# Hooking up speakers to the deck vs 4 ch amp?



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Sorry i know its been asked a lot but ive had my setup (4 speakers, two tweeters, fronts are components) and 1 sub for 3 years now. Sub is running off a mono amp and the speakers off the headunit. 

Just wanted to know what would be the benefits of getting a 4 ch amp and running the speakers off that instead of the head unit? Is it worth it? Will it sound night and day better? The main reason why i chose to run them offf the head unit is cause i was told i didnt need a seperate amp for the speakers and to cut costs. 

How hard is it to rewire to add a 4 ch amp for the speakers?


----------



## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

It's a night and day difference. Do it.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Wiring is not hard. Running speaker wires will suck or you can just tap into the oem wires. I prefer having new speaker wires though.


----------



## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

You can tap into the factory speaker wires which makes it a lot easier.


----------



## tm4n6910 (Jun 26, 2012)

i have a small 2 channel amp running subs, and a decent 4 channel running mids/highs and like NoAudioFile said you can tap into the stock wires , of course i removed my rear speakers months ago. saved a lot of time and dont have to turn it up as loud by amping the others


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Angrywhopper said:


> It's a night and day difference. Do it.


I have a pioneer head unit, will it be a night and day difference still


----------



## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Mayosandwich said:


> I have a pioneer head unit, will it be a night and day difference still


oke:

Doesn't matter what it says on your head unit, a head unit is a head unit, and an amp > head unit


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Question is do you have enough RCA outs for everything?


----------



## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

If its a sedan with speakers on the rear shelf you can disconnect them from the speakers connect them to the amp which will send the signal up behind the dash,then connect those wires to the front speaker wires to power them.The just run new wires to the rear speakers.


----------



## NealfromNZ (Sep 3, 2013)

Your a the crossover point from having a car stereo verse hifi car audio.
If you speakers are good quality going to external amps will give a noticeable improvement . If not you won't get decent gains.

I've recently done the reverse in the wife's car due to room with baby. Loosing the sub had the most marked difference. Changing back from amped front speakers to head unit was less of a difference at low volume. However. The system clarity has dropped.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> Question is do you have enough RCA outs for everything?


Not sure. My deck has three 4V preouts. But i think one is used for the sub already.




ATOMICTECH62 said:


> If its a sedan with speakers on the rear shelf you can disconnect them from the speakers connect them to the amp which will send the signal up behind the dash,then connect those wires to the front speaker wires to power them.The just run new wires to the rear speakers.


Its coupe.



NealfromNZ said:


> Your a the crossover point from having a car stereo verse hifi car audio.
> If you speakers are good quality going to external amps will give a noticeable improvement . If not you won't get decent gains.
> 
> I've recently done the reverse in the wife's car due to room with baby. Loosing the sub had the most marked difference. Changing back from amped front speakers to head unit was less of a difference at low volume. However. The system clarity has dropped.


Hmm interesting. What head unit do you have in that car?

I always thought head unit built in amps were decent.

I guess id have to hear the difference to see for myself. Ive just never heard a system running off a 4 ch amp before so i cant say. The speakers in now are kickers mid range kickers. Not the entry model but the step up. I think their the kicker KS line. Are these good enough to notice visible power with an amp? 

Does running another amp put extra strain on your alternator and battery?


----------



## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Mayosandwich said:


> Not sure. My deck has three 4V preouts. But i think one is used for the sub already.


That is a yes.


----------



## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Nobody has bothered to tell you why a real amp will be better than your head unit. Your head unit may claim 50watts per channel, but that is usually max power, not RMS, and it's often with only one channel driven at a time. Realistically you are getting about 15 watts per channel rms from your head unit. An aftermarket amp will give you much more power at much lower distortion.


----------



## gtsdohcvvtli (Aug 17, 2011)

Imagine a plain old guitar. They sound good don't they?

Now hook that guitar to a good amplifier. 

Gives u somewhat of an idea


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

REGULARCAB said:


> That is a yes.


How many preouts from my deck would i need for the 4 speakers?


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Mayosandwich said:


> How many preouts from my deck would i need for the 4 speakers?


Depends how you want to wire the speakers. But ideally 3 pairs if you planning to run front, rear and sub. Let's make it easy. Which head unit do you have?


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> Depends how you want to wire the speakers. But ideally 3 pairs if you planning to run front, rear and sub. Let's make it easy. Which head unit do you have?


I have this one

DEH-P4200UB - CD Receiver with OEL Display, USB Direct Control of iPod, and 7-Way Rotary Commander | Pioneer Electronics USA

3 years old, so im sure the sound quality isnt as good as the latest pioneers. I was considering putting in a new Pioneer deck but its kinda waste of money as I think i would get much more benefits from sticking with my deck now and just adding a 2nd amp.

Ill be picking up a 4ch Alpine MRP-F300 used locally for $100. Sounds like a great deal, its $230 new and wasnt wanting to drop that kind of coin.


