# Will upgrading my wire from 8 gauge to 4 gauge make any difference ?



## Hot_Sauce (Aug 8, 2008)

I was told that with 4Gauge wire my AMP will get more power and in result getting/throwing more power to the subs which he said will make the sub hit even smoother/better. 

My amplifier is currently working @ 300RMS hooked to a 12inch polk audio subwoofer


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## Philth (Jan 23, 2011)

8 AWG should be okay for 300 watts. See how much voltage is dropping when the bass hits.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

What model amplifier do you have?


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Take a look at this: Recommended Power and Ground Cable Sizes & Speaker Wire Size and Length

The answer is that "it depends" on the length of your power wire run. If you are less than 12 feet from your battery, your 8 gauge wire should be fine. Depending on the music you listen to and your listening habits, you may be fine with an 8 gauge run up to 20 feet. 

The only time I recommend using larger wire than necessary is when Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA) is used over pure copper, like in my sister's car. Her amp requires 40 amps of fusing, but 4 gauge CCA was WAY cheaper than 8 gauge copper.


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## Hot_Sauce (Aug 8, 2008)

Angrywhopper said:


> What model amplifier do you have?


Kenwood kac-8104d from online car stereo



Philth said:


> 8 AWG should be okay for 300 watts. See how much voltage is dropping when the bass hits.


'I dont know but the lights do dim alot when deep base notes are dropped.



ChrisB said:


> Depending on the music you listen to and your listening habits, you may be fine with an 8 gauge run up to 20 feet. .


I listen to rap with heavy bass and trance.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Also change the speaker wire to 4-gauge wire and the remote wire to 8-gauge. You will notice how the bass get tighter and will blow your mind away.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

TrickyRicky said:


> Also change the speaker wire to 4-gauge wire and the remote wire to 8-gauge. You will notice how the bass get tighter and will blow your mind away.


 People are actually going to think this is real advice if you post stuff like that.

What kinda car do you have? What 8GA do you currently have? That amp should be fine with a good 8GA amp kit, so that leads us to 2 conclusions, you have a small car with a small alternator and thus can't supply enough current when idling or at low rpms, or your "8GA" kit is some really cheap not so 8GA kit that is causing you problems.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

FAUEE said:


> People are actually going to think this is real advice if you post stuff like that.
> 
> What kinda car do you have? What 8GA do you currently have? That amp should be fine with a good 8GA amp kit, so that leads us to 2 conclusions, you have a small car with a small alternator and thus can't supply enough current when idling or at low rpms, or your "8GA" kit is some really cheap not so 8GA kit that is causing you problems.


+1..


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## Philth (Jan 23, 2011)

Or maybe a weak ground?


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM??????? He asked a simple question.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

TrickyRicky said:


> WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM??????? He asked a simple question.


there IS no problem, he ask if the upgrade would make a difference... 

and as everyone but you has stated, it depends..


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Light dimming has absolutly nothing to do with what size of wire you use for your amplifier. Thats why I said the whole bigger wire would cure your problem (if thats the problem??).
It simply means your audio system/equipment pulls more current that what the alternator and battery can supply. Upgrade both and then your problem would be solve (well atleast the light dimming).


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Do you actually think it makes a difference???? If the amplifier is doing what its suppost to do and the wiring doesnt get hot to the touch then its also doing its job. If you want to be on the safe side, then yes upgrade to bigger wire, would that increase any power or SQ ==== HELL NOOO!!. <--- there you go, thats my answer.

In my younger days I hooked up an amplifier that could pull around 60-80amps and I used 10-gauge wire (yes I know real stupid) and the amp was about 15 feet away. Well I notice a weird smell everytime I turned up the volume and quickly notice it was the power wire getting extremly hot. Upgraded to 4-gauge wire and never had that problem again.


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## Philth (Jan 23, 2011)

Light dimming is voltage drop, correct? So if the ground was weak, wouldn't that contribute to it?


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Step one, that is free: Go to an autoparts place and have them test your charging system.

Step two, make sure your alternator to chasis ground is good (or engine to chasis)

Step three, make sure your battery to chasis ground is good.

(the above are not only important for your stereo, but also car)

Step four, measure the voltage at you amplifier wiring terminals when it plays loud. How low does it get.

Step five, verify the integrity of your amplifier ground. 

If you want help, take pictures under your hood and of your amp install. With one closeup on the power wire. Those are just a few of the things I would do...


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Its funny to me how people actually think that their will be a difference in 16-gauge wire to 10-gauge wire when powering speakers. I compared those two sizes of wire to some subwoofers and same amplifier (about 500-600watts) and no difference at all only on how much thicker 10gauge over 16-gauge.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

TrickyRicky said:


> Its funny to me how people actually think that their will be a difference in 16-gauge wire to 10-gauge wire when powering speakers. I compared those two sizes of wire to some subwoofers and same amplifier (about 500-600watts) and no difference at all only on how much thicker 10gauge over 16-gauge.


