# Average Joe Review: Stereo Integrity TM65



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Its that time once again for an Average Joe review! Allright, allright. Calm down everyone. I know this one many have been waiting for including myself. I even caved and did it a little early as I usually like to have a week or so playing with the equipment to discover what I do and do not like. These speakers shocked me several times with their behavior though. Couple that with the tons of emails and PMs..... well here we are. LOL

As usual this is just a basic review. No fancy equipment and tests as there are plenty on here far more qualified than I to give those results. This is just a little something to see if they are worth a try, if they are complete garbage or if they are something in between.


The TM65s have been talked about at great length on this site but if you have been living under a rock here is the skinny.

This is Stereo Integritys try at a shallow mount high output mid-woofer. They are a standard 6.5" mid using a coated paper cone and a large single neodymium magnet. Nothing mind blowing there. Been there, done that. Where they get interesting is the fact they are only 2.3" deep AND have a 9mm Xmax. Added to that is an XBL^2 motor that to me has a sound signature all its own.
I am a big fan of that motor design in SIs subwoofers and have been interested in seeing how it does in a smaller driver. In a word, wonderful. 


As usual they showed up from Nick nicely over-packed. Lots of padding and care. You can tell he really loves his speakers and wants to make sure they show up perfect.


Here are the obligatory pictures. 









They are a very solid feeling speaker. Very heavy with an industrial feel to them. They kinda feel like they should have came from Germany. I don't know what that means but its what I thought. The motor/magnet structure is quite massive when compared to other high end speakers that also use the neodymium magnets.

For comparison here it is sitting next to a Hertz ML1600.





They are quite heavy and if you threw them at someone they probably would not be your friend any longer.


They are rated to handle 120 watts RMS and I will be feeding them with the 150 watt (rated) channels of my trusty JL Audio 450/4. I have tried hours and hours of different crossover settings and phase settings but in the end I went with 18db high pass @ 100hz and a 12 db low pass @ 2500hz. With these settings I was able to eliminate all "beaming" and any low frequency sloppiness. I usually high pass my 6.5 mids at 63-80hz but these SIs are so strong on their bottom end I found no need to stress them.
They fit perfectly in my stock door openings.





So on to my opinion. At first I was a bit disappointed. Not that they sounded bad, just that they did not seem to be better than the plethora of other midrange drivers I have sampled over the last year. They sounded fine, bit more punch below 200hz but a bit hollow for vocals. 
This is why I give speakers time to see what happens. Yeah, lots of people on both sides of the fence as far as breaking in speakers go. For me, I have heard it too many times as a speaker gets warmer and more natural after 20+ hours of usage. These were no different.
I will point out that I use the Pioneers Auto EQ function and in addition to adjusting the EQ it also adjusts crossovers and output. For the first time on any mid that I have added I noticed the auto adjustment left the level at 0. Usually it attenuates 3-4db to match the tweeters.
After 20 hours of usage I used the auto EQ again and this time it attenuated the mids by 2db on the driver side and 3db on the passenger side. That confirmed what I thought I heard, that they were getting louder. At the same time it also diminished the hollow sound in the 600-1200hz area. To me that is a speaker breaking in.

Now that I was happy with the sound of them I went in for a 6 hour listening session. I had only planned on a 2 hour session but I found myself getting lost in the music. So much so that I neglected to notice something simple. While tuning I had shut off the subwoofers. I then proceeded to play some Fleetwood Mac. Great music for drums and no real sub bass tones to deal with. These mids played it so well that I played several songs before I noticed the subwoofer was off.

I could go track by track of the various music that I used but I really don't need to. I played rap, hip-hob, R&B, techno, classical, classic rock, new rock etc etc and couldn't find anything that made them falter. Save for one song. Phil Collins "In The Air Tonight". They seemed to have a little trouble playing the drum line near the end of the song after it goes from the vocals and synthesizer to the heavy drum entry. The 9th smack of the digital drums sounded strained a bit. That was the only track that I could find that made them not sound brilliant.

