# Most overated and underated in car audio



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

To me blowing thousands of dollars on stuff that's winning trophies in the sq lanes is overated. What makes some of these people think that some of this stuff is going to work for them too? Tuning and install is at least 80% of the final results.

Most underated in my eyes is putting the spec sheets and response graphs aside and trying stuff out in a real install. If it doesn't work out there will always be someone else willing to try to make it work for them.

Now a rant: If someone says a certain product is the end-all be-all take it with a grain of salt. We all like different things. I prefer the sound of higher efficiency drivers because they seem to sound more effortless. Others prefer a more neutral sound. While this is called PERSONAL PREFERENCE this thing we call "sq" is 100% OBJECTIVE. There is NOTHING SUBjective about sq.

OK, I feel better now:blush:


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> *To me* blowing thousands of dollars on stuff that's winning trophies in the sq lanes is overated.


there you go.




now, what got you all bunched up? 

Edit: nvmnd. found it:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?p=598304#post598304


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Why did the chicken cross the road???


----------



## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

most overrated = hybrid audio.


----------



## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

Mless5 said:


> most overrated = hybrid audio.


Most underrated = Zuki


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> there you go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm equally as tired of the "ZOMG HAT is the best and you're nutz if you don't like them" posts as I am the ZOMG get the ID OEM'z you'll love them they're the best cheap mids EVAR posts. They sound fine until you listen to them on axisdejo said something about distortion in the upper frequencies beaming and being there no matter how low you cross.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> To me blowing thousands of dollars on stuff that's winning trophies in the sq lanes is overated. What makes some of these people think that some of this stuff is going to work for them too? Tuning and install is at least 80% of the final results.



here's your answer, in your own words...



Hillbilly SQ said:


> My personal preference says HAT sounds like **** but what do I know:blush:I'll take a utopia mid over a legatia mid any day of the week. That's why I usually tell people to listen to someones install before dropping that kind of coin on something. *Sure it's all in the tuning and install but you can tell a lot about a driver even with bad tuning imo.*
> 
> Why do you have to USE something to get an idea of its tonal properties?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> here's your answer, in your own words...


My preference is what Chad likes to put in the "deaf" category


----------



## cheesehead (Mar 20, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'm equally as tired of the "ZOMG HAT is the best and you're nutz if you don't like them" posts as I am the ZOMG get the ID OEM'z you'll love them they're the best cheap mids EVAR posts. They sound fine until you listen to them on axisdejo said something about distortion in the upper frequencies beaming and being there no matter how low you cross.




What happened since this thread?

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32997

It seems to me that you were one of those ZOMG get the ID OEM'z you'll love them they're the best cheap mids EVAR people. What changed?


----------



## killerb87 (Oct 24, 2008)

overrated = ZAPCO


----------



## fredridge (Jan 17, 2007)

I understand completely and I think I would agree that ultimately tuning is what is going to make a car sound great. I would also say that no matter how much tuning you do, you will still be limited when using a crappy driver.

the real question is how would these or any other drivers do when running in a passive system in an optimal enclosure where the sound quality is not room dependent.

the biggest issue we have is the environment and since it changes for every car and many listeners due to height, size and seating position it can not easily be over come by dropping in an expensive speaker. The sound in each car needs to be customized. 








michaelsil1 said:


> Most underrated = Zuki


Someone heard a new install


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

cheesehead said:


> What happened since this thread?
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32997
> 
> It seems to me that you were one of those ZOMG get the ID OEM'z you'll love them they're the best cheap mids EVAR people. What changed?


x2...


----------



## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

fredridge said:


> Someone heard a new install


I did, I did!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

cheesehead said:


> What happened since this thread?
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32997
> 
> It seems to me that you were one of those ZOMG get the ID OEM'z you'll love them they're the best cheap mids EVAR people. What changed?


Let's just say I heard a couple installs that made me realize how rough those marine mids really sound


----------



## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Let's just say I heard a couple installs that made me realize how rough those marine mids really sound


Like women we can change our minds too.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Overrated: FR plots.
Underrated: Real-world driver output capabilities.


----------



## MuTT (Apr 4, 2007)

Overrated: peoples opinions on whether a product is under or over rated.

everyone's perception of worth is different and personal.

Unless you list very specifically what makes a product over or under rated, threads like this are useless.

Who rates this **** anyway?...and based on what?

Over rated: Bottled water (I can get water free from my tap)
Under rated: Bottled water (my local water supply is so polluted that I can't drink it, bottled water becomes very under rated)

EDIT: was making a point, I know the thread title specifies "car audio"


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

overated: REALLY big speakerwire on everything including tweeters

underated: clean power


----------



## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Let's just say I heard a couple installs that made me realize how rough those marine mids really sound


LOL reminds of what i was commenting on before


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

azngotskills said:


> LOL reminds of what i was commenting on before


What was that mark? 

On a giddy note a few people couldn't find my sub


----------



## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> What was that mark?


Just commenting on the ID OEM and the crazy 

I will chose to remain silent on this topic  LOL


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

azngotskills said:


> Just commenting on the ID OEM and the crazy
> 
> I will chose to remain silent on this topic  LOL


I'm gonna remain silent too for a while. 

To everyone that might get offended, I have a bad habit of being honest so no hard feelings k


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

^ just be 'honest' then. why are you worried about anyone's feelings?
You can be honest without offending folks. Just preface everything with ‘with all due respect’. 

/Talladega Nights


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

I'll get blackballed for this one...

PDX's = over rated

Yes, I've owned them... no I don't like them

If you have 'em and like 'em I'm glad; they are a nice amp, they're not for me.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> ^ just be 'honest' then. why are you worried about anyone's feelings?
> You can be honest without offending folks. Just preface everything with ‘with all due respect’.
> 
> /Talladega Nights


Long story but if I don't like something I stay quiet. I'm about as cold as they come and a lot of people view that as "severe".


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

imjustjason said:


> I'll get blackballed for this one...
> PDX's = over rated
> Yes, I've owned them... no I don't like them
> If you have 'em and like 'em I'm glad; they are a nice amp, they're not for me.



YOU’RE WRONG!



No, actually, you may be right. If I had the motivation to install new amps, I’d like to try some zapco amps. But, alas, I am lazy.  
The main reason I bought them is for footprint/efficiency. Driving a Honda limits space and alternator amperage. If I had more room/stock electrical, I would definitely have looked into other options. It’s just a good medium for me, for the price.



Overrated: tuning. Too many people depend on tuning to ‘fix’ things that can’t be fixed.

Underrated: tuning. Tuning can ‘fix’ a lot.


----------



## kidwolf909 (Jan 15, 2008)

imjustjason said:


> I'll get blackballed for this one...
> 
> PDX's = over rated
> 
> ...


I think they're too much money for sure, but I love mine for the size, power, and efficiency.

See... no blackballing there


----------



## cheesehead (Mar 20, 2007)

cheesehead said:


> What happened since this thread?
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32997
> 
> It seems to me that you were one of those ZOMG get the ID OEM'z you'll love them they're the best cheap mids EVAR people. What changed?





Hillbilly SQ said:


> Let's just say I heard a couple installs that made me realize how rough those marine mids really sound


Then why not update the thread to show your thoughts now? It might help some people when searching for new drivers. 

Oh and I totally agree that everyone is entitled to change there mind.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Long story but if I don't like something I stay quiet. I'm about as cold as they come and a lot of people view that as "severe".



Ahhhhh, ba-loh-ney (Mahoney)!

I’m sure you’d say I’m stupid for spending money on scan revs, and I’d say you’re silly for saying that. 

As long as we keep things in perspective (WHY we chose the equipment we did) it’s all good. Budgets/needs/install constraints/etc all control our choices. If someone’s taking something to heart, IMO, it may be because they’re not doing everything they can do… that or they take audio mobiles too seriously. Just mho, though. *shrugs*


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I will take the pdx blackball even further. In general (and I mean general) ALPINE is over rated!


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Long story but if I don't like something I stay quiet. I'm about as cold as they come and a lot of people view that as "severe".


will agree. I'm learning this the hard way.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> Ahhhhh, ba-loh-ney (Mahoney)!
> 
> I’m sure you’d say I’m stupid for spending money on scan revs, and I’d say you’re silly for saying that.
> 
> As long as we keep things in perspective (WHY we chose the equipment we did) it’s all good. Budgets/needs/install constraints/etc all control our choices. If someone’s taking something to heart, IMO, it may be because they’re not doing everything they can do… that or they take audio mobiles too seriously. Just mho, though. *shrugs*


Honestly, the model of tweets you're running are worth every penny imo. After hearing them in Kirks car I was stunned. Scan mids are nice also but might be a little "warm" for my tastes hence why focal is my "zomg"


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

warm - I actually like that about them


----------



## m3gunner (Aug 6, 2008)

Overrated: The difference between two level matched amps driven below their clipping points.

Underrated: How much it costs to do a really good install...


----------



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

LOL at you audio nerds. 

The PDX amplifier in my experience have a sound to them that I can not seem to tune out. Almost a "Cold" sound if that makes sense.

The OEMS are great for the price. Big beefy heavy hitters. They do tend to have a slight break up/distort if you are a geeky **** who does not enjoy your system, but nit pics every down fall to it even if it is small and unnoticable to 99% of people.

HAT...no experice only from what i read here and from what a well known local installer has said. I would NOT treat the as the next plaque however I would not use their DNA to produce the next new trendy Hybrid child anytime soon. 

Some people eat fish eggs and others **** the BK lounge......Audio is a Muther ****a and to each their own.

I would love to pick up a Zuki however PAtrick has got to get me a capable 1 ohm stable Class D mono amplifier that matches the 4 ch eleets.


----------



## Vestax (Aug 16, 2005)

FoxPro5 said:


> Why did the chicken cross the road???


To become part of the big box meal at KFC??????



Overrated - JOMA

Underrated - VBA


----------



## lyttleviet (Sep 11, 2008)

I've said it before publicly and will agree to it on here..

Overrated: The PDX have no balls and are not impressive by any means other then the footprint.

Underrated: Diamond Amps.. They are strong, solid, reliable, and can be had for a great price online. Mainly the D3 line.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Being a geek makes the world go round mang.


----------



## Syracuse Customs (Oct 6, 2007)

Over Rated: The idea that something is great because its expensive or imported from europe somewhere !


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bikinpunk said:


> Y
> 
> 
> Overrated: tuning. Too many people depend on tuning to ‘fix’ things that can’t be fixed.
> ...



You gotta learn how to do it first


----------



## Griffith (Jul 10, 2008)

lyttleviet said:


> Underrated: Diamond Amps.. They are strong, solid, reliable, and can be had for a great price online. Mainly the D3 line.


Agreed x100. Very solid amps.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Vestax said:


> To become part of the big box meal at KFC??????
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, KFC doesn't serve chicken. 

Try again.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> No, KFC doesn't serve chicken.
> 
> Try again.


They serve something that resembles a yardbird but is really sterroids and sodium with a nasty breading that's made from piss poor ingredients?


----------



## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> They serve something that resembles a yardbird but is really sterroids and sodium with a nasty breading that's made from piss poor ingredients?


Thats why i like Popeye's better


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> They serve something that *resembles *a yardbird but is really sterroids and sodium with a *nasty *breading that's made from *piss poor ingredients*?


Sounds like something made by the Alpine corporation.


----------



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

azngotskills said:


> Thats why i like Popeye's better


Homemade baked/grilled beats em all!


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Because they don't have *RICE* at KFC


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

lyttleviet said:


> I've said it before publicly and will agree to it on here..
> 
> Overrated: The PDX have no balls and are not impressive by any means other then the footprint.
> 
> Underrated: Diamond Amps.. They are strong, solid, reliable, and can be had for a great price online. Mainly the D3 line.


Funny you say this, I just picked up a D3 500.4 from an authorized dealer $180. I didn't know much about there amps, but it seemed like a good deal.

Under-rated- Xenon amps, literally! (600.1 benched at 854 watts)


----------



## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

Wow! Can you guys come out of your shell and tell me how you really feel about PDX amps? 

Overrated - Scanspeak Revs, Seas RT25F, McIntosh Amps
Underrated - BG Neo3


Do you get what you pay for? Maybe or maybe not. If you need the last nth degree of performance then Scanspeak, Mac, Dynaudio, Tru, AT, Seas Excel, etc may be the ticket. Is a pair of 4” drivers for $500+ over rated? I would have to say yes. Is $1000+ for a 4x100 amp too much? Sure. Do they sound very, very good? Absolutely! I do suspect someone 30 years down the road will still be using my Mac when the PDX is in its grave. 

Still I plan to run Scanspeak Revs and PDX amps.  
No accounting for taste I guess.


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> YOU’RE WRONG!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You were the first person I thought of when I posted that.:blush: But I saw a thread, I think yesterday, where you said you were happy with your setup now and in my opinion (which matters to no one except me) that's all that matters. As long as it works for what you need and sounds the way you like it... RUN IT!!! Who cares what someone else likes or dislikes. I like to make my own decisions.

I will say for a power / square inch ratio they are hard to beat... then you throw in the stacking... I feel ya!!



kidwolf909 said:


> I think they're too much money for sure, but I love mine for the size, power, and efficiency.
> 
> See... no blackballing there


I'm glad...I was worried that I would be the new tspence73 for saying that PDX's were overated!!



rexroadj said:


> I will take the pdx blackball even further. In general (and I mean general) ALPINE is over rated!


You have the admit the H701 / c701 is hard to beat... at least I think so.



unpredictableacts said:


> The PDX amplifier in my experience have a sound to them that I can not seem to tune out. Almost a "Cold" sound if that makes sense.


