# Clarion.. The new way to sell?



## mekelbwer (Mar 12, 2015)

The times they are a' changing...... So today I read where Clarion is pulling out of doing business with brick and mortars and going to sell only thru the internet. I guess the writing is on the wall about who is actually buying products and it certainly discounts the role of the 12 volt car audio specialist in this equation. How does those who work in the shops feel about this? Is this how the industry will devour itself and become a labor only endeavor? There is more than enough blame to go around as to who might be the "culprit" might be, but I contend it's really nobodies "fault" and this was inevitable as the internet grows ever larger it eats up whole industries and ****s out completely different versions of business models that once were. The question is Okay what now? I'd be interested to read how others feel so please feel free to chime in.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

yeah it sucks, but at the same time who the hell is buying newer clarion stuff anyway? people who are shopping on the internet anyway. on top of that, how many brick and mortar places were actually pushing clarion? i only know of one, and theyre 5 hours away from me. not even sure if they were "pushing" them too.


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

Well...it's only Clarion Corp of America...but i love the wild assumptions they state about how this is how it's gonna be with all manufacturers soon and blah blah. We'll see, but look what happened to MTX!!!


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

mekelbwer said:


> How does those who work in the shops feel about this?


What shops? In the UK car audio is dying a death and has been for many years. In my home town of Plymouth we had many car audio shops including Turnballs, which one ex-employee told me had 27 employee's. The last time I went to Turnballs, they had 3!


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## Mr12voltwires (Feb 1, 2010)

mekelbwer said:


> The times they are a' changing...... So today I read where Clarion is pulling out of doing business with brick and mortars and going to sell only thru the internet. I guess the writing is on the wall about who is actually buying products and it certainly discounts the role of the 12 volt car audio specialist in this equation. How does those who work in the shops feel about this? Is this how the industry will devour itself and become a labor only endeavor? There is more than enough blame to go around as to who might be the "culprit" might be, but I contend it's really nobodies "fault" and this was inevitable as the internet grows ever larger it eats up whole industries and ****s out completely different versions of business models that once were. The question is Okay what now? I'd be interested to read how others feel so please feel free to chime in.


Unfortunately the writing's been on the wall for a LONG time. I had a great career in the '80's and '90's working for mid/high end shops and a premier manufacturer. I have a family to support and saw price points and margins drop annually. I got out, but still follow 12V as an enthusiast.

You might also say internet sales damaged almost every brick-mortar category. If you think about where you could go 10 years ago to buy a product but now find yourself limited to just a couple locations with limited selection, or none at all, which forces you to buy from your keyboard.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Mr12voltwires said:


> and saw price points and margins drop annually.


Really? I thought the margins were fine when I looked into it. As for price, JL have just had yet another price hike on some of their more popular products ... for no apparent reason other than they can ... it would seem! 

I don't think the ability for the consumer to buy direct from the manufacturer leads to a cheaper price for the end user. I think it simply means that they cut out the middle man (car audio/hi-fi store) because most of them have gone out of business anyway.

I put it down to two things. Shrinking market and a flood of new brands. Back in the day you knew where you stood. In the UK it was Blaupunkt, Clarion, Kenwood, Sony, Pioneer maybe a few others. Nowadays there's a new brand popping up every weekend. OEM car audio have stepped up a bit. In my friends BMW X5, the system is very admirable. Same went for my brother in-laws rental Clio last weekend. Sure the bass reflex speakers are gimmicky, but it was impressive all the same. Then you have the likes of Linn, Meridian, Naim B&W coming into the game. OK it won't tame a serious enthusiast, but for the average consumer it'll do. Then you have the bragging rights of such a *'Named'* system in your car. 






And then you have things like this 







Fact is music is being consumed at a rate never seen before, but people listening habits have shifted from car audio and home audio. For me, I put that partly down to bad/poor sales/buying experiences. How many home audio demo's did i go to, where I wasn't allowed to listen to my own music, but instead was subjected to music that I wouldn't want to listen to until i'd been dead for a good number of decades. My experience of having to deal with the local car audio store, left me with much the same feeling.


