# Crown Audio?



## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Crown Audio XLS-2500


I should have probably done my research before I bought it, but somebody had posted one for sale like new with original box, maual, etc on the facebook marketplace with a link to ^^^^ and as soon as I saw it was 2ohm stable I immediately went back and bought it.

I'm just wondering if anybody here has any first hand experience or even opinions about Crown Audio products?

And by all means, please be honest.. if it's flea market **** just say so.

Thanks.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Its a decent amp, i used to have a crown xti 2000, so i am guessing its similar. I needed to buy XLR cables and some kind of line driver thingy if memory serves. It was back in the early 2000's. Google should turn up that add on part part if you need to boost the signal.

This...I think is what i had to buy. Not saying you need it, or if it is even the exact thing i had. Google will be your friend here. 









Amazon.com: ART CLEANBox Pro Dual Channel Level Converter (CLEANBOXPRO) : Musical Instruments


Buy ART CLEANBox Pro Dual Channel Level Converter (CLEANBOXPRO): Converters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Crown has always been a highly regarded brand in Pro Audio. Harman purchased them a while back. They are now kind of being merged with JBL Pro audio. Definitely not flea market crap.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Review and Measurements of Crown XLS 1502 Amp


This is a review and detailed measurements of the Crown XLS 1502 "PA" Power Amplifier. It is on a kind loan from a member who bought it new and drop shipped it to me. It retails for USD $349 including free Prime shipping from Amazon. At that price, it seems like an incredible value. I have...




www.audiosciencereview.com





this is similar to your amp.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> Review and Measurements of Crown XLS 1502 Amp
> 
> 
> This is a review and detailed measurements of the Crown XLS 1502 "PA" Power Amplifier. It is on a kind loan from a member who bought it new and drop shipped it to me. It retails for USD $349 including free Prime shipping from Amazon. At that price, it seems like an incredible value. I have...
> ...


I greatly appreciate the info.. although a more direct comparison would be the XLS-2502 however I imagine the performance difference b/w XLs-1502 referenced in that review and mine will just be the higher output.. and everything else will fall in line with the same spectrum of pros/cons stated in that review.

Although, in his conclusion he stated "Its best use would be as a subwoofer amplifier." which is the only thing it will be used for.. and the fact it's 2ohm stable is a HUGE bonus for me.

However, regarding that converter box you stated that I may end up needing.. what does that actually do? I have those big socket looking plugs on the peavey mixer amps I'm using now, but i don't use them and honestly don't even know what they're for. Although, I see those same plugs on that converter, but I also see standard RCA plugs on both the input side and output side and am just unclear as to why something like that would be necessary? Or why can't I just go RCA from source to RCA input on the amp as you can see from the picture that it does support RCA inputs.










Regardless, thank you for the info and taking the time to find/post the information and review.. I do appreciate it!


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Even tho the one I bought was the older model, considering what the newer model is going for on amazon.. I think I did pretty good for $175! 🤑


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

Crown goes back to the 1940s when the first self amplified reel to reel tape recorder was built to facilitate playback at radio stations. But it wasn't officially known as Crown until the mid 1970s after a warehouse fire and the rebranding to keep from associating with the bankrupt original. 

Through the 80s they built some of the biggest and baddest touring amps on the market. Most of that era was 3-Phase 480V stuff so it could be run off diesel generators at remote sites and locations without sufficient mains. 

They were bought by Harmon in 2003 IIRC and have diversified greatly into numerous lines and types of equipment. Like most manufacturers today they make some really strong stuff and some budget stuff as well. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

I was not aware that they have been around for that long. As for where the one I just bought sits on high end to budget based food chain, I have no idea, as I had never even heard of Crown Audio until today. I will say that by looking at the various models on their website, one thing i have noticed, is that there are relatively few models that are 2ohm stable like the one I have. Of course, that may not be important to 99% of their customer base.. but to me that was the ONLY reason I bought it so quickly without so much as even googling it first.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

Being 2 ohm stable is pretty much a moot point in touring audio since these amps are not like car audio amps where professional amps are 2 ohm stable in stereo and some put out even more wattage at higher impedances where the efficiency is better. Having massive toroidal power supplies with huge capacitance reserves means that they are better equipped to handle complicated impedance loads. 

Without getting into custom built units that can put out 20 Kilowatts into an 8 ohm load this is about the top of the line: "I-Tech 12000HD | Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers" Crown I-Tech 12000HD

Note that this amp puts out maximum wattage into a stereo 2.7 ohm load at 10,800 Watts whereas at 8 ohms mono it's "only" 9,000 Watts. Rather than trying to run really low impedance and losing efficiency and cone control via damping it works better to wire subs in series / parallel combinations to get higher impedances. But of course these are Class I amps whereas yours is a Class D so yours is more parallel at any given impedance. Just keep in mind that it's 2 ohm in stereo, not bridged. 

Also, if you're going to run it WFO remember to keep it well ventilated and on a dedicated circuit.









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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Being 2 ohm stable is pretty much a moot point in touring audio since these amps are not like car audio amps where professional amps are 2 ohm stable in stereo and some put out even more wattage at higher impedances where the efficiency is better. Having massive toroidal power supplies with huge capacitance reserves means that they are better equipped to handle complicated impedance loads.
> 
> Without getting into custom built units that can put out 20 Kilowatts into an 8 ohm load this is about the top of the line: "I-Tech 12000HD | Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers" Crown I-Tech 12000HD
> 
> ...


Yea certainly the one I'm getting won't compare to the $9k model you referenced.. but for $175 I can't complain. However, it will be fed fed a mono input so I won't have to worry about stereo cancellation or any of that kind of stuff. I plan on running a total 4ohm load per channel powering with 2 DVC4 woofers raised to 8ohm/e = 4ohm/channel with a total of 4 woofers running off both channels.

That is.. unless you suggest a better solution.

Either way, thanks for taking the time to reply.. as I always heed the advice from knowledgeable members such as yourself.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

Crown lent some tech to some very cool, fairly rare JBL car amplifiers, the BPX series (pic is not mine). I owned all 3 at one point. Highly efficient and more output at higher impedance.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> Yea certainly the one I'm getting won't compare to the $9k model you referenced.. but for $175 I can't complain. However, it will be fed fed a mono input so I won't have to worry about stereo cancellation or any of that kind of stuff. I plan on running a total 4ohm load per channel powering with 2 DVC4 woofers raised to 8ohm/e = 4ohm/channel with a total of 4 woofers running off both channels.
> 
> That is.. unless you suggest a better solution.
> 
> Either way, thanks for taking the time to reply.. as I always heed the advice from knowledgeable members such as yourself.


Yes, you got a great deal on a quality amp (as long as it wasn't abused in its previous life.) And an amp that can be serviced to maintain its life indefinitely given the small amount you paid in the event that it needs any maintenance. 

The amp puts out the same wattage into 2 ohms dual mono or 4 ohms bridged mono. But with 8 x 4 ohm voice coils you're limited to 2 ohms bridged mono, dual mono 4 ohm or 8 ohms bridged mono - so we go to Crown's documentation...

