# Good 10 inch subwoofer



## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

Who really makes a good 10 inch subwoofer these days? I am looking for a single 10 inch subwoofer that you can find at a dealer. Something that is in a sealed enclosure not more than a cu ft that will go in the trunk of a sedan. Something that sounds good with all types of music but under the $300 range. 

So far I came across these:
1. JL Audio 8w3
2. Hertz Energy 10
3. Morel Primo 10
4. CDT Audio HD 1000CF 
5. Illusion Audio [Their cheapest one is $299 if I am not mistaken].

I am staying away from these brands:
1. Digital Designs
2. JBL
3 Soundstream
4. Kicker
5. Image Dynamics
6. All flea market brands.


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## vulgamore89 (Oct 27, 2013)

Image dynamics IDQ10v3
Car Speakers & Amplifiers | Ontario, CA


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

HAT Claurus 10 i just put in is in my opinion a step up from my previous Image Dynamics subs.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

A dealer will usually stick to just a couple brands, most likely JL, Alpine or Kicker. So your sub choice might be limited.

RE Audio SX PRO 10D4 10" SX Pro Car Subwoofer - Sonic Electronix

But if you're willing to order online, the RE SE Pro 10 is an amazing deal at only $150. It'll easily handle double it's rated 600 watts. RE is always underrated in terms of power. 18mm Xmax, 3" coil, and get this you can run it ported at 1 cubic foot. Ideally it should be 1.25 but RE makes excellent small box capable subs. But use it sealed and you can cram it in as little as .4 cubic feet.

RE Audio SX PRO 10D4 10" SX Pro Car Subwoofer - Sonic Electronix

But if you're going to port definitely step up to the SX Pro 10. 1.25 cubic feet ported and you'll be amazed at the output it's capable of and the sound quality to boot. Tune it low and it'll dig deeper than you can imagine and still hit hard when you want.


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## joeyvaz (Jan 23, 2009)

qwertydude said:


> A dealer will usually stick to just a couple brands, most likely JL, Alpine or Kicker. So your sub choice might be limited.
> 
> RE Audio SX PRO 10D4 10" SX Pro Car Subwoofer - Sonic Electronix
> 
> ...


+1 on this recommendation. I have one in a ported enclosure, running on the 5th channel of my JL HD900/5 so it's getting ~500 watts. Output is amazing. And this thing can handle 1000 RMS. I'm seriously debating throwing more power at it to see what it can really do, but I'm happy with it. Highly recommend this sub as well.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

The nearest HAT dealer is in Ft Lauderdale which is like 3 hours away from me. I am looking to where I could get it in Orlando, Kissimmee, Winter Park, Maitland or Altamonte Springs in Florida.

I just wish they would have a HAT dealer in Orlando, FL bummer. I do not like those things get shipped to my house because certain neighbors have some sticky hands if you know what I mean.



miniSQ said:


> HAT Claurus 10 i just put in is in my opinion a step up from my previous Image Dynamics subs.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

I know the original owner or sub builder left RE Audio and went to start his own subwoofer company before RE Audio went to the Chinese no offence.




qwertydude said:


> A dealer will usually stick to just a couple brands, most likely JL, Alpine or Kicker. So your sub choice might be limited.
> 
> RE Audio SX PRO 10D4 10" SX Pro Car Subwoofer - Sonic Electronix
> 
> ...


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

ebrahim said:


> I know the original owner or sub builder left RE Audio and went to start his own subwoofer company before RE Audio went to the Chinese no offence.


Same can be said of Image Dynamics, Rockford Fosgate, MTX etc and nearly every other audio company went to the Chinese by that standard.

The difference is even though the manufacturing is done in China if the quality control and engineering is up to par then it won't matter. Because it's still a better choice than choosing a sub par "American" brand like Kicker (Made in China too by the way)


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## tbomb (Nov 28, 2007)

Curious why a jbl Gti is out of the question? If that was my budget, its one of the first i would look at. Of course, not near as many dealers as say, JL, so.....

Of what you listed, people seem to love that Morel.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

tbomb said:


> Curious why a jbl Gti is out of the question? If that was my budget, its one of the first i would look at. Of course, not near as many dealers as say, JL, so.....
> 
> Of what you listed, people seem to love that Morel.


GTi isn't very friendly with small sealed boxes like the OP wants. It would work but you'd lose significant sub bass response and the midbass and upper bass the WGTi is known for would dominate. Makes for a funny kinda sound for a subwoofer. Basically it wouldn't sound as much like a subwoofer as it would a PA woofer.


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## rmoltis (Sep 4, 2012)

Infinity kappa 100.9w
I got mine for $125 ea online
The specs for a sealed enclosure is .75cu ft
So it would be great for your space saving.


If you want the "12 version, 120.9w $150ea online.

They have great sq,
Frequency range in a sealed box is 20hz-400hz.
So they get plenty low and reproduce with authority.

I have them in a vented enclosure.
And they get much louder than I ever really need.
It's nice having a large headroom.
I feel that they offer a great value pricewise vs. SPL.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

Yes I agree with you but you left out that the Morel Primo is made in China to and not in Israel.



qwertydude said:


> Same can be said of Image Dynamics, Rockford Fosgate, MTX etc and nearly every other audio company went to the Chinese by that standard.
> 
> The difference is even though the manufacturing is done in China if the quality control and engineering is up to par then it won't matter. Because it's still a better choice than choosing a sub par "American" brand like Kicker (Made in China too by the way)


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## TadCat (Nov 10, 2013)

I kinda had the same question as the OP.. how are the infinity kappa perfect 10s?


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

I think a W10GTI in 1cube would be great. I had a 12 in 1.25 and it sounded great.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

Considering sealed boxes I'd pick the JBL Power Series over the WGTi's. It's definitely better suited with sealed boxes than the WGTi.

New JBL P1024 10" Subwoofer with Dual 4 Ohm Voice Coils 400W RMS 1600W Peak | eBay

I would seriously consider these before they become collectors items. Right now they're still sorta available from leftover stock from some retailers.

