# What 'old school' heatsink is your favorite?



## envisionelec

If you were looking for an "old school" amp - would it have to look like an older brand, as well?

The reason I ask is because I am currently looking at various chassis designs for my new builds. I want to have an A/B line built like the originals (Obviously, my work wouldn't infringe on any of their designs unless I got permission...) and another line that is cutting edge: tiny, efficient _and_ accurate.

I've located the sources for many of the "old school" heatsink shapes from PPI (AM, ProMOS, etc), Soundstream, HiFonics, Alpine (V12 and prior), Crunch, Targa/Urban and LA Sound and many more. One of my other favs is US Amps (when they were USA-50HC and such). Haven't found those, yet...

What are your thoughts on bringing an old heatsink shape back to life?


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

You know me and my love of all things SS... 

But the old ProMOS heatsinks where some of the most timeless classic design... IMO..

Then again, any time you see a Linear Power, you know ...


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## sqshoestring

Linear power, the similar old coustic AMP series, old Nakamichi (pa304/etc), old SS D60/100/etc and original rubicons, some of the old 35xx alpines were cool, HK ca240/260 but the are large. I guess I like square black finned amps the best. Shorter fins would be ok, what was it the crunch pzi I think was black with shorter fins it didn't look that bad in particular for a cheap amp. Anodize fins can look really nice too like the original SS D series. I had an autotek that looked like clear coated alum and very shiny with maybe .75" fins on the whole top that was very nice looking the bottom between fins was rounded. I don't like most new flat amps with no fins, suppose some don't need them but its not attractive to me.


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## Viggen

Adcom.... nothing fancy... simple.... & worked

Every time I see Linear Power I think Bubble Gum.... one of their advertisements 20 or so years ago


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## ChrisB

Are you going for maximum heat sink effectiveness OR is there a particular look you are after?

I don't know why, but that PPI Pro MOS look or the Orion SX look happen to be two designs that I really dig the look of. The only problem is that I don't know if there is a more effective "old school" heat sink design from an engineering perspective. Sorry, but my knowledge of thermodynamics is quite lacking.:blush:


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## envisionelec

So my thought was to design/build a few "old school" style car amps and send them around for beta testing. This is not intended to be a business...but I want to see if it's even a feasible idea. After all, you guys read my lip-flappins all day - I might as well put "it" (whatever "it" is) to the test.

I have to pick a heatsink size so I can make my boards fit. This is why I am asking what you like. So far, it seems that the smooth appearance of fins or shrouds is preferred. No chrome plastic letters, no plastic end caps, no pot metal terminal blocks. Ok...you guys realize this isn't going to be cheap.


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## go_go_thrash

I really liked the white Audio Arts, a lot. 








Not that you don't remember what they looked like, loved everything about them. Footprint, quality, simplicity. They are the inspiration for a few of the projects I have done as a graduate student in a design program.


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## SONUS Car Audio

I haven't seen one of those Audio Art amps in years. That's awesome.

I liked the older Advent amplifier heat sinks, nice radius corners on the ends, had a good feel to it too, good mass.

I was always a sucker for the PPI Power Class amplifiers, chrome heat sinks, really nice, and sleek. 

Linear Power was a great retro too, I hear it that the new ones will look very much the same.


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## The Dude

Rockford BBQ amps, loved those. All black, all business.


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## jimmy2345

go_go_thrash said:


> I really liked the white Audio Arts, a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not that you don't remember what they looked like, loved everything about them. Footprint, quality, simplicity. They are the inspiration for a few of the projects I have done as a graduate student in a design program.


Great amps. The only thing I hated about them was their channel seperation could have been a lot better, and they had a warmer somewhat congested sound.


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## Anothertime

I have always like amps that were symmetrical heat-sinks, with a center flat section. In the flat section there would be either Art or a access panel for settings, accessories. Like the McIntosh, old PPI, ect. I know some people like the controls on the ends, but I still like to flush mount the amp and show it off..  just my personal openion.


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## wheelieking71

my opinion is that form follows function! (this is all just my opinion) i like an industrial look. i hate chrome with a passion. make it work good, and then give it a finishing touch. with that said, there is one question that needs to be asked. fan-cooled? or-non-fan cooled? (i get the impression you are leaning towards non-fan cooled). from an asthetic standpoint. i love the pre-REF Sound-Streams. linear power probably has one of the most efficient non-fan-cooled sinks (if it werent powder-coated). i have never understood that! its a heat-sink. why put a layer of plastic on it for insulation? plastic does not dissipate heat nearly as well as aluminum. i would have to say anodized aluminum is the only option that makes any sense to me. ADCOM was mentioned, and everybody knows i LOVE ADCOMs as much as anybody. but, im not convinced that the heat dissipation system is the best design going (yea, i said it LOL) they are my favorite from an asthetic standpoint by far, (not to mention they sound fantastic) but they have too many heat related failures. i vote SoundStream MC500!! all business, and it looks great! and, no processing inside the amp! let the amp be an amp. gain controls, and thats it. leave the processing to the processor. 

i know you mentioned "old-school", but you cannot deny the sexyness of a TRU BILLET!


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## imjustjason

wheelieking71 said:


> linear power probably has one of the most efficient non-fan-cooled sinks (if it werent powder-coated). i have never understood that! its a heat-sink. why put a layer of plastic on it for insulation? plastic does not dissipate heat nearly as well as aluminum!


That's funny. I decided I was going to change the color of a pair of Orion HCCA's back in '90. I called Orion and had a lengthy conversation about the in's and outs of a color change and they were adamant that I needed to powder coat them and not just paint them. I wound up doing neither.


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## wheelieking71

imjustjason said:


> That's funny. I decided I was going to change the color of a pair of Orion HCCA's back in '90. I called Orion and had a lengthy conversation about the in's and outs of a color change and they were adamant that I needed to powder coat them and not just paint them. I wound up doing neither.


hmmm, interesting! i wonder what thier reasoning was? i also dont believe i have ever seen an ORION that came from the factory that was powder-coated. everything i remember was anodized! i work with a pretty smart dude. he's a multifaceted engineer. i will pick his brain and see what he knows about thermal properties of coatings.


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## wheelieking71

i just got done talking with my engineer buddy, and basically the name of the game is the thinner the coating the better. there are a myriad of available coatings to keep heat in, dissipate heat faster, bla-bla-bla. but the only coating that would be remotely affordable in an application such as an amplifier where cost is a huge factor, that did not interfere with heat dissipation would be annodizing. both paint, and powder would both present thermal resistance, with powder being the worst of the 2 depending on the thickness. 

and this guy reverse engineers parts for multi-million dollar machines all day long. (and i machine them!) he knows whats up. most of these machines operate processes under severly accurate controlled environments. (sometimes over 900'c) and i have never seen powder coat specified for a coating on anything.


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## whitet

Love the old Orion SX/HCCA

Also linear power


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## imjustjason

wheelieking71 said:


> hmmm, interesting! i wonder what thier reasoning was? i also dont believe i have ever seen an ORION that came from the factory that was powder-coated. everything i remember was anodized! i work with a pretty smart dude. he's a multifaceted engineer. i will pick his brain and see what he knows about thermal properties of coatings.


Yep. Every Orion I've ever owned was anodized. That's what threw me for a loop when they kept telling me to powder coat them. That's one of the reasons I never did it. Powder coating seemed like to total wrong way. 



whitet said:


> Love the old Orion SX/HCCA



Aboslutely, all day. 


I liked the white Sansui's heat sink. Simple to the point and looked like nothing else. Well, besides the black Crutchfields, but they were sisters, and you know how family can look alike.


