# Need a HT sub....again



## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Some of you might remember my little quest to build this interesting home theater sub back during the summer. If you don't...here is what I'm talking about.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-other-audio/39804-building-another-home-sub-suggestions.html

Long story short, Image Dynamics sent me a bum driver and I lost my cool and destroyed half the enclosure after taking the driver out. 

I'm back on the horse though and I want to finish this thing bad. After the incident with this huge build this summer I moved on to a pair of Peerless 12's in a sealed application. I love them. They are phenomenal for listening to music and I really couldn't ask for more; while listening to music...

As you read above, I only destroyed half the project and I actually kept the part that was really hard to make...bonus. I'd like to finish this old project for the sake of completion and also for a little home theater fun when I want to take down the freakin walls in my apartment.



Bottom line: I have 500RMS at 4ohms to play with and a little over 3 cubes MAX if I need it. Since the enclosure is a pipe I can just cut it shorter for a smaller enclosure. The sub has to be a 12 to fit the other half of the project. I'm looking for a very sturdy woofer with deep extension and great SQ. I like the Peerless 12's I have but I'd like to try something new.

Any suggestions guys?


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Here are some pictures of the idea as it went along before the train wreck....


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

Shiva-X from DIYcable.com

i have one in 3.2 cubes sealed on 500 watts and it is great for music and gaming. i still need more woofage for certain movies though. i guess my room is to big for a single sealed 12.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

In the home you really do need to go ported. Steven I'd see if you can somehow effectively port that pipe. As for a sub I can't say for sure what would be best in your application.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

What about IB? Do you live in a place where cutting into drywall and venting elsewhere into the house would be conceivable?

Otherwise, I'd say ported, too. Try to find a sub that can play well ported in the 20's. That's just my opinion, though.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

tcguy85 said:


> Shiva-X from DIYcable.com
> 
> i have one in 3.2 cubes sealed on 500 watts and it is great for music and gaming. i still need more woofage for certain movies though. i guess my room is to big for a single sealed 12.


I'll check it out.


Hillbilly SQ said:


> In the home you really do need to go ported. Steven I'd see if you can somehow effectively port that pipe. As for a sub I can't say for sure what would be best in your application.


Yeah, the port is on the top. I should have stated that. It's a 4" precision flared port.


bikinpunk said:


> What about IB? Do you live in a place where cutting into drywall and venting elsewhere into the house would be conceivable?
> 
> Otherwise, I'd say ported, too. Try to find a sub that can play well ported in the 20's. That's just my opinion, though.


I can't cut into drywall or anything because I'm still in an apartment since I'm a student. 


What do you guys think about an SSA Icon? I've heard they are low end monsters and sound pretty damn good. But then again they are priced near the RL-p so then that is also a possibility as well...


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> In the home you really do need to go ported.


No you don't.

In your shoes, my choice would be between the Shiva-X, JBL W12GTi, and Aura NS12-794-4A. And I'd likely end up with the first, because it's so much cheaper.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

That Shiva X is an animal and looks very convincing. But at 4.3 cubic feet for a "small" ported design.....I'll have to think about it. I don't even know if I have that much pipe left.


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## toyrunner (Sep 1, 2008)

TC - 2000 Ive got for sale will be a good fit.


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## Get_Zwole (Nov 15, 2008)

I didnt go all out on a sub but i got an elemental designs that sounds great for just over 380 shipped i think. I would just get in trouble with that much sub in an appartment.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> That Shiva X is an animal and looks very convincing. But at 4.3 cubic feet for a "small" ported design.....I'll have to think about it. I don't even know if I have that much pipe left.


yup, she's an animal.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

I'll have to model up what it looks like in a smaller box because there is just no way I want the column to be that tall. I think 4.2 cubes is like 6 feet of pipe! I have no idea how I would even move such a thing. The sound splinter website, looking at the 12" RL-p says 2.5 cu ft net volume vented, Fb = 16.5 Hz. That volume is a lot easier to work with but I'll be paying out the ass for it. And that port will have to be retarded long.

I'll be home tomorrow and see how much of the pipe I have left.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Autiophile said:


> Let me know if you decide on the w12gti. I've got a couple on hand that aren't being used at the moment.
> 
> The ported box I built was 3.4 cubes. You could get away with 3.0 if you adjust the tuning and use a little EQ.
> 
> ...


