# The Magic Bus will be at CES!



## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

For those of you attending the 2012 Consumer Electronics Show, I’m pleased to announce that, for the first time ever, the world-famous “Magic Bus”, will be available for you to see and hear! I cordially invite you to experience the ONLY mobile audio system in the world to appear on the cover of *the abso!ute sound*® magazine as *“The World’s Best Car Stereo”*. The Magic Bus will be exhibited at The Home Entertainment Show, or "T.H.E. Show" for short, at the Flamingo Hotel in Las Vegas, NV, on January 10-13, inclusive (www.theshowlasvegas.com), and will be located near the “Red Rock” rooms, out-of-doors, conveniently near T.H.E. Show’s Main Exhibit Floor. There will be plenty of signs and personnel available to direct you to the Magic Bus. The Flamingo is just a short distance from the Las Vegas Convention Center, conveniently accessible using the Las Vegas Monorail (www.lvmonorail.com). 

For those unfamiliar with my work, the Magic Bus is my lifetime masterpiece, and considered by many to be a mobile audio system without rival (please refer to the publications and endorsements at www.whitledgedesigns.com). The Magic Bus' audio system, installed in an unconventional, but acoustically favorable, Mercedes Sprinter van, was designed purely for sound quality and comprises of nine *Dynaudio* loudspeaker transducers, powered by six *Genesis* amplifiers capable of producing 4,620 Watts! Each of the six loudspeaker transducers (two Esotar tweeters, two MW150 midranges, and two MW180 woofers) in the two-channel, three-way, stereo front sound stage are powered by a dedicated monoblock amplifier and actively controlled by a dedicated channel of the 96 kHz - 24 bit digital signal processor (*Alpine*’s F#1 Status PXI-H990). The mono subwoofer, comprises of three large *Dynaudio* Esotar subwoofer transducers powered by three Genesis amplifiers capable of producing 3,300 Watts! The 300-pound subwoofer enclosure was laminated from multiple layers of Baltic birch, and resides on properly tuned military-grade generator mounts. A seventh channel of the digital signal processor actively controls the subwoofer system, which has full, proportional output down to 10 Hz!

As most audiophiles know, audio systems are only as good as the room in which they are installed. The scientifically designed, and computer-optimized, acoustics inside the Magic Bus takes mobile audio listening to a new height with an unprecedented balance of studio quality reverberation times. This remarkable achievement was made possible by an industry-first use of 54 acoustically functional panels, consisting of *34 Helmholtz absorbers and 20 binary amplitude diffusers*, resulting in what surely must be *the highest performance mobile listening room ever built*. To combine functionality with aesthetics, a prominent interior designer coordinated the colors and fabrics for the Magic Bus’ interior, which includes suede-covered headliners, custom carpeting, and acoustically functional draperies and window valances. The entire audio system, its supporting infrastructure, and the acoustical treatments weigh over 3,000 pounds! Although the interior of the Magic Bus, and its audio system, were meticulously tuned using state-of-the-art computer-based measurement systems, Steve McCormack (www.smcaudio.com), legendary audio component designer, performed the final system voicing by ear. The audio system took more than *9,800 hours to build and tune over the course of 6-1/2 years*. 

*Robert Harley*, Editor-in-Chief of *the abso!ute sound*® magazine, heard the newly completed Magic Bus at T.H.E. Show Newport Beach (June 2011) and wrote in his show highlights,

“Jon Whitledge showed the latest incarnation of his ‘Magic Bus’, a van that houses what I called ‘The world’s best car stereo’ when I heard it five years ago. Since then, Whitledge has taken the system to an entirely new level of performance. The design, construction, passion, and dedication that went into the Magic Bus are unprecedented, and it showed in the sound quality. The system had effortless dynamics, very high resolution of low-level detail, and tremendous timbral fidelity, throwing a soundstage that rivaled that of a well-set-up home system.”

Other prominent audio industry veterans have also heard the Magic Bus and commented on its performance ...

“The Magic Bus by Jon Whitledge defines a new standard for mobile audio. I had the pleasure, via my company Straight Wire, of being involved with many of the top sound quality competition and demonstration vehicles since the mid 90’s. The Magic Bus is a testament to Jon Whitledge’s vision and great efforts to produce a moveable high end aural experience that will captivate all who have the pleasure to listen.”
*-- Steven Hill / President / Straight Wire*

“Sound like none other - ‘music from the inside’ - the goal of those with ears and hearts that care for what is left on earth as truth and beauty!”
*-- Jim Merod / Writer & Reviewer / Positive Feedback & Enjoy The Music*

“Absolutely phenomenal - both in terms of the result, and also the fantastic amount of work he has put into it. His ‘Magic Bus’ audio van is far and away the highest-performance audio system I have ever heard on wheels, but more importantly, it rivals the best home systems in many ways.” 
*-- Steve McCormack / Designer / SMc Audio and McCormack* 

“Audio References for me are based on tonal quality, stage height, width and depth and install quality. And until recently, there was not one vehicle that encompassed all of these characteristics. So I guess you could say I had many references. Jon’s van encompasses all of these, and even raises the stakes by smacking around many of the high-end home systems I’ve heard. Jon has worked, and will continue to work, very hard to achieve unparalleled excellence in his designs. This vehicle has been regarded as the best sounding vehicle many of the home and pro audio guys have ever heard, and they are a hard bunch to convince.”
*-- Paul Messett / Sales and Marketing Manager / Cascade Audio Engineering*

“It is always a pleasure when you discover someone focused on following his or her passion. As a musician & producer, I have learned to gravitate towards people like this, for there is where you find the single-mindedness necessary to create the very special things in life ... Jon Whitledge loves musical performance. He has devoted himself to creating the ultimate automobile audio system. Armed with his extensive knowledge, ingenuity and attention to detail, along with the dedication of countless hours, he has produced a mobile listening environment that rivals the experience of being present when the music was created… In these days of minimization, compression and dithering, it is a pleasure to come across someone interested in bringing out all the fullness and nuances of musical performance. On his system, my own recordings sounded as I remembered them in the studio.” 
*-- Chuck Perrin / Musician / Producer*

Notably, the Magic Bus is the only audio system in the world (to my knowledge) that is extensively autographed by Grammy award-winning, and otherwise famous and talented musicians. To date, I've acquired *over 200 musicians' autographs*, and continue to acquire more. I consider the Magic Bus a “rolling shrine” and a tribute to the musicians who light up our lives with harmony and sound. 

Because most of you will have traveled from all over the world to see and hear the Magic Bus, I feel you deserve the best listening experience possible. Therefore, I'll be conducting one-on-one listening sessions at approximately 5-minute intervals. That means only about 80 lucky people per day will get to experience the Magic Bus. Feel free to bring your favorite audiophile recordings on CD (44.1 kHz - 16 bit) or DVD-Audio (96 kHz - 24 bit). As a special treat, I'll be playing selected, recently recorded, ultra high-resolution (192 kHz - 24 bit) *BluePort Jazz* (www.blueportjazz.com) recordings. The realism of these recordings is simply jaw dropping! Once you hear these, you won't want to listen to CDs anymore!

As an added bonus, *Larry Mitchell*, Grammy Award winning producer, and guitar virtuoso (www.larrymitchell.com), will be performing periodically at my exhibit. Larry, a sponsored *representative for Ibanez guitars*, is a world-famous guitarist who toured with Rick Ocasek, Tracey Chapman, Billy Squire, and many others. Larry tours all over the world conducting guitar clinics, and took time from his busy schedule to support the Magic Bus! Because of this, we will attempt something that may never have been done before - we will attempt to play Larry’s live guitar feed directly into the Magic Bus’ audio system! For the first time ever, you’ll be able to experience live, uncompressed, electric guitar like you’ve never heard before! And wait until you see Larry play – simply incredible!

As a lover of music, I’ve attempted to build an audio system that re-creates that special moment in time when the music itself was created. With live music as my benchmark, I’ve engaged faithfully in the challenging and virtually impossible task of re-creating it. Larry and I cordially invite you to experience the sonic thrill of the Magic Bus and hear for yourself what others have said. We’d be honored to share it with you. 

Warmest Regards,
Jon R. Whitledge


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

Jon what happened to the sub enclosure? Were you not running an ISOBARIC setup?


