# Blu-Ray wins format war... or so it seems.



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Blu-Ray looks to have won.

CES marked the announcement of Warner Bros. going Blu-Ray only. Apparently it was also discovered that Paramount has a clause in the HD-DVD camp contract stating they have the option to back out if Warner was to go with the Blu-Ray camp. 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=114
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/dc409afa-bd...est.com/showthread.php?t=34926&nclick_check=1


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

Good, HD DVD is lame. Why would you support HDDVD when you can go bluray which is way better? It's stupid that there was even a "format war" to begin with. It should have been obvious and those companies should never have tried keeping HDDVD alive.


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

kimokalihi said:


> Good, HD DVD is lame. Why would you support HDDVD when you can go bluray which is way better? It's stupid that there was even a "format war" to begin with. It should have been obvious and those companies should never have tried keeping HDDVD alive.


I'm not sure why you think HD-DVD is so lame actually. Blu-Ray has more space... so what? It wasn't utilized. Really for all intents and purposes it was the same, and the HD-DVD special features usually worked better than Blu-Ray. I personally have wanted Blu-Ray to win from the start, however I think it's a cheap shot, and lack of knowledge to insult the other format which was basically equal in every way.


----------



## gbraen (Mar 2, 2007)

havok20222 said:


> Blu-Ray looks to have won.
> 
> CES marked the announcement of Warner Bros. going Blu-Ray only. Apparently it was also discovered that Paramount has a clause in the HD-DVD camp contract stating they have the option to back out if Warner was to go with the Blu-Ray camp.
> 
> ...


I belive Microsoft paid Paramount $150 million to choose HD-DVD as well...


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

gbraen said:


> I belive Microsoft paid Paramount $150 million to choose HD-DVD as well...


Indeed they did, however they had a Warner Bros Blu-Ray clause in the contract. Apparently.


----------



## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

havok20222 said:


> I'm not sure why you think HD-DVD is so lame actually. Blu-Ray has more space... so what? It wasn't utilized. Really for all intents and purposes it was the same, and the HD-DVD special features usually worked better than Blu-Ray. I personally have wanted Blu-Ray to win from the start, however I think it's a cheap shot, and lack of knowledge to insult the other format which was basically equal in every way.


actually they are not equal. Not only does blu-ray support 1080p (hd is 1080i only) it also supports (or CAN support) true THX 7.1 surround.


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

bobditts said:


> actually they are not equal. Not only does blu-ray support 1080p (hd is 1080i only) it also supports (or CAN support) true THX 7.1 surround.


Incorrect sir. HD-DVD supports full 1080/24p picture, as well as 7.1 bitstream for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Now not all the PLAYERS support that (in fact none support DTS-MA) but they absolutely can handle 1080p. Their current lineup however is quirky on how it outputs 1080p, however the format absolutely supports it.


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

Bluray has much higher data transfer rate 54Mbps vs 36Mbps. Bluray also has higher video bit rate max 40Mbps vs 28Mbps. 

Although they both have the same surround sound capabilities and resolution of 1920×1080 (1080p).

I'm not sure if they utilize all the space for movies right now on Bluray or not but I know they will for games. The makers of Ratchet and Clank Future said they used like a sixth of the processing power of the PS3. Meaning the graphics could have been WAY better and they already looked pretty good. Better graphics and better games means more space required. Soon enough games won't fit on an HD DVD. PC games are already up to like 6-9GB for some. 

Even if they didn't utilize it, I'd still support it. I'm sure they will in the future and bigger is better with room to expand. Universal and Paramount just need to drop HD DVD and bury that format and we can all forget about it and move on.


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Betamax was better... just remember that.


----------



## SQKid89 (Feb 22, 2007)

i will still support hd-dvd until the format is dust. i purchased my xbox 360 add-on back when it was the least expensive HD player at $169. if its being killed off, that means cheaper movies for me. 
i still wont jump on to bluray until players come down in price. if hd-dvd can make a stand-alone player for under $200, why can't bluray? the cheapest one on the market is still the ps3, and i'm still not on board with them until they have more than one or two first party games. on top of things, since the format still doesnt have a set standard, why by a player now if it can't support future releases?
i still see red


----------



## The Drake (Apr 3, 2007)

I really hope blu-ray wins because they have disney backing them and havent picked up the porn industry to my knowledge. Cant stand that HD DVD is open to them.... Thats why I want blu-ray to win! I do prefer HD DVD because the name Blu-ray is so frickin stupid, I mean think about it, where has the market gone with media, you have VHS, CD, VCD, DVD, and then Blu-ray ?? What the heck! thats really stupid IMO anyway. HD DVD makes more sense for names sake, but whatever. Either way the market for high-def is still very small and it may never take off since DVD players and DVD's are significantly cheaper and your average joe cant tell a difference between the two.


