# Sound deadening to luxury levels?



## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Wondering about sound deadening and how well it can take a non-luxury car and make it better at NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) to luxury car levels. Essentially, I'm looking at a decent handling sedan and need good rear seat room. The new Honda Accord looks very good from a new technology and has a large rear seat but even going with the top of the line Accord, it isn't even up to the NVH levels of its Acura namesake. I'd be interested at looking at something like a Lexus GS or an Acura RLX/TLX but other than SH-AWD the Honda is in many ways a much better all around car though I know that is subjective.

I know luxury cars have more insulation and even acoustic glass but I'm trying to figure out how big a difference full deadening of a car could make. I'd be using SDS products and I'd do the entire car, roof, doors, floor, wheel wheels etc. 

Anyone have experience doing that with a Honda Accord or similar? Decibel measurements at different frequencies would be even better. When/if I end up pulling the trigger and doing this, I'll definitely take measurements. Thanks.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

haven't done any deadening in it yet, but we got a new accord 2.0t touring a while back...it's a pretty great car!


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

One of the big things with luxury cars is air transfer and the aforementioned glass. Air getting in and out brings sound. Ever sit in a RR Phantom when the door opens? Sounds like cracking open a coffee can.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Depends what level of luxury your talking. Just a heads up, soundproofing a job is by far the most daunting task i can think of in car audio, and its getting much harder in newer cars due to how tight panels are.


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## VincMartel (Mar 21, 2017)

This is not exactly the info you are looking for but it may help you.

I did the floor and doors of my 2010 civic using SDS method and materials. It brought my civic to about the same noise level of a 2016 Accord. I tried both cars on the same day/roads and subjectively it was about the same. (no measurements taken)

Like Skizer said, it’s a tremendous amount of work. You literally have to take apart all the interior. Putting everything back together with no rattles is not an easy task!

Don’t forget you will add about 200lb of material. Payload of my civic is about 850lb. I would say it’s a serious trade off.

I would estimate to a good 5-6 days of work to do it right, if you are well prepared and know how to work with car interior.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Depends what level of luxury your talking. Just a heads up, soundproofing a job is by far *the most daunting task i can think of in car audio*, and its getting much harder in newer cars due to how tight panels are.


Sure was for me.

IMHO one of the areas where 'quiet luxury cars' put a lot of focus is on all the 'hard point' mounts from the suspension to the cabin ..... it's very hard to alter that meaningfully on a car after-the-fact. Another is wind-noise control _at the source_ - those really quiet luxury cars have a lot of exterior details aimed at minimizing wind noise _at the source_ which makes keeping the cabin interior quiet a lot easier. Yet another is careful tire choice by those manufacturers, which you obviously _can_ alter, but the trial-and-error of finding what works best for your car can be mighty expensive.

Having said that and having done a complete and agonizingly tedious and laborious full CLD + CCF + MLV + assorted cavity insulation treatment of my decidedly non-luxury Ford Escape following SDS tutorials .... the _subjective_ improvement (nope, no before-and-after dB measurements) as noted not only by me but also by harshly critical and un-biased passengers was _significant_. 

I'm still trying to wear-out my noisy Michelins so I can try a different tire in hopes of further noise reduction 

My '14 Escape has an OEM SoundScreen windshield; I'm still watching wrecking yards for intact front door window SoundScreen glass that was OEM starting in '16 (it _does_ help block the wind noise on the Escape with their non-flush door windows).

I'd do the full-tilt acoustic treatment again for myself but wouldn't do it for any amount of money on another person's car. Hell, I wouldn't even _help_ beyond watching and drinking beer - this olde phart's body and hands ached for weeks after the project. :laugh:

Oh, and if anything the added weight of the acoustic treatments and all my amps _improved_ the ride of my car - I'm alone in it 95% of the time, loss of payload not a concern in my case, it's just like having a large but well-distributed passenger.


