# 2014 Grand Cherokee Overland Install



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Sooo... was holding off on posting anything, but seeing DavidRam post up his 2018 WK2 - man the inspiration is flowing! Feeling some love for the Grand Cherokees now, and couldn't resist. 

Ours has the 10 speaker Alpine setup. UConnect 8.4 - to a 10 channel amplifier, that feeds a single 3" center channel, 1" tweeters in the sail panels, 6x9" woofers in the front doors, 6.5" speakers in the rear doors, 2.5" speakers way back in the D pillars, and a single 8" sub in the cargo area on the passenger side. 

Thought about reusing the FiX82 and TwK D8 from our 2016 Challenger, but with only eight inputs, couldn't figure out how to get all 10 signals summed into one. Factory amp bypass seemed like the best option. I see PAC has the AmpPro out, and really neat to get the optical add on, but... I've not had luck with PAC products at all in the past. Seems like the people I know that have purchased the AmpPro have had no issues, which is awesome. But the past bad stuff still leaves a pretty bitter opinion from me of their company, so I went another route. Picked up a Rockford Fosgate DSR1 along with the plug and play harness for the WK2. Amp bypass, eight channels of output with DSP built in. And, that's about as far as I made it.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Speaker locations:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

So, originally, my thoughts were, could carry everything over from the Challenger. 

NVX X-series XSPTW Tweeters (front doors)
NVX X-series XSP65 6.5" Woofers (front doors)
NVX X-series XSP525 5.25" Woofers (rear fill?)
NVX X-series XQW124 12" Subwoofers (on each side of the cargo area)
Pair of JL Audio HD900/5 Amplifiers 

Thought about bridging for the 6.5" Woofers in the front doors, but then the idea struck, why not double rear fill? No, not THAT kind. The 5.25" in the rear doors, and maybe the matching SB Acoustics that these NVX X-series speakers are based on? They have a 4" version, could be perfect? 

Well... the sub idea was a bust. Bradknobs had already warned me about there not being much space on the driver's side due to the fuel filler and factory amplifier being there.



Snuck a peek without pulling the panel, and he's right. There is hardly any room there. 

So where else do we put the subs and amps? Here I guess:



Losing the spare tire is not something I'm a fan of, but... we plan on upgrading the tire size on this Jeep since they can tuck 32" tires no problem. Being AWD, would need a taller spare, that won't fit in the tire well anyways. So why not.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Alright, let's rip some stuff apart!!!







Say, that's one cute little speaker:





And let's get this booger out of there:



Wait a minute. Cute, little... speaker... uhhhh... will the SB Acoustics 4" even fit?



That would be a great big, NO. Check it out compared to the 5.25" NVX:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Well, what about this?





Or this?



Maybe like this?



Messing around with tweeter/midrange distances - those baffles on the tweeters were from the Challenger, just never bothered to take them off yet:





Well, if going through all that trouble, why not the 5.25" instead?





On second thought, that might be a bit much:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Anywho, that's as far as we've made it. Still bouncing around tons of ideas. Was pretty sold two days ago on just going with the NVX speakers and subs, and keep it basic 2 way, rear fill, and the subs. But then DavidRam posts his thread, and all the other Grand Cherokee owners posting their setups, gets the daydream gears grinding again.

MoparMike has been helping out tremendously with actually getting motivated, so ordered up all the wiring needed to at least get the processor and amps installed, then can do some listening tests from there.

Anyone happen to know what color the trim pieces are? It's kinda between bronze and like a vintage brass. Thinking about painting the amps to match it:


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Sub'd for this! Great looking GC, man! Thanks for all the great info too...


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Hey, teamwork makes the dreamwork!!!

Hoping no one thinks I might be bashing that PAC piece, because definitely am not. At least five people I personally know using it have had zero issues. And heck, if it would be a better choice to take this install to the level it needs to be, would definitely consider it. 

It's great that there are now options to retain the factory head units, but still get great sound.


----------



## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Very nice, cant wait for more


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Dan I’m feeling that no matter which set up you go with, the craftsmanship will be top notch. I say lose the spare and do a roof mount carrier for it. Fortunately for me with my Ram, the spare is under it so I have the full interior space to mess with. I also sent you an email about wheels for my Ram.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Hopefully there will be lots more soon!

Here are some measurements from the driver's seat. Was just playing around with where to place the speakers and such:



The top measurements are if going with a 3 way setup, tweeters in the sail panels, midranges in the A-pillars, and woofers in the stock door locations. 

The bottom measurements were a crazy theory, about tweeters in the sail panels, putting the midranges in the stock door locations, and then maybe putting the midbass in the kicks, under the seats, or the rear doors. 

Kicks would be awkward I think, on the driver's side at least. Mostly due to the E-brake position. There is plenty of room on the passenger side to try a single 8" subwoofer in a sealed enclosure though, right under the dash. Maybe crossed up to 125Hz? Just a theory. I did an install similar to that years ago and enjoyed it. 

Under the seats are out of the question for us, because of all the Overland electronics. The battery is under the passenger seat, and under the driver seat is this big ole compartment, but I believe if you have the Quadra-Lift Suspension, the electronics for it are stuffed in there. Sucks, because there is definitely space for a 8" or 10" subwoofer there if you don't have all that. 

Rear doors, I haven't ruled that out yet. Can't see why it wouldn't work, even with just a pair of 6.5" woofers covering a narrow bandwidth. Those 5.25" should easily play down to 125, so from there to 80 or 63Hz shouldn't be an issue for a healthy 6.5" - but then I see ndm post up about how to fit 8" midbass in his front doors, and wow. That is pretty awesome right there. 

Here is a picture of the Quadra-Lift in it's highest setting. Wheelgap, anyone?


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Coppertone said:


> Dan I’m feeling that no matter which set up you go with, the craftsmanship will be top notch. I say lose the spare and do a roof mount carrier for it. Fortunately for me with my Ram, the spare is under it so I have the full interior space to mess with. I also sent you an email about wheels for my Ram.


Oooooh that is hawt right there. Love how they trimmed around the speakers on the door too. Wish our GC had that


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

You can have that also as I believe there’s a company that makes bendable plastic. I’ll see if I can find the link.


----------



## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Yay, bout time. I’m in!


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

chithead said:


> So, originally, my thoughts were, could carry everything over from the Challenger.


I'm with you on trying to carry over as much as possible... Does that plastic liner come out easily?? Do you know how much width is gained by removing it??


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Hmmm... I didn't even try to be honest. Have seen some with it removed, because in front of it, behind the rear seats, there is a bit of space there. Saw where another install had some JL HD amps hidden there, well protected. And of course I said Woohoo!!! Until you find out that's where the air tank is for the Quadra-Lift suspension!!!

This is one of the blogs where I get a lot of useful information from:

https://www.2180miles.com

Some pics of what he did with that spot for a dual battery setup:


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

chithead said:


> Hmmm... I didn't even try to be honest. Have seen some with it removed, because in front of it, behind the rear seats, there is a bit of space there. Saw where another install had some JL HD amps hidden there, well protected. And of course I said Woohoo!!! Until you find out that's where the air tank is for the Quadra-Lift suspension!!!
> 
> This is one of the blogs where I get a lot of useful information from:
> 
> ...


Very helpful, thanks!! It looks like there is little to be gained by removing it...


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

DavidRam said:


> Very helpful, thanks!! It looks like there is little to be gained by removing it...


I'm thinking your enclosure may actually fit towards the back there, closer to the hatch opening.


----------



## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

I got 5.5cuft enclosure by removing mine. Plenty of space to be had.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

chithead said:


> I'm thinking your enclosure may actually fit towards the back there, closer to the hatch opening.


I'll check it thanks... Sorry, I didn't want to make your thread about my issues.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Never an issue my friend! Just happy to have the conversation. Just part of being a car audio junkie!!!

See what I did there ^^^ My fellow Car. Audio. Junkies.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

chithead said:


> Never an issue my friend! Just happy to have the conversation. Just part of being a car audio junkie!!!
> 
> See what I did there ^^^ My fellow Car. Audio. Junkies.


For sure! Lol

What will you be doing with your tweeters??


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Looks like things are off to a great start Danno. Now lock down a plan and make it happen!

And fully realizing I'm hijacking this thread I also know it has the attention of Grand Cherokee owners and other Mopar junkies. If anyone knows where I can get that big plastic tire well insert and the window sail trim with factory tweeters without getting ripped off I would be eternally grateful. Seems near impossible to find through salvage yards and Dad told me to start collecting replacement pieces to replace what I had to cut NOW. Going back to a truck in a little over two years when the bumper to bumper warranty runs out. I actually tow with my vehicle and would feel a lot better with my hitch bolted to the frame vs repaired metal after the wreck twisted things up and not knowing the track record of the welder who did it.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

DavidRam said:


> For sure! Lol
> 
> What will you be doing with your tweeters??


Good question. Debating on whether to make pods that might attach to the factory trim, or just fabricate that trim piece to accommodate those tweeters. Those NVX/SB have a big ole housing


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Booty shots for anyone curious about the NVX X-series subs:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Alright, so first thing's first. Let's do some installing!!!

Started out, with fresh oil. Yeah yeah, I still do my own oil changes. Or so I thought. Put my socket on bolt, went to turn it, and... nothing. What the? Tugged a bit more, and... nothing. So I spun the wrench around, to get an upward push, and... pop. Oh yeah baby, there we go, wait. Oh no... yup. It's stripped. And not the tequila induced late night on the beach kind of stripped. Great. Got the vise grips, nope. Bought this handy bolt extractor socket set, and those really grab as advertised. But, still won't budge. 



So, called the dealer, preparing for a battle. Read online someone was quoted $1150 to pull the engine up and replace the pan because of it. But it was their dang fault. Can obviously tell they used an air tool to put the bolt back on, so yeah. Was all ready to have it out, and the guy says, you did what? I explained again, he said, no problem. No problem? Yup, happens all the time, bring it on up here, we'll take care of it. $54 later for the cost a dealer oil change, and they indeed fixed it.