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

I believe the porn market is going with blu-ray which will make them the winner by a long shot.


----------



## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

The porn market has flip-flopped a few times....either way, the porn market won't be a big deal now like it was when it was VHS vs. Beta.

Blu-Ray will most likely end up the winner now that they have the backing of ~70% of the major studios with Paramount potentially switching on a permanent basis in the near future. I only hope that HD-DVD puts up a good fight as that may force the Blu-Ray camp to drop prices on some of their players.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

SQKid89 said:


> i will still support hd-dvd until the format is dust. i purchased my xbox 360 add-on back when it was the least expensive HD player at $169. if its being killed off, that means cheaper movies for me.
> i still wont jump on to bluray until players come down in price. if hd-dvd can make a stand-alone player for under $200, why can't bluray? the cheapest one on the market is still the ps3, and i'm still not on board with them until they have more than one or two first party games. on top of things, since the format still doesnt have a set standard, why by a player now if it can't support future releases?
> i still see red


Blu-Ray is more expensive because it's a totally new format so existing dvd manufacturing plants have to be substantially retrofitted to produce them. HD DVD is simply a normal DVD with tighter packed dots and dashes and a narrower laser so you just make minor changes at the plant. Less overhead means everything is cheaper to make. 



jddavid123 said:


> I really hope blu-ray wins because they have disney backing them and havent picked up the porn industry to my knowledge. Cant stand that HD DVD is open to them.... Thats why I want blu-ray to win! I do prefer HD DVD because the name Blu-ray is so frickin stupid, I mean think about it, where has the market gone with media, you have VHS, CD, VCD, DVD, and then Blu-ray ?? What the heck! thats really stupid IMO anyway. HD DVD makes more sense for names sake, but whatever. Either way the market for high-def is still very small and it may never take off since DVD players and DVD's are significantly cheaper and your average joe cant tell a difference between the two.


Blu-ray and HD are BOTH open to porn. The perception is Blu-ray wouldn't press porn. This is incorrect. Blu-ray will, and I believe already has, pressed porn. The difference is Blu-ray said they wouldn't press porn in a plant where they press other movies. Disney was worried about kids popping The Little Mermaid in the player and getting Debbie Does Dallas.


----------



## BlackLac (Aug 8, 2005)

I think some of you should do some reading on AVSforums about the diff. between HD and BluRay.  

As for me, I'll support HD until production stops.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Does it even matter in the end though? In a year dual players will probably be $129.  Besides, a few years from now, how do we know that optical will still be the standard? Especially with the advent of high capacity flash memory, hard drive based players, etc...


----------



## kaineilsen (Jan 31, 2007)

I bought my HD-DVD player at wally world for $94 bucks. Until blu-ray can offer me the same convenience at the same or better price point, I'm with HD-DVD.


----------



## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

MarkZ said:


> Does it even matter in the end though? In a year dual players will probably be $129.  Besides, a few years from now, how do we know that optical will still be the standard? Especially with the advent of high capacity flash memory, hard drive based players, etc...


A lot of people are developing a "theory" that Microsoft will support Toshiba in it's battle for HD-DVD until we have reached network capacities that make optical discs pointless and downloading the major form of distribution....but that's an awful long ways off.

Personally, I find optical discs extremely inconvenient, but I accept them as a reality at least for the next few years.


----------



## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

havok20222 said:


> Betamax was better... just remember that.


hahah we still have a beta player.. we had movies all the time on it when i was little. its quite a bit older than me and im 21


----------



## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

I think people saying BetaMax was technically superior are forgetting some of the limitations...most notably the shorter play/record time. That was a big problem at the time...I think it was 1976 when RCA released the first 4 hour long recorder that signalled the first big consumer shift towards VHS.


----------



## The Drake (Apr 3, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> Does it even matter in the end though? In a year dual players will probably be $129.  Besides, a few years from now, how do we know that optical will still be the standard? Especially with the advent of high capacity flash memory, hard drive based players, etc...


exactly! and not only that but just the improvement of quality is not enough to make people buy a whole new player and pay close to twice as much for movies. This "war" reminds me so much of the DVD +/- war that went on so long ago and now they both still exist...


----------



## MIAaron (May 10, 2005)

havok20222 said:


> Blu-Ray has more space... so what? It wasn't utilized.


Ah hem, there reason there was no HD audio on transformers was lack of disc space.  

Anyways, the original thread in this post was officially dismissed by Paramount.


----------



## BlackLac (Aug 8, 2005)

but can you actually tell the difference between DD+ and TrueHD? I can't. 

