# Disappointed with my JL 10W6v2.



## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

My system consists of the following:

Vehicle: 2013 Honda CR-V
H/U: Factory
Line Driver: Audio Control LC6i
Amplifier: Alpine PDX V9 (100w x 4 + 500w x 1)
Speakers: JBL MS 62C for the front and rear
Subwoofer: JL Audio 10W6v2 in a sealed enclosure

The sound from the components is very bright and somewhat harsh. I can adjust the tweeter on the crossover but when I move it to -3, the speakers seem lifeless. The JL Audio 10W6v2 sounds like a low-end JL with a 100 watt amp on it. I built the box to JL Audio sealed enclosure specs. Internal volume nets to 0.625 ft^3 after woofer displacement and bracing. I even used two layers of MDF on all sides and added some fiberglass resin on the inside to make sure it's completely sealed. I took my car in to a local stereo shop and he agreed that there was something wrong with the setup. He said the system sounded good but sounded very entry level and nowhere near what it should sound like. 

So, I am here to ask for some advice as to what it could be. Could the factory head unit really be causing that much of an issue? I thought the LC6i would clear up the weak signal. Should I consider using the JL HD900/5 instead. Is the sealed box really hindering the performance of the sub to this extent? The stereo shop wants to charge me $60 an hour to diagnose what's wrong. I'm hesitant to pay it.

My previous car, Scion xD, had a JL Audio 500/5 with 250 watts going to power 2 10W3v2's in a small sealed enclosure. They were materially louder, especially on the low notes. I was running it off the upgraded factory deck that had preamp outputs.

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)




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## goshred025 (Dec 6, 2012)

My guess is the box is to small for the sub. I just build a 1ft^3 sealed box after displacement with poly fill and it seems to sounds good. It more punchy and lacks bottom end when I compare it to the JL H.O. box it was originally in. Also I lost a lot of spl from switching from ported to sealed. This is running off a Jl 900/5 hd amp.


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## MLS (Nov 13, 2008)

Can you plug in an mp3 player or somthing similar directly into the amp with an rca adapter? Use the volume control on the player to see if there is a noticable difference.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

"My guess is the box is to small for the sub. I just build a 1ft^3 sealed box after displacement with poly fill and it seems to sounds good. It more punchy and lacks bottom end when I compare it to the JL H.O. box it was originally in. Also I lost a lot of spl from switching from ported to sealed. This is running off a Jl 900/5 hd amp."

JL Audio's website specifies that the woofer be placed in a 0.625 ft^3 sealed enclosure so that's what I built it to. I don't think the woofer parameters allow for a 1.0 ft^3 enclosure. I know it seems small but they are designing them that way now. May I ask why you switched to a sealed enclosure? Also, are you happy with HD900/5 and did you compare it with the Alpine PDX V9?

"Can you plug in an mp3 player or somthing similar directly into the amp with an rca adapter? Use the volume control on the player to see if there is a noticable difference."

Never thought of doing that. Would there be enough signal strength to do that? It wouldn't hurt to try it out. Thanks!


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## jking29 (Jan 6, 2008)

Agreed.^ The factory head unit might roll off the low end.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Has to be the enclosure because an running a pair if 12w6v2 in a turbo bass ported probox with only 300 watts TOTAL and they are very freaking loud. Louder than my previous install which had a pair of mtx 5500 10" in a ported enclosure with 600 watts which got pretty loud but no where near the jl's. But that would not be a fair comparison.


But the factory hu could be the culprit.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Could be a couple of things. The sub and mids are out of phase and / or the 600-800 and then 2-8khz range is too loud. Typically happens in cars. You mention that the sound is very bright.

try reversing the polarity of the MB or the sub and see if that helps. If your stock hu has an eq try cutting some at the frequencies I mentioned.


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## MLS (Nov 13, 2008)

You may already know this, but shut power off to the amp even when unplugging rca's.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

"Agreed.^ The factory head unit might roll off the low end."

Is this a known problem in Honda's? I could see why they would do this. Would the LCI 6i not compensate for some of that or would I need to get a line output converter with bass restoration? The guy at the stereo shop said he's installed systems in Honda's using the factory deck and LC6i and they sound great. So confusing. I've installed many stereos for myself and for friends and this one, by far, is the biggest disappointment. So confused. Thanks for the suggestions!


