# subwoofer upgrade: JL W3 versus W6



## GCVIC (Dec 29, 2015)

Hi all. I don't post much, but I am on this DIY site quite a bit. I am pretty new to car audio but managed to rewire my system by myself - thanks to this great forum.

I have a Alpine pdx f6 driving active hertz Hsk 165xl components in the front, hertz hdp4 (1 channel only) driving ecx 165.5 coaxial in the back, with hertz hcp 1D driving a dieci 252.3 subs/box in trunk. I use my own head unit (Genesis coupe) with a Jbl MS8. 

I am pretty happy with everything, except the subs/box. My sense is that the subs/box can not keep up to the rest of my system - and when I push them they lack clarity and sound muddy, I am assuming this is distortion. In addition, when tuning my jblms8, even with my pdx and hdp4 levels at minimum, I still can't get the levels quite right pre-calibration.

I'd like to upgrade to a sub/box solution that can easily keep up to the rest of my system while also significantly improving Sound Quality.

I should note that my local dealers don't really have good set ups and none have JL w3 or W6 set up, and definitely not in a way that I can compare.

I am thinking of upgrading to either :
- 1 new JL W3: or
- 2 new JL W3's; or
- 1 new JL W6.

I am open other brands, but I am hearing that it is hard to beat JL subs, if you can stomach the cost. But I am open to sub(s) with equal or better SQ that are cheaper 

But otherwise, my questions are:

1) will all three JL options (i.e including just 1 w3) above sound louder, more clear and better SQ than my my current subs?

2) Will the 1 JL W6 be a better choice than two JL W3's? 

I am more interested in a nice clear full SQ sound - I would likely choose a sealed box.

I did do a search and thought this question may be specific enough for its own thread.

Thank you so much for your thoughts / comments on this!

Paul


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

1) what kind of subs do you have now? 
2) how are the installed?
3) what are your XOver points for the system? 
4) you're not the first person I've heard having issues intergrating/blending subs with the rest of the system with the MS-8. I can remember the reason why, and the MS-8 thread has hundreds of pages. Give us more details, swapping subwoofers may not resolve the issue.


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## GCVIC (Dec 29, 2015)

mmiller said:


> 1) what kind of subs do you have now?
> 2) how are the installed?
> 3) what are your XOver points for the system?
> 4) you're not the first person I've heard having issues intergrating/blending subs with the rest of the system with the MS-8. I can remember the reason why, and the MS-8 thread has hundreds of pages. Give us more details, swapping subwoofers may not resolve the issue.


Thanks for your reply above. I have been struggling with integration, but hours of 'calibrating' and re calibrating has helped improve integration. I have actually printed out the whole 256+ page ms8 thread and read it over and over - integration especially sub to mid bass seems to be an issue for multiple folks. 

In particular, I try to match the decibel for each speaker using the jblms8 pink noise precalibration, but this usually results in cranking down my pdx and hdp4 to almost minimum gain to match the decibel output of my subs, with sub amp input gain at 12 o'clock. I believe 12 o'clock is about 2 volts, which I understand aligns with ms8 output. When I turn up my pdx and hdp4 postcalibration, there is no more 'room' to turn up my sub amp to match them without the subs starting to sound bad.

I need one more post before I am allowed to post links, but the subs are Hertz dieci 252.3 subs/box - this is a preloaded box from Hertz with two 10" Hertz DS 25.3 subs wired in parallel at 2 ohms and a total of 300 watts RMS. You can find them on the Hertz website under -->products --> speakers --> Dieci.

I think they are the most entry-level subs that hertz makes. I am powering them wit an Hertz HCP 1D that puts out 700 watts RMS.

Sub box is in the trunk wedged under the back deck behind the back seat with subs pointed backwards.

I have been playing with XO, but usually crossover sub at 80 hertz at 24 db/octave. Front tweets at 3500 at 24 db/octave.

I can see myself moving to a new dsp one day and I have been looking at Helix, but I am interested in what audiofrog will do. For now, I want to try and keep the jblms8 for a bit longer. 

