# has anyone built a world class system using dash mounted mids ?



## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

so my issue is , im running a 3 way active front with good / very good components , and i just cant seem to dial it in . anyone had immense success with this set up ? sail panel tweets / dash mids oem locations / door mounted mid bass , 

tell me what you know ! 

or tell me to just build some kicks . im not doing a pillar set up so.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Define "world class"

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

I have.. but its my own little world.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

The simple answer is yes.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

ErinH said:


> The simple answer is yes.



i know but how . i just read andy's on-off axis thread and it makes a lot of sense . i fighting all the reflections of the glass and everything in my way .

i would love to keep my current locations because there done already. 

but i feel i can do so much better with a larger driver in the kicks .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> Define "world class"
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


like the transit van .


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

audirsfaux said:


> i know but how . i just read andy's on-off axis thread and it makes a lot of sense . i fighting all the reflections of the glass and everything in my way .
> 
> i would love to keep my current locations because there done already.
> 
> but i feel i can do so much better with a larger driver in the kicks .





audirsfaux said:


> like the transit van .


I think you're bouncing around a bit here which is why I was so brief in my previous post. 

As I said, the 'simple' answer is yes, it can sound good. The truth though is it's complex. Your OP mentions dash oem locations which are almost always upfiring at the corners. That is not what Steve uses in his Transit. So, there's a disconnect between your OP and that one. 

Yes, you can get excellent sound from upfiring mids in the OEM location but you still need to do work. And, yea, I'll say that *in general* without modifying those locations to at least somewhat aim the mids so they aren't firing straight up AND without also adding a set of tweeters somewhere (like the sails you mentioned), it's not going to sound as good as a system with mids mounted more on-axis (or at least firing more toward the listener(s)). There are definite compromises with putting a driver under a thick factory perforated plastic grill. 

There's gray area here. Every install is different. But more importantly, every user's expectations will vary based on their needs. 

As for kicks vs dash mids (of any flavor; upfiring or toward the listener), I generally prefer not having speakers in the kicks that are playing anything above about 500hz. You tend to have issues with your leg being in the way. Especially as you increase in frequency above the typical 6/7" driver range of beaming becomes problematic; about 1.5-2khz. But others don't mind the issues that come along with it. This entire hobby is a game of compromises even to those who have built the most insane *cough, Mark Eldridge, cough* builds.


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## Focused4door (Aug 15, 2015)

Andy recommends high in the door card, and it is worth a try if you have a shallow driver. There usually isn't much depth there though. 

Build a small box or baffle and try out the midrange there, if I works then and only then cut the door card.



ErinH said:


> This entire hobby is a game of compromises even to those who have built the most insane *cough, Mark Eldridge, cough* builds.


I wish I could say you were wrong!


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

ErinH said:


> I think you're bouncing around a bit here which is why I was so brief in my previous post.
> 
> As I said, the 'simple' answer is yes, it can sound good. The truth though is it's complex. Your OP mentions dash oem locations which are almost always upfiring at the corners. That is not what Steve uses in his Transit. So, there's a disconnect between your OP and that one.
> 
> ...


thanks for your honest and informative reply , I guess i should start with my expectations, i started out with just wanting to replace the oem drivers and add a sub . because i did not want to go down the rabbit hole agian ! lol
i have about 20 plus years in this hobby , and have built some pretty great systems over the years , i have done well in iasca competitions and on my last build i did not compete but even better i just really enjoyed it ! . on this build i wanted to just improve the oem b and o system and leave it at that but because i really enjoy the car and think its a great starting point for an amazing sounding system i went for it . i have spent only about 6 months with this build so far , but i have hit a brick wall . i think i have made some decent product choices and have a few new goodies on stand by as well, 
but no matter how i tune , i cant get it past that "just ok" point . i believe my issue is with the midrange placement . there in the dash but not pointed up they have a decent lean forward but in a plastic housing that may in itself just be a resonance chamber and i fear that the mounting surface even though i deadened it as best i could is sub par . i have had a lot of help tuning and eq work by nick . but to no avail . i have a set of hat l4 to use in the kicks if i go that route , i feel that they will play high and low enough to blend well with my tempo tweets and the esotars sound great on there own . my tweets are in custom pods in the sails and should keep the stage up , and i feel that the l4 will play high enough to combat the rainbow effect . what are your thoughts on all this .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Focused4door said:


> Andy recommends high in the door card, and it is worth a try if you have a shallow driver. There usually isn't much depth there though.
> 
> Build a small box or baffle and try out the midrange there, if I works then and only then cut the door card.
> 
> ...


i agree with your statement but no room for mids in my doors .


