# C608GTI MKII Review!!!



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

*JBL C608GTI MKII Review!!!*

Ok, I should have taken pics of the components prior to installing them so you can see them. I am pretty sure they are common enough to get pics online though. Check sonicelectronix.com they always have great pics! I recently sold my Oz audio 3way set that I was very please with but realized that with my limited location availability and lack of a processor I decided to simplify a little with a two way setup. Now I had owned the original jbl gti608 (non mkII) but really never tried them out. I paid $180 locally and turned around and sold them for a bit more (no not on here!) 

I have read so many reviews that say oh these things have great low end but no midrange, or the tweeters are super bright, etc.......I will tell you for a fact that the only true part of all of that is that the midbass will rock your world!!! I will get to the details in a few moments. 
I bought these because I get JBL direct from the company for great deals because of a comp I have through a music writing association. I have always loved JBL and thought I would unload the majority of the gear I own and start over with more of a budget and simplified mindset. I also had the absolutely perfect midrange in mind to go with this set should I feel it neccessary later on. (a/d/s 344is midrange would be absolutely a perfect match with this set, for the record) However the minute I hooked up this set via the passives bridged to my soundstream ref 4.920 (450watts a side I soon realized that a 3way setup would not be needed! Also I should add this set is in my 04 dodge ram quad cab with the mids in the doors with extremely deadend doors and very rigid birch baffles. The tweeters are in the A-pillars completely off axis (VERY IMPORTANT!!!) the rest of the system consists of a nakamichi sp-w1200d sub powered by a new nakamichi PA-1500 (absolutely awesome amp!!!) all run off my ddx8120 For my testing all processing features were off and the eq was flat. I had the xover at 60/60 for high and low. 

Ok, now about the sound.... I would say that the midrange was almost impecable right off the bat. The midbass has incredible attack and the ability to handle almost anything with 0 effort at all. I would say this set can blend with any sub on the planet because you can pound the crap out of them with no issues at all even with insane amounts of power and volume. The deal with the tweeter is this........Its not bright or harsh, its just insanely detailed. It is very important that these are installed off axis (think mb quarts) I would say they run a little hot, and by hot I dont mean they are hash, raspy, bright, tinny, etc......What I am refering to is that perhaps they are getting a little to much of the juice being devided out in the passives. Again the eq is flat and I could leave it that way and be happy but am sure with slight tinkering with my miniscule 13band eq these would be spotless!
The stage height and imaging were suprisingly great, again right out of the box. I am also certain the slightest touch of my decks T/A and were spot on, but again I could live happy with it as is. I am struggling for something bad to say about them and I can only come up with this....Trying to pry the cover off the xovers to connect the wires is a pretty crappy experience, you have to force them way to much and will be afraid of breaking them. Also the terminals are pretty hard to get raw wire into, you really need to use spades to keep from throwing them out the vehicle in anger! If these were bi-ampable you could really have one great passive setup. I also was a little worried with the high xover point (3200 or 3500, I forget) being that the tweeters would be so high up on the dash, it tends to work out great with low xover points because more of the sound is on the dash......because.......well, there on the dash! 

I have tried to really stump these and give me a reason to say well they were cheap and thats what you get type of thing....(my discount they are pretty inexpensive) but everything from rat pack, nora jones, poison, dave mathews, various country, even some warren G (I had to see what my sub was capable of with more power then its ever had, ummmm it was friggin sweet!) The fact is that these components (at any $) are probably my favorite set of two way and maybe even 3way I have auditioned in my truck. You name it and I have probably broken down and thrown them in. From ultra cheap to extremely expensive.....Kicker ss, rs (awesome sleeper set that is very similar to the old quart q's) QS, Prs 720 set (so f'ing over rated its sickning, my opinion of course) boston pro, z6, focal k2p, quart qsd, dynaudio, morel elates, oz audio matrix elite, helix, Image dynamics, Alpine F1, the list is just shamefully long!! Out of the box, loud, clean, power handling all around performers price aside these are my favorites. For anyone that is looking for a great set do not look any further, your not going to find anything better in the price range these can be had for. Everything is built like a tank, the get louder and stay together like no other two way or three way set I have ever experienced! Upon reading other reviews of these components as well as others I have toyed with I cant help but get the feeling that people just pass on what they think something will sound like based on looks or #s of a product and pass it along as fact. If you found the tweeters bright or harsh or there was a lack of midrange.......You need to stop attempting to install and see a professional or get your ears checked. I am totally blown away with these and I dont say that about a whole lot in this disease that so many of us like to call a hobbie. I also tend to like a little less tweeter then most and still find these more then acceptable. I am excited to try a little processing and eq'ing from the deck to see what else I can do. In order to be fair I left everything as if you were putting it in a generic setup (except for the 450 a side, which they almost laugh at, but love for sure!)

Enjoy! Take a chance on them, you wont regret it! just make sure its setup right!


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## Izay123 (Jun 9, 2009)

Good review. 

How would you compare them to Boston PROSE and SPZ sets???


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## tulse (Mar 16, 2010)

Now that's a review. Want to sell me a set. 

I'd like here more about where and how you have your tweeters mounted.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Thats kinda tough for me, I found the comparison to the prose's ability to be as lively as the music was produced, as well as they can get loud are similar characteristics. I would compare the z6's tonal characteristics (midrange) But not sure either have the capabilities of handling anywhere near the power, and by handle I mean the more you give them the more they give back! They z6/spz60 can take some legit power but they just dont get anywhere near as loud. I really like the spz and for the money I think the prose are also great sets. I think the spzs and z6's are pretty laid back and although I do like that sound, there is something to be said for the unreal clarity and realism to the jbl's. I also find the bostons to be great for almost any possible installation, there kinda idiot proof and super user friendly. Not that the jbl's arent, but I have not really done to much with them other then passives in, and everything else in pretty common locations. After having owned the z6s and prose's and the gti's......if all 3 were in the same $ bracket I would still take the gti's. I wish I could take the Gti's and the spz xovers though. Biamp with some of the settings you can fiddle with go a long way on those sets! My favorite two way passives!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

tulse said:


> Now that's a review. Want to sell me a set.
> 
> I'd like here more about where and how you have your tweeters mounted.


Thanks, 
I will take some pics, but basicaly they are in the lower/mid portion of my apillars pretty much facing each other (slightly upward).
After my price then shipping them to you it would be pretty much the same as ebay/online prices. There was someone on here selling a new set for $250.00, not sure if they are still available or not?


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## roxj01 (Nov 22, 2009)

excellent review! i found a used set of these locally for a fair price and was contemplating getting them for the wifes car but i am also looking for a set of the ppi 355/356cs to use. have you used the ppi's, and if so how would you compare the two?

thanks,

trey


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

i have used the a/d/s/ components several times, various years and models, i assume they are like the last ads series.....cs I beleive. i like that set very much, i am a big fan of the xovers and ability to bi-amp if chosen. the two sets would be very hard to compare. they (jbl) are far more capable in the low end section and louder. like many sets on the market they are fantastic for the $. if you dont have a lot of power for the jbl then i would go ppi. if you can bridge a 4 channel and get a few hundred watts to them then i would take the jbl all day. they are VERY beefy so plan accordingly!


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## roxj01 (Nov 22, 2009)

well, i couldnt pass up the deal on the jbl's so i went ahead and got them. now i need to find a solid 3 or 5 channel budget type amp to power them and an 8 inch sub with.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I have a pair of jbl gto1004 4channel amps for sale real cheap. They would be perfect....one amp bridged to the components and the other for the sub. Or run it in 3channel mode to the components and bridged for the sub?


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

hahaha just got your pm.....timing!!


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

is this the same model I was asking about last week as far as performance? I think it is...


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

JAX said:


> is this the same model I was asking about last week as far as performance? I think it is...


asking who or where? not sure


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> asking who or where? not sure


I had a post in the comparison forum


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Sorry Jax, I just searched for your comparison....yes they are the same ones. HIGHLY RECOMEND THEM especially for $200.00 and way over the prs....If you are going to be using the passives I would stick with the jbl's definitely. I thought the tweeter was almost completely untameable on the pioneer set in almost every configuration. To be fair I never tried them active.....nor have I tried the jbl's active...................... yet 
Although as of now I really have 0 reason to. I cant think of anything that I really need to change?


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## ragincajun (Jan 8, 2010)

Excellent write up!!! You should be in sales because I almost purchased a set of these today with posting any questions! The last thing I was going to buy for my build was midrange because of all the choices! 

My current set-up is kenwood DNX-9140, Sundown 1500D, Two Sundown SA-8 in ported enclosure with Raamat deadner through out. Vehicle is a 08 GMC Sierra Crew cab. With this being said I am pleased to read your review on the jbl. I heard a set of their outdoor speakers and was amazed by the quality. Ever since then I was leaning towards them. However, I am still considering either the Morel Tempo's or the HAT Clarus. Have you had experience with these brands? 

Also I already purchased a Sundown audio 50.4 which is 160x2 watts bridged @ 4 ohms. Would you suggest getting something more powerful? I read your comments about your ss 4.920 and am strongly considering purchasing one also. I have always been a fan of soundstream and owned a old rubicon but was scared to try them again since I had heard their quality went downhill. However I read a few thread about the new human reign and it sounds like they are turning things around. My other choice would be the Sundown 100.4 which is 320x2 @ 4 ohms.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words....I own my own company so I guess I am somewhat of a salesman. You have to be to survive I suppose. Now to your questions......

I have tons of experience with morel over the many years and have 0 negative to say about them. I love how they also can seem to accept endless amounts of power and give you a great deal of impact with it. I would have to say that in order to compare morel to the GTI's you would have to spend a hell of a lot more $ to equal similar out of the box results (elates) and your still not going to get the same midbass attack/authority.

I do not have any first hand experience with the clarus but I would assume it is a similar comparison to the morels, your probably going to have to step up in the price range to equal similar performance. Now here is my take on speakers (pretty much all audio, and its not everyones opinion thats for sure, but its what I have come up with over the years) Almost any component set at the higher price points can be made to sound the same, its how you get to that point thats different. What I mean by this, is if you tune a car to an rta and you can get the same line drawn with several components then it should sound the same agreed? Obviously this is really only a reality with dump loads of processing because so many of those sets in similar price range are night and day different as far as out of the box sound, mostly due to different xover points and cone/dome materials. I found that in my particular setup I did not require hardly any eq'ing to acheive satisfactory results. I have the same processing you do (dnx8120) and its pretty good with just that 13band eq. I just have the top end dropped a tad. I am also someone that believes most amps tend to have a signature sound. So it becomes a matching game! I challange anyone to toss in a 4.920 bridged to a set then throw in a jbl gto1004 and tell me there is no difference (power asside). The difference between the two was disturbing! You could go much louder with 0 clipping/distortion, the jbl could not get anywhere near what the ss could do. We are only talking about 75watts difference here to! It was much more impactful, detailed, and controlled, the jbl was opposite! I have since purchased two of my favorite amps of all time to run the sets because I find them to have a very mellow but still impactful sound to them (nakamichi pa-2002) I am getting 400+ to each side with each amp bridged per side, hind sight......should have kept or bought a new ss 4.920! No disrespect to the naks....just different. 

Ok enough about my foolish beliefs! I think the power you have available is sufficient but mo' power mo' better I love the choice of subs and amp as well as the deck, I also think the gti's would blend well with that setup. Should be pretty dynamic. 

Now the set is only as good as the placement of everything. It is very lively and detailed, I tend to go for setups (out of the box) like morel because of the naturally laid back sound, but also love the ability to roll down the windows and crank it beyond what you should probably be listening too! Volume and clarity at high volume is just one of the things that seperates this set from SO many others. Out of the box, its one of the most detailed, clear, and powerful set I have owned at any price point. I have spent more on just midbass and got less in return the what I spent on this set. It would be worth the purchase just for the midbass! I also was blown away at the midrange, I cannot believe people say the midrange is not adequate.....It makes me wonder if people actually listen to stuff or just look at a picture and make up stuff as they go along? I would, one day like to try these out active, but have unloaded all processing over the last year or so. But on the same hand....if it aint broke...............! I am not going to tell you to go buy them, but I will say your not going to find a better set at the current going rate PERIOD. 

