# Ensolite



## apt (Jun 26, 2005)

So I've been driving around for two years with fully deadened doors, WITHOUT ensolite (didn't know about this stuff back then). I've been running alpine type x speakers, and I have to say they sounded a bit boring at times, almost to the point of being lifeless. I thought about changing them out on several occasions.

Well I put in some Ensolite this past week, and all I can say is wow what a difference. The most noticeable is the midrange being much more pronounced and vocals sounding cleaner. Drums have more impact than before. Overall I'm very happy with the results. 

Thank you Rick for a great product and friendly service.


----------



## s10scooter (Feb 5, 2007)

How do you get it not to smell? Mine had an initially bad smell but I left it outside and it disappated.

We had a very heavy downpour and it molded or something, it also started to peel off (I used super 77 spray adhesive)

I have quite a bit left to try again though.


----------



## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

apt, please describe where you installed it. On the door skin? On the door panel? etc...


----------



## less (Nov 30, 2006)

I just picked up the first of my ensolite from the UPS depot last night. In my case, there seems to be absolutley no smell at all. I pulled out a couple of yards to see what it looked/felt like and just left it in my car overnight... didn't notice a thing smell wise.

Also, I know I am following Rick's advice on this part - using his spray adhesive! I tried using 3M products for a headliner in the past and it fell off. I wrapped my tweeter pods with leather using 3M spray adhesive - they are peeling... I asked Rick if, given the small amount I was doing at the time, it would be ok to use the 3M I had hanging around and he counseled against it if I really needed it to stick. In truth, I am not sure why I even asked.

Now I plan on lining almost the whole car with enolite to go with the two rolls of BTX (50 pounds o' rubba!) . In places where I can get away with it, I am also using about 48 square ft. of a woven fiber RV insualtion that is about 1/4 inch thick. It seems like it will be a great sound absorber, but it is probably not a great product to use on inner doors or places that may get really wet. Right now I am leaning toward using it in teh side panels, in the large flat spaces on the floor (under a layer of ensolite), on the plastic inner door liner, around the kick panels and the firewall. 

I will pass along my thoughts (good and bad) once I have had the whole thing in long enough to really tell.


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

ensolite is best used over any and all deadener! in fact i would put two-three layers if you have the room  
maybe its just me, but the ensolite helped my system 4 times more than the deadener did by itself...

has anyone ever just used ensolite by itself?


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

legend94 said:


> ensolite is best used over any and all deadener! in fact i would put two-three layers if you have the room
> maybe its just me, but the ensolite helped my system 4 times more than the deadener did by itself...
> 
> has anyone ever just used ensolite by itself?


It doesn't work anywhere near as well alone. You really need to damp the vibrations before it can do much. That said, the two together are many times more effective than either alone.



Flipx99 said:


> How do you get it not to smell? Mine had an initially bad smell but I left it outside and it disappated.
> 
> We had a very heavy downpour and it molded or something, it also started to peel off (I used super 77 spray adhesive)
> 
> I have quite a bit left to try again though.


Was this Ensolite MLC? I've had several batches from a few different sources and none had any odor that I could detect. I have heard from a few people that tried to save some money and bought other closed cell foams. A few have complained of exactly the same problem - strong odor that never went away.

Closed cell foam should never mildew. Moisture can enter some of the air pockets, but the material will not hold moisture for very long after exposure. Most are also formulated to inhibit mildew growth.

I did once get a few boxes of materials that stunk of perfume. Somehow they got contaminated during shipping. Maybe something like that happened?


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> I've had several batches from a few different sources and none had any odor that I could detect.


mine does not have a noticeable oder either



Rudeboy said:


> I did once get a few boxes of materials that stunk of perfume. Somehow they got contaminated during shipping. Maybe something like that happened?


must be some bad perfume


----------



## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Standard Ensolite should not have much of an odor. You might have gotten Neoprene instead which is somewhat similar and can have a strong odor. Neoprene is commonly used in cheap mousepads, watersport wetsuits, etceteras, and is denser/heavier per square inch than Ensolite.

I agree regarding the the effectiveness of combining mat and Ensolite. 

