# W7 vs. other subs



## thisgsx (Mar 16, 2006)

When the 7 came out years ago it was all the rave and hype. It's been a little long time since, and it seems like JL hasn't or won't have a successor anytime soon. The only one was the AE but there was no upgrade to the sub other than cosmetic changes. I have one. The question is, today, are there better subs that will destroy the 7 in both spl and sq? 

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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

thisgsx said:


> When the 7 came out years ago it was all the rave and hype. It's been a little long time since, and it seems like JL hasn't or won't have a successor anytime soon. The only one was the AE but there was no upgrade to the sub other than cosmetic changes. I have one. The question is, today, are there better subs that will destroy the 7 in both spl and sq?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk


Yes, to both questions, and in value for your dollar. Audiofrog gets the sq vote around here, but subs similar to the W7's (high excursion, sq oriented), CSS Audio SDX12, Adire Audio Brahma, Stereo Integrity RM. There are more, but those are the ones I'm familiar with. The W7's are nearly double the price of all of those, and it seems no one is happy with their W7's.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

For the money right now I would grab a stereo integrity RM sub. Price and reviews seem to be saying it's the value of the day.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

I like my SDX12's, but they were $279 each preorder, Stereo Integrity hadn't yet made the RM series, and Adire Audio hadn't reopened. If I were buying today, I'd probably go with Stereo Integrity.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

The sdx 12 is almost $400 now and were bought out. The stereo integrity is being made now. A few people here have them and I'm probably ordering mine soon here. 







ckirocz28 said:


> I like my SDX12's, but they were $279 each preorder, Stereo Integrity hadn't yet made the RM series, and Adire Audio hadn't reopened. If I were buying today, I'd probably go with Stereo Integrity.


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

I'm debating selling my soundsplinter rl-p15 and getting a brahma 15.


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

Sorry gentlemen but none of those sub come close to a w7 in a ported box with output or sq, the only sub I’ve ever used that beat a w7 with output ported was a DC audio level 5 and that was with 3 times the amount of power and wasn’t as musical but was good enough to the point where I would use one, if we’re talking about a sealed or band pass box now then I would use something else as they’re like a waste of woofer in those boxes and let me add that some of the speakers mentioned sounds like straight up crap but I’m done bashing equipment so I won’t go into details as everybody’s taste is different and maybe what sounds like crap to me is awesome to someone else.


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## Mashburn (Jun 26, 2018)

I wouldn’t say it destroys them. I have heard a W7 in a properly built potted enclosure. It was a good sounding sub and had lots of volume. 
Plus the W7 is 1000 from JL, while the Stereo Integrity is 359... FS are .8 hz difference, sensitivity is almost identical, (less than 1DB) SI beats it in xmax by 1 mm. 
Other parameters are extremely close as well. To come in and bash other brands is a little crazy, especially since they are the top subs at the moment.

I’d take a RM12 over a W7 anyday of the week.


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

To weigh in here...I've run a W7 for years. It has been good at it's job the entire time I've run it. I will say that it is definitely an SPL sub. I currently have my dub 7 installed in an SQ build in my vette and it does seem to be a bit mis-matched. Big boomy bass like in rap does sound as it should, but me being a metal head, I prefer tight crisp bass which the W7 clearly was not designed for, even in a sealed enclosure. That being said, I've also been in a Tahoe that had 2 13W7 on 1000W RMS each, and they hit so hard that you couldn't even sit in the truck...again, clearly an SPL sub. So I'm not hating on it by any stretch. It's a phenomenal SPL sub and you be hard pressed to find an SPL guy to say it wasn't a great choice to get loud with. But they are also pricey and like mentioned, you can purchase a sub that will sound or perform similarly for less money. Currently I'm seeking replacement that is more SQ in nature to replace the dub7. So if you're interested in picking one up that hasn't been abused and is in great condition, let me know.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Another sub if you want SQ with some L is the SI HST line. Used more on the home theater side, they are musical and hard hitting while being able to handle some power for output in a fairly small sealed enclosure depending on the size. I’m more familiar with the HST-18 but they are a family with very similar capabilities between the sizes.


