# Is There Such a Thing as a Pro Adviser?



## dps (Mar 11, 2009)

Is there a place where I could find an adviser that hires out for impartial but expert advice?

In general, if I go to anyplace that has anything to sell, that's what they'll recommend; the brands they carry. There are two problems to this, at least as I see it. One, how do I know that the guy knows what he's talking about in the first place if I know next-to-nothing myself? Two, how do I know that I've stumbled upon the right retailer of products; if they only sell Brand X, how do I find out that Brand Y might have been a better choice (but this retailer doesn't sell that Brand)?

As a comparison, what if I was looking for a new car? If I go to a GM dealership, I first have to try to determine if the salesman I "get" even knows much about cars to ask me the right questions. Even if he somehow demonstrates that he is knowledgeable, I'm almost certain that once I describe my needs and budget that he's not going to send me to a Ford dealer, even if that might have been the better answer for me. But you can find auto consultants that will advise for a fee.

Is there something like that for car stereo?

In my case, I want to keep my factory head unit, but upgrade the factory amp and speakers to a higher level. So I'm hoping to find someone who is familiar with what's already installed (a GM Bose system) and that could make some recommendations at a couple of price levels. What can I get for $100? For $1000? I can do the installs, I just don't know what specific purchases to make to end up with a properly matched system, etc.

Sorry about the wordiness, hoping someone can steer me in the right direction.

Thanks!


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## dbiegel (Oct 15, 2006)

I totally agree with what you're saying. I think a lot of us come to forums like this because of all the conflicts of interest in the industry.

So, in fact, the place to get what you're looking for is... right here.  There are a lot of experienced and knowledgable people on this forum. If you post some details of your car, what you're looking for, etc. I'm sure someone can help you out with some unbiased suggestions.


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## Iancredible (Sep 29, 2009)

dps said:


> Is there a place where I could find an adviser that hires out for impartial but expert advice?
> 
> In general, if I go to anyplace that has anything to sell, that's what they'll recommend; the brands they carry. There are two problems to this, at least as I see it. One, how do I know that the guy knows what he's talking about in the first place if I know next-to-nothing myself? Two, how do I know that I've stumbled upon the right retailer of products; if they only sell Brand X, how do I find out that Brand Y might have been a better choice (but this retailer doesn't sell that Brand)?
> 
> ...



From our standpoint (at least my shop) 

We carry the brands the we have found work the best, have the best warranty/protection(internet/knockoff), availability, manufacturing and reliability. Price point : is not really such a major issue for us. We sell what we sell for a reason, if people do not trust/believe us that is something we cannot control but can only attempt to prove incorrect. 

We have the opportunity to carry any line we want (at least at my store) and we have chosen the lines we have chosen for a reason. Now not all shops are the same and by any way equal. Just yesterday I had 3 reps stop in trying to get us to carry there respective brands. 

Almost every line that is out there has its pros and cons. I personally feel that I as a shop cannot sell you on the sound. Since what my ear enjoys is different from yours. My wallet is different that yours, etc etc

We happily install products supplied to us, our goal is to make our customers happy. Even if to achieve that is to lose a sale, we strive for honesty and integrity in everything we do.


All in all if you are going to a retailer and you do not trust them then I gotta ask

Why are you going to them?


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## dps (Mar 11, 2009)

"So, in fact, the place to get what you're looking for is... right here. "

Would I be best to do that in this sub-forum, the SQ forum, or another one? 

"All in all if you are going to a retailer and you do not trust them then I gotta ask Why are you going to them?" 

Well, that's the point; how can I tell which one to trust? Should it be a national place like Crutchfield's or a local Car Toys or an independent in a high-rent neighborhood, etc.? And then how do I know that the individual salesperson will happen to reasonably experienced?

I think in most purchases that you do better when you already know EITHER what you DO want (I want Brand A or Brand B) OR what you DON'T want (no thanks on Brand X or Brand Y).

"Almost every line that is out there has its pros and cons. I personally feel that I as a shop cannot sell you on the sound. Since what my ear enjoys is different from yours."

Agreed. I used to sell home audio (all too many years ago!). Same issues. You could only try to formulate your best suggestions based on what the customer told you regarding tastes and budget. But the salesperson's suggestions were still usually a little biased based upon personal tastes or which rep they liked, or especially which brand was paying SPIF's that week.

So I'm mostly hoping to find suggestions that would be pretty reasonable. It's doubtful that I would be able to A/B any of them at some particular store anyway. But I would like to avoid the expensive mistake of mis-matching if possible, and, after all this fuss, I'm only wanting to do a modest upgrade, I don't want to spend very much compared to many others, but I know the huge difference just exchanging speakers could make.

Thanks again!


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## Iancredible (Sep 29, 2009)

dps said:


> Well, that's the point; how can I tell which one to trust? Should it be a national place like Crutchfield's or a local Car Toys or an independent in a high-rent neighborhood, etc.? And then how do I know that the individual salesperson will happen to reasonably experienced?
> 
> I think in most purchases that you do better when you already know EITHER what you DO want (I want Brand A or Brand B) OR what you DON'T want (no thanks on Brand X or Brand Y).
> 
> ...


Honestly all you can do is "shop" the local stores, if you trust someone you can tell it within 15 minutes or not. "Shady car salesman" concept so to speak. 

then before you buy research the locations via forums, yelp.com, the BBB etc 

and ask questions, ask about certifications, training, experience, referrals. 

We have a vast referral list/testimonial list 

If a shop/retailer isn't forthcoming with that info, think twice.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

dbiegel said:


> I totally agree with what you're saying. I think a lot of us come to forums like this because of all the conflicts of interest in the industry.
> 
> So, in fact, the place to get what you're looking for is... right here.  There are a lot of experienced and knowledgable people on this forum. If you post some details of your car, what you're looking for, etc. I'm sure someone can help you out with some unbiased suggestions.


