# Phoenix Area GTG - February



## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

Who's up for another gathering in February? Jon Kowanetz and Handcrafted Car Audio in Mesa have offered to host our next forum GTG. Tentative dates are Saturday 2/2 or 2/9, although there may be some flexibility if other dates work better for the majority.

Who's in? Post in the thread so we can solidify plans and make this another successful GTG. Attendance has been growing at the last few meets and it would nice to get a few more of these in before the heat arrives.


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

What timing! I was just about to start a thread regarding a meet in February. I am in, and either date works for me.


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

I am down for either date. Scratch that other show. Im more interested in this meet.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

The 9th works better for me BUT I have set the date for the last two that we had and even the canceled one iirc so PLEASE if anyone has preference to the 2nd please say so. I don't want to dictate the dates lol. I can always take 2 nights off insted of one. I have the hours and man I like taking days off lol.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

There's been a few offline requests to move this event to 2/16. Hopefully that doesn't blow up anyone's plans (Robert?) to attend.


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

ISTundra said:


> There's been a few offline requests to move this event to 2/16. Hopefully that doesn't blow up anyone's plans (Robert?) to attend.


That is Valentines Day Weekend. Plans been made prior so I will not be attending if the date is moved to the 16th.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

ISTundra said:


> There's been a few offline requests to move this event to 2/16. Hopefully that doesn't blow up anyone's plans (Robert?) to attend.


Work wise I would be fine to take the nights off to make that work BUT I might end up in the dog house taking time off work for this and not for the special time of the year like Brian pointed out lol. So in MY best interest I would have to be a no show as well. 


With what looks like a lack of interest in either of the origional two days, perhaps we should push it out to the 23rd or March 2nd.


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

just moved to the area and would love to meet the phoenix crowd. count me in!


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

Buzzman said:


> What timing! I was just about to start a thread regarding a meet in February. I am in, and either date works for me.





07azhhr said:


> The 9th works better for me BUT I have set the date for the last two that we had and even the canceled one iirc so PLEASE if anyone has preference to the 2nd please say so. I don't want to dictate the dates lol. I can always take 2 nights off insted of one. I have the hours and man I like taking days off lol.





ISTundra said:


> There's been a few offline requests to move this event to 2/16. Hopefully that doesn't blow up anyone's plans (Robert?) to attend.





brett said:


> just moved to the area and would love to meet the phoenix crowd. count me in!


I will be here hanging out at import face off if anyone wants to meet up. Aside from specific dates. THis community should be able to hang out and seek advice or assistance any time. So, if anyone ever needs anything, just hit me up. Hope to see yall soon.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...car-audio-com-import-faceoff.html#post1802814


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## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

I would love to get with this get together, and I will also be at IFO, in the black Genesis Coupe using Morel and Arc Audio


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

An idea was brought to me yesterday. We could use this event for a combined SQL MECA/USACI event as well. The prices to do so are very minimal. There are some great builds in Arizona but we don't seem to ever see them in the lanes. Coupling this with two major sanctioning bodies could be real beneficial for the industry. Please let me know.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

So, how does the 23rd work out for everyone? Handcrafted has been very flexible on accommodating date requests but we need to nail this down so people can make plans. Let's make it the 23rd!


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## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

Perfect for me!


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

down for anything


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

the 23rd is a saturday- typically on a sunday you could get a slight better turnout due to the people that work in the car audion industry. But it is really up to you yall.


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

Hey guys, due to the low key nature of these get togethers, I'm cool with whatever date you guys would like. My wife will murder me if I try to go to "work" on a Sunday so that's a no go for me. Saturdays are great around here because it is so industrial and a lot of businesses are closed so plenty of room for everybody. 

I'd like to get an idea from you guys as to what kind of event you want. Do you wanna keep it DIYMA and just hanging around or would you like me to get some other like minded individuals to come down? How do you guys feel about the competition aspect of it? 

If you guys have any concerns or specific questions, feel free to message me.


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## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

Jon you know I'm down for competitions


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

Indeed I do!


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

handcrafted said:


> Hey guys, due to the low key nature of these get togethers, I'm cool with whatever date you guys would like. My wife will murder me if I try to go to "work" on a Sunday so that's a no go for me. Saturdays are great around here because it is so industrial and a lot of businesses are closed so plenty of room for everybody.
> 
> I'd like to get an idea from you guys as to what kind of event you want. Do you wanna keep it DIYMA and just hanging around or would you like me to get some other like minded individuals to come down? How do you guys feel about the competition aspect of it?
> 
> If you guys have any concerns or specific questions, feel free to message me.


Jon, many thanks for agreeing to host this next gathering. Personally, I would prefer not to inject the "competition" element into these. While competitions have their place, in my view these gatherings should serve an entirely different purpose. I would prefer to use them as an opportunity to build a new generation of Phoenix area car audio enthusiasts interested in building Sound Quality systems, in being exposed to great, new music, and building friendships. For a while now I felt these gatherings would be much more effective and beneficial if they were more interactive and educational components were integrated into them. I thought that having a roundtable discussion of SQ oriented and industry topics among a group of industry experts and veterans (which I would moderate) would accomplish this. This group would include representatives of the manufacturer and retailer/installer segments, as well as persons who have built world class mobile audio systems. So, with this objective in mind, while planning for the last GTG in December that was not held, I discussed this with a few folks and there was universal suport for it. Back in November, Jon Whitledge (The Magic Bus) committed to participate, as did ANT. I reached out to Earl Zausmer and he has also agreed to participate. For those of you too young or new to this hobby to know who Earl is, you can start your education here: Earl Zausmer - 1994 BMW 540 - 1995 CA&E. So Jon, assuming that as our host you don't have an issue with this concept, I will continue with the plans for this panel discussion (which of course would include getting your input) and announce the names of the rest of the participants once I have confirmation of commitments.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

Buzzman- I understand your concerns. Here in Arizona we have been committed to the same ideas with all our MECA/USACI competitors. We have been dedicated to improving SQ across the board through open discussion. Adding a competition element would bring a great "light" into this get together. 
The reward aspect of the hard work an individual has put into their install and the tuning of their systems. 
We are dedicated to unifying the SQL community in Arizona. 
The benefit of having an SQL competition would be beneficial. All of us competitors want to go to this get together. However, we also need to get points for our given sanctioning bodies to qualify for World Finals. We would live to drive only one time. Notable separate trips for too many events. 
We all have families so our time is very special. 
Personally I am from Tucson. I would live to meet with you guys and share my knowledge. 
Like I said I am committed to open communication in the SQL world. 

We have invited several members on these forums to our events and they never show up. We have no clue why--- but many of us are dedicated to growing the SQL community in Arizona and making it the best in the US. 

Many of us want to be there- we want round table discussion but we also want to be able to introduce new people to what we do as well. The SQL competitors are like night and day from the SPL type competitor. Plus what we do is fun. We yearn for new sets of ears on our builds. It's what makes all of us better. 

One other advantage to having MECA/USACI involved is that Jon's shop will benefit from what we do. We want more people to get out there to see his installations.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

The 23rd works for me. Is this final so I can schedule time off? 

No competition for me. I do have a few cars that I hope I can take a listen too this time around. The blue M3 and the white reg cab Toyota and if enough time the Morel Passat.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

07azhhr said:


> The 23rd works for me. Is this final so I can schedule time off?
> 
> No competition for me. I do have a few cars that I hope I can take a listen too this time around. The blue M3 and the white reg cab Toyota and if enough time the Morel Passat.


Getting your ears on good sounding vehicles is key. Getting feedback where you are currently at is so beneficial. I live giving and getting feedback. Proverbs says as iron sharpens iron as one man does to another.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

+1 for not turning this into GTG a competition at this time, although I fully welcome you guys to come out, meet people, raise awareness to the competition scene, and help promote it for future events.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

We would love to work with everyone. Come and help educate. We also have founded a Arizona SQL group on Facebook. 
This event is one month away. 
The reason I mention using Meca is the fact of the cliniques that are offered. Many people don't understand SQL and what it means. 
How long are we talking about for this event as in how long do we want to spend at the event?


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

Smogden said:


> Buzzman- I understand your concerns. Here in Arizona we have been committed to the same ideas with all our MECA/USACI competitors. We have been dedicated to improving SQ across the board through open discussion. Adding a competition element would bring a great "light" into this get together.
> The reward aspect of the hard work an individual has put into their install and the tuning of their systems.
> We are dedicated to unifying the SQL community in Arizona.
> The benefit of having an SQL competition would be beneficial. All of us competitors want to go to this get together. However, we also need to get points for our given sanctioning bodies to qualify for World Finals. We would live to drive only one time. Notable separate trips for too many events.
> ...


I don't disagree with you about the benefits of the competition circuit, and I understand the need to accumulate points to meet your long term objective. But, taking a broader view, in order for the competition circuit to be successful, you need competitors, and a reasonable number of them. I don't know what kind of participation you have had in the Tucson area, but I have attended competitions here with just 2 or 3 people competing in the SQ class. That's not good at all. This area is the birthplace and place of operation of some of the most famous brands in mobile audio and you wouldn't know that based on the attendance at SQ competition events. In order to attract competitors, you need to stimulate interest in the hobby first. I believe that only then will strong, substantial interest in competition flow. We need to convert some meaningful portion of the SPL crowd into SQ participants, and that will happen only by exposing them to the best in SQ purposed vehicles and giving them an opportunity to hear what music reproduced in a vehicle can sound like when accurate reproduction of the recorded material is the goal. And, there are a number of people I have come to know who have been deeply entrenched in the SPL market, but now aspire to build the best SQ oriented vehicle they can after hearing what's possible in a vehicle when SQ is the goal. I think rather than promoting competition, these gatherings should promote a better understanding of what's possible to achieve in the mobile audio environment, and how to achieve that. Ultimately, this will benefit the competition circuit.


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## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

But considering this group is basically seasoned Get Together' ers, couldn't this be the presence needed at local Phoenix shows? Maybe Tucson and Prescott shows?

Bringing awareness and knowledge flows to anyone anywhere, it's in the way you present it, especially when you give one person a chance to see what they really can do and they become hooked.

Being able to discern audiophile reproduction requires being able to hear nuances that need various levels of vehicle performances, from noisy low level to world class systems.

I agree with get togethers to bring various people out, but competitions brig a crowd who don't know the get togethers.

SQ comes off as a very conceited bunch everywhere and that perception needs to change.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

Buzzman said:


> I don't disagree with you about the benefits of the competition circuit, and I understand the need to accumulate points to meet your long term objective. But, taking a broader view, in order for the competition circuit to be successful, you need competitors, and a reasonable number of them. I don't know what kind of participation you have had in the Tucson area, but I have attended competitions here with just 2 or 3 people competing in the SQ class. That's not good at all. This area is the birthplace and place of operation of some of the most famous brands in mobile audio and you wouldn't know that based on the attendance at SQ competition events. In order to attract competitors, you need to stimulate interest in the hobby first. I believe that only then will strong, substantial interest in competition flow. We need to convert some meaningful portion of the SPL crowd into SQ participants, and that will happen only by exposing them to the best in SQ purposed vehicles and giving them an opportunity to hear what music reproduced in a vehicle can sound like when accurate reproduction of the recorded material is the goal. And, there are a number of people I have come to know who have been deeply entrenched in the SPL market, but now aspire to build the best SQ oriented vehicle they can after hearing what's possible in a vehicle when SQ is the goal. I think rather than promoting competition, these gatherings should promote a better understanding of what's possible to achieve in the mobile audio environment, and how to achieve that. Ultimately, this will benefit the competition circuit.


I agree with you. i have talked to some people about raising awareness. the industry is down on a whole- people would rather buy from a internet store, the ecomnoy plays a roll in all of this as well. the days of hanging out at the shop are passing us by. people have changed as well. they never want to commit to something. 

I think we should all work together to get the industry bigger in our state. it is a shame that some of the larger companies are right here in AZ- what is even sadder is that we can not get those same companies to support us in our ventures to help those same companies. Product exposure is what sells.

what is the structure going to be like at these get togethers. is everyone going to sit around and shoot the breeze? Are we going to get some objective feedback on our car audio systems? Are we going to have cliniques? is there going to be classes? 
do any of us have a say in what we want to be at these events? 
i just want to see something productive. 

about the competition thing- you said you only saw 3 or 4 cars in SQL. Did you enter your vehicle? why or why not? I enter my truck in every show. i am constantly fighting for feedback and giving feedback. SQL is down across the country- we are one of the few states trying to fight that. My goal last year was to have the best sounding system in my class in the state last year- and i achieved and earned it. 

we have seen posters constantly invite everyone to our shows and to enter yet no one from here does. we plan for every one to show and everyone tends to flake on us. we have been inviting everyone here for the past year or two. our guys are great and want everyone to come out. 

let me know the type of setting we are dealing with and if we can make suggestions to you guys. if you want my help in this let me know. if not thats ok as well...
truly we want to improve the SQL community in this state. we are reaching out to you guys.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

Cabinatan1 said:


> But considering this group is basically seasoned Get Together' ers, couldn't this be the presence needed at local Phoenix shows? Maybe Tucson and Prescott shows?
> 
> Bringing awareness and knowledge flows to anyone anywhere, it's in the way you present it, especially when you give one person a chance to see what they really can do and they become hooked.
> 
> ...


thanks, you didnt have to call my system world class.  lol jk not really.