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## envisionelec

wheelieking71 said:


> i just got done talking with my engineer buddy, and basically the name of the game is the thinner the coating the better. there are a myriad of available coatings to keep heat in, dissipate heat faster, bla-bla-bla. but the only coating that would be remotely affordable in an application such as an amplifier where cost is a huge factor, that did not interfere with heat dissipation would be annodizing. both paint, and powder would both present thermal resistance, with powder being the worst of the 2 depending on the thickness.
> 
> and this guy reverse engineers parts for multi-million dollar machines all day long. (and i machine them!) he knows whats up. most of these machines operate processes under severly accurate controlled environments. (sometimes over 900'c) and i have never seen powder coat specified for a coating on anything.


 I've done comparative analysis of powdercoat vs anodization and the differences are quite minor. The thickness of the finish was shown to be the dominating factor for heat dissipation rather than the finish _type_.

So, yep.


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## envisionelec

imjustjason said:


> Yep. Every Orion I've ever owned was anodized. That's what threw me for a loop when they kept telling me to powder coat them. That's one of the reasons I never did it. Powder coating seemed like to total wrong way.
> 
> I liked the white Sansui's heat sink. Simple to the point and looked like nothing else. Well, besides the black Crutchfields, but they were sisters, and you know how family can look alike.


It's not wrong if you want to change the color. Color dyed anodizing is rather costly to strip unless you do it yourself. Powdercoat is far better than paint because of its controlled thickness. It was a good call on their part.

You'll laugh, but I loved the Profile "red strip" amps when they were white powdercoat. It was a great idea on their part - instantly identifiable.

EDIT: Let me qualify the paint comment. Do it yourself amplifier painting is usually rattle can - it's really easy to have wide thickness variations with the high heat types so my opinion is that Orion was trying to maximize your satisfaction by suggesting powdercoat.


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## Old Skewl

Soundstream Reference
Soundstream MC or D
Linear Power
Orion HCCA

These are my favorites, not necessarily in this order.

Anodized heatsinks always look nice.


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## Viggen

envisionelec said:


> You'll laugh, but I loved the Profile "red strip" amps when they were white powdercoat. It was a great idea on their part - instantly identifiable.


your right... I did laugh!! Ooooo the memories


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## simplicityinsound

call me silly but i really used to love the autotek stealth amps...the big slab of chrome that you can just cut a whole and mount into a surface...i really actually like that idea and wish more companies still made an amp like this


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## slowsedan01

Anodized Orion's
Soundstream Ref and Van Gogh
Furi's with the plexi bottoms
Sony ES
Old School Lanzar Opti's
ESX
The Crunch
Alpine MRD-M1000 et al from that year.


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## dodgerblue

One of my Favs are the second series Rodek .Simple yet different enough to catch your eye.


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## WOOFERNTWEETER

simplicityinsound said:


> call me silly but i really used to love the autotek stealth amps...the big slab of chrome that you can just cut a whole and mount into a surface...i really actually like that idea and wish more companies still made an amp like this


THOSE WERE THE ****!!!!!!!


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

imjustjason said:


> Yep. Every Orion I've ever owned was anodized. That's what threw me for a loop when they kept telling me to powder coat them. That's one of the reasons I never did it. Powder coating seemed like to total wrong way.
> .


I bet they told you to PC, because they would have had to tell you to completely remove the boards to strip the anodize.. 

It requires strong chems to strip it, and regular paint doesn't stick well to it.. 

Since PC is like "magic shell" for metal, it would have been the best route... Then again, you'd of had to pull the boards for PC too, so I bet is was because of the stripping... 

AFA different coatings offering different heat dissipation properties, at as low of temps as amps are typically regulated to, less than 200* usually, it's not cost effective to use "special" coatings... 

If we where talking 500+ degree, then maybe sure, but even then, that's not "hot"...


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

:cough: :cough: SoundStream :cough: :cough:


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## MikeT1982

Man this is tough! If the entire layout, including style of gain knobs, power connection design, etc could count and all my order from best onwards is as follows 

- MMATS 90's era (john henry era) HC series with the knobs for gains and xover! Nice!

- PPI gunmetal 97-98 Powerclasses! Alma's amps! Then the arts!

- US AMPS palm tree amps! with straight esoteric connects! (USA 800, VLX400!!!)

- Soundstream References! The powerblocks are insanely solid and the boards design too with the 8mm or 10mm bolts and washers to squeeze the transistors! Sweet stuff!

- SS Rubicons! (the 1st and good ones!)

- Old white CFA Crossifires! Clean sinks! Remember the CFA1000D? My first experience with class D;s, gave me a 147 out of my neons trunk with 2 kicker XPL's sealed! Not even at 1 ohm either, 2 ohms! 

- Old Phoenix Golds white with the clear windows and beautiful gold plated boards! (ZX2350, etc) 

- old Jensen amps! The blue yellow and pink sinks! (no i'm not kidding!)

I could go on and on, i'm probably forgetting some! But MMATS DHCs are my fav!


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## slowsedan01

MikeT1982 said:


> Man this is tough! If the entire layout, including style of gain knobs, power connection design, etc could count and all my order from best onwards is as follows
> 
> - MMATS 90's era (john henry era) HC series with the knobs for gains and xover! Nice!
> 
> - PPI gunmetal 97-98 Powerclasses! Alma's amps! Then the arts!
> 
> - US AMPS palm tree amps! with straight esoteric connects! (USA 800, VLX400!!!)
> 
> - Soundstream References! The powerblocks are insanely solid and the boards design too with the 8mm or 10mm bolts and washers to squeeze the transistors! Sweet stuff!
> 
> - SS Rubicons! (the 1st and good ones!)
> 
> - Old white CFA Crossifires! Clean sinks! Remember the CFA1000D? My first experience with class D;s, gave me a 147 out of my neons trunk with 2 kicker XPL's sealed! Not even at 1 ohm either, 2 ohms!
> 
> - Old Phoenix Golds white with the clear windows and beautiful gold plated boards! (ZX2350, etc)
> 
> - old Jensen amps! The blue yellow and pink sinks! (no i'm not kidding!)
> 
> I could go on and on, i'm probably forgetting some! But MMATS DHCs are my fav!


Im with you on the Jensen's. Too bad they the performance didn't match the asthetics.


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## TrickyRicky

Linear Powers no doubt. But there where some Rockfords that had the exact same heatsink. I dont know I just love the big fins and losts of them. The audio art looks pretty fancy itself.

I dont think powder coat effects the thermal dissapation. I thought the exact same thing but am pretty sure powder coat can last a whole lot longer than anodized or paint itself. Remember they do bake it in 350degree faranheit or more. There might be some experts here on powdercoat that can shine some light on the subject. Am not one of them, lol.

Plus there where quite a few amps out there that where powder coated. Soundstream refrence (old school, blue) wasn't that consider a powder coat?


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## ChrisB

I have a couple of black Orions that turned light gray due to the anodizing fading over the years. I am guessing they were exposed to direct sunlight in their former lives.


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## Bluliner

Does anyone know of an amp manufacturer that has used ceramic for the heatsink?

I ask b/c commodity prices are just going up-up & up. Aluminum isn't exactly cheap and forget about copper. Machining & casting are other variable costs, however, those typically don't change on a day-to-day basis such as commodities. 

Something like SiC could work...the cheaper the better (looks cooler IMO). I don't know what the cost difference would be though. It's something I'd look into "if" I were to design an amp without the oversight of boardroom members and micromanagers.


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## MikeT1982

That's really interesting! I guess we'd have to make sure we didn't drop the amps or anything on them LoL! Oh and yes to the other fella, the soundstream blue's were powdercoated. A nice no maintenance bulletproof finnish to go with their bulletproof internal design!


