# Big 3, 0 Gauge vs 4 gauge...



## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

ok when I finish up my system install, I'm going to wire up "the big 3".

My question is, Should I spend the extra money for 1/0 gauge wire?
or should 4 gauge suffice ?

My system consists of 2 plannet audio vx-4004 amps (400wrms x2 a piece....though I will probably never run it with that much power)

whata u guys think ?


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## bryanwescoe (Nov 2, 2007)

illnastyimpreza said:


> ok when I finish up my system install, I'm going to wire up "the big 3".
> 
> My question is, Should I spend the extra money for 1/0 gauge wire?
> or should 4 gauge suffice ?
> ...


4 would probably suffice but if you're sourcing all the parts yourself, it shouldn't be that much more to go with 1/0 gauge.


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## rhinodog00 (Jul 1, 2007)

Go big the first time that way you wont have to upgrade in the future. Who knows you might want to add more or different amps.


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## Hayabusa (Oct 13, 2007)

illnastyimpreza said:


> ok when I finish up my system install, I'm going to wire up "the big 3".
> 
> My question is, Should I spend the extra money for 1/0 gauge wire?
> or should 4 gauge suffice ?
> ...


I'd recommend doing with 1/0 incase u ever want to upgrade amps in the future. Also the price difference shouldn't hurt your pockets much since the wire will be order in a small quantity. Get some basic 1/0 wire off knukonceptz or something they have nice prices on that stuff. I used 1/0 and haven't looked back. I get no dimming out of my system and I'm running a US Amp MD2D and MD43 on my stock 110A altenator. It made a nice difference for me.


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## starboy869 (Dec 16, 2006)

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

I would check ebay out in buying decent wire before knuKoncept.

Also you have to remember your helping out your starting in the winter time with a 3 upgrade.


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

x whatever on 1/0.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

4ga will be more than adequate. Big wire can sometimes get in the way or be more difficult to route in some cases. I'd put the money into a better quality connector than I would bigger wire.


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## starboy869 (Dec 16, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> 4ga will be more than adequate. Big wire can sometimes get in the way or be more difficult to route in some cases. I'd put the money into a better quality connector than I would bigger wire.


or the $ towards a quality wire vs cheap crap wire


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## johnson (May 1, 2007)

I dont see why you would need such a big wire for a 3' run.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Check number 16
http://www.bcae1.com/


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## rekd0514 (Sep 24, 2006)

I don't think I will ever put more than 4 AWG in my cars, not only because I probably won't have the power to need to. I also think that the difference between the 2 probably won't be that huge. Unless you are trying to suck every last volt and watt out of your amp. You can always just put 4 AWG in your amp's 1/0 AWG slot.


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## Wayne-o (Oct 30, 2007)

starboy869 said:


> or the $ towards a quality wire vs cheap crap wire



double that, I did a mini 3 upgrade, went with 4ga. setup, I figured it was only going to be two amps at about 700 watts maximum, the power wire is nice, the ground wire I waited on for about a month becase I ended up using the original ground wire for my amps, they were fine. lSo last week I went to finished the upgrade, remembering I needed more black 4ga to finish, bounced over to the local car audio shop and picked up their 4ga...let me just say this: 

you know when you have a turd and you look at it and say...'wow thats a turd' ? 

ok well this wire is polished. meaning its a polished turd. 

so if you are going to do a 4 ga, make sure its good wire, none of this 8ga wrapped in 4ga plastic crap...cause that will just piss ya off later. :blush: 

here is the skinny: even with the stock ground wire I had no light flicker in my system when the bass would hit, with this cheap ass polished turd of a ground wire...I now get some light flicker in the interior when the dome light is on.  

so use good wire!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

4 guage all the way. How much power do you think that alternator is going to put out?

4 ga is also easier to snake around in a cramped engine compartment.


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## Kahooli (Oct 17, 2007)

crazy me, I used 0000 (four ought) uninsulated copper for my ground to chassis, and 0 for my engine block.
both wrapped in big wire looms.
I had to heat the 0000 with a torch and bend it with vise grips to form it XD.

overkill? Yes. Expensive? No, got it all for free. 

alternator I just used 2 gauge copper welding cable.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Kahooli said:


> crazy me, I used 0000 (four ought) uninsulated copper for my ground to chassis, and 0 for my engine block.
> both wrapped in big wire looms.
> I had to heat the 0000 with a torch and bend it with vise grips to form it XD.
> 
> ...



Look at it this way, it reinforced the frame and motor mounts


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## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

awesome responces, thanks guys.

I checked out http://www.bcae1.com/ 

And I'm definatly going to go with 4 gauge.


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

What kind of battery terminals are you guys using with the 0 gauge?


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

invecs said:


> What kind of battery terminals are you guys using with the 0 gauge?


I am going to use a set of these:


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## starboy869 (Dec 16, 2006)

Those terminals are excellent. I just have a set of the 0/1 w/o the bling bling voltmeter. I'm thinking about getting there ampere meter and wire it in somewhere.


