# SI's up-coming shallow 6.5" woofer progress thread



## Electrodynamic

While gathering equipment for the build of my personal VW Jetta I was asked the same question by a few important [to me] people (Jason Bertholomey and Mark Worrell to name a few of those people) regarding the 6.5" woofer I would be using. The question was "why don't you make your own mid?" A few hundred hours of design work later I am nearing completion of the shallow 6.5" mid/woofer and figured I would share the information here on DIYMA as some of you could benefit from this woofer as it will actually fit in your doors unlike every other woofer with the same capabilities. 

The 6.5" woofer we will be coming out with is 2.3" deep, uses a 6-layer CCAW coil, has 9 mm Xmax, is DVC 4 Ohm so you can wire it down to 2 Ohms to get more power in stereo out of your amplifiers, HF [high frequency] extension up to 2,500 Hz, uses an XBL^2 motor structure, and will be optimized for use in a vehicle door. 

I have uploaded a few images of the first prototypes to our sever along with a very rough and initial frequency response without a dust cap. The response will change once a dust cap is applied, it's just the nature of the beast. It might smooth out the response or it might create a slight rise. We will know more once the latter is tested. 

The images that you are about to be linked to are of a smaller OD motor and a much lower impedance [D1 Ohm]. I will share more pictures of the larger production motors and D4 coils once we get them in our hands and assemble the drivers. I will also post the same near-field response plots for the production drivers as were taken with these prototype units. 

We are continually working out clearances with this design as it is very difficult to make a shallow:highXmax woofer work as projected. I will keep you all updated with any/all progress.

PS: These drivers will be assembled here in the USA. Projected pre-order price is $99 plus shipping with a final price of $150 per driver. 

Early smaller motor prototype pictures and FR responses:


























Nearfield FR of the prototype D1 driver with smaller motor:









Here is a rotatable model of the motor that the driver will use:
http://www.stereointegrity.com/images/TM65/6pt5NeoAssemblyD490mmOD_Cutaway.pdf


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## SkizeR

so pumped for these. where do i send my money to


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## REGULARCAB

And...... It looks like I'll just wait for these beasts to hit the street before I buy anything else. done!


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## SkizeR

any idea when they will be ready?


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## crea_78

Too bad I don't have another vehicle to try the these out since I just planned my current install and have everything I need. Looks great Nick and can't wait to see how the completed product turns out.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Weightless

Im in as soon as the pre-order is open.


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## etroze

Think I found the mids for my wife's car


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## T3mpest

Any ideas of the thermal powerhandling capabilities of these or the 1w/1m effeciency? The main complaint of the non shallow mount "cousins" of a driver like this is they were ungodly ineffecient and with about 100-150 watts of powerhandling, coudlnt' always make it up with power. I don't do door speaker, (yuck) but I do plan on doing a shallow enclosure in my floor for some 6.5 or 8's and this would work ok for that


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## quality_sound

A shallow 8" true midbass would be amazing


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## casey

seems like another home run, Nick. I am going to push a couple people to get these, I dont think anything will be able to compete at that price point


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## BEAVER

Very, very cool. Anxious to hear more about these.


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## T3mpest

quality_sound said:


> A shallow 8" true midbass would be amazing


This x7894327891327812


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## ntimd8n-k5

In for a preorder also!


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## strakele

In for T/S specs.


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## req

do want!


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## LaserSVT

SkizeR said:


> so pumped for these. where do i send my money to


+1! I have a project in mind and these would fit the bill perfectly. 
I also need to send Nick some money so I can review and punish those beautiful BM MKIV.


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## 2010hummerguy

I will definitely be in for a pair.


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## Rob4607

Since you say it will be for a door how well will it be weather resistant? I'm thinking these would be perfect in my rubicon. But the whole doors and top off deal and whaling it out with a water hose is what I have to plan for. Thanks.


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## dgr932

in for preorder, wife's car without telling her!


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## UNFORGIVEN

Do want. Looks promising


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## edouble101

Is the only configuration going to be D4? A D2 option would be great for those of us that have amps that will not run under 4 ohms.


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## 2010hummerguy

Nick, do you have a build thread? I'd be curious to see what other equipment you'll be using


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## foreman

Any idea how long before the preorder is a go?


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## Electrodynamic

Architect7 said:


> Nick, do you have a build thread? I'd be curious to see what other equipment you'll be using


With these 6.5's being used, every driver in my car will utilize XBL^2. Tweeter, mid/bass, and subwoofers.  I'll post a build thread when I have the availability to drop my car off to Mark to have him do the install. I have to find a donor car or rent a car for a week so Mark can have his way with my vehicle. Plenty of cars I can borrow but none of them have A/C and nearing August in North Carolina along with a 1 hour each way drive to work I can't afford to be without A/C for a week.


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## SkizeR

what exactly is XBL^2? i know its referring to the motor but what exactly does it mean


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## Electrodynamic

edouble101 said:


> Is the only configuration going to be D4? A D2 option would be great for those of us that have amps that will not run under 4 ohms.


If any VC options are opened up it would be a D8 Ohm coil as a D2 is much wider than a D4 [winding height is fixed with XBL^2 drivers so a larger OD coil would not fit in the gap].


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## 2010hummerguy

Electrodynamic said:


> With these 6.5's being used, every driver in my car will utilize XBL^2. Tweeter, mid/bass, and subwoofers.  I'll post a build thread when I have the availability to drop my car off to Mark to have him do the install. I have to find a donor car or rent a car for a week so Mark can have his way with my vehicle. Plenty of cars I can borrow but none of them have A/C and nearing August in North Carolina along with a 1 hour each way drive to work I can't afford to be without A/C for a week.


Nice, looking forward to seeing what amps/HU you choose


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## SkizeR

Electrodynamic said:


> If any VC options are opened up it would be a D8 Ohm coil as a D2 is much wider than a D4 [winding height is fixed with XBL^2 drivers so a larger OD coil would not fit in the gap].


ah man.. imagine one ohm midbass's


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## Electrodynamic

SkizeR said:


> what exactly is XBL^2? i know its referring to the motor but what exactly does it mean


XBL^2 is a linear motor topology. Simply put, when your BL changes over stroke (as all traditional motors do) your T/S's change over stroke. When your T/S's change so do your enclosure requirements and, most importantly, so does distortion. Keeping motor force constant over stroke is immensely beneficial.


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## Electrodynamic

SkizeR said:


> ah man.. imagine one ohm midbass's


The initial prototypes for these drivers were D1 Ohm.


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## LaserSVT

Electrodynamic said:


> With these 6.5's being used, every driver in my car will utilize XBL^2. Tweeter, mid/bass, and subwoofers.  I'll post a build thread when I have the availability to drop my car off to Mark to have him do the install. I have to find a donor car or rent a car for a week so Mark can have his way with my vehicle. Plenty of cars I can borrow but none of them have A/C and nearing August in North Carolina along with a 1 hour each way drive to work I can't afford to be without A/C for a week.


Send me a pair of BM MKIVs and you can borrow my truck for the week. AC blows at 38* vent temp with the vent walls going as low as 19*.


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## SkizeR

Electrodynamic said:


> The initial prototypes for these drivers were D1 Ohm.


now make it 8 inch and i think you will literally have the market by the balls :laugh:


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## strakele

Are these a true 6.5" frame? Or perhaps a bit larger? 

Seems like almost all 6.5's are right at 6.5" flange diameter, but as soon as you start looking at 8's, all the flanges are 8.6" or more, making them difficult to fit. A 7" frame would fit just about anywhere a 6.5" would, especially with how shallow these are, and provide a good bit more cone area.


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## Velozity

Subscribed. At that pricing you will sell out quickly.


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## cgm246

You website is down...any listings on your other offerings?


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## ErinH

looking forward to seeing more results from these, Nick.


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## JSM-FA5

In for information as well. Casey has told me a little about these drivers and I would love to give them a try.


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## Electrodynamic

We had a virus hit our site and my web guy and our server help desk have been tackling the issue for the past 24 hours. Hopefully it will be up again tonight. But if the later happens there still won't be any info on the TM65 on the web page...but there is a little bit of info on our forum. Honestly there is more information in this thread than anywhere else.


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## Electrodynamic

strakele said:


> Are these a true 6.5" frame? Or perhaps a bit larger?
> 
> Seems like almost all 6.5's are right at 6.5" flange diameter, but as soon as you start looking at 8's, all the flanges are 8.6" or more, making them difficult to fit. A 7" frame would fit just about anywhere a 6.5" would, especially with how shallow these are, and provide a good bit more cone area.


The cutout is 5.62" and the OD of the flange is 6.57". It is a true 6.5" frame.


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## captainobvious

quality_sound said:


> A shallow 8" true midbass would be amazing



AGREED. Put me on the waiting list now.


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## foreman

How will the midrange be do you think? Obviously midbass is great but if we're looking at building a 2 way will it sound as good up to 2.5k? 
And when can we expect the group buy to start?


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## rton20s

This is very intriguing. I'm definitely keeping an eye on it. 

Hmm... complete XBL^2 build for the wife? 

KAXBLTWT | TM65 | BM MkIV


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## 1fishman

SkizeR said:


> now make it 8 inch and i think you will literally have the market by the balls :laugh:


No doubt! i'd be all over that.


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## Weightless

rton20s said:


> This is very intriguing. I'm definitely keeping an eye on it.
> 
> Hmm... complete XBL^2 build for the wife?
> 
> KAXBLTWT | TM65 | BM MkIV


That's the same set up that I am thinking about for my work truck. Too funny.


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## kizz

Excited to see what these can do. I could be interested in a pair


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## quickaudi07

Sounds interesting count me in please


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## thehatedguy

eXented BL squared...

This motor topology has what is essentially two top plates so you have flux focused into 2 areas of the gap. As the coil leaves one gap rather than B dropping off it remains constant as it enters into the other top plate area. 

If you look at Klippel data, you can see that XBL drivers have (or should have) a very broad and flat BL curve...which keeps the motor parameters more linear over stroke.

There are other ways to do similar things, but most AFAIK would require more depth- like dual magnet/dual coils, dual motor single coil, etc.

The trick in this particular motor setup is having a build house who can center the coil where it needs to be...not where they think it needs to be, or put it "close enough." If they don't do this, then you will have two peaks in the BL graph rather than a long flat plateau. 

And I think early on there was some problems machining the rebate in the top plate, though it seems like now most XBL drivers are using two pieces of metal stacked on top of each other to create "one" top plate. This IMO is pretty smart and the easier way to skin the cat since it would be easier to machine to tolerance...and probably would be easier to put a shorting ring in it as well.

Was that what you were asking about?




SkizeR said:


> what exactly is XBL^2? i know its referring to the motor but what exactly does it mean


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## richiec77

Pair this motor up with Scanspeak split paper Cone...instant Uber Speaker! Without a fancy cone material this still looks like it could be a sweet drive. 

If you make an 8" Mid-bass I'm in also! Pretty much in any most of your speakers.


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## Black Rain

Hey Nick......

This may be an ignorant question, but is this 6.5 supposed to be a dedicated midrange or midbass? I believe they asked already, but if so would it be a full 6.5 or 7" cone or with flange driver? How would it compare to some of the industry best 7" MBs (like Scanspeak 18W)?

Also, if you manager to fabricate an 8" version of it, how comparable to you think it would be say to a JL ZR800(one the industry best MBs...IMO)?

Excuse my ignorance on these matters. I'd appreciate some enlightenment on this matter guys.


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## captainobvious

Nick, if you manage to build an 8" midbass that is as clean and accurate in the 60-350hz range as your BM mkIV is in the sub range, you can take my money for it now. 

I'm glad to see that you're beginning to expand out from subwoofers. Hopefully this time next year you'll have a tweeter and small format midrange to add to the lineup as well (thinking 3-4"). I'm loving where you're going with this.

-Steve


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## JSM-FA5

foreman said:


> How will the midrange be do you think? Obviously midbass is great but if we're looking at building a 2 way will it sound as good up to 2.5k?
> And when can we expect the group buy to start?


I'm looking at doing this in a 2 way set up too. And I would also like to know when to expect the group buy.


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## SQram

Also in for an 8" version...=)


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## rton20s

captainobvious said:


> Hopefully this time next year you'll have a tweeter and small format midrange to add to the lineup as well (thinking 3-4").


3". Definitely a 3".


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## captainobvious

rton20s said:


> 3". Definitely a 3".


My preferred as well. You can easily mate a 3" up with an 8 or 6.5 as a mid in a 3-way so you may as well go with the smaller 3" for more flexible installation possibilities, eh?


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## rton20s

captainobvious said:


> My preferred as well. You can easily mate a 3" up with an 8 or 6.5 as a mid in a 3-way so you may as well go with the smaller 3" for more flexible installation possibilities, eh?


And it will work with more competition cars that are limited to drivers the same size as factory. Like a Scion xB. 

Perhaps we should allow Nick to finish the 6.5 first.


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## spyders03

In for more info and group buy. Any more T/S specs you can throw our way? Le, Bl, sensitivity? And I dual 8 would be cool since my amps can't take a 2 ohm load bridged.


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## DBlevel

I'd be in for a pair of these..............


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## Electrodynamic

spyders03 said:


> In for more info and group buy. Any more T/S specs you can throw our way? Le, Bl, sensitivity? And I dual 8 would be cool since my amps can't take a 2 ohm load bridged.


All three of the specs you asked for vary with the impedance of the coil used. I will provide that information when we get closer to production.


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## quickaudi07

When is that going to happen and how much is going to be for a group buy????


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## 2010hummerguy

quickaudi07 said:


> When is that going to happen and how much is going to be for a group buy????





Electrodynamic said:


> PS: These drivers will be assembled here in the USA. Projected pre-order price is $99 plus shipping with a final price of $150 per driver.


Ta-da!


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## Infinity

So tempting. If that high end isn't a really hard limit, I'm in for 2, maybe 3 pairs


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## Electrodynamic

Right now I'm still trying to find a build house that can do what I specified (in a seven page techinical document). So far a few build houses have taken their own liberties and supplied me with what they "think" I will accept. But the horizon is clear because I have four new build houses that can/will do what I ask of them. I will keep this forum updated as much as I can. 

*edit* This not a big delay like the BM mkIII-to-mkIV was. Many years have passed and we have made many contacts to make our products. The big tight-rope of quality/quanity has been walked many times and I/we are not willing to sacrifice quantity for price. These mid/woofers need to be perfect and they will be perfect. The development of this mid/woofer should not take any longer than 3 months from now.


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## req

sweet. ill be watching!


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## quickaudi07

Req donos everyone else  do you guys have any pics of these little monsters??


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## win1

We'll I will stay tuned for this driver


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## subwoofery

quickaudi07 said:


> Req donos everyone else  do you guys have any pics of these little monsters??


What little monsters?

Kelvin


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## quickaudi07

subwoofery said:


> What little monsters?
> 
> Kelvin


The drivers I'll called them little monsters lol


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## subwoofery

quickaudi07 said:


> The drivers I'll called them little monsters lol


There are pics of the driver in the very first post  

Kelvin


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## quickaudi07

Thanks Kelvin sorry I had to miss seen it


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## subwoofery

quickaudi07 said:


> Thanks Kelvin sorry I had to miss seen it


Lol... Don't worry. I'm not an ass with regulars  Well not all regulars  

Kelvin


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## Electrodynamic

I have sent six pages of technical documentation to five different build houses so far. Two of those six build houses are here in the states. We will see what samples they all provide and the quality of said samples. Just trying to balance out everything - I know what you guys want to spend and I am trying to stick to it. For instance, if they come out to being $300 per speaker it is not worth it. Staying under $150 plus shipping per piece is where I am looking to stay at with the pre-order price of $99 plus shipping per piece.


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## subwoofery

As an early adopter of your SI Mag v.4 and BM mkIII - am really eager to try a pair of your smaller offering 

Count me in on the pre-order  

Kelvin


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## Golden Ear

Interesting. I'll tune in


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## quickaudi07

Count me in on a set ad well. Never heard a bm but people are amazed by ur product. These drivers shouldn't be any different.. can't wait
!


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## Electrodynamic

Quick update: 

Progress is still moving along. Unfortunately the two US build houses are not moving fast at all...but instead rather very slowly. I have had to do a lot of the sourcing of parts for them.  More drawings have been sent to all of the build houses and we should have some actual, proper, prototypes to measure within a month from now.


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## folgrz

Super interested! 

Wouldn't mind grabbing 2 of these along with 2 of your bm mkiv's! 

Subscribed


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## ChrisB

I'd be down for a pair! Hopefully I actually go through with an install, lol.


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## quickaudi07

Thanks for the update. Keep up the good work.


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## 2010hummerguy

Hey Nick, random thought, will you guys experiment with a phase plug version to see how top end performance is affected?


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## thehatedguy

It shouldn't be much since they aren't really phase plugs or function as a phase plug.


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## thehatedguy

Kelvin says he's down for 2 sets, one for me and one for him...he's buying 



subwoofery said:


> As an early adopter of your SI Mag v.4 and BM mkIII - am really eager to try a pair of your smaller offering
> 
> Count me in on the pre-order
> 
> Kelvin


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## 2010hummerguy

thehatedguy said:


> It shouldn't be much since they aren't really phase plugs or function as a phase plug.


Sure, not so much a function of the phase plug...but more a function of not having dust caps. I can't remember the exact science behind it but John at Acoustic Elegance has a great explanation on the effects of dust caps on driver top end. I believe it is because dustcaps can cause breakup earlier than if the woofer operates without a dust cap. I will see if I can find the post...but then again that is for 10"+ woofers and a dust cap on a 6.5" woofer probably isn't as prone to breakup.


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## spyders03

Architect, I believe you are correct, I've read the same thing and the science behind it, and I believe it affects all drivers, even midrange drivers. Would actually be more prevalent on smaller drivers since you use them higher in their passband generally, ie, you are more likely to play a 6.5" up to 3k than you are a 12" up to 800hz.


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## subwoofery

thehatedguy said:


> Kelvin says he's down for 2 sets, one for me and one for him...he's buying


Is that so? I thought that the 2 sets were for me trying the midbass array  
Guess I better make that 3 sets then  

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy

Sure if you put it that way


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## Electrodynamic

Ok, most of the recent delay was because two build house's emails were being sent to my Junk folder. Now that it is sorted out progress is moving along nicely. The finish on the motor may be chrome or nickel at this point. I don't think you guys care how the motor is finished as long it performs properly and resists water and corrosion.  

New samples should be ready to be measured in a few weeks.


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## 2010hummerguy

The motor could be made of rusty nails and I would still buy them


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## deltasaurus

Very interested to put an all XBL^2 driver array together in one of my vehicles and these look like a great step in that direction when they become available. An 8 inch (or slightly smaller or larger) are of great interest as well. In for future information.


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## REGULARCAB

Architect7 said:


> The motor could be made of rusty nails and I would still buy them


This


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## strakele

deltasaurus said:


> An 8 inch (or slightly smaller) are of great interest as well. In for future information.


This. A speaker with a frame ~7.75" diameter, less than 3" deep with the kinda xmax we're talking about here would work for the vast majority of people who can't quite fit 8's but want bigger than 6.5". Which is a lot of people. And therefore a lot of sales


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## casey

strakele said:


> This. A speaker with a frame ~7.75" diameter, less than 3" deep with the kinda xmax we're talking about here would work for the vast majority of people who can't quite fit 8's but want bigger than 6.5". Which is a lot of people. And therefore a lot of sales


id pull my DYN mw172 for that too


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## Electrodynamic

Architect7 said:


> Hey Nick, random thought, will you guys experiment with a phase plug version to see how top end performance is affected?


There will not a phase plug on these drivers. I am not a fan of phase plugs on car audio drivers due to the car audio environment first and foremost. Too many chances for something to get lodged between the former ID and the pole OD and cause issues down the road.


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## Electrodynamic

I don't know if I already mentioned this or not but there is not an 8" basket of this style. 6.5" only. Now to get the new prototypes in and get them built and measured.


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## UNFORGIVEN

Electrodynamic said:


> I don't know if I already mentioned this or not but there is not an 8" basket of this style. 6.5" only. Now to get the new prototypes in and get them built and measured.


can't wait for results


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## 2010hummerguy

Electrodynamic said:


> There will not a phase plug on these drivers. I am not a fan of phase plugs on car audio drivers due to the car audio environment first and foremost. Too many chances for something to get lodged between the former ID and the pole OD and cause issues down the road.


Yep totally understood!


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## IDGAF

I'm in for (4).


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## req

nick... we know there isnt a basket to use for an ~8" driver, thats why we want it! haha


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## Electrodynamic

A lot of testing is going to be performed on these new samples to make sure we don't damage certain pieces of the speaker due to the motor. With such a shallow depth and high Xmax the clearance between parts becomes a huge consideration. I will assemble one D4 prototype when the new motors come in and post up my initial thoughts on the driver along with a video or two of excursion abilities and of course a frequency response measurement in free-air.


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## 2010hummerguy

Woohoo!


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## quickaudi07

Electro bring it on!!! I think there is a big hand of us waiting ,,,,


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## Electrodynamic

Words on the street is the new revised sample parts should be headed our way by the end of next week.  The new samples have a slightly shorter motor, modified gap geometry for more linear BL symmetry, improved spider for 40% more throw than the first samples, etc. I'll be sure to post pictures of them when they arrive.


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## Flinchy

glad i got pointed to this thread before getting anything, do it once do it right and all.

so in


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## LaserSVT

Now if we could get him to make some Beryllium tweeters........ *pokes with stick*


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## Electrodynamic

New sample parts are almost done. Just waiting on the copper shorting rings to be machined. Then it only takes a day for the motor to be assembled and bolted to the frame and then the rest of the un-assembled parts and the motor/basket will be shipped over to us.  Here is a picture of most of the new parts lineup (copper shorting ring not pictured): 










For those of you wondering what has been changed from the first prototype:

1) Finish of the motor has been changed to Zinc. 
2) Yoke has all new OD dimensions:
- Backplate is 1mm thinner to reduce mounting depth.
- Yoke now has flared gap vents and smooth flare pole ID opening.
- Backplate OD is larger
3) Neo magnet has been increased to 90mm OD
4) Top plates are totally revised including:
- New gap geometery for better BL symmetry
- New gap geometery for more linear BL instead of a touch higher Xmax
5) Top top plate (there are two top plates) OD is smaller to match the basket better and also 1mm thinner at the flange for reduced mounting depth.
6) Flat Nomex spider with flat sewn-on leads (the first sample spider was a cupped spider [raised by 5mm above the spider landing] with round sewn-on leads which reduced rearward cone travel). 

I think that's it.  This sample, and production, will utilize a D4 Ohm coil configuration.


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## quickaudi07

This looks sexy i want !
So when you guys might be shipping these and where do I sign up for a set ?


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## 2010hummerguy

Nick, that is beautiful!


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## iroller

need these also


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## Electrodynamic

New sample parts are on the way! We received DHL tracking info early this morning.


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## Q-Authority

Really looking forward to seeing this come along. From what I have seen it looks like the exact driver I'll be needing. Best of luck, and thanks for the great effort. Love seeing a homegrown business, so to speak, working on items like these.

Do you expect to have any sort of speaker grills for these, or spacers?


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## rton20s




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## Electrodynamic

lBecause this is DIYMA and I think most of you will appreciate this information I have decided to post up a few graphs of FEM data to show you what all goes on in speaker design. The two graphs are of the very first sample motors using dual 1 Ohm voice coils and the current new revised sample motors using dual 4 Ohm voice coils. Now, both versions (regardless of impedance) have been re-worked regarding gap geometry. What do I mean by "gap geometry"? I mean the distance between the VC WW (WW means winding width which is also known as the voice coil winding height) and the distance of the two sections of the top plate. Because XBL^2 operates on a rebate in the middle of the voice coil the top and bottom sections of the top plate play a major role in shaping the BL curve and BL symmetry. Change one minor detail and everything gets reset. 

Here are two images from FEM modeling. The first image is the initial prototype D1 Ohm coil geometry which focused on peak Xmax rather than BL symmetry noted as "Forward-Rearward BL Linearity". *Xmax* (one-way linerar as it should be) *on this driver is 9.64mm*. Keep in mind that BL is synonymous with Re so lower Re coils will haver lower BL figures. Both Re and BL need to be considered when looking at any driver:










Notice the BL symmertry is not very linear. BL symmetry was sacrificed in this case for a touch higher overall Xmax figure. 

Second image is of the new samples that are headed our way as I type this post. BL symmetry was taken into consideration more with a touch less focus on a higher Xmax figure. Notice the changes in BL symmetry noted as "Forward-Rearward BL Linearity":










You can see that BL symmetry [Forward-Rearward BL Linearity] is more linear on the second image. *Xmax is 9.24mm on this model*. So sacrificing a touch less technical Xmax yields much better BL symmetry. BL symmetry will be higher on outward stroke because these samples, and production, have extended pole pieces for a reason. The juice was worth the squeeze.  More linear BL overall without chasing a tenth higher Xmax number.


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## edouble101

I love reading the design aspects of speakers. Thanks for sharing


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## cajunner

are shorting rings going to be copper?

are these graphs of the finished motors, and the new version uses the 90mm neo ring?

would leaving 1mm in the back plate, like the first motor, offset the extended pole for more BL linearity?

looks like fun, I have to ask, were all these changes done in software analysis first and what other changes you considered before settling on those specifically, and wouldn't a semi-cupped spider give just a slight bit more mechanical clearance, or is it not an issue since the XBL limits damage based on distribution of flux?


----------



## Electrodynamic

cajunner said:


> are shorting rings going to be copper?


There is one shorting ring nestled directly in the middle of the gaps centered with the center of the coil. 



Electrodynamic said:


> Here is a picture of most of the new parts lineup (*copper shorting ring not pictured*):





> are these graphs of the finished motors,


Like I stated in my post those graphs are from FEM modeling. The motors are built to spec based on those models.



> and the new version uses the 90mm neo ring?


Yes



> would leaving 1mm in the back plate, like the first motor, offset the extended pole for more BL linearity?


No it would not. Extending the depth of the backplate does not help BL symmetry (unless the design is really messed up from the beginning). The thickness of the backplate changes saturation, if the design is near that point or not, but not help linearize BL symmetry. BL symmetry is a combination of everything in the gap - not outside of the gap like the thickness of the backplate. 



> looks like fun, I have to ask, were all these changes done in software analysis first


Yes they were.



> and what other changes you considered before settling on those specifically,


I considered as much as I could think of.  How much linear travel did I want the design to have, how could I get the motor force where I needed it, what clearances I had everywhere (literally everywhere - these shallow designs must be very exact), etc. 



> and wouldn't a semi-cupped spider give just a slight bit more mechanical clearance,


In this design, no. There is ample room under the spider landing so a cupped spider only reduces rearward cone travel hindering both linear and peak rearward travel. 



> or is it not an issue since the XBL limits damage based on distribution of flux?


Could you elaborate as to what you mean by "limiting damage based on distribution of flux"? Limiting what damage? The distribution of flux allows the coil to travel both farther and with more linear BL but I'm not sure what you mean by limiting damage.


----------



## cajunner

Electrodynamic said:


> There is one shorting ring nestled directly in the middle of the gaps centered with the center of the coil.
> Like I stated in my post those graphs are from FEM modeling. The motors are built to spec based on those models.
> Yes
> No it would not. Extending the depth of the backplate does not help BL symmetry (unless the design is really messed up from the beginning). The thickness of the backplate changes saturation, if the design is near that point or not, but not help linearize BL symmetry. BL symmetry is a combination of everything in the gap - not outside of the gap like the thickness of the backplate.
> Yes they were.
> I considered as much as I could think of.  How much linear travel did I want the design to have, how could I get the motor force where I needed it, what clearances I had everywhere (literally everywhere - these shallow designs must be very exact), etc.
> In this design, no. There is ample room under the spider landing so a cupped spider only reduces rearward cone travel hindering both linear and peak rearward travel.
> Could you elaborate as to what you mean by "limiting damage based on distribution of flux"? Limiting what damage? The distribution of flux allows the coil to travel both farther and with more linear BL but I'm not sure what you mean by limiting damage.


thanks for humoring me and maybe giving some others a little insight into the design process.



what I suspect, or this is my take, or... what I mean is, I feel like flux travels in the steel, and if you have more steel in the back plate, it offsets the BL for more force in the rearward stroke, based on the distribution of flux in the entire motor.

so if you cut back 1mm back plate thickness, it's not just going to get closer to saturating the return path, but it's also going to change the BL symmetry.

and the distribution of flux lines in a XBL motor, means that as the coil reaches the end of stroke there is less stray lines above and below the coil, because the magnetic force is distributed over a much wider area.

so there is less electromotive force to create hard over-excursion at the limits, in comparison to a non XBL motor using a square gap geometry with more flux lines above and below the gap.


----------



## Electrodynamic

cajunner said:


> thanks for humoring me and maybe giving some others a little insight into the design process.
> 
> 
> 
> what I suspect, or this is my take, or... what I mean is, I feel like flux travels in the steel, and if you have more steel in the back plate, it offsets the BL for more force in the rearward stroke, based on the distribution of flux in the entire motor.
> 
> so if you cut back 1mm back plate thickness, it's not just going to get closer to saturating the return path, but it's also going to change the BL symmetry.


Nope. The first FEM data is from a driver with a 10% thicker backplate than the second FEM data. As you can see the BL symmetry is much more uniform in the second FEM data with the slightly thinner backplate compared to the first FEM data with the thicker backplate. You shouldn't confuse motor OD or TP/BP thickness symmetry with BL symmetry. 



cajunner said:


> and the distribution of flux lines in a XBL motor, means that as the coil reaches the end of stroke there is less stray lines above and below the coil, because the magnetic force is distributed over a much wider area.
> 
> so there is less electromotive force to create hard over-excursion at the limits, in comparison to a non XBL motor using a square gap geometry with more flux lines above and below the gap.


I don't think you mean "stray lines" as stray lines are lines of flux outside of the motor that do nothing for how the coil behaves. 

Quite the contrary even though I think you mean actual lines of flux or just motor force in general as XBL^2 holds on to BL longer than other conventional motor types. Click on this text and read this paper. XBL^2 is able to provide a more uniform BL shape than an overhung or underhung motor topology. Because of the latter, distortion over stroke is kept lower than conentional motor designs that may actually lead to customers potentially damaging the driver because they don't hear any distortion so they keep turning it up until it's too late and the coil contacts the backplate. Much like the during the introduction of XBL^2 in the car audio world with the Adire Brahma: Many customers would comment saying "it doesn't sound very loud but the meter shows me doing a 144 dB with a single 12." It didn't _sound_ as loud as their previous woofer because it had significantly lower distortion. Distortion is perceived as loudness. Not a bad thing, but rather just the truth even though the word "distortion" is not taken positively in fidelity.

I haven't seen a single motor that has as many lines of flux above and below that gap as you are talking about. Do you have any screen shots of FEM/FEMM data that you can show me? Lines of flux are in the gap, not above it and below it. Sure there may be a line here and there above the top plate or outside the motor OD but there are not a lot of lines of flux above the top plate out in the open.


----------



## cajunner

thanks for the post and link!

I believe XBL woofers suffer from a lower sensitivity compared to motors using the same magnet slugs?

the graphs and data that come to mind are of JBL's focused field geometry, or an undercut pole with the narrowed top plate?

I just assume that because there is a much wider gap for flux distribution, that even though you extend the BL curve in it's optimal flattened shape you lose force at the ends.

That a magnet in XBL will not be able to achieve the same sensitivity as a normal woofer, but I definitely agree that BL linearity and usable excursion (albeit with slightly lower initial sensitivity) in the XBL design, makes it worth the extra steel and mild machining costs.


----------



## Electrodynamic

cajunner said:


> thanks for the post and link!
> 
> I believe XBL woofers suffer from a lower sensitivity compared to motors using the same magnet slugs?
> 
> the graphs and data that come to mind are of JBL's focused field geometry, or an undercut pole with the narrowed top plate?
> 
> I just assume that because there is a much wider gap for flux distribution, that even though you extend the BL curve in it's optimal flattened shape you lose force at the ends.
> 
> That a magnet in XBL will not be able to achieve the same sensitivity as a normal woofer, but I definitely agree that BL linearity and usable excursion (albeit with slightly lower initial sensitivity) in the XBL design, makes it worth the extra steel and mild machining costs.


Not quite.  There have been, and are, XBL^2 designs cresting 99 dB efficiency. When you manipulate the gap all kinds of crazy things can happen. Sure, if you stick to a traditional overhung design and end up with 4mm of Xmax you can have a 99 dB sensitive driver. An XBL^2 version of that exact same motor may only be 97 dB but it will have 7mm or 8mm of Xmax. Depending on the application the extra Xmax may be worth the slight sacrifice in sensitivity. In this thread specific application XBL^2 affords more than ample sensitivity with increased Xmax over traditional motor topologies.

*edit* I just saw where you noted there is "much wider gap" but the gap is not wider than any other gap. Quite the opposite really. You may be thinking of an LMS motor where the voice coil winding OD varies from the top of the WW to the bottom of the WW so the gap must be pretty wide to accommodate the wide OD at the top and bottom of the WW. XBL^2 has a constant WW of the coil so you can make the gap width as you see fit.


----------



## cajunner

Electrodynamic said:


> Not quite.  There have been, and are, XBL^2 designs cresting 99 dB efficiency. When you manipulate the gap all kinds of crazy things can happen. Sure, if you stick to a traditional overhung design and end up with 4mm of Xmax you can have a 99 dB sensitive driver. An XBL^2 version of that exact same motor may only be 97 dB but it will have 7mm or 8mm of Xmax. Depending on the application the extra Xmax may be worth the slight sacrifice in sensitivity. In this thread specific application XBL^2 affords more than ample sensitivity with increased Xmax over traditional motor topologies.
> 
> *edit* I just saw where you noted there is "much wider gap" and the gap is not wider than any other gap. Quite the opposite really. You may be thinking of an LMS motor where the voice coil winding OD varies from the top of the WW to the bottom of the WW so the gap must be pretty wide to accommodate the wide OD at the top and bottom of the WW. XBL^2 has a constant WW of the coil so you can make the gap width as you see fit.


actually I just didn't know what to call it, haha...

by "wider gap" I meant taller gap, or more area between the steel parts for the flux to be evenly distributed.

I didn't know that there were such high sensitivity XBL drivers, that's amazing.

I'd definitely take a 6.5" XBL midbass with 89 db sensitivity over a regular overhung with 91 db, if you can push the XBL driver an extra 2 mm in both directions.


----------



## sundownz

That is one of the interesting things about an XBL driver; if it has any appreciable amount of excursion in practice a lower at-rest sensitivity does not equal a lower average sensitivity over stroke; therefore at a given input level it may be louder even if the static sensitivity IS lower :

Let's use my SA-12 for an example (using Klippel graphs) :

Sens @ 0mm excursion = 85.00 dB
Sens @ 25mm p-p excursion = 83.86 dB
Sens @ 40mm p-p excursion = 81.74 dB

A driver with a flat BL curve wouldn't drop so much over stroke.

It's also entirely possible to make an XBL driver with the same size (or at least same mass) magnet with the same or higher sensitivity than an over-hung driver of comparable x-max and x-mech levels.

Here is a quick example of maintaining the same or LESS magnet mass (my example used less mass via a shorter stack and wider OD), same x-mag, same gap spec in terms of coil distance to the plate and yoke, and same x-mech in an XBL^2 driver with equal sensitivity to the over-hung counterpart... this is just a quick and dirty example I did this morning and by no means is optimized -- see attachments.

With some slick top-plate casting/forging (eg: no added cost) on the outside edges of the steel the total motor mass could also come in check with the over-hung counterpart.


----------



## req

i might have to buy a few of these...

quick question - enclosure recommendations. i have sealed .31 cubic foot boxes that i can put these in. is there a specific type of enclosure you'd recommend for these bad boys?


----------



## Guest

This SI midbass looks VERY intriguing... Looking forward to more details...!


----------



## Electrodynamic

The new parts arrived and I built up one prototype just a few minutes ago. Here are the T/S's on what production will be:

Re: 6.8 Ohms
Fs: 57 Hz
Qes: 0.44
Qms: 3.70
Qts: 0.39
Le: 1.10 mH
Sd: 13966 mm^2 (21.64 in^2)
Vas: 11.57 L
Mms: 18.1 g
Cms: 417.6
SPL: 88.77 dB (1W/1M) - basically 89 dB as production units may use a little less glue than I did building this one.
SPL: 89.47 dB (2.83v/1M)
Xmax: 9mm
Xmech: 12mm


----------



## T3mpest

cajunner said:


> thanks for humoring me and maybe giving some others a little insight into the design process.
> 
> 
> 
> what I suspect, or this is my take, or... what I mean is, I feel like flux travels in the steel, and if you have more steel in the back plate, it offsets the BL for more force in the rearward stroke, based on the distribution of flux in the entire motor.
> 
> so if you cut back 1mm back plate thickness, it's not just going to get closer to saturating the return path, but it's also going to change the BL symmetry.
> 
> and the distribution of flux lines in a XBL motor, means that as the coil reaches the end of stroke there is less stray lines above and below the coil, because the magnetic force is distributed over a much wider area.
> 
> so there is less electromotive force to create hard over-excursion at the limits, in comparison to a non XBL motor using a square gap geometry with more flux lines above and below the gap.


 Brahmas had a 29mm xmax and bottom out at like 35mm rearward, but in almost every case you'd thermally fry the woofer before you broke it mechanically. Once you got past 30mm or so you were just about out of motor force, you'd fry the coil before you damaged it by hitting the backplate since you could just barely get it to tap.


----------



## HiloDB1

edit* nvm seen it posted prior.


----------



## Electrodynamic

And a video showing excursion capability:


----------



## foreman

After all the reading i've done on your SI BM subs and how much power you say they need( as in not the full rms), how much power do you think these will need to run well?


----------



## Guest

And I'm ready to buy a couple of sets..... 

I want to give you ? so you can ? those ? to me.....


----------



## BEAVER

Sweet! So when do they hit the streets?


----------



## Guest

Seriously.... If your past products are any indication... These are going to be some keepers...!


----------



## Electrodynamic

foreman said:


> After all the reading i've done on your SI BM subs and how much power you say they need( as in not the full rms), how much power do you think these will need to run well?


1 to 2 watts. Seriously. These were designed to be mated up to tweeters in an active 2-way setup as the 6.5's high frequency extension is up to 2,500 Hz. My 6.5" has a lot more stroke compared to other offerings and can be used in a dedicated small ported alignment for subwoofer duty if you see fit. This is DIYMA so I'm pretty sure there are going to be some guys experimenting with enclosure alignments doing some pretty neat things.


----------



## Guest

What do you foresee as a realistic power handling ?


----------



## captainobvious

9mm xmax in a 6.5" is nuts. And with great sensitivity to boot.


----------



## WhereAmEye?

About time I found this thread. Sub'd for updates and emptying my wallet


----------



## cajunner

Electrodynamic said:


> 1 to 2 watts. Seriously. These were designed to be mated up to tweeters in an active 2-way setup as the 6.5's high frequency extension is up to 2,500 Hz. My 6.5" has a lot more stroke compared to other offerings and can be used in a dedicated small ported alignment for subwoofer duty if you see fit. This is DIYMA so I'm pretty sure there are going to be some guys experimenting with enclosure alignments doing some pretty neat things.


they said that about the Mpyre 65M, and I think that the use of a high-density inverted flattish dust cap was doing more to suppress what should have been at least good midrange, if not just a touch dark, than they figured on.



captainobvious said:


> 9mm xmax in a 6.5" is nuts. And with great sensitivity to boot.


it's more nuts in a shallow design, I think we're on the cusp...


----------



## jpf150

Simply awesome! I'm very intrigued by the fact that you say these could work for subwoofer duty as well. I really want to experiment with a couple of these in my center console instead of the planned 8" sub. Great job on the speaker Nick.


----------



## Electrodynamic

foreman said:


> After all the reading i've done on your SI BM subs and how much power you say they need( as in not the full rms), how much power do you think these will need to run well?


I'll do actual power testing on the other prototype in the next couple of weeks and let everyone know how much power I feel is a safe amount.


----------



## LaserSVT

Looks like you are trying to corner the market on shallow mount high end. LOL

Sucks being poor. I am sure some day I will buy a set to play with but I am about to hit the slim time of the year for mechanic work.


----------



## quickaudi07

Can u post a video while doing so ???


----------



## subwoofery

LaserSVT said:


> Looks like you are trying to corner the market on shallow mount high end. LOL
> 
> Sucks being poor. I am sure some day I will buy a set to play with but I am about to hit the slim time of the year for mechanic work.


Can't wait for Nick to release a 1" deep XBL^2 midrange with a sensitivity still in the upper 80s  

Kelvin


----------



## strakele

And a 10" sub to match the 12" BM.
And a 2.6" deep 7.75" midbass.



These current woofers are looking sweet Nick. Gotta love the lack of mechanical noise at full stroke. Very interested in T/S specs.


----------



## HiloDB1

strakele said:


> Very interested in T/S specs.


T/S Specs can be found a few posts back

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/2155672-post124.html


----------



## BEAVER

strakele said:


> ...10" sub to match the 12" BM...


I like the way you think. In my rebuild, I'm limited to a 10" or two 8's. A 10" BM would be neato. As it is, I don't know what the neck I'm going to use...

These 6.5" woofers really do look like the cats pajamas. I was all set to purchase a set of JL ZR's until this thread popped up. Now I'm going to wait it out, for sure. I'm anxiously awaiting reviews on these.


----------



## Electrodynamic

For what it's worth: I designed these drivers to have similar frequency response to the Adire Audio Koda 6, but with a lot more output capability and shallower mounting depth. I had a pair of Koda 6's in an Honda DelSol of mine many years ago and I absolutely loved the way that they performed. In-car response was very very good and the midbass was almost "too much".

I am very happy with the way this woofer models out as it literally mimics the Koda's LF and HF F3's. There are a few differences in ported alignments but sealed and IB alignments are almost identical between the two. 

For those of you wondering about T/S's, here they are again:

Re: 6.8 Ohms
Fs: 57 Hz
Qes: 0.44
Qms: 3.70
Qts: 0.39
Le: 1.10 mH
Sd: 13966 mm^2 (21.64 in^2)
Vas: 11.57 L
Mms: 18.1 g
Cms: 417.6
SPL: 88.77 dB (1W/1M) - basically 89 dB as production units may use a little less glue than I did building this one.
SPL: 89.47 dB (2.83v/1M)
Xmax: 9mm
Xmech: 12mm


----------



## Electrodynamic

It may not look like much but like said before every milimeter, or even tenths of a milimeter, matters with a shallow woofer. Here is a picture of the first prototype on the left with the new prototype on the right. Most notable differences are the slightly reduced mounting depth on the new prototype on the right, the larger motor OD on the new prototype on the right, and the zinc finish of the motor on the right vs the chrome finish of the motor on the left:











Picture of the 6 layer CCAW voice coil and nomex spider during the build process:











And the finished product:


----------



## REGULARCAB

What is the depth on that beast now?


----------



## Electrodynamic

REGULARCAB said:


> What is the depth on that beast now?


2.3" (58.42mm).


----------



## REGULARCAB

Electrodynamic said:


> 2.3" (58.42mm).


perfecto  Just what my Rio doors are looking for.


----------



## bertholomey

Electrodynamic said:


> I had a pair of Koda 6's in an *Honda DelSol* of mine many years ago and I absolutely loved the way that they performed. In-car response was very very good and the midbass was almost "too much".


No wonder you and the #Doctor get along so well!



Electrodynamic said:


> Most notable differences are the slightly reduced mounting depth on the new prototype on the right, the larger motor OD on the new prototype on the right, and the zinc finish of the motor on the right vs the chrome finish of the motor on the left:


I have seen this picture, but I haven't noticed this thread.....just did a speed read while starting to really zone due to the zzyquil tablets :surprised: I'll go through it again tomorrow. I feel very privileged to have gotten some of the behind-the-scenes info on these during the process. I love how the finished product looks, and I'm looking forward to my first demo! Great job Nick - there is quite a buzz building around these drivers!


----------



## 4nic8R

I know a ton of harley bagger riders who will form a line for these!


----------



## quickaudi07

Oh my these look so nice  i can't wait to have a pair! Have you test the power in put or is that next on your list ??
Great job... and I haven't had a chance to hear your product but people reaction says it all!


----------



## deltasaurus

These drivers are looking like they may be one of the few midbass speakers smaller than an 8 that I could really get behind. Currently building systems in 2 comp cars and 2 daily drivers and I can definitely see trying a pair or so in at least one. I know this has been said before, and I am sure the idea has been discussed, but an 8 would get a really warm reception. Especially a shallow mount, to say, compete with the new C8, which is currently on duty in one of the builds. Looks Awesome!


----------



## 1fishman

So is the Xmax on these less, or more, than the Exodus Anarchy's?
I know there different ways of measuring x-max but the Anarchy's say 12MM x-max.These are 9mm.


----------



## jriggs

1fishman said:


> So is the Xmax on these less, or more, than the Exodus Anarchy's?
> I know there different ways of measuring x-max but the Anarchy's say 12MM x-max.These are 9mm.


Erin measured the Anarchy's linear Xmax to be 7.7mm.


----------



## REGULARCAB

1fishman said:


> So is the Xmax on these less, or more, than the Exodus Anarchy's?
> I know there different ways of measuring x-max but the Anarchy's say 12MM x-max.These are 9mm.


These are also a shallow design, the Anarchys are anything but.


----------



## sirbOOm

4nic8R said:


> I know a ton of harley bagger riders who will form a line for these!


Baggers... ug.