Cool! First mod to the Jeep done!


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

So today was a good day, got a head start on the wiring:



Never used 1/0 before, it's some hefty stuff for sure:



Love me some techflex and heat shrink:



Getting all the routing planned out and accounted for, looks like it should work well:



Asked a few friends whether to use a fuse or circuit breaker, was surprised by the votes for a breaker. Went ahead and plucked one from the install parts bin and secured it directly to the battery cover under the passenger seat (MoparMike is the man for suggesting this!!!)



Note to self, always read the IN and OUT on the breaker - had to turn it around:



That's ok though, cut the power wire just a little bit long for routing, so that worked out even better. Still under 18" though!!!

Hopefully soon, will see these goodies going in:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Talk about a last minute realization. Looks like the harness needs to come back apart. For a silly reason too. 

Planned on bridging to the front door woofers. So instead of running larger gauge, I just twisted two pairs together. But, now... having difficulty locating which wires are attached to which on the Maestro harness. I know, I know. Should have labeled all this before techflex and heatshrinking the chit out of it. Lesson learned. Hopefully, can just cut that piece of heatshrink covering the connections and narrow it down right there. Thinking about untwisting those pairs too and not bridging. The HD900/5 doesn't really double power when bridged, just bumps from 100 to 150 watts. Not a huge difference, and I'd rather have that extra set of channels available should the desire to add a set of midranges in the A-pillars occurs later on. Plus with both amps most likely being hidden under the rear cargo floor cover, really would like them to have as less stress on them as possible, to avoid more heat.


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

You don't own a cheap DMM to check the wires for continuity and identify them?


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Well, kind of. Do have an older Craftsman DMM - but it's on the way out. Screen doesn't light up half the time, so a new one has been on the list of wants for a while. Next plan of action was to just hook up a radio to the wires, then check with a speaker on the other end to identify, but I want to pull apart those twisted pairs anyways.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

So, here is the pair of HD900/5:



Difficult to tell from that picture, but one amp looks pretty decent:



The other one though, has this:



And this:



Very confident that it would clean up easy enough, but the scratch/swirl marks - can barely feel it in one spot. It's more like rub marks than a scratch. Debating on whether to try and sand that mark out, vinyl wrap, or paint them. Any thoughts?


----------



## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

chithead said:


> So, here is the pair of HD900/5:
> 
> Very confident that it would clean up easy enough, but the scratch/swirl marks - can barely feel it in one spot. It's more like rub marks than a scratch. Debating on whether to try and sand that mark out, vinyl wrap, or paint them. Any thoughts?


I've seen some vinyl wrap on amps look awesome, besides being easy and affordable. Definitely gives an amp that unique "one-off" look besides being able to cover-up some aesthetic blemishes.










^ I believe these were ErinH's.









...and another example.


----------



## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Vinyl wrap in brushed aluminum?...


----------



## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

plasti-dip dozens of colors to chose from

https://www.dipyourcar.com/collections/aerosol-colors


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I agree with vinyl wrap! Quick and easy to do, and excellent results... Like Brad said, the brushed aluminum looks good, but I would use the black or dark gray brushed aluminum. The "silver" brushed aluminum doesn't look very realistic...

I have at least a sample of almost every popular vinyl wrap in my garage, as I use it a lot. Lol


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Do they have a brushed bronze? I'd really like to match that dash trim color if possible.

The brushed titanium looks really nice too.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

chithead said:


> Do they have a brushed bronze? I'd really like to match that dash trim color if possible.
> 
> The brushed titanium looks really nice too.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Avery-Supr...hash=item1c7ec27937:m:mNAHG_UJEJbAGA9GD-ODdkg

Some place will send you samples for cheap...


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

So, another afterthought. Didn't realize those subs are a bit wide - far as the mounting flange. Almost 27.25" across for both together. With only 33" of room towards the front of the spare tire well, that leaves very little wiggle room for spacing between the subs, and any sort of trim piece. On the flip side, the amps are about 21.25" wide, and would have quite a bit of room between them if set towards the rear. That is not drawn to scale but represented by Figure No.2 in the ever impressive Post-It Note drawings posted below. Figure No.1 is an interesting concept, but kinda looks crowded to me near the second sub. But, Figure No.3, by reversing the placement, amps towards the front, subs towards the rear, looks like it would balance better. However, the amp connections are on one side, controls on the opposite. Which means I can have moderate access to the controls, but all wiring is pushed towards the front should any troubleshooting be necessary, or flip flop, have access to the wiring side, but then control side is inaccessible unless the amps are removed. I'm thinking... how often do you really have to disconnect the wires. Control access, priority in this case. Cool beans.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Hmmm...



And hmmm...



Well that's interesting:



The floor actually closes. With the motors setting on the very bottom, and the floor touching the surrounds, of course:



So, let's try one out, see how it does off just 500 watts:



Should be able to test this weekend.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

chithead said:


> So, another afterthought. Didn't realize those subs are a bit wide - far as the mounting flange. Almost 27.25" across for both together. With only 33" of room towards the front of the spare tire well, that leaves very little wiggle room for spacing between the subs, and any sort of trim piece. On the flip side, the amps are about 21.25" wide, and would have quite a bit of room between them if set towards the rear. That is not drawn to scale but represented by Figure No.2 in the ever impressive Post-It Note drawings posted below. Figure No.1 is an interesting concept, but kinda looks crowded to me near the second sub. But, Figure No.3, by reversing the placement, amps towards the front, subs towards the rear, looks like it would balance better. However, the amp connections are on one side, controls on the opposite. Which means I can have moderate access to the controls, but all wiring is pushed towards the front should any troubleshooting be necessary, or flip flop, have access to the wiring side, but then control side is inaccessible unless the amps are removed. I'm thinking... how often do you really have to disconnect the wires. Control access, priority in this case. Cool beans.


I vote for # 3. 

Make it so you can access controls from inside with the rear seats folded down?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Keep the subs as close to the back as possible if firing up. Just my honest opinion after my experience with upfiring a 15" in my tire well. It worked but feel it would have been way better if I could have mounted it as far to the back as possible in that upfire configuration. You're ditching the spare so options are wide open.


----------



## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

I vote subs as far back as possible also.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Sooo... decided to check some things real quick. Simply because, I REALLY want to take this install up a level. Not just in output, but mostly for pure everyday enjoyable bliss. And yes, having strong output on the subs is desirable, of course. But, having said that, do I REALLY want to fabricate an entire floor to have that? We use the crap out of this Jeep, every day. So cargo space is a must, as well as being very durable. To fit the GZ subs, would have to raise that floor at least 3.5 inches. Not too bad. But is it worth it? Well, let's see. The graphs are where I modeled five different sub setups, using three different subwoofers. The Green line represents four NVX VS 15" subs in a 5.5 cubic foot sealed enclosure, Blue is four Peerless XLS 12" in the same size sealed enclosure. Pink is the four NVX VS 15" in a 5.2 cube ported enclosure tuned to 33Hz, Yellow is the four Peerless XLS 12" in the same enclosure, and Red are the pair of GZ 15" in the same 5.2 subes tuned to 33Hz ported enclosure. 



Check out them GZ subs! I mean, dayum. Might be worth it after all. Those Peerless XLS 12" still seem like a fantastic deal though, especially for $160 right now. And if you buy four or more, $140 each


----------



## -Kyle- (Feb 5, 2009)

chithead said:


> Sooo... decided to check some things real quick. Simply because, I REALLY want to take this install up a level. Not just in output, but mostly for pure everyday enjoyable bliss. And yes, having strong output on the subs is desirable, of course. But, having said that, do I REALLY want to fabricate an entire floor to have that? We use the crap out of this Jeep, every day. So cargo space is a must, as well as being very durable. To fit the GZ subs, would have to raise that floor at least 3.5 inches. Not too bad. But is it worth it? Well, let's see. The graphs are where I modeled five different sub setups, using three different subwoofers. The Green line represents four NVX VS 15" subs in a 5.5 cubic foot sealed enclosure, Blue is four Peerless XLS 12" in the same size sealed enclosure. Pink is the four NVX VS 15" in a 5.2 cube ported enclosure tuned to 33Hz, Yellow is the four Peerless XLS 12" in the same enclosure, and Red are the pair of GZ 15" in the same 5.2 subes tuned to 33Hz ported enclosure.
> 
> 
> 
> Check out them GZ subs! I mean, dayum. Might be worth it after all. Those Peerless XLS 12" still seem like a fantastic deal though, especially for $160 right now. And if you buy four or more, $140 each


I'm thinking about buying a cherokee or GC. If you're going to that much work removing the spare, etc and wanting to retain cargo space, you might consider glassing an SI BM or 2 in the corners. Just throwing it out there as another option.


----------



## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

-Kyle- said:


> I'm thinking about buying a cherokee or GC. If you're going to that much work removing the spare, etc and wanting to retain cargo space, you might consider glassing an SI BM or 2 in the corners. Just throwing it out there as another option.




Dudes considering 4-15”s, he certainly won’t be happy with 2 SI subs lol.


Ha e you tried modeling 3-15” sealed? 5.5 cubes seems a little small for 4


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

bradknob said:


> Dudes considering 4-15”s, he certainly won’t be happy with 2 SI subs lol.
> 
> 
> Ha e you tried modeling 3-15” sealed? 5.5 cubes seems a little small for 4


You're right, 5.5 is just not enough at all. I guess the biggest issue with three, is figuring out the wiring. Wanted to use that pair of five channels to power them, so only have 2 channels at 500 watts each for sub duty. May have to look at other amplification options.


----------



## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I'd look into a single 15 or 18", maybe a pair at most. Better to have the low end extension. That's plenty of cone area to get loud in an SQ setting.