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

"Has to be the enclosure because an running a pair if 12w6v2 in a turbo bass ported probox with only 300 watts TOTAL and they are very freaking loud. Louder than my previous install which had a pair of mtx 5500 10" in a ported enclosure with 600 watts which got pretty loud but no where near the jl's. But that would not be a fair comparison.


But the factory hu could be the culprit."

It's quite possible it's the box but to cut output to the extent that it can barely keep up with the mids and highs is quite shocking. I've heard the W6 in a ported box and it was surprisingly loud. I don't know if you would notice the bass from this thing if it were in a trunk. I just remembered that I have a 12" ported sub in my basement. I'm going to put that in and see if it's any louder. I totally forgot about that thing. I still have my JL 500/5 that I could hook up to see if it's the amp.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

That sub should have plenty of kick in a box that size with 500w, the issue is most likely something else really simple.


Where are you picking up the inputs for the LC6i? My guess is that the polarity is backwards somewhere in the chain.


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## goshred025 (Dec 6, 2012)

J1Gold16 said:


> "JL Audio's website specifies that the woofer be placed in a 0.625 ft^3 sealed enclosure so that's what I built it to. I don't think the woofer parameters allow for a 1.0 ft^3 enclosure. I know it seems small but they are designing them that way now. May I ask why you switched to a sealed enclosure? Also, are you happy with HD900/5 and did you compare it with the Alpine PDX V9?"


1.0 ft^3 roughly gives me .7 qtc for the sealed enclosure according to the specs of the 10w6v2. Changing to a sealed enclosure was due to the limited space in a tacoma access cab. the HD900/5 is my 2nd amp I've ever owned so I cant compare it to much other amps. But when space is limited this is a great amp.


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## jking29 (Jan 6, 2008)

J1Gold16 said:


> "Agreed.^ The factory head unit might roll off the low end."
> 
> Is this a known problem in Honda's? I could see why they would do this. Would the LCI 6i not compensate for some of that or would I need to get a line output converter with bass restoration? The guy at the stereo shop said he's installed systems in Honda's using the factory deck and LC6i and they sound great. So confusing. I've installed many stereos for myself and for friends and this one, by far, is the biggest disappointment. So confused. Thanks for the suggestions!


Have you tried plugging a different source into the amp? It would be a lot simpler to do before you haul a sub and enclosure out of the basement to check. Just work your way up the chain.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

Chaos said:


> That sub should have plenty of kick in a box that size with 500w, the issue is most likely something else really simple.
> 
> 
> Where are you picking up the inputs for the LC6i? My guess is that the polarity is backwards somewhere in the chain.


I tapped into the wire for the speakers coming right off the factory deck. I'm almost 100% sure that polarity is fine throughout the system but I'm not going to throw that out as a possibility. I agree with you about the sub. That thing is a beast and should be performing like one.



goshred025 said:


> 1.0 ft^3 roughly gives me .7 qtc for the sealed enclosure according to the specs of the 10w6v2. Changing to a sealed enclosure was due to the limited space in a tacoma access cab. the HD900/5 is my 2nd amp I've ever owned so I cant compare it to much other amps. But when space is limited this is a great amp.


Does your 10w6v2 pound your chest hard with the beat of a drum? My 10W6 has very little kick. I'm not expecting it to be so loud that you can't breathe anymore. Though I'm expecting it to sound louder than a 10" kicker shallow mount sub.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

jking29 said:


> Have you tried plugging a different source into the amp? It would be a lot simpler to do before you haul a sub and enclosure out of the basement to check.


In a previous post someone suggested I use my MP3 player to plug directly into the amp. I will try that and see if that helps.


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

You should definitely try reversing the phase on the subwoofer to see if it blends in better with the rest of your system.

I agree with going to a bigger box. My 10W6's came in the JL Prowedge box. I've had a pair of these before, as well as a 12W6, and a 13W6. All were nice sounding subs. The problem this time around was that they were lacking in sound and output when compared to the last time I had a set. The only difference was the box. While the JL box was a nice box and left more room in my trunk, it was too small. I now have them in a bigger box, with polyfill, and they sound much better. They extend much lower than before. 