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## TrickyRicky

MikeT1982 said:


> That's really interesting! I guess we'd have to make sure we didn't drop the amps or anything on them LoL! Oh and yes to the other fella, the soundstream blue's were powdercoated. A nice no maintenance bulletproof finnish to go with their bulletproof internal design!


So since some amps use powder coating, why would it be bad to powder coat an amplifier? Am pretty sure powder coating can withstand more heat over time and keep same color (without fading).


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## truckerfte

Gimmie the ss d series sinks. Then make me a really long one with 6 channels in the 125-150w range, and a channel or two that would be "adequate" for a sub stage. Then give me inputs, outputs, and a gain pot...nothing more, this is the amp I'm looking for. 

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk


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## MikeT1982

truckerfte said:


> Then give me inputs, outputs, and a gain pot...nothing more, this is the amp I'm looking for.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk


Amen!!!

Wait power connectors and a fuse...actually heck with the fuse! LoL


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## envisionelec

To reproduce one of the original 'sinks is about $15k in tooling costs. That's a lot of heatsinks to sell. 

The original PPI AM series sink is still available from a vendor in California. At last check, it was $45/lineal foot, 6 feet minimum. 

So, basically, if it has fins and looked like it meant business - you liked it. I agree with all of them!


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

envisionelec said:


> To reproduce one of the original 'sinks is about $15k in tooling costs. That's a lot of heatsinks to sell.
> 
> The original PPI AM series sink is still available from a vendor in California. At last check, it was $45/lineal foot, 6 feet minimum.
> 
> So, basically, if it has fins and looked like it meant business - you liked it. I agree with all of them!


The AM heatsink was awesome... timeless classic and easily recognizable over the years in it's different uses.. 

And for that price, it'd be SILLY not to.... 

15k in tooling JUST TO GET STARTED I bet, and I bet that's not with a single pour... 



> So since some amps use powder coating, why would it be bad to powder coat an amplifier? Am pretty sure powder coating can withstand more heat over time and keep same color (without fading).


It wouldn't... 



> Yes, but dissipates less heat than anodizing.


At these temps, if you could show me a difference in heat dissipation, I'll print this out and eat it.. 

If you where talking the top of a piston, I'd say otherwise, but here, it doesn't matter... 

how many years have we had painted/PCed/anodized amps? how many problems has arisen from it... 

none...


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## TrickyRicky

Not just that, some powder coat their motorcylcle engines (where the heat sink fins are) and many say they havent had any overheating problems (but I guess thats different since motorcycle engines have a SUPER cooling system- the outdoor airs hitting it at 60mph). Other powder coat their engine parts in cars, and they dont have problems.

What I have read is that certain metals cannot be powdercoated because they may become brittle after the hi-temp cure (around 750degrees faranheit).


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## Bluliner

loveofmusic said:


> Where did I state powder coating was, or would be, a problem? The fact that powder coating will dissipate less heat than anodized aluminum is simply that....a fact.


What is "powder coating"? I mean, is it a category (like a martini would be) or is it a specific material (like vodka) that undergoes a process to do whatever it is supposed to do? 

If it's a category, I'm sure they can sprinkle some stuff in there to aide the thermal diffusion process. It's probably some sort of thermo plastic or some sort of phenol that has poor thermal diffusion properties by itself. Thicker the whatever it is probably correlates to becoming an insulator. How thick would it have to be? No idea...

Personally, I still say looking into silicon carbide for a 'sink would be on the to-do list. Probably can't get too creative with how it looks though as machining will drive up the cost rather quickly. Then again, simple can be better as can be seen with any a/d/s/ Power Plate amp (they're gorgeous IMO). 

****ty SiC looks cool AND is easier to machine; win-win.


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## SoulFly

my fav housings


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## TrickyRicky

OMG, no you didnt. Audiobahn, your kidding me right? They're heatsinks where cheaply made with chrome plated bling. They look more like toys than amplifiers, thats just my .02.


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## envisionelec

Bluliner said:


> What is "powder coating"? I mean, is it a category (like a martini would be) or is it a specific material (like vodka) that undergoes a process to do whatever it is supposed to do?
> 
> If it's a category, I'm sure they can sprinkle some stuff in there to aide the thermal diffusion process. It's probably some sort of thermo plastic or some sort of phenol that has poor thermal diffusion properties by itself. Thicker the whatever it is probably correlates to becoming an insulator. How thick would it have to be? No idea...
> 
> Personally, I still say looking into silicon carbide for a 'sink would be on the to-do list. Probably can't get too creative with how it looks though as machining will drive up the cost rather quickly. Then again, simple can be better as can be seen with any a/d/s/ Power Plate amp (they're gorgeous IMO).
> 
> ****ty SiC looks cool AND is easier to machine; win-win.


I can't imagine why someone would want a SiC heatsink when its thermal conductivity is 60% of T6063 Aluminum.


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## envisionelec

SoulFly said:


> my fav housings


With the exception of the Magnode-produced cast aluminum RF heatsink, those are perfect examples of _*non-heatsinks*_. If that's what you like - keep buying new amps.


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## RFVega

cajunner said:


> Old school original Rockford PUNCH, was very nice, the 150 is a delightful proportion of sense and sensibility.


x2! :thumbsup:


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## OldSkool_08

The first couple of old US AMPS heatsinks were my favs. Too bad I sold all my old school US Amps gear.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

TrickyRicky said:


> Not just that, some powder coat their motorcylcle engines (where the heat sink fins are) and many say they havent had any overheating problems (but I guess thats different since motorcycle engines have a SUPER cooling system- the outdoor airs hitting it at 60mph). Other powder coat their engine parts in cars, and they dont have problems.
> 
> What I have read is that certain metals cannot be powdercoated because they may become brittle after the hi-temp cure (around 750degrees faranheit).



It's not particularity "good" to PC forged wheels as the heating can cause the metal to lose some temper, from what I understand... 



> Personally, I still say looking into silicon carbide for a 'sink would be on the to-do list. Probably can't get too creative with how it looks though as machining will drive up the cost rather quickly. Then again, simple can be better as can be seen with any a/d/s/ Power Plate amp (they're gorgeous IMO).
> 
> ****ty SiC looks cool AND is easier to machine; win-win.


Are you talking "Alumina" rather than SiC... cause SiC is SILLY brittle, machining it is NOT "easy" .... It's the purest form of glass... 

(home and auto glass is Silicon Dioxide SiO2)

This is SiC... (with multiple layers of "other" things)










This would be "Alumina" and IT is easily machined, thought it's a ceramic and that part cost ~1000$


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## [email protected]

I was always, and still am, a fan of the old rockford and kicker amps heatsink. Just finned and black. Would be awesome to get some new amps that would link together and look good like the old kickers used to.


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## Evil Ryu

i liked the old school orion amps


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## optimaprime

old fosgate amps from 96 and my fav i use right now the ss and zr line from kicker. all fin amps just look mean.


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## Bluliner

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Are you talking "Alumina" rather than SiC... cause SiC is SILLY brittle, machining it is NOT "easy" .... It's the purest form of glass...
> 
> (home and auto glass is Silicon Dioxide SiO2)


I'm talking about this stuff:











Basically, make a tile & machine fins for increased surface area. I don't know how feasible it would be from a thermal and $$$ standpoint, just thought I'd throw this out there so we're both on the same page.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

Bluliner said:


> I'm talking about this stuff:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, make a tile & machine fins for increased surface area. I don't know how feasible it would be from a thermal and $$$ standpoint, just thought I'd throw this out there so we're both on the same page.


That's a carbon matrix of some sort, it's not SiC.. :laugh: mostly C in SiC... 