Like I said, I only have 500RMS to work with and powering the other two Peerless subs at the same time is out of the question since I only have that one plate amp. (O-Audio plate amp that runs like a freakin champ)

Really, this sub is just a home theater sub. I'll put some music on it every once in a while but movies is what it will be mainly used for. Tunning will be stupid low.

How well do those W12gti's handle abuse?


PS: I think the Maelstrom is too much money for me


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

I just realized that the W12GTI is a dual 6 ohm coil configuration so that wont work for me...


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

I was looking at the passive radiator specs for the Shiva X and it looked promising till I saw that they PR they recommend is a 15" one and they don't make a 12". I just can't fit that in the pipe; geometry does not allow...


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

The Peerless 830847 looks appealing although I said I wanted to try something different. It can be wired to 4 ohms, it's a 12, 92db efficient, and fits in a box about what my project can handle. My only worry though is that 12.5mm of Xmax is not enough for a single ported HT sub.
Peerless 830847 12" XXLS Dual Voice Coil Subwoofer from Madisound

I modeled up the Shiva X and it doesn't do well with a smaller ported enclosure.....damn


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Hearing eD mentioned reminded me of the 13ov2. Heard one in 1.25 sealed and downfired in a truck like mine off a memphis mcd500 and the low end was unreal. No telling what would happen in an actual room in a low tuned ported box off that power.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Ok....I have all types of good news.


I went out and checked and I have a 3ft 8" section of the pipe left and a 7ft 6" section as well. So I can make en enclosure as large as 5.88 cubes if I needed to. So that means I can count the Shiva X back in the running as a suitor. Autiophile, thanks for the info on the GTI, sounds like it would do just fine on my amp.

I'm really not interested in running more than 1 set of subs at once so I don't think I really need another amp. More power on either sub project would be great but I don't really need it. Like I said, I'll be using the Peerless Twins for music and the giant Column of Doom for movies or just to get nasty during a big party that will likely leave me looking for a new home.

I checked the base to see my maximum measurement for the outer diameter of the sub and I came up with 12.5". That means the GTI will fit fine and the Shiva X will barely fit. I know this for sure because the IDMAX was 12.5" and it fit. (remember, this was designed for an IDMAX)

So I've got the Shiva X and the GTI fighting for the win. Honestly, I think the Shiva X gets my vote from what I've read so far. I do, however, like the efficiency of the GTI. What do you guys think?

Here are some pictures of the finished base that the enclosure will be supported by...


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Autiophile said:


> I'd just model them up with 500 watts and see which gives you the highest spl at the frequency you desire. I'm guessing shiva will go lower but not match the spl of the gti
> 
> My enclosure was tuned to 24hz for the gti. You might want to tune lower for the ulf stuff in movies. You really won't go wrong with either. If you decide you want a gti let me know. I'm personally going to order 4 dpl-15s or ae ib-15s so I won't be using at least one of my gtis any longer.


I gotta get out of here in a sec. I'll model them up when I get home and hopefully that will help me decide.


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## quakerroatmeal (Aug 21, 2008)

Just curious, why do have a HT in an apartment? Unless your apt is really that lenient, or you have nobody living around you. Hardly you can use it at it's potential. Just get a svs-ultra and be done =P. It's only 1600$


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

quakerroatmeal said:


> Just curious, why do have a HT in an apartment? Unless your apt is really that lenient, or you have nobody living around you. Hardly you can use it at it's potential.


I was wondering the same thing. Hell I had a set of Urei 809A's in an apt and every neighbor hated me and I'm not that loud of a listener!


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

you can't use the O-audio amp with a ported box.

you WILL run into a lot of problems with over excursion. the o-audio amp boosts right before the subsonic filter(whichever setting you choose). stick to a sealed sub with that amp.

you might be ok using it with it on the 25hz setting but then there is no point in porting it.

have you looked at the pdf file on the o-audio amp where it graphs out the response at each subsonic filter setting?

model some things up in winisd and then EQ in about 3-5db for whichever subsonic filter setting. watch what it does to the excursion.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

tcguy85 said:


> you can't use the O-audio amp with a ported box.
> 
> you WILL run into a lot of problems with over excursion. the o-audio amp boosts right before the subsonic filter(whichever setting you choose).


