# Sound Deadening - If you could do it over again...



## steelwindmachine (May 15, 2017)

I'm planning to sound deaden my 2014 Kia Sorento EX.

I'm a disciple of Sound Deadener Showdown's and Resonix's ideology, but also realize that these companies were/art trying to sell materials. Materials that aren't cheap, are laborious to install and are all advertised as having diminishing returns at or after a certain level of coverage.

*That said, for those of you who have put in the work and experienced the results I have product specific questions below and would like to know what else you would do differently with your deadening products/methods?*

I'm envisioning doing tap tests with a small rubber mallet, panel by panel to ascertain some of the resonance and use the 25%-35% CLD coverage suggestion by SDS.
**Has this coverage level worked for your install?*

CCF - decoupler - My car hasn't had its panels torn apartment much at all. it doesn't suffer from much in the way of pre-system panel buzzing.
**Would it be more sensible to apply CCF after the system is installed to then address and target any wayward buzzing?* 

MLV - 100% coverage is recommended to be the target and less than that will only allow noise to creep in. It's suggest that if you can't achieve 100% coverage and no gaps, that installing any isn't really worth the cost or time.
**How was your experience in results with full or less than full coverage?*


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Following


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## doeboy (May 2, 2012)

I have found that CCF decoupler can potentially be better applied after since you might be able to better tell where the vibration is coming from on the panel. It can enable you to better target it and manipulate the object in a way that stops the vibration to verify that it is in fact causing the noise. I have had that happen with the control panel on a door for example and pressing it down with my hand stopped the noise so wa lah..

I used MLV with a decoupler to cover most of the door using a bunch of velcro to attach it to the door. It works quite well. Mark with car audio fab has a great youtube video going into this as well as using say a piece of rigid plastic to cover up large holes in the door.


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

I go with pretty much 100% coverage and a double layer in the centre of flat panels

if I was doing it again I’d be bonding right angle aluminium into the door to split the door into four smaller stiffer sections and deaden in between also

my roof I would do exactly what I have now, I have bonded 11 10cm wide strips of stainless to my roof skin, stuck the cross braces with polyurethane sealent also to stiffen there hold on the roof also... my roof doesn’t move and has a layer of deadener over it all too and ccf in place where the lining may touch it also... plus all wiring looms are wrapped in tesa tape also

I also have mlv and carpet underlay on the floor also... mlv even the 60% under my feet does a nice job of quietening the cabin somewhat


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## doeboy (May 2, 2012)

dumdum said:


> I go with pretty much 100% coverage and a double layer in the centre of flat panels
> 
> if I was doing it again I’d be bonding right angle aluminium into the door to split the door into four smaller stiffer sections and deaden in between also
> 
> ...


How much power are you pushing to require such a level of stiffening? I actually haven't seen anybody literally put bracing on a roof before. Sounds like heaven for the SPL guys


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## steelwindmachine (May 15, 2017)

me, i'm only doing a 2-way front stage and one 12" sub. I'm NOT looking to turn my car into an armor car for SPL competition


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## dumdum (Feb 27, 2007)

doeboy said:


> How much power are you pushing to require such a level of stiffening? I actually haven't seen anybody literally put bracing on a roof before. Sounds like heaven for the SPL guys


Youd be surprised how much the movement in a roof will make peaks and dips in the subs response even at 1kw and under with low freqs... I’d be lucky to find 130db in my car... but that would be at around 40hz un-eq’d I reckon... I knock that peak off and have a nice steady rise from 0db 200 in the midbass upto +12db at 20hz and more at 10hz also...


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## Vx220 (Nov 30, 2015)

A car magazine over here tested aftermarket car mats that have a layer of MLV in them, so considerably less than 100% coverage, and reported good results


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## falconfan (Mar 3, 2009)

Call me stupid, but I attacked this the "caveman" way. Can't remember the name of the company now, Rammatt, maybe? Any way, He posted videos with instructions and sold two main products, the heavy deadening material and also ensolite. I used his instructions and used sheet metal to seal all openings in the door, basically made each door an enclosure. Put a layer of each product on the interior and exterior of the door itself... then also on the door panel. I sealed up everything with regular bathtub caulk. The results were incredible. Very labor intensive, but it was easily the best use of time possible on making the doors stand out. Can't imagine anything being more effective. Just my experience. And for the record, I had 400W available for each door. Truly didn't even need a separate sub. '99 Dodge Ram with CDT ES braxials with upstage tweeters in the A pillars... all with passive crossovers. Incredibly simple, but incredibly amazing sound. All fed by a Sony C90/XDP-4000 processor and I'd put it up against anyone.