They both have larger disc' now, so it doesn't matter. It was only a matter of time, CD didn't start with an 80mb disc.


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Betamax players were heavy as shizzle.


----------



## MIAaron (May 10, 2005)

BlackLac said:


> but can you actually tell the difference between DD+ and TrueHD? I can't.
> 
> They both have larger disc' now, so it doesn't matter. It was only a matter of time, CD didn't start with an 80mb disc.


The point wasn't whether or not you could hear it or not, it was disc space. I guarantee if the disc space was available they would have put TrueHD on there. And just to add, I compared codecs on the NIN Besides You In Time BR and could hear a difference, although I don't remember if the older Dolby codec was DD+. 

CD's didn't start out as 80mb discs, but DVD's have already been out for what...a decade?


----------



## BlackLac (Aug 8, 2005)

I was just implying that DD+, while not being lossless, it is an HD audio format.


----------



## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

I find it funny that people are trying to "support" a format from the consumer perspective. It doesn't matter in the least what format you want if there are no movies on that format to watch!!!

It seems that the shift is toward blu-ray - personally, I couldn't care less what format gets selected, only that one does get selected. The performance difference at this level are so minor that 99% of consumers won't even be able to tell the difference. So I say, get on with it, kill one of the formats and make sure I don't have to buy dual player machines or keep two dvd players hooked up.


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

It's one of those cases in which competition in the market shows its worst. Format confusion and incompatibility is a bit inefficient to say least. These things should be regulated a bit. First maker that used an HD format should receive a patent income. His royalties should be down to earth, meaning any brand that choses to use it should pay a small, logical fee for a limited time. What is it now 7 years for a patent? 

This should go for memory card formats and other digital gear.


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> Does it even matter in the end though? In a year dual players will probably be $129.  Besides, a few years from now, how do we know that optical will still be the standard? Especially with the advent of high capacity flash memory, hard drive based players, etc...


Optical formats will still be cheaper than solid state for the next few years. 

You know, it amazes me that a lot of you guys drool and fawn over a $1500 source unit for your car, but don't hesitate to cheap out on a source player for your home. It's no different. You get what you pay for, and can get superior quality if you spend more. That's why Denon's $2500 Blu-Ray players they are releasing have a place in the market. I kinda feel like slapping any car "audiophile" who talks about $100 source units for their home.


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Here is a Variety article that was just released. Universal has pulled its exclusive HD-DVD plug as well. New Line and HBO followed their parent company Warner to the Blu-Ray camp.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978760.html?categoryid=20&cs=1


----------



## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

HD DVD was the first mArket ready technology..

Bluray has ghey baby steps on their players....(1.0, 1.1, 2.0, some players without internet streaming ability for updates) That means early adopters have nearly obsolete players that wont play their updates...not market ready from day one like HD DVD players which delivered on their interactive promises and ALL players can support it. The only player on the market right now that wont be obsolete is the PS3 which is 2.0 and can be upgraded with more easily with firmware.

The higher bitrate on Bluray is horse shyt- the only benefit to it is Sony's!!! They NEED the higher bitrate to get any sort of decent result encoding in their ancient MPEG2. Meanwhile where its at is the newer, superior VC-1 compression that can smash MPEG 2 using lower bitrate. Thats why theres no argument to Blurays space needs, with HD DVD you can fit more on a disk with higher quality compression, using less space.

Big reason its believed Warner made a move was because of the BDA incentives offered- BDA wanted to put a damper on Toshibas market ready 51GB multi layered disk thats ready this year before it took off-(thats what alot of studios where waiting for!) that would have hurt Blurays claim of higher disk space-they still offering 25GB disks lacking many features. Also BluRay players would need a nother VERSION of harware to play any disk over 50GB, that means people that think they one day will pop in their 100GB or 200GB(yeah right!) wont be able to do so on their Bluray player. With Sony you are forced to upgrade to another player and spend money buying a standalone player today.

HD DVD is REGION FREE!!! Want to watch some US Bluray exclusive disks on HD DVD? Import a German, French or Japanese copy of the movie with its English audio option with just a click on the menu. Cant do that with Bluray, they want to restrict and stranglehold you with DRM. Want to watch some movies from around the world? You can do that with HD DVD.

This so called war is not over yet, but sure dont look good for HD DVD. It seems Sony's strategy to shove Bluray down every Playstation fanboy's throat is the reason the markets responded the way they have to Bluray. Cant argue with 3.5Milluion PS3's in the US vs 1Million HD DVD standalone players, although the stansdalone HD DVD's are murdering the Bluray standalones on retail. You'd think with so many more players and studio support the movies would be selling alot better than 2-1 on Bluray- Warner sure isnt doing their math correctly, the market as a whole is spec of dust still.

