# 1976 Buick Regal- Tribute car



## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

This spot is to show my future build on my 1976 Buick Regal.

This car was owned by my Grandmother but over the years tragedy struck our family. 
First- My Aunt Cindy was killed in a hit and run Motorcycle accident by a drunk driver.
Second- My uncle was a Marine killed in the 1983 Beirut barracks bombings.

Last- My Granny died way too early from Leukemia.

So this build is a tribute to my family members that past. I have two of these cars. The one owned by my Granny has been passed through 5 households since her death. I have had control of the car since about 2005 and have dreamed of getting it going and back to its glory since then. 


After a few years outside my home, the city made me move it since it was not registered. It sat outside where rust set in from the years of being outside. After a couple years at by bro-in laws, I brought it home to my garage again. It sat in there until 2011 when I bought another home. 

I got it running and started driving it to my house when the tranny went out. I had to drive backwards about 1.5 miles and right into my garage backwards. After a few years, I had to move it outside to allow me to use my garage. 


So fast forward to my birthday on 4-20-17. I finally found one that was for sale and went to indiana to see it. It ran, the body was good and the price was right. The interior is the wrong color and it has a column shifter instead of the floor shifter. 
Sooooooooooo......

On My passed aunt's birthday, 4-22-17 I purchased the car and my pops helped me tow it home.

I plan to switch the interior and shifter from Granny's car and drive the new one while I restore the body of the old car and make it badass. Eventually I will have two badass 76 Regals!

So here goes the car and stay tuned!!


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm going to follow this build because I used to have a '77 Cutlass in high school which is basically the same car as yours except the front grill is different. I loved that car and wish I never sold it.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

So the plan is to utilize my old slash amps which consist of three-300/2's and one- 1000/1.

I would like to gather another set of GB25's and possibly the GB10 tweets but I am open on the tweets.

I really would love to run another set of zr800's in the kicks and then use my spare 13w7 for sub duty until I can get another W15gti mkII or two.

For the head unit, I might as well run my old alpine IVAD310 with the processor until can afford another Helix processor (or mosconi) and then maybe by then I will do up a custom head unit pod under the dash for a double din or something. The guy that owned the new car before me cut the dash to install a clarion tape deck in place of the old dual knob. I will probably tig weld metal back into place and restore it back to original.


The car will be receiving full Airride suspension and eventually I will get around to doing another new paintjob. The car was recently repainted but the bodywork is not so good at all and I would like to make it perfect.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

bigbubba said:


> I'm going to follow this build because I used to have a '77 Cutlass in high school which is basically the same car as yours except the front grill is different. I loved that car and wish I never sold it.


Yeah, I will probably have to use Cutty parts in order to restore Granny's Buick. I thought that parts would be readily available being a regal but apparently there is no love for the 76-77 year models. You can find damn near any part you want for a 78 plus Regal and a grand national


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Life changed a bit. Got promoted and have less time. Im gonna get back to this but time is not as plentiful. Go figure. Over 25k raise but much less time.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Isn’t that always the case, more money means less time. In for the build as it’s a beautiful looking car.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Took a big step on this car and a couple smaller steps.

1. BIG!-I found a motor and trans from a 2010 express van 3500hd with 109k miles and removed it from the back of the truck last night. I will be swapping the L96 (6 liter LS) motor and 6l90e tranny (Big MOFO) into the Buick with a cam swap, headers and some other parts to freshen it up. The car has about 140 hp at the engine from the factory with the 350 buick in it now. The new motor and tranny will turn it into a rocket! I should have about 440hp at the wheel! Yeah, Im going to have roughly 3 1/2 times the power and torque. Then going from a 3 speed to a 6 speed is going to do even more to make it a beast!

2. Small- I bought a set of GB25's mids and had a 2nd set of JL ZR800-Cw midbass waiting in boxes in the basement. Dont forget I also have a pair if JBL W15GTIMKII subs waiting too. The Amps as of now will be my three JL slash 300/2's and my slash 1000/1 (likely to change). If needed I will go with 1 ported W15GTIMKII but that is unlikely.

So the remaining equipment left to get is --
Processor-Helix
Headunit-Undecided
Tweeters- AF GB10 or GB15
Amps- probably change to JL hd amps or small footprint amps

As this is coming together, I am envisioning running the 15's in sealed configuration with a custom back seat that will allow the sub bass to enter the cabin but sealed off from the trunk. I want nothing to do with the W*ANG WANG WANG* rattle these old cars are known to have. I have KNU Kollossus deadener and a bunch of MLV sitting in the basement. I wish I could do IB but again the rattle is unacceptable. The enclosure will probably bolt solid to the back seat and rear deck with the factory 6X9's removed. I will weld up a prefect fitting metal frame to attach the enclosure with a nice rubber seal to eliminate any bass from entering the trunk area.

*The ZR800's *are going i a sealed enclosure that will span the entire door which is almost 4 feet long. it will be approx 46" X 9" X 3.5" which is a little larger than the recommended sealed enclosure. If I do not like it, I will just drill a hole into the rear of the enclosure to vent it into the door. There is a large opening in the factory door metal that will allow that to happen. I will probably build an MDF enclosure to fit the space and then use it as a mold for a fiberglass enclosure. There is a possibility that I may form aluminum enclosures using my metal shaping and welding talents too. That would be cool. 1/16" deadened aluminum to eliminate any ringing.

*The GB25's* will either go in the kicks or in custom pillars with the tweets. Same thing here, I love shaping aluminum so I may go with that instead of fiberglass.

*Head unit* will likely be a double din Kenwood again due to the fact that they are a great value and good performance and features. Not sure on this one though. I may just go with a simple single din like I had back in the old days. My phone can serve as the entertainment.

*Amps* will be slash amps that I previously ran. They are just sitting in a climate controlled basement not being used. I figure I can wrap them in vinyl like my HD amps in my Jeep and run them until they quit on me. No sense in not using the 1900 watts sitting on my wall. Once they die, I will replace them with HD amps or something small format from JL. I am a fan of their lines of amps so no reason to change it up.

*Alternator-* Mechman 370 probably.I am going to upgrade the alternator on the L96 to something bigger to handle the stereo or I may incorporate a second alternator and battery solely for the stereo setup. I will be moving the batteries to the trunk to reduce the weight on the front end of the car since the new Iron block 6 liter and trans will weigh about 180 pounds more than the old stuff. I will look for anything else that can be moved too in order to mitigate the impact of that added 180 pounds.

*Deadening*- KNU Kolossus everywhere, MLV whole floor and CCF in the needed areas. By going sealed for the door drivers, I will not need quite as much deadening on the outer door skins. I am definitely not afraid to do 100% coverage with all my deadening though!

*Wiring-* 0/1 KNU Kolossus, Custom made RCA's

*Wheels- *hopefully I can afford to do these in a 20 front and rear but will run factory gear until I have the bread.









*Brakes- *Disk conversion in the rear and big brakes once I have the bigger wheels.

*Paint-* almost decided but product will be SPI epoxy primer, Rage gold filler and maybe SPI products base/clear.

*Interior-* Almost decided- Doors will be factory 76 Buick red, but changing up the seats from white vinyl to likely black leather. Carpets will also change to ether black or red. I will be doing all the upholstery with my industrial machine. I am definitely going fancy with this though!

*Suspension-* Air! Definitely doing airride. I have most of the components but will need the actual bags. 2600lb springs in front and likely 2500lb springs in the rear. drop spindles and nice adjustable shocks. I will do all the work myself since I have all the tools necessary. I will probablu not be using the fancy load leveling stuff. Im going regular old SMC valves and reducing fittings to adjust the speed. My custom Chopper has Accuair valves and they are nice but very pricey. Maybe one day I will change it out but for now, the old school brass valves will do. I already have multiple air tanks. I will clean and seal the insides with Caswell gas tank sealer to eliminate any rust issues.

That is all for now. Stay tuned!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Hmm, thinking out loud here. I have over 13 inch x 46 inch x like 4 inches easy that I was going to put the zr800s in the front door. But...maybe just maybe?.?? Holy crap that would work!

Maybe I should put a SI BM mkv in each door sealed! Seriously, that could and would work. Im not a fan of seeing speakers so I could build a door panel that looks like nothing is there then WHAMMO! You get hit with superb up front bass! The ring in the photo is an 8 inch ring from the zr800. As you can see, theres plenty of height. The BM mkv specs show a Small sealed enclosure size of 0.65 to 0.75 ft^ so I have more than enough space. It would make for a no rear sub install! This changes EVERYTHING! I could pair them with GB40s and GB10s. I wonder .......









In Engine news for the day, I have remove all accessories and removed the tranny for the 6.0 LS. Time for a cam to get more ponies!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Great progress this weekend. Motor is in although it will be coming out once more.
Hood I am sure will fit based on the amount of clearance at this point.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Looks like that motor fit in there pretty good. Oil pan cleared the crossmember and all. Plenty of room for headers. Mount the trans in too?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

bigbubba said:


> Looks like that motor fit in there pretty good. Oil pan cleared the crossmember and all. Plenty of room for headers. Mount the trans in too?


Trans is not in because it is a 6l90E and I am almost certain that the tunnel will need to be cut. The motor fit but I want to shift it over toward the drivers side a little more. I was hoping to not have to modify the drive shaft but that looks unlikely now.

Holley's swap oil pan and the Hooker LS swap exhaust manifolds are a God send. The fit soo well.

I am getting excited to hopefully have this sucker running soon. I would love to be running this month. Work and family commitments are definitely slowing m down though.


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## Coolhand20th (Aug 13, 2020)

Nothing against the LS6, but that Buick/Olds 350 could have really been built up. You can build those engines to 450-500hp and still be sunday drive-able. But that is just me, I like to keep things with the original stuff as much as possible when doing this kind of stuff.

Other then that good luck and those LS6s are also a nice engine when done right!


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## OME573X (Apr 18, 2020)

Ls6 can make the same without loosing drivability and knock a good 150lbs off


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## Coolhand20th (Aug 13, 2020)

You don't lose drivability with doing that much HP not if you do it right. I've done it in the past on a couple engines. I know of several people that have done it. Not going to turn this into an argument on the OP's post about his Regal, wouldn't be fair or right. We all have our own opinions on this subject, it is one I've disagreed with even with friends. Can be a hot topic in the car world.

Once again to each their own, the LS6 engine is nice if people do it right. Some people just pull a LS6 out of w/e they can and half rig it, then they get pissed when it don't work like it should.

OP is not that guy. Good luck with it!


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## OME573X (Apr 18, 2020)

Yeah I shouldn't have posted that. The buick and olds make for great platforms as well, and now a days even a small block Chevy is unique since the LS has found it's way into every crack lol. 
Apologies


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coolhand20th said:


> Nothing against the LS6, but that Buick/Olds 350 could have really been built up. You can build those engines to 450-500hp and still be sunday drive-able. But that is just me, I like to keep things with the original stuff as much as possible when doing this kind of stuff.
> 
> Other then that good luck and those LS6s are also a nice engine when done right!


First, it is an L96 which is an iron block 6 liter that is very popular for boosted applications (hint) due to how durable it is. It is used in heavy duty truck and van applications and the gen 3 version is known as an Ly6. It has the same high flow heads as an LS3 and large bore throttle body. The L96 has E85 injectors from the factory which is popular for race applications. The 6l90E tranny is not as popular due to its large size and weight but is a stronger and more stout wersion of the 6l80e offered in a Cadillac CTSv and i believe the pontiac G8. My previous car was a G8GT and I liked the smoothness of that tranny. The 6l90e has the same electronics but with beefed up mechanicals that a heavy duty hauler needs.

I fought that battle but in the end, it costs way more to get those numbers from a 140 factory hp buick 350 than it does for a run of the mill 6.0 LS iron block. Now factor in the efficiency of fuel injection vs the carbs.

I was not an "LS swap the world" fan until recently. I consider myself a "restomod for life" guy now.

There is no denying that hopping in a fuel injected vehicle and driving where ever and whenever with decent MPG's will beat pumping the gas and doing a specific sequence to keep it running for like 3 min until it warms up. Then praying that it gets you from A to B without dying on you all while drinking a weeks paycheck in the process.

Btw, go fast goodies for a buick 350 are far more expensive and less available than a chevy small block 350. This swap was a no brainer to be honest and I have no regrets at all.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

OME573X said:


> Ls6 can make the same without loosing drivability and knock a good 150lbs off


Unfortunately the Buick 350 (450lb) weighs 100 pounds less than a chevy 350 (which is good) but that means the iron 6.0 (550 lbs) weighs more than the factory motor. This is not an issue because I am moving the battery (35lb) to the trunk and severely lightening the 88lb bumper if not getting rid of it all together.  

The car will no doubt be faster and fun to drive though since a factory 6.0 is already more than double the power of that old Small block Buick. After it is running, I am swapping the cam too... yeah so there's that too..


Driveability I do not suspect will be an issue. Others that have done this exact same motor/trans combo have been overjoyed!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coolhand20th said:


> You don't lose drivability with doing that much HP not if you do it right. I've done it in the past on a couple engines. I know of several people that have done it. Not going to turn this into an argument on the OP's post about his Regal, wouldn't be fair or right. We all have our own opinions on this subject, it is one I've disagreed with even with friends. Can be a hot topic in the car world.
> 
> Once again to each their own, the LS6 engine is nice if people do it right. Some people just pull a LS6 out of w/e they can and half rig it, then they get pissed when it don't work like it should.
> 
> OP is not that guy. Good luck with it!


Correct. I am not that guy. This aint no stinking run of the mill junkyard swap. Im actually building a daily driver out of a classic vehicle that I love. 

As far as opinions, my response is the only one that matters is the one listed on the debit card. My car, my cash so anyone that does not have a dime invested can kick rocks. I will gladly sink a built Buick 455 into my other Regal if you want to send me one. Lol!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

OME573X said:


> Yeah I shouldn't have posted that. The buick and olds make for great platforms as well, and now a days even a small block Chevy is unique since the LS has found it's way into every crack lol.
> Apologies


Buick 350 vs LS
Atari vs Ps5
Beeper vs smartphone
Musket vs Barret 50 cal
.......just sayin!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coolhand20th said:


> Nothing against the LS6, but that Buick/Olds 350 could have really been built up. You can build those engines to 450-500hp and still be sunday drive-able. But that is just me, I like to keep things with the original stuff as much as possible when doing this kind of stuff.
> 
> Other then that good luck and those LS6s are also a nice engine when done right!



Adding the proof. starting with a whopping 140hp for the 1976/77 model https://www.hotrod.com/articles/gs350-buick-455s-little-brother-deserves-due/
From the only company manufacturing heads for the Buick 350 for $2800 assembled


> TA’s 350 Stage 1 Street Eliminator (SE) series heads are the largest advancement in 350 Buick performance to date. The Buick 350 is a stout and capable engine featuring a strong skirted block compared to the 455 with it’s thin wall casting and poorly supported crankshaft. Until now, the biggest thing hampering the 350’s performance potential has been the factory iron heads.
> Extensive (and expensive) porting is required on iron heads to make more than 400HP, and it’s difficult to find a head porter that can get good numbers out of the head. Out of the box, our 350 aluminum heads flow comparable to an average ported iron head, with room for improvement with additional porting. On most engines, out of the box performance will be 30+ HP.



Now remember, I could have purchased the low mile LS motor for about $1800 and used the factory tranny. From the factory the L96 is 385 HP with 380ftlb of torque. I will be cam swapping for an additional 71 hp for about $500 including the VVT delete (well proven). New Cam Adds 71 HP To Stock 6.0L LS With No Low-End Loss!

So as you can see, the swap makes sense and the Buick 350 cannot compete. Maybe a Buick 455 swap would be a more fair comparison but still more costly than the LS and you are still left with the poor oiling system design and a major gas guzzler with the same carb issues.

No brainer


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## Coolhand20th (Aug 13, 2020)

ndm said:


> Correct. I am not that guy. This aint no stinking run of the mill junkyard swap. Im actually building a daily driver out of a classic vehicle that I love.
> 
> As far as opinions, my response is the only one that matters is the one listed on the debit card. My car, my cash so anyone that does not have a dime invested can kick rocks. I will gladly sink a built Buick 455 into my other Regal if you want to send me one. Lol!



Wow was only making a comment and wasn't rude at all. Either way I am done with this thread.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coolhand20th said:


> Wow was only making a comment and wasn't rude at all. Either way I am done with this thread.


I was not directing the comment at you bud. I am pleased that I got comments. Seriously. I did not mean to come off like a butthole. after reading it I can see how you thought that but dead serious. 

I apologize if you thought I was directing it maliciousness at you. I was thinking about all the debates that I had with my military buddies and we get kind of rowdy with each other. 

For anyone reading this thread, I want to be absolutely clear. I am grateful for your comments in my thread. Please take my words to be in good fun. I hate those threads that go off the rails with negativity and I understand how my comment could be understood that way. I have been here on this forum for years and am definitely not that kind of poster. 

Coolhand20th, Please let me know if were good. 

For the record, I was dealing with a severe @sshole at work when I wrote my words so maybe that's where the negative vibes came from.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

It’s all good, I’m just happy that you are willing to share what you are doing with us.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> It’s all good, I’m just happy that you are willing to share what you are doing with us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That is exactly what I am to do good Sir. I am sharing to maybe give the next guy the motivation to do it. I have never done it before but knew that I was capable of doing it. I have been planning this for a while and thanks to a drunk driver and a little settlement, the project got greenlighted.

Thanks for not leaving for good. I will be making this one worth the while of all that view my thread. I am a picture whore too so that is good. I also follow up my threads and wont leave folks hanging.

This will be a full on build this car. I plan to showcase all my skills that I have developed over the years. Wood, metal and composites. Welding, metal shaping, upholstery, air suspension, etc.. you will see it all in this thread!

Im just glad to have a place to put it other than facebook. I never have and never want to ever use that service (my own reasons).

Stay tuned!

For tonight not much progress as the wife, daughter and I early voted and my 2nd grader tagged along.

I did start test fitting the locations of the fuel system though. I am using AN6 fittings and stainless braided ethanol safe lines to keep things safe.

I also changed the layout of the intake. Im going to have to cut it up a little to make it to my liking.

Lastly, I removed the hooker manifolds to prepare to re adjust the motor location and to get the manifolds ready for ceramic coating (which will also be done buy yours truly at home).


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## OME573X (Apr 18, 2020)

Whoooaaaa... I simply backed up the ls6's potential lol didnt hate on the buick or mean to create a wat lol...

I personally could go on and on about the things I don't like about the LS internally... such as the bay to bay breathing or lack there of and crankcase pressure caused by the y-block... only thing I truly like about them is the cfm a cheap set of cylinder heads flow. My LS3 heads were $400 new and flow 330cfm. Well that and the larger rasied camshaft base circle, even the primary Oiling system has faults I'm not a fan of...
But on a budget the heads can help for sure... I am ALL FOR a original Buick (especially the 455!!) And I dont like the guys that slap turbos on LS stuff and think there king of the track, building a engine is a form of artwork... especially naturally aspirated, we squeeze 610hp out of a 354inch sbc based engine with a 390cfm carburetor its rule regulated but still... lots can be done to any engine when the time is taken and the knowledge is there... I respect anybody that takes time with there builds, Import, domestic... if you put your heart into it regardless of what it is and who you are it gets my respect.

Very cool to see a older build. I'm doing my first SQ (well first real Audio build in general) in my daily driven 84 coupe deville.

Excited to see more progress, mechanically and audio!!!! Sorry for any confusion, press on!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Dang! Motor has to come out again. I was fitting the accessories and while I had a major win that the factory van AC that came with the motor will in fact fit.....but..... the power steering pulley is hitting the steering.

After some thought, I decided to space the motor mounts up a quarter inch and that should solve the problem.

Photos to follow


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## OME573X (Apr 18, 2020)

Btw if your ever looking for swap advice or anything feel free to send me a pm... always love to help on another build...

And a header I always suggest is Speed Engineering.. they sell very well built long tubes in Stainless Steel for under$300 to the door! Been helping on swaps for ages now. Not that I'm backing the LS, just offering up some help


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## OME573X (Apr 18, 2020)

And check out ICTBillet for mounts and accessory drive options... for Billet parts they're cheap and have options for truck/vette/car parts as well as old style p/s and such and a mix.

Could run a smaller P/S pulley if you wanted.


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## OME573X (Apr 18, 2020)

Looking good, and I see now it's not a LS6 as the other gentleman mentioned. GenIV iron 6.0, even better! 4 bolt TB intake flows better than any other LS intake (basically the same as a TBSS) and the 317 is a great flowing head... unless you got lucky and have the 821/823(LS3/L92 square port) then you have a even more killer set up.

I'm in for the progress, I'll stop taking up space in the tread, good luck!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

OME573X said:


> Looking good, and I see now it's not a LS6 as the other gentleman mentioned. GenIV iron 6.0, even better! 4 bolt TB intake flows better than any other LS intake (basically the same as a TBSS) and the 317 is a great flowing head... unless you got lucky and have the 821/823(LS3/L92 square port) then you have a even more killer set up.
> 
> I'm in for the progress, I'll stop taking up space in the tread, good luck!


Does this photo answer your question? Factory L96 heads. Eventually I may swap to the LS3 intake though.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

OME573X said:


> And check out ICTBillet for mounts and accessory drive options... for Billet parts they're cheap and have options for truck/vette/car parts as well as old style p/s and such and a mix.
> 
> Could run a smaller P/S pulley if you wanted.


I want to use all factory accessories at this time to keep the cost down. That was a major goal of this install.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

OME573X said:


> Btw if your ever looking for swap advice or anything feel free to send me a pm... always love to help on another build...
> 
> And a header I always suggest is Speed Engineering.. they sell very well built long tubes in Stainless Steel for under$300 to the door! Been helping on swaps for ages now. Not that I'm backing the LS, just offering up some help


I already chose the hooker LS swap manifolds. I will be coating them soon. They fit great!
Thank you for the offer of help.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

OME573X said:


> Whoooaaaa... I simply backed up the ls6's potential lol didnt hate on the buick or mean to create a wat lol...
> 
> I personally could go on and on about the things I don't like about the LS internally... such as the bay to bay breathing or lack there of and crankcase pressure caused by the y-block... only thing I truly like about them is the cfm a cheap set of cylinder heads flow. My LS3 heads were $400 new and flow 330cfm. Well that and the larger rasied camshaft base circle, even the primary Oiling system has faults I'm not a fan of...
> But on a budget the heads can help for sure... I am ALL FOR a original Buick (especially the 455!!) And I dont like the guys that slap turbos on LS stuff and think there king of the track, building a engine is a form of artwork... especially naturally aspirated, we squeeze 610hp out of a 354inch sbc based engine with a 390cfm carburetor its rule regulated but still... lots can be done to any engine when the time is taken and the knowledge is there... I respect anybody that takes time with there builds, Import, domestic... if you put your heart into it regardless of what it is and who you are it gets my respect.
> ...


As I said before, I used to be a "Factory guy". I argued all day that the Buick needed to stay all Buick. After some time and thought, I saw the light. Again there is no denying the facts in this case. 
Cheaper, more reliable, way more aftermarket support, Way more MPG, well documented ways to boost, Easy to tune and no more carb issues. 
I am simply going to be able to drive my beloved vehicle every day and know that it will not take a 5 min procedure to get it warmed up. I would not trust the car as is to drive more than 30 minutes from my house. Once complete, I expect to be able to drive to visit my family in Georgia whenever I please. 


The audio install will be phase 3. 

Phase 1-The motor (make the car drivable)
Phase 2-bodywork and paint (Operation rust bust and paint)
Phase 3- audio install (High quality SQ plus install similar to my jeep install) Audiofrog GB10, GB25, JL zr800, JBL W15GTI MKII 
Phase 3.5-upholstery (closely related to audio)
Phase 4- Suspension (Air ride)


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I am over the moon! Motor is in and all accessories fit! I put the belt on and it fits. I already know that the exhaust manifolds fit so Hallelujah it is time to begin getting it all plumbed, wired and at least be able to run the motor. The belt is still close to the steering but I think I may be able to change the one bolt on the steering box to a lower profile one. Maybe a socket head.

Awesome!
Photos to follow as always.


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

This is so cool! My first car was a 77 LaSabre. I'm always so impressed by folks that can decide to swap a motor and-poof it's done. I'd be lucky to change my own oil.