A few years back JL gave a range of enclosure sizes for their W6 line. The 10W6v2 was from .625 up to 1 cubic foot I believe. The minimum enclosure size allows for higher power handling. I remember their original power rating was 400 watts RMS.

Did you use any polyfill in your enclosure?


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

1996blackmax said:


> You should definitely try reversing the phase on the subwoofer to see if it blends in better with the rest of your system.
> 
> I agree with going to a bigger box. My 10W6's came in the JL Prowedge box. I've had a pair of these before, as well as a 12W6, and a 13W6. All were nice sounding subs. The problem this time around was that they were lacking in sound and output when compared to the last time I had a set. The only difference was the box. While the JL box was a nice box and left more room in my trunk, it was too small. I now have them in a bigger box, with polyfill, and they sound much better. They extend much lower than before.
> 
> ...


I did not use any polyfill. I will go buy some of that today. I do remember JL had a range of sizes for their woofers. I wish they would still do that. Assuming everything is setup correctly, they are really doing themselves a disservice by posting that as the recommended enclosure size. I was just afraid of going too big. I read some reviews of people having too big of an enclosure and the sub would bottom out. If needing to build a new enclosure, I think that I may just go ported. It really upsets me that the stereo shop wants to charge me $60 to diagnose why this sub sounds like crap. If they come back to tell me my enclosure is too small, I'm not paying it. There are basic things that one should know about the products you sell. I did have this thing hooked up to a friends 750 watt kicker amp to see if it worked (before I had my amp installed) and it sounded very tame. It was sitting on the seat of his truck and distortion would set in before it got loud. His 10" Kicker shallow mount CVR sub, which was behind the seat, blew the W6 out of the water in terms of output. Of course, the W6 had better sound quality, which is my primary goal, but when your bass feels thin and lacks authority, that won't do. 

Today I am able to start my own diagnosis. Here's what I'm planning on doing.

- Reverse the polarity of the sub.
- Hook up another source to the amp via RCA's to see if the LC6i or the head unit is the issue.
- Install a different subwoofer to see if it sounds like I remembered. If it sounds terrible, then it's either my amp, line converter, or factory head unit causing the issues.
- Install my JL 500/5

Anyone here have anything to add to the diagnosis?


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## evangojason (Feb 12, 2010)

Since you ran it in your friends truck with same results I'd say you already figured it out. Did you buy the sub from the shop you took your car to? Try to borrow a box with the same sub in and do some comparison. I have a JL13W3 in a box build to JL's specs and it sounded how you described. Polyfill helped a lot but wish I would have gone bigger or ported.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Based on his description of how his component set sounded in addition.....I would doubt its the sub. I would start at the source and work your way back.....Or you could just knock off the simple to get to stuff first I suppose...my guess is its source area related or amp.....kinda unlikely that its all 5 channel issues and still "functioning" though....right? Sounds like exceptionally weak output voltage to me?


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## goshred025 (Dec 6, 2012)

J1Gold16 said:


> Does your 10w6v2 pound your chest hard with the beat of a drum? My 10W6 has very little kick. I'm not expecting it to be so loud that you can't breathe anymore. Though I'm expecting it to sound louder than a 10" kicker shallow mount sub.


 No the 10w6 does not pound my chest hard. I believe its the position i have the sub in the cab facing the center counsel. But the jl can still get pretty loud in the new enclosure. Previously I had a 10" memphis slimline sub and the JL10w6 is way louder given the same air space. 
But I believe if you put it in the correct size ported box you may get what your looking for. In the H.O box their was definitely more of a kick that your looking for as well as comparing it to my brothers 2x 12" mtx subs that were in a sealed pre made box. The JL beat them in sounding louder, more clear, and able to dig lower. Then again the H.O box is almost the same size a the 2x12"s box.


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

I went from my 13W6 to these subs now. It was also in a bigger enclosure than what they now recommend for it, almost 2 cubic feet sealed. While I knew they were not going to have as much authority on the lower notes as the bigger W6, they just sounded off to me. I began trying to tweak things a bit, but still was not satisfied. I knew how they could sound as I had them before. Then I remembered I had gone with a bigger box back then. 

The JL Prowedge box came with a lot of polyfill. It is 0.625 cubic feet per side after the subwoofer's displacement. Even with all that polyfill it did not sound as good as it does now in the bigger enclosure.