I can most definitely say they'll have better SQ and handle more abuse than the 8w3, which is kinda a rinky dink subwoofer if you ask me, especially the newer one with the since they apparently shrunk the voice coil and increased the layers in it. Same goes with the Hertz Energy, overpriced for the limited performance its capable of.

In fact the only sub in the OP's list I would say can compete with the JBL Power Series 10 is the Illusion Audio 10 but still not in terms of output since the JBL uses an oversize cone and has similar excursion, but then again the Illusion is quite a pricy sub. I think throwing JBL subs out of the running is really handicapping the selection especially considering the ho hum other choices besides the Illusion and throwing JBL and Image Dynamics out of the running which in my opinion are probably the two most referenced brands of subwoofers on this site when it comes to sound quality.

If you're going for a less mainstream brand with excellent performance and sound quality, Diamond Audio would be near the top but at $400 is overbudget.

D910D4 Diamond Audio 10" Sub TDX Dual 4 Ohm 1200W Max Subwoofer Bass Speaker New | eBay


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

TadCat said:


> I kinda had the same question as the OP.. how are the infinity kappa perfect 10s?


Kappa perfects are great subwoofers.


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

I love my Primo 10. Box size is 1 qubic foot for sealed and 1.1 for ported.

I ran it sealed for about a month, but I had made the box 1.15 in case I wanted to port later. I ported it later and found it to preform much better than sealed.

Amazing sub, and every person thats heard it, always guess's it a larger sub in a sealed box, it just sounds that good.






ebrahim said:


> Who really makes a good 10 inch subwoofer these days? I am looking for a single 10 inch subwoofer that you can find at a dealer. Something that is in a sealed enclosure not more than a cu ft that will go in the trunk of a sedan. Something that sounds good with all types of music but under the $300 range.
> 
> So far I came across these:
> 1. JL Audio 8w3
> ...


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## Rydsen (Jan 8, 2010)

I'm running a Sundown Audio SD-2 10D4 and it sounds great. It's made here in NC so it's not an import brand. I'm giving it 600W and it handles it just fine. It's in a sealed .55 cu ft box which is what it's designed for, small sealed enclosures. I don't know if there's a dealer near you but can be had for only ~$160 online. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

The closest one is an hour away from me. Plus I do know that TC Sounds makes subwoofers for Sundown Audio.



Rydsen said:


> I'm running a Sundown Audio SD-2 10D4 and it sounds great. It's made here in NC so it's not an import brand. I'm giving it 600W and it handles it just fine. It's in a sealed .55 cu ft box which is what it's designed for, small sealed enclosures. I don't know if there's a dealer near you but can be had for only ~$160 online. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

The problem over here is that Morel dealers do not stock these subwoofers. I went to a couple of their dealers and was "forced" into getting a different brand whether it be Kicker [which I do not like] or Diamond Audio subwoofers or the famous JL Audio.




CrossFired said:


> I love my Primo 10. Box size is 1 cubic foot for sealed and 1.1 for ported.
> 
> I ran it sealed for about a month, but I had made the box 1.15 in case I wanted to port later. I ported it later and found it to perform much better than sealed.
> 
> Amazing sub, and every person thats heard it, always guess's it a larger sub in a sealed box, it just sounds that good.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

ebrahim said:


> Plus I do know that TC Sounds makes subwoofers for Sundown Audio.


No they don't, Sundown subs are made in China. It even says it on the box.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

My brother in law told me he could get me a deal on JL or Hertz because the fact he works at a shop that is a dealer of those brands. Most of the shops over here carry Alpine, Kenwood, Sony, Pioneer, Digital Designs, Massive Audio, MMATS, JBL, Infinity, JL Audio, Kicker, Soundstream, Power Acoustik, Memphis, Rockford Fosgate and PowerBass. There is one shop that carries Illusion Audio, Focal, Arc Audio for subwoofers.

For me I am not a big fan of Arc Audio subwoofers because I know who is involved in their subwoofers. TC Sounds makes subwoofers for Sundown Audio but I am skeptical about Sundown Audio because people in FL use them for SPL systems. Most of the shops over here who do half fast jobs do not carry those high end brands. When I ask the Morel dealers why they do not carry Morel subwoofers their response was they are dropping Morel because they do not get any support from the their office in NY.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

I have a reliable source in one of those two companies who tell me otherwise.



hurrication said:


> No they don't, Sundown subs are made in China. It even says it on the box.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

Anyone heard of Incriminator Audio subwoofers?


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

ebrahim said:


> I have a reliable source in one of those two companies who tell me otherwise.


Your reliable source is smoking crack..

Look at what it says on all the boxes. It's very well known that Jacob uses a chinese buildhouse.


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

hurrication said:


> No they don't, Sundown subs are made in China. It even says it on the box.


Pssst. TC Sounds, made in China too, just assembled in the US. Different build houses for the parts but for the Epic they use the same generic 12 spoke basket as every other generic sub and their better wide spoked baskets aren't all that unique either. TC Sounds just have better soft parts than Sundown, not saying Sundown is bad but TC Sounds is just a little better. But still, made in China.

If you count TC Sounds as still being US made, the RE Pro subs too are "made in the USA".


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

Yes, I know TC sources from China too.. the point I'm trying to make is that TC does not build subs for Sundown.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

ebrahim said:


> For me I am not a big fan of Arc Audio subwoofers because I know who is involved in their subwoofers.


Who is it exactly that is "involved in their subwoofers" and why would it be an issue for you? 

The Arc Black or Arc 10 could be good choices for you. Also, consider Audiomobile's offerings if there is a dealer nearby.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

It comes down to this. If company "A" made subwoofers for company "B" but company "B" sold it for twice the price then why would you not buy a subwoofer from company "B?" In other words we all know that back in the days Image Dynamics made subwoofers for Arc Audio which is no secret even though some will keep it hush hush. So back then I would of went ID instead of Arc because of the builder.

