# Alternator whine from the depths of HELL!



## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Iv been fighting this since my last rebuild. During that I went active using a bit ten on a jl hd 600/4.
I have ruled out the bit ten by completely by passing that. With NO RCAs connected to the amp and the deck off it's still there. And deck off I mean unpowered and remote coming straight from battery. I ran a power wire out side the car to battery still there. Ran a ground outside the car still there. Ran remote straight to the battery both those times Still there. I made bigger grounds for the engine and thought where I put them could be causing it but I moved all grounds back to factory locations. I ran a ground from the case of alt to negative on the battery too no change. I'm using kunkonepts basic battery terminals But swapped that out no change. The absolute only way to get rid of the noise is to disconnect the alt from the system. I also swapped a brand new alternator from the dealership still there on top of swapping in a new battery. Any ideas would be greatly helpful this is beyond annoying. Swapped with a brand new hd 600/4 as well 


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Redliner99 said:


> With NO RCAs connected to the amp and the deck off it's still there.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you have an extra cable or wire run but not connected that might be summing the noise? I had alt whine from hell one time with no rca's hooked to the amp and headunit turned off and it turned out to be a cheap Rat Shack cable I had wrapped around a wiring bundle behind the dash to get it out of the way and it wasn't hooked to anything. A buddy of mine on this forum diagnosed the problem over the phone and told me to remove the unused cable. Noise gone after that.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

I have a decent amount of wiring bundled for all the speakers and what not. But all the same wiring was there previously. Non of which is unconnected though. I assume that would show when I ran wires outside the car?


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> Iv been fighting this since my last rebuild. During that I went active using a bit ten on a jl hd 600/4.
> I have ruled out the bit ten by completely by passing that. With NO RCAs connected to the amp and the deck off it's still there. I ran a power wire out side the car to battery still there. Ran a ground outside the car still there. Ran remote straight to the battery both those times Still there. I made bigger grounds for the engine and thought where I put them could be causing it but I moved all grounds back to factory locations. I'm using kunkonepts basic battery terminals I don't know if that could be causing it. Any ideas would be greatly helpful this is beyond annoying.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It sounds like it would have to be amp related... Do you happen to have another amp to swap in and test that theory?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> It sounds like it would have to be amp related... Do you happen to have another amp to swap in and test that theory?




Swapped for a brand new JL hd 600/4


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> Swapped for a brand new JL hd 600/4
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cool. Do you have another speaker/tweeter you can connect close to the amp to see if it has anything to do with the speaker wires running through the car (though it isn't likely that the speaker wire is picking up the whine...)??


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> Cool. Do you have another speaker/tweeter you can connect close to the amp to see if it has anything to do with the speaker wires running through the car (though it isn't likely that the speaker wire is picking up the whine...)??




I'll have to see if I can borrow one from a friend. A suggestion from another member was to unhook each speaker at a time and see if it goes away. No change there 


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Its usually a ground. Hows your alt grounded to the chassis? Just examine each component individually and you'll trace it down

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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> I'll have to see if I can borrow one from a friend. A suggestion from another member was to unhook each speaker at a time and see if it goes away. No change there
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guess the good thing is, with all of the trouble shooting you've done, that you've narrowed it down to the amp --> speaker wire --> speakers... 

I keep a couple factory take-offs around for this kind of testing. 

Do you know if the whine is in all channels?


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## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

Make sure the amp isn't getting grounded out by the chassis of the amp. Just throwing something out there that wasn't mentioned yet.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Its usually a ground. Hows your alt grounded to the chassis? Just examine each component individually and you'll trace it down
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk




The alt it attached to the block and the block is grounded to the body. I ran a ground from the alt to the battery just to test. No change 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> I guess the good thing is, with all of the trouble shooting you've done, that you've narrowed it down to the amp --> speaker wire --> speakers...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I changed out the amp for another HD 600/4 right out of the box no change. I can't hear it on the mids but it is on both tweeters 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

thornygravy said:


> Make sure the amp isn't getting grounded out by the chassis of the amp. Just throwing something out there that wasn't mentioned yet.




Good thought it's Velcroed to plastic for testing 


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> Good thought it's Velcroed to plastic for testing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He means does the ground wire have any ends that are touching the chassis and not just the ground section. 

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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Jscoyne2 said:


> He means does the ground wire have any ends that are touching the chassis and not just the ground section.
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk



No the wire I used to test outside the car is brand new 



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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

Red,when you crack this thing please report back and reveal how you solved it.I feel your pain as I'm trying to crack a 1 1/2 year riddle on my Sentra HU....!!


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Do you have twisted RCA or shielded RCA? JL uses differential balanced RCA inputs, which work better at rejecting noise with twisted RCA. It’s possible that a shielded RCA could introduce a ground loop.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QOagVDZLQnA


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

V8toilet said:


> Do you have twisted RCA or shielded RCA? JL uses differential balanced RCA inputs, which work better at rejecting noise with twisted RCA. It’s possible that a shielded RCA could introduce a ground loop.
> 
> 
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QOagVDZLQnA




It does it even with no RCAs connected 


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Wait. With the deck off. The alternator whine is still there? If your deck is off. Then no amps are on and alt whine should be impossible. 

When you say alt whine. Are you talking about actual belt noise?

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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Wait. With the deck off. The alternator whine is still there? If your deck is off. Then no amps are on and alt whine should be impossible.
> 
> When you say alt whine. Are you talking about actual belt noise?
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk




Yes deck off but remote connected straight to the battery so the amp is still on. 


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> Yes deck off but remote connected straight to the battery so the amp is still on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you sure it coming from the speakers and you're not just hearing a belt whine?

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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Are you sure it coming from the speakers and you're not just hearing a belt whine?
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk




Yes I have been working on cars for years


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Yeah, I agree with Jscoyne2 and I could be wrong but I would think alternator whine isn’t possible at all with no input connected to the amp, aka, RCA. He might be on to something in that the alternator whine noise you are hearing might actually be something else that is emanating from another place and it’s not your tweeters connected to that amplifier. 

Just speculating.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

A bad alt or a bad voltage regulator can cause noise. Is it possible to run a power wire from another vehicles alt to your battery. Disconnect the normal alt. And keep every thing else the same.

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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Jscoyne2 said:


> A bad alt or a bad voltage regulator can cause noise. Is it possible to run a power wire from another vehicles alt to your battery. Disconnect the normal alt. And keep every thing else the same.
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk




I put a brand new alternator in it from the dealer ship! I'm so stumped. I'll add that to the first post 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

JH1973 said:


> Red,when you crack this thing please report back and reveal how you solved it.I feel your pain as I'm trying to crack a 1 1/2 year riddle on my Sentra HU....!!



I'm going insane!!!!! I will for sure if I figure it out 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

V8toilet said:


> Yeah, I agree with Jscoyne2 and I could be wrong but I would think alternator whine isn’t possible at all with no input connected to the amp, aka, RCA. He might be on to something in that the alternator whine noise you are hearing might actually be something else that is emanating from another place and it’s not your tweeters connected to that amplifier.
> 
> 
> 
> Just speculating.




I thought so too but my co worker who drives with me to work hears it as well 


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## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

So you said the only way it stops is with the alternator disconnected, and you replaced the alternator. hmm

Try adding a capacitor to condition out the ripple? Hope you get it sorted.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

thornygravy said:


> So you said the only way it stops is with the alternator disconnected, and you replaced the alternator. hmm
> 
> 
> 
> Try adding a capacitor to condition out the AC ripple? Hope you get it sorted.




Yea I'm mind boggled 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Anyone else have any ideas? Gonna try to swap the amp for something completely different that isn't an hd and see what that does. Other than that I'm out of ideas 


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## JCsAudio (Jun 16, 2014)

Tell us more about the entire system? Active/passive, HU, DSP, wiring Type/brand, RCA type/brand, subwoofer amplifier, how long the grounds for the amplifiers are, if the grounds are the same size and wire type as the power wires, even the locations of the grounds for each component. Where are the amplifiers located? What do the ground connections look like? Do you have any pictures? Is one of the speaker wires grounding out on the vehicle? Are you using aftermarket speaker wire or the factory wire? Is the power and ground OFC wire and sized right for the load? Do the power wires and signal wires run in different locations and not close to each other? What if you connect an IPod or similar device directly into the amplifier input, any noise then? What about the amplifiers gains for the tweeters; are they set to amplifier clipping (not needed for tweeters in active) or enough to get the volume you need from the tweeters? Too much gain on the amplifier serving the tweeters just picks up more noise and for tweeters is not needed. Most tweeters will use less than 10 watts to keep up with a 1000 watt subwoofer and 250 watt midbass.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

I'm happy to answer all those but I have taken everything out of the equation such as dsp deck rcas. As far as what's connected but still making the noise. I'm using stinger 4ga ofc power wire from battery to amp same wire for ground. The ground is bolted to the interior rear quarter panel structure paint ground off with bolt washer etc. The amp was a brand new out of the box JL hd 600/4. I'm using stinger 12ga speaker wire through xt60 connectors to connect to my focal flax 6.5 and tweet. The noise is present on all aspects of the deck. But again the noise is there even with no RCAs connected. The gains are maybe 40%. 


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

With rca's disconnected but amp turned on the noise has to be summed from somewhere. I still say it's coming from a nearby wire. I know it will be somewhat expensive but maybe try running your ground wire directly to the battery just for the hell of it? The rear quarter might not be a good ground with the way cars are built these days. Also, is your headunit grounded to the factory harness or with the same ground as amps? You can get good quality welding cable cheap from wireandsupply.com . Have you tried hooking everything up to a battery completely outside the car to see if the noise persists? If it does by doing that there's something seriously wrong.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

I have ran a ground from the amp directly to the battery no change. I have the deck powered and grounded from direct 12v the only factory wire in the whole car that's being using for the audio is the ignition wire for the deck. Only thing I have confirmed 100% is when I unplug the alternator from charging the noise goes away 


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Have you replaced the voltage regulator? And installing a cap to smooth things out as suggested above might be worth a try.


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## SPLEclipse (Aug 17, 2012)

With the RCA's disconnected, ground the RCA input shield to the - terminal on the amp. See what happens. It should stop.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

SPLEclipse said:


> With the RCA's disconnected, ground the RCA input shield to the - terminal on the amp. See what happens. It should stop.




Can you explain this a little more?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Anyone else have any idea what the problem could be?


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Redliner99 said:


> Anyone else have any idea what the problem could be?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You’ve been trying everything man. I’m rooting for you!

Don’t no what else to recommend. I just keep checking this thread each time it’s updated to see if you finally solve it. 

Wish I had more. All I can say is keep at it...

Eventually you’ll have an epiphany or someone one will steer you right.
:idea2:

Has anyone ever experienced an alternator noise issue like Redliner99 that remedied by replacing the alternator itself?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> You’ve been trying everything man. I’m rooting for you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks man **** is driving me to madness. I put a brand new from the dealership alternator in it was not cheap and it didn't fix it. I would of been happy spending the money if it did fix it 


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I have an XD400/4 sitting here if you wanna toss it in & see what happens. It's a longshot, but if you've only tried the same model HD and nothing else, who knows? 

Err, and what are the odds that JL sent you the same amp back? Did you check serial numbers?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

rob feature said:


> I have an XD400/4 sitting here if you wanna toss it in & see what happens. It's a longshot, but if you've only tried the same model HD and nothing else, who knows?
> 
> 
> 
> Err, and what are the odds that JL sent you the same amp back? Did you check serial numbers?




I have a buddy gonna let me borrow an xd to try. And it was from the shop I bought it at. I cut the seal and put it in myself sadly. 


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## lurch (Jan 20, 2014)

Start pulling fuses, power plugs, heater, lights , etc, but nothing to do with the ecu/engine. 