Ummmmm, that's standard protocol for Vented Box EQ


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

chad said:


> Ummmmm, that's standard protocol for Vented Box EQ


i don't think so. 

when using the 20hz setting its adding about 5db centered at 20hz (almost 4x the power).

then use a box tuning of 16 - 18hz(which seems to be a pretty common tuning on an HT sub), and then have it not start to very slowly roll off (electrically) until 12hz sounds like a bad idea. 

plot it out in winisd, it's bad news. hell, even in my sealed box it's bad when watching certain movies using it on the 20hz setting. i could totally destroy my sub with this amp watching war of the worlds at less than reference level.

here is the pdf file where they show the response: http://www.oaudio.com/docs/manual_v1_5.pdf

this amp is really only made to work with a sub in a medium to small sealed box.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

tcguy85 said:


> i don't think so.


I think so, Vented Box EQ has a boost right before the subsonic, Remember that the running freq is not a dead shelf from hell, it has a Q too, and also note that the driver is at MINIMUM excursion at the tuning freq. Do some research on Vented Box EQ 

I'm not saying that the boost is right but it DOES get you more grunt for free.

Research my friend, research.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

chad said:


> I think so, Vented Box EQ has a boost right before the subsonic, Remember that the running freq is not a dead shelf from hell, it has a Q too, and also note that the driver is at MINIMUM excursion at the tuning freq. Do some research on Vented Box EQ
> 
> I'm not saying that the boost is right but it DOES get you more grunt for free.
> 
> Research my friend, research.


i did my research. this amp will not work well with a ported box. take a look at the link i posted, its whole ton of boost. i have read numerous threads on this subject and this is what everybody said. i also used winisd to show the results. it will not work well at all. 

i haven't even mentioned what it will do to the in room response. my current setup is a single shiva in 3.3 sealed with the o-audio amp. i have a flat response out to 20hz, and it is only 3db down at 12hz. i have 50hz cut a bit to reduce a room node, and i have the amp on the 20hz setting. that right there proves it's a whole lotta boost. 

so using a ported box according to winisd without even taking the extra EQ into account i'd have about 10 - 12db more at 20hz. then add in the extra 5db at 20hz and i'd have a huge 12-17db peak at 20hz. 

plot it out in winisd, it's sends the excursion through the roof and and depending on your room you could end up with a huge peak in the low end.

even in the application notes from the guy who made the Shiva-x it's highly recommended to not use the o-audio amp with this sub in a ported box. this sub is one of the higher xmax subs out there.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

My bad, that will not work, I was expecting an amplifier output rise, then a drop, as per standard vented box EQ. That's more of an "assisted" EQ which is used like a bag-end enclosure, etc. 

Although i have heard that this feature is deflatable, these got popular a year ot two ago here and someone figured out how to defeat the EQ.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

yea, this is what i came up with when plotting it out, and this is being generous and saying that there is a 3rd order high-pass set at 18hz (but it's probably lower and shallower). i'm not really sure what order crossover is used and where it begins and i'm also not sure what Q the EQ boost is but i set the EQ boost at a Q of 2 so that also may be generous as it could be more like 1 or 1.5. who knows, but the 5db boost centered at 20hz is just going to be to much.










so it looks like most subs will be pushed waaayy past xmax with this amp in a ported box.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Autiophile said:


> Italyn, do you have external eq that you can use to offset the issue with the amp boost?


There has GOT to be a way to defeat that EQ, i SWEAR it was posted here or on PE's site or something similar when they were wildly popular.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

chad said:


> There has GOT to be a way to defeat that EQ, i SWEAR it was posted here or on PE's site or something similar when they were wildly popular.


i have never seen anything about defeating it. but yes, there has got to be a way. it can be done some how i am sure. just need to know what to mess with on the boards.

i have seen a few threads and a how to on PE's website about their Dayton amps and how to change the subsonic filter value. but the PE/Dayton amps don't have a boost down low like these do.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

Autiophile said:


> Makes sense to me that he should be able to defeat it if he's willing to crack the amp open. If he already has something like a BFD or DEQ he could avoid messing with the amp altogether.


yea, the back of the amp is already open. there is no case around it or anything. everything is right there. we would just need to know what to bypass or change.