Maybe look at the Dayton RSS390HO. Very inexpensive, nice sensitivity (less power required) and great performance.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Remember TC Sounds? Found one of their early TC1000 15" locally. Man that thing jams, and on just 350 watts too!!!


----------



## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Yeah those are nice subs.


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

chithead said:


> Well, kind of. Do have an older Craftsman DMM - but it's on the way out. Screen doesn't light up half the time, so a new one has been on the list of wants for a while. Next plan of action was to just hook up a radio to the wires, then check with a speaker on the other end to identify, but I want to pull apart those twisted pairs anyways.


You can probably afford this...

*Amazon Tacklife DM01M Digital Multimeter*


The install is coming along nicely. Good luck on the subwoofer dilemma. I always bounce back & forth between practicality/utility and having the ultimate/[email protected] setup as well.


----------



## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I can also recommend this one as I purchased one not long ago. Current measurment up to 20A as well.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071CY4SF1/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

_chithead_, you might just want to check that the batteries are good in your old Craftsman DMM if you haven't already. That might be all that's wrong with it. If you've already checked them, disregard and carry on.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Hey thank you guys for those recommendations! I'll double check the batteries, but will pursue one of those other two you suggested if the Craftsman DMM is for sure kaput. 

Hooked up one of the HD900/5 to that single sub this weekend to test output, response, etc. - made the assumption before hand that 500 watts each just wouldn't be enough for these mammoths with their rather extreme power ratings. 

Boy, was I wrong. Just using my phone as the source unit, that single sub was crazy. 500 watts was plenty for sure. Volume wasn't as loud as it's capable of I'm sure, as the phone isn't the highest voltage output device - but it was still enough to rattle the garage door!!! So that pretty well sealed the deal, that 15" subwoofers is the avenue I would like to take on this build. However, after preparing for an upcoming vacation next month, it was decided that no, can't raise the floor to accommodate the GZ monsters. So, on the hunt for a pair of 15" subwoofers that work in the available space, but also fit the height requirement as well.


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

Love the progress and your GC! Did you get the mirror caps painted?

Can't wait to see how this goes.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

brett said:


> Love the progress and your GC! Did you get the mirror caps painted?
> 
> Can't wait to see how this goes.


Thanks! It's ironic you posted, just yesterday, took a complete left turn with the direction of this build. I'll definitely reveal more details as they unfold, but will be trying to keep it a bit stealthier now. Trying to decide on an Image Dynamics subwoofer that will work well in the factory subwoofer location over the wheel well there. 

The mirrors were painted white when we bought it. I've seen a lot of them that are chrome though, thought maybe that was an option. You think the previous owner might have had them painted?


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

yeah, all domestic overlands (not high altitudes) should have chrome mirror caps. i expect those were changed or painted at some point. i honestly like the painted ones better and am considering doing that to my 11 overland.

and, as far as stealth build goes, it can be accomplished. i've been struggling with this jeep for 2 years now trying to maximize space. i see everybody immediately ditches the spare, but with it being 4x4, i really don't like the idea of losing it. you're right, there's no room on the left side except for maybe a dsp at best. the right side, however, has tons of room especially if you're willing to cut a little metal. i took my dremel out and cut and found that there's quite a bit of space back there. you could easily fit one 15 back there. there's room for two, barely, but i doubt you'll find the right airspace (which i've not yet calculated).


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Wholly schmolly! That is awesome news!!! Do you know the approximate depth of that area? I keep debating between either the IDQ 12 or the IDMAX, but wasn't sure which to lean towards due to whether the IDMAX could fit or not.


----------



## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

brett said:


> the right side, however, has tons of room especially if you're willing to cut a little metal. i took my dremel out and cut and found that there's quite a bit of space back there. you could easily fit one 15 back there. there's room for two, barely, but i doubt you'll find the right airspace (which i've not yet calculated).


Now that's a cool idea. I want to see that happen.


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

i'was thinking of doing a 15 myself. If you mold an enclosure and extend the bottom part into the spare area, you could gain more capacity.

i'll try to take some depth measurements tonight and post the pics. then, assuming you ditch the spare anyway, you could make an awesome amp rack, etc. i was thinking of maybe using the space in the middle of the spare for amps, but it is really, really cramped. i have an oem wheel, which is much more concave and provides more room, but with a tire mounted, the width (which is depth in the spare area really) is about an inch or more too tall. 

also, do you plan on using the stock hu i assume? im thinking of trading toward a 14+ and want to know if the signal out of the 8.4 will be good enough to send to a dsp?


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

I am planning to keep the stock UConnect. Have had tons of great recommendations for the PAC Amp Pro to get a flat signal for a DSP. A Rockford Fosgate DSR1 is sitting in the garage right now, and will be my first weapon of choice. At least want to give it a shot and see if it's any good. I know of a few people that actually compete with the factory 8.4, and one macho dude that has taken home a few high scores.


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

right on, that's encouraging. i know brad uses a separate source unit for his with good results. im just hoping for the path of least resistance. for the time being i would be using my 360.3, but i'll look into that pac unit too.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Nothing wrong with the 360.3 - only reason I went with the DSR1 and not the JL Audio FiX 82 was because this Jeep has the Alpine system with 10 outputs. The FiX only has 8 inputs, and wouldn't have been able to completely sum the entire signal. Figured it best to just bypass the beast, and take a much easier route.


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

hopefully these help. sorry for the quality if they're hard to see/make out. but, i honestly think you'd be able to fit just about any 15 in there.

also, for reference, the first two are from the left side. as you can see there's still a 'grommet' of sorts that provides more depth, but it's still not really useful for much besides wiring, etc. the factory amp, in my jeep anyway, sits below that and appears to be easily removed.

don't be afraid to cut as that piece i removed does not appear to be structural at all. i didn't cut all the way down to the wheel well and it left a seam. i don't think my little dremel would've cut through that anyway. and, fwiw, i went through about 10 discs doing this. and, it makes a horrible loud noise when cutting, so i had to leave my apt complex and drive down to a commercial area, plug the dremel into the 120v outlet and cut. you will need to get a plastic drop sheet to mask off and cover the area as well.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

That is awesome! Think I'm gonna pursue the IDQ 12 then based on that information. May revisit the IDMAX concept one day in the future.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Well ok. Here's the official new plan. Tweeters in the stock sail panel locations. 6x9" woofers in the stock front door locations. 6.5" woofers in the stock rear door locations. And a single 12" subwoofer in the stock location over the rear wheel well. Keep it as simple as possible, but still achieve an enjoyable sound. 

Found a set of Image Dynamics XS69 woofers here in the classifieds that kinda triggered this new direction. That led to a set of XS65 woofers on eBay, which then led to a set of XS28 tweeters... that led to a Classifieds search for Image Dynamics subwoofers. Found an IDQ 12 V3 there (he also has an IDMAX 12 that is super tempting) - and so it begins. May have found an amplifier that will round out the rest of this setup perfectly. If not... well there is always more amps out there  

Only thing that's arrived so far with this new, "genius" plan - are the tweeters. Image Dynamics XS28 - will be trying to fit these as seamless as possible into the stock sail panel locations.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

chithead said:


> Well ok. Here's the official new plan. Tweeters in the stock sail panel locations. 6x9" woofers in the stock front door locations. 6.5" woofers in the stock rear door locations. And a single 12" subwoofer in the stock location over the rear wheel well. Keep it as simple as possible, but still achieve an enjoyable sound.
> 
> Found a set of Image Dynamics XS69 woofers here in the classifieds that kinda triggered this new direction. That led to a set of XS65 woofers on eBay, which then led to a set of XS28 tweeters... that led to a Classifieds search for Image Dynamics subwoofers. Found an IDQ 12 V3 there (he also has an IDMAX 12 that is super tempting) - and so it begins. May have found an amplifier that will round out the rest of this setup perfectly. If not... well there is always more amps out there
> 
> Only thing that's arrived so far with this new, "genius" plan - are the tweeters. Image Dynamics XS28 - will be trying to fit these as seamless as possible into the stock sail panel locations.



Sounds like a great, stealth-ish plan to me!


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

just saying....


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

IDQ 12 v.3 showed up today. Not bad at all for the price.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

More goodies arrived:


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Hehe those 6.5's look so cute next to those big ol x9's.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Right? Didn't get to give them a good listen yet, but a quick hook up and check to make sure all of them worked... wholly moly. Those bynines can pump.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

You'll like having the cone area of 8's for midbass AND midrange.


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

chithead said:


> More goodies arrived:


Iloved my xs65 I had. Very nice midrange. Midbass was lacking though.
Only thing I was pissed about was thier longevity. 4 years and the cone pulled away from the surround. Expect more from a $300 pair of 6.5

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Sooooo, this happened tonight:



More pics for reference to other WK2 owners:









The factory tweeter harness comes apart at the lower portion of the plug, easy to do before removing from the window trim piece:



By pushing in three tabs, you can then remove the tweeter:

[/QUOTE]


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Here is a Morel MT22 for reference to anyone considering them:



And for anyone considering the Image Dynamics XS28, we gonna have our work cut out for us (literally):


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

The Image Dynamics XS69 compared to the factory 6x9:







Added some weatherstripping:



Did a little bit of trimming (the Image Dynamics XS69 wouldn't fit into the factory cutout with the excessive amount of weatherstripping on the inside of the cutout):



Mounts right up with the factory screws (didn't even have to trim that plastic, "pin" towards the bottom):


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Right. So those fit. Now what. How do we get power to them? 