If you made a brake rotor out of SiC it'd shatter the second the brakes where applied.. That's ok, you didn't know for sure, I just had to MAKE sure there was something out there I didn't know about.. lol..

And honestly, those brakes don't really rely on their heat "dissipation" ability to do what they do best... they rely more on the fact that they can take the heat without melting down and provide and EXCELLENT friction surface.. 

They will absorb HUGE amounts of heat, without transferring it to the hub assembly as fast as metals would.. wider range of heat they will work in before breakdown...ect...


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## mitchyz250f

I love fins. I love them on motorcycle engines and I love them on amp heat sinks. The old Rockford Punch 150 looks like an old motorcycle engines with its black rough finish. They just scream ‘I have a purpose - I will never break’. They look great new and great with showing wear.

I also like the look of the Soundstream D and MC series amps. Again I like the shape, finish and color. They seem to say ‘I am sophisticated - I will give precisely what you need’. Plus when you put them side by side and they look good, like one big amp. 

I had decided to move to all SS D and MC series amps for my midranges and tweeters. The young guys at work have all seen my collection of D and MC series amps and have been completely unimpressed. Nothing but the newest stuff impresses them. About a year ago I was selling a BNIB Rubicon 405 and was packing it for shipment at work as 4 guys watched. When I took the Rubicon out of the box everyone stopped talking. I looked around and everyone was staring at it with awed expressions on the faces. Then it started, ‘how much are you selling it for, can I buy it, do I need it, and is that a good…, why don’t you get rid of your other amps and keep this one?” It is the color, and the rough finish, and again the simple shape.

I have a lot of old Orion GX amps because of their performance on sub and bass transducers but I don’t particularly like the way they look. So it is surprising that my favorite amp of all time is the old Orion HCCA 250, everytime I see one I want it. It is the color that says, 'Look at me - I am special - I am the best'.


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## Mr12voltwires

My vote goes to the a/d/s PQ-20/PH15 generation, roughly 20 years ago....


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## steuspeed

Blue anodized Soundstream and gray painted a/d/s.


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## TrickyRicky

steuspeed said:


> Blue anodized Soundstream and gray painted a/d/s.


I hope your not reffering to the blue SoundStreams (S,SX) amps. Those are not anodize, those are powder coated. Now the Linear Power blue anodized were sweet, but the plum krazy will always be my favorite.:surprised:


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## stony22

BY FAR THE BEST HEAT SINKS OUT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE H/K CA260








ANOTHER FAVORITE


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## minbari

these were always my fav. gorgeous amplifiers.


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## durwood

Heatsink should be a heatsink (KISS). The general trend of responses seem to gravitate towards what can be found here Extruded Aluminum Heatsinks from HeatSinkUSA.

The 10" looks about right, Bolt that onto a box.
http://www.heatsinkusa.com/categories/10.000"/


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## WRX2010

durwood said:


> Heatsink should be a heatsink (KISS). The general trend of responses seem to gravitate towards what can be found here Extruded Aluminum Heatsinks from HeatSinkUSA.
> 
> The 10" looks about right, Bolt that onto a box.
> 10.000" - HeatsinkUSA, LLC Store


Holy cow they make a 10" wide x 70" long heatsink. That might fit in my WRX if I always have the back seat folded down. :laugh:


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## TrickyRicky

WRX2010 said:


> Holy cow they make a 10" wide x 70" long heatsink. That might fit in my WRX if I always have the back seat folded down. :laugh:


If my calculations are right, that thing would weigh 350lbs and cost you over 200.00. Which their wesite states .5lb per inch (is that square inch???). Or is that just the lenght, if so then it would be 35lbs which is more realistic, lol. The 350lbs is wrong I thought it was per square inch.


----------



## Twisted-Woodroof

love the Adcoms.


----------



## Mteks

Alpine V12 mrv
PG Ti and ZX 
HiFonics Viii


----------



## thebigjimsho

An a/d/s/ in either dark gray or midnight blue will always make my heart skip a little.


----------



## ANT

without a doubt the art series.
ANT


----------



## PPI_GUY

Some of my favorites...

Basic black is always cool.










Angled fins are unusual.










Laid back and anodized electric red. Nice.


----------



## FartinInTheTub

I have always absolutely loved the look of the white Zapco Studio series. Beautifully powdercoated with just the right amount of shine. They were nice and thin so multiple amps would fit nicely on an amp rack. LOVE EM!


----------



## smgreen20

As I love the PG ZX/ZPA amps, one can not consider their design/looks as a heat sink. Its not, it's the case/shroud. Those PG amps used a fan that cooled "prongs/fins" bolted to the board inside the amp. I can't remember what they called it. The brochure is in the bedroom and my wife is asleep in there. Similar with the Xtant amps too.

For me, I'm a sucker for the OS LANZAR Opti's and the PPI Art series amps. Also like the MTX amps that have a smooth sink in white. Like this one in black.


----------



## Prime mova

Chrome Rockford in 1998 last model of the truly gr8 US build amps in Tempe.


----------



## ellocojorge

Orion hcca all series, as well as the ppi art series

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk


----------



## radarcontact

durwood said:


> Heatsink should be a heatsink (KISS). The general trend of responses seem to gravitate towards what can be found here Extruded Aluminum Heatsinks from HeatSinkUSA.
> 
> The 10" looks about right, Bolt that onto a box.
> http://www.heatsinkusa.com/categories/10.000"/


Make the amp 10" square with a separate 10"x10" heatsink that the consumer screws down after applying thermal to the bottom; this way you could aim the fins which ever way you want to let the heat escape. Like when "stacked" horizontally you could make the fins run north/south, etc.
(10" just an example size, obviously)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## radarcontact

(And put the controls in the top, centered, in a 4" square covered/hidden by an aluminum logo plate)




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## envisionelec

durwood said:


> Heatsink should be a heatsink (KISS). The general trend of responses seem to gravitate towards what can be found here Extruded Aluminum Heatsinks from HeatSinkUSA.
> 
> The 10" looks about right, Bolt that onto a box.
> 10.000" - HeatsinkUSA, LLC Store


None of what they sell is suitable for a car amplifier as each of these would require some form of chassis below it. This creates thermal resistance at best. At worst, it's an unstable product prone to being crushed/bent.


----------



## durwood

envisionelec said:


> None of what they sell is suitable for a car amplifier as each of these would require some form of chassis below it. This creates thermal resistance at best. At worst, it's an unstable product prone to being crushed/bent.


 Circuit board mounts to the sink, sheet metal (or aluminum) "case" to cover RCA jacks, power connectors, controls and provide mounting that screws to the heatsink. This is almost how most amps are, other then the sink forms a U shape for a bit more solid and convenient mounting for external connections, but that doesn't mean something else won't work. Didn't know crush proof was something to worry about...how would it get crushed again?:laugh:

The already available designs you can source, are they more cost effective compared to an off the shelf solution i.e.combination heatsink bolted to an enclosure/case?

EDIT: Perfect example of what I describe-not a new idea (BTW these are not mine so don't try to find where I live to come rob me)









Double EDIT: Bikinpunk didn't edit my post, he was only trying to figure out if this picture mine and hit save.


----------



## envisionelec

durwood said:


> Circuit board mounts to the sink, sheet metal (or aluminum) "case" to cover RCA jacks, power connectors, controls and provide mounting that screws to the heatsink. This is almost how most amps are, other then the sink forms a U shape for a bit more solid and convenient mounting for external connections, but that doesn't mean something else won't work. Didn't know crush proof was something to worry about...how would it get crushed again?:laugh:
> 
> The already available designs you can source, are they more cost effective compared to an off the shelf solution i.e.combination heatsink bolted to an enclosure/case?
> 
> EDIT: Perfect example of what I describe-not a new idea



Not a new idea, and not the best one, either. 

