# Alpine 9886 + External HD



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

I have an alpine 9886 coming in the mail and I understand that it has USB drive capability. I'd like to hook up a hard drive to it to store lossless audio on and use it as my main source of music. 

My first question is what are my limitations here? I remember reading somewhere that you would need something like a laptop drive that consumes only .5amps or less. 

My second question is if I can't find a suiteable hard drive that has a low enough power draw, can I power it seperately from the head unit? If so, how do I accomplish this?

I searched for this but didn't come up with any results. I may just be a terrible searcher, I dunno. Thanks.


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

I will be doing the same exact thing with my Kenwood KAC-X791. I bought a Fuji 30GB usb drive on ebay cheap: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280193388617
I'm not sure what the current draw is, but it should be pretty low. And if it's not low enough, the included usb cable has a third plug which (I'm pretty sure) can be used for a separate DC power input. 

Keep in mind that my HU requires FAT32 formatting which, as I understand, limits you to about 30GB. Larger drives can be formatted in FAT32 with 30GB partitions I believe, but I don't think the HU will read all the sectors correctly if at all. 30GB isn't a lot of storage for .wav files, but I figured at the price I paid I could get a few and swap them in and out if needed. 
Scott


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

By the way, when I was researching HU's I don't remember the 9886 being compatible with lossless files. You might want to double check the owner's manual online before you pull the trigger. I only remember Kenwood, Pioneer, and MAYBE Eclipse being lossless compatible, but I may be wrong. And now the new 2008 Kenwoods are no longer lossless (.wav) compatible anymore.


----------



## HmoobVaj (Dec 20, 2007)

dewi1219 said:


> I will be doing the same exact thing with my Kenwood KAC-X791. I bought a Fuji 30GB usb drive on ebay cheap: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280193388617
> I'm not sure what the current draw is, but it should be pretty low. And if it's not low enough, the included usb cable has a third plug which (I'm pretty sure) can be used for a separate DC power input.
> 
> Keep in mind that my HU requires FAT32 formatting which, as I understand, limits you to about 30GB. Larger drives can be formatted in FAT32 with 30GB partitions I believe, but I don't think the HU will read all the sectors correctly if at all. 30GB isn't a lot of storage for .wav files, but I figured at the price I paid I could get a few and swap them in and out if needed.
> Scott


Actually FAT32 can support up to 2 TB partition sizes but the format tool in Win 2000/XP will not allow you to format partitions larger than 32GB. To get around this you have to format the drive in Win98 or WinME. I've seen people format 120gb drives in FAT32 just fine. Another limitation on FAT32 is that it can't support files over 2gb in size but if all you're storing is music files I doubt you'll encounter that problem.


----------



## MerlinWerks (Feb 4, 2008)

dewi1219 said:


> ...keep in mind that my HU requires FAT32 formatting which, as I understand, limits you to about 30GB. Larger drives can be formatted in FAT32 with 30GB partitions I believe, but I don't think the HU will read all the sectors correctly if at all. 30GB isn't a lot of storage for .wav files, but I figured at the price I paid I could get a few and swap them in and out if needed.


It's almost certainly HU dependent but my Pio 6000ub is good up to 250gb  




dewi1219 said:


> Actually FAT32 can support up to 2 TB partition sizes but the format tool in Win 2000/XP will not allow you to format partitions larger than 32GB. To get around this you have to format the drive in Win98 or WinME. I've seen people format 120gb drives in FAT32 just fine. Another limitation on FAT32 is that it can't support files over 2gb in size but if all you're storing is music files I doubt you'll encounter that problem.


You can use Swissknife to format FAT32 partitions >32gb from XP.

Then you'll probably need DriveSort to get all your files to display in alphabetical order. Most HU's don't have the horsepower to do much in the way of sorting and will display the files in the way they were written to the disk, which is typically _not_ in alphabetical order. Be sure and print out the DriveSort webpage because that serves as your instructions


----------



## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

In order to use a usb drive with the kenwood you have to use their included software, it has an itunes feel to it and you have to register the drive.(easy process) You create playlists and the head unit displays the songs in order of the playlist. mine are grouped by artist. it works really well on my little 6GB flash drive.


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

MerlinWerks said:


> You can use Swissknife to format FAT32 partitions >32gb from XP.


Sweet, thanks for the info! Now I should be able to swap my HDD for a larger unit and get my whole CD collection on it. I believe the one I have is just a 2.5" IDE unit in a USB case, so I should be able to just swap the drives out. Awesome.


JayBee said:


> In order to use a usb drive with the kenwood you have to use their included software, it has an itunes feel to it and you have to register the drive.(easy process) You create playlists and the head unit displays the songs in order of the playlist. mine are grouped by artist. it works really well on my little 6GB flash drive.


Thanks for the heads up. I haven't tried the software yet (my system is still being installed), but I have heard some negative reviews of it. But if it will let you do playlists it's worth it.


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

Thanks for the info. I looked in the manual on the alpine site and it doesn't meantion power limitations of the usb cable. Which sucks. Not to mention none of these stupid sites mention the power consumtion of the hard drives. Well not the sites selling the drives. Maybe the manufacturer's page will.


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

I checked several Western drives today, and they all showed a max draw of 500mA during read/write.


----------



## rekd0514 (Sep 24, 2006)

I really want to do this eventually. This would be way cheaper and better than buying an MP3 player for the same thing. I realy hope you are able get this up and running.


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

I'll check the drives later tonight when I get home. I will be pulling my 880 out in a few days to sell here. With iPod unit. My 9886 will be here wednesday so I'll probably have it installed next week. You can buy a SATA to USB adapter cable thingy so I could run a sata drive or you can also buy an IDE to USB so this should work great and I don't even have to for out the extra money for an external USB hard drive.