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## firebirdude (Dec 24, 2009)

At least our industry has a large labor chunk to it. And as long as you've got physical locations to do the labor, their will always be a need to have at least some product on hand for those instant gratification folks (WAY more common than you think).


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

mekelbwer said:


> The times they are a' changing...... So today I read where Clarion is pulling out of doing business with brick and mortars and going to sell only thru the internet. I guess the writing is on the wall about who is actually buying products and it certainly discounts the role of the 12 volt car audio specialist in this equation. How does those who work in the shops feel about this? Is this how the industry will devour itself and become a labor only endeavor? There is more than enough blame to go around as to who might be the "culprit" might be, but I contend it's really nobodies "fault" and this was inevitable as the internet grows ever larger it eats up whole industries and ****s out completely different versions of business models that once were. The question is Okay what now? I'd be interested to read how others feel so please feel free to chime in.


A lot of this is Clarion's own fault. They've been producing a consistently mediocre product for too many years now. The brick and mortar retailers haven't been moving their products because their products were boomerangs. When customers are upset because their brand new $1000 double din headunit functions worse than a Texas Instruments graphing calculator it reflects badly on the retailer, even if it's not their fault. 

In an age where a $300 tablet can function almost flawlessly, has a 4K resolution screen, and almost no lag or latency, car audio headunits are like the autistic step children of the electronics world. Consumer tolerance for bad displays, glitchy software and laggy GUI's is at an all time low. If Clarion had made a better product, they wouldn't be having the sales issues. 

Frankly, selling strictly online is to their advantage. There won't be anyone between the customer and the product to show them how bad it is and to tell them "Let me show you this Pioneer unit."


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## dallasneon (Nov 3, 2005)

Onyx1136 said:


> A lot of this is Clarion's own fault. They've been producing a consistently mediocre product for too many years now. The brick and mortar retailers haven't been moving their products because their products were boomerangs. When customers are upset because their brand new $1000 double din headunit functions worse than a Texas Instruments graphing calculator it reflects badly on the retailer, even if it's not their fault.
> 
> In an age where a $300 tablet can function almost flawlessly, has a 4K resolution screen, and almost no lag or latency, car audio headunits are like the autistic step children of the electronics world. Consumer tolerance for bad displays, glitchy software and laggy GUI's is at an all time low. If Clarion had made a better product, they wouldn't be having the sales issues.
> 
> Frankly, selling strictly online is to their advantage. There won't be anyone between the customer and the product to show them how bad it is and to tell them "Let me show you this Pioneer unit."


Truer words have never been spoken...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

Onyx1136 said:


> A lot of this is Clarion's own fault. They've been producing a consistently mediocre product for too many years now. The brick and mortar retailers haven't been moving their products because their products were boomerangs. When customers are upset because their brand new $1000 double din headunit functions worse than a Texas Instruments graphing calculator it reflects badly on the retailer, even if it's not their fault.
> 
> In an age where a $300 tablet can function almost flawlessly, has a 4K resolution screen, and almost no lag or latency, car audio headunits are like the autistic step children of the electronics world. Consumer tolerance for bad displays, glitchy software and laggy GUI's is at an all time low. If Clarion had made a better product, they wouldn't be having the sales issues.
> 
> Frankly, selling strictly online is to their advantage. There won't be anyone between the customer and the product to show them how bad it is and to tell them "Let me show you this Pioneer unit."


So true!! This is why I ditched my double din Pioneers and went tablet and optical! I never looked back! Why would I pay a company $1200 for a unit that worked half as fast or good as my 300 tablet. Even my phone has more technology in it then their so called flagship units


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## wilkinru (Apr 25, 2016)

Feels like we'll have more consolidation in the market. I mean people are buying cars for the new "technology". No one wants to get another radio these days.

The future looks like add-ons that allow amps and subs to be hooked up. Well, that's the current status also!


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Business is great. It's changed and shifted for sure. Those of us that have moved with the times are thriving. Clarion is been irrelevant in the B&M for a long time. We have many many more vendors/manufacturers that provide better products and support than Clarion did.

I hope Clarion has fun being in the same playground as Blaupunkt :lol:.