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

My thoughts - 

CLD is definitely not needed everywhere - even 25% coverage is probably more than you need for most sheet metal. Its only doors and roofs and interior quarter panels, those big unsupported areas that really benefit. Almost all the rest of the metal in any car from the alst 20 years is corrugated, folded, beaded and doesn't have that much reasonance. If you are doing a full effort car then yes, but otherwise no. Also, pulling the headline is a big pain for the average guy, but there is a lot to be gained here, especially if you also stuff it with melamine foam or other absorber. 

I still think putting CCF on the back of all of your MLV or sound layer is pretty pointless. I still do it, but only because its not very expensive for my budget. But if you'r elaying MLV down on the floor and then putting carpet over it, I have serious doubts that ccf is doing anything for you.

For me the MLV layer is still the most important part, its the only thing actually blocking road noise. I know the math and acoustics says even a 10% hole lets in 100%of the sound or whatever, but my experience has been that covering the floor and especially firewall makes for solid reductions. Also another tip is 1/64" lead sheeting weighs the same and blocks ths same as 1/8" MLV, but is much thinner and easier to form (but also about 3-4* more expensive). 

all this being said, I only buy a new to me car every ten years or so, and every car I buy becomes a "max effort" to outdo what I've done before, so my vehicles get lots of CLD (including the roof and rear doors), melamine foam wherever I can stick it, and a full MLV/CCF layer on the firewall, tunnel, floor, and rear seat. Even then I don't expect much more than about 2dB of road noise reduction at 70mph on average pavement, although I would contend that the frequency of that noise is also better (ie higher frequencies that we are more sensitive to are attenuated more regardless of the overall dB reduction).


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## FAUEE (Jul 22, 2010)

I think what most people are missing are the end goal. Do you want a vehicle that's silent like tomb? Do you want to make your older economy car as quiet as a newer economy car? Do you just want to prevent panels from rattling after installing a stereo? 

You have to define your goals to know what to do. If you just want to quiet down rattles, that's a totally different set of materials, plan of attack, and cost than if you're trying to take an old cheap car and make it silent like a new luxury car.


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

Answers in Green 



steelwindmachine said:


> I'm planning to sound deaden my 2014 Kia Sorento EX.
> 
> I'm a disciple of Sound Deadener Showdown's and Resonix's ideology, but also realize that these companies were/art trying to sell materials. Materials that aren't cheap, are laborious to install and are all advertised as having diminishing returns at or after a certain level of coverage.
> 
> ...


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

lithium said:


> Answers in Green


I am currently in the process of replacing my knukonceptz which failed in less than a year in socal with resonix fwiw - very disappointed. It is giving me the ability to do everything properly by aiming for ~70% coverage vs the 50% I had before and adding additional deadening in the form of properly sealing the doors and possible some fibreglass tiles in the outer door skin area.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

looks like some Europeans we have very different - more extreme approach to the subject...aint we DumDum.... 2 x 100 percent coverage with Silent Coat damping plates (doors, sides, floors, roof, A, B, C pillars, trunk) + a layer of 1-2 cm neoprene all over the car 🙃 ... well, the car is pretty quiet inside, lol

If I would go do it all again I would probably dampen the engine hood too and maybe even additional layer on wheel arch


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

Turb0Yoda said:


> I am currently in the process of replacing my knukonceptz which failed in less than a year in socal with resonix fwiw - very disappointed. It is giving me the ability to do everything properly by aiming for ~70% coverage vs the 50% I had before and adding additional deadening in the form of properly sealing the doors and possible some fibreglass tiles in the outer door skin area.


