# JBL MS-series amps



## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

Anyone got an ETA on the new JBL MS amps?


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

I believe August...

100 x 4 is one model. 500 x 1 is the other.

Tiny as hell; DSP built in.

That's what I know.


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## Yuck. (Dec 28, 2009)

Sub'd for info


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

August --- just a few more weeks! Nice.

Any word on pricing?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

End of August is our goal.


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

Cool. Pricing? Or is that still TBD.


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

Subscribed. Can't wait


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## M&MBlue (Jan 16, 2009)

Any hints about the processing abilities??


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

I bet you Skynet started out as some kind of innocuous processor too. Just sayin'...


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> End of August is our goal.


Any information on models? Or are there just going to be the two mentioned above?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

M&MBlue said:


> Any hints about the processing abilities??


 

All channels can be HP, LP or BP.
Selectable 1st, 2nd or 4th order crossovers
100 frequency selections with resolution where you need it and not where you don't
1Hz resolution on subwoofer amp crossover
Input mixer in DSP--no Y adapters ever needed--channels are assigned to inputs
Output Level Control in either 1dB or .5dB steps (can't remember)
Signal input can take 100mV to 15V on the RCA jacks--we provide adapters that are RCA male on one end and teeny tiny barrier strip terminal on the other.
Input sensitivity setup CD included
Wireless subwoofer control (accesses same kind of sub control as in MS-8--not a level-- it's a shelf that can be applied to all amplifiers to which the control is paired). Boosts below 60 and never above 160.


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## Se7en (Mar 28, 2007)

Class D or AB?


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## ibanzil (Jun 29, 2008)

^^^From the description of it's size, I'm guessing class D.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Ouch... JL is going to be SPANKED  

Kelvin


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

Any benefit in running these with MS8 or would it still be best to disable all amp abilities and let ms8 do all?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

AAAAAAA said:


> Any benefit in running these with MS8 or would it still be best to disable all amp abilities and let ms8 do all?


I'm pretty sure that you'll be able to do a 3 way (hell even a 4 way) upfront, with sides and rears (on separate channels), center and sub. 
ALL ACTIVE 

Kelvin


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Hmm. Sounds worth waiting for. The wireless control is an especially nice feature, especially since you seem to indicate it will be paired with the MS-8's control. 

But...are you allowed to tell us the size yet, Andy? Also, check your e-mail.


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## trevordj (Feb 22, 2009)

sub'd, these little things sound awesome


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## crzystng (May 2, 2008)

Any pictures by chance?


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## alachua (Jun 30, 2008)

from this thread.


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## rommelrommel (Apr 11, 2007)

As per Andy in the MS8 thread:

Digital amps about 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5.
MS-A1001(4), 4x100w @ 4ohms
MS-A5001, 1x500w @ 4 0hms


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jesus, you guys are doing things right these days.


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## Audio_Images (Jun 21, 2010)

Harman has always done things right in home audio, other than the OS stuff I dont know about mobile stuff. 

I love my Citation THX home stuff.


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

subwoofery said:


> I'm pretty sure that you'll be able to do a 3 way (hell even a 4 way) upfront, with sides and rears (on separate channels), center and sub.
> ALL ACTIVE


That is indeed the plan


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## freemind (Sep 11, 2008)

rommelrommel said:


> As per Andy in the MS8 thread:
> 
> Digital amps about 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5.
> MS-A1001(4), 4x100w @ 4ohms
> MS-A5001, 1x500w @ 4 0hms


Holey CRAP!


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Yes, they are class-d. same power 2 or 4 ohms. 

The bass control doesn't pair with MS-8, it's the same filter in the DSP. So, let's say you like the sound of the system in your BMW 7 series. You can add these amps between the factory amp and speakers, add a sub if you want to, pair one control with all the amps in the system and you'll have bass boost like the sub control in MS-8. 

Oh, and the size Craig posted is correct. about 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5. They're a little taller than a PDX.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

For input sensitivity setting, there are three indicator lights: A red down arrow, a yellow up arrow and a green check mark. You put the setup CD in the player, push the two buttons that flank the rotary control to enter setup mode, which mutes the outputs. Then you turn the volume of the radio up and adjust the potentiometer according to the arrows until the green check mark lights. That indicates that the setting is correct and will provide about 9dB of gain overlap. No guessing. There's a range switch that toggeles between 100mV-1.5V and 1.5V to 15V. There's also a "Hi2" setting that can be used with factory systems that go into protect mode when you disconnect a speaker--Cadillac, some VW, some BMW, etc. That setting fools the factory system into thinking that a speaker is still connected, but doesn't draw a bunch of current.


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

What will the 4 channel do for running passive up front 100x2 and a sub off the rear channels bridged? Still only 200w bridged?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Is the end of August goal for the completion of the approval process or the sale date?


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

Wow these sound KILLER! I may need to wait for these to come out. 
subscribed!


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

How about 8ohm power?


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> For input sensitivity setting, there are three indicator lights: A red down arrow, a yellow up arrow and a green check mark. You put the setup CD in the player, push the two buttons that flank the rotary control to enter setup mode, which mutes the outputs. Then you turn the volume of the radio up and adjust the potentiometer according to the arrows until the green check mark lights. That indicates that the setting is correct and will provide about 9dB of gain overlap. No guessing. There's a range switch that toggeles between 100mV-1.5V and 1.5V to 15V. There's also a "Hi2" setting that can be used with factory systems that go into protect mode when you disconnect a speaker--Cadillac, some VW, some BMW, etc. That setting fools the factory system into thinking that a speaker is still connected, but doesn't draw a bunch of current.


Good stuff. Nice to see some smart amps with sensible features and easy *repeatable* configuration. In a wilderness filled with analog no-frills amps on one side, and audiophile gold-plated ******** on the other.


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

AAAAAAA said:


> How about 8ohm power?


Ahh. Very good question. I'd like to know this as well. Would be great if they kept the same power output at 8 ohms.


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

what will be the msrp?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Will there be an MS-8 type display to control the amps from the front seat?


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

^He said just a wireless base remote.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> For input sensitivity setting, there are three indicator lights: A red down arrow, a yellow up arrow and a green check mark. You put the setup CD in the player, push the two buttons that flank the rotary control to enter setup mode, which mutes the outputs. Then you turn the volume of the radio up and adjust the potentiometer according to the arrows until the green check mark lights. That indicates that the setting is correct and will provide about 9dB of gain overlap. No guessing.



That's badass. 

Quick question; you say it mutes the outputs. Is this clipping indication done with taking the load into account? I know that clipping point on a pot will change with load. Wondering if these amps take that into account.


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

I would imagine that it would take load into account. I can't see the advantage unless it would. 

I glad someone s really taking a good, hard look at functionality and interface. These are truly break through products.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

It can't take load into account if it mutes the outputs. Although it can estimate it. If it knows what the rail drop is under a given load (pre-programmed) then it can factor this into the computation. The reason we hook up a load when trying to figure out where an amp clips is because we don't know anything about the particular amp's rail sag. JBL undoubtedly does. They built the friggin thing.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

kkant said:


> Ahh. Very good question. I'd like to know this as well. Would be great if they kept the same power output at 8 ohms.


No, it doesn't make the same power at 8 ohms. 8 ohms is a big fat waste, unless you have an 8-ohm driver that is way more efficient.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

MarkZ said:


> It can't take load into account if it mutes the outputs. Although it can estimate it. If it knows what the rail drop is under a given load (pre-programmed) then it can factor this into the computation. The reason we hook up a load when trying to figure out where an amp clips is because we don't know anything about the particular amp's rail sag. JBL undoubtedly does. They built the friggin thing.