Anyways, there are 400 HD DVD's out there in circulation with more coming. Paramount and Universal have officially stated they will continue to support HD DVD- so I'll copntinue to build up my collection and enjoy every SUPERB VC-1/1080p transfers on my $169 HD DVD player that has already paid for itself. Like mentioned, worse case scenario i pick up a Bluray PC drive or a combo player next year for $200 or under and enjoy the HD DVD's i can still collect until the very last one is pulled from the shelf. I wouldnt count it dead yet though, alot of things can happen from now until then- HD DVD had a great holiday season and its backers have lots of greenbacks to counter Sony's. 

Oh and wait...HD VMD red lazer disk players just hit the market at $199 Now theres 3 to tango.


----------



## BlackLac (Aug 8, 2005)

havok20222 said:


> Here is a Variety article that was just released. Universal has pulled its exclusive HD-DVD plug as well. New Line and HBO followed their parent company Warner to the Blu-Ray camp.
> 
> http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978760.html?categoryid=20&cs=1


Universal did not pull its plug, their contract expired. Don't expect Universal to leave until there's no one left.


----------



## smooth72 (Mar 23, 2006)

Block Buster movie rental has a contract to only rent Blue Ray. You are the betamax format picture quality was best, it will just like then who alliens it self with who will win. I have been in the business of making adult videos for 27 years and usually Sony wins. Oh buy the way the adult video are training, informational and PSA, o well. We use a High Def camera at work that uses Blue Ray to record too.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

havok20222 said:


> Optical formats will still be cheaper than solid state for the next few years.
> 
> You know, it amazes me that a lot of you guys drool and fawn over a $1500 source unit for your car, but don't hesitate to cheap out on a source player for your home. It's no different. You get what you pay for, and can get superior quality if you spend more. That's why Denon's $2500 Blu-Ray players they are releasing have a place in the market. I kinda feel like slapping any car "audiophile" who talks about $100 source units for their home.


Yeah, but what about those of us who feel that the $1500 source units in the car are pointless too? 

[Actually, they may not be anymore. With the processing power of some of the newer units, "high-end" for source units has a whole different appeal.]


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

smooth72 said:


> I have been in the business of making adult videos for 27 years and usually Sony wins.


Prove it. [Preferably with video, and preferably lesbians...]


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

I don't understand why they even use discs anymore. What's the point when you've got flash! Flash can hold tons of capacity and can be so small it's ridiculous. In the area I could hold 100 DVDs I could fit 1500 flash cards. No skipping, no scratching of the media. 

I vote flash, screw Bluray and HDDVD. They both bow down to flash.


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

BlackLac said:


> Universal did not pull its plug, their contract expired. Don't expect Universal to leave until there's no one left.


Read closer, they pulled EXCLUSIVE HD-DVD support. Meaning, they will start making both after May.



> I don't understand why they even use discs anymore. What's the point when you've got flash! Flash can hold tons of capacity and can be so small it's ridiculous. In the area I could hold 100 DVDs I could fit 1500 flash cards. No skipping, no scratching of the media.
> 
> I vote flash, screw Bluray and HDDVD. They both bow down to flash.


A 4Gb flash drive is like $50. Sure you can find them cheaper, but still. A blu-ray disc has the capability to do 100Gb in dual layer on both sides. Those are $30.

How is flash cheaper?


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

kimokalihi said:


> I don't understand why they even use discs anymore. What's the point when you've got flash! Flash can hold tons of capacity and can be so small it's ridiculous. In the area I could hold 100 DVDs I could fit 1500 flash cards. No skipping, no scratching of the media.
> 
> I vote flash, screw Bluray and HDDVD. They both bow down to flash.


That's what I was saying. Flash makes a lot more sense in general, but the prices still need to fall before it's feasible.

But using the music industry as a model (same difference, only it requires much smaller file sizes), flash doesn't appear to be on the horizon there either. But downloading has forced them to adopt other measures (eg. itunes), so I think we're beginning to see the end of an era for optical in that market.

Even though flash makes plenty of sense, I think we'll probably first see hard-drive and web-based services for movies. For example, we're already starting to see movie download/viewing websites, and even cable companies are getting into the mix offering a virtual movie library. As soon as internet bandwidth gets to the point where downloading movies with minimal compression is commonplace, only then will we see a major market shift. 

Just my two cents.


----------



## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

havok20222 said:


> Read closer, they pulled EXCLUSIVE HD-DVD support. Meaning, they will start making both after May.



One can speculate so much, truth is nothing official has been decalred by either Paramount or universal other than they remain to support HD DVD.
Theres lots of viral spin in the media yet there are only 2 official statements out there to read from.