I used it in the past and it held up great for me. It also tested well in the original testing on diyma. But i've seen a few thread now that might point towards issues with the product. I think I applied it well, cleaned the surfaces and all the correct steps, fingers crossed. Luckily it doesn't get as hot here in central IL so we will see.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

I bought a bunch of knukoncetz for my Tundra I'm ready to install. I have never heard of the product having problems. I weighs about 1 lbs. per square ft.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

preston said:


> My thoughts -
> 
> CLD is definitely not needed everywhere - even 25% coverage is probably more than you need for most sheet metal. Its only doors and roofs and interior quarter panels, those big unsupported areas that really benefit. Almost all the rest of the metal in any car from the alst 20 years is corrugated, folded, beaded and doesn't have that much reasonance. If you are doing a full effort car then yes, but otherwise no. Also, pulling the headline is a big pain for the average guy, but there is a lot to be gained here, especially if you also stuff it with melamine foam or other absorber.
> 
> ...


I dont have the link on hand, but decoupling the MLV is crucial for it to actually work. That being said, it needs to be decoupled with the right material. Justin zazzi did a massive test on this year's ago if you want to look it up. I dont have the time to find it for you at the moment. Sorry


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

I wouldnt do the mlv going forward. If you dont cover completely, the noise will find its way in. I think it has some uses (I covered the "bed" area of my 4runner). With CLD, I also favor the 30-50% coverage.


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## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Turb0Yoda said:


> I am currently in the process of replacing my knukonceptz which failed in less than a year in socal with resonix fwiw - very disappointed. It is giving me the ability to do everything properly by aiming for ~70% coverage vs the 50% I had before and adding additional deadening in the form of properly sealing the doors and possible some fibreglass tiles in the outer door skin area.


Can you explain more about how it failed? This is on my list of based on the price point and general reviews. I havent heard of it failing so would like to know more more.


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## steelwindmachine (May 15, 2017)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> I dont have the link on hand, but decoupling the MLV is crucial for it to actually work. That being said, it needs to be decoupled with the right material. Justin zazzi did a massive test on this year's ago if you want to look it up. I dont have the time to find it for you at the moment. Sorry


Found it: Report: is closed cell foam the right material to...

From the report, page 4, Conclusion:

_Trying to decouple mass loaded vinyl in a car audio installation is not practical due to the limited space available to work with under factory carpet and trim panels. Even if enough space was available to work with, closed cell foam is not a good material to use as a decoupling layer because something as soft as pillow stuffing would be required. Instead, *hang* the vinyl as loosely as possible to allow the natural damping properties of the vinyl to dissipate vibrations._

With this information and the fact that Justin specifically suggests to "hang" the MLV, this would negate it being effectively used on floors/horizontal applications where it can't be effectively decoupled from the surfaces. (sheet metal, trim and carpet).

Though in his post #16 on that report thread, he does say, "A mass loaded barrier will reduce noise transferring from one side to the other. It could possibly introduce noise by rubbing/buzzing against a nearby surface if the conditions are just right, but generally not." 

Taken as a whole, it only seems it would be most effective to install in the doors. The rest of the car could then just be treated with CLD tiles on the large flat panels (outer/inner door, firewall, floor, roof, trunk/tailgate and wheel wells). Unless you have particularly thin carpet and/or are looking to compete, then maybe expending the money and labor might be worth it to cover as much as possible with the MLV.

Thank you!


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

From what I've read on the subject, ^^^ is right on point. It's also my belief that MLV is over emphasized in car installation applications because it adds to the bottom line of the vendors. There is a generous profit margin in that type of material and who doesn't like to make an extra buck or two? With that said, sure MLV adds to the overall reduction of noise in the cab, but more so because it's just an extra layer for any sound to penetrate, not because it functions the way it is intended to in applications such as walls with the proper decoupler. I also don't buy into the hype that one vendors MLV is better than anothers. If they have the same or very similar STC ratings, they will perform the same. Just did a search on several vendors on roughly the same square footage of the same material and the price fluctuations can be as great as $30 - $40 between them. We all make our own decisions, but I'll take the no name brand and save some bucks for other parts of the project.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Because of the thickness of MLV making it hard to decouple, I used sheet lead this last iteration and it was MUCH easier to hang without it contacting the panel and skin at the same time. And resonix foam is tremendously softer than the neoprene roam used in the test.
It does make a massive difference in car thoufg. I do it in the doors of every car I do. The trunk is second for keeping out some exhaust noise, and the whole car is last just because of the stupid amount of time it takes.
The lead sheet is much easier to do than MLV though along with it being crazy thinner for the same weight. It actually contours and bends to non flat shapes, so you have so many fewer seams to deal with, which are the most annoying part of any sound barrier IMO.
Downside is it is much more expensive than MLV.








