# 2021 Box Builds!! Two 12" Brahmas & one 15" Brahma



## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Just some simple sealed boxes I'm working on right now - first, one for a pair of 12" Brahmas & next, a sealed box for a 15" Brahma. Power is 2,000 @ 2 ohm from an Mmats M2000.2. 

The two 12"s will get 1.15 cuft each, in separate chambers. As always, 3/4" Baltic Birch... 










I know, I know. I didn't miter the joints properly... I didn't feel like doing all kinds of geometry!  



















This box doesn't really need much bracing as the individual panel runs are pretty short, BUT I decided to have some fun with some wood scraps!



















All the joints are really clean and tight, I'm extremely ocd about that. I don't like to fill in cracks, if it doesn't fit tight I cut another board... 

That's as far as I got for now. It will be finished with carpet, perforated aluminum and red LEDs... 

The destination:


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Hmmm nice 👍 .. got 45-degrees angle/design there like a gaming product 🤩


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

diy.phil said:


> Hmmm nice 👍 .. got 45-degrees angle/design there like a gaming product 🤩


Hmmmmm, you're right. I never thought about that...


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

subscribed. 🍿


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Regarding the upcoming 15" box build... I'm pushing it trying to get the 3.4 cu.ft in my little 2 door Jeep. I'm thinking of facing the sub towards the tailgate? Is that good or bad for sound, compared to aiming it forward nearly pressed up against the back of the seat? 

Btw, here are the 15" Brahma specs:





















Also, I had a weird idea to make a sealed/ported box with a panel that swapped out to an external, pvc pipe/port! Now do you see why I don't drink or do drugs?!


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

I have my sub/box facing the back panel in both my CX5 and in my Sienna and it works well, especially with cabin gain. An external port for a bass reflex box is nothing new and can save a lot of space because you don’t have to subtract the ports displacement from within the box, which makes for tidier box dimensions. 

You can also always build a test box too to try out different positions before you commit to one. A DSP also helps with minor phase adjustment.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

JCsAudio said:


> I have my sub/box facing the back panel in both my CX5 and in my Sienna and it works well, especially with cabin gain. An external port for a bass reflex box is nothing new and can save a lot of space because you don’t have to subtract the ports displacement from within the box, which makes for tidier box dimensions.
> 
> You can also always build a test box too to try out different positions before you commit to one. A DSP also helps with minor phase adjustment.


I was thinking I could simply have a square panel that either bolted in a flat cover, OR bolted in a pvc port.
Interestingly, the 15" Brahma has similar recommendations both sealed and ported (not saying both are necessarily optimal).

Now that I think about it, despite having a lot of different set-ups, I've never had a rear facing sub. I've had forward, up and down, but not rear facing.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Rear facing generally gives you more output.


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

i would face the sub towards the rear if you can.
hope you like the pair of brahma 12s. i have a pair of dual 2 being run at 2 ohms on a crossfire c7-3k. enclosure is around 4 cu ft tuned around 30hz. i have an extra dual 2. maybe down the road i'll try 3 of them sealed to see how i like it.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> Rear facing generally gives you more output.



Interesting... Rear facing is the most convenient for building the box, too. So rear it is.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Interesting... Rear facing is the most convenient for building the box, too. So rear it is.


What did you do with that beast of a sub you had?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

pw91686 said:


> i would face the sub towards the rear if you can.
> hope you like the pair of brahma 12s. i have a pair of dual 2 being run at 2 ohms on a crossfire c7-3k. enclosure is around 4 cu ft tuned around 30hz. i have an extra dual 2. maybe down the road i'll try 3 of them sealed to see how i like it.


Nice! What is that amp rated @ 2 ohm?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> What did you do with that beast of a sub you had?


Still have it. I'm just doing some experimenting to see what I like better...  

The 10" Hutchinson in a small-ish ported enclosure, vs. two 12" Brahmas in a small-ish sealed enclosure, vs. one 15" Brahma in a large sealed (and maybe ported enclosure).


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

I hope you're able to build the sealed/ported modular 15" box. Basically you're thinking of mounting the "port panel" similar to how one would mount a plexi window?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> I hope you're able to build the sealed/ported modular 15" box. Basically you're thinking of mounting the "port panel" similar to how one would mount a plexi window?


Yes, exactly. 

Like the window in my current sub box, here is a sorta step by step:


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

The two 12s arrived tonight, and they are big, beautiful drivers! I kinda regret building the box down firing, it'd be cool to see these beasts. 🤔
Adires website needs to show better pictures, they do not do them justice at all...


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

DavidRam said:


> Regarding the upcoming 15" box build... I'm pushing it trying to get the 3.4 cu.ft in my little 2 door Jeep. I'm thinking of facing the sub towards the tailgate? Is that good or bad for sound, compared to aiming it forward nearly pressed up against the back of the seat?
> 
> Btw, here are the 15" Brahma specs:
> 
> ...


It's not a weird idea, they do that with home theater subs, and I have done convertible/tuneable enclosures in cars.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

DavidRam said:


> Regarding the upcoming 15" box build... I'm pushing it trying to get the 3.4 cu.ft in my little 2 door Jeep. I'm thinking of facing the sub towards the tailgate? Is that good or bad for sound, compared to aiming it forward nearly pressed up against the back of the seat?
> 
> Btw, here are the 15" Brahma specs:
> 
> ...


