# Buy Local = Buy Authorized



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

This is going to be pretty long, so I want to put this disclaimer right up front. My preference is to buy local whenever possible and practical (and not just in car audio). I find, as I think most do, that sometimes this just does not make sense. 

In the past couple of weeks I have been to 6 different local car audio shops. My reason for the visits were two fold. First, I wanted to see what each shop carried and the quality of their work and second I am interested in a head unit for my wife with a couple of specific features. (I also have specific models in mind.) The following is what I found at each of the half dozen shops...

*Shop 1:*

*Brands:* Image Dynamics, Pioneer (HUs), Kenwood (HUs), Infinity, Kicker
*Authorized Dealer:* No
*Showroom:* Random product on shelves, no display/demo board, very little stock
*Portfolio:* None available

*Details:* 
This is a brand new shop I drive by every day that just opened up in the last couple months. It appears to be a solo operation and the owner said he had no desire to do "big" installs. Big being anything more than "deck and fours" or a sub or two in pre-fabbed boxes. He is not an authorized dealer for any of the product that he sells. In the short time he has been open he now has signs out front stating that they also do oil changes and tire service. When I spoke with him, he was still setting up shop and wasn't even really able to quote me prices. 

The impression that I got was that the owner was not extremely knowledgeable and had just chosen car audio as an arena for lots of customer turn over to try and make a quick buck. 

*Shop 2:*

*Brands:* Polk Audio, Phoenix Gold, Pioneer (HUs), Kenwood (HUs), JVC (HUs), (Formerly Image Dynamics and Boston Acoustics)
*Authorized Dealer:* Yes
*Showroom:* None / Under Construction - Apparently not a priority, not a lot of stock
*Portfolio:* Available, quality work

*Details:*
This is a pretty well established shop that has been around for 6-7 years. From what I have seen they sell only products for which they are authorized. Pricing is right at retail, if not a little high for installation accessories (dash kits, etc.). The owner has been willing to be flexible on pricing compared to online vendors. He will not lose money on a deal though, and rightly so. He will be up front about it and has even told me that if I could get certain products at lower prices than he can provide that I should go ahead and do it. 

They perform all types of work from the basic deck and four up to full custom installations with fiberglass and custom machine parts. I have had them fabricate enclosures, baffles, etc. for me in the past when time or tools did not allow for me to do them myself. They provide good customer service and seem to be quite knowledgeable. For those things that are not their strong suit, I know that they will bring in outside help (such as product reps) to assist them. 

*Shop 3:*

*Brands:* JL Audio, Mosconi, Focal, Pioneer (All but Stage 4), Kenwood (Full line, including eXcelon), Arc Audio, Massive Audio (Formerly Alpine)
*Authorized Dealer:* Yes
*Showroom:* Best in the area - Multiple demo boards and lots of products on display. Quite well stocked
*Portfolio:* Available, quality work

*Details:*
This is likely the oldest (~30 years) and most well known shop in town. They have had their ups and downs, including a previously shady reputation. This doesn't appear to be an issue now. They are an authorized reseller for everything that they sell and are very quick to point that out. Their pricing is usually AT LEAST MSRP and often times even more! They are proud of what they sell and the work that they do and it is reflected in the price. Finding a "deal" in this shop is quite rare. I was informed at my last visit that they no longer sell Alpine because the dealer rep just plain quit showing up. 

Customer service is hit and miss, even from the same salesman. I've found the best bet is to play to some level of "dumb" and let them sell you on a specific product you ask about. They aren't really into BS'ing, but do become quite arrogant or defensive if you exhibit to much knowledge of car audio. They will give you their honest opinion, but are constantly looking for the up-sell. On my last visit I looked on as they sold a guy on $400 (MSRP) worth of low end Pioneer deck and four for $800 out the door installed. 

They do provide quality work, but at a premium. Years ago, these were the guys that I had install my very first car stereo. I'd have a very hard time paying them to do work for me now, even if it was work beyond my own abilities. 

*Shop 4:*

*Brands:* JL Audio, Pioneer (HUs), JVC (HUs), Kicker, Absolute, Infinity, no name junk
*Authorized Dealer:* No
*Showroom:* Random product on shelves, no display/demo board, very little stock
*Portfolio:* None available

*Details:*
This is another new shop that recently opened up a couple months back. Apparently they have another shop about 40 miles away that has been around "for over 15 years." When I asked what type of work they did most (SQ, SPL, deck and four, etc.) his response was, "We do everything. Mostly JL. I asked if was an authorized JL dealer and he said no. Turns out he wasn't an authorized retailer for any of the product he carried. He did say that whatever I wanted, he could order. His pricing on what I did ask about was right at retail. 

