# 32 - 6.5's



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

multiple driver sub SQ bass? What is your take on it? I have modeled and it models as well as many other world champion sq sub setups! The difference is the extra spl you can get. 

I have found multiple small drivers to give a very good sq type result.

Give me some response on what you think and why you think it will or will not work in SQ


----------



## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Depending on how they were arranged, maybe phase/time alignment could pose a problem? It just seems many, many subs would be mounted all over the place.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

Larger speakers = SQ

A larger speaker doesn't have to Xmax as far to produce deep bass unlike a smaller speaker.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I'm just guessing but wouldn't the higher Fs make it a little harder to get low even with a ton of cone area? Either way, interested in the results.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Buwalda did something like this recently, swapped from two 18" FI subs in an IB config, to four of the new 6.5" HAT subs, in a 6th order box. Thats almost 25% of the cone area of the 18"s, but he (and several other people) state that it is not only louder, but sounds better than the two 18"s did.

With the 6.5"s it was all based on the box. Agreed on large cone area and low excursion reducing distortion, but 4th and 6th order boxes, if built well, also reduce distortion.

I would love to emulate his setup, but for me, its too much trunk space to lose, so I'll stick with two 15"s IB.


----------



## Inferno333 (Mar 29, 2006)

I worked with a guy that did 32 6.5" subs in a Scion tC. It was pretty ridiculous. Seriously, it was so loud.


----------



## stills (Apr 13, 2008)

i'm too lazy to cut that many holes...


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Buwalda did something like this recently, swapped from two 18" FI subs in an IB config, to four of the new 6.5" HAT subs, in a 6th order box. Thats almost 25% of the cone area of the 18"s, but he (and several other people) state that it is not only louder, but sounds better than the two 18"s did.
> 
> With the 6.5"s it was all based on the box. Agreed on large cone area and low excursion reducing distortion, but 4th and 6th order boxes, if built well, also reduce distortion.
> 
> I would love to emulate his setup, but for me, its too much trunk space to lose, so I'll stick with two 15"s IB.


I had my 12W6s in a 4th order bandpass and excursion was rediculously low. It looked fake like you had the real sub hidden somewhere. You could look in through the port or put your hand on the subs and with little to no visible excursion they were moving the visors and flexing the roof. I loved that setup, it was so musical and efficient and loud but the space it took up led me to the IB setup. It was fairly small for a 4th order. 1.2 sealed and 1.8 ported. The sealed section was just barely big enough to fit the subs. I'm talking half an inch behind the magnets and the frames pretty much touching each other and the edge of the box.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Yep, same here, my 13 year old neon is quieter than my wifes 2010 civic, so my car is the vacation car. It has to have a big trunk. Even with the box using 6.5" subs, Scotts box is too big for me to use. Pics are a few posts down on the link.

http : //www . buwaldahybrids . com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4853&start=90


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Buwaldas 4 6.5's are nice. I used a similar setup to Buwaldas almost 6 years ago and it works great. This setup would be in a bass reflex enclosure that models to an F3 of 22 Hz and an FB of 30 Hz with a subsonic filter at 35 Hz. It has no impedance problem, no cone displacement problem, and no vent velocity problem. Model shows an output of 139.4 @ 34 Hz. Most of the time you can add 10-20 db in a car based on bassbox designs and experience. This is the recomended enclosure alignment recomended by Bass Box. Oh yeah the enclosure size for this box would be 23cube including driver and port displacement


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

Isn't the tuning of the box what matters for SQ bass. Not the speaker necessarily.


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

we are going to find out I ordered the drivers today.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

You ever model the Fi IB 18s?

It wants 63 cubic feet each for an enclosure of .707.

Put a pair of them in a small trunk of 12 cubic feet and you get a Q of 1.1.

Great for a house, but suxor for the car.



TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Buwalda did something like this recently, swapped from two 18" FI subs in an IB config, to four of the new 6.5" HAT subs, in a 6th order box. Thats almost 25% of the cone area of the 18"s, but he (and several other people) state that it is not only louder, but sounds better than the two 18"s did.
> 
> With the 6.5"s it was all based on the box. Agreed on large cone area and low excursion reducing distortion, but 4th and 6th order boxes, if built well, also reduce distortion.
> 
> I would love to emulate his setup, but for me, its too much trunk space to lose, so I'll stick with two 15"s IB.


