# Blackhole sound deadning



## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Went to local store and they were pushing this pretty hard. I cant find much about it online and wanted to know if anyone used it. Their website isnt really that good, but I assume what I was looking at is the Five product. He was showing me these large square cubes that he says they stick all over the back side of doors and get great results. The cubes looked huge (about 3 inches tall) and I wondering how they really work. One website thought they had something to do with Focal, which may be true as the shop is now a Focal dealer.


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## BARTMAN (Feb 26, 2009)

My daughter has this in her doors and they sound great. You can go to ORCA Design & Manufacturing to look at them.


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## Just_Crazy (Nov 10, 2008)

is blackhole comparable to luxury liner from second skin?


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## BARTMAN (Feb 26, 2009)

sorry wrong link this one is correct. Orca Mobile - Home


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## BARTMAN (Feb 26, 2009)

We put the Black hole foil on the doors and then put the tile over that in a checker board layout seem to work great.


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

Just_Crazy said:


> is blackhole comparable to luxury liner from second skin?


Nope.. Similar, but not designed for the same reason at all.
BH5 was designed to go in side cabinets to improve the driver performance.
Eventually people started using it in car doors (which does help) and so it started getting marketed that way.

Luxury Liner Pro is a mass loaded vinyl barrier, decoupled with a closed cell foam layer. Thi sis designed to reduce the transmission of airborne soundwaves.
Hope that helps!


ANT


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## Leadfoot100 (Nov 9, 2009)

Jroo said:


> Went to local store and they were pushing this pretty hard. I cant find much about it online and wanted to know if anyone used it. Their website isnt really that good, but I assume what I was looking at is the Five product. He was showing me these large square cubes that he says they stick all over the back side of doors and get great results. The cubes looked huge (about 3 inches tall) and I wondering how they really work. One website thought they had something to do with Focal, which may be true as the shop is now a Focal dealer.


you went to AE didnt you? Which location did you go to? I bet i could even guess who you spoke with lol.
I can vouch for the Blackhole product, WITH the exception of the price. for the same price you can do 3 layers of dynamat on your doors lol.
BUT like said before, blackhole is designed for a completely different reason. It IS NOT solely a resonant damping material for panels and what not. It does have a thin layer for that purpose, but it is really designed to improve the characteristics and abilities of the speakers you choose.
if you have the money, and your doing speakers on the upper high end range, do the blackhole along with a little bit of dynamat.
it will blow your mind (provided you also have a good source, and power)


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

So are you literrally sticking the black hole 5 over the dynamat? I am dynamating the front doors. Am I placing the 5 behind where a speaker would be(ex. my midbass in the doors)? My other concern is size. I looked at the places that I would try to use it seems that it would have hit the widow. I guess I dont really understand how this would be applied. BTW, West Broad AE.


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## Leadfoot100 (Nov 9, 2009)

Jroo said:


> *I am dynamating the front doors. Am I placing the 5 behind where a speaker would be(ex. my midbass in the doors)?* My other concern is size. I looked at the places that I would try to use it seems that it would have hit the widow. I guess I dont really understand how this would be applied. BTW, West Broad AE.


exactly,
depending on how much you buy, I used a whole box on 4 doors, but i've also seen a whole box used on 2 doors of a Porsche (which by the way was retarted good sounding). I put it on the outer skin of the door (other side of the window) there is usually enough room there, and you can space out the blocks a little to kind of fill in the rest of the door cavity. if you combine it with dynamat like your saying, your doors will be dead to the world and sort of turn into speaker cabinets rather than just a place to put a speaker.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

BARTMAN said:


> We put the Black hole foil on the doors and then put the tile over that in a checker board layout seem to work great.


What worked great(What specific issues were resolved?)?


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

Leadfoot100 said:


> exactly,
> depending on how much you buy, I used a whole box on 4 doors, but i've also seen a whole box used on 2 doors of a Porsche (which by the way was retarted good sounding). I put it on the outer skin of the door (other side of the window) there is usually enough room there, and you can space out the blocks a little to kind of fill in the rest of the door cavity. if you combine it with dynamat like your saying, your doors will be dead to the world and sort of turn into speaker cabinets rather than just a place to put a speaker.


So adding the magic foam turns your doors into speaker cabinets?

Any more info beyond "it sounds good"? What makes it good?


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## BARTMAN (Feb 26, 2009)

Megalomaniac said:


> What worked great(What specific issues were resolved?)?


I am kinda new to the SQ world so I don't have allot to compare to. All this was done at the time of the install so I don't have a before and after. But my other car has the same speakers in it with out the Tiles and it does not have neat the low end that the doors that have the tiles. I don't know if that helps or not.


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## Leadfoot100 (Nov 9, 2009)

el_chupo_ said:


> So adding the magic foam turns your doors into speaker cabinets?
> 
> Any more info beyond "it sounds good"? What makes it good?


it doesnt "turn into a speaker cabinet" and i didnt really mean for what i said to sound like that. it creates that effect. put it this way, it seems to tighten up the mids and lows, increase bass accuracy, less sound is absorbed by the door cavity, and of course deadens the door a lot but thats something dynamat can help too. this is also fairly light weight in comparison to its size. 

edit: i left out that it helps the mids and lows really excel and almost amplify with an accurate and powerful driver.


