# Designing my CarPC - Windows 10 with Android VM or Emulator.



## Need4Camaro

So here's what I decided. I want way too much and just one system isn't going to give me everything I desire.. ..so I'll build two in one!

A Windows 10 Car PC capable of running an Android 5.1 VM or Emulator so I can keep my favorite Android Apps such as Waze, Google Maps, Google Now, ect. I would really like to run a 9" LCD but can settle for an 8" if that comes to be necessary. 7" though. I mean, if it comes to the point where the simplicity of just purchasing an e3io unit, slapping in a low profile graphics card into one of the mini pcie slots and loading an Android VM and calling it a day, then I guess I can handle that but 7" will be a pain with Windows Touch Screen. I want the system to perform just as well as my gaming PC at home, I mean.. there is alittle give here

Hardware wise these are the general guidelines I'm attempting to follow...

Mini Mainboard with 2 mini PCIe slots
8 - 16 GB RAM
SSD Hard Drive
2 GB dedicated RAM for graphics, although willing to do integrated shared up to 2 GB. most likely will use a dedicated low profile graphics card.
WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS
AM/FM Module
9" Capacitive Touch LCD (willing to go with 8" if this task becomes too tedious)
Reverse Camera
50x4 Amp

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Software

Windows 10
Android VM
Steam, Cities Skylines, The Crew, Multiple FPS & RPG games
Waze, Google Maps, Pandora, Google Now
Windows RDP for Tablets to connect.

The idea is, I'll likely only use Windows while I'm parked, and Android while I'm driving. That or passengers will use Windows while I'm driving.

The concern I'm running into is especially with Android VM or Emulators. I don't know if any of them can share the same GPS as Windows is receiving so that Waze or Google Maps will work, likewise goes for Microphone and Audio output to the cars speakers.

Any ideas?


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## crackinhedz

You could mirror your android to your PC, using Vysor.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/vysor/gidgenkbbabolejbgbpnhbimgjbffefm

...you can try it on your home PC to see if you like. I have it on mine but rarely use as I have a GPS for it and dont use my phone for much while driving.


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## Need4Camaro

crackinhedz said:


> You could mirror your android to your PC, using Vysor.
> 
> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/vysor/gidgenkbbabolejbgbpnhbimgjbffefm
> 
> ...you can try it on your home PC to see if you like. I have it on mine but rarely use as I have a GPS for it and dont use my phone for much while driving.


Thank you tons for the suggestion and I will definately keep this in mind, for now though I would like the Android OS to literally be apart of the PC.


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## Need4Camaro

Okay, so I am researching and researching and I find the more I research, the more questions I have. I am beginning to obtain a general conscience as to what I am doing, I think anyway.

Let me run a few things by you guys and get your opinion.

#1 All Mini ITX Motherboards given the form factor should fit a Double Din Mini ITX Case such as this one - 2Din in Dash 7" Samsung HDMI Touch Screen Monitor Mini ITX USB SD Raspberry Pi | eBay - right?

#2 Since I'm not looking to overclock, it doesn't really matter what Mother Board I get. The main determining factor for the performance I'm looking for is the CPU and graphics card. Right?

#3 For graphics, my only real options are...
-- I7 with DDR4 for onboard graphics
or
-- I5 with a graphics card.

Are there any other CPU that have good onboard graphics for gaming, if so would I need to use a special motherboard for it?

-- For a Graphics Card on a 2Din Unit, it looks like it would mount right behind the fan, and the fan would be in the way of the HDMI port. Would there be any other way I can install a low profile graphics card in a 2 DIN Case? Maybe the fan could be relocated to the top?

-- What is e3io using for their Harness Port? Inside of the system where is it connecting and how? Basically how does the radio harness connect to the system and where in their audio amplifier? Can I implement one directly into my own system?

-- Maybe I should just let e3io build me a custom PC with a custom case to implement a graphics card?