----------



## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> You ever model the Fi IB 18s?
> 
> It wants 63 cubic feet each for an enclosure of .707.
> 
> ...


Excellent point.....

Cars are too small for most of those 15 and 18 inch subs.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

FG79 said:


> Excellent point.....
> 
> Cars are too small for most of those 15 and 18 inch subs.


then what about 32 6.5s? lol

I will stick with 15s and 18s


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

I just sold 2 IB318's 

I did model them and they look great but they model no where close to the 32 6.5's. Based on cone area 32-6.5's should give a cone area close to 4 - 18's and still have the attack of a 6.5. Please keep in mind that 32 of these drivers is $309 shipped compared to the $540 of the 2 new IB3'18's.




thehatedguy said:


> You ever model the Fi IB 18s?
> 
> It wants 63 cubic feet each for an enclosure of .707.
> 
> ...


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

8675309 said:


> I just sold 2 IB318's
> 
> I did model them and they look great but they model no where close to the 32 6.5's. Based on cone area 32-6.5's should give a cone area close to 4 - 18's and still have the attack of a 6.5. Please keep in mind that 32 of these drivers is $309 shipped compared to the $540 of the 2 new IB3'18's.


what brand?


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

? I will keep that on the low for now. If they work like I think they will then I want to buy all of the left over stock.

LOL


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

I would like to do 64 but that would involve a wall and that is out.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

8675309 said:


> I would like to do 64 but that would involve a wall and that is out.


I am interested in seeing it.

But I have serious doubts on how it will sound. But you never know.


----------



## Svendingo (Jun 17, 2008)

Go with 64 isobaric. You know you want to...  



Sent from my DROID using Tapatalk


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Not sure what you mean by the attack of 6.5s...I think of 6.5s I think of weak.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Plus small speakers don't have the travel larger speakers do.

While 36s 6.5s have the surface area of 4 18s, they have nowhere near the amount of throw of an 18. IRL 2 of any decent 18s would have the same displacement as your 36 6.5s as they would have 2x the throw.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

2 Kickbutt 18s would cost 2x what you paid for the 36 6s.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> Not sure what you mean by the attack of 6.5s...I think of 6.5s I think of weak.


2 words.. sweet sixteen


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> Plus small speakers don't have the travel larger speakers do.
> 
> While 36s 6.5s have the surface area of 4 18s, they have nowhere near the amount of throw of an 18. IRL 2 of any decent 18s would have the same displacement as your 36 6.5s as they would have 2x the throw.


I agree. I switched from 12s to 15s. And all of my friends have 10s. And they are shocked that the 15 is so louder than there 2 MTX 9500 10s, 2 Polk Momo 10s, and close to 2 HCCA 10s. All in a 2.2 cubic foot box that is 1.3 ft3 too small for the 15.

thehatedguy is right. Larger speakers are make a come back for a reason. And the mindset that a large speaker isn't "SQ" is wrong.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> Not sure what you mean by the attack of 6.5s...I think of 6.5s I think of weak.


lol I was thinking the same thing. I just didn't want to start a flame bait or however you spell it.

If this person loves 6.5s so much. Go right ahead.


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Too bad Patrick Bateman would not chime in on this. We are not talking about a 15 in the wrong box we are talking about multiple drivers in a tuned enclosure designed around the drivers. By the way I never stated that 32 - 6.5s would have excursion of 4 - 18's I only stated that cone area would be the same. When it comes to SQ lanes you are not worried about cone excursion. I am worried about a driver that has attack and can produce what I am looking for in SQ sound at low volumes.

Large speakers are fine but everyone does it. I can promise you that with correct enclosure and power this setup is going to be cool. Many people don’t know but in 2010 I only ran the front 6.5 subs in the front for the SQ lanes. The Diamond Audio D9-10s with a mono side from each audison LRX5.1k were almost muted. I can promise you that no one could have told the difference.






jockhater2 said:


> I agree. I switched from 12s to 15s. And all of my friends have 10s. And they are shocked that the 15 is so louder than there 2 MTX 9500 10s, 2 Polk Momo 10s, and close to 2 HCCA 10s. All in a 2.2 cubic foot box that is 1.3 ft3 too small for the 15.
> 
> thehatedguy is right. Larger speakers are make a come back for a reason. And the mindset that a large speaker isn't "SQ" is wrong.


