# Intergrating a computer in...



## InfiniteHigh (Dec 30, 2009)

I started thinking last night about putting a computer in my car. So i'm now in the process of finding out what all I would have to do and decided between making it an actual pc in my car or a laptop dock station. Anyhow.. what would be cool way to intergrate the computer into the cd reciever so that instead of using the cd player it self I could use the computer to control all the cd players functions, equalizers, and play music off the pc or laptop? Or is there a way I could just use the pc or dock laptop as the headunit?


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

A website like mp3car.com is a great place to start. I am looking at my options now as well, and, it's a matter of
what you value most, whether to use a touchscreen in-dash to use the pc as a head unit, or to aux in to a traditional
head unit. I would be looking to use the pc as a head unit. In short, for a full pc system, you would need:

-touchscreen(/keyboard/mouse maybe) or monitor/keyboard/mouse (not as user friendly)
-motherboard
-processor
-memory
-PC case/enclosure
-DC-DC power supply/power management unit
-extras you want- optical drive, wireless card/USB device, bluetooth, replacement sound card or video card, etc

I'm no expert on the subject, but good luck getting all your info to make the best selection.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

I considered building a carputer when I was an IT director in 2007. The only thing that worries me is heat, humidity, and the rough automotive environment killing hard drives and LCDs. I know there is SSD technology now, but, those hard drives cost a fortune.

Of course, supporting 120 laptops in July and August for the traveling audit staff convinced me that a carputer was not worth the trouble. The accountants would leave their laptops in the vehicles on hot sunny days, and either the LCD would fail OR the hard drives would die. I am certain results will vary depending on the climate where one lives. With temperatures averaging between 80 and 100 degrees on hot summer days with humidity in the 90% or higher range, I just don't see delicate computers providing me with trouble free entertainment.


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## InfiniteHigh (Dec 30, 2009)

Thanks for the link OSN.

And to Chris thats why I was thinking kind of making a docking station for a laptop. That way its removable but still close to having a pc actually in your car im just not sure how i would make the docking station connect to the headunit. lol


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

ChrisB said:


> I considered building a carputer when I was an IT director in 2007. The only thing that worries me is heat, humidity, and the rough automotive environment killing hard drives and LCDs. I know there is SSD technology now, but, those hard drives cost a fortune.
> 
> Of course, supporting 120 laptops in July and August for the traveling audit staff convinced me that a carputer was not worth the trouble. The accountants would leave their laptops in the vehicles on hot sunny days, and either the LCD would fail OR the hard drives would die. I am certain results will vary depending on the climate where one lives. With temperatures averaging between 80 and 100 degrees on hot summer days with humidity in the 90% or higher range, I just don't see delicate computers providing me with trouble free entertainment.


I've been running PCs in the car in some shape or form since 1999. I never had a hard drive fail. I don't really know why. They say vibration's a killer. I'm starting to rethink that old chestnut.

Temperature is an issue. Choose your components wisely. I use an energy efficient AMD 45w CPU, and my processing doesn't exceed 25%. I built an open case and mounted the hard drive away from the board. I don't run into overheating problems anymore. It's about energy efficiency and airflow.

Cold is actually the bigger problem. Hard drives tend to not function below about 17 degrees Fahrenheit. I've found that Seagate drives tend to do a few degrees better than WD and Maxtor, from my personal experience. Furthermore, many (most?) AMD chips are coldbugged, meaning they won't work below about 28 degrees fahrenheit. This is my biggest problem. In the winter, I'd have to let the computer warm up for about 90 seconds and then reboot it. It's a *****. I'd go Intel if I had it to do all over again.

BTW, I've been running the same touchscreen in the car since '03 or so, so no real issues there.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Don't get me wrong though because if I can figure out a way to run a carputer in addition to my Alpine CDA-9887, I would do it in a heart beat. I just refuse to have a computer as my sole source of in-car entertainment because I know it will come back to haunt me... Usually when I have a 6 to 8 hour drive ahead of me.


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## Lucidpyro (Apr 22, 2010)

I always thought about doing this in a car but held off because of the reasons mentioned above. After seeing some of the iPad installs I think that would fill all of the needs I would have except for storage past 64GB and being tied into the Apple ecosystem.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Lucidpyro said:


> I always thought about doing this in a car but held off because of the reasons mentioned above. After seeing some of the iPad installs I think that would fill all of the needs I would have except for storage past 64GB and being tied into the Apple ecosystem.


An ultra mobile PC running a graphic user interface specifically designed for a car environment and molded into the dash with the battery relocated to an area with an acceptable temp range will put an iPad to shame any day of the week.

It seems like the only thought that goes into an iPad in the car is "oouu how cool would it be to put an iPad in the car".

_This_ is a non head unit specific head unit. (You can also get them in a larger screen).


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## Lucidpyro (Apr 22, 2010)

t3sn4f2 said:


> An ultra mobile PC running a graphic user interface specifically designed for a car environment and molded into the dash with the battery relocated to an area with an acceptable temp range will put an iPad to shame any day of the week.
> 
> It seems like the only thought that goes into an iPad in the car is "oouu how cool would it be to put an iPad in the car".
> 
> ...


