# Single 15" Infinite Baffle Design Choices



## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

I have read every thread I can find on IB installations and I'm still undecided on what to do here. I currently have a JL Stealthbox (corner loaded/sealed 12W6 v2) in my 2010 BMW 535i powered by a JL XD600/1 (400w @ 4 ohm, 600w @ 2 ohm). My car does not have fold down seats, nor a ski pass, BUT, I have a flip down armrest and the seat is easy to cut, so I can open up a 10" x 6" hole to the trunk. As with most BMWs, the trunk is very well sealed.

I want to do an IB installation, firing the sub through the "ski pass," with a single 15" sub. Why not two? I want to take up as little space as possible, and the seatback is SOLID, so my only chance to vent to the cabin is through that hole that I cut. That and I can essentially mount the baffle to the back seat and be done with it.

So given the above parameters, what should I pick? My short list is:

IDMAX15
ID15 v3
AE SBP15
FI IB3 15

I'm leaning toward the AE SBP15, but I want to make sure it will net me the same output as something like an IDQ12v2 in a ported box. I'm not a basshead, but I want a little something going on.

Thoughts? Cost is a factor, but not the end-all-be-all.


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## Focused4door (Aug 15, 2015)

JBL GT5-15 is another good IB driver.


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## Beckerson1 (Jul 3, 2012)

The only reason you may not be able to run two 15s would be if you couldn't achieve a large enough area for the vent. You want to avoid creating a ported type scenerio. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but iirc at least the same volume as the cone itself.


There are tons of subs out there which could be used IB. Generally, not always, if it fairs well sealed it should do fine IB... 

Of the subs you listed all have been used IB iirc or in case of FI built specifically for IB. 

I went with Dayton Audio Ultimax 15 (not a month later the 18 came out. I would've gone with those if they were avaliable at the time. Main reason is larger cone area and xmax) choice due to sale for one, but they seemed to fair quite well in IB setups from my research. Specs seemed to fit very well for IB. So out of a list similar to yours I went with them. So far haven't regretted the decision. I have yet to really toss max power at them due to baffle flex.


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## Focused4door (Aug 15, 2015)

Beckerson1 said:


> The only reason you may not be able to run two 15s would be if you couldn't achieve a large enough area for the vent. You want to avoid creating a ported type scenerio. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but iirc at least the same volume as the cone itself.
> 
> 
> There are tons of subs out there which could be used IB. Generally, not always, if it fairs well sealed it should do fine IB...
> ...


That 18 looks like it would be an awesome home theater sub.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Rton20 is selling a 15" JBL GTI for $275... The GTI is as a good as it gets, period!


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

Do NOT get the SBP15 as I have tried it in this very same set-up and it quickly ran out of steam at elevated (not loud-loud) volume levels. You need two of those for sure.

I switched to the IDMax and I couldn't be happier. Sounds better than the AE and can get very loud. Best bang for your buck for a single driver. Do it, and never look back!


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Hands down one of the best to ever do it...

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/207201-fs-jbl-w15gti-mkii-pair.html


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## maggie-g (Aug 20, 2014)

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-ib385-8-15-infinite-baffle-subwoofer--295-455

dont forget about this little guy. Purpose built for IB


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## low4ever (Apr 27, 2013)

I have a question with IB. My car has a 12" area in the trunk behind the back seat. A 12 wouldn't fit perfectly on a baffle mounted to the back seat. I have been told i could angle the baffle to fit a 12" woofer. My question is, if i angle it there would be quite of bit of space from the back of my seat to the front of the woofers. What should i do about this open space? Is it ok for that space to be there? I was thinking about doing separte baffles for each side. Right under the stock 4x10" opening for the stock speakers(stock speakers removed of course). My baffle would have the stock opening inside. Would this work? 

