# Car PC guys, just wondering.



## chad

I'm wondering what is entailed in a car PC. For example does a screen that fits in a double DIN slot suck? How do you all deal with the keyboard/mouse? What playback software do you use? Do you have, say, WiFi to transfer files from the home storage to the car?

I'm getting sick of burning countless CD's and thinking it would be just grand to have it all there at once.

Do you all find it worth the troubles or is it just a damn fine gizmo that you are proud of and constantly dicking with?

How's the reliability? Any known issues?

Does this give me easy nav? Or is that a PITA (like I need nav in flatland Illinois  )

Is it cool to watch porn in the car, you know you've done it  

Do you keep RTA/tuning software in said PC?

I think that's about it for round 1 of questions.


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## Rudeboy

Sure you know about mp3car.com, but just making sure


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## chad

Rudeboy said:


> Sure you know about mp3car.com, but just making sure


Yeah but I have no idea where to start on there :blush: It's a pretty big site and I can't find a "Hey Noob's!" button.

Before I join up... how's the attitude there?

Do that watch porn in their car?


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## durwood

Muahahaha...welcome to the new revoultion. 

Hang on Chad I get you links and anser a few questions in a minute. I'm a mini mod over in the car-audio section and you will get stomped all over for asking those questions there.

I have a couple music videos that are risque.


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## Rudeboy

chad said:


> Yeah but I have no idea where to start on there :blush: It's a pretty big site and I can't find a "Hey Noob's!" button.
> 
> Before I join up... how's the attitude there?
> 
> Do that watch porn in their car?


I know exactly what you mean. I wouldn't mind a concise presentation myself. I haven't spent much time there but they seem OK. It's pretty much like diving into any other new technical area, takes a while before you can distinguish between big picture concepts and pissing contests. Add the usual priesthood of the geek stuff and it can be hard to get a handle on things.


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## durwood

Standard Newbie Sticky

Outline

These will get you started.

I'm going to answer a few questions for you at lunch in a few minutes.


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## Rudeboy

chad said:


> Do that watch porn in their car?


You need a heads up display for that


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## durwood

chad said:


> I'm wondering what is entailed in a car PC. For example does a screen that fits in a double DIN slot suck?


Depends on the brand and your version of "suck". Is it hard to read thigns ona 7" screen? Yes it makes life difficult for some programs.




> How do you all deal with the keyboard/mouse? What playback software do you use?


There are super mini keyboard options or smaller keyboards about the size of a visor or will fit in most gloveboxes. Wireless are ok, except they can eat through batteries and don't work so well during oh **** moments. Find a good "frontend". I like roadrunner. It will make using your touchscreen alot easier.



> Do you have, say, WiFi to transfer files from the home storage to the car?


I have wifi but rarely use it. I have used it at places like starbucks. If you want high speed internet while you are driving, get yourself a dataplan through your cell phone carrier and buy a card or access point. That is the super luxury of carpcs I haven;t done and probably won't although it can be good for traffic and gas station POI. I use an removable harddrive that I can dock in my home computer. USB thumb drives are good for quick transfers.



> Do you all find it worth the troubles or is it just a damn fine gizmo that you are proud of and constantly dicking with?


There are times I want to freaking hit it with a sledge hammer but most of the time it does what it is supposed to do. It really depends on getting the right combo of hardware. I have not had a regular HU for over 3 years now.



> How's the reliability? Any known issues?


I have only had an issue of crappy molex connectors and one harddrive failure as a result of said connectors. Also, the screen is a little slow in the cold, and might want to get a laptop hard drive just because of extreme cold temps will cause issues. THere are a few full size drives that are designed for automotive use, but they 2-3X$$$.



> Does this give me easy nav? Or is that a PITA (like I need nav in flatland Illinois  )


Iguidance3.0 UMPC version (nice big buttons and user interface for a small screen), I think Version 4 is rolling out soon. Pretty much smae look as a Tom Tom screen. The other favorite is Microsofts Mappoint. Get yourself a SIrfIII Usb gps antenna. Iguidance sells a bundle for $120-software and GPS receiver, probably the best combo in my book.



> Is it cool to watch porn in the car, you know you've done it


All your friends will think you are the sh%t!



> Do you keep RTA/tuning software in said PC?


I plan to but my mic preamp needs AC juice.  I need to find a way to wire it into the car without an inverter or buy a Rolls preamp instead.


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## sqkev

For example does a screen that fits in a double DIN slot suck?
-Most 7" screens will fit the double DIN slot with some modifications to the casing of the screen, the screen itself will fit.

How do you all deal with the keyboard/mouse?
-While you can use the keyboard and mouse through usb connections, the easier way would be using a touchscreen lcd. I never recall needing to use the keyboard (except for setting up programs)

What playback software do you use?
- most supported playback software is probably winamp

Do you have, say, WiFi to transfer files from the home storage to the car?
- if you have a wireless router at home, a $15 wireless card will do the job. I don't need it though. A portable harddrive makes more sense for me.

Do you all find it worth the troubles or is it just a damn fine gizmo that you are proud of and constantly dicking with?
- Once you've done enough trouble shooting and familiarize with all the advance softwares for audio processing, you'll find it all worth it. Forget the DEQX, your cpu and a few programs are much more powerful.

How's the reliability? Any known issues?
- Most people have trouble with the power supply issues, once you get that figured out, you're home. I use dsatx and it serves me real well. Well, there are still a few things I need to adjust though.

Does this give me easy nav? Or is that a PITA (like I need nav in flatland Illinois  ) 
- Navigation through iGuidance is probably the best in the industry. I really like it. It's fast and accurate.

Is it cool to watch porn in the car, you know you've done it  
- No porn here. 

Do you keep RTA/tuning software in said PC?
- Join our discussion on the pc xo thread, I think you'll like it. I'm still in the testing phase, the car isn't done yet. BUt, I'm getting some measurements done and getting some DRC done, it's neat.


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## durwood

Chad-so are you computer savvy? It's not required but will help in your patience of dealing with a carpc. Nice thing about car pcs-there are alot of things you can change/upgrade to tailor it specifically for yourself.


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## chad

durwood said:


> Chad-so are you computer savvy? It's not required but will help in your patience of dealing with a carpc. Nice thing about car pcs-there are alot of things you can change/upgrade to tailor it specifically for yourself.


Yeah I'm computer savvy. it just seems like a good idea. I really need to rethink my install and how much space it will consume. I imagine the planning stage is the longest. It looks really cool and is something I may start learning about very soon.