Also I had the same experience with there exterior speakers (pretty much everything they make) I was at a wedding and they had these medium sized towers outside and were playing a random mix of music prior to the start and I was dumbfounded at the quality of sound. I have a jbl accomodation so I do tend to by a lot from them because its just flat out affordable to me but I have yet to be dissapointed. (for the record the jbl gto amps were very good for the short $ but could not hold a candle to the ss ref, but the difference in $ is also quite large) I hope this helps, feel free to ask me anything about them, and in case you didnt notice....I am always willing to share my opinion (wanted or not I'm afraid)


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Thanks for your review! I sure do hope to hear this set at our New England meet


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Thanks man! I hope to be able to make it. Work has been psycho as well as at home with the baby so it will be a game time decision as to whether I will be able to make it. I hope to make it, I would like to meet up with everyone.


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

ah the 608gt, I had a set of these.

the midbass snap is kinda dull and midrange is lacking.


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## ragincajun (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks Rexroadj! I guess i'll be looking to off load a Sundown 50.4! A buddy of mine has almost the same set up as me but he has the Kenwood 8120 and his truck is an 06 extended cab. He purchased the Hertz hsk and was running them off the 50.4 but it didn't have nearly enough power. He just purchased the sundown 100.4 and should be getting in soon. So I may wait to see how it pushes his hertz before I decided to get it or the SS. I think I'm just going to go with my first gut instinct and go with the JBl's though.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

mikemareen said:


> ah the 608gt, I had a set of these.
> 
> the midbass snap is kinda dull and midrange is lacking.


I'm going to assume your trying to be a smart ass! Coming from someone with such brilliance as the "1-2 power theory" and the fact that you think oem systems with 15watts provide superior midbass over aftermarket components oke:

also this set is the gti set, not familiar with the 608gt? is that from a ford?


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> I'm going to assume your trying to be a smart ass! Coming from someone with such brilliance as the "1-2 power theory" and the fact that you think oem systems with 15watts provide superior midbass over aftermarket components oke:
> 
> also this set is the gti set, not familiar with the 608gt? is that from a ford?



ha
ha


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

these guys that design these levinson and high end bose systems from mercedes, bmw, audi, lexus all have advanced electronics degree and get paid well over 300K annually. 

what do u have ? who are u to say they are all wrong ? and who are u to say anyone of us here is wrong ?

get a life man don't lose sleep over it :thumbsdown:oke:





rexroadj said:


> I'm going to assume your trying to be a smart ass! Coming from someone with such brilliance as the "1-2 power theory" and the fact that you think oem systems with 15watts provide superior midbass over aftermarket components oke:
> 
> also this set is the gti set, not familiar with the 608gt? is that from a ford?


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

mikemareen said:


> these guys that design these levinson and high end bose systems from mercedes, bmw, audi, lexus all have advanced electronics degree and get paid well over 300K annually.
> 
> what do u have ? who are u to say they are all wrong ? and who are u to say anyone of us here is wrong ?
> 
> get a life man don't lose sleep over it :thumbsdown:oke:


How does getting paid x amount = anything? They are paid for a specific and very very defined project and an open budget is not included. Again you just like the pretty names and you yourself have clearly not done any research on the topic if you have been going around thinking that they run off of 15watts and have 0 deadning! Less talking and more reading *******! Here is the point.....You started off by attempting to make a smart ass comment on MY thread and I can say or do what ever the **** I want to about it to you now, no lack of sleep will be had I assure you! What do I know........ Based on your F'ed up no logic theorys....absolutely nothing. I will still take my nothing background though, and am sure the vast majority on here would too! I never said that some oem systems dont sound great, in fact I have said several times in the past quite the opposite. However the idea that there can be more midbass in any oem setup then a well installed properly tuned aftermarket system is probably the dumbest thing I have heard (until whatever rolls out of your uneducated mouth next) They dont go balls to the wall as we do because they cant afford to, since there would be less then 1% of the auto buyer market that gave a rats ass, and even the bulk of them would probably assume or know it can be done better with after market items. Bottom line is you have 0 clue what the **** your talking about and coming at me like this, about this is about the same thing as going to a knife fight with a q-tip! Go do a lot more reading and learning and then we can have a discussion. Until then go find another forum that can or will deal with your ****!


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

wow somebody sounds really insecure....relax man it's a pointless issue. the industry itself is done so your anger is as worthless as the **** stuck on my boxers.








rexroadj said:


> How does getting paid x amount = anything? They are paid for a specific and very very defined project and an open budget is not included. Again you just like the pretty names and you yourself have clearly not done any research on the topic if you have been going around thinking that they run off of 15watts and have 0 deadning! Less talking and more reading *******! Here is the point.....You started off by attempting to make a smart ass comment on MY thread and I can say or do what ever the **** I want to about it to you now, no lack of sleep will be had I assure you! What do I know........ Based on your F'ed up no logic theorys....absolutely nothing. I will still take my nothing background though, and am sure the vast majority on here would too! I never said that some oem systems dont sound great, in fact I have said several times in the past quite the opposite. However the idea that there can be more midbass in any oem setup then a well installed properly tuned aftermarket system is probably the dumbest thing I have heard (until whatever rolls out of your uneducated mouth next) They dont go balls to the wall as we do because they cant afford to, since there would be less then 1% of the auto buyer market that gave a rats ass, and even the bulk of them would probably assume or know it can be done better with after market items. Bottom line is you have 0 clue what the **** your talking about and coming at me like this, about this is about the same thing as going to a knife fight with a q-tip! Go do a lot more reading and learning and then we can have a discussion. Until then go find another forum that can or will deal with your ****!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

? Right? GFY


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

mikemareen said:


> the industry itself is done so your anger is as worthless as *the **** stuck on my boxers*.


Gay.


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## fahrfrompuken (Apr 24, 2010)

rexroadj,

I was very impressed by the review you wrote on these speakers.  I am currently in the market for 2 pair. Actually, I already bought some just based on price and what they sounded like at Custom Sounds in the sound board. I got the Eclipse SC6900 for the front and the SP6900 for fill.

Now I am really thinking of making my system a real SQ system. My current components I have purchased are:

Pioneer AVIC-X910BT head unit
Eclipse SC6900 Component 6x9s (front)
Eclipse SP6900 Point Source 6x9s (rear)
Eclipse SW8000 10" sub
Phoenix Gold X200.4 four channel amp
Phoenix Gold X600.1 monoblock amp
LPL44 remote bass knob

These are going in a 2007 Toyota Camry SE
This car has 6x9s stock and openings at the extreme corners of the dash near the windshield (this is where I will mount my tweets).

I am really rethinking my choices for speakers. I am considering the:
Alpine Type X PROs
Pioneer TS-C720PRS
JBL C608GTI MKII (of course)

I would like speakers that are above all things accurate, handle mucho power, and be of high quality. If they are a little harsh I can tune them or EQ that out. I just really want them to be loud when I want and them to be and sound excellent at all volume levels. I am considering getting 2 pair of whatever I choose and just running the rears very low for fill only.

Please let me know what you think about my setup so far, thanks.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I will get into this in more depth a little later, I have company over. I like your choices and gear already, lots of great options here. I will get into some more detail tonight or tomorrow though. Thanks 
Justin


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Ok, here is my take on the above speakers you have for choices as well as the power you have on tap......
First off, I cannot recommend enough that you use the 4 channel bridged to what ever component set you so choose. The difference in dynamics, volume and midbass production will be night and day without question. If you MUST use the rears (I personally am not as against it as most if done properly) see if you can use the decks amp for them and figure out a way to level a way your happy with via the amps gain/rear volume. Or just pick up a cheap 2channel for the rears. I have owned the prs set, I have not owned the alpines but have heard them several times....I am actually a big fan of those components despite being somewhat of an alpine hater over the years. I find them to be extremely natural and soothing out of the box. They can handle pretty decent amounts of power and can achieve pretty fair volume (no where near the other two sets in either capacity). I was not overly pleased with the prs set....I found the midbass/midrange to be quite nice and the set to be put together overall VERY nice as far as quality. I could not get the tweeter to an acceptable sound for me, however to be absolutely honest I did not give them a whole lot of listening in various locations. I mounted them low (kicks) which I am not usually a fan of in my truck but needed to do all that I could to tame them. I did not get a chance to run them active, and assume that doing so with that set, would have yielded much better results. I know that they can handle a lot of juice but the tweeters run a little to hot and harsh for me, its almost like they have a ceiling as to how much power gets dispersed between the set and as more power gets to the passives to much goes to the tweets. Obviously this can be tuned but I cant stand things that require so much work out of the box. Again the midbass is outstanding as was as the vocal midrange department of that set. They are tanks! Again, if volume, clarity, extreme power handling (getting what you give) and $ in the mix I dont think there is much that is going to compete with the gti's. If someone offered me each set for free I would still take the jbl's. But please keep in mind, this is nothing more then my opinion, I am sure others will give there take (hopefully only the few that have actual experience with the sets and done properly!!!!). For me I would gauge between the alpines and jbl's. I think you will get more volume at any level with the gti's but with less then 200watts you might get better overall sound with the alpines? I dont know..... Also the location of the tweeter being so off axis (if I am understanding correctly) the jbls might be a great fit too. The alpines off axis that much might dissapear. I dont know buddy, I really dont feel comfortable trying to steer you one way because of the way I feel. It just wouldnt be fair since its just an opinion. But I love mine!!!!


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi Rexroadj...
I just wanted to ask a question.
I am the veeeeery happy owner of a pair of C608Gti MkI and I pretty much agree with all that was said (especially about the plastic covers of the Xovers...damn them!).
Here is my thing:
Used to run a pretty nice setup but badly tuned imho. Focal FP 4.75 to the Gti front doors and Boston RX97 in the hatch deck (I know I know...) of my Golf 4.
Found an old Bose acoustimass 5 (one of the first ever produced I guess) under my bed. Managed to try it in between and got pretty nice results but was definitely needing a tiny amp to run it alone out of my HU.
Went to wander on forums (including and especially THIS forum) and felt i wanted more SQ... result:
I ended buying second hand gear on eBay.
First a Dls A3, then a 50.4 and a 90.2 from Sinfoni and finally went for a 150.2 from the same damn italians that definitely know how to build audio things.
Even though I havent received them yet, I managed to find what I suppose being a never used pair of T595 Limited (aaaaahhhh cant wait!!!). Wont tell the price until I try them to b sure they work... 
I have a H650 from Alpine and my idea was this:
HU to h650
Run the 595 with the 150.2, C608 from the 90.2 and tweeters from half the 50.4, Other half (dual mono the 50.4 is) into the Bose just as a sub fill.
But you said the C608 cant be Bi ampeeeeeeeed yoooooooou!!!! :'-(
Can they? can't I just sweep away (or spade away) those huuuge Xovers?
Thanks in advance and sorry for the novel. Kinda new at this...


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

fahrfrompuken said:


> I am really rethinking my choices for speakers. I am considering the:
> Alpine Type X PROs
> Pioneer TS-C720PRS
> JBL C608GTI MKII (of course)
> ...


The Alpine SPX pro's are very unforgiving in less-than-perfect doors. I have mine hi-passed around 90Hz, any lower and they fart when I crank it up. If the JBL's have more punch and are more forgiving, go for them no doubt. The overall sound is wonderful, don't get me wrong, but they require some work if you want to go deep with them. Love those SPX tweeters though. Out of this world...


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Nemesys66 said:


> Hi Rexroadj...
> I just wanted to ask a question.
> I am the veeeeery happy owner of a pair of C608Gti MkI and I pretty much agree with all that was said (especially about the plastic covers of the Xovers...damn them!).
> Here is my thing:
> ...


