# Subwoofer Shootout , AF gb 12 vs SI bm mk5



## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

So for some time now , id say the past year ive been enjoying my audiofrog gb12 , in my audi for sub duties , its one of the best single 12's i've had in a long time. I auditioned a number of other subs before sticking with this one , 

diyma 12
hertz 12
illusion 12 
a pair of sundown 10's
a pair of alpine typr r 10's
ect , 

and found the audio frog to have the best of both worlds , as far as sq and the ability to hammer my rear view mirror when i need it to.

the only down side is that it needs a sizable 1.2 cf to do so . not a really big box but it does take up a bit of real estate in my trunk .

i was competing in west Virginia last weekend at the steel valley event and had the chance to listen to a few other competitors cars. one that stood out to me was using a bm mk5 for sub duties , i was impressed , its effortless transition the ability to play very low and clean was great. and the fact that it can be used in box as small as .5 cf is very tempting , So because i cant leave well enough alone , i have one on the way to me now , so im going to do some testing , in a couple different size boxes , and do a old fashion shoot out with the gb 12 . i should have it in a couple days so to be continued .


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

I wish i was a little closer, i would drop off a CSS SDX12 for you to throw in as a wild card. I think a good old fashion sub shootout would be fun.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Looking forward to reading your impressions, Ian. :thumbsup:


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

I think you will like the si sub but I also think it will leave you wanting more output..by a good margin.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> I wish i was a little closer, i would drop off a CSS SDX12 for you to throw in as a wild card. I think a good old fashion sub shootout would be fun.


I'm impatiently waiting for a comparison with the SDX12 to turn up somewhere, since I have 2 of them! I think this would be a good 3-way comparison.

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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

In for your results and impressions. 


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## nstaln (Feb 11, 2009)

I have some Audiomobile MASS 12’s to compare...and I’m right up the road from you.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

I’ve got a Sundown SA-12 and Sundown SD3 10 to compare and I’m right down the road from you.


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

Looking forward to your comparison. Subscribed!


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

In for the comparison. Looks like Ian's trunk (and Ian) are gonna be busyWhile I love my lower end G12 I have it in 1.4 sealed. It rocks on just 300rms but do at times wish I could get similar bang in half the space off the same power when it comes to filling in the low end. Just need enough to blend with a little left over for the rap/hip hop moods.


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## dsquared (Aug 10, 2016)

I have both subs and honestly think it’s a toss up when it comes to SQ. 2 very nice sounding units designed for different applications. It’s really unbelievable though how the BM plays so well in that small enclosure .
Looking forward to OPs review.


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## riceandpho (Dec 30, 2009)

no JL audio 12W6?
sealed box is 1.0 i think, some user here prefer to build a bigger box.


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## geforce789 (Jul 6, 2014)

audirsfaux said:


> the only down side is that it needs a sizable 1.2 cf to do so . not a really big box but it does take up a bit of real estate in my trunk .


 Is that 1.2cf ported or sealed ? (im assuming ported ?). That's pretty impressive that you can get great output and amazing SQ on a single 12 in a moderate sized box to be honest


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

geforce789 said:


> Is that 1.2cf ported or sealed ? (im assuming ported ?). That's pretty impressive that you can get great output and amazing SQ on a single 12 in a moderate sized box to be honest


His sub is sealed. He would need close to 2 cubes ported. And I can attest that the gb12 is AMAZING. Not for everyone because of its price and box size but worth the coin and space if you can swing it.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Thanks for everyone's suggestions and input for other subs to test ect,, they are all good choices , but im leaving this evaluation limited to what i have and what i want to try , ian


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## PorkCereal (Nov 24, 2009)

I have 2 SI MK4s and other SQ people tell me i have too much sub.

You should join the NESQ meet i think they are planning on the cape and give us your thoughts on your demo


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

for what its worth, ive used the GB12 in 0.7 cubic feet before. Not ideal in simulations, but the car it was in lent itself with cabin gain and they were one of the loudest and cleanest sounding subwoofer setups ive done to date. Still reached down to 20hz with ease. I'll see if i have the response graphs on my old laptop


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

PorkCereal said:


> I have 2 SI MK4s and other SQ people tell me i have too much sub.
> 
> You should join the NESQ meet i think they are planning on the cape and give us your thoughts on your demo


im the guy thats pushing for it lol .. ill be there


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Okay, so what is the *Test Track List* looking like for this comparison?

Hmmmm?


Lorde - Royals

Clean Bandit - Dust Clears

RATM - Take the Power Back

"Percussion Imaging Test" & "Heartbeat" from HDtracks/Head-Fi "Open Your Ears" Hi-Res Demo...  Open Your Ears | HDtracks

China Moses - Put It On The Line (Acoustic Double Bass) - Nightintales CD





Leroy Vinnegar - Big Shoes (for your feet), How Insensitive, Who Has Seen The Wind (Dynamics & Stage), & The Love Nest - Walkin' The Basses CD

Diana Krall - Peel Me A Grape (Transients in Upright Bass) - Love Scenes CD

Arne Domnérus & Lars Erstrand - Drum Boogie - Live is Life CD

Steph Johnson Trio - When Sunny Gets Blue (intro) & Wonderful Things & Summertime - Nature Girl CD

Roberto Gatto - Su Lungotevere (drum solo) - Nino! CD

Tracks #04 & #11. Acoustic Percussion Ensemble Improvisation (Deep Bass), #20. Fireworks - Stockfisch Records "AYA" Are You Authentic Test SACD

Midnite - (Reggae. Almost any track from _Ras Mek Peace_)

Give Up The Funk - Parliament

Gregory Isaacs - Night Nurse (Cottonbelly Remix) - Dubmission II: The Remixes CD

Sly & Robbie - Destination Unknown (Morning Chorus Mix by Rockers HiFi) & Demolition City (Dread City Mix) - Dubmission II: The Remixes

Justin Zazzi's Fireworks & Steam Locomotive Tracks

.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Gotta add some dirty ghetto rap! 

East coast remix - asap ferg
Time for that - kevin gates

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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

He is in luck with a couple of those - I have the Steph Johnson and Midnite stuff 


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

bertholomey said:


> He is in luck with a couple of those - I have the Steph Johnson and Midnite stuff




Nice!

I'd be really interested to hear what tracks Andy Wehmeyer and Nick Lemons suggest for subwoofer testing?

Jason, I'm sure you probably know a few of Nick's from your GTG's, and you've had some great tracks for this as well on your NCSQ demos.

For bass DEFINITION, Tonality, and Accuracy, I like to use a good, low, _walking_ acoustic bass line. Actually, I think it was Andy who suggested the Leroy Vinnegar albums to me.

But as far as synthesized bass, I've always liked a few of the tracks from the *Digital Bassics Compilation* as well. Had that since it was first released...











An old Skool R&B track that has a great Kick Drum & Bass Line is "Just The Two Of Us" by Grover Washington Jr. 

I still like Dr. Dre & Snoop Dog's "_Ain't Nothing's But a G' Thang_" (which Matt Hall reminded me of in the recent SQology Podcast). 

I could list a bunch of Heavy Metal, DnB, and Hip-Hop/Rap, but as much as I like the _impact_ and bass-heavy sh!t, it has to be backed up by bass articulation, definition, and realism with acoustic instruments to really satisfy me and to discern the differences between a good and great subwoofer.

Of course, A LOT of that comes down to tuning, but you can't polish a turd, so...?

What about the canons in _Tchaikovsky's 1812 Festival Overture; Capriccio Italien_?  That's a mechanical excursion limits/voicecoil burner, along with some of the Fireworks tracks! 

But there are at least a handful of other orchestral tracks that will blow you away if you have a dynamic subwoofer stage.


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## folgrz (Oct 29, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> Gotta add some dirty ghetto rap!
> 
> East coast remix - asap ferg
> Time for that - kevin gates
> ...


Not super dirty ghetto rap but it's a good ass tune!

https://youtu.be/ZJM4AQSbZDk


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

bbfoto said:


> Nice!
> 
> I'd be really interested to hear what tracks Andy Wehmeyer and Nick Lemons suggest for subwoofer testing?
> 
> ...


You are right Billy....I do have a good demo disc from Nick, and it has a very nice array of rock, metal, rap, soundtrack, R&B, and electronica. 

He and his Dad are partial to a little Bella Sonus for really demonstrating those low tones.






And you are right......something like this will provide a bit of both - impact and articulation......


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

thanks guys ill add some of those tracks to my list , also the sub is due to arrive today !


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## Mad Scientist (Feb 12, 2017)

Wonderful test track material: https://soundcloud.com/imarasounds/bright-hearts


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

audirsfaux said:


> thanks guys ill add some of those tracks to my list , also the sub is due to arrive today !


I get the feeling there will be a good bit of electronic on your test track list!! Looking forward to how the comparison goes, especially after we had both been talking about our similar plans with the BM MKV.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Looking forward to your impressions.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Which car did you hear that had the SI which impressed you Ian?


I haven't heard the new version of the SI sub, but the mk4's were very very nice. I also love the GB12. It strikes the perfect balance between SQ and output. I liked mine in 1.25-1.5cubic feet and they extended really nice and low and played very clean.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

captainobvious said:


> Which car did you hear that had the SI which impressed you Ian?
> 
> 
> I haven't heard the new version of the SI sub, but the mk4's were very very nice. I also love the GB12. It strikes the perfect balance between SQ and output. I liked mine in 1.25-1.5cubic feet and they extended really nice and low and played very clean.


steve , the car i heard it in was a blue subaru at svr . and im running my gb in 1.2 cf sealed box now . its a great sounding sub and for a single 12 its output is great as well as sq , my thoughts are that if i can get 2 bm mk5 in the same amount of air space ? twice the surface area and they may be a little more efficient , but this post is more of a head to head with sq and the ability to dig deep and give me the output i desire .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

naiku said:


> I get the feeling there will be a good bit of electronic on your test track list!! Looking forward to how the comparison goes, especially after we had both been talking about our similar plans with the BM MKV.


yep there will be prob some deadmau5 , joy division , and all the standard electronica .