I can't help but think my current subs/box are my weak point, but sure do not want to spend $1500+ on subs without a significant increase in SQ 

Really appreciate your advice - I love all this car audio stuff, but most of the time I am way over my head! 

Paul


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

GCVIC said:


> Thanks for your reply above. I have been struggling with integration, but hours of 'calibrating' and re calibrating has helped improve integration. I have actually printed out the whole 256+ page ms8 thread and read it over and over - integration especially sub to mid bass seems to be an issue for multiple folks.
> 
> In particular, I try to match the decibel for each speaker using the jblms8 pink noise precalibration, but this usually results in cranking down my pdx and hdp4 to almost minimum gain to match the decibel output of my subs, with sub amp input gain at 12 o'clock. I believe 12 o'clock is about 2 volts, which I understand aligns with ms8 output. When I turn up my pdx and hdp4 postcalibration, there is no more 'room' to turn up my sub amp to match them without the subs starting to sound bad.
> 
> ...


If you sub stage is not as loud as the mid range under normal use it will boost it during calibration. Back the subs gain off after calibration.


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## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

can you get a basic meter? i can help you tune it fairly easily with a meter.
I wouldnt use an auto feature on any processor. I personally never get great results.


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## GCVIC (Dec 29, 2015)

I will keep playing around with gains, backing off sub amp after calibration, etc

I will also do some research on meters on this forum - I believe there are some great threads. Is there any one in particular that you recommend? 

Given that I can continue to increase integration with practice, do you think one of the following options would significantly improve SQ over what I currently have? I am kind of leaning towards one W6, but don't want to spend the money if I can't hear the difference from what I have :

- 1 new JL W3
- Dual (2) new JL W3's 
- 1 new JL W6

Or something not as expensive and similar SQ to the W6?

Appreciate any advice hete,

Paul


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

W6 is a big step up from the W3's IMO. If you want excellent SQ on the cheap, I always recommend the Dayton Ultimax, or H.O. In my experience they're better than a lot of subs costing 2-3 X as much as far as car subs go.. I think P.E is having a sale on them right now as well. 

I do love the W6 though, awesome subwoofer, one of my personal favourites, but they don't fit everyone's budget... Some Me on here was selling a brand new one, or slightly use for a good price. I think it was JVD 240, but don't hold me to that.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

GCVIC said:


> I will keep playing around with gains, backing off sub amp after calibration, etc
> 
> I will also do some research on meters on this forum - I believe there are some great threads. Is there any one in particular that you recommend?
> 
> ...


2000 Series - DD Audio


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## GCVIC (Dec 29, 2015)

I went to my local car audio shop today. They told me to go for 1 JLW7, versus 1 JL W6 or 2 JL W3's. Said W6 is a whole new league to the W3, and if I was going to fork out cash for W6, I might as well go all out for the W7.

Does this sound like good advice?

Thanks


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

I think most of use will say the W6 is a better sounding woofer overall. If I was spending W7 money I wouldn't be buying a W7. Of course the shop will tell you to get the one that gives them the largest profit.


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## GCVIC (Dec 29, 2015)

DDfusion said:


> I think most of use will say the W6 is a better sounding woofer overall. If I was spending W7 money I wouldn't be buying a W7. Of course the shop will tell you to get the one that gives them the largest profit.


This is exactly what I have been reading on this forum - that I should choose the W6 for SQ. I listen to both country and hip hop and almost everything in between. Its so hard given no store around me has these available to demo.

My decisions now are a single JL W6 that is either:
A) 10" or 12"
B) Ported or sealed

For example JL have pro wedge or ported HO boxes.

JL Audio CS112G-W6v3 - ProWedge™

JL Audio HO112-W6v3 - H.O. Wedge™ 

Do you folks have thoughts / advice on these options?

Thanks, Paul


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

GCVIC said:


> This is exactly what I have been reading on this forum - that I should choose the W6 for SQ. I listen to both country and hip hop and almost everything in between. Its so hard given no store around me has these available to demo.
> 
> My decisions now are a single JL W6 that is either:
> A) 10" or 12"
> ...


