# "Speaker wire" vs electrical wire. What's the difference?



## lectraplayer

I'm not sure if this needs to go here or in Technical, but I see a lot of people pushing "speaker cable" for installs, though I have a LOT of THHN electrical wire. I have also seen a video where the guy tested several brands of amp power cable against welding cable. Surprisingly, the "cheaper brands" (including that he got from Wally World, Scosche I belive) come out on top. What would be the difference in sound quality though? Any?


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## RRizz

If the wire is sized properly for the task, the only difference I'm aware of is flexibility, but I'm no expert. (im assuming you are talking about stranded wire, as well). Some will say more strands are better for a whole host of reasons, but it comes down to flexibility, IMO.
I am interested to see how many "pixie dust" answers you get, though.


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## Theslaking

One of my work trucks has had thhn in it for 10 years. No difference. The wire is flexible enough as your using small gauge. The one thing is even though the jacket is stiff it scraps easily on the metal edges of car bodies.


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## lectraplayer

That's pretty much what I was thinking, not much difference in sound though you may have to watch the installation to make sure the insulation doesn't degrade. Still, I hear some types of wire "sound" better than others, such as one claim where the wire has a hollow core that helps it carry high frequencies better.


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## RRizz

horseshit. I guess the hollowed portion is where the high frequencies "tunnel directly to the speaker through the center unobstructed, and less likely to pick up any interference":laugh:


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## Hillbilly SQ

As long as the wire is stranded of at least decent quality and the jacket will survive the install you're good to go. I like using 4-way flat trailer wire in my installs for speaker wires. If tapping into factory wiring in the dash (not near the sin people make it out to be as long as it will carry the wattage) you can even get 5-way wire and use the blue wire for remote turn-on


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## rob feature

wireless connections have the lowest noise


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## Porsche

gotta love these threads


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## Theslaking

This thread is legit. Really. The original question is one that makes perfect sense. If they are both copper wire why is one not used for the other. It should not get turned into one of "these threads". 

Probably will though....


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## Hillbilly SQ

I'm sure a lot of people on here do use regular electrical wire and just don't admit it on this forum:laugh:


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## Theslaking

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'm sure a lot of people on here do use regular electrical wire and just don't admit it on this forum:laugh:


I had an disagreement with someone once. I bought some used Kimber Kable for cheaper than regular speaker wire. I installed and there was no difference other than the bulkiness. Ultimately I got rid of it because the color. I was going to put it in the above work truck but went with thhn. He's said his HT was perfect sounding using it and he would never use solid or stranded electrical wire in his system. It was like stacking trailers and calling it a mansion. So I asked him if he watched his movies using internet via a cable company. He said yeah. I said how do you think they get the signal you use to your house? Sure isn't 16 wire, 80 bagillion strand Kimber Kable.


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## RRizz

rob feature said:


> wireless connections have the lowest noise


and travel faster


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## Grinder

Good question (despite any derisive responses). Basically, wire is wire. However, there are many important considerations: Conductor material (for example, aluminum, copper, CCA, tinned ...and OFC, which seems rather pointless in Earth's oxygen-rich atmosphere); ampacity/wire gauge/length; flexibility; insulation/jacket composition, thickness, color and voltage rating; number of conductors (in the case of multi-conductor cable); overall thickness/diameter; age and/or apparent condition of both the conductor surface and the insulation/jacket material(s)...

THHN is great, though it can be a bit on the stiff side, and the outer (gasoline and oil resistant) jacket can be easily damaged/abraded (and/or bind-up/catch) when "pulling" in less than ideal circumstances.


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## RRizz

Theslaking said:


> This thread is legit. Really. The original question is one that makes perfect sense. If they are both copper wire why is one not used for the other. It should not get turned into one of "these threads".
> 
> Probably will though....


 I would venture a guess and say that "electrical" wire can be used for speakers, but not the other way around..... I would assume that speaker wire would not be rated to handle the voltage.
someone correct me if im off base, here.


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## Grinder

RRizz said:


> I would venture a guess and say that "electrical" wire can be used for speakers, but not the other way around..... I would assume that speaker wire would not be rated to handle the voltage.
> someone correct me if im off base, here.


