# MB Quart expert



## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

So does anyone know how to breakdown the different series?

CX
RCE
PCE
PCB
ESA
QM
QSD
ESA
DKC
WTF!

Can anyone make any distinctive sense of this?

I downloaded manuals, and its not possible for me to tell which is meant to be a "better" line vs the others. 

I know the CX is likely the older/oldest line?, or RCE and QM, but this thing needs a tutorial! I know some stand for "Reference", "Premium", etc, but whats makes reference different from Premium, and which are they trying to say is using better components to be "better" ?

Anyone know this stuff to clarify!?


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Does the response of no one resonate the age demographic on this forum? 25 or younger perhaps? C'mon!


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

I used to know, but it's been to long ago.

I do know that the Q series was their top line.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Is that QM, or QSD


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The QM and QSD were both the top but from different time frames. Then you have the Premiums, so a PSD, PSC, etc. Under that is the Reference line, RSD, RSC, etc. Then the Discus line (DKC, etc), then the CX. I can't help you won't the ESA. 


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Ok, this is getting a bit more clear. So what are the aprox dates on these? 

At least which is newer or older, in some order.

QM was the older and the QSD is the newer stuff.
PSB

CX were the older ones, but these also sounded very good. Where does the RCE fall in, and how were these in the line up...at least date? 

Which line and when/year did MB Quart start going "meh", to sucking?


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

How is the RCE line, in particular the RCE269 ? Was thinking of using it in my car. Also have a set of CX series. Will these play well together? I would think they will sound matched, but not sure.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Other than the QMs, they're all from the same time period, the mid-90s to early 2000s.

They will all play together fine. You don't have to have drivers from the same time period or family to get everythign working well together.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

Go on the web site and look at the MSRP. The higher the MSRP, the more better hehe


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

They dont have all those models. they just have current...But I'll check again


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

thanks to you and the LSU rear! I know the CX were early, and oddly I thought the QM was around that time, but the QSD being more current/?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

That is the reference model. very nice speakers with a 3/4" tweeter and higher crossover frequency

goes lower end

then reference (your set)
then premium
then q line (qsd more recent)

then they went to widespere tweets and if you can find them when they were still made in germany, you have the exact same as german maestro speakers. After that, maxsonics took over.

the premium and q line used the same tweeters (6 ohm 25 mm). The ref used a 19mm tweeter. The ref are good speakers. I just prefer the tweeter in the q and premium series. Also, the p and q series passive crossover at around 2.5k and ref around 5 k due to higher tweeter fs.

meh is when they stopped being built in germany and became maxsonics. Real MB Quart became German Maestro at that time. 


poly cones and metal domes will work well from all their german made series.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Ding Ding Ding...we have a winner! A certified MBQuart expert 
thanks...this was starting to become a mystery!

I have the RCE's(6x9) and the CX(6.5)
I was looking to put these in, or getting 3-way for upfront and putting the 6x9s in rear doors.

My concern is about drop in vocal or sound loss between crossing the tweets to the 6x9's. The box nor instructions mention the xover points.

Would a 4" in a 3way setup make a noticeable enough difference... Enough to go 3way upfront make couple extra holes, and update amp config, put the 6x9 in rear ?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

a 2 way with a 6x9 and a tweet crossed over at 5k isnt optimal but you should try it first before scrapping it. Putting a 2-3" midrange may help it but you would need to grab the proper passive or a dsp. Cant really tell untill its in there but a 2 way with a 6x9 can work.

Try it out first and see how you like it. I installed the reference 6.5 set in my friends gti and it sounded very nice. Wont be much of a difference except greater midbass. Just keep the tweeter at -6 (or - the most on the passive)

no problem mixing and matching stuff from the same era.

maybe the 6x9 and these may be a solid setup

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MB-QUART-Re...607?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae389f707

try what you have first


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

The Highlander is a big interior car, so I was looking to do the 2way 6.5CX in the rear, OR IF doing the 3way upfront, putting the 6x9RCE in rear.

So I have 2...matter of seeing if I should get the 3rd set (3way), if worth it. But...
You are right...it wouldn't be hard to swap out...besides if I dont have the 3 way to compare and listen too, I might not miss anything


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Then I will need someone to build a resin box. Is that something people do on this forum..take orders on a model, make the box and ship/? with good reputation, I have seen this done via other car forums.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

to get a fiberglass box you usually have to get it done by a shop unless your car has a JL audio stealthbox or is a common car like a civic that has prefab fiberglass enclosures made and readily available. What car model and year?


