# Dash Console Sub Project



## BowDown

Well in an effort to get better bass impact up front I'm looking to install an 8" Elemental Designs 9kv.2 in a custom sealed fiberglass enclosure where the dash center console once lived.

Here's a pic with the console removed:










I'm going to be relocating the vents, heads up display, and pushing the headunit down to the bottom of the stereo bezel where the 'CD Pocket' lives. 

Should be a fun project. The sub will be fed by my Alphasonik @ 300watts RMS. 

Stay tuned for more mock-up/cutting/fabrication.


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## ChiTownSQ

That is a good chunk of real estate to use! Good Luck, hope this works out!..

Are you going to hide the woofer or try and get as much space from it as possible and have it bulge out of the cubby there?


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## BowDown

All depends on what I discover during mockup. I'm going into the project with the thought of aiming the baffle below the surface of the dash, and putting a stealth trim/grill piece over top to make it appear stock.


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## Mic10is

Make an enclosure. attach to firewall. Drill some holes in the firewall and run it infinite baffle so you get better low end response.


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## BowDown

Mic10is said:


> Make an enclosure. attach to firewall. Drill some holes in the firewall and run it infinite baffle so you get better low end response.


:lol: While IB does sound fun.. I doubt with that huge metal cross member support I'd be able to touch the firewall.. nor would I want to cut a hole in my firewall connecting the cabin to the engine compartment. lol. Tis a daily driver.


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## Mic10is

If you can seal off the underside of the dash really well, you could also get away with using a variovent behind the speaker.


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## BowDown

Ya that is an idea. If I have the sub on 2 extreme planes I might be able to keep the waves separate enough to fend of cancellation. Should be a pretty good separation if i was to vent on the back or bottom side. Have a source for such vents?


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## BowDown

Looks like madisound has the scan speak version for $7. Good deal. 

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=404_85&products_id=1323

Just bought one. $12.95 shipped.


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## Notloudenuf

Ok, I'm interested.
Subscribing to see what happens.


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## theRESONANCE

This is going to be interesting!

I've never seen those aperiodic vents before..Really interesting.. i might incorporate one of them in my build.


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## n_olympios

I'm here, and I'll be following this thread.


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## quality_sound

This build wil be interesting but you don't need an 8 in your dash to get up front bass.


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## BowDown

I have up front bass now. That's not what this project it for. Its to create more bass impact up front.


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## mattyjman

tuning in for this build... i really liked your last one as well. 

have you thought about larger midbass drivers up front? I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for, but if it's "impact", a lot of that is from the midbass frequencies


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## BowDown

Possibly but I do like the idea of killing 2 birds with 1 stone. If I can take the sub up to about 120hz... that will take alot of weight off my midbasses.


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## mattyjman

i'm not sure how much you have played around with different frequencies and such, but if you ever want to identify the area that you feel you are lacking, get an amp, plug in a sub or midbass speaker, play your favorite "midbass"y track, and as it's playing, swing the lp filter up. if you pass 120 and it's still not "punching" you like you think it should, then you are focusing on the wrong frequencies. 

i know you are not focusing on the elusive "midbass" frequencies, but when you say you want "better bass impact up front" i think the same thing. however, I don't feel it'll come from a sub. but that's just my opinion. 

i have watched your build log previously, and can't help but think that the weak link is not the sub, but rather your choice of midbass drivers. i have never heard them, so this is just conjecture, but two drivers with that little cone area can't possibly give the midbass "punch" that you would expect in those frequencies. 

i'm not trying to crap all over your thread and idea at all, i think this will be cool if you go through with it. however, before I would go through the relocation of vents, fiberglass, moving radio and ac controls, etc, i would attempt to get more cone area in your midbass region... 

just my .02 cents


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## BowDown

Possibly correct. The midbasses I selected while having a smaller cone area (I already owned them) have a long xmax. They can move a bit of air. Being crossed over from 80hz to 450hz gives them a decent sweet spot. I have played with the eq a bit and some tracks have more punch than others... But anything over 80hz @ 18db I can start to localize the sub. About the 120hz crossover point is when I can start to feel in my back the area I'm missing. So maybe it is in the bottom of the midbass range.. But an upfront sub can't hurt.. Will I swap out the midbass for the 6.5" version in the future? Possibly. Lol.


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## mattyjman

BowDown said:


> But an upfront sub can't hurt..


true that.... i look forward to seeing the progress


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## Mic10is

mattyjman said:


> i'm not sure how much you have played around with different frequencies and such, but if you ever want to identify the area that you feel you are lacking, get an amp, plug in a sub or midbass speaker, play your favorite "midbass"y track, and as it's playing, swing the lp filter up. if you pass 120 and it's still not "punching" you like you think it should, then you are focusing on the wrong frequencies.
> 
> i know you are not focusing on the elusive "midbass" frequencies, but when you say you want "better bass impact up front" i think the same thing. however, I don't feel it'll come from a sub. but that's just my opinion.
> 
> i have watched your build log previously, and can't help but think that the weak link is not the sub, but rather your choice of midbass drivers. i have never heard them, so this is just conjecture, but two drivers with that little cone area can't possibly give the midbass "punch" that you would expect in those frequencies.
> 
> i'm not trying to crap all over your thread and idea at all, i think this will be cool if you go through with it. however, before I would go through the relocation of vents, fiberglass, moving radio and ac controls, etc, i would attempt to get more cone area in your midbass region...
> 
> just my .02 cents



I agree
No replacement for displacement.
I would never run a sub regardless of location past 90hz-thats getting well into bass/midbass regions where there starts be to some stereo separation.


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## chithead

Subscribed.


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## drocpsu

a solid pair of midbasses up front will make all the difference. the best sounding car i ever heard had a pair of 10s in the doors as midbasses (they played pretty low though). almost was perfect even without a sub running at all.


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## BurnOut956

very interesting. subscribed!


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## BowDown

9-19-10 updates:


8" ED Sub Mockup:










10" SoundSplinter Sub Mockup:


































The SoundSplinter Sub has alot larger motor structure than the IDQ I want to use (have still to find/buy). But I will use this for mockup. If this sub can fit then the IDQ will have no issues!

These pics were taken with no cutting done. Just the vent removed, heads up display removed, and hu moved to bottom of bezel. If I cut some of the dash area in front of the sub (windshield side) the sub will center up alot better. 

Any progress is good progress.. Only had a couple hours to work on it this weekend.

More updates to come!


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## rjorge

It doesn't seem that you can get enough air space for a 10 inch without going towards the firewall. I really like the idea though.
On a side note, I am also on the quest for impact up front and took a different approach to do it. I am using 7" Tang Bands underhung midbasses that will play down to 50hz mounted in ~1.0ft^3 kicks. I had to cut into behind the tires and basically made a sealed enclosure using fiberglass inside the inner fender (have one side complete). If you have mid-basses in the doors and subs in the kicks you would end up with true stereo bass response up front, something that very few people have experinced! Just my .02


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## BowDown

The IDQ only needs about .35-.45ft^3. If I can't get that naturally I do have an aperiodic vent I can install.


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## Gas Is Expensive

Damnit. This is giving me ideas. I might have to try squeezing a sub in my Civic's glovebox now. With twins on the way, I'm going to need all of my trunk space for strollers, etc. I've only got 3 mos. left before I'm going to be a father, so I guess I had better get started now. Damnit!


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## FLYONWALL9

This is pretty neat. I've done subs in the front of cars 'back in the day'
and it can be very nice! HOWEVER, you have got to brace the crap out
of it OR isolate the crap out of it. Depending on the dash and enclosure
you stand a huge chance of making all sorts of noises within your stage.
One of the very best drivers and enclosures I used was a box Kicker
called 'the shoe box' that used a 6 1/2" woofer. These were the red and
black 'k' cone drivers. The enclosure was ported so it could be tuned to
which freq you think your missing or lacking. When I say that little box
was impressive is a HUGE understatement....

With the drivers we have on the market today one comes to mind that
could very well be perfect 100% for this app. The little Tang Band 6 1/2
lots of folks use as subs. I think its cost is very appealing also.

IMHO when I did the sub in the front installs I was trying to get that kick
drum kick, or bass guitar pluck, really fast response. I really didn't want
lots of cone excursion to give away the speakers location. Even down
firing with port opposite the cone isn't a bad move. You gotta keep in
mind your placing the driver where you want the sound to be, so no 
need for loads of power or huge cones. You can very easily over run
the rest of your front stage.

I gotta hand it to ya though, 'you aint skeered!' I really like thinking outside
the box. no pun

GREAT STUFF MAN!!!!


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## leepersc

Definitely tuned in for this one! Totally 'out of the box' here. I LOVE IT!


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## BowDown

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm still leaning towards a 10" sub. The goal is to eliminate my 12" sub from the trunk.. and a nice SQ 10" will give me the extension <30hz that I want... most smaller subs can reach that low at lower volumes.. but I want the ability to crank it up if need be.


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## Chaos

Very ambitious, but creative idea.


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## getonerd

yea i want my trunk back too im thinking of putting some tens im my rear doors


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## BowDown

Little progress...

I ripped down a 2'x4' Sheet of 1/4" MDF into a 10" x 4' strip. I then proceeded to kerf the ever loving crap out of it. Hope to be able to bend this into shape to make 3 walls of the box. I will reinforce this with fiberglass after the bend.



















Little bit at a time when bending dry.


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## BowDown

Part of the project involved moving the HU down. Along with modifying the bezel I decided to make some metal brackets to hold the HU to the dash instead of letting it hang of the bezel.

I originally bought some sheet metal to bend, but a HUS26 truss hanger worked great! Just cut it in 1/2 and drill a hole to secure it to the HU. I also applied some 1/4" double-sided foam tape to isolate it.


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## BowDown

The MDF Piece snapped during bending. So I ripped a piece of clear 5/4" SYP down to 10", planed it to 3/8", and kerfed the center section. This should give me a good start on my enclosure. Possibly do some mockup tomorrow during lunch.


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## FLAstrongman

looks like a lot of work. In for the finished product.


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## BowDown

Put a couple hours in today. Cutting ahoy!!

Cut back the area by the duct, and cross support pieces. Huge cavity to start working with. I'm going to create a box skeleton out of 1/4" mdf and 3/4" mdf blocks. Then I will remove and fiberglass the shape. Basically going to make the enclosure as large as possible. Will have lunch hour updates as it progresses from here.

Let me tell you... to take a hack saw and snips to your $28,000 car takes a bit of nerve!


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## turbo5upra

Hack.


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## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> Hack.


Douche.


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## mattyjman

You sir are crazy... i admire your guts as my wife would slaughter me faster than you could blink...

With that said, might i make a suggestion... and this is completey unfounded from my experience as i have yet to try it, but the use of floral foam here instead of wood would be ten times easier to get the shape and space required before fiberglassing


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## BowDown

Floral foam while it sounds like a good idea makes a big mess when shaping. Also I would have to scoop it out after.. might be a pain. Plus I really want to incorporate some 3/4" mdf pieces into the box for mount points that wont actually invade the sealed space. 

Wife doesn't know. :lol: The car looks pretty much normal after putting the stock pieces back.


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## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> Wife doesn't know. :lol: The car looks pretty much normal after putting the stock pieces back.


I have before and after pics.... its going to cost ya and a apple peeler and a cs 300.1 or she gets em!


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## target

Watching this, for sure


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## BowDown

Sub is scheduled to be delivered today! Woohoo.


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## ChiTownSQ

Sweet. Getting close !!!


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## TJ Mobile Audio

Holy up front bass, Batman! In for the carnage.


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## meelo

The more I watch this the more intrigued I get, but i don't have the guts to cut up my dash....I will live this experience through you =)


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## BowDown

:lol: Thanks. I think... 

Pics of the sub later tonight.


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## meelo

BowDown said:


> :lol: Thanks. I think...
> 
> Pics of the sub later tonight.


oh it's a compliment!  I love seeing/doing out of the box designs, but this is just a tad too much for me :rockon: I can't wait to see the finished product and how it sounds!


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## BowDown

Me too. What I wouldn't do for a solid day to devote to fabrication. I could get the box mostly done in a nice 8-10hr shift. Instead my 1hr lunch hours and a couple hrs on the weekend will have to due.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

Oh wait, are you using the sub I shipped you in this build? I just barely made the connection. Oh man, now I want to hear this, why do you have to be on the east coast? I don't want to steal your thunder, so I won't say what the sub is... I'm just glad to see that it did in fact go to a good home!


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## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Oh wait, are you using the sub I shipped you in this build? I just barely made the connection. Oh man, now I want to hear this, why do you have to be on the east coast? I don't want to steal your thunder, so I won't say what the sub is... I'm just glad to see that it did in fact go to a good home!


:lol: Ya I'm using your old sub in this install. If my IDQ 12 would of fit I would of used that. Couldn't find an IDQ v2 D2 10, so your old sub was the next best thing.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> :lol: Ya I'm using your old sub in this install. If my IDQ 12 would of fit I would of used that. Couldn't find an IDQ v2 D2 10, so your old sub was the next best thing.


Gee, thanks.  Honestly, I think it will make you smile, it's a nice little speaker.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

**psst... hey everyone! it's a funky pup!**

(hehehe, he'll never see that...)


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## BowDown

Haha. I'd sport a funky pup just to say I did it.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

I just got an e-mail saying they tried to deliver your sub, you weren't home.


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## tinctorus

Any picture updates??


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## turbo5upra

I have 2 pups about 10' away.... they can be @ you house shortly. Tj keeps sending subs to the rome area lol


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## TJ Mobile Audio

turbo5upra said:


> I have 2 pups about 10' away.... they can be @ you house shortly. Tj keeps sending subs to the rome area lol


LOL that's right, I sold you an R12 a while ago, didn't I? Or was it two? Don't remember. You won't get one of those in a dashboard!


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## turbo5upra

lol.... trunk works just fine for it!