----------



## sirbOOm

Electrodynamic said:


> And a video showing excursion capability:


Sooo.... listening to this at max volume on my laptop blew the left laptop speaker sooooooo gonna need a set of these for free. 












Seriously it did. But let's just say its a Lenovo.


----------



## sirbOOm

I'll compare these to Pioneer Stage 4, Hertz ML 1600, and Image Dynamics X69 (6x9's) if I decide I want to try for more after I finally finish my install now that my f'ing truck's kinks are worked out and I won't be at the dealer once a week... I digress.


----------



## gckless

Seriously considering selling my 8 ohm Anarchys for a pair. I've got a bridged pair of channels on my Levi that would be perfect for these...Provided the FR looks good enough for a two-way.

You said before they need very little power, but rate them at 125W. What power ranges have you tested them? What power levels do they fall apart at in both IB and sealed arrangements?

Maybe I missed it, but when do you plan on having them available?


----------



## kizz

Nice work so far!! Excited for the pre-order date!


----------



## Electrodynamic

gckless said:


> Seriously considering selling my 8 ohm Anarchys for a pair. I've got a bridged pair of channels on my Levi that would be perfect for these...Provided the FR looks good enough for a two-way.
> 
> You said before they need very little power, but rate them at 125W. What power ranges have you tested them? *What power levels do they fall apart* at in both IB and sealed arrangements?
> 
> Maybe I missed it, but when do you plan on having them available?


I posted last night that no power testing has been performed on the driver yet as only one working prototype has been built. An additional working driver will be built tomorrow and I will power test it throughout the week and into next week. Where did I state the power handling of these drivers? Seriously, I don't remember stating a power figure but probably looking at 175 watts RMS. 

As for what power levels they "fall apart" at: I am not going to post a power figure of where the drivers fail at. Too many variables to take into consideration (frequency, enclosure size, enclosure type, clean power, clipped power, etc). I will post a safe RMS power rating and that is it.

I am still finalizing a few things with our metal parts vendor. As soon as everything is sorted out I will make a post about an ETA for the woofers. FWIW, these drivers are being assembled here in North Carolina.


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> So is the Xmax on these less, or more, than the Exodus Anarchy's?
> I know there different ways of measuring x-max but the Anarchy's say 12MM x-max.These are 9mm.





jriggs said:


> Erin measured the Anarchy's linear Xmax to be 7.7mm.





REGULARCAB said:


> These are also a shallow design, the Anarchys are anything but.


Xmax is rated at 9mm on our 6.5" shallow woofer. Anarchy's were rated at 12mm but measured at 7.7mm. As "REGULARCAB" said the Anarchy's were anything but a shallow woofer at over 3.66" mounting depth and the Anarchy's were also an oversized 6.5" that will not any 6.5" automotive speaker openings. Our shallow 6.5" is over 35% shallower than the Anarchy, our driver is lighter, our driver is dual voice coil (Anarchy's were single voice coil), and our driver fits in any normal 6.5" speaker opening where the Anarchy does not.


----------



## ChrisB

I'm just glad you decided to make a 6.5.


----------



## BEAVER

ChrisB said:


> I'm just glad you decided to make a 6.5.


Me, too. My Subaru doors allow a little over 3" of depth, but I'm limited to 6.5" in diameter. I can't even make a 7" driver work without building new panels.


----------



## gckless

Electrodynamic said:


> I posted last night that no power testing has been performed on the driver yet as only one working prototype has been built. An additional working driver will be built tomorrow and I will power test it throughout the week and into next week. Where did I state the power handling of these drivers? Seriously, I don't remember stating a power figure but probably looking at 175 watts RMS.
> 
> As for what power levels they "fall apart" at: I am not going to post a power figure of where the drivers fail at. Too many variables to take into consideration (frequency, enclosure size, enclosure type, clean power, clipped power, etc). I will post a safe RMS power rating and that is it.
> 
> I am still finalizing a few things with our metal parts vendor. As soon as everything is sorted out I will make a post about an ETA for the woofers. FWIW, these drivers are being assembled here in North Carolina.


Ya know what, I think I seen that 125W on Facebook. I'll follow this thread though. 

Completely understand not posting limits. We're gonna find em anyway lol. 

Lookin forward to these regardless.


----------



## Electrodynamic

gckless said:


> Ya know what, I think I seen that *125*W on Facebook. I'll follow this thread though.
> 
> Completely understand not posting limits. We're gonna find em anyway lol.
> 
> Lookin forward to these regardless.


You saw the price, not the power rating.


----------



## Electrodynamic

A regular 6.5" woofer on the left and our shallow TM65 on the right:


----------



## WhereAmEye?

Is the TM65 the mid that comes in the sundown component set? It looks very similar.


----------



## WhereAmEye?

Sorry I mean the mid on the left


----------



## gckless

Electrodynamic said:


> You saw the price, not the power rating.


Sheeeeesh, I did. :uhoh:

It's been a long couple of days lol.

Just take my money and gimme drivers!


----------



## Electrodynamic

gckless said:


> Sheeeeesh, I did. :uhoh:
> 
> It's been a long couple of days lol.
> 
> Just take my money and gimme drivers!


Haha, I was wondering where that figure came from and then I saw it.  

I sent the prototype pictured earlier to Red Rock Acoustics for Klippel testing to see how the voice coil is centered so I am going to hold off building the second prototype until I see the results from Klippel. My thought is I may have to center the coil more rearward on the next woofer before we start production. Getting this puppy right is critical and early Klippel testing will show us exactly what we need to do for production. I only have two more soft part sets available until I start production so I need to make the next woofer I build as correct as possible. 

AKA: Power testing will start once I build the second prototype after the initial Klippel test data comes back to us.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Since this is an update thread:

The production drivers will have motors with a chrome finish to them instead of the nickel finish. Let me explain:

The fist samples had beautiful chrome finished motors. The second, newest, samples had nickel finished motors. The first chrome samples had substiantially lower motor force than anticipated because the assembly plant said they had to drill and bolt the top plates together if a chrome finish was used. Drilling and bolting the top plates together reduced the magnet-to-top plate surface area causing the lower motor force on those samples. 

However, now, after a lot of back-and-forth, we are going to offer the drivers with a chrome finish to the motor. No drilling through the top plates. Just good, old-fashioned, proper treatment before assembling the pieces together and you get a better finished chrome motor.


----------



## casey

badass. Nick, I think you put more thought into your product than most companies. You definitely keep the process more updated.


----------



## Electrodynamic

casey said:


> badass. Nick, I think you put more thought into your product than most companies. You definitely keep the process more updated.


What do I know? I just toss parts in the air and hope they resemble a speaker when they hit the ground.  Hopefully this toss will result in a proper product.


----------



## Golden Ear

Electrodynamic said:


> Since this is an update thread:
> 
> The production drivers will have motors with a chrome finish to them instead of the nickel finish. Let me explain:
> 
> The fist samples had beautiful chrome finished motors. The second, newest, samples had nickel finished motors. The first chrome samples had substiantially lower motor force than anticipated because the assembly plant said they had to drill and bolt the top plates together if a chrome finish was used. Drilling and bolting the top plates together reduced the magnet-to-top plate surface area causing the lower motor force on those samples.
> 
> However, now, after a lot of back-and-forth, we are going to offer the drivers with a chrome finish to the motor. No drilling through the top plates. Just good, old-fashioned, proper treatment before assembling the pieces together and you get a better finished chrome motor.


Maybe I'm speaking for myself here but I don't think you should skimp on the sound or performance of the speaker for the looks. If the chromes gotta go to make it a better speaker then let it go. Obviously if you can get the best of both then do so, but since most people will be putting these in their doors or other locations where the back won't be seen the looks aren't very important compared to the sound. 

We're all rooting for you, Nick, and hoping these meet or exceed expectations.


----------



## M-Dub

Electrodynamic said:


> New sample parts are almost done. Just waiting on the copper shorting rings to be machined. Then it only takes a day for the motor to be assembled and bolted to the frame and then the rest of the un-assembled parts and the motor/basket will be shipped over to us.  Here is a picture of most of the new parts lineup (copper shorting ring not pictured):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you wondering what has been changed from the first prototype:
> 
> 1) Finish of the motor has been changed to Zinc.
> 2) Yoke has all new OD dimensions:
> - Backplate is 1mm thinner to reduce mounting depth.
> - Yoke now has flared gap vents and smooth flare pole ID opening.
> - Backplate OD is larger
> 3) Neo magnet has been increased to 90mm OD
> 4) Top plates are totally revised including:
> - New gap geometery for better BL symmetry
> - New gap geometery for more linear BL instead of a touch higher Xmax
> 5) Top top plate (there are two top plates) OD is smaller to match the basket better and also 1mm thinner at the flange for reduced mounting depth.
> 6) Flat Nomex spider with flat sewn-on leads (the first sample spider was a cupped spider [raised by 5mm above the spider landing] with round sewn-on leads which reduced rearward cone travel).
> 
> I think that's it.  This sample, and production, will utilize a D4 Ohm coil configuration.


What type of cone materiel is this using?


----------



## Electrodynamic

Golden Ear said:


> Maybe I'm speaking for myself here but I don't think you should skimp on the sound or performance of the speaker for the looks. If the chromes gotta go to make it a better speaker then let it go. Obviously if you can get the best of both then do so, but since most people will be putting these in their doors or other locations where the back won't be seen the looks aren't very important compared to the sound.
> 
> We're all rooting for you, Nick, and hoping these meet or exceed expectations.


I think you might have mis-read my post.  We are now getting the best of what we want: we are getting the finish we want _and_ we are getting the performance that we want.


----------



## Electrodynamic

M-Dub said:


> What type of cone materiel is this using?


It is a blend of wool and paper fibers that is coated to resist both UV and water damage.


----------



## Golden Ear

Electrodynamic said:


> I think you might have mis-read my post.  We are now getting the best of what we want: we are getting the finish we want _and_ we are getting the performance that we want.


Sounds good to me! My point was just that I think you'd sell many more speakers if they sounded good even if they didn't look good. Carry on, good sir


----------



## Guest

Looking forward to reading some new updates on these upcoming midbass'...


----------



## captainobvious

Loving the progress Nick.


----------



## Electrodynamic

I measured the production woofer mounting depth yesterday and it came in at 2.29". Not too shabby for a shallow 6.5" woofer with high Xmax.

The woofer is at Red Rock Acoustics right now being Klippel tested for the normal measurements _and_ for a complete FR measurement. I will post the data from the Klippel test in this thread once I get them back from Red Rock Acoustics.

And just because I think it's cool here is the excursion video again:


----------



## Electrodynamic

The green light has been given for production of the motor parts and soft parts. :beerchug: I will update this thread with any/all news on pre-ordering, ETA's, etc.


----------



## REGULARCAB

:gossip::beerchug:epper:


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Woohoo!!!


----------



## etroze

Sweet can't wait for a couple pair


----------



## foreman

Waiting with finger on paypal button!!!!


----------



## Guest

LOL.... I'm right there with you...

PayPal at the ready...


----------



## zinophile

So glad I wandered into this post! Gonna be very nice speakers. Fingers standing by, too...


----------



## adriancp

Subscribed! Looking forward to pre-order!


----------



## MattS2K

When will we be able to pre order?


----------



## foreman

As soon as Nick says so 






MattS2K said:


> When will we be able to pre order?


----------



## tdgesq

Please post driver and cutout diameters as soon as you know them. Will be ordering four of these if I can make them fit.


----------



## Electrodynamic

tdgesq said:


> Please post driver and cutout diameters as soon as you know them. Will be ordering four of these if I can make them fit.


Outside Diameter of the basket: 167mm (6.57")
Cutout Diameter: 143mm (5.63")
Mounting Depth: 58.16mm (2.29")


----------



## Guest

So..... preorders ... coming soon ????

Sent from my SM-G900V


----------



## fredridge

Nick - estimate on how far out from delivery? Is it like 2-3 months or more like 6-8?

I think these will work perfect for me install, but I am hoping to have it done in November or more likely January.


----------



## snaimpally

Shallow mount is always good. I'll probably get a pair to play with. 

I want to echo the sentiment of others on this thread and request an 8". If you can keep the mounting depth around the same (58mm) it would be a great option for BMW owners like myself.


----------



## Electrodynamic

fredridge said:


> Nick - estimate on how far out from delivery? Is it like 2-3 months or more like 6-8?
> 
> I think these will work perfect for me install, but I am hoping to have it done in November or more likely January.


3 months, give or take a little.  Just have to iron out a few packing details and other small details.


----------



## Guest

Good deal... can't wait...

Sent from my SM-G900V


----------



## fredridge

cool, I'm in. I'll keep an eye out for details




Electrodynamic said:


> 3 months, give or take a little.  Just have to iron out a few packing details and other small details.


----------



## tdgesq

Electrodynamic said:


> Outside Diameter of the basket: 167mm (6.57")
> Cutout Diameter: 143mm (5.63")
> Mounting Depth: 58.16mm (2.29")


Thanks! The OD will be close, but I think I can squeeze them in.


----------



## Electrodynamic

A couple of pictures I took on Friday. These are pictures of the smaller OD motor prototype without gap vents but the finish will be the same so these pictures are being used for the web page until the chrome production units are made:


----------



## REGULARCAB

sure do got a purdy mouth mmmmhmmmmm

Sorry I got a little carried away there. I want some.


----------



## fredridge

I think I'm in love.


----------



## Electrodynamic

REGULARCAB said:


> sure do got a purdy mouth mmmmhmmmmm
> 
> Sorry I got a little carried away there. I want some.


 Sorry for the crappy pictures but they will suffice until the production units are ready.

Our new web page might be up as early as tomorrow night. When the new web page is up you guys will be able to pre-order these drivers. Note that we are getting a goood bit of these drivers in (over 500pcs) but we may have to shut down pre-ordering depending on how many drivers are pre-sold. I will not over-sell a production run. I'd rather shut it down and make sure I am able to ship out drivers to everyone than keep ordering open and end up giving refunds due to being out of stock. Lastly note that these drivers are being assembled here in North Carolina by a small handful of speaker builders so it may take our build team (which I am a part of) some time to build the drivers when the parts arrive.


----------



## Guest

Fantastic news !!!

Sent from my SM-G900V


----------



## WhereAmEye?

Sounds good, can't wait!


----------



## gckless

Gimme!


----------



## quickaudi07

oh boy cant wait  looks like this might be an early X-MAS present to me !


----------



## Electrodynamic

Ok, time for an update:

Good news and bad news:

Good news is that Red Rock Acoustics has the TM65 production sample to run a few Klippel tests. Bad news is that in my haste to pack the woofer I forgot to protect the front of the driver and the driver showed up to Red Rocks with the entire moving assembly shoved inward. Good news is that I know exactly what to do for packing the production units so that does not happen again. Other good news is Patrick has left the woofer in a jig over the weekend to see if he can return the woofer back to rest position. Additional good news is that I have three sets of soft parts for the two production motor samples that I received recently. That means that I am going to build up an additional driver tomorrow and ship it out (with correct packing!) to Red Rock Acoustics to be Klippel tested and have them send me back the driver that I messed up. I will then rebuild that woofer with the last set of soft parts that I have so I will end up with a pair of good TM65 mid/woofers for use in my Jetta.

*Note* I will have this driver Klippel tested as Klippel testing provides the most comprehensive testing that we[anyone] is aware of. It is standardized and is used world-wide as THE standard. Without a standardized measurement system all of us would be hoping that customers believed the specs we threw at the wall without any actual measurements on real drivers. Projections are one thing...actual measured data are another.


----------



## REGULARCAB

+1 for full disclosure


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Are these only going to be available for preorder, ie the 500 or so pieces, or will there be more once that preorder period is over. I really want to get in on this but it may be a month or two till the funds are there.


----------



## Electrodynamic

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Are these only going to be available for preorder, ie the 500 or so pieces, or will there be more once that preorder period is over. I really want to get in on this but it may be a month or two till the funds are there.


Pre-order price is good until the parts come in, which should be at/around late December of this year. If I have to stop pre-ordering early due to the quantity of TM65's pre-ordered I will have ordered more parts to be on the way to avoid any lull in available stock. Basically there will only be one pre-order, not two or three, etc.


----------



## Guest

So pre-order begins once the website gets updated ?

Sent from my SM-G900V


----------



## Electrodynamic

See below.



SQ_MDX said:


> So pre-order begins once the website gets updated ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V





Electrodynamic said:


> Our new web page might be up as early as tomorrow night. *When the new web page is up you guys will be able to pre-order these drivers.*


----------



## Guest

Thank you sir !

Sent from my SM-G900V


----------



## quickaudi07

Is it still 150$ per driver when we do a huge group buy???


----------



## REGULARCAB

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I really want to get in on this but it may be a month or two till the funds are there.


Im right there with you man. I just figure if these get bought out Ill either wait for normal production or..... cut somebody because I missed out on something good again because im a broke ass :laugh:


----------



## Electrodynamic

quickaudi07 said:


> Is it still 150$ per driver when we do a huge group buy???


Regular price will be $125 each plus shipping. Pre-order price will be $99 each plus shipping. But if you want to pay $150 each I won't turn it down.


----------



## quickaudi07

Lol I was just asking and wanted to be clear  so the website will be open today for pre-order?


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

I guess I was more asking if there were going to be more than 500 available, regardless of pricing, or if the run of 500 was it.


----------



## quickaudi07

I think if these little guys do a good job, there will be more made without a problem.


----------



## Electrodynamic

If ordering nears 500pcs more parts will be ordered to make sure the supply stays constant. I'm pretty sure I've said that before in this thread. I did say that before...on this page:


> Pre-order price is good until the parts come in, which should be at/around late December of this year. If I have to stop pre-ordering early due to the quantity of TM65's pre-ordered I will have ordered more parts to be on the way to avoid any lull in available stock. Basically there will only be one pre-order, not two or three, etc.


The new web site should be up very soon.


----------



## quickaudi07

Is it up yet ?? that didn't sound right but yea is the web site up yet


----------



## 1fishman

Hey Nick, I guess you need all the final numbers first, but if you could tell what you think the idea sealed enclose size is for these drivers should be, i would appreciate it.


----------



## foreman

I think im speaking for others as well here....im beginning to twitch with my paypal link permanently open.....waiting to pay for these...


----------



## Electrodynamic

Still finishing up the web page but as soon as the web page is up you guys will have the ability to place your pre-orders. All of the main engineers, managers, controllers, etc, of the parts facility that is supplying the hard parts for these drivers are at the IFA 2014 show in Berlin until the 10'th of this month. We should be able to have the parts order finalized by the end of this week. After the parts order is initiated it should take around 90 days to get everything in. Hopefully there are no delays at customs, etc, and we can get the parts in on/around the middle of December. After the parts come in we will be busting our butts hand-building these little monsters and shipping them out.


----------



## quickaudi07

Nick, I can't wait!


----------



## quickaudi07

Nick,

Can you please send me an email or how can i contact you?

Thank You


----------



## Electrodynamic

quickaudi07 said:


> Nick,
> 
> Can you please send me an email or how can i contact you?
> 
> Thank You


All of the email addresses on my web page work. [email protected], [email protected], etc. And by "si" I mean the full "stereointegrity".com.


----------



## Electrodynamic

The site should be up tonight but ordering and/or pre-ordering may not be available until later tomorrow. Still a few things to iron out once the server switch gets ironed out.


----------



## fredridge

Nick,

I see it up. To be clear, the price is for each driver so we need to order "2" if we want a pair, correct? 

was about to order two drivers, but shipping is showing $44.20 to california. is that correct?



Electrodynamic said:


> The site should be up tonight but ordering and/or pre-ordering may not be available until later tomorrow. Still a few things to iron out once the server switch gets ironed out.


----------



## quickaudi07

fredridge said:


> Nick,
> 
> I see it up. To be clear, the price is for each driver so we need to order "2" if we want a pair, correct?
> 
> was about to order two drivers, but shipping is showing $44.20 to california. is that correct?


Where are you seeing this ordering? are you sure you taking about the correct drivers?


----------



## balane

Whoa, can somebody look at shipping please? $44.20 to ship two smallish drivers seems pretty high. I want to pre-order two of these but I think there might be a mistake here.


----------



## balane

This is to Washington state.


----------



## fredridge

interesting... i was on my desktop and the new site showed up.... on my tablet it's the old site




quickaudi07 said:


> Where are you seeing this ordering? are you sure you taking about the correct drivers?


----------



## balane

I think they may have just copied a page template for a subwoofer and somebody didn't adjust the item weight, only the item description and price. That seems about right on for shipping a pair of large subwoofers to me. I'm sure they'll get it fixed.


----------



## Electrodynamic

We are located in North Carolina. Shipping to California, NM, WA, etc, will be expensive even though the shipping weight is minimal. We base our shipping fees on FedEx's online software. Additionally, our drivers are over-packed meaning that they are packed and shipped in much larger shipping boxes than is absolutely necessary. We would rather have the drivers you ordered arrive to you safely and charge a fraction more than potentially charge less and have you end up with a mess of broken magnets, shifted top plates, a t-yoke un-glued and laying in the bottom of the shipping box, etc.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Yeah shipping isn't cheap like it used to be, especially for us in the PNW where we are furthest in the lower 48 from most manufacturers. Pretty sure I've funded a USPS employee's salary this year alone with Priority mail fees.


----------



## REGULARCAB

All this complaining about the shipping. Is no one else super fricken stoked that these things are coming out?


----------



## balane

I didn't mean my post to come off as a complaint, far from it. Even with $44 shipping it's still a tremendous bargain. Shipping does seem high to me but it is what it is and even at $122 each, delivered, I'm betting nothing will come close to these anywhere near that price. If there was a mistake I'm sure they'd like to know about it.


----------



## bertholomey

balane said:


> I didn't mean my post to come off as a complaint, far from it. Even with $44 shipping it's still a tremendous bargain. Shipping does seem high to me but it is what it is and even at $122 each, delivered, I'm betting nothing will come close to these anywhere near that price. If there was a mistake I'm sure they'd like to know about it.


And Nick is right about the shipping......My Mag was double boxed and the woofer was enclosed in a protective cotton (or silk or poly bag - can't remember exactly what it was made of ). Receiving a poorly packaged / damaged product hurts the consumer and the seller. 

And at the asking price of the drivers.......I'm sure some out there would have priced these at $400+ a pair.....Nick did a great job balancing materials with the quality of assembling them locally. 

But you are exactly right Balane - it could have been a glitch that would have been better to have been caught earlier rather than later. I'm really expecting these to be amazing!


----------



## 1fishman

fredridge said:


> Nick,
> 
> I see it up. To be clear, the price is for each driver so we need to order "2" if we want a pair, correct?
> 
> was about to order two drivers, but shipping is showing $44.20 to california. is that correct?


The shipping calculator has the MK IV subs, and the TM65, as the same shipping price. For me it is$18 for one, $36 for 2,


----------



## crea_78

The speakers will definitely be double boxed. Just be glad you don't live in NC b/c we have to pay tax on top of everything else. Being close to their shop does help with the expense for some of us.


----------



## fredridge

I didn't order last night, was waiting for confirmation on shipping,

but it looks like it is back on the old site.... can anyone else confirm this?


----------



## teldzc1

Hi I might have missed it. How long is the pre order going to last?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

fredridge said:


> Nick,
> 
> I see it up. To be clear, the price is for each driver so we need to order "2" if we want a pair, correct?
> 
> was about to order two drivers, but shipping is showing $44.20 to california. is that correct?


To California, probably. Our rates are direct from FedEx. Two 6.5's packed up will consist of a 12" cube that weighs at least 20 lbs. Sounds about right traveling completely across the United States.

And yes, the price is PER driver. If you want a pair of drivers you need to purchase two speakers.


----------



## quickaudi07

I haven't seen anything on your website in regards to these drivers .. I'm not bind am i?


----------



## MattS2K

TM65 6.5″ Woofer | Stereo Integrity


----------



## MattS2K

Question for Nick. Are our cards being charged now in the full amount, or only once they are shipped in January?


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> Hey Nick, I guess you need all the final numbers first, but if you could tell what you think the idea sealed enclose size is for these drivers should be, i would appreciate it.


Sealed = 0.25 ft^3
Ported = 0.45 to 0.48 ft^3 tuned to 58 Hz

Or Infinite Baffle in a car door.


----------



## WhiteL02

I too was wondering if the cards get charged now or when the speakers ship?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Very nice looking design Nick.

IFA puts a dent in everything this time of the year.

I'm minding the store for the owner over here to. The owner is in Berlin.

Just looked at your site.

Nice!


----------



## quickaudi07

Ok I just put my order through oh yea I did it !


----------



## quickaudi07

I noticed that my money wasn't taken from paypal i guess they are free  j/k 

Nick if you could be so kind and take the money, i just want that to be out of my way and i wont have to worry about down the road that i don't have enough of $ in my account. Also don't want to go on negative either.

Thank You

Mariusz (Mario) S


----------



## tbomb

FR measurements? did i miss them?


----------



## pocket5s

Account creation doesn't work. the my-account page doesn't exist.
Couldn't checkout due to error code 10410, invalid token.


----------



## Guest

Placed an order for a pair

Sent from my SM-G900V


----------



## Babs

I've tried to skim through the thread somewhat on this, but is this driver more for mid-bass duty in a 3-way, or will it have a smooth enough response up into 2-way territory? What kind of in-door low-pass would be about the upper limit for them before breakup?

Running pretty robust NVX tweets for the current build which will reach fairly low, but wanted to inquire.


----------



## rton20s

Per Nick and his website the driver provides "high frequency extension up to 2,500 Hz." 

If your NVX tweeters are the SB Acoustics sourced models, I think you'll be in good shape.


----------



## jpf150

Just for fun I modeled this woofer against my rs180 in wisd. I'll try to post some screen shots tonight. I'm not an expert in using Winisd so I'll double check myself.


----------



## gckless

How long is the preorder going to run? And you mentioned before a rating of possibly 175W, though I don't see a rating on the website. Still going to rate it there?


----------



## 1fishman

gckless said:


> How long is the preorder going to run? And you mentioned before a rating of possibly 175W, though I don't see a rating on the website. Still going to rate it there?


pre-ordering thread,, looks like through dec for preordering
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/167459-tm65-pre-ordering-open.html


----------



## kaigoss69

snaimpally said:


> Shallow mount is always good. I'll probably get a pair to play with.
> 
> I want to echo the sentiment of others on this thread and request an 8". If you can keep the mounting depth around the same (58mm) it would be a great option for BMW owners like myself.


I bet these will have more output than most available 8" shallow drivers that fit the BMWs. My 10" Morels have 4 mm x-max (one-way). I'm too tired now to calculate but I bet these will come close to the displacement of the Morels, if x-max is one-way. They look impressive.


----------



## Electrodynamic

jpf150 said:


> Just for fun I modeled this woofer against my rs180 in wisd. I'll try to post some screen shots tonight. I'm not an expert in using Winisd so I'll double check myself.


In the short of it - the RS180 is a larger driver (7") compared to a regular fitting 6.5" woofer, it is 49% deeper than the TM65 at 3.3" deep compared to the TM65's 2.29" mounting depth, and the RS180 requires a ported enclosure that is 3x larger than the TM9 requires. The RS180 plays deeper under lower power but it will not keep up regarding output above port tuning compared to the TM9. So if you've got non-standard hole cutout size and an enclosure 3x larger than what the TM9 calls for and you don't mind playing -3 dB quieter with higher distortion (RS180 is not a linear topology driver) the RS180 might be a formidable option for you. If you already have the Dayton RS180 and are happy with it by all means stick with it.


----------



## Electrodynamic

kaigoss69 said:


> I bet these will have more output than most available 8" shallow drivers that fit the BMWs. My 10" Morels have 4 mm x-max (one-way). I'm too tired now to calculate but I bet these will come close to the displacement of the Morels, if x-max is one-way. They look impressive.


Your make of car, BMW, was one of the biggest criteria for the design of the TM65. Those cars are notorious for requiring shallow mounting depth and regular sized (not oversized) drivers. The TM65 is a miniscule 2.29" deep and offers great midbass due to its high linear stroke. Now you BMW guys can have some serious midbass out of your 6.5" door speakers. And with the TM65 being a DVC woofer you can wire your stereo amplifiers down to 2 Ohm per mid/woofer and give yourself a little added headroom.


----------



## jpf150

I modeled them for use IB use(gonna look at ported and sealed when I have some free time) and the RS180 looks like it runs out of steam quickly compared to your driver with the linearity, xmax, and high power rating. I'll be interested to see the FR plots you get back. I am using the wide flange vifa's right now and they will play low enough to mate up to a lot of good drivers. I have the rs180's in right now but would love to be able to try out your drivers. Especially since the magnet of my rs180s rub my window tract just a hair.


----------



## kaigoss69

Electrodynamic said:


> Your make of car, BMW, was one of the biggest criteria for the design of the TM65. Those cars are notorious for requiring shallow mounting depth and regular sized (not oversized) drivers. The TM65 is a miniscule 2.29" deep and offers great midbass due to its high linear stroke. Now you BMW guys can have some serious midbass out of your 6.5" door speakers. And with the TM65 being a DVC woofer you can wire your stereo amplifiers down to 2 Ohm per mid/woofer and give yourself a little added headroom.


The OEM 8" midbass is located under the seats! If you were to come out with an 8 that fits BMWs, your mounting depth cannot be any more than that of the 6.5 which may already be too deep for an OEM fit (no mods). Look at the Earthquake SWS-8, they fit, just barely.

While BMW audio enthusiasts like Snaimpally and myself will gladly mod the underseat enclosures to make a driver fit, most other BMW owners will not, so keep that in mind.


----------



## rton20s

So Nick, now that the pre-order is underway and the TM65 is old news, what are the chances you'll start working on a scaled down 3", 4 Ohm DVC, XBL^2 midrange?


----------



## Guest

LOL... 

Yeah old news !!!
What's new in the pipeline....

Sent from my SM-G900V


----------



## 1fishman

tbomb said:


> FR measurements? did i miss them?


I found them on the website


----------



## LaserSVT

Ya know if he did a really good tweeter..... like a Beryllium then I would sell off my Hertz and PHD components and go all SI. 

I am anxious to see how these compare to the Hertz ML1600 mids.


----------



## fredridge

Have my speakers shipped yet oke::jester:


----------



## bertholomey

I don't want to rub it in too much, but I had the opportunity to caress the backside of one of these little beauties. 

It is a great looking driver! I was especially impressed with the heft of the driver. Unfortunately, we didn't have a chance to hook it up, but something tells me she is not just a pretty face. These are going to be special drivers!


----------



## Woosey

kaigoss69 said:


> The OEM 8" midbass is located under the seats! If you were to come out with an 8 that fits BMWs, your mounting depth cannot be any more than that of the 6.5 which may already be too deep for an OEM fit (no mods). Look at the Earthquake SWS-8, they fit, just barely.
> 
> While BMW audio enthusiasts like Snaimpally and myself will gladly mod the underseat enclosures to make a driver fit, most other BMW owners will not, so keep that in mind.


Look for the Gladen Extreme BMW woofers... they're good... sorry SI


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Woosey said:


> Look for the Gladen Extreme BMW woofers... they're good... sorry SI


How much do the Gladen Extreme woofers cost?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Architect7 said:


> How much do the Gladen Extreme woofers cost?


Gladen ONE LINE BMW 201 EXTREME – Plug & Play 3-way System – BMW 1, 3 and 5 Series | Monster Audio Design

Do the math man.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Woosey said:


> Look for the Gladen Extreme BMW woofers... they're good... sorry SI





Architect7 said:


> How much do the Gladen Extreme woofers cost?


Nothing to be sorry about..especially after seeing their price. I'd like to see some actual information on the driver besides "shallow 8" driver" and "they're good" before I feel a certain way about their performance.


----------



## The Dude

Electrodynamic said:


> We are located in North Carolina. Shipping to California, NM, WA, etc, will be expensive even though the shipping weight is minimal.


Any chance of shipping to Canada via USPS? Thanks


----------



## tjswarbrick

Tempting, tempting.

Updated website looks great!


----------



## Electrodynamic

tjswarbrick said:


> Tempting, tempting.
> 
> Updated website looks great!


Thanks! We are very happy with the new site outcome. The new site offically brings our web page into 2014.


----------



## quickaudi07

Nick what else are you planning on building ???? Subs are there mid sub shallow speaker is made now what?


----------



## Golden Ear

quickaudi07 said:


> Nick what else are you planning on building ???? Subs are there mid sub shallow speaker is made now what?


Huh?


----------



## tjswarbrick

I think that's his subtle way of asking for a long-excursion, low-profile, XBL^2 motor 8" dedicated midbass.
Or, maybe that's just me...


----------



## rton20s

tjswarbrick said:


> I think that's his subtle way of asking for a long-excursion, low-profile, XBL^2 motor 8" dedicated midbass.
> Or, maybe that's just me...


Just you. 3" midrange next.


----------



## Electrodynamic

quickaudi07 said:


> Nick what else are you planning on building ???? Subs are there mid sub shallow speaker is made now what?





tjswarbrick said:


> I think that's his subtle way of asking for a long-excursion, low-profile, XBL^2 motor 8" dedicated midbass.
> Or, maybe that's just me...


One step at a time fellas. I don't have unlimited funding so I have to manage where my funds go so it is one driver at a time for now. When/if there is any announcement, data, progress, etc, on any other drivers I will post it on DIYMA. Lets not go off topic in this thread dedicated to the shallow TM65 woofer.


----------



## snaimpally

Woosey said:


> Look for the Gladen Extreme BMW woofers... they're good... sorry SI


I have the Jehnert XE200s currently (check my sig). I have Mosconi amps so I am aware of Gladen but don't think the Gladens would significantly improve upon the Jehnerts. 

Jehnert, as part of their doorboard system, has a shallow mount 6.5" that fits in the BMW underseat enclosure to replace the OEM 8" so I think the SI's shallow mount driver should work in the stock enclosure. The Jehnert XM165 has a mounting depth of 64mm whereas the SI 6.5" has a mounting depth of 58mm. For $200/pair I will be ordering a set from SI to try them.


----------



## steelbreeze

Just tried to order to see how much postage would be to Australia. It said "Sorry, shipping is unavailable to Australia. If you require assistance or wish to make alternate arrangements please contact us."

I couldn't see a way to email from that page, could someone please advise me how much postage on a pair would be to Sydney, Australia?


----------



## Electrodynamic

steelbreeze said:


> Just tried to order to see how much postage would be to Australia. It said "Sorry, shipping is unavailable to Australia. If you require assistance or wish to make alternate arrangements please contact us."
> 
> I couldn't see a way to email from that page, could someone please advise me how much postage on a pair would be to Sydney, Australia?


Hrm, thanks for the update on our web page. I'll make sure our web guy knows that there is no email link on that page. Shoot me an email to [email protected] and I'll get you a shipping quote.


----------



## SO20thCentury

HELLLLLP! I'm getting pushed off my warm, comfortable, passive shelf into the scary active abyss! 
Some comfort knowing my BM MKIV has shipped:rockon:


----------



## Electrodynamic

SO20thCentury said:


> HELLLLLP! I'm getting pushed off my warm, comfortable, passive shelf into the scary active abyss!
> Some comfort knowing my BM MKIV has shipped:rockon:


You will need to email me at [email protected] instead of posting on a public forum under an anonymous screen name without any of your details so we can respond to you properly.

*additonally* this subject is entirely off topic. Please email us instead of posting in an un-related thread. Thanks, Nick.


----------



## steelbreeze

Electrodynamic said:


> You will need to email me at [email protected] instead of posting on a public forum under an anonymous screen name without any of your details so we can respond to you properly.
> 
> *additonally* this subject is entirely off topic. Please email us instead of posting in an un-related thread. Thanks, Nick.


I'm pretty sure he was joking, Nick. I have the same apprehensions about buying raw drivers as well, but I think the way things are going for me, it's inevitable really... :laugh:


----------



## jriggs

Any updates on the Redrock klipple testing?


----------



## capea4

Nick,
I pre ordered a pair and I have a tough question.
What's the chance I can get a pair with the overall diameter at 160mm, I've seen people turn drivers on a lathe to trim them down but if I could get them already done that would be perfect.
Additional fee? No chance at all?


----------



## capea4

Also, 
Sorry,
When you redid the website all the picture links on this thread went down...
BTW


----------



## Bruneti

Electrodynamic said:


> With these 6.5's being used, every driver in my car will utilize XBL^2. Tweeter, mid/bass, and subwoofers.


Can you share what XBL^2 Tweeter you will be using? Is this tweeter available for purchase? If so, from where? I'm interested in learning more about this tweeter also...


----------



## rton20s

Bruneti said:


> Can you share what XBL^2 Tweeter you will be using? Is this tweeter available for purchase? If so, from where? I'm interested in learning more about this tweeter also...


From the http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/164686-kaxbltwt-groupbuy.html thread:


Electrodynamic said:


> I've got a pair of these sitting my office desk that will be installed in my VW Jetta once I get my XBL^2 mids finalized. Seeing the data on these tweeters has me extremely excited about using them in my install.


----------



## capea4

rton20s said:


> From the http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/164686-kaxbltwt-groupbuy.html thread:


Like a giggling child:laugh:

"Yea I got those too"

Lol


----------



## Electrodynamic

capea4 said:


> Nick,
> I pre ordered a pair and I have a tough question.
> What's the chance I can get a pair with the overall diameter at 160mm, I've seen people turn drivers on a lathe to trim them down but if I could get them already done that would be perfect.
> Additional fee? No chance at all?


No chance at all. The mounting holes are centered at 155mm and the holes are 4.2mm wide so you would be cutting into the OD of the mounting holes leaving an un-finished circle for a mounting hole.


----------



## Electrodynamic

capea4 said:


> Also,
> Sorry,
> When you redid the website all the picture links on this thread went down...
> BTW


Thanks for pointing that out. I'll call my web guy in a few minutes and have a little chat with him. I need those pictures back up and all of the other pictures and documents that were on the server.


----------



## Electrodynamic

jriggs said:


> Any updates on the Redrock klipple testing?


I'm beginning to wonder myself. I haven't heard from Red Rock Acoustics in almost a week. I've sent three emails to them asking if the driver got there without any damage, how it is measuring, etc, but no reply yet.


----------



## bdmach1

Electrodynamic said:


> I'm beginning to wonder myself. I haven't heard from Red Rock Acoustics in almost a week. I've sent three emails to them asking if the driver got there without any damage, how it is measuring, etc, but no reply yet.



That's a little rude imo. They could have shot you a quick email letting you know that they at least received them! Nobody is THAT busy....


----------



## quickaudi07

Don't you hate that Nick?? When you selling product is depending on someone todo a some testing so you could pass it down to us. It's life Noone knows what could have happen. I'm in no rush


----------



## Electrodynamic

quickaudi07 said:


> Don't you hate that Nick?? When you selling product is depending on someone todo a some testing so you could pass it down to us. It's life Noone knows what could have happen. I'm in no rush


I know Patrick is busy so I'm in no immediate rush. I know he will get back to me when he has the time.


----------



## SO20thCentury

What is the OD of the back plate? I have window track clearance to deal with besides clinging to my "passive" shelf. Sorry about the devil-horns earlier - got a little over-excited about the aforementioned shipment.


----------



## Electrodynamic

SO20thCentury said:


> What is the OD of the back plate? I have window track clearance to deal with besides clinging to my "passive" shelf. Sorry about the devil-horns earlier - got a little over-excited about the aforementioned shipment.


The OD of the backplate is 90.0mm with a radius cut from 90.0mm OD to a radius curve of 8.0mm to a depth of 9.0mm thickness.


----------



## SO20thCentury

epper::beerchug::cwm8: ordered! nThanks!


----------



## steelbreeze

Hi Nick, not sure if you're not getting my emails, but I'm still trying to get a quote on two TM65's to Sydney, Australia...


----------



## Electrodynamic

steelbreeze said:


> Hi Nick, not sure if you're not getting my emails, but I'm still trying to get a quote on two TM65's to Sydney, Australia...


I think I just replied to your email.


----------



## Electrodynamic

While I sort out what is going on with our FTP access [why photos are not showing up even though I am linking them directly as it shows in FTP] here is an attached image of the cone finish I have chosen to go with. During the process of water treating and UV treating the cone we were given the choice to give the cone a satin finish or a glossy finish. Before anyone asks, the dust caps will have the same finish as the cone. I chose the glossy finish because IMO it looks better than the satin finish.


----------



## steelbreeze

Electrodynamic said:


> I think I just replied to your email.


Got it, thanks for that, Nick.

It's beautiful here in Sydney, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but it sucks when you want to get heavy speakers posted here!!


----------



## steelbreeze

Electrodynamic said:


> While I sort out what is going on with our FTP access [why photos are not showing up even though I am linking them directly as it shows in FTP] here is an attached image of the cone finish I have chosen to go with. During the process of water treating and UV treating the cone we were given the choice to give the cone a satin finish or a glossy finish. Before anyone asks, the dust caps will have the same finish as the cone. I chose the glossy finish because IMO it looks better than the satin finish.


I like the satin finish better! But who cares if it sounds the same. It'd be behind the grill for me anyway.

About the pictures, usually if the picture url on your ftp is



Code:


ftp://hostername.com/sitename/pics/001.jpg

for example, then the http link to the pics will just be



Code:


http://sitename.com/pics/001.jpg

so the IMG tags you have to put in your message are:



Code:


[PLAIN][IMG]http://sitename.com/pics/001.jpg[/IMG][/PLAIN]

Don't know if that helps, but it might...


----------



## Electrodynamic

steelbreeze said:


> I like the satin finish better! But who cares if it sounds the same. It'd be behind the grill for me anyway.


The thing I did not like about the satin finish is it gets rid of being able to see the paper and woll strands in the cone. And the glossy finish looks like the thin CA glue that we use to make the drivers.  



> About the pictures, usually if the picture url on your ftp is
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ftp://hostername.com/sitename/pics/001.jpg
> 
> for example, then the http link to the pics will just be
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> http://sitename.com/pics/001.jpg
> 
> so the IMG tags you have to put in your message are:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [IMG]http://sitename.com/pics/001.jpg[/IMG]
> 
> Don't know if that helps, but it might...


Yeah, that's what I'm doing but it keeps sending me to the TM65 web page. I'll call my web guy in a few minutes and chat with him about it.


----------



## LaserSVT

I like the glossy.


----------



## Bruneti

I like the satin. The satin surround and cone look like they belong together with their gloss match.


----------



## tjswarbrick

I prefer the look of the satin, but would not chose a pair of drivers based on the color of their cone.


----------



## fredridge

I like whichever one gets it delivered faster 

Actually, all things being equal, I like the satin


----------



## rton20s

I like the glossy. Just kidding. Satin _looks_ better. That being said, I'm with the others. Whichever sounds best, or gets the drivers out quicker is the better choice.


----------



## crea_78

Satin definitely looks better. Was able to see the prototype a couple weeks ago and man are these small... but in a good way


----------



## balane

For what little it's worth I definitely prefer the satin over the gloss. The satin looks like a more high end driver to my eyes. The gloss is more comparable to something I would expect to see on a Walmart sound board. But, ultimately it doesn't matter as long as it sounds great.


----------



## LaserSVT

Dang Nick, guess only you and me like the gloss. I better start ordering some speakers! LOL


----------



## Electrodynamic

I think you guys will like the gloss on production. I'm going with the glossy finish.  Maybe it was the killing of the fiber visibility that lost me on the satin finish. But you guys will like the gloss finish. Most of you guys are going to be hiding the drivers behind factory grilles anyway...or putting them face down (or face up) in an underseat ported enclosure.


----------



## foreman

i like the glossy, may not be better than the satin for water resistance, but it gives me a warmer fuzzy


----------



## LaserSVT

Yeah that Fs is nice. Should have solid midbass. Now that I think about it, I wonder how one would do in my Klipsch sub box. I have a Dayton Classic in there now that is WAY better than the Klipsch but I bet that TM would sound pretty good in there. If it does you could sell the hell out of them on Ebay. Guys are always losing the sub driver on the promedia systems and the aftermarket is limited.


----------



## steelbreeze

foreman said:


> i like the glossy, may not be better than the satin for water resistance, but it gives me a warmer fuzzy


Since these would go in my car front doors, would they have any water resistance, or would a baffle be necessary?


----------



## Electrodynamic

steelbreeze said:


> Since these would go in my car front doors, would they have any water resistance, or would a baffle be necessary?





Electrodynamic said:


> While I sort out what is going on with our FTP access [why photos are not showing up even though I am linking them directly as it shows in FTP] here is an attached image of the cone finish I have chosen to go with. During the process of *water treating and UV treating the cone* we were given the choice to give the cone a satin finish or a glossy finish. Before anyone asks, the dust caps will have the same finish as the cone. I chose the glossy finish because IMO it looks better than the satin finish.


One page back.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Was holding off until production got closer, until I saw the "closeout" on the BM MKIV's. Now it's all over...


----------



## quickaudi07

Tj did u pull a trigger on them ???


----------



## tjswarbrick

quickaudi07 said:


> Tj did u pull a trigger on them ???


Awww yeah. 

Now I just need to figure out what the next car's going to be... It's probably still a year or so out, but most of my speakers are still under development anyway.


----------



## Guest

Any new info on the progress of these....?


----------



## fredridge

What are you talking about, I already have mine installed  



SQ_TSX said:


> Any new info on the progress of these....?


----------



## Guest

LOL....

All about who you know....


----------



## tjswarbrick

SQ_TSX said:


> LOL....
> 
> All about who you know....


Great! Where's the build log, and review / listening impressions?