Great point. You are correct. While a given speaker wire might actually be safe for a given voltage (above that of audio circuits, for example), in the absence of a voltage rating, we really have no way of knowing with any certainty, and should therefore avoid such usage.


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## Hillbilly SQ

Thanks for bringing that up about not using speaker wire for a/c electrical use. I never really thought of that but makes sense. I'll use speaker wire in 12v dc applications where 18g isn't quite enough though since normally I have 16g speaker wire readily available but only keep 18g hookup wire on hand since it's all I need most of the time for processors, turn-on wires, LED trailer lights, boat electronics that usually only require a 3a fuse, etc.


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## Bizarroterl

Actually a hollow core wire is "better" due to skin effect. Skin effect is with higher frequencies the signal/current is carried closer to the surface of the wire. The more surface the greater the signal carrying capability. The only caveat is skin effect occurs at frequencies well above what you can hear unless you're a super bat and if that is the case you're not interested in car audio.


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## Hillbilly SQ

Bizarroterl said:


> Actually a hollow core wire is "better" due to skin effect. Skin effect is with higher frequencies the signal/current is carried closer to the surface of the wire. The more surface the greater the signal carrying capability. The only caveat is skin effect occurs at frequencies well above what you can hear unless you're a super bat and if that is the case you're not interested in car audio.


So makes sense when vaguely explained by a marketing department but not practical in practice if you're a human whos hearing probably rolls off before 20kI know when I go out to do rta work every dog in my neighborhood starts barking.


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## slacktide

One way that nice high end wire "sounds" better... is that it is generally less stiff and less likely to vibrate against panels and buzz. I hate chasing vibrations after an install. Wrapping in fleece tape (search ebay) helps a lot.

Electrically, I lol at people who claim to hear a difference.


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## Justin Zazzi

I use solid-core (no strands at all!) CAT5 cable for my right-rear surround speaker in my home theater, and lamp cord for my center channel.

If I didn't mention it, nobody would ever know.
For audio frequencies, wire is wire.
...unless it's not, then it's marketing.

Just choose the stuff that's easier to install.

Also, I like RRizz's point about voltage rating and insulation and such.


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## ckirocz28

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I know when I go out to do rta work every dog in my neighborhood starts barking.


Murphy's Law at work, my version of this includes every ******* with no muffler within 20 miles driving by my house.


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## dcfis

ckirocz28 said:


> Hillbilly SQ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know when I go out to do rta work every dog in my neighborhood starts barking.
> 
> 
> 
> Murphy's Law at work, my version of this includes every ******* with no muffler within 20 miles driving by my house.
Click to expand...

Mine is a 5 man lawn crew shows up with weed eaters and poorly maintained zero turns blazing away or low frequency pressure waves from the massive military artillery base 35 miles away


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## ckirocz28

dcfis said:


> Mine is a 5 man lawn crew shows up with weed eaters and poorly maintained zero turns blazing away or low frequency pressure waves from the massive military artillery base 35 miles away


You should record that artillery.


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## dcfis

ckirocz28 said:


> dcfis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is a 5 man lawn crew shows up with weed eaters and poorly maintained zero turns blazing away or low frequency pressure waves from the massive military artillery base 35 miles away
> 
> 
> 
> You should record that artillery.
Click to expand...

You can hear barely a low frequency but you windows shake and your door to your house bangs against the sill it's kinda trippy that that much pulse wave comes from such a barely audible sound


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## JimmyDee

lectraplayer said:


> I'm not sure if this needs to go here or in Technical, but I see a lot of people pushing "speaker cable" for installs, though I have a LOT of THHN electrical wire. I have also seen a video where the guy tested several brands of amp power cable against welding cable. Surprisingly, the "cheaper brands" (including that he got from Wally World, Scosche I belive) come out on top. What would be the difference in sound quality though? Any?


Are you wanting to use your THHN for power wire or speaker wire?

I'm not trying to boast, but I am an Electrical Engineer. Wire is wire. As long as it's copper, you're fine using anything.
The only caveat is; make sure it is properly sized (gague) for the current it is carrying.

The reason most guys use stranded power cable, is because:
1. It's softer and more flexible to route through a car chassis.
2. It looks cooler, and makes a more esthetically pleasing install.
3. It fits better into accessories (fuse blocks, crimps, etc.)