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

So why does it sound like total **** in a ported box then if all specs are almost identical? And when put in a sealed box it just sounds ok? None of there subs comes nowhere close to a w7 in a ported box, I worked for a shop that is know as the McDonald’s of car audio, we build 2-3 boxes a day everyday so I have a good idea about what sub works in what application and people don’t care about the price of a w7 when they hear it cuz nothing sounds like it. Currently Brooklyn’s heavy weight champ is using (6) 13w7’s and taking out trucks with (10) 15” and even more, lets see a RM woofer do that and it’s cheaper so nobody has a problem buying them.


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## nstaln (Feb 11, 2009)

My 8w7 was one of the most accurate subs I've ever used. Very impressed with that little sub.


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## Mashburn (Jun 26, 2018)

Idk if I would compare your shop to McDonald’s. That’s pretty low quality right there


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

And I didn’t want to come out and bash the RM but I’ve heard them on several occasion and for their size and weight I would put them against the w7’s and they’re just not that woofer. I would just use them sealed, and I hope I don’t get turned away when I run up on one of you guys in the lanes for a demo cuz the Prius door is always open for everyone.


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## Mashburn (Jun 26, 2018)

At the end of the day it comes down to sound preference. The W7 is a beast of a sub for sure, but I prefer the W6 to the W7. It depends on what your goal for the vehicle is.

I don’t see anybody going wrong with any of the above choices listed.


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## SPAZ (Jan 7, 2009)

I've had W7's for years. I had the 10 the 12 and the 13. I tried ported and sealed. The W7 is a low-end monster but maybe too much since it was hard for me to tune it right. I replaced the 13w7 with a GB12 and I was happy. I now use the SI RM-12 and I am even happier because the RM-12 gets almost as loud but doesn't have the bloated or extreme low-end.


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

That what we call it for it’s in and out service, I use to tell the customer that if they want red lobster go to apicella but here it’s in and out but it’s good service, one of the most profitable and reputable shops in the USA, they just don’t cater too much for the sq crowd. They would rather load your doors with speakers and (2) w7 and send you off vs dealing with the sq picky people that will complain about rattles and road noise, I’m still a active street battles member with my (3) 12w7’s in my garage that is into sq now and w6 Is what I’ve been using with great results and this isn’t no self praise, the numbers are there to show, can’t wait to go up against the RM guys this season


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Mullings said:


> That what we call it for it’s in and out service, I use to tell the customer that if they want red lobster go to apicella but here it’s in and out but it’s good service, one of the most profitable and reputable shops in the USA, they just don’t cater too much for the sq crowd. They would rather load your doors with speakers and (2) w7 and send you off vs dealing with the sq picky people that will complain about rattles and road noise, I’m still a active street battles member with my (3) 12w7’s in my garage that is into sq now and w6 Is what I’ve been using with great results and this isn’t no self praise, the numbers are there to show, can’t wait to go up against the RM guys this season


kevin , this post shows that you are kinda a newb in how to present yourself in a professional manner online , this debate is not really fair , being that sq is subjective and just because you dont like the sound of the rm other people may prefer it , i did very well last season with my rm , in meca sq, ny state champ in my class . anyway you are representing your employer every time you post. its kinda an unfair comparison for a rm and a w7 price wise , because the rm is pretty much 2/3rds less the cost , its like saying my thesis 3 inch smokes the hertz mille pro 3 inch , well duh it should , 300 vs 1200 a pair . food for thought , posts like this just seem unfair and who are you really trying to impress here , ?