No, it doesn't take the load into account. This input sensitivity setting procedure sets the voltage input to the DAC for maximum resolution and minimum noise. There's an output level control for setting the output level.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

MarkZ said:


> . The reason we hook up a load when trying to figure out where an amp clips is because we don't know anything about the particular amp's rail sag.


And because conventional amps cause you to use one control to choose a compromise between two things that should be controlled separately. Audio control used to gdo this right. Input control and output control. Input sensitivity setting minimizes noise and output level determines the amount of amplifier clipping allowed.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> Will there be an MS-8 type display to control the amps from the front seat?


No, the UI is on the amp.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Speaker-level inputs?


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

thanks for the reply, Andy.

I didn't realize it incorporates 2 controls: input and output. Never seen that done. That's nice.

Looks like you guys definately have done your homework.


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> Speaker-level inputs?


I am assuming so from this:



Andy W said:


> Signal input can take 100mV to 15V on the RCA jacks--we provide adapters that are RCA male on one end and teeny tiny barrier strip terminal on the other.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

OSN said:


> I am assuming so from this:


Yeah, I thought the same thing, but looking for definitive confirmation as I'm in the amp market now. Don't want to hesitate and delay my decision if it's not necessary.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

I wondered why my DQXS and DQS had input and output controls.
I could have my gains a zero on the amps and had no noise at all contrary to other processors hehe.


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> Yeah, I thought the same thing, but looking for definitive confirmation as I'm in the amp market now. Don't want to hesitate and delay my decision if it's not necessary.


Real G's don't hesitate, they regulate.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

OSN said:


> Real G's don't hesitate, they regulate.


What if the amp is non-regulated?


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

then you'll have to 'mount up'...

It was a clear black night, a clear white moon...


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> No, it doesn't make the same power at 8 ohms. 8 ohms is a big fat waste, unless you have an 8-ohm driver that is way more efficient.


Or unless you have an 8-ohm driver whose characteristics are extremely suitable to your application and there's no 4-ohm version of the driver.


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> What if the amp is non-regulated?


Dog, if you need an amp to regulate things for you, you ain't a G.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

MarkZ said:


> jesus, you guys are doing things right these days.


My thoughts exactly. While ideally for me it would be shaped a little differently (~6" wide on the non-connector sides, could be a bit longer) JBL is on a friggin' role right now. Excellent subs as always, the best processor currently on the market, pretty darned good mains, and now they're making a bid to steal the smallest powerful Class D amp footprint title (likely and hopefully only temporarily, but still) that's currently held by Kenwood.

My hat's off to you, Andy. 

But seriously, what's next? W15GTi performance in a sub that's 4" deep? 



jonnyanalog said:


> I glad someone s really taking a good, hard look at functionality and interface. These are truly break through products.


Agreed. I'm going to hold off on any thoughts of amp changes until these babies come out.



Andy Wehmeyer said:


> No, it doesn't make the same power at 8 ohms. 8 ohms is a big fat waste, unless you have an 8-ohm driver that is way more efficient.


Regardless, there are many drivers with excellent non-linear distortion performance (_linear_ distortion having become basically irrelevant due to processors such as the MS-8) that happen to have 8Ω coils. Many of which are already installed in our cars. 

Given that 4Ω and 2Ω power is the same, am I correct in surmising that power at 8Ω is likely to be not _that_ much lower? Something like 60-70wpc?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> Yeah, I thought the same thing, but looking for definitive confirmation as I'm in the amp market now. Don't want to hesitate and delay my decision if it's not necessary.


They're all handled with the RCA inputs. We provide really cool adapters in the box.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> My thoughts exactly. Given that 4Ω and 2Ω power is the same, am I correct in surmising that power at 8Ω is likely to be not _that_ much lower? Something like 60-70wpc?


Less than 3dB difference. How about them apples? If you're choosing a driver because of a bunch of considerations other than impedance and you know that car amps aren't designed to make max power at 8 ohms, then you've already made the choice and prioritized those speaker considerations over the cost of amplification for a given output level. 

These amps make less power into 8 ohms, like almost every other car audio amp. Sorry, dude.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

bikinpunk said:


> then you'll have to 'mount up'...
> 
> It was a clear black night, a clear white moon...


Who's playing Nate Dogg?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

OSN said:


> Dog, if you need an amp to regulate things for you, you ain't a G.


Good observation!

May need to take a "G" refresher course in order to maintain my G-ism.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> No, it doesn't take the load into account. This input sensitivity setting procedure sets the voltage input to the *DAC* for maximum resolution and minimum noise. There's an output level control for setting the output level.


ADC?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> thanks for the reply, Andy.
> 
> I didn't realize it incorporates 2 controls: input and output. Never seen that done. That's nice.
> 
> Looks like you guys definately have done your homework.


Zapco DPN.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Zapco DPN.


X2.

I'm hoping that these work great, and am looking forward to them. 

I wish that the DSP had been used for more (DPN-style). I figure that would have been seen as a competitor for the MS-8, but so?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

t3sn4f2 said:


> ADC?


Yes. Oops.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

VP Electricity said:


> X2.
> 
> I'm hoping that these work great, and am looking forward to them.
> 
> I wish that the DSP had been used for more (DPN-style). I figure that would have been seen as a competitor for the MS-8, but so?


 
The idea was that we would make all settings viewable all the time, make the controls precise, make setup simple and provide controls that installers could use easily instead of the standard imprecise pots and switches and charge a reasonable price for them. These aren't the same animal as a Focal Dual Monitor and they aren't intended to be. They're intended to be way cool mainstream amps that make installation easy.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Andy,

I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but real "G"s prefer more difficult installs in order to keep their "G" certification.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> Andy,
> 
> I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but real "G"s prefer more difficult installs in order to keep their "G" certification.


Yes, I know. I'm a "G" but I have to make products that can be sold to Gs and non-Gs. I try to strike a balance, which I know breaks the G code.


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## Audio_Images (Jun 21, 2010)

So how much diff is there if any in the OS stuff vs the new?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Yes, I know. I'm a "G" but I have to make products that can be sold to Gs and non-Gs. I try to strike a balance, which I know breaks the G code.


May need to make some changes to the G- code. I'll confer with the G council and get back to you.

In the meantime, are you aware of amplifier porting for max portage?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Audio_Images said:


> So how much diff is there if any in the OS stuff vs the new?


I don't know what this means. I'm sorry. Can you explain?


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

I think he's asking if the MS-series amps do anything different from old school JBL amps. :laugh:


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## vidizzle (May 30, 2008)

any pics ? as i cant seem to find anything online except for the ms8 :s


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## Audio_Images (Jun 21, 2010)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> I don't know what this means. I'm sorry. Can you explain?


I am asking if there are real differences from the old school stuff and the newer? Where is the technology with H.I. now? I already know where the home stuff is, but dont know about car for H.I.


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## Audio_Images (Jun 21, 2010)

MarkZ said:


> I think he's asking if the MS-series amps do anything different from old school JBL amps. :laugh:


Well not just JBL, the old stuff post Infinity when they got it, the CA HK series, etc.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

vidizzle said:


> any pics ? as i cant seem to find anything online except for the ms8 :s


Ohh man... Did you at least read the thread? There's a pic of the amp on the 1st page. 

Kelvin


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Audio_Images said:


> Well not just JBL, the old stuff post Infinity when they got it, the CA HK series, etc.


Did you ever see this level of processing on the old amps, or the ultra small size, or being class D?

I've been wondering myself if there are differences between a 1992 Cadillac and a 2010 model.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

Audio_Images said:


> Well not just JBL, the old stuff post Infinity when they got it, the CA HK series, etc.


This question screams that you haven't read the thread. Please read.


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## Audio_Images (Jun 21, 2010)

lol I wasnt asking you... and no it does not compare anywhere. I read about the volts and the MS-8 comparables, and dimensions etc... that isn't my question. The old school infinity class D comparatives etc.


