# crown amps ?



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Hi ,

Are these any good ?

The Crown CE4000 Power Amp delivers 1,400W per channel @ 2 ohms, 1,200W @ 4 ohms, and 600W @ 8 ohms, 2,800W @ 4 ohms bridgd mono, 2,400W @ 8 ohms. Its Balanced Current Amplifier switching technology generates more power with less heat. It works with any line voltage and its Switch Mode Power Supply allows enormous power with less weight (34 lbs.). Other features include sophisticated protection circuitry (from shorted, open, or mismatched loads; input and high-frequency overloads), a 5-way fault indicator, a red LED on each channel that turns on when distortion becomes audible, a green signal present LED, detented level controls, a mode select switch for stereo or bridged, 3-speed fan, 4-position high-pass filter switch, 3-position low-pass filter switch, and global power supply. 3U rackmount.

Crown CE4000 Power Amp Specifications:

1,400W per channel @ 2 ohms 
1,200W per channel @ 4 ohms 
600W per channel @ 8 ohms 
2,800W @ 4 ohms bridgd mono 
2,400W @ 8 ohms bridged mono 
Crown CE4000 Power Amp Features:

Balanced Current Amplifier switching technology 
Works with any line voltage 
Switch Mode Power Supply 
Sophisticated protection circuitry and 5-way fault indicator 
Red LED to indicate audible distortion 
Green signal-present LED 
Detented level controls 
Mode select switch for stereo or bridged 
3-speed fan 
Global power supply 

I'm going to use it to power a couple of IDMAX DVC 4 ohm 10 inchers.


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## phatredpt (Feb 22, 2006)

....


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

There is a whole post on Crown amps on AVS Forum. Long story short, everyone loves them. You may have to replace the internal fans with something quieter. That's about it.


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## notrious2 (Feb 25, 2008)

The CE series is an O.K amp. not sure if you are looking at new or used. Is this for home use? A MUCH MUCH better sounding amp would be the Crown K2, you can find them on ebay. They recently discontinued them from the factory, but lots kicking around, and its in a whole different leauge. Anything Crown Macro Tech is an amazing amp, but has a bit of fan noise. (K2 has no fan).

I have over 60 Crown amps (production company), but we switched to Lab Gruppen FP series.

If you dont mind spending some cash... Lab Gruppen FP series would be the way I went.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

I had correspondence with Chad and Thylantyr about the particulars before going ahead with the purchase  

It will be more along the lines of where I'm heading with my subwoofer experiments.

I'm a low end designer, why, cause that is what everyone needed or wanted.

see a need fill a need.
quote} 
You are about to bid on a Store Display Crown CE4000 amplifier. This unit is in Brand New Condition. Please see below for item details and Key Features. 

end quote}

It fell within what I felt was decent $$ range for this amplifier


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

auction

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140204951689&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=004


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## notrious2 (Feb 25, 2008)

a$$hole said:


> auction
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140204951689&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=004


You bought that amp from my buddy I am in that shop once a week. His name is Tony


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

notrious2 said:


> You bought that amp from my buddy I am in that shop once a week. His name is Tony


Thanx ! for the heads up


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

notrious2 said:


> The CE series is an O.K amp. not sure if you are looking at new or used. Is this for home use?


The CE4K is a completely different bird than the CE1K and 2K



notrious2 said:


> A MUCH MUCH better sounding amp would be the Crown K2, you can find them on ebay. They recently discontinued them from the factory, but lots kicking around, and its in a whole different leauge.



Again..... The CE4K is a completely different bird than the CE1K and 2K, the K series uses the same output topology but instead of a linear power supply it's PWM.



notrious2 said:


> Anything Crown Macro Tech is an amazing amp, but has a bit of fan noise. (K2 has no fan).


K2 is a different bird too than the MA/MT/PB/PT/oldCT series as those use a grounded bridge topology and the K/CE4K, IT, etc use a balanced current PWM scheme.



notrious2 said:


> I have over 60 Crown amps (production company), but we switched to Lab Gruppen FP series.


I fix AND abuse the darn things  I think the switch to lab was wise, I DO like the ITech for going lighter and the built in DSP is tits but if you already have DSP at FOH, don't want to be tied to a laptop (crown needs to come out with a rack mount controller  ) then the LG is a damn fine amp, we recently had one production company switch to Lab while the other switched to ITech. 

Chad


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## notrious2 (Feb 25, 2008)

Itec's are the biggest piece of **** known to mankind!!! Just got rid of 48 of them!! pure firewood!! most unreliable amp ever made... I think I swapped out all 48 in a matter of 1.5 years. They blew up, froze, crashed, burned...... blew up countless speakers because of going DC. What a nightmare!! They sound like **** too!!

Lab Gruppen all the way. The best sounding pro amp out there. and super super reliable.... the new FP1300+'s have stupid amounts of power. It will make 8 18" drivers bark and scream for mercy, And sounds AMAZING.


The CE4000 is an O.K. amp. Its no macro tech though.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Went DC...... are you sure you weren't seeing oscillation? Think about the design  Darn near impossible.

I find the Macros to be unreliable in certain conditions, especially in hot/cold extremes, the IOC/ODEP run at a really high impedance, ANY condensation on the [gasp] FRONT panel means no-show till it evaporates 

I don't own Crown for this reason, The Grounded bridge works on a VERY fine balancing act, if that act is upset she goes south. I also find ODEP one of the most heinous sounding protection schemes out there, friggin Peavey's DDT works better than ODEP.