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

edit that remark

This should help

http://www.musicarrangers.com/star-theory/t08.htm



jockhater2 said:


> lol I was thinking the same thing. I just didn't want to start a flame bait or however you spell it.
> 
> If this person loves 6.5s so much. Go right ahead.


----------



## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

What vehicle is this going into, & what's your plan as far as how the woofers will be configured? Afterall, 32 speakers is a lot!


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Everything will be on the same face. 32 subs and ports on the same face.

It will go in the hatch of a 4runner




fish said:


> What vehicle is this going into, & what's your plan as far as how the woofers will be configured? Afterall, 32 speakers is a lot!


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jockhater2 said:


> lol I was thinking the same thing. I just didn't want to start a flame bait or however you spell it.
> 
> If this person loves 6.5s so much. Go right ahead.


sometimes I worry about you....


----------



## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

8675309 said:


> Everything will be on the same face. 32 subs and ports on the same face.
> 
> It will go in the hatch of a 4runner


Oh, ok. I just had weird configurations painted in my mind. Like subs facing every which way. 

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for SQ.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

chad said:


> sometimes I worry about you....


why?


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

because I read your posts.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

chad said:


> because I read your posts.


and? is there a problem? I don't see the need for insults here.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

8675309 said:


> Too bad Patrick Bateman would not chime in on this. We are not talking about a 15 in the wrong box we are talking about multiple drivers in a tuned enclosure designed around the drivers. By the way I never stated that 32 - 6.5s would have excursion of 4 - 18's I only stated that cone area would be the same. When it comes to SQ lanes you are not worried about cone excursion. I am worried about a driver that has attack and can produce what I am looking for in SQ sound at low volumes.
> 
> Large speakers are fine but everyone does it. I can promise you that with correct enclosure and power this setup is going to be cool. Many people don’t know but in 2010 I only ran the front 6.5 subs in the front for the SQ lanes. The Diamond Audio D9-10s with a mono side from each audison LRX5.1k were almost muted. I can promise you that no one could have told the difference.



I am really interested to see this labor of love. Good luck! Can't wait to see pictures.


----------



## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

jockhater2 said:


> then what about 32 6.5s? lol
> 
> I will stick with 15s and 18s


I meant that the ideal enclosure size for huge subs are usually larger than what people put them in. 

From an SQ point of view that is. Granted that's a little off topic here but someone mentioned SQ. 

SPL different story.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

FG79 said:


> I meant that the ideal enclosure size for huge subs are usually larger than what people put them in.
> 
> From an SQ point of view that is. Granted that's a little off topic here but someone mentioned SQ.
> 
> SPL different story.


But all speakers can be SQ.

My 15s are SQ. They sound wonderful.

I just wouldn't want to wire all those up and make a box for all of those. But it is definitely interesting and it will be cool to see what it looks like.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

IMO the attack you are talking about is from the midbass. Some of the best midbass I have heard has come from 12s and 15s. But I come from a high efficiency back ground where you won't find many serious midbasses under 10".

And usually fewer larger speakers costs less than many smaller speakers...and is less complicated to build.

Small speakers tend to sound small to me...I haven't heard 32 6s though, but 12 8s. They had great punch but couldn't do the low lows like 15s or 18s.


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

The attack of a 6.5 sub is small but in numbers it will kill a single or even a pair of car 15's. At 80 hz and down I will be able to get an attack that a pair of 15's do not have. Attack spans for some time not just midbass. Now if I did a pair of prosound 15's it would be a dif story. 


Sub bass


thehatedguy said:


> IMO the attack you are talking about is from the midbass. Some of the best midbass I have heard has come from 12s and 15s. But I come from a high efficiency back ground where you won't find many serious midbasses under 10".
> 
> And usually fewer larger speakers costs less than many smaller speakers...and is less complicated to build.
> 
> Small speakers tend to sound small to me...I haven't heard 32 6s though, but 12 8s. They had great punch but couldn't do the low lows like 15s or 18s.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I got faith in ya man..... I gotta see this happen.


