# 2001 Honda S2000 Single Seat



## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

...this one is tuned for the driver 

*Caution*, this thread contains mostly lots and lots of 1mb pictures!


This build is a pure scientific application. 
*
Problem*: _Maximize output_ while _minimizing distortion_ such that the following _constraints_ are met:

1. no component hinders the driving experience
2. trunk and cabin room remains unchanged
3. budget < $3,000
4. time from start to finish < 100 hours
5. weight gain <100lbs
6. current draw < OEM alternator capacity (105amps)
7. car can be returned to OEM state
8. 80% removable in under 5 minutes for track use
9. stealth when parked for safety
10. sources: GPS, Bluetooth Audio, USB, MP3 CD, Radio, Aux
11. decent soundstage
12. reliable


The car is a pristine condition early model S2000. I got it in March 2010 with less than 20,000 miles. I like it for its raw nature, no floppy paddle gearbox, no traction control, no seat warmers, just lightweight, open air and free revving. 

*Stock pictures: *
2010 @ Streets of Willow Raceway
































































Stock speaker system, in its entirety:


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Here is the list of all parts over $25:

Pioneer P99 Headunit $950 NEW
Pioneer Bluetooth adapter $150 NEW 
Clarion XH7110 Monoblock amplifier $180 Slightly USED
Clarion XH5410 4 channel amplifier $160 Slightly USED x2
B&C 6ndl44 7" midbass $110 NEW x2
AE IB12A-8 Subwoofer $110 NEW x3
BH NEO8 $70 NEW x2
Vifa NE19VTS $25 NEW x2 
Resin $30
Fiberglass $40
Birch Plywood $35
Leather wrapping job for pillar pods $150
Monster Cable RCA $45
Ensolite $50
Ramat $30
Carpet $25
Anderson Powerpole connectors $45
Modifry IR adaptor $80

Total $2870 + cheap items, constraint number 3 satisfied!


*Completed project pictures:*

Passenger side pillar pod with tweeter+suppertweeter










Passenger side midbass










Driver side pod










Driver side midbass:


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

What is up with the A pillars..... can you post some pics of the amps...thanks


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

What about the a-pillars? 

I'll get some pics of the amp rack tonight.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

cvjoint said:


> What about the a-pillars?
> 
> I'll get some pics of the amp rack tonight.




Sorry, but they look out of place and very bulky


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

*The subwoofer/amp setup*

The enclosure design is infinite baffle. The idea is stolen from home audio, where guys have been setting up their attics to act as an oversize subwoofer enclosure. The ideas behind this design are so illuminating it truly created a cult-like following: "Cult of the Infinitely Baffled"Hear The Bass, Not The Box The definitive online resource for Infinite Baffle subwoofer designEstablished 1999 - Home

In a car there really isn't enough room anywhere to truly get "infinite" airspace. Generally you need 10x VAS to get the real thing. My 5ft3 trunk barely provides adequate room for the three 12"s. The resulting Q is .7. What is the benefit then? The benefit is that I get to use the entire trunk space as a subwoofer box. It sounds ideal empty, and ok when filled with grocery bags. Without the infinite baffle arrangement I could never give three 12"s enough room to breathe. 

A second benefit lies in the weight savings. Instead of fiberglassing a big 5ft3 box I only had to fiberglass about 1/3 of it. The rest of the box is the actual trunk sheet metal. On top of the box savings the subwoofers used in this arrangements are also lighter. Big box subwoofers do not need huge motors/magnets to push the cone against a small box's air. The IB12s I'm using weigh just 15lbs a piece. Here are all three subs weighed with the removable baffle:


















This baffle screws into a fiberglass cage that together with the trunk walls provide an enclosure. Total weight is 60lbs or so total. The baffle you see in the picture is three 3/4 birch sheets screwed and glued together. I had to countersink one of the subs to make all three clear the trunk lid support arms. 



















The baffle mounts with 4 roof construction self tapping screws straight into the fiberglass cage. Here is what the cage looks like in the car:




























The cage has two purposes. One is to hold the removable baffle. That means it has to be strong. It is at least 7 layers of fiberglass cloth and it is held with bolts against the chassis. Further support comes from the pressure fitment. The cage does not come out of the car easily as it has dampening layers over it and carpet. Lastly together with the aluminum butyl dampening sheets it seals the trunk from the interior of the car when the baffle is bolted in. Here is the final look without the baffle attached:










Behind the subs, where the spare used to go, I installed the amp rack. The amp rack is hooked up to the car wiring with quick disconnects. It is held in place by pressure fitment and one wing nut. It holds three full size Clarion amplifiers for a total of 1,500w continuous. It holds power splitters as well for a combined total weight of 35lbs:










Removed from the car:










*
Benefits of this design:*
*Sub baffle and amplifier rack are removable in <3 minutes(good for track days)
*Sturdy design, no movement whatsoever even under high G forces (rattles minimized)
*Combined sub+amp arrangement is <100lbs
*Combined net weight after spare and toolbox removal <70lbs
*Net trunk space lost after spare and toolbox removal 0 ft3. 
*All the weight is directly over the rear axle
*Weight location mimics spare and toolbox distribution
*Easy to service, and tweak
*Great low end extension with 5ft3 available, all the way down to 20hz
*Great output with 3 twelves, will handle 1200w or so continuous
*Waterproof (cones are treated, amps are hidden)
*Great cooling (amplifiers are in the cabin side)
*Back wave vents to the cabin through a 3ft x 1ft opening under the softop (little excursion noise, rattles, and output is amazing)

*Drawbacks:*
*Exposed cones can get dented (thinking of grille idea, ideas welcomed)
*Subwoofer back wave can be free-er if the amplifiers were located somewhere else (not sure it would be noticeable)
*Can't make quick amplifier adjustments (however, all filters are bypassed, gains are maxed out on the low setting, up front bass gain installed, the rest is done in the headunit which is very easily accessible)
*Can't forget top down on a rainy day or amplifiers get soaked
*I had to remove trunk springs, so the lid cannot hold itself open (I'm thinking of installing trunk shocks)

I have even more detailed build pictures that will be discussed at some point. 


Thanks for viewing!


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## ryomanx (Feb 18, 2011)

I like the quick disconnect setup track day but isn't easier to get robbed too?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

trojan fan said:


> Sorry, but they look out of place and very bulky


They are a bit larger than I would like them to be. However, from the driver seat the viewing area is the same as without them. The design is such that from the driver seat they don't cover the windshield or the side windows. From a practical point of view there is no viewing area lost. 

The size allows a proper enclosure space for the BG Neo8. There are 2-4 inches depth behind the planars. Like the manufacturer recommended, I added a 1 inch open cell foam pad 1/2 inch from the back. These high-mid,low tweeter speakers can cover 200hz - 18,000hz with a little EQ. With the enclosure space I gave them I insured there is no low end peaking no matter what the intended frequency range. 

Even if the Neo 8 is skinny, the 3/4 supertweeter above it is not. It's over an inch deep, and once you account for the enclosure thickness and padding it gets to be this bulky. 

Could I make them thinner? Yes, I would have to get rid of the top tweeter and have the top end roll off. The bottom end would be peaky and ring. As it sits there are no practical drawbacks since I still get all my window space. The passenger viewing area is reduced but the it still clears the airbag and allows for all other mechanisms, like the top, sunvisor etc to be operated. 

You can design a 1 inch tweeter to get in the way of driving a lot more. I had several s2000 drivers stay in my car or walk about and not even notice the pillars. Once they sat down and I told them about it they were amazed how free the viewing area was from the driver's seat. Boost gauges in the pillars are way way more intrusive. 

Ultimately it's all tradeoffs, but I like the ones I made so far. If they ever design a proper Neo 3 I might implement those in a line array and maybe shave an inch of depth.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

ryomanx said:


> I like the quick disconnect setup track day but isn't easier to get robbed too?


Yes and no. From the outside the car looks very stock. The headunit is hidden behind a bland black lid. The phone is disconnected. The pillars really blend in with the black interior. I think for the most part it's really hard to tell there is a system in there. 

If someone does choose to break in they will have to make do with my custom alarm. I put it together myself, it has several backups, it's hidden in non conventional areas and the harness is mixed with the OEM harnesses. 

Say they do get past it, it's not quite clear someone would venture to think there are amplifiers behind the subs, or that there are subs in the trunk. The pillar speakers are odd and not very expensive for resale. I would miss the headunit for sure. 

Generally, an S2000 is not a good target for audio stealing. The target is usually the $6000 Recaro seats. I have some tricks implemented for those too.

I might also add that the disconnects are not really much of a benefit for a thief. Don't they just cut the wires anyway? It can't save more than 10 seconds. It does however save hours at the track.