----------



## ccapil (Jun 1, 2013)

I'd say yes defiantly get a 2/4 channel amp. What components do u have? Do u have speakers in the back as well? Since your headunit has 3 preouts, that will make it easy to run to the 2nd amp without y splitters. Do u have room for a another amp in your car, a 5 channel amp may be better possibly.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

That hu will do just fine. Since you already have the amp for the sub, 4ch will be good.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

ccapil said:


> I'd say yes defiantly get a 2/4 channel amp. What components do u have? Do u have speakers in the back as well? Since your headunit has 3 preouts, that will make it easy to run to the 2nd amp without y splitters. Do u have room for a another amp in your car, a 5 channel amp may be better possibly.


Right now I have

*Pioneer DEH4200UB deck

Kicker ZX400.1 400W RMS mono amp with 10" Kicker CompVR10 DVC 4ohm sub. * Got this one cause I kept blowing my previous subs due to underpowering the amp, so I got this sub since it was pretty much made hand in hand with my amp. Adjusted the gains and levels when I got it and shouldnt have a problem with anymore blown subs. I had a JL audio W3 sub before and overdriven it on this amp.

*Kicker KS model speakers *for fronts and backs.

Im taking this route instead of buying a 5ch amp because its much cheaper and saves me the hassle of resaling gear. I have my mono amp currently mounted onto the back of my backseat and yes I have lots of room there to mount another amp.



NoAudioFile said:


> That hu will do just fine. Since you already have the amp for the sub, 4ch will be good.


The alpine amp that ill be getting, specs wise is it okay to use in my setup? Alpine MRP-300.

RMS Power (at 14.4V THD+N, 20-20kHz)

Per channel into 4 ohms: 50W x 4 (0.08% THD)
Per channel into 2 ohms: 75W x 4
Bridged 4 Ohms: 150W x 2

My only concern is that I dont remember what RMS ratings my speakers are and I dont remember the exact model since they are 3 years old. But im almost certain they dont match up with this Alpines RMS rating of 50W RMS per channel. Cant I risk blowing the speakers like I did with my previous subs if the RMS ratings dont match?


----------



## ccapil (Jun 1, 2013)

Mayosandwich said:


> Right now I have
> 
> *Pioneer DEH4200UB deck
> 
> ...


Yip I'd say that alpine amp would be a pretty good choice. U will just have to re-wire everything and buy some rcas etc. it will make a hell of a difference, just be sure to set the gain right.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

I just took a look at the manual for that hu. It's kinda odd, seems like the RCA from top to bottom goes like this, rear, front, sub. So remember which output you send to the amp. And use the channels accordingly.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Unassigned-Content/Manuals/DEH-P4200UB+INSTALLATION+MANUAL page 2


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Don't worry. That much power won't blow the speakers. It's better to overpower them anyway.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

What car is this going into? That way we can know what speakers you have.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

ccapil said:


> Yip I'd say that alpine amp would be a pretty good choice. U will just have to re-wire everything and buy some rcas etc. it will make a hell of a difference, just be sure to set the gain right.


Hmm I dont trust myself for the rewiring as I know nothing about car audio so ill most likely be paying a backyard car audio tech to do it. How hard would it be though? 

I didnt think id have to re set my gains all over again. Are you talking about the gains on the 4ch amp, not the mono amp right?


----------



## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

NoAudioFile said:


> What car is this going into? That way we can know what speakers you have.


This is a valid question. Are you running with the stock speakers? If you are i would just as soon leave em running off of deck power. That is opinion however.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> What car is this going into? That way we can know what speakers you have.


Car is 05 civic.

Front speakers are 6" Kicker KS coaxials, cant find the exact model number. Tried doing a search for past list of 6" Kicker models and nothing. 6" speakers is very rare.

Rears Im 99% certain that theyre the Kicker KS690, but it says those are 90W RMS, that cant be right.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Well this is a diy forum so if you need help any one here can walk you through the wiring. As you already have an amp wiring is much much easier since you don't have to rerun your ground, power, or remote, just split them.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Your fronts are assuming it's the 08 model ks65.2 with 75 watts rms so maybe a more powerful amp would be better. btw your speaker size is 6.5"


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Mayosandwich said:


> Car is 05 civic.
> 
> Front speakers are 6" Kicker KS coaxials, cant find the exact model number. Tried doing a search for past list of 6" Kicker models and nothing. 6" speakers is very rare.
> 
> Rears Im 99% certain that theyre the Kicker KS690, but it says those are 90W RMS, that cant be right.


If you have the coupe then yeah 6x9 coaxials 90rms.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> Your fronts are assuming it's the 08 model ks65.2 with 75 watts rms so maybe a more powerful amp would be better. btw your speaker size is 6.5"


Those are it! KS65.2 for the fronts. Wow didnt realize that they put out 75RMS. 

So that Alpine might not cut the mustard eh? Wouldnt the speakers blow since theyll be under powered?

Do keep in mind that I want to keep my costs to a minimum. Dont really wanna be dropping hundreds of dollars on a new amp.



NoAudioFile said:


> If you have the coupe then yeah 6x9 coaxials 90rms.


