# life after frogs



## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

I've been contemplating my next set of 3-way speakers... i'm currently running audio frog gb10; gb25; gb60.. there is nothing wrong with them, but just looking to try something else... so will be posting them up very soon in classifieds.. looking for suggestions please... what would you try next.... my current system is in my signature if you want to know what will be powering them.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

toneloc2 said:


> I've been contemplating my next set of 3-way speakers... i'm currently running audio frog gb10; gb25; gb60.. there is nothing wrong with them, but just looking to try something else... so will be posting them up very soon in classifieds.. looking for suggestions please... what would you try next.... my current system is in my signature if you want to know what will be powering them.


Concerning the GB25 midrange. If you had to sum them up, what would you say? Strengths vs Weaknesses
Many Thanks in advance.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

toneloc2 said:


> I've been contemplating my next set of 3-way speakers... i'm currently running audio frog gb10; gb25; gb60.. there is nothing wrong with them, but just looking to try something else... so will be posting them up very soon in classifieds.. looking for suggestions please... what would you try next.... my current system is in my signature if you want to know what will be powering them.


Look forward to seeing what you do... My second choice after the Morel Elates, was Dynaudio Esotecs... I know those aren't unique or unusual, but you know their reputation.


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## Bchester6 (Jan 15, 2020)

Gladen Zero Pro 165.3 are just intriguing to me. Their subs are some of the best I've ever heard so how bad can they be.


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

those are good suggestion. vegasStereo the gb 25 are excellent they handle a lot of power. weakness well none really,
i was thinking of going back to focal utopia's or maybe try the jl c7 or the morels


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

GZ has some very tempting 3 ways


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

toneloc2 said:


> those are good suggestion. vegasStereo the gb 25 are excellent they handle a lot of power. weakness well none really,
> i was thinking of going back to focal utopia's or maybe try the jl c7 or the morels



I stumbled upon this

















JL Audio Complete sound upgrade *LiteBrite* Video


So Kevin and Britney just got some JL Audio goodies installed on their jeep by JL Audio. Looks really nice!!




www.jlwranglerforums.com


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

DavidRam said:


> I stumbled upon this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice.... i'm definitely doing some sort of on axis pods with those grills just need to figure out the next set of speakers


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

toneloc2 said:


> those are good suggestion. vegasStereo the gb 25 are excellent they handle a lot of power. weakness well none really,
> i was thinking of going back to focal utopia's or maybe try the jl c7 or the morels





toneloc2 said:


> those are good suggestion. vegasStereo the gb 25 are excellent they handle a lot of power. weakness well none really,
> i was thinking of going back to focal utopia's or maybe try the jl c7 or the morels


Thanks man


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## Firefighter9 (Sep 23, 2015)

I went from Morel elates to the AF GB 3 way. I think the only sets I would switch the frogs out for would be the Dynaudio 3 way or Focal M series (if I stumbled onto a pile of money lol)


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## bnae38 (Oct 3, 2015)

The new Arc Audio line of speakers might be worth a look, dont hear much about them.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Firefighter9 said:


> I went from Morel elates to the AF GB 3 way. I think the only sets I would switch the frogs out for would be the Dynaudio 3 way or Focal M series (if I stumbled onto a pile of money lol)


May I ask how you like the Audiofrog GB drivers?


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

Focal Utopia M 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

bnae38 said:


> The new Arc Audio line of speakers might be worth a look, dont hear much about them.


Yes, definitely check out the Arc RS line. They don't get much press. Pretty sure they are made by Satori and have similar attributes but engineered for automotive application- low moving mass and strongish motors make for startling dynamics & realism. Relatively reasonably priced too. Very happy with my RS 4.0 / RS 1.0 combo.


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## Firefighter9 (Sep 23, 2015)

VegasStereo said:


> May I ask how you like the Audiofrog GB drivers?


I absolutely love them. I finally have no intentions of switching equipment anytime soon.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Im thinking very strongly about the GB40 midrange and the GB12 D2 subwoofer. Can you tell me anything in specific? I keep seeing great reviews but nothing very specific. Id appreciate any detail you could offer. Thanks.


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## Asdcreation (Dec 11, 2018)

Focal utopia m is definitely pretty good,their beryllium tweeters are unbeatable,6.5 woofers have much better midbass than older utopia,3.5 midrange matches nicely with the rest of the system,sub is of great sq quality & goes deep,definitely jl 2 × 8"subs (250×2=500 watts-cp108lg) will beat the single utopia m sub 10"(800 watts) in terms of bass but in terms of sq quality utopia m sub is @ top ,so yeah if u like to shake your vehicle get 2x utopia m subs or jl subs as cheaper option


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## Asdcreation (Dec 11, 2018)

Utopia m sub blends really well with the midbass & you dont feel that the bass is coming from back of the suv most of the time unlike jl or other brands where from first song u will know the sub is in the back


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

thank you everyone for your input. I've decided to go back to the utopias. almost had a deal on some morels but i think i will go back to what i know.... will be posting the frogs up soon.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Hit me up when you put the Audiofrogsup for sale.?


