# Disappointed with Morel ULTIMO



## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

Ok guys heres the thing, i sold my jl w7 13.5" and bought the morel 12" ultimo which i put in a 1.5cu box. My system is stock Logic 7 premium system which comes in my BMW. It has 13 speakers including 2 8" midwoofers, which are good but no low end. 
I thought the Ultimo would be perfect because i felt the jl was too loud for me and i wanted a clean sound. The Ultimo seems WEAK to me. Like many said its transparent but it sounds like only my mid are working and theres nothing specail in the low end. I dont feel it in my stomach like some said. I am powering it with a JL 1000/1 amp. Any suggestions, i really thought i made a good choice with this sub. It does hit clean but its not POWERFUL. Im sure some people are going to say its and SQ sub not SPL. I get that but why does it sound like it isnt adding anything and my MIDS are more powerful.


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## gymrat2005 (Oct 4, 2009)

Personally I don't understand why you you would scrap a 13w7 for another woofer in the first place. If you had no woofer and were buying one, that's one thing, but if you already had a a top JL sub, makes no sense why you would have even changed it in the first place. Too loud????..Turn it down!

I notice you only have 3 posts, not trying to be sarcastic, but do some digging and you might find some posts that show a more appropriate setup for the Morel. If I recall it needs more airspace to really shine.


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

yea i know, but the reason i sold the JL for the Morel was because it added a 100lbs and that was sealed. I personally wasnt too crazy for SPL but the Morel isnt a tad bit loud. Yes i am new to this site, but i have had a couple of systems and know a few things. I also figured a 1000 watts sub should get decently loud.


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

Dude you are in the same boat I have been in for some time but I did not sell my 1st sub. my 1 10in IDMAX has beat out 1 pioneer PRS12inch, and 2 si bm's. And people are like I want SQL and boomy bass that can be localized. Well if I dont want you to know where the sub is I just turn it down. lol


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

your amp does not put out enough essques.


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

essques? can you please explain what do you mean? I thought this amp was really powerful i used to power 2 12 L7 kickers and the JL with no issues.


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

did you make any other changes besides just swapping out the subs? 

when i change subs i play with the xover setting, sub level,eq,etc to get it "just right"


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

Welcome to the definition of "transparency." The emperor's new threads are pretty badass as well.  As is probably made obvious by the equipment in my sig, my sub-100hz tastes avoid transparency to the highest degree.


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

i didnt make any changes, what i dont understand is when i had my jl 13w7 i would put the gain half way about 54 volts and it would be too loud, i have the amp gain all the way up this time and my lights dont even dim.


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## gymrat2005 (Oct 4, 2009)

aresh said:


> yea i know, but the reason i sold the JL for the Morel was because it added a 100lbs and that was sealed. I personally wasnt too crazy for SPL but the Morel isnt a tad bit loud. Yes i am new to this site, but i have had a couple of systems and know a few things. I also figured a 1000 watts sub should get decently loud.


I didn't mean to insunuate you did not know what you are doing, only that you may be unfamiliar with the best application for that speaker. Here our good friend DAT shows anything under 1.75 "sucked butt" (nice DAT...lol). Here is Buzzman showing off his Fancy Shmancy AP enclosure. So I wouldn't be so swift to discard the virtues of the Ultimo, I would just make sure you are going to put it in it's BEST environment to satisfy your needs. Look in the "member product reviews" and there are a few different threads on the ultimo, including a "woofer shootout".


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

aresh said:


> i didnt make any changes, what i dont understand is when i had my jl 13w7 i would put the gain half way about 54 volts and it would be too loud, i have the amp gain all the way up this time and my lights dont even dim.


leave amp gain alone, if that was set properly you should be set in that area. 

try playing with the xover points, eq (if you have one) sub level knob (again if you have one that is)

and lastly since you have a 1.5cu ft box try stuffing it w/ polyfill. 

otherwise id get a bigger enclosure,


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

yes i read many threads on the ultimo and have stumbled upon the ones you mentioned. I would try a 2.1 cu box but i could not find any. Can you show me where i can buy a 2.1cu box? Thanks


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

i played with the crossover and i didnt notice much difference b/w 65 and 80hz. Usually i can tell a difference but with this sub, made very minimal change.


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## gymrat2005 (Oct 4, 2009)

with a 1.5 ft3 enclosure, try using approximately 1.75 lb/ft3 of polyfill to yield approximately a 30% gain in box volume.


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

gymrat2005 said:


> with a 1.5 ft3 enclosure, try using approximately 1.75 lb/ft3 of polyfill to yield approximately a 30% gain in box volume.


ok thanks, i will try that out.


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## WAwatchnut (Sep 5, 2009)

Since both speakers have similar efficiency specs, and with a 1.5 cu ft box, I'm guessing there may be something else going on.

Sounds like a stupid question, but have you checked the polarity of the subs connections? If you have switched the +-, you could be getting some cancellation with the other speakers in your system.

