# Seas P18RNX/P and 27TFFNC/G pictures and initial thoughts



## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

I received my Seas tweets and mids today. I have never owned any Seas speakers and needless to say I am impressed by the build quality of them. The mids are beautifully built as are the tweeters. Here are some pictures of the mids next to the ID OEM's and the tweeters next to some dyn MD100's. Sorry if the pictures aren't the greatest, I tried my best, but lighting is terrible here.


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## snaimpally (Mar 5, 2008)

Nice! That magnet on the Seas mid looks comparable to the one on the ID OEM. I'm looking forward to hearing them.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

snaimpally said:


> Nice! That magnet on the Seas mid looks comparable to the one on the ID OEM. I'm looking forward to hearing them.


Me too


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## XpME36M3 (Jun 24, 2006)

any update on these? im thinkin between these two and the peerless exclusive. wanna hear wat u have to say..


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

XpME36M3 said:


> any update on these? im thinkin between these two and the peerless exclusive. wanna hear wat u have to say..


How bout the ER18?


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

I won't be installing them for quite a while (month or so) I need to get all my deadening products, RCA cables and fiberglass supplies here before I start. I will do a detailed review of them when they are installed. I have a huge CD collection now that snaimpally has been hunting and finding stuff online for free that I didn't know existed LOL. I'm about to start breaking these in tonight with some white noise.


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## XpME36M3 (Jun 24, 2006)

havent heard much about the ER18. My plan is for a setup like this

2way active front
2 8" substage ( IB on the rear speaker location )
HU - Eclipse 8053
Amps - xtant 404m and xtant 2200i

trying to keep budget for speakers and subs at around $400 or lower and $100 for install accessories


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## innsanes (Feb 8, 2007)

want to hear the comparison between the seas and the id oems when you get them in. thanks


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## quakerroatmeal (Aug 21, 2008)

Are the mounting depth very similar?


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

OK, I got them in and playing. I am dissapointed in the tweeter, Simply put...it is harsh. I tried it on axis and off axis and it's sibilant as heck. Wouldn't recommend them. 

I am battling a door resonance problem with the mids right now, so I can't comment on them yet.


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

i have the tweeters in home monitors, and they dont sound harsh.. id say for the money they are worth it!


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

you *must* run the tweets in! They get better after 20-30-40 hours of use.

Off axis around 10-15 degrees sounds really good for me.

Bret


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

bretti_kivi said:


> you *must* run the tweets in! They get better after 20-30-40 hours of use.
> 
> Off axis around 10-15 degrees sounds really good for me.
> 
> Bret


That seems like an awful long time to wait for tweeters to break in, but I will give them a chance. I have been doing car audio for 17 years and haven't found tweeters that changed dramatically after any amount of playtime. Maybe these will be different and I won't have to spend more money!


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

it's on here elsewhere - "never known anything like it" - try it, you might be pleasantly surprised


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

I found out why the tweeters are "harsh". I had them crossed at 2KHz 24dB/octave. They don't like that at all. Definitely stick to Seas recommended frequency range. I had to raise them to 4KHz and now they sound better, but lacking and thin. I think these are really a decent tweeter for a 3-way setup, but a 2-way with a low crossed tweeter...not gonna work.


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## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

Inclined to agree, mine are seeing 5khz @ 12 from my amp, and 3.6khz @24 from the deck,and are managable that way. Anything lower and harsh is the word. Watching the RTA while playing with the amp crossover, I could see a 2.2 khz peak that had to be eliminated. They are playing OK with my ER18's now, but I bought a set of Lotus RT25A's to replace them.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

86mr2 said:


> Inclined to agree, mine are seeing 5khz @ 12 from my amp, and 3.6khz @24 from the deck,and are managable that way. Anything lower and harsh is the word. Watching the RTA while playing with the amp crossover, I could see a 2.2 khz peak that had to be eliminated. They are playing OK with my ER18's now, but I bought a set of Lotus RT25A's to replace them.


I think I ended up with the worst combination imagineable. I bought the tweets after reading all the reviews here that they can play low, then I bought the mid after reading the reviews that they play cleanly up high. I figured with that combination I could easily cross anywhere. Now I am seeing that the mids break up higher and the tweeters break up lower, so if I cross everything near 2K I get clean mids and harsh tweeters, if I cross above 3k I get clean tweeters and muddy mids LOL. My setup is crying out for a dedicated midrange, but I don't want a 3-way setup


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## digital (Sep 12, 2008)

This mid can go up to 4k (on paper anyway), so you could still stick with 2-way.Eton 7-360 7" HEXACone Bass/Midrange


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## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

GLN305 said:


> I think I ended up with the worst combination imagineable.



On paper it does not appear to be the case. I really would not change drivers and would look at tuning instead. I would play with slopes and eq more with the woofer. 

I would not expect a higher LP to cause the mids to become muddy, unless you have reflection issues. I do notice from Zaph's site that 3rd harmonic becomes the dominant distortion product above 2.5k, but it is pretty far down. Maybe you have a resonance? The P18 is not supposed to have a breakup at all.

I think a lot of problems people see is the tweeter levels are too high. Trying to get "air" and "detail" that really is not in the recording, and often compensating for install issues. 

The neo's are not great at all off-axis. That is one of the problems with my install, they are currently way off-axis. I have accepted the compromise, and with level setting and eq (Imprint takes care of that for me) I am pretty darn happy for now. The RT25's will go more on-axis.

What does your install look like?


