# Plastic door panels and deadening



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

As I lower the crossover point for my midbass, my door panels are really starting to buzz. What is the best means of deadening the plastic door panel? A layer of sound deadening mat? A layer of Spectrum Sludge? I remember seeing someone on here using the expanding foam spray stuff. 

My door panels have hooks which slide into slots in the door skin and I already have a couple of layers of mat on the door skin and a layer of Ensolite. Therefore, I really can only put one type of deadening on the door panel and still have it fit correctly. Does the Spectrum stick to plastic? 

Thanks in advance.


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## johnson (May 1, 2007)

Layer of deadening and/or ensolite.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

http://cascadeaudio.com/automotive_audio_enhancement/car_gasketing.htm

Or something along the lines of luxuryliner..


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## pontiacbird (Dec 29, 2006)

i would try stuffing the door with some cheap foam, and stuff it tight....this seems like the most cost/effective solution

i tried two layers at certain spots on my door panels, and they don't rattle too bad, but it would have been cheaper if i just used some thick foam instead of the deadening....


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## Steak (Mar 16, 2006)

I applied damplifier pro and a layer of ensolite to my plastic door panels.... now they are sturdy as a rock, and dont vibrate annoyingly. I'll post some pics when I get home...


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## ECLIPSEsqfan (Sep 2, 2007)

I was having that issue as well. Used some expanding foam on the backside and treated the door with Dynamat X.. 
Now the rattle has moved to the actual seam in the plastic of the doorcard itself :lol: I think I might just use some gasket tape for the meantime.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

I went with a third of a roll of raammat. On each doorcard.


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

The only problem with more Ensolite or foam is that it catches on the Ensolite already on the door skin and will not let me slide the door panel down. Ensolite + Ensolite = Velcro 

The door panel, like most door panels I assume, is made up of different plastic pieces held together with plastic rivets. It appears that the buzzing is coming from where the pieces connect to each other. I think I will try putting some RAAMmat since it will still allow the door to slide into place. Thanks for the suggestions.


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## ECLIPSEsqfan (Sep 2, 2007)

> the buzzing is coming from where the pieces connect to each other


Exactly what I was referring to. Try to use a small piece of foam tape to isolate the problem arteas before you go all out.


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

Ahhh....I see. Thanks!


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## Steak (Mar 16, 2006)

ECLIPSEsqfan said:


> I was having that issue as well. Used some expanding foam on the backside and treated the door with Dynamat X..
> Now the rattle has moved to the actual seam in the plastic of the doorcard itself :lol: I think I might just use some gasket tape for the meantime.


use some silicone to stop this...


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## ECLIPSEsqfan (Sep 2, 2007)

Yessiree !!  

hehe, yeah this is what I'm doing. just have to wait to finish since I'm about to get my car put in the shop for a couple days.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Steak said:


> use some silicone to stop this...


x2, and no, Spectrum and Sludge do not stick to plastic - no water based deadener (and that's all of them) will.


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> x2, and no, Spectrum and Sludge do not stick to plastic - no water based deadener (and that's all of them) will.


Thank you. Exactly what I needed to know.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

> A resonance object, whether mechanical, acoustic, or electrical, will probably have more than one resonance frequency (especially harmonics of the strongest resonance). It will be easy to vibrate at those frequencies, and more difficult to vibrate at other frequencies. *It will "pick out" its resonance frequency from a complex excitation, such as an impulse or a wideband noise excitation. In effect, it is filtering out all frequencies other than its resonance*.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance

One way to resolve the issue:


> What is Damping?
> Damping is the conversion of mechanical energy of a
> structure into thermal energy. A structure subject to
> oscillatory deformation contains a combination of kinetic
> ...


http://www.roushind.com/news_downloads/white_papers/Insight.pdf


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

VB-1x will "stick" directly to plastic, but I'm not convinced it will do an effective job other than just adding weight. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216905&postcount=41
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216241&postcount=35


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> VB-1x will "stick" directly to plastic, but I'm not convinced it will do an effective job other than just adding weight.
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216905&postcount=41
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216241&postcount=35


I doubt it. They all "stick" if you leave them alone, but a little vibration or twisting of the substrate and they will pop right off. Much more reliable and effective to use mat on plastic (more effective on everything).


