# 13w7 not what I expected



## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

I bought a 13w7 about a month ago, paired it with a brand new HiFonics x2200.1d...built a 2.3ft^3 sealed enclosure for it, power & ground are 0/1 wiring, etc etc, I was expecting this to be way louder.
the amp is CEA compliant and pushes [email protected] and [email protected] so I figured [email protected]
why isn't this thing very loud? I have no headlight dimming so ik it's not starving for voltage, my stock speakers overpower this woofer. 
By the way the car is a 2005 Acura TL. I would have expected the sub to overpower the stock components AT LEAST. what could be wrong?

DON'T tell me to "port that *****". I drive a TL. trunk space is already low...on top of that I do a lot of 700+ mile trips in my car that require me to pack a lot of stuff in the trunk I.E. grills, tents, bags, coolers...not porting this sub.


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## BaasTurbo (Aug 27, 2009)

How much excursion is it making? That amp is way overrated.


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

BaasTurbo said:


> How much excursion is it making? That amp is way overrated.


I don't know how to measure excursion, do I have to play a test tone or anything? And how do you figure the amp is over rated? I know that's the common belief but I've seen them clamped and usually they're not over rated, they're just rated at 14.4v. Most every hifonics amp I've seen clamped from 2010 - present has either been ~100 watts over rated to even 35 watts underrated. Either way it's inaudible..


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

BaasTurbo said:


> How much excursion is it making? That amp is way overrated.


How do you measure excursion? Do I need to play a test tone?

Have you ever seen proof of this amp being overrated? I've seen a lot of hifonics amps clamped, and while they're not overrated, they're rated at 14.4v. Even so, as long as theyre made from 2010 - present, they're (from what I've seen) at worst 100w overrated, once we clamped a brutus 1200 and it put out 1260w.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

I have to say it is a concern that a $300 amplifier from a brand currently shown to have a tendency to inflate numbers a bit is being used to power a $1,000 - $1,300 subwoofer - IMO, this was just not the right decision. If even "some" HiFonics amps are being tested and showing anything less than their rated power as opposed to much more like Alpines, JLs, ZEDs, and other brands with consistently proven cred, then I'm just not trusting your amp to be up to the task.

That said, I should hope it's at least giving it 1,000 watts. If you are hearing NOTHING, then something is up. If it is just not SPL-enough for you, keep in mind maybe you are more suited to a totally SPL-oriented subwoofer designed to be just plain loud (and probably, as such, distorted). The W7 will get loud, but it's actually SQ-capable and blends. You could arguably find a high SPL number but not feel it is loud because it is doing its job of blending into your full-range music. While it's not the case nearly 100% of the time, I've heard your comment before from folks who think their subwoofer should be louder when in fact is loud but blending with their music: they comment that heir speakers are overpowering their sub. 

Assuming you purchased this JL subwoofer from an authorized dealer, why not call up JL Audio or the dealer and ask them for some advice? Got any friends with a different-brand amplifier you can hook it up to for a comparison? My recommendation: get a ZED Minotaur II or a JL HD 1000/1 or something else with true balls. I have hooked up a W7 in a sealed box to a ZED Minotaur II and the bass was nothing short of chest crushing.

Another thing. If your box effectively seals off the trunk from the cabin, you're going to reduce the bass you get. Moved two subs in the back of an SUV to the back of a car... same box, same amp. Massive, massive SPL difference in the car (much, much lower) - could barely hear the subwoofers, total disappointment. The box basically fit so snug it sealed off the trunk from the cabin. Solved that with a new box... boom. 

So many things can be going wrong. Oh, and you don't need to measure excursion. Look at the subwoofer. Is it moving at all, is it moving at what seems like full travel at a loud volume? Are your gains set so that you are not sending a distorted signal? Did you accidentally wire the voice coils improperly by switching polarity? Troubleshoot, bro.