Looks like 8 ohms bridged mono and dual 4 ohm mono are equivalent (cause internally they're identical) and 2 ohms bridged mono is not supported - so you are correct.









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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Yes, you got a great deal on a quality amp (as long as it wasn't abused in its previous life.) And an amp that can be serviced to maintain its life indefinitely given the small amount you paid in the event that it needs any maintenance.
> 
> The amp puts out the same wattage into 2 ohms dual mono or 4 ohms bridged mono. But with 8 x 4 ohm voice coils you're limited to 2 ohms bridged mono, dual mono 4 ohm or 8 ohms bridged mono - so we go to Crown's documentation...
> 
> ...


I appreciate the reply as now I now it was money well spent. It looked like it was in flawless condition and it's coming in the original box with manual, etc. He told me he used to power 2 full range 8ohm 15" full range towers for his home theater.

Let me ask you this, I know that bridged usually means running L+ Ch1 and R- Ch2 in to +/- on the woofer.. but what does the "Dual" stand for?


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

mikey7182 said:


> Crown lent some tech to some very cool, fairly rare JBL car amplifiers, the BPX series (pic is not mine). I owned all 3 at one point. Highly efficient and more output at higher impedance.
> View attachment 293517


That looks real nice! But WTF kind of woofers are those?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> I appreciate the reply as now I now it was money well spent. It looked like it was in flawless condition and it's coming in the original box with manual, etc. He told me he used to power 2 full range 8ohm 15" full range towers for his home theater.
> 
> Let me ask you this, I know that bridged usually means running L+ Ch1 and R- Ch2 in to +/- on the woofer.. but what does the "Dual" stand for?


Its a 2 channel amp. Dual is 2 channels, and Bridged is 1channel.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> Its a 2 channel amp. Dual is 2 channels, and Bridged is 1channel.


That's what I was assuming. So if the amp can handle a 2ohm load on each channel.. why would it not be able to support a bridged 2ohm output?

_EDIT_ - I mean like 2x4ohm - 2ohm bridged.. not 2x2ohm as that would 1ohm bridged.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

BJG said:


> That looks real nice! But WTF kind of woofers are those?


JBL W1xGTi (most likely 12s I think). I’ve got a pair of the 10s and picking up a pair of the 15s later this week. 😎


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> That's what I was assuming. So if the amp can handle a 2ohm load on each channel.. why would it not be able to support a bridged 2ohm output?
> 
> _EDIT_ - I mean like 2x4ohm - 2ohm bridged.. not 2x2ohm as that would 1ohm bridged.


No - Dual 2 Ohm and Bridged 4 Ohm are the same load to the amp. Dual 4 Ohm and Bridged 8 Ohm are the same. Your doing the math backwards. In order to be 2 Ohm stable Bridged it would have to support 1 Ohm Dual. 

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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> No - Dual 2 Ohm and Bridged 4 Ohm are the same load to the amp. Dual 4 Ohm and Bridged 8 Ohm are the same. Your doing the math backwards. In order to be 2 Ohm stable Bridged it would have to support 1 Ohm Dual.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Ok.. now I'm confused. Lets just say I have 2 SVC 4ohm woofers in one box that would be total 2ohm load to one channel of the amp, correct? And if so, why would I not be able to run that same 2ohm box bridged.. given that each channel supports a 2ohm load?


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> Ok.. now I'm confused. Lets just say I have 2 SVC 4ohm woofers in one box that would be total 2ohm load to one channel of the amp, correct? And if so, why would I not be able to run that same 2ohm box bridged.. given that each channel supports a 2ohm load?


When you bridge an amp you're combining the output rails from each channel into one combined output device so it halves the connected impedance to each rail. So that 2 ohm Bridged is actually dual 1 ohm mono internally. 

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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> When you bridge an amp you're combining the output rails from each channel into one combined output device so it halves the connected impedance to each rail. So that 2 ohm Bridged is actually dual 1 ohm mono internally.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I did not know that bridging the amp lowers the impedance of the amp internally.. Thank you for the clarification.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> I did not know that bridging the amp lowers the impedance of the amp internally.. Thank you for the clarification.


That's really an oversimplification but mathematically is correct. Its also the reason that some amps can't be bridged. Whether it's due to topology (single ended vs differential) or chipset. Bridging doubles the output voltage which gives 4x the current (same as dividing the impedance by 2) and some chipsets can't source that much current. (Why they refer to them as "stable" - the ability to source enough current at the given output impedance.)

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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> That's really an oversimplification but mathematically is correct. Its also the reason that some amps can't be bridged. Whether it's due to topology (single ended vs differential) or chipset. Bridging doubles the output voltage which gives 4x the current (same as dividing the impedance by 2) and some chipsets can't source that much current. (Why they refer to them as "stable" - the ability to source enough current at the given output impedance.)
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I did not know that bridging doubled the output voltage the same way lowering the impedance does, which was why I was confused as to if the amplifier is stable at a 2ohm load per channel why it could not handle a single 2ohm load bridged.. but now I understand.

Thanks again for the informative reply!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

daloudin said:


> Crown goes back to the 1940s when the first self amplified reel to reel tape recorder was built to facilitate playback at radio stations. But it wasn't officially known as Crown until the mid 1970s after a warehouse fire and the rebranding to keep from associating with the bankrupt original.
> 
> Through the 80s they built some of the biggest and baddest touring amps on the market. Most of that era was 3-Phase 480V stuff so it could be run off diesel generators at remote sites and locations without sufficient mains.
> 
> ...


Their high end pro sound lines are some of the best. But then they have their budget lineup that is similar to Behringer. Something to fit every need and budget...


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Ge0 said:


> Their high end pro sound lines are some of the best. But then they have their budget lineup that is similar to Behringer. Something to fit every need and budget...


I realize I don't have the highest end model they make, and I'm fine with that as it will only be used to power subwoofers.. my question is still I need line level booster? I've read the manual and nowhere did it state that any other equipment was needed.. but other sites say it's necessary.... do you know if I need to purchase one of those as well?

I'm referring to the gadget that @miniSQ posted earlier in this thread..

If anyone has the answer to that.. please let me know.

Thanks.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Crown is legit. They're one of the bigger names in pro audio and have a great reputation. You'll even see the midrange stuff in some nicer home setups.

And they tend to run underrated


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

BJG said:


> I realize I don't have the highest end model they make, and I'm fine with that as it will only be used to power subwoofers.. my question is still I need line level booster? I've read the manual and nowhere did it state that any other equipment was needed.. but other sites say it's necessary.... do you know if I need to purchase one of those as well?
> 
> I'm referring to the gadget that @miniSQ posted earlier in this thread..
> 
> ...


No, you don't need that. Your amp receives both XLR (balanced) and RCA inputs.

Many pro audio amps only take XLR inputs. In that case you would have needed an adapter.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

Ge0 said:


> No, you don't need that. Your amp receives both XLR (balanced) and RCA inputs.
> 
> Many pro audio amps only take XLR inputs. In that case you would have needed an adapter.


