# caps coming back again



## uniquesoundandsecurity (May 27, 2013)

Had a question. Im seeing caps coming back into use again like back in the late 90s and early 
00s . Has there been any changes in technology? It it seems is all been done before and proven not to be useful. Anyone have a real answer on this one or just the same old post of someone using them that won a show........hopefully someone has a intelligent answer for this question. Thanks


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## theoldguy (Nov 17, 2009)

change in technology? A cap is a cap. It stores energy and discharges when required. Not much technology to change there. 

Where are you seeing them "coming back"? If its on this forum, what you are seeing is a lot of the older (more experienced) forum members not posting anything because all of the new members to the site are posting the same old threads asking all of the typical new person questions instead of searching for the information themselves. If you are seeing the rise in use of caps locally, then Im guessing its that time of era again when the manufacturers want to make another push to move product.


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## uniquesoundandsecurity (May 27, 2013)

theoldguy said:


> change in technology? A cap is a cap. It stores energy and discharges when required. Not much technology to change there.
> 
> Where are you seeing them "coming back"? If its on this forum, what you are seeing is a lot of the older (more experienced) forum members not posting anything because all of the new members to the site are posting the same old threads asking all of the typical new person questions instead of searching for the information themselves. If you are seeing the rise in use of caps locally, then Im guessing its that time of era again when the manufacturers want to make another push to move product.


Thats my exact thought on the subject!! I have been on some other forums and People are making banks of 2.7 volt cap banks for power supplys for systems and posting some vids of one guy using them and doing a 160 in a trunk car. So i think its the same thing all over again. no one is ever using a analog multi meter to show actual real voltage drops. We all know a digital meter cant react quick enough to show real voltage drops that are happening in there systems. A $10 digital volt meter wont show what drops that are actually occurring. I guess its just newbs aggravating me.lol please any other input on this thread would be appreciated

Thanks
Dave
Unique autosound


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## bkjay (Jul 7, 2009)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eURfjZAVKFY

We have no engine rpm to make the test more accurate,but it still make me think hmm.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

A supercapacitor from Maxwell is not the same as the 1f stiffing capacitor Monster sells. They have changed and will change technology in the future. Cell phones, electric cars will be able to charge in an instant instead of waiting hours. Just give it another couple of years and we all will be charging cell phones in a blink of an eye.


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## ParDeus (May 10, 2014)

Yes, the Maxwell caps are the real deal.
Unfortunately, the price has been driven sky high from all the interest. A few year ago, you could have a bank for ~$100.


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## Micksh (Jul 27, 2011)

I copied what I posted in the other thread about third ... " These caps are TOTALLY different from old style caps. I have a buddy that had four banks along with a couple batteries, pulling over 900 amps of current draw and dropping mere tenths of a volt during burps. We are finishing up putting seven banks in another buddy's van, and in testing, seven banks can withstand about 5000 amps of draw instantaneously. They use these things overseas in buses with no batteries, and they just recharge at stops in an extremely short time.

Also, the bigger caps like we are using are actually 2.7v each, and we run them series/parallel in banks. Each individual cap is 3000 farads, so a single bank is around 433 farads I believe, IIRC, once they are in series."


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## Micksh (Jul 27, 2011)

Before they were wired up.








After.


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## OGJordan (Sep 26, 2006)

The original purpose of stiffening capacitors was to compensate for the small banks of caps inside the amps. Then marketers got the idea to fleece everyone and well, it worked


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

theoldguy said:


> change in technology? A cap is a cap. It stores energy and discharges when required. Not much technology to change there.
> 
> Where are you seeing them "coming back"? If its on this forum, what you are seeing is a lot of the older (more experienced) forum members not posting anything because all of the new members to the site are posting the same old threads asking all of the typical new person questions instead of searching for the information themselves. If you are seeing the rise in use of caps locally, then Im guessing its that time of era again when the manufacturers want to make another push to move product.


 cap is a cap? technology changes,
ultracapacitors is a real deal, pricey but prices going down slow but steady.
You can replace your car battery or boost one with a a bank of ucaps. 

not only ucaps, regular electrolytics has changed in the last 40 years too, they shrink in size by at least twice.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Lipo batteries like the Juice Box are the next big thing. Super caps will prob go away pretty quickly once more companies are offering LiPo and they get cheaper to produce.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Lipo batteries like the Juice Box are the next big thing. Super caps will prob go away pretty quickly once more companies are offering LiPo and they get cheaper to produce.


I disagree, super caps will not be replaced by Lipo, they exist for different purposes and much different in how they works. 
As of today, ucaps charged faster and withstand more cycles.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Wait for graphene...


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

I know many that will use a cap for the sole purpose of filtering the power supply. That's what I use mine for. If it helps in any other way....bonus!