----------



## scrape (Feb 19, 2008)

Keep us updated, this would be a nice high quality alternative to buying a new(bigger) ipod


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

Here's a quick update for those of you who are interested. Curiousity got the best of me tonight, so even though my system isn't installed yet I temporarily hooked up my head unit to try it out with the HDD. Head unit is a Kenwood Excelon KDC-X791 and the hard drive is a 2.5" Fuji IDE 30GB in a portable usb case. I had already started ripping a few of my cd's to wav files using EAC, so I threw a few CD's worth of files on the Fuji and hooked everything up. To make a long story short, it worked like a charm. The Kenwood played the wav files without a hitch, and it sounded great (for what it is so far). Now that I know about Swissknife (thanks MerlinWerks), I'm ready to upgrade to a 120GB drive so that I can rip my whole cd collection to it. It's going to be great not having to swap discs out all the time. 

One thing I noticed was that when the files are playing from the HDD it will idle for about 4-5 seconds and then read for about 1 second back and forth constantly. This is to be expected, but I'm not sure how it will affect the long-term durability of the HDD. Only time will tell I guess. Also, note that the manual for the KDC-X791 states a maximum output current of 500mA through the USB, and almost all of the HDD's I've looked at have a maximum draw of 500mA during read/write, so you should check your head unit / drive combination to make sure they are compatible. Good luck.


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

Thanks for the update! I don't have a kenwood unit but my 9886 should be here today. I don't know when I'll get a chance to install it and hook up a drive.

How did you power your hard drive?


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

For me, the power through the head unit's usb was enough for the HDD. But like I said in my previous post, you should check your head unit and drive to make sure they will work together. Otherwise you may need a separate power source. 

By the way, were you able to confirm that the 9886 is compatible with lossless files? Maybe it is, but I thought I read somewhere that it wasn't. My Kenwood will do wav files but not windows media lossless or flac. I tried a WM lossless file just to make sure, and it did not work. The HU just skipped over it.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

dewi1219 said:


> I checked several Western drives today, and they all showed a max draw of 500mA during read/write.


Stop!!!!! The WD passport, if that's what you are looking at, is a POWER HOG and a 500Ma limited port WILL NOT WORK. I own one and it was VERY dissapointing to find out. Belkin hubs power them, really anything belkin, D-Link, nope, 50% of internal 2.0 cards, nope, many OEM ports on computers, Nope.


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

chad said:


> Stop!!!!! The WD passport, if that's what you are looking at, is a POWER HOG and a 500Ma limited port WILL NOT WORK. I own one and it was VERY dissapointing to find out. Belkin hubs power them, really anything belkin, D-Link, nope, 50% of internal 2.0 cards, nope, many OEM ports on computers, Nope.


The Scorpio was the line I was looking at. They are 2.5" ATA/IDE laptop drives that will just plug and play in my portable usb case. Do you know anything about these?


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

I haven't looked at any hard drives yet but I don't want to buy an external drive because they're a rip off. Are the laptop drives powered by the same connector that sends information?


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

dewi1219 said:


> The Scorpio was the line I was looking at. They are 2.5" ATA/IDE laptop drives that will just plug and play in my portable usb case. Do you know anything about these?


No, unfortunately, I was just giving fair warning about the passport, It's soooo perfect looking for the car is why I threw that out there.

Im suprised that more head units don't have either drives built in or more easy access to bulk storage.


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

> • Playback: MP3/AAC/WMA Playback


I don't even care if it plays WAVs as long as I can rip my music to high bit rate AACs or WMAs. As long as it's not 128bit mp3s I'm satisfied. As long as I never have to use another CD in my car again I'll be happy.


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

You're right. Mine will do up to 320kbps mp3's or aac's and up to 192kbps windows media. I think this is pretty standard(?) In a moving car it would be very difficult for me to tell the difference between a wav and a well-ripped 320kbps mp3.


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

I think it would be impossible actually.

Seagate Momentus laptop drive on newegg for $180. Seems like a good candidate for the project. But on their website it doesn't list power consumsion. 

Specifications 200 GB 
Model Number ST9200420AS 
Interface SATA 3.0Gb/s 
Cache 16 MBytes 
Capacity 200 GB 
Guaranteed Sectors 390,721,968 

PHYSICAL 
Height (max) 9.5 mm (0.374 inches) 
Width (max) 69.85 mm (2.75 inches) 
Length (max) 100.5 mm (3.975 inches) 
Weight (typical) 115 grams (0.254 pounds)

PERFORMANCE 
Spindle Speed 7,200 rpm 
Average latency 4.17 msec 
Random read seek time 11.0 msec 
Random write seek time 13.0 msec 
RELIABILITY 
Annual Failure Rate 0.68%


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

OK, well I just called up alpine. The guy seemed to know about it somewhat but not any specs which was a downer.

I asked him what the power output limit was for the USB and he didn't know but said that it was very minimal and running a hard drive would probably not work. So I told him I was hoping to run a laptop drive that has a very low power consumsion and he said that it would probably work. Then I asked him if he knew if the head unit had a size limit that it would recognize and he didn't know that either but said probably no bigger than 80GB. I doubt that's true but it could be. He said it would need to be formatted in FAT32 which we are already aware of and he said that he has heard of people trying to use 120GB and larger without success.

So, no specs. Lame. Didn't really help me at all. We'll have to figure this one out on our own. What's worse is the the stupid hard drive manufacturers aren't providing the power specs either. At least not Hitachi or Seagate. 

I'd love to buy a drive for $180 if I knew it was going to work but how do I know that without buying it and finding out for myself? If it doesn't work I'm out $180 because I have no use for a laptop drive. 

This kind of sucks now.