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

dear AVIDEDTR,
i used the same enclosure! luckily, one Esotar sub "liked" the same volume as a pair of isobaric MW190s. the old design was what i called "the sugar ray leonard approach to bass", while the new design is what i call "the george foreman approach to bass". either design was/is excellent, but the new design is UNSTOPPABLE - you can throw ANYTHING at it - 1812 cannon shots, pipe organ - anything! i've had some of the greatest bassists hear my van and say they never heard reproduced bass that good. a great part of it is due to the phenomenal acoustical treatments. 
yeah, i know my website is not current. i'm simply too busy to update it. maybe soon. i you are at CES, please come to see and hear my Magic Bus. 
- jon


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i will make a point to listen to it this time Jon


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

awesome!


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Jon,
Can you talk some more about your helmholtz absorbers and diffusers? specifically, where were they placed and how did you come to decide to place them where they are?

Thanks,
Erin


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

bikinpunk said:


> Jon,
> Can you talk some more about your helmholtz absorbers and diffusers? specifically, where were they placed and how did you come to decide to place them where they are?
> 
> Thanks,
> Erin


x2

I'd love to hearabuot this too!!


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

quietfly said:


> x2
> 
> I'd love to hear about this too!!


x3.....


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

X4


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

great to hear, Jon! i'll see you up there!


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> Jon,
> Can you talk some more about your helmholtz absorbers and diffusers? specifically, where were they placed and how did you come to decide to place them where they are?
> 
> Thanks,
> Erin


for 250k I think Jon will apply the treatments for you...other than that, I believe it is pro-pry-ah-tear-e  I say this in fun. You have to admire the time and thought that went into his install


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

jtaudioacc said:


> great to hear, Jon! i'll see you up there!


great to hear your gonna make it up, see you at dinner on wed?

b


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## waxworkz (Nov 22, 2011)

man i want to go to CES, its been too long and SEMA just isnt cutting it for me any more


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## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

This is so cool. I am most definitely going to make a point to go by the Flamingo to hear this masterpiece. Maybe I can dig up my Car Audio mags from '08 where this build was chronicled.


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## violent b (Dec 12, 2011)

so is it a first come, first demo to the 80 people or do you have to sign up to take a listen? I would love to listen to this masterpiece.


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

*Magic Bus 2.0 - The best mobile audio system. *

Now with 5 listening rooms, and a sammich with every audition!

or
*
"The Competition"*

or

*“The World’s Bestest Car Stereo”*​*













*Frank​


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## autofile (Oct 25, 2005)

Wish I was going this year and we could hang out Jon'


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

el_chupo_ said:


> *Magic Bus 2.0 - The best mobile audio system. *
> 
> Now with 5 listening rooms, and a sammich with every audition!
> 
> ...


Isn't that a bit of an unfair advantage? That's not really a vehicle that can be driven around town on a Sunday afternoon. :rimshot:


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Damn too bad there is nothing like that in IL. I would love to go and see what real sq is all about. The only sq that i see or hear is in my car with Morel setup and missing processor which was just sold ;(. Does anyone know about any events in IL?


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

Dear El Chupo, OSN, and other detractors,

You are aware that I don’t post very much on this forum. Generally, I post things that I believe are significant and helpful to those who care to read my posts and links. And although topics about my Magic Bus and I have appeared in more than 45 threads on this forum, I have only posted one rebuttal, to the negative comments directed toward me or my work. 

Now I feel compelled to post a second rebuttal, similar to my first, to you who feel compelled to criticize or make a mockery of my work. At the very least, I feel your personal attacks against me are uninformed, unfair, inappropriate, and unprofessional. 

I believe that we should conduct ourselves with the utmost professionalism and enthusiasm for our industry. That means remaining silent when you don’t have anything positive to say. It means only giving advice if asked. It means supporting the success of others with the realization that their success ultimately leads to the success of the entire industry. And although everyone seems to feel “entitled” to his or her own opinion, we must remember that Plato said, “Opinion is the medium between ignorance and knowledge”. Furthermore, Voltaire said, “The history of human opinion is scarcely anything more than the history of human errors”. I hope you’ll consider these quotations the next time you wish to express your opinion.

For those of you who freely offer your mostly negative opinions, judgment, and criticism, I believe it is important to exercise restraint and respect. Nobody likes to be the victim of judgment and criticism. I believe a good rule to live by is not to criticize unless you have done, or can do, better than that which you are criticizing. Therefore, I would ask each of you to consider the Magic Bus (and my credentials which contributed to its design and fabrication) relative to your own car and your own credentials, and ask yourself if you surpass ALL of the following criteria:

1. Bachelor’s degree in Mechanical Engineering
2. Master’s degree in Polymer Science
3. 25 years of industrial experience in materials science, biomaterials, textiles, and valves and fittings
4. Advanced skills in woodworking
5. Advanced skills in composites fabrication 
6. Advanced composites research
7. Automotive, motorcycle, and small engine mechanics
8. CNC programming
9. Advanced knowledge and experience with machine tools technologies 
10. Technical writing 
11. Certified IASCA judge
12. Ten 1st-place trophies in sound quality (Rookie Class) 
13. Over 40 pages of publications in the absolute sound®, Car Audio and Electronics magazine, Entertainment Engineering, San Diego Reader, San Diego City Beat, and counting ...
14. $240,000 overall project budget for the Magic Bus (not counting labor!)
15. $63,000 dedicated directly to audio system (yes, $177,000 went into things besides the actual audio system such as the Sprinter van, tools, shelving computing equipment, business meals, postage and delivery, rent, utilities, office supplies, travel and lodging, advertising, and so on ...)
16. $50,200 in sponsorships (yes, that’s $113,200 into the audio system alone!)
17. 9,880 hours of labor
18. 4,620 Watts of audio system RMS power into 4 Ohms
19. 3,120 pounds of audio equipment and acoustical treatments
20. Over 200 autographs of Grammy award-winning, or Grammy nominated, or otherwise famous and/or important musicians, and counting ...
21. 34 scientifically-designed and tuned Helmholtz absorbers
22. 20 binary amplitude diffuser panels
23. Studio quality acoustics, validated by objective measurements
24 Two reviews by Robert Harley, Editor-in-Chief, _the absolute sound_®
25. Frequency response down to 10 Hz, validated by a calibrated Earthworks microphone
26. Special invitee to Alpine’s 30th anniversary celebration
27. Special invitee to the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest 
28. Special invitee to T.H.E. Show in Newport Beach
29. Over 1,000 hours dedicated to listening to live music over the course of 6-1/2 years. Perhaps another thousand more, over a span of 15 years.
30. Member of AES (“Audio Engineering Society”)
31. Read dozens of books and papers on acoustics, loudspeaker design, crossover design, head-related transfer function (“HRTF”), acoustical measurement systems and techniques, and so on. 

Of course any one of these criteria may not mean much, but if taken collectively, they represent a significant body of experience. If your car and your credentials do not surpass ALL the above criteria, AND you haven’t heard the Magic Bus on or After April 23, 2011, I suggest you refrain from criticizing my work. Instead, I suggest you do more research, work harder, listen to more live music, and create your own masterpiece worthy of high praise. I’ll be there to support you. And if you haven’t heard the Magic Bus since its completion, make an appointment with me to hear it. I’d be delighted to share it with you.

In conclusion, I would like to thank all of those who appreciate and understand what I’ve done with the Magic Bus. I’ve put my heart and soul into this project and much of my lifetime savings. The sacrifices I’ve made to design and build the Magic Bus go beyond what most would be willing to do. It is undeniably true that there are many things about the Magic Bus that put it in a class of its own. Furthermore, I appreciate those who have contacted me seeking advice on ways to improve their own system. It is rewarding to meet like-minded individuals who love mobile audio, and to know that I’ve helped a number of people achieve better sound quality. I wish that those who do not know me, and have not seen or heard the Magic Bus on or after April 23, 2011, would stop passing harsh judgment against my hard work. In addition, I wish that many of you would change your mindset from blogging about what someone else’s system lacks to blogging about what someone else’s system does well. Being able to identify weaknesses in another’s person system does not elevate your own stature within the industry – but leading by example does. I would like to receive more support and respect from the members of this forum, so we can work together to get the mobile electronics industry out of its “death spiral” and growing again, like gangbusters, in this admittedly rough economy.

Warmest regards,
Jon Whitledge
December 31, 2011


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Jon,
I'm not going to get involved in the drama. I really would just honestly appreciate an answer to the question I asked above. If you've got details on it elsewhere a link will be great. Really looking forward to your reply. No baiting or anything. Just genuinely trying to learn.

