# Where is Hybrid Audio manufactured?



## lilredsammy (Feb 10, 2012)

title says it all. Are all in the product line made in the same place? Just curious? All polite answers are greatly appreciated. 

All future lectures on global trade and how no products are completely made in any given place or how the Chinese can make a product superior to anybody else can eat a sack full of unwashed cocks. This seems to be all anybody wants to answer with.


I'm just asking a question. I greatly appreciate answers to the question. Please waste your douchery on my reason for asking somewhere else. Why put forth an effort to reply if you are just going to be a douchebag?


----------



## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Some where overseas by a build house, like 99% of the other products from any other company.

What is the reason for the questions?


----------



## lilredsammy (Feb 10, 2012)

As I said in my post, just curious. I realize that good products can be made in China. I know they meet strict quality control in order to achieve the extreme amount of respect they garner. But..........If Hybrid (product A) is made in China vs XXXXXXX (product B) is made somewhere besides China and I'm just as happy with product B as I am product A then I will in every single case choose product B.


----------



## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

lilredsammy said:


> As I said in my post, just curious. I realize that good products can be made in China. I know they meet strict quality control in order to achieve the extreme amount of respect they garner. But..........If Hybrid (product A) is made in China vs XXXXXXX (product B) is made somewhere besides China and I'm just as happy with product B as I am product A then I will in every single case choose product B.


Merica or nothin!




Why does it matter where its made? If its made with quality thats all that matters really. These days there are 0 products fully made in one country. Assembled sure, but 100% from one country your not gonna find. Too many small components are built elsewhere and shipped all around the world for that.


----------



## lilredsammy (Feb 10, 2012)

Genxx said:


> Some where overseas by a build house, like 99% of the other products from any other company.
> 
> What is the reason for the questions?


Why does the reason matter?


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

lilredsammy said:


> Why does the reason matter?


it doesn't really matter, but makes people curious. at least me.

i buy stuff for different reasons from different people/manufactures. i actually just ordered some Hybrid today. Scott and crew are awesome when it comes to anything related to their product, so, I like to support them. A tiny bit has to do with them being in the US and very accessible.

I've actually been almost yelled at, by an amp manufacturer that I should not be selling Hybrid. Guess what I'm selling and what I'm not selling anymore.

Also, I've had a hard time getting good tech support from foreign companies. 

As far as car audio goes, and being a dealer, I do my best to support products that work great, and have a good tech support backing to go with it.

I'm somewhat like you with cars. I was very happy to buy my Scion XB because it was still made in Japan. Being an installer and taking apart every car imaginable, and doing so when Japanese cars started to be made in USA, I did see a difference in how the cars were put together. Also, I was working on a lot of TL's of that year you talk about when they came out and read many threads about interior problems.

Anyway, I'm just rambling.

Oh, and I thought it was funny that lilred called bigred a douche. :laugh::laugh:


----------



## lilredsammy (Feb 10, 2012)

jtaudioacc said:


> it doesn't really matter, but makes people curious. at least me.
> 
> i buy stuff for different reasons from different people/manufactures. i actually just ordered some Hybrid today. Scott and crew are awesome when it comes to anything related to their product, so, I like to support them. A tiny bit has to do with them being in the US and very accessible.
> 
> ...



That's cool. I appreciate the real dialogue without needing to opine or criticize me on the reason for asking the question. I'm sure everybody has had the problem of buying a item made in China that breaks the first time you use it and you exchange it for another and it also breaks. It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth. 

I'm glad to hear your actual input. I will likely use Hybrid in my next upgrade. I have Focal separates now and I'm not thrilled with them. This is my first venture into high SQ in car audio. I've had some experience with high SQ home audio (I had a couple of Cary Audio monoblock tube amps with a whopping 15wpc and Vienna Acoustic bookshelf speakers). They were glorious. 

I'm replacing a decent JVC head unit today with the Pioneer DEH-80prs. I'm a bit nostalgic with amps though. I'm using Phoenix Gold M-series. I love old school amps. I bought them off ebay. The problem with these is I've sent them to ZED and they were sent back more noisy than before they left. 

Again, thanks for real conversation.


----------



## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

ChrisB said:


> I could care less where the speakers are manufactured. It's the customer support that matters to me!


You bastard! Beat me to it. Basically that's my whole take on it, and from personal experience I have had better support and customer service from overseas manufacturers 8/10 times compared to U.S. ones.

It really comes down to in my opinion there's a greater percent of "foreigners" that take pride in there work no matter what it is compared to a lot of us here. Fast food is a prime example of that if you have ever visited the same places in other countries. In the end nearly everyone outsources to everyone else. Hell China outsources to Korea.


----------



## lilredsammy (Feb 10, 2012)

cruzinbill said:


> You bastard! Beat me to it. Basically that's my whole take on it, and from personal experience I have had better support and customer service from overseas manufacturers 8/10 times compared to U.S. ones.
> 
> It really comes down to in my opinion there's a greater percent of "foreigners" that take pride in there work no matter what it is compared to a lot of us here. Fast food is a prime example of that if you have ever visited the same places in other countries. In the end nearly everyone outsources to everyone else. Hell China outsources to Korea.


Agree 100%! BUT, If I find a product that has equal quality, equal customer support and equal value that's made here vs. there, I will choose here every time. That was my entire reason for the initial question. I didn't see it listed on Hybrid website so I figured I'd ask the forum. I'm just trying to be an educated consumer, not the America is #1 person. If i'm dropping $1k on 4 speakers I want to know every detail possible and consider every detail in the purchase.


----------



## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

lilredsammy said:


> Agree 100%! BUT, If I find a product that has equal quality, equal customer support and equal value that's made here vs. there, I will choose here every time. That was my entire reason for the initial question. I didn't see it listed on Hybrid website so I figured I'd ask the forum. I'm just trying to be an educated consumer, not the America is #1 person. If i'm dropping $1k on 4 speakers I want to know every detail possible and consider every detail in the purchase.


I'd probably do the same as well. Probably would have helped had you explained that in the original post. 

Actually, I take that back. If I were to buy say, a Camry. One was built here, and one was built in Japan. I'd take the Japanese one.


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Food for thought. Some Hybrid Audio products are made in China. In direct Hybrid Audio personnel oversight, 1,000 sets of speakers can be manufactured by machine in an ISO 9001/14001 certified facility, and hand tested for operation, QA'd, and put into a gift box in a matter of a few hours. I have calculated the few hours needed to assemble speakers is about 0.2% of the man-hour total required to bring that product to production and ship to dealers. The other 99.8% is done in the USA by Americans. Which would you rather see come back to America? 99.8% or 0.2%? 

When you buy a Hybrid Audio product, yes, a few percent of your purchase price might go to an off-shore factory for their assembly expertise. But note that the lion's share of your purchase price goes to support 250 dealers around the USA (and incidentally exporters in 40 different countries), and their value-added services, and ultimately, to those that rely on Hybrid Audio to pay their mortgage and shoe their children, via salary. My kids get dance lessons, trombone lessons, and clothes to wear at school courtesy of my job at Hybrid Audio Technologies. Yes, a small percentage pays for the machine to assemble the product, but far more than that supports several hundred, if not a thousand or more real individuals that work for our dealers or are a family member of a dealer, or work for Hybrid Audio directly.