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## BowDown

I'm not a big fan of the R12. I tried it out for a bit small sealed. 

I had to go get the sub. Guess going to Rome to get it is a lot closer than driving to you. Haha. 

Looks like it showed in nice condition. Might appy power to it soon just to be sure. 

Want to exchange some iTrader?


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## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> Want to exchange some iTrader?


Sounds kinda dirty lol....


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## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Looks like it showed in nice condition. Might appy power to it soon just to be sure.
> 
> Want to exchange some iTrader?


Glad to hear it arrived safely. I tested it with Carver watts (not just any watts, lol) before shipping it. If you're lucky, maybe I accidentally got some 1980s SQ pixie dust in the box! As long as the packaged wasn't dropped, thrown, or otherwise abused during shipping, it should be good. 



turbo5upra said:


> Sounds kinda dirty lol....


I'll exchange iTrader any day, haha. In fact, I'm exchanging some right now...


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## BowDown

Here's a few pics of the new to me sub! 92-94 vintage Xtant!



















Mockup:



















Cardboard didn't work as well as I thought. Scissors were dull as hell! Oh well.. there's always tomorrow:


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## MTopper

that'll be a pretty cool idea but i still think you're crazy for it


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## bboyvek

This makes me want to get rid of my glove compartment


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## ChiTownSQ

I am hoping your whole dash stays nice and quite. No vibes,,, just nice clean low bass!


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## FLYONWALL9

HOLY SUBWOOFER BATMAN!

I gotta hand it to ya, you gotta set the size of the King of Bayonne!

I'm really looking forward to this. I dig folks thinking outside the box and you my friend are so far outside the box it aint even funny!

sweet idea, I really hope your work pays off for you!


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## BowDown

FLYONWALL9 said:


> HOLY SUBWOOFER BATMAN!
> 
> I gotta hand it to ya, you gotta set the size of the King of Bayonne!
> 
> I'm really looking forward to this. I dig folks thinking outside the box and you my friend are so far outside the box it aint even funny!
> 
> sweet idea, I really hope your work pays off for you!


Me too man. Me too. :lol:

I'm very impressed so far. It's nice to try some different things. Just need to secure some time to really dig into the box fabrication.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> I'm very impressed so far. It's nice to try some different things. Just need to secure some time to really dig into the box fabrication.


Have you been listening to that sub?



Yeah, I know what you mean about the time, I'd like a couple 18 hour shifts to work on my box. Instead, I only end up doing like 12 hours a week.


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## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Have you been listening to that sub?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I know what you mean about the time, I'd like a couple 18 hour shifts to work on my box. Instead, I only end up doing like 12 hours a week.


Na I don't have a 10" friendly enclosure. Was just referring to the system as a whole. I figure I'll let the sub be a surprise when it's in the final box. 

I'd kill for 12hrs a week. :lol: 

I get about 40min a day if I use the rest of my lunch hour. And about 3hrs on the weekend. *cough cough* feel an illness coming on. Haha.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Na I don't have a 10" friendly enclosure. Was just referring to the system as a whole. I figure I'll let the sub be a surprise when it's in the final box.
> 
> I'd kill for 12hrs a week. :lol:
> 
> I get about 40min a day if I use the rest of my lunch hour. And about 3hrs on the weekend. *cough cough* feel an illness coming on. Haha.


I think I speak for the rest of us when I say we are mostly impressed that you hacked a hole in your dashboard. 

Well, as of now, overtime has been cut off at work. Since I work four tens, I can squeeze in a fair amount of work on the weekends. Just goes to show, we all want more time than we have. Sad thing is two weeks ago, I actually had to take a sick day. I was so sick, I didn't even touch the truck once, except to drive to the doctor. Sick days are wasted on the sick...


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## turbo5upra

bang in to work on your box.....


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## Oliver

You'll definitely feel the bass or subbass on your face now!

you don't wear a hairpiece do you ?

Good , pheww


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## turbo5upra

Oliver said:


> you don't wear a hairpiece do you ?
> 
> Good , pheww


he don't' but might could use one soon!


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## BowDown

Not yet. :lol:

Bald spot is growing tho.


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## Cruzer

u said your wife doesnt know about it?

when she rides with you, unless u have a way of turning it down, she will know? but what can she do/say then hehe


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## BowDown

Haha. She just doesn't know I had to make some cuts... She knows about the project.


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## Qyota

This makes me want to put my TangBand 8" where my useless glovebox is. Let us know how the dash rattle battle goes!


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## BowDown

10-10-2010 Updates:

Well the 3 hrs I managed to put into the car didn't go exactly as planned. Was one of those frustrating days... 2 steps forward, 1 step back, but I did make some headway.

I started by cutting some 1/2" birch plywood down and started making the angled cuts to try and frame out the area from just wood. Well the back wall of the box while pretty close to everything created motor structure clearance issues. This would cause my sub to end up 1.5" further out from the dash (see pics). So I decided to change my plan and I'm going to be raising the sub up off the dash a bit 3/4" and going to use a combo of wood & glass to construct the box. 

Was trying to stay away from glassing.. but it's really not feasible. I just hope 1 of the Ford vinyl samples I ordered is an exact match for the dash, then I will just wrap the top baffle in vinyl for a stock look. Either way.. here are some pics from Sunday.


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## Afronaut

Very interesting and as stated before "you have balls"...


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## estione

Afronaut said:


> Very interesting and as stated before "you have balls"...


He wont have when the wife find's out :laugh::laugh:


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## mobeious

thats going to be crazy... imo it looks to big and out of place


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## BowDown

Eye of the beholder I guess. Lol. I think it fits perfect.


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## bboyvek

I think it fits perfect too, will you have any issues installing the hu back?


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## BowDown

Na the hu is in during the pics. It slides in with 2 mounting screws on the ears. Pretty slick.


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## bboyvek

Awesome, ya really got me wanting an upfront subwoofer.


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## southpawskater

Crazy!!!!!!! Keep it up I cant wait to see it done!


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## BowDown

Thanks!

I am almost done with my templates for the fiberglass enclosure. Should have that done today, and will cut out the pieces Sunday. Not sure I will get glass on it, but should have it in fabric by the end of the day Sunday.


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## Cruzer

u gonna get a video of it or just pics


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## BowDown

A video of the sub in action, or me building the box? :lol:

I'll post pics the whole way, but I guess if ya want a video I can do that. Never really understood the video of a sub thing. I mean the sub moves, makes noise... but you can't really get a feel for how it sounds unless you're there.


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## Cruzer

i just asked.. dont do it..


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## BowDown

Lunch Hour Updates:

-Tweaked my templates a bit after installing the stereo bezel piece
-Traced the templates onto some 1/2" birch plywood
-Marked lines for the center support cutouts (can't be solid)
-Cut out the shapes with a pretty coarse bladed jig saw

Still have to sand them a bit, and cut out the inside of the center pieces but I'm going to mock them up in the car first.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

Looking good, and I can tell you are doing very precise work. I guess I would too if I tore my dash apart like this, haha.

So, I know you are going to have the sub protruding a bit, and are planning to vinyl-wrap the enclosure, but you've got me wondering if you will cover the sub with something. Do you plan to have any sort of grille, or any attempt at stealth? Or will you be covering it with the dash mat? Personally, I think a sub like this could be left uncovered and still be aesthetic, but it would also alert any and all thieves to the fact that you have a stereo system...

I'm just curious how you are approaching that.


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## BowDown

While the sub does look nice and I'd love to show it.. I'm going to modify the dash mat to go over top of the sub. You won't see it.. But if anything it should help the stage by not knowing a sub is there. If I pull the dash mat to show my handiwork I want it to appear factory. Hence wrapping it in vinyl.


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## BowDown

I have a couple more pics of the cut pieces in place.. But the upload will happen tomorrow or sunday. Just have to wait!


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## TJ Mobile Audio

Sounds cool, and that does make sense. What I was basically asking was whether you were making any cover besides the dash mat.


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## FLYONWALL9

Yeah I would think with a dash mat would also offer some sort of UV protection. I think I would be more worried with that than a thief. Hell, he/she would have to figure out how to get the damn thing out. With that being said I would SURELY use some sort of snake eye or other safety screw, not just a regular ole pan head.

KEEP IT UP MAN! its turning out killer


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## BowDown

I will most likely make some kind of grill to protect the sub ya. Maybe out of metal mesh?


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## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> I will most likely make some kind of grill to protect the sub ya. Maybe out of metal mesh?


Meh, if you can get by without a grille, why bother? In this case, I'm not sure how to make a sturdy enough grille that won't add unnecessary thickness. If you like metal mesh, I think it would be easier to just get something prefab and put that on top. But I mean, unless someone is pushing down on the dashmat with a sharp object (in which case you should kick them out of your car) I don't see how it could really get harmed.

My concern with it being too flimsy is the sub might make it resonate a bit...


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## turbo5upra

who the heck would want his 15 year old crap anyway? and his parts express drivers? lol

around here they wouldn't know what to do when they popped the trunk and it didn't have a big ol' box with a nest of wires.  then when they got the mids and tweet's out they would be really confused since they aren't speakers???? lol


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## TJ Mobile Audio

They'd be looking for the amps, and maybe they have good taste in subwoofers... Not likely I guess.



Besides, I thought that subwoofer was "only" 10-12 years old, but perhaps it is a bit older than that. I have a 7 year old sub in my car that would get stolen every day if people knew what it was, haha.


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## cirodias

ID 8! 

veryy good!

nice build!

very good equips!


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## BowDown

cirodias said:


> ID 8!
> 
> veryy good!
> 
> nice build!
> 
> very good equips!


Haha. Xtant 10. But thanks! Updates to come tomorrow.


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## BowDown

Updates!

Glued and stapled the template parts of the enclosure together:


































Just setting 1 of the 2-ply baffle on top of the enclosure.


















Test fit in vehicle. That center piece is just a temp piece to keep the sides pushed out against the dash. A perm piece will be installed.


















Tossed the baffle up there:


















Next up a couple more braces, then cutting out the 2nd baffle. After that I will mock up the baffle then wrap the enclosure in fleece. Woohoo!


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## n_olympios

Looking good!


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## Eiswritsat

what type of sound dead'n or dash dead'n are you gonna be using? Also do u have an idea of where you think the sub is gonna be crossoved over at being that its so close to the front stage? looks impressive i just hope the radio doesnt skip.


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## BowDown

Crossover points, rattling, and skipping will be one of those things I find once I power it up. Thinking of aiming for 100hz crossover... if I can pull off 120hz that would be awesome! I still have the dash mat.. but am not against installing some damplifier pro on the under side of all dash panels, and supports. :lol:

Find out!


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## TJ Mobile Audio

Wow, what a graceful implementation of the idea! Have you figured out where you will put the HVAC vent and controls? Anyway, I think that your Xtant will be right at home in such a fancy enclosure, lol.

Personally, I bet you can get away with a 120 Hz crossover point if you want to. The crossover in my Sentra is 80 Hz with the sub in the trunk, and in the F-150 I've been trying it at 100 with the sub under the rear seat. Seldom does either subwoofer drag the stage backward, unless I start clipping my bass amp or rattling stuff behind me. You'll know when you have it in place, but I'm guessing 120 will be okay. Talk about making life easy for your mids!


----------



## BowDown

Vents will be blocked off. The controls can stay where they are. I will have to relocate the hazard switch, and air bag light. 

Fancy enclosure is right. This is my most complex yet. Taking my time and doing it right.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

:lol: You could have convinced me you had done it before.

Anyway, there would be no sense in hacking apart your dash and not even building a decent enclosure. Heck, I'm taking my time in the truck as well; stealth and OEM integration is relatively unexplored territory for me. I come from the "big box, tuned low, who cares if it takes up the whole trunk" school of thought, but have been working to refine my tastes, lol.


----------



## Salami

This is freaking crazy ****! I hope it works out, I have dreamed of up front bass for so long.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Salami said:


> This is freaking crazy ****! I hope it works out, I have dreamed of up front bass for so long.


The "old-fashioned" way of doing it is cross your sub low, perhaps 50 Hz, install good mids, and be done with it. Isolate any rattles that give away the fact that "King Kong in da trunk" and you will have up front bass.

Not saying this project is a bad idea, in fact it's a very cool use of space IMO. But please don't think that that's the only way to get "up front bass". Low bass is perceived as non-directional for many reasons, starting simply with the close proximity of both ears to each other with respect to the wavelengths being produced.


----------



## BowDown

Up front bass is easy. Up front presence is another story.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Up front bass is easy. *Up front presence* is another story.


I'm actually not familiar with that term, could you clarify? Maybe it will give me an excuse to cut apart my dashboard as well.


----------



## BowDown

Impact, being able to move your head past the headrest on the seat and not pull your ear back. Also not feeling the seat vibrate from the rear will help with the concept of a stage up front.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Even center console subs I've built have always vibrated the seat backs. I thought that was just an intensity thing, not due (at least not entirely) to location of the sub. Perhaps with the sub in the dash, you won't need as much power to get the same intensity from the listening position, is that what you are getting at?


----------



## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Even center console subs I've built have always vibrated the seat backs. I thought that was just an intensity thing, not due (at least not entirely) to location of the sub. Perhaps with the sub in the dash, you won't need as much power to get the same intensity from the listening position, is that what you are getting at?


This is tru. Less power, more output, more presence.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Okay, I gotcha. More output only due to the proximity of the listening position. Oh but I like my back massages! I guess that's why I'm not an SQ competitor, lol. You may have a serious advantage for any SPL competitions that require metering at the dash, an unintended benefit I'm sure...


----------



## BowDown

Punch me in the chest! Not in the back... lol.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Punch me in the chest! Not in the back... lol.


:lol: I'll take some of both...