Fronts 75 and rears 90....ya these were kickers mid range line speakers in that year. Really good reviews and i think were pretty banging speakers. They should be good enough quality to benefit from the amp eh?


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

If you want to spend $100 for that amp, I'd suggest you just get Alpine KTP-445U (ktp445u) Universal Head Unit Power Pack for Use instead. That way no need to buy long RCAs.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Well 75rms is suggested. You can run them off 50 but I prefer at or more power. Oh yeah, here http://www.kicker.com/Product_Manuals/95/339


----------



## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Although they can handle 75w and 90w respectably, putting in the F300 will still be a noticeable difference. Just do it.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> If you want to spend $100 for that amp, I'd suggest you just get Alpine KTP-445U (ktp445u) Universal Head Unit Power Pack for Use instead. That way no need to buy RCAs.


What does this do exactly? Add more power? Wow $130. Are RCAs that much?

if im spending $130 on that, maybe just put that towards a higher output amp?


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Angrywhopper said:


> Although they can handle 75w and 90w respectably, putting in the F300 will still be a noticeable difference. Just do it.


According to the specs, it says the Alpine you can get 75W RMS/ch running a 2ohm setup. Not sure what i have mine on now, but I know the sub is a dual voice coil and my sub amp Im actually getting the full 400W RMS.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Mayosandwich said:


> What does this do exactly? Add more power? Wow $130. Are RCAs that much?
> 
> if im spending $130 on that, maybe just put that towards a higher output amp?


I suggest this because if you get the MRP Alpine, you have to buy a 2 distribution block and other crap that'll add $. Personally if you don't care about the rears just do like tm4n6910 and take them out then bridge the amp to get 90rms. You can sell the rear or save it for later. Up to you or get a more powerful amp plus the install stuff.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

You are running 4ohms because your speakers load the amp at 4 ohms. So no 2ohms.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Hey NoAudiofile,

I see what you mean now, I could just get that Alpine power pack that you posted instead of the Alpine amp. But no one here locally sells it. 

How much extra strain does it put on your cars electrical running 2 amps as opposed to 1? I dont have a high output alternator but I do have an alternator that is better than stock for my car. Stock alternator for my car is 90 joules. Mine now is 110 joules.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Don't worry about it. You won't really need a new alternator unless you're running +1000 watts.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Check ebay. I see those going for less than 100 shipped. Make sure you get the *universal *one


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> I suggest this because if you get the MRP Alpine, you have to buy a 2 distribution block and other crap that'll add $. Personally if you don't care about the rears just do like tm4n6910 and take them out then bridge the amp to get 90rms. You can sell the rear or save it for later. Up to you or get a more powerful amp plus the install stuff.


Hmm, not willing to scrap the rear speakers.

Too bad ill have to get 2 dist blocks and rcas with the alpine. How much would that cost anyway? Are these needed regardless of any amp i choose?

That alpine power pack that you posted is $180 on crutchfield,ca, yikes!

Is it true that you can damage your speakers by underpowering them with the head unit amp? Cause now this all makes sense on why i get some treble distortion (like a scratchy sound) on an occasional basis when playing at high volumes. Even though im probably only getting 15w rms per speaker through my head unit right now, im shocked how loud it can get.


----------



## ccapil (Jun 1, 2013)

Don't worry about a new alt. I suggest getting a nice 4 channel amp to power the 4 speakers, and have one channel going to each speaker. I would personally ditch the rear speakers (just my personal taste) but if u want rear fill thats up to u. So get a 4 channel, just one from the top of my head, alpine mrpf300, or mrvf300. That way it's future proof so if u want to upgrade speakers or run components (or go active) in the future u don't need to buy a new amp. And NO! If u under power your speakers it will not blow them or damage them, that only happens if u ask the amp to put out more power than it is rated for, which is clipping. Other wise speakers would blow as soon as u turn the volume down.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Can't say, it depends on the quality of the RCAs. +20 for the cheap stuff. It's really up to you how you want to do it. If you get the MRP then decide the change to something else later on all you need to do is change the amp. While the power pack you gotta go through this again.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

^^ damn it he beat me to it lol


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> Can't say, it depends on the quality of the RCAs. +20 for the cheap stuff. It's really up to you how you want to do it. If you get the MRP then decide the change to something else later on all you need to do is change the amp. While the power pack you gotta go through this again.


I see, but is the 2 distrubtion packs needed regardless of the amp i choose? Cause if not then i might just get the pioneer at future shop for $150 more and is 75W RMS/ch. of course depends on how much these dist packs cost.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

ccapil said:


> Don't worry about a new alt. I suggest getting a nice 4 channel amp to power the 4 speakers, and have one channel going to each speaker. I would personally ditch the rear speakers (just my personal taste) but if u want rear fill thats up to u. So get a 4 channel, just one from the top of my head, alpine mrpf300, or mrvf300. That way it's future proof so if u want to upgrade speakers or run components (or go active) in the future u don't need to buy a new amp. And NO! If u under power your speakers it will not blow them or damage them, that only happens if u ask the amp to put out more power than it is rated for, which is clipping. Other wise speakers would blow as soon as u turn the volume down.