The " may " point you in the right direction of which circuit is causing the whine. 
this may or may not work, but at this point it's worth a shot.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

lurch said:


> Start pulling fuses, power plugs, heater, lights , etc, but nothing to do with the ecu/engine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I will add that to the list thank you 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Well got out in the cold because this is eating at me. Swapped for 2 different amps no change. No clue where to go from here


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

T


Redliner99 said:


> Well got out in the cold because this is eating at me. Swapped for 2 different amps no change. No clue where to go from here


What happens when you plug in an RCA to headphone jack a listen to what is normally coming into the amps inputs?

If you use a similar RCA to 1/8" what happens when you play directly from a phone or iPod into the amplifier?

Those tests may give some insight.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> T
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why would you listen to what's coming into it? It makes the noise when nothing is connected to it. What insight would that give?


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

Have you tried mounting the amp at a different locations? or if the wires are long enough, place it on something outside of the car and test.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Mullings said:


> Have you tried mounting the amp at a different locations? or if the wires are long enough, place it on something outside of the car and test.




I have not I would have to pull interior to move wiring around. My previous amp was in the same location. 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Why would you listen to what's coming into it? It makes the noise when nothing is connected to it. What insight would that give?


Ishikawa fathered the ishikawa driagram, which is called a fishbone diagram.

Basically one is more successful in following a structured approach.
What I am proposing her is to finger would whether there is noise from the HU, or the noise is create different in the amp, or the noise is only happening when the HU/amp connected.

Back to ishikawa, the possible causal mechanism are tested to exonerate them or not.
The premise is that one may need to know the causal mechanism, before they can figure out a way to ameliorate that mechanism from causing a problem.

Knowing where it sounds good or not, helps to identify the problem.
I need to know the causal mechanism before I can suggest a solution, whereas you have many solutions so far, but none were solutions to you particular problem.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

I have to agree, it is usually a ground. It doesn't hurt, especially if running a system, to add an additional ground to the frame from the battery. I would also make sure that your amp, etc. is well grounded (larger ground wire than power). I would add in extra grounds one at a time until you find were the signal is splicing, but normally an extra ground wire from the battery to the frame and/ or block will take care of it. 
I have an H/O alternator which recommends a direct ground to the battery. 
Good luck.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

jackal28 said:


> I have to agree, it is usually a ground. It doesn't hurt, especially if running a system, to add an additional ground to the frame from the battery. I would also make sure that your amp, etc. is well grounded (larger ground wire than power). I would add in extra grounds one at a time until you find were the signal is splicing, but normally an extra ground wire from the battery to the frame and/ or block will take care of it.
> 
> I have an H/O alternator which recommends a direct ground to the battery.
> 
> Good luck.




The new grounds are bolted directly to the frame rail. They are 2/0. The amp ground is the same 4ga that the power is that's all jl amps accept. I also grounded the amp directly to battery no change. Also grounded the alt case directly to the battery no change 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Anyone think that the knu koncepts bassik battery terminals could be causing this?










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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

Is it possible the amp is picking up radiated noise? Build a faraday shield with some sheet metal. I that doesn't help disconnect all amp outputs except one - does it go away? reconnect one of the outputs and disconnect the last one. That might help determine if the noise is coming from one of the speaker lines.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Bizarroterl said:


> Is it possible the amp is picking up radiated noise? Build a faraday shield with some sheet metal. I that doesn't help disconnect all amp outputs except one - does it go away? reconnect one of the outputs and disconnect the last one. That might help determine if the noise is coming from one of the speaker lines.




It could be not sure how to test that though. I tested again today when I unhook the alternator all the noise is gone. I tested unhooking the speakers and it stays on all channels.


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## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/helix/accessories/cap-33


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

thornygravy said:


> https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/helix/accessories/cap-33




Although that looks like a great product stuff like that is a band aid to me. I want to find the problem not cover it up 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Although that looks like a great product stuff like that is a band aid to me. I want to find the problem not cover it up


So is the noise there with an iPod or phone going into the amp and the engine on?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Yes it's there all the time no matter the situation unless the engine is off. 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Yes it's there all the time no matter the situation unless the engine is off.


Ok Then....
Is it there when the 'HU to amp' RCAs are disconnected at the amp?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Ok Then....
> 
> Is it there when the 'HU to amp' RCAs are disconnected at the amp?




Yes I laid out the whole setup and a few small details in the first few posts 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Yes I laid out the whole setup and a few small details in the first few posts


Yes... I see it now.

If you had an extra battery, then you could hook up power and ground to that battery and see if there noise is there.
If it is not there, then that may be a clue.

If you have another car, then you could crank that car's radio up, and put it snout to snout with your car, and attach jumper cables.
If the noise magically appears on the other car, then that is a clue.

If the noise appears on the other when it gets close, but is not connected, then that is also a clue.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Yes... I see it now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I swapped my battery for a brand new one no change. might try it with the another car but if it doesn't have an amplifier who knows if it would pick it up. And even then what would that tell me??



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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> I swapped my battery for a brand new one no change. might try it with the another car but if it doesn't have an amplifier who knows if it would pick it up. And even then what would that tell me??


Well then, we know it was probably not the battery making the noise.

I was thinking of putting the old battery on the curb, and hook it up to the amp with a black-n-red set of wires. As you are trying to figure if the whine is coming through the power/ground, or coming in through the speaker wires or some other obscure path.

If there is noise on the power lines, then the second car could also be making some noise.

RF was thrown out as one way, which seems less probable... But there was also talk about HID and LED lights.

If the second car made noise with power connected, but not when disconnected then you know it is on the wires and not RF.


You other choices are an oscilloscope, and then determine where the noise is, and I am assuming that you need a choke somewhere near the alternator... But we are not sure if that choke would need to be on the negative or the positive side.

The role of the voltage regulator has been mentioned.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Well then, we know it was probably not the battery making the noise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I ran power and ground outside of the car no change I unhook the alternator and the noise goes away. HOw would you use an oscope to see where the noise is coming from? 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Sorry - I poked in the voltage regulator while you responded.




Redliner99 said:


> I ran power and ground outside of the car no change I unhook the alternator and the noise goes away...


Out, but from coming from the battery still mounted in the car?
That is different than from a second (old) battery on the curb, just powering the amp.




Redliner99 said:


> ... HOw would you use an oscope to see where the noise is coming from?


Probably in a singled ended fashion, where you probed +, -, and some work with the voltage regulator.

To start, you would see what the noise is between + and -.
And also whether any things changed it, like disconnecting the voltage regulator.

It is either coming out of the +, or it is coming out of the -, or the VR is commanding the alternator to pulse.
The pulsing is should be proprtional to the RPM and the pulley ratio and then there are the number of diode and coils. So if it is pulsing for each coil that is different than if one coil/diode is the source of the noise.
And if it is not related to RPM, then points to the VR.

But since 2 alternators were doing this, it sort of starts to point to the voltage regulator or wiring.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Sorry - I poked in the voltage regulator while you responded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The voltage regulator is built in to 98% of the
Modern alternators iv had experience with mine included. It goes up and down with revs 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

The issue is generally caused by ground loops.

And a ground loop is most often created between the ground, and the RCAs... However the RCAs were disconnected.

With the RCAs the only things that can physically create a loop are:
+
-
speakers + and speaker -
remote wire.

I think it is getting to be time to put some speaker on the seat, and the remote going from the + at the amp over into the amp (use a toggle switch on that).
And one by one by start adding things back in.
The speakers are low impedance, so maybe start with the remote.

Running the remote wire outside of the car only makes a large loop/coil, so that is not overly helpful.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> The issue is generally caused by ground loops.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




"I think it is getting to be time to put some speaker on the seat, and the remote going from the + at the amp over into the amp (use a toggle switch on that).

And one by one by start adding things back in.

The speakers are low impedance, so maybe start with the remote." Say what?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

^as in the "remote turn on" wire...^


It is either a ground loop or it is something else.

At this point we are not even sure of the mechanism, just that the alternator seems to be 'the source'.
How is the noise getting inside the amp?

Via the air?
or 
VIa wires?

This seems like step #1, and one you know how it is getting in, then we can address how to stop it getting in.


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## Shane (Oct 8, 2009)

What vehicle is this??
I had the EXACT same alternator whine issue you describe. Everything you've mentioned I've had the same thing with my 2001 Chevy Tahoe.

Are you using a stock headunit or aftermarket?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> ^as in the "remote turn on" wire...^
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I ran a remote wire from the battery directly to amp so nothing else in the audio system was on. I'm not sure what you mean by + on the amp over into to the amp 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Shane said:


> What vehicle is this??
> 
> I had the EXACT same alternator whine issue you describe. Everything you've mentioned I've had the same thing with my 2001 Chevy Tahoe.
> 
> ...




2005 Honda Pilot the headunit is completely taken out of the system. 


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## Shane (Oct 8, 2009)

Redliner99 said:


> 2005 Honda Pilot the headunit is completely taken out of the system.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is what i noticed. I was using a Alpine 149BT as my source and when I had all my amps and equipment hooked up, I had alt whine. But if I disconnected everything and just used the internal amp, then there was no alternator whine present.

But I methodically went thru everything and still had alt whine. I had three different shops look at it and nobody could figure it out.

It drove me crazy, so I ended up selling the Tahoe and have a different car now.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Shane said:


> This is what i noticed. I was using a Alpine 149BT as my source and when I had all my amps and equipment hooked up, I had alt whine. But if I disconnected everything and just used the internal amp, then there was no alternator whine present.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Internal amp? That's a drastic measure 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> I ran a remote wire from the battery directly to amp so nothing else in the audio system was on. I'm not sure what you mean by + on the amp over into to the amp


If you are trying to remove ground loops to see if a ground loop is the issues, you want to truely remove as many of them as possible. And not run from the battery another wire which creates a loop. (But the + and - twisted from the battery would not make a loop, unless the amp was grounded.

So there should be a remote turn on somewhere on the amplifier a few inches from the big power line input.

But if you're running a long wire back to the battery will create a coil, unless it is taped to the chassis the whole way to the battery... So just run a foot of wire at the amp itself and then you minimize creating a ground loop for that input.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> If you are trying to remove ground loops to see if a ground loop is the issues, you want to truely remove as many of them as possible. And not run from the battery another wire which creates a loop. (But the + and - twisted from the battery would not make a loop, unless the amp was grounded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So your saying just connect the 4ga 12v positive from my battery run a separate 16ga from there into the remote so essentially the amp is on all the time?


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## Shane (Oct 8, 2009)

I have three Zapco SP amps and a Helix processor. I just unplugged them all and tested the whine issue with just the Alpine 149BT as the source and amp. 

But in the end, I gave up and sold it.

I did many of the things you did. I already had an upgraded alternator, and I had my ground going directly to the frame of the vehicle. Even when I had the ground going right back to the battery, I still had whine. But I looked at everything as you have already done.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> So your saying just connect the 4ga 12v positive from my battery run a separate 16ga from there into the remote so essentially the amp is on all the time?


Yeah but I also mentioned a toggle switch, so all the time is limited... 
So I think "all the time" translates into "until the trouble shooting is done".
I also mentioned using a battery sitting on the curb, which is temporary too.

Once you know the source of the problem, then some reinstall happens, and all that crap gets cleaned up. But we are not there yet.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Yeah but I also mentioned a toggle switch, so all the time is limited...
> 
> So I think "all the time" translates into "until the trouble shooting is done".
> 
> ...




I'll try that but how would the remote wire coming from the deck or all the way from the battery create noise?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Shane said:


> I have three Zapco SP amps and a Helix processor. I just unplugged them all and tested the whine issue with just the Alpine 149BT as the source and amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Dang that's crazy. My previous iteration in this car didn't have alt whine but I don't know where else to look now. 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Dang that's crazy. My previous iteration in this car didn't have alt whine but I don't know where else to look now.


I only see three choices:
1) minimise the noise at the source (which maybe impossible)
2) mitigate it on the way to the battery and ground
3) figure out the mechanism of how the noise is entering into the amp, and defeat it there.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> I only see three choices:
> 
> 1) minimise the noise at the source (which maybe impossible)
> 
> ...