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## necrophidious (Aug 14, 2007)

MLS said:


> Can you plug in an mp3 player or somthing similar directly into the amp with an rca adapter? Use the volume control on the player to see if there is a noticable difference.


This. I've never had any success taping a factory headunit and getting anything usably decent from it. If I could only change one thing on a factory setup, it would always be the headunit. Let us know what you find.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

To tell the truth, I normally would not expect an average 10 inch subwoofer in a small sealed box to play deepest bass well without additional processing. Even if subwoofer box has qtc of 0.7 or so, the -3dB frequency is usually 5-10 Hz higher than what you get with a comparable 12 inch subwoofer. The way to correct this is to boost low frequencies, but you need a good equalizer. Of course, the subwoofer also is in the danger of bottoming out because you need quite a bit of excursion to play the lowest frequencies with authority. 


If you can build/buy a custom ported box, the best solution is to put the sub into a low tune ported enclosure and see what happens. This will improve the low end and also the overall sensitivity. Of course, it can be rather inconvenient having to go from a 0.5 cu ft enclosure to a box with 1.5cu ft external dimensions.


The factory head units are not unknown for attenuating the low frequencies, specially if these were to be sent to normal speakers. I think you could test this by _carefully_ taking AC voltage measurements of your source while playing a variety of test tones.

Being out of phase should not be a problem in this case. A speaker being out of phase with other speaker can only cause cancellation issues AT the crossover frequency and near it. However, at the deep bass frequencies, only subwoofer is playing. 

Also, check all the subsonic filters. You don't want to use one at all.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

If you didn't have a transfer function in your car you might be right but realistically for true reference quality bass you're going to EQ the piss out of either sub turning the bass WAY down. You'll just turn it down less on the 10". If you want a street system, a pair of ported 10s will keep most people happy.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Why not check if your tweeters are in phase with your mids? I know this can make your system more lively and blend better. Who knows, you might be looking @ the wrong culprit... 
Bright and harsh tells me something is not setup correctly

Kelvin


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## mkeets (Oct 6, 2011)

I hate to even ask it but the W6's are D4 (DVC 4 Ohm) subs do you have them wired in parallel? Sounds like you might have them in series to give you a final impedance of 8 ohms.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I figured out the problem with the subwoofer. The enclosure is too small and the factory deck was not helping the issue either. Tried another subwoofer and it performed how I remembered. I went ahead and bought a JBL MS-8 and the sub section sounds a whole lot better. I'm most likely going to build a bigger box and maybe port it but this will do for now. The MS-8 really helped cut down on the harsh sound I was experiencing in my vehicle and the imaging is outstanding! However, when I have it turned up it sounds very processed. I'm taking it in tomorrow to see if they can tune it to my liking. This project is interesting to say the least.


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## evangojason (Feb 12, 2010)

From the few pictures you posted in this thread I'd like to see the rest of the build. Do you have a build log or more photos?


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

I can post some pictures later on. I have a really busy week at work so this project will have to be put on hold. Last night I set the EQ on the MS-8 and it really did wonders to the sound. 31 bands of EQ will do that. However, all of that processing power and EQ is only good if the unit will stay on. It was randomly shutting off last night while tuning it in my driveway. This morning, on my way to work, it shut off and never came back on. I'm having extreme buyers remorse at this point and wish I would have just left the factory setup and added a small sub. I've never done factory integration before and I was assured in the beginning that it would sound great. Though skeptical, I went ahead with it. Those that gave me assurance must not know what good sound is. Crap in, crap out. That's my biggest issue. Thinking of getting an AudioControl LCQ-1. Cheaper, smaller, and I'm hoping more reliable. Also considering the JL Audio Clean Sweep. Again, thanks for all the suggestions and help. If you have any questions for me, let me know.


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## sympley (Oct 21, 2012)

hmmm, you are scaring me a bit. I am planning to improve my 2012 Acura TL sound system with the ESL sound system and will also be keeping my stock head unit, kind of have to. I was hoping for a simple upgrade but it is starting to sound like I will also need a DSP etc to make it work.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

sympley said:


> hmmm, you are scaring me a bit. I am planning to improve my 2012 Acura TL sound system with the ESL sound system and will also be keeping my stock head unit, kind of have to. I was hoping for a simple upgrade but it is starting to sound like I will also need a DSP etc to make it work.