The reason most guys use stranded speaker cable, is because:
See points 1 & 2 above.

Everything you read about 'magic' speaker cable is pure *Marketing *********.
Wire is wire. As long as it's copper.

It doesn't magically carry higher frequencies on the outer core. It doesn't make your sub sound lower. It has nothing to do with that. 
Your amp and your speakers are responsible for creating the sound... not the wire.

It is just wire. It carries current from your amplifier to your speakers. Nothing else.
As long as it's properly sized to carry the current, it'll work fine. No matter the price or style.

Think of it this way: Electricity is like water. (the below description is for illustration purpose):
Voltage is similar to a specific amount of water. Let's call it: 1 cubic inch.
Amperage is the speed at which that 1 cubic inch needs to travel through a water pipe (similar to PSI).
If you take that 1 cubic inch of water, and try to ram it through a straw at high pressure (high amperage draw), then the straw will burst. 
Same thing with wire, except the narrow straw is similar to a smaller guage of wire.
This is measured in resistance. Too much resistance creates heat... which ends up in your car starting on fire.

Now, if you take that 1 cubic inch of water, and put it through a 1 inch diameter pipe. It'll flow fine. No resistance. No back pressure. No exploding pipes... or flaming cables.

If you take that 1 cubic inch of water, and put it through a gold plated, hollow core, magic wand pipe, with braided jacketing, and fancy connectors on each end with colored heat shrink... you will still get 1 cubic inch of water travelling through it. Doesn't make the water clearer, or taste better, or sparkle with amazing highs or deep lows.

Water and electricity are similar in that sense... they don't care what the conduit is. They just want to get to the end, as fast as they can. 

Copper wire is copper wire. As long as it's 100% copper, you're golden.
Speaking of golden... the only thing better than copper, is silver! 
Gold is the third best conductor (silver, then copper, then gold)

With all that said; I will also admit that I use Knukonceptz power and speaker wire. 
Not because they make my highs sound higher or my bass sound deeper... but because they are easy to work with, and they look cool.


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## Grinder

jimmydee said:


> Are you wanting to use your THHN for power wire or speaker wire?
> 
> I'm not trying to boast, but I am an Electrical Engineer. Wire is wire. As long as it's copper, you're fine using anything.
> The only caveat is; make sure it is properly sized (gague) for the current it is carrying.
> 
> The reason most guys use stranded power cable, is because:
> 1. It's softer and more flexible to route through a car chassis.
> 2. It looks cooler, and makes a more esthetically pleasing install.
> 3. It fits better into accessories (fuse blocks, crimps, etc.)
> 
> The reason most guys use stranded speaker cable, is because:
> See points 1 & 2 above.
> 
> Everything you read about 'magic' speaker cable is pure *Marketing *********.
> Wire is wire. As long as it's copper.
> 
> It doesn't magically carry higher frequencies on the outer core. It doesn't make your sub sound lower. It has nothing to do with that.
> Your amp and your speakers are responsible for creating the sound... not the wire.
> 
> It is just wire. It carries current from your amplifier to your speakers. Nothing else.
> As long as it's properly sized to carry the current, it'll work fine. No matter the price or style.
> 
> Think of it this way: Electricity is like water. (the below description is for illustration purpose):
> Voltage is similar to a specific amount of water. Let's call it: 1 cubic inch.
> Amperage is the speed at which that 1 cubic inch needs to travel through a water pipe (similar to PSI).
> If you take that 1 cubic inch of water, and try to ram it through a straw at high pressure (high amperage draw), then the straw will burst.
> Same thing with wire, except the narrow straw is similar to a smaller guage of wire.
> This is measured in resistance. Too much resistance creates heat... which ends up in your car starting on fire.
> 
> Now, if you take that 1 cubic inch of water, and put it through a 1 inch diameter pipe. It'll flow fine. No resistance. No back pressure. No exploding pipes... or flaming cables.
> 
> If you take that 1 cubic inch of water, and put it through a gold plated, hollow core, magic wand pipe, with braided jacketing, and fancy connectors on each end with colored heat shrink... you will still get 1 cubic inch of water travelling through it.
> 
> Water and electricity are similar in that sense... they don't care what the conduit is. They just want to get to the end, as fast as they can.
> 
> Copper wire is copper wire. As long as it's 100% copper, you're golden.
> Speaking of golden... the only thing better than copper, is silver!
> Gold is the third best conductor (silver, then copper, then gold)
> 
> With all that said; I will also admit that I use Knukonceptz power and speaker wire.
> Not because they make my highs sound higher or my bass sound deeper... but because they are easy to work with, and they look cool.


