# Crossover settings for Active set-up



## tuner culture (Jul 14, 2010)

Just about finished my build, getting ready to start setting up the Audison Bitone, I need some input on my crossover setting for my speakers. Hopefully I can get some input as starter points or good ranges to stay in. Firts time running Active system and tunning.


Audison Voce 1.1 (Tweeter): start at 2,400Hz @ 12dB per octave Butterworth,

Audison Voce 3.0 (Mid Range): 450Hz @ 12dB per octave Butterworth and 2,400Hz (bandbass) 

Audison Voce 6.5 (Midbass ): set at 70Hz @ 12 dB per octave Butterworth and 450 Hz (bandpass)

Jl Audio 10w6v2 (Sub): 50-60 Hz @ 24 dB per octave Butterworth


Amps are - 
JL Audio HD1200 Subs
JL Audio HD600 Mid range and Mid Bass
JL Audio XD200 Tweeters


Thanks for any help


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

never run the audisons, so I wont comment on that. if you think those are good starting points, go for it. just be careful you dont ever accidentally turn the tweeter high pass off.

also, I wouldnt leave a gap between the midbass and the sub.


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## tuner culture (Jul 14, 2010)

yes, thats why im asking, not sure if they are good starting points? Hopefully someone can help make sure im in a good range to start with or provide some ideas


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

I agree with mini about not leaving a gap between the sub and midbass. I always used to do that when I was using 12db xo's but if you have the capability to do 3rd or 4th order I would cross them at the same freq. Also you may find that a higher sub/mid xo will sound better. A 6.5 can be rolled off pretty bad at even 80hz. Try 100hz for both at 18 or 24 db. The midbass/midrange is ok but I would use 3rd orders. Personally I would raise the midhigh/tweeter xo to maybe 3k - 4k.(I've never liked the sound of a 1" dome below 3k) And change the xo's on both the tweeter and mid high to 3rd orders. That's where I would start. Good luck.


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## tuner culture (Jul 14, 2010)

Thank you, I will try that.. Very appreciated!


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

And I have the opposite advice of Spyke's, so try that too.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

MarkZ said:


> And I have the opposite advice of Spyke's, so try that too.


And what might that be? :snacks:


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

1) Gaps in xover point can be fine, IME. There's tricky things that go on around the sub/midbass crossover point, particularly with phase coherence. Underlapping and overlapping can deal with some of these issues.
2) As a general rule, I like shallow slopes. At the sub xover point, I think it can sometimes aid in pulling localization forward.
3) Shallow slopes at the midrange/tweeter xover point can reduce effects of a wandering stage.
4) I like low crossover points on tweeters, especially when the mids are mounted low and off-axis. I usually let the power handling capabilities of the tweeter dictate their crossover point.

YMMV

Main point is that I think there are a number of factors to consider, and it makes a lot of sense for people to tweak all of these parameters in their installs to deal with the specific problems that they face in their own vehicles. Anyone who's serious about getting good sound (which would be most of us) should spend a considerable amount of time doing exactly that.


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

You can totally have a gap! It could work great in one car and suck in another.

Just need to see how it sounds.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

MarkZ said:


> 1) Gaps in xover point can be fine, IME. There's tricky things that go on around the sub/midbass crossover point, particularly with phase coherence. Underlapping and overlapping can deal with some of these issues.
> 2) As a general rule, I like shallow slopes. At the sub xover point, I think it can sometimes aid in pulling localization forward.
> 3) Shallow slopes at the midrange/tweeter xover point can reduce effects of a wandering stage.
> 4) I like low crossover points on tweeters, especially when the mids are mounted low and off-axis. I usually let the power handling capabilities of the tweeter dictate their crossover point.


1. I agree, I usually leave gaps in the mid/tweeter xo
2. I've had good luck with even 1st order slopes on the sub woofer, and it does pull it forward.
3. Something new for me to play with
4. That's personal preference and has a lot to do with placement as you said.


MarkZ said:


> Main point is that I think there are a number of factors to consider, and it makes a lot of sense for people to tweak all of these parameters in their installs to deal with the specific problems that they face in their own vehicles. Anyone who's serious about getting good sound (which would be most of us) should spend a considerable amount of time doing exactly that.


