# MECA Az SQ Competition



## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

Working on ideas for a stricktly SQ show with MECA. While many associate competitions with hard core SPL, there is still that small group that handle sound quality. 
So far for the past 6 months we have had consistant 10 to 15 people turn outs for SQ alone, and we would love to see that number jump.

An example of out last show in Tucson included a small clinic on sound quality, proper installation and working with a couple audio shops on products and services. 

We are looking for tips and advice on what we can do to get more DIYMA memebers to come out and participate. We will be conducting SQ Judge training as well for those want to learn how to judge. 

We are working on SQ only shows and looking for places to gather. So tips, ideas and comments are welcome. Coming to these shows provides a wealth of knowledge, and you never know who could be the surprise competitor, like at our last show.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Great Job dude. 10-15 is above the average turn out for SQ in any org for a "local" show.
We started primarily doing SQ only events and had similar numbers. Majority of our shows consistently had more SQ than SPL competitors.

One way you can get a few additional people is add another format like IASCA or even USACi. There are many people who are very loyal to certain orgs but really have no shows to attend. Give them a place to play and feel welcome and they may come out

also, it provides an added value to the show. One stop shopping for people who want to qualify for Finals and get more input on their systems.


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## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

We have run the idea of double organization shows, but still need to work on the logistics effort.
There are two SQ judges in Az, myself and another gentleman and its starting to get a little hard with the two of us or especially when he cant do it, as I judge all shows. 

But the main thing is getting people to come out to shows. I understand SQ is not everyones forte, and we have some people that ruin it for some by thinking SQ is a "fine mans audio" if you get what im saying.

We have had alot of people over the 3 years that MECA has been in Az do both SQ and SPL successfully, and those who jumped ship entirely. Its hard to get the hard core SQ fanatics out and support local businesses and organizations. 

They dont need to compete, but atleast come out show support and you never know learn something you may have never before.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Cabinatan1 said:


> We have run the idea of double organization shows, but still need to work on the logistics effort.
> There are two SQ judges in Az, myself and another gentleman and its starting to get a little hard with the two of us or especially when he cant do it, as I judge all shows.
> 
> But the main thing is getting people to come out to shows. I understand SQ is not everyones forte, and we have some people that ruin it for some by thinking SQ is a "fine mans audio" if you get what im saying.
> ...



do it in conjunction with a GTG (get together) or host a AZ GTG which is also a MECA or IASCA event
have on site food vendor or someone with a big grill making tritip, burgers and such


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## secretsquirl (Dec 3, 2012)

It's very easy to do the two orgs. It's not any harder than doing one just different paper work You guys got all the paper work in very fast from the show I was at after CES so I don't see u guys having a Problem. More judges seems to be everyone's weakness, well trained judges make or break long term numbers at the shows IMO.


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## secretsquirl (Dec 3, 2012)

Mic they had the show at a bomb ass place for food and it was a car shop. Nice place Maybe one of the nicest I've ever been to for a event. Beautiful waitresses and great food!!!


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## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

I wish we had more "hotrods" type restaurants in Phoenix


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

Great thread. 
I would love to see the guys on this forum show up to an event. I would for them to put their car in the judges lane. 

We offer cliniques at the shows. Very informative. We could even use the time to discuss other SQL related topics. Maybe something on "staging" or "placement" 
These are items that the typical "processor" guy doesn't know too much about. 
Maybe we could bring in a recording engineer to talk about mastering.


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## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

My big beef is I don't understand why people in this site are so unsupportive of the competition arena.

A lot of these guys spend good money in equipment, intricate installs, countless hours on speaker placement and time alignment, and praise their systems but bad mouth competition, and don't even show up.

I wouldn't be on here pitching ideas for SQ if I didn't want sound focused individuals to attend. 
Hell I'm happy if they even just show up to see what other "competitors" have and make judgment then. 

If you want industry exports, ill get you industry exports. But it seems to me no one here knows what they want and don't know what to do with what they have.