In my listening session I did push them for all they were worth and for a long long time yet they never sounded fatiguing or like they needed a break. They never let the magic smoke out. They sounded natural and powerful the entire time. Drum smacks were always clear and present. Bass guitar has a real feel to it and the speakers reproduce the tiniest detail with ease. I even heard some background drums that I never knew were there in some songs that I have heard thousands of times.
Female vocals were very impressive and I would venture to say even clearer than the Hertz ML1600s and a far cry better than most other 6.5s I have auditioned. Guitars sound very lifelike and sound placement is excellent. The thing they are best at is bass reproduction. They kick like you wouldn't believe and have a solid presence. 

On the downside I would say they are best suited for a 3 way setup or with a large tweeter that can play down to 2000hz. They sound great to 2000hz and pretty good to 2500 but beyond that they fall flat on their face. Most 6.5s do better into the 2500hz area but these, not so much.

As a whole I say you cant go wrong with these. I cant think of one single $300 midrange that sounds anywhere near as good as these. There are many that are triple the price but can not reproduce music as life like and as loud as these can. They are truly impressive speakers and worth the purchase price and then some.

For as long as Nick wishes to make speakers such as these I will continue to throw money at him.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Nice Review!!!


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

Lol damn it now I have to hear a set of these also.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Like the review mentioned, they will need some break in time.
Are your dual 4 ohm? Did you use that to your advantage? Being able to wire them down to 2 ohm and still get in stereo?


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## ben54b (May 30, 2014)

Thank you. I really enjoy these seat of the pants reviews. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks for the impressions. Now I can't wait to get mine.
Are you going to try them down to 80, 70, or 63 HZ just to see what they can do (without letting the smoke out)?

I presume you just had 'em IB in a large door - is that accurate?
Do they kick like a ZR800? Or one of the thin 8's? Or simply like a really, really great 6.5?
Really appreciate your Average Joe reviews!


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Like the review mentioned, they will need some break in time.
> Are your dual 4 ohm? Did you use that to your advantage? Being able to wire them down to 2 ohm and still get in stereo?


I have the coils running parallel for a 2 ohm load. My amplifier is a JL Audio 450/4 and while they are not rated to give more power at 2ohms my experience has been they put out about 25% more power. I figure I am sending (have the capability anyway) them nearly 190 watts.


tjswarbrick said:


> Thanks for the impressions. Now I can't wait to get mine.
> Are you going to try them down to 80, 70, or 63 HZ just to see what they can do (without letting the smoke out)?
> 
> I presume you just had 'em IB in a large door - is that accurate?
> ...


Yes, they are in a Silverado door. The door is layered with Fat Mat inside and out and is fairly sealed. Their punch when using a 63hz high pass is quite impressive. On par with most good 8" woofers I have used over the years. They have a tremendous amount of output from 60-100hz. Almost too much. That is why I selected a 100hz high pass. The sub is low passed at 80hz with a 30db slope and allows them to blend seemlesly and only on heavy bass music can you tell the subwoofers are behind you. Most music the bass seems to come from the front.
I also have them high passed at 100hz because I like to play music at a fairly loud level for long periods. While I have no doubt they would play to 63 hz without complaining I just wanted to add a bit of a safety margin. As time goes on I may explore tuning the subs to a lower frequency and drop the TMs to 80 or 60hz.


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

LaserSVT said:


> I have the coils running parallel for a 2 ohm load. My amplifier is a JL Audio 450/4 and while they are not rated to give more power at 2ohms my experience has been they put out about 25% more power. I figure I am sending (have the capability anyway) them nearly 190 watts.
> 
> 
> Yes, they are in a Silverado door. The door is layered with Fat Mat inside and out and is fairly sealed. Their punch when using a 63hz high pass is quite impressive. On par with most good 8" woofers I have used over the years. They have a tremendous amount of output from 60-100hz. Almost too much. That is why I selected a 100hz high pass. The sub is low passed at 80hz with a 30db slope and allows them to blend seemlesly and only on heavy bass music can you tell the subwoofers are behind you. Most music the bass seems to come from the front.
> I also have them high passed at 100hz because I like to play music at a fairly loud level for long periods. While I have no doubt they would play to 63 hz without complaining I just wanted to add a bit of a safety margin. As time goes on I may explore tuning the subs to a lower frequency and drop the TMs to 80 or 60hz.


Sounds awesome.
Thank you.