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

Lol, not trying to impress anyone, but as you said “duh”, just getting the point across about the w7’s output capabilities vs almost everything else.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

chasingSQ said:


> kevin , this post shows that you are kinda a newb in how to present yourself in a professional manner online , this debate is not really fair , being that sq is subjective and just because you dont like the sound of the rm other people may prefer it , i did very well last season with my rm , in meca sq, ny state champ in my class . anyway you are representing your employer every time you post. its kinda an unfair comparison for a rm and a w7 price wise , because the rm is pretty much 2/3rds less the cost , its like saying my thesis 3 inch smokes the hertz mille pro 3 inch , well duh it should , 300 vs 1200 a pair . food for thought , posts like this just seem unfair and who are you really trying to impress here , ?


i think your misunderstanding *how* hes saying it. Kevin is the *last* person to **** on anyones choices and is one of the most easy going, friendly guys ive ever come across. Everyone else thats met him would agree. Working with him day in and day out, i can promise that your just not understanding his tone. He is also a very competitive person. Not in a bad way, but in a "lets have fun chasing each other" way.

Also, im willing to bet he has more experience with any of the high output stuff than anyone on this board combined. thats not an exaggeration.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

Mullings said:


> Lol, not trying to impress anyone, but as you said “duh”, just getting the point across about the w7’s output capabilities vs almost everything else.


cool , thanks bud


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> i think your misunderstanding *how* hes saying it. Kevin is the *last* person to **** on anyones choices and is one of the most easy going, friendly guys ive ever come across. Everyone else thats met him would agree. Working with him day in and day out, i can promise that your just not understanding his tone. He is also a very competitive person. Not in a bad way, but in a "lets have fun chasing each other" way.
> 
> Also, im willing to bet he has more experience with any of the high output stuff than anyone on this board combined. thats not an exaggeration.


yes the how is what i was talking about . i know kevin is good and knowledgeable guy for sure ,


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Also, context for anyone that doesnt know Kevin.. he thinks Red Lobster is Gods gift to the world. I dont get it either lol

edit: he just told me he was there on sunday :laugh:


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

On topic, I've heard some people really swear by their W7's. They have good output but I wasn't overwhelmed by the sound quality. In my own head I peg it as a very good SQL woofer. Not SQ.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm just here for the Red Lobster biscuits :drool:


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Mullings said:


> ...if they want red lobster go to apicella...





SkizeR said:


> Also, context for anyone that doesnt know Kevin.. he thinks Red Lobster is Gods gift to the world. I dont get it either lol
> 
> edit: he just told me he was there on sunday :laugh:


Apicella Auto Sound?


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

I'm not getting how the W7's get louder than other subs that can displace more air. You just can't work around physics with a higher price tag, or a more well known name.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Apicella Auto Sound?


Nice! 

Well...I'm not going to hate on Kevin's Red Lobster fetish  But that 'context' did help in the interpretation  I'm hoping to see Kevin again at the Meet in May or at least at SVR.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

While I've never really thought the w7 was a great sounding sub I do think it can sound really good as long as it's in the right box. I've heard them sound loud and boomy and I've heard them sound fairly good. If I had to choose a sub out of the JL lineup it would be the w6v2 (or v3?). But yeah that's why we have so many choices in this hobby. We all like different things. And I've heard stuff sound great that preconceived notions said should sound like poo and vice versa. While you need to pay attention to the gear being used to make sure it will meet your goals it's still way more about install and tuning in the car audio world.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

ckirocz28 said:


> I'm not getting how the W7's get louder than other subs that can displace more air. You just can't work around physics with a higher price tag, or a more well known name.


sensitivity?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

another side note.. a custom whos at the shop todays girlfriend just called him and asked him to go to red lobster. cant even make this up


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## Mlarson67 (Jan 9, 2015)

Food for thought. I bought a used 12w7 on eBay in 2003 and put it in my truck and ran that system for 11 years. I then bought a new truck and a new w7. My old w7 went into my teenagers car. It has been through three systems since then. The latest system I put it in about two weeks ago I had to put a new foam surround on it for $37.95. I originally paid $400 for it. It’s been in service for 16 years for a total cost of $437.95. This thing has taken a beating for 16 years and sounds great to this day. How many of these other subs could do that?


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> sensitivity?