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

No, it doesn't, but one of the VW owners (when I had a VW) made a box for someone by measuring another owners car, and borrowing it for fitment. Toyota Highlander '14 is pretty common. Pix, and a close dealership can also come handy  This was over 10 years ago.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Wicked C.A.S.Â*::Â*MAGIC BOXESÂ*::Â*ToyotaÂ*::Â*Toyota - 08+ Highlander 8" Sub box Subwoofer enclosure

a single 8" will fill out the lows, not sure how much output you want. May want to see depth in that enclosure as it doesnt seem mentioned. They do offer it with a jl w3 so it doesnt have to be a shallow sub which is good. If you can fit a jl 8 w7 in there, youd be set IMO.

I had a single hidden 8 in my suv. Still do. Wanted a little bit more output so its not hooked up now but for a very long time, it was sufficient with a tc epic and ground zero hydrogen 8. Audiomobile elite 8" and Sundown Sd-8 would be a good choice too.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

That is a bit different model, as the 14's are redesign, but they might make it at some point. I do have a old Infinity dualVC 10" Perfect M3D sub I'd like to use. I hardly had it in my VW years back when I did use it, and after a few months I realized I need the trunk space, so its brand new in a little box(likely not the right cu ft box).


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

looks like I can get the QM series/ PWE 160 (made in German) 3way for a pretty nice deal. I need to know how old these are.

Were these the good stuff? what years were these made in? 

I know the older ones were stamped with info on the plastic(at least cx). Newer ones had the grey/silver sticker over magnet.

btw, I do appreciate all the inputs. Thank you!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

MB Quart Info Archive

yep those are good sets

the qm and qsd only changes are a coating on the mids and crossover cosmetics. I dont think there was a dramatic improvement from the qm and qsd sets and have run both


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The QSCs were the first QS models after the QMs. The QSDs were after the QSCs by a year or two. The crossover changed with the QSDs and the tweeter changed with the QSCs and was, IMO, MUCH improved over the QM tweeter. 


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Were they all QM, QSC QSD pre-Maxxsonic?

I have the RCE 6x9 separates for front, but need rears, and all I have available to me are the QM, QSC, QSD 216(6.5"+tweet) series for rear doors....

Will my front RCE6x9 sound less than the Q's 6.5 in rear? ...will the rears sound noticeably more detailed? If I could fit the 6x9 in rear I likely should/would, but I don't think I can. 

It maybe best to find another rce set.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

yeah they were. Any metal dome q line is made in germany. Just the current qsds are not.

I didnt think you had a q set.

Use the qsd216 if you have them up front without question. One of my fav sets.

I and a lot of others dont run rear fill in a basic system(non 5.1) and if we do, its usually for passengers and very low priority. Usually cheap are fine My rears are stock and ran off deck power. Hardly ever on. All your best should go up front.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I don't have it, but what I see available from a couple sellers.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Yes, but in a large cavernous HLander, and with kids, fade front to back is used often.

I should likely get the coax...and be done with it! no door hole, no xover install...easy peasy. I hope it doesn't get craving loader sound ...Well without my sub, its possible. After a little time and when the sub is in, it wont be much an issue.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

really, put the qsds up front. Or any q line. And for the rears, any lower end mbq set coaxial for ease. Most of the ref and some premium were coaxial or component (convertible). You want the sound up front when no one is in the rear. 

I have a suv too. I still dont use rears. If you have the old cx, those are fine as rears. If you are going to get a set, get the qsd216 for up front. Use what you have for the rear. Focus on getting the qsds or qscs up front. . Your ref 6x9 set would be a great choice to run in coaxial config in rears and if you can fit the 6x9s back there, it would help with bass until the inevitable subwoofer comes along.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

All super accurate...but using the 6x9 as coax I forgot about!
..all sitting on "if the 6x9 fit in rear doors"!

I thought there was a site that installers use, like 12volt or something that shows all current cars and space configs? My rears factory call for a 6.5"


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

do you have a set of 6.5" mb quarts for the rear of any model?