Ok first off......AWESOME AMPS! I had the 650 and actually really liked it, I thought the auto eq was pretty adequate at minimum gives a great starting point! I am pretty sure you can run the sub, rears (awesome set by the way, classics!) and the 608 active from the processor. Problem solved! And it should sound great! I will have to look into the processor again since its been a while since I used it (gave it to my brother in law, maybe I will take a peak at it again and play with it to confirm?) Hope this helps, if I missed something just ask me again. I am exauhsted and a little slow to begin with


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

kvndoom said:


> The Alpine SPX pro's are very unforgiving in less-than-perfect doors. I have mine hi-passed around 90Hz, any lower and they fart when I crank it up. If the JBL's have more punch and are more forgiving, go for them no doubt. The overall sound is wonderful, don't get me wrong, but they require some work if you want to go deep with them. Love those SPX tweeters though. Out of this world...


Yes......those tweeters were VERY well done without question. The midbass will not go anywhere near the jbl's as you said, but sound great none the less. I was very impressed with that set every time I heard them.
Thanks for chiming in, I hate to be just giving my opinion on this stuff, its just that.....my opinion.


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## fahrfrompuken (Apr 24, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> I think you will get more volume at any level with the gti's but with less then 200watts you might get better overall sound with the alpines?


As far as power, the Phoenix Gold Xenon amps are underrated. I had the x100.4 before and the actual birthing card that came with it showed it actually measured 462 watts RMS. If I had to guess the x200.4 should be about 923 watts. At least that is what the birthing card that came with one another guy owned said. If I run this amp bridged I should get a true 450 watts plus to each side which is similar to what you are running. The only question at this point is how clean is the power. I think that the Phoenix Gold Xenons are similiar to the Soundstream as far as cleanliness of the signal, though I am not sure of the fidelity. These amps I purchased are new old stock, not some new amps they just made. I feel really fortunate to find these still new in the box.

It is not too late though, I could still sell these on eBay or Craigslist and get the Soundstream 920 like you have and maybe get a 1000W Soundstream Reference to push my sub. How do they do on subs?

Anyway, I think my system could rival yours in power if not in cleanliness of the signal. I am also not too happy with the Bluetooth on my Pioneer and I may switch it out for a Kenwood that has the Parrot Bluetooth.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

No, I think your amp is more then adequate in all cases mentioned. Those are absolutely fantastic amps and the power is great. As much as I love the ss refs. I dont see the point of selling what you have for them, what you have is great. I can safely say that your volume worries will disapear in a hearbeat with that power and that comp set. It seems like you have done your research as best as one can until things are actually in the car. Thats the bulk of the work right there! Just keep us all posted what you end up doing and what your thoughts are on it. Best of luck to you, hope it works out well!


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> Ok first off......AWESOME AMPS! I had the 650 and actually really liked it, I thought the auto eq was pretty adequate at minimum gives a great starting point! I am pretty sure you can run the sub, rears (awesome set by the way, classics!) and the 608 active from the processor. Problem solved! And it should sound great! I will have to look into the processor again since its been a while since I used it (gave it to my brother in law, maybe I will take a peak at it again and play with it to confirm?) Hope this helps, if I missed something just ask me again. I am exauhsted and a little slow to begin with


Hi Rex,
First, thank you for your quick reply... since you said you were having company, I hope you hadn't have to sneak out to reply... 
I had a call from my volks today who received the 595 in France (as I live like 10000 miles from them...) and they seem legit! Had my dad put them on a scale to weight them and play with the cone by the phone...still laughing imagining how he must think how wacked his son is!
They were most likely sleeping in a storage somewhere as they are like new with manual and box. Had a doubt because I found bunch of "brand new" one where i live but they weight like 1 kilo each and are soooooooooo chinese made. So I guess I found myself an Antics/legend with still a couple of good sounding hours in them... 
As for the setup, your review made my day lighter. I was running the c608 in coax configuration but was planning to mount the tweeters in the dash side windows vents, facing upright. If off-axis is the deal, they should be very happy there. The H650 cant deal with non-coax comps on a single channel so I had to go Bi-amp, which wasnt such a heartache... (you gotta love all those Sympho's stacked together... he he he.
My only doubt is about the rear fill/hatch deck... Not very SQ but I will figure a setup that works with the 595. I will surely remove the tweeters and use only the woofers.
Havent decided yet between the 150.2 or the DLS A3 but I guess space will come into discussion as I want some kind of Hybrid Show/stealth install (try to shove 3 dudes + golf bags or suit cases in a golf 4 with all this gear is the idea).
Anyway, will gladly post pics of the making and final result when am done and especially my impressions about the way it sound (am already preparing the playlist to test it all...yummmmy!!!)
Thanks for the patience and support
Merciiii!!!!
I am pretty excited about the whole thing


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

No need for a thanks.....I just hope it works out well for you.... Keep us posted!


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## SafariLS1 (May 2, 2010)

rexroadj thanks for the review! im looking into getting a set. i was wondering if you knew the ohm ratings of each driver because i am going to be running them active. Thanks in advance!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I will double check but I am pretty sure they are all 4ohm but I will look into it to confirm


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I looked and am almost certain they are 4ohms. I am not sure what it matters if your running active. I know there not 2ohms so it should be an issue for your amps?


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> I will double check but I am pretty sure they are all 4ohm but I will look into it to confirm


Indeed 4 Ohms...


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Nemesys66 said:


> Indeed 4 Ohms...


Thank you for confirming!


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

what is the difference between the first gti's and the mkII? set? I cant find any info anywhere between the two and the differences.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Not sure?


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

still enjoying the gti's? have you tried these with less power at all? what are your opinions on say 100watts per side or 100watts to mid and 60 to tweet active?


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I think it would still be extremely loud. I first had them running via the passives on about 145ish and they were still fantastic. You will get more from them active at that power then I did passive. I will respond to your pm now as well.


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## redcalimp5 (Sep 10, 2007)

Hey rex, how much power you giving to these mids running active? What crossover points seem to work best with them with rock/metal?


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Sorry man, I have not run them active. No means right now to do so, really dont have a need either. But I am running 400+ per side with the passives...... They laugh at me


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

Is it a ha ha laugh or more like a tee hee laugh? Lol


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

definitely the family guy midget in the well Tee Hee laugh!!!!


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

Lmao thats funny


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## electroman187 (Oct 21, 2009)

If I keep seeing this thread, I'm going to have to make the 20 minute drive from Manchester to hear these buggers!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

A local!!!!! awesome! I used to live in manchester a couple years ago. I can tell you it aint pretty, and it aint perfect (like my grammar) but for a simple drop in set with little to no eq I think they are pretty damn impressive!


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## red03vette (Sep 3, 2007)

Rexroadj, what kind of tweeter mounting options do they give ya? can they be mounted coaxial? 

thanks duce


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Just flush and surface mounts but they are very flexible and can be positioned in unlimited angles. No coax unfortunately, they look like they could but they dont.


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## red03vette (Sep 3, 2007)

judging by your review you have heard (and owned) alot of nice sets that you compared these to. have you heard the hertz mlk165's? and if so how do they compare to the JBL's? currently i own and run a set of kicker ss56.2's and i am not super thrilled with them. the JBL's look like they might fit the bill for me provided i can get them at a cost i can afford. 

thanks duce


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Yeah I have certainly run the mill when it comes to amps, subs and speakers over the years......I suppose I have gone through a good many decks as well.....its been fun and a great learning experience to play with all that stuff. I really enjoyed it, I am not as into the testing as I used to be. I have to admit.....I really actually liked the ss component sets as well as the new rs and qs sets. I found the ss to be great for acoustic material as well as detailed vocalists. They were a tad querky in the tuning department but all in all I enjoyed them. Of the three you mention..... the jbl, kicker, and the hertz, I would say you have three different animals there. Hertz without question is fantastic stuff. The MLK's are awesome. Very neutral and detailed and I suppose revealing is a good term to use with them. I would say that with higher power you would get less return from them vs. the jbl or kicker. I also found the tweeter to break up a little easy. Keep in mind I power the hell out of my stuff so it might be just due to the severe punishment they were taking from me. That might be one of the reasons why I love the JBL's. 400+ a side all day long and the pretty much laugh at me. the kicker would not be able to do the same as well but can get insanely loud and run with a hearty 200+ (pretty sure they run at 3ohms anyway) If your a heavy midbass guy then none of them will be able to hold the jock of the Jbl's. Top end and midrange is also tough....I love the top end and midrange of the jbls and the hertz but again depending on power/volume the hertz just wont keep up. If your looking mainly at 100watts or so up to 200 then the hertz might be the way to go, also assuming your sub can take over pretty high (say 100-150ish) I dont know, I hate getting caught up in these types of comparisons since there are so many awesome sets out there depending on price and use. Sorry I am not of to much help here. Best suggestion is to read as much as possible and get out and hopefully demo them all.
keep me posted as to what you choose and how you like them!


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

rexroadj said:


> If your looking mainly at 100watts or so up to 200 then the hertz might be the way to go, also assuming your sub can take over pretty high (say 100-150ish)



Im a little confused, are you saying that with the hertz you need to cross them high? like 100-150hz hp?


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I suppose I should be more specific......In my LARGE doors IB the hertz would not handle below 100hz well at all! However that was with large gobs of power...... In smaller ib doors with 100 watts you might be ok with lower xover points..... Again I "challenge" the hell out of my components


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## synth808 (Feb 20, 2009)

I will also add, as I used to own a set of these before the mids froze (literally the driver side cone would freeze and then thaw in the right conditions) in the winter, the tweeters are exactly as described. I was very nervous about them being bright as I am very sensitive to anything of the sort, but these blew me away. The other thing I noticed was a lack of listening fatigue. These are the only speakers I could play for 2+ hours at varying volumes and not get fatigued listening to.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Thank you for the addition! I am glad I was not the only person that was shocked with the lack of listening fatigue or brightness of the tweeters. That is very odd about the mid freezing? I figured if it doesnt freeze around here then it wouldnt freeze anywhere (except maybe minesota)


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## red03vette (Sep 3, 2007)

thanks Rexroadj, i will let you know what happens. 

duce


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## synth808 (Feb 20, 2009)

rexroadj said:


> Thank you for the addition! I am glad I was not the only person that was shocked with the lack of listening fatigue or brightness of the tweeters. That is very odd about the mid freezing? I figured if it doesnt freeze around here then it wouldnt freeze anywhere (except maybe minesota)



to make a long story short, my crusty 96 accord has an issue where moisture has a tendency to get into the door cavity on the driver's side due to a missing wheel well liner that I'm too lazy to fix. Well, when it would snow heavy wet snow or rain and then freeeze, the mid would literally freeze until it warmed up. Did this for a couple of winters before I got the bug to change them.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Ok, at some point in time hopefully this week I am going to be trying out my imprint I have laying around active on this set. I only have 100x4 available, it will be interesting to see what it does on 100 per mid. And if its any better active. I am not sure how it will work but I will also try the imprint with the 400 per side passive


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

definately let us know about that rex. Im still interested in these comps just because i like jbl stuff. even thought im happy with what i have now, i will be trying these in the future, just to feed my curiosity.


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## namboy27 (Oct 16, 2009)

thanks for the review bro!! i currently have some image dynamics xs 65's. they are my first set of components so i was pretty impressed=)

but after reading your review i really wanna get some more midbass like how you describe. 

have you heard the xs65's and what are your thoughts about them compared to the jbl's. 

and your so humble when you give out your opinion. i love opinions!! thats what makes this "hobbie" entertaining lol


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

kizz... from what you have told me the prs set is coming along nicely. Remember what I said..................... if it aint broke, either dont fix it or break it!

