# Zapco DSP8



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Ok so it's 8 channels and an upgrade to the DSP6. What else can we expect to see?

Is it going to use FIR filters with minimal ringing?
EQ limitations?
Inputs?
Compare feature/vs loading presets?
When will it be available?
Estimated price?

Discuss.


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

durwood said:


> Ok so it's 8 channels and an upgrade to the DSP6. What else can we expect to see?
> 
> Is it going to use FIR filters with minimal ringing?
> EQ limitations?
> ...


I doubt you will see one until 2009 if ever. If you want to run a 3 way use a DSP6 and a DC amp for the sub. Use the DSP6 for tweet, mid, & midbass. Same thing.
K


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

I don't really need it as I have found a better alternative, but Robert asked that we discuss it in another thread. I'm just pushing it since there are so few 4-way dsp units available, and everyone is always looking for an alternative to the H701 or the DRZ9255 or the P9.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

durwood said:


> I don't really need it as I have found a better alternative,



Let's discuss!!!


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

SQ_Baru said:


> Let's discuss!!!



shouldn't we keep this one on topic?

Better yet, we should discuss software updates that Zapco should be making - maybe not, I don't want to get yelled at


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## low (Jun 2, 2005)

rcurley55 said:


> shouldn't we keep this one on topic?
> 
> Better yet, we should discuss software updates that Zapco should be making - maybe not, I don't want to get yelled at


bow wow wow... bow wow!!lol!


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

SQ_Baru said:


> Let's discuss!!!












I've posted this in other random places but I guess once more won't hurt. But enough about that. 



rcurley55 said:


> shouldn't we keep this one on topic?
> 
> Better yet, we should discuss software updates that Zapco should be making - maybe not, I don't want to get yelled at


What does there software lack or what needs to be changed? I halfway saw it in action and it looked nice. What options are they looking at adding or what does it need?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I just got my DC REF system up and running. Can't make too many comments at this point. I do know that the combo between a PC based RTA program and DC enabled amps is truely powerful. You can see response variations in the RTA window, make instant corrections in DPN, then bounce back to the RTA window to see your results. This makes tuning your frequency response a snap! 

I've brought up one of my major wishes with Zapco. They explained to me that what I requested would require too much processing power and would risk degrading sound quality. Well, we can't have that now can we? Don't expect to see major updates until they update hardware to faster DSP units and more memory space.

Zapco did mention making some minor updates that seem beneficial. However, I was told this in confidence and am not at liberty to discuss.

I'm sure they also have some tricks up their sleeves they have not disclosed to the public. Perhaps an autotuning algorithm to give us a good start? I'm sure they are well aware that devices such as the MS-8 are on the horizon and will need to keep up with the Jones'ez or even 1up them.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Durwood,

Is that Labview (or some alternative) or Analog Device's SigmaDSP development platform?

Ge0


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

sorry - double post


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

durwood said:


> What does there software lack or what needs to be changed? I halfway saw it in action and it looked nice. What options are they looking at adding or what does it need?


I don't want to open a huge can of worms, but I feel it lacks organization - I would prefer it to have a function-centric layout in addition to the current channel-centric layout.

Phase is a great example - rather than have to switch from channel to channel to set the phase of the system - why not have one screen display the phase of all channels on the network and a simple radio style button to flip b/t 0 and 180 degrees? That would be MUCH easier then selecting channel 1 on amplifier 1, set phase, switch to channel 2, repeat, then switch to another amp, then to channel 1, rinse and repeat. Removes a ton of mouse clicks and would let you monitor the system very quickly. Same thing exactly for TA - if your sub is the furthest from you you should be able to tweak all drivers from there without moving screens - just display all of the T/A data on the same screen at once.

Same for x-over - it would be cool to use the current eq graph to show all the x-over points in the whole system - tmk, it won't let you do that. It would make it easy to see under/over lap, and the gain structure. Use different colors for each channel and you could see the processed FR of the system on one screen.

I think it would make way more sense for the default x-over and eq points in the drop down boxes to be at 1/3 octave intervals rather than linear.

It would be nice to be able to drag and drop the different "modules" around the screen and organize them to your liking - especially for those of us with larger laptop monitors - allow you to add more modules on screen.

You should also be able to load all 5 presets and compare them all - or at least label them. It's super frustrating if you have not touched the system in a long time and you want to compare your settings or at least know what they are (yes, I know you can export them - and name them - but we are talking improvements)

I think the software is a good start, and I liked using it. I also think they show all the right info, but just in the wrong ways at times. It's certainly the future, I could just see it being GREAT.


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Ge0 said:


> Durwood,
> 
> Is that Labview (or some alternative) or Analog Device's SigmaDSP development platform?
> 
> Ge0


Nope.

A program called console that allows me to string VST software plugins together in any fashion I want all in real time on a PC. The limitation becomes the CPU, but our CPU's are extremely fast and does not limit you to a DSP chips power. The other limitation is the soundcard, but if you really need more than 8 channels, then it can be done.

A PC in the car is not quite as easy as tucking away a brainbox though. 

Rcurley55-

I wonder if Zapco could give you both types of screens? It seems like nothing more than a skinning or GUI overlay. I wonder why they can just have different screens you could flip back and forth depending on how you want to use it? I imagine the GUI is just a bunch of labels that could be arrange in any way.