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## Dragon Systems (Apr 23, 2018)

Why not consider just buying a Lexus or Acura from the very start, maybe even save yourself some coin and pickup a CPO Lexus?? Luxury cars depreciate like no ones business, I bet you get a nearly loaded late model Lexus for nearly the same price as a mid spec accord... or, if you just have to have a new car, look at an Acura TLX, I think those start at like $35Kish, hell, I paid almost $28K for my 2017 Civic Touring, I almost wish I would have gone Acura myself.


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

I recently during the summer did the painfully tedious and arduously painstaking process of trying to deaden my 2016 Honda Civic Sedan to the max. SDS products, Second Skin products, Dynamat, Raam Ensolite, Roxul, UltraTouch, lead tape, the whole shebang.

Entire interior was removed minus some of the upper front dash. Neighbors thought I was tweaking or something.

I’m talking 60-70% SDS CLD coverage averaged across the whole vehicle. My floor (front firewall, bottom floor, and under rear seat bench) is a layer of CCF/MLV then Luxury Liner Pro (more CCF/MLV), the SDS Cargo Mat instead of stock carpet (which is even more CCF/MLV).

My 4 doors have SDS CLD, Roxul Acoustic Foam, DynaPlate, Damplifier Pro, CCF/MLV, and additional Luxury Liner CCF/MLV in certain spots where space permitted.

Trunk is more SDS CLD, Stinger RoadKill Carpet, then 2 layers of CCF/MLV. The. After all equipment is finally done being installed under false foor, i’ll Some more SDS Cargo Mat material. 

Then through the trim I have UltraTouch and acoustic Melamine Foam stuffed.

There is so much sound deadening I have loss mpg efficiency and think I need to consider a suspension upgrade down the road.

Homer Simpson “Doh!” 

As I did not take any before measurements to compare. 

The car IS quieter no doubts about it. By how much? I can’t say with numbers but noticible enough to others besides myself. I also feel it is a better acoustic environment for the system to get more robust performance out of my speakers.

But even after all that laborous work, once I’m not idle or at city cruising speeds and I’m on the highway going 60mph+, that awesome difference I mentioned becomes way less noticeable.

You hinted on it earlier. The acoustic level glass in luxury vehicles, I feel is what sets them apart in terms of quieting your ride at higher speeds.

I purchased my 2016 Civic Touring for $26K. My wife found her used 2016 BMW 328i for $22K! 

Noticing how much quieter her ride was with stock deadening than my stock Civic is what sent me down this whole deadening journey. I took a stab at it, but even then I feel the windows sealing and glass thickness is a factor that I can’t overcome without breaking the bank to point of just buying the higher end vehicle in the first place.

Nice thing I can brag about though over her BMW is the Comma.ai hack I implememnted to make my civic semi self driving on the highway 
So I hear you on the Honda’s having attractive technology for the price.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Dragon Systems said:


> Why not consider just buying a Lexus or Acura from the very start, maybe even save yourself some coin and pickup a CPO Lexus?? Luxury cars depreciate like no ones business, I bet you get a nearly loaded late model Lexus for nearly the same price as a mid spec accord... or, if you just have to have a new car, look at an Acura TLX, I think those start at like $35Kish, hell, I paid almost $28K for my 2017 Civic Touring, I almost wish I would have gone Acura myself.


Unfortunately my teens are getting pretty tall and I’d rather drive my car instead of the minivan when we are running around town. The Lexus and Acura sedans don’t have much rear leg room and then throw in the older technology (CarPlay, safety, etc) and they aren’t that impressive. My mechanic only works on Acura, Honda, Lexus, and Toyota so those are the front runners, which leaves me looking at the Accord (40.5” rear leg seat room) or maybe the Acura MDX, which I really don’t want an SUV. But your point is one I’m struggling with and part of the reason I asked. I guess I could get a used Lexus LS but I’d like something a little sportier but maybe I need to grow up, naw, no reason for that.