Finally, the ISO9001 machine has no idea what country's ground it is bolted down to.

Food for thought, as Hybrid Audio is the ONLY USA-based high-end speaker manufacturer left. You buy anyone else's stuff and you truly are supporting an off-shore company, where just short of 100% of sale proceeds go to support foreign individuals. The only exception are those companies that maintain sales/distribution branches in the USA, such as our four closest competitors, and therefore do offer some tangible benefit to Americans through salary and etc.


----------



## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

lilredsammy said:


> Agree 100%! BUT, If I find a product that has equal quality, equal customer support and equal value that's made here vs. there, I will choose here every time. That was my entire reason for the initial question. I didn't see it listed on Hybrid website so I figured I'd ask the forum. I'm just trying to be an educated consumer, not the America is #1 person. If i'm dropping $1k on 4 speakers I want to know every detail possible and consider every detail in the purchase.


Ah ok I get ya now and that makes sense


----------



## lilredsammy (Feb 10, 2012)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Food for thought. Some Hybrid Audio products are made in China. In direct Hybrid Audio personnel oversight, 1,000 sets of speakers can be manufactured by machine in an ISO 9001/14001 certified facility, and hand tested for operation, QA'd, and put into a gift box in a matter of a few hours. I have calculated the few hours needed to assemble speakers is about 0.2% of the man-hour total required to bring that product to production and ship to dealers. The other 99.8% is done in the USA by Americans. Which would you rather see come back to America? 99.8% or 0.2%?
> 
> When you buy a Hybrid Audio product, yes, a few percent of your purchase price might go to an off-shore factory for their assembly expertise. But note that the lion's share of your purchase price goes to support 250 dealers around the USA (and incidentally exporters in 40 different countries), and their value-added services, and ultimately, to those that rely on Hybrid Audio to pay their mortgage and shoe their children, via salary. My kids get dance lessons, trombone lessons, and clothes to wear at school courtesy of my job at Hybrid Audio Technologies. Yes, a small percentage pays for the machine to assemble the product, but far more than that supports several hundred, if not a thousand or more real individuals that work for our dealers or are a family member of a dealer, or work for Hybrid Audio directly.
> 
> ...



Awesome! Thank you for your answer. I will be making a purchase in the very near future.


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Food for thought. Some Hybrid Audio products are made in China. In direct Hybrid Audio personnel oversight, 1,000 sets of speakers can be manufactured by machine in an ISO 9001/14001 certified facility, and hand tested for operation, QA'd, and put into a gift box in a matter of a few hours. I have calculated the few hours needed to assemble speakers is about 0.2% of the man-hour total required to bring that product to production and ship to dealers. The other 99.8% is done in the USA by Americans. Which would you rather see come back to America? 99.8% or 0.2%?
> 
> When you buy a Hybrid Audio product, yes, a few percent of your purchase price might go to an off-shore factory for their assembly expertise. But note that the lion's share of your purchase price goes to support 250 dealers around the USA (and incidentally exporters in 40 different countries), and their value-added services, and ultimately, to those that rely on Hybrid Audio to pay their mortgage and shoe their children, via salary. My kids get dance lessons, trombone lessons, and clothes to wear at school courtesy of my job at Hybrid Audio Technologies. Yes, a small percentage pays for the machine to assemble the product, but far more than that supports several hundred, if not a thousand or more real individuals that work for our dealers or are a family member of a dealer, or work for Hybrid Audio directly.
> 
> ...


Well put Scott!!


----------



## lizardking (Nov 8, 2008)

What products do you make 100% in the USA? To me it's not about where it's made but how the people that make products are treated and paid. In the end do they really know any better? Probably not!


----------



## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

lizardking said:


> What products do you make 100% in the USA? To me it's not about where it's made but how the people that make products are treated and paid. In the end do they really know any better? Probably not!


He didnt say any of them were made in the usa, he just said some are made in china. After google earthing the hat address from the website it appears to be a residential home, so i doubt anything is made there.


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Food for thought. Some Hybrid Audio products are made in China. In direct Hybrid Audio personnel oversight, 1,000 sets of speakers can be manufactured by machine in an ISO 9001/14001 certified facility, and hand tested for operation, QA'd, and put into a gift box in a matter of a few hours. I have calculated the few hours needed to assemble speakers is about 0.2% of the man-hour total required to bring that product to production and ship to dealers. The other 99.8% is done in the USA by Americans. Which would you rather see come back to America? 99.8% or 0.2%?
> 
> When you buy a Hybrid Audio product, yes, a few percent of your purchase price might go to an off-shore factory for their assembly expertise. But note that the lion's share of your purchase price goes to support 250 dealers around the USA (and incidentally exporters in 40 different countries), and their value-added services, and ultimately, to those that rely on Hybrid Audio to pay their mortgage and shoe their children, via salary. My kids get dance lessons, trombone lessons, and clothes to wear at school courtesy of my job at Hybrid Audio Technologies. Yes, a small percentage pays for the machine to assemble the product, but far more than that supports several hundred, if not a thousand or more real individuals that work for our dealers or are a family member of a dealer, or work for Hybrid Audio directly.
> 
> ...


How can you be a manufacturer of speakers, yet you import them? Also, can you provide a break down of that 99.8% timetable?

Thanks!


----------



## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

bassfromspace said:


> How can you be a manufacturer of speakers, yet you import them?
> 
> Thanks!


maybe it is splitting hairs, but generally an importer is seen as someone who buys a complete product from another company and resells it usually as is, as opposed to having a product spec'd and then built by someone else.

Two cases. 1) apple. No one calls Apple an importer yet they don't make the iPhone. It is made in Taiwan (iirc) to apple's specs and shipped here. 2) Same goes for Nike shoes. Nike doesn't own the factories that make their shoes. Are they an importer then? I used to work for an online shoe retailer that started selling their own shoes. Happened to be made right next to Nike's shoes in the same factories, but were designed by the company I worked for. what does that make them?

In all three instances the physical manufacturing happens over seas, in a factory owned by someone else. Does that mean none of them are manufacturers? Guess it depends on your point of view, and in this situation both views are probably correct.


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Richv72, yes, indeed, google earth shows that as a residence. That's where I live. It is my permanent address. I knew way back seven years ago that I was more likely to grow my business and therefore lease different commercial properties than I was to move my physical residential address. I was right! So to keep things simple and consistent, and not have to announce every two or three years a new physical commercial address, we have maintained my residence as the permanent address. That being said, we are in the final two weeks before (hopefully) closing on a new 11,000 square foot building. Knowing that 11,000 feet will suffice for several years, we will then make the change to that being the permanent address.

bassfromspace, no I won't publically give a break down of that 99.8% number. That would be considered company confidential and giving that information away to a public forum for consumption would not be in any interest of my company. That number is based on sheer hours needed to bring a product from paper napkin scribbled design and "you know what would be cool" discussion had at a bistro one night, to design, to development, to delivered and ready to sell at a dealer. So if I said that 0.2% was "a few hours at the builhouse being assembled", one could assume that the other 99.8% encompasses perhaps as much as 2,000 hours in total time from an idea at 3 AM while laying in bed, to solidworks and CAM rendering, to parts sourcing and tooling, to several rounds of samples evaluation, to more tweaking parameters, to beta prototyping, sending to Team Hybrids members to compete in competition and get their feedback and incorporate, more third-party real-world testing, media evaluation, art, web, user's manuals, promotion, marketing, assembly, shipping...and there you have it.