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

kimokalihi said:


> Seagate Momentus laptop drive on newegg for $180. Seems like a good candidate for the project. But on their website it doesn't list power consumsion.


According to the product manual on the Seagate site, the max current draw during read/write is 420mA. However, it states that the max current draw during spinup (startup) is 1.1 amps. This might be a problem, but I'm not sure. Many mfg's don't even state current draw for spinup.

Newegg has a decent return policy, don't they?


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

kimokalihi said:


> he said that he has heard of people trying to use 120GB and larger without success.


IMHO, I would not take his word on this. If someone tried a 120GB drive and it didn't work, it might have been because the drive draws too much current, wasn't formatted correctly, etc. It may have nothing to do with the size of the drive. It just seems that he isn't very well informed on the subject. Just my $.02. 

I'm going to try a 120GB because it is plenty for my collection and can be had for $80. 160GB is as big as I can go with my IDE adapter - I would have to switch to SATA to go bigger.

If you buy the 250GB and it doesn't work you could always sell it on ebay for about what you paid for it if newegg won't take it back.


----------



## rekd0514 (Sep 24, 2006)

It is amazing to me that manufacturers aren't making HUs capable of doing this and providing how to do so. This would be way more practical and less expensive than using an Ipod. I guess it all leads to making more money in the end. No one ever wants to come out with new and better technology if it is going to cause them to lose money. Even though the new way is way better. I guess people are just going to have to experiment with this stuff. You would think there would be many others who have tried this throughout the interweb.  I know I want to try this if I ever switch to a HU that has USB. It would be nice to not have CDs in the car at all and not have to use an MP3 player at all.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

rekd0514 said:


> It is amazing to me that manufacturers aren't making HUs capable of doing this and providing how to do so. This would be way more practical and less expensive than using an Ipod.



Oh, and probably for the maker to, does, say, alpine have to give apple money to make their chit iPod compatable? If apple ain't cashing in on that I'd be amazed!


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Well the biggest thing right now is the fact that the iPod is a large cheap flash drive, which is great as you all know for a moving environment, a spinning HD in a car like mine set on stiff coilovers is asking for trouble... 

That is the "stand still" i'm stuck on right now... how to get a reliable HDD in my car without killing it.. If I could get a nice flash type drive large enough without having to sell my dogs(children) I'd be happy...


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Well the biggest thing right now is the fact that the iPod is a large cheap flash drive, which is great as you all know for a moving environment, a spinning HD in a car like mine set on stiff coilovers is asking for trouble...


The laptop drive that I'm using is SUPPOSEDLY fairly shock-resistant. Since I only paid $30 for it on ebay I'm willing to risk it in the spirit of experimentation


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

dewi1219 said:


> The laptop drive that I'm using is SUPPOSEDLY fairly shock-resistant. Since I only paid $30 for it on ebay I'm willing to risk it in the spirit of experimentation


Heck yeah... that's a smoking deal... best I can tell, i'm no expert.. Link to more of the same???


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Heck yeah... that's a smoking deal... best I can tell, i'm no expert.. Link to more of the same???


This is it. Not a BIN, I just happened to win it for a cheap bid:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Fuji-30GB-Exter...photoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
It's only 30GB, but for the price it makes a good guinea pig. Plus if you upgrade later you can sell it for what you have in it or just keep it for photos/backup/etc.


----------



## turbotuli (Jan 30, 2008)

> Well the biggest thing right now is the fact that the iPod is a large cheap flash drive, which is great as you all know for a moving environment, a spinning HD in a car like mine set on stiff coilovers is asking for trouble...
> 
> That is the "stand still" i'm stuck on right now... how to get a reliable HDD in my car without killing it.. If I could get a nice flash type drive large enough without having to sell my dogs(children) I'd be happy...


Just FYI, only the iPod Nanos and Touch are flash based, which is why they're pretty limited in size. Although, the Touch is up to 32GB for the low low price of $499. The classic iPod still uses a mini hard drive. 
I wish more manufacturers would offer USB too, but everyone is _obsessed_ with iPods, so the rest of us suffer 
There are plenty of people running carPCs without reliability issues with their hard drives though...


----------



## GenPac (Oct 29, 2007)

I wonder if something like THIS would be compatible with a HU USB in... essentially it's an ATA to USB2.0 converter in an aluminum case for 2.5" HDDs.
Its says it supports bus power, so as long as you've got a 2.5" HDD that hasa max current draw of under 500mA, you should be good...


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

GenPac said:


> I wonder if something like THIS would be compatible with a HU USB in... essentially it's an ATA to USB2.0 converter in an aluminum case for 2.5" HDDs.
> Its says it supports bus power, so as long as you've got a 2.5" HDD that hasa max current draw of under 500mA, you should be good...


Yes, that's exactly what I'm using right now with my Fuji 30GB drive. Like I said before, it works like a charm so far.


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

Double post.


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

turbotuli said:


> Just FYI, only the iPod Nanos and Touch are flash based, which is why they're pretty limited in size. Although, the Touch is up to 32GB for the low low price of $499. The classic iPod still uses a mini hard drive.
> I wish more manufacturers would offer USB too, but everyone is _obsessed_ with iPods, so the rest of us suffer
> There are plenty of people running carPCs without reliability issues with their hard drives though...


Really, I thought ALL iPods were flash based HDs... something new learned..


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

dewi1219 said:


> Yes, that's exactly what I'm using right now with my Fuji 30GB drive. Like I said before, it works like a charm so far.


Something I just found for you(maybe for me to), not quite as cheap though... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220261


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

chad said:


> Oh, and probably for the maker to, does, say, alpine have to give apple money to make their chit iPod compatable? If apple ain't cashing in on that I'd be amazed!


