# Best Infinite Baffle Sub



## joelb (Dec 25, 2008)

Looking for recommendations for the best overall sounding SQL IB 12" Subs for my 2015 Honda Civic with 12.5 Cubic Ft. AirSpace.

I have 300 RMS at 2ohms on my Xtant X603 Amp for two subs.

Cost Too Much: $300+ per sub
AE SBP 12"
Flatlyne 12"
FI Audio 12"

Any other suggestions?

Thanks


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

There are some Pyle's that should do the trick for cheap, I don't know the exact model, but a search on this site should tell you what you need.

A single 12" may leave you wanting more output if "SQL" is your goal, a pair would do much better. If you can fit 2, I would encourage you do use as much displacement as you can.


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## dsquared (Aug 10, 2016)

I knew you were gonna say that . Lol
What’s your experience with these?
You had the AE 15s if I recall no?


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## joelb (Dec 25, 2008)

gijoe said:


> There are some Pyle's that should do the trick for cheap, I don't know the exact model, but a search on this site should tell you what you need.
> 
> A single 12" may leave you wanting more output if "SQL" is your goal, a pair would do much better. If you can fit 2, I would encourage you do use as much displacement as you can.


I am not ready to put Pyles into my car. I would really like (2) 12s with great SQL. My Eclipse Aluminums were just too overkill and I have sold them.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Your gonna want more than 1 12. Years ago I had 2 12s on about 175 watts a piece and they were pretty loud and supper accurate. However, 2 15s on the same power did make a difference.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

dsquared said:


> I knew you were gonna say that . Lol
> What’s your experience with these?
> You had the AE 15s if I recall no?


I had the AE SBP 15's, and they were excellent! 

I still think sub bass is the easiest bandwidth to reproduce well, so if the Pyles aren't an option, there are a ton of choices that would do well. High excursion and high VAS are ideal.


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## dsquared (Aug 10, 2016)

OP.. what’s your budget?


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

joelb said:


> I am not ready to put Pyles into my car. I would really like (2) 12s with great SQL.


What does that even mean? It's contradictory. Seemingly due to your lack of knowledge. There is a thread (more than one) that talks about the Pyle's being the perfect IB sub. Guys are using them in their HT wall/ceiling IB setups as well. 


Many guys have been very happy with them. I personally am running 3 10's IB on about 600w and it's pretty good.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Does the geometry of your vehicle limit the driver size to 12"?

Many, including me, use a single 15" which reduces cost and depending on sd & xmax can hang with two 12s.

If you need 12s - I've read a few have good results with CV Vega drivers: https://cerwinvegamobile.com/products/cerwin-vega-mobile/122dv2/


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Also the Dayton HFs: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rss315hf-4-12-reference-hf-subwoofer-4-ohm--295-464


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Image Dynamics ID12


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Angrywhopper said:


> Image Dynamics ID12


IDK, I found with the ID line - excursion is on the low side compared to others 

But I have also never heard IDs IB so just going off the numbers.

*EDIT: Nevermind - I see the new versions have respectable xmax*


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

The Dayton Audio Ultimax UM12-22 12" might be worth consideration. It's currently on sale for $175. Otherwise, my preference would be the AE 15".

Edit: Actually $165 shipped after coupon code "Q4CJ10"


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## joelb (Dec 25, 2008)

Theslaking said:


> What does that even mean? It's contradictory. Seemingly due to your lack of knowledge. There is a thread (more than one) that talks about the Pyle's being the perfect IB sub. Guys are using them in their HT wall/ceiling IB setups as well.
> 
> 
> Many guys have been very happy with them. I personally am running 3 10's IB on about 600w and it's pretty good.


I guess I am just trying to get past the "Pyle" name. I have heard many people say they were good, but I guess its just the stereotyping in my head. So can you tell me which version of the Pyle Blue Wave you are using? I can see there are a few versions out there and I certainly do not want to go with the newest version if its different than the previous version. 