I know I am not the best competitor out there and I know I have a lot of work ahead of me but I know how to support an industry where people gain interest by seeing what goes on and not just a bunch of groupie talks.

If Im an ass, then I'm an ass but I know I do something most don't.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

Cabinatan1 said:


> My big beef is I don't understand why people in this site are so unsupportive of the competition arena.
> 
> A lot of these guys spend good money in equipment, intricate installs, countless hours on speaker placement and time alignment, and praise their systems but bad mouth competition, and don't even show up.
> 
> ...


I'd say some of it is lack of knowledge of the competition scene, but I'd venture that most people think of this as a fun hobby and the competing and worrying about how your system grades out takes some of the "fun" out of it. Other people just don't care about competing, they just want to get some friendly feedback and ideas, or to BS.

Although I met you at the last MECA event and thought you were a pretty nice guy and absolutely could be someone who contributes to the SQ scene here... I do want to say that you and Smogden are kinda noobs and coming in to push your ideas for events/competitions may not come across well to some on this forum. Come to the next GTG, get to know people, talk about future events there. You'll get people on-board with your ideas eventually.


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

Basically we are reaching out to you guys. We are valuing your opinions and thoughts. When I comes to SQL there IS an industry standard. Personally I have much to learn. I will always be a student of the industry. I have need doing car audio for 12 years. And I have many more years to go. 

We have been trying to get the communities to come together. I feel it will take some give on both sides. I think that is fair. Because right now there is a huge disconnect amongst people in the SQL community. 

Our vision is to combine the two communities and offer the best of both worlds. We want to have SQL only events that feature education, guest speakers, cook outs, peer to peer feedback and the competition portion as well. Also we want to have instal people there teaching classes- by no means giving their secrets away, but talking good installs, safety, and bad installs. A big focus on safety of course.


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## dcabinatan (Nov 26, 2009)

ISTundra said:


> I'd say some of it is lack of knowledge of the competition scene, but I'd venture that most people think of this as a fun hobby and the competing and worrying about how your system grades out takes some of the "fun" out of it. Other people just don't care about competing, they just want to get some friendly feedback and ideas, or to BS.
> 
> Although I met you at the last MECA event and thought you were a pretty nice guy and absolutely could be someone who contributes to the SQ scene here... I do want to say that you and Smogden are kinda noobs and coming in to push your ideas for events/competitions may not come across well to some on this forum. Come to the next GTG, get to know people, talk about future events there. You'll get people on-board with your ideas eventually.


I agree that there is a lack of knowledge nowadays, but having been in this industry since 1985, there's nothing to provide insight anymore like in the good old days. The days are gone of Car Stereo Review or Car Audio & Electronics magazines that showcased car audio product, build tips as well as highlighting all of the shows going on all over the world. These magazines showed off the work of great installers and shops and competitors, which prompted people to flock to them for work on their own vehicles. Do you think anyone outside of the small cliques know any of the "Installer of the Year" winners? Imagine if any of the "Installer of the Year" winners showed up at sound offs and showed why they won said award!! It doesn't help, though, that there are far too many "shops" that somehow were able to get a business license and buy everything from the local "distributor" who let's everyone in his warehouse, business license or not. These are the shops that have NO experience, background or knowledge in 12volt or car audio give car audio a black eye. You can't even go to them for advice. God knows how many of them I go into acting like a regular customer, and after asking a few questions, I walk out convinced that some customer will be coming to me to re-do what they did. When an installer gives me the blank stare about "what ohms/impedance are these subs", or that it doesn't matter what the enclosure volume is for any subs, they don't belong in this business. 
I agree, there are lots of people with phenominal sound systems that would give lots of the local competitors a run for their money, and they choose not to compete. I was one of them until I decided I wanted a new truck. But you know a competitor doesn't want to know that there are non-competitors who could mop up the floor with them.
Car audio as a hobby is great. Car audio competition is like sports, IT'S COMPETITION!! If you're a hobbyist, you should be able to keep it at that. Competitiors are going to keep evolving their systems to reach for those awards. Both ARE and CAN be fun, it's up to the individual. If someone wants "feedback", than maybe they should seek out all of these "Installer of the Year" winners. Apparantly there's a reason why they won that award. 
I'm curious, how do you feel my son is a NOOB? His age? You're a veteran/expert? Why, your age? He's been involved with car audio since he was about 5, because of my involvment with it all, which goes back to the mid 80's. Some of the industry experts he knows is from being exposed to them from my meetings with them or from my having worked for three of biggest car audio manufacturers that were located in Tempe, Az.. Alot of what he's learned has either been from me or people of industry, not from the local hacks. I don't know you,and I don't mean to disrespect you, but I think it's disrespectful to call someone a NOOB when you don't even know what they're about, especially after one meeting. 
And I'm sorry, but Buzzman's "GTGs" NEED to have some type of structure of what the hell is going on. I've been to the last two and kept wondering what the hell was supposed to be going on. The only people I knew was Bob Morrow and Casey Thorsen, and that's because I order product through them. No attempt was made to announce who was present, who's vehicle was open for demonstrations, if anyone needed help with their systems. People keep saying they don't compete but would still like to know how their system performs, so why not have a RTA there? It's hard to rub elbows with anyone or know who's brain to pick when the "experts" aren't introduced.