Only if we're talking limited power. I'm saying a W7 cannot play louder than a sub that displaces more air when both are driven to Xmax. If you need specific criteria, same car, same type of box of ideal size and tuning for each sub. I'm not hating on JL (I own a few of their products), just saying that they're not top dog anymore, with respect to high-spl sq-oriented subs. Mullings was saying that W7's can take all comers, I'm saying the W7 design is stagnant and that is no longer the case.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

ckirocz28 said:


> Only if we're talking limited power. I'm saying a W7 cannot play louder than a sub that displaces more air when both are driven to Xmax. If you need specific criteria, same car, same type of box of ideal size and tuning for each sub. I'm not hating on JL (I own a few of their products), just saying that they're not top dog anymore, with respect to high-spl sq-oriented subs. Mullings was saying that W7's can take all comers, I'm saying the W7 design is stagnant and that is no longer the case.


I think hes saying they wont be beat for best of both worlds. He told me not even a few hours ago a few different subs hes used that had more output.


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## thisgsx (Mar 16, 2006)

So it looks like I'll just hang on to my 7. Thanks for the feedback guys!

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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> I think hes saying they wont be beat for best of both worlds. He told me not even a few hours ago a few different subs hes used that had more output.


And I'm saying they can. Maybe on the same limited power, he's right; but let's face it, power is dirt cheap these days. I'm sure he's heard many more subs and installs than I, but I'm sure that I'm not biased and I'm pretty sure that JL W7's are absolutely his favorite. I would just recommend anything but a W7, unless a customer likes JL more than they like their own money.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

thisgsx said:


> So it looks like I'll just hang on to my 7. Thanks for the feedback guys!
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk


Since you already had it, it's not a waste of money to keep it.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> Also, context for anyone that doesnt know Kevin.. he thinks Red Lobster is Gods gift to the world. I dont get it either lol
> 
> edit: he just told me he was there on sunday :laugh:


I was just going to bring up the "Red Lobster" analogy... Lol! That place is nasty...

Tell him to use Ruth's Chris or something next time he wants to describe Apicella!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DavidRam said:


> I was just going to bring up the "Red Lobster" analogy... Lol! That place is nasty...
> 
> 
> 
> Tell him to use Ruth's Chris or something next time he wants to describe Apicella!


That's exactly what I told him, to a T. Now I gotta lower my labor rate lol

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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> That's exactly what I told him, to a T. Now I gotta lower my labor rate lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Lol!


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Let's just settle this debate once and for all. NOTHING can beat the almighty FUNKY PUP. They make so much bass the world turns backwards for seconds at a time when they play!


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## jrwalte (Mar 27, 2008)

I have a 12W7AE...that I need to sell  I tried it sealed and ported. I was never satisfied with it. Went with a SI RM-15 and couldn't be happier. In my setup at least, beats the 12W7 in output and SQ.


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

im Sorry if I offended anyone as that wasn’t my intent, I was just stating what I know and w7’s isn’t my favorite woofer, go back and read where I said it’s a waste of a woofer to put them in a sealed or band pass box, everybody knows that I’m a dynaudio fanboy but I didn’t even mention the E1200 because it doesn’t have the output to match the rest and this is about output/sq, if you think I’m talking about a w7 in a meca or iasca comp car that not what I’m talking about, I’m talking about street bass so if you know a better sounding woofer don’t talk physics mentioned a woofer name.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

ckirocz28 said:


> I like my SDX12's, but they were $279 each preorder, Stereo Integrity hadn't yet made the RM series, and Adire Audio hadn't reopened. If I were buying today, I'd probably go with Stereo Integrity.


good call, RM-12 is better than the SDX12.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Mullings said:


> And I didn’t want to come out and bash the RM but I’ve heard them on several occasion and for their size and weight I would put them against the w7’s and they’re just not that woofer. I would just use them sealed, and I hope I don’t get turned away when I run up on one of you guys in the lanes for a demo cuz the Prius door is always open for everyone.


i would agree, but i think more work needs to be done. I am a ported sq sub kind of guy. I think they just offer something that sealed boxes can't when done right.