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## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

Well, sometimes, the brick and mortar shop tried to push the stuff that they can get the most profit margin or required the most complicated install (labor charge) or just because they have an old stock that they need to get rid off...
especially if they think their customer is not well informed... which most customer are not as well informed before the internet era...
and if the customer do not know much about the market price, they will jack up the price... (which fortunately not easy to do anymore because it is so easy to find online market price now)

In fact just 3 years ago when I was doing sound dampening install at a car audio shop,...
the installer (owner) told me that the Dynaudio Esotar2 430 midrange and 110 tweeter were so overpriced and it's not worth their price, actually he say, no speaker worth that price...
in the beginning I thought... hmmm, he maybe telling the truth here...

Until half an hour later when he told me the cost he charge to install a midbass on the kick panel are... $1,800 which is more than the price of the Esotar2 midrange (or tweeter)...
That's when I realized he is trying to get as much money from the total budget I have allocated for the entire system ... so he is trying to make me buy less expensive speaker so I can have more money to pay him (installation cost)...
Later, he also said he have a customer who had a bunch of Audison Thesis amp that the customer buy himself and ask him to install but he complain the customer is so stingy when it came to installation cost then he keep repeating about how install is the most important thing compare to equipment...

I mean I totally understand that tuning and install can make lot of difference but once I hear his complain (and his reasoning),... it really wake me up that... everybody is just taking care of their own interest...,

In South East Asia, the hype was passive xover is better than active...
well because those installer in South East Asia can only get so much margin of selling active xover setup while they charge like 3 or 4 times the price of an active xover for their "secret sauce" passive xover setup...

so I actually like the idea of audio equipment manufacturer doing direct sales to customer,
and for car audio installer to focus on doing great install without bias.
This will prevent conflict of interest.

Imagine, if I am just naive customer, I would had bought that installer advice and will forget about buying an Esotar 2 110 tweeter...
Wow, I will then missed a chance to own one of the best tweeter in the world... just because someone want to get more piece of the pie (my total budget)...

I also see another trend where equipment manufacturer is making their product more user friendly so when they sell direct to customer,
the customer don't have to depend on pro installer to setup their system...
For example Zapco new upcoming Gen V DSP with RTA and auto tuning function... this is inline with direct sales or online sales strategy...


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Angrywhopper said:


> I hope Clarion has fun being in the same playground as Blaupunkt :lol:.


Regardless of the new tech products, I'm with you, I can't get the feeling of 80's brands like Clarion and Blaupunkt playing in my dad's Saab 900 turbo. And look how well Saab is doing nowadays lol. 



BMW Alpina said:


> so I actually like the idea of audio equipment manufacturer doing direct sales to customer,


But where are the benefits? There seems to be a fallacy that buying direct from the factory will negate the need for a middleman, and so the manufacturer can pass the saving onto the customer..... *really?* Obviously some haven't seen the price of the Legatia SE series for example! *The brand that must not be named* do direct sales as well, but the savings are hardly groundbreaking given the overblown nature of the prices in the first place.


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## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

captainscarlett said:


> But where are the benefits? There seems to be a fallacy that buying direct from the factory will negate the need for a middleman, and so the manufacturer can pass the saving onto the customer..... *really?* Obviously some haven't seen the price of the Legatia SE series for example! *The brand that must not be named* do direct sales as well, but the savings are hardly groundbreaking given the overblown nature of the prices in the first place.


Here are the benefit:
a. For me as customer, buying direct from factory means, everyone will get the same price buying the same item. That is what I feel more fair.
If you use middleman, the final price that you get depend on how good you are at negotiating or how good the middleman at convincing you.

This is the same as buying car at this moment,
Website like TrueCar tried to make the price (invoice price and profit and available incentive) accessible to regular customer so they won't get crazy mark up by the dealer. 

b. If everybody is doing direct sales, then the competition directly among manufacturer will drive down the price but everyone still pay the same price for the same item.

c. Even if the manufacturer don't really pass the saving, they can use that saving to finance more R&D for better product instead of competing with other manufacturer to give as much discount/commission to the middle man to push their product.

d. or the manufacturer can have more money to build a great customer support or after sales service team, because many time when you buy your equipment through middleman, and something goes wrong, they would just told you to go straight to the factory... 

so what is the advantage of paying middleman when the benefit they gave you was the rush of the negotiation process and hoping you get better deal than anyone else. (which mean you pay more for sure anyway)?
I mean long time ago brick and mortar shop use to mean lot of showroom display that you can test how it sound (although it did not represent how will it sound in your car)... but at this time, most brick and mortar do NOT stock much and most of their stock is inside sealed box and can't be tested anyway...