*Shop 5:*

*Brands:* Kicker, Infinity, Arc Audio, Pioneer (HUs), Kenwood (HUs), Hifonics, Crunch
*Authorized Dealer:* No
*Showroom:* Product on shelves, no display/demo board, very little stock, slightly better than the worst examples
*Portfolio:* None available

*Details:*
Communication here was a bit rough, as I ended up speaking to the owner through his wife/girlfriend/baby momma (yes, he held the baby while we talked) who acted as a translator. Most of the questions I asked were answered by the woman who just regurgitated the pictograms on the head unit boxes. I got the distinct impression that most, if not all, of the product that they has was unauthorized. 

*Shop 6:*

*Brands:* Digital Designs, Polk Audio, Renegade, RE Audio, JVC (HUs)
*Authorized Dealer:* Some Brands
*Showroom:* One small counter and wall in the install bay, random products
*Portfolio:* None available

*Details:*
I almost missed this shop as I drove by as it is just a single by door in a small industrial park next to an auto shop. They had very little product and no work going on. There were three guys there "working" though. There was no vehicle in the install bay/showroom. The owner stated that they were an authorized Digital Designs dealer, but I got the impression they weren't authorized for much else. Most of what he had, was in ones and twos and was completely random, save for a wall filled up with DD amps. 

The quotes I got were at MSRP and the owner stated that he could get whatever I wanted. I would just have to pay him up front and then he would order from whichever of his distributors could get the product. 

*My Conclusion:*
As much as I really want to purchase local, and purchase authorized, local dealers are making it nearly impossible. And I understand that much of this falls on the shoulders of the consumer. But I think if we are honest I think each party from the top of the chain to the bottom needs to bare some portion of the burden. From manufacturers who ignore unauthorized sales, to reps and distributors making back door deals, to shops who purchase unauthorized or aren't willing to work with customers on price, to the consumer who is looking for any way they can to save a buck. 

I guess most of all, I am just disappointed to see that this is the state of the industry. I don't know what the solution is, but in my opinion, what I see happening now isn't going to work long term. I think there is a reason why at least 1/2 of these shops have only been around for a couple of months. And I fully expect to see these shops gone (and perhaps others taking their place) by this time next year. 

I must say, for the specific purchase I am looking to make right now, I am going to have a real hard time buying local. My only authorized option is looking to be Best Buy. And what makes purchasing from Best Buy any better than buying from Crutchfield outside of having the product the same day? And yes, I'll admit, there are times where the cost savings from the likes of Sonic Electronix and Amazon are almost too tempting to pass up when there is zero perceived value added buy purchasing local or even authorized. 

When pricing is even somewhat close, and I can support a local authorized dealer, I'll do it every time I can. Even if it means having to pay a higher price, plus the local sales tax. I just can't see myself ever paying someone RETAIL for a product that isn't authorized, just because they are local.

*Sincere apologies for any confusion created. Shop 3 is an authorized dealer for all products that they carry. The original post had a typo due to some "copy and paste" action. *


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

Well, I had this issue recently, with a long time local dealer that carries Rockford, Alpine, JBL, Kenwood, and a few other small things. 

They give a discount off of MSRP, usually without being asked for it, of about 10%, maybe a bit more depending on price.

When I was looking for my RF 363, I ended up buying it from Amazon because I got it 200 bucks cheaper than I could local.

However, when I decided to get the PDX-V9, I was really torn between online and local, I wanted no issues with warranty if I ended up with a "hisser" or an issue, so I bit the bullet and bought local. MSRP is $699.00, and after tax I ended up paying @687.00, so the discounted sale price was *634.00*. Yes, I could have saved 200 bucks online...but in this case, with such an expensive product, I wanted fast and easy local support if I needed it.

I have spent a fair amount of cash at this shop over the years, but not since my 20's (20 years ago haha), but the owners/managers are the same people from then, and I have watched the grandson of the owner go from a little shop kid, to a full grown stereo/car nut.

The internet has killed a lot of local dealers.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

It sounds like you have a decent dealer to work with. The fact that they understand they they have to compete with the Internet is huge. 