I would have thought that apple would have to pay alpine. You know how many people are going to buy an iPod just to store a ton of music on it to play in the car to replace CDs? I guess it goes both ways, maybe neither is making money off the other. Alpine is using it because everyone wants an alpine to use the iPod on and Apple is happy because it sells more iPods.


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Something I just found for you(maybe for me to), not quite as cheap though... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220261


Newegg really sucks when it comes to specs. Bastards.


----------



## dtviewer (Dec 18, 2006)

Heres a link to some info about the 9886 and a 120 gig notebook drive. Crutchfield forums have a few links where people discuss which hd they are using.

http://community.crutchfield.com/forums/thread/20283.aspx


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

kimokalihi said:


> I would have thought that apple would have to pay alpine. You know how many people are going to buy an iPod just to store a ton of music on it to play in the car to replace CDs? I guess it goes both ways, maybe neither is making money off the other. Alpine is using it because everyone wants an alpine to use the iPod on and Apple is happy because it sells more iPods.



**** man, YOU and I are gonna owe apple money if you SAY iPod one more time


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Something I just found for you(maybe for me to), not quite as cheap though... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220261


I actually looked at those high-capacity flash drives before trying the HDD. But if the Western 120GB HDD will work, it's only $70 shipped. Four times the storage for half the money. Plus, one complaint about most of the large flash drives that I've seen is that the write speed is really slow.


----------



## grumpy (Mar 18, 2008)

i'm in the same boat with the HD's and the 9886. i have asked a few people who sell the HD's and the consensus is that you need to find a portable hard drive that has usb connections for data and a 2nd one for power. Iomega makes a series that does that plus the HD itself is encased in foam so it will protect it from bouncing around in the car. For the power you just need an inverter that matches the HD. The reason behind the external power supply is that the deck power can't provide enough to keep the disk spinning. Hope this helps and here's a link

http://www.iomega.com/direct/produc...&ASSORTMENT<>ast_id=63191&bmUID=1208415114847


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

dewi1219 said:


> I actually looked at those high-capacity flash drives before trying the HDD. But if the Western 120GB HDD will work, it's only $70 shipped. Four times the storage for half the money. Plus, one complaint about most of the large flash drives that I've seen is that the write speed is really slow.


Yeah, I read that to... BUT, write speed isn't what i'm concerned about, it could sit all night writing for all I care, it's READ speed that counts to me.. 

I just got a Email back from [email protected] about the audiophile collection he's put together, yeah, it's about 200g for 64 discs worth..   I was hoping to have the coomplete collection+ on HDD... so a mega gig drive is going to be the only way... sounds like my plans for a modded Xbox are going to be more and more of a viable option here in the future.. 

Tech is getting to the point where we shouldn't have to carry indivudual discs anymore, it's just a little while off..


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

Why do we even use discs anymore? They could be using flash memory for media now. You can store way more than CDs store and DVDs too. They're way smaller and they don't get scratched or skip. 

CDs are crap and I don't like them.


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> I just got a Email back from [email protected] about the audiophile collection he's put together, yeah, it's about 200g for 64 discs worth..


I don't want to argue with Steve, because he definitely knows his stuff, but AFAIK the capacity of a blank CD is only 700MB. So 64 discs X 700MB (if they were completely full) = 44.8GB. Not too bad.



Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Tech is getting to the point where we shouldn't have to carry indivudual discs anymore, it's just a little while off..


The time for me is now  I won't be carrying discs in my car anymore at all!


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

dtviewer said:


> Heres a link to some info about the 9886 and a 120 gig notebook drive. Crutchfield forums have a few links where people discuss which hd they are using.
> 
> http://community.crutchfield.com/forums/thread/20283.aspx


Sounds like a pain in the ass. That guy who used a 120GB drive says it plays the songs in order of when they were put on the drive. That's not cool. Same thing though when I burned MP3 cds for my pioneer 880. It would never play them in the order they were in on the CD but in some other order. Which was annoying but not too bad because I had each album in it's own folder or each artist in it's own folder.

Looks like the head unit has all sorts of folder limitations and file limitations. That sucks too I'll have to look at that again once I get my h701 installed and my c701 and the 9887 and buy a laptop drive.


----------



## MerlinWerks (Feb 4, 2008)

kimokalihi said:


> Sounds like a pain in the ass. That guy who used a 120GB drive says it plays the songs in order of when they were put on the drive.



From post #5:

...Then you'll probably need DriveSort to get all your files to display in alphabetical order. Most HU's don't have the horsepower to do much in the way of sorting and will display the files in the way they were written to the disk, which is typically not in alphabetical order. Be sure and print out the DriveSort webpage because that serves as your instructions


----------



## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

dewi1219 said:


> I don't want to argue with Steve, because he definitely knows his stuff, but AFAIK the capacity of a blank CD is only 700MB. So 64 discs X 700MB (if they were completely full) = 44.8GB. Not too bad.
> 
> 
> The time for me is now  I won't be carrying discs in my car anymore at all!


I didn't think about that... lol... But the question I asked him was "How much HD space does the collection take on the HD" and that was the answer.. Now, I donno if and what compression he might use to get the files on disc..


----------



## ZoNtO (Sep 20, 2005)

For ease of use and the benefit of quality, I really couldn't find a better solution than to rip CDs to Apple Lossless and put them on my 80gb ipod classic. I toyed with the idea of hard drive, but it just seemed too complicated.

What else is there beside lossless music? Whether it's on an ipod in ALAC or hard drive in .wav it ends up the same with our current technology, and ipods are so popular it didn't make sense to fight it. And yes, I swore years ago I wouldn't buy one too.... However, fitting 200+ CDs in lossless quality on an unobstrusive little black box that sits in my glove box that I can also take to class is awesome!

