# Is Dynaudio Esotar the best 3-way???



## aykhan (Oct 22, 2015)

Just wondering what is the top of the line 3-way system to run active all 6 components on separate DSP amplifier channels and DSP processed. Is it the Dynaudio Esotar2, the Focal Utopia Be 7 Active, the out of production Audison Thesis K3 orchestra, the Morel Supremo or .....,,, ???


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## Black Scorpion (Jan 6, 2015)

It's all about your preference in what you like. And it's also about the install. But they are all great sets.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

sure


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

If you like a smooth high end the Dynaudio tweeter is for you. I myself prefer a detailed top end. ScanSpeak drivers are used in many manufactures top end speakers. 

The 2904/700009 is an incredible tweeter. Extremely detailed. Rather large in size. 

The best thing is to listen to as many systems as you can even if you have to drive hundreds of miles to do so. If you plan on investing that much money on a sound system, than you need to do the research so that you will be happy with the end result.


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## aykhan (Oct 22, 2015)

Unfortunately I am unable to get to sample any of these. Anyone heard the Brax Matrix M3CPP? Is it up there with these sets?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

the equipment is only a small fraction of what you hear in a car. install and especially tuning are going to be the big game changers


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## gu9cci (Mar 28, 2011)

All of the speakers mentioned are great.I was very pleased with morel speakers for smooth sound.
Zr speaker lab and micro precision z studio are on top of my list.Also I would like to audition sinfoni grandioso


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## truckguy (Sep 2, 2013)

gu9cci said:


> All of the speakers mentioned are great.I was very pleased with morel speakers for smooth sound.
> Zr speaker lab and micro precision z studio are on top of my list.Also I would like to audition sinfoni grandioso


I was just trying to look for these to tell him. There is a guy on here that is installing a zr Lab set but I can't find it.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

There is no such thing as "The Best". Sound is always subjective. Some people prefer different drivers for different reasons. Some drivers work better in different installation alignments for different reasons. None of that makes any of them "The Best." 

If you have enough money to pick and choose any of those sets, then you should have enough money to find somewhere to audition each of those sets before u buy. If nothing else, contact the manufacturers directly and let them know you wish to audition their product before you make a purchase. They will direct you to a retailer, a local sales representative, or a trusted customer that will be more than happy to let u audition the set you are interested in. Be ready for a heavy sales pitch. That's just how it works. 

Buy with your ears. Good luck.


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## Pitmaster (Feb 16, 2010)

Onyx1136 said:


> There is no such thing as "The Best". Sound is always subjective. Some people prefer different drivers for different reasons. Some drivers work better in different installation alignments for different reasons. None of that makes any of them "The Best."
> 
> If you have enough money to pick and choose any of those sets, then you should have enough money to find somewhere to audition each of those sets before u buy. If nothing else, contact the manufacturers directly and let them know you wish to audition their product before you make a purchase. They will direct you to a retailer, a local sales representative, or a trusted customer that will be more than happy to let u audition the set you are interested in. Be ready for a heavy sales pitch. That's just how it works.
> 
> Buy with your ears. Good luck.


Yes^^^
This question embodies the reason for DIYmobileaudio. Many learned members have spent many years searching for the sound they prefer in their own listening enviorment. Too many variables to just say what is the best set-up, although Esotar is a step in the right direction if you have the cheddar.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

High Resolution Audio said:


> If you like a smooth high end the Dynaudio tweeter is for you. I myself prefer a detailed top end. ScanSpeak drivers are used in many manufactures top end speakers.


Sorry, but this is bs. The esotar2 110 tweeter is one of the most detailed tweeters out there when properly tuned. 



Onyx1136 said:


> There is no such thing as "The Best". Sound is always subjective. Some people prefer different drivers for different reasons. Some drivers work better in different installation alignments for different reasons. None of that makes any of them "The Best."
> 
> If you have enough money to pick and choose any of those sets, then you should have enough money to find somewhere to audition each of those sets before u buy. If nothing else, contact the manufacturers directly and let them know you wish to audition their product before you make a purchase. They will direct you to a retailer, a local sales representative, or a trusted customer that will be more than happy to let u audition the set you are interested in. Be ready for a heavy sales pitch. That's just how it works.
> 
> Buy with your ears. Good luck.


