# Professional tuning worth it?



## Richard-SSV (Jul 17, 2012)

Has anyone paid a car stereo shop to tune their audio system? If so, was it worth it?

I just installed a new system in my truck, the first install I've done since high school (25 + years), and needless to say things have changed since my last install. Simply adjusting the treble and bass doesn't quite do the trick anymore. There are quite a few more adjustments that can be made these days.

I've got it sounding okay, but it's just not quite there. I'm considering taking it to a shop to see what they can do, but I wonder if my sound quality issues aren't just with my adjustments, but with mp3s in general? It seems like one song can sound great while another sounds like crap. Is this just the price of dealing with the convenience of using mp3s over CDs? Will a professional tune with professional equipment solve my issues with differing sound quality from one song to the next?

If having a professional tune my system is the way to go, about how much should I expect to pay? Here is what my system consist of:

JVC KD-X50BT head unit
Alpine MRX-V60 5 channel amp
KICKER 10C104 300 Watt 10" Subwoofer 
Boston Acoustics SE953 6x9 speakers
Boston Acoustics SE65 6.5" speakers

Also, if you do recommend having my system tuned, might anyone recommend a shop in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

unless you have no idea at all how to tune your system, I would say do it yourself. someone else is not going to know how to set your system up to your liking. you will end up fiddling with it anyway.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Mp3 compression will vary, so quality will vary. You honestly do not have much more than Bass, Treble with that radio, so I don't exactly know what you're trying to "tune." There are tons of questions that should be asked. Did you maintain fader, or do you have the rear preout selected as sub? Radio or Amp crossovers? What's it missing sound wise? This is a very basic and simple install, so there really isn't a TON you can do.


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## Richard-SSV (Jul 17, 2012)

Actually, in addition to bass and treble the head unit has 3 frequency levels to choose from for each of the bass, mids, and treble settings. There are also high pass and low pass frequency settings on both the head unit and the amp.

I've played around with all of them and have it sounding decent, but as I said before, one song will sound perfect while another will sound like its in a tunnel flooded with too much bass. Then yet another song will sound way to high with zero bass. It just seems like difference in SQ is all across the board from song to song.

I've watched some YouTube videos on tuning where the techs are using some sophisticated software programs to tune audio systems. I'm just asking if having this type of June done would be worth the investment.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

It sounds like your issue is with your source material.


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## [email protected] (Jun 20, 2012)

Before you have it tuned, you want to make sure the quality of all your songs is equal. The difference in quality between songs is probably the difference in your source quality.


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## Richard-SSV (Jul 17, 2012)

Okay then, that's what I needed to know. Thanks for the quick replies!

All of my mp3's were ripped at 192kbs, so the audio quality should be there. I'm using an Android phone to stream over bluetooth to my head unit. I've never been terribly pleased with the sound quality from this phone (HTC Inspire 4g) since switching from an iphone. However, I just assumed the poor SQ from it was due to the crappy speaker on the phone or crappy ear buds. I suppose now I know it's the phone itself.

I'll try using a different source and see if there is improvement.

I appreciate your help!


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

If you were using a more sophisticated outboard sound processor and would like to find a shop that would be willing to spend some time really dialing it in with a good RTA, that *might* be worthwhile.

However, you aren't going to get much better results with that equipment just by taking it to a shop. All you really need to do is spend some time learning everything the source unit can do, and ask specific questions in forums like this.


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## Richericks (May 25, 2012)

Have you tried using CDs as a source for tuning? I would start by throwing in the CDs of some of your favorite artists and starting there. Tune from that. Then throw is some really dynamic stuff (bass heavy, lots of highs) and tune from that. Throw your favorites back in. Now how do they sound? Do a little more tuning. Go until you have a nice balance. Then, if you are set on using a compressed source (iPod, etc.) re-compress all your music to some lossless format. 

If all else fails, have a shop do it. But before that, try dialing it in yourself with the best source material possible you have, and then make sure that the material you ultimately use is in the best state it can be.


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## Richard-SSV (Jul 17, 2012)

Richericks said:


> Have you tried using CDs as a source for tuning? I would start by throwing in the CDs of some of your favorite artists and starting there. Tune from that. Then throw is some really dynamic stuff (bass heavy, lots of highs) and tune from that. Throw your favorites back in. Now how do they sound? Do a little more tuning. Go until you have a nice balance. Then, if you are set on using a compressed source (iPod, etc.) re-compress all your music to some lossless format.
> 
> If all else fails, have a shop do it. But before that, try dialing it in yourself with the best source material possible you have, and then make sure that the material you ultimately use is in the best state it can be.


The head unit is a mechless unit, so CD's are not an option. I'll try using my wife's iphone tonight and see if there's a difference in SQ.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

320k bitrate is about the lowest i'd ever go. Everything I have on any of my iDevices is Apple Lossless.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

All of my "tuning" tracks are apple lossless as well, and usually sourced from flac files and the occasional cd. The rest of my collection varies, but you can easily tell the 128k mp3s and some of the 192k from the lossless ones.