Although, the XBL^2 subs tend to like large, very long ports.


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## Coolhand20th (Aug 13, 2020)

Nicely done! Wanna build my next box for my 2 12" SSA Icons! lol.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ckirocz28 said:


> Although, the XBL^2 subs tend to like large, very long ports.


Yes, gonna have to have it modeled to see if I can even fit a port, as the box itself is gonna take up almost the entire trunk volume... Which would make the port have to stick up and be visible through the rear windows. 
Or I could poke it out of the roof like a periscope!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Coolhand20th said:


> Nicely done! Wanna build my next box for my 2 12" SSA Icons! lol.


Thanks! I love building boxes, but not for money! Lol


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## Coolhand20th (Aug 13, 2020)

Who said anything about money  lol. Hard for me to build boxes being physically disabled and not having the proper equipment. I did mine last time but next time I am just going to take the design plans and have Home Depot (I know the guy that does the cuts there so I know they will be right) and just bring it home & put it together vs the trouble I went through this fall. Just not able to do that stuff anymore.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

DavidRam said:


> Yes, gonna have to have it modeled to see if I can even fit a port, as the box itself is gonna take up almost the entire trunk volume... Which would make the port have to stick up and be visible through the rear windows.
> Or I could poke it out of the roof like a periscope!


That's what I was picturing, a port that looks like a periscope/snorkel, it is a Jeep.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

ckirocz28 said:


> That's what I was picturing, a port that looks like a periscope/snorkel, it is a Jeep.


Yep, I'll just tell the "Jeep guys", that I go deeper than they do, hence the roof mounted snorkel! 💥


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Coolhand20th said:


> Who said anything about money  lol. Hard for me to build boxes being physically disabled and not having the proper equipment. I did mine last time but next time I am just going to take the design plans and have Home Depot (I know the guy that does the cuts there so I know they will be right) and just bring it home & put it together vs the trouble I went through this fall. Just not able to do that stuff anymore.


If you were local I'd build you a box in a heart beat... My list of friends and neighbors that have my subs in their cars is growing. 👍


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I'm installing this one right now


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## Coolhand20th (Aug 13, 2020)

Thanks! Yeah I am in Northern Wisconsin 20 minutes from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. No one around here runs or builds boxes except in Green Bay and tbh I would only trust one shop there in town. But they charge an arm, a leg and sometimes both legs for any kind of custom box. They know they have the stuff cornered and they charge for it.


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

DavidRam said:


> Nice! What is that amp rated @ 2 ohm?


well, its rated 2200 watts @ 2 ohm. but on the dyno, bigdwiz tested one and it did over 3200 watts certified @ 2 ohms.





i can definitely smell some coil when i crank it...


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

David, In the case of the Brahma 15, I would not put too much effort into a ported box for that driver. It appears from the model that it suits a sealed box better than a bass reflex box. Here is a picture of the two compared on 1200 watts. Notice how there isn't much gain in SPL down low and where there is gain is where cabin gain normally occurs, so you would have to remove that with a DSP anyway. In my opinion, I would concentrate on making a nice sealed box for that driver only. If you were into SPL competition, well then the ported box makes more sense in this case but not if you are going to try and use a DSP with a target curve to tune it down with cabin gain. If you didn't have enough amplifier power then the ported box would also make more sense but you have twice the power that the driver can safely take over a long period of time, at least thermally anyway. I modeled both on 1200 watts in 3.4 cu ft with the fb at 30.43 Hz.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

JCsAudio said:


> David, In the case of the Brahma 15, I would not put too much effort into a ported box for that driver. It appears from the model that it suits a sealed box better than a bass reflex box. Here is a picture of the two compared on 1200 watts. Notice how there isn't much gain in SPL down low and where there is gain is where cabin gain normally occurs, so you would have to remove that with a DSP anyway. In my opinion, I would concentrate on making a nice sealed box for that driver only. If you were into SPL competition, well then the ported box makes more sense in this case but not if you are going to try and use a DSP with a target curve to tune it down with cabin gain. If you didn't have enough amplifier power then the ported box would also make more sense but you have twice the power that the driver can safely take over a long period of time, at least thermally anyway. I modeled both on 1200 watts in 3.4 cu ft with the fb at 30.43 Hz.
> View attachment 288043



Thanks! You simplified my build! I'll take your advise and focus on making a really solid, sealed box for the 15".


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

A little progress:

Step outs to fit the big beasts


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

nice!!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Almost done


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

Beautiful! What are your plans for the feet?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> Beautiful! What are your plans for the feet?


Thanks! Two in the back that will bolt down, and one in the front/center between the subs... The box is 15" high and the rear feet are 2.75". With the angle at the top, it clears the lip on the window by about 1/4", enough for carpet!


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

DavidRam said:


> Thanks! Two in the back that will bolt done, and one in the front/center between the subs... The box is 15" high and the rear feet are 2.75". With the angle at the top, it clears the lip on the window by about 1/4", enough for carpet!