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## Casey_Thorson (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm in for the 23rd.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

Guys, I approached Handcrafted a while back about hosting GTG's and pitched them as informal GTG's, as the previous GTG's we had in Phoenix have been. While he agreed to host, I didn't ask or expect him to sign on to sponsor any events, dole out any giveaways, or even go into his pocket. Just to give us a place to meet and access to a ****ter if needed. Handcrafted's participation will likely be minimal, as he will be open for business that day and scheduling clients. Please respect that first.

This means.. basically a bunch of SQ enthusiasts get to gether to demo each other's systems, share tips, shoot the bull, etc. and from that we gradually build a following and support group in the area. Maybe roundtable discussions and competitions are evolutionary steps in this process, but I'm not sure people are ready to jump into that yet. A bunch of people here are in learning mode and still building (or constantly building/redoing) systems and aren't ready to compete or frankly don't give a **** about competing.

If you don't think this approach is productive, because there's no formal structure to it, fine, but right now it's still very much a grass roots effort. If we do anything beyond the informal gathering, then it needs to be entirely self-organized.

Just showing up and meeting people helps encourage future participation and growing the events into something more. In talking with a few people at the last Phx GTG, I was encouraged enough to enter my first MECA comp a few months ago. That's how anything starts.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

If you want me to teach a class let me know. Maybe a class in what to listen for in an SQL system, or on EQ tuning.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

I like that it these event are just a fun day spent with like minded individuals sampling and learning from others and receiving feedback on my system (that I am still building lol). I take time off work to make these events. If it were to get structured and turn into anything other then a fun event I probably would not bother to take the time off work. It is not that I am against comps or anything like that but structure is for work or things like comps and this is neither. This is a FUN day. 

I should add I am one of those previous SPL converted people that, if I had not gone to my first GTG, I would have never known that there could be vocals in a car lol. I imagin that if I attended competitions I would have always found myself watching the SPL lanes and that would have been it. Infact since typing this I remember one comp event that I attended at a shop over there in Tucson many many years ago and all we did was watch the meter and the car owners try to keep their glass from blowing out lol. That may have just been an SPL event though. 

Let's keep the fun in these events.


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

I see where both sides are coming from. Given that I am a DIY guy at heart and that's how I got started, I too enjoy a low key, fun get together. On the flip side, I can see how a competition can spark the curiosity of an attendee who may be into cars but hasn't ventured much into audio yet. Maybe he takes a listen to the first, second and third place car because their finishing in the competition is the only gauge he has as to what is good and what's not. Maybe then he gets more involved. I don't know. 

But I think what ruins these competitions is the fact that there is something tangible to win or, more importantly, lose from it. I just feel that it tends to make the whole atmosphere more tense. What if we did a "competition" but on much less serious terms and nothing that would say "you are the almighty god of sq" but rather separate "awards" for bad ass mid bass or most accurate while maintaining factory locations and the awards can be goofs, kinda like a Christmas prank gift. I just think it would keep people having fun, but then I don't do the competition scene or the get together scene anywhere near as much as most of you.


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## Casey_Thorson (Nov 30, 2010)

Why not just invite these "competitors" out as an opportunity for the GTG regulars to evaluate their cars -- not in a formatted style, but with a simple comment sheet where no points are applied. This will help them down the road by allowing them to gather a broader consensus on where they can improve. Competitions are usually decided by one or two judges opinion, and often from judges less qualified than the GTG regulars. 7-8 people telling you similar things is going to be much more meaningful than one guy giving you a score.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

Here in so cal...meets = 25-40 people, comps 2-10. 

meets = way more fun. imo

although i don't compete, I agree with Casey, I often trust more of the get together guys opinions over some of the judges that have been used around here. 

Feb 23rd? maybe i can make that.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

handcrafted said:


> ..... but rather separate "awards" for bad ass mid bass or most accurate while maintaining factory locations and the awards can be goofs, kinda like a Christmas prank gift. I just think it would keep people having fun, but then I don't do the competition scene or the get together scene anywhere near as much as most of you.


Do heavily modified factory speaker locations count??? My 8's are in my factory 6.5 locations and my 3's and tweets are in the factory tweet locations .




Casey_Thorson said:


> Why not just invite these "competitors" out as an opportunity for the GTG regulars to evaluate their cars -- not in a formatted style, but with a simple comment sheet where no points are applied. This will help them down the road by allowing them to gather a broader consensus on where they can improve. Competitions are usually decided by one or two judges opinion, and often from judges less qualified than the GTG regulars. 7-8 people telling you similar things is going to be much more meaningful than one guy giving you a score.


That is the topic in question by Smogden. He would like there to be Meca involvement for the points. I believe any and all are welcome and I believe the invitation has been extended to him and his friends but in a non comp fashion of coarse. 

BTW are you the gentalman that has the grey VW with Morel decal on it? I said Passat earlier but I am thinking Jetta actually lol. If so I would like to audition your system if it is possible. 



jtaudioacc said:


> Here in so cal...meets = 25-40 people, comps 2-10.
> 
> meets = way more fun. imo
> 
> ...


I hope you can make it John. I would certainly like to hear yours. I did not get to last time. I have my L8's in now but I did not go the kick route like you did.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

I'm good with the 9th or the 23rd.


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## Casey_Thorson (Nov 30, 2010)

@07azhhr

Yes, that would be me, the guy with the Jetta. 

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to say the "competitors" were not invited. What I was implying is they may not come if there wasn't a competition, but presented as an opportunity, maybe they would get involved. 

I understand the need to get points for the finals, but, as JT eluded, GTG's and competitions don't tend to mix well. I've heard this from other clients of mine in different parts of the country as well. And, reading through these posts I get that feeling that is going to be the case here, too. Personally, I think the term "competition" takes the fun out of what we are doing here. However, I, and I would like think some of the other GTG attendees, would love the opportunity to help give some of these future competitors and SQ hopefuls direction. Make it fun for both parties and maybe we can generate more interest locally in the car audio scene. 

Last point... the competition governing bodies as a whole need to do a better job nurturing competitors to help them get to a competitive level, and to keep their interest. Clinics are good, but one-on-one mentoring from more seasoned individuals will make it more inviting for all. As long as all the attendees are openminded, I think this GTG could be a good way to test my theory.


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## Bob Morrow (May 4, 2009)

I'm the guy with white, standard cab "Taco" and would like to attend on 2/23 if I return from my 10 day training tour in time to make it to the event. I'd like to see a renewed interest in SQ in this area and will do what I can to accomplish that goal. Please keep it a low key, non-competitive event. Maybe some critical feedback from some of us industry veterans for the newer guys would be helpful. I know I always like to listen to other people's systems and I look forward to hearing some great ones on February 23, if that's when it ends up being.


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

Smogden said:


> I agree with you. i have talked to some people about raising awareness. the industry is down on a whole- people would rather buy from a internet store, the ecomnoy plays a roll in all of this as well. the days of hanging out at the shop are passing us by. people have changed as well. they never want to commit to something.
> 
> I think we should all work together to get the industry bigger in our state. it is a shame that some of the larger companies are right here in AZ- what is even sadder is that we can not get those same companies to support us in our ventures to help those same companies. Product exposure is what sells.
> 
> ...


I definitely appreciate your passion for the hobby, and your desire to help grow it. These meets tend to be dominated by SQ enthusiasts. But, that doesn't mean SPL enthusiasts are not welcome. Interest in SQ is more likely to be stimulated through exposure to the best in SQ vehicles. Here are links to our last couple of gatherings where you will see photos and be able to read the comments of attendees. I have never heard a bad thing from anyone who attended: 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/12-volt-events-team-diyma/135242-anyone-up-phoenix-gtg-7.html. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...3-phoenix-area-get2gether-march-2012-a-6.html

We welcome ideas from anyone on how to possibly make these gatherings appealing and better. This is what we have done thus far: we offer a casual setting in which we try to listen to as many vehicles as possible, receive feedback on our vehicles, offer feedback on others, share ideas, etc. For some people, just hearing music they never heard before and discovering a new artist is enough to make the day worthwhile. ANT has been very generous and has provided products for raffles/giveaways. IS Tundra made a custom SQ compilation CD for attendees at the last event. And, we make arrangements for food and beverages to be available. As I stated in an earlier post, I think it will be very beneficial to add an interactive element to these which will help better educate the attendees about the industry and how to best achieve SQ objectives. That's why I propose holding a roundtable discussion among highly respected and knowledgeable industry veterans addressing industry issues and how to build and SQ focused vehicle. This would happen over a 60 - 90 minute period while people eat. At one gathering in 2011 Jon K (Handcrafted) delivered a tutorial on gain setting. These are the types of things that will make these gatherings even more appealing and beneficial, and if enough "heavy hitters" are involved people will be more willing to travel longer distances to attend. At the last meet we had 3 cars drive up from So. Cal. to attend. So, if you can put together a crew from Tucson to make a road trip, that would be awesome.


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

jtaudioacc said:


> Here in so cal...meets = 25-40 people, comps 2-10.
> 
> meets = way more fun. imo
> 
> ...


JT in the house!! Man, it would be great to have you here again. Hopefully you can make it. Maybe a few of the So. Cal. crowd could make the trek with you. It would be a reunion.


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## Mindcrime (Jul 18, 2012)

Damn, it looks like I will be missing this one, I will be in Fontana racing that weekend


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Somebody pick a day, already!


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

HondAudio said:


> Somebody pick a day, already!


It's Feb. 23rd!


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Good cause I put in for the time off for that weekend last night .


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## dcabinatan (Nov 26, 2009)

Well, I for one think that needs to be some sort of structure to make it worth attending these GTG's, because how do you know if it's worth taking time off from work to even bother attending. The last couple of GTG's I attended were great for bs-ing with people I hadn't seen in awhile, but I walked around wondering what was the purpose. They were called "clinics", but nothing worth while, in my opinion, was going on. If it's a get together of people with show worthy/competition worthy SQ systems or Joe consumer looking into developing a SQ system, whether for competition or not, and someone is going to provide an RTA and reference material to do tuning, that's great. If some training is going to be provided for those who need it for such things as proper gain setting, time alignment, proper use of a DSP, than that's great. If time is going to be made to discuss the industry and what's going on in the world of car audio, than that has to be established, not just discussed in small groups scattered around the parking lot. It would also be a great opportunity for some training for those that would like to get into judging SQ, whether it's MECA, IASCA or USACi. With the diverse amount of experience and talent that looks to show up, I think it would be of great use for current or future judges. As far as competitions, I agree that they should be kept separate from just casual GTG's. Lots of people have fantastic sounding SQ systems that just don't care to compete, because they built their systems for THEM, not anyone else. And there are also the ones who have never been made aware of competitions, which is what SHOULD be promoted, because what better way to draw in customers, than to have them bit by the bug of car audio competitions. But comepitition is just that, competition, and it can quickly ruin what is supposed to be a fun gathering. Besides, I always want the opportunity to sit in Bob or Casey's vehicles to listen to their systems!


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

I agree to keep the competitions OUT of these gatherings, however, I would not object to a competition REFFERENCE. Paul, this whole educational aspect is still a newborn idea and Buzzman is in the process of developing the future gathering Itineraries. So, I feel that there should be a get together thread to discuss ideas or itinerary agenda organization for future meetings. 
I would love to be able to go to these and feel comfortable enough to learn or receive feedback and give feedback WITHOUT the hassles of competition time constraints ruining the mood or opportunities to receive valuable critiques and feedback. I am all for learning about SQ and am up to the challenge to build a SQL system for myself and it is in my competitive nature to say that I would compete in SQL when I am ready and comfortable with my overall results and feedback.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

I think these are meant to stay casual. I for one like to pick the brains of other enthusiasts and see the differing equipment, installs, and sometimes out of the box interpretations. Everything I see can and possibly will end up being considered on my own install.

I like to see the different ideas, because I know I haven't thought of all the different options. Even if I have a part of my install "done", I may see another way or several ways to do it that may push me to better my own.