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## ryomanx (Feb 18, 2011)

cvjoint said:


> Yes and no. From the outside the car looks very stock. The headunit is hidden behind a bland black lid. The phone is disconnected. The pillars really blend in with the black interior. I think for the most part it's really hard to tell there is a system in there.
> 
> If someone does choose to break in they will have to make do with my custom alarm. I put it together myself, it has several backups, it's hidden in non conventional areas and the harness is mixed with the OEM harnesses.
> 
> ...


True. A thieves usually bring their cable cutters to work with them.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

When they tried to jack my system in the BMW, they failed miserably with no tools. The entire amp rack was held with a zero gauge wiring. They pulled and pulled but couldn't get it. Thank god they had no snips. . Nice install George


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## josby (May 8, 2011)

Very cool! I'm preparing to start an install in my yellow AP2 using some of the same components (P99RS w/Bluetooth) and some of the same goals (no loss of cabin or trunk space, no permanent modifications). I hope you won't mind answering some questions I have about your build:

1) Any issues with getting the P99RS to fit? Crutchfield's site indicated the radio door might not have room to close, but I am hoping that's not the case.

2) Did you choose to mount the mic from your Bluetooth kit? If so, where did you mount it, and how does it sound to those you call?

3) Can you share some pics of the mounting of the 7" mid? I'm kind of surprised it fit without mods.

4) Can you share some pics of your BXT II/Ensolite installation? I am planning to use those too and have ordered about the same quantity you did - what's your opinion on how much of an improvement it made?

5) The carpet on your sub baffle looks like a much closer match to the OEM carpet than many others' pics I've seen - can you provide details on where I can buy some of that?

6) I'm planning to mount my phone in that same place with Modifry's mount. It looks like you ran your USB cable into the dash for a clean look, and I want to do that too. Can you share pics and/or details on how you did that?

Thanks a million!


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Veddy NICE... 


I never thought to weigh my subs and baffle... DOH.. 

I've got as much, if not more weight in deadening as I do GEAR though.. lol..


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

BigRed said:


> When they tried to jack my system in the BMW, they failed miserably with no tools. The entire amp rack was held with a zero gauge wiring. They pulled and pulled but couldn't get it. Thank god they had no snips. . Nice install George


Hi Jim! You used the zero gauge to hold your amps in place? Haha, well it works. I can't believe they had no wire cutters, but lucky for you. I can't stand thieves, especially audio thieves, it's not like they are stealing bread for their families. Probably just punk kids. 



josby said:


> Very cool! I'm preparing to start an install in my yellow AP2 using some of the same components (P99RS w/Bluetooth) and some of the same goals (no loss of cabin or trunk space, no permanent modifications). I hope you won't mind answering some questions I have about your build:
> 
> 1) Any issues with getting the P99RS to fit? Crutchfield's site indicated the radio door might not have room to close, but I am hoping that's not the case.
> 
> ...


I'll answer a few for now, I have to write up the rest or take more pics. Eventually I'll answer all of them.

1. I had to modify the OEM brackets. If you don't the door won't close, at least in my AP1. The way I did it was to create slots in the brackets as opposed to holes. The back screw barely catches on to the bracket. It's a very tight fit. The wires don't even fit behind the head, they kinda extend under the steering wheel.

2. Bluetooth mic is mounted at the corner of the lid on the bottom on the driver's side. That way the lid up or down positions don't cover it. I'll take a pic of this. Sounds great! The problem with the Pioneer Btooth module is that it is very quirky. Sometimes it will decide to use the phone speaker instead of the car speakers for no reason. Sometimes it won't connect. Beats me, it's just half assed imo. The Eclipse bluetooth was a lot more reliable, although this seems to sound just as good if not better than the Eclipse when it does work. It fails about 1/20 times, not too bad. 

3. Coming up, the 7 is a very tight fit. You may want to use the 18sound 7" for an easier fit and comparable performance.

4. Coming up. Ensolite is great, but it's usefulness depends on the application. 

5. A friend of mine owns a shop, he got me the whole roll cheap. I can give you his # if you want to get the brand. Here's what I recommend. Grab the trunk toolbox cover that's easily removable and carpet covered. Take it to a bunch of local shops and have them match it. 

6. I had to drill a whole in the instrument panel. The Modifry mount does not require it but getting the usb to it does. I figured I can get a round black plastic cover on it to return it to stockish looking. That, or I'd have to build the plastic back up or get that trim from the junk yard. Pics comming up. 



Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX said:


> Veddy NICE...
> 
> 
> I never thought to weigh my subs and baffle... DOH..
> ...


Thanks! 

Here was my ideology for deadening in this car: fiberglass where support is needed (baffles), open cell foam where water can't come in (tweeter pod, and over the wheel wells and tank pump), closed cell to dampen plastic panels (where water can get to). I used the aluminum and butyl backing only where the panels vibrated or little holes needed to be covered for IB separation (less than 15lbs total). If you don't count the fiberglass as deadening since it's purpose is for structure, all my deadening is under 20lbs. 


I never lined up the bottom of the car or trunk with Dynamat unless I had to for air leaks. The benefits in road noise reduction are not worth driving a heavy car around. If I started with an S-class Mercedes I'd probably dump a lot of Dynamat in it. But then I would never buy a heavy car. Driving is the bulk of the fun in a car really, not worth getting 2db of sound suppression.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

First I'm going to finish off the driver choice ideas for the subwoofer and then I'll go into the door build for the midbass drivers. 

*Acoustic Elegance IB12-A8*
These were the best choice that I could find for my car for several reasons. The goal here was to find three 12"s that have loads of output and low distortion while weighing as little as possible and use a basket and magnet assembly that fits between the chassis, soft top mechanism and allows the amplifiers to get mounted there as well. 


We had Matt @ ID Klippel test these drivers here:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/klippel-reviews-driver-specs/91158-acoustic-elegance-ib12-8-a.html

The biggest design advantage of the AE speakers are of course the full copper sleve on the motor. This is a patented design as far as I know, and for good reasons. The benefit is low inductance, which in turn gives more useful bandwidth (good up to 1,000hz I would think), and low intermodular distortion. On this second point I must stop and elaborate on one myth, that subwoofer distortion is not that important. Say we generate a test tone of 50hz. If the subwoofer has lots of resonance and IMD harmonics will be generated that are well within our audible range. 2nd order distortion for this tone will occur at 100hz, 3rd at 150hz etc. The fourth harmonic will be very audible if loud enough. The thing is, in most cars subwoofers are set to play at much higher output than the rest of the speakers. That 4th order harmonic at 200hz will be loud and very noticeable. The lambda motor and low resonance parts used these AE subs are very low distortion. 

Second the motor is superb. BL looks better the Peerless XXLS, a long time reference, and slightly better than the Dayton RS. I could probably count on my fingers the subwoofers out there that have a flatter BL than this, and most of them weigh 30lbs+ which is at least twice as much. 

*The B&C 6ndl44*

The pictures at the supplier are much better than I can take:
B&C 6NDL44 6-1/2" Neodymium Woofer

This is an older version of the 6ndl38. The only difference that I could find on them is that my version has more output capability, lower sensitivity (.5db) but given 50w RMS more it more than makes up for it (1db louder). Net gain is .5db, and they were $30 cheaper to boot. 

Based on my modeling and research this is the ultimate 7" 80hz-5,000hz. What I mean by that is that it has the most output and the lowest distortion over that range. There are however better choices for a 7" used 80hz and bellow, like the CSS SDX7, the EXODUS 7" and Peerless SLS 7". None of them fit in an S2000 and I don't see the point of crossing 7"s that low anyway, they have almost no usable output. In fact I use mine 100hz and up with a very steep slope. 

It's 8" brother was Klippel tested as well:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/klippel-reviews-driver-specs/9804-bc-8ndl51-8-8-a.html

This is using the best engineering there is out there and makes all the right tradeoffs. I think the shorting ring in this one is a bit basic but an upgrade will produce a minor improvement I would think. On the Klippel, it's one of the few speakers in production that has a legitimate Xmax claim. The only 7" that comes close to this is the 18Sound 7". It seems hard to get in the U.S. and the xmax is not as good. Even the physical basket clearance is smaller, which means less xmech. 



Fitment in the S2000
A bit of a pain, but manageable. My S2000 came with 6.25" full range drivers:










Here is the door panel:









The full documentation on what this car can fit, and naked pictures are here:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-sq-forum-technical-advanced/86039-check-out-pics-let-me-know-what-you-think-2010-a.html

*Fiberglass baffle*
I simply fiberglassed over the stock door as it is, with the plastic spacer from factory. This means that my mold would be larger than the spacer, yet centered properly to clear the door panel. While I could have made a tiny one, I had a much larger "L" shaped mold design in mind. When held in place with metal screws, this large baffle has much more structural support than your average MDF spacer. Since it grips on a wide area over the sheet metal it rattles the door mechanisms a lot less. Initially I wanted to fiberglass the whole inner door skin but I came to the conclusion that it would provide very little extra support and may impede the panel from fitting back on. 