The other thing to check (especially since you mention "my lights don't even dim") is did you get the 4 ohm version of the Morel, or the 2 ohm version? The JBL's 2.47 ohm, so if you didn't get the 2 ohm Morel, your amp's output would be cut roughly in half (resulting in less reason for the lights to dim).

Otherwise, with everything else in the system being the same, there shouldn't be any reason for a Huge difference in sound output. A small difference, but not along the lines of what you're describing.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

mikey7182 said:


> Welcome to the definition of "transparency." The emperor's new threads are pretty badass as well.  As is probably made obvious by the equipment in my sig, my sub-100hz tastes avoid transparency to the highest degree.


I'm with you on this one. I've never understood the upside to a sub being transparent. The last thing I want is to not know whether my sub is on or not. If I have to turn my sub on and off to make sure it's working, it's time for me to switch subs.

To each his own...I imagine those who like the W7 would not prefer the Ultimo. They are different altogether.


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

WAwatchnut said:


> Since both speakers have similar efficiency specs, and with a 1.5 cu ft box, I'm guessing there may be something else going on.
> 
> Sounds like a stupid question, but have you checked the polarity of the subs connections? If you have switched the +-, you could be getting some cancellation with the other speakers in your system.
> 
> ...













he had a JL not JBL and the JL 1000/1 does 1000W x 1 @ 1.5-4 OHM


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

WAwatchnut said:


> Since both speakers have similar efficiency specs, and with a 1.5 cu ft box, I'm guessing there may be something else going on.
> 
> Sounds like a stupid question, but have you checked the polarity of the subs connections? If you have switched the +-, you could be getting some cancellation with the other speakers in your system.
> 
> ...



I Supposedly bought the 2 ohm from woofersetc. When i got the sub it had a sticker of 2 ohm on the original printed 4ohm. Why would they try to pull some bs like that after i told him specifically i wanted the 2ohm. I contacted him about it and they said it is 2ohm but did not state why there was a sticker over the 4 ohm on the back of the sub. I think thats the problem, i probably have the 4ohm and now my input is cut in half, any solutions?


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

no its not! 1000/1 does

1000 W RMS @ 1.5 ohm - 4 ohm (11V-14.5V)


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

lucas569 said:


> no its not! 1000/1 does
> 
> 1000 W RMS @ 1.5 ohm - 4 ohm (11V-14.5V)


He is right. Your Ultimo is getting the full 1000 watts plus. Power is not the issue here.


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## gymrat2005 (Oct 4, 2009)

plus woofersetc is not an authorized dealer for Morel...you get what you get from them.


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## WAwatchnut (Sep 5, 2009)

lucas569 said:


> he had a JL not JBL and the JL 1000/1 does 1000W x 1 @ 1.5-4 OHM


Sorry I added the "B" in there... typing while watching TV...

(At least the OP got it! )

I didn't realize the JL put out the same power at any resistance. I stand corrected. Just trying to help - sorry I'm so dumb!


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

gymrat2005 said:


> plus woofersetc is not an authorized dealer for Morel...you get what you get from them.


I doubt this is the problem either.


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## gymrat2005 (Oct 4, 2009)

Never stated this was a problem. Simply gave cause as to why he would have ordered a 2 ohm, and got a speaker with a 2 ohm sticker covering up a 4 ohm sticker.


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

WAwatchnut said:


> Sorry I added the "B" in there... typing while watching TV...
> 
> (At least the OP got it! )
> 
> I didn't realize the JL put out the same power at any resistance. I stand corrected. Just trying to help - sorry I'm so dumb!


quite all right young skywalker


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## Hernan (Jul 9, 2006)

Second time... do you try swapping polarity?


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

Today I noticed that this speaker plays some notes cleanly and in other notes I can hear a bit of distortion. Is this normal? Is the speaker just breaking in? Can anyone give me their experience relating to how this speaker distorts, if that makes any sense.


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

I will try switching the polarity to see of it helps.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

I'm an Ultimo fanatic, but I completely understand why you feel this way. The Ultimo is NOT for everyone, especially someone who is accustomed to a W7. What we've been trying to tell everyone is that this sub sounds different. It doesn't lack output, but it lacks what you perceive as output. It doesn't boom and there is no residual echo.

I honestly don't think going to a larger enclosure will help you much. I've heard the Ultimo in a small enclosure and, while it didn't shine, it still sounded the same. I think you just won't like the sound of it.


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## SoundChaser (Apr 3, 2009)

I own the Esotar1200, which is a similar animal to the Ultimo. It should pound and pound hard. Provided you play the appropriate music. As far as transparency, some songs I do not notice that the sub is playing at all until I turn the bass level down and realize it is. On other songs, there is no mistake the sub is playing. Just this morning I was listening to a piece of music that vibrated my kidneys. Other pieces of music will buckle the front windshield and some will oscillate the rear view mirror.