While it has been mentioned previously, one might be remiss not to address the importance of wire/cable insulation type (and associated ratings, for example, "gasoline and oil resistant") and voltage rating, in such an authoritative post.

It might also be noted that the flexibility of cable/cord/wiring is not simply a matter of installation convenience and appearance.


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## bluesman1

As an aside ... here's what can happen to OFC speaker wire over the years. These are Street Wires or Sound King OFC 16 AWG speaker wire that's been in my vehicle now since 1996. The jacket is still in great shape, as flexible as ever. But you can see the discoloration/oxidation under the jacket. These stripped ends were in a crossover that had set screws. They were still in fairly shiny condition when I pulled them from the crossover. The new crossover requires spade connections so I gave the wires a fresh strip and that's when I noticed the discoloration of the strands as well as underneath the jacket. The amplifier also uses set screw connections. I checked those cables as well and they were also clean where there were already stripped but could see the oxidation under the jacket there as well. Same goes for inside the doors. 











It's likely that outgassing of the PVC jacket and the presence of moisture/humidity caused this over time. I will eventually replace these wires but a soak of the freshly stripped ends in a vinegar and salt solution (followed by water and baking soda to neutralize) removed the oxidation on the stripped ends. After getting the stripped ends shiny, I crimped the new connectors on. As long as the wire is oxidation free where the connections are made there probably isn't much of a problem, but whether that's the case or not, this will buy me some time to replace the wires. I guess I can't complain since they've been in service for almost 25 years.


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## Theslaking

I believe oxidation has no effect on the conductivity of copper other that point of contact. So even if your wires are completely green inside they still work similarly to new. I read a article with measurements many years ago.


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## seafish

Theslaking said:


> I believe oxidation has no effect on the conductivity of copper other that point of contact. So even if your wires are completely green inside they still work similarly to new. I read a article with measurements many years ago.


This MIGHT be true with a speaker wire, but is defintely NOT true with applications using higher current. Corrosion simply leads to higher resistance ...whether or not higher resistance degrades the signal in a SPEAKER wire is open to interpretation, but in other circumstances and circuits I think it is safe to say that corrosion is not acceptable or necessarily safe.


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## Grinder

seafish said:


> This MIGHT be true with a speaker wire, but is defintely NOT true with applications using higher current. Corrosion simply leads to higher resistance ...whether or not higher resistance degrades the signal in a SPEAKER wire is open to interpretation, but in other circumstances and circuits I think it is safe to say that corrosion is not acceptable or necessarily safe.


I think you've misunderstood the point, which specifically involves surface oxidation along the length of individual copper strands of a cable, but where those strands have remained free (or were cleaned) of oxidation at point of contact.


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## Theslaking

What I was thinking is that copper doesn't corrode in a typical sense. It oxidizes (and still technically corrodes) Oxidation typically spreads across the surface and does not work its way inward quickly. With how we use copper it doesn't corrode / oxidize quickly enough to effect us negatively unless an additional chemical reaction is present.

There was barely enough additional resistance from surface corrosion to affect the passing of electrical signals. However it was significant at the point of contact.


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## seafish

Grinder said:


> I think you've misunderstood the point, which specifically involves surface oxidation along the length of individual copper strands of a cable, but where those strands have remained free (or were cleaned) of oxidation at point of contact.



IF you are simply talking about corrosion on the surface of the entire wire underneath the wire jacket, you might well be correct. That being said, I know for fact that corrosion along the length of each strand of multi strand wire , DEFINITELY increases overall wire resistance and affects the ability of that wire to pass current. Of course, whether or not that increased resistance affects the SOUND of a speaker is unknown to me.