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## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

CMR22 said:


> I am going to use a set of these:


yeah... those are awesome terminals... how much did those run you ?

are those stinger ?


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## starboy869 (Dec 16, 2006)

yup


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## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

illnastyimpreza said:


> yeah... those are awesome terminals... how much did those run you ?
> 
> are those stinger ?


Those are not mine, it is from this install. 


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13527

I'm just copying some of his stuff. :blush: I think they are around $40 for the LED one and $35 for the other.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

CMR22 said:


> I think they are around $40 for the LED one and $35 for the other.


75 effing dolars is WAY too much for batery terminals..... go lead or go cheap, Farm and Fleet FTMFW! If they don't got it, you don't effing need it


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

chad said:


> 75 effing dolars is WAY too much for batery terminals..... go lead or go cheap, Farm and Fleet FTMFW! If they don't got it, you don't effing need it


you know how i know you're a hick...


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Thumper26 said:


> you know how i know you're a hick...


damn straight you do


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## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

That's too much money for me. I'm using a generic type which looks like the EFX terminals with one 0 gauge input, one 4 gauge input, and two 8 gauge inputs. The 0 gauge input is quite small to fit a 0 gauge without decreasing some wire strands.

http://www.scosche.com/products/sfID1/160/sfID2/163/productID/850

I'm looking for something similar but that cost less. Mine costs $10 for 2 terminals that looks the same as efx but without the efx sticker.

Is there a noticeable difference in using 0/1 gauge for the alternator to batt cable? I'm using 4ga..I don't know if I should still change it to 0 gauge.


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## boarder124 (Mar 16, 2006)

wallyworld also has some pretty cheap 1/0 termanals that work good. Just use them with ring terminals and you will be set.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

boarder124 said:


> wallyworld also has some pretty cheap 1/0 termanals that work good. Just use them with ring terminals and you will be set.


I'm rocking wally-world now and don't dig them. Need a hex head to disconnect  I have new coming... Want them?


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

back in teh day, cardomain had generic lead battery terminals with a 3/8" gold post anchored to them that stuck up about an inch. put as many ring terminals as you wanted, and screw it down.

i think i have a set of them packed away somewhere.


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## Wayne-o (Oct 30, 2007)

illnastyimpreza said:


> ok when I finish up my system install, I'm going to wire up "the big 3".
> 
> My question is, Should I spend the extra money for 1/0 gauge wire?
> or should 4 gauge suffice ?
> ...



drummed up a pic of my half ass Mini Big 3 setup I did a while back. 










alt: 









Ghetto ziptie action there before I dropped the line running to the amps: :blush: BTW the zips are gone now also. lol and moved to a red top...I dont deep cycle the truck so yellow was not needed, but I must admit...the yellows are better looking then the reds IMHO. 










I am running two memphis amps off of it and I see no issues, at about 600 watts total I have my gains all jerked around right now and i know its not dialed in for anything. 

but thats mine I was happy with the 4ga, I'd do 4 again if needed.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

And as they say in good 'ole Diymaville....4 gauge FTW.


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

MarkZ said:


> 4ga will be more than adequate. Big wire can sometimes get in the way or be more difficult to route in some cases. I'd put the money into a better quality connector than I would bigger wire.


Most excellent point Mark. The actual connection (wire to terminal, terminal to body of car) can be many more times resistive than the small difference between 4ga and 1/0ga wire.

Ge0


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

rhinodog00 said:


> Go big the first time that way you wont have to upgrade in the future. Who knows you might want to add more or different amps.


+1 there. And if you go to your local Home Depot or Lowes you can get flexible welding cable in the 0/1 size for pretty darn cheap. Not to mention that if you actually remember to ask for the flexible kind, that 0/1 wire is a breeze to work with. I did the big 3 in my xB using the very wire I'm mentioning in this post and it took me longer to techflex, heat shrink, and crimp the connectors on the wire than it did to run all 3 of them. And my 0/1 alt to battery run is zip tied to the original wire harness that runs through the engine bay so you can only see it attaching to the alt and to the battery. I can post pics when I get home from work if you'd like to see.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Boostedrex said:


> I can post pics when I get home from work if you'd like to see.


Yes pics.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> +1 there. And if you go to your local Home Depot or Lowes you can get flexible welding cable in the 0/1 size for pretty darn cheap. Not to mention that if you actually remember to ask for the flexible kind, that 0/1 wire is a breeze to work with. I did the big 3 in my xB using the very wire I'm mentioning in this post and it took me longer to techflex, heat shrink, and crimp the connectors on the wire than it did to run all 3 of them. And my 0/1 alt to battery run is zip tied to the original wire harness that runs through the engine bay so you can only see it attaching to the alt and to the battery. I can post pics when I get home from work if you'd like to see.


No matter how large of an amp you upgrade to the alternator will still only put out so much power  Run the big wire to the amp if it makes you feel good (but 4 GA will still work easy enough for everything but continious tone testing). 

