# Anything Better than IDMAX for SQL Nowadays?



## djadams (Jan 17, 2011)

I've been out of the car audio loop for the last few years, and I'm itching to upgrade from my IDMAX 12", if that is possible, sometime this year. I'm looking for 60/40 SQ/SPL and I'd like it to get deeper and louder than my IDMAX, while staying between 600-1000RMS. Price range is $300-400.

Music preference is electronic, dubstep, synthpop, dancepop, hiphop, and rock. [Gorillaz, Kid Cudi, MGMT, Daft Punk, Girl Talk, Crystal Castles, Ratatat, Kanye West, Muse, Modest Mouse, Magnetic Man, DJ Tiesto, Mt. Eden, Passion Pit, Empire of the Sun, Hot Chip, Animal Collective, Arcade Fire, Royksopp, Caribou, Depeche Mode, Ok GO!, etc etc]

I tried my IDMAX in a 1.37cuft sealed and 1.88cuft ported to 32hz, and I definitely liked the sealed sound better... sounded deeper, cleaner, and more impactful. 

Will be going in the trunk of an Accord. Fronts are ID CXS64 V2. Would just get another IDMAX but I would rather not have to upgrade my alternator, especially if I can find something that sounds better and louder than my IDMAX while staying within the same power limits.

Will be purchasing an amp to match whatever sub I end up getting.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Keep your sub, contact this guy... PWK Designs


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## ncv6coupe (Oct 25, 2009)

Bandpass box through the rear deck, will have to be bigger enclosure because I think 1.88 cube is choking off that supersub. I know you've read it 50 times already on this site, Hoffmans Iron Law is king!

BTW I also own an accord if that would sway your opinion somewhat......


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## djadams (Jan 17, 2011)

fish - Will do.

ncv6coupe - I also feel 1.88cuft is on the small side for a ported box, but that is what the shop that built it thought would be prime. ID tech sheet for IDMAX lists a small ported box as 2.0 @ 32hz, and normal as 2.55 @ 28hz, which I found out later. I really liked the sealed sound, so I'm not sure if I should just have another sealed box made since I no longer have my last one, or if I should give ported another shot according to ID specs and try 2.55 @ 28hz. What differences would I hear in a bigger ported box compared to what I have now? Do you think I would get back some of what I loved about my sealed box?

Other than that, is IDMAX still the king? Dealers around here have Arc Audio, JL, Hertz, Audison, Ascendant Audio, and the typical Pioneer, Sony, etc. Arc's best seems to be the Flatline, but from what I read the IDMAX is better. Hertz seems pretty expensive, could afford the HX 300 but don't know how that would compare. All I've heard is that it is very different. Audison is pretty much too expensive. Know nothing about Ascendant Audio, and I'm staying away from the B&M names.


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

It's entirely possible that my box building skills suck but I built the ported 28hz box that ID recommends for my IDMAX and I can honestly say that I like it better sealed. I've had a lot of subs over the years but I believe the IDMAX is the finest.

Mark


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## ncv6coupe (Oct 25, 2009)

never looked at the spec sheet for the max but I was playing around in winisd just now and came up with [email protected] hz. trade off box size for a shorter port length and higher midbass port resonance buttttttttttttt I used no less than 32 sq inches of port. THAT LARGER PORTED BOX WOULD SMASH THE SEALED AND YOUR CURRENT PORTED BOX DOWN LOW IN THE SUBSONICS, no less than +3 dbs below 30 when using under 500watts. does your amp have a subsonic filter though, you would be better off with one set at 15hz if you will be running 1000 watts or that max is gonna be in the non linear range but I think it has some suspension to spare. Its all about funneling the output into the cabin and ONLY to the cabin. Thats how you really get mad db'z son.  or you also could ram your box wayy up to the back of the trunk and take away all your trunk space. that would help with phase too so to sum that up is that box is butt and build a bigger one or another 1 of them in a similar small ported box and crank it up.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

while i dont think the idmax is king, i doubt switching it for another 1000 watt sql sub u will notice a huge difference.

u want louder and deeper, gotta go ported. if the box was too small it probably did sound funny. build the right size box and u will love it. it wont lose any sq over sealed if its built right.

i had two 10s sealed, it didnt get low, wasnt loud enough. built my first ported box ever and i wouldnt trade it, ever again, unless maybe im old and dont want it to be loud. i didnt notice 1 bit of difference in sq, but it gets low, and way louder.


