# MB quart's downfall - What Really Happened



## xBlitzkriegx

I think its common knowledge by now that RF bought MBQ and was then sold to Maxxsonics which led to the MBQ name being downgraded in terms of a leader in sound quality for various reasons. personally, I think speaker that was mfg'd in Germany regardless of who owned them is/was still good quality until they moved production to china where build quality went downhill imo.

MBQ is no longer a name that people associate with SQ (unless its pre-Maxxsonics era gear), I hope to show some history as to what happened to MBQ and to some extent, what happened to car audio in general. I know some will already know or have direct experience, I'm just trying to enlighten those who have an interest.

Here's a translated article that very briefly touches on what happened. Source material is in the picture. Also, it's a review for a set of tower speakers made by GermanMaestro if you care to look at the product specs.

http://www.german-maestro.de/downloads/test_reports/stereoplay_9_09_linea_s_en.pdf

Second piece of information is from head-fi.org. Peter Grooff, headphones product mgr at MBQ from 04-08, provides his recollection of events from that timeframe. 



> Hi Y'all,
> 
> to put some things as straight as possible as the former Product & Sales Manager Headphones and Headsets at MB Quart (Jan 2004 - Mai 2008), this is what happened (I'm still working on a proper history on Wikipedia): in 2000 Rockford Fosgate bought MB Quart...mid September 2004, they literally left MB Quart for bankruptcy overnight. Mid September 2005, after one year in receivership, Maxxsonics USA, Inc. acquired MB Quart and established Maxxsonics GmbH. After 2 years (again mid September, meanwhile 2007), Maxxsonics GmbH was apparently bankrupted (I'm still checking on this, but it's hard to get exact info) and Maxxsonics took engineering and production to China. This ment, for the original MB Quart crew that they lost the brand name "MB Quart". Since October 2007, the brand name MB Quart is used for products made in China only, no NEW German Made products were developed under name MB Quart anymore... The future of the original MB Quart crew (including myself) was unsure month after month. After I accepted the Product Manager Headphones/Headsets/Headzone ProAudio job at beyerdynamic, the rest of the crew (approx. 30 employes were left over) joined forces, together with a German investor and purchased the assets of the German trustee. In May 2008 the original crew of MB Quart continued to produce, develop and engineer high quality German made products under the new name "German-Maestro Badenia" (G-MB).
> 
> It's strange....for a long time nobody really opened up and told the real story, at least the real story including all of the rumours etc.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/german-maestro-really-mb-quart.409886/page-2

For those who don't know, MBHO (MBHO GmbH Mikrofonbau Haun - handmade microphones) is the company owned by the legendary Herbert Haun (one of the first engineers at the original "MB", founded in 1962). Herbert Haun came from beyerdynamic... MBHO still produces and engineers the MB microphones, including the original Jecklin Disc.[\quote]

excerpt from an Aug 2005 press release:


> Due to continued losses at Rockford's MB Quart GmbH subsidiary in Germany, Rockford will discontinue the German operations of its subsidiary MB Quart GmbH. After considering several options, Rockford has decided to place MB Quart GmbH into receivership under German law. This action will eliminate approximately $750 thousand in operating loss per quarter and is expected to have a minimal cash impact. Rockford will continue to own and develop the MB Quart brand in North America. This will result in a reserve against its investment in the MB Quart German operations in the third quarter.


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## He's deaf

In a weird way, Maxxonics helped a lot of old fans- by ruining the brand rep, Maxxsonics made it so the old Reference gear is really inexpensive to buy these days. Pennies on the dollar.

I used to work as a quart dealer during the late 80's early 90's, then I left the industry. When I left, Quart was the ONLY option if you were a serious autosound player. 20 some odd years later, I have come back to the hobby and there's a lot of changes- outsourcing, no more retail shops (Internet distribution), brand consolidation, etc. Unfortunately Quart got robbed of it's name.

However, I still use old MBQ simply because 

1)- with the lack of good audio shops to demo gear I'm finding it extremely hard to take a chance by word of mouth. All the Quart I have is either NOS (a few Q pieces and Reference) or well worn used- it's cheap enough sucking a bad piece now and then doesn't hurt.

2)- I like the way they sound, and I have trained my ears to expect it. 

I haven't yet found a reliable source for German Maestro yet, fortunately I have enough tested good MBQ that I'll likely die before I run out.

Here's to hoping someday, they come back.


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## Angrywhopper

What I'd really like to know is why Mid-September RF left MBQ "for bankruptcy over night". 

RF is smart, wealthy and thriving. They are a company that has changed with the times and understands market demands. I don't think they'd just drop a company for no reason.. There's more behind this then what's been said..


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## rodburner

Very interesting. Glad now, that I bought all those sets with the QM 100 mids with the titanium dust on the cones,and the silk/titanium 1" tweeters. Lol they sound even better in my living room than they did in my car..


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## sirbOOm

Angrywhopper said:


> RF is smart, wealthy and thriving. They are a company that has changed with the times and understands market demands. I don't think they'd just drop a company for no reason.. There's more behind this then what's been said..


Speaking from experience as an M&A consultant, it is very difficult for an American company that is, relatively, small and inexperienced to own and run a German company. Germans have no interest in taking orders from Americans. They are "better, smarter, faster, more efficient, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc." and the parent company is "a burden to their German engineering perfection."

RF may have just wanted their IP.

Other than the 360.3, I have no interest in anything from RF today.


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## He's deaf

Anyone need a single QWD130 unused, new with grille hit me up. I'll sell it cheap if anyone needs a spare. 

I'm getting out of Q. If you're interested I'll send pics with my name all that, yada yada. PM me.