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

VegasStereo said:


> Hit me up when you put the Audiofrogsup for sale.?


sent you a pm


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

toneloc2 said:


> thank you everyone for your input. I've decided to go back to the utopias.


Are you going with traditional Utopias? Or Utopia M's?


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

traditional 2-way m for the mid-range for now... don't think the m series tweets would be much different..


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

toneloc2 said:


> I've been contemplating my next set of 3-way speakers... i'm currently running audio frog gb10; gb25; gb60.. there is nothing wrong with them, but just looking to try something else... so will be posting them up very soon in classifieds.. looking for suggestions please... what would you try next.... my current system is in my signature if you want to know what will be powering them.


Arc RS


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

Audio Development ESA or MM series 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

I would look at Focal speker systems, since they are well known for exelent bass and upper bass, My personal pick and vote would go to ZR Speaker Labs (Originals made by Zvone Raspor), he also have a killer 8" bass driver option if you are looking for a bit bigger midbass driver.
Cheaper option is to go with GZ Reference system, but it is on much lower quality level than original ZR LABs, started with cheap speaker basket.

Also, Hybrid Audio Technilogies have very nice X V line out, it sounds really good

Another newcomer to car audio is Accuton - you will find their drivers in expensive hi-end home speakers (Peter Steinbacher (FB) might have more info on them


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

AVIDEDTR said:


> Arc RS


Checked out the RS speakers. They look very good...Have you listened to them? 

In my 2006 MB SLK, I am replacing my 3x2 door speakers. I've been vacillating between JL Audio and Audiofrog. But I'm now leaning towards the ARC RS component series. Neodynium motors, papyrus cones and interesting new dust caps. 





Store | Arc Audio







www.arcaudio.com





Now I need to find a good 8" shallow sub for behind the footwell and a good AB or AB/D amp/DSP. Zapco's looked like a reasonably priced, capable amp/DSP... But I'm open to suggestion.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

RS Speakers are great.


SLicK55 AMG said:


> Checked out the RS speakers. They look very good...Have you listened to them?
> 
> In my 2006 MB SLK, I am replacing my 3x2 door speakers. I've been vacillating between JL Audio and Audiofrog. But I'm now leaning towards the ARC RS component series. Neodynium motors, papyrus cones and interesting new dust caps.
> 
> ...


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

SLicK55 AMG said:


> Checked out the RS speakers. They look very good...Have you listened to them?


I've been using the RS 1.0 and RS 4.0 for five months now. Prior to the RS 4.0, I was using the RS 3.0 for several months and decided to upgrade to the RS 4.0 because I had the space. Very happy with them all. Better detail & dynamic transients compared the Morels they replaced. Very live and real sounding instruments/vocals.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

Truthunter said:


> I've been using the RS 1.0 and RS 4.0 for five months now. Prior to the RS 4.0, I was using the RS 3.0 for several months and decided to upgrade to the RS 4.0 because I had the space. Very happy with them all. Better detail & dynamic transients compared the Morels they replaced. Very live and real sounding instruments/vocals.


Excellent....Went on their website. You can only buy the speakers from Arc Audio....Hopefully custom installers down here won't have an issue installing speakers I bring.

If I may ask, which DSP and amp and is driving them.


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

U can buy from any Arc dealer, I’m sure there is one near u 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

MrGreen83 said:


> U can buy from any Arc dealer, I’m sure there is one near u
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh. I misread their warning page wrong. Just can't buy online except for Arc and some other place.....Thanks.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

SLicK55 AMG said:


> If I may ask, which DSP and amp and is driving them.


DSP is a MiniDSP CDSP8x12DL 
Amp is an Arc Audio 4150xxk


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

this is on its way to me. new in the box. should have by Monday....


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## Bchester6 (Jan 15, 2020)

Beautes!!


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## dsquared (Aug 10, 2016)

What do you feel your gain is going to be from the frogs ?
Lateral move possibly ?


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

well the tweet for sure.... but mostly a lateral move... i had the older 2-way utopia kit with a k2 mid-range and loved it and was able to tune it for my other jeep... so i think with these i will be able to get close to what pleased me before. i still have a lot of work to do with this new jeep, don't get me wrong the frogs are some of the most wonderfully sounding speakers i've herd...