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

Nice review! I get mine later this week. I'll be crossing them lower than you are now, so I'll see how they do with some power to em. Thanks for the write-up!


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I did get a pre production driver a couple months ago that I mounted in my Klipsch Pro Media computer speaker system. Little bugger plays down to 40hz pretty well. Only have 75 watts for it there but even playing bass music it will not bottom out. Isnt the best box for it as its a bit big but it works.


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

LaserSVT said:


> I did get a pre production driver a couple months ago that I mounted in my Klipsch Pro Media computer speaker system. Little bugger plays down to 40hz pretty well. Only have 75 watts for it there but even playing bass music it will not bottom out. Isnt the best box for it as its a bit big but it works.


Well most XBL^2 drivers won't ever protest mechanically, the only way you know they go is by a smoke show. Coil generally gives out before any bottoming out (bottom outing? lol) happens, just by design. 

Obviously Nick would be the person to ask for sure, but that's how most are.


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

Great review man! Very excited to get mine later this week!!!


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

gckless said:


> Well most XBL^2 drivers won't ever protest mechanically, the only way you know they go is by a smoke show. Coil generally gives out before any bottoming out (bottom outing? lol) happens, just by design.
> 
> Obviously Nick would be the person to ask for sure, but that's how most are.


Old-school mentality, yes. How I design speakers, no. Dan Wiggins' (father of XBL^2) liked four layer coils with VERY tight gaps and he did so with almost all of his designs. My designs use eight layer or six layer coils. These little TM65's use a 6 layer coil so it has a lot of thermal capacity. You will definitely bottom out the TM65's before you thermal the coils...unless you intentionally try to blow them up and use a 500 Hz signal as loud as you can possibly go so the driver isn't moving but the coil is heating up.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

^ High five to the first person that does that and video records it, then the tears falling from their eyes in audio pain.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

PS: Thanks for the honest review.  And yes, the TM65's break-in quite a bit.


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

Electrodynamic said:


> Old-school mentality, yes. How I design speakers, no. Dan Wiggins' (father of XBL^2) liked four layer coils with VERY tight gaps and he did so with almost all of his designs. My designs use eight layer or six layer coils. These little TM65's use a 6 layer coil so it has a lot of thermal capacity. You will definitely bottom out the TM65's before you thermal the coils...unless you intentionally try to blow them up and use a 500 Hz signal as loud as you can possibly go so the driver isn't moving but the coil is heating up.


Well that's good news, won't have to tip-toe as much 

Thanks for the clarification!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Thank you for the review! I can attest to the quality feel and appearance.....I so wanted to install the prototype drivers in place of my 6.5's, but the OD was a little larger - would have been fun to hear on the Mos Zero3. Well done Nick!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Making me rethink my LP on the SB17's. 

Good write up. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

you went 2 hours with a system cut off at 100 hz, with an 18 db/oct slope, and didn't notice the lack of a bottom end?

maybe they were energizing the cabin interior from a sympathetic/synergistic vibration coming out of the subwoofer cones...


oh, and thanks for the review!


edit: yes, I can read. Still, several songs is a lot of time to pass to not be aware the subs are off, maybe you had some listening fatigue or hearing issue, or were jamming so loud you were concentrating on other parts of the music.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Well.. My new phrase is "screw going to 8's in the tacoma build". Unless Nick builds an 8" version of these beasties. ... K, so D3004 tweets, ? 2-3" mid to fit in door spot, TM65's mid-bass duty. I just need to fill in the blank for the mid. I know something RS75-size will fit. Unfortunately no 10F or I'd be in bliss.. Although might have to get build a template and simply see. 

That might be craaaaazy if it could be done
D3004's
10f mid
TM65's


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

cajunner said:


> you went 2 hours with a system cut off at 100 hz, with an 18 db/oct slope, and didn't notice the lack of a bottom end?
> 
> maybe they were energizing the cabin interior from a sympathetic/synergistic vibration coming out of the subwoofer cones...
> 
> ...


During that time I listened to Fleetwood Macs Mystified and Never Going Back then I switched to Rush "Closer To The Heart" and then Nils Lofgrens "Keith Don't Go" and then Supertramp "Give A Little Bit". When I cued up Joe Satrianis "Always With You" I realized there was nothing below 80ish hz. 