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

just drop the audi off for a week and you will have pillars like the van and will be ready to rock


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## thepersuasions (Jun 27, 2013)

his system is okay. 'pssounds' on you tube (-not allowed to post link) The Audible physics widebanders are delicious.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

thepersuasions said:


> his system is okay. 'pssounds' on you tube (-not allowed to post link) The Audible physics widebanders are delicious.


omg thats a little over the top .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> just drop the audi off for a week and you will have pillars like the van and will be ready to rock


i cant do pillars , not allowed on track days


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Have you tried pulling the grilles in the dash off to see how much of a difference it makes? A buddy of mine here in Arkansas has been in a constant fight it seems with the dash mounted mids in his Q5 so it might be an Audi thing with their dash locations just not being good at all. If you're firing through plastic you could always make a new grille out of plastic and cloth, or wood and cloth, or anything (and cloth) really so you're not firing through perforated/slotted plastic.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Have you tried pulling the grilles in the dash off to see how much of a difference it makes? A buddy of mine here in Arkansas has been in a constant fight it seems with the dash mounted mids in his Q5 so it might be an Audi thing with their dash locations just not being good at all. If you're firing through plastic you could always make a new grille out of plastic and cloth, or wood and cloth, or anything (and cloth) really so you're not firing through perforated/slotted plastic.


yep that was a thought as well , cant believe i havent done any listening or measurements with the grilles off or on . doing it today ! 

i also just got done reading erinh's entire build thread , amazing ! 
still thinking how he gets the gb 25's and the 10's to blend ? but im sure its awesome . that guy is a wizard .


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Yeah that build will be a tough act to follow for Erin. Easily one of the best overall systems I've heard in a while. Was shocked when he gutted it. Looks like things are about to get real in the next build

The difference with and without the grilles will likely be huge.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Yeah that build will be a tough act to follow for Erin. Easily one of the best overall systems I've heard in a while. Was shocked when he gutted it. Looks like things are about to get real in the next build
> 
> The difference with and without the grilles will likely be huge.


What ! he is gutting it ? what the hell is next ? prob due to him not liking the small mids as much as he liked the kef set up . because that is what im suffering from now lol .. SMS small mid sindrome . i did thake the grilles off yesterday and the rta curve was much different . so i re-tuned it and im going to see how it sounds with no grilles this week . any good grille making threads you recommend? i remember seeing one on a white dodge truck but i cant remember what his screen name is .


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

audirsfaux said:


> i cant do pillars , not allowed on track days


Race cars only have radios to the pit crew...


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Gary's car sounds pretty great









Jon's van sounds great too.

Similar setup in both: 

3) tweeter near a-pillar
2) midrange near a-pillar
1) midbass near stock locations


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Gary's car sounds pretty great
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah i know pillars sound good , but did you read my post before chiming in , lol . not looking to do pillars


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I had Coax mids in the dash of my Volvo and had no issues, won MECA Street Class one year and finished 2nd two others.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

chefhow said:


> I had Coax mids in the dash of my Volvo and had no issues, won MECA Street Class one year and finished 2nd two others.


what was your trick for install any damping treatments ? or other things you would advise .


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

audirsfaux said:


> what was your trick for install any damping treatments ? or other things you would advise .