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## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

MrGreen83 said:


> Audio Development ESA or MM series
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes!


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

Well the replacements have arrived today. Can’t wait


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

After mentally committing to the ARC Audio RS speakers, now I'm trying to decide between amplifiers:
MMATS HiFi6150D or ARC Audio 1000.6 or Audio Control D6.1200. All are D class. 

The Audio Control has the biggest bang for the buck at $1000 it comes with a DSP. The other 2 are also $1000 but you need to buy a DSP. ARC has the DSP option for another $600.

I've heard the most glowing, positive comments about the MMATS. Many were from former AB afficionados..

I read that MMATS were the originators of Class D amps...I'm leaning MMATS way... I wish there was an inexpensive but worthy DSP as it seems that I'll(the installer) will only use it once at the install. Maybe twice for a tweak. Or maybe I just don't know how many times it will be used!


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

toneloc2 said:


> Well the replacements have arrived today. Can’t wait
> View attachment 261104


Beautiful. I’ve loved the upper Focal offerings since they updated the tweets on the ES165KX2 set. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

SLicK55 AMG said:


> After mentally committing to the ARC Audio RS speakers, now I'm trying to decide between amplifiers:
> MMATS HiFi6150D or ARC Audio 1000.6 or Audio Control D6.1200. All are D class.
> 
> The Audio Control has the biggest bang for the buck at $1000 it comes with a DSP. The other 2 are also $1000 but you need to buy a DSP. ARC has the DSP option for another $600.
> ...


I would go with ARC, more power, low distortion and the onboard DSP is a PS8PRO. So to me it's a win win.
I own the PS850 and love it!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Of the three options you listed, I would go the Arc 1000.6 w/ IPS8.8 DSP route as well.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

AVIDEDTR said:


> I would go with ARC, more power, low distortion and the onboard DSP is a PS8PRO. So to me it's a win win.
> I own the PS850 and love it!


Thanks guys......I have no doubt that the ARC is a great amp. And convenient.

I'm trying to find reviews on the ARC 1000.6 but besides you, I haven't found any. But I've read 20-30 raving reviews of the MMATS from folks who are what I'd call experts in car audio.. Costs are similar although there'd be more installation costs with the MMATS + a DSP...Another consideration is, I can't tune a fish. But I'd like to learn. Are most DSP's as easy as the other to use? 

Maybe ARC would give me a package deal on the RS 1.0, 3.0, 6.0 and the 1000.6 I wonder?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

It sounds like you're working with a dealer. I would rely heavily on THEIR suggestions, not just random people you don't know on the internet. (Myself included.) If they are providing the product, the installation and the tuning, make your selections from what they offer and recommend. Do your best to describe what you want and work with them so that they can design the system to best meets your criteria.

On the MMATS amps, I know there have been some rave reviews around here over the last year. As a counter, I talked to a very reputable shop here in California about the MMATS products a while back. They are a dealer and said when they work well, they are great. But, more than any other brand they carried, MMATS had quality issues. They had so many issues with them they had all but stopped using them for their installs. 

As I said, this was over a year ago when I talked to them. Maybe things have changed. And if you dealer sells MMATS and recommends them to you, I would trust their opinion. Mostly, because you know that even if there is an issue, the shop should stand behind the products they sell and install.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

rton20s said:


> It sounds like you're working with a dealer. I would rely heavily on THEIR suggestions, not just random people you don't know on the internet. (Myself included.) If they are providing the product, the installation and the tuning, make your selections from what they offer and recommend. Do your best to describe what you want and work with them so that they can design the system to best meets your criteria.
> 
> On the MMATS amps, I know there have been some rave reviews around here over the last year. As a counter, I talked to a very reputable shop here in California about the MMATS products a while back. They are a dealer and said when they work well, they are great. But, more than any other brand they carried, MMATS had quality issues. They had so many issues with them they had all but stopped using them for their installs.
> 
> As I said, this was over a year ago when I talked to them. Maybe things have changed. And if you dealer sells MMATS and recommends them to you, I would trust their opinion. Mostly, because you know that even if there is an issue, the shop should stand behind the products they sell and install.


I understand..I called ARC Audio and they gave me the # of a custom installer not too far from me. Gave them an intro call and will stop by soon for them to make recommendations.

Has anyone hear tried any of the ARC component speakers below the RS series?


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## Bchester6 (Jan 15, 2020)

Get the MMats and get the new Dayton DSP for about 150.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

Bchester6 said:


> Get the MMats and get the new Dayton DSP for about 150.