if you have an external EQ, then problem solved, but this is an issue that does need to be addressed. it's not something to be overlooked as it will create a problem. 

like i was saying before, it's even creating a problem for me using it in a mid sized sealed box. i have to be very careful when watching a movie with a decent amount of low end in it. it's either clipping in that area or driving my sub past it's xmax(i'm not really sure what it is). i guess in my case i could add a second identical setup and get some headroom, but even then an extra 6db won't be enough for certain demanding movies in my sized room.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Sorry guys...I was at a team dinner.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

There is a knob on the far right of the amp that is for the level of the EQ. 0 is the left and -12 is on the right. As far as I understand it, if I set the paremetric EQ at 20 and then turn that knob to -12 wont that lower the response there and keep things safe? You guys are freakin me out.

EDIT: I did a test with the Peerless Twins and that's exactly what that knob does. I can bring down the response where I set the parametric EQ. I don't understand what the problem is here....


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)




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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> Sorry guys...I was at a team dinner.
> 
> 
> I've read what you guys have been talking about and I'm not sure I really understand the problem. There is a boost at 20hz no matter what the parametric EQ is at? Looking at the first graph it looks like setting the subsonic filter to 20hz would make the roll off just fine.


if you use the 20hz setting it boosts about 5db centered at 20hz, then VERY slowly falls off. to slowly for a ported box on movies, thats for sure.

if you use the 16hz setting it looks like it boosts about 7db at 16hz then falls off even slower. even worse for a lot of movies.

the 12hz setting is completely useless. about a 10-12bd boost by 10hz. 

you might be able to use it in a ported box on the 25hz setting if you're careful. looks like it falls off a good 15db by 10hz.

a normal sub sonic filter is down 3db at whatever you set it at. set it at 20hz, and 20hz is the -3db point electrically. this amp boosts it a lot then it slowly falls off quite a bit after that. 

if you look at (and fully understand) how much low end content is in certain movies you'll see the problem. i didn't realize how bad it was until i tried watching war of the worlds which has some severe low end and will take one hell of a sub to play at reference level. 

it will probably be fine on most music but that amp can destroy a ported sub on certain movies.

the graph i posted explains it all. that is a shiva-x in 8 cubes tuned to 18hz with the o-audio amp on the 20hz setting.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> There is a knob on the far right of the amp that is for the level of the EQ. 0 is the left and -12 is on the right. As far as I understand it, if I set the paremetric EQ at 20 and then turn that knob to -12 wont that lower the response there and keep things safe? You guys are freakin me out.


yes you could do that. if you set that knob to 20hz and make a cut there it will help. 

but in my case i have the EQ set at 50hz and at about -9db to reduce a nasty room node that i have at 50hz. you will probably also have a problem area that could use some help and it would suck to have to use that nice EQ to fix the 20hz problem instead of a different problem.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

tcguy85 said:


> if you use the 20hz setting it boosts about 5db centered at 20hz, then VERY slowly falls off. to slowly for a ported box on movies, thats for sure.
> 
> if you use the 16hz setting it looks like it boosts about 7db at 16hz then falls off even slower. even worse for a lot of movies.
> 
> ...


I think I get what you are saying. So lets say I have the subsonic set at 25 and I use the PEQ to lower the intensity at 20hz; would that help? Also, I'd be doing a 4.3 cubic foot enclosure with a single 4" port tuned to 19 as their sheet suggests.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

tcguy85 said:


> yes you could do that. if you set that knob to 20hz and make a cut there it will help.
> 
> but in my case i have the EQ set at 50hz and at about -9db to reduce a nasty room node that i have at 50hz. you will probably also have a problem area that could use some help and it would suck to have to use that nice EQ to fix the 20hz problem instead of a different problem.


Ignore my above post....sorry I didn't read this post when I had written it.


I agree that it would suck to have to use that function for that purpose but I might have to for the time being. I'm fairly careful and doubt I'll even use this thing to it's full potential till I get my own place/house so I doubt it would be a big problem for me. 