Just wondering why many on here dont like rear speakers? If i could do this all over again, i wouldnt have bothered with my rears, but i figure since i spent the money on them, might as well keep making use of them.

Another idea i thought of is getting a 2 ch JBL amp, which is 110w RMS/ch for $80 and run the fronts off that, while keeping the rears off the head unit but just drop the volume on the rears. This would be a cheap route to take and i dont plan on upgrading anything down the road as i usually dont bother upgrading.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

You don't need a distribution block for the power pack. It wires straight to your hu.

Stinger SPD511 ShocKrome-Plated PRO Series Power Distribution T-Block you'll need 2 if you plan on the MRP.

Yeah you can do the 2 ch setup too. Not sure what you meant by lowering the volume on the rear.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> You don't need a distribution block for the power pack. It wires straight to your hu.
> 
> Stinger SPD511 ShocKrome-Plated PRO Series Power Distribution T-Block you'll need 2 if you plan on the MRP.
> 
> Yeah you can do the 2 ch setup too. Not sure what you meant by lowering the volume on the rear.


Oh ok, so the two distrubtion blocks is only needed if i get the MRP.

What if i got this amp? Would i still need them? Is ultimate a good brand?

Ultimate 4-Channel Car Amplifier (T2-604) : 4+ Channel Amps - Future Shop


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Not sure if it's a good amp. However the specs that website gave you is wrong. According to the Ultimate website its 64rms x 2... Makes no sense. I'll just assume it's a typo and they meant 64x4.

Ultimate Sound: Car Audio


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Looks like you know what to do once you have the amp so all you need to do is find that perfect amp. Maybe you can post your budget and what you're looking to achieve so others can help you out. Maybe start a new thread in the System Design sub forum?


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Hmm interesting, if its 2 ch ill skip it, might as well get the JBL. But i think ill most likely rather get a 4 channel than a 2.

This is what a friend told me and made me think that this past 3 years ive been damaging my speakers.



> One of the main reasons why people blow their speakers is from clipping. Pushing the head unit amplifier to its max will result in a clipped signal sent to the each driver. This will cause excessive heat, abnormal cone movement, and distorted sound. IT will dramatically reduce the life of the speakers. To have a system last at high volumes, you MUST amplify your speakers.


Is this true? if so, Then christ ive been killing my speakers when playing high volumes from the head unit? A lot of times i play it 75-80% vol from the head unit. Always made me wonder, is this really 50watts? I always thought it was.


----------



## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Ok a few things if you want to add another amp.

First what guage power wire are you already running? Go here scroll down on the right hand side and click on "wire". Input the max watts your sub amp and whatever other amp you choose put out. It will tell you what guage you need for both the main and the branch power wires and will give you recommended fuse ratings.

Second, you want a fused distribution block, something like this. You only need one if you are only running 2 amps.

There are a ton of decent cheap four channels out there. I can personally recommend this one if you are looking in that price range. But there are a ton of options. 

And the obligatory link to Basic Car Audio Electronics , read and learn. Its all good stuff.

Now have fun shopping


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Depends on where in the volume range your hu clips at. I can't seem to find where mine is clipping even when I turn it to max. When you had your hu and sub installed 3 yrs ago did your installer mention anything like the volume you can play at without clipping. Your hu only does 14w rms. If you like your sound now think how much better it would be with 50w.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

REGULARCAB said:


> Ok a few things if you want to add another amp.
> 
> First what guage power wire are you already running? Go here scroll down on the right hand side and click on "wire". Input the max watts your sub amp and whatever other amp you choose put out. It will tell you what guage you need for both the main and the branch power wires and will give you recommended fuse ratings.


It's a 4awg assuming from the amp he has. Plenty to support the system.


----------



## NealfromNZ (Sep 3, 2013)

Mayosandwich said:


> Not sure. My deck has three 4V preouts. But i think one is used for the sub already.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Head unit is a Sony Gt700d circa 2007. Has 24bit dac, with basic time alignment and burr brown op amps on the pre amp stages. Its a nice basic clean head unit that features 4volt pre out and six rcas out so can either run active 2 way active front comps or standard 4channel operation.

However the built in amps are of average quality with only 12 watts rms x 4on tap. The lack of clarity in my view is the inbuilt amp and I suspect that its clipping on the bass notes at a medium volume level. It used to have 60 rms driving the front components from the main amp with the bass cut below 63hz
So the front amp had plenty of headroom. The clarity and sound stage was better. I mainly the difference in the mid bass and the treble range of the music. The front components are Sony ex series with ribbon tweeters that are good on detail.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

REGULARCAB said:


> Ok a few things if you want to add another amp.
> 
> First what guage power wire are you already running? Go here scroll down on the right hand side and click on "wire". Input the max watts your sub amp and whatever other amp you choose put out. It will tell you what guage you need for both the main and the branch power wires and will give you recommended fuse ratings.
> 
> ...