Namboy
Thanks for the kind words and for suffering through my 3 pages of bs. Just remember opinions are just like aholes, we all got em and they all smell like poo!
I love the xs set! I dont think they get as low (with authority) as the JBL but they are easily as snappy/accurate (maybe even a tad more) Do the most you can with what you have before spending extra $$$$


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

lol, I don't want to break these.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Ok, sorry if the post have been lack luster and short lately. I recently threw up (no idea why?) all over my laptop and had to replace the keyboard. It just came today and its in. I had been typing about half of the letters (plastic tabs off) with a pen really hard to get a letter to show up! 
So I have the imprint in and running the setup via the passives still. I had a slight cluster **** during the process and a little leading up to it. I was having an issue with the right side going in and out of signal due to a bad rca cable. It sucks because the are the super $$$ monster pro xln that are as thick as 4-2 gauge wire. I just switched the sub wires with the fronts on the imprint and deck and all should have been fine.......However since those xln pro's lock onto terminals like nobodys business it broke the left left front terminal on the back of the deck so I had to use the rear rca outputs..... Shouldnt be a problem unless I play a dvd or something (I imagine that would cause a problem) and I actually listen to dvd concerts alot!

My first impressions were as follows......

I started with the soundtrack from CrazyHeart (great movie if you havent seen it) I am a BIG country fan and love some of the remastering of some of the old classics as well as the production of the new stuff. Its a real quality recording..... Some of the songs from Jeff Bridges are dark rustic sounds with extremely heavy but should be controlled midbass/sub bass. It was fantastic!!! The seperation was superb, details were spot on (and there is lots of them) and most amazing was the imaging...... Dont get me wrong, the imprint isnt perfect by any stretch.... It does some funky things with the sub, and it did make things a little brighter then I prefer, not over bright or anything, I just like things a little more laid back then most. Now I should also mention that I only took 4 mic measurements from the driver headrest (not all in the exact same place) and I did not touch a thing when it was done. Hooking up the laptop or even just fiddling with the remote will go a long ways. For the price they can be had for and for what they can do with a simple 2.1 setup it is awesome if you follow the directions accordingly. I would also recommend turning off the sub when taking measurements or just using the deck direct and forget about running the sub from the imprint. A lot of people think that its bad because it makes the sub have less output, thats not the problem for me. It just seems........ not what I like I guess. 

I am sure the imprint would yield even greater results running the two way set active. I know I used it for a while before, active on a set of mb quart qsd's and it was pretty great. I also used it with a three way setup active between the amps and processor and it was a little funky....I think the setup was a little to tricky for the processor.

If I get time I will try it out active. I would say with the ms-8 and bitone being the leaders for processors right now I would guess the imprint will be pretty cheap. I would say for the money it would be a great pic up if you dont like to tune, have the capabilities or just flat out dont have time. 

I have a bunch more listening impressions but I am sick of typing and pretty sure no one cares that much to read 50 pages of .................................................................................................................................................................................


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## kizz (Jun 22, 2009)

I'll read it all


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

I read you did not like the PRS set and particularly the tweeters, which is pretty much in line with all the other reviews I have read. 

But can you give a comparison of just the mids? I take it that the JBL plays lower but what about the midrange, vocals, etc? I have read many other reviews that say the JBL mids pound but the midrange is lacking. I take it you prefer the JBL, even in the midrange? Say from 300 Hz to 3 KHz?

I have pretty much narrowed it down to PRS and JBL, but I plan to run active with different tweeter no matter which one I choose. So I am ONLY interested in the mids.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Well as it says in the initial review.....I thought the midrange was impecable. I was astounded to hear it especially considering the reviews I had read about the lack there of. I think most of the reviews are from people that didnt really use them, I think maybe they just saw them in a store or read the description from JBL, etc...... I am still completely satisfied with them. I have run them with all types of power both insanely high and pretty low (low in my book, high in anyones I have to say....I think you would be doing yourself a dis-service by not at least trying out the tweeters...(on either set for that matter) You already paid for them. The tweeters on the jbl set might have supprised me the most. I bought them thinking the same thing you are. No tweets and run active........Hooked em up for the hell of it and never looked back. Obviously everyone is different and a lot depends on power and placement. Tweets should go as far off axis as possible!!! Let us all know what you end up doing and how you like it!


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

I plan to try the stock locations which for the tweters are in the sail panels. I don't think there will be sufficient room for the JBLs but I will see. Still contemplating the choice between the JBLs and the PRS.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

The Jbl's are pretty beefy for sure....However the prs arent exacly slim by any stretch! I have my tweets in the a-pillars and mids in the doors. I think great results can be had with both sets. I suppose it comes down to power on tap, space available, and budget (although they are pretty similar on price) I honestly did not take the time to really fudge with the prs set. I played for about a half hour on tweeter locations before mounting but I should have tried a few other options. I also should have tried them out active to see what they were capable of in the setup I put them in. The passives play a big part in the installation. Some sets will tell you how they were designed or have adjustments to account for on or off axis. A well designed passive xover along with proper installation can and will yeild awesome results. 
What ever you choose be sure to come back and let us know what you got and how you like it. This isnt a jbl608 fan site, its just a review and there are TONS of people going through the same decisions you are now so if they can read both sides from people who used both it will be a great help.


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## Iron Maiden (Jul 13, 2008)

rexroadj said:


> How does getting paid x amount = anything? They are paid for a specific and very very defined project and an open budget is not included. Again you just like the pretty names and you yourself have clearly not done any research on the topic if you have been going around thinking that they run off of 15watts and have 0 deadning! Less talking and more reading *******! Here is the point.....You started off by attempting to make a smart ass comment on MY thread and I can say or do what ever the **** I want to about it to you now, no lack of sleep will be had I assure you! What do I know........ Based on your F'ed up no logic theorys....absolutely nothing. I will still take my nothing background though, and am sure the vast majority on here would too! I never said that some oem systems dont sound great, in fact I have said several times in the past quite the opposite. However the idea that there can be more midbass in any oem setup then a well installed properly tuned aftermarket system is probably the dumbest thing I have heard (until whatever rolls out of your uneducated mouth next) They dont go balls to the wall as we do because they cant afford to, since there would be less then 1% of the auto buyer market that gave a rats ass, and even the bulk of them would probably assume or know it can be done better with after market items. Bottom line is you have 0 clue what the **** your talking about and coming at me like this, about this is about the same thing as going to a knife fight with a q-tip! Go do a lot more reading and learning and then we can have a discussion. Until then go find another forum that can or will deal with your ****!



Just look at the idiots at BP, big salary doesnt equal intellegence, ask JeMarcus Russell:laugh:


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## ragincajun (Jan 8, 2010)

Been having everything installed for a few months just haven't had the time to post everything up. I love the system! The soundstream and JBL are a great combination. The JBL are very loud and clear. I compared them to my buddies Hertz HSK and he admitted to the clarity of the JBL had the Hertz beat. The new soundstream are awesome. This amp provides plenty of power! 

Rexroadj I wanted to ask you if you are using the crossover in the deck or on the amp. Also what ever one you are using what are your settings?

These first pics shows what I used to fill in the holes on the door. I used 1/8" to 1/4" polyurethane disk that I pick up from work and used the sealant that they used to put down metal roofing to seal the polyurethane to the doors.


















RAAMAT on one of the doors








Speaker Ring for JBLs








Rear of JBLs








JBL tweets


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

NICE! I was running at one point the 4.920 bridged to the 608's via the passives. Right now I am running a mixed passive/active 3way setup. I have the new ppi 3ways and decided to incorporate the passives from that set as well as the midrange. I am using the jbl tweets/ppi midrange with the ppi passives and the jbl midbass active all off my human reign HRU.4 It is a KICK ASS setup so far. I could not ask for more! I was not planning on using any of the ppi set (thought I would have better luck just selling it since the jbls fit my setup better) and was going to try out the jbls active through the HRU.4. Glad you like the setup thus far. Looks like a quality install too!


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> Right now I am running a mixed passive/active 3way setup. I have the new ppi 3ways and decided to incorporate the passives from that set as well as the midrange. I am using the jbl tweets/ppi midrange with the ppi passives and the jbl midbass active all off my human reign HRU.4 It is a KICK ASS setup so far.


Hello Mr Rexroadj,

I just bought a set of the JBL C608GTi's after much research and I will admit, this thread weighed heavily in my decision after I found it. Prior to this I was running PG RSD6.5 components from the factory power in my 4Runner with the JBL Toyota Synthesis system. Not bad. Added a JBL 75.4 amp and noodled around with different hodgepodge drivers using the RSD crossover.

After installation of the jbl's however I am personally experiencing a big hole in the midrange. The midbass and lows are powerful and smooth but there is no denying the scooped sound IMO. A dedicated midrange would be perfect for this setup and for my tastes, essential. The use of the PPI mid and crossover is very intriging and the PPI midrange would actually be perfect to fit in the factory door tweeter position. I emailed PPI and got nowhere in trying to just buy the midrange and crossover. Basically told to get lost... Unfortunately can't afford to buy the whole set right now. 

Anyway, I want to get a small mid in the door and figure out a crossover. I am considering an Aura Whisper or a 2" dome mid. You say that you are crossing over the JBL midbass active? Can you share your settings to give me a starting point? Need to do some research to find a good active 2way crossover and using this with a passive between the future mid and JBL tweeter possibly. Have some indecision now but I think this might be the best system I may have ever heard.

Thank you for reading and I appreciate any help you can offer.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

The midbass are low passed at 400hz (where the passives begin) and the midrange/tweet are at 4k via the passives. If you can fit it.....I HIGHLY recommend the A/D/S/ 344is midrange....They are like $75 shipped on ebay. (bought several times from the seller and he is GREAT!) As far as passives go......I dont really know. It will probably difficult to find a worthy or fitting 3way passive network. Passives are not really meant to be passed around between sets. I would look for some sets that have some adjustments (xover points/tweet/mid levels, etc...) I would look for alpine f1, a/d/s/, quart or something in that realm or idealy see about having someone on here custom make one (or yourself of course). I am still a little supprised about the midrange....... I dont know if its because of locations in my install, huge doors, or maybe the enormous amounts of power I put to them? Also if you are trying to find the ppi midrange's email Grizz Archer direct [email protected] He is awesome to deal with and will not ignore you or tell you to go **** in a hat! I know he had mentioned ordering a bunch of the drivers to sell as solo units. I am not sure if that is still the case or how long from now that is going to be or how much. When I get some time I am going to try running just the tweets with the midbass active off my amp. I am not sure a ton is gained rather then just a slightly higher soundstage which I might be able to taylor in a similar way just by running active and tinkering with xover points.


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah I know that you just can't throw any old crossover with a couple drivers and get great results. (Do like to experiment though) I have done some DIY stuff from Zaph Audio in the past and I am learning a great deal by reading his site.

Now thinking of trying the Dayton 2" dome mid and the ND20 tweets and mimicking this crossover as a starting point for the top end. Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5 Already have the ND20's and the Dayton mids could be made to fit the tweeter location and the Dayton tweets in the pillars. (Could even use the JBL tweets and mess with the resistor values) Coupled with the awesome JBL midbass run active I believe this could be sonic nirvana. On the cheap!

A word about the JBL comps. Don't get me wrong, this is a great comp set. However, I find myself as I get older being really picky about sound, especially the midrange. Ten years ago I would have been doing backflips about the JBL's as is but now I am cursed with recently aquired GOLDEN EARS. ARRGGHHH! I am not completely happy with my $4000 Monitor Audio speakers in my home theater which everyone says sound amazing. I can't even enjoy any local bands anymore as the SQ makes me ill. Now moving into car audio is a whole new nightmare with the off axis listening, reflections, phasing issues. etc.