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## ISTundra (Jan 3, 2009)

dcabinatan said:


> I'm curious, how do you feel my son is a NOOB? His age? You're a veteran/expert? Why, your age? He's been involved with car audio since he was about 5, because of my involvment with it all, which goes back to the mid 80's. Some of the industry experts he knows is from being exposed to them from my meetings with them or from my having worked for three of biggest car audio manufacturers that were located in Tempe, Az.. Alot of what he's learned has either been from me or people of industry, not from the local hacks. I don't know you,and I don't mean to disrespect you, but I think it's disrespectful to call someone a NOOB when you don't even know what they're about, especially after one meeting.
> And I'm sorry, but Buzzman's "GTGs" NEED to have some type of structure of what the hell is going on. I've been to the last two and kept wondering what the hell was supposed to be going on. The only people I knew was Bob Morrow and Casey Thorsen, and that's because I order product through them. No attempt was made to announce who was present, who's vehicle was open for demonstrations, if anyone needed help with their systems. People keep saying they don't compete but would still like to know how their system performs, so why not have a RTA there? It's hard to rub elbows with anyone or know who's brain to pick when the "experts" aren't introduced.


Sorry, I meant to say in my earlier post that your son is a noob on this forum, not a noob to car audio or SQ systems. I'm sure your son is younger than me yet knows a lot more than I do, so no disrespect was meant by that comment. I was merely referring to his comments regarding the people in this forum not being supportive of the car audio scene and his ideas for organized events. Most forum members don't know your son so telling us our events are a waste of time and we should be doing more may not be well-received by the forum regulars, a lot of whom do know each other to some degree and enjoy the events they way they have been held recently.

All your points about the forum GTG's are valid, and if you review the current GTG thread you'll see that efforts are being made to have more structure there. It's a building process, I encourage you to attend more and keep promoting your ideas. Some may take, some may not, but telling us our meetings are a waste of time because there's not a comp or some structure in place isn't the right way to start out.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

I am curious at actual competition events do spectators get to go around and listen to the comp vehicles? 

Some structure to our events could be benificial but I am curious how we would set up a structured listening session of everyone's cars? In our last GTG thread many of us mentioned that we were willing to demo our cars as well as some even stated what they are running. I know I also asked for suggestions for tuning and further building of my system. I still need help with the tuning and such. One thing that comes to my mind with the structure added to these events however is time. You 3 mention learning sessions on various topics but that adds to the total time of the event. As it is I barely got to have I think 6 listening sessions between demoing my car and listening to other cars and that was while being there for almost 6 hours. Heck one of those listening sessions was only for 5 minutes. 