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## He's deaf

sirbOOm said:


> Speaking from experience as an M&A consultant, it is very difficult for an American company that is, relatively, small and inexperienced to own and run a German company. Germans have no interest in taking orders from Americans. They are "better, smarter, faster, more efficient, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc." and the parent company is "a burden to their German engineering perfection."
> 
> RF may have just wanted their IP.
> 
> Other than the 360.3, I have no interest in anything from RF today.


Exactly. I used to work at Daimler / Freightliner as PMO Business Analyst , the people in Germany gave zero control to to the Mericans, and killed them off in upper management. Forget even asking what WE think- they put one of their own in charge there. This is FREIGHTLINER, an American company.

Pretty uncool work environment as a result.

OH and yes, traditionally in Europe, society puts the Business Owner as higher status- above the customer. The customer is just a peasant and obviously doesn't understand the product if there's something wrong. The owners take offense if the customer complains about the product.


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## avhound

it's like most products i have been seeing and purchasing.
for example A Candy Bar darn near twice the price for half the size.


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## CAudio

Great thread. Sad to see what happened to MB Quart. I never liked the tweeters though “back in the good old days”.


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## diy.phil

I randomly saw MBQ on crutchfield the other day. My first thought was... wow maybe it's suddenly good stuff and safe to buy (we unequivocally trust crutchfield too much lol).


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## Hillbilly SQ

sirbOOm said:


> Speaking from experience as an M&A consultant, it is very difficult for an American company that is, relatively, small and inexperienced to own and run a German company. Germans have no interest in taking orders from Americans. They are "better, smarter, faster, more efficient, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc." and the parent company is "a burden to their German engineering perfection."
> 
> RF may have just wanted their IP.
> 
> Other than the 360.3, I have no interest in anything from RF today.


I think the brain of Germans is prewired to think that way. At least that's been my observation with my family between the full blooded Germans and German hybrids like myself.


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## Wiggler

I have an MB Quart ONYX 4.60 amp that I picked up brand new in 2012. I've never installed... should I preemptively get rid of it, now that I know the quality went downhill???


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## Gaprofitt

rodburner said:


> Very interesting. Glad now, that I bought all those sets with the QM 100 mids with the titanium dust on the cones,and the silk/titanium 1" tweeters. Lol they sound even better in my living room than they did in my car..


I totally agree, never was crazy about them..


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## JohnTB72

Sounds like almost the same story as...........

Eclipse
Alpine
Clarion 
Infinity
Phoenix Gold
Cadence
Memphis
Xtant
Image Dynamics

I miss the stereo shop I used to manage. We had almost all those brands in their heyday plus DD, Crystal, Rainbow, Interfire (literally, they all caught on fire), etc... They all had a purpose and a price range/demographic that made them all viable products in the same ecosystem. 

Then much like EVERYTHING ELSE I USE IN LIFE the NWO decided the WHOLE WORLD could have mediocre car audio with a massive profit margin instead if we just make it with slaves in China............ And if we whore it all out on the internet for $1 over dealer we won't even need car audio stores anymore....

"Why did RF buy it and bankrupt it overnight?" 

Easy also. Same thing that happened with alot of home audio brands in '08 when things hit the skids. Buy your competition and eliminate them....



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## LBaudio

It seems like Harman International practice to buy and shut down good manufacturers to put away competition.

I met with a few German Maestro speaker sets, but I got feeling that they are of lower quality than old Quarts were


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## Canena

Thanks for the help, friends.


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## imickey503

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I think the brain of Germans is prewired to think that way. At least that's been my observation with my family between the full blooded Germans and German hybrids like myself.


Q: What would an Amp Topology look like that was German and American? 
A: Das Fukt!


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## tulowd

Very Interesting Info. I worked installing car audio and selling mostly mid to higher end gear (Orion, Fosgate ,Canton, Pioneer) at retail from 1982 until 1990. Then became Product Manager and ran the National Installation Center for Pioneer Electronics of Canada for 6 years. Built their demo car fleet, ran the tech support and was part of the new product development team, incl IMPP subs, GMH amps and the ODR reference system. Funny how a ******* installer knew things about installing the engineers at head office didn't think of or comprende until you showed them, lol........ We surpassed Alpine as the largest car audio company in Canada in '92 when we hit over $30M in sales. Pioneer was the worldwide leader in (aftermarket)car audio sales and still a private company then. Despite the history of developing the world;s first dynamic loudspeaker in 1938, they were usually real good value for the money until you got into the top end stuff which had its own sound but wasn;t any better than the MB, Boston or some of the other specialty brands. Competing products like the ceramic/carbon dome tweeters T31 and the ODR stuff was eye wateringly expensive. I judged a ton of IASCA cars containing MB Quart and always really liked the warmth and detail. Can't comment on the amps, but the speakers were some of my favourites and certainly a target for our higher end product planning at Pioneer. 

Like the OP, I have recently gotten back into car audio in a relatively serious way. Purchased three dozen different amps (mostly Orion HCCA and Fosgate) as well as piles of subs and components - mostly MB and Focal as well as some Alpine stuff. Just like newer digital amps offer a different experience (and I'm being gentle in my Germanic way), so too, new speakers seem to lack some of the nuances that were present in the early 90s reference level stuff. I'm guessing dollar value today is much higher for entry level products (maybe cause the OEM is no longer rancid dogshit, only crap now) but in my mind nothing comes close to the golden era of the early 90s when everyone was competing on performance, not cost. Low impedance bridging, and real sound Q with hardwired, phased and tuned passive crossovers, except for of course the subs. Still the way I design and install most of my systems. 
Old skool, analog (except for a CD source) and half German, half Austrian.....don't ask for my opinion if you don' like the truth, lol. I lived in Germany Switzerland and Austria, have family there and certainly carry the DNA of Germanic self assured superiority......altho I am wrong on the rare occasion...... 

Thx for the history on what occurred between two of the prime brands of the most important era of our hobby. Installed and owned my first The Punch amp/booster in 1982........