Try a Jute/Ensolite/Mat sandwich for even better results, but only if moisture is not a problem. Been using this combo since '95 with great results.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

legend94 said:


> must be some bad perfume


It was nasty.


----------



## s10scooter (Feb 5, 2007)

I bought the stuff from Rick raamaudio.com.
I assumed it was closed cell.


I might try to order a can of his spray to see if that helps.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Flipx99 said:


> I bought the stuff from Rick raamaudio.com.
> I assumed it was closed cell.
> 
> 
> I might try to order a can of his spray to see if that helps.


Then it should be Ensolite. The spray is just adhesive - shouldn't help with odor at all. Something very strange must have happened.


----------



## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Where is the cheapest place to order ensolite. I might use this and deadner for my door panel project


----------



## Preacher (May 8, 2006)

Today I went to the hardware store and they had a roll of cork 48" X 60' 4mm thick for $3.89 - I thought they meant a SQ ft so I went to ask: "nope, $3.89 for the roll" 

So I went home and looked it up on the net and found this http://www.quietcork.com/faqs.html

Q. Can cork develop mold if it gets wet or is used in a moist environment?
A. Cork does not support the growth of molds and mildew. Besides cork's superb technical specifications, this is one of the main reasons why cork is extensively used for insulation purposes in refrigeration rooms and chambers, cork floor coverings in both residential and commercial settings, and cork underlayment for acoustical sound control. It is also for this reason that cork is used in the shoe industry as insoles and for orthopedic purposes. QuietCORK™ underlayment, much like other cork building products and shoe components, is specifically formulated using a polyurethane binder further enhancing corks natural resistance to molds and mildew.

PS. I don't believe in skeptics


----------



## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

Preacher said:


> Today I went to the hardware store and they had a roll of cork 48" X 60' 4mm thick for $3.89 - I thought they meant a SQ ft so I went to ask: "nope, $3.89 for the roll"
> 
> So I went home and looked it up on the net and found this http://www.quietcork.com/faqs.html
> 
> ...



hmm, never heard of anyone using that before..


----------



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I'm looking for some cheaper ensolite alternative as well. That stuff sounds like it would work. I've heard of people using carpet backing as well.


----------



## solacedagony (May 18, 2006)

I'm fairly certain they use cork in places like recording studios.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

www.mcmaster.com

They have closed cell foam similar to the ensolite. I am unsure how close it is, but I was trying to compare the stuff at Raamat.com side by side until I found something which I thought was the same. Anyway, if it is the same, you can order it in other thicknesses up to 1"

I believe it's PVC based, but the ensolite is also fire retardant. So I am still trying to figure out which one I found was the same material. I think this was it.

It's a combo of PVC/NBR with Fire retardant

Edit: Stupid mcmaster not letting me link  Just search for "Neoprene/Vinyl/Buna-N Foam Rubber" on their website.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Question on the cork though....how do you plan on getting it to stay stuck vertically? Since it weights more I can see gravity wanting to help it peel off wherever you decide to stick it. It might work well on the floor though were you just lay it. just my random thoughts


----------



## raamaudio (May 4, 2005)

We receive freshly manf batches of ensolite regularly and they can smell a bit when first opened up, that is a normal situation. We have never had a report of any smell lasting more than a day or two. 

If yours still smells then something may be wrong like it was exposed to moisture, if so and folded or rolled up mildew can and will grow like it will with anything.

We had several rolls that were wet when we recieved them a couple of years ago. We unrolled and dried it out but it was too late as must of happened early in the shipping time frame. Those were disposed of and none shipped out of course.

If you still have an odor and want to send me a sample to check out I would be glad to, please make sure though it is not something else in your car. Years ago we had a guy complain about a lingering odor from our RAAMmat, only one I have had. It turned out to be dead mice 

If you do have a problem caused by the materials we will take care of you one way or another, always going to treat our fellow enthusiasts that way buddy

----------------------------------------------------------------

If Ensolite is properly glued down, meaning sealed around the edges, no moisture will penetrate it and cause any problems. If after a heavy rain, car wash, etc you have issues then it was improperly applied or the adhesive failed. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

As for adhesive, I have personally had every 3M spray can adhesive fail over time, some sooner than others and it can be a major headache. 