Then after reading your statement that you posted we all know nowadays that Power Acoustik and Soundstream subwoofers come from the same place. As someone told me that I should get the subwoofer that my ears love and not my brain likes. Make sense?




rton20s said:


> Who is it exactly that is "involved in their subwoofers" and why would it be an issue for you?
> 
> The Arc Black or Arc 10 could be good choices for you. Also, consider Audiomobile's offerings if there is a dealer nearby.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

ebrahim said:


> It comes down to this. If company "A" made subwoofers for company "B" but company "B" sold it for twice the price then why would you not buy a subwoofer from company "B?" In other words we all know that back in the days Image Dynamics made subwoofers for Arc Audio which is no secret even though some will keep it hush hush. So back then I would of went ID instead of Arc because of the builder.
> 
> Then after reading your statement that you posted we all know nowadays that Power Acoustik and Soundstream subwoofers come from the same place. As someone told me that I should get the subwoofer that my ears love and not my brain likes. Make sense?


So is your issue actually with ID and not Arc? (You mentioned in the OP that you wouldn't consider an ID subwoofer.) If so, why? Is it because Eric left the company? 

And so, the Arc series of subs is very similar to the discontinued IDQv2, and as I understand it ID designed them both. ID no longer offers that model, so the ID isn't an alternative to the Arc. (Yes, the Arc 8 and the ID 8 are essentially still the same.) Just because another company was contracted for the development of a product does not make it inherently bad. If the value of said product is reasonable (and there is not a lower cost alternative), why not a consideration? 

The Arc Black subs had nothing to do with ID as far as I know. There has been some debate about the Black components and whether or not they are simply re-boxed SB Acoustics drivers or if they were modified from the original SB Acoustics design. The subwoofers though, do not have an equivalent model out there anywhere. Some companies use the same basket (Illusion, Gladen, Ground Zero, etc.), but that is where the similarities end.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

The only issue I had with Arc Audio is when my local dealer bent me over figure of speech. I had the Arc 10s and one of them was defective and therefore swapped them out with the XXD which I did not want at all. Also the dealer did not even apologize for the defective subwoofer at all and therefore did not offer to replace the sub at all. They close down shop and therefore the owner went his way and the installers went the other way at the end of the day. The deal with Arc and I is that I personally believe that they should be more concerned on which shops sell their products than just about making that money. Arc should "police" their dealers more often and therefore if a customer is not satisfied with the dealer then Arc needs to jump and try to make the customer satisfied and then discipline that dealer to. That is the only problem I have with Arc but other than my bad experience with one of their former dealers I am happy with their subwoofers. 

My personal belief if you run a company especially a car audio company you should have support for not your dealers but also for the customer/ consumer to. What I cannot stand at all is that when a company does not take care of customer by not providing manuals on their site for example CDT Audio. I had to worry a friend of mine who is a CDT Audio dealer in another state for a manual on their subwoofers where Ken at CDT Audio told me to email him and two months later no response. It's sad how CDT Audio takes care of their consumers. ID is awesome but my one friend who is an installer told me I should stay away from ID. Also another friend told me since they were bought out by PowerBass they are made by PowerBass.

The only subwoofers that I have heard with my ears is Arc Audio XXD and the Arc but not the Black series. The Black Series was created with the help from SB Acoustics. I do not want to run a ton of power to a subwoofer and therefore would love to run anywhere from 240 watts to 300 watts to a single 10 sealed. I am not looking to break my windows or wake up the neighborhood at all since I am more of a SQ guy and therefore love to listen to my music and not bass all the time.



rton20s said:


> So is your issue actually with ID and not Arc? (You mentioned in the OP that you wouldn't consider an ID subwoofer.) If so, why? Is it because Eric left the company?
> 
> And so, the Arc series of subs is very similar to the discontinued IDQv2, and as I understand it ID designed them both. ID no longer offers that model, so the ID isn't an alternative to the Arc. (Yes, the Arc 8 and the ID 8 are essentially still the same.) Just because another company was contracted for the development of a product does not make it inherently bad. If the value of said product is reasonable (and there is not a lower cost alternative), why not a consideration?
> 
> The Arc Black subs had nothing to do with ID as far as I know. There has been some debate about the Black components and whether or not they are simply re-boxed SB Acoustics drivers or if they were modified from the original SB Acoustics design. The subwoofers though, do not have an equivalent model out there anywhere. Some companies use the same basket (Illusion, Gladen, Ground Zero, etc.), but that is where the similarities end.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Let me be clear in saying that I am not here to defend Arc. Yes, I do run some of their product in my car, but I am certainly not what you would consider a "fanboy." I understand where you are coming from on the issue. My local Arc "dealer" is an absolute joke (and it is considered THE high end shop in town). Arc would be very wise to remove them from their dealer network. 

I have to ask though, did you ever contact Arc directly? I've actually had pretty good experience with responsiveness from Arc. If Arc isn't an option for you, it isn't an option. I was just curious to see what had earned them corpus non grata status. 

On the ID front, I think a lot of people were worried when Eric left. The reality is, the Powerbass partnership existed long before he parted ways with the company. While ID's online retail presence may have increased, there doesn't really seem to be a huge deficiency in their offerings. 

In my eyes there is a difference in knowing when there are better deals to be had on a specific product because identical (or near identical) products are available and not buying from a specific company just because it is associated with another company. 

I'll reiterate, check and see if you have a local Audiomobile dealer near you. They might have good option in your price range.


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

ebrahim said:


> ..but my one friend who is an installer told me..
> 
> Also another friend told me...


I think you should stop listening to things other people say and form your own first hand opinions on a brand or product before casting a negative aura around it. 

From what we've seen you say so far in this thread, it sounds like these people who are telling you things don't know much about what they're saying!


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

I myself have dealt with Arc directly, both via email & by phone. Each time they have provided excellent customer service.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

No, I did not contact Arc directly and therefore their rep is a joke to. Now as far as their product goes they are good but the shops over here are Bassheads and all into SPL which is not my thing. Also there is a local Arc dealer over here which I found out on their dealer locator. The thing is that I put my budget out there because even though I got the money to go with a Black 10 for example I know the KS 300.2 would not work because their tech support suggested I should run the Black 12 on there.

