# Jason's changes to TSX install



## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

It's been a while since I mucked around with my stereo. I recently started a new/challenging job, with a long commute, and selling my home to move closer to work...all of these contributing to a real lack of time for stereo work.

So I have been contemplating this for a while and finally "really" got started this weekend.

Some of my prior experiments were posted on here:

Newer: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/60338-operation-8s-doors.html

Older: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/57706-my-ride-2004-tsx.html

Now I am contemplating the following:

Keeping my Peerless SLS 6.5's in the sealed kickpods, as dedicated midbass.
Ditching the mids in the doors.
Making A-pillar pods for Fountek FR88EX full-range and either my old Vifa DQ25SC16-04 tweets or Dayton ND20FB-4.
Swapping out my amps for compact Eclipse EA4200's (x3) which I got a deal on at Crutchfield. These amps will drive the midbass, mids, tweets, and rear fill. I'll be keeping my sub amp (JBL BP1200.1) for now anyway as it has been a tank for me. Not sure about the sub/box change just yet, needs more thought.

Pix to come.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Progress from this weekend. One of the few chances I'll have to do work on this. At this point, I only have the Founteks and SLSs running, using the built-in amp crossovers, and some minor EQ capability from the head unit. The SLS are crossed from 31Hz to ~250Hz and are pretty remarkable for sub duty in small enclosures. The Founteks are x'd from ~315Hz on up. Not running any tweeters right now, but the Founteks do a decent job on the high end.

Some pics of progress on the A-pillars. The bottom part of the covers have been cut off and replaced by fiberglass replicas. Obviously some cosmetics to take care of, and need to tame some resonances. EQ'ing I am limited until I get my 360.2 back in the picture. In the system's current state, the Founteks and SLS don't sound bad at all.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Nice. I have the Fountek's in the pillars & love 'em! Do you know how much volume you have in those kickpods for the SLS's?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

The kicks have 0.2 cubes internal each and are filled with polyester fiberfill.

On the A-pillars, the Founteks are clearly "exciting" the fiberglass pod/cover, resulting in some resonance issues and coloring...even with 3 layers of FG and some bondo-glass. Did you use anything to combat resonance in the pillars?



fish said:


> Nice. I have the Fountek's in the pillars & love 'em! Do you know how much volume you have in those kickpods for the SLS's?


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## bmwproboi05 (May 3, 2009)

this is going to get good


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

jsun_g said:


> The kicks have 0.2 cubes internal each and are filled with polyester fiberfill.
> 
> On the A-pillars, the Founteks are clearly "exciting" the fiberglass pod/cover, resulting in some resonance issues and coloring...even with 3 layers of FG and some bondo-glass. Did you use anything to combat resonance in the pillars?


You should try another layer of FG but mix sand in the resin and see if that helps cure the flexing. Also, add in a layer of vibration dampener like dynamat extreme or whatever you have. That should help. 
One other resource is get in contact with Jan/Monte Bennett. They are local here and have REALLY strong build methods. I'm sure they can help out.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks. Reinforcements are coming...literally. By the time these things are done, they're gonna weigh like 15 pounds each 
I'm also going to try isolating the mids from the pods with butyl rubber or something similar, and closed-cell foam wedged between the pod where it touches the pillar, maybe an MDF barrier at the top part of the pod (inside the pod) to keep the back wave from traveling up the rest of the pillar cover.




jonnyanalog said:


> You should try another layer of FG but mix sand in the resin and see if that helps cure the flexing. Also, add in a layer of vibration dampener like dynamat extreme or whatever you have. That should help.
> One other resource is get in contact with Jan/Monte Bennett. They are local here and have REALLY strong build methods. I'm sure they can help out.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

I didn't get to hear your car at the meet. I hope to hear it at the next one.

Good Luck!


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

It's okay, you didn't miss much. I had my A-pillar covers removed and tweeters temporarily velcro'd in place, crossed over by caps. I would have liked to hear more systems too...I only got to hear Mir's system. Next time for sure.

Which was your ride BTW?



bassfromspace said:


> I didn't get to hear your car at the meet. I hope to hear it at the next one.
> 
> Good Luck!


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Black g35 with a non-working setup.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Ahhhh, I remember. Your setup is gonna rock when it's finished. I am jealous of your doors. Funny how many of us had half done (or half apart) setups. A DIYer's work is never done


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

no joke. My car has been missing at least the door panels for the better part of 6 months. My car at the meet had 3/4 of the IP, carpet/headliner and seats.


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## arrivalanche (Jun 27, 2008)

My suggestion is buy new door panels and stop messing up a nice car. your kicks are fine, but what you did to those doors is just terrible.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Made some more progress on my poor car today.
I painted the pillars/pods just for now so they don't look like pink cows. The pods are much more solid now with additional fiberglass and bondo/bondoglass treatment. Also isolating the Founteks from the pods with rubberized foam gasket and will be isolating the front edge of the pod (where it touches the front of the pillar/windshield) with rubberized foam as well.