Nice. It looks like the bottom piece of your foot is shaped around the dip (where the cargo tub cover goes). That is bad-ass. Coming from a guy stressing about the foot design his upcoming box for the same vehicle.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> Nice. It looks like the bottom piece of your foot is shaped around the dip (where the cargo tub cover goes). That is bad-ass. Coming from a guy stressing about the foot design his upcoming box for the same vehicle.


Thanks!
Those piece of wood are not at all the feet. I used them to determine the height of the feet...


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

Gonna sound awesome! 🔊


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Fedex dropped the 15" off today, I can't wait to get home to see it. Keep in mind this is my first "big" sub, hence the excitement!

I should take pics of it next to a 12".


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> Fedex dropped the 15" off today, I can't wait to get home to see it. Keep in mind this is my first "big" sub, hence the excitement!
> 
> I should take pics of it next to a 12".


Never owned a 15", but i remember when my 18" was delivered for my HT. You are in for some fun!!!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> Never owned a 15", but i remember when my 18" was delivered for my HT. You are in for some fun!!!
> View attachment 288583


Man, that's huge... The wheels on my Jeep are the same diameter as your sub! Lol


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Done for now... Time for a test bump. I'll cover it later.

Push terminals all around:


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Btw, I left the rubber gaskets off for the final assembly to keep them pristine...


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

nice spacing between the screws and the surround


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> nice spacing between the screws and the surround


Thank you! The rubber gasket will just about fill it...


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## Coolhand20th (Aug 13, 2020)

Nicely done. I am doing a new setup as well. 2 12" Fi Xv3's or 2 12" DC Audio Level 3 2.1s. Just sitting here waiting on that check to arrive and make a decision with my box designer who has done a couple thousand boxes at this point and did it professionally.


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

Damn man! Amazing.


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## SNCTMPL (Nov 23, 2014)

Coolhand20th said:


> Nicely done. I am doing a new setup as well. 2 12" Fi Xv3's or 2 12" DC Audio Level 3 2.1s. Just sitting here waiting on that check to arrive and make a decision with my box designer who has done a couple thousand boxes at this point and did it professionally.


Those new xv3’s look cool, I just got 2-12” ssd’s from Fi, nice quality subs. I was going to go with the DC level 3’s, but having a hard time getting them right now.


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## Coolhand20th (Aug 13, 2020)

Actually the DC Level 3 12" 2.1s are available through eBay right now for 280 a piece. He thinks I should go with the Fi Xv3's over the DC Level 3 2.1s as he said they are a better subwoofer. I have a Cab-22 that puts out 2,200 certified at 1ohm but has tested at 2,450 certified at 1ohm. I thought about the SSD's as well. But the cost is higher 280 vs 209 and the RMS is 1,500 vs 1,000. Idk if my amplifier can handle them and I just got it so not feeling like upgrading but I could buy another and strap them if I wanted to.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> Damn man! Amazing.


I got the aluminum bits in, the perforated sheet, and the angle for the feet. The angle is 3/8" thick which is massive!


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

got em playing?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

pw91686 said:


> got em playing?



I will today!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Ok, so I fired it up, and here are my initial impressions BEFORE touching anything in the tune:
The two 12s easily have the same or more output than the Hutchinson. Also, without even measuring I can tell they have a much flatter frequency response, they neither peak nor fall off much anywhere to my ears...
Keep in mind that is at the same settings that Dirac Live gave the Hutchinson. After adjusting crossovers and retuning with DL, who knows what they will do! 
They are smooth sounding subs but will absolutely kick your butt!
Bad news, I've got some new rattles...


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I think I have come to the conclusion that I like the sound of sealed better than ported. To me it seems tighter, cleaner, more precise, etc..


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

DavidRam said:


> I think I have come to the conclusion that I like the sound of sealed better than ported. To me it seems tighter, cleaner, more precise, etc..


Watch out! Some people think those are fightin' words! Not me though.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

DavidRam said:


> I think I have come to the conclusion that I like the sound of sealed better than ported. To me it seems tighter, cleaner, more precise, etc..


I ran a little experiment (as you know already) comparing a GB12 sealed to a GB12 ported and using a DSP to make the ported box sound like the sealed box with the exception of the lowest frequencies well below 25 Hz. I did this as a blind test with a few Anonymous members at a meet by switching the boxes back to back with each other while playing certain music. Some couldn’t tell, some preferred the ported box, and some preferred the sealed, but none stood out as a clear winner. Conclusion: tuning makes more of a difference, sealed is easier to tune, Ported makes the most SPL on the least power.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

After a little more SQ and bass heavy listening this morning, I am still convinced that in all genres the two 12s sound better than the Hutchinson. BUT I found one exception... This song 



 is one of my bass demo songs. At full tilt the Hutchinson gives you a more fun and intense SPL experience. The Brahmas sound a little restricted, if that makes sense, whereas the Hutchinson goes nuts. Of course I haven't touched the tune yet, so it's not really a fair comparison yet.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

David, you’re going to end up with the same problem I have. You say to yourself “I will buy these to try them out thinking you will just sell the ones you don’t like” but then you like each one for difference reasons and you end up with a subwoofer hoarding problem. 🙃


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

JCsAudio said:


> David, you’re going to end up with the same problem I have. You say to yourself “I will buy these to try them out thinking you will just sell the ones you don’t like” but then you like each one for difference reasons and you end up with a subwoofer hoarding problem. 🙃


Good thing the MiniDSP has 4 presets.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Hutchinson 10 ported (red) vs Brahma sealed 12 x2 in 1.58 cu ft (orange) on 1000 watts. Don't forget those new subs need to break in before they get louder down low.


