# Help Me Add or Remove Something



## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

I'm looking to do a horn setup in a 2000 Jetta GLS so I'm thinking the minis would be ideal in this scenario. I'll be using a mid-level CarPC setup (motherboard focused on audio) so I think I may have a good idea here on what I want (going from headunit to speakers:

Lilliput 7" capacitive monitor
Onboard PC with ALC898
3sixty.3 DSP
PDX-F6
Drivers from a set of ID XS65s
Minis

Any thoughts on this? Should I upgrade my midbass with something else? Is a subwoofer more necessary with horns?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Suggest you use: 
Eighteen Sound Speakers - Eighteen Sound 6ND430 - Eighteen Sound 6ND430 6.5" woofer has a lightweight neodymium magnet. Eighteen Sound 6ND430 6.5" subwoofers are available here. 18 Sound speaker components. (4 ohm version) instead of the ID XS65 - the 18Sound is a better driver 

For an even sound reproduction, I always suggest to use a subwoofer, even a small 10" will work better than no sub... 

Kelvin


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## roduk (Sep 19, 2008)

6nd430's are great but lack bass in a big way, if your NOT going to have a sub, use bigger 18sound drivers


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

How concerned are you about SQ? 

Are you willing to build kick panel pods or buy Q-Logic Q-Forms?


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

subwoofery said:


> Suggest you use:
> Eighteen Sound Speakers - Eighteen Sound 6ND430 - Eighteen Sound 6ND430 6.5" woofer has a lightweight neodymium magnet. Eighteen Sound 6ND430 6.5" subwoofers are available here. 18 Sound speaker components. (4 ohm version) instead of the ID XS65 - the 18Sound is a better driver
> 
> For an even sound reproduction, I always suggest to use a subwoofer, even a small 10" will work better than no sub...
> ...


Awesome, informative response! I think I'll be going with either a DD 9510i or a JL 10w6. Any other recommendations on a 10" sub? It'll be in a sealed fiberglass enclosure so space may be limiting. 



roduk said:


> 6nd430's are great but lack bass in a big way, if your NOT going to have a sub, use bigger 18sound drivers


I think I'll throw a sub in there. 



edouble101 said:


> How concerned are you about SQ?
> 
> Are you willing to build kick panel pods or buy Q-Logic Q-Forms?


SQ is pretty big for me honestly. I am really seeking a mobile "boombox" that I can play music and not have it be super distorted when I go bridge jumping with friends and the like. Kick panels are highly unlikely as this will be in a Mk4 Jetta.

Are all of the other components fitting to this build? Just wondering.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Broshi said:


> Awesome, informative response! I think I'll be going with either a DD 9510i or a JL 10w6. Any other recommendations on a 10" sub? It'll be in a sealed fiberglass enclosure so space may be limiting.


Any of the 2 would be fine. 

Kelvin


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Broshi said:


> Awesome, informative response! I think I'll be going with either a DD 9510i or a JL 10w6. Any other recommendations on a 10" sub? It'll be in a sealed fiberglass enclosure so space may be limiting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It looks like your goal is loud and clear while not so much being focused on imaging. Since kick panels are not the best option for you, you maybe limited to smaller midbass driver. (BTW I drive a five speed with 8" midbass in the kicks)

The W6 line-up from JL are great subwoofers. Just keep in mind you will not have tons of output from a single 10" subwoofer. You may want to step it up to two 10" or two 12" since you will be using your vehicle for outdoor mobile entertainment.

What is your budget for the midbass drivers?

I personally would use a different amp. You might find more power to your midbass and less power to your horns better especially if you buy an 8 ohm midbass. The horns have extremely high sensitivity that you can not match with a midbass driver. This is why you want staggered power, 3-4x times more power to the midbass than the horns.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Broshi said:


> I'm looking to do a horn setup in a 2000 Jetta GLS so I'm thinking the minis would be ideal in this scenario. I'll be using a mid-level CarPC setup (motherboard focused on audio) so I think I may have a good idea here on what I want (going from headunit to speakers:
> 
> Lilliput 7" capacitive monitor
> Onboard PC with ALC898
> ...


sorry, but what do subs have to do with horns? if you want bass, then yes they are necessary.

I use the X65 with my minis and they sound fantastic. nice midbass and midrange of those will play higher than you cross them, so they work very well.


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

subwoofery said:


> Any of the 2 would be fine.
> 
> Kelvin


Great! I'll look further into this. I'm thinking my total cost for all of this will be right around $3,500. That includes the cost of the monitor, processor, amplifiers, drivers, sub and horns. What would be your ideal setup with that sort of budget in mind?



edouble101 said:


> It looks like your goal is loud and clear while not so much being focused on imaging. Since kick panels are not the best option for you, you maybe limited to smaller midbass driver. (BTW I drive a five speed with 8" midbass in the kicks)
> 
> The W6 line-up from JL are great subwoofers. Just keep in mind you will not have tons of output from a single 10" subwoofer. You may want to step it up to two 10" or two 12" since you will be using your vehicle for outdoor mobile entertainment.
> 
> ...


Honest to god I'm looking for a high grade setup while still retaining an OEM style feel. In that aspect, I feel kick panels will throw that off a little. Imaging is a very important aspect of sound, but I'm trying to retain form. Yes the drivers are what I'm looking at and are 6.5". 

With regards to budget on the midbass, I'm looking at <$400. With a $3,500 ideal budget, I'm thinking I'm going to get pretty close with the equipment listed. My mobile electronics instructor is hellbent on not using horns because they are "oldschool" and there are better products. I'm determined to prove him wrong. 