Thanks in advance,
Erin


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1356425-post75.html

Just out of curiousity, what helpful information have you posted that wasn't either talking about your Magic Bus or promoted your website? I looked at all 45 of your posts and I couldn't find anything.


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

Dear BigAl205,

I extended an invitation for you to hear something that I, and other industry experts, believe is something very special and one-of-a-kind. I've spent considerable effort, time, and money, showing the Magic Bus to audio enthusiasts. Are you coming to CES to hear the Magic Bus? If so, I look forward to sharing it with you.

I did not invite you to challenge any of my assertions. If you are genuinely interested in what reading about the Magic Bus, and applying may of the innovative principles I've employed, I suggest you start by reading my 7-part series of articles published in Car Audio and Electronics magazine, and my interview. Many have found my articles helpful. Some have copied my ideas.

How to Build an Audiophile Car Stereo System, Part 1 - Daily Drivers - Car Audio and Electronics

How to Build an Audiophile Car Stereo System, Part 2 - Daily Drivers - Car Audio and Electronics

How to Build an Audiophile Car Stereo System, Part 3 - Daily Drivers - Car Audio and Electronics

How to Build an Audiophile Car Stereo System, part 4 - Install Logs - Car Audio and Electronics

How to Build an Audiophile Car Stereo System, part 5 - Daily Drivers - Car Audio and Electronics

How to Build an Audiophile Car Stereo System, part 6 - Daily Drivers - Car Audio and Electronics

How to Build an Audiophile Car Stereo System, part 7 - Competition Cars - Car Audio and Electronics

How to Build An Audiophile Car Stereo System, an Interview with Jon Whitledge - Show Cars - Car Audio and Electronics

I hope these articles help. Certainly, one skilled in the art of audio would find these articles helpful, and would perhaps inspire others to form new ideas. I have not written Parts 8, and beyond, yet.

Warmest regards,
Jon


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

lol @ warmest regards. Happy New Year!


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

dear Bikinpunk,

what drama? i'm simply trying to maintain a little professionalism here on the forum. 

sorry my answer will be brief and grossly simplified. i don't have a great deal of time because i'm making preparations for CES. are you coming to hear the Magic Bus?

a Helmholtz absorber "sucks out" the bad frequencies. a binary amplitude diffusor is a flat panel acoustical diffusor patented by RPG. 

i determined, from first principles, the resonance modes inside the van (see articles cited in previous post). Helmholtz absorbers are best placed on walls and in corners. That's where all of mine are located. I played test tones at various frequencies and mapped out the entire inside of the van to prove where each frequency of interest produced the maximum SPL. then i attempted to place an absorber there. 

i used a bruel & kjaer handheld sound meter to experimentally determine the reverberation spectra. on my first attempt at treated the van, the experimental data showed that i needed more Helmholtz absorbers. so i built the stack of 18 absorbers you see in the lower left-hand corner of the van. six more absorbers, tuned to another frequency, reside ahead of those. the back doors have Helmholtz absorbers tuned to absorb the longitudinal primary mode. the results are shown in the graph included with my interview. the interior of the Magic Bus took three years of full-time work to design and build. if you heard the results, i suspect it would astound you. the bass is smoother and more articulated. 

the diffusors were placed on all surfaces that were nearly parallel. 

this is enough information to get you going. this is all i have time for. someday, i'll publish an article or a video explaining this in further detail.

warmest regards,
jon


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

jon w. said:


> I did not invite you to challenge any of my assertions.


I wasn't challenging your assertations. I'm sure that your vehicle sounds incredible. I was just wondering if you could hold a discussion about car audio without turning it into a self-promoting spectacle.


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

to Bing: I'm excited you wish to hear the Magic Bus, and i look forward to sharing it with you. I'll try to attend the prime rib dinner. are reservations required?

to JT: i look forward to hanging out with you and the SoCal DIYMA gang!

to Peter: i wish you could be there. sorry to miss you. thanks for all your support. for those who don't know, Peter was my first sponsor who approached me  i'll always be grateful. 

did i miss anyone who needs a reply?

happy new year!

jon


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

I'll take that as a "no"


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

Come on BigAl205, give me a break! are you always so critical? to be fair, others have accused me of self promotion, so here's what i wrote some time ago:

"For those of you who believe I am the most shameless self-promoter you’ve ever seen, I offer to you my sincere appreciation. Furthermore, I applaud all those who “shamelessly” self-promote their own work, especially if it helps the industry grow in a positive direction. In case the members of this forum haven’t noticed, the mobile audio industry is in a “death spiral”. We need to do our very best to attract new enthusiasts to the hobby. To do our part, we must elevate the standards in our industry. Fighting amongst ourselves as we strive to be “the best” does little to support the growth of our industry."

You still didn't answer my question: are you coming to CES? all i'm trying to do is inspire people to come and hear something truly special, all at my expense, i might add. i'm not a philanthropist - i'm in business to make money doing what i love. 

warmest regards,
jon


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

jon w. said:


> Come on BigAl205, give me a break! are you always so critical? to be fair, others have accused me of self promotion, so here's what i wrote some time ago:
> 
> "For those of you who believe I am the most shameless self-promoter you’ve ever seen, I offer to you my sincere appreciation. Furthermore, I applaud all those who “shamelessly” self-promote their own work, especially if it helps the industry grow in a positive direction. In case the members of this forum haven’t noticed, the mobile audio industry is in a “death spiral”. We need to do our very best to attract new enthusiasts to the hobby. To do our part, we must elevate the standards in our industry. Fighting amongst ourselves as we strive to be “the best” does little to support the growth of our industry."
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, I didn't see your question. No, unfortunately I'm way in the southeast and won't be able to make the trek, but I would love to hear it. 

BTW: I'm not against promoting your work, it's just the smug over-inflated ego that gets so many people upset. Good luck with it and Happy New Year.

Alan


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

This is the problem with the internet. Jon is a very humble guy and you can tell he really loves this hobby when you're face to face with him. Unfortunately you can't see the enthusiasm over the internet so I can see how it might be misinterpreted. 

I'm lucky to have spent about 30 minutes in the bus several months ago and it's everything it's claimed to be. Going to try and make it to CES.

Jon, I'm still planning on using your services, unfortunately life has gotten in the way these past couple of months.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

jon w. said:


> dear Bikinpunk,


You can call me Erin. Spelled like a girl.  



jon w. said:


> sorry my answer will be brief and grossly simplified. i don't have a great deal of time because i'm making preparations for CES. are you coming to hear the Magic Bus?
> 
> a Helmholtz absorber "sucks out" the bad frequencies. a binary amplitude diffusor is a flat panel acoustical diffusor patented by RPG.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply and no worries regarding it's breadth (or lack of). I am familiar with the concept of what these acoustic treatments do. However, I was hoping for some more detail on why you used them and how you came to determine the optimum placements. 

Given that these sorts of treatments are so large, I have to ask you how you would help the folks with more typical car stereos (or just, more typical cars, in general) determine if this is a good avenue and how they might best learn how to apply the principles. I understand you've provided data. That's certainly a start. The problem, however, is that your sprinter is such an anomaly when it comes to the standard car audio that very little can be directly applied. Nothing in car audio is a direct transplant from one vehicle to another but that's why I was hoping you could shed some light on your experimentation. 
The Helmholtz absorber, from what I understand is a pressure based treatment and rather singularly frequency based and the fact that you had to use so many to fight (assumedly) numerous modes makes it's usefulness to the rest of "us" a bit nebulous. Sadly, it seems a good DSP with narrow Q and multiple bands is what is really needed and I'm curious if there's a reason you didn't consider going that route given it's relative ease compared to the 18 panels you built. My guess is that the technology just wasn't readily available. Given that more and more DSP's now offer this type of correction, would you recommend that as a valid solution or do you still feel the mechanical treatment is better than the electrical? 

On another note, did you experiment with broadband absorption at all? I wonder if that would have helped you with some modes that were closely coupled. At some point absorption is about velocity rather than pressure (can't recall if this is simply the shortest geometrical distance divided by a quarter wavelength or not, if so, figure the shortest distance would be floor to ceiling or about 5' which gives you a quarter wave at approximately 56hz).