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Your vision of the car audio industry is so distorted that I am not even sure how to respond. :worried:

I will say this...
CAVEAT EMPTOR - As consumers we have a responsibility to know what we are getting into and to understand the value associated with specific goods and services. Failure to research and understand what it is you are paying for is not the fault of the seller.


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## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

rton20s said:


> Your vision of the car audio industry is so distorted that I am not even sure how to respond. :worried:
> 
> I will say this...
> CAVEAT EMPTOR - As consumers we have a responsibility to know what we are getting into and to understand the value associated with specific goods and services. Failure to research and understand what it is you are paying for is not the fault of the seller.


I totally agree with your Caveat Emptor,...
there is a saying fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...

but the reason why customer is paying the seller (middleman) a profit is to help the customer choose what they need...
unfortunately no seller can be totally free of their own interest...

so if we the customer have to make sure that we won't be tricked into buying something that will not suit us the best and have to do our own research,... then we don't really need a middleman and better buying direct....

I had explain in detail the benefit of buying direct,
please tell me what is the benefit of paying the middleman then...
that can outweigh the benefit of doing through research yourself and buying direct...

I am not against paying a good installer/tuner (at fair market price of course), that job is a work of art... and training and experience...

but for buying the equipment itself, 
I think customer will be better serve by buying direct as long as they
are willing to do research as your cavaet emptor suggest...

I mean, if you are a regular customer, who you trust more,
your self doing your own research online
or asking to a car audio shop about some equipment that they might not even represent while they represent competing brand?

hmmm I want to add, my vision at car audio industry might be distorted with protecting my interest as end user,
but since I am just an end user so I look it purely from my interest as end user...
but if I am a car audio shop owner, I will look it the opposite way of course and if I am a car audio shop owner, I will hate direct selling...

Buying car audio equipment at car audio shop is the same thing as buying car at dealership, if you can buy direct to manufacturer like Tesla and cut the dealership that would be better...
actually dealership provide service for car...
while car audio shop, when the audio equipment break down, they told you to ship it directly to manufacturer....
so even car dealership have advantage in that..

and I use to be car salesman just few years ago... 

so the car and audio shop should better morph/evolve more into FABRICATION Service and not selling equipment...
which I think most are doing now...

Anyway, I am not here to have long debate, this forum is titled DIY MA,.
and as a DIY and an end user this is my opinion (and my interest) and I think the market is going in that direction...
sooner or later, most of the stuff will be sold online...
I understand that it is bad for the brick and mortar shop owner,
but if that is the market (customer) prefer, and that is the direction it will go...
We can have a long debate here but it won't make a different so... I think that is it from me


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

Hate to sound snobby here, but at best i find it an uphill struggle to convince _*those not in the know*_ not to buy those Vibe speakers in favour of a pair of Morel's or Hertz. .... you know, the kind of people who boast about having 4 speakers plus the two 6x9's on the shelf for a total 720 watts of power. but not understanding that sound is measured in dB.

As has been said education is the key, but for the most part it seems to fall on deaf ears. I'm not here to say that one brand or product is more worthy of consideration over a lower end or cheaper brand, but those examples and names given (above) are from my own experiences, not from conjecture!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm probably going to regret this... but I tend to be a glutton for punishment.



BMW Alpina said:


> I totally agree with your Caveat Emptor,...
> there is a saying fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...


This is somewhat a good start. I prefer to position myself in such a way that there is less of an opportunity to be "fooled" at all. A good place to start is by doing the research necessary to find a place to provide the goods are services you need whose goal is to serve the customer, not to "fool" them. 



BMW Alpina said:


> but the reason why customer is paying the seller (middleman) a profit is to help the customer choose what they need...
> unfortunately no seller can be totally free of their own interest...