I have another plate amp too if I need to use that one. It's the ED LT550 plate amp that I have stuck in that ported ED13Ov2 sub that I made. I haven't pulled it out only because I love seeing that sub as a unit and don't want to tear it apart and sell it for parts.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> I think I get what you are saying. So lets say I have the subsonic set at 25 and I use the PEQ to lower the intensity at 20hz; would that help? Also, I'd be doing a 4.3 cubic foot enclosure with a single 4" port tuned to 19 as their sheet suggests.


i plotted it out in winisd. it's close but it looks ok.

from their graph it looks like on the 25hz setting that it's back down by 3db at 20hz. so i guess you could say the subsonic filter is at 20hz being that it's back down 3 at that point.

here is an excursion graph of it in 4.3 at 19 on 500 watts. 2nd order high-pass at 20hz, and a 3db parametric EQ boost with a Q of 2 centered at 25hz.









i'm no expert, but i'd call it borderline safe. also i'm not sure what crossover slope and and EQ Q would be most accurate to use, it's just a guess, but should give you a good idea of where you're at.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

^That looks pretty good, not perfect but manageable. Do you think if I made the enclosure just a touch smaller and tuned to 20hz that would help manage the excursion a little? Just a little tweak?


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

I did it. I just bought the Shiva X.....I'm excited to get this project rolling again.


Thank you for all your help guys.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> ^That looks pretty good, not perfect but manageable. Do you think if I made the enclosure just a touch smaller and tuned to 20hz that would help manage the excursion a little? Just a little tweak?


either way really. it doesn't change it much. 

4 cubes at 20hz you'll be a hair safer at around 30hz, but then it makes it worse around 10-14hz. 4 cubes at 19hz looks better at both points. 

either way you'll be close to clipping the amp at the same time you'll be reaching xmax. the only other thing you need to take into account is the frequency response as a whole. but you really won't know what your room will do till you get it built and in it's final resting place. using a ported sub can give good results or not so good results, all depends on your room gain.

download winisd and play around with it. if you do, just make sure you set the voice coil temp at like 200 degrees or so. leaving it at 0 won't give real world results as the voice coil obviously heats up when it sees power, a lot of people forget that.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> I did it. I just bought the Shiva X.....I'm excited to get this project rolling again.
> 
> 
> Thank you for all your help guys.


congratulations! you'll love it. it is a great sub. if it disappoints you, it's certainly not the driver's fault itself. it can be a very musical sub and i'm sure it can also dig plenty low in the right box. 

mine on music just blends right in and it doesn't make it obvious that its there. it just does its job of filling in the low stuff.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Thanks man. I appreciate your help modeling in WinISD. I'll likely just keep the design right with what they have listed on their site for the 4.3 cube box at 19hz. I already have the precision 4" port that I didn't cut so that will save me some money.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> Thanks man. I appreciate your help modeling in WinISD. I'll likely just keep the design right with what they have listed on their site for the 4.3 cube box at 19hz. I already have the precision 4" port that I didn't cut so that will save me some money.


no problem man. glad i could help. as long as you are careful i think you should be ok. just remember i was guessing at what EQ and crossover numbers to put into winisd. it should be a good estimate but your results may very a little. 

it does kinda look borderline dangerous, but you said your in an apartment so i don't see it getting cranked to the max anyway. just be careful cranking it on demanding movies like Cloverfield or war of the worlds and stuff like that and i think you'll be ok.

one question i do have. how, or where are you going to mount the plate amp with a round tube as your sub enclosure? in a separate little box or something? just curious.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

tcguy85 said:


> one question i do have. how, or where are you going to mount the plate amp with a round tube as your sub enclosure? in a separate little box or something? just curious.


Indeed you are correct sir. I already have the o-audio plate amp in it's own little box. It was a decision I made based on a couple reasons....

-I could build a more airtight enclosure for the Peerless subs and that way the two enclosures would be identical. 

-I wanted to integrate a fan into the plate amp to make sure it stayed cool when I had it pounding. My ED LT550 would overheat sometimes so I was being overly cautious. 

-And also because I wanted a power supply I could use with anything. This way if I needed to test a car audio sub I've built I can test it in the house on the plate amp first 

Here are some pictures of the housing. I have a large hole in the bottom so it sucks air up and out the fan at the top.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

sweet. thats pretty cool.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

tcguy85 said:


> sweet. thats pretty cool.