I suspect something is wrong. Maybe an air leak in your enclosure?
Also you should break the sub in according to manufacturer recommendation before you beat on it. Maybe 20-50 hours?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Mooble said:


> and there is no residual echo.


echo :laugh:


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

aresh said:


> Ok guys heres the thing, i sold my jl w7 13.5" and bought the morel 12" ultimo which i put in a 1.5cu box. My system is stock Logic 7 premium system which comes in my BMW. It has 13 speakers including 2 8" midwoofers, which are good but no low end.
> I thought the Ultimo would be perfect because i felt the jl was too loud for me and i wanted a clean sound. The Ultimo seems WEAK to me. Like many said its transparent but it sounds like only my mid are working and theres nothing specail in the low end. I dont feel it in my stomach like some said. I am powering it with a JL 1000/1 amp. Any suggestions, i really thought i made a good choice with this sub. It does hit clean but its not POWERFUL. Im sure some people are going to say its and SQ sub not SPL. I get that but why does it sound like it isnt adding anything and my MIDS are more powerful.


put a 13.5 w7 back in and turn it down when it overpowers 
.


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

Hernan said:


> Second time... do you try swapping polarity?


I tried switching polarity and it was perfect, i felt the bass in my chest but then on some other genres the drum didnt sound like a drum, so i switched it back and it sounds good but would love to have that bass that you can feel in your chest when it gets low.


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

Mooble said:


> I'm an Ultimo fanatic, but I completely understand why you feel this way. The Ultimo is NOT for everyone, especially someone who is accustomed to a W7. What we've been trying to tell everyone is that this sub sounds different. It doesn't lack output, but it lacks what you perceive as output. It doesn't boom and there is no residual echo.
> 
> I honestly don't think going to a larger enclosure will help you much. I've heard the Ultimo in a small enclosure and, while it didn't shine, it still sounded the same. I think you just won't like the sound of it.


I get what your saying, i love the sound of the ultimo, its very linear and clean. However, IMO the difference b/w the w7 and ultimo in SQ is not too different. The Jl was able to sound just as clean and hit every beat but it did echo and was boomy. For the JL you would have to tweak it to perfect whereas the Ultimo you dont need to. The Ultimo gives you real bass and hits notes the way they are suppose to be heard. Only issue i have now is lack of output, i want to feel the bass in my stomach or chest. I tried playing around with the crossover but not much change. Only when i reversed the polarity i got that chest hitting bass. 

I also tried adding Polyfill but not sure if it helped or not


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Mooble said:


> I'm an Ultimo fanatic, but I completely understand why you feel this way. The Ultimo is NOT for everyone, especially someone who is accustomed to a W7. What we've been trying to tell everyone is that this sub sounds different. It doesn't lack output, but it lacks what you perceive as output. It doesn't boom and there is no residual echo.


^ +1

Perceived loudness compared to actual loudness becomes a little less clearly defined with severe low distortion, and low inductance, subwoofers. Remember back in the day when the Brahma's first came out? People were saying "I'm metering 144 dB, but it doesn't sound loud." That's because there was a huge lack of distortion in comparison to what they're used to hearing. Technically it _is_ loud but it's simply not as distorted as they're used to hearing from their W7's (even though that's a very linear driver), ID MAX's, RF's, etc. 140 dB with no distortion is just as loud to the meter as a distorted 140 dB.

Mooble is right, drivers like the Ultimo are not for everyone. A lot of people are satisfied with "normal" distortion drivers. They want to hear it changing sound characteristics (BL non-linearity's), or maybe they like pin-pointing where their subwoofer is (inductance issues). Who knows. Bottom line is that there are a plethora of different subwoofers out there for a reason. And that reason is that not everyone likes the same thing. 

Fortunately for the OP, he can probably sell the Ultimo and buy something with a more standard design and still come out on top monetarily.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

chad said:


> echo :laugh:


Call it what you like.  When the note hits, but there is residual sound bouncing around in the car, it's an echo to me.


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## mosconiac (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm lost...you says its transparent, clean, very linear...then say it plays some notes cleanly and in other notes you can hear a bit of distortion. Is it playing accurately, just not to your taste or...is something wrong with the driver, box, or install?

Are you sure the enclosure isn't leaking? Kinda sounds like a situation I had years ago with a leaker. Sounded OK somtimes, bad others.


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

mosconiac said:


> I'm lost...you says its transparent, clean, very linear...then say it plays some notes cleanly and in other notes you can hear a bit of distortion. Is it playing accurately, just not to your taste or...is something wrong with the driver, box, or install?
> 
> Are you sure the enclosure isn't leaking? Kinda sounds like a situation I had years ago with a leaker. Sounded OK somtimes, bad others.


ok heres the thing, when i sit inside my car its linear, accurate, but could be louder IMO ( I also have my ski pass down to let more bass in). When i said it was distorting, what i meant was when i open the trunk and look at the sub in the box playing, i can hear it playing nicely but there are notes for some reason that make the sub sound "distorted" (thunder like sound). Im worried that maybe my sub is defective. But then, at the same time it sounds perfectly fine inside the car. Also if i turn the gain any higher the sub will just distort(buzz like sound). 