Shop 3 from my post above has a huge banner over their front door that states "We will match anyone's prices!" I had a feeling what their actual policy was, but I asked them specifically when I went in. Sure enough, they will only match "local" authorized dealers. It wasn't off puting for me, because knowing the shop, I knew there was no way they would match internet pricing. Even authorized dealers. However, I could see how this could easily drive away a lot of business from people who didn't know better.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

rton20s said:


> It sounds like you have a decent dealer to work with. The fact that they understand they they have to compete with the Internet is huge.
> 
> Shop 3 from my post above has a huge banner over their front door that states "We will match anyone's prices!" I had a feeling what their actual policy was, but I asked them specifically when I went in. Sure enough, they will only match "local" authorized dealers. It wasn't off puting for me, because knowing the shop, I knew there was no way they would match internet pricing. Even authorized dealers. However, I could see how this could easily drive away a lot of business from people who didn't know better.


In their defense, authorized dealers have to adhere to a Minimum Advertised Price/Minimum Resale Price and can get into serious trouble for selling merchandise below MAP/MRP. How serious is the trouble? I know someone who was stripped of being able to deal EVERYTHING from a particular manufacturer because they caught him advertising below MAP and selling below MRP to compete with eBay and other internet sites. When I say everything, I'm talking just about every product under the sun that was shared under the common ownership umbrella. Needless to say, this place is no longer in business.


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## tophatjimmy (Dec 16, 2005)

^ agreed. I don't think a lot of people realize the manufacturer imposed restrictions a lot of authorized shops have to operate under. 
You have to carry X amount of their product to be a dealer, you have to sell Y amount quarterly to remain a dealer. You have to order Z amount of product when you reorder or you get hit with pricing penalties and rediculous freight charges.

There are a lot of hoops to jump through to be a dealer for some of these companies today and most of them are not cheap hoops. 

The internet grey market has no such hoops.

Then the manufacturers dictate at what price you can advertize their products (MAP). Once you factor in product cost and operating costs of the business (wages, lease, insurance, electricity, etc) the profit margins can get pretty slim.

Then if you have to start discounting prices on the product to compete with internet pricing, the margins get even slimmer, if any at all. That's a lot for a shop owner to deal with and swallow on a daily basis, they have bills and responsibilies outside the shop too. Really not surprising so many say **** it and close up shop, regardless of the quality of the work they can do.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

I would be all for buying locally if prices werent 75% higher then online. I can swing 5-10% higher but thats it.


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## cleansoundz (May 14, 2008)

I have bought a lot online but these days prefer to buy authorized whenever possible. I like having a warranty on my equipment. However i have a limit as to what I will spend.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

i would have less trouble buying local, if local sold anything. It seems like no matter what it is..nothing is available, and what is available is generally last years model, or not in stock. Today i drove to 4 stores to try and find an ipad mini case for my wife...wasted 2 hours. Last month it took me 2 days of driving around to buy a dishwasher. Or a couch...and forget about electronics...vermont has zip. But we sure have a lot of signs saying BUY Local.


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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

I guess we are very lucky to have a great local dealer.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

You should always by local if they have the product unless they are a55holes IMO.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I know it is long, but some of you may need to re-read my original post. These local dealers are selling at Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP), and definitely NOT Minimum Advertised Price. And the majority of them ARE NOT authorized dealers. And those dealers that are authorized either won't budge off of MSRP or if they do, they typically find another way to get you on the back end (accessories, installation, etc.). 

Again, this is what I am seeing from a very specific group of local shops. I am not claiming that the entire industry is like this. And I completely understand the minimum volume and quarterly values required by manufacturers. Trust me, several if these dealers were quite quick to mention it. Some of the unauthorized dealers used this very reason for not being authorized. 

So to the point of my original post. Why "buy local" if it is still grey market, I have to pay MSRP and taxes? I'm sorry, but I see absolutely no reason to purchase from a shop like this when there are authorized dealers like Crutchfield who sell for the same price, offer free accessories, no tax (under current law) and free shipping?! 

And for the authorized dealers, I would be quite happy to pay the sales tax to buy local AND pay MSRP, if I see some sort of added value. However, if I go in knowing exactly what I want and they are ordering specifically for me with no effort on their part short of picking up the phone, why shouldn't I expect them to be competitive with AUTHORIZED internet retailers? Seeing prices above MSRP is a quick way for a shop to get me to turn around and laugh as I walk out the door.


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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

Crutchfield does not sell at msrp. They sell at MAP or under.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

From what I have seen at Crutchfield it depends on the specific product you are looking at. Some stuff is at MSRP, some is at MAP, and some falls somewhere in between. The only time I see anything below MAP is when they have something on clearance or it is an open box/outlet type item. My understanding is that Crutchfield is an authorized dealer for everything they sell and therefore have to abide by the same exact rules as local authorized dealers.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I'll chime in on Shop 3 above. Not only do they charge MSRP, but generally above it. I went in for a set of JL battery clamps, and they wanted $10 per clamp more than I could get it for, straight from JL, with free shipping. I asked them about that, and they said they only matched local competitors pricing. So, I asked, even when its the company that makes the product? They told me they would have to see it printed out to prove I could get it for that price.