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## OME573X (Apr 18, 2020)

Very nice! Noticed it looks like the muscle car/holley swap pan, fits nicely... in regards to the ICTBILLET comment, they sell brackets to move factory LS car, truck and vette acc. Into different locations, they also sell brackets to maintain stock older GM acc. And some that blend the 2 together... 

Not new acc. Themselves, that's tooooo much $$$ imo lol... but for a decent price on a bracket set up to use what fits better or what you have..... they are worth looking onto, they also sell a nice pan for $150 ....7q steel that clears as well as the Fbody pan and all sorts of other goodies... including all sorts of coil brackets and relocation brackets if you have any issues with coil #8 clearing the heater box/AC..

Also sell a trick Billet valley cover with stainless Hardware for less than most Stainless Hardware costs lmao... like $30 shipped. Payed $25 for my Billet motor mount swaps.

Brian Tooley is another great place.... 

Definitely subscribed!!!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

mfenske said:


> This is so cool! My first car was a 77 LaSabre. I'm always so impressed by folks that can decide to swap a motor and-poof it's done. I'd be lucky to change my own oil.


Was definitely not a decide and poof situation necessarily. I have been planning this carefully for some time.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

OME573X said:


> Very nice! Noticed it looks like the muscle car/holley swap pan, fits nicely... in regards to the ICTBILLET comment, they sell brackets to move factory LS car, truck and vette acc. Into different locations, they also sell brackets to maintain stock older GM acc. And some that blend the 2 together...
> 
> Not new acc. Themselves, that's tooooo much $$$ imo lol... but for a decent price on a bracket set up to use what fits better or what you have..... they are worth looking onto, they also sell a nice pan for $150 ....7q steel that clears as well as the Fbody pan and all sorts of other goodies... including all sorts of coil brackets and relocation brackets if you have any issues with coil #8 clearing the heater box/AC..
> 
> ...


Holley pan- Yes
No need for any additional brackets now because everything fits. One goal for this was to save some $$$ by planning everything to use the factory accessories and I have accomplished that goal.


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## OME573X (Apr 18, 2020)

Looks good. Love your wheel choice as well


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Looks like Im going to be cutting and reshaping some sheet metal soon. Tranny doesn't fit as expected. In the AM I will have to decide plasma cutter or mini sabre saw.

Either way the tunnel must be modified. The small line and indentation near the middle of the tunnel (next to some fuzzy stuff) is the location of the tail end of the trans where I have to raise up.

My motorcycle jack is the perfect tool to lift and position the tranny.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

If it were biblical it could have read like this...

And the Lord said unto the child of God, "Be not afraid my son to cut the Royal metal of Buick that it should make possible the divine installation of glorious mechanical creation!"
And in the end, it was as the Lord had commanded. The divine installation had come to pass.


Ok I am done being silly. 
Tranny is mostly in. Gotta find the bottom two bolts that I misplaced and torque them all down. I also will have to cut a tad bit more metal for proper clearance after I mahe sure the installed angle is about 3 degrees. Then there's the rest of the tunnel. I must cut it out all the way back if I ever want a driveshaft to fit happy with the progress so far though. 

I will have to do a G8 tranny pan swap fore the tranny pan to up a bit more. It involves getting a G8 6l80e pan, welding an extension in and swapping the filter. This will make it a dip stick free pan but can still change the oil using a specific service procedure. The pan is about $35


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Tranny x member in progress. Using scrap that I have. These supports came from battery rack supports that held batteries for data system backups. I had a bunch of them laying around so it is good to finally make use of them. I still have quite a few. Anyways, the tailshaft is within .03 degrees of the rear end pinion. Essentially they are parallel as they should be.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Just purchased HP tuners so I am getting closer to starting this bad boy. The software will be here Tuesday and I would be pretty pleased if I am able to open the box, download the software, delete VATS and start it on Tuesday. Again, I will not be ready to drive it but I want to at least hear the motor this month. I hope to have a good bit of progress this weekend.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well, I spent the majority of the day on my back under the Car today. It was worth it though. The progress started bad when i realized that I had forgotten my mig welder bottle open and that resulted in a completely empty bottle. I had planned to finish welding the tranny x member today. After moping around pissed, I decided that progress must be made. I thought of all the stuff that had to be done to start the car and the tranny was not top priority.

So I bolted the x member up as it is (completely tig tacked and 100% suitable for test fitting)
I ran the stainless lines from front to back then figured that mounting the tank had to be done in order to complete the job. Well that turned into hours of test fitting and eventually the old tank was gone and the new tank, lines and regulator were all plumbed and the sending unit, pump wire, and grounds had pigtails wired in.

Feels great to have this big step almost completed. I stopped working in order to carve pumpkins with the family.

Here are the photos.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Today I got the starter put on but noticed that it was harder to rotate the flywheel when I was installing the flywheel bolts. I realized that I never put oil back in after the oil pan install. So I grabbed the oil and filter and after 6 qts All was good. 

I installed the new water pump gaskets and torqued the pump to spec. I torqued the tranny bolts and the power steering/alternator bracket. 

I installed and torqued the intake manifold to spec after realizing that duct tape is not easy to get off the port openings. I had to plug the ports and scrape the residue after a degreaser spray down. 

I installed the coil packs but realize that the coil for cylinder 7 is broken( from junkyard straps during removal). I will replace it before the first start. 

Lastly, I got tired of hitting the fan so I got a pipewrench from the store and heated the nut holding it on with my torch to expand it. A few whacks with a hammer and the fan was able to be screwed off. It will interfere with the intake piping. 

I cant wait to get my weld argon co2 bottle swapped tomorrow so I can mig my tranny xmember before sandblasting, painting and reinstalling it. Work is starting to get critical. I am making lists of what is left in order to test fire. Sandblasting and painting the manifolds is on the shortlist. I need to get them installed so I can fit up some pipes with O2 sensors. I also need to return the factory style MAF and buy the 4inch MAF that matches the intake pipe I have.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Returned the factory van maf and bought a 4inch pipe adapter with a card style maf. Welded the tranny x member up and prepared for the final parts of it to get welded (exhaust hole bottoms)
Bolted the new tank back up so only wiring is left.

Only photos taken were of the welded xmember with crappy welds since I literally welded it in the dark. You wont see the welds as they are on top of the xmember though.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I got exactly what I wanted to get done completed tonight. I got the intake cut and added the new MAF in the middle and got the intake in what is an 85% chance of being the final spot.

I also got the tranny crossmember in its final welded state. I still need to sandblast and paint it but there is no more welding needed on it. It has holes for a 2.5 inch exhaust to pass through it. I kind of wanted space for a 3 inch exhaust but the manifolds I got are only 2.5in so no reason to do 3 inch. The x-member is very stout. It has a little curve in it by design for strength.

Last, I got my HP tuners goodies in the mail. I will play with that later.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Just ordered my Stainless pipe for the exhaust. I went with the 2.5 based solely on the availability. I will be off work on election day and the day after and it is supposed to get delivered that day so can work on it the whole day on the 4th. Now I have to pick out the mufflers. Probably Magnaflow with an H-pipe but I may go with some kind of chambered muffler like flowmaster. Last flowmaster exhaust I had got really annoying over time though. Everything will be tig welded. 

*DNA Motoring ZTL-25SS 16Pcs 2.5 Inches DIY Custom Exhaust Pipe Kit Straight & Bend





Amazon.com: DNA Motoring ZTL-25SS 16Pcs 2.5 Inches DIY Custom Exhaust Pipe Kit Straight & Bend: Automotive


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*


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Tranny cooler purchased-

*EVIL ENERGY 8 Pass Tube and Fin Transmission Cooler Universal 5/16" Oil Cooler Kit Aluminium Black*








Amazon.com: EVIL ENERGY 8 Pass Tube and Fin Transmission Cooler Universal 5/16" Oil Cooler Kit Aluminium Black : Automotive


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www.amazon.com


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

My kind of build thread and I'm not a GM fan! Awesome work so far!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

The first tranny cooler got lost in the mail so I changed to this one









Amazon.com: Hayden Automotive 678 Rapid-Cool Plate and Fin Transmission Cooler : Automotive


Buy Hayden Automotive 678 Rapid-Cool Plate and Fin Transmission Cooler: Accessories - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

BP1Fanatic said:


> My kind of build thread and I'm not a GM fan! Awesome work so far!


Thank you Sir!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Oh what a difference a stinking inch makes!

After test fitting the exhaust manifolds for the last time, I decided to start fitting the stainless pipes for the downpipe. It was then that I realized that the front passenger side control arm perch would not allow the pipe to fit straight. After about 8 hours of pondering, I finally admitted it to myself. The motor has to move to the rear. Unfortunately the bracket holding the AC unit was in the way. Well, after notching the bracket, I was able to move the motor about 1 inch back which solved all sorts of problems.

1. I no longer need to worry about the power steering pulley hitting the steering box.

2. The exhaust should be easier to fit up.

3.The motor mount bolts are easier to access with a wrench.

4. Obviously moving the motor to the rear will slightly shift the weight back which is good.

Cons..
1. Have to drill 2 new holes for the tranny crossmember.
2. May have to trim a tiny bit more tunnel in one area.


Overall, this one inch saved a whole bunch of heartache an some cash too. 


As far as fuel, I got the tanksinc kit pa-6 with the 400 walbro good to 900hp. Fuel filter regulator is a holley 12-888 for like 175 gph(662 lph). I built the fuel system for a boosted future. The tank pics with new sending unit were posted here.



The hard part is here. I have so many little things to figure out. The motor is in, wires installed, plumbed and as of tonight power steering hooked up. Now I have to work out the down pipe fit, wire the pedal and hook up the fuel pump wires. The tranny cooler came in so gotta get that put in too.

Just so many little things! Now is where the car has to realize it got a new heart. Once started, it will be a while before I get it on the road since the whole tunnel has to come up and I need to figure out the shifter.

I just want to hear it roar though!

I guess I will attach my latest photos.
View attachment 282211
View attachment 282212
View attachment 282213
View attachment 282214
View attachment 282215
View attachment 282216


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Getting back at it after a little break.

Today I replaced the broken coil. It may have still worked but why take a chance. FYI, if you pull your own motor or if the yard pulls it for you, be careful that the straps or chains do not damage the coils. I noticed the broken coil when I got the motor home.

I have to buy the o2 sensors now. That sucks. I wish these suckers came with the factory manifolds.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

I had a Ford dealer damage a coil pack on my F150 Harley truck and instead of being honest about it and replace it they fixed it with silicone and a zip tie. I was under the hood the next day cleaning it when I saw it. I know for a fact that it was not like that before I took it to them and they said I couldn't prove it. Never went back.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Its been a few slow days with the car. I had to figure out alot of little things. I solved a few problems after much thought. I have a bit of a roadblock though that I finally sorted. The big roadblock is the exhaust manifolds. I have purchased all sorts of stuff to paint them but in the end, I finally broke down and got some cerakote C series on the way. I am trying to decide between glacier black or glacier silver. I bought both. The thing is that I just could not bare the thought of painting the manifolds only to have them ugly soon after. The only product I had never seen any bad reviews of was the cerakote. I sand blasted the manifolds in preparation for the cerakote when it gets here. 

Next, I hated the super long van dipstick for the tranny. I solved it by cutting the tube and dipstick ensuring that I have the same stickout. I drilled the new holes and riveted it back together. 

In the process somewhere, I broke the brand new oil dipstick tube so I had to buy another. I also cut a corner off the dirty dingo slider mount so the tube would fit better. I had to grind off the paint on the dipstick tube and use antiseize to get the tube in. 

I got the o2 sensors in so now I can finish out the downpipes. 
I began trying to figure out where I will put the computer and fuse box. 
I decided to go with factory GM exhaust manifold gaskets so I bought those. 

For the moment, I think I will be putting the battery back in the stock location. Eventually it will go in the trunk. The problem is that the location I was going to put it is compromised. I went back there and realized that the area will need new sheet metal. I put my finger right through the floor. Dang!

Well, slowly but surely I will get this sucker completed.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Ouch! Just ordered the radiator. Every dollar seems to hurt now.








Be Cool 35204 Be Cool Bone Yard LS Swap Radiators | Summit Racing


Free Shipping - Be Cool Bone Yard LS Swap Radiators with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Radiators at Summit Racing.




www.summitracing.com


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Vacuum line to the brake booster done. I had to adapt from 3/8th at the factory booster to 1/2 at the LS vacuum port.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

After a bunch of troubleshooting, anger and some alcoholic beverages I finally figured out all the wiring to make the Regal crank correctly. Apparently one of my wires is broken internally and not making contact. That wire is spliced into another wire and I assumed that since they are connected, that only one needed to be hooked to 12v. Well the one that I have hooked up was the broken one. Once I hooked the other wire up to battery, I hooked the Regal wire that used to be purple to the LS wire that is purple......finally! I heard the motor crank! The fuel pump is not hooked up otherwise she probably would have started. 

So now I need to hook up the fuel pump wires, then cerakote the headers, finish the downpipes with O2 sensors and put a little fuel in her. 

Then she will be ready to fire up for the first time as a newly married car and motor!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I'm so tired! I stayed up till the weee hours of the morning losing my mind as to why the fuse box connectors do not match what is supposed to be for a 2010 express van. I verified that I am using the correct documents for the year van that I verified by the VIN number. As I took a sip of whiskey admitting defeat and about to go to bed, I had a Eureka moment. It dawned upon me to check the diagrams for adjacent year vehicles. BAM!! that was it. I have the motor and trans from a 2010 Express 3500 but my wiring diagrams match a 2011 express van. .....Damnit GM!! I was too tired to continue troubleshooting my issue so I went to bed but after work today I will resume trying to find my trigger wire that powers up the fuse panel. I know which relay but I gotta find the wire. I believe that is why I am not able to connect to my PCM through the roughed in OBDII port. I wasted hours trying to verify each wire to each pin and nothing matched up. Now I know why.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Baked the exhaust manifolds in preparation to spray cerakote. 

Also made headway on the computer. I hooked up a relay and got 12v to the wires turning it on. Read the vin and my obd2 adapter was able to read too.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Edit.... although still stupid, I realized that my dust collector was in fact malfunctioning so that was probably half of the problem. 
This edit was written after the following----



Dead serious, I really did not think it would be that bad. .....very wrong I was. Never again!

I opened the bottle of cerakote and thought, "that is not T H A T bad". So I went for it. Since it was like 44degrees in the garage, I figured a quick spray with my downdraft dust collector sucking the air out side would be harmless. So my dumb ass sprayed the stuff. About a quarter of the way in I realize that although this stuff smells like super strong latex paint in liquid form. It will choke you when it is atomized!. Thank God the fam was not here. While the smell never really made it upstairs, I quickly had to get a better crossflow to get the fumes out the house. When atomized, this stuff gets strong kind of like oven cleaner. 

What a stupid thing to do. Shame on me. I know better. I could have simply fired up the garage heater and waited a little until it was up to temps. That is where I spray my primers and automotive paints. 

So there you go folks. Do not be dumb like me. 

The manifolds are coated but I am still ashamed that I did it.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

😭Words of wisdom for the day-
Doesnt matter how well you sprayed cerakote on your headers ......if you drop one while removing it from the hanger.

Todays progress-Cerakote cure -part 2


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

ndm said:


> if you drop one while removing it from the hanger.


Done that more than once over the years.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Manifolds installed with minor scuffs from installation. The oil dipstick design is stupid. Imo.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Dip a q-tip in the spray and dab. It will touch that up nicely.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> Dip a q-tip in the spray and dab. It will touch that up nicely.


Will do, I aint that worried about it though. I knew it was going to happen on that side. The other side went on no problem.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Success! Figured out the wiring and deleted vats.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Passenger side downpipe complete. Chose to mig weld for speed. It is still 304 stainless steel. I did the hardest side first.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Both downpipes welded and ready for service. Also won a Darwin award for the hole in the garbage can. Forgot it was hot. My bad!


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

ndm said:


> Also won a Darwin award for the hole in the garbage can.


Better the garbage can than you - maybe evolution is working.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Tranny cooler and radiator hoses plumbed. Next up radiator overflow tank will get mounted and I need to get the steam vent plumbed into the radiator. I realize that I will have to forego doing air conditioning for a while which is not a big deal. I am sure I will get it hooked up before I need it. Found an oil leak at the oil cooler plug. I may have forgotten to put the seal on. I will sort that out as soon as I can. I also forgot that I need to remove the tranny x member, sand blast it and paint before reinstalling it. 

Unfortunately the weather is about to get real winter-like and I will be freezing my nads off from here on out. It might slow things down a little.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Fixed the oil leak. I simply forgot to tighten the bolts for the oil cooler port plug. It was barely passed finger tight. 
Today I hooked the fuel gauge wire back up. It had been cut at some point. I added an extension and put a connector on it to allow more room for disassembly.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Last night I cut the beginning phase of the crossover pipes that will clamp to the downpipes. I am pretty sure I want to do an H-pipe instead of an x-pipe. I like the H-pipe sound better. I have to pick my mufflers now. I will probably do magnaflow.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

This thing is very, very close to starting!! I really could have started it already but I keep prolonging it by closing loops. I am knocking off small things until I have no choice but to have to admit that it is time to start it. I am being deliberate and persistent. I am forcing myself to just accomplish something each day. Eventually I will run out of things to do.

Tonight, I got the radiator overflow done. I got the steam port plumbed in too. For the radiator, I took a 1/4 npt stainless barbed nipple and cut the threads off to make a bung. I then welded the bung over the existing small port of the stainless tank that I had purchased. This way I do not need any sort of adapters. Then I took the brackets that came with the tank and welded them instead of bolting them on. I then used self tappers to attach to the car. I will eventually replace the self tappers with stainless nuts and bolts.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well hallelujah! My H-pipe is tacked up. Im going to be mig welding it and will probably have to cut it in the middle of the H. Stainless steel likes to move alot during welding. I fully expect it to want to shrink toward the middle. No biggie though. A single clamp in the middle will fix that. 

I also dropped off the driveshaft, yoke and u joint for a quote to get a new driveshaft made. Hopefully the cost won't make me poop myself.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Very nicely done and not that opinion counts, but I also suggest Magnaflow. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Dang! the slip yoke that was removed from the Van at a cost of $120 had a micro crack in it. I just bought a new one and thank GOD that Summit had it for $69. That said, I will have a new driveshaft next week. I would have had one today if it were not for that damn expensive paperweight. For anyone looking for one for a 2wd 6l90e tranny, the part number is

ACDelco Driveshaft Slip Yokes 23251192








ACDelco 23251192 ACDelco Driveshaft Slip Yokes | Summit Racing


Get fast, Free Standard Shipping on orders over Summit Racing Equipment from $99 -- no shipping, handling, or rural fees! Exclusions apply.




www.summitracing.com


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> Very nicely done and not that opinion counts, but I also suggest Magnaflow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I definitely love magnaflow.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I’m more of a Borla guy but for my muscle cars nothing beats Magnaflow.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

So, I got the new yoke and dropped it off to the driveshaft place. In the mean time I can now actually shift the tranny. I used a Lokar 1804 kit and modified it to fit. The first thing was that the aluminum bracket that comes with the kit does not fit due to space constraints under the booster. After getting mad and pondering a bit, I realized that I could flip the bracket on the tranny so that the shifter lever is above on top instead of on the bottom. This makes the cable completely retracted in park instead of extended. Then, I got rid of the aluminum bracket and replaced it with a simple stainless steel "L" bracket that I drilled for the cable and for an attachment bolt. Now the whole cable operates in the opposite direction as it was intended but works. The only issue is that the gear selector does not quite line up with the selected gear which I will fix by installing a digital gear selector indicator if I cannot get it adjusted. It is not that far off though. In drive it shows neutral. 

As always, here are some photos.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Made an aluminum bracket to adapt the pedal. After a test fit, it is great and just needs a couple holes slotted because I apparently welded it slightly crooked. Then again I could just mount the pedal cover that I will be getting to make it look 100% straight. Truth be told, it looks straight from the angle that I was in while fitting the plates. Once you sit down in driving position it looks crooked. Either way, I still have to reinforce the bracket but Im happy with my progress. Yes, welds are ugly. Lol..


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Would ja look at that! Just look at it! Isnt that somethin? Driveshaft is done.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Went with 14 inch magnaflow mufflers after much deliberation. I don't want too loud so I was going to go with the 18 inch version. In the end, the 14 in was available locally and I figured, its gonna be a hot rod. If it ends up being too loud for my tastes, I will just change it. Thats what is so great about being your own builder! If there ends up being drone, I will build a hemholtz resonator like I did on my srt jeep to target the exact frequency that is the problem.

Anyways, tonight's progress is not much but significant since I did weld the H-pipe up completely and cut the crossover in half to enable installing the clamp which will give me more wiggle room in the exhaust. As I welded the h-pipe up, one of the properties of stainless steel came to visit. Stainless likes to move around more when welded from heat. Not a big deal with the clamp installed.

I also picked up the hose needed to complete the remaining cooling stage of the car which is the heater lines. Once I install them and fix the heater control valve vacuum line that I broke, the cooling system will be 100%. This will also mean that all of the old hoses will be gone finally.

I did not want to spend almost the same amount for single hole overlap band clamps as I did for the double hole butt joint band clamps so I bought extra of the the doubles and cut them in half on my bandsaw. Worked extremely well and I saved money. The single hole ones were not available to ship fast enough so this worked out well.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Man this is really going well on your end. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> Man this is really going well on your end.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thank you, I am doing my best. This is my first LS swap and I did not want to rush. It would have been easier to do a gen 3 LS motor but I am glad I got a gen 4. I believe that the 6l90 will prove to be a very good thing. I should be cruising at under 2000 rpm while doing like 70mph. That will all help with having a quiet cabin for my audio equipment. I am just happy to almost be on to the next phase! Soon you all will get to enjoy the audio build.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Who is the man that would risk his neck for his brother, man? (Shaft)
Can ya dig it?
.......Who's the cat that won't cop out when there's danger all about? (Shaft)
Right on
You see this cat Shaft is a bad mother (Shut your mouth)
But I'm talkin' about Shaft (Then we can dig it)
He's a complicated man but no one understands him but his woman........


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Exhaust is almost complete. I installed the downpipe seals and torqued the bolts. I may take the bolts off again one at a time since i forgot the the antiseize on the bolts. Need to install the 02 sensors, 2 hangers and 2 turndowns (temporary) and I will be complete with the exhaust until I decide what I want to do instead of the turndowns. I will drive it that way in the mean time.

If you did not get the joke in my previous post, the point was that the new driveshaft is installed. I used lyrics from an old song called shaft to make my point.

That is all for tonight. Im tired so gotta sleep.

Tomorrow I plan to install the heater hoses and fill the radiator as well as finish the exhaust. I still dont have the fans but that wont keep me from starting it up which will happen soon


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Sweet well I hope that you’ll be filming the startup. This way we can live vicariously through you lol. Ok is it morning yet so we can get the party started. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Turn down for what! Exhaust complete! Made some hangers and a couple turndowns. Tig welded the turndowns but mig welded the hangers to the turndowns while upside down under the car. 

Earlier, my 8 yr old son and I finished adding the coolant after I hooked up the heater hoses. Coolant system is complete too. He was very interested in watching the bubbles with my flashlight. It was great for me because he asked to come check out what I was doing without me prompting him. I was so proud! He even got some coolant on his hand while holding up the heater hose. I assured him that he had not been poisoned.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Now see those are the special moments as my father was never around for us to do car things together. Had to learn on my own, but hey I harbor no grudge. I’m sure your son had the best time learning from someone he loves. I can’t wait until you let him fire this up for the first time when it’s ready for the road.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Success is not always easy. Sometimes it represents a series of tries and failures to achieve your goal. Tonight, success was just outside my grasp. I settled into one of those failures but I am fine with it. 

I had started my video recorder and wished myself well. I had put exactly 5 gallons of 87 octane in the tank. I verified that the fuel gauge works. Success!....verified the battery was hooked up in the trunk after installing the circuit breaker. Success!....I had replaced the old radiator cap with a fresh new one from the local O'Reilly's. Success!....

Finally, the time had come. I looked the car over and made sure that the fuel was not leaking anywhere and readied the key. I gave it a few moments to get fuel pressure.Success! ..then....crank.....

