# The Epicenter, for bass heads only?



## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

have been looking around for new equipment. i like to have clean sound. i don't like to have my car rattle like most of the kids around my town. i have a JL 10W6 powered by a JL 750HD. I ran across the epicenter while shopping around and now I'm wondering if this will make my car sound better? or will it just make my car into a ghetto trunk rattler... input greatly appreciated 

CC


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

If you have 750 watts going to a JL10w6 and you do not have a rattling trunk now I do not think adding an epicenter will cause much if any rattling. If it does then address it. Silicone it, deaden it, cement it or some other method of stopping it. 

Those kids you mention are probably only about bass and probably have never even thought of preventing or fixing rattles.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

07azhhr said:


> If you have 750 watts going to a JL10w6 and you do not have a rattling trunk now I do not think adding an epicenter will cause much if any rattling. If it does then address it. Silicone it, deaden it, cement it or some other method of stopping it.
> 
> Those kids you mention are probably only about bass and probably have never even thought of preventing or fixing rattles.


what I'm asking is, does the epicenter add sound quality? or just more volume for low frequencies?

CC


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## WhippingBoy (Dec 21, 2010)

I've used to use an Epicenter. To me, it only added a lot of low end "rumble". It made the bass sound bloated and peaky, even with mutiple bands of EQ. With your setup and goals, save your money.


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## Lake Country Customs Mike (Dec 30, 2007)

If you get the in dash Epic 150 or 160 you can adjust or turn off as desired. It's great for 80's rock and rap to give low end where it wasn't there before. Great example is Prince's "When Doves Cry". No info below 150 hz. Play it through an Epic and it has some nice bass instead of just midbass. 


Mike Schwitz
Fabricator/sales
Lake Country Customs
Brookfield, WI
262-373-1267 (shop)
262-707-7570 (cell)


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## kustomkaraudio (Jun 20, 2009)

I agree with Mike. The Epicenter may not be a SQ item, but certainly increases the " fun " factor. Try listening to some old punk or metal , no bass , it's just not there. The epicenter has a knob, all the way down is zero effect, so increase as needed. IMHO , go for it.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

vwjmkv said:


> what I'm asking is, does the epicenter add sound quality? or just more volume for low frequencies?
> 
> CC



No it doesn't add sound quality.

Sound quality has nothing to do with your subs anyway....that is the product of your tweeters and midrange drivers.

It digitally restores low bass from higher fundamentals that are reduced from the mastering process.

If you listen to alot of live recordings from the 70's they can be good.....but for anything else I would stay away.


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

It will make 70-80's no bass music come to life but makes some heavy bass songs sound bloated.I will never be without one.
Dont waste your money on the old Epicenter,go with an epic 160.They are much better at what they do.Plus the 160 doesnt have the subsonic filter which isnt needed in most installs.


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

A subsonic plays a huge roll in effiency when in use, removing info below tuning frequency or simply cutting out tue info the subs cant play anyway..

IMHO almost any system could benifit from a subsonic

Sent from the other side using mind bullets...(YapaTalk)


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## spl152db (Dec 20, 2007)

why not try to find a maxxbass? it takes the lower frequencies and reproduces them using the higher frequency harmonics. No need to worry about blowing up your stuff with too low frequency.


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

Any system running ported should already have a subsonic filter set for their custom frequency.Adding an Epicenter with a fixed 33hz subsonic filter that is on all the time complicates things with faster rolloff and phase shift.The epic 160 was made so it doesnt effect frequency's below about 30hz on or off.Better design.
I have no experience with other brands of bass restorers except the PG Bass Cube.Which is nothing more then a parametric eq.I verified this on my bench with an oscilloscope.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

How you doing Aaron? I'm still alive lol. I don't want a SS filter because I want all the <30Hz there is. But I have enough sub for the amp I run and the volume finger I have. They are a great idea if you overpower at low frequency.

I asked a while back about Epics and other bass processors, Soundstream has a few of them for example. But I'm looking to control 30Hz and less and many bass units are 30-50Hz in focus. Using the HU is a pain, I want gain and some kind of EQ control for the lowest bass preferably a PEQ.

I could run a SS filter at 10-15Hz or so but not seeing the need in my system atm. My old xover had one I ran @15hz but don't have one now. That old unit also had a bass parametric that really was nice to have for tuning reasons.