No to mention, just the plain fact that I can get other people to listen/critique my install makes it worth it to me. It's like having a targeted audience in advertising. I can have others in the same audiophile mindset (and usually more experience than I) listen to and suggest changes or other directions if need be. 



dcabinatan said:


> Well, I for one think that needs to be some sort of structure to make it worth attending these GTG's, because how do you know if it's worth taking time off from work to even bother attending. The last couple of GTG's I attended were great for bs-ing with people I hadn't seen in awhile, but I walked around wondering what was the purpose. They were called "clinics", but nothing worth while, in my opinion, was going on. If it's a get together of people with show worthy/competition worthy SQ systems or Joe consumer looking into developing a SQ system, whether for competition or not, and someone is going to provide an RTA and reference material to do tuning, that's great. If some training is going to be provided for those who need it for such things as proper gain setting, time alignment, proper use of a DSP, than that's great. If time is going to be made to discuss the industry and what's going on in the world of car audio, than that has to be established, not just discussed in small groups scattered around the parking lot. It would also be a great opportunity for some training for those that would like to get into judging SQ, whether it's MECA, IASCA or USACi. With the diverse amount of experience and talent that looks to show up, I think it would be of great use for current or future judges. As far as competitions, I agree that they should be kept separate from just casual GTG's. Lots of people have fantastic sounding SQ systems that just don't care to compete, because they built their systems for THEM, not anyone else. And there are also the ones who have never been made aware of competitions, which is what SHOULD be promoted, because what better way to draw in customers, than to have them bit by the bug of car audio competitions. But comepitition is just that, competition, and it can quickly ruin what is supposed to be a fun gathering. Besides, I always want the opportunity to sit in Bob or Casey's vehicles to listen to their systems!


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

Offroader5 said:


> I think these are meant to stay casual. I for one like to pick the brains of other enthusiasts and see the differing equipment, installs, and sometimes out of the box interpretations. Everything I see can and possibly will end up being considered on my own install.
> 
> I like to see the different ideas, because I know I haven't thought of all the different options. Even if I have a part of my install "done", I may see another way or several ways to do it that may push me to better my own.
> 
> No to mention, just the plain fact that I can get other people to listen/critique my install makes it worth it to me. It's like having a targeted audience in advertising. I can have others in the same audiophile mindset (and usually more experience than I) listen to and suggest changes or other directions if need be.


I agree 100%.


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## MasterMod (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm a little late to trolling the thread, but I'll be requesting the 23rd off later today lol 

I believe I'll be able to get a newcomer to the sq world to come out, too. I know specifically he's interested in hearing Casey's Jetta.


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## Xtreme Audio & Design (Sep 12, 2011)

I plan on attending also on the 23rd. What time is it going to be? I have to work till 3 that day and then plan on heading over. Should have my GTI pretty dialed by then, just doing some changes since CES.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

Start time will be 4pm on the 23rd. 

Slight chance I may not be able to attend now, as I may be out of town on business that weekend. I was planning on coordinating food & drink for the day, so if I'm out then it may be BYO.


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

ISTundra said:


> Start time will be 4pm on the 23rd.
> 
> Slight chance I may not be able to attend now, as I may be out of town on business that weekend. I was planning on coordinating food & drink for the day, so if I'm out then it may be BYO.


Hey Todd, is that 4:00 "start time" correct? That's pretty late and gives us only about 2.5 hours of daylight. The other GTGs started as early as 11:00 and lasted as late as 7:00. We will have people traveling long distances (as much as 6 hours) to attend, and such a short window will not make it worthwhile for them. 

I sure hope you will be around for the event because you are a valuable member of this mobile audio community, but if you aren't I will be able to pick up the slack regarding food and beverage arrangements.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

Buzzman, 4pm is the start time Handcrafted requested.


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

I agree with Buzzman. 4 p.m. is simply too late in the day to start such an event, in my opinion. limiting the potential duration of the event runs counter to the relaxed atmosphere we're attempting to foster. i recommend that we start much earlier, say 11 a.m., as we've done before. i sincerely hope Handcrafted will reconsider the start time.


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

agreed, earlier would be better. i was hoping to meet all the az guys and listen to as many cars as possible


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## Casey_Thorson (Nov 30, 2010)

jon w. said:


> I agree with Buzzman. 4 p.m. is simply too late in the day to start such an event, in my opinion. limiting the potential duration of the event runs counter to the relaxed atmosphere we're attempting to foster. i recommend that we start much earlier, say 11 a.m., as we've done before. i sincerely hope Handcrafted will reconsider the start time.


+1

So Jon... this mean you're planning to make it out?


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

4pm is decent if we stay until midnight.  I've done 9am until midnight before. 

so, if it's 4pm, where is the pre meet, meet? LOL


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

hi casey! yes, of course! and i'm bringing jeaneth, my wife. i look forward to seeing you and hearing your wonderful demo car.


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

i tried to get steve mccormack to come out with me, but he had other plans already :-(


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## Casey_Thorson (Nov 30, 2010)

Awesome Jon! Look forward to seeing you too!


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

Casey_Thorson said:


> Awesome Jon! Look forward to seeing you too!


Casey, you told me at ces last year you would come to one of our meet in Houston... You really gonna come??? LOL


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## Casey_Thorson (Nov 30, 2010)

SouthSyde said:


> Casey, you told me at ces last year you would come to one of our meet in Houston... You really gonna come??? LOL


That was CES delirium speaking! LOL! But if I happen to be in the area, I'm game!


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

SouthSyde said:


> Casey, you told me at ces last year you would come to one of our meet in Houston... You really gonna come??? LOL


Hey Chad, and last year you said you would come to one of our meets here in the Valley of the Sun. Here is your opportunity to make good on that.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

SouthSyde said:


> Casey, you told me at ces last year you would come to one of our meet in Houston... You really gonna come??? LOL


marketing. :laugh:

don't worry, he's told me the same thing...


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

hes already PROMISED to be at my grand opening!!!

lol i keed i keed  its wishful thinking on my part 

b


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## MasterMod (Jul 14, 2011)

If we need a pre meet area, there is a Costco about a mile away that we might be able to take over a back corner of the parking lot lol


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## Casey_Thorson (Nov 30, 2010)

jtaudioacc said:


> marketing. :laugh:
> 
> don't worry, he's told me the same thing...


Sure, back the bus over me JT! Then give the wheel to Bing... seems he wants a turn too!


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

Under much discussion with many people in the SQL community- I have decided to have a formal round table discussion with the players in the SQL community. We are seriously looking to improve the SQL community an industry. We have contacted many experts in the SQL realms and we have them committed to helping us build this portion of the industry. 

We will be having a formal meeting in the middle of march or April. This meeting will be covering many topics. 

We are committed to the education of Sound Quality. Just because someone has expensive equipment and expensive processors does not mean they have a good sounding system. Many of the "money" system people don't posses the ability to make their vehicle sound good. That ability is good ears, and an understanding to learn from others. 

These sessions with these individuals will not be BS sessions. There is enough BS time at the shop, on the internet;There will be structure. I don't want this to be a waste of anyone's time or gas. 
We are looking for people committed to this. We aren't looking for flakes. 15 years ago SQL was where it was at and now is the time to get it back to that. We will be covering many topics- let me know if you are interested. 

(I don't want to take anything away from this get together- just want inform you of things to come in the SQL community)


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

^ i think that's a good idea. just depends on what the people would be committing to? i would consider myself on the beginner side of things and would still benefit from listening and learning, however i won't mind contributing what i can, when i can.

as far as pre-meet stuff goes, i'd be down for anything. im suspicious that my system needs some tuning help and would like to get some others' ears and hopefully some tools on it to help me


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

Buzzman said:


> Hey Chad, and last year you said you would come to one of our meets here in the Valley of the Sun. Here is your opportunity to make good on that.


Just marketing bro!! hehe j/k

Id love to one day as well, I bet the drive would be gorgeous!  School takes up majority of my time!

On a side note, I did apply to the Dental school in Arizona.. If I get in, Id be at ALL the meets!


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

Is 4:00 pm really going to be the time?


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

HondAudio said:


> Is 4:00 pm really going to be the time?


No. That will be much too late for the reasons already stated. I understand Jon K (Handcrafted) has been asked to move the start time up to Noon. If he is not able to accommodate this earlier time, I have other available options for hosting the event. So, once we hear from him we will know whether we will be having the event at his shop or elsewhere. I am also working on finalizing the panel members and subjects for the roundtable discussion I mentioned in an earlier post. I will announce all of this soon.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

Am I on this panel?  

Seriously- this get together is in a little over 2 weeks. You have a host that has given you a time and a place. How much time do you really need? From everything I have gathered no one wants a structured event. Everyone wants to hang out. 
Everyone needs to be gracious to the host. He is the reason everyone can meet up. You can ask him for an earlier time- but like I said, this event is a little over 2 weeks away. The itinerary should already be set. Keep in mind some people have to plan in advance- 
I don't live in Phoenix- I come from Tucson. I need to know what is going on. That is if you want me to come up there and meet with you guys and let you hear my truck. 

I need to know in advance- I don't drive 2.5 hours just to BS. I think that is fair. I wouldn't expect y'all to drive down here to shoot the breeze either. I don't have time for that. Sorry for my bluntness- hopefully everyone can understand. (I'm not the only one that feels this way- I have received several phone calls about this- I just want y'all to have a great event)


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

how much time? in so cal, we hang out all day. then, go eat. lol. so, i'd say, some of us like to have a long time to hang out. it's not for everyone, but many like to hang a while. 

i'm still planning/hoping to make it out. everyone can hear my new amp setup. :laugh::laugh:


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

A good number of people also would rather just hang out and "MEET AND GREET" and chill rather than to have any competition pressures. The normal time this starts is around noon, sometimes 11am. People travel as far as northern cali or further to come and chill and these meet n greets and others take time off work.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

The real Subzero said:


> A good number of people also would rather just hang out and "MEET AND GREET" and chill rather than to have any competition pressures. The normal time this starts is around noon, sometimes 11am. People travel as far as northern cali or further to come and chill and these meet n greets and others take time off work.


I don't want there to be pressures of competition by no means- 
But I do want to know what all is going to happen- I have offered up my help, ideas, and what not- and I just seemed to be blown off. I want to have a good time just like the rest. I want to help grow the SQL community here in Arizona. It is a passion of mine. But I wan to grow it through education of the topic. 

The reason I mention the planning is just what you said- people want to take off work. Why can't people be flexible for the sake if the host? Why can't people go from 4-8? Someone bring a grill and cook some burgers and hot dogs or what not- everyone sit down for a meal- then get back to what ever it is people are doing. 

If someone feels pressured in a competition for SQL, I need to show them what real pressure is. (Been in the military for 12 years, deployed 10 times in that time frame- I can teach them about pressure) 

We have lost track of all this so far back- this is "supposed" to be fun. 

Shoot ill jump in a SPL competition, and everyone knows my truck is not built for it. Why do I jump in the SPL lane every now and then- because I'm having fun and laughing at myself. 

I think people wont enter a competition because they are afraid of getting their feelings hurt. Also, they may think they can't learn anymore. Or their stuff sucks and they know it  just kidding.


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

Smogden said:


> I don't want there to be pressures of competition by no means-
> But I do want to know what all is going to happen- I have offered up my help, ideas, and what not- and I just seemed to be blown off. I want to have a good time just like the rest. I want to help grow the SQL community here in Arizona. It is a passion of mine. But I wan to grow it through education of the topic.
> 
> The reason I mention the planning is just what you said- people want to take off work. Why can't people be flexible for the sake if the host? Why can't people go from 4-8? Someone bring a grill and cook some burgers and hot dogs or what not- everyone sit down for a meal- then get back to what ever it is people are doing.
> ...


Steve, Thank you for your military service.

Usually I have fun at MECA, IASCA, USACi and DIYMA meets. I still havent had the opportunity to listen to your truck. Your always too busy with competition stuff. Maybe when this event gets finalized and if you can make it up, I will be able to have a listen without the competition taking up too much of your time. I am also considering picking up a 80prs and would like to exibit yours during the demo.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

Here is what happens in so cal. Well, at least since I've been around the meets. We show up, we bs, we talk about all kinds of stuff. We listen to each others cars if we want to. 

Many are inspired by what they hear, which, IMO helps grow SQ. friendships are made. 

Some get good feedback from everyone. Not just one or two judges. Some pretty damn great sounding cars. IASCA national champs, MECA national and state champs, Oscar winners even.  and just then, many others who just don't care to compete but if they did, they'd prolly even upset some of the winners.

IMO, SQ car car audio been greatly influenced by these meets. Talk is great but what really inspires is listening to a great sounding car, SUV or van. 

Anyway, just typing random thoughts. Oh, and we also eat all day long in so cal, too.



















Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

jtaudioacc said:


> Here is what happens in so cal. Well, at least since I've been around the meets. We show up, we bs, we talk about all kinds of stuff. We listen to each others cars if we want to.
> 
> Many are inspired by what they hear, which, IMO helps grow SQ. friendships are made.
> 
> ...