I have found that the Arc 10 is $219 and their XDi 10 is $119 which is a $100 difference between the two. Also I looked up Illusion Audio and dealer told me that their cheapest subwoofer is like $219 also.

The thing is that I am running Morel Hybrid Ovation 6 II passive on the Hertz HCP 4 amp that does 190 x 2 @ 4 ohm bridged first of all. I just do not want to get a subwoofer that would overpower it in the sense I cannot hear the Morels at all. Plus the deal is that I might use my Arc Audio XXD 2080 amp to power the sub but if I need a bigger amp I might go Hertz to keep it uniform but we shall see how that goes. 

I scratch the JL Audio 8W3 since the dealers love to sell them in the ported enclosure that it comes in and therefore do not like ported enclosures at all. I love sealed enclosures but that is just me. There is one JL Audio dealer over here who turned out to be a friend of mine that told me that he would do a sealed enclosure for it for another $50 for it.

My other friend is a Phoenix Gold dealer over here and therefore would sell me their entry level for $100 but I heard a lot of horror stories about them so that is why I am not going with them. Also my other friend has a dad who is a Diamond Audio dealer but I got that weird gut feeling not to go with Diamond Audio subwoofers at all.

At the end of the day it would come down to Arc Audio or Illusion Audio but if I go to visit my brother he has a Morel dealer who told me has the Primo 10 for $199. I got to look at the quality of the subwoofer, price and space of the enclosure.


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## 49konvict (Mar 18, 2013)

I really feel like you are being misguided buy what other people are telling you. Tc sounds and sundown have never had any affiliation. Jacob designs every one of his subs and has a build house in China build the parts and some models of the subs. His higher end subs are assembled here in the us and the lower lines are assembled in china. And I have no clue why you dont like there soft parts. Have you ever even used a sundown sub? I had an e12 on 3x rms and it took it like a champ and when I sold it the coil still looked brand new. I have a zv4 10 now and it is a very heavly built sub. I would recommend the sd-2. It was specifically designed for small sealed boxes. I would also recommend the arc 10. I had the 8 in a .35 cube sealed box and it would play down into the 20s with ease. You shouldnt bash a company because you had one bad experience with one of there dealers. It doesnt mean they have a bad product it just means they cant watch over every single one of there dealers. Why didnt you ever contact arc directly? It seems like its your fault you didnt get what you want. The customer is always right no mater if the dealer thi ks that are not. Why not contact the company directly and get them to ship what you want to the dealer so there is a record of it with the company so if something goes wrong you can bypass the dealer and the company can handle it. If you dont want somethi g shipped to your house than get it shipped to your work or have it shipped to the post office and pick it up straight from there or ups. There are many ways to solve your problems you just have to make the effort.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

You ignored my suggestion of the Clarus 10

Damn good sub...but i would love to hear your take on HAT


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

I spoke to the Arc rep and he told me he would take care of it and I left it like that. He told me there was no use in me calling Fred Lynch at Arc Audio because he told me that Fred would call him. Now that I have learned my lesson the next time I have a problem with a dealer and they give me the run around as well as their rep I am just going to cause hell when I call the company. I did it once with my Morels when the local dealer wanted to pull a fast one on me and I called Peter Moore and he took care of it. Now Peter Moore knows I do not take crap from any of their dealers. The solution he called that dealer the same day and the problem was solved. Now I just deal with Casey at Morel and Jacob Begel at Hertz. 

As far as Arc Audio goes Fred and Brad know me well since I met Fred last year at Spring Break and I got a picture of him and I which was nice. Brad took care of me when I am sending the KS 300.2 in for repairs sometime this week. Also I did speak to Jacob at Sundown Audio and just by speaking to him all I can say out in the open he is a wonderful man. Another person that I can count on is Scott Buwalda and Kliff at HAT to.

Some dealers consider me a you know what because when I go in I go in with the tension of buying a product that I want not want they want to sell me. The one time I went to an Arc dealer and he wanted to sell me Memphis and I walked out and never went back.

It was not bashing the product but I guess I had high expectations when it came to companies to taking care of the customers. I did not want to make anyone upset on this thread at all.




49konvict said:


> I really feel like you are being misguided buy what other people are telling you. Tc sounds and sundown have never had any affiliation. Jacob designs every one of his subs and has a build house in China build the parts and some models of the subs. His higher end subs are assembled here in the us and the lower lines are assembled in china. And I have no clue why you dont like there soft parts. Have you ever even used a sundown sub? I had an e12 on 3x rms and it took it like a champ and when I sold it the coil still looked brand new. I have a zv4 10 now and it is a very heavly built sub. I would recommend the sd-2. It was specifically designed for small sealed boxes. I would also recommend the arc 10. I had the 8 in a .35 cube sealed box and it would play down into the 20s with ease. You shouldnt bash a company because you had one bad experience with one of there dealers. It doesnt mean they have a bad product it just means they cant watch over every single one of there dealers. Why didnt you ever contact arc directly? It seems like its your fault you didnt get what you want. The customer is always right no mater if the dealer thi ks that are not. Why not contact the company directly and get them to ship what you want to the dealer so there is a record of it with the company so if something goes wrong you can bypass the dealer and the company can handle it. If you dont want somethi g shipped to your house than get it shipped to your work or have it shipped to the post office and pick it up straight from there or ups. There are many ways to solve your problems you just have to make the effort.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

With HAT like I mentioned before the closest dealer is a three hour drive from me. Now lets just say it blows out then I have to make a three hour drive to him and back in the same day which is a waste unless I am going down there for a three day weekend. Also I have nothing against the HAT subwoofer at all.