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

t3sn4f2 said:


> An ultra mobile PC running a graphic user interface specifically designed for a car environment and molded into the dash with the battery relocated to an area with an acceptable temp range will put an iPad to shame any day of the week.
> 
> It seems like the only thought that goes into an iPad in the car is "oouu how cool would it be to put an iPad in the car".
> 
> _This_ is a non head unit specific head unit. (You can also get them in a larger screen).


Ooh, Newegg has them:

Newegg.com - Viliv X70EX PRE US Black Intel Atom 1.33GHz 7" WSVGA 1GB Memory 32GB SSD Netbook

Newegg.com - Viliv S5 Premium 3GP Tablet PC Intel Atom Z520(1.33GHz) 4.8" Wide SVGA 1GB Memory 32GB SSD HDD


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

ChrisB said:


> Ooh, Newegg has them:
> 
> Newegg.com - Viliv X70EX PRE US Black Intel Atom 1.33GHz 7" WSVGA 1GB Memory 32GB SSD Netbook
> 
> Newegg.com - Viliv S5 Premium 3GP Tablet PC Intel Atom Z520(1.33GHz) 4.8" Wide SVGA 1GB Memory 32GB SSD HDD


That X70 looks nice. Funny how they advertise it with Streetdeck on it also.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Pretty cool, but if you can't do audio processing on it, then its functionality is pretty limited, IMO.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Edited to post below.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Lucidpyro said:


> Pretty cool little device there, looks like it would work very well in a car. You still pay a slight premium vs an iPad have difference in cost and about the same storage capacities. And I don't think I would want a iPad in a car for the "cool" factor, it just works well in that area because it was designed to be used with your fingers and has GPS, video, and MP3 apps built in. I think the iPad is actually a little big for a car though, that UMPC you linked is better designed for mobile spaces.



That's my whole point though, it doesn't do well in that area. It's meant to be closer to the user and to even be used with one finger from each hand. Not at arms length at a typical dash distance. The icons and text are too small. There aren't multiple source display on the screen like there is on a carpc frontend or an aftermarket head unit. You're in iPod mode and thats that, you want gps you need to get out of ipod open gps and all you can do is vol up down. It's not an "automotive head unit graphic user interface". 

The battery and who know what else is going to fail much sooner from being mounted inside in in the hotter area of the car. The iPad is an enclosed PC with passive that has a maximum reccomended temp while using of 95 degrees F. Now imagine mounting and using it INSIDE an enclosed area that WILL reach into the 140's. Also, the battery is not user replaceable without soldering skills and tools. I don't think a $20 two temp soldering iron from radio shack will be useful here.

There isn't that much of a cost savings going with an ipad either, a carpc with similar features will run about the same. 

The one thing that the ipad has over anything else out there is the screen. If it's anything like the iPhone in the sunlight then its a winner. I'd buy one just for the screen if there was a way to hack it into a vga touchscreen display. A quality screen of lesser caliber, size, and features will cost you the same as an iPad.


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## mda185 (Dec 14, 2006)

I am on my 3rd home built car PC and I would never go back to a standard head unit. Replacing your head unit with a PC is very feasible but you have to find suitable hardware and software for this to work. 

A very cost effective way to integrate a car PC is to use an older Dell Latitude D410 with a docking station. these are compact laptops with 12" screens but they came with Intel Centrino processors which offer decent performance without running too hot. I picked one up on Ebay for $75 with a broken LCD. Fully functional D410's go for $150-200. A docking station was another $30. This generation of Dell docking station is very easy to hack into to wire up a remote turn-on switch. A used 12 volt power adapter was $30 also. The major expense is a decent 7" touch screen monitor. I spent $500 on a daylight readable monitor with a transreflective screen. My previous builds used cheaper, regular LCD monitors and they looked too washed out for me in direct sunlight.

Once you have the laptop or PC, you need an FM tuner. A solution that has worked very well for me is a HD Tuner that was made by Visteon several years ago. They never sold well and show up on Ebay as surplus goods now. A member of the MP3Car Forum (Mitch JS) makes a cable and software that enables control of this tuner from a PC. There are newer FM tuners available for Car PC use that may be superior but I have no experience with them.

The third major concern is front end software that makes the Car PC user friendly in a touch screen environment. Two of the best are Ride Runner and Centrafuse. RR is free but has a steeper learning curve and requires more effort to set it up. The developers are constantly improving it and is a very polished front end at this point. I am amazed that they still give it away. Centrafuse is much easier to install and set up and has a superior interface for browsing your music collection. It is reasonably priced at about $65 for the basic software and $125 for a package that includes navigation. The Nav package is not considered to be state of the art and you are probably better off with Garmin Mobile PC software instead. I have spent many hours with both interfaces and prefer the ease of use of Centrafuse. For me, the principle advantage of RR is that it will work with Foobar 2000 as the music player in the background. Foobar bypasses the Windows mixer and is capable of much better sound quality if you have a good sound card with device drivers that are compatible with ASIO.