You would be suprised how LITTLE your rig is pulling right now


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I'm quite sure that my gear isn't pulling much of anything at the moment. Even down the road if/when I go active I'm not anticipating needing my 0/1 awg Big 3. But since the wire was free to me I couldn't pass it up. And like someone on one of the forums I cruise said "There's no kill like overkill."

Glassman, I'll post pictures from under the hood when I get home. Should be in another 2 hours or less.

Zach


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Here are the pics of the cables I was talking about. Also a few pics of them installed so you can see what I was talking about as far as routing goes.


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## starboy869 (Dec 16, 2006)

pretty clean looking wire


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## QtrHorse (Oct 17, 2007)

I figured I would contribute to posting some nice Big 3 cable pic's. 








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Below are the cables installed. I installed a 200 amp alternator, that is the only reason I upgraded the cables. I would never need a 200 amp alternator for my audio needs but it was needed for other items (lights, compressor and soon to be extra batteries). I had not installed the other positive and ground cable that connects the stock second battery on the other side of the engine compartment in the pic below.








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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

QtrHorse said:


> I figured I would contribute to posting some nice Big 3 cable pic's.


Are those welding lugs? I have a cool way of soldering those


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## QtrHorse (Oct 17, 2007)

I guess you could say they are. They are just tinned copper lugs. I used a heavy duty crimper but I believe I will use solder on the next cables I make. I was going to just put them upside down in a vice and melt solder in them and then insert the wire. Is that they way you do it or is there another?


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Nice looking cables you got there QtrHorse. Very stout looking.


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

QtrHorse said:


> I guess you could say they are. They are just tinned copper lugs. I used a heavy duty crimper but I believe I will use solder on the next cables I make. I was going to just put them upside down in a vice and melt solder in them and then insert the wire. Is that they way you do it or is there another?


small butane torch and a long line of solder will get 'er done!


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## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

Boostedrex said:


> +1 there. And if you go to your local Home Depot or Lowes you can get flexible welding cable in the 0/1 size for pretty darn cheap. Not to mention that if you actually remember to ask for the flexible kind, that 0/1 wire is a breeze to work with. I did the big 3 in my xB using the very wire I'm mentioning in this post and it took me longer to techflex, heat shrink, and crimp the connectors on the wire than it did to run all 3 of them. And my 0/1 alt to battery run is zip tied to the original wire harness that runs through the engine bay so you can only see it attaching to the alt and to the battery. I can post pics when I get home from work if you'd like to see.


I'll definatly have to check out the welding cable...

how much does that stuff run you from the depot ?


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

The last time I bought some I bought 100 feet of it for $1.90 a foot or something along those lines. Thankfully that was for work so it got charged on the work credit card.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Thumper26 said:


> small butane torch and a long line of solder will get 'er done!


Here's the ones I did for my grounding work. What I do is take a standard welding cable ring (because I'm a cheap bastard) and drill a small hole in either side of it.

Then I slip it over the striped wire, SOMETIMES a bit of flux helps even with flux core solder. I then heat one hole with a torch and wick solder into the opposite hole, then do the same thing to the other side. The solder will wick TO the heat. Don't go too crazy with the heat or you will set the wire on fire. Don't go too crazy with the heat and solder or you will tin the wire into the jacket and it will no longer be flexable 

Right after solder:



















After taking a ride across the wire wheel:



















First layer of heat shrink:










Chad


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> The last time I bought some I bought 100 feet of it for $1.90 a foot or something along those lines. Thankfully that was for work so it got charged on the work credit card.



Of what guage?! That's awful pricey!


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Nice tip Chad !  [pun intended]


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## rekd0514 (Sep 24, 2006)

Wow very nice idea chad! I may use it.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

chad said:


> Of what guage?! That's awful pricey!


That was for 0/1 super flex welding cable. I might be off on my prices, but I don't think so. That purchase was made in Guam however so things are a bit more expensive there. Business trips have taught me that prices are never the same in two different locations.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> That was for 0/1 super flex welding cable. I might be off on my prices, but I don't think so. That purchase was made in Guam however so things are a bit more expensive there. Business trips have taught me that prices are never the same in two different locations.


I try to use Harris Welco-Flex when I can. I grab it from a local welding supply company. While there don't tell them what you are using it for, they don't like our types, AND the big tip, look around for remnants on spools, they will often times sell short peices cheap because they can't sell them for true welding runs. Wola! ground cable, bat to block, Big 3 stuff, etc. Then pay full price for the **** off the new spool for the long run. Don't get cocky and buy orange, IF you wreck your car and it's visibly exposed fire and EMT are trained to not touch the vehicle till the find out if the HV is disabled..... on a Hybrid car  While they determine you have a dino burner you could lie bleeding. Orange sure would look cool but not worth the hassle.