Thanks Man


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

I think you are saying that AE is out of your budget ? 
Because for IB I would recommend AE IB12AU every time. 

Although you can really run a lot of subs IB - From my research a lot of subs can be successfully run IB - look for higher Qts (> 0.6 as a suggestion) and lower Fs will work best, as will drivers with more xmax. Higher VAS is a component of most IB subs as well ( I believe a higher VAS allows for a lower FS).

I was running a 15" Type-R Alpine sub true IB (vented to the outside) and it sounded good and that sub is designed for small sealed boxes or small vented boxes. Now, it did sound better and have more authority once I got it in a box, but just an example of a sub that no one would call IB oriented and it sounded (and measured) just fine.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Ive run the fi ib3s. They sound good.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

Anybody venture out and use those JL Marine IB Subs? Like the M12IB6 ?

Manville (msmith) has mentioned several times that they perform great as IB car subs.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

They are really expensive though right?


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## evo9 (Jul 6, 2005)

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108KAPPA12/Infinity-Kappa-1200W.html


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## Bnlcmbcar (Aug 23, 2016)

dcfis said:


> They are really expensive though right?



Yea that has held me back from trying them too.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Anybody venture out and use those JL Marine IB Subs? Like the M12IB6 ?
> 
> Manville (msmith) has mentioned several times that they perform great as IB car subs.


I have heard a few reviews of these. For the people that have used them as Ib in a car give them very good reviews. I would love to hear maybe an A/B review as I wonder if you start getting diminishing returns at their price point. The 12" is basically an 800 dollar sub. I would have to hear, but the question for me is the performance better in an 800 Ib sub vs. 150 dollar Ib sub


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## brainbot1 (Feb 19, 2016)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Ive run the fi ib3s. They sound good.
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


I'm thinking about running 2 of the 12s in my girls BMW coupe since I can't fit the 15's without major modification. Can you elaborate a little on your experience? did you use a high pass? according to Winisd a high pass isnt necessary with 34mm Xmax but traditional IB wisdom says to use one. Did you run them at full power? Seems like they can take a little more than the recommended 600W. According to Winisd, they are able to almost accomplish ported low frequency extension with sealed group delay, aka best of both worlds. I've heard mixed opinions on this but did you try to really separate the front from the back wave? Based off all the subs i've modeled, these model the best.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

brainbot1 said:


> I'm thinking about running 2 of the 12s in my girls BMW coupe since I can't fit the 15's without major modification. Can you elaborate a little on your experience? did you use a high pass? according to Winisd a high pass isnt necessary with 34mm Xmax but traditional IB wisdom says to use one. Did you run them at full power? Seems like they can take a little more than the recommended 600W. According to Winisd, they are able to almost accomplish ported low frequency extension with sealed group delay, aka best of both worlds. I've heard mixed opinions on this but did you try to really separate the front from the back wave? Based off all the subs i've modeled, these model the best.


https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_tid=390594&share_fid=10112&share_type=t

All your answers 

Tl;dr. You can put around 1k per on them before they get smelly. Never had to touch a ssf(hpf) even slightly. They sound pretty good.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Bnlcmbcar said:


> Anybody venture out and use those JL Marine IB Subs? Like the M12IB6 ?
> 
> Manville (msmith) has mentioned several times that they perform great as IB car subs.


We put one in the back deck of a customer’s Mercedes several years ago. It was extremely impressive. It was also very expensive, yes. But, ultimately, that was for the customer to decide, and he was very happy with both the performance and the price.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

evo9 said:


> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108KAPPA12/Infinity-Kappa-1200W.html


I'm actually considering a pair of these IB for my wife's car to help keep the budget in check.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

rton20s said:


> evo9 said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108KAPPA12/Infinity-Kappa-1200W.html
> ...


Any reason why these are a better choice than the Dayton Ultimax 12”s for $25 less? I’m just curious since the Ultimax has a suitable QTS, more excursion, and is cheaper.