----------



## Woosey

snaimpally said:


> I have the Jehnert XE200s currently (check my sig). I have Mosconi amps so I am aware of Gladen but don't think the Gladens would significantly improve upon the Jehnerts.
> 
> Jehnert, as part of their doorboard system, has a shallow mount 6.5" that fits in the BMW underseat enclosure to replace the OEM 8" so I think the SI's shallow mount driver should work in the stock enclosure. The Jehnert XM165 has a mounting depth of 64mm whereas the SI 6.5" has a mounting depth of 58mm. For $200/pair I will be ordering a set from SI to try them.


Not every BMW has 8" drivers under the seats, there are versions with a 6,5" woofer in a 8" "basket".. 

The BMW extreme ( 2ohm ) woofers are a very good upgrade if you ask me, I have asked the specs for them, and if I get them I will post them here.. 

The difference between the regular and extreme version is also very significant imo... The 2ohm version digs really low for what they are... After some playtime most customers return to turn them a tad down.. 

I'll try to do some measurements myself this afternoon for some parameters..


----------



## quality_sound

They may not all have 8s but they can all accept an 8.


----------



## Electrodynamic

SQ_TSX said:


> Any new info on the progress of these....?


Metal parts are still being gathered and machined and the outside box printing has been finalized but the gift box printing needs a few minor touches. After that we will move on to finalizing the internal packing. We are still a month away or so on the hard parts [metal]. We should be getting the one driver back from Klippel any day now as it has been shipped back to us but has not arrived yet. After we get that woofer back it will be time to start putting the pair of TM65's in my Jetta along with six BM mkIV's.  I've already cleared the time with Mark from Audio Masters and hopefully he can begin the install in a few weeks from now.


----------



## casey

6?!? mad man!

going to be wild


----------



## crea_78

Wow.. SIX?? Gotta see and hear this when it is done


----------



## capea4

Electrodynamic said:


> Metal parts are still being gathered and machined and the outside box printing has been finalized but the gift box printing needs a few minor touches. After that we will move on to finalizing the internal packing. We are still a month away or so on the hard parts [metal]. We should be getting the one driver back from Klippel any day now as it has been shipped back to us but has not arrived yet. After we get that woofer back it will be time to start putting the pair of TM65's in my Jetta along with six BM mkIV's.  I've already cleared the time with Mark from Audio Masters and hopefully he can begin the install in a few weeks from now.


And I was excited to get the woofers, but now I just want to see this build log!


----------



## quickaudi07

Geezz that's going to sound nice. Post some pics of the build Nick


----------



## Electrodynamic

Oh yes. I will start a new thread for the build log. And yes, *6 (SIX)* SI BM mkIV 12" woofers powered by over 3,500 watts will be installed in the trunk of my Jetta along with two TM 65's (one per door with over 200 watts per driver) and the XBL^2 tweeters that Mark is selling/pre-ordering in the factory tweeter locations. I'll be doing all of the tuning with the help of a Dayton OmniMic2 and lots and lots of time spent inside the car in the warehouse. Well, not a ton of time as I hope I've learned a few things over the years about tuning to get things pretty close after about four hours of tuning.


----------



## quickaudi07

Oh my! Can you say PAWA!!!! Looking forward to your build. And I think your new mini subs are going in to my new ride... I will see tomorrow how it turns out.


----------



## sundownz

I am anxiously awaiting to see Nick produce these guys; I've helped test the samples (e.g. Holding the wires) a few times in Nick's secret laboratory


----------



## Bminus

I may just have to get a pair or 2 pairs of these for my Tundra!!! Right now I have a RF
r600d pushing the stock door speakers with 150watts X4 @ 2 ohms, and they sound pretty dang good for stock. I can only imagine how good my midbass would be with a dedicated high end midbass driver in all four doors. Plus I just got 2 of the bm mkiv's so this would be a match made in heaven!!!!


----------



## sirbOOm

I considered amplifying my OEM speakers and time aligning them in my truck just to see what I could do but I just skipped it. We do it sometimes at the shop and am often impressed at just how good they do with 50 watts and a sub added... something budget-minded people (aren't we all?) should think about more often. I remember reading somewhere on this forum that a guy competed with OEM speakers, just amplified and processed, and got like 2nd place.


----------



## Bminus

I agree, most people just consider any stock speaker trash, but even a low end stock speaker can sound great with the proper power and signal to it. Alot of people seem to focus too much on the speakers and not enough on the amps and tuning.


----------



## sirbOOm

The only thing you have to be careful of is that a lot of times OEM midrange/highs speakers (not door midbasses but 2.5 - 3" midrange speakers that are usually dash mounted) tend to be extremely efficient (I guess...) and thus need some attenuation otherwise, with more power, they can cut holes in your skull with loudness and harshness. That is the case in Toyotas, at least. Of course, the typical customer at my shop likes harsh highs and ridiculous amounts of bass, so... we leave it.


----------



## Bminus

Youre right. I also amped my dash speakers with a RF r400d, and yeah they can be a little harsh on certain songs. Its mostly in the vocals though. They actually seem to lack a little bit in the higher frequencies. Im sure replacing them with aftermarkets will help that out, but eventually will prolly end up needing a DSP to get exactly what I want, but anywho... Yep them there 6.5's should only help my situation lol.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Ok, since our server move deleted all of our previously posted images and DIYMA will not let me[anyone] edit an original post after a certain period of time here are some pictures of the TM65's. Below are pictures of raw parts, assembled drivers, etc:

Raw parts:










Actual cone and dust cap finish:










Six layer DVC coil and nomex spider:









And a cutaway in CAD of the TM65 motor:









Images of the smaller motored prototype can be found on our web page under the TM65 tab.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Sweet looking design Nick.


----------



## thehatedguy

I bet I can edit that post for you...or any mod could.


----------



## SO20thCentury

No pictures of you browbeating the factory help like Mark in the KAXBLTWT thread? It's really great of you to offer a shallow through a forum like this because my current shallow falls so short I haven't trusted any others that would fit my stock location to not also suck. Having so much positive feedback here really gives confidence in buying these despite that most people roll their eyes when I say I'm pre-buying speakers that will be made by a guy on a forum.


----------



## tjswarbrick

You're not "pre-buying from some guy on a forum." You're placing an advance order for the hottest new product from Stereo Integrity!


----------



## capea4

tjswarbrick said:


> You're not "pre-buying from some guy on a forum." You're placing an advance order for the hottest new product from Stereo Integrity!


True,
But it is kinda what some of us are doing with Mark's tweeters...lol


----------



## tjswarbrick

capea4 said:


> True,
> But it is kinda what some of us are doing with Mark's tweeters...lol


I know - I'm in for both as well. Can't wait!


----------



## SO20thCentury

Team K Audio/ SI ftw!:thumbsup:


----------



## Electrodynamic

SO20thCentury said:


> No pictures of you browbeating the factory help like Mark in the KAXBLTWT thread? It's really great of you to offer a shallow through a forum like this because my current shallow falls so short I haven't trusted any others that would fit my stock location to not also suck. Having so much positive feedback here really gives confidence in buying these despite that most people roll their eyes when I say I'm pre-buying speakers that will be made by a guy on a forum.


Nope, no pictures of me hassling the manufacturer because that would require me hassling myself.  The parts are coming in raw and we are assembling the drivers by hand here in central North Carolina. I guess I could slap myself and the one or two other guys that will be building these drivers by hand in the face but that wouldn't feel too good.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Spoiler alert: Here is what the TM65's are coming boxed in. :beerchug:

This is the box layout artwork. Imagine a box laid out flat and you can imagine what the finished product will look like.


----------



## Mic10is

sweet. If I purchased a pair of the 6.5s, could you throw in one of those 24s I saw when I stopped in w Jason before Finals?


----------



## Electrodynamic

Mic10is said:


> sweet. If I purchased a pair of the 6.5s, could you throw in one of those 24s I saw when I stopped in w Jason before Finals?


Yep, for $999 each I can throw one of the HS 24's in with your purchase of a pair of TM65's.


----------



## Mic10is

Electrodynamic said:


> Yep, for $999 each I can throw one of the HS 24's in with your purchase of a pair of TM65's.


doubt anyone could throw on of those things anywhere..lol

good deal. one 24 for $9.99. DEAL!


----------



## Electrodynamic

Mic10is said:


> doubt anyone could throw on of those things anywhere..lol
> 
> good deal. one 24 for $9.99. DEAL!


I almost put one of the HS 24's in my Jetta. IB in a trunk car is a great platform. But the steel reinforcement needed to properly angle the 24" woofer in my trunk while allowing it to use the trunk as the enclosure without ripping the car to shreds out-weighed installing six BM mkIV's in the spare tire well area and keeping all of my trunk space without added steel bracing. 

Just move your decimal place over two spots to the right and have yourself a deal. $999.00 for one HS 24. 

PS: Technically that $999.00 price carries a $5 discount.


----------



## Ted J

Mic10is said:


> doubt anyone could throw on of those things anywhere..lol
> 
> good deal. one 24 for $9.99. DEAL!


I'd hate to see what shipping would cost if they sold it for $9.99! :laugh:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Electrodynamic said:


> Nope, no pictures of me hassling the manufacturer because that would require me hassling myself.  The parts are coming in raw and we are assembling the drivers by hand here in central North Carolina. I guess I could slap myself and the one or two other guys that will be building these drivers by hand in the face but that wouldn't feel too good.


I'd come over and evil eye you guys for free!


----------



## seafish

Read most all the lages, but can't find a reccomended RMS for thes e beautiful puppies. I am thinking of running them in the doors with some L3v2 and Boston tweets mounted in the a-pillars of my Ram, but would need to get another amp to power them. 

Anybody have an estimated RMS??


----------



## Golden Ear

There's only one man that should answer that question. But if I had to guess I'd say around 100 watts


----------



## seafish

Golden Ear said:


> There's only one man that should answer that question. But if I had to guess I'd say around 100 watts


Thanks...I have a barely used Boston GT275 that might be just around perfect then, as they were underated at 75 watts per channel. 

I am pretty excited about these as they have the same excursion as the Dyn mw172 which I was consdiering, but I was going to have to shoehorn those into the doors and the Dyns seem to like more power then I already have to give them. I am pretty sure that these will work perfectly in a 3.1 way with HAT L3v2 and Boston ISTS tweeters that will be mounted on either side of the a-pillars and then a JL stealth 10w3v3 under the back seat of my truck. Have a DRZ9255 to control them all and 3 Bostons to power them all.


----------



## LaserSVT

The box says 150 rms.


----------



## seafish

LaserSVT said:


> The box says 150 rms.


Hmmm might have to get another amp then....darn it...lol.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Power rating is not a power requirement. The TM65's will work very well off of as little as 1 watt. 150 watts RMS is the thresh hold of their power handling capability.


----------



## seafish

Electrodynamic said:


> Power rating is not a power requirement. The TM65's will work very well off of as little as 1 watt. 150 watts RMS is the thresh hold of their power handling capability.


Thanks for clarifying...then my "little" GT275 will handle them just perfectly,as its rated 75 x 2 at 4ohms, 120 x 2 at 2ohms, and can handle 1 ohm unbridged.


----------



## rton20s

That GT275 should work great. These are dual 4 Ohm drivers, so your amp can provide 120w x 2 @ 2 Ohms.


----------



## quickaudi07

When should we be expecting these little monster's? ??


----------



## 1fishman

Are these 9mm one way or peek to peek. It wasn't clear on the website.


----------



## jcole1983

quickaudi07 said:


> When should we be expecting these little monster's? ??


+1 Any updates?


----------



## JSM-FA5

Late December/early January IIRC


----------



## captainobvious

I'm going to have to get a pair of these now too. I'm planning a little surprise for the wife and these would be a perfect fit with the other equipment I have assembled.

Money coming your way Nick


----------



## Electrodynamic

I just sent the parts manufacturer an email asking for any updates. I'll post in this thread when they reply. 

I just spoke with Dan Wiggins today and I sent over the entire Klippel file to him and he responded with "Wow...impressive!" and then went on to praise its thermal performance and sensitivity. So yes, I am very pleased that I have his seal of approval. Heck, he should like the TM65 because it models just like his Koda 6.5 but with almost twice the Xmax.


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> Are these 9mm one way or peek to peek. It wasn't clear on the website.


Xmax is a one-way measurement. Always has been. However, many companies trying to make their specs look better fudge Xmax to reflect two-way linear travel. I do not rate anything in two-way numbers, nor do I list peak power handling, etc. The latter is just trying to make your product look better than it really is.


----------



## bbfoto

Electrodynamic said:


> Spoiler alert: Here is what the TM65's are coming boxed in. :beerchug:
> 
> This is the box layout artwork. Imagine a box laid out flat and you can imagine what the finished product will look like.


^What are the O.D. of this TM65 box? D x W x H?

Are you going to post the Klippel results as mentioned a few pages back?

On the T/S parameters that were previously posted, is Le measured at 1k or 10k?

It looks like the T/S parameters on your web site are with the Voice Coils wired in Series. Can you post the T/S for the VCs wired in Parallel please?


------------------------------------------

Need to start another thread for this, BUT:

I'd be yet another person x1000 that's interested in a similarly-designed "8-inch" XBL^2 Mid-Bass driver with a maximum 7.75"-8" O.D. mounting flange with a maximum mounting depth of 3"-3.25" and 9mm+ xmax (one-way), with very Low Inductance, Low Distortion, and clean, smooth FR to just beyond it's physical beaming point. Oh, and decent efficiency.  Basically a slightly larger cone, shallow-mount Scan-Speak Illuminator 18WU. (I guess that would be closer to being a theoretical 19WU or 20WU). CHA-CHING!!!

Keep the mounting flange O.D. as minimal as possible by having the mounting holes pass through the outer glued edge of the surround (like the original Koda 6) but with a narrow, top clamping ring that sandwiches the surround to protect it from twisting/tearing the surround when installing the mounting screws, which was a major problem with the Koda 6. And that Koda 6 flange was WAY too wide...cut that flange width in half or a third of what it was.

Basically what we're all looking for is Maximum Sd/Vas, in Minimal mounting Diameter and Minimal Depth. YES, it will be many thousands of dollars in custom tooling (all-new basket, surround, & cone designs, etc.). BUT this is what EVERYONE here needs and NOBODY has delivered, EVER!!! The Illusion Audio C8 comes close, but FAILs due to the overall mounting diameter (again the huge flange), less xmax, and is uber expensive, as is the 18WU. I'm not saying that they are not worth the price, but this _is_ _DIY_MA. 

There would be MANY other markets for this besides the obvious high-end car audio/OEM replacement car audio markets....Home Theater in-wall speakers, Compact home Satellite/Subwoofer systems. Though, I would actually target this directly to the major high-end/luxury automakers...BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus, etc. If the performance matched any of your other recent designs, you would KILL IT!

Funding? KICKSTARTER!!! DOOOOOO IT!


----------



## captainobvious

Electrodynamic said:


> I just sent the parts manufacturer an email asking for any updates. I'll post in this thread when they reply.
> 
> I just spoke with Dan Wiggins today and I sent over the entire Klippel file to him and he responded with "Wow...impressive!" and then went on to praise its thermal performance and sensitivity. So yes, I am very pleased that I have his seal of approval. Heck, he should like the TM65 because it models just like his Koda 6.5 but with almost twice the Xmax.


Excellent Nick! Makes me even more excited to see their Klippel results. Seems like this is positioned to be one heck of a price to performance bargain.


----------



## 1fishman

Nick, Since an 8" was brought up again, Do you think you are going to make a 8" version in the next year or two?


----------



## REGULARCAB

:dead_horse: IMHO there is a glut of awesome eights out there. Especially if you have 3.5 inches of depth. A shallow 6.5 has a much larger market. We have to remember we are the .5% of car audio.


----------



## subwoofery

Who cares about 8" drivers? Just learn how to tune with a low distortion sub in the back and you're set  lol

Kelvin


----------



## bbfoto

^^This is VERY true, Kelvin.

But still, as evidenced in this thread alone, not to mention a plethora of other "Which 8-inch Midbass???" threads, quite a few are interested. Look at the top 20 competition vehicles, how many are 3-way front with 7.5" or larger flange midbass setups? Yeah, they're all heavily modified to make it work, but if we a had a GOOD 8" O.D. frame midbass that was 3" deep or less, severe modifications wouldn't be necessary and it would open up a ton of options for A LOT of us.

And Yes, I agree, there is a much larger market for good 6.5" drivers. BUT there are already WAY MORE very good available options for these as well (stiff competition) compared to SHALLOW 8" drivers. For instance, I like some of the 6.5"-7" GR Research drivers that you suggested a while back, Kelvin...$45 each for an excellent XBL^2 mid is pretty sweet.

^Also true, Greg. Back in the day I used the PG Titanium Elite Ti9m (Morel equivilent) because it was under 3" depth, 2.6" IIRC! Still, the other problem with the Dyns and the Morels is the oversized mounting flange.

And not _everyone_ wants a subwoofer. Yeah, not many, but some don't.

Also, why are A LOT of Luxury Automakers using shallow 8"-9" drivers? For instance, as far back as when the 3rd Gen 2002-2007 Infiniti G-35 series became popular, and of course the BMWs, and quite a few others if you care to research. There IS a market for hi-end, shallow-mount, after-market OEM 8" replacements, hence the Jenert, Gladen, and Earthquake SWS8 drivers previously mentioned. And again, these could have MANY other uses besides just car audio, and could also be sold to the OEM automakers as the best-performing option. Huge market.

If this 8" driver was created at a halfway reasonable/competitive price, I think you'd see a sh!t ton of people move that direction. The limiting factor has always been mounting depth (sometimes combined with giant magnet size), plus always being an "oversized" mounting flange and not a true 8" frame, and sub-par xmax. No, it's not going to work for everyone, but there is demand.

I'll leave it at that, as this thread is about an absolutely KILLER 6.5" that should smoke the competition! I'm really looking forward to seeing what this baby can do. Those YT videos alone are quite impressive!


----------



## captainobvious

I don't see auto makers wanting to spend that kind of money on speakers.

Like Regularcab said, we're the 0.5%ers of car audio. There may seem like a lot of us here, but a couple hundred orders, even a thousand, may not make it a profitable venture. Nick is doing it the smart way by introducing the 6.5" which has a VASTLY more broad application. First he has to see if this is a worthwhile venture before even considering producing the 8" drivers which appeal to a much smaller market.

I'd love to see them too, but I also am excited to get my hands on a pair of these as well


----------



## captainobvious

bbfoto said:


> If this 8" driver was created at a halfway reasonable/competitive price, I think you'd see a sh!t ton of people move that direction. The limiting factor has always been mounting depth (sometimes combined with giant magnet size), and always being an "oversized" mounting flange and not a true 8" frame. No, it's not going to work for everyone, but there is demand.
> 
> I'll leave it at that, as this thread is about an absolutely KILLER 6.5" that should smoke the competition! I'm really looking forward to seeing what this baby can do. Those YT videos alone are quite impressive!


I think the limiting factor is moreso ease of installation. Most people want a drop in replacement with more performance. Going from a 6.5" driver (most common in cars these days) to an 8" driver requires modification in almost every application. Fitting an 8" driver where a 6.5" was isn't really something that can be easily tackled by the likes of a Crutchfield for example, with a simple adapter.
I think the fact that the vast majority of cars have 6.5" speakers combined with the above is why you don't see as many options in the aftermarket. It's just not as profitable because the market isn't there.


----------



## bbfoto

Steve, you make some very solid and valid points. I'm talking out of my @ss at this point just to push my own agenda. 

It could be completely unfeasible, but was suggesting that perhaps Nick could take the same approach as Mark K, or as he himself probably does with his home theater subs, and target this shallow 8" driver to other/larger OEM markets first...we would just benefit by picking up the scraps.  Again, just wishing out loud for these, as I have been for years, haha. 

And hopefully Nick has done thorough market research/crunched the numbers to guarantee that this is definitely a worthwhile venture, well in advance of deciding to produce these. 

Thanks all. Good discussion. Some valuable and enlightening information always comes from healthy debate! 

Regarding the TM65, I would still like to know Klippel results, updated T/S Specs for both Series & Parallel wiring, and the printed box/container dimensions. 

Thanks


----------



## REGULARCAB

I agree with all of this, plus I can't do eights without a door panel mod shallow or not. So I'm pretty sour grapes about it 

Super stoked at the prospect of a kick ass shallow 6.5 epper:


----------



## Electrodynamic

bbfoto said:


> Regarding the TM65, I would still like to know Klippel results, updated T/S Specs for both Series & Parallel wiring, and the printed box/container dimensions.
> 
> Thanks


Klippel results were posted immediately after they were completed. Click here to go to the thread inside DIYMA General Discussion. 

T/S's are listed in series. I will measure them parallel next week using our WT2 which is no where near as accurate as Klippel. The performance will be the same (minus the increase in sensitivity from more power at half the impedance) as the parameters in series. I can get the gift box dimensions but note that the drivers will not just be sent in just their gift box packing - they will be double boxed in larger shipping boxes. And Le is measured at 1k as is normal. Again, I do not post anything non-standard.


----------



## strakele

bbfoto said:


> But still, as evidenced in this thread alone, not to mention a plethora of other "Which 8-inch Midbass???" threads, quite a few are interested. Look at the top 20 competition vehicles, how many are 3-way front with 7.5" or larger flange midbass setups? Yeah, they're all heavily modified to make it work, but if we a had a GOOD 8" O.D. frame midbass that was 3" deep or less, severe modifications wouldn't be necessary and it would open up a ton of options for A LOT of us.
> 
> And Yes, I agree, there is a much larger market for good 6.5" drivers. BUT there are already WAY MORE very good available options for these as well (stiff competition) compared to SHALLOW 8" drivers. For instance, I like some of the 6.5"-7" GR Research drivers that you suggested a while back, Kelvin...$45 each for an excellent XBL^2 mid is pretty sweet.
> 
> ^Also true, Greg. Back in the day I used the PG Titanium Elite Ti9m (Morel equivilent) because it was under 3" depth, 2.6" IIRC! Still, the other problem with the Dyns and the Morels is the oversized mounting flange.
> 
> And not _everyone_ wants a subwoofer. Yeah, not many, but some don't.
> 
> Also, why are A LOT of Luxury Automakers using shallow 8"-9" drivers? For instance, as far back as when the 3rd Gen 2002-2007 Infiniti G-35 series became popular, and of course the BMWs, and quite a few others if you care to research. There IS a market for hi-end, shallow-mount, after-market OEM 8" replacements, hence the Jenert, Gladen, and Earthquake SWS8 drivers previously mentioned. And again, these could have MANY other uses besides just car audio, and could also be sold to the OEM automakers as the best-performing option. Huge market.
> 
> If this 8" driver was created at a halfway reasonable/competitive price, I think you'd see a sh!t ton of people move that direction. The limiting factor has always been mounting depth (sometimes combined with giant magnet size), plus always being an "oversized" mounting flange and not a true 8" frame, and sub-par xmax. No, it's not going to work for everyone, but there is demand.
> 
> I'll leave it at that, as this thread is about an absolutely KILLER 6.5" that should smoke the competition! I'm really looking forward to seeing what this baby can do. Those YT videos alone are quite impressive!


This. So much this. All of this. Like, +1, etc.



captainobvious said:


> I think the limiting factor is moreso ease of installation. Most people want a drop in replacement with more performance. Going from a 6.5" driver (most common in cars these days) to an 8" driver requires modification in almost every application. Fitting an 8" driver where a 6.5" was isn't really something that can be easily tackled by the likes of a Crutchfield for example, with a simple adapter.
> I think the fact that the vast majority of cars have 6.5" speakers combined with the above is why you don't see as many options in the aftermarket. It's just not as profitable because the market isn't there.


But with a shallow 8, it's sooo much easier. Yes it won't be drop in (or it even could, if the basket tapered quick enough to mount on a 1/2" baffle and fit through a standard 6.5" speaker cutout). The vast majority of cars with 6.5" speakers standard can fit at least 1/2" of baffle out to 8 inches diameter. There may be some speaker hole trimming required, but in most cases, depth is the limiting factor. People will be a lot more ok with trimming off 1/4" extra from their speaker cutout to fit a larger midbass as long as it means not rebuilding the door panel because the speaker is too deep to fit without hitting the window.

I feel like my car is pretty "standard" as far as stock locations go. Doors came with 6.75" speakers. I can only fit 1/2" of baffle on top of the mounting surface, and there's around 2.5" of mounting depth available. So the TM65 would be a high performance drop in replacement. But with only a slight bit of trimming the cutout, a "TM8" that was <3" deep and a true 8" frame would work without having to modify the door panel. And that would be awesome. And I think a lot of people would go for that.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Electrodynamic said:


> I just sent the parts manufacturer an email asking for any updates. I'll post in this thread when they reply.
> 
> I just spoke with Dan Wiggins today and I sent over the entire Klippel file to him and he responded with "Wow...impressive!" and then went on to praise its thermal performance and sensitivity. So yes, I am very pleased that I have his seal of approval. Heck, he should like the TM65 because it models just like his Koda 6.5 but with almost twice the Xmax.


Hey that is cool! I was hanging out with Jim from CSS a couple months ago and we started talking about Dan. Brings back great memories, you've taken the DIY torch now that Adire is no longer around. Thanks for that!


----------



## tjswarbrick

Let's say you're building a 4-way full-active system with these as midbasses. Roughly 50W to each 8Ohm tweet, and 100W to 4Ohm mids. 300W to each 2Ohm BM MKIV sub.

You have a pair of solid, 1-Ohm stable, 100WPC (into 4Ohm) class A/B stereo amps.
Do you drive these 150 Watt RMS recommended 6.5's with:
a) 175W each with VC's parallelled to 2 OHM (save some space and sell an amp)?
b) 200W each by feeding each VC its own 100W channel?
c) 300W each, bridging 1 amp into each speaker 2 Ohm load?


----------



## cajunner

tjswarbrick said:


> Let's say you're building a 4-way full-active system with these as midbasses. Roughly 50W to each 8Ohm tweet, and 100W to 4Ohm mids. 300W to each 2Ohm BM MKIV sub.
> 
> You have a pair of solid, 1-Ohm stable, 100WPC (into 4Ohm) class A/B stereo amps.
> Do you drive these 150 Watt RMS recommended 6.5's with:
> a) 175W each with VC's parallelled to 2 OHM (save some space and sell an amp)?
> b) 200W each by feeding each VC its own 100W channel?
> c) 300W each, bridging 1 amp into each speaker 2 Ohm load?


I like c, but you may do better with a.

depends on a lot of factors, like average listening levels, duration, musical content, install, etc.

a lot of people believe in watt ratings but those usually have nothing in common with how the speaker is going to be used, especially when the differences between crossovers show how a 80 hz high pass can let a speaker live on indefinitely and a 70 hz high pass kills it in a week.


----------



## tjswarbrick

cajunner said:


> I like c, but you may do better with a.
> 
> depends on a lot of factors, like average listening levels, duration, musical content, install, etc.


I was afraid of that...

I have seen reports were extra power doesn't really do a lot for the BM MKIV. I wonder if that'll be the case for the TM65, as well.

Looks like I'll hang on to both and let the install be my guide.

Too excited. Too bad it'll be a while before I get to realize this system.


----------



## ErinH

People. Stop bumping this thread. You're making me want to buy these and I don't need more stuff!


----------



## tjswarbrick

Oh, but you do. You do!
Why else would you be all over his Klippel thread??? 



ErinH said:


> People. Stop bumping this thread. You're making me want to buy these and I don't need more stuff!


----------



## ErinH

I quit replying to that a month ago! So, there!


----------



## ErinH

Actually, I'm liking these for a LCR baffle wall build. Helps keep CTC spacing down, which helps the polar response. The price certainly helps.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

ErinH said:


> Actually, I'm liking these for a LCR baffle wall build. Helps keep CTC spacing down, which helps the polar response. The price certainly helps.


For your HT?!


----------



## quickaudi07

Nick hurry up i need to start my new build lol


----------



## ErinH

Architect7 said:


> For your HT?!



Yea.


----------



## captainobvious

ErinH said:


> People. Stop bumping this thread. You're making me want to buy these and I don't need more stuff!



Bump






ahhh crap 




Nick doesnt make junk (ie they will rock)so you may as well order now so you don't pay extra in a couple months


----------



## 2010hummerguy

ErinH said:


> Yea.


That would be pretty badass and ultra classy as a low profile LCR. What tweeters would you go with? 2-way? I am now envisioning something like the M&K 150 series LCR...2 of these per channel and 3 of a nice tweeter...


----------



## Jstaguy24

Would these be good for a 2 way active? Or best for a 3 way active with a mid and tweeter?


----------



## bbfoto

tjswarbrick said:


> Let's say you're building a 4-way full-active system with these as midbasses. Roughly 50W to each 8Ohm tweet, and 100W to 4Ohm mids. 300W to each 2Ohm BM MKIV sub.
> 
> You have a pair of solid, 1-Ohm stable, 100WPC (into 4Ohm) class A/B stereo amps.
> Do you drive these 150 Watt RMS recommended 6.5's with:
> a) 175W each with VC's parallelled to 2 OHM (save some space and sell an amp)?
> b) 200W each by feeding each VC its own 100W channel?
> c) 300W each, bridging 1 amp into each speaker 2 Ohm load?


Personally, I would go with "a". I don't really know if it matters all that much, but I don't like to bridge amps unless absolutely necessary...I like to keep the audio system's power consumption down, reduce amp heat, and keep the noise floor/distortion lower as well. But depending on the application, it might not matter much in real world use.



Electrodynamic said:


> Klippel results were posted immediately after they were completed. Click here to go to the thread inside DIYMA General Discussion.
> 
> T/S's are listed in series. I will measure them parallel next week using our WT2 which is no where near as accurate as Klippel. The performance will be the same (minus the increase in sensitivity from more power at half the impedance) as the parameters in series. I can get the gift box dimensions but note that the drivers will not just be sent in just their gift box packing - they will be double boxed in larger shipping boxes. And Le is measured at 1k as is normal. Again, I do not post anything non-standard.


Thanks, Nick. Just wanted to verify what value was used for testing. I assumed that the Le was tested at the 1k standard, but you never know, sometime people have their own "preferences". 

And for some reason I was thinking that you did the Klippel test on a much earlier prototype. As you stated, once the ~2mm VC offset is corrected, the difference in specs should be predictable.

Regarding testing in parallel vs. series, I'm just not all that familiar in determining exactly what parameters would change and in which direction if so. I would most likely use them with the VCs in parallel and wondered what specs would change for that.

Regarding the box dimensions, I was just curious if one of the boxed TM65's would fit in a standard Priority Mail Medium Flat Rate Box with room for extra padding. I get a pretty good discount with my business account and creating shipping labels online, but it doesn't look too different from other services.

Thanks again for the info and Link to the Klippel results.


----------



## bbfoto

Jstaguy24 said:


> Would these be good for a 2 way active? Or best for a 3 way active with a mid and tweeter?


You _could_ do a 2-way with a tweeter that you could cross fairly low, such as Mark K's XBL tweeter in the group buy thread or Andy Wehmeyer's Audiofrog GB15, 1.5" Tweeter.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/164686-kaxbltwt-groupbuy.html

http://www.audiofrogusa.com/gb15-1-12-38-mm-audiophile-grade-automotive-tweeter/

It looks like the TM65 should be crossed on the top end at no more than ~2kHz with a fairly steep slope. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think even Nick mentioned that he will be using KAXBLTWT tweeters in a 2-way setup with the TM65 in his own install.




ErinH said:


> Actually, I'm liking these for a LCR baffle wall build. Helps keep CTC spacing down, which helps the polar response. The price certainly helps.


LOL, I was considering this as well with the TM65's, and even more so if Nick were to develop a similar shallow-mount 8" O.D. XBL^2 driver.

I don't know if they're still quite as popular as they once were, but Home Stereo/Home Theatre "in-walls" are a nice way to save space and seamlessly blend into the interior. One of my buddies is a custom AV/Home Theatre installer, and a lot of his clients have spent some crazy money for good "in-walls" for the WAF and in general to maintain a "clean" look.

Maybe Nick should Poll his clients who use his Subs for HT to see how much interest there would be? IDK


----------



## tjswarbrick

bbfoto said:


> Personally, I would go with "a". I don't really know if it matters all that much, but I don't like to bridge amps unless absolutely necessary...I like to keep the audio system's power consumption down, reduce amp heat, and keep the noise floor/distortion lower as well. But depending on the application, it might not matter much in real world use.


Thanks. I've always felt the same way, but I've never done a comparison to see if it makes a difference.
I think I've figured out the config now, but again, will definitely let the installation be the determining factor. Nice to have a touch of flexibility.


----------



## Electrodynamic

bbfoto said:


> Personally, I would go with "a". I don't really know if it matters all that much, but I don't like to bridge amps unless absolutely necessary...I like to keep the audio system's power consumption down, reduce amp heat, and keep the noise floor/distortion lower as well. But depending on the application, it might not matter much in real world use.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, Nick. Just wanted to verify what value was used for testing. I assumed that the Le was tested at the 1k standard, but you never know, sometime people have their own "preferences".
> 
> And for some reason I was thinking that you did the Klippel test on a much earlier prototype. As you stated, once the ~2mm VC offset is corrected, the difference in specs should be predictable.
> 
> Regarding testing in parallel vs. series, I'm just not all that familiar in determining exactly what parameters would change and in which direction if so. I would most likely use them with the VCs in parallel and wondered what specs would change for that.
> 
> Regarding the box dimensions, I was just curious if one of the boxed TM65's would fit in a standard Priority Mail Medium Flat Rate Box with room for extra padding. I get a pretty good discount with my business account and creating shipping labels online, but it doesn't look too different from other services.
> 
> Thanks again for the info and Link to the Klippel results.


I'll get you those dimensions this week. I'm not too familiar with the exact dimensions of a Medium size Priority Mail box but I have seen the those before at the post office. You might be able to put two TM65 gift-boxes inside of one Medium size USPS box but doing so would be taking a chance on the packing [taking a gamble on the woofers arriving in one piece].


----------



## bbfoto

Electrodynamic said:


> I'll get you those dimensions this week. I'm not too familiar with the exact dimensions of a Medium size Priority Mail box but I have seen the those before at the post office. You might be able to put two TM65 gift-boxes inside of one Medium size USPS box but doing so would be taking a chance on the packing [taking a gamble on the woofers arriving in one piece].


Copy that, thanks. BTW, that TM65 looks like a tweeter compared to that 24" sub in the pics at Jason's GTG, LOL!


----------



## 2010hummerguy

So looks like I might actually have an application for these in the spring, is the preorder still open?


----------



## tjswarbrick

Architect7 said:


> So looks like I might actually have an application for these in the spring, is the preorder still open?


Stereointegrity.com
Looks like it still is!


----------



## captainobvious

Yep, just go to the site, fill out the form and paypal and you're good to go.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Architect7 said:


> So looks like I might actually have an application for these in the spring, is the preorder still open?


Yep, pre-ordering will be open until the parts to assemble the drivers are at our facility.


----------



## JSM-FA5

Electrodynamic said:


> Yep, pre-ordering will be open until the parts to assemble the drivers are at our facility.


Do you know when that will be? Trying to get some things taken care of before I drop the money on these beasts


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Electrodynamic said:


> Yep, pre-ordering will be open until the parts to assemble the drivers are at our facility.


Cool, thanks Nick!


----------



## captainobvious

JSM-FA5 said:


> Do you know when that will be? Trying to get some things taken care of before I drop the money on these beasts


I wouldn't wait too long considering Nicks most recent updates here. 
Would be a shame to wait a month, miss it and end up having to pay $100 more


----------



## JSM-FA5

captainobvious said:


> I wouldn't wait too long considering Nicks most recent updates here.
> Would be a shame to wait a month, miss it and end up having to pay $100 more


Yeah tell me about it! Haha. But if it comes down to it, that's what I'll have to do. These drivers are well worth it.


----------



## Electrodynamic

JSM-FA5 said:


> Yeah tell me about it! Haha. But if it comes down to it, that's what I'll have to do. These drivers are well worth it.


You are correct. Even at the "retail" price they are considerably under-priced. How many other 6.5" mid/woofers with 89 dB sensitivity with 9mm Xmax and 12mm Xmech are you able to find that are less than 2.3" deep (and work well IB or ported)? When you've been a part of more than one mobile audio install you are aware of the depth requirements for all driver applications. Imagine if mounting depth wasn't an issue...now imagine that you can get big mounting depth mid/woofer performance out of a shallow 2.3" deep mid/woofer.


----------



## REGULARCAB

Electrodynamic said:


> You are correct. Even at the "retail" price they are considerably under-priced. How many other 6.5" mid/woofers with 89 dB sensitivity with 9mm Xmax and 12mm Xmech are you able to find that are less than 2.3" deep (and work well IB or ported)? When you've been a part of more than one mobile audio install you are aware of the depth requirements for all driver applications. Imagine if mounting depth wasn't an issue...now imagine that you can get big mounting depth mid/woofer performance out of a shallow 2.3" deep mid/woofer.


Im so stoked to be ordering a pair of these!


----------



## mikechec9

quality_sound said:


> A shallow 8" true midbass would be amazing


...so very agreed


----------



## LaserSVT

Electrodynamic said:


> You are correct. Even at the "retail" price they are considerably under-priced. How many other 6.5" mid/woofers with 89 dB sensitivity with 9mm Xmax and 12mm Xmech are you able to find that are less than 2.3" deep (and work well IB or ported)? When you've been a part of more than one mobile audio install you are aware of the depth requirements for all driver applications. Imagine if mounting depth wasn't an issue...now imagine that you can get big mounting depth mid/woofer performance out of a shallow 2.3" deep mid/woofer.


Well there are just so many! Like the..... nope. But the ...... wait, no. Well I bet the...... nope, wrong.

So easy answer. Not a fargin' one. 


I really want to play with these.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Ok, picture time! 

Got spiders?









Neo magnet slugs:









Tiny little dust caps:









Just a few cone/surround bodies:









Small but stout voice coils:

















Yoke and top plates:


----------



## 2010hummerguy

IT'S HAPPENING!!!!!!


----------



## LaserSVT

*sits at front door*


----------



## Inferno333

What are the rest of the mounting dimensions?


----------



## JSM-FA5

Can't wait! These are going to be killer.


----------



## quickaudi07

Oh wow and I was about to ask when are these going to hit the streets  can't wait now...


----------



## captainobvious

Well I know what you'll be doing for the foreseeable future Nick 

Glad to see parts have arrived and TM65's may start hitting the streets in a few weeks!


----------



## SO20thCentury

HOOweeee! Christmas! O hell- still got amps to buy, wires to run, sound to deaden...:cwm8:


----------



## quickaudi07

SO20thCentury said:


> HOOweeee! Christmas! O hell- still got amps to buy, wires to run, sound to deaden...:cwm8:


Join the club


----------



## SO20thCentury

quickaudi07 said:


> Join the club


Misery loves company!:beerchug:


----------



## quickaudi07

Well I have to run new wires. To pillars. Sound deadener doors and trunk for sure. Also rear deck


----------



## quickaudi07

On top of it I need a new sub box to be made, make a nice looking mold for my tablet either 7" or I might try nexus 9.. we will see sky is the limit... all depends how much time and effort I wanna put in to everything.


----------



## LaserSVT

I have their home all set up. All nice and cozy.


----------



## Inferno333

Any word on the dimensions?


----------



## billw

Outside Diameter of the basket: 167mm (6.57")
Cutout Diameter: 143mm (5.63")
Mounting Depth: 58.16mm (2.29")


----------



## Inferno333

billw said:


> Outside Diameter of the basket: 167mm (6.57")
> Cutout Diameter: 143mm (5.63")
> Mounting Depth: 58.16mm (2.29")



Thank you!

I just found it in the thread also. Must've glanced over it the first time. 

Now just need people to buy my stuff so I can order a pair!


----------



## Electrodynamic

Sorry to not have mentioned it in the above post but those pics are from the metal and soft part manufacturer. The motors still need assembled, charged, and then attached to the baskets. The printing for the boxes should be done soon, and then the entire lot is being shipped over to us here in the states so we can put them together. I'll post an ETA for the parts to arrive as soon as I am aware.


----------



## buguy

I guess I better get mine ordered to go with the sub (or soon to be subs). May as well start working on a tweeter to match these. You could sell them as a kit!

Holy ****! Just put 2 in a cart and its $39 to ship to Florida? I feel bad for the California guys!


----------



## Electrodynamic

buguy said:


> I guess I better get mine ordered to go with the sub (or soon to be subs). May as well start working on a tweeter to match these. You could sell them as a kit!
> 
> Holy ****! Just put 2 in a cart and its $39 to ship to Florida? I feel bad for the California guys!


I guess I need to start a folder on my laptop for forum replies so I don't keep repeating myself.  The TM65's are triple boxed and they are not light weight at ~10 lbs each. It takes time to pack them up and the shipping boxes are not small. 

I guess I could have charged more for the woofers to begin with and lost money on shipping.


----------



## buguy

Oh I know. Took me an hour to open one of your subs!


----------



## 2010hummerguy

That and shipping is not cheap like it used to be. Even freight...10 years ago I used to ship cars across the country for $800... Now it's 3-4x that


----------



## ChrisB

Electrodynamic said:


> I guess I need to start a folder on my laptop for forum replies so I don't keep repeating myself.  The TM65's are triple boxed and they are not light weight at ~10 lbs each. It takes time to pack them up and the shipping boxes are not small.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I could have charged more for the woofers to begin with and lost money on shipping.



Sadly, most people don't understand economics and the fact that you are in business to make money. From tooling costs to manufacturing to customs to packaging to distributing. 

Hell, even where I work, customers ***** about us charging them for their own change orders. For example, they change to valves that cost 3 times as much but expect us to keep the original price the same. Aye, customers are never satisfied.


----------



## Electrodynamic

ChrisB said:


> Sadly, most people don't understand economics and the fact that you are in business to make money. From tooling costs to manufacturing to customs to packaging to distributing.
> 
> Hell, even where I work, customers ***** about us charging them for their own change orders. For example, they change to valves that cost 3 times as much but expect us to keep the original price the same. Aye, customers are never satisfied.


Can you shoot me an email to nick at stereo integrity dot com? I saw your signature and I drive a Jetta TDI. Thanks.


----------



## 1fishman

Electrodynamic said:


> I guess I need to start a folder on my laptop for forum replies so I don't keep repeating myself.  The TM65's are triple boxed and they are not light weight at ~10 lbs each. It takes time to pack them up and the shipping boxes are not small.
> 
> I guess I could have charged more for the woofers to begin with and lost money on shipping.


Your shipping fee is just out line with what most of us are use to. 

Example; Shipping for 2 Exodus Anarchy drivers (big heavy drivers) is $12.75 with Fedex. 

So yeah, 300% higher shipping come across as a bit sketchy. Just being honest bro. Still a great value even at full price, regardless of shipping.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

But, if the driver drops them or throws them over the fence, are the anarchy's going to survive?


----------



## Bigjppop

I think these are going to end up in the doors of my e39 BMW but I'm looking for some suggestions on tweeters; I've been through the last 10 pages of this thread and haven't seen much (other than a group buy that was mentioned a couple times but it looks like that one is full already).

Can anyone recommend some nice tweeters to match this woofer for a 2-way active setup?


----------



## captainobvious

Bigjppop said:


> I think these are going to end up in the doors of my e39 BMW but I'm looking for some suggestions on tweeters; I've been through the last 10 pages of this thread and haven't seen much (other than a group buy that was mentioned a couple times but it looks like that one is full already).
> 
> Can anyone recommend some nice tweeters to match this woofer for a 2-way active setup?


I'd recommend taking a look at these:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/vifa-soft-dome-tweeters/vifa-ne25vts-04-1-silk-dome-tweeter/

The Vifa NE25VTS-04 is a small format neo 1" silk dome tweeter that's reasonably priced and offers good performance. It has an FS of 733hz and very good sensitivity at 88db 1w/1m so should be a nice match for the SI TM65.




The Scanspeak Illuminator D3004/6020 would also be a nice fit, but is considerably more expensive.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...luminator-d3004/6020-00-tweeter-textile-dome/



.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Bigjppop said:


> I think these are going to end up in the doors of my e39 BMW but I'm looking for some suggestions on tweeters; I've been through the last 10 pages of this thread and haven't seen much (other than a group buy that was mentioned a couple times but it looks like that one is full already).
> 
> Can anyone recommend some nice tweeters to match this woofer for a 2-way active setup?


I would personally match them with these:

Dayton AMT3-4

Mostly because I would really like to try an AMT in a car and I am not a huge fan of most domes.


----------



## rton20s

Bigjppop said:


> Can anyone recommend some nice tweeters to match this woofer for a 2-way active setup?


Depending on budget and fitment/installation, I would probably be looking at one of these...

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/auto-tweeters/seas-prestige-27tffnc/g-h1396-1-textile-dome-tweeter/

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/sb-acoustics-sb29rdcn-c000-4-neo-magnet-ring-dome-tweeter/

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/scanspeak-soft-dome-tweeters/scanspeak-illuminator-d3004/6020-00-tweeter-textile-dome/

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/scanspeak-illuminator-r3004/6020-00-1-tweeter-small-ring-radiator/


----------



## zero43

Are the baskets in house or did I miss something?


----------



## Bigjppop

Really appreciate the tweeter recommendations; should be a fun build!


----------



## LaserSVT

If only I could fit those. I am going to run these instead: Dayton Audio AMT1-4 Air Motion Transformer Tweeter










I will be reviewing them with PHD AF1.c, Focal TN-K, Boston Pros (just for fun) and a set of Infinity Kappa EMITs just to see how they react with different styles of tweeters. The EMIT I am not expecting much as they need to be crossed a bit high for the SI mid. 

I would have liked to get in on the XBL tweeters but funds are tight so I will make do with what I have.