Chad


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## t3sn4f2

If you want 2 channel stereo out for music only, save yourself the time, money, and trouble and get an IDA-X001 with an iPod video. I plan on running one mounted in the trunk for short RCA runs to a processor (probably an MS-8) and then integrating its LCD into the factory head unit LCD location. Then tap into the remotes buttons and relocating them on the OEM headunit. Then relocate the faceplate to function as a mounted fully funtioning remote in the cabin for deep menu navigation and just use the standard funtions like track up/down and volume thru the OEM head and steering wheel buttons. Fully stealth high quality music server (that plays DRM tracks)


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## pwnt by pat

My carpc is teh coolest thing I've done to the car and always gets wows. it's very easy to use. install was fairly complicated but not overwhelming. Bugs take time to solve but if you're good with pcs, it's no big thing. I use toslink output from my soundcard to the h701 input and control the processer via the c701. Navi is one click away, as well as radio, cd rom (if I had one installed), media, weather (via wireless internet), etc. It's an all around good system to use. touchscreens are very nice.

spacewise, I was able to build a case out of 3/8" ply that takes up a slightly larger space than a 6 disk cd-changer and fit it in the oem cd-changer slot, although it's being moved as I work on my false floor every night.


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## MarkZ

You've already gotten some replies from our resident experts. I'll give you my take...



chad said:


> I'm wondering what is entailed in a car PC. For example does a screen that fits in a double DIN slot suck?


My Xenarc 7" touchscreen is in a double-din slot. But it was slightly taller than the double-din standard, but fortunately my car had a removable trim piece above the radio. If you have some wiggle room, you may want to consider one of the non-double-din units and fabricate a trim ring. A lot of the double-din screens are either expensive or have crappy inputs. IMO, you want VGA.



> How do you all deal with the keyboard/mouse?


Touchscreen and the windows built-in on-screen keyboard. Most of my control is via USB remote control though (CompUSA sells a nice credit-card size one).



> What playback software do you use?


Winamp! Low overhead, good controls. Has a double-size feature so that it's big enough for a touchscreen, has "global hotkeys" so you can assign remote control functions to do virtually everything, you can control playlist title font size so it's big enough. Also has an EQ so you can do some crude adjustment on a track by track basis.



> Do you have, say, WiFi to transfer files from the home storage to the car?


Run a USB hub up to the front of the car somewhere. Then you can plug in whatever USB devices you want (I leave wifi unplugged during regular usage just because it adds to startup time). Thumb drive, Wifi, laptop transfers, etc.



> Do you all find it worth the troubles or is it just a damn fine gizmo that you are proud of and constantly dicking with?


I hate dicking with stuff and I still use it, so there's your answer. 



> How's the reliability? Any known issues?


Lots of issues. Extreme cold, the hard drive doesn't want to work. Extreme heat without good heat dissipation (which can be loud if you use lots of fans -- another issue), and you'll get random bluescreens. Interestingly, I ripped out the hard drive that I had been using in the car for over a year and it had zero bad sectors, so it seems that vibration doesn't matter as much as people think. Anyway, I like the Seagate hard drives because they handle cold weather and frost better. With the other hard drives I used, I would run into problems booting below about 17 degrees. It would have to warm up first. With the Seagate, it never had any problems and it got damned cold here this year. Check the drive specs before buying.



> Does this give me easy nav? Or is that a PITA (like I need nav in flatland Illinois  )


I think it's a PITA, but that's because I know I'm not using the best equipment to do it. I'm using the Earthmate-Delorme combo which is terribly slow to load and unreliable to find satellites.



> Is it cool to watch porn in the car, you know you've done it


On the to-do list. Gotta pass an 80yr old couple with it going. Consider it altruism. It may spark something that they haven't felt in 20 years. 



> Do you keep RTA/tuning software in said PC?


I actually use my laptop for my RTAing, but I do have TrueRTA on the car computer to generate the noise for it. It probably wouldn't be difficult to pull off if I chose a soundcard with phantom power.

Word of advice about sound cards. For whatever reason, the digital output on the motherboard's on-board sound sounds AWFUL. I can't understand why, but it's clearly garbled and has all kinds of funny "digital" artifacts like what you hear on a bad mp3. So your best bet may be to use something external via USB or firewire.


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## t3sn4f2

CarPC guys.....how many seconds from the point I turn the key till I am hearing music?


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## MarkZ

t3sn4f2 said:


> CarPC guys.....how many seconds from the point I turn the key till I am hearing music?


For me? 15 seconds. By the time I'm backed out of the driveway and moving forward, it's set to go. But that's because I run windows 98! You guys running XP are sca-rewed! 

The workaround for XP is to have your computer go into hibernation when you turn the key off. Then when you come back out it loads fast. I tried it, but whenever I'd leave the car off for a couple days I'd come out to a dead battery. Some of the newer power supplies though will do a hard shutoff on your PC if your battery voltage gets below 11v (unfortunately for my car, that's too little too late).


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## pwnt by pat

Right, with XP and hibernation, you can have music going in 5-10 seconds depending on your hardware and software configuration. 256mb is the best amount of ram you have for fast resumes and overall good activity. With the new dc-dc powersupplies with integrated startup-shutdown controllers, no dead batteries even with hibernation. 

I have music about 10-15 seconds of hitting the ignition.


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## sqkev

the downfall to my setup is that I rely on Console. I need to load my settings everytime I want to listen to music. From ignition to playing music, it takes about 1 minute or so. Keep in mind that my windows xp is stock, not skimmed down in any way and running only 512mb. I can skim down windows to run faster and start off from hibernate, but I haven't set that yet. It would be significantly faster.


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## addissimo

sqkev said:


> the downfall to my setup is that I rely on Console. I need to load my settings everytime I want to listen to music. From ignition to playing music, it takes about 1 minute or so. Keep in mind that my windows xp is stock, not skimmed down in any way and running only 512mb. I can skim down windows to run faster and start off from hibernate, but I haven't set that yet. It would be significantly faster.


I was just going to ask about that.

So each time you start your computer do you have to load console and your setup file manually, or do you have it automated?

It seems like the way to go if you could get rid of console, or make it more efficient.


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## thehatedguy

What processors are you guys using?

I was looking at building a car PC at one point using a Via Epia M10000G board and processor. But I was worried that it would take too long to boot. 

All I want is a music server and a CD player for competitions.


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## sqkev

addissimo said:


> I was just going to ask about that.
> 
> So each time you start your computer do you have to load console and your setup file manually, or do you have it automated?
> 
> It seems like the way to go if you could get rid of console, or make it more efficient.


I'm not about to get rid of Console anytime soon, it's an essential software in my system and I do not know of any other software out there doing what Console does. (I've gotten myself to get used to it as well)

I'm still in the testing phase (in the car though, not bench testing so I have no keyboard), hence, I'm not too concerned at all about how fast it takes to start up. But, the proper way would be to load Console and its settings once, and go to hibernate. After coming back from hibernation, the settings are still there and you should be fine.