I have pondered this thought though, that perhaps we have alternating events of both types. Right now we have what I would consider to be more of a bbq type event (even if we do not bbq lol) where we are just a bunch of people that are there to have a good time and make friends. We could have this one one time then the next one could be a structured event with various learning sessions. This has worked for another hobby that I have been part of. But they were indoor events and did not need 12 hours to have the structured event. Time to me is the biggest issue I see with adding structure. I read about the comps and how they are still judging into the late late hours of the night. For a GTG is that really feasible?


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## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

We are all open to give you a demo of our vehicles. Some of us do help with the shows but if you want a demo, we will gladly.
I know you bring up listening time, but between Sogden and I we each try to give auditions with both our selected tracks as well as the listeners.
Generally we do have food vendors at the shows, but with the SQ only shows we are planning, BBQing is a big plausible thing, because who can refuse a juicy burger and steak( if you bring it ill cook it.lol)


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Cabinatan1 said:


> We are all open to give you a demo of our vehicles. Some of us do help with the shows but if you want a demo, we will gladly.
> I know you bring up listening time, but between Sogden and I we each try to give auditions with both our selected tracks as well as the listeners.
> Generally we do have food vendors at the shows, but with the SQ only shows we are planning, BBQing is a big plausible thing, because who can refuse a juicy burger and steak( if you bring it ill cook it.lol)


Thank you for the response.

I see you say TRY and I also know that the real subzero has tried several times to get to sit in Smogdens truck and has yet to do so. That gives me the impression that time will not always allow for demoing the comp cars and demoing eachothers cars is the main part of our events as far as I know. That also does not seem like it would be likely that others that are competing would have the time to check out cars that are not competing. 

Sorry if all of this sounds negative but I am just trying to see where the main focus of our GTG's would be capable of happening during your competitons. It does not look to me like both can happen easily with only a comp type event. This, to me, confirms the need for both types of events to continue on in their current fashion. 

As long as both events do not happen on the same weekend then there should be the possibility for people to attend both if they want to.


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## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

Both events can occur simultaneously as there are vehicles who show up strictly to do demos and not compete.

I also brought up we are working on the SQ strictly shows where there would be both friendly competition and vehicle demonstrations.

There are


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## Cabinatan1 (Jan 22, 2013)

There are a lot of SQ individuals who give demos all the time, but in the case of Smodgen he is an official who is working to make shows perform smoothly.

You cannot judge a show from a computer chair, best thing is to come out and see for yourself.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Cabinatan1 said:


> There are a lot of SQ individuals who give demos all the time, but in the case of Smodgen he is an official who is working to make shows perform smoothly.
> 
> You cannot judge a show from a computer chair, best thing is to come out and see for yourself.


I understand what you are saying but please keep in mind that not everyone want to attend comp events let alone participate. You, Smog and your dad seem to want everyone to conform to your methods insted of accepting that there are different strokes for different folks. My self, for my system, I just want to get it to a very nice level and then enjoy it from there.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Cabinatan1 said:


> I wish we had more "hotrods" type restaurants in Phoenix


What about the Pavillions on Indian Bend just East of Pima Rd?
Seems to me the McDonalds there always supported all kinds of automotive events.
I would assume Saturday nights are still a big hot rod scene.

http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/venues/The_Pavilions_at_Talking_Stick_840579234100


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

dcabinatan said:


> I agree that there is a lack of knowledge nowadays, but having been in this industry since 1985, there's nothing to provide insight anymore like in the good old days. The days are gone of Car Stereo Review or Car Audio & Electronics magazines that showcased car audio product, build tips as well as highlighting all of the shows going on all over the world. These magazines showed off the work of great installers and shops and competitors, which prompted people to flock to them for work on their own vehicles. Do you think anyone outside of the small cliques know any of the "Installer of the Year" winners? Imagine if any of the "Installer of the Year" winners showed up at sound offs and showed why they won said award!! It doesn't help, though, that there are far too many "shops" that somehow were able to get a business license and buy everything from the local "distributor" who let's everyone in his warehouse, business license or not. These are the shops that have NO experience, background or knowledge in 12volt or car audio give car audio a black eye. You can't even go to them for advice. God knows how many of them I go into acting like a regular customer, and after asking a few questions, I walk out convinced that some customer will be coming to me to re-do what they did. When an installer gives me the blank stare about "what ohms/impedance are these subs", or that it doesn't matter what the enclosure volume is for any subs, they don't belong in this business.
> I agree, there are lots of people with phenominal sound systems that would give lots of the local competitors a run for their money, and they choose not to compete. I was one of them until I decided I wanted a new truck. But you know a competitor doesn't want to know that there are non-competitors who could mop up the floor with them.
> Car audio as a hobby is great. Car audio competition is like sports, IT'S COMPETITION!! If you're a hobbyist, you should be able to keep it at that. Competitiors are going to keep evolving their systems to reach for those awards. Both ARE and CAN be fun, it's up to the individual. If someone wants "feedback", than maybe they should seek out all of these "Installer of the Year" winners. Apparantly there's a reason why they won that award.
> I'm curious, how do you feel my son is a NOOB? His age? You're a veteran/expert? Why, your age? He's been involved with car audio since he was about 5, because of my involvment with it all, which goes back to the mid 80's. Some of the industry experts he knows is from being exposed to them from my meetings with them or from my having worked for three of biggest car audio manufacturers that were located in Tempe, Az.. Alot of what he's learned has either been from me or people of industry, not from the local hacks. I don't know you,and I don't mean to disrespect you, but I think it's disrespectful to call someone a NOOB when you don't even know what they're about, especially after one meeting.
> *And I'm sorry, but Buzzman's "GTGs" NEED to have some type of structure of what the hell is going on. I've been to the last two and kept wondering what the hell was supposed to be going on. The only people I knew was Bob Morrow and Casey Thorsen, and that's because I order product through them. No attempt was made to announce who was present, who's vehicle was open for demonstrations, if anyone needed help with their systems. People keep saying they don't compete but would still like to know how their system performs, so why not have a RTA there? It's hard to rub elbows with anyone or know who's brain to pick when the "experts" aren't introduced*.




I finally read through the entire thread and to be honest, many of your comments and your implied intentions have left a bad taste in my mouth.
Presenting your ideas is one thing, but tearing down someone else's approach in order to support your arguments is another (see example above).

*Take my advice and avoid coming across heavy handed in this forum.*

Maybe the best way for you to proceed is to go ahead and put on the event you envision and see how that works for you.
There's over five million people in the greater Phoenix area so your turn out should be impressive if you get the word out properly and don't turn off people with your attitude.

I make trips to Phoenix more often than I care to (lived there for 34 years), and right now, I would be more interested in scheduling my trip around the local GTG......just sayin'.

Actually, the more I think about it, it's likely that we know each other since I competed in the 80-90's using the truck pictured below.












Remember the mini-truck club called Mini Concepts? I was it's President for many years.
Remember Soundwerks on Scottsdale Rd?
Brent the owner was a good friend of mine.

So, if you're looking for the support of this forum, you might want to reconsider how you're coming at us in your posts.

Oh and one more thing, the owner of this forum lives in Scottsdale and has always supported the SQ realm including locally.
Just something else you should think about when moving forward with your vision. 

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## dcabinatan (Nov 26, 2009)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I finally read through the entire thread and to be honest, many of your comments and your implied intentions have left a bad taste in my mouth.
> Presenting your ideas is one thing, but tearing down someone else's approach in order to support your arguments is another (see example above).
> 
> *Take my advice and avoid coming across heavy handed in this forum.*
> ...