Did Universal have any sort of exclusive contract with HD DVD to begin with? I dont recall ever reading that. They simply picked HD DVD from day one.
http://www.betanews.com/article/Universal_Were_staying_with_HD_DVD/1199974983


----------



## smooth72 (Mar 23, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> Prove it. [Preferably with video, and preferably lesbians...]


Adult training tapes are not very exciting.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> Even though flash makes plenty of sense, I think we'll probably first see hard-drive and web-based services for movies. For example, we're already starting to see movie download/viewing websites, and even cable companies are getting into the mix offering a virtual movie library. As soon as internet bandwidth gets to the point where downloading movies with minimal compression is commonplace, only then will we see a major market shift.
> 
> Just my two cents.



I agree, but usually the go with compression over quality. I do have to admit, I found it a nice extra that my Netflix account allows me to download some movies and stream them right through the internet. HTPC FTW!

My goal is to put all my DVD's on a hard drive and have a library of them that way. I'm not too concerned about supder duper picture quality. If it looks good, sounds good and doesn't degrade I'm a happy camper.


----------



## dtviewer (Dec 18, 2006)

smooth72 said:


> Block Buster movie rental has a contract to only rent Blue Ray. You are the betamax format picture quality was best, it will just like then who alliens it self with who will win. I have been in the business of making adult videos for 27 years and usually Sony wins. Oh buy the way the adult video are training, informational and PSA, o well. We use a High Def camera at work that uses Blue Ray to record too.



I wish I could have understood at least a couple of the sentences in your post 

What does "you are the betamax format picture quality was best" mean?
What does "it will just like then who alliens it self with who will win" mean?
(Was the movie aliens shot in hi-def? )
"buy the way"?

Thanks, I have a headache now............


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

durwood said:


> I agree, but usually the go with compression over quality. I do have to admit, I found it a nice extra that my Netflix account allows me to download some movies and stream them right through the internet. HTPC FTW!
> 
> My goal is to put all my DVD's on a hard drive and have a library of them that way. I'm not too concerned about supder duper picture quality. If it looks good, sounds good and doesn't degrade I'm a happy camper.


Tell that to Apple TV. COMPLETE FLOP.

Apple TV was a great idea with two major problems. 1.) Cost. 2.) No good audio codecs.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

durwood said:


> I agree, but usually the go with compression over quality. I do have to admit, I found it a nice extra that my Netflix account allows me to download some movies and stream them right through the internet. HTPC FTW!


That's true, but I think the popularity of mp3 (crappy ones, too) and sat radio demonstrates that most people are willing to accept some degree of compression. Hell, even the HD broadcast is compressed, but most people don't really mind or notice.

With the advent of h.264, and the continual improvement of other compression algorithms, bandwidth, and drive/flash space, I think it's becoming more feasible too. You can even download (ssshhhhhh!) 1080p movies at ~4GB per hour of film that are compressed while maintaining resolution and pretty good bitrate. This technology will only get better.



> My goal is to put all my DVD's on a hard drive and have a library of them that way. I'm not too concerned about supder duper picture quality. If it looks good, sounds good and doesn't degrade I'm a happy camper.


That's basically my setup. Now that big hard drives are coming down in price, it's pretty easy to do. If you're not familiar with XBMC on the XBOX, check it out. IMO, the XBOX is the ideal hard-drive based media player for non-HD content, and it's cheap too. Even has component outputs to give you 480p. The only knock on it is that the processor has difficulty with HD stuff. Once the Xbox360 is hacked, that problem will be solved.

I compress my movies down to about 1GB each without having to touch the resolution one bit. So a 500GB drive handles ~500 movies. There is, however, a detectable difference between the compressed version and the original -- usually on surfaces like walls and backgrounds.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

I've briefly looked at the XBMC stuff and maybe later I'll convert my xbox over. Too many other projects in gear at the moment.

You compressing with DIVX or XVID? What's your prefered file format? I was think 1-2Gb per movie. Right now I have a 500Gb drive and plan to add another when that fills up.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

durwood said:


> I've briefly looked at the XBMC stuff and maybe later I'll convert my xbox over. Too many other projects in gear at the moment.
> 
> You compressing with DIVX or XVID? What's your prefered file format? I was think 1-2Gb per movie. Right now I have a 500Gb drive and plan to add another when that fills up.


Neither. I tend to use h.264 (aka AVC). It's a better algorithm than Xvid and Divx, but takes considerably more processing power to *decode*. That's a bit of a problem, because the Xbox doesn't have much processing power, so a few of the h.264 features that make h.264 better can't be used. So, in the end, I'm probably not gaining a whole lot than what I would have using Xvid. But a 2 hour movie goes about 1.2GB for me, so 1GB/each is a good estimate for the whole lot.