This is a picture of 1lb mlv (1/8 in) under a piece of 2lb Lead ( 1/32 in). If you are tight on space they also sell 1lb sheet that is 1/64th that will fit behind anything you can find. Both of them fold up like a piece of foil and will stretch a bit to contour into a negative space a bit if needed.


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## Just a guy (Mar 2, 2021)

I used raamat and ensolite 95% coverage. It was a real pain in the ass! 

If I had to do it again? I would drop coverage of the deadener to about 75-80% but retain foam usage at 95%. At least I tell myself that  I'd probably end up doing full coverage again, and trying to cover as many big holes with plastic, or aluminum or...

I haven't been in the car driving with all of the interior pieces installed. Without them there is still a good amount of road noise from the rear inner fenders as it sits now. I will be reinforcing that area before finishing the interior. 

The music definitely "stays inside the car" much better. Louder music, less attention.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> Because of the thickness of MLV making it hard to decouple, I used sheet lead this last iteration and it was MUCH easier to hang without it contacting the panel and skin at the same time. And resonix foam is tremendously softer than the neoprene roam used in the test.
> It does make a massive difference in car thoufg. I do it in the doors of every car I do. The trunk is second for keeping out some exhaust noise, and the whole car is last just because of the stupid amount of time it takes.
> The lead sheet is much easier to do than MLV though along with it being crazy thinner for the same weight. It actually contours and bends to non flat shapes, so you have so many fewer seams to deal with, which are the most annoying part of any sound barrier IMO.
> Downside is it is much more expensive than MLV.
> ...


Where did you buy the lead sheets? I googled lead sheets for car sound and came up with .......not much of anything.


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## Vx220 (Nov 30, 2015)

Not sure if you guys get tecsound in the states, but apparently that doesn't need to hang, can just be stuck down? 

It comes in a self-adhesive version. 

Maybe dumdum or LBaudio might know of some users?


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

EricTundra said:


> Where did you buy the lead sheets? I googled lead sheets for car sound and came up with .......not much of anything.





https://www.rotometals.com/lead-sheet-plates/


This who I used. Was the least expensive I could find with shipping. It's used for roofing and xray shielding mainly, but not super easy to find.
You may be able to find it locally, but the local places I found were charging about 10x what this place is.


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## JVD240 (Sep 7, 2009)

EricTundra said:


> Where did you buy the lead sheets? I googled lead sheets for car sound and came up with .......not much of anything.


Local metal supply places will sometimes have it. Best to phone around and try to get it locally because of the weight.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Rotometals has specs and availability online.
But of course shipping will be a killer.
That said I was able to pick up a roll from their warehouse in N.Cali.



https://www.rotometals.com/lead-sheet-plates/


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## jheat2500 (Mar 1, 2021)

Depending on what dimensions you need, rolls of lead flashing may be a good option and can be sourced through roofing supply houses and even Amazon.


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## Fish Chris 2 (Dec 18, 2019)

If I could do it all over again, Id probably do the exact same thing. Im quite happy with the sound deadener situation in my truck. I used about 100 sq ft of Noico brand. I've had zero smell, and so far as I know, zero melting or unbonding, in the hot Sacramento sun. Made a night and day sound difference. I probably did about 80% coverage of my roof, all 4 doors, and my back wall.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

jheat2500 said:


> Depending on what dimensions you need, rolls of lead flashing may be a good option and can be sourced through roofing supply houses and even Amazon.


The lead flashing I could find came in narrow sheets. Like 1-2 ft wide. Thats why I ended up with rotometals. They had it in 4ft widths up to 25 ft length.
Shipping can be killer though. It may be cheaper to buy a few shorter lengths in different orders to keep shopping costs down. As soon as it hits the pallet weight limit the cost goes WAY up


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

So the question is will 1lbs lead sheet outperform MLV and therefore be worth the extra cost?


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

EricTundra said:


> So the question is will 1lbs lead sheet outperform MLV and therefore be worth the extra cost?