----------



## subwoofery

LaserSVT said:


> If only I could fit those. I am going to run these instead: Dayton Audio AMT1-4 Air Motion Transformer Tweeter


FS seems a bit high. Not sure where it's supposed to be crossed - spec sheet says 2kHz @ 12dB/oct slope. 
Response is a bit ragged too. 

This one looks like it has a better response. 

Kelvin


----------



## LaserSVT

subwoofery said:


> FS seems a bit high. Not sure where it's supposed to be crossed - spec sheet says 2kHz @ 12dB/oct slope.
> Response is a bit ragged too.
> 
> This one looks like it has a better response.
> 
> Kelvin


Nope, been researching these things for a while and I picked the one I want. I tned to like a hot tweeter and the AMT1-4 fits the bill just right. They don't roll off until after 2k and will be crossed at 2.4~ (depending on in car response). They will be a bit bright from 12-20k but again, I like that.
The ones you picked are nice bu would require a dedicated mid. Those tweeters lose over 10db below 4k and the SI mids just cant play that high and maintain composure.
Also I listen to stuff way too loud and the smaller tweeter would get burned.
Also due to my mounting spot I will be cutting the case to almost a rectangle and the smaller tweeter oddly enough has less edge for me to cut.

I do appreciate the input though and if there is a better option AMT tweeter I am all ears. But complete stealth is my montra so they need to fit in factory 95-99 (EBS) GM trucks.


----------



## subwoofery

LaserSVT said:


> Nope, been researching these things for a while and I picked the one I want. I tned to like a hot tweeter and the AMT1-4 fits the bill just right. They don't roll off until after 2k and will be crossed at 2.4~ (depending on in car response). They will be a bit bright from 12-20k but again, I like that.
> The ones you picked are nice bu would require a dedicated mid. Those tweeters lose over 10db below 4k and the SI mids just cant play that high and maintain composure.
> Also I listen to stuff way too loud and the smaller tweeter would get burned.
> Also due to my mounting spot I will be cutting the case to almost a rectangle and the smaller tweeter oddly enough has less edge for me to cut.
> 
> I do appreciate the input though and if there is a better option AMT tweeter I am all ears. But complete stealth is my montra so they need to fit in factory 95-99 (EBS) GM trucks.


Depends on how much you're willing to pay  

Those 2 have killer dispersion in the horizontal and vertical axis: 
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-motion-transformers-amt/mundorf-amt21cm2.1-c-air-motion-tweeter-amt-4-ohm/ 
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-motion-transformers-amt/mundorf-amt23cm1.1-c-air-motion-tweeter-amt/ 

Spreading the chaos for a more even power response  

But the price eek... 

Kelvin


----------



## LaserSVT

subwoofery said:


> Depends on how much you're willing to pay
> 
> Those 2 have killer dispersion in the horizontal and vertical axis:
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-motion-transformers-amt/mundorf-amt21cm2.1-c-air-motion-tweeter-amt-4-ohm/
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-motion-transformers-amt/mundorf-amt23cm1.1-c-air-motion-tweeter-amt/
> 
> Spreading the chaos for a more even power response
> 
> But the price eek...
> 
> Kelvin


I am beginning to dislike you. 

Those are very nice but yikes! If I were to spend that much I would just drop the extra $200 and get a set of Focal Be tweeters. $300 for the set of Daytons I can play with. If I blow them up or don't like them its not a huge loss. $700+ and I will probably be too afraid to enjoy them. LOL


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Holy balls those Mundorfs are RAAL money...Kelvin, have you used them before? I am very intrigued to try them compared to my 140-15D RAALs.


----------



## subwoofery

Architect7 said:


> Holy balls those Mundorfs are RAAL money...Kelvin, have you used them before? I am very intrigued to try them compared to my 140-15D RAALs.


Nope, have heard properly installed ribbon tweeters but none of the AMT ones. 

If I were to buy 1 to play with, it would be those that I linked I guess - not too big (install wise) and freq response that is flat enough (nothing jumping out of it, resonance wise it's seems good) 
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/AMT21CM2.1.pdf 
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/AMT23CM1.1.pdf

Kelvin


----------



## mwmkravchenko

The Mundorfs are actually a little more ragged than the AMT's you chose from Parts Express.

PM me and you can find out how I know.

mark at kravchenko dash audio dot com


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> Your shipping fee is just out line with what most of us are use to.
> 
> Example; Shipping for 2 Exodus Anarchy drivers (big heavy drivers) is $12.75 with Fedex.
> 
> So yeah, 300% higher shipping come across as a bit sketchy. Just being honest bro. Still a great value even at full price, regardless of shipping.


I suggest buying something else if you are focused on shipping and handling price for your product choice. All of our products are triple, if not quadrupel boxed to ensure they arrive in tact. We are not willing to ship product in "just enough" packing so save you $5 in shipping and risk the product arrive damaged due to lack of packing.


----------



## Beckerson1

1fishman said:


> Your shipping fee is just out line with what most of us are use to.
> 
> Example; Shipping for 2 Exodus Anarchy drivers (big heavy drivers) is $12.75 with Fedex.
> 
> So yeah, 300% higher shipping come across as a bit sketchy. Just being honest bro. Still a great value even at full price, regardless of shipping.


Erich has a Deal (or say a business account) with Fedex. Hence cheaper shipping


----------



## 1fishman

Beckerson1 said:


> Erich has a Deal (or say a business account) with Fedex. Hence cheaper shipping


Yep, i think most business do. My son asked for a discount for us, he just had to tell them how much we ship and he got us a healthy discount, about 40%. I shipped my Anarchy's last week to Miami for $11.50 insured.
Shipping's not a big deal to me, but just seem like constructive criticism, that's all


----------



## Electrodynamic

Electrodynamic said:


> I suggest buying something else if you are focused on shipping and handling price for your product choice. *All of our products are triple, if not quadrupel boxed to ensure they arrive in tact. We are not willing to ship product in "just enough" packing so save you $5 in shipping and risk the product arrive damaged due to lack of packing.*


See above quote.

Or I could just raise pricing and stop pre-order right now. The choice is up to you guys. If shipping cost is your "deal breaker" I will adjust the price of the drivers to reflect a higher item price and lower shipping cost if it makes you fell better about the purchase of your product. 

I have offered these drivers at a drastically reduced price over every other driver out there that even comes close to its perforamance (what other driver bests it's performance?) for DIYMA. But having seen the posts about shipping I will say this: if one more post is made about the shipping cost of the drivers I will raise the price of the drivers and end pre-ordering. 

Happy Thanksgiving.


----------



## Bigjppop

Alright, alright, I just placed the order. Don't raise the cost until I get mine!

Looking forward to some new toys.


----------



## bassfromspace

Electrodynamic said:


> See above quote.
> 
> Or I could just raise pricing and stop pre-order right now. The choice is up to you guys. If shipping cost is your "deal breaker" I will adjust the price of the drivers to reflect a higher item price and lower shipping cost if it makes you fell better about the purchase of your product.
> 
> I have offered these drivers at a drastically reduced price over every other driver out there that even comes close to its perforamance (what other driver bests it's performance?) for DIYMA. But having seen the posts about shipping I will say this: if one more post is made about the shipping cost of the drivers I will raise the price of the drivers and end pre-ordering.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving.


The shipping cost is outrageous.


----------



## Inferno333

Electrodynamic said:


> But having seen the posts about shipping I will say this: if one more post is made about the shipping cost of the drivers I will raise the price of the drivers and end pre-ordering.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving.



Please don't end it yet. I'm working incredibly hard to get some stuff sold to buy a set of these!


----------



## bbfoto

Electrodynamic said:


> I suggest buying something else if you are focused on shipping and handling price for your product choice. All of our products are triple, if not quadrupel boxed to ensure they arrive in tact. We are not willing to ship product in "just enough" packing so save you $5 in shipping and risk the product arrive damaged due to lack of packing.





Electrodynamic said:


> See above quote.
> 
> Or I could just raise pricing and stop pre-order right now. The choice is up to you guys. If shipping cost is your "deal breaker" I will adjust the price of the drivers to reflect a higher item price and lower shipping cost if it makes you fell better about the purchase of your product.
> 
> I have offered these drivers at a drastically reduced price over every other driver out there that even comes close to its perforamance (what other driver bests it's performance?) for DIYMA. But having seen the posts about shipping I will say this: if one more post is made about the shipping cost of the drivers I will raise the price of the drivers and end pre-ordering.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving.


Worst posts evar. Happy Thanksgiving?


----------



## quickaudi07

He's right. If people are crying about very good packing making sure everything gets to us secured and safe than by all means. Lower the price on shipping and bump up the price on drivers. Plain and simple... if you can't aford great packing and shipping quality than why bother ordering a great product.


----------



## quality_sound

If they're gonna ***** about the price they can simply miss out. I'll pay for good packaging and shipping all day long.
Nick, you're doing it right. Screw the naysayers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 1fishman

My apologize, I didn't mean to offend you. You just have a number of post that, as you said, keep bringing up that issue. And usually when a customer brings something to my attention, it means that many other customers have the same impression but don't speak up. I understand your packing is indeed over the top great, and your product is also. I just thought boxing is more of the product's cost, my bad. 





Electrodynamic said:


> I guess I need to start a folder on my laptop for forum replies so I don't keep repeating myself.  The TM65's are triple boxed and they are not light weight at ~10 lbs each. It takes time to pack them up and the shipping boxes are not small.
> 
> *I guess I could have charged more for the woofers to begin with and lost money on shipping*.


I was just trying to be helpful form one business owner to another. 
Again, im sorry.


----------



## Q-Authority

I've been following this thread/product development from the start, and while I might not be purchasing the speakers I think they're a great development. Can't wait to see how they work for everyone.

As for the shipping whiners, I'd say most of it is simply people who don't bother to read the thread through, and realize it has already been discussed, This is sadly typical of forums like this. A lot of ADS going 'round. For what is being developed, the speakers are a great deal, hands down, and crying about a bit costlier than normal shipping is just sad. To suggest that speaker prices be increased, and shipping be decreased, is absolutely pointless. People who really have an issue with this most likely would have no real appreciation for the speakers, wouldn't be buying them in the first place, and should just move on, leaving well enough alone.

So how about people just getting back on track, and continue discussing a great looking speaker that they are simply very fortunate for someone here to be producing at a pretty decent price.


----------



## strakele

Still don't have a need for these, but I still want a pair lol. Very tempting. Models well compared to my existing MW172s. Seems like with a 63Hz/24dB high pass you can't bottom them out without using obscene amounts of power (i.e. 500W). I like that 

Nick, have you been able to test these in a car door yet?




Electrodynamic said:


> I guess I could have charged more for the woofers to begin with and lost money on shipping.


I would honestly bet that most people would psychologically be much happier paying $240 per pair with free shipping than they would paying $200 per pair plus $40 shipping. Just like how it's a lot easier to sell something for $19.99 than it is to sell it for $20.01. Seems silly, but it's probably true.


----------



## Bruneti

Placed my order before anybody f's this pre-sale up for those that are truly interested. If you have a problem with the total cost, then vote with your wallet and move along. Thanks Nick for what you create. I'm also in on Mark's XBL tweets, and have a BM MKIV from the pre-sale. Speaker selection done.


----------



## captainobvious

LOL you guys crack me up. Have a look again at the price of the drivers. Now rethink the criticisms of the shipping cost. Nick could have built it into the cost of the driver as Grayson said and made them $125 a pop on pre-order and $175 a pop after. He ships things well packaged so they arrive safe to you and so he isnt losing money on shipping damages and returns. It's a small price to pay. Just pretend the drivers cost $250 a pair with shipping and you'll feel much better...


BTW I also question if any of you actually have tried shipping heavy drivers lately...its pricey. Not sure what you want from the man.


----------



## LaserSVT

I had no complaints on my $39 shipping for each BM MKIV. They showed up perfect. Cant tell you how many speakers I have ordered over the years that showed up damaged due to being shipped only in their "shelf" boxes.


----------



## Beckerson1

Gobble gobble... Ordered up


----------



## Electrodynamic

Having discussed the recent "situation" in this thread with a few people has cooled me down a little bit. I'm not going to spoil the pre-order for everyone because of what a few people are complaining about. Flat-out, if you don't want to purchase the drivers simply do not purchase them. If you want to purchase them, purchase them. If you are _that_ concerned about shipping price over fidelity and performance there are a plethora of other drivers out there that will fit your bill. The TM65 is obviously not one of those. Myself and one other hand-picked very vested speaker builder will be hand-assembling these drivers and if shipping cost is the one thing that drives you away then so be it. Each pair (or single) TM65 built will carry a signed square piece of paper indicating who built it. We are vested in these drivers and we are very proud of them. If you want a "cheap" woofer please look elsewhere.

PS: Thanks to those of you who know about the business and are clarifying the situation. I could easily charge a *lot* more for these drivers to the DIY community but I am offering them for a radically discounted price because I am a DIY enthusiast myself. Having seen all of the bile in this thread makes me want to charge more for all of my products from here on out while discounting shipping. Instead of $300 plus shipping how about $400 plus free shipping? Sounds good to me.


----------



## SO20thCentury

assfromspace said:


> The shipping cost is outrageous.


:Mr-T: Shutup foo!

:laugh: Mr. T!


----------



## WhereAmEye?

captainobvious said:


> BTW I also question if any of you actually have tried shipping heavy drivers lately...its pricey. Not sure what you want from the man.


One Arc Black 12 (25 pounds) from California to North Carolina with insurance was 39.xx thru FedEx. That's not including the box, packaging stuff, etc.

If you want a good set of speakers, pay FedEx their share. They gotta eat too


----------



## Electrodynamic

strakele said:


> Still don't have a need for these, but I still want a pair lol. Very tempting. Models well compared to my existing MW172s. Seems like with a 63Hz/24dB high pass you can't bottom them out without using obscene amounts of power (i.e. 500W). I like that
> 
> Nick, have you been able to test these in a car door yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would honestly bet that most people would psychologically be much happier paying $240 per pair with free shipping than they would paying $200 per pair plus $40 shipping. Just like how it's a lot easier to sell something for $19.99 than it is to sell it for $20.01. Seems silly, but it's probably true.



Very true about your last part. In answer to your first question I will be dropping my car off to Mark Worrell this next week for him to install a pair of ported TM65's in the doors of my 2003 VW Jetta TDI. I'll know exactly how they perform after he's finished with the install and I begin tuning the system.


----------



## strakele

Cool. Any way you could do a temp install with them IB in the doors to see how they'd perform in the most common way that people will install them?

I see from modeling that they want to be ported and that you'll probably get the most out of them by doing so, but I and probably most other people would be interested in how they do with no enclosure as well.


----------



## Electrodynamic

strakele said:


> Cool. Any way you could do a temp install with them IB in the doors to see how they'd perform in the most common way that people will install them?
> 
> I see from modeling that they want to be ported and that you'll probably get the most out of them by doing so, but I and probably most other people would be interested in how they do with no enclosure as well.


The really neat thing about installs today is that EQ is readily available and even if a driver falls short in output on its own a slight boost via EQ is not a problem. The TM65 has the exact same LF roll-off as the Adire Koda 6.5 but with almost twice the linear excursion. 

I'll report back with my session but mine will be ported, not IB.


----------



## quality_sound

WhereAmEye? said:


> One Arc Black 12 (25 pounds) from California to North Carolina with insurance was 39.xx thru FedEx. That's not including the box, packaging stuff, etc.
> 
> If you want a good set of speakers, pay FedEx their share. They gotta eat too


And for that $39 all you get is a box over the product box with no extra padding unless the outer box happens to be a little too big. Have you seen Nick's boxing? I have bought more Arc gear than I care to mention and Nick's boxing beats it by a country mile.


----------



## quality_sound

Electrodynamic said:


> The really neat thing about installs today is that EQ is readily available and even if a driver falls short in output on its own a slight boost via EQ is not a problem. The TM65 has the exact same LF roll-off as the Adire Koda 6.5 but with almost twice the linear excursion.
> 
> I'll report back with my session but mine will be ported, not IB.


Nick,
I may have missed it but what is the final sensitivity? I have more space in my BRZ's doors than my MkVI Golf did so I want to see if I can find something other than my 18sounds midbasses to match up with my horns.


----------



## WhereAmEye?

quality_sound said:


> And for that $39 all you get is a box over the product box with no extra padding unless the outer box happens to be a little too big. Have you seen Nick's boxing? I have bought more Arc gear than I care to mention and Nick's boxing beats it by a country mile.


Nahh the Arc came from a guy from the classifieds, 39 was just straight up charge from FedEx, and yes I have seen nicks boxing from a Bm mkIV. Very good, over the top packaging indeed.


----------



## captainobvious

quality_sound said:


> Nick,
> I may have missed it but what is the final sensitivity? I have more space in my BRZ's doors than my MkVI Golf did so I want to see if I can find something other than my 18sounds midbasses to match up with my horns.



Dude, didn't know you picked up a BRZ! It's a great platform for an audio system.  Congrats


----------



## quality_sound

captainobvious said:


> Dude, didn't know you picked up a BRZ! It's a great platform for an audio system.  Congrats



Yeah, I needed more room in the garage for my motorcycle. Though if I'd known my shoulder surgery was going to help my lower back issues I would have kept my STI. 
Only real issue with the car is the trunk. I don't want to use it all for the stereo. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SO20thCentury

Hey Nick, please make sure you get pictures of Mark's enclosures before they get integrated in the doors - this'll be great!


----------



## foreman

I pulled the trigger!!!!!!! And after having a terrible experience with a seller on CA.com with packing speakers(or lack thereof) i gladly pay the extra to make sure these arrive in new, useable condition just as they left Nick


----------



## Electrodynamic

quality_sound said:


> Nick,
> I may have missed it but what is the final sensitivity? I have more space in my BRZ's doors than my MkVI Golf did so I want to see if I can find something other than my 18sounds midbasses to match up with my horns.


89 dB 1W/1M.


----------



## Electrodynamic

foreman said:


> I pulled the trigger!!!!!!! And after having a terrible experience with a seller on CA.com with packing speakers(or lack thereof) i gladly pay the extra to make sure these arrive in new, useable condition just as they left Nick


I ship a single BM mkIV in a 14x14x14" cube triple boxed. I'm sure you can ask customers on here about my packing of my products. The drivers will not show up at your door damaged unless a forklift fork drives straight through the package.


----------



## ErinH

I got my 4 HT18's in today and can attest to the packing. Double boxed and styrofoam mold for the subs.


----------



## quickaudi07

Ok i think we should put the packing and shipping price to the side and put our effort to the great 6.5 mid ever! 
If shipping is too much than you need a part time job. I prefer to pay for shipping little more and knowing it gets to me safe. It's less hassle of back and forth on both ends, that's just my input on it. 

BTW nice 18"


----------



## quality_sound

Electrodynamic said:


> 89 dB 1W/1M.



Dammit. I don't know that that will work without strangling the horns. Then again, I've never run an XBL midbass either. 

Do you think they'd be a good match? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mic10is

quality_sound said:


> Dammit. I don't know that that will work without strangling the horns. Then again, I've never run an XBL midbass either.
> 
> Do you think they'd be a good match?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


dont get caught up in the whole needing an efficient mid to keep up with horns. Hundreds and hundreds of people ran regular car midranges for decades with very good success.
I currently use a JL ZR65 with mine and have done "Ok" with how my car sounds

the best sounding I have heard to date was horns w a Morel 5 and IDQ8s....not the most efficient drivers on the market
another was horns w Dyn MW180s


----------



## quality_sound

Well that makes me feel better. Now it's just deciding if they're better than the 6nd430s I already have. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Electrodynamic

Progress pics:

Got motors? Picture of a few motors assembled and charged at the motor assembly plant:









Motor and basket together:









Gift boxes:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Sweet!

And I like the chrome!


----------



## Electrodynamic

mwmkravchenko said:


> Sweet!
> 
> And I like the chrome!


Thanks! I had to go back to chrome after seeing the nickel finish. Much better looking and the tolerances are actually better with chrome. Win-Win.


----------



## Bminus

Looking good!!! I do believe Im gonna have to go ahead and preorder em in the next week or two, that is if the preorder sale will still be on then?


----------



## captainobvious

ErinH said:


> I got my 4 HT18's in today and can attest to the packing. Double boxed and styrofoam mold for the subs.



Lucky bastad. Those are such a terrific value for a HT setup. I'll be awaiting your impressions 


Oh and...only 4?? 

.


----------



## captainobvious

Those look terrific Nick. I'm digging the chrome motor finish as well- looks sharp. These are going to be an excellent addition to the wife's system.


----------



## quality_sound

Well, I just ordered a pair so I hope it's not too long of a wait and that they pair well with my horns. I'm dying to get started on everything.


----------



## captainobvious

quality_sound said:


> Well, I just ordered a pair so I hope it's not too long of a wait and that they pair well with my horns. I'm dying to get started on everything.


Will probably be a bit of a wait if the motors are still overseas.

I'm hoping to have mine late January/early February, but we're at the mercy of the factory :blush:

For the pricing though, they should certainly be worth the wait. If I have to, I'll slap some other cheap 6.5" drivers in there in the meantime.


----------



## quickaudi07

Nick, 

I have send you a email


----------



## quality_sound

captainobvious said:


> Will probably be a bit of a wait if the motors are still overseas.
> 
> I'm hoping to have mine late January/early February, but we're at the mercy of the factory :blush:
> 
> For the pricing though, they should certainly be worth the wait. If I have to, I'll slap some other cheap 6.5" drivers in there in the meantime.


That's what I'll do. Either leave the OEM midsbasses in the doors or, if they don't sell, my 6ND430s.


----------



## jode1967

certainly wanting a set of these. just would like to know more of when they are available for shipping


----------



## ImK'ed

Nick I know this is the wrong thread but how much would it cost me for a bm mkiv shipped to uk?


----------



## quickaudi07

Nick did you get my email?


----------



## Electrodynamic

quickaudi07 said:


> Nick did you get my email?


Nope. What is part of your email address (not the whole thing so spam bots don't see your entire email address) so I can search for it in my junk/spam filter?


----------



## Electrodynamic

jode1967 said:


> certainly wanting a set of these. just would like to know more of when they are available for shipping


Pre-order will be over and the drivers will be ready for shipment in February. Keep in mind that the parts are coming here and after they arrive the woofers still need to be built before they can be shipped out.


----------



## SO20thCentury

Dang, too pretty to hide in the door. Already felt bad enough about the BM MKIV being hid.


----------



## tjswarbrick

It'll look much better hidden in kick pods!


----------



## LaserSVT

February? 

That blows.


----------



## Coppertone

Well I will just list them as my Valentine's Day gift to my wife lol...


----------



## etroze

LaserSVT said:


> February?
> 
> That blows.


Still give me a shout when you are ready to give up those Millie's.


----------



## LaserSVT

They are still yours. 

Just may be a bit longer delay. 

I am anxious to review these dang things though. LOL


----------



## etroze

That's OK I'm still in for them even if it is February


----------



## ImK'ed

Thanks Nick got my package today, looks good cant wait to try it!


----------



## captainobvious

ImK'ed said:


> Thanks Nick got my package today, looks good cant wait to try it!






are you trying to start trouble? :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## ImK'ed

Being from uk Nick thought that it would be a good way to get more of an audience for his products so ive been sent a pair of pre production woofers they will be the same as the ones sold in feb.


----------



## captainobvious

ImK'ed said:


> Being from uk Nick thought that it would be a good way to get more of an audience for his products so ive been sent a pair of pre production woofers they will be the same as the ones sold in feb.




Makes sense. I'm sure you'll check back in with your impressions...? 


Nick: I've got the Valley Forge, PA market cornered here. I'm thinking I may need a pre-pro pair myself


----------



## Coppertone

Ummmm, nope, South Jersey people always come first as we face more hazards then you lol.


----------



## LaserSVT

ImK'ed said:


> Thanks Nick got my package today, looks good cant wait to try it!


You have the prototypes, no?


----------



## ImK'ed

I think I will stop twisting your arm guys! I just recieved my bm mkiv


----------



## captainobvious

ImK'ed said:


> I think I will stop twisting your arm guys! I just recieved my bm mkiv




Damn you sir...damn you.


----------



## ImK'ed

I wish I had the mids maybe soon! But I didnt want to hurt all of your feelings so thought I would tell truth lol


----------



## fredridge

I am deeply offended.... we did not throw off the shackles of a monarchy, just to they could get speakers first.


----------



## WhereAmEye?

fredridge said:


> I am deeply offended.... we did not throw off the shackles of a monarchy, just to they could get speakers first.


Very well spoken sir


----------



## LaserSVT

ImK'ed said:


> I think I will stop twisting your arm guys! I just recieved my bm mkiv


If you were in America i would kick you in the nuts.


----------



## ImK'ed

fredridge said:


> I am deeply offended.... we did not throw off the shackles of a monarchy, just to they could get speakers first.


History lesson right there!


----------



## ImK'ed

LaserSVT said:


> If you were in America i would kick you in the nuts.


I apologise , I plan to visit someday so spare my nuts


----------



## Coppertone

^^^. Lol...


----------



## Electrodynamic

Wow, I just read though this. I suppose it was a good way to keep the thread at the top but not nice to the customers who have pre-ordered. :sad:


----------



## Coppertone

Trust me my feelings aren't hurt as I know when the time comes to receive my products, it will be top notch gear.


----------



## RandyJ75

Coppertone said:


> Ummmm, nope, South Jersey people always come first as we face more hazards then you lol.


True dat.

Has anyone heard these speakers yet?


----------



## fredridge

Nick. No worries, we understand. Just having fun.


----------



## LaserSVT

ImK'ed said:


> I apologise , I plan to visit someday so spare my nuts


I ment it in a jokingly way. There are only a couple on here that need a nut kicking. You are not one of them.

Speaking of nut kicking, wonder whats up with my Illusion drivers?


----------



## ImK'ed

Electrodynamic said:


> Wow, I just read though this. I suppose it was a good way to keep the thread at the top but not nice to the customers who have pre-ordered. :sad:


I hope everyone knows it was just in good fun, nick the bm mkiv is one sexy piece of kit, cant wait to try it! Cant believe how fast it was shipped to me


----------



## aholland1198

Are these still slated to ship early January? On the fence, these look very nice.


----------



## quality_sound

February. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jel847

Without reading 22 pages how does one get in on this or did I miss the boat?


----------



## Coppertone

You've got time, just go to Nick's website and click on these. The price is one per just as a heads up.


----------



## Bayboy

Ordered!! I can wait patiently knowing I've solved one of the biggest issues I've had since owning the vehicle they're going in. :thumbsup:


----------



## SO20thCentury

no room in the door between the speaker hole and the window?


----------



## Bayboy

SO20thCentury said:


> no room in the door between the speaker hole and the window?


Pretty much... most raw 6.5-7" drivers that have enough throw have a mounting depth of 3". I have to use an extra thick baffle that protrudes out from the door card more than I'd like. Even using a .75" baffle outside of the panel leaves very very little room between the magnet & window track. Aesthetics are atrocious at that rate.


----------



## Bayboy

cajunner said:


> there is awesomeness in that shallow mid, I predict a cult favorite, forum boner, investment grade end result out of this.
> 
> so many cars with so little depth available without 'surgery' that these will be sought after, long after the initial run has gone out of production...


It's a trial run for me at least. Will it suit? To be determined once in my hands. The fact that it is a rare option that fits is worth the try. If not, then it's back to the drawing board and possibly the use of some car branded mid extracted from a decent set like the P660c which I'm willing to accept it's limited output in comparison. The fact that the SI will more than likely retain value makes the shot all the better.


----------



## sunshinefc3s

Sub'd. Sent payment for a set.


----------



## aznlunatic

I dont want to thread jack, but im interested in a pair of these drivers and thinking about pre-ordering, just recently recieved two BM MKIV's in the mail and absolutely love them. Only issue is I do not know if they will work well in my application. I currently run hybrid audio clarus 6.5 components active, the midbass plays 80hz to 5khz will these new drivers be able to play to up 5khz?


----------



## Bayboy

2.5khz


----------



## gckless

Just ordered. I'll be dropping these in, in place of my Exodus Anarchy's. Ran 2-way with Vifa NE25VTS's, off of a pair of channels on a Zed Levi III. Being the Anarchy is the main competitor (in terms of topology and mid-bass capabilities, that I can see anyway), I plan on writing up a review


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

aznlunatic said:


> I dont want to thread jack, but im interested in a pair of these drivers and thinking about pre-ordering, just recently recieved two BM MKIV's in the mail and absolutely love them. Only issue is I do not know if they will work well in my application. I currently run hybrid audio clarus 6.5 components active, the midbass plays 80hz to 5khz will these new drivers be able to play to up 5khz?


5khz is too high for any 6.5 to be playing, that size speaker beams well before that.


----------



## Bayboy

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> 5khz is too high for any 6.5 to be playing, that size speaker beams well before that.


Yep.... even with the stated 2.5khz, I would expect that to be on-axis which is hard to achieve in most installs (lower door). Probably more around 1khz or so being the norm. The main reason why I'm still going to pair them with a small mid.


----------



## bkjay

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> 5khz is too high for any 6.5 to be playing, that size speaker beams well before that.


This is true. For some reason Hybrid recommends that.


----------



## Bayboy

Still, it's probably worth noting that in Spyder's review the measured response in HIS car doors extended out to 2.5khz. Good enough to mate with a low resonance tweet. My door positioning isn't as great though.


----------



## quality_sound

The issue isn't how high they'll play. Any good 6.5" will play that high. The issue is that a 6.5" will be beaming. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## t3sn4f2

bkjay said:


> This is true. For some reason Hybrid recommends that.


That's more to do with protecting the tweeter than anything else. That 3/4" tweeter crossed over with a 12dB slope is typically going to severely strain if not crossed over that high. You'd have to spend north of $200 for a pair of sub compact 3/4" tweeters that could even begin to mate up with a 6.5" driver mounted off axis. And as mentioned above that would even be a huge stretch.


----------



## bkjay

Good point.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

t3sn4f2 said:


> That's more to do with protecting the tweeter than anything else. That 3/4" tweeter crossed over with a 12dB slope is typically going to severely strain if not crossed over that high. You'd have to spend north of $200 for a pair of sub compact 3/4" tweeters that could even begin to mate up with a 6.5" driver mounted off axis. And as mentioned above that would even be a huge stretch.


Sorry.

Not really a possibility.

Look at the low end output of a 3/4" tweeter. They really poop at 3000 hertz some even higher.

And your woofer is starting to beam where? Depending on diameter a normal Sd of 125 cm squared will start causing you problems around 1600 hertz.

You want a bigger tweeter. Or you will have a hole in your response. At the crossover slope you discussed you would need at least an octave of tweeter response below your crossover point. so divide your crossover point by two and see where your response is at.


----------



## t3sn4f2

mwmkravchenko said:


> Sorry.
> 
> Not really a possibility.
> 
> Look at the low end output of a 3/4" tweeter. They really poop at 3000 hertz some even higher.
> 
> And your woofer is starting to beam where? Depending on diameter a normal Sd of 125 cm squared will start causing you problems around 1600 hertz.
> 
> You want a bigger tweeter. Or you will have a hole in your response. At the crossover slope you discussed you would need at least an octave of tweeter response below your crossover point. so divide your crossover point by two and see where your response is at.





t3sn4f2 said:


> That's more to do with protecting the tweeter than anything else. That 3/4" tweeter crossed over with a 12dB slope is typically going to severely strain if not crossed over that high. You'd have to spend north of $200 for a pair of sub compact 3/4" tweeters that could *even begin to* mate up with a 6.5" driver mounted off axis. *And as mentioned above that would even be a huge stretch*.


I think we're in agreement.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Just a small update. The parts should be here by the end of this month. At that point I'll be able to start building the TM65's and ship them out to the people who have pre-ordered.


----------



## JoeHemi57

Electrodynamic said:


> Just a small update. The parts should be here by the end of this month. At that point I'll be able to start building the TM65's and ship them out to the people who have pre-ordered.


How long do you think the preorder will still be open? I'm thinking about a pair of these for midbass and a new sundown SD3 10 for my sub but still not sure about amps or a tweeter or wideband to pair with these. Open to suggestions though.


----------



## Lanson

I just hope it is around by the time my income tax refund money shows up. These and the SD3 (with some yet-undetermined tweeter or mid-tweeter) are probably going to make it in my new Focus ST.


----------



## thehatedguy

Make it a package deal and get some Sundown amps too.


----------



## Lymen

Mark you think your tweeters will complement these mids in a two way?


----------



## JoeHemi57

fourthmeal said:


> I just hope it is around by the time my income tax refund money shows up. These and the SD3 (with some yet-undetermined tweeter or mid-tweeter) are probably going to make it in my new Focus ST.


I should be able to do it Friday, just hope the preorder doesn't end before then. Congrats on the Focus ST, i don't even know what car these are going to go in but not my current one lol.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Lymen said:


> Mark you think your tweeters will complement these mids in a two way?


Nick plans on mating Mark's tweeters with these in a two way, as do I.


----------



## JoeHemi57

Lymen said:


> Mark you think your tweeters will complement these mids in a two way?





TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Nick plans on mating Mark's tweeters with these in a two way, as do I.


What are Mark's tweeters that you guys are referring to? Is it the KAXBLTWT?

Just want to make sure i haven't been on here in a while.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Yep those are the ones.


----------



## Babs

SB29's I bet. Fs 600hz. Running them now (NVX Version) crossed easily just above 2k.


----------



## Electrodynamic

JoeHemi57 said:


> How long do you think the preorder will still be open? I'm thinking about a pair of these for midbass and a new sundown SD3 10 for my sub but still not sure about amps or a tweeter or wideband to pair with these. Open to suggestions though.


Pre-order will stop the moment parts arrive to build the speakers.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

@Nick

I see you are having fun on the order delay merrygoround to!


----------



## Electrodynamic

mwmkravchenko said:


> @Nick
> 
> I see you are having fun on the order delay merrygoround to!


'Eh, it's ok.  I just had to update the web page to show an accurate ETA as the "early January" turned into "late January" but the drivers will be shipping in February as the parts are on their way to us right now. Myself and two or three other local speaker builders will be hand assembling all of the TM65's.


----------



## ChrisB

Argh, the pre-order is torturing me. On one hand, I really need to use the Genesis components that I have on hand since the woofers have no play time on them. On the other hand, I know these will be easy to integrate into my VW doors. I hate these decisions!


----------



## Bayboy

Patience is timely here. Allows concentration for accommodation & upgrades elsewhere. Once they're here they should drop right in & go.


----------



## MetricMuscle

Bayboy said:


> Ordered!! I can wait patiently knowing I've solved one of the biggest issues I've had since owning the vehicle they're going in. :thumbsup:


What car do you intend to mount these in?
Finally give in to the upgrade bug?
Just the fronts?


----------



## Bayboy

MetricMuscle said:


> What car do you intend to mount these in?
> Finally give in to the upgrade bug?
> Just the fronts?


These will be going in the doors of an older model S10. I've had others in there before, but since the doors weren't equipped from stock to hold anything, there has been some issues. Of course the panels had to be modified, as well as the inner skin. Still there is an issue with depth as the window track sits not far behind. This has always spilled over into limited choice of drivers so if something beefy is used, the baffle requires protruding out into the cabin more setting the drivers side more off-axis. Plus it winds up looking ugly!


----------



## The real Subzero

I ordered a pair. Hurry hurry hurry.


----------



## RMAT

Random question, but do you think these will fit the under seat enclosures in a BMW (E82 1 series).


----------



## tjswarbrick

RMAT said:


> Random question, but do you think these will fit the under seat enclosures in a BMW (E82 1 series).


Yes, I do.


----------



## captainobvious

Better get your orders in now if you've been waiting as it won't be much longer now until Nick has the parts in hand and the pre-order price will be over.


----------



## RMAT

Picked up a pair. Hopefully they workout .


----------



## Electrodynamic

captainobvious said:


> Better get your orders in now if you've been waiting as it won't be much longer now until Nick has the parts in hand and the pre-order price will be over.


Parts should be here on the 29'th of this month.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Great News! Thanks for the update.


----------



## WhiteL02

Awesome!!!


----------



## fredridge

This is a problem. Now I have to decide if I want a second pair immediately.


----------



## The real Subzero

The real Subzero said:


> I ordered a pair. Hurry hurry hurry.


hurry hurry hurry, gimmie gimmie gimmie


----------



## JSM-FA5

Is it still possible to pre order?


----------



## sunshinefc3s

JSM-FA5 said:


> Is it still possible to pre order?


TM65 6.5″ Woofer | Stereo Integrity


----------



## Electrodynamic

Parts are coming in tomorrow so I am closing down pre-order and regular ordering will commence.


----------



## rton20s

And let the posts of the regretful procrastinators begin.


----------



## Bayboy

Ha! But $80 more per set isn't too bad though... that's if they really want it.


----------



## cajunner

rton20s said:


> And let the posts of the regretful procrastinators begin.


I'm just glad the phase of undue temptation is now finally over with, I was really sweating it out not sending in my money and now I can relax knowing they have moved out of my comfort zone on price...


----------



## legend94

Electrodynamic said:


> Parts are coming in tomorrow so I am closing down pre-order and regular ordering will commence.


maybe you should cut it off at midnight tonight :surprised:


----------



## aholland1198

rton20s said:


> And let the posts of the regretful procrastinators begin.



Not me, made it by about one 
hour!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Weightless

Im a regretful procrastinator.  
Id be pissed about it, but ill do it later.


----------



## Bayboy

Not a big deal really... have to consider some may be waiting for further reviews from users of the mids that aren't the prototype. Plus, I'm sure some will be putting theirs up for sale at a later time as usual. Just a difference in excitement of being the first ones to try them I suppose.


----------



## captainobvious

cajunner said:


> I'm just glad the phase of undue temptation is now finally over with, I was really sweating it out not sending in my money and now I can relax knowing they have moved out of my comfort zone on price...


:laugh:

Sounds like a well thought out plan of internal psychological warfare, my friend. 



You'll be welcome to try out a pair I have coming if you'd be interested.


-Steve


----------



## Electrodynamic

cajunner said:


> I'm just glad the phase of undue temptation is now finally over with, I was really sweating it out not sending in my money and now I can relax knowing they have moved out of my comfort zone on price...


If price is your only concern with how your audio sounds here are these 6.5" speakers for sale: Click me. Pre-sale was there for a reason - to allow those genuinely early interested to receive a discount. The price did not go up 300% now that pre-order is over and I am not going to give the TM65's away as they beat up on speakers that sell for over $500 per piece in the midbass department. $280 per pair is a bargain. But I knew you would have something negative to say. If not, this would not be DIYMA.


----------



## Beckerson1

Bayboy said:


> Not a big deal really... have to consider some may be waiting for further reviews from users of the mids that aren't the prototype. Plus, I'm sure some will be putting theirs up for sale at a later time as usual. Just a difference in excitement of being the first ones to try them I suppose.


That will be me as im going a different route (going with a 8) but will hold onto these for a little bit. Will probably end up in the car for a short amount of time.


----------



## cajunner

Electrodynamic said:


> If price is your only concern with how your audio sounds here are these 6.5" speakers for sale: Click me. Pre-sale was there for a reason - to allow those genuinely early interested to receive a discount. The price did not go up 300% now that pre-order is over and I am not going to give the TM65's away as they beat up on speakers that sell for over $500 per piece in the midbass department. $280 per pair is a bargain. But I knew you would have something negative to say. If not, this would not be DIYMA.


how can you construe what I said as negative?

I would love to own a pair of your sweet XBL shallow midbasses, I am just not able to splurge on the audio as I'd like, and my comment was simply a defense mechanism to deflect from the common complaint of being in between funds at the moment. I'd gladly trade my best pair of unused, NIB Mpyre XBL midbasses for a chance at owning your latest, sir...



I have need of a shallow set, and you arguably have the most desirable product coming out, I don't see anything negative about that!!


----------



## captainobvious

Glad these are going to be on their way soon. Can't wait to check them out in person.


----------



## Coppertone

^^^, yes what he just typed lol.


----------



## gckless

How much of a sonic difference would there be running these at 2ohms vs. 8ohms, both given the same amount of power? 2ohms would allow me to have a single amp vs. two, but it's not a huge issue to have two.


----------



## quality_sound

8 Ohms will have more power in reserve. That's about it. Sonically they should be the same.


----------



## Bayboy

Inductance...


----------



## JSM-FA5

Missed the pre sale due to the usual excuse, lack of funds. How long will it take roughly to get a pair if I order in the next week?


----------



## kmcnamar

Can't wait for my set! Any idea on recommended amp size?


----------



## Bayboy

kmcnamar said:


> Can't wait for my set! Any idea on recommended amp size?


They're dual 4 ohm coils so just about any decent medium size amp should have enough power if in parallel. They're rated for about 150 IIRC so it would depend on how you like to design your system. Some like headroom and are careful with gains. Some like it fairly even. Others just use whatever they have. With 9mm of xmax, I don't think one should really be concerned unless they're just trying to dog the drivers out. Figure if most other drivers only have around 5mm and give plenty output, then why drive these even harder just because it's there? I would say 100 is more than enough probably and that's the beauty in it... a mere 50-75 watt at 4 ohm per channel amp should do well.


----------



## The real Subzero

Bayboy said:


> They're dual 4 ohm coils so just about any decent medium size amp should have enough power if in parallel. They're rated for about 150 IIRC so it would depend on how you like to design your system. Some like headroom and are careful with gains. Some like it fairly even. Others just use whatever they have. With 9mm of xmax, I don't think one should really be concerned unless they're just trying to dog the drivers out. Figure if most other drivers only have around 5mm and give plenty output, then why drive these even harder just because it's there? I would say 100 is more than enough probably and that's the beauty in it... a mere 50-75 watt at 4 ohm per channel amp should do well.


Arent they D4 coils, so that would mean either 2 ohm or 8 ohms per channel load. My Alpine MRD-F540s put out : 
RMS Power Rating (measured at 14.4V):

Per Channel Into a 4-Ohm Load: 80 watts x 4
Per Channel Into a 2-Ohm Load: 100 watts x 4
Bridged Into a 4-ohm Load: 200 watts x 2

RMS Power Rating (measured at 12.0V):

Per Channel Into a 4-Ohm Load: 50 watts x 4
Per Channel Into a 2-Ohm Load: 70 watts x 4
Bridged Into a 4-ohm Load: 140 watts x 2

What do yall think? good? ok? eek?


----------



## Bayboy

Run them parallel stereo and you'll be fine unless your looking for extra power for headroom. Bridged would only be stable in 8 since your amps aren't 2 ohm bridged capable. No gain over parallel in stereo.


----------



## cajunner

bridged in 8 ohm, will guarantee 100W per driver.

that amp is rated for a modest power increase into 2 ohms, and therefore would benefit from bridging into the 8 ohm nominal, since it retains 100% of the 4 ohm rating, which is doubled at 8 ohms bridged.

if you are asking about 2 of the amps being used, one per driver, that's a different scenario and bridging would put 280W per driver, a bit too much to publicly accept as suitable, although I'm sure there are people here who could make their speakers last even with that much power put through these 'early adopter' slim shady's.


----------



## captainobvious

cajunner said:


> bridged in 8 ohm, will guarantee 100W per driver.
> 
> that amp is rated for a modest power increase into 2 ohms, and therefore would benefit from bridging into the 8 ohm nominal, since it retains 100% of the 4 ohm rating, which is doubled at 8 ohms bridged.
> 
> if you are asking about 2 of the amps being used, one per driver, that's a different scenario and bridging would put 280W per driver, a bit too much to publicly accept as suitable, although I'm sure there are people here who could make their speakers last even with that much power put through these 'early adopter' slim shady's.



What about the increased noise floor from bridging?


----------



## rxonmymind

cajunner said:


> I'm just glad the phase of undue temptation is now finally over with, I was really sweating it out not sending in my money and now I can relax knowing they have moved out of my comfort zone on price...


Too funny....I hear you though. Though unrelated but somewhat the same I was bidding on stuff on eBay batting nails, pacing etc when the price bumped past my own comfort zone. A great relief! Sorta....


----------



## aholland1198

I assume there are a good number of drivers to assemble but with that being said has there been a time frame given on when these will begin shipping out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cajunner

captainobvious said:


> What about the increased noise floor from bridging?


I'd expect there may be possible intrusion, but those Alpine amps are usually pretty silent on the bottom.

I would weigh having 50 watts per driver, against the possible 140 as a matter of more significance than the 3-5 db of additional noise you might have to deal with, and if the hiss is bad you just unscrew them and reset the wiring to series.


----------



## cajunner

rxonmymind said:


> Too funny....I hear you though. Though unrelated but somewhat the same I was bidding on stuff on eBay batting nails, pacing etc when the price bumped past my own comfort zone. A great relief! Sorta....


well, I don't believe in the last 10 years, I paid more than 100 bucks on a single driver, except for subs of course.

which is just a sweet spot for me.

I feel like I can get as much performance as necessary without moving across that line, but I can see where others would consider that an obstacle to getting what they want.


----------



## The real Subzero

cajunner said:


> bridged in 8 ohm, will guarantee 100W per driver.
> 
> that amp is rated for a modest power increase into 2 ohms, and therefore would benefit from bridging into the 8 ohm nominal, since it retains 100% of the 4 ohm rating, which is doubled at 8 ohms bridged.
> 
> if you are asking about 2 of the amps being used, one per driver, that's a different scenario and bridging would put 280W per driver, a bit too much to publicly accept as suitable, although I'm sure there are people here who could make their speakers last even with that much power put through these 'early adopter' slim shady's.


likely I would use like I have it now. I have one amp bridged into a 2 channel at 4 ohms, but now with the new drivers, it will be bridged into a 2 channel at 8 ohms. other wise I will run them un bridged at 2 ohms.


----------



## LaserSVT

Still on pins and needles. Cant wait to sit down and review the piss out of them.


