# Unsucking my RX-8's sound: (re)install log



## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

My sound system sucks. This thread will log the transformation of that sentence into the past tense.

I've realized that my system was lacking for a while, but only recently it hit me hard enough to finally start doing something about it. Since that realization, I've been making several changes, and I've been wanting to write some of my thoughts down publicly and see what folks think.

To preface: nothing fancy in my install--it is far from show quality.

Apologies in advance for the long posts.

*The basics:*

The car: 2005 Mazda RX-8:










Music: I listen to mostly electronic music: drum'n'bass, downtempo, indie hiphop, IDM, breaks. Sound of drums is key, but also clean and deep bass is important. Recently, I've been listening to a lot more metal, from Tool to Mastodon to Dimmu Borgir, so ability to convey guitar distortion, feel the kicks and, well, be able to hear the death grunts or screaming vocals over the guitars.

Sources: my stock headunit and an iPod via aux-in. Yeah, it's difficult to swap out the stock headunit, as it has HVAC controls built into it (not just the knobs, but also logic).

Objective: to have a musical, enjoyable sound system that puts a wide grin on my face. Stock-looking setup (stealthy is good, but not required) and ability to return to stock with reasonable effort.

*My sucky setup (as of two weeks ago):*

- Stock HU speaker outs to David Navone NE-774V LOC, RCAs into the amps

Front stage:

- Focal 165KF component set, consisting of a 6.5" mid and the TN47 tweeter.
- powered by JL Audio 300/4, although I was only using half the amp

Subwoofer stage:

- Dayton RSS265HF-4 10" subwoofer, in a sealed .9 cuft enclosure
- powered by an Alpine MRD-M1005. Yeah, I know the amp is overkill, but I was originally powering a 500W RMS 4-ohm sub (and the amp provides 600W into 4-ohm).

Here are some of the installation aspects:

Stock headunit + my iPod mount (iPod goes in via aux-in, great quality):










I am running from the stock headunit outputs, but I didn't want to tap into any of the wires on the stock harness. So I built an intermediate harness, using a normal into-car and a reverse into-stock-headunit harness. This way, I can go back to stock by just removing the intermediate harness. You can see the stock HU outputs on the top right (blue wires), and the quick disconnects for the stock speaker wiring hanging just below.










Door with the Focal mid installed and the crossover mounted nearby:










Some good things came out of Bose radio being an option on this car: sealed doors, space to fit a 9" woofer, 3.75" mounting depth clearance. You can see that the door is essentially sealed stock. I placed two layers of Raammat on the inside of the door, with a third layer right behind the speaker. I have a little Raammat around the speaker. Deadening the door fully with mat & Ensolite on the plastic part and the door panels is in the works.

The original tweeter mounting, while clean-looking, turned out to be a pretty bad idea:










The tweeters were aimed into the shifter. I mostly fixed the aiming by breaking off part of the U-shaped mounting bracket (to be an L-shaped bracket), to be able to push the tweeters out and aim them mostly horizontal, towards me. 

A shot of the passenger side with the original aiming:










I still need to aim the tweeters better, perhaps actually make proper pods. I do want to maintain the sail-panel location (don't want to go to the A-pillars).

The subwoofer is in a fiberglass .9cuft box, made by someone off rx8club forums. Tucks away nicely in the corner:










You can also kinda see the not-at-all-showy 300/4 amp.

Finally, an AudioControl DQT EQ was placed prior to the subwoofer amp.

SO!

How does it sound?

Well, the Focals have plenty of detail. They extend impressively low (60hz) in the doors and the midbass seems strong.

So...

*Why the current system sucks (as of two weeks ago):*

I was driving around two weeks ago and finally admitted that the sound in my car sucks. There is good detail and all, but what's missing is tonal balance.

It sucks! I have all this money in the equipment, but it's all in the install and mine ain't good.

I've been listening to a lot more metal lately, and, boy, does metal sound like ass in my car. Actually, it's kinda painful to listen to: the problem is that the guitars sound extra shrill, with the drums and all, and the vocals (male, singing, screaming, death grunts) are not coming through as separately from the rest of the instruments as they should be. Overall, the sound is top-end heavy. I find myself having to turn up the sound more to be able to hear the roar of the lower registers of the guitars and to be able to distinguish the vocals better, but then I am listening to these highs too loud, and it's fatiguing and unpleasant. I'm missing that full bodied rock the f--k out sound.

So that's one half of the problem.

