# E39 M5 Build - mostly old school



## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Hi all,

I'll be posting up this winter on my M5 build running old school high bias 'class A' amps and analog eq and crossovers. Updates to follow


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Equipment list:
Dynavin E39-N6 SatNav (currently running stock M-audio system)

Signal Chain - 
4V Preamp out immediately to Soundstream BLT (balanced line driver)
Phoenix Gold EQ230 (accepts balanced line IN, sends RCA out)
Adcom GFI-4600 2way crossover / line driver - 60Hz LP out (Adcom 5pin DIN) and 60Hz HP out (DIN to RCA conversion)
Phoenix Gold AX-406a 3way crossover - 60Hz+ IN (from GFI above), LP Out 60-750Hz, Bandpass Out 750-7.5kHz, HP Out 7.5kHz+ (All RCA outputs will go right to 2 Soundstream BLT4)

All signals end with balanced line connections at the amplifiers

Amps:
Adcom 4404 bridged (160x2) 60Hz down 
Soundstream Class A Picasso bridged (100x2) 60Hz to 750Hz
Soundstream Class A Picasso (25x4) 2Ch 750Hz to 7.5kHz, 2Ch 7.5kHz+

Drivers:
2 Soundstream Reference 10R's in stock location in IB setup
2 HAT L6v1 in stock door locations
2 BG Neo8's in custom dash panels
2 Infinity SEMIT in custom dash panels


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

fun. my last car was an e39 and i put L8s in the doors. lol!

will follow!

what do you have in mind for the custom dash piece?


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

benny z said:


> fun. my last car was an e39 and i put L8s in the doors. lol!
> 
> will follow!
> 
> what do you have in mind for the custom dash piece?



Awesome! How did you fit L8's?? Aren't they too deep? Maybe I should change my plans 
I have a template for the mdf panels sold online to fit the L6's... 

Here is my dash prototype, I've been warned it might sound like crap but I'm going to give it a go anyway


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

you may also like what i did to my e46:


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Lol just remembered I made this video way back then too. 

http://youtu.be/atJSS4hjeVU


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

You are going to love those 10R's in infinite baffle! I ran a pair IB in an 88' Cavalier on about the same power you have there. It sounded absolutely fantastic. It did not get very loud (by todays standards anyways), but it was very-VERY musical. Meaning music sounded like music, not bass.


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks, I've always been an SQ guy so I'm excited to hear that.... 
Btw, I picked up a GFA 4304 and 5450 (white) from you a few years back, small world


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Update - full testing of front stage about complete. Using stock M audio as midbass in doors (70-800) and subs (60 down).
Used my trusty spl meter and test disc to set polarities (only) right midbass needed to be flipped. Neo8s and SEMITS are out of phase with rest of the system as well. This was done via phase swiches at the PG crossover. PG 230eq used to flatten the curve. Extreme deadspot around 500 and peak around 2.5k were successfully tuned out.


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

The sound - very impressed so far. Very detailed and dynamic. Staging is rock solid and out on the hood. A little narrow but acceptable. No beaming that I can tell - sound doesn't change much if I move my head around. Mounting these sideways helped with this. 
2 Class A Picasso amps on 3way fronts


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Crappy pic. These face skyward, top of dash is about chin height


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## Staffordshire (Oct 1, 2011)

very similar to what i was doing to my e39. in the end i was running 8s in my doors the same way as you did and ribbons off axis in pillars. i wouldn`t run ribbons off axis, either on axis or some different tweeters that are actually good off axis. i know you think it sounds good now, but you will think different in some time. also since midbasses are a bit high and facing each other,there is a little bit of sound cancellation in listening position


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## Focused4door (Aug 15, 2015)

Staffordshire said:


> very similar to what i was doing to my e39. in the end i was running 8s in my doors the same way as you did and ribbons off axis in pillars. i wouldn`t run ribbons off axis, either on axis or some different tweeters that are actually good off axis. i know you think it sounds good now, but you will think different in some time. also since midbasses are a bit high and facing each other,there is a little bit of sound cancellation in listening position


At that location he isn't listening off axis, he is listening to reflected sound off the windshield. The lack of off axis response would actually be a benefit in that location.

Interested to see how it sounds.


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Correct, I am getting basically zero off axis sound, seems to be 100% reflection off of the glass. Quick RTA and some adjustments got me here


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

My biggest adjustments are increases at 80 (stock midbass for now, L6s soon) and 400-500 (running right midbass out of phase) and big decreases around 2-2.5k and again around 8-10k (xover point between Neo8s and SEMIT.
This tune is still sounding awesome on all of my reference material so far


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## CozzaP (Dec 7, 2015)

Cool build!


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## Teckjoel (Dec 26, 2010)

Awesome to see another E39-M owner. I'm getting ready to start on my M in a few weeks, Focal K2's in the front and rears, Kenwood 991, PXA-H800 and controller, 4 PDX's, and not sure weather I'm going to use Carbon C12XL's or 12w6s in the trunk yet.


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## ejeffrey (Oct 8, 2015)

Those doors should sound great - nice work!