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## GregU (Dec 24, 2008)

Leadfoot100 said:


> you went to AE didnt you?


What do you mean by AE?


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## Leadfoot100 (Nov 9, 2009)

It's a local chain of stores here in Va called audio express


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## GregU (Dec 24, 2008)

Leadfoot100 said:


> It's a local chain of stores here in Va called audio express


That's what I was wondering. Reason I asked is because I work for a company, the same corporation that owns AE. Interesting......wasn't aware that we were carrying black hole at AE.


EDIT: 2 different AE's, didn't know there store that you were talking about was in Va.


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## Leadfoot100 (Nov 9, 2009)

Theres an audio express in texas too? damn.
there's an AE in Arizona as well that just so happens to own the website audioexpress.com and i used to be confused with it and the stores here in VA.


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## GregU (Dec 24, 2008)

Leadfoot100 said:


> Theres an audio express in texas too? damn.
> there's an AE in Arizona as well that just so happens to own the website audioexpress.com and i used to be confused with it and the stores here in VA.


Mobile One is Texas, but is owned by the same corporation that owns Audio Express and Quality Auto Sound and a couple of others. Same stores and products, different name.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I smell marketing.

There's an AE in Russelville, AR and Conway, AR as well...probably more.


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## Skwisgaar (May 26, 2010)

I am interested in using Blackhole 5 for the interior of a subwoofer enclosure. I'd like to know if Blackhole 5 can be used as a substitute for polyfill or is it a complement for polyfill? I'd like to kill the backwave without mucking with fiberglass if I can help it.


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## CraigMBA (Nov 19, 2010)

The only problem doing that is BH5 displaces enclosure volume. Unless you are able to size up the enclosure up to account for the additional displacement of the BH5, whatever problems with backwave you're trying to fix are going to be worse.

Both Deflex panels and BH5 do a good job of absorbing backwave on midbass drivers.


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## Skwisgaar (May 26, 2010)

CraigMBA said:


> The only problem doing that is BH5 displaces enclosure volume.


Polyurethane foam or fiberglass increase the effective volume of the enclosure. BH5 is a little more complicated than that, because it has MLV and butyl rubber layers, but I would assume it has the same effect. It is also, from what I've read, more low frequency specific.


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## CraigMBA (Nov 19, 2010)

Skwisgaar said:


> Polyurethane foam or fiberglass increase the effective volume of the enclosure. BH5 is a little more complicated than that, because it has MLV and butyl rubber layers, but I would assume it has the same effect. It is also, from what I've read, more low frequency specific.


No, it doesn't. Anything you add to a given closed volume will reduce its volume. There is an old (false) theory that loosely stuffed boxes "acted" like a larger enclosure because the back wave has to 'travel' through more material, making them "seem" larger. Problem is, they don't measure any larger - in fact, the more you stuff them the more they measure like a smaller enclosure.

And that doesn't mean your box won't sound better with some sort of damping installed! Absorption is a totally useful tool in certain acoustic environments, such as the rockwool filled treatments I used on the walls of my home theater. The value of the deflex panels is they have minimum volume displacement and maximum absorptive capacity.

My point was/is no amount of stuffing will solve insufficient box size, and no amount of box size will solve absorbing the back wave. If your enclosure is on the borderline of being too small (which happens, like, all the time in an automotive environment) you may cause another problem with the absorbing material, but it may still be worth the tradeoff.


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## Skwisgaar (May 26, 2010)

CraigMBA said:


> No, it doesn't.


Sorry, I've got Bassbox Pro to contradict you. I don't think you know what you are talking about at all and I'm not going to listen to you.


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## cheesehead (Mar 20, 2007)

^^^^^:laugh::bash::speechless:


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## CraigMBA (Nov 19, 2010)

Skwisgaar said:


> Sorry, I've got Bassbox Pro to contradict you. I don't think you know what you are talking about at all and I'm not going to listen to you.


Certainly, you shouldn't take my word for it. But you shouldn't take your box software as gospel either.

I find discussions on this topic this always boil down to two camps

1. My modeling software says X so that has to be true!
2. Did you verify the results from your modeling software?

You should build a box, measure it with your RTA (unstuffed), stuff it and then re-measure. Then add more stuffing and measure it again. You could then write an article about it and post it here. And if that's to much trouble, at least think about it this way - 

If what you are claiming is true, why bother to size the box at all? Just put the speaker in the smallest enclosure possible and make up for whatever you are undersized by adding polyfill? 

And if that is so, why is it so? Is polyfill a magical substance that defies the laws of physics (increasing the displacement of a given volume by it's own displacement) and IF it works, why not use bricks or concrete instead (they would also reduce displacement)? 

And if that is true, could you use polyfill in applications -like in your gas tank to add capacity?


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

CraigMBA said:


> And if that is true, could you use polyfill in applications -like in your gas tank to add capacity?


And if that is true, The man has just solved the US' dependency on foreign oil. 

LOGIC


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