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

sirbOOm said:


> I have to say it is a concern that a $300 amplifier from a brand currently shown to have a tendency to inflate numbers a bit is being used to power a $1,000 - $1,300 subwoofer - IMO, this was just not the right decision. If even "some" HiFonics amps are being tested and showing anything less than their rated power as opposed to much more like Alpines, JLs, ZEDs, and other brands with consistently proven cred, then I'm just not trusting your amp to be up to the task.
> 
> That said, I should hope it's at least giving it 1,000 watts. If you are hearing NOTHING, then something is up. If it is just not SPL-enough for you, keep in mind maybe you are more suited to a totally SPL-oriented subwoofer designed to be just plain loud (and probably, as such, distorted). The W7 will get loud, but it's actually SQ-capable and blends. You could arguably find a high SPL number but not feel it is loud because it is doing its job of blending into your full-range music. While it's not the case nearly 100% of the time, I've heard your comment before from folks who think their subwoofer should be louder when in fact is loud but blending with their music: they comment that heir speakers are overpowering their sub.
> 
> ...


Fair enough on the amp, I may return it and get a higher credibility one. I had an old school (1998) MTX power bd1000.a2 that used to run way over what it claimed but due to age it eventually overheated and fried the circuitry.

Yeah I mean the woofer is definitely hitting, very visible excursion but I guess from what people have said I just expected so much more....like the 2L bottle story. It sounds decently loud but just not nearly as loud as I've heard it should be. 
And I thought that may have been the problem with my box so I rebuilt a new one yesterday..back of the trunk is 38" wide and box is only 23.5" wide so that's not the issue, and of course when I placed the sub in the new box I double.....tripple checked the polarity and even just the impedence itself. I'm just not getting that "chest crushing" bass I'm looking for. Meh. I just had really high expectations for this sub. Deep bass and sine wave bass sound good...but bass kicks and double bass just isn't making an impact in the cabin..even with the rear seat center pass through open.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Low distortion subs get similar comments about not being loud enough. I had a sealed setup getting low 130's with a radioshack meter C weighted and most people weren't impressed...."is it even on?"....part of that was wondering why the subwoofer sound was coming from the windshield vs. the rear.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

jbeck said:


> I had an old school (1998) MTX power bd1000.a2 that used to run way over what it claimed but due to age it eventually overheated and fried the circuitry.


Older MTX amps were wicked good.



jbeck said:


> Deep bass and sine wave bass sound good...but bass kicks and double bass just isn't making an impact in the cabin..even with the rear seat center pass through open.


Telltale sign that the amplifier can't keep up, either because internally it can't regulate power fast enough to do the job or because it isn't getting enough power to do it, the gain is set too high, or the signal the amplifier is getting is distorted.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

Did you check to make sure it's in phase? Sometimes its just the simple things.


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

sirbOOm said:


> Older MTX amps were wicked good.
> 
> 
> 
> Telltale sign that the amplifier can't keep up, either because internally it can't regulate power fast enough to do the job or because it isn't getting enough power to do it, the gain is set too high, or the signal the amplifier is getting is distorted.


I loved my MTX..lasted 16 years haha. 

Okay, so how can I diagnose which of these it is? I mean, how can I figure out if the amplifier is reciebing a distorted signal, or how can I figure out if the amp is getting enough juice? The gains were set by me...by ear. :| so it may not be optimal.


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

1fishman said:


> Did you check to make sure it's in phase? Sometimes its just the simple things.


I didn't even mess with the phase control because I have no idea what I'm doing in that respect. Is it just an "adjust it until it sounds better" type of thing or is it more technical than that?


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

When you're talking loud, what are you comparing it to?

And yes porting will make it a lot louder. Think of it this way, a properly designed ported enclosure can be 6 db more efficient. Doesn't sound like much. But realize every 3 db is equivalent to doubling the power. So if you've got 1000 watts going to it now, simply porting it would be the equivalent to running 4000 watts sealed. So if you don't have the room to port the subwoofer you're losing out on a lot of potential output. For example a 10w7 ported can easily have more output and play deeper in a similar box size to your 13w7 sealed.