----------



## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Richv72, yes, indeed, google earth shows that as a residence. That's where I live. It is my permanent address. I knew way back seven years ago that I was more likely to grow my business and therefore lease different commercial properties than I was to move my physical residential address. I was right! So to keep things simple and consistent, and not have to announce every two or three years a new physical commercial address, we have maintained my residence as the permanent address. That being said, we are in the final two weeks before (hopefully) closing on a new 11,000 square foot building. Knowing that 11,000 feet will suffice for several years, we will then make the change to that being the permanent address.
> 
> bassfromspace, no I won't publically give a break down of that 99.8% number. That would be considered company confidential and giving that information away to a public forum for consumption would not be in any interest of my company. That number is based on sheer hours needed to bring a product from paper napkin scribbled design and "you know what would be cool" discussion had at a bistro one night, to design, to development, to delivered and ready to sell at a dealer. So if I said that 0.2% was "a few hours at the builhouse being assembled", one could assume that the other 99.8% encompasses perhaps as much as 2,000 hours in total time from an idea at 3 AM while laying in bed, to solidworks and CAM rendering, to parts sourcing and tooling, to several rounds of samples evaluation, to more tweaking parameters, to beta prototyping, sending to Team Hybrids members to compete in competition and get their feedback and incorporate, more third-party real-world testing, media evaluation, art, web, user's manuals, promotion, marketing, assembly, shipping...and there you have it.


Fair enough, thnx for the reply.


----------



## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Food for thought, as Hybrid Audio is the ONLY USA-based high-end speaker manufacturer left. You buy anyone else's stuff and you truly are supporting an off-shore company, where just short of 100% of sale proceeds go to support foreign individuals. The only exception are those companies that maintain sales/distribution branches in the USA, such as our four closest competitors, and therefore do offer some tangible benefit to Americans through salary and etc.


Easy there, Scott... you're not alone.

I'm very sure that Lucio Proni and Andy Oxenhorn are American... and they happen to own JL Audio... and we do manufacture high-end speakers, here in the US, as well as China and Germany. When you buy our stuff, you support over 200 jobs right here in the U.S.

Off the top of my head, there are several other American-owned car speaker brands: Harman: (JBL/Infinity), Polk Audio, Rockford, Kicker, MTX, Diamond Audio/CerwinVega, Phoenix Gold (AAMP), and I'm sure I've missed a few others.


----------



## left channel (Jul 9, 2008)

As a former business owner I tried to bring production of our products back to the USA. It was a difficult task and became very costly. Unfortunately most customers won't pay the extra premium that goes along with the Made In The USA sticker that you place on a product. Ultimately we were forced to return production to China. As Scott stated, the amount of money spent on oversees productions is a small fraction of the cost of doing business.


----------



## Mack (Jul 27, 2007)

May have just sold some speakers to me, even though I'm not in the market for some!


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

msmith said:


> Easy there, Scott... you're not alone.
> 
> I'm very sure that Lucio Proni and Andy Oxenhorn are American... and they happen to own JL Audio... and we do manufacture high-end speakers, here in the US, as well as China and Germany. When you buy our stuff, you support over 200 jobs right here in the U.S.
> 
> Off the top of my head, there are several other American-owned car speaker brands: Harman: (JBL/Infinity), Polk Audio, Rockford, Kicker, MTX, Diamond Audio/CerwinVega, Phoenix Gold (AAMP), and I'm sure I've missed a few others.


You are very right bro, I was just speaking about hi-end companies we compete with, which are all incidentally foreign companies. We don't compete at any appreciable level with those you mentioned.


----------



## donnieL72 (Jun 20, 2012)

Scott, I believe you just gained a customer. The way you conduct yourself and promote your business is admirable. It's not like you're some stiff suit CEO, but a good guy that enjoys competing that happens to own a great company. My hat's off to you sir.


----------



## captainscarlett (Mar 15, 2011)

I had to have a go on the I6SW like PWK did in his 'Just Imagine' video. As i'm having problems with various software (keeps on closing after 2 mins) I had to work things out on my own. After 3 attempts, I got the performance i wanted. 

I have to say without reservation, despite being a 6.5" it is far the best subwoofer I've ever heard. Speed and timing is second to none. Just a shame that in the UK I can't get my hands on another one. I would have loved to have got my hands on the I8SW as well!


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

DonnieL72, thanks a bunch!!

captainscarlett, we have a distributor in the UK! <wink>


----------



## oilman (Feb 21, 2012)

It's cool to have a vendor that's one of us and can chime in on threads. I don't own any of Scott's products but if I did he's the kind of guy I would be proud to represent. I know there's others that do the same thing and it's appreciated by all of us.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Acoustic elegance though known for subs, are some of the finest in the world and made in Wisconsin


----------



## bgalaxy (Aug 18, 2006)

What is it with people and where car audio is built? Is it the same people who ***** that their TV , Laptop and smartphone are made overseas? Probably not. So what is it about CA that gives everyone a hardon about not being manufactured here? I don't get it, Scott sounds like he does a killer job providing a product to the consumer. I don't think I have seen anyone unhappy about the product or the customer service. Face it, production here is long gone. Not only has our own government made it difficult, but the work force has given up on production. I would much rather spend my money with Scott (and some day I will) who I can deal with on a personal basis, then some mass produced product where even their customer service is outsourced.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Do you collaborate with Tang Band? I was informed this by a previous Hybrid retailer. Not tlike thats a bad thing, just curious.


----------



## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm still curious about which Hybrid products are manufactured in the US. Parts or assembly. Not just shipped out of a warehouse.


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

tyroneshoes, no, not at all.

oilman, thanks!!


----------



## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Food for thought. Some Hybrid Audio products are made in China. In direct Hybrid Audio personnel oversight, 1,000 sets of speakers can be manufactured by machine in an ISO 9001/14001 certified facility, and hand tested for operation, QA'd, and put into a gift box in a matter of a few hours. I have calculated the few hours needed to assemble speakers is about 0.2% of the man-hour total required to bring that product to production and ship to dealers. The other 99.8% is done in the USA by Americans. Which would you rather see come back to America? 99.8% or 0.2%?



Interesting. But it did not answer the question, where are the products made? 

From your post one could derive that all of you products are made China while most of the actual profit stays in the USA. 



For me as a consumer currently looking at buying your product I would like to know where they are manufactured.


----------



## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

This has been gone over before and this thread is dragging out. A simple search you can find the info you ask for easily.

Zhongshan Hivi Research Electronic - Supplier Profile / Detailed Company Information, Imports & Exports

In these days manufactures could just say it out right. Almost everything is on the internet now days. You can get info on any manufacture you are concerned with if you do a little searching on the interwebs.

