# Arc Audio SE amps are not the best design by Robert Zeff



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

I was recently really happy to have bought an Arc SE 4200 but have been disappointed before I even listened to it. The main reason is the top plate design with the four estrogen laden screws that are meant to keep in place.

Which to my dismay covers a crossover, which if it is the best amp he has ever made should have NO internal crossovers. Anyone that seriously wants to use these will not need internal crossovers!

Other than that the sound is top notch and probably is the best but I refuse to use it. 

I will say the guys at ARC are awesome and took care of sending me a replacement screw and are fast to reply to emails.


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## nathan08 (Feb 7, 2011)

for someone with no extra money to buy a DSP after buying this expensive toy...lol


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## robert_wrath (Apr 24, 2011)

May want to consider placing that up against the Zapco C2K-6.0.


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## lizardking (Nov 8, 2008)

Out of all the high end amps I've owned, the SE's have the most floor noise. I ended up back with my dead silent Mcintosh amp. The XXK's I've owned didn't have any floor noise compared to the SE's.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

lizardking said:


> Out of all the high end amps I've owned, the SE's have the most floor noise. I ended up back with my dead silent Mcintosh amp. The XXK's I've owned didn't have any floor noise compared to the SE's.


Interesting for sure. Which McIntosh do you have?


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## lizardking (Nov 8, 2008)

mcc404 bridged


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

lizardking said:


> mcc404 bridged


have you ever used any of the older ones? like the mc versions from late 90's?


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## lizardking (Nov 8, 2008)

Nope, just the MCC404's. Great amp!!


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

lizardking said:


> Nope, just the MCC404's. Great amp!!


well of course 

once you go mcintosh....


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

lizardking said:


> Out of all the high end amps I've owned, the SE's have the most floor noise. I ended up back with my dead silent Mcintosh amp. The XXK's I've owned didn't have any floor noise compared to the SE's.


 Interesting how there always seems to be "real world" feedback that throws a monkey wrench at the presumptions of high end amps.

Tests of McIntosh and Arc SE amps are always good. I mean look at this lab report:
4200 SE
http://www.ianaconi.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/performance_4200SE.pdf

Look at all of the noise reducing circuitry, temperature/thermal control, and quality component like the Sanken output devices that we see used on some high end home amps, etc. chosen for low noise performance:
http://www.arcaudio.com/pdfs/product-manuals/amplifiers/se-series/SE_Manual_web.pdf

With any of these high end amps, a high "floor noise" is the last thing one would expect. But, as we all know, results do vary. As always, individual "In system" testing is the only way to know what works....because the a vehicle can be a brutal place sometimes to install a noise free system.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

I see now why you are selling it. I wonder if kevin ever installed his?


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## hamiltonaudio (Jan 10, 2011)

I've done a bunch of em - and have never had any discernable noise floor. I'm going to attribute your experience to something going on in the install...not necessarily the product. These amps sound NICE.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

The ones i have listened to have not had any floor noise. 

My complaint is the cosmetic design which maybe zeff had nothing to do with.


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## rgiorgio (Nov 21, 2012)

Love my McIntosh MCC444 110x4. There doesnt seem to be many of them out there, but what an amp. Next install will probably ARC SE. All around sizes and configurations seem to make an install a little easier. The Mac's are just huge.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

lizardking said:


> Out of all the high end amps I've owned, the SE's have the most floor noise. I ended up back with my dead silent Mcintosh amp. The XXK's I've owned didn't have any floor noise compared to the SE's.


Guess it depends which amp it is from the same line coz I have an italian test that shows a S/N or 110.2dB for the 2300SE which is much higher than a lot of "other" high end amps - for eg., from the same magazine, the Audison TH Due has 105.4dB, the Genesis DMX has 107.2dB, the Sinfoni 150.2x has 99.4dB, the Mosconi AS100.4 has 104.8dB and the Steg MSK 50 SC has 97.1dB 
Only the Steg MSK 1500 equals it at 110.5dB 

From the same line, the Audison VRx2.250 has 97.6dB while the VRx4.300 has 103.2dB

Kelvin


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

Lizardking you might have had a sub par se amp because all the ones I had were great.

Kelvin do you have any test numbers on the xxk series, McIntosh, or dls ultimate?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

legend94 said:


> Lizardking you might have had a sub par se amp because all the ones I had were great.
> 
> Kelvin do you have any test numbers on the xxk series, McIntosh, or dls ultimate?