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## dcfis

What speakers don't have the nuances? There is some really good stuff out there


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## tulowd

dcfis said:


> What speakers don't have the nuances? There is some really good stuff out there


The whole mishmash of new brands I've heard in various cars over the past few years. Not talking about $1200 Focal components but mostly mid ranged $$ Chinese made stuff. Not even close to the old MB or Boston that sold for $300/set.


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## dcfis

I don't know man i went back and bought all the top tier mbq and the raw driver game bested them easily. Not to say they weren't good but tweets have changed and mids have many mm more travel than the mbq


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## tulowd

dcfis said:


> I don't know man i went back and bought all the top tier mbq and the raw driver game bested them easily. Not to say they weren't good but tweets have changed and mids have many mm more travel than the mbq


you are talking about current or recent products presumably. I'm comparing older stuff vs new. Raw drivers have come a long way in the past decade vs before that;s for sure. 
I'm talking mid fi retail level stuff is where MB and those other brands really offered performance value and durability.

Of course there are lots of gems at various sizes and price points. My favourite installs were $2500 systems that sounded and rocked like something worth double the money. Thats what a good installer does between knowing the best product and how to make it all work, $$ efficiently.
Big smiles and thank yous were the order of the day.


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## dcfis

Ah you mean regular series mbq offering a taste of high end for a good price. Maybe you're right but I'd put the Stevens component set, and the si component set. Also heard some ground zero and b2 components i was impressed with. It's out there man it's just now at every dealer across town like it used to be


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## SkizeR

tulowd said:


> and half German, half Austrian.....don't ask for my opinion if you don' like the truth, lol. I lived in Germany Switzerland and Austria, have family there and certainly carry the DNA of Germanic self assured superiority...


ummmmm. are you saying what i think you're saying?


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## rton20s

SkizeR said:


> ummmmm. are you saying what i think you're saying?


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## tulowd

You Wwhill Do as ur told!! Dummkopf!! lol


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## tulowd

dcfis said:


> Ah you mean regular series mbq offering a taste of high end for a good price. Maybe you're right but I'd put the Stevens component set, and the si component set. Also heard some ground zero and b2 components i was impressed with. It's out there man it's just now at every dealer across town like it used to be


Have you ever heard an old MB Quart high end install ? The brand absolutely DOMINATED Sound Q across North America and elsewhere; budget was the last thing on people's mind to win an IASCA competition, a regional or national event. Would be curious to read your reaction. New isn't necessarily better, altho it can be. 

Probably similar to the analog vs DSP disagreements, digital amps vs old school unlimited current A/B, etc.
New Car Audio Product Development is always about profit, saving production costs, hitting market price targets first....'quality and performance" is usually way down the list, certainly below specifications/marketing ******** and being able to stay in business. That is a fact; I worked in that world for almost 10 years and the survivors have managed to leverage China as the bread basket; anything still built elsewhere and to those levels is outrageously expensive and esoteric by all standards. I guess change is always happening.

Plenty of signs the car audio world has fallen down when reading most product specifications and the new trend of 'big' power and inefficient speakers along with meaningless amp power specifications, low damping factors and all kinds of digital voodoo that doesn't work.


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## rton20s

tulowd said:


> Have you ever heard an old MB Quart high end install ? The brand absolutely DOMINATED Sound Q across North America and elsewhere; budget was the last thing on people's mind to win an IASCA competition, a regional or national event. Would be curious to read your reaction. New isn't necessarily better, altho it can be.
> 
> Probably similar to the analog vs DSP disagreements, digital amps vs old school unlimited current A/B, etc.
> New Car Audio Product Development is always about profit, saving production costs, hitting market price targets first....'quality and performance" is usually way down the list, certainly below specifications/marketing ******** and being able to stay in business. That is a fact; I worked in that world for almost 10 years and the survivors have managed to leverage China as the bread basket; anything still built elsewhere and to those levels is outrageously expensive and esoteric by all standards. I guess change is always happening.
> 
> Plenty of signs the car audio world has fallen down when reading most product specifications and the new trend of 'big' power and inefficient speakers along with meaningless amp power specifications, low damping factors and all kinds of digital voodoo that doesn't work.


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## dcfis

I know they did, i ran them i competed with them, besides the Boston's they were there best around. We aren't doing kick panels anymore either so the larger format tweets of the current crop helps out too


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## tulowd

rton20s said:


>


 wow, a pleasant surprise....I figured you to be bald and less slim  

Hope you're staying Corona free


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## rton20s

tulowd said:


> wow, a pleasant surprise....I figured you to be bald and less slim
> 
> Hope you're staying Corona free


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## hankhowdy1

I have never heard MB Quart speakers, but I did just buy a set of QWS-100 4” mids. I did only based on their reputation. I needed a low profile driver and these fit the bill. 

The German made Q line seem to have a good reputation, so I took the leap. 

I will be using them in a MK5 Golf/Rabbit/GTI/Jetta 3 way front stage in factory locations. With the midbass located in rear of the front door near your hip, the midrange is needed to really pick up the slack. 

I hope they live up to their reputation. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dcfis

Ok heard a today guys focal access components and did a bit of rew. Those are modern day quarts at a $200 discount. Quarts are finished!