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

He's got 2000 watts total. Not sure if that matters when comparing both.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

JCsAudio said:


> David, you’re going to end up with the same problem I have. You say to yourself “I will buy these to try them out thinking you will just sell the ones you don’t like” but then you like each one for difference reasons and you end up with a subwoofer hoarding problem. 🙃


Lol!
I was just saying that to Anu2g, next week I'll have 4 subs in enclosures in my garage and one car!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

JCsAudio said:


> Hutchinson 10 ported (red) vs Brahma sealed 12 x2 in 1.58 cu ft (orange) on 1000 watts. Don't forget those new subs need to break in before they get louder down low.
> 
> View attachment 289119



Thanks! The Brahama box ended up at 1.164 per sub gross each.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Hutchinson 10 ported 1.362 cu ft fb = 33.07 (red), Brahma sealed 12 x2 at 2.328 cu ft total net (orange), Brahma 15 sealed 3.339 cu ft (green) all on 2000 watts. 










Excursion also. 










Note, even though the Brahma 15 excursion isn't exceeded on 2000 watts it is twice the recommended power for the 15 and it is not known how the voice coil will handle that long term thermally.


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

JCsAudio said:


> Hutchinson 10 ported 1.362 cu ft fb = 33.07 (red), Brahma sealed 12 x2 at 2.328 cu ft total net (orange), Brahma 15 sealed 3.339 cu ft (green) all on 2000 watts.
> 
> View attachment 289126
> 
> ...


Nice analysis. Is he actually going to be able to fit 3.339 cubes for the 15"? I doubt it, but if he can, that would be amazing. Personally, I'd be curious to see how that 15 does, relative to the other setups, at its recommend power. But just for fun.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

JCsAudio said:


> Hutchinson 10 ported 1.362 cu ft fb = 33.07 (red), Brahma sealed 12 x2 at 2.328 cu ft total net (orange), Brahma 15 sealed 3.339 cu ft (green) all on 2000 watts.
> 
> View attachment 289126
> 
> ...


Awesome comparison, John! Thanks!

I'm willing to take my chances with the 15", after all this IS an experiment!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> Nice analysis. Is he actually going to be able to fit 3.339 cubes for the 15"? I doubt it, but if he can, that would be amazing. Personally, I'd be curious to see how that 15 does, relative to the other setups, at its recommend power. But just for fun.


Yes, I'll be able to fit 3.4 cuft... I'll post my plans on how soon.


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## SmallSoldier (Aug 8, 2007)

DavidRam said:


> If you were local I'd build you a box in a heart beat... My list of friends and neighbors that have my subs in their cars is growing.


I would make the drive if I had a chance! You’ve got skills 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

SmallSoldier said:


> I would make the drive if I had a chance! You’ve got skills
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thank you!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

This is a rough drawing of how I will get to 3.4 cuft for the 15"...


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

DavidRam said:


> After a little more SQ and bass heavy listening this morning, I am still convinced that in all genres the two 12s sound better than the Hutchinson. BUT I found one exception... This song
> 
> 
> 
> is one of my bass demo songs. At full tilt the Hutchinson gives you a more fun and intense SPL experience. The Brahmas sound a little restricted, if that makes sense, whereas the Hutchinson goes nuts. Of course I haven't touched the tune yet, so it's not really a fair comparison yet.


That song sounds pretty good in my truck. I tried it on the way home today. I will have to try it in my CX5. The Brahmas should have less distortion than the Hutchinson, or at least in theory they should. It’s impressive that the little Hutchinson 10 is able to keep pace with two 12’s actually. 



Anu2g said:


> Nice analysis. Is he actually going to be able to fit 3.339 cubes for the 15"? I doubt it, but if he can, that would be amazing. Personally, I'd be curious to see how that 15 does, relative to the other setups, at its recommend power. But just for fun.


I think he is going to like the 15 more than the two twelves.  



DavidRam said:


> Awesome comparison, John! Thanks!
> 
> I'm willing to take my chances with the 15", after all this IS an experiment!


My vote is for the 15 just for it’s ability to blend better and less distortion from less cone excursion.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

JCsAudio said:


> That song sounds pretty good in my truck. I tried it on the way home today. I will have to try it in my CX5. The Brahmas should have less distortion than the Hutchinson, or at least in theory they should. It’s impressive that the little Hutchinson 10 is able to keep pace with two 12’s actually.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes! I hope I am not coming across as negative toward the Hutchinson... As far as a strong balance between SQ and SPL, the Brahmas win hands down, but the Hutchinson could be the winner in SPL if you just want brutal output out of single 10".


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

DavidRam said:


> Yes! I hope I am not coming across as negative toward the Hutchinson... As far as a strong balance between SQ and SPL, the Brahmas win hands down, but the Hutchinson could be the winner in SPL if you just want brutal output out of single 10".