The role of the "middleman" as you call him, if he is filling his role properly, is far more than a point of sell. If it was simply that, I agree with you. If all I am getting is a point of sale, I have an Amazon Prime account. However, a good car audio shop regardless of size should be a whole lot more than a point of sale. In any business, the interest the "seller" should be the interest of the buyer. If it isn't the seller ultimately loses his buyers and will no longer be a seller.

I must also state that *THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MAKING A PROFIT*. Profit is not a bad word. Whether this is the manufacturer, the distributor or the reseller/installer. Profit is how companies stay in business and remain a source for our goods and services. 



BMW Alpina said:


> so if we the customer have to make sure that we won't be tricked into buying something that will not suit us the best and have to do our own research,... then we don't really need a middleman and better buying direct....


Your view of the relationship between those in the car audio industry and their customers is very adversarial. I have been to shops that would provide me with the same perspective. However, over time I have taken it upon myself to "caveat emptor" and seek out other options. These "middlemen" that you demonize can be an outstanding resource. Yes, even for DIYers like me. They have vastly more experience than most of us, and I have found that the good ones are more than willing to share. 



BMW Alpina said:


> I had explain in detail the benefit of buying direct,
> please tell me what is the benefit of paying the middleman then...
> that can outweigh the benefit of doing through research yourself and buying direct...


You also seem to be quite concerned about price points. And while a direct purchase model virtually guarantees the same price for everyone, it certainly doesn't guarantee the _best_ price for anyone. When you look at how the car audio industry works specifically, the "good" companies tend to focus on brick and mortar product sells with either direct sales or single source (i.e. Crutchfield) online for those that don't have a local dealer. You can almost be guaranteed a better price through your brick and mortar (additional middlemen) than you will ever see from those authorized online options. Why? Because they protect the shops that support their brands. 

And the quality brick and mortar shops will also help guide you in your decision making process. It doesn't relieve you as your responsibility as a "buyer" to educate yourself, but rather becomes a part of that education. They also provide a "buffer" for the manufacturer. The car audio industry is *small*. It can be difficult enough for a manufacturer to have to enough support staff (you know some of these brands are virtually or even literally one man shows?) to support "educated" retailers. There is no way they would or could take on the headache of dealing with all of their "uneducated" (potential) customers.



BMW Alpina said:


> I am not against paying a good installer/tuner (at fair market price of course), that job is a work of art... and training and experience...


There are quite a few guys out there that are focused more on install than product sells. I would definitely say that they are the exception and not the rule. Almost every single shop (from the big chains to the one man show) still rely on product sells to keep the doors open. It might not be a large revenue source for them either. But the product can get people in the door and ultimately lead to an install. 



BMW Alpina said:


> but for buying the equipment itself,
> I think customer will be better serve by buying direct as long as they
> are willing to do research as your cavaet emptor suggest...


As mentioned, a direct sales model can work, but it certainly isn't in the interest of everyone. And judging by most of your posts, it isn't even what you want. What you are looking for is the best price, which you think comes by elimination of the middlemen. Not the case. The best price tends to come from a manufacturer who doesn't control their product distribution chain. That is when you see product showing up on Amazon and ebay from unauthorized sellers for a fraction of retail. The direct inverse is what you see happen with a direct sells model. 



BMW Alpina said:


> I mean, if you are a regular customer, who you trust more,
> your self doing your own research online
> or asking to a car audio shop about some equipment that they might not even represent while they represent competing brand?


I consider myself moderately educated on car audio. Enough that I _could_ make all of my own purchase decisions without consulting anyone else and be completely satisfied. However, I don't. Why? Because I have resources at the end user, competitor, retailer, distributor and manufacturer level that I may seek advice from. And believe it or not, there have been many times that I have received advice that is contrary to the individuals perceived self interest? Why? Because I assume they are intelligent enough to know that providing good advice to me now, rather than trying to make a quick buck will keep me coming back as a customer. 



BMW Alpina said:


> hmmm I want to add, my vision at car audio industry might be distorted with protecting my interest as end user,
> but since I am just an end user so I look it purely from my interest as end user...
> but if I am a car audio shop owner, I will look it the opposite way of course and if I am a car audio shop owner, I will hate direct selling...