Yes, that’s what it’s all about. I enjoy those things. And they very much nurture the sq community.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Smogden said:


> Seriously- this get together is in a little over 2 weeks. You have a host that has given you a time and a place. How much time do you really need? From everything I have gathered no one wants a structured event. Everyone wants to hang out.
> Everyone needs to be gracious to the host. He is the reason everyone can meet up. You can ask him for an earlier time- but like I said, this event is a little over 2 weeks away. The itinerary should already be set. Keep in mind some people have to plan in advance-
> I don't live in Phoenix- I come from Tucson. I need to know what is going on. That is if you want me to come up there and meet with you guys and let you hear my truck.
> 
> I need to know in advance- I don't drive 2.5 hours just to BS. I think that is fair. I wouldn't expect y'all to drive down here to shoot the breeze either. I don't have time for that. Sorry for my bluntness- hopefully everyone can understand. (I'm not the only one that feels this way- I have received several phone calls about this- I just want y'all to have a great event)


No offense to the host or you. I've never met you, and I've only met Jon @ Handcrafted one time and would love to hang around and pick both your brains, but he (or any other host for that matter) is not "the reason" we can meet up. I'll meet up in a Walmart parking lot if the need arises. It just simply makes more sense to meet at a place that caters to our hobby.

I agree, being this close to the event, the specifics should be ironed out by this time for those planning to attend from further away. I'm not sure why Handcrafted is saying 4pm, but I believe they are open on Saturdays, so I understand that business comes first. IMO though it seems that if there were a group of audio enthusiasts in the parking lot, it would draw people in vs. hinder business.



Smogden said:


> The reason I mention the planning is just what you said- people want to take off work. Why can't people be flexible for the sake if the host? Why can't people go from 4-8? Someone bring a grill and cook some burgers and hot dogs or what not- everyone sit down for a meal- then get back to what ever it is people are doing.
> 
> If someone feels pressured in a competition for SQL, I need to show them what real pressure is. (Been in the military for 12 years, deployed 10 times in that time frame- I can teach them about pressure)
> 
> We have lost track of all this so far back- this is "supposed" to be fun.


On previous get togethers, they have lasted several hours and it's getting dark right now around 6:30. So unless people want to hang around in a dark parking lot, there really isn't much of peoples systems to see without a flashlight.

I for one don't care. I'll hang around till 8...9...10, whatever. I just know that by that time people may want to be at home with families or have other plans for the evening.



Smogden said:


> Shoot ill jump in a SPL competition, and everyone knows my truck is not built for it. Why do I jump in the SPL lane every now and then- because I'm having fun and laughing at myself.
> 
> I think people wont enter a competition because they are afraid of getting their feelings hurt. Also, they may think they can't learn anymore. Or their stuff sucks and they know it  just kidding.


I remember once when I entered a DB Drag at an Ultimate Electronics... Just because....I was already there, and figured what the hell. 
With my crappy S-10 system running two 12's in a bandpass blow through. That was funny watching the look on peoples faces when I hit a whooping 143 ...lol


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

Guys, I have been attending and organizing meets like this in So. Cal since 2006, and I have organized virtually every GTG we have had since I moved to the Valley of the Sun in summer, 2010. You have seen the pics JT Audio has posted of what So. Cal. meets are like, and I have posted pics of our two most recent meets here. There haven't been, and so long as I am involved, there will not be, any "competition" element to these GTG's. So, as far as planning goes, considering my past history with these meets, with all due respect I know what needs to be done. We have accomplished the most important things: setting a date, and a possible location. These meets have all started between 11:00 a.m. and Noon, and I think it's fair to say that there is a consensus on this being necessary. At all of our previous meets some stayed till the coyotes came out, some had to get home early to take care of kids or "honey do's." But, the key was that we carved out enough time in the day to allow everyone to do what they had to do while enjoying the event. Therefore, this meet will be no different. Handcrafted has hosted our meets in the past and his generosity in doing so is greatly appreciated. He is a valuable member of our car audio community. If, however, due to business concerns or whatever he cannot accommodate a Noon start time, I trust he will understand that we cannot hold this meet at his location and another location will be announced in this thread. And, it will be in this area, so it's not as though you will have to drive to a different state. As I have said already, I think these GTGs will be enhanced if we incorporated an interactive, educational component. Thus, my plan to have a roundtable discussion on subjects that will benefit all who attend. I already have commitments from some of the most respected people involved in this hobby and will announce the names soon. This will last between 1 hour and 90 minutes, and occur during what would be "lunch time." So, all you need to do is pimp your ride, get your tuning done, come on up or down (depending on where you are coming from), and plan to see old friends, make new friends, hear systems of all levels of accomplishment, learn some things that will help you achieve your goals, and eat a lot of food. This ain't rocket science.


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

jt, i hope you get to make it over, i'd love to hear your new setup. and i did enjoy the meets at your place.

this will be my first az meet and cant wait to see/hear the new cars. i did talk to john a few days ago and he seemed pretty adamant on the after 4 start time and it did involve his business being a priority, which i think we can all respect. if it were held somewhere else to allow an earlier start time, i think that would be better. sunlight is still at a premium and i believe that most will want to do the most listening, looking and b.s.'ing before the sun goes down.

if my thoughts, suggestions, ideas were wanted or needed for any roundtable discussions, they'd be generously offered.

either way, im looking forward to this


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Smogden said:


> Am I on this panel?
> 
> Seriously- this get together is in a little over 2 weeks. You have a host that has given you a time and a place. How much time do you really need? From everything I have gathered no one wants a structured event. Everyone wants to hang out.
> Everyone needs to be gracious to the host. He is the reason everyone can meet up. You can ask him for an earlier time- but like I said, this event is a little over 2 weeks away. The itinerary should already be set. Keep in mind some people have to plan in advance-
> ...


Sorry for my bluntness here but c'mon man. Stop pushing so hard. If you do not want to drive 2.5 hrs to shoot the **** and enjoy a casual gathering then you are more then welcome to no take that drive. The choice to drive here to attend this gathering is all on you. I work nights and work 12 hour shifts so I have to make the choice to take 2 nights off work to attend. That is 100% on me you know what I mean. 

I know I could benefit from picking your brain and hearing your system and getting your advice on how to better my system but with your attitude in this thread it makes it hard to want to interact with you.

If you really want a structured event, and it really sounds like you do, then perhaps it would benefit you to organize that type of event over in Tucson. Then if any of us wanted to attend, it would be on us and not you. But you are trying to dictate this event and that does not come off as being a friendly person.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

I'm a very friendly person. I just like to know what's going on. 

I tell you what- I am going to do my best to get up there on the 23rd. However, I'm planning a show on the 3rd of March here in Tucson. I would love for all you guys to make it down here. It is going to be an amazing event. We all talk about systems and cars. 
Once the flyer is proofed I will post it on this site. That way we can talk more about SQL and all the different aspects. So anyone willing to do that? We will come up there show our vehicles and hang out and eat all y'all's food  lol

Subzero- sorry about all the running around at the shows.  I tend to get really busy. Organizing the past shows is very demanding. 
The very next time I see you I am putting you in the drivers seat and letting you hear the truck. Tomorrow we are doing some more work on it. We have the new SQ box done. Now it is time to start ironing out some other things. I have to tune the lower end some more. But it's getting better and better. The problem is finding all the time to do everything.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Smogden said:


> I'm a very friendly person.


I believe you  and am the same. The internet sometimes gets in the way of others knowing this.


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

Hey guys, I'm sorry for taking so damn long to respond here. It's been crazy around here lately. You guys can plan this thing for whatever time works best for you. All I ask is that you guys keep the party outside until we close and if you need to use the bathroom, come in one at a time and don't blow it up! . My shop isn't huge and it's easy to make it feel crowded and I would hate for a client who comes in that day to feel that way. After we close, I'll be more than happy to show anybody around who wants to see. See you guys then!


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

handcrafted said:


> Hey guys, I'm sorry for taking so damn long to respond here. It's been crazy around here lately. You guys can plan this thing for whatever time works best for you. All I ask is that you guys keep the party outside until we close and if you need to use the bathroom, come in one at a time and don't blow it up! . My shop isn't huge and it's easy to make it feel crowded and I would hate for a client who comes in that day to feel that way. After we close, I'll be more than happy to show anybody around who wants to see. See you guys then!


That sounds like a great plan. The past meets I have attended have been outdoors oriented as that is where the cars are at. Seems your shop is about 15 minutes from my home. I look forward to meeting you and visiting your shop.


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

sweet! are there any food/beverage needs that wont break my bank?


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

handcrafted said:


> Hey guys, I'm sorry for taking so damn long to respond here. It's been crazy around here lately. You guys can plan this thing for whatever time works best for you. All I ask is that you guys keep the party outside until we close and if you need to use the bathroom, come in one at a time and don't blow it up! . My shop isn't huge and it's easy to make it feel crowded and I would hate for a client who comes in that day to feel that way. After we close, I'll be more than happy to show anybody around who wants to see. See you guys then!


Jon, many thanks for accommodating us and supporting this event. We will make sure we don't disrupt your business, and hopefully this helps your business. I will contact you by phone to discuss how we can make some things I am coordinating work within your parameters. 



brett said:


> sweet! are there any food/beverage needs that wont break my bank?


Brett, Todd [ISTundra] or I will contact you about this. We very much appreciate your offer to help.


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

Offroader5 said:


> No offense to the host or you. I've never met you, and I've only met Jon @ Handcrafted one time and would love to hang around and pick both your brains, but he (or any other host for that matter) is not "the reason" we can meet up. I'll meet up in a Walmart parking lot if the need arises. It just simply makes more sense to meet at a place that caters to our hobby.
> 
> I agree, being this close to the event, the specifics should be ironed out by this time for those planning to attend from further away. I'm not sure why Handcrafted is saying 4pm, but I believe they are open on Saturdays, so I understand that business comes first. IMO though it seems that if there were a group of audio enthusiasts in the parking lot, it would draw people in vs. hinder business.
> 
> ...


I think I remember that one and your truck! At the Chandler store right?

The only reason I think a bunch of people hanging around would hinder business is because my place is relatively small compared to what you guys might be thinking and it is easy to feel crowded. I don't know about you guys, but when I ma making a big purchase, I don't like feeling like I'm caught up in the moment. Other than that though, I'm sure that if somebody came in for an audio consult, saw all you guys and I told them that we were hosting an event catered to SQ, they'd be sold!



brett said:


> jt, i hope you get to make it over, i'd love to hear your new setup. and i did enjoy the meets at your place.
> 
> this will be my first az meet and cant wait to see/hear the new cars. i did talk to john a few days ago and he seemed pretty adamant on the after 4 start time and it did involve his business being a priority, which i think we can all respect. if it were held somewhere else to allow an earlier start time, i think that would be better. sunlight is still at a premium and i believe that most will want to do the most listening, looking and b.s.'ing before the sun goes down.
> 
> ...


Yeah sorry about that Brett, I was a little hungry, as you knew, and probably a bit cranky. I'm not so hard up about the time, just wanna make sure that we don't jeopardize business for it. Sorry if I came off wrong.

From what I hear, the meet has been moved to a different location anyway so I guess there's really not a need for this post, ha ha! Don got in touch with me and had some requests that I guess I could not fill satisfactorily. It's kind of a bummer because I was looking forward to hosting it and I had already invited some other groups that I am involved with to come down with their cars, so I guess I'll have to tell them it's off. Or maybe we will still do our thing, who knows? I'll let you guys know if we do still get together, maybe you can swing by when you're done.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

handcrafted said:


> From what I hear, the meet has been moved to a different location anyway so I guess there's really not a need for this post, ha ha! Don got in touch with me and had some requests that I guess I could not fill satisfactorily. It's kind of a bummer because I was looking forward to hosting it and I had already invited some other groups that I am involved with to come down with their cars, so I guess I'll have to tell them it's off. Or maybe we will still do our thing, who knows? I'll let you guys know if we do still get together, maybe you can swing by when you're done.


Don, the location has been moved? To where?

Please do post up if you still have yours...I'd be willing to come by.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

what more do we need than an occasional restroom break and some drinks? lol


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

JT, I was asked about providing a power source for The Magic Bus to plug into and the use of the bay after hours for this round table discussion so as to be free of noise. I could only offer an outlet in the back of the shop, as an extension cord running out the front door would prevent my buzzer from letting me know when people came in. As for the use of the shop, Saturday is the end of my 6 day work week and I feel that my wife and daughter, as well as the families of my employees, deserve to have us around. So I cannot commit to sticking around after hours for this round table discussion. However, the use of the area around the shop would have been available as long as needed after I locked up. Similar to what Signature did, except that we would be open at some point in the day!