As for your amp, it is CEA rated, so it will make its rated power so long as you can keep up the voltage. If your headlights aren't dimming that doesn't necessarily mean you're in the clear. Measure the DC voltage at the amp, if you're dropping below 12 volts when playing a full volume 0db test tone, you're not making your maximum power. If you measure lower DC voltage at the amp terminals and your headlights aren't dimming you've got deficient power wiring. That amplifier has a 200 amp fuse rating that is a lot of power, people claiming you'll barely get 1000 watts out of it a smoking crack or something. I've tested my Boss amps and even though yes they're actually overrated, mine have a only a 120 amp fuse rating and will put out 1200 watts at one ohm, 800 at 2 ohm at 13.0 volts since that's what my benchtop supply makes.

So many people immediately blaming the amp. Simply measure it while playing a test tone. Set your multimeter to AC and measure the voltage across the terminals of the speaker while playing the test tone. 1275 watts into 3 ohm should be about 60 volts AC.

So before everyone starts immediately saying your amp is crap without ever having used one, just realize you likely have your power, if you measure it and it's not outputting the power you'd expect, something might be wrong with your install or your adjustments. Just be careful playing those test tones, they are very hard on subwoofers. Give the subwoofer time to cool and don't play a test full power test tone longer than about 10 seconds.


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

qwertydude said:


> When you're talking loud, what are you comparing it to?
> 
> And yes porting will make it a lot louder. Think of it this way, a properly designed ported enclosure can be 6 db more efficient. Doesn't sound like much. But realize every 3 db is equivalent to doubling the power. So if you've got 1000 watts going to it now, simply porting it would be the equivalent to running 4000 watts sealed. So if you don't have the room to port the subwoofer you're losing out on a lot of potential output. For example a 10w7 ported can easily have more output and play deeper in a similar box size to your 13w7 sealed.
> 
> ...


Agh I know it'd be extremely beneficial to port it but I am just so reluctant in doing so  I mean I guess I might if none of this solves the issue but I really value my cargo space, ya know? And I like your take on the amp because I really wasn't looking forward to returning it and buying a new one since it was bought online (sonic electronix).

I'll break out the multimeter but I won't be able to post results until ~Friday because I work 12 hour days and all I want to do when I get home is take a shower, eat and go to sleep. I deeply appreciate all of this information. When you said to play a 0db test tone, what did you mean? 0hz?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I'm sure the amp is a big part of the problem but the W6 and W7 like considerably more airspace than factory. What year is your TL? Most of us with 3G TLs are running our subs infinite baffle. It will get considerably louder (on the low end) and dig deeper on the power you already have and it will sound better while saving most of your trunk space. I've used the 13W7 sealed and IB in this car and it sounds amazing, one of my favorite if all time and 300-500w will get loud and low. 

The W7 is JLs top SQ sub don't forget. It's made to sound great while getting pretty loud. There are cheaper subs that will get just as loud if SQ is not a concern. If it's not punchy enough and it sounds boomy, putting it in a larger box will likely cure it. Mine had incredible punch with only 500w when IB. 

Ported is a great option if you have the space. It has the potential for less distortion and it will have about the same output as adding a second W7 and a second amp. It's free output and it can sound just as good and better than sealed. In my opinion, sealed should only be used if you can't go IB and if you don't have the soar for ported. That's a blanket statement of course and with it's huge linear excursion and flat Bl with a wonderful suspension the W7 does very well sealed but I would go IB which is just a very large sealed. 


Did you buy it new? Want to trade for a new IDMax15 or a pair of new IDMax 15s?


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## qwertydude (Dec 22, 2008)

No you need a test tone that you know is putting out your maximum signal but isn't clipping. 0db just means maximum level. usually you would burn a CD, I'd pick a few frequencies between 25-50 hz and burn them to CD. Here's a page with 0db test tones.

http://www.ronelmm.com/tones/

Then turn up the volume til you just about hear distortion, then back it up a little. Then you'll be able to measure the voltage confident that that is your systems maximum output.


