# Critical Mass?



## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Is Critical Mass gear worth their exuberant prices. Are they that much better than lets say, Macintosh, TRU, Brax, Dynaudio, Morel, etc.? They want $12000-$15000 for an amp and $3000 for a woofer, that they claim is the best ever made! What the scoop with Critical Mass?


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

Do a search, there is at least 1 thread that goes into depth about CM, you will get both sides in there. But search!!!


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Look at the RCA connectors on that $14,000 amp.


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

They look pretty cheap to me! At least not like I'd picture on a $14000 amp!!!!


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## s4turn (Jun 17, 2009)

hmm I've always wondered about this brand as well, never heard or seen one in my life, only on the net


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Here's a good link with an extensive Critical Mass conversation! http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...pared-other-high-end-speaker-company-ect.html


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## s4turn (Jun 17, 2009)

I think i just wasted a hour of my life on a flame war 

cheers for the link though


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

I just sold my 3000$ UL12 for 480.... 

I don't think anyone has ever actually PAID full price, at least, nobody that will admit it.. 

I didn't pay full price..


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

I personally think Critical Mass products should be sold by these folks!! Mother of all Subwoofers - $145,000.00 : KaleCoAuto, Hard to find automotive items! :laugh4::laugh4:


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## brownmoses (Jul 23, 2008)

my brother used to be a dealer a few years back. ive messed with a bunch of older models. they are nice speakers, but certainly not worth the price.


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## matthewo (Jan 31, 2008)

i have a critical mass ul12, its a great sub. for the price i paid its well worth it. i would go out on a limb and say its what makes the company stand out. One of the only Neo subs that handles a lot of power, sounds good, and weighs 16 lbs.

their amps are nothing special and at best compairable to a mid priced amp.

i cannot talk about the rest of their speakers, but look OK, not worth what their asking. and im sure you could buy better for 1/10th of the price.

how about their $250,000 car surround sound setup. sell 1 of them and they are set... i think they work on the idea of making money in small quanties rather than volume. i cannot hate, all they have to do is get a few people to buy their amps and they easly make a bunch of money.


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

matthewo said:


> How about their $250,000 car surround sound setup. sell 1 of them and they are set... i think they work on the idea of making money in small quanties rather than volume. i cannot hate, all they have to do is get a few people to buy their amps and they easly make a bunch of money.


Who ever is dumb enough to spend $250000/+ for speakers (Critical MASS ESL System) is a dumb ass! It would be one thing if you could throw those in your ride and win every SQ show you'll ever enter, but has that set up ever won any major SQ show, or any show, for that matter, besides showing how stupid you are for paying that much. I guess their great for people who think price=quality and get off on bragging!!


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## pika_ (Feb 18, 2007)

bigdaddy'76 said:


> It would be one thing if you could throw those in your ride and win every SQ show you'll ever enter


seriously?


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## matthewo (Jan 31, 2008)

bigdaddy'76 said:


> Who ever is dumb enough to spend $250000/+ for speakers (Critical MASS ESL System) is a dumb ass! It would be one thing if you could throw those in your ride and win every SQ show you'll ever enter, but has that set up ever won any major SQ show, or any show, for that matter, besides showing how stupid you are for paying that much. I guess their great for people who think price=quality and get off on bragging!!


i doubt they sold any, i think their demo car was a 300c. probably at sema or ces one year. their where pictures some where. most people who win sq comps. dont have a ton of money in their system.

i dont care how richi i was i wouldnt have 250,000 on any audio system, even my home audio.

once you get to a point money wise your basically just pissing money away for very very very tiny gains, even with quality equipment. when you get into home audio it just take a bit more money before you get to that point.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

bigdaddy'76 said:


> Who ever is dumb enough to spend $250000/+ for speakers (Critical MASS ESL System) is a dumb ass! It would be one thing if you could throw those in your ride and win every SQ show you'll ever enter, but has that set up ever won any major SQ show, or any show, for that matter, besides showing how stupid you are for paying that much. I guess their great for people who think price=quality and get off on bragging!!