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

captainobvious said:


> Which car did you hear that had the SI which impressed you Ian?
> 
> 
> I haven't heard the new version of the SI sub, but the mk4's were very very nice. I also love the GB12. It strikes the perfect balance between SQ and output. I liked mine in 1.25-1.5cubic feet and they extended really nice and low and played very clean.




Hey Steve - that was the BM mkV you heard in my car at SVR. 


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

audirsfaux said:


> yep there will be prob some deadmau5 , joy division , and all the standard electronica .


Nice. Have you listened to "Where's the drop?" took me a couple listens through to really enjoy it.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

well the sub arrived , 2 day shipping ! pretty nice no complaints for a 5 dollar shipping charge . the woofer was well packed and came in a bespoke box with the SI logo printed on it , dosen't seem like a big deal but all these details cost money , the woofer looks great and has a carbon fiber cone , very cool . im a sucker for carbon , if you have seen my car you would know this , lol .. any way on to the pics ,








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so i loaded it into a 1 cf box that i had from another woofer, i had laying around
going to install it this am and let the testing begin . also i want to mention that this woofer is very light , i assume due to using the neo magnet structure , its a plus for me because i want to keep weight down esp if i end up using 2 , because race car ! lol


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## Garcbomber (May 26, 2017)

Do you have the G12 Audiofrog or the GB12? 

So you expect a shallow enclosure pancake to even be in the same league as AF's audiofile level compact? Double the power, price, and the space doesn't make for apples to apples. SI makes a great shallow and might be up near the TW3 in peak to peak capabilities, but come on now.

How much were you paid??


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Garcbomber said:


> Do you have the G12 Audiofrog or the GB12?
> 
> So you expect a shallow enclosure pancake to even be in the same league as AF's audiofile level compact? Double the power, price, and the space doesn't make for apples to apples. SI makes a great shallow and might be up near the TW3 in peak to peak capabilities, but come on now.
> 
> How much were you paid??


eh , im not sure you understand what im doing here , the comparison is not to see if the bm is a "better" sub than my gb12 , its to see if i can get more of what i want to happen with this sub , 

1. not loose any sq 
2. get more cone area = more efficient response 
3. take up less space and weight in my trunk 

ian.


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## Garcbomber (May 26, 2017)

Understood, title and thread topic "shootout" is severely misleading. 

Like most consumers with a single pancake in a suffocating enclosure, they're always complaining about wanting more output but let us know your results.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Garcbomber said:


> Understood, title and thread topic "shootout" is severely misleading.
> 
> Like most consumers with a single pancake in a suffocating enclosure, they're always complaining about wanting more output but let us know your results.


im testing it in an .8 cf box . hardly suffocating


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

audirsfaux said:


> im testing it in an .8 cf box . hardly suffocating


I always thought the BM SI wanted a .5 cuft, but i'm sure you have been thru all that with SI. I am interested because i have a very shallow spare tire well in my Crosstrek. 2 of these in a 1.0cuft box would fit.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> I always thought the BM SI wanted a .5 cuft, but i'm sure you have been thru all that with SI. I am interested because i have a very shallow spare tire well in my Crosstrek. 2 of these in a 1.0cuft box would fit.


yep they will work in a box as small as .5 for sure thats my next round of testing


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

He's also doing it for himself, so maybe save the douchey comments for after if it seems to warrant it?:dunce2:




Garcbomber said:


> Do you have the G12 Audiofrog or the GB12?
> 
> So you expect a shallow enclosure pancake to even be in the same league as AF's audiofile level compact? Double the power, price, and the space doesn't make for apples to apples. SI makes a great shallow and might be up near the TW3 in peak to peak capabilities, but come on now.
> 
> How much were you paid??


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

foreman said:


> He's also doing it for himself, so maybe save the douchey comments for after if it seems to warrant it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed, that’s some level-100 defensiveness. Not sure what the story is on that. Garcbomber, you associated with SI?

And just because a subwoofer is shallow doesn’t necessairly mean it cannot compete on SQ with larger format subs. An example of this is the Phase Linear Aliante, which is regarded as one of the greats as far as old school SQ goes.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

You have to understand that anytime there is subwoofer talk, especially if you are talking about "shallow mount" subwoofers, Garcbomber can not resist jumping in to talk about JL. Nothing else will stack up. Ever.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Garcbomber said:


> Understood, title and thread topic "shootout" is severely misleading.
> 
> Like most consumers with a single pancake in a suffocating enclosure, they're always complaining about wanting more output but let us know your results.


You've obviously never personally heard the SI BM. They sound great and have great USABLE bandwidth in tiny enclosures. 

Ian, do you think you can sandbag your amp to only put out around 300rms to see how it does? That's what I have available at 2 ohms so that's why I'm wondering. Maybe series the coils to help cut power on the ST2000 Zapco? I really am thinking about one to get back some cargo area.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

miniSQ said:


> I always thought the BM SI wanted a .5 cuft, but i'm sure you have been thru all that with SI. I am interested because i have a very shallow spare tire well in my Crosstrek. 2 of these in a 1.0cuft box would fit.


The 0.5 ft^3 spec is the smallest enclosure volume that we list. We recommend a 0.65 ft^3 volume enclosure for an optimum mixture of power handling and frequency response. 

We are happy to see the Ian using a larger enclosure to start with and see his impressions while using an enclosure larger than what we recommend for the driver. Larger enclosure will yield better bottom end but with sacrificed power handling but we're still looking forward to Ian's impressions in the larger enclosure. I don't care who you are or how long you've been in the business it's still odd to say a 0.8 ft^3 box is a "larger" box, haha.


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## dsw1204 (Mar 23, 2015)

I look forward to hearing what the OP has to say about the BM MK5. This should be interesting.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

GreatLaBroski said:


> Agreed, that’s some level-100 defensiveness. Not sure what the story is on that. Garcbomber, you associated with SI?


Absolutely not associated with us at all. Did you assume he was associated with us because of his shallow subwoofer comment only? 



GreatLaBroski said:


> And just because a subwoofer is shallow doesn’t necessairly mean it cannot compete on SQ with larger format subs.


Exactly.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Electrodynamic said:


> Absolutely not associated with us at all. Did you assume he was associated with us because of his shallow subwoofer comment only?


It was just because he/she seemed so triggered by this comparison that I was trying to figure out why it mattered so much. I didn't think that he worked for SI but rather was perhaps a distributor, reseller, or someone with a vested interest. I've gathered that isn't the case. :laugh:

To stay on topic, I'm very much looking forward to this comparison. Jason's endorsement is a big indicator that the bm MkV is a real contender, I really respect his opinion.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

thanks for all the comments and support on keeping this thread on track for me guys .. 

.65 cf testing today . also testing at 8 ohm to keep the power in check ,


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

GreatLaBroski said:


> It was just because he/she seemed so triggered by this comparison that I was trying to figure out why it mattered so much. I didn't think that he worked for SI but rather was perhaps a distributor, reseller, or someone with a vested interest. I've gathered that isn't the case. :laugh:
> 
> To stay on topic, I'm very much looking forward to this comparison. Jason's endorsement is a big indicator that the bm MkV is a real contender, I really respect his opinion.


Thanks GLB! To be fair....I love the BM in MY car - with it mounted in the front passenger floorboard - I have a unique experience - one that is not easily transferable to many other vehicles. I enjoy the sound quality I perceive from this driver, and I have all of the impact and output I desire (and I may desire much less than others). 

But....with that being said - I'm eagerly awaiting Ian's results - good or bad for the BM - because the BRZ might be selling soon, and I'm not sure if I'll install a BM in the floorboard again - I may need to utilize a trunk of a largish sedan. So, I'm curious as to what options I'll have with the same parameters that Ian is looking at - sound quality, output (maybe not at the same level as Ian), space, and weight.


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## Garcbomber (May 26, 2017)

Call off the dogs, we're discussing low frequency generators here. I didn't disrespect your girl fellas. 

Subs are kind of subjective like women; say your wife cooks, cleans, handles the kids well, decent face, but she's 5 or 6 in terms of what else is out there in all of those categories including handling the D. That's even with makeup, tan, and a decent workout and diet streak wearing a sundress.(AKA MKV) 

What looks or sounds good to some, may not to others.

One-way x-max ratings are all marketing, show me a peak to peak capability sniffing near the TW3's 54mm and I'll give another shallow some respect.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Garcbomber said:


> Do you have the G12 Audiofrog or the GB12?
> 
> So you expect a shallow enclosure pancake to even be in the same league as AF's audiofile level compact? Double the power, price, and the space doesn't make for apples to apples. SI makes a great shallow and might be up near the TW3 in peak to peak capabilities, but come on now.
> 
> How much were you paid??





Don't let the specs on paper blind you. The SI BM's have always been very capable SQ subs, regardless of their shallow mounting depth. And yes, I have owned and used both in high level builds- as well as the TW5 and TW3 series JL subs. I've only ever heard the TW3 sound good in one car and it was surprising. I could never get them to extend deep and sound musical enough . Both the SI and the AF GB are excellent SQ subs.


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

Garcbomber said:


> Call off the dogs, we're discussing low frequency generators here. I didn't disrespect your girl fellas.
> 
> Subs are kind of subjective like women; say your wife cooks, cleans, handles the kids well, decent face, but she's 5 or 6 in terms of what else is out there in all of those categories including handling the D. That's even with makeup, tan, and a decent workout and diet streak wearing a sundress.(AKA MKV)
> 
> ...


I've ran TW3's (both 10 & 12) in my own vehicle, as well as installed several for others. While it's decent sub and I'm generally a JL fan, the TW3 simply lacks output in the bottom octave (20-40Hz), as compared to the SI BM or SD-3. On the positive side, the TW3 tends to keep its composure better than the SD-3 when driven hard, as they tend to let you know when they find their limit (hard bottom).


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## Garcbomber (May 26, 2017)

metanium said:


> I've ran TW3's (both 10 & 12) in my own vehicle, as well as installed several for others. While it's decent sub and I'm generally a JL fan, the TW3 simply lacks output in the bottom octave (20-40Hz), as compared to the SI BM or SD-3. On the positive side, the TW3 tends to keep its composure better than the SD-3 when driven hard, as they tend to let you know when they find their limit (hard bottom).