1 and 2 are not an option to me that's a bandaid not a solution. 


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

If its introduced threw the amplifier only then you have only a few options left. 
1. Make sure that there is no part of the amplifier housing/ frame that is being grounded in some way. ex. a stray wire from your ground cable/ car metal touching any part of the amplifier housing, etc.
2. I understand that it may be a band-aid, but if a "smoothing" capacitor will fix it, it could be a solution (on the power side).
Have you isolated the remote signal? As in just running a wire between the power and remote for detection? to at least, eliminate that possible issue as well.
Sorry man, I know that some of this may be redundant. 
I hope you figure this out and let us know. 
Ill keep thinking on it.
How loud is the whine? I assume it is amplified along with the desired signal.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Yes, it is from the depths of HELL


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

jackal28 said:


> If its introduced threw the amplifier only then you have only a few options left.
> 
> 1. Make sure that there is no part of the amplifier housing/ frame that is being grounded in some way. ex. a stray wire from your ground cable/ car metal touching any part of the amplifier housing, etc.
> 
> ...




I appreciate everyones thoughts everything helps. The amp is mounted to plastic which has cld and mlv between it and painted metal. My next attempt will be attempting to isolate the remote signal. But how would that be different than running a wire outside the car straight to same location the amp power is coming from? When I did this method nothing else in the system was powered on. No lights no dsp no mono block amp no headunit? This is beyond annoying but I appreciate all ideas


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

jackal28 said:


> Yes, it is from the depths of HELL




Beyond it at this point!! 


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Shorting the remote and then using a player (ipod, phone, etc), via rca's directly through the amp would be a complete isolation from the system.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

jackal28 said:


> Shorting the remote and then using a player (ipod, phone, etc), via rca's directly through the amp would be a complete isolation from the system.




Thank you I will try this on my next days off. 


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

jackal28 said:


> Shorting the remote and then using a player (ipod, phone, etc), via rca's directly through the amp would be a complete isolation from the system.


Leaves you with only 3 possible culprits:
1. Power
2. Ground
3. Bad Amplifier


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Best of luck to you. Let us know how it goes.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

jackal28 said:


> Leaves you with only 3 possible culprits:
> 
> 1. Power
> 
> ...




It has to be 1 or 2. I have swapped with a brand new hd600/4 fresh out of the box. And an xd400/4 proven to silent in another car. 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

jackal28 said:


> Leaves you with only 3 possible culprits:
> 1. Power
> 2. Ground
> 3. Bad Amplifier


Powering the amp from the curb, would also test out power and ground disconnected from the vehicle...

For ground loops we also have:
4) speakers
i.e if the speaker had the negative side tied to the chassis... which why I suggested using some speaker on the car seat.
However speakers are low impedance so getting them to be a ground loop would be hard.

If it is even is a ground loop problem.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Powering the amp from the curb, would also test out power and ground disconnected from the vehicle...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So if it doesn't do it from another vehicle (which I know it won't) then what?


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

I have not gone though this hole post yet
Your getting noisy power? Checked every little thing and changed this , that and Her. Lol
Something that 99% of even auto techs 
So called master techs. Will pull the cart over with the carbine pile tester , how ever you spell it. It test your alternator for voltage and amperage and everything is ok
14.4 volts at a high rpm. Take a heavy amp load test just fine Hell. It may even handle 250 amps. The one thing that do t understand and do t check for is ac feedback in the alternator , or coming out of the alt. It’s a generator , they change things around inside of it to make it a alt to make dc voltage 
Inside they have diode’s , rectifier and other little things in there to keep it from making ac voltage. If they put a meter on it and set it to ac. You will get maybe 2.3 2.7 volts of ac
And get your 14.4 dc. But if your getting over 3 or 4 volts of ac all kinds of crap goes on and the car will keep running. Burn up batteries, needing to get jump started 
Bla bla bla. Check for ac ripple back feed
You should not get more then 3 volts and it’s only milliamps As it goes bad, it will make a lot of amperage higher ac voltage 
Techs miss this so many times. They test the alt out and it puts out what it should and that mechanism they are using does not test for ac ripple feedback. 
And yes it makes your high end car audio sound like crap and will burn up your amps


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

carlthess40 said:


> I have not gone though this hole post yet
> Your getting noisy power? Checked every little thing and changed this , that and Her. Lol
> Something that 99% of even auto techs
> So called master techs. Will pull the cart over with the carbine pile tester , how ever you spell it. It test your alternator for voltage and amperage and everything is ok
> ...




I will test this. But why would a new alternator do the same thing? Got a bad one out of the box from dealership?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> So if it doesn't do it from another vehicle (which I know it won't) then what?


Probably touch a wire from the car battery - to the curb battery -.
And could you hook up the RCA and see what happens.

You don't know what the problem is now, so you will not be any worse off afterwards.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

carlthess40 said:


> I have not gone though this hole post yet
> Your getting noisy power? Checked every little thing and changed this , that and Her. Lol
> Something that 99% of even auto techs
> So called master techs. Will pull the cart over with the carbine pile tester , how ever you spell it. It test your alternator for voltage and amperage and everything is ok
> ...




Do you measure ac using the dmm from the output post of alt and any ground in the bay?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Do you measure ac using the dmm from the output post of alt and any ground in the bay?


Or an oscope.
The wire that connects the alternator to the battery and to the amp, mean that you can check anywhere and it will be the same everywhere. The voltage is ubiquitous unless there is a choke between the alternator and battery.


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

You can just uses a good volt meter and test it from the main. Aka largest positive cable coming off the alternator and you can ground it at any of the bolts at or near the alternator. If it has a smaller plug on the alternator, you can look up what dc voltage should be coming from each pin. Just back prob each wire when it still plugged in and motor running 
On newer cars they use a ground controller system and one wire may be a ground and you’ll need to test it as well
Long story short, your best to use the ground at the battery and test for ac voltage at the large one wire of the alternator 
I’ve had times to where I’ve gotten 4 bad alternators in a row for the same car on the same day and all for
Different parts stores , new ones and reman ones. Good luck and let me know if you would want me to talk you though it over the phone. . Just send me a pm


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

Just FYI 
I’m a retired/ disabled master mechanic of 37 years and was also a specialist at drivability and electrical diagnostics ,and also would from time to time teach classes for snapon and other tool dealers for the use and features of using scanners and OEM dealers laptop and software for the computer systems and diagnostics
So I know a few tricks of the trade


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

carlthess40 said:


> Just FYI
> I’m a retired/ disabled master mechanic of 37 years and was also a specialist at drivability and electrical diagnostics ,and also would from time to time teach classes for snapon and other tool dealers for the use and features of using scanners and OEM dealers laptop and software for the computer systems and diagnostics
> So I know a few tricks of the trade




How close are you to Denver Colorado? Hahaha 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

carlthess40 said:


> Just FYI
> I’m a retired/ disabled master mechanic of 37 years and was also a specialist at drivability and electrical diagnostics ,and also would from time to time teach classes for snapon and other tool dealers for the use and features of using scanners and OEM dealers laptop and software for the computer systems and diagnostics
> So I know a few tricks of the trade




So hypothetically If everything on my alternator checks out after reading my first post where would you go next?


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

Redliner99 said:


> How close are you to Denver Colorado? Hahaha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Well Denver Colorado is the mile high city
I’m at or more likely below sea level. Lol
Florida. 
I really would have to talk to you on the phone. Why to much to text your type
I would be more then happy to chat. Send me a pm


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

carlthess40 said:


> Well Denver Colorado is the mile high city
> I’m at or more likely below sea level. Lol
> Florida.
> I really would have to talk to you on the phone. Why to much to text your type
> I would be more then happy to chat. Send me a pm




Pm sent let me know if it comes through 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

So not sure where else to head aside using a test speaker at the amp. I used an oscilloscope at the alternator and it was shows 35-40mv ac and 10-15mv ac at the battery. 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

If the RCAs are plugging into a iPod or similar, then it is hard to get a ground loop into these if the iPod is not grounded.

This leaves noise coming in on the remote turn on, or the power or ground.
Powering it from the old battery (if you still have it) can eliminate a power and ground, and then we tackle the next step should that show success.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> If the RCAs are plugging into a iPod or similar, then it is hard to get a ground loop into these if the iPod is not grounded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How is it making a ground loop if no signals are hooked up to it? Also I can power from the battery in my car as long as the alt is unhooked. Also doesn't make noise if it's not running 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> How is it making a ground loop if no signals are hooked up to it? Also I can power from the battery in my car as long as the alt is unhooked. Also doesn't make noise if it's not running


I dunno, I am only trying to help.

At this point it seems like the noise must be coming through the +, -, or the remote turn on wire.
If we can find out which one, then we can develope a strategy to ameliorate/defeate the noise.

The + side is normally well filtered, so I am leaning towards the ground as the noise source... (but it seems odd that noise is not coming though the RCAs.)

The main interest for me is that others will have similar issues, and a strategy to work through it is of use to yourself and others.

Somehow, perhaps, the ground is the problem, but we should await some further testing to quantify where and how the noise is getting in.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Well after some more testing and help and second ears from Gijoe it's looking like we have narrowed the whine down to something from the amp to the driver side tweeter. Gonna tear the interior out next weekend and trace wires. 


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## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

Ah-ha! There's always more to the story lol.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

thornygravy said:


> Ah-ha! There's always more to the story lol.




I guess so. We will see what happens. I'm tearing my hair out over it. 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Well after some more testing and help and second ears from Gijoe it's looking like we have narrowed the whine down to something from the amp to the driver side tweeter. Gonna tear the interior out next weekend and trace wires.


Pray tell?

How did you narrow it down?
what did you discover so far?
What was your methodology?

^These insights can help others^


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Pulled interior today to scope the speaker wire from the amp to the tweeter. Everything looked perfect like it did when I installed no pinched or slit wiring. I'm so confused as to what could be causing this. Anyone ever had any issues with XT90 connectors causing weird issues? Don't know where else to look at this point besides swapping the tweeter to passenger side and see what happens. 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Pulled interior today to scope the speaker wire from the amp to the tweeter. Everything looked perfect like it did when I installed no pinched or slit wiring. I'm so confused as to what could be causing this. Anyone ever had any issues with XT90 connectors causing weird issues? Don't know where else to look at this point besides swapping the tweeter to passenger side and see what happens.


Is the speaker grounded at either the + or - side?

What testing was it that made you believe that the speaker was involved?


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

I know that some members talked about it, =but did you ever check for bad diodes or ac ripple voltage coming from the alternator??

see here-- https://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182896-1.html


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

seafish said:


> I know that some members talked about it, =but did you ever check for bad diodes or ac ripple voltage coming from the alternator??
> 
> 
> 
> see here-- https://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182896-1.html




I tried but wasn't familiar enough with the oscilloscope I was using. Gonna hopefully try again when I get back to work. All I found I was reading 50mv of ac at the alternator positive and 10mv ac at the battery. Couldn't see the waveform though 


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Why not simply take it to a decent/reputable automotive electric shop near you for a diagnosis??

It would be money well spent instead of chasing your tail wondering out loud about battery terminals and speaker connectors !!!


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

seafish said:


> Well can you take it to a decent/reputable automotive electric shop near you for a diagnosis...money well spend instead of chasing your tail wondering out loud about battery terminals and speaker connectors !!!




I have a coworker who had been off for 6 months with an injury that's good with the scope. The battery terminals I ruled out they have no resistance and I swapped them out 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Pulled interior today to scope the speaker wire from the amp to the tweeter. Everything looked perfect like it did when I installed no pinched or slit wiring. I'm so confused as to what could be causing this. Anyone ever had any issues with XT90 connectors causing weird issues? Don't know where else to look at this point besides swapping the tweeter to passenger side and see what happens.