So, if he has the time/money to travel to a dealer to audition one of these sets AND the dealer actually has a high end set like this on display, unless it is in a car similar in size and shape to his and he is willing to do the exact same install (i.e. Tuning, driver locations, equipment, etc) how is listening going to help? 

If it is a demo board, said dealer would need to have all the sets in a similar fashion to even do a comparison. And furthermore, let's say this dealer exists and the speakers are on a demo board, he may like one set on the board, but a different one may sound better in his particular car the way he intends to install them. Too many variable if you ask me. 

I would honestly look for good quality drivers that you are able to install properly (i.e. Airspace, locations, axis, etc), give them good, clean power and then it will all come down to the tuning. T/S parameters can tell you with airspace requirements.


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## aykhan (Oct 22, 2015)

Well firstly I don't really have the option of listening to all said speakers. I love music but only just got into high end car audio. Then again I agree it all boils down to tuning.


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## aykhan (Oct 22, 2015)

I'll probably post the install when. Get started. Should have my Thesis amps in 2 weeks.

I have two cars to do actually. The Focals will be fully active and be accompanied by 2 Morel subs. I juts bought Brax Matrix M3CPP a couple of hours ago for the second car after debating a lot on what to buy. These will be run passive with a single Audison TH basso sub and one TH Quattro amp.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

aykhan said:


> Just wondering what is the top of the line 3-way system to run active all 6 components on separate DSP amplifier channels and DSP processed. Is it the Dynaudio Esotar2, the Focal Utopia Be 7 Active, the out of production Audison Thesis K3 orchestra, the Morel Supremo or .....,,, ???


Amazing sound in a car is not plug and play. Good sound in a car is 70% tuning, 20% placement install, 10% equipment. All three sets are stellar, just don't expect sonic nirvana by just installing A, B or C.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Other than the price tag, I don't really see what is the "best" means on this thread.


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## aykhan (Oct 22, 2015)

I do not think price tag alone determines a best speaker. Other factors are in play too. However I hope you don't think a 100 dollar speaker will compare to one that's a thousand. At the end of the day you get what you pay for bro!!!


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## aykhan (Oct 22, 2015)

I hear Focals are bright but with the beryllium model they are warmer. The morels have details but stay warm. I'm sure different speakers have different characteristics and it's nice to have people who have heard them chime in about their pros and cons which can help one who cannot have the opportunity to audition them figure out what would be the "best" for him!!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Tuning tuning tuning tuning 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

aykhan said:


> I do not think price tag alone determines a best speaker. Other factors are in play too. However I hope you don't think a 100 dollar speaker will compare to one that's a thousand. At the end of the day you get what you pay for bro!!!


The difference is not as much as you think. Anyone who is conversant with tuning can actually make selective $100 speakers sound way better than a $1,000 dollar speaker in an amp+sub+$1,000 speaker setup.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> sure


LOL SkizeR always makes me laugh with his comments  lolzzz 

it dont matter what set you buy as 3 way,, it could be morel or Focal for $25K ...they could be the best sounding speakers in the world, but if you dont have the proper amps, dsp, install, and other crap that goes along with it,, they will sound like wall-mart speakers... do it right the first time, and you dont need few $k speakers to make your car sound good


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## Staffordshire (Oct 1, 2011)

price or brand is irrelevant. if you know what you are doing you can make anything sound good


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## aykhan (Oct 22, 2015)

Since we've almost established all speakers are about the same and tuning etc is 90%, I'm planning to get the Helix DSP Pro. Audison Bit One apparently has a few issues. Any other DSP out there that needs to be considered?


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## V 2the C (Mar 12, 2015)

Yea, all speakers are basically the same. I can take a cup , a folder, piece of long copper wire and magnets and make it sound like anything I want it to. With my dsp I can do anything I wish with nothing at all.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

aykhan said:


> Since we've almost established all speakers are about the same and tuning etc is 90%, I'm planning to get the Helix DSP Pro. Audison Bit One apparently has a few issues. Any other DSP out there that needs to be considered?