I realize I just hit you with a ton of information digested down to a few paragraphs. If you are interested and want to learn more, go to MP3Car Forum and start searching and reading. The information content is high and the members are friendly to newcomers. They do not have many experts on sound quality.

If you go down this path, you will probably end up spending as much as a new Ipad but the end result is much more powerful in terms of music storage, expansion capability, and software options. You will also be free of the tyranny of Itunes and Apple's tight control of apps. I have an Iphone but I don't like Apple's way of forcing you to patronize them for software and music. My Iphone is unlocked, I use it on another GSM network, and I manage my music with a package called Media Monkey.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

mda185 said:


> I am on my 3rd home built car PC and I would never go back to a standard head unit. Replacing your head unit with a PC is very feasible but you have to find suitable hardware and software for this to work.
> 
> A very cost effective way to integrate a car PC is to use an older Dell Latitude D410 with a docking station. these are compact laptops with 12" screens but they came with Intel Centrino processors which offer decent performance without running too hot. I picked one up on Ebay for $75 with a broken LCD. Fully functional D410's go for $150-200. A docking station was another $30. This generation of Dell docking station is very easy to hack into to wire up a remote turn-on switch. A used 12 volt power adapter was $30 also. The major expense is a decent 7" touch screen monitor. I spent $500 on a daylight readable monitor with a transreflective screen. My previous builds used cheaper, regular LCD monitors and they looked too washed out for me in direct sunlight.
> 
> ...


FYI, WDM drivers (ie Waveout and Directsound) can be identical with regard to SQ as ASIO. Plus, if you get a compatible soundcard like an EMU-0404PCI, you will be able to control the cards own DSP mixer functions like vol and mute with a frontend like Centrafuse (I've tried it, it worked). 

Going that route will also give you digital volume control that does not degrade the audio at all, unlike the XP WAVE slider. You also don't get zipper noise when changing the volume and you get a soft mute.

Here's a comparison measurement I did of WDM versus ASIO.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio-sq-forum/78835-asio-vs-drm-compatible-carpc-frontend-friendly-e-mu-directsound.html


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## mda185 (Dec 14, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> FYI, WDM drivers (ie Waveout and Directsound) can be identical with regard to SQ as ASIO. Plus, if you get a compatible soundcard like an EMU-0404PCI, you will be able to control the cards own DSP mixer functions like vol and mute with a frontend like Centrafuse (I've tried it, it worked).
> 
> Going that route will also give you digital volume control that does not degrade the audio at all, unlike the XP WAVE slider. You also don't get zipper noise when changing the volume and you get a soft mute.
> 
> Here's a comparison measurement I did of WDM versus ASIO.


Thanks for the link to your comparison. I am very interested in this. Did you do anything special to get Centrafuse to bypass the Windows mixer and use the DSP functions on the EMU card? I was told by tech support on Centrafuse forum that the current release uses Windows mixer and the only way around that is to write custom drivers for the sound card. 

Do you know if the USB version of the EMU0404 functions identically? If I use this with my laptop install, I have to use USB or PCMCIA interface.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

mda185 said:


> Thanks for the link to your comparison. I am very interested in this. Did you do anything special to get Centrafuse to bypass the Windows mixer and use the DSP functions on the EMU card? I was told by tech support on Centrafuse forum that the current release uses Windows mixer and the only way around that is to write custom drivers for the sound card.
> 
> Do you know if the USB version of the EMU0404 functions identically? If I use this with my laptop install, I have to use USB or PCMCIA interface.


EMU cards with patchmix DSP software mixers (ie 0404PCI and 1212M) work like a like computer inside your computer. They interface with the windows API to have the windows sliders control it's DSP slider (master volume and mute function only). Special soundcard drivers I guess?

Directsound (ie WAVE) from any app including centra will be sent to the patchmix mixer to be manipulated how you like (ie analog out, s/pdif/ or WAVE in to record)

As far as I know EMU does not do anything with the windows API other then interface it's controls into it. DRM audio content is sent out to the mixer just fine and the wav slider in the advanced sound tab still works. 

I was able to get centra to work just by picking it in the device list in centra and then disabling all the sound processing features in centra so that the emu patchmix would uses its own LOG volume and soft mute (minus the zipper noise). After that, the vol up/down button and mute worked fine. I didn't test any other options like fader or balance though (didn't need them).

The 0404 USB is different because it does not have the patchmix dsp, everything except some things (ie digital sync, sample rate, etc.) is analog controlled. So I don't think it would work since the main output vol control is not software controlled.

From that link I posted you can see that whatever bad things are said about the XP API do not apply with that card since I played the RMAA test file through winamp and WMP directsound and routed it back into directsound with patchmix in order for RMAA to record the file. My version of RMAA does not support ASIO.

If I had another PC with a basic WDM digital output, I could run that output into my card and test it to be 100% positive kmixer doesn't mess with the sound. From what I've read, it only does when multiple audio streams are playing at once.

Hope that wasn't too confusing, it's late.


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