Dustin, I know who 1, 2 and 3 are. I'm curious who 4, 5, and 6 are.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

What part of california are you guys in?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

We're in Visalia. The shops I listed are in Visalia and Tulare. I did not go to every shop in Visalia. If anyone is familiar with the area, they can likely guess shops one and two pretty quickly. 

Chris, I'll PM you the shops since you're local.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

wow im actually suprised there are so many car stereo shops there.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Besides the 6 in my post I know if at least 4 others in Visalia alone. These vary in degree of authorized and unauthorized equipment. Typically a mixture of things that they are authorized to sell and things they are not. I know of one shop that actually has a bunch if empty boxes on their shelf for products they are not authorized to sell, "but can get." 

There are also a few shops in the Hanford/Lemoore area. Not to even mention Fresno/Clovis or Bakersfield and all of the other towns in between. There really are a lot of options around here, of course most aren't authorized for much of anything. Almost more amazing is how hard it is to get some products locally with as many shops as there are.


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## Pinned (May 13, 2012)

Great writeup. I have two local shops if you include Best Buy. There is no high end gear available, even trying to buy a DEH-80PRS (last thing I bothered looking for locally) was a no go. The salesman at the local shop had no idea what I was even talking about and they claim to be a Pioneer dealer.

I'd be more likely to buy from Crutchfield than any of my local shops...they are extremely helpful if you ever need it. Even Sonic Electronix and Woofersetc have done OK by me (better hope you don't need to call those guys though...now _that's_ grey market!)


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## MinnesotaStateUniversity (Sep 12, 2012)

Wow, 6 shops?

Closest we have in town to an "audio shop" is radio shack.

They sell OEM lol


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I have actually never seen a dealer (actual store) that was not "authorized" for products? Thats Crazy to me?????
Just as manufacturers are strict on MAP (as they should be...people really have no clue whats involved from manufacturer, to distributor, to dealer, to you). They are also very strict on MSRP. NO ONE should be selling items over msrp and are really subject to the same discipline as breaking map. Most cases you will loose your line if you get caught. Of course some distributors/manufacturers look the other way if your moving a **** ton of product...I'm not sure how I feel about that? Technically I say they should suffer the same fate because somewhere its screwing someone that is cuffed to map. 
I'm not so sure Crutchfield breaks map. They are the most trust worthy online retailer on the planet to a distributor or manufacturer. The dont mess around. If they have "sales" now and again, thats entirely different and could be part of there package deal because of how much volume they are purchasing......To that I say fair! A local shop will buy a few thousand dollars of product at a time and usually have terms on it (%50 up front, and 30, 60, 90 days to pay) Crutchfield may do the same BUT they are going to purchase $100k or more of any given brand at a time, have quicker turn around, and will be purchasing from the manufacturers pre established line of credit that is going to pay them %90 up front even though crutchfield is only paying the 50+terms on it. 
Thats buying power, and its POWERFUL! 

Now, as far as the shops go? UGH.....being a rep I went into almost a hundred shops recently and here is what I found based on the majority...and its VERY sad.
Most of them have ZERO business sense at all...most of them were or are good installers and decide to just that ownership is the next logical step. Most of them only survive because of alarms/remote starts. They have no merchandising understanding either. The shops are a mess.....TONS of wasted space, no listening area's.....This should be an "experience" and welcome people to actually listen to things and against other things. This is one of those..."if you build it they will come" things. They survive and its good enough for them.....Even though they have the potential to really grow exponentially.....Its so aggravating!! The level of ignorance is just painful to tolerate. Most shops I wont even go in anymore because it sickens me. Most of them are ok guys too....Just SO ignorant. And then they start talking about what companies are going to do to promote them or give them? Are you ****ing kidding me???? ITS YOUR SHOP? Get off your ass and promote and market! You do not have to have a budget to get your feet wet and get results in that venue. 
I always try to by local...especially audio. I have built some great reputations with the local guys (even though they make me sick from a business stand point
But they do nothing to help themselves and that makes it even harder to pay more and support them. To me they are not far off from welfare in that regard. We are going out of our way to help them even though they are doing nothing to help themselves? (I dont mean everyone on welfare is that way...not at all, nor do I feel EVERY shop is this way...however from my experience, sadly, its the majority)

There are still those great shops out there....they will do what they can to help you without loosing there shirt or lively hood, and have excitement and passion while doing it! When you find one? You should buy locally with them and you will feel very good about it too!