The Audison Bit One is a very solid and stable processor. I owned one from 2009 - 2014 and it was installed in 2 different cars and 3 different systems. I never once had a single issue with the Bit One.

The only issue I did have was with the DRC remote. I had 2 of them flake out on me over the 5 years of ownership. But my dealer replaced both of them free of charge.


Now.... with the above praise out of the way, I will say this:

The Audison Bit One is definitely lacking in the advanced features that newer DSPs on the market offer. For example:

1. Audison Bit One only has graphic 1/3 octave EQ. No parametric.

2. Bit One only has 1 digital input.

3. Bit One does not allow for linking of EQ channels in "relative" mode. This makes tuning more difficult.

4. Bit One does not have an input matrix. It can only sum signals which is not always desirable.

5. The audio quality out of the Bit One is not the greatest. I have heard confirmation that the Op Amps used are not of the highest quality.



The Helix DSP Pro, Arc Audio PS8, and Mosconi 6to8 are all more powerful in terms of features. All offer parametric EQ, input matrices, and relative mode EQ linking. The Helix and the Mosconi also have options for 2 digital inputs. And the helix Pro offers 10 channels output.


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## lurch (Jan 20, 2014)

im wondering why OP is buying the thesis amps but not using an appropriate
audison DSP. 

didnt mean to change the thread, but i think this is important.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

lurch said:


> im wondering why OP is buying the thesis amps but not using an appropriate
> audison DSP.
> 
> didnt mean to change the thread, but i think this is important.



Well, personally I would suggest other amps besides Audison.

Sinfoni and Mosconi both would be on my list ahead of Audison. But that's just my opinion.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

lurch said:


> im wondering why OP is buying the thesis amps but not using an appropriate
> audison DSP.
> 
> didnt mean to change the thread, but i think this is important.


"appropriate"? Who ever said that it is "appropriate" to use the same brand amp and dsp?

That's like saying you have to use Nike socks when wearing Nike sneakers. It makes no sense.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

High Resolution Audio said:


> "appropriate"? Who ever said that it is "appropriate" to use the same brand amp and dsp?
> 
> That's like saying you have to use Nike socks when wearing Nike sneakers. It makes no sense.


In the case of Audison Thesis, there is an advantage to using an Audison Bit One. The Thesis amps have a digital connection to the Bit One processor.

That is what he was implying by "appropriate" DSP choice with Thesis amps. Using the digital connection requires an Audison processor.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

High Resolution Audio said:


> "appropriate"? Who ever said that it is "appropriate" to use the same brand amp and dsp?
> 
> That's like saying you have to use Nike socks when wearing Nike sneakers. It makes no sense.


If you ask my son, you do have to wear Nike socks with Nike sneakers.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Niebur3 said:


> If you ask my son, you do have to wear Nike socks with Nike sneakers.


bcuz swag?


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Niebur3 said:


> If you ask my son, you do have to wear Nike socks with Nike sneakers.


That's funny..


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> bcuz swag?


True Story!!!



High Resolution Audio said:


> That's funny..


I know. He has to have it all match. lol


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Niebur3 said:


> Sorry, but this is bs. The esotar2 110 tweeter is one of the most detailed tweeters out there when properly tuned.
> 
> 
> I totally disagree. If heard the Esotar2 110 in person through a Dynaudio C1 home stereo speaker at Goodwin's High End in Waltham, MA
> ...


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

oh goodness. please do not use youtube videos as any sort of test to see how something sounds gerald. theyre usually recorded on phones or crappy handy cams who have a very very ****ty mic, and compress the ever living hell out of the audio. then theyre rendered and are compressed again. then they are uploaded and compressed to hell and back yet again. doesnt matter what you are using to listen to it on the other end. you have heard my car just a month ago. do you think this sounds like my car? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J69698cKkc


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

The straight rips are not terrible.. Not great, but you can still get the image and tonality


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

DDfusion said:


> The straight rips are not terrible.. Not great, but you can still get the image and tonality


Thank you for at least listening before making a comment. 

It seems like Nick likes to comment on everything without even listening to videos or reading someone's entire post and maybe learning a thing or two. 

His quick comments just go to show that he would rather hear himself talk ( or rather watch himself type ) than to add something constructive to the conversation. 

