# BMW X3 Told U So install



## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

What’s better than a BMW? A free BMW!!! I am blessed to be involved with Body By Vi which is a direct marketing company that pays me to drive this BMW. Not to mention that I have lost 65 pounds since January using their products on my way to losing 100 pounds. The only thing I didn't like about moving to this new car was needing to trade in my Lexus which had a nice system in it. I was using a Pioneer PRS800, Phoenix Gold Ti 475 and 600.2, Hybrid Audio L6/L1v1, 2-DIYMA R-12. I loved that system. Now its time to upgrade to what hopefully turns out to be the next level of audio love.

My goals with this system are to use the factory head unit and a JBL MS-8. I wanted to keep the install as stealth as possible and I want to be able to put the OEM equipment back when time to sell. I wanted to use HAT speakers again because I was so pleased with them in my Lexus. I hope using the all 8 channels on the MS-8 the logic7 processing will be a considerable SQ improvement over my Lexus system.

I started this install last week and I would like to thank all those on this forum who have helped inspire me to go for it.

Here is the blank canvas:


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

The equipment I decided to use is the OEM head unit sending to a JBL MS-8 processor. I decided to try Massive Audio amps after reading several good reviews here. Needing at least 8 channels I picked the Nx5 and the Nx4. This car has a 4" driver in all 4 doors and a 1" tweet in the front doors and I did not want to cut up the doors so I opted for HAT L4se / HAT L1 Pro R2 in the front doors and HAT L4 / HAT L1v1 in the rear doors. The original equipment for the X3 has 6" subs in the floors under the front seats so my idea is to use my HAT L6 from the Lexus or if I can fit them a set of HAT L8v2. The MS-8 has the ability for center channel processing so I will use HAT L6se / HAT L1 Pro R2. I will use either 1 or 2 of my existing DIYMA R12 subs I pulled from my Lexus.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

I needed to do some exploratory surgery to figure out where the equipment will go. I originally planned to put the amps in the same spot the factory amp is and the MS-8 in the rear floor but it turned out they fit better the other way around.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

After using Damplifyer pro and a layer of MLV I installed the MS-8 in the OEM amp location. I was able to hack the mounting bracket from the OEM to use for the MS-8.
































































It fits nicely there.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Looks like you're off to a good start


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

I love the equipment selection. The MS-8 looks great there. Too bad that will be covered. What size power wire did you choose? It looks a bit undersized.


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## upperguy (Jul 31, 2009)

trumpet said:


> I love the equipment selection. The MS-8 looks great there. Too bad that will be covered. What size power wire did you choose? It looks a bit undersized.


for the <30" run? He could probably put 8ga to it and still be fine.

I'm really looking forward to seeing this build develop, my parents had an X3 when it first came out and they are sporty little trucks and this new gen is supposed to be a lot better than what I had. (of course mine almost lit my brother's ass on fire when the heat seater malfunctioned and burned through the leather).

Anyway, keep us updated and I hope you manage to do it quickly and without issue!

So what's the deal with the car, I know you said you worked with them and lost a ton of weight which is awesome. Are you their spokesperson or won a contest?


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

Oops, I didn't see the battery in the back of the vehicle.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

trumpet said:


> I love the equipment selection. The MS-8 looks great there. Too bad that will be covered. What size power wire did you choose? It looks a bit undersized.


If I only had a quarter for everytime I hear that. :laugh:

It is a really short run of 4 gauge broke out to a 20" 8 gauge to each amp. The Nx4 pretty much only takes a 8 gauge or smaller power and ground wire and I figured it should be fine on the Nx5.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

are you getting any noise from the amps?


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

On to the HAT L8 install under the seats. The X3 has these kind of cool inverted motor subs under the seats. They are mounted in an abs enclosure that vents out into the sub frame.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

Test fitting an L8 under the passenger side front seat. I used 1/2" Baltic Birch to create an enclosure that vents into the same holes that the OEM subs vented into to allow for an IB install of the L8s. Then I put the carpet back and used a combination of the factory speaker grill and fabricated an additional speaker grill for the carpet I cut away to expose the cone to air along side of the front seats.

































































These are new HAT L8v2. I can't wait to hear them........


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

Both front and rear doors had a factory 4" mid bass and the front doors also had a 1" tweeter. I tried to find a way to not have to fab pods on the doors. I don't want to kill the resale on this car with a hack job and my skills are not good enough to fabricate a solution that is indistinguishable from OEM equipment. So I wanted to be able to put the original equipment back when it’s time for the next car. After looking at the engineering of the door there was no room to cut sheet metal because that would not buy me very much mounting depth due to the window occupies that space. I decided to fab a Baltic birch baffle which sandwiches the drivers and the door card together and mounts to the sheet metal at the top door handle bolt in a sort of compression fitting. I also dampened the outer door skins as well as the door cards. I figured with 4" drivers and tweets there shouldn't need much more restraint.














































I think this might just be an upgrade to the Bavarian audio engineering.




