I stand by my statements. Mounting the PCB directly to the heatsink is not the panacea you want to make it out to be. 

I will not feed the troll. 
I will not feed the troll.
I will not feed the troll. :mean:


----------



## durwood

envisionelec said:


> Not a new idea, and not the best one, either.


Yep said that, and neither is entering the amp market that is already flooded with reliable, cost effective, and proven designs.



> I stand by my statements. Mounting the PCB directly to the heatsink is not the panacea you want to make it out to be.


Umm..ok, so your alternative is to float or levitate the board? It has to be attached _somewhere._ :laugh:

Goodluck to you.


----------



## AAAAAAA

Bikin, good thing you steped in,durwood really unleashed... To bad for those who missed the full UN-edited post...


----------



## rockytophigh

Ya'll talkin' heat sinks, lol.


IMAG0302 by rockytophigh, on Flickr


SS 005 by rockytophigh, on Flickr


SS 010 by rockytophigh, on Flickr


----------



## rockytophigh

Ya'll talkin' heat sinks, lol.


IMAG0302 by rockytophigh, on Flickr


SS 005 by rockytophigh, on Flickr


SS 010 by rockytophigh, on Flickr


----------



## sundownz

I really like the Linear Power heat-sinks -- I had a 2.2HV years ago and really enjoyed the look of it.


----------



## TrickyRicky

sundownz said:


> I really like the Linear Power heat-sinks -- I had a 2.2HV years ago and really enjoyed the look of it



Love the LP heatsinks and colors, they stick to the "KISS" idea.

Rockford also use use the same heatsink design but theirs was intentionally mounted upside down.


----------



## envisionelec

durwood said:


> Yep said that, and neither is entering the amp market that is already flooded with reliable, cost effective, and proven designs.


Exactly my point. It's flooded with half-assed designs, really. I'm glad you don't think there is a market for anything else. That's when I come in and change the way people use in car entertainment. My design has been reviewed by dozens of engineers and local investors and we're busy making prototypes while you blather on. Keep it up. You're not the only one to deride my work and then look foolish. Really, _really_ foolish. 

The old-school heatsink idea is merely a branched idea from the main one. Something that hobbyists can get into. 
My gut feeling is that you really want to feel important and would be floored at the opportunity to assist in the new development. However, your social immaturity breaks through. Every. Time. And keeps you from being successful because it persistently makes you look extremely arrogant. Not the way to go, buddy. Trust me - I've been there.


----------



## SUX 2BU

Old LP is nice, especially the colors they offered. That was smart marketing. As has been previously mentioned, if anyone has seen a Rockford Power 300/650/1000 with the shroud off, they look very much the same as an LP heatsink. Same with the original Power amps, the 360 and 650 bi-polar.

IMO, the most beautiful amp ever made is none other than the Alpine 3545. I'm privaledged to own 2:









I also love the elegance and grace of the Alpine 3523/3525/3539 models. The 3539 is a favorite of mine. Where else can you find a 150x2 RMS @ 4 ohm class A/B amp in a 12x8 footprint? I'd load some pics of the 3 that I own if cardomain wasn't being so crappy right now


----------



## sundownz

envisionelec said:


> Exactly my point. It's flooded with half-assed designs, really. I'm glad you don't think there is a market for anything else. That's when I come in and change the way people use in car entertainment. My design has been reviewed by dozens of engineers and local investors and we're busy making prototypes


I recall something about this from a while back -- so it's going well then ? Good to hear !


----------



## ChrisB

I'm kind of going back on my initial thoughts. If this is a new revolutionary amplifier design, I think it should have a modern heatsink to go with it. I'd even embrace the idea of using quiet cooling fans. Then again, I'm getting tired of the retro look along with seeing "old school" everywhere, so I may be a bit biased.


----------



## durwood

envisionelec said:


> Exactly my point. It's flooded with half-assed designs, really. I'm glad you don't think there is a market for anything else. That's when I come in and change the way people use in car entertainment. My design has been reviewed by dozens of engineers and local investors and we're busy making prototypes while you blather on. Keep it up. You're not the only one to deride my work and then look foolish. Really, _really_ foolish.


 Where did I deride your work again? Half-assed designs? I think you have been hanging out with marketing folks too long. No it's called stagnant designs, only real innovation is in the full-range classD or class h/g area. Zapco has been using a design from the 70's as one example, now it can be found all over. But, this was a thread about heatsinks, which are not as important if pursuing a good trend and concept. I recall years ago you had an idea for small, powerful, efficient= good idea. Let's see what you got already and stop worrying about cosmetics. Form follows function.



> My gut feeling is that you really want to feel important and would be floored at the opportunity to assist in the new development. However, your social immaturity breaks through. Every. Time. And keeps you from being successful because it persistently makes you look extremely arrogant. Not the way to go, buddy. Trust me - I've been there.


Still there it seems.


----------



## envisionelec

ChrisB said:


> I'm kind of going back on my initial thoughts. If this is a new revolutionary amplifier design, I think it should have a modern heatsink to go with it. I'd even embrace the idea of using quiet cooling fans. Then again, I'm getting tired of the retro look along with seeing "old school" everywhere, so I may be a bit biased.


Like I said in my last post, the "old school" amp design is NOT the new one - but a branch-off. There is a good chance that we'll do something along those lines - but when? Don't know. It's not a top priority these days.

The new amp design is nothing like anything that has ever been done and won't look old school at all. I can't even talk about the specifics of it anymore - it's that serious. But I can tell you that every single person I've discussed the idea with - technical or not - has been interested in it. And to get a layperson interested in car audio with just one sentence is something this market desperately needs.

This thread is meant to stimulate discussion about what people find attractive.


----------



## envisionelec

durwood said:


> _*Where did I deride your work*_ again? Half-assed designs? I think you have been hanging out with marketing folks too long. No it's called stagnant designs, only real innovation is in the full-range classD or class h/g area. Zapco has been using a design from the 70's as one example, now it can be found all over.


Here: "and *neither is entering the amp market* that is already flooded with reliable, cost effective, and proven designs"

Half fast. Yes. There is a common thread among "high quality" amp designs that gets copied over and over and....and ends up making an amp sound like poo. The fixes aren't simple nor cheap and barely understood - and that's why they're rarely implemented.

You haven't seen innovation yet.


----------



## durwood

envisionelec said:


> Here: "and *neither is entering the amp market* that is already flooded with reliable, cost effective, and proven designs"
> 
> Half fast. Yes. There is a common thread among "high quality" amp designs that gets copied over and over and....and ends up making an amp sound like poo. The fixes aren't simple nor cheap and barely understood - and that's why they're rarely implemented.
> 
> You haven't seen innovation yet.


I was going to say don't let me down, but the weak link in an audio system is not the amp unless you are clipping to the point it is audible. High quality only really means high reliability, any other version is merely part of a belief, or a failed design that did not live up to required specs (electrical or audible). I am still looking forward to seeing what will be so great. Amplifiers that double as seat warmers? Kidding.:laugh: OEMs need to start considering better speaker placement and other radical concepts that actually could make bigger improvements.

Warning you about entering a market flooded with designs is not attacking your work. You may have a spectacular idea, but if the market doesn't want it, and you can't sell it...well I don't need to explain any further.


----------



## TrickyRicky

ChrisB said:


> I'm kind of going back on my initial thoughts. If this is a new revolutionary amplifier design, I think it should have a modern heatsink to go with it. I'd even embrace the idea of using quiet cooling fans. Then again, I'm getting tired of the retro look along with seeing "old school" everywhere, so I may be a bit biased.


"Old School!!!!", lol.