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

Seems like time alignment would make this perfect. My only real complaint about the Zapco's is the size, and these obviously have that covered...


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Yes, I know. I'm a "G" but I have to make products that can be sold to Gs and non-Gs. I try to strike a balance, which I know breaks the G code.


This is possibly the best post ever, i've been around a long time and have to give props when its due.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

What will pricing be on the two units?

When the 4 channel is bridged will it put out 200X2?


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

So will we see these in Australia Andy?

As so far several people in Australia have tried to contact Convoy (Aus importer) about getting hold of a MS-8 or some details about release date etc.. and have had the wonderful response of "MS-8 whats that..never heard of it" and this is after being biounced from person person to eventually find someone who may know, one person who is actually well known within the industry was given the CEO's number and email and after sending off an email and leaving a couple messages of which none have been responded to has quite simple given up on JBL Australia making any effort. They apparently don't even have a marketing manger for the Car Audio range anymore, the JBL car range has essentially been left to rot by them

The end result is all those who have attempted to source an MS-8 through official channels have given up and are now just importing directly.


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

Luke352 said:


> So will we see these in Australia Andy?
> 
> As so far several people in Australia have tried to contact Convoy (Aus importer) about getting hold of a MS-8 or some details about release date etc.. and have had the wonderful response of "MS-8 whats that..never heard of it" and this is after being biounced from person person to eventually find someone who may know, one person who is actually well known within the industry was given the CEO's number and email and after sending off an email and leaving a couple messages of which none have been responded to has quite simple given up on JBL Australia making any effort. They apparently don't even have a marketing manger for the Car Audio range anymore, the JBL car range has essentially been left to rot by them
> 
> The end result is all those who have attempted to source an MS-8 through official channels have given up and are now just importing directly.


Now that the MS8 is actually on the JBL website, if someone on the phone doesn't know what it is at least you can directly refer them to their own website. I remember the same crap when calling Verizon when they were first rolling out FIOS. "fy-bur? what is that? would you like to order out high speed dsl?"


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

Since the stereo output is 100W into either 2 or 4 ohms, would it be correct to say that the bridged mono output is 200W into either 4 or 8 ohms?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

JoeHemi57 said:


> This is possibly the best post ever, i've been around a long time and have to give props when its due.


Yeah, Andy has easily taken the spot as the most quotable person on the forum. And with this crowd, that's saying something.


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

Audio_Images said:


> lol I wasnt asking you... and no it does not compare anywhere. I read about the volts and the MS-8 comparables, and dimensions etc... that isn't my question. The old school infinity class D comparatives etc.


Wow.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

The lol at the beginning makes it not an attack.


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## Knobby Digital (Aug 17, 2008)

Must be a family thing to use "comparable" as a noun.


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

kkant said:


> Since the stereo output is 100W into either 2 or 4 ohms, would it be correct to say that the bridged mono output is 200W into either 4 or 8 ohms?


I really need to know bridged output myself so i can decide if i want to wait on these, msrp would be great too.


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

Bringing this one back from the depths for this tasty morsel of electronic goodness.
http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Owner%27s%20Manual/MS-A1004_OM.pdf

It keeps telling the server is busy for the MS-A5001. 

Enjoy. It also looks like they are available for preorder too.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

jonnyanalog said:


> Bringing this one back from the depths for this tasty morsel of electronic goodness.
> http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Owner%27s%20Manual/MS-A1004_OM.pdf
> 
> It keeps telling the server is busy for the MS-A5001.
> ...


Interesting.

Where are you seeing pre-order information from?


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## D1g1tal V3n0m (Dec 24, 2008)

I am curious as to the price on these. I recently though went to a Arc 900.6 so I could have a all in one solution.


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

jonnyanalog said:


> Bringing this one back from the depths for this tasty morsel of electronic goodness.
> http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Owner%27s%20Manual/MS-A1004_OM.pdf


Thanks. I found the following there:

100W RMS x 4 channels @ 4 ohms
100 W RMS x 4 channels @ 2 ohms
200 W RMS x 2 channels *@ 2 ohms*

A typo?


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

D1g1tal V3n0m said:


> I am curious as to the price on these. I recently though went to a Arc 900.6 so I could have a all in one solution.


Crutchfield has both models listed @ $549.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

kkant said:


> Thanks. I found the following there:
> 
> 100W RMS x 4 channels @ 4 ohms
> 100 W RMS x 4 channels @ 2 ohms
> ...


I noticed that too. That doesn't seem right, but then again I think all their components are 2 ohm nominal.


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

Harmon has them on their site as well for $549 shipped.


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## kelrog (Apr 11, 2009)

They put the MS-A1004 on the cover of the latest Crutchfield mag (aug/sep 2010). Sad thing is that they put it on page 47, of 52. And the blurb is tiny. Least there is a sub version. 

MS-A1004 100w x 4 @ 2 or 4 ohms - $549.99
MS-A5001 500w x 1 @ 2 or 4 ohms - $549.99

Check the links for more photos! 

Any chance of a bigger mono coming out?


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## glidn (Apr 21, 2007)

very nice looking amps with some nice features.
But surely having only 8 Gauge power input are a bit on the small side?


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

I think they know what they're doing.


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## Russell Bell (Jul 24, 2010)

subscribed


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## billymonter (Apr 15, 2009)

I wish JBL would come up with a single amp to take care of the MS-8 outputs. I would suggest 4 [email protected] + 3 [email protected] + [email protected] I've been racking my brain trying to come up with the right combination for my setup*. I would then use that single amp to send 4 channels to front mid bases and mids/tweets, the other 3 for center and rears and the last for sub. Hey I would even compromise with a 4-50 + a 3-100+1-300. No processing above and beyond what the MS8 provides would be needed. Hey if JBL thought 8 internal channels at 20 watts per channel was a good idea, mine is a prize winner.

Andy?

*My current "proposed" setup is an alpine pdx 5 + a pdx 4 which wastes 1 channel and really bothers me.


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

glidn said:


> very nice looking amps with some nice features.
> But surely having only 8 Gauge power input are a bit on the small side?


Being class d amps they probably don't draw nearly the current a more conventional class a/b does. 


The question that has been weighing on my mind is what does the "MS" stand for? Is it stand for "mystery science amp 1004?"


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

Mobile Synthesis. 

Synthesis is a term JBL uses for flagship products.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

If Andy is any indication of where JBL as a company is moving, and obviously he would be, then I don't think these sorts of mega-power systems are where their focus is. He's extolled the virtues of efficiency, of multi-speaker setups, and low impedances for quite some time. 100x4 is probably 5 times as much power as he runs himself. These latest offerings of theirs seem to be focusing on elaborate processing for multiple full range speaker systems. They also seem to be marketing some products that can be used in low power stock systems. Their equipment may not be for everybody.

Before Andy came along, this board was mostly about "use as few speakers as you possibly can". Now people are starting to think about alternative approaches. I'm not saying either way is right or wrong. But I do like that people are actually considering different things these days (in a DIY forum, no less ).


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

billymonter said:


> *My current "proposed" setup is an alpine pdx 5 + a pdx 4 which wastes 1 channel and really bothers me.




That's why I decided to brdge channels on mine. 
JL 900/5 HD powering sub (500x1), rears (100x2, 4" and 1" passive), and center (150x1, 4" and 1" passive)
JL 600/6 HD powering doors (4" and 1" passive) and midbasses (150x4) 

And no left over channels. That bothered me as well.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

These babys just showed up on my accomodations list!!!! Although it says available in Aug? Few days left before that is out dated!
Might have to give a few of them a try!


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

My distributor said any day now for them too.