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

handcrafted said:


> JT, I was asked about providing a power source for The Magic Bus to plug into and the use of the bay after hours for this round table discussion so as to be free of noise. I could only offer an outlet in the back of the shop, as an extension cord running out the front door would prevent my buzzer from letting me know when people came in. As for the use of the shop, Saturday is the end of my 6 day work week and I feel that my wife and daughter, as well as the families of my employees, deserve to have us around. So I cannot commit to sticking around after hours for this round table discussion. However, the use of the area around the shop would have been available as long as needed after I locked up. Similar to what Signature did, except that we would be open at some point in the day!



hey jon, its cool and completely understandable; if people are really having a problem with it then I have a sneaky suspicion they don't understand alot of other things!

sooo.... that being said, where's this thing going down? (if it's still going down!)


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

Perhaps Brett, perhaps. Not sure about the new location. I'm sure Don will post up here and let everybody know where he has decided to hold this get together. How's the labels coming? Did you try what we talked about?


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

not yet. ive been pretty busy getting my new-employment under way and established; business before please you know? wait, may be preaching to the choir on that one! but i have been tuning every other day and while im still pretty new to this tuning game (with an active dsp) i do find improvement in each attempt


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

Rome wasn't built in a day man. Maybe one of these days we will tune up your car for ya. Just gotta wait til it's slow! Actually, that would be pretty cool to do at a get together as a demo. I did a level setting demo once at a gtg on a bench, but in a car would be cool!


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

sure, i'd be totally down for that! im just a little embarrassed at the state of my install right now.


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

That's just motivation to get it fixed!


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

brett said:


> sure, i'd be totally down for that! im just a little embarrassed at the state of my install right now.


Your not alone on that one. I have everything up and running but still need to go back and finish a lot of things. Heck I even need to rewrap my pillars for a third time lol. I will get the hang of vinyling someday. 


As for tune I am in the same boat there too. I think we need a learning event one weekend where we pick a car or two and have some of the more knowledgable people give a tutorial. I will volunteer my car .


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## Xtreme Audio & Design (Sep 12, 2011)

handcrafted said:


> JT, I was asked about providing a power source for The Magic Bus to plug into and the use of the bay after hours for this round table discussion so as to be free of noise. I could only offer an outlet in the back of the shop, as an extension cord running out the front door would prevent my buzzer from letting me know when people came in. As for the use of the shop, Saturday is the end of my 6 day work week and I feel that my wife and daughter, as well as the families of my employees, deserve to have us around. So I cannot commit to sticking around after hours for this round table discussion. However, the use of the area around the shop would have been available as long as needed after I locked up. Similar to what Signature did, except that we would be open at some point in the day!


Well **** Jon, If I knew that you were providing power then I guess I will install my power supply into my car as well. I was not assuming that you were going to provide power. I could go buy a generator to supply power to my vehicle as well or if the battery gets low just start my car.  Either way my vehicle will be able to be listened too.


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## Xtreme Audio & Design (Sep 12, 2011)

07azhhr said:


> As for tune I am in the same boat there too. I think we need a learning event one weekend where we pick a car or two and have some of the more knowledgable people give a tutorial. I will volunteer my car .


We could probably plan something with this. I can talk to Casey Thorson about this as I am not an expert and have learned a great deal to this awesome guy with setting up and tuning my GTI. I would not have a problem hosting a tuning session and learning event on an RTA at my shop. Casey and I both have the same RTA and are still learning some very cool things that it is capable of doing.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Xtreme Audio & Design said:


> We could probably plan something with this. I can talk to Casey Thorson about this as I am not an expert and have learned a great deal to this awesome guy with setting up and tuning my GTI. I would not have a problem hosting a tuning session and learning event on an RTA at my shop. Casey and I both have the same RTA and are still learning some very cool things that it is capable of doing.


That would be very cool. This is something that will take more then an hour and would be better to go thru and learn in one shot as opposed to small parts every few months. Thus why I am suggesting it to be seperate from this event.


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## Xtreme Audio & Design (Sep 12, 2011)

Ya totally to be separate and also probably a vey large crowd. We could plan something and discuss it at the event. Do you know where the new meet will be?


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

Xtreme Audio & Design said:


> Well **** Jon, If I knew that you were providing power then I guess I will install my power supply into my car as well. I was not assuming that you were going to provide power. I could go buy a generator to supply power to my vehicle as well or if the battery gets low just start my car.  Either way my vehicle will be able to be listened too.


I wasn't planning on it ya damn mooch! I was just goin to do it for the bus because I'm sure it would be running all day. 

As for the level setting and tuning event, I wouldn't think it would take more than 1.5-2 hours. All I think needs to happen is to get a basic understanding of what to do and where to start. We don't wanna throw you guys in too deep at first. I could easily do that in the time it would take to do the round table discussion, and I wouldn't mind sticking around a bit for it either. If you guys wanna keep the meet at my place and plan on doing this, I'm down, we just need one of your cars.


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey Guys, sorry I have been away from the thread for a few days. The Meet is now being held at the same location as our November Meet, the property of JSC Motorcars and Epic Audio Solutions (Rich Agins). The address is 7863 East McCLain Drive, Scottsdale, AZ 85260. Here is a link to a map of the location for those who did not attend last time: 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=7863...3,+Scottsdale,+Arizona+85260&t=m&z=15&iwloc=A

Given the things being planned, this was necessary. Our event will be the only "business" being conducted there that day, so we will have a lot of freedom and flexibility. We will get things rolling officially at Noon, and at 3:00 p.m. we will take a break from listening to cars and eyeballing the cool, classic cars on the property, and hold a panel discussion on SQ and Industry related Issues. I will announce the entire panel in a few days, but thus far Jon Whitledge and Earl Zausmer (yes, the guy with the Killer BMW from the early '90s written up in all the magazines) have committed to be on the panel. And, we will have a Question/Answer component. The discussion will be held *indoors*, and will be recorded by Jon W so it can be posted on the forum afterwards. Jon is also being extremely generous and will be bringing a portable PA system for broadcast of the discussion. Food and beverages will be provided, but do feel free to bring your own or something to share with the others attending. The last time we did this, the lot didn't empty till almost 8:00, so plan accordingly. See you next Saturday!


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## Xtreme Audio & Design (Sep 12, 2011)

Buzzman said:


> Hey Guys, sorry I have been away from the thread for a few days. The Meet is now being held at the same location as our November Meet, the property of JSC Motorcars and Epic Audio Solutions (Rich Agins). The address is 7863 East McCLain Drive, Scottsdale, AZ 85260. Here is a link to a map of the location for those who did not attend last time:
> 
> https://maps.google.com/maps?q=7863...3,+Scottsdale,+Arizona+85260&t=m&z=15&iwloc=A
> 
> Given the things being planned, this was necessary. Our event will be the only "business" being conducted there that day, so we will have a lot of freedom and flexibility. We will get things rolling officially at Noon, and at 3:00 p.m. we will take a break from listening to cars and eyeballing the cool, classic cars on the property, and hold a panel discussion on SQ and Industry related Issues. I will announce the entire panel in a few days, but thus far Jon Whitledge and Earl Zausmer (yes, the guy with the Killer BMW from the early '90s written up in all the magazines) have committed to be on the panel. And, we will have a Question/Answer component. The discussion will be held *indoors*, and will be recorded by Jon W so it can be posted on the forum afterwards. Jon is also being extremely generous and will be bringing a portable PA system for broadcast of the discussion. Food and beverages will be provided, but do feel free to bring your own or something to share with the others attending. The last time we did this, the lot didn't empty till almost 8:00, so plan accordingly. See you next Saturday!


Wow this is not cool to switch venues a week before just because little things. I totally agree with everything that Jon at Handcrafted has said about his business be operational and to not interfere with his normal day to day operations. I was really considering also offering my location in the future to host this event also but after ready how the "GTG" needs to be run at the location I will not close my business for a day to allow the GTG to be the "ONLY" thing happening. I hope that you still are going to have this event at Handcrafted as Jon as offered when Todd went to Jon and asked and has been planning this. 

As far as the tuning and RTA session I would still be down for this and Jon is offering as well. With Jon's info and tools and my tools we could show you different measuring tools and probably pros and cons on both.


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

Xtreme Audio & Design said:


> Wow this is not cool to switch venues a week before just because little things. I totally agree with everything that Jon at Handcrafted has said about his business be operational and to not interfere with his normal day to day operations. I was really considering also offering my location in the future to host this event also but after ready how the "GTG" needs to be run at the location I will not close my business for a day to allow the GTG to be the "ONLY" thing happening. I hope that you still are going to have this event at Handcrafted as Jon as offered when Todd went to Jon and asked and has been planning this.
> 
> As far as the tuning and RTA session I would still be down for this and Jon is offering as well. With Jon's info and tools and my tools we could show you different measuring tools and probably pros and cons on both.


With all due respect, the location change is not due to "little things." Jon offered his location, and that is much appreciated. But, his business is his priority, which it should be, as well as getting home to his family after his shop closes, which it should be. He could not accommodate certain of our needs because to do so would have interfered with his business and personal plans. Thus the move to this location which allows us to do everything we had planned all along, in the manner necessary so that those attending get maximum benefit.


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

Actually Don, the only thing that I could not accommodate you on 100% that was needed was the use of the bay for your round table discussion, which was not part of the plan when I agreed to do this. Have you asked how many people are actually interested in this round table discussion or is it something that you just want to do? Everybody that I have talked to is not interested in it and if that were not happening, we would have no issue. 
I think it is very inconsiderate of you to change the venue at the last minute after I had already made plans to have it here without letting me know that if I could not provide the things that I was not asked to provide in the beginning, the event would be moved. If you had told me that I would need to provide these things in the beginning, I would have been able to make a decision then and there. Even still, as things tend to change as they go along, if you had told me when we were emailing back and forth about this that you were going to move the event if I could not provide these things, I may have tried to change things up to accommodate you guys so as to not waste the plans and time I had already put into this.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

handcrafted said:


> Actually Don, the only thing that I could not accommodate you on 100% that was needed was the use of the bay for your round table discussion, which was not part of the plan when I agreed to do this. Have you asked how many people are actually interested in this round table discussion or is it something that you just want to do? Everybody that I have talked to is not interested in it and if that were not happening, we would have no issue.
> I think it is very inconsiderate of you to change the venue at the last minute after I had already made plans to have it here without letting me know that if I could not provide the things that I was not asked to provide in the beginning, the event would be moved. If you had told me that I would need to provide these things in the beginning, I would have been able to make a decision then and there. Even still, as things tend to change as they go along, if you had told me when we were emailing back and forth about this that you were going to move the event if I could not provide these things, I may have tried to change things up to accommodate you guys so as to not waste the plans and time I had already put into this.


100% agree!!!!!!!!
Buzzman, why don't we do it at your shop???

Jon, doesn't deserve to be pushed around. And blindsided on the Internet- I think he deserves much more respect than that. You pretty much said thanks but no thanks. No good man. With this last minute Tom foolery, I will not be attending. The lack of respect, planning, and the controlling attitude- not my thing. I can not promote this to anyone in the SQL community. What was done to Jon is inexcusable. From reading every post in here- it is Buzzman's way or the highway.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

handcrafted said:


> I wasn't planning on it ya damn mooch! I was just goin to do it for the bus because I'm sure it would be running all day.
> 
> As for the level setting and tuning event, I wouldn't think it would take more than 1.5-2 hours. All I think needs to happen is to get a basic understanding of what to do and where to start. We don't wanna throw you guys in too deep at first. I could easily do that in the time it would take to do the round table discussion, and I wouldn't mind sticking around a bit for it either. If you guys wanna keep the meet at my place and plan on doing this, I'm down, we just need one of your cars.


I understand about not wanting to overwhelm. But if we only get smallish sections of tuning each time it could take months and months to finally know how to tune. Atleast that is my fear.

Todd is willing to help/teach me but seeing that I am not the only one who needs this, it seems it would be better served to do this as a group.


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

The way I figure it, by the time I'm done, you'd know how to set gains, do time alignment and use an RTA for basic EQ setup after the first session. I hadn't even figured on more sessions than that but if there were, then I guess it would like advanced EQ setups and whatnot.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

handcrafted said:


> The way I figure it, by the time I'm done, you'd know how to set gains, do time alignment and use an RTA for basic EQ setup after the first session. I hadn't even figured on more sessions than that but if there were, then I guess it would like advanced EQ setups and whatnot.


Those are the things I am talking about too. But do you really think with a group that may have many questions this could be completed in as little as two hours? If it truely can then cool and no need for a long day.



P.S. just left your new shop layout thread and have to say that if we were to still have this at your shop I would have a hard time staying out of it. Looks great man.