Failure prevailed! While she cranked well, I realized that there is something wrong with my wiring. I am not getting spark. I spent the rest of the evening going over the wiring and decided to make a stand alone harness which I got alot accomplished before settling in for bed. 

I will get it....just wont be tonight!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Max Damage said:


> How exciting! The time has come.
> Looking forward to hearing that thing...


Yes, it is exciting. I have laid on my back under this thing for what seems like forever and I am excited to be close to hearing my baby cry for the first time!

This is my current checklist-


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

WTF, no fuel pressure!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

So, the good news is that I was able to find that there is no fuel coming out of the fuel line. I was also able to hear her try to run with starter fluid sprayed into the intake. The bad news is that I will have to drop the tank to see why the fuel is not getting to the rail anymore. The first time I primed the fuel, I checked and there was fuel pressure in the rail. Now there is nothing. The feed line inside the tank may have come loose somehow. I honestly will probably cut an access hole so that the tank does not have to be removed. Either way the show must go on. If the pump stopped working, I will have to warranty a replacement.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Ok. Dropped the tank. Found the issue. The wires on the inside were swapped. After looking closely, they are different sizes which should indicate the right polarity but it was not marked. I fixed a few bugaboo items when I reinstalled the tank.

Tested it but still no start. The fuel verification test was a success though. Plenty of pressure there. Photo shows fuel that pumped to the bottle from the tank

I also installed the crankcase breather filter. I did this to allow me to not have to drill a hole in me intake tubing.

Over the next few days I will sort out the wiring issues and try to fire again. One thing is for sure, I wont be recording the start until I know it will start. Sorry, just superstitious.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

As a sign of confidence, I am going to post this photo where I am pretty sure in the next 15 min I will have fixed my issue. I will explain then.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Forgot to hit send after that last post. If you look very closely under the red wire there is a single ground wire that I completely overlooked. while troubleshooting, I saw that little sucker laying there. When it contacted the head, I heard clickity click. Now, I can connect to the motor PCM again. Now I am just troubleshooting the last (hopefully) few things that are preventing me from running.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

The Troublesome ground.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well folks! At 11:35pm after having an epiphany as I lay in bed for yet another desperate youtube and google binge... Glory!! 

I have finally heard my beast roar! It was not obnoxious like I prefer. It was very, very nice!

So as I was in bed I was reading another guys post having the exact same issue as me, I realized two things. First, I knew exactly what his issue was. He never deleted VATs. Then Second, I realized what I did wrong. I never disabled the starter fault checks! I could not help it, I got up and threw on some clothes and leaped into my crocs to get to my tuning computer and straight to the garage. I quickly made my change in hp tuners and started the longest 10 minute wait ever. So now I did a quick ignition test and then quickly turned it over when all of a sudden.....Woomf!!!

I did it! I took a small video we will call first startup take 2 and now I am in the bed all giddy because I know that this phase is almost wrapped up. I need to sleep but that will be hard to do for obvious reasons. I will upload a proper video as soon as I can. For those watching and waiting with me I know you are excited to see this loop closed! I still need fans but for now......

.....I am elated


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I have been doing the shakedown before deciding that it is good to drive. I have some definite exhaust leaks at the clamps. I an going to have to get that figured out. 

I had a radiator fluid leak that was due to a missed partially tightened hose clamp.

So far so good though. I have to resist the urge to drive it until everything is buttoned up. 

Still overjoyed to have this thing fired up.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Here is a short video of the car running yesterday morning.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I think I fixed my vacuum leak now it is 20 in/hg and my exhaust leak. Filled the tranny with a bunch of fluid but I think I need to bleed the brakes. I am thinking that maybe it will soon be time to test drive around the block. 

I had no idea that the 6l90e took 10 plus quarts of Atf VI. This tranny is crazy


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Man that is going to be one bad muthaaaaa once it’s bottled up.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> Man that is going to be one bad muthaaaaa once it’s bottled up.


F-word , Yes would be my response!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

New fans will be picked up at 5 today. That should complete the major parts needed for my swap.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...y/fa70453/4782214/2002/chevrolet/camaro?pos=0


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

While I am quite glad that I found the problem, I am almost devastated that it means that I will not be able to test drive the car. I found my brake line leak and I will need new brake lines. No brakes, no drive. 

I am super bummed because I thought I was done crawling under the car for a while.....which is now not the case.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

One thing after the other. Replaced the broken fuel line but could not bleed the rear. Figured out that my proportioning valve was tripped due to the line blowout. Got that reset. Still cant bleed the rear....as I am checking hoses, I grab the hose from the axle to the hard-line. It became crystal clear why I could not bleed the rear brakes. The photo tells the story. I am currently waiting for the heat-penetrant-heat-penetrant cycle so I can remove yet another two brake line fittings to repair the problem.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well brakes are fixed. Got the fans wired too. All I need to do is strap the fans to the radiator after an idle test tomorrow. Had them wired correct polarity but they went the wrong direction. Fixed that now were good. 

Today might be the first drive if the tires hold air


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I am looking forward to reading about its maiden voyage sir.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> I am looking forward to reading about its maiden voyage sir.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sooo pissed off! No test drive for a while. I fricking hate winter!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I put the hood back on and was pleased to find that it clears with no issue at all. I put my camera inside with a flashlight in video mode to confirm. Technically the wire loom touches the hood slightly but that will be remedied when I delete the loom. I also got the fans attached to the radiator. I guess now that the snow has ruined my chance for a drive, I will move on to maybe something else. Maybe closure of the tunnel? Maybe moving the bumper brackets in order to tuck the bumper in 3 inches. I dont know.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I like the thought of tucking that bumper in, that’s what was done on my Chevy Chevelle back in the day.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> I like the thought of tucking that bumper in, that’s what was done on my Chevy Chevelle back in the day.


It will get rid of the ugly often crumbling bumper fillers and shorten the car 6 inches once the front and back are done.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well, looks like I am going to be doing a hydro boost brake upgrade. My booster seems bad. Rather than spend $100-ish bucks on a replacement, I might as well double it and get hyrdoboost. My power steering pump already came with a hydro boost reservoir so that is good. I was going to try a loop around the block but the brakes still are not quite right


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Max Damage said:


> Does the engine make insufficient vacuum for the regular old power brake setup? Or do you plan to go to cam that causes that in the future?
> 
> If not, what is the advantage of the Hydro-boost?


I am getting 20 in/hg for vacuum so that is not a problem. Hydro-boost is just a better way to brake IMO. In all the stories that I have seen of folks changing over to hydro-boost, I do not recall ever seeing that it was any regret. All the stories I am hearing is that hydro-boost gives old tired cars as good or better brakes than modern cars. That and you get to delete that big ole vacuum booster can that is fugly as hell. I do plan to cam the car very soon but that is not the deciding factor.

I am essentially building a resto-mod with all the features of a modern car but with the soul of a classic. This is an opportunity to upgrade just like the new motor and future disc brake conversion.
I guess the best justification is because.....Why not! I already have to drop coin on a vacuum booster so might as well future proof the car. I have already come this far so the measly buck fifty additional cash is peanuts compared to the cash spent thus far and considering how much better the braking will be.

Considering the weight specs, the Buick will weigh about the same as a 2020 camaro ss and after the cam it will have a little more HP and torque. I would prefer to give it similar braking performance as well. Consider that the plan is also to mount a LSA Blower to the Buick and that requirement becomes more important!

*2020 Chevrolet Camaro*/Curb weigh 3,351 to 4,120 lbs
*1977 Buick Regal / *Weight : 3550 lbs | 1610.253 kg


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Yes!
Went to the junk yard and got a hydroboost with a master cylinder and a return hose for $30. I am very pleased. Gotta order some high pressure line and fittings and install this thing asap.

Also got my ECM mounted


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

So win win all across the board the, when is the maiden voyage now ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Like new! Just need paint on the rear section.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> So win win all across the board the, when is the maiden voyage now ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Maybe mid week. Gotta wait for An fittings and hose to come in next week.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Dang. The hose was delayed in shipping today. The only part needed for plumbing the hydroboost. That sucks.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Hydroboost installed... had to use my factory master cylinder until I can make a new bracket since I had to add washers to keep the reservoir from hitting the hood. The bleeding process takes a long time so I decided to finish tomorrow. I will also probably cut the link to the pedal and weld the one on from the old booster. The holes are not the same size. Its either that or make a sleeve to take up the extra space. That may be a better option. I could also weld up the hole and redrill it to the right size too. 

Anyways there is a ton of extra room now with that big ass can booster gone now.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well I guess I am cursed. A replacement radiator is on the way, apparently this aluminum radiator does not like having straps attaching it like I have done in the past. I guess the fins broke and are leaking. I will fab up different mounting brackets before the new one comes in.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I swear, Im going to lose it! I have absolutely had it with these f-ing brakes. I cannot get the portioning valve to reset. Not by pushing the button, not by slamming the brakes with the working side bleeder open and not by pushing the pin from the disassembled rear brake side.

I made a reverse pressure bleeder which worked perfectly on the front. I cannot bleed the rear because this G-D portioning valve is stuck therefore cutting off the path to the rear. To make matters worse, I found a torn seal inside the portioning valve and you can bet your sweet ass that there are no seal kits available. 

So now, I have to buy a new portioning valve and install it. That seems simple right? Nah. The fricking rust is going to guarantee that I will be under the car for 2 days trying to get everything loose. 

At this time I am about to say screw it and do the test drive with front brakes only then when I get the rest of the car together, drop the damn thing off at a shop to let them rebuild the brake system. 

Brakes are turning out to be my nemesis like drywall. Everyone has that thing that they absolutely hate working on. The damn brakes lines and drywall are it for me.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Rear brakes are for sissies!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

With great ANGER I used an old amazon gift card and purchased a new proportioning/combination valve. My plan is to try to remove the factory lines while mounted on the car but it they won't budge, cut the lines and relocate the new valve in the engine bay since the factory location on the rail is just stupid any way.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Tonight I installed the new combination valve. I used my pressure bleeder to bleed the brakes which went okay. Something is still wrong though. I will have a 5 day weekend to figure it out though. I may just need to replace all the old brake components. Maybe it is time for a disk conversion after all. 

No worries. I will figure it out eventually. Tomorrow I will replace the leaking radiator and send the defective one back. I might just bolt the wheels on and try to drive it. I have brakes just not as firm as I'd like. I bet it will turn out to be something super stupidly simple


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Found another one! Passenger side front brake line has a leak. I guess I wont get away with using any of the old lines at all. I am trying to resist the urge to drive it down the street to my local mechanic to get the rest of the brake lines replaced. I am so tired of working on them.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I will be picking up the two front rubber hoses in the morning and I already have the nicop hardline to replace the broken line. There will be only 3 original lines left after all is said and done.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Getting closer. I re-bled the brakes using a simple pressure plate that I made from a piece of 1/4 inch steel and some fittings. I was able to put a positive 20psi in the master cylinder making the bleeding way easier than any other method that I have tried. The reverse pressure bleed works but wow is pressure bleeding simple. Basically it replaces the second person (pedal pusher) with positive pressure. I think that in the future I want to bleed with reverse pressure and then follow up with pressure bleeding. Maybe vice versa, Idk. 

Anyways, I now have no more sinking pedal feel but I have a seal kit on the way for a hydroboost rebuild just as good measure. Tomorrow I am going to attempt to get a ride around the block after cleaning up all the mess made during all this brake troubleshooting nonsense. 😬🚘🤞


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

PHASE 1 COMPLETE!!!!
She is a driver!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well for those keeping score, I am going on to phase 2 which is Rust bust and paint. First is closing the tranny tunnel with new metal. I have been driving it with the drive shaft within arms reach and I must get that rectified now. I will then clean up all the floor panels and epoxy the exposed metal. Once epoxied, I will add deadener since the SPI epoxy I use does not need a topcoat. I figure I will get the interior rust proof and then do the interior upholstery. Once the weather gets warm, I can switch over to exterior work. 

I discussed it with my family and the official name for this car is ....drumroll please......

*"GRANNY PANTIES"*


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Max Damage said:


> Kind of curious about your experience on the road? How did it feel? Congrats!


The car feels scary at the moment due to a few major items. 
First- the hole in the floor is still open so driving it with the spinning driveshaft U joint staring you in the face kind of keeps my mind on making sure that there is nothing that could potentially get caught and pull me into it. That would be very bad!
Second-the car needs tires. All the tires are very old and I am currently using the original spare tire since I had a dry rotted tire on there. 
Third- Shocks....they need replaced in a bad way. The car is not planted like a new car at the moment. 

HOWEVER---
I can tell that the car is a beast. It pulls very hard and definitely will have traction problems. Obviously it is a completely different car since it started with around 140hp and is now probably around 400hp. Once I programed the ecu with the correct gear ratio, I was able to see the actual speed and realized that 60mph comes up very quickly. Fortunately the car wiggles alot which is a great warning that it is time to slow down. The 6 speed is a world of difference from the old tired 3 speed! My logic for the current power level is this. The 2010 L96 was estimated at 360 hp. I added a big ole cold air intake, deleted cats, mechanical fan and am running a much more free flowing exhaust and optimized tuning so I feel like I can safely expect that I am over 400hp now. Most folks with the old cathedral port 6.0's were running about 420hp with the same mods. (At the motor of course)

Once I get the hole in the floor closed and replace the shocks and tires I will have a better ability to get it loose but I already know that it will be wild! Keep in mind that the weight of this car is within about 200lb of a Camaro SS so you can get the idea. I have already removed about 50lb from the front of the car by moving the battery to the trunk (35lb) and by cutting 11lbs so far from the front bumper bracket. I will most likely remove the entire steel support structure from the bumper to replace it with a much lighter steel support with bumper foam for lighter weight impact resistance. 
1977 Buick Regal 5.7 V8 -3845lbs
2010 Chevy Camaro SS -3860 lbs
2021 Chevy Camaro SS -3685lbs


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

FINALLY!!

So I am putting this information out there to help someone in the same situation in the future. I noticed in HP tuners that the MAF was not registering. I used this MAF Amazon.com: GM Genuine Parts 213-4222 Mass Airflow Sensor with Intake Air Temperature Sensor: Automotive
-GM Genuine Parts 213-4222 Mass Airflow Sensor with Intake Air Temperature Sensor

and this 4 inch tube adapter- Amazon.com: Spectre Performance 9705 4" Aluminum Mass Air Flow Sensor Adapter Kit: Automotive
-Spectre Performance 9705 4" Aluminum Mass Air Flow Sensor Adapter Kit

So, the issue is that the MAF calibration is not the same as the factory L96 MAF tables and needs to be changed in order for the car to run okay. Without the change in the tables, it will start with the maf plugged in but will quickly run like poop and die. The solution is as follows. Remember, if you have a different motor, the solution will be similar but different.

First thing first, the MAF wiring is not the same on the van motor as it is on the LS3/LS7 MAF so you have to re-pin the connector which turned out to be amazingly simple. I did it with a small pocket knife. The correct wires should be yellow, black, pink, then two tan wires. Yellow is A (MAF signal) , black is B (Ground) , pink is C (12v) and D and E are IAT sensor wires and do not need to be changed. This step will allow the MAF to read in the car and tuning software. With it wired incorrectly, the car will run but it will actually be running off the speed density tune. Once the wires are corrected, the MAF tables will kick in and of course the car will run like **** since the MAF is not calibrated.

Second- fix the MAF tables. This turns out to be incredible simple too but very frustrating to figure out. Is is as simple as downloading the stock tune from a 2013 Camaro ZL1 and with HP tuners reprogramming the MAF and IAT tables with the correct column axis labels and pasting them into your tune file. After writing to the car, restart the car with the scanner open while monitoring the MAF and IAT scales as well as the commanded AFR.

This will make the car run silky smooth and will allow for you to then proceed with normal MAF tuning. It took me 4 days of frustration to figure this out an therefore I am hoping this will help someone out there.



*EDIT>>>*
To further simplify the MAF and IAT table issue I thought of a very simple way to get ANY most gen 4 GM MAF tune tables to work. Whatever MAF you have, look it up and find out a couple cars that come with the same one. Pick a high performance model and maybe a run of the mill car with the same MAF. Use the HPtuners compare feature to verify that the tables are the same. They should be. Then you can use the compare feature to see the differences between your motor stock MAF and IAT tables and that will kind of highlight what changes need to be made. 

Essentially you are programming your ECM to recognize the same parameters that the MAF is putting out. In DIY Audio terms, its like you are telling a sub amp to look for a 2 ohm sub instead of looking for a 4ohm sub. Or programming a DSP to look for an analog signal instead of a digital signal.


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## MythosDreamLab (Nov 28, 2020)

Wow, this is some hobby you have going here...!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

MythosDreamLab said:


> Wow, this is some hobby you have going here...!


You could say that!

Ever since they gave me my first LEGO I have been ADHD, OCD and extreme DIY about everything that I deem cool. It is an addiction and sometimes becomes overwhelming and very burdensome but at the same time I feel like I can do literally anything that pops up in my mind. The trouble is having the time and funds to accomplish the insane amounts of ideas in my head.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Max Damage said:


> Kind of curious about your experience on the road? How did it feel? Congrats!


 Okay, here is an update to your question....
How does it feel....OMG, this thing is amazing. I have become more comfortable driving it with the tunnel still not replaced. I drove it for the last two days a little bit further and a little bit further. Today I drove it twice. First drive to the city next to mine to pick up a new mouse at bestbuy that was out of stock at my best buy. When I got home, I was so excited that I just had to drive it to my show my parents. I did a burnout for them. Then I headed to my uncle's house and did yet another longer and much more wicked burnout.

The car drives just like a 1976 Buick regal as far as suspension but with a major secret. When you give this thing even the slightest throttle, the wild Camaro demon side comes out. With 2.73 gears in the rear end, this thing brakes the tires loose like nothing. I literally do not have to even touch the brakes to do a burn out. It is quite weird sitting in an old bones car yet hearing the sounds of a modern muscle car trying to rip the pavement off the face of the earth. Again, I am not even really tuned yet and this thing is killer.

Then, when you drive it like a normal human being, it just purs along at like 1500 rpm while going like 55mph and is so quiet and refined. Definitely like Dr. Jekyll/ Mr. Hyde. 

At this point in time, I absolutely no regrets doing this! None at all!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Just a correction. I checked my data log and this thing is cruising at 1487rpm at 62 mph and 1279rpm at 55mph. it is so calm and quiet at cruise.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Schwewwww!!!!! Hibernation is almost over for this project. It has been sooo fricking cold and miserable that I simply have not even wanted to work on the car much. The good news is that next week my big annual bonus pays out and it is time to start selecting and procuring parts again. 

Brakes, tires, steering, Posi with gear change and suspension modifications are coming next as well as body work and metal repair. I will also be selecting my cam and getting that on the way. I will be sprinkling in some upholstery stuff here and there too. 

I cannot wait for all this snow to melt so I can take little joyrides again!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Ok... for tuning purposes, I bought a wideband. Now I can finally squeeze more PoWWa out of this thing!









Amazon.com: Aem 30-0334 Afro Sensor Controller (X-Series Wideband Ugo Gauge With Obie Connectivity) 2.0625 x 0.825 inches : Automotive


Buy Aem 30-0334 Afro Sensor Controller (X-Series Wideband Ugo Gauge With Obie Connectivity) 2.0625 x 0.825 inches: Air & Fuel Ratio - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

Your project sounds amazing! I have a 2-door 85 Buick LeSabre parked in storage with a 1000 mile LS4 from a trophy truck. I did an 6.0 LS swap in my 2000 Escalade but it almost caused a divorce. I believe swap parts and knowledge are more readily available nowadays. You might have motivated me to restart that project! Damn it. 
PLEASE install a drive shaft safety loop before you pole vault the car or worse. I’ve witnessed factory Camaros with spray do this at the drag strip. Scary!
Have you thought about using the Holley Terminator X?


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## Aslmx (Jan 10, 2017)

Love the car. Brings back memories of high school 1988.


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## Rich.E.Rich (Jun 16, 2007)

Awesome Regal. I had a ‘76. Bought it from a friend in the mid-90s with a bad transmission. Had never as much as changed the oil in a car but I replaced the TH350 transmission  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Nice work!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Holy crap! 


Aslmx said:


> Love the car. Brings back memories of high school 1988.


Thanks bud!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Rich.E.Rich said:


> Awesome Regal. I had a ‘76. Bought it from a friend in the mid-90s with a bad transmission. Had never as much as changed the oil in a car but I replaced the TH350 transmission
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah my other 76 has a bad tranny too.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Nice work!


Thanks Huck!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Holy Crap!
I just did some quick measurements and realized that I can fit easily 10 cubic feet of enclosure in only half the trunk!. I think Im going ported with two W15gtimkii subs tuned super deep! I want a no rattle install so I plan to completely isolate the trunk from the cabin. I hate the trunk wanging sound. These subs definitely perform well in big ported enclosures too. 

Ive been remodeling a bathroom and now that it is done, I getting back to the car.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Holy crap that was scary!!

Almost lost the Regal for good. Gas gauge is not working and I ran out of gas while testing my new LED headlights. I knew that this was a possibility but I needed to test the full capacity of the tank which I now know is 17.4 gallons. Well I had put a gas can in the trunk for this very occasion. So here I am in the dark on a busy 4 lane pouring gas into the tank and I see lights approaching very fast. I almost got rear ended by some D bag that was clearly not paying attention. He missed me by about 10 feet at approximately 45mph. I put gas in that thing and got the hell out of there as quickly and I could.

On a positive note, I am attaching new pics of my new headlights.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Wideband installed, calibrated and works as it is supposed to. I still have to figure out where I want to mount it.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Wideband is in its semipermanent spot now. It is visible when seated and with the steering wheel straight. It will get a re-install some day when I make the dash fancier.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Ok.... It begins. I finally decided to start making the template to cover the hole in the floor. After much thought, I decided that the cheapest and most effective way to make a pattern is to do 1/8th strips of hardboard (roughly $7 at box store) and hot glue (cheap as hell) to form a frame. I will then probably cover it with some cheap non stretch fabric to get the surface area. As long as the metal matches the surface area of the fabric, it will fit. I could cover my mold with tape to further enhance the fit but it may not be needed. There may be some work needed on my english wheel but not too much. 
Photos as usual.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

So my skeleton has now been transfered to poster board while it was still in the car. I then filled misc gaps with masking tape attached to the poster board and added tape to the sticky side to keep the taped areas rigid enough to transfer.

I then transfered the poster shape to big box store floor protector cardboard. It works well since it already retains a curved shape. After transferring it and fitting it on top of the skeleton, I removed the skeleton and placed the two pieces for fine tuning.

Once fine tuning is done, I am ready to final transfer to metal, one last fine tune and then cut the existing metal where needed followed by welding it in.

You can see in the photos that already the shape is very close to where it needs to be with nothing but a couple magnets keeping it from moving. Its relaxed shape is very close though.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

This is a better representation of the fit up. With a minor bit of weight applied it sits with a 1/16 gap almost all the way around. The few areas with a 1/8 gap will be fixed up with another round of double layer tape. Then the template is done.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Im switching between house work, working on my chopper, playing call of duty with my son and just had enough time (30 min) to cut the front metal and then after about 5 min on the english wheel it is pretty good for welding.

Im gonna take the first ride on my chopper of this year and work on the back part later. Were getting close though!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Decided a few beads were in order since I took out some supports.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Front tunnel half welded. Yes, my welds look crappy and yes, thats why my photos are so far away. I had to contort my old bones to weld everything. Everything is solid though.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

At this point, I am so tired of welding that I will just have to stop right here. Fortunately, no more wind breeze from my spinning driveshaft. I should have epoxied the damn panels before I welded them up. Now, I will probably have to remove the tranny to paint them. Stoopid!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Im going to get a posi. That is for sure. 

After driving this thing for a while, I am pondering what to do. The way it is now with 2.73 gears is okay but kind of too mellow. While it is cool to lug around at like 1400 rpm, it is not quite as exciting as I want. Now the issue is that if I decide to go boosted(yes, yes, yes), the 2.73 gears will definitely keep her drivable. With boost, this ratio will save a little rubber.

Now if I go 3.73 gears, it will be a beast with natural aspiration but as soon as I boost it, I will never be able to keep the tires from spinning. It would be quite fun though. 