Xvid vs. Divx is a debate that usually gets nowhere. I think more people are using Xvid these days, but I haven't read that there's a substantial difference in quality.

Interestingly, one of last year's Xbox360 updates allowed it to be able to play h.264 files in an mp4 container. And the Xbox360 has a pretty good processor in it, so you wouldn't have to hold back on any compression features (and can probably even do HD content). I haven't been able to get it to work correctly though, but admittedly I haven't tried hard. Besides, most of the movies I usually watch aren't in HD anyway, and I hate microsoft's stupid streaming software too.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

cool. I'll go read up on converting them to H264


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

durwood said:


> cool. I'll go read up on converting them to H264


The doom9 forum is probably the most informative for that sort of thing.

I use megui for the task, which is free software but IMO the best and the most configurable. It takes a little bit getting used to because the conversion is done in multiple stages, but once you choose your regular strategy you can save those settings into a "one-click" configuration. It comes with "profiles" that give you various presets, so you don't have to know what every option does. You just choose a profile that best fits your needs.

Nero recode is also popular. And there are a couple others (eg. "fairusewizard", "autogk", etc), but they're not as configurable as megui.

If you need any help with it, feel free to shoot me a PM.


----------



## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

I would say that Xvid is more common now than Divx...but I prefer h264 and it's popularity is starting to grow now, too.


----------



## dtviewer (Dec 18, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> The doom9 forum is probably the most informative for that sort of thing.
> ---snipped for space---
> 
> If you need any help with it, feel free to shoot me a PM.


Rookie question here. Why do you do any of that converting? Is it to save space? 
I am in the process of putting a computer in the living room to use Vista media center as my front end and having it networked to my bedroom computer. On the bedroom pc I have a couple of 1tb drives that I have put most of my dvd's on using dvd shrink. (Video-TS format, About 4 gigs a movie).


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

dtviewer said:


> Rookie question here. Why do you do any of that converting? Is it to save space?
> I am in the process of putting a computer in the living room to use Vista media center as my front end and having it networked to my bedroom computer. On the bedroom pc I have a couple of 1tb drives that I have put most of my dvd's on using dvd shrink. (Video-TS format, About 4 gigs a movie).


Yeah, it's to save space. An uncompressed ISO from a DVD9 will be several GB (depending on how long the movie is, etc). Usually upwards of 5GB. You can compress it down to about 20% its original size with the right software. The downside is that you lose menus, and if you don't use an mkv container, you'll also lose chapter marks (although software players, including XBMC, can skip ahead still).

DVDShrink is great software for stripping out useless stuff and compressing from DVD9 down to DVD5. Its compression algorithm is good, but not great. You definitely want to do two-pass encoding with it if you do use it as a compressor. Also, to make things easy, I'd turn them into ISOs for hard-drive storage rather than leaving them as VIDEO_TS directories. I just find it easier to deal with single files, and many players (eg. mplayer, vlc, and so forth) can play the raw ISO.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Paramount released a statement yesterday saying there were NOT jumping ship to BR. Sweet.


----------



## SQKid89 (Feb 22, 2007)

Good to see my HD-DVD player will still see some releases in the near future. If I were to go "purple", I think I'd be more likely to pick up a used PS3, as they are still the best supported and serve a purpose other than just movies. I personally don't have the ability to display 1080p, nor do I have a setup that supports the HD audio, so a dedicated player gives me no benefits.

I can only hope Toshiba has something up their sleeves to keep things interesting for a bit longer


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

SQKid89 said:


> Good to see my HD-DVD player will still see some releases in the near future. If I were to go "purple", I think I'd be more likely to pick up a used PS3, as they are still the best supported and serve a purpose other than just movies. I personally don't have the ability to display 1080p, nor do I have a setup that supports the HD audio, so a dedicated player gives me no benefits.
> 
> I can only hope Toshiba has something up their sleeves to keep things interesting for a bit longer


True 1080i or 720p isnt a benefit? You certainly lost me on that one.


----------



## SQKid89 (Feb 22, 2007)

both HD-DVD and Bluray can display 720p no problem. My xbox add-on will do 720p without issue. all HD-DVD & BD players will do 720p/1080i, and my current display is 720p, so why spend money on premium player when I wont get all of the benefits of 1080p?


----------



## smooth72 (Mar 23, 2006)

dtviewer said:


> I wish I could have understood at least a couple of the sentences in your post
> 
> What does "you are the betamax format picture quality was best" mean?
> What does "it will just like then who alliens it self with who will win" mean?
> ...


