# JBL MS-8 still the king?



## OKCarver (May 18, 2017)

So just wondering, is the JBL MS-8 still the NOOB autotune DSP champion. Or have any new additions unseated it. Simple 2-way setup with no prior DSP experience. Is my understanding this unit could get you 90% of the way to audio nirvana easy peasy.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

For Autotune, unless there is something else out there then yep. I don't think there are any other options at the moment.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

90 percent is probably optimistic..75 is more likely, but its a good starting point and a nice simple way to learn about eq. the problem is, when you want to go further..you cant because of the set up and auto tune limitations


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## OKCarver (May 18, 2017)

Thanks guys. Exactly Lycancatt, because I bought a Mosconi 4to6, but the manual scares the shot out of me. I was going to have it installed and tuned, but to make changes as the speakers get worn in is a daunting thought. I guess we all have to start somewhere, but the thought of easing into it with a Ms-8 is very appealing. Could keep the Mosconi until I'm ready to tackle the commitment of a more dedicated DSP tweeker selection. I could also get lucky, enjoy the sound in my daily driver enough and just sell the Mosconi. The choices we face.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

There was talk that Andy's was working on the next level autotuning DSP, for Audio Frog.
I'm guessing it may see the light of day next year but i don't really no.


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## OKCarver (May 18, 2017)

Funny you mentioned that, because the last time I was in Car Toys Tulsa, the sales guy said Andy was a great friend, and he might be able to get a hint NEEWW hint DSP directly from Audiofrog and might just be able to get Andy to install it personally. I was like, yea, Right wouldn't that be COOOL. Left him my E-mail and never heard back from him. Go figure.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

OKCarver said:


> Funny you mentioned that, because the last time I was in Car Toys Tulsa, the sales guy said Andy was a great friend, and he might be able to get a hint NEEWW hint DSP directly from Audiofrog and might just be able to get Andy to install it personally. I was like, yea, Right wouldn't that be COOOL. Left him my E-mail and never heard back from him. Go figure.


Now that would be cool.

I wonder how he can keep giving so much great customer service and still have time to develope products. I think he may have clones.


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## OKCarver (May 18, 2017)

Right!!! I could then post praise here. It's a win, win. Was really upset when there was no response what so ever after getting, I have to admit a bit excited, on what I know was a super one in a million type long shot. But, so it goes.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

OKCarver said:


> Right!!! I could then post praise here. It's a win, win. Was really upset when there was no response what so ever after getting, I have to admit a bit excited, on what I know was a super one in a million type long shot. But, so it goes.


There are audiofrog processors being made. There are some prototypes but they definitely won't let one go to a shops customer 

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## JH1973 (Apr 21, 2017)

I'm going all in with a mini DSP.No beginner units for me.I have 0 experience with running active and am heading into the abyss!! Lycancatt,you'll need to PM me your cell number for panic calls!!! LOL


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## josby (May 8, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> There are audiofrog processors being made. There are some prototypes but they definitely won't let one go to a shops customer


Also, everything I have read about them has not mentioned any autotune capability, since the OP mentioned that specifically. 

My impression has been that his new DSP will offer better surround processing than the MS-8 did and way more adjustability, but no more autotune. It was a laudable idea but the majority of the questions in the MS-8 forum were related to the autotune so I wouldn't think he'd want a repeat of that. But I'll be thrilled if I'm wrong on that.

I think it would be clever to buy a used MS-8, get a good autotune out of it, then analyze its output with a laptop when fed a known input to see what it's doing to the signal, then replicate all that (minus the Logic7) in some other, more flexible, DSP and sell the MS-8. You could probably buy and sell the MS-8 for a wash. Then you could try manualy tuning the new DSP to make things even better, but always be able to revert back to that "MS-8 copy" config if you screwed things up (or to confirm that you'd made an improvement).


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## OKCarver (May 18, 2017)

Good idea, Thanks.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

It seems daunting at first but it didn't take long to get decent at it




JH1973 said:


> I'm going all in with a mini DSP.No beginner units for me.I have 0 experience with running active and am heading into the abyss!! Lycancatt,you'll need to PM me your cell number for panic calls!!! LOL


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm still a MS-8 believer. I think proper install goes a long way

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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Learning to tune isn't as hard as some people would have you believe. Most of it is just measuring. 
I've read though the bs in the ms8 thread of all sorts of little hacks and tricks to get it to work better.
By the time you've learned all these little manipulations you could have learned to just tune it your self.
Phase,levels, ta, eq. Not that hard.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Most of those tricks aren't needed. I think the most useful one is "kaigoss method" ....i don't suggest any others

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## josby (May 8, 2011)

OKCarver said:


> So just wondering, is the JBL MS-8 still the NOOB autotune DSP champion. Or have any new additions unseated it.


The only new DSP's I'm aware of that are currently in-production that have an autotune are the Helix ones (see attached doc). But I haven't seen any opinions on whether it works well or not. It's interesting that they have you move the mic the entire time it's doing its measurements, unlike the MS-8 where you measure from six positions around your head.


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

josby said:


> The only new DSP's I'm aware of that are currently in-production that have an autotune are the Helix ones (see attached doc). But I haven't seen any opinions on whether it works well or not. It's interesting that they have you move the mic the entire time it's doing its measurements, unlike the MS-8 where you measure from six positions around your head.




I assume you need the MTK-1 for this function?