You can make just about any woofer play everything. That's box and tuning. What you have to take away for it to happen leads to cheaper options most of the time.


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## firebirdude (Dec 24, 2009)

One 12" W6 in a sealed box.

And agreed on the W7. Great woofer. Ain't worth the extra ~$300+. The W6 is a solid choice.


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## Tiago729 (May 24, 2015)

GCVIC said:


> This is exactly what I have been reading on this forum - that I should choose the W6 for SQ. I listen to both country and hip hop and almost everything in between. Its so hard given no store around me has these available to demo.
> 
> My decisions now are a single JL W6 that is either:
> A) 10" or 12"
> ...


I have the HO110-W6V3 (upgraded from a sealed 12W3). In my opinion it is the best medium between sound quality and sound pressure. Had it for a couple of years now. I think the HCP1D would be a perfect match for it. Just check out the reviews at Crutchfield and JL Audio.com, everyone seems happy with it.


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## GCVIC (Dec 29, 2015)

Nice, and thanks.

I intend to power the JL pro wedge 12" W6 (600RMS) with a Hertz hcp 1D - I think this should be perfect at 700 watts RMS, but please let me know if you think otherwise:

Hertz HCP 1D car audio amplifier 

One more thing, my retailer is going to check with his distributor and see if he can find a factory refurbished W6. He says each and every W6 is tested at the factory in Germany, and some don't make it, but are refitted with new parts - and I may save "a few hundred bucks" on my purchase. Do you have any concerns with buying one of these potential refurbished W6s?

Thanks!


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## GCVIC (Dec 29, 2015)

Tiago729 said:


> I have the HO110-W6V3 (upgraded from a sealed 12W3). In my opinion it is the best medium between sound quality and sound pressure. Had it for a couple of years now. I think the HCP1D would be a perfect match for it. Just check out the reviews at Crutchfield and JL Audio.com, everyone seems happy with it.


Haha, you answered my question before I even asked! Thanks.

I have heard that the HO110-W6V3 is amazing. In fact, my impression that this one is my retailer's favourite sub. Is it a big difference over your old sealed W3?

Did you think about getting the 12" W6 sealed ProWedge? And if so, why did you choose the HO11 instead?


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## Tiago729 (May 24, 2015)

GCVIC said:


> Haha, you answered my question before I even asked! Thanks.
> 
> I have heard that the HO110-W6V3 is amazing. In fact, my impression that this one is my retailer's favourite sub. Is it a big difference over your old sealed W3?
> 
> Did you think about getting the 12" W6 sealed ProWedge? And if so, why did you choose the HO11 instead?


It literally sounds like 2 sealed W3s and without losing its composure. It is very loud and controlled, my friends can't believe it's a single 10. I bet the ho112 would sound just as good. But the HO110 it's perfect for my needs, I keep my volume at -3dbs pretty much all the time.


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## mirkinator (Feb 22, 2016)

Have you thought about used? A used 12w6v3 and a new sealed prefab box from sonic came out to $365 total. The sub was mint and the box cheaper than what I could build it for.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

GCVIC said:


> Nice, and thanks.
> 
> I intend to power the JL pro wedge 12" W6 (600RMS) with a Hertz hcp 1D - I think this should be perfect at 700 watts RMS, but please let me know if you think otherwise:
> 
> ...


They are made in Floida... He's dumb


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## Kellyo77 (Dec 5, 2009)

If you watch the classifieds here, there are always some amazing speakers being sold. Bet you could find something and save a lot of money in the process. Make sure that is the problem first though.


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## IbizaOnAcid (Dec 22, 2009)

In my opinion those pre-loaded 12W6s are priced outrageously!
I have 3 12w6v2 for sale. The newest one has less than 20 hours play time on it. I would sell you that one for $250 plus shipping which would come out to around $300 even!
A good sealed box is the easiest type box (or cheapest if you don't want to do it yourself) to build.
Let me know what you think. I am currently using 2 12w6v2s in an IB setup and I love them!