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## sqkev

thehatedguy said:


> What processors are you guys using?
> 
> I was looking at building a car PC at one point using a Via Epia M10000G board and processor. But I was worried that it would take too long to boot.
> 
> All I want is a music server and a CD player for competitions.


I'm running a 3.2gig p4 D celeron right now, but I'll be switching to an athlon +4400 for slightly better performance (on the testbench at home). The athlon should consume less power as well.

BTW, if you compete, is a pc allowed? You'll take competition to a whole new level if you get the right softwares.


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## thehatedguy

Yeah, you can use a car pc provided you can turn it off and on fast enough...was thinking it was 1 minute power up/down.


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## MarkZ

Strip down your XP to the bare essentials and you could probably do it under a minute by using hibernate. But like I said in my last post, the M1-ATX power supply shuts down at 5 minutes at 11v or less. My car won't start at that point. I suppose I could just modify the circuit (probably just a comparator driving a one-shot or something).

Since I run Windows 98, the only feature I don't get is hibernation. Everything else is fast, and that's with only 700MHz and 256MB. And my computer boots faster than some of the XP computers that hibernate. Really, I see no reason to run WinXP on a car PC, unless people are using some sort of software that requires it.


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## sqkev

MarkZ said:


> Strip down your XP to the bare essentials and you could probably do it under a minute by using hibernate. But like I said in my last post, the M1-ATX power supply shuts down at 5 minutes at 11v or less. My car won't start at that point. I suppose I could just modify the circuit (probably just a comparator driving a one-shot or something).
> 
> Since I run Windows 98, the only feature I don't get is hibernation. Everything else is fast, and that's with only 700MHz and 256MB. And my computer boots faster than some of the XP computers that hibernate. Really, I see no reason to run WinXP on a car PC, unless people are using some sort of software that requires it.


You're absolutely correct Mark, it makes sense to run 98 for quick power up/power down. But, once you consider the applications that we need for raw audio processing, xp is required and there's no other ways around to it. The newer hardwares require at least XP as well. Some applications requires directX and .net too, I'm not even sure if 98 support that.

thehatedguy,
if you can get away with hibernation (if the judge don't know about it or if that's not stated in the rules), you sure can get away with 1 min power up/down.


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## MarkZ

sqkev said:


> You're absolutely correct Mark, it makes sense to run 98 for quick power up/power down. But, once you consider the applications that we need for raw audio processing, xp is required and there's no other ways around to it. The newer hardwares require at least XP as well. Some applications requires directX and .net too, I'm not even sure if 98 support that.


Which apps specifically? Console? Have you tried running it under 98 to see if it would run faster?

By the way, I'm pretty positive you can use directx and possibly .net on Win98. I think I had to download it for something (the m-audio card maybe?).


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## sqkev

MarkZ said:


> Which apps specifically? Console? Have you tried running it under 98 to see if it would run faster?
> 
> By the way, I'm pretty positive you can use directx and possibly .net on Win98. I think I had to download it for something (the m-audio card maybe?).


That new DRC program I posted on the pc xo thread requires .net (the program is very good btw, you should try it ), and I honestly don't know how compatible .net is with 98. I also use iGuidance and it won't run under 98, so 98 was off my list.

As far as console and performance on my computer, I can load console and all vsts running with winamp, the cpu would hover around 60-70%, which isn't a problem. I don't think it would run any faster in 98.


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## MarkZ

sqkev said:


> That new DRC program I posted on the pc xo thread requires .net (the program is very good btw, you should try it ), and I honestly don't know how compatible .net is with 98. I also use iGuidance and it won't run under 98, so 98 was off my list.
> 
> As far as console and performance on my computer, I can load console and all vsts running with winamp, the cpu would hover around 60-70%, which isn't a problem. I don't think it would run any faster in 98.


Sounds like you've got loadup time issues though with console.

Also, I'm curious what the minimum (within reason) processor speed I could get away with in order to run console, etc. I'm butting up against a space issue with mine, so if I could use Win98 and use a smaller/cooler/slower processor then it would work better.


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## sqkev

MarkZ said:


> Sounds like you've got loadup time issues though with console.
> 
> Also, I'm curious what the minimum (within reason) processor speed I could get away with in order to run console, etc. I'm butting up against a space issue with mine, so if I could use Win98 and use a smaller/cooler/slower processor then it would work better.


Console, by itself, is not a problem. It loads up quick, it's just that you have to manually open the settings that you saved everytime the program runs. Like I've mentioned, you can get away with that by going to hibernate everytime leaving the car. When you get back, Console and all settings are loaded and ready to go.

Mark, not to sound discouraging, but I don't think you can get away with decent processing even with a 2.4gig p4 (in this setup, I went with the minimal 9 vst plugins). Consider that Console is only a HOST for vsts, it's the vsts that eats up the CPU as you use them.

Chad, I'm sorry if we're going quite off-topic and not answering your questions directly, but I feel that the topic is still relevant to carpc and maybe it would benefit at least 1 person.


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## MarkZ

sqkev said:


> Console, by itself, is not a problem. It loads up quick, it's just that you have to manually open the settings that you saved everytime the program runs. Like I've mentioned, you can get away with that by going to hibernate everytime leaving the car. When you get back, Console and all settings are loaded and ready to go.
> 
> Mark, not to sound discouraging, but I don't think you can get away with decent processing even with a 2.4gig p4 (in this setup, I went with the minimal 9 vst plugins). Consider that Console is only a HOST for vsts, it's the vsts that eats up the CPU as you use them.
> 
> Chad, I'm sorry if we're going quite off-topic and not answering your questions directly, but I feel that the topic is still relevant to carpc and maybe it would benefit at least 1 person.


Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to run this stuff on my 700MHz machine. My ultimate goal is to put it all in a double din box. There's no question that it can be done -- the question is...when?  Basically, I need to wait for the fanless ITX boards to come out at the clock speed I'll need to run it. That's why my questions have been kinda pressing in that regard.


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## sqkev

MarkZ said:


> Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to run this stuff on my 700MHz machine. My ultimate goal is to put it all in a double din box. There's no question that it can be done -- the question is...when?  Basically, I need to wait for the fanless ITX boards to come out at the clock speed I'll need to run it. That's why my questions have been kinda pressing in that regard.


If you're really creative with installation, you can get away with micro atx into some tiny spaces in the trunk. I know I can, but I'm not keeping my car for long, that's why I'm not doing it. I really can't imagine the microatx setup much larger in size compare to your 2 dcxs though.


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## Nathan P

What about those shuttle little tiny pcs they like to use for HTPCs? Seems ideal.