Like I mentioned I will not buy online because I have mentioned that I have neighbors that have sticky fingers plus I work at a grocery store so having it sent to my work is a big NO. The only places I can have it sent to Orlando is by my sister who lives down the road if you ask me or if there is a dealer where my brother lives I could have him pick it up for me and it would not be a bother for him at all as long he told me it is nothing larger than a 10.



miniSQ said:


> You ignored my suggestion of the Clarus 10
> 
> Damn good sub...but i would love to hear your take on HAT


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

ebrahim said:


> With HAT like I mentioned before the closest dealer is a three hour drive from me. Now lets just say it blows out then I have to make a three hour drive to him and back in the same day which is a waste unless I am going down there for a three day weekend. Also I have nothing against the HAT subwoofer at all.
> 
> Like I mentioned I will not buy online because I have mentioned that I have neighbors that have sticky fingers plus I work at a grocery store so having it sent to my work is a big NO. The only places I can have it sent to Orlando is by my sister who lives down the road if you ask me or if there is a dealer where my brother lives I could have him pick it up for me and it would not be a bother for him at all as long he told me it is nothing larger than a 10.


You can have it delivered via Fed-ex or UPS and request that they hold it for you to pick up. I am a life long ID fan...but i truly think this HAT sub sounds better than any ID speaker i have owned. I have never heard Arc Black....although i have heard that it sounds similar to the older IDQ's which are very good drivers.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

The more you post, the more I think you're wasting your time here on DIYMA. You seem to know every dealer, rep and company man from each company mentioned. You have friends and buddies that know the ins and outs and professional relationships of the companies as well. One of them is sure to give you the best advice. 

All us DIYMA members have to share is our own personal experience with the brands and products. If you just want to shoot down every suggestion offered, why bother posting?


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

It's easy to drop big names online to make it seem like people you meet or talk to once are personal friends. I think you're right, if he really does have all these friends who are dealers and know the people in charge of these companies on a first name basis then why is he even on here asking us.



ebrahim said:


> Also my other friend has a dad who is a Diamond Audio dealer but I got that weird gut feeling not to go with Diamond Audio subwoofers at all.


 really?


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## Infinity (Jun 28, 2005)

THEREFORE.......lol


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

ebrahim said:


> The problem over here is that Morel dealers do not stock these subwoofers. I went to a couple of their dealers and was "forced" into getting a different brand whether it be Kicker [which I do not like] or Diamond Audio subwoofers or the famous JL Audio.


That's sales people for you. It is hard to find someone who really wants to advise on the best product, rather, they will sell you what they have, whether it fits your needs or not. 

For me its a balance on having a good product and product support. I want good support when things go wrong. My (non intended HAT bashing) comments about my I6SW problems were somewhat quashed by Hybrid Audio responding in around 15 minutes (via UK distributor). On the flip side, When i pay £180 for a 6.5" sub, at that price, quality is a given and I felt at that price I really shouldn't have to contact customer service, if you catch my drift

















But with the greatest respect, this is the internet, and we are not limited by what the local dealer is selling, which in the UK is, is a blessing, or else i'd be limited to Sony XPlod, Vibe Audio, Edge, FLI (Vibe variants) or your main brands, Kenwood, Pioneer JVC. If I want a Hybrid Audio I6SWv2, I know i only need to contact HAT directly. Morel Primo, I can order from various online vendors. JL Audio 8W1v3 (which I'm presently looking at) is not available in the UK. Who cares, I can by from the U.S. and get it shipped. 

As for Morel, yes I love my Morel speakers, but in my experience getting a response out of them is like getting blood out of a stone. DD were on my bad list, but the local UK DD dealer is good to deal with. Ground Zero replied within 24 hours, Hybrid Audio first class. 





hurrication said:


> Your reliable source is smoking crack..
> 
> Look at what it says on all the boxes. It's very well known that Jacob uses a chinese buildhouse.


There is a lot of Far East products with M.I.A. labels on them. 'Made In America', *'Glued in America*' might be a better label. The issue is that the Far East can only produce to manufacturers specs. 


Not directed at you *hurrication*, but from a UK POV, its seems like people in the U.S. have problems with "Chinese Build-house" products. You have the likes of JL Audio who claim they do everything in their factory, and then people moan about the price, throwing any hypothesis at why the prices are as they are for JL products. Get a good product at a reasonable price, and it's "Oh no, not that Chinese Build-house stuff". There's no pleasing some people. 

Jacob is very open about his gear, unlike some brands/people. 



ebrahim said:


> TC Sounds makes subwoofers for Sundown Audio but I am skeptical about Sundown Audio because people in FL use them for SPL systems.


Not quite sure about the facts of the first point, and why would people using Sundown for SPL in Florida (assuming FL = Florida) not be a good reason to suggest them as a decent 10"? My E-10 (now my friends) was amazing. My SA-12 does SQ as well as some dedicated SQ brands I've owned! 



ebrahim said:


> Who really makes a good 10 inch subwoofer these days? I am looking for a single 10 inch subwoofer that you can find at a dealer. Something that is in a sealed enclosure not more than a cu ft that will go in the trunk of a sedan. Something that sounds good with all types of music but under the $300 range.
> 
> So far I came across these:
> 1. JL Audio 8w3
> ...


I would go with any of your initial suggestions, however i still favour Sundown SA series. I ended up with my SA-12 in a sealed enclosure from Sundowns specs (quote below), and to be honest, I loved it Coming from ported/t-lines to sealed i was slightly dubious, but the results spoke for themselves. Depth was phenomenal and the output was more than enough for me. 



> E10..... inner box dimensions... 12"x12"x7"... add polyfill
> SA12..... inner box dimensions.... 14x14x9... add polyfill


But my other suggestion for Sundown rather than a dedicated SQ'ish brand Morel, Hertz, JL, is that I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. On the odd occasion I do want that bit of SPL (blast some poor Range Rover driver), I feel Sundown has the edge over the aforementioned brands.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

Most of the shops here carry JBL, Rockford Fosgate, Memphis, Kicker, Soundstream, Sony, Pioneer, Alpine and MMATS. They are about two shops by me that are JL and Hertz/Audison dealers and one of them is a Focal dealer to. I just do not want to drive an hour for a subwoofer because if you look at it in my perspective I would adding $40 on top of the price for the subwoofer because it is like $40 to fill up my tank. That is the main reason why I started this thread to avoid paying $40 for petrol.