----------



## getonerd

i would like to say good job so far and thats the realist ideas i seen on any forum im sick of peoples bragin about havin an wall full of subs but you thinking outside out the box some good work


----------



## Salami

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> The "old-fashioned" way of doing it is cross your sub low, perhaps 50 Hz, install good mids, and be done with it. Isolate any rattles that give away the fact that "King Kong in da trunk" and you will have up front bass.
> 
> Not saying this project is a bad idea, in fact it's a very cool use of space IMO. But please don't think that that's the only way to get "up front bass". Low bass is perceived as non-directional for many reasons, starting simply with the close proximity of both ears to each other with respect to the wavelengths being produced.


This: 



BowDown said:


> Impact, being able to move your head past the headrest on the seat and not pull your ear back. Also not feeling the seat vibrate from the rear will help with the concept of a stage up front.


My biggest complaint is the impact from behind. My set up you can't hear it from behind you but you sure can feel it. I have never seen life music where I have felt impact from behind me. It always punches you right in the chest.


----------



## turbo5upra

one of the rules for spl is they have to be behind the b-pillar.... his is if you flip the car around lol.....


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

getonerd said:


> i would like to say good job so far and thats the realist ideas i seen on any forum im sick of peoples bragin about havin an wall full of subs but you thinking outside out the box some good work


Assuming you're referring to the picture I posted, that's not my system, just one I built.


----------



## BowDown

Have to mount the seat on a pole. Lol.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Salami said:


> My biggest complaint is the impact from behind. My set up you can't hear it from behind you but you sure can feel it. I have never seen life music where I have felt impact from behind me. It always punches you right in the chest.


That's because A) you are standing up at most rock concerts, B) the bass is generally nowhere near 135-145 dB, and C) if you are sitting down, it usually isn't in a padded car seat. If you have enough bass to shake your seats, I submit that pivoting your seat 180° would not make the bass hit you in the chest, it would still shake the seat-back. Like I said, I've built center consoles that were in front of me, and the visceral sensation was no different from having the subs being behind me. His point, if I understood correctly, was simply that by his proximity to the sub, it would be louder to him, and he wouldn't need so much power that it would shake his seat backs.


----------



## turbo5upra

He did one in his f-350 in the center console and it had something.... not sure what but it just sounded like nothing i've heard.... 

might have been the 1200 watt amp on the 250rms sub but I think it had more to do with the fact that it was firing on an angle into the foot wells......


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

turbo5upra said:


> He did one in his f-350 in the center console and it had something.... not sure what but it just sounded like nothing i've heard....
> 
> might have been the 1200 watt amp on the 250rms sub but I think it had more to do with the fact that it was firing on an angle into the foot wells......


Who did? Is this good, or bad?


----------



## turbo5upra

bowdown..... It had a front "presence"


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Cool. I'm trying to get that from under the back seat of my truck, but I'm not so sure I can pull it off, lol... Only time and tuning will tell. Oh yeah, and the center consoles I've built were not exactly designed to be "tame", so that may have been part of the reason it seemed the same as having a sub in the trunk.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

turbo5upra said:


> who the heck would want his 15 year old crap anyway? and his parts express drivers? lol
> 
> around here they wouldn't know what to do when they popped the trunk and it didn't have a big ol' box with a nest of wires.  then when they got the mids and tweet's out they would be really confused since they aren't speakers???? lol


This.



FLYONWALL9 said:


> Yeah I would think with a dash mat would also offer some sort of UV protection. I think I would be more worried with that than a thief. Hell, he/she would have to figure out how to get the damn thing out. With that being said I would SURELY use some sort of snake eye or other safety screw, not just a regular ole pan head.
> 
> KEEP IT UP MAN! its turning out killer


And this.

I've never really heard of people stealing mids and tweets, it's too much work... My brother's Infiniti got broken into, someone wanted to steal his system. They broke the latch on his center console compartment, and left his glove box open, obviously trying to find an iPod. They didn't bother with the deck, since it was screwed in from the sides and would take 30+ minutes to remove. Then they moved to the trunk. They stole the sub & enclosure because it was only held in with industrial velcro. They tore the power wires out of the amp, but ended up leaving it because I had installed it with special screws. Thieves are getting so lazy these days, I guess they really should be the last of your concerns.

X2 on the safety screws though, the above example proves they work.


----------



## cheez80

wow, i'll be keeping track of this build. the enclosure looks awesome so far


----------



## BowDown

Ya this is true. I have a couple packs of safety screws to use. I like not having any flash once installed. Don't get me wrong the sub will look badass.. but I would much rather just cover it up, and enjoy the sound.


----------



## antnbarao

Ansioso pra ver o desenrrolar da estoria


----------



## BowDown

antnbarao said:


> Ansioso pra ver o desenrrolar da estoria


Me too man. Only getting a few hours a week makes for a long project.


----------



## quality_sound

Salami said:


> This:
> 
> 
> 
> My biggest complaint is the impact from behind. My set up you can't hear it from behind you but you sure can feel it. I have never seen life music where I have felt impact from behind me. It always punches you right in the chest.


Then you have to brace your seat. That has NOTHING to do with the location of the sub.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

quality_sound said:


> Then you have to brace your seat. That has NOTHING to do with the location of the sub.


Quoted for truth.


----------



## BowDown

Answer me this then. Stand (or sit) 5ft from a subwoofer in front of you. Where is the impact? Your chest.. Yes the seats in a car have flimsy vinyl that can resonate in the back... But the point of this project is to put the device that's compressing cabin air in front of you so that the direction of the wave is towards your chest not your back.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

It may be that I'm not as good as perceiving it as you are. I have done an experiment with a car seat where I turned it around backwards, and I still felt the impact in my back _even though I was facing the subwoofer._ I'm by no means dogging your idea, as I stated earlier I think it's an excellent use of space and a bold undertaking. I also can't argue with your competition credentials, as I have never competed. I'm just not convinced that _I_ personally would be able to tell the difference, and I've always been taught (on the forum and in my physics classes) that bass is perceived as non-directional below a point. I'd say somewhere between 50 and 100 Hz location becomes irrelevant (other than distance related phase issues), but the actual frequency may be a bit of a hot spot for debate.

I'll let quality_sound chime in next.


----------



## BowDown

Well that is interesting, and I can't say I have tried the same setup you have, or the setup I'm proposing.. I'm just trying to relate it to a concert environment. The cabin of a vehicle is a terrible place.. There's so many variables.. A lot of times it just comes to trial and error.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Yeah, I sometimes wonder why I pour so much effort into making a terrible room sound good. My living room sounds better than my car, and all I have is some well-positioned Marantz floor standers, a Carver receiver, and a diagonal listening position. Almost zero effort to get concert quality sound. LOL.


----------



## turbo5upra

Sad day... The car was repo'd 
























J/k......

Yeah just getting to the point were my car is equal to my living room... it will never happen but hey I can try can't ?


----------



## n_olympios

IMO chest impact comes from midbass frequencies and not the sub freq rumble.


----------



## quality_sound

BowDown said:


> Answer me this then. Stand (or sit) 5ft from a subwoofer in front of you. Where is the impact? Your chest.. Yes the seats in a car have flimsy vinyl that can resonate in the back... But the point of this project is to put the device that's compressing cabin air in front of you so that the direction of the wave is towards your chest not your back.


Answer me this, what does it matter in a car that's doesn't have enough room for any bass frequencies to develop? You're simply pressurizing and depressurizing. You can't compare what happens at a concert to what happens in a car. Two different animals. If you doubt this, you've never sat in Richard Clark's GN. Those seats were deadened to hell and back and ALL of the impact hit you square in the chest and not only were the subs in the back, so were the midbasses.


----------



## quality_sound

n_olympios said:


> IMO chest impact comes from midbass frequencies and not the sub freq rumble.


For the most part. It will depend on the crossover frequencies as well, but in general I agree.


----------



## BowDown

Finished cutting up the 2-ply baffle and glued them together.


----------



## BowDown

Woohoo. New amp arrived!

Going to wait till installation to remove the protective plastic. :lol:

Going to run 4 channels up front bi-amped to my 3way front stage, and the 5th channel to the 10" Dash Sub.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

When you opened the box did a 'glow from down below' shine
past the amp and catch your eye with a church choir in the
background AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

DAMNIT MAN, what an upgrade from the Alphasonics that thing
is SWEET! CONGRATS!


----------



## BowDown

Haha was something like that. Right time, right price on this Tube Driver. How much better it is than the Alphasoniks has yet to be seen. Lol.


----------



## BowDown

Small updates. Got a few hours Sunday morning to work on it.

Sunday's progress was getting it to fit into the dash with the bezel installed. Had some unforeseen clearance issues. I made some rough cuts (to be cleaned up later) to make it fit, along with mocking up some permanent cross-bracing pieces. She's coming along!


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Looking nice!


----------



## MTopper

looks great so far. i can't wait to see what it'll look like.


----------



## mitchyz250f

Amazing, the project seemed impossible two weeks ago and now it looks great!

Are you concerned about vibration?


----------



## BowDown

mitchyz250f said:


> Amazing, the project seemed impossible two weeks ago and now it looks great!
> 
> Are you concerned about vibration?


It is a concern. I'm going to take steps to help ward it off. Stage I is just to sound deaden the metal brackets and such around the box, use rubber washers on mount points, and thin foam gasket between the box and the dash. 

After that it would require pulling the dash and going to town. :lol:


----------



## sinister-kustoms

Mmmmmm...bass in yo face! Look forward to seeing more!


----------



## getonerd

are going to flush mount the sub may be i miss it LOL


----------



## BowDown

getonerd said:


> are going to flush mount the sub may be i miss it LOL


I have a double 1/2" birch baffle that's going on top of the box. I wish I could flush it.. but the motor structure would have to be shifted too far forward on the dash. 

After fiberglass the sub will look flush.


----------



## MSimz

Looking great so far. Do you work in a cabinet shop or something of that nature? Looks like a nice spot to do some fab work - tons of material too.


----------



## BowDown

I work in the office, but part of our production is custom stair cases. Tons of tools to play with after hours, or plant lunch hours.


----------



## MSimz

Sweet. I love stair companies. I snatch up a lot of exotic wood they discard as scraps and use them in furniture. Gotta love it.


----------



## ToddG

tuning in....this is beyond cool!


----------



## tintbox

Looks good. Coming along nicely.


----------



## Mic10is

tintbox said:


> Looks good. Coming along nicely.


quit lookin at pictures and get to work on your own xBox


----------



## Texas Made

looking good. right on the mark


----------



## BowDown

*cough* *cough* might be sick tomorrow. Really want to get more done on this project.. so I believe it's going to be a sick day. Will just continue working on it in my small wood shop in the basement.


----------



## BowDown

Not much of an update, but I got the bezel cross support glued, stapled, and clamped in place. Also glued in the rear cross piece, and a block to help unify the left to right side (can't see in the pic, installed because of a bump out in the dash area I had to clearance for).


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Not much of an update, but I got the bezel cross support glued, stapled, and clamped in place. Also glued in the rear cross piece, and a block to help unify the left to right side (can't see in the pic, installed because of a bump out in the dash area I had to clearance for).


Looking forward to the progress. 

Actually I'm in about the same stage with my subwoofer box, every update I post it seems like I haven't made any progress. Little details, bracing and such, just getting ready to glass, can be pretty time consuming. Yours is admittedly more complex (or at least more intricate) than mine, though!


----------



## BowDown

Updates:

I called in sick to be able to put some hours into this project. Got 3 layers of glass on the base of the unit. It's all in rough form, after it cures overnight I will go back and trim it up, mount the baffle, and start glassing the top.


----------



## shibbydevil

I thought you were going stealth... not so much anymore? or is that speaker ring just hanging out on top?


----------



## BowDown

Well the stealth will be retained through the dash mat. Without the dash mat installed it will be factory matched vinyl with a matching grill cloth speaker grill.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


>


That looks like an excellent use of the wife's old sweater. :laugh:


----------



## Sideways17

Looking good man! Great work!


----------



## tintbox

looks great.


----------



## turbo5upra

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> That looks like an excellent use of the wife's old sweater. :laugh:


Wife? he couldn't resist and ripped it off me while I was working..... I managed to get away from him but it cost me a shirt.....


Don't drop the soap around this guy!


----------



## bgx88

subscribed great read and quality craftsmanship


----------



## FLYONWALL9

I'm going to be honest here. When you first started this project I really 
thought it would look ok. HOWEVER, I NEVER thought it would look
this FANTASTIC! Your doing some of the best work on this thing I have
seen on this board. Not just creativity but the execution is beyond that
of anything I've seen in any of the rest of the car. You have without
question progressed 100 fold. 

THIS IS JUST SIMPLY AWESOME! I really wish I could hear this 
thing when your finished, I bet it is going to be killer. The detail
going into this enclosure is inspirational!

Koodoz also for the updates and keeping us all posted!

REALLY GREAT STUFF BROTHER


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. That mean's alot. I'm really trying to take my time and do it right here. Also I have set a goal of getting the box completely done before I can install my new Tube Driver & 2nd DEQ230. If there was more time in the day I could of had this thing done. 

My weekend is going to be taken up by finishing my Dining room. Have lots of trim and such to button up there.


----------



## n_olympios

Very nice! 

I don't think that the "called in sick" info should be in an open forum though lol.


----------



## BowDown

Cleaned the edges up, resin splatters, and clearanced the top pieces a bit to allow the basket to recess down into the box a bit. Not a bad lunch hour.


----------



## turbo5upra

n_olympios said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I don't think that the "called in sick" info should be in an open forum though lol.


20 bux and I won't tell yer boss how to find said info ;-)


----------



## BowDown

Ha it's well know where I work that people take sick days when they aren't sick. We don't get personal days so we have to adjust accordingly. Lol.


----------



## SVOEO

One of the most interesting installs going- subscribed!