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## WhiplashMotorbreath

MEH.
The bottom fell out of high end car audio and home audio in the mid 2000's.
Most hifi shops folded leaving the hi end gear with no where to market and sell their gear.
Walmart and best buy ,etc are not going to move high end stuff if they even entertain carrying it.
The I-pod also had a big part of this. Many took function over pure sonic sound,as the tiny player could hold a LOT of music.
Auto makers started making their radios in odd sizes and sometime the tuner was oe piece the cassette deck another, the c/d changer yet another. and not standard din shaped.
Many of the better names in audio expanded too much thinking the good times would never end.
And when the bottom fell out they were on the razrs edge, Then ebay happened and anyone could sell the cheap gear and you could window shop for it at home, Where you used to haveto goto the once or twice audio convention. (at least here). now it was on your computer shipped to your home, and wally world was forcing brands to meet THEIR price point if they wanted to have their product in the store.
As this is going on, the auto makers are now, making the car audio unit part of the central command center with nav, heater and ac controls, at first then almost all user controls/setting. Making it even harder for high end audio to sell a unit that fit a bunch of vehicles and not JUST that one, and only a few years of that nameplate.
As this is going on, the US economy took a dump. The last thing people were thinking about was buying high end car audio or home hifi .
The buyer pool was not big enough to stay afloat at the high end or even the mid range alone.
Some added cheaper lines to move product and get their gear into box stores as the stand alone hifi stores were now too small of a pool to be able to move enough product.
Some to lower cost, BECAUSE people were buying the ebay cheap stuff, moved production to China and others.
The economy and timing of auto makers intergrting more and more with the radio. But many AUDIO brands in the icu. on life support. 
Home gear was in the same boat. buying a 2900.00 B&K receiver was out of the question for most by 2008. IF you could find a audio shop that carried them. or other mid to high end. 
People changed, Those that enjoyed playing music/movies on hifi gear, hearing is on the way out. So less need to bother with replacing stuff with the mid to high end, and they buy the Sony. 
The younger folks are used to compressed music and could not afford the mid to high end hifi gear anyways.
I mean, most homes if they have a stereo it is a sound bar and maybe a small sub. And maybe a small set of bookshelf speakers.
Today even getting the music in a good format to play on mid to high end gear is a pain. But your whole life music catalog is only a click to youtube away, or any of the other streaming music apps. Hard to support the idea of top shelf gear when the source material is going to be compressed garbage. 
This all made the pool of buyers of mid to high end gear too small for the number of companies/brands to fight over. 
I don't own high high end gear. Mine is mid to high end range. And it sounds sweet. But I have a room full of analog music to play on it. People today have their music collection on a 3"x6"x1/4" wireless computer.
To top it all off, forvehicle audio, the o.e.m.s offer systems from the factory that are light years better than what was the top option radios decades ago. So even less of a pool that feel the need to upgrade.
MBQ is just one of many that found their standing in an F4 storm. 
Sadly the younger generations will never get a chance to hear an analog format recording that offered large DB punch. 
And gear with enough headroom to product that sonic punch. Today only sonic punch they get is the boosted bass. not the full range sonic db rise punch that is missing in most of today's music. No matter what type of music.


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## metanium

Blah, Blah, Blah...said the sad guy suffering from a lot of "good 'ole day syndrome" that found/joined DIYMA 4 days ago...Get off my lawn!


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## WhiplashMotorbreath

metanium said:


> Blah, Blah, Blah...said the sad guy suffering from a lot of "good 'ole day syndrome" that found/joined DIYMA 4 days ago...Get off my lawn!


Well that is your opinion, and you are welcome to have it.
Some lived it, and saw it happen, it was their reality. Sorry if that hurt your feelings.


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## JohnTB72

WhiplashMotorbreath said:


> Well that is your opinion, and you are welcome to have it.
> Some lived it, and saw it happen, it was their reality. Sorry if that hurt your feelings.


I saw it... And I lived it (Still have most of my CA&E mags from the 90's so I can go back and relive it from time to time). Happened pretty much how you said it.... Still being in home audio retail to this day I put most of the blame on the manufacturers though. They could've protected their brands like the home side did and supported their dealer network. Instead most chose to look the other way and let the guy who was willing to make $10 a transaction on ebay rob our customer base from us. Once they realized the mistake it was too little too late... There were 11 successful car audio shops all within 30 minutes of me in the mid 90's. By the mid 2000's that was 5. Mid 2010's.... 3. Now it's 1 and he stays in business because he also wires and outfits all the new police and fire vehicles for the county and that's his real bread and butter.

Meanwhile I can still get a pioneer head unit at "dealer cost" through my distributor. But unless you are buying the biggest baddest one by the time I pay to ship it to me mark it up $25 and charge you sales tax it's still cheaper on ebay. 

The OEM's have ruined the head unit market but the new cars have more options for big speakers and 3 way component sets in great factory locations than ever. Still plenty of opportunities to make money on that from for the people that stock will just never satisfy if you can keep them from bargain shopping themselves into garbage. 




Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Sancetiano

WhiplashMotorbreath said:


> MEH.
> The bottom fell out of high end car audio and home audio in the mid 2000's.
> Most hifi shops folded leaving the hi end gear with no where to market and sell their gear.
> Walmart and best buy ,etc are not going to move high end stuff if they even entertain carrying it.
> The I-pod also had a big part of this. Many took function over pure sonic sound,as the tiny player could hold a LOT of music.
> Auto makers started making their radios in odd sizes and sometime the tuner was oe piece the cassette deck another, the c/d changer yet another. and not standard din shaped.
> Many of the better names in audio expanded too much thinking the good times would never end.
> And when the bottom fell out they were on the razrs edge, Then ebay happened and anyone could sell the cheap gear and you could window shop for it at home, Where you used to haveto goto the once or twice audio convention. (at least here). now it was on your computer shipped to your home, and wally world was forcing brands to meet THEIR price point if they wanted to have their product in the store.
> As this is going on, the auto makers are now, making the car audio unit part of the central command center with nav, heater and ac controls, at first then almost all user controls/setting. Making it even harder for high end audio to sell a unit that fit a bunch of vehicles and not JUST that one, and only a few years of that nameplate.
> As this is going on, the US economy took a dump. The last thing people were thinking about was buying high end car audio or home hifi .
> The buyer pool was not big enough to stay afloat at the high end or even the mid range alone.
> Some added cheaper lines to move product and get their gear into box stores as the stand alone hifi stores were now too small of a pool to be able to move enough product.
> Some to lower cost, BECAUSE people were buying the ebay cheap stuff, moved production to China and others.
> The economy and timing of auto makers intergrting more and more with the radio. But many AUDIO brands in the icu. on life support.
> Home gear was in the same boat. buying a 2900.00 B&K receiver was out of the question for most by 2008. IF you could find a audio shop that carried them. or other mid to high end.
> People changed, Those that enjoyed playing music/movies on hifi gear, hearing is on the way out. So less need to bother with replacing stuff with the mid to high end, and they buy the Sony.
> The younger folks are used to compressed music and could not afford the mid to high end hifi gear anyways.
> I mean, most homes if they have a stereo it is a sound bar and maybe a small sub. And maybe a small set of bookshelf speakers.
> Today even getting the music in a good format to play on mid to high end gear is a pain. But your whole life music catalog is only a click to youtube away, or any of the other streaming music apps. Hard to support the idea of top shelf gear when the source material is going to be compressed garbage.
> This all made the pool of buyers of mid to high end gear too small for the number of companies/brands to fight over.
> I don't own high high end gear. Mine is mid to high end range. And it sounds sweet. But I have a room full of analog music to play on it. People today have their music collection on a 3"x6"x1/4" wireless computer.
> To top it all off, forvehicle audio, the o.e.m.s offer systems from the factory that are light years better than what was the top option radios decades ago. So even less of a pool that feel the need to upgrade.
> MBQ is just one of many that found their standing in an F4 storm.
> Sadly the younger generations will never get a chance to hear an analog format recording that offered large DB punch.
> And gear with enough headroom to product that sonic punch. Today only sonic punch they get is the boosted bass. not the full range sonic db rise punch that is missing in most of today's music. No matter what type of music.


What you said is all true. The old analog format songs has much better sound quality than many mainstream digital MP3 songs available for free. Most audio enthusiasts know that.
Humbly saying, I don't understand what is the point of mentioning àll that while discussing about a car audio brand.


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## Old'sCool

I was already blowing fuses when the first car CD players were released. They had a CARTRIDGE to hold the single CD, and many of them were practically worse than the cassette decks they replaced.

There was no "double DIN," unless it was OEM. 

We sold Proton, Coustic, MTX, Atomic and Linear Power. Eventually, we offered Phoenix Gold and HiFonics.

I remember when a JENSEN head unit was considered an upgrade.

Hell, I even remember when the Metra rep showed us the "state of the art" wiring adapters they were offering for 1984 Fords. You could install a head unit without clipping a single factory wire. Yippeee.

I ran the 1st gen aperiodic membranes from Autosound 2000 in the mid 1990s, and my car system rivalled the best home stereos you've ever heard (and that's not hyperbole).


I remember the sweet sounds of REAL Boston 6.4 pro components and A.D.S. sq amps.

There's a Phoenix M25 in my shed, and somehwere buried in my attic is a Soundstream 50.2 "50 Watt" amp that I used to MOLEST a pair of MTX Blue Thunder 10s with. 

MB Quart always struck me as sweet sounding, but I was never overwhelmed with their longevity or imaging compared to other high-end players like Boston and even some of PG's highest line of components. 

There are a handful of decent players left in the car audio scene, but today I'm content with Kappas and a decent 4-ch amp. As stated by others above, with most source music compressed crap these days, you're really wasting money on anything higher-end than Harman's mid+ level gear.

The Class AB, Made in USA days are long gone. These are the days of China, Korea, eBay and Amazon. 

Sadly, it's not just audio; even Swiss watches and German medical devices are outsourced to Asia, with just enough labor in their supposed countries of origin to carry "Made in Germany," or "SWISS MADE" logos.

We went from audiophile-grade gear to Flea Market surplus in the past 20 yrs, for sure.


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## mat3833

I currently run a set of Quart 218.61q comps on the original crossovers in my system. They are powered by a Zed Mikro IV, fed off of a Kenwood x704(non-cd). I have had them for 12ish years through 4 vehicles, at least a dozen different installs, 7 stage amps, and uncountable substage. Here shortly I'll be "upgrading" to a set of Hertz Mille legend comps or a similar "high end" 2 way passive set. 

I absolutely love my quarts, "harsh tweeter" and all. I believe they were the top of the line before the "QSD" series came out with the silver cones. Mine use the same tweeter as the QSD but the mid is different. I WILL NOT be selling my QMs. They will be installed in my second vehicle. And honestly, I don't expect whatever speaker I replace them with to sound any better, so I may end up keeping them in my daily and putting the "new" and or "better" comps in my new vehicle. 

I don't know many people who have old quart sets anymore, nobody local to me for sure. If anyone happens to be in the Central Florida area and wants a listen hit me up. My recent install isn't completely finished and I'm sure my ears aren't true "audiophile" quality, but I love giving demos and looking at people's reactions when I tell them they are hearing a 20+ year old speaker. 

Matt


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## kattan_tha_man

JohnTB72 said:


> Sounds like almost the same story as...........
> 
> Eclipse
> Alpine
> Clarion
> Infinity
> Phoenix Gold
> Cadence
> Memphis
> Xtant
> Image Dynamics
> 
> I miss the stereo shop I used to manage. We had almost all those brands in their heyday plus DD, Crystal, Rainbow, Interfire (literally, they all caught on fire), etc... They all had a purpose and a price range/demographic that made them all viable products in the same ecosystem.
> 
> Then much like EVERYTHING ELSE I USE IN LIFE the NWO decided the WHOLE WORLD could have mediocre car audio with a massive profit margin instead if we just make it with slaves in China............ And if we whore it all out on the internet for $1 over dealer we won't even need car audio stores anymore....
> 
> "Why did RF buy it and bankrupt it overnight?"
> 
> Easy also. Same thing that happened with alot of home audio brands in '08 when things hit the skids. Buy your competition and eliminate them....
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I agree with you about infinity going downhill, but on the bright side JBL seems to be on an upswing. Pretty much the same stuff but with higher end options.