Anyway... This is derailing your thread by having nothing to do with the C608Gti set so I'll stop. Thanks again for your reply!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Actually I think it has everything to do with this thread so please feel free to continue!!!! It is VERY important that people hear all aspects of any set of components and other people's experience with them. In a 3way configuration (again for the $) my setup or most setups would be pretty tough to beat. (having owned what I have, I would put this up against much heavier price items) I too have experimented with several different passives and had great results with them, it absolutely can be done. I was not sure what experience you had and didnt want to see you expect one thing and get another but clearly you are way past all that. It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, know what you want, and have a great plan to get there. That is great! Please keep us posted as to what you do and how you like it. It could be helping a whole lot of people in similar situations!!! Happy listening!


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi Rex,
I got a pair of MD140/2 Dyns to come and play with the Gti. Any chance to use the Gti Xover to drive mids and tweets together while running the midbass active?
Also I think I read you saying there was no coax option for tweeter mount.
I have the Mk I and they surely can be mounted coax.
Cheers


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Hmmmm. I would not imagine that xover and those midranges will work very well together but I am not an expert in that field.....
I am going to need to see a pic of the coax setup in the mkI..... I know it looks like it should work but they never made a coaxial setup for them!


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi Rex,

Try have a look at this
YouTube - Closer look at the JBL C608GTI MKII speaker system

At 7'30, the plastic fake tweeter he touches, you can unscrew it. U tweet then comes right in there, wire going through the back grill.
At least it does on mine. Not sure this what you meant by coaxial setup but I think it is.
Cheers


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Show me a tweeter actually attached to that point. That is not removable and there is no where for the wire to come out the back. Show me one actually attached (I have discussed this directly with jbl before, and it is not a coaxial)


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi Rex,
Well I guess they did it on the Mk I and stopped on the MkII.
That would be a pity coz it is kinda practical.
Cheers


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I had owned the mk1 a long time ago and asked specifically because they looked like they would work (why else would the tweeter housing be threaded that long?) and they said it was not possible to make it a coax...The mkII are exactly the same! I am goint to buy a second set for the rears!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR THE PICS!!!!!!!!!!!! thats awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## red03vette (Sep 3, 2007)

well, if the MKII are capable of coax mounting that makes this set alot more interesting to me. Rexroadj, if you get another set can you let us know if this truly works? i wonder why they do not state this on their site? seems like a definite selling feature to me.


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

It has to be checked but I think it is mentioned on the manual as an option. On the other hand, who ever read the manual of component speakers on that site? lmao:laugh:
Glad I helped!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I have read the manual! It does not mention it.....I am so thrilled you showed me this!!! I am going to by a frigging pallet of these sets now!!! I still love the **** out of them and I have owned some crazy components in my time. I still get a **** eating grin every day from them. This maked the whole 5.1 ms-8 thing really cool to me. If I could make a 508 fit in my center area I would be DONE!..
Seriously thank you for the pics and proving it can be done. They told me it was not possible!!!! This is the best addition to this post imo!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi,
Has anyone got the opportunity to compare those juggers with something like Scan 18W or Peerless SLS8 or a Dyn?
I wonder if it is worth the step up to build a 3way active front.
Btw it is funny how Rear Fill used to be regarded as the antichrist around here and now the MS8 is out is becoming a must have... The times...they are chaaaaangiiing

PS: BTW Rex, am sending your last comment to Steve Jobs. Must be the first and only time EVER someone gets as much excited over an iPhone taken picture. Might cheer him up a bit...


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Nemesys66 said:


> Hi,
> Has anyone got the opportunity to compare those juggers with something like Scan 18W or Peerless SLS8 or a Dyn?
> I wonder if it is worth the step up to build a 3way active front.
> Btw it is funny how Rear Fill used to be regarded as the antichrist around here and now the MS8 is out is becoming a must have... The times...they are chaaaaangiiing
> ...


LOL!!!!!!!!!! It was more the content then the quality but I dont want him to go jumping off a bridge or anything  

I have owned a few different dyn setups (loved them all) and owned the f1 3way set (scan rev) and they are amazing! My brother in-law is currently using them. In a 3way setup I think the 608 would be more usefull as a dedicated midbass (more beef!). In a two way that was VERY well installed the scans were incredible. Aside from these jbl's the f1's broken up to a two way active setup lasted the longest in my truck. Although thats not really that fair either since I change stuff out all the time to try out, and have had the chance to try out some amazing gear. The scan revs/f-1 are really amazing but for me it was not worth the sickning amounts of mods needed to get them in as well as they are not going to have the volume the jbl's do. I am not saying the jbls are a better setup then the f1/scan, dyn, or anything else. For me they fit like a frigging glove (not OJ's of course!) and I honestly dont have any wish or thought of looking for another set of components. That has never happened before! Same goes for my Human Reign amp!


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Nemesys66 said:


> Btw it is funny how Rear Fill used to be regarded as the antichrist around here and now the MS8 is out is becoming a must have... The times...they are chaaaaangiiing


That's just because people are stupid. Way back in 1995 or 1996 I followed the late Bill Burton's advice to add time-delayed rear-fill to my DS (Roland digital "pro audio" processor, Audax HM130Z0 drivers run with just a highpass to keep the excursion in line) and after dialing in the level the perceived increase in the size of the "room" made me an instant believer. It also brought the perceived stage height (KEF KAR System 160Q's low and forward in the front doors) up.

More sophisticated modern approaches such as the MS-8's matrixing scheme (or Dolby Pro Logic II) should be a greater improvement than my old kludged setup.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> More sophisticated modern approaches such as the MS-8's matrixing scheme (or Dolby Pro Logic II) should be a greater improvement than my old kludged setup.


But it was well thought out, and done!


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Nemesys66 said:


> Hi Rex,
> Well I guess they did it on the Mk I and stopped on the MkII.
> That would be a pity coz it is kinda practical.
> Cheers


Did you have to use a lot of force to get the phase plug off? I tried it on mine (new) and was afraid I'd brake the plug. (Yes, I unscrewed the back.)

Also, something to think about is cutting off and sanding down the lip of the tweeter ring. It's not doing anything but creating diffraction in the coaxial configuration.


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

I dont remember really but I am pretty sure it wasnt hard to unscrew. Maybe they changed it on the Mk II but I doubt it, in that case, why did they keep that ugly donut grill for?

As for cutting and sanding the lip, well I wouldnt do it. You cancel all future possibilities to install as components.

Check the back of the magnet. Do u have the same cutout steel plate? If you dont have the holes, I guess it doesnt work as u really need them to pass the tweeter wire.

Cheers


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

Nemesys66 said:


> Hi Rex,
> Well I guess they did it on the Mk I and stopped on the MkII.
> That would be a pity coz it is kinda practical.
> Cheers


lol i never even thought about using them as coaxels, thats funny, idk why anyone would these things can be very harsh, like he said in the reveiw. them being off axis is very important, i'm unable to take mine off axis, whitch is why i plan on switching out for a smoother tweeter. but there still a pretty awsome set, and can take a beating.


i was looking at some tweeters maybe somebody in here could help me narrow down some choices. right now i'm pretty interested in this tweeter 

SB Acoustics SB29RDCN
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8664
or its cermac brother 
SB-Acoustics SB29RDC
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8540

or
SEAS Prestige 27TFFNC/G
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_324&products_id=1466

i have my tweeters mounted next to my woofers. like this








(dont worry it'll be dampended and deadend when i put the new tweets in, also building new baffles out of some MDF)








and what the door panels look like


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Nemesys66 said:


> As for cutting and sanding the lip, well I wouldnt do it. You cancel all future possibilities to install as components.


No you don't. You still have the other mounts. Or you could order new ones from JBL.

From experience with other drivers, getting rid of that lip will be a marked measurable and audible improvement.



Nemesys66 said:


> Check the back of the magnet. Do u have the same cutout steel plate? If you dont have the holes, I guess it doesnt work as u really need them to pass the tweeter wire.


Yes, the same 4-spoke pole vent cover. Might be metal but I assumed it was plastic.


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

DS-21 said:


> No you don't. You still have the other mounts. Or you could order new ones from JBL.
> 
> From experience with other drivers, getting rid of that lip will be a marked measurable and audible improvement.


Ok, maybe. Might try that in the future.

Rex, do u have any infos on the Xover points? Just to have an idea of the settings if I want to fit my MD140/2 in between Woofers and tweeters.
The Dyns range from 500 to 6K and I also have a nice and cute Morel Ultimo 10 to complete this happy family.
Could u share a bit of your expertise on how you would set it up?
Thanks guys


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Nemesys66 said:


> Ok, maybe. Might try that in the future.
> 
> Rex, do u have any infos on the Xover points? Just to have an idea of the settings if I want to fit my MD140/2 in between Woofers and tweeters.
> The Dyns range from 500 to 6K and I also have a nice and cute Morel Ultimo 10 to complete this happy family.
> ...


Xover points on the passive? or what would I set in an active setup? I guess there are a few questions to be asked first....What are the locations going to be like, power, whats your processor, etc......


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

I would not make a three-way with a coax and a midrange. And I would use a better subwoofer. That should save you money, too.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> I would not make a three-way with a coax and a midrange. And I would use a better subwoofer. That should save you money, too.


I agree about the coax/midrange thing....I dont know if he was running that set as a coax or just proving to me it could be done (thanks again for doing that by the way!)

Better subwoofer.....Thats all opinion and dont think that debate needs to go on here, please!


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

eviling said:


> lol i never even thought about using them as coaxels, thats funny, idk why anyone would these things can be very harsh, like he said in the reveiw. them being off axis is very important, i'm unable to take mine off axis, whitch is why i plan on switching out for a smoother tweeter. but there still a pretty awsome set, and can take a beating.
> 
> 
> i was looking at some tweeters maybe somebody in here could help me narrow down some choices. right now i'm pretty interested in this tweeter
> ...


Wow! This is weird. I came to the exact same conclusion concerning the JBL tweet and had been considering the very same tweeters that you listed. Heavily favored the SB Acoustics neo.

This JBL tweeter can be quite nasty sounding with certain music and I am starting to question the passive crossover point. My factory head unit has a midrange EQ as well as bass and treble and I noticed with this component set that turning up or down the midrange control PRIMARILY effects the JBL tweeter! With my PG component set this EQ effected the 6.5 driver only. I dont know what frequency the headunits mid EQ is centered at but this tells me that JBL crossed this tweeter over quite low and it may be distorting trying to produce mid frequencies at higher volumes. I don't know the JBL's passive crossover points and don't feel like digging them out of my install to try and figure them out but I think my hunch is right. 

Now adding a different tweeter may not be a great option unless I get one that plays pretty low. Brings me to consider these.

Dayton RS28F-4 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter | Parts-Express.com

I wired the JBL tweets out of phase and that helped to tame them some as well as installing them in the doors and off the dash. My electronic crossover will be here on Wednesday and I can't wait to play with an active setup.


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

OK. I looked up the JBL manual and it lists 3500 LR4 as a crossover setting. Looking at a pic of the crossover on Sonic Electronics and messing with a crossover calculator tells me that THIS IS TRUE for the tweeter. However I do not see a coil for the woofer but there is an electrolytic cap suggesting a LR2 2000 crossover point. 

Weird...


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

I am going to go out to the 4runner and try some things...


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> I agree about the coax/midrange thing....I dont know if he was running that set as a coax or just proving to me it could be done (thanks again for doing that by the way!)
> 
> Better subwoofer.....Thats all opinion and dont think that debate needs to go on here, please!


I was planning to mount the tweeters separately. They were set as coax until lately but will evolve on the future install.
I was refering to the passive Xover points because it is hard to find infos about the drivers and tweeters of the set.