Still todo: add a barrier at the top of the pods to prevent sound from traveling up the rest of the pillar.





































The Vifa tweets I de-flanged. I'll be integrating these somehow into the front stage to make up for the Fountek's raggedy top end.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Hey guys, sorry for the slowness. I have been putting in some effort here and there, but I just don't get much time, so below is my latest effort.

Progress since last report:

1) removed first wiring job (hastily done when I bought the car in 2004).
2) prepared new wiring (techflex, heatshrink, etc.)
3) ran new wiring (1/0 for power/ground, 6-channel RCAs from HU to trunk, speaker wire techflexed into left/right sides (3 channels per side for active front stage)
4) obtained new fuse holder for under the hood (I bought the previous one around 1995 and it was showing its age) and made a mount for it
5) tore apart an old sub box I built after I bought the car and am going to re-use the fiberglass tub part rather than glass a new one. I also am using the top as a template for my new box which will be sealed and holding two Image Dynamics IDv.3 10's, flush mount with the trunk floor
6) started work on the amp rack. It will hold the 4 Eclipse amps (I bought a ZA1200 from newtitan on here which matches the other 3). The amp rack should just fit between the rear wheel wells

No progress on the front stage since I am focusing on this other stuff right now. The jury is still out on whether to use A-pillar fullrange drivers. I haven't tried them with tweeters so I have to reserve final judgement, but my stage width has decreased from having mids in the doors, while the center and placement of everything from left to right side is much better.

Pics and more comments coming up...
-Jason


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Getting the wiring ready.



















One side of speaker wire run down the left side along with the power wire, the other side of speaker run down the right side along with the RCAs. 4 runs of wire total plus remote turn-on lead = much easier than running 6 pairs of speaker wires and 3 RCAs.



















There is a hole in the cross-member the front seats bolt onto, I used a snap bushing on each side to put wire thru.










Wires coming into the trunk.




























Cleaned up the engine compartment a little bit while I had the hood up.










Sub box and amp rack coming next...


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Sub box and amp rack.

Cut off the fiberglass tub portion of my old box that used to house 2 8's. It was ported where you see the notched cut-out; the ports fired into the very back of the car. The top in the picture is heading for the trash.










Test-fit of cutout for new box. I just traced the old box's top part as a template. It will sit flush with the trunk trim on the sides.










The subs will be counter-sunk 1" under the grille to allow for excursion.










When my wife came out to the garage at 9am this morning, I told her I was sealing the T-nuts. She gave me a look like I was from another planet.










With grille cutout on top:










Drawing out the template for the amp rack. I should be able to squeeze all 4 amps between the wheel wells...barely.










Here you see the outline of the amps. Took a bit of strategy to lay out the holes for wiring while keeping the amps together and not having any wires show. The drilled holes will be for wire runs and there will be snap bushings on each side of the MDF. The large circles traced in the cener of the amps will be cut out to conserve on weight. The rectangle at the front of the amp rack will be cut out for flush-mounted power distribution.










That's all for now. Any questions/comments, please post them.
I still have no sounds in my car and with a 2.5 hour commute every day it is hard not to rush the install. Just a few more weeks...


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

Looking good. 

I hate t-nuts


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

I spent a lot of time working on this over the weekend, but doesn't seem like much progress.

The amp rack wiring job took me about 3 hours.

I tried out this Neffy Wrap that I ordered...it looks *kind of* like carbon fiber...I just wanted something that would be minimum hassle in working with. It stretches more than most vinyl and doesn't require heat to do so. It is very thin though, so imperfections and un-even glue spreading will show. All in all, not a bad product. Dummy me applied the wrap so the pattern is a different direction on the bottom A-pillar piece than the top piece! I'll re-do the top piece since the bottom piece (with the full-range pod) is insanely difficult to upholster without a seam.

Right now the sub box "tub" is 5 layers of FG and a layer of Bondo-glass on top. I will be adding bracing soon.

Pix coming...


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

The rectangular cutout is where the power distros will eventually go.










Saving on weight and maybe giving the amps a little more area to vent heat.










Wire prep. Measure twice, cut once.










Amps were pulled together and screwed back in once wiring was run.










Wiring job done.










Wires routed out the bottom of the amp rack.










Trying some of that wrap on the A-pillars and pods. Needs a little rework but not too bad. Speaker hole is not cut out yet.

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7123/img1474e.jpg

Slow progress on sub box but getting there...


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Made some good progress this weekend. The sub box is pretty much done, except for things like finishing the grille and checking for air leaks. It takes a couple seconds for the subs to return to normal position when I press down on them with my hands, so I am not expecting much in the way of air leakage.

The "tub" or "belly" is now attached to the top, with some more f'glass and bondo-glass, and MDF supports. The box is about 20 pieces of MDF, give or take, and probably 6 or 7 yards of fiberglass cloth & 2 cans of bondo-glass.
I painted it black even though it wouldn't be visible when it is in the car.