Chad


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## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

chad said:


> I try to use Harris Welco-Flex when I can. I grab it from a local welding supply company. While there don't tell them what you are using it for, they don't like our types, AND the big tip, look around for remnants on spools, they will often times sell short peices cheap because they can't sell them for true welding runs. Wola! ground cable, bat to block, Big 3 stuff, etc. Then pay full price for the **** off the new spool for the long run. Don't get cocky and buy orange, IF you wreck your car and it's visibly exposed fire and EMT are trained to not touch the vehicle till the find out if the HV is disabled..... on a Hybrid car  While they determine you have a dino burner you could lie bleeding. Orange sure would look cool but not worth the hassle.
> 
> Chad



good info there. I'll definatly have to check out my local welding supply...as well as the depot.... and I'll make sure I don't choose orange 

... overall, awesome thread here guys ! picked up TONS of good info...

also... that techflex stuff looks AWESOME !, if its cheap I'll definatly have to grab some with the money I save from choosing welding cable


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but what do big 3 means? I know it is refering to power wire. 1st one for sure I know is power, 2nd I guess is ground, how about 3rd? This I really don't know. Just got my Knu power wire today.


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## Ianaconi (Nov 11, 2006)

1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Thanks for the info...


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## Ianaconi (Nov 11, 2006)

My pleasure sir


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Anyway, as the main power supply I will be using 1/0awg from battery to distribution block then branch out to 2 amps with 4awg, will there be any problem if the big 3 are using 4awg? Or atleast alternator to battery positive
using 1/0 and other 2 using 4awg? Currently my length is enough for main power supply only. Or I use welding cable as replacement?


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## Ianaconi (Nov 11, 2006)

It should be perfectly fine mate.

My system will be similar but I am gonna be using 3 amps, so will be 3x 4AWG cables. I will probably use 4AWG for the BIG3.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Ok... Then I won't get my wallet slashed for nothing. My country selling 1/0awg power wire(unknown brand) for USD13 per meter. My setup the most will be 2 amps(1 mono and 1 5ch amp)


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## starboy869 (Dec 16, 2006)

kyheng said:


> Ok... Then I won't get my wallet slashed for nothing. My country selling 1/0awg power wire(unknown brand) for USD13 per meter. My setup the most will be 2 amps(1 mono and 1 5ch amp)



I would think 0/1 GA would be overkill for your setup. 4GA or 2GA would be more than enough. Unless your going to have a constant 200+amp draw (which I highly doubt) you don't need 0/1 for the short lengths on the big three.

I'm going to be doing a mix. 0GA for the Battery to ground, 0GA from the engine ground to frame. 4GA from the HI output alt to battery. My Waglner alt maxs out at 175 amps so there's no need for 0/1 GA for that line.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

In matter of fact, I agree with you that 1/0 is overkill. But since I buying across the ocean, why not buy a big one? But now I abit regret, it is too big. By doing a rough calculations, my monoblock will be using 60amp(max volume) and 5ch amp will be 75amp. So is way less than 150amp total.


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## Gill (Sep 26, 2007)

Sorry for hijacking the thread,i need advice on this:-
I am adding a mono in my setup,it's rated [email protected] ohms,[email protected],
second amp is JBL74.4 power all channel put together [email protected]
Right now i am powering the amp with AUDISON FPK300 cable it 8 AWG power & grond cable, 60 A fuse with it.
What should be the AWG for my new power cable?
Can i run two different power cable from the battery terminal there by eleminating the d block requirement.it it's not possible,
what possible use can i make out of AUDISON POWER cable that i have in my setup,i don't wanta waste it anyways.
Plz advice!!!!


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## starboy869 (Dec 16, 2006)

I would change the 8GA to a 4GA. Get a small fused d-block and run the 8ga from there to your amps. Plus upgrade the 8GA ground to a 4GA as well.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Gill, upgrade the big 3 as what others said. Change your current 60amp main fuse to 100amp. If you are not a SPL fanatic, then you might only need a length of 4awg for the main power from battery to distribution block. Others grouding can use back your current 8awg.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

kyheng said:


> Gill, upgrade the big 3 as what others said. Change your current 60amp main fuse to 100amp. If you are not a SPL fanatic, then you might only need a length of 4awg for the main power from battery to distribution block. Others grouding can use back your current 8awg.


There is _no_ reason to use a smaller ground wire than power wire.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

As far as I know, after reading some guides, the ground should follow the amp's power supply, if amp is 4awg, then 4awg ground, 8 then 8. This is what I understand, correct me if wrong.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

kyheng said:


> As far as I know, after reading some guides, the ground should follow the amp's power supply, if amp is 4awg, then 4awg ground, 8 then 8. This is what I understand, correct me if wrong.


Yup, that's my understanding too. I just wasn't clear on what you meant by this:


kyheng said:


> Others grouding can use back your current 8awg.


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## Gill (Sep 26, 2007)

kyheng said:


> Gill, upgrade the big 3 as what others said. Change your current 60amp main fuse to 100amp. If you are not a SPL fanatic, then you might only need a length of 4awg for the main power from battery to distribution block. Others grouding can use back your current 8awg.