The other half is that my bass is all over the place. My first attempt to flatten it with the EQ + parametric EQ produced bass that felt lacking in many songs. So I changed one of the main parametric EQs to be less flat (I think something only like 3db), but now the bass is back to booming. Some songs have not enough bass, and bass is booming in other songs.

I feel like I can probably figure out the bass, kinda sorta, but I feel completely lost on the upper end of things.


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

*Sucking less, part II*

*Chapter 1: LOC from hell*

A week ago, I decided to start with the basics: is my headunit putting out flat signal?

So I tapped in the RCAs from the NE-774V passive LOC into my RTA setup, thinking that the LOC shouldn't make any difference, after all it's just reducing the voltage (well, OK, so maybe a bad assumption).

And hey, something was robbing my bass!










That was the non-flat input to my amps, coming out of the LOC. That's the pink-noise averaged response with my HU at volume level 3, 6, 10, 15, 20 and 24 (out of 34). (Sorry forgot to smooth the curves)

You can see that the bass below 70hz is being rolled off, and there is a bump in bass response, which changes with volume!

I was pretty horrified (thinking that now I'm going to have to do a JL CleanSweep type of a solution) at my stock HU's response, until I took out the LOC out of the equation and sampled the HU speaker outputs directly, revealing flat output (within 1db)! (insert OMG noises here)

Ever since my original install, I've been struggling against an evil, horrible bass hump in my subwoofer's response.

Turns out, it was completely caused by my LOC... compare my sub's in-car response (200hz 12db lowpass) with and without the LOC (curves are not exactly level-matched):










This is the in-car sub response, 200Hz lowpass. The green line is the new response w/o the LOC, the purple line is the old response w/ the LOC, featuring the evil bass hump, to the tune of 12-15db!

I completely dropped the use of my EQ after dropping the LOC and my sub sounds as deep as it should! Well, at least as deep as a single 10" with no EQ does.

So, I hooked up the HU speaker outputs directly to my Audiocontrol DQT EQ (after setting the internal settings to balanced inputs and isolated grounds) and after some level matching ended up with a completely alternator-whine-free sound (hurray!)

*Chapter 2: bi-wired and gone active!*

2 days of hell bi-wiring my car doors. The space on the RX-8 is super-wicked tight... you can read my complaining about it.

I think I lied in the post, because now that I think about it, I actually ran 20ga through the actual doors... oh well, it's 12ga for woofer, 16ga for tweeter all the way to the door molex, then 2 feet of 20ga, then 16ga inside the door. I checked the circular mils per amp rating and I'm OK driving about 50W RMS per channel (less OK driving 100W). Still, good enough for now...

So yeah, bi-wired! The only crossover that I have that goes up high enough is the Audiocontrol DXS. I hooked it up and found out that I there are fixed increments for the mid/high crossover point: 5KHz, 4Khz, 3.2Khz, 2.7KHz, and becomes more detailed as you cross over lower. This kinda sucks, because I was hoping to try 3KHz (stock X-over point is 3.5KHz). So yeah, this accentuates the need for getting a more sophisticated processor. Plus, I can't control this from my seat, which makes it much more difficult to try different settings.

*Chapter 3: my speakers still suck*

But at least I can change them out now 

I am running tweeters quieter than how I used to (which used to be -6db), but the active crossover did not take care of the shrillness. The upper end is missing more sparkle now, but at least things are a bit less painful to listen to.

I have some funky siblance in the midrange speaker, right around the crossover point (crossing lower seems to help, and strangely enough crossing higher? maybe I'm smoking crack).

I tried running with 2.7Khz x-over instead of 3.2, and it sounds better for metal and most electronic music, but when I put on some Thievery Corporation with female vocals, the tweeters can't handle the frequencies of the atmospheric pads and mess up the vocals (the vocals sound drowned, hard to distinguish).

I know my TN47 tweets are too harsh/bright (but not sparkly bright... more like 4-5khz bright or something), I kinda knew that, but I think my midrange driver isn't so hot either (I hear siblance/shrillness on some songs with the tweeters killed).


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

personally I like the KF series. I am currently using them in a home theater setup. As for the tn47 tweets, the aiming of them has everything to do with the "shrillness". I know exactly what you are talking about. I have tried them in various positions in my car and for me, the best setup I have found is mounted in the pillars aiming across the windshield. A dashpad kills any dash reflections. This setup completely killed all "shrillness". maybe this will help you a little.


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

*new develoments part III: tweets & processor*

Firstly, I ordered the 3sixty.2. I need a highly-customizable cross-over, plus the ability to do some EQ'ing to take care of an issue here or there.