Did you do something along the lines of what I mentioned in post #68?

When that speaker is out of the system, then the noise disappears?

Are those speaker wires twisted around each other all the way up to the speaker? And not tied to the ground on the - side?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Did you do something along the lines of what I mentioned in post #68?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Tied to ground? Why would speaker be connected to anything but the amp?


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

PLEASE just get the diodes in your alternator checked!!!


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

seafish said:


> PLEASE just get the diodes in your alternator checked!!!




Hahaha I'm working on it! I'm heading into work now!


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

This thread has me pulling my hair out and I've got no emotional investment in this system!!!!!


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

JH1973 said:


> This thread has me pulling my hair out and I've got no emotional investment in this system!!!!!




You have no idea lol but while checking wiring I had some time to do a bit more decoupling in the rear plastic panels










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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

seafish said:


> PLEASE just get the diodes in your alternator checked!!!




So was able to get the ocsilliscope on my alternator and this was the best I could come up with.
























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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

Can’t you see the spikes going on there? And you can’t test all the Diode’s with a scope. Just pull the damn thing and change it out. Have you moved the one speaker to the other side and see if the. Noise follows?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

carlthess40 said:


> Can’t you see the spikes going on there? And you can’t test all the Diode’s with a scope. Just pull the damn thing and change it out. Have you moved the one speaker to the other side and see if the. Noise follows?




I already changed it out once! With a brand new alternator and it was still there. No I ran out of time when I was working on it last. 


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)




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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

https://www.circuitspecialists.com/blog/testing-an-alternator-with-an-oscilloscope/


Sorry. You can test them. Read this and it will tell you what and how to scope it the right way. Not saying your doing it the wrong way, just don’t know the way your testing it


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

carlthess40 said:


> https://www.circuitspecialists.com/blog/testing-an-alternator-with-an-oscilloscope/
> 
> 
> Sorry. You can test them. Read this and it will tell you what and how to scope it the right way. Not saying your doing it the wrong way, just don’t know the way your testing it




Obviously the resolution isn't what it needs to be but does the second picture in the three I posted strike you as bad diodes? 


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

Yes it does. Any reman alt 99.9% of the time they only change out the bad diode’s and not all of them which I should be changed all together so that their matched from the same production line or if it’s a new alt you most likely have a battery problem killing the alt


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

carlthess40 said:


> Yes it does. Any reman alt 99.9% of the time they only change out the bad diode’s and not all of them which I should be changed all together so that their matched from the same production line or if it’s a new alt you most likely have a battery problem killing the alt




Can diodes be weak and leak ac? The alt that's in it is the factory 182k alt. I took the reman back. I swapped the battery out just as test. The current battery is working fine been going strong for 3 years it's 10 degrees here tonight fired up just fine also tests fine across 2 different test machines. 


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

It’s 3am. Here I’ll get back to you tomorrow


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## MikeS (May 23, 2015)

Any cheep chineese chargers or other devices plugged in to lighter sockets or hardwired accessories?


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Redliner99 said:


> I already changed it out once! With a brand new alternator and it was still there. No I ran out of time when I was working on it last.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am going to guess that you replaced it with a remanufactured unit and NOT a brand new OEM.

Remans are SOOOOOOOO sketchy these days!!! Yes, even right out of the box. 

I have to say that you are wasting a lot of time here by not properly checking the diodes to having someone do it for you!!!!


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

The man has some skills and he is working on how to find out these types of problems 
I’d unplug the speaker before I would take my car to a shop and pay them $75. Plus a hour to run this down when I could do a lot of it and he s doing that and doing a fine job of it. We are all telling him this and that , but none of us are there to get the full picture of the problem 
He is trying to learn how to deal with one of the hardest things in the automotive tech field, and that’s . The electrical problems crap. I’ve been a tech since I was 14. Yes 14 working full time at a shop and helping feeding my brothers and sisters and father
Now I’m 51 and disabled for the last 3”4 years and was a master tech at 18 and my older brother was the youngest ( at 18 ) 
Factory certified master BMW technician in the state of Florida 
This is how you learn , feed Him information that may lead him to what’s happening, not bashing him. That’s what the forums are for
Helping and sharing


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

I will use two scopes on my truck today and take pics. One with a handheld 20mhz scope and the other with my new Siglent Oscilloscope sds1052dl+ scope using the step-by-step instructions laid out from that one link that I posted last night, and I will also do it without disconnecting the battery and show what it does


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

MikeS said:


> Any cheep chineese chargers or other devices plugged in to lighter sockets or hardwired accessories?




Nope


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

Let’s start over for one second 
Is the noise just in the one speaker? Or in all of them?


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

Here’s what my scope shows
First is the volts dc 14.04
Then my scope on the alt with and without being on the battery 
Last pic is with the battery cable off the battery and running just of the alternator 
Clean scope showing no spikes


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Tied to ground? Why would speaker be connected to anything but the amp?


I have no idea what you or someone else has done. You just mentioned that disconnecting a speaker made the probalem go away, so whether it is supposed to be tied to ground or not, this is something that a person can test for.




Redliner99 said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are not still convinced the alternator is good are you?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> I have no idea what you or someone else has done. You just mentioned that disconnecting a speaker made the probalem go away, so whether it is supposed to be tied to ground or not, this is something that a person can test for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No one else has working on it except for me. Good is a terrible adjective. The alternator works as it's designed producing voltage when needed to charge the battery. Is the alternator pushing ac into that system yes I think so. 


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## FlyingEagle (Sep 22, 2017)

If you saw only 10-25mV or up into the 35 or more range, it may be typical operation, but if you see more mV than that, and spikes ranging higher than that, this should indicate a diode that is not rectifing the signal as it crosses by. Every hump in the ripple in the first mobile upload the cartless uploaded, is showing you a point of rectification in the diode bridge.


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## carlthess40 (Aug 21, 2018)

Guys listen 
I talked to him for almost one hour yesterday 
Told him how to check the alt the right way
Got a text around 2 or 3am my time and after he did what I said to do and in 10deg weather he finally confirm that it’s the alternator 
He did this in the right way. Not all this BS that’s been going on here


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

carlthess40 said:


> Guys listen
> I talked to him for almost one hour yesterday
> Told him how to check the alt the right way
> Got a text around 2 or 3am my time and after he did what I said to do and in 10deg weather he finally confirm that it’s the alternator
> He did this in the right way. Not all this BS that’s been going on here


Well thanks for helping him out...you done good !!! And you ALSO saved us all from a "thread from hell about alternator whine from hell." LOL

FYI--I certainly try to be helpful in my posts, and while I didn't walk him through checking the alternator like you did, it was pretty clear after fairly early on that the problem, based on how it kept presenting itself, WAS in fact bad diodes on the reman alternator. Of course part of the lesson here is that a reman part from Autozone is in fact NOT the same as oem new.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> Well after some more testing and help and second ears from Gijoe it's looking like we have narrowed the whine down to something from the amp to the driver side tweeter. Gonna tear the interior out next weekend and trace wires.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am having a hard time understanding: IF the issue is with the alternator, HOW would it cause whine in *one* tweeter only..?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

seafish said:


> Well thanks for helping him out...you done good !!! And you ALSO saved us all from a "thread from hell about alternator whine from hell." LOL
> 
> 
> 
> FYI--I certainly try to be helpful in my posts, and while I didn't walk him through checking the alternator like you did, it was pretty clear after fairly early on that the problem, based on how it kept presenting itself, WAS in fact bad diodes on the reman alternator. Of course part of the lesson here is that a reman part from Autozone is in fact NOT the same as oem new.




You did help as well which I appreciate. Sadly the reman I tried a few weeks ago was rebuilt by denso and I bought it at the Honda dealership. it was producing whine as well so it got returned 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> I am having a hard time understanding: IF the issue is with the alternator, HOW would it cause whine in *one* tweeter only..?




So as a blind test I had 4 people listen to it over my weekend. 2 could hear it in both tweeters 1 could only hear it on the driver size and 1 couldn't hear it at all. Most importantly after unplugging the harness for the voltage regulator I couldn't hear anything personally. 


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> So as a blind test I had 4 people listen to it over my weekend. 2 could hear it in both tweeters 1 could only hear it on the driver size and 1 couldn't hear it at all. Most importantly after unplugging the harness for the voltage regulator I couldn't hear anything personally.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So the whine is very faint (regardless of what tweeter it's in)??


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> So the whine is very faint (regardless of what tweeter it's in)??




Super loud on driver not as loud on the passenger side 


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

DavidRam said:


> I am having a hard time understanding: IF the issue is with the alternator, HOW would it cause whine in *one* tweeter only..?


It could easily be tuning of that channel (i.e. XO, EQ and gain) making the frequency of the whine more pronounced on that channel over the others.

Or it could be the nature of the AC ripple traveling to find ground...perhaps that driver is closest to the alternator and/or battery.

Just thinking out loud here


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

seafish said:


> It could easily be tuning of that channel (i.e. XO, EQ and gain) making the frequency of the whine more pronounced on that channel over the others.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You very well could be right I'm just happy I located the issue FINALLY! Now where to get an alternator that isn't shut is the next question. Seems like the only place I can get a brand new one is from the dealership 


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> You very well could be right I'm just happy I located the issue FINALLY! Now where to get an alternator that isn't shut is the next question. Seems like the only place I can get a brand new one is from the dealership
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Glad you've got it narrowed down... Though, I am sure you were hoping that the alternator itself was NOT the issue. 

I have checked in on this thread every single day, with the hopes that you figured it out!


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> Glad you've got it narrowed down... Though, I am sure you were hoping that the alternator itself was NOT the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> I have checked in on this thread every single day, with the hopes that you figured it out!




Honestly at this point I didn't care what it was I just wanted to fix the problem. After all this energy on the install and trouble shooting I'm ok with it. It has 182k on it so Its getting to be that time. Now just need to find an alt that's worth a **** 


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Redliner99 said:


> ! Now where to get an alternator that isn't shut is the next question. Seems like the only place I can get a brand new one is from the dealership


Well I don't know your budget or your system power requirements, but by the time you pay BNIB dealership prices, you might want to also check out the more reputable upgraded alternators by aftermarket up fitters. I am NOT sure which brand to recommend as I am using OEM Denso 220a on my truck, but I know that there are some reputable ones out there. Possibly NOT Mechman, but do some research on different aftermarket suppliers.

Or you could locate a REPUTABLE old school DC electric repair shop near you (or even consider shipping??) who could repair and/or upgrade yours.

Just my .02


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

seafish said:


> Well I don't know your budget or your system power requirements, but by the time you pay BNIB dealership prices, you might want to also check out the more reputable upgraded alternators by aftermarket up fitters. I am NOT sure which brand to recommend as I am using OEM Denso 220a on my truck, but I know that there are some reputable ones out there. Possibly NOT Mechman, but do some research on different aftermarket suppliers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




At this point there is no budget I just want to replace it with something of good quality. 


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Check Rock Auto for their new alternator listings for your car...they will also have rebuilds, so choose carefully.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

carlthess40 said:


> Guys listen
> I talked to him for almost one hour yesterday
> Told him how to check the alt the right way
> Got a text around 2 or 3am my time and after he did what I said to do and in 10deg weather he finally confirm that it’s the alternator
> He did this in the right way. Not all this BS that’s been going on here


I respectfully disagree with that BS part.

This has been going on for weeks with the replacement of batteries, grounding points, etc.

With just about everything but a structured method to diagnose the problem.
If you did not get on the phone, this would have extended to 2019 or 2020.
You've been Santa early.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

seafish said:


> Check Rock Auto for their new alternator listings for your car...they will also have rebuilds, so choose carefully.



Sadly they don't sell any new ones 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> I respectfully disagree with that BS part.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Man you sure have a pretty nice way of saying all the efforts taken here were ****ty and not a "structured method of diagnosis". Thanks for your posts but litterally nothing you suggested made any sense. 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Man you sure have a pretty nice way of saying all the efforts taken here were ****ty and not a "structured method of diagnosis". Thanks for your posts but litterally nothing you suggested made any sense.