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## Richericks (May 25, 2012)

Richard-SSV said:


> The head unit is a mechless unit, so CD's are not an option. I'll try using my wife's iphone tonight and see if there's a difference in SQ.


Sorry. Didn't realize that. I almost looked it up before replying. Oh well. GL!


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

If I had the money for professional tuning, I'd consider instead investing in an RTA setup with a calibrated mic, USB interface for microphone, and possibly additional software. Of course, this is useless if you don't have a good DSP capability. Considering that your stereo has a 3-band equalizer and possibly no time alignment or active crossover, I don't know what a professional tuner can accomplish. Perhaps set your amplifier gains the DMM, etc. A parameteric equalizer would be nice. A 10 band or better equalizer with independent sides would also be acceptable. Try to add a DSP or a better head unit.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

192kbps mp3 should be nearly impossible to distinguish from a CD when played back through a basic untuned car audio setup. Unless something wen wrong with you ripping somewhere then I would not conceder that being the issue. 99.99% of people can not distinguish a properly encoded 256kbps or higher MP3 from the original in 99.99% of the songs out there when compared blindly. Even if using a home system the cost $100K. Again look elsewhere or for a problem with the ripping software.

I huge difference from song to song is a product of a poorly tuned system. Each track is not the same and as a result will not excite the frequency response problems in your system. So some will be tolerable and others will be unbearable. Only when you tune it will you get a balanced baseline where mostly all song will sound ok. Except of course the crap songs that were made without any regard to how good they sound (ie heavy dynamic range compression, unnaturally bass heavy, and blatant clipping of peaks). And even those can be tolerable with a simple twist of the sub woofer level knob.


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

I've been fighting with this issue since installing amps and upgrading the speakers in my truck. Through stock amplification, the difference between good and poorly ripped tracks was negligible, but now I have the same issue that you are having, ie. loud clear track, followed by another that sounds like its coming from down a hallway to another where either end of the frequency range is attenuated. All of the music that I still own on CD's has been re-ripped at 320 kbs for use with my iPhone and iPod (where music is stored) and my Pioneer deck. That did improve some of the tracks, especially the ones where either end of the audio spectrum seemed attenuated. 

What I then found was that most of my problems tracks that had the worst issues were the one that had been downloaded through file-sharing sites years ago. Even though they stated a certain bit rate in the file description in my music library, they don't play at anywhere near the quality as others that I ripped, or purchased through iTunes, that are the same bit rate. 

Keep an eye on which tracks sound poorly to you and then check what bit rate and encoding they use. Poor encoding could be the source of your tuning problem.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> *I huge difference from song to song is a product of a poorly tuned system.* Each track is not the same and as a result will not excite the frequency response problems in your system. So some will be tolerable and others will be unbearable. Only when you tune it will you get a balanced baseline where mostly all song will sound ok. Except of course the crap songs that were made without any regard to how good they sound (ie heavy dynamic range compression, unnaturally bass heavy, and blatant clipping of peaks). And even those can be tolerable with a simple twist of the sub woofer level knob.


It CAN be, but is not necessarily the case. If your source material is not ripped from the same software, in the same bitrate and format and with the same level adjustments, you can have wild variations in overall source level which can make a huge difference in the sound of the tracks. 
Tuning a system can have a drastic effect on the way it sounds for sure. Without some more processing power than what the OP is currently using though, I think it may be wasteful (IMHO) to pay a pro tune it.


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

Your unit allows some manipulation of the bass, mid, & treble frequencies. You can adjust the frequency within a few steps for all three bands, and the Q-Factor for your bass & mid bands. This will give you a little more wiggle room for tuning your system. 

If your finding things getting a little muddy, this may be due to the loudness function being engaged. Make sure that it's off and try to tune without it. 

I know your not using an iPod/iPhone now, but just so you know, your headunit can bypass the iPods DAC & use it's BB DAC when connected through the USB port.


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## fiveoh (Mar 20, 2008)

A little off topic, but I will say with confidence there is not a shop around here that I would give one red cent for tuning. I imagine if I asked any of the locals if they had an rta they would look at me like I had an arm coming out of my forehead.


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## Richard-SSV (Jul 17, 2012)

1996blackmax said:


> If your finding things getting a little muddy, this may be due to the loudness function being engaged. Make sure that it's off and try to tune without it.


Thanks for the tip. Turning off the loudness definitely un-muddied the bass. The sub now hits hard and clean. Now I have to bring back to life the mids and highs without the use of loudness. I played with the various settings and am still having a tough time getting depth of sound out of the mids and highs. 

I currently have the High Pass filter switched to the on position on my amp. Would switching it off help fill in my mids and highs by sending the full range of frequencies to my door speakers? My door speakers are Boston Acoustics which sound a little bright anyway. Thoughts?

Also, thanks again for everyone's comments. You guys have been a huge help.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Richard-SSV said:


> I currently have the High Pass filter switched to the on position on my amp. Would switching it off help fill in my mids and highs by sending the full range of frequencies to my door speakers? My door speakers are Boston Acoustics which sound a little bright anyway. Thoughts?


What frequency is the high pass set to??