----------



## gckless

Same here. Unfortunately I'm in limbo right now, only have like 40W per mid while I'm switching amp setups 

After that though, around 200W at 8 ohms per mid 

Can't wait to get them in my hands and snap some pictures too!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

(Nicks shop right now:

Righty tighty lefty loosy...

Lefty tighty, oh ****!


Righty tighty.....


----------



## Bayboy

Hmmmm..... that sounds like hints to at least one of the projects. This is good!


----------



## The real Subzero

you think this will work in a rear fill application? Or should I find another pair of drivers for that?


----------



## Bayboy

The real Subzero said:


> you think this will work in a rear fill application? Or should I find another pair of drivers for that?



Can they work? Sure. Is it needed? I highly doubt it and would personally consider it a waste since you really don't need the capabilities of such a driver out back.


----------



## rton20s

The real Subzero said:


> you think this will work in a rear fill application? Or should I find another pair of drivers for that?


I would think there are a lot of other drivers that would make a better choice for rear fill than a shallow 6.5" designed with great bottom end extension in mind. If you're looking for a single driver, try something like a 3" full range that can cover a very broad spectrum.


----------



## cajunner

dammit I have to disagree!

I believe the fronts and the rears should have the same sonic signature, if possible. 

If this guy is willing to put a pair of these in the front, then the added presence in the rears will not draw attention to itself, like sometimes happens when speakers with wildly varying sonic character fuss over each other...


let there be many sold, and let this be a lesson to whoever thinks I'm being negative WRT these new products.

sell, sell!

and realistically, there are many rear locations that suffer as depth-challenged, and with the low price of these, the additional midbass provided by a proper Xmax in the boot, means that none of the mid bass array are limited by shallow frame bitsy..


so get on with it.


by the powers of Grey Skull, make 4 corner bliss a reality and give it a twist.


----------



## Bayboy

And does that include the use of a processor fully equipped to take advantage of having rears?


----------



## cajunner

Bayboy said:


> And does that include the use of a processor fully equipped to take advantage of having rears?


so the gauntlet is whether or not the added expense of these drivers is useful in the rear spots?

I'm not sure which front you're attacking, but I remain tranquil and relaxed.




what I think, is usually subjective and not worth a fight but here goes.

the four corner install is still alive and well, some people like to sit in the stage and some like to sit in front of it.

or some people prefer the wider array of sound effects that come from encoded material and use concert recordings with ambient information, and achieving that ambient response requires rear driver installations.

or, some people just listen to music that is dubious of a left-right design, and suffers none at all from noise in the rear.


no stage, no need for a stage-producing system, right?


so I think other parameters come into play here, and besides the implication that output from these long-throw 6.5" speakers is going to be prodigious, the ability to seamlessly install custom product is maybe more important than the ability to save money or for whatever reason, use any other speaker for rear channels.


so, what is it?


is it that the cost of these drivers makes one feel like they will be wasted on a rear "fill" use?

is it availability?

I don't know, but if I had the scratch to put a pair of these in front and not enough to do the back, it wouldn't be because I made up an excuse for it, I would definitely expect to find the best of all designs using these for both front and rear, based on my own observations and experiences over the years.

that is, if I like doing the back. Some people don't and I'm not knocking them, if they doing the front and that's what they like, hey...

do the front!

It's all good.


----------



## quality_sound

I think he was asking Subzero if he intended to use a surround processor. I don't think it had anything to do with your post.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Back OT...

The TM65 parts arrived this morning.epper: I grabbed one of the boxes and a few parts and brought it home with me tonight. The following pictures were taken on my kitchen counter. I am very pleased with the finish on the cone and most impressed by the chrome finish. They really knocked it out of the park this time.  Packaging looks good too - I'll post up a pic of the packaging in a few minutes when I go back downstairs. 

I am slammed right now but should be finished with the four HST woofers that are on my build table by either end of day tomorrow or Wednesday. I'll tackle the TM65's after the HST woofers are finished. Additionally someone else will be helping me build these drivers so they will go out a lot faster than they would if I were the only one building them. 

Pics:





































Note that these are pictures of an un-finished driver!!! No dust cap, tabs haven't been cut off, spider leads not soldered, nothing is glued, etc, these are just raw parts sitting inside of the basket.


----------



## crea_78

Looks nice Nick!


----------



## captainobvious

Looks like a very high quality finishing job on them Nick- congrats. Guess the build house really stepped up their game for this run. It pays to stay on top of them, eh? 


-Steve


----------



## seafish

Those look delicious!!


----------



## quality_sound

Hell yeah!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## aholland1198

Can't wait until mine show up. Thanks for the update. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bayboy

I can see right now when everything comes in I will have to take some vacation days for some "alone time". Just me caressing new gear.


----------



## SO20thCentury

^^^ Get a room!
hell, I might have to - so fine lookin


----------



## The real Subzero

I have an MS8. perhaps they will work just fine. We shall see.


----------



## Bayboy

The real Subzero said:


> I have an MS8. perhaps they will work just fine. We shall see.


Awww heck man. Then go for it. The MS-8 is designed just for that sort of configuration.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Electrodynamic said:


> Back OT...
> 
> The TM65 parts arrived this morning.


When is the estimated shipment of the driver?


----------



## Bayboy

If you look on their website it states that orders for the mid now at regular prices will be a 4 week waiting period. So I guess that's saying the early orders should be within that time frame. That's what I gathered.


----------



## bbfoto

Nick, those look really nice.  It's a shame that most installs will have that sexy backside hidden in the doors. Sound is what matters, though, so I'm sure the aural ecstasy projected from the front side will be quite pleasing.


----------



## Electrodynamic

We are still working out a few kinks for full-swing production. The first of the pre-ordered TM65's may start rolling out by the middle of next week.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Awesomesauce.


----------



## dgage

tjswarbrick said:


> Awesomesauce.


Julie?


----------



## rxonmymind

That is very nice. Well done!


----------



## tjswarbrick

dgage said:


> Julie?


Wait. Lisa?


----------



## Electrodynamic

TM65 differences in frequency response for prototype and production. 

Prototype:









Production: 









I noticed when I was uploading these that one has 1/96'th per octave smoothing and the other has no smoothing. I did not notice any difference in the response graph when I switched between the two smoothing options while using the same woofer - the response measurements were identical. 

The two main differences to notice is the dip around 500 Hz is gone on production and the rise from 800 Hz to 2.2k Hz is dramatically reduced and smoothed on the production unit. 

Both measurements were performed with the mic 0.5" away from the center of the dust cap with the driver in free-air.


----------



## WhiteL02

Can't wait!!!


----------



## Fast1one

Just ordered a pair of these and a BM MKIV this morning. These will be my first SI products and I'm excited to say the least


----------



## Bminus

Looks like the low frequency response came up a decibel or two as well. Will that be noticeable, maybe not, but still  SOOO excited for these!!!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Are you testing these on a baffle or free air?

And as for the top end response, Nice!

Well back at a computer and can read the little typing on the bottom.

Nearfield response. On axis.


----------



## Electrodynamic

mwmkravchenko said:


> Are you testing these on a baffle or free air?
> 
> And as for the top end response, Nice!
> 
> Well back at a computer and can read the little typing on the bottom.
> 
> Nearfield response. On axis.


Yes.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Steady beginning to production today. The first drivers will be shipping out tomorrow.  More (lots more) to follow the next week, and the week after, and the week after, etc. Pre-ordering was very good, haha.


----------



## quality_sound

I can't wait for mine!


----------



## sunshinefc3s

Can you include some beef jerky with my set? ;-)


----------



## capea4

sunshinefc3s said:


> Can you include some beef jerky with my set? ;-)


Ummmm jack links....


----------



## Electrodynamic

sunshinefc3s said:


> Can you include some beef jerky with my set? ;-)





capea4 said:


> Ummmm jack links....


Haha. I have that there for emergency hunger strikes. 

...and how did I know you guys would pick up on that being in the shot?


----------



## captainobvious

We don't miss a beat here Nick


----------



## sundownz

I've seen Nick building several of these things -- looking good


----------



## aznlunatic

Curious to see if there are any updates? Has the first batches of orders been shipped out? Just got into the market for some new mids and i totally missed out on the pre-order and i regret not going for them then. For a pair of mids that cost $300 I would hate to wait a long time to get them, I'm just impatient haha. So if ordered this week, do you have an estimate of maybe when they would get shipped out? Just trying to figure out if i should order now or just hold off until demands drop a bit.


----------



## SO20thCentury

:biggrinflip:After 3 1/2 months w no tunes doing sound deadening & car maintenance, i'm just about to fire up the new amps for these babies and KAXBLtweets!epper: 

:cwm8:

hope they fit w no mod:anxious:


----------



## Guest

** Whoever bought my spot for these wonderful midbass'... please contact me via PM **

Thanks


----------



## shillermanlite

I can't wait for these bad boys. Will you send a Paypal shipping notice when you ship out our orders?


----------



## LaserSVT

Looking forward to mine getting here. Have all this new wire and tweeters and everything just waiting for the next series of reviews.


----------



## WhiteL02

I'm having trouble figuring out which tweeters to go with these mids. Would like to crossover around 2000 with 12db scope.


----------



## The real Subzero

Electrodynamic said:


> Steady beginning to production today. The first drivers will be shipping out tomorrow.  More (lots more) to follow the next week, and the week after, and the week after, etc. Pre-ordering was very good, haha.


Hows that production going?


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Per the Facebook updates it looks like Nick has been at the mercy of the recent crazy weather hitting the east coast. I hope you guys are staying safe out there, no rush!


----------



## rton20s

Architect7 said:


> no rush!


----------



## sunshinefc3s

Ha. I wonder how many other clever ways people will think of to ask for status updates and rush Nick along. Maybe we should just let the man work.


----------



## Bayboy

sunshinefc3s said:


> Maybe we should just let the man work.


Exactly what I've been thinking!


----------



## 2010hummerguy

Exactly. I don't understand people who are impatient with preorders and group buys...


----------



## WhereAmEye?

I think everyone's just excited. That's why we have a thread about the speakers


----------



## rton20s

To be clear, my post of Neil Peart with the caption "DOES NOT APPROVE" was not in regards to wanting to see the 6.5s get pushed out the door. It was merely a play on words since Architect7 ended his post with "no rush." Neil Peart being the drummer for Rush, it seemed and appropriate image to post. I think Nick is doing a fine job and is just as anxious as his customers to get these 6.5s in their hands.


----------



## bertholomey

rton20s said:


> To be clear, my post of Neil Peart with the caption "DOES NOT APPROVE" was not in regards to wanting to see the 6.5s get pushed out the door. It was merely a play on words since Architect7 ended his post with "no rush." Neil Peart being the drummer for Rush, it seemed and appropriate image to post. I think Nick is doing a fine job and is just as anxious as his customers to get these 6.5s in their hands.


Well, I liked it!


----------



## foreman

I agree. And the whole month of February has been in the negative temps, so id hate it even more to have them on the shelf and not being able to use them


----------



## quality_sound

sunshinefc3s said:


> Ha. I wonder how many other clever ways people will think of to ask for status updates and rush Nick along. Maybe we should just let the man work.


While I agree with this 100%, 1. He's not checking the thread anyway, and 2. He's not going to speed up because we ARE posting light-hearted "we want the goods!" posts. It's all in jest and we're all just getting excited to get our new toys.


----------



## The real Subzero

All I asked was "hows the production going".


----------



## capea4

Well I'm in bermuda till April 2 so it really doesn't matter to me


----------



## Electrodynamic

I had a feeling that if I typed "TM65" that I would find this text. Note that we have had very bad weather here in NC this past week [icey weather which has not permitted many of us to reach our work place] so this past full week has been a wash as far as manufacturing is concerned. 

Secondly, we are reaching out to mutliple vested speaker manufacturers to see if they can help/assist in the prodution of the TM65 speakers. Sample pieces have been dispatched to them and we are awaiting on their analysis. Of course I will let you know the outcome of their solution.


----------



## legend94

You must have had one hell of a preorder


----------



## fredridge

Shouldn't bad weather mean that you are stuck inside working on speakers? I know we had some rain here this weekend and people boarded up their homes for the coming apocalypse


----------



## LaserSVT

WhiteL02 said:


> I'm having trouble figuring out which tweeters to go with these mids. Would like to crossover around 2000 with 12db scope.


I will be testing them with several types. Soft dome, Beryllium, Textile and AMT as well as maybe a titanium ribbon. Should give a nice range of what they work and/or dont work with.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

LaserSVT said:


> I will be testing them with several types. Soft dome, Beryllium, Textile and AMT as well as maybe a titanium ribbon. Should give a nice range of what they work and/or dont work with.


Which AMT and ribbon will you be using? I might try AMT too, probably one of the larger Dayton models.


----------



## Electrodynamic

fredridge said:


> Shouldn't bad weather mean that you are stuck inside working on speakers? I know we had some rain here this weekend and people boarded up their homes for the coming apocalypse


I don't have all the necessary tools at my house to build speakers. That, and having hot soldering irons and toxic fumes [without a mask] around an active two and a half year old is never a good idea.  

While the sample parts/speakers take their sweet time to arrive at the possible future assembly plant we are still working on churning out as many TM65's as possible. I have reached out to three other local trusted speaker builders for their help in building the TM65's as well. All of their comments are the same - they all reply with "these things are SO labor intensive!" But hopefully in a few weeks I will have an answer/price on assembly from the assembly plant. Even if their price means zero profit on the pre-ordered speakers I am going to give them the go-ahead. It helps that they are XBL^2 licensed and also recommended by Dan Wiggins.


----------



## Bayboy

Hopefully it doesn't come down to zero profits, but many understand & respect your dedication in working on the issue. This weather has been hell for everyone.


----------



## captainobvious

We all knew we signed up for a wait for these Nick. If they start shipping out a few at a time in the order they were pre-ordered, I don't think anyone should have a problem with that. I think we all understand we're not dealing with a big factory with a large assembly team. This is part of the reason why we are able to get such a high level of performance and quality at a lower price point.

Slow and steady progress, my friend! 


-Steve


----------



## sunshinefc3s

captainobvious said:


> We all knew we signed up for a wait for these Nick. If they start shipping out a few at a time in the order they were pre-ordered, I don't think anyone should have a problem with that. I think we all understand we're not dealing with a big factory with a large assembly team. This is part of the reason why we are able to get such a high level of performance and quality at a lower price point.
> 
> Slow and steady progress, my friend!
> 
> -Steve


Agreed!


----------



## quality_sound

captainobvious said:


> We all knew we signed up for a wait for these Nick. If they start shipping out a few at a time in the order they were pre-ordered, I don't think anyone should have a problem with that. I think we all understand we're not dealing with a big factory with a large assembly team. This is part of the reason why we are able to get such a high level of performance and quality at a lower price point.
> 
> Slow and steady progress, my friend!
> 
> 
> -Steve


This. Absolutely, this.


----------



## foreman

Yeah Nick, don't go fretting over a week or two of getting these out Vs. making a profit. You're in business to make money, which i know you understand. People are going to piss and moan no matter what. If it takes time, it takes time. So be it.


----------



## cajunner

I just like posting in this thread, for some reason...


----------



## LaserSVT

Architect7 said:


> Which AMT and ribbon will you be using? I might try AMT too, probably one of the larger Dayton models.


The larger round Daytons. I will have to cut the face to make them oval but my plan should work and give one very wide sound stage if it goes as planned. I actually have several tweeters to pair these with and bought all new OFC 14 awg high strand copper wire to get rid of the silver 16awg i have now.
I just want to see what the SIs work with but I have a gut feeling they are going to be amazballs with the AMTs. I think I need another 500/1 though so the subs can keep up. 300 per BM MKIV just aint quite enough. LOL


----------



## Evoboy

Weather sucks here in SE VA also, so even if I had my set, it's too damn cold to install them. Take your time, like many others have pointed out, we knew when we pre-ordered what we were getting into. I can easily be patient knowing I have a high quality, high performance piece of equipment on the way . . . My problem is now deciding if I want to go with another set in the rear doors to create some of that rear fill ambiance, or to take advantage of the 5.1/7.1 sound in my MS8. Either way, my next SI order will be for 2 of the Mk IV's - probably drop that order Friday Nick.
Can't wait!!!!


----------



## quality_sound

Hell, it's still snowing in friggin New Mexico. I really don't think too many people would be installing them right now even if you could ship them, Nick. Just relax and rest up for the push when the weather is better.


----------



## 2010hummerguy

LaserSVT said:


> The larger round Daytons. I will have to cut the face to make them oval but my plan should work and give one very wide sound stage if it goes as planned. I actually have several tweeters to pair these with and bought all new OFC 14 awg high strand copper wire to get rid of the silver 16awg i have now.
> I just want to see what the SIs work with but I have a gut feeling they are going to be amazballs with the AMTs. I think I need another 500/1 though so the subs can keep up. 300 per BM MKIV just aint quite enough. LOL


Nice, I've been looking at those as well. Definitely looking forward to seeing how you like them.


----------



## thehatedguy

It was in the 70s yesterday, upper 60s and rain where we are at...but dropping back down a lot in the next few days.

Yesterday was nearly the perfect day to work on a car.


----------



## cajunner

thehatedguy said:


> It was in the 70s yesterday, upper 60s and rain where we are at...but dropping back down a lot in the next few days.
> 
> Yesterday was nearly the perfect day to work on a car.


hit 85 in NOLA, broke the record!

imagine 85 freaking degrees, in 100% humidity.

I'm not ready for summer...

:mean:


----------



## LaserSVT

I am thinking of getting a spare one for my Klipsch computer speakers. I replaced the factory sub with a Dayton Classic 6.5 and was a huge improvement. I think the SI would really give some better growl.


----------



## Picaro

cajunner said:


> hit 85 in NOLA, broke the record!
> 
> imagine 85 freaking degrees, in 100% humidity.
> 
> I'm not ready for summer...
> 
> :mean:


Yes, and yet today it's wet, windy, and in the 40's on the northsore. What the hell?! Crazy @ss weather, lol.


----------



## fredridge

two and a half and you don't have the kid building speakers yet??? 


No problem, was just having fun.... and BTW THANKS 



Electrodynamic said:


> I don't have all the necessary tools at my house to build speakers. That, and having hot soldering irons and toxic fumes [without a mask] around an active two and a half year old is never a good idea.


----------



## SO20thCentury

^^review please fredridge!


----------



## shillermanlite

SO20thCentury said:


> ^^review please fredridge!


I just got a shipping notice from FedEx and can't wait. It looks like sundown is helping fulfill the orders. Has anybody else received theirs?


----------



## fredridge

review - 

Part one
Nick boxes these things like they are a Faberge egg.

Part two
They are beautiful

Part three
they stack nicely in my closet  

actually, rethinking using them in my current ride and still need my tweeters.

I may want to save them for a better install, as this care is going to be simple





SO20thCentury said:


> ^^review please fredridge!


----------



## Alrojoca

Hope to get to listen to a set of these great drivers in the future, or own a pair eventually


----------



## Bayboy

Waiting on both mids and mkiv to ship. Will be interesting to see what that combo will do


----------



## captainobvious

Sweet! Hopefully I'll be seeing mine soon then too


----------



## Coppertone

Maybe ours will arrive at the same time lol.


----------



## Electrodynamic

shillermanlite said:


> I just got a shipping notice from FedEx and can't wait. It looks like sundown is helping fulfill the orders. Has anybody else received theirs?


We use Sundown's shipping hub. No need to use a separate bay door. We are located inside their building afterall.


----------



## quality_sound

Hopefully mine show up in the next couple of weeks. I'll be out of town from the 1st-7th. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LaserSVT

shillermanlite said:


> I just got a shipping notice from FedEx and can't wait. It looks like sundown is helping fulfill the orders. Has anybody else received theirs?


My notice from FedEx came in on Thursday saying "Couldnt deliver" and was from Sundown. I couldn't for the life of me think what I would have ordered from them and then saw your post and got so excited I started to vibrate.
Called FedEx and had it rerouted (still at this point didnt know what it was) to where the truck goes at night so I could pick them up only it never updated to "Its ready to be picked up." I called again Friday and they said it takes a day even though I requested pickup at the port where the truck goes back to but I can have them Saturday. I then see your post and that others are getting theirs so I get even more excited thinking maybe its the pair of TMs for the car and the one for the house. I check my email like 50 times on Saturday before calling and find they rerouted it to the FedEx office near my house so I can pick it (or them) up on Monday.
I hate that office because the steps give me CDO (OCD in alphabetical order) nightmares. LOL
So this is the longest Sunday ever. Next week will be the longest week ever if the trucks ones came as well because I have to tear down the whole truck for a rewire (bought all new OFC speaker wire) and to mod the door panels for the new tweeters and cant do it until next weekend. LOL


----------



## Coppertone

Well at the rate that people are getting their Fedex notices, I should have mine within the next three weeks.


----------



## fredridge

For those of you who are getting impatient, I would be happy to sell mine ...... For one million dollars muahahaha


----------



## LaserSVT

fredridge said:


> For those of you who are getting impatient, I would be happy to sell mine ...... For one million dollars muahahaha


----------



## SO20thCentury

[/URL][/IMG]
aint that purty!


----------



## iroller

Does anyone not need these now and want to sell there pre order ones, i could use a set.


----------



## WhiteL02

SO20thCentury said:


> [/URL][/IMG]
> aint that purty!



Oh yes it is! Can't wait to receive mine. What do you think so far?


----------



## The real Subzero

SO20thCentury said:


> [/URL][/IMG]
> aint that purty!


I bet those will look sharp with some red LEDs glowing off them in my doors. 
Hope I get mine soon.


----------



## SO20thCentury

WhiteL02 said:


> Oh yes it is! Can't wait to receive mine. What do you think so far?


Still working on installing them. They're massive as hell and the magnet's super strong. I think they'll fit in the door opening ok but holding them by hand in there to check alignment the magnet pulls it to the door metal. 








[/URL][/IMG]

The flange around the magnet has 1/4" clearance around it to the door metal. With a good solid backing ring it can be aligned but will it cause any problems for it to be operating so close to that metal?


----------



## LaserSVT

Argh, cant wait. I have one in my computer speaker sub box and it just shakes the whole house! Cant wait cant wait cant wait. 
Just got done testing to see if its companion will fit......


----------



## Alrojoca

Nice shots I'd like to see more from the back 

When was the pre order deadline for these? I can't find that info and shipping was $80 for both?


----------



## Electrodynamic

Alrojoca said:


> Nice shots I'd like to see more from the back
> 
> When was the pre order deadline for these? I can't find that info and shipping was $80 for both?


Nope. Shipping is flat rate now.

...unless you live in the South Pole.


----------



## LaserSVT

Spending precious speaker building time online.


----------



## Electrodynamic

It's 1:40 AM. I don't think you would want me to building your speakers that this hour. 

You may end up with a 4" coil shoved in a 1.5" coil motor. Somehow. Haha.


----------



## LaserSVT

LMAO


----------



## SO20thCentury

Electrodynamic said:


> It's 1:40 AM. I don't think you would want me to building your speakers that this hour.
> 
> You may end up with a 4" coil shoved in a 1.5" coil motor. Somehow. Haha.


Is this available by pre-order?


----------



## LaserSVT

Pre order has been over for quite some time. They are available for purchase though.


----------



## JSM-FA5

I think he was making a joke about the 4 inch cool into the 1.5 coil motor haha


----------



## LaserSVT

JSM-FA5 said:


> I think he was making a joke about the 4 inch cool into the 1.5 coil motor haha


----------



## t3sn4f2

SO20thCentury said:


> Still working on installing them. They're massive as hell and the magnet's super strong. I think they'll fit in the door opening ok but holding them by hand in there to check alignment the magnet pulls it to the door metal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/IMG]
> 
> *The flange around the magnet has 1/4" clearance around it to the door metal. With a good solid backing ring it can be aligned but will it cause any problems for it to be operating so close to that metal?*


What range with it be playing?

Edit: Scratch that. It looks REALLY tight in there. I would open it up quite a bit more, especially considering the output potential of this driver.

Even a Linkwitz Pluto woofer isn't that restricted.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Pluto/Pluto-2.1.htm


----------



## SO20thCentury

Restriction to air movement? Didn't think of that. Dang


----------



## The real Subzero

Anyone got any reviews yet? How are these beast performing?


----------



## Bayboy

The real Subzero said:


> Anyone got any reviews yet? How are these beast performing?


Been wondering this myself as I'm quite sure more sets have been shipped than some are reporting. Perhaps they're stored in the closet for now as weather is still foul in many places.


----------



## aholland1198

Still eagerly awaiting the arrival of mine. Might take me a week or so so I can make new baffles, but I anticipate a significant improvement. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bayboy

I'm far down the line as I ordered not too long before the prebuy ended so I'm cool with it. Gives me plenty of time to finish deciding on vehicles.


----------



## Coppertone

For those who have received yours, did you get an email first announcing it was coming ?


----------



## shillermanlite

Coppertone said:


> For those who have received yours, did you get an email first announcing it was coming ?


Yes, FedEx will send you an email once the pickup has been scheduled.


----------



## Coppertone

Then I am so hopeful that mine will be soon lol.


----------



## LaserSVT

Coppertone said:


> For those who have received yours, did you get an email first announcing it was coming ?


I never get one until they say they couldn't deliver it. Then I have to wait another several days to get it from the FedEx office because fedEx sucks.

I HOPE this time Nick remembers to email me the tracking number when mine go out so I can reroute them to the local FedEx office and actually have them on the day they are supposed to be delivered.


----------



## Coppertone

Oh wow, well I placed my order in December, so I'm hopeful to have them before my birthday next week. Hey a man can be hopeful can't he lol.


----------



## Alrojoca

I know it's over, and details hard to find.
What's the estimate average wait time from pre order payment to actual possession of the speakers?


----------



## LaserSVT

It is not a linear measurement. People who ordered them a month latter than someone else wont necessarily have to wait an extra month to get theirs. He has the parts now which was the big holdup. Now he just has to find time to assemble them. Busy dude.


----------



## Alrojoca

Oh that's OK, I guess I just need to use PM since the info is not available or will not be given, guaranteed on a thread etc. Not even estimates. I know how that is. 

Not hard to figure out since some are just arriving and the this thread started in late July, or we can say August just to give an extra month of cushion.


----------



## cajunner

Alrojoca said:


> Oh that's OK, I guess I just need to use PM since the info is not available or will not be given, guaranteed on a thread etc. Not even estimates. I know how that is.
> 
> Not hard to figure out since some are just arriving and the this thread started in late July, or we can say August just to give an extra month of cushion.


4 weeks ago Electrodynamic posted that the first orders were shipping.

what is it you are trying to determine?

I would suspect that the timeline for receiving speakers, isn't dependent on the point in time from which you paid, and is entirely up to the people handling the orders and unless I am mistaken, that is their right.

If I had made an order, I probably would be last, and USPS would lose my box, lol...

but that's how it is, when you're an elitist on the internets, eh?


----------



## jdsoldger

I may have to consider these when it comes time to upgrade the midbasses in my Fit... Not sure how much fun trying to shoehorn the RS180s in will be compared to just getting something like this...


----------



## Alrojoca

Just trying to learn how things are done, can't control the volume and can't risk to have too much inventory. Just like many small manufacturers and it is good to be able to offer good products even if there is wait time.

Good history and good products, maybe it is time for the Shark Tank :laugh:


----------



## Electrodynamic

Honestly we have had a hiccup in production over the past few weeks and no TM65's have gone out the door.  However, I will be dedicating tomorrow and Friday to personally building as many TM65's as I can to attempt to catch back up.


----------



## capea4

Well thanks sir. I am happy to wait for a set hand built by you, that's what I thought I was getting. No hurry here


----------



## LaserSVT




----------



## Babs

Electrodynamic said:


> Honestly we have had a hiccup in production over the past few weeks and no TM65's have gone out the door.  However, I will be dedicating tomorrow and Friday to personally building as many TM65's as I can to attempt to catch back up.


Just imagine the demand when you do a new IB-capable 15.  I'm told there was one that used to be in the mix that folks still mourn over.


----------



## legend94

Electrodynamic said:


> Honestly we have had a hiccup in production over the past few weeks and no TM65's have gone out the door.  However, I will be dedicating tomorrow and Friday to personally building as many TM65's as I can to attempt to catch back up.



Well at least you updated everyone here, or did you? I am so glad I didn't get in on the pre order on these.

Another thing that was a little irritating is how you ended the preorder.

Not to mention your other threads where you get all emotional and leave the thread and come back. 

I'm sure I will get some flack for this but I think you need someone to manage the front of house and you stay out of the public arena. 

Maybe I am the only one put off by your attitude....


----------



## gregerst22

From what I've seen this is the nature of doing pre-orders in general. There's always issues and that's primarily why I won't pre-buy and participate in them. There's too many factors that can delay or hold up the process and frankly I don't want to know or have to care about it. I'd rather order the product I want and have it shipped to my door, preferably within a a few days. Who cares if I pay a few dollars more. At least I'm working within my own plans and schedule. If the driver isn't available when I'm ready then maybe I'll buy something else. I'm not beholden to factors out of my control. Fewer gray hairs this way. 
On top of that I'd rather hear from a few people on how well the product performs instead of being a guinea pig.


----------



## spyders03

TM65 update:

I have gotten in my production set of drivers recently, and i have noticed that they bottom end is very happy. What I mean by this is it takes less power to get the bottom end to the same spl level, meaning you can use a slightly higher order crossover, and get the same output on the bottom end (under 50hz).

I must say, these have been some of the (if not THE) most detailed midbass drivers I have ever used, specially at higher volumes, and they DO like the higher volumes  . I have them hooked up at 8 ohm now, and they still don't have any problem keeping up with the rest of my system, although I would like to test them at 2 ohm, and see if my amp won't argue too much (being bridged). So far I am extremely happy with these, and can't imagine another 6.5 being any better, specially all things considered (mounting depth, xmax, motor strength, indestructible coil  , etc etc). All I can say is, I am glad I jumped on the pre-order as soon as it went up, and these have definitely been worth the wait! You guys won't be disappointed.


----------



## spyders03

TM65 update:

I have gotten in my production set of drivers recently, and i have noticed that they bottom end is very happy. What I mean by this is it takes less power to get the bottom end to the same spl level, meaning you can use a slightly higher order crossover, and get the same output on the bottom end (under 50hz).

I must say, these have been some of the (if not THE) most detailed midbass drivers I have ever used, specially at higher volumes, and they DO like the higher volumes  . I have them hooked up at 8 ohm now, and they still don't have any problem keeping up with the rest of my system, although I would like to test them at 2 ohm, and see if my amp won't argue too much (being bridged). So far I am extremely happy with these, and can't imagine another 6.5 being any better, specially all things considered (mounting depth, xmax, motor strength, indestructible coil  , etc etc). All I can say is, I am glad I jumped on the pre-order as soon as it went up, and these have definitely been worth the wait! You guys won't be disappointed.


----------



## jdsoldger

So theoretically, you could drive each coil in the voice coil with a sepperate amp channel? Yes? Instead of running the amp bridged, just connect each channel to one part of the voice coil? Need a second speaker wire run though...


----------



## LaserSVT

spyders03 said:


> TM65 update:
> 
> I have gotten in my production set of drivers recently, and i have noticed that they bottom end is very happy. What I mean by this is it takes less power to get the bottom end to the same spl level, meaning you can use a slightly higher order crossover, and get the same output on the bottom end (under 50hz).
> 
> I must say, these have been some of the (if not THE) most detailed midbass drivers I have ever used, specially at higher volumes, and they DO like the higher volumes  . I have them hooked up at 8 ohm now, and they still don't have any problem keeping up with the rest of my system, although I would like to test them at 2 ohm, and see if my amp won't argue too much (being bridged). So far I am extremely happy with these, and can't imagine another 6.5 being any better, specially all things considered (mounting depth, xmax, motor strength, indestructible coil  , etc etc). All I can say is, I am glad I jumped on the pre-order as soon as it went up, and these have definitely been worth the wait! You guys won't be disappointed.


Glad to hear it! Even more anxious now. 
I plan on running mine at 2 ohms even though with my amp it makes the same power at 1.5-8 ohms. I have a single one at home running 8 ohms and takes a bit more power than the Dayton it replaced (as a subwoofer).


jdsoldger said:


> So theoretically, you could drive each coil in the voice coil with a sepperate amp channel? Yes? Instead of running the amp bridged, just connect each channel to one part of the voice coil? Need a second speaker wire run though...


Great way to add distortion. Also with most amps, 8ohm bridged is the same power as 4 ohms stereo.


----------



## jdsoldger

LaserSVT said:


> Great way to add distortion. Also with most amps, 8ohm bridged is the same power as 4 ohms stereo.


Yeah, I thought about it a bit more and it would make the same power. Why would it increase distortion though? Inductive feedback between the channels maybe?


----------



## SO20thCentury

spyders03 said:


> TM65 update:
> 
> I have gotten in my production set of drivers recently, and i have noticed that they bottom end is very happy. What I mean by this is it takes less power to get the bottom end to the same spl level, meaning you can use a slightly higher order crossover, and get the same output on the bottom end (under 50hz).
> 
> I must say, these have been some of the (if not THE) most detailed midbass drivers I have ever used, specially at higher volumes, and they DO like the higher volumes  . I have them hooked up at 8 ohm now, and they still don't have any problem keeping up with the rest of my system, although I would like to test them at 2 ohm, and see if my amp won't argue too much (being bridged). So far I am extremely happy with these, and can't imagine another 6.5 being any better, specially all things considered (mounting depth, xmax, motor strength, indestructible coil  , etc etc). All I can say is, I am glad I jumped on the pre-order as soon as it went up, and these have definitely been worth the wait! You guys won't be disappointed.


:bigcry: eatin my heart out! Them ducks just refuse to get in a row


----------



## cajunner

I could see a system using the new Sony head unit with it's class D 4 channel amp built in, with 40W RMS front left and rear left, being funneled into the same driver via dual coils.

That would give you 80W RMS from a deck, to push a 6.5" driver.

that and a passive network on a really sweet tweeter, say the group buy Kravchenko XBL babies that are in the pipe, would be a fine showing.

Deck and 2, just a front stage that fits anywhere and probably hard to beat on SQ.

bluetooth, too...

and basic time alignment!

with pre-order pricing, what? 600 bucks total using a cap crossover?

would be interesting, I wonder how close the sensitivity of the KAXBLTWT and the TM65 are, in practice?

I could see this going in a '95-'99 Chevrolet extra cab's doors...


----------



## LaserSVT




----------



## gckless

Dang! Gimme!

Glad I got on the preorder for sure, and I don't even have them yet.


----------



## jriggs

legend94 said:


> Well at least you updated everyone here, or did you? I am so glad I didn't get in on the pre order on these.
> 
> Another thing that was a little irritating is how you ended the preorder.
> 
> Not to mention your other threads where you get all emotional and leave the thread and come back.
> 
> I'm sure I will get some flack for this but I think you need someone to manage the front of house and you stay out of the public arena.
> 
> Maybe I am the only one put off by your attitude....


Got to say that I agree with this post. I currently run an SI sub and it rocks. I love it. However, I have had very negative personal interactions with Nick that have only been "made good" by another fellow member, bertholomey. The attitude sucks, the product kicks ass.


----------



## crea_78

My opinion of Nick since I have met him in person is a very nice and down-to-earth guy. I guess anyone can have their "moments" and act irrational at times...


----------



## Coppertone

Well I'm hopeful that FedEx contacts me Monday with a tracking number.


----------



## Electrodynamic

jriggs said:


> Got to say that I agree with this post. I currently run an SI sub and it rocks. I love it. However, I have had very negative personal interactions with Nick that have only been "made good" by another fellow member, bertholomey. The attitude sucks, the product kicks ass.


Did you contact us about your issue or did you go through Jason (bertholomey)? Leaving such an open post does not indicate your situation in full. What did we do or not do?


----------



## 1fishman

Any estimate as to when all the pre-orders may be sent out? Thanks


----------



## jriggs

Electrodynamic said:


> Did you contact us about your issue or did you go through Jason (bertholomey)? Leaving such an open post does not indicate your situation in full. What did we do or not do?


It all started with direct communication with you Nick. I did as instructed, to contact you with the details of my current system, in response to your promo offer to sell the BM MKIV at a discount to those who would agree to do a review. 

At the time, I was running two 15" Dayton subs. You immediately took me for a basshead/SPL guy because of the 15" and told me I was not the right customer for you subs. I was pretty pissed off that you did not take the time to know why/how I was using those subs, and why I was wanting to switch to the BM MKIV. Instead, you blew me off, because I was not the right customer for you. So I posted about my experience communicating with you on May 18, 2014 in the promo offer thread:



> Unfortunately slots are not for the first 20 but rather those deemed worthy. I want in on 2 subs and will give a proper review, but Electrodynamic seems to think I am not the "right" customer for this special offer.


Bertholomey saw this and reached out to me to try an mediate. 

Look, I agree with the fact that you make awesome subs (I am very satisfied with the Mag d2 V4) and I agree with what was said by Legend94 "you need someone to manage the front of house and you stay out of the public arena".


----------



## Mic10is

Ive met Nick. He was nice enough to give me a tour of his facility and show some new products he is working on, like the 24" subs etc...

talked to him again, briefly at Jason's fall meet. 

He makes a solid product and is pretty chill in person.

I think a lot of people need to take some chill the **** out pills and get out from behind the computers.

Lets get this post back on Topic--personal bashing isnt on topic


----------



## Coppertone

Hope all is well as far as getting back on schedule. I would like to be able to try these out in my current build just to have an honest comparison between my three choices.


----------



## cajunner

Coppertone said:


> Hope all is well as far as getting back on schedule. I would like to be able to try these out in my current build just to have an honest comparison between my three choices.


will these be going head to head with the Dynaudio Esotar 650's?


----------



## Bayboy

I personally would never patronize a business that I had issues with. There's plenty of other viable companies to deal with than to say such things and still expect a fair shake. That said, I look forward to auditioning the products whether they turn out not to be as expected or better than imagined. If not, I'd move on to something else like everyone else does.


----------



## legend94

Mic10is said:


> Ive met Nick. He was nice enough to give me a tour of his facility and show some new products he is working on, like the 24" subs etc...
> 
> talked to him again, briefly at Jason's fall meet.
> 
> He makes a solid product and is pretty chill in person.
> 
> I think a lot of people need to take some chill the **** out pills and get out from behind the computers.
> 
> Lets get this post back on Topic--personal bashing isnt on topic


Mic, I like you and you are always helpful.

However, what has been said that has not been the truth?

It's funny you mention a tour of the place because I asked him probably over a year ago if I drove over to his place and bought a few things if I could be shown around. Guess what? I was told I no.

Maybe he has had a change in policy 

I think with him it's how his junk is presently hanging when he makes decisions. 

I'm just tired of him getting a free pass on things where other manufacturers wouldn't. 

Where am I wrong? Where am I or anyone else on here bashing?

Well one little bash, he will probably read a few this and leave the thread.....for a week hiatus!


----------



## gregerst22

spyders03 said:


> TM65 update:
> 
> I have gotten in my production set of drivers recently, and i have noticed that they bottom end is very happy. What I mean by this is it takes less power to get the bottom end to the same spl level, meaning you can use a slightly higher order crossover, and get the same output on the bottom end (under 50hz).
> 
> I must say, these have been some of the (if not THE) most detailed midbass drivers I have ever used, specially at higher volumes, and they DO like the higher volumes  . I have them hooked up at 8 ohm now, and they still don't have any problem keeping up with the rest of my system, although I would like to test them at 2 ohm, and see if my amp won't argue too much (being bridged). So far I am extremely happy with these, and can't imagine another 6.5 being any better, specially all things considered (mounting depth, xmax, motor strength, indestructible coil  , etc etc). All I can say is, I am glad I jumped on the pre-order as soon as it went up, and these have definitely been worth the wait! You guys won't be disappointed.


Your statements are VERY subjective to the point of needing to completely ignore them. You say they're the most detailed midbass you've heard, and they take less power etc etc but what are you comparing them to? And is it a direct comparison to drivers you had in the same vehicle with the same amp, HU etc? 
Now if you said you swapped them out directly with a pair of xyz drivers and in comparison these are better in these ways etc. I might pay a little bit of attention to it.


----------



## captainobvious

gregerst22 said:


> Your statements are VERY subjective to the point of needing to completely ignore them. You say they're the most detailed midbass you've heard, and they take less power etc etc but what are you comparing them to? And is it a direct comparison to drivers you had in the same vehicle with the same amp, HU etc?
> Now if you said you swapped them out directly with a pair of xyz drivers and in comparison these are better in these ways etc. I might pay a little bit of attention to it.


Or..Or... You could take a second to view his build log and see what he has been running and his experience. I believe he has a *bit* of competition experience and success too (?)


----------



## spyders03

gregerst22 said:


> Your statements are VERY subjective to the point of needing to completely ignore them. You say they're the most detailed midbass you've heard, and they take less power etc etc but what are you comparing them to? And is it a direct comparison to drivers you had in the same vehicle with the same amp, HU etc?
> Now if you said you swapped them out directly with a pair of xyz drivers and in comparison these are better in these ways etc. I might pay a little bit of attention to it.


Ignore all you want, but I don't have an omnimic setup (or a Klippel setup) to take distortion measurements, and I have already posted up the bare RTA graph that was takin in my vehicle with no EQ, from the drivers headrest, you are free to view it in the reviews section http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/171317-stereo-integrity-tm65-objective-subjective-results.html. One point that you do have, is I did not clarify very well. They are the most detailed "6.5" driver I have heard in the midbass region. And yes, in the same vehicle, I have had Peerless, SB Acoustics, Infinity, Hertz, Silver Flutes, and a bunch of others that I can not recall at this time. I have heard many many more, as I not only compete, but also judge. I was also awared with "Judge of the Year" last year for MECA, so I have heard a vehicle or two, along with winning my class at world finals last year (as well as a couple state championships, national points champion, and many other accolades). I have even written an article for PASMag on how power from amplifiers are used during actual musical listening instead of just bench tests. I don't think I am the end all be all of ears, or reviews, but I do think I am plenty qualified to make a subjective post on a pair of drivers. If you don't want to trust some guy on the internet, that's fine with me, just know that I'm not some dude that heard from his friend that knows a guy that read something on the internet on a forum once. I apologize if any of this sounded harsh, but I'm just trying to help out the community on a product that not many people have got the chance to hear yet.



captainobvious said:


> Or..Or... You could take a second to view his build log and see what he has been running and his experience. I believe he has a *bit* of competition experience and success too (?)


The build log doesn't show anywhere near the speakers I have tried, but, I have had some little success in the past couple years.


----------



## Coppertone

cajunner said:


> will these be going head to head with the Dynaudio Esotar 650's?


Yes as well as my MicroPrecision mids...


----------



## truckguy

spyders03 said:


> Ignore all you want, but I don't have an omnimic setup (or a Klippel setup) to take distortion measurements, and I have already posted up the bare RTA graph that was takin in my vehicle with no EQ, from the drivers headrest, you are free to view it in the reviews section http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/171317-stereo-integrity-tm65-objective-subjective-results.html. One point that you do have, is I did not clarify very well. They are the most detailed "6.5" driver I have heard in the midbass region. And yes, in the same vehicle, I have had Peerless, SB Acoustics, Infinity, Hertz, Silver Flutes, and a bunch of others that I can not recall at this time. I have heard many many more, as I not only compete, but also judge. I was also awared with "Judge of the Year" last year for MECA, so I have heard a vehicle or two, along with winning my class at world finals last year (as well as a couple state championships, national points champion, and many other accolades). I have even written an article for PASMag on how power from amplifiers are used during actual musical listening instead of just bench tests. I don't think I am the end all be all of ears, or reviews, but I do think I am plenty qualified to make a subjective post on a pair of drivers. If you don't want to trust some guy on the internet, that's fine with me, just know that I'm not some dude that heard from his friend that knows a guy that read something on the internet on a forum once. I apologize if any of this sounded harsh, but I'm just trying to help out the community on a product that not many people have got the chance to hear yet.
> 
> 
> 
> The build log doesn't show anywhere near the speakers I have tried, but, I have had some little success in the past couple years.


Great post! lol. And I've never dealt with Nick but I appreciate anything he puts on here. He doesn't have to post anything. I'm sure everybody has bad days. We're human. What's the saying about casting the first stone... I'm not throwing one cuz I can be a total ass at times!


----------



## cajunner

I knew it!

I knew these were going to be something special... I had a suspicion when Electrodynamic first floated the idea and was going to take it shallow but this is beyond any reasonable expectation and bordering on extraordinary...


freakin' shallows that punch like a deep draw, maybe even better with good Klippel work and a little luck with the one offset revision, I have two minds about this because I of course, dicked around while the pre-sale was running and was acutely aware of the possibility that I'd regret flirting around with Nick, and here I am...


HERE I AM...

but luckily I can step into the picture at a relatively small uptick in the buy-in to this new game, high end mid basses that can do their turn in the 2-way, high stakes gamble I was afraid to commit XBL venture monies towards, figuring on Mpyre-type results with a lower center of gravity but no...

99 problems but shallow ain't one!