BINGO!!! In 60ndown's thread about his EQ opening up his soundstage Chad mentioned that sometimes things can be "sterile" without some distortion... that's how I feel about the PDX's, I know all amps are supposed to sound the same... yada yada yada, but the PDX's are "cold" & "sterile"


----------



## norcalsfinest (Aug 30, 2008)

killerb87 said:


> overrated = ZAPCO


I wouldn't quite go that far. Pricy, yes. But they are killer amps. I just wish they had more options.

Just two mono blocks. 500 @ 2 or 1100 @ 2. No 1 ohm stable amps, and nothing thats 500-600 @ 4.


----------



## Vestax (Aug 16, 2005)

FoxPro5 said:


> No, KFC doesn't serve chicken.
> 
> Try again.












To run away?


----------



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

chad said:


> Because they don't have *RICE* at KFC


Wait a sec....then i guess those really were maggets....oh well more protien

glad i super duper gubbered sized my sodium injested meal.


----------



## BLACKonBLACK98 (Apr 5, 2008)

overrated: people's opinions i.e. "these drivers are the win" followed a week later by "these drivers are the suck", "these speakers are awesome because i heard them sound good in this one install", "these drivers suck because i heard them sound bad in this one install"

underrated: _truly_ understanding that a driver will preform different in different situations rather than spouting off "it's all in the install"

overrated: installing equipment

underrated: buying equipment

overrated: active

underrated: passive


----------



## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

cheesehead said:


> Then why not update the thread to show your thoughts now? It might help some people when searching for new drivers.


x2 ??


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

Vestax said:


>


Ellie!! FTMFW!!! I must have spent at least an hour and a half laughing my ass off at that thread!! Some of the funniest stuff I have seen in a while!


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Imjustjason: actually I hate that peice the most. I think it is the most over rated peice in there line up. I know I am going to catch real hell from everyone here on that one but its my opinion. I have learned to really really hate alpine over the years.(exceptions:had the f1 and it was nice but had its major flaws for me, anything that started with 79?? was awesome) Every few years I go back and try there stuff out but I feel like they make integrating way more expensive, and painful then need be. I think they take advantage of there loyal followers and bend them over. And I totally agree with the sterile sound of the pdx. I love the sound of the old v12 amps though. I know the back lash will be huge and I am sorry but I have just had enough with the pedistal they get put on.


----------



## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

God, do we need to see her in every thread? It is just too jarring, you think you are in a nice safe thread...


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

underated: Looking for diamonds in the rough

overated: bonerz


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

you know, I'd like to know what people mean by "pdx has no balls"

I understand you don't like it, but wtf does that mean? It seems to me you're talking power. If that's the case then it's power matches nearly anything else out. 

If you're talking this 'sterile' sound, then that's fine. Quite honestly, with extensive processing at your disposal, I'm not sure it really matters. If you're running bare bones, then I'd probably give you that. But, in my case, I don't really have any complaints... well, none that I'm SURE another amp would eliminate.


Someone wanna send me some Zapco amps so I can A/B them?


----------



## m3gunner (Aug 6, 2008)

I think you put the McIntosh in the wrong category... heck, you use them, you should know how awesome they sound... 




jimbno1 said:


> Wow! Can you guys come out of your shell and tell me how you really feel about PDX amps?
> 
> Overrated - Scanspeak Revs, Seas RT25F, McIntosh Amps
> Underrated - BG Neo3
> ...


----------



## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

Underrated: the real owner of the tspence73 gimmick account
Overrated: sanity


----------



## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

Overrated: opinions posted on forums
Underrated: experience


----------



## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


> If you're talking this 'sterile' sound, then that's fine. Quite honestly, with extensive processing at your disposal, I'm not sure it really matters. If you're running bare bones, then I'd probably give you that.


I don't see how any processor would change the nature of an amp's clipping behavior, or turn square waves into round ones. It's unlikely that the PDX's unique sound is due to frequency or phase response differences. I think it has to do with its behavior under clipping.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> you know, I'd like to know what people mean by "pdx has no balls"


If you do a search, you'll find a member here quoted to say something to the effect of "I bridged my 4.150 to my Scan 18W's and still couldn't get any output out of them." 

Overrated: post count
Underrated: memory


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

capnxtreme said:


> I don't see how any processor would change the nature of an amp's clipping behavior, or turn square waves into round ones. It's unlikely that the PDX's unique sound is due to frequency or phase response differences. I think it has to do with its behavior under clipping.


I understand their points to be that it literally 'sounds' different. Not to do with clipping, though. I'm thinking we're saying you can take the PDX against another amp with the same power rating, play them both (below clipping level) and the PDX will sound 'sterile'. 

I'm not too sure I'd buy into it if the argument were about clipping. That just leaves a whole lot of doors open since there's so many amps rated for approximately the same power. 'sides, if the amp is being driven into clipping enough to hear it, that's another ballgame, imo.


----------



## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

I was about to cite that, too, Fox. 

Which reminds me,

underrated: Ensolite as a barrier for low frequencies


----------



## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

bikinpunk said:


> I'm not too sure I'd buy into it if the argument were about clipping. That just leaves a whole lot of doors open since there's so many amps rated for approximately the same power. 'sides, if the amp is being driven into clipping enough to hear it, that's another ballgame, imo.


You know that we're always driving our amps into clipping, right?


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

capnxtreme said:


> I think it has to do with its behavior under clipping.


Or the Ensoheavy output transistors with JOMA Technology. 

Alpine engineer 1: "How many more plastic toys can we fit in this jewel box?"
Alpine engineer 2: "Just keep going till the blue LED glows."


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> If you do a search, you'll find a member here quoted to say something to the effect of "I bridged my 4.150 to my Scan 18W's and still couldn't get any output out of them."
> 
> Overrated: post count
> Underrated: memory


IB vs. AP. Throwing power at them to get the low end up when they were IB'd didn't do jack. They do just fine now after being AP'd.  Not apples to apples, ASS. 

Like you said to hillbilly earlier... come on. You know what I'm talking about. 




capnxtreme said:


> You know that we're always driving our amps into clipping, right?


Before this goes further, I'm not saying any of you guys are wrong. Just because I'm asking these questions doesn't mean I'm combative. Hell, I've already stated why I run them, and 'sounds good' wasn't on that list. 
I'm already running the amps so I don't really have anything to gain by trying to prove you folks wrong. I do, however, have something to gain if I can understand what you guys are talking about when you say this. Truthfully, there's enough of you saying the same thing to make me want to at least _try_ something else. I've just always followed the assumption that 'power is power'. I'm trying to understand what the argument here is: is it power, or is it FR, or is it ?...


----------



## Fiercetimbo17 (May 17, 2007)

I disagree on zapco being overrated, awesome amps with tons of features. 
I cant say ive heard of anyone being unsatisfied with them.

I could do a pdx zapco a/b test


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Nothing over rated about zapco or Mcintosh, I agree there are some awesome bargain items out there that are under rated, but just because something has a high price tag I dont think it automaticaly places it in the over rated catagory. imo


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Fiercetimbo17 said:


> I could do a pdx zapco a/b test


that'd be hard to do, though. I'm thinking to truly do this you'd have to set the output voltage the same and be under true clipping (test tones, oscilloscope, load). But, heck, even a rudimentary A/B would be nice. As long as we as a group don't put all our eggs into that basket.


Which Zapco, btw?


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> Imjustjason: actually I hate that peice the most. I think it is the most over rated peice in there line up. I know I am going to catch real hell from everyone here on that one but its my opinion. I have learned to really really hate alpine over the years.(exceptions:had the f1 and it was nice but had its major flaws for me, anything that started with 79?? was awesome) Every few years I go back and try there stuff out but I feel like they make integrating way more expensive, and painful then need be. I think they take advantage of there loyal followers and bend them over. And I totally agree with the sterile sound of the pdx. I love the sound of the old v12 amps though. I know the back lash will be huge and I am sorry but I have just had enough with the pedistal they get put on.


Is there another processor that is as versatile as the H701... 4-way with selectable slopes hi/lo in each band, 1/3 octave EQ, parametrics, time alignment (which I am not actually a fan of)... optical in... I know there's more.

Oh!! I used to be the biggest Alpine fan in the world in the 80's (that's gonna show how old I am)... I had three 3537's, a 7907, 3318 all ran by DIN cables... yada yada yada. I am OK with Alpine. I like the H701 because to me there is no better substitute. If there was something different I would be all over it... I really don't like to run with the pack.

I would LOVE to have that 6-channel Tripath amp that Alpine had a few years ago.

I just don't like the PDX's... for the "there's just something missing" sound. 

Not the power output Bikin.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I am not going to argue the flexibility, although some things I felt were partially limited and some were just plain useless. I felt like it added a sythetic sound, it just took away the naturaly sound of the music. IMO I used it with a few different decks, I suppose I am just old school. I think a deck like the 9255 if your doing a 3 way active, or something like the mcintosh 406, nak cd700 and an amp that can run 2 way active is all I need if everything else is of quality and put in the right place. I dont mind processors like the dcx-730 though.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

rexroadj said:


> I felt like it added a sythetic sound, it just took away the naturaly sound of the music.


you're definately not the only one to say this. I'd like to try something else, but as Jason pointed out, at its price point, there's just nothing that I can replace it with. I could get the dsp6 for a good price, but then I'd also have to run a DC ref amp because it's a 6channel DSP and I'm running 8 (7).


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

True if your running a lot of channels then you are S.O.L The only thing I have ever needed is what the drz9255 allowed me. I will only use fronts and sub, so I dont have a problem with a processor. One of my favorite all time setups was a the 9255 a nak2004, nak2002, and nak8001 on a set of A/d/s 344is, 346is, and concept tweets. The sub bounced around from the Nak spw1200 and w12prs. Absolutely love the two. From there I went to the F1 setup and mcintosh amps. Amazing sound, horrible integration to anything, and a pain in the a$$ to use. But wish I gave it more time to play. sorry for the rant.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

i've considered even going to 2-way just to have more options. :/


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

What the hell do you run in your auto?


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

3-way scans up front. I've told you this!


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I miss read how many channels you were using. I had the three way F1 running from the dcx and just used the sub output from the 505. But talk about underated/good deal, I paid $280 for the ads px tweets, 344is mids and 346is mids. I might do it again too. I am at least attempting to get back on topic.


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> I am not going to argue the flexibility, although some things I felt were partially limited and some were just plain useless. I felt like it added a sythetic sound, it just took away the naturaly sound of the music. IMO I used it with a few different decks, I suppose I am just old school.


Hello kettle... this is the pot... you're black!! I am as old school as it gets!!! I have tried everything to get away from the 701... I've tried a 1/2 din 4-way adjustable on the fly crossover, two EQT's, a symmetry, XM-7, countless eq/crossover junkers... I could go on forever, but, alas... I can't beat it. I run a parametric preamp eq, that I can fiddle with before my 701 (yes RCA's and it whistles at startup, don't get me started on that) to give it a little more life... because like you say it's "BORING sythetic sound" is a sleeper.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I dont recall saying boring, I would say fake, is that better? Thus synthetic. Now before we get out of line try and remember this is my opinion. You dont have to like it or agree with it. I am not sure how I am the pot or the kettle since I just said I prefer the sound directly to my Mcintosh amps with excelent xovers (404) I dont need any real eq except the 2 bands on the Mc and dont really care about time allignment. Call me crazy but I think that would be somewhat old school! Just because you tried a million others and stick with your 701 doesnt make it better or right, it just means that you like it. I was not trying to strike a nerve here, just stating my personal experience.


----------



## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

I just don't understand. There seems to be different standards for different companies. 

I still contend that McIntosh is over rated in the price for performance you get. I am auditioning my speakers in my basement before starting installation. I did not do an A/B blind test but I must say I much preferred the sound of my Scan mids and tweets on the PDX4.150 than on the front 4 channels of the 440M. I think it is directly proportional to the power on hand. I also preferred the sound of the midbasses on the ESX-175.2 to the McIntosh 440M 5&6 channels. What is the difference? 50Wx4 + 100Wx4 with the 440M versus 150Wx4 + 175Wx2 with the PDX and ESX. My completely unscientific completely subjective opinion, just like the guys here who hate the PDX sound. 

Now if we are talking JL a lot of posters don't like their subs and amps. This seems to be based purely on a cost versus performance basis. I personally think their slash series amps get a bad name due to the adaptive and tightly regulated power supply. I also auditioned a 300/4 and 300/2 and I think they also out performed the Mac 440M. Not by as wide a margin as the PDX/ESX but still. Again more power on hand seems to be a factor. And believe me I wanted the Mac to sound best since it is very expensive. I just did not think it performs as well as cheaper alternatives. 

I have been auditioning midbasses not in a car, but with a leaky enclosure. Again to my dismay per their price tags, I think the JL IB4-8 is superior to the Alpine F1 Scanspeak midbasses. Similar to my unscientific subjective opinions about the amps, it is not a fair comparison really. 6.5" Scans versus the 8" IB4. But to my surprise the difference is not so much in the low end extension. The Scans have plenty of low end output down to about 50Hz. But I think the JLs just sound more natural, less strained, more detailed, and less bloated and muddy. Again just one man's opinion. You know what else, JL IB4-10's sound even better. Again unfair comparison of 10" versus 8" and 6.5", but if I can shoehorn them in my doors I plan to find out if my instincts are correct.

So why is JL blasted for selling $1000 subs that don’t outperform their competition, yet McIntosh is revered for charging $1800 for a 400W amp that doesn’t outperform it’s competition?