And right side up:










I had some aluminum sheet hanging around, figured it might be something nice to put around the subs when pondering how on earth I was going to get the carbon fiber vinyl to stretch down a 1" recess.










Trying the rings in place:










Ring fit pic #2. Remember length = 2*PI*R 
Added binding posts.










Test fit with subs.










I need to paint where the subs mount to, because a little of it is visible between the sub and the ring if you catch it at the right angle. Other than that and the grille, the sub box is done and ready for mounting. Next I'll create a "bridge" between the sub box and amp rack, and this will hold the processor(s).


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Now THAT is a box! Bravo man, I'm really impressed with that. You should be really proud of that thing!


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks! Appreciate it! It seems like the box has taken forever, even though I salvaged the "tub" part from a previous box. The real verdict will come when I get to listen to it with the rest of my system. I am very tempted to throw everything and rig it together, but the result would suffer. So still without tunes, for now anyway.


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## Mako312 (May 10, 2010)

Where did you get that wrap at? I thought it was carbon fiber.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

It's Neffy Wrap. It's like a (thin) vinyl with a CF weave to it.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Would you mind sharing how you deflanged those Vifa tweets? I'd love to try them in my TSX as well.


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## Mako312 (May 10, 2010)

Thanks. 

It's funny how they try to sell a razor blade and some adhesive spray for $2 and $15]

You just made my life a lot easier!


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> Now THAT is a box! Bravo man, I'm really impressed with that. You should be really proud of that thing!


Word. Very nice. Lovin' the binding posts' position.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

I took the brute force approach with a Dremmel and ~1.5" cutting bit. A steady hand is needed as you go around. I cut into the flange a little at a time. After about 3 passes, the flange was cut off. Then I sanded down imperfections with an orbital sander.



npdang said:


> Would you mind sharing how you deflanged those Vifa tweets? I'd love to try them in my TSX as well.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

jsun_g said:


> I took the brute force approach with a Dremmel and ~1.5" cutting bit. A steady hand is needed as you go around. I cut into the flange a little at a time. After about 3 passes, the flange was cut off. Then I sanded down imperfections with an orbital sander.


Wow, great job they look entirely smooth and even. FWIW, the Seas neodymium tweeters fit perfectly into the stock hole. They even "snap" into the recess firmly.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

A+ for ease of install, unknown grade for sound from that location/direction. IMHO, my wife's stock system in her 2006 Accord coupe sounds better than my stock TSX system...go figure.



npdang said:


> Wow, great job they look entirely smooth and even. FWIW, the Seas neodymium tweeters fit perfectly into the stock hole. They even "snap" into the recess firmly.


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## perfecxionx (Sep 4, 2009)

are you running all of that off of stock electrical?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Stock alternator, yes. Stock battery, no. Never had a problem with headlights dimming with my previous setup (JBP BP1200.1 on subs and 2 RF Punch 150s (the new ones)) and voltage at the amps never dropped below 12 when the bass hit, so I don't expect a problem with this setup. I do have a 40 farad electrolytic cap, so that may be helping.


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

npdang said:


> Wow, great job they look entirely smooth and even. FWIW, the Seas neodymium tweeters fit perfectly into the stock hole. They even "snap" into the recess firmly.


Pardon the silly question: is this from the top or from the back?


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## sn95chico (May 10, 2010)

great build bro 

i really like the car and the equipment 

but i would get focal speakers 

i really really really can tell you how much i love focal speakers


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

If you love Focal that much, why don't you have a Focal sub? :surprised:



sn95chico said:


> great build bro
> 
> i really like the car and the equipment
> 
> ...


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## sn95chico (May 10, 2010)

i just love focal speakers but



i love my w7 in the h.o box more


its the best sounding and tightest sounding subs i have ever owned


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## sn95chico (May 10, 2010)

how do you change your signature on the bottom of the page 

i cant figure it out


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

User CP->Edit Signature 



sn95chico said:


> how do you change your signature on the bottom of the page
> 
> i cant figure it out


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## sn95chico (May 10, 2010)

Thanks i figured it out

So how do the speakers that you have know sound do they have good mid bass 

also what do you think about he Eclipse amps


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

So far, I like the Eclipse amps a lot, considering the price especially. I haven't given the ZA1200 a run yet, just a couple of the EA4200s. I haven't noticed any lack of output in the top octaves in spite of their class D design.

I really like the Peerless SLS in small sealed boxes in the kickpods. I was running without a sub for a while and they could easily play down to the EA4200's subsonic filter and have decent output while doing so. My car's interior has a peak around 125-160Hz and it is nice that the SLS in this setup don't make the situation any worse.


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## WardyTN (Jun 30, 2010)

Project looks good! 

Do you happen to have a link or diagram on how you wired your headunit? I have the Acura MP3 panel, but haven't installed my headunit due to the factory amp, climate control, etc.