You make a good point and I just realized something. All the advise that I gave was the result of 3 years of tweaking one of my systems and 2 years in another. So I guess that's why there are no simple "this will work" answers. And I don't think any system is ever completely finished.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

And i'll prob switch back to low orders eventually. So I guess the best advice for crossover settings is no advice.


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## abdulwq (Aug 17, 2008)

how about overlapping sub/midbass ?


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

abdulwq said:


> how about overlapping sub/midbass ?


If if sounds good to you, then do it.


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## SkodaTeam (Feb 26, 2009)

tuner culture said:


> Just about finished my build, getting ready to start setting up the Audison Bitone, I need some input on my crossover setting for my speakers. Hopefully I can get some input as starter points or good ranges to stay in. Firts time running Active system and tunning.
> 
> 
> Audison Voce 1.1 (Tweeter): start at 2,400Hz @ 12dB per octave Butterworth,
> ...


If i were you i would try little diferent points at first. Mayby:

Audison Voce 1.1 (Tweeter): start at 3,400Hz @ 24dB per octave Butterworth,

Audison Voce 3.0 (Mid Range): 300Hz @ 18dB per octave Butterworth and 3,400Hz (bandbass) 

Audison Voce 6.5 (Midbass ): set at 63Hz @ 18 dB per octave Butterworth and 300 Hz (bandpass)

Jl Audio 10w6v2 (Sub): 50 Hz @ 18 dB per octave Butterworth


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

question, i have my midbass HP at 63ish and bass LP at 80

is that adversely affecting my setup?

CC


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

vwjmkv said:


> question, i have my midbass HP at 63ish and bass LP at 80
> 
> is that adversely affecting my setup?
> 
> CC


If it sound good, no. if you have a steep LP and a shallow HP, this can work very well

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

Just remember that you don't need a low xo for your sub or a steep slope. I cross my sub [email protected] and my mid [email protected] I have also used 6db slopes on my sub. And don't think that there is a hint of localization. Another misleading thing i've noticed is the frequency response for 5.25 and 6.5" midbasses is the freq response. There is no way that a 6.5 can put out 60hz with any kind of authority or at least enough to keep up with a sub. Around 100-160 is where the punch comes from, so look at your 6.5" mids and decide if they have enough surface area to make you feel that punch. Prob not.


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## welllam (Jan 12, 2011)

I set mine around 125, this is due to my background noise of my car, where I have exhaust and engine noise at 50-100 Hz. In order to compensate, I really need to turn up the gain to feel the bass.
So I want to say is that it also depends on what your environment is and what you want to achieve. 




Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## katodevin (Feb 14, 2008)

How close are your mids and tweeters mounted together?
I personally would run the mids a bit higher. 3k or 3.5k depending on location/direction they're pointing.


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## tuner culture (Jul 14, 2010)

Mid bass are in the stock door location - on Axis
Mid range are in the kick panels - off axis
tweeters are up high in the stock door locations, - off axis, 

but might switch the tweeters to the pillars after i start playing with sound.


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## tuner culture (Jul 14, 2010)

question - On the Jl Audio HD and XD amps, do i use the filter mode high pass/low pass filters if im using the bitone or set them to off?


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## VooDooZg (Dec 25, 2010)

i have AV 12, 6.5, 3.0 and 1.1 and LRX 5.1k and factory crrosovers MB and for MH ( for mid and tw ) and BitOne

After one year of tuning my setup goes like this and sound best with this settings

Sub AV12 bandpass 20-60hz 12db
kick AV6.5 bandpass 60-250Hz 12db
Mid/Hi hi-pass 300hz ( i use MB factory crossover from AV K6 sistem 2.5khz slope 12/12db,, i also have MH-mid-tw crossovers but IMHO MB are beter so 2.5khz works better for me )

The most important thing is that AV 1.1 tw MUST BE On-Axis because it only work well that way it sound much better when is ON-axis !!

sorry for my bed english
feel free to ask if you're interested in something else


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## Libertyguy20 (Jun 6, 2012)

Tuner:

I have a bit 10. Turn off all amp crossover's (if possible) if you are using the bit one to control everything. If the xo is not defeatable, use a xo point that is much higher or lower (depending on speaker) than that of your bit one and it should be fine. I needed to do this for my sub channel on my 5 channel amp. (I set the low pass x/o on my amp to [email protected] so it played up that high, but then used a low pass x/o on my bit 10 to [email protected]).