So that means i need to buy a 4awg from battery terminal to D-block,rest i can use my exsisting 8awg to power each amp from the D-block and to ground the amp.As you mentioned the i need to upgrade the main fuse,Is it possible to put up the new fuse in the same fuse holder of the Audison wire.
One thing more i intend to upgrade my 4 channel amp in near future thought the mono will stay for long,i hope i won't need to rewise my setup in the amp change.will cable upgrade suffice the new amp too.
Cheers!


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Yes. If the 100amp fuse is same with your current fuse holder, then should no problem.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Gill, Kyheng, try reading this and see if it helps to answer your Q's


Hic said:


> Check number 16
> http://www.bcae1.com/


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

It is a good place to get all the basic infos. But if not mistaken, this site has long time ago never update. Those calculations can be used when we know what type of the power wire(grade) used, oxidization.... I not against the site, but this is something that we need to look at.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Try coating your final connection with something to help minimize the oxidation.[ i.e. grease, silicone, paint, etc.., ]

Some use smaller wires if they use less than optimal power, without negative effects.

Example: a firehose needs to move alot of water at a tremendous pressure.
a gardenhose does not!

Which analogy is closer to your system requirements?


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

X2 to what HIC said. Before doing anything, decide what you want, you want overdo or just enough.
My Knu power wire do come with a silicone paste.


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## Gill (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks alot, i won't settle for just enough,will make sure that i have headroom ,so that in next amp upgrade i don't need to think about it.
Cheers!


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

illnastyimpreza said:


> good info there. I'll definatly have to check out my local welding supply...as well as the depot.... and I'll make sure I don't choose orange
> 
> ... overall, awesome thread here guys ! picked up TONS of good info...
> 
> also... that techflex stuff looks AWESOME !, if its cheap I'll definatly have to grab some with the money I save from choosing welding cable


I love the Techflex treatment for my big3 and power/ground wires. I have to thank ClineSelect for showing me that trick in his Dodge Ram install. 

Chad, I had heard about the fire/rescue guys not getting near your car if they saw a HV wire. That's crazy. I always go for plain black wire jackets though since I cover every inch of it with Techflex anyway.

Zach


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> Chad, I had heard about the fire/rescue guys not getting near your car if they saw a HV wire. That's crazy. I always go for plain black wire jackets though since I cover every inch of it with Techflex anyway.
> 
> Zach



Yeah the Hybrid car has spawned a new set of rules.

Ricers like to do an engine swap then slap a "hybrid" sticker on it to signify the swap. I believe that's now illegal  BTW you are not a ricer if you do a swap, just if you advertise it


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

chad said:


> Yeah the Hybrid car has spawned a new set of rules.
> 
> Ricers like to do an engine swap then slap a "hybrid" sticker on it to signify the swap. I believe that's now illegal  BTW you are not a ricer if you do a swap, just if you advertise it


WOW! Ricers hit a new level of idiocy! I hadn't heard about them putting hybrid stickers/badges on their cars after doing a swap. That's just rediculous! And you didn't offend anyone about doing swaps. I've personally never understood the point of dropping lots of money into a Honda to make it faster (NSX and S2K are excluded from this statement) as they're still a Honda and were never meant to be race cars. I could start a HUGE rant about this topic, but I'll leave it at this: If you want a fast import car that you can race with, start with a real sports car i.e. something that's RWD or AWD and was meant to be fast in the first place. Just my .02 though.

I do agree with the new rules set forth about the HV cables though. If a rescue worker got bit by the power from the batteries of a hybrid car, that would be the end for them. That's some SERIOUS amperage.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> I do agree with the new rules set forth about the HV cables though. If a rescue worker got bit by the power from the batteries of a hybrid car, that would be the end for them. That's some SERIOUS amperage.


Yes it is and I for one am for ANY law that protects those who ensure our safety/lives... Period.

Chad


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## loNote (Nov 26, 2007)

i say go with 0/1 because you wouldnt want to re-do it when you decide what you have isn't enough!


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## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

Boostedrex said:


> WOW! Ricers hit a new level of idiocy! I hadn't heard about them putting hybrid stickers/badges on their cars after doing a swap. That's just rediculous! And you didn't offend anyone about doing swaps. I've personally never understood the point of dropping lots of money into a Honda to make it faster (NSX and S2K are excluded from this statement) as they're still a Honda and were never meant to be race cars. I could start a HUGE rant about this topic, but I'll leave it at this: If you want a fast import car that you can race with, start with a real sports car i.e. something that's RWD or AWD and was meant to be fast in the first place. Just my .02 though.
> 
> I do agree with the new rules set forth about the HV cables though. If a rescue worker got bit by the power from the batteries of a hybrid car, that would be the end for them. That's some SERIOUS amperage.



first off... the term "hybrid" is was usualy meant to mean a different phase or model of engine combined with another model year or version... usualy mixed and matched...ie JDM heads on a USDM block or whatnot...

and 2nd... I used to totaly agree with your about the Honduh situation... I mean come on... how many freakin honduh civivs do you see everyday with 7 different colors and a HUGE fart can on the back??? They have seriously become the mockery of automotive modification...