As for my setup design, which has changed at least 3 times in a couple of month , here is what i plan:
Wanted to go for 3 way front + Sub
So far I have:
Jbl C608 Gti
Dynaudio MD140/2
Morel Ultimo 10
Sinfoni 150.2x
Sinfoni 90.2
Sinfoni 50.4x
Alpine pxe-h650
H650 will end up in my Bro's car and I will most likely get a MS8 (3 way front is too complicated with the H650).
I will mount the midbass in the doors, MD140/2 in kicks and tweeters on dash or A-pilars.
Power as follows:
150.2 bridged on the Morel
90.2 on the 6.5 Gti
50.4 on mids and tweeters (2*50 + 2*50)
I also thought about powering the tweets from MS8 internal and drive MD140/2 through the 90.2 and the GTI through the bridged 50.4.
From where I stand it seems pretty cute and might give me the possibility to add a rear fill in the future (still have a couple of T595 and a DLS A3 waiting aside).


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

Well I switched out the JBL passive crossovers with the Phoenix Gold RSD passives and interestingly enough... The harshness of the tweeters is GONE! Everything sounds smooth, even, and musical.

The downside is the sound is somewhat compressed at louder volumes. The detail smears and dynamics are reduced. Also, the volume of the components is overall lower and turning up the amps sensitivity only made the compression worse. Stands to reason looking at the PG crossover components. (cheap inductors and caps) I wonder if mimicking the tweeter circuit of the RSD's but with quality parts wouldn't improve this set dramatically?

Naw... Screw that. I get my electronic crossover on Wednesday. :guitarist:

My brother always said that passive crossovers are more an art than a science. He also used to say that the difference between a $500 loudspeaker and a $10,000 loudspeaker is the crossover and this is correct. Something is not quite right with the JBL passive.


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

Nemesys66 said:


> I was planning to mount the tweeters separately. They were set as coax until lately but will evolve on the future install.
> I was refering to the passive Xover points because it is hard to find infos about the drivers and tweeters of the set.
> 
> As for my setup design, which has changed at least 3 times in a couple of month , here is what i plan:
> ...


Looks good and thats some great gear. I see now that active crossovers are the way to go.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Nemesys66 said:


> I was planning to mount the tweeters separately. They were set as coax until lately but will evolve on the future install.
> I was refering to the passive Xover points because it is hard to find infos about the drivers and tweeters of the set.
> 
> As for my setup design, which has changed at least 3 times in a couple of month , here is what i plan:
> ...


Hmm, great gear! However.....I am not sure about the install locations.....Midrange being that far from the tweets. If you can get the midrange up near the tweets (dash maybe) I think it will yeild far greater results. The ms-8 is going to be able to help take care of a lot of things BUT that still might get funky. Why exactly do you feel you "need"3way? I would try it out as a two way set first run actively from the ms-8 and use the extra channels to add a center or rears!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

vlad335 said:


> Wow! This is weird. I came to the exact same conclusion concerning the JBL tweet and had been considering the very same tweeters that you listed. Heavily favored the SB Acoustics neo.
> 
> This JBL tweeter can be quite nasty sounding with certain music and I am starting to question the passive crossover point. My factory head unit has a midrange EQ as well as bass and treble and I noticed with this component set that turning up or down the midrange control PRIMARILY effects the JBL tweeter! With my PG component set this EQ effected the 6.5 driver only. I dont know what frequency the headunits mid EQ is centered at but this tells me that JBL crossed this tweeter over quite low and it may be distorting trying to produce mid frequencies at higher volumes. I don't know the JBL's passive crossover points and don't feel like digging them out of my install to try and figure them out but I think my hunch is right.
> 
> ...


Just curious as to what the install is like (where, what vehicle, power, etc..)
I have worked on several vehicles now where people have complained about harsh? tweets! Everytime its because people fail to listen to/dont understand OFF AXIS! Just like mb quart tweets (mainly q since those were the only ones I used (a lot!) if you have any sort of harness, then the settings on the passives are not right or they are not off axis. I have had well over 500watts a side to each set via the passives (nothing wrong with there passives either, they are actually VERY well done) with a flat eq and I couldnt get them to be harsh/bright if I tried. My suggestion is to tinker more with mounting location/angle of the tweets. Changing passives randomly is not the best of solutions for several reasons which I am sure your already well aware of. 
Active is a very nice feature but again....its not going to help with harshness, if they are not WAY off axis then it will not be cured. 
keep us updated as to what you end up with for xover points etc....when you do go active and how it sounds! Seriously though (and dont take what i have said the wrong way) fiddle with the location/direction of the tweets first. Obviously you know what your doing but they are finicky about that stuff, more so than any other tweeter I have used in the past but it can be very well worth the time


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

vlad335 said:


> My brother always said that passive crossovers are more an art than a science. He also used to say that the difference between a $500 loudspeaker and a $10,000 loudspeaker is the crossover and this is correct. Something is not quite right with the JBL passive.


ANY passive crossover designed to blend two drivers without knowing anything about where they will be mounted or how far apart they will be is a hack. You may have gotten somewhat lucky with the PG crossover, but chances are there are serious problems with it as well.

BY FAR the easiest way to get good sound in a car is go active with either a good autotune based on spatially-averaged measurements (JBL MS-8, one of the Alpine boxes with Audyssey MultEQ XT) or a good measuring kit and parametric EQ.


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

DS-21 said:


> ANY passive crossover designed to blend two drivers without knowing anything about where they will be mounted or how far apart they will be is a hack. You may have gotten somewhat lucky with the PG crossover, but chances are there are serious problems with it as well.


I listed the problem with the PG crossover. Much smoother with the trade off being a compressed sound. Also admit that this was a lucky shot but have no intentions on using the PG anyway. (That set's going in the wife's car) Just an experiment last night since I was put On Call at work last night.




DS-21 said:


> BY FAR the easiest way to get good sound in a car is go active with either a good autotune based on spatially-averaged measurements (JBL MS-8, one of the Alpine boxes with Audyssey MultEQ XT) or a good measuring kit and parametric EQ.


I hear ya! Wish I could afford the MS-8 but that aint happenin. My active crossover should arrive tomorrow from Ca. and then I get to avoid sound going through inductors, capacitors, and resistors. I plan on trying out a DEQ2496 with measurement mic I have here to set levels, EQ a bit and try to smooth the system out.


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> Just curious as to what the install is like (where, what vehicle, power, etc..)


2003 Toyota 4Runner with the factory JBL system. I kept the factory headunit CD changer and use a Maxxsonics MX-1 to convert signal from the factory amp to a pair of JBL amps. GTO7001 sub and GTI75.4II bridged 280 watts a side to the comps. I have tried the JBL tweets in a variety of spots on and off axis and I just don't like them. Used double sided tape and these windshield mount thingies to try multiple placements.



















_In the pics the Dayton ND20's are mounted and Cerwin Vega tweets are in the factory position. _

Maybe there is something wrong with the ones I have IDK but they have an asstastic squelch that I just can't tolerate. The only placement that would seem to tame the nastiness was way off axis and but then I got significant rolloff.

Another experiment... This morning I hooked up the Cerwin Vega's and the Dayton's to the JBL passives and it was a great improvement. However the CV's are 8 ohms and the ND20's are 6 ohms so this slammed the crossover point lower. I put caps on the Daytons to roll off around 13k and then ultimately placed them facing each other on the pillars. 

I chose the Dayton ND20's because of Zaph's tests. Extremely low distortion up higher and excellent off axis.

I have had the CV's for years and used them on multiple projects and they are very smooth. Almost too laid back actually but this fits the car enviroment. They can take incredible power without distortion but tend to roll off slightly off axis as well so thats where the Dayton's come in. The ND20's are also a little hotter than the CV's so I think I need to pad them down about 2 db.

Read up on here and a Dash pad needs to be added.

Don't know if I am going to go with the CV's but the ND20's are a keeper for upstaging. See if I can get the 2 to play nice with each other with an L-pad. Wow. I enjoy this stuff.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Interesting...nice to see the attempts at trying different things! (I too love to tinker with different items  Sorry the jbl tweet wasnt working out. I was just driving home today after a really bad day and was smiling because of how much I loved the sound from my setup. I definitely think the vehicle makes a huge difference as well. How do you like those CV tweets overall? Seem like quite the bargain! Also if your are interested in an Alpine imprint 650....got one I'm not using  
Best of luck with the end result! Its all about what puts a grin on your face with the music.....dont forget it or let anyone change your mind about it!


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

Thanks man. When I can go active will give the JBL tweets another try. As far as the Alpine, I don't know if I can afford it. PM me what you are looking to get out of it.


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

Guys, completely off topic but I just received the Ultimo I got on eBay.
Think I need a hug here...


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

That sucks, but look on the bright side. You should be able to get insurance money from it (or void the transaction on eBay), and then you can apply that to get a cheaper, higher-performance woofer.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

vlad335 said:


> Wow! This is weird. I came to the exact same conclusion concerning the JBL tweet and had been considering the very same tweeters that you listed. Heavily favored the SB Acoustics neo.
> 
> This JBL tweeter can be quite nasty sounding with certain music and I am starting to question the passive crossover point. My factory head unit has a midrange EQ as well as bass and treble and I noticed with this component set that turning up or down the midrange control PRIMARILY effects the JBL tweeter! With my PG component set this EQ effected the 6.5 driver only. I dont know what frequency the headunits mid EQ is centered at but this tells me that JBL crossed this tweeter over quite low and it may be distorting trying to produce mid frequencies at higher volumes. I don't know the JBL's passive crossover points and don't feel like digging them out of my install to try and figure them out but I think my hunch is right.
> 
> ...


 it isn't acutaly, it cross overs acutlay pretty high , i forget if it was 2500 or 3500 but it either is sitll plenty high for a tweeter, this neo could easily play 1500 if i recal, i'd love to switch the cross overs perhaps but than i might as well replace the mids and sell the mkii's. anyways, the cross over point is fine, your mid range on your deck, it sounds like you have a very basic EQ, probobly only 3 bands, so the mid range band on such an EQ would go pretty high, so that the 3 bands are devided equaly, the more bands on your EQ the more you can conrol, i have 7 bands on my deck and i can easily pull the highs out, and push the mids, and it blends fine with the stock cross overs. but even with that, like you mentioned their are some issues with some music, they become very harsh in the higher ranges, and like rexroadj said, these will sound much much better off axis, because basicly what taking it off axis is doing it lightening up the top end of the frequency range of the tweeter, or more or less making it sound much smoother by the time you hear it. 

there honestly a very nice set, the best i've heard, in terms of the range of music they can play with quality.

i have mine paired with an alpine PDX 4.150, whitch most people come to the same conclusion with these speakers, they are suited perfectly for that amp.  i also have 2 cadence 6x9 mid range driver in my rear, they are bearly noticable, but when tuned and with the proper T\A, they blend in very nice, the model i have are the cadence CVLW-6 http://www.woofersetc.com/p6025/CVLW69--Cadence-6-x-9"-MidBass-Driver.htm, they handle power like you wouldn't believe. dual magnet, the construction is a 7\10, but the sound they produce is very nice. i have a video of them on a bench test i did with just one of them on my sound system on my computer. added the sub in at 40 seconds. but they sound amazing (in my opinion at least) for just a mid range driver, and a 6x9 at that.






as far as the tweeters, i found they sound best near the woofer, ive had them in 2 cars, and i used to have 2 sets of these, i sold 1 of them a bit ago (to a member here) but i have the newer set in my current car. anyways, i originally had a set of them in a box, and they sounded amazing, i had them basically in an IB situation though. now i have a set mounted in my monte carlo 04, in the door panels, with the tweeter on ground level with the wooder mounted in the stock bafels. 
















cross overs in the trunk by the amps 









I have those neo domes on the way, and i'm gonna play with them, there very nice tweeters from what i hear and with the proper tweaking i can get these puppys sounding great  i'm possessive of that.


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

DS-21 said:


> That sucks, but look on the bright side. You should be able to get insurance money from it (or void the transaction on eBay), and then you can apply that to get a cheaper, higher-performance woofer.


Hmmm, got it for 200 bucks. What cheaper, higher performance sub you can get around that?