Bret, I remember Mini Concepts, and I remember Soundwerks, I believe that's where my friend Albert worked. Don Ciardullo is there, right? I was in a mini truck club called Devonair Minis and I also hung out with Lil Rascals mini truck club. The good old days. Although I don't think many people liked the president of Devonair Minis. 
I didn't intend to come off heavy handed, it's just that I get frustrated with how things get handled or people's attitude towards things in the car audio world. I normally stay away from all of competition scene, because I thought they were a far cry from they used to be, at least here in Arizona, but since my son got interested a few years back and decided to represent our shop by competing, I support him and attend the shows that I can attend. MECA here in Arizona has had some struggles over the past couple of years, due to drama with the state event coordinators, and it's in different hands now, and I think that there's been damage done that's going to take quite awhile for the current coordinator to overcome. The only action now is hosted in Tucson because no one in Phoenix wants to host MECA events. That's what frustrates me. The local manufacturers will support an event hosted in conjunction with USACi or IASCA, but why not MECA. A couple of my dealer reps came out either last year or the year before and said they would no longer support MECA with the product lines they represent, due to all of the drama. This past January there was a MECA event in Tucson at Hot Rods Old Vail, and I agreed to be a sponsor and set up a tent and showed off product and my son had his SQ vehicle on display giving demos. Imagine my shock when these reps actually supported me with POP to give out!! I'm sure it was because it was through me and not directly to the event. Today's shops don't have the exposure to the public like in the old days. Everyone flocked to Speaker Works in California, or any of the other shops or installers that were made popular due the old magazines always showcasing their work or how many competitions their customers were winning. People always wanted to see what they were going to come out with next. And you always saw these vehicles at sound offs. Like I've said, not everyone builds their systems for competition, and that's perfectly ok, but if I had customers who had me build them show worthy vehicles and stereo systems, I sure as hell would be asking them to at least show up at an event or two just to show case my shop's work. I don't understand why ANY shops don't take a vehicle or two to the sound offs. It's free advertising and it helps generate interest and potential new customers. Any more now, the sound off competitors are all DIYers who bought all of the stuff online with no help from any shops.
I know that the guys from MECA are trying to get more exposure for the SQ portion of car audio, and that's great. And I know that they were trying to incorporate a MECA SQ competition with the GTG that Buzzman's coordinating, and even I will have to admit that it's not a good mix at all. I understand their intentions, but I think they were being a little too pushy with it. I'm not an active MECA member or have anything to do with their way of doing things, I just support my son, but I got a bad taste in my mouth for some of the comments made to my son and Steve Ogden because it seemed to me that they and MECA were being looked down upon. I interpreted some of the comments as if the guys trying to put on this GTG thought they were too high class or sophisticated to have anything to do with either MECA or it's competitors. That's just my opinion/interpretation, and mine alone. It's up to my son and Steve Ogden to get over the responses to their efforts. 
I've seen comments from people saying that they WANT to attend the GTG, but that because of the drive or having to take time off from work to attend, that they want it WORTH the drive or time off from work. So why am I the a-hole for saying that there should be a little bit of structure to this GTG to make it worth the drive or time off from work? 
Bret, I don't claim to know it all or be the best, but I am good at what I do, and I'm also not afraid to be the one to ask the questions. 24 years in the Air Force as an aircraft inspector and quality assurance and now as a quality assurance inspector for the DoD makes you that way, and in my case, a little too anal. I didn't intend to offend or dis-respect you or anyone with my comments. I don't normally get on this forum site either, so when I saw some of the the back and forth posts, I got frustrated. I hope we've all gotten all of this out of systems and can GET TOGETHER and have a GREAT time.
That aside, do you live up to your name of PPI-Art Collector? How much do you have? I worked for PPI back in the day, and had my share of their product. Sure wish I could my hands on a couple of 2350DMs.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

dcabinatan said:


> I've seen comments from people saying that they WANT to attend the GTG, but that because of the drive or* having to take time off from work to attend*, that they want it WORTH the drive or time off from work. So why am I the a-hole for saying that there should be a little bit of structure to this GTG to make it worth the drive or time off from work?
> .