Depends what you think of as out perform.
If you are comparing 1lb mlv vs 1lb lead than they will block the same amount of sound. That being said it has other benefits that I would consider out performing
#1) it is much thinner, so it is tremendously easier to get behind newer door panels that tend to be much closer to the door skin. Also makes it easier to get under carpets without them laying strangely after.
#2) it is thinner like 16 thou or 1/64in kinda thin. Basically foil. I know it's the same as number 1, but for a different reason. You can get 2lb, 3lb, even 8lb lead sheet before you get to the same 1/8in thickness of 1lb MLV. So you can get a heavier barrier for the same real estate taken up.
#3) It bends, stretches, and holds its shape better than MLV. So you can shape the sheet to what you need it to cover. That is either going to save you time on making a ton of cuts in the MLV and gluing it back together to get the form perfect. You dont necessarily have to cut and reglue the MLV in some spots like under seats, but the MLV is going to just lay over top and not take the contours as well. Which can makes seats and other things harder to get on.
So it depends if those things are worth the price for you. For me, I couldnt get the door panels back on properly with 1lb MLV, so I had to find a different route. Now that ive tried it out, the benefits outweigh the costs for me personally.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Hmm, a random search pulled up 1lbs MLV as being only 1/8" thick. There was also a video on how well it - MLV - works by placing a speaker under a box lined with the stuff - huge difference. To be fair, I'd like to do a similar experiment between the two materials.


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

EricTundra said:


> So the question is will 1lbs lead sheet outperform MLV and therefore be worth the extra cost?


barrier performance is a function of weight per square foot. Lead is just more dense and therefor a thinner product.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

EricTundra said:


> Hmm, a random search pulled up 1lbs MLV as being only 1/8" thick. There was also a video on how well it - MLV - works by placing a speaker under a box lined with the stuff - huge difference. To be fair, I'd like to do a similar experiment between the two materials.


I added a bit more on the last post. Accidently hit post on my phone haha.
It is only 1/8in, but when adding a layer of CCF, and a layer of good CLD on the door skin and card, that space can be eaten up quickly.
So cutting that down to 1/64 inch gives a big improvement if you are already tight on space.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> Depends what you think of as out perform.
> If you are comparing 1lb mlv vs 1lb lead than they will block the same amount of sound. That being said it has other benefits that I would consider out performing
> #1) it is much thinner, so it is tremendously easier to get behind newer door panels that tend to be much closer to the door skin. Also makes it easier to get under carpets without them laying strangely after.
> #2) it is thinner like 16 thou or 1/64in kinda thin. Basically foil. I know it's the same as number 1, but for a different reason. You can get 2lb, 3lb, even 8lb lead sheet before you get to the same 1/8in thickness of 1lb MLV. So you can get a heavier barrier for the same real estate taken up.
> ...


Sounds like a combination of materials would be a great compromise. MLV for areas where space is not at a premium, and lead for areas that are tight like door panels.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Personally, I won't be able to use the metal sheets as everyone keeps telling me to get the lead out???


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

EricTundra said:


> Sounds like a combination of materials would be a great compromise. MLV for areas where space is not at a premium, and lead for areas that are tight like door panels.


Indeed. That being said, a lot of sound comes from wheel wells and under the car. So being able to get a much heavier layer down there can be a good thing as well. Depends how nuts you wana go. As a general rule I would do exactly what you said. Maybe using some of the heavier lead around the wheel wells and firewall if working on a tin can like my 86


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

My Tundra Double Cab has a lot of noise coming from the rear wall and floor. Putting sound barrier in that location alone will make a big difference. The doors also sound like hollow tin cans when slammed shut. I'm pretty stoked about getting this project started no matter what materials I use, lol.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

This may be interesting reading to some of you: Understanding STC and STC Ratings | Soundproofing Company
I'm not affiliated, just googled STC ratings and that was one result.


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

Something I keep in mind also though is that lead is toxic. Use gloves when handling, and keep it buried. And don't breathe in the fumes if your car catches on fire lol.



EricTundra said:


> It's also my belief that MLV is over emphasized in car installation applications


We can agree to disagree on that - Notwithstanding the doors I think its the most important element of sound proofing. After all, CLD does almost nothing to block road noise. 

Another thought, sometimes trunks are not that sound proofed. When I install an IB subwoorfer, I block every hole in the unibody (with aluminum riveted in using CLD as a gasket) between teh trunk and cabin, and I've noticed just doing this makes a big difference as a fair amount of sound comes in the trunk and then into the cabin. After all, more than half of the rear wheel well is in the trunk and wheel wells are amajor source of sound. Not to mention exhaust outlet, etc.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

I misspoke, I meant to say that the effectiveness of MLV could be greater if decoupled, but that's just not practical in car audio. I do agree with you that MLV is the most important element in car sound proofing.