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## Yuck. (Dec 28, 2009)

rexroadj said:


> These babys just showed up on my accomodations list!!!! Although it says available in Aug? Few days left before that is out dated!
> Might have to give a few of them a try!


Yea, I saw that last week. The MS-8 took a little while to pop on on there, but the amps showed up before they're even really avaliable, lol


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I had a good month or two notice on the ms-8


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## Yuck. (Dec 28, 2009)

Bumpin dis here for updates, and people who've tried them


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

No one has tried them. I won't have them until the end of October.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

They've got a few in the outlet section at Crutchfield.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

They say they do...but my distributor says not shipping until end of October.


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## MikeF (Aug 21, 2010)

So ... if one was starting from scratch and intending to do an install for a 2010 Acura TL with the Tech Package (ELS surround), I assume I'd be talking about 2 MS-A1004's and a single MS-A5001 being fed by the MS-8?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

MikeF said:


> So ... if one was starting from scratch and intending to do an install for a 2010 Acura TL with the Tech Package (ELS surround), I assume I'd be talking about 2 MS-A1004's and a single MS-A5001 being fed by the MS-8?


What is the speaker layout in that car? Will you be using that layout of adding more locations? What type of setup are you planning (ie stereo, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1,.......)? Are you planning on bridging any of the amp channels?


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## MikeF (Aug 21, 2010)

The factory configuration is a 10 speaker 5.1 surround ... tweeters in the A-pillar ... full range (I believe) in the front and back doors ... two on the rear shelf ... center and a sub. Believe this gives me a good starting point to take advantage of everything the MS-8 has to offer for the 5.1 or 7.1. Probably use all stock locations except the sub which is also mounted on the rear shelf.


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## MikeF (Aug 21, 2010)

Never mind ... saw the answer in the MS-8 manual. Thanks for your input.


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## redsun (Sep 2, 2010)

anybody gotten their ms amps yet?


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

Andy -- in the MS8 thread you had posted power output numbers for the MS-A1004:

"The specs for the 4-channel amp is 100 x 4 @ 4 ohms, 175 x 4 @ 2 ohms and 350 x 2 bridged into 4 ohms.

Most samples do about 120 x 4 @ 4, 190 x 4 @ 2 and about 380 x 2 bridged into 4. "

Link to the post:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1000504-post2082.html

The MS-A manual says the power output is:
100 W RMS x 4 channels @ 4 ohms
100 W RMS x 4 channels @ 2 ohms
200 W RMS x 2 channels @ 2 ohms

This doesn't make much sense to me, for several reasons...like, the amp stable to 2 ohms bridged but not stable to 1 ohm stereo. This is from page 14 (last page) of the manual. Which is correct, your post or the manual?

Link to the manual:
http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Owner's Manual/MS-A1004_OM.pdf


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## King Krab (Aug 19, 2010)

AAAAAAA said:


> How about 8ohm power?



very dumb question... dumbass.


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## King Krab (Aug 19, 2010)

bad ass amps... since their class d, wonder if they will sound as good or better than the leviathan


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## MattyKHZ (Jan 11, 2010)

Still no news? Thinking of dropping my Denon DCA7602BL amps for smaller Class D amps that will fit in my mini better so PDX-F6 or theese?


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

the new version of the 4 channel should be released in may with the mono being shortly after that.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

nineball said:


> the new version of the 4 channel should be released in may with the mono being shortly after that.


Are you saying the first version won't even be released?


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

fish said:


> Are you saying the first version won't even be released?


nope, never said any such thing. the ms series amps have the ability to use a remote turn on lead OR use signal sensing to turn on. the first released versions had a problem with the signal sensing in that you had to crank up the volume to near max to get a large enough audio signal to turn on the amp (via rca). this wasn't a problem if you used the conventional remote turn on lead from a hu, so it really didn't affect anything seriously on the amps. you can still buy this version from crutchfield (or anyone else who currently has one for sale) and use it with no problems other than above.


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I will have to use the remote turn on input. Bummer.


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## ACRucrazy (Mar 13, 2007)

nineball said:


> the new version of the 4 channel should be released in may with the mono being shortly after that.






nineball said:


> nope, never said any such thing. the ms series amps have the ability to use a remote turn on lead OR use signal sensing to turn on. the first released versions had a problem with the signal sensing in that you had to crank up the volume to near max to get a large enough audio signal to turn on the amp (via rca). this wasn't a problem if you used the conventional remote turn on lead from a hu, so it really didn't affect anything seriously on the amps. you can still buy this version from crutchfield (or anyone else who currently has one for sale) and use it with no problems other than above.


This was my finding as of today. I noticed they were not on JBLs website and during a google search it looked liked Crutchfield was the only place to have these amps.

I was wondering if they were discontinued, if they were pulled for an issue or if there was a newer model on its way. Which lead me to this old thread looking for info.

Thanks.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

King Krab said:


> very dumb question... dumbass.


huh... Why the name calling?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Sorry for the delay. We cleared the last circuit modification yesterday. Working on a production and shipping schedule now.


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## bhaycraft (Apr 20, 2010)

So still a couple of months I guess.


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

Will it have the same power output specs as the previous model?


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## blownrunner (Feb 10, 2009)

Too bad they aren't available for Spring Break. Still... can't wait to see how well competitors do now that the MS-8 is out. A few of the competitors should be using them by now.


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## ppower (Apr 8, 2011)

Anxiously awaiting these amps to go along with my MS-8. How's the schedule coming along?


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## rjg (Mar 6, 2007)

Is the manual posted for these somewhere?

*Nevermind:* It appears I missed the tab on their site with a link to it.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

edit.....I was completely incorrect!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Look at the specs again. The MS amps "processing" is only for the crossover point and slope. There is no eq,T/A, etc in them. They're not redundant.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

My bad....I thought for sure I read somewhere that they were full DSP similar to the kenwoods/kicker? 
I lost interest in these a LONG time ago so I must have forgotten, 
Thank you for the correction.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

rexroadj said:


> My bad....I thought for sure I read somewhere that they were full DSP similar to the kenwoods/kicker?
> I lost interest in these a LONG time ago so I must have forgotten,
> Thank you for the correction.


Actually thought the same... When I heard DSP Amp from JBL, I imagined DC Ref from Zapco too  

Ohh well, at least that could be the add-on device for people needing active use between mids and tweets when using the MS-8 in a 3way fronts+2 rears+1 center+1 sub... 

Kelvin


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

subwoofery said:


> Actually thought the same... When I heard DSP Amp from JBL, I imagined DC Ref from Zapco too
> 
> Ohh well, at least that could be the add-on device for people needing active use between mids and tweets when using the MS-8 in a 3way fronts+2 rears+1 center+1 sub...
> 
> Kelvin


Yeah....I guess it would be helpful for those that feel they need 3way active front stage, active rears, and active center WITH an MS-8 

Dont see the point personally, but for those that do, it certainly makes a nice option and covers all scenerios very well!


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## kkant (Feb 3, 2008)

rexroadj said:


> Yeah....I guess it would be helpful for those that feel they need 3way active front stage, active rears, and active center WITH an MS-8


<raises hand>

Actually, now that I have learned about MiniDSP, I have less need for the MS-A amps. Mini-DSP + some other more powerful amp > MS-A. So my current solution is MS-8 -> balanced minidsp's -> JL HD600's


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## blownrunner (Feb 10, 2009)

For me, I was thinking of swapping out amps to class D because of their efficiency, smaller size, and the power output compared to AB amps. I have been comparing ARC, Infinity, JBL, JL, Kenwood, Pioneer, and Alpine as possible contenders while I awaiting the JBL's to be released. One thing that I am curious about is THD and S/N ratio. Looking at the JL, the THD is much lower and the S/N is 110, and only requires a 50 amps fuse while being able to be bridged and providing 300 watts/channel. The ARC class D puts out a lower THD except for the JL, putting it is 2nd, if you will.