Only advantage I can see to a hard drive is price per gigabyte actually, everything else is more difficult to implement.


----------



## grumpy (Mar 18, 2008)

I was looking at a Western Digital Passport drive. But whatever drive you decide to go with, it needs to have a 2nd usb power input so you can use external power. This is because the HU doesnt provide enough power to spin the disc. Reason I was looking at the Iomega Ego was because of the anti vibration that is built in. Vibration is very bad for hard drives. So as long as the drives has the above features, it should work well.


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

A small update - I got a larger 80GB Fuji drive to go in my HDD USB enclosure. I formatted the drive with Swissknife just like Merlinwerks suggested, and it worked great. This drive works fine with only the usb power from the head unit just like the old drive did. So no external power source needed. The only problem I had was after I tried sorting the folders on the drive with Drivesort. For some reason it added a bunch of files to the drive with filenames made up of symbols instead of letters, so the Kenwood wouldn't read the files. It just kept saying "reading" and never worked. Maybe I did something wrong in Drivesort(?) But I couldn't delete the files, so I had to re-format the drive and copy the folders back over. Then it worked fine again. There must be a way to sort the folders correctly, I'll just have to keep trying.

I really like the way the KDC-X791 navigates the folders on the drive. Once you figure it out it's pretty quick and easy to use. And the display is very customizable too. Since I'm using only wav files I don't have any tags, but the display will let you show the folder name, file name, elapsed time, etc. so it works out fine. And by the way, I did NOT use the Kenwood Music Editor. I tried it for a few minutes but it was not very intuitive and really just made things more difficult. I just arrange my folders by Artist->Album->Tracks and it works great.


----------



## rekd0514 (Sep 24, 2006)

Great news thanks for the update.


----------



## MerlinWerks (Feb 4, 2008)

dewi1219 said:


> The only problem I had was after I tried sorting the folders on the drive with Drivesort. For some reason it added a bunch of files to the drive with filenames made up of symbols instead of letters, so the Kenwood wouldn't read the files. It just kept saying "reading" and never worked. Maybe I did something wrong in Drivesort(?)


I'm certainly no expert, but is there anyway you can figure out which files it messed up? Maybe there is something corrupt in the filename, funky punctuation, too many spaces or something like that.


----------



## Kai Winters (Apr 28, 2007)

My Alpine iDA-x001 has no problems with my WD Passport 160gb hdd. It does take a few seconds...around 10...to access the folders...all my cd's are in their own folders...but once accessed it plays every song immediately.
Using a usb drive is even faster but size limited. 
My JVC KD-AR770...also a usb hu...will play some but not all usb drives. It will not access the newest...fastest...PNY Attache Optima Pro but will read my other, slower usb's. It also will not read the hdd at all...just hangs.

Best bet is to read the owner's manual and make use of forums...as you have.
Keep us informed on what you do and how it works out for you.


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

The owners manual doesn't really cover this topic. It covers iPod and USB but not a hard drive.


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

After doing more research I'm beginning to think this is more work than it's worth. Hopefully I'm wrong.

It seems as though the only way to get this to work is buying one of these SATA to USB converters but none of the ones I've been able to find will actually power the hard drive via the USB from the head unit. So therefore you would need to use the external power source that comes with the USB converter but that needs an AC power source so you also need to buy a power converted. Well that didn't seem like tooo big of a problem but it has an on/off switch so you'll have to turn that on and off every time you get in and out of the car, right? That means it's gotta be accessible and I don't want it anywhere where it's within reach of me because that means more modifications or being able to see it. 

Please let us know how you did yours. The iPod solution is so simple...uh oh!


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

kimokalihi said:


> It seems as though the only way to get this to work is buying one of these SATA to USB converters but none of the ones I've been able to find will actually power the hard drive via the USB from the head unit. So therefore you would need to use the external power source that comes with the USB converter but that needs an AC power source so you also need to buy a power converted. Well that didn't seem like tooo big of a problem but it has an on/off switch so you'll have to turn that on and off every time you get in and out of the car, right? That means it's gotta be accessible and I don't want it anywhere where it's within reach of me because that means more modifications or being able to see it.


Well, I don't know about SATA converters, but my ATA to USB converter powers the drive just fine. If you don't already have an HDD, you could go with an ATA / EIDE drive instead of SATA since I know they work (assuming your 9886 provides at least 500mA through the usb like my Kenwood does).


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

Could you show me your converter then? I didn't think these pc drives were designed to be run without a seperate power plug? I didn't think they'd work without the power plug hooked up? 

There's still hope!


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

kimokalihi said:


> Could you show me your converter then? I didn't think these pc drives were designed to be run without a seperate power plug? I didn't think they'd work without the power plug hooked up?
> 
> There's still hope!


I'm not running a PC drive. I'm using an ATA 2.5" laptop drive. The laptop drives are designed for low power consumption to maximize battery life. I haven't looked at the PC drives much, but I think you're right - I believe the current demand is higher for them than the laptop drives.

This is the unit I bought. It was a 30GB drive with the enclosure and ATA to usb adapter built in. Then I got the new 80GB ATA HDD and swapped it into the enclosure/adapter for more storage. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280193388617


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

That auction had no working pictures. The reason you can do that I believe is because you're using the housing that you put the drive in that probably has the plugin for the power and the other plugin for ata, right? Then it gets the power from the USB. 

I don't want to use the enclosure thingy, I just want the drive. I was talking about laptop drives, didn't meant to say PC.


----------



## dewi1219 (Nov 16, 2006)

kimokalihi said:


> The reason you can do that I believe is because you're using the housing that you put the drive in that probably has the plugin for the power and the other plugin for ata, right?