I own the RM-12 and tried it in a ported box and it sucked. period. But in a sealed box it blows me away. It is that good sealed, so i want to know why it can't become the next IT driver in a ported box.

I plan on exploring that this summer.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Mullings said:


> im Sorry if I offended anyone as that wasn’t my intent, I was just stating what I know and w7’s isn’t my favorite woofer, go back and read where I said it’s a waste of a woofer to put them in a sealed or band pass box, everybody knows that I’m a dynaudio fanboy but I didn’t even mention the E1200 because it doesn’t have the output to match the rest and this is about output/sq, if you think I’m talking about a w7 in a meca or iasca comp car that not what I’m talking about, I’m talking about street bass so if you know a better sounding woofer don’t talk physics mentioned a woofer name.


The OP wasn't asking about street bass, and you didn't offend me, you just came off like a W7 fanboy, AND I thought you were talking about subs in general with this "it’s a waste of a woofer to put them in a sealed or band pass box", not just W7's. I did mention some woofer names that can outperform W7's sql-wise not "street bass".


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> That's exactly what I told him, to a T. Now I gotta lower my labor rate lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Or just charge $12 bucks extra if they want the baked potato


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Go run an Adire audio sub. Report back.

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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Go run an Adire audio sub. Report back.
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


which one? I shopped them when buying my Rm-12, i didn't see much in terms of car audio SQ.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

miniSQ said:


> which one? I shopped them when buying my Rm-12, i didn't see much in terms of car audio SQ.


Idk. Any with the XBL motors. Xbl is supposed to excel particularly in sealed enclosures. 

My vote for sq sub is the SSA Icon. I have yet to hear better. 

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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

miniSQ said:


> which one? I shopped them when buying my Rm-12, i didn't see much in terms of car audio SQ.


they are xbl^2 drivers. They sound very good. And the brahma is capable of really good output as well. 

I sent them an old adire audio koda 10 that i had in my camry. they needed it for testing. they are going to start producing them again. 
a single 10 sealed didn't have enough output for my liking, but as far as sound quality, it was the best that I've personally heard.

(and not to offend but i run an audiofrog gb10d2 sealed in my s2000)


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## sq2k1 (Oct 31, 2015)

Jscoyne2 said:


> My vote for sq sub is the SSA Icon. I have yet to hear better.


I was curious if you mean the newest version of the icon or the ones which were previously built by Fi?


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

sq2k1 said:


> I was curious if you mean the newest version of the icon or the ones which were previously built by Fi?


I used the older version but i have faith the new ones are just as good. 

https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/151628.html

Worth reading on xbl^2 subs and their sq properties

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## Lou Frasier2 (Jul 17, 2012)

miniSQ said:


> Or just charge $12 bucks extra if they want the baked potato


****ing baked potato sounds good right now


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Jscoyne2 said:


> I used the older version but i have faith the new ones are just as good.
> 
> https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/151628.html
> 
> ...


You have any idea if those Icon's are xbl^2? Those top and back plates are the same shape that I see on xbl^2 subs.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

ckirocz28 said:


> You have any idea if those Icon's are xbl^2? Those top and back plates are the same shape that I see on xbl^2 subs.


No they aren't but don't let that dissuade you 

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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

thisgsx said:


> When the 7 came out years ago it was all the rave and hype. It's been a little long time since, and it seems like JL hasn't or won't have a successor anytime soon. The only one was the AE but there was no upgrade to the sub other than cosmetic changes. I have one. *The question is, today, are there better subs that will destroy the 7 in both spl and sq?*


In SPL, probably not many. In terms of SQ, I believe there are better subwoofers that have "enough" SPL, but let me quantify that statement below.

The W7 has a reputation for a reason. Ever since its release it has been a CONSISTENT top performer in Output AND Long Term Reliability. It has obviously lasted the test of time. I'm sure that JL would design & produce a replacement if it wasn't still performing to popular expectations and if it wasn't still selling well.

Long Term Reliability...that's one thing I feel not all speaker & subwoofer manufacturers take into consideration when engineering and manufacturing their drivers...and I mean in EVERY aspect of the design & production of the driver.