I couldn't find the PPI DCX-730 cheap anywhere (cheapest was $490 at woofersetc). 3sixty.2 is $375 shipped refurbed from RF, and while I will miss the lack of parametric EQs, I think it will be a good compromise and a nice starter processor. As time goes on, I can look for the DCX-730 or see how the new Alpine processor (whenever it finally comes out) fares.

Secondly, for s--ts and giggles I ordered a pair of Seas 27TAFNC/G (H1397). At $58 for the pair, if they don't work out, I won't be sad to resell them at some loss. Chances are, they will be far nicer than my TN47s.

I struggled between the textile vs aluminum dome, but npdang's positive review of the aluminum dome got me sold. npdang's analysis shows that the tweets can be crossed as low as 2KHz with a steep slope.

The idea is as follows: my mids seem to be alright, except they seem to sound kinda funky at above 3KHz. So why not try a set of these tweets, crossing them at a cool 2-2.5KHz? As I said, for s--ts and giggles.

I think I will replace the mids. The CA18RNX does sound quite tempting, but I'm also tempted to blow a wad of cash on a higher-end series, like the Seas Excel W18 or the Revelators.

---

I am planning on doing some RTAing this weekend or next week to determine in better detail what's going on with the current speakers. I'm also going to swap in the new Seas tweets and see how that changes the sound. (Plus, of course, the 3Sixty.2 is going in.)


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

bobditts said:


> personally I like the KF series. I am currently using them in a home theater setup. As for the tn47 tweets, the aiming of them has everything to do with the "shrillness". I know exactly what you are talking about. I have tried them in various positions in my car and for me, the best setup I have found is mounted in the pillars aiming across the windshield. A dashpad kills any dash reflections. This setup completely killed all "shrillness". maybe this will help you a little.


I'm not keen on dashpads, but I will play more with aiming and see how that affects things. The shrillness is also present in the mids though as well, and it quite possibly could be the interaction of the speakers with the acoustics of the car.

I went back to Tweeter and listened some more to the 165KF setup on the soundboard. I was comparing them to a Polk set. Yes, I did like how (on-axis) the snares sounded on the 165KF, but I did notice some deficiency in the midrange when listening to some music with distorted guitars (Polk seemed to carry through that better, but didn't sound as "detailed").

In general, I feel a little bit jaded by my quest for detail/clarity, and I want to get back to good overall tonal balance.

By the way, I am handing out the "suck" label here left and right on everything, but that's just how I feel at the moment. Once I finally get to the destination of a nice sounding car, I will probably prove myself wrong about many things several time over.

So feel free to dish in with the criticisms!


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## dBassHz (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: new develoments part III: tweets & processor*



Astral said:


> Firstly, I ordered the 3sixty.2. I need a highly-customizable cross-over, plus the ability to do some EQ'ing to take care of an issue here or there.


Nice car. You're definitely on the right path to a great system. Replacing the LOC with something that will give you a flat response is the best thing that you can do for your system, if you wish to keep your OEM headunit. I decided against the Navone LOC after finding out about the 12dB roll-off after the 80Hz peak. I'm going to install the Audio Control L6 in my wife's car since her tuning abilities are limited to Bass/Mid/Treble.

As for the focal components, I've read that they are very good but don't really compare with some nicer DIY drivers. You will definitely love the Seas 27TAFNC/G. I just bought another pair after selling the 1st ones. And I'm sure you will like the CA18RNX drivers, if you decided to go that route. They have a nice flat response, strong midbass, and a smooth high end roll-off. I have not heard the 7" Scan Revs and Excel drivers but I'm sure they are even better. Good luck in your quest for audio perfection.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

*Re: new develoments part III: tweets & processor*

We'll get you tuned up right Oleg. There's no reason we can't improve the sound of what you've got. Everything in your car is respectable. I'll be over on Saturday to give you a hand.

Do you have deadening on the inside of the door (behind the driver)? It looks like you could use some more. Also, did you deaden the backside of the door panel? A little bit of raaammat and ensolite goes a long way when it comes to midbass definition.


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## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

*Re: new develoments part III: tweets & processor*



omarmipi said:


> I decided against the Navone LOC after finding out about the 12dB roll-off after the 80Hz peak.


No wonder the bass in my wife's car sounds like crap! Thanks for posting that. I'll have to find an amp with speaker level inputs for her car. I wonder if all LOCs are similar in that respect or if it's just the Navone unit.