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

no...thats why I was contemplating between the RCE, and Q series


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

You are in my head now!! hehe


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I missed a chance on a nice 3 way set last week(6.5/4/tweet), and today I missed the RCE6.5 2 way set


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

But, really glad you mentioned on the config of how I can use the 6x9s as the dust cap comes off and you slip on the tweets.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

But the QSD's, from what I see are the ones with big logos on the woofer and such...After the brand and quality was tanking...so I think I need the QM or just Q(?), or RCE, PCE


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Any difference between the CX and RCE that I should know and consider?

RCE less than $250, CX $170 (6.5"comps)
or a 3 way CX for the $350


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

these are the qsd216. These are what you should get up front if an option










these are the qm 218.61Q, also a good set for up front










for the rears, a 6.5 coaxial will be fine.

they have these on ebay but lill too expensive

Brand New RARE MB Quart RCE 216 6 5&apos; Reference Component System 043937664389 | eBay

these would work well

German Maestro AC 6508 6 5" 2 Way Coaxial MB Quart | eBay

keep your eye out, I just sold some old mb quart 6.5 coaxials on here last week. Should be able to find them around $100.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I cant buy anything here as I cant seam to post in the selling threads (like the JBL MS-8 thread)

I already have the 6x9 brand new. SO they are best in rear if they fit..I think with a baffle I can clear 3.25"


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I dont have much expereince with the newer QSD...but I have heard they dont sound as accurate as the older sets.

The 218.61Q are way too pricy. I just passed up on 3 occasions RCE216 sets from different sellers for under $160shipped...(sold auctions). 4th set for $189


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

You dont want these. These are not actual mb quart, these are maxxsonics and not same caliber. 










Id say just try the ref 6x9s up front and give them a go. Keep you eyes out for german q or premium sets on ebay and the forum.

youll find some OS mb 6.5 coaxials easily. Even old discuss line is ok for rears.

Or look into german maestro (current (real) MB quart)


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

if someone has some for sale and you want me to message them to reach out to you just provide the link


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I will find out in a couple days if the 6x9s fir in rear door. Then I will get a 6.5 RCE, RCE, Q, QM, CX, or 3way in these series(where aplicable) set for fronts.

But I do think MBQuart did degrade, even during "made in Germany".

Since I'm getting them installed, I am doing my best to get it right the first time. Hence all this detail scrutiny on something in the large scope of things is likely no big deal...If I were doing it and easily swap things around 

I do greatly appreciate the dialogue, and will continue to post here, and when done will update some result/impressions.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

thank you for that....I'm still learning my way around it...and last time it took me to another caraudio.org classified site. so if there is a specific link please send...but I think that car audio site I was able to look 7 times(???) weird stuff...I guess they are not linked as it forces me to sign up if I want to view further.

THANK YOU


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I liked the qsd's a lot but my favorite tweeter from them was the widespere ones that they made right before they were bought out and are still put out under german maestro.

I sold these a while ago. I kept a set for myself. The tweeter is I think MB Quart's best and is the same one currently in german maestro's stratus line

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...-quart-pvf-216-aka-german-maestro-sv6509.html

if you can find a set of these, Id hop on them.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I'll check those Meastro's out...I see a few coax's
I was looking to get int touch regarding this JBL...

jbl ms8


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I just realized how to post there 

Wow , you had quite the gear


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

If I remember correctly, the D versions were the last pre-Maxxsonics versions and the E's were the first post-buyout versions. Granted, until all the original engineers left and production moved out of Germany it didn't affect things TOO much, but I'd either want D-series or older or German Maestro drivers. 


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

tyroneshoes said:


> I liked the qsd's a lot but my favorite tweeter from them was the widespere ones that they made right before they were bought out and are still put out under german maestro.
> 
> I sold these a while ago. I kept a set for myself. The tweeter is I think MB Quart's best and is the same one currently in german maestro's stratus line
> 
> ...



I thought all widesphere was post-buyout but before the original engineering staff left and production moved out of Germany. 


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

What models fall under D vs models under E ?

