# Soundstream PN4.520D



## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

Morning gents.. Was curious if anyone has any extensive experience with the above referenced amplifier. Before I get into this let me state this just so you know I'm not some newbie hobbyist out there doing his own thing. I was in the first group of 100 people in the US allowed to take/pass the MECP exam back in 91 during my career as a professional installer. Since then I've moved onto the IT world where I've been a network infrastructure engineer since. I've had vehicles entered and taking respectable placings in IASCA sponsored competitions back in the day. Anyway, onto the issue.

Great little amp in 2 channel or 4 channel mode without issue. However when bridging this amp into a 4 ohm load according to SS manual or stamped ink on the amp itself, I've toasted 3 different sets of speakers, 2 pairs of Hat 6.5" and a pair of Polk DXi6500 within 8 hours of installation and 3 totally different installations meaning 3 different amps, 3 different vehicles. 2 of those amps were the older style with the speaker output harness, the other with the speaker output terminal block.

Did some measurements on the outputs of the amp albeit with no load on it and I'm seeing some pretty significant voltages that IMO are not normal; in excess of 70vac.

After I verified with SS tech support (Scott) that their manual was correctly printed (they are known for misprinting manuals) I then investigated a bit further with no resolve. All wiring is correct and amp is in correct configuration. I then moved onto the Technical Product Manager for the Picaso Nano series of amps, (Vincent) and got no where with him either with him basically telling me that the input gains are super-sensitive and the head unit used should have less than a 2v RCA output to be used with this amp to which I politely called BS to his statement. So I've gotten to the point where I won't recommend the amp to be installed in a bridged mode.

I know these are being installed correctly by myself and I know the setup is not being abused. 1 set of the HATs were toasted within 10 minutes of installation sitting in my garage.

Something ain't right with this amp in bridged mode ONLY and I'd really like to get to the bottom of it.

Any input from you more in-tune guys would be much appreciated.


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## bkjay (Jul 7, 2009)

Sorry I can't help but I would like to no the answer to your problem, being that I have interest in their amps.


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## [email protected]dstream (May 18, 2012)

UltranutZ, 
I am curios how you measured 70Vac on that amplifier. According to your calculations that would make it 1225 watts. That amp is not capable of that kind of power. Ill try to help you get to the bottom of things, but Scott and Vicente are both correct with the information they have provided. We have sold thousands of those amplifiers and not had any issues as the one you are having. Help me, help you.....give me some more infer on your setup. Also that amps is NOT 2ohm bridgeable.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> UltranutZ,
> I am curios how you measured 70Vac on that amplifier. According to your calculations that would make it 1225 watts. That amp is not capable of that kind of power. Ill try to help you get to the bottom of things, but Scott and Vicente are both correct with the information they have provided. We have sold thousands of those amplifiers and not had any issues as the one you are having. Help me, help you.....give me some more infer on your setup. Also that amps is NOT 2ohm bridgeable.


Hi Ryan and WOW. didn't expect to get someone from SS on the wire so thank you for responding.



[email protected] said:


> According to your calculations that would make it 1225 watts


*EXACTLY!*

Ok first off let me say this. I've installed many of these in either 2 channel or 4 channel mode and aside from the EMI issue and FM signal, these amps kick azz and I've never had a problem with them. My problem comes in with the bridging mode of this amplifier. And yes you are correct in questioning my measurement methods because I did in fact measure without a load attached which was inaccurate by me and I knew that just didn't think about it when testing; Vincente and I talked about that aspect of it already as well. The 2 ohm statement above I fully understand and that was never a question or an issue in the 3 installs that I literally toasted 3 different sets of 4 ohm speakers within a few hours. 1 set were Polk DXi6500, where the tweeter smoked within 2 minutes of powering up, with amp gains at 6v (fully counterclockwise) from the amp adjustments and less than 1/4 volume out of a Sony DSX-S310BTX head unit with 4v RCA outputs. The other 2 sets were the Biketronics Titan II 6.5" BT471 speakers designed by HAT for Biketronics with a full 4 ohm spec-d and tested rating and lasted at most 6 hours before being toasted.