The front Baffles had a slight bend in them where the door meets the dash. I kerffed the back side of the Baltic birch.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

One of my next projects is to create a center channel that will drop in to where the factory sunglass storage area is. I have been auditioning the L6se / L1 Pro R2 componets for the mid channel. Trying to hear the best angle to mount them at.




















But first I think I will start on the sub enclosure. I will fabricate a MDF / Fiberglass sealed enclosure in the back drivers side corner.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i didn't like the ms8 when i had it, but i did do my center channel as recommended by Andy W. He says the best center is when you have the mid and tweet firing up towards the windshield, the tweeter closer to the hood than the mid. i had a solid center, with excellent height and depth. just a thought as you are experimenting.


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

Those SE's are beautiful, very nice choice of equipment.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Very nice build. makes me want a BMW even more!!!


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

holy hybrid batman I would kill to have that much hybrid gear haha, i run just L6's and their incredible drivers.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

I got started on the sub enclosure and center channel fiberglass work today. With any luck I should have them both done by Tuesday. I used blue painters tape as a barrier to protect from the FG resin and then aluminum foil to release the FG from the mold. The sub enclosure has a MDF/Baltic Birch frame with FG over the frame. I got the first layer of FG wetted out before the bugs were too much.





























Here is a look at the center.












I also got started on the 8 channel snake to run from the MS-8 to the amps. I think Techflex would have looked better.





















Today is Fathers day. My wife asked what I wanted to do for Fathers day. I told her work on the car. She was like "no really what do you want to do?"


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## aporozco (Apr 6, 2011)

^^^^^^
Great response. Women want you to be honest, and when you are they don't believe you. 

Great looking build. Reading this thread has influenced me to get some Massive Audio Nano Amps. So thank you sir.


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## dales (Dec 16, 2010)

i like!!!


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Sweet!!!


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## Installer4life (Jun 26, 2010)

Very nice and thought out..


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

more  i wanna see more


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

upperguy said:


> So what's the deal with the car, I know you said you worked with them and lost a ton of weight which is awesome. Are you their spokesperson or won a contest?


I am a distributor for Body By Vi. It is a direct marketing company. I liked the milkshakes and told some others about them then they tried them and told others and in about 10 weeks I had helped enough others start transforming their lives that I qualified for them to pay for my BMW. The cool thing is they will pay for anyone to get one. If you are interested in improving your health or would like to drive a free BMW send me a PM and I will get you more info.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

eviling said:


> more  i wanna see more


Nearly went to jail the last time I told someone that.............


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## aporozco (Apr 6, 2011)

Have you had experience with those nano amps? how are you going to vent them? I was thinking of ordering an nx4 and n3 and put each of them under the front seats, you think they'll breathe well enough?


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

aporozco said:


> Have you had experience with those nano amps? how are you going to vent them? I was thinking of ordering an nx4 and n3 and put each of them under the front seats, you think they'll breathe well enough?


I have only ran them for a few minutes so far but they get really hot!!! You probably will need fans. I will try to keep you updated on their performance.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

I got some work finished on the sub enclosure as well as the center enclosure. I glassed the molds for both the sub and the center a few days ago and spent the last several days building up the mold. Today I was able to fabricate the baffles. I had been planing to arange the tweet below the L6SE on the center channel but last minute I decided to move the tweeter above the L6. I really enjoy the creative aspect of using fiberglass but the actual working with fiberglass sucks. Especially here in Florida. Grinding FG when you are hot and sweaty causes it to stick to my skin and it is itchy!!!

Here are some pics of the sub enclosure progress. With both the center and the sub enclosure I kind of tried to have a sort of a snowman look.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

Here is the center enclosure.



















































































I should get the front shape setteled and the first layer of FG on both the sub and center enclosure tomorrow.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

If you do any Fiber Glass work do yourself a favor and buy these sissors from US Composits. I used regular household sissors last year when I made a FG enclosure. It was quite difficult to cut the FG material with the household grade. I bought these from US Composits and thay work very well even on thick mats.


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## Dirtboy (Aug 28, 2010)

Install looks outstanding!!! Makes me want to do this to the wife's X3... lol.

Keep up the good work and keep the pics coming!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Keep representin' HAT and maybe Scott will give you a 240 to drive for free 

Nice work. I like the shapes you are working with on your box and center channel. Should look quite nice when done.