Rce, pce are post buy out?
I don't know a D , only on the Q line it's QSD

Maybe someone can copy and paste the list of models, add any I missed, then note the apron year and if it was pre what ever may have made a difference. Would take a couple minutes for someone who knows...maybe a couple spot checks, and we have a reference chart!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> I thought all widesphere was post-buyout but before the original engineering staff left and production moved out of Germany.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not, completely. For a while, they were selling the same exact sets as current GM under the MB Quart line. Although maxxsonics bought them out, they were still being made in germany for a while all engineered by the original MB Quart staff. The set I linked and these 

MB Quart QSF 216 Nano Product Ratings And Reviews at OnlineCarStereo.com










these took over the qsd and they brought it over to GM as the new M-line unchanged. There was an era where although maxxsonics took over, quality was still improving, still german made, and eventually the last true MB sets were available. Once they ran out of the stock, maxxsonics took over and the engineers moved to GM and maxxsonix MB still made widespheres but they were completely different than the german made versions. Just looked similar cosmeticly. But you can find MB quart models like the one I linked which are 100% the same as current GM offerings.

Post maxxsonics, still german made. Short era. Same as GM stratus


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> What models fall under D vs models under E ?
> 
> Rce, pce are post buy out?
> I don't know a D , only on the Q line it's QSD
> ...


d= qsd

rce and pce are pre buyout and change of engineering. The ones I posted are post buyout but still high quality german made by same staff. Not very common to find but they turn up periodically for a great price.

Basicly, if it says made in germany, youre good.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

thanks for that clarity


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

How do the CX's compare to RCE , PCE, or Q?

I think this was around the time when Q was the top and CX was maybe just below?
Maybe it is the same as the RCE or PCE?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

not 100% on that one but I wouldnt purchase cx series. If you already had them, then yeah, use them. Otherwise Id pass until the q, premium or matching ref comes up.

Mean time hook up your ref 6x9 comp set up front and keep you eyes peeled or make a wanted post. OS Mb Quart comes up often.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

thanks Ty! good advice!
I missed the 3 different sellers with pce216/Prem's 6.5"'s sold last week for $160, 190, 200

there are a couple 
Prem..213(5.25"/$200), a 216 that has 1 woofer and 1 tweet abused
Ref.... 268(6x8/$190), and then 213 (5.25"/$190)
I either 
wait for Prem in 268(6x8), 216(6.5").... 
or get the Ref 268(6x8)


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Update on my rear door space of the Highlander:

I opened up the rear door panel and a 6x9 does fit int he opening. It does need som 1.25" or a bit more adapters made, but it does fit. Even the stock baffle for the 6.5" was about 1.25 thick, so I now the panel will close on it.

I have seen some nice 3way in the 8"/5.25"/1"tweet setup, but there is no way I can fit a 5.25" in the dash corners. Not even on the door. In the dash now is a 3" stock speaker, but its a shallow spot and not wide enough for 5.25".

This means I would end up going with a 6.5"/4"/1"tweet 3way.
BUT, the 6.5" would be in the door, the 4" would be a chunk distance away up against the windshield on the dash reflective off the glass, while I can place the tweeter in the door up higher, or on the door mirror sail/triangle cover.

Doesn't the spread of the speakers, particularly the 4" mid being about 2feet from the 6.5" and tweet make for BAD imaging?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

nope the ms8 will help with tuning it all up.

Consider this.

use the 6x9 as the midbass (mbused to make shallow 8s too)

then a 4" comp set from q or premium line.

For the rears, you can use tons of woofers to pair up with the ref set even using the passive.

or make an offer on these

MB Quart Premium PSD216 and PSD213 Speakers | eBay

maybe just grab these for the rear and try a 2 way with q/ premium tweets and xovers and ref 6x9.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MB-Quart-DK...313?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41817ca6f9

these have the same tweets as ref series.

OR

If you want them, I can sell you my german widespere set I linked earlier but theyre 5.25s. Use those tweeters and passives and the ref 6x9 woofers for a solid 2 way up front and the tweets and crossovers from the ref set with my 5.25 mids in rear.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I'm all ears Tyrone, and I was looking at that 1st set you linked. 

I will have no woofers for a while, and if I cant do it in a cost and clean manner, I will just be running the 4 way, hence my move toward the 6x9's. But in a later time I plan to get a single 10" in cargo side pocket area made in resin. (if thats what you were referring to )

How do you mean "then a 4" comp set"?
How do I integrate that? It may fit, but I would need 3way xovers. 