I've noticed in my efforts to reduce modes that there are a couple high amplitude ones spaced apart, but many small amplitude modes closer together in frequency. I've been studying different methods of treatment and to rid the smaller modes, broadband (velocity based) absorption seems to be more pertinent. The high amplitude modes lower in frequency are the issues I was looking to your research for. Still, I keep leaning toward a nice DSP with narrow Q and a lot of attenuation ability, given the size affliction of mechanical treatment.. 




jon w. said:


> Come on BigAl205, give me a break! are you always so critical? to be fair, others have accused me of self promotion, so here's what i wrote some time ago:
> 
> "For those of you who believe I am the most shameless self-promoter you’ve ever seen, I offer to you my sincere appreciation. Furthermore, I applaud all those who “shamelessly” self-promote their own work, especially if it helps the industry grow in a positive direction. In case the members of this forum haven’t noticed, the mobile audio industry is in a “death spiral”. We need to do our very best to attract new enthusiasts to the hobby. To do our part, we must elevate the standards in our industry. Fighting amongst ourselves as we strive to be “the best” does little to support the growth of our industry."


For what it's worth, I do a lot of self promotion but not in the public eye. I promoted myself to Klippel in order to gain about $15,000 worth of measurement gear from their company in order to test drivers for this site. I've also promoted myself and this site in order to gain special deals from various loudspeaker retailers so we can get our hands on new products to test. Of course, none of them signed my car. 
You can see the resultant directly here:
Klippel Reviews & Driver Specs - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality
and
Bikinpunks Product Review Forum - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality

This benefits everyone on this site and elsewhere, and, in fact, I too spend much of my own money and considerable amounts of my own time doing this (ie: 3am nights). Last I checked, I spent about $1200 total last year (2011) to fund materials and product costs up until I was able to get some donations and special pricing from vendors. I don't get paid a dime. Sometimes I think I should, to be honest. It's quite honestly like a 2nd full time job.
I do this on top of being a rocket scientist for the Missile Defense Agency (contractor) during the day. I'm not a materials engineer, but I've got stuff that'll kill your materials out of the sky. 



jon w. said:


> You still didn't answer my question: are you coming to CES? all i'm trying to do is inspire people to come and hear something truly special,* all at my expense*, i might add. i'm not a philanthropist -* i'm in business to make money doing what i love. *


And there it is. 
The difference I see in what I and others do and what you do is pretty well laid out in what I've quoted above. My problem doesn't come with your self promotion so much. My personal issue is what is _bolded_ above. You say you do this at your own expense... then turn around and say you're trying to make money doing something you love. In that case, I see no reason to complain (for a lack of better words) about your financial expense because, frankly, it's then an investment in to your own business. 

Many, MANY people who are in this hobby do much of what they do to help the entire audio community as a whole. I have friends who have purchased websites to provide content and a discussion format. I have friends who pay out of their own pockets to host MECA events. I've hosted a GTG every year the past 3 years and have recently had a Music Hall of Fame producer attend my last meet. He brought over a lot of gear and set it up for everyone to demo as a reference setup and offered his insight in to their stereo (or otherwise) systems. I'm hoping this year's event will be a special one with some tuning seminars and/or blind speaker testing to learn a bit more about psychoacoustics and compare these results to measured results on the Klippel machine. I have friends who drive days to attend meets and competitions all with the primary goal of spreading the car audio 'gospel' and help others learn a bit more. Of course, again, none of those people have signatures from Jazz musicians on their subwoofer boxes or a-pillars. Some of 'em don't even rock stickers. 

I've spent many nights testing equipment and posting data such as in the links above to help everyone here learn a bit more, including you if you ever happen to view the data. It often goes unnoticed but I still do it. As do others such as Mark K (a person I have a lot of respect for) and Zaph (who has since turned his hobby in to a side business but I certainly wouldn't lump him in the same category as you; and I don't necessarily mean that as a compliment toward you). To toot my own horn (since apparently we're allowed to do that more than my disdain for it allows), I'm probably the most passionate audio nut you'll meet at this given point in time. A year from now might change me but for the past year I've eat, slept, and breathed this stuff... all on the side of having a full time job and a one year old daughter. If I could make a living doing it, I absolutely would. And if I did, you wouldn't hear me complain about the time I spent doing it because it would be my job. For now, however, I have the luxury of binging and purging this stuff and occasionally whining about my efforts because at the end of the day, in case I haven't made it terribly clear, I bust my ass to provide information for everyone here to see and spend a lot of time studying just to make sure I can provide it in the best manner possible. So, again, as far as self promotion goes, I understand it. I just don't at all find it reasonable for you to expect us not to critique your business practices and business (ie: the bus) because apparently that's exactly what it is. FWIW, I'm operating under the assumption that you are still employed as an engineer and the bus is a side business. If it's full time, then multiply everything above by 20. 

Re: This bus.
I personally have never heard, and likely never will hear, you magic bus. You're in California. I'm in Alabama. I'm not about to fly out there to hear a car stereo, even if it is the "world's best"... much less if it _really_ was the world's best. Which then leads me to the self-promotion aspect again and notably the "best car stereo" label you've either attained or given yourself (not sure which of the two this is). I liken it to Michael Jackson calling himself the King of Pop. It stuck and worked for him. I guess I can understand why you do what you do (gotta make money) but it is terribly misleading to title your vehicle as such when there are many more in this hobby with very good sound systems; in fact, some _may_ be better than yours. I understand at one time you competed and did well. I understand now, however, you don't compete. So, I'm skeptical of the "Best car stereo in the world" title for obvious (and logical) reasons when I really have nothing to compare it to. Side Note: I don't really care if onlookers think competitions are a realistic pointer to what sounds good. I think for the sake of this topic we can agree to disagree since we're somehow OK with taking things on face value alone, much less having something to be a relative indicator.


At the end of the day there are various reasons we're all here. I'm here to learn, help, and satisfy my addiction while occasionally making myself feel a bit better by posting something smart just to get some praise; hey, I'm just being honest. Sad, maybe, but true. I imagine I'm not the only one posting things here to get a kick for themselves (ahem, self-promotion topic at hand). 
You've done a lot to teach and I certainly appreciate what you've done... in the past. However, your posts in the past year or even further back have centered around your accomplishments and (sometimes rather meaningless) titles and byproducts all in an effort to make money (you said it above; I'm using your words). Of course, you said yourself that as a singular, each of the accomplishments don't achieve the same as them collectively. I agree (ie: no idea why you bullet response down to 10hz as an achievement because I can fart in my car and achieve the same almost literally - gotta love transfer functions). Some of the achievements are cool, though. But, realistically, most of those were made through you ability to network and promote yourself to those who give you the opportunity to be recognized. I can't fault that at all. I just think it needs to be noted that the means was not accomplished by simple chance; you worked to get recognized and have since made it a source of income.

Of course, everything above can pretty much be summed up by yourself, rather ironically:


jon w. said:


> Fighting amongst ourselves as we strive to be “the best” does little to support the growth of our industry."


No one's fighting, because you've given that title to yourself already. What's there to fight for, right? 
There's no better way to help car audio collectively than to crown yourself a title that is not necessarily earned in full and promote yourself while talking down to your peers. It's not even the 'best' title that bothers me, really. It's the air of elitism that makes me cringe. It's this notion that you somehow have done your part and now you can just sit back in the big chair and dictate. You've done a lot in the past but that doesn't give you a pass, at least in my opinion, to come on forums and sell yourself in the manner you do. When I see a Jon W. post I automatically know that there will be mention of about 50 things that are trivial and 5 things that are cool. All followed by the encouragement to come and listen to this vehicle ... oh, and to bring $5 along to get the chance. All because your sole goal is to help the hobby. 

Believe it or not, there are actually many people trying hard to further this hobby. We're just not all at CES. 



--------------

For the record, I'm not a hater. If I were, I would've not spent as much time to give you a reply in the manner I did. 



- Erin


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

dear alan,

smug, over-inflated ego? you don't even know me! what i publish are facts. there is no ego involved. i don't appreciate your unkind remarks. 

jon


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

Dear Erin,

It seems like you had a great deal to get off your chest. It simply amazes me that I extend a gracious invitation to you to hear my audio system, with a Grammy award winning musician playing live guitar through the system, and all you can do is degrade my thread into a “Let’s all talk about what we don’t like about Jon, even though we don’t know him” diatribe. A simple reply such as “Yes, I plan to come”, or “No, I can’t make it” is all that is appropriate. 