Found this diagram that will hopefully help tomorrow - 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Audio Wire Color Schematic

Had to dig through my speaker connectors to find some that fit. The positive terminal on the 6x9 are rather wide:



Alright, got that done. Something I've never been smart enough to put together though, is a plug and play harness. So why not try it now? Cut the plug off the factory bynine:



Bent the tabs on the sides back around behind the plug, to make it easier for soldering:



And now tomorrow, we should be able to assemble a neat little adapter harness:


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Are you going to run wire into the door boots? If so I suggest 16g zip cord or something else that has a somewhat thin insulation. You can thank me laterThe passenger side wasn't too big of a fight but the driver's side involved slightly more ******* ingenuity and foul language. You lived in Arkansas for several years so you should be fine in that regardI'll send you pics to help you along if you need me to.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Probably not going to mess with running new wires. Should work just fine to use the factory stuff for this install. Hopefully. Fingers crossed.

Started on the adapters this morning:



Soldering the first connector:



Little bit of heatshrink never hurt nobody:



And, voila!!!



One down, three more to go.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Nice, clean work right there!!


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Thank you sir!!!

Harnesses were a bit snug, but worked perfect:



For anyone curious more about how I did it, this is the factory speaker connector:



Snipped the voice coil leads, used a flathead screwdriver to pry them free from the stamped basket. Then with a pair of mini needle nose, began bending the arms of the connections back around:





Heard some things about the Image Dynamics XS component speakers being prone to picking up moisture and debris, and just happened to have a set of XTC 6.5" baffles laying around. Modified them a bit and used for all four doors:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Rear door reference pictures for any other WK2 owners:









As you can see, factory speaker is three screws. Aftermarket speaker, four screws. Uh oh. Aligned the replacement speaker best as possible to get it in the middle of the cutout:



As it happens, the Image Dynamics XS28 set I purchased from Woofers Etc. came with a lot of extra stuff, and just happened to include these handy things:



Much more secure than trying to screw into that little bit of material on the door:



So, progress for today, all four door speakers have been swapped: 





Will work on the sail panels and tweeters tomorrow.


----------



## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Nice job man!


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Oh, I need to point out too - that wiring diagram link I posted above, it worked, for the driver's door. But when I moved straight back to the passenger door on the driver's side, the wire colors didn't match. Immediately tore the passenger side apart to find out, yup. Colors didn't match. Found this link instead with a TON of information - Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2 Series: 2011-2019

There is a link for these documents: 

http://www.wk2jeeps.com/audio/2014_wk_premium1_audio_diagram.pdf

http://www.wk2jeeps.com/audio/2014_wk_premium2_audio_diagram.pdf

Premium 2 worked for me - colors matched up. Funny thing though, feel I should point this out to anyone wanting to use those factory speaker connectors to make a harness... DOUBLE check the diagram!!! I lined them all up, and was about to solder all the wires the same, and then it kinda clicked. Wait a minute. The front door negative, is on the right side of the connector, but the rear door negative, is on the left side. Or was it? Went out to the Jeep again to check, wrote it down, made sure I had the color and orientation correct, went back inside, looked at the diagram, and huh? Again, went back out to the Jeep, triple checked, and yup. The negatives are swapped on the factory terminals. If you used a harness for the rear doors, it's backwards on the front doors. After eyeballing the factory speakers though, it made sense. They use the same connector, but the orientation on how it attaches to the basket determines that it is backwards on the front doors. Just wanted to mention that in case someone tries to rush through this, and ends up with some phase issues.


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

My Toyota was like that too. You have to take the panel of anyway. Might well note the wire colors

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

So after some pondering and measuring, and deciding to keep going with this as factory as possible install theme... did some work tonight on the sail panels. Fingers crossed, as I really hope this idea works. 

The Image Dynamics XS28 tweeters are pretty hefty. Larger than a Morel MT22 even. 

This is the flush trim ring that comes with them:



And this is what they look like after some minor surgery:



The tweeters thread onto the trim piece, and there is another piece that thread onto the back to hold them in an A pillar or other mounting material. After unsuccessfully attempting surgery on the other piece, decided to separate the threaded barrel from the grille mounting surface. Why? Because the tweeters just barely miss fitting into the stock opening. They do however fit perfect, if they could be mounted from behind the ring. So, how do we accomplish that? This is my idea:



Whipped up a batch of the good stuff:







And now, we wait. Hopefully the adhesive works, and can just screw the tweeters right into the factory spot. Will figure out the grille option once we know whether this works or not. The XS28 grille almost fits into the lip around the factory opening, so may massage it just a bit in order for them to sit snugly.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Early morning tests confirm, it worked! They held very well, no spinning while trying to tighten into the mounts, flexing, cracking, nothing. So now, we move on to modifying some grilles


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

So it turns out that the rear retaining ring on the tweeters happens to be the same inside diameter as the factory sail panels:





And here is where the grille just barely doesn't work in that spot:



So, using that ring as a template, along with a pair of mini pliers, folded the bottom inwards, then back out to create a flange on the XS28 grille, that fits much better:





It actually snaps into place on the retaining ring. I'm not sure it will do that on the sail panels though, probably will use some butyl adhesive just for extra holding power (especially when closing the doors and such)


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Looking good. I never was any good at fabrication like that

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Looking great, man! Those are still gonna look factory, yet a lot higher end than the plastic crap...


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Not exactly what I hoped for, but they'll work:


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Looks damn nice to me. Much better than I could do

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Nawwww, if I can do it, you can too!!!


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

chithead said:


> Nawwww, if I can do it, you can too!!!


Lol. I am of the measure 4 times, check the fit 3 times, cut once. Still doesn't ****in fit! Lol

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

minbari said:


> Lol. I am of the measure 4 times, check the fit 3 times, cut once. Still doesn't ****in fit! Lol
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Cut 3 times and it's still too short? lol. 

Looks good Chit. Better than I could have done for sure.


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Cut 3 times and it's still too short? lol.
> 
> Looks good Chit. Better than I could have done for sure.


Exactly! Lol

I have gotten to the point where I purposely cut 1/4" to long. Can Always cut more

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Soooo, maybe, kinda, sorta... wanted to try another direction with the subwoofer 







Compared to the IDQ 12:


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

The picture makes the subs look deformed:laugh:


----------



## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> The picture makes the subs look deformed:laugh:[/QUO
> 
> nugenix that id max is taking nugenixs!!


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Decided to tear into the Jeep a bit more this morning. Got the spare tire tray and all out to find, whaaaaattttt?!?! An awesome location to hide amps and such, if you don't have the Quadra Lift Air Suspension. But if you do, well you get this nifty shiny silver air tank there instead:



Great. Ok, whatever. Moving on. Passenger side panel removed:







Ok, one, two, three nuts securing it. Remove them, unplug the harness, and here ya go:





Well what's behind here I wonder?



Do you think it's supposed to be spread out into the cavity, or neatly rolled up like this? 



Pretty good amount of room in there:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

So, who else is wondering what I'm wondering...



Yup yup yup:



It's possible... a bit of engineering involved, but definitely a possibility. This piece wouldn't be difficult to cut at all for even more room, and doesn't seem to do anything structurally (it's very flimsy if you wiggle the center section):



Ok, cool. What about the other side?



Amps could possibly fit here, right?

Uhhhh, no. Not where I wanted them anyways. Wanted to hide them behind the carpeted section, and build a mesh vent there instead to cover both. But:



As you can see, the amps put together are a bit lengthy. Not only that, but they don't seem to fit down into this space either between the wheelwell and panel:



Well, crud. Now what? Vertically, replacing the factory amp?



Nope, not enough depth:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Anybody got an idea on where they could go?



Or another 6 channels plus single sub channel options?


----------



## chesapeakesoja (Apr 9, 2009)

With the QuadraLift system, you don't have many options. Ditch the spare and there's tons of room. I don't have that system and am still running without my spare for the time being; amps mounted to some substrate in that huge cavity.

I saw an install online that replaced the foam spare tire pad and flipped the spare so that a couple of JL HDs could be stacked under the spare tire. (https://www.bayareaaudiovisions.com/repeat-jeep-client-upgrades-grand-cherokee-audio-system/)

It's interesting to see you doing a lot of the same things I've done and am planning in my WK2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chesapeakesoja (Apr 9, 2009)

I've also considered ditching the two trays in the spare tire well and seeing if I can modify that big trim piece to mount some equipment in those corners. As you have seen, there's room behind them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

hey chit, you're stuck in the same place as i've been for 2 years now. i have th ql system too and i really want to keep the spare if possible. the spare won't retrofit underneath as the diameter is just too big. i've considered having somebody fab up a small compartment under the spare as there is usable space down there for the amp rack.

but, for the sub, check my thread below. forgive the drama involved, but scroll down and you can see that the metal can indeed be cut. you can easily do it and you're right, it's flimsy and not structural. it helps create more usable airspace. i can easily fit a 15, thinking about an 18, three 10s and i believe two 12s. just comes down to how much airspace you can create and i've not done that yet to tell you, but im guessing a glassed enclosure, after displacement, could get you maybe 2sf. if you ditch the black plastic trim piece that goes around the spare, you can extend the foot of the enclosure out and gain more room. the other side is useless, btw. i was hoping to be one of the first to get a sub in there after cutting, but it's back in the shop again, so i challenge you to cut it and build it!

https://jeepgarage.org/f110/2011-overland-154850.html


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

chesapeakesoja said:


> I've also considered ditching the two trays in the spare tire well and seeing if I can modify that big trim piece to mount some equipment in those corners. As you have seen, there's room behind them.


I think that this ^^^ might be a really good idea, if you don't want to mess around with the whole spare tire and all of it's corresponding plastics...


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

DavidRam said:


> I think that this ^^^ might be a really good idea, if you don't want to mess around with the whole spare tire and all of it's corresponding plastics...


eh, not a bad idea, but they're awkwardly shaped and not as large as you'd expect. about the only things you can use that for would be wiring, or maybe a dsp. you'd need to have some really small amps to fit that.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Actually, I need to keep those trays. One holds the trailer hitch and the other is packed full of ratchets and a tow strap. 