I was thinking of getting the PSD216 for front and putting the ref6x9 I have in rear. 

For your second senario, where do I get q/prem tweets? and why?(when the ref269 came with a set ?


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

ideally, I want a 3way in front. just that the dash size is limited to about 4" max(i think? here it is...)










I need to take that out and measure to see if 4" fits. I was hoping not to need to do that!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

the tweets that came with the q and premium set were better tweets. Could be crossed over lower and just very nice and crisp sounding. 

So the p and q crossovers used a 2.5 -3k crossover point and the ref used a 5k point on their passives. with a 6x9 thats high and a lot to ask from a 6x9. You want as close to 2-2.5k as possible. You also have the option of full active if you have a dsp rendering the passives unnecessary.

My suggestion is if you bought my 5.25 set that I posted earlier. Use those tweets and the premium passives it came with and pair it with the 6x9 woofers you have. 

then in the rear, you can use numerous woofers to match up with the mb quart ref passive and tweets. They just need to be 4 ohm. The mb quart woofers were nothing special. Jst worked well as a whole. I used my mb quart (widespere) tweets with Image dynamics xs6x9 woofers and it sounded great with an active xover at 2.5 @ 24 db

but if you are set on a 3 way, keep lookin and the ref tweets will be fine as 5k is not an issue with a 3 way. BTW, looks like you can chop that plastic and make it fit with a dremel.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Which one between these 2?

MB Quart PSC 316 Car Speaker | eBay

MB Quart Premium PSD216 and PSD213 Speakers | eBay


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

THat makes more sense...How much were your set?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Id sell them for 250 what is pretty much what I paid. The only thing I took out of the box was the tweets.

That first link was the ref speakers mislabeled as premium (see the r on model on magnet)

the second set are actual premium set. (starts with p on magnet) However, it is missing the 3 way passive and provides two 2 ways which isnt a match for the drivers. Also, no hardware so tweets would have to be hidden.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

i noticed that!

But baskets are imprinted QM


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

$259 for using the tweets is not in my budget. sorry. but with the ref tweets, It has jumpers -6db, I should be able to pull them back, or adjust with the ms8..Or worst case situation have an additional filter on it(Not sure if I would really go through all that trouble)


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Here is another, but the buy is not in my budget.

MB Quart QSD 210 164 3 Way 4" 6 5" Car Speaker System | eBay


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Yeah, youd probably be fine with just using the ref 6x9 set up front and those 6x9 discus coaxials in rear (same tweets and woofer material as rce so excellent match). Im just projecting what Id do on to you. The ms8 (if thats what you got) will do a pretty good job of taming and tuning it. Then if you still want, add a 3-4 inch driver on the dash later down the line. The ms8 can power it fine. But thats probably what Id do considering the cost of these incomplete 3 ways on ebay.

3 way qsd sets still carry value. Theyre expensive. Put a google alert for premium 216 sets esp pvf-216 or just the 25 mm 6 ohm tweets used by those sets. Ive seen them go cheap.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I don't want to get a Discus for rear. Now that the 6x9 fits in rear, Im looking to improve the options for the front.

So the ideal is a 3way in front if a DSP will tame it right....
(which maybe the Premium line)
Or as you also suggested a 2way using the Q line
(which maybe the Q or Premium line)

I just don't want to go 2 way in front then wish I had gone 3 way. 

I don't have a DSP yet, but was looking at a MS*, or a DEQ8, or DQxx..etc Thats another thread I have and a ball of wax!!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Ok, thats a good plan. The ref 6x9 in the rear and keep searching for that 3 way premium or an affordable q line (2 way would serve you fine with a 6.5 q line with no 3 way regret, I promise). The options you have now arent great. Maybe a wanted ad in the classifieds could help.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Geez...choices...
Which 2 do I narrow things down to?!

MB Quart PSC 316 Car Speaker | eBay

MB Quart Premium PSD216 and PSD213 Speakers | eBay
(this one is not a set)

MB Quart Q Series QM 218 61 Q Vintage Old School Car Audio | eBay

MB Quart QSD 210 164 3 Way 4" 6 5" Car Speaker System | eBay

MB Quart QSD 210 164 3 Way 4" 6 5" Car Speaker System | eBay


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

OK....I will see how I can post that, as I just see 1 Q 2way, and its not in my price range, I already put offered/declined.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Well the ref guy removed his listing because it was mislabeled. But looking at those sets with wrong crossovers and no tweeter mounting hardware, Id wait it out until something comes along.