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

I had a similar question a few months ago. Those that I trust pretty much agreed that AE is always a solid choice, and rarely a compromise. I ended up getting the AE's.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

AE makes some killer drivers. I’m sure you weren’t disappointed.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

If you don't like ae then it's because you like/are used to higher distortion woofer sound, like most all car subs are.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I absolutely love my single AE IB15AU. It is extremely efficient and detailed. I had never heard this kind of sub-bass detail before. I was scoring in the 8-8.5 range and would always get a "NICE!" or "Very Nice" comment in the "low frequency" tonality category at every competition I entered this past season.

With only 160w it provides the efficient detailed output I need at normal listening sq levels... AND when cranked up with the right music will jar the entire frame of the car and make my steering wheel shake in my hands but still sound clean and composed.

Made in the USA and at a very reasonable cost - I really don't see any good reason to look elsewhere for an IB solution.

Edit: I had posted Winisd screenshots of a bunch of drivers I was considering before deciding on the AE. Look how efficient the IB15AU is compared to the others: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/5281890-post17.html


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

GreatLaBroski said:


> Any reason why these are a better choice than the Dayton Ultimax 12”s for $25 less? I’m just curious since the Ultimax has a suitable QTS, more excursion, and is cheaper.


There are a few factors, but most of it has to do with her specific install. Power will be limited to 240W @ 4 Ohms per subwoofer. The higher efficiency and lower inductance on the Infinity have me leaning a bit more toward it rather than the Dayton. Plus, aesthetics for the wife. (Not that the Ultimax is a bad looking driver.) With limited power and a subsonic filter, I would never come close to using the Dayton's excursion and the Infinity should actually be louder. 

And while MAP on the Kappa appears to be $199, they can be had for quite a bit less. Pricing fluctuates, but you can currently pick them up for $125 each. If I were paying $199 for the Kappas, I would be hard pressed not to pay the extra for a pair of AE IB12AUs.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Thanks I was just genuinely curious, lots of reasons that make sense.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

GreatLaBroski said:


> Thanks I was just genuinely curious, lots of reasons that make sense.


I didn't assume otherwise. 

For most other people, there are likely better options. But at $125, they look like quite a good deal.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

rton20s said:


> There are a few factors, but most of it has to do with her specific install. Power will be limited to 240W @ 4 Ohms per subwoofer. The higher efficiency and lower inductance on the Infinity have me leaning a bit more toward it rather than the Dayton. *Plus, aesthetics for the wife. (Not that the Ultimax is a bad looking driver.*) With limited power and a subsonic filter, I would never come close to using the Dayton's excursion and the Infinity should actually be louder.
> 
> And while MAP on the Kappa appears to be $199, they can be had for quite a bit less. Pricing fluctuates, but you can currently pick them up for $125 each. If I were paying $199 for the Kappas, I would be hard pressed not to pay the extra for a pair of AE IB12AUs.


Those infinity subs do look pretty slick. In an IB install where the basket/rear of the speaker is visible, looks would definitely factor into my decision.

I’d still probably get the AE’s though


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Chris12 said:


> Those infinity subs do look pretty slick. In an IB install where the basket/rear of the speaker is visible, looks would definitely factor into my decision.
> 
> I’d still probably get the AE’s though