Thanks! The fan runs like a champ and it's quiet. It's a computer fan that is said to only produce 9db of noise. I've never heard it, even when my apartment is dead quiet at night and I'm standing right by it.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I’ve got a 12w7 just sitting in my house waiting for an HT setup someday. 

My current plan is to get a 2nd 12w7 and have them at opposite ends of an HT room. 


This thread is making me angry!


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


> I’ve got a 12w7 just sitting in my house waiting for an HT setup someday.
> 
> My current plan is to get a 2nd 12w7 and have them at opposite ends of an HT room.
> 
> ...


That would be the tits...I think it would be a great idea. What is the final impedance of that woofer? I recently heard a JL Fathom and it was pretty nice. I wouldn't give up my Peerless Twins for it but I thought it was very nice.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Spec says 3ohm, but I haven't hooked a DMM up to mine to see for sure.

That's the problem... finding an amp that can handle 3 ohms. Unless, I somehow wired them in series, which would be kinda dumb if they're at opposite ends of a 25' room, not to mention sharing a channel, thus throwing a wrench into any and all EQ.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

i would imagine an amp that can take a 4 ohm load would take a 3 ohm load without any real issues.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

tcguy85 said:


> i would imagine an amp that can take a 4 ohm load would take a 3 ohm load without any real issues.


Honestly...my O-Audio plate amp doesn't even get warm. I bet it would take a 3 ohm load fine. I know I was worried about the GTI's dual 6ohm coils wired in parallel but I have yet to even stress this amp.

tcguy, does yours get hot at all?


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> Honestly...my O-Audio plate amp doesn't even get warm. I bet it would take a 3 ohm load fine. I know I was worried about the GTI's dual 6ohm coils wired in parallel but I have yet to even stress this amp.
> 
> tcguy, does yours get hot at all?


i have only really checked it a few times but it has been fine from what i can tell. the fins on it will get warm to the touch, but not hot.

with the way you have yours fan cooled i bet it would run fine at 3ohm.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

i cant find the thread, but i had a diyma 12 in a very similar enclosure, because that sub is designed for a very small box, putting it in a very large box makes it behave I.B.

i loved it.

your 500 watts would be plenty.

cost you bout $100 if you can find one. 




ItalynStylion said:


> Here are some pictures of the idea as it went along before the train wreck....


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

60ndown said:


> i cant find the thread, but i had a diyma 12 in a very similar enclosure, because that sub is designed for a very small box, putting it in a very large box makes it behave I.B.
> 
> i loved it.
> 
> ...


I already ordered the Shiva X for this project but I've wanted to pick one of those up sometime just to toy with. I've never heard one.


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## my89_928gt (Aug 22, 2006)

I got a diyma 12 still in the box. We can try to see how it sounds. But, I'm keeping it so, just to try.
Thats a cool looking project. 
I always thought about making a Housewreaker(Deckware). Oh Well have a SVS PB12/2 sounds awesome on music and movies. playing down to 16hz


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

tcguy85 said:


> Shiva-X from DIYcable.com
> 
> i have one in 3.2 cubes sealed on 500 watts and it is great for music and gaming. i still need more woofage for certain movies though. i guess my room is to big for a single sealed 12.


I have a Shiva-X in 4.3 ported to 16 Hz and it absolutely blows me away. On a 500w O-Audio plate amp. This sub goes SO low and definitely has more output than I can use.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

its_bacon12 said:


> I have a Shiva-X in 4.3 ported to 16 Hz and it absolutely blows me away. On a 500w O-Audio plate amp. This sub goes SO low and definitely has more output than I can use.


which subsonic filter setting do you use with it?

how big is your room?


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

tcguy85 said:


> which subsonic filter setting do you use with it?
> 
> how big is your room?


^^What he said...and what type of port are you using? The precision port, uncut, will tune that size box to 19 so that's what I'll be doing. 16hz must have some stupid low end.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> ^^What he said...and what type of port are you using? The precision port, uncut, will tune that size box to 19 so that's what I'll be doing. 16hz must have some stupid low end.


Used 1 and 3/4 tube lengths to get the port (IIRC). 4" diameter.

Room size is rather small and subsonic is set on 18ish.

The EQ is at around 35ish Hz where there's a rather big spike in my response, trying to flatten it out.