Testing, Testing and more testing. 
There was no treatment done about the driver, just let it reflect off the glass and see what happened. Maybe I got lucky but it came together with some T/A and EQ work.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

i have won several trophies at finals with my bmw and my dodge ram, both with hybrid 3s in the dash aimed up at the glass. i dubbed it "direct-reflected" sound...and erin hates it.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

benny z said:


> i have won several trophies at finals with my bmw and my dodge ram, both with hybrid 3s in the dash aimed up at the glass. i dubbed it "direct-reflected" sound...and erin hates it.


Where were the tweeters?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Truthunter said:


> Where were the tweeters?




...tweeters? I didn’t use tweeters in either vehicle.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

my local shop *did* do a ram w/ 4s and 1s next to them aimed at the glass a while back...

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/3224794-post48.html


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

How are you tuning? Maybe there is something there that you can do to help? So many different ways to set up a tune, I wonder if there is something that can help you. 

Are you using REW? a microphone? or just working by ear in the Helix software?


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

There was some guy named Kirk Profit who won Meca Street class several years on a row and had one of the highest Sq scores at finals Everytime


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

...who?

*shrug*


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Gary's car sounds pretty great
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At some point we should remember that these are vehicles, and the blind spots are already a problem. Adding those extra impedances to vision are not helpful for the primary task of driving.


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## eststang (Nov 28, 2010)

Instead of firing straight up to windshield - could you use "conical reflectors" on top of the mids? I think Patrick experimented with something similar, 3d-printed. Same idea is used in high-end B&O Audi soundsystem. There is now a cheap bluetooth speaker available with kind of similar reflector, Huawei Swan, from where the cone part could maybe used? I do not know how good the cone is mathematically but.... :laugh:


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

eststang said:


> Instead of firing straight up to windshield - could you use "conical reflectors" on top of the mids? I think Patrick experimented with something similar, 3d-printed. Same idea is used in high-end B&O Audi soundsystem. There is now a cheap bluetooth speaker available with kind of similar reflector, Huawei Swan, from where the cone part could maybe used? I do not know how good the cone is mathematically but.... :laugh:



very interesting .. but i think im going for a more static approach


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

benny z said:


> my local shop *did* do a ram w/ 4s and 1s next to them aimed at the glass a while back...
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/3224794-post48.html


yeah thats the build i was trying to find , thanks , and i used the hat l3se drivers with success in my last build but not dash mounted ,


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

naiku said:


> How are you tuning? Maybe there is something there that you can do to help? So many different ways to set up a tune, I wonder if there is something that can help you.
> 
> Are you using REW? a microphone? or just working by ear in the Helix software?


im using rew and a umm6 mic . i did gain some headway this past weekend with removing the stock grilles and playing with the eq curve above the crossover point of the mids . trying to tame some of the rouge reflections . lol


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Mic10is said:


> There was some guy named Kirk Profit who won Meca Street class several years on a row and had one of the highest Sq scores at finals Everytime


Man I loved that car when he had it!


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

i think we should all get together and group tune my car at the north Carolina meet this year !!


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

My old setup wasn't what I would call world class, and not exactly what you are asking about, but I ran a Dyn tweeter in the pillar, Dyn dome mid firing straight up on top of the dash, and a Dyn midbass in the kicks. I did well enough to be points champ and finish second in class (tied for first but lost in the tie breaker) in MECA in 2008. I didn't do as much of the tuning back then nor did we have the option for the amount of data acquisition that we do now. I liked how it sounded, and that was all that mattered to me.


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## TerryGreen5986 (Jun 23, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> just drop the audi off for a week and you will have pillars like the van and will be ready to rock




For how much tho lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

lashlee said:


> My old setup wasn't what I would call world class, and not exactly what you are asking about, but I ran a Dyn tweeter in the pillar, Dyn dome mid firing straight up on top of the dash, and a Dyn midbass in the kicks. I did well enough to be points champ and finish second in class (tied for first but lost in the tie breaker) in MECA in 2008. I didn't do as much of the tuning back then nor did we have the option for the amount of data acquisition that we do now. I liked how it sounded, and that was all that mattered to me.


i was thinking of trying the dyn domes out as well ,


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

audirsfaux said:


> i would love to keep my current locations because there done already.


