# High End Carputer but faltering at the sofware bit



## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

A HUGE helllo to everyone on DIYMA. 
I am actually in the process of making a massive leap in terms of source quality as I have replaced my Eclipse CD7200MKII with a carputer.
The setup is as follows:
1. Front Stage:
Illusion Audio CH-1 horns with (maybe) Alpine SPX17PRO/Dynaudio MW 162/Creative SDX7 (depends on what I zero down on, finally) woofers powered by a Genesis Stereo 60 and DLS RA20 amplifier respectively.

2. Rear Fill:
Morel Tempo Coaxial speakers powered by a JBL amplifier

3. Subwoofer:
JBL W12GTi powered by a Clarion DPX11551 monoblock amplifier.

The computer in question is a Core i3 based PC with an M4ATX power supply and an Asus Xonar D2X is the soundcard of choice.

I am using Virtual Audio Cable + AUDIOMULCH + Centrafuse as the front end to route audio through the soundcard.
I will be using VST plugins for the following:
1. Frequency allocation for each channel/Crossover etc.
2. Time alignment for each channel
3. 16/32 band eq for each channel

I have a few questions. Kindly help me solve these small niggles:
1. Can someone be kind enough to prepare a schematic diagram (audiomulch) for me, showing me the order in which the plugins should be placed, alongwith actual distribution of audio channels?? I am very confused with the whole 'sound-in' and 'sound-out' bit in audiomulch and the last time I tried, I kind of messed the output, where increasing the subwoofer level also increased the level in the right front speaker.

2. In audiomulch, should I select Directsound or Virtual Audio Cable as the source?

3. Virtual Audio Cable is very confusing, especially the option where one has to 'select' soundcards and turn them on and off. I am absolutely alien to using VAC. Which soundcards to turn off/ on? The soundcards shown are
1. Asus Xonar D2X
2. Realtek ALCxxx codec (the onboard audio)
3. ASIO4ALL

4. Can someone actually run me through how I should make the whole setup work? I have tried several permutations with VAC, Directsound, Asus Audiocenter etc. but I just can't get it to sound well. (most of the time, I don't even get any form of output)

5. I get a few pops and artefacts when I am using directsound.

6. I have good equipment but I am a really confused guy, since my first effort at putting the whole thing together sounded AWFUL.
7. What is ASIO4ALL and what part does it play in all this? How to get it to work?? 
8. Windows 7 or Windows XP? 
9. DO i need to install the WHOLE software package that came with the Asus Xonar D2X (ie the driver + the control center software) or JUST the WDM drivers of the card???

Someone needs to sit me down (literally) and spoonfeed the whole _shebang_ to me. I am at my wit’s end.
Let’s put it this way. I need guidance from the FIRST step (hardware and wiring is all perfect, I just falter at the software bit)


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## audiovibe (Nov 16, 2007)

Durwood had a great writeup on tuning via P.C on MP3car, I did a brief search but couldn't come up with anything.

Edit: Here is some good reading for you.
http://www.mp3car.com/wiki/index.php/Audio_Tuning_via_Software

Never mind, it looks like you are already well past the wiki. Contact Durwood on MP3Car, I dont think he is very active on this forum anymore. His knowledge of the P.C based processing is second to none as I do believe he was one of the first to really dive into it.


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## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

Frankbhai.

Being a software/hardware guy i would be trying to help you on some of the questions.
*
You should use windows XP for now as Driver compatibility is shady in Win 7*

*There is no Chance of using Realtek as Sound card*
For ASIO4ALL read this:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/221237/asio4all-explanation
ASIO4ALL v2 Instruction Manual

I will give you more info later today mostly late at night as i became a "mama" today..

See ya soon..


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## ashman5 (Aug 30, 2009)

We have very similar setups. See my signature.

The only reliable way I've come up with, is to use Centrafuse (output to VAC), VAC will pass audio to Audiomulch.

Setup VAC to control volume (this will allow for volume control in centrafuse)

Setup ASIO4ALL with VAC set as the only "INPUT" and Xonar as the only "OUTPUT".

Set Audiomulch to use ASIO.
Set Inputs to ASIO4ALL/VAC Channel 1 and 2
Set Outputs to ASIO4ALL/Asus Channels 1-8

Wungun did several post, both here, mp3car.com and centrafuse forum, on how to setup the xonar d2. He included photos and are VERY helpful, but you do need to read between the lines on some of the posts. If I can find those posts, I'll re-post them in my thread for future reference. I have the VSTs I use listed there also.