Jay


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

Ever had one of thise moments while installing that you have to wonder to yourself just how big a dumbass you really must be? I had one of those moments today. I got the center channel enclosure base mated to the baffle and stretched tshirt material and glued it with Gorilla (CA) glue. Great glue by the way. I got to this point just as I needed to be leaving for work but I wanted to test fit it before leaving. In a hurry I noticed it was snug up agains the windshield but just wouldnt quite slip into place. I figured if I just pushed it a tiny bit........ Friggin cracked windshield. Check it out.




























OOPS!!!

Oh well I will tear this beautiful piece apart and rebuild it even better.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

either you must have pushed really hard, or that was one weakass windshield


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

mattyjman said:


> either you must have pushed really hard, or that was one weakass windshield


Not sure but I did not push hard at all. I was suprised how easily it broke. Oh well thats what insurance is for....


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

damn that sux but good build so far


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## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

gotta love insurance. just bs them and say something hit you on the freeway hahaha


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

cool stuff, can you get a pic of that door thing you did a bit further back?

im not sure how your midbass is going to be under the seat, but good job fitting it all in OEM style.

and congrats on the free beamer.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

req said:


> cool stuff, can you get a pic of that door thing you did a bit further back.


Are you asking for additional pictures of the door card and the speaker baffle?


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

A little progress with the center channel and sub enclosure tonight. I will start laying the fiberglass down tomorrow. 

Sub enclosure is coming along.





































I had to redo mating the baffle to the FG mold yesterday but I got it done tonight also.


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## MTopper (Nov 4, 2009)

that center looks darn good man. the sub enclosure looks just as great


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## blueatlanta (Feb 10, 2011)

i did door speakers in an m3 a couple weeks ago, what i did was make an abs baffle the same shape as the stock one, inserted the aftermarket speakers and used the factory screw locations. then hot glued a couple spots to make sure that it wouldn't squeak or rattle. i had a hard time figuring it out at first, since it seems that the two speakers held the grill to the door. however, it had like a 2 or 3 inch midrange and tweeter not a 4.


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## cchrono (Oct 8, 2009)

Looks great giving me some ideas of what to do in my x3. Was wondering if you could show some more pictures of the doors and what they look like closed. What kind of fabric did you use on them. Have u listened to the midbass under the seats and how does it sound? Also do u plan on painting or carpeting the sub box? Thanks a bunch really think im gonna go the same route u did in the doors just trying to get the concept of it all and see how it looks.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

i forgot about this build. this baby is gona sound niccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccce :O with that 7" center with tweeter, good lord. i didn't think you were doing a sub though, i saw you had an L8 in under the one seat in the stock sub location didn't you?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Very creative ideas and good execution. The under seat drivers must be very different than the 335i's.... no way the L8 would fit. That DIYMA 12 is going to be fantastic in the back as well - great job with the sub enclosure.


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## rmerkushen (Mar 5, 2012)

Very imressive install, and gave me some ideas .. Can you please share the dimensions for the underseat woofer boxes? I am also interested in depth? 

Thanks!


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## slim142 (Aug 5, 2010)

Hey DATCAT, you definitely need to come over and do an install with HAT drivers on my 328i

Thats exactly the drivers I want. I feel like this 2 pages I just saw were pure straight-up porn after been 3 months without activity.


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## cchrono (Oct 8, 2009)

Did you ever finish this install any updates or pictures I'm really curious how you think it ended up sounding. Especially the speakers u put under the seat.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

cchrono said:


> Did you ever finish this install any updates or pictures I'm really curious how you think it ended up sounding. Especially the speakers u put under the seat.


X2...exactly..... what happened to the rest of this build


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes I did finish. Sort of.... 

Have you ever installed what you thought would be a really great sounding system and when it's done being completely disgusted with the way it sounded? Well, after months of planing and learning new fabrication techniques then spending money like Obama on brand new equipment, that is exactly what happened to me on this build. 

When you try something really challenging one of two things happens either you knock it out of the park and WIN or you gain knowledge also known as EXPERIENCE. This was a lot of knowledge and experience gained.


I was reasonably happy with the appearance and the fitment of the install. I would like to pull the sub box out and re carpet. The compound shapes made it challenging to avoid wrinkles. Other than a few small blemishes I was pretty happy with the way it looks, not perfect but pretty good. 