I used to think they where the absolute LAMEST things on 4 wheels...Being a Subaru fanatic I would never buy anything that was not AWD... but my point of view all changed the other day when my friend from work took me for a ride in his civic...

I work @ a semiconductor company building Ion implanters... my co-worker is an electrical/mechanical engineer.... but his REAL passion is for cars. He architects and builds engines in his basement for fun... and he built himself a 600hp civic that probably weighs 2200 lbs  the thing is an absolute freaking ROCKET ship  ...

when we took off we where doing almost 100mph ...before we left the work parking lot ! hahahaha


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## Infinity (Jun 28, 2005)

Which one of you pushed it to get it moving? A 600hp Civic would be a rocket once it finally started going, but my cordless drill probably still has more torque. It is impossible to describe the fun of driving a torque monster on the street. I've had a few Kenne Bell charged Mustangs, and once drove a turboed Viper (RETARDED fast vehicle. Took me a week to quit grinning). That's where the fun is at.


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## Gill (Sep 26, 2007)

*Two seperate power cables!*

What if i run two seperate power cable for two amps?Is it possible?Both of two power cable shall be fused seperately acc to the size and current consumption.I am running a 8 gw for [email protected] ch amp and i intend to use a 2 gw for a 900w mono!I don't want to waste the 8gw wire(Being a connection audision wire),I plan to add a seperate power cable for the mono from battery(No dist BLock).
Can i do it!If there is any drawbak?or any point of concern!!!
Cheers!


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## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

*Re: Two seperate power cables!*



Gill said:


> What if i run two seperate power cable for two amps?Is it possible?Both of two power cable shall be fused seperately acc to the size and current consumption.I am running a 8 gw for [email protected] ch amp and i intend to use a 2 gw for a 900w mono!I don't want to waste the 8gw wire(Being a connection audision wire),I plan to add a seperate power cable for the mono from battery(No dist BLock).
> Can i do it!If there is any drawbak?or any point of concern!!!
> Cheers!


yeah good way to save money/equipment... nothing wrong with that.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: Two seperate power cables!*



Gill said:


> What if i run two seperate power cable for two amps?Is it possible?Both of two power cable shall be fused seperately acc to the size and current consumption.I am running a 8 gw for [email protected] ch amp and i intend to use a 2 gw for a 900w mono!I don't want to waste the 8gw wire(Being a connection audision wire),I plan to add a seperate power cable for the mono from battery(No dist BLock).
> Can i do it!If there is any drawbak?or any point of concern!!!
> Cheers!


That will work fine and actually ideal but labor intensive. If I HAD to run a larger wire I'l leave the old and do just that.


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## Gill (Sep 26, 2007)

I hope by running two seperate power cables the resistance would be same as it would have been with a single cable to a distribution block and then to amplifier,more over i hope two power cablt won't drain the battery!!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Gill said:


> I hope by running two seperate power cables the resistance would be same as it would have been with a single cable to a distribution block and then to amplifier,more over i hope two power cablt won't drain the battery!!


one cable or 10 cables, the battery will drain at the same rate.


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## hill115sided (Jul 22, 2009)

Great information guys.

I have searched and can not seem to find the rating of the fusiable link that's in the 2005 Dodge Ram, alternantor to battery.

Thanks


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## DaleCarter (Jan 3, 2008)

Chad's soldering tip ROCKS!!! 

Welding cable ROCKS!!!

I like saying ROCKS!!! today


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

sort of an off topic question but im about to upgrade my alt to batt cable and ive tried finding the path of the original one and it seems as if it doesn't even go to the battery...it disappears. The only thing i can think of is it goes to the fuse box but even then the two wires at either ends are different...

Would it be a bad thing to just attach the upgraded wire on top of the original one? so i would have two alt power wires coming off of it.


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## cmayo117 (Aug 14, 2009)

Austin said:


> sort of an off topic question but im about to upgrade my alt to batt cable and ive tried finding the path of the original one and it seems as if it doesn't even go to the battery...it disappears. The only thing i can think of is it goes to the fuse box but even then the two wires at either ends are different...
> 
> Would it be a bad thing to just attach the upgraded wire on top of the original one? so i would have two alt power wires coming off of it.


No, it's actually a good thing. Current takes the path of least resistance.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

cmayo117 said:


> No, it's actually a good thing. Current takes the path of least resistance.


you sure? I don't want it to mess anything up.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

The Big 3 is a waste of money unless your alternator is in a trailer behind your car.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> The Big 3 is a waste of money unless your alternator is in a trailer behind your car.


I'm sure it is but im getting 40 feet of 0 gauge and im gonna use it everywhere i can.