Just so you know, I sold my qsd216 for 275 with all hardware and my QM set went for 180 (same set on ebay). So deals pop up. Just need to be patient and actively post wanted ads.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

OK. 
I really appreciate this feedback. I think I'd end up breaking windows or jumping off a building thinking about all this...

And I still have to learn about DSP's!!! and how they work!! and how NOT to buy one over $300, and how I can get away with just a 5 or 6 ch as the MBQuart passive xovers are the preferred way to run them(according to another adviser).

Dude, I used to be into this stuff so much! but too much has changed!!  in a good way i guess...just need to catch up!


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I bi amped my qsds and my amp has active crossovers. Just had better results with less effort that way. These are good passives.










So for the rears, Id def use the passives to open up space for your fronts. The ms8 has an amp built in too that could power rears fine. Id also lean towards the ms8 for the auto tune unless you want to get into the complex world of fine tuning with dsps.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

wow, you have the xovers under the seats! never seen that. I would like to Bi amp them as well. With 4ch amp, I would have to rely on the MS8 18 wats on a 130RMS 2 way


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Nice your amp has some active xovers. I doubt my 4300x does. I think it might have a LP HP, and thats it..I have to take a look and see.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Do you have a picture of your amps xover side?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

true, but I dont value rears as much as you (I dont use them). Also the ms8 adds processing to your rears that doesnt result in needing a lot of power. Amps are tiny, Youll be able to fit a mono amp anywhere and bi amp your mbqs on your mtx and maybe add a lil ppi 900.4 on a bridged sub and rears to give 150x2 + 500x1 later down.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> Do you have a picture of your amps xover side?


They were amps with built in digital dsp. PEQ each channel, crossovers, time alignment. 

Have a digital read out and adjusted everything from the knob on the amp (like the jbl ms amps but with more options)

details on them here

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ll-gallery/39453-install-kenwood-x4r-x1r.html

what they look like under the cover.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

What a nice amp, and I had given up on Kenwoods ...Not the good old days of 858's!  but they have some good stuff still..just sometimes hard to weed out the crap.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

(oops, This is the thread for this Q)

BTW, am I doing the right thing running these xovers via the 3603 vs the ones MBQ made?
I mean these things are some piece of work!! They are massive! I can fit them, if need be, but I think they put so much effort in the crossovers that I think if I was sure to go active, I could have got a Premium line, or something, as I think most of the $ for these go to the crossovers. Wow, they make my past MBQ crossovers look like a toy.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

I am running a set of 6.5" MB Quart Premiums in my '99 Miata powered by a Eclipse 3244 50x4 (not bridged) amp using an Eclipse 8052 HU. 
I also have run a set of the 6.5" RCE's and yes the Premium line tweeter is nice. Some music utilizes the MBQ tweeter better than other types in my opinion - but when it does its rather awesome. 

I've not heard the QM or QSD every time they come up in Ebay its too much for me to afford. 
If anyone could suggest a good DSP for my setup that might improve the sound any more I'd like to know.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Here is where I was supposed to post my install....

Well some updates to my system. I can say it is half complete, but there are a couple tough parts still needing attention....

The guys over at the Toyota Forum, and some here helped out with this. Tyoneshoes was actually one in particular that really helped me put this together. He was familiar with MBQuart and all the components involved. He was practical minded and honestly, I'm not sure if I would have done more pointless research, or pulled the trigger on something or another, but he helped me push on through!

So here is a list of "To Do's" /unfinished work:

-The rear sub (major) Photos show where it goes in rear.

-Installing the rear speakers. Tweeters are already in the doors. I had to use 6.5" as my original idea of 6x9"(separates) was just a touch too big. So I chickened out on the 6x8's and got round 6.5"

-Adding a fan to get air to the amp closed in rear cargo tool storage area

-Mounting the front amp and DSP down under the seats

-Tuning

We did a bit of the tuning for the fronts, but my installer is not as familiar with DSP's yet. It might be his first. But he is an awesome installer, and a great guy who doesn't give up. 