----------



## Bayboy

spyders03 said:


> Ignore all you want, but I don't have an omnimic setup (or a Klippel setup) to take distortion measurements, and I have already posted up the bare RTA graph that was takin in my vehicle with no EQ, from the drivers headrest, you are free to view it in the reviews section http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/171317-stereo-integrity-tm65-objective-subjective-results.html. One point that you do have, is I did not clarify very well. They are the most detailed "6.5" driver I have heard in the midbass region. And yes, in the same vehicle, I have had Peerless, SB Acoustics, Infinity, Hertz, Silver Flutes, and a bunch of others that I can not recall at this time. I have heard many many more, as I not only compete, but also judge. I was also awared with "Judge of the Year" last year for MECA, so I have heard a vehicle or two, along with winning my class at world finals last year (as well as a couple state championships, national points champion, and many other accolades). I have even written an article for PASMag on how power from amplifiers are used during actual musical listening instead of just bench tests. I don't think I am the end all be all of ears, or reviews, but I do think I am plenty qualified to make a subjective post on a pair of drivers. If you don't want to trust some guy on the internet, that's fine with me, just know that I'm not some dude that heard from his friend that knows a guy that read something on the internet on a forum once. I apologize if any of this sounded harsh, but I'm just trying to help out the community on a product that not many people have got the chance to hear yet.
> 
> 
> 
> The build log doesn't show anywhere near the speakers I have tried, but, I have had some little success in the past couple years.


:rimshot:


----------



## Coppertone

So Cajunner, is it safe to say that you are jumping into the " gene pool " with us lol ?


----------



## jriggs

truckguy said:


> Great post! lol. And I've never dealt with Nick but I appreciate anything he puts on here. He doesn't have to post anything. I'm sure everybody has bad days. We're human. What's the saying about casting the first stone... I'm not throwing one cuz I can be a total ass at times!


Sure we all have our off days, but we are talking about running a business and engaging with current and/or potential clients/customers. Customer service is extremely important in my book (I do not subscribe to the adage that the "customer is always right" because they are not), but customers and potential customers need to be treated with respect and a high level of service before, during and after a sale.

So, what has been suggested is that if an owner of a company can't maintain a high level of customer service and professionalism AT ALL TIMES, then he should hire someone who can.


----------



## cajunner

Coppertone said:


> So Cajunner, is it safe to say that you are jumping into the " gene pool " with us lol ?


I might get a pair one day, I am glad that these are meeting with approval from some good testing pool participants, I like unconventional, quirky products, hence my infatuation with Aurasound. I see no reason to be critical of a product based on some frictional views by eccentric engineer types that find themselves troubled by keyboard bravado...

looking forward to more of the old ultra-violence, lol...


----------



## Alrojoca

I know this is off topic, I just thought about bringing some issues I noticed some guys complaining, I'm glad it's a great product and all, I hope you enjoy it.

I read that the issue may be not only needing production help to build more units, but maybe funds to be able to buy the parts to build them, based on the pre order sale method.

Having good history with good products, wouldn't be easier for a manufacturer to simply sell wholesale to a distributor in large quantities? The distributor can deal with all the headaches of distribution shipping, scammers etc, all the issues that manufacturers don't want to deal with, and end users could have the product available within days at a fixed price, no pressures, no prepaid orders, or extra fees collecting signatures etc, and everybody wins this way.

The distributor could fund, prepay or finance a large order, if not in full at least part to cover the initial cost of each speaker. Rather than using the end users money to finance future orders or inventory and make them wait until it's necessary to get the product. I know the margins will be less dealing with a partner distributor but with the volume and the time saved by just a few single shipments of huge orders, and not dealing with all the paperwork, extra shipping costs, signatures with hundreds of individual orders etc dealing directly with each end user or buyer, things could be easier and manufacturers can just concentrate in manufacturing, and warranties, rather than shipping $200 orders all over the map. Maybe the costs can be reduced also once the volume increases, and everyone wins having a distributor.

Not sure if this idea has been considered. Classic example of the shark tank, you can have an idea a product, and if you can't keep up making it or selling it or failing to deliver it the growth is limited to what just a few people can handle and the stress increases also dealing directly with the users.

Also working with sundown under the same roof, processing shipping, man, a licensing agreement, royalty fees, and checks simply could come in the mail without having to do any labor or hard work . I learned this watching the shark tank, LOL.


----------



## cajunner

Alrojoca said:


> I know this is off topic, I just thought about bringing some issues I noticed some guys complaining, I'm glad it's a great product and all, I hope you enjoy it.
> 
> I read that the issue may be not only needing production help to build more units, but maybe funds to be able to buy the parts to build them, based on the pre order sale method.
> 
> Having good history with good products, wouldn't be easier for a manufacturer to simply sell wholesale to a distributor in large quantities? The distributor can deal with all the headaches of distribution shipping, scammers etc, all the issues that manufacturers don't want to deal with, and end users could have the product available within days at a fixed price, no pressures, no prepaid orders, or extra fees collecting signatures etc, and everybody wins this way.
> 
> The distributor could fund, prepay or finance a large order, if not in full at least part to cover the initial cost of each speaker. Rather than using the end users money to finance future orders or inventory and make them wait until it's necessary to get the product. I know the margins will be less dealing with a partner distributor but with the volume and the time saved by just a few single shipments of huge orders, and not dealing with all the paperwork, extra shipping costs, signatures with hundreds of individual orders etc dealing directly with each end user or buyer, things could be easier and manufacturers can just concentrate in manufacturing, and warranties, rather than shipping $200 orders all over the map. Maybe the costs can be reduced also once the volume increases, and everyone wins having a distributor.
> 
> Not sure if this idea has been considered. Classic example of the shark tank, you can have an idea a product, and if you can't keep up making it or selling it or failing to deliver it the growth is limited to what just a few people can handle and the stress increases also dealing directly with the users.
> 
> Also working with sundown under the same roof, processing shipping, man, a licensing agreement, royalty fees, and checks simply could come in the mail without having to do any labor or hard work . I learned this watching the shark tank, LOL.


there have been several attempts to do the speaker business the way you describe, but you have to have demand for a product nobody has seen or heard, and you have to be able to absorb the possibility of large quantities of drivers sitting in a warehouse for years...


look at Funkin Audio, for instance.



or even Aurasound, they had great products and engineers and build houses, but the main obstacle was management stealing the profits right out of the accounts, I think they are still fighting in courts...

just think of how many times you've seen "buy-outs!" at Parts Express, and consider that every time a speaker run fails to sell out, somebody was taking a loss in that profit chain.


----------



## gregerst22

spyders03 said:


> Ignore all you want, but I don't have an omnimic setup (or a Klippel setup) to take distortion measurements, and I have already posted up the bare RTA graph that was takin in my vehicle with no EQ, from the drivers headrest, you are free to view it in the reviews section http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/171317-stereo-integrity-tm65-objective-subjective-results.html. One point that you do have, is I did not clarify very well. They are the most detailed "6.5" driver I have heard in the midbass region. And yes, in the same vehicle, I have had Peerless, SB Acoustics, Infinity, Hertz, Silver Flutes, and a bunch of others that I can not recall at this time. I have heard many many more, as I not only compete, but also judge. I was also awared with "Judge of the Year" last year for MECA, so I have heard a vehicle or two, along with winning my class at world finals last year (as well as a couple state championships, national points champion, and many other accolades). I have even written an article for PASMag on how power from amplifiers are used during actual musical listening instead of just bench tests. I don't think I am the end all be all of ears, or reviews, but I do think I am plenty qualified to make a subjective post on a pair of drivers. If you don't want to trust some guy on the internet, that's fine with me, just know that I'm not some dude that heard from his friend that knows a guy that read something on the internet on a forum once. I apologize if any of this sounded harsh, but I'm just trying to help out the community on a product that not many people have got the chance to hear yet.
> 
> 
> 
> The build log doesn't show anywhere near the speakers I have tried, but, I have had some little success in the past couple years.


Thanks for the clarification! That adds a more weight and merit to your earlier post which I was taking at face value in that did not offer much in the way of details and not having read your build log or other threads didn't know your background.
I've recommended these drivers to other people based solely on the specs and kippel tests alone. It's good to know that they can perform.


----------



## 1fishman

spyders03 said:


> Ignore all you want, but I don't have an omnimic setup (or a Klippel setup) to take distortion measurements, and I have already posted up the bare RTA graph that was takin in my vehicle with no EQ, from the drivers headrest, you are free to view it in the reviews section http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/171317-stereo-integrity-tm65-objective-subjective-results.html. One point that you do have, is I did not clarify very well. They are the most detailed "6.5" driver I have heard in the midbass region. And yes, in the same vehicle, I have had Peerless, SB Acoustics, Infinity, Hertz, Silver Flutes, and a bunch of others that I can not recall at this time. I have heard many many more, as I not only compete, but also judge. I was also awared with "Judge of the Year" last year for MECA, so I have heard a vehicle or two, along with winning my class at world finals last year (as well as a couple state championships, national points champion, and many other accolades). *I have even written an article for PASMag on how power from amplifiers are used during actual musical listening instead of just bench tests.* I don't think I am the end all be all of ears, or reviews, but I do think I am plenty qualified to make a subjective post on a pair of drivers. If you don't want to trust some guy on the internet, that's fine with me, just know that I'm not some dude that heard from his friend that knows a guy that read something on the internet on a forum once. I apologize if any of this sounded harsh, but I'm just trying to help out the community on a product that not many people have got the chance to hear yet.
> 
> 
> 
> The build log doesn't show anywhere near the speakers I have tried, but, I have had some little success in the past couple years.


Would love to have a link, or the name of that article. (searched but i could not find it.)

Thanks for your review and good to know your background also.


----------



## Beckerson1

Sent email to SI (sales) about pre-order transfer to another member in my place.


----------



## WhiteL02

spyders03 said:


> Ignore all you want, but I don't have an omnimic setup (or a Klippel setup) to take distortion measurements, and I have already posted up the bare RTA graph that was takin in my vehicle with no EQ, from the drivers headrest, you are free to view it in the reviews section http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/171317-stereo-integrity-tm65-objective-subjective-results.html. One point that you do have, is I did not clarify very well. They are the most detailed "6.5" driver I have heard in the midbass region. And yes, in the same vehicle, I have had Peerless, SB Acoustics, Infinity, Hertz, Silver Flutes, and a bunch of others that I can not recall at this time. I have heard many many more, as I not only compete, but also judge. I was also awared with "Judge of the Year" last year for MECA, so I have heard a vehicle or two, along with winning my class at world finals last year (as well as a couple state championships, national points champion, and many other accolades). I have even written an article for PASMag on how power from amplifiers are used during actual musical listening instead of just bench tests. I don't think I am the end all be all of ears, or reviews, but I do think I am plenty qualified to make a subjective post on a pair of drivers. If you don't want to trust some guy on the internet, that's fine with me, just know that I'm not some dude that heard from his friend that knows a guy that read something on the internet on a forum once. I apologize if any of this sounded harsh, but I'm just trying to help out the community on a product that not many people have got the chance to hear yet.
> 
> 
> 
> The build log doesn't show anywhere near the speakers I have tried, but, I have had some little success in the past couple years.


This makes me even more excited to get mine! What tweeter did you run with the si in 2 way set up?


----------



## spyders03

Seas neo prestige fabric dome, what was installed at the time


----------



## Alrojoca

cajunner said:


> there have been several attempts to do the speaker business the way you describe, but you have to have demand for a product nobody has seen or heard, and you have to be able to absorb the possibility of large quantities of drivers sitting in a warehouse for years...
> 
> 
> look at Funkin Audio, for instance.
> 
> 
> 
> or even Aurasound, they had great products and engineers and build houses, but the main obstacle was management stealing the profits right out of the accounts, I think they are still fighting in courts...
> 
> just think of how many times you've seen "buy-outs!" at Parts Express, and consider that every time a speaker run fails to sell out, somebody was taking a loss in that profit chain.



I understand! other companies like ED design come to mind, very poor management wrong choices and decisions, the thing is that maybe not all their lines were home runs, one thing the Sharks say is that the #1 mistake small companies make, is trying to expand by making new products, new lines and designs, instead of just focusing on the winners, that kills many companies not being able to move inventory, many sharks, don't invest in companies having more than 5 skew numbers unless the companies have big sales.

The way I see it, having a dealer, the owner will not be having to deal with emails for orders, or take a 3% hit on PP or CC, extra shipping costs. And taking real heat from some customers. Selling to a dealer, a nice big check is received and no fees, less work, or maybe a small check to start funding the order like I mentioned earlier, if that works. Banks can loan money too, money is cheap these days. Anyway, I hope things get better, and maybe now that the nice weather is coming with the long days, orders will not be delayed, and good money is made going forward.


----------



## lv_v

Offering this driver in an 8" shallow design would be epic


----------



## Electrodynamic

legend94 said:


> Well one little bash, he will probably read a few this and leave the thread.....for a week hiatus!


Nope. Sorry.


----------



## seafish

Electrodynamic said:


> Nope. Sorry.


…..LOL!!!!!


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Is there anyone on here who wants to sell their speakers before delivery. Swap out your place in line, due to the wait. Is this something that can be done?

IF someone does not want to wait, PM me. 

Thanks


----------



## iroller

Still looking


----------



## legend94

Electrodynamic said:


> Nope. Sorry.


I don't want you to go away, ever. My intent on my posts was to help your company. If you are happy with where it is now then nothing needs to change but if you want it to grow then something should.

Your products have never been the question for me and I plan on using one of your subs in my upcoming install. I should also mention I have been a fan of your subs going back many years.


----------



## jriggs

legend94 said:


> I don't want you to go away, ever. My intent on my posts was to help your company. If you are happy with where it is now then nothing needs to change but if you want it to grow then something should.
> 
> Your products have never been the question for me and I plan on using one of your subs in my upcoming install. I should also mention I have been a fan of your subs going back many years.


+1, thanks.


----------



## Alrojoca

legend94 said:


> I don't want you to go away, ever. My intent on my posts was to help your company. If you are happy with where it is now then nothing needs to change but if you want it to grow then something should.
> 
> Your products have never been the question for me and I plan on using one of your subs in my upcoming install. I should also mention I have been a fan of your subs going back many years.


Maybe you think like this guy 

http://youtu.be/rXKwXQrBf9U


----------



## legend94

Alrojoca said:


> Maybe you think like this guy
> 
> http://youtu.be/rXKwXQrBf9U


Stereo integrity is good at creating products. My change suggestion was mainly on the customer service.


----------



## Alrojoca

legend94 said:


> Stereo integrity is good at creating products. My change suggestion was mainly on the customer service.


I know, if you listen to it again, Marcus mentioned the process also needs to change not the product in some cases.  
And you seemed to be unhappy with the process not the product


----------



## legend94

Alrojoca said:


> I know, if you listen to it again, Marcus mentioned the process also needs to change not the product in some cases.
> And you seemed to be unhappy with the process not the product


You sir, are correct. 

I have said what I wanted and I will shy away from this thread so it can get back on topic. 

I'm sure these will be great mids and wish si the best.


----------



## captainobvious

Pics for the masses...

These drivers are packaged very well, yet in the smallest profile packaging to do it well. Not surprised, as this is how Nick did the BM mkIV's as well. Looks minimalist from the outside (size-wise), but provides more than enough protection for the drivers. Very smart packaging as it keeps size down for shipping costs, yet keeps everything safe in transit- well done Nick.


Oh, yeah, pics....


----------



## LaserSVT

Sweet! Its the very last part to finish my system that i am waiting for. Seeing the test date has me exited that mine may finally get here.


----------



## crea_78

Thanks for the pics Steve!! They look very nice.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Those look awesome. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## WhiteL02

They look great. Pics on the site need to be updated to match new cones. I can not wait!!!


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

This is exciting. I have designed my system, and will be using these with the Helix Psix processor / amp. Highs will be taking care of with the L3se and low will be the Clarus C8. 

It will be a good one.


----------



## gckless

I'm all antsy in my pantsy for these right meow.


----------



## rxonmymind

"I'm not some dude that heard from his friend that knows a guy that read something on the internet on a forum once"

But, but, but.....Bwahaha!


----------



## capea4

gckless said:


> I'm all antsy in my pantsy for these right meow.


I'm sorry, did you say meow?


----------



## The real Subzero

capea4 said:


> I'm sorry, did you say meow?


Whats the meowther? MEOW MEOW>


----------



## capea4

i got a tracking email...i got a tracking email....nannannnnaahhh

lol


----------



## capea4

The real Subzero said:


> Whats the meowther? MEOW MEOW>


am i all nimbly bimbly


----------



## Coppertone

capea4 said:


> i got a tracking email...i got a tracking email....nannannnnaahhh
> 
> lol


May I inquire as to what month your order was placed ? Trying to gauge how long before the new owner will receive his.


----------



## The real Subzero

I hope I get my pair soon. I needs to finish my build.


----------



## capea4

Coppertone said:


> May I inquire as to what month your order was placed ? Trying to gauge how long before the new owner will receive his.


i ordered sept 21 2014, i emailed nick last night, on a Sunday no less and he replied shortly after. He asked for my order number, and after i responded with it, he emailed me this am to let me know that I was one of 3 sets being shipped today
it was a great transaction...hint hint


Not that it matters here, but i also emailed Bing, about some black hole tiles. he responded on a Sunday evening as well.

now if i could get marc to send those damn tweeters all would be sunny in my world


----------



## Coppertone

Lol, so what you're saying is Sunday seems to be the key with these gents ?


----------



## capea4

Coppertone said:


> Lol, so what you're saying is Sunday seems to be the key with these gents ?


it just goes to show how these guys really are dedicated to "us"
i figured id be on the Monday morning list if i sent them Sunday night. instead I was well taken care of


----------



## scottgi

Electrodynamic said:


> While gathering equipment for the build of my personal VW Jetta I was asked the same question by a few important [to me] people (Jason Bertholomey and Mark Worrell to name a few of those people) regarding the 6.5" woofer I would be using. The question was "why don't you make your own mid?" A few hundred hours of design work later I am nearing completion of the shallow 6.5" mid/woofer and figured I would share the information here on DIYMA as some of you could benefit from this woofer as it will actually fit in your doors unlike every other woofer with the same capabilities.
> 
> The 6.5" woofer we will be coming out with is 2.3" deep, uses a 6-layer CCAW coil, has 9 mm Xmax, is DVC 4 Ohm so you can wire it down to 2 Ohms to get more power in stereo out of your amplifiers, HF [high frequency] extension up to 2,500 Hz, uses an XBL^2 motor structure, and will be optimized for use in a vehicle door.
> 
> I have uploaded a few images of the first prototypes to our sever along with a very rough and initial frequency response without a dust cap. The response will change once a dust cap is applied, it's just the nature of the beast. It might smooth out the response or it might create a slight rise. We will know more once the latter is tested.
> 
> The images that you are about to be linked to are of a smaller OD motor and a much lower impedance [D1 Ohm]. I will share more pictures of the larger production motors and D4 coils once we get them in our hands and assemble the drivers. I will also post the same near-field response plots for the production drivers as were taken with these prototype units.
> 
> We are continually working out clearances with this design as it is very difficult to make a shallow:highXmax woofer work as projected. I will keep you all updated with any/all progress.
> 
> PS: These drivers will be assembled here in the USA. Projected pre-order price is $99 plus shipping with a final price of $150 per driver.
> 
> Early smaller motor prototype pictures and FR responses:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearfield FR of the prototype D1 driver with smaller motor:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a rotatable model of the motor that the driver will use:
> http://www.stereointegrity.com/images/TM65/6pt5NeoAssemblyD490mmOD_Cutaway.pdf


 It looks like I'll just wait for these beasts to hit the street before I buy anything else


----------



## Electrodynamic

captainobvious said:


> Pics for the masses...
> 
> These drivers are packaged very well, yet in the smallest profile packaging to do it well. Not surprised, as this is how Nick did the BM mkIV's as well. Looks minimalist from the outside (size-wise), but provides more than enough protection for the drivers. Very smart packaging as it keeps size down for shipping costs, yet keeps everything safe in transit- well done Nick.
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah, pics....


Wow, those are nice close-up pictures. What camera do you use?

And yeah I know I need to update the web page with the new cones and larger motors, etc. I simply haven't had any time to do much of anything with the web page because every second I'm at work I'm building drivers, responding to emails, etc. OEM work has picked up a lot over the past six months with the 24's as well so that adds to everything.


----------



## Salami

SO20thCentury said:


> Still working on installing them. They're massive as hell and the magnet's super strong. I think they'll fit in the door opening ok but holding them by hand in there to check alignment the magnet pulls it to the door metal.
> 
> 
> 
> The flange around the magnet has 1/4" clearance around it to the door metal. With a good solid backing ring it can be aligned but will it cause any problems for it to be operating so close to that metal?


Is that a 1996 Honda Civic hatchback in Midori Green Pearl?


----------



## captainobvious

Electrodynamic said:


> Wow, those are nice close-up pictures. What camera do you use?
> 
> And yeah I know I need to update the web page with the new cones and larger motors, etc. I simply haven't had any time to do much of anything with the web page because every second I'm at work I'm building drivers, responding to emails, etc. OEM work has picked up a lot over the past six months with the 24's as well so that adds to everything.


Thanks Nick.  I didn't do anything special with these, just some quick shots in manual mode. The camera I use is the Sony Alpha A6000 which is a mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses. About half the size and weight of the larger (and more expensive) Canon and Nikon DSLR's, yet produces images of comparable quality in almost every application.
A better photographer can do much nicer than me with it. But these were shot with the standard kit lens that comes with it. When I get home (server is blocking currently), I'll add a couple pics in here that I took with it that I was really surprised by the quality of. I'd HIGHLY recommend this camera.


----------



## bertholomey

I have the same camera Nick if you ever need pics taken.


----------



## captainobvious

I'm sure Jason has some even nicer photo examples to share than this as he's more experienced and a better photographer than I am. But here are a couple I took at night in Philly down at the waterfront. Some were on a ferry in motion and with heavy zoom, and being that it was dark, I had a lot of ISO engaged which would normally degrade the image quality heavily.

Keep in mind these are on Photobucket so the image quality isn't as nice as the originals, but you get the idea.














And a few from yesterday's Phillies home opener. This is with the 55-210 Sony kit zoom. Again, there are much better lenses to be had, but the camera still takes fantastic photo's.
















In summary, it's a very versatile and powerful camera, yet extremely compact as well. It's great for action shots, portraits, macro/close up, and even pretty good for night shots as well.




.


----------



## captainobvious

bertholomey said:


> I have the same camera Nick if you ever need pics taken.


Did you make the move from the Nex-6 to the A6000? I'm really digging mine. This thing is exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## bertholomey

captainobvious said:


> I'm sure Jason has some even nicer photo examples to share than this as he's more experienced and a better photographer than I am. But here are a couple I took at night in Philly down at the waterfront. Some were on a ferry in motion and with heavy zoom, and being that it was dark, I had a lot of ISO engaged which would normally degrade the image quality heavily.
> 
> Keep in mind these are on Photobucket so the image quality isn't as nice as the originals, but you get the idea.
> 
> In summary, it's a very versatile and powerful camera, yet extremely compact as well. It's great for action shots, portraits, macro/close up, and even pretty good for night shots as well.


Dang! These are awesome! Why aren't they in the photography thread????




captainobvious said:


> Did you make the move from the Nex-6 to the A6000? I'm really digging mine. This thing is exactly what I was looking for.


Yes sir - my Dad has my NEX and I got the A6000...in silver! I recently purchased the Sony/Zeiss 16mm-70mm lens, and I'm enjoying that immensely.


----------



## LumbermanSVO

Nick, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring to photograph your products as well. I live close enough(Richmond, VA) that I can drive over, get a room, make a day of it, then go home. I often have weeks off at a time from work and I have the gear.

An example, I made this photo(I'll add it to the photography thread soon) on the front passenger seat of a Freightliner. If I can do that in a Semi-truck, surely I can do it in a warehouse!


----------



## spyders03

Hey, I want in on the photography action! I used to do photography on the side, models, engagements, weddings, local events. I also have a nice camera and expensive glass  lol


----------



## LaserSVT




----------



## cajunner

if we infer...


someone who hasn't received their pair of speakers yet, might speed things along using the honey, and not the vinegar...

lol.


----------



## Electrodynamic

captainobvious said:


> Thanks Nick.  I didn't do anything special with these, just some quick shots in manual mode. The camera I use is the Sony Alpha A6000 which is a mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses. About half the size and weight of the larger (and more expensive) Canon and Nikon DSLR's, yet produces images of comparable quality in almost every application.
> A better photographer can do much nicer than me with it. But these were shot with the standard kit lens that comes with it. When I get home (server is blocking currently), I'll add a couple pics in here that I took with it that I was really surprised by the quality of. I'd HIGHLY recommend this camera.





bertholomey said:


> I have the same camera Nick if you ever need pics taken.


Thanks guys. I actually had the help of a member of a home audio forum point me in the right direction for a camera. Proper criteria and price. Hopefully it pans out in the end. 

...now get back OT and post about the performance of those TM65's.


----------



## Electrodynamic

LaserSVT said:


> I never get one until they say they couldn't deliver it. Then I have to wait another several days to get it from the FedEx office because fedEx sucks.
> 
> I HOPE this time Nick remembers to email me the tracking number when mine go out so I can reroute them to the local FedEx office and actually have them on the day they are supposed to be delivered.


I have actually discussed this at length with my FedEx rep. I hit "End Of Day" and also send an "Upload" which is an extra step. Apparently I need to have Sharon come by the shop again and have her sit in my office until we actually perform a successful End Of Day report. Bummer really. I was wondering why I still get people calling asking for tracking information after I've shipped their speakers.


----------



## LaserSVT

FedEx dont care here. This is a UPS town. LOL The UPS driver will call me if he has a package that needs to be signed for.
But I know the FedEx song and dance so I just change the drop off point once I have the tracking number. No biggie.


----------



## Coppertone

Not to be a pain but who is the latest person yo have received theirs ? I'm trying to track what months the orders have been placed to see how far down the chain I am.


----------



## LaserSVT

Its been decided you have changed too many components so your order was shipped to some underprivileged youth to help him get rid of his ice cream truck PA horn he uses as a "sound system".


----------



## cajunner

"NO SOUP FOR YOU!"


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

I just purchased a set from someone on the form. We are not sure where he was in line, but either way. These will make a great addition. Right now I plan on using the dual 4 ohm setup to get me 225 watts per driver. 

Patience is going to be key!


----------



## captainobvious

LaserSVT said:


>




I take full responsibility lol


:blush:


----------



## 1fishman

cajunner said:


> "NO SOUP FOR YOU!"


I'd say LOL, but i'm afraid i'd loose my place in line.


----------



## quality_sound

Coppertone said:


> Not to be a pain but who is the latest person yo have received theirs ? I'm trying to track what months the orders have been placed to see how far down the chain I am.


I haven't heard anything yet, but I can't say that doesn't mean they're not on their way, just that I haven't gotten them yet. I paid on 9 December.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Paid October 2nd; updated address December 12.
Still no notification, and no speakers. (Well, I did get the BM MKIV's I ordered at the same time.)
Waiting patiently.


----------



## The real Subzero

quality_sound said:


> I haven't heard anything yet, but I can't say that doesn't mean they're not on their way, just that I haven't gotten them yet. I paid on 9 December.





tjswarbrick said:


> Paid October 2nd; updated address December 12.
> Still no notification, and no speakers. (Well, I did get the BM MKIV's I ordered at the same time.)
> Waiting patiently.


I emailed nick and he said "Right now we still building and shipping the initial pre-orders from September/October. " So I ordered in January, so I have some time to wait.


----------



## quality_sound

The real Subzero said:


> I emailed nick and he said "Right now we still building and shipping the initial pre-orders from September/October. " So I ordered in January, so I have some time to wait.


Damn, I didn't realize there were that many preorders. Good thing I have substitutes on the way.


----------



## capea4

said somewhere, but to reiterate, i ordered sept 21 and mine shipped monday, and "On FedEx vehicle for delivery"


----------



## Coppertone

^^^ thanks for that heads up as I ordered mine in December so I know now where I stand.....


----------



## Bayboy

January for me. Will be much later but the fact that there's no other driver like this that I know of makes the wait worth it. I suppose if I competed and wanted to enter with them then I would fret a bit. I'm patient. Besides, still waiting on the tweets because I only want to do the install once.


----------



## Ted J

bertholomey said:


> Dang! These are awesome! Why aren't they in the photography thread????


Where can I find the photography thread? I looked around but wasn't able to find one but maybe I just missed it.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Ted J said:


> Where can I find the photography thread? I looked around but wasn't able to find one but maybe I just missed it.


Here's one:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/off-topic/175034-photography-thread-picture-week-paw.html

Sounds like there are others.


----------



## capea4

and they are here. the shipping was fast too.
people have bitched, but it was a great transaction for me.

thanks Nick, you defiantly earned a satisfied customer.


----------



## zero43

capea4 said:


> and they are here. the shipping was fast too.
> people have bitched, but it was a great transaction for me.
> 
> thanks Nick, you defiantly earned a satisfied customer.


Shipping was fast for me as well. 
Installed mine in the place of one cdt m6 At first to do a side by side comparison. Running a pg xenon 200.4. Mounted with the same spacers in a blazer. The bottom end with now crossover. I think it was the coil hitting on the bottom. And the M6 was distorted. Turned it down just a little and the Tm65 clearly and without a doubt did so much better. Set the stereo at 80z high pass (lowest setting). Got quite a bit more midrange, clearer, and wasn't distorting. Turned it up more than in the first test and got heavy distortion on the M6. 

I played around with these to drivers without my midranges as well. I know it can work in a two way setup. 

I had to modify the door panels to get the sound I wanted before. All I need for this one is maybe an 1/8 inch spacer. Honestly, I could use ccf weather stripping. 

I can't wait to put these in their intented home. Then get new door panels for my truck and get a second set. 

To you all that are impatient. People have lives outside of business. The weather was horrible. Truck drivers have to risk their life to deliver on time in adverse weather. 

In my opinion. People ought to stop thinking about only themselves. Be considerate of what other's are going through. Or at least try to find out in a nice way. 

If you don't like the wait for a good product. I'm sure there's a big box store or money hungry car audio shop near you. They like the added negativity.


----------



## Bayboy

No such thing as a side by side comparison by using different drivers installed at the same time. Does no justice.


----------



## bertholomey

tjswarbrick said:


> Here's one:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/off-topic/175034-photography-thread-picture-week-paw.html
> 
> Sounds like there are others.


That is the one I was referring to....just started recently.


----------



## quality_sound

zero43 said:


> Shipping was fast for me as well.
> Installed mine in the place of one cdt m6 At first to do a side by side comparison. Running a pg xenon 200.4. Mounted with the same spacers in a blazer. The bottom end with now crossover. I think it was the coil hitting on the bottom. And the M6 was distorted. Turned it down just a little and the Tm65 clearly and without a doubt did so much better. Set the stereo at 80z high pass (lowest setting). Got quite a bit more midrange, clearer, and wasn't distorting. Turned it up more than in the first test and got heavy distortion on the M6.
> 
> I played around with these to drivers without my midranges as well. I know it can work in a two way setup.
> 
> I had to modify the door panels to get the sound I wanted before. All I need for this one is maybe an 1/8 inch spacer. Honestly, I could use ccf weather stripping.
> 
> I can't wait to put these in their intented home. Then get new door panels for my truck and get a second set.
> 
> To you all that are impatient. People have lives outside of business. The weather was horrible. Truck drivers have to risk their life to deliver on time in adverse weather.
> 
> In my opinion. People ought to stop thinking about only themselves. Be considerate of what other's are going through. Or at least try to find out in a nice way.
> 
> If you don't like the wait for a good product. I'm sure there's a big box store or money hungry car audio shop near you. They like the added negativity.



There's a difference between impatient and curious. NO ONE has gotten pissy about anything. We're simply inquiring when we should expect them so we can work out some things in OUR lives. Just like Nick, we have lives as well. Jesus man, take a ****ing pill.


----------



## Ted J

tjswarbrick said:


> Here's one:
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/off-topic/175034-photography-thread-picture-week-paw.html
> 
> Sounds like there are others.


Thank you!


----------



## cksigmapi

Ordered mine January 22 so I suppose I'll be waiting a few more weeks. Not the end of the world considering I'm still waiting on my KXBLTWT's ordered in September...


----------



## Coppertone

quality_sound said:


> There's a difference between impatient and curious. NO ONE has gotten pissy about anything. We're simply inquiring when we should expect them so we can work out some things in OUR lives. Just like Nick, we have lives as well. Jesus man, take a ****ing pill.


Without the cursing part lol, I could NOT have said this any better. Why is it when you pay for something and inquire about the status you're considered impatient ? All we want just like in any other transaction is awareness .


----------



## lucillemay

Electrodynamic said:


> While gathering equipment for the build of my personal VW Jetta I was asked the same question by a few important [to me] people (Jason Bertholomey and Mark Worrell to name a few of those people) regarding the 6.5" woofer I would be using. The question was "why don't you make your own mid?" A few hundred hours of design work later I am nearing completion of the shallow 6.5" mid/woofer and figured I would share the information here on DIYMA as some of you could benefit from this woofer as it will actually fit in your doors unlike every other woofer with the same capabilities.
> 
> The 6.5" woofer we will be coming out with is 2.3" deep, uses a 6-layer CCAW coil, has 9 mm Xmax, is DVC 4 Ohm so you can wire it down to 2 Ohms to get more power in stereo out of your amplifiers, HF [high frequency] extension up to 2,500 Hz, uses an XBL^2 motor structure, and will be optimized for use in a vehicle door.
> 
> I have uploaded a few images of the first prototypes to our sever along with a very rough and initial frequency response without a dust cap. The response will change once a dust cap is applied, it's just the nature of the beast. It might smooth out the response or it might create a slight rise. We will know more once the latter is tested.
> 
> The images that you are about to be linked to are of a smaller OD motor and a much lower impedance [D1 Ohm]. I will share more pictures of the larger production motors and D4 coils once we get them in our hands and assemble the drivers. I will also post the same near-field response plots for the production drivers as were taken with these prototype units.
> 
> We are continually working out clearances with this design as it is very difficult to make a shallow:highXmax woofer work as projected. I will keep you all updated with any/all progress.
> 
> PS: These drivers will be assembled here in the USA. Projected pre-order price is $99 plus shipping with a final price of $150 per driver.
> 
> Early smaller motor prototype pictures and FR responses:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearfield FR of the prototype D1 driver with smaller motor:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a rotatable model of the motor that the driver will use:
> http://www.stereointegrity.com/images/TM65/6pt5NeoAssemblyD490mmOD_Cutaway.pdf


 looks like I'll just wait for these beasts to hit the street before I buy anything else


----------



## cajunner

Coppertone said:


> Without the cursing part lol, I could NOT have said this any better. Why is it when you pay for something and inquire about the status you're considered impatient ? All we want just like in any other transaction is awareness .


the problem is not the amount of people inquiring about wait times or shipping dates, in the attempt to find out where they stand in the order queue.

the problem is there has been no communication from the staff doing the shipping.

and a normal person expects that they should "stand in line" like the rest of the people, and nobody cuts, nobody gets favoritism, and nobody gets discriminated against.

if the orders for say, every driver ordered from the pre-sale up to October 1st, have been produced and shipped, wouldn't that be good to know?

and if at another high-water moment, like say, April 15, or tax day comes around, and they have all orders from October 1st to November 15 built and either shipped or in the boxes awaiting the UPS man...

but because the *BUZZ* factor about the products keeps internet free advertising and since BUMP's of the sales post for these speakers, aren't necessary, it may be on purpose...

I mean, if people just knew where they were in the delivery process, what good would that do?


----------



## Coppertone

How about we do this, for those who have ACTUALLY received their speakers, stay off this listing so those of us who are WAITING can lol.


----------



## capea4

ohh man


----------



## Coppertone

Again my posting is just in FUN folks to keep this light hearted so that no feelings are hurt in the process.


----------



## legend94

quality_sound said:


> There's a difference between impatient and curious. NO ONE has gotten pissy about anything. We're simply inquiring when we should expect them so we can work out some things in OUR lives. Just like Nick, we have lives as well. Jesus man, take a ****ing pill.


nick and i both got pissy but it got cleaned up 

in retrospect i was a bit over the top so i am glad it got cleaned

i wish si the best going forward


----------



## Coppertone

Oh please we are all grown men on here, we speak our minds and then we get over it. Unless someone physically assaults someone on here, it's only words. With that now being said, my word of the day is " TM65 " ......


----------



## Bayboy

All BS aside, I'm kind of keeping my reserve on matters since it will be a while for shipment for the month I ordered in. Plus I'd hate to set myself up thinking that they will be the best ever when it's possible they may go either way since depending on taste & install. Nothing to do with quality of parts, but I think we've all been down this road before... works for some, other not so much. Same goes for the tweets that are in wait.


----------



## Coppertone

Agreed as I waited for a set of speakers that were set to blow others out of the water. Those speakers were good, but they weren't what my system needed at the time. To be honest with the exception of the next tune, my system is done so no more pulling and swapping for this guy. It just means I'm selling what I currently have just to get my one room back in my house.


----------



## Bayboy

Same here.. I'm trying to finalize system components down to a set that is most utilitarian between different rides. I really hate switching drivers every time I change vehicles. I'd rather find that one combination that can suit several and 6.5", a low resonance tweet, and a decently sized sub that doesn't take up a lot of room or needs an extravagant enclosure seems to fit that bill. Time will tell. The main attribute is the gear's resale worth should it not be "the one". Don't need anymore gear stacking up in the closet. Time will tell


----------



## foreman

Fwiw, I ordered mine end of November and I had a surprise waiting for me today They look great and well made and I can't wait for next week to install them


----------



## Coppertone

^^^^. Thumbs up.


----------



## Bigjppop

Ordered mine in December, just received them yesterday. Just need to find a weekend to do my install.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Now I'm getting concerned. Guess I owe Nick an email.


----------



## Inferno333

Just checked. I ordered mine on December 16th. Looks like I'm getting close. Too bad I don't have the new vehicle to install them in yet.


----------



## Coppertone

Mine were also ordered in December and emails have already been sent to Nick.


----------



## jb4674

That's a really nice midbass driver you've created Electrodynamic!


----------



## Coppertone

Hopefully I'll have a FedEx tracking number to report really soon.


----------



## quality_sound

I got my tracking number today. They'll arrive Thursday. I was hoping they'd show up before I went TDY, but it's all good. More things to try once I get back home. I'm excited to try TWO new sets of midbasses.


----------



## foreman

Sweet. Where you going TDY?


----------



## Coppertone

quality_sound said:


> I got my tracking number today. They'll arrive Thursday. I was hoping they'd show up before I went TDY, but it's all good. More things to try once I get back home. I'm excited to try TWO new sets of midbasses.


What month were yours ordered in ?


----------



## quality_sound

foreman said:


> Sweet. Where you going TDY?



Lackland for NCOA. 



Coppertone said:


> What month were yours ordered in ?



9 December. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Coppertone

^^^. Thank you very much for sharing that with us.


----------



## gckless

quality_sound said:


> Lackland for NCOA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9 December.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If I had anything in my car right now I'd swing on over and see what you thought. But I'm waiting on amps, these mids, and subs.

Be prepared for Thursdays through Sundays. Just terrible. Also, driving around here in general. Absolutely terrible.


----------



## quality_sound

I still need amps, processor, and possibly a sub. Then time to install it all. 

I remember the weekends. I was here for aircrew fundies and that sucked too. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## quickaudi07

I haven't been on here to keep up with this thread, but it looks like most of you have gotten your speakers, which is great, some of you that are still waiting, well yea give it some time, and i'm sure Nick will get your your product that you paid for.

I had to cancel my order to do some personal issues and Nick did not have a problem canceling and giving me my money back. Support from him its top notch! Thank You Nick....

Well, what i wanted to say is this, at least you guys will get your items, speakers, I decided to pull a trigger and spend way much more than these drivers are and guess what??!?!?! I got screwed, no speakers and no money... 
Do not worry, Nick is a busy guy, Trust me you will get your items


----------



## fredridge

I am kind of interested to know where I was in the order lineup.... I know I placed my order right about when the system went live.... was I first, third, fifth???? inquiring minds want to know


----------



## Electrodynamic

fredridge said:


> I am kind of interested to know where I was in the order lineup.... I know I placed my order right about when the system went live.... was I first, third, fifth???? inquiring minds want to know


Please send me an email with your details to [email protected]. Much faster than posting on an internet forum.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Electrodynamic said:


> Please send me an email with your details to [email protected]. Much faster than posting on an internet forum.


Hi Nick,
_I_ did just that on Sunday the 12th, regarding order placed in October, and haven't heard back. Order # 289. Can you check your eMails and get back to me?
Thanks!
Just anxiously awaiting my awesome mid-basses.


----------



## Electrodynamic

tjswarbrick said:


> Hi Nick,
> _I_ did just that on Sunday the 12th, regarding order placed in October, and haven't heard back. Order # 289. Can you check your eMails and get back to me?
> Thanks!
> Just anxiously awaiting my awesome mid-basses.


I have checked my emails and I have responded to you.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Electrodynamic said:


> I have checked my emails and I have responded to you.


Got the eMail!
Thanks Nick.
Lookin' forward to rockin' the rockin' midbasses.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Out for Delivery!
So Excited!


----------



## LaserSVT

tjswarbrick said:


> Out for Delivery!
> So Excited!


----------



## Bminus

I got a tracking email!!!!!
Ordered mine December 15th...


----------



## Coppertone

I sadly had a tracking number but sadly it was not to be. Fortunately Nick is on it and I know it will soon be taken care of.


----------



## The real Subzero

whats your order number if you received them already?


----------



## tjswarbrick

The real Subzero said:


> whats your order number if you received them already?


Order # 289


----------



## LaserSVT

Coppertone said:


> I sadly had a tracking number but sadly it was not to be. Fortunately Nick is on it and I know it will soon be taken care of.


----------



## shillermanlite

Coppertone said:


> The tracking number was issued, but the speakers were never shipped. So Nick is following up on where those speakers are and he will ship them out ASAP to make it right.


I'm not sure how long it's been but I got my tracking number and the speakers didn't ship until 6 days later.


----------



## quality_sound

Mine were finally delivered today. I'm TDY and the FedEx driver came by TWICE during the duty day. It's a military installation...come by AFTER duty hours. Sheesh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The real Subzero

tjswarbrick said:


> Order # 289





The real Subzero said:


> whats your order number if you received them already?


dam, I have ####.


I guess I'm out another month or so.


----------



## quality_sound

The real Subzero said:


> whats your order number if you received them already?



What are you using for the order number? The invoice ID listed on the PayPal invoice receipt?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tjswarbrick

quality_sound said:


> What are you using for the order number? The invoice ID listed on the PayPal invoice receipt?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When I placed my order, Stereo Integrity sent me a receipt which detailed the items ordered and shipping address. It had an order number at the top.


----------



## cajunner

so, let's say there's enough metal ordered to do 500 pairs of drivers, that's a pretty nice sweaty wad of hundies, maybe this internet marketing on the ol' diyma board is worth a few ribald commentary from the fringe...


----------



## The real Subzero

quality_sound said:


> What are you using for the order number? The invoice ID listed on the PayPal invoice receipt?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


paypal reciept looks like this at the bottom:

Invoice ID: SI-###

Then I got a email from SI that have is listed like this: 

Your order has been received and is now being processed. Your order details are shown below for your reference:
Order: ####


So the numbers are the same.


----------



## quality_sound

Ah, ok. Just wanted to make sure. Mine was 446.


----------



## ChrisB

quality_sound said:


> I still need amps, processor, and possibly a sub. Then time to install it all.
> 
> I remember the weekends. I was here for aircrew fundies and that sucked too.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've been having gear since November 2013. I need motivation to begin an install.


----------



## Inferno333

Mine shipped!


----------



## gckless

Mine shipped today. Order #573, paid 11Jan2015.


----------



## sunshinefc3s

I just received tracking info too. Order #558 placed on 1/7/15.


----------



## The real Subzero

sunshinefc3s said:


> I just received tracking info too. Order #558 placed on 1/7/15.





gckless said:


> Mine shipped today. Order #573, paid 11Jan2015.


woot!, mine should be coming shortly. 590


----------



## tjswarbrick

Electrodynamic said:


> I have checked my emails and I have responded to you.


Oops.

Thought I saw my package on the way - but forgot I ordered unrelated part for my car, which THEY sent FedEx Ground, Sig Required.
Still need my SI TM65 tracking info.
When you get the chance, Nick, please check eMails and respond to me again.
Thanks a ton.


----------



## Electrodynamic

tjswarbrick said:


> Oops.
> 
> Thought I saw my package on the way - but forgot I ordered unrelated part for my car, which THEY sent FedEx Ground, Sig Required.
> Still need my SI TM65 tracking info.
> When you get the chance, Nick, please check eMails and respond to me again.
> Thanks a ton.


I'm pretty sure I got you and someone else mixed up as I had two customers asking for their tracking info at the same time with similar circumstances. I think your email uses your screen name but can you shoot me a quick email so I can look you up using your email address? I'll find the history then. 

PS: We are finally getting somewhat close to fulfilling all of the pre-orders. We've made a pretty good dent in pre-ordered TM65's these past few weeks and the stck of remaining orders is pretty small - maybe 20 more orders or so.


----------



## GoMax

Awesome news. I'm order #648, so fingers crossed!!


----------



## Bayboy

Set was just delivered right on time. Luckily I'm working nights this week and Fedex just so happened to deliver right before it's time to get ready for work. I must say, the drivers appear pretty "normal" from the front... a treated cone & rubber surround. It's when you compare it to what you've been using do you realize just how much different. Shallower, yet still has more heft than one would think. The motor structure seems to defy how most think neo mags would feel in hand. Will be interesting to see just how they sound once a install is decided upon. 

Thanks Nick!


----------



## Coppertone

Mine shows they are still riding shotgun with the FedEx driver. I have a meeting in an hour so I'm hopeful they will arrive before I depart. If not I know that I'll be coming home tonight to that infamous tag on the window.