I'm more of a Crest guy, everybody has their flava. Gruppen is a bit rich for the work I'm doing at this point. (retired from the touring trenches 4 years ago)


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

so after the last 100 years no-one builds a plug n play pro amp thats reliable and works hot or cold that everyone likes, 

but we can put a space ship close to mars?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

60ndown said:


> so after the last 100 years no-one builds a plug n play pro amp thats reliable and works hot or cold that everyone likes,
> 
> but we can put a space ship close to mars?


I'd be willing to bet that these amps go thru more hell in their life than the mars rover, never underestamate the ignorance of "rock-n-roll stage crews"  I'm sure notrious2 can give a hell-yeah on that one.

Large scale touring audio is much less than 100 years old, it's actually a very young industry. Younger than the aerospace industry!

On with your comment though, isn't amazing that we put a man on the moon before we discovered that wheels on luggage would be a novel concept?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

It will be perfect for my needs  










pulse width modulation seems just like what the Dr. ordered


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## notrious2 (Feb 25, 2008)

a$$hole said:


> It will be perfect for my needs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bro, for the price you paid for that thing..... It's an amazing amplifer.... it will shake the place for sure.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Notrious2,

Some have pointed out the error of my ways, but in my lack of understanding I have decided to power two IDMAX 10's in an enclosure better suited to playing tweeter frequencies with a PWM type of amp.

Hopefully, I'll finally learn something at the SHK ,{school of hard knocks }, that I will be able to use in furthering my enjoyment of listening to music.

At that price the Crown was a steal to me  .


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

a$$hole said:


> but in my lack of understanding I have decided to power two IDMAX 10's in an enclosure better suited to playing tweeter frequencies with a PWM type of amp.


It will work, it's just not a full horn flare, rather a bandpass 

You got them flares designed up yet?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

chad said:


> It will work, it's just not a full horn flare, rather a bandpass
> 
> You got them flares designed up yet?


I'm not gonna rush Pete [ not that i could ], all in due time  

As far as enclosures go [BP, ported , sealed and horn ] I'm gonna listen to this for awhile along with a set of sealed enclosures [2-way ].


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

chad said:


> The CE4K is a completely different bird than the CE1K and 2K
> 
> Again..... The CE4K series uses the same output topology but instead of a linear power supply it's PWM.
> 
> Chad


I had a 750 four "K" Honda, this amp has a K, my first name is Kevin  

Shuld be golden on this purchase  !


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## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

notrious2 said:


> Itec's are the biggest piece of **** known to mankind!!! Just got rid of 48 of them!! pure firewood!! most unreliable amp ever made... I think I swapped out all 48 in a matter of 1.5 years. They blew up, froze, crashed, burned...... blew up countless speakers because of going DC. What a nightmare!! They sound like **** too!!
> 
> Lab Gruppen all the way. The best sounding pro amp out there. and super super reliable.... the new FP1300+'s have stupid amounts of power. It will make 8 18" drivers bark and scream for mercy, And sounds AMAZING.
> 
> ...


Itech had some initial growing pains. Word on the street says these issues
are resolved. Why did you buy so many, usually you don't buy the first
model year of a new car .. ROFL ..

>>They sound like **** too!!

LOL, your post is already suspect, now you are saying that when the amplifier
performed, they didn't sound good. -> points the finger at your install  

Everyone got a boner for Lab FP6400, then bink did the proamp tests
and guess what ? The Lab failed pretty badly.

http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/bink/bink.jpg

That amp does 1/2 of what it claims @ 20hz, does much less at 20khz.

Considering this amplifier has a street price of $4200, this amp has issues.

I was wondering why and did some homework. I haven't done my write-up yet,
but here is a quck summary.

1. Their power supply design isn't well executed. The concept of a tracking
power supply is sweet, but very few if not nobody executes this idea
well for 20hz -20khz. Their tracking supply fails at higher frequencies, hence
the crippled score at 20khz, plus the crappy score @ 20hz.

2. No PFC for an expensive amplifier like this. /dumb

3. Have you see the amp guts for FP6400 ? That think is a fugging nightmare.
.. shoot the engineer who made this please...........

4. There is a reason why Lab recently intruduced FP+ series, because their
the old FP series wasn't very good. Progress is being made, kudos. FP13000
looks nice, but independent tests need to be done.


re: CE4000

1. Find me a better amplifier for ~$650 to drive your subwoofers  
2. Proaudio applications are different than home audio applications.


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## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

> Some have pointed out the error of my ways, but in my lack of understanding I have decided to power two IDMAX 10's in an enclosure better suited to playing tweeter frequencies with a PWM type of amp.
> 
> Hopefully, I'll finally learn something at the SHK ,{school of hard knocks }, that I will be able to use in furthering my enjoyment of listening to music.


What are you building ? A horn speaker using 10" woofers playing full range?
CE4000 will do fine in the midange band. I bet if people did an ABX test they'd not notice any
issues playing tweeters. 

CE4000 is the King of amplifier for HT sub applicaitons especially if you can get them
for $650 +/- $150. Find me a better amp on the used market and we will
update the database and dethrown the CE4000.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Chad calls it a horn motor, Steve Deckert calls it a WO32  

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25354


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## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

I can tell you right now the CE4000 is a beast. One guy on the AVS forum
who upgrade from the Behringer EP2500 to CE4000 didn't take the power of
CE4000 serious and caused mechanical damage of his TC2k woofers, because
he didn't set his high pass filter [subsonic]. Becareful with that amp, it's not
a toy.

Download the CE4000 documents and owners manual.
http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/legacy/legacamp.htm


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

thylantyr said:


> I can tell you right now the CE4000 is a beast. One guy on the AVS forum
> who upgrade from the Behringer EP2500 to CE4000 didn't take the power of
> CE4000 serious and caused mechanical damage of his TC2k woofers, because
> he didn't set his high pass filter [subsonic]. Becareful with that amp, it's not
> ...


Thanx for the heads up


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