Sorry, I've been part of all sides of this and the picture got very clear to me....


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## fasfocus00 (Apr 21, 2013)

i see shops sell regular product and they are not authorized resellers. this is usually b/c they don't have enough business references or credit to become a reseller/retailer. most of the time they partner up with another shop that does have that company's product and just pay dealer cost for those products. some companies offer tier level discounts when placing orders so that does help. companies that are "authorized" reseller/retailers don't get in trouble for selling product lower than MAP or MSRP, they get in trouble for advertising prices below MAP or MSRP. reason being is b/c they want all shops to be on a level playing field when it comes to advertising their products. for anyone that thinks that car audio shops have been killed by the internet that's just not true, well at least it's not the entire story. I helped a friend sell at his shop and I did encounter a few customers that told me they can get XYZ product online for almost half what i told them. i asked them to show me and i'll match whatever they show me. sure enough it was from an unauthorized dealer. I matched exactly what they showed me and they got all pissed and left. I offered to sell them the exact same product with a receipt from the gas station across the street, they pay me today and can pick up the product in a week and any warranty issues need to be address to the manufacturer. this is what online companies are doing so it's not any different, buying local or buying authorized means your paying for convenience warranty or name. 

shops have been killed by their crappy work and over pushing of products. as much as MECP certified installers are looked down upon, i have yet to see a car audio shop that only has MECP certified installers close it's doors. too many of these shops have installers that did one or two installs for a friend and now think they can install as a professional. they offer crap installs and charge celestial prices to do so. i had a shop wanting to charge me $80 to install an Audiocontrol LC6i. I asked for MECP certification of the installer doing the work, he said they don't do that. I than asked for a portfolio of his work, he showed me pictures of the finished products that the shop has done over the years but had not pictures of work in progress and pictures all had the owner in them with no installers. I would have gladly paid more than $100 to get it installed if the installer was MECP certified or i could see a decent portfolio of his work. shops are being killed by their ignorance and lack of knowledge as well. different shop, i asked if they can do a Big 3 install with 0 gauge. response I was given was "what is that?, you just need to install a cap!". I asked if they carry 0 gauge wire, response "0 gauge is only for systems with 18s and tons of speakers, so we don't carry that size wire". if local shops knew that they could make a $40 profit in less than 30 minutes they would all jump on board but the problem is, that they aren't even knowledgeable in their own field. hell I offer locals $20+cost of material to install Big 3 in their car, takes me less than 20 minutes. if a shop would just offer a Big 3 upgrade when doing an install it's a quick and easy upgrade and they would make money on the install and wire. no local shops offer anything reasonable for a box build either even just a regular rectangle box with specific measurements.


sorry to rant a little but I just don't understand shops and how they can blame the internet or customers who just expect people to be honest when it comes to money.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Internet sales dont really kill shops, your right..They make more money on installs....Thats a horrible story you had..... Its sad.... 
Internet sales do however dilute the end products.....the race to ZERO as some call it. People want things for less and less and less and these BS dealers are willing to give it. Barely over cost? But the do so much volume its ok from a profit stand point. But now market value for items shrink like crazy so manufacturers are left with tiny budgets to make new items to fit the new "expected" price points. Then people ***** about the end product quality etc......In many ways its sort of helped. Its pushed technology to provide better products for less costs to manufacture to appease the market. Its a circle. 

Dealers will still get popped if they are selling below map and it can be proved.....thats where it gets tricky. Hard to prove. Of course it would have to be come an "issue" first..........


It does appear that the theory that a lot of dealers are just not educated or at least real enthusiasts is nation wide


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Thanks for your input fasfocus00 and Justin. I was really hoping to get some response from "industry" people to get their take. If fact I got a PM from one if the manufacturers before anyone even responded to this thread because of the typo I mentioned in the OP edit. Good to see manufacturers really looking out for this stuff. 

As for all of the unauthorized product I mentioned, I think California might be in a bit of a unique situation. The impression I was given is that all one of these local guys has to do is take a drive down to L.A. and pick up just about anything they want. And one commented that if it wasn't something he was authorized for he could just call up another distributor and get me whatever I wanted. So long as I was willing to pay MSRP up front, of course.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Makes sense why I didn't know 4, 5 and 6. I've never gone "next door" so to speak to look at the audio shops. Nailed the first 3 though, number two is who is cutting the wood for me for the CLD test.