The thing about building a world class sounding vehicle is that it requires a lot of time and effort and testing to find out what works in your particular vehicle and building with that info in mind.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

TerryGreen5986 said:


> For how much tho lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wish it were that simple my friend. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

captainobvious said:


> The thing about building a world class sounding vehicle is that it requires a lot of time and effort and testing to find out what works in your particular vehicle and building with that info in mind.


indeed thats the struggle im in now .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Holmz said:


> At some point we should remember that these are vehicles, and the blind spots are already a problem. Adding those extra impedances to vision are not helpful for the primary task of driving.


thats true i had to ditch my visor mounted subs , because of that very thing


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I think an unfortunate realization is that when you have to stick by restrictions (no pillars, using stock locations, etc) you then limit the amount you can capitalize on to maximize the potential of sound in a particular vehicle. It's already difficult enough to get a vehicle to sound fantastic by going nuts with the install (trust me, I know!). We also have to consider that stock locations (or other often used modified locations for that matter) can work well in some vehicles and terrible in others. As good as a dash mounted mid may do in one car, it may just not be a great location in your vehicle. So I think you may be at a point where you have to live with "good enough" sound so that you can use your vehicle for the other functions you want it for (tracking, etc) and realize that it has to be a compromise.

Can you make it sound very good still? Sure.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

captainobvious said:


> I think an unfortunate realization is that when you have to stick by restrictions (no pillars, using stock locations, etc) you then limit the amount you can capitalize on to maximize the potential of sound in a particular vehicle. It's already difficult enough to get a vehicle to sound fantastic by going nuts with the install (trust me, I know!). We also have to consider that stock locations (or other often used modified locations for that matter) can work well in some vehicles and terrible in others. As good as a dash mounted mid may do in one car, it may just not be a great location in your vehicle. So I think you may be at a point where you have to live with "good enough" sound so that you can use your vehicle for the other functions you want it for (tracking, etc) and realize that it has to be a compromise.
> 
> Can you make it sound very good still? Sure.


yep i get it . im just trying to see how far i can get with the oem mid locations before i end up doing kicks of pillars . thanks for the input , ! im looking into different drivers as well , the hat l3 se and the illusion carbon 3 
i also have a set of the satori 5 inch and the hat l4 se on standby for kicks .


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

captainobvious said:


> I think an unfortunate realization is that when you have to stick by restrictions (no pillars, using stock locations, etc) you then limit the amount you can capitalize on to maximize the potential of sound in a particular vehicle. It's already difficult enough to get a vehicle to sound fantastic by going nuts with the install (trust me, I know!). We also have to consider that stock locations (or other often used modified locations for that matter) can work well in some vehicles and terrible in others. As good as a dash mounted mid may do in one car, it may just not be a great location in your vehicle. So I think you may be at a point where you have to live with "good enough" sound so that you can use your vehicle for the other functions you want it for (tracking, etc) and realize that it has to be a compromise.
> 
> Can you make it sound very good still? Sure.



^Elloquently said^

Trying to make a car into a home stereo, that emulates being in a bar listening to live music is hard.
Trying to make a car be like a house being like a bar, is harder.
Then trying to also make that also be a "race car" is even more difficult.

It could be an expensive exercise to test it out - and may never be great, or it might.

Since I have only dash available, it is pretty interesting.

Would those B&G ribbons help? They have their own "box" so they are not an infinite baffle, and I thought they went down to 250-Hz or so??
It seems like they could be slid around on the dash to find good locations, but whether those locations also have room underneath is becomes the next question. (And their pattern can be more complex)


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

audirsfaux said:


> yep i get it . im just trying to see how far i can get with the oem mid locations before i end up doing kicks of pillars . thanks for the input , ! im looking into different drivers as well , the hat l3 se and the illusion carbon 3
> i also have a set of the satori 5 inch and the hat l4 se on standby for kicks .


Nick Wingate did quite well with his truck at Aggieland 2016 using the C3CX in the stock locations in the dash, midbasses were in the doors. I've never heard the truck, so I can't comment, but he beat out some very high end installs.