-- On Android Headunits, is there any way to implement audio and video in? Also what about touch from another device? Maybe I can just build a CarPC, connect it to my Head Unit and let it handle all of my audio and video and retain Windows and Android and the stereo will conver the sound..but then how will I implement touch?


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## Waffle

I would look at the intel integrated graphics performance. At the low resolution that the in dash touch screen monitors use, the onboard graphics can pump out pretty good fps.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## madcowintucson

I tried this...didn't work very well. I have a fast pc and the Android port was they problem and also visor has limitations. Windows 10 tablets are cool and cheap but they only reason I would run that in my car is if I could run dirac live on it for cheap. I ended up with a newsmy Android car radio and just the HDMI out to optical to stream all my music.


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## porscheman

i replaced mine with this.
https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Next-Unit-Computing-NUC5i3RYK/dp/B00S1ISFOQ
much easier to set up. can run 12v straight in.


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## Need4Camaro

Alright so money is really no object. I'm not looking to go CRAZY CRAZY, but I'm not afraid of spending a few extra dollars to get what I'm looking for either.

The main thing thats making my build so complicated is the need for a strong graphics processing unit, either a graphics card or a very good GPU. I have found some good GPU's in the Intel Iris Pro Graphics, seemingly even able to touch stand alone graphics cards in performance. They won't be quite strong enough to handle the heavier settings in modern games, but will still be reliable in low to medium settings in modern games. The other problem I'm running into is actually converting the stuff to something that will fit into a car's wiring Harness. Because of that, I see why e3io's stuff is so expensive, its because the homework in that arena has already been done. In essence, already fitted to a port which will fit a cars wiring harness. Does anyone have any idea what that device / port is and where I can get one? its the long rectangular white port on their units. The last problem I'm running into, and will be soon testing and GPS functionality on an Android Virtual Machine or Emulator. I haven't yet found one that will take Windows actual GPS and update it real-time. Soo with that I'm getting slightly frustrated yet I want this so bad that I don't want to give up. I also realize this is a non-standard build as well.

*PC:*

*Option 1:* 
Purchase a e3io unit and install an Intel Core i7-6970HQ processor sporting the Iris Pro Graphics 580. 

*Advantages: *

Least amount of modification required.
Amp and sound hardware is already there.
Everything else is configured for a car environment.
Will provide a fair to relatively good graphical performance for even modern games on medium settings.

*Disadvantages:*

The Processor retails somewhere in the ballpark of $600 and $700.
Still won't quite be a gaming PC, will be close..but not quite.
More intense games will still be unplayable.
7" Screen on Windows 10 might be a bit cumbersome.

*Option 2:* 
Purchase a e3io unit and modify the case to install a half height low profile graphics card while running a more standard I7 Processor. The Fan would be relocated to the ceiling of the case. A hole would be cut in the side of the case for the Graphics Card fan. 

*Advantages:*

100% of what I am looking for. 
Will be able to handle serious games. I will have no limits.
Cheaper alternative than upgrading the processor.

*Disadvantages:*

Custom fabrication to the case will be necessary
Voided e3io warranty..then again Option 1 will probably void my warranty too...
I will have to figure a way out to handle the heat issues on hot days. Hopefully the fans will be enough.
I will also likely have to introduce a more powerful PSU while still retaining the auto off functionality on ignition off.

*Option 3:* 
Like Option 2 but build it from the ground up with an eBay 2" Din Case.

*Advantages:*

100% of what I am looking for. 
Will be able to handle serious games. I will have no limits.
Wont need to worry about voiding Warranties.
I can build the system for as low as half the cost of a e3io unit.

*Disadvantages:*

I will have to provide my own amp and figure a way out to perform the auto on / auto off feature myself.
Since I will be using my own Amp and PSU, wiring is likely going to be more cumbersome.
Will still need to worry about heat and cooling.

*Option 4: *
Now we're going to try something a bit different. 


Use Android Head Unit for Car Stereo. 5.1 Android Headunit with 2GB RAM Quad Core Processor (yes, they do exist. I sourced a few out..they're just currently not marketed very well.)
Build a STAND ALONE Car PC Mini ITX form factor box and install it in the TRUNK.