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## Whiterabbit

FYI, every person who has ever tried a car PC besides me appears to be RABIDLY IN LOVE with the concept. HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST a car PC isnt a good idea, if you dont think its a good idea. Heres why they are terrible:




chad said:


> I'm wondering what is entailed in a car PC. For example does a screen that fits in a double DIN slot suck?


Needs to be very expensive. Major problems:

Non VGA monitors do not have the resolution needed to read text. It's simply too small.

Cheaper monitors are too dim to read during the day. Lots of development has gone into gamma adjustment to keep from blinding yourself at night but allowing yourself to see whats going on during the day. Because development tends to be from software weenies, it's time based rather than based on a digital input from the headlight switch. Thus, you have to constantly adjust the gamma correction time to compensate for the time of year, daylight savings, etc.

the touchscreen adapter is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, and that will change the readability as the overlay changes light transmittance, etc.



> How do you all deal with the keyboard/mouse?


mouse is usually exchanged for the touchscreen. some folks use mousetrack balls, others use non-pad based alternatives, but they are almost always used in addition to a touchscreen. 

I've only used a keyboard to enter in navigation addresses. Again from development, the aesthetic impossibility software geeks have to face when dealing with keyboards have forced them to develop on screen keyboards which now display on a 7 inch screen to type in artist names to sort through 400 gig of music, or try to enter destinations.

thats a safety hazard while driving! But don't tell that to a carPC enthusiast.

Did I mention TERIBBLE feedback when using a touchscreen? requires the user to take your eyes off the road completely to operate the touchscreen.

I hope you dont have fat fingers.

are you considering a carPC? dont you have a civic? I just put up a WTT thread for a keyboard visor. I want your OEM visor, Ill trade you for a laptop keyboard that is flushed into the drivers side visor. done.



> What playback software do you use?


plenty of front ends from MP3CAR.com. and they all suck. They are all IPOD control based, meaning if you don tlike the ipod control system, you are OUT OF LUCK. furthermore, all the development is done by software engineers who tend to add WAY TOO MUCH functionality to their car PC, such as burning utilities, internet explorer (HA! software engineers dont use internet explorer, its some bizzare alernative. what a benefit on the highway!), and it goes on, and on. You want JUST music and nav? tough. you have to deal with a whole mess of dead icons for disabled features. not aesthetically pleasing!



> Do you have, say, WiFi to transfer files from the home storage to the car?


I used a laptop. This is feasible, and im sure considered necessary for folks who make the permanent PC in the car solution. Probably the #1 driving force for putting internet in the car. yippie.



> Do you all find it worth the troubles or is it just a damn fine gizmo that you are proud of and constantly dicking with?


its a nightmare. the control system is a product engineers worst nightmare. Button mapping is horrible, and even when you go into it and try to re-develop your own front end to fix that abortion of over-displayed information and control, the feedback of a touchscreen doesnt exist and the whole use of the system should be considered a safety hazard. car PC's should be banned except the number of users is so small at the moment they cant possibly compete with bigger hitters like drinkers and cellphone users.



> How's the reliability? Any known issues?


plenty of known issues. the largest by far are supply voltage issues, timing for startup and the like. VOltage spikes damage long term stability. As does vibrations and temperature transients. Ask mistahsparkles about how temperature can affect hardware reliability.



> Does this give me easy nav? Or is that a PITA


All PC nav is designed for use with a 14" screen, not a 7" screen. displayed information is too small, and ALL SORTS of development on MP3car has arisen from the problems of using PC based nav in a car. on screen keyboards to enter destinations, button zoom features to increase button size and icon size. Can't compete with software written for small screens. The terrible in car use hides behind the map feature which is missing from many small screen navigation units, which display a left turn arrow instead of a routemap and car-representative icon. many of the enthusiasts WANT THAT MAP. consider it superior.

This has driven more than one enthusiast to put larger and larger screens in the car whom can get away with it. along with all the associated support equipment.



> Is it cool to watch porn in the car, you know you've done it


never done it, dunno.



> Do you keep RTA/tuning software in said PC?


never. I kept audio in the audio realm, and PC in the PC realm. interface is far too important to have to rely on such unreliable equipment with terrible mapping and feedback to control inferior sources (another can of worms to the PC enthusiast!).

one major reason I gave it all a shot was because my signal processor had rs232 computer control. but every processor that has this feature uses a controlscreen designed for use with a 14" laptop screen (do we see a unifying theme here?). TOTALLY unuseable in the car. I ended up snaking a USB line under the chair and tuning seperately, bypassing the 7" touchscreen.




Still want a car PC? you have a civic? I want your sunvisor. PM me, lets trade.

also expect the next two pages of posts addressing the problems I have addressed one by one to tell me why I am wrong, car PC's are great, etc.


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## Whiterabbit

in short, car PC's are not for caraudio enthusiasts. They are for PC enthusiasts who are also caraudio enthusiasts, trying to bring the two seperate hobbies together.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you wont find ONE car PC user who isnt also a PC enthusiast.


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## sqkev

Whiterabbit said:


> in short, car PC's are not for caraudio enthusiasts. They are for PC enthusiasts who are also caraudio enthusiasts, trying to bring the two seperate hobbies together.
> 
> I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you wont find ONE car PC user who isnt also a PC enthusiast.


I think you're quick to jump the gun there buddy! 

Although I do agree that the complexity and certain complications due to the hostile environment of the car, it certainly isn't something one can overcome when it comes to installing a pc in the car without being a pc enthusiast (or geek if that's what you're after  ). 

I was thoroughly excited what the PC can do in terms of processing after shinobiwan (from diyaudio.com) started his pc xo thread. IMO, it's much more than just running wireless in the car, viewing videos or playing pc games in the car. It's the processing power that attracted me and of course, the navigation and videos are bonuses. (who wouldn't like some videos on a long roadtrip for the kids?)


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## Whiterabbit

people are playing games now in the car? Have they added a "games" tab to roadrunner?

Oh Brother!


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## sqkev

Whiterabbit said:


> people are playing games now in the car? Have they added a "games" tab to roadrunner?
> 
> Oh Brother!


there was a skin that had games in it


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## MrBreakIt

Maybe this sounds trite, even misguided, but here goes. 

For a previous job, I was doing the road warrior thing, driving about 1000 miles a week all around the north east. I had an 86 Bronco, so spare room wasn't an issue. I had a HD mount for my laptop, with a nicely wired power supply (The same arrangement you see in todays police cars). Since I ended up with 2 laptops, I just left the one in the truck. I removed all programs that didn't need to be there, had a friend strip down the OS for faster load times, and kept in my Nav program - Delorme Street Atlas, at the time wired to a receiver on the dash. Nav, MP3's, DVD ability, internet via PCMCIA net card. Through the Northeast winter and summer, hill and dale, on and way the hell off road, truck stops, open windows in the rain - that Dell laptop never skipped a beat, made very little heat, almost no power draw. I had shortcuts on the desktop for 3 gamma settings, basically a day, dusk, night setting. I still have that laptop today, it still works. 