Some where on this forum is has been stated previously that Hi-Vi is the build house for HAT. Only Scott can confirm/deny this or you can just look at the data on the internet and make your own decision.

I am not trying to be a smart ass but all the info is out there. There are a ton of threads on here talking about or asking where something is made. No need to ask on here when the info is readily available with some searching.

In the car audio world 99% of stuff is not made 100% in the USA, its just the way it is. We could get all into the reasons why but by now every one should have figured out that reason.

It does not matter where something is made as long as you are getting what you pay for. Everyone has a different budget. If JL, HAT, JBL, Scanspeak, Zapco, PPI, Sound Stream, PG or whoever has a product you believe in and fits your budget the rest does not even matter anymore.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Shenzhen Erisson Technology Co.,ltd
No18 Zhongxing Road Bugi Longgang,,
, Shenzhen Cn 518000


Hybrid Audio Technologies
6775 Payton Road
Cumming, Ga 30041

B/L Number : PIFWSZX30068496 Weight : 1,000 KG Pre Carrier : Yantian, China
Arrival Date : 2010-08-17 Quantity : 54 CTN Foreign Port : 57078 - Yantian, China
Carrier : PIFW Measure : 0 CM U.S. Port : 2709 - Long Beach, California
Vessel Name : Msc Lucy Vessel Code :
Voyage : R1031
Product Description : Car Speakers
Marks & Numbers : Hybrid Audio,te Chnologies,high Performance,mo Bile Audio Spea Kers,legatia Pr O L1,hybrid Aud Io,technologies ,high Performan Ce,mobile Audio Speakers,legat Ia L1 Pro R2,hy Brid Audio,tech Nologies,high P Erformance,mobi Le Audio Speake


B/L Number : PIFWSZX30068496 Weight : 1,000 KG Pre Carrier : Yantian, China
Arrival Date : 2010-08-17 Quantity : 54 CTN Foreign Port : 57078 - Yantian, China
Carrier : PIFW Measure : 0 CM U.S. Port : 2709 - Long Beach, California
Vessel Name : Msc Lucy Vessel Code :
Voyage : R1031
Product Description : Car Speakers
Marks & Numbers : Hybrid Audio,te Chnologies,high Performance,mo Bile Audio Spea Kers,legatia Pr O L1,hybrid Aud Io,technologies ,high Performan Ce,mobile Audio Speakers,legat Ia L1 Pro R2,hy Brid Audio,tech Nologies,high P Erformance,mobi Le Audio Speake Rs,legatia L6 S E

Im in contact with this build house now. Of course only 2% of profits go to china when you mark it up 400%


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

We don't collaborate with Tang Band.

We don't collaborate with HiVi Research anymore. We did pre-2008.

Yes, some parts are made by Errison. Most of it not complete assemblies and therefore are shown as such in tarrif invoices. Errison is more well-known for boxing and packaging and that's one of the stops on the journey.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

They also make speakers. Imagine that










Good prices too

Youre good at marketing. Hats off to you. 

.


----------



## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Let the jealousy and hate out Tyrone. It's cathartic for you and makes you feel vindicated in your quest to prove Scott makes money. gj


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I have no hate. I just enjoy capitalism and dislike dishonesty. Im not bashing HAT products, its just this "made in usa" is likely not true. Thats what the topic is titled, yes?

Lean to differentiate jealousy from skepticism and throw away your confirmation bias. I believed his marketing as well until there was enough evidence to make any claims.


----------



## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Your replys are just as much about Hybrid product mark up as they are about being made in USA. And without much of a stretch you are portraying Scott as deceitful in his marketing and pricing. That's being a hater no matter how you look at it. Especially obvious considering you are trying to get going with your importing of competing car audio products. So either you keep it on topic and respectful or I will.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Let everyone else decide. I have shared my knowledge.


----------



## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Fair enough. And you have shared some interesting information, along with a few other people.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Here's something that speaks for itself. copper carbon fiber speakers....sounds right


----------



## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Everything has a mark up that is how you make a profit. It is on product you buy no matter where is manufactured.

Why the mark-up:
Shipping, packaging, marketing, R&D, distribution, warranty, customer service and we could go on.

Let's say x manufactured for $20 then establishes dealer cost at $150 and establishes a MSRP $299.99 with a map of $249.99. X brand appears to make $130 but they don't. You have to factor in all the other cost, so if I had to guess maybe they see profit of $50 per product. The dealer sales it at MAP he makes $100 but then the dealer has cost he must deduct, payroll, rent, insurance, worker comp., taxes, so he might see $50 per product. Now for the manufacture or dealer to keep their doors open they must sell a ton of gear. However the dealer makes some additional money off install. The manufacture only has the product.

The better the marketing, customer service ect. the more product they move, they have to or go bankrupt. 

You might not like HAT or Scott. HAT is operating like any other company even if you don't like the way it works. 

Now if I read this correctly Scott has claimed US Owned and operated not manufactured in the US.

Edit: Scott did state: "Hybrid Audio is the ONLY USA-based high-end *speaker manufacturer* left". However Scott can claim that by the definition of the word manufacturer. HAT is a USA speaker manufacturer. There is a difference in manufacturer and manufactured. Scott clearly uses the word manufacturer. HAT is a manufacturer that has something manufactured.


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Brian, thank you. That is correct. No where did I say that the product was assembled in the USA. It's not. If the act of building a speakers takes 100 steps, 99 are done in the USA. The 100th is gluing the parts together by a machine off-site. Pretty simple. Does it matter if this machine is in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, Germany, or Denmark? As long as the certifications and QA/QC are in place, it doesn't. Furthermore, we are one of VERY few suppliers that actually test 100% of our product as it rolls off the production line. This is why a D.O.A. product rarely occurs, and is usually a cold solder joint on a tweeter that shook loose in transport. The same can't be said for MANY other suppliers; I have heard some vendors plagued with 5-8% failure rate right out of the box! 

There's been no deception here. I haven't used fancy words to make someone believe otherwise. Sure, one can look up bills of lading on line and make irresponsible conclusions as to product value. A tarrif invoice tells you virtually nothing about the product coming in, nor its assembled value.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I am indifferent to Scott. If anything I admire his marketing skill and ability to be successful in a very challenging market. And his speakers can sound very good when tuned well as evidenced by his team. Thats not the title of the thread, however. Semantics are semantics.


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

I think an argument could easily be made that if the raw parts are produced overseas, and then the speaker is also assembled overseas, that using the phrase Made in the USA...might be taking some liberties. If that is in fact the argument here...


----------



## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

I don't see where Scott said Made in the USA. 

I am not a HAT fanboy or hatter. Me and Scott have had different opinions on different things and we both know that. 

However if you look at the facts only things are pretty clear for this thread.

Anyone can turn x into a debate on if x is over priced or not high-end ect. IMO that is a different debate and thread. IMO the facts are here in the thread already to answer the question asked.

If anyone wants to debate Scott or prices are to high, product not good ect. you guys have fun.


----------



## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

in today's electronic market and business i don't see what it really matters where something is built. and it's a business's own prerogative to decide how much it marks up a product or service. as long as you get what you want and you decide to pay for it is all that matters.