I have to agree that we had some back n forth with questions, so I am at fault as is takes two to communicate. It was also frustrating from my perspective as I was not making sense to you. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Most troubleshooting efforts have a way of being difficult.
I have done a bit of trouble shooting and have a grasp of the topic in a general sense, so I have some homework to do to be able to out it into words.
Again apologies for not being able to convey the reasoning well enough.

On a positive note, I think this thread has been generally helpful and is likely to be able to help others. So it was not a waste. But I can see how it would not be a lot of fun to go through it one's self.

It will be nice to read when it all finally gets solved.


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## MikeS (May 23, 2015)

Redliner99 said:


> Sadly they don't sell any new ones
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Take the numbers from original alternator, it should have alternator manufacturers part number on it in addition to cars part number. Search ebay/amazon..

Some used alts for cheap parts could do aswell, new brush holder is few $ and rest of the parts can be checked and swapped over. Densos are really easy to disassemble.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

MikeS said:


> Take the numbers from original alternator, it should have alternator manufacturers part number on it in addition to cars part number. Search ebay/amazon..
> 
> 
> 
> Some used alts for cheap parts could do aswell, new brush holder is few $ and rest of the parts can be checked and swapped over. Densos are really easy to disassemble.




In all honesty I would rather just replace the whole unit and not have to worry about it. 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> In all honesty I would rather just replace the whole unit and not have to worry about it.


Except you already replaced it... and there are many people that all are saying that the reconditioned alternators are often not good.
So that it makes it a bit of a crap-shoot.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Except you already replaced it... and there are many people that all are saying that the reconditioned alternators are often not good.
> 
> So that it makes it a bit of a crap-shoot.




Yea this time will be a singer alt or brand new oem denso not reman


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Yea this time will be a singer alt or brand new oem denso not reman


When does the new alternator go in?


Is it common for noise on the power lines to couple directly through the amp's power/ground leads?

I though the one single speaker was somehow involved?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> When does the new alternator go in?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




When I have 450$ to replace it. I'm not sure. And I hear it from both tweeters 


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

This thread is cursed!!


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

JH1973 said:


> This thread is cursed!!




I wouldn't go so far as to say that lol. I'm still on the hunt for which alternator I'm going to buy. I'm still having a hard time swallowing my 182k mile alt has a bad diode AND a fresh out of box new (reman) denso alt I put in also had a bad diode. I have seen worse happed from "new" parts but still gambling 450$ when I don't have a 110% feeling that's the issue is annoying 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> I wouldn't go so far as to say that lol. I'm still on the hunt for which alternator I'm going to buy. I'm still having a hard time swallowing my 182k mile alt has a bad diode AND a fresh out of box new (reman) denso alt I put in also had a bad diode. I have seen worse happed from "new" parts but still gambling 450$ when I don't have a 110% feeling that's the issue is annoying


^That^ is probably correct.

When that new alternator goes in, and the noise is still there, then what will the approach be?

At some point "the thing changed", needs to be the "thing causing the issue", if there is to be success.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> ^That^ is probably correct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The new approach will be 5 gallons of gas, a match, a chair and few beers to watch it burn to the ground 


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

Post it on youtube!


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

If you powered the alternator off of a spare, or borrowed, battery... and you still had the hum... then would that indicate a ground loop?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> If you powered the alternator off of a spare, or borrowed, battery... and you still had the hum... then would that indicate a ground loop?




How would you power the alternator off of a spare? The battery has already been swapped 2 times 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> How would you power the alternator off of a spare? The battery has already been swapped 2 times


I would think after a few swaps we can eliminate the battery as the source of the noise 

I would use a black and red wire from "the battery on the curb" to the amp, as mention a few times in the threads.
That is the only way I can see to determine if the noise is competing in through the power or ground. But maybe there are other ways that I cannot envision?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

There is no noise with car off


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> There is no noise with car off


You've said that ad nasuem... but what is it about the car being on that gets the noise into the system?

My point was that with some structured approach, like a fishbone diagram (aka Isakawa chart), then you would have causal mechanisms that could cause the effect.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishikawa_diagram

Then one starts working through ^those^.


You are considering a third alternator at $450, plus the time to put it in. However it would be wise to know if that will solve the problem before installing it. And also wise to understand the mechanism that is involved.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> You've said that ad nasuem... but what is it about the car being on that gets the noise into the system?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well please mister know it all tell me what I should do since you keep asking the same questions. I have litteraly laid out EVERYTHING I have done in this thread. If I knew an alternator would solve the problem I would have already bought one. Please add something semi coherently useful and I'll try it otherwise find another thread to clog up with garbage ideas. 


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## MikeS (May 23, 2015)

If not sure what next filter the noise at the source. Just buy a helix cap 33 and install it parallel to alternator, not battery or amp. a lot cheaper to try it first. You can also buy standard caps if you want to go cheaper, instructions somewhere in google.

Tried new rca wires?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

MikeS said:


> If not sure what next filter the noise at the source. Just buy a helix cap 33 and install it parallel to alternator, not battery or amp. a lot cheaper to try it first. You can also buy standard caps if you want to go cheaper, instructions somewhere in google.
> 
> 
> 
> Tried new rca wires?




That's a good idea but that's just bandaiding the issue in my opinion. It does it when the rcas aren't even connected to amp. 


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## MikeS (May 23, 2015)

Redliner99 said:


> That's a good idea but that's just bandaiding the issue in my opinion. It does it when the rcas aren't even connected to amp.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's got to be either speaker wire slightly touching the chassis, crushed/split somewhere or a strand touching at the amp or speaker side. Or faulty amp.. If you put in an amp thats supposed to be quiet like JL XD or better series which has differential inputs it should be dead silent. I'd start rechecking the wiring with multimeter and proper light if moving the amplifier to different location does not change a thing.

If you can't find a thing wrong with it if it takes the problem away is it better to bang head against the wall for weeks? (it still might not but anyway)


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

MikeS said:


> It's got to be either speaker wire slightly touching the chassis, crushed/split somewhere or a strand touching at the amp or speaker side. Or faulty amp.. If you put in an amp thats supposed to be quiet like JL XD or better series which has differential inputs it should be dead silent. I'd start rechecking the wiring with multimeter and proper light if moving the amplifier to different location does not change a thing.
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't find a thing wrong with it if it takes the problem away is it better to bang head against the wall for weeks? (it still might not but anyway)




Last weekend I pulled all the interior apart and traced all the speaker wire. All the way from the amp to the speakers. It all looks perfect all the connections at the speakers are all xt90 connectors protected and heat shrunk. The amp has been swapped with a brand new hd600/4 an xd400/4 and a alpine 4channel. Does it on all amps. The amp is mounted on plastic with a layer of cld and mlv before any metal would be close. The absolute ONLY way I have found to get rid of the noise with the motor running is to unhook the alt from fuse box or while it's connected unplug the voltage regulator harness 


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## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

curious to see what happens with the new alt!


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

thornygravy said:


> curious to see what happens with the new alt!




You and me both. The next question is where to buy from and am I going to be ok if it spend 450$ and it doesn't solve the problem lolol 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Well please mister know it all tell me what I should do since you keep asking the same questions. I have litteraly laid out EVERYTHING I have done in this thread. If I knew an alternator would solve the problem I would have already bought one. Please add something semi coherently useful and I'll try it otherwise find another thread to clog up with garbage ideas.


If you want me to call you and chat about it, then PM your number, otherwise maybe I'll just watch.


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## MikeS (May 23, 2015)

Redliner99 said:


> The absolute ONLY way I have found to get rid of the noise with the motor running is to unhook the alt from fuse box or while it's connected unplug the voltage regulator harness
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So from there If you put your multimeter to volts and touch the battery negative and alternator casing while engine is running with all accessories you can turn on how much you get?

If you get a volt reading, theres some voltage drop. If so, does attaching a jumper cable to batt negative and alt casing do anything to noise.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

MikeS said:


> So from there If you put your multimeter to volts and touch the battery negative and alternator casing while engine is running with all accessories you can turn on how much you get?
> 
> 
> 
> If you get a volt reading, theres some voltage drop. If so, does attaching a jumper cable to batt negative and alt casing do anything to noise.




I ran a wire from the alt case to ground on the battery and had no change. But I didn't take a voltage reading from the case to ground 


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## Eddiefromcali (Jan 21, 2019)

Have you tried relocating a speaker within or eveno utside the car to see if it still does it?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Bringing this thread back. I installed a new alt from Singer and it DID NOT get rid of the whine. Anyone wanna buy a sweet pilot with an awesome alt whine?


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Sorry for your plight. Not sure if I mentioned this but I had a similar issue and the only way I got rid of it was to ditch my rca from head unit to dsp in back of 4Runner and run high level signal from hu to dsp and it stopped all noise. 
I thought it might be the rca but I installed a system in my daughters Camry over the weekend and used the rca and amp that was noisy in my 4Runner but totally silent in her Camry. It’s teally frustrating


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Iamsecond said:


> Sorry for your plight. Not sure if I mentioned this but I had a similar issue and the only way I got rid of it was to ditch my rca from head unit to dsp in back of 4Runner and run high level signal from hu to dsp and it stopped all noise.
> 
> I thought it might be the rca but I installed a system in my daughters Camry over the weekend and used the rca and amp that was noisy in my 4Runner but totally silent in her Camry. It’s teally frustrating




It does it with no rcas even connected. 


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Wow. Crazy. What happens if you take all the equipment out of the car? Yikes


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Iamsecond said:


> Wow. Crazy. What happens if you take all the equipment out of the car? Yikes




Take what all out?


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## DroogBC (Nov 15, 2018)

Have you attempted to disconnect each speaker at the amp, one at a time, to see if disconnecting one happens to stop the noise on the others?

Can you easily take your tweeter (or a test speaker) and connect it to the amp with a short fresh piece of wire to see if the noise is still present?

Have you tried intentionally grounding your amps rca negatives to the amp chassis? Try using a small jumper wire to test. It sounds nutty, but others have apparently killed whine using this technique.

Hopefully you can get to the bottom of it, but if you just want to drive it to Canada and leave it in my driveway I would completely understand.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DroogBC said:


> Have you attempted to disconnect each speaker at the amp, one at a time, to see if disconnecting one happens to stop the noise on the others?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It does it without rcas even connected. Just the amp and speakers. And I have used a test speaker but it's hard to hear it with the hatch open next to the exhaust in the rear of the car 


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## DroogBC (Nov 15, 2018)

Yes, so disconnect one speaker at a time to determine if it's something on one of those individual circuits that's allowing noise to enter. You could theoretically disconnect a midbass and suddenly find your tweeters whine free. 

But assuming you were to do that to no avail, if you could pull the actual tweeter and drag them to the trunk or even just yank a fresh lead from amp to tweet juuust to make extra sure one of your already installed wires isn't maybe a bit too close to something in your car that's poorly shielded or something, allowing noise to enter. (Do this for each channel individually, tweeter or not.)

And if neither of those help, take a jumper wire and connect it from your rca negative to the amp chassis. Yeah, I know, it happens without rcas connected, but try it anyway just to troubleshoot. I literally was just looking at another thread where the guy snaked wire from a chassis screw then around all 4 rca negatives and then to another chassis screw. He said it was the only thing that got rid of his whine, but ymmv.

Also, you said your amp is super well insulated from the chassis. Mounted on plastic or something. Maybe, just for experimentations sake, you mount it to something metal and grounded (or jumper the amp chassis to ground.) Conventional wisdom doesn't seem to be doing the trick, and ground loops/noise intrusion can be caused (and solved) in the darndest ways sometimes, so what the hell... Worth a shot and doesn't cost anything.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

DroogBC said:


> Yes, so disconnect one speaker at a time to determine if it's something on one of those individual circuits that's allowing noise to enter. You could theoretically disconnect a midbass and suddenly find your tweeters whine free.
> 
> But assuming you were to do that to no avail, if you could pull the actual tweeter and drag them to the trunk or even just yank a fresh lead from amp to tweet juuust to make extra sure one of your already installed wires isn't maybe a bit too close to something in your car that's poorly shielded or something, allowing noise to enter.
> 
> ...