I hear you though, the software plugin I use for the crossovers on my carpc overlays all the crossovers on one graph and it's extremely useful. It even allows you to apply a 4 band parametric and see what it's doing to the graph. I'd love to do a write up on the whole thing but it's quite time consuming.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

durwood said:


> Rcurley55-
> 
> I wonder if Zapco could give you both types of screens? It seems like nothing more than a skinning or GUI overlay. I wonder why they can just have different screens you could flip back and forth depending on how you want to use it? I imagine the GUI is just a bunch of labels that could be arrange in any way.


that's pretty much what I had in mind - let the user organize the data how they like to work with it as opposed to just one manner.

I'm not a software engineer (my application programming is pretty limited) but it doesn't seem like it would be that bad to do.

My bet though is that these kinds of changes (which I would have though should have been in off the bat) probably won't affect the number of units sold which means unless these guys are twiddling their thumbs or they don't like maximizing profit, it ain't gonna happen  But, you never know...


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

I've heard tons of opinions on what Zapcos DPN software GUI should do. You can never satisfy all.

Here's an idea Robert.

The GUI has to send a standard command set to the amps to set them. Make the GUI open source! Provide the few users who want to change the GUI the ability to do this through a developers tool kit. Who knows, maybe somebody will create something ZAPCO likes better.

I've noticed quite a few people hanging around this forum who have nothing but time on their hands (i.e. thousands of posts). Me being one of them lately. Let them have a stab at it. I'm sure there are some talented programmers on this, and other, forums. Let them do the work for you!!! 

Ge0


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

I thought about that George, but what happens when someone bricks an amp due to a piece of software built by a user - Zapco has to have some kind of insulation.

This is a whole lot different than a Linux distro!


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

rcurley55 said:


> I thought about that George, but what happens when someone bricks an amp due to a piece of software built by a user - Zapco has to have some kind of insulation.
> 
> This is a whole lot different than a Linux distro!


Legal disclaimers? Software lockout and Safeguards? I don't know the answer. WINAMP provides a similar function without getting caught with their pants down. Why can't Zapco?

The software development department in my company does something called software validation. An independant party needs to hammer through the code and find bugs before it is allowed to be put in use.

This may take a lot on Zapco's behalf, but... Say Zapco locks out the ability to write to an amp in the beginning. What if someone designs a GUI, submits it to Zapco for testing, then is allowed to use it with their amp once approved?

Hell, Zapco doesn't necessarily have to manage this themselves. They could assign a trusted party this ability. Perhaps this trusted party would do this not for profit, but for an occasional free perk (hint hint).

Ultimately this is Zapco's decision. They need to do what is best for their comapny and for the protection of their product. I'm sure something could be arranged with little risk or effort.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Oh, by the way Rob, your cables have found a happy home. They are not dressed as pretty as they wished for now, but they are performing their function well.

Ge0


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## Robert_R (Jun 18, 2007)

I like all the input so far guys. 

Keep it coming. 


My wife just yelled at me to get off the forum  so I will respond more tomorrow


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I like all the input so far guys.
> 
> Keep it coming.
> 
> ...


Robert,

You have an excellent product. You also beat the pants off everyone else as far as customer service. It's good to know you listen in on this drool. That's icing on the cake.

My humble opinion, you should listen in close to this one. It may give you ideas for a competitive edge. Be a pioneer and let the users design stuff for you!!!

Ge0


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> Legal disclaimers? Software lockout and Safeguards? I don't know the answer. WINAMP provides a similar function without getting caught with their pants down. Why can't Zapco?
> 
> The software development department in my company does something called software validation. An independant party needs to hammer through the code and find bugs before it is allowed to be put in use.
> 
> ...


all good points - as you can tell, I'm not much of a SW guy 

It would be cool b/c I know with some brainstorming you could build an AWESOME GUI for these products - the info is there, it's just the organization.

Glad to hear the cables worked out for you. Good timing as well - I've had more than a few requests for them via pm.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

a mixed mono channel or ability to do Mixed mono for people doing Multimedia type systems would be excellent....
Ie....center channel processing or mono sub output.


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

I second the option to label your presets! An expander would be nice too.

K


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## Daishi (Apr 18, 2006)

I would love to have a DSP from Zapco that could handle standard RCA inputs/outputs. I rather not have to use conversion cables, or things of the like...it's just too expensive and too much of a mess in my opinion. The manual shows that it has this option, but the actual shots I've seen of the DSP6 they're gone 

And nobody tell me to go out and buy Zapco amps  I've looked into it...I need a LITTLE trunk room still LOL.


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

I'm not software guru myself, but it seems like a very viable option IF the GUI is seperate from the actual way it communicates to the DSP/amp. For example, one of the software plugins I'm using is called Frequency Allocator. The actual program has a few files, one is a "skin" file all done in XML while the behind the scenes programming that performs the processing is not accessible. I know there are XML editors out there and all it does it arrange labels and such in a graphical layout. Hell, they might be able to even makes some type of skin editor to make it easier. 