I went to a local pawn shop today and saw a white phoenix gold sapphire 3.0x, it has a 149.95 tag but sales person told me right away "Its 75.00 not 149", I looked at the tag and it was put up for sale in 2006 so i told the guy "man you've been having this amplifier for sale for over 5 years, let me have it for 50". He didnt agree, I sure as hell am not paying a single dime over 50 bucks for a 300watt amplifier......... atleast not anymore lol.


----------



## envisionelec

durwood said:


> I was going to say don't let me down, but the weak link in an audio system is not the amp unless you are clipping to the point it is audible. High quality only really means high reliability, any other version is merely part of a belief, or a failed design that did not live up to required specs (electrical or audible). I am still looking forward to seeing what will be so great. Amplifiers that double as seat warmers? Kidding.:laugh: OEMs need to start considering better speaker placement and other radical concepts that actually could make bigger improvements.
> 
> Warning you about entering a market flooded with designs is not attacking your work. You may have a spectacular idea, but if the market doesn't want it, and you can't sell it...well I don't need to explain any further.



The relationship with the power supply is something that cannot be ignored. I spent 15 minutes doing an A/B between an Alpine 3541 from 1995 and a Lanzar Opti 150 from 1997. The Lanzar would, in most circles, be the better amp and I would have agreed from a design standpoint. But the Alpine sounded better at all levels below clipping. Less "compressed". And this was on a single, cheap, Radio Shack Minimus 7, 8 ohm test speaker. Determined to find out why, I spent a few minutes with my test gear. 

I found that while the amp is playing, the power supply noise was so bad in the Lanzar, that it actually caused the preamp op-amps to go into oscillation. Guess what - this doesn't show up as THD in a regular 1kHz test. But it was audible - which prompted me to investigate it. It would likely show up in a TIMD test, but I didn't have time to investigate that. I simply looked at the injection on the preamp rails and saw subharmonic oscillations triggered by the PS ripple. 

I design power supplies as part of my engineering business. It is my job to mitigate as many effects of noise as possible to ensure a design's competence. My knowledge of the interaction between the PS and the amplifier exceeds that of most people in the business simply because I deal with it on a regular basis. I can measure it - and I can hear it. It's nice to know these types of things are indeed measurable. As usual - you have to know _*what*_ to measure.

The market didn't want the iPhone, amiright? It's that revolutionary. It's hard to keep it under wraps but I must. I'm frankly blown away that another company hasn't done it already.


----------



## envisionelec

sundownz said:


> I recall something about this from a while back -- so it's going well then ? Good to hear !


Yep - it's a much larger dream than the 200W amp in a 4" square block only 2" thick. 6 of those modules will fit into the base unit of the design I'm talking about. I can talk all day about that part, but I can't divulge the rest without an NDA. 

I let it ride for a little while because I thought some other companies would have jumped on the idea. Some did - but not nearly as thoroughly as I have proposed. I spent the past year developing something else that no one else in the world (dozens have attempted, so I am told) has managed to accomplish and already had a very large market _begging for it_. I just happened to be absolutely intent on making it happen. It goes on sale next month: 

World's First Replacement AKAI MPC2000 LCD Screen - YouTube

I have many other great ideas like this. But I have to pare it down to the one or two that stand a very probably chance of making real income.

Let me clarify myself a little - the design I am working on is not a revolutionary amp design. It's really no different than the micro sized amps you see everywhere which is part of the reason I had to stop work so I could ensure I wasn't treading into a patented design by mistake (I wasn't). The revolution is within the use of the amplifier and how it relates to the end user. Think of your most frustrating problem with car audio integration today - and that is what we intend to address head-on. You could virtually answer it yourself - but then we throw in an extra, incredibly relevant component that makes the technology a best-choice for today's customer.

We _are_ accepting invitations from interested parties. I'd personally love to hear from you.


----------



## sundownz

envisionelec said:


> Yep - it's a much larger dream than the 200W amp in a 4" square block only 2" thick. 6 of those modules will fit into the base unit of the design I'm talking about. I can talk all day about that part, but I can't divulge the rest without an NDA.
> 
> I let it ride for a little while because I thought some other companies would have jumped on the idea. Some did - but not nearly as thoroughly as I have proposed. I spent the past year developing something else that no one else in the world (dozens have attempted, so I am told) has managed to accomplish and already had a very large market _begging for it_. I just happened to be absolutely intent on making it happen. It goes on sale next month:
> 
> World's First Replacement AKAI MPC2000 LCD Screen - YouTube
> 
> I have many other great ideas like this. But I have to pare it down to the one or two that stand a very probably chance of making real income.
> 
> Let me clarify myself a little - the design I am working on is not a revolutionary amp design. It's really no different than the micro sized amps you see everywhere which is part of the reason I had to stop work so I could ensure I wasn't treading into a patented design by mistake (I wasn't). The revolution is within the use of the amplifier and how it relates to the end user. Think of your most frustrating problem with car audio integration today - and that is what we intend to address head-on. You could virtually answer it yourself - but then we throw in an extra, incredibly relevant component that makes the technology a best-choice for today's customer.
> 
> We _are_ accepting invitations from interested parties. I'd personally love to hear from you.


I've been keeping your work in mind -- I am working on some things over here at Sundown financially... if it goes through I'd be looking for some more unique and revolutionary things to approach.

Sounds promising, keep it up!


----------



## envisionelec

sundownz said:


> I've been keeping your work in mind -- I am working on some things over here at Sundown financially... if it goes through I'd be looking for some more unique and revolutionary things to approach.
> 
> Sounds promising, keep it up!


Thank you, Jacob. We want to have input from folks in the industry as consultants that can help us network and gain additional opportunities. You're welcome to PM me for my personal contact info, if you wish.


----------



## AAAAAAA

looking forward to it


----------



## Linear Power

durwood said:


>


Now this is what I call perfect design. Looks strong and classic.


----------



## The Baron Groog

rockytophigh said:


> IMAG0302 by rockytophigh


I love this one^, however I'd have to say on a practicle note the lower the entire amp profile the better; I'd love to say only SQ and build quality factor in my purchases, however we all have to factor in fitting the amps to the car. I have 4x Genesis Series 3 in my car and have had to lose about 4-5" from the depth in my boot to accomodate them.

Other designs that I like are the Genesis Series 3, old A/D/S slabs, US Amps, Old Orion.

I'd prefer a symetrical design, with all terminals on one side so amps can be mounted together without spacers and all cabling on one edge.

I don't know if anyone ever saw the Xetec amps, they were all square and could have a central control cover/logo rotated to suit install:
P 03z Xetec Gravity 8g 1000 Amplifier Side View - Car Audio Pictures 189 another favourite.


----------



## The Baron Groog

envisionelec said:


> Yep - it's a much larger dream than the 200W amp in a 4" square block only 2" thick. 6 of those modules will fit into the base unit of the design I'm talking about. I can talk all day about that part, but I can't divulge the rest without an NDA.


I'd like to see a modular approach like this, if you could make one amp link directly into the next, taking signal and power from the previous it would be great from an install point of view, could give nice clean lines. If the amps were able to do some processing, even just crossovers LP/BP/HP, too you'd be onto a real winner IMO


----------



## JayBee

It's a relatively newer design, but i reall liked the Rockford turtle shell designs. They made for a nice clean install.


----------



## envisionelec

The Baron Groog said:


> I'd like to see a modular approach like this, if you could make one amp link directly into the next, taking signal and power from the previous it would be great from an install point of view, could give nice clean lines. If the amps were able to do some processing, even just crossovers LP/BP/HP, too you'd be onto a real winner IMO


That's exactly what it does. I've got a few ideas and drawings. One is a more conventional amp setup with removable end caps and buss bars. The top plates can be replaced with one big cover. Gone would be the days of mismatched "sink links". 