The reason i think i may be defective or damaged is because last night i played it as loud as i could, only to find out today that the negative came off inside the sub. So im worried that i possibly damaged it, but it dosent smell burnt and i didnt see any indication physically other than that buzzing or thunderish sound when certain notes play.

Anyone get this?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Mooble said:


> Call it what you like.  When the note hits, but there is residual sound bouncing around in the car, it's an echo to me.


I call it panel resonance


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

....


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

aresh said:


> The reason i think i may be defective or damaged is because last night i played it as loud as i could, only to find out today that the negative came off inside the sub.


Say what? The tinsel lead broke loose on the former? If so, how did you reattach it? Do you mean that the wire just came out of the push terminal? That's never good. If it shorts with the positive, there goes your amp.

The Ultimo is well built. You really shouldn't have any problem hitting it with 1000w. It's always possible that you got a defective one. I've never had any problem with Woofers Etc. They might have peeled the S/N off, but they don't normally do anything else to their drivers.

If you're getting a buzzing sound, that's not the sub. You may well have damaged the amp if that lead was bouncing around and shorted.


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## lycan (Dec 20, 2009)

chad said:


> I call it panel resonance


Or _driver_ resonance, when it's enclosed in a box that's too small ... just so that "bragging rights" can be upheld about how much power it swallows.

I'm not picking on anyone in particular, it's just a general observation about car audio subs & recommended enclosures. It's been my observation that enclosure recommendations are too often made, based on "high power handling" rather than decent transient response.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Mooble said:


> If you're getting a buzzing sound, that's not the sub. You may well have damaged the amp if that lead was bouncing around and shorted.


Correction. It depends on what kind of buzzing sound you mean. If it rattles, something is obviously loose on the sub. If it's an electronic buzzing sound playing through the sub, the amp has issues.


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## BoostedNihilist (Mar 3, 2008)

> The Ultimo is well built. You really shouldn't have any problem hitting it with 1000w. It's always possible that you got a defective one. I've never had any problem with Woofers Etc. They might have peeled the S/N off, but they don't normally do anything else to their drivers.


In my experience, even the best built sub will have tinsel lead problems if there is over excursion on a regular basis. (enclosure)

You would figure a modern amp would go into protection if it was driving directly to ground..


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

I made a video to YouTube - Ultimo problem. Its hard to tell that weird sound but in the camera you can hear this distortion. I really doubt the morel is supposed to sound like that. If i was to turn the gain a higher, the sound would be more pronounced and you could hear the buzzing sound i was referring too.


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

Mooble said:


> Say what? The tinsel lead broke loose on the former? If so, how did you reattach it? Do you mean that the wire just came out of the push terminal? That's never good. If it shorts with the positive, there goes your amp.
> 
> The Ultimo is well built. You really shouldn't have any problem hitting it with 1000w. It's always possible that you got a defective one. I've never had any problem with Woofers Etc. They might have peeled the S/N off, but they don't normally do anything else to their drivers.
> 
> If you're getting a buzzing sound, that's not the sub. You may well have damaged the amp if that lead was bouncing around and shorted.


not the leads at the sub but the positive and negative wires outside of the enclosure where you connect them. One of those came loose and i was blasting it with just the negative side in. I made a video, please give me your advice. I should also mention this is Iphone camera so im sure part of it is the camera. Its hard to tell that mechanical buzzing unless i turned the gain a bit higher.


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## ellocojorge (Sep 30, 2009)

aresh said:


> not the leads at the sub but the positive and negative wires outside of the enclosure where you connect them. One of those came loose and i was blasting it with just the negative side in. I made a video, please give me your advice. I should also mention this is Iphone camera so im sure part of it is the camera. Its hard to tell that mechanical buzzing unless i turned the gain a bit higher.


so your sub was still playing with only one wire connected to your amp? if so that means that you probably have a clipped wire somewhere and its prob making contact with you car. have you rechecked the entire wires going to the sub?


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## ellocojorge (Sep 30, 2009)

btw do you have the svc or dvc ultimo


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

YouTube - Ultimo problem No that was the day before, today i reconnected the loose wiring but im worried that i may have damaged the sub when it was connected to only the negative side the day before. See the video. Its the Ultimo


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

I haven't read the thread that closely, so forgive me if you mentioned this already. 

Is the sub located in exactly the same location that the W7 was (ie is the cone the same distance from the back and sides of the trunk as the W7)? 

Is the box a similar shape or did you completely redo the install. Did you go from a rear firing enclosure located to the rear of the trunk, to a walled enclosure behind the back seat facing the trunk?