----------



## BowDown

After some modification she fits! Pretty snug too. I will have to do some repair work on the back of the box before I can start glassing the top. Next work day will prbly be Sunday morning unfortunately. Unless I can do a bit of glassing here at work. Not sure that would go over well. :lol:


----------



## BowDown

BTW there will be a horizontal piece that will cap the edge of the wood. I'm still deciding on what material to use. I need something resin will adhere to, but I need something kinda strong so when i pull the vinyl around it the piece wont flex.


----------



## Afronaut

That fitment looks great.


----------



## baggedbirds

nice work. It looks like it fits nicely !


----------



## ellocojorge

what are you going to use to cover it.


----------



## ekrunch

You sir, are a sick, sick man. I'm so envious of this build. 

So are you keeping the sub in the trunk as well as this one or just going with the one in the dash?


----------



## BowDown

I will wrap the top in dash matching vinyl. Going to put a dash pad matching grill cloth grill on the sub and modify the dash mat to fit.


----------



## Mic10is

whats sub look like in the enclosure?
I'd do some dense foam around the edges and anywhere it contacts any part of the dash to help decouple it from the dash.

If You can flush the sub in, I'd do it

make the baffle as thick and heavy as possible as well


----------



## BowDown

Mic10is said:


> whats sub look like in the enclosure?
> I'd do some dense foam around the edges and anywhere it contacts any part of the dash to help decouple it from the dash.
> 
> If You can flush the sub in, I'd do it
> 
> make the baffle as thick and heavy as possible as well


I'll take a pic with the sub just sitting down inside the skeleton. I don't know if I can flush the sub in... width restrictions.


----------



## BowDown

Couple pics showing the sub sitting in the enclosure w/ and w/out the baffle ring. I will smooth out the transition between the ring and the enclosure.


----------



## BowDown

BUMP!


----------



## BowDown

Opps... wrong thread! lol.


----------



## Wesayso

I'm still hoping the sub will sit flush with the top of your enclosure. Is that the plan?
I would have settled for an 8" sub like the JBL GTO 804 or a Tang band.
Those would slide right in but I guess you needed a bigger chalange than that .
Wonderful work on the enclosure so far!


----------



## BowDown

Well the only way the sub will sit flush is to route out the lip on the left and right side and after that I would need to build a complex under-mount baffle. The sub will fit, but I'm not sure the work is worth the effort. I will loose internal box volume by doing that. I may however route the lip in the high spots to kind of recess the baffle ring in a bit. 

Still up in the air.

Haha, ya an 8" would of been easier to fab, but I really wanted a 12", so going down to a 10" was already a compromise. There is no rear sub with this install.


----------



## JP Fabrication

Excellent work so far. I like it.


----------



## BowDown

Thinking during lunch I will run a champfer bit around the top of the baffle. Will knock down the boxyness of it.


----------



## Mic10is

personally I'd notch out the frame so it can recess down in and sit flush. the amount of volume you'll lose from displacement is minimal.
Otherwise, it will kind of look like a big blob in the center of the dash or at a minimum it will look like " Hey theres a 10" sub right there"


----------



## Niebur3

Mic10is said:


> personally I'd notch out the frame so it can recess down in and sit flush. the amount of volume you'll lose from displacement is minimal.
> Otherwise, it will kind of look like a big blob in the center of the dash or at a minimum it will look like " Hey theres a 10" sub right there"


+1


----------



## southpawskater

I agree with flushing the sub but either way it has been awesome to watch this build coming together. Great work keep us all posted.


----------



## BowDown

Mic10is said:


> personally I'd notch out the frame so it can recess down in and sit flush. the amount of volume you'll lose from displacement is minimal.
> Otherwise, it will kind of look like a big blob in the center of the dash or at a minimum it will look like " Hey theres a 10" sub right there"


I will see if it can be done. The issue is the sub itself barely fits between the edges of the dash itself. So this would leave no room for a double baffle in those areas. But if I have the double baffle on the rest of it, this will give me enough support for my mesh grill piece.

I will research this idea tomorrow during my lunch hour.


----------



## mitchyz250f

Your setup is amazing. But you might consider a smaller sub like one of the Tangbands so you could make it more stealthy.

The sub will be closer to you than if it was located anywhere else in the car so it should be louder.

Again, amazing work.


----------



## BowDown

Haha no way I'm going smaller. While I will try to make it more stealthy, a 10" sub is what's spec'd out for this project.


----------



## Mic10is

You dont need so much room on the outside recess.
You can do a double baffle and use thin ABS cut into a long strip and secure it along the edges to make your recess.

Check out Bing's installs, he uses a ton of the blue abs plastic stuff to make all his recesses


----------



## BowDown

Not really sure I'm following your idea with the abs.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Well I for one think it's fine the way it is. Maybe others will dissuade you, but I'd say leave it. Unless you really want more fabrication work, in which case I do have a couple ideas you might like:

Make another ring for use as a jig. It should have an inside diameter equal to the O.D. of your current mounting ring (plus the thickness of a collar and blade gap). Mount that temporarily to the box. Put a straight bit and a collar on your router and set the depth as desired. Then you can follow the inside edge of the jig to make a perfectly round notch, and recess the ring into that. If you want to take it one step further, you can make straight notches on both sides of the double mounting ring (on the bottom) so that it can drop in another 1/4" or so.

I hope that made sense, if not, I can draw it in Sketchup for you.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

mitchyz250f said:


> Your setup is amazing. But you might consider a smaller sub like one of the Tangbands so you could make it more stealthy.
> 
> The sub will be closer to you than if it was located anywhere else in the car so it should be louder.
> 
> Again, amazing work.


No matter how close you get, 6" Tang Band ≠ 10" Xtant.


----------



## BowDown

Ya that's what I was thinking. I would create a baffle that's the diameter of the bit smaller and clamp it down for a template. Going to take some finesse to get it to fit.. but the end result will be worth it. Might have to cut out the new template tomorrow during lunch.


----------



## Mic10is

BowDown said:


> Not really sure I'm following your idea with the abs.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...build-3-way-active-front-stage-center-ch.html

Post #3

the blue stuff is essentially ABS plastic. You can cut your baffle and then wrap the ABS around it which will give you the recess.

Notch out your frame so the baffle fits down inside it. I'd do a layer of dampening and thin foam and another layer of dampening on the bottom of the baffle.
maybe even make a frame down inside for the baffle to sit on as well.


----------



## BowDown

I gotcha. He's kinda wrapping it around the main baffle as a lip. I think we're on the same page. I would rather just continue with my wood baffle, but maybe I will thin out the lip using the belt sander.


----------



## BowDown

Thinned up the upper baffle ring a bit. Marked it out on the enclosure. Then made a 3/8" deep pass with the router (freehand). I'm going to make another pass or 2 until I get the back of the baffle flushed. It has to be tipped at this angle to clear the motor structure. Also it may help cone load against the windshield. 



















Sub just sitting in there. I have to trim up the inside of the baffle and routes on the box. The light you can see through the back is where I had to clearance for the dash cross support. That will be repaired during my next glassing session.


----------



## BowDown

BTW: Not my handiwork on the enclosure below.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

So you were making freehand router passes on the convex side pieces, or on the flat top piece?

I'm assuming you have a fixed base router? Two advantages of the method I described (with the extra ring as a guide) are first that you will have a flat surface to rest the router base on for extra safety & stability, and second that you can get the jig at the precise angle you want, and let it set the depth for you. That way, when you've followed the ring all the way around, you'll have a flat-bottom recess even though your substrate was convex. That will make securing the ring much easier, and the end resul will be more solid.

Unless I misunderstood what you were trying to do, in which case that may not be at all necessary. Just a thought.


----------



## turbo5upra

toss that box in the dumpster.... I don't need it anyway.


----------



## 30something

Haha...predrill those holes!

Looks pretty sweet, man. Is this the same car that has/had ribbons in the pillars?



BowDown said:


> BTW: Not my handiwork on the enclosure below.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

OH MY LORD, I would love to plunder that wood shop!!!!! the
enclosure is looking SWEET! Wont be long now, sure cant wait
to see what you think of your new amp.


----------



## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> So you were making freehand router passes on the convex side pieces, or on the flat top piece?
> 
> I'm assuming you have a fixed base router? Two advantages of the method I described (with the extra ring as a guide) are first that you will have a flat surface to rest the router base on for extra safety & stability, and second that you can get the jig at the precise angle you want, and let it set the depth for you. That way, when you've followed the ring all the way around, you'll have a flat-bottom recess even though your substrate was convex. That will make securing the ring much easier, and the end resul will be more solid.
> 
> Unless I misunderstood what you were trying to do, in which case that may not be at all necessary. Just a thought.


No I just sketched the ring in it's final angle on the top ear pieces. Then I took a plunge router and actually free-handed the cuts. Came out pretty nice I think. Kinda tough to manhandle a router without a guide. :lol:

I do understand what you're saying.. but if I was to use an extra ring as a guide I wouldn't have a bit long enough to each the piece. 

I'm going to go another bit lower.. but flushing the ring in wont really be an option. Clearance issues all around. But the lower the better at this point...


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> toss that box in the dumpster.... I don't need it anyway.


Oh ya? Why's that?


----------



## BowDown

30something said:


> Haha...predrill those holes!
> 
> Looks pretty sweet, man. Is this the same car that has/had ribbons in the pillars?


Was actually 1/2" crown, 2" staples. They work well but that one was a bit close to the edge and caused a split.


----------



## BowDown

FLYONWALL9 said:


> OH MY LORD, I would love to plunder that wood shop!!!!! the
> enclosure is looking SWEET! Wont be long now, sure cant wait
> to see what you think of your new amp.


Ya me too! It's hard to hold off on just "hooking it up". Really going to try and wait till the sub box is done/installed. Also the wiring is cleaned up, and a proper mount for the amp is fabbed.


----------



## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> Kinda tough to manhandle a router without a guide.


Kinda tough for a girl to manhandle anything


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> Kinda tough for a girl to manhandle anything


You do pretty well when you use both hands on my meat.


----------



## turbo5upra

you do pick out pretty good steaks.....


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> No I just sketched the ring in it's final angle on the top ear pieces. Then I took a plunge router and actually free-handed the cuts. Came out pretty nice I think. Kinda tough to manhandle a router without a guide. :lol:
> 
> I do understand what you're saying.. but if I was to use an extra ring as a guide I wouldn't have a bit long enough to each the piece.
> 
> I'm going to go another bit lower.. but flushing the ring in wont really be an option. Clearance issues all around. But the lower the better at this point...


Yeah, there's no way you could freehand something like that with a fixed base (at least not with variable depth like you did!) unless you had a pretty serious mental disorder. I use a fixed base for all my routing, so I would have definitely built a jig and bought a longer bit in your situation. End result would be worth it, but a bit more time consuming than your method. LOL.

Oh yeah, and fixed base routers are easier to manhandle, lower center of gravity.


----------



## BowDown

Patched the back. Installed front cross piece. Installed front lip. Mounted sub baffle ring. Next up top glassing.


----------



## BowDown

Just pulled the clamps this what I got... Can't wait to get the top wrapped now.


----------



## BowDown

More progress pics coming after today's lunch. I'm going to seal in the front baffle lip, and then resin the kerf cuts on both sides. Tomorrow's lunch I will be taking the hot glue and staple gun and attaching the top fabric. Can't wait!!


----------



## BowDown

Decided to reinforce the overhang lip on the box with a layer of cloth/resin. I also put 2 layers on the inside front area that wont be reached when I wrap the top.

Little cleanup work, and she'll be ready to wrap/glass tomorrow! Woohoo.


----------



## Cruzer

how long before this thing is finished?


----------



## BowDown

Cruzer said:


> how long before this thing is finished?


:lol: Is that a rhetorical question? 

Well if I had time to work on it, I could of had it done by now. Hour here hour there doesn't make for alot of progress.

I have the following left to do:
-Clean up edges
-Resin Jelly the kerf cuts on the bottom of the lip
-Apply 2-3 layers of cloth/resin on top
-Fill/Sand top smooth
-Spray undercoat on box
-Drill/Install speaker wire
-Drill/T-Nut 2 mount points on side
-Drill single rear mount point
-Wrap top in vinyl
-Stuff box
-Install subwoofer
-Press perforated steel into grill
-Paint grill
-Install in car

Might look like alot, but many of those are small things that can be done quickly.


----------



## BowDown

Actually 10wks isn't that bad for this project. :lol: Few hours here, few there.


----------



## chauss

Subscribed- I want to see this puppy when completed. Great craftsmanship and ingenuity being applied!!!


----------



## Cruzer

BowDown said:


> :lol: Is that a rhetorical question?
> 
> Well if I had time to work on it, I could of had it done by now. Hour here hour there doesn't make for alot of progress.
> 
> I have the following left to do:
> -Clean up edges
> -Resin Jelly the kerf cuts on the bottom of the lip
> -Apply 2-3 layers of cloth/resin on top
> -Fill/Sand top smooth
> -Prime/Paint top (rattle can)
> -Spray undercoat on box
> -Drill/Install speaker wire
> -Drill/T-Nut 2 mount points on side
> -Drill single rear mount point
> -Wrap top in vinyl
> -Stuff box
> -Install subwoofer
> -Press perforated steel into grill
> -Paint grill
> -Install in car
> 
> Might look like alot, but many of those are small things that can be done quickly.


And u cant give a guess of how much longer, or a month when it should be pretty close to being done?


----------



## BowDown

Lets say 1 month. Should be obtainable. :lol:


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

You don't need a deadline, man. Just do it to your satisfaction, after all, you have to live with it.


----------



## Cruzer

lmao, i guess asking when he might be done means he HAS to be done by the date he says.

amazing what people infer from peoples words

thx for the estimate, i bet its gonna look great, i just hope its worth all the work


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Cruzer said:


> ...i guess asking when he might be done means he HAS to be done by the date he says.
> 
> amazing what people infer from peoples words...


Amazing, huh? Inferring anything?