I'm going to try out the new Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty. I'll let you know if that improves the sound. I thought I could get by with just a line driver however, it is clear to me that I need a device with an EQ to flatten out the factory signal. The 3Sixty should accomplish that. It should arrive next week. I'll let you know how it sounds and give a comparison between the 3Sixty and the MS-8. I'm probably going to return the JL Audio 10W6v2 in for 2 JL Audio 10W3v3's and go ported with the box. I could try the W6 in a ported box but I already know I like the W3's. No sense in building more boxes than necessary.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

HAve you changed the box?? 

If you haven't changed the box, don't go swapping processors... (Edit: just saw the MS8 acting wonky, my comments still stand, besides that)

More often than NOT, people who are unhappy with thier new sub, have the wrong box... 


No sense in building more boxes like the FIRST, than necessary... but if you build a simple box and it doesn't work, big woop... 

Just because JL recomends xx.xxCF box doesn't mean it's going to work in your car.. 

My guess is box is too small/critically damped..


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

JL's recommendations usually are a little on the small side.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Just make a ported box with size and volume meant for the sub and call it the day....


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

kyheng said:


> Just make a ported box with size and volume meant for the sub and call it the day....


JL's website calls for the 10W6v2 to be put in a .70 ft^3 ported enclosure. That's not much bigger than the sealed and some people have went as large as 1 ft^3 in a sealed. I emailed JL Audio for an acceptable range of enclosure sizes (don't want to go too big) and they are ignoring me. I don't have much time with the holidays so if I can swap out the W6 for two W3's, I may as well do that rather than cross my fingers in hopes that a ported W6 will sound good.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

No, not recommended size. Model it in WinISD.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> No, not recommended size. Model it in WinISD.


I've never used WinISD. Is it easy to learn? Where do I download it? Where can I go to learn more about it so I don't blow up this thread with off topic items. I'm really good at the construction part. The designing part using TS parameters is out of my league for now.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

J1Gold16 said:


> JL's website calls for the 10W6v2 to be put in a .70 ft^3 ported enclosure. That's not much bigger than the sealed and some people have went as large as 1 ft^3 in a sealed. I emailed JL Audio for an acceptable range of enclosure sizes (don't want to go too big) and they are ignoring me. I don't have much time with the holidays so if I can swap out the W6 for two W3's, I may as well do that rather than cross my fingers in hopes that a ported W6 will sound good.


If you have an EQ, you can never go too big  

Kelvin


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

J1Gold16 said:


> JL's website calls for the 10W6v2 to be put in a .70 ft^3 ported enclosure. That's not much bigger than the sealed and some people have went as large as 1 ft^3 in a sealed. I emailed JL Audio for an acceptable range of enclosure sizes (don't want to go too big) and they are ignoring me. I don't have much time with the holidays so if I can swap out the W6 for two W3's, I may as well do that rather than cross my fingers in hopes that a ported W6 will sound good.


You lost the sub's compression, that's your problem you need to solve... Last time I was on sealed also for my sub but it is just pretty hard to get it right...
Also, you need to feed the sub close to double of the power while ported you only need 10-100% from the sub's rated power...


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## blazeplacid (May 19, 2008)

I have my 10" w6v2 in a .9 cube box and it sounds great.

Its feeding it around 400 rms


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

blazeplacid said:


> I have my 10" w6v2 in a .9 cube box and it sounds great.
> 
> Its feeding it around 400 rms


I'm pretty sure the box was too small. It's beyond me why JL Audio would recommend such a small enclosure if it's going to make your woofer sound like garbage. Hopefully this thread will be useful to someone building an enclosure for their W6v2. 0.625 cubic feet is too small. Everyone seems to be happy with their woofers when the enclosure is around 1.0 cubic foot. I went ahead and returned the 10 W6v2 and bought 4 8W3v3's. I'm going to go ported this time around and build my box bigger than what JL Audio recommends. 0.35 cubic feet ported seems small, even for an 8". I'm aiming for .5 to .75 cubic feet per sub. Tuning it around 32 Hz. I will post some pics when complete. Haven't had much free time with the holidays.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