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

86mr2 said:


> On paper it does not appear to be the case. I really would not change drivers and would look at tuning instead. I would play with slopes and eq more with the woofer.
> 
> I would not expect a higher LP to cause the mids to become muddy, unless you have reflection issues. I do notice from Zaph's site that 3rd harmonic becomes the dominant distortion product above 2.5k, but it is pretty far down. Maybe you have a resonance? The P18 is not supposed to have a breakup at all.
> 
> ...



I understand that on paper it does not appear that way, but in a car it definitely is. I am now seeing the issue with the Seas mids, they are also not good for door installs without an enclosure. I managed to bottom the coil today on Phil Collins and I am only running 110 watts per side at 4 ohms, so 55 watts per mid approximately at 8 ohms. I also believe the mid is damaged now. This is the first time in 17 years of installing and experience with 50+ front stage combinations in my own vehicles. The tweets on axis are impossible to listen to, they are harsh and spitty. Off axis they become a little better, but not much.

Here's a link to my install:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/f9/2008-chevrolet-colorado-build-log-t45898/#post544939


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## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

I'm curious, what freq and slope do you have the mids HP at?


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

Hmm, I've run the Seas tweeter (metal version) down to around 1.8kHz with decent enough results. The only thing you really limit is output.

The biggest contributor to harshness is frequency response. This includes level balancing between the tweeter and woofer as well as the frequency response over the tweeter range, woofer range, and especially over the crossover region. You want them to blend seemlessly. What doesn't blend will stick out like a sore thumb.

There will be some break in time for any driver you run. It's not terribly long, but the parts do need to loosen up a little.

The silk version is actually the "hotter" of the two tweeters. The metal version actually has a milder top end.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

86mr2 said:


> I'm curious, what freq and slope do you have the mids HP at?


I have tried the mids at everything from 63-100 Hz range high pass 12-24db/Octave and 1.5-4kHz range Low Pass 12-24 dB/Octave. I have pretty much tried everything with less than pleasing results.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

mvw2 said:


> Hmm, I've run the Seas tweeter (metal version) down to around 1.8kHz with decent enough results. The only thing you really limit is output.
> 
> The biggest contributor to harshness is frequency response. This includes level balancing between the tweeter and woofer as well as the frequency response over the tweeter range, woofer range, and especially over the crossover region. You want them to blend seemlessly. What doesn't blend will stick out like a sore thumb.
> 
> ...


I ran white noise through the tweeters for 10 hours before installing them and I have about 30 hours of listening time on them now. 

I am very familiar with gain setting and matching as well as making everything blend, it has been a trademark of my installs for many years now. I have also competed in SQ comeptitions here in the US and in Germany and won many times. I think I may be fighting finicky speakers and a problematic truck. I am completely baffled as to how I managed to bottom the voice coil former today listening to Phil Collins at moderate volume. Maybe the volume in my doors is too much for the mids, maybe they just can't take the power. All I know is I haven't encountered something like this and spent days troubleshooting it and not found a solution.


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## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

What were you using when the coil bottomed? I'm interested in making sure I have my ER18's properly protected. I am sure I do at 80 hz and 18 db. I also do not listen all that loud. 

I have tried them at 63 but was worried about the cone movement and the rattling in the door.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

86mr2 said:


> What were you using when the coil bottomed? I'm interested in making sure I have my ER18's properly protected. I am sure I do at 80 hz and 18 db. I also do not listen all that loud.
> 
> I have tried them at 63 but was worried about the cone movement and the rattling in the door.



When the coil bottomed it was at 80 Hz and 24 dB/Octave.


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## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

Wow!


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

I would go for a different mids. they clearly dont like the door install.. 
In a good install they should play lot lower with good output.


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## ccrobbins (Aug 19, 2006)

I am running my er18's at 63/18 up to 2k no problem. I am also running the 27's down to 2k or so might be 2.5k i'll have to check and they sound great. Both are off axis and in the modified stock locations. I have about 120 watts @ 4ohm to the mids, so 60 or so @ 8ohm and 75 watts to the tweets. 


All of this is just FYI and FWIW.



GLN how are the tweets attached to your door? Did you use the lpg cups or just put them in the panel?


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

ccrobbins said:


> I am running my er18's at 63/18 up to 2k no problem. I am also running the 27's down to 2k or so might be 2.5k i'll have to check and they sound great. Both are off axis and in the modified stock locations. I have about 120 watts @ 4ohm to the mids, so 60 or so @ 8ohm and 75 watts to the tweets.
> 
> 
> All of this is just FYI and FWIW.
> ...



They aren't in my doors, I have them mounted to a piece of ABS temporarily to the A-Pillars like shown in my install log.

I was messing with them today and found that they sound a little better crossed at 3.5KHz, but they are still very bright and spitty at high volume levels. I will definitely be buying a different set of tweeters. I think I got spoiled. My last two set of tweeters were Dyn MD100's and Morel large format MT-20's.


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## ccrobbins (Aug 19, 2006)

The morel large's are really sweet. Have you had the chance to meter anything? Like an RTA. I'm just curious if your response will look like mine.


From the log it looked like they were in the doors, my bad. The good thing is those tweets wont last 5 minutes in the classifieds.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

ccrobbins said:


> The morel large's are really sweet. Have you had the chance to meter anything? Like an RTA. I'm just curious if your response will look like mine.
> 
> 
> From the log it looked like they were in the doors, my bad. The good thing is those tweets wont last 5 minutes in the classifieds.


I love the Morel tweets as well as the Dyns. Either one is a winnder in my book. 

I have RTA'ed the truck, but we were experimenting and it may or may not have been an accurate indication of anything.


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