And yes, it has stupid low end. LOL that's seriously an understatement. Dark Knight has some SERIOUS amount of bass (no pun intended) and had to turn the gain down quite a bit so it wasn't so overwhelming.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

The box is 4.3 cubic feet net and I took the tuning from 19 to 16 hz. The box is freakin huge. Took me about 15 minutes to get it up to my second floor apartment heh.

Also, I got it when they had the discount to $135+shipping.

I really can't say enough about the O-Audio and Shiva-X combo.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

its_bacon12 said:


> Used 1 and 3/4 tube lengths to get the port (IIRC). 4" diameter.
> 
> *Room size is rather small and subsonic is set on 18ish.*
> 
> ...


the choices on the knob i was talking about are 12, 16, 20, and 25hz. which setting are you using on the amp?


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

tcguy85 said:


> the choices on the knob i was talking about are 12, 16, 20, and 25hz. which setting are you using on the amp?


Right between 16-20.

Maybe I'm retarded. I'm at my parents house right now so I can't check til Saturday.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

its_bacon12 said:


> Right between 16-20.
> 
> Maybe I'm retarded. I'm at my parents house right now so I can't check til Saturday.


I think TCguy is saying that the subsonic knob isn't like the others. It's not a sweeping turn, it's individual clicks. I'd guess you have it set on 16hz.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> I think TCguy is saying that the subsonic knob isn't like the others. It's not a sweeping turn, it's individual clicks. I'd guess you have it set on 16hz.


On the O-Audio I'm almost positive it's sweeping turn. The rest are anyway...why would they put a clicky one that's inconsistent with the other 3?


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

its_bacon12 said:


> On the O-Audio I'm almost positive it's sweeping turn. The rest are anyway...why would they put a clicky one that's inconsistent with the other 3?


Maybe they make more than one amp? I have mine about 4 feet from me and I know for fact it's a clicky knob.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> Maybe they make more than one amp? I have mine about 4 feet from me and I know for fact it's a clicky knob.


yup, mine has 4 positions. mines in a sealed box and even i'm using the 25hz setting. yes the lower settings add more low end, but i'll take the extra volume over the extra low end that i can't hear anyway. 

i honestly don't know how the other guy is not running into issues with his ported one on the 16hz setting. the winisd results don't lie. his room must either be tiny, he really doesn't listen to loudly, or does but doesn't notice the nasty sounds of bottoming out (or at least greatly exceeding xmax). 

in my sized room, (14'x21'x8' or 2352 cu ft) i need to add 1 or 3 more of these to my setup, maybe then i can get more of the extreme low end. but for now i'll keep it safe and get more volume both at the same time.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

Woops. Double post. See page 4.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

Sometimes the sub will get some extremely low information and it catches my eye moving at near full xmax. I listen loud enough that the people above and below me hate me so much they called the cops a few times, and I almost got evicted by my land lord.

My room is about 14x16x8.

Anyway, I love the sub and if anyone is in Syracuse/Central NY I'd be more than happy to show them.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

I got the Shiva X in the mail! It's a very nice looking driver. It's built like a tank and looks like it can handle a fair amount of abuse! No excess glue on the dustcap or surrounds. The build quality on this thing is VERY nice. 

I wont be able to build the enclosure till after the 31st because I'll be up in Connecticut visiting my dad for a few days. Once I get back I'll get started on it and finish up this project. I'm really excited to get things moving again. 


PS: I'm sorry I don't have any pictures at the moment. My camera died on me a few weeks back. I'm in the process of getting a new one; possibly a Nikon D90


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> I got the Shiva X in the mail! It's a very nice looking driver. It's built like a tank and looks like it can handle a fair amount of abuse! No excess glue on the dustcap or surrounds. The build quality on this thing is VERY nice.
> 
> I wont be able to build the enclosure till after the 31st because I'll be up in Connecticut visiting my dad for a few days. Once I get back I'll get started on it and finish up this project. I'm really excited to get things moving again.
> 
> ...



I really can't say enough about this sub, especially for what I paid for it. It's probably got the largest magnet structure on it of any sub I've had LOL but really, it sounds incredible. Stunning lows and it blends tremendously well with my Lineup Series R44's. 

Really, I don't think you should have any complaints. Good luck on the project, keep us updated!


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Well just a little update on this...