So why did you start this post???

Did you really want to know something or did you simply need a prelude to the "bash cMass" crap again?? 

We HAVE herd it before, ya know..


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

Come on guys that website is a "funny" site. Its to make fun of people that actually spend near that amount (like those who would pay retail for Critical Mass).

Am not saying its a cheap or knock off brand. But the prices are out of this world.


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

*EDIT*

I thought you guys where talking about this one website where they actually sell "SPL AIR" for your enclosure for 25K and this woofer for 250K (with silly testimonials stating "man I want a refund, my car fell apart within the first two seconds of playing"). And some other crazy funny **** like "antigravity fuel" for your car.

Anyways on those electrostats, I dont know if these are the new design drivers that can actually direct sound (like a flashlight when pointing light), you can actually only hear it if its pointing at you, if you move from the focus point you no longer hear the sound. Which I think is the next generation of sound, imagine two people in the same room listening to different music LOUD, without interrupting eachother!!!!!!!

**EDIT** AGAIN

LOL this isn't the driver I was referring to above. The one I mentioned seems to be WAYYYYY more cooler. I could just picture myself sitting down and having my eyes closed (and being surrounded by these cool drivers) and being able to hear someone running around me and its actually coming from speakers, but sounds so real. Haven't been able to experience that type of feeling.

But I can't say this are the drivers, but I've seen them on Discovery channel and they look very similar. I think it was on Mythbusters.


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> So why did you start this post???
> 
> Did you really want to know something or did you simply need a prelude to the "bash cMass" crap again??
> 
> We HAVE herd it before, ya know..


This thread was in no way or form started to bash on Critical Mass. I asked the question and was told to look for all the other threads to learn about Critical Mass. So I did, and learned that, although overpriced, their woofers are good quality and their speakers are decent but their components look like repackaged $30.00 Tang Bands. Also, that they have a "class A amp" Critical Mass claims will put out 1400 watts!! LMFAO :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Not to mention their $250000 set of electrostatic speakers.:shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked Which, I don't care if God personally hand made them, for $250000 are you ****ing kidding me!!!!!!:inquisitive::inquisitive: Come on, that's ridiculous regardless of brand.: I saw their $14000 amp on EBay and never had heard of the brand before. So naturally I was wondering what made them so special, to warrant that kind of price. I know that SQ guys won't hesitate to call a spade a spade!! So that's why I'm here finding out what the dealio is!!!!!


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

matthewo said:


> once you get to a point money wise your basically just pissing money away for very very very tiny gains, even with quality equipment. when you get into home audio it just take a bit more money before you get to that point.


Yea, it's called the point of diminishing returns!!!! I'd bet you'd reach that point well before well $5000!! (Of coarse that's providing proper speaker placement, for specific ride, and the tuning is all dialed in!)


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

TrickyRicky said:


> Come on guys that website is a "funny" site. Its to make fun of people that actually spend near that amount (like those who would pay retail for Critical Mass).


That's why I used the link (Mother of all Subwoofers - $145,000.00 : KaleCoAuto, Hard to find automotive items!) because it's a parody. The fact that the KaleCoAuto is so purposely outrageous and over the top, is what makes it funny as hell. However, Critical Mass is dead serious about their outrageous $250000 price tag and product claims!!!


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## Hertz5400LincolnLS (Mar 29, 2010)

I have MB-82's in my front doors and they sound great! I got them in a trade but I could see myself spending a good amount on them if I had to buy another set...no where close to MSRP though.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

bigdaddy'76 said:


> Is Critical Mass gear worth their exuberant prices. Are they that much better than lets say, Macintosh, TRU, Brax, Dynaudio, Morel, etc.? They want $12000-$15000 for an amp and $3000 for a woofer, that they claim is the best ever made! What the scoop with Critical Mass?