Again, in a good shop, their self interest is their customers interest. 



BMW Alpina said:


> Buying car audio equipment at car audio shop is the same thing as buying car at dealership, if you can buy direct to manufacturer like Tesla and cut the dealership that would be better...
> actually dealership provide service for car...
> while car audio shop, when the audio equipment break down, they told you to ship it directly to manufacturer....
> so even car dealership have advantage in that..


I don't necessarily agree with your blanket statements. There are plenty of instances where a local shop can address a service issue directly. In some cases without ever getting the manufacturer involved. 

There are also some manufacturer direct sells companies in car audio as well. Some better than others. Some, I don't think I'll ever do business with. The sells model does not make the company. 



BMW Alpina said:


> and I use to be car salesman just few years ago...


I considered going into car sales years back, but the wife said no way. 



BMW Alpina said:


> so the car and audio shop should better morph/evolve more into FABRICATION Service and not selling equipment...
> which I think most are doing now...


Industries of all types have had to adapt with the times. This will continue to happen. I don't see direct sells taking the place of local retailers any time soon. Also, get ready to pay a lot more for your fabrication and installation services if these companies no longer have product sells as a revenue stream. 



BMW Alpina said:


> Anyway, I am not here to have long debate, this forum is titled DIY MA,.
> and as a DIY and an end user this is my opinion (and my interest) and I think the market is going in that direction...
> sooner or later, most of the stuff will be sold online...
> I understand that it is bad for the brick and mortar shop owner,
> ...


This site is called DIY MA, and the original mission circumvented the car audio industry entirely. Things have changed. Car audio has changed. And the number of people willing and more importantly CAPABLE of DIYing a car audio install is shrinking every day.


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## BMW Alpina (Dec 5, 2012)

rton20s said:


> I'm probably going to regret this... but I tend to be a glutton for punishment.
> 
> This is somewhat a good start. I prefer to position myself in such a way that there is less of an opportunity to be "fooled" at all. A good place to start is by doing the research necessary to find a place to provide the goods are services you need whose goal is to serve the customer, not to "fool" them.
> 
> ...



Hello,
you raise a lot of good point, some I agree some I disagree,
I do appreciate your comment.

but just one think I want to be clear,

I wasn't voluntarily or even dream of becoming car salesman 
but at that time, I just return to this country, and had no job and my savings is running low and I have 2 sons and a wife I need to support here...

Your wife give you good advice though...
If possible, never work as car salesman... unless you just have to survive...
I am lucky that I am able to get out


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

Largest local audio shop is all clarion all the time. They have monstrous clarion boards followed by a focal board then a tiny pioneer board. The focal board is stocked with only the top lines powered by gladen/mosconi and the pioneer board is off in the corner and has two amps 6 decks and I believe 6 pairs of speakers and 1 sub. 

They sell clarion hand over fist in this city. And while radio is in the name you'd be hard pressed to find a guy working at their largest location that knows his head from his ass when it comes to any level of processing. 

They move a ton of clarion because their store is store is set up to do so; You can buy this clarion package for $1000 or this set of focal speakers for $1000. 

I don't b&m because it isn't really am option here. Despite a 900k population. There just doesn't seem to be a sustainable market for a little shop. 



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

From what I have seen Clarion USA and Clarion CA are two completely different beasts. It doesn't surprise me to hear that about your local shop.


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## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

That wouldn't Suprise me. Alot of companies vary big time once they cross the border 

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## geshat00 (Jun 1, 2016)

street.terror said:


> Largest local audio shop is all clarion all the time. They have monstrous clarion boards followed by a focal board then a tiny pioneer board. The focal board is stocked with only the top lines powered by gladen/mosconi and the pioneer board is off in the corner and has two amps 6 decks and I believe 6 pairs of speakers and 1 sub.
> 
> They sell clarion hand over fist in this city. And while radio is in the name you'd be hard pressed to find a guy working at their largest location that knows his head from his ass when it comes to any level of processing.
> 
> ...


Processing? If it doesn't have the word Android after it most could care less!