To me, the issue is damping factor when we are talking subwoofers. Have you seen the numbers at and amp and then after just a short piece of wire?


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

There is a major drawback to using too large of wire to your speakers. Since all wire today is twisted strands, the path that the electrons have to take is much larger to go AROUND larger piece of wire. So this increased difference will totally screw up your imaging due to the increased distance the electrons have travel. The only way to fix this is to use a DSP with time adjustment, or use analog time adjustment by coiling up excess wire to your other speakers to balance it out, which requires complex calculations. So too large of wire going to speakers will screw up your timing.

[/overly obvious sarcasm]


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

[/overly obvious sarcasm] 

(dude, you gotta turn it ON to be able to turn it off... now no one will know you were just joking!)


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## Hot_Sauce (Aug 8, 2008)

FAUEE said:


> People are actually going to think this is real advice if you post stuff like that.
> 
> What kinda car do you have? What 8GA do you currently have? That amp should be fine with a good 8GA amp kit, so that leads us to 2 conclusions, you have a small car with a small alternator and thus can't supply enough current when idling or at low rpms, or your "8GA" kit is some really cheap not so 8GA kit that is causing you problems.


I have a 2005 toyota camry....and yes I am running some cheap Chinese no name 8g cable


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

TrickyRicky said:


> Its funny to me how people actually think that their will be a difference in 16-gauge wire to 10-gauge wire when powering speakers. I compared those two sizes of wire to some subwoofers and same amplifier (about 500-600watts) and no difference at all only on how much thicker 10gauge over 16-gauge.


AND even considering measuring minute changes in something like wire is COMPLETELY SILLY on a sub... 

Talk about masking distortion and being solely dependent on enclosure for it's over all "sound" 

You removed any validity you had in this thread.. :laugh:


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

JOey Knapp said:


> To me, the issue is damping factor when we are talking subwoofers. Have you seen the numbers at and amp and then after just a short piece of wire?



Dude,what are you trying to say,here...please explain


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Damping factor is a useless spec, there's a thread for that.
Anyway, get your self a cheapest multimeter and start taking measurements on your amp, wire to the lights.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Damping factor a useless spec? Maybe when the manufacture lies about it then it becomes a useless spec. All I can say is my 5002 w/feedback circuit kicks ass and has absolute control of the woofers. I notice how much tighter the bass was and how the cone had quicker faster movements and just better sound. So I think damping factor does play a role. Its when manufactures start stating craziy numbers like 400ish or even higher.

Jerri McCord was telling me a story about how him and a team (cant remember which one) manufactured this amp with a crazy amount of damping factor that it was "UNMUSICAL" so they had to redesign it with longer traces/audio paths and move some componenets to lower down the damping factor to a more MUSICAL level.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Philth said:


> Light dimming is voltage drop, correct? So if the ground was weak, wouldn't that contribute to it?


An improper connection or wire size on the amp would lead to an inability of the amp to pull the current it wants and thus the opposite of a voltage drop to the total system. The wire or connection would heat up from the inability to sustain the current flow and as a result the increased temp would further impede the flow of current (ie power compression). Reducing the load even further. If it keeps going, depending on the power, it would burn up the improper path or point.


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

Hot_Sauce said:


> I have a 2005 toyota camry....and yes I am running some cheap Chinese no name 8g cable


Those are your two problems then. Your cheap Chinese cable is likely CCA and causing a big voltage drop, and your factory alternator likely can't put out much current at all.

It couldn't hurt to upgrade to a decent quality 4 or even 8 gauge kit (Kicker, Rockford, JL, Monster), though I wouldn't go so far as to say it will fix the problem. Most cars have fairly small alternators that put out well under 100A peak, and at idle put out a pittance of current. Now not only does that pittance have to run all your vehicle's original electronics and charge the battery from starting the car, now you're asking it to provide even more current to power aftermarket amps. It simply cannot keep up with it.

The new wire might help with it, but I doubt it will be fixed 100%.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> An improper connection or wire size on the amp would lead to an inability of the amp to pull the current it wants and thus the opposite of a voltage drop to the total system. The wire or connection would heat up from the inability to sustain the current flow and as a result the increased temp would further impede the flow of current (ie power compression). Reducing the load even further. If it keeps going, depending on the power, it would burn up the improper path or point.



Awesome..!!


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Hot_Sauce said:


> I have a 2005 toyota camry....and yes I am running some cheap Chinese no name 8g cable


I would side with FAUEE on this one... 



> Those are your two problems then. Your cheap Chinese cable is likely CCA and causing a big voltage drop, and your factory alternator likely can't put out much current at all.
> 
> It couldn't hurt to upgrade to a decent quality 4 or even 8 gauge kit (Kicker, Rockford, JL, Monster), though I wouldn't go so far as to say it will fix the problem. Most cars have fairly small alternators that put out well under 100A peak, and at idle put out a pittance of current. Now not only does that pittance have to run all your vehicle's original electronics and charge the battery from starting the car, now you're asking it to provide even more current to power aftermarket amps. It simply cannot keep up with it.
> 
> The new wire might help with it, but I doubt it will be fixed 100%.