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

First things first, the gain on your amplifier is NOT a volume control. Why do you keep adjusting the gain? That is a problem that needs to be addressed.


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

Yes the sub is in the same place, same type of box. Right now my concern is if my sub is damaged. Please view the video and give me your thoughts. The reason I adjust the gain is because for the amp depending on the ohms, a certain voltage chart is followed to get minimal clipping and full 1000rms.


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## gymrat2005 (Oct 4, 2009)

yeah I just watched it, and it sounds messed up. I would try and get a new one from woofersetc.com


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

Thanks for watching the vid. I also think that's why I can't give it a full 1000w because it's defected or damaged.


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## rommelrommel (Apr 11, 2007)

DVC Ultimo


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

You can't damage anything with half the circuit connected...

Just having the negative connected wouldn't have damaged it one bit, it just wouldn't receive power.


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

Thank you so that rules out it being damaged.


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## gymrat2005 (Oct 4, 2009)

no it rules out YOU damaging it. Although it is hard to determine for sure through the video, it does does sound like something is wrong with it.That unfortunately is where you take your chances ordering something online, from a non-authorized retailer. Now that's not to say that woofersetc.com won't make it right, but a lot of the items they sell are open box returns (b-stock) and refurbished items. I would head down to a local shop and let them get a listen first hand to the speaker. They might be able to confirm one way or another if it is in fact defective.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

aresh said:


> not the leads at the sub but the positive and negative wires outside of the enclosure where you connect them. One of those came loose and i was blasting it with just the negative side in.


ok..


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

So that means the sub won't be affected by any power, even if the amp was put to distortion


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

aresh said:


> So that means the sub won't be affected by any power, even if the amp was put to distortion


a sub needs 2 wires connected to work, 

if you can disconnect 1 wire and it still bumps its ****ed.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

this thread is so full of win.


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## BoostedNihilist (Mar 3, 2008)

> this thread is so full of win.


Just do the water test. 

Take the subwoofer and put it in the tub. Get in the tub with a multimeter and the sub and measure the dc resistance while you play some music through the sub with your amplifier.

if it blows your ****en mind, then the sub is okay.. if not, it is definitely ****ed.

(note: do not do this..)


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## drocpsu (May 3, 2005)

BoostedNihilist said:


> Just do the water test.
> 
> Take the subwoofer and put it in the tub. Get in the tub with a multimeter and the sub and measure the dc resistance while you play some music through the sub with your amplifier.
> 
> ...


:laugh:


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

BoostedNihilist said:


> Just do the water test.
> 
> Take the subwoofer and put it in the tub. Get in the tub with a multimeter and the sub and measure the dc resistance while you play some music through the sub with your amplifier.
> 
> ...


What's funny about that is that he could replace VERY FEW words in translation, save the sub, and find out EXACTLY what's up.

YouTube - Think for Yourself - Question Authority


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## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

You said when you switch phase you get the hard chest hitting bass you want.. Why not just leave your phase reversed, there is nothing wrong wiring it that way and apparently it works better for getting your relative phase correct between your mids and sub.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

T3mpest said:


> You said when you switch phase you get the hard chest hitting bass you want.. Why not just leave your phase reversed, there is nothing wrong wiring it that way and apparently it works better for getting your relative phase correct between your mids and sub.


There is no reason why reversing the polarity of the sub should make that big of a difference.

You did not damage your sub by only having one wire connected. A sub can not play with only one wire connected. That doesn't mean that your sub isn't damaged and it doesn't mean that you didn't damage it. It just means that the damage didn't come from only one wire being connected. You could have damaged the amp this way though. 

My guess is that you either have defective equipment or this just isn't the sub for you. Another possibility is the install, perhaps you changed something that you didn't realize your changed maybe you turned the crossover dial the wrong way. It's really difficult to tell over the internet and a crappy video, try to get someone local to look at it with you.


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## stalintc (Dec 6, 2007)

T3mpest said:


> You said when you switch phase you get the hard chest hitting bass you want.. Why not just leave your phase reversed, there is nothing wrong wiring it that way and apparently it works better for getting your relative phase correct between your mids and sub.


I agree with this. Electrical phase and acoustic phase can be 2 different animals. The problem could be made worse by in this vehicle which has so much DSP (time allignment, eq, phase...etc) programed in the system already.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Well we have determined one thing, from the vid, it's just not a rap/hip-hop sub.

Sweet, we have a new classification.


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## M-Dub (Nov 29, 2006)

Or the camera mic sucks.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

it's a basic rap/hip-hop excursion vid........ they all suck



Like putting a baseball right fielder in as a linebacker, not gonna happen.


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

Lots of issues here, your best bet turn your gain down on your amp, take it a top level car audio shop. Pay them to check out your install and see whats up.

Morel in a trunk sounds good IB, I like them ported also in a hatch or sealed will work . 2cuft for me...