So; in bridged mode ONLY and regardless of whether it's the old style amp with the black speaker output harness or the new style with the terminal blocks this is where my issues are. 


The configuration:
Sony DSX-S310BTX head unit; 4v preouts; front, rear, and sub.
SS PN4.520D using RCA inputs front and rear for bridging mode 
(1) 4 0hm speaker on each of the 2 bridged channels for a total of 2 speakers only. 

I verified with Vincente that the wiring diagrams in the manuals are correct and that I was in fact connecting speaker + and - wires to the correct terminals or speaker wires in the case of a speaker output plug.


When connecting this amp in this configuration to any 4 ohm speaker, they are toast or will be very shortly.


The measurements I got from the outputs were as follows with NO LOAD applied;

Bridged wiring
1khz tone 0db 2.5 min in length
Pyramid regulated 30A power supply set to 14.28v
current draw of radio and amp with no volume applied = .8v
head unit output on RCAs was at full volume with 0 (zero) sound enhancements, bass treble, etc. 2.61v on front and 2.53v on rear


*1st amp (black speaker output harness)*

left bridged output:
15.3v, gain 6v
68.6v, gain .25v

right bridged output:
.256v, gain 6v
10.52v, gain .25v

Verified .02mv DC running the outputs rails.

*2nd amp (terminal block)*

left bridged output:
15.3v, gain 6v
68.9v, gain .25v

right bridged output:
.256v, gain 6v
10.55v, gain .25v

verified .015mv DC running the output rails.


I don't get it Ryan.. at all. This is more than uncommon for anything I've ever seen and especially the fact that I was seeing such significant voltage differences between right and left channels.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Your numbers being different per side seem very odd. When I look at the images of this amp it looks like the left side is for the rear and the right side is the front. The bridge mode connections look to be the RL- and RR+ for the rears and FL- and FR+ for the fronts. Which ones are you calling right vs left? Are your measurements for what you are calling the left the REAR speaker sets and the right is the FRONT?

Perhaps take a picture of how you have these amps bridged to help Ryan help you.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

here's what I'm referring to, sorry for the confusion. 

*black speaker harness*
left speaker + to violet wire 
left speaker - to green wire
right speaker + to gray wire
right speaker - to white wire

*terminal block*
left speaker + to bottom left terminal marked RR+
left speaker - to 4th terminal on bottom marked LR-
right speaker + to top left terminal marked RF+
right speaker - to 4th terminal on top marked LF-


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

and again, thank you both for your responses.. much appreciate as this has been driving me NutZ.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

are we done with this gents?

I've already spent 3+ weeks coming up with a solution to the EMI interference issues with this amp using this and looping the power and ground wires 3 times through the core. FM back to normal now.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Your voltages just do not make any sense. Your left measurements are higher at 6v then the right at .25v on both amps. The wiring setup you listed matches what the manual states no doubt but those voltages just do not make any sense at all. 

I really think pics of them wired up would be a good next step. It might help us to see something that you might not be. You know more eyes the better .


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

I understand pics are a guy thing as we're pictorial creatures but I don't have it setup any longer.

Not sure I understand the relevance of me stating exactly what my wiring is vs having a pic showing the exact same thing.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Setting on the amp. RCA connections anything that could cause the EXTREME varience in the voltages. And no it is not a guy thing. It is in an effort to help you. I have found someones issue before by looking at their pics even though they stated over and over again that their setup was correct. Not saying that is the case with you but just like I tell my guys at work, I like to see it all first hand before I kick it up the ladder. Just want to be 100% on the same page . 

Too bad you don't have these any more. Did you ever try switching the rca's? Or how about using Y's and running only one pair of rca's to the amp? The numbers suggest that there was something different between the front and rear here. Or it could just simply be a case of the fact that there was no load on any channel.

You also stated that you blew the *pairs* of speakers. With the voltage variences I would think only the left speakers would have blown. Especially since this even happen with the gains at 6v.


> with amp gains at 6v (fully counterclockwise)


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

oh I've still got everything, just put it all away. I'll put it together over the weekend and I'll post some pics for you to view sir... Sorry didn't mean to come off like an ass.. Not my intention.