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## timmay77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Very nice, beautiful car too BTW....


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

I guess the website update/rollback ate my reply to your post.
There are wiring diagrams for the car in the Haynes manual. Really all you need to know are +12v constant, ignition, and ground, unless you are tapping into the signal wiring.



WardyTN said:


> Project looks good!
> 
> Do you happen to have a link or diagram on how you wired your headunit? I have the Acura MP3 panel, but haven't installed my headunit due to the factory amp, climate control, etc.


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## bmwproboi05 (May 3, 2009)

WardyTN said:


> Project looks good!
> 
> Do you happen to have a link or diagram on how you wired your headunit? I have the Acura MP3 panel, but haven't installed my headunit due to the factory amp, climate control, etc.


just like he said. if you want u can do it how i did it go to the tsxclub an go to first gen electronic an look for my post same username, or if your lazy to get the harness run a 12volt line from bat, ignition wire from the cig lighter or use the add a fuse most ofthose only comeon with the car, and ground it inside the pocket hole there alot of metal in there.


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## bmwproboi05 (May 3, 2009)

OMFG you have got to be kidding me on running the wirers were the seats are!!!! i did it a more painful way!!!!!!! ARRRRRRR.lol guess thats what i get for not tearing the car up


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Yeah, there is precious little room to run wires along the rails, given the factory wires that are already there, and the plastic tabs and whatnot from the trim panels.

One very important piece of info, and you'll thank me later: whereever you have wires running over those factory sound deadener mat pieces, wrap your wires with Saran Wrap (plastic wrap from the kitchen). When it gets hot in the car, and with the pressure of carpet/feet/whatever pressing the wire onto the mat pieces, that junk gets all over the wires. Doesn't matter if you have them wrapped in tech-flex, it's still going to be a mess unless you wrap 'em in plastic wrap.



bmwproboi05 said:


> OMFG you have got to be kidding me on running the wirers were the seats are!!!! i did it a more painful way!!!!!!! ARRRRRRR.lol guess thats what i get for not tearing the car up


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## bmwproboi05 (May 3, 2009)

jsun_g said:


> Yeah, there is precious little room to run wires along the rails, given the factory wires that are already there, and the plastic tabs and whatnot from the trim panels.
> 
> One very important piece of info, and you'll thank me later: whereever you have wires running over those factory sound deadener mat pieces, wrap your wires with Saran Wrap (plastic wrap from the kitchen). When it gets hot in the car, and with the pressure of carpet/feet/whatever pressing the wire onto the mat pieces, that junk gets all over the wires. Doesn't matter if you have them wrapped in tech-flex, it's still going to be a mess unless you wrap 'em in plastic wrap.


thx man. i just did tat. i ran through the suspension area... which you know there deadner there.lol

anyhow did you ever try to instal speakers in the stock location. im affraid my speakers wont fit due to the depth being somewhere along almst 4inch


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Can't help ya much on the stock speaker location mounting. The stock locations suck IMHO. I did have my mids mounted near the stock locations in the lower front doors but now the midrange is coming from the lower A-pillars which I've found to be a better place with a little work.

You could do buildouts on the front doors and if your door panel is anything similar to mine, you should be able to get away with a little build-out before the speaker touches the plastic door panel (you might even be able to cut away some of the inside of the plastic panel for additional clearance).




bmwproboi05 said:


> thx man. i just did tat. i ran through the suspension area... which you know there deadner there.lol
> 
> anyhow did you ever try to instal speakers in the stock location. im affraid my speakers wont fit due to the depth being somewhere along almst 4inch


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

I got the sub box in the other day and amp rack as well. I finally have tunes! Right now, the Founteks, Peerless SLS, and ID subs are running. I gave the Founteks a little boost around 10k and cut around 4k via the head unit and other than that no EQ at the moment. I don't even have the 360.2 hooked up. It sounds pretty darn good. Herbie Hancock: Rockit FTW! Also, Aerosmith's "Love in an Elevator", when he says "gooooing dowwwwwwwn", it is pretty much the same height (ear level) as it sweeps from left to center to right.

Will get some more pics up here in the next day or 2, I just haven't uploaded them yet.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Ok, time for some updates.

I started working on the (wrong) distro blocks that Autotoys.com sent me. Given the company's bad rep, I decided not to even try returning them, so I just adapted them to my needs.

Sub box is in and midbass, full-range, and subs are hooked up. What a difference in the sound of a sealed sub box...I am liking it over ported. It has a deeper, more solid tone, and blends a lot better with the front stage. Right now, the only EQ I am using is on the HU, with a 2dB cut at 4kHz and +4dB at 10kHz due to not having the tweeters wired in yet. No processor is hooked up at this time.

I played around with tweeter location, just using a good quality electrolytic cap on each (probably ~8kHz xover freq) to add some sparkle on the top end. I didn't think I would...but I prefer the sail panel mounting location. The stage just sounds wider and more coherent.