1. Use the good quality glass painter's tape, always: 

















2. Fiberglass over a larger area then intended, you can always trim excess fiberglass later:









3. Remove mold. Trim excess fiberglass. Remove stock plastic spacer. Use fence cutting scissors to slice the door sheet metal. This last step is needed since the B&C speaker has a big basket. Additionally every good install allows for a lot of airflow behind a speaker, so don't be stingy and slice it. That inner metal is not the safety piece for the car. Bend the slices of metal in. To return to OEM years later just bend them back and mount the plastic spacer on it. Add dynamat before that if you want it to be as stiff or stiffer than oem. Use metal screws to bolt the mold to the car sheet metal. Add deadner over the mold, the sliced sheet metal and into the door. You want the back wave of the speaker to vent inside the door, not behind the door panel. Many things going on here and I only have one picture but this is a <100 hour project remember.










4. Add your deadner of choice to isolate the front wave from the back wave of the speaker. This means cover all the holes as long as it doesn't impede door operation. Isolating the two waves will give you less cancellation - more output. The deadner also strengthens the baffle, again giving you more output. Finally it reduces rattles and road noise, both very good things. I only add a layer, consequent layers do nothing other than reduce roadnoise if your fiberglass baffle is large enough. 










5. The window stopper mounted on the glass did not require any trimming. Say thank you to B&C for investing lots of resources to design that small and brutish neo magnet. You do however have to trim the door panel on the inside. The trick is to remove only what is needed. Leave the rest of the plastic to maintain some door structural support. That way if you kick the door getting out it wont break in. 










Note how much of the front wave is blocked by that screw right in the middle. Because of that, and other reasons I recommend you restrict the upper response of the speaker as much as possible. I use mine only up to 1,600hz. The pillar pods take over from there, those are completely urestricted. Another downside to putting a door panel over the speaker is that a lot of the front wave will bet stuck between the door and panel. There will be resonance. If you are hardcore fiberglass the panel itself and mount the speaker over it. That's what I did in my much higher budget and time expense Accord:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/329601-post167.html

6. Wrap the inside of the door panel in Ensolite. This will absorb the front wave that gets trapped in the door panel to some extent. It will also prevent the panel from rattling. I haven't done this yet, ran out of budgeted time, but I have no rattles. 

Window rolls down no problem. I have no water damage to report. The suckers pound. I have used them up to 5khz, they sounded ok.


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## winegamd (Mar 3, 2010)

subbed


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

*The Droid X/ Pioneer P99 Symbiosis *

This combo is IMO lethal in just about every way. I picked the Droid X mostly because it was the biggest screen on the market with Google's turn by turn voice guidance. This gives me a 4'3" GPS unit that is hard to beat. Combined with the Pioneer Bluetooth unit they work together as if they are one unit. I play music off the 32gb SD card in the phone, while the GPS application is running. Whenever I get to the next turn the music cuts off, GPS lady comes on, makes her point and I get to my destination. The audio quality on the bluetooth is good enough that I can't tell whether it's the USB or the BT. This is one way of getting a 32gb harddrive, GPS, music player, blue tooth phone calls, and 8 channel music processor into an S2000 easily. 

The P99 is a single din that fits in very tight in the S2000. You will have to slot the OEM side mounts to make it slide back enough for the lid to close. No pics here as it is pretty straight forward.

The Droid X mount is a two part process:_ Verizon Droid X Genuine Belt Holder + Modifry's GPS bracket._ 

Outside of the car, ready to be mounted:










The back is where all the work was done. I pre-drilled two holes for the ACE supply black painted beauty screws. The mount is basically attached to the belt holder clip. this ensures the phone can still rotate for either vertical or horizontal use. Since the belt holder is made so that the phone mounts face in, face out as needed in a car needs some trimming if you want the USB port, and volume buttons to be accessible. 



















The simplicity of this design hides it's true potential. The holder has the same sort of tough yet friction free coating the phone has. This means it's a blast to operate and it's squeak free. There are no rattles coming from this mount and depending on app it can be used vertically or horizontally. The Modifry bracket does not require the dash be modified in any way so it can be returned back to stock by simply removing the mount. The location is also optimized, high enough to be away from the shifter, but low enough to be accessed by a simple wrist move. It also does not impede the lid or fan controls from operating. Very OEMish. 

I did drill a small hole to get the USB connector from the head to the phone. This ensures I can use the GPS for unlimited miles without the battery taking a poop on me. So I use it mostly to charge the phone although it can be used to channel distortion free music to the head. The hadunit uses a standard usb jack. A custom mini usb was ordered that has the right degree bend for clutter free operation. 










*The Music Player*

I use the Android Winamp application for many reasons. 
1. I can control it from the dash buttons so it can be operated safely while driving. If I push mute on the dash quick access panel, an IR signal is sent through the Modifry chip to the P99 head. From the head the signal is sent to the phone through BT. I can change tracks on the phone this way or change source and volume on the head. 
2. Winamp is an amazing player, and I use it at home on the PC as well.

Main menu:









Scrolling through albums:









Song playback. A search can be done on any song and linked to Pandora, You Tube etc. 









Pandora. The music quality is inferior to the SD card music but acceptable. Verizon smartphone plans are unlimited so Pandora can be run 24/7. Reception is problematic in the mountains but world better than standard radio, and the quality is too. 










The guy is very nice although you get small adds from time to time.










Making calls:


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## jivitup (Nov 2, 2009)

The install looks great. So your doing my car next, yea?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

awesome George! cant wait to hear this one!!


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

The thread is hard to view, can you please resize your pics...thanks


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

simplicityinsound said:


> awesome George! cant wait to hear this one!!


Are you going to come down anytime soon? There is a meet on the 25th. I really can't ***** about it, I've only been up for Marv's. Speaking of which, is he alright? I haven't seen a thing about the meet in years. 



jivitup said:


> The install looks great. So your doing my car next, yea?


See this guy ^^ 
I love putting together systems but hate doing fiberglass. Most of my ideas require it too. 



trojan fan said:


> The thread is hard to view, can you please resize your pics...thanks


Sorry, I only gots 8mp on my phone


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## drocpsu (May 3, 2005)

none of the pics are working for me, for some reason.


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## rhannahs (Mar 5, 2011)

nice s2000


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

drocpsu said:


> none of the pics are working for me, for some reason.


Should work. They are best viewed with Firefox, or a browser that resizes pictures to fit the page. Some of the Mac users say pictures show up full size all the time and it's hard to scroll.


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## davidt487 (Apr 8, 2009)

i think if you pay for pandora you lose the adds and they advertise better quality


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

davidt487 said:


> i think if you pay for pandora you lose the adds and they advertise better quality


I got excited but no go on the Android phones:
"

High Quality 192Kbps audio, on your computer only:

* on our website Pandora Radio - Listen to Free Internet Radio, Find New Music and
* when using the Pandora One Desktop Application.

Pandora mobile apps and in-home devices currently do not support High Quality 192Kbps streams."


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## davidt487 (Apr 8, 2009)

goood find i stand corrected


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

moar updates! i am going to use a LOT of this info in my S2k. i am gonna try more of a budget install, and will be using the kenwood x995 and my HTC evo4g. simple 2 way in the doors, 10" sub in pass footwell and xr5s amp over the gas tank. going for the stealthiest chicago install i can get with improvement in sound. w00t! thanks!


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## jaikai (Aug 8, 2011)

A bit off the topic but those are some sweet Recaros.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

vactor said:


> moar updates! i am going to use a LOT of this info in my S2k. i am gonna try more of a budget install, and will be using the kenwood x995 and my HTC evo4g. simple 2 way in the doors, 10" sub in pass footwell and xr5s amp over the gas tank. going for the stealthiest chicago install i can get with improvement in sound. w00t! thanks!


The next update is mid September, I'm doing a euro tour and it's just too much fun. For example, I raced on the Nurburgring yesterday! The planned setup looks good, post it up. 



jaikai said:


> A bit off the topic but those are some sweet Recaros.


At the S2000 meets that's one of the hottest topics. They are good enough for a supercar. They also cost that much and get stolen through cut soft-tops all the time.


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## jaikai (Aug 8, 2011)

Dang those thieving bastards!

Nurburgring sounds like a blast. Looking forward to your next update.


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## aV8ter (Sep 4, 2009)

How are you liking the change to 6.5'' SLSs? How hard was it to drop them in the doors? Still behind the stock grill?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

aV8ter said:


> How are you liking the change to 6.5'' SLSs? How hard was it to drop them in the doors? Still behind the stock grill?


The SLS's are fantastic for midbass duty. I really wish they were lighter for this car but the performance is amazing, worthy tradeoff. 

To fit them in these doors you need to shave the door panel, and cut or fan the door sheet metal so that the basket goes through. It does not require window stopper trimming so the door works just as well. In this car there really isn't any reason not to use the stock grill/door panel. You gain nothing by chopping it off. It protects the speaker and looks stock. Even if you are willing to chop the door panel it's not like you can fit 8", the door locks and controls are in the way. 