----------



## drtool (Nov 26, 2007)

killerb87 said:


> overrated = ZAPCO


How many have you owned? Or why do you say that.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Again it is all subjective, I am not a jl fan in the least. It has nothing to do with $ either. I personally would have to laugh at the f1 jl comparison personally but I guess it depends on what you are doing with it as well. If you want more sub based performance the perhaps. I dont think that the cost of Mcintosh is revered either. I would base it on the fact that they are localy made, have a life long reputation in the audio word, and there performance stands for itself. I dont mind the slash amps at all, great all around amps. The subs and speakers are good, that is where I find there can be better deals to be had for the $ but again that is just me. PDX vs. Mcintosh is just not even in the same area code, but again you are not going to tell the difference unless you have a true source. But again opinions are like excuses, we all got em and they all.......well you know


----------



## the other hated guy (May 25, 2007)

BINGO!!!!!

manville are you saying that reading threads don't count towards experience?... shame on you



msmith said:


> Overrated: opinions posted on forums
> Underrated: experience


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

under rated: "having a brain that you know how to use" !

Over rated: someone elses opinion !


----------



## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

Believe me I wish I did like the F1 Scan midbass better than the IB4's. It would make my life much easier. I really don't even think it is close, but they may sound completely different in the doors. And I think the Scans would be better in a real enclosure. Keep in mind I do have Scans for midbass in my homs speakers, which I love. Not exactly sure what you mean by a true source though. I have run a old school home Sony ES CD player (copper chassis) and Pioneer P9 as sources. And I would think listening in a relatively quiet basement without all the nasty reflective services would be a decent environment to make comparisons. 

I know it is against the grain here, but the McIntosh is just an Amp. An extremely well built amp with pretty blue meters, but still just amplifies the signal. Nothing magical and hence over rated in my opinion.


----------



## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

Overrated: Chrome plating, plexiglas, & trendy IB installs.
Underrated: Following your ears, not your heart.


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> I dont recall saying boring, I would say fake, is that better? Thus synthetic. Now before we get out of line try and remember this is my opinion. You dont have to like it or agree with it. I am not sure how I am the pot or the kettle since I just said I prefer the sound directly to my Mcintosh amps with excelent xovers (404) I dont need any real eq except the 2 bands on the Mc and dont really care about time allignment. Call me crazy but I think that would be somewhat old school! Just because you tried a million others and stick with your 701 doesnt make it better or right, it just means that you like it. I was not trying to strike a nerve here, just stating my personal experience.


I think we are saying the same thing. I was just giving my opinion as well. No worries. The pot / kettle thing was about the old school statement... I am pretty dead set old school... I don't use the time alignment feature of the 701... I use it just for EQ and crossover. Honestly... I don't like it either... theres just nothing that fills the hole that it leaves when you take it out.

So... _cliffs notes_... I feel ya!!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

jimbno1 said:


> I did not do an A/B blind test but I must say I much preferred the sound of my Scan mids and tweets on the PDX4.150 than on the front 4 channels of the 440M. I think it is directly proportional to the power on hand. I also preferred the sound of the midbasses on the ESX-175.2 to the McIntosh 440M 5&6 channels. What is the difference? 50Wx4 + 100Wx4 with the 440M versus 150Wx4 + 175Wx2 with the PDX and ESX. My completely unscientific completely subjective opinion, just like the guys here who hate the PDX sound.


Look, I've level matched the PDX 4.150 against other amps like Linear Power and TRU, for example. This is on Scan speakers, whatever. It's irrelevant. What's the MOST relevant is that I _like _what I hear. BUT, at the same time, I'm not silly enough to tell you it's because of some magical quality the piece of equipment possess. I cannot say that, because I don't know _why_ I'm hearing....despite having previous knowledge of what we know "makes" an amplifier have sonics. Just because I like it, doesn't mean it has "sound quality." I just means I prefer it.

I will also say that certain amps just have balls. I don't know what it is...perhaps an overbuilt PS, or 47 output transistors per channel. Don't know and I don't care. I prefer the amp with the nuts despite manufacturer or actual power ratings. To me, the PDX is a peanut in a sea of coconuts and I don't care to understand why, either. It's weaksause served in women's handbag. 

But, this is just another round-about thread on this forum. In 24 hours it will be burried and someone will undoubtly come along behind it and ask what the best "SQ" amp is or which "high end" crap they should buy, thus starting the banter all over again.


----------



## Attack eagle (Nov 18, 2006)

Overrated: JL audio

Underrated: JBL power 12 (2004-06)



Overrated: buying something because everyone else did/does.
Underrated: listening, and listening, and listening. Install install install. listen listen listen, making up your own mind.


underrated: DVD-A 
overrated: ipods


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

imjustjason said:


> I think we are saying the same thing. I was just giving my opinion as well. No worries. The pot / kettle thing was about the old school statement... I am pretty dead set old school... I don't use the time alignment feature of the 701... I use it just for EQ and crossover. Honestly... I don't like it either... theres just nothing that fills the hole that it leaves when you take it out.
> 
> So... _cliffs notes_... I feel ya!!


Sorry I was taking it a different way. At the risk of sounding really old....why dont they make things like they used to? I love my f1(rev)mids although they are for sale. Buying a new house. But they are currently being used in a two way set so the thought of the jl just made me laugh for my own current situation as a comparison. By the way my Mcintosh's dont have meter's (the meters are over rated) I do have an extra mc431 as well if we want to do a side by side test of some kind. Just had it repaired after 12 years of service (dont let friends borrow equipment)


----------



## ENDER_XVICM (Oct 8, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> Why did the chicken cross the road???


I dont know, but I hit it on my way to work today.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Attack eagle said:


> Overrated: JL audio
> 
> Underrated: JBL power 12 (2004-06)
> 
> ...


Agree on the JBL, have to beg to differ on the JL, although I don't think they are UNDERRATED and knowing the issues I had early on with JL getting answers, I have to say that my 500/5 has been a great little amp, I sometimes forget it's back there. THAT's the way an amp should be! I think it's the kids bragging **** on JL that make the name contribute to nausea to some, But if you buy it for what it is, a damn amp, then I have found it to be a solid, flexible unit.


----------



## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

Overrated: the crap you bought
Underrated: the crap I bought


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> (dont let friends borrow equipment)


NO!!! Never ever ever ever EVER EVER let anyone borrow equipment!!


----------



## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> I will also say that certain amps just have balls. I don't know what it is...perhaps an overbuilt PS, or 47 output transistors per channel.


Or lots and lots of gain that allows you to overdrive the pants off it.


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

msmith said:


> Overrated: the crap you bought
> Underrated: the crap I bought


Manville with some TRUTH!! FTW


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

msmith said:


> Overrated: the crap you bought
> Underrated: the crap I bought


That's awesome, "the crap you bought" could be used in place of "your mother" in the butt of many many, jokes


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Overrated: your opinion
Underrated: my opinion


----------



## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

chad said:


> Agree on the JBL, have to beg to differ on the JL, although I don't think they are UNDERRATED and knowing the issues I had early on with JL getting answers, I have to say that my 500/5 has been a great little amp, I sometimes forget it's back there. THAT's the way an amp should be! I think it's the kids bragging **** on JL that make the name contribute to nausea to some, But if you buy it for what it is, a damn amp, then I have found it to be a solid, flexible unit.


I agree with you on that 500/5. I did one in a couple of installs for a friend and that things was noise free and clean. Also, it was tucked away in a storage compartment for a couple of years....It never shut down. That is saying a lot as many five channel amps get generate a ton of heat.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

overated: hacking up your car because someone on a forum told you to

underated: KISS...AND sticking your dick in a light socket


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

msmith said:


> Or lots and lots of gain that allows you to overdrive the pants off it.


I've never gained much from gain, so I find it overrated.

Moar powa = underated powa = underrated.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> overated: hacking up your car because someone on a forum told you to
> 
> underated: KISS...AND sticking your dick in a light socket


I'd remove more metal and stuff if I didn't fear for it's structural integrity. 

U can fit yer weenie in a light socket plug??


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> I'd remove more metal and stuff if I didn't fear for it's structural integrity.
> 
> U can fit yer weenie in a light socket plug??


May as well cut everything out eh?

Getting it OUT is the problem


----------



## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> overated: hacking up your car because someone on a forum told you to


 X2 !


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> overated: hacking up your car because someone on a forum told you to


I am going to have to have an example of this... did someone here actually do such?? 

FREAKIN SHEEP!! Why can't people make thier own decisions?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

imjustjason said:


> I am going to have to have an example of this... did someone here actually do such??
> 
> FREAKIN SHEEP!! Why can't people make thier own decisions?


I don't know how many times I've been told to put my tweets in my pillars. ANYTHING that can't be easily returned to stock is OUT OF THE QUESTION. I do plan on trading this truck in at some point and doubt having obvious holes in the trim would help the value any. I'm NOT above hiding stuff because I hid more stuff than I care to admit when trading in my last truck but that's about it.


----------



## MuTT (Apr 4, 2007)

<perk> did someone say "sheep"?


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I don't know how many times I've been told to put my tweets in my pillars. ANYTHING that can't be easily returned to stock is OUT OF THE QUESTION. I do plan on trading this truck in at some point and doubt having obvious holes in the trim would help the value any. I'm NOT above hiding stuff because I hid more stuff than I care to admit when trading in my last truck but that's about it.


OH!! Trim... that's OK... I saw Fox's post and thought people were telling other people to cut out important structural steel!! I thought, surely not, but you never know.

I drive older vehicles for this very reason... PULL-A-PART... anything that I want to destroy I can find 3 more of at that place... for CHEAP!!


----------



## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I don't know how many times I've been told to put my tweets in my pillars. ANYTHING that can't be easily returned to stock is OUT OF THE QUESTION. I do plan on trading this truck in at some point and doubt having obvious holes in the trim would help the value any. I'm NOT above hiding stuff because I hid more stuff than I care to admit when trading in my last truck but that's about it.


Thats why you buy beat up replacement A-pillars on ebay and glass your tweets onto those instead.

Time to sell, pop the originals back on.

I hear yah on this one though.


----------



## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

To me, it's simple:

Overrated: Amplifier and head units (not including built in processing). I mean, for the love of God, how many times have the PDX amps been mentioned in here. Believe me, people have waaaaaayyyy bigger problems to fix with their systems than the amplifers being used. Between install, tuning, and speakers, any of the three are absolutely critical compared to amplifiers. I used to be one of the people who changed amplifiers monthly until I realized they make such little impact compared to the other three aspects I mentioned.

Underrated: I'm shocked no one has mentioned this one: *THE CAR* To put it simply, some cars sound better than others. My Mazda3 is significanly easier to tune in the stock locations than almost any other car I've owned. In comparison, the Xterra (using non-stock) always sounded like ass. Sure, some of it was my install/tuning, but I put a ****ton of work into that thing and could never fix some of the issues that simply weren't present in other cars I've owned. Getting up front bass was damn easy in the truck compared to any other vehicle I've owned.


----------



## Attack eagle (Nov 18, 2006)

BTA said:


> Thats why you buy beat up replacement A-pillars on ebay and glass your tweets onto those instead.
> 
> Time to sell, pop the originals back on.


eggs axe lee


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> May as well cut everything out eh?
> 
> Getting it OUT is the problem


Hell to the yes, read chadillac's post n00b!

Overrated: chicken **** candy ass 'frady cats that don't wanna wreck their precious Kia built by a robot. If you don't have any common sense, you shouldn't be in this hobby in the first place. 
Underrated: power tools with blades sharp enough to cut through your femur like butter.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

overated: zed built amps
underated:


----------



## drtool (Nov 26, 2007)

Overrated ;what the orig. engineer had in mind for YOUR car.
Underated; sawzall, tig rig.bottle of Crown. Chop Chop, works for me.
Wayne


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

With you all the way. I think just about every brand on the market has had a winning car roll through the lanes. 

I have considered doing so many out of the rhelm things and have been told by people that they will not work. 

I am fixing to do something a little out of the norm. If it works it works and if not oh well.




Hillbilly SQ said:


> To me blowing thousands of dollars on stuff that's winning trophies in the sq lanes is overated. What makes some of these people think that some of this stuff is going to work for them too? Tuning and install is at least 80% of the final results.
> 
> Most underated in my eyes is putting the spec sheets and response graphs aside and trying stuff out in a real install. If it doesn't work out there will always be someone else willing to try to make it work for them.
> 
> ...


----------



## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

BTA said:


> Thats why you buy beat up replacement A-pillars on ebay and glass your tweets onto those instead.
> 
> Time to sell, pop the originals back on.
> 
> I hear yah on this one though.


Yeah, a-pillars are cheap and easy to replace in most cases.


----------



## tspence73 (Oct 14, 2008)

I would say something but it would probably be considered overrated, so I'll just keep finding my own way for a while. :blush:


----------



## guitarsail (Oct 12, 2007)

/\/\/\/\/\ bwahaha


----------



## YzFool78 (Oct 19, 2008)

Have had alot of kicker stuff & IMO, Way over rated...