Pix coming.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

I guess I didn't upload any pictures of the A-pillars, so here is one (sorry it's a little blurry). It is split into 2 pieces so the speaker/pod does not interfere with the airbag deployment and also because I wanted to make the pod portion very solid.










The *wrong* distro blocks that Autotoys.com sent me:









Luckily, beneath the molten plastic circles on the back were some screws...



























Added silicone drops to the back of the mount where the screws are to make sure it won't short from underneath.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Getting the sub box and amp rack in.










I still need to make a removable "bridge" piece and clean up some wiring.









On to the tweeter pods.


















I tried to make the raised part of the pod as flush and tight a fit as possible, so the tweeter can be press-fit into place. For this, I wrapped the perimeter of the tweeter with painter's tape and held it in place on the sail panel while applying the first layer of bondo-glass. I pushed the tweeter out after 2 layers had dried.










I did this so it will match with the pillars.




























The tweeters make a big difference...it is amazing how just filling those top octaves enhances the sound compared to a full-range driver.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Those Founteks are very well integrated into your pillars. Nice job. I'm to the point where I'm gonna have to add some tweeters to mine. The top end just isn't there like I'd prefer. Where did you end up low passing the FR88's?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks! I still need to make up some grilles for the pillars.
I haven't yet set a LP filter on the Founteks; they still play full-range, which at least is 200Hz-up for now. I just threw the tweets on some caps, so 6dB HP from around 8kHz on them, and I reset the 10kHz EQ to zero as a result.

I may end up just using coils on the Founteks, not sure yet. Please keep me posted on your findings with the Founteks if you beat me to it.
I'd like to get some other drivers that may fit in the pillars for comparison, maybe a HAT L3 and one of the Tand Band widebanders.




fish said:


> Those Founteks are very well integrated into your pillars. Nice job. I'm to the point where I'm gonna have to add some tweeters to mine. The top end just isn't there like I'd prefer. Where did you end up low passing the FR88's?


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

jsun_g said:


> Thanks! I still need to make up some grilles for the pillars.
> I haven't yet set a LP filter on the Founteks; they still play full-range, which at least is 200Hz-up for now. I just threw the tweets on some caps, so 6dB HP from around 8kHz on them, and I reset the 10kHz EQ to zero as a result.
> 
> I may end up just using coils on the Founteks, not sure yet. Please keep me posted on your findings with the Founteks if you beat me to it.
> I'd like to get some other drivers that may fit in the pillars for comparison, maybe a HAT L3 and one of the Tand Band widebanders.


One driver you might take a look at which I got in a hurry & ordered one instead of two is the Faital Pro 3FE20. Sorry I can't give you a link, my copy/paste isn't working. A few reasons I want to try it is it has just about the same dimensions as the FR88's, except it has a square flange which protrudes an extra 10mm (IIRC) more than the FR88's. It also has a 91db sensitivity! Roughly about 6-7dbs higher than your average 3" widebander. I'm pretty excited about that. The 3FE20 also has a paper cone, which I want to see if I like that sound any better than metal cones.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks for the info on that driver, I'll check it out. I am also looking to compare a paper cone driver to the Founteks. Looks like the Faital Pro won't be much of a ding to the wallet, either.



fish said:


> One driver you might take a look at which I got in a hurry & ordered one instead of two is the Faital Pro 3FE20. Sorry I can't give you a link, my copy/paste isn't working. A few reasons I want to try it is it has just about the same dimensions as the FR88's, except it has a square flange which protrudes an extra 10mm (IIRC) more than the FR88's. It also has a 91db sensitivity! Roughly about 6-7dbs higher than your average 3" widebander. I'm pretty excited about that. The 3FE20 also has a paper cone, which I want to see if I like that sound any better than metal cones.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

No pics today, just some notes.

I am learning new things as I get more accustomed to having full-range drivers in the A-pillars. The cavity/enclosure they are playing into has a LOT to do with peaks and coloration in the sound, especially with a driver like the Fountek FR88EX, which has a very thin/fragile cone. Sound treatments inside the cavity and a very "dead" mounting baffle are a must. Giving the driver enough airspace to "breathe" is also a must.

I did some tuning (though with my HU, not 360.2 yet) tonight and found a couple tracks to be extremely useful in detecting issues with the A-pillar setup: Fiona Apple's "The First Taste" and especially "9 Crimes" by Damien Rice. I made some changes via EQ and raised the LP xover of my Peerless SLS (it was too low previously), and then played some other tracks I am more familiar with (Blink 182 and Peter Gabriel), and they sounded MUCH better. Ultimately I'd like to solve these response problems mechanically (to the extent possible) instead of resorting to EQ, so a bit more experimentation is needed. In all, I'm pretty stoked about the sound right now.