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

You can fond a JBL w10gti mkii for under 300$ of eBay. I got my w12 for like 350sh. I also like the Polk sr subs. Not as good on spl as the mkii but still great sq subs. I have a 12" sr laying around if your interested


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Nemesys66 said:


> Hmmm, got it for 200 bucks. What cheaper, higher performance sub you can get around that?


Peerless XLS/XXLS, Dayton Reference, and Exodus Audio Shiva-X are the three go-to budget high quality small subwoofers today, IMO. All of them will have more output, equal or lower distortion, and better parts/build quality than anything Morel's ever put out. 

As others have mentioned, the JBL GTi is also an obvious choice, if you can handle the depth.


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

eviling said:


> as far as the tweeters, i found they sound best near the woofer, ive had them in 2 cars, and i used to have 2 sets of these, *i sold 1 of them a bit ago (to a member here)* but i have the newer set in my current car. anyways, i originally had a set of them in a box, and they sounded amazing, i had them basically in an IB situation though. now i have a set mounted in my monte carlo 04, in the door panels, with the tweeter on ground level with the wooder mounted in the stock bafels.


You sold that set to me actually.  (Gimmee back some feedback bro!)

Anyway... May be something to the sound improved with the tweet closer to the mid. I am going to have to mess with that. Tried to unscrew the phase plug from the midwoofer to do a coaxial but it wont budge. I admit I didn't try too hard because snapping it off would be a disaster of epic proportions.



eviling said:


> I have those neo domes on the way, and i'm gonna play with them, there very nice tweeters from what i hear and with the proper tweaking i can get these puppys sounding great  i'm possessive of that.


Cool. Be sure to report back what you think about them.


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

DS-21 said:


> Peerless XLS/XXLS, Dayton Reference, and Exodus Audio Shiva-X are the three go-to budget high quality small subwoofers today, IMO. All of them will have more output, equal or lower distortion, and better parts/build quality than anything Morel's ever put out.
> 
> As others have mentioned, the JBL GTi is also an obvious choice, if you can handle the depth.


Don't forget the JBL Power Series subs. I just picked up a pair for an awesome price from a great seller on Ebay.

2 JBL P1222 IN CAR AUDIO/STEREO 12 INCH SUBWOOFERS/SUBS - eBay (item 180548649742 end time Sep-16-10 11:41:06 PDT)

I can't do the depth or the wiring options with the GTI's.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

psh screw the p1222, go with the w12gti mkii 
NEW JBL W12GTi MkII 12" DUAL 6 OHM GTi SERIES SUBWOOFER - eBay (item 230513992801 end time Sep-19-10 10:29:56 PDT) 
 280! cant beat that deal with a stick  

or go with a 10" with the w10gti mkii 
JBL W10GTI-MKII IN CAR 10 INCH SUBWOOFER/SUB GTI SERIES - eBay (item 180552329691 end time Sep-23-10 12:37:05 PDT)


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## Nemesys66 (Apr 14, 2010)

eviling said:


> You can fond a JBL w10gti mkii for under 300$ of eBay. I got my w12 for like 350sh. I also like the Polk sr subs. Not as good on spl as the mkii but still great sq subs. I have a 12" sr laying around if your interested


Thanks man but I have to find it in Europe or the shipping will kill me.
Found a nice deal on Peerless XLS 10 or 12. Will have a better look at them.
Still pisses me off that people deal with gear without so few care.
Anyway, sorry i hijacked the topic...


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

That really really sucks about the ultimo  Hopefully it will be made right $$wise.
I HIGHLY recommend the jbl power series. The gti's are amazing but nothing will be lost going to the powers. Less power handling (seriously who is going to put 3k to a 10"sub!)
and MUCH easier to install (depth of course). I am so shocked more people are not running them. They are super finicky as far as box build/cuft, but once done correctly they are just amazing woofers. I also find the boston acoustics g5/g3 to be amazing woofers as well. Nice small boxes, dont need a **** ass load of power and just nice clean bass is what you get back! Really though, there TONS!


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

heh those are peak ratings, the 10" isnt really meant to be ran at 3000 watts, i run my 12" at about 1000 rms, but my gains are a bit lower, so maybe 800, MAYBE, and it can thump when i want it to, and its a beutiful sub, its basicly designed to be an unblowable sub. 


anyhoo, got them neo dimples today,. nothing short of amazing they are, i have only put them on a bench a little so far but they are very sharp, and very acurate tweets, i have it at around 1500 i believe my stereo crosses over, and they sound awsome, it always amazes me how efficiant tweeters can be. with little to no movment they can produce as much noise as a 3" driver. 

anyways, they sound like they'll work very well for the set, they aren't harsh at all, but they aren't mellow or weak, they are just the right mix. whitch is why i got them, i read they were a middle of the road kind of tweeter. i'm excited to put them in but i wont be for a bit yet, have a buisy weekend, and school all week so we'll see if i get some time to do it. but i plan on building some MDF baffles, and i will finily finish deadening my doors, and maybe my trunk if i get motivated  i have tons of mat, just never got around to it.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

eviling said:


> heh those are peak ratings, the 10" isnt really meant to be ran at 3000 watts, i run my 12" at about 1000 rms, but my gains are a bit lower, so maybe 800, MAYBE, and it can thump when i want it to, and its a beutiful sub, its basicly designed to be an unblowable sub.


Obviously....


I know I had mentioned in here somewhere about my alpine pxe-h650 imprint unit......If anyone is interested in it let me know. I just dont need it. Its a great unit and is awesome for setting up a two way active set of components. If your not running a surround setup then its a great alternative (cheap) to the ms-8. 
Pm. me.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

oooo how much  PM me lol doubt i can afford.


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## red03vette (Sep 3, 2007)

rexroadj said:


> Yeah I have certainly run the mill when it comes to amps, subs and speakers over the years......I suppose I have gone through a good many decks as well.....its been fun and a great learning experience to play with all that stuff. I really enjoyed it, I am not as into the testing as I used to be. I have to admit.....I really actually liked the ss component sets as well as the new rs and qs sets. I found the ss to be great for acoustic material as well as detailed vocalists. They were a tad querky in the tuning department but all in all I enjoyed them. Of the three you mention..... the jbl, kicker, and the hertz, I would say you have three different animals there. Hertz without question is fantastic stuff. The MLK's are awesome. Very neutral and detailed and I suppose revealing is a good term to use with them. I would say that with higher power you would get less return from them vs. the jbl or kicker. I also found the tweeter to break up a little easy. Keep in mind I power the hell out of my stuff so it might be just due to the severe punishment they were taking from me. That might be one of the reasons why I love the JBL's. 400+ a side all day long and the pretty much laugh at me.
> the kicker would not be able to do the same as well but can get insanely loud and run with a hearty 200+ (pretty sure they run at 3ohms anyway) If your a
> heavy midbass guy then none of them will be able to hold the jock of the
> Jbl's. Top end and midrange is also tough....I love the top end and midrange
> ...


Well I finally decided what to do. I ended up going with a set of Hertz speakers(hsk165xl). I could not find anywhere close enough to me to audition the JBL's and the place that can order them wants around $700cdn (taxes in). I also tend to agree with you about supporting our local shops (it's good for my local economy and my friends that work at said local shop) . I got a pretty good deal on the Hertz and if I need any warranty work it's just a few blocks away. And last but not least the 165XL's sound great (on the board at least, and hopefully in my truck soon)


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I am sure they will sound great in your truck! They are a fantastic set. Kudo's to you for buying local! Hopefully you will never have a problem, but its a nice insurance policy to have! Good luck with the system! 
If you should ever decide to want a set of the jbl's....let me know, I can do WAY better then that, direct from jbl. The price is about the same as ebay but I buy direct from JBL and again its fully covered and they are awesome to deal with. I buy a lot from them!


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## red03vette (Sep 3, 2007)

Thanks! I did not know you could order direct from JBL. If for some reason I want to try something else in the future I will definitely contact you. Thanks again! And I will let you know how the Hertz work out. 

Duce


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

No problem! 
I am not a dealer or anything like that. I have an acommodation for JBL via a company I am part on the side. I dont offer it to anyone and everyone as its not any better then ebay $ for the most part, although its authorized! I think I pay like $238.00 shipped to me, so it would be that plus shipping to you (for intstance) I wont even say what I pay for the ms-8 or the new ms amps buts its AWESOME!


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## red03vette (Sep 3, 2007)

rexroadj said:


> I wont even say what I pay for the ms-8 or the new ms amps buts its AWESOME!


good plan! don't want to get em all going.  and cheers to you :thumbsup:
i will keep your goodwill in mind.

duce


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## scionboxrox (Jan 12, 2009)

I am running the c608gti mkii active off of a alpine pxa h700 with the tweeters on a gto1004 and the mids on a gto1004. The mids are in the kicks and the tweeters are in the sail panel. I am having trouble with the mids giving me some nasty peaks and wonder if you know how well these will perform in a deadened door. I am running this for pure sq as much as possible, I just can't seem to tame these mids any. Also, would you prefer the tweeters on axis or off. Gary Biggs gave me the impression they are best on axis but, these jokers can get waayyy loud easily. I can keep them where they are or I can move them to the a-pillar. 

Thanks for any input,

Jeffery Blake Potts


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

scionboxrox said:


> I am running the c608gti mkii active off of a alpine pxa h700 with the tweeters on a gto1004 and the mids on a gto1004. The mids are in the kicks and the tweeters are in the sail panel. I am having trouble with the mids giving me some nasty peaks and wonder if you know how well these will perform in a deadened door. I am running this for pure sq as much as possible, I just can't seem to tame these mids any. Also, would you prefer the tweeters on axis or off. Gary Biggs gave me the impression they are best on axis but, these jokers can get waayyy loud easily. I can keep them where they are or I can move them to the a-pillar.


Actually I was going to retry the C608gti's again running active this time. My experience with the mids is they were smooth and punchy in the doors of my 4runner. Doors are deadened and sealed. On the other hand, the tweeters were nasty for me run passively in the stock upper door positions and also on-axis rigged into the a-pillars. Thinking of trying the tweeters in the kicks and the mids in the doors this time and will post my impressions.


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

Scion, are you bandpassing your mids while crossing over actively? Thinking about this and wonder if you are getting cone breakup. Not sure how the passive crossover works but now I am wondering if it has a circuit to deal with this.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

ok let me clarify this again.........tweets should be as far off axis as possible for best results. Personally I prefer my tweets in the a-pillars but thats preferance. I can say this about my mids......again my doors are huge and well deadend, there's certainly no peaks (maybe some really low ones when the high pass is off). Have you tried adjusting different xover points?
what vehicle is it in?
what are your xover points?
what state are you in? auburn?


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## scionboxrox (Jan 12, 2009)

As of right now i am running the tweets from 3.6k at 24db slope to 20k and the mids are crossed at 3.2k 24db slope to 63hz at 12db slope. I play with the xover points all the time and the issue is at 110 to 150 hz from what i can hear. 
These are in a 04 Scion xb and yes I am a student at Auburn University in Auburn, Alabama. The kickpanel enclosures are approx. .26 cu.ft. I am gonna try the tweets in the pillars. everyone with a scion has been putting them there.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I think the problem at that freq. is most likely due to the small size of any sort of pod/kick. Might be worth giving the doors a shot if you cant reel that peak back in with the eq?


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

scionboxrox said:


> As of right now i am running the tweets from 3.6k at 24db slope to 20k and the mids are crossed at 3.2k 24db slope to 63hz at 12db slope. I play with the xover points all the time and the issue is at 110 to 150 hz from what i can hear.


Ah... I thought the peaks you were referring to were up higher. Yes, more than likely too small of an enclosure as these mids were meant to be run IB.


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## vlad335 (May 17, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> ok let me clarify this again.........tweets should be as far off axis as possible for best results. Personally *I prefer my tweets in the a-pillars* but thats preferance.


Could you clarify something for a total dumbass? Are you talking about placing the tweeters here?










I am pretty sure that's where you are referring to but wanted to make sure.