Things like this are done all over MP3car for all the different software frontends and many people openly share ideas and create their own skins for things. I'm just brainstorming, but if the vital parts of the program can be contained in some backend that is not accessible by users but only sends the info from the the frontend, then I think people might be able to make their own "skins" for it. 

Maybe have a contest with prize money to generate peoples interest in designing the frontend. I guess it all depends if Zapco's software can be broken down into a frontend and backend and if they are willing to spend the money to change it if they need to. Just my thoughts and ramblings.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Daishi said:


> And nobody tell me to go out and buy Zapco amps  I've looked into it...I need a LITTLE trunk room still LOL.


They aren't as big as they first appear. Well, my DC650.6 is a long sucker, but it is extremely narrow. The DC500.1 is surprisingly small. Smaller footprint than my old JL 500/1.

Ge0


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## Robert_R (Jun 18, 2007)

ok guys, A few things. 

Most of the suggestions so far have been GUI oriented. I like the ideas and we will see what we can do. The one thing that worries me at this point is changing the GUI after all the guys using it have gotten use to it. I like the idea of maybe being able to select between two different ones. Or maybe a GUI kit that will allow you to design your own. While I think all of these are great ideas I am not sure how much they will boost sales. Lets face, there is a select group that will actually use these options. So maybe a two choice lay out of the GUI's like RC mentioned would be a good idea. 

The RTA feature has been brought up MANY MANY times. Its being looked into.  

Naming the Presets and the deceives is being looked into as well. 

What else you guys need. Any new features you want to see added. 

36,48,96 db slopes. TA in what increments Phase in what increments. 

Now on a factory integration side of things what would you like it to do?


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> What else you guys need. Any new features you want to see added.
> 
> 36,48,96 db slopes. TA in what increments Phase in what increments.
> 
> Now on a factory integration side of things what would you like it to do?


Adaptive loudness EQ compensation for factory integration? Varies with volume so you can still use the factory volume knob if desired.

slopes in 6db increments up to 96db/oct would be nice. 

TA in at least 50us increments if not 10us increments.

Phase adj 5-10degs increments. Can your DSP6 do phase adjustment already more than a simple 0/180 flip?


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> ok guys, A few things.
> 
> Most of the suggestions so far have been GUI oriented. I like the ideas and we will see what we can do. The one thing that worries me at this point is changing the GUI after all the guys using it have gotten use to it. I like the idea of maybe being able to select between two different ones. Or maybe a GUI kit that will allow you to design your own. While I think all of these are great ideas I am not sure how much they will boost sales. Lets face, there is a select group that will actually use these options. So maybe a two choice lay out of the GUI's like RC mentioned would be a good idea.


I figured ROI would be the issue 



> Naming the Presets and the deceives is being looked into as well.


This would be cool



> What else you guys need. Any new features you want to see added.
> 
> 36,48,96 db slopes. TA in what increments Phase in what increments.


To me, the ta needs to be finer, so does the gain and eq adjustments - 1dB is too large of a step - move to 1/2 dB steps and it would be awesome. That would really help us using amplitude alignment to get our systems dialed in.



> Now on a factory integration side of things what would you like it to do?


I think it would be best to make this an add on - like a black box that will do some summing and convert back to analog, then symblink into the dsp. You already have blt's that do this for full range ouputs. EQ correction is not that valuable imo unless it does it across a wide number of input gains, and that would require a ton of processing.


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

rcurley55 said:


> To me, the ta needs to be finer, so does the gain and eq adjustments - 1dB is too large of a step - move to 1/2 dB steps and it would be awesome.


or 0.1db steps even. although 0.25 or 0.5 would be sufficient if you need to save processing power but 1db steps is not good enough IMO.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

durwood said:


> or 0.1db steps even. although 0.25 or 0.5 would be sufficient if you need to save processing power but 1db steps is not good enough IMO.


I think at some point things would become overkill - kinda like allowing you to use any frequency for a crossover point - I mean who really is going to sit there and debate 4178Hz and 4179Hz for a crossover point?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> The RTA feature has been brought up MANY MANY times. Its being looked into.


I was going to bring this up but felt confident someone, at some time, had probably already done so. You know what would be slick? Take that little window thingy that displays how the filters behave as you adjust them and replace it with the RTA readout. That way I can see in real time how my adjustments change the ACTUAL in vehicle response. I have the ability to do this now to some degree, but I have to flip between software packages to do so.




[email protected] said:


> Now on a factory integration side of things what would you like it to do?


Uhm, I don't know, maybe.... AUTOCALIBRATE!!! The other guys do this in a someone half ..... manor. One up them and do it right. Do it the Zapco way, no compromises.

Perhaps in future generations of the DC amp series boost up your DSP processing power. I know everyone here would probably like to add more parametric bands and perhaps 1/3rd octave EQ function.

You mention that the people reading this thread are a small majority of potential users. My opinion is that we must be a larger majority. I've accepted the fact that these products cost more than my first car. It is a specialized piece of equipment intend for a specialized group of people. So be it, I know I'm getting top notch product and customer support. But, is does Joe public think the same. Most likely not.

If you want to increase sales within this group of bone heads here then give us some features we ask for, you know, throw us a bone .