I did not use an MDF spacer to fit it but one can be used. With my fiberglass mold I get more rigidity for the baffle than with a spacer and better separation of the front and rear waves.


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## aV8ter (Sep 4, 2009)

cvjoint said:


> The SLS's are fantastic for midbass duty. I really wish they were lighter for this car but the performance is amazing, worthy tradeoff.
> 
> To fit them in these doors you need to shave the door panel, and cut or fan the door sheet metal so that the basket goes through. It does not require window stopper trimming so the door works just as well. In this car there really isn't any reason not to use the stock grill/door panel. You gain nothing by chopping it off. It protects the speaker and looks stock. Even if you are willing to chop the door panel it's not like you can fit 8", the door locks and controls are in the way.
> 
> I did not use an MDF spacer to fit it but one can be used. With my fiberglass mold I get more rigidity for the baffle than with a spacer and better separation of the front and rear waves.



Cool beans. I am actually going to be putting the sls6.5 in my integra doors with the 4'' exclusives and xt19s in the kick panels.

I am planning out what to do with my rio yellow 05 right now. Just going to do a simple 2 way+sub active using stock locations and running the sub in the hole in the rear floor.

Was thinking these ~7'' for the doors(discontinued but still available at solen):

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?PartNumber=299-225
And these in the stock tweeter locations:

Vifa OX20SC00-04 3/4" Fabric Dome Tweeter


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

aV8ter said:


> Cool beans. I am actually going to be putting the sls6.5 in my integra doors with the 4'' exclusives and xt19s in the kick panels.
> 
> I am planning out what to do with my rio yellow 05 right now. Just going to do a simple 2 way+sub active using stock locations and running the sub in the hole in the rear floor.
> 
> ...


You are better off with a truncated design. This is a bit deeper but cheap and truncated:

Peerless 831735 6-1/2" HDS Driver


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Some pictures that stopped working for some unknown reason:

This is the Modifry GPS adapter mated to a Motorola Droid X belt holder:


















Final result with mini USB wired up from the headunit. That allows charging as well as mass storage connection. It uses the onboard 32gb mini SD in the phone as a thumb drive. 










Using Winamp for music playback. It allows Bluetooth remote control, which means I can use the dash mounted knobs to control not only the headunit but also the phone:










These are the OEM knobs ran through a Modifiry adapter that allows interaction with any remote controlled headunit:










This is the firewall grommet you want to use to run wires through the cabin. I have a 1/0 gauge through there as well as many other radar detector and alarm cables.










Main wire harness complete with Anderson Powerpoles disconnects, wire loom, heat shrink, etc:










The modular design allows you to make any type of connector you want. Make sure you single out power cables from signal cables. 











A failed experiment. I cut out huge chunks of plastic out of the rear tray to allow bass frequencies to pass through. This would also stop the rattles from the plastic panels a bit. I wrapped it in Ensolite thinking it will not only waterproof the amps if it rains with the top down but that it would allow the bass frequencies to go through with very little absorbtion and therefore little loss of output. 



















Reasons why it didn't work:

Ensolite absorbs a lot more than I thought so output was very low. Secondly the ensolite and panel formed it's own membrane and created lots of unwanted air displacement. Rattles were still really bad. 

So the tray is gone. Instead of waterproofing I might get some marine amplifiers next. IMO you can't use the rear tray if you want any sort of quality output from your subwoofer. That thing cripples sound quality and output. Any membrane that keeps water out is probably too beefy to be transparent. 


Next up, pillar pod construction and test results of the whole car.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I wish I would have had a chance to listen to this car at the last meet. My mind was somewhere else that day, specifically debating if I should throw the MS8 out the window on the I5. Hopefully next time.

What were you driving on the Nurburgring. I can't imagine you shipped the S2000 over there, right?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

BuickGN said:


> I wish I would have had a chance to listen to this car at the last meet. My mind was somewhere else that day, specifically debating if I should throw the MS8 out the window on the I5. Hopefully next time.
> 
> What were you driving on the Nurburgring. I can't imagine you shipped the S2000 over there, right?


You can at the next meet.  

I rented a 3.0 BMW Z4 that was track prepped. It is about as fast as my car so I got a good idea how fun it would be to have the S2000 there. Hella slow compared to the Porsche GT2s that were flying around there but fun nonetheless.


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## mrzapco (May 27, 2011)

is this is a daily driver or dedicated track car?


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

> Any membrane that keeps water out is probably too beefy to be transparent.


Have you considered something like a sunbrella fabric? Should be acoustically transparent to bass and pretty water repellant....

Nice car and system


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

mrzapco said:


> is this is a daily driver or dedicated track car?


One and only car. They won't allow me to park two cars at gradschool. That and obviously the gradschool paychecks are modest. When I graduate I'm thinking of getting a 4 seater, maybe the new Scion FR-S or Subaru BRZ. Then I can really have fun with the S, eventually I want to have a 7.0 L supercharged Vette engine in it. It seems feasible and street legal. 



danno14 said:


> Have you considered something like a sunbrella fabric? Should be acoustically transparent to bass and pretty water repellant....
> 
> Nice car and system


Hmm, marine type fabrics, interesting. Which one do you have in mind? 

Thanks!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> You can at the next meet.
> 
> I rented a 3.0 BMW Z4 that was track prepped. It is about as fast as my car so I got a good idea how fun it would be to have the S2000 there. Hella slow compared to the Porsche GT2s that were flying around there but fun nonetheless.


When were you out there? I took my cousin's boyfriend out for some laps when they were here. We rented a Scirocco and beat the piss out of that poor car.  My M3 was AMAZING on the Ring. I can't wait to take my MINI out there.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> When were you out there? I took my cousin's boyfriend out for some laps when they were here. We rented a Scirocco and beat the piss out of that poor car.  My M3 was AMAZING on the Ring. I can't wait to take my MINI out there.


August, around the 8th or 9th. I did see one of the Scirocco's passing me at a decent pace. The others I had no problem passing. Oddly enough the bimmer wasn't faster in the straights, I suppose there was a great weight difference. If I redlined it I would catch a bit of distance. 

The best part about the ring is that it's a toll road. There is a certain embrace of real life unfolding that California law would never tolerate. I would love to fill up a 5 seater and roll it down the ring. On some tracks here you can't even have one passenger.


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## Sean Morrison (May 27, 2007)

I'm really digging the 3 12's infinite baffle. It kinda looks like the A-pillars would block the view a little though, and the path length difference isn't ideal. But if it sounds good and looks the way you want it then that's all that counts.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Sean Morrison said:


> I'm really digging the 3 12's infinite baffle. It kinda looks like the A-pillars would block the view a little though, and the path length difference isn't ideal. But if it sounds good and looks the way you want it then that's all that counts.


I can see the edges of the windshield from the driver's seat. That's as good as it gets. The pillars in this car are already 4 inches wide. It's built like that so it doesn't bend if you roll over. The passengers surely get their view blocked because I aimed the pod at myself. All about the driver!

Ideal pahtlengths are only implementable in a center seat car. I don't have money for a McLaren F1 so this will have to do.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> August, around the 8th or 9th. I did see one of the Scirocco's passing me at a decent pace. The others I had no problem passing. Oddly enough the bimmer wasn't faster in the straights, I suppose there was a great weight difference. If I redlined it I would catch a bit of distance.
> 
> The best part about the ring is that it's a toll road. There is a certain embrace of real life unfolding that California law would never tolerate. I would love to fill up a 5 seater and roll it down the ring. On some tracks here you can't even have one passenger.


Like the Ring taxi. That would NEVER be allowed in the US. I wasn't a fan of the Scirocco. All my VW friends keep giving me crap for leaving the family but other than the Golf R (WAY overrated) and the TTRS (WAY overpriced) there wasn't anything I liked in the lineup.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> Like the Ring taxi. That would NEVER be allowed in the US. I wasn't a fan of the Scirocco. All my VW friends keep giving me crap for leaving the family but other than the Golf R (WAY overrated) and the TTRS (WAY overpriced) there wasn't anything I liked in the lineup.


Well, you got the M3, it makes sense you would hate on the much slower and less fun cars. If you had a Polo you would idolize the Golf R. 

German cars are ridiculously expensive imo. You have to really want that extra bit of luxury really bad. The rave for this coming year is going to be the FT86. If it's large enough I'm thinking it may be a really fine second car to give me more seating and hauling space. LA auto show is going to have both, the Subaru BRZ and the Scion FR-S based on the FT86.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Actually I don't have the M3 anymore. $9/gal gas killed that. I might pick up another one when I get back stateside. After the M I tried an A4 Avant but I couldn't stand the auto tranny so I picked up a John Cooper Works Mini Clubman. That thing is SOOOOOO much more fun to drive than the M3 ever was.  