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

Dear Friends,

Because I will be attending the Meet next Saturday and plan to participate in the proposed roundtable discussion, I'd like to offer my thoughts on the recent exchanges concerning the change of venue. Oftentimes, as appears to be the case here, there are circumstances that just don't align perfectly for any number of reasons, and choices have to be made. There are two separate things that the parties are trying to accommodate here: a meeting of car audio enthusiasts, and the operation of a business and the business owner's business and personal priorities. I attended the last Meet in November which happened to be held at JSC Motorcars/Epic Audio Solutions. We enjoyed the freedom to start in the late morning and continue into the early evening. They provided unlimited 120 V power (for the numerous cars that needed it), and even a couple indoor parking spaces! This kind of setting is advantageous, and by moving the event there, we do not have to worry about intruding on the host's business or personal life, and his priorities do not limit what we can do with this event. To me, the reasons to change could not be more reasonable and sensible, and the decision to change should not be viewed as a lack of appreciation for Handcrafted's offer to host. I enthusiastically support Don's (Buzzman) decision to change the venue location to JSC Motorcars and Epic Audio Solutions. 

As many of you know, I exhibit at North America's largest high-end audio shows, featuring as many as 7,000 attendees. As prestigious as those shows may be, there is something special about the intimate and personal shows, particularly those hosted by JT and Don. JT and Don constantly exhibit an unparalleled level of professionalism in, and a tireless passion for, the mobile audio industry. Their events are known for attracting some of the industry's greatest professionals and enthusiasts. And every time we attend one of these events, it seems like something unexpected and wonderful happens. Meeting ANT, for example, was certainly one of the highlights for me.

Ever since the last event held in Scottsdale, Don has discussed with me and others about having a round table discussion focused on SQ and industry issues. Don has invited a number of supremely talented, important, and otherwise noteworthy industry experts to participate. This first inaugural round table discussion could be the start of something big. I believe this event is so important, I've agreed to record it, and to provide a sound reinforcement system featuring Dynaudio's revolutionary Xeo5 wireless loudspeakers. As a panel member, this is an incredible opportunity to share your thoughts and views on sound quality while at the same time proudly representing your business. As an attendee, this is an exciting opportunity to have your questions, which will be heard by the entire audio community, answered by a panel of industry experts. It's easy to see how an event of this magnitude is best done indoors. I am sure Don sincerely hopes you'll attend this sensational event and be an important part of mobile audio history. For those unable to attend, we hope the recording of the event will in some small way help you feel like you were there!

Warmest Regards,
Jon Whitledge


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

07azhhr said:


> Those are the things I am talking about too. But do you really think with a group that may have many questions this could be completed in as little as two hours? If it truely can then cool and no need for a long day.
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. just left your new shop layout thread and have to say that if we were to still have this at your shop I would have a hard time staying out of it. Looks great man.


Thank you man, I really appreciate that!

Well, if you ask my wife, she will tell you that I often estimate a certain amount of time less than what a job actually takes. I guess if there were a lot of questions it would certainly take longer. I guess we can hash out the details when I plan my next meet.


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

jon w. said:


> Dear Friends,
> 
> Because I will be attending the Meet next Saturday and plan to participate in the proposed roundtable discussion, I'd like to offer my thoughts on the recent exchanges concerning the change of venue. Oftentimes, as appears to be the case here, there are circumstances that just don't align perfectly for any number of reasons, and choices have to be made. There are two separate things that the parties are trying to accommodate here: a meeting of car audio enthusiasts, and the operation of a business and the business owner's business and personal priorities. I attended the last Meet in November which happened to be held at JSC Motorcars/Epic Audio Solutions. We enjoyed the freedom to start in the late morning and continue into the early evening. They provided unlimited 120 V power (for the numerous cars that needed it), and even a couple indoor parking spaces! This kind of setting is advantageous, and by moving the event there, we do not have to worry about intruding on the host's business or personal life, and his priorities do not limit what we can do with this event. To me, the reasons to change could not be more reasonable and sensible, and the decision to change should not be viewed as a lack of appreciation for Handcrafted's offer to host. I enthusiastically support Don's (Buzzman) decision to change the venue location to JSC Motorcars and Epic Audio Solutions.
> 
> ...


Jon, 
Thank you for your well thought out response. I too agree that the new venue is a better place for this particular gtg, given the things that you all hope to accomplish. While it certainly is possible for us to hold it inside our bay at the end of the day, I simply cannot guarantee this as we all know how working on cars can go sometimes! So, it is not the logistics behind the change of venue that bothers me, but rather how it was handled. 

When I was asked to do this, I was told that there would be practically nothing required of me and that past events were held in the parking lot of a closed shop, so mine simply being open would be more accommodating than that event. Now, the person who approached me about it, ISTundra, did not know about these plans for the round table at the time so there is no reason that he could have told me. Don, however, certainly could have asked me if I could provide the things that you guys need earlier than a week before the show so that I might be able to make time to reschedule some things to accommodate. In his communications with me, he could have been clearer about how badly these things were needed and when he decided to change venues at the last minute, he could have atleast contacted me himself to tell me. 

I am not saying that I was about to hire live music and catering, but I had made some plans around having the event at my shop and got some people excited. These plans will now need to be cancelled and the people will not go to the meet if I am not there. Plain and simple, the way it was handled shows a complete lack of respect for me and my time. I am still, however, excited about hosting more of my own get togethers. I'll keep you in touch as I put them together and maybe you can come out for one. i was really looking forward to hearing your bus! 

Good luck with the meet, I hope it turns out as awesome as you envision!


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

Buzzman said:


> Hey Guys, sorry I have been away from the thread for a few days. The Meet is now being held at the same location as our November Meet, the property of JSC Motorcars and Epic Audio Solutions (Rich Agins). The address is 7863 East McCLain Drive, Scottsdale, AZ 85260. Here is a link to a map of the location for those who did not attend last time:
> 
> https://maps.google.com/maps?q=7863...3,+Scottsdale,+Arizona+85260&t=m&z=15&iwloc=A
> 
> Given the things being planned, this was necessary. Our event will be the only "business" being conducted there that day, so we will have a lot of freedom and flexibility. We will get things rolling officially at Noon, and at 3:00 p.m. we will take a break from listening to cars and eyeballing the cool, classic cars on the property, and hold a panel discussion on SQ and Industry related Issues. I will announce the entire panel in a few days, but thus far Jon Whitledge and Earl Zausmer (yes, the guy with the Killer BMW from the early '90s written up in all the magazines) have committed to be on the panel. And, we will have a Question/Answer component. The discussion will be held *indoors*, and will be recorded by Jon W so it can be posted on the forum afterwards. Jon is also being extremely generous and will be bringing a portable PA system for broadcast of the discussion. Food and beverages will be provided, but do feel free to bring your own or something to share with the others attending. The last time we did this, the lot didn't empty till almost 8:00, so plan accordingly. See you next Saturday!


see you there.


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

i dont like it when mom and dad fight!

seriously, i understand everybody's position on this, but i just wanted to hang out and meet some people and listen to cars.


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

Hey! Shut up and go to your room!!!! Sorry, couldn't help myself. 

No worries Brett, your ability to do that was never in danger. I hate it when things turn out this way also, but I'm not one to just stand by and not say something when I feel I've been wronged. But I think this topic is done now anyway, we should just move on.


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

Dear friends,

As I continue to monitor this thread I must say that I am truly troubled that all the recent dialogue has been directed at venting feelings and attacking others, rather than seeing the BIG PICTURE. The Big Picture here is recognizing the importance of the GREATER GOOD and moving forward positively to achieve it. The greater good, in this case, is the CO-CREATION of a stellar audio event on February 23, 2013, that everybody wants to attend and which helps promote and build a struggling industry. I think we all now know that Jon K is upset about the change in venue. But in the long run, Handcrafted and other mobile audio businesses benefit from events like this, whether they are held at their shop or not. Indeed, without a customer base, they have no business. Thus, our efforts here should be on how to make this event, and others like it that will follow, the best they can be and drive maximum participation and attendance. If potential attendees adopt an attitude like Smogden's, rightly or wrongly (no judgement here), it's this event, and ultimately the audio industry, that loses. Sure, Smogden's beliefs, principles, and integrity are preserved. Apparently, he feels as though he's gotten the "last word" and has "won", but what he, and others who think like him, don't realize is that we must rise above our own personal feelings and give of ourselves to achieve the greater good. The mobile audio industry NEEDS our enthusiasm and support! Each of us brings a SPECIAL ENERGY and GIFT to the world of mobile audio and the industry. Smogden, and others who think like Smogden, please reconsider. Rather than wondering if the event is "worth your time," come to the event and make it the kind of event you'd want to attend! Banning or undermining the February 23, 2013 event may make a powerful personal statement of position, but in the end, you are fracturing an already broken industry. Let's focus on the Big Picture folks.

Warmest regards,
Jon Whitledge


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## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

Sorry I feel the same way about a fractured industry but its in no way different then not showing up to a competition scene. 
Ban me, criticize me or help, but we are all in this together to help.

All we ask for is your help bringing together a bigger SQ event, regardless of you guys competing or not, I for one will not be competing for awhile or demoing a system as I just sold my championship vehicle. 

Regardless, any event should have contribution from everyone who enjoys this hobby.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

Wow! Thanks for calling me out. So I guess it ok to disrespect shop owners for the greater good? Is that what we are saying? My problem is with the inconsiderate respect and saying it benefits the SQL community. To me that is wrong. Has anyone considered Jon himself. He rearranged his life to have this GtG. The man has a family. I am a family man myself. Car audio comes way down the line compared to family. This isn't a greater good thing. This industry is failing because of the lack of consideration of people. Jon has bills to pay- this would have been great to help him stimulate his business. But because of what one person wants to do he get blindsided. 

I made suggestions- I was told to shut up and color. I guess because I'm a "noob". Who knows. At first I was very excited about this. I thought this was a group I people that cared what others thought. But I was mistaken. I'm sorry I won't "shut up and color". If something is wrong- I will say it. What if Jon K had invested money in food and such? We're y'all going to pay him back? Why couldn't Anton figure a way to have this "round table" incorporated? Why couldn't the round table been done in a separate time and venue? 

If something isn't right I will say it. 
I plan and promote shows for 2 of the 4 major sanctioning bodies in the US. Do you know how hard it is to get a host? And I fun a host that will work with you? It is extremely hard. When I plan and promote I pay a special respect to my hosts. I respect their sacrifice and hard work. Jon K is an installer of the year. I think he deserves the respect due to him. I how about the guy that initially planned this with Jon K? All his hard work for organizing has been given the middle finger. 

Why hasn't anyone apologized to Jon??? 

I was planning on coming up next Saturday and giving demos all day long. Letting my kid run around and eat all y'all's food. I was going to talk to people and encourage people. I had printed out judges/evaluation sheets to give to people to help in demoing. I was really excited to come up even though I was told by people they weren't interested in my feedback. 

We want the SQL community to succeed?? Then we have to be considerate to others. Quit thinking about yourselves.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

Well Jon W- we have competitors, hobbyists, and folks that are new to SQL in here. I agree in having co-created events. I propose in the coming months something that incorporates all these things into amazing events. 
Comp, barbq, education, BS sessions, demos, and awards all in one event. 
We can have an itinerary. Jon K suggested some "different" type of awards as well. Maybe have 50/50 raffles. I want us to all have a great time. 

I'm all about repairing the community but everyone has to give a little. We need to unite not divide. 

Also rotate GtG areas between Phoenix and Tucson. We want expansion.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

Feel free to join the Arizona SQL group. 

http://www.facebook.com/groups/111594152328383/


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## handcrafted (Sep 22, 2009)

One thing is for sure you guys, Jon is right that we need to get away from the negativity of this whole thread and try to get the focus back onto a successful event. The last thing we want is for the efforts of those driving in from out of town and taking time off of work to attend to be for nothing.

Also, while I have before and do still agree that the new venue is better set up for what this event has now become, the way that this whole thing has been handled without so much as an apology from Don or even the decency of acknowledging his actions publicly or privately has left a very bad taste in my mouth. Unfortunately, it has made me not want to be involved in any of Don's get togethers in the future. Why would I ever commit to one again knowing how he will simply change venues without consideration of others.
I will however be hosting my own events which will be based not only around listening to cars and the after effects of all the hard work we put into our cars, but elevating the fabrication, installation and calibration skills of those who attend. I'll keep you all posted, it should be really fun!

Still though, have fun this weekend you guys and don't let any of this **** get in the way of that!


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## dodgerblue (Jul 14, 2005)

Dudes ! 

Just wanted to mention we are Hella fortunate to have this mix of Talented 
Professionals ,Business owners, Enthusiasts and Hyper Enthusiasts that are 
Donating their own time and resources creating these get-togethers for the social and educational aspect of it .