The only person in the GTG thread that said they drive a lot and want to make it worth their while was Smogden. His approach was very strong and pushy. His sencond post in that thread stated expicitly that he needed to get points to make it worth his while. This was after it was mentioned that comps were not the intention of these GTG's. Everyone else that makes the drive comes to hang out and have fun. JT even posted pics of their SoCal events where they do just what we do. Jon W. brings his "Magic Bus" here soley for others to get a chance to hear it. He has been at both of the last two and might make this one too. 

As for takiing time off work, that is me that does that and I do that soley for having a good time. I stand by my statement in that hread that if this were to be an all structured event that I would be much less interested in taking time off work for that. My time off work is to relax and enjoy myself and to get away from structure . 

Having both types of events should be better then just one btw. This way there is even more exposure to SQ since there are more opertunities to hear SQ cars. I, myself would have never turned to SQ if it were not for these events. 

Also if you do a search on this site for GTG you will see that this is the common style for these events across the US. Infact back east where comps are plentiful, the competition members seem to still attend/throw these very types of events and I see no mention of structure. 

FWIW I am not and do not think any of us are against you, your son, or Smogden at all or the comp events in general. It is just how you and Smogden have come across in your initial posts. You guys have come across as pushy and strong and that just does not go over well imho. If you guys had just come around and started your own event and put it out there I am sure many would come and check it out. I think that is still possible. 

I wish you guys luck with your events.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

dcabinatan said:


> Bret, I remember Mini Concepts, and I remember Soundwerks, I believe that's where my friend Albert worked. Don Ciardullo is there, right? I was in a mini truck club called Devonair Minis and I also hung out with Lil Rascals mini truck club. The good old days. Although I don't think many people liked the president of Devonair Minis.
> I didn't intend to come off heavy handed, it's just that I get frustrated with how things get handled or people's attitude towards things in the car audio world. I normally stay away from all of competition scene, because I thought they were a far cry from they used to be, at least here in Arizona, but since my son got interested a few years back and decided to represent our shop by competing, I support him and attend the shows that I can attend. MECA here in Arizona has had some struggles over the past couple of years, due to drama with the state event coordinators, and it's in different hands now, and I think that there's been damage done that's going to take quite awhile for the current coordinator to overcome. The only action now is hosted in Tucson because no one in Phoenix wants to host MECA events. That's what frustrates me. The local manufacturers will support an event hosted in conjunction with USACi or IASCA, but why not MECA. A couple of my dealer reps came out either last year or the year before and said they would no longer support MECA with the product lines they represent, due to all of the drama. This past January there was a MECA event in Tucson at Hot Rods Old Vail, and I agreed to be a sponsor and set up a tent and showed off product and my son had his SQ vehicle on display giving demos. Imagine my shock when these reps actually supported me with POP to give out!! I'm sure it was because it was through me and not directly to the event. Today's shops don't have the exposure to the public like in the old days. Everyone flocked to Speaker Works in California, or any of the other shops or installers that were made popular due the old magazines always showcasing their work or how many competitions their customers were winning. People always wanted to see what they were going to come out with next. And you always saw these vehicles at sound offs. Like I've said, not everyone builds their systems for competition, and that's perfectly ok, but if I had customers who had me build them show worthy vehicles and stereo systems, I sure as hell would be asking them to at least show up at an event or two just to show case my shop's work. I don't understand why ANY shops don't take a vehicle or two to the sound offs. It's free advertising and it helps generate interest and potential new customers. Any more now, the sound off competitors are all DIYers who bought all of the stuff online with no help from any shops.
> I know that the guys from MECA are trying to get more exposure for the SQ portion of car audio, and that's great. And I know that they were trying to incorporate a MECA SQ competition with the GTG that Buzzman's coordinating, and even I will have to admit that it's not a good mix at all. I understand their intentions, but I think they were being a little too pushy with it. I'm not an active MECA member or have anything to do with their way of doing things, I just support my son, but I got a bad taste in my mouth for some of the comments made to my son and Steve Ogden because it seemed to me that they and MECA were being looked down upon. I interpreted some of the comments as if the guys trying to put on this GTG thought they were too high class or sophisticated to have anything to do with either MECA or it's competitors. That's just my opinion/interpretation, and mine alone. It's up to my son and Steve Ogden to get over the responses to their efforts.
> I've seen comments from people saying that they WANT to attend the GTG, but that because of the drive or having to take time off from work to attend, that they want it WORTH the drive or time off from work. So why am I the a-hole for saying that there should be a little bit of structure to this GTG to make it worth the drive or time off from work?
> ...



