# Mid bass impact, how to get more of it?



## veleno

I've got ES mini horns under the dash and 6nd430 in the lower doors (deadened) with each getting 150w. Gains are down low on the mmats hifi-6150d. HU is 80prs.

I can turn the HU up to 45 and the system gets really loud and clear. Same thing if I go closer to max at 65 I think. No clipping or distortion.

While mid bass impact varies from song to song is there a way for it to be a little more "hit you in the chest" kinda feeling?

Do I need to get a bigger speaker, 8" perhaps? Bridge the mids to get 250w? Turn the gain higher? Just trying to think what else I can do.

I keep playing "sweet child of mine" and "november rain" and I want the front stage impact to be stronger, if that makes sense.

Any help or suggestion is appreciated.


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## TRUTHhz

Any rta measurements? Subs? Crossover points?


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## gijoe

Most people's midbass problems aren't caused by the lack of midbass, they are caused by the sub and midbass interaction, especially around the crossover point. The sub should do the heavy lifting, and the midbass will reinforce the sub. They all need to be in time aligned, in phase, and the crossovers and EQ need to be set to result in a smooth transition through the crossover point. 

To mirror Thruth's question, do you have any RTA measurments? That will help a ton in seeing what the actual problem is.


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## dumdum

The impact in your chest comes from 60-80hz generally, you need your sub playing that or the midbass doing a very good job of it, yes a pair of 8” will help somewhat but aren’t a must

I would get it put on smaart or similar to check the phase is correct as if it’s 60 degrees Or more out it’s costing you output or you can play the left/right midbass individually and see if they sum well with the subs using an rta, Nick did a video just lately showing this

but actual phase measurement doing live adjustments is the best way to do it overall as it’s possible to get summation through a crossover but the phase be incorrect further up/down the range from the crossover point (If you have a 48v mic and preamp you can download a trial of smaart which will show with good accuracy any phase issues in the area and enable you to set time alignment with way more accuracy than a tape measure 👍🏼


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## veleno

No rta measurements, but I should take it to the shop to do it.
Sub is a single JL 13tw5v2 (2ohm) in a sealed box. It's bridged at the amp and gets 550rms.
Crossover points I are horns at 1600hz, mids at 80hz to 1600hz (have to double check), sub at 80hz. All at 12db. I tried them all at 24db but I liked how it sounded at 12db so I left it there.

The eq and ta settings are all done by the HU (autotune). However, I did adjust the ta settings by measuring the speaker distance with a tape measure, then putting those measurements into the tracerite.com website and used the recommended settings on the ta2 setting on the hu.


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## gijoe

veleno said:


> No rta measurements, but I should take it to the shop to do it.
> Sub is a single JL 13tw5v2 (2ohm) in a sealed box. It's bridged at the amp and gets 550rms.
> Crossover points I are horns at 1600hz, mids at 80hz to 1600hz (have to double check), sub at 80hz. All at 12db. I tried them all at 24db but I liked how it sounded at 12db so I left it there.
> 
> The eq and ta settings are all done by the HU (autotune). However, I did adjust the ta settings by measuring the speaker distance with a tape measure, then putting those measurements into the tracerite.com website and used the recommended settings on the ta2 setting on the hu.


If you're using 12dB crossovers, you'll want to flip the phase on the sub. Try that, and see if it helps at all. It may not make a huge difference, but it might be enough. A 12dB crossover causes a 180 degree phase shift. 

The response you're looking for can take a decent amount of tuning to get right, even with excellent bass, and midbass speakers. The interaction between the 2 is really important for having upfront bass, dynamic and realistic impact.


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## veleno

gijoe said:


> If you're using 12dB crossovers, you'll want to flip the phase on the sub. Try that, and see if it helps at all. It may not make a huge difference, but it might be enough. A 12dB crossover causes a 180 degree phase shift.
> 
> The response you're looking for can take a decent amount of tuning to get right, even with excellent bass, and midbass speakers. The interaction between the 2 is really important for having upfront bass, dynamic and realistic impact.


I'll try that and see how it sounds.
Do you recommend I set the crossovers to 24db?


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## krisfnbz

Wont have any midbass issues with these bad boys!

*M6+ - CDT Audio 6.5" 240 Watt Mid-Bass/Sub-Bass Drivers*


Amazon.com


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## Blu

I don't know that I'd want to pair a speaker with a sensitivity rating of 83.8 dB with a pair of horns though...


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## Niebur3

krisfnbz said:


> Wont have any midbass issues with these bad boys!
> 
> *M6+ - CDT Audio 6.5" 240 Watt Mid-Bass/Sub-Bass Drivers*
> 
> 
> Amazon.com


You obviously didn't read above that it is a tuning issue between the midbass/sub and that can't be fixed no matter what midbass you put in.


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## ErinH

As others have said, tuning is key here. Not necessarily driver size. Watch this video. It explains the typical issues faced in midbass.


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## veleno

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
Great video Erin. It makes a lot of sense.
I'm hoping to get to an rta this week to get some measurements and hopefully improve the overall sound.


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## Eric Stevens

Larger drivers and more power will increase output potential but you should have enough already. I agree with all above its a tunign issue. You dont need an expensive test setup to be able to get meaningful measurements, you could use a phone based set up.

I suggest 24dB/oct, I would attempt to get it all sounding right set at 24. 

Simple thing to try as mentioned is to reverse phase on the sub, alternately your delay on the subwoofer is mostly affecting the sound by changing the phase. I suggest starting with a measurement based setting and then adjusting for the best response and/or sound performance. With pink noise playing you will see the response change in the area around the crossover as you increase the delay time, set if for the highest output at 80 hz your crossover point. Listen and tweak from there.


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## veleno

So I adjusted the eq and changed the crossover to 24db and it sounds a whole lot better. I'm getting more impact up front which is what I wanted. I still have to play around with the eq to get it better but for a short tune its great! Still hoping to get to the rta by saturday!


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