# Why Subjective Listening Tests aren't worth a Damn



## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

NwAvGuy: What We Hear

I expect some blow back, but it's something that plagues this forum and many others - the dreaded (some see it as splendid) _subjective _listening reviews.

What's worse is people make decisions based on these things. Since there's little to no fact and little possibility of the person reading it to have the same experience as you, these are generally more harmful than helpful. Even worse than that, many people, mostly new, see these subjective reviews as fact.


----------



## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

Surprised nobody has commented.


----------



## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

This was just posted up the other day.


----------



## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...7383-what-we-hear.html?highlight=what+we+hear


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

its_bacon12 said:


> NwAvGuy: What We Hear
> 
> I expect some blow back, but it's something that plagues this forum and many others - the dreaded (some see it as splendid) _subjective _listening reviews.
> 
> What's worse is people make decisions based on these things. Since there's little to no fact and little possibility of the person reading it to have the same experience as you, these are generally more harmful than helpful. Even worse than that, many people, mostly new, see these subjective reviews as fact.


I'll comment, since I am doing a subjective midwoofer test here in a few weeks (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ve-listening-shootout-dyn-hat-scan-focal.html), by saying it depends on your methodology for the test. 

You blanket statement above, to me, is as bogus as you think listening test are!

From what I skimmed, he is saying that if you know when listening, you will pick the more expensive speaker. Now, the 4" Midrange subject listening test I did 2 years ago (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ge-comparison-shootout-dyn-scan-hat-more.html) and the current upcoming test, will implore the "blind" aspect of subjective testing with running through the drivers 2X in no specific order, as well as a detailed thought process of the entire test, removing as many variables as possible. 

There is a right way and a wrong way to do everything!


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't every listener in that test pick the Dyn 430 for first place? I think that says something about the value of subjective blind listening when every single person agrees on the same thing.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Of course subjectivity is important. Otherwise every system would sound the same. Subjective reviews are just the thoughts of the subject/person alone, not a blanket statement or fact. 

Subjectively I could say the IDQ is a great sub, most would agree. Objectively, its a very basic design. 

Were like food critics but with speakers.


----------



## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

tyroneshoes said:


> Of course subjectivity is important. Otherwise every system would sound the same. Subjective reviews are just the thoughts of the subject/person alone, not a blanket statement or fact.
> 
> Subjectively I could say the IDQ is a great sub, most would agree. Objectively, its a very basic design.
> 
> Were like food critics but with speakers.


I agree..
I like what I like, and you like what you like. If they happened to be the same, great... we either have similar hearing or taste in what we prefer. But nothing wrong with us disagreeing too... it means nothing more than we like different things, or have more/less tolerance for different aspects of what we hear.

Personally, I appreciate reviews that have differing impressions of equipment. But, I'm smart enough to not see it as law, but more of a pool of info about the equipment. Most people that submit reviews also give the reader a point ofju reference... sounds like this to me, I also like these, etc. Then you can reference if to what you know, and draw up your own conclusion. 

What's wrong with that?


----------



## Q-Authority (Mar 31, 2008)

I would hardly say that they are worthless, but ones needs to take them for what they are, and be able to interpret them according to one's own likes and dislikes. The general characteristics are more likely to be something that most people will agree upon, not so much the various nuances. And much of the time it comes down to simple communication differences.


----------



## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

I meant more in terms of others using that data. Sure it would be important in determining which product serves your purposes/preferences over others, and the functions of a product, but as far as giving listening impressions, it's worthless to others.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

BuickGN said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't every listener in that test pick the Dyn 430 for first place? I think that says something about the value of subjective blind listening when every single person agrees on the same thing.


That test was not a blind test, if I remember correctly. The word subjective can not be used in any sentence that is trying to draw a true conclusion. Otherwise its all personal preference, and that might be the same for a group of people, but is still not a means to a end or all groups of people. 

Me, I dont care for what others "think" of things, bottom line is that it only matters what I think. I would never draw a conclusion of what the best speaker out of a group is for me by reading some elses thoughts on it.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

That one was blind


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

BeatsDownLow said:


> That test was not a blind test, if I remember correctly. The word subjective can not be used in any sentence that is trying to draw a true conclusion. Otherwise its all personal preference, and that might be the same for a group of people, but is still not a means to a end or all groups of people.
> 
> Me, I dont care for what others "think" of things, bottom line is that it only matters what I think. I would never draw a conclusion of what the best speaker out of a group is for me by reading some elses thoughts on it.


Well, considering all testers involved were sent out of the room when speakers were changed, grill cloth covered the speakers, and we did each speaker twice in a random order, tell me how it was not blind?


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Niebur3 said:


> Well, considering all testers involved were sent out of the room when speakers were changed, grill cloth covered the speakers, and we did each speaker twice in a random order, tell me how it was not blind?


I guess I didnt remember correctly then, hence why I put that in my reply.


----------



## rape_ape (Sep 22, 2010)

I find them useful when they have comments like ... this one went lower than that one, or this one handled the power better before breaking up, or that one had a bad peak at 5k or whatever. Kind of objective observations in the subjective listening tests. Nice troll thread tho.


----------