Post #110 said it related to being connected to one of the tweeters.
(No further information)

In theory, one could remove that tweeter, place it in the seat, and see if the noise persists.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Post #110 said it related to being connected to one of the tweeters.
> 
> (No further information)
> 
> ...




No it's both 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DroogBC said:


> Yes, so disconnect one speaker at a time to determine if it's something on one of those individual circuits that's allowing noise to enter. You could theoretically disconnect a midbass and suddenly find your tweeters whine free.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Interesting thoughts. I'll have to try some more things when I get enough motivation to care enough to mess with it more. I have 60-80hrs in trying to find this noise I'm over it


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Really interesting thread, believe it or not it happens to many people. 

One generic thing I would say, that I've come across before, is that many times in this sort of situation there are several things (2, 3 or more) that are causing/contributing to the problem simultaneously. Thus, eliminating things one-at-a-time while troubleshooting doesn't get you anywhere - you fix one problem, but since 2 other problems are still present, you assume you got nowhere. So, you have to fix this, that, and the other all at once then test and see what's what. 

Another thing is I have seen decks cause this problem alot, although that is the last place most people look.

I will reread the thread, and see if I can contribute more specifically.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

GEM592 said:


> Really interesting thread, believe it or not it happens to many people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It does it with out the deck powered or any rcas connected. Just the amp on no volume remote tied to 12+ to turn it on. 


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Redliner99 said:


> It does it with out the deck or any rcas connected
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well yes, I just read that. Sorry.

I think most likely there are several issues occurring simultaneously, which makes it inherently hard to diagnose. The last time I dealt with this problem, I had to upgrade the charging wiring, reroute the signal cable, etc, just to finally isolate the fact that the deck had an issue.

I know this is vague, overly-generalized mumbo-jumbo but you seem to be at that point, again I will study the thread more carefully and try to help.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

GEM592 said:


> Well yes, I just read that. Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm at my whits end with this problem. Any insight is appreciated thank you 


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## Adrock (Jan 21, 2019)

In a previous install I was able to induce whine in my tweeters due to the passive crossovers orientation and vicinity to the interior vehicle harness on each side of the vehicle. Either the crossover or the speaker wire was picking up noise from one of the vehicles systems/power wires and would increase or decrease with position. I was able to place everything so there was no interference. 

You said that your rebuild is when the problem began and it was a switch to active. The process of narrowing it down has shown that the alt being disconnected silences the whine and it sounds like the noise isn't present when the engine isn't running. The equipment of the system appears to not be at fault after the process of elimination and it looks like you were able to figure out that the alt can induce noise. With that information, have you tried checking your speaker leads from the amp to the tweeter? Could the speaker leads be too close in relation to a harness that might be allowing interference to the unshielded speaker wire? Have you tried going back to passive and still have the same interference?

I tried to skim through all the posts, so sorry if this has already been addressed.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Redliner99 said:


> No it's both
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I still think it's only the one channel, but you've spent a lot more time on this than I did, so I have to defer to your judgment.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

GEM592 said:


> Well yes, I just read that. Sorry.
> 
> I think most likely there are several issues occurring simultaneously, which makes it inherently hard to diagnose. The last time I dealt with this problem, I had to upgrade the charging wiring, reroute the signal cable, etc, just to finally isolate the fact that the deck had an issue.
> 
> I know this is vague, overly-generalized mumbo-jumbo but you seem to be at that point, again I will study the thread more carefully and try to help.


So what is needed is a way to sort through it?
I have tied a few suggestions, but maybe the greater community can come up with an approach?

Putting the whole system on the seats and powering it from a spare battery and gradually mounting speaker back in to work through it slowly seems like the only approach I can envision.

If the system is making noise with only the car's + and - wires hooked to the amp, then that seems to point to needing to make the alternator produce less AC, or filtering the AC out between the alternator and the battery.

That could be difficult if the AC is being induced on the ground side, and easier if it is only on the + side.





Adrock said:


> In a previous install I was able to induce whine in my tweeters due to the passive crossovers orientation and vicinity to the interior vehicle harness on each side of the vehicle. Either the crossover or the speaker wire was picking up noise from one of the vehicles systems/power wires and would increase or decrease with position. I was able to place everything so there was no interference.
> 
> You said that your rebuild is when the problem began and it was a switch to active. The process of narrowing it down has shown that the alt being disconnected silences the whine and it sounds like the noise isn't present when the engine isn't running. The equipment of the system appears to not be at fault after the process of elimination and it looks like you were able to figure out that the alt can induce noise. With that information, have you tried checking your speaker leads from the amp to the tweeter? Could the speaker leads be too close in relation to a harness that might be allowing interference to the unshielded speaker wire? Have you tried going back to passive and still have the same interference?
> 
> I tried to skim through all the posts, so sorry if this has already been addressed.


It is almost certain that if there was interfence on the speaker wire it would be magnetically induced, and not capacitively coupled.
But I suppose it could be electrical (capacitive)...
In any case the speaker itself is 4-ohms, but maybe at the frequency of the noise is higher impedance? It seems like the speaker would be shunting any noise to ground pretty goo
That leaves the noise raising or lowing the whole ground of the system (amp). And I say "amp" if it is doing this with the RCAs disconnected.
So the noise has to be coming in via +, -, remote-turn-on or speaker wires.

Figuring "where it is coming in" seems like a requirement to figure out how to ameliorate the noise.

I don't know... maybe you guys will be able to propose a cogent approach?


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

This IS a charging issue. Here's what I got from all 9 pages. When you unplug the alternator, the noise goes away. The alternator may not be faulty, but it's CAUSING the problem. That to me means two things. 

1) The engine to chassis ground is not enough ground, or it's broken. Give them a looksee. Next, go to the part store (or use spare heavy gauge wire) and add not one but 2 additional engine to chassis grounds. Ensure all grounds are to bare metal or terminated at bolts that go through the chassis. Additional grounds NEVER hurt anything.

2) I also have read several times that the ground wires are being grounded to the negative terminal on the battery. This is not ideal. The negative terminal on the battery is NOT a direct chassis ground. Please ground your amp to a chassis ground and not the terminal. Please let me know after you've completed these steps. 

After that...we at least have a solid base line to start the diagnosis with.

And use a REAL ground strap...like this: https://ceautoelectricsupply.com/product/0-awg-braided-ground-strap/


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Pb82 Ronin said:


> This IS a charging issue. Here's what I got from all 9 pages. When you unplug the alternator, the noise goes away. The alternator may not be faulty, but it's CAUSING the problem. That to me means two things.
> 
> 1) The engine to chassis ground is not enough ground, or it's broken. Give them a looksee. Next, go to the part store (or use spare heavy gauge wire) and add not one but 2 additional engine to chassis grounds. Ensure all grounds are to bare metal or terminated at bolts that go through the chassis. Additional grounds NEVER hurt anything.
> 
> ...


The idea of the amp on the insulated seat and speaker, and then the + and - and remote connected only to the battery was along the lines of a single source.

So we seem to be in conceptual agreement here.


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## DroogBC (Nov 15, 2018)

I may have missed it, but is this whine rpm dependant? In other words, does the frequency seem to increase or otherwise change when you rev the engine or is a constant pitch at all times?


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## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

DroogBC said:


> I may have missed it, but is this whine rpm dependant? In other words, does the frequency seem to increase or otherwise change when you rev the engine or is a constant pitch at all times?


I believe he said it is rpm dependent. I'd pretty much pay the gas money for someone to go over there and help him sort this out at this point lol.


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## DroogBC (Nov 15, 2018)

Holmz said:


> The idea of the amp on the insulated seat and speaker, and then the + and - and remote connected only to the battery was along the lines of a single source.
> 
> So we seem to be in conceptual agreement here.


I agree. At this point, if he has a garage or a decent place to work, I'd almost be inclined to pull the amp and speakers all out of the car and wire them up on the bench with fresh wire. Then wire the bench to the car B+ and chassis ground to see if it still does it.

If so, we would know it is not coming in through his existing speaker wiring, or amp/speaker install. Then he can disconnect one speaker at a time to see if that happens to change anything if he hasn't already done so by then. If neither of those help we can say it's likely not his wiring job, it's likely not any of the speakers themselves, and since he's swapped out the amp and tested it in another car we know it's not the amp itself.

Which to me would make me think it's not the stereo or the interior install, but something else entirely. Maybe one of those fresh wires down by the alternator getting too close to something producing a frequency, like an ecu or fuel injectors or something, or the voltage regulator harness itself, or an hps or led ballast, or god only knows. 

Definitely a puzzle.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

DroogBC said:


> I agree. At this point, if he has a garage or a decent place to work, I'd almost be inclined to pull the amp and speakers all out of the car and wire them up on the bench with fresh wire. Then wire the bench to the car B+ and chassis ground to see if it still does it.
> 
> If so, we would know it is not coming in through his existing speaker wiring, or amp/speaker install...
> ...


Actually if it still produced the noise we would only know that the noise must be coming through the ground or + wire.
We would not have proved anything about the install, and whether noise is coming from the install.

If it did not produce noise noise on the bench, then we "probably" could say that there is something about the install... but we would not know what it is.

However we would know that the install doesn't matter until we figure out how to mitigate the noise from the + or - (or remote turn on wire).

Once the amp works fine on the bench, then... one by one... wires can be hooked up in the car, and it will either have noise magically appearing, or not. But we would know which wire made the noise appear.


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## DroogBC (Nov 15, 2018)

If all of his existing speaker wires are completely disconnected, the speakers and amp removed from the car, it would likely be safe to assume that they're not responsible for allowing the introduction of noise though, no?

Yes, if it still existed we would know it was coming from either b+ or chassis ground. It wouldn't tell us what the problem was, but it might help to rule out at least a couple of line items. Or at the very least show them to be far less likely to be at fault.

My thoughts anyway. Not to be taken as gospel.


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

There should be ZERO reason to remove speakers from the car at this point. Start with the simplest stuff first. He's replaced amps several times. It's not the amp being defective. This is a wire or ground problem. You MUST have good grounds. 

One question OP...when did this all start? Obviously you didn't buy the car this way...or did you? Was it immediately after the install?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

DroogBC said:


> If all of his existing speaker wires are completely disconnected, the speakers and amp removed from the car, it would likely be safe to assume that they're not responsible for allowing the introduction of noise though, no?
> 
> Yes, if it still existed we would know it was coming from either b+ or chassis ground. It wouldn't tell us what the problem was, but it might help to rule out at least a couple of line items. Or at the very least show them to be far less likely to be at fault.
> 
> My thoughts anyway. Not to be taken as gospel.


I don't know, but I think it is a good thing that we are working though it.

Essentially I am thinking everything on the bench, but with the power and ground coming from the car... and then the remote turn on wire coming from the power line. And using an iPad or similar as the source, with no music playing.

Step #2 (if there is no noise) would be the remote turn on wire coming from the head unit in the car

Step #3 would be the source from HU in the car, and the amp/speakers still on the bench.

Step #4 would be the amp in the car and speakers on the bench

Step #5 would be speakers back in, one by one.

If there was no noise through step #3, then it should be easy.
If step #1 fails, then it is a new alternator or filtering of the power from the alternator.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Here's my solution to the problem...get rid of the car and start over with something else! Or hire an Exorcist. At this point I don't even think an Exorcist can cast out this demon.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Pb82 Ronin said:


> This IS a charging issue. Here's what I got from all 9 pages. When you unplug the alternator, the noise goes away. The alternator may not be faulty, but it's CAUSING the problem. That to me means two things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




All grounds in the engine bay have been changed to stupid huge 2/0 wire. I even put the stock grounds back no change. Ran a ground from the case of the alt to the battery no change. I have ran external power and ground wires to the amp from the battery as well. 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

thornygravy said:


> I believe he said it is rpm dependent. I'd pretty much pay the gas money for someone to go over there and help him sort this out at this point lol.