So do I keep the mellow 2.73 gears preserving the mpg's and top speed (which I dont care about really) in preparation for much more power 

Or

Switch to 3.73 which will wake up the acceleration big time now and waste a little more gas but will devour the tires once boosted


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

ndm said:


> waste a little more gas but will devour the tires once boosted


We don't do this stuff to our cars to save money. 😉


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> We don't do this stuff to our cars to save money. 😉


True, but I am not trying to replace what will soon be very expensive tires. I plan to daily drive this sucker and I cannot give a whole lot of gas at all before it spins. With a posi and wider/better tires it will be better. With boost that will all go out the window. If I get a red light challenge I would prefer to be competitive rather than just make a smoke show every time. 2.73's and boost will be the best combo. 3.73 and NA are a better fit. 

The 6 speed gearing in this tranny gives much better off the line acceleration than a 4 speed or the old 3 speed.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Unfortunately the floor pans are too far gone. 30 seconds with a wire wheel revealed more holes. Looks like more sheetmetal work is coming.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

sean Buick 76 said:


> That is frustrating


Ah.... it is what it is. 

I took that frustration and channeled it into fixing something else. 
1. Got the rear view mirror re-mounted.
2. Modified the drive by wire van gas pedal to accept the factory buick pedal. Had to cut about an inch off of the factory pedal though since it hit the floor at the bottom. Now my pedals allow me to stretch my right leg out farther which helps my busted knee a little. The goofy brake pedal cover will be removed allowing for a near factory look.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Drivers side floor pan is made and ready to cut and weld in.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

On second thought, the passenger floor pans are not bad so I think they will just get sanded and re-primed. No sense messing with good metal.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Making my digital dash with Realdash and an old tablet. I like this one. 

Real dash is an awesome app and although it has a little tiny delay, it is more than sufficient for what I want to do with it. I was about to spend $600 on a powertune digital setup but had to really contemplate whether it is worth it for now. Until I need a 100% delay free setup, Real dash has damn near everything I need and can be customized very easily. I can also save the file to any cloud and share to any device that can run real dash. I have been using it on my phone and then shared it to my old tablet with dropbox. 

I will probably have two tablets in the car,the dash and a console tablet. I am considering a surface tablet.

I guess this begins the electronics phase of my build. Sweet


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

That's interesting.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

That's interesting.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

My temporary gauge solution. It charges the tablet while plugged in and overall is workable until I build a permanent solution. It is held in place with a simple aluminum bracket I bent up from a scrap sign. It is held to the bracket with my favorite carpet tape. I have been using this stuff for years to secure stuff. Half of my stuff was held to my lockers while on my many deployments overseas with this stuff.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

In one of the photos, you can see that I am going 75mph at 1777 rpm. In the other two you can see more of the real dash setup (with censored family photo of course).


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Metal is cut out and fits with almost no help. 
Ready to weld in.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

And now I am done welding. Plenty of grinding to do though. 
While the floor was open, I took the opportunity to change the shifter detent. Before I had PRNDM12. I dont need 1 and 2 so I moved to the outer hole making it easier to shift into gear. Niw I have PRNDM. The manual gear will be for when I add paddle shifters. 

Last but not least is the rear passenger foot wells. Yup, more holes so more sheet metal work. Those should be much easier since they are half the size and not complicated shapes. I will tackle those on my 2 extra days off next week.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

And after about an hour fifteen, rear passenger floor is welded in.
1.paper template
2.cut metal
3. Bead roll and english wheel a little
4. Screw to old metal
5. Cut with plasma cutter.
6.weld in.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Found two ford 8.8 posi units at the yard today. Now I just gotta get the stomach to go get them in the mud. One is a 4.10 unit, the other is the 3.73 that I want. I should be able to quickly get them with my cordless cutoff wheel, a few sockets and a sawzall. 
Cut the e brake cables, cut the brake lines before the rubber lines, cut the u bolts, remove the axle with drive shaft and cut or unbolt the driveshaft from the diff. 

If I buy both axles, I have the option if I ever want to to build a nasty tire burner setup. Maybe I sell the second one with a "removal fee". 

I might just get the one with the two wheels so I can drive it until I get the axles redrilled for gm 5x4.75 bolt pattern. 

Too bad it is supposed to snow tomorrow. That sucks.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Arrived at 1220. Left at 234. First unit 3.73 took about 50 min. Second 4.10 took 25 min. Hauling them to the front of the yard, paying and securing to the cargo carrier took the remaining 45 min. 
Tools used-
Makita cordless cutoff and 2 wheels
Rigid multitool with sawzall attachment
1 mini sabre blade and 1 sawzall blade
Makita beast mode impact gun
3/4 and 13/16 sockets
Pry bar
Hammer
Adjustable crescent wrench
2 makita batteries fully charged
1 rigid battery fully charged. 

That is it! I now own 2 ford 8.8 rear ends and will soon be executing amazing two wheel smoke shows!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

So. Things changed and I have a plan.
I realized that my buick axle is wider than normal at 60.5 inches. The 8.8 is 59.625 inches. If I narrow the axle like most do, I will be at 56.75 inches which will bring the rear tires inward by 1.875 inches per side. I already hate the 3 inch gap as it is so that wont work. I could use a spacer/adapter but I honestly dont trust those.

So after much deliberation I figured out what to do. First I thought, use two long tubes (opposite of what is the normal two short tubes) but then my track width in the rear is 2 inch wider than the front (61.5in) which I hear causes handling issues. So more thought.....

Eureka!
I already need to drill the axle for buick 5x4.75 bolt pattern. The jig for that it like $130 shipped. I already have to cut and weld the axle tube too. So what I have decided is rather than spending the $130 on a jig that I might screw up anyway, and chance using wheel adapters, I am going to get two new axles made by Strange engineering that are 1 inch shorter than the long 8.8 axle (30.5 down to 29.5 inches). Then I will shorten the longer axle tube by 1 inch and lengthen the short axle tube by 1.875 inches. This will make both tubes the same and both axles the same. The only difference is that the entire axle will be back to 60.5 inches just like factory.

For those that are confused, normal procedure is to narrow an 8.8 since the passenger side axle tube is 2.875 inches longer. This makes the u joint/axle off center by 2.875 inches hence the reason to shorten it. Then you take a second short axle from the junk yard and voila! You have a narrowed 8.8.

My case will essentially using two long tubes and axles but subtracting 1 inch from both dimensions in order to achieve the factory 60.5 inches rather than the 62.5 inch as a result of using two long axles. This option will cost me $360 for a new forged axle from strange eng. And I can have it within a week and pick it up local. *So realistically, I am spending only a couple hundo for new stronger axles with the correct bolt pattern already drilled.*

My only other option would be to go find a later model crown vic with a centered diff and is already 62.5 inch. I wont do that because only certain years came with 31 spline axles. Most were 28 spline.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

After a talk with someone I trust, I decided to just narrow the rear end as everyone else does and then use 2 inch adapters to change the bolt pattern to gm while also bringing the width back to factory. He says that as long as I use quality adapters that the bearing life will be better than my other plan. 

So, I stripped the 3.73 axle down, verified that the gears look great and spent a very long time grinding and wire brushing rust off. I then got the axle tube all set for the cuts. I was too tired to keep going so I stopped there. I guess tomorrow I may narrow the darned thing and get it over with. 

I have also decided that the best thing to do is to build an axle truss to add the upper 4 link bars since the explorer 8.8 does not come with ears like the gm 10 bolt. The axle truss will also add strength to the axle tubes. I got the design worked out and will soon build that.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

And after gathering nerve to do it, I successfully got the rear end narrowed. I got the tube to within 1/16th of the other one. I an damned happy too. I have a ton of work to do before I can use the rear end. I was going to sell the 4.10 axle but I think I may hang onto it just in case I decide to run the 4.10 gears one day. 

I am pooped from all the grinding though. More grinding to come.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

After re-measuring, I realize that my shortened axle tube is actually longer by....1/32 inch. Yeah, I would say mission accomplished!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

sean Buick 76 said:


> Good for you! Did you use a jig that hold things straight while welding?


I used the two c-channel method. That and a ton of measuring and adjusting. 

I got everything ready for welding the axle tubes to the diff. Its too late 1am or else I would fire up the tig and get cracking. 

I also got a quote in process for Bora 2 inch bora wheel adapters to bring the wheels back to the factory track width. 

And third thing is I got my wooden template made for the axle truss that I will build. Both sides will be mirror images of this template. I just need to decide what metal thickness I want to use. I have 1/2 here but it exceeds the clean cut capacity of my older hypertherm plasma cutter. I hate to have to cut with a grinder. My torch skills may just get tested for this one. I will have to drill the holes after I know where the upper 4 link brackets will be positioned. 

I am hopeful that I can get this axle installed within the next few weeks. I will then "burn off" the remainder of the excess rubber on these old tires in preparation for new rubber.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Axle tubes are now tig welded to the diff.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Now were getting somewhere! 
One 3/8in 4ft bar and one 1/4 in 12x12 plate of steel later and my axle truss is about 90% complete. Stopped working after I accidentally laid my bare arm down on the truss while trying to finish the last weld. Burned the crap out of my arm and pissed me off.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Looks better than your arm probably does.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> Looks better than your arm probably does.


Lol. 

Btw, I think you are the only only still watching my thread. Thanks for watching.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

ndm said:


> Lol.
> 
> Btw, I think you are the only only still watching my thread. Thanks for watching.


Not true. I’m paying attention as I’m sure others are. Not my thing necessarily but cool to see. And that truss axle is probably super strong. Nice!


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

This is out of a lot of people's wheel house.


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

Theslaking said:


> This is out of a lot of people's wheel house.


Count me as one of those people...really enjoying the progress on this. I find car builds fascinating.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

dgage said:


> Not true. I’m paying attention as I’m sure others are. Not my thing necessarily but cool to see. And that truss axle is probably super strong. Nice!





Theslaking said:


> This is out of a lot of people's wheel house.





mfenske said:


> Count me as one of those people...really enjoying the progress on this. I find car builds fascinating.


No worries. This thread is for me to document the whole process with this car and trust me, we will be coming back in everyones wheelhouse very soon. Strong car first then strong audio!

Consider it a long term build.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

So, the progress on the 8.8 swap is slow because of the careful planning necessary to fit ford parts into a GM car while also having the complication of swapping a leaf spring axle with disc brakes into a coil spring car with drums and factory cast in ears for a 4 link. Add the change from 5x4.5 lug pattern to 5x4.75 pattern.

That said... I have the parts on the way to tackle the lug pattern change. Most folks would have just used adapters/spacers but I could not find anyone with quality adapters in stock. I did not want to wait a month so I went a different route. I ordered a jig to allow me to drill my own ford axles for the GM pattern and then I ordered two sets of GM spacers. I got both 1.5 inch and 2 inch since they had some scratched 2 inch ones at half price. The spacers ate T6061 aluminum and are hubcentric. If I had just used adapters, I would have had to wait up to a month to have them made. I cannot do that. So by next week I will have ford axles drilled to GM spec and adapters to bring the wheel back out to the corrected width.









1.5


This Wheel Spacer Kit Comes with Everything Needed for a Full Installation! Specifications Vehicle Bolt Pattern: 5x4.75 Wheel Bolt Pattern: 5x4.75 Hub Bore: 70.5mm Thread Pitch: 12x1.5 Thickness: Each Spacer Measures 1.5" inch Thick Vehicle Fitments THESE SPACERS WILL BOLT UP TO THE F




www.titanwheelaccessories.com













Drill Guide - Hells Gate Hot Rods


Wheel Bolt/Lug Drill Guides allow you to drill out your axle and drum to a different bolt pattern. No need to purchase new axles to just change bolt/lug pattern.




www.hellsgatehotrods.com





Next up is getting the new upper ears fabricated on the ford 8.8. I am going to be ordering parts to weld to my new axle that will not only allow me to temporarily use my factory control arms but will also be compatible with new control arms that I will be fabricating. I am debating between a few styles of roto joints that will eliminate any binding of the axle inherent to rubber bushings. I am essentially future proofing the suspension in case I decide to do autocross or something. You must have a rearend that is free to rotate and is nimble.

Last but not least. I fabricated a couple gussets for the axle to further help this thing be super strong and will be welding them in tonight. I king of like the angled orientation so I think that is what I will go with.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

And after 15 min of fitting and welding, the gussets are complete.


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## TwinkE (Aug 13, 2020)

Just wanted to say I've been lurking on this thread, enjoying all the work you're putting into it.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

I’m a little torn though. I’m not sure those axles have been beefed up enough. You might need to consider more gusseting. Maybe your gussets need gussets. Lol!  I love overkill.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

TwinkE said:


> Just wanted to say I've been lurking on this thread, enjoying all the work you're putting into it.


Thank you Glad you are enjoying



dgage said:


> I’m a little torn though. I’m not sure those axles have been beefed up enough. You might need to consider more gusseting. Maybe your gussets need gussets. Lol!  I love overkill.


Lady Overkill.... I love that sexy lady. Overkill is the nectar of fabrication! Honestly, I just found a kit online that used a 3/16 vertical and 1/2 top plate and decided that since my plasma cutter could cut 1/4 inch plate....it SHOULD cut 1/4 inch. The gussets are just to make me feel like I am safe to put down the kind of power that I plan to eventually put down. The kit that I copied is said to have been good up to 1500hp so I think I am good. I am actually not done beefing it up yet either! I am fortifying the axle tube where the coil spring pad is. It will go over the weld from narrowing the axle. 

So be prepared for more of Lady Overkill.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

So peeved! What the hell is the purpose of paying for quick shipping if the product is not shipped out until 4 days later. I even called to make sure it was in stock. 

I would have been able to redrill the axle this weekend and put the wheel spacers on with wheels to test fit but the damn drill kit was shipped out 4 days after I ordered it. I have everything else though.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

It's like advertising prime 2 day shipping and the fine print says everything prime isn't fast shipped.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> It's like advertising prime 2 day shipping and the fine print says everything prime isn't fast shipped.


Absolutely!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I think I have decided what wheel and configuration I an going with. My original wheel choice was Way too much $$$ and not available in 5x4.75. After looking all around, I found a wheel that looks like the factory wheel but is bigger and billet. I am going to try to go with 20x10 wheels all round. with the 5.5 backspace, I will have to make sure the additional 1 inch on the inside of the front wheels will not rub. The good news is that the annoying 3 inch front and 4 inch fender gaps will be cut down to 1 inch front and 2 inch rear. I will then select the widest tire that will fit on the front and rear. I am not a fan of the stretched tire look so I am hoping to get at least an 11inch wide tire on the 10 inch wide wheel. that way I will have a little protection for the wheels and get that look of the old matchbox cars when I was a kid. I am 100% going with white lettering on the tires. The kits are not that expensive and I have loved that look since I was a kid.

I may go with the polished version of the wheel and spray satin ceracoat black to make it look more like the factory wheel. I already have the ceramic black from when I ceramic coated the headers. I may choose a gloss black too. That would look killer.
*Billet Specialties AC39025 - Billet Specialties Legends Series Speedway Titanium Wheels with Polished Lip















*


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

And in other news... I have received my axle drill kit so I went out and bought the conversion u joint, 1/2in lugs and lugnuts. Also pictured are the 2inch and 1.5inch spacers that came in.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Exciting!!
I have finally figured out what I want to do about rear control arm ears that exist on the GM 10 bolt rear but not on the explorer rear. I have just purchased a couple of weld in Johnnie joints that are the same dimensions as the factory GM bushing. This will allow me to utilize my factory control arms for now. The plan is to replace my factory control arms eventually with fabricated adjustable control arms but for now, I do not feel like dropping the $500 that I will need in parts to do the job. I want that new rear end in NOW and do not want to wait any more time than needed. This will help me in a few ways.
- First, I can take my time picking out the exact parts for the final config. Hell, I have been looking at detroit speed control arms and I really like their design.I may choose to buy those instead. 
-Second, this will have added freedom of movement with the rear end as it is. 
-Third, I only have to spend the $124 for the parts with 2nd day shipping in order to get this thing going instead of over $500 plus more time.

So once the new bushings are here, I will make some simple gussets and weld to the bushings which will then be positioned on top of the rear end with the pinion set to where it needs to be. Once the axle is positioned correctly and the pinion is set, I will tack weld and then full weld them in. 

So what will be the added benefit? by raising the rear control arm mounting points by about 2 inches, I will get improved instant center. This should greatly improve the traction by forcing the tires to plant down instead of raising up (squatting). The added benefit is all about the traction! It should make my rear end look pretty fancy too with more gussets. LOL!

here is a photo of the johnny joint.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

After staying up far too late, I was able to accomplish two more milestones. I removed the 2nd short driveshaft from the 4.10 axle and successfully drilled 1 axle and rotor together. Tomorrow I will drill the other set and remove all old studs before pressing in the new studs. At that point, the axles can be re-installed and I can start re-assembling the axle. At some point in time I have to degrease and paint though. Probably once the upper control arm mounts are welded on.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Got tired and decided to take a drive instead of doing a bunch of work. I did get my new lugs pressed into one of the axles though.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Both axles are drilled and I decided not to drill another rotor. Since the rotor gets centered by way of its very tight fit on the center bore, I decided that the simplest method to get the rotor holes to fit the new lug pattern is to drill them bigger. It takes just a couple min to drill each rotor oversized using a step drill bit. This way, I will be able to just buy rotors for a 2001 explorer, drill them out and install very quickly.

I mounted a complete axle with the spacer and everything fits super snug with no issues. 

My Johnnie joints came in too. I am now ready to start getting this thing painted and in the car. I need one more $4 adapter for the brake lines but everything else is good to go


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Welded the two johnnie joints to some 3/8th straps. The plan is to cut them to the same angles as factory gm diff ears but I wont know the angle until I remove the gm 10 bolt. I just do not know what exact position that I want to put them in so right now (top or front of the diff) so I am not yet going to cut them


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I got the rear end off my wheel cribs and did a little visualization to see how she will fit. It is looking pretty good. 

I took some measurements that I will need in order to make new control arms too. 

Hopefully i can get this thing sorted this weekend. I will have to correct a backed up sewer line that I found just at the right time today. Yuck! So foul. I an glad I went to the basement to look for at tool. Only made about a 4 foot circle of backup. Could have been so much worse.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

sean Buick 76 said:


> That’s going to look awesome!


Yeah, I gotta get this thing in. I am getting restless about it.

The poopy problem is fixed now so I can get back to the car. I plan to tack weld a bracket to the frame with a V in it to position the axle in the same fore and aft orientation. Then I will rotate the axle for the correct pinion angle. Then weld the control arm mounts.

Once the rear is in and working correctly, I will fab the adjustable arms for future ride height adjustments. All this should get me more torque, better handling and the ability to put the power down to the street. Once I get enough traction that dry burn outs become difficult.....I will increase the power, rinse and repeat!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I took a break to convert my harbor freight pressure blast pot to either be a pressure blaster or regular siphon feed blaster. I built a metering valve that can be turned off when using it as a pressure pot. 

Then......

I built a vac blaster kit for it. If you have ever sand blasted, it is a freaking mess! I want to blast the interior but it would get sand everywhere. Well not any more. I built the vac blaster with about $20 worth of parts. Technically, it was $60 but that is because I bought a $40 Rigid car detailing kit just for the flexible hose. If you already have the hose or the smaller vac hose, it will cost $20 or less.

So now I can get started blasting the floors in the car in preparation for epoxy primer! I am so happy to get this thing done.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Max Damage said:


> Cool! I love this idea. Let us know how it works...


It works very very well! So well that a youtube video is coming very soon. Until then, here is less than 3 min of blasting.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Max Damage said:


> Cool! I love this idea. Let us know how it works...


Here you go. Video is up.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Fabbed 4 identical lower control arm brackets. 
I gave it 5 adjustment holes for good measure. Next I gotta figure out the shock mounts.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Made some axle positioning brackets. You put the vehicle in the air with wheels removed and jack stands under the old axle. Screw, bolt or tack weld the bracket vertically on the outside of the frame rail ensuring that it is bottomed out on the top of the axle (I am using 4 self tappers). Once both sides are done, you can remove the old axle. Then you raise the new axle until it bottoms out on the upside down V. If it is bottomed out. Then it is positioned correctly. Be sure that it is centered between the frame rails.

You then rotate the axle to set the pinion angle. Now tack weld your brackets without messing up the perfect position.

Once you have all the brackets tacked. Lower the axle. Weld the brackets completely and paint the axle before reinstalling.


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## rmenergy (Feb 15, 2009)

Cool build. Curious as to why you chose to stick with a 4 link instead of a 3 link with either a watts link/panhard bar & torque arm? Not criticizing, just curious. When I still had my '66 Mustang I went with the 3 link after much deliberation.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Found a sleeve of sorts in my basement that fits the vac tube. I hot glued it into my pvc vac attachment and now I dont need to tape the vac hose anymore.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I did alot today to prepare for the new axle install.

Updated the vac blaster to be a pressure pot blaster which makes it twice as fast/efficient at stripping rust or coatings. I did 3 trigger pull tests. 1, 2 and 3 seconds and wow is it fast.








Modified my axle brackets because I realized that they are angled at the axle which would not have worked with the tight fitting tolerances. Now I can rotate them up to 15 degrees.








Installed my axle positioning brackets which should make installing and positioning the new axle a breeze.






















Made a plasma cutter circle jig so I can make the spring platforms. I broke my bit so I had to stop at 13 inch capacity. I have all the holes center punched to 44 inch capacity though. I will drill the rest later as I need them.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Spring pads tacked on.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Conversion u joint install is 1/2 way complete


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

4 bolts and 2 brake line nuts is all that is between me and the complete removal of the old 10 bolt. Shocks, springs and emergency brakes are disconnected.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

*And there we go! Out with the old, in with the new. I will set the pinion tomorrow, weld in the brackets and remove it again for paint. Wednesday we should be rolling with positraction, 3.73 gears and rear disc brakes!










































*


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well, today did not go as planned but for good reasons. 
First, I attended a 21 gun salute memorial for my uncle. That took all morning. 
Second, I visited a friend of the family that is fighting colon and liver cancer. That was another few hours. 

That said, I did manage to get some major things accomplished. 

I made some spacers for my tranny crossmember. I never liked the angle that my motor sat so that is now fixed. I had to take a powerful rivet gun to beat the hell out of the areas of the tunnel that would need more driveshaft clearance. I accidentally tore the metal using the beast but that can be fixed.
I set the pinion angle perfectly matched to the tranny and centered the axle within a 1/16 tolerance. This allowed me to cut my pre-made upper brackets to size. I then tacked the upper and lower brackets perfectly symmetrically. 
I took the axle back out and did 80% of the welding before it got dark and after I got tired. 
Tomorrow, I will make the shock mounts and gussets where needed. Hopefully I can get the axle painted too. I am gonna get lots of sleep so I can hit it hard. 

Can anyone spot my little mistake that will have to be accepted?


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## rmenergy (Feb 15, 2009)

ndm said:


> Well, today did not go as planned but for good reasons.
> First, I attended a 21 gun salute memorial for my uncle. That took all morning.
> Second, I visited a friend of the family that is fighting colon and liver cancer. That was another few hours.
> 
> ...


You didn't mirror your upper control arm bushing weld-on mounting tabs? Large tab to the outside on both but driver side has large tab on the inside.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Moving to phase 2 of this axle. I am going to blast and paint with either epoxy or chassis saver. I also fixed my screwup mentioned in the previous post. Did anyone ever find out what it was?


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## rmenergy (Feb 15, 2009)

Must have me on ignore lol


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Used Chassis saver after much debate. I chose it because it works, it is rugged enough and mostly because I can apply it with a brush. If rust ever pops through, I will spot blast and reapply the coating. 

I did however break the #1 rule of using coatings like these. That mistake forced me to have to exfoliate my skin with 80 grit sand paper. Always use gloves with these coatings. They absolutely do not wash off. The only way that I know of to remove from skin is sanding it off.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Over POR 15?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

rmenergy said:


> Must have me on ignore lol





rmenergy said:


> You didn't mirror your upper control arm bushing weld-on mounting tabs? Large tab to the outside on both but driver side has large tab on the inside.


Winner winner chicken dinner! All the measurements that I did and still managed to screw that up. I made an extension to fix it though. 

I must have missed your post. You got it right though!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> Over POR 15?


Chassis saver vs epoxy primer. Chassis saver and por15 are basically the same but I have had much better luck with chassis saver. Por15 is like the bondi brand of resin vs Us composites resin. For me, there is no contest. 