I've heard a lot of great things about the MMATS but I need convenience in that I need to deal with an installer who is familiar with the DSP especially. 

If the ARC is sonically close to the MMATS, then the ARC having the DSP be able to be attached to the amp saves me in installation costs, as I would have the ARC and the ARC RS speakers all installed at the same place. The installation costs will be on the high side so packaging it all in ARC gear might save me some coin if possible. 

But, the MMATS M600.2 mono amp and their shallow mount SM 10" sub could be the right way to go if I place it behind the footwell in my SLK.


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## Bchester6 (Jan 15, 2020)

I like both brands to tell you the truth. Arc has a shallow mount sub that is very install friendly as well.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

Bchester6 said:


> I like both brands to tell you the truth. Arc has a shallow mount sub that is very install friendly as well.


Awesome. I've pretty much made my mind up to install the ARC 1000.6 w DSP, RS 1.0,3.0, 6.0 and Pioneer AVH-W4500NEX head unit with an ARC dealer.
My cars amp is in the passenger footwell. If it doesn't make the install more difficult and it will sound right, I'd like to put the sub there so it's in the cabin. Either the ARC 8 or ARC 10 in a small enclosure and have the footwell carpet lay over the enclosure so you can't even tell there's a sub there. And mount the 1000.6 in the trunk.(I guess the USB for the DSP travels through the trunk to the dash or armrest cabin so you can hook it up to a laptop?)

Then I need to figure out which ARC amp to power the sub. I don't see any specific sub amps on their website. Only full range amps. Surely ARC must make a sub amp.


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## Tbone310 (Sep 8, 2013)

SLicK55 AMG said:


> Awesome. I've pretty much made my mind up to install the ARC 1000.6 w DSP, RS 1.0,3.0, 6.0 and Pioneer AVH-W4500NEX head unit with an ARC dealer.


I wonder how many more dvd/cd head units Pioneer will make after the AVH-W4500NEX. Seems like they didn't really add many if any to this years line up.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

Tbone310 said:


> I wonder how many more dvd/cd head units Pioneer will make after the AVH-W4500NEX. Seems like they did really add many if any to this years line up.


I didn't quite understand what you said. Pioneer did NOT add many dvd/cd units to this years lineup? I'm indifferent about having a CD/DVD player. I haven't played a CD in my car in many years but might have with my new audio system.

I wasn't aware Pioneer made new units this year although I did not check. But I saw on you tube they came out with the DMH-WT8600NEX. But that's 10". I need to see if they've come out with any new 7" units.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

On the head unit, I would strongly consider a change to the Kenwood DDX9907XR or DDX9906XR. The sound quality is great and the screens are second to none. I use the older DDX9905S in my own car.

For the sub amp, Arc has plenty of options. If you want to match the style of the 1000.6, check out the 1000.2. The amp provides 500W x 2 @ 4 Ohms, 600W x 2 @ 2 Ohms or 1200W x 1 @ 4 Ohms bridged. If you insist on having a mono amp, the X2 line offers the 650.1, 1100.1 and 2500.1. Any of these would be a good choice, depending on your power needs. 

For what it is worth, I don't run any mono amps in my install. I run a pair of 10s and each one is powered off its own 2 channel amp bridged.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

rton20s said:


> On the head unit, I would strongly consider a change to the Kenwood DDX9907XR or DDX9906XR. The sound quality is great and the screens are second to none. I use the older DDX9905S in my own car.
> 
> For the sub amp, Arc has plenty of options. If you want to match the style of the 1000.6, check out the 1000.2. The amp provides 500W x 2 @ 4 Ohms, 600W x 2 @ 2 Ohms or 1200W x 1 @ 4 Ohms bridged. If you insist on having a mono amp, the X2 line offers the 650.1, 1100.1 and 2500.1. Any of these would be a good choice, depending on your power needs.
> 
> For what it is worth, I don't run any mono amps in my install. I run a pair of 10s and each one is powered off its own 2 channel amp bridged.


Thanks for your recommendations. I've checked out the Kenwood9906. Looks very good. I will definitely consider it..I haven't played a CD in my car in 5+ years like the 4500NEX has.....Have you seen that Pioneer has just come out with new head units?

Their DMHW4600NEX looks very good. Capacitive screen. Volume/mic/web buttons on the left side of the touch screen. Might be the 4500's upgraded model.

