# Home sub for $200



## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

I have a couple of older klipsch ksw12 sub's. One works and one I am working on to see. 

I was going to buy a plate amp from parts express and realize there are some decent new complete sub's for $200 .

I see klipsch has sub-12hg for $200

And :

Bic formula f12 right at 200
Bic venturi v1220 less than 200

Dayton sub 1200 $149
Dayton sub1509. $199


Now the bid and the klipsch both have bash amp and longer warranty. 

I'm itching to buy today.


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## plushterry (Jan 22, 2015)

It's not the same as building your own :blush:


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

I don't have time to make fugly boxes and it cost more since I have zero gear now


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

get the bigger Dayton 15 one, its a good driver in an ok box with a good amp and it will go deeper than the rest imo.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

I have a Dayton 12" and it sucks massive elephant "situation" and I wish I could just sell it for my money back. Hmmph.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Lycancatt said:


> get the bigger Dayton 15 one, its a good driver in an ok box with a good amp and it will go deeper than the rest imo.


And when it craps out I could make it better. Or I could put better sub in it. 

I've never owned a 15 before


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

sirbOOm said:


> I have a Dayton 12" and it sucks massive elephant "situation" and I wish I could just sell it for my money back. Hmmph.


Oh situation!!!

See now I want to steer clear of them again. 

At least the klipsch is "supposed" to be better. 

Wouldn't pay $500 for one but $200 yeah. I already have some klipsch gear


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

I swear my Dayton skips beats in music. It is not nearly as accurate or loud or nice to listen to as my KEF subwoofer which is a 10" with passive radiator on like less than half the power in a teeny tiny little fancy roundish alien looking enclosure. I hate it. But, hey... maybe you'll have a different experience. For pre-made/available subs, I like Polk for value.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Polk 505 is also in the mix


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

Cadence CSX12 MKII. Little more, little better.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Is that a all in one powered sub?


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

Yup. Its a beast, and Cadence has been awesome for customer service. The way I've set up my system led to some issues with the "auto on" feature, and during quiet passages the sub would switch off. 

They reworked and sent me an entirely new board, no cost.

Review is here: Review: Cadence CSX-12 Mark II Subwoofer | Sound & Vision

Tons more reviews if you search. I came from a Klipsch, to a Velodyne, Paradigm Seismic 10 to this. The Seismic was slightly clearer for sure, but it also cost 2.5x more. This is the best value sub I've found. I've listened to the Daytons and frankly I found them to be crap. They get loud and are priced nicely, but clarity isn't great at all.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

Wow. This cadence sounds perfect for me. 70+ lbs and all I am reading is great. 

I think it can't be beat for the money


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

Keep in mind when it was reviewed it was at an MSRP of $399, now Cadence has dropped it $100. 

That review though nice shows my age. I tried watching the FD2 movie and scene he described, and to get the volume to have the effect he describes is retarded. I mean I like a nice loud movie but I had my whole system 20% past what I consider max to get a kick in the pants he's describing which is too loud to watch talking passages. Its like everyone is yelling. Either that or he cranks the sub up artificially over the mains which to I also find not fun to watch. Maybe I'm just getting old.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

ryankenn said:


> Keep in mind when it was reviewed it was at an MSRP of $399, now Cadence has dropped it $100.
> 
> That review though nice shows my age. I tried watching the FD2 movie and scene he described, and to get the volume to have the effect he describes is retarded. I mean I like a nice loud movie but I had my whole system 20% past what I consider max to get a kick in the pants he's describing which is too loud to watch talking passages. Its like everyone is yelling. Either that or he cranks the sub up artificially over the mains which to I also find not fun to watch. Maybe I'm just getting old.


I dont have it set up for movies. I just want some more low in my music. 

Im not expected the best for the price but everything else I have looked at is basic for the same price. this is the only sub I have found that comes close to being decent. 