The same exact adhesive we recommend is labeled for different uses, one is aircraft upholstery adhesive, you do not find products for aircraft that are prone to any kind of failure, off gassing dangerous fumes, etc

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rick


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Raamaudio-

Do you sell ensolite that is thicker than 1/8"? I'm planing on ordering some Raamat soon and trying to decide if I want something a little thicker inside the door then the ensolite.


----------



## raamaudio (May 4, 2005)

I have used thicker versions and found them harder to work with in most areas, there was no cost savings over using additional layers, and in most cases just not needed. 

It takes more time to carry more products and thus costs more to run a business, making prices for the end user higher. More questions to answer, less time to take care of other issues that are more important. This is why we sell three products only, so I can focus on what is best for the vast majority of enthusiasts and provide more direct help

If I just wanted to make money I could hire a staff and sell a ton of different products but that would not be nearly as fun as getting to hang out with cool car audio and performance people all day, everyday

Rick


----------



## MIAaron (May 10, 2005)

The 1/8" gives flexibility. If it was a 1/2" thick I would have to carve it out in some parts of my door, and in some parts of the door where I have 1/8" I wouldn't have been able to fit any. I doesn't take much time to cut and installs quickly. Putting on ensolite was the most bang-for-the-minute audio upgrade I have done to my car.

I'm suprised to see people complaining about the price. I thought the stuff was quite inexpensive...


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Ok no problem. Makes sense about the thicker stuff. I've barely ever used sound deadening because my first car there were no options at the time except for crappy dynamat original. I never felt like working with the stuff again until I used the extreme, but that was also years ago when still not many options existed. 

Ok cool. I won't bother looking for thicker stuff then. I know it's easier to simplfy your product line when it's not your primary work. I'll be ordering some here in the future.


----------



## raamaudio (May 4, 2005)

This is my primary work, my only work and has been for 4 years now 

I put in at least 60 hours a week but usually allot more, busiest week ever was 3 weeks back, 16 hours a day for 7 days straight and still not enough time to keep up completely. 

--------------------------------------------

I used Ensolite for many years in all my installs and most of my local buddies would see and want some, always sold what I needed to help them out. The local wholesale only place where I originally found it sometimes had it and sometimes not for long periods of time. 

1.5 years ago I decided to start carrying it to help my fellow enthusiasts have it available, I only bought 160 yards, it last for a few months. We ship more than that a week now, most weeks. I never thought we would sell much but it has taken on a life of it's own

-------------------------------------------

If you find other foams(or other products)you prefer, can save money on, etc, great! Just make sure they will not introduce problems over time.

It is also best to have a rough surface to help break up acoustical energy that strikes it. (I like to cover every hard surface in a car I can, except inside doors, just a patch there)

I also prefer fabric upholstery, dash pads, thick carpets, etc, for the same reasons.

Rick


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

Ooops.  You are lucky then you get to work in some aspect of your hobby and it supports you. If I could find something in this hobby that supported my I'd do it in a heartbeat. Those are some crazy hours though


----------



## raamaudio (May 4, 2005)

It is ok most of the time, I do not set an alarm, I do not commute, I live and work in a nice home/shop with mountain views all around, my kids are with me in Utah, I hang out with the coolest people you can imagine, all the time (mostly online but still very cool

I can take a break as needed, went to see 300 last night and finished up work when we got home, pretty dang sweet life really. 

The very best part is no more bosses and no more politics!!!!

Rick


----------



## Preacher (May 8, 2006)

I searched and searched and the only product near in price, effectiveness and quality (to ensolite) is Volara. The savings are only slight, both sides are slick so the benefit of rough edge are lost as Rick Mentioned. 

If your car is important you'll want to do it right with the Raamat and Ensolite (I've got some for my 2005 matrix). If your a cheapskate and drive a beater like me you won't want to put in $ you cannot remove so you'll try stupid things just for kix (Cork, carpet pad the neighbors throw out, swimming pool noodles rescued from trash cans, odd n end packing material from items I receive, expanding foam). Yes I'm an idiot. 

I'm really wanting to get my paws on some shredded tires and mix them with something adhesive and plaster my door skins and trunk.