Also I think you're right about the variances and having no load on them.. I knew to test with a load but simply forgot to do so. I'll do it with a load this time around. 

Thanks much for your responses 07azhhr, much appreciated sir. 

I would have thought Ryan would have chimed back in here by now.





07azhhr said:


> Setting on the amp. RCA connections anything that could cause the EXTREME varience in the voltages. And no it is not a guy thing. It is in an effort to help you. I have found someones issue before by looking at their pics even though they stated over and over again that their setup was correct. Not saying that is the case with you but just like I tell my guys at work, I like to see it all first hand before I kick it up the ladder. Just want to be 100% on the same page .
> 
> Too bad you don't have these any more. Did you ever try switching the rca's? Or how about using Y's and running only one pair of rca's to the amp? The numbers suggest that there was something different between the front and rear here. Or it could just simply be a case of the fact that there was no load on any channel.
> 
> You also stated that you blew the *pairs* of speakers. With the voltage variences I would think only the left speakers would have blown. Especially since this even happen with the gains at 6v.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Try it with just one set of rca's too. That way we eliminate the posibility of different hu settings and such.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

ok will do sir.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

well here we are over two weeks later and still nothing back from Bryan. No offense but just goes to show SS doesn't give a crap about the consumers who buy their products for motorcycle use, and there ARE A LOT OF US!

This is the same experience I had with Vincent at SS over a month ago; basically just blew me off with no admittance to a bridging issue, no admittance to the FM interference issues, nor any help on either issue... Guess I'll just hang my hat up on this one and also stop recommending the SS Nano products. So much for customer service... 

07azhhr, I appreciate your responses to my issues sir and no offense but I don't feel I need to take pics and post them of such a basic install scenario. I've installed THOUSANDS of systems in my years, of which MANY were in IASCA competitions long before some of you guys were even out of high school and I know what I'm doing. These issues lye with SS Nano products; whether they want to admit to them or not is pretty irrelevant to me. Would have just liked to have seen them make an effort to have the issues resolved but I can see that's not going to happen.


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## [email protected] (May 18, 2012)

Well thank you for the kind words. Unfortunately I do not have nearly the amount of free time I would need to sit on here all day to answer everyones questions as I wear many hats at Soundstream/Epsilon. I understand your frustration with the amplifier and as a few of us have stated,your issue is one none of us have seen here nor can we duplicate with any of our current stock. 

Myself and Scott and Vicente have all looked into this issue and none of us can even wrap our heads around your findings....we can not figure out why the amps you have are making so much power. Our next step is to send it to our amplifier engineer.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I would think you chalk this up to a defective amplifier. if they have sold thousands of these and yours is the only one doing it, send it in for repair.

could be something as simple as the PWM chip putting out way too much voltage on one side, no idea if these have split supplies or not. if it is out of warrenty, then open it and measure the supply. shouldnt be much higher than the max voltage output of the final stages.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

minbari said:


> I would think you chalk this up to a defective amplifier. if they have sold thousands of these and yours is the only one doing it, send it in for repair.
> 
> could be something as simple as the PWM chip putting out way too much voltage on one side, no idea if these have split supplies or not. if it is out of warrenty, then open it and measure the supply. shouldnt be much higher than the max voltage output of the final stages.




I would normally chalk this up to a defective amplifier but multiple amps, multiple speaker brands and irregardless of whether it was the old style amp with the speaker output harness or the newer style amp with speaker output terminals. All same result, blown speakers!

For testing purposes and just an FYI for 07az and Bryan. I did hook all this up last weekend to a pair of stock harley 8 ohms speakers from an older bike and guess what.. toasted within 10 minutes of being hooked up with gains set to 6v on the amp and digital volume control on Sony head unit being at setting 9 of a possible 50.. And to boot, ANOTHER different PN4.520D amp..


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

this doesnt make any sense. speakers dont just blow themselves by just being hooked up unless there is a huge amount of DC on the speaker lines.

even if the gain was all the way up and you were playing 0db test signals, 9 out of 50 on volume if not enough to blow up speakers, even if the amplifier is putting out 1200 watts. (which I doubt) speakers would be just pounding and distorting like mad.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

exactly! I sure wish someone would tell me something I don't already know.. 

none of it makes any sense.. and by the way, the above mentioned speakers blowing, no test tone was used. Simply a Johnny Cash store bought CD playing at a very low volume. 