Then you ask me about acoustical treatments, a topic so vast that no short answer is possible. Nonetheless, as a gesture of kindness, I attempted to answer your question briefly. I spent over three years designing, building, and measuring the performance of the interior. I told you what they were, why I used them, and how I determined where to place them. You replied by saying you understood what the acoustical treatments do. But, if you did, you wouldn’t be asking why I used them and how I determined where to place them, even after I told you why! Your logic confuses me. Here’s what you need to know – they work (I have the graph that proves it), and you need to hear them to know this. 

For some reason, you, and others, seem to think that what I’ve done in the Magic Bus doesn’t apply to cars. I don’t know how one can draw this conclusion. I wisely chose the Magic Bus purely on the basis of its sonic potential. It would be easy for me to design Helmholtz absorbers for cars, and cars have much to gain by their use. For $60/hr, I’d be glad to design some for you. And for the record, you’d be surprised by the number of prominent individuals who have asked me for advice about improving the sound in their car, and/or paid me to tune their car. 

If I had broadband acoustical problems, I would use broadband acoustical absorbers! Room modes are usually narrow band problems. Diffusion should always be broadband, however. 

DSP should not be used like a panacea. One must ALWAYS fix the room first. Read everything by Ethan Winer and Norman Varney and read The Master Handbook of Acoustics by F. Alton Everest.

I applaud your efforts in audio, and believe in your self-promoting activities. Please keep up the good work. 

When I made reference to “all at my expense” I was internally thinking more about the lack of appreciation expressed by those who muck up my thread with disparaging remarks. You are right - we all must do our own cost/benefit analysis. 

If you haven’t heard the Magic Bus, YOU DON’T HAVE AN OPINION. Let’s clear up something else. I didn’t arbitrarily “crown myself” the “King of Mobile Audio”. Robert Harley, arguably the most important reviewer in the home audio industry, was so impressed by my audio system that he called it “The world’s best car stereo”. I merely repeat what a respected reviewer said. And for the record, all who have heard the Magic Bus have not disputed Robert Harley’s proclamation. And then there are all the accolades from other industry experts, reviewers, and musicians as well. How can you possibly dispute this? If you achieved this level of success, you’d be proud, too, and promote the hell out it. You have no idea who has sat in the driver’s seat of the Magic Bus.

By the way, thanks for characterizing my recent accomplishments as “sometimes rather meaningless”! Frankly, some of my recent accomplishments are the ones of which I’m most proud. Did you know that T.H.E. Show Newport Beach turned out to be the largest high-end audio show ever? Wouldn’t you like to be invited to the first inaugural BluePort Jazz Festival and hang back stage with world-famous jazz musicians? 

In your last paragraph you go too far. You say I crown myself and talk down to my peers. Nothing could be further from the truth! People, who know me, know I have a passion for what I do, and I do it to the best of my ability. I’ve never spoken poorly of others’ audio systems. I’m known for offering genuine, unbiased advice, and I don’t disparage other brands. Worse still, you assume I’m an elitist, without even knowing me. If you knew me, you’d know I’m the kind of person who prefers to compliment what an audio system does well, rather than focus on its faults. 

For the record, I charged $5 to enter the exposition area at my event, solely at the request of the venue owner. There were a multitude of exhibitors to meet and Dynaudio provided a high-end home audio system for folks to enjoy. In addition, there was a 723-picture slideshow detailing the fabrication of the Magic Bus from start to finish. Listening to the Magic Bus was free, as it always is.

Frankly, I don’t appreciate how you, and a few others, jump so readily to erroneous conclusions about the Magic Bus and I. That is extremely disrespectful and unprofessional.

You don’t think I know other people are trying hard to promote audio? I admire and respect those people. But when a few people exhibit “sour grapes” about my accomplishments, it makes those individuals look resentful and disgruntled for not achieving the fame they feel they “deserve”. 

I’ve seen how these forum discussions generally degenerate into a “game of winning” by any means necessary. Usually, the process goes on forever and degrades to the eventual exchange of insults. I’m not into that. My goal is NOT to “win” against you. My goal is to gain your respect and support. My goal is to get you to WANT to hear the Magic Bus. 

So please, don’t ask more questions, or respond with more disparaging remarks.


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

Dear BuickGN,

thanks for the kind words and support. i'd love to see you at CES  i anxiously await the opportunity to tune your system, but only when you are ready. i've been following your wonderful progress.

best,
jon


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

Jon, I posted a thank you for Erin's post, because he wrote a great deal I could relate to. After reading your reply to him it is obvious you read a lot of different things into that post than I did. I'd suggest reading that post again without the defences up. You might learn why you get the reactions on here that you don't like.
I do admire your work. I've read your 7 part essay in the past and used it to my advantage. But I do understand where the negative reactions are comming from. You posted this:


jon w. said:


> And although everyone seems to feel “entitled” to his or her own opinion, we must remember that Plato said, “Opinion is the medium between ignorance and knowledge”. Furthermore, Voltaire said, “The history of human opinion is scarcely anything more than the history of human errors”. I hope you’ll consider these quotations the next time you wish to express your opinion.


Now think about the line: “The world’s best car stereo”. 
Wasn't that just an opinion as well? Granted the one who stated that title had heard a lot of sytems, Home and maybe even Car related but it's still just another opinion.

A title like that and the way you defend it isn't going to help your cause. The 7 part essay is doing much more good than that little line. Your car has come up more than once on this forum and it can be a great source of information, something to learn for those willing to grasp and understand it. But the way you seem to present it does not help promote that part of it.
I am sure enthausiasm and pride from your side (well deserved) has something to do with the way you promote it but you have to understand that in writing a lot of that gets lost and could be interpreted differently as you did with Erin's post (IMHO).

I have no opinion about your car though, other than the fact that I would not want to trade in my car for yours for a better enjoyment of car audio. I am into cars as well as music/audio and I couldn't see myself driving something like that on a daily basis. 

I hope you have a great show on CES and hope to read a lot of reviews from those that get to hear your car. I'm on here to learn more about this hobby and both you and Erin as well as many others on here can do a wonderfull job teaching someone like me. I'll make sure to try and pass on what I have learned to keep this passion about the enjoyment of audio alive.


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## backpachyderm (Dec 17, 2010)

With all the time spent on your degrees, maybe you could've snuck in a psych class or two to understand that people don't liked to be talked down to. I respect and thank Erin for his contributions even though his testing results and discussions are mostly above my head. I've probably learned more from his posts than anyone I've ever read. Your's, not so much.

And yes, this is a critique. If you don't want negative comments, I'd heed my 2-bit, high school dropout advice and stop posting on the Internet. Especially with your attitude.

The one thing I can say for The worlds best car stereo (TM) from what I have seen, is at least it's ugly.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

backpachyderm said:


> The one thing I can say for The worlds best car stereo (TM) from what I have seen, is at least it's ugly.



Really? So you start by saying people don't like being talked down to and you follow it up by making fun of the way his vehicle looks? A dedicated SQ car whose only purpose in life is to sound good, looks are probably not a priority though it's quite nice on the inside. 

Say what you want about Jon's percieved attitude but I've never heard him make fun of someone else's stuff.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

BuickGN said:


> Really? So you start by saying people don't like being talked down to and you follow it up by making fun of the way his vehicle looks? A dedicated SQ car whose only purpose in life is to sound good, looks are probably not a priority though it's quite nice on the inside.
> 
> Say what you want about Jon's percieved attitude but I've never heard him make fun of someone else's stuff.


Well said


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

jon w. said:


> Dear Erin,
> 
> It seems like you had a great deal to get off your chest. It simply amazes me that I extend a gracious invitation to you to hear my audio system, with a Grammy award winning musician playing live guitar through the system, and all you can do is degrade my thread into a “Let’s all talk about what we don’t like about Jon, even though we don’t know him” diatribe. A simple reply such as “Yes, I plan to come”, or “No, I can’t make it” is all that is appropriate.


That's not at all what I read in Erin's post.


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

dear violent b,

i sincerely appreciate your interest in seeing and hearing the Magic Bus. sorry for my delayed reply - as you can see, i've been busy with other matters of importance 

in invite you to contact me privately via email to make an appointment, say for weds, thurs, or friday. tues, the first day, may be too hectic to honor an appointment.

best,
jon


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## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

Mr. Whitledge, seriously man re-read Erin's post. He's not talking down at you. In fact I would venture to say most everyone in this thread admires what you have done. They would be silly to think otherwise. One thing you'll learn about this site the more you post and interact with us is that we are a collective of relatively similar minded gearheads who love car audio and love the satisfaction of extending our knowledge through research and hands-on experiences. Self-promotion is inferred in the title of our website! I can't wait to meet you next week and we can discuss more in person after I'm done drooling in your vehicle!