100 percent agree and kind of my point, you won't ever have a pancake be as flexible as a full size or even compact driver. They have their strengths biased by the designer, which is why a PR or vented application tuned low gives a TW3 the full range that a traditional sub would have. Any other lower excursion shallow will be handicapped by extreme mechanical noise and destroy itself in such environment to attain comparable low end, or they can't pound you in the chest with kicks on the upper end like the TW3 was designed for.

People have different music needs as well, there are just too many variables when comparing woofers. To be fair everyone is absolutely correct that I have not heard a MKV, but I've seen one move.

Moving on to feedback.


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## Smash (Oct 4, 2011)

Can't wait to hear the feedback on this. I'm super interested as well. I have a JL Audio 10TW3‑D4 that I was planning on installing. But that MKV is sexy. I typically lean towards a puncher 10 than 12. Wondering if the flat surface area of the 12 puts it somewhere between a typical 10 and 12.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Garcbomber said:


> 100 percent agree and kind of my point, you won't ever have a pancake be as flexible as a full size or even compact driver. They have their strengths biased by the designer, which is why a PR or vented application tuned low gives a TW3 the full range that a traditional sub would have. Any other lower excursion shallow will be handicapped by extreme mechanical noise and destroy itself in such environment to attain comparable low end, or they can't pound you in the chest with kicks on the upper end like the TW3 was designed for.
> 
> People have different music needs as well, there are just too many variables when comparing woofers. To be fair everyone is absolutely correct that I have not heard a MKV, but I've seen one move.
> 
> Moving on to feedback.


Just seems your bias is showing with your comments saying a compact driver can’t do what a full-size driver can do. Then you say all other shallow designs will have mechanical noise except the TW3. I’m glad you are happy with your TW3 but really don’t feel you are adding anything useful to the discussion since you don’t have experience with the BM mkV.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

ok , so i want preface this review with a apology about the title , the word shootout was a bit misleading , Because im not really going head to head with the 2 subs , my current or lets say "reference sub " and the Bm mk5 . Its more of a review of the SI in my car . a real world test lets say , So a couple weeks ago i was at the SVR regional event , and i listened to a car that had this sub , and i liked what i heard , so lead me in the pursuit of having the bass response that i heard and loved in jasons brz , There is a few things that make his install special that i prob wont or cant emulate in my current car . like having the sub basically in the glove box , or pass foot well . Also the sub is light ,small and needs a small box to do its job , perfect , So i get one from si to start testing in my car to see if this woofer is a solution in my car as it was in jasons , 

So the following review is my opinion of it and how it works in my install . 

o·pin·ion
əˈpinyən/Submit
noun
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge

so we all know what that word means and no one can turn this review into a **** show of ,, whatever people like to argue about on here . 

Day 1. woofer tested in 1.0 cf sealed box . 

The sq and overall dynamics of this sub are great , very clean ,controlled and punchy without any over ring or muddiness . 

most of the test tracks this day were , rock , some pop , and jazz , stand up bass tracks . i kept it at a "normal" volume as it was still breaking in . 

it produced a very snappy kick drum , and very well defined acoustic and electric bass . i would say as good or better than my reference sub. 


Day 2 , i knocked the box volume down to .75 cf . and installed it firing through the ski hole in the audi , just to make sure i could hear any break up or if i was pushing it too far ect . 

same tracks were used , pretty much same results , but a little cleaner than the day before , bass notes seemed a little more singular and the woofer seemed more controlled or composed . 

Day 3, .5 cf box . same tracks and volume , now it seemed to start degrading low end extension but not by much , a slight drop down from 30hz output . 

So i decide for my needs well use the .75 box as the reference for what i would like best . and its pretty cool because thats half the space as my current woofer . 

So now , i set the woofer up adjust t/a and do a little eq work on the helix , it did not need much to get it too blend and play nice with the rest of my system , So today i play all the standard music i would listen too on my daily commute and sale calls , enjoying the quality and presence of this sub and kinda shocked from its over all output , it will play loud and low . but i listen to so many different types of music , and i like loud sometimes . like LOUD .

so sitting in traffic i change up the music to a mix on my sd card . lots of different artists , from Korn to tool to edm artists slayer , ect .. 

all at moderate volumes , it sounds fantastic , double bass from a few metal artists was clean and well defined , edm songs played hard with no motor noise or added slap back. pretty happy at this point . 

if i was using this sub for strictly competing in sq , my decision would have been made .

clean, clear, life like bass reproduction with no noise or added nonsense . 

But like i said before , i like to listen to music sometimes at a unhealthy level of volume . so with that being said , we took it up a notch with volume and sub level because i like bass and i want the kick drum to punch me in the face sometimes . on most tracks it performed very well , kept its composure and still sounded great . so on to some edm with bass tracks that will punish most subs regardless of its type , reg motor or otherwise , with this i found its limit . re adjusting the sub level i was able to keep it in check and still have a decent amount of volume , but not where i would want to be as a permanent fixture in my car . so then i tried moving it around a firing it backwards in the trunk like my gb has been , the extension was better and the cabin gain took the volume and impact up a notch . but sounded a little muddy and not as composed as it once was . to be expected . 

then i moved it to the pass floor , re adjusted gains and t/a and bam , thats it sounds great , plenty of output and more impact up front where i wanted it
however not really a solution for this build . 

my conclusion is this .

sq wise does it sound as good as the reference sub , yes 
does it do it in like half the space and weight , yes 
will it just swap out and replace my sub and keep me happy no matter what 
, NO 

but in a multiple sub set up like 2 or 3 , im sure it will surpass what i have now and do it in the same or less space and weight . and prob sound better as well . and this evaluation is for my car and what im willing to give up for space and money to make this happen . 

so in conclusion , i have heard many small format pancake subs from different company's , and i think the bm mk5 is hands down the best sounding sub of the group i have heard . will it replace a traditional style high end sub in a bigger box with more power handling and check all the boxes , no but thats not what it was made for . and for the price of 350.00
its an awesome value as well . 

my equipment list is in my sig if your wondering what i used for amps and other components ect . thanks , ian.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

^^^^ That is why I will be using two of the BMmkV in my next build.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Well done! Good and balanced review in my opinion (coming from someone who has tackled a couple of these). I’m glad you had the opportunity to try the sub in your car, under the conditions you would listen. Car audio is full but of compromise 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

audirsfaux said:


> ok , so i want preface this review with a apology about the title , the word shootout was a bit misleading , Because im not really going head to head with the 2 subs , my current or lets say "reference sub " and the Bm mk5 . Its more of a review of the SI in my car . a real world test lets say , So a couple weeks ago i was at the SVR regional event , and i listened to a car that had this sub , and i liked what i heard , so lead me in the pursuit of having the bass response that i heard and loved in jasons brz , There is a few things that make his install special that i prob wont or cant emulate in my current car . like having the sub basically in the glove box , or pass foot well . Also the sub is light ,small and needs a small box to do its job , perfect , So i get one from si to start testing in my car to see if this woofer is a solution in my car as it was in jasons ,
> 
> So the following review is my opinion of it and how it works in my install .
> 
> ...


Awesome. Thanks for the comprehensive review.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Nice review.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Thanks for the review Ian. I look forward to giving the BM a try in my next build since space will likely be TIGHT if I go with a midsize truck as planned. And it has been said by Mr. SI himself that the BM is a sub for high fidelity NOT pounding the pavement so your review is right inline with what the BM is designed to do and does quite well for a pancake. I have heard a pair of the previous generation BM get crazy loud in an extended cab truck AND hit 7hz. I called BS on his claims until I experienced it for myself!


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

metanium said:


> I've ran TW3's (both 10 & 12) in my own vehicle, as well as installed several for others. While it's decent sub and I'm generally a JL fan, the TW3 simply lacks output in the bottom octave (20-40Hz), as compared to the SI BM or SD-3. On the positive side, the TW3 tends to keep its composure better than the SD-3 when driven hard, as they tend to let you know when they find their limit (hard bottom).


^ On the note of bottoming we designed the mkV to soft bottom instead of hard bottom. The spider locks up before the coil has any chance to hit the back of the bumped backplate. Much safer this way. Previous versions could hard bottom but a quick re-vamp of the spider platform (size, shape, etc, have all been changed) prohibits the mkV from actually hard bottoming.


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

I've got 2 MKV's in my 370z, replacing a single MKiv. Setup strictly for sq.
I recently put my MKiv under the rear seat of my 2012 Titan Crew cab. the box is .55cf, 
and Im running it at 2 ohms on a JBL MSA5001. I was looking for a little more bass heavy sounds in the truck than in the Z, and hoped I could get it with this shallow mount, "finesse" subwoofer.
Well, It definitely delivers in this configuration. More output than I need, and keeps its composure while delivering it. 
I'm not trying to flex any windows or anything, but it can definitely shake things up.
Loving all of my SI gear... Especially the subs.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Ok folks , going for round 2 now , using 2 drivers . im really excited to see how this plays out . ian


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## Torpedo (Aug 16, 2018)

This is getting exciting. I pre-ordered a pair of the MK V's back in December and chomped at the bit until they arrived. Unfortunately have had no time to install but for some reason feeling a bit more motivated due to this thread. I've been using a pair of Boston Pro 12.5's for the last 20 years and really don't know what to expect with a different configuration. My hopes are that the MK V's are just as awesome for my needs.

Looking forward to more review.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

sorry for the delay on the dual 12 review , im away for buisness for a bit ,,


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

audirsfaux said:


> sorry for the delay on the dual 12 review , im away for buisness for a bit ,,


Wait a minute...You've got all of us armchair sound system engineers holding our breath, waiting for any scrap of information and opinion on both of these awesome subs, and then you decide to go off and work for a living?? 

That is not cool!!! 

LOL/JK


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

seafish said:


> Wait a minute...You've got all of us armchair sound system engineers holding our breath, waiting for any scrap of information and opinion on both of these awesome subs, and then you decide to go off and work for a living??
> 
> That is not cool!!!
> 
> LOL/JK


haha sorry ! i would rather be working on my car !