I hope this is understandable. I have trying to explain this for awhile now. I have a much older car than most of you and i see guys who can mount 18's behind their seat IB. I have nowhere that much space but a huge trunk. I am going for a Sq setup with a little bit of extra "umph" when i want it.

don't mean to thread jack to the OP. Sorry in advance


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

low4ever said:


> I have a question with IB. My car has a 12" area in the trunk behind the back seat. A 12 wouldn't fit perfectly on a baffle mounted to the back seat. I have been told i could angle the baffle to fit a 12" woofer. My question is, if i angle it there would be quite of bit of space from the back of my seat to the front of the woofers. What should i do about this open space? Is it ok for that space to be there? I was thinking about doing separte baffles for each side. Right under the stock 4x10" opening for the stock speakers(stock speakers removed of course). My baffle would have the stock opening inside. Would this work?
> 
> I hope this is understandable. I have trying to explain this for awhile now. I have a much older car than most of you and i see guys who can mount 18's behind their seat IB. I have nowhere that much space but a huge trunk. I am going for a Sq setup with a little bit of extra "umph" when i want it.
> 
> don't mean to thread jack to the OP. Sorry in advance


There's no issue with leaving that space there. Many people mount there IB subs facing the rear. Resulting in a similar empty space and they have no issue. In fact, if you have a large trunk and are only mounting one IB 12", it could actually have better performance because the effective volume behind the sub will be more optimal. Also, leaving the space between the seat and subs lets the bass energy diffuse around and out more uniformly reducing any type of band pass style chambering in front of the sub. IOW it should breath into the cabin with less restriction


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## low4ever (Apr 27, 2013)

t3sn4f2 said:


> There's no issue with leaving that space there. Many people mount there IB subs facing the rear. Resulting in a similar empty space and they have no issue. In fact, if you have a large trunk and are only mounting one IB 12", it could actually have better performance because the effective volume behind the sub will be more optimal. Also, leaving the space between the seat and subs lets the bass energy diffuse around and out more uniformly reducing any type of band pass style chambering in front of the sub. IOW it should breath into the cabin with less restriction


Thanks t3sn4f2. I am actually planning on running 2 12's. Just in different baffles on opposite sides of trunk. Lol my trunk is approx. 20 cu ft. Do you think one would sound better or cleaner i should say? I would love to run 1 15. I just dont think it would work the way i would like too. So i am going with a couple of high excursion 12's.

Anyone got any recommendations for my application as far as subwoofer? 20 Cu ft trunk. I have been trying to model the FI IB3 in that much space. I have a MAC and the WINISD won't work not even the online version. if any body doesn't mind modeling that for me, that would be fantastic.

EDIT: he are the specs just in case someone wants to model it IB3 Series going with the 4 ohm version. 12”, 15”, and 18”
Single 2 and Single 4 Ohm
Cast basket
Wrap around gasket
Kraft pulp fiber reinforced cone
Single layer wide foam surround
Push terminals
Extra heavy lead wire
FEA optimized motor
3” diameter 2 or 4 layer coil
Large single magnet
Single progressive spider


IB312
SINGLE 2 | SINGLE 4
Fs: 23.6 Hz | 23.6 Hz
Re: 1.5 Ohms/coil | 2.8 Ohms/coil
Qms: 4.06 | 4.00
Qes: .67 | .64
Qts: .57 | .55
Mms: 217g | 214g
Sd: 480cm^2 | 480cm^2
Vas: 83.2 l | 83.4 l
Spl: 83.2dB 1W/1m | 83.4dB 1W/1m
Bl: 8.43 N/A | 11.8 N/A
Xmax: 30mm
Rms: 550W @ 20Hz
Sealed box: Infinite Baffle Only
Ported box: N/A
Sub OD: 12.500”
Cut ID: 11.125”
Mounting depth: 6.500”
Displacement: 0.14cuft


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Hands down one of the best to ever do it...
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/207201-fs-jbl-w15gti-mkii-pair.html


Thanks for the heads up - my only concern with those is how physically large it is - same as the IDMAX. But that would be a huge cost savings over the Image Dynamics.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

kaigoss69 said:


> Do NOT get the SBP15 as I have tried it in this very same set-up and it quickly ran out of steam at elevated (not loud-loud) volume levels. You need two of those for sure.
> 
> I switched to the IDMax and I couldn't be happier. Sounds better than the AE and can get very loud. Best bang for your buck for a single driver. Do it, and never look back!