----------



## ClinesSelect (Apr 16, 2006)

Preacher said:


> If your a cheapskate and drive a beater like me you won't want to put in $ you cannot remove so you'll try stupid things just for kix (Cork, carpet pad the neighbors throw out, *swimming pool noodles rescued from trash cans*, odd n end packing material from items I receive, expanding foam).
> 
> I'm really wanting to get my paws on some shredded tires and mix them with something adhesive and plaster my door skins and trunk.



Pics?


----------



## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

ClinesSelect said:


> Pics?


x 2


----------



## raamaudio (May 4, 2005)

Nothing wrong with DIY buddy I got into this business because of the high cost of the big name brands, I tried all the roofing and other building products I could find and concluded they were not what I wanted to use but a light came on 

I had some products that had some good aspects and some not so good for our needs, I talked a manf into making me samples combining the best part of three different products, did some testing, made some changes, more testing and original RAAMmat was born

We made upgrades to it over time, 3 to be exact and then finally after two years of trying got them to invest in the equipment to make BXT, 2.5 years ago.

We take a look at BXT every 6 months or so, the cost of ingredients, any new materials that became available, etc, to see if we can improve it. So far none have been cost effective, very expensive to make tiny improvements that would not be really noticeable in use. 

We use no asphalt in BXT, it is butyl, polymers and a mineral filler/enhancer that actually makes the product better and less expensive to manf. 

----------------------

BUT, if I was in the shoes I used to be in, I would do all I could to find the least costly way to reliably get the job done

Rick


----------



## Preacher (May 8, 2006)

Right now my moisture barrier is completely covered in duct tape and sealed to the door, so I'm not getting pics too soon. However a friend at a parts yard got me a new drivers door handle so when I pull it apart for that I'll post some nifty ghetto snapshops. It's not as gratiuitous as it sounds, but its still fun.


----------



## bbaccord (Mar 7, 2007)

when putting ensolite over the inner door skin, is it preferrable to put it on as one piece? It seems like a piece that large could be a bit difficult to handle when loaded with adhesive.


----------



## momotaro (May 3, 2006)

bbaccord said:


> when putting ensolite over the inner door skin, is it preferrable to put it on as one piece? It seems like a piece that large could be a bit difficult to handle when loaded with adhesive.


When I did my doors, I was able to do it with one piece.
I sprayed in sections starting from the top and working my way down.
I did have to do a bit of prep work by masking off the areas that I didn't want the glue to spray.
Then I cut it to the shape I wanted it to be.

I hope that made sense. lol


----------



## s10scooter (Feb 5, 2007)

The initial smell to disappate after leaving it out in the fresh air for a couple ours. It wasn't a bad smell, but like a "new smell"

I am going to attribute the moisture-smell to improper installation on my part.

How do you ensure that no moisture gets in around the edges? Take a lighter and "melt" to the door? After the spray adhesive, then what?


----------



## raamaudio (May 4, 2005)

In my install guide I recommend only using a small patch of ensolite behind each speaker, over the mat of course. More is just not needed and in many cases can muddy the midbass response. 

If you glue the foam properly, the glue is contact cement so spray both the foam and the area it will go on, making sure to cover it really well around the edges, properly rub it down, etc, you will not have a moisture issue

But, if you are concerned then use some silicone sealer around the edge

We receive very fresh batches of Ensolite and ship it out right away, we go through so much they have finally had to increase manf to keep up with our demand. It is normal with freshly made materials to have a bit of ordor for awhile but we have never had one last for long with the Ensolite, the glue or the BXT

Rick


----------



## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

raamaudio said:


> In my install guide I recommend only using a small patch of ensolite behind each speaker, over the mat of course. More is just not needed and in many cases can muddy the midbass response.
> 
> Rick



I'm hoping you can expand on this a bit, Rick. We've been talking about an upcoming project of mine and I was actually planning to use a significant amount of this material inside the doors.

I'm curious what the mechanism is for making the response "muddy". My goal will be lower midbass well into the sub-bass region and I do not wish to compromise either the low frequency extension nor the top end clarity.


----------



## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

Two questions:

1) I am using dynamat extreme currently in the doors of my car. Will the ensolite combo work well with the non raam deadener?