Just how important is it to have a S/N ratio above 80 and a THD lower than .1%? What about power? Is 300 watts/ch that big a difference over 200? The JL costs more, but as a competitor you want to get the best you can with the money you have and the space in the vehicle.

I was talking to Andy over SBN who recommended the JBL over the infinity Kappa even though the Infinity had substantially more power due to the JBL having better crossovers and processing, which is why I am considering the JL.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

blownrunner said:


> For me, I was thinking of swapping out amps to class D because of their efficiency, smaller size, and the power output compared to AB amps. I have been comparing ARC, Infinity, JBL, JL, Kenwood, Pioneer, and Alpine as possible contenders while I awaiting the JBL's to be released. One thing that I am curious about is THD and S/N ratio. Looking at the JL, the THD is much lower and the S/N is 110, and only requires a 50 amps fuse while being able to be bridged and providing 300 watts/channel. The ARC class D puts out a lower THD except for the JL, putting it is 2nd, if you will.
> 
> Just how important is it to have a S/N ratio above 80 and a THD lower than .1%? What about power? Is 300 watts/ch that big a difference over 200? The JL costs more, but as a competitor you want to get the best you can with the money you have and the space in the vehicle.
> 
> I was talking to Andy over SBN who recommended the JBL over the infinity Kappa even though the Infinity had substantially more power due to the JBL having better crossovers and processing, which is why I am considering the JL.


I wouldn't worry about the THD figures... Unless you buy a fleamarket kind of amp, your speakers will put out much more distorsion than the amp. 
What I would worry about is noise floor. The spec that shows that is S/N ratio. HOWEVER, try to read as much as you can about amp choices. Some manufacturer states 100dB, but in reality it's much lower. As an eg., I've read the XXD amps from arc have awful noise floor - same thing for Alpine PDx first gen. 

Here's my post that shows the difference between the Old PDx, the HD and the new PDx: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1062094-post20.html

From the same magazine, S/N ratio for: (only class D amps)
JL Audio XD 400/4 = 99dB 
JL Audio XD 600/6 = 97dB
Pioneer PRS-D 420 = 91dB 
Kenwood X4R = 84dB 
Alpine PDx5 = 84dB
Pioneer PRS-D 400 = 79dB 

Kelvin


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## blownrunner (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks, Sir, for the reply. One of the reasons I was holding back from the JL is that when I worked as Operations for a local audio store is that we were getting a substantial amount of JL HD amp failures, even right out of the box in the install bay. Keep in mind, the store sold a lot of JL, but I was doing return authorizations for them all the time. I even called the gen manager a week ago whom has one in his truck and two channels just went out on his.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

blownrunner said:


> For me, I was thinking of swapping out amps to class D because of their efficiency, smaller size, and the power output compared to AB amps. I have been comparing ARC, Infinity, JBL, JL, Kenwood, Pioneer, and Alpine as possible contenders while I awaiting the JBL's to be released. One thing that I am curious about is THD and S/N ratio. Looking at the JL, the THD is much lower and the S/N is 110, and only requires a 50 amps fuse while being able to be bridged and providing 300 watts/channel. The ARC class D puts out a lower THD except for the JL, putting it is 2nd, if you will.
> 
> Just how important is it to have a S/N ratio above 80 and a THD lower than .1%? What about power? Is 300 watts/ch that big a difference over 200? The JL costs more, but as a competitor you want to get the best you can with the money you have and the space in the vehicle.
> 
> I was talking to Andy over SBN who recommended the JBL over the infinity Kappa even though the Infinity had substantially more power due to the JBL having better crossovers and processing, which is why I am considering the JL.


http://http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1317262-post5.html


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## blownrunner (Feb 10, 2009)

FYI, I believe the first wave of the JBL amps have arrived in he US. Places like Crutchfield received them first, but when i called they only had one left in stock. All that we need now if for someone who had gotten one to chime in and tell us how they perform.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

blownrunner said:


> FYI, I believe the first wave of the JBL amps have arrived in he US. Places like Crutchfield received them first, but when i called they only had one left in stock. All that we need now if for someone who had gotten one to chime in and tell us how they perform.


crutchfield has always had them available, but they were the first gen (if you want to call it that). today is the first time i have seem them back up on the jbl website for purchase so i am hopeful the trio of them i ordered back in october will be shipping soon.


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## blownrunner (Feb 10, 2009)

The local car audio shop says that the amps will be in his hands on June 6th or 7th. Looks like they are finally here!


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Yes, they're here. There will be a review in Performance Auto and Sound magazine next month.


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## blownrunner (Feb 10, 2009)

Andy, it would be nice to put reviews of JBL products on your website from magazines and whatnot. Other manufacturers do this and I believe it really provides insight to a greater depth than a column of specifications do.

At any rate, based my experience with the MS-8, I suspect the new amps will perform quite well.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

blownrunner said:


> Andy, it would be nice to put reviews of JBL products on your website from magazines and whatnot. Other manufacturers do this and I believe it really provides insight to a greater depth than a column of specifications do.
> 
> At any rate, based my experience with the MS-8, I suspect the new amps will perform quite well.



nice thought but let's concentrate on actually shipping out the amps instead of rebuilding the website. some of us have been waiting since october....


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## blownrunner (Feb 10, 2009)

nineball said:


> nice thought but let's concentrate on actually shipping out the amps instead of rebuilding the website. some of us have been waiting since october....


The wait is over, buddy. I picked up four of them for my install a week ago. I had them on order myself since last November, so the dealer had a higher priority on receiving them. He got a total of eight and they were all sold out on the 1st day!


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Please read the manual carefully--especially the first section so you'll know how to use these things. They operate differently from other amps. 

If you're using them with MS-8, set the input sensitivity switch on "low", turn the input sentitivity pot all the way down, set the outut level at about 50. Then do calibration and re-adjust ONLY the amps' output level--not the input level.

Finally, the amp writes the settings you enter to flash WHEN THE AMP TURNS OFF NORMALLY. Change the settings, and do what ever is necessary to make the "REM" lead go low to turn the amp off. If you remove power from B+ before turning the amp off normally, the settings obviously won't be saved.


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## Jsracing (Apr 1, 2011)

Wow these are interesting amps. I really like the front end flexibility. I wish there was a single amp setup to drive my system, like combine the 4 & 1 channels to make a 5 channel, and I could replace my JL XD700/5. I love the size too.


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## blownrunner (Feb 10, 2009)

Andy, I got the four amps installed, but I do not get output from one of them. I am able to set the input with the two pots and I get the check marks. I am running it bridged on both sets of outputs. The speakers connected to it work because I tried them on a different MS amp. The display and adjustments are working fine also and I have the outputs set on 65 without using the crossovers ...

The manual does not state any troubleshooting error codes or solutions to common problems, so I do not know where to go from here. How do i know if it is in protection mode? Thanks.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

hmmm.. i ordered 3 of them in oct/nov and so far they have only shipped the single mono i bought, not the pair of 4 channels. i wonder what gives?


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

here are some shots next to my pdx amp as a point of reference. sadly there is no point in installing the ONE new amp i have, forced to wait for his brothers to arrive.


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## blownrunner (Feb 10, 2009)

Very happy with these little guys. Got four of them installed, very powerful and easy to use.


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## JJDu4 (Jun 8, 2011)

Blownrunner

That's good to hear as I just got my 4 in last week. I've also got a MS-8 for this build. So powerwise your happy with them...?....how'd they compare to the PDX amps?


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

finally got my pair of 4 channels delivered yesterday. as soon as i finish my pods tomorrow i'll get to work on making a rack for them.