In this case, I would agree that a wire upgrade would help... it's also cheaper than buying a new amp... If it DOESN'T help... well, you've got up-graded wire, which, in my eyes, considering costs of upgrades, is cheap insurance for later..

I've run a 60a alt in my Subaru in that past with 1500+wrms... had some dimming, but I wasn't a Bass'Nazi either..


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

TrickyRicky said:


> Damping factor a useless spec? Maybe when the manufacture lies about it then it becomes a useless spec. All I can say is my 5002 w/feedback circuit kicks ass and has absolute control of the woofers. I notice how much tighter the bass was and how the cone had quicker faster movements and just better sound. So I think damping factor does play a role. Its when manufactures start stating craziy numbers like 400ish or even higher.


I believe you are mixing up damping factor with the servo modification.

The only time I should have concerned myself with damping factor was when I used to DJ and had a complete mobile setup 10+ years ago. My speaker runs were anywhere from 10 feet for a super small venue to 100 feet for a larger venue. Of course, I didn't care about damping factor for cone control, I cared about damping factor to keep my Peavey or Crown amplifiers from going up in smoke due to the back EMF from the speakers themselves.

Now here is one that will blow your mind. While the servo drive touts a lower harmonic distortion from your speakers, if you were to put your amplifier on an Audio Precision, you may be shocked. I'd be willing to bet you lunch that an amplifier with NO servo has a lower measured THD+N than the amplifier with the servo, provided both are in proper working order! Of course, in my case, I could use the same amp because my servo is external!


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## blaze72575 (May 15, 2012)

First thing first, stop worrying about your system and worry about your car. Most four cylinder cars are made with alternators that are just strong enough to run the car, and now you have added things to the power draw. The wire you are using is a factor but unless you are running a competition level system CCA is fine just buy 2 gauge when it calls for 4 or even 1/0. Also be sure what you buy is truly that size and not just covering. However once again stop worrying about your system, and focus on your car. If you have done any other mods like aftermarket head unit, new lights, or upgraded bulbs, or anything that is drawing any power then you need to upgrade the alternator, and battery.

Now when it comes to your wire. OFC is the best but if you aren't running a competition system, or your not going for extreme spl, then CCA like I said is fine, just heavier gauge. Think of wire and electrons like a water pipe and water. You can have the best pressure in the world but when you force it to run through a small pipe you will only cause resistance and not get the full power of the water at that pressure, but if you match the pressure to the right pipe then you can flow more water at that constant high pressure resulting in better flow and performance.


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## EriCCirE (Apr 14, 2010)

You can get away with CCA, but If you want to do it right, use OFC.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

300 watt amp shouldnt cause lights to dim, i would just throw a 2nd battery in the trunk if that was my situation.


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## TwoDrink (Aug 26, 2009)

blaze72575 said:


> First thing first, stop worrying about your system and worry about your car. Most four cylinder cars are made with alternators that are just strong enough to run the car, and now you have added things to the power draw. The wire you are using is a factor but unless you are running a competition level system CCA is fine just buy 2 gauge when it calls for 4 or even 1/0. Also be sure what you buy is truly that size and not just covering. However once again stop worrying about your system, and focus on your car. If you have done any other mods like aftermarket head unit, new lights, or upgraded bulbs, or anything that is drawing any power then you need to upgrade the alternator, and battery.
> 
> Now when it comes to your wire. OFC is the best but if you aren't running a competition system, or your not going for extreme spl, then CCA like I said is fine, just heavier gauge. Think of wire and electrons like a water pipe and water. You can have the best pressure in the world but when you force it to run through a small pipe you will only cause resistance and not get the full power of the water at that pressure, but if you match the pressure to the right pipe then you can flow more water at that constant high pressure resulting in better flow and performance.


 You made my head hurt.:dizzy:


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## Thechumman (Mar 31, 2020)

Hot_Sauce said:


> I was told that with 4Gauge wire my AMP will get more power and in result getting/throwing more power to the subs which he said will make the sub hit even smoother/better.
> 
> My amplifier is currently working @ 300RMS hooked to a 12inch polk audio subwoofer
> [/QUOTE





Hot_Sauce said:


> I was told that with 4Gauge wire my AMP will get more power and in result getting/throwing more power to the subs which he said will make the sub hit even smoother/better.
> 
> My amplifier is currently working @ 300RMS hooked to a 12inch polk audio subwoofer


Unless you’re 8Gauge wire is SUPER SUPER long (like 35ft or more) you should be just fine. You shouldn’t have to worry about getting any bigger wire if your amp is pushing 300watts rms. You may have to upgrade to a bigger wire if you were pushing 1000+ watts.


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## stegmsk (Dec 2, 2012)




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