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

1996blackmax said:


> I know your not using an iPod/iPhone now, but just so you know, your headunit can bypass the iPods DAC & use it's BB DAC when connected through the USB port.


The X50BT does not have a BurrBrown DAC, just a 24-Bit.


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## Richard-SSV (Jul 17, 2012)

cobb2819 said:


> What frequency is the high pass set to??


Here's a pic of my settings.... I'm very new at this, so be gentle should it appear that I have no clue as to what I'm doing :anxious:


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

try dropping the HP to 60 on channels 1-4


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## Richard-SSV (Jul 17, 2012)

cobb2819 said:


> try dropping the HP to 60 on channels 1-4


To clarify, I should keep the HP switched on, but lower the crossover to 60?


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Richard-SSV said:


> To clarify, I should keep the HP switched on, but lower the crossover to 60?


Yes indeed


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## Richericks (May 25, 2012)

Richard-SSV said:


> To clarify, I should keep the HP switched on, but lower the crossover to 60?


Yes. Switching the HPF switch to Off will bypass the crossover and send a full range signal to the speakers. If you want to adjust the crossover on channel 3/4 you'll want to switch that HPF to On as well.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Muddiness when the loudness is enabled mean that there is excess gain overall on the amps and not enough out of the head unit's master volume setting. This happen because the loudness contour tapers off as you increase the volume so if you "set gains to" a head unit volume that is too low you get more of the bands that the loudness feature enhances. And that can overwhelm the dynamic range potential of the system.

Below is the FR response plot of a similar head unit (P99RS) at various volume settings with the loudness function toggled on and off for each. You can see that there is a significant change in the amount of low end boost (and some high end) as you reduce the volume. Volume level "55"-"40" boost the midbass range by ~6dB or twice the power out of the amp to a speaker, which is the limiting driver in ALL systems. 

Try moving the gains around to a higher head unit setting. It will also help improve your signal to noise ratio. Although, you might have an issue with not having enough wiggle room for low level recordings and also might need to turn the volume knob more times to get it to volume.

(Pic courtesy of Bikinpunk)


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## Richard-SSV (Jul 17, 2012)

Yeah, when I looked at the pic I realized that channels 3-4 were switched off.

Thanks again for all of your help.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

cobb2819 said:


> The X50BT does not have a BurrBrown DAC, just a 24-Bit.


Pretty much all DAC makers have had chips for many years now that are at a level where they are transparent in application. The clincher is how they are implemented and how good the rest of the circuit implementation is. IOW the DAC chip is just one factor in the output section's quality. 

"Burr Brown" is just a marketing ploy that doesn't mean much anymore and never meant much for car audio anyways.


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## CaptEditor (Nov 25, 2011)

Richard-SSV said:


> Here's a pic of my settings.... I'm very new at this, so be gentle should it appear that I have no clue as to what I'm doing :anxious:


Turn your Bass EQ to 0db. All it does is boost at a center frequency of 50hz which will sound terrible in (nearly) any system!


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## Richard-SSV (Jul 17, 2012)

So I played around with my settings last night and found something interesting. Up to this point my source audio has been via my Android phone over Bluetooth. For comparison sake I used an audio cord plugged into the headphone jack instead of Bluetooth. The sound quality was much better with the audio cord, but the sound level was much much lower than with Bluetooth. With the audio cord plugged in I had to turn up the volume almost all the way to max (50) and still could not get it near as loud as with the Bluetooth (20 was plenty loud w/Bluetooth).

I realize I bought a budget head unit, but now I'm wondering if I should scrap the JVC and move up to something of higher quality. Would doing so improve my SQ substantially or would I just be putting lipstick on a pig? If a better head unit would be of benefit, which brand/model would you suggest without breaking the bank?


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Could be that the unit boosts the signal via bluetooth because it is expecting a weak one compared to direct connection. When connecting via the audio cord that is a headphone jack then the volume on your phone should be enabled, so try turning that up. If it is via the charging cable (on my iphone this would be usb dock cable), then the phone's volume is bypassed in most cases. Oh, if it is an option, go with a direct connection and not the headphone jack. WIth a direct connection the phone's DAC is bypassed and the head unit's DAC is used, which is a plus. Basically the phone at that point just becomes a storage device instead of actually "playing" the music.

Unless you want to compete or it sounds really bad as it is I would put my money and effort into other things first. I listen to music almost exclusively through my phone now via the dock cable. No CD's, not even the tuner. Only time my CD has gotten used was in setting up my bitOne and when judges use it 

When it comes to head units you'll get about as many options as replies. Really depends on features you want. For example when I wanted my Clarion CZ702, it was because it was capable of midrange highpass crossover as low as 250hz (I have a 3.5" fullrange). Most couldn't do that and I wanted it. Now, I did eventually get a bitone which made that point mute, but it is features like that you should look at as they apply to your setup. Even the inexpensive ones now have time alignment and sometimes decent crossover selection. My clarion was $200 on crutchfield. My wife's Kenwood KDC-X996 is about $300. has time alignment, the dock connector, bluetooth, etc. but doesn't have a good crossover selection though.


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