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

The owner of one of my local shops told me over a year ago that Clarion was on their way out, just never caught on here in the states.

The same shop owner carries a certain brand due to how much of a discount they get on the back end after they hit specific sales quaotas, they dropped another brand due to not getting as good of a price break. 

I know 25 years ago when I sold electronics when manufacturers would give additional bonuses to sell their products we would try to push people to them. 

I do still try to support B&M however some of the sales people I have talked to it's almost comical what they tell me. Often times i try to deal with the manager to hopefully get a better price and no BS.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Leaving car audio asides bit, I watched a video of the new Acura NSX a couple of days ago .


2 things caught my attention, things are so electrically and computer controlled it is simply uncomfortable just thinking about it.


Somehow they said artificially emulated the exhaust sound by making you think you are hearing the exhaust sound, but it is more like a video game.


The guy said he loved how the brake pedals felt, and that they also make you feel that you feel how the pedal feels but it's all a controlled unrealistic feeling just to make you feel better or that you have more control. Another video game VR and technology applied 

If this is the future, I would not be surprised the car audio will be full of VR or have speakers on the head rest for a better audio experience


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Viggen said:


> The owner of one of my local shops told me over a year ago that Clarion was on their way out, just never caught on here in the states.


Never caught on? Clarion has had a presence in the US since the 1950s! And many of their products are still highly sought after even today. 

While I don't agree completely with the direction that Clarion USA has gone, I would never say that they didn't catch on in the US. They are still here, but they have a revised focus. OEM for auto manufacturers is where they are focusing their energy now, with aftermarket A/V becoming a secondary market for them. Given the direction of the auto industry, it is probably the right financial move. I do with though, that they would offer their full line of car audio/video products in the US.


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## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

rton20s said:


> Never caught on? Clarion has had a presence in the US since the 1950s! And many of their products are still highly sought after even today
> 
> .


They have had a presence however not popular. Look at how it sells in Europe and other parts of the world, always remember it being one of the best brands.

If it caught on then why have they pulled out except for online via corporate site? If they were a popular good selling product one would think that at least one of the four local B&M car audio specialty shops would carry their products vs the normal brands. Probably have to go back to last century when Clarion was offered here in my home town. I have always liked their stuff as well as Denon... 

I know they have been around a long time, and make quality priducts. My old Saab's had Clarion from the factory. Probably 9 out of 10 people when they want a new deck it's Alpine, Kenwood or Pioneer, it's just what people know. The 1/10 goes with Sony or JVC with Clarion off in the distance somewhere.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Viggen said:


> They have had a presence however not popular. Look at how it sells in Europe and other parts of the world, always remember it being one of the best brands.
> 
> If it caught on then why have they pulled out except for online via corporate site? If they were a popular good selling product one would think that at least one of the four local B&M car audio specialty shops would carry their products vs the normal brands. Probably have to go back to last century when Clarion was offered here in my home town. I have always liked their stuff as well as Denon...
> 
> I know they have been around a long time, and make quality priducts. My old Saab's had Clarion from the factory. Probably 9 out of 10 people when they want a new deck it's Alpine, Kenwood or Pioneer, it's just what people know. The 1/10 goes with Sony or JVC with Clarion off in the distance somewhere.


And that has to do more with how Clarion USA has managed the brand than anything. As I already mentioned and others have confirmed, compare that to the Canadian market. Even a quick glance at the website tells much of the story. It is my opinion, that if Clarion USA had a greater focus on the aftermarket, supporting their dealers and putting out quality product they could have maintained the popularity they had "last century."

Scroll down on each to see the difference in how the two markets are supported. Also see street.terror's previous post about his experience with his local Canadian retailer. 
Clarion U.S.A | Speaker / Subwoofer / Amplifier

Clarion Canada | Speaker / Subwoofer / Amplifier


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## impulse (Jul 5, 2014)

captainscarlett said:


> What shops? In the UK car audio is dying a death and has been for many years. In my home town of Plymouth we had many car audio shops including Turnballs, which one ex-employee told me had 27 employee's. The last time I went to Turnballs, they had 3!