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

I would just add another, the Max is fine off 500 watts i actually used to run 1 on a Memphis MC500D, i sold it to a friend who added another identical sub and amp and it was amazing.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

Cruzer said:


> build the right size box and u will love it. it wont lose any sq over sealed if its built right.


I agree.

Call the guys at ID and they will help you get the most out of your one sub by building the proper enclosure for your wants and needs.


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## jaejw1 (Jul 2, 2007)

why not ditch the box idea and mount the sub IB... or is this not popular anymore


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

djadams said:


> I've been out of the car audio loop for the last few years, and I'm itching to upgrade from my IDMAX 12", if that is possible, sometime this year. I'm looking for 60/40 SQ/SPL and I'd like it to get deeper and louder than my IDMAX, while staying between 600-1000RMS. Price range is $300-400.
> 
> Music preference is electronic, dubstep, synthpop, dancepop, hiphop, and rock. [Gorillaz, Kid Cudi, MGMT, Daft Punk, Girl Talk, Crystal Castles, Ratatat, Kanye West, Muse, Modest Mouse, Magnetic Man, DJ Tiesto, Mt. Eden, Passion Pit, Empire of the Sun, Hot Chip, Animal Collective, Arcade Fire, Royksopp, Caribou, Depeche Mode, Ok GO!, etc etc]
> 
> ...


I've been building subwoofers for about twenty years now. My all time favorite subwoofer is a clone I made of Tom Danley's TH-Mini. You can buy the Mini from Tom for about $1500 IIRC. Or you can clone it using the B&C 12PS100 from Parts Express, which costs $180. My clone of the sub uses a P Audio woofer which sells for $120. You can also use a Dayton prosound sub which sells for $80, I forget the model number.

Here's a list of the things that I like about the TH-Mini:


I have built subs which go lower, and I have built subs which are smaller, but I have never built a sub which balances efficiency, power handling and sound quality so well.
My clone uses plywood and a neodymium woofer. Because of this, it is INSANELY easy to cart around. I really like having a subwoofer that I can easily remove from my car if I need to haul something. I know that most people opt for using a very small subwoofer and keeping it in their car 100% of the time. I personally prefer to use a much larger subwoofer, and I remove it when I need to haul stuff. The advantage of going this route is that bigger subs will always play louder and get more efficient than small subs. Hoffman's Iron Law cannot be broken.
If you are a DJ, the TH-Mini can be used at your gigs. I use my clone in the car AND at home, and it would work great in a club too.
The TH-Mini is a full-on prosound sub. And because of that, the power ratings are very conservative. While the warranty only allows for the use of 1,4000 watts, I wouldn't be shocked to see it take three or four thousand. You *MUST* use a highpass filter if you're using more than a few hundred watts, to protect the suspension.

Google "small tapped horn for the car", the thread is here somewhere. Or buy a TH-Mini from Danley. Or build one of jbell's clones from diyaudio.

I was actually listening to Caspa's Essential Mix from Radio One on my TH-Mini clones last night. It can definitely do justice to dubstep.

Here's some data to back up my claims also:















The pic above shows three sub boxes. The aluminum sub uses two Dayton 12" woofers. The box it's sitting on is my TH-Mini clone, with a P-Audio twelve. Soda can is for reference, to give you an idea of the size. The graph shows the response of both subwoofers, at the same voltage. You can see in the measurements that the TH-Mini Clone STOMPS the dual 12. We're talking over six dB more output at 60hz! That's like going from 1000 watts to 4000 watts. Even more mind bending is that the impedance is higher! Just crazy crazy efficiency. And the power handling is wicked too. And it sounds great. It's just an amazing sub.