As others have alluded to, tuning is going to play the biggest roll in the install, the speakers location just provides the foundation from which to build upon.


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## claydo (Oct 1, 2012)

Maybe you should just hold tight till after the n.c. meet.......there will be lots of cars for you to demo, and that might sway you one way or another.....


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

claydo said:


> Maybe you should just hold tight till after the n.c. meet.......there will be lots of cars for you to demo, and that might sway you one way or another.....


I was juuuuuust about to post that same thing. So, ditto!


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

ErinH said:


> I was juuuuuust about to post that same thing. So, ditto!


ok maybe ill focus on my ib sub install and leave the front stage til after the meet , i may swap to a set of c3's though.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

eststang said:


> Instead of firing straight up to windshield - could you use "conical reflectors" on top of the mids? I think Patrick experimented with something similar, 3d-printed. Same idea is used in high-end B&O Audi soundsystem. There is now a cheap bluetooth speaker available with kind of similar reflector, Huawei Swan, from where the cone part could maybe used? I do not know how good the cone is mathematically but.... :laugh:


Before I learned how to make the B&O lenses, I tried this. It sounded terrible. Here's why:

In the B&O design, there's a baffle behind the speaker. The baffle restricts the loudspeaker radiation to 180 degrees.

In a design like the one pictured above, the speaker radiates into 360 degrees. This lowers your output by 75% (six dB) and it sends as much sound towards the windshield as toward YOU! A sonic disaster.

Omnipolar speakers can sound nice in a big room, but they are power hungry. The B&O lens isn't omnipolar, it's a reflector.


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

audirsfaux said:


> i was thinking of trying the dyn domes out as well ,


I liked how they sounded, but they don't play as low as the newer style of wideband that's available now. If I remember correctly I had to keep the HP on the domes at around 450-500Hz where my Ram3a's are crossed at 300Hz. Like others have said, it's a constant compromise and depends on what you are willing to do.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

ErinH said:


> I was juuuuuust about to post that same thing. So, ditto!


I was also thinking this... plus, in addition to demoing other cars, you can have a lot of knowledgeable folks listen to your car and make recommendations.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

mumbles said:


> I was also thinking this... plus, in addition to demoing other cars, you can have a lot of knowledgeable folks listen to your car and make recommendations.


that sounds like a plan ,


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

Quote:
Originally Posted by benny z View Post
i have won several trophies at finals with my bmw and my dodge ram, both with hybrid 3s in the dash aimed up at the glass. i dubbed it "direct-reflected" sound...and erin hates it. 


Where were the tweeters?



While I don't consider it world class, I love my "wide band" from 1200+ hz drivers in the dash corners firing straight up into the glass like benny z stated.

Stage is high and panning is also good.


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## Flyhogz (Nov 8, 2012)

Which wide bands are you using, bubba? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

therapture said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by benny z View Post
> i have won several trophies at finals with my bmw and my dodge ram, both with hybrid 3s in the dash aimed up at the glass. i dubbed it "direct-reflected" sound...and erin hates it.
> 
> ...


ok , so both of you are not using tweeters in this application ? i thought i saw a set of l1's in the ram ?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

which ram? the white 4th gen ram w/ the 4s and 1s isn't my truck...it's a local friend/customer of my local shop.

my ram is a grey 3rd gen...there are tweeters in the sails, but they aren't connected to anything (visual only).

https://youtu.be/vLSTj-vt4QI


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

benny z said:


> which ram? the white 4th gen ram w/ the 4s and 1s isn't my truck...it's a local friend/customer of my local shop.
> 
> my ram is a grey 3rd gen...there are tweeters in the sails, but they aren't connected to anything (visual only).
> 
> https://youtu.be/vLSTj-vt4QI


ahh gotcha , i have used the l3 se and have had luck with them in the past 

the challenge in my car now is really the mounting surface for the dash , its all multilayer plastic and a real pain to deal with , what i really need to do is pull the windshield and make a proper baffle , ive stepped down to a 2 way right now , using my tempo 10's and my esotec 650's , its a decent sounding 2 way but door mounted mids are meh ..