----------



## mSaLL150 (Aug 14, 2008)

JL Audio = overrated. Nice equipment? Yes, absolutely. Worth the price tag? Hell no. (says the guy running 2 of their subwoofers:blush:. I got them used for 100 bucks )


----------



## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

Overated: SQ
Underated: VBA


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I going to call you out on your 'honesty' , I think you are full of it. This is what you just wrote:



Hillbilly SQ said:


> Most underated in my eyes is putting the spec sheets and response graphs aside and trying stuff out in a real install. If it doesn't work out there will always be someone else willing to try to make it work for them.
> 
> Now a rant: If someone says a certain product is the end-all be-all take it with a grain of salt. We all like different things. I prefer the sound of higher efficiency drivers because they seem to sound more effortless. Others prefer a more neutral sound. While this is called PERSONAL PREFERENCE this thing we call "sq" is 100% OBJECTIVE. There is NOTHING SUBjective about sq.
> 
> OK, I feel better now:blush:





Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'm equally as tired of the "ZOMG HAT is the best and you're nutz if you don't like them" posts as I am the ZOMG get the ID OEM'z you'll love them they're the best cheap mids EVAR posts. They sound fine until you listen to them on axisdejo said something about distortion in the upper frequencies beaming and being there no matter how low you cross.





Hillbilly SQ said:


> Let's just say I heard a couple installs that made me realize how rough those marine mids really sound





Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'm gonna remain silent too for a while.
> 
> To everyone that might get offended, I have a bad habit of being honest so no hard feelings k


An this is what you wrote not too long ago on the same subject while replying to my post bellow:


Quote:
Originally Posted by cvjoint View Post
_I've never heard about these glorious mids before or the great reviews that go with it. More often that not a speaker that tests well sounds good. I wouldn't say the same thing about subjective reviews. You have little to no common ground with subjective criteria, whereas measurable specs. are pure science and very reliable in my experience.

I think of inductance as distortion due to VC. Generally speaking an LE of 1.5 in a woofer that size shows that inductance was approached by using shorting rings or a very smart design. I think of it as a pass no pass test. A sky high inductance is a no no for midbass upwards .

I don't have a formula that relates frequency cutoffs to Inductance but I find Werewolf's discussion on this to be very enlightening:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...nce+distortion_

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ
*in my install i like the id oem marine mid better than all the low inductance mids i've used. if you havn't heard about them or read any reviews on them you must have been hidden under a rock for the past several months.*


----------



## br85 (May 2, 2008)

over-rated: "SQ" in stock locations*

under-rated: Spending all the time and money it takes to not have any rattles or buzzes at an audible level whilst in the car, listening at any volume.







*assuming the stock locations are like 99.7% of cars, garbage (i.e. mids 70 degrees off axis in the lower part of the doors, tweeters firing into silly parts of the windshield etc)


----------



## C3 Customs (Sep 4, 2008)

br85 said:


> over-rated: "SQ" in stock locations*
> 
> under-rated: Spending all the time and money it takes to not have any rattles or buzzes at an audible level whilst in the car, listening at any volume.
> 
> *assuming the stock locations are like 99.7% of cars, garbage (i.e. mids 70 degrees off axis in the lower part of the doors, tweeters firing into silly parts of the windshield etc)


x2

Overrated: What's hot at the flea market...

Underrated: Bravox Audio, Genesis, Mobile Spec Amps(sleeper), CDT, Batcap, Pear Cable (rca's do make a difference), and personal experience.


----------



## killerb87 (Oct 24, 2008)

drtool said:


> How many have you owned? Or why do you say that.


i owned a 2ck4.0x and my PPI pc4800.2 sounds just as good with just as much power without all of the cable conversion stuff and less than half the price. i replaced the zapco with a us amps tu-4360 and couldnt be happier for half the price. that 4.0x cost me a mint and the returns were not even close. zapco makes great amps, but they are overpriced imho.


----------



## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Hillbilly, do you have a hard-on or resentment towards HAT? Maybe we should start there?  You suggest to use the 12m over the HAT 4, but have no personal experience with either....hmmm.....you recommend it over what other people have said, but then suggest tuning is 80% of sound and comment that the drivers YOU heard sounded like ****, including the marine drivers, and HAT, but have never heard a 12m. So the conclusion is that if you hear a driver that sounds good, its because of tuning, and if you use a driver that sounds like ****, its the driver?? please explain my friend


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

BigRed said:


> Hillbilly, do you have a hard-on or resentment towards HAT? Maybe we should start there?  You suggest to use the 12m over the HAT 4, but have no personal experience with either....hmmm.....you recommend it over what other people have said, but then suggest tuning is 80% of sound and comment that the drivers YOU heard sounded like ****, including the marine drivers, and HAT, but have never heard a 12m. So the conclusion is that if you hear a driver that sounds good, its because of tuning, and if you use a driver that sounds like ****, its the driver?? please explain my friend


Hillbilly is a good guy, but he just tends to think he's special b/c he can take a turd, hook it up to an amp, and make it sound good. Not everyone can do that, obviously. I don't think he hates Hybrid in particular, he just don't want to give them any credit based simply on their competition record alone. 

HAT makes nice stuff. I've never used such plug and play compatible speakers, I don't think. They are great, right off the bat. Probably not for someone that has the desire to turn great into "amazing" or "unbelievable" IME. A lot of credit should be given to Scott for taking the hobby to new levels. Successful people always move 90* to the pack. Those in the pack will resent them and try to tear them down for any achievements they make because they are just simply jealous. 

If you really want to be "good" at this hobby, IMO, you need to get your ass in your car and start _making_ things work. You're never going to be satisfied if you keep reading what other people say about how speaker X or Y sounds. I give 0% legitimacy to anyone that makes any comments on how something sounds outside their own car, tuned with someone elses ears, and installed with someone elses hands. 

When I buy a new pair of speakers, I can't wait to find out how STUPID some people are with their ridiculous comments they make on stuff. I find it hilarious.  But, at least I take it upon myself to try: most just hide behind this self-limiting notion that they are "cheap." I find THAT hilarious, too.


----------



## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

FoxPro5 said:


> I give 0% legitimacy to anyone that makes any comments on how something sounds outside their own car, tuned with someone elses ears, and installed with someone elses hands.


Ouch, low blow    LOL


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

FoxPro5 said:


> You're never going to be satisfied if you keep reading what other people say about how speaker X or Y sounds.


Now that is sig worthy!!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

azngotskills said:


> Ouch, low blow    LOL


Well, when I first used the L3's...back when I was more of a n00b than I am now...I actually _thought _they would sound good if I put them on a "baffle" [read: MDF ring], attached some backstrap to it, and threw it down in my kicks. After listening, I could have easily come to a conclusion that the speakers sound like ****, couldn't I have? See what I'm saying? 

How about this: make a comment that speaker X sounds like __________ and then post a picture of it in your car with the camera placed right where the middle of your head would be. I think that's a good start to being fair.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

FoxPro5 said:


> How about this: make a comment that speaker X sounds like __________ and then post a picture of it in your car with the camera placed right where the middle of your head would be. I think that's a good start to being fair.


I actually think this is a good idea.


----------



## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

Underrated....Old Majestic amps (1995) first amp and it was awesome MA9400SW


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

The man is obviously conflicted. Id Oem sound heavenly in his application and goes on to insult whoever missed his review on the forum, but based on hearsay he decides they are crap... and yet he lives by SQ is 100% objective; it's in his sceename guys, how can you not abide by his comments?


----------



## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

George (cvjoint) is definitely feeling his oats.


----------



## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

Underrated: A wealth of information pertaining to the product you are using
Overrated: "Just trust your ears, man!"


----------



## CobraVin (Jul 31, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I don't know how many times I've been told to put my tweets in my pillars. ANYTHING that can't be easily returned to stock is OUT OF THE QUESTION. I do plan on trading this truck in at some point and doubt having obvious holes in the trim would help the value any. I'm NOT above hiding stuff because I hid more stuff than I care to admit when trading in my last truck but that's about it.


i wouldnt let that stop you if you think it would yeild better results, alot of those trim pieces you can find in junk yards pretty cheap, thats what i did with my truck when i got rid of it


----------



## CobraVin (Jul 31, 2007)

chad said:


> That's awesome, "the crap you bought" could be used in place of "your mother" in the butt of many many, jokes


the crap you bought sucks so bad....................................................


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

CobraVin said:


> i wouldnt let that stop you if you think it would yeild better results, alot of those trim pieces you can find in junk yards pretty cheap, thats what i did with my truck when i got rid of it


My system sounds and images good enough with stock door locations. It's all about staying somewhat stealth for me.


----------



## GeoffB (Feb 3, 2007)

Overrated: 2ch is the only way preachers
Underrated: Correct processed multichannel audio


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

*Overrated:*
The intelligence of anyone who thinks that wires make a sonic difference
The good faith of anyone who says "just trust your ears, do _you_ hear a difference"
>2-way front speaker setups
Installs that waste space to "show off" the equipment inside, i.e. make it easier for thieves to locate and remove it whilst also sacrificing utility
Ankle-biting speakers (aka "kickpanels")
Separated mid and tweet
Low subwoofer crossover points
Companies that sell expensive product on the premise that their customers are idiots. See, e.g. Zapco, Image Dynamics
"Sound quality" of any electronic component
Large (as in size/footprint, not power) amplifiers
Any driver over $30 that lacks well-engineered Faraday shielding


*Underrated:*
Head units that don't look like they were designed by 14 year-old teenagers with glandular problems and video game addictions, for 14 year-old teenagers with glandular problems and video game addictions
Real data on drive units, such as Klippel reports
Audyssey MultEQ XT
Wideband drivers
High-mounted speakers
Coincident drivers
JBL GTi series generally
Class D generally
Knowing what to listen for


----------



## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

imjustjason said:


> Is there another processor that is as versatile as the H701... 4-way with selectable slopes hi/lo in each band, 1/3 octave EQ, parametrics, time alignment (which I am not actually a fan of)... optical in... I know there's more.
> 
> Oh!! I used to be the biggest Alpine fan in the world in the 80's (that's gonna show how old I am)... I had three 3537's, a 7907, 3318 all ran by DIN cables... yada yada yada. I am OK with Alpine. I like the H701 because to me there is no better substitute. If there was something different I would be all over it... I really don't like to run with the pack.
> 
> ...


Well said Jason. In the price category would be the only thing I would tack on to your comments on the h701. Yeah a h900 would be the bomb... but @ $1,000 used... its the only thing that does more... I would love to have all the features of the h701 (5.1/dolby/t-a etc) in a true 4-way + rear + sub + center outs.. with the optical etc... that's the h900.

the Tripath "Surfboard" you are referring to if think is the MRD-F752 its actually a 5-channel. with a hybrid sub channel that will run 1ohm in the sub channels. I will NEVER let mine go... LOL.... 
I don't recall a true 6-channel tripath..

I am with many, I am an old school/good ol' days of Alpine kinda guy. 3553/3554/3555 etc... the last interation of the MRV's (the MRV-1507, MRV-T757, MRV-407 etc) which are what I am running now.

My 2 major gripes with ALL HU manufacturers right now is NO ONE offers a true Higher end unit with a full-screen format. No I am not saying they have to offer a Pany-Tube level AND a screen in the same chassis... that's absurd. But, to me what is more absurd is that, I will pick on Alpine, the W200-w505 line up has NO internal processing whatsoever beyond their silly subwoofer toy-circuit. Hell even the Phantom Face 7997/7897 had Bass Engine Pro for crying outloud. As some one referenced, with most companies, if you want to make it all work, you need a $1,000+ HU, a (minimum) $500 processor, $200 iPod interface, a $75-100 sat radio box, etc.... And alpine not getting with the ball on the output voltage has been my #1 gripe for 20+ years. 

I think Eclipse does a decent job, I think kenwood & Pioneer try to cram too much/too many gimicks into their units (cone on a freaking tachometer/g-force meter on the screen!?), which degrades the sound.

The closest combo for someone like me, wanting SQ & 5.1 w/video, the F1 stuff is the only option, 2-DIN units with a freaking Flip out... I don't like flip outs... even though I had one...

Oh well... Alphasonik/US Acoustics is one of the unsung heros in my book. Harrison Sound Labs used to have some amazing processing back in the day. 

Overall: OLD SCHOOL is way underrated...

Rob


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Overrated: Surfing an internet forum about car audio at 11:00 PM
Underrated: Sexually harassing your wife at 11:00 PM


----------



## stereojnky (Mar 17, 2008)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Overrated: Surfing an internet forum about car audio at 11:00 PM
> Underrated: Sexually harassing your wife at *any *time


Fixed that for you Scott.


----------



## silverdiesel2574 (Feb 22, 2008)

I agree with Scott, whats up buddy...


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

NICE. My bad. Thanks for the clarification. Which reminds me, I think my wife's upstairs...bye.

Scott


----------



## sundownz (Apr 13, 2007)

You know... I heard the HAT speakers @ MECA Finals and I really liked them - at least in the setup they were in


----------



## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

Overrated: "You won't hear the difference at 70mph on the highway".
Underated: What you can hear stopped at a stoplight or travelling under 30mph in city traffic.


----------



## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

bikinpunk said:


> ^ just be 'honest' then. why are you worried about anyone's feelings?
> You can be honest without offending folks. Just preface everything with ‘with all due respect’.
> 
> /Talladega Nights


Isn't the Texas-specific version of that to add "...bless your/his/her little heart!" to the end of anything?

_Oh, she is such a whore, bless her little heart!_



...I heard that somewhere


----------



## vecc205 (Nov 18, 2007)

Overated: Expensive RCA's, Overly Expensive Amps, Using a home speaker in to small of an enclosure, Believing what you read without trying it yourself. 


Underrrated: Having a good reference system to normally listen to when not in your car, being able to hear a tone and know what frequency it is or is close to, sound dampening, a simple two way setup, a line driver, good head unit. 

Just some I could come up with.


----------



## shadowfactory (Oct 20, 2008)

vecc205 said:


> being able to hear a tone and know what frequency it is or is close to


That's called perfect pitch and only a small percentage of the population is born with that ability, it can be learned, but must be done so from infancy. Especially in countries that have tonal based languages, like China. 