If you want to increase TOTAL sales of digitally controlled amps then I'm affraid you'll need to offer a lower end product that has some of the features of the current DC ref series but not all the bells and whistles that drive up cost. I'm sure tons of people that frequent these forums would jump at the chance to buy a $600 or $800 amp with comparable features vs. $1400 for one that might be overkill for their needs.

Just my $0.02

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

durwood said:


> Adaptive loudness EQ compensation for factory integration? Varies with volume so you can still use the factory volume knob if desired.


MOST DEFINITELY!

Ge0


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

the bulk of the market wants 1kW of power with blue leds and chrome housings that costs $150 and oh yeah, will get installed for free with a lifetime warranty.

we are a VERY small part of the industry.


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## Robert_R (Jun 18, 2007)

Ge0 said:


> You mention that the people reading this thread are a small majority of potential users. My opinion is that we must be a larger majority. I've accepted the fact that these products cost more than my first car. It is a specialized piece of equipment intend for a specialized group of people. So be it, I know I'm getting top notch product and customer support. But, is does Joe public think the same. Most likely not.
> 
> If you want to increase sales within this group of bone heads here then give us some features we ask for, you know, throw us a bone .
> 
> ...


See what we have to get accross to Joe public is that there is value in this type of product. Now maybe we will be chasing our tail cause some like RC mentioned want chrome and blue lights.  

Dont get me wrong I dont think you guys are not an important part of the market. I think you are a very important part. If I didnt I would not be here. What I meant was in numbers. I would love for all of you guys to have DC stuff. But in the end I still need dealers to push the product as well. 

Dont worry I will throw you a bone guys. Im asking cause you guys are important. 

Like the idea of making an entry level piece. Could be interesting.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

rcurley55 said:


> the bulk of the market wants 1kW of power with blue leds and chrome housings that costs $150 and oh yeah, will get installed for free with a lifetime warranty.
> 
> we are a VERY small part of the industry.


Sure Rob, these knuckle heads rule the masses. However, I'm not talking about the guy who buys a pre-packaged system from Best Buy.

Between this forum, and many others like it, I bet you there are a hundreds of potential customers that know a little more than the average bear and would like to give a DSP controlled amp a try. However, many of them can't quite finance a complete system loaded with DC ref amps.

It would be sweet if cheaper alternatives existed.

If Zapco really wanted to cater to the masses perhaps they could license the rights to use Sony's x-Plod graphics    

Ge0


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## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

I betcha if Zapco could somehow get the price closer to an H701 or a Clarion DRZ9255, there would be plenty of people trading in their Alpines. Just a thought or two


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> See what we have to get accross to Joe public is that there is value in this type of product. Now maybe we will be chasing our tail cause some like RC mentioned want chrome and blue lights. .


In my most humble opinion, I truely believe that in order to get the average Joe excited about this stuff you need to spend A LOT of time and effort educating the dealer network. Exactly what do they have and how can they use this to their benefit?

You also need to add dealers in as many major metropolitain areas as you can muster. I think I mentioned before that I did not have a dealer within 350 miles of me. There's about 4 million people in the city and suburbia I live in. One would think that if even a single GOOD dealer or rep existed in many of these areas, sales would improve significantly. I made an attempt to give you some leads and offered some assistance in a thread we both exchanged messages in a while back. The offer is still open. 



[email protected] said:


> But in the end I still need dealers to push the product as well.


I believe this is where some of the simpler entry level DSP controlled equipment would come in handy. It's easier for them to push and gets their feet wet using the technology. They always have the option of offering more advanced gear to the occasional customer who demands more.

It's sad to say, but, you may never have HUGE success with this stuff. The average user will never get in and tweak their system as most of us here would. All they need to know is where the volume, gain, and bass boost knobs are. If the average user does not need it, why does the dealer? What advantage is this gear to a dealer if his user base does not demand it? I can't see a dealer spec'ing out DC ref type amplifier products if they are the only ones who will ever touch on it's full capabilities. Especially if DSP equipt increases cost significantly over conventional simplified analog controls.

This my friend is the puzzle you need to solve.

Perhaps adding a LED based spectrum analyzer to the top of the amp and some Chrome accents will give you a good head start .

I truely wish all product offereings would go the way of TOTAL digital control. It is the way of the future. However, I am a minority.

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

durwood said:


> I betcha if Zapco could somehow get the price closer to an H701 or a Clarion DRZ9255, there would be plenty of people trading in their Alpines. Just a thought or two


YUP!!!!!!!!!!!

Ge0


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

Ge0 said:


> Between this forum, and many others like it, I bet you there are a hundreds of potential customers that know a little more than the average bear and would like to give a DSP controlled amp a try. However, many of them can't quite finance a complete system loaded with DC ref amps.


While that's true, you gotta think about the ROI - let's say 10% of us are adopters of such a technology - the price has to be up there just to break even on the R&D + cost of goods sold.

Products like the alpine 701 hit two markets - the tweakers like us, and the multimedia crowd. In today's market it's WAY easier (I would hypothesize) to convince some guy who wants a pimp surround + video system (much more common) to get the alpine and on top of that they get all these settings to play with, than it is to convert someone to a sq system. It's an uphill battle that the industry has been facing for a LONG time.