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## kattan_tha_man

It seems to me that while the good ole brands are no more, better sound has gotten A LOT cheaper overall.


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## Old'sCool

kattan_tha_man said:


> I agree with you about infinity going downhill, but on the bright side JBL seems to be on an upswing. Pretty much the same stuff but with higher end options.


Gotta disagree with Infinity (for the most part) going downhill. They still offer some great speakers for the money. Sure, their budget stuff is lower-grade, but it's also 2021 and (most) consumers won't buy $200 coaxes at Best Buy. 

Infinity/JBL are essentially the same thing. You can almost always find an identical model across most/many of their lineups.

The JBL amps are Infinity amps in a new shell. Both borrow from Harman's home tech, too.


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## Old'sCool

kattan_tha_man said:


> It seems to me that while the good ole brands are no more, better sound has gotten A LOT cheaper overall.


This is very true. To go back to Infinity again...Compare a set of older Infinitys...say, a $289 pair of Kappa 5.25 coaxes from 1999 to the $99 pair today. $289 in 1999 money is like $418 or more. So, you're getting Chinese made stuff these days, which sounds 80% as good, for less than 30% of the 1999 price. It's a trade-off spawned by the need to meet consumer demand.

People used to wait WEEKS for mail order. These days, if they don't have a tracking # by the next night, they moan and whine and leave a bad review.


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## kattan_tha_man

Old'sCool said:


> This is very true. To go back to Infinity again...Compare a set of older Infinitys...say, a $289 pair of Kappa 5.25 coaxes from 1999 to the $99 pair today. $289 in 1999 money is like $418 or more. So, you're getting Chinese made stuff these days, which sounds 80% as good, for less than 30% of the 1999 price. It's a trade-off spawned by the need to meet consumer demand.
> 
> People used to wait WEEKS for mail order. These days, if they don't have a tracking # by the next night, they moan and whine and leave a bad review.


It's a tradoff we have to deal with. and I love how you put it. 80% quality for 30% cost. Maybe I'm getting old, but I'll take that.


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## RNBRAD

I still have my old reference 3 way MB-Quarts in my 89 Comp truck running off 1st gen Mcintosh amps. All the equipment in there is 27-31 years old except for the Audio Control DQXS which replaced a dead RF Symmetry. What a change in SQ just from switching out the Symmetry to Audio control!! Lol. The midrange and midbass drivers are incredible even to today standards. Only issue I have are the tweeters take some tuning smooth out the harshness. I have AF in another car and thought of changing out just the tweeters but then again I want to keep it as old school as I can. I still have some RKC-110's I've had sitting in a box forever as a just in case replacement when things went south for German manufacturing.


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## jtkc7

this has been a very good read. i came across it from a MBQ related web search. i turned 16 in 93 and had my first car as soon as i had my license. while i may not of been fully active in the car audio scene of the mid 90's i did usually have some sort of not oem stereo setup in every vehicle i owned and drove. i did maintain a subscription to Car audio mag among other magazines at the time (3&4 wheel atv, RC car magazines, lol and had a couple active memeberships to bmg and columbia house cd music stores, 20 cds for a $1 or something like that. and i had friends quite a few that did have the extra cash that alllowed them to have system setups like a buddys firebird running 3 jl 10 w6's off a og hifionics zues or thor amp with a ppi art series 404 and a ppi pc series (still usa made) multi ch xcross over, with mbq pro components and ppi comp series? or whatever their premium line of coaxial were, and a couple others who were running jlw1 10's 12's and 15's, one of them was running a mbq pro mids highs and a pair of jl 15's and borrrowed a friends pair of jl w1 10's also running a zues or thor hifionics amp and i think soundstream or ppi amp for the highs with a clarion cd deck in his 89 4dr integra hit 150db in that thing at a local i want to say brandsmart db comp 

so between reading cover to cover every article and then taking from what friends would talk about, etc i kept up with things

my first intro to car audio systems and the lot started off with a pair of lanzar pro? 8's in a box that i got on trading
this list kinda goes in a somewhat timeline but i cant recall exact dates or precise timelines for this part of it,
the guy a silver painted with blue yellow stripss around the MTX logo 2 or 3 way xover i found at a discount retail surplus place, then had a pulliout la sound tape deck, psl a150 amp, then a pair of petra 10's, what i believe was the GRANITE series Soundstream multi ch xover (it had a designated center ch in or output as well as front rear mid high channel outs on it, a blue and aluminum colored Orion Cobalt series amp, Crunch procast 6.5 mid drivers, (crunch logo was pink and blue and yellow colors the magnets and baskets were bigger than cone and surrrounds on damn things lol, ive had a pair of super blue 12's urban audio or audio god multi ch system amp. learned the entry level at the time 94, standard so to say guide lines of how to build a proper sealed or ported enclosure. jammed to nemesis munchies, AMG, dj quick, etc

then some ******* broke into my car,, stole my amp rack and that prety much was when i paused on big system installs in my rides, but i maintained keeping up to date, we all pretty much acquired our gear from this one local private car audio shop who is pretty much the only shop that made it through all those early 2000 years and is still in businness, does a lot of toxi loc installs, has expanded to doing more tint jobs, has pretty much maintained the same installers he orignally had when he opened in mid 90's he was the only JL auth retailer for car audio in this area and still is, his other inventory would vary slightly over the years, he kept up with where the amplifier engineers migrated to of certain companies, ie the original XTANT audio amp designers, and Zapco, and zed and then etc and has always carried some nice quality audio brands over the years