I looked at best buy for kicks at their klipsch sub..I forget what 12 it was. felt like it was half the weight of the two old versions I have now, maybe the box itself is thin. the plate amp on it looked of worse quality than I have now. 

I am basically willing to buy the cadence for the specs alone cause its better than all the 12's I have been researching and I have always liked Cadence. 

other option is to make the 2 I have into beasts but then the price will go up. its easier for me to sell them as I paid less than $1 for both. yes I said less than $1


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## talclipse (Apr 10, 2015)

Dont buy the cadence CSX12!!!!!

I got mine last night and its worse then my HTIB 10" Onkyo. 

I get nothing more then distortion and port noise along with the sub bottoming out and completely losing control if I take the vol past half way.

Im hoping the ebay seller will take it back.i couldn't even watch a movie it was so bad.


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

That's why you buy it from Cadence and not an Ebay seller who obviously sold who you a blown sub.


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## talclipse (Apr 10, 2015)

Naw I dont think its a blown sub.it was brand new in Two sealed boxes.


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## talclipse (Apr 10, 2015)

Ive been into car audio for 20 years,home audio off and on during that time.and honestly ive heard pc subs in plastic boxes put out more bass then this big ole pos.

The sub can't even handle its own amp at half vovol.and forget about even using the "bass boost" knob.they should rename that knob to "send your sub flying thur the wall and your amp on fire knob"


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

talclipse said:


> Ive been into car audio for 20 years,home audio off and on during that time.and honestly ive heard pc subs in plastic boxes put out more bass then this big ole pos.
> 
> The sub can't even handle its own amp at half vovol.and forget about even using the "bass boost" knob.they should rename that knob to "send your sub flying thur the wall and your amp on fire knob"


Something is wrong with the sub, the install or the user. I've owned it for 4 years without issue. Anyone who would even look at the bass boost, well don't look at it.

And I can't say I even know where my gain is set, it's not a knob you turn up to a spot for no reason, just like a car the system should be at volume and the sub turned up to fill. I mean I'm sure I could distort this thing if I tried but it would be so out of whack with the front stage it wouldn't sound right.

What movie and which section was it worst? I'd love to try it here.


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

Double boxed is how its shipped, did you pay less than Cadence sells it for direct?


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## talclipse (Apr 10, 2015)

ryankenn said:


> Double boxed is how its shipped, did you pay less than Cadence sells it for direct?



No $300 shipped. I had some ebay bucks saved up that I used on it.

The ebay seller im prety sure is a authorized dealer.

I wrote them last night but haven't heard anything yet.there just isn't an easy way out of this situation. Since its so heavy, im just an avg joe,and the seller is in Ca while im in TN,shipping is going to be crazy expensive. 

I logged hours and hours of research into picking this sub.i started to go with the BIC pl200,but now after hearing this one thats supposed to be a dang good sub,idk if I should even bother with the cheaper ones.

I have a 10" infinity sub for car audio that sounds better WITHOUT A BOX!


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## talclipse (Apr 10, 2015)

settings on the sub it self are.
vol between 1/4-1/2 any higher and it cant handle it.
have the lpf on
bass boost off
cross over at 70hz any lower and it gets into trouble
phase at default. 

The reciver(onkyo tx nr616)
sub lvl at 0
no double bass
Lpf set to 90 any higher and it gets into trouble
all of the crossovers are set to 0 except I think its 20hz its set to -10

If I take the vol past 40 on the receiver the sub is nothing but vent noise and distortion.

Music wasnt nearly as bad but sucks.
watching Exodus 3d blu ray was unbareable solely cause of the sub.

It either had no bass at all or complete Garbage output.aoutput.a rumble in the movie turned into the sub going heywire and spewing the most obnoxious sounds that ive ever heard from a sub in my life.

As u can see from my settings im completely babying the sub.in no way can it be "over played" with these settings.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Watching Exodus on any H/T setup is unbearable. That was such a terrible movie.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

What is your budget? and are you using this with an AVR?