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## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

Electrodynamic said:


> ^ On the note of bottoming we designed the mkV to soft bottom instead of hard bottom. The spider locks up before the coil has any chance to hit the back of the bumped backplate. Much safer this way. Previous versions could hard bottom but a quick re-vamp of the spider platform (size, shape, etc, have all been changed) prohibits the mkV from actually hard bottoming.


Talked with you about this at the Sundown show. I may have to get with you for a pair of these for a 4th order in my '73 Camaro that's loaded with carbon fiber. The weight savings, SQ, and output with the 4th sounds like the perfect setup. CF pistons would keep the theme going.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

JI808 said:


> Talked with you about this at the Sundown show. I may have to get with you for a pair of these for a 4th order in my '73 Camaro that's loaded with carbon fiber. The weight savings, SQ, and output with the 4th sounds like the perfect setup. CF pistons would keep the theme going.


what the 4th order box all about ? do you have a tech sheet ?


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

audirsfaux said:


> what the 4th order box all about ? do you have a tech sheet ?


Sounds like he wants to use a 4th order bandpass box with SI BM's. Not sure I would but hey whatever tickles his pickle...


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Sounds like he wants to use a 4th order bandpass box with SI BM's. Not sure I would but hey whatever tickles his pickle...


Chris , yeah i get what he is trying to do just wondering if he did the math in a program or how he got the idea , that this would be a good idea ,,lol


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

JI808 said:


> Talked with you about this at the Sundown show. I may have to get with you for a pair of these for a 4th order in my '73 Camaro that's loaded with carbon fiber. The weight savings, SQ, and output with the 4th sounds like the perfect setup. CF pistons would keep the theme going.


Sure, why not? In a 4'th order the bandwidth would still be respectable on paper and flat-out impressive in person.


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

How large is this theoretical 4th order box?


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> How large is this theoretical 4th order box?


specs and plans , or i dont believe it ,, lol


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

ok , so i had time to make my box and pretty much finish my trunk install yesterday with an installer buddy of mine , 








[/IMG]








[/IMG]

just installed the subs late last night , so ill give my impressions after i tune and listen for a few days . ian


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

audirsfaux said:


> just installed the subs late last night , so ill give my impressions after i tune and listen for a few days . ian


Tease. 

Looking nice!


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

audirsfaux said:


> ok , so i had time to make my box and pretty much finish my trunk install yesterday with an installer buddy of mine ,
> just installed the subs late last night , so ill give my impressions after i tune and listen for a few days . ian


Looks great. What airspace did you end up going with?


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

dgage said:


> Looks great. What airspace did you end up going with?


i made them .75 a side so the final will be .7


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## TXBoudy (Aug 12, 2018)

Great review, thanks for sharing.


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

audirsfaux said:


> ok , so i had time to make my box and pretty much finish my trunk install yesterday with an installer buddy of mine ,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you happen to have the dimensions? What’s the deepest depth of your box?and how much space did you leave behind the sub at its thinnest point?

Are you experimenting with forward firing orientation as well?


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

According to Nick of SI, you can leave just 1/4” behind the BM mkV driver for air movement.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

audirsfaux said:


> ok , so i had time to make my box and pretty much finish my trunk install yesterday with an installer buddy of mine ,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, that looks great!


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Do you happen to have the dimensions? What’s the deepest depth of your box?and how much space did you leave behind the sub at its thinnest point?
> 
> Are you experimenting with forward firing orientation as well?


i can go measure it for you , 

and i did try it forward facing before and liked the rear facing results better


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

That’s a nice box! Still deciding where to mount my 2 in a sedan but I may just follow suite with your strategy.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

audirsfaux said:


> i can go measure it for you ,
> 
> and i did try it forward facing before and liked the rear facing results better


It is hard to argue against actual testing. 

Do you know the how-n-why that makes it better facing backwards?


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Holmz said:


> It is hard to argue against actual testing.
> 
> Do you know the how-n-why that makes it better facing backwards?


In general, aiming subs towards the rear of the car (in fact moving it as close as possible while facing the rear of the car) allows the reflected sound wave to reinforce the direct sound waves emanating from the subs while remaining closer in phase. In short, reflected and direct sound better reinforce each other that way.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

That being said, down firing or other "boundary loading" can also work well.

Here is a great CAF video on using RTA to help determine best position for subs buy testing before final install--

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPIu-OTMwRk


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

so back on track , after installing my new amps for mids and tweets , and a total re-tune , the system sounds pretty great , the subs blend and play very nice with my , illuision 8 inch mid bass , and they have a warm tight super clean sound to them . they blend so well they almost disappear in the car , bass is very forward and tight . and spl at MY max volume is around 128 db . i know its not an insane amount of sub bass , but in a sq car its fine . ill play around some more with different tracks and some more punishing edm in the next couple days and report back ,,, ian


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

So... 

I have to ask...

Now that you have a little more listening experience to the SI BM’s are you missing the AF GB12? Output wise do the 2 BM’s lack/match/surpass the 1 GB12?


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## bmmer701 (Jun 16, 2010)

You are running 2 si in how many amps each and ohms? Thanks


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

I've got 2 on 750 watts at 2 ohms


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## bmmer701 (Jun 16, 2010)

RRizz said:


> I've got 2 on 750 watts at 2 ohms




750 watts each?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

No, shared


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## bmmer701 (Jun 16, 2010)

RRizz said:


> No, shared




Ok thanks i have dual mono amp that can be use @ 2ohm for 486w each is that ok for 2 si bm mk5?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

I dont see why not. I ran a single Mk4 for a few years at 500 with no issues


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> So...
> 
> I have to ask...
> 
> Now that you have a little more listening experience to the SI BM’s are you missing the AF GB12? Output wise do the 2 BM’s lack/match/surpass the 1 GB12?


well , i would say that the bm pair matches the gb 12 with clean undistorted output , but spl the 1 gb will play louder .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

bmmer701 said:


> You are running 2 si in how many amps each and ohms? Thanks


im running a single zapco st-2000 on them at 2 ohms so 1400 watts


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## EmptyKim (Jun 17, 2010)

audirsfaux said:


> im running a single zapco st-2000 on them at 2 ohms so 1400 watts


Are you going to test two GB12s now?


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

EmptyKim said:


> Are you going to test two GB12s now?


i have tested 2 gb 12's , they sound great , but that does not really solve my problem or keep my goal in mind , being less space , weight and lower and upper extension to blend with my front stage and my goal of on demand spl if needed , and cost as well , so the next test will be a little different , but i believe will have great results and check all the boxes , stay tuned .


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Ian, where are the subs & 8's crossed over in your testing?


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Truthunter said:


> Ian, where are the subs & 8's crossed over in your testing?


ryan , they were crossed at , 72 on the mids and 58 on the subs


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

audirsfaux said:


> so the next test will be a little different , but i believe will have great results and check all the boxes , stay tuned .


Thanks for the work and effort. I’m tuned! :snacks:


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

the next test will be a single custom made driver , same price range or cheaper than the pair of bm mk5 , it will take up a little more space but save weight over the pair of gb12's


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Ok so after some deep thought and , talking to Nick from SI , we came up with a solution to the "i need more output " question , i always wanted to try a single 15 inch woofer , but i was put off because most need a ton of space to perform well and they are pretty big and very heavy . So nick designed this amazing 15 for me , and may be a great solution to bridge the gap between his offerings of the bm mk5 , then to his insane large frame woofers ,

this 15 inch sub , needs no more air space than the gb 12 pair and weighs less than the pair of gb's together , so check out this bad ass ! 








[/IMG]








[/IMG]


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Able to share the mounting depth and how much power to feed its appetite?


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Able to share the mounting depth and how much power to feed its appetite?


mounting depth is just over 9.25 , i would say anywhere from 600 to 1800 watts it would be happy .


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

audirsfaux said:


> Ok so after some deep thought and , talking to Nick from SI , we came up with a solution to the "i need more output " question , i always wanted to try a single 15 inch woofer , but i was put off because most need a ton of space to perform well and they are pretty big and very heavy . So nick designed this amazing 15 for me , and may be a great solution to bridge the gap between his offerings of the bm mk5 , then to his insane large frame woofers ,
> 
> this 15 inch sub , needs no more air space than the gb 12 pair and weighs less than the pair of gb's together , so check out this bad ass !


This looks beastly. Since you mention air space, I gather that you're planning on another sealed box? Can this run infinite baffle?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

nyquistrate said:


> This looks beastly. Since you mention air space, I gather that you're planning on another sealed box? Can this run infinite baffle?


Yes you can use in infinite baffle.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

You will love that driver. Nick made me one about 3 months ago and it’s one of the best subs I have ever owned. I put mine in a sealed box and it hits hard and double taps in Metallica, Iron Maiden etc are concise and each tap is distinguishable. Great sub and doesn’t need a ton of power. Let us know what you think. 
I had the same conversation with him about output and now my bass knob stays much lower than in the past.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Iamsecond said:


> You will love that driver. Nick made me one about 3 months ago and it’s one of the best subs I have ever owned. I put mine in a sealed box and it hits hard and double taps in Metallica, Iron Maiden etc are concise and each tap is distinguishable. Great sub and doesn’t need a ton of power. Let us know what you think.
> I had the same conversation with him about output and now my bass knob stays much lower than in the past.



sounds great i just finished the new box today , what air space do you run yours in ?


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

I just put it in a qbomb 2ft^3 sealed box. Didn’t have time or desire to build a box. 
I just have to tone down the bass guitar and it will be perfect. I changed everything out again and have not had a chance to touch any eq yet.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Iamsecond said:


> I just put it in a qbomb 2ft^3 sealed box. Didn’t have time or desire to build a box.
> I just have to tone down the bass guitar and it will be perfect. I changed everything out again and have not had a chance to touch any eq yet.


ok i built a 2.6 cf box for it so it should rock pretty good


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## dsquared (Aug 10, 2016)

Ian...You going to have this ready for Nicks event ? I want to hear it


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

dsquared said:


> Ian...You going to have this ready for Nicks event ? I want to hear it


should up and running tonight ! so yeah i hope so lol


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

so as i keep chasing the dragon on this topic , the 15 dd not work out space wise for my install , soooooooo , were going with a 12 inch version stay tuned for that !