Yes, I am using an aluminum enclosure, but there is only one plug that connects to the drive.


----------



## just*rollin (May 16, 2008)

hello everybody i am new to the site. i recently bought the 9886 and tried using my WD passport 160gb hd. followed the recommendations for the folder and all that. when i pluged it in (just one usb, for power and data) the hd light came on and i heard it spinning. a couple of seconds later the hu said "device error". i have been reading this thread and wondering if anybody could shine in. any thoughts. maybe a Y-usb cable and a 12v usb chargerthanks


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

I haven't tried it yet so I'm not sure what it could be. Have you formatted it in FAT32 format yet? It may be drawing too much power for the head unit. I believe the limit is .5 amps.


----------



## Kai Winters (Apr 28, 2007)

The WD Passport is FAT32 from the factory.
It is possible that the hu is not able to power it.
That's too bad. My iDA-x001 powers my Passport 160 without a problem.
Hope it works out for you.


----------



## just*rollin (May 16, 2008)

yeah it's formatted in FAT32. not to sure about the power issue, it lights up and spins just like on my computer. so i don't know i am out of ideas and a little bummed, the usb feature is pretty much why i bought it.


----------



## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

I feel for you man. That's the only reason I bought mine too! Haven't had time to install my system let alone buy a hard drive and I'm having a rough time finding a drive too. I don't want to power one externally, I want it to take power from the USB connection and I can't find a hard drive that has both connections going to a USB. I found adapters that would plug into the SATA connector and turn it into USB but it still had a seperate power supply for it so I didn't think it would power the drive through the USB.


----------



## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Although it has been said before - it warrants saying again. Thanks! These programs will be extremely useful to me - a real lifesaver.... 

THANK YOU Thank You, Thank you very much!
Jim/Less



MerlinWerks said:


> It's almost certainly HU dependent but my Pio 6000ub is good up to 250gb
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## less (Nov 30, 2006)

BTW - if you own a Clarion DRZ9255 and don't want to sell it but still want to use a hard drive based system, I wrote a post in this forum today about a system I will be posting a review on next week. I fooled the 9255's optical input into taking the optical input off my home cd player today - so now I am buying a hard drive based media player that has a digital output and will be running that through the optical input - USING THE CLARION D/A converter!

Don't want to retype the whole thing here, but trust me that I've spent a lot of time on this and have only found one hd media player that supports the functions an audio person would want - most are really designed for video lovers. This thing is designed to be portable and is really perfect for a car - much like an oversized ipod with a digital out.

Once I am comfortable that it all works well together I will give complete details... and I am VERY excited to get rid of my CD mess, so it won't be long now at all! You will have to be a little bold though and comfortable doing things like cutting that $100 fiber optic cable that runs between your changer and your head unit 

I love this thread, but I really don't want to go through the hell of buying and installing an Alpine head unit and the processor... as I have really grown to love my Clarion. Its great that Alpine is being so customer oriented though in coming up with new ideas of how to make listening funner for us drivers. Clarion could learn a ton from them about customer service and R&D... I don't think the DRZ has changed in many years...

Enjoy your new toys folks!

Jim/Less


----------



## dmazyn (Apr 29, 2008)

I just tried a simpletek 160 gig harddrive with the 9886 and it powered up and started reading the drive, but it seems the 9886 can not read the apple lossless format from itunes so going to try another format.

I wish it read wav


----------



## just*rollin (May 16, 2008)

dmazyn said:


> I just tried a simpletek 160 gig harddrive with the 9886 and it powered up and started reading the drive, but it seems the 9886 can not read the apple lossless format from itunes so going to try another format.
> 
> I wish it read wav


that sucks dude. but keep us posted on any progress, please.


----------



## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

I spoke with Alpine about the same issue. Thoug nobody wants to hear this (and I'm not sure why this would be anyway) the add-on USB interface will manage power better. Still, alpine has stated 500ma draw to be it's limit. Also, anything with just one platter should work regardless of size. The mulitple platters issue means that more current and more processing is necessary limiting it's abilities. The rep stated that the add-on will "manage power more efficiently" but that 500 ma is the top limit regardless. Isn't that funny. 
With the CDA-9887, you need the add-on anyway which is what I'm considering.



http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product_acc.php?model=KCA-620M


----------



## joejjeman (Jun 3, 2008)

Hey..iam from sweden and my english is really bad i think.. i wonder if you guys who have succed with a hardisk to your 9886 couldnt tell us..which vendor or model of the hardisk? i already before have a WD passport that i tried but doesnt work.. so if someone knows a working solution please post it..


----------



## diekuhe (Jun 8, 2008)

joejjeman said:


> Hey..iam from sweden and my english is really bad i think.. i wonder if you guys who have succed with a hardisk to your 9886 couldnt tell us..which vendor or model of the hardisk? i already before have a WD passport that i tried but doesnt work.. so if someone knows a working solution please post it..


Halsingar from Finland Sorry my swedish... And Hi everybody!

I think too that it would be great if we have some kind of list portable hard disks, which work on alpine 9886! So, should we start listing working hard drives in this topic or what?

I did buy WD passport essential 320(inside scorpio sata disk). Also I know alpine has to be knowledge what are power consumption limits for external hard disks, so why they don't inform us. I know next monday, when I get Alpine, does WD work or not. I have bad feeling about that. 

If WD won't work, I have backup plan in my pocket. I trying to get low power 2,5" laptop drive and put it to external case. One good www-site is
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/hard-disks/workstation-i-o-benchmark-pattern,693.html. And there is listed for example how much drive consumes on idle or the maxium stress. My WD passport essential isn't so low power, so I'm quite sure that that wont work on alpine. I notice that certain Samsung and fujitsu drives looking good on sizes 100-160 gigabytes.