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## GroundLoop (Feb 11, 2015)

I have the Klipsch sub-12hg and it is well worth it for $200.


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## KingDiamond (Apr 4, 2008)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008FSTU4G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I got this one after my aging Definitive Technology took a dump. It sounds great. Tight, low bass that blends in nicely with the rest of the system.


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

talclipse said:


> settings on the sub it self are.
> vol between 1/4-1/2 any higher and it cant handle it.
> have the lpf on
> bass boost off
> ...


Unless you are being dramatic for effect, its pretty obvious that there is something wrong with the one you have. I would call Cadence direct. 

You are also a little fixated with where the gain control is set. I doubt I've ever had mine past 1/2 either. The sub is so ridiculously loud in the room I have at that level, and overwhelms my front stage easily. I think I spend 90% of the time between 1/4 and 1/2 and at -20 to -18 on my Onkyo that is too loud to watch a 2 hour movie at.

I'm download Exodus now to see what its like tonight or tomorrow.


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

As an aside ( but you did say its sucking on music too ) the only Exodus release right now is Web-DL, and that doesn't have the best sound mixing on it. You have to wait until a Blu-ray release.

Also, is this the guy? 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CADENCE...422?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5416fe355e

Because then you are up the creek, he's not an authorized reseller, hence the 1 year warranty through him MSW. I'll say its just a bad unit.


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

Well, an hour and 20 mins in, and three things:

A) This movie blows
B) There is next to no high demand low frequency scenes
C) Sub is working fine just below 1/2 on the gain, and stupid loud on my main. This is a threshold I don't know if I've ever watched a movie.

The only scene that had any low frequency demands thus far was the grainery explosion at an hour and 17mins. I played it back a few times, no issues.

Tomorrow when my family is out, I'm going to go back and lambaste it at that point.

I'm also at 0db on the sub, all crap processing is off, crossed over at 80Hz in the receiver, more like 60 Hz on the sub.


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

If i had 200, i would look into 2 dayton sub 1000's


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## talclipse (Apr 10, 2015)

Well I was wrong.

After many hours rearranging the room,many sub crawls and all sorts of setting adjustments.i got it to sounding decent.still sounds alot better at different locations then where we sit but thats really the best I can do.

im still a bit disappointed as a whole.

We didnt need the latest and greatest,and the 10 onkyo did a good job outside of really loud scenes when the dang thing would over extend and pop And have horrible vent noise. 

No joke where I had the cadence at first was a down grade from the onkyo. 

Now I can honestly say it fills the room up nicely.but those first, few days made me wanna put my fist through the dang thing.


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## talclipse (Apr 10, 2015)

And ryankenn.i haven't yet gotten around to finish Exodus.i have it on blu ray 3d.

a few mins in a huge battle breaks out and I sware the movie cuts the center channel completely out.you see all these fight scenes and horses running around yet all you hear is the music Track.

that added to such a frustrating night.along with my nrtx616 starting to glitch and omg I about blew my top.


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## JAX (Jun 2, 2006)

forgot all about this....


I was going to get the BIC PL200 but I ended up getting a seperate BASH 300 watt amp from Parts express. I installed a JBL GTO 12 in it and music sounds great. Havnt watched a movie.

I wasnt going to have tv in there but I bought a nice Samsung DLP for $20 and put new bulb in it and bam nice tv


I still have the other klipsch 12 and box with working amp. Next step I guess will be to get another bash amp and fix it up too


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Unless you sit right up against the back wall, and even then, 2 subs is the way to go for uniform bass at all seats.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Hoptologist said:


> Unless you sit right up against the back wall, and even then, 2 subs is the way to go for uniform bass at all seats.


depends on the room, imho.

some rooms have a natural, wide hot spot right where you normally sit, and in others you have to use a second sub to bring some bass to you.

many people will never know what a second sub can do for their listening experience, (and for that matter, multiple subs) based on a belief that a system either sounds good or it doesn't, and adding anything to a setup is "frankenstein" audio, better left to those crazy diy guys who have concrete tunnels built into the hallways for bass horn nonsense...