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## toylocost (Jul 4, 2011)

Niebur3 said:


> I know many that will use a cap for the sole purpose of filtering the power supply. That's what I use mine for. If it helps in any other way....bonus!


Saw a YouTube video on this a long time ago where someone was showing the difference with and without the cap in his van, could never find it again. Always wondered if that was BS or not.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

It was Steve Meade video using the amp dyno, iirc. With his friend damore.


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## toylocost (Jul 4, 2011)

TrickyRicky said:


> It was Steve Meade video using the amp dyno, iirc. With his friend damore.


In the D'Amore vid they were only worried about power output, didn't test anything to do with noise.


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## artv4nd3l4y (Jul 11, 2015)

Everything I've read about capacitors says that they're better for things like alternator whine. They will supply a small burst of energy, capable of preventing headlight dimming for a whole second. Another thing they're amazing at is exploding (much much more common than battery explosions haha), not to mention increasing overall alternator draw. On a system that is already past it's limit, adding a capacitor is disastrous and is harmful for the charging system. The best thing to hold a REAL charge is a second battery, capacitors are really useless for anything like voltage drop. My friend's voltage would drop to dangerous levels 10.8V (13w7 with JX1000 on 70 amp alternator) lol not my car, when he added a 750 CCA blacktop interstate in the back, it took 5 MINUTES for this to happen. But, when it does happen that means now the alternator has to recharge not just 1 but both batteries. The best way to avoid voltage drop (in massive 5k+ watt systems) is simply a HO alternator with battery bank, end of story.


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## Micksh (Jul 27, 2011)

artv4nd3l4y said:


> Everything I've read about capacitors says that they're better for things like alternator whine. They will supply a small burst of energy, capable of preventing headlight dimming for a whole second. Another thing they're amazing at is exploding (much much more common than battery explosions haha), not to mention increasing overall alternator draw. On a system that is already past it's limit, adding a capacitor is disastrous and is harmful for the charging system. The best thing to hold a REAL charge is a second battery, capacitors are really useless for anything like voltage drop. My friend's voltage would drop to dangerous levels 10.8V (13w7 with JX1000 on 70 amp alternator) lol not my car, when he added a 750 CCA blacktop interstate in the back, it took 5 MINUTES for this to happen. But, when it does happen that means now the alternator has to recharge not just 1 but both batteries. The best way to avoid voltage drop (in massive 5k+ watt systems) is simply a HO alternator with battery bank, end of story.


These things are on a completely different level than the normal capacitors people used to run. One bank absolutely crushes the output from a battery. Do they hold as much reserve power? No, but for instantaneous bursts these with a HO alternator will win in a landslide. My buddy tested voltage drop using one group 31 AGM vs one bank of caps, and the caps won handily.The other benefit is with such a low ESR (way below even the old 1 farad caps), they charge in a hurry. Also, remember, in a bank these add up to around 433 Farads, so it's a huge difference compared to the old school caps.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Micksh said:


> These things are on a completely different level than the normal capacitors people used to run. One bank absolutely crushes the output from a battery. Do they hold as much reserve power? No, but for instantaneous bursts these with a HO alternator will win in a landslide. My buddy tested voltage drop using one group 31 AGM vs one bank of caps, and the caps won handily.The other benefit is with such a low ESR (way below even the old 1 farad caps), they charge in a hurry. Also, remember, in a bank these add up to around 433 Farads, so it's a huge difference compared to the old school caps.


Don't agm batteries discharge slower than a lead acid? Ime a good old lead acid or lead acid gel battery will discharge plenty fast enough and a agm battery would discharge slower needing a cap to augment it. The longer Ah rating and slow discharge go hand in hand iirc . It's been a while so I'm a bit rusty but I think that's partially what brought caps into play was everyone wanted sealed batteries that they could mount in there car, and the optima or any other agm just didn't have the performance of the traditional wet cell. 

I could see caps become popular again if agm becomes popular again , all we need now is someone to make a fancy hi tech battery case with a neat color on it and people will assume it's the best (optima) and even worce get a deep cycle to further there current limiting issues and whallah , caps would be back. 

I'm happy with the way people wised up Bout it honestly . I never thought the masses would ever learn but they did for the most part. Caps ....eeh they have there place , maybe a diffrent style cap like mentioned here would be intresting to see .


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

This video has a pretty nice explanation of super capacitors (ultra capacitors). The thing that changed in recent years is the advent of double layer capacitors and increased capacitance for a given size capacitor. i.e. you can squeeze more capacitance into same space as non-double layer capacitors.

http://youtu.be/ldRdUbKhhPc


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## JohnnyOhh (Feb 19, 2015)

Given that, as many of you guys probably know, the execution of the installation of these capacitors is very important to getting them to work. I think the size of the capacitors, internal resistance & connectors/conn. res. & program material are all important things to get right in order for the caps to be successful.


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