----------



## joejjeman (Jun 3, 2008)

WD wont work.. i have before a WD passport 250gb to my laptop but get "device error"


----------



## dmazyn (Apr 29, 2008)

The HD I was using that did power up but died before I could get any songs to play was the SimpleTech 

SimpleTech - Signature Mini 160GB External Hard Drive - Dark Blue Blueberry
Model: FS-U25/160BB.

I went with an Ipod classic 80Gig using WAV format becasue if the drive died this quick I did not want to risk running it again. Might of been a defective drive but ohh well. 

Now a strange thing is happening with the IPOD classic, if I have more than 20 Gigs on the Ipod the 9886 gets an error 01 (communication error). Keeping it under 20 gigs and it works fine.


----------



## diekuhe (Jun 8, 2008)

Ok, WD wont't work, I tested it. WD starts to spin but soon alpine flashes "device error". Other device what I did test with alpine was normal laptop 40 GB fujitsu hd+external hd-box with external power cord(usb). First the fujitsu did start to spin but same device error exist. I bought also usb-recharger and used that to give extra power to fujitsu. But no help.

Both drives are formated to fat32 with swissknife. 

I tryed to find out what laptop drive is inside of SimpleTech - Signature Mini 160GB External Hard Drive, but google don't know that 
It would be helpfull if somebody know, what is the laptop drive inside of simpletech.

That 20 gb limit sounds weird, but I have to test it myself, maybe this is the limit what Alpine can handle. But I still believe the problem is lack of power when using 2,5"-hard drives.


----------



## just*rollin (May 16, 2008)

diekuhe said:


> Ok, WD wont't work, I tested it. WD starts to spin but soon alpine flashes "device error". Other device what I did test with alpine was normal laptop 40 GB fujitsu hd+external hd-box with external power cord(usb). First the fujitsu did start to spin but same device error exist. I bought also usb-recharger and used that to give extra power to fujitsu. But no help.
> 
> Both drives are formated to fat32 with swissknife.
> 
> ...


so your saying that you bought a usb car charger and used it with a y-cable and it still didn't work?


----------



## diekuhe (Jun 8, 2008)

Yes, and its weird, I though that extra power would help because without that hd did start to spin, but no extra power didnt help and that is something what I cant understand. 

Usb charger output is 650 mA and Alpine gives 500 mA??? But anyway it wont work...device error flashes screen. I Did test that drive with formating only 10/40gb with fat32 but no help. And drive is 5400 rpm.

Maybe the hard drive has to be ultra low consuming edition to get it work...

In some web pages somebody told that Hd should be only 4200 RPM not 5400. But who knows. Im waiting information for those Hd:s which will work with Alpine 9886R. I really hope there are models that works ok. 4Gb stick is getting too small for me.


----------



## just*rollin (May 16, 2008)

well i gave up trying to make my wd passport harddrive work. i tried splitting it to 60/100gb(it's a 160gb model), 40gb and the rest unformatted. everything. i bought a usb car charger and a Y usb cable and that didn't work either. so i just bought a 4gb thumb drive. has anybody had any better luck getting a portable harddrive to work? i'm pretty bummed about the whole thing


----------



## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

just*rollin said:


> well i gave up trying to make my wd passport harddrive work. i tried splitting it to 60/100gb(it's a 160gb model), 40gb and the rest unformatted. everything. i bought a usb car charger and a Y usb cable and that didn't work either. so i just bought a 4gb thumb drive. has anybody had any better luck getting a portable harddrive to work? i'm pretty bummed about the whole thing


I'm sorry for you. No. I haven't. I actually have nothing of real value to add but where in "deep south texas" I don't wanna compromise your posisition or anythign, I'm from Corpus Christi. So was just saying hi. Also, look on the bright side of things (something I've considered) your 4 gigabyte thumb drive was what? 30$? Fill it with all your hard driving rockin assed songs. buy another, put your few songs that you burned at the full bitrate (hopefully you burned them all like that, just being hypothetical here, ya know?) any way, you got these cheap, small, WAY MORE durable than cd's. If there was some way I could put lossless files onto anything other than an ipod I would do it.....but you cAn't whcih is why the hard drive and usb was out for me. Since this is the route you have chosen, look on the bright side. You could buy one every few months throw those suckers in your console and go, run an extension usb cable so there is a classy place to plug it in...

I know, I'm just trying to cheer you up. Sorry about your harddrive


----------



## just*rollin (May 16, 2008)

aworldcollision said:


> I'm sorry for you. No. I haven't. I actually have nothing of real value to add but where in "deep south texas" I don't wanna compromise your posisition or anythign, I'm from Corpus Christi. So was just saying hi. Also, look on the bright side of things (something I've considered) your 4 gigabyte thumb drive was what? 30$? Fill it with all your hard driving rockin assed songs. buy another, put your few songs that you burned at the full bitrate (hopefully you burned them all like that, just being hypothetical here, ya know?) any way, you got these cheap, small, WAY MORE durable than cd's. If there was some way I could put lossless files onto anything other than an ipod I would do it.....but you cAn't whcih is why the hard drive and usb was out for me. Since this is the route you have chosen, look on the bright side. You could buy one every few months throw those suckers in your console and go, run an extension usb cable so there is a classy place to plug it in...
> 
> I know, I'm just trying to cheer you up. Sorry about your harddrive


well thank you for your sympathy. i live in mission, east of mcallen. yeah a friend of mine has been harassing me. just get an ipod he says. oh and the 4gb stick was $19.99 yeah baby thank goodness for the sunday paper!!


----------



## joejjeman (Jun 3, 2008)

i bought a 32gb usb corsair voyager.. 32gb is enough for me


----------



## ben805 (Aug 26, 2008)

USB flash drives are so cheap nowadays why not get a few 8GB or 16GB? they're small and easy to transport, nothing mechanical to wear out like the HDD...