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Got them today



chad said:


> I got faith in ya man..... I gotta see this happen.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I am curious as to what you bought...lol.


----------



## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> I am curious as to what you bought...lol.


X2... let out the secret!


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

You guys **** the bed over a potentially high FREE AIR FS, but the T/S goes out the window in an enclosure.......


Sometimes methinks some people need to restudy the T/S ******** and start looking at what happens. 

Its easy to pull straws, it's harder to think.....

Right Jockhater2?

I'm not insulting you, I just think you mindlessly jump the gun.

I can see what the guy is thinking. It has been done, it works remarkably well.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I know what he is after...I was just wondering out loud if there would be an easier way to get there.


----------



## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> IMO the attack you are talking about is from the midbass. Some of the best midbass I have heard has come from 12s and 15s. But I come from a high efficiency back ground where you won't find many serious midbasses under 10".
> 
> And usually fewer larger speakers costs less than many smaller speakers...and is less complicated to build.
> 
> Small speakers tend to sound small to me...I haven't heard 32 6s though, but 12 8s. They had great punch but couldn't do the low lows like 15s or 18s.


A fair statement, but I'm sure you realize that there's a big difference between a pro audio (or high end home) 12" or 15" and the typical JL/Alpine/Kicker 15" subwoofer when it comes to midbass!! 

It's not just high efficiency, but low excursion, big enclosures and the ability to play high which is essentially the opposite of *most* big modern day *car audio* subs. 

As far as a compromise size, I think 10" or 12" for car subs is best in many situations. For boomers, the 15" and 18" stuff is fine, but for true audiophile scenarios, a few 10" or 12" is best of both worlds. 

An example of awful blending of what could have been a nice setup was that Audi S4 with the dual 15s IB on the rear deck that was making its way at car shows/competitions a few years back. Guy had dual 6.5s in doors, but instead sucked out all the midbass and the car was all sub & treble. On full blast it was tremendous bass, but midbass punch no better than a well installed 5.25" woofer with a pair of 8" subs (worse in fact). That's horrible tuning, but a lot of people really liked that. 

Midbass IMO is by far the most misunderstood concept in car audio tonality. It's quickly learned with good exposure to home audio, but not a lot of car audio guys have that. A good OEM car system is a good teacher of this, but everyone swears they are garbage with no "low lows". 

ps - My favorite home speakers tend to have a 15" woofer.......and my favorite home/pro audio sub is 18". I love the big woofers, just don't think they are *ideal* in cars most of the time. I'm not a hater of size!


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

chad said:


> You guys **** the bed over a potentially high FREE AIR FS, but the T/S goes out the window in an enclosure.......
> 
> 
> Sometimes methinks some people need to restudy the T/S ******** and start looking at what happens.
> ...


Yes. I jumped the gun. I was just giving my opinion. We all have a right to ours. I will keep mine to myself.


----------



## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

I'm in for the updates. Sounds like alot of holes, wire, screws...


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BowDown said:


> I'm in for the updates. Sounds like alot of holes, wire, screws...


could you imagine the boogers he will pull out of his nose if he does it with MDF and a router?


----------



## jking29 (Jan 6, 2008)

Who needs glue? Just dig out a couple globs of paste.:laugh:


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

Trippi's Hummer 6 18" SMD Woofers 40 Beyma - YouTube

I found that on accident. That person had 40 6.5s.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I call that hit, revenge of the windchimes.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

chad said:


> I call that hit, revenge of the windchimes.


Yeah. Whatever he was playing was weird and annoying.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jockhater2 said:


> Yeah. Whatever he was playing was weird and annoying.


Perfect frequency content for "Powerhorns."

youtube that, it will make you want to take a drill to your head.

example 6 PowerHorns From 1/2 mile away - YouTube

Like an ice cream truck on acid.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

chad said:


> Perfect frequency content for "Powerhorns."
> 
> youtube that, it will make you want to take a drill to your head.
> 
> ...


I have never heard of a power horn. But I NEVER WANT ONE. Who in THE WORLD would want there trebble that loud?