Sorry for the OT.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Don't know if you've seen my install thread, but you and I had similar problems, and solutions.


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

*Re: new develoments part III: tweets & processor*



khail19 said:


> No wonder the bass in my wife's car sounds like crap! Thanks for posting that. I'll have to find an amp with speaker level inputs for her car. I wonder if all LOCs are similar in that respect or if it's just the Navone unit.
> 
> Sorry for the OT.


I e-mailed David Navone about the bass rolloff recently (when I e-mailed before buying the LOC in Sep 2005, he replied it was flat 20hz to 20khz). He asked me to verify it using a good home receiver.. still haven't done it, but that other page pretty much backs me up. Heck, the page seems to say that Navone himself admitted it.

khail, you just need to find an amp that accepts high-level differential/balanced inputs. Or use an active LOC, like any AudioControl unit (LC6, DQT, etc). For example, I can plug my radio directly into my JL Audio 300/4 and my Alpine MRD-M1005.


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

fourthmeal said:


> Don't know if you've seen my install thread, but you and I had similar problems, and solutions.


Reading your thread now! I've read a bit of it earlier, but giving it a thorough look now.


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## ortizjlaudio (Jul 7, 2007)

nice install


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

*Re: new develoments part III: tweets & processor*



Astral said:


> I e-mailed David Navone about the bass rolloff recently (when I e-mailed before buying the LOC in Sep 2005, he replied it was flat 20hz to 20khz). He asked me to verify it using a good home receiver.. still haven't done it, but that other page pretty much backs me up. Heck, the page seems to say that Navone himself admitted it.


Today I ran the LOC thru my JVC home receiver (not the greatest, not crap either) and got similar roll off the bass results as what I was seeing with my stock HU:










SO.. yeah. Don't use that LOC if you want need low end below 80hz.


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## kaineilsen (Jan 31, 2007)

Did you get a chance to measure the output voltage of the LOC?

Also, anyone care to recommend a inexpensive 4-channel LOC to replace the Navone unit?


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

I think they all are going to have similar issues, which is why it is best to find a set of amps that have a large gain adjustment or a -12db switch. Or you can do this...

* Open up the head unit
* Find the amplifer chip
* look it up online to find the inputs/outputs
* connect some RCA wires to the inputs and put it back together.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

chuyler1 said:


> I think they all are going to have similar issues, which is why it is best to find a set of amps that have a large gain adjustment or a -12db switch. Or you can do this...
> 
> * Open up the head unit
> * Find the amplifer chip
> ...



Be careful! I tried this using 04-05 design schematics and pictures on my 07 radio...which turns out is completely different. In the end, I couldn't do it. I had to go with the 3sixty.2, which worked.


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

chuyler1 said:


> I think they all are going to have similar issues, which is why it is best to find a set of amps that have a large gain adjustment or a -12db switch. Or you can do this...
> 
> * Open up the head unit
> * Find the amplifer chip
> ...


I'm set as far as inputs go, both my amps and my input processors (incl. the soon-to-come 3sixty.2) can accept high-level differential inputs.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Oleg, when are you going to have your 360 installed? Maybe I should hold off on coming over until you have that setup.


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

chuyler1 said:


> Oleg, when are you going to have your 360 installed? Maybe I should hold off on coming over until you have that setup.


This Friday. Yep, we should hold off tuning until I get it in. Sent you a PM over at the other forum.


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## ghart999 (Feb 8, 2006)

I would show these result to Navone. I think you may have a bad unit or something. As I know numerous people that use these with no issues in the low bass region like you are seeing.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

I noticed a similar response curve when I tested the Navone LOC with my Protege5 factory stereo. I assumed the amplifier chip was the problem at the time but perhaps it was a combination of the chip and the LOC. Below is the response graph I took at the time of my test. I took three samples, 1/3 volume, 2/3 volume, and 9/10 volume. It shows that the factory circutry has built-in bass boost at low levels and a significant drop off below 80Hz (ignore the 60Hz spike, it is from my power supply).
http://www.huyler.net/personal/HU-LineOut/images/Step-31 Navone-LOC.jpg


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

ghart999 said:


> I would show these result to Navone. I think you may have a bad unit or something. As I know numerous people that use these with no issues in the low bass region like you are seeing.


After I e-mailed him FR thru the LOC from my home receiver, I got a confirmation from David Navone that this is indeed normal (the roll-off) and that they do have competition grade LOCs (presumably with lower roll-offs), but they have $50/channel transformers. The funny thing is that he advertises the unit I had as "a competition quality" LOC.