----------



## BowDown

Regardless what's said it's done when it's done. If I get more time it will be done faster.


----------



## BowDown

Was a very productive lunch hour!

I sanded down some edges. Blew out the box. Wrapped/Hot Glued the fabric. Then got the first coat of resin down. Came out great!


----------



## English audiophile

Keep up the good work!


----------



## BowDown

English audiophile said:


> Keep up the good work!


Thanks!

BTW: What the hell kinda of motors are on those drivers in your avatar?


----------



## English audiophile

BowDown said:


> Thanks!
> 
> BTW: What the hell kinda of motors are on those drivers in your avatar?
> 
> They are the The D9 Monster Alnico drivers from The Lotus group, here's a link. Be warned they are VERY expencive :surprised:
> 
> The_Lotus_Group_Oyaide_Acrolink


----------



## BowDown

English audiophile said:


> BowDown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> BTW: What the hell kinda of motors are on those drivers in your avatar?
> 
> They are the The D9 Monster Alnico drivers from The Lotus group, here's a link. Be warned they are VERY expencive :surprised:
> 
> The_Lotus_Group_Oyaide_Acrolink
> 
> 
> 
> The D9NF NaturFlux Driver is a pretty sweet looking driver.
Click to expand...


----------



## English audiophile

BowDown said:


> English audiophile said:
> 
> 
> 
> The D9NF NaturFlux Driver is a pretty sweet looking driver.
> 
> I think a few of them are, but sadly at those prices are outta my reach for any diy project! lol
Click to expand...


----------



## turbo5upra

darn I guessed wrong... they looked like paint cans strapped to a basket


----------



## BowDown

Updates!

Got kicked out of the mechanic shop for trying to fiberglass during work hours (mechanic is a *****, but can't blame him..). However I did work out a compromise and got to work off the mezzanine area of the shop. Up high with a huge air compressor makes for a very warm dry area. Had to watch the hardener mix, but got it spot on. 

Reinforcement layer is done! Will see how stiff the top is and determine if I need another layer before smoothing.


----------



## ekrunch

This looks great man! I can't wait to see the finished product.

Too bad you got bumped from the shop. Is that permanent?


----------



## Jh8909

subscribed. wanna see this finished.


----------



## arw01

subscribed.

Man you got some balls!


----------



## FLYONWALL9

BowDown said:


> Reinforcement layer is done! Will see how stiff the top is and determine if I need another layer before smoothing.


I'm sure you already know this but others may not.

At this point you could cut apart the top off along the edge, glass
the inside to give you any strength you may need then glass the 
seam back together. I often do this to make fairing easier and go
MUCH faster. Also, doing it this way you can easily glass the ring
to the striped cloth. That is if can be taken apart this way.

your still doing great work.....


----------



## BowDown

Ya, I prbly could cut the top off and glass the backside.. but even after 2 layers I'm happy with the stiffness of the top. Between routing the ring into the box, and securing with resin jelly before wrapping with cloth, tis not going anywhere. But if I had a height worry putting the fiberglass on the bottom-side is a win. 

Thanks for the positive feedback. I'm going to trim up all the edges today, and possibly get a coat of resin jelly on the top.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

BowDown said:


> Ya, I prbly could cut the top off and glass the backside.. but even after 2 layers I'm happy with the stiffness of the top. Between routing the ring into the box, and securing with resin jelly before wrapping with cloth, tis not going anywhere. But if I had a height worry putting the fiberglass on the bottom-side is a win.
> 
> Thanks for the positive feedback. I'm going to trim up all the edges today, and possibly get a coat of resin jelly on the top.


Gotcha, I didn't know the ring was mounted perm yet. 

I'mma sit over here in my corner and keep watching


----------



## BowDown

Now that the glassing is done the mechanic will let me use the shop for bondo if I want. But I will continue living on the mezzanine. It's actually not 1/2-bad once you get your supplies up there. Good lighting, warm as hell, and no one will mess with it while it cures.

More updates after lunch.


----------



## BowDown

Eh, any progress is good progress at this point.

Through the use of large sanders, and utility knife I got the shape of the box roughed back out, and cleaned up any loose fabric.

Sunday I will bring in my smaller/hand sanders to finish out before applying bondo.


----------



## sinister-kustoms

Great work so far! I would strongly recommend adding another few layers of glass or at least a good thick layer of duraglass to the underside of the top. Just 2 layers is still most likely to get some flex with a 10" pounding away in there. 
It would suck to get it all done, trimmed and installed only to have it flex/resonate/break apart. After all the work thus far, what's another day or two?


----------



## eviling

tuned in :snacks:


----------



## unemployedconsumer

been following the updates for a while. the nice work is pushing me towards doing some building of my own after were done with the cold weather here in michigan.


----------



## BowDown

Grabbed my drill drum sander attachment, and flat board to knock down some drips/high spots. Then I used some fiberglass resin jelly to put a 1st coat down on the kerf gaps. Also put a 1st layer down on the top. Ran a bit short on mixture, but for a 1st coat I'm happy. Will knock it down a bit tomorrow and put on a 2nd coat. After that it's onto the milkshake, then glazing putty.


----------



## Gas Is Expensive

Yikes. Lots of sanding in your future! Looks amazing dude.


----------



## BowDown

80 grit will knock it down quick. :lol:


----------



## Gas Is Expensive

BowDown said:


> 80 grit will knock it down quick. :lol:


Even 80 grit never quite does the trick for me, but I probably have no clue what I'm doing. It looks like you smeared on that Bondo (or, what looks more like Bondo Glass) with your fingers instead of a putty knife. You can save yourself a lot of sanding time if you spread that **** on smoothly!


----------



## BowDown

Haha. Well given the contours of the box my 2" spreader didn't make for an easy application. I did however use it. Most of the roughness was me just playing with it too long. Oh well. It wont take much with my arsenal of sanders/grits. Not my first rodeo here.


----------



## BowDown

Tis actually fiberglass resin jelly. Not quite as forgiving as bondo, but its a great transition to bondo.


----------



## turbo5upra

No wonder you have dang near 850 posts!


----------



## BowDown

Separate thoughts. :lol:


----------



## FLYONWALL9

SWEET BABY JESUS............. Getcho self a belt sander,
DA sander, or side grinder, and get ahold of that thing 
man...... Looks like it was a tad bit hot

Seriously though, when you made those kerfs didn't they
run a good 1/4" or so deep? IF SO, MONEY! You can mix
up some resin with glass fiber or something very fine. Put
that dude on a slight angle, I mean very slight and just 
pour in the resin to those cracks. You'll want to make a
damn at the other side to catch it from running all the 
way through.

However, if when you added the ring you filled those cracks
all the above wont work..... which case I'll go back in my
corner and keep watching......


----------



## BowDown

Haha ya the mixture was a bit hot.. The air temp was a lot warmer in my work area than I expected. Oh well some air/power sanders will make quick work of my first layer. 

The channels are about 3/16" deep. I already made a pass across them with the resin jelly. Not sure if you have worked with that product but it's pretty decent for build-up areas. Sands more uniform as well. So for the kerf cuts I'm good to go. 

The top of the box will be sanded out by the end of lunch tomorrow. I'm not sure if I want to make another layer with the jelly and spreader or if I want to toss in a small amount of resin and brush the thick milkshake over it. Leaning towrds the milkshake. 

Oh well... Either way this is the pain in the ass stage. Gotta take my time.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

BowDown said:


> Not sure if you have worked with that product but it's pretty decent for build-up areas. Sands more uniform as well. So for the kerf cuts I'm good to go.
> 
> The top of the box will be sanded out by the end of lunch tomorrow. I'm not sure if I want to make another layer with the jelly and spreader or if I want to toss in a small amount of resin and brush the thick milkshake over it. Leaning towrds the milkshake.
> 
> Oh well... Either way this is the pain in the ass stage. Gotta take my time.



You bet, I've used it. It works pretty well, as with everything it
has it uses and area's which it preforms best.

I think your next stages would be best used with resin mixed like
you suggest. Perhaps a bit more stiff in the area of mayo for less
sag and easier workability. You know you can use thin plastic 
sheet over the top of your layups called peel ply which will reduce
your sanding by 1/2 or more. You don't have to use 'peel ply' per
say, you can use plastic bags or anything kind of thin and workable.
It goes on after you put down the resin, lay it over and you can 
use a foam roller to smooth the surface. Once cured pull it off and
poof done, for the most part anyway.

Just the same, its looking really good!


----------



## BowDown

Thanks man. More sanding, and hopefully a mayo consistency milkshake. I was trying to think of a food yesterday that would describe just that consistency, but mayo works! Cheap mayo. :lol:


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Dude just get yourself some 40 grit and it will sand like butter. By the way great job so fare. looking forward to the finish product.


----------



## BowDown

Haha. Ya my thoughts exactly. Thanks for the compliments. I'm looking forwarded to the finish product as much as everyone.


----------



## edouble101

Very unique install, hope it sounds good


----------



## BowDown

Updates!

Knocked down the first layer, and used a mixture of resin jelly w/3oz of liquid resin to form a mayo kinda consistency. I then brushed this onto the enclosure. Not a whole lot to knock down on this layer, then it's onto glazing to work out the imperfections.


----------



## BLD MOVS

good lord this is going to be sweet. wait. it already is!


----------



## BowDown

Wow it was a fury of sanding during my 1hr lunch! 80grit to the rescue. I knocked almost all the filler down to where I want it. Now comes the tedious part of making sure all the contours are smooth/even. Fill in nicks.. but she's coming along nicely!


















Also have an IDQ10 at my disposal in case the xtant doesn't work out.


----------



## BowDown

Prbly should look to cut the sub hole back out! :lol:


----------



## Duncan345

BowDown said:


> Prbly should look to cut the sub hole back out! :lol:


That would probably help! Looks great so far. Did you think it would be this much work? Imagine if you didn't have all those tools at your disposal!


----------



## BowDown

Ya really. It has been alot of work but I contribute about 1/2 my time spent in just setting up, cleaning up, starting/stopping, travel (on weekends). 

If I could of just started the project and worked each day on it I'm sure I could have it done in a week. But hour here, hour there.. makes for a long project.

It's been fun though. 

Can't wait to call it done.

I ordered my terminal posts, 2pc grill, and speaker gasket tape from Parts Express today. On the home stretch!


----------



## BowDown

FedEx just dropped off my new 2pc speaker grill, speaker gasket, and terminal binding posts. Grill fits perfect!


















Today I will cut the speaker hole back out. Also fill a couple spots after another quick round of sanding.


----------



## Qyota

I just hope after all of this, that you don't get too much mechanical noise from the driver itself. Probably not a big deal at low volumes, but might become an issue at higher volumes. Did you test this with a sub on your dash (test box, perhaps?) prior to making the decision to do it?

I know some subs are better than others at being mechanically quiet. It's nice that you have the IDQ as a backup! I'd try it anyway - give both an equal opportunity to "earn" the job so to speak.


----------



## BowDown

No, I have never powered the xtant. Thought about it, but figured it would be a surprise. The IDQ however I have heard up close and is near whisper quiet. I'm also eying an old school green infinity kappa 10" on eBay. Might be a 3rd option. :lol:


----------



## DJSPANKY

rjorge said:


> It doesn't seem that you can get enough air space for a 10 inch without going towards the firewall. I really like the idea though.
> On a side note, I am also on the quest for impact up front and took a different approach to do it. I am using 7" Tang Bands underhung midbasses that will play down to 50hz mounted in ~1.0ft^3 kicks. I had to cut into behind the tires and basically made a sealed enclosure using fiberglass inside the inner fender (have one side complete). If you have mid-basses in the doors and subs in the kicks you would end up with true stereo bass response up front, something that very few people have experinced! Just my .02


rjorge- do you have this build documented? I would love to see this?


----------



## DJSPANKY

Man- this is looking great. I applaude your balls- most would not have attempted this for up front impact. Can't wait until it's finished. Nicely done


----------



## internationlriders

Pretty cool! I'm curious how the bass extension will be, if you'll get awesome bass in the front seats or to the rear? TA should be pretty sweet though huh.


----------



## BowDown

Updates!

I routed out the sub hole. Cleaned up the edges a bit (quickly). Then filled a couple low spots.

Next up a through round of sanding, test fit, then if all goes well vinyl on Sunday.


----------



## turbo5upra

polyester putty is your friend!~


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> polyester putty is your friend!~


Ya it will be. Doesn't have to be perfectly smooth though. The vinyl has a thin backing on it.


----------



## itskoji

really cool build!!


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

That grille looks seriously sweet, almost like it was build for that specific sub!

I'm pretty sure you won't get any mechanical noise from that Xtant, unless you're seriously overpowering it. I guess if you don't have enough clearance for the grille that could make some noise as well. Over the last 7 years of using various Xtant subs, the only times I've been able to hear mechanical noise are when the sub is bottoming (which is somewhat difficult to do) or when the dust cap itself comes unglued (which is easy to fix). Oh yeah, some of the X-series also had problems with audible tinsel lead slap (also easy to fix - glue some CCF to the cone) when you exceed Xmax by 200% or more. Ask me how I know...


----------



## FLYONWALL9

An old green Kappa would be SWEET! I've seen some really killer
NEW old school 10s as of late. MTX blue thunder, OZ superman
MUCH less than the 250each I paid for mine, Sony ES, MAN I 
need LOTTO.....

Spot putty would be FAR easier to use and you could sand it
by hand in seconds. IF your going to cover it in vinyl. I know
sanding will start to get old at some point, so, I thew you that
option.

CHEERS, STILL LOOKIN GOOD!