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## seafish

Theslaking said:


> What I was thinking is that copper doesn't corrode in a typical sense. It oxidizes (and still technically corrodes) Oxidation typically spreads across the surface and does not work its way inward quickly. With how we use copper it doesn't corrode / oxidize quickly enough to effect us negatively unless an additional chemical reaction is present.
> 
> There was barely enough additional resistance from surface corrosion to affect the passing of electrical signals. However it was significant at the point of contact.


I have seen more then several 12 volt battery wires that corrode INTERNALLY to the entire multi strand battery cable. This is actually a fairly common problem with Dodge Ram diesel 3rd gen trucks. Whether it is a result of the quality of the copper used or due to overall dual battery system design, I do NOT know, but it DEFINITELY increases the resistance of the 1/0 crossover cableand leads to the passenger side battery being overcharged and boiling over as the cable does not properly pass charge current to the drivers side battery. IF/when you slit the crossover cable insulation back along its length you can see corrosion not only on the surface but also internal to the cable. Of course we are talking about around 100 amps or more at times!!!


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## Grinder

seafish said:


> I have seen more then several 12 volt battery wires that corrode INTERNALLY to the entire multi strand battery cable. This is actually a fairly common problem with Dodge Ram diesel 3rd gen trucks. Whether it is a result of the quality of the copper used or due to overall dual battery system design, I do NOT know, but it DEFINITELY increases the resistance of the 1/0 crossover cableand leads to the passenger side battery being overcharged and boiling over as the cable does not properly pass charge current to the drivers side battery. Of course we are talking about around 100 amps or more at times!!!


As Theslaking stated above:


> ...unless an *additional chemical reaction* is present.


...for example, battery acid.


Again, yours is not an example of surface oxidation.

I lived off-grid for almost 20 years, where I designed, built and serviced a number of off-grid power systems, each with sizable lead-acid battery banks; so I know first-hand what sort of corrosion you're referring to; and I know that under-hood conditions can be even worse.


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## Theslaking

I definitely see strand to strand transfer being a real problem as well now that you mention it. It may have been in that article and I forgot. That's why I mentioned I read it a while ago.


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## Hillbilly SQ

One time I had a big bass boat with trolling motor wiring in it that was totally caked in green under the jacket. Came in it OEM in 1996 and this was 2011ish when I saw this (bought used in 2010). That couldn't have been good. My friend has a 1995 model of the same brand (Charger) that probably has trolling motor wire in it that looks the same way. I'll be paying close attention to the trolling motor wiring in my 2016 Tracker! And I know others besides me have done electrical work on an older trailer, boat, or anything with older wiring and been greeted by wire that was literally cooked. Most likely heated up and cooked because of a bad connection.


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## Hillbilly SQ

ckirocz28 said:


> Murphy's Law at work, my version of this includes every ******* with no muffler within 20 miles driving by my house.


Just bumping the rta comic relief here...there was a black helipopter hovering over the park that I live right on the edge of while trying to rta. No telling what they were looking at. They fly over here at least a couple times a day. This is meth country but the code seems to be if you don't mess with them they won't mess with you. In other words what you don't know won't hurt you. And they know the honest people are well armed


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## lynchknot

I'm wondering what you guys think of this flat braided speaker wire? The positive and negative are braided together. 

Is this not a good idea for an automotive application? One problem is that it's 25 to 30 feet long and I would not know how to cut to size and pull the braid out to terminate the ends.


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## Grinder

lynchknot said:


> I'm wondering what you guys think of this flat braided speaker wire? The positive and negative are braided together.
> 
> Is this not a good idea for an automotive application? One problem is that it's 25 to 30 feet long and I would not know how to cut to size and pull the braid out to terminate the ends.


That appears to be an Audiophile Snake. 

Seriously though, I doubt that any actual advantage of this type of cable would outweigh its premium cost, application limitations, and/or potential for misadventure.

https://mniec.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/snake-oil-of-the-year-award-audiophile-cables/


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## Lanson

I always use Monoprice cable these days, pretty much won't build without it. Specifically, I use the sheathed in-wall type. It makes perfect sense in a car to use sheathed wire. I love the low cost, good flexibility, easy pulling, and definite security in reducing damaged wires with the slick sheath. It takes quite a snag to get past it. For the price, it is truly hard to beat, especially in 250+ lengths. I've even taken the thick stuff (12 gauge) and used it as power wire on light duty applications, like to power a processor or micro-amp.