Saw your post on E90post.com and that's what got me inspired. I'm surprised you didn't like the SBP15 though - just not enough output?

You think the one IDMAX would be fine with 600W? Too bad they are so expensive.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

kaigoss69 said:


> Do NOT get the SBP15 as I have tried it in this very same set-up and it quickly ran out of steam at elevated (not loud-loud) volume levels. You need two of those for sure.
> 
> I switched to the IDMax and I couldn't be happier. Sounds better than the AE and can get very loud. Best bang for your buck for a single driver. Do it, and never look back!


I'm going to have disagree completely. I have 2x AESBP 15's and they are amazing subwoofers, I even took the baffle out the other day to take one sub out and give me more room for my amps, then decided to keep them. My point is, they do well enough that I certainly think I can get away with just one, but since I have two, I figured I might as well keep it as is.

There is someone else here that switched to the IDMax from the AE, and was happy with the switch I don't remember who it was though. The IDMax is a higher distortion driver, but some people really love that. People like some distortion in the bass, it sounds fuller, and louder than ultra low distortion sub bass.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

Would I be better off with two ID15 v3s or two other "shallower" 15s through that same pass through as I would with a single high excursion 15?


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

rcurley55 said:


> Would I be better off with two ID15 v3s or two other "shallower" 15s through that same pass through as I would with a single high excursion 15?


That'll depend on high high excursion of a sub you want, and how low excursion the other two are. The total displacement is what matters, but keep in mind with a single woofer, distortion will rise as excursion rises, so 2 woofers that are being pushed to lower limits will have less excursion than one that is pushed hard peak to peak. Plus, taking the same power and distributing it among two woofers will give you about 3db more for free since the waves will combine constructively.

I would take two lower excursion subs over a single high excursion sub of the same cone diameter.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

gijoe said:


> That'll depend on high high excursion of a sub you want, and how low excursion the other two are. The total displacement is what matters, but keep in mind with a single woofer, distortion will rise as excursion rises, so 2 woofers that are being pushed to lower limits will have less excursion than one that is pushed hard peak to peak. Plus, taking the same power and distributing it among two woofers will give you about 3db more for free since the waves will combine constructively.
> 
> I would take two lower excursion subs over a single high excursion sub of the same cone diameter.


I'm more worried about the fact that I'm going to try to cram all of that through the skipass and that's it - there is no other permeable surface (essentially) between the trunk and the cabin.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

rcurley55 said:


> I have read every thread I can find on IB installations and I'm still undecided on what to do here. I currently have a JL Stealthbox (corner loaded/sealed 12W6 v2) in my 2010 BMW 535i powered by a JL XD600/1 (400w @ 4 ohm, 600w @ 2 ohm). My car does not have fold down seats, nor a ski pass, BUT, I have a flip down armrest and the seat is easy to cut, so I can open up a 10" x 6" hole to the trunk. As with most BMWs, the trunk is very well sealed.
> 
> I want to do an IB installation, firing the sub through the "ski pass," with a single 15" sub. Why not two? I want to take up as little space as possible, and the seatback is SOLID, so my only chance to vent to the cabin is through that hole that I cut. That and I can essentially mount the baffle to the back seat and be done with it.
> 
> ...


I love infinite baffle. I don't think I've ever heard it sound bad.

IMHO, the greatest thing about it is that you can use absolute **** drivers, and it still works pretty darn good. For instance, Emerald Acoustics uses the absolute cheapest fifteen that Eminence sells, and it still sounds good. (Dipole and IB are similar.)

The reason why the ****ty drivers work fine is because ****ty drivers have tiny motors and low-tech motors. Due to this, they tend to have high VAS and high QTS. That would suck if you were trying to build a low-efficiency small ported subwoofer. But for IB or dipole? It works just fine.