Yes it is rpm dependent and that's why it's so annoying. Every time the car downshifts the noises goes up with rpm so you can imagine in traffic how annoying that would be. 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Here's my solution to the problem...get rid of the car and start over with something else! Or hire an Exorcist. At this point I don't even think an Exorcist can cast out this demon.




It's getting to that point! I'm beyond over it. 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Pb82 Ronin said:


> There should be ZERO reason to remove speakers from the car at this point. Start with the simplest stuff first. He's replaced amps several times. It's not the amp being defective. This is a wire or ground problem. You MUST have good grounds.
> 
> 
> 
> One question OP...when did this all start? Obviously you didn't buy the car this way...or did you? Was it immediately after the install?




After I switched from passive to active. 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DroogBC said:


> If all of his existing speaker wires are completely disconnected, the speakers and amp removed from the car, it would likely be safe to assume that they're not responsible for allowing the introduction of noise though, no?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




When the speakers are disconnected it goes away because it's not connected to the amp. But I have tried 3 different amps. 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DroogBC said:


> I agree. At this point, if he has a garage or a decent place to work, I'd almost be inclined to pull the amp and speakers all out of the car and wire them up on the bench with fresh wire. Then wire the bench to the car B+ and chassis ground to see if it still does it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have powered the system with wiring outside the car the amps are isolated. The power side hasn't changed in the car since the original install. And
Unplugging each speaker doesn't get rid of it except in the speaker that is unplugged 


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

Redliner99 said:


> All grounds in the engine bay have been changed to stupid huge 2/0 wire. I even put the stock grounds back no change. Ran a ground from the case of the alt to the battery no change. I have ran external power and ground wires to the amp from the battery as well.


Okay great. So we know it's not a ground issue. However, QUIT grounding things to the negative post on the battery. That is not an effective enough ground. 



Redliner99 said:


> Yes it is rpm dependent and that's why it's so annoying. Every time the car downshifts the noises goes up with rpm so you can imagine in traffic how annoying that would be.


This is good news. You know now that it IS alternator output finding it's way into the input of the speakers. Now we just have to figure out how. Wire them down and eliminate them one by one. 



Redliner99 said:


> After I switched from passive to active.


We have a winner. Retrace your steps in this event. You said it goes away when speakers are unplugged. Are you running a DSP or straight off the amp? What wiring did you change (and how) when you made this switch? Did it ever do this in the prior configuration (IE passive)?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Here's my solution to the problem...get rid of the car and start over with something else! Or hire an Exorcist. At this point I don't even think an Exorcist can cast out this demon.


If it was demonic, and we could prove that demons exist, then an exorcist would be a reasonable installer to seek out.

However most of audio is driven by electricity, and our understanding of electricity and science from people like Maxwell, can lead us to a solution based upon an understanding of the science.

Ishakawa deserve a mention here...


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Pb82 Ronin said:


> Okay great. So we know it's not a ground issue. However, QUIT grounding things to the negative post on the battery. That is not an effective enough ground.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




what would be a better ground location in a 12v system with a battery than the battery itself? If you read the thread I have progressively changed everything back to the way it was with no changes in the whine 


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## DroogBC (Nov 15, 2018)

Pb82 Ronin said:


> There should be ZERO reason to remove speakers from the car at this point. Start with the simplest stuff first. He's replaced amps several times. It's not the amp being defective. This is a wire or ground problem. You MUST have good grounds.


Which is why I initially suggested disconnecting one speaker at a time to see if it's something on one of the individual channels that's picking it up, and would still do that first, but once you've spent months dicking around what is another day pulling a few speakers and amp to rewire outside of the car?

At least it would be all there right in front of you for easy access. 

If for some reason disconnecting speakers individually didn't fix it but wiring at the bench did (with no other changes to speak of) it may then be conceivable that all of the speaker wiring inside the car is acting as the perfect antenna for that particular frequency, because we would have seemingly ruled out any localized leaking/absorption of rf or electromagnetic interference with the stereo components as everything is now outside of the car. If it didn't fix it either way, we would presume it to be coming in via power or ground. 

i guess a dead simple way to test would be leave everything installed, wire your B+ and chassis ground to a completely different car and see what happens when you start your own engine. If it goes from silent with your car off but whines once you start your car then you'll know it is NOT coming in through B+ or ground and the interference is likely being introduced elsewhere, and only while your car is running.

I really do wonder about that underhood wiring though and whether an alternator power wire or one of the grounds might be catching some emf or rf interference.

Also pondering out loud here, but if he were to run an rca out of his head unit to an external system like another car or home stereo receiver, I really wonder if the head unit would also be sending out that same frequency. I mean, if the noise is coming in on b+ or chassis ground then the head unit might also be picking that up and repeating it. If it did it would make me think it's something else entirely and perhaps nothing to do with amp or speakers (assuming they were disconnected completely for testing)

...and since the head unit has been disconnected we haven't been talking about it, but if it went in at the same time as everything else maybe it's the HU itself that's dirtying up the cars electrical system somehow. Hu chassis touching metal, hu chassis not touching metal (lol) antenna short, internal issue. Worth consideration anyway.

I know the OP is against bandaids, but if it's the difference between tearing your hair out tracking this down (all the while listening to alternator whine) versus using a bandaid and letting it bug you in silence, maybe I'd cover that ouchie up and move on with my energy.

None of us are wrong though, just different methodologies I guess.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Just a thought. What happens if you pull out all the amps and processor and just run the speakers passive off the headunit?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Just a thought. What happens if you pull out all the amps and processor and just run the speakers passive off the headunit?




No idea that would take hours to rewire the headunit and speakers 


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Redliner99 said:


> No idea that would take hours to rewire the headunit and speakers
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Try with test speakers again, but this time use a long enough piece of speaker wire so you can move away from the car. I really don't think the noise was coming through all channels, only one, and that the actual engine noise is being mistaken for whine through the speakers.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

gijoe said:


> Try with test speakers again, but this time use a long enough piece of speaker wire so you can move away from the car. I really don't think the noise was coming through all channels, only one, and that the actual engine noise is being mistaken for whine through the speakers.




I will. 


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Not sure if it's been mentioned but have you considered ripping EVERYTHING out and starting the install over? BUT, start with rca's and speaker wires run OVER the seats for the time being. Noise is coming from somewhere. Starting over will let you track it down.


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

Redliner99 said:


> what would be a better ground location in a 12v system with a battery than the battery itself? If you read the thread I have progressively changed everything back to the way it was with no changes in the whine


Any bare metal point on the chassis or metal work of the car. The K-member. A frame bolt. Where does the negative battery cable ground to? Any frame rail. I get it, it's gets tougher to find on today's plastic cars. Hell, there's only about 3 good grounding spots on my Corvette because the whole body is fiberglass and carbon fiber. If there's no good ground...make one. Drill a hole and grind the paint down and install a ground lug. JL makes a good one. Car Audio - Power Connections - Master Ground Lug This might not fix your problem, but "grounding" to the battery isn't helping either.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

What kind of vehicle?

I assume there is only one battery?

Is the battery in the back of the vehicle, or up front in the usual place?

I know you tried another amp of the same type, have you tried a completely different amp?

Here's the power wiring method I use, not necessarily the only way but it works for me. Just information, you may have done all/some of this already:

1.) Wire alt chassis to frame (preferred) or chassis ground with short, high gauge wire. Sand or grind to metal first, paint after, etc.

2.) Wire batt - to frame/chassis ground similarly

3.) Wire amp - to frame/chassis ground similarly

4.) Wire alt + to batt + with high gauge wire of shortest possible length.

5.) Wire amp + as you normally would

Test. If there is noise, add an additional run in 1, 2 and 4 above and see if anything changes. If not, the charging wiring is probably OK, leave as is and proceed with troubleshooting.

Edit: order of steps, do grounds first.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Also, it might not be best to run the amp remote to batt + directly. Maybe put the deck in (without RCAs for now), and use its remote turn on to turn on the amp for the testing.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

GEM592 said:


> What kind of vehicle?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



2005 Honda pilot
Only one battery
Up front in stock location
I have tried a BRAND jl hd, an xd400/4 and slash 300/4
I have 2 runs of 4ga to amps for power, amps using 4ga ground of the same stinger pro wire all centrilazed in the rear of the car with the paint ground off. 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

GEM592 said:


> Also, it might not be best to run the amp remote to batt + directly. Maybe put the deck in (without RCAs for now), and use its remote turn on to turn on the amp for the testing.




I was just trying to rule things out on the day of trouble shooting 


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Redliner99 said:


> I was just trying to rule things out on the day of trouble shooting
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I get that. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the amp remote wire definitely can pick up noise, as you may already be aware of.

I remember when I first installed cooling fans, powered by my car's AUX. I ran their power wires down the passenger side, next to amp remote wires. I picked up "fan whine" in the speakers driven by those amps, rerouting the remote wires solved the problem.

So, if you're running a remote wire the length of the car somehow, it is a possible noise source, even when there are no signal connections.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

GEM592 said:


> I get that. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the amp remote wire definitely can pick up noise, as you may already be aware of.
> ...


I've mentioned that since around post 68/69 110 if not sooner. (Edit)
With the +, - and remote, there is a 33-1/3% chance 

If there are only three wires going that produce noise, it should be coming in one of them...


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Holmz said:


> I've mentioned that since around post 110 if not sooner.
> With the +, - and remote, there is a 33-1/3% chance
> 
> If there are only three wires going that produce noise, it should be coming in one of them...


I bet you did mention it and I just missed it.

I don't know how much it depends on the particular amp, with the ones I use the remote can capture a lot of noise if not used/installed right.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

GEM592 said:


> I bet you did mention it and I just missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how much it depends on the particular amp, with the ones I use the remote can capture a lot of noise if not used/installed right.




So to eliminate the remote wire if I ran a remote outside the car to the battery think that would suffice as enough evidence to rule that out?


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Redliner99 said:


> So to eliminate the remote wire if I ran a remote outside the car to the battery think that would suffice as enough evidence to rule that out?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't know, I'd rather see a unit that is designed to turn on your amp do that, rather than just taking the remote to the the battery when a noise issue is present. Don't hook up any RCAs or other signal cable yet, obviously.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> So to eliminate the remote wire if I ran a remote outside the car to the battery think that would suffice as enough evidence to rule that out?


Better is from the amp's + to the remote turn on, as that is the same +12V as the amp is seeing.
It gets no cleaner than that... (as dirty as it is).


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## DroogBC (Nov 15, 2018)

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/5658193-post11.html

No warranties expressed or implied.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

DroogBC said:


> https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/5658193-post11.html
> 
> No warranties expressed or implied.


If it is making the noise without the RCAs connected, then it seems easy enough to try that slick looking set up :mean:

However it seems like making the noise with no RCAs connected would not be affected by the addition of the rat's nest of copper.
But it may be worth a try to know for sure.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DroogBC said:


> https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/5658193-post11.html
> 
> 
> 
> No warranties expressed or implied.




I can't see the pic 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> So to eliminate the remote wire if I ran a remote outside the car to the battery think that would suffice as enough evidence to rule that out?


1) it can put that remote wire at the same source as the +12V starts from.
However the remote will be higher voltage if there is current flowing in the bigger wire.

2) The new wire creates a loop, which almost always is bigger with more enclosed areas unless that new wire is against the chassis/ground.

The combination of different voltage between the remote wire and the +12V, combined bigger loop area, is not what I would generally call "a well thought out trouble shooting approach".