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

**** box wood/drywall screws, driven in crooked, tossed on top of a surface you KNOW is not flat, ****ty sound, in a driver you KNOW has a tight VC tolerance. 

It's rubbing. WATCH THE VID!


For the love of god guys.. have you gone stupid...?????


Who spends that much money on a driver and does not at least invest in flippin t-nuts, let alone the better variants?



Put the driver on the bench, I bet it's quiet. Do it now and trust me before you ruin it.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

you believe the voice coils will rub if the driver is not vertical chadsister?

i call shenanigans.

im going with the jl slash amp being power hungry (notorious), the bmw stock alti not man enough, and clipping being the issue.

i bet the morel will do rap with the best of them 

the box n screws look great to me


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

after revisiting this page id also say the sub/box is in the wrong location

Aiming your subwoofer box


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

man no offense but your pushing that thing hard, dont think the ultimo is for you. maybe a 12w6 or w7 would have been up your alley. gl getting that sub warrantied.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm guessing someone likes the more extended low end sensitivity and total output capability of the w7. Don't toss the w7 aside though... it's also one of the lowest distortion subs out there and I'd put money on the fact that it measures significantly lower than the Ultimo at nearly all listening levels.


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## JDMRB1ODY (Oct 11, 2008)

> [/QUOJust do the water test.
> 
> Take the subwoofer and put it in the tub. Get in the tub with a multimeter and the sub and measure the dc resistance while you play some music through the sub with your amplifier.
> 
> ...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

60ndown said:


> after revisiting this page id also say the sub/box is in the wrong location
> 
> Aiming your subwoofer box


Eddie doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

npdang said:


> I'm guessing someone likes the more extended low end sensitivity and total output capability of the w7. Don't toss the w7 aside though... it's also one of the lowest distortion subs out there and I'd put money on the fact that it measures significantly lower than the Ultimo at nearly all listening levels.


If it didn't weigh so damned much and wasn't almost as deep as it is wide I'd run one.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

60ndown said:


> you believe the voice coils will rub if the driver is not vertical chadsister?
> 
> i call shenanigans.
> 
> ...


No, he's saying the crap ass install is flexing the frame and THAT'S why the coil is rubbing. Putting the sub on a table or something similar removes the "box" from the equation.

The amp isn't the problem as if ran his W7 just fine. BMW charging systems are well above the norm so unless he has something not working correctly it's not that either. Clipping isn't the problem either.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

chad said:


> **** box wood/drywall screws, driven in crooked, tossed on top of a surface you KNOW is not flat, ****ty sound, in a driver you KNOW has a tight VC tolerance.
> 
> It's rubbing. WATCH THE VID!
> 
> ...


Morels do have very tight tolerances and yes, they will rub easily. I don't think it's as bad as it looks Chad. The screws are holding down the grill which is fairly stout all by itself and should be somewhat evenly distributing the pressure. I seriously doubt he's warping the frame. I think it's just damaged, possibly from shipping, or just defective. 

The one complaint I have with the Ultimo is the grill. It should have separate holes from the frame of the sub. That was a boneheaded move IMO.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Eddie doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.


ive experienced huge difference in bass performance with exact placement every time, in home and vehicle. 

this morel is located 3 feet from the rear of the vehicle, this could be causing significant cancellation at the drivers seat, and is easy to test.

apparently you know eddies ass better then he does


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> it's simply not as distorted as they're used to hearing from their W7's A lot of people are satisfied with "normal" distortion drivers. They want to hear it changing sound characteristics (BL non-linearity's), or maybe they like pin-pointing where their subwoofer is (inductance issues).






npdang said:


> I'm guessing someone likes the more extended low end sensitivity and total output capability of the w7. Don't toss the w7 aside though... it's also one of the lowest distortion subs out there and I'd put money on the fact that it measures significantly lower than the Ultimo at nearly all listening levels.




i know who i believe.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

60ndown said:


> ive experienced huge difference in bass performance with exact placement every time, in home and vehicle.
> 
> this morel is located 3 feet from the rear of the vehicle, this could be causing significant cancellation at the drivers seat, and is easy to test.
> 
> apparently you know eddies ass better then he does


And you honestly think it's because the 25+ foot long sound wave is bouncing off of anything? 

I agree that placement DOES have an effect. I'm disagreeing with why.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> And you honestly think it's because the 25+ foot long sound wave is bouncing off of anything?


no, i believe the incident wave and the reflected wave can be out of phase, which does have a very negative impact on overall bass performance.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

60ndown said:


> you believe the voice coils will rub if the driver is not vertical chadsister?


MANY drivers with tight VC tolerances in the gap will rub when not torqued down correctly or mounted to an uneven surface.. even ones with bigass cast baskets.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

In a car any sound wave longer than the longest length of the interior isn't a wave anymore. It simply pressurizes and depressurized the air in the cabin. Bascially, there is no wave form at bass frequencies in a car unless you have something like a big ass cargo van.