Obviously, expensive drivers have their place. But I can't perceive any sonic difference between the $50 Eminence woofers used by Emerald Physics and the $200 woofers used by Linkwitz. Could I tell the difference in a ported box? Absolutely.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

rcurley55 said:


> I'm more worried about the fact that I'm going to try to cram all of that through the skipass and that's it - there is no other permeable surface (essentially) between the trunk and the cabin.


Going THROUGH the skipass hole isn't a problem. But the distance from the woofer to the hole is; if the distance gets long, you're going to get a whopper of a peak above the passband.

I'd do everything possible to keep the distance to a minimum. If using multiple woofers, I'd build something like the Tymphany LAT to keep the pathlengths short.

If that's too much hassle (and it probably is), just get the biggest damn woofer that will fit. Like a fifteen or an eighteen.


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

gijoe said:


> I'm going to have disagree completely. I have 2x AESBP 15's and they are amazing subwoofers, I even took the baffle out the other day to take one sub out and give me more room for my amps, then decided to keep them. My point is, they do well enough that I certainly think I can get away with just one, but since I have two, I figured I might as well keep it as is.
> 
> There is someone else here that switched to the IDMax from the AE, and was happy with the switch I don't remember who it was though. The IDMax is a higher distortion driver, but some people really love that. People like some distortion in the bass, it sounds fuller, and louder than ultra low distortion sub bass.


Run with a single driver for about a week and then get back with me. I have no doubt two would be great, as I said. Unless you have a very small car, a single 15" won't do it. OP has a 535, which is larger than my 335. Besides the volume difference, the IDMax has a much more satisfying sound to it, I call it as having an "edge" to the bass notes, that I have not heard from any other driver, ever. It is hard to describe, but you'll know it when you hear it.


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## YukonXL04 (Mar 6, 2014)

I'm thinking the single large sub over 2 lower excursion subs. I have 2 jbl gto 15s IB right now and am contemplating swapping to my 1 SI HT18 IB. The lower excursion subs just seem to run out of steam before I'm satisfied with the loudness. However my baffle flexes more than I would like and I wonder how much I'm losing because of that as well.


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## Beckerson1 (Jul 3, 2012)

*Re: Single 15&quot; Infinite Baffle Design Choices*



YukonXL04 said:


> I'm thinking the single large sub over 2 lower excursion subs. I have 2 jbl gto 15s IB right now and am contemplating swapping to my 1 SI HT18 IB. The lower excursion subs just seem to run out of steam before I'm satisfied with the loudness. However my baffle flexes more than I would like and I wonder how much I'm losing because of that as well.


You'd have to imagine you'd lose some potential output. Is it enough to be audible idk. Is it enough to hinder the overall quality of sound. Idk, id have to assume it would. At this point in my personal build I'm experiencing flex, doesn't take much, but I belive I found a solution to help strengthen the middle of my baffle and should result in nearly no flex. Theoretically of course. My case it probably will need another brace to eliminate movement.


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## FunkPnut (May 16, 2008)

I have an IDMAX15 firing through a cutout armrest, so similar setup.

Woofers Etc has an open box with warranty on their eBay site for $450. Still a lot of money.
Open Box Image Dynamics IDMAX15 V 4 D4 Pro 15" Dual 4 Ohm 1200W RMS Subwoofer | eBay

The cone area is larger than a typical 15" sub and combined with the excursion capabilities, it can produce a lot of output.

I'm in the camp of "I'm not a basshead" but there are times for me when SQ takes a step down for bass centric music.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I would/could hook you up on a pair of SBP12s with the Apollo upgraded motors...but are 8 ohm coils.

If you wanted 12s.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

Thanks for the offer, but I'm only interested in 15s


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

I have a AE UB15-D3 that I'm willing to sell. From what I understand it is a custom version of the standard IB15. 

I am the 4th owner, and I don't think it has ever seen power. My friend totaled his car, so it never got installed. 

Let me know if your interested.

Here's the history of it

http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141792

Justin


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm starting to think that the IDMAX won't fit...too tall.


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

rcurley55 said:


> I'm starting to think that the IDMAX won't fit...too tall.


Fits in my 335i sedan...