Ya i have 4awg.




NoAudioFile said:


> Depends on where in the volume range your hu clips at. I can't seem to find where mine is clipping even when I turn it to max. When you had your hu and sub installed 3 yrs ago did your installer mention anything like the volume you can play at without clipping. Your hu only does 14w rms. If you like your sound now think how much better it would be with 50w.


Well it was a long time ago that i properly set my gains on my sub amp and my deck settings and 5 band EQ, but from what i remember i pretty much never get clipping. Clipping sounds like a CD skipping right? I never get that. If anything i get scratchy treble on an occasional basis when playing some songs at high volumes that are high in treble. Bsically the highs get a little muddy and loose its crispness. At first i thought it was my speakers, but now its 99.9% my head unit.

Im very anxious to get an amp in there, cant believe i went 3 years running my speakers off my head unit at 14watts rms per channel.

No the installer never mentioned anything to me, he didnt even propely set my gains and all, i did it myself. I pretty much never go past 85% volume on the head unit, its too loud. 

Installtion wise which do you think would be quicker and easier to do, the alpine amp or the alpine power pack? 50 vs 45 watts, wont make any difference and the reviews on the alpine power pack are really good. The benefit of this is less wires. Theres a place locally that has it for $130ish.

I see a 400W rms kicker that is 75W/ch, for $250 as well, the 300.1...not sure if that would need distrubtion blocks too and id love to have it but its a bit more than i wanna spend.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Mayosandwich said:


> If anything i get scratchy treble on an occasional basis when playing some songs at high volumes that are high in treble. Bsically the highs get a little muddy and loose its crispness. At first i thought it was my speakers, but now its 99.9% my head unit.
> 
> Im very anxious to get an amp in there, cant believe i went 3 years running my speakers off my head unit at 17watts rms per channel.
> 
> ...


That's probably your clipping right there. Maybe an hour or 2 to install for both. Difficulty I would rate the power pack a bit harder since more stripping and crimping. The 300.1 is only a mono amp, no good for components. What is your budget? Btw hows the weather up there in Calgary. I didn't notice that you were in CA so I based everything off US prices.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Forgot to mention the power pack is a little more convenient since everything is in one place, no need to take off carpeting and running wires to tap the speaker wires.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

used Alpine PDX4.100 - in Amps - $200 - Car Audio Forumz - The #1 Car Audio Forum see if this is still available =)


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> Forgot to mention the power pack is a little more convenient since everything is in one place, no need to take off carpeting and running wires to tap the speaker wires.


So the power pack, you pretty much just pull the head unit and dont have to take door panels off, and rip carpets?

Ill check out the for sale one.

My budget honestly is as little as possible haha. Just cause Ive spent and wasted so much money on my system already years ago and havent spent any since. Ive been listening to the headunits amp for 3 years now, so i dont need something to blow my socks off, but it sounds like getting either the MRP300 or the Power pack would be good enough for me.

If I installed the power pack, where do you usually hide it?

I was told I can get the distributers from walmart, so theyre called universal distributor blocks?


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Mayosandwich said:


> Ya i have 4awg.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


if you have a HU with 35-50 watts x 4, then that alpine power pack is a waste of money. it puts out the same amount and quality of power.

if you are going to the expense of an amplifier, then get a real amplifier.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

You'll have to use your imagination where you want to put the power pack. For me I would do it above the passenger foot area for ease of access.

I'll have to agree with minbari if budget allows you to do so. That's why I gave you that link to the pdx which includes rca and extra wiring plus he's in Canada so it'll save you some cash there.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

minbari said:


> if you have a HU with 35-50 watts x 4, then that alpine power pack is a waste of money. it puts out the same amount and quality of power.
> 
> if you are going to the expense of an amplifier, then get a real amplifier.


My HU puts out 50W per channel but RMS is like 14W. The Alpine is 45W RMS per channel.

Same with the MRP300, 50W per channel.

I dont need to match my speakers specs cause I dont wanna drop that kind of money. But i figure going from 14W RMS/ch to 45W RMS/ch would be a huge improvement.



NoAudioFile said:


> You'll have to use your imagination where you want to put the power pack. For me I would do it above the passenger foot area for ease of access.
> 
> I'll have to agree with minbari if budget allows you to do so. That's why I gave you that link to the pdx which includes rca and extra wiring plus he's in Canada so it'll save you some cash there.


So going from my HU to the power pack wont be any different? 

Would the Alpine MRP300 be the same case?

Remember im coming from HU sound for 3 years, which to me sounds more than good enough for me, aside from the occasional scratchy highs and me not wanting to damage my speakers anymore in the long run. If it wasnt for either of those two i would just stick with my HU. The volume is for the most part more than adequate, even though i wouldnt mind a bit more.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

It will be better than just using your hu. Basically buy as much clean power as you can afford.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Hey NoAudioFile,

Going from Pioneers specs, it says my head unit puts out 22W RMS/ch.

Under audio features.