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## deetwo (Jul 5, 2012)

I've owned one, and returned it. A complete waste of money.


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## vwjmkv (Apr 23, 2011)

im surprised at the mixed reviews. so far i have just the AC Matrix for my front stage 3-way. The rear, and Sub channels are going straight from the HU to Amps. if i have extra change i may try out an Epicenter.
Thanks for your input!

CC


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## Gadget01 (Oct 20, 2008)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> A subsonic plays a huge roll in effiency when in use, removing info below tuning frequency or simply cutting out tue info the subs cant play anyway..
> 
> IMHO almost any system could benifit from a subsonic
> 
> Sent from the other side using mind bullets...(YapaTalk)


In total agreement with Aaron.

Filtering out frequencies lower than what your amp/sub fail at doing properly is just smart and should really be a standard crossover feature. Some sub amps have adjustable subsonic filters, but they aren't very precise.



ATOMICTECH62 said:


> Any system running ported should already have a subsonic filter set for their custom frequency.Adding an Epicenter with a fixed 33hz subsonic filter that is on all the time complicates things with faster rolloff and phase shift.


Just because a ported enclosure is tuned to a certain frequency does not prevent wasted energy reproducing frequencies outside the desired range. An active pre-amp crossover should not have any effect on phase. It's the passive crossovers that are guilty of this.

The subsonic filter (high pass crossover) on AudioControl components is 33Hz only because that just happens to be the factory default. What sucks about it being 33Hz, is if you have a system that can nicely produce 25Hz notes, they will get a 12db reduction (24db/octave)- cut in half 4 times, so basically inaudible.

The frequency is set by a resistor network that fits on a DIP socket on the main board accessible only by opening up the chassis- not exactly intuitive or convenient. You can purchase modules from AudioControl dealers, but you'll spend about 20x what they are worth. You can order them from Mouser or Digikey for pennies- just search for resistors/resistor networks/isolated circuit type, etc.

7200/frequency= the kOhm of the resistance. For my 6XS, I set the subsonic filter at 20Hz with a 360kOhm resistor module since I was running a 12" Polk sub in a sealed enclosure driven by 800 watts. For a smaller sub with less power, you could play louder if the cutoff was set higher. You can also make modules with individual resistors, but it's a bit more tedious. This is different than most other active crossovers that use a frequency adjustment knob accessible on the outside. The upshot is you get a lot more precision and a 24dB/octave slope (except the 2XS, which is 18db).


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## wooferdog (Mar 31, 2011)

i had the epic 160 and it added quite a bit of rumble to male vocals and just made things not sound right. it was a constant battle adjusting it up and down. i ended up with the PG basscube. so much nicer to set up just where you need it.check the link below

http://download.phoenixphorum.com/Manuals/Processors/Basscubes/BassCube_Secrets.pdf


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## zumbo (Feb 4, 2012)

Was not aware until now that the HD line didn't offer remote bass, but they do have a defeatable 30Hz infrasonic filter.

I enjoy the selectable remote bass on my JL 500/1.


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

When running a ported box there should always be an active high pass crossover set at or just below the tuning frequency of the box.This is mostly to keep the sub from over excursion because it is not loaded below the tuning frequency.So a properly designed system should already have this.
Active crossovers do have phase shifts just like passive ones.They are the same,90 degrees for 6 db/oct.180 degree for 12 db/oct etc....They also have the same phase characteristics as the type of crossover,such as Butterworth,Bessel,Linkwitz-Riley etc...
The newer epicenters do have the PFM but the old ones dont.
Also AC recommends not using a low pass filter on the signal going into the unit.If you have to use low pass make it as high as you can,at least 120hz.I have had decent results using it at 200hz but if its to low(60hz) all that comes out is a sloppy rumble.
There are a few threads on here about Bass restorers.Some one took a few different brands apart and found they were all copies of the Epicenter.Even the circuit boards were identical.


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## Gadget01 (Oct 20, 2008)

ATOMICTECH62 said:


> Active crossovers do have phase shifts just like passive ones.They are the same,90 degrees for 6 db/oct.180 degree for 12 db/oct etc....They also have the same phase characteristics as the type of crossover,such as Butterworth,Bessel,Linkwitz-Riley etc...