If you're in the Seattle area, support the local team and try diycable or creativesound. They're both local companies, and offer great gear for reasonable prices.


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## fatman406 (Jul 19, 2009)

bigdaddy'76 said:


> Who ever is dumb enough to spend $250000/+ for speakers (Critical MASS ESL System) is a dumb ass!


Here's your answer :laugh:










in the mid 90's critical mass setup shaq's "van o def"


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Patrick Bateman said:


> If you're in the Seattle area, support the local team and try diycable or creativesound. They're both local companies, and offer great gear for reasonable prices.


I live within 20 minutes of Sunfire and Carver! Those are two great local products. Have you heard the Sunfire home amplified subs? They pound hard, but they should for $2000-$3000!


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## dratunes (Nov 29, 2008)

fatman406 said:


> Here's your answer :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was just going to state this point....theyve b een around for years..... and as this thread had first started and stated...they peaked my curiosity, and I believe on theyre website its nothing but a bunch of spot icons , rap moguls etc...etc... its probably decent gear but as said before...not worth the msrp...

Ok... heres a story for everyone, back in the early to mid 90's my buddy and I decided on a project, lets see how good we can make an average speaker sound ....given the proper enclosure, good amplification, eq'ing and point source.....long story short, we hab realistic 6.5's and tweets, read some info (courtesy of Richard Clarke) on how to set the pods up for proper stage and imageing, ran oldskool RP Punch power and I cant remember what eq but we tweaked.........and ...wow.... with a little knowledge those kicks sounded amazing.
So I guess what Im saying is you can make any speaker, regardless of price or marketing chest puffing you can make any speaker sound great.


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

dratunes said:


> .
> So I guess what Im saying is you can make any speaker, regardless of price or marketing chest puffing you can make any speaker sound great.


I realize that and they wouldn't have even caught my eyes except for their crazy ass pricing, especially without a middle man. Do the same things you did to those cheap speakers, to some high end ones and just think how much better it'll sound, or at least should sound. I was wondering if the CM stuff was really that special and what made it so much different than their competition. SPECIAL, meaning in an elite SQ class, with a bullet proof design, made with best possible materials by true top craftsmanship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## dratunes (Nov 29, 2008)

bigdaddy'76 said:


> I realize that and they wouldn't have even caught my eyes except for their crazy ass pricing, especially without a middle man. Do the same things you did to those cheap speakers, to some high end ones and just think how much better it'll sound, or at least should sound. I was wondering if the CM stuff was really that special and what made it so much different than their competition. SPECIAL, meaning in an elite SQ class, with a bullet proof design, made with best possible materials by true top craftsmanship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think its on the CA&E site.....best woofers over a grand, and CM is in there and gets decent reviews, so take it what its worth I guess.

One more thing, Ill take my focal polyglass powered by a PG M50 and the eq'ing taken care of by a PG EQ215X anyday over the Realistics


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

dratunes said:


> PG M50 and the eq'ing taken care of by a PG EQ215X anyday over the Realistics


The PG M50 is a sweet amp. Back in the day (high school), I was running a PG MS2125 and A M44 and they were the ****. I wish I still had those amps. They were pretty much bullet proof, but sure sucked the juice!!


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## dratunes (Nov 29, 2008)

bigdaddy'76 said:


> The PG M50 is a sweet amp. Back in the day (high school), I was running a PG MS2125 and A M44 and they were the ****. I wish I still had those amps. They were pretty much bullet proof, but sure sucked the juice!!


Im all about the oldskool juice suckas Thats why theres aftermrket alties and batts


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## TrickyRicky (Apr 5, 2009)

There are both pro's and con's to having electrostat speakers/drivers. But nothing in the world would make me wanting to buy them for 250K. Now their subs do kick ass (atleast I think) since they have a neo magnet (which is many times stronger than the ceramic magnet most old-school speakers used) but the only advantage of that is having a VERY VERY LIGHT weight sub that can hit hard. Neo magnets are now being used on motors such as the DYSON vaccums (that claims to have more RPMs than a Ferrari).