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

CMR22 said:


> As I lower the crossover point for my midbass, my door panels are really starting to buzz. What is the best means of deadening the plastic door panel? A layer of sound deadening mat? A layer of Spectrum Sludge? I remember seeing someone on here using the expanding foam spray stuff.
> 
> My door panels have hooks which slide into slots in the door skin and I already have a couple of layers of mat on the door skin and a layer of Ensolite. Therefore, I really can only put one type of deadening on the door panel and still have it fit correctly. Does the Spectrum stick to plastic?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


You have a Dodge or Chrysler product don't you...

Ran into the same thing. 2 layers of Ramaat later on the plastic door trim and I have reduced the buzzing and rattling but have not eliminated it.

I believe the problem stems from the fact that we have gaping holes in the inner door skin where the plastic tabs on the door panel slide into. Air escapes from the inner door cavity to the space between the inner door skin and plastic trim panel. This pressurizes this second cavity and makes things rattle like an SOB. I have not come up with a good way to seal off the area around the slide in tabs.

All those fancy plastic rivit pieces do not help in the issue either. They creak and moan like mad.

Ge0


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

Ge0 said:


> You have a Dodge or Chrysler product don't you...
> 
> Ran into the same thing. 2 layers of Ramaat later on the plastic door trim and I have reduced the buzzing and rattling but have not eliminated it.
> 
> ...



 Good call. Dodge Ram.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> I doubt it. They all "stick" if you leave them alone, but a little vibration or twisting of the substrate and they will pop right off. Much more reliable and effective to use mat on plastic (more effective on everything).


Come on Don, you're better than that. Have you tested it? I doubted it too until I actually tested it.

"Pop" right off? Maybe if you hit it with a sledgehammer. Incidentally, I have hit my plastic panels that I've applied it to, and yet it stayed. 

Totally agree with you on the reliability and effectiveness of mat on plastic. But everything??????


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> Come on Don, you're better than that. Have you tested it? I doubted it too until I actually tested it.
> 
> "Pop" right off? Maybe if you hit it with a sledgehammer. Incidentally, I have hit my plastic panels that I've applied it to, and yet it stayed.
> 
> Totally agree with you on the reliability and effectiveness of mat on plastic. But everything??????


No, I haven't "tested" Cascade's liquid this way, but I have done so with Second Skin's, Lizard Skin's and the liquid eDeads. Apply 2 mm to abs, let cure for 30 days and then twist. They all pop off. It's the nature of latex and unprimed plastic. I said I doubt it because I haven't tried it with Cascade, but I have spoken to chemists who explained that creating a reliable bond between smooth plastic and a water based liquid is a significant problem.

Why would effectiveness on plastic be any different than on anything else? A mat with a foil constraining layer is always going to be more effective than an unconstrained system. I like liquids, but you just can't beat a CLVED.

Where exactly is the identification of yourself as a Cascade rep announced in your "coming out" thread?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

CMR22 said:


> Good call. Dodge Ram.



Durango here. I'll betcha we have VERY similar door panels.

I have some pictures of stuff I have done. I'll try to post them later today.

Ge0


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

Ge0 said:


> Durango here. I'll betcha we have VERY similar door panels.
> 
> I have some pictures of stuff I have done. I'll try to post them later today.
> 
> Ge0



Thank you.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Rudeboy said:


> No, I haven't "tested" Cascade's liquid this way, but I have done so with Second Skin's, Lizard Skin's and the liquid eDeads. Apply 2 mm to abs, let cure for 30 days and then twist. They all pop off. It's the nature of latex and unprimed plastic. I said I doubt it because I haven't tried it with Cascade, but I have spoken to chemists who explained that creating a reliable bond between smooth plastic and a water based liquid is a significant problem.
> 
> Why would effectiveness on plastic be any different than on anything else? A mat with a foil constraining layer is always going to be more effective than an unconstrained system. I like liquids, but you just can't beat a CLVED.
> 
> Where exactly is the identification of yourself as a Cascade rep announced in your "coming out" thread?