If budget allows... I would, too. Every time.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I ran pair of pyle 15s into my back seat for many years, they will still shake the roof and sound great on 500rms. I very rarely dialed them up to max power it was too much, and that with 4x125 on highs. I'm very sad because I have a new car and that one is sitting out back as a spare at the moment....until I figure out what to do with it. Those were heavy paper cone subs they don't make any more, back then $40 each I think. Wish I would have bought more of them, however I think pyle still makes a paper sub that is similar. I prefer the heavy paper cone it tunes low fs 20hz, qts .7 I think they were. Lots of 30hz, they were awesome. Even at higher listening level they hardly moved, so while they don't have a massive xmax I just didn't need that much anyway. If you want super loud you will need better subs than this, just saying these do a lot and I don't need more. If I went with a single I would get a better sub to keep the output close. I tried 800rms on them and they would start to tighten up at max volumes and lose the lowest bass, but the output was more than I would use anyway. With the alpine 500rms they sound the same right up to what the system will do clean with lots of bass output. For SQ you will never need them this loud, for some dubstep or less they were perfect. I never ran an SS filter on them, they are completely hidden as are all the speakers. I tried a 350rms alpine on them and even that was perfectly livable.

The big reason they worked so well is because I had a pair of 15s which was overkill, so I didn't need huge xmax and they tuned low already just like I wanted. I had boxes with 10s and 12s in that car and they could get loud but not as low, not as good SQ. These things will do it all, one of my best daily driver setups for sure. They are built much like 80s IB subs, I did test one loose and saw over 1" xmax on a sine and small 150w amp but I don't think they do that much mounted on 500 for the pair. What I mean is you should be able to find plenty of subs like that pyle or otherwise that are lower cost, and in this use will work great. I modeled these with my trunk volume and they came out just like I wanted with a great curve peaking around 30-35hz. If you need super loud or can't fit that much cone area then get a more capable sub. But a nominal sub should have good SQ at reasonable xmax or less.

Before that I ran quad infinity 12s, the old ones with the magnet on the inside of the basket I found a deal on someplace. They peaked at ~40hz in my trunk and it was not good. With a PEQ on them they worked well and tons of output on a kicker 700.5. But that baffle was huge and quads made a heavy setup, so much that the car felt different driving lol. The 15s worked much better all the way around.


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## tru tech99 (Jan 3, 2011)

I run AE 15”s


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

Check out my build thread - 2 x 18” Fi IB3 ... in a Mustang. Loving them sonfar but barely breaking in. 

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/410777-2017-mustang-gt-big-infinite-baffle-3-way.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brules (Sep 22, 2017)

I just ordered a Fi 18IB3 for a project car (Scion XB with wheel well true IB). I looked at the AE's really hard, but I only need 45hz and down in this application and wanted the ability to get STUPID (will add a second in a wedge). Will be powering it with a 400.2LX Zapco at 2 ohm (600w).

If I had needed to go up to 70hz I would have gone AE for sure, but this car has a 10db cabin gain at 50hz lol. So I am doing 45 cut off for sub and running my AD SW800s down to 55, both with a curve to attenuate the 50hz issue. SW800s will be true IB as well.

Should be fun!


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

I just placed my order for an AE SBP15. I’m pumped. I’ve never had bigger than one 10” sub, and never IB.

Spoke with John from AE yesterday and he told me that he’ll be discontinuing the IB line because they don’t sell enough of it.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

Brules said:


> I just ordered a Fi 18IB3 for a project car (Scion XB with wheel well true IB). I looked at the AE's really hard, but I only need 45hz and down in this application and wanted the ability to get STUPID (will add a second in a wedge). Will be powering it with a 400.2LX Zapco at 2 ohm (600w).
> 
> If I had needed to go up to 70hz I would have gone AE for sure, but this car has a 10db cabin gain at 50hz lol. So I am doing 45 cut off for sub and running my AD SW800s down to 55, both with a curve to attenuate the 50hz issue. SW800s will be true IB as well.
> 
> Should be fun!


Jason... that you?


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## Brules (Sep 22, 2017)

fish said:


> Jason... that you?


Jason will be doing the work on it.


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## Brules (Sep 22, 2017)

Chris12 said:


> I just placed my order for an AE SBP15. I’m pumped. I’ve never had bigger than one 10” sub, and never IB.
> 
> Spoke with John from AE yesterday and he told me that he’ll be discontinuing the IB line because they don’t sell enough of it.