I listened to his recording made with a phone and it is by no means a quality recording similar to the ones that I spent an hour searching for. 

Jeeez.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Thank you for at least listening before making a comment.
> 
> It seems like Nick likes to comment on everything without even listening to videos or reading someone's entire post and maybe learning a thing or two.
> 
> ...


i pulled up all of them. listened for a few seconds, and shut them off within a few seconds. the quality on all are just aweful in comparison to listening to the real thing. some of the videos even looked like they were filmed on a potato lol. im not trying to start anything, but i just call it as i see it. and what i see (and know) is that youtube videos are NO WAY to get a reliable "demo". thats a sick joke at best. heres how youtube works. the higher the video resolution, the less it compresses the audio. even at high resolutions, it still compresses it a lot. a 4k resolution video with 320kbps aac audio codec with compress to around 120kbps. lower quality resolution videos (like many of the ones you posted are, are compressed as low as 64kbps and up to 120kbps depending of a couple things. now lets go to the recording device, usually a phone. the most advanced phones today compress audio pretty badly as well, and sometimes even process it themselves to prevent distortion at high volumes. on top of that, a phones mic is certainly not flat. mine phones response is all over the place compared to the mic i showed you. its an extremely unreliable way to get a "demo" of anything. oh, and then theres the tune of the system that your listening to via youtube that you cant be sure of. who knows how they have their eq set.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Btw, I like preventing the spread of misinformation more than I like hearing myself talk 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

I honestly thought his post was a joke. You want to talk about 100 variables. If this was a viable way to demo speakers in the slightest, then every manufacturer/dealer would just post "demo" videos of all their speakers and call it a day.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

aykhan said:


> I do not think price tag alone determines a best speaker. Other factors are in play too. However I hope you don't think a 100 dollar speaker will compare to one that's a thousand. At the end of the day you get what you pay for bro!!!


I would not say this is gospel. To an extent there is some truth to this, but not always. Sure a 100 buck speaker may not sound like a 3k speaker, but I seen and heard several examples where a 2 or 3 hundred dollar speaker was hard to tell vs the 1000 or more dollar speaker. Just picking out the most expensive speaker does not mean it will perform any better then a cheaper one. Its been said already, but the install will have in some cases much more impact than the actually speaker. 

When I joined years back, the push was guys finding cheap/alternative speaker solutions. That was what made the site cool back in the day. I remember googling model numbers because half the speakers I had never heard of them. Guys were using home versions of speakers or finding raw drivers that were hundreds of dollars cheaper than the traditional car audio speakers. Now it seems more guys are relying on traditional car audio speakers vs finding the alternatives. Off a post here and doing a little research, years back I found a MB Quart dome mid that came from some high end home speaker. I paid 50 bucks on clearance from Madisound and bought extra sets in case one bite the dust. I have been hard pressed to hear a mid that sounds as good as that 50 dollar speaker at any price point.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

From my experience the more expensive they get the hard it is to find the gain. Going from $100 to $300 is good. Going from $700 to $1000 is not so much


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## hunde (Nov 14, 2008)

well i'm putting them in my sprinter, have several home pairs, and lots of raw drivers. They can sound great but need very solid high-current to run them. Used OEM dyns in GTI with good amps and were grea. Think the dome mid and tweet on a pillar / dash will be sick , as will md172s a, an number of subs - 'cept dyn. Run on bit one AV5.1k digtally...


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Niebur3 said:


> I honestly thought his post was a joke. You want to talk about 100 variables. If this was a viable way to demo speakers in the slightest, then every manufacturer/dealer would just post "demo" videos of all their speakers and call it a day.


Of course you can't get a good comparison from computer speakers......but you can get a sense of quality from a well recorded video if listened to on a quality pair of headphones. That is, if you can hear.

I have only auditioned Vifa XT25T tweeters only using you-tube videos. I haven't yet heard them in person. But I can tell that for sure that for $32 its a pretty damn good tweeter. Very, very detailed.