My issue was I hated what the JBL MS8 was doing or not doing to be more accurate. What it was not doing was reproducing any mis bass. After reading about a million pages of the famous MS8 thread and reprogramming the MS8 about a thousand times I decided a BMW and MS8 is not a match made in heaven. I also did not like how hot the Massive audio amps got because they were in tight closed space under floor panels. Out with plan A in with plan B, 

Plan B was a pioneer P99 from Crutchfield and upgrade to better amps. Upgraded to 2 TRU steel 44 amps and a Zapco 650 to push the 8s and the DIYMA 12. Well then I could not eliminate a ground loop issue. I tried every trick I could think of. The community here had lots of helpful suggestions to try but none seemed to work. I am suspecting that the TRU Amps were contributing to the problem. After a month of trying to eliminate the noise I decided to return the P99 and try another MS8 in part because I had read on our forum that someone had figured a work around for the MS8. So back to plan A. Really more like plan A.2.

The work around with the MS8 is to not turn on the sub during configuration of the MS8 but run the sub from the Front Low channels. So I used the Zapco and used the main inputs and used the amps Xovers to separate sub and HAT L8. This was a big improvement. The magic was in the EQ. When I finally got over my silly belief that I should be able to run a flat signal with small tweaks.

I am 85% happy with my system currently. I don't think I will ever be completely happy with any system I build. For me the fun is in the journey. Although this journey was way longer than first planned and quite a bit more expensive I'm glad I got a chance to do it.

I have lots more pics that I will post soon. I have to get them posted to photo bucket then posted here. Thanks for your help and support along the way.


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## cchrono (Oct 8, 2009)

Awesome to hear can't wait to see the pictures. I'm finally about to take the plunge and install a system in my x3 gonna base some elements off of your design especially the way you installed speakers in the doors. How did the l8's work under the seats in conjunction with the door speakers? I'm thinking of probably going with the Rockford Fosgate sixty.3 for my processing needs.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

cchrono said:


> Awesome to hear can't wait to see the pictures. I'm finally about to take the plunge and install a system in my x3 gonna base some elements off of your design especially the way you installed speakers in the doors. How did the l8's work under the seats in conjunction with the door speakers? I'm thinking of probably going with the Rockford Fosgate sixty.3 for my processing needs.


L8s under the seats was a good idea. L4se in the door was as big as I could go without major modifications to the door metal. I tend to turn cars over every couple years so I try to never do something to reduce the bluebook value by making something I can't put back to stock. My last system had L6 / L1 combo with 2 - DIYMA 12 in a sealed FB enclosure. Pioneer PRS 800 run active and Phoenix Gold Ti amps. I loved that system. Simple to setup sounded great.


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## cchrono (Oct 8, 2009)

Where did you get the fabric for your doors. I just made fiberglass pillars for my x3 and can't find the fabric anywhere? I tried fitting L8's under my seats and it wasn't even close I think the 04 x3's must have had different design. So I'm gonna build door pods for them instead. Thanks for the inspiration to get started on my car


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

Sticking with it and partnering up with the right people can have the biggest impact on your project. This system has been a work in progress that for the majority of the last 2 years I have been unsatisfied with my results. I have made a few changes and now I am very happy with the results. I went to Spring Break Nationals and met with Scott Buwalda and several of Team Hybrid and had them all evaluate my system and give me feedback. The feedback I got was to move the Hybrid L4se from the upper door OEM location to fabricating A-pillar pods. They also recomended to change my center channel from L6se to L4se. Scott and several others recommended to go tweeterless. I figured if the best in the business are recommending I try something, I probably should try it. Here is a bunch of pics showing moving to the a pillars as well as the amp rack and amp cover I recently fabricated.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

Here is the L4se/L1 pro in the door that I installed previously. 







This was the original mock up. I still hadn't been convinced to try tweeter less yet. 



I ordered a third L4se to replace the L6se I was using in the center channel. They convinced me to start using grill covers too. 



I started by bonding the grill cover ring and some Baltic birch together to make speaker baffles and then figured out where to cut the A-pillar covers.









I stripped off the OEM cloth and made the cuts.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

I wanted to keep the drivers as far to the sides of the vehicle as possible so I cut a wide enough hole to inset into the pillar cover. I stretched fabric over a portion of the hole. 



I then wetted the fabric where it joined the cover with the Gorilla CA glue.




Very carefully measured the angle.




This process is a FAIL! 

I wanted to show you where I went wrong and corrected it. Bonding the grill ring to speaker baffle was a mistake because I intend to the wrap a-pillar cover with thin headliner material so I need a trim piece to terminate the headliner material. I thought I would need to fabricate in a two step process first create the inset shape then bond the baffle to the inset and then fabricate the bottom of the pod. As you will see next I stretched material around the speaker baffle and wetted it with FG resin I was using to also wet out the material for the inset. I decided this was not going to work so I broke the baffles off and then fabricated new baffles that the grill covers mounted to but wet not permanently bonded to.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

After fabricating the new speaker baffles I hot glue them in place using chopstix. Then I learned that t-shirt material is the way to go when stretching the first wall of the pod.