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## EmptyKim (Jun 17, 2010)

audirsfaux said:


> so as i keep chasing the dragon on this topic , the 15 dd not work out space wise for my install , soooooooo , were going with a 12 inch version stay tuned for that !


What are you doing with the 15? For sale?


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

EmptyKim said:


> What are you doing with the 15? For sale?


yes it is for sale you can email nick about purchasing the drivers in this thread .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

so here is the 12 , it is as always a work of art , nick really knows how make an impressive driver , 








[/IMG]







[/IMG]







[/IMG]


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Where is the review / thoughts on the 2 x BM MKV and the SI 15" Nick made for you? Curious to know what it was about those that did not fit with what you are looking for.


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## dhmcfadin (Sep 28, 2017)

Edit


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

naiku said:


> Where is the review / thoughts on the 2 x BM MKV and the SI 15" Nick made for you? Curious to know what it was about those that did not fit with what you are looking for.


Good point ian , well my thoughts on the bm pair , were very good , they sound amazing prob best sq sub i have ever heard in my car for sure , the are so fast and really bring the low end to life , play super low in a tiny enclosure and look great , however they are still limited in there output , if i was just competing in my car they would have never left . perfect sq sub . if i had a hatchback or a tundra / pick up or a open air vehicle , perfect choice . the audi trunk is just to sealed , in the set up im running to check all the boxes for me. 

the 15 , this sub was a monster ! incredible output , sounded great even with a rather small box . 2.6 cf , but damn its like 50 lbs and i could not build a box for it in my car that would give me access to my spare tire if needed or batt compartment , again its my installs limitations not the product . that made me change my mind .


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

So now it’s the impression of the double BM mkV vs the single beefier RM12 (not sure on name?).

Kind of the the cone area vs more excursion debate. Should be interesting.

Do you have a mounting depth for the bigger SI 12”?


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

audirsfaux said:


> Good point ian , well my thoughts on the bm pair , were very good , they sound amazing prob best sq sub i have ever heard in my car for sure , the are so fast and really bring the low end to life , play super low in a tiny enclosure and look great , however they are still limited in there output , if i was just competing in my car they would have never left . perfect sq sub . if i had a hatchback or a tundra / pick up or a open air vehicle , perfect choice . the audi trunk is just to sealed , in the set up im running to check all the boxes for me.
> 
> the 15 , this sub was a monster ! incredible output , sounded great even with a rather small box . 2.6 cf , but damn its like 50 lbs and i could not build a box for it in my car that would give me access to my spare tire if needed or batt compartment , again its my installs limitations not the product . that made me change my mind .


Thanks, definitely all makes perfect sense. Especially building a box that prevents access to spare tire, that was always something I am very aware of when putting a subwoofer or figuring out where to mount amps. Always want to be able to access the spare tire without having to dismantle a ton of things.

Curious how a pair of BM MKV would fare in my wagon, since the trunk is completely open (save for the roll up cargo cover). 

Looking forward to what you think of the 12" sub next. Hopefully you at some point find the result you need/want.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> So now it’s the impression of the double BM mkV vs the single beefier RM12 (not sure on name?).
> 
> Kind of the the cone area vs more excursion debate. Should be interesting.
> 
> Do you have a mounting depth for the bigger SI 12”?


yep its 7 inches deep .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

naiku said:


> Thanks, definitely all makes perfect sense. Especially building a box that prevents access to spare tire, that was always something I am very aware of when putting a subwoofer or figuring out where to mount amps. Always want to be able to access the spare tire without having to dismantle a ton of things.
> 
> Curious how a pair of BM MKV would fare in my wagon, since the trunk is completely open (save for the roll up cargo cover).
> 
> Looking forward to what you think of the 12" sub next. Hopefully you at some point find the result you need/want.


make the box so its angled at the glass , and your golden !


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

audirsfaux said:


> Good point ian , well my thoughts on the bm pair , were very good , they sound amazing prob best sq sub i have ever heard in my car for sure , the are so fast and really bring the low end to life , play super low in a tiny enclosure and look great , however they are still limited in there output , if i was just competing in my car they would have never left . perfect sq sub . if i had a hatchback or a tundra / pick up or a open air vehicle , perfect choice . the audi trunk is just to sealed , in the set up im running to check all the boxes for me.




I have a '14 s4 with the b&o system and am looking at a bm for the trunk. Do you still have the factory sub in the rear deck? I've read good reports from other s4 owners that removing it to act as a port to the cabin works very well to increase output.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Any updates on how that new SI 12 is working out for you?


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## xlynoz (Jun 16, 2008)

Well I just joined the club, got my MKV delivered today. Can't wait to get the system build done to hear it. Never been to impressed with the shallow subs I have heard. They always seem to lack low end. It was a toss up between the 13TW3 and the MKV. I've read good reviews on both so I figured I'd save $250 and go with the MKV. Also talking with Nick over at SI really sealed the deal. I love it when a business is willing to take the time with the customer to discuss the details. Now if only TM65s were in stock, I'd really be set.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

ambesolman said:


> I have a '14 s4 with the b&o system and am looking at a bm for the trunk. Do you still have the factory sub in the rear deck? I've read good reports from other s4 owners that removing it to act as a port to the cabin works very well to increase output.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


def remove the oem sub , its a perfect port because the trunk is sealed pretty good otherwise ,


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Any updates on how that new SI 12 is working out for you?


just finishing building a new box , trying out some different air space options but so far its awesome !


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

xlynoz said:


> Well I just joined the club, got my MKV delivered today. Can't wait to get the system build done to hear it. Never been to impressed with the shallow subs I have heard. They always seem to lack low end. It was a toss up between the 13TW3 and the MKV. I've read good reviews on both so I figured I'd save $250 and go with the MKV. Also talking with Nick over at SI really sealed the deal. I love it when a business is willing to take the time with the customer to discuss the details. Now if only TM65s were in stock, I'd really be set.


nice !


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Any SPL measurements for the new sub setup? I remember you previously mentioned 128-129db with the 2 BMs.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Any SPL measurements for the new sub setup? I remember you previously mentioned 128-129db with the 2 BMs.


if i had to guess the new 12 inch at 1400 watts would be infinity spl , its insane how much output and linear stroke it has ...


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Nice. Like are we talking W7 output performance and audiofrog sq all in a smaller enclosure?


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## xlynoz (Jun 16, 2008)

audirsfaux said:


> nice !


Well now I'm really in. Picked up a second one and I haven't even got the first one installed. Blind faith is a great thing, lol.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Nice. Like are we talking W7 output performance and audiofrog sq all in a smaller enclosure?



yes !


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## Mashburn (Jun 26, 2018)

If that’s the case, I think I know what sub I will “upgrade” to if for some reason the 2 Bm Mk V’s won’t be enough in my Explorer.


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Same. What the enclosure size your settling on audirsfaux?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

audirsfaux said:


> yes !


Thanks Ian. Your input on the drivers we sent you has been extremely helpful. I'm glad that the RM-12 ended up working out so well for you. 

Technically the RM-12 reaches a .707 alignment in 0.69 ft^3 of airspace but we still recommend at least 1.0 ft^3 of air space. In-vehicle response is still well below 20 Hz in its small sealed enclosure and with 30 mm of one-way Xmax you have plenty of room to pour on the 1200 watts of power handling. 

During a phone call yesterday it was brought up to our attention that the RM-15 web page was up but the product could not be ordered so we made the necessary adjustments to the RM-15 web page and we also published the RM-12 web page (https://stereointegrity.com/product/rm-12/).


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## Mashburn (Jun 26, 2018)

Electrodynamic said:


> Thanks Ian. Your input on the drivers we sent you has been extremely helpful. I'm glad that the RM-12 ended up working out so well for you.
> 
> Technically the RM-12 reaches a .707 alignment in 0.69 ft^3 of airspace but we still recommend at least 1.0 ft^3 of air space. In-vehicle response is still well below 20 Hz in its small sealed enclosure and with 30 mm of one-way Xmax you have plenty of room to pour on the 1200 watts of power handling.
> 
> During a phone call yesterday it was brought up to our attention that the RM-15 web page was up but the product could not be ordered so we made the necessary adjustments to the RM-15 web page and we also published the RM-12 web page (https://stereointegrity.com/product/rm-12/).


That sub looks VERRY impressive on paper! If I didn’t have a MkV already waiting for install this would be very tempting!


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Electrodynamic said:


> Thanks Ian. Your input on the drivers we sent you has been extremely helpful. I'm glad that the RM-12 ended up working out so well for you.
> 
> Technically the RM-12 reaches a .707 alignment in 0.69 ft^3 of airspace but we still recommend at least 1.0 ft^3 of air space. In-vehicle response is still well below 20 Hz in its small sealed enclosure and with 30 mm of one-way Xmax you have plenty of room to pour on the 1200 watts of power handling.
> 
> During a phone call yesterday it was brought up to our attention that the RM-15 web page was up but the product could not be ordered so we made the necessary adjustments to the RM-15 web page and we also published the RM-12 web page (https://stereointegrity.com/product/rm-12/).


You missed an RM-15 in the description that should be changed, the T/S specs are still labeled RM-15, and the RM-12 isn't in the website menu. Otherwise, it's very nice to see the gap between spl and sq subs filled. There are a lot of us that out here that fit the sql crowd.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> You missed an RM-15 in the description that should be changed, the T/S specs are still labeled RM-15, and the RM-12 isn't in the website menu. Otherwise, it's very nice to see the gap between spl and sq subs filled. There are a lot of us that out here that fit the sql crowd.


Thanks for the tips. Everything is corrected now.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Electrodynamic said:


> Thanks for the tips. Everything is corrected now.


You're welcome. I just wish you had the RM-12's last year, before I blew my subwoofer budget.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

ckirocz28 said:


> You're welcome. I just wish you had the RM-12's last year, before I blew my subwoofer budget.


There might even be an RM-10 very soon. We already received an email asking about the possibility of a 10 inch version. First we have to look at drawings and mock one up to see if the motor will fit in the cutout.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Electrodynamic said:


> There might even be an RM-10 very soon. We already received an email asking about the possibility of a 10 inch version.