To summarize, I think it's shady that he advised me via e-mail that the unit is flat 20hz-20khz pre-sales, and then after sending in two FR plots, he finally said "yes... that looks correct." And it's shady that this fact is not advertised anywhere online. I purchased the LOC originally thinking that I was going to get a flat response 20hz-20Khz.


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

*Amp board!*

A local car show is coming up this week (at where I work) and I decided to tidy up my amplifiers. If you look at pg 1., you will see that they were mounted on the trunk floor. Wires were somewhat messy, esp. because I had a DSP in there, and so I had RCA wires just hanging out there.

After some consultation with chuyler1, I decided to make an amp rack, and mount it behind the seats, similar to what many others do. I decided to sacrifice having a working pass-through compartment.

I decided to use birch plywood instead of MDF, because birch was lighter and I only needed 1 2x4 sheet (so cost was moot).

For me, this was not a straightforward\ project and I had to learn a lot, but for an experienced installer, this is cake.

So my car has V-shaped braces behind the rear seats. The rear seats themselves are just foam-backed and weigh just under 20lbs, so I can't screw anything into them. The problem is that these braces intersect the rear seats in the lower half only. The topmost portion of the brace is only 60% up on the board or so.

To help with the mounting, I decided to use "mounting squares". I attached them to the V-shaped braces and attached some wooden pieces to make it sit more flush against the not-very-flat brace surface:










Then for the amp board itself, I used a large piece of flat cardboard to trace out a shape and test-fit it before cutting the actual plywood. The end of the trunk has three different widths, getting narrower on top, and so I couldn't just use a perfectly square piece of board. The stock seats had plastic covers behind them, and those covers followed the shape of the rear of the trunk. I used these covers to make an initial outline for the cardboard cutout.

To secure the top of the board, I decided to attach a T-shaped brace (the only one I had lying around) to the top center of the board and then attach it to the sheetmetal using a screw.

Here is a test fit:










I left 2" of space behind the actual back of the trunk, so that I could mount my distro blocks and DSP there. I didn't have enough space to put the amps (in a nice straight-up fashion) and the DSP on the front of the board. Plus, the center rear has approx a 1" ledge sticking out from the back, and I no longer had to worry about clearing it.

Here is a view of the front of the board. The moral of the photo is that cutting straight lines with the jigsaw is hard. Thankfully, I was going to carpet the amp board, so it wouldn't be very visible.










I used an idea from chuyler1 to raise up the amps using 1/4" spacers and run the wires underneath. Here is a shot of an amp on the spacers (ideally, I should use dark-colored spacers and black-finish screws):










The above shot also shows a T-nut on the left. This is one of the T-nuts for 1/4" size machine screws that I was using to attach the amp board to the mounting squares. T-nuts worked rather well in this application as they were stationary and weren't rotating as I was screwing things in.

Here are the poorly drilled holes for the wires underneath the amps. The holes are just 1/2" or so up from the edges of the amps.. the wires don't run all that much under the amps themselves.










Then I went to carpet the amp board. I had no carpet and it was a Sunday. For some not-so-good reasons, I didn't have carpet prepared. Thankfully, a local Tweeter store was open, and I drove down there to pick up some charcoal and black carpet. The charcoal was too bright and didn't match stock; I ended up going with the black. Here is the carpeted board:










OK, now to mount the amps and run the wiring to them. I attached the amps using #8 gauge machine screws and T-nuts. Damn, do I like using T-nuts! They feel so secure.










As I began mounting the amp board, I realized just how heavy and unwieldy the thing is with two amps on it. It was a total pain to get it up in position and screwed down. As I got it up, I realized that the top needed more bracing. So I attached two extra L-braces (one per side) to the top, screwing the top into the metal using sheemetal screws and the bottom into the amp board using wood screws. The wood screws I had were too long, so I ended up using a nut to use up some of the length of the nuts.

My newly-received 3Sixty.2 got a place on the back of the amp board in the center. I can see the unit when I remove the passthrough cover.

Here is the back of the amp board, all mounted and ready to rock (click for larger pic):



Yes that's extra power wire on the right which I ought to trim by now. I originally left extra length to allow flexibility if I wanted to route it elsewhere.

I used barrier strips on the back to make it easier to disconnect and remove the amp board (although I don't anticipate doing so).

So here is the finished look of the trunk:










I want to swap out the red RCA cable for something better-looking, but that's a very low-priority item now. This is way cleaner than what my trunk used to look like. All that space on the bottom of the back of the trunk is now usable.