A wire running a couple of inches from the +12V to the remote input has the sae evoltage, and there is not a 10-20 foot long loop... nor square meters of enclosed area.
This is a well thought out approach.

If it makes no difference to the noise, then it was not the main issue.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Hey bud, didn't know you were still on this issue. If it is your remote/ can issue you could always go a round about way to separate the remote. Get a LOC and utilize your speaker outs to create a remote from the DC offset. Yes, it does sound strange, but it may just be the work around that you need. A good LOC is designed specifically to remove noise and the remote line would be created right there w/ no way of looping. Just a thought. I use a JL Audio LOC-22 for my sub as I still require the factory head unit and wanted to use the factory sub control. I have attached a pic of the amp setup below so that you can see how small the little box is, but it is a thought. I don't get any distortion in my A3.

Sorry, I didn't know you were still fighting this thing.


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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

I've contacted two local priests that specialize in exorcism's.Only one is willing to come out and perform the ritual on that demon possessed vehicle.Do you want his number?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

jackal28 said:


> Hey bud, didn't know you were still on this issue. If it is your remote/ can issue you could always go a round about way to separate the remote. Get a LOC and utilize your speaker outs to create a remote from the DC offset. Yes, it does sound strange, but it may just be the work around that you need. A good LOC is designed specifically to remove noise and the remote line would be created right there w/ no way of looping. Just a thought. I use a JL Audio LOC-22 for my sub as I still require the factory head unit and wanted to use the factory sub control. I have attached a pic of the amp setup below so that you can see how small the little box is, but it is a thought. I don't get any distortion in my A3.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I didn't know you were still fighting this thing.




I don't think it's the remote line I have bypassed it 2 different ways and the noise is still there. I'm getting ready to tear the whole interior out again so we will see what I find 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

JH1973 said:


> I've contacted two local priests that specialize in exorcism's.Only one is willing to come out and perform the ritual on that demon possessed vehicle.Do you want his number?




Hahaha tell him to bring some gas and a lighter will be a good time 


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Make it go away...please make it go away.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

jackal28 said:


> Make it go away...please make it go away.




I'm to the point of willing to pay someone to fix it and I'm not usually willing to pay for too many things 


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Ok, so now the l ok long shot. It may just be the can bus signal in the car, unless of course it changes with the rev. The only thing left that I can think of is the signal that the alternator sings back to the ECU which tells the car that the alternators ON. There is a way to wire that cable into an ignition on fuse instead of the alternator.

Like I said, it's a long shot, but for more details on how to do this check out Mechman's site. If not, I may still have the instructions somewhere. I do believe the wire can be completely disconnected w/o the alternate splice, but w/o the splice the "dummy" battery light comes on.

Before doing anything make sure and check that your ecu/ ondII is communicating b4 and especially after. Trust me on this one. I'm still fighting an ECU communication issue and I cant find where. 

You're probably like me where you'll beat yourself to death and spend much more money than it would have cost to just let someone else touch your car. Sorry, I wish I had more options. Please let u ssd know if you ever find it. I think this one has stressed everyone's brain. Good luck and lt me know if there's anything I can do to help.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

jackal28 said:


> Ok, so now the l ok long shot. It may just be the can bus signal in the car, unless of course it changes with the rev. The only thing left that I can think of is the signal that the alternator sings back to the ECU which tells the car that the alternators ON. There is a way to wire that cable into an ignition on fuse instead of the alternator.
> 
> Like I said, it's a long shot, but for more details on how to do this check out Mechman's site. If not, I may still have the instructions somewhere. I do believe the wire can be completely disconnected w/o the alternate splice, but w/o the splice the "dummy" battery light comes on.
> 
> ...




Sadly my car isn't can bus. It does change with revs so I'm lost. I'm gonna the whole interior out and move stuff around and see what happens when it warms up here I hope I solve it it's driving me nuts 


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Redliner99 said:


> Sadly my car isn't can bus. It does change with revs so I'm lost. I'm gonna the whole interior out and move stuff around and see what happens when it warms up here I hope I solve it it's driving me nuts
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hopefully you can improve some of the grounding, if you're taking everything out anyhow, along the lines of what I and others have posted (don't go straight back to the battery, use short grounds to chassis/frame for everything as much as you can, etc.) 

I know you have tried a lot of this already and are fed up. My guess is, as perplexing as it seems to be, it is probably the old classic culprit ground in the charging circuit wiring.

I think you tried another alternator (not sure,) if the battery is old or at all suspect you might replace it at this point just because.


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## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

jackal28 said:


> You're probably like me where you'll beat yourself to death and spend much more money than it would have cost to just let someone else touch your car.


I can identify with this hardcore. And yes, keep us posted! So many people fix their noise issues without reporting back, which could potentially help someone else in the future.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

GEM592 said:


> Hopefully you can improve some of the grounding, if you're taking everything out anyhow, along the lines of what I and others have posted (don't go straight back to the battery, use short grounds to chassis/frame for everything as much as you can, etc.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Gonna move the grounds I guess. The battery is new. I was going back to the battery just to rule out bad grounds. 


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Cool, I also hope for a follow up ... just think of the frustration you might save someone else.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

GEM592 said:


> Cool, I also hope for a follow up ... just think of the frustration you might save someone else.




Jesus I hope I can this is beyond annoying 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

​


Redliner99 said:


> I'm to the point of willing to pay someone to fix it and I'm not usually willing to pay for too many things


I fly in on Sunday...
Start with the amp +/-/remote check and we can go from there.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Holmz said:


> I fly in on Sunday...
> Start with the amp +/-/remote check and we can go from there.


Well we fly out on the morrow, so I will keep watching your progress.
Best of luck with it.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Moved grounds back to where they were on the first install. Swapped left and right inputs on the amp and now I have narrowed down the whine to driver tweeter only. Gonna do more investigating tomorrow. 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Upon further looking the speaker wire that ran to the driver tweeter was causing the issue. Not sure how or why but when I pulled it out and ran it up the driver seat there was no whine. 


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Redliner99 said:


> Upon further looking the speaker wire that ran to the driver tweeter was causing the issue. Not sure how or why but when I pulled it out and ran it up the driver seat there was no whine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow...CONGRATS...you finally found it!!!

Did you look closely yet and see if you nicked the insulation anywhere??


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

seafish said:


> Wow...CONGRATS...you finally found it!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Did you look closely yet and see if you nicked the insulation anywhere??




I did find it but still don't feel like I won. I need to rerun speaker cable in its same spot and am worried it's going to happen again I had me and 2 other inspect the speaker wire and it looked perfect. So I'm still a bit confused 


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Can't reroute it ?? At least through the places NOT inside the wire loom??


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Redliner99 said:


> Upon further looking the speaker wire that ran to the driver tweeter was causing the issue. Not sure how or why but when I pulled it out and ran it up the driver seat there was no whine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, dude! Really happy to hear this!!!

What kind of wire is it, and how is it routed?? Can you posted pics? This will be any easy fix, I'm sure...


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

seafish said:


> Can't reroute it ?? At least through the places NOT inside the wire loom??




I'm gonna see only other place would be up the middle of the car just on the floor which isn't too tidy in my opinion 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

DavidRam said:


> Wow, dude! Really happy to hear this!!!
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of wire is it, and how is it routed?? Can you posted pics? This will be any easy fix, I'm sure...




I used stinger pro 12ga pulled all that out and using some 16ga . the 12ga was a pain to work with and was under the impression I need big ole stuff on the last install. I might be able to get some pics before work


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Duplicate.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

A structured troubleshooting approach is helpful.
Did you find the shorted speaker by visually looking, or by using a meter?
The method of how you found the problem is what is likely more important than the problem.

As it will help others with similar problems.

#68


Holmz said:


> The issue is generally caused by ground loops.
> 
> And a ground loop is most often created between the ground, and the RCAs... However the RCAs were disconnected.
> 
> ...



#120


Holmz said:


> Did you do something along the lines of what I mentioned in post #68?
> 
> When that speaker is out of the system, then the noise disappears?
> 
> Are those speaker wires twisted around each other all the way up to the speaker? And not tied to the ground on the - side?



#121


Redliner99 said:


> Tied to ground? Why would speaker be connected to anything but the amp?



These problems are easier to see from afar.
When they are ones's troubleshooting problems, it is harder to step back.

It was painful and hard to wait, knowing the problem. But the good news is it fixed now.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> A structured troubleshooting approach is helpful.
> 
> Did you find the shorted speaker by visually looking, or by using a meter?
> 
> ...




Do you actually read anything posted or just post to raise your count? 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Do you actually read anything posted or just post to raise your count?


I tried, but I was not sure if you pulled it and the noise went away, or if it was tested with a meter and you found a nick in the insulation.

It looks like you found the problem but the reason for the problem is still a mystery?



Redliner99 said:


> I did find it but still don't feel like I won. I need to rerun speaker cable in its same spot and am worried it's going to happen again I had me and 2 other inspect the speaker wire and it looked perfect. So I'm still a bit confused.



Well the good news is that you found it.
And it will help others to know "how" you found it.

Knowing whether the wire was nicked and shorted to ground, or picking up something coupling into it from a wire that ran along side it... would turn this into more of a home run.

You pretty close to getting the reason (And the how) for what happened now. Without that it makes putting in a new wire more like magic??

(In am assuming it was nicked and a grommet or someway to smooth an edge somewhere is what is needed???)


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## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

hmm. I too want to know what actually was happening.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

thornygravy said:


> hmm. I too want to know what actually was happening.




You and me both. I was 100% the line going to JUST the driver tweeter 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> You and me both. I was 100% the line going to JUST the driver tweeter


Check the resistance from tweeter's + & - terminals to the tweeter's frame.

(If the negative was grounded to the frame it would explain everything.
It could still be capacitively coupled, which would also explain everything... but it is less likely.)


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Check the resistance from tweeter's + & - terminals to the tweeter's frame.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why would both tweeters do it just in the driver side?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Why would both tweeters do it just in the driver side?


Well that points back to the wiring then.

It was worth mentioning, but as you already effectively ruled out the speaker.
(Good job)


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

What happens when you run a new wire from the amp to the driver's side?

Even just across the seats...

Does noise get abated?

And did you ever do a DMM resistance measurement on the wires?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> What happens when you run a new wire from the amp to the driver's side?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Jesus man post 264. Please don't post unless you can read previous post your clogging up 3 of my threads with useless BS now 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

thornygravy said:


> hmm. I too want to know what actually was happening.





Redliner99 said:


> You and me both. I was 100% the line going to JUST the driver tweeter



With me, "the curious" number at least three.




Redliner99 said:


> Jesus man post 264. Please don't post unless you can read previous post your clogging up 3 of my threads with useless BS now


It's doubtful that I am the only one that is interested in your noise.
But it must be useless input as the noise is still there... you got me with the evidence... And I am not going to say, "I am sorry you feel that way"... 

It has been going on for literally "a 1/2 year", with everything from exorcism to torching the vehicle considered.

You are to the point now where there is not much left on the path to the tweeter... you should be able to fix it quickly now that the weather is warming.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Did you get it sorted out sir?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Did you get it sorted out sir?




Post 264. Haven't gotten the new set up running yet but rerouted wires. 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Post 264. Haven't gotten the new set up running yet but rerouted wires.


My friends in Colorado say it's been getting cold, so hopefully you've made some progress??


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Holmz said:


> My friends in Colorado say it's been getting cold, so hopefully you've made some progress??




The whole system has been redone for months now still there but not as loud. Don't care anymore 


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> The whole system has been redone for months now still there but not as loud. Don't care anymore


That is too bad. A lot of people have similar woes with noise, and I was hoping for you thread to offer some hope and strategies for those folk.

Anyhow my workmate is in Co and had to buy a jacket... he said it is f'in cold.
So I thought Redliner is in Co.

Take care.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

If they read this thread it should give them just about every way they can rule it out. Yes it's cold here was 6 degrees on my drive home a few nights ago 


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