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## ashman5 (Aug 30, 2009)

I use Win7 and it is working great with my setup.

Make sure that the Xonar is the default output device in Win7 and is setup correctly before proceding with the centrafuse/VAC/audiomulch setup.

I initially used the Realtek driver and it worked fine, but the volume output (voltage out) was kinda low. After I got the xonar, I disabled the realtek in the bios.

In VAC, don't worry about the "Audio Repeater" setups. Just go to the VAC Control Panel, set it for 1 cable, "check" volume control, "set" and "restart" (in Win7, must have Admin Privledges). Shouldn't have to worry with it again, as it starts in the background when windows starts up.


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## ashman5 (Aug 30, 2009)

This is one of the post that helped me figure out audiomulch/asio4all interaction

Centrafuse Carputer, CarPC & UMPC Forums - View Single Post - real, windows mixer independent, audio setup


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## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

ashman5 said:


> We have very similar setups. See my signature.
> 
> The only reliable way I've come up with, is to use Centrafuse (output to VAC), VAC will pass audio to Audiomulch.
> 
> ...


Very correct. Using ASIO would be clear from the links i sent as it gives a direct input/output from Audio driver rather than any interfaces in between..


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## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

gee, those responses were really of great help.
i was jus confused. Does the Xonar have internal routing or not?
and does adding VAC in the equation lower quality?? just asking, since i read somewhere that the xonar has internal routing and hence VAC is not required. 1 drawback of this would be that we would only be able to use 6 of the 8 channels of the xonar (since 1 and 2 are dedicated to WDM)
It's slightly confusing this.

DOES VAC have to be a part of THIS equation (with this hardware)?


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## ashman5 (Aug 30, 2009)

xonar doesn't have internal routing. wungun mentions that the 'ALT' function of the xonar could be used instead of VAC, but I've been unable to make it work.

It's my understanding that VAC doesn't alter the sound quality unless the volume control option is used, but you have to enable volume control to control volume in centrafuse with asio.

Using asio, all 8 channels of my xonar are exposed and usable.


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## computerjlt (Nov 29, 2010)

i'm thinking i should have built a carpc instead of buying a 360.2 :-/ 

my next setup will be carpc based for sure


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## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

And how much quality is 'compromised' when we use volume control from VAC? Any one tried it with and without volume control enabled?

AND there is also talk that the Asus Xonar D2X doesn't perform correctly when used with the M4ATX (weak signal etc). Does this hold true?? I even have that extra cable running from the power supply to the soundcard.


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## ashman5 (Aug 30, 2009)

frankmehta said:


> And how much quality is 'compromised' when we use volume control from VAC? Any one tried it with and without volume control enabled?
> 
> AND there is also talk that the Asus Xonar D2X doesn't perform correctly when used with the M4ATX (weak signal etc). Does this hold true?? I even have that extra cable running from the power supply to the soundcard.


I, personally, can't tell the difference. I've got a emu 0202 connected to my desktop computer with an analog pot for volume control. Using that setup, I can't tell any degredation when changing the volume with VAC. But, I don't have the greatest hearing ability.

I also had issues with the M4ATX not having the ablity to power my xonar. The volume output was really low in one channel and the volume of that channel wouldn't change.
It would work fine with the AC power supply and works perfectly with the Opus I now have.


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## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

ALRIGHT, that was helpful!!
More questions now

1. I am in a dilemma: Should I get the Dynaudio MW162/160 (or their GT versions) or should I get the CSS SDX7. What is the whole thing about the low FS, low QTS thing??
I am confused, as I read through a lot of FS, QTS threads and I dont quite understand which one will be having the better impact ('kick') upfront. I will be powering the midbasses with about 140-160 watts @ 4 ohms each and they will be mounted in the stock locations on the doors (no kickpad, no changes to door geometry) 
WHich one will sound better when mounted there???
They will be in a 2 way active setup with Illusion Horns.

2. M4ATX doesn't come on when the car is switched on. What am I doing wrong here??


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## ashman5 (Aug 30, 2009)

1. Can't help much here. Might want to post that question in a seperate thread.

2. Not sure. If you've given it a +12 constant, +12 switched, and ground, it should power up.


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## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

frankmehta said:


> ALRIGHT, that was helpful!!
> More questions now
> 
> 1. I am in a dilemma: Should I get the Dynaudio MW162/160 (or their GT versions) or should I get the CSS SDX7. What is the whole thing about the low FS, low QTS thing??
> ...