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## Hillbilly SQ

I used 16/4 sheathed Monoprice wire to replace the spliced together mess caused by me being cheap and using what I had laying around. I split one piece into pairs to go into the doors. Insulation on the wire itself seems to be really tough. Was going to get 18/4 and double up for the doors but decided get 16g. All my dash needs is 18g but 16g makes me feel better over time.


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## Lanson

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I used 16/4 sheathed Monoprice wire to replace the spliced together mess caused by me being cheap and using what I had laying around. I split one piece into pairs to go into the doors. Insulation on the wire itself seems to be really tough. Was going to get 18/4 and double up for the doors but decided get 16g. All my dash needs is 18g but 16g makes me feel better over time.



Yeah that's the stuff! Not only is it tough and sturdy, but also still very flexible and easy to snake in even the worst upside down U-turn type door accordion boot. 



16/4 is a great all-rounder. It might even be cheaper per foot than trailer wire!


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## nyquistrate

fourthmeal said:


> It might even be cheaper per foot than trailer wire!


 oke:


Hillbilly SQ said:


> .


 :surprised: :laugh:


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## lynchknot

Grinder said:


> That appears to be an Audiophile Snake.
> 
> Seriously though, I doubt that any actual advantage of this type of cable would outweigh its premium cost, application limitations, and/or potential for misadventure.
> 
> https://mniec.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/snake-oil-of-the-year-award-audiophile-cables/



Well, I purchased it at the Goodwill outlet store which sells items by the pound. So it was probably less than $2. 

I like that it can lay flat under the carpet. 

I guess I would worry if it could short into itself from movement.


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## WhiplashMotorbreath

bluesman1 said:


> As an aside ... here's what can happen to OFC speaker wire over the years. These are Street Wires or Sound King OFC 16 AWG speaker wire that's been in my vehicle now since 1996. The jacket is still in great shape, as flexible as ever. But you can see the discoloration/oxidation under the jacket. These stripped ends were in a crossover that had set screws. They were still in fairly shiny condition when I pulled them from the crossover. The new crossover requires spade connections so I gave the wires a fresh strip and that's when I noticed the discoloration of the strands as well as underneath the jacket. The amplifier also uses set screw connections. I checked those cables as well and they were also clean where there were already stripped but could see the oxidation under the jacket there as well. Same goes for inside the doors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's likely that outgassing of the PVC jacket and the presence of moisture/humidity caused this over time. I will eventually replace these wires but a soak of the freshly stripped ends in a vinegar and salt solution (followed by water and baking soda to neutralize) removed the oxidation on the stripped ends. After getting the stripped ends shiny, I crimped the new connectors on. As long as the wire is oxidation free where the connections are made there probably isn't much of a problem, but whether that's the case or not, this will buy me some time to replace the wires. I guess I can't complain since they've been in service for almost 25 years.


I am no pro installer. but I after I cut the wire and strip the end, I put a little liquid electrical tape around the insulation end i just cut, and then a little heat shrink over that. 
Then put the wire end in the crossover set screw, then cover the wire end and crossover connection with sensor safe rtv. 
wire that have spade terminals for speaker connection. get the same treatment using terminals with heat shrink plastic cover, and then connect the wire to the speaker and rtv the open terminal end.
Keeps the wire and connection from corrosion , This always fixed friends marine wiring.
In vehicles I only get this crazy when the parts are in doors, or under carpet that might get wet. or if the part is hard to get to, to trouble shoot ,service. 
Pulling glass out or a dash because of a quwstionable connection isn't fun. and the extra minute per wire to do this is, worth it. 
My wiring in one of my vehicles is 25 years old. and the wire ends look like I just stripped them, after removing the rtv.
Wish the the parts of the crossover and speaker cone surround lasted as long. ugg


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## Gary S

"If the wire is sized properly for the task, the only difference I'm aware of is flexibility, but I'm no expert. (im assuming you are talking about stranded wire, as well). Some will say more strands are better for a whole host of reasons, *but it comes down to flexibility*, IMO."

- Perfect answer. I prefer hi strand count, rope lay type wire, it's more flexible and easier to install / work with. I would also recommend 100% copper. Stay away from cheap CCA


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