# Ugrading ES Audio Ultra drivers



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Which compression driver would you recommend as a replacement for the ES Audio Ultra? 

What I am seeking is a combination of lower end extension, high frequency extension and lower distortion at high volume.

Also is there a driver that you would use with the mini but not with the full size horn body or the opposite?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

It all depends on which mini body you are talking about and your budget.

But those drivers are pretty good all the way around.


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Budget is under $500 per driver. I have ES Audio newest mini and full size bodies. I bought booth bodies for testing purposes. 

I am mostly want to discuss full size horn body options although I would like to discuss mini options as well. I am looking to get the broadest frequency response range as possible without sacrificing power handing. I refer to power handling as the ability of the speaker to play abroad frequency range at high volume without distortion. I am looking for a ES Audio HLCD that can play 500hz-20khz cleanly at high volume.

I have been contemplating modifying the horn bodies too accommodate a 1.4" throat opening. I don't think this would be too difficult. It looks like once you step up to 1.4" the fr for the compression driver dips down in the 500hz range on many models.

Here is one driver I am looking at, the RADIAN 745NEOPB. I am not concerned about the mounting pattern since I will be opening up the throat on the horn body regardless and making my own mount.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

edouble101 said:


> Budget is under $500 per driver. I have ES Audio newest mini and full size bodies. I bought booth bodies for testing purposes.
> 
> I am mostly want to discuss full size horn body options although I would like to discuss mini options as well. I am looking to get the broadest frequency response range as possible without sacrificing power handing. I refer to power handling as the ability of the speaker to play abroad frequency range at high volume without distortion. I am looking for a ES Audio HLCD that can play 500hz-20khz cleanly at high volume.
> 
> ...


It's not so difficult to modify them for 1.4" throat drivers and I can give assistance if needed.

Most large format drivers are challenged above 10Khz especially those with 4" diaphragms and even the 3" variations are not so swift up top. If you go this route you migh consider a horn loaded super tweeter, I can make some suggestion if desired.

How much power and what type of a crossover will determine if any driver will be able to meet your needs. 500 Hz is the lowest I would recomend for the full size horns and MH version is well above that.

A little above your target budget, A TAD 2001 is the best for wideband operation like you outline but I would limit it to 10 watts or so at 500 Hz bringing it up to 600 Hz helps quite a bit and then you are safer to have higher power input and for maximum power input I would recommend 800 Hz. With 10 watts the TAD2001 is already at about 120 dB measured at 1 meter.

Eric


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I am not opposed to using a super tweeter. The TAD 2001 is definitely out of my budget unless you know where that driver can be bought at a price near my budget.

The amplifier I am using for the HLCDs is a Phoenix Gold ZPA 0.3. This gives me about 37.5wrms per channel to play with. I would be using another amplifier for the super tweeters if that is the route I go. I also have plenty of DSP capability.

Do you have another recommendation that is closer to my budget and possibly using a super tweeter as well.


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Maybe I am looking at this wrong. Would it be better to use a midrange driver and use the HLCD as a tweeter?

Also I am using B&C 10NW64 midbass that I want to low pass under 500hz.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

edouble101 said:


> Maybe I am looking at this wrong. Would it be better to use a midrange driver and use the HLCD as a tweeter?
> 
> Also I am using B&C 10NW64 midbass that I want to low pass under 500hz.


Why not bring the crossover up a little higher on the 10NW64? they are certainly capable of playing cleanly well above 500 Hz.

Are you building a two seat system or is this a single seat system or other?

Eric


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Eric Stevens said:


> Why not bring the crossover up a little higher on the 10NW64? they are certainly capable of playing cleanly well above 500 Hz.
> 
> Are you building a two seat system or is this a single seat system or other?
> 
> Eric


It is a two seat with emphasis on the driver's seat.


The 10NW's will be door mounted and I would rather keep midrange freqs out of the door for imaging reasons.

I am now thinking that a midrange driver in the kicks with the HLCDs underdash playing the upper midrange on up maybe better. That would fill in the gap between the midbass and HLCD and I would not need to modify the horn body for a different driver.


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

edouble101 said:


> It is a two seat with emphasis on the driver's seat.
> 
> 
> The 10NW's will be door mounted and I would rather keep midrange freqs out of the door for imaging reasons.
> ...


Low and forward in the doors can work very well even in 2 seat set ups, depends on the car. hard to get sub anchored up front and get a good center for both listeners though.

You are on the right track if you want to compete in 2 seat as having a dedicated midbass is necessary to get sub anchored up front for both seats.

The frequency range will probably be best from 60/70 to 180/250 for the 10" though and have a high efficiency 6.5" midrange up to ~ 2000/2500 Hz and horns 2000/2500 and up.

Eric


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Eric Stevens said:


> Low and forward in the doors can work very well even in 2 seat set ups, depends on the car. hard to get sub anchored up front and get a good center for both listeners though.
> 
> You are on the right track if you want to compete in 2 seat as having a dedicated midbass is necessary to get sub anchored up front for both seats.
> 
> ...


Got it. I was looking at modifying the HLCD's response when that wasn't the issue to begin with.

Thank you for your help Eric, I really appreciate it!


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

What Eric mentioned is sort of how I have my 3 way set up


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

edouble101 said:


> Which compression driver would you recommend as a replacement for the ES Audio Ultra?
> 
> What I am seeking is a combination of lower end extension, high frequency extension and lower distortion at high volume.
> 
> Also is there a driver that you would use with the mini but not with the full size horn body or the opposite?


There are tons of compression drivers that will cover four octaves that cost about $50-$150.

To extend the response by half an octave will often raise your cost to $2000 a pair. (Think TAD, JBLs or Radians with Beryllium diaphragms.)

This is why I invest so much time and effort in Unity horns. Wide bandwidth, low cost, one horn.


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

Patrick, in your opinion, what's the best bang for buck compression driver?


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

edzyy said:


> Patrick, in your opinion, what's the best bang for buck compression driver?


I dunno.

I usually just buy whatever fits the bandwidth I'm targeting.

For instance, if I want to play to 20khz, and I don't want to spend $500, there's only two or three drivers that can do it. (Prosound companies don't care about response above 15khz.)

If output above 15khz doesn't matter to you, I'd just buy whatever fits. For instance, I like my 2470s, but they're too big for a car. So that's why I've used Celestion, BMS, B&C, etc.

I don't see any good reason to buy titanium drivers, but that's about all I avoid. (Aluminum has wider bandwidth than titanium, but most metal diaphragms use titanium because titanium is more durable than aluminum.)

Check out the CSD plots at Brandon's website. You can see which drivers perform best given a specific bandwidth. https://sites.google.com/site/drivervault/driver-measurements


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