And yes, I was also concentrating on the mids. That's why I had chosen songs that didn't have much bottom end. I wanted to see how they coped with guitars and higher pitchd male voices. I also love to use Christy McVee to listen to mids as its easy to make her voice come across muffled and dead.

These did not disappoint and she sounded spot on.







I also wanted to touch more on these speakers being slim mount. They make it easy to put some mid bass in areas that were otherwise impossible. It was nice to ditch the spacers and allow the door panel to fit flush once again.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Thanks for the review. I look forward to getting to check these out in person once some of the left coasters get them.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

LaserSVT said:


> During that time I listened to Fleetwood Macs Mystified and Never Going Back then I switched to Rush "Closer To The Heart" and then Nils Lofgrens "Keith Don't Go" and then Supertramp "Give A Little Bit". When I cued up Joe Satrianis "Always With You" I realized there was nothing below 80ish hz.
> 
> And yes, I was also concentrating on the mids. That's why I had chosen songs that didn't have much bottom end. I wanted to see how they coped with guitars and higher pitchd male voices. I also love to use Christy McVee to listen to mids as its easy to make her voice come across muffled and dead.
> 
> ...


well, that's good to hear!

the Phil Collins track is notorious for "odd" sounds in that the drums' syncopation is just a tiniest midge off, and some speakers divide it and others make it just sound the one note.

I am hoping for direct comparisons with or without aural memory limitations, with those other speakers like the Hertz and especially the Illusion Carbons you made an avatar with, and maybe a brief ranking for loudest undistorted output between those drivers you are familiar with...


subjective, of course, since we're all Average Joe up in here..


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## Arete (Oct 6, 2013)

LaserSVT said:


> I have the coils running parallel for a 2 ohm load. My amplifier is a JL Audio 450/4 and while they are not rated to give more power at 2ohms my experience has been they put out about 25% more power. I figure I am sending (have the capability anyway) them nearly 190 watts.
> 
> 
> Yes, they are in a Silverado door. The door is layered with Fat Mat inside and out and is fairly sealed. Their punch when using a 63hz high pass is quite impressive. On par with most good 8" woofers I have used over the years. They have a tremendous amount of output from 60-100hz. Almost too much. That is why I selected a 100hz high pass. The sub is low passed at 80hz with a 30db slope and allows them to blend seemlesly and only on heavy bass music can you tell the subwoofers are behind you. Most music the bass seems to come from the front.
> I also have them high passed at 100hz because I like to play music at a fairly loud level for long periods. While I have no doubt they would play to 63 hz without complaining I just wanted to add a bit of a safety margin. As time goes on I may explore tuning the subs to a lower frequency and drop the TMs to 80 or 60hz.



Thank you for your review. I was considering buy the Hertz XL component set but the stereo integrity driver is causing me to reconsider. How would you compare it to the ML1600 in terms of loudness??


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Arete said:


> Thank you for your review. I was considering buy the Hertz XL component set but the stereo integrity driver is causing me to reconsider. How would you compare it to the ML1600 in terms of loudness??


I would guess they are just a smidge louder in the 400-2000hz range over the Hertz but they have much more output in the 80-200hz area.


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## Arete (Oct 6, 2013)

LaserSVT said:


> I would guess they are just a smidge louder in the 400-2000hz range over the Hertz but they have much more output in the 80-200hz area.


I'm one of those people that will constantly convince myself that paying more will reward me with a better product. Then I read reviews like this one and I'm like "Maybe I should give this a try!" My last setup left me unsatisfied and wanting to upgrade. Not so much in terms of the quality of the sound but in terms of output. The next setup I want to keep for a loooong time. I have the deck. The 80prs and I've decide on the ARC Xdi amps and either an Image Dynamics or JL sub. The toughest decision has been the 6.5 inch driver that is going to be playing the range that you mentioned. Obviously the raw driver route is talked about A LOT on here. The problem with that from what I've read is the knowledge of tuning and doing modifications that is required to get these drivers to sound just right.(The Anarchies would be a perfect example of this) This driver on the other hands seems VERY suitable for a door. So it should be pretty simple. My last setup was the Hertz HSK component set NOT the XL. I actually upgraded to the Mille set for a short time but felt the HSKs had more midbass. There are just so many damn choices! I was even considering holding out for the dynaudio 650. They can take tons of power, have lots of output potential, AND sound fantastic. Please let me know your thoughts. It seems you've listened to quite a few more drivers then I have. One last question though. Based on what you said about the 80-200 range do you think this would work BEST in a 3 way situation? I was considering 2 way for my first active setup but by adding another pair of speakers to the mix I should get a little bit more output... right? 