DEH-P4200UB - CD Receiver with OEL Display, USB Direct Control of iPod, and 7-Way Rotary Commander | Pioneer Electronics USA


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Pioneer DEH-P4200UB CD receiver at Crutchfield.com i went off this... so hmmm who to believe is another dilemma


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Mayosandwich said:


> My HU puts out 50W per channel but RMS is like 14W. The Alpine is 45W RMS per channel.
> 
> Same with the MRP300, 50W per channel.
> 
> ...


I would put the MRP300 against that power pack anyday. They might both be _rated_ for ~45-50 watts per channel, but they wont both make the same power at the same quality.

although I am sure you will hear a difference from 14watts to 45 watts, the power pack is still a chip based amplifier. not worth $130 IMHO.


----------



## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

The power pack is a class d amp that claims 45x4 at 1%THD @14.4 volts.Under normal use I would say its more like 30-35 watts.It only has a 15 amp fuse and is not bridgeable so it seems it is a chip based amp that is internally bridged.
For some reason people have been selling them like crazy on Ebay over the last few months.There are 21 on Ebay right now and I think all but 3 are used.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> Pioneer DEH-P4200UB CD receiver at Crutchfield.com i went off this... so hmmm who to believe is another dilemma


Not sure but 22W RMS for a HU is pretty decent. im gonna call pioneer on this to double check first.



minbari said:


> I would put the MRP300 against that power pack anyday. They might both be _rated_ for ~45-50 watts per channel, but they wont both make the same power at the same quality.
> 
> although I am sure you will hear a difference from 14watts to 45 watts, the power pack is still a chip based amplifier. not worth $130 IMHO.


Good point, I wont bother with the power pack, might as well go with the MRP300 for $100 + Distribution blocks and RCAs. 

Will I need 1 or 2 distribution blocks with the Alpine MRP300? and its just called universal dist. blocks?




ATOMICTECH62 said:


> The power pack is a class d amp that claims 45x4 at 1%THD @14.4 volts.Under normal use I would say its more like 30-35 watts.It only has a 15 amp fuse and is not bridgeable so it seems it is a chip based amp that is internally bridged.
> For some reason people have been selling them like crazy on Ebay over the last few months.There are 21 on Ebay right now and I think all but 3 are used.


Probably because the install is cleaner and easier than an amp is my guess. And probably many owners are still using stock speakers.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

The thing is in the end he might need to spend an extra 120 + mrp to get it installed. While power pack is cheaper to install if he went to his installer.


----------



## ShaneInMN (Sep 27, 2013)

Do yourself a favor, erase the power pack from your mind.

It sucks, I don't know any other way to put it.

minbari is right on the money. If what you want is a good amp and not spend a lot of money, look at the budget line alpines MRV-F300. If you're not comfortable installing it yourself like you would be with a power pack, pay someone to do it. You will be a lot more satisfied.

Buy as much power as you can afford, even if your speakers are only 50W RMS rated, I'd be looking at a 75Wx4 amp. You never know, down the road you might want it louder and need to upgrade your full range speakers, and you dont have to deal with upgrading the amp at the same time. You'll have more headroom. You can keep the gains low and the amp will run better.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

lol i guess this is what happens when there is no real budget


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> The thing is in the end he might need to spend an extra 120 + mrp to get it installed. While power pack is cheaper to install if he went to his installer.


Was quoted $80-100 from a few backyard techs. Hmm.

Only thing is, is the distribution block really needed? One tech said to skip it, but i called around and theyre like $150+. I thought theyre cheap haha.



ShaneInMN said:


> Do yourself a favor, erase the power pack from your mind.
> 
> It sucks, I don't know any other way to put it.
> 
> ...


The Alpine MRP-300 is what ill get today, guy has one for $100 locally. As much as id love to spend $200 on that alpine RX, I just cant right now.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

No way are the distribution block 150


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

NoAudioFile said:


> No way are the distribution block 150


I agree

made of solid gold??? you can get a 3 amplifier distro with 1/0 in and 4ga out for about $12


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> No way are the distribution block 150


Hmm should i find another tech to do it? This guy said it was $150 haha and said I dont need a dist. block, he said to go without it especially if I want to cut costs.

He also said I can use reg home speaker wire for this, is that true? 12g he recommended. Cause I have about 20ft in 12g home theatre speaker wire laying around. He said to get four 15ft speaker wire cables.

Theres lots of car audio gurus where I live to do the install.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Well since you've decided on the mrp. You'll need 2 blocks with at least 4awg inlets 2 in 1 out, speaker wire, some 4awg wire, some remote wire, and RCA.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Amplifier Wiring Diagram you don't need a capacitor. I guess crutchfield refers to them as power blocks. but yeah they're like $12 at walmart.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> Well since you've decided on the mrp. You'll need 2 blocks with at least 4awg inlets 2 in 1 out, speaker wire, some 4awg wire, some remote wire, and RCA.


Hmm where can I get all that? Sounds like installing all that would drive up the install time and costs. That sounds like a helluva lot of work.