With your tweets in the stock door location and your mids down in the kickpanel that gap in my opinion would make me want to play first with 1st a 2nd order crossver points between the tweet/midrange....i think on the bit one you can due the butterworths with 6 and 12 db slopes (not the L/R x/o's though). I have a 3 way setup now, but used to have a 4 way setup.

try these:

Audison Voce 1.1 (Tweeter): start at 3,500Hz @ 12dB per octave Butterworth,

Audison Voce 3.0 (Mid Range): 250Hz @ 12dB per octave Butterworth and 3,000Hz (bandbass) 

Audison Voce 6.5 (Midbass ): set at 63Hz @ 24 dB per octave Butterworth and 200 Hz (bandpass)

Jl Audio 10w6v2 (Sub): 63 Hz @ 12 dB per octave Butterworth


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## tuner culture (Jul 14, 2010)

Thanks liberty guy and voodoo, I'm going to head out now and play with those ideas.

Much appreciated


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Since you can adjust the crossover points with your finger, why not cross your midrange higher to 6.3kHz? Let your midrange sing, not your tweeter.... 
Even if you let Pioneer's auto tune, it will cross your midrange high.....
Just give a try and you may be surprise with the result....


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## Grindcore (Dec 12, 2012)

Spyke said:


> Just remember that you don't need a low xo for your sub or a steep slope. I cross my sub [email protected] and my mid [email protected] I have also used 6db slopes on my sub. And don't think that there is a hint of localization. Another misleading thing i've noticed is the frequency response for 5.25 and 6.5" midbasses is the freq response. There is no way that a 6.5 can put out 60hz with any kind of authority or at least enough to keep up with a sub. Around 100-160 is where the punch comes from, so look at your 6.5" mids and decide if they have enough surface area to make you feel that punch. Prob not.


All depends on driver and install...I'm running 6.5" Boston pro mids down to 63hz with an 18db slope in deadend doors and they play with plenty of authority


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

Grindcore said:


> All depends on driver and install...I'm running 6.5" Boston pro mids down to 63hz with an 18db slope in deadend doors and they play with plenty of authority


I feel ya there, my Imagine 6.5's are at 75hz/24db, and they have real meat, more than I thought they could. Totally surprised by the output.

All this talk of higher sub xover points has got me wanting to try some things:

1. mid xover to a shallower, 12db or 18db, at 85-90 hz
2. sub xover " " " " " " " " " at 75-85 hz

Easy to try, might result in better...something...


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

Grindcore said:


> All depends on driver and install...I'm running 6.5" Boston pro mids down to 63hz with an 18db slope in deadend doors and they play with plenty of authority


**** it, hammer them mids. Who needs clear midrange?

This thread is almost a year old btw.


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

Spyke said:


> This thread is almost a year old btw.


I'm such a noob.


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## DDBear (Jan 30, 2015)

SkodaTeam said:


> If i were you i would try little diferent points at first. Mayby:
> 
> Audison Voce 1.1 (Tweeter): start at 3,400Hz @ 24dB per octave Butterworth,
> 
> ...


I wonder what I can do to make mine sound "thicker" on some of the rock guitar frequencies and some of the vocals (some songs sound thin and nasal in these frequencies). I have a similar setup - the shop set the Focal 3 way flax component set (PS165F3) to 3,500Hz, 300Hz, and 60Hz if I remember correctly. I have the JL 10w6v3 sub set to 80Hz. I have the Bit one processor and the shop did a preliminary tuning prior to break-in. I'm going to install the Bit one software and have some fun messing with the settings. Suggestions?


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

be aware that thickness comes from around 200 hz and 1.6 kHz, so boosting frequencies there will result in drastic sound signature changes. which you might like, but which you might not


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## DDBear (Jan 30, 2015)

Lycancatt said:


> be aware that thickness comes from around 200 hz and 1.6 kHz, so boosting frequencies there will result in drastic sound signature changes. which you might like, but which you might not


Good tip. Do you think any of it could also involve the cutoff frequencies between the 3 speakers? An example is the song "Dangerous" by David Guetta. The higher vocals sound fine on my home stereo system, while these vocals are already thin in the recording, there is enough depth to sound good on the home stereo. But on my new Audison/Focal system these high vocals sound very nasal and thin while the staging is good. The lower vocal chorus line sounds fine. So whatever frequencies these higher vocals are in need some more depth and I am not sure whether this might just be the EQ adjustment or also involve crossover freqs.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

This thread has great information.