Epoxy would have been the best choice but I did not feel like mixing it and there is much more prep involved. The sheetmetal is getting epoxy. The thick ass metal axle components are not gonna rust through for like 100 years if that.


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## rmenergy (Feb 15, 2009)

ndm said:


> Winner winner chicken dinner! All the measurements that I did and still managed to screw that up. I made an extension to fix it though.
> 
> I must have missed your post. You got it right though!


I had asked a question as to your reasoning behind the 4 link over a 3 link setup earlier. Curious as to your thought process here. Not stating I disagree with the decision btw, just curious.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

rmenergy said:


> I had asked a question as to your reasoning behind the 4 link over a 3 link setup earlier. Curious as to your thought process here. Not stating I disagree with the decision btw, just curious.


Well that is easy. It is the factory setup. I am simply making the new rear end work with the original setup bit with modified instant center and better ability to plant the rearend. 

For now I am using the factory control arms until I make new tubular arms with johnnie joints all around.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well, I did not accomplish my goal as planned but I am pretty much done. 
I adapted the brake lines to the rear end with the factory gm rubber line. 

All that is left is-

 bolt the rear in
bleed the brakes
Install the axles
fill the differential
swap the driveshaft u joint
install the driveshaft
Put the rotors, calipers and pads on 
Bolt on the wheels with adapters
Re-program ecu/tcm for the new gear ratio
LET HER RIP!!!


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## rmenergy (Feb 15, 2009)

ndm said:


> Well that is easy. It is the factory setup. I am simply making the new rear end work with the original setup bit with modified instant center and better ability to plant the rearend.
> 
> For now I am using the factory control arms until I make new tubular arms with johnnie joints all around.


Makes sense. I had a 66 Mustang years ago & when updating from the leaf spring setup debated both 3 & 4 link designs. Ended up with a 3 link with torque arm & watts link(should have opted for a panhard bar so the exhaust could exit from the rear but was too late). Anyway, been enjoying the build, fine job.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

rmenergy said:


> Makes sense. I had a 66 Mustang years ago & when updating from the leaf spring setup debated both 3 & 4 link designs. Ended up with a 3 link with torque arm & watts link(should have opted for a panhard bar so the exhaust could exit from the rear but was too late). Anyway, been enjoying the build, fine job.


I am glad that you are enjoying!

I will say though, my past air suspension builds have all been triangulated 4 links. I prefer that design. It is simple and symetrical. I think watts links are too complicated. Not a fan of panhard setups either.


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## rmenergy (Feb 15, 2009)

ndm said:


> I am glad that you are enjoying!
> 
> I will say though, my past air suspension builds have all been triangulated 4 links. I prefer that design. It is simple and symetrical. I think watts links are too complicated. Not a fan of panhard setups either.


I’m more of a coastal mountain road & track day guy than drag strip hence the 3 link. To each. Keep up the nice build


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

rmenergy said:


> I’m more of a coastal mountain road & track day guy than drag strip hence the 3 link. To each. Keep up the nice build


😰😥😢😭I wish I lived by the coast or by mountains.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

For the record, Anyone that is wondering why I did not blast and paint the rusty brake brackets and calipers, I am planning to replace all of it with new stuff. For now, there is no sense in refinishing the parts. I just want to use up the stuff that came with the axle since it was in what looked to be good condition. One set of pads looked pretty new

*EDIT__ After typing this last post, I felt bad about the unsightly rust so I went out and just sprayed some VHT ceramic black paint that I will never use on the rust. This way it does not stick out like a sore thumb.















*


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Note to self, Next time you sandblast axle parts, Be sure that your axle tubes seals are still in place. 

Looks like I am replacing my axle bearings due to grit in the bearings. Damnit!!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

So tonight was super aggravating. First, I had to find the axle bearings and seals. Autozone, nope. Oreillys, nope. Napa, nope. Advanced auto, we only have one but the warehouse....blah blah. 

So 15 min to the bigger store/warehouse. Got the parts. 20 min back home. So I decide that it would be better to install with the axle bolted in. Well I have to get the driveshaft second u joint half installed in the flange. 

I go to install it and immediately realized that the custom driveshaft does not have a 1310 ujoint. I had bought a 1330 to 1310 u joint for this occasion. Well I need a 1330 to 1330. Damn. 

So back to advance auto with my part number. The store closest to me of course does not have it. So another 15 min to the bigger store. Got the part and 20 min home. I got some food that my wife made me and get to installing the joint. Hammer, hammer, hammer then started to get the second half when ....Oh crap! This part looks exactly like the one I took out. 1310 to 1330. Damn, between the google search and the advanced auto website, the number got changed. Sooooo....
I call advanced auto, they have the correct part but he says, you need to get here before we close. Now get this, it is 8:47pm. If you can do math and were following earlier, you will realize that I will be going to bed pissed off because I live 20 min from a store that has my part but closes in 13 min.

Adding injury to insult, I close the garage and walk into the house only to hear my wife tell me that the freezer is broken and all the food is thawing. Im like. "Really?!?! Wtf?"


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## rmenergy (Feb 15, 2009)

ndm said:


> So tonight was super aggravating. First, I had to find the axle bearings and seals. Autozone, nope. Oreillys, nope. Napa, nope. Advanced auto, we only have one but the warehouse....blah blah.
> 
> So 15 min to the bigger store/warehouse. Got the parts. 20 min back home. So I decide that it would be better to install with the axle bolted in. Well I have to get the driveshaft second u joint half installed in the flange.
> 
> ...


Those days suck man. I’ve been putting off changing the front axle seals in my sons bronco as I’ve been dreading the job.

Hopefully it’s an easy & smooth Friday for you.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Continued.....

So I wake up and get on the road to Advanced Auto. I get there as they open at 0730. I dial into my first conference call of the day and simultaneously exchange the U joint for the correct one. I get back into the Jeep and get home at 0748. I grab my tools and at 0802 the job is complete. All while still on a conf call.


Sucks that I spent a few hours running around for a part that I installed in less than 4 minutes.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

bolt the rear in
bleed the brakes
Install the axles
fill the differential
install the driveshaft
Put the rotors, calipers and pads on
Bolt on the wheels with adapters
LET HER RIP!!!

Completed-

swap the driveshaft u joint-
Re-program ecu/tcm for the new gear ratio


----------



## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

bolt the rear in
bleed the brakes
fill the differential
install the driveshaft
Put the rotors, calipers and pads on
Bolt on the wheels with adapters
LET HER RIP!!!

Completed-

swap the driveshaft u joint-
Re-program ecu/tcm for the new gear ratio
Install the axles
Install new axle bearings and seals


----------



## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I found a little bit of an issue that I am about to go to the store to find a part to solve it. I guess my shock mount angle is not correct. I thInk I willl just buy or make a U bracket and bolt it to the shoch mount location as it exists.

bleed the brakes
fill the differential
Bolt on the wheels with adapters
LET HER RIP!!!

Completed-

swap the driveshaft u joint-
Re-program ecu/tcm for the new gear ratio
Install the axles
Install new axle bearings and seal
bolt the rear in
install the driveshaft
Put the rotors, calipers and pads on


----------



## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well the good news is that there is only one thing left. The bad news is that it is bleeding the brakes. I made a quick attempt but nothing came out. It was kind of baffling. I know all about the portioning valve nonsense. I have not hit the brakes since they got disconnected so it cant be tripped. The lines are all new so it cant be clogged. I may be replacing the calipers. I will make another attempt to bleed in the morning. 

I was too tired to keep trying today. Temps were above 90 most of the day and I was under the car from about 10AM til 7:45 and am just too tired to keep at it. 

Hopefully tomorrow I will be driving.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well, there is good news and there is bad news.

Good-
8.8 is in and I drove it a couple times around the block. Brakes work and there is a notable increase in acceleration.

Bad-
I noticed something that I new was going to be problematic. Due to the fact that my new axle is about 3 inches narrower than the factory, this puts my calipers 2inches directly under the frame. This is a problem because...well that means 2 inches of suspension travel. Needless to say, this aint gonna work.

The fix-
I will be forced to drain the diff, pull the axles again, unbolt the bracket that holds the calipers to the axle tube and flip them 180 degrees. This will put the calipers in the 8oclock position vs the 2oclock position. This should work to remedy the situation.

That said, as I reflect back, I wish I had widened the axle vs narrowing it. Here is why.
The factory axle was 60.5in wide. Widening the 8.8 would have been62.5 in wide. That is 1 inch wider each side. This would have allowed me to run a 1 inch spacer on the front wheels with longer studs. Each wheel would have been 1 inch closer to the fender. I would have loved the wider stance. 

While my solution will work, I honestly wish I had just widened the axle instead. Oh well. Disappointing but now all is lost. I will probly wait to correct this as I am tired of working on it for now.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

And as it goes for people like me (ADHD and OCD), O could not just let it go. So. I got my arse under the car and busted the diff open, removed the axles, and flipped the calipers. I am curing the diff sealant for the required hour before I go out and tighten fully. 

I think I will have to replace one of the brake hoses again because it is leaking. I think the contact with the frame damaged it. No worries there. That will be a quick swap. 

Tomorrow I will fill the diff, reinstall the springs, fix the hose and re-bleed the brakes. I should then be back on the road to do the second shakedown. 

Wish me luck!


----------



## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Now thats what the F I'm talkin bout!

First two wheel peel!


----------



## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

So, I have done a few shakedown drives and a few things are very apparent. 

I need new shocks (which I already knew)
I need to build the new control arms
I most definitely need a new portioning valve or simple metering valve for disc/disc brakes
I made a good choice with the 3.73 gears over the 4.10 gears
Lastly but very important, it is time for some wide tires. 
I can safely say that at the moment, this ain't a wet pavement car. Giving it a third gear burst while rolling, it will break the tires loose. It no longer just lugs around. It seems to stay in a lower gear that before. It is like the car is ready to go. The old 2.73 gears were good for calm driving. The new 3.73 gears seem just perfect. 

I am going to take a few days to rest and then get back at it. I am just glad that it is up and running again.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I took a 20 min break from work to get a shakedown drive in on dry pavement and I can say for certain that this thing is mean! So mean that apparently a mint 69 convertible driver followed me for a while to tell me so. He guessed 1977 and I told him 76. He called it a definite sleeper. I gave he and his 3 passengers a red light rip and they were all smiles. It is so calm during cruising but has a nasty roar to it with some pedal action. 

The car does not seem to want to go into 6th gear as it used to when cruising. It keeps itself in 5th and drops to 4th for rolling rips. While I do like that it stays at the ready, I do want to make sure my tranny tune will let it go into 6th at some point. Eventually I will want to highway cruise it in 6th.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Alright, I had a little break after the rear end install. It is super muggy around here and I had not wanted to be working in mid 90 degree weather.
It is time to move on to the next major project. Getting the interior ready for epoxy. So with my newly built vac blaster, I am going to start blasting the interior floors. I do not think it will take that long but who knows. Once blasted, it will be primered with SPI epoxy primer and then seam sealed. Over that will be lizard skin spray on deadener then lizard skin ceramic heat treatment. This car gets super hot from the floors. I am attempting to try to control that heat. 

After the Lizard skin, I am tempted to use more knu kolossus deadener that I already have. Then the car will receive closed cell foam, mass loaded vinyl and then carpet. 

Once that is complete, I will start working on the seat design. I am thinking of hitting the junk yard to find some seats with all electronic adjustments. These old seats dont have enough adjustment. I would love to get seats like my SRT Jeep. They are very comfy and hug your body well. Maybe some challenger seats might work better though since they are 2 door and should tilt forward for rear passenger access.

Stay tuned!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I began blasting the floors today and quickly realized that the rear passenger floor needed replacement. So I quickly cut up a pattern, cut out some 18ga, bead rolled it and welded it in. 
Hopefully the front passenger side is in better condition. 

It was hotttt today and I am now going to shower the funk off my butt. I stink to holy hell. I basically sweat through my clothing completely. Once you are completely drenched in sweat it is not so bad. At least that is what I learned from my repeated deployments to the middle east. Just let it happen. LOL!


----------



## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Last night I tackled an annoying project that was bugging me. I moved the obd2 port to the glove box. Now the cable for the tuning software is not "just long enough".

Today I decided to DA sand the pass front floorboard. I think this will be my go-to procedure from now on. 

Contour SCT tool
DA 
Sandblast the crevices
Now I have shiny metal that I believe will not need to be replaced. That makes me happy. 
It was good to not have to sweat my nads off since it was only 80 degrees. 

Anyways, I will keep at it until it is good enough for primer.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

SPI Epoxy is awesome.

I used foil backed bubble wrap as a radiant barrier on my Silverado and it worked great. It took my transmission hump from to hot to touch to barely warm. I foil taped all the seams. Cost me like 40 bucks and it's super easy to install.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> SPI Epoxy is awesome.
> 
> I used foil backed bubble wrap as a radiant barrier on my Silverado and it worked great. It took my transmission hump from to hot to touch to barely warm. I foil taped all the seams. Cost me like 40 bucks and it's super easy to install.


Yes. SPI is the shiznit! Barry, the owner is amazing. He actually answers texts from customers. The product is absolutely fantastic too. Best epoxy primer that I have sprayed. 

For anyone that has never heard of Spi....you need to look them up. Made in the USA and amazing products.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

The more I blast, the more metal I shape. Holes suck!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Welded in


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Thank you to the nice officer lady that was totally understanding of my...."tire screeching" and gave me a warning although I deserved much more for the smoke show that I left. I really appreciate the warning!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I am currently in a battle with the atmosphere. Every time I blast or sand exposing bare metal, I come back a couple hours later to find flash rust. I cannot primer over it so I end up having to remove it again. I will have to switch up my strategy. I am going to have to spray my epoxy in sections. There is just too much humidity right now. I really wanted to blast the whole floor and spray the whole floor but that just is not going to work. 

The other delay is back pain. I woke up the day after fathers day with sharp back pain and have been miserable ever since.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

We are having low humidity so I blasted and sanded the pass side again in prep for epoxy in the morning. Hope all goes well.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I got the back zapper on full blast and got 3/4 of the floor primed. Finally!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

First round of blasting followed by wire brushing on most of the remaining floor is complete. I will resume with another blast, wire brush then clean up before welding up a few holes and then prep and epoxy.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Finally! Wore me out finishing the floor in 91+ degree weather. I got the floor done though. Just in time. I have to go back to work tomorrow. I have a good deal of dust in the primer but you wont see it under the carpet.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Looks good.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> Looks good.


Thank you


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

It is time for a pause. I am going to take a little break from the car to attend to some family matters. Specifically, a death in the family. My cousin played the Covid game and lost. Without getting into the politics of it all, he should have gotten the vax. Now his 3 children will go without a father. We are very sad but this was predictable and preventable. We will be travelling to attend his services. 

Second reason for the pause is to stack up more cash to do more mods. I have been aggressively paying off some stuff and I now will have to let the bank account rebound a little. I will be hitting it hard once I get back into it though. Trust me, This will not be one of those pauses where the build goes dead forever...OH no. That is not my style. I have plenty of supplies to allow me to work on stuff while I am building the funds back up. I am just gonna lift off the throttle for a couple weeks. 

The great news is that I have now paid off one of my vehicles and that means more $$$ for mods!!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Sorry for your loss, and I pray that you will all get through this.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> Sorry for your loss, and I pray that you will all get through this.


Thank you. The 3 highschool/junior highschool kids will need the prayers that is for sure.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

A minor but major item was accomplished yesterday. I was cleaning my garage a little since it is a mess when I had to move the old axle to side of the house bone yard and out of the view of my wife. I passed my other 1976 Regal and saw the white seat that I was never able to get out of the car due to rusted bolts. I realized that I had bought a battery powered beast of a impact gun that is simply amazing at whacking bolts off or breaking them if they do not want to budge. So I hooked my battery pack up the the car to move the electric seats for access and proceeded in whacking 3 of the fasteners off and stripping one bolt head from improper tool alignment. That nut was then knocked off with a grinder.

YAY!!! finally I will be able to install the nicer bucket white seat in the drivers spot. Then the rain started to pour and I was not able to get to the passenger side. It should go the same way though. The seats have busted seams but are in way better condition than the ugly tan split bench seat.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Ok. A little minor progress happened.

First, I mounted up the white seat in the car and it is super comfy. I just wanted to drive it again.

Second, I installed a grommet in the big open hole in the firewall and then used duct seal to completely plug the hole from hot air escaping into the cabin. There was a little change but not nearly enough.

Third. I ordered my lizard skin sound control, ceramic and the spray gun for it. Theres a crapload of heat coming from the floor and I have to reduce the temp alot by whatever means before any of my family can ride in there. The lizardskin products have great reviews so I am optimistic. I would like to get the interior comfortable before putting in the carpet.

Eventually I plan to take the entire 304 stainless exhausf out and ceramic coat it. That should reduce even more heat. The headers are already ceracoated and it is holding up extremely well.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Got some stuff done.
I removed the factory console from Granny's Regal to begin prepping for install into the working Regal. This floor shifter is one of the most stand out features of the car and therefore just HAS to go into the car. It is an old horseshoe shifter.

I also received the lizardskin ceramic. I thought I was ordering white but apparently ordered black. No worries though. It is paintable.

I may spray the sound deadener tomorrow if it comes in early enough. It has to cure for 24 hours before spraying the ceramic. Since it is really humid I will probably go for 48 hours though.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

*OH NO!!! It is happening again!
My brain is on overload due to a Eureka moment. This one involves Car Audio matters and is now occupying my brain with all the possibilities. Let me explain. *

My absolute favorite subwoofer of all time is the JBL W15GTImkii and I have 5 of them. Two are in my SRT Jeep and 3 have been lurking in my basement. 
So I have been struggling to figure out how exactly I will be able to install the sub or subs in the Regal without the dreaded "WANG< WANG< WANG" trunk rattle that I hear so many older cars driving around. I think it sounds terrible. I like Crystal clear sound quality type audio but at higher levels (SQL). So the only option was to totally isolate the front wave of the sub from ever reaching the trunk. That would be easy if this was a modern car with flip down seats. Not so much with this old gal. Not only do I have only about 12inches in height at the rear seat in the trunk, but realistically, it is only 9 inches due to one of the rear seat hangers. So for a long time I have contemplated how the hell I am going to fit the sub in there and accomplish my goal. 

*EUREKA!!*

I was playing around with a 15 inch cutout that I had laying around and decided to put it in the back to see where I can fit the sub and realized that....Ummm Hello, I am a metal shaper, and DUH, I am doing the upholstery custom anyway. So what I am thinking is that I am going to break out the old welder and cutting tools to do one more modification to the metal on this thing. Some of the inspiration for the idea comes from the cutouts for emblems in some 60's cars like the 64 Impala photo attached. The only difference is that I will hide the sub behind a grill that will be built into the back seat or some kind of rear seat console like many hotrod guys do these days. 

So plainly put- I am most likely going to be cutting a big old honking hole in the rear seat metal, metal shaping new metal to weld back in with reinforcement and installing a wicked 15 inch sound quality subwoofer in either sealed or ported configuration with no trunk rattle. Use your imagination to understand where I am going here. For anyone has doubt that the metalworking part is within my skillset, Please refer to my previous posts. I am proficient at making metal do what I tell it to do. Photos will be uploaded in a few.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)




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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

You can always og infinite baffle.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> You can always og infinite baffle.


Yes but that would definitely negate my " No rattle" clausd.

Truth be told, I may in fact try IB first but this sub is known to be amazing with a large ported enclosure tuned really low.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

My trunk moves a lot less IB vs the old ported box.

I don't know the pressure difference but it's noticable.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Another example of what the final product will be similar to. I did a sub in a buddy's Pontiac G8 years ago.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> My trunk moves a lot less IB vs the old ported box.
> 
> I don't know the pressure difference but it's noticable.


But in my case, the port and sub would fire directly into the cabin so no pressure at all if I accomplish my goal


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I have been busy with other stuff but I did take the time yesterday to accomplish another task. I have been struggling to get the passenger seat out of Granny's car for a while now. The floors are just so rusted that the fasteners were locked into place. I usually use a torch to heat up the fasteners but this one is surrounded by plastic and old carpet. I did not want to start the stuff on fire and I did not want to melt the plastic. I finally decided to just do it. I used my makita "thumper" impact gun after I heated the bolt carefully and doused it quickly with penetrant. It did not budge. SO I hit it with a breaker bar and it finally cracked. I turned it a little more and then used the thumper to finish it off. The rest of the bolts came off pretty easily or took the surrounding metal with them. So now I have all the white seats ready to go in. 

This weekend I plan to finally scuff up the new epoxy in order to spray the Lizard skin deadener followed by the ceramic. Once complete, I can finally start getting carpet back into the car. Iwould like to get the car to the point that the family can take a drive with me without the crazy heat coming up through the floor.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Max Damage said:


> Any chance of adding some insulation between the exhaust/headers and the floor? I mean outside the passenger compartment?


In the winter, I am going to pull the motor/trans and then blast, sand and paint the underside of the floor. I will then add another layer of the lizard skin deadening and ceramic. I should not need more than that.

There will also be other layers of stuff under the carpet helping the issue. from the underside of the car it will be in these layers. I should not have any issue once I am done.
-interior
carpet
foam
MLV (Mass loaded vinyl)
foam
lizard skin-ceramic
Lizardskin-deadening
primer
metal
primer
paint
Lizardskin-deadener
Lizardskin-ceramic
__Possible Raptor liner----


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## bills72sj (Jun 1, 2021)

I am new to the forum and found your thread. I am impressed with your perseverance. I have similar skills in metal working as you have but I am not sure I would have tackled your rear end project. I probably would have just saved up for a bolt in unit. Anyway, now that I have found this thread, I will be following along.


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## OME573X (Apr 18, 2020)

I think all you need now is a LS3 headed 408!!! LoL beautiful car man









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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I finally started spraying the lizardskin. I got a layer of deadener on before bed. I will spray another in the morning. It looks pretty cool.

I only sprayed areas that have been prepared with primer.

EDIT>>>Sprayed the second coat this morning.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

bills72sj said:


> I am new to the forum and found your thread. I am impressed with your perseverance. I have similar skills in metal working as you have but I am not sure I would have tackled your rear end project. I probably would have just saved up for a bolt in unit. Anyway, now that I have found this thread, I will be following along.


Thanks for following along. The rear end project was fun and saved me TONS of cash vs buying one. Just think, I still have the second axle with the 4.10 gears if I wanted to use it.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

OME573X said:


> I think all you need now is a LS3 headed 408!!! LoL beautiful car man
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No way man! I got my motor and tranny for less than half of the cost for that thing. By the time I add the LSA blower, I will still have less in the motor and tranny than that motor and I will definitely exceed the power of that motor. Not to mention the fact that the blower cool points will exceed the LS3 head points.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Today I have sprayed the first coat of Ceramic and I will say that I am pretty impressed with this stuff so far. The floor is about as dead as I have ever gotten with Dynamat style deadeners and I can only assume that the added bonus of the ceramic heat reduction will make it even more impressive. I will be able to test the heat this weekend as we have more hot weather coming in. While I am impressed, I will say that the dynamat products are easier/Quicker. 

With this stuff you have to spray, wait a couple hours, spray then wait 24hrs then spray, wait a couple hours and finally spray and wait 24 hours again. 
Dynamat you just start appling heating and rolling. When you are done, you are done. but you do not get the added benefit of a seamless application. 

Either way, I will still be using Dynamat style deadener (KNU Kollosus) in other areas of the car since I have the stuff already and since I need to utilize the "bridging: properties of the butyl deadener. Specifically, I have a couple small holes that I found after primer that would have made no sense to gring down, weld up and respray. I thought I could "fill them in" with the spray stuff but it did not work out. I will simply place a sheet of the deadener over the holes and roll it in really well. I have no doube that my floors are structurally solid ans every surface has been sandblasted. These small holes are in areas that are not critical. (Under the rear seat)

So in about 30 minutes, I will spray the final coat of the ceramic spray and then after the 24hr cure I will be ready to begin the re-upholstery phase. I can finally start laying Mass loaded Vinyl (MLV), closed cell foam (CCF) and carpet. 