But I come from 17 years of VWs and the new Scirocco and Golf R are not impressive at all. They're too sterile and understeer like crazy. Turbo lag is too much as well. It's like VW took all the great things about the old R32 and GTIs and decided they were bad... It's a shame really.


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

The FRS looks really good and for the price it's not too bad on HP. I would love to have one with a turbo. The TRD team will likely have some nice add ons.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

cvjoint said:


> Well, you got the M3, it makes sense you would hate on the much slower and less fun cars. If you had a Polo you would idolize the Golf R.
> 
> German cars are ridiculously expensive imo. You have to really want that extra bit of luxury really bad. The rave for this coming year is going to be the FT86. If it's large enough I'm thinking it may be a really fine second car to give me more seating and hauling space. LA auto show is going to have both, the Subaru BRZ and the Scion FR-S based on the FT86.


Your tastes can change drastically in only a couple years. I was fine right up until my 30s in a caged, lightened 600rwhp car as a daily. Then one day I didn't want to deal with it anymore. Still love the car but I couldn't drive it every day as I once did from the age of 17 to 31. Same would go for any of the sporty little cars like the EVO and WRX. I couldn't drive one every day. That's one reason my next sporty car will be a CTS-V or M powered.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I love the Caddy inside and performance wise. At some point you will have to step out of it and glance at it. Same would go with approaching it to drive, it's just fugly. It doesn't really inspire me at all. 

The M3 is definitely nicer than the FT86 cars but you pay so much more and at the end of the day it's still 1,000lbs heavier. For a second car M3 is just fine, but if you made me steer a 3,600lb big dash German tank around daily I lose my hunger for driving really quick. For a 2nd car with higher budget I'd also like a Jag, and over than an Aston. 

These FT86s will eventually get the turbo off the STI. I doubt TRD will do their own forced injection. It's just not economical enough as importing Subaru technology. It's pre-built to accommodate a lot of these changes.


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## mrzapco (May 27, 2011)

where are you from, ive never heard of a Subaru BRZ


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

mrzapco said:


> where are you from, ive never heard of a Subaru BRZ


The concept is barely coming out here in Los Angeles in a week, world premiere. The production version will come out in Tokyo in a month at their motor show. It will be produced and available for sale in the summer. Not sure if the whole world will get it at the same time. I imagine Japan will get it first then us in the US.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

*This post is devoted to the pillar pods.* 

The basic idea was to create speaker enclosures that allow a high enough crossover point to lift the soundstage up, as if all the sound is coming from pillar mounted speakers. Generally a crossover point about 1,000hz-2,000hz gives you that based on what we currently know about localization in human hearing. I chose 1,600hz as I thought it might be ideal for lateral localization as well. The speaker I use is also very low distortion over this threshold. 

The second requirement was to not inhibit driving, aka it can take over any windshield viewing area. The passenger airbag still needs to deploy, and the side vents still have to operate to defog the side windows. 

Thirdly I wanted to mount the speaker as much on-axis as possible with the driver seat. This gives me the best chance at getting a good frequency response out of the box so to say and more importantly it gives me great output and dispersion off axis if I move my head and such. 

*Enclosure Type *
A sealed enclosure is a must. I don't believe you can create infinite baffle arrangements in a pillar technically. A ported or aperiodic arrangement would suffer from midrange bleeding and poor group delay. 
First step was to fiberglass the back of the enclosure. Lots of taping and sealing needed to be done so the interior of the car would be unharmed.










After that I build an MDF baffle and attached with hot glue to the back. Then I fiberglassed over it:










If you look closely enough I used underwear as the material of choice. It was actually an oversized woman's pair of panties that had pictures of other panties on it. I though it would be funny to know that if someone sits in my car and marvels at the sound. I chuckle inside everytime I remember that I have oversized women's panties behind those high end speakers and leather wrapped pods. Now my secret can be your secret!










Trimmed and smoothed out a bit:









Then I painted them black and tried them out to make sure they do what they are supposed to. 










Slapped on some wire with Anderson Powerpole quick disonnects for easy troubleshooting if need be:









This was my first choice tweeter, a Vifa ring radiator. You may also recognize it in the Polk SR speaker set. I don't know what people like about ring radiators. I found them to be despicable. They have one of the worse dispersion patterns, very little excursion capability and very small surface area. That means they require really high crossover points yet don't really have any of the qualities of a smaller speaker that naturally crosses this high. IMO get the dome over this, domes are simply superior. 










So next I went to Home Depot and bought some plastic piping to fit a sleeve for my new set of 3/4 dome Vifas. These have excellent dispersion, excellent surface area per footprint and decent excursion capability. This is by far the best deal out there on a top of the line tweeter. 










Then I had the pods wrapped in leather. I had them do a French stitch on the edge for styling. 

Finished pod



















The choice of speakers is the BG Neo 8 planar from 1,600hz to 8,000hz and the Vifa NE19vts from 8,000 up. I picked the planar because at the time I was in love with BG planars. They are truly amazing drivers and the tests prove it. The Vifa did supertweeter duty, it only need be high power and yet small to have good dispersion to 20khz. It does so beautifully with it's tiny 3/4 diaphragm and ridiculously large voice coil that uses the aluminum basket to cool. Amazing design for $25 bucks!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> For a second car M3 is just fine, but if you made me steer a 3,600lb big dash German tank around daily I lose my hunger for driving really quick.


You need to drive one before you say that. My MINI is 2800 pounds and haldles like a go kart and my M3 will spank it in every way imaginable. It doesn't drive or feel like a car that big or heavy. As a daily driver the 15MPG and small gas tank will irritiate the living piss out of you but as far as driving, an E9X M3 will in no way make you lose your hunger for driving.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> You need to drive one before you say that. My MINI is 2800 pounds and haldles like a go kart and my M3 will spank it in every way imaginable. It doesn't drive or feel like a car that big or heavy. As a daily driver the 15MPG and small gas tank will irritiate the living piss out of you but as far as driving, an E9X M3 will in no way make you lose your hunger for driving.


I drove three BMW vehicles so far, Z4, M coupe and a 3 series. The M coupe is neither here or there for me. It's kinda fun and free spirited but then it's also a bit detached. The 3 series moves even farther way. To give you a feel for what strikes my fancy I never felt more alive then when I drove the Lotus Elise. The Honda S2000 is not necessarily more disconnected, but rather underpowered. it has the feel but misses some balls compared to the Elise. When you get to 4 seater cars in the 3,300lb range and up you start trading off a lot of crispiness. Not all of it comes back with more torque and tire patch. 

BMWs most exciting car for me has to be the M Coupe, closer to a pure driver's car than any of the others. Buy why compromise when there are some very attractive chassis out there, both literally and mechanically. The S2000 and Elise have ideal core ingredients like a high xbone rigid chassis, double wishbones all around, open air motoring and the engine between the axles. You can always add power and contact patch.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

*Evaluation of stated goals*


*Frequency Response*










Legend for FR Graph
Red Right Speaker
Blue Left Speaker
Black L+R

Frequency response is +-3db for either left or right. This is an average of 30+ measurements. 

HD @90db









HD @95db









HD @100db









HD @105db









HD @110db









Legend for HD Graphs
Blue THD
Red 2nd
Purple 3rd
Green 4th
Blue 5th

@100 db the majority of distortion is bellow 1% THD. Exceptions include 60hz where distortion rises to 2.2% and bellow 30hz. 

@110db the majority of distortion is still bellow 1% THD. There are a few exceptions again. At 2,000hz the planar speaker seems to start stressing a bit, excursion is not its forte. Between 300hz and 1khz there is about 2% distortion. The S2000 cabin has a major dip at these frequencies and the extra eq. boosting I did to flatten the frequency response stresses the speaker more. The distortion goes up accordingly. The distortion at 60hz has not increased, this peak is likely due to the subwoofer baffle buzzing a bit, it doesn't seem to get worse with increasing output. 

In my best hearing test results I could not pick up distortion under 3%. The commonly used threshold for audibility is generally 1%. 


Total system weight:
*125lbs net *(after removal of spare and toolbox-30lbs, and stock audio-8lbs)


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

New Wheels!


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## Se7en (Mar 28, 2007)

Looking good man!


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## boogeyman (Jul 1, 2008)

I really love those wheels.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> I drove three BMW vehicles so far, Z4, M coupe and a 3 series. The M coupe is neither here or there for me. It's kinda fun and free spirited but then it's also a bit detached. The 3 series moves even farther way. To give you a feel for what strikes my fancy I never felt more alive then when I drove the Lotus Elise. The Honda S2000 is not necessarily more disconnected, but rather underpowered. it has the feel but misses some balls compared to the Elise. When you get to 4 seater cars in the 3,300lb range and up you start trading off a lot of crispiness. Not all of it comes back with more torque and tire patch.
> 
> BMWs most exciting car for me has to be the M Coupe, closer to a pure driver's car than any of the others. Buy why compromise when there are some very attractive chassis out there, both literally and mechanically. The S2000 and Elise have ideal core ingredients like a high xbone rigid chassis, double wishbones all around, open air motoring and the engine between the axles. You can always add power and contact patch.