 Sorry for the headache, I wrote it fast and did not reread. 
It should of been: you are correct the Betamax format picture quality was the best, over VHS.
and ... it will be just like then, who aligns there self with who, wins. Another words if you get an agreement from all or most of the studios that format will win out, not necessary the best format.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The problem with Betamax wasn't that no one would align with it. The problem was Sony wouldn't license it to anyone else in an effort to be the sole supplier so they could control pricing and corner the market. I'd say it backfired. Sony did something very similar with MD as well.


----------



## jperryss (Mar 15, 2006)

SQKid89 said:


> I can only hope Toshiba has something up their sleeves to keep things interesting for a bit longer


They do 
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/14/hd-dvd-fires-back-slashes-hardware-and-software-prices/


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

jperryss said:


> They do
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/14/hd-dvd-fires-back-slashes-hardware-and-software-prices/


Yay... a going out of business liquidation sale! Yay.

Blu-Ray titles are also 50% off on Amazon. Also, as an audio guy there is no HD-DVD player to date that supports DTS-HD MA


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

havok20222 said:


> Yay... a going out of business liquidation sale! Yay.
> 
> Blu-Ray titles are also 50% off on Amazon. Also, as an audio guy there is no HD-DVD player to date that supports DTS-HD MA


And who actually listens to music that way? I mean really. I just don't see the benefit to multi-channel music in the home. Who actually sits down in a perfectly set up room and listens to music?

On another note, what's with everyone taking sides like it's high school football? Yay, "our" side won. Whoopee, how is it "your" side? What's the big deal if BD beats HD or vice versa?


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> And who actually listens to music that way? I mean really. I just don't see the benefit to multi-channel music in the home. Who actually sits down in a perfectly set up room and listens to music?
> 
> On another note, what's with everyone taking sides like it's high school football? Yay, "our" side won. Whoopee, how is it "your" side? What's the big deal if BD beats HD or vice versa?


1.) I wasn't talking about music, I was talking about movies. I listen to ALL my movies in surround, and DTS flat out sounds better.

2.) http://gizmodo.com/344655/porn-studio-ditches-hd-dvd-for-blu+ray-in-2008

3.) Why do I take sides? Because I want to see a decision, thats why. I could care less who wins, so long as SOMEONE does. I don't favor one over the other, I'm just happy to see an end in sight. I want an HD player of some sort within the next 6 months, and i don't have endless money to toss around. I want to make sure that when i do purchase one, that I am able to make an intelligent buying decision that will last me a while. The format prevents an easy decision from consumers, as well as prevents buying. We can't move forward on improvements if we don't even have a format to improve upon. As a consumer you should concern yourself with seeing an end to the format war as well.


----------



## fej (Feb 8, 2006)

I just cannot understand (well unless you are a Sony fanboi) why anyone would want a single manufacturer to control the HD "video" market. Competition is the single largest influence upon pricing for ANYTHING. Sony has been trying for years to have a proprietary format, Beta, Minidisc, hmm I know there are 2-3 more which were tremendous flops and very short lived. 

I mean seriously even 5-8 years after the Beta vs VHS battle panned out, studios were STILL trying to get $40-80 a piece for their "tapes", until places like Best Buy, Circuit city, walmart etc. started discounting them.

Point being is that the level of quality is not vastly superior to HD DVD, (and IMO HD DVD has more advantages). Hell there wouldn't even BE a war if Sony did not have 3 million PS3's in action, because no one would have bought their overpriced players, which in turn would have pushed all of the studios to the alternative.

I am still happy with my upconverting Oppo player, and I am still cheering for Sony to loose again, otherwise I might just skip this generation of video formats and wait for the next one


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

havok20222 said:


> 1.) I wasn't talking about music, I was talking about movies. I listen to ALL my movies in surround, and DTS flat out sounds better.


Ahh, agreed. I MUCH prefer DTS.



> 3.) Why do I take sides? Because I want to see a decision, thats why. I could care less who wins, so long as SOMEONE does. I don't favor one over the other, I'm just happy to see an end in sight. I want an HD player of some sort within the next 6 months, and i don't have endless money to toss around. I want to make sure that when i do purchase one, that I am able to make an intelligent buying decision that will last me a while. The format prevents an easy decision from consumers, as well as prevents buying. We can't move forward on improvements if we don't even have a format to improve upon. As a consumer you should concern yourself with seeing an end to the format war as well.


I agree an end would be nice, but since my PS3 has a BD player and the 360 HD DVD add-on was only $150 I could care less if there is EVER a winner since I'm covered either way.