I know I'm going down for this:

Overrated: Techflex

Underrated: Getting the most out of what you have instead of throwing money at everything.


----------



## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

Underrated: How much fun it is to throw money at the problem...


----------



## shadowfactory (Oct 20, 2008)

BTA said:


> Underrated: How much fun it is to throw money at the problem...


I agree.  Though, I think it takes discipline and patience not to.


----------



## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

Scott Buwalda said:


> NICE. My bad. Thanks for the clarification. Which reminds me, I think my wife's upstairs...bye.
> 
> Scott


Play by play tomorrow AM.


----------



## Attack eagle (Nov 18, 2006)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Underrated: Sexually harassing your wife at 11:00 PM


sexual harrasment means unwanted advances...
with business/jobs/studies and a car & audio hobby, I doubt any of us could 'sexually harrass' our wives...





TXwrxWagon said:


> The closest combo for someone like me, wanting SQ & 5.1 w/video, the F1 stuff is the only option, 2-DIN units with a freaking Flip out... I don't like flip outs... even though I had one...


AV8533 maybe? that's what I'm going to try once I get more monetary units



overrated: sedans and hatchbacks
underrated: mid to fullsize wagons

overrated: everything on display installs
underrated: stealthy installs

overrated: Fiberglass + paint
underrated: carpet, leather, and other soft materials

overrated: sharing your taste in top 40 music with the world by adding extra tweeters in the a pillars + subs to a factory system, cranking the subs to nuclear, and driving around with your windows down.

underrated: a well dampened car with the windows up, and showing some respect for others by moderating the volume and keeping your particular taste to yourself

overrated: playing LOUD music till your ears ring
underrated: playing GOOD music cleanly and still being able to hear in 20 years.


----------



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

Attack eagle said:


> overrated: sedans and *hatchbacks*
> underrated: mid to fullsize wagons


GTFOOH!


----------



## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Overrated: High-end RCA cables, RCA cables as a signal connection, plenty of amplifier power, aperiodic enclosures, connecting one midrange out of phase, exotic speaker materials, home-brew passive networks, the value of non-compressed audio, ambisonics

Underrated: Signal processing, center channels, rear speakers, equalization, and most of all--factual data generated by real test gear.


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

BlackSapphire said:


> Play by play tomorrow AM.


I'm tired. Is that enough of an explanation? 

Scott


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

BeatsDownLow said:


> overated: zed built amps
> underated:


I'd love to hear what your reasoning behind that statement is. It's not like they're overpriced, of inferior quality, or have a short service life.



shadowfactory said:


> Overrated: Techflex
> 
> Underrated: Getting the most out of what you have instead of throwing money at everything.


Agreed on the techflex. I fell for that when I did my first install in my current car.  I won't do it again unless it's in an area where it needs the extra protection. Also a good call on the underrated part!

Now for my own personal listing

Overrated: Actually thinking that price tag = quality and/or higher performance. Flashy amps, square subs, trying to make a 6.5" play down to 50Hz at moderate or higher volumes

Underrated: Dayton RS series drivers, Zuki Audio, PA drivers, using multiple speakers when/where applicable to achieve the output you want, RESEARCH!!!!, using the search function, Peerless, taking the time to experiment yourself in your own car to see what works best *FOR YOU.*


----------



## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

Attack eagle said:


> AV8533 maybe? that's what I'm going to try once I get more monetary units


Thanks, but its a flip out... I want 2-DIN..

Agreed on the rest..

Rob


----------



## SUX 2BU (Oct 27, 2008)

Overated: Saying a product is the end-all, be-all just because so and so uses it or anything else besides you actually using it and knowing for yourself.

Underated: reading review on products to help you select something. Have you looked at the parts express catalogue lately? How is one person supposed to choose from what appears to be 10 drivers of the same size from the same manf? How are specs alone supposed to tell you how good something sounds? Word of mouth can save hundreds of dollars of trying all those speakers.

^ Those sound like the same argument from both sides but I honestly find it intimidating to buy anything out of PE because of their sheer amount of selection. Nobody wants to waste money.

Also overated: 
- stupid-priced RCA cables (I've made a few of my own sets with quality metal ends that I think look nice and tightly-twisted 20 ga. alarm cable. No noise issues whatsoever)
- techflex (it's a fad)
- adhesive-bottom wire tie mounting pads (they look great after you stick them down and take the pics for the log book but don't expect them to actually stay stuck down and do their job)
- people who feel they have superior hearing (NOBODY knows what another person is hearing so how can you tell me yours is better? 100% subjective)
- amplifiers sounding 'better' than others (different maybe but only because of clipping issues resulting in audible distortion)
- people picking something out of a system and saying it does this or that to improve the sound. "Oh that/those (insert item of choice here: head unit, cables, processor, amp, speaker wire, etc) added so much depth and clarity to the sound" Uh, yeah. The ONLY situation where that MIGHT add legitamacy is if one particular item was swapped out and re-listened too but even then, your aural memory is pretty short-lived
- stuffing as many drivers as possible into an a-pillar

Underated: home-made RCA cables, using headphones (and not always $100+ ones) as a reference, welding cable as power wire, used old skool higher-end equipment in great condition


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

SUX 2BU said:


> Underated: home-made RCA cables, using headphones (and not always $100+ ones) as a reference, welding cable as power wire, used old skool higher-end equipment in great condition


Ah yes, I forgot about the welding cable for power wire thing. I always suggest that to people when they post on here asking what kind of 0/1 or 4 AWG they should buy. That superflex welding cable is as good as any "car audio" power and ground wire.


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

this thread is becoming overrated...


----------



## soundq1 (May 18, 2008)

Glad you fell better now............


----------



## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

Scott Buwalda said:


> I'm tired. Is that enough of an explanation?
> 
> Scott


Say no more pal.... say no more. 



soundq1 said:


> Glad you fell better now............


How did he 'fall' before?



SUX 2BU said:


> Also overated:
> - stupid-priced RCA cables (I've made a few of my own sets with quality metal ends that I think look nice and tightly-twisted 20 ga. alarm cable. No noise issues whatsoever)
> - techflex (it's a fad)
> - adhesive-bottom wire tie mounting pads (they look great after you stick them down and take the pics for the log book but don't expect them to actually stay stuck down and do their job)
> ...


That's one of the best posts in this thread. *golf clap*


----------



## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

BlackSapphire said:


> *golf clap*


Don't you get that if you handle another man's wood?


----------



## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

86mr2 said:


> Don't you get that if you handle another man's wood?


You've been saving that one up, haven't ya?


----------



## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

Actually, it started out as "golf clap"??? -never having seen the term before. Then one thing led to another...


----------



## BlackSapphire (Apr 16, 2008)

86mr2 said:


> Actually, it started out as "golf clap"??? -never having seen the term before. Then one thing led to another...


LOL - I know how that goes.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

shadowfactory said:


> Overrated: Techflex


Thank you!

Overrated: tuning your car to the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" :barfarama:
Underrated (still): making a donation to the Audionutz Church of all things Good Sounding for your Audio System.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

So who here has heard anything Hillbilly has installed? Who is to say that he isn't deaf and wouldn't know good sound if it slapped him in the face? For someone who hasn't ever heard anything other than some piezo tweeters and 10s, anything could sound good and be an improvement. On the flip side he could have an ear like Matt Roberts. I dunno.

Not just picking on the guy, but the same could be said for anyone whom you don't personally know and have personally have heard their car and/or reference point.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

overrated- pussassed cars with some 3s or 4s and a single 8. And that's it for speakers...maxing out a mind numbing 85 dB.

overrated- cars that sound like Bose radios. Or polite sounding cars. Or cars that sound like headphones.

overrated- tweeters that have shimmer and air on cymbals. When have you stood next to a 16" crash after someone just knocked the hell out of it and heard shimmer?

underrated- big speakers with a ton of powerz on them

underrated- cars that can play real music at realistic volumes...and the music sounds real. Not pretty, or nice...but real.


----------



## SQCherokee (Mar 5, 2008)

Overrated: Audiobahn.
Under Rated: Pawn Shops and E-bay

You can get some great deals on equipment. And the pawn shops in omaha run the serial numbers through the police dept so if somethings reported stolen its caught before it goes on sale.


----------



## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Overrated, Polite sounding cars.



X2


----------



## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

SQCherokee said:


> Overrated: Audiobahn.


It should be devoutly wished that the members of this particular forum would never buy Audiobahn... 

I hope. I like to think we're better than that.


----------



## FREQBOX (Jun 25, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Underrated:center channels, rear speakers.


I love both of these...at home when Im watching movies


----------



## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

msmith said:


> Overrated: opinions posted on forums
> Underrated: experience


X1000000000.

Great post Manville!


----------



## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

FREQBOX said:


> I love both of these...at home when Im watching movies


Just like Manville's post above about internet reading vs. experience, another classic case of where internet reading goes wrong. 



It amazes me how much effort most car audio guys go through to tweak their sound with EQ, processing, etc. which is something a sane home audio purist would NEVER do, but god forbid you add a center channel that actually DIALS in a strong center vocal image, or add rear speakers which adds midbass and ambience!!

LOL. 

For the record I'm not against EQ and/or processing in a car, as a car needs help. But EQ and processing in a home is harmful and unnecessary to your stage, respectively. 

Sure, you wouldn't put a center & rear fill in a home for music, but the benefits far outweigh the "negatives" IMO in a car. It amazes me that perhaps only 5-10% of car audio nuts actually really care about the punch, warmth, musicality of the sound.......

People I've seen in this hobby mostly care about whether you have a "snare 30% from the left of the dashboard with an acoustic guitar just right of center with a horn section fading off to the far right deep in the stage".

While that stuff has its merit, to put a huge passion behind imaging/staging on that level is, IMHO, sad.

Sorry for the rant, but I guarantee you if it weren't for this obsession nobody would object to centers and rear fill.


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

Overrated: Bashing everyone elses opinions / ideas

Underrated: Minding your own business


----------



## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

imjustjason said:


> Overrated: Bashing everyone elses opinions / ideas
> 
> Underrated: Minding your own business


I like that.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Andy, maybe some more of us would agree that centers and rear speakers are under rated if only there was a processor to let us really utilize such things properly.


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

86mr2 said:


> I like that.


How bout these...

Overrated: Running your mouth like you know everything

Underrated: Keeping your mouth shut and learning something


----------



## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

I liked the first one better. Oops, that's an opinion.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> overrated- pussassed cars with some 3s or 4s and a single 8. And that's it for speakers...maxing out a mind numbing 85 dB.
> 
> overrated- cars that sound like Bose radios. Or polite sounding cars. Or cars that sound like headphones.
> 
> ...


WINNAR!!!!!


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

86mr2 said:


> I liked the first one better. Oops, that's an opinion.


I tried...


----------



## 1970Cutlass (Feb 21, 2008)

Overrated = Ca.com
Underrated = DIYMobile


----------



## typericey (May 13, 2006)

here's an atom bomb:

overrated: objectivity
underrated: subjectivity


----------



## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

typericey said:


> here's an atom bomb:
> 
> overrated: objectivity
> underrated: subjectivity


Horse manure!!


----------



## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Overrated: Those that believe anyone that spent more than they did, overpaid. 
Overrated: Those that believe anyone that spent less than they did, bought junk. 

Overrated: Anyone who believes their oppinion matters more than everyone else's, when it comes to everyone else's choices.

Underrated: Listening to music that you truly enjoy, on a system that you like the sound of, regardless of what someone's spec sheet says.

Underrated: Spending more time finding new and interesting music than picking equipment to play it on. 

Underrated: Long drives

Underrated: Doing what makes you happy.


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

FG79 said:


> It amazes me how much effort most car audio guys go through to tweak their sound with EQ, processing, etc. which is something a sane home audio purist would NEVER do,


Any sane, rational fan of high-fidelity reproduction of music in the home today is certainly using the better tools available to us, be it bass EQ through something like a Velodyne SMS-1 or broadband room correction via Audyssey MultEQ XT or the systems by TacT, Meridian, Lexicon, etc. 

It's a new day, and the music sounds better because of it.


----------



## MuTT (Apr 4, 2007)

WRX/Z28 said:


> Overrated: Those the believe anyone that spent more than they did, overpaid.
> Overrated: Those that believe anyone that spent less than they did, bought junk.
> 
> Overrated: Anyone who believes their oppinion matters more than everyone else's, when it comes to everyone else's choices.
> ...


Cheers!!!


----------



## Mlstrass (Apr 22, 2006)

overrated: spenting countless hours tweaking to reach SQ nirvana

under rated: being happy with your set up and just enjoying some good music


----------



## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

overratted: everybody's opinion
underrated: my opinion
misunderstood: the gravitational pull of my penis on the moon and how it was my phallus that created the sea of tranquility.


----------



## MuTT (Apr 4, 2007)

AWC said:


> overratted: everybody's opinion
> underrated: my opinion
> misunderstood: the gravitational pull of my penis on the moon and how it was my phallus that created the sea of tranquility.


all hail, your kak


----------



## vecc205 (Nov 18, 2007)

I forgot something I think could be used to aid in tuning whether it be for measurement purposes or making your own reference recording where the mics become your ears. Check out these in ear binaural microphones. 