i bought a component set of Diamond audio M3 series components that i got from the owner on a discount, as i knew to always go in and ask him what he might have back in the store room collecting dust lol. and originally bought a clarion cd player, then made the shift to Kenwood Excelon, which this was back in 03, and ive had an excelon h/u ever since,

my sorta point in commmenting on this thread is because with my current setup i kinda seem to fall into the middle ground of what yoiu might say might be a really decent potluck sorta configured audio system.
MY main theme being See how much SQ WOW you can find/ squeeze out of the gear, for the best lowest investment price if possible and stay within your monthly budget, 

i have had this luck you might call it of coming across some decent albeit random deals on car audio as well as other various items,

so why i say that i have a mix up of old new and inbetween
my current setup
pair of jbl gto 629 6.5 coax scored these in a bundle buy from a guy selling his setup
that included a 5,25 jbl gto coax
alpine bluetooth doubble din with nav headunit
jbl entry level 8
and the main item that caused me to comment AN MBQ FORMULA FX1.400 AB CLASS MONO AMP 200X1 400X1 @2OHM RMS
that i bought for 300 bucks 
2 pairs of infinity 6.5 6032 reference coax 50/pair off amazon back in 2013
Alpine Mrv-f357 multi ch multiconfig v12 series amp that wasnt in prestine physical condition but it operates flawlessly bought off fb marketplace for the bargain price of $35 bucks
also haave a polk MM1240 um series dvc 12in sub picked up for 75 $ deliverd to my door, NOS, and scored a 50ft roll of auth Hyper twist premieum ofc 0 awg stinger power wire for 190$ shipped to me, and stinger krome premium dist blocks and other hardware for the same steep discounted prices 

now back on point, Having run the alpine mrv-f357 in full 5ch operation and then running it only with the 4ch for my 2 sets of coax, and then having that MBQ formula Fx1.400 ab mono amp (which i call it a sq amp due its on paper low THD at 12.5v and hearing it play, im no expert or snob nor do i know what year it was made it does have the MAXSONIC logo on the side or end cap panel but it runs smooth sounds great for a sub amp i never thought they made ab class mono sub amps, but having bought it in a bundle deal and it essentialy costing me 50 bucks, i cant say anything bad really about it. 

that mrv-f357 makes my infinity 6032cf reference 6.5 coax's sing LOUD AF and the clarity is beautiful makes the jbl's do the same
rest of gear is in sig hu dpx793bh, 
ive found some uncompressed or i guess hires hifi version of certain iconic songs one that is synomous that most anyone will know that has gone somewhere and had the sales man at the audio store demo you some speakers 
Live performance of hotel california, 

now im never one to overstate, or state something hastily or thats not been vetted via extensive repeated siimliar input 
but when i have the system at full volume, and that song playing, (alan parsons project eye in the sky hiq version also has same results) and i get people that have made me stop in the paraking lot outside some restuarant or retail store and they appear to listfully trvel back to a time in place when they heard them livew and then thank me and compliment the stereo system all maybe 350 total rms watts of it (including the 200rms for the subwoofer ) and it sounds way better than the when i have the New Kenwood excelon XR 901-5 system amp hooked up for mids n highs (there are slight or minute differences i notice, in comparing the v12 apline to the kenwood, but the v12 sounds superb imo and i love my infinity's and aim to purchase a set of kappas because if reference series sound as amazing as they do i cant imagine just how to much better the kappas will sound.. 

anyways idk if this is confusing if it helps just hope it contributes, i didnt set out to buy a max sonic era mbq product, but and i might of jsut happened to get the right year mfg amp without knowing it but its not a bad buy at all, idk how in comaparison it would be to mid 90's mbq but im pleased with the money spent and sound made from it.

also there was ONE other audio company that always seemed to be MBQ competion in profesional builds in the magazines and at comps for SQ and that was OZ AUDIO when they had the superman shaped icon with pearl reflective font color id always see either that series OZ audio mids n tweets or MBQ pro in the builds


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## INFRNL

Supposedly the original MB quart are still around, just under a different name. Still made in the exact same factory in Germany.

I can't currently remember the name, I'd have to look

German Maestro... someone might have already mentioned this


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## Patriot83

INFRNL said:


> Supposedly the original MB quart are still around, just under a different name. Still made in the exact same factory in Germany.
> 
> I can't currently remember the name, I'd have to look


German Maestro I think but can't confirm if they are top quality like MB Quart was back in the day. I had some of MB Quart's best speakers. They were some of if not the best back in the day.


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## INFRNL

Patriot83 said:


> German Maestro I think but can't confirm if they are top quality like MB Quart was back in the day. I had some of MB Quart's best speakers. They were some of if not the best back in the day.


Supposedly they are of the same quality but i haven't heard them either.

MB quart and A/D/S were my favorites back then. I couldn't afford mb quart and our shop didn't carry them, so i got my A/D/S for excellent prices. My favorite speakers to this day. Sadly I don't have them anymore


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## Patriot83

INFRNL said:


> Supposedly they are of the same quality but i haven't heard them either.
> 
> MB quart and A/D/S were my favorites back then. I couldn't afford mb quart and our shop didn't carry them, so i got my A/D/S for excellent prices. My favorite speakers to this day. Sadly I don't have them anymore


We're going WAY back but ADS was the the orig best. That was a long time ago. Car speakers have changed since then.


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## INFRNL

Patriot83 said:


> We're going WAY back but ADS was the the orig best. That was a long time ago. Car speakers have changed since then.


yeah, I've noticed and I'm not as happy as I once was, LOL

I graduated in 91 I believe, 17 going on 18 iirc and started getting into car audio when I was 16, will be 49 this year. But I don't think I bought My AL6's until I was around 20.
I used to only go to one shop for all my gear, shortly after I spent a ton of money on car audio and home audio; I ended up getting a job there doing custom home installation but had access to killer discounts. I will not pay retail for anything ever again unless I'm desperate. Everyone is just greedy anymore and not willing to help others.