Not to me, I kind of figured the Hutchinson was more of an SPL subwoofer long ago but that doesn’t mean it can’t sound good either if used and tuned properly. I’ve got some $30 subwoofers that if used within their limits sound pretty good. Wish I could have the opportunity to get a listen to that beast but 2000 miles of separation between us makes that not feasible.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

JCsAudio said:


> Not to me, I kind of figured the Hutchinson was more of an SPL subwoofer long ago but that doesn’t mean it can’t sound good either if used and tuned properly. I’ve got some $30 subwoofers that if used within their limits sound pretty good. Wish I could have the opportunity to get a listen to that beast but 2000 miles of separation between us makes that not feasible.



Motivation?!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

JCsAudio said:


> Not to me, I kind of figured the Hutchinson was more of an SPL subwoofer long ago but that doesn’t mean it can’t sound good either if used and tuned properly. I’ve got some $30 subwoofers that if used within their limits sound pretty good. Wish I could have the opportunity to get a listen to that beast but 2000 miles of separation between us makes that not feasible.



Really, this is a comparison about what I like the best, not about which sub is "better"... I am sure I prefer the sound of sealed over ported, though. So it is now between the 15" and the two 12"s.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

Wow nice weather there! Put down the phone and unplug your internet for 3 days!!!


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

DavidRam said:


> Motivation?!
> 
> It would be nice but if I was going to move to another state it wouldn’t be from liberal place to another and it would have to be cheaper to live there too. Florida actually looks pretty good right now.


Here the weather I deal with is crap but I have the luxury of a heated two car garage to build and tune in. 🥵😉







🥶 

With all the salt they use on the roads around hear I can imagine if you lived here that you would be losing your mind as that salt would just eats away the metal on that nice jeep you have. 



DavidRam said:


> Really, this is a comparison about what I like the best, not about which sub is "better"... I am sure I prefer the sound of sealed over ported, though. So it is now between the 15" and the two 12"s.


If I took one of those 12’s and put it in a sealed box and one in a ported box and used the DSP to match their response to each other I guarantee you would not be able to tell the difference between them. 😮


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

JCsAudio said:


> Here the weather I deal with is crap but I have the luxury of a heated two car garage to build and tune in. 🥵😉
> 
> View attachment 289227
> 🥶
> ...



Fair enough. Like I said, it really isn't a fair comparison until the 12s are tuned. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing in a ported box that I don't think you can tune out, is that effect were the bass is slightly delayed or late?


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

DavidRam said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing in a ported box that I don't think you can tune out, is that effect were the bass is slightly delayed or late?


You have to ask yourself though if it actually matters? I’m guessing you are referring to group delay. If the box is tuned so low that you can’t hear it, and if I can make a ported box sound almost exactly like a sealed box, then does it matter? If you get good cohesion at the midbass/subwoofer crossover point then does it matter? In my case I can’t tell a difference. 

To be honest, some could tell a difference in those back to back comparisons but that was because I didn’t match the frequency response of the sealed box to the ported box tuning frequency below the tuning frequency, where the sealed box has more output at the very lowest subsonic frequencies. I purposely let the sealed box have more low end extension below fb, and even then some could not tell the difference. You might say, well I want the sealed box then because it hits lower, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it sounds better. The smooth 24 db roll off of the ported box makes the bass actually sound clean and smooth. The sealed box can give the impression of more of a boomy sound which might not sound as good in my vehicle.

Now the Brahma wouldn’t actually be a good candidate to compare in a sealed box vs ported box in my opinion because I don’t think the Brahma will do as well in a ported box, even though you can use it that way. The GB12 does very well in both types though so it’s easy to compare them that way. 

Then there is the argument that a ported box that is tuned low and has DSP intervention to remove cabin gain up higher controls subwoofer excursion better than a sealed box, which leads to less distortion. So if you have a smaller Subwoofer and less power available, then you might elect to use a ported configuration so you get the most SPL on the least power available and with the least distortion. You don’t have to push as much power to a smaller subwoofer in a ported box to get the same output as a larger subwoofer in a sealed box. 

If you have a large subwoofer and lots of power to spare then you might want to go with a sealed configuration because in most cases the box required will be smaller. With a 15” subwoofer in a sealed box you may still have to trim output significantly to blend it with the front stage, unless you really have something crazy up front and you want ear bleeding loud. 

Then there is tuning. I can tell you that it is easier to tune a sealed GB12 vs a ported GB12. This is mainly because I have to remove more output from the ported box, but it does also make it a little more challenging at the crossover sometimes and maybe. This could be group delay or maybe something else, but ultimately, I was able to get just as good cohesion at the crossover with the ported box as I was able to with the sealed box.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

JCsAudio said:


> You have to ask yourself though if it actually matters? I’m guessing you are referring to group delay. If the box is tuned so low that you can’t hear it, and if I can make a ported box sound almost exactly like a sealed box, then does it matter? If you get good cohesion at the midbass/subwoofer crossover point then does it matter? In my case I can’t tell a difference.
> 
> To be honest, some could tell a difference in those back to back comparisons but that was because I didn’t match the frequency response of the sealed box to the ported box tuning frequency below the tuning frequency, where the sealed box has more output at the very lowest subsonic frequencies. I purposely let the sealed box have more low end extension below fb, and even then some could not tell the difference. You might say, well I want the sealed box then because it hits lower, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it sounds better. The smooth 24 db roll off of the ported box makes the bass actually sound clean and smooth. The sealed box can give the impression of more of a boomy sound which might not sound as good in my vehicle.
> 
> ...