You won't have any problem - in fact you could probably drive it to full volume with the headphone output on your phone:









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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> You won't have any problem - in fact you could probably drive it to full volume with the headphone output on your phone:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My phone is my source unit 99% of the time.. so that is exactly what I was hoping to hear!

Thanks again!


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## nhtunes (Jul 31, 2016)

miniSQ said:


> Review and Measurements of Crown XLS 1502 Amp
> 
> 
> This is a review and detailed measurements of the Crown XLS 1502 "PA" Power Amplifier. It is on a kind loan from a member who bought it new and drop shipped it to me. It retails for USD $349 including free Prime shipping from Amazon. At that price, it seems like an incredible value. I have...
> ...



I just got one of these a few months ago for the old home stereo. Just what the Dr ordered, along with a sub to help the speakers.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Of course, ****ing samsung had to do away with the 3.5mm aux port on the Note 20 Ultra.. as to why I'll never understand. That being said, I do have a mult-meter and was wondering if there was a way to use that to measure the output voltage on USB-C to 3.5mm adapter? I googled cell phone 3.5mm voltage and came up with a lot of results stating it was in the 0.7 range. I certainly don't want to throw good money after bad, but if a line level amplifier is what I need to take full advantage of the Crown amp I just bought.. then I will do it. 

I just want to make sure that I am able to achieve maximum power ouput of the amp using a USB-C to RCA cable.

Thanks again.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> Of course, ****ing samsung had to do away with the 3.5mm aux port on the Note 20 Ultra.. as to why I'll never understand. That being said, I do have a mult-meter and was wondering if there was a way to use that to measure the output voltage on USB-C to 3.5mm adapter? I googled cell phone 3.5mm voltage and came up with a lot of results stating it was in the 0.7 range. I certainly don't want to throw good money after bad, but if a line level amplifier is what I need to take full advantage of the Crown amp I just bought.. then I will do it.
> 
> I just want to make sure that I am able to achieve maximum power ouput of the amp using a USB-C to RCA cable.
> 
> Thanks again.


Play a 60Hz sine wave and measure voltage with the meter. 

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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Play a 60Hz sine wave and measure voltage with the meter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I will do that, and please excuse my ignorance.. but how do I do it? Set it to DC - Volts - touch red tip to 3.5mm and ground to what? As in like just literally go out into the garage and touch the ground to the concrete?


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> I will do that, and please excuse my ignorance.. but how do I do it? Set it to DC - Volts - touch red tip to 3.5mm and ground to what? As in like just literally go out into the garage and touch the ground to the concrete?


Red to Tip and Black to Sleeve on 3.5mm or get a 3.5 > RCA cable and test center pin to outer ring.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Red to Tip and Black to Sleeve on 3.5mm or get a 3.5 > RCA cable and test center pin to outer ring.
> View attachment 293692


.006v / 7.63mv.. does that make any sense to you?

Once again, I appreciate the help!


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> .006v / 7.63mv.. does that make any sense to you?
> 
> Once again, I appreciate the help!


Sorry - AC volts

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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

I'm trying to understand the project you're working on. You stated you are running a sub with this amp directly from your phone. Are you going into a pre-amp or receiver. How are you crossing the signal to get low frequencies to this amp? Depending on your goals you may be able to use other products besides a line driver. 
I have tons of experience with those amps! We've used dozens of the XLS models to power landscape audio subwoofers. Only time we've hurt them is with direct short. Like daloudin said the input sensitivity is high so these can easily be pushed into clipping.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

CCole said:


> I have tons of experience with those amps! We've used dozens of the XLS models to power landscape audio subwoofers.


Then you're also obviously aware that they have built in crossovers right? 










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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

daloudin said:


> Then you're also obviously aware that they have built in crossovers right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Completely. Just wondering how he’s running the highs and sub amp from a 3.5mm. These amps have a 1/4” output as well but it sounded like wasn’t to familiar with TSR connections. Possibly a y-splitter or other device pre amplifier. Trying to understand the big picture.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Sorry - AC volts
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


AC Volts: .9 - .115. I'm not sure I'm getting a good enough ground..


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

CCole said:


> I'm trying to understand the project you're working on. You stated you are running a sub with this amp directly from your phone. Are you going into a pre-amp or receiver. How are you crossing the signal to get low frequencies to this amp? Depending on your goals you may be able to use other products besides a line driver.
> I have tons of experience with those amps! We've used dozens of the XLS models to power landscape audio subwoofers. Only time we've hurt them is with direct short. Like daloudin said the input sensitivity is high so these can easily be pushed into clipping.


I currently have a car audio (I forget the brand/model off the top of my head) electronic crossover (powered by a 12v 1a trickle charger) with the LPF set at 50hz which I run a mono signal into.. and then I pigtail off the back of that into the 2 peavey 4 channel mixer amps I currently use. 

I start with the male 3.5mm to headphone output on my Sony TV (which I can select headphones, home theater, subwoofer - and I use HT) that Ys into to 2 female. From each side of that I have a 1 male to 4 female adapters which I connect everything else into. From there I use 3.5mm to rca adapters where necessary, or just go 3.5mm to 3.5mm when possible (sound bars, etc).

The reason why I do it this way is for convenience, because whatever input it receives it will output to all other connections. So if I'm watching TV, the TV plays through everything.. If I hook up my phone, likewise, the phone plays through everything else that's connected.

Does that give you a better picture.. or are you still unclear?


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

CCole said:


> Completely. Just wondering how he’s running the highs and sub amp from a 3.5mm. These amps have a 1/4” output as well but it sounded like wasn’t to familiar with TSR connections. Possibly a y-splitter or other device pre amplifier. Trying to understand the big picture.


I also have 1/4 input only on the peavey amps, which I use a 1/4-3.5mm adapter, and on the back I bought 1/4 to speaker wire adapters as pictured below. I only connect the L+ and ground on each channel with nothing connected to the R+ on either side.










However, would you please explain the difference between balanced and unbalanced when it comes to the 1/4 plugs? I have no idea what that refers to..

Thanks!


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

0.9 Vrms will drive the XLS to about 65% based on the 1.4 Vrms spec for full output. Now with that being said this is a purely theoretical exercise since music is nowhere near a continuous sine wave and a DMM can't react fast enough to measure musical peaks. Musical peaks will likely be higher than the 0.9 Vrms signal you measured. 

All of that to say that you've got enough signal to get started and see how it works. AND if necessary you can still use the Peavey mixer amps as a preamp/mixer and run the monitor output or tape output or any non powered output to the Crown. 

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## jv92red (Nov 17, 2018)

Just as a FYI Crown XLS amps have selectable input options of 1.4Vrms and .775Vrms


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> However, would you please explain the difference between balanced and unbalanced when it comes to the 1/4 plugs? I have no idea what that refers to..
> 
> Thanks!


Audio signals have a +/- designation that can be transmitted on 2 conductors. This basic wiring (like speaker wire) is susceptible to Noise when the signal is "line level" since the voltage level is so low. This is an unbalanced connection. 