As far as the ARC 1000.2, it's a little rich for my budget. I was looking at MMATS shallow mount sub and 600.2 mono amp. Both very reasonably priced but even though we are sort of close to their factory, my installer may not have access to them...I'm not a basshead. Just would like accurate representation....When I meet the installers, I'll see what 1 or 2 channel amp they recommend. Also curious if the installers can put the sub in the footwell and amp(s) in the trunk or it's better to put the amp in the footwell(where the OEM amp is) and the sub in the trunk...They're going to have to place new speaker wire in either case.......Thanks again.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

The Pioneer head units you listed, even the brand new DMH-W4660NEX with capacitive screen are still low res screens (800x480). Only Pioneer's larger 9" and 10" screens feature a 720p display. 

Kenwood has had 720p displays for three generations now, starting with the DNX995S & DDX9905S. For the third generation, the none DVD model (DMX957XR) now has the same high resolution screen. Though, if you don't need the latest of features, you can probably find a really good deal on a DDX9905S or DDX9906XR right now.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

SLicK55 AMG said:


> Thanks for your recommendations. I've checked out the Kenwood9906. Looks very good. I will definitely consider it..I haven't played a CD in my car in 5+ years like the 4500NEX has.....Have you seen that Pioneer has just come out with new head units?
> 
> Their DMHW4600NEX looks very good. Capacitive screen. Volume/mic/web buttons on the left side of the touch screen. Might be the 4500's upgraded model.
> 
> As far as the ARC 1000.2, it's a little rich for my budget. I was looking at MMATS shallow mount sub and 600.2 mono amp. Both very reasonably priced but even though we are sort of close to their factory, my installer may not have access to them...I'm not a basshead. Just would like accurate representation....When I meet the installers, I'll see what 1 or 2 channel amp they recommend. Also curious if the installers can put the sub in the footwell and amp(s) in the trunk or it's better to put the amp in the footwell(where the OEM amp is) and the sub in the trunk...They're going to have to place new speaker wire in either case.......Thanks again.


If you don't use CDs/DVDs, then I don't think the DDX9907XR or DDX9906XR make much sense. Check out the DMX906S. It doesn't play CD's, but it has a very nice capacitive touch screen, and even though the screen isn't quite as nice as the DDX9907XR or DDX9906XR it doesn't matter if all you're looking at is album art.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

rton20s said:


> The Pioneer head units you listed, even the brand new DMH-W4660NEX with capacitive screen are still low res screens (800x480). Only Pioneer's larger 9" and 10" screens feature a 720p display.
> 
> Kenwood has had 720p displays for three generations now, starting with the DNX995S & DDX9905S. For the third generation, the none DVD model (DMX957XR) now has the same high resolution screen. Though, if you don't need the latest of features, you can probably find a really good deal on a DDX9905S or DDX9906XR right now.


Thanks again guys...I was thinking, with the new audio system, playing and listening to well recorded CD's may be well worth it. One attractive thing, for me at least with the Pioneer, is the vol/mic/menu buttons on the left of the 4600's screen. I've had a crappy MB OEM screen for 11 years so any screen is a visual improvement! But if it sounds better than the Pioneer, then I'll definitely look into the 9906XR.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

If you don't care about Wireless CarPlay or a third camera input the current price on Amazon Prime is an absolute steal for the DDX9905S. It probably won't last much longer, as this is now a two year old unit.

https://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-Excelon-DDX9905S-Multimedia-Receiver/dp/B07BSXXLG6


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## dsquared (Aug 10, 2016)

Slick maybe you should start a new thread for your system . Good info from everybody but I’m more interested what the OP is doing .
So with that said , Tone Loc have you installed the Focal set yet ?
Like to hear what your heard of you have.


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## SLicK55 AMG (Jan 23, 2020)

dsquared said:


> Slick maybe you should start a new thread for your system . Good info from everybody but I’m more interested what the OP is doing .
> So with that said , Tone Loc have you installed the Focal set yet ?
> Like to hear what your heard of you have.


No problem. I've got the path. Thanks.


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

Diatone DS-SA1000





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www.mitsubishielectric.co.jp







https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/skydragon/item/me-dssa1000/


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## toneloc2 (Nov 29, 2015)

Ya I didn’t want to be rude and interrupt what they had going on lol


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## Bchester6 (Jan 15, 2020)

That's the most expensive set of OEM replacements I've ever seen.


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## Jahuntley79 (Jan 5, 2020)

DavidRam said:


> Look forward to seeing what you do... My second choice after the Morel Elates, was Dynaudio Esotecs... I know those aren't unique or unusual, but you know their reputation.


I'm putting morel elate mids cdm 880 in tomorrow. Paired with morel hybrid 602s.


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## lurch (Jan 20, 2014)

evo9 said:


> Diatone DS-SA1000
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The translation of the information is absolutely HILARIOUS. !
A lot of information regarding the " toe eaters " ??


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