Good stuff, man!!! 

When Truthunter has time, we'll redo the tune and see what it sounds like then... I don't do ANY tuning at all anymore. 

The fun thing is I'll have presets for 3 boxes and I can easily compare back to back!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I think this is the final design for the 15"... I'm taking some design elements from the girly box that I built with the panels and lights recessed inside them, except the glow will be limited to around the subwoofer itself.

The gap that will be visible around the sub will be brushed aluminum. Also, I am going to have the sub hang off of the box a little bit.


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

What do you mean by "hanging down outside of the box". Does that mean sticking out _and _angled downwards a bit?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> What do you mean by "hanging down outside of the box". Does that mean sticking out _and _angled downwards a bit?


Check out the drawing where the red marker hangs a little below the box... that is what I'm talking about. The bottom of the sub will hang below the box in a radius. I'm just not very good at drawing! Lol


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

DavidRam said:


> Check out the drawing where the red marker hangs a little below the box... that is what I'm talking about. The bottom of the sub will hang below the box in a radius. I'm just not very good at drawing! Lol


Ah, I see it now! Nice.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> Ah, I see it now! Nice.


I know it's subtle, but it will be more visible on the box than in the drawing.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Got started on the box for the 15". You can see how tight the depth is and how hard it is to get 3.4 cuft in a 2 door Wrangler trunk... That board is the back panel to the box.


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Wow that's tight but looks do-able! Have you thought about panels rattling? What kinda panel flex you thinking? That 15;s gonna be violent!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

DaveG said:


> Wow that's tight but looks do-able! Have you thought about panels rattling? What kinda panel flex you thinking? That 15;s gonna be violent!


My rattles increased with the two 12"s, so I'll have to go through the Jeep and deaden some panels... 
Let's see if it gets worse with the 15".


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

DaveG said:


> Wow that's tight but looks do-able! Have you thought about panels rattling? What kinda panel flex you thinking? That 15;s gonna be violent!


Or were you referring to the box panels? There will be lots of bracing as the big panels are 24" x 36".


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

DavidRam said:


> Or were you referring to the box panels? There will be lots of bracing as the big panels are 24" x 36".


No, I've seen your box builds and I think of all the things to worry about... panel flex in one of YOUR boxes should be the least of them! Solid & well built! I'm talking body panels and primarily the rear door/hatch (whatever Jeep owners call it) vibrating like crazy! Might be time for some lead sheeting?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

DaveG said:


> No, I've seen your box builds and I think of all the things to worry about... panel flex in one of YOUR boxes should be the least of them! Solid & well built! I'm talking body panels and primarily the rear door/hatch (whatever Jeep owners call it) vibrating like crazy! Might be time for some lead sheeting?



Haha, thanks! Yes, I'll definitely have to go through the Jeep and silence some noise. It's funny, as well as the Hutchinson performed, I did not have any rattles... 
I do think I need to do a better job of decoupling the sub box from the Jeep. The Hutchinson's box had rubber feet, 2 layers of carpet, one layer of CLD and one layer of CCF, between it and the Jeep.


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

DavidRam said:


> Haha, thanks! Yes, I'll definitely have to go through the Jeep and silence some noise. It's funny, as well as the Hutchinson performed, I did not have any rattles...
> I do think I need to do a better job of decoupling the sub box from the Jeep. The Hutchinson's box had rubber feet, 2 layers of carpet, one layer of CLD and one layer of CCF, between it and the Jeep.


You're making me nervous for my build, now. Granted I only have 800w to the sub. But I may need to preemptively follow your lead here.

Looking forward to seeing what you do with the tailgate, and probably trying to copy it


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> You're making me nervous for my build, now. Granted I only have 800w to the sub. But I may need to preemptively follow your lead here.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing what you do with the tailgate, and probably trying to copy it


I've put a little deadening on it, and I'll probably just add an adhesive backed covering of some sorts and call it good. I can't afford to loose any depth...


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

This will be more interesting for the Jeep guys... Here is how I am handling that protrusion in the door on this one (compared to the angle I put in the previous box). I did this try to maximize the air space, but then I measure everything and it's a little too big! Lol. It's 3.824 cuft gross (minus .17 sub displacement and bracing), and I am shooting for 3.4 net. 
I'll just add a ton of bracing to fill it up a bit... 

The steps are for some strong bracing compared to just the angled under side of a single panel...


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

Nice! You're actually extending past the protrusion point.

I wonder if you could fit 2 12s ported, now that you've figured out how to get more airspace


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> Nice! You're actually extending past the protrusion point.
> 
> I wonder if you could fit 2 12s ported, now that you've figured out how to get more airspace


I'm sure I could, I have a really good feel for the wonky-ness of this Jeep's trunk, now. The only thing I don't like about the height of this box, is that it almost reached the top of the seat back, and it sticks up into the window.


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

DavidRam said:


> I'm sure I could, I have a really good feel for the wonky-ness of this Jeep's trunk, now. The only thing I don't like about the height of this box, is that it almost reached the top of the seat back, and it sticks up into the window.