Another benefit to working at a shop is access to a variety of equipment.


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## xBlitzkriegx

Patriot83 said:


> German Maestro I think but can't confirm if they are top quality like MB Quart was back in the day. I had some of MB Quart's best speakers. They were some of if not the best back in the day.


GM literally _IS_ old MB Quart. this is explained in the first post. now, five years later, this may not be the case any longer but it was correct at the time of the initial post. 

additionally, im pretty sure maxxsonics worked out something with GM right around the 08-10 timeframe because for a while, they both used the identical tweeter designs. they shared the .75" tweeters most of us remember but also a 40mm titanium tweeter before GM moved on to their own titanium, reverse dome, ceramic coated tweeters. interestingly enough. you can buy GM speakers that still use the EXACT SAME .75" tweeters from back in the day.

Fake MB Quart has since moved on to silk dome for a bit but iirc they currently use shrill aluminum domes on the cheapest lines, then titanium, then finally magnesium domes for their top of the line.


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## sushieats

Oh wow. I thought he looked familiar. He's featured in 5Star Audio's AudioControl tour.


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## troy1160

Good thing I still have 2 pairs of ADS 320i and 2 pairs of 300i speakers and an old Soundstream and ADS amp.


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## chuyler1

Greetings, long time no see. Like others, I’ve been out of the loop for a while and it was good to catch up with current (aka decade old) events and brand consolidations.

I was pretty active here through the mid to late 00’s (I guess the kids call this time period the Oughts?). Then I got into working on home speakers and old cars and the local scene seemed to dissipate. When I pulled my dream system from 2007 out of the car in 2014 to trade it in, it just never ended up in the new vehicle, except for that JBL MS8 which basically made a factory system sound better than I could ever tune anyway. Now between my wife and I we have 5 vehicles and I realize if I’m keeping some of the classic rides they really need better sound for cruising. 

At a yard sale last year I happened across a complete set of Q series 6.5” components, the seller had no idea what he had which confused me at first, but I played along and took home a set of tweeters, woofers, and crossovers along with a Nakamichi 60x2 amp for about $30. Turns out one of the tweeters was blown but I have sourced a replacement that should arrive soon. i listened to a lot of different equipment through the first part of this century but never sat in a car nice enough to have these components. I am already impressed with what they can do in a cardboard box.

it saddens me to see the brand has gone the way of so many others. I knew this before even reading the thread after finding newish MB Quart gear for sale on FB Marketplace and Craigslist at flea market prices with comments like “bought this subwoofer to replace my Sony but I don’t like it and just resinstalled my old sub”.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to some future installs in our toys, perhaps I’ll document them like the good old days. I suspect I may just end up sourcing old trusted gear though, because I am finding it difficult to navigate the brands to know what is on par with what I used to consider high end but not snake oil.


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## OldOneEye

What a stroll down memory lane. Seems like a little bit of context was missing.

Rockford Fosgate felt like they had to be a one stop shop. Despite the fact that they had some engineering horsepower of their own making component speakers, the perception was they couldn’t make SQ speakers. And generally speaking, speakers have had more margin that amplifiers do. 

So they bought MB Quart. Bought lightning audio too. At that time it was pretty narrow offering with minimal overlap between the three brands. Lightning Audio made accessories. MB Quart made speakers and components and Rockford made amps, woofers, speakers and accessories.

By about the time they dumped MB Quart, MB Quart had subs, amps and speakers. Lightning had subs, amps, accessories and speakers (offered in good, better, best) and Rockford had subs, speakers, amps, signal processors and accessories (most with a good, better, best offering). So a TON of overlap here of product that competed against each other in quality and in price. 

Also, I believe the MB Quart side was very hesitant of making any changes to the product or to how is was being made. It was expensive to make and lots of it was made by hand. Also the product didn’t seem to have really changed with the times (keep in mind Rockford was making amps and subs in the US so it wasn’t like they wanted Chinese type of costs and production output, just more efficiency (possibly through updated product but also probably through automation).

But that didn’t happen. German labor laws didn’t exactly make it easy. The worker is well protected so if you wanted to let go of someone with a few years under their belt in seniority it would cost you lots in severance, unemployment and retraining costs. Think the United Auto Workers union but at a much larger scale (so across most the workforce I guess). 

So now Rockford had designed high end speakers in their Rockford Fosgate and Lightning Audio brands and felt like they might not need MB Quart as much.

So next comes Maxxsonics. Best I can say is all the same economic, dated product and cost of production factors were still there that Rockford encountered. Maybe the plan all along was to buy the IP and turn the lights off on production in one of the most expensive countries to hand make stuff, I don’t honestly know. Maybe they thought they had leverage and reached an impasse in negotiations. This part of the story is more murky. But pulling the plug is what happened. 

A reminder that a lot of our favorite companies (3 out of the 4 that dominated IASCA in the late 80s - early 90s) all changed hands. PPI, Streetwire and MB Quart. JL Audio was the exception of that one (and for good reason, I think they stayed in their lane and when they went into new fields (amplifiers, home audio) they took their time and did it right. Several others (Orion, Soundstream) faced similar fates. Most of these killed themselves slowly. Of course many made great product but if you're barely breaking even on each one or even losing money of course the consumer is getting a deal. (Like buying a new Chrysler in 2009 when they had $8000 rebates and incentives to get their duds off the lot).


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## Genesis

Interesting post (was one of the recommended ones on bottom of page). I never liked quarts. Boston was always much better sounding to me, and focal was on another level entirely. Still interesting to learn about some of the back story.


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