I've cut the pipe to length and sanded it down. I had intended on painting it the same color as the base but I think I might just leave it white. It sands down to a very nice and uniform matte white color that I rather like. I'm planning on leaving it white and if I want to paint it later down the line I will.

Today I finished cutting all the other pieces that I'll need to finish this up. I just need to sand them down, seal them, and attach them to the pipe itself so I can mount the woofer. I'll paint the top plug for the pipe (where the port will mount) the same color as the base.

I have a few pictures that I'll post in the morning. I'm still waiting on the binding posts and the speaker gasketing tape from parts express. All of that should be in by Thursday so I expect to light this thing up by Friday! I'm more excited than I can type....


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## my89_928gt (Aug 22, 2006)

Look forward to the pictures.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Ok, sorry I've been dragging ass lately. Here are the pictures of what I have done so far. I'm taking it a little slow so I can make sure I get things right. I don't enjoy repeating tasks. I appologize for the cell phone pics. They are decent for a phone though 


Here is a few pictures of the base that will hold up the pipe so it can down fire the sub. I have it a flat primer dark gray at the moment. I'm still not sure what color I want to pain this whole thing so I'm going to hold off on that for a while. 

















Here is the part that will be at the bottom of the pipe. It's purpose is to center the pipe in the base so it fits snug and it is also where the sub will mount. 

This end is where the pipe will fit...










The sub mounts in this hole here...










Here is the top section. It fits VERY snug inside the pipe. The flange on this portion is exactly the same diameter as the pipe itself. I feel like I got it about as perfect as was possible. The last picture is test fitting the port. The flush mount depth came out exactly like I wanted.


























I'm really excited that things are starting to come together again. I expect to hear this thing within a few days


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

I made some decent progress today. It's basically done but not finished. This means it is functional but not painted. I didn't paint the pipe yet or the bottom piece that the sub will mount to because I might want to leave the pipe white. Either way, I have no idea what I would paint it with or what color so I'm leaving it bare. 


Here is the stacked piece mounted to the end of the pipe. I used some crazy industrial glue and 8 long screws to hold it in place. Without the glue and the screws it would have been such a tight fit I almost doubt I really needed them. The glue acted as a lubricant so I could get the damn thing over the end of the pipe. I had to put a cloth over the top of it and hammer it down into place. The second shot shows the countersunk screws.

















The binding posts were next on my list today. They were a very tight fit as well but that was intentional so they wouldn't leak. With a little tap action from the hammer they set into place very nicely. I used some silicone on the inside to make sure NO air escaped from them. 

Overkill? Yes...
Peace of mind? Yes...


















So here is my test fitting. I lowered it into place and it fits snug as a bug in a rug. I will pop the top on with the port when I'm ready to fire it up. I designed it so that it's removable but it wont have a problem leaking air. This is pretty much how it will look. The base was designed with the IDMAX in mind and the pipe section for the IDMAX's airspace was significantly shorter. So if the column section on this looks a little tall for the base that's why. All I need to do now is borrow a truck so I can get this thing to my place so I can fire her up!


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

And yes...that's a step ladder behind it. It's a tall beast and it makes it significantly easier to work on. :lol:


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

Oh guess what.. I just dug a little bit and found that my box is 4.9 cubic feet, net with the tuning of 16 Hz.

Before I stated it was 4.3 net. Just to clarify


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Well, as some of you might have noticed from my other thread, the Shiva X that was sent to me was retarded so Kevin is sending me a new one. Either it snuck by QC or my UPS man hates me for buying lots of heavy things.

Regardless, here are some pictures of the mounting and the enclosure basically done. I mounted the Shiva X in the enclosure before coming to the final conclusion that it was dead. Yes, I'm standing on a table in that picture....










Here is what it looks like in all it's glory. After I took the Shiva X out of the enclosure I decided to stick my ED 13ov.2 in there and see how it sounded. It sounds wonderful! Very accurate and punchy and it really has authority in the lower region. With tuning as low as it is the driver doesn't unload on extremely low notes like it did in the previous enclosure. I'm excited to get a working Shiva X in there and see what it can do!


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

The lamp behind the enclosure is a nice touch, like a gift from God!


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Megalomaniac said:


> The lamp behind the enclosure is a nice touch, like a gift from God!


What lamp? That's just sheer awesomeness radiating from the enclosure itself.


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