Thanks


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Three way would be optimal but they are usable in a two way as long as you have a tweeter that can play down to 2500hz.

Its been a few years since I played with any Dynaudio but I always liked them, at least their higher end stuff.


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

Thanks for the great review! Sure got me eating my heart out as I'm so slowly finessing my system together. 
You are making the AMTs more attractive also since it doesn't seem that many will play down to 2500hz.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Infinity, Illusion, Scan Speak and many others make tweeters that will play that low. If you really want super high output I think the Scan Speak Revelators may be the ticket. They will be in an upcoming review.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

SO20thCentury said:


> Thanks for the great review! Sure got me eating my heart out as I'm so slowly finessing my system together.
> You are making the AMTs more attractive also since it doesn't seem that many will play down to 2500hz.


Audison Voce tweeter.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

sirbOOm said:


> Audison Voce tweeter.


Winning. From what I am told they sound a bit better and clearer than the Hertz Mille 280s and I really like the ML280s.


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

They do sound great and very detailed. We have them in my wife's suv. Very detail and can get loud if you want. Plus, they recommend [email protected] on their site. We still have them using passive crossover which is set at [email protected] It can be a little brite at times.


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## spyders03 (Jan 5, 2013)

Babs said:


> Well.. My new phrase is "screw going to 8's in the tacoma build". Unless Nick builds an 8" version of these beasties. ... K, so D3004 tweets, ? 2-3" mid to fit in door spot, TM65's mid-bass duty. I just need to fill in the blank for the mid. I know something RS75-size will fit. Unfortunately no 10F or I'd be in bliss.. Although might have to get build a template and simply see.
> 
> That might be craaaaazy if it could be done
> D3004's
> ...


I came close! TM65's, 10f mids, and Morel MT230 tweets. Oh yeah, and a pair of AE SBP15's IB in the trunk 

Anyways, I would align my thoughts with the OP. Although I have them crossed at 75hz, and I found that by cutting the 40hz band by about 6db really helped them keep the bottom end under control. I have them at 8ohm right now (bridged amp) but really thinking about trying them at 2 ohm


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Yes been in tears with wrenching my neck starring at my laptop, trying to learn REW and learn to tune, watching your vids as you tune this setup. It became evident when you dropped the LP on these that they are definitely pulling mid-bass duty in your setup blending in with the 10f's. I wonder though if they'd gain or maybe lose a little control going to 2ohms from 8. That'd be an interesting experiment you can't do very often for sure on a speaker near this size and response. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## spyders03 (Jan 5, 2013)

You do lose quite a bit of damping factor when going to 2 ohms, which is WAY more important on a speaker than an amplifier, but it would be interesting none the less to hear the effects. Like you said, it's not something you can do very often on a midrange/midbass


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I will give it a try next week when I get into the doors again. Easy enough to wire them up in series.


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## hdrugs (Sep 7, 2009)

i'm an amatuer in hope of advise. i have a prs80 and a lrx 5 channel

i have ran the hat clarus 6" compnents

i'm hoping to pick up the tm6.5 midbasses for a permanent system 

i have the scanspeak illuminator ring radiators 1" and 3/4" 

could these tweeters with the tm6.5?


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## casey (Dec 4, 2006)

you could probably get away with the 1" with a 2500hz/24db crossover


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

LaserSVT said:


> So on to my opinion. At first I was a bit disappointed. Not that they sounded bad, just that they did not seem to be better than the plethora of other midrange drivers I have sampled over the last year. They sounded fine, bit more punch below 200hz but a bit hollow for vocals.
> This is why I give speakers time to see what happens. Yeah, lots of people on both sides of the fence as far as breaking in speakers go. For me, I have heard it too many times as a speaker gets warmer and more natural after 20+ hours of usage. These were no different.