Wow this really sucks to hear.........


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Brules said:


> Wow this really sucks to hear.........


Not really unless I misunderstood. The SBP line is the one DIYMA recommends for infinite baffle over the actual AE IB series of subs. So I don't see an issue for us if they discontinue the IB series of subs as long as they continue to offer the SBP line.


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## dcfis (Sep 9, 2016)

dgage said:


> Brules said:
> 
> 
> > Wow this really sucks to hear......... <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" class="inlineimg" />
> ...


Yes but being able to get a couple of ib15 or one sbp sure is a nice option


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

Chris12 said:


> I just placed my order for an AE SBP15. I’m pumped. I’ve never had bigger than one 10” sub, and never IB.
> 
> Spoke with John from AE yesterday and he told me that he’ll be discontinuing the IB line because they don’t sell enough of it.


I ran that same set-up. My original impressions were very positive, but long-term the sub had 2 problems - the sub played too "laid-back" and it didn't get loud enough and would distort at higher volume levels. Mind you, I'm an SQ guy and I do not need a heck of a lot of volume, and I'm sure a pair of them would have been great for volume, however, it was just not the type of bass I was looking for. Good luck with it, hope it works for you.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

kaigoss69 said:


> I ran that same set-up. My original impressions were very positive, but long-term the sub had 2 problems - the sub played too "laid-back" and it didn't get loud enough and would distort at higher volume levels. Mind you, I'm an SQ guy and I do not need a heck of a lot of volume, and I'm sure a pair of them would have been great for volume, however, it was just not the type of bass I was looking for. Good luck with it, hope it works for you.


Interesting.

How much power (rms) were you feeding the sub? 

Also ( just want to confirm ) it was IB right?


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

Chris12 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> How much power (rms) were you feeding the sub?
> 
> Also ( just want to confirm ) it was IB right?


I had 500 on tap, not sure I ever got close to feeding it that much. I looked back at my comments from the time and I did not like it because it was too "tame and transparent". I switched to a single IDMax15 and it was exactly what I was looking for.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

kaigoss69 said:


> I had 500 on tap, not sure I ever got close to feeding it that much. I looked back at my comments from the time and I did not like it because it was too "tame and transparent". I switched to a single IDMax15 and it was exactly what I was looking for.


Well that’s certainly disappointing to hear. I’m glad you had more success with the IDMax.

I’m sure, as long as I can get it tuned right, I’ll be happy with the SBP15. Right now I have a 125w 8” underseat sub, so it won’t be too hard to impress me


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

Chris12 said:


> Well that’s certainly disappointing to hear. I’m glad you had more success with the IDMax.
> 
> I’m sure, as long as I can get it tuned right, I’ll be happy with the SBP15. Right now I have a 125w 8” underseat sub, so it won’t be too hard to impress me


Keep in mind that is just my experience. The guy who bought it from me ended up blowing it, in the same car, probably because it did not get loud enough for him as well. Just be careful because it does not give you much warning when it is about to be overdriven. I remember watching the cone and it did move a heck of a lot even at lower volume levels. The IDMax on the other hand will get plenty loud and you can barely tell it is moving. Two very differently designed subs, and totally different sounding.


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## Brules (Sep 22, 2017)

Thus why I went Fi. Should be able to get loud easily. ? And at 45 and down I don’t need musical. Post back when you get the SPBs in! We want to hear your thoughts.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

I just looked at the specs for the IDMax - it’s about 2.5” longer and has an overall diameter that’s 5/8” larger than the 15” AE subs. Most of the other specs are notably different too. No surprise your listening experience was so much different with each of the subs.

Brules- I’ll definitely post my impressions, though they’ll probably won’t be any time soon. I probably won’t have the sub in my possession for at least a month, then I’ll need to mount it. Could be a few months before it’s up and running


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## Brules (Sep 22, 2017)

I understand. Waiting in mine to be made as well. Waiting sucks! ?


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