Put the floor area back together just to get more sense of the available space. Definitely has to be a solution, just haven't seen it yet.


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

good luck man, i've been staring at the back end of my jeep for 2 years now and haven't accomplish much of anything beyond the cutting. you're quite limited with options outside of cutting or major fabrication.


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Look UP, young Padawan! 

Not the easiest option, but you can mount them to the roof in rectangular cutouts in the headliner in the rear cargo area if you do it securely. And even if the amps/DSP are exposed a bit, no one will even notice them or see them from outside the vehicle.

Make simple rectangular trim rings to go around each of the amps & DSP, or use metal mesh with color-matched grill cloth stretched over it to create snap-in covers like an upside-down shoe box lid (or one large cover) using neo-magnets.

I've done this before using 1/8" thick x 1-1/2" wide aluminum or steel flat stock straps secured with nutserts installed in the ceiling cross beams and the flat stock straps spanning the space between the cross beams. Then you can mount the amps and/or DSP to the flatstock straps.

If you can bend each end of the straps in a metal-working brake or in a simple vise to create "mounting tabs" where they mount to the cross beams, the straps can nestle up flush into the recess between the cross beams right against the roof sheet metal (though I'd use a thin layer of ensolite/CCF between the roof sheet metal and the straps/amps).

To mount the amps & DSP use high-quality stainless steel countersink head machine screws that are countersunk into the metal flatstock straps so you can get the straps as close to the roof sheet metal as possible (fully recessed between the cross beams).

It's just a PITA if you have to completely pull the headliner first to figure out what's up there structurally if you can't find photos online.

If you have a wrecking yard or Pick-A-Part nearby you might be able to find your vehicle and get measurements of the rear roof structure that way.

Otherwise, you should be able to pull the headliner down just a bit from the rear hatch door opening since you already have the left & right rear quarter panel trim removed. That should allow you to at least see and/or get some measurements before you start cutting up your headliner.

It's not for everyone, but that space is rarely needed or missed in the rear cargo area, and it would give you the opportunity to apply some sound deadening up there as well.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

That's an awesome idea! I'd have to look at the sunroof and the shade piece to see how far back they slide. The sunroof is pretty standard, just slides back to let the front passengers have some exposure, but the shade slides way back, letting the rear passengers get some extra light through the second pane of glass.


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

chithead said:


> That's an awesome idea! I'd have to look at the sunroof and the shade piece to see how far back they slide. The sunroof is pretty standard, just slides back to let the front passengers have some exposure, but the shade slides way back, letting the rear passengers get some extra light through the second pane of glass.


Crikey, didn't think about the sunroof, but it still may work in the far rear ceiling. Interested to see what you find.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Any chance they'll fit in the cubby under the drivers seat? Maybe stacked at an angle?


----------



## chesapeakesoja (Apr 9, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Any chance they'll fit in the cubby under the drivers seat? Maybe stacked at an angle?




With the QuadraLift system in his WK2, there are electronics in that cubby.

That cubby is a great spot for those of us without the adjustable suspension though, at least if the amps are compact enough to fit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

chesapeakesoja said:


> With the QuadraLift system in his WK2, there are electronics in that cubby.
> 
> That cubby is a great spot for those of us without the adjustable suspension though, at least if the amps are compact enough to fit.
> 
> ...


Ahh, go figure... I just discovered that cubby last night, but also realized it's useless to me, at least for storage. Maybe I'll put an air compressor in it like many cars have that don't have a spare...


----------



## chesapeakesoja (Apr 9, 2009)

I've put an amp and processor in mine with active cooling and I'll likely be moving my P SIX there so I can get my spare tire back. It should just BARELY fit. 

A compressor isn't a bad idea there. I've seen someone build an enclosure for an 8" sub in that compartment. It's one of the few spaces that are free in (some of) these Jeeps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

No doubt. I remember seeing a Durango build where he put a sub there. First thing I did when getting the Jeep was pull the cover, only to discover, yup. Whole slew of electronics in there for the Quadralift 

You guys rock though with the suggestions! Glad to see we're definitely not alone in this quest for audio bliss.


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

those enclosures under the seats are really tempting. i asked on the jeep garage forum but got no response, if relocating the ql electronics by extending the wires would be ok. i figure it's easier to find a spot for that somewhere in the back then it is for amps or an under the seat sub. again, i can't imagine it would be impossible, it's just that nobody's tried it yet and i'm reluctant to mess with that system. would make for a really convenient setup if you use small, stackable amps. 

you know, i'm not a fan of the ceiling mount especially since i have the pano roof, which i think you have too. however, don't discount the rear quarters. if you're ok with spending a few hundred extra bucks on buying spare interior quarter panels, you should still be able to fab something up, especially on the left side. it would likely be just as pricey as finding replacement roof parts, but the install should be much easier, safer and more stable.

or, as i mentioned and something im considering; find a body shop that can fab up a small metal enclosure under the spare. there's plenty of space for gear down there. even if you decide to sell the jeep later, if the fab is done cleanly, you can pass it off as extra storage for safety gear, etc. jeep guys eat that **** up. as long as it doesn't hang lower than the other parts, ie exhaust, bumper, etc. it shouldn't be a problem whatsoever. this is the route i'm leaning towards, just don't know how much it would cost to have somebody do that and it's low on my 'life priority' list right now.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Well, think we may have an idea here. Looking at the side panel more:



There looks to be just enough room, if we carry over into that vented section for the factory amp to get air. This of course means cutting that panel. Another plus to this idea, is this side looks to have a bit more room than the subwoofer side for the thickness of the amps:



By cutting that entire section, and pushing the amps back, it looks like they might fit without having to severely modify the entire piece:







Just for poots and giggles, here is the Zuki six channel I'd hoped to use originally:



Uhhh...



Memphis Belle?


----------



## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Looks like they will fit if stack em some how. The arcs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

The Arcs would fit nicely. Plus, that spot would be easy to build a rack for, and there's convenient options to run wiring (under it, through it, through the vents, etc.)


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

DavidRam said:


> The Arcs would fit nicely. Plus, that spot would be easy to build a rack for, and there's convenient options to run wiring (under it, through it, through the vents, etc.)


Absolutely! I think that is the best option right now, especially since where the factory amp location is, could easily hide the DSP there. Along with plenty of room to make nice and neat connections. 

Second biggest issue right now, the 1/0 I ordered and partially installed is too short. It barely reaches to behind the rear seat. Doh! Definitely need to take a look at that now too. 

Haste makes waste!


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

chithead said:


> Absolutely! I think that is the best option right now, especially since where the factory amp location is, could easily hide the DSP there. Along with plenty of room to make nice and neat connections.
> 
> Second biggest issue right now, the 1/0 I ordered and partially installed is too short. It barely reaches to behind the rear seat. Doh! Definitely need to take a look at that now too.
> 
> Haste makes waste!


I know the feeling... I have a few "short" power wires hanging from my wire board, from times I made a hasty cut... :blush:
I think I keep them on display to remind me of my failures.  :laugh:

Aesthetically, it would look cool to have the wires going through those vents. imho


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

believe me, im not trying to be a debbie downer here, but i don't think it will work out the way you're thinking. at least not with major modification to that trim panel. i would suggest, if you're going to do it, that you find some spare panels to work with. i expect you're already considering this, though. still, very curious how this turns out and i wish you luck. i still think you should cut the metal for the sub enclosure. did you see my pics where i did that?


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

brett said:


> believe me, im not trying to be a debbie downer here, but i don't think it will work out the way you're thinking. at least not with major modification to that trim panel. i would suggest, if you're going to do it, that you find some spare panels to work with. i expect you're already considering this, though. still, very curious how this turns out and i wish you luck. i still think you should cut the metal for the sub enclosure. did you see my pics where i did that?


Ohhhh yeah, I still have them saved. Another idea may have sprung up just a bit ago. Was browsing through a Cabela's catalog, and might just have a solution. It's a bit out there, but a possible solution to everything.


----------



## chesapeakesoja (Apr 9, 2009)

chithead said:


> Ohhhh yeah, I still have them saved. Another idea may have sprung up just a bit ago. Was browsing through a Cabela's catalog, and might just have a solution. It's a bit out there, but a possible solution to everything.




You can't leave us hanging like that! What direction are you thinking here?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

you thinking gun rack?


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

I'll have to double check this afternoon. May just move the amps to another spot, if they'll fit that is. Which would also solve that power wire issue as well.


----------



## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Do the amps fit on the floor under the back seat?


----------



## chesapeakesoja (Apr 9, 2009)

bradknob said:


> Do the amps fit on the floor under the back seat?




I've considered this. They may, but the springs compress quite a bit when weight is on the seat. I haven't done a true clearance check with someone seated or the seats folded forward, but it would be tight. 

Might be a possibility for the OP or some others of us with the WK2. I'd be really interested in that if anyone does try it.

I actually might try it this weekend just to see. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

bradknob said:


> Do the amps fit on the floor under the back seat?


Actually, that's my plan! Just have to make sure the seat doesn't touch when folded down, or someone sitting back there. But it might just work with the relatively short height of those Arc amps. Can even spin them so the wires face back towards the rear of the seats if it helps with the space management. And easy access to the distribution block too.


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

eh, again, not trying to be 'that guy', but i don't see this happening. with the seats up, maybe, but not when they're collapsed. i've gone through just about every scenario with my wk2 and if you have the ql system, options are really limited.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Hey, don't worry about that at all man. We're all just trying to help each other out!