For those amazed at the amount of shops around, keep in mind, none but a couple people in the area would have an idea of what a sound quality car is. Most of them might as well be the same as best buy or circuit city. But huge loud subs is ridiculously popular here. That's almost all there is here. With the exception of Dustin, maybe 1-2 other people, and myself, most people here haven't heard anything that anyone on this board would consider sound quality.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I was one of the very first people to "darken the door" of shop 1 I listed above. I was hopeful to see a new shop pop up. I was quickly disappointed when I got the "deer in the headlights" looks when I started using some sound quality terminology or referring to equipment that is common in here. I was quickly told that all the owner was looking to do was knock out deck and fours and the occasional pre-fabed subwoofer enclosure. 

When I mentioned that I have a DEH-80PRS that I'm running active he just said, "I don't really do that stuff." It was also pretty clear that he didn't even know what a DEH-80PRS was.


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## MinnesotaStateUniversity (Sep 12, 2012)

rton20s said:


> When I mentioned that I have a DEH-80PRS that I'm running active he just said, "I don't really do that stuff." It was also pretty clear that he didn't even know what a DEH-80PRS was.


You should have seen the guy's face when I brought my miniDSP in & told him it was a processor:laugh:

He told me component speakers can't be ran w/out passive x-overs


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

MinnesotaStateUniversity said:


> You should have seen the guy's face when I brought my miniDSP in & told him it was a processor:laugh:
> 
> He told me component speakers can't be ran w/out passive x-overs


VALUE ADDED. Good thing he was there to educate you.


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## hammondc (Feb 8, 2013)

South TX is just as bad. There is one smallish chain around here that does a decent job. They have one shop that does a damn good job. They sell all of the major brands JL, Alpine, RF, Sony Kenwood, Pioneer and some others. Pricing seems to be all over and they are willing to deal a little. Still, I agree with a post above about a paying a small difference. I'd cover 10% or so, but no more. However, there is no way in hell I would pay more for a product local if the shop is not authorized. That is reason #1 to buy local for me. 

The closer I get to Mexico, the worse the shops get.


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## MinnesotaStateUniversity (Sep 12, 2012)

hammondc said:


> The closer I get to Mexico, the worse the shops get.


lol

.


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## Yankeesound (Jul 11, 2009)

This is a great thread. I was returning a JL amp to get fixed (given to me by my buddy, he said it stopped working lol) Anyways, went to the JL site found a couple of places close to my job. One looked weird from the Google street pic(though he was listed a prime or whatever you call it dealer) Anyways went to another one a bit further way(2-3miles) Walked in saw nothing but JL gear. He obviously loves them lol. Started talking to the guy, he knew his stuff, didn’t try to sell me any unnecessary stuff when I asked about products, full portfolio available for review. While the shop was unassuming, boy did he do some custom work. I was thoroughly impressed and he was authorized for all his brands. He works on a lot of German cars and what not. What I saw was and very impressed with was the radar detector (top brands) but they etch the display into your rear view mirror (and you don’t see a blanks pot or anything, looks factory). Sadly I can’t afford over 2k , lol for that. Keep in mind the neighborhood he’s in is very affluent so his prices were in line with where he was. Lot’s of disposable income 

None the less he may be doing some work for me but already told him I have limits and a budget haha. As the OP noted, these places are very hard to find


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## [email protected] (Oct 21, 2009)

Some of you have horror stories about your local "dealers". I won't mention the names of any of the shops within driving distance but after having an install done recently at a local shop, I wish I'd have driven elsewhere. It turned into a freaking nightmare for me. I did have a complicated install but they had my truck for about 4 days. The install consisted of a Deh80, building a sub box for two jbl w10gtis, installing a set of FB6.1 pros, and three amps. I had so many conversations with them prior to taking my truck to them that I felt that very thing would be great. Damn if I wasn't wrong, I was pretty clear that I expected exactly what I describe and assured I'd get it. NOT, to start I was very specific that my tweeters were to be mounted in my sail panels, nope they mounted them in the dash. When I took te truck back and asked them to fix it, I was assured it wouldn't be a problem. Picked my truck up later that day and about fell over, they mounted them TO the damn sail panel, literally screwed them to the sail panel. 
The sub box, OMG. The carpet didn't match up at the seams and I told them that was bs and they needed to rewrap it, nope. Instead they placed some kind of goofy ass strip over the seams, now 3 weeks later the damn thing FELL OFF. I won't even go into their lack of tuning my deck or adjusting the amps. Oh and one amp didn't even get mounted, it was left loose under a seat. I finally said F it, they will never touch my stuff again. 
It's sad, they are one of two shops in this town and actually seem knowledgeable an keep a decent amount of product. 
There is one very nice shop about 40 miles away that does very nice installs, carries great equipment and has been around forever. 