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## alm001 (Feb 13, 2010)

I see you mentioned Kick bass, but no mention of what your crossover settings are. If it has a simple on/off crossover vs an adjustable it may be too low. Kicks happen in the 80hz range.

Edit: I looked it up, and it is an adjustable crossover. What do you have it set at?


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## syc0path (Jan 23, 2013)

This definitely sounds much more like an adjustment issue, or maybe an installation problem, than an equipment problem. I would make absolutely sure that everything u have is working to its full potential before u go spend $$ on another amp that may or may not solve the problem.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

An easy check is to flip the phase on the sub. If your stock system has no high pass u could be getting cancellation. I've had systems where the phase of the sub didn't matter one bit to my ears, and then others where it totally brought things to life.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Check the crossover

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

Like someone else mentioned, simple things. Are you sure you have the sub wired correctly? The pos of one voice coil wired to the neg of the other voice coil. Using the pos of one VC and the neg of the other VC to run to the amp?


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

quality_sound said:


> Check the crossover
> 
> Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


That too


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## Airforceyooper (Sep 22, 2005)

Infrasonic cranked up too high?


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## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> I'm sure the amp is a big part of the problem but the W6 and W7 like considerably more airspace than factory. What year is your TL? Most of us with 3G TLs are running our subs infinite baffle. It will get considerably louder (on the low end) and dig deeper on the power you already have and it will sound better while saving most of your trunk space. I've used the 13W7 sealed and IB in this car and it sounds amazing, one of my favorite if all time and 300-500w will get loud and low.
> 
> The W7 is JLs top SQ sub don't forget. It's made to sound great while getting pretty loud. There are cheaper subs that will get just as loud if SQ is not a concern. If it's not punchy enough and it sounds boomy, putting it in a larger box will likely cure it. Mine had incredible punch with only 500w when IB.
> 
> ...


If you have the room OP, that'd be what I'd do, in a heartbeat.. IMO, you want more than 1 subwoofer can give you. You can def get loud with a single 12 or 13w7, but it's not going to be massively crazy over the top bass by some standards by any means, especially sealed.. Chest crushing as in literally hurting your chest takes WAYY more (think closer to 4 15's on more power for EACH sub) What was the 2l bottle story btw? That'd confirm or refute my suspicions that your expecations were too high. Anyways those Idmaxes would be right up your alley and a pair will def get alot louder than what your rocking now.


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## ImK'ed (Aug 12, 2013)

Try another sub? Is amp even working well? Bad rca connection?


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

I would really look at the enclosure before you look at the amp. I have heard single 12w7s and single 13w7s and they can get very loud. You currently have it in a sealed box and they do well in them on the sq side, but you may want to look at ported. I know you dont want to "port that *****", but thats where they thrive. For quick reference most of the 13w7s I see are around 2.5 or a little larger ported. Your are at 2.3 sealed now, doubt you will give up any more space in the trunk. 

At the end of the day you are still throwing 1300 watts at the thing. W7s pick up a lot of steam in large ported boxes. Before you throw more money at the amp, spend 50 bucks on a good box design from one of the notable box designers. You can certainly get louder and retain your sq. Also double check the amp. You said the current set up isnt louder than the stock components. Something is way off there. I just heard and car with a 12w7 at the local shop on a JL 500/1. The installer said it was way underpowered but it still did very well. Couldnt imagine what it sounded like with the 1000 watts the owner was going to end up giving it. At 500 watts it was much louder than the amped componets in the car, so something is off with your set up even sealed.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Running stock speakers? Assuming you are running stock HU as well. I don't know anything about the stock outputs but maybe you're not getting a clean signal?

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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

OP this is unreal, why buy such an expensive sub with such a low brand name amp? I don’t care if hifi sonic says 10k W rms, that amp might be doing 1000 w rms in real world. 
If I were you, I would go with a matching JL amp for that amp either the HD or Slash series. 
I would also like to know how did you connect the sub to the amp, also how are you pulling the signal to feed the amp, what crossover points do you have for the amp at this current moment. 
You should have asked us first for an opinion what amp you should go with or maybe different sub solution, not saying JL is bad.


