# Upgrade door seals / weather stripping for less road noise



## BlueSQ (Mar 22, 2007)

Is there a way to upgrade your factory door seals to something better? Maybe something cosmeticly pleasing that could be added to it? Any ideas? My door seals are fine, theyre not brittle or anything. Actually for being 6 years old theyre in great shape, but I'm sure there's a technique out there that works as I imagine this could dramatically reduce road noise.


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## Greg_Canada (May 15, 2007)

What car?


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## BlueSQ (Mar 22, 2007)

Greg_Canada said:


> What car?


2002 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT


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## sgas (Jul 7, 2008)

I think a bunch of your road noise comes from the amount of deadening material you have from the factory. Youll still get alot from(through) the hard surfaces and low frequency noises, glass, body noise etc, just like when you get rock chips , and while you didnt hear them they definitely happened.

Or like when someone is mowing the grass in the summer, you shut your windows and all the high pitch stuff goes away, but the deep droning still gets through the window.

While I have some limited knowledge maybe some more deadening material would help..


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## BlueSQ (Mar 22, 2007)

sgas said:


> I think a bunch of your road noise comes from the amount of deadening material you have from the factory. Youll still get alot from(through) the hard surfaces and low frequency noises, glass, body noise etc, just like when you get rock chips , and while you didnt hear them they definitely happened.
> 
> Or like when someone is mowing the grass in the summer, you shut your windows and all the high pitch stuff goes away, but the deep droning still gets through the window.
> 
> While I have some limited knowledge maybe some more deadening material would help..


I see your point, but I think you'll find most of us here have obscene amounts of deadening in our car. The point is basically that while I may have 1" of barrier on my floor, I still have relatively thin rubber seals on my doors that work great to keep water out, but not sound.


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## sgas (Jul 7, 2008)

Oh wow I guess I didn't realize how much reduction you guys had. 1 inch is dead serious. I'm surprised they havent made a specialized type product or at least the option from one of the deadening companies to make them on request..


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Please for the last time, deadener is not effective at blocking sound. Deadener should be used inside doors to keep metal from resonating primarily from your speakers. If people are putting 4 layers of deadener in your doors, you are wasting money and adding useless weight. Granted if you put enough of it, it will block sound, but it's neither cost effective nor weight effective. You might as well put cement in your doors.

If you want to block sound, use a closed-cell foam with a vinyl or lead barrier behind it or one of several viscoelastic coatings. The amount of deadener that is wasted by people is staggering.

To answer the OP's question, you can replace the seals if they are torn, but short of that, I have never seen aftermarket seals. You could certainly make one, but it's probably going to look like ass. If you don't care how it looks, find or make some seals from foam rubber and glue them to the door or frame. You are correct that door seals are probably the single greatest contributor to noise since there is very little way to improve them. Luxury cars often have triple door seals and dual layer glass. This is the most significant reason why they are quieter.


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## sgas (Jul 7, 2008)

What is it about regular and luxury vehicles(and im thinking vs race trim) thats makes then so road quiet. When you take out pounds and pounds of material, they become significantly lighter and significantly louder. I would bet if you took out all the material aside from the carpet from a 7-series Bimmer, the car would be pretty road noisy


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

sgas said:


> What is it about regular and luxury vehicles(and im thinking vs race trim) thats makes then so road quiet. When you take out pounds and pounds of material, they become significantly lighter and significantly louder. I would bet if you took out all the material aside from the carpet from a 7-series Bimmer, the car would be pretty road noisy


It would be extremely noisy, but the carpet of a luxury car and that of your average Honda is not significantly different. The main differences lie in seals / windows. Yes, luxury cars do have more sound blocking material, but the reason you will have trouble ever getting a Honda to sound like an S-Class is because there is nothing you can do about windows and seals (practically anyway). The trunk carpet on my Honda actually has a very thick vinyl barrier sandwiched between it. It's at least 1mm thick. That's the main reason why one silly piece of carpet weighs almost 20lbs.


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## BlueSQ (Mar 22, 2007)

Mooble said:


> Yes, luxury cars do have more sound blocking material, but the reason you will have trouble ever getting a Honda to sound like an S-Class is because there is nothing you can do about windows and seals (practically anyway).


I find it hard to believe that no one here has found a solution to upgrade this.


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## bobduch (Jul 22, 2005)

Business opportunity. 
Anyone want to volunteer and remove the door seals from their Lexus and take before and after DB readings at 70mph?


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## robbyho (Oct 21, 2005)

bobduch said:


> Business opportunity.
> Anyone want to volunteer and remove the door seals from their Lexus and take before and after DB readings at 70mph?



darn, if i only had a lexus...

Look at how recording studios isolate their rooms. With doors that are MASSIVE and close tight with thick rubber gaskets and magnetic or bolt closing mechanisms. These get 70 db or more of reduction. Car doors aren't designed to be pulled that tight, meaning that the seals aren't compressed as much as they could be. Using a thicker and heavier gasket would certainly create a difference, but opening and closing the door is going to become a problem. 

Studios use thick double windows, with each one mounted on a separate wall to keep them isolated. Practically speaking that is impossible to do in a car.

Robby


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

BlueSQ said:


> Is there a way to upgrade your factory door seals to something better? Maybe something cosmeticly pleasing that could be added to it? Any ideas? My door seals are fine, theyre not brittle or anything. Actually for being 6 years old theyre in great shape, but I'm sure there's a technique out there that works as I imagine this could dramatically reduce road noise.


i would try 1 door, glue/adhere a strip of marine grade weather strip

http://www.mdteam.com/products.php?category=245

to the inside of the door lip?/jamb/ seal? so it compresses against the existing seal = double foam and more pressure between them.

if it works, do the others


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

The only double paned windows I know of are S-Class Mercedes although I'm sure others have adopted it since then. They are just two thin panes with a vacuum in the middle.