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Teckjoel said:


> Awesome to see another E39-M owner. I'm getting ready to start on my M in a few weeks, Focal K2's in the front and rears, Kenwood 991, PXA-H800 and controller, 4 PDX's, and not sure weather I'm going to use Carbon C12XL's or 12w6s in the trunk yet.



Cool! IB or box on the subs? Would be a waste inmo to not go IB as the rear deck is very easy to seal off


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Brief update - still playing with the Neo8's. Rotated them 90 deg (along the axis of the car) and it cleaned up the hole in my stage. BG's white paper explains that they disperse better side to side, not well vertically.

On to my doors. After reading posts on Gary's Mercedes, I looked at the sealed box pods in the front doors. Stock they are 5.25" and I already knew I needed to go 6.5-7" to get down to 60-70Hz as desired. The biggest issue with the stock enclosures is depth - then I found SI's TM65's (I also have HAT L6's and a set of Arians). Using a dremel, a jigsaw, and some 2 part epoxy to seal in the gaps, I ended up with this

































After a brief test in the car, they sound very good. My goal now is to deaden the enclosure as much as possible - not sure how to do this beyond dynamat.... Gary mentioned this was critical for the performance of the sealed enclosures in his MB


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

Looks fun! My little brother has had a white '99 or 2000 540i M sport package or something for over 5 years with very little trouble despite his abusive driving style lol.

I considered those TM65s myself for my van (only 2.5" total depth) but had some ID OEM 6.5s to try first. I will say once you finally take the leap and break out the jigsaw and throw the sawzall on the doors, it really opens up possibilities.

I've heard the TM65s really pound!


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## stills (Apr 13, 2008)

This is badass!

When can we see the amps?


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## fig32 (Apr 22, 2014)

Looks good, hope those TM65s work out well for you. Love that version of the M5!


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks everyone!!
Of course my amp setup has evolved a bit. I'm trying to get my old SS DaVinci running and Gordon (amp doctor) has been a huge help in that area.
Here are some pics anyway


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

Mmmm, some nice amps there indeed.


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks, while I'm working on the Davinci, I'm running the Adcom 4304 (30 x 4 very underrated) on just the TM65s and the Neo8s. 
Using analog processing still playing around with the tune sans subs. Reading and learning a lot...
RF 3.sixty.3 will eventually be installed with the Davinci - so much for all old school... the claimed benefits of dsp are too great to overlook. EQ is 2x31band PG. Peak at 40 is engine running


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

Nice amps and interesting mid/high driver choice


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks, why interesting?

Worth noting by crossover F3 between them is around 700-750Hz. My goal was to put a wideband (that can handle real world power) as far away from my ears as possible without cutting the interior. Kickpanels were out due to my clutch/dead pedal.
I really wish I could run the Neo8's down to 400-500 Hz (for imaging) but power handling will go way down and they really need a largish enclosure or dipole to play that low. I will have them in an enclosure about 1/4" deep.



LBaudio said:


> Nice amps and interesting mid/high driver choice


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

In my youth, Soundstream SS10R was my dream sub. Can't wait to see pics of it.


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## fig32 (Apr 22, 2014)

I forgot how big those Adcom amps are! Had a pair of those when they first came out and loved them. Looking forward to more progress as you continue this build.


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

teldzc1 said:


> In my youth, Soundstream SS10R was my dream sub. Can't wait to see pics of it.


Mine too, I remember them as the 'velvet hammer'  

I actually collected 4 of them over the past 3 years or so. 2 of them are a little rough looking but sound fine (I'll use these first) and the other 2 are near mint. I'll post some pics soon.


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

fig32 said:


> I forgot how big those Adcom amps are! Had a pair of those when they first came out and loved them. Looking forward to more progress as you continue this build.


Yes they are huge, I would love to run all 3 bridged up but they would take up way too much space (I'm going IB to preserve some utility, my other car is a S2000). They would also idle at around 18amps and I'm not trying to upgrade any electrical hardware on the car. 

Once I have the DSP in place, I will probably wire everything on quick connects so I can change out amps quickly and play around


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

DaVinci is back! Needs a quick clean and polish.
Added some diy lighting to mimic the original version of the amp (blue board). They removed the lighting later on as the cost cutting demise began at Soundstream.









I love that the TM65s are dual vc. At 2 ohms, the midbass section of the amp puts out 200 x 2. I've realized I need this power because the 65s are really not designed for a small sealed enclosure. My calculations have the boxes tuned to around 140Hz!
So U'm boosting a bit at 80 to compensate and am glad I have the extra oomph. Also glad the 65s can handle the extra juice


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

I have these posted in another thread but thought I'd add them here too.
The neo8s are back to their original horizontal placement at the dash/windshield junction. This causes:
-better/easier installation
-better staging 
-more comb filtering 
I've been able to eq most of the response issues out. Tonality is very good by my ear.
Delaying the L ch by 40cm has resulted in pretty good staging for an early tune. I'm now confident to move forward with putting the panels back on the doors (after adding a little cld and ccf) and creating frames for the neo8s and wrapping in cloth to hide them a bit. 

Peak around 40Hz is engine running

Left front (null at 500)









Right front (nulls around 2k and 4k)









Together









With Subs


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

SS 10R's as promised. These are the clean pair


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## gw2405 (Jul 4, 2017)

loving this thread, any updates?
magnificent car too!


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