Where my brother lives there is a HAT dealer plus other brands like Morel, Dynaudio, DLS, German Maestro, Image Dynamics and other high end brands. My brother is three hours away from me so here comes the catch. Morel told me I will NOT get the warranty on the Primo because it was not installed by their authorized dealer who in my experience is one of those guys that does not give a care in the world about his customers.






captainscarlett said:


> That's sales people for you. It is hard to find someone who really wants to advise on the best product, rather, they will sell you what they have, whether it fits your needs or not.
> 
> For me its a balance on having a good product and product support. I want good support when things go wrong. My (non intended HAT bashing) comments about my I6SW problems were somewhat quashed by Hybrid Audio responding in around 15 minutes (via UK distributor). On the flip side, When i pay £180 for a 6.5" sub, at that price, quality is a given and I felt at that price I really shouldn't have to contact customer service, if you catch my drift
> 
> ...


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## Gary S (Dec 11, 2007)

Since you have somebody who can get you a deal on JL Audio subs, that might be something to consider.... I don't know where all their speakers are made, but I do know they do some assembly down here in Miramar where they are located... those guys have been in business for a long time... I remember back in the 80's when they were selling their first line of subs... they amassed huge log books of response curves of subs in different vehicles... I know they have some patents on speakers, and the top of the line W7 was considered by some to be the best sub for many years.... they really know sound quality.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

I like the W0, W1, W3 and the W6 but its a hard decision to make when it comes down when your heart is in Morel. The one thing I like about JL is that they are patient when a customer asks them a tech question where Morel have that attitude of why you calling us and not asking your local Morel dealer those questions. Morel support is good to some extent but what they do not realize and I have no clue on who gets to sign up dealers in Florida but if they came down here they would know how their dealers treat customers like crap. In all honesty I prefer the Morel dealers from other states because at least they would ship me a Primo subwoofer if I wanted to. Also the Morel dealer site is not updated at all since most of the shops on their dealer list dropped Morel. At least JL has their list updated and I do not have to bug Manville Smith about anything related to his dealers or company or anything else related to his company.

I get a vibe from Morel is that they are not truly caring people when it comes to dealing with customers at all. Also I will admit their speakers are awesome which is no doubt about that. I had to fight with them to get a passive crossover for the Hybrid Ovation 6 II which I found out that they have a pair from a dealer that is located in Georgia state. 

Now the interesting twist is that a Dynaudio dealer told me that Morel subwoofers are a knock off of Dynaudio subwoofers. Which was interesting and he told me that I should not go with JL Audio because they were not what they use to be back in the days. He was going on about their current models break down easily and therefore showed me that they are ton of people selling JL subs on craigslist and ebay.



Gary S said:


> Since you have somebody who can get you a deal on JL Audio subs, that might be something to consider.... I don't know where all their speakers are made, but I do know they do some assembly down here in Miramar where they are located... those guys have been in business for a long time... I remember back in the 80's when they were selling their first line of subs... they amassed huge log books of response curves of subs in different vehicles... I know they have some patents on speakers, and the top of the line W7 was considered by some to be the best sub for many years.... they really know sound quality.


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

I for one don't care about dealer support, as I find most(if not all)talk up the brands they sell, and talk down the brands the don't sell.

Dyna & Morel were one in the same(if you go back far enough). They both seem to still be using there shared technology.

If I go to a dealer and they speak in a negative way about brands they don't sell, I just walk away, as I feel that sort of salesmanship is dishonest, and they'll most likely tell you whatever they need to, to make a sale.

I can get most any product at cost, but when I bought my Morel Primo 10, Soniceletronic was selling them at below dealer cost, with free shipping.






ebrahim said:


> I like the W0, W1, W3 and the W6 but its a hard decision to make when it comes down when your heart is in Morel. The one thing I like about JL is that they are patient when a customer asks them a tech question where Morel have that attitude of why you calling us and not asking your local Morel dealer those questions. Morel support is good to some extent but what they do not realize and I have no clue on who gets to sign up dealers in Florida but if they came down here they would know how their dealers treat customers like crap. In all honesty I prefer the Morel dealers from other states because at least they would ship me a Primo subwoofer if I wanted to. Also the Morel dealer site is not updated at all since most of the shops on their dealer list dropped Morel. At least JL has their list updated and I do not have to bug Manville Smith about anything related to his dealers or company or anything else related to his company.
> 
> I get a vibe from Morel is that they are not truly caring people when it comes to dealing with customers at all. Also I will admit their speakers are awesome which is no doubt about that. I had to fight with them to get a passive crossover for the Hybrid Ovation 6 II which I found out that they have a pair from a dealer that is located in Georgia state.
> 
> Now the interesting twist is that a Dynaudio dealer told me that Morel subwoofers are a knock off of Dynaudio subwoofers. Which was interesting and he told me that I should not go with JL Audio because they were not what they use to be back in the days. He was going on about their current models break down easily and therefore showed me that they are ton of people selling JL subs on craigslist and ebay.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Jeebus. This much drama over a ten inch sub for car use is a silly waste of time.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

ebrahim said:


> Most of the shops here carry JBL, Rockford Fosgate, Memphis, Kicker, Soundstream, Sony, Pioneer, Alpine and MMATS. They are about two shops by me that are JL and Hertz/Audison dealers and one of them is a Focal dealer to. I just do not want to drive an hour for a subwoofer because if you look at it in my perspective I would adding $40 on top of the price for the subwoofer because it is like $40 to fill up my tank. That is the main reason why I started this thread to avoid paying $40 for petrol.
> 
> Where my brother lives there is a HAT dealer plus other brands like Morel, Dynaudio, DLS, German Maestro, Image Dynamics and other high end brands. My brother is three hours away from me so here comes the catch. Morel told me I will NOT get the warranty on the Primo because it was not installed by their authorized dealer who in my experience is one of those guys that does not give a care in the world about his customers.