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## alachua (Jun 30, 2008)

Wow! That driver requires a LOT more airspace than I would have expected. Madisound recommends .75 liter sealed for them. I was going to suggest Patrick Bateman's idea of using craft orbs to create an enclosure, but I doubt you would be able to find one with adequate airspace.


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

nice work here mate. Can we see a shot of the SLS's in the kicks?! 
Did you think about 8's down there?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

The FR88EX isn't using the entire space of the A-pillar, only the bottom half. So it is probably not far from .75 liter, but it is also kind of IB in that the bottom vents into the dash.
I've tried orbs and PVC pipe as tiny "experimental" enclosures for some mid drivers and in no case was I happy with the sound. Another criteria for the full-range drivers in the A-pillars is I wanted to have them as far apart as possible for a wider soundstage. The magnet assembly of the FR88EX is maybe a couple mm from touching the metal pillar (there is no voice coil venting out the bottom of the magnet so this was not a concern).



alachua said:


> Wow! That driver requires a LOT more airspace than I would have expected. Madisound recommends .75 liter sealed for them. I was going to suggest Patrick Bateman's idea of using craft orbs to create an enclosure, but I doubt you would be able to find one with adequate airspace.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Sure, let me get a couple pics up over the weekend. I plan to re-do the kickpods to make them more "dead" and re-upholster them.

I thought of doinig 8's in the kicks but it just wouldn't be practical due to space requirements. I like to use a proper enclosure for the midbass...doing some sort of aperiodic vent into the car frame may be a possibility with 8's but I haven't given it a strong consideration because "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" 




sydmonster said:


> nice work here mate. Can we see a shot of the SLS's in the kicks?!
> Did you think about 8's down there?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Quick update...
After trying the Vifa TG9FD10-04 full-range (https://www.madisound.com/store/pro...=1616&osCsid=fe9cb65c5a74f1b3ffc0d6b079747d2a)
which basically is the 4-ohm / glass-fibre variant of the driver reviewed here:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...er-full-range-drivers-center-channel-use.html
I just may be replacing the Founteks.
There are still a couple resonances in the A-pillar cavities (I thought swapping speakers would help, but no avail), but these Vifas can dig a little deeper than the Founteks. They don't have the top-end extension, but I can bring my tweeters down to make up lost ground if needed.

This would make my front stage entirely Vifa/Peerless (Tymphany). Will be getting some pics up later this weekend.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

So in this past week I messed around with acoustic treatments for the A-pillar area, experimented with the Vifa full-range drivers versus the Founteks, made the "bridge" piece between the amp rack and sub box, and strengthened & re-upholstered the passenger's side kickpod.

Pics coming...


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Here is the old/carpeted passenger side kickpod. Driver's side isn't done yet.










Re-done version. I will eventually get black floor mats.










Bridge piece and amp end caps in. There is one RCA cable snuck around because I have a "Y" splitter going thru the amp rack for my 360.2's mono sub out...I will be using that later when I get the 360.2 setup and RCA "snake" will be no more.










Comparing the Fountek and Vifa drivers. The Vifa's cone is about 3/8" diameter larger. Both are about the same depth. The Vifa requires a larger mount due to its square-ish frame. I made some adapters quick so I could set them up on the A-pillar pods I was using with the Founteks.




























Subjectively, the Vifas dig a little deeper than the Founteks and can handle crescendos in music a bit better. But the Founteks have more top end extension and better off-axis response in the top end. Since I have tweeters at my disposal, I may just as well go with the Vifa full-range drivers. As I was breaking in the Vifas, they became louder it seemed...I had to turn my amp gains down compared to where I had them set with the Founteks. The Vifas are 4-ohm versus the 8-ohm Founteks, but my amps produce very little additional power into 2 ohm (4 ohm bridged) than 4 ohm (8 ohm bridged).


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

I did some acoustic treatments on the A-pillar areas. I used 5 things at my disposal: 1/2" thick acoustic foam, Dynamat Extreme, polyester fiberfill, rubberized foam strips, and rubber grommets.

At it is, the lower part of the A-pillar "pod" probably weighs in around 3-4 pounds without a speaker in it and is pretty dead. The problems arise IMHO from the cavity the drivers are playing into. The bottom part of the pillar cover I discovered vents into a semi-enclosed area (enclosed with formed rubber) on the ends of the dash, under the factory tweeter. I filled that cavity with polyester fiberfill and added some Dynamat along the metal pillar area (I could hear resonances/ringing of the metal previously when placing my ear close to the pillar outside the car). I also added acoustic foam on top of the Dynamat and a bit inside of the ends of the dash. I loosely put some polyester fiber-fill behind the drivers too. Finally, I used rubber grommets where I screwed the L-bracket at the top of the pod to the metal pillar to minimize vibrations, and sealed off gap at the top (between the pod and the pillar) with Dyanamat.