The back seats are back on and you can't see any of the other side of the board.


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

*New tweeters*

I got the new tweeters in the mail:










SEAS 27TAFNC/G. I decided to give them a shot, well, since they are not very expensive.

I mounted the tweeters to the sail panels, to the metal, instead of to the pod itself:










I had sail panel covers from an RX-8 with the Bose radio (mine had the stock base radio), and they went over the tweeters fine:










I would've left it that way, except that the Bose pods made the tweets sound much more closed in. The tweets didn't sound nearly as open and there were some funky resonances added in... I decided to gut my old stock pods instead and cut large openings in them:

*(poor install alert!)*










OK, that looks pretty coarse/poor, but I plan to stretch speaker grille cloth over them and cover things up to look nice. These new pods almost don't change the sound of the tweeters. I still feel they change it just a touch because of the plastic on the top middle that's right next to the tweeters--I probably need to put a strip of Ensolite there to eliminate reflections. Still, it's a huge improvement over the Bose covers.

Hopefully, in the near future, I will post pics with speaker grille cloth-covered sail panel pods.

I've been tuning the system with the 3Sixty.2 and been breaking in the new tweeters. I will post more info on all that later.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

*Re: New tweeters*

Looking good Oleg, can't wait to hear it.


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## kaineilsen (Jan 31, 2007)

So what did you eventually do about the Navone LOC? Did you keep using it or replace it with something better?

I have one in my car and my bass response is anemic at best...


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## aneonrider (Apr 28, 2007)

A quick look indicated he went with a RF 360.2


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## kaineilsen (Jan 31, 2007)

aneonrider said:


> A quick look indicated he went with a RF 360.2


Well heck...serves me right for not looking...

Don't mean to thread jack, but has anyone found an inexpensive replacement for the Navone LOC that doesn't suck?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Wow, that wiring hurts my feelings. I'm sure it's funtional but it really is a mess. A few screw down cable clamps and some zip ties coupled with a possible reposition of the distro block would do wonders for that install. You could even use some Streetwires clip-its.


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

nice


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> Wow, that wiring hurts my feelings. I'm sure it's funtional but it really is a mess. A few screw down cable clamps and some zip ties coupled with a possible reposition of the distro block would do wonders for that install. You could even use some Streetwires clip-its.


Yeah, it is quite a mess. Clean-up is on the TODO list, but I have some higher priority things, such as deadening the doors more (now that I have more bass in 'em).


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## Astral (Sep 6, 2005)

kaineilsen said:


> Well heck...serves me right for not looking...
> 
> Don't mean to thread jack, but has anyone found an inexpensive replacement for the Navone LOC that doesn't suck?


IMO, any active AudioControl unit with balanced line inputs will do the trick. Also, you may be able to plug it in directly into your amp's RCA input, if your headunit outputs a differential signal, the amps supports balanced inputs and you don't exceed the input voltage limits of the amp. For example, my HU can be plugged in directly into the RCAs of any JL Audio slash amp and the rear channels worked fine with my Alpine MRD-M1005, although I was definitely on the limit of the input sensitivity of the amp (had gains down at lowest at 8V peak, HU outputs 10V peak at max vol).


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Astral said:


> Yeah, it is quite a mess. Clean-up is on the TODO list, but I have some higher priority things, such as deadening the doors more (now that I have more bass in 'em).


I'm glad you took my post as constructive. I reread it and it sounded a bit mean so I wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't tying to slam you or anything. Definitely get some pics after you do the clean-up. I LOVE pics of neat wiring. I have OCD about that something fierce. Hell, my W205/bypass install alone has about 30 zipties.


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## annoyingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

I would be interested to see the frequency response if you were to make a very simple LOC, like a 2-resistor voltage divider. I mean, the resistors should be purely resistive (duh), and shouldn't change value dependant on frequency.

I bet it would be flat, and would provide people with a cheap LOC solution.

For example, 

+ terminal
|
R 10kohm resistor
|
+ center tap to amplifier.
|
R 2kohm ressitor
|
- terminal

Should this not provide a suitable signal into the amplifier that should be relatively frequency independant? The only problem I see is the extremely small load on the HU, but I don't see that as a problem. I mean, a line level input on an amp shouldn't be that low of a resistance either.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

If it were that easy, I'm sure someone else would have thought of it already and tried it.


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## czar (Aug 1, 2009)

o wow, was looking for others who may have done a rx8, 

what brand harness were those u used for the radio, metra ?


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