Run a Graphics Card and i7 Processor. Install an HDMI to Analog Converter and feed the video and audio into the RCA in ports of the Head Unit. Install a USB touch overlay over the capacitive Android Touchscreen and feed the USB to the PC for touch screen. That or connecting the PC to WiFi and using Windows RDP or Splashtop to control the PC.

Run 4 Gauge Cables from the Battery to a Power Inverter in the trunk and connect to a Power Inverter which will be connects to a UPS and finally to the PC.

This allows me to use Android as my primary OS and allows me to keep the Google Now commands for voice calls. Certainty that Waze and Google Maps will work and so forth. Then I can switch to Windows to play games.

*Advantages:*


Keeping both O.S's as full functional as possible.
No Space Limitations.
More cooling options.
Able to run all of my games.

*Disadvantages:*


More power consumption from the vehicle (I have an High Amp Alternator installed already.)
Unable to use the PC while the Headunit is off.

*LCD:*

*Option 1:* 
Any of the above options and run an 8 or 9" LCD while the unit is stand alone.

*Advantages:*

Will be easy to see what I'm doing.
Easier to use Windows 10.
Better graphical experience.
If I go with Option 4 I can still retain PC functionality even while the vehicle is off.

*Disadvantages:*

Not sure if the Android Virtual Machine will be able to use just any LCD or if it will run into problems.
Custom work to my dash will be necessary, but 9" will fit easily in my dash. It will be difficult to make it look as factory as a Head Unit though.
If I go with option 4, I would need a stand alone Android Head Unit to be custom built and I would still need to worry about screen and touch compatibility.

*Option 2:*
Use the double din unit 7" screen

*Advantages:*

Simple and most refined.

*Disadvantages:*

Hard to use with Windows 10.



Waffle said:


> I would look at the intel integrated graphics performance. At the low resolution that the in dash touch screen monitors use, the onboard graphics can pump out pretty good fps.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I've been looking into the Intel Iris Pro Graphics series and it looks fairly promising. Only minor issue is the CPU that runs them is fairly costly.



madcowintucson said:


> I tried this...didn't work very well. I have a fast pc and the Android port was they problem and also visor has limitations. Windows 10 tablets are cool and cheap but they only reason I would run that in my car is if I could run dirac live on it for cheap. I ended up with a newsmy Android car radio and just the HDMI out to optical to stream all my music.


Can you explain more? What exactly did you try? What was the Android port of which you were talking about? Porting from your phone or what? What do you mean by HDMI out to optical? From your phone to the head unit?



porscheman said:


> i replaced mine with this.
> https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Next-Unit-Computing-NUC5i3RYK/dp/B00S1ISFOQ
> much easier to set up. can run 12v straight in.


How well will the graphics be on that device however? No room for a Graphics card so unless I run a very good i7 processor I don't know if it will perform very well for what I am after. Also how are you running 12v straight in? Are you connected from a power adapter into a cigarette lighter or directly into a Power Inverter connected to your power wires for your radio harness? Also how are you running 12volts when the device seemingly needs 18?


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## porscheman

you can run 12v straight in,
https://communities.intel.com/thread/49219
i chose to use this to make power cycling easier
DCDC-NUC, 6-48V automotiove power supply for NUC, 12V or 19V output
the nuc's are available from power sipping celerons
https://www.amazon.com/Intel-NUC5CP...8&sr=1-30&keywords=nuc&refinements=p_89:Intel
to full blown i7's with the newest irus pro 580
https://www.amazon.com/Intel-NUC-Ki...71&sr=1-2&keywords=nuc&refinements=p_89:Intel


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## Need4Camaro

Where did you install yours in your car? What are the physical dimensions of it and what did you use for a screen and how did you convert your audio and connect everything to power?
Edit: What I should ask more specifically is how did you connect everything to your factory radio harness?