The red trace is my clone, blue trace is the dual 12. Tom's box will outperform mine by a wide margin. That's because the B&C is a better woofer than the P Audio, and Tom's a much more talented loudspeaker designer than I am. So you can DIY for cheap, or if you have the funds, buy Tom's.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

jaejw1 said:


> why not ditch the box idea and mount the sub IB... or is this not popular anymore


is IB going to be louder than ported?

ive never heard a IB setup so i cant say, if it is, i would def do that, and heck he could add another and go IB anyways because it wont need the whole 1000 watts to be loud and reach its limits


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

IB wont be louder


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

djadams said:


> Will be going in the trunk of an Accord. Fronts are ID CXS64 V2. Would just get another IDMAX but I would rather not have to upgrade my alternator, especially if I can find something that sounds better and louder than my IDMAX while staying within the same power limits.


How about buy another, and do infinite baffle? u can use the same amp u have now as long as u can wire the subs to get 500 each and it will be louder than 1. it will still have great SQ, its just like a sealed box because u seal off the front from the back, but it takes less wattage to make them reach their limits. so 500 should be plenty.

someone correct me if im wrong or a little off please


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## bkjay (Jul 7, 2009)

@Patrick Bateman thanks for the info. I will look this up.


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## jaejw1 (Jul 2, 2007)

Cruzer said:


> How about buy another, and do infinite baffle? u can use the same amp u have now as long as u can wire the subs to get 500 each and it will be louder than 1. it will still have great SQ, its just like a sealed box because u seal off the front from the back, but it takes less wattage to make them reach their limits. so 500 should be plenty.
> 
> someone correct me if im wrong or a little off please


I had two idmax subs before,, both in sealed enclosures powered by a TRU Technology TO3 2.250.. Even though they were loud they didn't sound anything like a single idmax IB mounted... 

I personally enjoyed the sound of the aperiodic enclosure though but I was extremely happy with my IB mount... I would still like to do an AP though


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

bkjay said:


> @Patrick Bateman thanks for the info. I will look this up.


No prob! Also, the woofer that I used costs $120 and isn't made anymore. I've updated the plans for everyone. Here are the improvements:


Switched from a $120 P-Audio woofer to a $75 Eminence woofer
Switched to a woofer that's readily available. Parts Express and US Speakers stock it.
The woofer weighs less than four pounds. Four pounds!!! I can't tell you how much I hate lugging around 150lb sub boxes.

Link:

Audio Psychosis • View topic - One Hundred Dollar SQL Sub


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## ebrahim (Sep 21, 2009)

Incriminator Audio is better


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

ebrahim said:


> Incriminator Audio is better


proof?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

ebrahim said:


> Incriminator Audio is better


better how? if you are into SPL, sure. most of thier subs handle retarded amounts of power and tune great at 45hz.  you want SQ, that is not the first place I would look.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

IDmax = IDq with more umph

Nice 15 month thread bump btw


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

not really. they dont share any hardware and the specs are completely different.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Sound pretty similar to me


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## eye_see_you (Jan 14, 2012)

i'm in the process of working with my builder on a box for my IDMAX 10. He has came up with a 2.5 CF box with a 6 inch port. This thing was being fed 500 watts and totally blew my mind in how low it got and how loud. Now imagine how it will be once I get it in my car being fed off teh sub channel of my zuki 5 channel class D. I think that if your box design is changed you will notice a major improvement as I have been amazed by my local shop installed customizing this box


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

While IA is more SPL based I sure would like a pair of these...

Incriminator Audio: No Chrome, No Carbon Fiber, No BS! Period

Underhung motor...


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