I do get your drift. Don't get me wrong, I've had my issues with car audio dealers, with their a poorly executed, pushy sales techniques. To me it smacks of a desperate act from an ever decreasing sales market! The last person to try to push product on me is now out of business, and I'm left with the local store that sells absolute dreck (Vibe Audio and related brands) or Halfords ...... Yipee

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...1_catalogId_10151_categoryId_165518_langId_-1

We do have Turnballs, but as an ex-employee told me; "At one point Turnballs had over 20 staff, now they're down to 3."

http://www.turnbulls.com/


Dealer/customer service aside, I would encourage you to take a chance, expand your horizons (so-to-speak) and look at some online deals. 




ebrahim said:


> Now the interesting twist is that a Dynaudio dealer told me that Morel subwoofers are a knock off of Dynaudio subwoofers. Which was interesting and he told me that I should not go with JL Audio because they were not what they use to be back in the days. He was going on about their current models break down easily and therefore showed me that they are ton of people selling JL subs on craigslist and ebay.



Since being in the game for only a few years, I've yet to have a problem with any JL sub I've had. Mind you I wasn't trying to do a hairtrick with a single 8W7!!

As for Dynauio and Morel, I thought there was a relationship between Jantzen OEM'ing for Dynaudio at one point. Hence the similarities in looks of the Jantzen drivers to Dynaudio drivers. Although the Jantzen site has been updated since the last time I looked. 

Jantzen 0003 JA-6006 6" Midbass Driver 6 Ohm | 297-705
Jantzen Audio Drivers - Jantzen-audio.com



> http://techtalk.parts-express.com/s...ew-Jantzen-stuff-is-up!&p=1445680#post1445680
> 
> Jantzen drivers are made in the east, but Mr Jantzen lives in Denmark. Dynaudio has nothing to do with Jantzen drivers. The founder of Audiotechnology's father, Ejvind Skaaninge, started both Scan-Speak and Dynaudio many years ago, and now his son Per Skaaninge is behind audiotechnology (flexunits.com).


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## 727south (Jul 21, 2009)

If you want to spend $500 on a sub the Gladen SQX12 will blow your mind.


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## Gary S (Dec 11, 2007)

ebrahim said:


> ...he told me that I should not go with JL Audio because they were not what they use to be back in the days. He was going on about their current models break down easily...


 - I don't believe that for a second. 



ebrahim said:


> and therefore showed me that they are ton of people selling JL subs on craigslist and ebay.


 - As far as "a ton being sold on ebay and craigslist", I would not doubt that... there is lots of buying and selling of popular stuff, this is just common sense.

Dynaudio was famous for their high power tweeters and quality control from batch-to-batch.

However, we tested some Morel subwoofers (we were thinking of picking up the line) in one of the stores I worked for in the 90's and the installers were not impressed. Things may have changed though, that was a long time ago.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Gary S said:


> - I don't believe that for a second.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's tons of JL subs because they're a popular brand!! Searching for a pair of used McIntosh car audio speakers wouldn't yield the same results. 

As for JL breaking down easily ...



> • View topic - At a Glance (Feedback)
> 
> Take the JL Audio W7, for instance: A lot of development time has gone into making it the flagship of a company that is already known for their attention to detail when it comes to driver design. Fittingly, the majority of the consumer feedback reflects this, but where does the negative feedback come from? Does it come from the top professionals in the industry, or does it come from kids who look at the big magnet or the excursion videos on YouTube, and decide that the woofer can be used someplace it was never intended to? To this day, for instance, I receive SPL design requests for the entire W7 line from the 8 to the 13.5... And if I'm being paid to make such things work, it's obvious that others are attempting it as well. How much of this can possibly end on a positive note? Well, again, read the reviews. It's all about how you implement a product; my designs are no exception.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

ebrahim said:


> Now the interesting twist is that a Dynaudio dealer told me that Morel subwoofers are a knock off of Dynaudio subwoofers. Which was interesting and he told me that I should not go with JL Audio because they were not what they use to be back in the days. He was going on about their current models break down easily and therefore showed me that they are ton of people selling JL subs on craigslist and ebay.



this dyne dealer is an idiot.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

Unless you are buying me that sub than by all means I will take one if you are buying me that sub.



727south said:


> If you want to spend $500 on a sub the Gladen SQX12 will blow your mind.


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## 727south (Jul 21, 2009)

ebrahim said:


> Unless you are buying me that sub than by all means I will take one if you are buying me that sub.


I have a mint Hertz HX 300 for half the price if you need.


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## 727south (Jul 21, 2009)

Text me 
727 504 3084
or 
PM [email protected]


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

ebrahim said:


> Now the interesting twist is that a Dynaudio dealer told me that Morel subwoofers are a knock off of Dynaudio subwoofers. Which was interesting and he told me that I should not go with JL Audio because they were not what they use to be back in the days. He was going on about their current models break down easily and therefore showed me that they are ton of people selling JL subs on craigslist and ebay.





miniSQ said:


> this dyne dealer is an idiot.


Just another salesman trying to push product on the unassuming by perpetuating inaccurate prejudices towards other brands. To me it sounds like a perfectly normal thing for a car audio dealer to say. 

*Back on topic*: Love to try a Primo one day, see how compares to a JL W3v3.


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

I would love to know to my friend.



captainscarlett said:


> Just another salesman trying to push product on the unassuming by perpetuating inaccurate prejudices towards other brands. To me it sounds like a perfectly normal thing for a car audio dealer to say.
> 
> *Back on topic*: Love to try a Primo one day, see how compares to a JL W3v3.


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## Allan (Apr 3, 2018)

Can be really hard finding good car subwoofer. I remember that when I was buying a subwoofer for myself I have read almost every article on the internet about quality of them.

In the end I bought JL Audio 10W3v3-4 and I'm really satisfied with quality of sound they made.

When I was looking for reviews of subwoofers and tips of how to install them I found very good website with a lot of information and useful tips so if anybody need this is a link: https://www.bestproductspro.com/10-inch-subwoofers/


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Allan said:


> Can be really hard finding good car subwoofer.