Nothing for the XXK nor the McIntosh. I do have a few tests of the Ultimate line though... Which amp do you need? Let's PM 

Kelvin


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

Xxk 4150 is my favorite midbass amp ever.. I guess just because It brings that ugh out of my music... I like the C2ks over the SE any day of the week.. I have A/B them back to back and just could not let go of the C2ks till money got tight. C2ks are the best bang for buck before you start to spend stupid amounts of cash on amps (STEG Stroke Etc) I think those (C2Ks) were designed by ROBERT ZEFF.....


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## mrgreenjeans71 (Jun 14, 2010)

subwoofery said:


> Guess it depends which amp it is from the same line coz I have an italian test that shows a S/N or 110.2dB for the 2300SE which is much higher than a lot of "other" high end amps - for eg., from the same magazine, the Audison TH Due has 105.4dB, the Genesis DMX has 107.2dB, the Sinfoni 150.2x has 99.4dB, the Mosconi AS100.4 has 104.8dB and the Steg MSK 50 SC has 97.1dB
> Only the Steg MSK 1500 equals it at 110.5dB
> 
> From the same line, the Audison VRx2.250 has 97.6dB while the VRx4.300 has 103.2dB
> ...


 And what's the ambient noise in a car's interior while driving, 70db? And I love that old chestnut(urban myth) about the guy offering the million dollar bet. So did he keep it in a safety deposit or was it in an escrow account. The one detail I never heard in any version of that story was what kind of speakers he was using. Wilson Benesch, a pair of Maggies? Probably Bose 901's.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

mrgreenjeans71 said:


> And what's the ambient noise in a car's interior while driving, 70db? And I love that old chestnut(urban myth) about the guy offering the million dollar bet. So did he keep it in a safety deposit or was it in an escrow account. The one detail I never heard in any version of that story was what kind of speakers he was using. Wilson Benesch, a pair of Maggies? Probably Bose 901's.


So what was your point again? You implemented so many informations in 1 post  

Kelvin


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## mrgreenjeans71 (Jun 14, 2010)

subwoofery said:


> So what was your point again? You implemented so many informations in 1 post
> 
> Kelvin


 Sorry, it was late and maybe my comment wasn't that important. My point was that you'll never hear the difference in the noise floor under normal driving conditions. I was goaded into agreeing with you about amps sounding different. Even under the assault of driving ambient noise, I still like the way a good amp controls my speakers and the warmth they can deliver to vocals, over cheaper brands/designs.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

mrgreenjeans71 said:


> Sorry, it was late and maybe my comment wasn't that important. My point was that you'll never hear the difference in the noise floor under normal driving conditions. I was goaded into agreeing with you about amps sounding different. Even under the assault of driving ambient noise, I still like the way a good amp controls my speakers and the warmth they can deliver to vocals, over cheaper brands/designs.


Noise floor is easily heard during driving in a well deadened car. Or were you just comparing between high S/N amps? Then that I might agree with


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## JVD240 (Sep 7, 2009)

Edit: NVM.

Old ass thread.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

mrgreenjeans71 said:


> Sorry, it was late and maybe my comment wasn't that important. My point was that you'll never hear the difference in the noise floor under normal driving conditions. I was goaded into agreeing with you about amps sounding different. Even under the assault of driving ambient noise, I still like the way a good amp controls my speakers and the warmth they can deliver to vocals, over cheaper brands/designs.


I can assure you that you can hear noise floor even under normal driving conditions... Well, maybe in your case you won't since you use "normal" car audio drivers. 
One of my system has horns in them and I can tell you there's a definite difference in noise floor between some amps - even some high end amps can sound noise compared to others... 

Kelvin


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## mrgreenjeans71 (Jun 14, 2010)

subwoofery said:


> So what was your point again? You implemented so many informations in 1 post
> 
> Kelvin


 I implemented so many informations? Is English not your native language? Or did you learn English reading VCR manual orginally written in Japanese? If that's the case, then I understand.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

mrgreenjeans71 said:


> I implemented so many informations? Is English not your native language? Or did you learn English reading VCR manual orginally written in Japanese? If that's the case, then I understand.


 

For your information, it's a big no. 

My native language is french. I live in Tahiti, French Polynesia. 
I speak french, tahitian, chinese (coz I have chinese origin) and some english that I learned @ school and when I studied in Australia. 

Like how you responded, thanks :thumbsup: 

Kelvin 

Edit: if you're looking @ my location, I put Newport Beach for a few reasons but I travel a lot around the world and my primary hotel in Cali is there


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## mrgreenjeans71 (Jun 14, 2010)

subwoofery said:


> For your information, it's a big no.
> 
> My native language is french. I live in Tahiti, French Polynesia.
> I speak french, tahitian, chinese (coz I have chinese origin) and some english that I learned @ school and when I studied in Australia.
> ...


Sorry, written in Chinese then, the syntax errors are so similar


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