Maybe im better off just putting that money into a different amp that wont require all that? 



NoAudioFile said:


> Amplifier Wiring Diagram you don't need a capacitor. I guess crutchfield refers to them as power blocks. but yeah they're like $12 at walmart.


The capacitor is the dist. block? or different?


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Mayosandwich said:


> Hmm where can I get all that? Sounds like installing all that would drive up the install time and costs.
> 
> Maybe im better off just putting that money into a different amp that wont require all that?


Car audio dealers or walmart. Better to get something for auto install instead of home. different, you don't need it.


----------



## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

Wow!If I ever charged $150 to install an amp I would include the amp kit and speaker wire.Wish you lived close to me.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Wanna make a trip across the border? =)


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> Car audio dealers or walmart. Better to get something for auto install instead of home. different, you don't need it.


2 dist. blocks with at least 4awg inlets 2 in 1 out
speaker wire
4awg wire 
remote wire
RCA

Sounds like the Alpine will add a lot of extra wires and junk to my setup. Didnt know I would need remote wire too with it. 

Looking into a different amp. 

Boy this makes the Alpine power pack look like a breeze to install compared to this Alpine. It would definitely be a lot cheaper for labour thats forsure.


----------



## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

The SQK4ANL 4 gauge amp kit has almost everything you need but distro blocks.
$29 free shipping on Ebay.This Soundquest stuff is not that bad.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Called around and all these places want $50-70 for their kits and that doesnt even include enough speaker wire or dis. blocks.

Not getting this alpine, it sounds like a major pain in the ass and ill be paying through my ass for extra labour. Ill look for another amp that wont require all this extra garbage.


----------



## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Omg 4 pages on this? Barely read the first 2. The op is confused and probably need an installer to add an extra amp.

KISS, Get the 4 ch amp, bridge the last 2 ch to drive the sub, Drive fronts with the front channels. Hu to drive the rears, no need to touch rear speaker connection.

Unless the sub is 2 ohms the 4 ch amp replaces the mono amp, then sell the mono amp. If the sub is 4 ohms then no problem.

The harness should have an input to use factory speaker wiring with amp. Amp to harness, harness to front speakers. Simple, keep existing wiring to power the amp and speakers, set gains for fronts and sub and done. In most cases the rear speakers do not need power, it's usually wasted or they can not be heard from the front seats. Either this or get a 5 ch amp if the sub is 2 ohms, to keep one amp only, and sell the mono amp. It does not make much sense to spend extra on wiring kits for second amp, dist blocks, fuses and complicated connections go with a time consuming installation.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Mayosandwich said:


> 2 dist. blocks with at least 4awg inlets 2 in 1 out
> speaker wire
> 4awg wire
> remote wire
> ...


It's not hard. Do some reading, watch some youtube videos and the hardest part is taking out the hu... or check for some other reputable installers i only found about 5 using calgary yelp and only 1 has a picture of their shop =.=


----------



## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

OP Read post 87 just in case you miss it.


----------



## ShaneInMN (Sep 27, 2013)

All amps are going to need a remote wire (this is how the head unit sends the power on signal to the amp), power, ground, signal (RCA's) and speaker wires running to it. I'm sure there are other ways to get the job done, but that's how it's done in setups now a days.

Dist blocks are nice to save on the cost of power wire and running extra wire under trim/carpet. They are not needed. I went with one so I didn't have to drill another hole through my firewall and run a 2nd dedicated power line for my 2nd amp. My combined power of both amps can run fine off a 120A fuse and 4ga power. I just got a 0/1/4 ga dist block )(Rockford Fosgate RFD-1) that takes one input and 2 outputs, unfused. Running 4ga in, and 2x 4ga out. Works fantastic. It cost me 20 bucks probably saved that much or more in 4ga power wire if I had to run a 2nd line.


----------



## ShaneInMN (Sep 27, 2013)

Mayo, you might call it extra garbage, but the power pack has all that same "garbage" except it's in the form of thin 16 gauge wires connected to a wire harness.

There's a reason a dedicated amp requires a larger gauge power/ground line, it's because it's going to draw the power it needs to feed to speakers.

If you want simplicity, by all means get the power pack, but my opinion based on personal experience is that it's not worth the time saved or money invested. You HU is going to give you similar sound quality and power, a dedicated amp will a lot different, even at the same rated power.


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

NoAudioFile said:


> It's not hard. Do some reading, watch some youtube videos and the hardest part is taking out the hu... or check for some other reputable installers i only found about 5 using calgary yelp and only 1 has a picture of their shop =.=


EIther way install wont be cheap. From a guy who seems to know his **** and he quoted $140 to do the amp install vs $50-60 for the adaptor.



Alrojoca said:


> KISS, Get the 4 ch amp, bridge the last 2 ch to drive the sub, Drive fronts with the front channels. Hu to drive the rears, no need to touch rear speaker connection.


I would do this but a couple reasons why not. 1) I like the rears as good fill in speakers and 2) My kicker amp now is made for my kicker sub specs wise. Its a DVC 4ohm sub but running in 2ohms. If I run that off the Alpines 3&4 channels bridged, wont i only get 100W to the sub? THats not near enough.