I know not of details of such I speak, but - Why not pick up a used 14" laptop from your favorite auction site, strip it down and use that to start? For about $600, you have a starting point. Todays mobile hard drives are punishable, the power supplies from 12V are about the size of a pack of twinkies. Small keyboard, relocatable DVD drives. It even has battery backup. Motherboard goes in the console, run all ports with cables to where ever. The front third of a laptop is usually battery, optical drive space and speakers anyway. Wasted space. Get freaky with a soldering iron and some ribbon cable. 

I could see the touchscreen thing being a headache of biblical proportions, so get a presentation pointer, like a mouse on a stick. Bad visual, sorry. Hand held thing that college professors and old school Star Trek wannabe's use. 

Dell has some pretty cool docking solutions for big business and educational purposes. Build a vertical dock in your console, setup so that it outputs to a seprate monitor. Close lid, drop in laptop, grab remote. Or fat finger the sketchy touch screen. 

I've always had big cars or trucks, never the lunchbox on wheels type. I worked a few years at a body shop and learned - go big and full framed. (For vehicles only, women are a different category). A 10 - 14 inch custom installed screen isn't that far off complication from some of the speaker installs you see here. Air bags, sub-caged dashes, mini cars and stuff cause problems, OK. But back to basics - use laptop stuff - it's built specifically for the abuse and size constraints. Just an idea, throwin it out there, see what comes back.


----------



## MarkZ

Whiterabbit said:


> also expect the next two pages of posts addressing the problems I have addressed one by one to tell me why I am wrong, car PC's are great, etc.


The reason you would expect that is because you know you're wrong. 

I use mine strictly for music. I don't use a frontend. I can read every word. And I never have to touch the touchscreen.

Describe a better solution. Who wants to fumble with CDs? I don't. I refuse to use that silly medium at home, in the car, at work, wherever. Who wants to head back to the trunk to adjust the left midrange EQ and tweak the phase by 15 degrees?


----------



## Whiterabbit

Reason I expect it is because I've been shouted down before when dissenting agasint anything that becomes a big fat forum bandwagon. regardless of the justification.

id say most of the people here have ways to control their signal processor up front.

I prefer CD's over mp3 because its a much easier "filesystem" to deal with from a "road distraction" perspective. so theres one person who wants to fumble with CD's!

ultimately, thats the #1 priority. "industrial design" trumps function and feature.


----------



## Abmolech

http://www.thermaltake.com/xaserCase/medialab/black/black.htm

use something like this for a front end.

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powermate/


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## durwood

Whiterabbit-

I can tell you tried a carpc a while ago. The advancements have been better. The power supply options were horrible 3-4 years ago. Now there are plenty of options that do not have issues with varying voltages in the car.

As far as the user interface and people doing things in the car they shouldn't be, that is another story. But come on, Alpine, pioneer, etc all have multimedia headunits. Those are just as a distraction as is a normal HU IMO. And yes, you still have to take your eyes off the road to change CD's. I can take my hand off my shifter and change tracks without even taking my eyes off the road via remote (Keyspan). I barely use the touchscreen, and when I need to my passenger does it for me.

If you don;t like that and have steering wheel controls, that can be integrated in a few ways (one includes the PAC SWI-X). There is a company that makes a car2pc adapter that plugs into your cd changer control on your factory HU and you can control via stock controls. I'm actually going one step further and wirining directly to my stock controls via a keyboard controller. Use your imagination, a carpc is not a plug and play for everyone.

Also hows is this touch screen interface for you? It's called Simplistique skin for Roadrunnerbecause it's not clutered full of useless buttons and such. If you can't hit these buttons ona 7" screen you have some serious fat fingers and need to go a on a diet.


















Streetdeck has a nice big easy interface too, but the cost is $200 with Mappoint nav software and ~$100 without nav software/

Startup time for me is <30 seconds. I hibernate XP, not suspend to RAM. I use an M2-ATX and just have it turn off after 45secs, screw that low voltage monitor crap.

sqkev-

save your settings in console and then take that file and throw it in your startup folder. Then console will reload on startup I believe.


----------



## durwood

Oh, and don't mind the BMW logo, you can put a Honda Logo or Clock in there instead.

Another good skin for roadrunner I have been watching develop is the FU skin.


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## durwood

markZ-

If you like just using Winamp, you can scale it even larger than doublesize if you are using version 5+.

Look under modern skins menu in prefs, then go to the "Scaling" section, click box that says " link all windows in all skins" and then adjust the slider until winamp is as big as you need it.


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## durwood

thehatedguy said:


> What processors are you guys using?
> 
> I was looking at building a car PC at one point using a Via Epia M10000G board and processor. But I was worried that it would take too long to boot.
> 
> All I want is a music server and a CD player for competitions.





thehatedguy said:


> Yeah, you can use a car pc provided you can turn it off and on fast enough...was thinking it was 1 minute power up/down.


A PC can be used, there is an mp3car member competing in MECA and USACI in the pro division that is doing not so bad. Her name is Jan and she has the RED golf that was on the cover of caraudio mag back in the spring-mar or april I think? I competed in SLAP in the Pro div with mine. Just read the rules, you can compete with a computer, but how it is powered (AC vs DC) may determine which group/level you have to compete in.

If you have it hibernate, it should be off in less than 30secs easy. If all you need it to do is play music, an M10000 will be plenty, that is what my first carpc was.


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## chad

I'm understanding the pitfalls and the attributes more. Climate-wise it goes from a heated garage to a heated garage daily. Space wise I'm hosed but I'm good at getting things in small spaces. I guess if the Alpine supported iRiver products I'd be set, I'm just sick of burning CD's, I'm an avid music collector so no original purchases go into the car. I can't bring myself into thge iPod revolution as I want to use MP3's/WAV's instead of the itunes defacto. I use a laptop with my music on it for live sound so I want to stick with one format. Maybe someday I'dd do th iPod thing, do they play standard MP3's yet?

The Wi Fi would only be for file transfer only, maybe sometimes a weather update but I do storm chasing in the truck. I just think it would be cool to park it in the garage and pull files down from Sandra (the big-gun (PC) with the audio on it) I have a routine for fresh CD's, they hit Sandra from the get-go.

How about Windows 2K? Faster than XP in terms of load time and more functional than 98 (although I am still a 98 lover) in terms of USB support and driver support.

This thread has become VERY informational.

Whiterabbit, I want to keep my stock visor for now, let me paruse another site and see if a ricer that has stripped their car for weight savings (because a visor weighs a TON you know) wants to sell me one cheap. This is where I get a lot of my interior parts, especially sail panels for tweeter trials 

Chad


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## durwood

Ipod supports regular mp3s. If all you want/need is access to a big music collection then I would go that route instead.