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

Flyhogz said:


> Which wide bands are you using, bubba?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


CDT ES02

My "older" ears simply cannot hear anything past 16k or so. That's just hard truth. The CDT I use plays well past that range. 2 way is easier to tune as well.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

So lets kick this up a notch , for discussion sake , in looking for proper drivers for this application , its not really on or off axis by standard means . so what should we look for in regards to specs ?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

audirsfaux said:


> ... its not really on or off axis by standard means
> ...


What does this mean?




audirsfaux said:


> So lets kick this up a notch , for discussion sake , in looking for proper drivers for this application ,
> ...
> . so what should we look for in regards to specs ?


Well if it is world class system then there will probably be some EQ. So you may not need speakers that are flat in response from 20-20k. (Like all those ribbons.)

One thing that is not possible to do with EQ is to reduce speaker distortion.

So for my dash install I am focused on speaker distortion as well as speaker size and box volume.

Are you putting them in with boxes behind them? or allowing them to radiate backwards into the instrument cluster and glovebox?

(Specifically the SS 18wu and 12m + tweeters, however the AF have grills. Basically the used scans were cheaper, and the specs as good as it gets)


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Holmz said:


> What does this mean?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i dont think you have followed this post enough to comment .. there is a size guideline were sticking too , 3 inch . no boxes , the equipment im using is in my sig , and im just asking a question regarding specs on drivers that im looking at . im looking for all the input regarding my last question , but i feel your comment was not related to it


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

audirsfaux said:


> i dont think you have followed this post enough to comment .. there is a size guideline were sticking too , 3 inch . no boxes , the equipment im using is in my sig , and im just asking a question regarding specs on drivers that im looking at . im looking for all the input regarding my last question , but i feel your comment was not related to it


You're right... In addition to poor reading comprehension, I also outlined my thought process (or lack thereof).

Well the 4" scans are bigger than 3"...

I was pretty close to getting audiofrogs. I do not recall if they had distortion specs, but in general few manufacturers supply those, plus some on medleymusings .

The other spec I used was sensitivity as that drives amplifier power along with SPL goals.

These are my ravings this morning.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Holmz said:


> You're right... In addition to poor reading comprehension, I also outlined my thought process (or lack thereof).
> 
> Well the 4" scans are bigger than 3"...
> 
> ...


lol ok , yeah the gb 25 are in the running , as well as the hat pro 3 domes .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

so i pulled the trigger on a set of l3 pro domes , anyone have any experience with these , i think there a good choice (on paper) for a dash install because of there size and specs , and i think a closed back system will help as far as not leaking any back waves through the cluster or glove box , plus there small enough that i may be able to aim them better , well see .


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I've used them, albeit in A pillars, not in the dash. Be careful with your crossover point/slope. They sound nice though.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

captainobvious said:


> I've used them, albeit in A pillars, not in the dash. Be careful with your crossover point/slope. They sound nice though.


what is the safe zone for crossover points ? i was thinking around 350/400 @24 db and a lp cut around 3k


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I had mine as low as 350hz/24db once in competition but that in my opinion is definitely too low from both a long-term safety standpoint as well as acceptable distortion levels. I would recommend closer to 450hz/[email protected], if it is feasible and works well in the system as a whole.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

captainobvious said:


> I had mine as low as 350hz/24db once in competition but that in my opinion is definitely too low from both a long-term safety standpoint as well as acceptable distortion levels. I would recommend closer to 450hz/[email protected], if it is feasible and works well in the system as a whole.


ok i expected to run a little higher than my cone mid im running now , im also trying out a set of illusion 8 inch mids , swapping from my esotar 650, but both of those mid bass play pretty good up to the 4-500 hz realm , so well see how they blend


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

audirsfaux said:


> so i pulled the trigger on a set of l3 pro domes , anyone have any experience with these , i think there a good choice (on paper) for a dash install because of there size and specs , and i think a closed back system will help as far as not leaking any back waves through the cluster or glove box , plus there small enough that i may be able to aim them better , well see .