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

I'd like to try a pair of just the woofers in my car... I don't see me replacing the Alpine tweets anytime soon, but considering I have over 200W on tap for each door, those mids intrigue me.

Of course I can probably buy the whole set cheaper than what JBL would sell me 2 loose woofers for.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

kvndoom said:


> I'd like to try a pair of just the woofers in my car... I don't see me replacing the Alpine tweets anytime soon, but considering I have over 200W on tap for each door, those mids intrigue me.
> 
> Of course I can probably buy the whole set cheaper than what JBL would sell me 2 loose woofers for.


you are %100 correct! With my accomodation with JBL I can get the set for roughly the same price it is on ebay, its a great deal considering its msrp. I called once because I was/is toying with the idea of a second set of midbass drivers in the doors. It was MUCH cheaper to go and buy just another set. They are going by the msrp of the whole set and the midbass drivers definitely make up the majority of $ in the set.
200 a woofer would be outstanding!


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

vlad335 said:


> Could you clarify something for a total dumbass? Are you talking about placing the tweeters here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, the plastic piece that runs from the top of the dash to the bottom of the roofline between the front door jam and windshield, exactly where the tip of your arrow lays. I would have the tweets facing each other, maybe slightly upwards, and if needed perhaps even slightly facing towards the glass. You would need to play with it of course.
And for the record, thats not a dumbass question! There can be a bunch of pillars in a vehicle, and its become a generalized term over the years and sometimes people refer to tons of things as A-pillars.


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## scionboxrox (Jan 12, 2009)

That is exactly where I am planning on putting the tweeters between the door and the windshield. About 2 to 3 inches above the dash and facing a little toward the rear view mirror. The mids just have that resonance. I did some listening to some string bass tracks and i gotta say that I think it is the enclosure too. I may can open them up some and add some airspace to them later on. We will see, otherwise, I hope everyone knows how much fun these speakers are to listen to. Concert style sound- It has bite and lively style to it. I like a little more in you face sound though. Laid back sounds boring. No emotion--just well, soundzzzzzz(sleeping):laugh: 

Have a good night all


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

scionboxrox said:


> That is exactly where I am planning on putting the tweeters between the door and the windshield. About 2 to 3 inches above the dash and facing a little toward the rear view mirror. The mids just have that resonance. I did some listening to some string bass tracks and i gotta say that I think it is the enclosure too. I may can open them up some and add some airspace to them later on. We will see, otherwise, I hope everyone knows how much fun these speakers are to listen to. Concert style sound- It has bite and lively style to it. I like a little more in you face sound though. Laid back sounds boring. No emotion--just well, soundzzzzzz(sleeping):laugh:
> 
> Have a good night all


Thats an excelent way to describe the set. You pretty much pin pointed my whole review! Wish you did it earlier, I could have saved a ton of time and typing


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## caver50 (Sep 2, 2007)

Hi Rex... a couple of questions, so have you made a direct compairson between 150w per side compaired to 300 or 400w per side and Do you feel that the midrange comes alive due to the additional power?

I have the Hertz Hskxl's running off the JL HD600/4 at 150w per side and I absolutly love them. Ofcourse that amp will bridge at 300w per side. As much as i like these, I'am always willing to hear something new. Have you had the chance to listen to these Hertz speakers and if you did, what is your compairson of the two?


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Thats a great question about the differences that the power gave....
I hate to be so vague but I found that everything came more alive with the added power. Dynamics, vocal clarity, midbass, etc..... I have not tried any hertz equipment in quite a few years. I really like what they do though. I had tried the original mille's at the time and the had a wonderful sound out of the box but always seemed fragile and wimpy (I felt like they were like ageless antiques) Thats just not what works in my environment, its not a knock on them, its more of a knock on me and what I put my stuff through! If your set is anything like the other set the comparison would be like apples and watermellon!!!!!! Polar opposites, I found both very pleasing but for completely different reasons. To me the jbl set is far more lively (not at all bright, just live like) where as the hertz were laid back and subtle (very airy and revealing especially on acoustic and female vocals)


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I actually might be selling my 608's and going back to the 660's or maybe give the spz60s a go around????? ya never know!


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## caver50 (Sep 2, 2007)

Right now I believe I have a simular setup to yours. Didn't you say that you installed this in your truck or did I miss understand? Anyway mine are installed in a 03 standard cab Silverado, midbass in the doors and tweets
in the A-pillars. My door pods are absolutly rock solid.(lots of work) The tweets are actually reflecting off the windshield, first time i've done this with great success, so they are off axis. I might try a set of the JBL's one day with 300w per side just for fun.

The 165xl's are more agressive than the Millies so if you get a chance, give
them a listen.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Yes same type of setup.....04 ram quad cab with mids in the doors and tweets in the a-pillars and the are very off axis....towards each other, slightly towards the windshield


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I am going to offer on here (not going to list it in the classifieds yet) the 608 set with a set of a/d/s/ 344is 4" midranges for a partially active setup. 4" and tweets off the jbl passives and the midbass run active from my amp. Its an absolutely phenominal sounding setup. I am offering it because I was offered a chance to try out some new stuff so me being me I just cant resist  $275 shipped for the whole shebang!


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## Audioguy36 (Jun 10, 2010)

Damn, your ears are a lot different than mine. I could not get these bad boys sounding right. Sure the mid bass was there but mid range and top end was nasty.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

It has nothing to do with ears! I cant tell you how many times I have dealt with the same issue with people regarding this set. You go in there car and the tweeters are almost completely on axis BAD BAD BAD! A lot of it could have to do with the midbass enclosure or free air door size. I have HUGE doors. This set is nothing short of stellar when done properly. To be honest, if you do the right things per set, pretty good results can be had with most component sets on the market today. People just assume what worked with one set will work with all, and if it doesnt then its the set. The midrange on this set is stellar in my setup. I keep trying out 3way configurations with this setup (and its great) but I always end up taking them out because its just not really necessary.


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## rubberband (Oct 30, 2010)

rexroadj I have an 04 dodge ram QC too. I'm going to be installing a set of the JBL 608 gti.
would you happen to have any pictures of your install? Manly interested in your tweeter placement in the A pillars.
Thanks!


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

rexroadj said:


> Yes same type of setup.....04 ram quad cab with mids in the doors and tweets in the a-pillars and the are very off axis....towards each other, slightly towards the windshield


I don't have this particular set of components, but my install is setup exactly this same way and is nothing short of phenomenal. Best way I've found so far to get that stage height right where it needs to be in a Dodge Ram.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> No problem!
> I am not a dealer or anything like that. I have an acommodation for JBL via a company I am part on the side. I dont offer it to anyone and everyone as its not any better then ebay $ for the most part, although its authorized! I think I pay like $238.00 shipped to me, so it would be that plus shipping to you (for intstance) I wont even say what I pay for the ms-8 or the new ms amps buts its AWESOME!


I know what you pay for the MS-8's . Have not seen the new JBL MS-8 Amps... hmm


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

DAT said:


> I know what you pay for the MS-8's . Have not seen the new JBL MS-8 Amps... hmm


$462.00 for the ms-8
$332.75 for the ms amps (both are the same price) 
Not great but at least I know where they come from and that if theres a problem I can get it taken care of.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

rubberband said:


> rexroadj I have an 04 dodge ram QC too. I'm going to be installing a set of the JBL 608 gti.
> would you happen to have any pictures of your install? Manly interested in your tweeter placement in the A pillars.
> Thanks!


Sorry bud, I dont bother with pics because the setup usually changes all the time.... This might be the longest I have had a set in my truck  I have the tweets about 5" or so up from the top of the dash on the a-pillars. I have a few different a-pillars that I can swap out for different size tweets or midrange. Its definitely the best place I have found in that truck. I had zero luck with kicks in my truck, although I know that several people have....Its just not my cup of tea. I also like the midrange in the stock locations (dash)in a 3 way setup. 

Still toying with the idea of doing two 608 midbass in my doors, either that or I am going to go ahead and get the 660 set again.


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## caver50 (Sep 2, 2007)

Rex, have you considered a large format tweet with those midbass drivers or just a tweet that plays lower? All my lows sound like their comming off my dash. I contribute
part of that to the Hertz HT28 tweets. They play very low so I feel like they draw the lows up. So, is your stage high enough to suit you?


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I have thought about large format drivers that play lower but not with these mids. I did not really find it necessary since they can play very well up pretty high and with the added power I find them to add some really nice impact in the higher ranges. I really dont "need" to go 3way with these to have good results. I had the 4"s around and they seem to fit with this set like a glove so I figured why not? The combo I have been playing around with in my head to try is the fostex ft48d tweeters since they can play INSANELY low and the fostex fw208n 8" driver. I think this could be a great setup that could have a great deal of tuning versatility due to the lack of frequency restraints between two drivers. Plus if they fail in the truck, they would be awesome in the house


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## caver50 (Sep 2, 2007)

Did you sell the 608's yet and did you have a chance to listen to the Hertz XL's? hmmm


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I am still running the 608s and 4" ads setup, like everything in life its still for sale  
I have heard countless hertz setups. HSK's and several other sets. They are completely out of control with how many different lines they have had over the last couple years! I know people are going to get REALLY angry with this statement but here it goes anyway. I find HERTZ to be the most over rated audio company I have ever been around in the audio scene bar none. I am not saying that they do not make some great stuff because they do. What I am saying is that people think that they are some sort of magical company that can only produce the greatest **** on the planet. The fact of the matter is that some of there lower lines and even some of the "middle" lines are some of the biggest pieces of **** out there and when comparing price points in my opinion they just dont really stack up with several others. Again this is just my opinion and some of the setups I heard and demo (for many hours) were wonderful.


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## caver50 (Sep 2, 2007)

Honestly, I think the Mille's are only slightly better than the XL's. Actually the XL's may have more midbase. Hard to justify the cost difference. Yeah your right, it's a popularity
contest. My name is bigger than yours, therefore I can charge more. The money game.

Love my setup, but I'am always interested in hearing something new.

Oh by the way, is that tweet a 1" or 1 1/8" ??


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

1" edge-driven, pure-titanium-dome tweeter,

The whole car audio scene is a popularity contest!!!! Still kinda fun though

The difference between anything hertz vs. the 608 is night and day, not better or worse, just different. Its all about personal taste of course. Its nice when you get something your happy with but its still tough to fight the bug either way, its really tough for me because I have spent so many years trying out new things so often. This might be the longest I have had a component set installed in my truck?


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

anyone have the 508gti mkII? i want to know if the phase plug can come out and the tweeter screwed in ... i want to use them as coaxials ...


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## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

Just bought a set of the C608 GTI MKII......can't wait to install em.....now I just need a car


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> 1" edge-driven, pure-titanium-dome tweeter,
> 
> The whole car audio scene is a popularity contest!!!! Still kinda fun though
> 
> The difference between anything hertz vs. the 608 is night and day, not better or worse, just different. Its all about personal taste of course. Its nice when you get something your happy with but its still tough to fight the bug either way, its really tough for me because I have spent so many years trying out new things so often. This might be the longest I have had a component set installed in my truck?


Didn't the last one explode? Hi Rex long time  

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> 1" edge-driven, pure-titanium-dome tweeter,
> 
> The whole car audio scene is a popularity contest!!!! Still kinda fun though
> 
> The difference between anything hertz vs. the 608 is night and day, not better or worse, just different. Its all about personal taste of course. Its nice when you get something your happy with but its still tough to fight the bug either way, its really tough for me because I have spent so many years trying out new things so often. This might be the longest I have had a component set installed in my truck?



Hey buddy.....I am car audio free aside from touchscreen in dash I have no audio and its so good to not be constantly looking to try that next amp or set of comps. 

I am now into the home stuff but on beer budget but the results when changing stuff in home stereo to me are more satisfying. 

Running a vintage sansui integrated amp as a pre-amp and then some Crown pro audio amps. vintage meets class D.


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