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

The JBL GTO 15 was an absolute winner in my Sonata when I had it.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

If you decide on 12s, let me know.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I have a Dayton Reference HF15 in my car now that I would make you a deal on....only used for a little bit and hasn't been used in the last couple of years . Replacing it with a SBP158A that I have waiting.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

kaigoss69 said:


> Fits in my 335i sedan...


I have a max height of 16 inches - maybe 16.5 - the driver is 16.25 on the outside. I guess I COULD make it work, but for the price, I can have two ID 15s and money in my pocket.


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

rcurley55 said:


> I have a max height of 16 inches - maybe 16.5 - the driver is 16.25 on the outside. I guess I COULD make it work, but for the price, I can have two ID 15s and money in my pocket.


The JBL GTO1514 (if you can find a pair) will be less costly and have a little more XMAX. Great subs, seriously.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

The only think keeping me from two 15" drivers at this point is trying to "funnel" the output from the two through the skipass. I guess I can space the drivers off of the back seat by 1.5", then bottom mount them with a total baffle thickness of 2.25".

Would that work - keeping in mind that my rear seat is not permeable - at all.


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

rcurley55 said:


> The only think keeping me from two 15" drivers at this point is trying to "funnel" the output from the two through the skipass. I guess I can space the drivers off of the back seat by 1.5", then bottom mount them with a total baffle thickness of 2.25".
> 
> Would that work - keeping in mind that my rear seat is not permeable - at all.


That's why a single "monster" sub works so much better. With two subs, first of all the baffle will be a lot less stable, no matter how thick you make it. There is basically no chance to secure a "floating" baffle on the sides (at least not in my car), so no matter how many brackets you fasten on top and bottom, it will still vibrate. With the single sub, the baffle can be screwed against the back seat, giving it a LOT of additional rigidity. Second, a good portion of the sound waves would get "trapped" in the space between the baffle and the back seat. That's why I have one sub that basically does the job of two, from one location.

The money you "save" by going with two subs you will put back into making a stronger baffle, and you will lose output due to baffle vibrations and bass getting trapped. Not worth it if you ask me. Do it right!


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

Forgot to add, the floating baffle is extremely difficult to seal against the sides. You would have to gut the trunk and spend a lot of time to seal it properly. With the single sub, you simply seal against the back seat. Doesn't get any easier.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

I can still seal a dual woofer baffle against the rear seat (and the rear seat only), but it does have an issue with getting the output "trapped"

I was just hoping that I could find something with a little more output that is not as big as a GTi or IDMAX.


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## YukonXL04 (Mar 6, 2014)

Fi ib15?


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

Qtc models really high in my trunk as a single.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

rcurley55 said:


> I have a max height of 16 inches - maybe 16.5 - the driver is 16.25 on the outside. I guess I COULD make it work, but for the price, I can have two ID 15s and money in my pocket.


IDMAX is out - I measured it every which way I could and there is just no way to get it in there and have it sit flat against the seat.

I think my best bet at this point is going to be one of the 14 mm xmax drivers, a GTi 15 (which larger than what I want), or the Fi (even though the Q will be too high in my trunk).


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

rcurley55 said:


> IDMAX is out - I measured it every which way I could and there is just no way to get it in there and have it sit flat against the seat.
> 
> I think my best bet at this point is going to be one of the 14 mm xmax drivers, a GTi 15 (which larger than what I want), or the Fi (even though the Q will be too high in my trunk).


Keep in mind the baffle will push the sub back by an inch or two. Can't imagine the 5 series has less height than the e90, but who knows. Next best single sub for me is JBL Gti and then the JL 13W7. After that there are some DIY or lesser known brands to consider, but I would not recommend a single JBL Gto or ID15. Not enough xmax.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

kaigoss69 said:


> Keep in mind the baffle will push the sub back by an inch or two. Can't imagine the 5 series has less height than the e90, but who knows. Next best single sub for me is JBL Gti and then the JL 13W7. After that there are some DIY or lesser known brands to consider, but I would not recommend a single JBL Gto or ID15. Not enough xmax.