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Audison has one but it's a dealer option


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Most of those tricks aren't needed. I think the most useful one is "kaigoss method" ....I don't suggest any others


Agree completely, I did not use any tricks when using an MS8 and it sounded great. It's a great unit and I think looked down upon because of it being autotune, when in all honesty for a lot of people it works and works well. Honestly the only reason I sold mine was that used prices were really spiking at the time and I wanted to learn how to tune manually. 

Learning to tune to that 90% or 75% or whatever percent is not that difficult, mostly just time consuming. I have read it many times on here but "trust your ears" really is worth repeating, if your system sounds good to you, then sit back and enjoy it. If you want to get that last little bit to take you to a 100% perfect tune, then you are either going to have to take it to someone or I suspect spend a huge amount of time learning and tweaking.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

I had a hell of a time with the MS-8. It would boost the sub or be to low. It would have the center to far to the passenger side, basically at the pillar. It boosted the big hole I have on the passenger side 10db over almost an entire octave. 

But once I figured out how to trick it it was golden. Absolutely perfect. Better then I could have done myself with my old Bit 1 with a more complicated setup that had more potential. 
I would have got rid of it last year when I was having issues but I couldn't at the time. 
My patience paid off


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## Elektra (Feb 4, 2013)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Most of those tricks aren't needed. I think the most useful one is "kaigoss method" ....i don't suggest any others
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




Kaigoss? 


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## josby (May 8, 2011)

Elektra said:


> I assume you need the MTK-1 for this function?


It appears that it can use any microphone as long as Windows sees it as a mic. But it doesn't appear to have any provision for loading a calibration file. The doc shows using an MTK-1, but specifically mentions that's "an example" so I think you could use other mics.


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## josby (May 8, 2011)

Elektra said:


> Kaigoss?


Instead of making one MS-8 output a sub, you instead run your subs from the outputs that drive your front mids. This bypasses difficulties the MS-8 has setting sub volume in some cars/configurations.

It requires the amp for your sub and mids have a crossover to split the signal.

MS-8 bass tune is great in one of my cars but crap in the other no matter what I've tried, so I'm going to try Kaigoss soon.


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

OKCarver said:


> So just wondering, is the JBL MS-8 still the NOOB autotune DSP champion. Or have any new additions unseated it. Simple 2-way setup with no prior DSP experience. Is my understanding this unit could get you 90% of the way to audio nirvana easy peasy.


For total noobs yeah the ms-8 is still king imho (or even ms-2).
But for noobs+ there are some options from the home audio world with room corrections: not real auto-tune but more semi-auto with APL1 and Dirac.
Semi-auto since you need another device for a pre-tune with at least XO, levels and TA (could be with HU, dsp, passive combo).

Good things is, with a basic tune you already get a very nice improvement.
So you can easily test, adjust and learn on long term with different pre-tunes, while still enjoying it everyday.
And then once you get to a better base, they are absolutely incredible.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

No idea where I'll go next with processors but I definitely want APL in my chain

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## OKCarver (May 18, 2017)

I am really starting to think this may be a good fit for me. Question though, does it have enough flexibility to say set the x-overs at 5000Hz at 12dB for tweets and the mids at 3200Hz at 6dB/octave for example? Or is this type of flexibility where I need to learn how to use the Mosconi? What exactly are it's major limitations?


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

OKCarver said:


> I am really starting to think this may be a good fit for me. Question though, does it have enough flexibility to say set the x-overs at 5000Hz at 12dB for tweets and the mids at 3200Hz at 6dB/octave for example? Or is this type of flexibility where I need to learn how to use the Mosconi? What exactly are it's major limitations?


MS-8? Nope, XO points and slopes are symmetric.
But it's not that important because it’s only the acoustic crossover that you define here. The result will be a combination of probably different electric crossover, fir and iir filters to get close to that target.

It has some limitations since it’s only 8 channels, but for 2 way + sub it’s perfect.
And only 5 min to test a bunch of different config.


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## OKCarver (May 18, 2017)

Thanks, looks like I need to do a little more research. I did find a MS-8 thread, it's HUGE. Wish it was just as easy to find an actual MS-8.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Someone was selling 2 of them in the classifieds a few days ago, might be worth checking in there.


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

OKCarver said:


> Thanks, looks like I need to do a little more research. I did find a MS-8 thread, it's HUGE. Wish it was just as easy to find an actual MS-8.


Oh yes the ms8 thread is just too big, this one is better: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/98699-jbl-ms-8-faq.html

And someone made a summary in pdf, somewhere here on diyma.
But honestly, the jbl manual itself should be enough.


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## josby (May 8, 2011)

OKCarver said:


> Wish it was just as easy to find an actual MS-8.












I'm hoarding them all


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## OKCarver (May 18, 2017)

Nice!! josby now that's a real stash!!


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## KillerBox (Jan 7, 2011)

josby said:


> I'm hoarding them all


I don't blame you! I have bought 3 spares myself until something better comes along. I love the way the MS8 sounds in full 7.1 surround sound.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

Alpine's processor (PXA-H800) does autotune as well thanks to "imprint"... AND it can get much more advanced in manual mode. worth a consideration if you feel like manual mode would interest you in the future.

Also one of the few that can do true center channel.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I have one, I think it's king if you are an uber driver and do the calibration for the back seat. Your passengers might really dig it. 
It's the only processor I've used and absolutely love it. Maybe I just don't know what I'm missing. 

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