# My experience with the PXE-H650



## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

Well, this isn't going to be a relatively glowing review like it received from npdang. I received the unit a week and a half ago, but didn't get time to put it in until this past Sunday. Unit looks like your typicaly Alpine processor, as expected. Packaging is fine. Comes with the mic, IR sensor, and remote control. 

Now, I'm going to call Sunday a mulligan. The manual is at best awful in terms of describing how to do most things, and the why. After my working with it last night, I have no idea why it "behaved" so strangely on Sunday. It's almost like the F2 output from the processor just wasn't working. Here is what the setup would look like:

F1: Morel Intrega Ovation XO 4" coax run passively
F2: Dyn MW172
Sub: JL 12W6v2

PDX amps

I really couldn't get the damn thing to do anything right, so I yanked it after a bit and put the 3SIXTY.2 back in. I should note I also installed a new Peripheral CANBUS adapter for my Charger that would allow RCA outputs from the stock HU rather than having to use the high level outputs from the stock amp. This adapter has its own issue (a whine that just shows up for a portion of the volume range), but with the 3SIXTY.2 I had plenty of output and everything working right. So, I went ahead and grabbed the high level outputs from the stock amp and got my system back to where it was before putting the H650/adapter in. 

So, onto Monday:

After asking npdang a few questions and doing some more reading, decided to give the H650 another shot, but use the high level inputs. Install was easy (once again) and I was into the setup in no time. This time when I set it to 2 way network and set the xover point that is the HP for F1 and the LP for F2, both outputs were obviously working as the Morels and Dyns were all being powered. Whew, thank goodness. Ran though the rest of the setup and MultEQ, doing 5 positions about 2 inches apart on top of the drivers seat w/ headrest removed, much like npdang did. Get done...almost no volume.

Reset the H650 and this time set the level on the stock system quite a bit lower to trick the H650. Go through it all, and woohoo I have decent volume available! And that's about as good as it got for me. 

I did try to use my laptop to run MultEQ, but I couldn't get it to recognize the H650. Gave up after about 15 minutes of messing with it. If there is some specific procedure that needs to be done, the manual doesn't mention it.

Time alignment was set fine, but really no better than what I did by hand with the 3SIXTY.2. I expected it to be much more focused, but I'd call it equal at best. Crossovers were set at 80 Hz HP for the Dyns, and 80 Hz, 4th octave for the 12W6v2. I lowered the HP to 60 Hz.

Now, as for the sound...well, here is where I really just don't like it. It definitely brought out the midrange and did smooth some spots I have trouble with, but ugh is it hollow sounding to me. No midbass, no bass. I'm sure being able to select a modified curve would have helped, but it was LIGHTYEARS away from the impactful, fuller sounding midbass I and most people I know like. It did have very good snap, but at the expense of not even being able to tell if the sub was on. Boosting the level of the sub helped, but it made it seem really, really out of place. Still more sibilance than I'd like, and there is definitely a peak at 100 Hz. Pretty annoying considering how little output there is below that.

So, to be perfectly blunt, I hate this unit. It's really not easy to use and creates a decent soundstage at the expense of sapping all the "fun" factor of car audio out of it. If you're into pure critical listening in a car, ya might like it, but be prepared to do a good amount of working figuring out how to trick the processor, and then to do some more EQ'ing to get the response right. And if you like bass...at all...don't bother. It sounded like npdang got it to work more to his liking, but for something this automated, it shouldn't require this much work to get it to sound how a person might like. They MUST allow for people to choose different responses. If there is a way to do it manually, the manual doesn't talk about it.

Overall grade: D

Mine is heading back to Crutchfield tomorrow. I could tweak it some more and get it better I'm sure...but it ain't worth it considering my listening tastes and my fondness for the 3SIXTY.2. I don't consider myself a basshead by any means, and those who have listened to my vehicles would probably agree, but this unit just doesn't belong in my car.


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

Crap, I shoulda put this in the review area.


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

You sound bitter old man. Too bad to hear that it wasn't for you.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

sounds like whoever calibrated the prototype likes chilling to boring sounding music


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

TEAM SHIMANO/FALCON said:


> sounds like whoever calibrated the prototype likes chilling to boring sounding music


Or I'm simply not doing something right...but my results sound very, very similar to what npdang got out of it. I think if I could have been able to get the laptop to run the MultEQ I could have selected the bassier curve, but I have a feeling it wouldn't have been even close.