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## GCVIC (Dec 29, 2015)

IbizaOnAcid said:


> In my opinion those pre-loaded 12W6s are priced outrageously!
> I have 3 12w6v2 for sale. The newest one has less than 20 hours play time on it. I would sell you that one for $250 plus shipping which would come out to around $300 even!
> A good sealed box is the easiest type box (or cheapest if you don't want to do it yourself) to build.
> Let me know what you think. I am currently using 2 12w6v2s in an IB setup and I love them!


Hi there - this is great, and I appreciate the offer. I would jump at this chance, but I live in British Columbia, Canada. I bought my jblms8 off this forum, however, and it was an arm and a leg to ship - in addition to shipping costs, on arrival I was charged over $150 by the courier for 'brokerage' fees to cross the usa/canada border. I got the jblms8 for a good price, but paid almost equivalent for shipping / brokerage fees!

I do hear you about the cost of the JL box though, and building one could potentially be customized to fit my trunk perfectly.

I will see what kind of price my retailer comes up with and let you know, and go from there.

Cheers, Paul


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## GCVIC (Dec 29, 2015)

> They are made in Floida... He's dumb


Lol, is there town called 'Germany' in Florida? 

You know, it's little things like this that makes one question the trustworthiness. I wonder if he truly believes they are made in Germany or whether he is just BSing me. Honesty, the fact that these subs get such good reviews is what matters to me, not particularly where it's from - I do wish, however that my local expert had his facts straight!


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

GCVIC said:


> Lol, is there town called 'Germany' in Florida?
> 
> You know, it's little things like this that makes one question the trustworthiness. I wonder if he truly believes they are made in Germany or whether he is just BSing me. Honesty, the fact that these subs get such good reviews is what matters to me, not particularly where it's from - I do wish, however that my local expert had his facts straight!


The C5 speakers are German. I think


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## IbizaOnAcid (Dec 22, 2009)

GCVIC said:


> Hi there - this is great, and I appreciate the offer. I would jump at this chance, but I live in British Columbia, Canada. I bought my jblms8 off this forum, however, and it was an arm and a leg to ship - in addition to shipping costs, on arrival I was charged over $150 by the courier for 'brokerage' fees to cross the usa/canada border. I got the jblms8 for a good price, but paid almost equivalent for shipping / brokerage fees!
> 
> I do hear you about the cost of the JL box though, and building one could potentially be customized to fit my trunk perfectly.
> 
> ...


Oops, didn't notice where you were from. Well if you can figure a cheaper way to get it up there let me know.


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## GCVIC (Dec 29, 2015)

I found someone local selling a 'new in box'
10w6 v2d4. He has told me to give him an offer, not sure what it's worth, but I think I can save some money here. 

I am going to do some more research but is there a good way to sum up the difference between 10W6v2d4 versus the 10W6v3d4 (i.e., V2 vs V3) currently on the JL webpage: 10W6v3-D4 - Car Audio - Subwoofer Drivers - W6v3 - JL Audio ?


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## GCVIC (Dec 29, 2015)

So i paid an arm and a leg for a 12 inch pro wedge sealed JL W6v3 (~1000 canadian funds). I just could not find a good used one for the right price in the Canadian market without paying the duty and brokerage and other shipping costs.

The one subwoofer alone sounds really nice for my needs and a huge upgrade over my previous hertz Deci dual 10 inch subs. I am no expert when comparing subwoofers, but the sound seems so much smoother, clean and 'musical,' with pretty much equal volume across frequencies. 

I was having trouble especially with the volume of my previous subwoofers when integrating the subs with the front stage. It seems like there's a lot less effort needed to find that integration now.

I have no regrets at all for my purchase. I love this thing!

Just don't tell my wife how much I paid for 'a speaker.'


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## Ericm1205 (May 10, 2016)

good for you. these subs are the perfect subs to bridge that gap from SQ to SPL. i have 2 JL 12w6 and i love them and i might add a 3rd in my charger. lol.


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