I put mine in today, and this was my initial impression as well. There was a hollow sound and I found myself reaching for EQ. Quick RTA showed 500Hz was down, but I'm not totally sure at this point it's solely the drivers themselves. Might be the way they're playing with the truck. I also noticed that they don't seem as efficient as the Anarchy's I took out, seems like they both handle more and require more power to get loud. Seemed like the snap of a snare drum was more in your face though, I did like that.

Regardless, I only have about 45 minutes on them, so I will definitely give them some time. Both of the symptoms I've described will almost definitely subside after break in. I also only have them on like 30W or so, temp amp right now until my Ground Zero amps get here. I'm excited to see what they hold in store. I will be revisiting the Anarchy's in another month or two, and do a true side-by-side with both broken in well.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Well as the continual adjusting is happening the speakers have me tickled pink. I removed the ESP-2 as I no longer need it.
I have changed slopes around a bit and stopped using the Pioneers TA since I can attenuate each speaker independently anyway as well as adjust the EQ (still want a P99 though). Moving the mids to an 80hz HP with an 18db slope has given me the exact sound I wanted. Subwoofers take over at 80hz as well with a 30db slope. I let the mids play to 2.5k with a 12db slope and the AMTs are high passed at 3.15k with a 12 db slope.
This has given me a nice balanced sound at nearly all levels. Its nice not constantly changing the bass boost when going from low to high volumes. 

I am very pleased with this combination. I believe its a keeper. Just need to sound deaden the rest of the floor, do the roof, swap in a P99 and then find someone that can fibreglass me some a-pillars to put the AMTs on axis. I find myself leaning forward to put myself on axis just because there is so much more detail hiding there. LOL


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

Great review. I'm confused about you no longer needing/using Time Alignment & What's a esp-2 ?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I have never been 100% excited about the 80PRS alignment. What it wants for distance is WAY off and when I set it close to where it should be it sounds off. When I ignore the numbers and do it by ear I can get the soundstage near perfect. The problem is the mids get a bit hollow, the highs loose some sparkle and the bass response below 20hz is dismal.

If I attenuate the driver mid by 2 db and the passenger tweeter by 1db and the subs by 6db I get the sound I like and the stage is nice and centered.


ESP-2 is a spacial restorator. It does make the sound stage wider and taller but also loweres the noise floor a tad. I like dead silence (as if there were a noise gate) between tracks.


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

gckless said:


> I put mine in today, and this was my initial impression as well. There was a hollow sound and I found myself reaching for EQ. Quick RTA showed 500Hz was down, but I'm not totally sure at this point it's solely the drivers themselves. Might be the way they're playing with the truck. I also noticed that they don't seem as efficient as the Anarchy's I took out, seems like they both handle more and require more power to get loud. Seemed like the snap of a snare drum was more in your face though, I did like that.
> 
> Regardless, I only have about 45 minutes on them, so I will definitely give them some time. Both of the symptoms I've described will almost definitely subside after break in. I also only have them on like 30W or so, temp amp right now until my Ground Zero amps get here. I'm excited to see what they hold in store. I will be revisiting the Anarchy's in another month or two, and do a true side-by-side with both broken in well.


Back when I tried Anarchy's I found them to be terribly ineffcient. To say that these aren't as good in the area is a disappointment. But as you said that should improve with more break in time. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts if do an a/b comparison between the two.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I have not tried the Anarchy myself so I could not compare. At the same power level they are about 1db (according to my processor settings anyway) less efficient than the Hertz Mille ML1600 but can get louder while maintaining their composure. They are a bit more efficient than the Illusions and quite a bit more efficient compared to Boston Pro or Z series. They are not quite as efficient as an Infinity Kappa mid (pre 2014 generations) but sound 10x better. 

Hope that helps.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

gregerst22 said:


> Back when I tried Anarchy's I found them to be terribly ineffcient. To say that these aren't as good in the area is a disappointment. But as you said that should improve with more break in time. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts if do an a/b comparison between the two.