There's the important matter (IMO) of QUALITY & CONSISTENCY in the production of both the Parts AND in Assembly...i.e. QC. And how many other subwoofer manufacturers hold EIGHT unique U.S. Patents for the motor, suspension, and assembly technologies used just in their subwoofers???

JL, Dynaudio, Audiofrog, Scanspeak, and some of the better Pro Audio manufacturers do design & test for LTR and potential abuse, including environmental effects. And besides their performance, I think that care & time taken in R&D and the resulting LTR is just one of the reasons you pay a premium for these brands.

As long as you don't do something completely stupid, the W7 was and is one of the first commercially available, mainstream SPL subwoofers that would/will handle a Sh!t Ton of ABUSE and laugh doing it.

Are there others that might match or come close in Output that are less expensive (with consideration for Sd)? Just a few. But I doubt that those brands have a subwoofer with the true build quality and longevity of the W7. And let's not forget that the W7 subs have done fairly well in regards to SQ & Output with their Fathom and Gotham powered home subwoofers as well.

Would the W7 be my personal first choice for the ultimate SQ sub that can also get down & boogie? Nope, never has been and never will be. But that's simply because in a true SQ setup, you DO NOT need that extreme SPL output, and IMO, other attributes are more important.

For true realism & accuracy in a SQ system, the subwoofer stage needs to be perfectly balanced with the rest of the frequency range. Do you listen to your front stage at 130dB+ levels? If you do, I sure hope it's not for long periods. 

Yes, I realize that you will typically have a ~9dB boost in the lower subwoofer range compared to your front stage, but most if not all of that comes from the transfer function/cabin gain.

So let's say that your "get down & boogie" front stage listening level is 110dB (painful for me). That means that the peak in your subwoofer system should be somewhere in the 120dB range max. With cabin gain, that's fairly easy to achieve with most decent subwoofers in the proper alignment. And there should be a consideration for the Fletcher-Munson curve.

Sure, a top-notch SQ sub needs to have a decent amount of Xmax. BUT, it needs to have LOW-end Extension PLUS Clean & Smooth/Extended Upper Response...i.e. ACCURACY. To me, that means a subwoofer with higher efficiency, low Fs, low Mass, and very low & linear Inductance. I don't believe that the W7 is _quite_ THAT sub, even though in many areas it comes close.

EDIT: 



SkizeR said:


> Also, context for anyone that doesnt know Kevin.. he thinks Red Lobster is Gods gift to the world. I dont get it either lol
> 
> edit: he just told me he was there on sunday :laugh:


[email protected], I just lost ALL respect for Kev.  

I think it's kind of funny how they almost have a cult following with a select group of people.  No hate, I just don't get it either.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Jscoyne2 said:


> No they aren't but don't let that dissuade you
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


Just curious, I've got some CSS Audio SDX12's.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

To me the W7 is the best sub for hiphop or electronic music, subjectively. However, pleanty options out there that are more affordable but I am just getting back into car audio because a new car. But i have tried 50+ subs over my 30 years of doing this. A smilar sub with similar lowend respond was the SSA Icon...But it was the first gen, and I actually was the tester of the unit before it came out and I won it here. Great sub, but not a "sq" specific sub regarding flat response, transparancy, ease of tuning. Also, the audiopulse high powered subs, (not epic) will mirror the w7 but less bloat. super rare. If you can find a Oz Matrix elite sub, those are all as good as the w7 and more efficient.

Sq subs (to me) that are just super clear and have no coloration and are simple to blend to your front stage have been Alumapro RX and MX, ESB, morel ultimo elite and sc, dynaudio, seas lroy, tc2 subs. Honestly my favorite for just a sq focused system is the alumapros. I have not heard the audiofrog stuff at all, as it was just being release when i last was here. I usually use a/b amps for sq focused systems and the alumapros are very efficient and get very loud with 300 watts. Sooo clean, but not bangers. 