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## dratunes (Nov 29, 2008)

TrickyRicky said:


> There are both pro's and con's to having electrostat speakers/drivers. But nothing in the world would make me wanting to buy them for 250K. Now their subs do kick ass (atleast I think) since they have a neo magnet (which is many times stronger than the ceramic magnet most old-school speakers used) but the only advantage of that is having a VERY VERY LIGHT weight sub that can hit hard. Neo magnets are now being used on motors such as the DYSON vaccums (that claims to have more RPMs than a Ferrari).


VACCUMS AND FERRARIS, I thought this was an audio site....lol.
J/K , back to the NEOS , great design but ive heard and experienced if they get to hot they tend to deteriorate.
but then again, why has a company such as MOREL used this type of magnet since the 90's?

oh, and I will add, light weight and a more compact driver, which interperates into a shallower design, hence a shallower mounting driver...


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

TrickyRicky said:


> There are both pro's and con's to having electrostat speakers/drivers. But nothing in the world would make me wanting to buy them for 250K. Now their subs do kick ass (atleast I think) since they have a neo magnet (which is many times stronger than the ceramic magnet most old-school speakers used) but the only advantage of that is having a VERY VERY LIGHT weight sub that can hit hard. Neo magnets are now being used on motors such as the DYSON vaccums (that claims to have more RPMs than a Ferrari).


Yea, but Neodymium Magnets are in most newer style speakers today. It's not like Critical Mass is thinking out of the box by using Neodymium Magnets and are revolutionizing the speaker industry!!!!!!!


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

TrickyRicky said:


> **EDIT** AGAIN
> 
> LOL this isn't the driver I was referring to above. The one I mentioned seems to be WAYYYYY more cooler. I could just picture myself sitting down and having my eyes closed (and being surrounded by these cool drivers) and being able to hear someone running around me and its actually coming from speakers, but sounds so real. Haven't been able to experience that type of feeling.
> 
> But I can't say this are the drivers, but I've seen them on Discovery channel and they look very similar. I think it was on Mythbusters.


I know what you're talking about but these aren't it. The screen appearance on the front is the only thing they have in common.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

bigdaddy'76 said:


> Yea, but Neodymium Magnets are in most newer style speakers today. It's not like Critical Mass is thinking out of the box by using Neodymium Magnets and are revolutionizing the speaker industry!!!!!!!



Nope, but they were doing it 10 years ago, on designs that were older than 10yrs no doubt and before most got involved with NEO anything..
Aura was the only other I knew of at the time (though I'm sure there where other obscurities)

Read for yourself if you haven't... Until recently you'd be hard pressed to come up with the same performance in a 17lb package.. 

Critical Mass UL12 Subwoofer Review - Subwoofer Reviews - Car Audio and Electronics

Commonplace today sure..


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## matthewo (Jan 31, 2008)

i've been using my critical mass ul12 on 4 different amps over the last year and a half in my daily driver. 2.25 cubes ported at 33hz. i ran a sundown 3000d for a while and we know that amp is 3000 plus watts. single 12 firing into the cabin sealed from the trunk, and the windsheild would flex a bit, now im powering it with a tru tech hammer and its clean and loud.

as far as neo magnets going, the reason why they are rare on subs is because you cannot just slap and expensive neo magnet on a sub and expect it to work as good or better then a regular old ceramic magnet. they require a bit more engineering. usually woofer manufactures will charge their own ceramic magnets with a machine cutting down on a lot of the cost. its very common to see midranges and tweeters with neo magnets.