----------



## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

fej said:


> I just cannot understand (well unless you are a Sony fanboi) why anyone would want a single manufacturer to control the HD "video" market. Competition is the single largest influence upon pricing for ANYTHING. Sony has been trying for years to have a proprietary format, Beta, Minidisc, hmm I know there are 2-3 more which were tremendous flops and very short lived.
> 
> I mean seriously even 5-8 years after the Beta vs VHS battle panned out, studios were STILL trying to get $40-80 a piece for their "tapes", until places like Best Buy, Circuit city, walmart etc. started discounting them.
> 
> ...


Sony WITH help came up with the format. It's by no means proprietary. 

Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Sharp, Philips, Denon, Samsung, Dell, HP, and about 160 or so other companies. There are a TON of backing companies to the format, all of which can develop their own upgrades, provide input and add to the format. 

HD-DVD is being pushed by.... Toshiba and Microsoft mainly. Sure there are others, but it doesn't have anywhere close to the manufacturer or film industry support. 

Oh.... and by the way, "fanboi" is the gayest and most emo word ever formulated. Please do not use it again. That said, if you actually read some depth into my posts you may realize that I could care less who wins the format war. Sure, Blu-Ray has more space, but for all intents and purposes they are the same. I don't care who wins as long as SOMEONE wins so I can buy one. Also, if ALL manufacturers and studios are on board with a single format, prices will continue to drop and improvements will come at a faster rate. That is what I care about.


----------



## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

I just got an email from netflix telling me that they are dropping their HD movies and sticking with blu-ray.


----------



## Zakerid (Apr 30, 2007)

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9869591-1.html?tag=recentPosts

best buy jumping on the blue ray bandwagon as well


----------



## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

bobditts said:


> I just got an email from netflix telling me that they are dropping their HD movies and sticking with blu-ray.


Yeah, bummer. I canceled my subscription based on the news being thats the sole reason i used Netflix to begin with. 

Well Blockbuster online and a few others still carry them, on to giving someone else my business.


----------



## BlackLac (Aug 8, 2005)

Zakerid said:


> http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9869591-1.html?tag=recentPosts
> 
> best buy jumping on the blue ray bandwagon as well


They've always been that way where I live.


----------



## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

Seems like Toshiba has pulled out. There could be some great deals on HD players (which from what I understand are also great upconverting DVD players as well).

Juan


----------



## AudioBob (May 21, 2007)

The report that I read said that Toshiba may make an announcement as soon as tomorrow. I have a Toshiba HD DVD Player that I purchased in November for $99 so I don't feel too bad. I think that I have 15 titles total. I am going to go to Best Buy and buy some more if they blow them out.

I think that both the video and audio quality of HD DVD is really good. I have been holding off buying a Blu-Ray player for quite some time. Once they hit a decent price I will pick one of them up as well.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

AudioBob said:


> The report that I read said that Toshiba may make an announcement as soon as tomorrow.


If this site is true then anyone and everyone who owns HD DVD drives are going to get burned by this (assuming you were looking forward to the continuation and not just having it as a regular ol' upscale DVD unit):
http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/18/toshiba-expected-to-announce-death-of-hd-dvd-tomorrow-stop-sale/


----------



## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

its true. Its been all over the news.


----------



## Zakerid (Apr 30, 2007)

http://www.yahoo.com/s/812708


----------



## tr0y_audi0 (Feb 13, 2007)

I got the pioneer 94's on sale  $
the 95 is $ but my 3rd shipment has not shown yet..
Let me know what you need PDP-6010 ?
peace Troy


----------



## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/19/technology/toshiba.ap/index.htm?postversion=2008021904


----------



## Licinius (Jan 2, 2008)

AudioBob said:


> The report that I read said that Toshiba may make an announcement as soon as tomorrow. I have a Toshiba HD DVD Player that I purchased in November for $99 so I don't feel too bad. I think that I have 15 titles total. I am going to go to Best Buy and buy some more if they blow them out.
> 
> I think that both the video and audio quality of HD DVD is really good. I have been holding off buying a Blu-Ray player for quite some time. Once they hit a decent price I will pick one of them up as well.


I completely agree... quality wise, the formats are really a toss-up, sometimes they're the exact same transfer even. I also bought a ~$100 player, and I don't feel like I'm losing in the deal at all, the movies are dirt cheap, and going to be even cheaper which means I win.


----------



## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

I was one of the idiots that got the $500 player from Toshiba when it came out, thinking that there is no way based on Sony's "got to be different" track record with beta etc. that they would come out on top. I guess 3rd time is a charm.....well I have a cheap hd dvd for sale


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

BigRed said:


> I was one of the idiots that got the $500 player from Toshiba when it came out, thinking that there is no way based on Sony's "got to be different" track record with beta etc. that they would come out on top. I guess 3rd time is a charm.....well I have a cheap hd dvd for sale


Keep your HD DVD player, it's a MUCH better upconverter than any of the BD players.


----------