I think the opposite is true, we're actually spoiled for choice. If you go back 20 years, then it would have been a bit different. The W3v3 isn't a bad place to start, its just that JL are now massively overpriced for the performance, SQ or SPL. There again, you could have done a lot worse than JL. Treat JL products well and they'll last you years.


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## Notdumasilook (Sep 25, 2017)

In 30 years or so I've only blown 1 sub (my fault) and had 2 (same make/model/year) have an issue with separating surrounds from the cone.(which they promptly took care of). While Im sure there might be some junk out there you could just pick one from any decent company that fits your specs and be done with it. Your biggest worry is not who made it or where... its more in you doing your part in the install. 
I still have 2 10 inch subs...bought in the 90s.. different makes.. both still play and sound just fine..


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## Jeffdachefz (Sep 14, 2016)

This seems more like an utter nutthugger sh*tfest thread rather than a real X sub is better because of <insert scientific proof and testing here> thread.


Also, anything SQ related is very dependent on how smart you are with enclosure design, loading along with processing power afterwards to get a flat bandwidth and good transients. You can have the most expensive SQ audiophile sub in the world sound like complete garbage when just tossed in a random box or thrown in a nice fiberglassed looking setup but in a poor loading configuration.

Lets see if all your subs can achieve this kind of bandwidth (154.4 to 157 db from 20 to 54hz) and flatness without processing and EQ from the start, just pure enclosure design... Of course This was a moderately loud run but Any idiot knows to turn the sub level down to blend with the music so its not just a pure spl setup, this baby plays music easily. Phase, group delay and time alignment is perfect with this setup so accuracy is on point as well.

Give me a parametric EQ and this will be one of the flattest subwoofer bandwidth you'll ever see.


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## Jeffdachefz (Sep 14, 2016)

I've seen enough flea market setups in a perfect enclosure designed for SQ, outright smash high dollar setups purely due to ignorance on high dollar setup's end. Knowledge > Throwing Money at it.

You'll need proper gear to measure vehicle resonances aka RTA or termlab magnum, a DATS for getting actual subwoofer TS parameters and subwoofer modeling programs aka bass box pro, google sketchup, hornsrep etc.. If you just buy a high dollar sub and stick it in a sealed box, you are at the mercy of your vehicle's cabin gain and resonant frequency and most of the times you end up with a massive peak 4 to 6 db peak at 40-50hz in a trunk of a sedan which is far from anything truly sound quality.


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## Notdumasilook (Sep 25, 2017)

Jeffdachefz said:


> I've seen enough flea market setups in a perfect enclosure designed for SQ, outright smash high dollar setups purely due to ignorance on high dollar setup's end. Knowledge > Throwing Money at it.
> 
> You'll need proper gear to measure vehicle resonances aka RTA or termlab magnum, a DATS for getting actual subwoofer TS parameters and subwoofer modeling programs aka bass box pro, google sketchup, hornsrep etc.. If you just buy a high dollar sub and stick it in a sealed box, you are at the mercy of your vehicle's cabin gain and resonant frequency and most of the times you end up with a massive peak 4 to 6 db peak at 40-50hz in a trunk of a sedan which is far from anything truly sound quality.


Indeed....and there are lots of folks out there that if ya blindfold them, cant tell the audible dif in a 75 or 300 buck sub if the install is done right


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## Thegenuinearticle (Mar 1, 2018)

I tend to lean more towards the European raw driver companies. Their drivers in my opinion have on average more conclusive and transparent spec sheets with parameters and how they measure. Additionally they are the sole build company and dollar for dollar I think the drivers tend to have a more industrial no nonsense build quality to them. I would check out the SEAS L26roy subwoofer 4 ohm version with aluminum cone or the Scanspeak 10" Discovery. You could pick up two of each without breaking the bank compared to many other mainstream car audio company subs and more than likely have on your hands a better performing candidate.


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## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

727south said:


> If you want to spend $500 on a sub the Gladen SQX12 will blow your mind.


For 500 bucks it better blow more than my mind.


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## Garcbomber (May 26, 2017)

Gump_Runner said:


> For 500 bucks it better blow more than my mind.


5 years ago and today!


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## Dexter Morgan (May 10, 2018)

Depends on your budget but any of the Audiofrog woofers preform realy well for their respective price points.


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## Mitchc1113 (May 29, 2018)

Found this thread while looking for 10" sub comparisons and wow, this was entertaining. I've never seen someone name drop soooo much. Sounded like a 10 yr old kid bragging "My dad knows this person or that person, etc..." it was hilarious, like everytime someone actually tried to answer his original question he'd respond with he knows ABC from company XYZ, has them on speed dial & then would spew some diarrhea from his mouth that made no sense, like where he said "if you know company A makes subs for Company B & B charges more why would u not buy from Company B".... lol or my favorite "I just got that gut feeling that brand x isnt good" WTF are u talking about, haha... ppl like this crack me up, like they really think ppl on the internet care who they are or who they know, let me start a post just so I can get ppl to take time out of their day to actually try and help me just so when they give a recommendation I can Google the company, find a name and say I know said guy on a personal level & if I cant get a name then I'll just say I know a rep or have a friend of a friend who's brother's mother in laws baby cousins nephews next door neighbors baby mama is friends with a guy who met somebody's brother from another mother who runs company Xs subwoofer so I know they're no good. 

Ah that was a good laugh, sometimes u need a few ppl like this on a forum that feel the need to validate themselves thru the internet... makes for some very interesting posts & can just get u going sometimes, either by just shaking ur head or actually posting something proving what morons they are... 

I know this is old, but since someone already had brought it back from the dead a few months ago & it caught my attention I just couldnt pass up the opportunity to bump it TTT for others to read. Hopefully a few other ppl will get the same enjoyment out of it as I did.

*** If you opened this post & it brought you down to my reply, take 5 mins to read this thread, I think most will get a kick out of it***


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