If you can't get a sense of what a speaker or system sounds like using a quality recording over a quality set of headphones than maybe you are in the wrong hobby.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Of course you can't get a good comparison from computer speakers......but you can get a sense of quality from a well recorded video if listened to on a quality pair of headphones. That is, if you can hear.
> 
> I have only auditioned Vifa XT25T tweeters only using you-tube videos. I haven't yet heard them in person. But I can tell that for sure that for $32 its a pretty damn good tweeter. Very, very detailed.
> 
> If you can't get a sense of what a speaker or system sounds like using a quality recording over a quality set of headphones than maybe you are in the wrong hobby.


thats the thing.. there are no quality recordings (at least of car sound systems) on youtube. did you skip over my whole post?

if you would like, i can go take my professional video camera that records high bitrate audio with my 350 dollar mic and go make another video and you can see if it compares to how my system sounded to you in person


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Of course you can't get a good comparison from computer speakers......but you can get a sense of quality from a well recorded video if listened to on a quality pair of headphones. That is, if you can hear.
> 
> I have only auditioned Vifa XT25T tweeters only using you-tube videos. I haven't yet heard them in person. But I can tell that for sure that for $32 its a pretty damn good tweeter. Very, very detailed.
> 
> If you can't get a sense of what a speaker or system sounds like using a quality recording over a quality set of headphones than maybe you are in the wrong hobby.


If each speaker was recorded under the same circumstances, then I'd be more likely to think this method would be at least helpful. I'm sorry, but unless the speakers are level matched, recorded in the same room, with the same mic, and with that mic in the same location, these comparisons aren't telling us anything. Some of those videos have the door open, some closed, different cars, different recording devises, in different locations, even with a high quality pair of headphones, I don't believe for a second that you can get an idea of what the speakers actually sound like. 

If someone made proper audio recordings of different tweeters installed on the same baffle, with the same SPL, same audio, same mic in the same spot, in the same (preferable very quiet) room, then maybe listening with a quality pair of headphones over the internet could be somewhat useful, but even then you won't know how those speakers are going to sound in a car, or how they'll sound in A-pillars, sail panels, dash, kicks, etc. This method might be useful for comparing very "warm" speakers to very "harsh" speakers, but everything other than the outliers are going to be very, very difficult to tell apart.

Just to add something on the original topic. The speakers listed are all very capable, with the right setup. i wouldn't call any of them better than the others, necessarily. Many people use speakers "out of the box" so they may have personal preferences, but if you have active tuning then you can really tailor any speaker to the sound you want. Sure, some are going to do better in some areas than others, but any one of the choices you suggested would have a lot of potential for excellent sound.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Of course you can't get a good comparison from computer speakers......but you can get a sense of quality from a well recorded video if listened to on a quality pair of headphones. That is, if you can hear.
> 
> I have only auditioned Vifa XT25T tweeters only using you-tube videos. I haven't yet heard them in person. But I can tell that for sure that for $32 its a pretty damn good tweeter. Very, very detailed.
> 
> If you can't get a sense of what a speaker or system sounds like using a quality recording over a quality set of headphones than maybe you are in the wrong hobby.


This is completely ridiculous. 

Let's just say that the video would be of sufficient quality to tell (which it isn't in any sense of the word), how do you know the speakers are mounted properly and tuned properly. How do you know where mic is even being held. This whole idea is just ludicrous.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Niebur3 said:


> This is completely ridiculous.
> 
> Let's just say that the video would be of sufficient quality to tell (which it isn't in any sense of the word), how do you know the speakers are mounted properly and tuned properly. How do you know where mic is even being held. This whole idea is just ludicrous.


1. Have you listened to a Vifa xt25T tweeter?
2. Is it detailed ?
3. Would you classify it as a good sounding, detailed tweeter?

If yes to the above, than how could I have gathered that impression without ever hearing one in person?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> 1. Have you listened to a Vifa xt25T tweeter?
> 2. Is it detailed ?
> 3. Would you classify it as a good sounding, detailed tweeter?
> 
> If yes to the above, than how could I have gathered that impression without ever hearing one in person?