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## gunn234 (Feb 27, 2007)

How hard would it be to make the volume controllable using any head unit's preouts for controlling the volume even if wanting to primarily use the digital input. While the DSP unit is not doing any processing with the analog signal coming in, it controls the output of the whole deal by the amount of attenuation and increase the preout.

Doesn't the Macrom unit do this? I has some sort of implication if you look in the manual, but then I might have misunderstood. 

I do think that is is do-able though.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

rcurley55 said:


> While that's true, you gotta think about the ROI - let's say 10% of us are adopters of such a technology - the price has to be up there just to break even on the R&D + cost of goods sold.


I'm well aware of having to lay out a little cash to make money. I design high volume electronics for a living. You need to determine what is a wise investment and what is not. Sometimes you need to spend money just to help determine what is a wise investment!. 

This issue comes down to a simple supply vs demand curve. How many units would a company like, say,... Zapco sell if they reduced their cost to $400 for a DC650.6. Probably a boatload. However, they would probably just break even. Can't stay in business doing this for too long. Charge $1400 for a product and you'll recoup you R&D money. But, do you maximize your potential? This gets tricky. If you lower prices gradually you may find the sweet spot. However, you may also lower your prices too much. The consumer base would not take a price reduction and then a price increease. How to get around this? Well, change your model number/feature set slightly. Make the consumer percieve this is a different product, therefore justifying a price change either way.



rcurley55 said:


> Products like the alpine 701 hit two markets - the tweakers like us, and the multimedia crowd. In today's market it's WAY easier (I would hypothesize) to convince some guy who wants a pimp surround + video system (much more common) to get the alpine and on top of that they get all these settings to play with, than it is to convert someone to a sq system. It's an uphill battle that the industry has been facing for a LONG time.


Well, there is no saying that a Zapco piece could not replace the Alpine given the right price point.

Maybe this is not the right market for Zapco to be in though. Would they then just be another company competing against the masses? Or, do they remain a product whom people strive for some day when they can make enough money to do so? In a totally unrelated market, Louise Vuitton and Gucci seem to keep themselves in business. Maybe Zapco needs to hire scantly clad, classy, famous, ultra hot babes to model their equipment .

Ge0


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

gunn234 said:


> How hard would it be to make the volume controllable using any head unit's preouts for controlling the volume even if wanting to primarily use the digital input. While the DSP unit is not doing any processing with the analog signal coming in, it controls the output of the whole deal by the amount of attenuation and increase the preout.
> 
> Doesn't the Macrom unit do this? I has some sort of implication if you look in the manual, but then I might have misunderstood.
> 
> I do think that is is do-able though.


Are you discussing supplying an optical digital input to an external processor but still being able to control volume via a standard head unit? You mention using the analog input as a kind of simple communications to let the digital section know when to boost/attenuate volume. Hmmm... Smart, just might work.

A bugaboo of the past has been this is not possible without direct communications between the head and external processor. One needs to tell the other how to process the signal. Alpine does this through AiNET. OEMs do this through some proprietary buss. Aftermarket products do not interlink well without cooperating with each other. Interfacing between OEM stuff and aftermarket stuff gets even more complicated. However, using the analog signal as a control over the digital just might be the missing link. At least for some systems. More often than not, its the other way around. Analog boost/gain is controlled by digital logic between modules. At least this is the way my stock system behaves.

Ge0


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## gunn234 (Feb 27, 2007)

BTW, when looking at the Macrom DSP

What do you think the Navy Input is for? This is what got me started on the volume control.

http://www.macrom.it/download.php?fi...0EXT.A1DSP.pdf


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## prosper (May 12, 2008)

I would suggest to have an 8 channel Speaker Level Terminal Input directly on the chasis of the DSP8-SL

instead of having to buy/connect a BTL adaptor to it.

Just like the upcoming Audison Bit-One DSP.

This is also good for MARKETING too.
Because currently, not so many people outside of Zapco fans know that you can connect Speaker Level Output from HU to DSP6-SL directly by hacking the symbilink cable or by buying the BTL unit.
and in fact in Zapco website, you do not have any information about the BTL unit.

but

if you put 8 channel Speaker Level Input on the chasis of the 
DSP8-SL, people will notice right away that this is not only a DSP,
but also a Factory Integration Device as well.
and this "Factory Integration Device Theme" will have strong marketing value for DSP8-SL.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

heres my take...i own the dcx-730 nice but flakey would love to own the zapco dsp6 to replace it.
three problems for me.
first:i live just outside of philly and the closest dealer is over 2 hours away..thats no good.

second:i dont like the idea of symblinc cables converting to rca's it doesnt make for a clean install in my mind.

third:the price is just over the top..it would be close to 1500$ for the controller the unit and the cables needed...

just my thoughts and reasons why i dont use the zapco unit...im still on the fence but still walking it.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

like said before i am in the heart of the northeast corridor and there isnt a zapco dealer anywhere...how can that be?


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## tankmanbob (Feb 7, 2008)

Has there been much discussion in the past about RCA coax vs. Symbilink?

Seems to me good quality coax is a better medium than twisted shielded pair.


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## prosper (May 12, 2008)

Symbilink is Balanced.

RCA is not Balanced.