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## MaxPowers (Oct 25, 2007)

Jon, seems to me you have an attitude problem. If you cant take the slightest poke or jibe about your vehicle without going off on a rant you might to consider isolating yourself from others. I for one dont care to listen to your vehicle. I feel that any vehicle that has over three quarters of a million bucks invested in it (adding your labor which you value at $60 an hour) is pointless and wasteful.


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## [email protected] (Oct 21, 2009)

I came into this thread having never heard of Jon W or his Magical Bus, I Couldn't care less about either. I've came across people like Jon W in every "industry" I enjoy...I.e. Drag racing, engine building, small engine building/tuning, etc. It makes me laugh out loud when I read things like the 30+ reasons why Jon W shouldn't be spoken to with any criticism. Seriously, it makes you look egotistical, pompous, and honestly like a donkey. 
The whole "I have this degree, that degree, advanced skills in this and that is laughable. Sure you are a very smart individual who went about building your dream audio system in a manner that most will never go. I'd venture to bet you are the only person to build a car audio system so "scientifically". Congratulations on achieving what you set out to do. For most of us, we build what sounds good or great to us, not based on what computers tell us but by what our ears tell us and certainly not with a 250k budget.you must be one very very wealthy man to blow that kind of money on a sound system, feel free to share the wealth. I'd bet good money that you are among a very small group of people who purchase a vehicle specifically to build an audio system in. Not many folks can afford to do that and most wouldn't. We buy cars that we enjoy driving, like the looks of and can reasonably afford.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

jon w. said:


> dear violent b,
> 
> i sincerely appreciate your interest in seeing and hearing the Magic Bus.
> in invite you to contact me privately via email to make an appointment, say for weds, thurs, or friday. tues, the first day, may be too hectic to honor an appointment.
> ...


Just once can you just say, "my van" when referring to your vehicle please?

All the ego of Steve Jobs with the subtlety of boxing promoter Don King.

BTW, Erin, well said. :thumbsup:

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

Sir Jon,

We have had a confrontation on this forum one time before about a similar issue. 

I have since shown quite a few people your website, and the pictures you have published about your bus. I have also learned quite a few things about the way your bus was built, and I intend to use those ideas in the future. I really enjoy the build log you have created - it is extremely inspiring to me.

also, I would love to hear your bus. I have been to a few competitions since our last confrontation, and I have been involved with an awesome group of individuals that have helped me learn more about audio as a whole. I would love to compare the things I have learned with what you have, however I am in new york, and it is almost a certainty that I will never meet you, or hear you bus.

I think the problem comes when we read what you are writing about your bus. It is awesome, just like a Bugatti Veyron, or the NASA Atlantis space shuttle, or a Nimtz Class Aircraft carrier, even Lockheed Martins' SR-71 Blackbird. You put a lot of time, money, and effort into your creation - but when we read some of this things you say, it feels like you are talking down to us.



> In your last paragraph you go too far. You say ... talk down to my peers. Nothing could be further from the truth!





> My goal is to get you to WANT to hear the Magic Bus. So please, don’t ask more questions...




in no way, shape, or form, am I trying to tell you that I am better, or you are worse - *the fact of the matter here is that we [everyone on this forum] are peers.* We [you and I] are both men, and I intend to treat you just like my professors in college, or a class mate that asked me for help.

I guess what people on this forum would like to see is the build log that I described above. People on the forum or in real life that are not affiliated with the industry do not care who has signed the door, or who plays the guitar. real people want to see cool stuff. most people dont even care about what we think is cool. the fact is, almost everyone i showed your build pictures thought that it was ugly\unreasonable\ect, and only a few audio guys thought it was cool.

what im trying to get at sir, is thins like this;



> Now I feel compelled to post a second rebuttal, similar to my first, to you who feel compelled to criticize or make a mockery of my work. At the very least, I feel your personal attacks against me are uninformed, unfair, inappropriate, and unprofessional.


Jon, nobody prior to this was making a mockery of your work. for some reason you got offended from the picture of the house on a truck - when it was a little joke, nothing more. BigRed made a little jib, saying you would gladly apply the treatments to someones car if you were paid, and i am sure you would be happy to do this. *everyone else said they would be happy to hear your van*. so why did you get so mad and have to make a rebuttal against nobody?

this is what Erin meant about drama. quite honestly, we dont understand!

also, when Erin spoke of the application to cars, he meant it is extremely impractical to do any of this in a daily driven car, meaning - 99% of people can not justify making treatments that are so many inches thick on all parallel surfaces in the vehicle. that is all. 



> For those of you who freely offer your mostly negative opinions, judgment, and criticism, I believe it is important to exercise restraint and respect. Nobody likes to be the victim of judgment and criticism. I believe a good rule to live by is not to criticize unless you have done, or can do, better than that which you are criticizing. Therefore, I would ask each of you to consider the Magic Bus (and my credentials which contributed to its design and fabrication) relative to your own car and your own credentials


so basically, you are saying that you are better than all of us and we have no opinions? :worried:



> If you haven’t heard the Magic Bus, YOU DON’T HAVE AN OPINION.


on the topic of criticizing - everyone is entitled to whatever they would like to believe, regardless to weather they have done it\heard it\etc... the hard part is trying to honestly help someone who is thinking in the wrong way. everyone i showed your pictures had something to say about the bus, whether it was good or bad - and not one of them had any of your credentials. that does not mean they are not allowed to judge your work. when I go to a museum and i do not like a piece of artwork - am i not allowed to speak my mind on what i like or dislike about the work depending on how good of an artist i am?

jon, please do not take anything i am writing as an insult - because i would genuinely love it if you would take place in some of the deep discussions on audio that everyone can read and learn from on our forum. the big problem with the internet is that people have no repercussions for their actions or words - and therefore decided they can speak to anyone however they'd like. i have gotten this treatment, and it seems you have as well - but all you need to do is look past their negativity at the positive comments. 

as far as i am concerned, you may represent your accomplishments however you'd like on this forum, that is none of my business. but please, try and see that most of us (trolls excluded) only offer our opinions, and you do not need to defend yourself against our ideas - only put forth your knowledge as you understand it.






so jon, i think you are an asset to the industry, i think that your bus is awesome (other than being a dodge hehe, that was a joke ...) and i think it would be awesome if you would share your knowledge in the forum for everyone who cares to learn more. unfortunately people will say negative things, or speak about things in a different way than you do. this causes issues, but in spite of trolls or people who criticize for fun, i think that this place can be a lot of fun. i know that you are a busy guy, but please try to look past all the naysayers, realize that most of us are your peers, and try to treat our ideas with as much respect as you think your ideas and accomplishments are worth.

that is all sir,
andrew


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## Neil_J (Mar 2, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Just once can you just say, "my van" when referring to your vehicle please?
> 
> All the ego of Steve Jobs with the subtlety of boxing promoter Don King.


x2. Excellent attention to detail on the Sprinter, I absolutely admire the wiring job. As for the shameless self-promotion, I'm still waiting for the little plastic Magic Bus with working doors and action figure to arrive at Wal-Mart.... Right next to the Star Wars and Harry Potter action figures 

Posted from an earlier thread, but I still feel is relevant:


michaelsil1 said:


> He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Neil_J (Mar 2, 2011)

When I purchased my car last June, I named it Sergeant Pepper after the Beatles album. I don't make everyone call it that though, and rarely even say it myself (and have never even mentioned that it had a name on diyma). It's just my damn car, or 'my car' for short. 

Yea, the "Magic Bus" thing is cute about the first three times... After that, not so much.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

To those who asked about the helmholtz resonator...
I was looking in to perforated aluminum to hold back the roxul I'm using in my car (god, it's an ugly mess!). While searching, I found some good information regarding Transparency Index, which is a calculation of how transparent a given material is. You can find that information and more here:
http://www.iperf.org/IPRF_ACUSES.pdf

Since some of you folks were curious as I was about the helmholtz resonator, I thought you might enjoy the link as well. Some good information in there regarding singular frequency attenuation via a damper system (like the helmholtz).