Exciting!!!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Ceramic spray complete. Tomorrow it should be cured enough to put the seats back in to drive it until I am ready to install all the floor carpet, etc. 
I decided to take the leftover ceramic in the cup to brush into the small holes like seam sealer. Once that cured for 3 hours, I sprayed a layer on top of those areas to blend into the rest. I am 95% pleased with this product. This weekend, once I confirm that the ceramic is working, I will upgrade that to 100%. 

Now I have to decide how I want to topcoat the stuff.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I like it.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> I like it.


I am glad that you do. I know for damn sure that if it reduces the temps like they say it does, I am going to LOVE it! I am telling you, This sucker gets HOTT after driving for a while.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

My Silverado just had the work truck vinyl flooring and the hump would get to hot to touch. I just threw down the bubble/foil wrap thermal barrier when I painted it and it took almost all the warmth away.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> My Silverado just had the work truck vinyl flooring and the hump would get to hot to touch. I just threw down the bubble/foil wrap thermal barrier when I painted it and it took almost all the warmth away.


I may just use that stuff to replace one of my CCF layers under the carpet. I am going for Quiet, super dead floors and ultra insulated. I really do plan to drive this thing pretty much daily ( No winters though). It has got to be comfy. And as a platform for a superb audio system, it has to be quiet.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I already tested the effectiveness of the heat control on a couple drives. I can say that the control point which was the tunnel was significantly cooler than it used to be. I used to touch it and it was very uncomfortable to keep my hand on it. Now I can touch it and keep my hand there all day because it is only warm. The car definitely did not feel super hot like it used to either. I am going to continue testing but it looks like this stuff is working.

Second note, The sound of the exhaust inside the car has changed too. It used to be a bit harsher. Now it is like more mellow. There is a definite drone to the car at the moment which is to be expected with no interior carpet at all. Right now it is only metal, primer, Lizard skin deadener then Lizard skin heat control. I have a feeling that I will be able to drop the noise significantly with MLV and CCF.

Lastly, I totally dig the color of the floor right now.....So much so that I have decided that I may in fact do dark charcoal carpet instead of red. The lizard skin kind of looks like carpet and I actually like it.
You be the judge.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

So I think I have decided on my interior colors. I saw the Blazer in these photos and I am in love. I think I will go this route but with aa few more white accents.








INTERIOR REVOLUTION - 1969 CHEVY BLAZER


VEHICLE DETAILS TRUCK: 1969 Chevrolet Blazer UPHOLSTERY: Interior Revolution BUILDER: Laid-Back USA LEATHER LINE: Full Grain Spanish Tile 1031 CARPET: German Square Weave Charcoal 317 PHOTOGRAPHY: Matt Trombley




relicate.com


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

You'll get to use your charcoal with that color scheme.


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## OME573X (Apr 18, 2020)

Im just messing... I built that engine myself along with a friend and mentor that just died.. heads are stock but it'll make north of 650 with the right cam... Threw it on ebay for the hell of it when they gave me a free sales coupon.

Love your build, still following


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I think I have decided to redo the rear end this winter. Not that there is a problem with the one I have. It is simple. Right now I am running a narrowed 8.8 with 2 in adapter/spacers on each side. This works great but I have always wanted to run it without the spacers. I think I am going to take the second rear end that I have and instead, use the two long axles. This will give me a rear end that is 1 inch wider on each side but with no spacers. I figure, what the hell. I already have the stuff to do it and it is only welding! There are other things to do in the meantime but I think this will be a worthwhile modification.

On another note, I realize that I have a big problem in the trunk. I have a feeling that there is significant rot in the rear window area causing rain water to enter the trunk. I left her out in the rain and opened the trunk the next day to find water on the rotten floor. Looks like there is some window removal happening in my future. I was going to cut the rot out of the trunk floor soon and the leak will need to be addressed if I want any chance at making the new trunk floors last.

Another thing happening soon is the tranny pan. The stock 6l90e pan hangs way too low. A common mod is to take a 6l80 pan from a Pontiac G8 and weld an extension onto it ( it is not as long as a 6l90e pan), then use the 6l80 filter. This mod will get me about an inch more clearance. I do plan on getting the regal closer to the ground and this is a 100% necessary mod in order to do that. I have already ordered the G8 pan and a new 6l90e gasket. The filter came in last week.

I have been working out the details for the Audio system. I am struggling to decide exactly what I want to do with the subwoofer/s. I am definitely wanting to try to do an infinite baffle install but I refuse to deal with rattles. After tapping around the trunk area, I realize that there are so many areas that will need a ton of deadening. there are so many cavities that are behind other cavities and the inner cavities are crazy tin can like. I think I will be spending a great deal of time on deadening this car. I will probably need to use another lizard skin kit in the trunk alone. We will see. This car must be dead! No resonance whatsoever! for this reason, I may be taking a break from the idea of raptor lining the interior until I handle the trunk.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well the good news is that While cleaning the wet items out of the trunk and setting up the fans to dry the trunk out, I found what is a huge indicator that I am right about the source of the wet trunk. The second good news is that I found a large opening that should allow me to get deadening into one of the more worry some areas of trunk rattle.

The bad news is that I have now confirmed that my Regal was the victim of the previous owners shoddy workmanship. I found huge globs of silicone inside the trunk that tells me that he just tried to silicone the leaks rather than actually fix them.

I am oddly excited about starting the fix for this. I truthfully cannot wait to dig into the matter and find out what I have to do to fix this!


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

First enthusiasm I have ever seen about beginning a rust repair.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> First enthusiasm I have ever seen about beginning a rust repair.


It is only because once I find the issues and fix them I can move closer to the awesome stuff. I cannot install anything audio related in a wet trunk. Also, the most exciting part for me is when I see that it is in epoxy primer. That means that the metal is protected and I am usually not in a rush to "have to" stick with that part of the project. I love cutting out rust! It means that that part is now going to get many years more of use. This car is 45 years old, so new metal means possibly not having to worry about it for 45 more years. (I will probably be dead by then BTW)


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Aint that some SHHH! I realized tonight that I could totally fit a W15gtimkii in each side of the rear seat area infinite baffle. The cavity leads back to the trunk. 

My only worry is that in the unlikely event of a tbone accident the rear passengers would get a 15inch sub through the leg. I love my rear seat passengers. 

That sucks because the sub depth is 10.25 and since I am doing a custom rear seat, only 2 inch per side would be needed leaving about 50 inches left for the passengers. 

That would be sick to have two 15's and lose absolutely zero trunk space. The baffle could be built in stackfab style with little glass work. I could make it mostly stealth behind a grill too.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Additional thread for subwoofer possible location here









W15GTImkii IB in back seat-Talk me out of it


Regal build - 1976 Buick Regal- Tribute car So, I need you guys to talk me out of doing this. My 1976 Buick Regal build is in full effect here and I found a nice big empty cavity in the sides of the back seat that is about 10.5 inches deep. The cavity goes into the trunk. The sub mounting depth...




www.diymobileaudio.com


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

It has been a while now since I have posted but I will add a real review of the Lizardskin since I have had enough time to have an opinion.

Heat- WOW. I can definitely vouch for the stuff. The only change to the car was the Lizardskin SC and CI and it made a world of difference. The car was very uncomfortable after 20min drives and the floor was hot to the touch. Not so hot that your skin burned but hot enough that you do not want to keep your bare hand on the metal for too long. Now that the stuff is on and cured completely, I can drive as long as I want and never get uncomfortable.

Noise- There is a noticeable difference in the noise in the car. My exhaust actually sounds different in a good way. There is far less tin can type noises. Hitting the metal is definitely a more dead sound.

Install- The prep work for this stuff is easy but definitely not as easy as typical Butyl deadening sheets. The biggest reason is because once you remove the interior panels with butyl, you lay it down roll it and it is done. You can also do small sections at a time. With the lizardskin, you better remove the whole interior or you are going to get overspray on everything. Also you will need to spray, cure, spray cure spray, cure spray cure. each coat is .2 mil and the final thickness is .8 mil. Then it takes about a week for the stuff to fully cure. You will smell the latex smell until it is cured. If your car is stripped down already it is not a problem though.

Overall-Mission accomplished. Not only would I use it again, I plan to use it again. Any hotrod build should have an application of this for the heat reduction alone. Butyl style deadeners are probably more effective for the deadening but this stuff really did a great job at reducing the heat. I will be using some of the Butyl stuff over the top of the sound control in certain areas but not due to ineffective lizardskin.

Where to use- If you cannot get into an area to scuff and clean the surface then you probably wont be able to use the Lizardskin. In that case if it is possible to reach Butyl in there it would probably work better. That said, I have seen multiple reports of folks that did not have issues spraying the liazrdskin in tough to reach cavities especially since it comes with a 90 degree spray nozzle with the gun.

What I do not like-
First off, I am impatient. I hate waiting for the full cure.
Second, I wish it was tintable like raptor liner.
Third, the finished surface for the black product is actually a dark grey. While I actually do love the color combo with my white/red interior the surface does scratch easily and needs a topcoat. I plan to raptor line mine either in black or a custom color. I would not expect the normal cured surface to be durable. I would suggest top coating.
Last- Cost. The stuff is not cheap. While there are folks that say you can make your own with microballoons and latex paint, I choose to just trust the formulations that Lizardskin has developed. It works so why screw with it. They are an American business too so I might as well support them.

There you have it. From here on out, all my resto-mods will include Lizardskin SC an CI. I hope to buy more for this car.

FYI- I was not paid for this. I bought all products off of amazon with my own pennies! LOL


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

How much weight did the Lizardskin add you think? Meaning how heavy was the material you sprayed in. Thanks for the review. Interesting!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

dgage said:


> How much weight did the Lizardskin add you think? Meaning how heavy was the material you sprayed in. Thanks for the review. Interesting!


Not sure but the weight of the packages is 25lb for the sound control and 12.4 for the ceramic. That includes the container too. I did not use the whole containers so I could weigh them to see the difference.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

dgage said:


> How much weight did the Lizardskin add you think? Meaning how heavy was the material you sprayed in. Thanks for the review. Interesting!


So I did some measuring and the SC pail weighs 7.6lb and the CI pail weighs 4.2lbs. That means I used 17.4lb of SC and 8.2lb of CI for a grand total of 25.6lb.
For grins I measured the remaining KNU Kolossus deadener that I have which was 20 sheets at 1.75 lb each. That is 35 pounds for about 35 square ft. That is 1lb per square ft. 
If that is the case since the two products should have about 45ft2 coverage for 37.4lbs, the Lizardskin is about .83lbs per square foot. So that means that the 35 pounds of Butyl deadener that I have would be 29lb for the same coverage of lizardskin. 

So... Sound deadening ability advantage goes to Butyl but overall advantage goes to Lizardskin because it is also an exceptional heat barrier and deadener. Now, had I used two layers of just Lizardskin sound control, it would have been 1.11lbs per square ft. In that case, Lizardskin wins from an added mass standpoint. 

Another advantage of the Lizardskin is that it sprays and sticks to everything and once applied, there is a complete seam free layer. Had I realized this prior, I might not have taken so much tome welding up pinholes. Areas that were really rusty were replaced with good metal. The areas that had good metal but just a few pinholes I painstakingly drilled and welded all up. I am glad that I did the work though. 

Lastly, One of the things I have always hated about Butyl products is that you always seem to get butyl on stuff once it is applied. When it is warm after installation it will stick to anything. The lizardskin does not have that problem.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Great response. Thanks for sharing!


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## jack19 (Aug 16, 2020)

When I first saw the post title, Gary Biggs' Regal was the first thing that came to mind. 

Props on tackling the rear end. I was too chicken to regear my Excursion on my own, plus it's my DD so I had to minimize down time.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

dgage said:


> Great response. Thanks for sharing!


You are very welcome


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

jack19 said:


> When I first saw the post title, Gary Biggs' Regal was the first thing that came to mind.
> 
> Props on tackling the rear end. I was too chicken to regear my Excursion on my own, plus it's my DD so I had to minimize down time.


I totally understand. I have a few projects that I am being timid about but it will not stop me in the end. I have my mission and it is going to get completed.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

It has been a while since I have posted. I am currently doing small things but not hardcore like I was. I am currently in cut mode at the gym every day but once I attain a certain goal, I will be hitting the car hard. 

I have recently replaced the two front tires since they leaked bad. I am trying to resist bhying any more tires until I get the new wheels and performance tires. 

I have been fitting the horseshoe shifter so I can swap to it instead of the column shifter. I am dreading having to drill a hole in my new sheetmetal for the shifter cable. It has to be done though.

I did some timing tuning and woke her up a bit. The car is much smoother now and has better acceleration. Im on a 93 octane tune now. I will be doing a little more timing tuning this morning to squeeze a little more power out then I will dial it back to safety. 

That is it for now.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

OMG! I cannot belive I just did this. Gots me a package coming next week!


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

You're going to love it.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> You're going to love it.


I sure as hell hope so for that amount of coin for shocks. I only did it so that I can have the best of both worlds. I plan to tune the car for best handling and one tune for best ride. I absolutely cannot wait. Truth be told. Initially, I will be using the coilover shocks in front without the coils. I just cannot decide whether I will be running airride or coilover. If I do airride, I can just use the shock part like a shock. The rear is an easy setup. No coilover needed. It will get either a bag or a spring.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Pure car porn....so sexy.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

The rear shocks are on but I am having a B!tch of a time trying to get the front shocks out in order to do the front. I took a ride with just the rears and I can already tell this is going to be badass! My rear end sway is much better.

Also, my waterproof phone took a swim today and is no longer functioning so I cannot take photos at the moment. It is funny how "red alert" the situation is when you have no means of communication.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

WOW!! Right as it got dark, I was able to get the shock part of the coilovers installed with the factory springs. All I can say is I am very impressed. I did a few laps around the area doing some tuning of the suspension but tomorrow, I will try to get it dialed in 100%.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Today I solved one of this car's mysteries. There was a noise in the front and the car still seemed to lean too much during turns. After looking around, there it was. The sway bar end link on the drivers side was attached but the bottom was missing. Essentially, it looked good from a far but was not functioning at all. So I headed to Autozone and got a polyurethane set and installed them in 5 minutes. Much better!! I am happy but I will need to redo my QA1 shock settings now.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Updates..

Last week has been challenging. My Wife's Grandfather died and I had to be Mr. Mom for a week while she flew to Tx for the services. Then I started feeling pain in my tooth but it was not too bad. Then it was bad!!! I tried to ignore it and doing my normal 430AM 3plus mile swims seemed to help. Well on Wed after the swim, it no longer helped. I was in the 2nd most pain of my life for the next 20 hours until the dentist gave me the best pain I have had in years. The moment he drilled out those nerves, I felt like a human being again rather than a tortured zombie. It was such a relief!

So in the mean time, I found some issues with the car and have begun to correct them. With the new rear end, the upper mounts are higher than the factory rear. Then to make matters worse, when I installed the QA1 shocks, it removed the old shocks with helper springs which no longer help the worn out factory springs. What that means is that the location of my fuel filter/regulator (above the axle) no longer works as during hard bumps the rear end knocks a little on the case. I have made up some extension hoses to allow me to move the regulator to the cross member/front 4 link mounts. This is eye opening because I might be going Airride and that will mean that I am going to have to notch the trunk metal eventually once it is able to drop down low. That is good to know. 

Another mystery solved was the startup roughess. It was kind of spuddering during cold starts and the simple fix war to revert back to when I could remember I had no cold start issue. I uploaded the initial start settings from Jan 2021 which was in thedead of the winter and I had no startup issues whatsoever. Essentially it starts as a factory 6.0 Liter LS but shifts into more like 6.2 liter performance once in gear. 

And today, I will move that regulator and maybe purchased some replacement springs or swap springs with the second 76 regal on the side of the house since it is not sagging. It only had about 66k miles on it vs the over 190k miles on the driving one. 
I might even get the floor shifter working this weekend too. Who knows .


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Update moved the fuel filter/regulator and that took care of the majority of the noise and gave me enough clearance. That is not going to be the end. I ordered the new coil and some coil spring isolators. The factory coil is simply too saggy. The rear is an inch lower than the front and I do not like that. So Sunday I will swap coils when they come in and hopefully The isolators will solve the rest of the noise. I actually think that another source of the noise is going to be the exhaust tips hitting the ground due to the sagginess of the springs during big dips. 

Other than that, the car handles very well already. I believe that once I install the new coils it will handle even better.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

ndm said:


> True, but I am not trying to replace what will soon be very expensive tires. I plan to daily drive this sucker and I cannot give a whole lot of gas at all before it spins. With a posi and wider/better tires it will be better. With boost that will all go out the window. If I get a red light challenge I would prefer to be competitive rather than just make a smoke show every time. 2.73's and boost will be the best combo. 3.73 and NA are a better fit.
> 
> The 6 speed gearing in this tranny gives much better off the line acceleration than a 4 speed or the old 3 speed.


Think about 3.07/3.08 or 3.23/3.27 gearing. I'm very fond of 3.08's.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

ndm said:


> Update moved the fuel filter/regulator and that took care of the majority of the noise and gave me enough clearance. That is not going to be the end. I ordered the new coil and some coil spring isolators. The factory coil is simply too saggy. The rear is an inch lower than the front and I do not like that. So Sunday I will swap coils when they come in and hopefully The isolators will solve the rest of the noise. I actually think that another source of the noise is going to be the exhaust tips hitting the ground due to the sagginess of the springs during big dips.
> 
> Other than that, the car handles very well already. I believe that once I install the new coils it will handle even better.


They make booster airbags that fit inside the coil springs, they work great for problems like that.


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## bills72sj (Jun 1, 2021)

Thank you for sharing your build. My 2 cents on the gearing. IF your tranny's highest ratio is 1:1 in 6th then 3.73 gear will be annoying based on the opinion of many from my Grand Prix group. I have 3.07 and kinda wish I had 3.23 or 3.42s. If you have overdrive then I suggest you do the math to pick a rear for that sweet spot. Lean higher numerically if your tires are tall or the opposite if they are not. I also second the air bags in the springs as an easy solution for rear ride height.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> Think about 3.07/3.08 or 3.23/3.27 gearing. I'm very fond of 3.08's.





bills72sj said:


> Thank you for sharing your build. My 2 cents on the gearing. IF your tranny's highest ratio is 1:1 in 6th then 3.73 gear will be annoying based on the opinion of may from my Grand Prix group. I have 3.07 and kinda wish I had 3.23 or 3.42s. If you have overdrive then I suggest you do the math to pick a rear for that sweet spot. Lean higher numerically if your tires are tall or the opposite if they are not. I also second the air bags in the springs as an easy solution for rear ride height.


I am already running 3.73 gears with this 6 speed 6l90E that I swapped with the 6 liter and I love it. My car has a Ford 8.8 rear swapped. I have another 8.8 with 4.10 gears sitting if I wanted to use it. With this motor, trans and 3.73 gear combo it is awesome!




ckirocz28 said:


> They make booster airbags that fit inside the coil springs, they work great for problems like that.


I am going to run the replacement coils only until I decide on Air ride or static drop. The booster coils would have cost more than the replacement coils though!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Yes!

Update... 10 min spring swap and she gained about 1.5 inches of height back prior to any settling. Looks way better and time for a drive to get it settled.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Weekend update. 
Not much completed but what was done took forever!! Man i almost gave up on the double adjustable shocks. I was driving every day trying to get them set up for basically a "new car factory but firm style ride". I was getting pissed because I kept getting this, for lack of better words, "Man boob bounce" type of ride. Every time I would approach that intersection between a great ride and firm, I would go one click firmer and there it goes again. I called QA1 and it was not really any help. Finally, I decided to just start all over completely one more time. I got the silky smooth marshmallow ride first. Damn, that thing drove so nice as if I was on a cloud but had absolutely no cornering ability at all. Then I got the "Um, that's nice" ride with a little thud and a little better cornering. That one just was not there yet. Next it was the "I could live with this" type of ride. Not good enough. After going after it for a while, I finally got there!

What I have now is a new car factory ride that is good for whipping around corners reasonably fast. There is no bounce to it and I could definitely invite any family member on a ride without complaints. My next step is to document where I am at so that I can always go back to that setting but start dialing in some corner cutting action to the car. For now, I am happy with the ride though and that feels good. 

I am starting to get happy and sad though. In just a few weeks I will put her on the lawn as my annual Halloween prop with smoke machines and assorted items to make it look scary for the kiddo's. After that, it is getting put up so I can begin tearing it down again for winter. There is tons of sanding, metal work and priming to do. I am getting every bit of rust that I can out of the car so that next spring I can be riding in pure bliss again.


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## bills72sj (Jun 1, 2021)

Congratz on getting the handling you are looking for. I got lucky with the set up on mine years ago. Cutting one coil from the stock front springs gave me both the ride height and the firmness I was looking for. Adding fat sway bars front and rear gave me the handling that is amazing for a car of it size. My only complaint is the bumpsteer in turns on rough roads. I need to get me some tie rod end spacers to correct it.

I admire your tenacity to tackle the rust removal. Good luck with your project.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

bills72sj said:


> Congratz on getting the handling you are looking for. I got lucky with the set up on mine years ago. Cutting one coil from the stock front springs gave me both the ride height and the firmness I was looking for. Adding fat sway bars front and rear gave me the handling that is amazing for a car of it size. My only complaint is the bumpsteer in turns on rough roads. I need to get me some tie rod end spacers to correct it.
> 
> I admire your tenacity to tackle the rust removal. Good luck with your project.


Tenacity.... nah... I am just not smart enough to realize that paying someone else to do it is probable the better way. 

I really want to get her done so I can move on to my next ride.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Love the build man 
Very cool


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Ok, Just an update as to why the audio portion of the build has not yet begun. A couple reasons but the main one is that the car is going to have to go through a major rehab of the rear window area. At the moment, every time it rains I get a trunk full of water. This is due to the couple holes in the floor that should not be too bad to fix but the window frame area is pretty rotten and I will need to remove the rear window to get rid of all the bad metal. That is okay though because in a couple weeks, after the annual "park the car on the lawn for Halloween" the car is getting parked and up on wheel cribs for the winter. 

Second reason-
The dash is going to have to get an extensive overhaul. The factory radio location is horrendous and I wont be able to put any kind of cool head unit in there. I am either going to cut the factory dash up to swap a few things around or I am going to build a complete dash from scratch. I an heavily leaning toward one of the Joying Android radios for the SPDIF outputs that will go to a Helix processor. With the factory location there is no way that it would work. 

That is all for now.


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## martinjammin (Oct 27, 2021)

Delete


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Okay, I am almost certain that I have solved one of my issues with the car and it is not quite unique but I have never seen it done the way I am going to do it.
The issues-
1. Due to the fact that I am using a Gen IV LS based motor, the old speed sensor cable no longer works. All of the info is via CANBUS which is quite convenient. As of this moment I am using the old Android tablet that I had laying around with the Realdash app and it works great. It is highly customizable and displays everything that can be seen through canbus which is anything that the ECU can see essentially. That is basically a whole bunch!

2. The factory radio location in this car sucks ass. It is buried behind the steering wheel and under the dash. It is barely visible and there is no chance of even installing a flip out screen or anything.

3. I want to have a modernized dash with a nice screen similar to a modern vehicle. This car is a resto-mod after all. Old car with modern guts.

4. I want to run the floor console and horse shoe shifter from the car that started all of this and trying to install the radio under the dash in the center will block the view of the console and Buick emblem. I do not want that.

The Solution-
If you have ever seen the holley or the autometer digital dash, they are pretty cool but Damned expensive! I live the look but I am not spending $1500-$2500 on a dash.
Holley-



Autometer-



Now I Love the look of both of those but fortunately for me, all I need is something that can communicate with the ECU to access everything. Well I already have that. I was thinking about actually buying a surface tablet to install in the car. That way I can tune the car on the go and have access to the gauges and data. But again we are back at spending over a grand and I dont even get a radio with it.









Joying!!!
https://www.joyingauto.com/joying-1...o-head-unit-4gb-64gb-with-optical-output.html
Amazon.com: JOYING Android 10.0 System Universal Single Din 8.8 inch IPS Touch Screen 4GB RAM 64GB ROM 8 Core GPS Sat Nav Support Bluetooth/5G WiFi/USB/SD/FM Radio/Android Auto/Subwoofer : Electronics
Multiple Joying videos- https://www.youtube.com/c/BoykaJoying/videos
If you know about them then you know that there is a good following for their products. What I am going to do is purchase the skinny Joying radio which is about 9.4"wide x4.1" tall and use the removable face plate as my digital dash. The benefit of this is that is is a fraction of the cost of the Holley/Autometer units, it has radio, GPS, optical output, coax SPDIF output and looks absolutely great. It will install easily with an extension cable and allow me freedom to do alot more stuff. The Speedhut gauges that I was going to purchase will cost more that the headunit/dash. There is no Proprietary connectors used and I have the benefit of multiple USB inputs, reverse cam etc. It can be made to look like whatever you want.