I spent all last night learning how to use WINisd. I understand it is not perfect science but here are my conclusions. A 1.0 cubic foot sealed box only produced slightly more low end extension and spl than the 0.625 cubic foot sealed box. When I switched to a 1.75 cubic foot ported box tuned to 25 Hz, output increased substantially on the low end. Some frequencies experienced as much a a 6 decibel gain. Lesson learned. For the 8W3v3, WINisd recommends 1.0 cubic foot for a ported enclosure as opposed to the 0.35 cubic feet that JL recommends. The response curve is much more pleasing to the eyes, though not as loud in a small frequency range. Am I missing something here? The difference in the graphs is material. Can I blow the woofer by going to big with the box? Xmax and port velocity are in check and each sub will only be getting 150 watts. Another question I have, the design I have laid out is for a common chamber. Should I redesign it to have separate chambers?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

You also have to remember about your cabin gain. If you simply go for the largest enclosure yes it'll be more efficient down low but oyu might not WANT that. 

Also, why didn't you call JL instead of emailing? You'd have had an answer instantly. I'm not sure what you've gained with the 8s vs. the 10 other than volume as the W6 is a noticeably better sounding sub.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> You also have to remember about your cabin gain. If you simply go for the largest enclosure yes it'll be more efficient down low but oyu might not WANT that.
> 
> Also, why didn't you call JL instead of emailing? You'd have had an answer instantly. I'm not sure what you've gained with the 8s vs. the 10 other than volume as the W6 is a noticeably better sounding sub.


I give up.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

J1Gold16 said:


> I give up.


Why? 

Kelvin


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

subwoofery said:


> Why?
> 
> Kelvin


Every single part of this stereo upgrade has turned out to be a disappointment. I was hoping the 8's would sound better and louder. I'm not sure what frequencies cabin gain will affect so I am totally clueless on that point. Thought I was making a step forward with 4 8's, now it seems I've made a step back in more ways than one.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

No....your not taking steps backwards.....just sideways. First of all....NOTHING wrong with a JL recommended enclosure. NEVER had any such issues with one to spec. Which leads me to wonder about the box design.....I'm also confused? Didnt you say at one point you had some work done from a local shop? Or were they helping you with something? (suppose I could re-read?) If so.....why not just go have them figure it out? Sometimes all it takes is a second set of eyes or ears to pick up something so simple you just always assume is fine? 

No reason whatsoever that your system as described (parts) shouldnt meet or exceed your expectations!


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## blazeplacid (May 19, 2008)

Car audio is one of those things that is never done.
You can always improve something.
And then every now and again something catches your eye and you want it!

Dont give up. 
This is a DIY site.
Tons of trial and error.
I dont think anyone has ever just installed something and said "I love my entire set up"


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

rexroadj said:


> No....your not taking steps backwards.....just sideways. First of all....NOTHING wrong with a JL recommended enclosure. NEVER had any such issues with one to spec. Which leads me to wonder about the box design.....I'm also confused? Didnt you say at one point you had some work done from a local shop? Or were they helping you with something? (suppose I could re-read?) If so.....why not just go have them figure it out? Sometimes all it takes is a second set of eyes or ears to pick up something so simple you just always assume is fine?
> 
> No reason whatsoever that your system as described (parts) shouldnt meet or exceed your expectations!


I have spent a tremendous amount of time with a shop that sold me the JBL MS 62C's and JBL MS-8. We tuned and tweaked the MS-8 but could never get the sound I was looking for. The bass did improve some while using the MS-8, however the mids and highs sound very processed and thin. I got the MS-8 to help with imaging. Now that I am returning it, they suggested I get another set of components and place the tweeters in the center vents to help bring the sound to the center. Not sure if I should put the left center tweeter to the right or left of the radio and same with the other side. Hopefully I explained that good enough.

I wanted more cone area so that is why I went with the 8's. I'm going ported to get a little more punch from them. Seeing as they are 8's, I don't think they should be sluggish on any quick bass notes. I'm crossing my fingers in hopes that this works.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

J1Gold16 said:


> I wanted more cone area so that is why I went with the 8's. I'm going ported to get a little more punch from them. Seeing as they are 8's, I don't think they should be sluggish on any quick bass notes. I'm crossing my fingers in hopes that this works.


Which answered my question a lot better than "I give up." 

"Speed" has nothing to do with cone size. 