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## porscheman

the nuc i chose is one of the shorter ones, it uses an m2 drive instead of a laptop 2.5", so its like 4x4x2ish. i have an older lilliput in there now, but i just got a capacitive one off amazon to try. a metra harness for power and rca's out of the sound card into my amp.


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## crackinhedz

Android 6.0 VM on Windows 10

[wifi not recognizing at the moment, tracking down a solution. Settings issue or 6.0 bug not sure yet? I've never used VM before.]


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## Need4Camaro

Cool thanks for trying this for me. Can the Android VM browse even though it says Wi-Fi not recognized? Like if you open the browser and go to cnn.com will cnn load? What about Bluetooth? It sounds like you may need a driver for the card Wi-Fi card. Check out XDA forums or Google Android VM Wi-Fi not recognized.


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## Need4Camaro

So I'm coming closer to making a decision.

I am real interested in the Intel NUC NUC6i7KYK. It appears to be small enough to fit inside of my double din radio area. Can I use the DCDC NUC Automotive Power Supply with it?

What I am really wondering, is if it is possible to mount the NUC's motherboard into the Double Din cases? If so thats the route I would most prefer.

--

The other option is building a Mini ITX in a Double Din unit, modify the case to fit the graphics card and relocate the fan... Probably will install multiple fans in this scenerio as I am in deep fear of heat.

--

The final option... Would be to install an Android Headunit running 5.1 or later and then installing a CarPC in the trunk with a graphics card. Then use an App and Program called TwomonAir to wirelessly sync my Android's display to my PC's. Essentially my Andoid touch screen becomes my CarPC's monitor, and I can switch back to Android at will.

Thoughts?


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## Need4Camaro

Well. I can't decide what I want. The problem is, even with the newest i7 iris pro graphics, It still looks like I will need a video card to handle the games I intend on playing. 

I was thinking of the Gigabyte Brix and installing its motherboard into a 2" Din Car PC Case and using the intel i7 CPU / iris graphics and then if that wasn't enough, when external GPU's became more affordable, run a Thunderbolt 3 cable to the back of my car and install a External GPU in my trunk. I heard that people are pleased with the results of Thunderbolt 3 GPU's. Problem is, this route will be fairly expensive and I also don't know if I will be able to install the Brix mother board successfully into the 2" Din Case By-Bytes case.

I was also thinking of installing the unit directly but it will be difficult fabbing a way to control the volume, powering it off and on, and rebooting it physically should the system freeze.

I was also thinking of just toning down to a PICO500 or a LP-175 and use a slightly older generation i7 processor then using a PCIe-1x to PCIe-16x riser card, or something like "The Beast" (real link) - The problem is...#1 I will need an external source of power for the graphics card. #2 I will still be limited to the pcie x1 speeds which will hurt gaming performance and it will still be a fairly involved build. #3 If I use "The Beast" I will have to find a pcie x1 to mini pcie adapter.

Mini ITX is really the best way to go but there's not enough space (measured 8" depth) in my head unit area to fit one inside a double din case... ...unless I use a slim case with a riser to an external GPU mounted ontop of the case with an external LCD and real audio amplifier which I would have to design a rack for.

Lastly... I could throw in a Android 5.1 Headunit with 2GB RAM and then throw a Mini ITX Box with a graphics card in the trunk and use the headunit as my display either through Aux input or using an app that allows you to use your android as a monitor. 

Any input? I could really use some help heh.


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## Waffle

Installing a full computer in the trunk will give you the most flexibility. Get the opus solutions 360w power supply. It will power a monitor and your computer no problem. It also turns amps on and off.

Sent from my LG-VS985 using Tapatalk


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## Manic1!

Another option is to buy a gaming laptop and use that.


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## strohw

Perhaps it would be easier to make a decision if you prioritized what you want most of this setup.


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## porscheman

if your wanting to game, what are you planning on using for a screen? it doesnt take much graphic HP to max out a little 9" screen, and none of the "car" displays are monsters on the refresh rate either.