All the theory and High End Home Audio application prefer Balanced connection.

In fact,some reason why people buy Zapco because it have Symbilink, and design with balance connection in the first place.

and it is not simply a twisted shielded pair.
it use two conductor carrying mirrorying image audio signal but out of phase with each other.
and one ground cable.lot of article on web site that can better explain what a balance connection is, then what 
I type above.


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## prosper (May 12, 2008)

jel847 said:


> heres my take...i own the dcx-730 nice but flakey would love to own the zapco dsp6 to replace it.
> three problems for me.
> first:i live just outside of philly and the closest dealer is over 2 hours away..thats no good.
> 
> ...


If there is a dealer near you, but the price still at $1500, 
would you still buy it?

Perhaps that explain why there are no dealer near that area.Cause Zapco is in higher end more expensive market segment, the dealer in that area does not have enough people who want to buy amplifier in Zapco price range.

anyway, I always prefer Zapco to be a more exclusive and state of the art high end brand, then diluting their brand value and go after lower mass product market.

Imagine if Ferarri suddenly produce new car in the Corvette ZO6 price range.
I bet most of Ferrari loyal customer would not be happy 

as they say: Money Never Lie, and you get what you pay for.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Robert,

So is the DSP8-SL a for sure thing now? The last I heard it was just a thought that might come to fruition. Is there even a rough release date? I would personally LOVE to see it hit the market. Thanks for the info.

Zach


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## Robert_R (Jun 18, 2007)

Its not a myth, we are working on it. About the release date........I really don't like giving them because to be honest they are never correct.


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## jel847 (Nov 8, 2007)

prosper said:


> If there is a dealer near you, but the price still at $1500,
> would you still buy it?
> 
> Perhaps that explain why there are no dealer near that area.Cause Zapco is in higher end more expensive market segment, the dealer in that area does not have enough people who want to buy amplifier in Zapco price range.
> ...



yeah im considering buying it but at that pice no way with no dealer support!

there are plenty of high end audio shops in the area just none selling zapco..

last time i checked they do offer a lower price mass market amp...


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Its not a myth, we are working on it. About the release date........I really don't like giving them because to be honest they are never correct.


Robert, thank you for the honest answer. I can repsect that you don't want to give out a release date yet. I know how aggrivating it is to have a release/completion date and then have to keep sliding it "to the left" due to something coming up.

Zach


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## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

prosper said:


> If there is a dealer near you, but the price still at $1500,
> would you still buy it?
> 
> Perhaps that explain why there are no dealer near that area.Cause Zapco is in higher end more expensive market segment, the dealer in that area does not have enough people who want to buy amplifier in Zapco price range.
> ...


Yeah, because the NE is the straight up the ghetto of america and there is no money there!


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

Bump Any updates?


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Funny, I was just talking to another forum member about the DSP8 yesterday. I really would like to see this come to the market soon. I'm left with a very uneasy feeling about the BitOne after all of the initial bugs with it. I know they are all supposed to be sorted out now, but that's a lot to risk IMHO.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

I think it might be out by early next year possibly but Robert will have to chime for a possible date or year that it might come to market.

I am also waiting for it to come to market. I would rather wait vs. it being rushed to market.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I couldn't agree more. I'll gladly wait for it to come out once it's right instead of rushing it to market and having a lot of things wrong with it.


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

Well I do not mind waiting either as long as it comes out. So I can run a 3 way front stage plus sub. Using a digital connection that is.


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

Anything new?


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## Fixtion (Aug 25, 2006)

include blue tooth on both the DC reference line and DSP8 to eliminate wires and expand installation options for laptop users.

nix the drc-sl and opt for bluetooth.


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## SCtud (Oct 16, 2009)

is this bad boy getting closer to fruition? seems like there is a lot of demand for it!


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## Shazzz (Feb 2, 2010)

Just talked to Robert yesterday. He said they are getting close, sometime this year. Don't hold ur breath there's still a couple days left in this year lol


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## SCtud (Oct 16, 2009)

this might lose a lot of customers if the Motus Lab processor turns out to perform well


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## ulmpharmd (Nov 30, 2008)

Thinking about trying this Motus AGW+ out on my Porsche Cayman....let you know how it turns out.


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## SCtud (Oct 16, 2009)

Shazzz said:


> Just talked to Robert yesterday. He said they are getting close, sometime this year. Don't hold ur breath there's still a couple days left in this year lol


Any chance this device comes out at all? Not 100% satisfied with the Motus Lab so far and based on their lack of e-mail response, it doesn't look like any of the issues will be resolved.


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## Shazzz (Feb 2, 2010)

SCtud said:


> Any chance this device comes out at all? Not 100% satisfied with the Motus Lab so far and based on their lack of e-mail response, it doesn't look like any of the issues will be resolved.


GREAT NEWS !!!!! I just spoke with Robert at Zapco and he said they just received the new DSP-8 and will start testing it next week and if all goes well the unit will hit the market sometime in January. HOOORAAYYYYY!!!! 

Lets just hope that we don't see an MS-8 scenario


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

What is an MS-8 scenario?


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## tornaido_3927 (Nov 23, 2009)

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! I already bought a DSP6 and a DC amp!! DAMMIT!