Maybe you were subconsciously agreeing with the tons of reviews and statements about them. And yes, I've heard and tuned them. They're pretty good, especially for the price. But I do think people exaggerate about how good they really are. Don't get me wrong, they're great for what they are, but some people seem to take it overboard about how good they are

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Maybe you were subconsciously agreeing with the tons of reviews and statements about them. And yes, I've heard and tuned them. They're pretty good, especially for the price. But I do think people exaggerate about how good they really are. Don't get me wrong, they're great for what they are, but some people seem to take it overboard about how good they are
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


I've never read any reviews. It's my observation from listening to you-tube videos. 

I'm not saying one can get a clear picture how a sound system images, and all the fine details needed to evaluate the system as a whole, but one can get a general sense of tonality, detail, and resolution. If one knows how to listen.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> I've never read any reviews.


 im sorry i just dont believe that. where would you have heard about them from and wanting to look into them? unless you go through websites catalogs and "auditioning" all of the drivers they sell. also, how did you know that the general conscientious was they they sound detailed?


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> im sorry i just dont believe that. where would you have heard about them from and wanting to look into them? unless you go through websites catalogs and "auditioning" all of the drivers they sell. also, how did you know that the general conscientious was they they sound detailed?


Because I've spend hours on you-tube "demo"ing car audio systems.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

High Resolution Audio said:


> 1. Have you listened to a Vifa xt25T tweeter?
> 2. Is it detailed ?
> 3. Would you classify it as a good sounding, detailed tweeter?
> 
> If yes to the above, than how could I have gathered that impression without ever hearing one in person?


Seriously??? 



High Resolution Audio said:


> Because I've spend hours on you-tube "demo"ing car audio systems.


hahahahahaha This might become my new quote. I might get a slap on the wrist for this, but this is the MOST retarded thing I have ever read. The notion you can demo systems or even individual speakers over the internet AND it be an accurate representation of said system/speaker.

Maybe High Resolution is on to something. Maybe a competition organization will start an online sound competition where you just submit videos and people won't have to drive to the meets anymore. Then everyone could compete, even if it is not currently available in their area. Genius!!!!! hahahahahaha


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

High Resolution Audio said:


> Because I've spend hours on you-tube "demo"ing car audio systems.


Sorry if this comes off as too harsh, but that ONLY means you have spent countless hours "demo" ing your computer speakers!!!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

seafish said:


> Sorry if this comes off as too harsh, but that ONLY means you have spent countless hours "demo" ing your computer speakers!!!


and ****ty microphones, various compression algorithms, and youtubes compression.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

seafish said:


> Sorry if this comes off as too harsh, but that ONLY means you have spent countless hours "demo" ing your computer speakers!!!


If you read my earlier posts you would learn that I used quality headphones....and quality recordings, and discredited the low quality recordings. I even stated that you couldn't do this with just computer speakers.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> and ****ty microphones, various compression algorithms, and youtubes compression.


I am able to discern between low quality recordings and high quality recordings. I guess everything sounds the same to you!


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Niebur3 said:


> Seriously???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In post #49 I stated I Quote:
"I'm not saying one can get a clear picture how a sound system images, and all the fine details needed to evaluate the system as a whole, but one can get a general sense of tonality, detail, and resolution. If one knows how to listen."


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

im watching your scanspeak videos now on my computer setup (zapco dc amp, and era PL24 speakers). if i had to actually judge them as if thats how they actually sounded, the first one sounded brittle and actually kinda painful at high volumes. the second video seems like it has a few various frequency response issues. the third one had a ton of distortion, didnt seem to have any dynamic range, and was also brittle sounding. the fourth one sounded like an obvious phone recording. upper midrange just seemed all sorts of ****ed on that female voice. and same with the fifth one. just sounded like a phone recording. just all sorts of ****ey. these scans all sound nothing like mine do in person. not even the slightest.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

High Resolution Audio said:


> In post #49 I stated I Quote:
> "I'm not saying one can get a clear picture how a sound system images, and all the fine details needed to evaluate the system as a whole, but one can get a general sense of tonality, detail, and resolution. If one knows how to listen."


No you can't. Anyone attempting to is just delusional.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Niebur3 said:


> No you can't. Anyone attempting to is just delusional.