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

oh, definitely! i'm actually stoked there are so many wk2 projects popping up recently that it's inspiring. like i said, i've been eyeballing this jeep for over 2 years now trying to figure out how i want to plan the system and every time i think i find a solution, i find a reason why it won't work. my problem is that i don't want to sacrifice anything, ie cargo space or the spare tire. i've had my back end/spare area taken apart multiple times, and every time i come back to square one. either ditch the spare and build there without issue, or make some compromise or do heavy fab. i had no problem cutting the metal behind the sub because that's easy to do with my dremel (went through about 15 discs!) and it would be easy to hide if i got rid of it. i considered making a new amp rack that replaced the spare floor lid, but every time i look at it, it was too high, and with the back seats down, there'd be an unaccounted for step. it just wouldn't look right. i considered flipping the spare and using the center but there's not enough space. if you have a full size wheel, there's more space, but the wheel/tire width is too much and the lid wouldn't sit properly. there's no room on the driver rear quarter without heavy modification. nothing under the front or back seat without heavy modification. even considered installing inside the back seats or even the deck lid! but still, heavy mod that would be expensive, difficult and somewhat unnecessary.

that's why i'm considering keeping the spare where it is, flipping it, but having a metal fab/body shop make a small storage area that can be welded to the body underneath the spare. it can be done cleanly, painted body color and it could easily house amps, or subs, or anything. then, if i get rid of the jeep, it could be used for extra storage for safety, camping, 4x4 gear, which is always a plus on these vehicles. there would be no access from the outside or underneath and would be sealed off from the elements. it would have to be accessed by pulling the spare out, which is fine by me. then i could retain full usage of everything, and retain a completely stock look. take a look at the srt that ndm (i think that's his handle) did. he cut through the floor for his sub. well, consider the same thing, but slightly larger and be made of metal, welded in and ground down to make it smooth. if you look under the jeep where the spare is, there's plenty of room down there, in between the exhaust. in fact, i believe the srt jeeps actually have a plate to cover that area anyway, which would be cool to retrofit.

anyway, yes, im only trying to help because i know the obstacles you're running into.


----------



## ekaz (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm with Brett, well not_with Brett_  but I agree that the amps won't fit under the back seats. I tried fitting my JL HDs under there and no luck. That whole roof deal is kinds interesting and never thought about that. Great potential with the WK2 but sh!tty space available for it.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I also don't want to be "that guy" but sometimes you just have to take the easy way out and sacrifice some usable cargo space for the sake of your sanity. Getting a sub in the factory location should be easy enough even if it means using the IDQ (I know I know). Could always send that IDMAX to me instead if we decide to do that trade we were talking about


----------



## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Then maybe choppin up the side quarter panel is the best bet. Like mine but for 2 amps on the driver side


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Soooo, you guys were right. There is enough room for the amp:



But if you ever plan on folding the seat down, fuhgettaboutit. Barely moved a quarter of the way and hit the corner of the amp. If you have smaller amps (not as tall and much narrower) they would work just fine - but if you already have amps that small, then finding a spot to mount them wouldn't be this difficult either. 

I did confirm, if you're willing to build a subwoofer enclosure that takes up cargo space (like HillBillySQ suggests) - then the amps will fit no problem in the factory subwoofer spot. Definitely room for everything behind there. But if you plan on putting a sub there (especially a larger one like brett) - then you're pretty much having to do what bradknob did by modifying that carpeted piece of the panel. 

Seriously considered putting the amps and DSP in the factory subwoofer spot and building an enclosure that looks like an ammo crate (you know, playing into the whole history of the Jeep thing). At least it could have good and solid rope handles to remove the enclosure when more cargo space is required - but it seems to be when you are already out somewhere and need the space, not at home where it's convenient to remove the enclosure.


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

i hate to say itodaso, but....


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

If you built the enclosure where it could be moved you could at least move it around the cabin to make anything you get while out and about in there...hopefully. If it came down to it and your wife and kid were with you have your wife drive and let the subwoofer ride on your lap or in the shotgun seat floorboard with legs over it. Just make sure you have a grille over the sub that can take a pretty good lick. In my Grand Cherokee I do wish I would have gotten that nice mdf box that one company does for it with .7 cubes for a 10" in the factory sub location. And stuck with smaller amps that can fit in the spare tire well with the spare still installed. But mine is gone and back with something that fits my lifestyle better. In the grand scheme of things you could just do what Brad did in his and not take up much extra room at all if the spare isn't in there (you'll be sorry when/if you need it). I wasn't a fan of the sub firing up like that in mine for a few different reasons but if it works for you that's all that matters.


----------



## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

What's all this talk about fitting stuff in the back of a GC? 
I mean Cmon people.....two 15's, four HD amps, one Processor....all under the slightly raised factory floor. Damn near cant tell that anything is there.

Just sayin..... (Pats self on back)


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

was hoping you'd chime in to provide some inspiration!


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Tried some surgery yesterday evening to see if we can fit any amps in there. Cut the carpeted panel away from the wheelwell cover to get a better look at the space:





Woke up this morning, and after playing around with a few ideas, decided that this configuration just might work:



There is room underneath where the little cargo cubby thing was, and when the factory amp is removed, that frees up some more space:



Double stacked, vertically, maybe, just maybe:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

So, after some more surgery:



Looks like this could happen! Forgot you can turn the logos too, that definitely takes it up a level in my opinion:





Turns out, they didn't fit. Sunuva!!! After all that? Well, almost. Took me a minute to figure out, they just have to turn around and face the other way, connections towards the rear. Had to cut even more of the carpeted panel away also. Tilted just a bit too, they do fit!



It's very very close on this one though, very slim fit for sure:



I'll have to put the mono on the bottom though, as the subwoofer connector is positioned closer to the middle, moving it up higher from the bottom, which makes them fit better. The six channel, with the connections all the way at the edge of the amp, hit the body of the Jeep and won't have any room to fit a wire in there, let alone 12 of them. 

So yeah, it's ugly, but proof that there is a working (non-factory) setup in the Grand Cherokee right now!



A video if anyone is interested:


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Gonna have enough room to cool like that?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Wondered about that, so after about an hour of listening to the Arcs (and putting through some fairly high volume situations), put my hand on them... the mono wasn't even warm, and the six channel was slightly warm, just a bit higher than room temp. Crazy!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

The 6ch is fan cooled so that should help a ton. If the mono is fan cooled too I wouldn't worry about cooling as long as they have a way to suck in and release air out the inlets and outlets.


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

sorry dude, but i'm not a fan of them on the driver side like that. if you're still trying to retain the spare, then you're gonna have to get creative and do some cutting/fabrication work with those amps. did you see the summit build here? they cut the floor out and extended a small area. that could easily be done, be stealth, keep the spare. and put the sub on the passenger side. btw, did you find a solution for that?


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Started on the amp rack. First with a template, because that shape is way too complex to just wing it:



Using the factory amp bracket as a guide. However, the amps sit further down than this bracket. Meaning the corner of the amps is about halfway into this bracket, so I couldn't use it to get an angle. However, I can use this, to make sure the amp rack secures using the same three mounting locations:





Alright, so here we go. Snip snip, snip snip snip, snip some more, and trace:





Tools I used for this project:



Predrilled the corners to try and keep them smooth as possible:



Then we cut:



This took most of the day. Without the proper metal working equipment, just some Vise-grips, rubber mallet, a 16oz. hammer, and a bunch of 2x4's - had to be very patient, and very careful. But eventually, ended up with this:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Made a bracket for the DSR1 with a similar method to mount under the amps. Everything seems to be fitting just perfect at the moment. Will be cleaning them and painting, then see about attaching everything to the brackets.


----------



## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

That’s badass amp rack bracket brother. I dig it !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

brett said:


> sorry dude, but i'm not a fan of them on the driver side like that. if you're still trying to retain the spare, then you're gonna have to get creative and do some cutting/fabrication work with those amps. did you see the summit build here? they cut the floor out and extended a small area. that could easily be done, be stealth, keep the spare. and put the sub on the passenger side. btw, did you find a solution for that?


Man, I totally missed this from you, sorry about that my friend! No doubt that the install in the Summit is some stellar craftsmanship, but it just doesn't fit what we do with our Grand Cherokee. Just about every install utilizing that spare tire space doesn't fit our lifestyle, so I chose a completely different path to try. As Ivan Drago said, "If he dies, he dies." Same with this idea. If it doesn't work, then we'll just move on to something else 

I'm taking your inspiration for the subwoofer. Will definitely cut some of that metal behind the factory sub. Basically just connecting the dots, gonna slice the spot between the two circles already there and use what will then be an egg shape for the motor of that IDMAX to fit. Plus offer room to vent and gain a little more internal volume. That is definitely next once we know this amp idea will work. 



optimaprime said:


> That’s badass amp rack bracket brother. I dig it !


Thank you friend! Painted the brackets last night and started on mounting them. Need to buy a few more little pieces now that I know what lengths are needed to secure everything. Then extremely shorten that harness since I originally made it to fit a pair of HD900/5 mounted up by the rear seat. Never needed a 6 inch RCA before :wacky:


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

right on, and i totally understand where you're coming from. every time i think i'm committed to removing the spare, i say to myself, 'but what if i did xxxx'. problem is, it always comes back to square one. i am curious to see how this new amp rack works for you on the driver side.

glad to hear you're cutting that metal behind the sub, i think you'll gain quite a bit of room. 

just fyi to you and any other wk2 owner. both rear quarter panels have the carpeted part attached by plastic weld. i removed mine by shaving away the 'weld' with my dremel, no issue. but, i left the plastic cylinder part from the quarter panel. i was able to get about 4 nuts, i believe 10mm?, glued into each cylinder. i had to get a clamp to force them in and it does stretch the plastic a bit, but once dried, they didn't move. this allowed me to re-attach the carpeted sections with bolts and washers. i also used some weather stripping to keep it from rattling, but it was secure and removable. i say this because i suspect you'll end up making custom pieces for both left and right and want you to know that something like that is possible.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

That is awesome information! Like you, I just hit the melted parts with my cutoff wheel, so that the piece could hopefully still attach after the minor surgery. Man, that is a great idea. I'll look into that method to make reattachment (and maybe further modifications later) much easier.