Now, The truth of the matter is that I will additionally be adding one of the bigger Joying head units to the dash in the modern radio location (center dash) but this skinnier unit would be specifically meant for gauges. You can barely beat the cost of this thing as a tablet purchase alone.

An added benefit of installing the skinny Joying unit in the dash is ease of fabrication. There is only 1 cheap plastic panel that will need to be modified in order to make it fit. The black factory gauge surround simply clicks in and out. It can easily be reversed too. Just take the factory gauges out and a little minor fiberglass work to fit the screen. Mount the brain box aka the radio part somewhere within 3 feet of the dash and wire it up. There would be nothing blocking the view of the Joying unit and it will be shaded by the gauge overhang.
More photos to follow....
Stay tuned!!


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I have a couple different Joying units and they are great for the price. They also sell screen extension cables so you can remote mount the brain.

Know this. Some apps that are not tablet friendly do not work on the skinny screens.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> I have a couple different Joying units and they are great for the price. They also sell screen extension cables so you can remote mount the brain.
> 
> Know this. Some apps that are not tablet friendly do not work on the skinny screens.


Thanks. I will check on the skinny screen compatibility before pulling the trigger. As far as the Joying units in general, I am hearing excellent stuff but the main one is the audio quality with the SPDIF output. That is the biggest draw to them. The second is the remote screen mount capability. That makes it so much more install friendly.

EDIT>>>
This is the RSNAV but it looks to be the same unit as the Joying one and Both torque pro and Realdash work.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I use Torque. Definitely works. A big name one that doesn't of Tidal. They told me themselves that the so doesn't have the scaling programming for that platform.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> I use Torque. Definitely works. A big name one that doesn't of Tidal. They told me themselves that the so doesn't have the scaling programming for that platform.


No worries. Any app that does not work, I will figure out a solution. I have also been wanting something like a FIIO player too. I may just get one of those in addition. Honestly, I have never used Tidal though.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Halloween!! I freaking love it!!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> I use Torque. Definitely works. A big name one that doesn't of Tidal. They told me themselves that the so doesn't have the scaling programming for that platform.


Can you tell me if the joying unit with coax outputs to a helix dsp will require a helix director for volume control? Will the joying volume control work in that situation?


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

As far as I know the Joying can control volume in all situations.

I've used optical, high level, and RCA. In that order for best sound. All in to a Minidsp.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> As far as I know the Joying can control volume in all situations.
> 
> I've used optical, high level, and RCA. In that order for best sound. All in to a Minidsp.


I am starting to feel like Joying for me is going to be like the Alpine of the 90's and 2000's. I had all alpine headunits until the AInet stuff started disappearing.
Joying seems to get it! They seem to follow what their customers are telling them. For me, I have only found a couple things that they are lacking. I would love to see more camera inputs (I need blindspot cams for my tiny Buick mirrors), I want s quick way to access volume controls ( a big floating button would be nice) and the third which is not their fault. Hptuners software does not work on non-windows devices.

Quite frankly, I think I am going to run just the wide screen 10.25 in the dash where the factory gauges are now and call it a day. I will have everything that I need (gauges and headunit) and I will only have to modify the cheap plastic factory gauge surround. I will locate the actual brain box somewhere hidden. It will look like modern dash but will have everything I need in one convenient package. Then I can just bring my laptop or maybe purchase a surface tablet to tune the car when needed.

I have had the unit in my cart for days. My Jeep may just get the bigger version to replace my current Kenwood DNN991HD. The 2 second boot time alone would be worth it. The coax digital out would be a cherry on top. 

https://www.joyingauto.com/joying-1...o-head-unit-4gb-64gb-with-optical-output.html


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

This works great. 









JOYING Latest Universal Steering Wheel Controller for Android Car Stereo Radio | eBay


And really appreciate if you can shoot a video to share your installation and use experience of our Android car stereo on YouTube. If there is any delay, it may be caused by Bad Weather or Custom inspection.



www.googleadservices.com


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

We have attached to the steering wheel in our Astro Van but I'm going throw it in the dash when I do the ac/hu position swap.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> This works great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, That was going to get installed somewhere custom. 

Look, as this morning he has another video with external DVD support.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

You can run windows programs on Android. I did it with my first touch screen years ago.

You could probably run wine.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> You can run windows programs on Android. I did it with my first touch screen years ago.
> 
> You could probably run wine.


I would have to check but when tuning my motor/trans, I do not want to try anything experimental. That could have catastrophic consequences for the motor, trans, ecu or all the above. It would be easier to just run the Joying in the factory dash gauge area to run the audio and gauges but then install a surface tablet permanently or even just tote it back and forth when I want to tune the car.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well, I purchased my "Digital gauge cluster" today. https://www.joyingauto.com/media/ca...o_for_8.8_single_din_support_5ghz_wifi_4_.jpg
After agonizing thought, I finally decided to purchase the smaller of the Joying wide format head units to use exactly as I am using the android tablet now. I will remove the factory gauges and modify the cluster surround to fit the 8.8 unit. I really wanted to fit the 10.25 model in there but it was just not worth the extra dash modification. I just might do more thinking on it in the future but for now, I am happy with my decision. For the moment, this will serve as the headunit (radio) and the gauges. I will have a superb signal to the future signal processor that will be used for the audio system. I will also have a backup cam that was purchased with the unit too. That will be nice since the mirrors on this thing are tiny and I usually cannot see crap.

I also pulled the dash pad out of the car while doing all the measurements. I am still contemplating adding the large 10.1in Joying headunit HERE to the center of the dash to serve as a dedicated Head unit. I know, two separate radios in the same car. Sounds goofy until you think of it as having the smaller radio as a gauge replacement and the bigger one as the infotainment center for the passengers. The cost of these units is so reasonable that it is not so burdensome on the pockets.

I am having trouble figuring out when I am going to start really tearing the car apart since the weather is not so bad yet. I am really going to miss driving it this winter.

In other news, I found the perfect shifter for the car. It seems that this company makes a replacement 6l80/6l90 horseshoe shifter that has built in tap shifting....It will 100% be getting installed into the factory console.
https://www.kilduffmachine.com/store/p51/_Horseshoe_shifter_for_6L80_and_factory_consoles_#1199.html


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I just decided to use Oneguage and a raspberry pi as my engine management. 7" HD touch screen. I can use whatever screen I want with an HDMI. I'll be using TunerStudio software. I am likely going to have a guy 3D print me a dash insert sized to hold the screen. I also purchased the Shadowdash to use on my Joying HU just in case something goes wrong with the main dash.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Change in plans again. I started fitting the Joying wide-screen in place it see how it fit and I did not like the idea based solely on the structure of the car. I have since purchased the bigger 10.1 screen after having found a way to fit it in front of the console and centered. I will be purchasing the speedhut gauges after all. Overall, I am happy with this change. I unboxed the Joying wide unit completely so it will be going back.

This upgrade will give me way better resolution, a much bigger screen, symmetry and will require much less work to get it in there. It cost me about a hundred more though. Yolo. The new location will also be easier to retrofit any newer components in the event of equipment failure or future upgrades


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Since you have Android unit why don't you try something Shadowdash MS?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> Since you have Android unit why don't you try something Shadowdash MS?


I never heard of it until your post. I am checking it out but I already own HPtuners and know how to use it (very important). I will definitely check it out though!


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Cartoons in my youth taught me that!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Yes, this is much better. Without turning this new Joying head unit on I can already tell that it is the better choice. The new proposed location will not distract much from the original console. It is out of the way. It will not require any permanent modification to the car to install either. 

It is a little bit of a reach but I can deal with that.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Wow. Those are the words I chose to describe this 10.1 Joying head unit. I hooked it up in the basement to play with it a bit and Wow! It is quick. It is a beautiful display. I am totally digging this thing. It is also super simple to figure out IMO. I cannot wait to try it with my DSP. I already found a hidden feature too. I hooked my USB Logitech mx master 3 mouse dongle up to the radio and almost instantly the cursor popped up. It works great and I am thinking running a track pad. 

I will get the thing installed asap and start installing some apps.

Android auto testing worked great too. Very quick! I am glad I don't have the lagging of the big brand units. This thing is cool.

The screen is leaps and bounds better than my old head units. Shiney, yes but very nice!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

The Real dash app is confirmed to work. The ability to add any custom background is great. The video quality is sweet. About the only thing I do not 100% dig is the backup cam. I may not have it set correctly but the quality in the dark is kind of not too good. I can buy a different cam though. 

I made some modifications to my aluminum bracket that I am fabbing up for it and it now fits the car nicely. I should be able to install it pretty soon in its new home. 

Here are a few random pics of the bench testing.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Did you buy the one with night vision? Ours works great.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> Did you buy the one with night vision? Ours works great.


I'm pretty sure I did. It is the AHD one on Amazon.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Nice! I had to hook this bad boy temporarily up in the car. It boots up sooooooo fast. Key on and boom, it is on. The Obd2 port is now connected and works as expected. I will now start making the side beauty panels and running the wires to other stuff. I will take a drive tomorrow if I get everything all hooked up.

Pics


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Here is a quick video of the speed of the bootup and snap into the Realdash app. Pretty quick if you ask me.


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## jack19 (Aug 16, 2020)

ndm said:


> Here is a quick video of the speed of the bootup and snap into the Realdash app. Pretty quick if you ask me.


Good lord that makes my Pioneer look like it's standing still. That Joying is on my short list now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

jack19 said:


> Good lord that makes my Pioneer look like it's standing still. That Joying is on my short list now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For years I have hated the 30 sec boot up on my Excelon high end unit. This thing is wicked fast and it is only the 4gb ram version. Next one will be the 6gb one. 

As far as I am concerned, if you run dsp, these Android units with toslink and spdif outs are the way to go. I love the design of Joying for custom installs and their customer service rocks. Quick responses to questions from halfway around the globe on multiple platforms is impressive.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> Did you buy the one with night vision? Ours works great.


Hey, do you know what the numbers in the surround space menu represent? Inches, centimeters,etc? I emailed joying but figured you might answer before them since it is probably night time there. They do respond very quickly though.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I'm not sure which ones you are referencing.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> I'm not sure which ones you are referencing.


The time alignment is what I am talking about


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Nope. Never used any of the DSP features as I have standalones.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I feel kind of bad. I hate it when I buy the "Best of" product and get it installed only for a better product to come out right after. I purchased the 10.1 Joying Android radio and got it installed only to see that there is a newer model that is faster, more features and has a better interface. Well, good thing I purchased the original one on Amazon because I have a long return period. Today I placed the order for the newer one and even got the slightly bigger one this time.

So the Regal will get a 11.6 inch screen instead of the 10.1 screen. I had already begun to cut up the crappiest of the two dashboards that I have to fit the big screen up high when I realized that I could actually fit a bigger screen so it was perfect timing for the discovery of the newer product. The new one should be coming in right before my return window is up so hopefully I can get a chance to compare the two side by side.

I will attach a photo of where the dash modification sits as of now in an edit from my phone. Essentially, the location where I have it currently is just simply too far down and too much of a reach from the drivers seat position. Since this dash is already in a crappy condition, I do not feel bad about cutting it up to make it look more modern.

Here is a link to the new one.
New Released 11.6" 1Din After-Market Car Stereo Supports 1920*1080 Resolution

Edit: so in the photos you can see the difference in the sizes, the sectioned glove compartment door, the moved door latch location and the 10.1 screen location vs the new higher (slightly off center) location for the 11.6.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Yes! My new Joying head unit, a 39 inch display cable extension and the external dvd drive got delivered 3 days ahead of schedule today! I have already hooked the dvd up to my phone and played an old Hannah Montana Dvd that was laying around (My daughter is a 23 yr old college grad now, lol). I also played a burned cd and a store bought cd with music. Works great and realized that it can burn dvd's if I want.

So basically, during the big after holidays restock, they delivered the 3 items 9 days from my order. My original delivery date was estimated to be 01-20 and I got it early this afternoon. Not bad at all!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Too bad I just scratched the screen while trying to fit it in a new location. I emailed them and hope they might help me out since this is the 2nd day of ownership. Even if it was not their fault, I have my fingers crossed. I knew I should have put the shipping film back on. I was just too excited to get it fitted to the dash. Why does this always happen to me.....!!!???


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Wow that sucks, I wish you the best with them hopefully taking care of you.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> Wow that sucks, I wish you the best with them hopefully taking care of you.


Yeah they will take care of me alright....for $180 for a new screen. That sucks but I will have to decide what I want to do about it. It is hardly visible with the screen on operation but damn, I have a brand spanking new head unit with a scratch and that will bother me forever. I once had a brand new car that got hit with a rogue golf ball directly in the middle of the hood within 24hrs of ownership. It feels kind of like that. It kills me because I was just about to post a 5 star review on Youtube of the product. I still feel like the product is 5 star but how the hell am I going to post a video with a scratch like that. I hoped that Joying would send me a new screen since I mean it would be a nice thing to do. My youtube video would have 100% brought them more than the $180 that the new screen would have brought them. 

For the record, I understand that the scratch was my fault and that they are not obligated to remedy the situation. The head unit is fricking awesome with only a couple minor critiques. I just wish I had not set the screen down where I set it down. I would still buy Joying products but damn, this scratch is going to bother me. My review of their great customer service stands but with this slight hit. If it were my own company, I would have sent a screen out and simply asked for a review to let folks know how we took care of the problem. I will continue my custom installation of the unit in the Regal but I will stare at that scratch like a dime sized pimple for the rest of the time I own it. 

So, summary- The joying head unit is very nice. It is very fast with a very nice screen.
My only wish is that -
1- The widgets in the new interface were translucent like the last one so I can see my custom background on the home screen.
2. The new 27 band EQ has 27 bands total. The older one had 16 bands front and 16 bands rear. (this is only for those that are not using a different dsp like helix or mosconi, etc)
3. I do not like the included file manager. The old one was easy to navigate
4. The new unit did not include the images, a few songs and videos of China and a few other locations in high def which really showed the quality of the old 1920x1200 screen. 
5.There was one more minor thing and I will update this once I remember it
---EDIT___ the 5th was that I am trying to figure out why I cannot get my Galaxy note to show up as an SD card. It is probably an issue with my phone to be fair. I will update.....


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well, Finally I have a pretty good update.
--I was able to get the rough install figured out for the custom mounted Joying 11.6 with the scratched screen. I am going to live with the scratch for now but I think I will eventually buy the replacement to satisfy my OCD.

-- I am not using the mounting system that came with the radio. The plastic clips hold the screen out too far due to the old ducting behind the location. Rather than cutting the ducting up, I decided to make a removeable cradle with ridiculously strong Neo magnets to hold the screen in place...Trust me, this thing is held in there super well. it takes some effort to remove the screen cradle from the mount. The actual brain box for the head unit is mounted below the original center speaker hole which will now be an access hole for cables and whatnot on the radio. The dash that I am using is all tore up from the sun and I figured I might as well cut it up rather than the other dash that only has a couple cracks in it. Eventually I will figure out what will go in the access hole location. It might be a center channel speaker or more likely a gauge pod for engine items. Materials used for this were simple pvc house trim from the big box store, 2p-10 rubber toughened CA glue and epoxy as well as screws and the magnets.

--The radio works great but one issue that is bothering me. My favorite app Realdash is not working in this head unit. The other unit worked just fine. The torque app works so I know that my OBD2 bluetooth adapter is working. It may be a problem with the app. I will find out soon enough. It should not be too much of an issue because I will be ordering all my Gauges soon from speedhut and will no longer need the function that Realdash provided me.

--The separate wireless steering wheel controls work great accept for the fact that this headunit has the google voice input for the steering wheel programming reserved for some reason. The main complaint from most people about Joying headunits is the lack of a physical or quick volume button. That issue is mostly fixed by the cheap steering wheel controls and the small quick button that when selected, stays on the screen all the time. Within 2 touches, you are changing the volume.

--I do not have my speakers, processor, amps or subs installed so I temporarily have a speaker from an old surround sound system hooked up to the radio amp to be able to hear sound.

--There is one "Issue" that is not really an issue. I have a custom boot screen image selected for the car. The problem is that the head unit boots up damn near instantaneously and you never see it!! Great problem to have.

--I think I will be using Nova launcher as my default launcher because it is super simple and has everything I need within 2 swipes of the screen. I like the factory launcher but I want the ability to change the color of the home screen widgets to either transparent (so I can always see my custom background) or to red to match the car. The similar Teyes CC3 UI allows you to change the color to anything you want. Nova launcher lets me do that easily.


That is about it. The unit is stupid fast it looks great and is fully customizable. I will add the pics later with an edit on my phone. Please excuse the messy car that is under construction and remember, This whole dash and interior will be getting custom upholstery. I am just getting the "framing" done.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Brief update. Joying has sent me a replacement screen! I am very pleased.


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## Mike Lang (Apr 6, 2021)

That looks like a fun project. And there's a decent chance I was inside that box truck from the original post back in the mid to late 90's.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

That's really amazing and surprising customer service.


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

Good call about Nova Launcher-it's the best Android launcher by far


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Mike Lang said:


> That looks like a fun project. And there's a decent chance I was inside that box truck from the original post back in the mid to late 90's.


Unfortunately this fun project has come to a crawl because I simply am tired of working in the cold winter. I just cannot seem to get the motivation to freeze my nads off to work in the garage. 
Thanks though.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> That's really amazing and surprising customer service.


The reason why they are sending the screen is maybe not specifically due to the scratch though. The extension cable would not work. I got a distorted screen. Once I notified them, they said that the screen is bad and sent a new one. So yes, great customer service still. Funny thing is that I found a way to use the radio without the extension cable. With the factory length cable, the screen works fine. 

Either way, I am happy that I did not do some kind of shady stuff to get them to replace the screen because of the scratch. I am also happy that they decided to send me the new screen. 
Excellent outcome and I will be definitely doing a review on youtube because they are really doing good stuff at the moment.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

mfenske said:


> Good call about Nova Launcher-it's the best Android launcher by far


Honestly, I really do like the simplicity of Nova launcher. I really wanted like another launcher but Nova has really won me over. Again, I would use the factory launcher if It had see through widgets so I can see my custom background though.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

ndm said:


> Okay, I am almost certain that I have solved one of my issues with the car and it is not quite unique but I have never seen it done the way I am going to do it.
> The issues-
> 1. Due to the fact that I am using a Gen IV LS based motor, the old speed sensor cable no longer works. All of the info is via CANBUS which is quite convenient. As of this moment I am using the old Android tablet that I had laying around with the Realdash app and it works great. It is highly customizable and displays everything that can be seen through canbus which is anything that the ECU can see essentially. That is basically a whole bunch!
> 
> ...


Ima steal your idea fam

Sent from my LM-Q730 using Tapatalk


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

ndm said:


> The reason why they are sending the screen is maybe not specifically due to the scratch though. The extension cable would not work. I got a distorted screen. Once I notified them, they said that the screen is bad and sent a new one. So yes, great customer service still. Funny thing is that I found a way to use the radio without the extension cable. With the factory length cable, the screen works fine.
> 
> Either way, I am happy that I did not do some kind of shady stuff to get them to replace the screen because of the scratch. I am also happy that they decided to send me the new screen.
> Excellent outcome and I will be definitely doing a review on youtube because they are really doing good stuff at the moment.


I’m Happy to hear to got a new scratch free screen, that would have drove me nuts to. Good for them for coming through even though the original screen is probably just fine 🤣 and it’s just a cable issue. Either way you got Lucky! Our nads are going to freezing for awhile but whenever you want help, let me know.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Ima steal your idea fam
> 
> Sent from my LM-Q730 using Tapatalk


You have my blessings! Hell I may still do this since I am now rebuilding the dash anyway.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

clange2485 said:


> I’m Happy to hear to got a new scratch free screen, that would have drove me nuts to. Good for them for coming through even though the original screen is probably just fine 🤣 and it’s just a cable issue. Either way you got Lucky! Our nads are going to freezing for awhile but whenever you want help, let me know.


Heck yeah! I am about to help myself. Decided that it is time to use some company bonus money on a Triumph C7000 car lift. That is going to completely change the game for me!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

I'd like to get a back up camera/ dash cam with my set up. The back up camera is just 12v dc connector and a yellow video rca. So i assume any camera would work. Ill use google to find a quality one.

However, the front dash camera looks a little lack luster. The videos they show of it working also shows them installing software via the usb when its plugged in. So im assuming you cant use any other dash camera other than theirs?


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Their hd night vision backup camera is really good. Especially for $23.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> Their hd night vision backup camera is really good. Especially for $23.





Jscoyne2 said:


> I'd like to get a back up camera/ dash cam with my set up. The back up camera is just 12v dc connector and a yellow video rca. So i assume any camera would work. Ill use google to find a quality one.
> 
> However, the front dash camera looks a little lack luster. The videos they show of it working also shows them installing software via the usb when its plugged in. So im assuming you cant use any other dash camera other than theirs?


I have 2 of the reverse cams. I am going to hook up a circuit that I figured out in order to turn the revers cam mounted near the side view mirror into a blind spot cam since the mirrors on this car are tiny. 

Also, for anyone that wants the DVD player that they sell, I found the exact unit that they rebrand. It is much cheaper and only requires the two apps that are available on the play store in order to work. Out of respect for Joying though, I am not going to list the model number. They figured it out so you can too. I like having the ability to play old DVDs whenever I want though and the unit can burn dvds and be used in the same way that any old external dvd rom is used. It WILL NOT WORK WITHOUT THE APPS though.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well, I am at it again. I just sent funds for a Helix DSP pro for this car. .......and ....I will be sending funds for a pair of SI BM mkV subs ......
I admit..I have a problem but at least I will have everything needed to complete the audo in in this car now!!


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

ndm said:


> Well, I am at it again. I just sent funds for a Helix DSP pro for this car. .......and ....I will be sending funds for a pair of SI BM mkV subs ......
> I admit..I have a problem but at least I will have everything needed to complete the audo in in this car now!!


We all have a problem 🤣 - Congrats on the recent purchases @ribrown is a great guy. Enjoy the new dsp!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Edit....Stay tuned
Edit!!! Sheww!! I got worried there. I posted a message that I got a misc box in the mail. In that box was a box that labeled LCD and in that box was my new screen.

I then very happily made my post on this forum. Then I was like, lets test it.......only to find a powered on but non working screen. I then peed my pants a little thinking that this sucks. Just my luck. So I emailed Joying and edited this post to read "Stay tuned".

Then

I plugged the older screen in and low and behold same thing, no screen.....That is good! So because I am a technical guy, I decided to follow the number one rule of low tier troubleshooting (power cycle that bish!!). After removing power and waiting a minute, powered her back up and voila! old screen works. I removed power again and swapped to the new screen while crossing my fingers.

Pow, BOOM, BANG!!!! problem solved!!

so..... I emailed Joying to to say "disregard the previous email" and now I am here editing this post that Joying is indeed AWESOME!!

They came through for me. I now have a perfectly new headunit with no scratches!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Looky what we have here!


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I need a pair too.


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## HAMMERx831 (Dec 22, 2010)

Great Build Log! I found it after searching some info on running RealDash on a Joying headunit!

Gotta say, my project truck is similar to your earlier plan. I'm using an 8.8 inch Joying in the dash as my Gauge cluster with added benefit of camera inputs, and another dedicated android radio in the console for all other functions (Either a Teyes cc3 or 11.6" Joying).

Both screens will display cameras, the console screen displays a 360 birds eye system, and the gauge screen displays front and rear "bumper" cams, as well as side mirror cams. All triggers and switching done with a PAC 4 way switcher. 
Also using a Crimestopper parking sensor system to trigger on the front cam when obstacles are detected under 5mph and only in drive/forward gears.
ONE day I would lover to add a FLIR pathfindir to the gauge screen that pops its video feed on when people/animals are detected only at night (power thru the DEI auto headlight system)

Just wanted to add some other ways I have mine set up to give you an idea or two. 
In the joying settings, there's a setting for auto-navi when starting. I have this enabled, and for navigation app, you can select anything (doesn't have to be a navi app). Mine is set.on RealDash. When the vehicle turns on, the Joying displays RealDash immediately, and reverts back to it after the Camera input turns off.
If you make a steering wheel control mapped to Navi/gps, you can pop on any app with that button by again changing the Navi app in settings to what you want.