Refering to the sensitivity the 8 Ohm Anarchy's are spec'd at 84.7 dB, the ML 1600's are spec'd at 93 dB, and the TM65 with its coils in series to present an 8 Ohm load are spec'd at 89 dB. Sensitivity won't change after break-in because the moving mass won't change and neither will the strength of the motor, but other sound characteristics will change after the TM65's are fully broken-in.


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

gregerst22 said:


> Back when I tried Anarchy's I found them to be terribly ineffcient. To say that these aren't as good in the area is a disappointment. But as you said that should improve with more break in time. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts if do an a/b comparison between the two.


Yeah, I should clarify here. It was kinda weird, and I attribute what I'm about to write to the fact that this was with under 30 minutes on them; on low volumes, they didn't seem as efficient, seemed a bit quieter. But once fed a little more power, they seemed to brighten up and be on a higher level.

I'm not hearing this anymore. They're loosening up and sounding great


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Electrodynamic said:


> Refering to the sensitivity the 8 Ohm Anarchy's are spec'd at 84.7 dB, the ML 1600's are spec'd at 93 dB, and the TM65 with its coils in series to present an 8 Ohm load are spec'd at 89 dB. Sensitivity won't change after break-in because the moving mass won't change and neither will the strength of the motor, but other sound characteristics will change after the TM65's are fully broken-in.


Yes thanks for that. I didn't mean the sensitivity would improve just that the overall sound of the driver hopefully would. 
I just went through the same thing with new Scans. After a few hours of play time they woke up got louder and sound better.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

LaserSVT;2375921[U said:


> ]I have never been 100% excited about the 80PRS alignment. What it wants for distance is WAY off and when I set it close to where it should be it sounds off. When I ignore the numbers and do it by ear I can get the soundstage near perfect. The problem is the mids get a bit hollow, the highs loose some sparkle and the bass response below 20hz is dismal.
> [/U]
> If I attenuate the driver mid by 2 db and the passenger tweeter by 1db and the subs by 6db I get the sound I like and the stage is nice and centered.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on the PRS 80 TA-on vs TA-off. I have found that even if you turn all the speaker to O" on the TA adjustments, then switch TA off & on, you will find the "TA Off" is MUCH more dynamic. I have never been able to tune it (TA on) enough to make up for that short coming.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

One thing I left out by accident is the use of screws on these!





I learned the hard way not to use a non washered flat seat screw on these speakers. You can see where it twisted the rubber a bit. Before installing the other side I switched to a tapered head screw and then went back and corrected the passenger door. The tapered screws seem to work well and keep from biting into the rubber surrounds.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

So have these replaced your favorite driver at the top of yours list?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I'd assess each driver individually if there's an output concern. Doesn't take much for a couple drivers to out of phase ever slightly to kill freq response and output, and just being close with timing doesn't mean they're playing together in phase. I only thought I was in phase until seeing their measurements when played together in pairs. Mids are very prone to it. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

etroze said:


> So have these replaced your favorite driver at the top of yours list?


Yes.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

Damn, yep one of my vehicles will be getting a set one day lol.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

LaserSVT said:


> Yes.


Let me expand on that. These are my favorite sub $500 mid. I do like some other mids better but they are deeper and cost 4x as much.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Can update a little more on these. I had initially planned on testing them with several tweeters but the PHDs and Focal Bes had to be sent back to their owners before the TM65s arrived. I have been able to pair them with the Dayton AMTs, Infinity Kappas, Boston Pros, Focal TNKs and a Hertz ML280 as well as the Scan Speak R2904.

With the smaller tweeters and the AMTs these really need to be in a three way system as those tweeters will not play low enough to blend well with the SI which seems to be optimum to have crossed over below 2000hz. Now when paired with the Hertz ML280 and the Scan Speak R2904 it is a totaly different animal in a two way system. The TM65 really cleans up its midrange and plays much nicer at lower volumes as well as when you really want to jam out. That was my one gripe, it just didnt sound great from 1900ish to the 2500hz crossover I had it at with the other tweeters.

i have also found if you like to play it loud that an 80hz 12db crossover works best. 63hz is just too low. Sounds great at lower volumes but the woofer gets a bit sloppy when pushed.


Hope it helps. I think this is the best 6.5" I have heard that was under $300. The fact that t can go places most high performance 6.5" speakers cant go is pure gravy.


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