My hopes are that SS will step up and help to identify the problem instead of insinuating it's me. I don't care who's problem it is, that's not my point.. My point is simply being able to use this amplifier that is rated at a 4 ohm load in bridged configuration without issue and that is not going to happen with the facts that I currently have. Scott tells me the wiring diagram is correct in the manual. Vincent tells me the wiring diagram is correct and that my wiring is correct but yet the problem is still there.

And for Ryan, if this is not something you want to discuss in an open forum, by all means feel free to email me.. [email protected]


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

UltranutZ said:


> exactly! I sure wish someone would tell me something I don't already know..
> 
> none of it makes any sense.. and by the way, the above mentioned speakers blowing, no test tone was used. Simply a Johnny Cash store bought CD playing at a very low volume.


then it has to be DC offset. if the volume of the speaker is low and it is still blowing, then it must be melting the voice coil. only way a speaker can get damaged is either too much heat or mechanically.


> My hopes are that SS will step up and help to identify the problem instead of insinuating it's me. I don't care who's problem it is, that's not my point.. My point is simply being able to use this amplifier that is rated at a 4 ohm load in bridged configuration without issue and that is not going to happen with the facts that I currently have. Scott tells me the wiring diagram is correct in the manual. Vincent tells me the wiring diagram is correct and that my wiring is correct but yet the problem is still there.
> 
> And for Ryan, if this is not something you want to discuss in an open forum, by all means feel free to email me.. [email protected]


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

minbari said:


> then it has to be DC offset. if the volume of the speaker is low and it is still blowing, then it must be melting the voice coil. only way a speaker can get damaged is either too much heat or mechanically.


I didn't test DC offset this past weekend but did in my previous test (posted above) and it was very minimal.. One more confusing factor. I just don't get it.. :disappointed:


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Did you measure the voltage this time with a load connected to the amp? Did you run only the front OR rear rca's to the amp and not both front and rear like before? You keep blowing BOTH speakers yet your numbers from before only suggest ONE side should get fried.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

07azhhr said:


> Did you measure the voltage this time with a load connected to the amp? Did you run only the front OR rear rca's to the amp and not both front and rear like before? You keep blowing BOTH speakers yet your numbers from before only suggest ONE side should get fried.


which suggests DC offset even more. if he is putting out 77VAC on one channel and 11VAC on the other, but both speakers are blowing? there has to be a common cause.

try this, put a 500uF cap on a woofer and test again. if it is DC offset, that will surely block it.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

UltranutZ said:


> My hopes are that SS will step up and help to identify the problem instead of insinuating it's me.


If you want them to step up then send them one of these amps so they can test it themselves. 

But honestly you seem like you are not wanting to help us help you. We want to help you but this is an issue that just doesn't make sense and since you won't try things that we suggest how can we help you?


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

minbari said:


> which suggests DC offset even more. if he is putting out 77VAC on one channel and 11VAC on the other, but both speakers are blowing? there has to be a common cause.
> 
> try this, put a 500uF cap on a woofer and test again. if it is DC offset, that will surely block it.


I hate to say this as he is not going to like reading this but I truely think he is creating the issue with his wiring or something.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

07azhhr said:


> I hate to say this as he is not going to like reading this but I truely think he is creating the issue with his wiring or something.


If you say so... 


I apologize as I didn't make myself clear so to answer your question above.


Left speaker blown.. right speaker fine in ALL cases
The AC measurement across the speakers leads (left bridged channel) I took with an 8 ohm speaker load was 59.4V
I used the left channel off the head unit 
used an RCA "Y" adapter to go into front inputs on amp
I used the right channel off the head unit 
used an RCA "Y" adapter to go into rear inputs on amp

I did the above individually starting with right channel since that's the one that seems to be doing ok. Played fine for the 30+ minutes tested.