----------



## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> That grille looks seriously sweet, almost like it was build for that specific sub!
> 
> I'm pretty sure you won't get any mechanical noise from that Xtant, unless you're seriously overpowering it. I guess if you don't have enough clearance for the grille that could make some noise as well. Over the last 7 years of using various Xtant subs, the only times I've been able to hear mechanical noise are when the sub is bottoming (which is somewhat difficult to do) or when the dust cap itself comes unglued (which is easy to fix). Oh yeah, some of the X-series also had problems with with audible tinsel lead slap (also easy to fix - glue some CCF to the cone) when you exceed Xmax by 200% or more. Ask me how I know...


The grill does fit great. Near perfect. Fits much better on the xtant than the idq. Should be more than enough clearance for xmax without shimming.

Movin on up!

On the home stretch. I can see the end now. 

Do wish I had a right angle drill to bore the mounting holes, but I think I have a work around.


----------



## kunstmilch

subscribed.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

BowDown said:


> Do wish I had a right angle drill to bore the mounting holes, but I think I have a work around.


Skewdriver would be my first choice.

These work great with a drill bit that comes in many 18v
drill kits. You can find the bits at any HomeDep and the 
drivers are pretty widely used also. Far less then having
to buy a right angle drill and work great for other car 
audio uses in and around the dash.

Spec Tools: Professional

I'm sure you can find them less for other makes, this was
the first one I could dig up in a hurry.


----------



## kunstmilch

Festool, worth the money and yes, they are expensive.


----------



## sydmonster

I can't stands no more..... 

I've been deliberately holding off posting, avoiding a blemish or even the ol repetetive "nice work"....

I wanted to save a post 'till it was finished, but I can't. This is such a cool little (big) project. The best part has been watching it evolve...


----------



## BowDown

sydmonster said:


> I can't stands no more.....
> 
> I've been deliberately holding off posting, avoiding a blemish or even the ol repetetive "nice work"....
> 
> I wanted to save a post 'till it was finished, but I can't. This is such a cool little (big) project. The best part has been watching it evolve...


Thanks man. I'm kinda amazed at the amount of time it's taken me.. but I'm glad others are enjoying the ride. Can't wait to get the vinyl on this Sunday.


----------



## BowDown

Well I've got admit I'm not 100% happy with the fitment. I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to do to correct it. Between the skeleton, couple layers of cloth, couple layers of bondo it's built up higher than expected. 

Otherwise I do need to take about 1/8" all the way around the baffle for clearance (vinyl). The sub grill barely fits into the opening I had cut. Original design did not include a grill of this style.

Here's a few pics:


----------



## kunstmilch

Two things:

1) Has anyone considered what that magnet is going to do to the radio or other electronics?

2) Have you you considered wrapping the entire top of the dash so it looks like (or is) one single unit?


----------



## BowDown

kunstmilch said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1) Has anyone considered what that magnet is going to do to the radio or other electronics?
> 
> 2) Have you you considered wrapping the entire top of the dash so it looks like (or is) one single unit?


Magnet is far enough away to not cause any issue. 

Haha, I'm not pulling the dash out. I'm not THAT crazy .


----------



## kunstmilch

Alright alright, but you could "wrap" it, like a kinda sorta dash cover, no?


----------



## cubdenno

BowDown said:


> Magnet is far enough away to not cause any issue.
> 
> Haha, I'm not pulling the dash out. I'm not THAT crazy .


Riiiiiiiiiiigggghhhht!!!!!


----------



## BowDown

kunstmilch said:


> Alright alright, but you could "wrap" it, like a kinda sorta dash cover, no?


Well this isn't done yet. I still plan on wrapping it to match the dash. I will be covering it with a custom dash mat as well. I'm my worst critic is all this is. :lol:


----------



## kunstmilch

Just tear everything out, put it all back to how it was, then rip the steering wheel off and put the sub there, with handles of course (safety first!)


----------



## BowDown

kunstmilch said:


> Just tear everything out, put it all back to how it was, then rip the steering wheel off and put the sub there, with handles of course (safety first!)


:lol:


----------



## kunstmilch

Hey, it could be done, besides, this would allow room, for, say, an 18"er? (Now that **** would be funny!)


----------



## turbo5upra

ehh we gutted bobs car and had 2 screws left over... we knew were they went and didn't want to put them back in


----------



## Notloudenuf

Very nice.

What thread did you have those crazy mids in?


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> Very nice.
> 
> What thread did you have those crazy mids in?


Should be towards the end of my SQ install thread in my signature.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

I'm amazed you can get that thing in (and out) without removing your windshield!


----------



## BowDown

Lol. By design.


----------



## BowDown

I think my dash mat will need a bit of modification. :lol:


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

I kind of figured you'd taken the windshield thing into account, but it wasn't until I saw it in place that I realized what a tight squeeze it was (or appeared to be lol).

Yeah that dash mat will need a little modification. Wait, didn't you have a red one before? Has that one been nixed?

EDIT, never mind, I saw you still had a gray one on page one. I must have been thinking of my car...


----------



## BowDown

Na the mat has always been a gray one. Kinda disappointed with the color of the mat though. I thought the Charcoal would be more like Charcoal and not medium-gray. Was thinking of going with a red one and having them ship me some extra material with it. 

With the way the dash cuts are I really only need to elevate the enclosure about 2" above it's final resting spot, and slide the enclosure into the dash. I wouldn't be able to get it in from the top without removing the stereo bezel.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Remind me, how are you going to fill those holes where the radio and vents were? Center channel?

:lol:


----------



## BowDown

I'm going to take a rectangle piece of plastic and hot glue it to the vent stack then wrap alminum duct tape around it to close off the vent behind the box.

The stereo bezel I'm going to create a plug for the heads up display, and one to shrink down the double-din to a single din. All will be smoothed over with fiberglass. 

Once done I'm thinking I'll wrap the bezel with the plaid fabric I bought for the headliner (extra, might eventually get to that project).


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Sounds like this car will never have a stock interior again...

Not that that's a bad thing. 

Oh yeah, I'd hesitate on putting that fabric anywhere people touch, it seems like it would soil easily and be difficult to clean.


----------



## BowDown

Stereo bezel is already an aftermarket piece. The stock bezel in in a storage box in my basement. :lol:


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Gotcha. Didn't realize that.


----------



## BowDown

Boss was breaking my chops about a dip in the back left corner, and the profile being slightly different from left to right. So now that he planted that seed in my head I could see it every time I looked at it. Added another layer of filler and I think after some sanding that should cure it.


----------



## n_olympios

Snow! You've got snow! 

Oh great work, by the way.


----------



## turbo5upra

n_olympios said:


> Snow! You've got snow!
> 
> Oh great work, by the way.


lol we have been spared...... only 15 or so inches this year....4' 50 miles west of us last week


----------



## BowDown

Only got about 2hrs to work on it today. Kinda sucks but got alot done.

Here's a pic of it after sanding the last layer:










Marked out the areas I needed to hog out to fit the sub grill. Then test fit the grill and sub:


















Then I marked out the areas to spot fill, filled, then sanded with progressively finer grits down to 240grit:

















Test fit back into the car. Think we have a winner! Looks better in person:


















Vinyl will go on tomorrow during lunch.


----------



## southpawskater

Have you fired it up yet? Hows it sound?


----------



## BowDown

Nope. Wont get power till it's cosmetically done.


----------



## 30something

BowDown said:


> Nope. Wont get power till it's cosmetically done.


Wise words. Otherwise it's way too easy to put off.


----------



## n_olympios

Very nice! 

Is it me or does it protrude a bit more than it ought to in the front side, above the centre console?


----------



## BowDown

Ya design flaw. It has to overhang the stereo bezel by 1/2". But ended up thicker than expected.


----------



## n_olympios

Whatever, this doesn't make it less of a project. I still envy your courage.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

I agree, this doesn't make this project any less of a build. However,
its fiberglass, you can cut this thing up 23 different ways and put it
back together again. If it were me that leading edge would driver me
insane. I would take a sander to it, knock that down to match the 
rest of the dash. Wipe it with kitty hair or bondo sand, paint with 
guide coat, final sand. Call it a day. Then again if your not worried
with it piss on it. leter roll.....


----------



## BowDown

I would but if ya look back in the pics the overhang is just that. Lol. Not solid. There's only a bit that can be taken off. Looks worse in pics and being a different color than the dash.


----------



## BowDown

Wife's holiday shopping won out my lunch hour. Now that I'm all set tomorrow is the new vinyl day.


----------



## Texas Made

looking good


----------



## Mic10is

FLYONWALL9 said:


> I agree, this doesn't make this project any less of a build. However,
> its fiberglass, you can cut this thing up 23 different ways and put it
> back together again. If it were me that leading edge would driver me
> insane. I would take a sander to it, knock that down to match the
> rest of the dash. Wipe it with kitty hair or bondo sand, paint with
> guide coat, final sand. Call it a day. Then again if your not worried
> with it piss on it. leter roll.....


Agreed. thatd bug the hell outta me.
I'd hit it with some 40 grit on a DA and then fill back in as needed


----------



## BowDown

Mic10is said:


> Agreed. thatd bug the hell outta me.
> I'd hit it with some 40 grit on a DA and then fill back in as needed


Again I would invite you to look back on how the overhang was constructed. There's not as much material to remove as you think. I can knock down a bit of the edge to create a more gradual transition but given the design there's no corrective action other than cutting off the overhang, gouging out the glass above it and trying some kind of thin metal lip to glass over.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

I did search back through and see what your talking about. Your kerf core is at the level of the dash. So, had you glassed the bottom of it and a very thin coat on top to mold the woofer it MAY have matched better if no warping took place. To fix the issue one would have to cut it off where it starts to bow out, that lip in the dash you would mask off and stretch cloth. That would need to stay thin to stay conformed to that dash contour. A fast fix would be to just add some thin foam to the rest of the dash pad to match the sub. 

I still reserve you have done a GREAT job and have advanced your skill set
greatly throughout this process.

Anyone wondering you can view pics of this topic that BOWDOWN is talking about on 6, 7, 8.

Cheers, and I'm looking forward to your review on how it sounds.


----------



## BowDown

While it can be fixed I don't think at this point it's going to be worth the effort. Once the box is covered in vinyl it will be less obvious. I'm fine with it as is. Just want to power it up and move on to the amp rack, midbass upgrade and hours of tuning again. Lol. 

This is actually my most complex fiberglass project to date. Sure I would do things different a 2nd time, but who wouldn't. Lol.


----------



## FLYONWALL9

BowDown said:


> This is actually my most complex fiberglass project to date. Sure I would do things different a 2nd time, but who wouldn't. Lol.



Like I said you have come a LONG way, from here out I think your other glass projects will only improve. Glass has a learning curve, you know that, so does anyone else who has worked with it.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of that 'tube driver' one of my all time LUST after amps.................


----------



## BowDown

I've used the old tube drivers before with prefabed component sets and they were decent but my speakers, processing, ears and amp technology are far superior. I hope for great things.


----------



## Duncan345

I'm really impressed that you got a full sized subwoofer in there, even if there is a very small lip. It will probably look fine. You could go back and build up the thickness of that center stack piece to make them match if it's bothering you after it's all done.


----------



## odj23

I've been watching this thread for a while and I have to say I'm impressed with the outcome thus far. Looking forward to seeing it finished.

I do have to wonder if the dash is going to rattle like crazy.


----------



## BowDown

F**K about sums it up!

Apparently the glue I had laying around was not a good idea. The stuff kinda came out a bit weird, but I chalked it up to being 90 series (I usually use super 77). As I started laying the vinyl down after flashing 2 minutes it seemed to stick decent, but I noticed I couldn't get the bubbles to iron out. The glue itself was causing bumps under the vinyl. Motherfucker! What a let down.  I decided to press on (no pun intended) after noticing I could pull it off with some effort, to see if I could get this backed vinyl to conform the way it needed and it will.. but now I have some sanding ahead of me.

I'm thinking a scouring pad might be a good start to getting this glue off?

Aftermath:


----------



## FLYONWALL9

Any chance you have an old mixing board with some of that 
filler left on it? Or maybe whatever you used to spread it on
the box? If so, test some thing like denatured alcohol to see
if it will eat it up. Perhaps something on the underside of the
face? I would bet that it wont mess with the filler yet it should
get off the sticky pretty easily with a scotch pad.

Lastly, you can heat up your vinyl with a heat gun or even a
floor heater a bit and peel the backing off. this will help you
lay it down into the lip where your grill is going to sit. This 
should also give you a bit more space so your grill isn't tighter
than dicks hatband.

The only thing you have to be mindful of is pulling the vinyl
tightly across a large surface may void the grain. 

BUT, yes I do think you will be fine using denatured alcohol
to clean up that mess. Get some GOOD new super77 or 
better so it wont pull up on hot days under so much glass....


----------



## n_olympios

Did you apply the glue with a brush? You should only really use a spray gun...


----------



## turbo5upra

we have a few cans of 77  Heck I gots me one under the kitchen sink for those quick fixes.


----------



## BowDown

n_olympios said:


> Did you apply the glue with a brush? You should only really use a spray gun...


Haha no. 

I bought a new can of spray adhesive. It's a new product from 3m. Rubber and Vinyl formula... give it a shot today during lunch if I can get the old stuff off in time.


----------



## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> we have a few cans of 77  Heck I gots me one under the kitchen sink for those quick fixes.


77 might not be enough. I got a few of those myself.


----------



## kunstmilch

Out of curiosity, have you tried an adhesive called Barge Cement? It's what a number of industries use to bond things together. I have used it to bond copper and leather and a number of other things together. It works great. I have not tried it on fiberglass myself, but wouldn't hesitate. 

You can use it in two ways, one is to use it just like a normal contact cement where you let each side dry, then apply it; or you can sludge it on and stretch the material over it and rub it out (get your minds out of the gutter) until it's set.

Just a thought, the stuff works great for leather.


----------



## BowDown

Updates from Thursday:

Built my tray, bored wiring holes and clearance areas, mounted hinge, mounted piece in car to catch hinge, and started laying out equipment.