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## cmayo117 (Aug 14, 2009)

Austin said:


> you sure? I don't want it to mess anything up.


Yep I'm sure. That's how I did mine. Having two small power wires is the same as having one larger one.


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## cmayo117 (Aug 14, 2009)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> The Big 3 is a waste of money unless your alternator is in a trailer behind your car.


How so? I know it probably doesn't really do much good if you don't have HO alternator, but it still doesn't hurt to do it on a factory alt. If you do have an HO alt then it's definitely not a waste of money.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

cmayo117 said:


> Yep I'm sure. That's how I did mine. Having two small power wires is the same as having one larger one.


Ok thats true. But its gonna be the factory one (like 8 or 6 gauge) and then a 0 gauge one to my battery. Thanks for your help.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

cmayo117 said:


> How so? I know it probably doesn't really do much good if you don't have HO alternator, but it still doesn't hurt to do it on a factory alt. If you do have an HO alt then it's definitely not a waste of money.


Sure, it doesn't hurt. It also doesn't hurt to put your bathroom mirror into a professional clean room to be cleaned with deionized water and soap after having it cleaned with Windex in your bathroom. It _will_ be _cleaner_ so it would not hurt.

Does the difference you gain matter in anything but absolute terms though?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Sure, it doesn't hurt. It also doesn't hurt to put your bathroom mirror into a professional clean room to be cleaned with deionized water and soap after having it cleaned with Windex in your bathroom. It _will_ be _cleaner_ so it would not hurt.
> 
> Does the difference you gain matter in anything but absolute terms though?


Right. I didn't say it would degrade your performance. I just said it was a waste of money. If it's free, then it's just unnecessary.


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## cmayo117 (Aug 14, 2009)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Right. I didn't say it would degrade your performance. I just said it was a waste of money. If it's free, then it's just unnecessary.


Alright, I looked it up and you're right. It's usually a waste of money for a run that short.


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## kapone (Sep 22, 2009)

May be I'm being dense here, but a 4 gauge copper wire is rated for atleast 200 amps for 20' length. Now, 20' is probably about right for most cars, including routing around things. 200 amps? How many folks have alternators that can handle north of that? Anything beyond 4 gauge for those distances, would be a complete waste of money, I'd think?


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

Yes it would be a waste if you were specifically buying 0 gauge for that purpose. But in my case i will have more than 20 feet left over after my main power run so I'm going to do it anyways.


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## cmayo117 (Aug 14, 2009)

kapone said:


> May be I'm being dense here, but a 4 gauge copper wire is rated for atleast 200 amps for 20' length. Now, 20' is probably about right for most cars, including routing around things. 200 amps? How many folks have alternators that can handle north of that? Anything beyond 4 gauge for those distances, would be a complete waste of money, I'd think?


The voltage drop for 4 gauge copper wire over 20 feet at 200 amps is about 2 volts according to this site: American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies


So yeah it can handle it but you will lose a lot of power in the process.


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## kapone (Sep 22, 2009)

cmayo117 said:


> The voltage drop for 4 gauge copper wire over 20 feet at 200 amps is about 2 volts according to this site: American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies
> 
> 
> So yeah it can handle it but you will lose a lot of power in the process.


?? *2v*? That seems horribly inefficient! But wait . My point was that the vast majority of folks out there will not have alternators that can handle north of 200 amps. And you'll never realistically be able to draw the full amps capacity of an alternator, without damaging it, not to mention probably going deaf in the process.

Competetion cars are a whole different ballgame. We're talking everyday cars here. And most vehicle charging systems vacillate between 11.5-14.5v give or take, depending on the car. So, yes, your power consumption/amp draw will fluctuate, and yes there's a a voltage drop using ANY wire, but let's look at "real world" scenarios. I doubt most people would hit the stops and end up running even 100 amps in a continued manner, with their sound systems.

100amps x 12v = 1200 watts. That's a LOT of power and exceedingly loud if you;re consuming that much continuously. 200 amps is twice that much.


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## cmayo117 (Aug 14, 2009)

Austin said:


> Yes it would be a waste if you were specifically buying 0 gauge for that purpose. But in my case i will have more than 20 feet left over after my main power run so I'm going to do it anyways.


exactly



kapone said:


> ?? *2v*? That seems horribly inefficient! But wait . My point was that the vast majority of folks out there will not have alternators that can handle north of 200 amps. And you'll never realistically be able to draw the full amps capacity of an alternator, without damaging it, not to mention probably going deaf in the process.
> 
> Competetion cars are a whole different ballgame. We're talking everyday cars here. And most vehicle charging systems vacillate between 11.5-14.5v give or take, depending on the car. So, yes, your power consumption/amp draw will fluctuate, and yes there's a a voltage drop using ANY wire, but let's look at "real world" scenarios. I doubt most people would hit the stops and end up running even 100 amps in a continued manner, with their sound systems.
> 
> 100amps x 12v = 1200 watts. That's a LOT of power and exceedingly loud if you;re consuming that much continuously. 200 amps is twice that much.