2) I am looking forward to sealing the speakers in the doors in a .5 cubic foot enclosure. What role would the deadeners and ensolite play in a scenario? I'm told that the door resonance should be eliminated through an enclosure, but nothing is 100% in this life.



TIA!


----------



## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Rick, 

Oops - I was a bit confused between the explanation on the web site and what was written here. After rereading the information you sent me via email about installing, it matches what you say here perfectly and I now know that you do recommend not using ensolite on the layer of the door closest to the outside air. 

This is what I read. Just in case I am wrong it can be corrected: 

1. Mat the outer door using as many layers as it takes to remove resonance. Use a couple extra layers about 12"
square directly behind the speakers themselves. Use a layer of ensolite over that area only.

2. Mat the inner door and cover with ensolite to taste.

3. Mat the interior trim of the door as needed and usually 1/4 of the inner surface is sufficient.

This is good news for me because it frees up some more ensolite for use in my rear side panels and across the back seat. Thanks for sharing so much on your experience of how to do this right.... I would be pretty pissed if I put this stuff in and actually muffled my bass!

Oh and by the way - if you are considering buying the Lightning audio spray damper for getting to those tight places - make certain your can is working... I can't find a can that actually sprays in this area lol!

Jim/Less


----------



## robdridan (Oct 31, 2010)

Pardon my ignorance but we have limited products available in Aus- What is ensolite ?


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

its a closed cell foam product that goes over sound deadening. the newer line has self adhesive! i have used both and would not use anything else.


Ensolite IUO Peel and Stick --- 1 yard (13.875 sq ft) - RAAMaudio Inc.


get the peel and stick version its worth the extra money


----------



## robdridan (Oct 31, 2010)

You guys in the USA have no idea how lucky you are with choice of products and cheap (for most things) prices !!!


----------



## calebkhill (Jan 12, 2013)

You can find ccf in your local home depot, or whatever home construction business is in your area.

Spray adhesive also.


----------



## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

I came across this, I got to see it, I am not sure it is CCF but I like the idea of Peel and stick and it also has an aluminum foil layer on the the top that will also work as an insulator. It is about $1.30/ sqf at lowes or HD (same price as ensolite IUO raamaudio peel and stick). 

Anyone willing to email them or do the research to find out if it is actually a CCF? on their site it says it can be used in the trunk and under the hood, that means it could be used on the floor as a decoupler and insulation for MLV. Doors? I am going to wait to find out if it is CCF, I could place it over my CLD on my front doors but only on the inner door facing the door card, if it is not CCF then it can degrade just like open cell foam. 

Product
Foil and Fiberglass Duct Wrap | Frost King® Products

Video after application on the door and comparison
Frost King air duct insulation installation - YouTube


Some thread with a good review
Frost King Sound Deadening - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum


----------



## Pantstain (Feb 24, 2014)

Necro!

anyone ever tried the frost king stuff mentioned? just curious....with it being SO cheap...if its a viable solution for a tight budget or just a complete waste of time


----------



## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Pantstain said:


> Necro!
> 
> anyone ever tried the frost king stuff mentioned? just curious....with it being SO cheap...if its a viable solution for a tight budget or just a complete waste of time



I used it, not as a deadener, as a gap filler on the doors just to have a smoother flatter surface to have less air gaps between the MLV CCF on the door. You need to use adhesive spray otherwise it will not stay on. I also used it on some parts of the door card simply to fill empty areas or air gaps. 

It could work as CCF substitute but it may be too thick to allow the door panels to clip back on, on the floor it may be more effective as a decoupler only before laying MLV on it. Keep in mind that it is good open cell foam that could pass as ccf or but it may not be resistant to ozone and other elements that CCF can resist.


----------



## Pantstain (Feb 24, 2014)

raamaudio said:


> As for adhesive, I have personally had every 3M spray can adhesive fail over time, some sooner than others and it can be a major headache.
> 
> The same exact adhesive we recommend is labeled for different uses, one is aircraft upholstery adhesive, you do not find products for aircraft that are prone to any kind of failure, off gassing dangerous fumes, etc


Any chance for a link to this stuff? Or a name or something. Please.


----------