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## JJDu4 (Jun 8, 2011)

let me know what ya think of them once you get them playing........I've started on my truck but I'm doing the kick panels and the doors first. I got the JBL amps because I like the MS-8 and I like the specs and the look of them but all my speakers have turned out to be JL Audio and I've thought about using a JL XD600/6 and 2 XD600/1's instead to save space and for channel reasons.......but i'm torn.


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## blownrunner (Feb 10, 2009)

The amps are really great to use, and powerful. Very happy with them. I bought four. 
However...One was exchanged because it had no output out of the box... 

I have also started having a slow battery drain since installing them. I have a JBL MS-8, BP2200.1, four MS1004, an AudioControl Epicenter, and a line driver. All components draw .01 amps with the units turned off except for on of the new MS1004 amps, which draws about .25 of an amp. I think this is the cause of my discharging battery.

I might see if I can exchange the second one, wonder if they will do it?


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

damn, do i use the 4 and mono in my S2k or the kenwood xr5s single amp solution. ???? do NOT want to give up space if at all possible. the xr5s is a ROCKING tiny BEAST of an amp (got it in my GF's Cayenne, powering 2 sets of components and 2 12" and it's RIDICULOUS!) but the crossover is mediocre at best. .... anyplace to get a good deal on these? i'd love to try 'em out ... hmmm ...


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

blownrunner said:


> The amps are really great to use, and powerful. Very happy with them. I bought four.
> However...One was exchanged because it had no output out of the box...
> 
> I have also started having a slow battery drain since installing them. I have a JBL MS-8, BP2200.1, four MS1004, an AudioControl Epicenter, and a line driver. All components draw .01 amps with the units turned off except for on of the new MS1004 amps, which draws about .25 of an amp. I think this is the cause of my discharging battery.
> ...


What does the manual say the idle current draw is? If it's over that, it's defective. I'd take it back if it was me. .25A is WAY too high.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Yes, .25A is too high. We'll replace it no problem.


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## blownrunner (Feb 10, 2009)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Yes, .25A is too high. We'll replace it no problem.


I found out what was killing the battery: I also installed two new Stinger distribution/fuse blocks between the battery and the amplifiers. These fuse blocks have voltage and amp meters on them and are grounded. I disconnected the grounds on them and my dead battery problem went away. They apparently drew current after the display shut off. So these high dollar fuse blocks are collecting dust. I could sell them but that would be unethical.

Talk about weird problems!

I had another recent ongoing problem where I couldn't figure out why my MS-8 was shutting down uncommanded, which also turned off the amps connected to it. The MS-8 was even locking up the display after it turned back on. I half figured it out as the MS-8 not being the problem when Andy stated on the MS series amps thread that they had to be shut down normally to save the current settings. If you remove the power wire from the MS-8, any changes you make to it since it was last shut down normally would be lost. If you shut the MS-8 down normally using the remote input wire, your changes would be saved. So at that point I suspected something else weird was going on and the display locking up was from the rapid shut down turn on cycle. After many months of troubleshooting and even getting the MS-8 exchanged, I found it was an AudioControl Matrix line driver. It was every-so-often grounding the remote input, which was installed on the input side remote connection before the MS-8. Naturally the MS-8 would shut off and on but the head unit would still be playing. I have a 1 amps fuse on my remote wire, but it never blew. I suspect the remote wire did not have the amperage to turn everything on, but it maintained 12 volts when I had it connected to a multimeter. I was really pulling my hair out on this one. I finally figured it out when I would plug the quick disconnect plug into the Matrix (but it had to be unplugged for about a minute prior to let the internal capacitors to discharge) and the MS-8 would power up and then shut down along with my amps. I was using the remote wire as a ground through the MS-8!

This was by far the most difficult car audio problem I ever ran into.


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## JJDu4 (Jun 8, 2011)

Yea that sounded like a nightmare problem to find. I'm glad to hear it wasn't the MS-8 being problematic though.


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## JJDu4 (Jun 8, 2011)

Anymore updates on these amps.......surely someone else picked up a couple of these jewls......I'll post pics in the next day or so as I've got my amp rack built and it houses 2 MS-A5001's and 2 MS-A1004's next to my MS-8. Right now I'm running all JL speakers but I'm looking to change those in the very near future. The Mono Amps are gonna run a pair of JL 10W3's each and one 4 channel is gonna run a C5 5 1/4" component set in my kicks and a C5 6 1/2" component set in my rear doors. The last 4 channel is gonna be bridged stereo running a set of JL C5-653 3-Way Components in the front doors. I wanted to put a lil bit more power on the 3-way setup. 

Andy......is JBL working on any 3-way component sets for the near future?
Also if I decide to go all JBL what subs would compare to the JL 10W3's? I've got a pair of the MS 10's but I kinda thought that these may be geared toward the Entry Level Crowd. I was thinking the whole MS line was gonna be more of the SQ line but its kinda looking different with the MS subs and components. Correct me if I'm wrong because I am most of the time. haha.....anyway thanks for your help in these forums.....its great to have a factory rep that takes pride in the company they work for and their products.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

^Fors subs: WGTI. Some of the best subs on the market.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

The MS-Subs and speakers sound really good. Subs are pretty efficient and designed to play loud with 500 watts. Seriously, they're damn good. 

If cost is no object, go with the GTi stuff.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Guys, when you use MS-Amps along with MS-8, there's no need to use the MS-Amp setup CD. Set the input range switch to "Low" and turn the input level control all the way down. Then, set the output level control to somewhere between 40 and 60. Turn off the system to save your amp settings. Turn it back on, configure and calibrate MS-8 the regular way.

Then, if you decide you need more output, turn all the amplifiers output level control up by exactly the same amount. The output level control has 80 steps. Those .5 dB steps and provide attenuation down to -40dB.

Oh, also, when you use MS-Amps with MS-8, there's no need for the wireless bass control. It's the same filter that's in the MS-8 for the sub level control.


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## JJDu4 (Jun 8, 2011)

Andy just kinda curious but would you consider the MS line of amps JBL's higher end? Also would it be true to say that the wireless bass knob could be used as a quick alternative to the ms-8 bass control. Or would It cause conflict?


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

I imagine Andy would certainly classify them as such, as would I.

A little constructive criticism.. The US JBL website needs some love. Though visually it's nicer than the old site, it acts like a broken retailer site. To put it short, for product lookup, it's borked. Appears I'm on the "beta" site so I imagine it's a work in-progress, to be fair.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

JJDu4 said:


> Andy just kinda curious but would you consider the MS line of amps JBL's higher end? Also would it be true to say that the wireless bass knob could be used as a quick alternative to the ms-8 bass control. Or would It cause conflict?


 
Can you use both? Of course, do I recommend it? No.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Yes, those are our higher-end amps, but high end is a little different here at JBL. We don't paint stuff gold, claim to sort transistors and bark like dogs about damping factor in the interest of claiming high-end. Why? Because it's BS. Giving you good digital tools to make proper setup easy is higher-end than a big fat lie, no matter how the lie might make you feel.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Yes, those are our higher-end amps, but high end is a little different here at JBL. We don't paint stuff gold, claim to sort transistors and bark like dogs about damping factor in the interest of claiming high-end. Why? Because it's BS. Giving you good digital tools to make proper setup easy is higher-end than a big fat lie, no matter how the lie might make you feel.


:thumbsup: 

Kelvin


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Andy, to get back to a question asked earlier.....although not amp related....

3way comp sets..... I know for a short period of time a while back the website showed a power series 3way setup...... They disapeared equally fast.....What was up with that set? Did they exist, will they exist, different market????? Just curious as it seamed like a sick 3way budget setup that I cant imagine would rule the budget friendly crowd!!!


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## JJDu4 (Jun 8, 2011)

Here's a little shot of my JBL MS series amps along with my MS-8.


