# Veritas composite 1” exit



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Okay gang , 
So I just installed the Veritas composite set in the van with a brand new set of B&C DE550 polymide drivers , and they sound like complete dog **** threw and through. They sound hollow, and DRY. I don’t think the word rough is adequate word to explain it, extremely rough and dry around 700hz to 2000hz . They basically only good as a tweeter. 

I put the brand new set of drivers on my ES horns and they sound just fine 

I put the cd10nd on, it was worse! (And that’s a very good driver I’ve owned for a while now) 

So what’s the trick? Are these really that crappy. I actually took them out and mounted the ES minis on and it’s just fine sounding. I can’t stand even having it in one of my cars it’s a embarrassment. I actually can’t believe this went to market what the hell is this crap. I’ve never used anything but ES horns so I never heard a set till now, I figured there would be small differences in dispersion etc but didn’t expect it to be god awful. 

The low end is horrible. There’s a resonance that just barks and ruins The sound so bad it’s unusable (literally) Either everyone that ran these horns were either 1. Lying (or unwittingly didn’t know) about there systems sounding good or 2. Did something I don’t know of or 3. Used a high crossover above 1.6k. So which is it. 

The A2TB book highly regards this design and I just can’t see it. I tryed every sort of eq and even used my room correction algo to try to force a good sound by removing resonance to no avail, the resonance dominates the sound. 

If anyone has an idea I’ll try it otherwise there for sale and I’ll just wash my hands of bad horn designs. I just thought it would be cool to try a set. It would be cool to at least make them more than a very big tweeter 

Thanks in advance


----------



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

So I’m not going to put them in the van. Obviously I was ecstatically disappointed, 

If anyone wants them PM me.


----------



## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

A2TB had to regard them highly, RC was behind the design and A2TB.


----------



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Eric Stevens said:


> A2TB had to regard them highly, RC was behind the design and A2TB.


I should have known. The A2TB book has no mention of ID horns and it says “other brands” after naming illusion, Veritas ,usd and protech. Anyway though that was strange. Nothing bad, just no mention. :/ 
————-


Sorry guys for the unpleasant post and rant. Tiny bit unprofessional, my apologies. I would have thought they were close to ES horns, I just thought it would be different, you know like throwing a jbl HM17-25 horn on and it sounds good but just different 

I guess I wasn’t ready for that experience. Maybe I’ll try them again, how would I calm that ringing down........I hate dynamat because it gets everything gooey with black stuff when you touch them to something. I might have to just do dynamat and something....at this point it’s not worth trying to make cherry pie out of d&@$hit. I’ll think about what to do with them.....

Anyways , sorry about that.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

oabeieo said:


> Okay gang ,
> So I just installed the Veritas composite set in the van with a brand new set of B&C DE550 polymide drivers , and they sound like complete dog **** threw and through. They sound hollow, and DRY. I don’t think the word rough is adequate word to explain it, extremely rough and dry around 700hz to 2000hz . They basically only good as a tweeter.
> 
> I put the brand new set of drivers on my ES horns and they sound just fine
> ...





















Do they look like this?

If so, a few observations:

1) reflectors are bad news, avoid if possible

2) modern compression drivers generally have a larger exit angle than older compression drivers. For instance, some of the Faital and JBL compression drivers have exit angles as high as 20+ degrees these days. When you combine a compression driver like that with a reflector, you're going to get a massive reflection back down the throat. It's like pinching off a water hose, it creates turbulence, it screws up the wavefront in irreparable ways. Older compression drivers generally had much narrower exit angles.

3) I tried modeling that funky looking diffraction slot in ABEC and it was ugly. I'm not entirely sure why it's there. (That thing where the center of the horn is narrower than the sides.)


----------



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Do they look like this?
> 
> If so, a few observations:
> 
> ...



I don’t know why it’s there either , maybe an attempt at getting more energy to go to the side and more lost direct energy that couldn’t make it around the bend ...IDK 


what do forensic anthropologists study


Stevens horn has this lip like any home audio horn I’ve ever seen , you can see it’s similar to the JBL horn I mentioned simply playing off axis and firing in the same manner as if pointed towards to center of the car , but than the rest of the horn after the flare to control things to the exit, and I’m sure for a little lower response , but it’s most meaningful before the flare like a traditional horn is. 

This other one I just don’t get it. But a nice fellow (thanks mark!) took time out of his day to tell me about putting a object in the mouth to stop the resonance, and it actually seems to work decent. But definitely not as nice sounding as Es horn. Still has a hollow ringing and a massive loss in efficiency in the treble. 

I put a rubber ball in the moth of the Veritas and it seems to be a lot better now. 

So I’ll try it again as soon as I have time to remount them in the van


----------



## Diezel10 (Dec 22, 2010)

Good Morning,
Hopefully that link works.......:shy:

I've read the OP's feedback/experience three times....all of them true...but I've been chasing a dream for the past 5 years...and everyone here has assisted (From Patrick Batemen to Mikey7182, Obe., Etc) and supported/tolerated (Thank you Eric / Matt) 

I have the Aluminum waveguides originally AW 1.75 & CW4-44
then the evolution began

1st retrofitted with BE Diaphragm
then
Extrude Honed (Abrasive Flow Machining)
then 
TAD 4002
back to Radian / BE driver
Entire Dashboard Redesigned to create a brace that would "strap" these horns "Up-In & Down" to eliminate that "Ring", as Matt explained it to me,
tuned then the venue of approach; reticulated foam...then HOMster Method implemented......and finally....finally.....its sounds impressive......

At this time (& it's tuned somewhat - Thank you Matt)

Now I am going to purchase Eric's Horns & 4 of the 8's

so it begins


https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1LNm1u_Y54NNdgq0jkBayiuXNhjwRkUxS


----------



## SQram (Aug 17, 2007)

I have the passive response compensator network box that used to ship with the Veritas horns, if someone wants it I can drop it in a mailbox.


----------



## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SQram said:


> I have the passive response compensator network box that used to ship with the Veritas horns, if someone wants it I can drop it in a mailbox.


That might be kinda cool 

You got my attention 



So nice to see you guys back on the forums 



Diezel10 said:


> Good Morning,
> Hopefully that link works.......:shy:
> 
> I've read the OP's feedback/experience three times....all of them true...but I've been chasing a dream for the past 5 years...and everyone here has assisted (From Patrick Batemen to Mikey7182, Obe., Etc) and supported/tolerated (Thank you Eric / Matt)
> ...




Ooooh snap! It’s going to be sick 


I remember your ram and was drooling over the TADs


I got a set , rebuilding them ....I need to get back on that


----------



## Diezel10 (Dec 22, 2010)

I'm always checking in and reading but time and all the projects just keep pushing this endeavor back...

But all of you are appreciated!!


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

I'm always looking for an excuse to make waveguides, I make horns like some people doodle in a notebook.

So if there's some weird-ass design that you've always wanted to see in real life, I'm easily motivated to design it.

Basically I hate making crossovers and I hate finishing projects but I love designing horns.


----------