Oh I agree 100%. My JCW Clubman is MILES more fun to drive than my M3. I was just saying the M3 doesn't drive like a car that's as big as it is. 

If I didn't need a backseat I might have an Elise right now. Hell, I almost bought one anyway. I LOVE small, darty cars.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> Oh I agree 100%. My JCW Clubman is MILES more fun to drive than my M3. I was just saying the M3 doesn't drive like a car that's as big as it is.
> 
> If I didn't need a backseat I might have an Elise right now. Hell, I almost bought one anyway. I LOVE small, darty cars.


Sure does. Partly it's because BMW moves their engines as far behind the front axle as possible. Partly it's because there is very little overhang. The front wheels are practically at the very edge of the front bumper. 

I'm really loving these Enkei wheels. The best part about them is that they come with a very concave wheel face for a fairly tame offset (+38 on the back). The S2000's in-wheel double wishbone design requires high positive offsets, stock is +65 on the back. That pretty much leaves mostly straight spoke profiles for compatibility. There are better wheels out there from a structural point of view ie. Volk monoblocks but those look really tame for offsets over 22+.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

quality_sound said:


> Oh I agree 100%. My JCW Clubman is MILES more fun to drive than my M3. I was just saying the M3 doesn't drive like a car that's as big as it is.
> 
> If I didn't need a backseat I might have an Elise right now. Hell, I almost bought one anyway. I LOVE small, darty cars.


I'm actually saving for the newer Elise model (2014) or Elan (if I have the cash) 

Need a 2 door car project for midbass in the rear-quarter :evil:

Kelvin


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

subwoofery said:


> I'm actually saving for the newer Elise model (2014) or Elan (if I have the cash)
> 
> Need a 2 door car project for midbass in the rear-quarter :evil:
> 
> Kelvin


2011 Lotus Elise Scores 46.6 MPG, Cleanest Sports Car In Class

Fisker this: 46.6 mpg.Update: Fisker Karma Electric Car Gets Worse Mileage Than an SUV - Forbes Buy it now to save gas money today and of course, to have fun!

The 2014 one is 500 lbs heavier and has some sort of hybrid system. No Lotus should have that crap. Complicated cars fall apart on the track.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

cvjoint said:


> 2011 Lotus Elise Scores 46.6 MPG, Cleanest Sports Car In Class
> 
> Fisker this: 46.6 mpg.Update: Fisker Karma Electric Car Gets Worse Mileage Than an SUV - Forbes Buy it now to save gas money today and of course, to have fun!
> 
> *The 2014 one is 500 lbs heavier and has some sort of hybrid system. No Lotus should have that crap. Complicated cars fall apart on the track.*


True but I don't like the look of today's offering. That's just me though  

Kelvin


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## SSSnake (Mar 8, 2007)

> I love the Caddy inside and performance wise. At some point you will have to step out of it and glance at it. Same would go with approaching it to drive, it's just fugly. It doesn't really inspire me at all.


Now that's just cold. I love the look of the 04-07 Caddy's exterior. Very understated. That's the main reason I bought one. But I'm 43. The newer Vs, I don't like the body. I like the standard CTS exterior more.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

SSSnake said:


> Now that's just cold. I love the look of the 04-07 Caddy's exterior. Very understated. That's the main reason I bought one. But I'm 43. The newer Vs, I don't like the body. I like the standard CTS exterior more.


Sorry Charles, it's not really ugly but rather just bland. Ok, beauty is in the eye of the beholder anyway.


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## greywarden (Jan 6, 2011)

Those tweeters were tested by Zaph in his blog, excellent off-axis performance. Is that the OmniMic you're using to do HD sweeps?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

greywarden said:


> Those tweeters were tested by Zaph in his blog, excellent off-axis performance. Is that the OmniMic you're using to do HD sweeps?


They have superb off-axis response but that is simply due to the size of the dome. Any 3/4 dome will have similar dispersion. If you look at the difference between on-axis and a certain degree off axis all 3/4 domes will be roughly of the same db difference.

Dayton Omnimic is the measuring toll. Parts Express had it on sale for $250 lately. Regular price is $300 but I got mine a long time ago and gotten a lot of use out of it.


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## Tarheels1 (Jan 20, 2011)

Although I did not go to the extent that You have on your S2000, I had a local in Grenville NC install a system. I can honestly say it did not sound much better than what I had stock. YUCK!


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Tarheels1 said:


> Although I did not go to the extent that You have on your S2000, I had a local in Grenville NC install a system. I can honestly say it did not sound much better than what I had stock. YUCK!


Could be reflecting the quality of the job!  DIY ftw!


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

my simple setup came out sounding really damn good. replaced door speakers, 10" in pass footwell and an RF 3sixty.2 not quite competition worthy, but almost. and did not cost that much either in parts or labor (only did some of the install myself). yeah, check your setup, the S NEEDS a good sound system and it's EASY to get it rocking pretty well. what did you do that leaves you less than satisfied Tarheels1?


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## Tarheels1 (Jan 20, 2011)

I added a JL amps, sub in in the spare tire well. ( pioneer junk) I added 6 1/2 Pioneer Kevlars in the doors. I had the seat speakers disconnected. I couldn't hardly hear the sound system. When the top was down, I could Virtually hear nothing! I ditched the sound system and went back stock. Some of the problem is I didn't spend that much on it and the other was the shop. I can honestly say it sounded awful and I was very disappointed.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Tarheels1 said:


> I added a JL amps, sub in in the spare tire well. ( pioneer junk) I added 6 1/2 Pioneer Kevlars in the doors. I had the seat speakers disconnected. I couldn't hardly hear the sound system. When the top was down, I could Virtually hear nothing! I ditched the sound system and went back stock. Some of the problem is I didn't spend that much on it and the other was the shop. I can honestly say it sounded awful and I was very disappointed.


IMO for a cheap sound system, keep the stock tweeters and woofers. Spend all the money on the sub and a 5 channel amp. With the right 5 channel amp you can get active crossovers and independent gain control. The head can be cheap to, all you need is a HP filter built in. Run:

sub up to 100hz
mid in door 100hz to 3,000hz
and tweeters 3,000hz up

$500 can easily cover all of it. 

Top down will still be bad at highway speeds but can be really good at low speeds.


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## Tarheels1 (Jan 20, 2011)

Thanks man...I wish I had of known all that a few years ago. I sold the car with just 866 miles on the clock. I have fibromalgia and had trouble getting out of the car. The car was a screamer, but I had to let it go. I bought a Vette convertible after that. It is easier to get in and out of it. I have a write-up about it on this forum. The sound is better than the stock BOSE. I have ARC Mini amps and ID speakers w/stealth boxes in the rear cubbie also with IDs. I plan to pur a 10' in the trunk soon.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Tarheels1 said:


> Thanks man...I wish I had of known all that a few years ago. I sold the car with just 866 miles on the clock. I have fibromalgia and had trouble getting out of the car. The car was a screamer, but I had to let it go. I bought a Vette convertible after that. It is easier to get in and out of it. I have a write-up about it on this forum. The sound is better than the stock BOSE. I have ARC Mini amps and ID speakers w/stealth boxes in the rear cubbie also with IDs. I plan to pur a 10' in the trunk soon.


I guess the S is kinda hard to get in and out of. Haven't thought about it before. With the seat all the way back it is a bit of a reach. I tend to compare it to the Lotus Elise and that one is a ***** and 1/2 to get out of. There are some cross bars right at the bottom in the way. One day I hope to be able to drop the Chevy big block in the S and supercharge it. Best of both worlds for me.


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## Tarheels1 (Jan 20, 2011)

That would be a killer car. Try a LS2, LS3 or LS7, they are all aluminum. Traction would be the next issue!


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Tarheels1 said:


> That would be a killer car. Try a LS2, LS3 or LS7, they are all aluminum. Traction would be the next issue!


LS7 with the Edlebrock charger. Street legal, stock hood, 660hp. 

The S can fit 305 tires with the right wheel offset and a fender roll. 345 should be doable with fender extensions. No widebody needed. As for driveterrain there is a drag axle + Nissan 300zx differential combo for the S that can take loads of power. If one were to invest in advanced materials (Li battery, carbon fiber body parts, titanium piping) this can can end up with a power to weight ratio comparable to the Saleen S7 TT. Except the S has about half the footprint and it's a total sleeper. Sometime in the future.