Thanks for the correction. So if there is a 180 shift for a 12dB/oct, does that mean there is a 360 degree shift for a 24dB/oct? Doesn't that effectively mean there is no shift?


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

Yes.You are correct.Right at the xover point it should be back in phase just lagging 1 cycle,in theory anyway.


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## mkvy1 (Sep 20, 2016)

ATOMICTECH62 said:


> Yes.You are correct.Right at the xover point it should be back in phase just lagging 1 cycle,in theory anyway.


The epicenter In dash Is a fun unit.. But you got to watch out for clipping.. Setting any gain overlap to ZERO is the key!

If your using -10db overlap with a DD1 Forget it! I use the headunits sub level to reduce it to 0 DB overlap -10 on the dial for me...

Its Now usable! and great SPL meter.. Never realised how my system reached over 130db with music  without the bass restoration activated


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## glockcoma (Dec 22, 2015)

mkvy1 said:


> The epicenter In dash Is a fun unit.. But you got to watch out for clipping.. Setting any gain overlap to ZERO is the key!
> 
> If your using -10db overlap with a DD1 Forget it! I use the headunits sub level to reduce it to 0 DB overlap -10 on the dial for me...
> 
> Its Now usable! and great SPL meter.. Never realised how my system reached over 130db with music  without the bass restoration activated




Ummmm this thread was dead over 4 years ago....
It's alive....IT'S ALIVE !!!!


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

What about the PG BassCube (or what appears to be very similar the Soundstream XBP10)?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Glad this thread came back up. I've been looking into an Epicenter since I prefer original versions of older albums and as mentioned they lack that low end. Anyone know if the newer indash Epicenter is the same functionally as the older 160.

The Epicenter Indash - AudioControl


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## lurch (Jan 20, 2014)

i dont know how it compares to the 160 but it is very well built, looks sharp,
and the db/volt meter is slick. 


what i didnt like was the bass adjustment. 
the bass level is only adjustable with processing ON. 
turn the switch off and the knob does.... nothing. 
big fail in my eyes. 

i notice that the new audio control amps have a remote that adjusts
level AND processing. when i can afford one i'll be trying out their 1200 watter.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

lurch said:


> i dont know how it compares to the 160 but it is very well built, looks sharp,
> and the db/volt meter is slick.
> 
> 
> ...


I'm ok with it not working when the processing is off. I plan on doing sub level from an MS-8 and adding the Epicenter before the DSP. Reason being is that I need it's line driving ability for an iDevice headphone out and I also feel the signal should be processing/restored before a DSP shops it up. My reasoning is that any phase distortions added by the Epicenter will be delt with better when they are part of the whole spectrum then when they are only in the sub out of the DSP. Kinda like doing my own studio remastering.

Noise performance might suffer a little bit but the specs for the Epicenter seem pretty solid, so even that might not come to light.


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## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

Wow, I bought my first Epicenter in 1991. It was a part of several Audio Control products that were in IASCA and USAC competitors cars in the early to mid '90s. Audio Control was the #1 analog signal processor maker back then. Almost everybody had at least one of the following; Epicenter, ESP-3, 4XS, 2XS, EQL and 2 or more EQTs. When digital processors like the Sony XES systems, the Clarion ADCS-1, Alpine's PXA-H600, and a few other DSPs started taking over signal processing, I changed out too for the new DSPs too. I really missed the Epicenter. It was fun.

Ironically I just got a new Epicenter this week along with a 15Hz/18dB/oct PFM chip for the subsonic filter. It's now sitting in my closet ready to be installed in the next complete system I build, for a vehicle that I have not bought yet.


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## lsm (Mar 11, 2009)

Crutchfield has the Epicenter on sale for $159.99 right now. Just ordered one


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## mkvy1 (Sep 20, 2016)

My sub gain is set using a -10db 40 htz tone. Before I turn on restoration I attenuate the sub level on the head -10 db , to give a net 0db gain match. Only then is it safe to turn on restoration. You have to experiment with the in dash controls to get a satisfactory result that does not clip at high volume levels, my main knob is a bit less that half, frequency at about 43 htz and a bit less than half on the q knob... Works great!


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