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## Dragon Systems (Apr 23, 2018)

Well... I was detailing my car a few weeks back and a guy in a Lexus LS460 L pulled in next to me... he let me check out the car, the thing was a tank.. I bet that sucker has all the leg room you would ever need


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the very good points. I remember doing my TL and I took the entire car apart from front to back and I put down CLD as a contiguous surface as opposed to just CLD tiles so I’d say it was a little overkill. And the doors do thunk when closed and I think the overall car is quieter but wind noise wasn’t abated. So good points and things I’ll consider when test driving cars.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Thanks bnlcmbcar. As you were cataloging your products I was mentally thinking, forget the decibel measurements, did you weigh your car before/after? But very good information and thanks for sharing. The comparison with the BMW is telling and I think highway speeds are important.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Dragon Systems said:


> Well... I was detailing my car a few weeks back and a guy in a Lexus LS460 L pulled in next to me... he let me check out the car, the thing was a tank.. I bet that sucker has all the leg room you would ever need


Hadn’t really considered the LS as it isn’t exactly a nice handling car but NVH would definitely be taken care of and I’d have plenty of room for audio equipment. And yes, plenty of rear seat leg room. 

EDIT: Just spent the last 30-60 minutes looking at used LSs.


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

dgage said:


> I was mentally thinking, forget the decibel measurements, did you weigh your car before/after?


Haha Yep! In the ballpark of 350-400 lbs of added weight. On a civic at that. My 1.5L turbo is handling it surprisingly well.

Let’s just say I don’t have to pay any more $ to give my car a lowered look. I definetly feel the weight on large turns like highway entrances and exits. Suspension work will be inevitable. But next in the sound deadening journey will be treating the external wheel wells with MLV and like FordEscape mentioned, better tires. 

Something like the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus that are designed to be quiet.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Something like the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus that are designed to be quiet.


Not for me. I’d treat the heck out of the wheel wells because I run ultra-high performance summer tires focused primarily on rain performance but I also pay attention to noise levels based on Tirerack reviews. My high performance tires handle in the rain like the stock tires handled in the dry. Tried going back to good but normal tires to save some money as high performance tires don’t last long but the performance difference was so glaring that it felt like the car was unsafe in comparison.


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Nice! I hear you on UHD! Those are on the BMW. For the Civic, I threw out my performance ambitions once I added all the weight. Plus not much rain in San Diego.


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## josby (May 8, 2011)

dgage said:


> The new Honda Accord looks very good ...





dgage said:


> I know luxury cars have more insulation and even acoustic glass


FYI, 2018+ Accord has acoustic glass windshield in all trims, and EX, EX-L, and Touring have acoustic front door glass, too - source. All trims except Sport also get noise-reducing resonators in the wheels, like Acuras have for years. 2016+ Civics have acoustic glass, too, but windshield only.


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## Hubbard 0 (Jun 20, 2018)

dgage said:


> Hadn’t really considered the LS as it isn’t exactly a nice handling car but NVH would definitely be taken care of and I’d have plenty of room for audio equipment. And yes, plenty of rear seat leg room.
> 
> EDIT: Just spent the last 30-60 minutes looking at used LSs.


I seriously doubt any Civic or Accord is going to handle any appreciable amount better than a Lexus LS, Si model excluded. It would be 10x easier to make an LS handle as well or better than a Civic vs making the Civic as quiet as an LS. There's a pretty decent aftermarket for the LS too.

I have an S Class, which is what I was going to recommend for it's double pane glass all around and all the other luxury sound treatment that you won't get in anything else except for a Bentley or Rolls. Also, tires have a huge impact on road noise, so that means no wide, low profile summer tires if your ultimate goal is a quiet environment.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

I just finished adding sound deadening to a 2017 Corvette. The Corvette is a noisy car. Tire noise is really loud. For me, I turned the Bose system off once I hit 65mph. Too much noise to hear anything. Want a discussion with a passenger at 65+? Yell loudly.