The MS-8 scenario was waiting like 4 years for the release of a product that had been confirmed for production.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Hmmm, nice DSP8. If true I'm in for one. I just love parametric EQ's


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## MaXaZoR (Apr 1, 2007)

That's odd because I mentioned this to Robert in my conversations with him earlier this month and it was "still in planning" stages but nothing new with time frames or development. Unless I hear it from the horses mouth, I'll take the Jan release time frame as a grain of salt. Also wish these makers would do a 10 or 12 channel DSP, a lot of people are running 3 ways front, subs, and center or rears now. 8 channels just doesn't cut it anymore


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

MaXaZoR said:


> * Also wish these makers would do a 10 or 12 channel DSP, a lot of people are running 3 ways front, subs, and center or rears now. 8 channels just doesn't cut it anymore *




Amen to that! And I thought I was the only person who saw the need.







.


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## Robert_R (Jun 18, 2007)

Shazzz said:


> Just talked to Robert yesterday. He said they are getting close, sometime this year. Don't hold ur breath there's still a couple days left in this year lol


No you talked to Bob.....

The first sample should be here by next week. We have gotten sample software to evaluate and that is what we have been looking at for a few weeks now. As far as a release date in January.......not likely at all. Like I said in my previous post on this subject I dont like giving release dates. It will be out when it is ready. Sorry I cant give out more information than that.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

MaXaZoR said:


> That's odd because I mentioned this to Robert in my conversations with him earlier this month and it was "still in planning" stages but nothing new with time frames or development. Unless I hear it from the horses mouth, I'll take the Jan release time frame as a grain of salt. Also wish these makers would do a 10 or 12 channel DSP, a lot of people are running 3 ways front, subs, and center or rears now. 8 channels just doesn't cut it anymore


Grab your sac, man up and strap a pair of DSP6s.


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## tornaido_3927 (Nov 23, 2009)

Sample software? Will it be the same software/interface as the other DPN items but just with extra channels, or a different beast?


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## Robert_R (Jun 18, 2007)

tornaido_3927 said:


> Sample software? Will it be the same software/interface as the other DPN items but just with extra channels, or a different beast?


We are trying to incorporate all the changes that have been brought ot our attention over the years with the DSP interface. So it will be a complete new look, new features......new beast. Some similarities to the current software so we dont confuse current users.


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## Ludemandan (Jul 13, 2005)

This is awesome, I didn't see this thread before. I would love to have a DSP-8 and add a couple of channels to my currently available 6. 

What I would like to see is 30 ms of delay on at least one pair of channels so I can play with Haas effect.


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## SCtud (Oct 16, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> No you talked to Bob.....
> 
> The first sample should be here by next week. We have gotten sample software to evaluate and that is what we have been looking at for a few weeks now. As far as a release date in January.......not likely at all. Like I said in my previous post on this subject I dont like giving release dates. It will be out when it is ready. Sorry I cant give out more information than that.


Thanks for chiming in!


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## tornaido_3927 (Nov 23, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> We are trying to incorporate all the changes that have been brought ot our attention over the years with the DSP interface. So it will be a complete new look, new features......new beast. Some similarities to the current software so we dont confuse current users.


Sounds great Robert, thanks for the info.. Would I be right in assuming the new software will also become available for the rest of the DC line via firmware updates, or will it just be the DSP8 so far?


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

bump for the question above


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> We are trying to incorporate all the changes that have been brought ot our attention over the years with the DSP interface. So it will be a complete new look, new features......new beast. Some similarities to the current software so we dont confuse current users.


I'd personally welcome this product. I love the p-eq capabilties of the zapco software. never ran the dsp6 simply because there weren't enough channels. 

now, imagine running this and the bitone. dsp overkill!


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

I would get one to hook it up behind my MS8


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## SCtud (Oct 16, 2009)

i need this!!!!  the motus lab agw+ is not stable in my car and i need a processor that accepts balanced outputs! can you give us some insight that this is not vaporware and will be released sometime in 2011 even if it's 3rd of 4th quarter?


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## oca123 (Aug 16, 2010)

just going back and reading the whole thread. I know it is probably too late, but about the ability for users to make our own GUIs and add features... the CPU/memory footprint of a small web server is very small in comparison to what's available even in $20 chips... wouldn't a web-based service or API be possible? With that, anyone could create an interface for the DSP, and you could even open up FTP or similar to allow for someone to upload that interface. Or better yet, you keep whatever protocol you are using but build a small application that acts as a small web server and runs on Windows. It would take API calls via HTTP and convert them into Zapco commands for the DSP.
Can we have another bone? Maybe a screenshot? Are there going to be microphones involved anywhere?


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## southpawskater (Feb 17, 2010)

Why not just build a double din touch screen H/U with 8 channel simbilink outs, DSP, auto T/A, and have all of the controls at your fingertips at all times? Basically a touch screen DEX-P99RS with simbilink outputs. That would be amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ludemandan (Jul 13, 2005)

southpawskater said:


> Why not just build a double din touch screen H/U with 8 channel simbilink outs, DSP, auto T/A, and have all of the controls at your fingertips at all times? Basically a touch screen DEX-P99RS with simbilink outputs. That would be amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!