Unplug rear inputs, plug in front inputs, left speaker gone within 10 minutes.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

07azhhr said:


> I hate to say this as he is not going to like reading this but I truely think he is creating the issue with his wiring or something.


as far as me creating the issue... first off I take constructive criticism just fine. Telling me I'm an idiot is something totally different.

Look at the manual for this amp.

How do you screw up (speaker harness)

Green being - to left speaker -
Violet being + to left speaker +

Gray being + to right speaker +
White being - to right speaker -


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

I'll be the first to tell you I screwed up.. Went back and read my posts and no where in there did I specify the left bridged output is where the problem is. I assumed (yeah I know) that whomever read the post would gather than from my voltage readings.

Again, my apologies for not making myself clear.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

UltranutZ said:


> as far as me creating the issue... first off I take constructive criticism just fine. Telling me I'm an idiot is something totally different.
> 
> Look at the manual for this amp.
> 
> ...


 
I am not calling you an idiot. I am suggesting that you have missed or are overlooking something. It happens. BUT I truely think you are letting your pride of being a previously certified installer get in the way of finding the problem. Everyone has DOH moments from time to time.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

i appreciate the feedback. Since I've got one speaker blown already, here's what I'm going to do.. 

I'm going to video the entire connection process for you
I'm going to post it on my dropbox where you can get to it. I'll send the link
The video will contain;

The Connection Procedure
The gain settings
The AC voltage reading from the headunit outputs
the AC voltage measurement prior to the left channel frying another speaker
The selection of the front inputs only 
And finally the destruction of the speaker itself


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

UltranutZ said:


> I'll be the first to tell you I screwed up.. Went back and read my posts and no where in there did I specify the left bridged output is where the problem is. I assumed (yeah I know) that whomever read the post would gather than from my voltage readings.
> 
> Again, my apologies for not making myself clear.


I got that the left side was the problem but every time you mention the speakers you make it sound like BOTH are blown. That makes it sound like something else.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Are you doing this on a bench?


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

the last 2 tests were on a bench

this test will be on a bench as well.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

when doing stuff like this I don't trust the electrical systems in the vehicle. I'd rather do it in a controlled environment.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Going back and reading it looks like you were initilly hooking up the Left speaker to the REAR amp outpus as those are the lr- and rr+ for bridging. Now you are saying that you are using the front channels for the left speakers yet you are still blowing speakers. This is suggesting something before the amp is the issue if only the left speaker is blowing. Try swapping the rcas left for right and rightfor left.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

FM issues resolved.

2 wraps of your power and ground wires through this and FM is back to normal...


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

well I spoke too soon. The PN2.350D amp that was just recently released, you can kiss your FM goodbye PERIOD! It's MUCH MUCH worse than the PN4.520D.

I guess no one enforces Part 15 of the FCC rules anymore.. Love the power, functionality, and physical design of the SS amps.. The power supply design sucks for interference. If you're thinking about these amps for any sort of install that will be in proximity to your head unit and want FM, you better rethink...


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## bkjay (Jul 7, 2009)

By chance do you have a rear a windsheild antena or is the ant. in the back of the car? If yes try to use a cheap aftermarket ant. from the headunit and mount it to the front of car.


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

motorcycle installations. you guys putting these in cars have probably never seen the issue because your putting them under seats and trunks, etc. these amps sit right on top of the stock head units on HD motorcycles...


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## bkjay (Jul 7, 2009)

Ok Gotcha.


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## Starlet-SQ (Apr 19, 2008)

and what happend to this issue?
Did you get it fixxed???
did you made the video ??
wondering since im intrested in these amps also


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## UltranutZ (Mar 4, 2013)

Starlet-SQ said:


> and what happend to this issue?
> Did you get it fixxed???
> did you made the video ??
> wondering since im intrested in these amps also


The bridging issue was never resolved. I tested this on several other PN4.520D amps and speaker combos. I gave up on the issue when SS blew me off.

I still use the amps to this day because of their power and ease of installation in a motorcycle environment but I won't bridge them for anyone as the outcome is certain to be detrimental to the speakers.


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## momofx (Oct 17, 2012)

Wow I am glad I researched this amp before buying it for my highs cos I am about to buy something else right now. Thanks for posting your ****ty experience with the "new" SS crap.


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