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jockhater2 said:


> I have never heard of a power horn. But I NEVER WANT ONE. Who in THE WORLD would want there trebble that loud?


they are mounted outside the vehicle in an attempt to annoy everyone.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

chad said:


> they are mounted outside the vehicle in an attempt to annoy everyone.


OHHH. I was thinking that they had those mounted inside the car. And my brain just went...LOL WUTTTTTTT

Ok. I worked with a kid who did that. It would only be funny to play ice cream truck music. Otherwise. That is just GAY.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Target practice.

But in reality, white trash tend to hook them up to a CB in PA mode and talk to people.... Can't be much worse.


----------



## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

Anyone that does some stupid crap like that should have the horns glued over their ears and give the volume control to everyone he's irritated over the years.

This is the reason there are laws against loud music, show some respect for others.
Music should be for you own enjoyment, in your own environment.

What an *******.

Sorry for the rant.

I hope whatever drivers you bought were inexpensive.
Even 32 of the cheap aura 6-1/2" would run $288.00, not counting the wood and wire.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

cobra93 said:


> Anyone that does some stupid crap like that should have the horns glued over their ears and give the volume control to everyone he's irritated over the years.
> 
> This is the reason there are laws against loud music, show some respect for others.
> Music should be for you own enjoyment, in your own environment.
> ...


I could not agree more, not only that, but it gives a bad name to people like us who do it properly and respectfully. It's the SOLE reason I joined this place in '05. It was a breath of fresh air from the morons where were merely out to rattle every window possible at 2AM.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

cobra93 said:


> Anyone that does some stupid crap like that should have the horns glued over their ears and give the volume control to everyone he's irritated over the years.
> 
> This is the reason there are laws against loud music, show some respect for others.
> Music should be for you own enjoyment, in your own environment.
> ...


THe person spent 306 I believe. They posted earlier how much they spent.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

chad said:


> I could not agree more, not only that, but it gives a bad name to people like us who do it properly and respectfully. It's the SOLE reason I joined this place in '05. It was a breath of fresh air from the morons where were merely out to rattle every window possible at 2AM.


I am a massive bass head, but am young and can't put a lot of money towards it.

I used to have 2 12s in a 4ft3 ported box. I am saving up to install 3 massive audio QC 15s. But I am respectful and I don't play my music loud when I am going by homes late or early in the morning. I think it is rude when people do that late at night too.


And almost every power horn system I found was done by ghetto black guys.


Grill Speakers PA speakers, Done the RIGHT WAY - YouTube

powerhorns new vid - YouTube

4 POWER HORNS FROM 1/2 MILE AWAY N DA ARENA - YouTube

For some reason those were the first on the youtube search list.


----------



## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

I always keep it turned down if I'm in neighborhoods or at stoplights.
If for no other reason, I don't want some worthless piece of crap to come along and "help" themselves to my equipment. I bet this doesn't happen to people like this.

I absolutely love the HWY for this reason alone. No one can hear it, so no worries.

I was young at one time, I remember cranking it up at a stoplight and the older people next to me rolled up their windows and locked their doors. It was funny when I was 18, but now I realize what an ass I was.


Well, hopefully we'll all know what he's got soon enough. 
I'd love to see the build log.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

cobra93 said:


> I always keep it turned down if I'm in neighborhoods or at stoplights.
> If for no other reason, I don't want some worthless piece of crap to come along and "help" themselves to my equipment. I bet this doesn't happen to people like this.
> 
> I absolutely love the HWY for this reason alone. No one can hear it, so no worries.
> ...


It might be a woman. The account name says "jenny".
That is what I love about the highway too. 

I love my car for that reason.  its my winter car. So its a big rough  So I am NEVER worried about someone stealing from it. HAHA


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

anything going on with this?


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

I have started the enclosure but I have been busy so it will prob be after the first of the year before I can test it.


----------



## jockhater2 (May 9, 2011)

sounds cool


----------



## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

8675309 said:


> I have started the enclosure but I have been busy so it will prob be after the first of the year before I can test it.


Sorry... I may of missed it, but what speakers are you going with


----------



## Fricasseekid (Apr 19, 2011)

trojan fan said:


> Sorry... I may of missed it, but what speakers are you going with


He wont tell anyone. But they cost less than $10 each and probably have a low Qts and highish efficiency.


----------