Balanced connections, wires, etc. have a third connection at each end that's a "shield" to give the device on each end a reference to ground. Its also the reason you can get ground loops and 60hz hum when connecting a bunch of different instruments, mics and equipment in professional stage or studio use. Not every piece of equipment maintains the chassis ground throughout (guitars connected via direct boxes are a prime offender) the same way so they have a "ground lift" switch to break the connection to ground and prevent the loop.

1/4" or 3.5mm plugs can have: 
Tip and Sleeve (2) or mono
Tip, Ring and Sleeve (3) mono balanced or stereo unbalanced or tip send, Ring return for mono fx
Tip, Ring 1, Ring 2 and Sleeve (4) which can be Stereo unbalanced with microphone (think iPhone earbuds), or stereo balanced, etc.

Hope that wasn't too confusing...

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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Audio signals have a +/- designation that can be transmitted on 2 conductors. This basic wiring (like speaker wire) is susceptible to Noise when the signal is "line level" since the voltage level is so low. This is an unbalanced connection.
> 
> Balanced connections, wires, etc. have a third connection at each end that's a "shield" to give the device on each end a reference to ground. Its also the reason you can get ground loops and 60hz hum when connecting a bunch of different instruments, mics and equipment in professional stage or studio use. Not every piece of equipment maintains the chassis ground throughout (guitars connected via direct boxes are a prime offender) the same way so they have a "ground lift" switch to break the connection to ground and prevent the loop.
> 
> ...


Once again.. you blow me away with your knowledge! As what you stated is what I've gathered from reading the manual about the differences between plugging the 1/4 plugs part of the way vs all the way! If only I could have everything you know in a PDF format so I didn't have to keep on asking dumbass questions! LOL

Nevertheless, I thank you once again for the informative reply!


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Well here it is! Problem is, it came with literally a 2ft 3 prong power cord that won't even reach from my rack to the floor.. I've got a blaze orange 100ft extension cord but that's the last thing i need stuffed behind my TV stand with all the other gazillion cords running here and there and everywhere. On a good note, he could've sold it as brand new because there isn't so much as a fingerprint on it and it does power up.. but I'll have to go to home depot and get an extension cord before I can hook it up.

I'll post back and let you know how it goes, as I'm sure I'll have some questions..


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

The short cord is standard for use in rack mount installation where there is a power distribution/power filtering setup like a Furman at the top of the rack. 

"Furman M-8x2 8 Outlet Power Conditioner | Sweetwater" Furman M-8x2 8 Outlet Power Conditioner

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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> The short cord is standard for use in rack mount installation where there is a power distribution/power filtering setup like a Furman at the top of the rack.
> 
> "Furman M-8x2 8 Outlet Power Conditioner | Sweetwater" Furman M-8x2 8 Outlet Power Conditioner
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Ok.. I've got a problem. I plugged it in RCA and am running a 2ohm load on just one channel to make sure it works.. and it does but the volume is sooooo low that I have to literally push against cone just to make sure it's actively moving. Could this be a result of my input voltage being too low? Or any other suggestions?

Thanks.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> Ok.. I've got a problem. I plugged it in RCA and am running a 2ohm load on just one channel to make sure it works.. and it does but the volume is sooooo low that I have to literally push against cone just to make sure it's actively moving. Could this be a result of my input voltage being too low? Or any other suggestions?
> 
> Thanks.


Yup that is most likely what its from. Did you research using pro amps in a home system, and the Art Cleanpath ( or whatever its called, its been 20 years LOL)?


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> Yup that is most likely what its from. Did you research using pro amps in a home system, and the Art Cleanpath ( or whatever its called, its been 20 years LOL)?


Yea you pretty much nailed it from the get go, as I do believe my input voltage is the problem. So using RCA as my source, as I don't have any of big ****ing plugs or whatever they are.. can you recommend a reasonable solution?

I've been googling and came across this calculator that I think might help me solve the problem, but am not sure. I am absolutely willing to spend the money on whatever it is so long as it's guaranteed to solve my problem.

Once again, I appreciate any input you may suggest..

Thanks!


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> Yea you pretty much nailed it from the get go, as I do believe my input voltage is the problem. So using RCA as my source, as I don't have any of big ****ing plugs or whatever they are.. can you recommend a reasonable solution?
> 
> I've been googling and came across this calculator that I think might help me solve the problem, but am not sure. I am absolutely willing to spend the money on whatever it is so long as it's guaranteed to solve my problem.
> 
> ...


They are called XLR cables, and you should be using them. If you have a unique situation. Reach out to the guys at Blue Jeans cable regarding possible solutions. They know thier **** when it comes to custom XLR cables.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> Ok.. I've got a problem. I plugged it in RCA and am running a 2ohm load on just one channel to make sure it works.. and it does but the volume is sooooo low that I have to literally push against cone just to make sure it's actively moving. Could this be a result of my input voltage being too low? Or any other suggestions?
> 
> Thanks.


Just to make sure I'm gonna ask what might be silly questions but since you haven't used one before and it's used I'm gonna ask.

Did you turn both front panel knobs up to 10?

Did you confirm that it's at factory default settings? 

Stereo (not Bridged)
No crossovers enabled
Limiters Off
Input Sensitivity on High









Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Please feel free to ask any/all dummby questions you can possibly think of because I am totally lost.. I promise you that no offense will be taken!

Stereo - Yes, also tried Y as well.. but not bridged because I was only using one channel. However I initially had a 4ohm load on one channel and a 2ohm load on the other and thought that might have been the problem.. so I disconnected the channel with the 4ohm load and it made no difference.

Crossovers - Yes, tried all options.

Clip Limiters - Yes tried both on and off.

INPUT SENSITIVITY - NO! How do I get to that setting? It made no mention of it in the manual whatsoever, nor did I see any option for it while cycling through the menu on the amp.

In addition, not knowing what else to do, I even tried feeding the 4 RCA cables (2 red / 2 white) in to Y adapters, with red to red and white to white on each channel thinking it may possibly double my input voltage.. but no luck there whatsoever.

That being said when, no matter how I connected the inputs the green signal lights on the amp always lit up.. and I did get some output but even with everything else shut off it was so quiet I actually had to push against the cone to make sure I wasn't just imagining it.

The input sensitivity is probably the issue.. I just don't know how if it even has the option, or how to get to it if it does. Like I said, all the other options you mentioned were in the manual.. but not that one.

However, in the "Features" section of the manual it explicitly states: "XLR, 1/4, RCA inputs ensure compatibility with ANY source".

I simply cannot believe this amp is damaged or anything else, as it even smelled new when I pulled it out of the box.. but I just don't know what else to do.

Below is a pic of the cable I initially used which I know for a fact does work fine, as I tested it on another amp just to make sure. It is also my preferred way to connect as then it will be mono regardless of the settings on the amp.










Once again, thank you so much for the help!

_EDIT_ - I also tried going from "tape out" from the PeaVey to input on the Crown using a 1/4 cable.. but there again no luck.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> They are called XLR cables, and you should be using them. If you have a unique situation. Reach out to the guys at Blue Jeans cable regarding possible solutions. They know thier **** when it comes to custom XLR cables.