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Genxx said:


> I don't see where Scott said Made in the USA.
> 
> I am not a HAT fanboy or hatter. Me and Scott have had different opinions on different things and we both know that.
> 
> ...


true...he did not, he said USA based, and said that 98% of what it takes to produce the speakers happens in the US. Its carefully chosen words.

PS..i own a pair of HAT speakers and find them to be quiet nice.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Food for thought, as Hybrid Audio is the ONLY USA-based high-end speaker manufacturer left.



No one is questioning the pricing or the quality and customer service. I am strictly staying on topic. If I click a bunch of order form buttons from my house in NJ and get speakers sent to my house straight from china, which I then touch up the cosmetics and add a logo and some stickers then go sell in the usa.....then I would be usa-based brand as well following that logic. But thats not true.

To me, if youre going to use the terms built/manufactured/ or based in the usa. You should be actually be building it here like JL Audio does. 100% American is damn near impossible since you cant get magnets out of china.


----------



## audiorailroad (Mar 6, 2007)

i bet jl audio gets parts from non usa sources as well.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Its impossible not to.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

audiorailroad said:


> i bet jl audio gets parts from non usa sources as well.


It's already been stated by JL that SOME parts are outsourced. But all of their higher end products are assembled in Florida and from the pictures, it looks like a lot of it is done by humans.


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

BuickGN said:


> It's already been stated by JL that SOME parts are outsourced. But all of their higher end products are assembled in Florida and from the pictures, it looks like a lot of it is done by humans.


U.S. designers also


----------



## Neil_J (Mar 2, 2011)

Scott Buwalda said:


> Furthermore, we are one of VERY few suppliers that actually test 100% of our product as it rolls off the production line. This is why a D.O.A. product rarely occurs, and is usually a cold solder joint on a tweeter that shook loose in transport. The same can't be said for MANY other suppliers; I have heard some vendors plagued with 5-8% failure rate right out of the box!


Yep. One of my HAT L3SE's had a screw shook loose and measured something like 17 ohms, and the other one was wired backwards polarity-wise. So in my personal, strictly-anecdotal experience, my failure rate is 2 out of 10 Hybrid speakers that I've owned... And admittedly much lower for others. I'm not picking a side, really, but still believe that both of the failures could have been caught, given the high price that I payed for them. Scott has always been there to answer questions, and I certainly can't complain there. Sh$%t does happen though. The difference is whether you're supported or ignored when it does. Scott answers the phone and answers e-mails, which has kept me very happy.


On another note.. Can't believe noone has mentioned it. Zed amps are made in the U.S. and my God is the build quality horrible. My Zed Ra looks like it was put together by a bunch of first graders. I've heard lots of horror stories from other people, too.

And furthermore, a U.S. made Avionics company that I worked for had some of the worst quality control I've ever seen... This was class-2 safety-of-life stuff here, with little to no quality control (stuff going out the door to meet "shipping goals" with little to no concern for quality). 

I've worked in electronics and manufacturing all my life. 
*I don't give a crap where something is made.. **
It boils down to quality control and customer service. *
That's it. 
Full stop.

Anyone telling you otherwise is lying or ignorant.


**Edit: Oh... and treating your workers humanely and fairly. Yep, there's that.


----------



## n_olympios (Oct 23, 2008)

Neil_J said:


> *I don't give a crap where something is made..
> It boils down to quality control and customer service. *
> That's it.
> Full stop.
> ...


Here here.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Neil_J said:


> On another note.. Can't believe noone has mentioned it. Zed amps are made in the U.S. and my God is the build quality horrible. My Zed Ra looks like it was put together by a bunch of first graders. I've heard lots of horror stories from other people, too.


I'd bet lunch that Zed's new products don't meet the FTC's definition to qualify the "Made in USA" designation that he gives them. Assembled in the USA, I'll give him that, but Made in USA, I calling BS on that one!

EDIT: For reference what did Audiocontrol do? IIRC, they removed the "Made in USA" designation, even though they employ individuals who assemble their products here in the USA. Why? Because substantially all of the components are imported! Lots changed after the September 11 attacks regarding Made in USA.


----------



## Neil_J (Mar 2, 2011)

ChrisB said:


> I'd bet lunch that Zed's new products don't meet the FTC's definition to qualify the "Made in USA" designation that he gives them. Assembled in the USA, I'll give him that, but Made in USA, I calling BS on that one!.


The Google tablet tried to pull that one. Assembled in USA, yes, but ALL of the parts (circuit board assembly, display, case, etc) were manufactured in China. See why I say it doesn't really matter? *Unless you can trace it back to raw materials (like the U.S. Gov't tries to do), the world market is going to creep in SOMEWHERE.* And if it IS 100% made in this country, the only people rich enough to afford it will be the U.S. government. Not sure they spend a lot of car hifi stuff, but maybe I'm wrong 

Now if I were a small business trying to cater to a niche market: I'd prefer to do as much of the final assembly here in the U.S. to keep lead times down and to avoid getting screwed by the Chinese contract manufacturers who like turn their noses on the little guys. But even then, the parts will obviously be coming from overseas, so if you're that damn ethical, why the hell not just get out of the niche manufacturing business and go live in a Tibetan mosk? (not trying to be offensive here, I'd just about do it if I weren't such a nerd).


----------



## Sound Suggestions (Dec 5, 2010)

I've been cursed by the car audio bug for 24 years now (ouch) I have used countless different companies (lots of made in the USA old school companies from back in the day! And newer stuff) Rockford Fosgate (punch hd, dsm, power), Orion (SX, hcca) Phoenix Gold (ZX), Soundstream (Reference series), JL Audio (slash series v1, v2 lots of JL stuff), Pioneer, Alpine, Audison (lrx), arc audio (se stuff), Zapco, ADS, Macrom, audio control, Image Dynamics...I'm sure I forgot a few 

I can honestly say that the Hybrid Audio L3se and the L6se's are by far the best sounding speaker set that I have had the pleasure of owning. 

Also keep in mind that from all these "corporation" you'd be hard press to pick up the phone or send out an email to get in touch with one of their "directors or president". 2 years ago I sent an email to Scott and he replied the next day! I was blown away and now Scott has a customer for life in me.

I really don't care where the product is manufactured as long as I get my money's worth out of my purchase, sure Hybrid Audio are "one would say expensive" but then again Scott's clientele is one that is willing to spend more money to get a superior product...I have no remorse spend my hard earned money on high end Hybrid Audio products.

Congratulation on your success Scott! Your passion towards excellence is making my daily driving experience an enjoyable one! And for this I am grateful.

Sent from my iPhone using DIYMA


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Sound Suggestions said:


> I've been cursed by the car audio bug for 24 years now (ouch) I have used countless different companies (lots of made in the USA old school companies from back in the day! And newer stuff) Rockford Fosgate (punch hd, dsm, power), Orion (SX, hcca) Phoenix Gold (ZX), Soundstream (Reference series), JL Audio (slash series v1, v2 lots of JL stuff), Pioneer, Alpine, Audison (lrx), arc audio (se stuff), Zapco, ADS, Macrom, audio control, Image Dynamics...I'm sure I forgot a few
> 
> I can honestly say that the Hybrid Audio L3se and the L6se's are by far the best sounding speaker set that I have had the pleasure of owning.
> 
> ...