Its no small feat coordinating any size of gathering on your own time. Managing expectations and sorting all the little things can be a pita in itself .


Most Importantly ...
We have a great group of -People- here !


Thank you All for the Time/Effort for these meets to take place .


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

For those attending the Meet on Saturday, we will again distribute a compilation CD for demo purposes. This CD contains both outstanding music and recordings, all from my personal collection, and will definitely reveal the strengths and weaknesses of any system. Here is the artwork, with the track listings, courtesy of ISTundra:










Much thanks Todd.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

Buzzman said:


> For those attending the Meet on Saturday, we will again distribute a compilation CD for demo purposes. This CD contains both outstanding music and recordings, all from my personal collection, and will definitely reveal the strengths and weaknesses of any system. Here is the artwork, with the track listings, courtesy of ISTundra:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm...not sure I want to reveal the weaknesses of my system...it just leads to spending more money 

Thanks Todd & Don for putting the time into the CD.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

Guys, I need to start planning how much food is going to be needed, so I'm requesting a head count of attendees. Please chime in or PM if you plan to attend and how many in your party if more than yourself. Thanks


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

Offroader5 said:


> Hmm...not sure I want to reveal the weaknesses of my system...it just leads to spending more money


:laugh: But that's why we are addicted to this hobby. 



Offroader5 said:


> Thanks Todd & Don for putting the time into the CD.


You are welcome! It was a labor of love, and the real pleasure comes from introducing you guys to music you might not be familiar with and seeing the expressions on your faces as you listen.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

ISTundra said:


> Guys, I need to start planning how much food is going to be needed, so I'm requesting a head count of attendees. Please chime in or PM if you plan to attend and how many in your party if more than yourself. Thanks


I'm in...just me.


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

im still in, just me.... i just moved to az, so i don't have any friends to bring, yet. and being that i just moved, i have little to no fundage, but if there's something i can contribute (plastic cups, etc) let me know!


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

i'm a maybe. i'll bring my own food if there's not enough. lol 

seriously hoping to make it out still.


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

Dear friends,

Now I'm curious! I wonder what this CD sounds like in the Magic Bus? I hope you're curious, too! Perhaps Patrick Bateman's complimentary remarks about the Magic Bus after he heard it at this year's CES will spark your interest ...

_Absolutely, positively the best bass I've ever heard in a car._

_The noise floor in the system is as low as it gets. It sounds like you're listening to a stereo in a bank vault. No electrical noise, and the isolation from the rest of the world is remarkable._

_… the Magic Bus isn't about bass, or soundstaging, or tonality. It's about EVERYTHING. So there are certainly car systems which will get louder, but I've never heard one that was as pitch-perfect in the bass. And there are systems with 'stealthier' installs, but none that can image like this._

_It's made me think about what's important in audio reproduction._

_… definitely a system for the most discerning listener._

Buzzman, the host of our event, had this to say about the Magic Bus ...

_The Bus, in my opinion, offers as ideal a mobile listening environment as can be achieved, and it’s that environment (basically an almost acoustically perfect room on wheels) that contributes to much of what we hear, and don’t hear, when listening to music on the Bus._

I believe Buzzman knows a good car when he hears one - his PHASS-equipped Mercedes is one of the best sounding cars I've ever heard. 

Check out this video press coverage fresh off the press from CES:

Title: "The Magic Bus, Jon Whitledge, Larry Mitchell, Alan Childs"
Duration: 5'36"
Link:The Magic Bus, John Whitledge, Larry Mitchell, Alan Childs - YouTube

Here are some additional videos you might enjoy ...

Title: "ANT Listens to the Magic Bus"
Duration: 4'54"
Link: ANT listens to Magic Bus.MOV - YouTube

Title: "Earl Zausmer Listens to the Magic Bus"
Duration: 1'22"
Link: Earl Zausmer listens to the Magic Bus - YouTube

Title: "Dan Brooks and Alan Clark Listen to the Magic Bus"
Duration: 4'49"
Link: Magic Bus Listening Experience - YouTube

Title: "Larry Mitchell Rocks the Magic Bus at CES"
Duration: 1'17"
Link: Larry Mitchell rocks the Magic Bus - YouTube

Title: "Larry Mitchell and the Magic Bus Make Mobile Audio History at CES"
Duration: 1'32"
Link: Larry Mitchell.mov - YouTube

Title: "Brian Levy Listens to the Magic Bus"
Duration: 1'08"
Link: Brian Levy listens to Magic Bus.MOV - YouTube

Title: "Gbera Listens to the Magic Bus"
Duration: 2'29"
Link: gbera listens to magic bus.MOV - YouTube

Jeaneth and I hope to see all of you in Scottsdale!

Jon Whitledge
Whitledge Designs
www.whitledgedesigns.com


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

jon w. said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> Now I'm curious! I wonder what this CD sounds like in the Magic Bus? I hope you're curious, too! Perhaps Patrick Bateman's complimentary remarks about the Magic Bus after he heard it at this year's CES will spark your interest ...
> 
> ...


Another commercial.......:mean:
John, enough with the P.T. Barnum stuff.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

dear PPI-ART COLLECTOR,

as a moderator, i find it rather inappropriate that you cannot adhere to the rules of your own forum ...

*Rule #1. While discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or inflammatory posts. *

You dig?


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

jon w. said:


> dear PPI-ART COLLECTOR,
> 
> as a moderator, i find it rather inappropriate that you cannot adhere to the rules of your own forum ...
> 
> ...


First off Jon, this is not my forum.
Hijacking other DIYMA member's threads for your own personal gain and exploitation is rude, and this is not the first time you've done it.
All I did is finally call you out on it.
Got a problem with it?
Take it up with Ant.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> First off Jon, this is not my forum.
> Hijacking other DIYMA member's threads for your own personal gain and exploitation is rude, and this is not the first time you've done it.
> All I did is finally call you out on it.
> Got a problem with it?
> ...


Bret - With all do respect Jon has driven to the last two events here and is coming again. He is not trying to sell us anything. He does not charge us to hear the bus. Infact I would have to guess that it costs him quite a bit of money to drive out to visit with us. 

If you have an issue with him being in OUR thread please see your way to Ant.


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> . . . Hijacking other DIYMA member's threads for your own personal gain and exploitation is rude, and this is not the first time you've done it.


Well, this technically isn't "my" thread since it was started by ISTundra. But, since he and I are coordinating these festivities, I feel obligated to respond to your statement. Considering that Jon AND his wife are taking time off from work and driving almost 400 miles to display the Magic Bus at our event, which makes our event significantly more appealing, he can "promote" the Bus as much as he pleases. He isn't "hijacking" this thread. He is a part of this thread by reason of his commitment to the event and the friendships he has made here from previous appearances. If one person who hears the Bus gets inspired to commit their time and money to building a SQ worthy vehicle or to further improve on what they have accomplished thus far, then Jon's "promotion" was worth it. You might have your issues with Jon, but in this case you are way off base. And, by interjecting your opinion in this thread on a subject unrelated to the thread itself, rather than doing so privately, aren't you doing exactly what you accuse Jon of doing?


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

dude, everybody just shut up already!!! GOD, is it really that important? i half expect a cat-fight to break out at the meet, provided people still want to show up. this is my first az meet and already i feel like i have to walk on eggshells to appease the gods. i just wanna hang out, listen to some cars, get some feedback and chill out!


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

brett said:


> dude, everybody just shut up already!!! GOD, is it really that important? i half expect a cat-fight to break out at the meet, provided people still want to show up. this is my first az meet and already i feel like i have to walk on eggshells to appease the gods. i just wanna hang out, listen to some cars, get some feedback and chill out!


no need to walk on eggshells. we are freindly in person. this whole thing just got out of hand and you know is hard to slow down a train.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Buzzman said:


> Well, this technically isn't "my" thread since it was started by ISTundra. But, since he and I are coordinating these festivities, I feel obligated to respond to your statement. Considering that Jon AND his wife are taking time off from work and driving almost 400 miles to display the Magic Bus at our event, which makes our event significantly more appealing, he can "promote" the Bus as much as he pleases. He isn't "hijacking" this thread. He is a part of this thread by reason of his commitment to the event and the friendships he has made here from previous appearances. If one person who hears the Bus gets inspired to commit their time and money to building a SQ worthy vehicle or to further improve on what they have accomplished thus far, then Jon's "promotion" was worth it. You might have your issues with Jon, but in this case you are way off base. And, by interjecting your opinion in this thread on a subject unrelated to the thread itself, rather than doing so privately, aren't you doing exactly what you accuse Jon of doing?


Buzzman,
Thank you for your opinion regarding Jon and his "unique" way of promotion.
The OP is ISTundra's so if he's ok with it as you are then all is right in the world again for this thread.
Sorry that it had to happen in this thread.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

Will there be a ring or cage to reconcile the differences ?

Man - my new tweeters sound sweet! Sorry, "that's really off topic"


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## badfish (Dec 9, 2011)

You never know who will sneak across the border in the middle of the night


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

badfish said:


> You never know who will sneak across the border in the middle of the night


You going John?
Damn, now I wish I could be there.
I missed out on audtioning your awesome 4Runner last Saturday. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

xxx_busa said:


> Man - my new tweeters sound sweet! Sorry, "that's really off topic"


nice. I have such a steep windshield, I have to use 2 pairs in series to get a nice tweeter sound and high stage image


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

I'm in for the CD


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## badfish (Dec 9, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> You going John?
> Damn, now I wish I could be there.
> I missed out on audtioning your awesome 4Runner last Saturday.
> 
> ...


Looks like it. Went to the one in November had a blast. I'll be going up north a few more times this year. We'll get you in it.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm planning a couple of Jimmy John's sub platters, chips, and water for lunch. My wife would love to fatten you all up with some homemade cookies as well.. 

If anyone would like to bring anything else, please do so. A fruit bowl would be nice, and maybe some soda's and maybe something light for people to snack on through the day. I will bring a couple of coolers with ice. Paper plates, plastic cutlery, and napkins are needed. Also hand sanitizer/wipes so we don't have to finger each other's gear with grubby hands.


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

ISTundra said:


> I'm planning a couple of Jimmy John's sub platters, chips, and water for lunch. My wife would love to fatten you all up with some homemade cookies as well..
> 
> If anyone would like to bring anything else, please do so. A fruit bowl would be nice, and maybe some soda's and maybe something light for people to snack on through the day. I will bring a couple of coolers with ice. Paper plates, plastic cutlery, and napkins are needed. Also hand sanitizer/wipes so we don't have to finger each other's gear with grubby hands.


love me some jimmy johns! i was stoked to see they had those out here. used to eat them all the time back in illinois, but l.a. was devoid of them.

i will do my best to get a bunch of plastic/paper-ery items


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

ISTundra said:


> I'm planning a couple of Jimmy John's sub platters, chips, and water for lunch. My wife would love to fatten you all up with some homemade cookies as well..
> 
> If anyone would like to bring anything else, please do so. A fruit bowl would be nice, and maybe some soda's and maybe something light for people to snack on through the day. I will bring a couple of coolers with ice. Paper plates, plastic cutlery, and napkins are needed. Also hand sanitizer/wipes so we don't have to finger each other's gear with grubby hands.


The wife and I can make some salsa and bring corn chips.


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

Im thinking I may show up - So Far its, YES


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

xxx_busa said:


> Im thinking I may show up - So Far its, YES





jtaudioacc said:


> I'm in for the CD





badfish said:


> Looks like it. Went to the one in November had a blast. . . .


Hey, it looks like the So. Cal. crew will have a strong representation! Awesome, and thanks guys for making the haul and showing your support. It will be great to see you all as always and we will do our best to make your trip worthwhile. Mark, I am looking forward to seeing and hearing your new set-up. 

Incredibly, we have SNOW on the ground here in Scottsdale! Here is the view outside my house:










Fortunately, the weather for Saturday is forecasted to be much better.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Very cool Don. The hail right now is making it look similar to that over her in Mesa. It would be ok if it snows Saturday but NO NO to the rain.


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## Godsmack (Mar 5, 2012)

We've got about 3" down here in Sierra Vista/Fort Huachuca and a TON more on the mountains.



J


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

Godsmack said:


> We've got about 3" down here in Sierra Vista/Fort Huachuca and a TON more on the mountains. J


Geez! I expect it in the mountains, but it's creeping too close for my liking. That's why I left the East Coast. :laugh: So, are you coming up this way on Saturday?



07azhhr said:


> Very cool Don. The hail right now is making it look similar to that over her in Mesa. It would be ok if it snows Saturday but NO NO to the rain.


Well, fortunately it’s projected to be mostly sunny and in the ‘60s. So, it will be a glorious day for a car audio gathering.


