."


That is exactly what I thought when I first installed the black components. You can hardly see them at all.


----------



## DavidRam

Since this system has become all about form over function, why not continue with this?! 




















https://www.crutchfield.com/p_252VTERR/Pro-Ject-VTE-Red.html?tp=75887


----------



## DeLander

Setup looks really nice David. I hope it sounds good and you can enjoy it for a long time. ?


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Setup looks really nice David. I hope it sounds good and you can enjoy it for a long time. ?


Thanks! And many thanks again to everyone's help and advise...

To me and my wife, it looks absolutely beautiful and it only adds to the look of our home... Hopefully, it sounds as good as it looks! 

I connected the CD player via optical, and the Fiio via coax. I have a few more inputs... One of them will go to the turntable at some point.

I am going to try to figure out how to connect my TV to the amp, for the unlikely occasion that I watch a movie or concert. 

We have a ton of DVDs that we haven't watched in a long time... Now my wife is asking for a DVD player, too. *Any recommendations on that?? Does the audio usually connect directly to the DVD player or does it run through the TV??*


----------



## DavidRam

I finally was able to give it a listen last night and all I can say is "WOW"! It sounds un-****ing-believable!!

It is warm and detailed and the little Gallo sub can go sooooo low... 

I did connected the speakers to the sub to use it's crossover and set it to 100hz.

I gave my wife a demo and she just sat there wide-eyed at how good it sounds! :laugh:


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> I finally was able to give it a listen last night and all I can say is "WOW"! It sounds un-****ing-believable!!
> 
> It is warm and detailed and the little Gallo sub can go sooooo low...
> 
> I did connected the speakers to the sub to use it's crossover and set it to 100hz.
> 
> I gave my wife a demo and she just sat there wide-eyed at how good it sounds! :laugh:


SUCCESS!!!

Glad to hear it.


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> SUCCESS!!!
> 
> Glad to hear it.


Thanks!!

The first CD I played was Melody Gardot - My One and Only Thrill, then I cycled through the usual suspects, Tears for Fears - Woman in Chains, Dire Straits - On Every Street, etc.. It just kept getting better and better! 

I seriously can't believe how much output this little sub has, it puts a lot of car subs to shame and it's tiny (10.75" W x 12" H x 13.5" D).. I wonder why there aren't any really good self powered subs like this for car audio.


----------



## Old Skewl

Congrats! I'm glad it turned out nice even tough it wasn't easy getting there. The sound is what its all about anyway.


----------



## Viggen

Great to know your system is enjoyed by everyone!! 

Just like car audio, home audio is also quite addictive

The upgrade bug hits just like it does for car audio....


----------



## DeLander

David, you might want to consider a Blu-Ray player. 
What display are you using ? 
It’s normal practice to run signal into the receiver from the source, then out to the display. Of course, I’m thinking mainly of home theater receivers, not stereo. I don’t remember off hand what receiver you got, so we can tell the best connection situation. I’m going to look it up.


----------



## DeLander

Well, since there doesn’t appear to be any video inputs or outputs, the audio will need to be sent from the source via optical or coax digital to the receiver. In addition, the video will need to be sent directly to the display. 
However, if the display has digital audio output, you could run the audio/video signal to the display, then run digital output from there to the receiver. 
Hope this makes sense. 
What display ?


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> David, you might want to consider a Blu-Ray player.
> What display are you using ?
> It’s normal practice to run signal into the receiver from the source, then out to the display. Of course, I’m thinking mainly of home theater receivers, not stereo. I don’t remember off hand what receiver you got, so we can tell the best connection situation. I’m going to look it up.





DeLander said:


> Well, since there doesn’t appear to be any video inputs or outputs, the audio will need to be sent from the source via optical or coax digital to the receiver. In addition, the video will need to be sent directly to the display.
> However, if the display has digital audio output, you could run the audio/video signal to the display, then run digital output from there to the receiver.
> Hope this makes sense.
> What display ?


Sorry I missed these posts... It's a 6 year old LG 47LM7600.

I got the Cambridge CXA60 and the CXC cd player. I picked up a cheap DVD player off Amazon (Panasonic DVD-S700 HDMI)... Again, it will be used very rarely.

I'll have to look into what connections I have. It would be nice to take the sound directly out of the DVD player if possible. The DVD will connect to the TV via HDMI...


----------



## DavidRam

Viggen said:


> Great to know your system is enjoyed by everyone!!
> 
> Just like car audio, home audio is also quite addictive
> 
> The upgrade bug hits just like it does for car audio....


Thanks!! "by everyone", I see what you did there. 

I hear ya about the addiction... Fortunately (or unfortunately), I just got a new vehicle so I'll be starting that build shortly. My poor wife, how does she put up with me. :blush:


----------



## Grinder

DavidRam said:


> Sorry I missed these posts... It's a 6 year old LG 47LM7600.
> 
> I got the Cambridge CXA60 and the CXC cd player. I picked up a cheap DVD player off Amazon (Panasonic DVD-S700 HDMI)... Again, it will be used very rarely.
> 
> I'll have to look into what connections I have. *It would be nice to take the sound directly out of the DVD player if possible. The DVD will connect to the TV via HDMI...*


Your LG 47LM7600 has optical out. Seems to me your best bet would be connect that to one of the two optical inputs of your CXA60 (as your LG will receive both audio and video signal from your DVD via HDMI).