- Erin


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

This thread is disappointing. Erin said what needed to be said early on. The rest is just people jumping on the bash Jon bandwagon. I've never seen so many perfect people who have never done any self promotion before or been proud of their creation before. I'll say it one last time not that anyone will read it but Jon is a humble guy, willing to share information and really excited to show the Bus off in real life. Keep in mind the internet does not show facial expressions or tone of voice.

I wish Jon would share more technical info on here as well so we could all learn but he's not required or obligated to share, especially when it's cost him a lot of time and money to obtain. It makes me appreciate Erins work a little more though.

So far people have insulted the looks, the name, the cost, the car used, his education, and who knows what else I missed. All because some people don't like the way he presents himself which Erin already took care of. 

Now I have to ask this last quesion, if some guy came up to you at a meet and said you have to hear my Magic Bus, it's been called the best sounding vehicle by whatever magazine and I've got this much money in it and I designed it using a scientific approach.... Not one of you guys would talk this nonsense to his face, you would walk over and listen to the vehicle. Why is it people see no problem with being so rude over the internet?

I ran into this problem in the late '90s running a 6 cylinder car up against the supposed "fastest" cars in town. In the beginning they talked trash because I was running something different than the rest. Once I started knocking off the so called quickest street cars and some trailer cars they started talking trash about everything from the car to me personally, to the amount of money I supposedly invested in the car. I never got mad because I had the luxury of calling them out on the spot. The internet unfortunately is a bit different. People can talk trash about something they've never heard before annonymously. 

I made some really neat advances in turbo technology, some of which I'm seeing talked about now and some I've never seen talked about. I was pressured by some of the local guys to share and on the internet as well. I've just started seeing guys on the internet running ~1-2psi of pre-turbo exhaust back presure maybe a few years ago. I figured that out in the '90s. That was no big deal though. The rest I'll probably never share.

It was through my own work and lots of money that I figured out the things I did and I wasn't about to share unless paid.

There have been some terrible things said on this site, personal insults, religious insults, and straight trolls since I've been here and somehow Jon seems to get under everyone's skin more than anyone else.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> This thread is disappointing. Erin said what needed to be said early on. The rest is just people jumping on the bash Jon bandwagon. I've never seen so many perfect people who have never done any self promotion before or been proud of their creation before. I'll say it one last time not that anyone will read it but Jon is a humble guy, willing to share information and really excited to show the Bus off in real life. Keep in mind the internet does not show facial expressions or tone of voice.
> 
> I wish Jon would share more technical info on here as well so we could all learn but he's not required or obligated to share, especially when it's cost him a lot of time and money to obtain. It makes me appreciate Erins work a little more though.
> 
> ...


If you have to list 31 reasons why you should be respected, you've lost any that you may have had to begin with.

However, you (BuickGN), I have a lot of respect for. 
You're one of the good guys on here. 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I think this entire thread is a waste. If you are so bothered by Jon and how he promotes himself then stay out of his self promoting thread.


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## jon w. (Nov 14, 2008)

dear BuickGN,

I sincerely appreciate your willingness to defend my character and my accomplishments. it takes courage to stand up for that in which you believe, especially on this forum. what surprises me is that other southern california diyma enthusiasts who have met me, discussed principles of audio at length, and listened to the Magic Bus for hours on end, have not risen to my defense. perhaps it's easier and less risky to "play it safe". 

thanks for being at least one voice of understanding and reason! i feel, as i'm sure many do, that you are a wonderful asset to the mobile audio industry.

i hope to see you at CES, perhaps even share dinner. if you like guitar, you'll love meeting Larry Mitchell! he just texted me and said he'll be playing weds, thurs, and fri.

warmest regards,
jon


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## BigAl205 (May 20, 2009)

BuickGN said:


> This thread is disappointing. Erin said what needed to be said early on. The rest is just people jumping on the bash Jon bandwagon. I've never seen so many perfect people who have never done any self promotion before or been proud of their creation before. I'll say it one last time not that anyone will read it but Jon is a humble guy, willing to share information and really excited to show the Bus off in real life. Keep in mind the internet does not show facial expressions or tone of voice.


Critiquing is not the same as insulting. It's one thing to be proud of what you have accomplished, but another to put it on a pedestal for all others to bow down to.




> So far people have insulted the looks, the name, the cost, the car used, his education, and who knows what else I missed. All because some people don't like the way he presents himself which Erin already took care of.


 Yet somehow he took this as an insult.



> Now I have to ask this last quesion, if some guy came up to you at a meet and said you have to hear my Magic Bus, it's been called the best sounding vehicle by whatever magazine and I've got this much money in it and I designed it using a scientific approach.... Not one of you guys would talk this nonsense to his face, you would walk over and listen to the vehicle. Why is it people see no problem with being so rude over the internet?


If somebody came up to me and said "I'm proud to give you the opportunity to listen to the Golden Chariot (TM), a vehicle which has been touted the best car audio system by a prestigious home audio magazine. My resume includes:

1. I'm a machinist by trade
2. I read a lot of car audio magazines
3. I once met Steven Spielberg
4. I've got a degree in Business Management
5. I know how to ride a bike
6. The listening position is perfectly centered between all of the speakers
7. etc..."
...then yeah, I might have a few words for him.



> I ran into this problem in the late '90s running a 6 cylinder car up against the supposed "fastest" cars in town. In the beginning they talked trash because I was running something different than the rest. Once I started knocking off the so called quickest street cars and some trailer cars they started talking trash about everything from the car to me personally, to the amount of money I supposedly invested in the car. I never got mad because I had the luxury of calling them out on the spot. The internet unfortunately is a bit different. People can talk trash about something they've never heard before annonymously.


 Did you always _start _your conversation by telling everybody that you had the fastest car because your motor is scientifically designed to do "x" horsepower?




jon w. said:


> dear BuickGN,
> 
> I sincerely appreciate your willingness to defend my character and my accomplishments. it takes courage to stand up for that in which you believe, especially on this forum. what surprises me is that other southern california diyma enthusiasts who have met me, discussed principles of audio at length, and listened to the Magic Bus for hours on end, have not risen to my defense. perhaps it's easier and less risky to "play it safe".
> 
> ...


So BuickGN is a wonderful asset to the community because he came to your defense, but Erin is a useless troll because he dared to make a negative remark? Maybe the reason the other SoCal guys aren't coming to your defense is because they agree that your internet presence needs some polishing.

Jon, in person you may be the nicest, most humble guy in the world, but the way you present yourself on the internet is what everybody dislikes. This is not an insult, it's the truth.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

el_chupo_ said:


> *“The World’s Bestest Car Stereo”*​*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


C'moooon, that was genius. Even Sir Jon Mckellen must have chuckled at that one.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

BigAl205 said:


> Critiquing is not the same as insulting. It's one thing to be proud of what you have accomplished, but another to put it on a pedestal for all others to bow down to.


This is the part where I talked about perception.


BigAl205 said:


> Yet somehow he took this as an insult.


Those were insults.


BigAl205 said:


> If somebody came up to me and said "I'm proud to give you the opportunity to listen to the Golden Chariot (TM), a vehicle which has been touted the best car audio system by a prestigious home audio magazine. My resume includes:
> 
> 1. I'm a machinist by trade
> 2. I read a lot of car audio magazines
> ...


I completely understand what you're saying but he mentioned his qualifications in defense of some of the other posts.


BigAl205 said:


> Did you always _start _your conversation by telling everybody that you had the fastest car because your motor is scientifically designed to do "x" horsepower?


Not at all. I only mention the car now because I don't race for money anymore. Several years ago I would probably be telling you how slow it is. While even now I might not give it's true performance away I don't mind talking about it since I just have fun every once in a while with it. Now ask me a question about it and I'll probably talk for days lol.

It's a little different with an audio system though. He's proud of it, he wants to show it off.


BigAl205 said:


> So BuickGN is a wonderful asset to the community because he came to your defense, but Erin is a useless troll because he dared to make a negative remark? Maybe the reason the other SoCal guys aren't coming to your defense is because they agree that your internet presence needs some polishing.


I'm not an asset, the only thing I've done for the community is temporarily donate a midrange for Klippel testing. I mostly search and read. However, I didn't see Jon say anything negative about Erin.


BigAl205 said:


> Jon, in person you may be the nicest, most humble guy in the world, but the way you present yourself on the internet is what everybody dislikes. This is not an insult, it's the truth.