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## Offroader5 (Apr 8, 2011)

My back yard about 30 minutes ago:


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## Godsmack (Mar 5, 2012)

Buzzman said:


> Geez! I expect it in the mountains, but it's creeping too close for my liking. That's why I left the East Coast. :laugh: So, are you coming up this way on Saturday?



I am not certain yet. Prolly won't know till Friday. I'll prolly just drive the Tundra up and meet everyone. 


Trying to find another vehicle to do an install in. Hopefully the bird sells to help that happen.



J


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## Godsmack (Mar 5, 2012)

Offroader5 said:


> My back yard about 30 minutes ago:


I dig the van!!!!!



J


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

I'll hopefully get out there early enough to go to the NHRA pro qualifying if anyone want to come and check that out. I'll be sure to use good ear plugs so i'll have my hearing on saturday.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Don - Would you be willing to give some insight on what to look for with the songs on this disc? I have only ever heard one song on that list. In listening to the ones that I could find I have zero idea what to look for in them that would tell me if things are good or bad in my system.


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

07azhhr said:


> Don - Would you be willing to give some insight on what to look for with the songs on this disc? I have only ever heard one song on that list. In listening to the ones that I could find I have zero idea what to look for in them that would tell me if things are good or bad in my system.


Robert, I would be happy to do so. I am sure most people will not be familiar with most of these tracks. I will try to put together a printed "primer" on these tracks that will be helpful as you listen.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Buzzman said:


> Robert, I would be happy to do so. I am sure most people will not be familiar with most of these tracks. I will try to put together a printed "primer" on these tracks that will be helpful as you listen.


Thank you Don.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Picked up some 2 liters today to bring to the gtg. Coke, Pepsi, Fanta orange, and Sprite.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

So what are the final details? 4:00 PM @ HCCA?


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

OK Guys, this is the deal. To be clear, the Meet will be at the property of JSC Motorcars / Epic Audio Solutions, 7863 E. McClain Drive, Scottsdale 85260. Here is a link to the location on a map: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl The Meet will officially start at Noon, and we will stay until it's no longer reasonable.  Many thanks to Joey at JSC Motorcars and Rich of Epic for allowing this all to happen.

Beginning around 2:30, we will hold the panel discussion which will last no more than 90 minutes, so we can all get back to listening to cars. The confirmed panelists are Jon Whitledge, Earl Zausmer, Doug Dobson of Elettromedia, Larry Frederick of Diamond Audio / Cerwin Vega Mobile, and ANT, our venerable DIYMA leader. There may be other last minute participants. I will be the moderator, and the discussion will be recorded and then posted on DIYMA. The panel will address the following issues:

•	What constitutes an SQ worthy vehicle? 
•	What should one's goals and priorities be when building a SQ worthy vehicle?
•	Are manufacturers still interested in developing products intended for the ultimate in music reproduction?
•	Can an economic case be made in today's market for such products?
•	Can your local retailer/installer still support SQ and at the same time have a financially successful business? 
•	Is the Internet friend or foe for the local audio retailer/installer wishing to support SQ?
•	New product developments in the SQ market. 

Hopefully, we will be able to cover all of these topics. If not, and if the feedback on this panel discussion is positive, we will carry over to our next Meet whatever we don't find time to cover tomorrow. So I can whet your appetite, this is what I would like to cover at the next Meet:

•	The challenges presented by the mobile environment and new car designs - how can they be overcome.
•	Tuning Your System – The Do’s and Don’ts
•	A tuning tutorial – gain setting, crossover frequency and slope selection, time alignment, RTA measurement, etc. 

I also have a special request. We may need a few more folding chairs, so if you have one or more at home, and can bring it/them to the Meet we would be most grateful. See you all tomorrow, and thanks for your support.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Buzzman said:


> OK Guys, this is the deal. To be clear, the Meet will be at the property of JSC Motorcars / Epic Audio Solutions, 7863 E. McClain Drive, Scottsdale 85260. Here is a link to the location on a map: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl The Meet will officially start at Noon, and we will stay until it's no longer reasonable.  Many thanks to Joey at JSC Motorcars and Rich of Epic for allowing this all to happen.
> 
> Beginning around 2:30, we will hold the panel discussion which will last no more than 90 minutes, so we can all get back to listening to cars. The confirmed panelists are Jon Whitledge, Earl Zausmer, Doug Dobson of Elettromedia, Larry Frederick of Diamond Audio / Cerwin Vega Mobile, and ANT, our venerable DIYMA leader. There may be other last minute participants. I will be the moderator, and the discussion will be recorded and then posted on DIYMA. The panel will address the following issues:
> 
> ...


That's going to be a really awesome GTG!
Thanks for taking the time to record and post the panel discussion for us that can't attend.
Here's hoping you all have a great time and build some new friendships. :thumbsup:


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> That's going to be a really awesome GTG!
> Thanks for taking the time to record and post the panel discussion for us that can't attend.
> Here's hoping you all have a great time and build some new friendships. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Bret, thanks man! We are keeping our fingers crossed that all goes as planned so all the good wishes we receive will help our cause.  Nice weather, nice people, great sounding cars. What more can a car audio addict want right? Hopefully, the panel discussion spurs some enlightening and spirited debate.

On another note, for those attending, you might want to bring a folding chair to sit on during the discussion.

And, ANT has informed me that he will be bringing some "goodies" for raffles so a lot of folks will go home with some new stuff. Thanks ANT!!


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Don,
I think it's cool you guys are doing a roundtable. It sounds kind of corny, but I totally dig it man. 

The fact you are recording it and posting it is really cool. I had always wanted to do something like this at one of my GTG's but I haven't had one in nearly two years. I definitely look forward to seeing it. 

Here's to hoping for good weather and great times.

-Erin


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> Don,
> I think it's cool you guys are doing a roundtable. It sounds kind of corny, but I totally dig it man.
> 
> The fact you are recording it and posting it is really cool. I had always wanted to do something like this at one of my GTG's but I haven't had one in nearly two years. I definitely look forward to seeing it.
> ...


Erin, thanks to you too bro. Interestingly, the panelists might be more excited about doing this than anyone. A couple of high profile guys who wanted to participate but were outside the country even offered to try and do it by video conference.  But, that proved to be more of a challenge.


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

What a great time today!
Don, thanks for putting it together. It is awesome that you are so enthusiastic about these events.
Jon, thank you and your lovely wife for making the drive (again!). I was just telling my girlfriend Kathy, that she has to stop by the next one to meet your wife and to audition your Magic Bus..
Earl, Todd, Larry and Doug, (and Jon again) thank you for your contribution on the panel discussion. Having you guys there to represent your specific areas of our industry was awesome and well needed.

Todd, thank you for the food, and please thank your wife for the cookies. They were awesome!

Brett. Welcome to AZ. I hope to see you at more of these functions!

David. Welcome BACK to the world of SQ and good luck with your upcoming Bronco II build. I am sure it will be awesome!

To the three; call me on early next week and I'll get you taken care of.

JT & john.. Thanks for coming out from CA. It is always great to see you both!

Larry.. Blow me.

Everyone else, thank you for coming out and supporting our industry and our community.
I am really looking forward to the next one!


ANT


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

DIYMA said:


> What a great time today!
> Don, thanks for putting it together. It is awesome that you are so enthusiastic about these events.
> Jon, thank you and your lovely wife for making the drive (again!). I was just telling my girlfriend Kathy, that she has to stop by the next one to meet your wife and to audition your Magic Bus..
> Earl, Todd, Larry and Doug, (and Jon again) thank you for your contribution on the panel discussion. Having you guys there to represent your specific areas of our industry was awesome and well needed.
> ...


Pics pleazz! 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

DIYMA said:


> Larry.. Blow me.
> 
> ANT


:laugh::laugh:

had a great time, as usual. Todd, i'm sorry I forgot to thank you for the great food! cookies! 

also, had another great trip to AZ...drag races, go karts, and car audio! oh, and another Ronda 1st round arm bar!

sleep soon, then drive back tomorrow sometime.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

funkin audio beyotch










Jon W., Ant, Doug D., Todd Ramsey, Sein... I mean, Earl Z, Larry F., Buzzman


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)




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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

Today's gathering was terrific. Thanks to everyone for coming out and showing your support, even if that meant driving 6 hours from So. Cal. late at night. And thanks to ISTundra for his hard work in helping pull today's event off successfully, thanks to ANT for his generosity in providing raffle items, and thanks again to JSC Motorsports and Epic Audio Solutions for being such gracious and terrific hosts. The next Meet is already being planned and some folks have offered ideas for consideration.  Here are some more pics from today:

*The Panel*: (Left to Right) Jon Whitledge, ANT, Doug Dobson (Elettromedia), Todd Ramsey (Ramsey Consulting), Earl Zausmer and Larry Frederick (Diamond Audio / Cerwin Vega Mobile). Not pictured, but participating via Face Time from Hawaii, was Steve McCormack, the home audio legend. 










*Raffling off some of ANT's goodies:*










*A Shot Of The Crowd:*


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Looks like a great time, wish I was there.

I look forward to hearing more about the stories, seeing photos, and hearing that panel discussion!


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Looking forward to the round table thingamabob.

Any pictures of the cars?

Out of pure curiosity, does Earl still bother with car audio? Kinda curious if he just rocks stock now or if he showed up with an aftermarket setup.


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

!!!!
I totally forgot to thank Steve McCormack for skyping in all the way from his vacation in Maui!
It was awesome to have such great support.

ANT


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> Looking forward to the round table thingamabob.
> 
> Any pictures of the cars?
> 
> Out of pure curiosity, does Earl still bother with car audio? Kinda curious if he just rocks stock now or if he showed up with an aftermarket setup.


Erin, Jon W. is working on finalizing the video of the discussion so it can be posted for others to view. We will announce when it is up on the site. I don't know if anyone took pictures of the various car set-ups, though. We might have overlooked that.  But, I am sure that if someone took such pics they will get posted.

Earl is just rocking the stock system in his Lexus, which he feels to be pretty good out of the box. But, he has become a real headphone advocate, as you will hear in the video of the discussion, and wears his custom headphones just about all the time when listening to music in his car or at home.


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## MasterMod (Jul 14, 2011)

Hey guys...I know I'm a little behind on this, but thank you to all who came out! It was a great time while I was there!


And I know that many of you won't actually believe this, as I'm usually the only guy at these meets who demos SPL usually, but my entire system is being torn out and replaced over the next few months.....................I am ready to take the plunge into the dark side of audio known as SQ (after all, they did have cookies for us ).

Now the next question is...is there anyone from the meet that would be willing to let me use an RTA for a couple hours? I'm going to need to do my car once I get the new speakers in, and I'm also interested in seeing just how bad my current setup is lol. PM me if you would be willing to help me out!


Larry


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Any updates on the panel discussion? I (and I'm sure others) am looking forward to hearing it!


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

Jazzi said:


> Any updates on the panel discussion? I (and I'm sure others) am looking forward to hearing it!


It's almost ready to be posted. Jon W. is putting the finishing touches on it.


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

dear diyma friends,

i'm please to share with you that the round table discussion video is completed. 

i'm thrilled we were able to assemble such a distinguished panel of experts who dedicate themselves to serving the mobile audio industry! 

i'd also like to thank Don "Buzzman" Gibson and Todd "ISTundra" Best for organizing the event and JSC Motorcars and Epic Audio Solutions for being such great co-hosts! 

finally, i'd like to thank all of those who attended and supported the get-together. dedicated enthusiasts like you will surely help the industry grow!

Sound Quality Round Table No. 1 - YouTube

warmest regards,
jon whitledge
whitledge designs


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

I really enjoyed the back and forth.
Too bad the video dropped out as I would have liked to have seen Earl's custom headphones. 

I would love to see on the next GTG panel someone from Rockford Fosgate since they are the last of the titans still present in Tempe, AZ. 
RF's perspective on the current market vs. say the 70s. '80s, and '90s would be fascinating since they've been there since the beginning.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

i would like ANT or the moderators make this video a "sticky", because of its significance to the mobile audio industry.


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## Buzzman (Jul 26, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I really enjoyed the back and forth.
> Too bad the video dropped out as I would have liked to have seen Earl's custom headphones.
> 
> I would love to see on the next GTG panel someone from Rockford Fosgate since they are the last of the titans still present in Tempe, AZ.
> ...


Bret, we are glad you enjoyed the discussion. Yeah, we ran out of tape, and those guys would have kept going for another hour if we wanted.  Earl's custom headphones are really a piece of art. I will see if he can send me a photo for posting.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

jon w. said:


> i would like ANT or the moderators make this video a "sticky", because of its significance to the mobile audio industry.


Jon,
Start a new thread that's specific to the video and I will sticky it.
That way, any future panel discussions can get added to that same thread.

PM me a link to the thread once it's done and I'll get her stickied.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## ANT (Oct 15, 2005)

My God do I sound like a bumbling fool..
uhg...


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