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## BoostedNihilist (Mar 3, 2008)

even a big ass cargo van wouldn't fit a 20hz wave.. 

1/4 waves?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> And you honestly think it's because the 25+ foot long sound wave is bouncing off of anything?
> 
> *I agree that placement DOES have an effect. I'm disagreeing with why*.


Maybe it's the shorter harmonic waves that the sub produces that are canceling each other out when the box is mounted away from the back.

Look what happens to the _sound_ of a Velodyne DD18 when the harmonic reducing servo-feedback circuit is enabled.

Velodyne DD18 Powered Subwoofer 

"Moving the servo-feedback to a lower setting produced more of a boomy sound that some people like, but I do not. (The boominess is a manifestation of more harmonic distortion.) So, regardless of the other parameters, I would use servo-feedback set at 8 for all Presets."

And with regards to this thread. Since the W7 is cleaner at lower frequencies and at greater outputs levels, it would not _harmonize_ that noticeably here, I guess.


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## mosconiac (Nov 12, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Since the W7 is cleaner at lower frequencies and at greater outputs levels, it would not _harmonize_ that noticeably here, I guess.


Do you have any data to support the idea that the W7 is "cleaner" than the Ultimo? I do not, but anecdotal info from other forum members would indicate the opposite.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

mosconiac said:


> but anecdotal info from other forum members would indicate the opposite.


throw one at ID's way and let's see, the W7 has already been on the Kilppel as Npdang stated.

I'm starting to believe the owners of these subs are rather passionate about something, I have yet to put a finger on what it is though.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

mosconiac said:


> Do you have any data to support the idea that the W7 is "cleaner" than the Ultimo? I do not, but anecdotal info from other forum members would indicate the opposite.


Most of those "other forum members" own the Ultimo, so I'd call them biased. There should be some Klippel reports out there to support the claims.


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## Knobby Digital (Aug 17, 2008)

mosconiac said:


> Do you have any data to support the idea that the W7 is "cleaner" than the Ultimo? I do not, but anecdotal info from other forum members would indicate the opposite.


I can't compare an Ultimo-W7 directly. But I can say that I need a variety of tonalities for bass guitar amplification which requires ATTACK, and it's far easier to get 15"s and 18"s to do what 10"s do, than the opposite. 


...if you get what I'm tryna say .


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> In a car any sound wave longer than the longest length of the interior isn't a wave anymore. It simply pressurizes and depressurized the air in the cabin. Bascially, there is no wave form at bass frequencies in a car unless you have something like a big ass cargo van.


there are 100s, maybe 1000s of cases where the exact same equipment, in the exact same vehicle, with all settings the same, yield disappointing bass with the sub in 1 position, and great bass in another position/orientation.

if pressurization was the only factor, these cases would not exist.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

chad said:


> I'm starting to believe the owners of these subs are rather passionate about something, I have yet to put a finger on what it is though.


Duh, they're passionate about teh essssque! ZOMG.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

60ndown said:


> there are 100s, maybe 1000s of cases where the exact same equipment, in the exact same vehicle, with all settings the same, yield disappointing bass with the sub in 1 position, and great bass in another position/orientation.
> 
> if pressurization was the only factor, these cases would not exist.


Yes it would. Coupling, loading, and blockages are all things that change drastically depending on location and orientation and all affect the perceived amount of bass. Also, in almost every case there is still just as much bass in the car but the midbass is what really changes. Remember, the perception of volume comes from midbass, not sub bass. I think Chad will back me up when I say when you go to a concert and they want it to "sound" and "feel" loud they're not boosting 60Hz and down but more in the 60-200Hz range.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

chad said:


> MANY drivers with tight VC tolerances in the gap will rub when not torqued down correctly or mounted to an uneven surface.. even ones with bigass cast baskets.


yea but, 

if the driver is mounted correctly altering the box position (not level) shouldn't make the coils rub.... even if the gap is tight.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Yes it would. Coupling, loading, and blockages are all things that change drastically depending on location and orientation and all affect the perceived amount of bass. Also, in almost every case there is still just as much bass in the car but the midbass is what really changes. Remember, the perception of volume comes from midbass, not sub bass. I think Chad will back me up when I say when you go to a concert and they want it to "sound" and "feel" loud they're not boosting 60Hz and down but more in the 60-200Hz range.


this morel ultimo thing is a subwoofer right? so we are talkin bout 60 hz and down ? 

so trying it towards the very rear of the vehicle (like eddie suggests) might be a good idea ??


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Right, my point was that he more than likely has midbass integration problem or straight midbass problem. A W7 will produce a **** ton of midbass which will make it sound louder than it is. 