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## JoshHefnerX (Jun 13, 2008)

There's nothing wrong w/ the Brutus series of amps. Don't let these guys bagging in it discourage you. Test the amp, voltage in and voltage out. They may be a cheaper brand but they will put out more or less what they're rated at, unless it's got a problem.

Josh


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## mdoc02307 (Mar 8, 2014)

I have one 13W7 powered by a Planet Audio BB2400 amp and it sounds phenomenal. I can't give you all the specs because I am still new to this car audio thing but it is loud. Sometimes too loud! I am after SQ primarily but this 13W7 will do it all.


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## mdoc02307 (Mar 8, 2014)

Here it is.


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## mdoc02307 (Mar 8, 2014)

Here it is in my cargo area. Still have plenty of space left. I could probably go with a more expensive amp but I really don't see the need to spend a $1,000 on another amp when this one sounds so good. I am using multiple Genesis Dual Mono amps for my front stage and all of the car audio shops I have gone to tell me there is no need to throw away the money on another mono amp. Hope this helps.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

You could also be getting cancelation, depending on how your box is sitting in the trunk. try popping the trunk and listening. if it gets louder with the trunk open, that could be your problem. assuming the speaker is firing forward through the rear seats, make sure the baffle is closed off from the rest of trunk, basically separating the trunk space from the cabin space. Much like you would do for an infinite baffle setup.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Hate to throw a spanner in the works but this is an answer i got from Gordon the Amp Doctor 


> The entry level Hifonics stuff for example the BXI1608D is pretty shoddy inside. I'd guess that they spend more on the chrome and LED's than on the circuit board, and a colleague in the US has had similar issues.
> The Foil on the board is thin and blows like a fuse so repairs become a major headache.
> 
> The XX Maximus is good quality but I'd have thought it was out of his budget range.
> ...



That aside, it could be just a simple amp problem. Have you tried flicking the 13W7 over to one of your Genesis amps? Same problem happened to me when i fitted a sub to my friends car. It just wasn't putting out. So we flipped the sub over from the JL Slash amp to another amp and the sub came alive.


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

IB that b!tch.


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## cleansoundz (May 14, 2008)

Jroo said:


> I would really look at the enclosure before you look at the amp. I have heard single 12w7s and single 13w7s and they can get very loud. You currently have it in a sealed box and they do well in them on the sq side, but you may want to look at ported. I know you dont want to "port that *****", but thats where they thrive. For quick reference most of the 13w7s I see are around 2.5 or a little larger ported. Your are at 2.3 sealed now, doubt you will give up any more space in the trunk.
> 
> At the end of the day you are still throwing 1300 watts at the thing. W7s pick up a lot of steam in large ported boxes. Before you throw more money at the amp, spend 50 bucks on a good box design from one of the notable box designers. You can certainly get louder and retain your sq. Also double check the amp. You said the current set up isnt louder than the stock components. Something is way off there. I just heard and car with a 12w7 at the local shop on a JL 500/1. The installer said it was way underpowered but it still did very well. Couldnt imagine what it sounded like with the 1000 watts the owner was going to end up giving it. At 500 watts it was much louder than the amped componets in the car, so something is off with your set up even sealed.


I agree with this. The ported box specs for thr JL 13w7 are not very big.


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## 63flip (Oct 16, 2013)

I've owned and ran 8, 10, and 12w7s. I ran all of them on JL Slash amps. The SQ of these subs was always top notch regardless of enclosure but the SPL varied greatly. The 8w7ae is currently in my Ranger in the JL spec port box on a 250/1 and is crazy loud. At one point in time I had a 10w7 in a sealed box on a 500/1 in there also. I thought the SPL from the 10w7 was lacking. The ported 8w7 on half the power blew it away in SPL. I also ran a 12w7 in JL's HO BOX on a 500/1 in my 2000 Chevy Blazer and I thought it was going to blow the truck apart. 
In my experience the w7's get real loud but they need a port to do it. If space is an issue you might try downsizing to a ported 10w7 or even an 8w7. I enjoy listening to a lot a heavy metal and the SQ isn't lacking thru the bass drums on the ported w7. They don't muddy together but hit hard and tight.