Yeah, because the members on this forum aren't biased at all.

When the brand JL Audio comes up, most of the members bash it here because of its price.
Anytime Alpine comes up, people bash how its not the same as it was before.

How about all the Zed worshipping sheep on here. I swear he could sell a amp for whatever price he wants and people would buy it blindly.

Almost every single thread I see on here where people are asking for recommendations, Image Dynamics is promoted by the majority. Doesn't matter what type of sound the OP is asking for or what his budget is, Image Dynamics seems to be the generic answer.

Point is, this forum is no different than any honest store. Thinking any differently would be a mistake.


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## MiniVanMan (Jun 28, 2005)

Angrywhopper said:


> Yeah, because the members on this forum aren't biased at all.
> 
> When the brand JL Audio comes up, most of the members bash it here because of its price.
> Anytime Alpine comes up, people bash how its not the same as it was before.
> ...


I was prepared to get mad at you, but unfortunately, I can't disagree after reading your entire post. :blush:

To the OP, I like your style. You're not concerned with branding at this point, which means you're probably a fresh, open mind. KEEP IT THAT WAY!!!!

A few bits of MVM advice. It's not popular advice, but I think it's good advice. Price is NEVER an indication of quality in car audio. Price is NEVER and indication of performance over a cheaper product. 

What is car audio? Car audio is the bastard child of the audio industry. We have chosen to take one of the worst acoustical spaces and create a sound room within said space. It's extremely challenging to do right, and unfortunately, not something that even most professionals can do right for various reasons. The true challenge has nothing to do with what equipment to buy, but how to properly implement the equipment you're using. 

There is no amp that will overcome the acoustic challenges a car produces. There are no speakers that will defy the laws of physics. There are no precision aligned electron fields in wiring. Gold plating is expensive, that's it, etc, etc, etc.

Plenty of good products out there. Most are no better than others. All have varying price points and are primarily at the price point they are because they can be based on reputation, whether earned, or bought (marketing).

Learn to sift through the ********, EDUCATE YOURSELF, and be prepared to think critically. That, or you can roll the dice, and hope you get pleasant results.


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## dps (Mar 11, 2009)

Thank you for the replies. What I had HOPED to find probably just doesn't exist; an expert that you simply pay by the hour or the project that would list the possibilities available specifically so that I DIDN'T have to educate myself. Not that I mind educating myself; that's my normal method, but I could save a lot of time and save myself some of the dice-rolling by paying something for someone else's education 

I'll start by posting in the Dumb Question forum and see what folks recommend I start looking at.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Ina few words....do your homework.

After you learn as much as you possibly can, each brands standing in the market place will smack you in the face like a baseball bat.


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## johnmasters (Mar 30, 2009)

Although there may be some brand snobs on DIYMA, at least there giving advise based on HOW IT SOUNDS TO THEM. They are not trying to sell you something. They are not making a commission. There are actually trying to give you exactly what you are looking for.. THEIR OPINION ON MOBILE AUDIO.

If you ask someone on DIYMA what they like and they say "Image Dynamics" and you say "Thats just because you are following the crowd" Then I would submit that you are not actually interested in finding an answer to your question. WHY ASK IF YOU ALREADY KNOW? 

If there is a better place to find impartial advice regarding your car stereo than DIYMA, I'd like to know.

Well maybe... caraudioenthusiast, emsq and cardsound


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Angrywhopper said:


> Yeah, because the members on this forum aren't biased at all.
> 
> When the brand JL Audio comes up, most of the members bash it here because of its price.
> Anytime Alpine comes up, people bash how its not the same as it was before.
> ...


Honest store? What's that? 

I think everyone has their biases, based on equipment they've used, liked, etc. But what's special about a forum is that you're not getting one opinion, you're getting potentially hundreds. Although there's some brand bias here, it tends to be pretty small in comparison.

Thing is, when people get too brand whorey on here, they usually get called out on it pretty quickly. Look at the LP threads.

As a side note, I think you're wrong about JL in this forum. Everybody here has a damned JL amp. And the w7 has been one of the most popular suggestions here since npdang raved about it many years ago. I think people are more biased against big box brands here (eg. Kenwood, Sony), which is unfortunate.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

dps said:


> In general, if I go to anyplace that has anything to sell, that's what they'll recommend; the brands they carry. There are two problems to this, at least as I see it. One, how do I know that the guy knows what he's talking about in the first place if I know next-to-nothing myself? Two, how do I know that I've stumbled upon the right retailer of products; if they only sell Brand X, how do I find out that Brand Y might have been a better choice (but this retailer doesn't sell that Brand)?


That's not always true. My first suggestion is try to talk to the installers at any shop you go to, this works better if they don't do sales too. The reason I say this is, as a whole, we will tell you what sounds good, bad or indifferent and why, because we don't have any money riding on it. Also, we'll tell you what products we see coming back frequently or which ones stand the test of time.

Go to as many shops as possible and try to audition any speakers you might be interested in. Understand that on the display board, they won't sound anything like they will in your car, but they'll give you an idea...you may not be able to do A/B comparisons, but if you hate something about a speaker, you probably won't like it in your car.

Research, research, research. Try to learn at least the basics before you go in, just so you have some idea if the salesperson is blowing sunshine up your ass or not. I'm not saying you need to know everything, but spend some time on here and get an idea what you are looking for before going to shops.

I know I don't always recommend the product our shop sells, and I try to keep up the reviews of other products we don't so if someone comes in and ask about them I have some idea what's going on...

But that's why I'm not a salesman, I'm too honest to make any money at it 

Jay


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