In my area here in the states there are no shops anymore either. All there is, is Geek Squad's installation service if you buy the over priced products at BB which is sorely lacking in options. I think the one in my town has some low end Kicker and Alpine gear, a few HU's and that's it.
Not that it matters much, very few here even have aftermarket audio systems.

I go online and it's instant every brand and model in the world at rock bottom market prices. It's almost stupid to shop in brick and mortar stores anyhow. Limited selections, dumb minimum wage employees that you can't ever find anyway and lazy shoppers that can't walk that extra 10 feet (3m to you) to put the cart in the coral.

Besides, people that can't install car audio systems don't want to install car audio systems, they use what comes with the car that they leased. All they want is Bluetooth and FM radio anyways as they wait for their free 6 month XM radio service to expire for which they will never purchase anyway.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

impulse said:


> In my area here in the states there are no shops anymore either. All there is, is Geek Squad's installation service if you buy the over priced products at BB which is sorely lacking in options. I think the one in my town has some low end Kicker and Alpine gear, a few HU's and that's it.
> Not that it matters much, very few here even have aftermarket audio systems.
> 
> I go online and it's instant every brand and model in the world at rock bottom market prices. It's almost stupid to shop in brick and mortar stores anyhow. Limited selections, dumb minimum wage employees that you can't ever find anyway and lazy shoppers that can't walk that extra 10 feet (3m to you) to put the cart in the coral.
> ...




If you just knew why Best Buy is still in business and has not failed like circuit city and the good guys, still beating earnings and going strong.


They do price match, the question for you would be: Would you prefer to buy from a local vendor at a good price From their limited inventory at a decent price, or equal?

And get the local support, 30 day return exchange or have the option for an extended warranty? 

Not only it may be better but also you help your local community stay employed longer and improve the local growth of other businesses when buying everything locally, it is worth trying to do price matching and negotiate, same with car dealers etc, many negotiate and many have competitive pricing already. 

Lowest price on line items, may be black market items, surplus unauthorized and fake limited warranties


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## trenion (Feb 23, 2017)

The internet is paving opportunity to new companies to sell their products effectively. Also, many companies are doing alterations over their branding for more profit.


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## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

impulse said:


> I go online and it's instant every brand and model in the world at rock bottom market prices. It's almost stupid to shop in brick and mortar stores anyhow.


Again, where is this happening? *Show me a pair of Morel Supremo's at a rock bottom market price*. You in the U.S. are paying through the nose for Focal and Hertz. I don't think the likes of BB is being sustained solely through sales of car audio gear, and the reasons for CC and GG's failure i'm sure are multifaceted!


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## firebirdude (Dec 24, 2009)

captainscarlett said:


> Again, where is this happening? *Show me a pair of Morel Supremo's at a rock bottom market price*. You in the U.S. are paying through the nose for Focal and Hertz. I don't think the likes of BB is being sustained solely through sales of car audio gear, and the reasons for CC and GG's failure i'm sure are multifaceted!


The cell phone department is what keeps BB afloat. lol


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

firebirdude said:


> The cell phone department is what keeps BB afloat. lol


Price matching is what has kept them going. Besides computer sales and service, appliances and accessories that cost a lot but people need and don't want to wait to get it. Instant gratification is what many millennials want.

If you check the daily special, most times that one day special is a price that can not be matched anywhere.

I know cases of some people that buy all inventory available of those specials In Some stores, with the purpose to export it to china. Electronics, computers you name it. 

A lot of the amazon stuff is junk and packed by robots, unprotected items, where the item floats inside the box and arrives broken, and subjected by Amazon warranty only not manufacturers warranty in most cases.


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## geshat00 (Jun 1, 2016)

Alrojoca said:


> Price matching is what has kept them going. Besides computer sales and service, appliances and accessories that cost a lot but people need and don't want to wait to get it. Instant gratification is what many millennials want.
> 
> If you check the daily special, most times that one day special is a price that can not be matched anywhere.
> 
> ...


Ya but with drones you'll get it just as fast

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## grinditout (Aug 2, 2008)

Rockford is probably going this way to.

If you look on there website, they are selling there own product now online.
Price this on eBay T1000X5ad then look on their site.


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