Just s couple things to thinl about.

Cheers!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> I need a pair too.


You need a pair too and I need two pair! Lol


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

HAMMERx831 said:


> Great Build Log! I found it after searching some info on running RealDash on a Joying headunit!
> 
> Gotta say, my project truck is similar to your earlier plan. I'm using an 8.8 inch Joying in the dash as my Gauge cluster with added benefit of camera inputs, and another dedicated android radio in the console for all other functions (Either a Teyes cc3 or 11.6" Joying).
> 
> ...


Cool 
Thanks for the tips. I will have to play around with it a little more then. There is a ton that these android units are capable of.


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## HAMMERx831 (Dec 22, 2010)

ndm said:


> Cool
> Thanks for the tips. I will have to play around with it a little more then. There is a ton that these android units are capable of.


No problem man! Yeah i happened upon that trick by accident, but it can be super useful! 
The first year or so of owning my Joying in my Daily, I had the Navi app set to the DVR Dashcam, and made a steering wheel control button pop it on the screen .

These radios really are so cool with the customization and now with digital outputs.
I'm waiting to discover the limits of the Blutooth function for another trick install feature. 

The plan is to have a Fiio DAP connected to the Helix dsp via coaxial. Then run the Fiio Link app on the headunit. That link app allows to control the Fiio DAP remotely from an android device. In theory, you could keep the Fiio hidden away, and control it from the Joying screen and/or steering wheel controls.
This is all dependent on the bluetooth functionality (bluetooth data communication). It wasnt possible on my android 8.0 Joying, but these new android 10.0 versions have new bluetooth functions like ability to control a bluetooth wireless relay panel and bluetooth led lights. 
I need to get a DAP to test this out. Just another way to make them a great choice for sq guys


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Uh OH!!! Annual Bonus paid out.....here we go!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well, it looks like my shifter finally got shipped Friday and will be here on tuesday most likely. While I am not impressed with the 15 days that it took to build the shifter, I really hope that it works fantastic as it seems that it will. I will finally have a horseshoe shifter with tap shift. The ecu is already programmed so I just have to get it installed and wired.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

The shifter is here. I will definitely need todo something about deadening the rattly metal that it s made of. I know 100% that it will be a noisey part once the audio gets installed. I do not do rattles.

Plase excuse the speakers in the photos.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I really disliked the messy wiring inside the shifter. There was also some wire that could be rubbed on edges so I clipped the 2 zipties that it came with and covered the wires with tessa tape before adding more zipties. 

I also got rid of some crazy rattles by adding closed cell foam stickies to needed areas. Then there was the loose tolerance of the sliding lever. Holy crap that thing was loose. I cut some super thin pvc shims to put between the metal. I will replace the shims with UHMW poly once I find the chunk that is somewhere.

This is all necessary because the future audio equipment would have caused that thing to be a rattle monster. Also those wires touching edges would have definitely have rubbed thin eventually.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

sean Buick 76 said:


> You should document your mods and share them with the shifter company.


I may do that. I am a little apprehensive though because I have had 3 conversations with the guy over there and I do not know if it would be appreciated. He is a nice guy and all it seems but I do not know if he is the "best listener". This should not reflect the actual functionality of the product. You just have to realize that the product is not being used by just the racing community who only care about low weight and function. This is being used in a custom high end car audio build that just so happens to also be a restomod with an LS swap. The racing community may not care about that rattle coming from the center console. For me though, I have gone insane chasing down those tiny annoying rattles. That is all I need is for some Judge at a competition to hear that rattle and completely ignore the rest of that audio. 

Again, This is not saying that I do not like the product or that it is not worth it. The way it was built will work for 90% of the people using it. But for the Audio crowd that is reading this thread, Once those big infinite baffle JBL W15 GTImkII subs start gyrating the metal on this car, resonance will be a major problem. I am not putting all the time, money and effort into sound deadening just to have the shifter hollering every time the subs move.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I called and the guy was very clear to not disassemble the shifter... problem is, there is no way to install without disassembly. 

I now realize that it was designed for a different style horseshoe shifter console. The middle gear indicator plate on some of them is removeable. Mine is not. 

Sooooooo.. Mr Kilduff or whomever you are that I spoke with, I am really sorry but The shifter has begun it's surgery. 

I have now clearanced the openings on the factory console and removed the felts and brackets holding the felts on the outer edges. That is about the extent that I am willing to modify the factory console. 

I sanded the aluminum uprights down by 1/32 on each side to get the 1/16th clearance needed to make the horseshoe fit. They were 1/4 inch aluminum but now they are not. 

The next step will be quite controversal but it must be done. I am going to have to cut the handle out of the center and make a new one. I am waiting until I have the end design good in my head before I make the cut though but I do not know why. My warantee is clearly gone now. 

If anyone can figure out how to install this thing without modifying the factory console or taking the shifter apart, I would love to know where you took magic lessons!


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

It doesn't look to bad to to take apart. I definitely would not cut my console.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

It is easy to take apart.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I sliced the sliding lever after making an aluminum screw in removeable center. I will figure out if I want to keep the same design with the finger indents soon. This will make the biggest impact on the ability to install the shifter.

Next up, cut the handle free. I will then be able to bolt the handle back together. I have to cut it because It wont budge. I do not want to screw it up completely so a quick cut on the bandsaw is in order.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

And there we have it. I need two 1/8" thick fender washers to space the lower bolt and The 5/8" bolt on the handle are temporary until I figure out a pretty solution but it can now be slid through the factory slots for the shifter. I will be able to bolt it to the floor, slide the console over and then assemble the top modified parts. 

It aint pretty yet but it will be soon!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Almost there. I changed the shifter up a little. I refabricated the grab bar and the sliders. It is much less loose. I ordered a rod end for the tranny cable and will be fabricating a factory looking handle to replace the knurled handle. I may do leather on the handle. For now, it will work fine enough with the temp bolt. I hope to be able to get it installed in the car by this weekend.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

One more re-wire to make things look even better and I got the rod end prepared for receiving the shifter cable.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

When you prank your wife so bad for April fools that your whole family thinks that you are actively quitting your job!!
I am so good!!!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

The shifter is installed and I tested that ti shifts into each gear correctly. Now I need to program the tcm and make some spacers for the console. The new shifter is taller than the factory one so I will have to add some extra padding to the tunnel to make up the space under the console. That is a dealable situation. I can add mass loaded vinyl and closed cell foam plus maybe some jute and carpet.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

This link is meant to document the best video that I have found tor getting tap shift to work. This sucker has basically everything you need. 





So after going over the video, I realized that the resistors that came with my tap shifter are wrong for my application. I ordered the shifter for the correct ecm/tcm but I am not using the BCM so it screws up the values I needed. 
I have ordered new resistors in order to make my own replacement module for the shifter that "SHOULD" make the tap shift work correctly.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Hell yeah! We have TUTD (tap up tap down)!!
I wired a simple circuit with the resistors and it finally goes into TUTD mode. Now I am charging the battery so I can test drive to make sure it works properly.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Well damn!
Guess who removed their factory E brake in order to test fit whether they can fit an 8 inch midbass (JLzr800cw) in the kick panel area?!?!?!

I am overjoyed to now have confirmation that I am able to fit my beloved 8 inch midbass in the kicks with absolutely no discomfort to the resting leg. Why would this be important??? well, I guess this means that I will now have space to put the 12inch sub in a small enclosure in the doors! WOW! I cannot believe that I am even saying that. I have dreamed about having an up front enclosure again ever since I put a JL 12w7 ported and down firing console enclosure in a friends crew cab dually. That thing was a beast! To even think that I am able to do it in this car makes me excited. I have every piece of equipment except a second sub amp.

So, as of now the plan is as follows-
Head unit- Joying 11.6 Snapdragon unit using Coax digital output
Processor-Helix DSP Pro receiving Coax Digital
Tweeter-Audiofrog GB10 in pillar or kicks
Mid- Audiofrog GB25 in pillar or kicks
Midbass-JL Zr800cw in the kicks
Front Subs-Stereo Integrity BM12 mkV in the fricking doors!!!!
Rear Sub/s-JBL W15GTImkII in most likely a ported enclosure or IB through the rear deck and rear seat center
Amps- Currently have three JL 300/2 amps and a JL 1000/1. Will likely run them until I replace with possibly Stereo integrity amps or something of that caliber (High caliber)


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I did some testing with Room Eq Wizard to determine what impact if any would mounting the midbass inverted in the kick panel would have. I an thinking about reverse mounting the drivers in the kicks to deal with some placement complexity issues. I may not need to but then again I may.

I also took a couple photos to show that the BM12mkV sub will fit in the area that is now occupied by the lower door panel (it is two part). While doing that fitting and measuring, something dawned upon me. Wouldn't you know it, the JL zr800 and the SI BM12 mkV have the same mounting depth! That is crazy!! When I say the same, I mean within .01 inch difference. The BM is 3.4" and the JL is 3.39" deep. I just find that interesting. Hell the funny thing is that I could technically squeeze the BM12 in the kick panel area. I have a circular cutout of the sub and it basically fits the area just enough that if I wanted to, I could run that bad boy down there!!🤔🤔

I sure wish that the BM12 mkV was capable of IB. That would not only make install simple but also reduce the amount of power needed. I may just call SI but I kind of already know what they are going to say.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Until I get the realdash app connection figured out, I will be monitoring my vitals with the Torque app. Below is what you will see from the drivers seat. 

Also, I finally got the factory console installed with the new shifter. I had to make a custom riser in the front and fabbed a 1 inch spacer in the rear. Unfortunately, I somehow moved the neutral safety switch during install or fabrication. This requires me to pull the shifter lever to the left in order to trigger the switch. This is kind of cool because it acts kind of like a ignition cutoff switch. It cannot stay gat way though. I will fix it tomorrow. It is nice to have gauges again though.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

ndm said:


> I sure wish that the BM12 mkV was capable of IB. That would not only make install simple but also reduce the amount of power needed. I may just call SI but I kind of already know what they are going to say.


If you play it above Fs like a midbass it will be fine, but you want to use as a subwoofer, so lots of eq cuts would be in order.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> If you play it above Fs like a midbass it will be fine, but you want to use as a subwoofer, so lots of eq cuts would be in order.


I will entertain the idea but there is going to be a pause in my plan. There may be a very big and significant life change coming my way! I will drive about 8 hrs tomorrow in order to inquire. This change may affect the drivers allocated to this ride!!!
My bucket list may be getting a huge check mark very very soon.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

………..


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Mild detour...first stop took an unexpected turn. Stay tuned this will be epic if I can pull it off!


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

ndm said:


> Mild detour...first stop took an unexpected turn. Stay tuned this will be epic if I can pull it off!


Whatever it is, it better be worth the suspense.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

😎👍_Thump_😎👍


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> Whatever it is, it better be worth the suspense.


If......I am able to execute this mission, I am telling you......it will be ....(could not find the most appropriate word)!!!

Edit- Think about the feeling that the Seals had upon putting a bullet in Bin Laden's head. <--- that caliber of elation for me.


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Take your time! You are in no rush! You got it!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Take your time! You are in no rush! You got it!


"Take your time"..... This is going to be truly very hard in this instance. I definitely want to spill the beans but I very much so do not want to Jinx the situation.....Continue to stay tuned for epic elation or an epic sadness. At this point in time everything hangs in the balance.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Hint... there is likely to be a blank canvass coming to my home soon.....that and a gaping charred hole in my pocket where my wallet resides!


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

I cant WAIT!!!!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Boy am I tired! My Dad and I drove to South Dakota and back in my daughter's Honda Civic. Perfect vehicle for scouting.....19 hr round trip. Must have been something important!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I have officially gone bonkers for real this time! I am sitting here in my living room/2nd office. It is a mess in here due to today's activities. I have Cult classic JBL subwoofers on the floor. I have speakers and amplifiers on the couch. There is all kinds of power wires and a kenwood excelon radio sitting there. For the normal person, it just looks like a mess. To the Car audio guys though, it looks like something all too familiar!!!!!

This afternoon there was a mad dash! I had to complete my mission and then head out to rendezvous with the local carmax. You see, they recently appraised my 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 with 66k miles for much more than I needed to accomplish my ultimate goal. While I feel bad that I just got rid of what was a very comfortable vehicle, a very fast vehicle, a vehicle that I had tons of fun driving and owned for 8 years, The ultimate goal must be accomplished.

I rapidly removed my awesome Audio gear from the Jeep and parted ways with it for a decent chunk of change. The stereo gear need not worry though. There is something bigger in store! To the average Joe Shmoe, it will not make sense what new home is in store for my beloved audio gear but be very aware, I move from dream to dream. I buy cars based on my passion for cars. In the next coming days or maybe weeks (depending), I will have the biggest vehicle on my bucket list right here in my driveway...Let the suspense begin!

Feel free to guess what I will be putting a down payment on in the morning. Maybe you will guess. Maybe you wont. It will be my daily driver if that helps.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

ndm said:


> I have officially gone bonkers for real this time! I am sitting here in my living room/2nd office. It is a mess in here due to today's activities. I have Cult classic JBL subwoofers on the floor. I have speakers and amplifiers on the couch. There is all kinds of power wires and a kenwood excelon radio sitting there. For the normal person, it just looks like a mess. To the Car audio guys though, it looks like something all too familiar!!!!!
> 
> This afternoon there was a mad dash! I had to complete my mission and then head out to rendezvous with the local carmax. You see, they recently appraised my 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 with 66k miles for much more than I needed to accomplish my ultimate goal. While I feel bad that I just got rid of what was a very comfortable vehicle, a very fast vehicle, a vehicle that I had tons of fun driving and owned for 8 years, The ultimate goal must be accomplished.
> 
> ...


Grand National?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> Grand National?


Nope


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Can we get a time frame?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

ndm said:


> Nope


1969 Stingray, convertible, 4-speed, 427 big block?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> 1969 Stingray, convertible, 4-speed, 427 big block?


Nope. But the car has to be able to fit at least my two 15 inch subwoofers. That should narrow it quite a bit.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Can we get a time frame?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As in when I will buy? Or age of the car?


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Yes.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Yes.


I put the money down today to keep them from selling while the check clears from the sale of my Jeep. I will be purchasing as soon as I have all the funds available. Then it has to be shipped to me from 9 hrs away though. 

As far as a timeframe or time range. We will just say that it is not a new car nor is it within 3 yrs old. That is all I will give ya.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Another two hints....

1.I will be putting my JL ZR800-CW's, the GB25's and the GB10 tweets in a single kick panel per side. I already know that they will easily fit.

2. The dual JBL W15GTImkII subs will be down firing for good reason.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Look I can wait for the unveiling, I’m just happy that you’re happy ha ha ha.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> Look I can wait for the unveiling, I’m just happy that you’re happy ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thank you. I am like a little kid waiting on a toy that has been ordered but not delivered. So excited that I feel like dropping another hint. 
This vehicle generation was only produced for 4 years and is wildly popular today. This is the reason why my pocketbook will get a reasonable sized hit.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

ndm said:


> Thank you. I am like a little kid waiting on a toy that has been ordered but not delivered. So excited that I feel like dropping another hint.
> This vehicle generation was only produced for 4 years and is wildly popular today. This is the reason why my pocketbook will get a reasonable sized hit.


 Newer GTO?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> Newer GTO?


Good guess but nope!
A GTO cannot fit a Gb10, GB25 and an 8 inch Jl midbass all together in one kickpanel. The newride has a decently large kickpanel area.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Lol I’m just going to wait it out, I’m married so I know how to wait…..


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> Lol I’m just going to wait it out, I’m married so I know how to wait…..


Lol.... us married guys definitely develope a different kind of patience dont we!

So for your comment I will provide another few clues to keep you in the game. 
-There are no power windows.
-It has two passenger doors
-The factory radio location must be modified to fit a modern radio.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

American made! *Big clue. *

If I wanted one brand new, I could buy one at a dealership tomorrow. *Huge clue!🚨*


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Charger / Challenger lol


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## hparker (Oct 16, 2020)

Bronco?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> Charger / Challenger lol


Nope... kicks too small.🧐 I think. Although I never really saw the kickpanels in the old ones.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

hparker said:


> Bronco?


Nope. Sorry, the glove does not fit.... you must acquit! Lol hopefully you got that reference!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

^^^^. Ha ha ha, oh yessssssssssss.


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## hparker (Oct 16, 2020)




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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Okay, I will make it more fair. Since every one is losing interest in my little guessing game, I will add the biggest hint of all. 

The vehicle that I have now put a downpayment on and am waiting for the final financing rates to come back for .................is on the following website.


https://www.classiccarssd.com/cars-for-sale



So there you go. The answer is there but the haystack is now much much smaller!


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

That made it to easy - Buick enclave!


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

ndm said:


> Okay, I will make it more fair. Since every one is losing interest in my little guessing game, I will add the biggest hint of all.
> 
> The vehicle that I have now put a downpayment on and am waiting for the final financing rates to come back for .................is on the following website.
> 
> ...


Corvette.


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## alpinem (Nov 25, 2006)

You made it too easy


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

alpinem said:


> You made it too easy
> View attachment 332048


Holy crap! $5000? For what is essentially a scooter?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> Holy crap! $5000? For what is essentially a scooter?


I bet you it sells though for close to $5k.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> Corvette.


Nope... not really at all nor have I ever been into corvettes. I honestly dislike them even more now with the redesign. I am not a supercar guy and the new vette looks more like a supercar tgan ever now.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Theslaking said:


> That made it to easy - Buick enclave!


Yup.......that is not the father of the baby!!!


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

ndm said:


> Nope... not really at all nor have I ever been into corvettes. I honestly dislike them even more now with the redesign. I am not a supercar guy and the new vette looks more like a supercar tgan ever now.


Camaro?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> Camaro?


Nope. Which brings me to two even bigger hints. 

1.The vehicle you seek is located with the first 5 of the 9 pages of cars for sale.
2.The vehicle was not manufactured within the last 20years. 

Now if you really think about my previous clues, you will be able to figure it out.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

You guys are not willing here. Someone on another forum guessed it already! You guys are better than that. 

Since I just signed the majority of the lump sum payment over from the bank, I will start giving even bigger clues.... I mean the thing is almost funded fully for crying out loud!

Random sketch Photo Hint-


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## alpinem (Nov 25, 2006)

Is it red?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

alpinem said:


> Is it red?


Nope


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## alpinem (Nov 25, 2006)

I had to be white then


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## alpinem (Nov 25, 2006)

Or maybe orange


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

alpinem said:


> Or maybe orange





alpinem said:


> I had to be white then


One of these is correct.


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## alpinem (Nov 25, 2006)

Depends on the sub install:

standard enclosure then white.

cut through into the bed then orange.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

alpinem said:


> Depends on the sub install:
> 
> standard enclosure then white.
> 
> cut through into the bed then orange.


There will be no cutting of this ride. The value of this vehicle must not be messed with and cutting holes would certainly kill what I expect to be a hefty profit in a couple years if I so choose to resell it (Not at all likely). Does that narrow it down for you? Tomorrow the last of the cash will be wired and the deal should be done. I expect it to soon show sold on the website!


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## alpinem (Nov 25, 2006)

White it is then


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

alpinem said:


> White it is then


Cmon man.....Call it out. All the funds are sent now so it will be mine. You just need claim your rightful spot as the person that guessed it!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

1972 Chevy Blazer ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> 1972 Chevy Blazer ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


WHAT!!!

How dare you assume that a middle aged gentleman like myself would drive such a vehicle! I mean a 1972 Chevy K5 Blazer is such a loud, crappy riding and slow vehicle! Only a total doofus would sell a 2013 daily driven 60k mile Jeep Grand cherokee SRT8 in order to daily drive a fricking mostly restored 50 year old vehicle. TheBlazer would be so nonsensical for a daily driver. I would know. I recently drove one in another state! It rode like crap! It was ballz slow. I was aweful! I would have to be a total Idiot to trade such luxury for such a loser mobile!

I mean a Blazer, really!?!?! LOL!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

She is quite the beauty and nope I would have readily sold my Ram to get into something this clean lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> She is quite the beauty and nope I would have readily sold my Ram to get into something this clean lol.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah, I sure wish one of those would arrive on a trailer to my house. I would be so happy!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Looks like a white, 1972 Chevy K5 Blazer disappeared from the dealer website. That's weird right?


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

What’s really weird is I just got an email saying my K5 Blazer is on its way to my home, hmmmmmmmmm lol.


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## alpinem (Nov 25, 2006)

I would say you need a better bucket list but I have a vehicle that is something I like and others think I'm crazy to call it my dream car....truck actually. It took a long time to find and once I did I jumped on it. I'm so blessed to have such an understanding wife.
Glad you found this to be able to check it of the list. Congrats


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## SPAZ (Jan 7, 2009)

That ride is nice!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> What’s really weird is I just got an email saying my K5 Blazer is on its way to my home, hmmmmmmmmm lol.


Better not be a white one from South Dakota!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

alpinem said:


> I would say you need a better bucket list but I have a vehicle that is something I like and others think I'm crazy to call it my dream car....truck actually. It took a long time to find and once I did I jumped on it. I'm so blessed to have such an understanding wife.
> Glad you found this to be able to check it of the list. Congrats


My wife does not understand. ...but No one ever understands my craziness! They just get used ito my crazy.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

SPAZ said:


> That ride is nice!


I think so. Definitely needs mo powwa though!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Power can always be added and hey it’s nice to think outside the box vehicle wise anymore lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I found out I have some large delivery coming Tuesday! I wonder what it is!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Washer/dryer combo ?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

Coppertone said:


> Washer/dryer combo ?


Yeah, I chose a shiney white Chevrolet model!


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## bills72sj (Jun 1, 2021)

That is seriously custom now. I would have not been brave enough to hack into the glove box door. I would have compromised on the size of the unit based on the space available. I cut a big hole in a spare dash to fit two full sized DIN DSP's way back when.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

bills72sj said:


> That is seriously custom now. I would have not been brave enough to hack into the glove box door. I would have compromised on the size of the unit based on the space available. I cut a big hole in a spare dash to fit two full sized DIN DSP's way back when.
> View attachment 332526
> View attachment 332527


Fortunately, the stuff getting modified is the 2nd set that I own and it was in such bad shape that I dont feel bad modding it. I have the best looking original dash in my Grannie's Regal still. Dont forget, I own two of these.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

bills72sj said:


> I would have not been brave enough to hack into the glove box door.


How can you live out your dream if you limit yourself. 

Sawzall, goals, and no regrets equal great builds!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

And there you have it- I have begun another build thread for my new ride here- Bucket list!! My 1972 Chevrolet Blazer dream truck build
Teaser pic-


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

So the planning begins. The posterboard is an exact trace of my drivers side kick panel even though the photo is of the passenger side. I have a few I options that I am considering for the kickpanels. It looks like i am going to be getting rid of the fresh air vents in order to vent my 8 inch midbass. I could run it in a sealed enclosure but it would have to be quite hefty. I will likely have to do a different parking brake. If I do a different parking brake, I have tons of space on both sides.

I would prefer to make kicks with a big removeable baffle that can be reconfigured for driver changes in the future. Whatever i decide, it has to be easily removeable to periodically clear any debris that makes its way into the cowl vents and down to the fresh air vents in the kick panels.

I refuse to cut any holes in this sucker. If I wanted to though, one clearance hole would make it so that I would not have to remove the parking brake.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I forgot to mention, I may be mounting the midbass inverted. There are a few reasons for this but most of all is for aesthetics. I would have a formed grill to make it not stand out.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I am starting to feel bad that I have not given the Regal much love since I got the 72 Blazer. Good news though, I am starting a new job with a very, very significant upward boost in pay. While I may not have as much time as I used to for a little bit, I will definitely have more funds to use on both projects. I will definitely find the time though.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I got tired of dicking around with walmart batteries so last night I auctioned off a kidney and purchased a group78 Odyssey battery for the Regal. Funny thing is I used to work for Enersys, the company that makes them. Back then I could have had one for half price.


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