My favorite subs have been ones that are flat out performers and compromise the extremes (hardly though) for an accurate response and great low end and versatility. All time fav subs for these: are the tc sound subs, 1000s, epics, audiomobile (Mass, Evo) the other variants like eclipse, sound splinter, audiopulse. They do everything right. Much like the Boston G5, ID Max, Arc Black and regular arc classic (idq v 2.5), JBL GTI. These are ones you cant go wrong with. CSS as well. 

So what are you trying to improve on? 

The best way to have a satisfying sub upgrade is cone area or changing from sealed from vented.

Moving from a 12w7 to say, the soundsplinter rl 15 in classifieds will be a nice upgrade for instance. it will move more air and have a better response


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## Sine Swept (Sep 3, 2010)

I've built many sealed / ported boxes for w7 8/10/12 in single or dual configurations. None of them have been for my personal vehicle. I am often told how great the enclosure sounds, how much impact the sub has etc. 

When I listen to one, I don't hear any motor noise, but personally I don't really get it.
Having now ran an IDMAX 12 in a low tuned 2.8 cube box for a year or so, I really love how this sub sounds and blends effortlessly with the rest of my frankensystem.

The ultimate sub stage for me would hit highs like it did lows at similar SPL's. Going low is easy but sustaining into the upper bass notes is definitely not.


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

They were never meant for that, that woofer targets the right market, the market that upwards of 90% of subwoofer buyers are looking for, face it how many sq guys you know vs regular music listeners that don’t care if their system blends? Don’t even care or even know about tuning with a mic? That uses 2 clarion eq’s and 2 clarion crossovers so they can boost the treble and low frequency knobs all the way? I can go on and on about regular people the McDonald’s people lol. The time that you take to eat your breadsticks, the free salad, drink your Bahamas mama then eat whatever meal you ordered LOL, McDonald’s already sold 50 Big Macs and 100 kids happy meal through their 2 way drive through alone lol.


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## bassace (Oct 31, 2011)

Mullings said:


> (6) 13w7’s and taking out trucks with (10) 15” and even more, lets see a RM woofer do that and it’s cheaper so nobody has a problem buying them.


 

That's a very vague statement. Ten 15" drivers are able to "take out" six 13W7's, or not. Depends on the drivers, enclosures, power, and etc. 

I take it those ten 15s are not Fi SP4s or DD Z4s.


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

I ran the 13w7 in all kinds of configurations for over a decade and still own one of my original 13w7's. I still love this sub.

I was a 13w7 fanatic until I met the Jbl W15gti mkii. I now own a total of 5 jbls and one 13w7. 

The Jbl is a much more nimble sub and digs super low but the 13w7 had just something about it. If I had not met the Jbl, I would still be rocking my 2005 model 13w7. It still does gaming duty in my house.

Make no mistake, two 13w7's in a properly designed and executed ported and corner loaded enclosure that was 100% sealed to the rear deck of my 2001 mercedes e320 was fricking sick! It sounded amazing and engulfed the crap out of the listener. That was until the ford expedition T-boned me.....that hurt.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

JL W7 is NOT my favourite sub for SQ, and like NDM, I prefer JBL W Gti's over W7 any time.
In terms of SPL,...well I dont se any JL W7 in dBDrag lanes, nor EMMA SPL. There are many many subs a lot more capable in terms of output than W7... Alphard 300 and 400 series, TREO SSX, DD Z, GZ Plutonium SPL,......etc


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> another side note.. a custom whos at the shop todays girlfriend just called him and asked him to go to red lobster. cant even make this up


I didn't know you were doing work for Jay-Z?


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## FartinInTheTub (May 25, 2010)

Funkypups


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

What is the inductance of the W7 as it moves through its X-max limits?


As far as I know (haven't heard it but have heard many other SI's), the RM should be a low inductance unit, so that will affect it's "SQ" for many. By that I mean when crossing higher, it will certainly not sound as good as the RM. 