Subjectively, this helped the response. When I tap on the driver, it has a lower resonance, and it helped smooth out the response in the upper midrange and treble. There are still a couple peaks in the lower midrange I need to take care of, which may be out of the scope of acoustic treatments due to their longer pathlengths. I might have to do some EQ to solve that.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Subjectively, after the treatment, the opening piano in 9 Crimes by Damien Rice sounds more full-bodied and less like...well...MIDI tones! There is something that creaks briefly in a few places in that song (maybe a chair)? I can hear that pretty clearly 7 times during the song.


Some treatment pics.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

That looks really clean Jason. Really thorough on the deadening of your pillars. I think I'm gonna have to go back & apply some treatments on mine. You gave me some ideas.

I'm gonna have to look at those Vifa's a little closer. You can definately tell they have more cone area than the Fountek's.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks! There's definitely a lot of things that can be done with the A-pillar area.

One thing about the Vifas...their frame is plastic. Need to be very careful when mounting them and make sure the mounting surface is flat & use very little foam/sealant between the flange and the mounting baffle...the plastic flexes easily and can cause the voice coil to rub if flexed too much.

Are you planning to post a build log? You've got some interesting equipment I am looking forward to seeing.




fish said:


> That looks really clean Jason. Really thorough on the deadening of your pillars. I think I'm gonna have to go back & apply some treatments on mine. You gave me some ideas.
> 
> I'm gonna have to look at those Vifa's a little closer. You can definately tell they have more cone area than the Fountek's.


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## vinicius costa (Jun 13, 2010)

jsun_g said:


> The rectangular cutout is where the power distros will eventually go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Hello friend, I know not of this tissue, which appears to be carbon fiber, I am Brazilian, and here in Brazil is very hard to find, I know the name in order to search for aqui.Obrigado and beautiful project.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Hello, and thank you. It is Neffy Wrap, Neffywrap.com, Home of the Original Neffy Carbon Fiber Wrap
They offer international shipping, and they do ship to Brazil.




vinicius costa said:


> Hello friend, I know not of this tissue, which appears to be carbon fiber, I am Brazilian, and here in Brazil is very hard to find, I know the name in order to search for aqui.Obrigado and beautiful project.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

jsun_g said:


> Thanks! There's definitely a lot of things that can be done with the A-pillar area.
> 
> One thing about the Vifas...their frame is plastic. Need to be very careful when mounting them and make sure the mounting surface is flat & use very little foam/sealant between the flange and the mounting baffle...the plastic flexes easily and can cause the voice coil to rub if flexed too much.
> 
> Are you planning to post a build log? You've got some interesting equipment I am looking forward to seeing.


The a-pillars were done last summer by a shop down in Norman. I've never tried FG before & don't have the space to do it (apartment), though I'd like to once I buy a house. So for now I have to find people around locally that have FG skills to accomodate me. Unfortunately that's how it is. 

Oh yeah, nice kicks too. Sorry I didn't go back in this thread or your previous to check, but do you have anything pictured on your kicks' preparation?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Yep, first page here has some construction pix:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/57706-my-ride-2004-tsx.html



fish said:


> The a-pillars were done last summer by a shop down in Norman. I've never tried FG before & don't have the space to do it (apartment), though I'd like to once I buy a house. So for now I have to find people around locally that have FG skills to accomodate me. Unfortunately that's how it is.
> 
> Oh yeah, nice kicks too. Sorry I didn't go back in this thread or your previous to check, but do you have anything pictured on your kicks' preparation?


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## CraigE (Jun 10, 2008)

Jason Nice Job !:thumbsup:
I just installed the Peerless SLS 6.5" in stock lower door locations, and am really impressed.
What X-over points are you using on them ?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks!
The SLS 6.5's are beasts. I am currently using them from 50Hz-200Hz (12dB/oct on HP and 24dB/oct on LP). I was running them from 200-down before I had my subs in (only using the amp's subsonic filter) and they just would NOT bottom out. I never tried/heard them IB in a door though...glad they seem to be working out for you.



CraigE said:


> Jason Nice Job !:thumbsup:
> I just installed the Peerless SLS 6.5" in stock lower door locations, and am really impressed.
> What X-over points are you using on them ?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

How are you liking the MS-8 BTW? I have one on order but it won't be in for ~3 months.
I've got a 360.2 that I used before but right now running processor-less (except for what little DSP the HU provides). It's sounding good so I want to be very careful I don't take a step backward.


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## vinicius costa (Jun 13, 2010)

jsun_g said:


> Hello, and thank you. It is Neffy Wrap, Neffywrap.com, Home of the Original Neffy Carbon Fiber Wrap
> They offer international shipping, and they do ship to Brazil.


Jsun_g, thanks for the info, I'll look here, and once again, congratulations, great project.


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## BlackAccord (Aug 4, 2010)

Great install and good pictures. Could you please advise how did you (throught where) pull the power cables into the salon from the engine bay?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

In my car, there was an opening above the dead pedal on the driver's side, near a big rubber seal where some other wires go through. It had a grommet; when I removed the grommet, the hole was just big enough to accomodate 1/0ga. wire and a grommet of my own for the wire. Then I just put silicone where the wire met the grommet for a tight seal.