The problem I see with so many shops is they're more of a turn n burn setup. They aren't into quality installs that show off ability and product. They're into turning over low end inventory and burning through quick installs. 

Regarding all of the unauthorized sales, this is a problem for the manufacturer and distributors to address. You shouldnt be able to get product in a quantity to make it worth selling without someone breaking their Authorized dealer agreement. Distributors and the manufacturers should be able to see when a dealer is ordering a mass amount of product, that seems unreasonable for their size. 

I personally have no respect for any shop that will sell their product outside of what is a logical price. Logical to me is MSRP, minus maybe 20% at max on "sale". I do realize there are exceptions to this but the old saying is still true. If it seems to good to be true, run! Lol. 

I fully support online retailers that are authorized as long as they aren't under selling the brick and mortars. Online retailers are a necessity, there are so many brands that in many cases it's impossible to get something local. This is where it's nice to have an online retailer. 

What we as consumers need to do is make sure that we spread the word on the "good guys" so that they can stay in the business. Some of the forums need a dedicated spot for Shop props and make it a requirement that pics accompany a post.


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## Iosias (Jul 12, 2012)

rton20s said:


> Besides the 6 in my post I know if at least 4 others in Visalia alone. These vary in degree of authorized and unauthorized equipment. Typically a mixture of things that they are authorized to sell and things they are not. I know of one shop that actually has a bunch if empty boxes on their shelf for products they are not authorized to sell, "but can get."
> 
> There are also a few shops in the Hanford/Lemoore area. Not to even mention Fresno/Clovis or Bakersfield and all of the other towns in between. There really are a lot of options around here, of course most aren't authorized for much of anything. Almost more amazing is how hard it is to get some products locally with as many shops as there are.


Funny enough within 20 minutes of Visalia I can think of about 8 more shops nearly.... and all of them terrible as well. (Im in kingsburg myself)

#After reading more I realize that has been discussed lol, There is only one shop I have been to in Fresno id even consider letting touch my truck but its all sell sell and arrogance which puts me off.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Good to see another "local" in here. There aren't that many of us. Shoot me a PM, if you don't mind, of which shop in Fresno you are referring to. I think I might know which one. There is actually one there and one in Clovis that I would probably be willing to work with. Though, I'll admit, I haven't been to a ton of shops in Fresno in recent years.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Just an update, I had shop two cut some wood for me today for the CLD testing. When I came to pick it up and asked what the damage was, he said don't worry about it, that we were good. Said he couldn't see charging for a couple minutes of work.


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## txfast (Nov 21, 2012)

My opinion may not be popular, but honestly I am very thankful for Crutchfield. They are the only reason I ever had decent systems in my ride when I was younger and the experience I gained then is a huge part of why I have a system I am happy with now. 

I grew up in a small town in Mississippi and there was 1 car audio store in a 60 mile radius. They seemed like a good shop for what little I knew then, but they were expensive for a teen who earned minimum wage flipping burgers and parents wouldn't pay a penny for anything like that for me. Crutchfield took the fear out of DIY when the internet was still a baby and you couldn't just google up videos and pictures of DIY install work. Crutchfield gave you the product at whatever price, probably MSRP most of the time, but gave you cheap or free install accessories and most importantly the master sheet install instructions and toll free phone support. Remember those days when long distance calls weren't free, my nearest car audio shop was long distance, 10 cents a minute. 
With the clear instructions and support by phone if needed, I had no trouble learning how to install my own equipment. The experience I gained learning how to do that has made it something I enjoy doing now. I wouldn't even consider taking it anywhere local and forking out a wad of cash to have someone I don't know work on it on their schedule and then if I have problems I have to take it back to them on their schedule. 
I understand the idea of buy local and support local businesses. But when it comes to car audio, its so much more hassle than its worth to me, not even counting how much more money it costs. Also, I prefer installing my own stuff so that I know where everything is and I can troubleshoot and fix issues myself on my schedule and continue building my knowledge about car audio. If a product goes out and needs to be repaired under warranty, so long as I buy from an authorized dealer I can box it up and FedEx it in for repair just as easy as they can, except I don't have to drive 20 miles to give them the box to FedEx it for me and then 20 miles to pick it up when they get it back. 

I'm glad that the local shops exist and I realize they play an important role in the big picture. That being said, online retailers are not evil. There are tons of small towns that don't have ANY options and tons of places where the options are very few and a lot of driving that makes it a serious pain to deal with. If it weren't for companies like Crutchfield, there would be a lot of people stuck with garbage factory stereos, and I was one of those people when I was younger.