Are you suggesting I just email them and explain my situation, or just try to find some XLR cables? The manual makes no mention whatsoever of any limitations regarding the use of standard RCA cables over XLR or 1/4 plugs.. as a matter of fact, it states the flexibility of being able to use the different input sources as a "Feature" of the amp.

However, if you think that's where the problem lies.. I will look into it.

Thanks.


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

You’re right on with the solution. We used a Clean Box Pro to increase the signal level depending on source/preamp combo. I’m using an audio control overdrive in my work vehicle that might be available locally. Sorry I didn’t mention this earlier. You will hear and see an immediate difference. Either of these devices will set you back a minimum of $50-100. I see older flagship AVR’s sell pretty cheap that have individual gain matching control. Usually they’ll boost the signal by .5v+/- which should be enough. Just a thought. 
If you still need a long IEC cable(3 prong power cord) shoot me a DM with length and address. I’ll throw one in the mail tomorrow AM as long as you’re not in Ethiopia.


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

BJG said:


> INPUT SENSITIVITY - NO! How do I get to that setting? It made no mention of it in the manual whatsoever, nor did I see any option for it while cycling through the menu on the amp.


You have a 1500, it does NOT have the ability to change the input sensitivity. The folks telling you to adjust that are confusing your amp with the 1502.

Your low volume issue is from having a low signal level, just using a 3.5mm to XLR cable will NOT fix that. The Cleanbox Pro will solve you problem, as will just about any passive DI box. A DI box is SUPER common in the live event world, the most common is by Radial. If you want the fix today, just hop down to your local Guitar Center and pickup a passive DI, though that costs more than ordering one from Amazon. Do not buy an active DI box unless it has it's own external power supply. You can find DI boxes with all sorts of inputs, including RCA and 3.5mm

I think the home audio/theater folks just cling on to the name of the "Cleanbox" because it sounds like an audiophile name.

When you get your DI box, get your XLR cables, these are a commodity part in the pro world and are pretty inexpensive.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

CCole said:


> You’re right on with the solution. We used a Clean Box Pro to increase the signal level depending on source/preamp combo. I’m using an audio control overdrive in my work vehicle that might be available locally. Sorry I didn’t mention this earlier. You will hear and see an immediate difference. Either of these devices will set you back a minimum of $50-100. I see older flagship AVR’s sell pretty cheap that have individual gain matching control. Usually they’ll boost the signal by .5v+/- which should be enough. Just a thought.
> If you still need a long IEC cable(3 prong power cord) shoot me a DM with length and address. I’ll throw one in the mail tomorrow AM as long as you’re not in Ethiopia.


First of all, I thank you for the offer on the plug! However, I was able to do some rearranging and get it to just barely reach.. and as much as it's a pain in the ****ing ass to try and squeeze my hand back to plug/unplug throughout this trial and error process, once I get it working I'll be good to go. But thank you anyway for the offer.. as I do appreciate it!

CleanBox Pro

I assume that's what you're referencing in your reply. Now listen, I'm not opposed to spending good money on the good hardware I need. That being said, there's nothing I hate more than throwing good money after bad.. and between the cleanbox you suggested and the cables that @miniSQ suggested I'm looking at spending almost $300 dollars on additional equipment needed to make this $175 amp work properly.

My question is.. will this 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt solve my problem? To be honest, and lets just round up the input voltage I'm currently using to 1v for sake of conversation, given the amount of output sound I get at my current 1v signal.. I'm thinking that a +.5v step up won't do ****, and what I really need is something more like a +500-1000v step up in order to make this thing match anywhere near the RMS output wattage. It's not like I'm complaining that I'm getting only 6-700w from my 1v signal when I should be getting 1200w.. I'm complaining that I'm currently getting 1-2w output at best.

Again, I'm not afraid to invest in whatever I need to get this thing working properly.. I just have a hard time believing that stepping up +.5v will solve my problem.

Nevertheless, If I had the solution this thread would already be headed to the archives.. but obviously I don't which is why I'm still seeking any help I can get and do appreciate the reply... but are you sure this will solve my problem? I currently have it saved in my cart on Amazon.. but just want to be sure before I pull the trigger and order it.

Thanks again,
Ben


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

LumbermanSVO said:


> You have a 1500, it does NOT have the ability to change the input sensitivity. The folks telling you to adjust that are confusing your amp with the 1502.
> 
> Your low volume issue is from having a low signal level, just using a 3.5mm to XLR cable will NOT fix that. The Cleanbox Pro will solve you problem, as will just about any passive DI box. A DI box is SUPER common in the live event world, the most common is by Radial. If you want the fix today, just hop down to your local Guitar Center and pickup a passive DI, though that costs more than ordering one from Amazon. Do not buy an active DI box unless it has it's own external power supply. You can find DI boxes with all sorts of inputs, including RCA and 3.5mm
> 
> ...


I don't think I even have a local guitar store.. but what does DI stand for, and would you please recommend one that does support both 3.5mm and RCA?

Thank you for your reply!

_EDIT_ - My hesitance stems from the fact that nowhere in the manual nor on the Crown Audio website does it state that ANY other hardware, etc, is needed for proper operation.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> First of all, I thank you for the offer on the plug! However, I was able to do some rearranging and get it to just barely reach.. and as much as it's a pain in the ****ing ass to try and squeeze my hand back to plug/unplug throughout this trial and error process, once I get it working I'll be good to go. But thank you anyway for the offer.. as I do appreciate it!
> 
> CleanBox Pro
> 
> ...


The cleanbox is $69. I don't think XLR cables are more than $50 max.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> The cleanbox is $69. I don't think XLR cables are more than $50 max.


The one I saw was $75.. would you please post a link to the one for $69? I could care less about the $6.. I just want to make sure I'm getting the right one.

Thanks again!
Ben

_EDIT_ - or what about this one for $109: CleanBox Pro w/XLR cables


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

BJG said:


> I don't think I even have a local guitar store.. but what does DI stand for, and would you please recommend one that does support both 3.5mm and RCA?
> 
> Thank you for your reply!
> 
> _EDIT_ - My hesitance stems from the fact that nowhere in the manual nor on the Crown Audio website does it state that ANY other hardware, etc, is needed for proper operation.


DI info:








DI unit







en.wikipedia.org





The manual doesn't mention a DI box because it assumes the amp will be connected directly to the output of pro audio gear, pro audio signal is much higher than consumer audio signal: Understanding Signal Levels in Audio Gear | Sweetwater


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

LumbermanSVO said:


> DI info:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very good info.. Thank you!










But why do you recommend passive over active?

Thanks again,
Ben


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

Your amp is not capable of delivering phantom power. An active DI requires a power source, most of the time that power source is phantom power: Phantom power

If the Cleanbox is active and has external power, then yay!


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> Please feel free to ask any/all dummby questions you can possibly think of because I am totally lost.. I promise you that no offense will be taken!
> 
> Stereo - Yes, also tried Y as well.. but not bridged because I was only using one channel. However I initially had a 4ohm load on one channel and a 2ohm load on the other and thought that might have been the problem.. so I disconnected the channel with the 4ohm load and it made no difference.
> 
> ...