Rainbow Profi Kick would be a good choice for you but they wont be going below 80HZ ,

What is your definition of kick.

Midbasses like Exodus Anarchy goes like 50Hz and play very well but the speaker size is too big. Also take into consideration the depth of the speaker.

Fs would be resonant frequency which would change when speaker is mounted in an enclosure.. Low Fs speaker would tend to go lower than high Fs speakers

Its better you open a separate thread for this as gurus would be able to help you out with options..


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## mrplix (Sep 29, 2009)

Also had problems with M2ATX and Xonar (cracks/pops in sound, low level). If I remeber correctly, -12 V line was to weak. 

Fixed it with this TEL 5-1212 - Tracopower - TEL51212 - datasheet - now Xonar is working just fine (I'm kind of weak in electronics - was only told what to buy and where to solder it).


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## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

I have already ordered an Opus 360 power supply.


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## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

EMBARRASSING query: 5.1 output from the soundcard. So how do I connect 2 horns (one amplifier), 2 midbasses (one amplifier), 2 rear coaxials (one amplifier) and one subwoofer (one amplifier) through it.
I know this sounds noobish but I have totally blanked out at the thought.


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## ashman5 (Aug 30, 2009)

I only have a 3way setup, but if I remember correctly, tweeter amp signal comes from the front left and right output, mids come from the rear surround outputs and subs come from the center/sub channel (center to one sub channel and sub to the other). 

You set all of the channels outputs in audiomulch.


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## computerjlt (Nov 29, 2010)

frankmehta said:


> EMBARRASSING query: 5.1 output from the soundcard. So how do I connect 2 horns (one amplifier), 2 midbasses (one amplifier), 2 rear coaxials (one amplifier) and one subwoofer (one amplifier) through it.
> I know this sounds noobish but I have totally blanked out at the thought.


You cant. You will need another channel. 5.1=6 usable channels you would need 7 to do what you just listed


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## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

ashman5 said:


> I use Win7 and it is working great with my setup.
> 
> Make sure that the Xonar is the default output device in Win7 and is setup correctly before proceding with the centrafuse/VAC/audiomulch setup.
> 
> ...


bro, are you sure the Xonar has to be set as the default playback device and NOT VAC???? I am confused!


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## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

In Audiomulch, are we supposed to set the output device as ASIO4ALL or Windows Multimedia??? I am asking since I dont know which one will be better.
And HOW can one configure and use ASIO4ALL at all if you are not going to specify it in Audiomulch (ie if we use windows multimedia as the chosen output vehicle)


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## ashman5 (Aug 30, 2009)

frankmehta said:


> bro, are you sure the Xonar has to be set as the default playback device and NOT VAC???? I am confused!


Sorry...yes VAC needs to be the "default" windows device.


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## ashman5 (Aug 30, 2009)

frankmehta said:


> In Audiomulch, are we supposed to set the output device as ASIO4ALL or Windows Multimedia??? I am asking since I dont know which one will be better.
> And HOW can one configure and use ASIO4ALL at all if you are not going to specify it in Audiomulch (ie if we use windows multimedia as the chosen output vehicle)


Yes, select ASIO4ALL as Audiomulch output.
Then, when you go to the outputs of Audiomulch, the individual channels of the Xonar should be revealed.


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## ryomanx (Feb 18, 2011)

mrplix said:


> Also had problems with M2ATX and Xonar (cracks/pops in sound, low level). If I remeber correctly, -12 V line was to weak.
> 
> Fixed it with this " Tracopower - TEL51212" now Xonar is working just fine (I'm kind of weak in electronics - was only told what to buy and where to solder it).


I'm curious to exactly what you did with that thing?


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## frankmehta (Jan 20, 2009)

what does one do with the ASUS AUDIO CENTER???? Use it or just uninstall it?


AND one more important question. From Windows Sound (control panel), do we configure the device to be 7.1 or just plain stereo??


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## ashman5 (Aug 30, 2009)

frankmehta said:


> what does one do with the ASUS AUDIO CENTER???? Use it or just uninstall it?


Are you using the onboard sound? If not, disable it in the bios and remove the ASUS audio center. If you intend to use the onboard sound, you should probably keep the audio center software also.



frankmehta said:


> AND one more important question. From Windows Sound (control panel), do we configure the device to be 7.1 or just plain stereo??


Not sure it matters. I set mine up as 5.1 and I can still see all 8 channels.


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