But I agree, corner loading might be beneficial here.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

60ndown said:


> yea but,
> 
> if the driver is mounted correctly altering the box position (not level) shouldn't make the coils rub.... even if the gap is tight.


dear god man what don't you read here. I never mentioned driver orientation, I mentioned mounting it to a level surface and torquing it down properly.... twice.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

chad said:


> dear god man what don't you read here. I never mentioned driver orientation, I mentioned mounting it to a level surface and torquing it down properly.... twice.


your time of the month AGAIN! shaniqua?



chad said:


> **** box wood/drywall screws, driven in crooked, tossed on top of *a surface* you KNOW is not flat,


the box isnt that bad, couple mm maybe worst case.

YouTube - Ultimo problem


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> A W7 will produce a **** ton of midbass .


why? 

if the settings on his amp (jl slash 1000) are the same , why would the w7 produce "tons of misbass" and the morel not?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

60ndown said:


> why?
> 
> if the settings on his amp (jl slash 1000) are the same , why would the w7 produce "tons of misbass" and the morel not?


I'll dig up the Klippel results for you.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

60ndown said:


> why?
> 
> if the settings on his amp (jl slash 1000) are the same , why would the w7 produce "tons of misbass" and the morel not?


2nd/3rd order distortion? I don't know much about them, but don't they extend above/below the filters in place?


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## rommelrommel (Apr 11, 2007)

60ndown said:


> why?
> 
> if the settings on his amp (jl slash 1000) are the same , why would the w7 produce "tons of misbass" and the morel not?


Different woofers might have different large signal response curves maybe?


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

just send me the damn sub and ill test it!


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## aresh (Feb 12, 2010)

UPdate: sent in the woofer, it is defective and will be getting a new in place hopefully. I hooked my old 12 W3 and gave it more power with the same settings on the JL amp and no issues at all, which means the ultimo was definitely messed up. As per the box, it is made with great quality purchased from sonic electronics, not to mention someone from this forum had used and recommended it.

I will report back once i have received a new one and will give my final impressions.


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## Lee Rambler (Feb 6, 2010)

swap the polarity as previously mentioned, pretty safe bet you have a phasing issue with your underseat 8's...


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

aresh said:


> UPdate: sent in the woofer, it is defective and will be getting a new in place hopefully. .


good news 

you had a w7 or w3 before?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Why spend so much on a sub?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

bassfromspace said:


> Why spend so much on a sub?


Because nothing else sounds like it for less? 

I wish they cost $150. It's not like I enjoy giving my money away. Too bad they're expensive.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Mooble said:


> Because nothing else sounds like it for less?
> 
> I wish they cost $150. *It's not like I enjoy giving my money away*. Too bad they're expensive.


Somewhere deep down inside......I think you do.


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

AE Speakers Online Store


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## Shazzz (Feb 2, 2010)

BoostedNihilist said:


> Just do the water test.
> 
> Take the subwoofer and put it in the tub. Get in the tub with a multimeter and the sub and measure the dc resistance while you play some music through the sub with your amplifier.
> 
> ...


LMFAO !!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Good thing u added the disclaimer. There are some people here that would probably actually try it


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## snaimpally (Mar 5, 2008)

I've owned both the 4 ohm and 2 ohm Ultimo 12". It is not for everyone. The transparency is amazing. It doesn't sound like any other sub I have ever heard. On occasion, I still wonder whether the sub is still on because it just sounds like the mids are playing and I have to double check. As an FYI, Andrew (Mooble) and Danny (Dmazyn) both bought the 12" Ultimo after hearing mine.

I have swapped out the Ultimo for a BA G5 and for an RE SE12D4. The latter are excellent SQ subs and provide a different listening experience than the Ultimo. The Ultimo is not for everyone. I doubt you will have problems selling the Ultimo - sell it and get a JL sub. 

Plus, it is possible that you have a defective Ultimo. If you can find someone nearby who has an Ultimo, see if you can give it a listen to confirm. Contact your dealer and see what can be done.

Also, FYI, Troy Audio on the forum can get you ebay/woofersetc prices on Morel, Arc and other gear - and he is an authorized dealer.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

^Well said. High end sub is not for everyone because they are special. They can pound but yet they can blend perfectly into our system. Just that it may not be everyone's cup of tea because of this. 

BTW, send you a PM already....


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

snaimpally said:


> I've owned both the 4 ohm and 2 ohm Ultimo 12". It is not for everyone. The transparency is amazing. It doesn't sound like any other sub I have ever heard. On occasion, I still wonder whether the sub is still on because it just sounds like the mids are playing and I have to double check. As an FYI, Andrew (Mooble) and Danny (Dmazyn) both bought the 12" Ultimo after hearing mine.
> 
> I have swapped out the Ultimo for a BA G5 and for an RE SE12D4. The latter are excellent SQ subs and provide a different listening experience than the Ultimo. The Ultimo is not for everyone. I doubt you will have problems selling the Ultimo - sell it and get a JL sub.
> 
> ...


I have heard the same with nearly any well setup sub...


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