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2


----------



## FREQBOX (Jun 25, 2007)

FG79 said:


> Just like Manville's post above about internet reading vs. experience, another classic case of where internet reading goes wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My opinion comes from what I have personally experienced not what I have read about. The reading I do on here gives me ideas to try things and only after I try them will I give my opinion on them. 
Since I don't want a center channel and rear speakers does that mean I don't like punch, warmth and musicality? 
Because I actually LOVE punch, warmth and musicality. 
I wouldn't want to mess with a center channel in my car and for me personally I don't care for rear fill speakers. All that being said, Im not saying that a car cant sound good with a center and rear speakers,
Im just not a fan of all around sound in my car.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Overrated: The new Orion HCCA series rated @ max power and John Durbin's opinion that these amps are "great" compared to the original HCCAs! Hey John, at least the old amps did rated power even though you said their bipolar power supplies were "horrible!" As I said before, and I will say it again, the new Orion HCCA series is marketed no better than Pyramid or Legacy due to its MAX power marketing scheme!

Underrated: My recently acquired 25 to Life Punch 150:









I would say it does a tad bit more than 180 watts into a 4 ohm mono load


----------



## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Overrated: Mysticism
Underrated: Science

Overrated: expensive 2-channel audio
Underrated: inexpensive multichannel

Overrated: Fundamentalism
Underrated: modernization

Overrated: getting the best deal
Underrated: doing what you can to see that companies who invest in innovation make enough money to continue


----------



## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Overrated: getting the best deal
> Underrated: doing what you can to see that companies who invest in innovation make enough money to continue


That hurts. :blush:


----------



## killerb87 (Oct 24, 2008)

Mlstrass said:


> overrated: spenting countless hours tweaking to reach SQ nirvana
> 
> under rated: being happy with your set up and just enjoying some good music


i like that.


----------



## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

imjustjason said:


> How bout these...
> 
> Overrated: Running your mouth like you know everything
> 
> Underrated: Keeping your mouth shut and learning something


Underrated: Keeping your mouth shut except when to inject a timely bit of wisdom

:blush:


----------



## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

This was just too good to let die.

There is a ton of subjective material in there but a lot of it is good!!!!!! I am loveing both sides to this for entertainment pursposes and respect for the others opinion.

Overrated : spending more than 300 dollars on any one NEW piece of car audio equipment in the current USD market for SQ purposes.

Underrated: Used, New old Stock, Vintage, Refurbished (warrantied), birch cabinets, DIY

UNDERRATED: the strength of America if we had to pull together like after Pearl Harbor (we are running at db reference, not the dB +20 [hundredfold] that we are capable of)

Oh geesh, now I am being subjective.


----------



## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

Over rated: Focal
Under rated: Pioneer


----------



## bboyvek (Dec 16, 2008)

Overrated: Spending thousands on expensive equipment
Underrated: Knowing how to use and install said equipment


----------



## stills (Apr 13, 2008)

overrated: almost everything in car audio



underrated; walmart pioneer subs


----------



## Hipnotic4 (Oct 21, 2005)

lol this thread hits so many different topics..
One of the best underrated--"Being happy with your setup and enjoying the music."

I think this happens w/ most hobbies though, people get too informed about it, too technical, and the actual "fun" dies down and it becomes more of a job than a hobby.

Underrated-Kicker SX line..came out too soon...but greattt amps w/ more options than most know what to do with.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Hipnotic4 said:


> lol this thread hits so many different topics..
> One of the best underrated--"Being happy with your setup and enjoying the music." Also agreed!
> 
> I think this happens w/ most hobbies though, people get too informed about it, too technical, and the actual "fun" dies down and it becomes more of a job than a hobby.
> ...


Great call!!!! I agree with you there, they were/are great amps! I do think the size of them kinda shot them in the foot. Tough for a lot of people but tons of power, and your right....a lot of features!


----------



## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Overrated: believing the latest/greatest/whizbang DSP is all that is needed for even the crappiest of installs.

Underrated: under-the-radar equipment that works well with your install. Vifa full-range television speakers FTW.


----------



## 08Raider (Jun 17, 2010)

Overrated: All the new hype Audiobahn is getting for "coming back to life" (has anyone seen where can you find information on what they are doing that makes them relevant?)

Underrated: Buying products from companies that actually care enough to still have good customer service and support.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

Overrated: 3 way active setup
Underrated: properly installed 2 way

Overrated: TONS of new school processing
Underrated: Equipment that doesn't need so much damn processing (good speakers that seem to image well on their own)


----------



## ryan s (Dec 19, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Overrated: 3 way active setup
> Underrated: properly installed 2 way
> 
> Overrated: TONS of new school processing
> Underrated: Equipment that doesn't need so much damn processing (good speakers that seem to image well on their own)


I seriously LOL'd at the last one :laugh:


Underrated: Knowing what you're talking about
Overrated: Your opinion :laugh:


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Underrated: 10ft wide cars with no glass, roof, doors,and dashboard, but with a single seat situated right in the center so that you don't need so much damn processing


Fixed it for you.


----------



## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Otherwise known as a media room


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Overrated: internet heroes who are great at copy/paste but, in person, have nothing meaningful to contribute to a conversation. 

Underrated: 'put up or shut up'. Keeping your mind engaged, even if someone on a forum tells you otherwise.
Having _something_ to back up your claims other than "because I said so".


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

MarkZ said:


> Fixed it for you.


There are people taking first place over ....and over.....and over....and over....and over....again in comps right now with ZERO digital processing. Get some good gear first and take time to install it properly....process if needed later. That is the rule that has been forgotten in todays age. Don't buy mediocre gear that MANDATES processing and then blame the fact that it needs so much processing on your cars environment.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> There are people taking first place over ....and over.....and over....and over....and over....again in comps right now with ZERO digital processing. Get some good gear first and take time to install it properly....process if needed later. That is the rule that has been forgotten in todays age. Don't buy mediocre gear that MANDATES processing and then blame the fact that it needs so much processing on your cars environment.


What's a comp? Is that shorthand for circle jerk? :laugh:

Of course installing correctly is smart. That's an obvious thing that everyone strives for to some degree. The "good gear" thing is also a pretty good tactic, although most people don't really know what "good gear" means.

Unfortunately, the car environment takes all that wonderful gear that sounds great in the house, and squashes it into the ground. Flat frequency responses are completely and utterly destroyed by early reflections, good distortion performance ends up being swamped by panel resonance, phase coherence is obliterated by the car's mounting locations, and low noise floors are ruined by road noise and plastic interiors. Midbass performance is killed by suckout, while cabin gain simultaneously acts in the opposite direction a mere two octaves away. Then, when we finally get things just the way we like them with a lot of hard work and some shrugging of shoulders... we open the sunroof.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

jimmy2345 said:


> There are people taking first place over ....and over.....and over....and over....and over....again in comps right now with ZERO digital processing.


Please enlighten us as to which MECA and IASCA sound quality division annual champions use absolutely NO digital processing. Also, I don't want to hear about USACi where no one competes in SQ locally due to the fact that USACi is SPL only in Louisiana.

But seriously, I really want to know which champions use ZERO digital processing.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> There are people taking first place over ....and over.....and over....and over....and over....again in comps right now with ZERO digital processing.


Here you go douchebag....










9887, a JL 500/5, and 200 dollars of speakers total. As of the time I won it ALL, and got ****ING BEST OF SHOW OVERALL I had the second highest score in my class nationally at the time, have not checked recently.... because really...... I don't give a ****.

What I have over you is more audio knowledge ****ted out every morning than you will ever have.

Suck it. 

I have yet to see any of your work or even a semblance of intelligence from your belching. Sometimes one has to say, put up or shut up. 

You ain't doing so well so far here.

Especially considering I am an underdog, little guy in competition. You will get owned.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

was this recent, chad?


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

chad said:


> Here you go douchebag....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol....Lol....oh my god....I can't quit laughing...Lol...lol. I got bigger trophies in middle school for summer league basketball. Are you kidding me? Enter a real comp....which means with competitors....and we will see how your truely ****TY system, and INSTALL is. I am so falling on the floor right now laughing.....lol.. 9887, 500/5......lol........lol....


----------



## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

Most overrated
YouTube - ‪Bob Esponja From Hell‬‎
Most underrated
YouTube - ‪Beavis And Butt-Head: Hulk Hogan - Real American‬‎


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Lol....Lol....oh my god....I can't quit laughing...Lol...lol. I got bigger trophies in middle school for summer league basketball. Are you kidding me? Enter a real comp....which means with competitors....and we will see how your truely ****TY system, and INSTALL is. I am so falling on the floor right now laughing.....lol.. 9887, 500/5......lol........lol....


Again I **** more audio knowledge every morning than you possess..... Wanna try me? Let's go. Maybe Ant will make it the feature weekly thread so the whole world can see how much of a ****ing idiot you are. I asked once and you never replied, Chris asked, you never replied.

You are a typical car audio wannabe.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Listen to this douche...."Also, I don't want to hear about USACi"....so you want to block people out just so you can sound right?
> 
> Boy, you people really can make yourselves look dumb, to rational people, with no help from others.


Who are you calling "you people"? Wait... who are you calling "BOY"?

<making myself look dumb...and I'm not done yet>


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

try me jimmay
come on, let's hear you.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

chad said:


> You are a typical car audio wannabe.


Far from that, bud. I have been in the game just as long, if not longer than you. Not to mention, I would bet my net worth that I own more car audio equipment at this very moment than you have in your existence. And that is a fact.

Far from a wannabe....we can't all be posers like you. It takes a special underacheiving someone for that.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

jimmy2345 said:


> Listen to this douche...."Also, I don't want to hear about USACi"....so you want to block people out just so you can sound right?
> 
> Boy, you people really can make yourselves look dumb, to rational people, with no help from others.


No, because I would take first place in USCAi SQ locally because I would be the only car competing in that class. First place by default is not even worth showing up for.

Also, what is up with the name calling? I was just trying to engage in intelligent discussion with you and all you ever do is call me names.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Far from that, bud. I have been in the game just as long, if not longer than you. Not to mention, I would bet my net worth that I own more car audio equipment at this very moment than you have in your existence. And that is a fact.


That's actually funny, quite funny, and we have people here that can prove that you are wrong.


Girls, we have been Brimmered.

And I'm not your ****ing Bud, you son, your chief, or your hombre, so don't talk like that. It always ends bad.


----------



## rommelrommel (Apr 11, 2007)

jimmy2345 said:


> Far from that, bud. I have been in the game just as long, if not longer than you. Not to mention, I would bet my net worth that I own more car audio equipment at this very moment than you have in your existence. And that is a fact.
> 
> Far from a wannabe....we can't all be posers like you. It takes a special underacheiving someone for that.


So you're betting a Gateway and a massive E-peen on that?


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

come on Jimmay, you are watching this thread....


And you know that you are gonna get ****ing owned.....

Put up something smart school boy.


----------



## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

Where to these guys keep coming from?


----------



## Hipnotic4 (Oct 21, 2005)

overrated-arguing w/ people over the INTERNET..

underrated-knowing when to stfu


----------



## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)




----------



## sam3535 (Jan 21, 2007)

*You are all infracted and banned. Please move forward.*:laugh:


----------



## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)




----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

He pussied out, I got money to make on the other bench while he strokes his pud over his old ass amps and 79 oh somethings with dried up caps he has no idea how to fix because one makes low end and for some reason the other doesn't.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jp88 said:


>


Egg-Zachary


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Hipnotic4 said:


> Underrated-Kicker SX line..came out too soon...but greattt amps w/ more options than most know what to do with.





rexroadj said:


> [/COLOR]
> Great call!!!! I agree with you there, they were/are great amps! I do think the size of them kinda shot them in the foot. Tough for a lot of people but tons of power, and your right....a lot of features!


I'll have to disagree to the bone.
Overrated: Kicker SX900.4 MSRP of over 4 digits, noise floor makes it unusable for active filtering, low power/footprint, the endcap threads are one time use etc.
In fact...
Overrated: amplifiers with built in processing. If sound quality is so important than why go through several DAC conversions? Redundancy, filters you can't bypass entirely, high noisefloor like the Kicker etc. Imo I'm no KISS guy but here is a situation where KISS goes a long way. These amplifiers are only out there because some folks believe thousands of lbs of processing will always be better... Imo, filter it once, filter it well, which means in the head or through a digitally connected processor (fiber optic/coax). 

Underrated: Chad  I competed too just for kicks. The rulebook says center stage should be mid dash...rofl! When I listen to my HT system I sit on the left of the sweetspot haha


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

cvjoint said:


> I'll have to disagree to the bone.
> Overrated: Kicker SX900.4 MSRP of over 4 digits, noise floor makes it unusable for active filtering, low power/footprint, the endcap threads are one time use etc.
> In fact...
> Overrated: amplifiers with built in processing. If sound quality is so important than why go through several DAC conversions? Redundancy, filters you can't bypass entirely, high noisefloor like the Kicker etc. Imo I'm no KISS guy but here is a situation where KISS goes a long way. These amplifiers are only out there because some folks believe thousands of lbs of processing will always be better... Imo, filter it once, filter it well, which means in the head or through a digitally connected processor (fiber optic/coax).
> ...


No disrespect.....I found there amps to be quite usefull in a few different setups....Never had a noise floor issue with them either? Do I run them now? no! I am not a dsp guy...not going to add to that debate..For me its just not worth it. I am happy with extreme KISS but that does not take away from other needs for other situations.... Different strokes.....All this crap is just preference...nothing more nothing less.....Something everyone should think twice about! Its music not pink noise!


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> Underrated: Chad  I competed too just for kicks. The rulebook says center stage should be mid dash...rofl! When I listen to my HT system I sit on the left of the sweetspot haha


YOU sir, are playing my game on how I define a center image as to where I am sitting 

However, it seems to work with the right judge.

**** the dash, *I* am driving.

Oh, and jimmay, I can... Because I know how to.