Scott is very accesible, and that alone made my decisions to buy my speakers this time from HAT. I sent him an email and he responded same day.

2 other people in the biz equally accessible...and helpful..eric stevens and manville smith.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Neil_J said:


> The Google tablet tried to pull that one. Assembled in USA, yes, but ALL of the parts (circuit board assembly, display, case, etc) were manufactured in China. See why I say it doesn't really matter? *Unless you can trace it back to raw materials (like the U.S. Gov't tries to do), the world market is going to creep in SOMEWHERE.* And if it IS 100% made in this country, the only people rich enough to afford it will be the U.S. government. Not sure they spend a lot of car hifi stuff, but maybe I'm wrong
> 
> Now if I were a small business trying to cater to a niche market: I'd prefer to do as much of the final assembly here in the U.S. to keep lead times down and to avoid getting screwed by the Chinese contract manufacturers who like turn their noses on the little guys. But even then, the parts will obviously be coming from overseas, so if you're that damn ethical, why the hell not just get out of the niche manufacturing business and go live in a Tibetan mosk? (not trying to be offensive here, I'd just about do it if I weren't such a nerd).


I'm good with _most_ of the labor and employees being American. There's no way to get a 100% American product anymore. We all know John at AE builds his speakers by hand in Wisconsin and some of the parts are sourced in this country, some are sourced from China. Anyone familiar with AE knows the quality control issues with shipments from China John faces all the time. I consider that a made in the USA product. Isn't there a certain percentage that legally qualifies it as "Made in the USA"? My Acura is built in Ohio with almost all American parts except for the engine. Headquaters are obviously in Japan but the car was designed in California. I'm kind of torn on that one. It employs American workers but a lot of the money goes overseas. 

If some products could guarantee that the majority of the labor was done over here, and at least half of the materials came from here, I would pay a premium for it. I would expect better QC as well. I do have a problem with outsourcing stuff from China, I've seen businesses go under because they decided to move manufacturing to China and after the first batch of product, the QC went to crap, some big structural changes were made without the owner's knowledge to save in materials. Some businesses have to do this to be competitive and I hear you're on your own if they ship you a bad batch. My front stage is made in Denmark. It's not the USA but it's not China. I have no worries whatsoever about QC and product consistency due to that fact.


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Thanks guys for your support. I have nothing to hide, and certainly haven't made it a point to muddy meanings in semantics and nomenclature. 

Look, EVERY company Hybrid Audio competes with manufactures at least SOME of its product in thirty party-owned build houses overseas in the Far East, and many build ALL of their product in said build houses. ALL of the manufactures mentioned by Manville Smith of JL Audio earlier in this thread do too. Who cares? We have already established that 500 or 1,000 speakers requires a few hours of processing from start to finish. These specialized machines are in many cases brand new, are well maintained, and have no idea what country they reside in, nor the nationality of the person pushing the button, so to speak. Hybrid Audio does NOT order speakers out of a catalogue or website and slap our decal on it, that's why we can say that we're the only USA-based high-end speaker manufacturer remaining (that we compete against). We can say this in good faith because we own many of the toolings for our various designs; no one else owns the right to manufacture the parts on many of our speakers (unless they outright steal them). Someone that orders speakers from a catalogue or website and puts their decal on it is nothing more than a rebadger, they are not a manufacturer. They don't maintain CAD/CAM expertise, in-house engineering, and in-house testing capability, among many other key fundamentals to truly be called a manufacturer, not just a label sticker. Those kinds of companies end up on Madisound or Parts Express; many times you can buy 'OEM equivalent' speakers on Parts Express for a fraction of the cost. You will find no such equivalents of HAT products. 

Manufacturer doesn't mean assembler - not always. Do you think all high-end home audio companies manufacture their own cabinets? Or vice versa, do you think all cabinet manufcaturers also manufacture their own speakers? I can tell you not. Hybrid Audio supplies OEM speakers for a high-end home audio 'manufacturer' that happens to build really great cabinets, but they don't build the speakers - we do (these cabinest retail at $60,000 a pair). This is true for MANY high-end home audio companies. And yet, no one seems to throw them on the cross for nomenclature discussions between "manufacturer" and "assembler." Nowhere in this thread did I say Hybrid Audio was "made in the USA." Read carefully my posts. 

So there you have it. I can assure you 99% of those reading this thread that at least one pair of speakers in your car were built at a third-party build-house in the Far East, even 'exotic' brand name speakers. Many of you own only speakers built in third-party asian build houses. And if they weren't, they were assembled using parts sourced from the same. It's one small world now.

Finally, there's nothing more I can say on behalf of HAT and virtually EVERY OTHER manufacturer of car audio equipment, including likely YOUR favorite brand. It's Sunday evening, and tomorrow starts a new week, and this will likely be my last post, as commerce carries out effective twelve hours from now. We do our best at HAT to bring our clients fresh, new designs, not rebadged derivatives, with world-class pre- and post-purchase support. There's not much more I can say, other than to ask those that still have a semantics argument to re-read all of my un-editted posts. Have a pleasant evening everyone.


----------



## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

This is a neat article on Dynaudio. Parts are made at their plant and assembled by humans in climate controlled clean rooms by some of the if not _the_ most sophisticated equipment/robots in the industry. This is one "exotic" brand that does most if not all manufacturing in house. Between the performance and incredible manufacturing process, reliability and consistency between products, the premium price is well justified. Not saying others aren't but a picture is worth a thousand words. You can look at the equipment, the cleanliness, and you know the standards are extremely high. This is not a case of huge mark up of a product that you can get elsewhere for much less. I thought people might like to see it, I would not mind working in the front office.

Jonathan Valin | JV Visits Dynaudio


----------



## Pitmaster (Feb 16, 2010)

Well put Scott.
'Nough said.
Good night Dr. Buvalda.


----------



## hirino (Aug 2, 2011)

scott, 
ive been trying to find some of your products to try just because ive never heard one bad review . with that said i could care less where they are made the bottom line is the product, and the customer service is key . also you offer a trade in value which is more than fair. the only reason im not a hybrid audio owner is i simply cant afford them .


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Neil_J said:


> The Google tablet tried to pull that one. Assembled in USA, yes, but ALL of the parts (circuit board assembly, display, case, etc) were manufactured in China. See why I say it doesn't really matter? *Unless you can trace it back to raw materials (like the U.S. Gov't tries to do), the world market is going to creep in SOMEWHERE.* And if it IS 100% made in this country, the only people rich enough to afford it will be the U.S. government. Not sure they spend a lot of car hifi stuff, but maybe I'm wrong
> 
> Now if I were a small business trying to cater to a niche market: I'd prefer to do as much of the final assembly here in the U.S. to keep lead times down and to avoid getting screwed by the Chinese contract manufacturers who like turn their noses on the little guys. But even then, the parts will obviously be coming from overseas, so if you're that damn ethical, why the hell not just get out of the niche manufacturing business and go live in a Tibetan mosk? (not trying to be offensive here, I'd just about do it if I weren't such a nerd).