BlackAccord said:


> Great install and good pictures. Could you please advise how did you (throught where) pull the power cables into the salon from the engine bay?


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

Glad I revisited this install! nice work, spesh the work for the a pillar mid!


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

hmm... I did post, right above this too. dang...


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## max martan (Aug 10, 2010)

If u think you will regret it then dont do it. if you think you wont you will just dont do it until u find a name u just absoulutly love


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## rjorge (Feb 12, 2008)

I was looking at the picture showing the backside of the A-pillars and notice that you may have forgotten to put a 45 chamfer where the vifa's are mounted, which will allow the driver to "breath" better. What do you think about the Fountek as midrangers? say 350-5k ? I am considering getting them for my A-pillars on-axis.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Nope, the chamfer is there.

I like the Founteks a lot. They are a little "edgy" but that just brings out the emotion in songs a bit more IMHO. If you are using on-axis, you might experiment with EQ tweaking in the top end and using them without tweeters.




rjorge said:


> I was looking at the picture showing the backside of the A-pillars and notice that you may have forgotten to put a 45 chamfer where the vifa's are mounted, which will allow the driver to "breath" better. What do you think about the Fountek as midrangers? say 350-5k ? I am considering getting them for my A-pillars on-axis.


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## bmwproboi05 (May 3, 2009)

still settleing down?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Yeah...
Was living in a hotel for 5 weeks. We closed on the house 2 weeks before we moved into it. In the meantime, we were doing remodeling on the empty house after work and on the weekends. I was exhausted. Still doing a lot of work on the house and unpacking now that I'm moved in. The MS-8 arrived and all I can do for now is stare at the box . Looking forward to trying some new things on the build, but no time for it at the moment...need to finish the other half of the hardwood floors first.

How is your build coming along?


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## bmwproboi05 (May 3, 2009)

lol. man im still waittin on my processor 


my build sooo far..... has gone ok still in template modish.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-member-build-logs/89178-2006-pwp-tsx-build.html

making the holes for the powerwire for the amp needs to be moved in a bit. quit a pain to get them into the terminal....


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Back from the dead.

Trying out an old school Canton 3-way set. I like the 6.5 midbass. Using it in my KP's now but needs a larger box or aperiodic/IB.










Making a (different looking) sub grille. With a baby on the way, I couldn't hold off on this any longer since my previous grille was accidentally crushed.
I cut and buffed out aluminum slats which are counter-sunk into channels I routed into the wood piece.










Here you can see the aluminum in the channel - it press-fits into place but I will bond them with something.










Grille test fit (top side up).









Amp rack test fit. I decided to swap amps and mount them on aluminum rods to aid in cooling. Amps don't like heat and it has been over 100 degrees outside way too many times this summer.










Hopefully I'll be able to get this change finished soon. 10 hours in the garage in this heat ain't fun!


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Are those mids 3"? Will they drop right in where the Vifa's are?


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

fish said:


> Are those mids 3"? Will they drop right in where the Vifa's are?


Unfortunately, no. They are 4" and the mounting flange is really wide, so they are going to be really hard to get into the pillars. Not sure what I am going to do at the moment but will definitely be trying them out.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

good stuff. great craftsmanship you have talent friend, i do suggest avoiding that fabric you used for the A pillar pods though, i had a fabric EXACTLY like that that i tried to use, to much strech, creates to many divits. if you need flex, I use a spandex or something. but for those pods, some thicker felt would of been perfect, soaked in resin, and 1 or 2 layes of fiberglass those would be very strong pods.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

eviling said:


> good stuff. great craftsmanship you have talent friend, i do suggest avoiding that fabric you used for the A pillar pods though, i had a fabric EXACTLY like that that i tried to use, to much strech, creates to many divits. if you need flex, I use a spandex or something. but for those pods, some thicker felt would of been perfect, soaked in resin, and 1 or 2 layes of fiberglass those would be very strong pods.


Thanks. Yeah that Neffy Wrap doesn't do well in small places with curves/crevices. I busted my butt trying to get it to look decent. The pods are plenty strong, absolutely no resonance. Next time I'll try a different finish on the pods that'll work better...flocking perhaps?


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

UPdATE? Any pics of the grill? I bought a prefab that didn't really fit, would love to steal your idea if it came out good.


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## jsun_g (Jun 12, 2008)

Sorry, I didn't take pix of the completed grille. You can visualize it with the black Neffy wrap on the wooden part. You can't see the ball-n-socket connectors in the pix above, but there are 2 ball-n-socket pairs in the middle which hold the grille down on top of the subs. No problems yet...save for any small items floating around on the trunk floor (I take care not to have that).


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## Palos (Feb 12, 2010)

Nice work, looking forward to more pics!


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