----------



## sirbOOm

Well, mine haven't arrived yet because I haven't ordered them yet. : ) ~


----------



## Alrojoca

sirbOOm said:


> Well, mine haven't arrived yet because I haven't ordered them yet. : ) ~


Ha ha, I have not ordered mine either. Maybe after the dust is settled and I get some funds from other things laying around.


----------



## tjswarbrick

tjswarbrick said:


> Oops.
> 
> Thought I saw my package on the way - but forgot I ordered unrelated part for my car, which THEY sent FedEx Ground, Sig Required.
> Still need my SI TM65 tracking info.
> When you get the chance, Nick, please check eMails and respond to me again.
> Thanks a ton.





Electrodynamic said:


> I'm pretty sure I got you and someone else mixed up as I had two customers asking for their tracking info at the same time with similar circumstances. I think your email uses your screen name but can you shoot me a quick email so I can look you up using your email address? I'll find the history then.
> 
> PS: We are finally getting somewhat close to fulfilling all of the pre-orders. We've made a pretty good dent in pre-ordered TM65's these past few weeks and the stck of remaining orders is pretty small - maybe 20 more orders or so.


Just got my Tracking Number!
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!


----------



## LaserSVT

Here are some pics and a mini review.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...review-stereo-integrity-tm65.html#post2335154


----------



## rton20s

sirbOOm said:


> Well, mine haven't arrived yet because I haven't ordered them yet. : ) ~





Alrojoca said:


> Ha ha, I have not ordered mine either. Maybe after the dust is settled and I get some funds from other things laying around.


About the time you guys are ready to order, stock will run out and Nick will be posting renderings of his design model for the TM65 MkII with no delivery target date.


----------



## Bayboy

rton20s said:


> About the time you guys are ready to order, stock will run out and Nick will be posting renderings of his design model for the TM65 MkII with no delivery target date.


I heard xmax will be increased to 12mm with a xmech of 15mm.


----------



## rton20s

Bayboy said:


> I heard xmax will be increased to 12mm with a xmech of 15mm.


You too? I also heard something about an Fs in the 20s and playing flat out to 6 kHz.


----------



## Wy2quiet

Could you give a timetable as to when someone who ordered now would realistically be receiving speakers please? My anarchy's will not fit my doors without heavy modification and I do not want to rip them apart.


----------



## LaserSVT

rton20s said:


> You too? I also heard something about an Fs in the 20s and playing flat out to 6 kHz.


----------



## fiveoh

Does anyone care to share what they are planning to use in addition to these drivers? As in a two or three way set up and what tweeters and or mids?


----------



## rton20s

LaserSVT said:


>


----------



## LaserSVT

fiveoh said:


> Does anyone care to share what they are planning to use in addition to these drivers? As in a two or three way set up and what tweeters and or mids?


Dayton AMT tweeters and SI BM MKIV subs.


----------



## gckless

Two way, Vifa NE25VTS tweeters. Subs TBD, but leaning towards Dayton HOs. Mids ran off a Ground Zero 4200XII bridged at 8 ohms.


----------



## Bayboy

Waiting on the xbl^2 tweets, but am keeping open to various small widebanders I have stored up for a super low resonance "tweeter" option. The sub of course is BM MKIV, but also have a pair of Dayton HO or Peerless XXLS on hand. Both sets of 10" are fairly low distortion drivers I've been pleased with in the past.


----------



## foreman

I'm using mine in a 3way, crossed from 80 to 800hz and so far i like the midrange best so far. Actually raised my soundstage a bit with nothing done but the swap, replacing AP Arian's. Waiting for break in to see how the midbass compares.


----------



## bertholomey

foreman said:


> I'm using mine in a 3way, crossed from 80 to 800hz and so far i like the midrange best so far. Actually raised my soundstage a bit with nothing done but the swap, replacing AP Arian's. Waiting for break in to see how the midbass compares.



Cool to hear......I really enjoyed the Arians when I ran them.


----------



## quality_sound

fiveoh said:


> Does anyone care to share what they are planning to use in addition to these drivers? As in a two or three way set up and what tweeters and or mids?


Stevens horns and either my BNIB C15-d or some BMs.


----------



## 1fishman

foreman said:


> I'm using mine in a 3way, crossed from 80 to 800hz and so far i like the midrange best so far. Actually raised my soundstage a bit with nothing done but the swap, replacing AP Arian's. Waiting for break in to see how the midbass compares.


I can't imagine a better midrange than the Arain's can't wait to get my ears on these.


----------



## tjswarbrick

fiveoh said:


> Does anyone care to share what they are planning to use in addition to these drivers? As in a two or three way set up and what tweeters and or mids?


3-way front.
SI BM MKIV,
SI TM65,
Still deciding on midrange - depends upon the car and placement,
KAXBLTWT.


----------



## foreman

Quality, I loved the Arians too, especially up high, but so far as a dedicated Midbass the si mids do better in that smaller spectrum I'm running them.


----------



## Wy2quiet

Has anyone installed them yet? Would this comfortably be the second best mid-bass behind the anarchy at 6.5?

P.S if anyone for any reason cant use theirs I will be more than happy to take them off your hands!  I am going to order as long as they aren't like a 6 month wait as I got a new car and have no mids right now.


----------



## The real Subzero

Electrodynamic said:


> I'm pretty sure I got you and someone else mixed up as I had two customers asking for their tracking info at the same time with similar circumstances. I think your email uses your screen name but can you shoot me a quick email so I can look you up using your email address? I'll find the history then.
> 
> PS: We are finally getting somewhat close to fulfilling all of the pre-orders. We've made a pretty good dent in pre-ordered TM65's these past few weeks and the stck of remaining orders is pretty small - maybe 20 more orders or so.


Sent ya an email Nick.


----------



## subwoofery

Wy2quiet said:


> Has anyone installed them yet? Would this comfortably be the second best mid-bass behind the anarchy at 6.5?
> 
> P.S if anyone for any reason cant use theirs I will be more than happy to take them off your hands!  I am going to order as long as they aren't like a 6 month wait as I got a new car and have no mids right now.


Why second best? 

Kelvin


----------



## cajunner

subwoofery said:


> Why second best?
> 
> Kelvin


going off established specs, is it too close to call?

looks like they spec the Anarchy at 12 mm, Xmax.


that's a full 3 mm of linear throw more than the TM65's published spec of 9 mm, so...


----------



## subwoofery

cajunner said:


> going off established specs, is it too close to call?
> 
> looks like they spec the Anarchy at 12 mm, Xmax.
> 
> 
> that's a full 3 mm of linear throw more than the TM65's published spec of 9 mm, so...


Sure wish we could get the TM65 klippeled somehow. Seem to remember in VC mag that tested the Anarchy with less than 9mm linear. 

Distortion figures comparo between those two would be good enough for most of us. 

Having the TM65 ability to choose between 2 or 8 ohm is priceless 

Kelvin


----------



## cajunner

subwoofery said:


> Sure wish we could get the TM65 klippeled somehow. Seem to remember in VC mag that tested the Anarchy with less than 9mm linear.
> 
> Distortion figures comparo between those two would be good enough for most of us.
> 
> Having the TM65 ability to choose between 2 or 8 ohm is priceless
> 
> Kelvin


being able to slide a speaker into a stock opening without hitting the window track, and keeping up with the monster motor Anarchy is also priceless...

I was hoping to be convinced that they moved the 6.5" option into the 8" realm of mid bass but I'm just not there.

I remember when the advertising for the Mpyre 65M came out, they said "it puts out the same amount of bass as many 10" woofers, based on volume displacement" and thought that was awesome but I don't believe it to be true, so I still reserve a bit of skepticism.


then again, maybe the mark these were designed to hit, is not so high and these have been impressive in the first reviews so far.


----------



## gckless

subwoofery said:


> Sure wish we could get the TM65 klippeled somehow. Seem to remember in VC mag that *tested the Anarchy with less than 9mm linear. *
> Distortion figures comparo between those two would be good enough for most of us.
> 
> Having the TM65 ability to choose between 2 or 8 ohm is priceless
> 
> Kelvin


This.

I currently have the 8ohm Anarchy's in a two way. I'm not the most critical listener, but I will be doing the swap.


----------



## captainobvious

tjswarbrick said:


> 3-way front.
> SI BM MKIV,
> SI TM65,
> Still deciding on midrange - depends upon the car and placement,
> KAXBLTWT.



Might want to have a look at these:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...canspeak-discovery-10f/8414g-10-4-full-range/

and

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...anspeak-discovery-10f/4424g-4-midrange-4-ohm/



I'm working on an install with the "fullrange" version as a mid and this tweeter:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...luminator-d3004/6020-00-tweeter-textile-dome/


Along with the TM65, it would be a close match sensitivity wise and all 3 should provide excellent, low distortion performance.


----------



## captainobvious

cajunner said:


> *being able to slide a speaker into a stock opening without hitting the window track, and keeping up with the monster motor Anarchy is also priceless...*
> 
> I was hoping to be convinced that they moved the 6.5" option into the 8" realm of mid bass but I'm just not there.
> 
> I remember when the advertising for the Mpyre 65M came out, they said "it puts out the same amount of bass as many 10" woofers, based on volume displacement" and thought that was awesome but I don't believe it to be true, so I still reserve a bit of skepticism.
> 
> 
> then again, maybe the mark these were designed to hit, is not so high and these have been impressive in the first reviews so far.



Bingo. This driver can fit almost all applications as a drop in whereas the Anarchy is quite large and is a real problem for most applications, requiring heavy modification. Plus, really you only need so much xmax for a midrange/midbass application if you have a quality sub. The low distortion performance is what sets most of Nicks drivers apart.


----------



## LaserSVT

cajunner said:


> being able to slide a speaker into a stock opening without hitting the window track, and keeping up with the monster motor Anarchy is also priceless...


That was one of my biggest reasons for trying them. I liked my ML1600s plenty but needed a 3/4" spacer to clear the window track and window motor. It pushed the driver so far out that the door panel didn't sit 100% snug (touched the edge of the spacer) and every 10th closing would make a couple of the panel clips pop out.
TMs seemed to have cured that problem.


----------



## cajunner

LaserSVT said:


> That was one of my biggest reasons for trying them. I liked my ML1600s plenty but needed a 3/4" spacer to clear the window track and window motor. It pushed the driver so far out that the door panel didn't sit 100% snug (touched the edge of the spacer) and every 10th closing would make a couple of the panel clips pop out.
> TMs seemed to have cured that problem.


I feel your pain..

so the 95 to 98 silverado has 2.5" clearance from the OEM steel, both front and rear mounting locations.

these with a decent tweeter in the stock location, and going further, using an EOS waveguide that was roughly the size of the OEM grills, would do the trick?


----------



## tjswarbrick

captainobvious said:


> Might want to have a look at these:
> 
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...canspeak-discovery-10f/8414g-10-4-full-range/
> 
> and
> 
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...anspeak-discovery-10f/4424g-4-midrange-4-ohm/
> 
> 
> 
> I'm working on an install with the "fullrange" version as a mid and this tweeter:
> 
> https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...luminator-d3004/6020-00-tweeter-textile-dome/
> 
> 
> Along with the TM65, it would be a close match sensitivity wise and all 3 should provide excellent, low distortion performance.


Thank you, Captain.
The 10F has been high on the list - and is my most likely choice if I go pillar mount for the mids and kicks for the midbasses (unless I can fit my CSS VWR126x's in the pillar/sail/dash area.) However, the vehicle is likely to have an underseat midbass location, with 4" position in upper door. Which will lead me to a lower crossover frequency than the 10F is good for. Like 110-130Hz. Which has me considering HAT, Morel, or AudioFrog - though all are way more than I want to spend on mids. So that's the driving influence now - put the money into the midranges in order to use factory locations, or give it to the installer to totally rearrange my interior? I have the feeling option 2 will sound better, but I'm hoping the car will be my DD for a long time, and not a show car, so I may be happier keeping stock positions - as long as I can acheive the sound quality with processing and tune. So I'll discuss with installer when the time comes.

Sorry. Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.


----------



## bertholomey

subwoofery said:


> Sure wish we could get the TM65 klippeled somehow. Seem to remember in VC mag that tested the Anarchy with less than 9mm linear.
> 
> Distortion figures comparo between those two would be good enough for most of us.
> 
> Having the TM65 ability to choose between 2 or 8 ohm is priceless
> 
> Kelvin


They were Klippeled at Red Rock Acoustics last year


----------



## captainobvious

tjswarbrick said:


> Thank you, Captain.
> The 10F has been high on the list - and is my most likely choice if I go pillar mount for the mids and kicks for the midbasses (unless I can fit my CSS VWR126x's in the pillar/sail/dash area.) However, the vehicle is likely to have an underseat midbass location, with 4" position in upper door. Which will lead me to a lower crossover frequency than the 10F is good for. Like 110-130Hz. Which has me considering HAT, Morel, or AudioFrog - though all are way more than I want to spend on mids. So that's the driving influence now - put the money into the midranges in order to use factory locations, or give it to the installer to totally rearrange my interior? I have the feeling option 2 will sound better, but I'm hoping the car will be my DD for a long time, and not a show car, so I may be happier keeping stock positions - as long as I can acheive the sound quality with processing and tune. So I'll discuss with installer when the time comes.
> 
> Sorry. Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.


I would HIGHLY recommend the HAT L4 in that application. It's a fantastic midrange driver. I actually have a used pair in the closet if you're interested in trying them...
I would be using them if they could fit in the pillars


----------



## LaserSVT

cajunner said:


> I feel your pain..
> 
> so the 95 to 98 silverado has 2.5" clearance from the OEM steel, both front and rear mounting locations.
> 
> these with a decent tweeter in the stock location, and going further, using an EOS waveguide that was roughly the size of the OEM grills, would do the trick?


The problem with a waveguide is to get it to sit in the OEM tweeter locations would have them firing up at a 45* angle. I think the sound stage would suffer quite a bit. If the Daytons were not so thin there is no way I could have mounted them as vertically as I did.


----------



## tjswarbrick

captainobvious said:


> I would HIGHLY recommend the HAT L4 in that application. It's a fantastic midrange driver. I actually have a used pair in the closet if you're interested in trying them...
> I would be using them if they could fit in the pillars


Initial investigation (asking 3 people who have tried it) indicates that of the L4's, only the L4SE Carbon will fit the desired location. But I don't have the car yet to check for sure.


----------



## cksigmapi

Got my FedEx notice yesterday and it says they're already in Ohio! Woot! hoping for an on-time delivery tomorrow!


----------



## Wy2quiet

I pulled the trigger and bought a pair. Going to try to do the entire system and have it ready for when they arrive. Think they will play to 70hz with some authority?


----------



## subwoofery

bertholomey said:


> They were Klippeled at Red Rock Acoustics last year


True, do remember it now that you said it lol 

Apparently it is BL limited @ 7.4mm. Wondering if the few changes Nick made to his design since the tested prototype managed to push the linear Xmax up. 

Therefore, I demand another Klippel test  

Kelvin


----------



## cajunner

subwoofery said:


> True, do remember it now that you said it lol
> 
> Apparently it is BL limited @ 7.4mm. Wondering if the few changes Nick made to his design since the tested prototype managed to push the linear Xmax up.
> 
> Therefore, I demand another Klippel test
> 
> Kelvin


performance testing should reveal whether or not the changes to the prototype yielded the shift in BL as hoped.

if a new test using the same technique/set up, was to be done with distortion and impulse response, maybe waterfall, I believe the changes to the geometry should be present in measurements.

whether or not the improvement is audible, is of course, up for debate, haha..


but a new Klippel would certainly help push the masses into purchase if the results ended up like those others using XBL technology and with high tolerance build, quality control...

from what Nick has said, I'd have to infer these are a little sloppy in comparison to perhaps the Extremis, since he said Dan Wiggins spec'ed a narrow gap for his designs.

all speculation, of course.

I hope the people making these beauties are able to replicate the modeling, since it's been said as many as 5 different people are actually doing the work...

:surprised:


----------



## SO20thCentury

Wy2quiet said:


> I pulled the trigger and bought a pair. Going to try to do the entire system and have it ready for when they arrive.


HAH! That's what I said in September! And dammit I've had my TMs for 3 weeks now and hope to get them installed today. The whole car's interior was out and a lot of stuff was done to near perfection, though.








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[/URL][/IMG]

Ain't no Anarchys gonna fit there with the stock grill on.

Reno Auto sound has my amps building a rack anyway.

Got KAXBL tweets on order but Cajunner & others convinced me Aura whispers might be worth a try, meantime, so I got a pair to play with. And one payday when a couple DEX P99s came up in the classifieds the inevitable came to be so with some tuning tutoring I'm hoping for the best....


----------



## SO20thCentury

Salami said:


> Is that a 1996 Honda Civic hatchback in Midori Green Pearl?


Why, yes, it is! Are you a 6th gen hatchaholic too?


----------



## quality_sound

cajunner said:


> performance testing should reveal whether or not the changes to the prototype yielded the shift in BL as hoped.
> 
> if a new test using the same technique/set up, was to be done with distortion and impulse response, maybe waterfall, I believe the changes to the geometry should be present in measurements.
> 
> whether or not the improvement is audible, is of course, up for debate, haha..
> 
> 
> but a new Klippel would certainly help push the masses into purchase if the results ended up like those others using XBL technology and with high tolerance build, quality control...
> 
> from what Nick has said, I'd have to infer these are a little sloppy in comparison to perhaps the Extremis, since he said Dan Wiggins spec'ed a narrow gap for his designs.
> 
> all speculation, of course.
> 
> I hope the people making these beauties are able to replicate the modeling, since it's been said as many as 5 different people are actually doing the work...
> 
> :surprised:


You might be the most negative person I've ever seen. Do you EVER have anything positive to contribute to a conversation? Jesus H. Christ...





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

quality_sound said:


> You might be the most negative person I've ever seen. Do you EVER have anything positive to contribute to a conversation? Jesus H. Christ...


----------



## gckless

Immediately notice how well these are packaged. They have some good heft to them, heavier than they look and you would think with them being neo. With my brief comparison to the Anarchy's, they have a smaller mounting diameter so may not work in a hot-swap situation, but actually have more cone area (Sd). 



Jeez I'm excited to put these in. More/better pictures will come later.


----------



## The real Subzero

gckless said:


> Immediately notice how well these are packaged. They have some good heft to them, heavier than they look and you would think with them being neo. With my brief comparison to the Anarchy's, they have a smaller mounting diameter so may not work in a hot-swap situation, but actually have more cone area (Sd).
> 
> 
> 
> Jeez I'm excited to put these in. More/better pictures will come later.


I wish I haz mines already.
590 still waiting.


----------



## quality_sound

I wish I was at home to look at mine. They showed up a few days after I left for 6 weeks.


----------



## Salami

SO20thCentury said:


> Why, yes, it is! Are you a 6th gen hatchaholic too?



Yes!!

I had the same 96 hatch for 15 years until it was wrecked in an accident. Did a lot of stuff to that car over the years, it became part of the family.


----------



## gckless

First, some photos:







Stereo Integrity TM65 by Gilbert Kless, on Flickr


I put mine in today, and my initial impression was one of slight disappointment. There was a hollow sound and I found myself reaching for EQ. Vocals sounded a bit odd. Quick RTA showed 500Hz was down, but I'm not totally sure at this point it's solely the drivers themselves. Might be the way they're playing with the truck. I also noticed that they don't seem as efficient as the Anarchy's I took out, seems like they both handle more and require more power to get loud. Seemed like the snap of a snare drum was more in your face though, I did like that.

Regardless, I only have about 45 minutes on them, so I will definitely give them some time. Both of the symptoms I've described will almost definitely subside after break in. I also only have them on like 30W or so, temp amp right now until my Ground Zero amps get here. I'm excited to see what they hold in store. I will be revisiting the Anarchy's in another month or two, and do a true side-by-side with both broken in well.

Here's another review where the initial symptoms were also seen, and disappeared after some listening: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...average-joe-review-stereo-integrity-tm65.html


----------



## WhiteL02

Pics look great!


----------



## nanoodhaliwal

Just placed the order. Now the wait begins...


----------



## Electrodynamic

Yes these drivers require some break-in period. Each driver is sent through a rigorous, but short, buzz and rub test before they are shipped. Pleas allow at least four hours of play time for the drivers to fully break in.

PS: Great photography!


----------



## Electrodynamic

cajunner said:


> performance testing should reveal whether or not the changes to the prototype yielded the shift in BL as hoped.
> 
> if a new test using the same technique/set up, was to be done with distortion and impulse response, maybe waterfall, I believe the changes to the geometry should be present in measurements.
> 
> whether or not the improvement is audible, is of course, up for debate, haha..
> 
> 
> but a new Klippel would certainly help push the masses into purchase if the results ended up like those others using XBL technology and with high tolerance build, quality control...
> 
> from what Nick has said, I'd have to infer these are a little sloppy in comparison to perhaps the Extremis, since he said Dan Wiggins spec'ed a narrow gap for his designs.
> 
> all speculation, of course.
> 
> I hope the people making these beauties are able to replicate the modeling, since it's been said as many as 5 different people are actually doing the work...
> 
> :surprised:


You are speculating again, not stating facts. 

Yes Dan used a tighter gap. He also didn't use a six layer voice coil so the gap was inherently highter because there were less layers of voice coil. The distance from the OD of the voice coil winding to the top plate does not dictate the impulse response of the speaker. Far from it actually.


----------



## The real Subzero

Electrodynamic said:


> Yes these drivers require some break-in period. Each driver is sent through a rigorous, but short, buzz and rub test before they are shipped. Pleas allow at least four hours of play time for the drivers to fully break in.
> 
> PS: Great photography!


mines ready yet?


----------



## cajunner

Electrodynamic said:


> You are speculating again, not stating facts.
> 
> Yes Dan used a tighter gap. He also didn't use a six layer voice coil so the gap was inherently highter because there were less layers of voice coil. The distance from the OD of the voice coil winding to the top plate does not dictate the impulse response of the speaker. Far from it actually.


now, hopefully, you see how this works?

you are the expert, I am the nobody who likes finding out new things as part of a give and take, and everyone on the world wide, gets a peek and you get that free exposure.

so, if I am getting this right, a tighter gap means a closer coil OD to top plate. If this is true, then the inference is that the coil to top plate distance is not fixed and can be widened out, but because there is no mention of the coil to pole piece distance, this is usually a fixed value?

and is this difference caused by the top plate acting like a shelf where the coil's winding can "nick" against the corners of the top plate when rocked, while the coil's former can slide against the pole piece without much damage, so that gap can be sized tighter, with more uniformity? Essentially it's safer to add gap width to the top plate side because that's where the vulnerable copper parts are?

and if that is true, the XBL design creates 4 ledges instead of 2, unless you are able to produce a shorting ring that ends flush with the inside corners of the XBL gapping geometry, which would allow the top plate to act like a long underhung version where the angles to the winding edges, is less acute.

if none of this is different from a regular speaker's overhung coil, or has no bearing on how tight the gap must be, would it be true then, to say that the gap from an XBL driver is less specific, or contains less flux concentration but the relative placement of the winding is crucial?

and why is it that even big companies have trouble getting a near-perfect Klippel, when their production facilities should allow an ever closer margin of error if they are using high tolerance glue dispensers, and stuff?

is it easier to just do the work of building an XBL driver all by hand?

thanks again for your responses!


----------



## 1fishman

Checking on mine, 521. Sent an email last week. Thanks


----------



## Electrodynamic

cajunner said:


> I hope the people making these beauties are able to replicate the modeling, since it's been said as many as 5 different people are actually doing the work...
> 
> :surprised:


You should not take what people say as fact when it has not been verified by the manufacturer. There are only three people building TM65's and there is over 20 years of speaker building experience between them. They know what they are doing and I have personally sat down with each one of them for many hours to show them how to build the drivers. 

...or maybe I grabbed five bums off the street, threw Elmers glue at them and hoped they assembled them correctly.


----------



## subwoofery

Electrodynamic said:


> You should not take what people say as fact when it has not been verified by the manufacturer. There are only three people building TM65's and there is over 20 years of speaker building experience between them. They know what they are doing and I have personally sat down with each one of them for many hours to show them how to build the drivers.
> 
> ...or maybe I grabbed five bums off the street, threw Elmers glue at them and hoped they assembled them correctly.


You should include signature on them with their name showing who built the drivers - similar to what Mercedes is doing with their AMG engine  

Some of those subs would have higher value when they go for sale with your name on it 

Kelvin


----------



## Electrodynamic

subwoofery said:


> You should include signature on them with their name showing who built the drivers - similar to what Mercedes is doing with their AMG engine
> 
> Some of those subs would have higher value when they go for sale with your name on it
> 
> Kelvin


I include a signed note with each pair of TM65's indicating who built them. 

Apparently gosip shows differently.


----------



## captainobvious

gckless said:


> First, some photos:
> Stereo Integrity TM65 by Gilbert Kless, on Flickr
> 
> 
> I put mine in today, and my initial impression was one of slight disappointment. There was a hollow sound and I found myself reaching for EQ. Vocals sounded a bit odd. Quick RTA showed 500Hz was down, but I'm not totally sure at this point it's solely the drivers themselves. Might be the way they're playing with the truck. I also noticed that they don't seem as efficient as the Anarchy's I took out, seems like they both handle more and require more power to get loud. Seemed like the snap of a snare drum was more in your face though, I did like that.
> 
> Regardless, I only have about 45 minutes on them, so I will definitely give them some time. Both of the symptoms I've described will almost definitely subside after break in. I also only have them on like 30W or so, temp amp right now until my Ground Zero amps get here. I'm excited to see what they hold in store. I will be revisiting the Anarchy's in another month or two, and do a true side-by-side with both broken in well.
> 
> Here's another review where the initial symptoms were also seen, and disappeared after some listening: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...average-joe-review-stereo-integrity-tm65.html




First, excellent photo's. 

It has been my experience that every time a driver swap is made, you really need to revisit the tuning of the system to integrate it properly. Different speakers have different rolls offs, resonant frequency, sensitivity, frequency response, qts, etc. You'll need to retune your crossovers and time alignment for proper phase, and adjust your EQ for the response dips and peaks of the new driver vs the old as well as adjust gain as needed for any difference in sensitivity. Once the driver breaks in and you then do that, you'll have a much better idea of where the system as a whole is at with the TM65 vs the Anarchy


----------



## cajunner

Electrodynamic said:


> You should not take what people say as fact when it has not been verified by the manufacturer. There are only three people building TM65's and there is over 20 years of speaker building experience between them. They know what they are doing and I have personally sat down with each one of them for many hours to show them how to build the drivers.
> 
> ...or maybe I grabbed five bums off the street, threw Elmers glue at them and hoped they assembled them correctly.


well, you did say this:



Electrodynamic said:


> I don't have all the necessary tools at my house to build speakers. That, and having hot soldering irons and toxic fumes [without a mask] around an active two and a half year old is never a good idea.
> 
> While the sample parts/speakers take their sweet time to arrive at the possible future assembly plant we are still working on churning out as many TM65's as possible. I have reached out to* three other local trusted speaker builders for their help in building the TM65's* as well. All of their comments are the same - they all reply with "these things are SO labor intensive!" But hopefully in a few weeks I will have an answer/price on assembly from the assembly plant. Even if their price means zero profit on the pre-ordered speakers* I am going to give them the go-ahead*. It helps that they are XBL^2 licensed and also recommended by Dan Wiggins.



and I believe somewhere else you stated you had one other person in-house with you building these drivers.

so if you add up the three locals, the one guy you sit down at the bench with, and yourself...


----------



## tjswarbrick

Delivery Notification! Woot-Woot!
Now, I just need a car. And some tweeters...


----------



## Electrodynamic

subwoofery said:


> You should include signature on them with their name showing who built the drivers - similar to what Mercedes is doing with their AMG engine
> 
> Some of those subs would have higher value when they go for sale with your name on it
> 
> Kelvin


I include a piece of paper with every pair of TM65's with a hand-written "Built by ______" with every TM65 order so you know who built the drivers.


----------



## gckless

subwoofery said:


> You should include signature on them with their name showing who built the drivers - similar to what Mercedes is doing with their AMG engine
> 
> Some of those subs would have higher value when they go for sale with your name on it
> 
> Kelvin


As mentioned, like this?





captainobvious said:


> First, excellent photo's.
> 
> It has been my experience that every time a driver swap is made, you really need to revisit the tuning of the system to integrate it properly. Different speakers have different rolls offs, resonant frequency, sensitivity, frequency response, qts, etc. You'll need to retune your crossovers and time alignment for proper phase, and adjust your EQ for the response dips and peaks of the new driver vs the old as well as adjust gain as needed for any difference in sensitivity. Once the driver breaks in and you then do that, you'll have a much better idea of where the system as a whole is at with the TM65 vs the Anarchy


Thanks! 

And yep, totally on the same page as you. I'm just going to throw it some power, wait for break in, then retune. Really I'm totally changing my setup as soon as the new amps get here so it will be pretty much all brand new, and after that I'll revisit the Anarchys and know for sure. That's why I didn't really make any conclusions in my short review, just kinda gave my first impressions.



Electrodynamic said:


> Yes these drivers require some break-in period. Each driver is sent through a rigorous, but short, buzz and rub test before they are shipped. Pleas allow at least four hours of play time for the drivers to fully break in.
> 
> PS: Great photography!


Thanks! Sent you an email as requested also.


----------



## gckless

Also Nick, I noticed that the boxes say 150W RMS, but site and paper say 120W RMS. I'm assuming the boxes were printed before final testing/decisions were done?


----------



## Babs

Got a chance to fondle and molest a pair of these at the NC meet. Got me all fired up. Hehehe. Whata you guys think about these mated to RS75's or maybe 10F's and D3004's in a Tacoma door? I think there may be a shallow 8" out there that'd fit, but these might fit the bill super easily. Actually the 10F's would be pretty hard to do. Round it off with a vented HO 10" since no one oddly had interest in buying it. In cabin access cab truck fun I think.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## CDT FAN

I'm sure I missed it being posted, but, how much space do these things need behind them? I would like to build an enclosure for them in my doors.


----------



## SO20thCentury

AAAAAAAAAAUGH! THESE ARE FUKKINAWESOME!!!! The hammer of Thor is in my car, baby! Between these mids and the sub I feel like a beachball bouncing on a sea of low freq soundwaves! 
Running 2-way front with Peerless/Vifa OX20 tweets. BM MKIV up to 63HZ, TM65s 63- [email protected] 12db/oct & left kind of a hole; tweets HP [email protected] 12. Tried 3-way with Aura Whispers but they were too much in my face trebley. Set up playing Alice inChains' Dirt cuz the freqs at the top of Layne Staleys voice can be painful so I figure if them are good we golden.
I've been into mid 40's on volume out of 62 but Bayboy had cautioned about being careful running them at 2ohm on the MS-A 4 ohm amp. What should I watch out for?


----------



## subwoofery

Electrodynamic said:


> I include a piece of paper with every pair of TM65's with a hand-written "Built by ______" with every TM65 order so you know who built the drivers.


Wish I had money left for car audio... Actually saving for home audio. 

Doesn't mean I can't invest into some of your subwoofers, BM mkV maybe?  

Kelvin


----------



## tjswarbrick

gckless said:


> As mentioned, like this?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Totally missed that! Saw the tested date on the cardboard sleeve and thought the assembler didn't want to take responsibility.

Really looking forward to a "bouncing beachball of bass..."


----------



## hdrugs

i went through the website stereointegrity and it wont let me put through a purchase


----------



## Bayboy

SO20thCentury said:


> AAAAAAAAAAUGH! THESE ARE FUKKINAWESOME!!!! The hammer of Thor is in my car, baby! Between these mids and the sub I feel like a beachball bouncing on a sea of low freq soundwaves!
> Running 2-way front with Peerless/Vifa OX20 tweets. BM MKIV up to 63HZ, TM65s 63- [email protected] 12db/oct & left kind of a hole; tweets HP [email protected] 12. Tried 3-way with Aura Whispers but they were too much in my face trebley. Set up playing Alice inChains' Dirt cuz the freqs at the top of Layne Staleys voice can be painful so I figure if them are good we golden.
> I've been into mid 40's on volume out of 62 but Bayboy had cautioned about being careful running them at 2ohm on the MS-A 4 ohm amp. What should I watch out for?




The MS-A amps are purposely underrated like most JBL amps. You can find the testing results at Pasmag or Sonicelectronix. While JBL rates the same power for 2 ohm loads, testing proves otherwise showing near twice the power. Noticing you're using low xover points (63hz) which makes it easier to apply the power. I'd shoot for a higher point (around 100hz perhaps) for better protection.


----------



## LaserSVT

Now that I have some hard break in time on them I dropped the high pass to 63hz. Now my bezel around my outside door handle has cracked and rattles like crazy. LOL. Even with the sub off my side mirrors vibrate too much to use.


----------



## WhiteL02

LaserSVT said:


> Now that I have some hard break in time on them I dropped the high pass to 63hz. Now my bezel around my outside door handle has cracked and rattles like crazy. LOL. Even with the sub off my side mirrors vibrate too much to use.


That's what I like to hear! I have mine now just don't have them installed yet. They look great and I'm sure will sound even better.


----------



## Coppertone

LaserSVT said:


> Now that I have some hard break in time on them I dropped the high pass to 63hz. Now my bezel around my outside door handle has cracked and rattles like crazy. LOL. Even with the sub off my side mirrors vibrate too much to use.


Post a video lol, no really.


----------



## captainobvious

Babs said:


> Got a chance to fondle and molest a pair of these at the NC meet. Got me all fired up. Hehehe. Whata you guys think about these mated to RS75's or maybe 10F's and D3004's in a Tacoma door? I think there may be a shallow 8" out there that'd fit, but these might fit the bill super easily. Actually the 10F's would be pretty hard to do. Round it off with a vented HO 10" since no one oddly had interest in buying it. In cabin access cab truck fun I think.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That would make for a killer setup Scott. TM65, 10f and d3004....sweetness. RS75 would be a fine swap for the 10f, but is it a budget difference concern or the size? 10f is tiny


----------



## captainobvious

LaserSVT said:


> Now that I have some hard break in time on them I dropped the high pass to 63hz. Now my bezel around my outside door handle has cracked and rattles like crazy. LOL. Even with the sub off my side mirrors vibrate too much to use.


Time to revisit more deadening in the doors


----------



## Velozity

captainobvious said:


> Time to revisit more deadening in the doors




x2. I always find it odd how people get excited and think it's a good thing when panels and mirrors resonate due to the bass. Rattles drive me crazy plus it steals from the performance of the woofer.


----------



## rton20s

gckless said:


>


Uh oh.


----------



## tjswarbrick

rton20s said:


> Uh oh.


My thought exactly - and he built mine, too!


----------



## Alrojoca

If I need anything extra on my doors it would be, metal bracing to reduce flexing, 2 layers behind the driver, one layer close to 100% coverage, even some on the inner door around the speaker hole. 

I had door handle rattles/noise, and fixed it, not fun to fix, even using 12b slopes no rattles or issues, using 24db slopes may correct bass ghetto blaster handle rattles.


----------



## LaserSVT

Velozity said:


> x2. I always find it odd how people get excited and think it's a good thing when panels and mirrors resonate due to the bass. Rattles drive me crazy plus it steals from the performance of the woofer.


Never said it was a good thing or something I was happy about. Outer door skin has a 90% fat mat coverage. Inner door skin has a 90% coverage as well. Door card has another 50% coverage. I have the FAST rings foam behind the woofer and also gasketing the woofer as well as the outer ring that seals to the factory grill opening. 
The only rattle I have now is from the plastic bezel on the door handle breaking a couple days ago.


----------



## Babs

captainobvious said:


> That would make for a killer setup Scott. TM65, 10f and d3004....sweetness. RS75 would be a fine swap for the 10f, but is it a budget difference concern or the size? 10f is tiny



Yeah I'll know once I pull the card and see what I'm dealing with. If the 10F can do fit, it'll be the one I think given its stellar reviews. The grill on the card as a tad smallish though which is a concern also. Would certainly be stealthy except for the tweeters on pillars which I'm actually looking forward to seeing if lightning strikes twice with some fab work. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LaserSVT

Coppertone said:


> Post a video lol, no really.


Here ya go Ben. The subs are off and I am running the stereo at about what I do when driving around by myself.


----------



## rton20s

Easy fix. Shaved door handles.


----------



## Coppertone

LaserSVT said:


> Here ya go Ben. The subs are off and I am running the stereo at about what I do when driving around by myself.


Appreciated that Bill.


----------



## Electrodynamic

rton20s said:


> Easy fix. Shaved door handles.


Haha, there you go. Shaved door handles.


----------



## LaserSVT

I am just dreading cutting out all that mat just to get to the handle. LOL

All your fault Nick. Didnt have this problem before! You owe me new doors! *fuss*


----------



## Electrodynamic

gckless said:


> Also Nick, I noticed that the boxes say 150W RMS, but site and paper say 120W RMS. I'm assuming the boxes were printed before final testing/decisions were done?


Oops, I missed that. Honestly I've been slammed and splitting hairs on ten or thirty watts on power handling is not a concern with the six layer coil. You will run out of room from an excursion/suspension standpoint before the coil has any issues.


----------



## 1fishman

Deleted


----------



## Electrodynamic

If anyone pre-ordered TM65's and has not received their order please send me an email to nick at stereointegrity dot com. Per our records all pre-orders have been shipped and I don't want to miss an order that we may have not have seen. Thanks.


----------



## foreman

Just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying these Nick. The more I use them the more I like them. Lots of punch and they can get low. Thanks again for making these!


----------



## 1fishman

Electrodynamic said:


> If anyone pre-ordered TM65's and has not received their order please send me an email to nick at stereointegrity dot com. Per our records all pre-orders have been shipped and I don't want to miss an order that we may have not have seen. Thanks.


I've sent you a number of emails and left a phone messages also about order #521 placed January 2. Thanks


----------



## Electrodynamic

1fishman said:


> I've sent you a number of emails and left a phone messages also about order #521 placed January 2. Thanks


Quickly looking at emails through the beginning of this week I do not see an email that you have sent regarding order #521. As requested, can you please send me an email instead of posting on the forum? Thanks

*edit* I found your order and one older email from last month and have responded to your email.


----------



## nucci

What kind of wait time now for new orders?


----------



## Electrodynamic

nucci said:


> What kind of wait time now for new orders?


Between five and seven business days.


----------



## The real Subzero

finally got them installed. hope to tune and test tonight. FYI. the spade terminals are super weak compared to other speakers I have used like Focal, DLS, ect. One of them bent while I was putting the female spade on and broke loose. so now I have to tape the crap out of it so it dont flap around.


----------



## Electrodynamic

The real Subzero said:


> finally got them installed. hope to tune and test tonight. FYI. the spade terminals are super weak compared to other speakers I have used like Focal, DLS, ect. One of them bent while I was putting the female spade on and broke loose. so now I have to tape the crap out of it so it dont flap around.


I think most other customers have soldered on the connections. The terminals are small so you need to be careful and not force the female connectors on or heavily bend them during installation. Also if you broke one side of a terminal (positive or negative) I suggest soldering the connection back together instead of taping it.


----------



## legend94

I'm other words, the real subzero, it's your fault. Zero to do with design.


----------



## Electrodynamic

legend94 said:


> I'm other words, the real subzero, it's your fault. Zero to do with design.


Once again trolling I see.


----------



## The real Subzero

Electrodynamic said:


> I think most other customers have soldered on the connections. The terminals are small so you need to be careful and not force the female connectors on or heavily bend them during installation. Also if you broke one side of a terminal (positive or negative) I suggest soldering the connection back together instead of taping it.



normally I do solder, but not after I test and be sure its a permanent fixture. 

the metal isn't broke. its the paper tab. I am not blaming. 



legend94 said:


> I'm other words, the real subzero, it's your fault. Zero to do with design.


once again I am not blaming. I had no issues with the other speaker.


----------



## Electrodynamic

The real Subzero said:


> normally I do solder, but not after I test and be sure its a permanent fixture.
> 
> the metal isn't broke. its the paper tab. I am not blaming.
> 
> 
> 
> once again I am not blaming. I had no issues with the other speaker.


Thanks for clarifying. Yes the paper tab is susceptible to breaking if pushed on hard. That is an unfortunate side effect of using that tab but it was necessary to use to keep the shallow depth without tooling our own basket and raising cost of the speaker by $50 or more per piece.


----------



## SkizeR

just considering these now for the family car since i finally have an amp to use and these are released.. so how high will they play? looking to do a two way install and would absolutely love to use these.


----------



## legend94

Electrodynamic said:


> Once again trolling I see.


Pointing out a design flaw, I'm sure you can understand. Seriously, could those terminals not have been made much better? 

You make it too easy.

I'm sure if you cry foul my thoughts can be deleted.


----------



## Electrodynamic

legend94 said:


> Pointing out a design flaw, I'm sure you can understand. Seriously, could those terminals not have been made much better?
> 
> You make it too easy.
> 
> I'm sure if you cry foul my thoughts can be deleted.


It's not difficult to get a troll [you] moderated. 

I have listed the reasons for the design. You have assumed erroneous assumptions to make yourself feel better without any factual data = troll.


----------



## legend94

My hope is with a new site owner you will stop getting a free pass on your mistakes with customers. 

How many times have things been cleaned up for you to protect your reputation? It's only spotless in your mind and in your small NC group.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Just an observation. The op with the issue isn't complaining.

Anyone who doesn't own the speakers, and is complaining about the tabs, had better also be complaining about every other speaker that uses plastic, fiberglass, or paper tabs to mount the terminals. To my knowledge, some of the best performing and very expensive speakers use this terminal scheme, and each of them has likely had the same thing happen at some point, yet they don't redesign them. It's not a design flaw that breaks them, it's user error. For instance, I have a set of speakers that I bought before I knew better that cost 3 times as much as these, don't perform as well, and use spring loaded terminals mounted on fiberglass tabs that flex like crazy when you push the terminal all the way down. Easy way to fix it, stick your finger behind the tab and push down with your thumb.


----------



## captainobvious

legend94 said:


> Pointing out a design flaw, I'm sure you can understand. Seriously, could those terminals not have been made much better?
> 
> You make it too easy.
> 
> I'm sure if you cry foul my thoughts can be deleted.



Design flaw? :laugh: You have a long crusade ahead of you to set all of the other speaker manufacturers straight then as well because this is standard fare in the industry. This terminal style has been around forever and always requires a little more care when installing. That's on the installer. It's designed this way specifically to keep costs down, and in the case of this driver it's also done for mounting considerations. I'm not sure why you seem to have such a beef with this.


PS- I'm not in North Carolina.


----------



## legend94

Lol, you guys are hilarious. 

The terminal is fine on a normal speakers but if you notice the ones on this driver are nearly as wide as the cutout. 

It just seems like 140 per driver one could do better.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Again, I don't see the issue. And in that case, for the price, scanspeak should do better too, right?


----------



## captainobvious

I actually own these speakers. I can see/inspect and touch the terminals up close. There is nothing inferior about the terminal connection as compared to the industry standard. If a different mounting piece were to be added and spring terminals, it would have affected the mounting specifications and the pricing- just as Nick said.

Simply put- this is a non-issue.


----------



## Beckerson1

legend94 said:


> Lol, you guys are hilarious.
> 
> The terminal is fine on a normal speakers but if you notice the ones on this driver are nearly as wide as the cutout.
> 
> It just seems like 140 per driver one could do better.


Just give it up with what little dignity you have. 

Nothing you've said so far (nitpicking) is new within the industry as far as issues. Hell I'm sure no matter what price point you look at issue will still persist and I'm not talking just this speaker or company either.


----------



## Bayboy

:snacks:


----------



## sundownz

I didn't complain when I bought Morel MW-168 back in 2002 and they had spade terminals.

Same with my JL Audio ZR component set back in 2001 or so... or the DLS Iridium set I had in 2007 ($1200 component set).

COULD I have broken them if I pressed too hard ? Sure... but I didn't. I paid for a nice speaker so I was careful with it -- made the connection one time & never saw it again.


----------



## legend94

Beckerson1 said:


> Just give it up with what little dignity you have.
> 
> Nothing you've said so far (nitpicking) is new within the industry as far as issues. Hell I'm sure no matter what price point you look at issue will still persist and I'm not talking just this speaker or company either.


Dignity? Over speakers? Have you lost your mind?

Any great points I have made in this thread was deleted and I am not bringing them back up.





sundownz said:


> I didn't complain when I bought Morel MW-168 back in 2002 and they had spade terminals.
> 
> Same with my JL Audio ZR component set back in 2001 or so... or the DLS Iridium set I had in 2007 ($1200 component set).



The morel 168 was/is a great speaker but that was over a decade ago....

The jl, again almost a decade ago...


As for your company, I notice you are not using old technology on you mid-bass speakers:


----------



## legend94

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Again, I don't see the issue. And in that case, for the price, scanspeak should do better too, right?


The ones on their tweeters could use some work without question but I have not had any issue with their mids.



captainobvious said:


> I actually own these speakers. I can see/inspect and touch the terminals up close. There is nothing inferior about the terminal connection as compared to the industry standard. If a different mounting piece were to be added and spring terminals, it would have affected the mounting specifications and the pricing- just as Nick said.
> 
> Simply put- this is a non-issue.


I have seen these myself and it's an angle issue should someone not want to solder on the wire...


----------



## gckless

SkizeR said:


> just considering these now for the family car since i finally have an amp to use and these are released.. so how high will they play? looking to do a two way install and would absolutely love to use these.


I have them crossed at 2kHz right now, I'm not hearing issues. There's a pretty decent number of tweeters that will play that low. I haven't tried crossing them higher yet, but I plan to in the future.