I think windows 2000 boots slower than XP. As someone mentioned earlier, there are programs out there to help you strip the XP install CD down to the bare essentials to make it boot even faster. I have seen some people report cold boot times ~15 secs.

I forgot to mention, if you really want to make sure you can read your vga screen in the sunlight, Transreflective is the way to go. Cost: $700 for 7" or 8" screen.


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## chad

durwood said:


> I forgot to mention, if you really want to make sure you can read your vga screen in the sunlight, Transreflective is the way to go. Cost: $700 for 7" or 8" screen.



My Itronics Go-Book has that and it's teh shizzle in full sunlight


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## MarkZ

Whiterabbit said:


> Reason I expect it is because I've been shouted down before when dissenting agasint anything that becomes a big fat forum bandwagon. regardless of the justification.


I wouldn't call it a forum bandwagon when you've only got about a half dozen people using it.



> id say most of the people here have ways to control their signal processor up front.


Which processor then? Maybe I'm not up on it, but I can't think of very good in-dash processors that don't cost a fortune. The H701? How do you control it? Or are you talking about these head unit solutions that are limited in their capabilities and number of channels? Trust me, if I could do what I do with a head unit, I'd rather do that. But to my knowledge, that sort of thing doesn't exist.



> I prefer CD's over mp3 because its a much easier "filesystem" to deal with from a "road distraction" perspective. so theres one person who wants to fumble with CD's!


Why do you keep assuming it's a road distraction? Because you weren't able to implement it correctly? I don't know why you're messing with typing in stuff. Doesn't make any sense. I press a single button on a remote control (without taking my eyes off the road) to load the directory, and then I single click the album I want and hit the big enter key. Back when I used to use CDs, I'd have to sit there and leaf through a CD book, look through the visor for one, or even reach the floor. Trust me, I'm operating a lot more safely than most people who use CDs.


----------



## pwnt by pat

Most people I've seen use carpcs with high end audio use the H701 processor and C701 controller. I've seen it piped into Audiocontrol processors and the p9 (but I forget how it's controlled). Any controller that has toslink or rca inputs can be used...

The m1000 is a good board, but I had trouble getting mine to play movies effectively, and it wasn't a codec issue.

The user on mp3car that competes is redgtivr6, I believe. She/they are going to be using pear audio cables though, so I don't know.....


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## thehatedguy

I know Jan, I was watching her go through the lanes at IASCA Finals last year...looked like they were having problems with the puter. Kind of turned me off right there.



durwood said:


> A PC can be used, there is an mp3car member competing in MECA and USACI in the pro division that is doing not so bad. Her name is Jan and she has the RED golf that was on the cover of caraudio mag back in the spring-mar or april I think? I competed in SLAP in the Pro div with mine. Just read the rules, you can compete with a computer, but how it is powered (AC vs DC) may determine which group/level you have to compete in.
> 
> If you have it hibernate, it should be off in less than 30secs easy. If all you need it to do is play music, an M10000 will be plenty, that is what my first carpc was.


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## durwood

thehatedguy said:


> I know Jan, I was watching her go through the lanes at IASCA Finals last year...looked like they were having problems with the puter. Kind of turned me off right there.


I wonder what kind of problems she had. She recently upgraded the PC and the software too and now works for mp3car.

I've had my fair share of problems at the shows too, but got it worked out rather quickly. I'm not going to say a carputer is 100% reliable, home PC's aren't always reliable either-they always break when you need them most.


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## pwnt by pat

Yeah. Every time my one friend sits in my car, it doesn't start up. Literally every time.


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## Abmolech

I think we need to be up front with the reason you would consider a PC.

There are head units with built in hard drives etc.
A computer is unlikely to cheaper and probably more expensive than "stock items".
I seriously considered pro audio controllers, the DEQX, the lake contours and the TACT units. All of these are fine units.

The "deal breaker" for me was the size and number of units to do this with pro audio.

Car computer advantages
As many channels as I require (Up to 48 if need be)
Just about any type of filter I require (IIR, FIR)
Phase control time alignment etc .
Remove excess reverb
Expander to undo SOME of the damage by "sound engineers" with compression.
Linear volume compensation.

However the "deal breaker" for me was I no longer had to use stereo. 
I can finally choose a program and have a choice of "car friendly formats".

Like any car audio purchase there are better parts than others, I suggest for the ultimate reliability you should be willing to spend accordingly, after all, pro audio equipment equivalents would cost considerably more.

Consider
Solid state hard drivers. These are just about bullet proof, Use less energy, and boot up faster than there spinning cousins.
Ram drivers for the ultimate boot up.
Decent sound card


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## backwoods

2 of the coolest parts...

If you have a wireless data card..

netflix and urge(or whatever music company of your choice)..

Piece of music you want, just download it while your out of town. Kids need another movie, or you are out camping? Wathc a movie on netflix...


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## t3sn4f2

Thought I'd mention this for anyone not aware of it yet. MP3car is coming out with there own HD radio module. It will interface threw USB to the PC, audio goes threw the USB as well. You can then output digitally from your soundcard to the processor if you'd like . The demo vid showed some preset bottoms on the development software so hopefully this will be possible instead of just preset scroll. It picked up the HD signal within like 2 or 3 seconds after analog tuning; analog tuning was instantaneous as expected.


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## scott_fx

After having my pc in my car for about 3 years now w/o having a problem after the initial setup (well one problem but it was an install error on my part) I'd never go to a aftermarket stereo again (unless i wanted a single din non lcd unit for esthetics).

It's not hard to get great sound either. lcd's are getting better, i have a transflective screen that you can view in direct sunlight. I have a fully balanced signal. it goes digital to the dac then balanced to the the x-over and amps (i choose to go with an aftermarket x-over because of the amps i had choosen and I kind of liked the looks of it :nono: )

No radio is a thing of the past or soon to be

a car computer can be cheaper or it can be many times more expensive then an aftermarket solution. but you aren't bound by any limitations. (try to tune your engine with an an eclipse head unit)

You dont even need to go with a touchscreen you can add a keyboard emulator and map the functions you want to buttons you installed in your dash (my current install has this implementation for ergonomics and ease of use)

pretty much you shouldn't have any/many problems once you set it up. you run into problems when you start to modify or tweak certain parts of the system. I've been running everything off the inexpensive m10000 board and I'm very happy (i dont watch movies in my car though so i cant comment on that...though i have booted up a few divx ripped movies just to demonstrate.


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## RedGTiVR6

thehatedguy said:


> I know Jan, I was watching her go through the lanes at IASCA Finals last year...looked like they were having problems with the puter. Kind of turned me off right there.


we had problems with the STEG sub amp...turned out to really be the back channels of the alpine giving out on us. Had to replace the 701.