A Zapco head unit with 8 preouts would be a no-brainer. Please no touch screen though.


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## tornaido_3927 (Nov 23, 2009)

Yeah please no touch screen, and no double din.. I hate double dins! My car even has a factory double din slot but I refuse to run one.. I don't know if all that could fit in a single din slot, but try!  haha ..Everything else you said though, hells frigging yeah!


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## southpawskater (Feb 17, 2010)

Just thinking it would be way easier to set and adjust everything with a touch screen. But either way I’d still trade my kidney for a Zapco deck with all afore mentioned features! Just FYI Robert if you ever decide to put one together I have a well used kidney to throw down on it!:laugh:


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

Robert and Bob are no longer with Zapco. Not sure what the next step is going to be.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

^ I saw that... interesting...


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

AcuraTLSQ said:


> Robert and Bob are no longer with Zapco. Not sure what the next step is going to be.


What happened?


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## Shazzz (Feb 2, 2010)

Aaron won't say anything. Is this the beginning of the end of Zapco? The saddest day of my 30 + years in the industry. Ok now that my mourning is over I got dibs on the DSP8 Proto


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## tornaido_3927 (Nov 23, 2009)

Whoa how did you hear of this?!


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

From Robert.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

tornaido_3927 said:


> Whoa how did you hear of this?!


uh bc he's Kirk Profitt....He's a Profit!!! he knows all!...oh and he's a key member of Team Zapco


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

AcuraTLSQ said:


> Robert and Bob are no longer with Zapco. Not sure what the next step is going to be.



Did Mr Zeff decided to take back his company?





.


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## tornaido_3927 (Nov 23, 2009)

Mic10is said:


> uh bc he's Kirk Profitt....He's a Profit!!! he knows all!...oh and he's a key member of Team Zapco


Oh, right.. Haha I had no idea, how silly of me :blush:


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

That's horrible to hear that there no longer there I always called them for tech support no one knew anything more then them.


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## Robert_R (Jun 18, 2007)

Hey Guys, 

Sorry to let you down about the DSP8. Hopefully they move forward with the product but at this point I am not sure what will happen with it.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Robert_R said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Sorry to let you down about the DSP8. Hopefully they move forward with the product but at this point I am not sure what will happen with it.


Don't know what your plans are but I wish you all the best for the coming year... 

Kelvin


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## southpawskater (Feb 17, 2010)

^ I sencond that, Robert you have been great to deal with and I wish you all of the best.


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## Shazzz (Feb 2, 2010)

Robert I'm saddened to see you go. You have always been very helpful and more than willing to offer you feedback and support and we will all miss you. Whatever your future endeavors are I wish you all the best.


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## Robert_R (Jun 18, 2007)

Thanks Guys for the kind words.


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## jayhawkblk (May 29, 2007)

I guess I am late on the news but thanks for your support Robert. God bless and good luck in the future.

Marquies


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## DanMan (Jul 18, 2008)

After hearing this news, I no longer am so proud to be using Zapco amps.

In my little world, Robert was Zapco. I can only guess what is going on, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is the turning point from when Zapco were good amps. 

What the hell do I know.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

DanMan said:


> After hearing this news, I no longer am so proud to be using Zapco amps.
> 
> In my little world, Robert was Zapco. I can only guess what is going on, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is the turning point from when Zapco were good amps.
> 
> What the hell do I know.


Keep the amp and never sell those. Gonna be like the PPI Art legacy. 

Kelvin


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## DanMan (Jul 18, 2008)

Yeah, man. I really love my DC amps.

It is just such a sad state of affairs. I don't mind paying a premium if I know I am supporting a company that takes care of me the way I assume they are taking care of their people. If they stop taking care of their people I can assume they will stop caring about their customers.

/rant.


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## bose301s (Dec 8, 2008)

Damn, sad news to hear, I think Zapco is probably not too long for this world anymore, they haven't done much of anything in awhile and while I loved my DSP6 and was looking to trade for one I think that this news now pushes me towards teh Bit1 or trying the Behringer DCX2496 or the MiniDSP in my car.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

DanMan said:


> Yeah, man. I really love my DC amps.
> 
> It is just such a sad state of affairs. I don't mind paying a premium if I know I am supporting a company that takes care of me the way I assume they are taking care of their people. If they stop taking care of their people I can assume they will stop caring about their customers.
> 
> /rant.


Understood and I can feel your pain. However think of it this way (hypothetically ) A company has 30 employees and the single owner cans 2 or 3 of them, does this make the remainder bad people or just people that love their job and want to stay on board ? Just a thought ..


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

bose301s said:


> Damn, sad news to hear, I think Zapco is probably not too long for this world anymore, they haven't done much of anything in awhile and while I loved my DSP6 and was looking to trade for one I think that this news now pushes me towards teh Bit1 or trying the Behringer DCX2496 or the MiniDSP in my car.


See this is the problem with rumors, it makes people start to look a different direction with no substance attached to the rumor. It's a shame, but I suppose that is the way it will always work.

As for not do anything in awhile ... they came out with the Studio X line last year. While perhaps not so appealing to the majority of members here, they made quite a splash within their dealer network. Not everything is always on the cover, sometimes you have to flip through a few pages.


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