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## Danco1985 (Aug 30, 2011)

Will one 1000.4 be enough to power my morel hybrid ovation II 6 fronts?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

JJDu4 said:


> Here's a little shot of my JBL MS series amps along with my MS-8.


 
Cool.


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

Danco1985 said:


> Will one 1000.4 be enough to power my morel hybrid ovation II 6 fronts?




The four channel will do 200 x 2. Should be fine.


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## JJDu4 (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm gonna run one 4-channel on just my front door 3-way setup at 200x1 then the 2nd one on my front kick panel components and my rear door 6 1/2 component set in standard 4-channel mode. The 2 MS-A5001's are gonna power a pair of JL 10W3's each.

Obtw nineball...did you get your amps installed and if so what's your thoughts?


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## Danco1985 (Aug 30, 2011)

Anyone run these amps?


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## 4thDoctorWhoFan (May 18, 2012)

Will the DSP on the MS-amps be able to correct for bass rolloff from a factory installed system like the MS8 is capable of doing?

Also, since both the MS-amps and the MS8 have digital crossover abilities, which units crossover would you use? Would you use the crossover in the MS8 and set the MS-amps for full range out or set the MS8 for full range out and use the crossover in the MS-amps?

Thanks!


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

i run the amps full range and let the ms8 do it's job.


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## 4thDoctorWhoFan (May 18, 2012)

nineball said:


> i run the amps full range and let the ms8 do it's job.


Thanks for the quick reply. 
Do you know if the MS-amps are capable of correcting for bass rolloff from factory systems like the MS8 can?


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## nineball (Jan 17, 2008)

the amps are just amps, not processors. they have a great interface and active crossovers but they are not the same thing as an ms8.


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## david in germany (Oct 7, 2009)

bumping so i can find this thread.


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## hykhleif (Feb 10, 2014)

guys hello 

I have the following setup:

1- JBL msa1004 connected to 4 focal k2power speaker
2- rockford fosgate prime connected to a pioneer 1400 sub
3- alpine 134BT

I was wondering I think I am not running it correctly as I feel there are some issues with sound quality

So I have the following questions:

1- Is it better to control the the HPF from my alpine or from the JBL amp, note the alpine does not have separate front and back HPF, it just has HPF without the ability to chose between rear and front speakers

2- When I tune the amp with the cd, does it make any difference if the HPF and out level are set. Or should I first put the HPF on the jbl to off and then tune

3- will I get a better sound if I connect the pioneer sub to the JBL instead of the rear speakers, so that my system will be alpine---2 focal speakers---pioneer sub ---jbl amp, and get rid of both the rockford amp and the rear focal speakers

4- what is the preferred HPF setting on JBL for focal k2power speakers

5- on my focal speakers, the crossover is set at -6, and flat is that recommended

6- on my jbl i noticed something showing -6db,-12,-24 db what do these do, and what is best for my focal speakers

7- also in the tunning what is the sen on or sen off and what do I set it to


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## david in germany (Oct 7, 2009)

Sen is for turn on. If it is on it picks up signal from the RCA input to turn on the amp. You REALLY need to read the manual. The set up on these amps is quite difficult if you don't read it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Sparrow (Mar 6, 2014)

david in germany said:


> Sen is for turn on. If it is on it picks up signal from the RCA input to turn on the amp. You REALLY need to read the manual. The set up on these amps is quite difficult if you don't read it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Out of curiosity, does the signal sen turn on work? Typically, in my experience, signal sensing turn on does not always work correctly, especially if your receiver is at a lower volume level when you turn it on.

In my previous car, my Alpine processor would not turn on but running a turn-on lead solved this issue.
I guess one could always test it before putting interior panels back together


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## pjf1fan (Jul 29, 2011)

I would like to know what is the real world output power of the MS-a5001


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

About 800 watts @ 2 ohms.


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## pjf1fan (Jul 29, 2011)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> About 800 watts @ 2 ohms.


Wow, I'm in on that. Unless the GTO-1001EZ sounds better, draws less power and/or stays cooler I will pick up the MS amp.


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## david in germany (Oct 7, 2009)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> About 800 watts @ 2 ohms.


No it isn't, it is only 500w. . Too bad it isn't stable at 1ohm. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## pjf1fan (Jul 29, 2011)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> About 800 watts @ 2 ohms.


It's rated at 500 Watts at 4 or 2 ohms, is it really capable of a clean 800 Watts? If so, it is well under rated and very much a hot buy. I am looking at this amp or the PPI Phantom 1000 Watt to run my two 12" Boston Acoustics subwoofers.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Guys, when you use MS-Amps along with MS-8, there's no need to use the MS-Amp setup CD. *Set the input range switch to "Low" and turn the input level control all the way down. Then, set the output level control to somewhere between 40 and 60.* Turn off the system to save your amp settings. Turn it back on, configure and calibrate MS-8 the regular way.
> 
> Then, if you decide you need more output, turn all the amplifiers output level control up by exactly the same amount. The output level control has 80 steps. Those .5 dB steps and provide attenuation down to -40dB.
> 
> Oh, also, when you use MS-Amps with MS-8, there's no need for the wireless bass control. It's the same filter that's in the MS-8 for the sub level control.


_I'm a newb to many technical aspects of audio equipment so there could be something i'm missing but... _
*
I really don't understand why this amplifier has both a input level, and a output level control. I don't understand the point of having both. *

Doesn't the output control simple restrict/lower the power of the amp? In effect making a 100 watt per channel amp, a 90, 80, or ____ watt per channel amp by turning down the power. if this is correct why would i want less power from a amp? 

It seems to me that i would always want one of the 2 controls at max output level, and simply use the other (input sensitivity or output level ) to set the gain ... kind of how described by Andy for when using with the MS-8


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

The input sensitivity sets the voltage going to the A/D convertor and the output level control sets the amplifier's gain. That allows you to maximize the resolution of the signal, minimize noise and gives you full control of the gain independent of those other two.


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## tbomb (Nov 28, 2007)

I just want to say how great it is that Andy still participates in questions/threads redarding JBL products. Clear indication of his character. I am currently running Ms8 with the MS-5001 so I value his continued input. Still need to get door speakers installed and make decision regarding which JBL subs to run, but thats a different thread!


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> The input sensitivity sets the voltage going to the A/D convertor and the output level control sets the amplifier's gain. That allows you to maximize the resolution of the signal, minimize noise and gives you full control of the gain independent of those other two.



Makes you wonder why processors like the MS-8 do this but about all amps still require manual gain matching. Cost I suppose.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

tbomb said:


> I just want to say how great it is that Andy still participates in questions/threads redarding JBL products. Clear indication of his character. I am currently running Ms8 with the MS-5001 so I value his continued input. Still need to get door speakers installed and make decision regarding which JBL subs to run, but thats a different thread!


Yeah really. 

I look forward to seeing his Audio Frog Amplifiers.


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## c_nitty (May 17, 2010)

I see a few JBL MS-A1004 for sale are they not that good?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

The manual is not so great and clear, the amp is not easy to set up either. I had to set the gains several times to get the power correctly.

I have the MS 1004 
Nowhere in the manual I saw or read that the output gains had to do with with proper voltage and gains settings. I had to set my volume at 3/4 to get the right volume and not having to turn it all the way up and still not be loud enough or just loud enough but with weak sound. Once I used the disc and just turned the HU vol to 3/4 instead of max as the manual says, it made a world of difference not only on volume but also in SQ.

Now that I know this I am going to have to double check it and reset it with the output gains at lower numbers.

I have mine in a 3 way configuration, front channels and bridged channels 3 and 4 for a mono signal driving a ported 8" sub.

The only issue I have now is driving the sub with the amps mono mode and using the JBL's DSP setting a bandpass for my ported 8 sub.