My point is that Mantz may be making a false and misleading "Made in USA" claim. Why? I don't know, unless it is to go back to the glory days or something. Remember, I used to perform audits under the OMB, it's tough to let go of certain things.:laugh:


----------



## Neil_J (Mar 2, 2011)

ChrisB said:


> Remember, I used to perform audits under the OMB, it's tough to let go of certain things.:laugh:


OMB?


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Neil_J said:


> OMB?


Office of Management and Budget through the Federal Audit Clearinghouse. That was pretty much my specialty from 2004 to 2007 and someone would have to pay me a lot of money to do it again.


----------



## friction (Apr 24, 2008)

Scott Buwalda said:


> We don't collaborate with Tang Band.
> 
> We don't collaborate with HiVi Research anymore. We did pre-2008.
> 
> Yes, some parts are made by Errison. Most of it not complete assemblies and therefore are shown as such in tarrif invoices. Errison is more well-known for boxing and packaging and that's one of the stops on the journey.


Please specify boxing and packaging?

To my knowledge they are well known speaker manufacturer in China


----------



## friction (Apr 24, 2008)

Scott Buwalda said:


> *Errison is more well-known for boxing and packaging and that's one of the stops on the journey*.


I think you are confused Mr.Buwalda. Perhaps its the other way around 

Just my opinion, higher end drivers from erricson and Sets like Clarus from other company e.g "Great audio" in China .boxing and packaging in USA.This sounds more logical to me


----------



## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

I don't think Scott has claimed his company is building any speakers in the U.S. and he has been pretty clear about his supply chain and the origin of his products in general terms. It really isn't fair to ask Scott to divulge or discuss his specific suppliers on a public forum. This is proprietary to Scott's business. 

In today's loudspeaker industry, it is very difficult to make a product anywhere that does not include parts from all over the world, and Asia in particular. There are simply no magnet suppliers left in the U.S., nobody who will forge t-yokes, cast or stamp baskets or stamp top-plates at a reasonable price. Unless you're building some cost-no-object boutique product, you need to buy some of your parts on the global market. Some parts you can still buy from U.S. suppliers, like voice coils, spiders, cones, etc. You generally pay a premium for them, and in some cases that is well worth it. In others, it isn't. Some of the surviving U.S. speaker parts suppliers are only comfortable with basic processes and materials and use old equipment and techniques. There are cases where you will get a much better part, for less money, from an overseas source.

We manufacture loudspeakers in the U.S., and we clearly label them as "Manufactured in U.S.A. with imported and domestic components". This is the correct way of indicating origin for a product with a mix of U.S. and non-U.S. parts. We don't just put "Made in U.S.A." on the products. Other companies are looser with their labeling, and they may expose themselves to action from the FTC and Customs, but they tend to get away with it because enforcement efforts are a complete joke, for the most part.

Even the speakers we build in Germany use some Asian parts, as do almost all European speakers that I am aware of.

The bottom line is that all speaker companies seek to deliver the right value to their customer base, while making enough margin to cover overhead and have a little profit left over at the end of the year. It's not an easy business... there are many complications that can get you in serious trouble in a hurry... and if you don't mind the margins you will go out of business in a hurry, too. There are literally hundreds of defunct U.S.-based speaker companies. It ain't easy money... in fact, speaker companies have traditionally been a great way to turn a big pile of money into a little one.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I think the problem is this:

When people say they are a manufacturer, that is implying to people that you are making the products...as in maching, magnitizing, assembly of the soft parts, etc, not the physical designing of the product. There is physical labor taking place in the assembly and production of physical pieces of goods.

That's how I understand what manufacturing to mean.


----------



## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> I think the problem is this:
> 
> When people say they are a manufacturer, that is implying to people that you are making the products...as in maching, magnitizing, assembly of the soft parts, etc, not the physical designing of the product. There is physical labor taking place in the assembly and production of physical pieces of goods.
> 
> That's how I understand what manufacturing to mean.


Well, if that's how you want to define it, then there are a ton of companies that shouldn't call themselves manufacturers.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

That's just how I define it...and what I would think a common definition of it would be.


----------



## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> I think the problem is this:
> 
> When people say they are a manufacturer, that is implying to people that you are making the products...as in maching, magnitizing, assembly of the soft parts, etc, not the physical designing of the product. There is physical labor taking place in the assembly and production of physical pieces of goods.
> 
> That's how I understand what manufacturing to mean.


And therein lies the issue in general. Rarely does that happen yet that is the perception with most people. Not sure if I mentioned it on this forum, but there are several really big companies (Apple and Nike in particular) that don't actually manufacture their own goods, yet nobody would ever call them an "importer" or even not call them a manufacturer. They design and spec it, and some other company builds it for them. 

So technically they aren't really manufacturing, yet they aren't really importing either. To be fair, they are outsourcing. As politically incorrect as that word is...


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I agree.

But I am from an area where textiles and furniture used to be manufactured...as in the physical making something from something else. That's what I perceive manufacturing to be.


----------



## Neil_J (Mar 2, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> I think the problem is this:
> 
> When people say they are a manufacturer, that is implying to people that you are making the products...as in maching, magnitizing, assembly of the soft parts, etc, not the physical designing of the product. There is physical labor taking place in the assembly and production of physical pieces of goods.
> 
> That's how I understand what manufacturing to mean.


The mid-16th century meaning of that word would fit your description. In my opinion, the modern-day definition has been stretched to encompass much more than that, or a lot less depending on your point of view. For example:

Does Apple manufacture iPhones? (they contract Foxconn and others to do it, last time I checked)
Do Nvidia, Qualcomm, Altera, and Via manufacture semiconductors? (they use a Taiwanese foundry to do it).
Does Nike manufacture sneakers?

In some sense of the word, yes.. In others, no. Apple does own a LOT of tooling, and oversees the whole operation as if it were it's own plant. They just happen to contract out for the economics of it.. They coulda woulda built their own factory if the economy allowed it... They're damn capable of it.

Edit: lol, pocket5s beat me to it..


----------



## Neil_J (Mar 2, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> I agree.
> 
> But I am from an area where textiles and furniture used to be manufactured...as in the physical making something from something else. That's what I perceive manufacturing to be.


Lol, that's SO 20th century!


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

And I would never call any of those companies a manufacturer because they did not physically make the goods.

I would call them that if they owned the faclitites in which the goods were made.

I would call them a contractor and they had subcontractors to do the manufacturing of the goods.


----------



## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> And I would never call any of those companies a manufacturer because they did not physically make the goods.
> 
> I would call them that if they owned the faclitites in which the goods were made.
> 
> I would call them a contractor and they had subcontractors to do the manufacturing of the goods.


That's fair, but like Neil_J said, the term means different things to different people these days. And really most of them aren't really _wrong_.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I never said that.

I said part of the problem is coming from because people percieve the term manufacturer as someone who physically makes an end product good from other goods, there is labor being used there to do so. I see the design being seperate from the physical production of the end goods.

And it seems like a lot of other people in this thread do too.