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## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

If you decide you'd like to try a different subwoofer, I'd be interested in the 13W7 if your willing to sell. In any event, best of luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## plcrides (Mar 21, 2014)

I've had all of jl audio's speakers and every time i build a box i don't even look at jl's specs on the box size because their way too small.now i did have one 12w7 by it self for a short period in a ported enclosure and then when i installed the second one it hurt my ears it was night and day difference.i think there just a super loud instrumental speaker in my opinion.losts of people on youtube have hifonic's amps and there flexing the whole car.i think you may have just thought it would be louder,was your last set up two subs or one? you can do the big 3 its cheap and fast and will give you 25 % more power.but i would build a ported enclosure and make it bigger than what jl calls for.with it being the one sub its not going to be that much bigger than what you have now especially slotted.if you have another vehicle sitting around try running a long speaker wire and putting the box in another ride and see what it does.thats a free way to see things before i go and do what I've always heard when i used to ask questions and thats to get sundown audio.for less than half the price and you can sell the 13 on here,looks like you already have a buyer.good luck


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

63flip said:


> I've owned and ran 8, 10, and 12w7s. I ran all of them on JL Slash amps. The SQ of these subs was always top notch regardless of enclosure





63flip said:


> I enjoy listening to a lot a heavy metal and the SQ isn't lacking thru the bass drums on the ported w7. They don't muddy together but hit hard and tight.


One of the most complimentary posts I've seen on the W7's SQ ability.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

To Buick GN, and the others suggesting the 13w7 in IB....

How much power would you suggest for a pair of 13W7s in a trunk baffle?

Would you wire them for 1.5 ohms, or 6 ohms?

Just curious.


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

Okay guys, I'm terribly sorry I haven't been on here in a while. I found out my issue shortly after I posted and never bothered to come back. 

To the guy suggesting a less SQ oriented subwoofer because what I want is "loud", that is simply out of the question. I had a pair of Hybrid Audio Technology Clarus c6 components waiting for me to find some time to install. I am a VERY sq oriented person.

For the people saying I could have gotten a better woofer for much cheaper - I got this woofer BRAND NEW IN BOX for only $300 - I know a guy 

The problem ended up being that I tapped a LOC into the stock subwoofer setting which I later found out was crossed over at the amplifier at ~70-80hz. I corrected this by tapping in to one of the rear speaker inputs instead to give me a full spectrum signal and then crossed at the amp. I have it crossed at about 85 hz.

Also to the people telling me to not look at JL's specs for the woofer - I know much better than that. I built one box at 2.7 cubic feet which ended up being a little on the boomy side IMO, so I built another at 2.35 cubic feet. This size sealed box in my opinion is the best trade off between deep bass for low bpm electronic music and punchy bass for kick drums.

The Hifonics amp is wonderful, I had it clamped by my local audio shop in the meantime and it's putting out exact rated power, just like I said. Don't be fooled by the "crappy" brand name, my audio guy said the lower tier Hifonics amps are to be avoided at all cost but their higher level amps are actually a great deal and put out a clean signal (note: I do my own installs, he's just the guy I buy my RAAMAT and accessories from.)

My stock headunit has a SW Setting that is adjustable from -6 to +6. After tapping into the rear speaker leads, I rarely turn my subwoofer above -4 for daily listening as even that is incredibly loud and overpowers my Clarus components - which are being pushed by 175w per channel.

I think I covered all my grounds here. Thanks for all the help and if anybody wants to discuss anything further feel free to keep the replies coming! You guys are awesome and I'm shocked at how much input I got on this thread!


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

captainscarlett said:


> Hate to throw a spanner in the works but this is an answer i got from Gordon the Amp Doctor
> 
> 
> 
> That aside, it could be just a simple amp problem. Have you tried flicking the 13W7 over to one of your Genesis amps? Same problem happened to me when i fitted a sub to my friends car. It just wasn't putting out. So we flipped the sub over from the JL Slash amp to another amp and the sub came alive.