I'm a mechanical engineer - I know how to make stuff fit 










15.75" from the floor to the car










Move about 1.5" away from the back seat and you can get 16.5" in there. The driver is 16.25" in diameter. I'm guessing that the surround is approximately 15.25" to 15.5" in diameter.

So, could I squeeze it in there? Probably? Makes me a little nervous.

I found that same driver in an e9X:










I think there are photos from your car in there too.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

So I did a quick mock up of it. It physically won't fit:










This is assuming a 0.75" protrusion for the surround and the woofer flange is also 0.75" thick (I don't have full dimension drawings of the sub). The surround won't clear the metal, so I would have to mount the sub at least 2" from the back seat and the sub won't physically fit in the car at that angle.

If someone can tell me the dimensions of the flange and surround, I would be grateful, but as of now, it's just too tight to consider.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

hammer a small indention in the sheet metal for the woofer frame, if necessary.

A 1/2" deep groove above and below would be likely invisible and easy enough to return to stock, using low-cost materials...


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

cajunner said:


> hammer a small indention in the sheet metal for the woofer frame, if necessary.
> 
> A 1/2" deep groove above and below would be likely invisible and easy enough to return to stock, using low-cost materials...


Not taking a hammer to my car.


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

rcurley55 said:


> Not taking a hammer to my car.


 Then grind off the subwoofer's frame!


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

rcurley55 said:


> Not taking a hammer to my car.


I can do the dirty deed, if necessary.

once the cover carpet is put back in place, notched for a little frame indention you won't even know a hammer had been around...

don't let the fitment issue make you drop your big piston bass desires to 12" sizing, that would be unnecessary.

And if you get a piece of cardboard cut out to the sub's outer rim size, you will likely be able to fit it in place as a mock-up, without any hammering necessary.

there's computer drawings and then there's real life, and sometimes it's better to do the physical fitment than rely on a simulation.

but hey, I'd not think twice about giving 'er a whack with a ball peen in the right spots, unless of course, the bottom floor is also the gas tank top, in which case I'd see about the rear deck, and how close the deck's cover is from the metal beneath.

A 1/2" opens up a lot of possibility, and you could even make it look factory since they like to put a bunch of indentions and depressions to increase the strength of the panel anyway...


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## YukonXL04 (Mar 6, 2014)

I say go with a 13w7... or a smaller diameter 15. 16.25 is pretty big for a 15


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## ultimatemj (Jan 15, 2009)

I get the IDmax is a "big dog" (934.8cm2 SD w/ 44mm xmax), but unless you are a chasing a max SPL number...why would you give up so much of your trunk and force an oversized driver to play through a smaller opening than the driver? I'd expect an engineer to aim for similar displacement with a more elegant approach 









Four ID8s have 924cm2 SD but "only" 15mm xmax....but that's nearly twice what the JL's used in the M3 had 

Drop them in from the top and the trunk maintains even more usable space:beerchug:












rcurley55 said:


> I'm a mechanical engineer - I know how to make stuff fit


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

rcurley55 said:


> So I did a quick mock up of it. It physically won't fit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rotate it backwards about fifteen degrees. Then it will fit.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

ultimatemj said:


> I get the IDmax is a "big dog" (934.8cm2 SD w/ 44mm xmax), but unless you are a chasing a max SPL number...why would you give up so much of your trunk and force an oversized driver to play through a smaller opening than the driver? I'd expect an engineer to aim for similar displacement with a more elegant approach
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never got those 4 JL IB4s to sound good  Should have worked on paper, but it never did.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Rotate it backwards about fifteen degrees. Then it will fit.


While true, that ups the installation challenge significantly - with two young kids, I gotta get it done fast.

I really want to do the max, going to create a cardboard mockup and see how bad it really is.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Keep in mind you can mask off dramatic amounts of the cone.

I've routinely masked off as much as 75% of the cone and everything works fine.

If it were me I'd tilt it back enough to make it fit, and mask off some of the cone if that's needed to clear the metal that's in the way


















Here's a TC Sounds fifteen where I masked off about 80% of the cone


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