----------



## Neil_J (Mar 2, 2011)

I used to read newspapers, books, and magazines printed on trees. 
Now I read all three of these on my phone, tablet, and laptop. 

These words now mean more than they did 100 years ago


----------



## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> I never said that.


never said what?



thehatedguy said:


> I said part of the problem is coming from because people percieve the term manufacturer as someone who physically makes an end product good from other goods, there is labor being used there to do so. I see the design being seperate from the physical production of the end goods.
> 
> And it seems like a lot of other people in this thread do too.


I understand that and it isn't technically wrong. One could get really detailed though and say "...makes an end product from other goods..." is an assembler. To put another way you could go so far as to say, well did they make the raw products too? the paper, did they use their own foundry to make the metal and then stamp out the basket. Did they mine up their own materials to make magnets. Make their own paint, their own rubber/foam for surrounds. No? Then they just assembled parts then! 

Or, even better, did they make the air and then thin it out from which is was pulled from? 

Really just depends on what level of detail you want to take it.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

That's analogous to saying GM or Honda are not car manufacturers because they do not produce their own raw metals, plastics, paint, leather, or rubber used in making their cars.

You are setting up a straw man arguement.




pocket5s said:


> never said what?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hirino (Aug 2, 2011)

man this thread seems like its more about people board @ this point wanting to argue .


----------



## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> That's analogous to saying GM or Honda are not car manufacturers because they do not produce their own raw metals, plastics, paint, leather, or rubber used in making their cars.


Exactly. To be "strict", they are only partial manufacturers. Some stuff they make, some they do not.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

From: jam [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 9:35 PM
To: me
Subject: [[email protected]]Inquiry from PA01 car audio speakers

Dear Me,

good day, many thanks for your reply and introduction! 

about the products, we can't make any Hybrid Audio speakers for you and anybody, because we promised make for Hybrid Audio only, of course the similar products can't make also, 

if you need the hi-end products, of course, we can develop the new one for you, what do you think?

BTW, in fact, I was an engineer many years, so, you can talk with me about any technologies, thanks!

if you have any questions, pls feel free to contact me anytime! thanks very much!

Best Regards
Jam Steven


At least theyre a loyal build house.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I guess it's all good and definitions are a changing for a global market.

Was just trying to help communicate what I thought a sticking point in this thread was about.


----------



## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

OK… Here is what Hybrid Audio is since we can’t agree on simple nomenclature. 

Hybrid Audio Technologies is a for profit corporation in Georgia, United States that dreams up really cool, cutting edge ideas and/or listens to our client base and their requested speaker solutions, evaluates preliminary engineering processes to take the “paper napkin” idea from concept to model, simulates the design via computer-aided modeling and solid works, devises possible parts lists using open-sourced items from around the world, models how said parts will work together to achieve the desired goal with a focus on moving mass, inductance, bandwidth, among many other factors, evaluates the necessity for tooled parts, and if tooled parts are required to design the same via CAD and solid works, coordinates and overseas prototype tooling of said parts (at considerable expense), and then hand-assembles alpha prototypes for testing. This process is then repeated several times over the course of up to several months. After three, four, six, even ten or fifteen iterations of a design, the device is ready for pre-production manufacturing within close tolerance. This is beta prototyping. The beta prototypes are built (at considerable expense) in triplicate usually, and are sent out to trusted sources for real-world testing. The test results come back and in many cases minor revisions and alterations are made. Another round of beta samples may be developed, or the existing samples altered to achieve the end result. The samples are sent back out and reviewed by trusted sources. The samples come back with final approval and are then put into our own vehicles for testing (often vehicles used in competition). Marketing then begins on the new product. Boxes are designed in house. All artwork is done in house. User’s manuals are written by me, personally. No one else in my company has any user manual authoring function. The user’s manual is then reviewed for accuracy both from a scientific standpoint, and also from a grammar and readability standpoint. The website is updated. Blasts are sent out on Face Book and Twitter. Price sheets are updated across the board to show an honest profit for the company. Videos are made of the new product. We then go final with the design, at which time we approach a reputable company with the technologies and certifications to glue our parts together, which we have sourced and have supplied to the build house. We then send a Hybrid Audio representative to stand there and oversee production, and oversee the testing of every speaker before it is put into a gift box. This same person then sees that the product is loaded into a container properly to avoid shipping damage. A bit later, we receive the product, inventory it, warehouse it, provide pre- and post-purchase support on that product (including fielding a wide variety of technical and sometimes very non-technical calls and e-mails, which we gladly engage in no matter what), and most important of all, warranty the product in the event of a failure. Speakers being a mechanical device – they do fail. How a company responds to that separates them from their competitors. 

All of the above for one speaker. Hybrid Audio has nearly 50 sku’s. So we repeat the above several times in any given day/week/month.

I know I missed a bunch, but you’ll need to pardon me. As the owner of my company, I just got done working from 7:15 AM until, well, right now, 8:00 PM at night. Why? Because it’s important to me. I am tired. And yet I sit on my living room couch typing an epistle. Why? What’s read on the internet about Hybrid Audio needs to be tempered with some honest-to-goodness truth straight from my mouth. I work HARD to build a fantastic product that is enjoyed by thousands of people around the world. It’s the most difficult, lowest-paid job I ever had (I make today what I made back in 1995 as a scientist). But I have the best job ever. It is incredibly fulfilling. It is my blood, sweat, and tears – and I can assure you that ALL THREE have been shed in the past seven years since starting this company. My meager salary puts food on my table and shoes my children. I make an honest living providing an exceptional product at what I consider to be a fair price for what you get performance-wise. So there you have it…we don’t glue our speaker parts together. But we do EVERYTHING else, in house, right here in Georgia. If that doesn’t make us a manufacturer considering all of the above stuff we DO do, then fine. Call us a speaker engineering, testing, R&D, prototyping, technology, support, and marketing firm…I don’t care. Fact is, low moving mass, low inductance, super wide-bandwidth Hybrid Audio products would NOT exist if it were not for me and seven other employees of Hybrid Audio and forty-some members of Team Hybrids that believe in creating the world’s finest car audio speaker systems.


----------



## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

So let me see if i get this right......................
you run a business. 

PERIOD.


----------



## Mako312 (May 10, 2010)

After see the dedication of one person making sure his company is represented right I might have to buy all Hybrid Audio.


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Mako312 said:


> After see the dedication of one person making sure his company is represented right I might have to buy all Hybrid Audio.


you wont regret it...in 30 years of buying something from almost every company that makes quality audio gear, I am very pleased with my first Hybrid purchase.

My current build is being dedicated to buying and doing things i have NEVER done before...and so far its coming out pretty nice.


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

People ask me all the time why I carry the brands I do or why I don't carry a particular brand. To me, the best customer service in the industry....from product knowledge to dealing with any warranty issues...these guys below are some of the best the industry has to offer!

Scott @ Hybrid, Emilios @ Dynaudio, Don Amann @ Rainbow, Don Gibson @ PHASS and Fred @ ARC. Any questions???


----------



## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

I think this has run it's course, so instead of leaving people the opportunity to run it off a cliff at some later point, it will be closed.


----------