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

Or, drive to California, drop the car off my place, spend your days at Disneyland, and pick it up!


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

dual700 said:


> Or, drive to California, drop the car off my place, spend your days at Disneyland, and pick it up!


I would NEVER trust my car to a Laotian.


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

chadillac3 said:


> I would NEVER trust my car to a Laotian.


Aww come on..
Flame paints no likey?


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## oneiztoomany (Oct 1, 2007)

i purchased the h-650 as well and ended up returning it. wasn't impressed with it either...


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

oneiztoomany said:


> i purchased the h-650 as well and ended up returning it. wasn't impressed with it either...


Did it sound similar to what I've described?


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## BlueAc (May 19, 2007)

Guess that solves my mystery... 3Sixty.2 for me. Anybody know where I can one for cheap?


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## oneiztoomany (Oct 1, 2007)

chadillac3 said:


> Did it sound similar to what I've described?


sound was simliar to what you described and also required multiple tuning attempts to get it that good. in the end just wasn't what i was hoping for and i didn't like the fact that you were supposed to not use the HU volume knob and use the remote control instead.


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## oldschoolsq (Nov 29, 2006)

oneiztoomany said:


> sound was simliar to what you described and also required multiple tuning attempts to get it that good. in the end just wasn't what i was hoping for and i didn't like the fact that you were supposed to not use the HU volume knob and use the remote control instead.



How do you like the SPX-177REF's


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## oneiztoomany (Oct 1, 2007)

oldschoolsq said:


> How do you like the SPX-177REF's


mine are the older model and i like them MUCH better than the MB quartz i had before...


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

When you were using the rca inputs, did you have the switch set to pre-amp or aux in? I forget the name of that switch.

To get a higher output volume, you have to use the IR remote volume to crank the volume all the way up while your hu volume is maxed. That will allow you to use the hu volume control. I find the h650 outputs are pretty damn strong once you do this, at least comparable if not more so than my PPI dcx730 and definitely stronger than the 3sixty.2.

Setup and tuning shouldn't take more than 10 minutes once you're pro... and no more than 2 hours for a first time around.

I think the manual does suck horribly, but if you cover all the salient points I listed in my review I think the unit can sound fantastic.

The reason you're getting the hollow sound is that the unit overcompensates in the bass/mid region. You have to address this manually with the EQ, or it will sound rather bad. Same goes for the bass and tweeter level, which are generally not well balanced aurally. Rather easy fixes Imo... certainly easier than starting from scratch.


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

I set the switch to Aux-in. 

I did set the volume all the way to max using the IR remote, and this is after having the levels checked at first with the volume on my stock HU set to around 20/38, whereas I'd normally go up to about 30/38. I was able to get pretty good volume, but even then gains were decently higher than w/ the 3SIXTY.2. Maybe I just didn't get what you were talking about, but I did everything I could, and to get it truly loud enough the f'ing turn on/off noises were awful as the gains on my amp had to be set waaaaayyyyy too high.

As for the bass, it was lightyears away from what I would consider slightly tolerable. It made my MW172s seem like 3" drivers, and the sub like a 4". 

Either way, it's going back since I didn't find the actual eq'ing to be worth giving up everything else I actually liked about my stereo. BTW, I can't just turn the tweet down as I'm running the Morel Ing Ovat XO coax, and the tweeter is already set at the lowest level. Another failing of the unit, IMO.

I'd be shocked if even 1% of the general population even semi-liked it. Alpine whiffed on this one, and it hurts me to say that.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I feel your pain. I went through the same thing. I think it's useful if you got the time and patience to work through it, or you have a pro tune it for you (and I don't mean a shop  ) 

You can also adjust the input sensitivity on the unit... maybe it was too low?


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

Do you mean the input sensitivity for the aux input? Unless there is a setting somewhere in the menus, I didn't see anything else. I still hate it.  Calling Crutchfield today and dropping it off this afternoon. Hehe, kinda.


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## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

quitter... 


I've RARELY found a processor that I liked within the first few days. Everytime I find something that I don't like about it, till I get used to it.

Especially on the more automated units...


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

backwoods said:


> quitter...
> 
> 
> I've RARELY found a processor that I liked within the first few days. Everytime I find something that I don't like about it, till I get used to it.
> ...