With 2 cubes available I'd probably go for 4 8s as well. It's a good setup. However, the .35-.5 resommended sealed size is VERY common for 8s nowadays. The Arc 8 sounds AWESOME in .35cf sealed.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> With 2 cubes available I'd probably go for 4 8s as well. It's a good setup. However, the .35-.5 resommended sealed size is VERY common for 8s nowadays. The Arc 8 sounds AWESOME in .35cf sealed.


WINisd recommended going 4 cubic feet ported tuned to 30Hz. It had a really flat curve that extended a lot lower than JL's recommendation of 0.35 cubic feet ported tuned to 35 Hz. I think this is where cabin gain comes in but I am not sure. I'm guessing I would need to take the sum of the two effects to determine how it will sound in my car. Not sure what it is in a small SUV.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Right, but that's because WinISD can't show it in a room the size of a car. If you factor in cabin gain you'll see how smaller enclosures work in a car but not your living room.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

I posted this elsewhere and figured I'd post it here as well since you guys are somewhat familiar with my setup.


I am contemplating whether it is worth spending an extra $450 to step up to the Alpine M6 (600W x 1) and the F6 (150W x 4). Also, will my car be able to handle that much current draw? This is why I'm considering the the F4 (100W x 4). I don't want to upgrade any wiring (4 AWG) or replace the stock battery. I want a little extra power reserve for the speakers to draw from. Two power supplies will also be a plus. Input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

You'll be fine with the larger amps. The reserves might not be necessary, but are nice to have.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

The Crutchfield adviser stated that I will need to upgrade my 4 AWG wire to 1/0 AWG if I decide to do two amps. The combination of those two amps equals 140 amps. A 150 amp fuse came with my amp kit. Not sure if I want to run 1/0 AWG. Is there any legitimacy in his statement or is he just trying to sell me something else. I discovered that my current power wire is 40% copper covered aluminum so I will most likely upgrade that to 100% copper wire.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Do you really believe both amps will be making full power all the time? Answer that and you'll know what you need.


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## co_leonard (Aug 14, 2009)

IMHO, if you have the extra cash as well as the extra time to do a proper install, by all means upgrade to gauge zero. This way, if you ever decide to add another amp (like go 3-way full active front + sub), your power wire will be ready. This is the reason I went gauge zero in my car. 

Otherwise, your existing gauge-4 will be just fine.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I would also upgrade to keep possibilities open but not to 1/0. A 2ga will support the same draw as 3 4ga so unless he's going over that kind if draw, 1/0 would be overkill.


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

I've never ran 1/0 awg wire before. I'm running it under the door sill panels on the driver's side and I'm afraid it won't fit. I may have better luck with 2 awg, but I am not sure where I can purchase that? All the amp kits I see jump from 4 awg to 1/0 awg. If I can run 1/0 awg and it will fit how I described, I'll do that. If not, where can I get some high quality 2 awg wire?


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## jhsellers (Jan 7, 2012)

J1Gold16 said:


> where can I get some high quality 2 awg wire?


2 AWG Welding Cable Class K | WireAndCableToGo.com

This might be the best pricing you'll find for custom length piece. 

Sometimes, you can find a cut piece (maybe 25-ft, or so...) cheaper on eBay, that might fit your length requirements. Also, shipping is a consideration for total cost, since this size wire is heavy. 

Hope this helps,
John


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## J1Gold16 (Dec 7, 2012)

Just to update everyone. I purchased the Alpine PDX M6 and F6. It should arrive sometime next week along with the Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.3. I purchased a 1/0 AWG amp kit to upgrade the wire that I have. It looks like it'll fit. It was smaller than I thought it would be (though still big). Next weekend I will attempt to wrap this all up. Need to order a fused distribution block. I'm not going to secure the distribution block to anything. They should be fine just sitting in the spare tire well unless any of you think that it needs to be affixed to the vehicle.

I'm still working on a design for the 4 JL Audio 8W3v3's. I like the flat response curve of a large box (4 ft^3) with low tuning (30 Hz), however, I am not sure how much cabin gain will affect that. JL Audio's recommended ported enclosure is a lot smaller but the frequency response peaks and is nowhere as flat. Not sure if they are factoring in cabin gain or if they just want to make their woofer louder with a higher tuning frequency. Anyone have thoughts on this?


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

Velcro to secure the dist. block would work.


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