----------



## cajunner

legend94 said:


> The ones on their tweeters could use some work without question but I have not had any issue with their mids.
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen these myself and it's an angle issue should someone not want to solder on the wire...


they make special angled female spade terminals.

they also make low-profile female spade terminals, even ones that are hardly 1/4" longer than the part that slides over the male terminal.

if it is important, (and it is, important) people should be made aware of the alternatives to soldering and having a speaker you can just shove in a hole with the wires connected, without worrying about breaking off a tab if you go into the hole a little off center or the magnet pulls the motor to the steel mounting surface, with force...

I don't believe these terminals are robust, but they are adequate if you know of the mounting peculiarity and the availability of terminals that will fit, and work. 


The standard female crimp connector appears to put too much stiffness in the area where contact may occur in installation.

So, is this a topic that needed to be addressed? I think so. I think that "trial by fire" is all a small volume builder can depend on, if their advanced minds cannot foresee a thing like crimp terminal spacing/angles in their design process.

and that's not being mean, or rude, or....


well, hahahaha...


----------



## gckless

Speaking of trolls, thanks for your always valuable input cajunner 

This isn't that big of an issue. Buy a different $.50 connector if you choose not to solder and move on.


----------



## cajunner

gckless said:


> Speaking of trolls, thanks for your always valuable input cajunner
> 
> This isn't that big of an issue. Buy a different $.50 connector if you choose not to solder and move on.


it's a big issue to anyone that breaks their speaker trying to install it with ordinary hardware.

my point is that if the design necessitated the use of a minimal tab, to accommodate both coils and conserve space, then at least supply the correct connectors so that people don't install the commonly available stuff and then push on the terminal bodies to bend the tabs, so the wires pass into the mounting holes.

this may not seem important and it may seem like common sense, but most speakers have only one coil and one side of the speaker has a big bulky wire terminal/wire thingy hanging off of it, and these will have less play to tilt the driver into the hole.

which is probably also something that an enthusiast should consider but a good manufacturer would add a note to the installation instruction booklet, addressing this peculiarity.

so, you think I'm a troll?


----------



## gckless

cajunner said:


> it's a big issue to anyone that breaks their speaker trying to install it with ordinary hardware.
> 
> my point is that if the design necessitated the use of a minimal tab, to accommodate both coils and conserve space, then at least supply the correct connectors so that people don't install the commonly available stuff and then push on the terminal bodies to bend the tabs, so the wires pass into the mounting holes.
> 
> this may not seem important and it may seem like common sense, but most speakers have only one coil and one side of the speaker has a big bulky wire terminal/wire thingy hanging off of it, and these will have less play to tilt the driver into the hole.
> 
> which is probably also something that an enthusiast should consider but a good manufacturer would add a note to the installation instruction booklet, addressing this peculiarity.
> 
> so, you think I'm a troll?


I do. Maybe troll isn't the word, but seems like every post you make is loaded to provoke some sort of negative response.

So you're telling me that it's Nick's fault that people break their speakers because of careless installation? Do you think manufacturers of heavy drivers should also tell you which mounting hardware to use? Because I don't believe they should, since there are so many options for doing so. Same thing here, there are many options. If a person is qualified enough to install this driver, they are qualified enough to select the proper connector for the install.


----------



## legend94

cajunner said:


> it's a big issue to anyone that breaks their speaker trying to install it with ordinary hardware.
> 
> my point is that if the design necessitated the use of a minimal tab, to accommodate both coils and conserve space, then at least supply the correct connectors so that people don't install the commonly available stuff and then push on the terminal bodies to bend the tabs, so the wires pass into the mounting holes.
> 
> this may not seem important and it may seem like common sense, but most speakers have only one coil and one side of the speaker has a big bulky wire terminal/wire thingy hanging off of it, and these will have less play to tilt the driver into the hole.
> 
> which is probably also something that an enthusiast should consider but a good manufacturer would add a note to the installation instruction booklet, addressing this peculiarity.
> 
> so, you think I'm a troll?


I think this is well said and thought out. 




Since when did having an opinion equal being a troll?


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

gckless said:


> I do. Maybe troll isn't the word, but seems like every post you make is loaded to provoke some sort of negative response.
> 
> So you're telling me that it's Nick's fault that people break their speakers because of careless installation? Do you think manufacturers of heavy drivers should also tell you which mounting hardware to use? Because I don't believe they should, since there are so many options for doing so. Same thing here, there are many options. If a person is qualified enough to install this driver, they are qualified enough to select the proper connector for the install.


I think this was better thought out.


While we're at it let's complain that nick didn't make the surrounds and cones bullet proof for the guy that will inevitably put a drill through them.


----------



## captainobvious

They work just fine with standard connectors. My picture shows that as well. There's plenty of space there.
If you can't be bothered to install the product properly with care or are frightened by the possibility of damaging your new product, then perhaps a professional should install it for you. Because if you're pressing down on the terminals hard enough to break them when installing them, then you're not doing it properly. That's what it boils down to. It's not a product issue.


----------



## Beckerson1

legend94 said:


> Dignity? Over speakers? Have you lost your mind?
> 
> Any great points I have made in this thread was deleted and I am not bringing them back up.


Isn't that reason your whining? Over speakers. 

Obviously what you had to say wasn't in any way beneficial to the thread or worth anybody's time as it seems everything you have to say is directed based on your personal vendetta with Nick. It's between you and Nick. We could care less about it. Work it out

Maybe next time you come across with a little more respect and Maybe, just maybe you will get a answer in a timely fashion. Simple


----------



## cajunner

okay, let's calm down now.

post a pic of the driver with regular ol' blue crimp 3M brand, spades on both coils using at least 16 gauge wire of the car audio variety.


you will see a bunch of stuff sticking out, where the cut-out hole will contact. You can't just tilt the driver and pass the wires under the door metal, then work the driver into the hole. 

because the other side has wires sticking out too.

so if you don't compress the wires some, on both sides even just a little, you won't be able to fit the speaker. This is the point of vulnerability.

The paper based, mounting tab is fine on all other drivers, because you only have the one side. 

I can see where someone will press the wires just a little too much and the paper folds on the tab, I can see where this will become an issue over time.

you can say it's no big deal and for you, the expert who knows everything it's not going to be a problem because you're super smart and all that.

and that's fine.


----------



## cajunner

gckless said:


> I do. Maybe troll isn't the word, but seems like every post you make is loaded to provoke some sort of negative response.
> 
> So you're telling me that it's Nick's fault that people break their speakers because of careless installation? Do you think manufacturers of heavy drivers should also tell you which mounting hardware to use? Because I don't believe they should, since there are so many options for doing so. Same thing here, there are many options. If a person is qualified enough to install this driver, they are qualified enough to select the proper connector for the install.


every post?

wow.

now, about this conditional response regarding Nick's "FAULT" where did I say Nick was at fault, at all?

I am just saying, he admitted to having to use these compromised connector tabs to be able to meet design goals, of which I am sure he means the shallow draft of the baskets. ( I assume, sometimes) And the proper connector that you will find in regular department/hardware/car parts shop/audio stores, is almost always a standard long crimp plastic body with either covered or uncovered female tab cover/detent.

these are going to stick out, no two-ways about it.


You can say, "select another .50 cent connector" but show your work!

post a pic of a connector that will fit the speaker, then.

if you want to back up what you and others are saying.


----------



## gckless

cajunner said:


> okay, let's calm down now.
> 
> post a pic of the driver with regular ol' blue crimp 3M brand, spades on both coils using at least 16 gauge wire of the car audio variety.
> 
> 
> you will see a bunch of stuff sticking out, where the cut-out hole will contact. You can't just tilt the driver and pass the wires under the door metal, then work the driver into the hole.
> 
> because the other side has wires sticking out too.
> 
> so if you don't compress the wires some, on both sides even just a little, you won't be able to fit the speaker. This is the point of vulnerability.
> 
> The paper based, mounting tab is fine on all other drivers, because you only have the one side.
> 
> I can see where someone will press the wires just a little too much and the paper folds on the tab, I can see where this will become an issue over time.
> 
> *you can say it's no big deal and for you, the expert who knows everything it's not going to be a problem because you're super smart and all that.*
> 
> and that's fine.


The bolded text is exactly what I'm talking about. Trolling. That sentence was completely unnecessary, but you chose to include it. I never claimed I'm an expert, far from it.

I see what you're saying. But, using my last example, that's like saying you used standard wood screws to mount a 100lb. driver vertically and it fell out and broke. It's not the manufacturers fault, it's yours. Use the proper installation accessories.

You're stuck on using those standard connectors for some reason, and is the basis of your argument. I don't know why.

And all this being said, I used pretty standard crimp connectors, didn't solder, and didn't have an issue getting them in.


----------



## cajunner

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I think this was better thought out.
> 
> 
> While we're at it let's complain that nick didn't make the surrounds and cones bullet proof for the guy that will inevitably put a drill through them.


does putting a drill through the surrounds, equate normal installation practices, then?

how many smaller woofers have you installed with dual voice coils?

I am accused of trolling but what about your post?


----------



## brumledb

I am definitely not an experienced installer and I was definitely planning on using a blue female for connecting these. I don't think I would've broken anything as I would have been being exceedingly careful. However, I am glad to know I should get a different connector.


----------



## legend94

Beckerson1 said:


> Isn't that reason your whining? Over speakers.
> 
> Obviously what you had to say wasn't in any way beneficial to the thread or worth anybody's time as it seems everything you have to say is directed based on your personal vendetta with Nick. It's between you and Nick. We could care less about it. Work it out
> 
> Maybe next time you come across with a little more respect and Maybe, just maybe you will get a answer in a timely fashion. Simple


Sure, if your definition of whining is me having an opinion. All I did was point out that the design is not stellar.

Answer what? I didn't ask a question


----------



## cajunner

gckless said:


> The bolded text is exactly what I'm talking about. Trolling. That sentence was completely unnecessary, but you chose to include it. I never claimed I'm an expert, far from it.
> 
> I see what you're saying. But, using my last example, that's like saying you used standard wood screws to mount a 100lb. driver vertically and it fell out and broke. It's not the manufacturers fault, it's yours. Use the proper installation accessories.
> 
> You're stuck on using those standard connectors for some reason, and is the basis of your argument. I don't know why.
> 
> And all this being said, I used pretty standard crimp connectors, didn't solder, and didn't have an issue getting them in.


I wasn't specifically addressing you with the statement but I did quote your post, so I apologize if you felt I was calling you an expert, on purpose...


and, your example is good except how often do you install 100lb. drivers?

I don't.

And if I did, and I used wood screws, it would probably be against the recommendation by the manufacturer. Because a 100lb. driver would have an installation sheet, stating what type of screw to use.


Eh, what I'd like to see is either inform people that the tabs can be broken if pushed on by gorilla hands, when trying to install them in a car's mounting location, or supply some low-profile terminals, or even better, wire with the terminals already crimped on, so that the issue doesn't arise.

if you got them in with standard connectors, show them wired up right before they go in the door?

the angle on the tabs looks, (and I don't have a speaker here to do it for you, someone who actually has one has to do it) as if it will make a wire stick out into the area surrounding the speaker.

if I misjudged, and it's not going to impede the installation at all, and nobody is likely to push on the wires to get them to squeeze into the hole, then say that.

that would be better, right?


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

cajunner said:


> does putting a drill through the surrounds, equate normal installation practices, then?
> 
> how many smaller woofers have you installed with dual voice coils?
> 
> I am accused of trolling but what about your post?


More than one person have said that even with standard size connectors, that there are no issues. That means if someone breaks it, it's user error. These types of connectors have been around forever. Breaking these connectors, is akin to drilling through the surround. Poor installation practices.


----------



## cajunner

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Just an observation. The op with the issue isn't complaining.
> 
> Anyone who doesn't own the speakers, and is complaining about the tabs, had better also be complaining about every other speaker that uses plastic, fiberglass, or paper tabs to mount the terminals. To my knowledge, some of the best performing and very expensive speakers use this terminal scheme, and each of them has likely had the same thing happen at some point, yet they don't redesign them. It's not a design flaw that breaks them, it's user error. For instance, I have a set of speakers that I bought before I knew better that cost 3 times as much as these, don't perform as well, and use spring loaded terminals mounted on fiberglass tabs that flex like crazy when you push the terminal all the way down. Easy way to fix it, stick your finger behind the tab and push down with your thumb.


for the record, I have complained about the cheap mounting tabs on some high end drivers before.

I'm not singling out Nick on this, at all. 

and again, in case it's been missed, the dual voice coil speaker requires more than twice the care in installation practices, because you have twice the number of connectors to affix, and you have less clearance for the wires as a result.

again, to me it is about information, this thread was designed to provide information and that's what I'm doing when I post 1500 words worth of explanatory thoughts.

information.


----------



## Picaro

Ahh, nothing like tag team trolling to really bring out the best/worst in this sort. And nothing quite like making various assumptions when they don't even own a pair. All this over one reported incident, just one, so yes, I would say the length and depth of their complaining easily broaches troll level, regardless of all else. These are the people who cause the government to force companies to place thousands of idiotic warnings on products. And how I love that they are the ones who always insist that others provide pics to disprove something that they can't even prove in the first place.


----------



## cajunner

Picaro said:


> Ahh, nothing like tag team trolling to really bring out the best/worst in this sort. And nothing quite like making various assumptions when they don't even own a pair. All this over one reported incident, just one, so yes, I would say the length and depth of their complaining easily broaches troll level, regardless of all else. These are the people who cause the government to force companies to place thousands of idiotic warnings on products. And how I love that they are the ones who always insist that others provide pics to disprove something that they can't even prove in the first place.


you can address me directly, I don't bite.

and about the idiotic warning labels, I used to be like you and felt like I was being inconvenienced by their inclusion, but I grew up.

I realize that there is a portion of the population that isn't easily taught, and anything that might prevent a bad outcome was warranted, depending on how much it encroached on other's well being.

This comes with age, perhaps. Some would say I've mellowed out, because I don't have to ride the ass of the driver in front of me until there is just empty road ahead.

I don't have to snicker when I see a person with lower IQ try to remember the sequence of buttons to messages, when checking out with SNAP benefit cards.

I don't have to assume everyone is able to understand, just because I'm the one who doesn't understand.


----------



## Picaro

cajunner said:


> and about the idiotic warning labels, *I used to be like you and felt like I was being inconvenienced by their inclusion, but I grew up.*
> 
> *I realize that there is a portion of the population that isn't easily taught, and anything that might prevent a bad outcome was warranted, depending on how much it encroached on other's well being.*
> 
> *This comes with age,* perhaps. Some would say I've mellowed out, because I don't have to ride the ass of the driver in front of me until there is just empty road ahead.


Simply using a form of passive-aggressiveness does not invalidate what I and others have stated.


----------



## subwoofery

Not taking sides but if Nick wanted to make it a much better and robust no-cost-objet driver, I'm sure he could. 

For the price of those, how many did he sell? 100? 200 pieces? Maybe more. 
Now just imagine if he were to sell it @ double the price - now what? People would not necessarily buy them coz they are right there with the best - @ $280 per, it's almost Scan Illum price... 

It would still be much cheaper than car audio brands out there but I'm not sure it'll sell well in the DIY community. 

Just a thought  

Kelvin


----------



## Picaro

On a somewhat separate note, I take my hat off to anyone who has the ability and the drive to produce an item such as these speakers. Yes, there have been a couple of hiccups along the way, but considering how small a group was producing them I think it is quite understandable. In the end I think everyone got their product, or at the very least soon will, and a damn good product at that, especially for the price. If someone wants complete perfection, design and build your own speakers, lol.

EDIT: Okay, apparently not a completely separate note, as in the time it took me to write the comment *subwoofery* had already partially covered it, lol.


----------



## Alrojoca

What's the mounting hole needed for these? just under 5.5"? I could not quite read it on the site, maybe it said 138mm

Thanks

I would avoid insulated crimped terminals, they take room and are not reliable. If these would be used, use non insulated gold ones crimped and solder or just solder, some of those terminals fit tight and it is better to test the female terminal with a another male terminal other than the one on the speakers, this will prevent damage to the one on the speaker trying to push it hard. It is common sense, if it does not feel right, don't push the limits. 

I would solder wire once it went in the terminal hole and put heat shrink on the whole terminal, then wire the coils and use/solder my favorite connector with extra wire. Dealing with 2 terminals on opposite sides and knowing not all factory speaker holes are perfectly round will present mounting and clearance issues, no doubt, some speakers may be harder to deal with than others, I see no big issues with these other than dealing with 2 terminals and if the hole is cut and the proper ring/spacer/baffle thickness is used, it should not be that much different than any other quality larger driver.


----------



## cajunner

Picaro said:


> Simply using a form of passive-aggressiveness does not invalidate what I and others have stated.


I challenge you to validate what you and others have said.

prove, beyond a personal predilection for elevating the word length in my exculpatory posting, that I am doing more than you when it comes to the passive-aggressive exercise.

look hard at yourself, before pondering if it's necessary to point at me.




"These are the people who cause the government to force companies to place thousands of idiotic warnings on products. And how I love that they are the ones who always insist that others provide pics to disprove something that they can't even prove in the first place."

something of a jump, considering how I've spelled out that a simple disclaimer on the paper that comes with the speakers, would suffice for preventing ham-fisted installers from saying "speakers are junk" because of a relatively weak terminal tab.


----------



## cajunner

subwoofery said:


> Not taking sides but if Nick wanted to make it a much better and robust no-cost-objet driver, I'm sure he could.
> 
> For the price of those, how many did he sell? 100? 200 pieces? Maybe more.
> Now just imagine if he were to sell it @ double the price - now what? People would not necessarily buy them coz they are right there with the best - @ $280 per, it's almost Scan Illum price...
> 
> It would still be much cheaper than car audio brands out there but I'm not sure it'll sell well in the DIY community.
> 
> Just a thought
> 
> Kelvin


he explained why it was necessary to use the thin, unsupported paper terminal tab option and didn't go fancy with the push button or a more secure, robust attachment scheme.

according to what I've read I believe it was because of the shallow mount design, and he probably couldn't use an off-the speaker builder's shelf, option that would have been less controversial.

isn't it fun discussing the terminals of a speaker I might have talked myself out of wanting, just because of the nuthugging requirements put on those who decided to give them a try?

I think it is!


----------



## Picaro

cajunner said:


> I challenge you to validate what you and others have said.
> 
> prove, beyond a personal predilection for elevating the word length in my exculpatory posting, that I am doing more than you when it comes to the passive-aggressive exercise.
> 
> look hard at yourself, before pondering if it's necessary to point at me.



Ha, ha, ha. Capital *P*, capital *A*. Capital *T*.


----------



## cajunner

Picaro said:


> Ha, ha, ha. Capital *P*, capital *A*. Capital *T*.


you have to imagine that a new forum member doesn't respond to people quite so casually and with <15 posts, is not a reputable charge.

so, someone is operating under an alias, and works to fend off any possibly unflattering commentary about Stereo Integrity speakers.

when passive-aggressive is broken down, where is catfishing in the scale?

:laugh:


----------



## Picaro

cajunner said:


> you have to imagine that a new forum member doesn't respond to people quite so casually and with <15 posts, is not a reputable charge.
> 
> so, someone is operating under an alias, and works to fend off any possibly unflattering commentary about Stereo Integrity speakers.
> 
> when passive-aggressive is broken down, where is catfishing in the scale?
> 
> :laugh:


Was wondering how long it would take you to try using the post count in your PA. Okay, okay, yes, I was the man on the grassy knoll. Satisfied? 

Oh, and by the way, I now return control of this thread to more proper posts. Sorry for the sidetracking folks.


----------



## lizardking

I think some in this thread need to put their keyboard down, put their pants back on, clean up the cheetos and head outside with the rest of the world.


----------



## legend94

cajunner said:


> isn't it fun discussing the terminals of a speaker I might have talked myself out of wanting, just because of the nuthugging requirements put on those who decided to give them a try?
> 
> I think it is!


It's been years since I have seen nuthugging like this. 

I don't think you should let it prohibit you from buying and enjoying them. If I was doing a 3 way system I would have some installed now.


----------



## cajunner

Picaro said:


> Was wondering how long it would take you to try using the post count in your PA. Okay, okay, yes, I was the man on the grassy knoll. Satisfied?
> 
> Oh, and by the way, I now return control of this thread to more proper posts. Sorry for the sidetracking folks.


certainly, an admission that you are not who your screen name suggests weakens your position, and without any response that backs up your accusations, further suggests you are a plant at best, and a pathetic attempt to play internet defender...



lizardking said:


> I think some in this thread need to put their keyboard down, put their pants back on, clean up the cheetos and head outside with the rest of the world.


it's true, some of us are deserving of that, and in the spirit of Chuckie, "I can accept that"



legend94 said:


> It's been years since I have seen nuthugging like this.
> 
> I don't think you should let it prohibit you from buying and enjoying them. If I was doing a 3 way system I would have some installed now.



nah, I'd be admitting I couldn't find a pair of drivers that do what these do, and from what I've seen the promotional hype from super-duty sound-off winners about the most detailed mid bass EVER, do not appear to be rational or at the least, correct in that broad patronizing, flattering attempt.

Obviously, there are happy customers and I am pretty sure the nuthuggers will take the board, and score it as a resounding win from the duty of ownership, but there just isn't enough to justify the hype train we see here.

and that's okay.

I mean, it's just a mid bass, that tries to be a 2-way woofer and I'm fine with that. Sometimes trying is half the battle.


----------



## gckless

cajunner said:


> I wasn't specifically addressing you with the statement but I did quote your post, so I apologize if you felt I was calling you an expert, on purpose...
> 
> 
> and, your example is good except how often do you install 100lb. drivers?
> 
> I don't.
> 
> And if I did, and I used wood screws, it would probably be against the recommendation by the manufacturer. Because a 100lb. driver would have an installation sheet, stating what type of screw to use.
> 
> 
> Eh, what I'd like to see is either inform people that the tabs can be broken if pushed on by gorilla hands, when trying to install them in a car's mounting location, or supply some low-profile terminals, or even better, wire with the terminals already crimped on, so that the issue doesn't arise.
> 
> if you got them in with standard connectors, show them wired up right before they go in the door?
> 
> the angle on the tabs looks, (and I don't have a speaker here to do it for you, someone who actually has one has to do it) as if it will make a wire stick out into the area surrounding the speaker.
> 
> if I misjudged, and it's not going to impede the installation at all, and nobody is likely to push on the wires to get them to squeeze into the hole, then say that.
> 
> that would be better, right?


I actually installed my last subwoofer (which was 110lbs.) more than I did these TM65s. And that didn't come with an installation sheet.

We can go 'round and 'round with this, so I'll drop it. We both have our opinions. I will just say that here are the tabs I used, that I didn't have issues with:



I really don't feel like pulling the drivers right now to take pictures. I will try to remember to take pictures next time I do pull them though.


----------



## Alrojoca

gckless said:


> I really don't feel like pulling the drivers right now to take pictures. I will try to remember to take pictures next time I do pull them though.







Time will tell. 
If you can add heat shrink over the gap between the wire and the plastic that's fine, they are big bulky and I will never use those again with speakers mounted on the doors. Maybe put some silicon dialectric grease before crimping them. Water gets in the wire and it turns green corroded and the moisture and water hardly ever dries.


----------



## cajunner

gckless said:


> I actually installed my last subwoofer (which was 110lbs.) more than I did these TM65s. And that didn't come with an installation sheet.
> 
> We can go 'round and 'round with this, so I'll drop it. We both have our opinions. I will just say that here are the tabs I used, that I didn't have issues with:
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't feel like pulling the drivers right now to take pictures. I will try to remember to take pictures next time I do pull them though.


it's really not that important, you show a pic of a terminal that looks pretty short and that's great, I could show a terminal that's pretty long, Parts Express sells the Molex brand, it's more representative of what's available...

but the point is that unless people see both coils wired up, they won't get the mental image of trying to put a heavy, unwieldy driver into a door with the four terminals and wires hanging off the sides, unless someone posts a pic of it.

again, a lot of hard scrabble infighting just to defend what, exactly?


that someone on the internet can't possibly find fault with an SI offering?

that a newly designed and developed product by a seemingly egocentric speaker designer must have come out perfect and is impervious to improvements?


I don't know, I think it's a shame people felt obligated to respond to what I posted, as if I was challenging the authority of the Pope or something, I can't help but wonder how seriously some of you are taking this back and forth.


----------



## Electrodynamic

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I think this was better thought out.
> 
> 
> *While we're at it let's complain that nick didn't make the surrounds and cones bullet proof for the guy that will inevitably put a drill through them*.


LOL! Exactly. :laugh:


----------



## captainobvious

cajunner said:


> it's really not that important, you show a pic of a terminal that looks pretty short and that's great, I could show a terminal that's pretty long, Parts Express sells the Molex brand, *it's more representative of what's available...*


Hogwash. 
Those are the same length terminals sold at Home Depot, Lowes and Radioshack. It's the standard size, and they work just fine.


Have a look at his picture again and of this Molex connector from PE.





And this one from Home Depot:








And this one from Radioshack:






What you'll notice is that the jacket/crimp section is the same length as the connector body section in all of these.


Again, people who OWN and have the speakers physically in their hands see no problem with the connections.

:surprised: :surprised:


----------



## seafish

Jeez guys, what is ALL the fuss about terminals…this is DIYma for chris sake, if you can't buy what you need, MAKE what you need. I have to agree with the folks who acknowledge that standard terminal connectors on that dam flimsy piece of fiber card are just that STANDARD…we all know that they require care to use, unless a total noob to car stereo install, in which case being ultra slow and careful SHOULD be SOP.
If you don't want to be slow and careful with the terminals that come one the TM65, then Ceratinly it would be easy enough to solder on a pair of short leads onto the TM65 terminals with whatever terminal ends you desire on them, or leave the leads open ended and even do what others have done (god forbid..theres a whole thread about it…lol)) and use twist-on wire nuts on them which are PERFECTLY safe, even for a noob…LOL.


----------



## quality_sound

legend94 said:


> Lol, you guys are hilarious.
> 
> The terminal is fine on a normal speakers but if you notice the ones on this driver are nearly as wide as the cutout.
> 
> It just seems like 140 per driver one could do better.



And?? The issue didn't have anything to do with the terminal being "nearly as wide as the cutout". You should really just stop. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## quality_sound

cajunner said:


> I challenge you to validate what you and others have said.
> 
> prove, beyond a personal predilection for elevating the word length in my exculpatory posting, that I am doing more than you when it comes to the passive-aggressive exercise.
> 
> look hard at yourself, before pondering if it's necessary to point at me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "These are the people who cause the government to force companies to place thousands of idiotic warnings on products. And how I love that they are the ones who always insist that others provide pics to disprove something that they can't even prove in the first place."
> 
> something of a jump, considering how I've spelled out that a simple disclaimer on the paper that comes with the speakers, would suffice for preventing ham-fisted installers from saying "speakers are junk" because of a relatively weak terminal tab.



What other manufacturer includes that warning no matter the terminal type? The answer is none. THAT is why your post is trolling. You're "championing" a cause against a single manufacturer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## quality_sound

cajunner said:


> he explained why it was necessary to use the thin, unsupported paper terminal tab option and didn't go fancy with the push button or a more secure, robust attachment scheme.
> 
> according to what I've read I believe it was because of the shallow mount design, and he probably couldn't use an off-the speaker builder's shelf, option that would have been less controversial.
> 
> isn't it fun discussing the terminals of a speaker I might have talked myself out of wanting, just because of the nuthugging requirements put on those who decided to give them a try?
> 
> I think it is!



You have never had an intention to buy these drivers and we all know it. You've made that very clear through the entire thread. You're not fooling anyone. At all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LaserSVT

Electrodynamic said:


> LOL! Exactly. :laugh:


On that note my only gripe would be the holes themselves. If the there was a ring or if the rubber for the surround did not come right up to the holes than using a much more available flat backed screw would be nice. I used the same screws i use for every speaker I install and on the TM they grab the rubber. I was doing it by hand and as soon as I saw the rubber start to twist I stopped and used a tappered head screw. 
In hindsight using washers probably would have been a better solution in my case.


Also I use the same terminals I have used for 8 years. The 100 pack from Home Depot.... or Lowes, I forget which. I had zero issues shoving these speakers in my door. While I have never measured the exact hole size I am sure someone here knows the hole size of a 95-99 Silverado/Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon.
But since these speakers terminals are pretty much like 80% of the markets and you know not to just slam them on there. Just wiggle them on slowly and its all good.

I am perfectly happy with my purchase. These are my favorite 6.5" right now for midbass punch and clarity. They get impressively loud and blend well. I guess i will just have to live with weak terminals and sup perfect screw holes.


----------



## Bayboy

Twisting the rubber has been a risk on several drivers in the past. The quick cure is nylon washers which had already been suggested. The same technique that could have been used on the closeout Jamo drivers Zaph tested but others turned down partly due to one person twisting the rubber though he never went past that.


----------



## 1fishman

LaserSVT said:


> On that note my only gripe would be the holes themselves. If the there was a ring or if the rubber for the surround did not come right up to the holes than using a much more available flat backed screw would be nice. I used the same screws i use for every speaker I install and on the TM they grab the rubber. I was doing it by hand and as soon as I saw the rubber start to twist I stopped and used a tappered head screw.
> In hindsight using washers probably would have been a better solution in my case.
> 
> 
> Also I use the same terminals I have used for 8 years. The 100 pack from Home Depot.... or Lowes, I forget which. I had zero issues shoving these speakers in my door. While I have never measured the exact hole size I am sure someone here knows the hole size of a 95-99 Silverado/Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon.
> But since these speakers terminals are pretty much like 80% of the markets and you know not to just slam them on there. Just wiggle them on slowly and its all good.
> 
> I am perfectly happy with my purchase. These are my favorite 6.5" right now for midbass punch and clarity. They get impressively loud and blend well. I guess i will just have to live with weak terminals and sup perfect screw holes.





legend94 said:


> Lol, you guys are hilarious.
> 
> The terminal is fine on a normal speakers but if you notice the ones on this driver are nearly as wide as the cutout.
> 
> It just seems like 140 per driver one could do better.


Nether of these are big deals but definitely worth you guys pointing it out, it was helpful to me at least. 

Installing them i did have a little trouble with the interference of the terminals and the cut out holes, and had to pay extra attention to make sure the aluminum side of CDL (Or any other metal) did not touch the terminals.


----------



## Bayboy

Out of curiosity, why are you running it in 8 ohm? Amp bridged?


----------



## Picaro

Why don't people merely bend/angle the crimped ends of the female connectors a bit, preferably before installing them? As you wouldn't want to put that sort of stress on the tabs of course.


----------



## Porgy

I'd really like to hear from someone who can compare them to the Exodus Anarchies. I have a set of them which I will have to glass into my door as they wont fit naturally and these will fix that problem wonderfully. Also did the price go up again? Sorry if I missed it but these are 140 each now on site. Not deal breaker I just thought I read 125.

As for the terminals... ok nice to know there might be some issue there but waging a F*** SI thread war on the platform of some inconvenient terminals? I thought this was a DIY community. I'll solder my leads and call it a day. SMH


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

125 was preorder price, the preorder is over, normal price is 140.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> As for the terminals... ok nice to know there might be some issue there but waging a F*** SI thread war on the platform of some inconvenient terminals? I thought this was a DIY community. I'll solder my leads and call it a day. SMH


^2

Leave the dude (Nick) to do what he does best.

There are so many things that go unmentioned in this business that sometimes I think a little education might not hurt.

I have had loudspeaker manufacturers ask me to find different binding posts for drivers. There really are not that many types available. And yes you can tool custom ones. But there is a two edged sword on that front. Anyone that asks nicely will have access to your custom tooling. Not quite as easy as it seems.

Have a little bit of understanding. Nick is giving you guys a great well thought out product. Solder or crimp connect your wires and listen to your tunes!


----------



## Alrojoca

Does that include shipping? I thought for the pre order they were $99.00 each


Regarding the terminals, I would not have an issue with them but 

Why not offer the option of wiring for 2 or 8 ohms and add a spring type connector or a screw type like some of the JBL P series come with, for an extra fee of course, for those not skilled to solder or that want to save time by just crimp and connect for a fast installation, and now just connect and done.


----------



## gckless

Porgy said:


> I'd really like to hear from someone who can compare them to the Exodus Anarchies. I have a set of them which I will have to glass into my door as they wont fit naturally and these will fix that problem wonderfully. Also did the price go up again? Sorry if I missed it but these are 140 each now on site. Not deal breaker I just thought I read 125.
> 
> As for the terminals... ok nice to know there might be some issue there but waging a F*** SI thread war on the platform of some inconvenient terminals? I thought this was a DIY community. I'll solder my leads and call it a day. SMH


I just dropped these in replacing anarchy's. I have a temp amp right now, won't have full power for another month at least, probably closer to two (3 week trip to Japan  ), but I will be doing a direct comparison once these are broken in well and under full power and retuned. I'll pull the TM65s out and put the anarchy's back in and back to TM65s. 

I posted my initial impressions, but for my install midbass was better with these. The anarchy's had some lull around 100Hz, these don't. Don't know what that was, I need to revisit that when I put them back in, but these are louder and midrange snap seems more in your face; snare hits sound like they're on your dash. Those three things stood out to me. I like these better so far.


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## Porgy

gckless said:


> I just dropped these in replacing anarchy's. I have a temp amp right now, won't have full power for another month at least, probably closer to two (3 week trip to Japan  ), but I will be doing a direct comparison once these are broken in well and under full power and retuned. I'll pull the TM65s out and put the anarchy's back in and back to TM65s.
> 
> I posted my initial impressions, but for my install midbass was better with these. The anarchy's had some lull around 100Hz, these don't. Don't know what that was, I need to revisit that when I put them back in, but these are louder and midrange snap seems more in your face; snare hits sound like they're on your dash. Those three things stood out to me. I like these better so far.


Excellent! I can't wait to hear your final opinions on it. If I can forego glassing my doors to fit the anarchys for even relatively similar sound results and a lot less headache Im going to snatch these up.


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## subwoofery

cajunner said:


> he explained why it was necessary to use the thin, unsupported paper terminal tab option and didn't go fancy with the push button or a more secure, robust attachment scheme.
> 
> according to what I've read I believe it was because of the shallow mount design, and he probably couldn't use an off-the speaker builder's shelf, option that would have been less controversial.
> 
> isn't it fun discussing the terminals of a speaker I might have talked myself out of wanting, just because of the nuthugging requirements put on those who decided to give them a try?
> 
> I think it is!


Some people would find your posts unnecessary, but I do like to read those... most of the time :laugh: jokin' 

If you did not exist, somebody should take the time and invent you  

Kelvin


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## LaserSVT




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## gckless

Porgy said:


> Excellent! I can't wait to hear your final opinions on it. If I can forego glassing my doors to fit the anarchys for even relatively similar sound results and a lot less headache Im going to snatch these up.


As of right now, I can confidently say that these are better drivers, especially if you're trying to find a way to not do glass work. The Anarchy's are a cheaper driver price-wise, and if you're on a budget they aren't super far off. The extra money spent here can save a TON of install headaches and get you an overall better driver though.


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## 1fishman

Bayboy said:


> Out of curiosity, why are you running it in 8 ohm? Amp bridged?


I'm just curious by nature. I tried it both ways to hear the difference for myself.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Alrojoca said:


> Does that include shipping? I thought for the pre order they were $99.00 each
> 
> 
> Regarding the terminals, I would not have an issue with them but
> 
> Why not offer the option of wiring for 2 or 8 ohms and add a spring type connector or a screw type like some of the JBL P series come with, for an extra fee of course, for those not skilled to solder or that want to save time by just crimp and connect for a fast installation, and now just connect and done.


I think your right, my bad.


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## Weightless

Nick, email sent.


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## Wy2quiet

How are you guys not destroying the surround? I am trying to mount them and I have already completely separated the surround from the basket with barely any pressure...it was not glued very strongly :-(


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## LaserSVT

Tapered or washered screws.


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## Bayboy

Yes, nylon washers indeed.... accomplishes two things. 

1. Protects the surrounds from being separated during installation as it is obvious. 

2. Keeps mounting marks to a minimum with any driver which helps retain value for resale. 

I recommend washers over tapered screws as even they don't fully protect from marking or wallowing which they're even worse for. Nylon washers can easily be found locally and cheap enough not to use them. Can't get them in black, then lay a quick spray of black paint on them before installation to make them "disappear".


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## Alrojoca

Thanks for posting the picture 1fishman,

Clearly It shows that the plastic adds over 20% in overall size to the terminals.

Good tip about the nylon washers, I wish I used those before to prevent scratching the mounting holes, I still have no clue how those prevent pinching the rubber surround.


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## captainobvious

Alrojoca said:


> Thanks for posting the picture 1fishman,
> 
> Clearly It shows that the plastic adds over 20% in overall size to the terminals.
> 
> Good tip about the nylon washers, I wish I used those before to prevent scratching the mounting holes, I still have no clue how those prevent pinching the rubber surround.


Because the washer merely sits on the rubber and the screw is able to 'slide' on the nylon washer when being torqued down, as opposed to grabbing on the rubber material.


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## Bayboy

Great for cast frame drivers where you want to keep the frame looking as if it has never been mounted (not to fool someone into thinking it's never been used though). Nothing worse than seeing drivers with frames such as Peerless XXL or Seas that have the holes marred or wallowed out from use. Of course it doesn't affect performance, but for the anal.... yeah it's an issue.


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## Alrojoca

captainobvious said:


> Because the washer merely sits on the rubber and the screw is able to 'slide' on the nylon washer when being torqued down, as opposed to grabbing on the rubber material.


Thanks, I guess what I missed was that the rubber surround has a flat area that sits or is glued on the the speaker frame mounting area. After looking at the pictures, I figured it out, I guess. I thought you were talking about the surround part next to the cone area




Bayboy said:


> Great for cast frame drivers where you want to keep the frame looking as if it has never been mounted (not to fool someone into thinking it's never been used though). Nothing worse than seeing drivers with frames such as Peerless XXL or Seas that have the holes marred or wallowed out from use. Of course it doesn't affect performance, but for the anal.... yeah it's an issue.



Yes, I will use them in the future although I am never rough on those or over tighten the screws, and I normally just use 4 not 8 like I have seen and just a little sharpie touches may cover silver scars on the black paint.


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## Bayboy

Alrojoca said:


> Yes, I will use them in the future although I am never rough on those or over tighten the screws, and I normally just use 4 not 8 like I have seen and just a little sharpie touches may cover silver scars on the black paint.




I do the same more often than my talk renders, but the DIY crowd is a very picky and quite fickle one as well. Gear that may not seemed so desirable at one time may be of choice later on. So if you ever sit on something for a while and want to be able to get rid of it without losing all of it's value, best that it's in pristine condition.


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## Alrojoca

Bayboy said:


> I do the same more often than my talk renders, but the DIY crowd is a very picky and quite fickle one as well. Gear that may not seemed so desirable at one time may be of choice later on. So if you ever sit on something for a while and want to be able to get rid of it without losing all of it's value, best that it's in pristine condition.


Personally, I would pay more attention to the cone, surround, terminals, magnet and know it is functional. The mounting holes scratched would be the last thing I would care about but I still use those washers


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## Bayboy

Same here..


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## Electrodynamic

Weightless said:


> Nick, email sent.


What is your email about? Name, order number, product, those things are helpful. Unfortunately a screen name on a forum does little to help me make sure I've seen or replied to your email. I got an email from someone (the first guy to post about breaking a terminal - I remember his name because he was Obsidian customer). The terminals can be replaced / repaired with very little hassle at our shop. It's tricky work to make sure everything clears and does not stretch the spider lead wires and/or that the solder end of the terminal is able to be re-inserted but it can be done.  I've also replied to an email about a missed pre-order that I'll get shipped out the middle of this coming week.


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## Weightless

Haha, sorry. I forgot to add my username in my email. Im the one with the missed preorder. Thanks for the prompt reply!


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## Babs

Nick, Might have been brought up.. Any ideas of possibly an 8" version? Just curious thinking about an upcoming '13 Tacoma 3-way+sub project looking at me. Granted these little jewels might be just fine and dandy as is in a 3-way possibly with something like RS75 Daytons or 10F scans if I could squeeze the scans into the stock spots in the doors.


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## Electrodynamic

Babs said:


> Nick, Might have been brought up.. Any ideas of possibly an 8" version? Just curious thinking about an upcoming '13 Tacoma 3-way+sub project looking at me. Granted these little jewels might be just fine and dandy as is in a 3-way possibly with something like RS75 Daytons or 10F scans if I could squeeze the scans into the stock spots in the doors.


Honestly it depends on how well the TM65's continue to sell. If I'm only going to sell <500 pcs of the TM65's per year it's not worth the investment to make an 8" version because an 8" version requires a completely custom basket, cone, surround, etc (read: $7,000 minimum tooling cost). If the price needs to be set low to sell on DIYMA I'd rather not make the product and the use the funds for another driver like the BM mkV. The TM65 is a good measure for sales as it bests drivers that cost 3x the price yet customers still buy the very higher priced lower performing drivers. Having said the latter, the answer is no. If you guys want to form a fund to tool the parts needed I will gladly offer the shallow 8" driver once the tooling is paid for.


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## Darth SQ

All that over a broken terminal tab?
Why am I not surprised....it's DIYMA after all. :mean:
I just wasted 20 minutes scrubbing up the mess.
Let's start fresh and keep it constructive please.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Babs

:beerchug: 20 minutes you'll never get back unfortunately. 

So talking to one of our own last night about getting all uppity and going 3-way in my car. There's a very good chance I'll have to try it.. D3004 / 10F / TM65. 

It's darn too tempting, yet I know all the work I'll have to do. I'm thinking 3.5khz, 300ish hz crossover points or so. Could make for a serious front stage. Especially if I run 100x4 from a PDX F4 to the tweets and mids, then bridge the NVX for 400x2 for the TM's. That might be way overkill but might be stellar control and capability in the mid-bass region.

So actually Nick, this unit being a 6-1/2" makes it feasible for me, as I know how much door-hacking would be necessary for any 8" driver, and if this thing carries the authority 300hz down to mate with a strong sub, it makes install in my particular car a breeze. Now if it could re-do my pillars for me, that'd be great.


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## tjswarbrick

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> All that over a broken terminal tab?
> Why am I not surprised....it's DIYMA after all. :mean:
> I just wasted 20 minutes scrubbing up the mess.
> Let's start fresh and keep it constructive please.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Thank you!



Babs said:


> :beerchug: 20 minutes you'll never get back unfortunately.
> 
> So talking to one of our own last night about getting all uppity and going 3-way in my car. There's a very good chance I'll have to try it.. D3004 / 10F / TM65.
> 
> It's darn too tempting, yet I know all the work I'll have to do. I'm thinking 3.5khz, 300ish hz crossover points or so. Could make for a serious front stage. Especially if I run 100x4 from a PDX F4 to the tweets and mids, then bridge the NVX for 400x2 for the TM's. That might be way overkill but might be stellar control and capability in the mid-bass region.


Can you bridge the NVX into 2 Ohms? If not, bridge into 8Ohm for ~ 200wpc on the TM65's, for merely perfect overkill


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## Babs

tjswarbrick said:


> Can you bridge the NVX into 2 Ohms? If not, bridge into 8Ohm for ~ 200wpc on the TM65's, for merely perfect overkill


Yeah I thought about that. Nope.. Conventional 4 ohm minimum bridged. 200 would probably be just peachy I'd bet. Or, I could run 125 tweet, 125 mid on the NVX, then bridge the PDX for 8ohm load.. Don't know if that 200 watts regulated still applies at 8 ohms. Lots of possibilities. Actually.. I should probably verify the impedance on this illustrious celebrated 10F I'm considering.


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## tjswarbrick

Babs said:


> Actually.. I should probably verify the impedance on this illustrious celebrated 10F I'm considering.


Good idea. I know 10F's come in both 4Ohm and 8Ohm versions.


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## Electrodynamic

Babs said:


> :beerchug: 20 minutes you'll never get back unfortunately.
> 
> So talking to one of our own last night about getting all uppity and going 3-way in my car. There's a very good chance I'll have to try it.. D3004 / 10F / TM65.
> 
> It's darn too tempting, yet I know all the work I'll have to do. I'm thinking 3.5khz, 300ish hz crossover points or so. Could make for a serious front stage. Especially if I run 100x4 from a PDX F4 to the tweets and mids, then bridge the NVX for 400x2 for the TM's. That might be way overkill but might be stellar control and capability in the mid-bass region.
> 
> *So actually Nick, this unit being a 6-1/2" makes it feasible for me, as I know how much door-hacking would be necessary for any 8" driver, and if this thing carries the authority 300hz down to mate with a strong sub, it makes install in my particular car a breeze. * Now if it could re-do my pillars for me, that'd be great.


That was the idea the entire time, haha. Design a 6.5" mid/woofer that could be installed easily in a factory door and offer kick-a$$ midbass while playing cleanly up to 2,000 Hz or higher. I too have done the door-sectomy and have hated the results when selling the car telling the new owner "you can't put normal sized speakers in the door anymore."


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## captainobvious

I'm thinking you should have copious amounts of midbass with the TM65 and a decent sub.


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## LaserSVT

You do. I suspect that when you are waiting in line at the Pearly Gates and you hear the music playing that they are using these speakers.


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## The real Subzero

LaserSVT said:


> You do. I suspect that when you are waiting in line at the Pearly Gates and you hear the music playing that they are using these speakers.


From what I heard last night, sitting in my car listening to my newly acquired midbass , they sound fantastic! I havent even begin to do indepth tuning yet. Good job SI./


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## Babs

captainobvious said:


> I'm thinking you should have copious amounts of midbass with the TM65 and a decent sub.


^ Warning! This man will give you ideas that'll make you tear up a perfectly good 2-way build. LOL!! 

Especially if you hear his wife's car. My wife won't let me change the radio out. It's sad. :mean:


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