----------



## TrickyDIck (Aug 22, 2008)

Been looking at this this issue for a while now.

Think that the user who has a 650mAs charger may not be getting enough juice to the drive for spin up. May need a touch more.

There are some 160GB 1.8" 4200 drive available, but they're expensive $250+
There are some nice 2.5" drive with low power consumption, and high durability (see the iomega website for detail).

I am wondering if its better to find a HDD with a separate input for power than just the USB.

I may try hooking up my regular desktop external 500GB drive (twin 250GB 3.5" drives in RAID0) with its own separate supply to the W505 that's not installed yet - just to see if this will work. I have a 12 volt power supply I can use to power the W505. ** Nope this isn't going to work since my drive is NTFS ***

If this does work, then I may go for the gusto and find a smaller portable 500GB drive to see if I can get it to work the same way.

Next question - and really the point to all this is apple lossless. W505 claims to play AAC. ANyway, this is on a different thread. Without need or desire for lossless compressed audio files, need for huge HDD space is moot.

TD


----------



## jonny987 (Aug 16, 2008)

Sorry if I'm OT, because I haven't read the whole thread but I just wanted to say I'm using an external HDD with my 9886i and it seems to work so far. I bought the lowest consumption 2.5" hard drive I could find (ended up being some 5400rpm 120GB panasonic i think) and a cheap little caddy for it. I also got one of these:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP3042&CATID=&keywords=usb+cigarette&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=
and hardwired it in behind my centre console to the cigarette lighter and plugged the USB Y-cable into it and the other end of the Y-cable into the HU. It powered up fine (wouldn't power up without external power) and even read all 247 folders on the hard drive even though there's emant to be a limitation of around 100 according to the manual (I did have one folder with 200 songs and only 100 of them were read however).

I also read somewhere that passport's don't work particularly well in this application because they are a power hog (sometimes won't even work on computers without the second USB plugged in for power).

I used a program called swissknife to format the harddrive into FAT32 and a program called drivesort to sort the folders alphabetically (otherwise the HU reads the folders in the order they are written to the drive which is a pain in the ass when you have 120GB of music on it )

Hope this helps someone


----------



## mongie (Feb 25, 2009)

Hey, I saw you were having the same issues as me, so I thought I might let you know how i solved it.

I have an Alpine 9884 head unit, and I've been using a 4GB flash drive for the first few weeks of having the head unit, but I recently bought a 250GB Fujitsu HDD + Enclosure pack, and discovered that with USB only, the drive wouldn't work.

I went and bought a ciggarette lighter > USB adapter and plugged in the second power cable for the HDD, thinking that it was just a power thing... and suprise suprise, it still didn't work.

I also bought a cigarette lighter "powerboard" from ebay, which also happened to have a USB port on it. This didn't work with the HDD either

I then decided that I would go on eBay and buy a couple of other enclosures cheaply, and see if any of them would work.

The HDD I had was a Fujitsu, and I recently noticed that it drew 600mA of power, obviously more than 1 usb port can supply, so I expected I was going to have some trouble finding an enclosure that would work.

I bought two different enclosures from ebay cheaply, and they have arrived over the past couple of days, the first used a mini-USB port on the HDD and had a USB Y cable on the other side.

This wouldn't work either.

I then happened to get an e-mail from Zazz (which is a "one product a day" online store) that was advertising a 75w cigarette lighter inverter. It was only $20 and i thought it might be useful anyway. I paired it up with my 3.5" usb HDD. This didn't work either.

Now just today, I received the second of my e-bay enclosures. Weirdly, this one usees a regular USB port on the HDD, and two USB ports on the head unit side. 

AMAZINGLY, this one works. But weirdly, it only works with one of the USB ports plugged in. If I try and give it more power, it doesn't seem to work?

so there you have it, if you have a 2.5" SATA hdd, go on ebay and buy yourself a caddy that uses a regular USB-A plug on the HDD, and see if it will work for you.

(Also, thanks for the drivesort tip. I originally came here looking for that tool)


----------



## MerlinWerks (Feb 4, 2008)

mongie said:


> (Also, thanks for the drivesort tip. I originally came here looking for that tool)


See Post #5 of this thread


----------



## mongie (Feb 25, 2009)

Yes, thats the post I was refering to. Thanks.


----------



## andyshum (Dec 28, 2009)

My 9886 cannot recognize 16 GB USB Flash Drive. I tried with SanDisk Cruzer and Verbatim and the screen always show Error. It could however recognize my old Sony USB flash drive which is only 256 MB. Anyone facing similar issues or have any other brand of 16 GB USB flash drive that works with 9886?


----------



## avalan (Oct 5, 2010)

I have a root cause of HDD not working in Alpine Headunit.

My model is 117e
i use 2.5" external HDD with Y-USB connector.
My situation is power supply from HU alone is enough to spin the disk.
but the display keep telling Error02 or No USB.
(like many people here reporting).

I issue, in my case, is that Alpine HU didn't send a drive wake up signal.

When first connect, the drive spin, but no read.
This is where the HU report error. (at this state the drive spin but the HU already recognize this USB as not-working).

My procedure to successfully make all this work is.
1. I use Y USB connector to connect 5V from another source (cigaratte lighter USB Power Source)
2. I disconnect the USB connector from HU. (alternate source to keep state of HDD's spinning, but disconnect HU-USB to reset the status that HU remember with this drive).
3. Reconnect HU-USB.

That's it.
With this procedure, the drive is pre-spin and ready to communicate when the head unit try to take to.

It's just a proof but not practical in real life.
...Back to ipod or Flash Drive.


----------