you also have to think about that 95% of people dont care how heavy a subwoofer is. and also 80%+ people with subs only care about boom boom boom. how loud it gets. and in reality subs covering only a small frequency range, and low frequency, they dont have to be as percise, or quick. critical mass really took a different look at a woofer design. when i first got this woofer, i took it and hooked it up to a home audio receiver at work, and listened to the radio. freeair this sub played music full range, you could probably hook up a tweeter and have a working 2 way setup. im not making this up, the sub would play upwards of 2000-2500 hz and sound decent doing it.

one more thing to add, and this is a big one. have you ever heard of someone who bought and used a critical mass ul12 and said it was trash, its not going to happen. no logical person, who installed it correctly is going to say this speaker is trash, period.


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

matthewo said:


> i've been using my critical mass ul12 on 4 different amps over the last year and a half in my daily driver. 2.25 cubes ported at 33hz. i ran a sundown 3000d for a while and we know that amp is 3000 plus watts. single 12 firing into the cabin sealed from the trunk, and the windsheild would flex a bit, now im powering it with a tru tech hammer and its clean and loud.
> 
> as far as neo magnets going, the reason why they are rare on subs is because you cannot just slap and expensive neo magnet on a sub and expect it to work as good or better then a regular old ceramic magnet. they require a bit more engineering. usually woofer manufactures will charge their own ceramic magnets with a machine cutting down on a lot of the cost. its very common to see midranges and tweeters with neo magnets.
> 
> ...


Is it worth $3000 to you? If MSRP was $1500 and their amp pricing was on par with, lets say Brax, I would've never asked about Critical Mass. I guess for their MSRP's, I'd expect them to be the best hands down and everyones wet dream, who enjoys the best!!!


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## matthewo (Jan 31, 2008)

Nope, but worth the price I paid for it.

And I only vouch for the ul12 I cannot comment on their other products. Personally the ul 12 is all I would buy. And at a price well below retail


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

How do I get the hook up, for the good price?


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## Hertz5400LincolnLS (Mar 29, 2010)

bigdaddy'76 said:


> How do I get the hook up, for the good price?


Find it used. My MB-82's are awesome. Are they worth $800 ea retail? No. But they were worth a trade for my Hertz Air 5400 21".


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## matthewo (Jan 31, 2008)

Yeah I found mine used.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

bigdaddy'76 said:


> How do I get the hook up, for the good price?


just sold mine last week for 550 shipped..


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Illusion Audio was doing neo before Critical Mass. Illusion was out when Critical Mass was around the first time and had Shaq as an endorsee...they had the electrostat/planars back then too.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

And the second coming for Critical Mass hasn't been 10 years ago...and those subs aren't 10 years old. By the time CM released those subs, neo motors were becoming more main place....maybe 3 years a go.


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> just sold mine last week for 550 shipped..


Hence, the key word "SOLD"!!!!


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)




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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


>


Dude that's not funny, I'm epileptic!! Just playing with you. Sold, does me no good, for sale is what I'm talking about!! Although, it gives me hope that I'll find one for a decent price. Then, I'll be able to form my own opinion on CM. Just out of curiosity, why did you sell it?


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

I've been unemployed for the past 2yrs with no hope in sight... 

It was part of the collection not being used... :worried:

Times WERE better...


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I've been unemployed for the past 2yrs with no hope in sight...
> 
> It was part of the collection not being used... :worried:
> 
> Times WERE better...


Do you have any McIntosh amps?


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm selling my linear powers..


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## bigdaddy'76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I'm selling my linear powers..


Which ones and how much? How do you think they would be for running a 3way active set up? I want the cleanest power possible. That's one reason I was inquiring about Critical Mass. I currently have Xtant x603 and x604.


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## Uoykcuf (Mar 12, 2021)

s4turn said:


> hmm I've always wondered about this brand as well, never heard or seen one in my life, only on the net


It’s ok man don’t cry I have 2 amps and 2 15” woofers call me up if ur in the gay area ooopss I mean bay area


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