In your case, honestly, I believe the traditional Hybrid paper cone drivers would perform better. The dome has its place, but it’s best to use it in spaces where there is zero opportunity to use an IB installation - where there is zero airspace behind the driver. It definitely sounds different than the paper cone drivers...obviously everyone has a preference, but the texture of the sound from the paper cones is what gives the Hybrid sound most people are familiar with.

In dash, I’d highly recommend trying the Unity 3 - it’s a very affordable option. Don’t worry about back waves escaping through the gauge cluster/glove box. That’s never been an issue in my experiences using them in a wide variety of vehicles. 

Success here, as already stated in this thread, will come down to the tuning.


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## Vx220 (Nov 30, 2015)

Apologies for piggybacking this thread, anyone have experience of running a similar dome mid as a big tweeter, say 600-800Hz up with no lpf?


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

benny z said:


> In your case, honestly, I believe the traditional Hybrid paper cone drivers would perform better. The dome has its place, but it’s best to use it in spaces where there is zero opportunity to use an IB installation - where there is zero airspace behind the driver. It definitely sounds different than the paper cone drivers...obviously everyone has a preference, but the texture of the sound from the paper cones is what gives the Hybrid sound most people are familiar with.
> 
> In dash, I’d highly recommend trying the Unity 3 - it’s a very affordable option. Don’t worry about back waves escaping through the gauge cluster/glove box. That’s never been an issue in my experiences using them in a wide variety of vehicles.
> 
> Success here, as already stated in this thread, will come down to the tuning.


i understand , and thanks for the info . i have a set of l4's awaiting a kick panel install , if things go bad , i have used the l3 se before and really liked them . wish there was a set for sale for a decent price used just havent found any yet . ill check the unity line out , just never considered them as a contender. and the price i paid for the pro's it would be an easy flip


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

ok so i found the set of mids ive been looking for forever in the condition i wanted and at a price i can live with ,, audison thesis 3.0 , so i know these are a great choice for my application . now to sell the other 4 sets of mids i have and keep tuning !


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

patiently waiting for my thesis to show up , in the interim i am planning there install , pretty sure i will need to pull the windshield to get them installed properly . to make a proper baffle and secure it the way i want to . i did some research on the inner workings of the dash in my car , it actually has a bolt in baffle to accommodate different speaker options from the factory . so with the glass removed i can get in there replace it with a birch baffle and make a grille as well . and i hope it will still look factory except for the grill cloth covered custom grille .


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

The thesis TH3.0 is an excellent 3" mid. I think you will be happy with that choice.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

captainobvious said:


> The thesis TH3.0 is an excellent 3" mid. I think you will be happy with that choice.


me too , im also swapping my front stage amps as well . 

i picked up 2 focal fdp 4.600 's 

1 from steve (zed) that has been modded for a little more power and sq for my mid bass and 1 just stock for the midrange and tweets ,

it will be a step up from my ppi phantoms and they fit where i need them too to 
maintain a pretty stealth trunk .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

captainobvious said:


> The thesis TH3.0 is an excellent 3" mid. I think you will be happy with that choice.


i have the mids installed , and with very little tweaking they sound amazing . 
cant wait to have time to dial them in properly . it definitely was the weak link in my set up .


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## Kountz (Oct 12, 2017)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Gary's car sounds pretty great
> 
> 
> 
> ...


there's no way in hell that car can't sound good. Look it has no center console he's practically got a goddamn monitor mounted in the sail panels I bet this damn vehicle sounds like a goddamn dream! Is this a Honda Odyssey van?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Kountz said:


> there's no way in hell that car can't sound good. Look it has no center console he's practically got a goddamn monitor mounted in the sail panels I bet this damn vehicle sounds like a goddamn dream! Is this a Honda Odyssey van?


It is a living room on wheels. The owner would enjoy nothing more than to explain to you why it is the best sounding "car" stereo in the world. 

https://www.magicbus.biz/


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