So at least it doesn't impede your rear-view, since it's still below the seat back, but a passerby could see it if they are looking in the back


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

You could disguise it somehow; maybe put some toolbox latches on the top or something, hah


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> You could disguise it somehow; maybe put some toolbox latches on the top or something, hah


Well, the tint is dark enough to where I'm not worried about it getting attention... I could have taken 1 or 2" off of the height, though, but that would still leave it visible through the window.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

A little progress... This box is turning out to be the most ANNOYING I have ever built. I just realized yesterday, that the rear window's wiper's motor sticks out into the box's space, so I'll have to cut into the box to accommodate that.


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

Looking good. I think this is the first box I've seen with this kind of aspect ratio.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

And done... I'm gonna let the glue completely dry, so I won't be able to fire it for a day or two. This box was a pain, but it came out ok, I think.

Angle City, huh?!?!


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

It's like when the iPhone X came out, and they introduced the "notch".

Looks great, man!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)




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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

Niiiice. Give it a test bump yet? Easy on those gains!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> Niiiice. Give it a test bump yet? Easy on those gains!


Not yet, I put it in last night at 10pm... Today's the day, though.


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## SmallSoldier (Aug 8, 2007)

DavidRam said:


> Not yet, I put it in last night at 10pm... Today's the day, though.


That’s pretty cool!

Thinking about my sub stage right now and paying a lot of attention to your results... It looks badass


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

SmallSoldier said:


> That’s pretty cool!
> 
> Thinking about my sub stage right now and paying a lot of attention to your results... It looks badass
> 
> ...


Thanks! I don't know how anything can top the two 12"s, but I'm keeping an open mind and I can't wait to hear my first 15" sub.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

^^^ ???


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

DavidRam said:


> ^^^ ???


Hahah. You could do it. Just use a leather or vinyl to put the grip, and cut a new trim ring around the lense/driver. Maybe white carpeting for the flash?


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## SmallSoldier (Aug 8, 2007)

DavidRam said:


> Thanks! I don't know how anything can top the two 12"s, but I'm keeping an open mind and I can't wait to hear my first 15" sub.


I currently have a 10’’ sub that was planning on using, but really considering going with a 12’’ and use a Brahma if I do go that route... Beyond how fun it has to be to try different subs in your setup, the most impressive part is your building skills... Those boxes look amazing!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

SmallSoldier said:


> I currently have a 10’’ sub that was planning on using, but really considering going with a 12’’ and use a Brahma if I do go that route... Beyond how fun it has to be to try different subs in your setup, the most impressive part is your building skills... Those boxes look amazing!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hey, thanks a lot man! I really enjoy building boxes...


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

We have a preliminary verdict:

The 15" sounds really good and gets really loud while maintaining its composure. I will keep listening for next few days while it breaks in...

However, it can't touch the two 12"s. There is a certain impact the 12"s have that the 15" can't beat. So far the 15" has not been able to do better than 12"s in any of the songs I have listened to, and it is missing some of the brutal impact the 12"s have.


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

How does the 1 15" sealed Brahma sound in comparison to the 1 10" ported NDFEB? That comparison is interesting IMHO because your current tune is for the 10" ported NDFEB.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> How does the 1 15" sealed Brahma sound in comparison to the 1 10" ported NDFEB? That comparison is interesting IMHO because your current tune is for the 10" ported NDFEB.


The 15" definitely goes lower than the 10", but I haven't pushed the 15" yet, to see how it would compare output wise.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> We have a preliminary verdict:
> 
> The 15" sounds really good and gets really loud while maintaining its composure. I will keep listening for next few days while it breaks in...
> 
> However, it can't touch the two 12"s. There is a certain impact the 12"s have that the 15" can't beat. So far the 15" has not been able to do better than 12"s in any of the songs I have listened to, and it is missing some of the brutal impact the 12"s have.


Very interesting test. I know exactly what you're referring to in describing the single 15". 

I'll be interested to see what you end up with, though I bet I already know  If/when I swap my setup, it'll probably be two 12"'s sealed, though two 15's would be nice too


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Chris12 said:


> Very interesting test. I know exactly what you're referring to in describing the single 15".
> 
> I'll be interested to see what you end up with, though I bet I already know  If/when I swap my setup, it'll probably be two 12"'s sealed, though two 15's would be nice too


You are right. The two 12"s, are hands down the winner. To my taste and IMHO, it's like this:

#1 - two 12" Brahmas
#2 - 10" Hutchinson
#3 - 15" Brahma

AGAIN, this is BEFORE touching the tune. I'm certain the 15" would sound better after tuning (as would/will the two 12"s), but the 15" has not blown me away in any area, yet. Now two 15"s (which are impossible to fit) would be pretty insane, I'm sure!
*The other factor that might be affecting the sound more significantly than we think, is rear facing on the 15" and down firing on the 12"s and the 10". If that is the case, than rear facing is NOT helping the sub at all in this Jeep.*


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

I am going to do something similar this month. I currently have a pair of 8's in a ported T-Line box, and i love them. Too me its the perfect amount and type of bass i like. But i acquired a pair of 10's of the same brand recently and i am going to flip the script and build a down firing sealed box to compare. I hope i am as happy with the 2 10's as you are with the 2 12's.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> I am going to do something similar this month. I currently have a pair of 8's in a ported T-Line box, and i love them. Too me its the perfect amount and type of bass i like. *But i acquired a pair of 10's of the same brand recently and i am going to flip the script and build a down firing sealed box to compare*. I hope i am as happy with the 2 10's as you are with the 2 12's.