Would love to put a custom subwoofer grille on the other side, but doesn't seem like anything larger than a 10" round would fit. Wondering about an oval grille instead, with the Overland logo on it...


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

honestly, i'd go one of two routes; either keep the stock one there or create one that mirrors whatever you do on the driver side. had i kept my jeep, i was just going to keep the stock grill there as it would've been far enough away for excursion clearance and it would've vented just fine. i also considered making a perforated metal grill for the entire piece and throwing some carpet or something similar over it.

btw, i forgot to add; if you try that method of pushing the nuts into the cylinder, i did it with the nuts on a screw so that way there was no spaces and the threads lined up. you'll want to remove the screw so it doesn't get glued in.

however, i'm sure you could easily make some sort of baffle to be glued to the inside. that way you don't have to mess with tall that. 'tis the beauty of this hobby, eh?


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

brett said:


> *had i kept my jeep*


Wait, what? You got rid of it?


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

no, i was referring to my 2011 overland. that's the one i cut the metal on. i'm still gathering gear for my 2018 altitude, which i have leased for 3 years. not sure i'll be cutting the metal on this one, though, as it's a lease. unless you guys are confident they wouldn't pull those quarter panels apart and check for things like that?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

brett said:


> no, i was referring to my 2011 overland. that's the one i cut the metal on. i'm still gathering gear for my 2018 altitude, which i have leased for 3 years. not sure i'll be cutting the metal on this one, though, as it's a lease. unless you guys are confident they wouldn't pull those quarter panels apart and check for things like that?


They won't pull panels if they don't get any clues that you were a car audio guy but I wouldn't chance it anyway. I'd never do more than a simple install on a lease. That said, I'd never have a lease to begin with.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Found these little posts at Lowe's for almost a dollar each. Already had the machine screws from a subwoofer enclosure years past, so pairing the two together:



We get this:



Nice compact stack:



And just about as perfect of a fit that I could ask for:





Did add some foam weatherstripping underneath the amps to keep them from directly touching each other, and the bracket. Allows a little more air all the way around them also. 

Started on the harness tonight too. Debating on modifying the RCA output from the DSR1 just a tad... will definitely look into it. Ordered some more parts just in case.


----------



## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Got any pics of the floor without the top? Whats holding the top part up

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

I looked, and don't have any pictures of the spare tire tray holding up the floor. It's a pretty neat piece, goes completely around the spare, covers that air tank, and has two removeable storage trays on either side of the spare near the back.


----------



## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

subbing...love this stuff!


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Thanks! Glad you enjoy crappy attempts from an amateur installer trying to make it look like a pro come up with the idea 



Cleaned up the harness finally. Lot of little wires to clip off from the previous install attempt. Needed a fresh start, definitely want to make this a lot more compact:



Also have an idea on the output side, may just add new wires right after the plug, and put male RCA connectors on there, to plug directly into the amplifiers. Thinking less connections, less issues to worry about later, less resistance, blah blah blah...


----------



## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

chithead said:


> Found these little posts at Lowe's for almost a dollar each. Already had the machine screws from a subwoofer enclosure years past, so pairing the two together:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hope you are gonna isolate the amps from the metal rack that is contacting the chassis.. I predict noise and other issues if you dont. thats from past experience btw.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

ndm said:


> Hope you are gonna isolate the amps from the metal rack that is contacting the chassis.. I predict noise and other issues if you dont. thats from past experience btw.


Hmmm... I'll have to look for some rubber grommets in my previous install pile.

Dang, from all the ceiling fans we've upgraded, should have kept those little vibration pieces they give you to install in the blades. Would have been perfect!


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Got any pics of the floor without the top? Whats holding the top part up
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


Here ya go:



Pay no attention to the factory amp laying there. That's just temporary


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

New wiring harness is completed:



Far different from the tangled mess of wires I had planned to put in there before. Did the techflex treatment on all the wires, and re-installed everything:





Took advice from other Grand Cherokee owners and installed these rubber grommets on the three bracket mounting bolts, and also on the posts securing the amps. Should help avoid any potential ground loop noise issues:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Also started on the subwoofer mounting. Enclosure? No. After talking to HillbillySQ (blame him if you don't like this idea) - decided to try something different. Since I planned on going into the wheel well with the enclosure to gain more volume and fit the massive IDMAX motor, spent some time out there scoping the space. That's when I saw the little vent for the outside. Wait, vent, to outside? That's right. Lightbulb.

Traced the factory enclosure and marked for the subwoofer mounting:



Decided to do a double thickness interlocking thing to get enough bracing for this heavy sumbeech:



And there you have it, an IB mounted IDMAX, in the factory subwoofer location:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

The subwoofer mounting is temporary. Wanted to make sure it would work first, before doing a final install with it. First impressions, it's not the boom boom boom I secretly hoped for, but it has that seamless impact I do remember hearing many years back from an IDMAX in a large sealed sonotube. Definitely pleased already.


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

interesting approach to the enclosure, never considered doing something like that.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Looking great man!!


----------



## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

does the interior quarter panel fit over that corner? or, are you planning on rebuilding to fit after you're done testing? also, doesn't that metal panel flex quite a bit even with your enclosure bolted to it?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Once again I'm gonna say DAMN SON! You got er done in short order. And glad I could help on accidently triggering a litebub (inside joke) for the sub. What's the plan for the trim piece in front of it? And any obnoxious noises on the inside of the cabin? Sounds like that sub is sounding like it's supposed to for reinforcement to the midbass that will give you your impact.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

brett said:


> does the interior quarter panel fit over that corner? or, are you planning on rebuilding to fit after you're done testing? also, doesn't that metal panel flex quite a bit even with your enclosure bolted to it?


I did try to keep it to the same depth as the factory enclosure, even with the subwoofer frame, but as you said, I'm going to completely rebuild this extending all the way down and not be just a square shape. Really want to take advantage of both factory cutouts into the wheel well, and not just the round one. So far though, can't see any flexing on the fender, the MDF, or the interior sheetmetal it is secured to. Everything is very tight and secure. I used some foam weatherstripping to seal up between the MDF and sheet metal. 



Hillbilly SQ said:


> Once again I'm gonna say DAMN SON! You got er done in short order. And glad I could help on accidently triggering a litebub (inside joke) for the sub. What's the plan for the trim piece in front of it? And any obnoxious noises on the inside of the cabin? Sounds like that sub is sounding like it's supposed to for reinforcement to the midbass that will give you your impact.


The biggest noises so far, are from the monster bynines. Will definitely be revisiting the door panels to cure some resonance and buzzing. I can hear a bit of panel resonance that sounds like possibly the exterior fender when really cranking the volume, but pretty sure some proper dampening will fix all that.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

You may just have to mass load the panel against the carrier plate. Did you use some ccf to seal the front of the door speakers to the panels to reduce splattering behind the panel as much as possible? You really don't want those speakers just firing through the grille without some sound vectoring going on.


----------



## rockinridgeline (Feb 2, 2009)

That IB Mount for the ID 12” is pretty stinking clever! Kudos!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

chithead said:


> Found these little posts at Lowe's for almost a dollar each. Already had the machine screws from a subwoofer enclosure years past, so pairing the two together:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Fantastic!!! Must be factory fit 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

optimaprime said:


> Fantastic!!! Must be factory fit


----------



## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Has to be !! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

Can you take a pic of the whole rear area so i can get a feel for the layout? Kind of hard to tell from the close-up shots where everything is located.


----------



## dutchman79 (Aug 16, 2010)

I was able to get a 1.3 ft enclosure behind the factory panel. Amps mounted under a full size spare. Just enough clearance for Arc Black 12D2. I did have 2 12" IDMAX V.3's before this, but sadly I needed the truck space and had to let them go.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

That is awesome! Very nice craftsmanship with the sub enclosure. How do you like that Arc Black? It's always been on my list of subwoofers to try.


----------



## dutchman79 (Aug 16, 2010)

chithead said:


> That is awesome! Very nice craftsmanship with the sub enclosure. How do you like that Arc Black? It's always been on my list of subwoofers to try.


Thank you! 

The Arc Black is on par with an IDMAX. I don't think I can even tell the difference between the two. I'll most likely be sticking with ARC subs moving forward. I had 2 10" blacks in my brothers F150 and they sounded amazing.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

dutchman79 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> The Arc Black is on par with an IDMAX. I don't think I can even tell the difference between the two. I'll most likely be sticking with ARC subs moving forward. I had 2 10" blacks in my brothers F150 and they sounded amazing.


I had NVX in a previous install, the ones that were supposedly like the Arc Black, but not the Arc Black, but SB Acoustics "may" have had a hand with the component construction... 

They were really enjoyable too. Still have them actually. And still have a pair of the NVX X-series 12" subs. I don't think they are exactly like the Black subwoofer, as the frame is ridiculously oversized. 

Now you have me browsing the Arc Audio website.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

So, decided this tangled mess of RCAs just wasn't going to cut it:



Stripped back one of the jackets to reveal a pretty common setup, outer shielded with a center wire for the RCA outputs of the DSR1:



Picked up some Mogami 2319 Wire and JCM RCA connectors, snipped the female ends off the DSR1 harness, soldered on the Mogami wire:



Was a bit tedious, but eventually we ended up with this:



And ohhhh yeah, that's better:


----------



## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

That harness is awesome dude. Things like that are the difference between amateur and professional IMO. Good stuff!


----------



## rockinridgeline (Feb 2, 2009)

Very, very nice. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Well kiddos... let's play a game. It's called, Guess Which Woofer Quit Working On The Way Home From Work Today:



You give up yet? 

I'd removed the amps and DSR1 because after three times hooking it all up, kept getting this nasty distortion and crackle, that isn't there with the factory amp. It's even awful with the touch screen tones, just selecting things, the soft tone is distorted. Backup warning beeps aren't working either. So, had to pull it. Was dead certain it was the DSR1 causing all the problems.