That's awesome


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

i would love to do some rm -10 testing , hint hint


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

chasingSQ said:


> i would love to do some rm -10 testing , hint hint


so would I, i think a pair of RM-12's would be a little too much bass for me...10's sound perfect


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> so would I, i think a pair of RM-12's would be a little too much bass for me...10's sound perfect


what is this too much bass you speak of??


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> so would I, i think a pair of RM-12's would be a little too much bass for me...10's sound perfect


i think 1 rm 12 would be the perfect solution


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

chasingSQ said:


> what is this too much bass you speak of??


even as i was typing, i knew it was wrong to say it.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

chasingSQ said:


> i think 1 rm 12 would be the perfect solution


I said that to Nick and he was like no, 2 12's. I said it to Andy too, and he said, no..2 12's LOL. i guess maybe they want to sell speakers.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

idk i had 2 gb12's in the s4 and prefered the single . and i had 1 rm12 and 2 would be nuts , and i love bass . soo take that for what its worth .

the one rm-12 in a 1.7 sealed box with 1500 watts was perfect for any type of music , loud as hell or sq , tracks sounded fantastic, clean and easily blended with the front stage ,


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

chasingSQ said:


> idk i had 2 gb12's in the s4 and prefered the single . and i had 1 rm12 and 2 would be nuts , and i love bass . soo take that for what its worth .
> 
> the one rm-12 in a 1.7 sealed box with 1500 watts was perfect for any type of music , loud as hell or sq , tracks sounded fantastic, clean and easily blended with the front stage ,



good to know, i had 2 GB 10's and preferred just one as well.


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## jrwalte (Mar 27, 2008)

miniSQ said:


> I said that to Nick and he was like no, 2 12's. I said it to Andy too, and he said, no..2 12's LOL. i guess maybe they want to sell speakers.


Why not single RM-15? Nick is building one for me right now. Anxious to try it out over my 12W7AE. I'll be using 1500w.


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## jrwalte (Mar 27, 2008)

chasingSQ said:


> idk i had 2 gb12's in the s4 and prefered the single . and i had 1 rm12 and 2 would be nuts , and i love bass . soo take that for what its worth .
> 
> the one rm-12 in a 1.7 sealed box with 1500 watts was perfect for any type of music , loud as hell or sq , tracks sounded fantastic, clean and easily blended with the front stage ,


Glad to hear that about the RM-12. I was in a toss up between IDMAX15 and RM-15 but couldn't find anything on the RM-15. I still decided to go with the RM-15 tho. I like trying new


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

jrwalte said:


> Why not single RM-15? Nick is building one for me right now. Anxious to try it out over my 12W7AE. I'll be using 1500w.


I considered that, but the box size scared me off. I think I said going to try a single rm-12 in a ported box.

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## Mashburn (Jun 26, 2018)

See, now y’all are making me second guess myself... I have a MkV and about to order another one to run 1000 watts in a 2012 Explorer. Making me wonder if I should go with the RM....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jrwalte (Mar 27, 2008)

Mashburn said:


> See, now y’all are making me second guess myself... I have a MkV and about to order another one to run 1000 watts in a 2012 Explorer. Making me wonder if I should go with the RM....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


chasingSQ had 2 MkV and switched to 1 RM-12. He appeared to like the single RM-12 more.


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## Mashburn (Jun 26, 2018)

I really don’t like the sound of that! Hahaha


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## Mashburn (Jun 26, 2018)

There needs to be a place to demo all this great gear! Lol


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## vinnie45acp (Jan 11, 2019)

Due to my limitations in the enclosure under my rear seat of my 2018 F150, I feel I need to go with two MKV's, I have been back and forth if I should go that route or two TW3's.

I feel I will go with dual MKv's due to the fact my priority is SQ and it will be paired with all Audio Frog speakers, and everyone that has heard or tested these MKV's has stated that they are clean, Very low hitting lower than the TW3's and full of quality SQ.

So if I go with the dual MKv's., what is the optimal set up for a mono amp? I know these are DVC 2x2ohm subs, but I could not find on SI website if they are safe at 1ohm, and I was thinking of running them with an ARC audio amp shared 1000W at 1ohm. Is the optimal set up 1000-1500w shared at 2ohms?


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## dhmcfadin (Sep 28, 2017)

The wiring impedance has no effect on the sub. The impedance affects the amplifier. It’s a matter of if your amp can support a 1 ohm load.

500-600 watts a sub would ideal.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

vinnie45acp said:


> Due to my limitations in the enclosure under my rear seat of my 2018 F150, I feel I need to go with two MKV's, I have been back and forth if I should go that route or two TW3's.
> 
> I feel I will go with dual MKv's due to the fact my priority is SQ and it will be paired with all Audio Frog speakers, and everyone that has heard or tested these MKV's has stated that they are clean, Very low hitting lower than the TW3's and full of quality SQ.
> 
> So if I go with the dual MKv's., what is the optimal set up for a mono amp? I know these are DVC 2x2ohm subs, but I could not find on SI website if they are safe at 1ohm, and I was thinking of running them with an ARC audio amp shared 1000W at 1ohm. Is the optimal set up 1000-1500w shared at 2ohms?


Its a D2 sub, and if you are doing 2 of them you will end up with a final mono load of 2 ohms, and I would use an amp that puts out between 600 and 800 watts into 2 ohms and be careful with your gains.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

all of these answers are correct , but i think 2 ohms final with 1000 watts tuned correctly is perfect for the bm mk5.


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

For my MkV pair, I’m going with:

MMATS M1000.2 for 1000 watts @ 2ohm (for if I combine the load to 2 ohms so each sub received 500 watts.)

or 

MMATS HiFi 4250 for 2 x 800 @ 4 ohms (gains set carefully since each Sub would be wired to 4 ohms and be receiving 800 watts each).


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> For my MkV pair, I’m going with:
> 
> MMATS 1000.2M for 1000 watts @ 2ohm
> 
> ...


i would do the [email protected] 2 ohm , and whats all this talk about keeping the gains low and being careful with the bm mk5 . i ran a solid 1200 watts to one in my testing and had no issues , 

i am running one now at 1 ohm , @1800 watts daily and its fine just not at ear bleeding levels they are stout and will take a beating for sure .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

vinnie45acp said:


> Due to my limitations in the enclosure under my rear seat of my 2018 F150, I feel I need to go with two MKV's, I have been back and forth if I should go that route or two TW3's.
> 
> I feel I will go with dual MKv's due to the fact my priority is SQ and it will be paired with all Audio Frog speakers, and everyone that has heard or tested these MKV's has stated that they are clean, Very low hitting lower than the TW3's and full of quality SQ.
> 
> So if I go with the dual MKv's., what is the optimal set up for a mono amp? I know these are DVC 2x2ohm subs, but I could not find on SI website if they are safe at 1ohm, and I was thinking of running them with an ARC audio amp shared 1000W at 1ohm. Is the optimal set up 1000-1500w shared at 2ohms?


i would go with the pair of mk5 , for sure in a truck , and yes 1k to 1500 a pair at 2 ohms is great


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

chasingSQ said:


> i would do the [email protected] 2 ohm , and whats all this talk about keeping the gains low and being careful with the bm mk5 . i ran a solid 1200 watts to one in my testing and had no issues..


Haha I edited “low” to “careful” just because I’m still fighting my usual notion that shallow subs shouldn’t normally handle that much power with composure. But I’m excited to hear what these are all about!

What enclosure size where you using when testing at 1200 watts?


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## Garcbomber (May 26, 2017)

If you need more than 500 continuous watts to move a 12” pancake capable of only 1/2” of linear excursion you have huge efficiency problems even in a small sealed environment.


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## Smash (Oct 4, 2011)

How would the SI BM MKV compare to the JL Audio 13TW5v2-4? I have room for two shallow subs under the rear seat in my F150. Pushing 1000 watts into 2 ohms.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Smash said:


> How would the SI BM MKV compare to the JL Audio 13TW5v2-4? I have room for two shallow subs under the rear seat in my F150. Pushing 1000 watts into 2 ohms.


Here is a comparison I did of the SI BM MKV to the JL Audio 12TW3. The 13TW5 is more shallow, designed for 2x4 walls I think since JL uses these subs in their in-wall subs too. Since it is more shallow, the 13TW5 doesn't have as much excursion capability as the 12TW3 or BM MKV. When I chose a sub to compare to the BM MKV for an inwall sub, I chose the 12TW3 over the 13TW5 due to the excursion which more than makes up for the slightly less cone area. Hope this helps.

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...ow-sub-comparison-jl-12tw3-vs-si-bm-mk-v.html


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Haha I edited “low” to “careful” just because I’m still fighting my usual notion that shallow subs shouldn’t normally handle that much power with composure. But I’m excited to hear what these are all about!
> 
> What enclosure size where you using when testing at 1200 watts?


i was using a .8 cf box in all my testing


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## EvAnA (Aug 20, 2012)

Electrodynamic said:


> There might even be an RM-10 very soon. We already received an email asking about the possibility of a 10 inch version. First we have to look at drawings and mock one up to see if the motor will fit in the cutout.


:worried::worried:
I was supposed to be done, now I have to find out about these 10s. If the specs and output are fairly comparable in regards to the 12s, I could have a successor to the ported 10w7s and get that 25hz and below content with two or three of them sealed.... just day dreamin


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## jrwalte (Mar 27, 2008)

The RM-15 arrived yesterday. Excited. Currently building the box. Hope to have it done by the weekend.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

jrwalte said:


> The RM-15 arrived yesterday. Excited. Currently building the box. Hope to have it done by the weekend.


My RM-12 arrives today....i have a ported box in progress. Is anyone else using these RM subs ported? I will post pictures tonight


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## jrwalte (Mar 27, 2008)

You must be the one who tried to bribe Nick to send you mine?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

jrwalte said:


> You must be the one who tried to bribe Nick to send you mine?