I look forward to this... ^^^


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

I am going to do something similar this month. I currently have a pair of 8's in a ported T-Line box, and i love them. Too me its the perfect amount and type of bass i like. But i acquired a pair of 10's of the same brand recently and i am going to flip the script and build a down firing sealed box to compare. I hope i am as happy with the 2 10's as you are with the 2 12's.


DavidRam said:


> I look forward to this... ^^^


I'm also doing it from a piece of crap plywood to test that as well. If i like them sealed i will replace with a nice piece of BB obviously. I just had a slice of plywood hanging around from some shelves i built a couple years ago. But i did not want to burn a sheet before testing it sealed and downfiring. Its been years since i did sealed.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> I am going to do something similar this month. I currently have a pair of 8's in a ported T-Line box, and i love them. Too me its the perfect amount and type of bass i like. But i acquired a pair of 10's of the same brand recently and i am going to flip the script and build a down firing sealed box to compare. I hope i am as happy with the 2 10's as you are with the 2 12's.
> 
> I'm also doing it from a piece of crap plywood to test that as well. If i like them sealed i will replace with a nice piece of BB obviously. I just had a slice of plywood hanging around from some shelves i built a couple years ago. But i did not want to burn a sheet before testing it sealed and downfiring. Its been years since i did sealed.


That makes more sense than wasting the BB plywood like I did...


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

DavidRam said:


> That makes more sense than wasting the BB plywood like I did...


To be honest, i am kind of glad you didn't care for the 15. I have never owned one, and while i would love to try one this kind of puts it off for awhile. Might be time to start go fund me page for your BB.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> To be honest, i am kind of glad you didn't care for the 15. I have never owned one, and while i would love to try one this kind of puts it off for awhile. Might be time to start go fund me page for your BB.


Haha! Naw, I wouldn't feel right about others financing my whims... There WILL be a 15" Brahma up for sale soon!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

I always experiment on different ways to carpet, especially how to get clean joints... I got this bit and put a V grove around the box.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Talk about close fit, huh?!


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

Looks great, as usual, man!


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## RyuTsuiSen (Jan 26, 2018)

Looks phenomenal, very professional and super glad you found a good upgrade for your substage. Now just enjoy!

Until you find another excuse to build a box 

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## Anu2g (Nov 4, 2020)

When are you going to retune?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

RyuTsuiSen said:


> Looks phenomenal, very professional and super glad you found a good upgrade for your substage. Now just enjoy!
> 
> Until you find another excuse to build a box
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


Thank you!


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Anu2g said:


> When are you going to retune?


I'm going to figure out what I'm gonna do with the front stage first, and then do it all at once...


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## changster (Nov 5, 2019)

Reviving this thread...

Any more updates on how you like the Brahma 12's and 15's? Any updates after tuning? Thank you.

I just ordered 3 Brahma 12's because it seems like 3 12's only need the same space as 1 15' in a sealed enclosure (both about 3.5ish cuft net). 

What I'm really interested in knowing is how low the 12's play to. Can it hit 20hz and maybe 15hz? Any measurements done?


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

changster said:


> Reviving this thread...
> 
> Any more updates on how you like the Brahma 12's and 15's? Any updates after tuning? Thank you.
> 
> ...


I haven't used Brahma's specifically, just a very similar design, but they'll play down into the single digits quite easily.
You need a lot of power to do that though.


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## changster (Nov 5, 2019)

ckirocz28 said:


> I haven't used Brahma's specifically, just a very similar design, but they'll play down into the single digits quite easily.
> You need a lot of power to do that though.


Hmmm... if it's not the same sub then it's probably hard to compare that with the Brahma 12' revision 2.5, even if T/S is similar... 

I do agree on the power statement though!


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## GPM (Sep 19, 2007)

Hmm, with a near 30 Hz Fs it's only going to get in the teens at any appreciable SPL in a sealed alignment due to cabin gain and vented will require tuning somewhat below Fs based on its cabin gain response for best overall SQ [group delay] rather than the factory's ~ at/above Fs tuning, which in turn may ideally require a larger box for high average SPL.


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## changster (Nov 5, 2019)

GPM said:


> Hmm, with a near 30 Hz Fs it's only going to get in the teens at any appreciable SPL in a sealed alignment due to cabin gain and vented will require tuning somewhat below Fs based on its cabin gain response for best overall SQ [group delay] rather than the factory's ~ at/above Fs tuning, which in turn may ideally require a larger box for high average SPL.


Right. It'd use a sealed box for sure. I guess I won't know until I try... lol.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

changster said:


> Hmmm... if it's not the same sub then it's probably hard to compare that with the Brahma 12' revision 2.5, even if T/S is similar...
> 
> I do agree on the power statement though!


CSS Audio SDX12, close enough to compare.


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