The distortion was back yesterday with the factory amp, so thanks to the recommendations of many friends much wiser than me, decided to pull them both out and swap, see if it's the speaker causing the problem, or maybe the factory radio. I think we can all agree, it's the speaker. Wasn't playing at all. Could push in on the cone and it would make sound, but soon as you let go, it slowly went back to resting position and quit playing. Guess the coil is shorting out against the pole piece. Could have been what was causing the nasty sounds with the DSR1 and Arcs!!! Anyone have some hot sauce? Time to eat that crow.

The NVX mids won't fit because the baffle from the Challenger is too deep for the door panel to fit back on. But... I forgot there are XS 6.5" speakers in the back doors, and they are MUCH thinner than the NVX. Swapped them into the MDF baffles, and the door panels went back on. Going to rock those for a bit, see if we can live with, "just" a 6.5" speaker in the doors, and go from there. Stay tuned, this could actually turn into an NVX build pretty quickly!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

If you want rears put the 4" SB drivers you have in the back doors and cross them at about 200hz. Then cut a thinner adapter for the NVX 6.5's and figure out how you can get those NVX tweeters in the sails if you must have all matching speakers. Personally I'd leave the tweets you have installed since it's such a custom job and see how the ID 6.5's do.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Well, turns out it might not have been the DSR1 or the amps after all. One of the ID 6x9s actually stopped playing. It's not locked up, but if you push on the cone a bit, starts working again, but soon as you let go, it slowly moves back to resting position and quits. The coil is dragging the pole piece, possibly shorting, and could have been the cause of all that distortion. 

Debated on a few different routes, but found a set of new XS69 on eBay and ordered those.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

New XS69 woofers arrived, installed them along with some 6x9 baffles instead of the 6.5" I used before. Hopefully, provide more rain coverage to protect these from rusting like that other one:


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Decided to try something different with the IDMAX:





Double baffle, bottom baffle has both openings cut out into it to get as much air into the wheel well cavity as possible. IDMAX is secured via 2 inch bolts, with a one inch washer on the backside to prevent ripping out of the MDF. Mounted to the vehicle via the factory locations:



She sounds, different. Bass seems so natural. Like, way too natural. The seat bottom vibrates now instead of the seat back, and bass extension seems to be crazy low. But where I had the midbass crossed higher with the previous sub in an enclosure, seems like the crossover point will need to be moved down a bit to mate up better. Can't offer much opinion just yet on whether I like this or not. Guess that's what an, "SQ" oriented install is supposed to sound like? Just an odd sound from what I am accustomed to.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Heh, you just might be able to use that location after all. I can understand how what you're used to can sound better to you even though it's not technically "correct". I still wonder how something with less junk in the trunk like an ID12 would do in that location. Not sure how wide the magnet is in comparison between the two so who knows...but that is A LOT of booty hanging there so I'd get a brace of some kind built pretty fast to go under the magnet. And build something just big enough to go around the woofer to protect it.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

I'm really excited to see the release of those IDQS subwoofers. May try one of those once they are released if I just can't get used to how the IDMAX sounds mounted like this. I mean, sitting still, engine off, it's perfect. I mean, perfect. Kick drum has this ridiculous, "thud" to it that sounds so real. And bass extension is waayyyyyy down there. But when you're driving, poof. No bass. All gone.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

No bass when moving you say? That's what a bass knob is for dude


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Heh. Those Arc amps do have those. Maybe it's time to hook one up.


----------



## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Looks like there’s some gaps around that baffle, that will def cause what ur explaining. Seal that up and see what happens


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

bradknob said:


> Looks like there’s some gaps around that baffle, that will def cause what ur explaining. Seal that up and see what happens


I'll try that for sure. Put some foam weatherstripping on the backside, but maybe it's not enough.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Silicone the hell out of it.


----------



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Looking good, man!


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Still can't decide if I like this or not. Listened to quite a few tracks on my Corsair HS70 headphones last night. Are they audiophile by any means? I dunno. But they sound good. Darn good. I enjoy them better than most of the Sennheiser and Audio-Technica in my collection. Right on par with these Master and Dynamic MH30 I have. You can definitely hear bass. Lots of bass. Head bobbing bass. But in the Jeep right now, there is none of that. It's just, odd. Turn the sub off, and you can tell a difference. But when it's on, just kind of disappears into the music. Lowered the crossover of the midbass to 63Hz, and brought the sub up to the same frequency. Used some Noico thin dampener around the edge of the baffle to try and seal any air that may have been leaking out around the foam weatherstripping I used around the sub and sheet metal. One of those definitely helped, got quite a bit more, "punch" doing that. But still, no exaggerated, bloated, gut wrenching bass.

Listening to a track I've become quite familiar with, Arlissa - Every Time I Breathe - the bass on that track would shake the seat back a bit, and now that's gone. It's just this low low kick, thump, rumble, kick, thump, gone. 

Halsey - Without Me - man. With that Ground Zero 15 ported, could probably do a small hair trick before. But you just get low rumble again now. The kick drum though is solid. Thump, gone. Thump, gone. Thump, rumbling arpeggio, gone. No overhang or anything. Maybe that's what I'm used to, the big boomy overhang, and just missing it? 

Scrolled over to Ozzy Osbourne - No More Tears - that bass guitar intro, you get the plucks, solid, bada doom doom, bada doom doom, bada doom doom - just crazy realistic, then the drum comes, sharp snap of the snare, and then the bass drum, solid, and up front. The floor vibrates under your foot, not the seat. It's just way different bass with the IDMAX mounted in this configuration. 

Guess it's just a decision now if this is what I really want. May spend a few days listening more before yanking this out and just going with an enclosure. I mean, if the goal was to reproduce music as naturally as possible, then this is definitely doing it. But, only if you're sitting still. Driving, still losing a lot of output compared to other setups. Can't help wondering if road noise inside the fender well could be causing cancellations.


----------



## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Have you tried playing with the phase of the sub?


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

I did try that, because of the subwoofer being inverted, but seemed like that did not sound as good, just kind of blat, blat, blat.


----------



## rockinridgeline (Feb 2, 2009)

What do measurements look like? Polarity matched and then inverted?

Output of sub vs midbass?

Crossover slopes for midbass and sub?

Do you see a problem with one side midbass blending properly due to cancellation at 60 hz with the seat all the way back (speaking from experience, lol)

Asking all of this because I just spent 6-8 hours getting the sub to midbass set where it sounds the best. Also spent several hours dropping the headliner and putting vibraflex on the roof. When someone else was in the Jeep a few weeks ago I was standing on the outside and could see the roof flexing a great deal. Turns out I was getting a ton of cancellation from the panel flex. Without touching any gains the setting on the dsp for sub is now at -10 to get a good blend whereas before it would have been at -8 and wasn't blending properly at all.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Now that could be a concept there. Rolled the windows down today, and the bass increased, but it was like flipping phase. All the bass went immediately to the back, and you could hear the fender buzzing like crazy. Maybe that is the culprit causing the cancellations. 

I don't actually have measuring equipment just yet. Haven't really thrown myself into the hobby that much at this point. More, just like it to be louder and cleaner than stock. But, perhaps it is time to take the plunge. 

I've noticed a few wonky things actually. Like the driver's side mirror vibrating, and the passenger side not at all. Yet when I switch L/R RCAs on the amp, of course the passenger side mirror starts, and driver side stops. This has been an ongoing issue since the start, like the Left channels play much louder than the Right. I've wondered if this is an issue with the DSR1. To take it further though, it seems like the Arc amps aren't putting out barely anything close to what I assume they are capable of. Everyone talks about how awesome and strong they sound, yet I can hardly get the volume up without it sounding like they run out of steam and start clipping. Might be time to ditch the DSR1 and step it up in the processor department too.


----------



## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Wish I had gotten a demo in the Jeep at Jason's meet, heard nothing but good things from people who had heard it. 

Good luck tracking down the issues you are having, some of that can be maddening trying to figure out what not working like it should be.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Wow! That certainly means quite a bit to me coming from you Mr. Ian - have always heard great things about your car as well. Hopefully can have all this sorted out for the Fall Meet and make a visit up your way!


----------



## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Yeah, I think you have never gotten a demo in the Audi either, kind of funny in some ways considering I think we've both been at the NC meet the last 2-3 years, but also highlights how tough it can be to get many demos, the time flies by at meets. 

I'm sure you'll get it figured out by September and hopefully be able to make it up here where I'll put you first in line for a demo.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Just putting this out there...when I thought my xdi1200.6 had dead channels but really was just the input selector switch in the wrong place Arc benched my amp while they were testing it. While it's rated at 150x4 on the front and rear channels it really only did around 125x4 at 4 ohms at 1% thd. Sub channels did a hair over rated power. That said, if your amp does about what mine tested at on each channel you're getting what you paid for where you need it (x9's in doors) and have more than plenty on tweets and rears. If you really wanna have some fun bridge the front and rear section to the front doors and get rid of the rearsAnd run the tweets off the sub channels. I guess those channels are clean up to 20k anyway


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Chapter closed on the Grand Cherokee. I bid her adieu last night. Decided it was time to move back into a truck. Will provide updates soon as we can


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Holy poopie! Back to a Ram sport truck I assume?


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

It is, a bit sportish... I mean, has the painted bumpers and such. Couldn't afford that fancy chrome.


----------



## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

chithead said:


> Chapter closed on the Grand Cherokee. I bid her adieu last night. Decided it was time to move back into a truck. Will provide updates soon as we can


I did not see that coming. Super impressed by the work you had put into that amprack though, and very interested in what you were going to do about the subwoofer.


----------



## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

I still have that template if anyone is interested in the dimensions. Not sure how I could upload it to a .pdf file, but could sure try. I think lots of Grand Cherokee owners could use it for sure to make their own subwoofer enclosures.


----------