My stock truck has a lot of road noise coming from the panel just below the rear window, and the adjoining floor pan. And off course, the doors sound like tin cans when you slam them shut.

Just got a couple of small samples of foam today. One is a closed cell foam that feels pretty light weight and is 1/4" thick, the other is a neoprene, also 1/4". These foams are not marketed as sound proofing options, but reading up on the specs and seeing the price is right, I ordered the samples for testing. Gonna have to order bigger samples since these are way small. I did do a simple test and the results were interesting. Our clothes dryer has a door with no insulation. When I knock on the door, it sounds as you would expect, like a hollow metal door. When I held the closed foam up to the door and knocked on the foam, there was a definite dampening effect. The effect was even greater with the neoprene. Now I'm gonna order some actual MLV and compare that. My goal will be to make a box about a square foot on all sides with Amazon's Alexa playing ambient noise inside. I'll take a sound meter and take measurements without material, with foam, with neoprene, and with MLV. I'll also experiment with various layers and see what's what. These types of practical tests are what I feel most confident in, vs graphs and analytics. Besides, they are fun to do and make a great video. Stay tuned - see what I did there 😜


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

EricTundra said:


> I misspoke, I meant to say that the effectiveness of MLV could be greater if decoupled, but that's just not practical in car audio. I do agree with you that MLV is the most important element in car sound proofing.
> 
> My stock truck has a lot of road noise coming from the panel just below the rear window, and the adjoining floor pan. And off course, the doors sound like tin cans when you slam them shut.
> 
> Just got a couple of small samples of foam today. One is a closed cell foam that feels pretty light weight and is 1/4" thick, the other is a neoprene, also 1/4". These foams are not marketed as sound proofing options, but reading up on the specs and seeing the price is right, I ordered the samples for testing. Gonna have to order bigger samples since these are way small. I did do a simple test and the results were interesting. Our clothes dryer has a door with no insulation. When I knock on the door, it sounds as you would expect, like a hollow metal door. When I held the closed foam up to the door and knocked on the foam, there was a definite dampening effect. The effect was even greater with the neoprene. Now I'm gonna order some actual MLV and compare that. My goal will be to make a box about a square foot on all sides with Amazon's Alexa playing ambient noise inside. I'll take a sound meter and take measurements without material, with foam, with neoprene, and with MLV. I'll also experiment with various layers and see what's what. These types of practical tests are what I feel most confident in, vs graphs and analytics. Besides, they are fun to do and make a great video. Stay tuned - see what I did there 😜


Get some of nicks CCF, it is the best I have run into so far along with his CLD (resonix). The original CCF I used was neoprene 1/8in from Amazon. I thought it would work, but I found out it wasn't NEARLY soft enough, so it was basically useless. But his stuff is off the charts soft and works great as a decoupler of panels and MLV both. It's softer than the stuff you get in rolls to seal up windows even.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> Get some of nicks CCF, it is the best I have run into so far along with his CLD (resonix). The original CCF I used was neoprene 1/8in from Amazon. I thought it would work, but I found out it wasn't NEARLY soft enough, so it was basically useless. But his stuff is off the charts soft and works great as a decoupler of panels and MLV both. It's softer than the stuff you get in rolls to seal up windows even.
> View attachment 294537
> View attachment 294538


Found Nicks thread...will have to take some time to read it all, lol. Once you compress it, does it go back to it's original shape? It should return pretty fast, right?


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

When you say the 1/8 neoprene wasn't soft enough, how do you mean that? Not soft enough to contour around the shape of the vehicle or?


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

lithium said:


> I used it in the past and it held up great for me. It also tested well in the original testing on diyma. But i've seen a few thread now that might point towards issues with the product. I think I applied it well, cleaned the surfaces and all the correct steps, fingers crossed. Luckily it doesn't get as hot here in central IL so we will see.


It failed mostly on the door cards but also a bit in the trunk - cleaned with isopropyl. Knu's reply is quoted below:

"It's most likely that something in the chemical composition of the plastic is attacking the butyl. Sometimes we see this when the surface was prepped with a de-greaser like simple green. "



619Tundra said:


> I bought a bunch of knukoncetz for my Tundra I'm ready to install. I have never heard of the product having problems. I weighs about 1 lbs. per square ft.