Yeah, but there is only so much you can do with this one after it's set up. I totally understand what you're saying, but it was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo far away from what I expected that it wasn't worth the hassle. It actually helped confirm that I'm not as bad of a tuner as I thought if nothing else. Just like a little bit of midbass and bass, whereas this thing had absolutely none.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

There's a lil knob you can turn on the device with a small flathead that will adjust the input sensitivity 

Too bad you didn't live close by we probably could've had that thing up and running good in 30 mins.


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

npdang said:


> There's a lil knob you can turn on the device with a small flathead that will adjust the input sensitivity
> 
> Too bad you didn't live close by we probably could've had that thing up and running good in 30 mins.


Pardon Chad, he is a n00b.
If he lives close, I already kick his butt!


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

npdang said:


> There's a lil knob you can turn on the device with a small flathead that will adjust the input sensitivity
> 
> Too bad you didn't live close by we probably could've had that thing up and running good in 30 mins.


You mean the lil knob that I talked about before that adjusts the aux input level? The one that I set to the highest possible level when using the aux input? 

I really don't feel this unit is truly as capable as you seem to. I really don't think it could make a system sound like I, or most people on here, expect. I tried EVERYTHING that was able to be adjusted manually, and there simply isn't enough manual flexibility to make serious adjustments after the unit is done w/ the MultEQ. 

Everything that you mentioned in your review I've experienced, and I tried doing everything you did from changing the xover points, messing with the eq, resetting gains, etc...and it flat out didn't sound anything like I'd want in a car. Tried both the aux input and high level inputs, both of which worked smashingly with the 3SIXTY.2 in terms of getting the type of sound I expected.


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## Entityofme1 (Sep 15, 2005)

I had serious doubts about this unit from the very start. I really have a lack of confidence in a processor that EQ's automatically or adjusts without a person being directly involved and is at the mercy of what the processer decides you are supposed to hear. Everyone has different tastes and preferences and an EQ or processor which allows a user to personally adjust what frequencies they like higher/lower really only seems to be the logical solution for myself. Thats the beauty of a manual EQ/processor in that you leave your own "imprint" on it and not the outcome of a processor's brain designed to try and attempt empathy with your ears. In a way it takes alot of the DIYMA out of the hobby.


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## laalves (Sep 17, 2008)

Hi,

I have just registered to summ up my experience with the PXE-H650:

1 - The manual sucks;

2 - The software is ridiculous, in limiting the tweaking capabilities and, above all, by not letting you save your measurements in a file to later reload and tweak an download to the PXE at will;

3 - The resulting sound quality of the process is superb, I absolutely love it. I have orchestras, live gigs, wahtever dancing and playing in my dash and hood.

Now, what I think the trick is all about gains and volumes.

The first run I did, I was dismayed... The sound was ridiculously low, shallow, hollow, etc, imediately after the eq process. Then I noticed that after the eq procedure, the unit switches to very low volume that you need to raise with the remote. Ah! A bit better.

Then, I experimented with head unit volume, a Clarion MAX983HD. Max volume is 35, I tried anywhere from 15 to 35. Best results were with 25-27. Ah! A bit better even!

Then, amp gain. Do it by ear. I started with the PXE-H650 having to correct a 16dB spread (-8dB on the sub and +8dB in one of the rears), and now everything is within 2dB, just by ear. Ah! Now this is it!

Obviously, I had to do a lot of mic measurement runs in between.

Taking the risk of sounding like an anti-christ, My final setup used only 4 measurement positions, one for each seat. IMHO, that is more than enough. If you do a lot of measurements close together, the Audisey software will ignore that and take them as one.

The software instructions say that, measure only in listening positions.

And that's basically it.

I would love to use a proper software to be able to fine tweak some of the filters, like I do with REW 4.11 interfacing with my home theatre TAG McLaren AV32R-DP. Maybe Alpine will release an improved version...

Either way, this Room EQ concept is beyond the knowledge of most installers and many DIYers, that's why one sees threads discussing between CleanSweep, H701 and H650. These are COMPLETELY different devices, with completely different purposes. They cannot be compared.

BTW, my car kit is:

- Clarion MAX983HD, feeding speaker level (only ones available) into the:
- Alpine PXE-H650;
- Alpine PDX.4-150 #1 for the in dash speakers and door subs;
- Alpine PDX.4-150 #2 for the rear speakers and sub (two channels bridged for this one)
- in dash speakers: Focal 100KP components;
- door subs: Focal Utopia 13WS;
- rear speakers: Focal 100KP components
- rear subwoofer: 2 x Focal Utopia 13WS in the OEM box.