Apologies on the input sensitivity - that is indeed on the XLS-2502 model. 

Which Peavey powered mixer do you have?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

I understand and agree with your concerns. 
Based of the information and troubleshooting it sounds very likely that a clean sweep will fix your issue. 
I believe there are a couple products that do the same thing as the clean sweep that cost $35-40 and don’t require xlr’s. If I recall the part is something like lgbt or lg-1. I’ll take a look and post shortly. These devices tend to boost the line level by 3-4volts. They’re just very low powered amplifiers. 
Sometime mixers can increase the signal level so you might have a solution.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

2 x PeaVey XM4s.. nothing high end by any means, but they beat the ever living **** out of 4 x 12s to the point that with the input gain set at 50% @ 0 DB gain I am scared to turn the master volume up to anything more that 1/4 max.

_EDIT_ - I stand by nothing high end, but I paid for 2 XM4's + 2x2x12" MTX towers all for $50.. and I certainly have no regrets!


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> 2 x PeaVey XM4s.. nothing high end by any means, but they beat the ever living **** out of 4 x 12s to the point that with the input gain set at 50% @ 0 DB gain I am scared to turn the master volume up to anything more that 1/4 max.


Skip the crossover for now. 

Take your phone or whatever source you have and connect to channel 1 as Left and channel 2 as Right. 

Run a 1/4 mono to dual 1/4 (Y adapter) from the Pre Amp Out on the XM4 to the XLS 2500 L&R input. 

Then you can use the gain on each channel to match levels and the Preamp in the Peavey will do the voltage matching necessary to drive the Crown.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

I was close. When we’re looking at specs the manufacturers use db gain instead of voltage gain. The Art Clean sweep can boost 21db and the lesbian one boosts 12 db. Based on a .5v signal the 12 db of gain will get you to 1.9 v so you will be fine with the cheaper solution. Line Level Gain Boost

Before I’m comfortable saying 100% I’d like to see you feed the amp with a higher signal level which the Peavy mixer may do. What audio sources do you have laying around to try?(cd player, cable box, pc with audio card) something with slightly more output so we can verify the amp outputs slightly more.


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

You guys beat me to it.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Skip the crossover for now.
> 
> Take your phone or whatever source you have and connect to channel 1 as Left and channel 2 as Right.
> 
> ...


I don't have a 1/4 y splitter.. if you think this y adapter will solve my problems i'll order it tonight! Like i said, I'm not afraid of throwing good money after good... I just don't like throwing good money after bad. And I think we all can agree on that.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

I've already got 2 Cleanbox pros sitting in my cart at amazon.. a 1/4 y adapter would be pocket change. I just need a consensus as to what to get.. and I promise you i WILL get it!


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

I’d go with the y-adapt through your Peavy. Signal boosted.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

Just use a straight 1/4 cable from Peavey to Crown on one channel for proof of concept. Then switch channels on the Crown to test both sides. Then you'll know it works and then it's simply up to you to decide if you want to use the Peavey as a preamp from now on (Y- cable) or a line driver like the Cleanbox.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Ok. I know everybody who has replied to this thread has more knowledge and experience than I do, which i highly respect, when it comes this stuff..so I've got 1/4 Y cables on the way. Hopefully that'll solve the problem..


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

You know what.. **** it! As much I hate doing this, but when all else fails.. I'll just start throwing money at!


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

I bought everything that everybody suggested in the previous replies.. which includes 2 1/4 Y cables, a CleanBox Pro and 2 Male to Female XLR cables. Now what the hell do I do with them!? 

Thanks!


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

__





The ART Cleanbox - why you might need one, and how to modify it for subwoofer usage.


How to modify and connect the ART Cleanbox for use with subwoofers



www.subwoofer-builder.com


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link! From what I understand I connect to the input via RCA cables, but have several options as far as output goes.. what do you recommend?


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Well ****.. I have no option to go XLR to RCA. So this thing was just a total waste of money if intended use is for subwoofers.. or am I missing something?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> View attachment 294143
> 
> 
> Well ****.. I have no option to go XLR to RCA. So this thing was just a total waste of money if intended use is for subwoofers.. or am I missing something?


That was refering to a much older model. I used it with no issues. Hook it up and give it a spin.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> That was refering to a much older model. I used it with no issues. Hook it up and give it a spin.


Ok.. so do you recommend RCA to XLR or just RCA to RCA?


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

Just run rca to rca initially for testing. Going xlr can be helpful when dealing with noise rejection or longer distances but there is a chance it might introduce a hum. Not likely.


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

Accidentally double posted.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Ok. I just went RCA to balanced XLR in bridged mode hooked to one 4ohm woofer just to see if the amp indeed worked, and it seemed to.. but then I had to go run some errands and just got back. So now I'm about to put it through it's paces. The manual is really ****ty.. as it's 4 pages basically explaining the crossover settings and then reprints those same pages in every language known to man.

So now I'm back and trying to figure out what to hook up and how to do it. If anyone is familiar with Crown amps.. is there a benefit coming in RCA vs XLR or vice versa, can I run different impedance loads on each channel or do they have to match, also when they state the stability load at 2 ohms is that per channel or total load to the amplifier?

I realize that listed RMS power at each impedance level will be divided by two unless running in a bridged configuration, and bridged configuration @ 4ohms produces the maximum power.. but that is total impedance load, correct? (meaning I can't run a bridged configuration with two woofers unless they are 8ohm/e, because although it's 2 ohm stable, 2 at 4ohm would lower the bridged impedance to 2ohm, right)

Like I said, I'm not to lazy to read but the manual is for ****, so all these questions are NOT answered or even referenced to in the manual.


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

Without getting too technical there's really no difference between RCA and XLR with what you're planning to do. If you were going to run a real +6db signal from a mixer into the amp then you'd want XLR as the inputs on the amp will accept more signal on the XLR but either will work fine for your application. 

You "should" have the load matched on each channel for thermal stability but you don't have to...

2 ohms/channel or 4 ohms bridged

Anything less in either configuration will probably cause the amp to shut down.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Without getting too technical there's really no difference between RCA and XLR with what you're planning to do. If you were going to run a real +6db signal from a mixer into the amp then you'd want XLR as the inputs on the amp will accept more signal on the XLR but either will work fine for your application.
> 
> You "should" have the load matched on each channel for thermal stability but you don't have to...
> 
> ...


I am currently running stereo (but Cleanbox is fed mono input via y cable so mono output) at 4ohm/channel. Channel 1: 1 - 12D4 + 1 - 15D4 both at 8ohm/e.. Channel 2: 1 - 12 SVC @ 4ohm. However, I've discovered the amp has no problem pushing a different impedance load on each channel, as I started with the 12 D4 on channel 1 and the 12 SVC on channel two and it didn't even flinch.

Having said that, given I'm running a 4ohm load on each channel.. I cannot bridge the two as that would result in a 2ohm load, correct?