The other is less conventional, with a single unit that holds multiple channel 'cards'.


----------



## SUX 2BU

Would it be anything like the Carver modular amp system from the late 80s/early 90s?


----------



## envisionelec

SUX 2BU said:


> Would it be anything like the Carver modular amp system from the late 80s/early 90s?


I'm not sure what you're referring to. Was this car audio? I don't remember anything Carver that was modular.

Are you thinking of Crunch with their modular signal processing drawers? Then, no - it is nothing like that.


----------



## The Baron Groog

envisionelec said:


> That's exactly what it does. I've got a few ideas and drawings. One is a more conventional amp setup with removable end caps and buss bars. The top plates can be replaced with one big cover. Gone would be the days of mismatched "sink links".
> 
> The other is less conventional, with a single unit that holds multiple channel 'cards'.


Look forward to seeing some!


----------



## envisionelec

The Baron Groog said:


> Look forward to seeing some!


I wish I could. Unfortunately, I can't bring pictures to public. Just imagine it. We'll have a proof of concept out by summer.


----------



## AKheathen

PPI_GUY said:


> Some of my favorites...
> 
> Basic black is always cool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angled fins are unusual.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laid back and anodized electric red. Nice.


lol, i recently pulled one of those terminator 225's out of the cabinet it's been sitting in for a decade in my garage, along with some old poineer gm amps. i remember posting in a thread just like this this summer....hmm..... anywho, i might take a little guff for this, but i'm going to look at this as i did in the 90's, back when i was closer to what the masses might see audio as, though it's hard to say, since i've been in electronics since i was about 12..... anyways, going back to there- thin heat-sink fins, no matter how you purty them up, the ones like linear power, alphasonic, etc uses, just give off a cheap/chinsey vibe when you look at them. i, and most audiophiles and enthusiasts alike, know better, but that is what she speaks. what really catches the eye, is more hefty, durable "piece of heavy equipment" looking case. some examples are- kicker zr.sx.dx milled fins, even the non milled versions, but the milled is way nicer looking. the first directed d-class amps form like 99-'01, rf waffle amps, even the ss amps pulled it off, just barely. if it looks like i can bend the corner of a heatsink with my thumb, well, you know. there are others, that are fin-less, or appear that way, especially the ppi jelly-bean amps, which actually really caught my dilating eye at first glance, oh, and i absolutely can't forget the infamous pg ms (or mps, as i have) amps. first thing i did to that was make a plexi bottom, then argue with myself on which side looks better to mount visible. imo, an amp is a piece of equipment, a goody-power tool,, and should look manly....... 
now, on to the sink-linking idea..... waht really gets to me is end caps that will be lost well over 90% of the time, leaving a much less attractive looking amp, especially with rf amps, and sink-links that are near impossible to find, save for someone who wants to rape you on the last remaining ones you can find for that specific sink, since the rest were either tossed or lost. what i do like, is when the case has a bit of an over-hang, though it borders cheap looking, having the end plates recessed. one idea i came up with just now, is to have the connections be made to terminals at the edge of the ocver-hang, basically, if you flipped it, it would almost look like what you see under the cover plate(that always gets lost) of a rf amp from a few years back, before the more recent shiny black case look. kind of what you see with the fuse location. allow the power connections in the center of that side, but the cables go directly sideways, so you can either rout them out, or down, if you rack-mount a set. with linking amos idea, you could have buss-bars, or even make it so jumpers can just be used and made by the end user/installer. 
now, sink-linking. i completely agree that most sink-links only look decent at like 15 feet away, if you do a good job, and are hard to come by in no time. now think about your idea for the one-peice linking cover....... what is going to happen to it, and how hard is it going to be to find one in a couple years? what about if you want to split it back up? where are you going to find the individual covers that disappeared? it's a nice idea as an option, i guess i just get tired of trying to peice things together later as a collector, lol. i like when you can just butt them together as-is, with no cosmetic specific parts to loose. hidden linking plates that are not seen would be something that i could build from scratch, and simply mounting end-to end flush would be good as well, just an opinion of mine. i would like to see that you could unbolt the feet, and throw in a peice of metal strap and be linked.
the modualr is an idea that i would also like to see make it this time around. what was referred to was a rare setup, much like you describbed, with the modules to build your own. if i had the funds, one of the first things i would bring back (and they are actually working on it as we speak) is the heathkit projects. if you could make an affordable modular system, with individual channel cards, processing cards, etc, and the cases, then having it take off in the market can be a great thing. i have tons of ideas on this, and there is huge potential to build anything from a 4x50, to xxxxwatt mono all from the same parts/case, etc


----------



## envisionelec

AKheathen said:


> lol, i recently pulled one of those terminator 225's out of the cabinet it's been sitting in for a decade in my garage, along with some old poineer gm amps. i remember posting in a thread just like this this summer....hmm..... anywho, i might take a little guff for this, but i'm going to look at this as i did in the 90's, back when i was closer to what the masses might see audio as, though it's hard to say, since i've been in electronics since i was about 12..... anyways, going back to there- thin heat-sink fins, no matter how you purty them up, the ones like linear power, alphasonic, etc uses, just give off a cheap/chinsey vibe when you look at them. i, and most audiophiles and enthusiasts alike, know better, but that is what she speaks. what really catches the eye, is more hefty, durable "piece of heavy equipment" looking case. some examples are- kicker zr.sx.dx milled fins, even the non milled versions, but the milled is way nicer looking. the first directed d-class amps form like 99-'01, rf waffle amps, even the ss amps pulled it off, just barely. if it looks like i can bend the corner of a heatsink with my thumb, well, you know. there are others, that are fin-less, or appear that way, especially the ppi jelly-bean amps, which actually really caught my dilating eye at first glance, oh, and i absolutely can't forget the infamous pg ms (or mps, as i have) amps. first thing i did to that was make a plexi bottom, then argue with myself on which side looks better to mount visible. imo, an amp is a piece of equipment, a goody-power tool,, and should look manly.......
> now, on to the sink-linking idea..... waht really gets to me is end caps that will be lost well over 90% of the time, leaving a much less attractive looking amp.
> 
> The modualr is an idea that i would also like to see make it this time around. what was referred to was a rare setup, much like you describbed, with the modules to build your own. if i had the funds, one of the first things i would bring back (and they are actually working on it as we speak) is the heathkit projects. if you could make an affordable modular system, with individual channel cards, processing cards, etc, and the cases, then having it take off in the market can be a great thing. i have tons of ideas on this, and there is huge potential to build anything from a 4x50, to xxxxwatt mono all from the same parts/case, etc


That's the case with my amp design. There are no end caps to lose, no removable hardware and you can't lose the power connector, because it's connected to the PCB. Even if you damage the connector, your friendly machine shop can make a new one for you. Imagine that - a company that gives you dimensioned drawings to make your customization work for you. Fins are good for heat dissipation, but amps don't need fins - they just need to be built to dissipate heat.

I can't say that I'd sell it as a DIY kit - there is a lot of risk involved with that. People aren't willing to put up with the kit models (which is why Heathkit failed and will probably fail again) because it requires patience and common sense. These are two things that most people these days don't have - or don't have time to learn. 

My amp has 12, 100W modules that can be paralleled - or used as 100W x 12. Or anything in between. I developed and documented this idea many years ago. I'm building a proof of concept this year so people can eyeball it. We might even let some diehards beta-test it.