The door subs are crossed at 400Hz with the in-dash, using the H650, while the set being crossed at 80Hz to the sub in the rear and the rear speakers are crossed at 120Hz to the rear sub.

In all, the PXE-H650 is, IMHO opinion, an excellent piece of kit!


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## kelwin4age (Aug 22, 2008)

Stupid question. 

I'm looking at the manual for the 650, as I am about to purchase one. it says that you can adjust the eq, xover and t/a after the auto tuning to suit your tastes. Is this not possible, or just not easy and intuitive to use?

Kelwin


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## laalves (Sep 17, 2008)

kelwin4age said:


> Stupid question.
> 
> I'm looking at the manual for the 650, as I am about to purchase one. it says that you can adjust the eq, xover and t/a after the auto tuning to suit your tastes. Is this not possible, or just not easy and intuitive to use?
> 
> Kelwin


No, you can tune using the available options and it's easy to do. BUT, the software uses 512 filters to draw a curve and there'e nothing you can do at that stage, other than choosing one of four presets the software presents.

Afterwards, you can use 3 PEQ filters (bass, mid and high) to mess up with the results, and other things like sub volume. My issue with this software is that it doesn't let you influence more the automatic process, like choosing specific boosts or cuts in specific frequencies.

The other pitfall is that it will not do a confirmation run, to allow you to measure the results of the correction. If something is not to your liking, one should be able to go back and using the same measurements, do a little tweaking and then confirm again.

However, the end result is very good, and that's the most important.

After listening more, I have now decided to do another run and try the "flat" preset, without treble roll off as I did. I'm missing it now...

I may not ever end this process.....


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

laalves said:


> My issue with this software is that it doesn't let you influence more the automatic process, like choosing specific boosts or cuts in specific frequencies.


That's the whole point of Audyssey, though. Correction, not embellishment.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

chadillac3 said:


> *You mean the lil knob that I talked about before that adjusts the aux input level? The one that I set to the highest possible level when using the aux input? *
> 
> I really don't feel this unit is truly as capable as you seem to. I really don't think it could make a system sound like I, or most people on here, expect. I tried EVERYTHING that was able to be adjusted manually, and there simply isn't enough manual flexibility to make serious adjustments after the unit is done w/ the MultEQ.
> 
> Everything that you mentioned in your review I've experienced, and I tried doing everything you did from changing the xover points, messing with the eq, resetting gains, etc...and it flat out didn't sound anything like I'd want in a car. Tried both the aux input and high level inputs, both of which worked smashingly with the 3SIXTY.2 in terms of getting the type of sound I expected.


Is it possible the PAC device did not have enough gain and the input gain on the PXE could not make up for that low signal. Did it ever light the clip light when you ran the gain knob at the highest setting?


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## laalves (Sep 17, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> That's the whole point of Audyssey, though. Correction, not embellishment.


Couldn't agree more, it's exactly as TMreq that I use in my TMA AV32R-DP processor at home. However, in the TMA case one has a lot of authority over the process, in that you can run a check after the correction. There are always some peaks that you can try and perfect by hand, by changing one or more filter parameters.

Having said that, I love the effect and am totaly keeping it.

After my experience with the TMA processor, I became a firm believer in room correction, and whenever there's a 2.1 or more speaker setup, I find it a necessity. I don't use with my 2.0 work PC setup, for example


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Is it possible the PAC device did not have enough gain and the input gain on the PXE could not make up for that low signal. Did it ever light the clip light when you ran the gain knob at the highest setting?


It's been awhile, but yes, I had no problems getting it to clip...but keep in mind I was not using a PAC device but was using speaker level outputs to both the 3SIXTY.2 and the PXE-H650


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Is it possible the PAC device did not have enough gain and the input gain on the PXE could not make up for that low signal. Did it ever light the clip light when you ran the gain knob at the highest setting?


Yeah, I got it to clip. I think part of the problem I was trying to use it in a way it's normally not used.


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## texmur (Jul 22, 2008)

Hallo please which version of cd rom driver PXE H650 are you using?


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## manyhobbies (Dec 29, 2010)

I know this is a old post, but I am using the PXA-H600 model. Are these 2 models simular? I never have tried using the mic to stage. I like the way mine works, the only thing I don't like is how many bands you can actually change.
But overall I'm happy with mine. Russ


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