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

BJG said:


> I am currently running stereo (but Cleanbox is fed mono input via y cable so mono output) at 4ohm/channel. Channel 1: 1 - 12D4 + 1 - 15D4 both at 8ohm/e.. Channel 2: 1 - 12 SVC @ 4ohm. However, I've discovered the amp has no problem pushing a different impedance load on each channel, as I started with the 12 D4 on channel 1 and the 12 SVC on channel two and it didn't even flinch.
> 
> Having said that, given I'm running a 4ohm load on each channel.. I cannot bridge the two as that would result in a 2ohm load, correct?


Yes - you're technically running dual mono but potato potahto

Correct on the impedance. You can run that combo on one channel but not bridged. Now keep in mind, you own the amp it's yours to do with as you see fit. You'll see plenty of people who run amps below their rated impedance with no problem. I'm not advocating that you run it at 2 ohm bridged but you technically can... between impedance rise and all those voice coils in parallel it would probably work fine and as long as you don't go all frat boy with the volume and keep an eye on the thermals it might work fine. However, you're taking your chances and are solely responsible for any problems that result from doing 2 ohm bridged. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

daloudin said:


> Yes - you're technically running dual mono but potato potahto
> 
> Correct on the impedance. You can run that combo on one channel but not bridged. Now keep in mind, you own the amp it's yours to do with as you see fit. You'll see plenty of people who run amps below their rated impedance with no problem. I'm not advocating that you run it at 2 ohm bridged but you technically can... between impedance rise and all those voice coils in parallel it would probably work fine and as long as you don't go all frat boy with the volume and keep an eye on the thermals it might work fine. However, you're taking your chances and are solely responsible for any problems that result from doing 2 ohm bridged.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Hehehe thank you for that tidbit of information! I certainly cannot promise you that I won't go frat boy LOL.. but can promise you that I understand your warning and exhonorate you from any damage caused.

That being said.. 2 ohm bridged is definitely where I'm headed!


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

You could also play with parallel/series or series/parallel to show the amp an 8ohm load bridged. Daloudin might chime in with the disadvantages. It sounds like you’re tinkering so I wanted to throw that out there. 
Granted you will see no gain from 4ohm stereo.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

CCole said:


> You could also play with parallel/series or series/parallel to show the amp an 8ohm load bridged. Daloudin might chime in with the disadvantages. It sounds like you’re tinkering so I wanted to throw that out there.
> Granted you will see no gain from 4ohm stereo.


That's exactly what I'm doing right now.....


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

CCole said:


> You could also play with parallel/series or series/parallel to show the amp an 8ohm load bridged. Daloudin might chime in with the disadvantages. It sounds like you’re tinkering so I wanted to throw that out there.
> Granted you will see no gain from 4ohm stereo.


Final impedance load is a function of many variables. Most of the big subs that I've used in Pro Audio prefer higher impedance loading cause they're almost always high efficiency, high Q drivers that need the extra voltage for cone control. There's no disadvantage here cause these are car audio subs and the only consideration is maximum power. If the amp were one capable of producing the maximum combined rms wattage of all the subs he's using then running at 8 ohms would be very much preferred as it would be more efficient and much easier on the amp.

With all that being said I always recommend trying different variations of series and parallel combinations to see what works best for the listener. It's especially important with big IB installs where maximum wattage is not always the best for SQ.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Very informative! but SQ.. whats that? I'm SPL to the zipper! 🔊


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Let me ask you this, I have clip protection enabled @4ohm bridged (max rated power from amp).. I can run that thing just absolutely WFO without having to worry about damaging my woofers, correct? Also, I currently have the CleanBox balanced ouput knob set to WFO as well.. is that ok too?

Another thing, I know the proper term is "Series" but by raising the impedance to 8ohm you are essentially shorting one of coils on a DVC woofer. I mean, other than "Series", what else do you call it when run a wire directly from positive to negative on anything?

So my question is that "preferred" option?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

wha


BJG said:


> Let me ask you this, I have clip protection enabled @4ohm bridged (max rated power from amp).. I can run that thing just absolutely WFO without having to worry about damaging my woofers, correct? Also, I currently have the CleanBox balanced ouput knob set to WFO as well.. is that ok too?
> 
> Another thing, I know the proper term is "Series" but by raising the impedance to 8ohm you are essentially shorting one of coils on a DVC woofer. I mean, other than "Series", what else do you call it when run a wire directly from positive to negative on anything?
> 
> So my question is that "preferred" option?





BJG said:


> Let me ask you this, I have clip protection enabled @4ohm bridged (max rated power from amp).. I can run that thing just absolutely WFO without having to worry about damaging my woofers, correct? Also, I currently have the CleanBox balanced ouput knob set to WFO as well.. is that ok too?
> 
> Another thing, I know the proper term is "Series" but by raising the impedance to 8ohm you are essentially shorting one of coils on a DVC woofer. I mean, other than "Series", what else do you call it when run a wire directly from positive to negative on anything?
> 
> So my question is that "preferred" option?


What is your subwoofer situation? How many subs and are they all identical? DV2 or DV4? I have never looked at it as shorting one of the coils. Because you are not actually doing that. I would think truly shorting one VC would be connecting the + to the - of one coil and running the other coil to the amp. Series wiring you are connecting the + of 1 coil to the - of the other coil, leaving you a + and a - to connect to the amp.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> wha
> 
> 
> What is your subwoofer situation? How many subs and are they all identical? DV2 or DV4? I have never looked at it as shorting one of the coils. Because you are not actually doing that. I would think truly shorting one VC would be connecting the + to the - of one coil and running the other coil to the amp. Series wiring you are connecting the + of 1 coil to the - of the other coil, leaving you a + and a - to connect to the amp.


10 subs in total. 4 x 10 ACTIVE Sony SACS9s, 4 x 12" MTX (PeaVey), 1 x 15" Kicker Comp R D4, 1 x 12" Quantum D4 (Crown).. also have 2 x JL 12W6V3D4 and 1 x JBL 12" SVC not hooked up. 

I was cleaning out the garage last weekend and WinISD told me the best enclosure for a 12" Sony Xplode was the garbage can.. and in there it went bandpass box and all.










And this is exactly how I have both D4s raised to 8ohm that are currently hooked up to the Crown @ 4ohm bridged. And you can call it a "Series" or whatever you want.. but that my friend is a straight up direct short.


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

I don’t know how well the clip limiter works. As long as the yellow and red clip indicators are now consistently lighting up you should be fine. 
Most electrical circuits use series wiring far mor than parallel. Early on I was taught to look at voltage like water flowing. When building a circuit the water flows from + to - As long as you don’t create a loop you’re not shorting. This is a very rudimentary explanation.


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

How does the new setup sound?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> 10 subs in total. 4 x 10 ACTIVE Sony SACS9s, 4 x 12" MTX (PeaVey), 1 x 15" Kicker Comp R D4, 1 x 12" Quantum D4 (Crown).. also have 2 x JL 12W6V3D4 and 1 x JBL 12" SVC not hooked up.
> 
> I was cleaning out the garage last weekend and WinISD told me the best enclosure for a 12" Sony Xplode was the garbage can.. and in there it went bandpass box and all.
> 
> ...