----------



## BowDown

Sunday's updates: 

I drilled the bottom of the tray and installed various nut inserts to mount down my equipment. After a test fit I began wiring. The RCA's will be swapped out for custom ones once I pay/receive the stuff from Adam. I might do something different with the distro block wiring, and pick up some sleeving... but as of right now I'm in a time crunch. I have to have my stereo functional by Wednesday morning as I'm making a 12hr trip to NC. 

I'm planning on carpeting the tray with charcoal carpet to match the trunk. Then making a removable cover for the rack with plexy windows showing the amp, and crossovers. Maybe toss in a few LEDs for bling.


----------



## BowDown

Just occurred to me I really don't need the fused distro block any more now that my amp has built-in fuses. :lol: If I can find my other matching distro (to the ground block) I will mount em on the side wall of the tray, and center up the amp in the rack.


----------



## Notloudenuf

Just me being nosey, but where in NC are you headed?
I am east of I-95 towards the ocean.

Maybe if everything works out we could meet up somewhere. 
Let me know via PM and have a safe trip.


----------



## BowDown

Douche bag mechanic kicked me out of the shop during lunch 1/2way through my amp rack wiring. So I continued in the cold, but didn't get as much done as I had hoped. The amp rack is hung, and wires pulled. Going to have to temporarily lengthen the RCA's and power wiring for the time being. Gotta get this thing back to functional ASAP. 

The amp rack does fold up nicely, but with no catches to keep it up I can't take a decent pic.


----------



## mrj7500

Just finishing reading this thread, wow! Your craftsman ship is great and your ingenuity is inspiring. Keep up the great work.


----------



## Darkwhip

Amazing work I wish I had your patience.


----------



## BowDown

Box is on hold till Sunday. Should have enough hands to be able to properly wrap it in vinyl. So in the meantime I decided to cut out the adapter rings for the 6" TB Underhung Midbasses that are replacing the 5.25" TB Subs in the front doors.

Made em out of a nice 1/2" thick cutting board.

Here's some pics:


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Nice job on the HDPE rings. Did you check for clearance inside the door panels? I've had issues with that nab me once or twice. I may be making my next set out of scrap Corian if I ever get around to my Land Rover build, have you ever tried using that?


----------



## BowDown

Well my current adapters are out of the same stuff and as far as depth to the door card it works. My concern is motor structure clearance in the door itself. I'm 95% sure it will fit without any modification but it's going to be damn close! Will find out tomorrow. I'm planning on installing these during lunch. 

Never used corian. What is it?


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

It's a "solid surface countertop" name brand. Basically imitation marble or stone, but it's actually a very hard, solid plastic about 1/2" thick. I've got some ivory colored scraps I picked up on a recent job, which match my Rover's body color pretty closely. Color matters in this case because they might have to be surface mounted on the panel (that's how the original drivers are).


----------



## BowDown

Pretty cool. That's what came to mind when I saw the name of it.. but then was like.. na, gotta be something else.

Cool I could see that working well. It's a bit harder than cutting board. 

The fusion has a 3" plastic baffle extension piece that comes off the metal access panel into the door. It actually makes life easy for midbass depth. If the midbasses don't fit I can always drill out the rivets on the extensions and build my own.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Pretty cool. That's what came to mind when I saw the name of it.. but then was like.. na, gotta be something else.
> 
> Cool I could see that working well. It's a bit harder than cutting board.
> 
> The fusion has a 3" plastic baffle extension piece that comes off the metal access panel into the door. It actually makes life easy for midbass depth. If the midbasses don't fit I can always drill out the rivets on the extensions and build my own.


Yeah, I'll probably have to cut it in several slow, shallow passes with my router.

That is a very nice setup. I listened to my dad's stock Fusion and it seemed surprisingly good for stock, so I'd say you've got a good platform to work with. I seem to choose the worst vehicles for stereos sometimes.

(Not that you've limited yourself entirely to stock locations. :lol


----------



## BowDown

This is tru. I'm not a big fan of kick panels though.. so I highly doubt I will ever go that route in my install.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

I haven't skimmed your main build log recently, did you stick with the factory sail panel for tweeters?

Nah, I believe in stock locations for mids in all but the most atrocious situations. I will probably even try the atrocious stock mid location first in my Rover which and get a tweeter that can be crossed low... Kicks would be even worse, with the tall narrow shape of the cab. Dash pods would be my only other option.

The old Nissan and Ford are both more viable for kicks if I ever needed them.


----------



## BowDown

Na I replaced the stock sail tweeter panels for just blank panels. I molded my neo3 and neo8 planars into the A-Pillar.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Gotcha, I'll have to check that out later. I'm pretty sure none of my vehicles have thick enough pillars for that approach, lol.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Just saw the size of those, and yeah those would look ridiculous on my tiny A-pillars. Nice execution with the idea, though.


----------



## BowDown

Odd thing is I had the neo8's in a box for about 5 years. Never powered em up.. One day a buddy of mine wanted to try them.. and I was hooked! It's so sweet being able to crossover your midbasses at 450hz and have everything else up front and above the dash.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Odd thing is I had the neo8's in a box for about 5 years. Never powered em up.. One day a buddy of mine wanted to try them.. and I was hooked! It's so sweet being able to crossover your midbasses at 450hz and have everything else up front and above the dash.


Yes, that is a very appealing benefit. I'm concerned I may someday do similarly in one of my rides, but it's more of a time commitment than I like when I'm not getting paid.


----------



## Custom Chris

Excellent work!

I couldn't help noticing those midbasses look nearly identical to RE XXX V1 midbasses (bar the dust cap).
Do you have any specs on them?



Keep up the good work


----------



## BowDown

If you go to partsexpress.com and look up the tang band underhung 6.5" midbass they have a pdf of specs. I'm on my blackberry or I'd like ya direct. Thanks for the feedback. It's coming along nicely.


----------



## req

pics arent working


----------



## turbo5upra

pics work here


----------



## BowDown

Was hoping the server wasn't down. :lol: Work here as well.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

req said:


> pics arent working


Sucks for you...

Yeah they work fine on my end as well.


----------



## BowDown

Might be working outside during my lunch today. Going to pop off the door panels and mount the new midbasses. Hope they fit!


----------



## ToddG

Did I miss the last update on how the dash turned-out?!...can't seem to find it.


----------



## BowDown

ToddG said:


> Did I miss the last update on how the dash turned-out?!...can't seem to find it.


No, dash is on hold till Sunday. Between going out of state and needing a working stereo (hence the amp rack temp install), and needing 2 sets of hands for the vinyl I haven't been able to try the vinyl again. So look for updates Sunday evening.


----------



## BowDown

No go on the midbasses. The motor structure is too large. I would have to cut quite a bit to fit them.  

They are now in the classifieds section. :lol:


----------



## Notloudenuf

BowDown said:


> No go on the midbasses. The motor structure is too large. I would have to cut quite a bit to fit them.


I told you so. :laugh: :blush: :worried:

Seriously... sorry they didn't fit, I bet they would have been awesome up front.


----------



## BowDown

Notloudenuf said:


> I told you so. :laugh: :blush: :worried:
> 
> Seriously... sorry they didn't fit, I bet they would have been awesome up front.


Was waiting for this reply. :lol:

They barely fit in the plastic baffle piece, but the inner door card would have to be cut up in order to recess the motor into the door itself. They could be made to fit, but I don't want to cut the metal.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> They barely fit in the plastic baffle piece, but the inner door card would have to be cut up in order to recess the motor into the door itself. They could be made to fit, but I don't want to cut the metal.


r u scared?








(yes that's a challenge, :lol


----------



## BowDown

Haha. I'm talking myself into it...


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Haha. I'm talking myself into it...


I'll help - I had to cut the metal a bit to get my 6.5" midbasses into my Nissan, and 7 years later I don't regret it. Never have, in fact. (Then again, my Nissan was a $500 broken-down car when I bought it, not brand spankin' new like yours.) But yeah, a car is a car, and if you plan on keeping it for a while you might as well enjoy it. I mean how much stuff did you already cut out of the dash? :lol:

You're obviously approaching this much more intelligently than a teenager with a can of spray paint and a Honda Civic, I'm pretty sure you can figure out a way to do this without hurting resale value. Just don't forget rust inhibitor...


----------



## Notloudenuf

BowDown said:


> They could be made to fit, but I don't want to cut the metal.


Dude, seriously, after what you did to the dash, a little sheet metal behind the door panel is nothing.


----------



## BowDown

LOL. Guess ur right. Maybe sunday I will get more adventurous.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

I believe cutting sheet metal will put you into a different class if you ever compete in MECA, though...


----------



## turbo5upra

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> I believe cutting sheet metal will put you into a different class if you ever compete in MECA, though...


Guess I will bring the sledge hammer,.... "it ain't cut" lol


----------



## BowDown

Haha. I don't think it's going to put me any higher than modifying the dash did.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Haha. I don't think it's going to put me any higher than modifying the dash did.


True, true. Might as well play with the big boys then?


----------



## BowDown

Ya it's all about how I like it anyway. Screw MECA. Course I am curious what their opinion is. :lol:


----------



## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> Ya it's all about how I like it anyway. Screw MECA. Course I am curious what their opinion is. :lol:


"Your a wee bit lite in the loafers." would be my guess.




OHHH you meant about the stereo.


----------



## TimesCaptured

God I followed all the way to page 16 and I am on pins and needles.


----------



## BowDown

Well I got the the box top wrapped in vinyl today. The corners aren't quite there yet.. but for my first attempt in vinyl I think it came out damn good!


----------



## Thumper26

putting the sub in the dash put him in a new MECA class. you can cut the sheet metal behind the doors and stay in street.


----------



## Notloudenuf

That looks damn good.


----------



## ToddG

Notloudenuf said:


> That looks damn good.


x200


----------



## ALL4SQ

Enjoying the Build pictures. Looks nice.


----------



## sinister-kustoms

Brilliant! How long 'till the sub is in and running?


----------



## BowDown

Thanks guys. I'm pretty happy with the way the vinyl came out. I did get some spray glue on the finished surface but the goo gone took care of it. 

I'm going to work during lunch this week to get the mounting points drilled, terminal posts installed, sub installed. Then I need to pull the carpet and run new custom RCA's and sub speaker wire down the center of my car. Then I can fire it up! 

On the home stretch.


----------



## BowDown

Preview of the sub/grill in the box. Sexy.


----------



## estione

Very nice :cool2::cool2:


----------



## southpawskater

Looks great, I’ve been watching this from the beginning and its awesome to see it all coming together. Not bad progress for a lunch break a day!!!


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Wow, brilliant. Xtant cosmetics plus a careful installation is always a winning formula IMO. That black-on-black look is pretty hot.


----------



## BowDown

Ya really. Makes for a slow progress though. Course things always take twice as long as you think..


----------



## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> Wow, brilliant. Xtant cosmetics plus a careful installation is always a winning formula IMO. That black-on-black look is pretty hot.


True. Just looking at the pic made me pop off the grill and clock the xtant logo straight. :lol: Would drive me up the wall having the logo turned like that when mounted down.


----------



## DJSPANKY

Looks fantastic. Excellent build and I've enjoyed the build log. How are you attaching the sub to the enclosure? T-nuts?


----------



## BowDown

Sub to the enclosure is just security screws. The sub enclosure to the car is t-nuts and bolts.


----------



## ekrunch

BowDown said:


> Sub to the enclosure is just security screws. The sub enclosure to the car is t-nuts and bolts.


Two questions...

1) Where did you get that Vinyl? Looks nice and smooth, very nice look.

2) Why no t-nuts on the sub?

Congratulations on the build man. Looks like some great stuff going on in this car. I'm super jealous of that front stage setup.


----------



## BowDown

I don't know if I have enough surface area for the nut. I'll have to take a look. I used nutserts on my amp rack this time around. Came out great. 

I'll post a link to the vinyl in a bit. 

Vinyl was a bit heavy weight was tons of fun to work with. Lol.


----------



## BowDown

Took what time I had during my lunch and taped off the enclosure, and sprayed it with (2) coats of rubberized undercoating.


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

Looking good. I'm assuming you have enough clearance for the extra thickness?


----------



## BowDown

Ya, there's actually about 1/4" on each side of the side panels. 

I wish I had a warm place to pull in my car during lunch. I could get alot more done. Sunday is the next actual work day.


----------



## eviling

oh lol i thought i finished this **** weeks ago  looks good though!


----------



## TJ Mobile Audio

X2 on the warm place to put my vehicles... I've got a few glassing projects and some miscellaneous body work on hold due to winter.


----------



## BowDown

Ha, it will be finished when it's mounted and operational. :lol: Can't wait!


----------



## eviling

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> X2 on the warm place to put my vehicles... I've got a few glassing projects and some miscellaneous body work on hold due to winter.


 yeah agreed i have a few projects i wanna start, gonna start an amp rack, and a glassed sub enclosure soon as it warms up.


----------



## Greg200SE-R

Amazing stuff... very impressive. Sorry if I missed it somewhere in the thread, but are the passive XOs just temporary as well? Thought your system was active.


----------



## BowDown

Nope the passive xo's are going to stay. The alpine f1 crossovers are awesome and foot the bill pretty well. I have the midbass on 2 channels, and the mid/tweet on the other 2 channels. Allows me to adjust TA perfect. Wouldn't gain anything really by going full active.


----------



## BowDown

Really itching to power it up. Looks like Sunday should be a good day!


----------



## bikerider

Too bad you can't power it up on the desk! That looks like it came from the factory, well done.


----------



## l3mur

Wow, that looks awesome. Can't wait to see installed pics


----------



## dales

VERY nice


----------



## BowDown

T-Nuts & Terminals installed! On the home stretch now...