Well, no amp is perfectly efficient. A 1000 watt amp that is 75% efficient will pull 93 amps at its rated power at 14.4 volts. Even though music is dynamic and you don't need that much power continuously, you still need to be able to supply it during short peaks when you do need that much power. 

Back to what you were saying, for the average SQ car, 4 gauge is probably enough. It all depends on how powerful of a system you want. That's why there are charts to look at and see how big of wire you really need.


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## gitmobass (Nov 7, 2009)

I'd go with 1/0. But that's because I love overkill!


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

gitmobass said:


> I'd go with 1/0. But that's because I love overkill!


A respectable post.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

Im about to do my alt to batt wire and im not sure what side to put the fuse on...do i need it closer to the battery or the alt? or the middle?

I would think it should be closer to the batt since that will have constant power no matter what like in an accident, but the alt is still producing power when the car is running..so im stumped right now.


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## cmayo117 (Aug 14, 2009)

Honestly I never put a fuse on mine. lol so hopefully it doesn't ever short out or anything. But I would think close to the battery would be best.


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## MorfiusX (Sep 4, 2009)

Austin said:


> Im about to do my alt to batt wire and im not sure what side to put the fuse on...do i need it closer to the battery or the alt? or the middle?
> 
> I would think it should be closer to the batt since that will have constant power no matter what like in an accident, but the alt is still producing power when the car is running..so im stumped right now.


Closer to the source. So, from alt to bat, put it closer to alt.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

What's the source when the motor is not spinning?


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

MorfiusX said:


> Closer to the source. So, from alt to bat, put it closer to alt.


Are you sure...when the car is off the battery is now the source. This is why im so confused...

Edit: I think I am just going to put it closer to my battery. The only real reason I would need the fuse there is if I got into an accident and it sliced the wire creating a fire. And if I was in an accident my car would most likely not be running afterwards (if it was a major one). So ultimately I would think my battery would be my source. Correct me if I'm wrong please.


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## MorfiusX (Sep 4, 2009)

Austin said:


> Are you sure...when the car is off the battery is now the source. This is why im so confused...


I'm just going off an old (12+ years) MECP book I have. It says inline fuses go as close to the source as possible. In this sittuation, I would say closer to the alt if possible on the alt - bat wire. Another would belong close to the bat on the bat - amp wire.


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## MorfiusX (Sep 4, 2009)

chad said:


> What's the source when the motor is not spinning?


The battery, which from what I am aware, needs its own inline fuse between the bat and amp as well. But, I will value the opinions of someone who has nearly 20k more posts than me around here.


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## cmayo117 (Aug 14, 2009)

MorfiusX said:


> I'm just going off an old (12+ years) MECP book I have. It says inline fuses go as close to the source as possible. In this sittuation, I would say closer to the alt if possible on the alt - bat wire. Another would belong close to the bat on the bat - amp wire.


But either the battery or alt can be a source of power, and the battery can always be a source. The alt can only be a source when the engine is running.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

****, i dunno either man, I was just bringing up a point. I was looking at that and also which device can make the most amount of instantaneous current.

There's people here with WAY less post than I have that could OWN me in car audio.


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## MorfiusX (Sep 4, 2009)

Austin said:


> Are you sure...when the car is off the battery is now the source. This is why im so confused...


One more note, on my Civic, there is an inline fuse on the factory alt - bat wire, but its closer to the bat. I think the most important thing is to have one inline, regardless of distance from the source.


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## Austin (Mar 12, 2009)

MorfiusX said:


> I'm just going off an old (12+ years) MECP book I have. It says inline fuses go as close to the source as possible. In this sittuation, I would say closer to the alt if possible on the alt - bat wire. Another would belong close to the bat on the bat - amp wire.


I understand what you are trying to say. But I am talking about the battery wire to the alternator. Nothing about the amp. I know the alternator doesnt use any power when the car is off but there is still power available through that wire when the alternator isnt spinning. (It goes the opposite way).

But since it is only about a 4-5 foot run I honestly don't think it matters Where the fuse goes am I wrong? I think I'm just paranoid haha.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

MorfiusX said:


> One more note, on my Civic, there is an inline fuse on the factory alt - bat wire, but its closer to the bat. I think the most important thing is to have one inline, regardless of distance from the source.


What year Civic? Mine is in the underhood fuse panel.


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## MorfiusX (Sep 4, 2009)

chad said:


> What year Civic? Mine is in the underhood fuse panel.


2009 (8th Gen). Mine does the same thing. It goes Alt (~3.5ft) -> Fuse Block (~1.5ft) -> Battery.


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## cmayo117 (Aug 14, 2009)

MorfiusX said:


> 2009 (8th Gen). Mine does the same thing. It goes Alt (~3.5ft) -> Fuse Block (~1.5ft) -> Battery.


I have a 7th gen and mine's the same way. Weird how many people drive Civics these days.


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