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## whoever (Nov 21, 2008)

Or you could just purchase a Brunton Stalker Stalker V8 Specs at Brunton Auto - 90 DEG V8, Aluminum, LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LS7, LSX, L33 Specs I got to ride along as a passanger around Sebring Raceway, unbelievable car. We were passing most everything on the track, 911, vettes, GtR and keeping up with the Porsche GT3 Cup Car. Street legal, cheap (relatively) to buy and fix also.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

whoever said:


> Or you could just purchase a Brunton Stalker Stalker V8 Specs at Brunton Auto - 90 DEG V8, Aluminum, LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LS7, LSX, L33 Specs I got to ride along as a passanger around Sebring Raceway, unbelievable car. We were passing most everything on the track, 911, vettes, GtR and keeping up with the Porsche GT3 Cup Car. Street legal, cheap (relatively) to buy and fix also.


Yeah, but that's an open wheel kit car. It's street legal alright but would you drive it every day? The Ultima GTR is of course the poster child for LS kit cars. They all have brutish performance but arguably unlivable on the street and somewhat ugly. I wouldn't mind renting one for a track day, but I wouldn't take it home.


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## whoever (Nov 21, 2008)

CVJoint if you have an opportunity to ride in one, or better yet drive it, it really is an extrodinary vehicle. Anyway on with the show, really enjoying seeing what your doing with the car and the choices your making. You provide a lot of insight, thank you.


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## Tarheels1 (Jan 20, 2011)

Keep me informed on your project...LSX etc


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

*II. Revisions*

Naturally it would have been too nice to stick with what I have. Since I drew up the plans for the S2k new speakers came out, and I've learned a thing or two more. These revisions are improvements of the original plan. 

New subwoofers: Vifa NE 315W-04 12"

Compared to the outgoing AE IB12:
*6lb* vs. 15lb
*11.9mm* xmax vs. 10.8mm xmax (Klippel verified values -VC mag July 2010 and DIYMA, my driver as tested by Matt Bogart)
*Sexy* vs. rugged

The big difference is the weight, in triples the new Vifas weigh only 18lbs together whereas the AEs are at 45lbs. Make no mistake, the AEs are some of the beefiest subs at their weight but the Vifa's clever use of neo motors and aluminum spokes in a classy industrial design beats it easily. 

Performance wise both subwoofers cover the same market. High quality subwoofer that can be crossed really high. I would have no problem crossing either up to 1khz in a home audio design. The Vifa has a minor edge 20hz-40hz with better venting, low end sensitivity and large displacement suspension. The AE shines over that with a beefier coil, lower and flatter inductance, and more motor strength. Take your pick, both are fantastic.
*
Overall I saw this as an opportunity to save 27lb, get a sexier looking sub, and keep the performance envelope just as high.*

Cost? $0. The Vifa's were on clearance on PE for $119 shipped. Sold the AEs and used some PE coupons for more savings = [winner]. 

Current price is $326 a pop:
Vifa NE315W, 12" Woofer, 4 ohm: Madisound Speaker Store

Vifa has a heatsinked version in the pipeline too. It makes use of aluminum fins to cool off the motor just like a car transmission, oil pan and differential have aluminum fins for cooling. Power handling goes up but personally I haven't had a problem heatsoak wise. The aluminum spokes never heat up either which is a good sign since they help cooling as well.


First off the pictures:
































































*Build quality impressions* based on the glove work:

The basket is built around the neo motor. I'm guessing by design the magnet can't shift due to the way the aluminum spokes grab onto it. Faital keeps mentioning this about their speakers so I do too haha. The spokes are rounded off inside and outside, incredibly well vented is the way to describe them. The benefit of the small neo motor is actually bellow the spider where again it's incredibly well vented. The lip has no felt treatment but it has a very subtle edge pronunciation. Perhaps it digs into whatever surface it's mounted on to make an even more airtight seal. The screw holes are countersunk, in a driver with this much high frequency extension I bet it helps. Whoever designed this basket really loved his job, you can see they even took the time to countersink the logo into the basket. 

The voice coil former is titanium and it has loads of thermal relief vents. Titanium is used presumably to prevent the coil from unwinding under extreme temperatures. It happens to have very good magnetic properties. In case the former vents don't due the job of unloading the dustcap cavity the magnet has a pole vent to help it out. 

The spider is moderately sized, fairly see through, and fairly stiff. The voice coil leads seem to be soaked and stitched from the back of the spider. They terminate into a screw type block with allen type screws, pure sex. 

The cone is some sort of paper pulp. Very smooth on the outside but very rough on the inside. The surround is a bit beefier than it looks in the pics. I can't tell whether the protective rubber right around it is the same piece. At the basket spoke location the surround extends out. Interestingly enough the back of the cone terminates abruptly in these places and the surround takes over. Not sure what this pentacone technology is supposed to do, maybe reduce standing waves. The small dustcap is unusual but makes for very radical concavity. From the side these cones look really really good just like a concave car wheel looks way sexier than than a flat surface one. 3d vs. 2d.

Next I'll put everything at my disposal in service to do a full on comparison between the outgoing AE IB12 and the new Vifas. For now the weight difference is astounding. The Vifas are hella curvaceous by comparison too. Just how I walk past my car somedays and just drool at the body lines I will drool at these Vifas in ways I've never drooled at speakers.

Pics of the Vifas on the same baffle as the AEs were. I added the home brew grilles this time. I cut the carbon fiber strips and drilled them. The screws hold both the grilles and the subs. It's an elegant, cheap, light and does the job kinda method, imo.


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## aV8ter (Sep 4, 2009)

How do they sound?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

They sound great. There is a bit more bottom end than the AE which is nice, although this could probably be achieved with a little EQ. as well. There is no motor noise that I can pick up. When level matched it blends in nicely, and when it's boosted it can move copious amounts of air. 

I think it's a natural choice for IB given that it's not weighted down by a heavy coil or a gaudy restrictive basket.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

/End Thread


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

cvjoint said:


> /End Thread


nooooo ... more more more !!!


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## aV8ter (Sep 4, 2009)

Selling the car?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Not selling, unless I bend the chassis again like the last one. Just...not here.


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Did you like Vifas more than AEs at the end of the day?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Mless5 said:


> Did you like Vifas more than AEs at the end of the day?


Tough choice. Depends on the application.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

*Completed a-pillar pods*
*Modifying the existing pods that I've used extensively to test endless combinations and get to the final choice. 









I am replacing the Airborne AMT tweeters with the smallest Aurum Cantus version. The workmanship on the AC is noticeably better, tolerances, materials, etc. As an added bonus it has a protective screen that keeps dirt out and blends the speaker better with the car's black interior. Not that yellow was too off on this car haha. I would have had to get a smaller AMT tweeter anyway, might as well go higher end.

The BG Neo 8 is back, but this time it is the S version. Higher excursion, much more a midrange-like than the old tweeter-like version. Both drivers will be on axis. 

Fabrication details:
all fiberglass pod
and
.5" MDF front baffle
secured with
Devcon 1 minute cure epoxy between the wood and fiberglass
rounded off with
body filler 
*Leather wrapped and double stiched

























*Self adhering closed cell foam behind the pods + threaded nuts. The foam is there to prevent any unwanted twist, noise, or resonance between the parts. The threaded bolts go into existing pillar mounting holes so the chassis metal was left untouched. Pillars can be take off or tightened fairly easily, one bolt behind each speaker. 
















*Wiring ran through, one end has modular Anderson power poles and connects to the amplifier wiring, the other quick disconnects for the speakers. Hot glue poured over to ensure air tight seal.








*Air motion transformers mounted up top after pillars are bolted to the a-pillar using machine screws. Aluminum damping sheets added to reduce resonance in the midrange.
















*Open cell foam added behind the planar midrange. 1" thickness should absorb the rear wave entirely above 1khz, and a good amount under 1khz. ~1.75" open space left between midrange and foam, 2.75" total depth excedes the minimum recommended by the manufacturer. AMT tweeters come with an OEM rear wave absorption felt piece. 








*Finished pods

















The fiberglass mold accounted for the A/C vents behind the panels. Those are double sticky taped on the pillar behind the speaker and work as intended. Driver pod does not extend past the A/C vent in the dash and therefore maintains enough spacing between pod and steering wheel to operate vehicle. Passenger pod is shallow enough to clear the air bag lid if needed during an accident. Both pods are built to take 0 glass viewing area from the driver's seat ensuring visibility. All connections are quick disconnects and all bolts are machine threaded so that they are easy to service. Replacement speakers are also readily available. 

This completes the fabrication portion of the a-pillars. Software based testing and optimization to follow.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

*Kickpanel build Part I of II* 

I had two choices for bass producing techonology, the Peerless 10" MAC XLS, which reverses the motor and the Tympany LAT250 which arranges smaller cones in a mechanical push-pull connected by carbon fiber rods. Needless to say the LAT250s take up more room to produce the same amount of output and need a lot more airspace than I can provide them. In return they minimize vibration. So I went with the Peerless 10" MAC XLS. I also like the simplicity of installing a single 10" speaker instead of 40 2.5" cones when I'm short on time. Aka I didn't really have time, room, or box space to make them work on this car, so I'm saving the LATs for the next car. They are a piece of speaker design history!