Nope, on the facebook picture, mine is the little one on the left, yours must be the one in the middle


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

miniSQ said:


> Nope, on the facebook picture, mine is the little one on the left, yours must be the one in the middle


:laugh:


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Here is the box it is going in..had it from an old build. Just needed to trim it down a little to fit the air space









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## jrwalte (Mar 27, 2008)

What's the padding you are using? I need to add some to mine.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

jrwalte said:


> What's the padding you are using? I need to add some to mine.


 Its just dacron sheets that i stapled to the edges. Thats 3 sheets worth. Its kind of thin so each piece is folded in half. 


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011MKJEJE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## jrwalte (Mar 27, 2008)

Thanks.

I remembered I have 2" acoustical foam egg crate lying around. Would this work just as well?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

jrwalte said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I remembered I have 2" acoustical foam egg crate lying around. Would this work just as well?


it should, for a sealed box if you just toss some pink insulation inside too it should be fine. 

BTW, i just got home and holy F, the 12" is so heavy, i had no idea. I can't imagine how much the 15" weighs. Fex ex said mine was 50lbs.


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## jrwalte (Mar 27, 2008)

Mine is about the same and the website says they are both the same weight.

I think they're basically the same speaker. Mine just has a bigger cone, so that automatically makes it better


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

jrwalte said:


> Mine is about the same and the website says they are both the same weight.
> 
> I think they're basically the same speaker. Mine just has a bigger cone, so that automatically makes it better


How awesome was Nick's packing? i buy a lot of stuff, and i have had some great packing in the past, but seriously? It was beyond perfection.

PS, sorry to have hijacked this thread!!!


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## dsquared (Aug 10, 2016)

Interested in what you think of the RM as I know how much you loved your GB .


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

dsquared said:


> Interested in what you think of the RM as I know how much you loved your GB .


the RM is a fantastic driver , built like a tank , huge motor structure and very good sq , it will take anything you can toss at it for power , and uses a smallish box , i highly recommend.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

chasingSQ said:


> the RM is a fantastic driver , built like a tank , huge motor structure and very good sq , it will take anything you can toss at it for power , and uses a smallish box , i highly recommend.


I think dsquared was fishing for some comparison with the Audiofrog sub, I know I am.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

ckirocz28 said:


> I think dsquared was fishing for some comparison with the Audiofrog sub, I know I am.


i should be able to offer some comparisons to the GB10 that the RM12 is replacing soon. But let me say that the GB was my 3rd favorite sub EVER, behind the 2 NHT1259's i had in an AP box a hundred years ago, and a single Eclipse 10 i had after that, but still a hundred years ago. Audiofrog GB's ROCK.

I am doing the RM in a similar ported box, but with double the power i gave to my GB. Honestly I am not sure what to expect.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> i should be able to offer some comparisons to the GB10 that the RM12 is replacing soon. But let me say that the GB was my 3rd favorite sub EVER, behind the 2 NHT1259's i had in an AP box a hundred years ago, and a single Eclipse 10 i had after that, but still a hundred years ago. Audiofrog GB's ROCK.
> 
> 
> 
> I am doing the RM in a similar ported box, but with double the power i gave to my GB. Honestly I am not sure what to expect.


Set your gain to a similar power level and give us as close a comparison as you can before finalizing everything.


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## Bielle (Dec 28, 2018)

miniSQ said:


> ckirocz28 said:
> 
> 
> > I think dsquared was fishing for some comparison with the Audiofrog sub, I know I am.
> ...


I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of the RM vs the GB. Both are on my short list for new subs. Have fun with that new sub. I'd be curious to see how the RM performed with the same power as the GB too.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

in my opinion with same power and in the same box , the gb and the rm are very similar in respects to sq , very detailed and accurate . the gb seems to be a little more efficient at times , even though the specs dont give that impression , how ever in real world testing the gb , retains its composure very well unless overdriven with power, then it gets a bit sloppy , the rm , well i dont have enough power i guess to make it act up , i was using my zapco st-2000 mk2 for the testing and the rm just sounded the same , at all times just incredible amounts of output and the sq did not really change , at any volume level , which was about 5 times the level i would use for "normal" listening , the rm hammers and laughs at pretty much anything i could toss at it , but cleans up and blends remarkably well when tuned to do so . I found the limits of the gb , but did not find the limit of the rm . or could not ..lol


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## dsquared (Aug 10, 2016)

ckirocz28 said:


> I think dsquared was fishing for some comparison with the Audiofrog sub, I know I am.


I was but still lots of good info here . 
Thanks


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

chasingSQ said:


> in my opinion with same power and in the same box , the gb and the rm are very similar in respects to sq , very detailed and accurate . the gb seems to be a little more efficient at times , even though the specs dont give that impression , how ever in real world testing the gb , retains its composure very well unless overdriven with power, then it gets a bit sloppy , the rm , well i dont have enough power i guess to make it act up , i was using my zapco st-2000 mk2 for the testing and the rm just sounded the same , at all times just incredible amounts of output and the sq did not really change , at any volume level , which was about 5 times the level i would use for "normal" listening , the rm hammers and laughs at pretty much anything i could toss at it , but cleans up and blends remarkably well when tuned to do so . I found the limits of the gb , but did not find the limit of the rm . or could not ..lol


what box did you use for the RM-12? And is it a D4 or D2?


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

miniSQ said:


> what box did you use for the RM-12? And is it a D4 or D2?



its a d4 , and i used a 1.5 cf box sealed


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

chasingSQ said:


> its a d4 , and i used a 1.5 cf box sealed


Cool thanks. Mine is smaller...about 1.2 gross. Haven't fired it up yet. Glue is still drying. I tried ported, but i decided sealed might be better with this driver.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Adrock (Jan 21, 2019)

Interesting read. I am finishing up my build and will be using a JL 12w6v3 sealed. I have had my eye on the SI BM MKV for awhile, but wanted to finish up what i have currently first and use it as a baseline. I have been very tempted bu the AF GB12 as well.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Adrock said:


> Interesting read. I am finishing up my build and will be using a JL 12w6v3 sealed. I have had my eye on the SI BM MKV for awhile, but wanted to finish up what i have currently first and use it as a baseline. I have been very tempted bu the AF GB12 as well.


The JL 12w6 is comparable to the AF GB12 but not really the BM mk V as that is a shallow subwoofer. If you have the depth, you might want to look at the RM12, which is the comparable SI subwoofer to the other 2. 

I did a quick comparison of the JL 12TW3 shallow subwoofer and the BM mk V in case that helps any.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...ow-sub-comparison-jl-12tw3-vs-si-bm-mk-v.html


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## Adrock (Jan 21, 2019)

dgage said:


> The JL 12w6 is comparable to the AF GB12 but not really the BM mk V as that is a shallow subwoofer. If you have the depth, you might want to look at the RM12, which is the comparable SI subwoofer to the other 2.
> 
> I did a quick comparison of the JL 12TW3 shallow subwoofer and the BM mk V in case that helps any.
> https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...ow-sub-comparison-jl-12tw3-vs-si-bm-mk-v.html


Thanks. What I like about the BM is the size. I have plenty of room (5th Gen 4Runner), but I don't.... I have a family and there is always something in the rear. I like the idea of a down firing box with a short profile. If the 12w6 is way more than I need, I might go for the BM. If I'm good with the size of my test box and I am looking for a different sound then I might go for the GB12. However, I will keep the RM12 on the list too. I might be completely satisfied the the JL. You never know..... I have this particular sound in my mind that I'm trying to find. It's like a drug!


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

We did a fiberglass enclosure (built by Bradknob) in my sisters 5th gen 4Runner housing a SI BM Mkiv. She wanted to retain the entire rear cargo space so this was really the only option. I was quite impressed with the output, but SQ is really really good. It’s definitely enough to fill in the low frequencies.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

dgage said:


> The JL 12w6 is comparable to the AF GB12 but not really the BM mk V as that is a shallow subwoofer. If you have the depth, you might want to look at the RM12, which is the comparable SI subwoofer to the other 2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It should be pointed out that the SI RM subs have 30mm xmax versus 17.6mm for the Audiofrog and 17mm for the JL, way more spl capability with comparable sq.


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## Adrock (Jan 21, 2019)

pw91686 said:


> We did a fiberglass enclosure (built by Bradknob) in my sisters 5th gen 4Runner housing a SI BM Mkiv. She wanted to retain the entire rear cargo space so this was really the only option. I was quite impressed with the output, but SQ is really really good. It’s definitely enough to fill in the low frequencies.


Man! That looks awesome. I'm totally in it for sq, but there are times when I want it to get down. That was why I chose the 12w6. I know people think it's overrated and overpriced, but I have heard great things and it's the only sub I could audition. It's tough where I am at. The aftermarket scene is mainstream and it's tough to get exposure to some boutique brands. I just don't have the money to throw around on something that might be a total disappointment. The BM MKV is still shaping up to be on my list if the JL doesn't really pan out for me.


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## Naptownsoldier1488 (Jul 9, 2016)

The gb12d4 has 19mm xmax one way the d2 has 17.5 one way different amount of voicecoil in the gap not that 1.5mm makes much difference and most subs can be driven 15%past xmax with out much fuss 2 gb12 is more than anuff output for any sq system /sql


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

So anyone care to share some feedback on the rm drivers that you have ?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

chasingSQ said:


> So anyone care to share some feedback on the rm drivers that you have ?


I tried the rm-12 in a ported box to begin, because thats what i had my GB10 in. I modified an existing box to be sure i had the proper volume and port and i hated the sound. So i pulled it out and built a sealed box to spec. Well a little larger than spec maybe...it comes to about 1.25 cuft after subtracting displacement of sub and brace. And it is loosely stuffed with some poly.

Sealed it sounds great...i truly love this driver..clean...lots of impact, and a better SQ sound than i expected.

But if i was to be 100% honest, if i had to choose between the 2, i would take the AF GB, as i find it more versatile if you like ported boxes, its 15 pounds lighter, and they both sound great. I have no desire to switch back to the GB at the moment, but knowing what i know now, i think the GB would be my choice for future builds.


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## jrwalte (Mar 27, 2008)

in below thread I talk about the RM-15 I got. I haven't heard AF GB so I can't compare. I've only had RD Audio 15 and the JL 12W7. I like the RM-15 the most.