----------



## Mako312 (May 10, 2010)

chad said:


> YOU sir, are playing my game on how I define a center image as to where I am sitting
> 
> However, it seems to work with the right judge.
> 
> ...


lol 

the **** the dash part made me laugh.


----------



## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

chad said:


> **** the dash, *I* am driving.


thank you good sir for the sig line!!!!


----------



## Mako312 (May 10, 2010)

wheelieking71 said:


> thank you good sir for the sig line!!!!


took my idea.

I was about to do that!!!


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

It works, I **** you not, but you gotta make your left side somewhat believably wide or your height just right.

But Jimmay ain't gonna do it with a 790X and a coustic crossover, he's gonna have to grow up sometime.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

wheelieking71 said:


> thank you good sir for the sig line!!!!


use it, fair game


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

wheelieking71 said:


> thank you good sir for the sig line!!!!


Kiss ass....


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

chad said:


> It works, I **** you not, but you gotta make your left side somewhat believably wide or your height just right.
> 
> But Jimmay ain't gonna do it with a 790X and a coustic crossover, he's gonna have to grow up sometime.


You know....you show how stupid you really are. You can stage and image with proper placement. The incompetent buy a mediocre all in one crap unit such as a 9887 to make up for what a proper install lacks.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Come on Jimmy 7 more posts.....you can do it.....I am taking bets he wont make it 100 posts before he is banned! I know he wont make it to sunrise on the east coast for sure! Are you sure your not audiodave, or audioimages?


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

jimmy2345 said:


> You know....you show how stupid you really are. You can stage and image with proper placement. The incompetent buy a mediocre all in one crap unit such as a 9887 to make up for what a proper install lacks.


I am a kiss fanatic no doubt....BUT you do realize you showed up to a knife fight with a q-tip right?


----------



## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

rexroadj said:


> I am a kiss fanatic no doubt....BUT you do realize you showed up to a gun fight with a q-tip right?


fixed


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Kiss ass....


Kiss my ass, it's clean.



jimmy2345 said:


> You know....you show how stupid you really are. You can stage and image with proper placement. The incompetent buy a mediocre all in one crap unit such as a 9887 to make up for what a proper install lacks.



You know, I'll show you WHERE I sit when I mix in the studio, the image is in front of ME, numb nuts. WHY, WHY, the **** would I have it right of center? To please a 1990's IASCA judge? Tell me that, tell me, when I am the only one driving my ****ing car.

Because you cannot figure out imaging?

Again jimmay, put up something that proves you have an IQ over that of a chimp.


There's no reason to call people names in lieu of you incompetence.

After the money comments I'm waiting on your gear list.

Seems you currently cannot afford the 6 pack I bet on the 790X head-unit /vs the 9887 challenge in the studio. Oh baby, many would be REELING to hear the results of that one if it could get thru a ****ing complete CD without skipping... ON A DESK.


----------



## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

sam3535 said:


> *infracted and banned*:laugh:


Infracted wisdom teeth hurt.


----------



## Mako312 (May 10, 2010)

chad said:


> Kiss my ass, it's clean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll make sure to never get on your bad side lol


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Jimmay's a chickenshit, the guy you call out in HS and won't come to fight...because he has nothing to back it up.... he's a "parking lot shouter."


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Mako312 said:


> I'll make sure to never get on your bad side lol


I'm actually a super easy going guy.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

chad said:


> Jimmay's a chickenshit, the guy you call out in HS and won't come to fight...because he has nothing to back it up.... he's a "parking lot shouter."


Look in the mirror. You have more to say than I do....pussyfoot. 

It won't take you too much longer to get another 22,000 posts....It shouldn't matter though, seeing as your life is a waste to begin with. What else could you be doing?


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Jimmy's knowledge consists of believing an IDMAX 12 has a true sensitivity rating of 93d.:laugh:


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

AWESOME!!!! I brought your weapon jimmy! almost at a 100.....ooo its gonna be close.....


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Look in the mirror. You have more to say than I do....pussyfoot.
> 
> It won't take you too much longer to get another 22,000 posts....It shouldn't matter though, seeing as your life is a waste to begin with. What else could you be doing?


I have all out BEGGED you to post something worthwhile, other than your chickenshit bulshit, and you back in a corner every time.


You are now my laughable toy, almost a challenge to me in the wit department.

Hello sir nothing, you have no knowledge, you are a shell of someone who thinks they are, scared now?

Feels weird doesn't it?

This ain't the mall parking lot.


----------



## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Look in the mirror. You have more to say than I do....pussyfoot.
> 
> It won't take you too much longer to get another 22,000 posts....It shouldn't matter though, seeing as your life is a waste to begin with. What else could you be doing?


you havnt been around long, thats painfully obvious. and lucky for us you wont be.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

jimmy2345 said:


> Look in the mirror. You have more to say than I do....pussyfoot.
> 
> It won't take you too much longer to get another 22,000 posts....It shouldn't matter though, seeing as your life is a waste to begin with. What else could you be doing?


I am going to have to go with the great line from billy madison......
we are all dumber for having heard EVERYTHING you have said and my god have mercy on your soul. 
I am going to go pour some 151 over myself and light a match to burn all the stupid off.....Might have to do the same to my computer just in case!


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

wheelieking71 said:


> you havnt been around long, thats painfully obvious. and lucky for us you wont be.


Oooohhh... another guy who thinks getting banned is the end of life as we know it.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Not to mention, I would bet my net worth that I own more car audio equipment at this very moment than you have in your existence. And that is a fact.


This is something to be proud of?


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Oooohhh... another guy who thinks getting banned is the end of life as we know it.


how's that corner of life treating you? I mean really?


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> You know....you show how stupid you really are. You can stage and image with proper placement.


Like by hanging the left speaker out the side window.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

MarkZ said:


> Like by hanging the left speaker out the side window.


I like these comments....it shows your incompetence/experience. 

Now go buy a processor to make up for what you lack in knowledge. Hey, maybe Chad will help you install it. His system is nothing short of amazing......Ha!


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Holy Christ! is this guy really serious? 
Fubar.....100 posts...damn I hate losing money...thought for sure it was a sure bet!
Jimmydave....please, please explain what exactly you have done or know. that somehow everyone else on here doesnt? So we can hurry up and re-name the forum after you!


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Mods, PLEASE don't ban jimmy. I haven't had this much laughter in ages.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Now go buy a processor to make up for what you lack in knowledge. Hey, maybe Chad will help you install it. His system is nothing short of amazing......Ha!



Mark can do better than I can with that, I prefer to keep things WAY THE **** in front of me.

Although we have common knowledge in processing.

Although again from your corner of the ring, you have brought nothing forward.... chickenshit.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> I like these comments....it shows your incompetence/experience.
> 
> Now go buy a processor to make up for what you lack in knowledge. Hey, maybe Chad will help you install it. His system is nothing short of amazing......Ha!


Cool. You're one of those who feeds his left signal into a center channel.


----------



## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

More than ever... http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/off-topic/86365-can-we-have-ban-popular-demand-section.html


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Jimmay is in the corner again.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Thats not using your dipstick Jimmmay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

rexroadj said:


> Thats not using your dipstick Jimmmay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

chad said:


> chickenshit.


And I dare say a mere glance at his avatar let's you know he understands chickenshit.




jimmy2345 said:


> Not to mention, I would bet my net worth that I own more car audio equipment at this very moment than you have in your existence. And that is a fact.


 I hear it only takes 4 speakers, a head unit, and an amp to know what you're talking about. The rest are just "buying mistakes"


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

audiogodz1 said:


> And I dare say a mere glance at his avatar let's you know he understands chickenshit.


I thought that was a picture of his girlfriend?


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

chad said:


>


So glad someone knew where I was going with that! Thanks chad! the pic makes it all worth while!


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> I thought that was a picture of his girlfriend?



Ahhhh damn...you hit Chad hard with that one. That might make a kid cry, in 1st grade.

Chad, you gonna let him get away with that? (Chad does the Goodfellas scene, and pulls a Joe Pecsi, on the waiter kid, Spider, in this case jimmy)


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)




----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> I thought that was a picture of his girlfriend?


That's a rooster dumb-****, go the the store and ask for rooster eggs :laugh: Actually it's a ****.

I only **** the hens.

And the goats.. You know the trick to goat *****? You wear boots, so you can stuff their back legs in there so they don't run away or kick.

If you don't reply in 30 seconds I know what you are doing.

Go.... And post something intelligent, even if it's an addition "problem."


----------



## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

jimmy2345 said:


> I thought that was a picture of his girlfriend?


Chad...you've been...





tspence'd


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

It's been a minute and a half, he should be done soon


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

chad said:


> That's a rooster dumb-****, go the the store and ask for rooster eggs :laugh:
> 
> I only **** the hens.
> 
> ...


WOW.....if thats not hardcore then I dont know what is! I am not even going to ask how that came about but I do think we can stop trying to get Jimmydave to come up with something intelligent...AINT HAPPENING!!!!!!!!!!
Chad be fair....it would take him 30 sec. to figure out which end is which! You know, which end images better?


----------



## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

chad said:


> That's a rooster dumb-****, go the the store and ask for rooster eggs :laugh: Actually it's a ****.


You wring the neck the same way on all that sh*t.  "I'm a rooster, you can't wring my ......CRACK!" 

Technicality fail.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

audiogodz1 said:


> You wring the neck the same way on all that sh*t.  "I'm a rooster, you can't wring my ......CRACK!"
> 
> Technicality fail.


Nope, the hens taste better, but you have to do it after laying season. I sell the roosters off before winter.

Nothing better for breakfast than a "boneless chicken" fresh out the motherfucking barn.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Uh oh, I see a red name in the Users Viewing This Thread box.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

6spd might be trying to figure out how the **** the points system works.

"How many points for being a royal douchebag?"


----------



## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

On thread topic (gasp!) I think the Ample Audio AP series amps were the most underrated amps pretty much ever. The AP20 and AP22 were pricey for a medium level brand, but built to world class. I wish I could find some gut shots, but they were UNDERRATED and nobody bought them for the price Ample wanted.  Circa 1999


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmay is having goat LOVE


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

chad said:


> Nope, the hens taste better, but you have to do it after laying season. I sell the roosters off before winter.
> 
> Nothing better for breakfast than a "boneless chicken" fresh out the motherfucking barn.


Thanks for filling us in on your farming habits....hillbilly.

Now only if you had the time to audition a real sq vehicle.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

I've seen a few Ample amps, like a couple of mono's that looked great. I know nothing about their internals though.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I'm straight up TELLING you a hen ont eh grill in November is WAY better than a rooster. less gristle, not as gamey. But a good rooster in November will buy buy a ****LOAD of hens at Rural King in chicks come spring.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Thanks for filling us in on your farming habits....hillbilly.
> 
> Now only if you had the time to audition a real sq vehicle.


Show us a video of yours with your cell phone, or use your home phone if you don't have one, and some pocket change and show it vibrating on your roof. If you do that, we'll know you know your ****.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Thanks for filling us in on your farming habits....hillbilly.
> 
> Now only if you had the time to audition a real sq vehicle.


how's life in the corner treating you jimmay?


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

chad said:


> I'm straight up TELLING you a hen ont eh grill in November is WAY better than a rooster. less gristle, not as gamey. But a good rooster in November will buy buy a ****LOAD of hens at Rural King in chicks come spring.


It's called alcoholics anonymous.......worthless.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)




----------



## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

To eliminate issues with the box coloring my speakers sound I simply mounted two free air tens on my headrest facing my head. 

..........actually as a teen I remember picking up subs and not having built a box for them yet I'd hold them up playing a bass cd and with my head in the center they did sound good........ That's pure ESS QUUEE baby, no muddy coloring from a box and resonance of the vehicle.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> It's called alcoholics anonymous.......worthless.


not alcoholic, its called ****ing rednek, get it straight dumb ass.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BTW are your shoulders tired from being shoved in that corner?

Because I'm ready for you to say something more intelligent than my cat.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

chad said:


> BTW are your shoulders tired from being shoved in that corner?
> 
> Because I'm ready for you to say something more intelligent than my cat.


Stop drinking...cats do not talk.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I have a set of antlers I would like to take you hunting with!


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)




----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Stop drinking...cats do not talk.


They do now that I realized that a single synapse could type.

strange things do happen I guess.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

chad said:


> They do now that I realized that a single synapse could type.
> 
> strange things do happen I guess.


Yeah...they happen more often when you can't stop your own alcohol intake. Maybe you should save all that wasted money and buy some better equipment.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Bouncin' around the ring, waiting for the bell while .....










Is in the corner.


almost embarrassing.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Yeah...they happen more often when you can't stop your own alcohol intake. Maybe you should save all that wasted money and buy some better equipment.


Install?....ahhhh screw it, just buy some 20 year old gear.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I'm rebuilding a set of 20 year old JBL4412's while bitching on the internets, too bad the glue is water based.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Jimmy's big contribution has been "install gear correctly." Insightful.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

MarkZ said:


> Jimmy's big contribution has been "install gear correctly." Insightful.


It's probably the best shared information this site has seen....everyone else just want to throw processing at mediocre equipment.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> It's probably the best shared information this site has seen....


How much do we owe you for that ultra valuable info?

OK, shut the site down, the answer we've all been seeking is right here. *Install your gear properly.* Nothing else needs to be discussed. We've been over looking the simple solution all these years. Sort of embarrassing actually.:blush:


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> It's probably the best shared information this site has seen....everyone else just want to throw processing at mediocre equipment.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

89grand said:


> How much do we owe you for that ultra valuable info?
> 
> OK, shut the site down, the answer we've all been seeking is right here. *Install your gear properly.* Nothing else needs to be discussed. We've been over looking the simple solution all these years. Sort of embarrassing actually.:blush:


told ya so! I already proposed we re-name the site Dave...I mean jimmy or maybe so it has a sexy title......dirty jimmy cover?