When I got to this point I should have made sure the grill rings still fit. They didn't!

I put tape over the T-nuts to keep resin out. Then wetted the T-shirt with resin and trimmed off excess t-shirt material.





After curing I then started building up from the inside. I mixed about 50-50 Duraglass and US Composits resin and poured it into the pods and sloshed it around. A couple coats is all it takes. 

A new technique with this project is to use cabosil - fumed silica aka thickining agent. Mixed with resin it thickens it up so it is like sculpting with mashed potatoes.





It was cold here in Florida for a few days so I had to use my easy-bake-oven


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

Then I figured out that somehow the baffles were set at the wrong angle and the grill rings wouldn't fit. Well I found an easy fix. I cut out more of the inset and re glassed it. 




Then after several thin coats of Rage Gold and lots of sanding I got to a point I could audition them. Amazing!!! Simply amazing difference.














I think I am sold on tweeterless. Now I need to pull them and wrap them.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

I recently reworked my amp rack and amp cover. 

This is what is was before. Not very organized. This I think was primarily because I switched Amps several times. The original build was some nano amps hidden behind interior panels. They got too hot so I changed and ended up with a Zapco 650.6 for the Sub and the two L8s and 2- Tru Tech Steel S44 for the L-C-R and rear channels. The MS-8 is still buried behind interior panels as well as a little amp I use for navigation i feed from my phone to a L3se under the dash. It was messy and needed cleaned up. 



I decided I liked this orientation better.



Built a simple amp rack shroud to clean up the look. I use this car as a daily driver that includes trips to the home improvement or even diving trips. I need durable protection so I build an amp cover also.







Drilled and tapped to create custom hardware including hinge and pneumatic shock to assist with lifting.





Created a fan cover.



Amp cover down covering the amps.



Amp cover up for showing.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)




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## crx4luke (Aug 9, 2008)

Looks great. Are you still using the MS-8?


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

crx4luke said:


> Looks great. Are you still using the MS-8?


Yes. I originally was unhappy and replaced it with a Pioneer P99 then went back to the MS-8. I have to tune it by selecting "No Sub" and then run setup without the sub connected to the amp. Then run the sub from the lows in the front channels.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Looks great I love your a pillars !! So you sell body by via ever heard of zeal?


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

optimaprime said:


> Looks great I love your a pillars !! So you sell body by via ever heard of zeal?


Thanks! Yes I have been a promoter for Body by Vi for a couple years. I have lost 95 pounds and they pay for my BMW. Pretty sweet deal!!!


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

thats a kind of "i dont know how to hide this **** so i'll just put a big box over it" solution and i love it! it looks awsome, and still very practical.


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## cchrono (Oct 8, 2009)

Glad to see you are still working on this. I had my speakers in the apillars of my x3 I didn't go tweeterless but it sounded awesome. Unfortunately I totalled my x3. Recently bought a 2011 535 though so now I have to fit everything into that car.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

why are the midranges aimed at the visors?

what made you want them at such a different angle than "directly at your ears"?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

You're using 2 pairs of midranges upfront? 

Kelvin


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

I too, am curious as to why drivers are angled up? Was that achieved through listening, or upon recommendation?


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

DATCAT said:


> I am a distributor for Body By Vi. It is a direct marketing company. I liked the milkshakes and told some others about them then they tried them and told others and in about 10 weeks I had helped enough others start transforming their lives that I qualified for them to pay for my BMW. The cool thing is they will pay for anyone to get one. If you are interested in improving your health or would like to drive a free BMW send me a PM and I will get you more info.





req said:


> why are the midranges aimed at the visors?
> 
> what made you want them at such a different angle than "directly at your ears"?


My goal was to point them towards the middle of the sunroof but they ended up pointed more towards the outside of the sunroof.


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## DATCAT (Aug 3, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> You're using 2 pairs of midranges upfront?
> 
> Kelvin


I had L4se/ L1 pro in the doors. Scott recommended moving the L4 to the a pillar and going tweeterless. I originally thought I would need to use the tweeter. I figured I would try tweeterless and then test the tweets. I have been testing the tweets today. So far tweeterless is winning.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

idk, its cool to say you do it, but in the end why cut it out? iot just makes it an easier build. ive heard only a couple tweeterless systems, always felt something was still missing. in fact, I listned to somebodys car once and told him i didnt like the high end, so i dont think i like the tweeters, to which he replied he had none lol. so, on a purley unbias choice i still didn't like it.


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