I dunno if this reply from the amp doctor was relating directly to my scenario - but I'm wondering why he thinks that amp is out of my budget? I have a TL, a W7, and a BA in biotechnology. I make decent coin and was just slightly offended by that although I realize he probably means no harm and is assuming that based upon my amp choice.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

jbeck said:


> I dunno if this reply from the amp doctor was relating directly to my scenario - but I'm wondering why he thinks that amp is out of my budget? I have a TL, a W7, and a BA in biotechnology. I make decent coin and was just slightly offended by that although I realize he probably means no harm and is assuming that based upon my amp choice.


not sure why you would be offended by what he said? I dont think the guy cares much about your job or car. From a sales perspective he gave advice matching the equipment you have. If a guy is having an issue and uses product "x" and you know product "x" cost lets say 300 bucks, you arent going to offer him product "Z" that cost 1500 to try and fix the problem. He looked at your current equipment and figured there was a reason for the price points you picked.


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

13w7 in a prefab ported enclosure powered by a terrible hifonics amp

I'm about to cry.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

edzyy said:


> 13w7 in a prefab ported enclosure powered by a terrible hifonics amp
> 
> I'm about to cry.


Come on man, its not that bad. besides its just the subwoofer and what? an octave and a half?


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

edzyy said:


> 13w7 in a prefab ported enclosure powered by a terrible hifonics amp
> 
> I'm about to cry.


Wait, who said anything about a prefab ported enclosure?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

jbeck said:


> Okay guys, I'm terribly sorry I haven't been on here in a while. I found out my issue shortly after I posted and never bothered to come back.
> 
> To the guy suggesting a less SQ oriented subwoofer because what I want is "loud", that is simply out of the question. I had a pair of Hybrid Audio Technology Clarus c6 components waiting for me to find some time to install. I am a VERY sq oriented person.
> 
> ...


What year TL? The 3G does not use a full range signal to the rears post amp. You'll lose a lot of low end and they are not flat.

Take the signal pre factory amp, use a line driver if your amp requires it. The pre-amp fronts and I believe the rears are full range except for the '04, maybe '05. Those are just fill, very little sound comes from the rears in the early years.

I think you have a signal problem. The larger box should give quicker, punchier,'tighter, deeper, just better bass all around. I've run them IB and they were awesome. The W7 is a very good SQ sub when set up right and it just happens to get loud. It also requires more airspace than recommended for best SQ or you need more power and EQ. 

Most importantly what year TL do you have? The only post amp signal you can get away with is the sub and it's cut off around 80hz and 20hz-30hz rolls off pretty bad too.


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

BuickGN said:


> What year TL? The 3G does not use a full range signal to the rears post amp. You'll lose a lot of low end and they are not flat.
> 
> Take the signal pre factory amp, use a line driver if your amp requires it. The pre-amp fronts and I believe the rears are full range except for the '04, maybe '05. Those are just fill, very little sound comes from the rears in the early years.
> 
> ...


It's an 04 TL and dammit I didn't think anybody would know so I didn't include this hahaha, buuuuut
when I first got the car it had blown rear speakers, so I threw some 6.5" speakers I used to have in my Maxima, and bypassed the amp so the signal was T-spliced with the pre-amped front speaker signal. I could have just eliminated the rear speakers but I felt like it would be unjust considering the 5.1 surround B.S. haha.
by the way everyone says the center channel only plays with DVD-A discs but I've found mine to play with everything including burned discs and FM radio. You will notice this if you fade all the way to the front and then balance all the way to either L or R and then put your ear close/hand on top of the center speaker. It's playing at all time in my car. Did I just get lucky?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

At least it's pre-amp. The rears on the '04 do very, very little but most of the "processing" is done in the amp so you may have avoided that problem. 

So is it all good now or does it need more? The 13W7 in mine was overwhelming with 750w. That was with no enclosure of course. It has about the same displacement as the pair of my 15s so it can get stupid loud and low.