To add deadener I had to gut it of everything short of the dash. All seats, carpeting, and all interior trim. Scary to gut the interior of a new $70K sports car.
I used SDS and Noico CLD @ approx 35% coverage. Made sure to hit all interior panels including the back of the finish plastics. Added cotton padding where I could (Cascade I-12). Used Cascade VB3 (like MLV, but uses lead foil instead of vinyl-easier to form) on the floors, transmission tunnel as well as the wheel wells. It took days to put it all in and a ton of patience. 

I now have it all back together and the change is very noticeable. I can have a conversation with a passenger at 85mph at normal voice volume. It almost scary how much improvement it made.

The only downside is I'm now thinking of tearing another vehicle apart to do the same thing.


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## jdr7243 (Nov 15, 2018)

josby said:


> FYI, 2018+ Accord has acoustic glass windshield in all trims, and EX, EX-L, and Touring have acoustic front door glass, too. All trims except Sport also get noise-reducing resonators in the wheels, like Acuras have for years. 2016+ Civics have acoustic glass, too, but windshield only.


Thanks for this info - I have a 2018 Accord and I think I saw this mentioned somewhere once, but totally forgot about it until now.


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## alachua (Jun 30, 2008)

Best realization I ever had was "buy the car that fits your needs and not the one that fits your wants". It sounds like your needs are quiet, can accommodate an aftermarket stereo install, and has lots of rear leg room. If you want something that handles well, put the money you would spend on deadening into a miata to drive on the weekends.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Ive had a few BMW, many Honda's and Toyotas, now I have an Acura and a Lexus .
The BMW tops them all as far as sounding treatment. Acura and Lexus has slightly thicker jute padding under the carpet. 1/2" compared to 1/4" in a regular Honda or my wife's old matrix. Cld was used in a few more places but overall there isn't much compared to BMW.
BMW had foam padding built in to the carpet which on average is 2" thick. The padding at the passenger footwell/firewall is ,4" thick. It was thick enough I cut out the section and built a sub enclosure and only lost 1" of foot space.
Panels go together really tight in every BMW I've owned and more mechanical fasteners used than most Japanese cars.

In my Acura I did a layer of second skin on the floor ,covered w 1/4" neoprene and then 1/8" mlv and it's a major PIta to get carpet to sit right and panels to go back in right. I even had to modify the sill panels to sit properly.

If u want to take a non luxury car. Your best bet is to do 100% cld coverage on floors. Then do some 1/4 -1/2" neoprene or similar material and then mlv. Then buy new carpet and recarpet then interior.

Then do similar treatment to the interior of each door. Cld and to think foam under headliner..

As mentioned you're looking at a several day process.

Good luck


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

I have the aforementioned GS (350). It is in the shop getting some accident repair done now. In the interim, I am driving a stock, late model camry. The difference in noise is very noticeable. Enough so that even while using the bluetooth phone, the person on the other end could hear road noise. On the Lexus, the whole trunk is sectioned off from the back seat, sans a 10 x 10 ski hole. even that, has a door to further remove trunk noise from entering the cabin. I have incorporated some cld treatment to trunk, but more to keep vibrations down from the subwoofer on the rear deck.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

The wife drives a 2011 CRV which just has jute behind the carpet and some baked on deadener in some spots. It's not a quite vehicle in any way.

My 2015 Camry V6 has a thick dense rubbery foam, almost like memory foam but denser, lining the entire carpet. It's about 1.5" thick in some places but 1/4" thick in others like it's molded to the floor pan. There is not much room for layering anything else. It also has the baked on deadener like most cars do. The car is much quieter than the CR-V... and was quieter than the 2015 Accord V6 that I test drove before purchasing the Camry. I'm satisfied with the comparatively lower noise levels in the Camry and opted not to do the tedious work of lining the interior with MLV/CCF... but rather focus on the doors, kick panel areas, and rear wheel wells where most of the road noise seems to be coming from.

My Dad has a 2015 ES350 and it is quieter but I think mostly that is do to the extra rubber seals that seal off the wind noise and reflected tire noise better and the thicker sheet metal. It also has the same dense rubbery foam under the carpet.