I'm not going to deny he comes across a little bold on the internet but I don't see why it bothers everyone so much compared to the other BS that's said on this board. I don't know why there's a thread dedicated to talking badly about him. You'll notice I didn't disagree with anything Erin said. Some people aren't on the internet that much. I look back at some of my posts from '00 on another board and just shake my head. It's not that I was a different person, I just didn't know internet etiquette. I can remember when I was at the track nearly every weekend (sorry for using the racing analogies all the time) and had races setup on the street (on private farm land) during the week and always trying new stuff, data logging, analyzing, improving, blowing stuff up, etc and I would check into the internet once every few months only to have people question everything I do, it got annoying. I'm not saying that is the case here, but it's just another perspective.


For the record, I barely know Jon. I spent about 30 minutes in the Bus and less than an hour total talking and listening with him. I also have no problems with anyone in this thread whatsoever. All I really intended to do is vouch for his character and the impression he made on me in a brief time and through e-mails. Literally, my whole point in all of this: He's a nice, humble guy in real life. I probably should have left it at that. You guys can think what you want (and I'm not saying that in a bad or sarcastic way) I just thought someone should say something, that's all.

I'm going to try not to post in this thread anymore because I've said what needs to be said but I'm home and sick with pneumonia still so I can't guarantee I won't get bored and put in my two cents again.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

A few thoughts from a so cal diyma guy here...I'm no Tolstoy so I have refrained from writing anything that would be taken the wrong way. 

All I have to say is, that in person, Jon is just as BuickGN described, friendly, humble, and helpful. I really appreciate his presence at the meets he's come to.

I can understand that how things are written can be taken the wrong way, especially on the internet. But, I try my best to not judge if I haven't met the person. Just like I can't always tell the quality of your installation or sound by a picture.

I just try to absorb everything around me and use what I can of anyone's input. I respect that with the "magic bus", Jon is bringing awareness, and excitement to car audio, as I do with diyma and other forums, car shows, sound offs, etc.

I do see both sides, and don't disagree with some of what's written, but basically just want to say, imo, you might not question what a helpful person Jon is if you got the chance to spend some time with him someday.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

I would also like to say, after talking to Jon for countless hours on the phone, he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. He is willing to share and talk about audio for literally hours. 

Now, please tell me who on here wouldn't take offense to the pic that was posted if you were in his shoes? Anyone? And if you say you wouldn't, you would be lying.

Now, lets talk about the monstrosity that nobody here would drive.....wait......yeah, I said DRIVE, which is something that MOST of the top cars in competition can't (or wouldn't be recommended to) actually do on the street, yet nobody makes fun of them! At least Jon can drive around town and enjoy his system....and he did all this without having to reform the dash or turn into 1 seat or turning it into a trailer-queen. 

Just because Jon won't come on this forum and answer countless questions about "which amp should I buy" or "best head unit for $400" doesn't mean he doesn't contribute. His CA&E article and his website alone has contributed more than (I would guess) 90% of this forum.....maybe 95%. And yes, he is trying to make money, SO WHAT!!!! Are you telling me Mark Eldridge isn't using his car to make money? And what was his last post on here??? 

My point (not trying to bash Mark) is that Jon is a great guy that needs to be given some level of respect.....if you don't like the way he presents himself on the internet, then don't comment in his thread. Period! Do you really think you are accomplishing anything by coming here and bashing him???


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Niebur3 said:


> Now, lets talk about the monstrosity that nobody here would drive.....wait......yeah, I said DRIVE, which is something that MOST of the top cars in competition can't (or wouldn't be recommended to) actually do on the street, yet nobody makes fun of them! At least Jon can drive around town and enjoy his system....and he did all this without having to reform the dash or turn into 1 seat or turning it into a trailer-queen.


Not to get off Topic, but the MAJORITY of top competition cars can and are driven, some daily.
Now if you want to post date this reference to a decade or more ago, when there were plenty of trailer queens actively competing, then thats one thing---but now a days and for about the last decade--trailer queens as a top competition car are the exception, not the norm--the vast majority are driven to and from show.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

I am talking about the top series that features....

Mark Eldridge, Chris Pate, Scott Buwalda, and many others that are purpose built (and gorgeous vehicles), but rarely driven. (I believe technically all these cars "can" be driven - since those are the rules - but don't believe they ever are). 

And I'm not even mentioning all the cars with reformed dashes that would not pass the standards in which car manufacturers have to abide by....i.e. loss of airbags or structural parts removed where audio equipment now resides (and you can't sell me that they are structurally sound again until you show me the crash tests with chunks out of the dash, firewall, kick panel, etc).


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Niebur3 said:


> I am talking about the top series that features....
> 
> Mark Eldridge, Chris Pate, Scott Buwalda, and many others that are purpose built (and gorgeous vehicles), but rarely driven. (I believe technically all these cars "can" be driven - since those are the rules - but don't believe they ever are).
> 
> And I'm not even mentioning all the cars with reformed dashes that would not pass the standards in which car manufacturers have to abide by....i.e. loss of airbags or structural parts removed where audio equipment now resides (and you can't sell me that they are structurally sound again until you show me the crash tests with chunks out of the dash, firewall, kick panel, etc).


IMO thats a gross over generalization of the vast majority of competition cars.

I get your point to an extent, but I think you are grossly over exaggerating and forgetting that There are ALOT more Top competition cars than just EXPERT vehicles.

and while Jon's newest version of the Van has never competed to my knowledge, when he did compete with the original version--It was under Novice--and I guarantee you that ALL novice and Amateur vehicles are registered, titled and inspected--and driven, most daily.

back on Topic


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

FWIW, I'm pretty sure the interior of Jon's car is MUCH more aesthetically appealing than mine.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Mark's car is driven around from time to time. Have be in for the ride more than once and it has also been on a race track more than once.

To be honest Mark has made a drop in the bucket of his car. If it exceeds more than $5,000 since he has owned/built it, I would be shocked. 

Mark does not post because he does not have time, hell he does not even have time to do some new stuff he wants to his own car. When you have a family, kids and a full time job that is how it usually goes.

Also at comps. Mark has jumped in and helped tune/tweak a ton of cars for free. Provided answers to anything you ask him and even look as someone else's car and make recommendations to them for free. 

I am on Mark's MSE Team now but even before that he helped tune my truck, tweak the install all free of charge. Even burned up one of his drills bits and was no big deal.

We also don't see Mark on forums trying to self promote himself or his car. Also when is the last time we ever saw him list his credentials.

So let's not lump Mark into any of this.

BTW-Last time Mark was on here was 2011 Patriot Autofest. It was to promote a car audio competition he was hosting that had proceeds going to a charity and all the trophies were donated by him from stuff he had won. He also donated out of pocket all the food and part of the raffle stuff. He made zero money and everything he bought he donated out of pocket.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

My point wasn't to bring Mark or anyone else into to this (character wise) just pointing out that many bash Jon for his choice of vehicle and the practically of it, while I have never read anything questioning the practically of owning/competing a former NASCAR. Like I also said, the car MAY be able to be driven, but is rarely and NOT a daily driver like Jon's van is. 

I have talked to Mark at Finals and he seems like a very nice guy. I have also talked with Jon for hours upon hours on the phone and he also is a very nice guy, same with Scott and Chris. In fact, I haven't met many sq guys that aren't nice and helpful. Maybe his internet skills could use some work, but believe me, he is very intelligent and humble guy to talk with in person and has given me countless hours of help/advice for "no charge" as well.


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

I've talked to Jon, Scott, Earl, Mark, and a host of others, and they all have been amazingly nice. I think the issue here is one of perception. I think by virtue of the things Jon has posted, and the way they are interpreted, the idea of what he is like as a person comes off wrong. I think we should all just let it be, and talk about our experiences after hearing the bus. after all just a like a good pierogie the bus should stand or fall on its own merits not the accomplishments or accolades of the one that built it. 
JMO YMMV


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

quietfly said:


> I've talked to Jon, Scott, Earl, Mark, and a host of others, and they all have been amazingly nice. I think the issue here is one of perception. I think by virtue of the things Jon has posted, and the way they are interpreted, the idea of what he is like as a person comes off wrong. I think we should all just let it be, and talk about our experiences after hearing the bus. after all just a like a good pierogie the bus should stand or fall on its own merits not the accomplishments or accolades of the one that built it.
> JMO YMMV


Great post to end this on.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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