I wish AE would make the AV-H series again. Best subs ever.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

LBaudio said:


> JL W7 is NOT my favourite sub for SQ, and like NDM, I prefer JBL W Gti's over W7 any time.
> In terms of SPL,...well I dont se any JL W7 in dBDrag lanes, nor EMMA SPL. There are many many subs a lot more capable in terms of output than W7... Alphard 300 and 400 series, TREO SSX, DD Z, GZ Plutonium SPL,......etc


There was a kid in Penn that ran 2 13w7's in a Mazda3 sedan with a Slash 1200 on each and set a record for trunk car at finals several years ago with a 150+. While other competitors were smoking their subs he never had to replace or change a thing. SHOCKED everyone that year. Not sure what happened to him but he was the ONLY one in SPL that I've ever seen compete with JL subs.

If you want to have some fun with a w7(specifically a 13) cut a hole in the floor of your car and mount the sub to it and run a true IB setup. CRAZY low extension, beautifully "musical" , TONS of output and all with about 600 watts on it.


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## ManBearPig (Jul 18, 2016)

chefhow said:


> LBaudio said:
> 
> 
> > JL W7 is NOT my favourite sub for SQ, and like NDM, I prefer JBL W Gti's over W7 any time.
> ...


I remember seeing that build on the SMD forum.
He was hitting a 140+ @17hz. It was impressive


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

another vote for JBL GTI.


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## GMCtrk (Apr 14, 2018)

Still looking for someone to build me a ported box for my 2 13w7 in dfw...


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

GMCtrk said:


> Still looking for someone to build me a ported box for my 2 13w7 in dfw...


if you're willing to drive a little contact Bradknob (brad) on here. He is in baton rouge. He will be in college station at the end of this month for the SQ comp. He does some amazing work.


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## thisgsx (Mar 16, 2006)

GMCtrk said:


> Still looking for someone to build me a ported box for my 2 13w7 in dfw...


In the process of. Should be done tomorrow.









Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

GMCtrk said:


> Still looking for someone to build me a ported box for my 2 13w7 in dfw...


Reach out to the guys at Mobile Sound Systems in Arlington, they do great work.
Talk to Jason at 8Ball Customs in OKC, he can do anything you need and is in the DFW all the time with install work, he does delivery as well.


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## mikechec9 (Dec 1, 2006)

I find the W7 to be the best of both worlds. While there are others that do both sq and spl well, i have found none that do both as well as the W7 while getting very low while maintaining the same amplitude. Also the W7 does it more efficiently than say a TC 2000 that does a similar job but requiring significantly more power.


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## Brules (Sep 22, 2017)

Dan Merrits Challenger won Triple Crown 2 years in a row with 2 13w7s sealed. Don’t say it won’t/can’t do SQ lol. That car is beyond amazing. Oh and it will do 150db as well. Box has to be right but when it is, amazing sub.


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## openglcg (Jun 23, 2018)

some sundown subs CAN be used in SQL type setups. Unfortunately these tend to require massive ammounts of space because the fs on the smaller models tends to be a bit high for sq duty. And they are designed for low extension. So you want an x or zv5. 15" or 18". And a box and port big enough to get a 30hz or lower tuning without chuffing. Tune any higher than 30hz and you will get too much output at 40hz to sound good imo. A 6" aero port will work for the 15s but you want to avoid having line of sight on it. Highly mechanially linear subs with large xmax, low enough fs, and big shorting rings. Yeah they sound GOOD when installed correctly. And output for the price will outclass w7s. Although the space reqiurements might will be bigger but for that you get more extension.


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## Polkster99 (Mar 5, 2019)

Mashburn said:


> I wouldn’t say it destroys them. I have heard a W7 in a properly built potted enclosure. It was a good sounding sub and had lots of volume.
> Plus the W7 is 1000 from JL, while the Stereo Integrity is 359... FS are .8 hz difference, sensitivity is almost identical, (less than 1DB) SI beats it in xmax by 1 mm.
> Other parameters are extremely close as well. To come in and bash other brands is a little crazy, especially since they are the top subs at the moment.
> 
> ...


I thought i read on the SI home page the the RM 12 was listed at $460 is that correct?


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