But I wonder what this dense rubbery foam is that Toyota/Lexus and maybe others use? Perhaps Sorbothane infused foam? Wish the aftermarket would offer a product like this.


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## LostnEye (Feb 18, 2016)

FordEscape said:


> IMHO one of the areas where 'quiet luxury cars' put a lot of focus is on all the 'hard point' mounts from the suspension to the cabin ..... it's very hard to alter that meaningfully on a car after-the-fact. Another is wind-noise control _at the source_ - those really quiet luxury cars have a lot of exterior details aimed at minimizing wind noise _at the source_ which makes keeping the cabin interior quiet a lot easier. Yet another is careful tire choice by those manufacturers, which you obviously _can_ alter, but the trial-and-error of finding what works best for your car can be mighty expensive.


I agree this is something even more difficult if not practically impossible to overcome than just adding deadener. I typically get loaners when my car in is the dealer for service and actually have a Lincoln MKC now and have driver the Ford Escape which is the same chassis, yes the Lincoln is quieter but the VH factor in NVH is less as well. The subframe may be the same but bushings can be different, the luxury version may have active or adjustable dampers, even tire selection plays a part. I found it hard to find same chassis Honda/Acura or Toyota Lexus info but here is the Audi A3/VW Golf in diesel models which tend to be nosier but same chassis, same motor.

Idle 55mph	60mph	70mph
Audi A3 2.0 TDI 2016 43.0 62.1 64.5 64.9 
Volkswagen Golf TDI 2016 45.0 62.1 65.6 66.0


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

Today my wife said my Corvette is quieter than her Lexus RC350.


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

I was in the same boat with deciding on cars. I had my eyes set on either a 2006 LS 430 Modern package or 2015 Kia k 900 vip package. Gave up on the Kia due to unknown reliability. In the end I decided to just keep my 2014 Scion TC monogram and just deaden the entire car with Ram mat, SDS, second skin. 

I test drove the LS with regular glass and dual pane windows. I barely could tell a difference. Acoustic glass has better noise rejection properties than dual or triple pane windows anyway. 

I can't wait to dump these Michelin MX4 noisy junk and go quiet Pirellies. A few manufactures put chambers or absorbtion on there wheels like Lexus and Acura.


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

I've researched people putting 3m security window film on windows and noticed a decibel noise drop.

Also couldn't you put CLD tiles inside your wheels and get the same affect?


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

K-pop sucks said:


> Also couldn't you put CLD tiles inside your wheels and get the same affect?


No. The noise comes from the tire/road interface and anything internal to the wheel/tire would have very little impact. Someone did a test (I don't recall where I found it) and they didn't see any difference. Now you can use CLD in the inside of the wheel well and possibly on the liner and those will reduce noise.


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## Blackbeard (Nov 19, 2014)

Bizarroterl said:


> Now you can use CLD in the inside of the wheel well and possibly on the liner and those will reduce noise.


Please explain diff between inside and on liner.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

Typically newer vehicles have a liner in the wheel well. You can take out the liner and apply CLD to the wheel well metal (the metal that the other side of is the interior). Depending on the liner material and what adhesive is involved you may be able to apply CLD to the liner also. However that should be done on the side away from the tire to reduce the exposure to water, rocks, etc.


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## Blackbeard (Nov 19, 2014)

Bizarroterl said:


> No. The noise comes from the tire/road interface and anything internal to the wheel/tire would have very little impact. Someone did a test (I don't recall where I found it) and they didn't see any difference. Now you can use CLD in the inside of the wheel well and possibly on the liner and those will reduce noise.


https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...cally-insulated-tires-really-hush-road-noise/


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

Hmm. 1db better. I stand corrected.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Bizarroterl said:


> No. The noise comes from the tire/road interface and anything internal to the wheel/tire would have very little impact. Someone did a test (I don't recall where I found it) and they didn't see any difference. Now you can use CLD in the inside of the wheel well and possibly on the liner and those will reduce noise.


This isn't quite correct either. Honda uses Helmholtz absorbers in their wheels and it does work. Tesla uses acoustic foam inside their tires and it also works. 