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## ellocojorge

envisionelec said:


> That's the case with my amp design. There are no end caps to lose, no removable hardware and you can't lose the power connector, because it's connected to the PCB. Even if you damage the connector, your friendly machine shop can make a new one for you. Imagine that - a company that gives you dimensioned drawings to make your customization work for you. Fins are good for heat dissipation, but amps don't need fins - they just need to be built to dissipate heat.
> 
> I can't say that I'd sell it as a DIY kit - there is a lot of risk involved with that. People aren't willing to put up with the kit models (which is why Heathkit failed and will probably fail again) because it requires patience and common sense. These are two things that most people these days don't have - or don't have time to learn.
> 
> My amp has 12, 100W modules that can be paralleled - or used as 100W x 12. Or anything in between. I developed and documented this idea many years ago. I'm building a proof of concept this year so people can eyeball it. We might even let some diehards beta-test it.


And what would be a target price range

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk


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## envisionelec

ellocojorge said:


> And what would be a target price range
> 
> Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk


Man, we're still in development. Target prices come out when we figure out how much it costs to make it. LOL.


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## The Baron Groog

envisionelec said:


> That's the case with my amp design. There are no end caps to lose, no removable hardware and you can't lose the power connector, because it's connected to the PCB. Even if you damage the connector, your friendly machine shop can make a new one for you. Imagine that - a company that gives you dimensioned drawings to make your customization work for you. Fins are good for heat dissipation, but amps don't need fins - they just need to be built to dissipate heat.


Excellent idea. 



envisionelec said:


> I can't say that I'd sell it as a DIY kit - there is a lot of risk involved with that. People aren't willing to put up with the kit models (which is why Heathkit failed and will probably fail again) because it requires patience and common sense. These are two things that most people these days don't have - or don't have time to learn.


Yup, work in retail and you'll quickly realise the average (car audio) consumer has less between his ears then you have between your toes



envisionelec said:


> My amp has 12, 100W modules that can be paralleled - or used as 100W x 12. Or anything in between. I developed and documented this idea many years ago. I'm building a proof of concept this year so people can eyeball it. We might even let some diehards beta-test it.


I'll PM my mailing address


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## raulgz

> If you were looking for an "old school" amp - would it have to look like an older brand, as well?


-I like very much the design and the great work of this heatsinks like RF BBQ (1996), RF Punch (1992). 
-Don´t like the desing but makes great work for heat dissipation H/K CA260, Sinfoni Dessiderio (New School).


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## JayinMI

I've always loved extruded designs. My favorite for years had been the Sony XM like from the early 90's (XM-4040, XM-10020). I wish they had a higher power "sub" amp version. I'm contemplating picking up another 10020 and swapping the guts out of something with more balls so all of my amps will match.










Jay


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## OLDSCHOOLAUDIONUT

To me a traditional "oldschool" heatsink looks like a Orion,PPI,linear power,zapco,phoenix gold,audio art.Depends how "oldschool" or retro you are talking or or as oldschool as a PPI ART SERIES or ESOTERIC that a smoother sink?Or a combination half breed like a P.G. outlaw or route 66?throwin some out there..
Thanks!


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## [email protected]

My favorite FINNED heatsink designs: 
Original KICKER amps #1 
Soundstream #2 
Phoenix Gold MP/MPS series #3 
MTX Blue Thunder #4 

My favorite NON-FINNED heatsink designs: 
PPI Art Series (all time favorite amp design) 
Phoenix Gold ZPA 0.5 
Original Xtant Designs

McIntosh because they fit in to both of the above categories and are just pure sex. They need to be metered of course... 

As soon as the internal heat producing components are attached to the outer case where it can transfer heat it becomes a heatsink.. This of course whether it has fins or not.


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## marvnmars

looks standpoint, the monolithic is just plain sexy, the linear and 1st gen punch had a great look/performance, the h/k ca-260 was too almost too big, but it looked soo mean. real world today, the jl hd, alpine pdx, and massive n series ampsare imo the easiest to mount stack, conserve space, and still sound decent. it is no secret that you can get great power out of a class d for sub use, however imo class a/b is better for mids/highs. a/b needs more room to breath (ie... cooling) and is not as easy to tuck away out of sight for a stealth system or even display with out some type of cooling aid.
in a perfect wold i would pay $300 for a 4 chan 4ohm amp with built in active crossover and processing section that will match any sources line level with out adjustment and $300 for a similar sub amp that will work down to a 2 or 1 ohm load, that are stackable and/or can be linked end to end, all while requiring a power wire no larger then 4 ga with a built in extra 4 ga. connection on each amp to eliminate the need for distro blocks.. this is my world view and no one elses.


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## adamtwo4

Definitely Soundstream. Every time I see those blue fins, with all the connections on one side, I can't help but think "Classy".


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## Vanlan

adamtwo4 said:


> Definitely Soundstream. Every time I see those blue fins, with all the connections on one side, I can't help but think "Classy".


I don't know a ton about os SS, but i've seen some D100's and D200's and I love the looks. just very functional, clean, and simple.


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## Dubstep

my fav's in order:

Orion NT100-200 & XTR100-200
Phoenix Gold ZPA .3 .5
Esoteric Audio E7 series & DA D7's
Adcom
2100 HCCA
2250 Beast
275r
Phaze Linear Mod amps
US Amps


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## WhiteLX

Zapco studio, soundstream reference/rubicon, ppi art and power class, Phoenix gold m, ms, and original sapphire and old sony gold amps (es and non es)


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## 11.50fox

WHITE ZAPCO STUDIOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mosconiac

These make me weak in the knees...


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## Old Skewl

mosconiac said:


> These make me weak in the knees...


*That is too many MC300s for one person to have. You should definitely sell one to me!*


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## TrickyRicky

The new and improved Linear Power heatsinks look pretty much bullet-proof. Just look how much thicker the heatsink got (even the mounting feet, extended 1/8 each side and thicken by 1/16). No more broken mounting feet or bent fins.

The fins also were made thicker.










Old/Original heatsink below just to give you an idea of how much thicker the new heatsink got.











Contact Ray/TIPS for more info.


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## envisionelec

TrickyRicky said:


> The new and improved Linear Power heatsinks look pretty much bullet-proof.


Wow. Those are beefy. I like the massive heat spreader.


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## envisionelec

11.50fox said:


> WHITE ZAPCO STUDIOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I just repaired a Studio 300X. Very nice, powerful amplifier.


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## Got-Four-Eights

go_go_thrash said:


> I really liked the white Audio Arts, a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not that you don't remember what they looked like, loved everything about them. Footprint, quality, simplicity. They are the inspiration for a few of the projects I have done as a graduate student in a design program.


One of my favorites also.. I like the gold bar on the 200MS better.. there are some 100HC that also have the same look.


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## TrickyRicky

envisionelec said:


> Wow. Those are beefy. I like the massive heat spreader.


Yep, it reminds me of my Bazooka EL1500 which has a very thick aluminum heatsink. Got it for 18bucks dont know if I should try to sell it for scrap metal because the heatsink has the same "massive heat spreader" as the Linear Power.

AM NOT SAYING their the exact same, but SIMILAR. Just to keep things clear.


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## 11.50fox

2nd gen us amps
and zapco studio


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## SACRAMANIAC916

Linear Power said:


> Now this is what I call perfect design. Looks strong and classic.


who owns these amps! I need to know!


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## SaturnSL1

The design that always struck the right chords with me was the simple square fin designs. Amps that look like you're supposed to grill with them lol


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## MikeT1982

You probably could grill on a Soundstream Class A 3.0 or 6.0 driving subs at they're insanely low impedance! I think the thermal rollback according to the specs shut the amp off at 203°F. I think beef is fully cooked around 160°F :-D


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## Oldskull

Unknown amp, but cool fins. I know... old thread, but maybe I can find someone with info on this lil amp.


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