I didn't until mine failed 



http://imgur.com/a/PyufnEl


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Just getting into Nick's thread where he posted a video of his foam vs the rest. When he compresses his foam, it looks and acts very similar to memory foam.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

EricTundra said:


> Just getting into Nick's thread where he posted a video of his foam vs the rest. When he compresses his foam, it looks and acts very similar to memory foam.


It feels extremely similar to memory foam but it compresses easier than most memory foams I've played with. The cell structure is interesting. If you look close, the bottom toward the backing and adhesive are much larger cells with the cells becoming smaller and more compact as it gets toward the surface.
And when I say softer, you said it the best. The neoprene will bend easily and will compress somewhat. But won't compress nearly as easily as the stuff nick has.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

EricTundra said:


> Just getting into Nick's thread where he posted a video of his foam vs the rest. When he compresses his foam, it looks and acts very similar to memory foam.


















Comparison of the 2 foams. The neoprene took more force to compress (the resonix compressed completely before the neoprene started to) and the neoprene bounced right back as if it wasn't compressed at all.
I ended up using the neoprene behind some panels before I upholstered them to make it sort of soft touch. Worked great for that. But I took all of the neoprene I was using to decouple out of the car and replaced with the resonix.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> View attachment 294572
> View attachment 294573
> 
> Comparison of the 2 foams. The neoprene took more force to compress (the resonix compressed completely before the neoprene started to) and the neoprene bounced right back as if it wasn't compressed at all.
> I ended up using the neoprene behind some panels before I upholstered them to make it sort of soft touch. Worked great for that. But I took all of the neoprene I was using to decouple out of the car and replaced with the resonix.


Now the million dollar question is: Was there a practical noticeable difference between the neoprene and then replacing it with Resonix?


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

EricTundra said:


> Now the million dollar question is: Was there a practical noticeable difference between the neoprene and then replacing it with Resonix?


Well, I didnt take any sort of noise floor measurements. Mainly cause getting a controlled test in my car is almost impossible where I am right now. Live in a city and too loud outside haha.
But I would bet my shirt on it just because of the mechanisms of decoupling the barrier shown by Justin in his testing.
It absolutely did when it comes to panel fitment and rattling though.


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## 619Tundra (Sep 24, 2020)

Is STP a good product?


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> Well, I didnt take any sort of noise floor measurements. Mainly cause getting a controlled test in my car is almost impossible where I am right now. Live in a city and too loud outside haha.
> But I would bet my shirt on it just because of the mechanisms of decoupling the barrier shown by Justin in his testing.
> It absolutely did when it comes to panel fitment and rattling though.


Now are we talking about a work shirt, as in working on my truck shirt, or a formal dinner shirt? I'm a 17 1/2 XXL


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

EricTundra said:


> Now are we talking about a work shirt, as in working on my truck shirt, or a formal dinner shirt? I'm a 17 1/2 XXL


Car sales havent been so hot this month, so I may have to meet you somewhere in the middle with a polo hahah


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> Car sales havent been so hot this month, so I may have to meet you somewhere in the middle with a polo hahah


Gotta find some Grapes, lol.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

619Tundra said:


> Is STP a good product?


Did a quick search and seems that STP-Atlantic plays a large part in the development of Noico, Kilmat, and Mat66, all quality products. They also sell under their own name but at a slightly higher price than Kilmat although it looks pretty much idetical and is also 80 mil. If it were me, and wow, it is me, I'd go the Kilmat route, save a couple of bucks. So-Cal Speed Shop Northwest uses STP, and they turn out some nice rods. Hope that helps.


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

Noico/kilmat is asphalt based and not worth wasting your money on.


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## Picassotheimpaler (Sep 21, 2014)

Turb0Yoda said:


> Noico/kilmat is asphalt based and not worth wasting your money on.


I didn't have any issues with kilmat being asphalt based (not saying it isnt). It didn't run, it didn't smell. It just BARELY worked. And I got the "better/thicker" stuff.
I actually pealed all of the butyl compound from the backing to use as rope after I decided not to use it for cld. But I even threw that away. When I went to stretch and roll it out, it looked like CCF made of butyl. All air bubbles.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

No offense but PA isn’t exactly hot compared to FL or AZ to speak to it running. I’m in TN and it doesn’t get near as hot but I still had running with some old RAAMAT in my previous car. After my wife and I had several pairs of pants ruined, I will never go cheap on whatever I put in the doors.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Turb0Yoda said:


> Noico/kilmat is asphalt based and not worth wasting your money on.