ShaneInMN said:


> Mayo, you might call it extra garbage, but the power pack has all that same "garbage" except it's in the form of thin 16 gauge wires connected to a wire harness.
> 
> There's a reason a dedicated amp requires a larger gauge power/ground line, it's because it's going to draw the power it needs to feed to speakers.
> 
> If you want simplicity, by all means get the power pack, but my opinion based on personal experience is that it's not worth the time saved or money invested. You HU is going to give you similar sound quality and power, a dedicated amp will a lot different, even at the same rated power.


Thats my concern is that the power pack wont be enough of a clean signal and upgrade over my current HU signal. But then again ive been listening to my HU sound for 3 years, so maybe it will, who knows. If i got it, paid someones to install it and wasnt happy with it and still got the scratchy highs, I would be pissed. 

But if we are going from 22W RMS/ch on my Pioneer HU to the Alpines 38RMS/ch thats just a slight upgrade.

If i could install this myself id get the amp but Ill probably be spending just as much on the install as the equipment. So its already expensive. If install wasnt a factor this would be an easy decision.

Sounds to me like maybe either isnt worth it. $150ish for amp + all wires + $150 for install = $300. Yikes.


----------



## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Mayosandwich said:


> I would do this but a couple reasons why not. 1) I like the rears as good fill in speakers and 2) My kicker amp now is made for my kicker sub specs wise. Its a DVC 4ohm sub but running in 2ohms. If I run that off the Alpines 3&4 channels bridged, wont i only get 100W to the sub? THats not near enough.



You are better off with a 5 ch amp to keep things simple with your 2 ohm sub, and you are wrong about the rear fill, rear fill is good but no amplification is needed, it gets complicated setting gains, and if your HU does not have separate crossovers for front and rear you will run in to issues unless you dont care about a good front stage and just want loud music inside the car, maybe use the fader and that will be a waste.

A good 50x4 amp bridged to mono mode will give you 170 watts, more than enough for your sub except it is a 2 ohm. A good 125x4 ch amp bridged to mono will give you over 250watts, more than enough for most subs under $100.00.

Have thought about selling your sub and amp together and get a better 4 ohm sub and good 4 ch amp instead? unless you are happy but there are many good subs and sometimes it is better to upgrade for better sound and keep things simple.

If you want to keep your existing system, simply add another line, 8 guage for the alpine 4 ch little amp you plan to purchase and do not deal with dist blocks, fuses and extra complex things.

Good Luck!


----------



## Mayosandwich (Sep 9, 2012)

Alrojoca said:


> and you are wrong about the rear fill, rear fill is good but no amplification is needed, it gets complicated setting gains, and if your HU does not have separate crossovers for front and rear you will run in to issues unless you dont care about a good front stage and just want loud music inside the car, maybe use the fader and that will be a waste.


No fill is needed on the rears? My only concern is that my rears are 90W RMS and only getting 22W each from the HU. From what I know I only have a fader on my HU for for the rears, no seperate crossovers.



> Have thought about selling your sub and amp together and get a better 4 ohm sub and good 4 ch amp instead? unless you are happy but there are many good subs and sometimes it is better to upgrade for better sound and keep things simple.


Havent considered selling cause I love my sub and how it performs. The sub and amp has never given me problems and the sub is only a year old. Figure if it aint broke dont fix it. Especially after blowing 2 previous subs.



> If you want to keep your existing system, simply add another line, 8 guage for the alpine 4 ch little amp you plan to purchase and do not deal with dist blocks, fuses and extra complex things.
> Good Luck!


Will be getting 

20ft amp wire
20ft remote wire
Two 25ft RCAs
Four 15ft 12g speaker wire

Been calling around, everyone wants $4-5/ft for the amp wire which is ridiculous. Speaker wire and RCAs ill get from home depot.


----------



## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Mayosandwich said:


> No fill is needed on the rears? My only concern is that my rears are 90W RMS and only getting 22W each from the HU. From what I know I only have a fader on my HU for for the rears, no seperate crossovers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


PM me I'll get you the best price on JL power and ground wire as well as 12g speaker wire.


----------



## NoAudioFile (Aug 6, 2013)

Angrywhopper said:


> PM me I'll get you the best price on JL power and ground wire as well as 12g speaker wire.


Is this offer extended to everyone? hehe


----------



## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

Basically both can get just as loud before the sound becomes uncomfortable. However, a dedicated amplifier will have more dynamic range with less distortion. This will result in a more detailed, less fatiguing sound, usually with improved imaging and such if your speakers are revealing enough.


----------



## ccapil (Jun 1, 2013)

5 pages, really!?


----------



## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

NoAudioFile said:


> Is this offer extended to everyone? hehe


Sure


----------



## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

ccapil said:


> 5 pages, really!?


This


----------



## eharri3 (Jan 4, 2009)

More clean power = more clear volume = finer musical detail and better sound quality.


----------