Ah the mini-truck world of the late 80's and early 90's.
Lot's of fun to be had back then.
I worked for ISTA and Ratical Tops while going to ASU.
I even wrote a How To book for ISTA on mini-truck clubs.
In hindsight, I should've tried for an assembly line job at PPI. 

As for my collection, my intro page can answer that for you. 
Here's a link to it:

DIYMA Car Audio Forum - View Profile: PPI-ART COLLECTOR

Here's a link to my OS PPI build thread:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...burban-old-school-contemporary-build-log.html

And here's a link to my PPI ART amplifier recondition thread:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...eries-2-amplifier-reconditioning-repairs.html

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Smogden (Jun 12, 2012)

Actually-----
I gave some ideas. The guys in that forum said no. Didn't even consider them. I have been very flexible. When I saw what was done to Jon K. I am not associated myself with a group of people that do not honor their host and who changes plans/venues ONE WEEK before the event. 

I wouldn't say I was pushy. Maybe I was. Who knows. All I know is you guys wouldn't even consider what I was saying- like I was a no body in the SQL scene. If I was pushy- I am deeply sorry. 

I was planning on bringing several people up with me to this event. What went down on that forum as of late- I won't be. If y'all can't see the value of the host then I can't associate. They are the most important aspect. They sell product that we use, the supply a location, the let us use their facilities, the promote through their distributors and so on. 

Tell you what- I have show in Tucson on March 3rd. It will be structured. It is planned, we have a great host- you are more than welcome to come by. SQL competitors (MECA members) is only $15 to enter. Please see what we do. Also you can tell person to person what your thoughts are. It is much easier that way then over te Internet. Or you could call me. 

We were told to shut up and color. Not very good when me and Paul both explained we have a passion for the SQL community. Y'all were extremely unwelcoming to our thoughts. So what we didn't want to have a giant BS session. We wanted some structure. 
I even mentioned me teaching a class in EQ tuning and was told no. We have been trying to reach out to te GTG crowd for sometime, but we seem to be getting the cold shoulder. Look at my signature block--- I do have some credentials. Just saying. 

I think people need to be focusing on how we all can get along better and not bicker all that much. 

And with demos in my truck at shows. I am an official, I plan the shows, and do a little bit of judging. I am on the go. But with that said- I am not going to please with people to listen to my truck. If someone wants to hear it- come get me and I will give you a demo. Easy. I won't come remind you about it. When people want to hear my son's power wheels- I demo it. I teach him how to demo it as well. He is 5yrs old. 
Last show I demo'd to several people. All they have to do is ask. I will let them here it. At a show- te best time to get an SQL demo is prior to judging or after judging during SPL. Come find me- I will let you listen. 

What we should r doing is figuring ways to incorporate the two groups. I have mentioned SQL only shows. We don't need any power. 
We can do out competition early, then do a burger burn, then do classes, demos whatever after lunch. Invite people out to talk. Teach people how to evaluate their own systems and others, BS. All that. Give the trophies out at the end. That way you can determine what you like and what you don't like. You can ask questions why this vehicle scored higher than another. 
See get together and competitions can work together. You just have to have people willing to work together. Nothing happens by its self. Everything takes work and planning.


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