The foam would help any tire, but would need to be balanced and adhered permanently. The Helmholtz absorbers have to be designed for an exact wheel/tire combination.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

If you read the link in blackbeard's post you'll see that foam inside the tire offers at most 1db improvement. That is a foam engineered and installed by the tire manufacturer. It isn't something you can DIY.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Bizarroterl said:


> If you read the link in blackbeard's post you'll see that foam inside the tire offers at most 1db improvement. That is a foam engineered and installed by the tire manufacturer. It isn't something you can DIY.


I honestly don't think there us any reason the open cell foam couldn't be DIY.
Obviously one would want/need to be careful with the accuracy of cutting it and also use a strong and proper adhesive to prevent independent movement of the foam inside the tire, but other then that it would be simple math to gauge the thickness of the OCF to reduce whatever frequency was most disturbing. 

Now the helmholz resonators are a different matter altogether!!! LOL.


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

Subbing...good discussion here. I recently took measurements before and after stage 1 of my sound deadening in my Vette. I have yet to measure Stage 2 which included MLV. But, just from my calibrated ear-balls, it is a great deal quieter. I will back this up with more measurements next time I have the car out.

And yes, I'll post the measurements here.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

DIY tire foam would require you overcome temp extreme issues, flexing, balance, and repair problems. All that and you may just match what the tire manufacturers and their teams of engineers have done - 1db improvement under some situations. 

Yes, adding foam to the inside of a tire may reduce noise, but for the cost, hassle, and likely result it really doesn't make a lot of sense. One can get much better results elsewhere for less money and time.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

Ronin,
I used CLD and Cascade VB3 to sound deaden my C7 Corvette. How well did it work? My wife says it is quieter than her RC350 Lexus and she's right. I find it a little disconcerting how quiet it is.


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## West1 (Jun 20, 2018)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> I recently during the summer did the painfully tedious and arduously painstaking process of trying to deaden my 2016 Honda Civic Sedan to the max. SDS products, Second Skin products, Dynamat, Raam Ensolite, Roxul, UltraTouch, lead tape, the whole shebang.
> 
> Entire interior was removed minus some of the upper front dash. Neighbors thought I was tweaking or something.
> 
> ...


WOw, that's a ton of work! GJ!


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## AudioHeir (Mar 9, 2017)

We purchased a 2015 Acura TLX and a 2015 Honda Accord and until driving my TLX on the interstate, I had no idea it came stock with such amazing noise reduction. 80mph on the interstate and it is better than whisper quiet. My Accord on the other hand... wind and road noise central. It’s pathetic. As an audio enthusiast I will always go Acura or better.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

AudioHeir said:


> We purchased a 2015 Acura TLX and a 2015 Honda Accord and until driving my TLX on the interstate, I had no idea it came stock with such amazing noise reduction. 80mph on the interstate and it is better than whisper quiet. My Accord on the other hand... wind and road noise central. It’s pathetic. As an audio enthusiast I will always go Acura or better.


Ummm....I believe your 2015 Acura TLX has ANC (Active Noise Cancellation) so that is probably why you perceive it to be so much quieter on the HWY. Or have you disabled the ANC and it's still quieter than your Accord?

The ANC will wreak havoc on the FR of an aftermarket audio system, especially in the midbass and subwoofer frequencies.


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## Blackbeard (Nov 19, 2014)

Bizarroterl said:


> If you read the link in blackbeard's post you'll see that foam inside the tire offers at most 1db improvement. That is a foam engineered and installed by the tire manufacturer. It isn't something you can DIY.


Biz
I posted that so we could see foamed tires are not the great solution from above. However, I do believe that many incremental changes lead to the greater whole. 1 db here. 1/2 db there. And you got a bunch of dbs.

I do like the focus on attacking noise at its source (frame, tires, suspension) rather than or in addition to noise barriers.

https://www.wired.com/2017/03/fight-wrap-cheapo-cars-luxurious-silence/

Whatever thou taketh away in the beginning, thou has less work to do later.