Noico is a question mark regarding asphalt content. They say it doesn't have asphalt in it, but I know they at least used to have an asphalt coating - not sure if they phased that out in their latest iteration or what? One review on Amazon posted this year stated that there was a smell of asphalt, so personally I would not take the chance with Noico. Kilmat on the other hand is butyl based and has never had any asphalt content as far as I know. If you have evidence contrary to this, please post a link.


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## Turb0Yoda (Jan 4, 2019)

Fair enough- while it may not be asphalt based it would not surprise me if it was made partially of it - or at the very least a subpar butyl formula that doesn't dampen very well or last long.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

Turb0Yoda said:


> Fair enough- while it may not be asphalt based it would not surprise me if it was made partially of it - or at the very least a subpar butyl formula that doesn't dampen very well or last long.


I'm wondering if Noico's claim of not being asphalt based is legally true since an asphalt coating does not mean its asphalt based? If they are playing with words, it's just another reason to avoid them. Geez people, just be straight with us!


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

When I asked the Noico folks if there was ANY asphalt in the product at all, I was told that there was NOT. I've had Noico in one of my cars for years, even on the roof and have never had any issues whatsoever. No smell, no melting, no running, nothing. Just my experience. I liked Noico enough to put it in my new Challenger as well (CLD and CCF). For me and my uses, the product is fine. It's easy to work with, inexpensive and just seems to work. I know one thing, knocking on my doors, it now sounds like my doors are filled with concrete.  

I've never seen any evidence that there IS any asphalt in the Noico product - so I can only go by what the Noico people tell me and my experience, which has been good.... 

Also - it seems that some people confuse the rubbery smell with an asphalt smell.


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

"I know one thing, knocking on my doors, it now sounds like my doors are filled with concrete. "

That's one of the main reasons I looked into sound dampening in the first place. It's pretty impressive what that'll do even for the sound quality of stock speakers.


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

Yeah, I mean I really don't know how much the "knock test" really tells you about how well the CLD does it's job, but the difference was staggering on my Challenger. It has huge doors made with very thin sheet metal and before I installed the Noico, it was crazy-hollow-sounding when you knocked on it. After the Noico, like I said, it sounds like they are filled with concrete when you knock on them.  I completely understand that Noico isn't the best CLD out there, but for me and my uses/goals, Noico seems to work well, is easy to install and doesn't break the back - no complaints here.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Picassotheimpaler said:


> It feels extremely similar to memory foam but it compresses easier than most memory foams I've played with. The cell structure is interesting. If you look close, the bottom toward the backing and adhesive are much larger cells with the cells becoming smaller and more compact as it gets toward the surface.
> And when I say softer, you said it the best. The neoprene will bend easily and will compress somewhat. But won't compress nearly as easily as the stuff nick has.


Wait till you see our new version. It's the same foam, except the adhesive is on the skinned side, and the side that gets skived is open. I'd say it's at least twice as soft now. Soft enough that I'm thinking about upping the thickness to 10mm on the next batch. It's that soft, yet retains the ideal compression set (how it "bounces back")

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

When is it going to be available? I’m ready to buy


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## EricTundra (Feb 19, 2021)

SkizeR said:


> Wait till you see our new version. It's the same foam, except the adhesive is on the skinned side, and the side that gets skived is open. I'd say it's at least twice as soft now. Soft enough that I'm thinking about upping the thickness to 10mm on the next batch. It's that soft, yet retains the ideal compression set (how it "bounces back")
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Hi Nick,

you were originally shooting for around $2.30 a square foot if I remember correctly? Where do we stand today? I know Covid has thrown everyone a loop, so I expect it to be a bit higher? Btw, subbed to your channel yesterday ;-)

If you have a torn up piece of the new stuff, would you be willing to send it to me for a simple experiment I am going to do with a variety of sound dampening product? I need at least 1.5 square feet of each type of material. Probably gonna take a while to get stuff sent to me as most people use all they buy, lol. 

Here's the thread: 2021 product comparison for sound dampening experiment.


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