I disabled the HU's sub's LPF (off) , set up the MS1004 amp's DSP to drive the sub using nothing but the amps DSP with the HPF at 25-35Hz, 12db slope, also tried 6db and 24db, 12db was better .

Tried the LP for a bandpass for the sub at everything,80.100,120,140,150. different slopes too matching the HP, Nothing

The bass was horrible, weak, hollow, loose , should I keep describing it? I simple could not get the DSP to have good bass seting the band pass for the sub trying all those frequencies and slopes available, some differences were heard but none worth keeping or giving even mediocre results.

The real kick ass bass and only way to hear it was using the HU's LP at 55Hz ( my Hu has only 3 sub LP settings 120Hz, 85Hz and 55Hz) all the HU LP settings gave me clear waay better bass than all the possible settings possible with the MS amp's DSP, I only left the HP on the JBL amp at 30-35 Hz just to use is as a subsonic filter for my ported sub box. The HU sub's phase gave a different effect and I could leave with either one of them, one bringing the bass to the front.

This gave me the best bass (using the HU's LP) although I know I have a hole in the frequency spectrum, I just compensate with the EQ for now. It is not bad, I just wonder why the amp's DSP can not provide better bass for my sub.

I am sure I am missing something or my HU simply will not allow the MS amp to play bass or allow the amps DSP settings to work the way they should.

Any thoughts?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

^^ The MS-A1004 also has a 55Hz LP filter setting. It sounds to me like the difference isn't in the amplifier's DSP or quality, but in the amount of midbass you've eliminated from the output of the subwoofer using the 55Hz filter.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> ^^ The MS-A1004 also has a 55Hz LP filter setting. It sounds to me like the difference isn't in the amplifier's DSP or quality, but in the amount of midbass you've eliminated from the output of the subwoofer using the 55Hz filter.



Thanks for trying to help, oops I forgot to mention that's while having the head units sub LP OFF I also tried from 80hz down to 40hz (all and different slopes) or as low it would let me go, since the Amps HPF limits the LP to 10hz above the Hp as it describes on the manual (band pass) and still I could not match or even get the bass I got using the HU's LP there was no comparison and tried different slopes too. Having the amps output level to max (80) I also tried a sealed shallow 10" box I have, maybe for being a 10" and sealed a minor marginal improvement but not the tight midbass and chest pounding bass I get using the HU LP at 55hz and amps LP off.

The only thing I did not try was increasing the HU's sub level (mine goes from 0-8) I have it at 5. Not sure if that may help trigger the amp's DSP processing and it will make it have the impact it should have. I will keep trying and report once I correct it, unless any other thoughts come to mind, it could be the amp gains and relation between the output gain for the processing to kick in as you mentioned before.

Thanks


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

A MS-WBC would probably sound great.


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## tbomb (Nov 28, 2007)

I havent had any of those issues. Of course im using the monoblock. You descrube it as hard to setup and having poor manual, but then you say when you finally followed the instructions it worked? Maybe there is something else weve missed? Im running mine off of ms8 but it worked the same without it. Something had to get skipped, or it truly is faulty.


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## tbomb (Nov 28, 2007)

I havent had any of those issues. Of course im using the monoblock. You descrube it as hard to setup and having poor manual, but then you say when you finally followed the instructions it worked? Maybe there is something else weve missed? Im running mine off of ms8 but it worked the same without it. Something had to get skipped, or it truly is faulty. try sub sonic at 25hz and 24db


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

The power is there, as an amp it delivers using the HU's HP, LP, the DSP is what I am working on, maybe with a different HU. When I got this amp anyway I got it for the small profile and the power it delivers, I needed a HP for my ported sub and I think it is doing that job.


Almost got it today , I set the HU sub level to max, best result was Amp's 30-35Hz HP, and 50-60Hz amp's LP, slope was 24db, that almost did it but not quite.

I am replacing my HU, mine is one of those high end wanna be JVC 5 volt RCA's but the HP has only 62,95 and 120Hz, talk about missing the the best HPF setting at 80-85Hz for the fronts and as mentioned the sub's LPF only offers 55,85 and 120 hz option.

What I hear when I turn off the subs LP on the HU and use the Amps DSP filters is like resonance when I turn the vol up, it is like rattle or roll off on the sub like if it can't handle the power even when not turning it very high or loud like I do using the HU's LP. 

Any clue of what that resonace is?, no clue if it is beaming or how beaming sounds, it is like a huge resonance where the bass looses it's low notes on strong bass notes, I am not playing torture tracks either these are just normal pop, rock songs not even hitting 50,40Hz.

Unless anybody has any other suggestions, my next step is setting the gains again and go from there, but again no issues using the HU's LPF amp's LPF off


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

Alrojoca said:


> Thanks for trying to help, oops I forgot to mention that's while having the head units sub LP OFF I also tried from 80hz down to 40hz (all and different slopes) or as low it would let me go, since the Amps HPF limits the LP to 10hz above the Hp as it describes on the manual (band pass) and still I could not match or even get the bass I got using the HU's LP there was no comparison and tried different slopes too. Having the amps output level to max (80) I also tried a sealed shallow 10" box I have, maybe for being a 10" and sealed a minor marginal improvement but not the tight midbass and chest pounding bass I get using the HU LP at 55hz and amps LP off.
> 
> The only thing I did not try was increasing the HU's sub level (mine goes from 0-8) I have it at 5. Not sure if that may help trigger the amp's DSP processing and it will make it have the impact it should have. I will keep trying and report once I correct it, unless any other thoughts come to mind, it could be the amp gains and relation between the output gain for the processing to kick in as you mentioned before.
> 
> Thanks


So your sub sounds better (but still not good) with the amp's crossover turned off? (using your HU's crossover) 

If you turn your HU's crossover from 55hz up to 80hz it sounds worst?


But when you try using the Amp's crossover it doesn't sound right at all no matter what?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

1fishman said:


> So your sub sounds better (but still not good) with the amp's crossover turned off? (using your HU's crossover)
> 
> If you turn your HU's crossover from 55hz up to 80hz it sounds worst?
> 
> ...


Yes, much better with the HU's sub's LP, in either of the 3 settings 55,85,120HZ

55Hz gives the tightest deepest bass with no resonances or trying to play high notes that it appears to do with the amps DSP LP. Something funky for sure, Im guessing my HU 

Yes, with the HU sub's LP off, and amp's DSP today after turning the HU subs level to max, the amp's LP using 24db slope and between 50-60Hz it was better than before, still hear a resonance here and there only with certain notes but still the Hu' LP sounds better and none of those roll offs or resonances on the sub.


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## tbomb (Nov 28, 2007)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Guys, when you use MS-Amps along with MS-8, there's no need to use the MS-Amp setup CD. Set the input range switch to "Low" and turn the input level control all the way down. Then, set the output level control to somewhere between 40 and 60. Turn off the system to save your amp settings. Turn it back on, configure and calibrate MS-8 the regular way.
> 
> Then, if you decide you need more output, turn all the amplifiers output level control up by exactly the same amount. The output level control has 80 steps. Those .5 dB steps and provide attenuation down to -40dB.
> 
> Oh, also, when you use MS-Amps with MS-8, there's no need for the wireless bass control. It's the same filter that's in the MS-8 for the sub level control.


THIS!

I was enjoying my car as is, but did desire better integration of sub. How I never saw this post is beyond me but now it sounds Fantastic! And this is still with stock door speakers in my GTI. Still havent found time to install my P660c's


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Good news! it appears that my issue with the DSP was resolved. Now I am just fine tuning and dialing the sound. 

I noticed with the HU's LP off, the HU's phase does not seem to change anything, is this normal for all HU's or simply the amp's DSP prevents the phase to be changed with the HU settings?

Thanks


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