I can't even believe this is being debated.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> im watching your scanspeak videos now on my computer setup (zapco dc amp, and era PL24 speakers). if i had to actually judge them as if thats how they actually sounded, the first one sounded brittle and actually kinda painful at high volumes. the second video seems like it has a few various frequency response issues. the third one had a ton of distortion, didnt seem to have any dynamic range, and was also brittle sounding. the fourth one sounded like an obvious phone recording. upper midrange just seemed all sorts of ****ed on that female voice. and same with the fifth one. just sounded like a phone recording. just all sorts of ****ey. these scans all sound nothing like mine do in person. not even the slightest.


It looks as you just critiqued sound systems via you-tube video? Great Job! You were able to discern such details as upper midrange issues, and frequency response issues! Impossible to do. You must be smoking something in order to preform such great feats. Also I agree with you that the third recording was of low quality and done with a phone. My point being you were able to tell differences.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I can't even believe this is being debated.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR



U and me both!


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

Niebur3 said:


> No you can't. Anyone attempting to is just delusional.


SkizeR just proved my point. He critiqued videos of sound systems using you-tube videos. He was even able to point out upper midrange issues.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> It looks as you just critiqued sound systems via you-tube video? Great Job! You were able to discern such details as upper midrange issues, and frequency response issues! Impossible to do. You must be smoking something in order to preform such great feats. Also I agree with you that the third recording was of low quality and done with a phone. My point being you were able to tell differences.


but you claim to be using this as a reference. thats absurd


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> SkizeR just proved my point. He critiqued videos of sound systems using you-tube videos. He was even able to point out upper midrange issues.


no no no. i was proving my point that you cant trust what the hell your hearing through a youtube video. my video sounds like ass, yet in person YOU PERSONALLY KNOW sounds beautiful. (you said so about both yourself). i think you actually proved my point


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

The point isn't; that you cannot tell differences between recordings of different speakers. 

The point is; you cannot attribute those differences to the speakers themselves.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

High Resolution Audio said:


> SkizeR just proved my point. He critiqued videos of sound systems using you-tube videos. He was even able to point out upper midrange issues.


Can you please tell me how all the drivers in each of your videos were installed? 

Can you tell me if they are active or passive or anything at all about the tuning?

What mic was used to record the video....the positioning of the mic.....the compression rates....the effect of your sound card in your computer.......the effect your awesome headphone have, if any.

Even with ALL of the above answered, there are still 5-10 variables I didn't account for AND why this whole topic or "claim" is completely bogus. But keep typing away trying to defend it, you are losing credibility with each keystroke.


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

brumledb said:


> The point isn't; that you cannot tell differences between recordings of different speakers.
> 
> The point is; you cannot attribute those differences to the speakers themselves.


By only listening to various you-tube car audio videos with my Audio Technica headphones, I was able to pick three brands of tweeters that sounded best to me. Dynaudio, Vifa, and ScanSpeak. I purchased ScanSpeak R3004 from madisound never hearing them in person. 

If you folks don't have the hearing necessary to do what I did, it does not mean it cant be done!

I didn't care for Hertz, and I didn't care for Focal.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

High Resolution Audio said:


> By only listening to various you-tube car audio videos with my Audio Technica headphones, I was able to pick three brands of tweeters that sounded best to me. Dynaudio, Vifa, and ScanSpeak. I purchased ScanSpeak R3004 from madisound never hearing them in person.
> 
> If you folks don't have the hearing necessary to do what I did, it does not mean it cant be done!


but you told me in person you dont like the sound of dynaudio stuff..?


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## High Resolution Audio (Sep 12, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> but you told me in person you dont like the sound of dynaudio stuff..?


The dynaudio tweeter is quite good. It is a slightly less detailed than Scan for my taste. I think that it's way overpriced.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

High Resolution Audio said:


> If you folks don't have the hearing necessary to do what I did, it does not mean it cant be done!
> 
> I didn't care for Hertz, and I didn't care for Focal.


Really???? Now you have magical hearing that defies all logic???? hahahahahaha This keeps getting better and better. :laugh::laugh:


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

piggy backing on the thread. 
is Helix and Braxx the same? i noticed the drivers look very similar


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

vwjmkv said:


> piggy backing on the thread.
> is Helix and Braxx the same? i noticed the drivers look very similar


same parent company


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

hey jerry, when you get a chance, can you take a video of the sinfonis and upload it to youtube so i know if theyre good or not? thanks


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## Pitmaster (Feb 16, 2010)

Nick and Jerry, don't waste your time. Brett is right. 
I think he just Trolling.