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

I dumped a bunch of money into my car and I know my limiting factor is the glass, suspension, and engine.

There's no way to overcome wind noise or window thickness. Buy the quiet car to begin with, rather than waste your money to try to make it something it wasn't designed to be.


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

Bizarroterl said:


> Ronin,
> I used CLD and Cascade VB3 to sound deaden my C7 Corvette. How well did it work? My wife says it is quieter than her RC350 Lexus and she's right. I find it a little disconcerting how quiet it is.


I used CLD, Kollosus, and butyl rope with VB2 and VB4. I didn't use the VB3 because I don't really have a huge trans tunnel in the C6. I didn't think VB3 would fit since the console area is a super tight fit. Now when I installed the VB4, it all went down nice and flat. I know it made a huge difference because my doors used to be quieter than the flat areas (floor pan, hatch, waterfall, etc) so at the time, I didn't feel the need to install the VB2. I must admit, while I did measure the before and after my first go around, I didn't measure the after of my recent additions...yet. That will happen after I install the VB2 on the doors. I'm going to run VB2 and then run HMF in the door cards to quiet them to the same level as the floor...hopefully. That VB4 made a HUGE difference, and at some point I think I'm going to replace the hatch carpet with that block-it mat specifically for Corvettes. I think it weighs a touch more than the factory carpet but really is another level of MLV. But one thing is for certain...it's MUCH quieter than stock. I just wish I could run VB2 (or better yet 4) under the head liner. That's not something removable in the C6's because they're glued down.


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

I'm gonna look into going vb3 or vb4. For my passenger floor and wheel wells. How many pounds per square foot is it? Super soundproofing.com has 2lb per square foot ft mlv and lead sheeting.

What's the difference between vb3 and vb4? Looks to be same thickness and different weight?


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

What is a good result in terms of before and after measurement and what is considered to be quiet if you drive at 130kph on the highway 

My F10 535d measures 67dbs at 130kph and it’s pretty quiet and that’s stock....

Busy with a Fiat which has no deadening from factory so I have done the doors, roof gonna do the floors next and the do a after measurement to see how I managed to drop the road noise...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

K-pop sucks said:


> I'm gonna look into going vb3 or vb4. For my passenger floor and wheel wells. How many pounds per square foot is it? Super soundproofing.com has 2lb per square foot ft mlv and lead sheeting.
> 
> What's the difference between vb3 and vb4? Looks to be same thickness and different weight?


VB-3 is 1/64" lead sandwiched by 1/8" foam. VB-4 is mass loaded vinyl, with a single layer of foam.

2lb per square foot mlv would be 1/4" thick and extremely difficult to install. 2lb per square foot lead sheeting would be about 1/32" thick.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Elektra said:


> What is a good result in terms of before and after measurement and what is considered to be quiet if you drive at 130kph on the highway
> 
> My F10 535d measures 67dbs at 130kph and it’s pretty quiet and that’s stock....
> 
> ...


Making accurate measurements of road noise is extremely difficult. I have never seen a test that was really up to scientific standards. Ambient temps, road temps, ambient noise, wind direction and speed, and the path on the road you are taking (down to the inch) all affect your measurements.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Making accurate measurements of road noise is extremely difficult. I have never seen a test that was really up to scientific standards. Ambient temps, road temps, ambient noise, wind direction and speed, and the path on the road you are taking (down to the inch) all affect your measurements.




Well I took my laptop and used my AF mic on REW to measure while I was driving - it won’t be 100% as you mentioned but I am sure I can measure it within a certain degree of accuracy 

I know it won’t be BMW quietness levels but if I can get it to say 70dbs then I would be impressed - using REW I can measure the entire spectrum but road noise is typically between 700hz to 1400hz - I am not expecting much reduction under 700hz 

But a 8 - 12db reduction might be satisfactory - my preliminary tests using pink noise suggested a 18db drop in SPL using 2 sheets of deadener and MLV (not Damplifier Pro stuff something less effective) so reduction is achievable...