Are you trying to wire all those subs up to the crown amp?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

CCole said:


> I don’t know how well the clip limiter works. As long as the yellow and red clip indicators are now consistently lighting up you should be fine.
> Most electrical circuits use series wiring far mor than parallel. Early on I was taught to look at voltage like water flowing. When building a circuit the water flows from + to - As long as you don’t create a loop you’re not shorting. This is a very rudimentary explanation.


I agree, he is not really shorting anything, but words don't matter it seems he has the diagram correct.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> I would think truly shorting one VC would be connecting the + to the - of one coil and running the other coil to the amp.


But I am running + to - on one coil, which is a direct short.. essentially makes it an 8ohm SVC... or am I wrong?

And if so, It certainly wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong.. nor will it be the last!


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

CCole said:


> How does the new setup sound?


Words cannot describe the magic that CleanBox worked on that amp! My GF ordered a set of certain brand of glass bowls (I forget what brand but your wife/GF would probably recognize it, girl thing) that were just shy of $400 and she just received them today. I think spending $400 on a set of glass bowls is just ****ing retarded, she thinks my subwoofers are retarded.. so fair enough.

Well, I dropped back down to 1x15 and 1x12 to run @ 4ohm bridged on the Crown, but still have the other 4 x 10s and 4 x12s hooked up as well.. and when I cranked it up it rattled the walls, floors, house, etc so hard that the vibration caused her new set of glass bowls to walk off the island in the kitchen upstairs and shatter on the marble floor!

She went I don't even know where and hasn't come home yet.. but man she is gonna be pissed! So of course I'm going to have to replace them.. which is fine.

I already know I'm going to end up destroying both that Kicker Comp R and that Quantum with this amp.. but that's ok because they're both flea market woofers anyway.

But to answer your question.. that's how it sounds!!!


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> Are you trying to wire all those subs up to the crown amp?


No. I have been scouring the internet for another Crown amp.. but I have to familiarize myself with the different XLI, CTI, etc models before I get another one. Like I said, I had never even heard of Crown Audio until I bought this one on a whim.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

BJG said:


> But I am running + to - on one coil, which is a direct short.. essentially makes it an 8ohm SVC... or am I wrong?
> 
> And if so, It certainly wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong.. nor will it be the last!


not according to that diagram you posted. If you are not following the diagram then all bets are off.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

This in my opinion would be a dead short.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> This in my opinion would be a dead short.


As usual, you are indeed correct.. the diagram you posted would definitely be a dead short.

And this officially makes it the 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000016th time I've been wrong! LOL 🤐


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Quantum 12"

Kicker 15" Comp R

So the battle of the bargain bin has begun! I am overpowering both.. which one do you think blows first?

Me - Kicker


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

Kicker WTW. Distort the **** out of the signal then max it. One of them will let the smoke out. Check your pm.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Oh believe me.. I am trying my best. I was gone all day yesterday and shut everything off except that Crown amp.. which I left running WFO with 2 Chainz - Codeine Cowboy on repeat and they were both still beating when I got home. But ok.. I'm about to leave now.. and this time I'll disable the clip protection.

$20 Quantum 12" > 15" Comp R.. my prediction!

But after reading your PM.. It's ON!! It's in a massive 6.34CF vented box and I'm going to start by picking up an 8ohm resistor to trick the amp and push all 2400w to it. But I promise you I will NOT stop until I bury your beloved little Kicker in the dirt.. even if I have to spend $10k on more amps to do so!!!

I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL KILL THAT ****ING POS KICKER AND THEN SHIP IT TO YOU FOR FREE ONCE I'M DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

Clip limiter enabled - seized tight, hammered, straight up cooked. So much for it blowing that smoke out of the coils you were telling me about.

*RIP 15" KICKER COMP R!*

@CCole - You want it?


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

BJG said:


> Clip limiter enabled - seized tight, hammered, straight up cooked. So much for it blowing that smoke out of the coils you were telling me about.
> 
> *RIP 15" KICKER COMP R!*
> 
> @CCole - You want it?


I appreciate the offer. I have to much gear laying around. Lmk if you want the FI SSD to play with. It handles 1500 watts pretty well but I have to throttle down anything 2k watts or above. Just so we’re on the same page, I haven’t liked anything kicker has made since the gold logo subs in the early 90’s.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

CCole said:


> Just so we’re on the same page, I haven’t liked anything kicker has made since the gold logo subs in the early 90’s.


Me neither.. it's like 1995 called and wants their Kicker back! LOL That being said, I actually was impressed by how well it hung in there for as long as it did! Let's not forget, I had pulled it out of the box and was throwing 3x MAX RMS power rating at it and it hung in there for almost 3 hours @13hz SINE before I even started to smell the coil overheating.. in hindsight, I wish I would've just backed it off then and held onto it because now I've got to buy another 15".. damn that Jack Daniels. LOL

Having said all of that, I would actually NOT be opposed to replacing that one with another Kicker Comp R because man did that thing just absolutely ****ing SLAM in that massive 6+CF vented box and handled 1200w (1.5 MAX RMS) with ease all day and all night long, not to mention I can snag one for <$100 easy. Hell, I only paid $50 for the woofer, box, and 6x12ft 1/4 plug to mono speaker wire adapters.. just those adapters alone would've cost me almost $100 on Amazon.

I know most people who read this thread are probably thinking that intentionally blowing that woofer was just absolutely ****ing retarded.. and honestly, in hindsight, I would totally agree! As of now, all my dumbass has left is just a big ass box with a 15" ****ing hole in it and all I have laying around are 12s.

I would also be willing to bet that one of my JL 12W6V3D4s would have given up waaaaaaaaay before the Kicker did, but were not even going there. Because regardless of the various personal opinions regarding JL Audio in general, one thing we can all agree on is that JL Audio is certainly proud of their ****.. and that is directly reflected in the price tag!

Oh well, once again.. Jack Daniels + ME = DUMB ****!!!!! 😣

@CCole is that SSD a 15" D4?


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

It’s a D2 model that’s 4 years old so mating it to another might be difficult to find.


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

CCole said:


> It’s a D2 model that’s 4 years old so mating it to another might be difficult to find.


Is it a 15?


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

BJG said:


> Is it a 15?


Yes Sir!


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

CCole said:


> Yes Sir!


Although D4 is what I certainly would prefer for sake of flexibility.. but would you mind posting a direct link to the model you have please? As their website shows several different models in the SSD series.. Thanks!


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## Pawoodster (Mar 12, 2021)

miniSQ said:


> Review and Measurements of Crown XLS 1502 Amp
> 
> 
> This is a review and detailed measurements of the Crown XLS 1502 "PA" Power Amplifier. It is on a kind loan from a member who bought it new and drop shipped it to me. It retails for USD $349 including free Prime shipping from Amazon. At that price, it seems like an incredible value. I have...
> ...


I have this very amp to run my two fronts in a 7.2.4 atmos set-up. It's been flawless so far. This fella's a bit of a fan as well:


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## BJG (Feb 7, 2021)

I have the older XLS-2500 (not 02) model which required the cleanbox pro to operate.. but man that easily ranks very high in my top ten <$200 investments that I have ever made in my life!


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