And maybe this link has a bit of useful information

http://education.lenardaudio.com/en/06_x-over.html


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## DDBear (Jan 30, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> This thread has great information.
> 
> 
> And maybe this link has a bit of useful information
> ...


It is interesting, this pro article says "There has been many attempts to force speakers to be crossed over at 300Hz and 3kHz at higher power but with limited success." This makes me wonder how is everyone able to cross over at these frequencies (as suggested by several posts in this thread) with good results? Either the article is outdated, or the suggestions here are not ideal?


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## MetricMuscle (Sep 16, 2013)

DDBear said:


> I wonder what I can do to make mine sound "thicker" on some of the rock guitar frequencies and some of the vocals (some songs sound thin and nasal in these frequencies). I have a similar setup - the shop set the Focal 3 way flax component set (PS165F3) to 3,500Hz, 300Hz, and 60Hz if I remember correctly. I have the JL 10w6v3 sub set to 80Hz. I have the Bit one processor and the shop did a preliminary tuning prior to break-in. I'm going to install the Bit one software and have some fun messing with the settings. Suggestions?


Where are your drivers mounted?

I've learned allot lately about driver placement and crossover frequency/slope reading thru the MS-8 thread. Most of this information pertains to general car set-up and the compromises we have to make regardless of brands or models of DSP, amps, speakers etc.

Andy suggests crossover points around 1KHz/3KHz between mid-bass/mid/tweeter. Always use steep 24db slopes.
This primarily keeps each driver in it's happy range and below where beaming will start.
This allows you to mount the mid-bass and mid off-axis. The tweeter can be too but will probably work better more on-axis or within 30 degrees off-axis.
This will allow the mid-bass to handle the areas a 3" mid won't have the gusto and authority to.
This will allow for a smaller tweeter for easier mounting and aiming.

As for placement. Kick panel mounting is no longer necessary with a DSP unless using YUGE mid-bass drivers.
Otherwise, mid-bass low in the door, typical OE location.
Mid in the upper front corner of the door or close.
Tweeter in the sail panel.

This is done to minimize reflections from the windshield.
The door and door glass are now a common baffle for all of the drivers and reflections from them will be close in delay to the direct sound.
Windshield reflections will be much later and much weaker, sound is attenuated by 6db for every doubling of distance.

The OP's arrangement was kinda strange with the mid in the kick panel and so far away from the tweeter.


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## DDBear (Jan 30, 2015)

MetricMuscle said:


> Andy suggests crossover points around 1KHz/3KHz between mid-bass/mid/tweeter. Always use steep 24db slopes.
> This primarily keeps each driver in it's happy range and below where beaming will start.


Very interesting, that makes sense. So if I allow the 6.5" midbass to handle up to 1kHz maybe the entire vocal range (including female vocals) will sound thicker. It seems odd to me that the installer said that Focal recommends the little 3" to handle such a huge chunk of the frequency range from 300Hz to 3kHz. Maybe as you said, the little 3" can't handle 300Hz to 600Hz with authority and that's why the guitars and female vocals sound thin. 

My midbass and mid are in the door (typical flat with the door), and the tweeters are in the pillars pointed toward the center console at driver height.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

6.5 about 100 or 125 if you have a peak at 125ish....run sub up higher and eq 100 125 down till blends.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

I use steep slopes for sub low pass and midbass highpass -24 db/oct or even more, for top end I use shalower slopes. For start I use the same slope between different drivers.
Im also a fan of higher set xo points with use of wideband mid driverswith xo point for tweeter 5k and up. Sub low pass between 50/60Hz, midbass hi pass from 63 and up to 180/250Hz, mid from 300-4/5 k.

I just can understand xo points in 120Hz region. I use sealed or AP enclosures for midbass and with hi pass set so high i got feeling that I robed midbass a great deal of output. Got no problem with authority of midbass in 60-80 Hz range, and I really dont like that subwoofer become a band aid for bad installed midbass driver. I also dont like subwoofer to reach in vocal range and with low xo point i prevent this and maintain clen upper sound reproduction. Sub also stays in omnidirectional part of sound spectrum with low xo point which prevent sub localization.
with steep xo point between sub and midbass I prevent driver overlaping, result is less phase problems which are easy detectable in that freq. region.


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