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## inspector3711 (Apr 11, 2013)

I had two systems installed locally. My wife's system went perfectly but I had a three week pain in the butt with mine. Turned out to be three faulty head units in a row. After some agony, the installer finally made it right by cutting $75 off of the price. This wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't insisted that the problem was my OEM wiring for three weeks before admitting Kenwood shipped some flaky units.

Afterwards I read alot of complaints about them online. Should have done my homework. My bad.

I feel I paid too much for labor, otherwise I'm happy.

I like to support the local economy, but situations like this make me skeptical. I buy online when the price isn't right locally. Sometimes the local guys won't even talk about lowering their price a little. 

I'm doing my own subwoofer. The dealer wants $109 for a particular Infinity sub. They also want $200 for an amp to power it and $75 for a 5/8" MDF box, then $150 for labor.. They also told me if I do my own sub install I'll void their installation warranty on my system. This made me want to do my own work even more...

Ended up with a free 3/4" box that has a double walled baffle. Got the same sub and a nice amp for $150 shipped. Sometimes I just have to save a buck.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

A quick update on "*Shop 1*"...

These guys are now completely out of the car audio business and are focusing on tires and oil changes. In the very short time they were actually open as a car audio shop, I don't even know how much audio work they actually did. It was minimal, I am sure. This is probably a good thing. 

I'm all for more vendor choices, product options and resources in general, but I have a feeling that had this company stayed in the car audio market they would have done the industry more harm than good.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I noticed that, I think its been about 2 months since they took down the signs advertising audio work. Probably sold whatever their original "stock" was and gave up.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

rton20s said:


> A quick update on "*Shop 1*"...
> 
> These guys are now completely out of the car audio business and are focusing on tires and oil changes. In the very short time they were actually open as a car audio shop, I don't even know how much audio work they actually did. It was minimal, I am sure. This is probably a good thing.
> 
> I'm all for more vendor choices, product options and resources in general, but I have a feeling that had this company stayed in the car audio market they would have done the industry more harm than good.


Seems like anyone can start a business doing any thing these days.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Richv72 said:


> Seems like anyone can start a business doing any thing these days.


Except ice cream. Or anything dairy, really. At least not without *HUGE* capital. Trust me on this one.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

rton20s said:


> We're in Visalia. The shops I listed are in Visalia and Tulare. I did not go to every shop in Visalia. If anyone is familiar with the area, they can likely guess shops one and two pretty quickly.
> 
> Chris, I'll PM you the shops since you're local.


I didn't realize you were that close to me.

We have a few shops and one in particular who sells authorized JL stuff at very good prices for me. It's a great shop for buying stuff, I've known the owner for 20 years. The installers work as independent contractors, maybe that's common in this industry but they absolutely suck, every one of them. I just tried to send an authorized HD amp in for repair by JL and I got a huge run around and was told it's not worth it. I buy stuff from them because they're as cheap or cheaper than most internet prices but that's all they're good for, selling stuff.

I get the JL stuff so cheap because they don't move enough of it and buying a pair of HDs or 13W7s helps I guess. The vast majority of their customers buy Interfire subs and amps. The owner is a knowledgeable guy and so is his son but that's it. This was one of the shops back in the '90s that would always have cars and tons of people hanging out until 10 or 11PM.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Yeah close by. I've been wanting to get down that way at some point to get a demo of your car. Especially because my brother has a TL. I'd like to take a look at the shops down that way as well.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Surprise, surprise. I happened to see another shop here in town today while on my lunch hour. Or, well, at least their sign. It is less than a block from "*Shop 1*" that is no more. So we can call this "*Shop 7*", I suppose? It is also virtually back to back with another shop "*Shop 8*" which didn't make it into my original list. 

I might take a few minutes one of these days to see what these guys have going on. There are a couple others in town that I won't even bother venturing into. I know they won't have any products I would be interested in and I am not the demographic that they cater to.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

rton20s said:


> Yeah close by. I've been wanting to get down that way at some point to get a demo of your car. Especially because my brother has a TL. I'd like to take a look at the shops down that way as well.


Anytime. I would like to hear yours as well. I still haven't purchased a mic or any sort of tuning equipment so if we ever meet up you can have full reign of the PS8, it can't sound any worse than it does with me behind the controls.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

^I have an omnimic now if you ever want to try that out, along with a scope.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I've stepped up from nothing to the Dayton iMM-6 + Studio Six Digital Audio Tools on my iPhone 5.  Stll haven't had a chance to truly test it yet.


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