Here is an idea. Of course it would never materialize as a DIY project, but it could be perfected by major manufacturers--inflatable door seals. Once the door is latched, they inflate thus eliminating the problem of having to close the door with a thick seal. This is what they use in medical labs. You would also need better latches to keep more pressure on the closed door. Here is another area where Mercedes is ahead. I believe Mercedes doors latch in two places.

FYI, I used that peel and seal car weather stripping on my old car and it works like ass. It doesn't stick and it doesn't seal.


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## robbyho (Oct 21, 2005)

Mooble said:


> FYI, I used that peel and seal car weather stripping on my old car and it works like ass. It doesn't stick and it doesn't seal.


did it at least peel alright?


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## Attack eagle (Nov 18, 2006)

Mooble said:


> It would be extremely noisy, but the carpet of a luxury car and that of your average Honda is not significantly different. The main differences lie in seals / windows. Yes, luxury cars do have more sound blocking material, but the reason you will have trouble ever getting a Honda to sound like an S-Class is because there is nothing you can do about windows and seals (practically anyway). The trunk carpet on my Honda actually has a very thick vinyl barrier sandwiched between it. It's at least 1mm thick. That's the main reason why one silly piece of carpet weighs almost 20lbs.


The undermatting on my 92 5 series below the carpet is almost 2 inches think in places... and rarely less than 1" thick... jute padding, 2 mm rubber layers, foam...
even the sunroof panels have 1" thick jute padding on them.

It works great. now the wagon's load floor and hatch... they kinda dropped the ball.

the 3g eclipse uses very little sound dampening or mass dampening from the factory, and the door seals are very thin rubber... but they are there to stop wind noise, not isolate sound. Youve got a LOT of surface area to cover before you would get your primary noise penetration from the seals. not to mention they are frameless glass so they are not going to be conducive to thickening up the seals


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

An example of what the Ford truck guys have found for improving the door seals... slip vinyl/latex/silicone tubing inside the hollow door seal:
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f26/put-tubing-door-seals-now-supercab-quite-54805/


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

sgas said:


> What is it about regular and luxury vehicles(and im thinking vs race trim) thats makes then so road quiet. When you take out pounds and pounds of material, they become significantly lighter and significantly louder. I would bet if you took out all the material aside from the carpet from a 7-series Bimmer, the car would be pretty road noisy


Luxury vehicles use *Noise Barriers* like closed cell foam under the carpet. therees also deadener...but the noise barrier is where the money is.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Straight up Noeprene in 1/4" AND 1/2" thiicknes work great under the carpet as a noise barrier.

Very reasonably priced on Ebay also.

I got 30/40 SQ FT for $115 shipped.


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## ehiunno (Feb 26, 2008)

Yeah, the biggest noise problem in my old mercedes was the door seals. Replaced those after replacing the factory worn down deadening and it made a huge difference.

It would be sweet to be able to improve on the door seals. I might try out that tubing trick later in the summer.


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## BlueSQ (Mar 22, 2007)

mooch91 said:


> An example of what the Ford truck guys have found for improving the door seals... slip vinyl/latex/silicone tubing inside the hollow door seal:
> http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f26/put-tubing-door-seals-now-supercab-quite-54805/


Oh hell ya, now THERE'S a cool solution. $14 and a little effort? Can't beat that. Once I get a few spare hours to try this out I will. Does anyone have a supercab here? Are the seals on that thing huge?


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

BlueSQ said:


> Oh hell ya, now THERE'S a cool solution. $14 and a little effort? Can't beat that. Once I get a few spare hours to try this out I will. Does anyone have a supercab here? Are the seals on that thing huge?


I've got the crew cab and the seals are of a pretty big diameter. I've not done the mod, but I would say since you're trying to slip in tubing of similar diameter to the inner diameter of the seal that it's challenging no matter what you've got. I believe I've read that some WD-40, talc, and other aids have been used to pull the tubing through. I would say the hardest part is how to keep it moving--I would imagine it's like losing one of the laces that holds up a pair of sweatpants inside the waistband, ever try to get one of those out?

Take some time to read some related posts on thedieselstop.com (search for "door seals" or something); as I recall, some guys have had trouble closing the doors depending on the material they used for the tubing.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

mooch91 said:


> I've got the crew cab and the seals are of a pretty big diameter. I've not done the mod, but I would say since you're trying to slip in tubing of similar diameter to the inner diameter of the seal that it's challenging no matter what you've got. I believe I've read that some WD-40, talc, and other aids have been used to pull the tubing through. I would say the hardest part is how to keep it moving--I would imagine it's like losing one of the laces that holds up a pair of sweatpants inside the waistband, ever try to get one of those out?
> 
> Take some time to read some related posts on thedieselstop.com (search for "door seals" or something); as I recall, some guys have had trouble closing the doors depending on the material they used for the tubing.


They make GIANT bottles of (not)KY, that you can buy in Home Depot in the electrical section for lubing up wires as you pull them through conduit.. 

I've almost ALWAYS used WD40 on my grips for my BMX bike, they slide on nice and easy, after an hour, rock solid... Might consider something else... 

as much as WD40 is a lube, it's also a solvent..


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## Greg_Canada (May 15, 2007)

brake cleaner will slide on easy and once it dries it will be rock solid... got to be quick tho... if you use compressed air to dry it.. damn it works good...


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## bobduch (Jul 22, 2005)

For trying to pull your "tube" through the door seal:

Heavy string stuck in one end. Vacuum cleaner hose on the other end. Now you have the string attached to your "tube" and pull the string to get the "tube" through the seal.

I also wonder about silicone glueing a (sliced down the middle) bicycle tube to the existing door seal? Any thoughts?


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