IIRC, it wasn't the computer.


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## RedGTiVR6

scott_fx said:


> After having my pc in my car for about 3 years now w/o having a problem after the initial setup (well one problem but it was an install error on my part) I'd never go to a aftermarket stereo again (unless i wanted a single din non lcd unit for esthetics).


That's pretty much the story. It takes a bit longer and a bit more know how to get a CarPC up and running reliably. Once you have it that way though, you'll never go back.

I've recently switched to some higher powered hardware and have had a few bugs to work out. However, now this system seems more reliable than the MII12000 system. But I haven't put it through the paces of a Texas summer yet either.

btw - Durwood - it's USACi Advanced Pro and IASCA Street Pro this year. No MECA yet...no shows in our area. Keep trying to make it to the shows up in Tulsa at Car Toys of Tulsa but every weekend they have them we're busy doing something else.


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## RedGTiVR6

pwnt by pat said:


> The user on mp3car that competes is redgtivr6, I believe. She/they are going to be using pear audio cables though, so I don't know.....


Using Straight Wire instead right now.

Whiterabbit - While I understand and completely agree that CarPCs are not for everyone, presenting it in the manner you chose is most definately going to start a pissing match.

Rather than bash it so heavily based solely on your experiences, perhaps try presenting it without such a negative slant.

CarPCs are not an end all be all solution for everyone.

For those of us who get bored with regular car audio installs and would like something more, it's _one_ possible solution.

At first, my now husband was adamantly against CarPCs 3+ years ago. Yeah, back then it was still VERY much a hard core hobbiest project. However, I can now say that that's pretty far from the truth...as evidenced by the number of people that have become interested in the forum over the past year or so.

I'd encourage anyone that is interested to read up in the links that durwood posted as well as the FAQ link in the Nav bar. I'm _constantly_ adding new FAQs to it in an effort to make the transition process smoother for newbies coming in.

The thing newcomers have to understand is that running a CarPC is *not* as easy as picking a head unit off the shelf and installing it within an hour...that's never been the intent.

As with anything that's worth doing, it's worth doing right. Some people want and expect a CarPC to be an end all be all solution, quite simply, it's not.

It requires a good deal of research to get it to work _right_. Some folks aren't willing to do that research on their own and get quite upset when you point them to the exact thread/FAQ that would answer their questions. For those folks, a CarPC is most certainly not a good solution. If they aren't willing to do the research in the first place, they might as well not get involved in a very involved project.

Whiterabbit - I remember you being on the forums for a time. While I don't remember all of the issues you had I remember it was a while back. Things have advanced in the past year or so a great deal. Rather than immediately bash CarPCs based on a sole past experience with antequated technology, I'd encourage you to present your case without such a heavy slant. It makes your point appear much more neutral and unbiased...

No harm no foul here. Only trying to get some things out on the table for those who are actually interested in learning more about the hobby (and yes, it's still very much a _hobby_ right now).


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## ATB

I am still waiting for a suitable replacement for the empeg, which I consider to be the 1st consumer car pc. It was designed from the start to be an audio player (that just happened to be running Linux under the covers). Start up? a couple of seconds. Interface? 4 buttons, a push knob and a decent res screen. SQ? analog only, but designed to sound good.

Considering how good this thing was 7-8 years ago, I can just imagine what those guys would have out today if they hadn't been bought out by Rio and run into the ground.

Although I am not too happy about it, I use ipods connected to aux-in now. Sounds okay and is very convenient. I think Alpine could have made the x001 killer if it had built in controls for the h701 and a digital output.


----------



## jayd4wg

Not long ago there were a TON of kiosk computers on ebay. when i first looked at them i thought "what the hell would anyone want one of THEM for?"

First off, they were celeron procs, 1.8 iirc, with 512m Ram, a 80gb hard drive, built in wifi, 10/100, 4 usb and the whole thing was a package 10 inches wide, about 8 tall, AND had a touchscreen LCD mounted to the front of it. All at a mounting depth just shy of 4 inches. 

I now know what they could have been used for. and I wish i had bought about a dozen of them. they were going for 120 each, buy it now.


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## NaamanF

I am also in the boat of never going back to a normal stereo. I would say my current car computer is 99% reliable. If you don't plan out the entire install I am sure you will run into trouble. But take some time and plan it all out with reliable hardware/software in you should be golden. I would venture to say that anyone that has seen/used my computer wants one in their ride.


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## NaamanF

Abmolech said:


> Consider
> Solid state hard drivers. These are just about bullet proof, Use less energy, and boot up faster than there spinning cousins.
> Ram drivers for the ultimate boot up.
> Decent sound card


No need for solid state drives. Regular desktop/laptop drives do just fine. Plus their speed isn't an issue when using suspend to ram. I would say my computer is playing music about 15 seconds after it turns on. And that's actually slower than some. 

One thing to keep in mind on the sound side when using XP is that unless you are using software that uses bit perfect you won't be getting the best sound possible.


----------



## RedGTiVR6

many times the kiosk computers or the propritary computers from Dell, HP, Compaq, etc. all have special power supply needs. These needs can't always be met by the DC-DC PSUs on the market.

There are a few laptops that are like this as well.

I would recomend going with a Kiosk PC for this reason. It's next to impossible to know what kind of PSU they require until you get one in your hands.


----------



## Medicineman

Shameless Gentoo plug for those who hate MS

http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Car_Computer

I personally do not care about video, gps, engine tuning, whatever. No need for DSP functionality from the computer in my install. All I want is easy access to a massive flac based music collection. My idea would be to use a bare bones Gentoo install (tiny compared to winsuck) and a simple music daemon (mpd) with controls mapped to a few well placed keys (currently using only 5 keys on my home pc but would need a few more for the car). The only thing stopping me from pursuing this is the Georgia heat. 100+ degrees in the shade seems like too much for my collection of parts.

Yes I know, I know..... There is more software available for winsuck. Too bad for billy boy I don't need it!


----------



## Rudeboy

Medicineman said:


> Shameless Gentoo plug for those who hate MS
> 
> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Car_Computer
> 
> I personally do not care about video, gps, engine tuning, whatever. No need for DSP functionality from the computer in my install. All I want is easy access to a massive flac based music collection. My idea would be to use a bare bones Gentoo install (tiny compared to winsuck) and a simple music daemon (mpd) with controls mapped to a few well placed keys (currently using only 5 keys on my home pc but would need a few more for the car). The only thing stopping me from pursuing this is the Georgia heat. 100+ degrees in the shade seems like too much for my collection of parts.
> 
> Yes I know, I know..... There is more software available for winsuck. Too bad for billy boy I don't need it!