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## Need4Camaro

Okay..well..after much thinking I think I'm going to step my dreams down, atleast for now.. because it's becoming too complicated trying to figure out how to build a gaming machine in a car.. not that it can't be done..its just.. going to be alittle harder than I'm really ready to undertake at this moment.

Meanwhile..I still need to upgrade my headunit...

I was wondering what if I built an X86 Android Head Unit with an i7 and 8GB of RAM.. I would have a lightning fast Android Headunit with the ability to handle about any app I throw at it like it was nothing right? I have a BIG question on this one. Is it possible at all to grab a hold of one of those Android Fascia's (With the Home, Menu, Back button) to go around the case like the Android Headunits have? If so, where?

Or what if I decided to just build the i7 with 16GB DDR4 and just play my games on low settings and then run Android on a VM for my Android needs such as Waze, ect... 

Which option sounds best?


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## Orion525iT

Need4Camaro said:


> Okay..well..after much thinking I think I'm going to step my dreams down, atleast for now.. because it's becoming too complicated trying to figure out how to build a gaming machine in a car.. not that it can't be done..its just.. going to be alittle harder than I'm really ready to undertake at this moment.
> 
> Meanwhile..I still need to upgrade my headunit...
> 
> I was wondering what if I built an X86 Android Head Unit with an i7 and 8GB of RAM.. I would have a lightning fast Android Headunit with the ability to handle about any app I throw at it like it was nothing right? I have a BIG question on this one. Is it possible at all to grab a hold of one of those Android Fascia's (With the Home, Menu, Back button) to go around the case like the Android Headunits have? If so, where?
> 
> Or what if I decided to just build the i7 with 16GB DDR4 and just play my games on low settings and then run Android on a VM for my Android needs such as Waze, ect...
> 
> Which option sounds best?


Car PCs have continued to be a pain in the ass to sort out, with the major hangups of power supplies and screens. I am still trying a work around with my power supply, but the biggest issue you run into is capacity. You are never going to have the power to run a high end gaming rig without using a "pure" sine wave power inverter with large capacity into a desktop PSU. But "pure" may not be that pure, and noise issues (electrical) can be a real pain to resolve. Some other options included running mutliple isolated DC/DC converters in parallel to get more output, but that does not resolve potential noise issues.

The monitor problem has been helped out a bit recently because of the mass production of high end, small IPS screens and the rise of mini-computers like Raspberry Pi. Even so, these screens would not work well for high-end gaming because the response times of the screens is poor (30-35ms) when compared to desktop screens.

With those major issues in mind, I don't think you need to go crazy with the hardware (again you are likely to run into power supply issues). I am running a Celeron on my Asus board with 16G of DDR3 and the is response is good enough and I have good overhead on the PSU side. 

Running Android apps on x86 machines is a bit of a trick. I don't think a VM is the best way to go because of the potential performance hit. Most VMs seem to be pretty flaky too. I had originally wanted to try a Linux distro with Shashlik. Because android is essentially a Linux base for ARM, Shashlik allows OpenGL and graphics to operate from the host x86 OS (from any host Linux distro). This should speed up the operation of the apps. But it doesn't seem development on Shashlik has been updated since March or so of this year. I have a feeling that ARC is the reason.

ARC (The App Runtime for Chrome), is a Google project that allows Android apps to run in the Chrome browser. I have a feeling it was the intent of Google to tap into the vast array of Android apps to use with their Chrome OS, instead of having to rely exclusively on their own Chrome OS app store. But the real kicker is that it can be used with any x86 machine with the Chrome browser (Linux, Mac, PC, ect). I haven't tried it yet, but it claims to leverage both the CPU and GPU to enhance performance. I hope to test it out in the future, but as it stands it seems to be the best option.

https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/android/66724/1-million-android-apps-coming-chrome-os-windows

https://developer.chrome.com/apps/getstarted_arc


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## Schizm

Have you heard of the micro computer Sirius B and Sirius Black Cherry?

I forget the specs but it's a $200 self contained windows 10 pocket PC


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