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> It's probably the best shared information this site has seen....everyone else just want to throw processing at mediocre equipment.


Whereas you want to throw expensive equipment at a mediocre installation. Got it.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

89grand said:


> How much do we owe you for that ultra valuable info?
> 
> OK, shut the site down, the answer we've all been seeking is right here. *Install your gear properly.* Nothing else needs to be discussed. We've been over looking the simple solution all these years. Sort of embarrassing actually.:blush:


Thanks for being a man and admitting you use mediocre equipment that requires tons of processing which in turn left you searching for an answer to bad sound....

Let it be known, that it took me....the so called "uneducated" one to solve this problem. 

All of you can remove your helmets. If you have a seizure...you are on your own.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> Whereas you want to throw expensive equipment at a mediocre installation. Got it.


Well no, you have to install it "properly".


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

89grand said:


> Well no, you have to install it "properly".


And here I've been telling people all this time, "Whatever you do, make sure you install your equipment incorrectly."


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Thanks for being a man and admitting you use mediocre equipment that requires tons of processing which in turn left you searching for an answer to bad sound....
> 
> Let it be known, that it took me....the so called "uneducated" one to solve this problem.
> 
> All of you can remove your helmets. If you have a seizure...you are on your own.


I don't believe you know what gear I have or have had. I don't recall telling you, but maybe you are psychopathic...uhhh, I mean telepathic.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> And here I've been telling people all this time, "Whatever you do, make sure you install your equipment incorrectly."


I know, it's really embarrassing. We've all been doing it.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Jimmy already admitted to being a compulsive hoarder. His obsession goes beyond just goats, you know.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

MarkZ said:


> His obsession goes beyond just goats, you know.


He's a quick learner though, only took him 3 minutes, I timed him.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

quick spermer, you mean.


----------



## Hipnotic4 (Oct 21, 2005)

rexroadj said:


> No disrespect.....I found there amps to be quite usefull in a few different setups....Never had a noise floor issue with them either? Do I run them now? no! I am not a dsp guy...not going to add to that debate..For me its just not worth it. I am happy with extreme KISS but that does not take away from other needs for other situations.... Different strokes.....All this crap is just preference...nothing more nothing less.....Something everyone should think twice about! Its music not pink noise!


yeap same here..when i had them, had zero noise issues..dnt run them now..but they were good..IMO

The price was higgh, but understandable because you were getting a lot..but like most people on here, i never pay retail anyway


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Hipnotic4 said:


> yeap same here..when i had them, had zero noise issues..dnt run them now..but they were good..IMO
> 
> The price was higgh, but understandable because you were getting a lot..but like most people on here, i never pay retail anyway


I repeat, with an active system. I bought 3 of them brand new and they were all equally noisy, in fact they came straight from the factory. Another downside is that they relied heavily on their built in fans and as a result they got very very hot and loud. I've named about half a dozen reasons on my these are some of the most awefull amplifiers ever built. If you can name a few good things about them I'm willing to listen.


----------



## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

It's a shame spence can't be here to get involved...


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> Overrated: internet heroes who are great at copy/paste but, in person, have nothing meaningful to contribute to a conversation.
> 
> Underrated: 'put up or shut up'. Keeping your mind engaged, even if someone on a forum tells you otherwise.
> Having _something_ to back up your claims other than "because I said so".


I'm gonna ask you the same thing you asked me two years ago in this same thread. What got your panties in a bunch?


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

MarkZ said:


>


It looks like he is hard at work to keep it that way.


----------



## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

> jimmy2345
> 
> Banned
> Join Date: Jul 2010
> ...


Is there a quicker ban on this board. Less than a month has to be pretty close to the quickest.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

fertigaudio said:


> Is there a quicker ban on this board. Less than a month has to be pretty close to the quickest.


I've seen people get banned in less than a day on Sounddomain. Not sure what the quickest is here though.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I am just amazed he made it past 100 posts the way he was going!


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

took long enough


----------



## Hipnotic4 (Oct 21, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> I repeat, with an active system. I bought 3 of them brand new and they were all equally noisy, in fact they came straight from the factory. Another downside is that they relied heavily on their built in fans and as a result they got very very hot and loud. I've named about half a dozen reasons on my these are some of the most awefull amplifiers ever built. If you can name a few good things about them I'm willing to listen.


Lets not drag this on...

Obviously they did not work out well for you. That sucks, especially if you paid retail loll..But for me, they worked...had zero issues w/ noise or heat and simply put, they performed well w/ out issues. 

Thats it.


----------



## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Most overrated - People that think just because it is a big name brand it is not worthy.

Most underrated – People who take the time to install correctly with all aspects in mind from the wire to the tune


----------



## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

BLACKonBLACK98 said:


> overrated: people's opinions i.e. "these drivers are the win" followed a week later by "these drivers are the suck", "these speakers are awesome because i heard them sound good in this one install", "these drivers suck because i heard them sound bad in this one install"
> 
> underrated: _truly_ understanding that a driver will preform different in different situations rather than spouting off "it's all in the install"
> 
> ...


You are so right....


----------



## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'm gonna ask you the same thing you asked me two years ago in this same thread. What got your panties in a bunch?


two years ago? wow... you got a good memory or are harboring some resentment. 

Nothing. Just attitudes in general. Feeling guilty?


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Hipnotic4 said:


> Lets not drag this on...
> 
> Obviously they did not work out well for you. That sucks, especially if you paid retail loll..But for me, they worked...had zero issues w/ noise or heat and simply put, they performed well w/ out issues.
> 
> Thats it.


LoL @ you because I got them at cost. Even so I thought these were some of the worst performing/dollar. You either paid what I did or more. If the only thing that gets you excited about them is that they amplified and didn't overheat then you paid way too much. 

This will not drag on because you have made no argument worth considering. About the only thing you came out to do is deny my experience with them , and that is foolish. I never said they overheated or didn't make rated power, I just expect a lot more out of an amplifier and pay far less for it. I have nothing against Kicker, it was just a ****ty product. I don't feel tricked on price because I sold them at 3 times what I bought them for. Unlike you I have no emotional investment in the Kicker garbage. I had no hold-backs selling them for high dollar to an ignorant kid like you.


----------



## Hipnotic4 (Oct 21, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> LoL @ you because I got them at cost. Even so I thought these were some of the worst performing/dollar. You either paid what I did or more. If the only thing that gets you excited about them is that they amplified and didn't overheat then you paid way too much.
> 
> This will not drag on because you have made no argument worth considering. About the only thing you came out to do is deny my experience with them , and that is foolish. I never said they overheated or didn't make rated power, I just expect a lot more out of an amplifier and pay far less for it. I have nothing against Kicker, it was just a ****ty product. I don't feel tricked on price because I sold them at 3 times what I bought them for. Unlike you I have no emotional investment in the Kicker garbage. I had no hold-backs selling them for high dollar to an ignorant kid like you.


Please show me what I wrote that made you feel like I denied your "experience."

It sucks you had a bad run w/ the equipment. Really. I am terribly 
sorry. Some times these things happen 

Gladly I did not:laugh: You should be happy for me.

To each his own.


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Hipnotic4 said:


> Please show me what I wrote that made you feel like I denied your "experience."
> 
> It sucks you had a bad run w/ the equipment. Really. I am terribly
> sorry. Some times these things happen
> ...


It's your arrogant tone. "for you it sucked haha wink wink, for ME they were perfect." You neglected that I bought them straight from factory and went on to make another one of your winks and LOL at me claiming I spent too much and now I'm butt hurt. If you were to be a man about it you'd just say "hey you can't install your gear properly and you overpay for things", it would be wrong nonetheless but not sidestepped with that tone. 

Here's a review thread where both the noise floor and the fan noise come up:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-product-reviews/6375-running-active-setup-using-kicker-sx-amps-dsp.html

You may very well be running passive and your network filters some of the garbage, or maybe your car is gutted and blows past 100db just from road noise. A third option is that your partially deaf. However none of this changes the fact that these are noisy amps, maybe YOU can't test them properly. CEA found these to be hella noisy too. 

Every time I bring the Kickers up some fanboy jumps me. Last time it was very similar, no real argument from the fanboy. He promissed the amplifiers are worth every penny and then vouched with his personal bench tests. Of course he couldn't post them publicly so he promised they would be pm'd. It's been years and I got no pm. All empty talk...

Overrated: Kicker SX unless you have some argument half decent to the point on why it's not and NOT a personal attack.


----------



## Hipnotic4 (Oct 21, 2005)

lollllll your madd about the smilies?:laugh::laugh::laugh:










talk about emotionall


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Not what I had in mind first...there's a whole genre out there


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> two years ago? wow... you got a good memory or are harboring some resentment.
> 
> Nothing. Just attitudes in general. Feeling guilty?


I looked at the first page of this thread to reminisce and you were one of the first to reply

Not feeling guilty at all. A certain troll had it coming...and yes he was trolling.


----------



## nubz69 (Aug 27, 2005)

Overrated: Big bass

Underrated: The ability to tune a system
Underrated: Sony - If you have not seen their new slim line amps or head units, pull your heads out of the early Xplod days!! A lot of people were turned off of them for being all show and no go in the early 2000's, now they are on their way up.
Underrated: Pro audio drivers - They used to be the standard, it's time they were reevaluated by the industry. The best sounding systems, to this day, still use pro audio drivers.


----------



## fertigaudio (Jul 18, 2010)

nubz69 said:


> Overrated: Big bass
> 
> Underrated: The ability to tune a system
> Underrated: Sony - If you have not seen their new slim line amps or head units, pull your heads out of the early Xplod days!! A lot of people were turned off of them for being all show and no go in the early 2000's, now they are on their way up.
> Underrated: Pro audio drivers - They used to be the standard, it's time they were reevaluated by the industry. The best sounding systems, to this day, still use pro audio drivers.


I believe the reason pro audio drivers were the standard years ago was due to their efficiency and the lack of high power amps. Compression Drivers/horns, and pro audio woofers have a very high sensitivity. 

I am not disagreeing with you. There are new products out that include said drivers. 

I personally feel that the best drivers today are ones utilized in home, MTM, and DIY crossover networks, but that is my personal taste.


----------



## Thoraudio (Aug 9, 2005)

Overrated - people who believe their opinion to be fact
Underrated - My opinion


----------



## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:


----------



## nubz69 (Aug 27, 2005)

fertigaudio - You aren't wrong but I believe that it's time to look at pro audio drivers again because of the larger areas cars have to mount drivers and because they do some things right that many drivers don't. Sure there are trade offs but just look that the klippel of the B & C here. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/klippel-reviews-driver-specs/9804-bc-8ndl51-8-8-a.html

It is one of the best drivers around if you can fit it in your doors.


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

nubz69 said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/klippel-reviews-driver-specs/9804-bc-8ndl51-8-8-a.html
> 
> It is one of the best drivers around if you can fit it in your doors.


...and if you can't there are truncated 7" versions that will fit 

While there are many high power amplifiers out nowadays, I think people often overlook the charging system. It is true that even alternators have increased capacity today but nowhere near what we would like. 

Pro audio drivers cover medium sensitivity and high sensitivity ground. Hi-fi drivers often claim to be medium sensitivity but in all honesty they are mostly on the low side. Given the high road noise environment the high output goes a long way. There are also weather treatments on PA gear that can take the beating. They might not be flashy enough for car audio use, an area where hi-fi has more success.


----------



## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

Most overated: Chris' Dodge Ram

Most underated: My Dodge Ram

Chuck


----------



## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

Overrated: the signal-to-noise ratio of this forum
Underrated: input isolation and noise rejection


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

stereo_luver said:


> Most overated: Chris' Dodge Ram
> 
> Most underated: My Dodge Ram
> 
> Chuck


We'll see about that

Who am I kidding? With proper install and tuning yours has a very good chance of blowing mine out of the water but I bet my substage will hit more deebeez than yours:laugh:


----------



## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Most Overrated : Expensive amps

Most Underrated : Tie. Great speakers that don't have to cost the earth and Less IS more.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Re: amplifiers

most overrated: high power amps
most underrated: efficient speakers

most overrated: channel separation
most underrated: mechanical quality of the terminals

most overrated: DIN plugs
most underrated: XLR & neutrik connectors

most overrated: amps without crossovers
most underrated: amps with _defeatable_ crossovers

most overrated: high-bias class A/B
most underrated: good thermal tracking bias circuits

most overrated: underrated amps
most underrated: overrated amps


----------



## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

msmith said:


> Overrated: the signal-to-noise ratio of this forum


 very well put:laugh:


----------



## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Can I use 4-gauge wire for my 25watt tweeters???


----------



## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

TrickyRicky said:


> Can I use 4-gauge wire for my 25watt tweeters???



Sure, but why stop with 4ga when you could use double runs of 750MCM?


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

jp88 said:


> Sure, but why stop with 4ga when you could use double runs of 750MCM?


I've worked with MCM600, it's not beefy enough for 1" tweeters, maybe 3/4".


----------



## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

MarkZ said:


> Re: amplifiers
> 
> most overrated: high power amps
> most underrated: efficient speakers
> ...


Agreed with all, however with point #1 if you have both working in your favor, things get fun really quick....


----------



## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> I've worked with MCM600, it's not beefy enough for 1" tweeters, maybe 3/4".


Fifty pounds of Beef for 3/4" Tweeter! :laugh:


----------