Now you've done it. Not so much hatred for MS, but I definitely wouldn't want to rely on them for a critical function like playing music. Don't think I could stand to see an MS OS booting in my car. Thanks for the link - now I can blame you for the huge time sink I see in my future


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## scott_fx

you guys are focusing on the ms thing too much. The reason why car computers are so much more stable then a house pc is that you're not doing a lot of data shifting and installing programs. you start with a clean os install then add the programs you need, lastly add your music and you're done. You rarely write to the hard disk (compared to your personal computer) and things don't get fragmented. MS is perfectly stable for our purposes.


----------



## RedGTiVR6

Not to mention, there's a crap load more options out there for software (especially for tuning).

Scott - haven't seen you on the forums over there lately. What's up?


----------



## durwood

Hey it's the whole gang in here.  I think he was buying a house or something a while back.

I agree with both of you. I have had more hardware issues/install related then anything software related.


----------



## npdang

sqkev said:


> the downfall to my setup is that I rely on Console. I need to load my settings everytime I want to listen to music. From ignition to playing music, it takes about 1 minute or so. Keep in mind that my windows xp is stock, not skimmed down in any way and running only 512mb. I can skim down windows to run faster and start off from hibernate, but I haven't set that yet. It would be significantly faster.


Kev... use a scripting program to do that for you.


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## Whiterabbit

I'm not the only one, even AP recommends caution. Interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070627/ap_on_hi_te/apple_greatest_misses

"The iPhone will rely on an on-screen keyboard for text entry, rather than a stylus and handwriting recognition. It remains to be seen whether users will take to typing on a screen that provides no tactile feedback."


----------



## NaamanF

I don't even you use the touch screen on my computer. I do it all with the touch pad in my arm rest. Have all the zone set up for the most used functions. I take my eyes off the road less than back when I was swapping CDs.


----------



## Whiterabbit

any tactile feedback on that touchpad?


----------



## NaamanF

Feedback? No. But all the zones are on the outside edges and can easily be located by touch alone. Also all commands can be done with a gesture. I can also set up my steering wheel controls to control the PC but haven't because I find my current method very effective.

I would agree that a purely touch screen PC isn't the way to go. But planned out and implemented properly the PC can be just as safe and user friendly as a OEM unit.


----------



## scott_fx

there is a usb haptic rotary encoder out there which will give you force feedback


----------



## Medicineman

> you guys are focusing on the ms thing too much. The reason why car computers are so much more stable then a house pc is .....


I never mentioned OS stability. Interesting how quickly that topic came up. 
Seriously though, I only brought up Linux to stir up ideas in an already interesting thread. Linux is more for the computer enthusiast interested in audio than for the audio enthusiast interested in computers (if that makes sense). Windows will definately be the better choice for most people attempting a carputer.




> Not to mention, there's a crap load more options out there for software (especially for tuning).


Definately true, as I had already conceded. However, if you do not want/need the software, why not choose an OS that can be amazingly small, install it onto some small chunck of solid state media, and enjoy the fastest possible startup/shutdown times with the reliability of solid state? Just a thought. "If" I were to attempt a carputer, this would be the direction I would take. Most people would want the software of course.


A potentially bigger problem that has not been mentioned is hardware support for Linux. Full featured, stable drivers for the newest high end hardware virtually don't exist. For example, my Soundblaster XFi Ultimate card can't even play static in Linux and there is no sign that will change anytime soon. If you want to go cutting edge winsuck is the only option.


----------



## chad

Medicineman said:


> Definately true,


Definately true that your sig rocks


----------



## RedGTiVR6

Whiterabbit said:


> I'm not the only one, even AP recommends caution. Interesting.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070627/ap_on_hi_te/apple_greatest_misses
> 
> "The iPhone will rely on an on-screen keyboard for text entry, rather than a stylus and handwriting recognition. It remains to be seen whether users will take to typing on a screen that provides no tactile feedback."


I've had a PC in my car for over 3 years...the only time I've needed a keyboard is to enter in registration codes...I do that at home in the car while setting up other parts of the PC...you don't need a keyboard with a CarPC all the time.

I've run ONLY a touch screen for 3+ years and never thought I was missing anything.

I drive a GTi so I sit closer to the screen than some people in other vehicles.

What I see here and on the forum over on mp3car.com is that people run into problems when they try and do way too many things with their CarPC. KISS! With the normal programs and front ends that should be in a CarPC, there's no need for a keyboard. Properly designed, a CarPC should be like say the AVIC, or factory navigation systems.


----------



## Medicineman

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Medicineman*
> _
> Definately true,_
> 
> Definately true that your sig rocks


LOL, Chad approved! Now if I could only convince myself to finish the install......


It is yet another example of my minimalistic approach to things. 550 watts gets plenty loud to my ears. A 2-way front stage is all I need for a daily driver. The idea of a carputer is still intriguing, though.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Here's a long thread from a microsoft guy I think, about the advanced audio processing that comes standard on Windows Vista.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=713073&page=1&pp=30


----------



## less

IF this has been asked already - please drop me a link, but I am at work and don't have time atm to read this whole thread. 

I love this concept and appreciate the info you have provided here so far, but one more question....

What about the Sound Quality??? I am very comfy with building a PC and don't think I would have much issues with doing one for my car, but how would the SQ of a hard drive, wav file based file system played through the best sound playback software (what would that be?) and the best quality at a reasonable value sound card (what would that be part 2?) sound like?

How would it compare to a regular head unit? Are there options out there to the standard three connection mini-plug normally found on sound cards? 

As much time as I spend on my home PC, having that kind entertainment available in my car would simply rock the house... although my old guy eyes would surely make this a challenge for anything beyond the most basic tasks. Since I ride alone, maybe I could find a bigger than normal screen that could be built to swivel out from the console... 

So many options - so little time (and $). Great thread too - thanks contributors... I'll be checking this one out this weeknd!

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## scott_fx

there are plenty of options for soundcards that don't use mini plugss. red and durwood are using onboard processing and cards with rca's, i'm crossing everything over with an external x-over and instead using a dac for my 'soundcard ' 

plenty of options out there for high end sound...and you can always use the alpine h701 if you get cold feet


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## sqkev

npdang said:


> Kev... use a scripting program to do that for you.


pls tell me more, I don't know how to write scripts


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## develguy

Looks like I am reviving an older thread...

I have read through this thread and it has been very informative... Thanks!

I am about to pull the trigger on this.

I'll be dropping in a 120GB 2.5" HDD, buying an external DVD and a 7" touchscreen.

My question(s): Since I will not be using my single din Alpine head unit (mainly due to a lack of space for it), how will I get am/fm and sub control?

I have a single din DEQ that has sub control but as mentioned, I have nowhere to put it.

Thanks!


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