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

BuickGN said:


> At least it's pre-amp. The rears on the '04 do very, very little but most of the "processing" is done in the amp so you may have avoided that problem.
> 
> So is it all good now or does it need more? The 13W7 in mine was overwhelming with 750w. That was with no enclosure of course. It has about the same displacement as the pair of my 15s so it can get stupid loud and low.


Yeah I spent a decent amount of time browsing acurazine to figure out what to do about the blown rears. In my opinion rear speakers are usually a waste anyways, but I wanted to have them just necause I was kinda anal about the new car n having everything working...idk hahah. 

Yeah everything is golden now. On the headunit in the TL the subwoofer is constantly at -4 or -5. Any higher and I'm asking for a migraine. It does sound really good though. Do you still have the idmax 15s? Those were my second choice, and then a FI Q and a JBL GTImkiii 15. Got the w7 for $300 so I couldn't pass it up.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I still have the Max 15s. From what I remember the W7 was the better sounding sub but it's been a couple years. Rated displacement is close with the Max15s having a little more but I suspect if you put both on the Klippel the W7 might end up more linear displacement. It's just a better sub IMO. 

When sonic did the subwoofer Olympics and popped the Max to measure forward and rearward travel it came out to about 50mm both ways but only 15mm in one of the directions. That was the 12". Maybe the 15"'is better but it makes me wonder if the Max and Q have similar xmax numbers and the Max having more xmech. 

Anyway, the point being I knew I loved the W7 but wanted to try something different before coming full circle again. I don't run enclosures so all of my stuff is IB. If you ever get bored, it's really easy to do in the TL and you retain practically your entire trunk. I'm too old to have a box taking up my trunk like I did when I was younger and I get the feeling you value your trunk space as well.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

BuickGN said:


> I still have the Max 15s. From what I remember the W7 was the better sounding sub but it's been a couple years. Rated displacement is close with the Max15s having a little more but I suspect if you put both on the Klippel the W7 might end up more linear displacement. It's just a better sub IMO.
> 
> When sonic did the subwoofer Olympics and popped the Max to measure forward and rearward travel it came out to about 50mm both ways but only 15mm in one of the directions. That was the 12". Maybe the 15"'is better but it makes me wonder if the Max and Q have similar xmax numbers and the Max having more xmech.
> 
> Anyway, the point being I knew I loved the W7 but wanted to try something different before coming full circle again. I don't run enclosures so all of my stuff is IB. If you ever get bored, it's really easy to do in the TL and you retain practically your entire trunk. *I'm too old to have a box taking up my trunk like I did when I was younger *and I get the feeling you value your trunk space as well.


Blasphemy!!!!


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## jbeck (Apr 8, 2014)

BuickGN said:


> I still have the Max 15s. From what I remember the W7 was the better sounding sub but it's been a couple tyears. Rated displacement is close with the Max15s having a little more but I suspect if you put both on the Klippel the W7 might end up more linear displacement. It's just a better sub IMO.
> 
> When sonic did the subwoofer Olympics and popped the Max to measure forward and rearward travel it came out to about 50mm both ways but only 15mm in one of the directions. That was the 12". Maybe the 15"'is better but it makes me wonder if the Max and Q have similar xmax numbers and the Max having more xmech.
> 
> Anyway, the point being I knew I loved the W7 but wanted to try something different before coming full circle again. I don't run enclosures so all of my stuff is IB. If you ever get bored, it's really easy to do in the TL and you retain practically your entire trunk. I'm too old to have a box taking up my trunk like I did when I was younger and I get the feeling you value your trunk space as well.


Fair enough, my other choices for woofers included the JBL GTO WGTIiii 15, idmax15, fi Q 15, and a digital designs woofer i cant recall the name of. Glad I came across such a wonderful deal on this w7 from what I've heard.

On a different note, you have me strongly considering an iB setup, do you have any write-ups on your*TL IB project?
Any negatives to this method?
I do value my trunk space so much, and for some reason never considered stepping away from box designed set-ups.


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