I know some guys here use CLD and then use cheap blankets (dog blankets) on top of it and get a decent reduction in noise - I may explore that option as well... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

https://youtu.be/bIlt_NtX2e8


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

I still find it crazy how noisy my cabin gets just by removing the rear passenger and hatch trim and floor partition/carpet.

I've got the whole rear hatch lined with 1lb sq inch MLV as well as the whole inner passenger compartment and I feel like the interior trim makes a bigger impact!

I'll stuff the quarter panels and hatch tomorrow with thinsulate 600sl and see if it makes a difference.


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

The key to silence is acoustic glass/ dual pane and a 3rd door seal/s.

Cars I looked at:
Ls400
Ls430
Ls460

Kia k900 

Lincoln Town car 

Lexus es

Acura RLX

Lincoln Continental

The quietest car will be front wheel drive with a v6. Acoustic windows and 3rd door seal with low drag coefficient and lots of sound deadening.

Best options are:
Lexus es
Acura RLX
Lincoln Continental


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Once you're driving the right car, get some pirelli p7s or Bridgestone Serenity's. The quietest tires on the market.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

In another forum I saw where someone used expanding foam for their "sound deadening" project. I'm in shock. I just can't think of anything to say.....


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Bizarroterl said:


> In another forum I saw where someone used expanding foam for their "sound deadening" project. I'm in shock. I just can't think of anything to say.....


The right expanding foam can actually do a lot. Many luxury cars use it.

Were not talking spray foam, were talking 2 part polyurethane foam with densities greater than 2lbs per cubic foot.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

Great Stuff hardening foam?


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

I actually found a large block of foam behind/under the rear passenger seat. In a previous/older similar model, it was empty there.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Bizarroterl said:


> Great Stuff hardening foam?


Not Great Stuff. Great Stuff is about 0.5lbs per cubic foot, and air curing. If you fill a thick void, the center will never cure.

You need a two part polyurethane foam. Can get them between 2-16lbs per cubic foot, and they are chemically curing.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

It looked like they were using great stuff or something like it. Said it did a great job stopping rattles, which I'm sure is true.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm wondering if the formula for SPL can be leveraged here somehow...
2 x power = +3db in SPL

So maybe...
2 x MLV = -3db in SPL

No wait, maybe thats...
2 x (MLV + CCF) = -3db in SPL

Hell, I don't know... I suck at math anyway!


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Not Great Stuff. Great Stuff is about 0.5lbs per cubic foot, and air curing. If you fill a thick void, the center will never cure.
> 
> You need a two part polyurethane foam. Can get them between 2-16lbs per cubic foot, and they are chemically curing.


The Loctite Tite Foam is supposed to be 2lbs+ per sq ft. However it's still air curing.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

mumbles said:


> I'm wondering if the formula for SPL can be leveraged here somehow...
> 2 x power = +3db in SPL
> 
> So maybe...
> ...


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

rton20s said:


>


I had that exact commercial in mind when I typed that LOL!


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

There are loss factors for individual materials. But those go out the window when using them as part of a system.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Theslaking said:


> The Loctite Tite Foam is supposed to be 2lbs+ per sq ft. However it's still air curing.


I figured I'd ask the company instead of repeating internet hearsay.

Loctite just answered me. The density is 1.49-1.74 lbs./cubic ft.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I'd avoid anything air curing. 3M has some injectable two part foams, as does US Composites.


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Lexus engineers claim there quiet wheels drop noise by 10db alone. Honda and Acura have this type of technology too.


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## phroenips (Nov 20, 2018)

K-pop sucks said:


> Lexus engineers claim there quiet wheels drop noise by 10db alone. Honda and Acura have this type of technology too.


Wheels? Or Tires?

Not sure how wheels would make a difference, but if it's tires, Car and Driver found negligible difference on "acoustically insulated tires"

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...cally-insulated-tires-really-hush-road-noise/

Edit: durr, that article even mentions the Honda wheels


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