What would you recommend for the amps? I have $1,000 to budget on amps.



minbari said:


> sorry, but what do subs have to do with horns? if you want bass, then yes they are necessary.
> 
> I use the X65 with my minis and they sound fantastic. nice midbass and midrange of those will play higher than you cross them, so they work very well.


I didn't think subs were necessary in a system with horns. I guess the purpose would be to balance the output. I've heard many good things about X65.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Broshi said:


> Great! I'll look further into this. I'm thinking my total cost for all of this will be right around $3,500. That includes the cost of the monitor, processor, amplifiers, drivers, sub and horns. What would be your ideal setup with that sort of budget in mind?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you realize that horns only play ~1100hz and up? if you dont have any subs, you wont have any bass. the two really have nothing to do with one another


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

There are a lot of pro audio 6.5" drivers available that will fit your budget. Search for a pair that will fit in your doors. Do you know what our maximum mounting depth is?

Just keep in mind that your soundstage will be drawn down to the doors somewhat. Using a mini hlcd you will need to cross them in the 1.2khz range. There is a good chunk of midrange in this area. This is why kick panels are such a better idea. Bigger driver for better midbass plus better staging. 

Search for a two channel amplifier that has about 25-50 wrms @ 8 ohms for the horns. And another that is 150-200wrms for the midbass.


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

Here is an equipment list that will be under budget  This gives you some cash for wiring and other installation equipment.

All are sonicelectronix prices :
HLCD amp : Rockford Fosgate P200-2 $129.99
Midbass amp : Rockford Fosgate P500x2 $289.99
(2) Image Dynamics X65 4ohm $680 (if they fit your doors)
---total = $1099.98


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

one other piece of advise for running horns. make sure you have a really clean amplifier for them. since they are so sensitive, any little bit of distortion is amplified alot. You are really only gonna be using 5-10 watts on these for normal listening.


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

edouble101 said:


> There are a lot of pro audio 6.5" drivers available that will fit your budget. Search for a pair that will fit in your doors. Do you know what our maximum mounting depth is?
> 
> Just keep in mind that your soundstage will be drawn down to the doors somewhat. Using a mini hlcd you will need to cross them in the 1.2khz range. There is a good chunk of midrange in this area. This is why kick panels are such a better idea. Bigger driver for better midbass plus better staging.
> 
> Search for a two channel amplifier that has about 25-50 wrms @ 8 ohms for the horns. And another that is 150-200wrms for the midbass.


Thanks for the info there! My mounting depth is < 3". Soundstage being drawn is okay so long as it's not hugely noticeable. Any recommendations on amps??



edouble101 said:


> Here is an equipment list that will be under budget  This gives you some cash for wiring and other installation equipment.
> 
> All are sonicelectronix prices :
> HLCD amp : Rockford Fosgate P200-2 $129.99
> ...


Awesome thanks for the suggestions!



minbari said:


> one other piece of advise for running horns. make sure you have a really clean amplifier for them. since they are so sensitive, any little bit of distortion is amplified alot. You are really only gonna be using 5-10 watts on these for normal listening.


Any recommendations on clean running amps?


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

Okay okay okay I've done a little bit of research and came up with the following:

*Amps & DSP*
RF 3sixty.3 DSP
RF P200x2 for horns
RF P500x2 for drivers
SD SAZ-2500D V.2 for sub

*Speakers*
18 Sound 6nd430
ESA Pro Minis
DD 9510

*Wiring*
0/1 Kolossus from alternator to T joint in between starter and battery (in trunk)
0/1 Kolossus from starter to battery
0/1 Kolossus from battery to ground
4 gauge Kolossus from battery (+/-) to amps
Krystal RCAs all around (1/2m should work for the application)
Karma SS all around (not sure if 8 or 10 gauge yet)

*Other*
Full line up of sound deadening from SDS
DC alternator (220 amp hot idle/320 max)
Optima yellow top

You can tell I'm quite the advocate for Knu as I've found their products to be of decent quality. I'd be up for making my own RCAs, but I hear good things about the Krystal RCAs. I'm a little weary on my amp selection as I know RF has good products, but I'm not sure if there is 'better' out there. I don't want to buy a product for this that will serve as a weak link. Since my battery is in my trunk, I only have to run one length of 0/1 down the length of the car, and then I just have to run small lengths of 4 to my amps.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

are those the prime or punch series amplifiers? for what you are wanting, I wouldnt get the prime series.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

switch to JL HD900/5 for the horns and sub. pick up a 600/4 for the mids.
and then buy my 6ND430 that are just sitting on a garage shelf.


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## Broshi (Jun 9, 2012)

minbari said:


> are those the prime or punch series amplifiers? for what you are wanting, I wouldnt get the prime series.


Punch series for sure. I would get the T series if it really fit my application enough. 



Mic10is said:


> switch to JL HD900/5 for the horns and sub. pick up a 600/4 for the mids.
> and then buy my 6ND430 that are just sitting on a garage shelf.


Should I bridge the 600/4 for the mids? I would love to run a 900/5, but I'm going to need quite a large amplifier if I want to run a 9510. For that reason, I may stick with the 200x2. I would LOVE to have a uniform look and use the same brand amp for all amps, but with the major differences in power distribution between speakers, I think it'll be difficult to find something that fits. 

I would LOVE to buy your speakers if they haven't been beaten to all hell! May I ask what you had replaced them with and if you recommend using your current mids over the 18sound?


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