That wasn't so hard, now was it?  

For the record, if you're going to put a liquid like VB-1x (no, they are not all the same!) on plastic (of many varieties) you'd want to clean it first with something like lacquer thinner and hit it with some sandpaper. If you want it to go one step further, use something like this to get a permanent bond.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233906&postcount=24
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233454&postcount=1


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## ClinesSelect (Apr 16, 2006)

CMR22 said:


> Good call.  Dodge Ram.


I had the same problems with my doors. What I found helpful was running strips of mat between the white plastic insert on the back side of the door panel where the arm rest is and the rest of the panel. There is a seam around the entire section and it is attached to the rest of the panel with the plastic rivets that you mentioned previously. 

That solved the buzz and rattles in the door panel itself. However, I was still having problems which turned out to be the door handle and lock mechanism. 

Here is what it looks like inside the door:










Yours will not have the metal plate unless you have installed a Jimmy Jammer kit, which is a really good idea since it takes about 5 seconds with a flat screwdriver to pop the locks on a Ram. 

The metal connecting rods, at least in my truck, are a big source of the rattles. Putting rubber tubing over the rods solved that problem. That photo was taken before I installed mat on the inside of the door. 

If you are still having problems, look at the plastic door handle itself. Their is a rubber gasket between the door handle and the metal door so that is not the problem. 

What does rattle/buzz however is the section of the handle that you pull on to open the door. It sounds like the door panel is vibrating when its really the door handle. To see if that is the problem, pull the handle and put a small piece of Ensolite between where the plastic meets so they do not touch and play a midbass heavy song. To fix that problem I used a piece of rubber from a bicycle tire repair kit with a little glue. You cannot see the rubber piece at all. 

Good luck, I spent forever tracking down the source of the rattles/buzzes in those front doors.


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

Awesome!!!! Thank you. 

Where did you get the plates for the door?


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## ClinesSelect (Apr 16, 2006)

CMR22 said:


> Awesome!!!! Thank you.
> 
> Where did you get the plates for the door?


http://www.jimmijammer.com/Dealer%20List.htm


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Got some pics up last night in the install gallery. Try going here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=252204&postcount=14

Ge0


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

ClinesSelect said:


> http://www.jimmijammer.com/Dealer%20List.htm


Damn, wish I needed those - 5 minute walk from a dealer


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## Infinity (Jun 28, 2005)

FWIW, I got the liquid eDead to stick to plastic quite easily by simply wiping the panel down with a liquid deglosser, sometimes called liquid sandpaper.
http://www.packserv.com/Content-Public/Products-By-Brand/Page.asp?iID=1
About halfway down. I used it to clean/prep all the metal surfaces, too, since I had it. I wonder if this is why I didn't have any of the issues associated with eDead that others had??


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Infinity said:


> FWIW, I got the liquid eDead to stick to plastic quite easily by simply wiping the panel down with a liquid deglosser, sometimes called liquid sandpaper.
> http://www.packserv.com/Content-Public/Products-By-Brand/Page.asp?iID=1
> About halfway down. I used it to clean/prep all the metal surfaces, too, since I had it. I wonder if this is why I didn't have any of the issues associated with eDead that others had??


That could be, looks like it actually melts the plastic. Might weaken it but it would provide some bite for the paint on liquid. Just to be clear, any of the liquids will stick to plastic, problems don't tend to show until they are fully cured and the plastic is twisted, bent or vibrated heavily.

If you mean you haven't had problems with liquid eDead on plastic, that could be it. If you are talking about old asphalt mat eDead, that was temperature related and not a 100% failure rate. If you are talking about the new eDead, the only problems I've seen were for v1² mounted vertically and inverted. THat also seems to have a temperature component and is pretty easily explained by the weak adhesive bond and strong curl in the facing plastic.


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