I am about to order a mic for the 3SIXTY.3 DSP so we can tune better(?) Either the ECM8000. But this needs something called "phatom power"/? I also read someplace that this mic needs better calibration, and maybe not such a good mic...etc. I donno. 
Thought maybe even the Dynaudio V looking mic that connects to the iPhone with some app might work? 
But with a decent DSP, I didn't want to lower the possible gain of using the right gear.
We have yet to do the resin box, so I may have a bit of time for this.

Here are some pix of what went on.....

This is the third row area. You can see we tried to put the amps under the 3rd row, BUT when you lower the back of the seats to have more cargo space the seats come down a lot, and that space is no longer available!!! So make sure you dont care about rear cargo room before placing amps under there! The MTX thunder 4300x 4ch will go under front seat. My least fav spot, and the JBL 3 ch GTOEZ will go in the rear storage compartment. This area has no air flow, and may need a fan (ouch, more fab work!)









This is the thrid row seat.








This is something on the right side of the trunk. Wasn't sure what it is. But I took it in case we need to remember that there is something behind that wall.








This is where the DSP needed to go. We took out those ducts that channel air more directional. Since the HL has 2 AC units, one for the rear with overhead vents, I figured its OK and likely good that the air blows on the amp and DSP, as well as the rear.










Front passenger door with baffle mounted.








Cavaties to put KnuKoncepts Kno Knoise Kolosus deadeing material








I cant stress how much a difference the doors and the car feels with these installed. I covered about 90% of the outer door skin, Here you see the inside of the outer doors skin with it applied. Then I covered the inside of the skin facing the cabin. I think I put in about 15sq feet. I did the calc and its on another thread about deadening material.








More deadening. took about 4 hours just putting this stuff in.








Picture of wiring on the side pillars. these are the colors for the speakers wires.








Power wire was easier to run along the passenger side. Also more speaker wires








Rear door as we try to fit the 6x9...No luck without modifying the door skin, so I opted out. Now a 6.5" will replace it.








Tweeters in stock location(Driver side) are rather directional. They will need to be recessed a bit and then the cover slaps over it.









The rear left corner of the 2014 HL has a small compartment, and this is where the sub will go. A 10" DVC old NOS Infinity. The one with 2 cylinders in the magnet you can swap out.








This is the rear with the storage tray and tools out. The 2nd amp goes in this tray area.


















Hope this is helpful to someone doing a 2014-2015 HL build!


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Finished installing the rear speakers and tweeters. 
Finished making a flat line in the tuning and made some prelim presets.
Finished securing amp/36.3 under seat.
Finished laying down masking tape for making mold for sub.

So in the next 4 or so days, the sub box should be complete. Need to get the non- CA approved resin for a good strong set, and then front grill fab, and it should be good to test.

So far I do wish I could aim the mids in the front more towards me/up and towards seats, as I notice details when I lower my head closer. these details are usually what makes something sound nice, so a little bit of a disappointment, after all this work, BUT, it maybe tuning that can help this. I don't think they are my components. I have had a lower line of these in another car and remember it sounding excellent. But that was some time ago. Hearing changes/?
I know if I compare it to my home system, I would be disappointed, but this was so much more work 

Listened to it this morning with more tuning and it is sounding better and better. very good so far. Can maybe use some more tweaking, but in general great...I got 3 presets with nice adjusts for music genre and the 4th I left flat. The system gets SUPER loud...more than I can handle.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

finished the mold for the box last night....Yay!


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)




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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Regarding the Front Mid...
I actually started tuning it and just learned how the Freq switches position to each EQ point and you can adjust that EQ point. SO I was able to clean up the right side and have the mid slope down, so its a decent "X" like overlap, and not the way it looks now, going all the way across...But it was not sounding good. 

But the tweeters sound like there hardly anything coming out of them. 


Another Q I have is, as I cut my volume decreases, so I have to back off on the Gain cutting, I end up bringing it all the way pretty much. 

Also, there are the filters on the left side with the type of xover and other settings. Once I DEFINE and cut at a specific Freq on the left side, what happens to the EQ adjustments to the filtered out EQ points? Are they just ignored? SO hovering over it I can see the numbers...So I have to work in the range of what I didn't filter out on the left Define settings?


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