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## aykhan (Oct 22, 2015)

I wouldn't judge equipment based on YouTube vids either but hey maybe I don't have that discerning ear. Getting back to the topic, since speakers are individual choices mostly and mostly everything is about tuning, has anyone used the Helix DSP Pro? I want to use that in my setup. I will only have the 3-way front stage and no rear fill; should I tune each of the six components separately?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

aykhan said:


> I wouldn't judge equipment based on YouTube vids either but hey maybe I don't have that discerning ear. Getting back to the topic, since speakers are individual choices mostly and mostly everything is about tuning, has anyone used the Helix DSP Pro? I want to use that in my setup. I will only have the 3-way front stage and no rear fill; should I tune each of the six components separately?


a bunch of people are. its arguably the best processor on the market right now


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> hey jerry, when you get a chance, can you take a video of the sinfonis and upload it to youtube so i know if theyre good or not? thanks


As soon as my fever breaks, no problem. God I hate being sick. 



Pitmaster said:


> Nick and Jerry, don't waste your time. Brett is right.
> I think he just Trolling.


Probably. Besides, if he believes his delusional theory, it's his prerogative.


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## Pitmaster (Feb 16, 2010)

Niebur3 said:


> As soon as my fever breaks, no problem. God I hate being sick.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably. Besides, if he believes his delusional theory, it's his prerogative.


Exactly.
I hope you feel better.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

High Resolution Audio said:


> If you can't get a sense of what a speaker or system sounds like using a quality recording over a quality set of headphones than maybe you are in the wrong hobby.


With a handle like 'High Resolution Audio', one would assume that you can hear a difference between hi res and lo res, and yet you list crappy, compressed youtube vids as ref? And you spend hours demoing car audio setups based on Youtube vids? Crappy audio quality will not become magically better by just listening on a good pair of headsets. A turd on a plate doesn't become a wagyu steak just cause you kept the plate in a Porsche.

I have to agree with Jerry and Nick, your posts are hilarious at best and you probably don't hear a difference between hi-res redbook recording and crappy lo-res you tube vids.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Might as well try to determine sound quality through a cb radio.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Might as well try to determine sound quality through a cb radio.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


bret. call me. i want to give you a demo


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

aykhan said:


> I hear Focals are bright but with the beryllium model they are warmer. The morels have details but stay warm. I'm sure different speakers have different characteristics and it's nice to have people who have heard them chime in about their pros and cons which can help one who cannot have the opportunity to audition them figure out what would be the "best" for him!!


TBH I think you've read too much and auditioned too little. Time to hit the sq events in your area and listen to the real deals in our member's cars.



Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> bret. call me. i want to give you a demo


roflmao.
No thanks Nick,
I lost your 900 number.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> TBH I think you've read too much and auditioned too little. Time to hit the sq events in your area and listen to the real deals in our member's cars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


x2. i used to take forum comments for gospel back when i first started. then i realized a lot of it was false and thats why i argue a lot on here, to stop the spread of bad/wrong info


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> roflmao.
> No thanks Nick,
> I lost your 900 number.
> 
> ...


maybe we can video chat via FB then so you can actually "see" the stage too


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> maybe we can video chat via FB then so you can actually "see" the stage too



Wanna FaceTime?

**** who needs competitions. We can just compete via YouTube.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

^^^I already proposed that a few posts back! Maybe I should register the domain "SQCompetitionOnline.com"

SPL might be a littler harder, but what the hell.....I'll just get a headphone amplifier.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Niebur3 said:


> ^^^I already proposed that a few posts back! Maybe I should register the domain "SQCompetitionOnline.com"


Yaaay!!! I can finally compete, get well soon Jerry.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Pitmaster said:


> Nick and Jerry, don't waste your time. Brett is right.
> I think he just Trolling.


To be fair, HRA is not exactly a troll, he posts on here off and on. That said, he has some really funky pup, delusional type of beliefs and seems to inhabit the vast wastelands between, don't know and I know I'm right.


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