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

cajunner said:


> depends on the room, imho.
> 
> some rooms have a natural, wide hot spot right where you normally sit, and in others you have to use a second sub to bring some bass to you.
> 
> many people will never know what a second sub can do for their listening experience, (and for that matter, multiple subs) based on a belief that a system either sounds good or it doesn't, and adding anything to a setup is "frankenstein" audio, better left to those crazy diy guys who have concrete tunnels built into the hallways for bass horn nonsense...


Yeah, some people get stuck in a closed-off, mental roadblock where they lose the ability or foresight to improve upon and would rather just start over. 

Probably happens quite often on here when people make threads wanting to change their system/speakers because they don't think it sounds good, and they are advised to invest in a DSP. Some of them must think, how will adding a DSP make my system sound good when the source of my aversion is the speakers themselves?

Happens all the time on Property Brothers on HGTV. They show their clients a series of homes prime for renovation, but the buyers are unable to see beyond that which is directly in front of them and complain, "we can't imagine ourselves living here." They exhibit difficulty grasping the potential. Of course, once it's all fixed up and polished, they couldn't be happier.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

I am trying to grasp how a single 12 can handle movies listening at reference. 

For serious ULF content, give Edge of Tomorrow a look.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

cubdenno said:


> I am trying to grasp how a single 12 can handle movies listening at reference.
> 
> For serious ULF content, give Edge of Tomorrow a look.


It can't, in a large-ish room. But one SVS PB12-Plus in an office or bedroom would be pretty blissful IMO. I had an SVS PB10-NSD in a bedroom setup a few years back... that was real fun. Never measured how loud I played it though. Good movie, that Edge of Tomorrow.


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## ryankenn (Mar 15, 2014)

talclipse said:


> And ryankenn.i haven't yet gotten around to finish Exodus.i have it on blu ray 3d.
> 
> a few mins in a huge battle breaks out and I sware the movie cuts the center channel completely out.you see all these fight scenes and horses running around yet all you hear is the music Track.
> 
> that added to such a frustrating night.along with my nrtx616 starting to glitch and omg I about blew my top.


I have a feeling its the rip, not the movie, as mine did the same and I have never heard that before.

I did spend about an hour with it on Sunday ( you hadn't posted so I didn't want to just waste breath ) really giving it some excersise. 

I have to say its still shining. I watched Exodus, the opening scene of Star Trek (2009), Master and Commander's opening scene, and Jurrasic Park's select scenes. All were fantastic. I went to a level on my Onkyo I've not been in before, which was +5.0 dB, which is close to maximum. At that level my front stage was starting to get so loud it was actually hard for the sub to keep pace, and I got it close to maximum on the gain. I never had a hint of port noise, but on very select scene, with my ear at the woofer, I could get it to "fluff". I have a feeling its more the interaction of the surround with the grill cloth, but it was audible at a distance of 1-2'. Further back and everything is so loud its impossible to tell. This was a level I couldn't watch a movie at.

Music I found some other points of weakness. All rock, all jazz, all percussive heavy is fine, at any volume. R&B, Trance etc, rap was all good to great, but select songs I could get it to disagree. Again, never port noise, but Awolnation - Sail, I could get a pretty decent "fluffing" from the sub, again, not audible at distance, but louder than with the movies. This was at +5.0dB on the receiver (which is 85% of maximum ish ) and close to maxed on the sub. It started to run out of steam at that point.

Mine is in a short basement (7 foot ceiling) and almost in a corner. The walls are 5/8", the ceiling is on tracks and the walls and ceiling have Roxul Safe'n'sound and I think that really helps trap it down there.

It was a fun time, but my ears were ringing for a few hours after that.


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