----------



## Jh8909

wow i can't wait for vids, this is exciting. also wish i lived closer so i could get a demo  

coming to NJ anytime soon? haha


----------



## BowDown

To Do List:

-run the RCA lead for the 5th channel from HU-Amp
-run speaker wire to that location
-mark/drill out the hole in the metal dash support
-vacumm out the box
-install poly fill
-speaker leads
-speaker gasket
-screw down sub
-clip on grill
-mount/wireup box in car
-fire it up!

Lots of little things. Will get the mounting holes drilled out tomorrow during lunch, and possibly the sub into the box. Should be ready to rock for a Sunday morning listen.


----------



## BowDown

Jh8909 said:


> wow i can't wait for vids, this is exciting. also wish i lived closer so i could get a demo
> 
> coming to NJ anytime soon? haha


Ur about 5.5hrs away.. not too bad. LOL. 

Trying to get a local shop owner to host a meet this spring in Syracuse (about 6hrs). You should come out.


----------



## Jh8909

BowDown said:


> Ur about 5.5hrs away.. not too bad. LOL.
> 
> Trying to get a local shop owner to host a meet this spring in Syracuse (about 6hrs). You should come out.


I would if I had anything worth coming out with, im selling all my gear to pay off a loan. 

but still can't wait to see vids of this thing!...

you are going to take vids rightttttttttttttttt?


----------



## BowDown

I could, but honestly what does a video show you? Outside of the fact it produces sound. :lol:

The 10" sub isn't going to move the windshield, and the imaging isn't going to create a hologram on the windshield. Would be cool though.

Not trying to be an ass, just curious.


----------



## Jh8909

BowDown said:


> I could, but honestly what does a video show you? Outside of the fact it produces sound. :lol:
> 
> The 10" sub isn't going to move the windshield, and the imaging isn't going to create a hologram on the windshield. Would be cool though.
> 
> Not trying to be an ass, just curious.


just mainly the fact that its working is all i want to see. and reading that through text is cool, but a video would do it justice. just my .02 cents


----------



## eviling

i love it, the only hting i dont like is seeing the sub logo, take some paint thinner to that bad boy and loose the logo. other than, aces bro. grade A work


----------



## BowDown

Thanks. I have heard this style grill has some resonance ringing issues. I may have to cover the grill mesh with some grill cloth to dampen the ringing. So you wont be seeing the logo. For now I just want to test it naked. Ultimately most of the hard work will be covered by a dash mat unless I wish to show it off. Less theft risk that way.


----------



## BowDown

Today was a productive day as far as seeing what I got myself into. :lol:

Today I made a speaker gasket, installed the inside wiring, installed the fiberfill, mounted the sub. I then did the push test on the cone and she was nice and firm. No audible leaks. Firm and springy. 

I then bench tested the sub box using my friend's car. Sounded great. Clean and no audible mechanical noise. 

This then gave me the drive to run a couple temporary wires so I could power it up in my own car...

AWESOME! Few small rattles, much better than I thought. The sub fills out the stage very nice. I still get the back of the seat vibration, but the upfront presence is something really different than I had though time alignment before. You have to hear it to understand. I tried a couple different crossover points.. 80hz, 100hz, 125hz... when you get up into 125hz it actually narrows the stage in the respect of all the sound coming from above the dash. The footwells don't have that filled out sound. Still have a **** ton of tuning and such to go.. but overall she's got alot of potential. 

Not bad for only having 2.5hrs... I'm impressed. 

Couple pics of the sub install/testing. 

For the people that wanted a videoclip I took a quick one of the sub working on the test bench. Don't know what it shows ya.. but whatever. LOL


























Video Link: http://webmail.srsloan.com:443/dukesstreet/members/bowdown/fusion/01-23-2011/VID 00007.3GP


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## quality_sound

I LOVE the sound of a dash sub.


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## benhinkle711

Well I just read through the WHOLE thread in one sitting. I gotta admit I'm very impressed with your skills, patience, original thinking and extremely large balls. I expect that if you tried the IDQ you'll like it more than the Xtant in this arrangement. Either way I'm sure it will sound amazing and excellent work!


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## BowDown

While I'm not an xtant fan boy by any means.. I personally think their new stuff is junk.. but anyway, it really does sound damn good. This is their old school, high efficiency, well built sub. Just listening to it in a hatch that I also heard a small sealed IDQ 10v2 I would say it's right on par.

Besides the motor structure of the IDQ v2 didn't fit in this box. :lol: I had built it with the xtant in mind the whole time. 

Thanks for the props. More pics to be posted once it's secured down, dash bezel completed, and dash mat modifications complete. Also have to apply grill cloth to the metal grill to kill the resonate ringing from the mesh.


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## turbo5upra

BowDown said:


> While I'm not an xtant fan boy by any means.. I personally think their new stuff is junk.


Your done for! going to print this and bring it to the next meet!


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## BowDown

turbo5upra said:


> Your done for! going to print this and bring it to the next meet!


Haha. Whatever you think will give you an edge. I have kicked your scores ass twice now. It's only going up after this dash sub. :laugh:



This Sunday morning is dedicated to working on the amp rack latch, and air cylinder. Once this is done I will be removing the amp rack and doing all the aesthetic touches. Then running new vehicle RCA wiring. Then after this is done the stereo bezel will be removed from the car and I will start the fiberglass work on that. 

Look for more updates to my Fusion SQ link in my signature. Only updates to this thread will be final install pictures after the grill and dashmat are modified/installed.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

Good execution as always, I knew you'd like that sub. You gave me a lesson in how an Xtant *should* be installed, now I must repent...

:lol:


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## TJ Mobile Audio

BowDown said:


> Also have to apply grill cloth to the metal grill to kill the resonate ringing from the mesh.


If the grille cloth doesn't damp it adequately, what about pressing a small bit of CLD to the inside of the grille?


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## BowDown

TJ Mobile Audio said:


> If the grille cloth doesn't damp it adequately, what about pressing a small bit of CLD to the inside of the grille?


That is an idea.

I would imagine about a 1" diameter circle of SPL tile would deaden the ringing. Just a matter of what it would look like, and if the sun would cause it to release off the grill and fall down onto the sub. 

The xtant is a nice piece. Was glad to discover there is no audible mechanical noise.


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## TJ Mobile Audio

^ you could stitch the edges of the CLD with some really heavy-duty thread...

Oh yeah, I've always figured the reason Xtant subs get overlooked is simply that they were overshadowed by the reputation of their amps. I've only ever run into mechanical noise on the newer ones, and even then it was an easy fix. One needed the dustcap re-glued, one needed a thicker piece of foam on the back of the cone to control tinsel lead slap at extreme excursion. Oh and there was one that I managed to bottom doing about 3x RMS, after pulling the spider loose... Reglued the spider, brought my gains back into check, and I'm still using the same sub 2 years later.

The one you got was spared my abuse, I only powered it once to make sure it worked before shipping. I know there are many, many subs on the market as good as the Xtants, but I've always liked their build quality and resilience. I can't speak for the newest models, I'm not sure they actually exist...

Just be glad you didn't have to glass a hexagon.


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## BowDown

Ya me too. My eyes were crossing enough with the round glasswork.. couldn't imagine a hex. :lol:


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## TJ Mobile Audio

Would have been like this, but less ghetto, lol:


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## Schnitz

This is dedication. Well done!
Can't wait to hear what your thoughts of the final output are.


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## bikerider

You could also make a custom grill to combat the resonance issue. Especially if it's going to be covered by a dash pad. Wood ring, attach some metal mesh or screening and cover in grill cloth.


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## BowDown

I would imagine just using some light spray glue and grill cloth will fix the resonance issue.


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## Afronaut

That is a sexy looking install...great attention to detail.


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## eviling

but what do you do if you want a center now :O


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## turbo5upra

make a bracket for a tweeter that can be crossed @ 125


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## BowDown

Haha thanks guys. This project will be concluded after the stereo bezel is molded for the carPC. You can see any future updates in my SQ Install thread linked in my signature.


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## jgolomb

Just ran through the whole build, wasn't watching the progress as you went along. Really, really nice ingenuity and fabrication - especially as a DIY! Hats off and a 'guy nod' to ya'!
Question of the thread is: Does it give you what you were after in terms of presence and feel? My only concern in the design was that with it being up-firing that the some sound would blow past you before it gets a chance to develop, although you get a lot of help there loading off the windshield. Really only thinking in terms of low sub freqs, not the upper sub region or blending into midbass. Anyway, tell us what you think in regards to achieving yor sonic goal!

Also, you may at some point put serious consideration into pulling the dash out and taking care of all rattle resonance issues. I did it in my Eclipse and it really isn't as hard as you would think, actually it wasn't hard at all (just felt daunting thinking "I've got the whole dash out"). You could do it complete in a day, out and back in. Pull it out, then you have the opportunity to deaden the dash itself from the backside, use fiberfill, thin foam, whatever to fill in anywhere needed and wrap all your wire harnesses with strips of trunkliner (cut into appropriate size strips, spray one side of the t-liner, let it tack and wrap wires and harnesses like you would use loom). PM me and I'll send you a pic or two of what I'm talking about. I would highly recomend it, I've got a sub up front and it was really worth doing. Something to plan for in the future!
Serious kudo's again on the build, nice job.
- Jeff


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## jrs1006

subscribed


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## BowDown

Thanks for all the positive feedback. The sub upfront at first was a big let down. This until I went through some time alignment and flipped the phase on the sub. WOW that made a huge difference. The sub blends very well up front and alot more of the 'presence' I was looking for is there. You can definitely pick up cues that the bass is originating from upfront. This is also because of my higher crossover point of 125hz. 

I plan on removing the dash at some point in life to sound deaden. Have to say as a whole there are alot less rattles/squeaks than expected.. but there are a couple that drive me wild. 

Can't wait to get the system powered back up. I'm changing source units over to a carPC and have the amp rack out for cosmetic finishing. 

Check the SQ install thread in my signature for future updates. 

Curious to see your sub install build. Do you have a thread?


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## raresvintea

excelent job man!!!!!


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## littlejuanito

This was amazing. Great job.


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## mtbwrx

generally sub frequencies below 100hz are non directional.
so, the higher you go above that will draw your ear and brain towards the dash sub. 
you could also try running not so much as a Sub, but more as a high-sub.
Try say 80hz - 160hz or 50-100?

you'd have to mess with the phase again I would guess.
I like the idea of your dash sub and am impressed with your install and design.


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## quality_sound

You can go up around 250Hz and still be non-localizable. The midbasses in my GTI (back of the door) sounded like they were in the engine compartment.


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## BowDown

Thanks guys. I'm working on getting the carPC mount/bracket fabbed up. Then a bit more glassing to the radio bezel to blend everything in. I have a **** ton more DSP now that I'm using the carPC. Hope for some good IASCA results in a month.


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## steve671

Very cool.


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## BowDown

Thanks man. Check out my other build thread for updates.


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## tyroneshoes

Looks great. Very impressive and I have that exact xtant sub (well the 2 ohm version)

Its a mtx blue thunder with a black cone.


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## Bluenote

Very nice execution on that Dash Sub! Very nice!


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## BowDown

Thanks man. Appreciate the feedback.


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## SLICKDSG

This looks great dude!!!!


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## blackknight87

ANother 19 pages down. So cool


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## BowDown

blackknight87 said:


> ANother 19 pages down. So cool


Thanks man. I should of updated this thread with the Subwoofer changes.. but I have kinda abandon this one and kept all the updates in my SQ thread. Would be awesome to consolidate them once it's all over.


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## goodstuff

Looks like you built half of it in your office at work, lol. Good use of company time. Love the kerfed wood between two printers, hilarious.


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## SoulMan76

Nice job man, I have a little sort of cubby in my dash too that comes with a little 4" center speaker on some factory Souls, I was thinking of trying to get a little 6.5" sub in there. After seeing what you did I may go ahead and do that someday, or at least see if it's doable. 

Glad to hear it gave you the results you were after.

Here's what the little area in mine looks like, I'm not even sure I could get a 6.5" in there, but it might be worth a look.


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## BowDown

Hard to tell.. but maybe a 6.5" sub would work in there. Otherwise you're in for alot of cutting. lol.


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## SoulMan76

The problem I face too, is that right under the speaker wire in the pic is actually the a/c venting, so if I couldn't get it to fit with maybe making the dash part a little higher, I wouldn't bother with it really.

Oh well, it'll be awhile before I even get a chance to mess with it, but your's has me thinking about it anyway.


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## eviling

Lol again with the dash sub? Why change it didn't you have an xtant in their? Idk but ib in a dash sub would be cool I'm game to watch this unfold.

Wish I got a chance to hear it with the last setup But something came up last minute before that show in pottstown earlier this month or was it Pottsville I always mix them up. 


Gonna have jams in my car for the first time since last Nov. Lol my projects seem to take some time 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


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## BowDown

eviling said:


> Lol again with the dash sub? Why change it didn't you have an xtant in their? Idk but ib in a dash sub would be cool I'm game to watch this unfold.
> 
> Wish I got a chance to hear it with the last setup But something came up last minute before that show in pottstown earlier this month or was it Pottsville I always mix them up.
> 
> 
> Gonna have jams in my car for the first time since last Nov. Lol my projects seem to take some time
> 
> Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


I had an xtant in there that was a bit snuffed by the small enclosure. So I swapped it to the typeR 8" which is much more at home. 

If I do IB it will be a single 15" <30Hz. Just to assist the 8.


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## eviling

BowDown said:


> I had an xtant in there that was a bit snuffed by the small enclosure. So I swapped it to the typeR 8" which is much more at home.
> 
> If I do IB it will be a single 15"


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## mmiller

Nice work!! Looking forward to hearing this car someday...


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## BowDown

mmiller said:


> Nice work!! Looking forward to hearing this car someday...


Thanks man. Not sure where in Canada you are.. but if you're on the east come down to the Syracuse Customs 1/20/12 IASCA SQC meet. You can find it in the 12v Events forum.


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## djPerfectTrip

That's pretty awesome. I wish I was that handy so I could do a stealth install in my car.


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