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...ment-my-car/412937-idmax15-vs-si-rm-15-a.html


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## ManBearPig (Jul 18, 2016)

jrwalte said:


> in below thread I talk about the RM-15 I got. I haven't heard AF GB so I can't compare. I've only had RD Audio 15 and the JL 12W7. I like the RM-15 the most.
> 
> https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...ment-my-car/412937-idmax15-vs-si-rm-15-a.html


You had the w7 in the wrong enclosure.
Not a fair comparison.


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## jrwalte (Mar 27, 2008)

I also had it in a sealed enclosure, if that's what you mean. And I was stuck at 750 watts with my setup. I never said the W7 sucks but with my setup, the RM-15 is way better. And half the cost of a W7, mind you. It was never a comparison.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Any updates or thoughts on the rm’s out there? 

I just ordered mine and nick just sent some pics of the build. Can’t wait to go get it. Then wait until I have a chance to build a box. Yuck. Hurry up and wait.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Iamsecond said:


> Any updates or thoughts on the rm’s out there?
> 
> I just ordered mine and nick just sent some pics of the build. Can’t wait to go get it. Then wait until I have a chance to build a box. Yuck. Hurry up and wait.


I love my RM-12, super tight, and great SQ. I didn't love the ported box as much as i was hoping, it was kind of sloppy sounding. But i built a sealed box and its much better. To be fair, the ported box was a bit of a franken-box so i may try again and have someone model the specs for me. But sealed is solid!!


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## Gonzo2770 (Aug 22, 2016)

miniSQ said:


> I love my RM-12, super tight, and great SQ. I didn't love the ported box as much as i was hoping, it was kind of sloppy sounding. But i built a sealed box and its much better. To be fair, the ported box was a bit of a franken-box so i may try again and have someone model the specs for me. But sealed is solid!!


What size box do you have your RM-12 in?


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Gonzo2770 said:


> What size box do you have your RM-12 in?


Its about 1.4 cuft gross...which may be a tad too big.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Since Nick seems to be building these RMs to order, is he providing individual T/S parameters for each driver? That could be a nice little bonus for customers in designing the "perfect" enclosure for their specific subwoofer.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

rton20s said:


> Since Nick seems to be building these RMs to order, is he providing individual T/S parameters for each driver? That could be a nice little bonus for customers in designing the "perfect" enclosure for their specific subwoofer.


I believe Fi Car Audio will built to order for you as well.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Against my better half’s desires and wishes I ran over to the Stereo Integrity shop to pick up my rm12. I got to spend some time listening to Nicks car and the system is great and the sub was outstanding. Tight, controlled and seamlessly integrated into the front stage. I can’t wait to get mine in. Oh well, I am getting insurance license and will be out of pocket for the next few weeks studying for test. Love more education.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Since Nick seems to be building these RMs to order, is he providing individual T/S parameters for each driver? That could be a nice little bonus for customers in designing the "perfect" enclosure for their specific subwoofer.


We don't measure T/S parameters for every single driver that we build as all of the same drivers (D2 or D4) are built the same with the same parts, same glue, etc, so they all measure within 10% of each other which is well within tolerance for even a full production run. We did, however, measure (and provide) the substantially changed T/S parameters for the IB version we built for Jason Kable (1finalInstall - sp?).


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Iamsecond said:


> Against my better half’s desires and wishes I ran over to the Stereo Integrity shop to pick up my rm12. I got to spend some time listening to Nicks car and the system is great and the sub was outstanding. Tight, controlled and seamlessly integrated into the front stage. I can’t wait to get mine in. Oh well, I am getting insurance license and will be out of pocket for the next few weeks studying for test. Love more education.


It is always a pleasure seeing you and talking shop. And it was even more of a pleasure giving you a demo and watching your reactions as I played tracks from 2 or 3 CD's showing you what the two way's (TM65 mkIII/M25) can do right along side a single RM-12 being fed with 1,000 watts in a 1.0 ft^3 sealed box.


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## SPAZ (Jan 7, 2009)

I was looking for a different sub to try out or get an additional AF GB12D4 but when I saw the RM-12 for sale I decided to try it out. I love the Audiofrog GB12D4 that I have but I just wanted a little more output than I was getting. 
I had the GB12 ported and it sounded great but I think the low-end is better on this sub when it is sealed and it suits my overall tastes better plus real estate in the back matters to me more these days. Anyway, Nick from SI I think builds these as the
orders come in. I noticed a pic on their facebook page that he added a carbon fiber dustcap on one of his other subs and it looked really good. So I called and asked him if this was possible on the RM-12. Luckily, the following day he was getting shiny and matte finish carbon fiber dustcaps from his supplier so he took pics of it and sent it to me. The look of the shiny dustcap on the RM-12 looked really good in the pics and in fact looks even better in person. I will start out by saying that besides setting the low pass I have not tuned the sub frequencies yet. I am working with a 1 cu ft internal volume box. I know the box this small might not be ideal but these are the parameters I am working with since I am trying to keep the space used by the sub to a minimum. I take the GB12 out and put the RM-12 in. This sub is noticeably heavier than the GB12. I start playing some music and try and discern differences between the two subs. Here are my intitial thoughts so far. The GB12 seems more sensitive than the RM-12. I have a jl audio hd1200/1 so I have enough power to move both subs as needed. The RM-12 really reminds me of the JBL GTI mk2 I had that I regrettably sold to ndm on this forum  The RM-12 has good presence and seems to mix better with my midbass than the GB12. I think the GB12 seems a little more transparent overall than the RM-12 sub. Most importantly, I did this specifically to get more SPL out of my setup and I have to say mission accomplished. The RM-12 with the HD1200/1 gets loud enough to hurt my ears, no bs. I could not get this type of SPL from one sealed GB12 (Ported I could). I want to play around with both subs a little further and do a little tuning but I have to say the RM-12 is a steal for the current price and I think SI has a winner on their hands. Bottom line both subs are phenomenal but so far this has been my experience in a very short time so take it for what it's worth.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

With double the power handling, the SI RM-12 should get louder. Curious, how much power did you put on the GB12?


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## SPAZ (Jan 7, 2009)

Both with the same amp hd1200/1. Both were running at 2 ohms.


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

So you unleashed the full 1200 watts RMS on the GB12 when it’s rated 600 and did exceed xmax?


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## SPAZ (Jan 7, 2009)

I've had the GB12 for a couple of years now with no issue and still going strong. I'm sensible and fully understand I have to be careful with that much power.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Electrodynamic said:


> Yes you can use in infinite baffle.


Nick,

I think he should use this sub in IB. that way there is no need for a box, you could put 2 of them, have enough output for front stage, and shaking car.. I don't think i could ever go back to box setup. I'm in for IB all the way, no matter how much effort it takes, and hours to make it right... 

IB isn't for everyone, not everyone likes IB, but with low extensions, and how well it does it. 

Even single 15" IB should do very well


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

@Nick, how does the RM12 compare to the MagV3? I've run that sub before and it packed a serious wallop.


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## Polkster99 (Mar 5, 2019)

Does anyone know what kind of turn around time once the rm 12 is ordered?


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## SPAZ (Jan 7, 2009)

I think I had it within 5 or 6 business days delivered.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Polkster99 said:


> Does anyone know what kind of turn around time once the rm 12 is ordered?


same for me...5 or 6 days.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

fourthmeal said:


> @Nick, how does the RM12 compare to the MagV3? I've run that sub before and it packed a serious wallop.


Mag v3's were good drivers but the RM-12 is better in every aspect. RM's play lower and higher, have higher linear excursion, are able to get louder, have bettter transient response (lower inductance), etc. And even though I'm nostalgic I prefer the looks of the RM over the mag.


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## 50TYSON (Mar 7, 2011)

I want to use two of the BM's in a rear deck baffle. Yea a high xmax 12 or 15 would be better but I need to preserve my trunk space. 

I modeled them in winisd for a 9.1 cu ft enclosure and the curve looks good with a qtc of .582. 

Any reason not to do it?


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

I did a “shootout” between the SI BM MK V and JL 12TW3. BM has just a little more output with less space required.

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...ow-sub-comparison-jl-12tw3-vs-si-bm-mk-v.html

You already realize you’re giving up a little in output due to the shallow sub design constraints but that’s it. It’s a very good normal subwoofer and very, very good considering the enclosure size/depth required.

I’ll be using 4 of the BM MK Vs for an inwall sub offering, just waiting for our shipment to come in.


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

I came to this post looking for insight on the GB12, but After reading through all of this information, I'm still undecided but now I'm thinking a 15" or 2, RM-15 or JBL 15gti or IDMAX-15. I will let cost determine I guess. In a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I want to go with a sealed box. Music type is Jazz, and some DR.DRE. I will have about 1200 watts RMS @1 ohm on tap. SO I guess a Pair of RM 15" subs will do.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Bud, I’m 46 as well. I listen to everything and I will say that my single rm12 fills my 4Runner with plenty of low end. 2 15s is fine but keeping room in the cargo area is golden.
If you were in the market for the gb12, the rm12 will amaze you and save you some coin as well. Just my biased opinion lol.

Ha, I just realized I’m only a few hours away from you. We just stopped in Kalamazoo MI to spend the night. Wife wants to go to Detroit tomorrow to tool around but I think we’ll go on to Chicago. Who knows. Lol


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

I think your right. 1 15" should be sufficient. And I wish you were coming to Detroit tomorrow, I'd try to meet up if you had your car with the sub in it just so I could hear it.but the I biased part of me says hit Chicago! Lol.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

manish said:


> I think your right. 1 15" should be sufficient. And I wish you were coming to Detroit tomorrow, I'd try to meet up if you had your car with the sub in it just so I could hear it.but the I biased part of me says hit Chicago! Lol.


agreed a single rm-15 or even rm-12 is plenty. Just keep in mind the rm-15 box is going to be at least double the size of the rm-12 box if memory serves. I debated 15, and in the end went with the 12 based on box size. it is PLENTY of sub bass.


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## ambesolman (Feb 5, 2018)

dgage said:


> I’ll be using 4 of the BM MK Vs for an inwall sub offering, just waiting for our shipment to come in.




You have a pm


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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