----------



## DeLander

What Grinder said. Unless the digital out from the display only carries 2 channel information ( 2.0 not 2.1 Audio ). In that case, run HDMI to the display and digital audio separately to the receiver.


----------



## DavidRam

Grinder said:


> Your LG 47LM7600 has optical out. Seems to me your best bet would be connect that to one of the two optical inputs of your CXA60 (as your LG will receive both audio and video signal from your DVD via HDMI).





DeLander said:


> What Grinder said. Unless the digital out from the display only carries 2 channel information ( 2.0 not 2.1 Audio ). In that case, run HDMI to the display and digital audio separately to the receiver.


Wow, great thanks guys!

Here are the out/inputs available on the TV:
AV INPUTS/OUTPUTS
AV In 1 (Rear)
Component Video In 1 (Rear)
(Y, Pb, Pr) + Audio
Digital Audio Out (Optical) 1 (Rear)
HDMI™/HDCP Input 4 (Side)
RGB In (D-Sub 15 Pin) - PC 1 (Rear)
PC Audio Input 1 (Rear)
USB 2.0 3 (Side)
LAN 1 (Rear)

Optical would be perfect as Grinder said, I have 2 optical inputs on the CXA60 and one is already occupied by the CD player.

Now that I think about it, I do have a couple concerts on DVD and it would be fun to watch them with good sound. One of them is Metallica's S&M! 

I can't emphasize how good this system sounds! It makes me realize how difficult car audio is in comparison... It takes many hours of tedious install and many more hours of tuning to get the results in a car, that I am getting right out of the box in my living room!
Oh, and I can't even imagine what "better" sounds like if I would have done some full size bookshelf or floor speakers...


----------



## DeLander

Easy enough to find out if the TV audio output is 2.0 or 2.1. Just connect a digital audio cable between it and the receiver. 
I remember, ( it has been a while tho ), some only send “stereo “ 2.0 audio out because that’s how many speakers are actually built into the display and processed for.


----------



## DavidRam

DeLander said:


> Easy enough to find out if the TV audio output is 2.0 or 2.1. Just connect a digital audio cable between it and the receiver.
> I remember, ( it has been a while tho ), some only send “stereo “ 2.0 audio out because that’s how many speakers are actually built into the display and processed for.


I ordered another optical cable to go from the TV to the Cambridge... The DVD is connected via hdmi to the TV right now. 


On a different note, my original max budget of $1,500 for this was laughable... 
I am easily at double the max budget. :blush: Oh well, live and learn. 

After having the equipment for a bit, I am loving it more and more and I am glad I got what I got. I am even happy I ended up with the black components (vs silver) as they blend into their surroundings and are hardly noticeable.


----------



## BP1Fanatic

Wow! Have you used REW on your AVS? The software is free on AVSforum.com. 

FREQUENCY RESPONSE
<5Hz– 60kHz +/-1dB


----------



## etroze

DavidRam just found this thread. Nice components, I would've suggested the same thing with a higher budget than your original 1500 bucks. I was on the same quest when I was in Turkey. I didn't want to bring high end components with me so I went with Emotiva. I have the B1s feed off an A100, man they get clean and loud. I also opted for the basx 8" sub and it does a decent job for what I want. My dac I'm using is a schiit magi 3, so I just swap optical cables if I'm playing with different sources. The best part of it all is the system does everything from movies, TV, gaming, 2 ch I listen and more power than anyone ever needs for headphones. I rarely need to change anything when changing sources. 
Enough about my little setup how are you enjoying yours? Getting the itch to expand yet?


----------



## DavidRam

etroze said:


> DavidRam just found this thread. Nice components, I would've suggested the same thing with a higher budget than your original 1500 bucks. I was on the same quest when I was in Turkey. I didn't want to bring high end components with me so I went with Emotiva. I have the B1s feed off an A100, man they get clean and loud. I also opted for the basx 8" sub and it does a decent job for what I want. My dac I'm using is a schiit magi 3, so I just swap optical cables if I'm playing with different sources. The best part of it all is the system does everything from movies, TV, gaming, 2 ch I listen and more power than anyone ever needs for headphones. I rarely need to change anything when changing sources.
> Enough about my little setup how are you enjoying yours? Getting the itch to expand yet?


Thanks E, I really enjoy it! The Anthony Gallo sub always amazes me with how low it can play and how good the whole system sounds... 

I'm not looking to expand this one yet. My passion is still *car* audio, and there are some expansions going on there. 

Do you still have your Ram RCSB?


----------



## JVD240

Sweet little setup!

I have the CXA80 and love it. I kinda want the streamer to match. Lol.


----------