The Peerless 10" XLS MAC, essentially a reverse motor 10" woofer perfectly executed:








Front:








Back:









The Peerless shallow mount 10" is my favorite of all shallow 10" subs and here is why. Klippel tests show 8+mm of true linear excursion when using suspension, inductance, and motor limits. The curves are perfectly symmetrical around the rest position, aka perfectly optimized. QTS is very low and FS is very low so this driver is supremely sensitive at low frequencies where I need it to work. That means in small boxes it will have very extended response, it will need very little power, and it will have a very low resonance. The motor itself is a masterpiece, low inductance, beefy coil, and it's clad entirely in aluminum to heatsink it for high power applications. Unlike other 10" shallow designs this one is resonance free all the way to 700hz which makes it a dual purpose woofer and subwoofer, not just an air pump. 

Needless to say I love how Peerless creates revolutionary technology for the masses. It may lose 1db of output to something like an Alpine Type R but this is fine art compared to the Alpine, so much so that I see no reason not to use it as a low midrange. It's also the shallowest design by far on the market and I'll show why. 


Next up, fiberglassing the bottom of the enclosure. I chose to fiberglass it on the car to use every nook and cranny available in the S2000 to maximize box size:










As you can see, the driver's side looks helpless. The kick panel holds the dead pedal and computer wiring. Even with all those removed not much can be achieved. So I looked up and noticed a huge air vent (removed in the picture). I took it out, rerouted my alarm wires and my audio wires and made just enough room to flush mount the 10" there. The air vent still works, the pipe opens in the upper left corner now instead of over the legs. 

The passenger side is even worse:









The a/c compressor is huge and already takes up loads of leg room. For the purpose of symmetry I decided to mount it downfiring just like the driver woofer, despite this one taking up some passenger legroom. In effect I can stay in that seat and extend my legs all the way out under the speaker but it is a bit intrusive. I should have fiberglassed it as a standard kickpanel instead, oh well, too late now. 

Car getting prepped:

















That pointy part of the a/c compressor is more than a pain.

Hoping to retain OEM looking kick panels I fiberglassed the OEM plastic kickpanel to reproduce it out of fiberglass.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

*Kickpanel build Part II of II*

I intended to make a kickpanel that is really a big speaker box using the airspace in the kickpanel and under the dash. In reality, there was no air space in the kickpanels without losing the deadpedal. I decided to keep the S2000 as useful as without the audio so the kickpanel portion is really only a face, not an enclosure. It hides the wires and bolts itself to the car's frame. That way the speaker fires from under the dash but does not vibrate the dashboard. It only touches the car in the kick area. This way I got all the vibration free operation I could get, did not intrude on any driver leg room, but have to do with a smaller speaker box. 

I added one layer of fiberglass in the car under the dash to get the shape and 6 layers+ on the kick parts. Pulled them off the molds and layed them in the sun to cure. The entire kick build process took me 20 labor hours over 2 days so it was fast and the sun helped a lot. 110 degree weather!










Next up I added 5 more layers on the underdash piece. Let it cure, then trimmed it. As it was drying I noticed it was curling and the angle between kick and dashboard was getting lower. I added some weights on the back piece to force it back as it was drying. 










This is the step when the two fiberglass pieces come together with a wood baffle and things start making sense. I used wooden dowels and hot glue to get the three parts to come together as tight as possible. The speaker has 1/4" extra depth at most. Even the speaker basket is less than 1/4" away from the fiberglass bits in places. On the passenger side, the protrusion from the A/C compressor fits in between the spokes of the speaker basket. Can't do that with any other 10" woofer! 










Passenger kick in the forefront. You can see the protrusion on the lower left. The speaker fits around it. 










Fitting the enclosure in the car was very difficult. There are many angles that can be fiberglassed, but it doesn't mean that you can remove the mold. After a lot of trimming this is what could fit back in the car as one unit:



















Added the remaining fiberglass to seal the pods. The wooden baffle was soaked in resin and painted to add waterproofness over time. 

















These are final pics before I had them wrapped in leather. Trimmed and surfaced, some body filler was added later to smoothen the shape but didn't have time to shoot a pic, they were due at the upholstery shop:


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

*Finished Product Kicks/dash pods*

Leather wrapping passenger side:








Driver's side:









Kicks were bolted to the chassis using machine screws again. Threaded nuts went into the original holes made for plastic kicks. 
Driver's side, can't normally see it: 








Both bolts can be seen in this picture. Deadpedal use unaffected. Hood release latch unaffected, and a bulge is made into the kick to prevent accidental opening like on the stock one. 
























Passenger side. I don't really like the way it takes up space or the way it looks there but it works and doesn't bother me. 

















Maybe in the future I will make another passenger kick mounted in a more traditional fashion aimed at the center tunnel. I think that would be nicer to look at and take up less room. No easy way to get a 10" on the passenger side.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Mless5 said:


> Did you like Vifas more than AEs at the end of the day?





cvjoint said:


> Tough choice. Depends on the application.




It took you 14 months to respond. Wake up, where have you been ?oke:


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

trojan fan said:


> It took you 14 months to respond. Wake up, where have you been ?oke:


Major life upgrades + DIYMA related drama. 

Account upgraded, pics should be up again.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

Awesome build. I really like the use of the OEM fasteners, instead of messing up stock functionality and drilling into bare metal everywhere. It shows you put a lot of thought into the design, not just into the execution. Great stuff.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

For a while I thought about cutting some large metal bits out of the kick panels to fit speakers. There is a build online where a guy cut most of the kick metal and some huge pieces from under the seats. Then I changed my mind, didn't really like the idea of the car bending like a pretzel in turns so I continued with something that can be returned to OEM spec. with little work. 

The threaded nut rivets are a huge help.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Sweet midbass setup - wanted to do the same but don't have time right now (busy @ work)

How's the response? 

Kelvin


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Of the midbass drivers? Seems to drop heavily after about 350hz. It would be tough to get them to cover low midrange for many reasons. I'll have to do some testing on each, I just really don't know were since this a huge packed city. No more suburbia amenities. 

I'll tell you one thing though, I'm the happiest guy in traffic guaranteed! I just roll my windows up and immerse.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

cvjoint said:


> Of the midbass drivers? Seems to drop heavily after about 350hz. It would be tough to get them to cover low midrange for many reasons. I'll have to do some testing on each, I just really don't know were since this a huge packed city. No more suburbia amenities.
> 
> I'll tell you one thing though, I'm the happiest guy in traffic guaranteed! I just roll my windows up and immerse.


Yup, midbasses only (L, then R, the L+R) from the driver's seat  

Kelvin


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I had been thinking about similar locations for big midbasses since seeing pictures of some of the Japanese competition cars.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

*Subwoofer build*

From earlier, this is the fiberglass cage I built to separate the trunk and inside airspaces. It provides a simple solution to mounting a 37" by 13" subwoofer baffle. The 37" width is dictated by the space between the trunk support arms. 










After trying out countless 12"s and 15"s, I have come to the conclusion that the none perform even close to the Tympani LAT. So I went back to them. Two LAT700s house twelve 7" subs in a vibration canceling push-pull orientation. As mentioned eariler, the trouble with two LAT700s is that the width is 38.5" so it doesn't clear my trunk supports. 
This is an earlier picture where I removed the center caps and used silicone adhesive to seal the baffle in the middle in the absence of endcaps:











As a permanent solution I had the two endcaps soldered together. This was a tough job because the endcaps are aluminum. Here is what they look like now, width is 36.5" which just clears my trunk support arms:












Made a new baffle and wrapped it in carpet:










Wired all motors, 4 in all, in parallel for a final 1 ohm load. 12 gauge wiring, fan over thread connectors, and Anderson powerpoles quick disconnects to remove the baffle easily for track days:










In car pics:


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Nice work! What range do the LATs play?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

bbfoto said:


> Nice work! What range do the LATs play?


I'm using them 20hz 30db/oct to 63hz 24db/oct. 

The actual useful range is up to 700hz. There is a Helmotz resonance there due to the cavity size through which they push air. Either way, that gargantuan surround would have a resonance around 700hz, see for example the SLS 6.5 distortion plots. I'd say 26hz-700hz limited by the FS on the low end and both the chamber and surround at the top. 

I've used them up to 200hz for a long time. They work unusually well with high crossover points. So much so that even with 10" midbasses up front the improvement isn't too great. Resonance and vibration are usually the reason we need up front midbass. People will say they can pick up location cues with the sub crossed at 200hz but I don't think that's a huge issue IF resonance and vibration/rattles are dealt with. 

These are fantastic choice if you want to cross high. You hardly know they are back there.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Awesome. Thanks for the detailed insight. Love how they look in your install as well. Nice to see something different!


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Car audio car doing race car things. See if you can spot the huge pillars!




























After two sessions I concluded that all audio build is very sturdy, everything kept its bolts down, from battery to kickpanels above my feet. But, I made it removable for a reason: to go faster, well...fast! So it all came out.


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