# Peerless XXLS aluminum cone 12" sub



## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

For quite a while I've figured that the XXLS was going to be the sub for me. From Npdang's review where he states findings such as "about as good as it gets (BL + KMS curves)" and "excellent quality control", to meeting my modest power and depth requirements, to knowing just how natural a super low distortion driver can sound (like my B&C midbasses), this just seemed like the perfect sub.








I came close to buying the DVC or autosound version, but between being curious about trying an aluminum cone sub, and fellow board member Rbsarve's glowing remarks about this model, I decided to be patient and wait 'till it's release. When the 10" hit Madisound's website, I asked c0mpl3x (Dylan at timbre-audio.com) when the 12" was going to be shipping, and sure enough it was available right away. A very nice surprise!








DIYMA has been the main reason that I've delved into this hobby as deeply as I have, and as a result, I've had very good luck with choosing gear that suits the sound/performance that I was after. Most aspects of my system are still in the "almost finished" stage, mainly in regards to installation, but all this gear is staying for the long term:
Sub: 12" XXLS in sealed mdf box in trunk, rear firing
Midbasses: B&C 6ndl44 in doors
Midrange: BG Neo8 in a-pillars
Tweeters: BG Neo3pdr in a-pillars
Headunit: Pioneer 880prs
Amp 1: Massive Audio RS 40.4 bridged to midbasses
Amp 2: JL Audio e6450 for sub, mids, tweets
Processors: PPI FRX-456 crossover, Memphis 16-EQP7 parametric eq

The sub is has approximately 325 watts on tap from the JL amp, and I've ran it in my 1.5 cube box both unstuffed and now stuffed with 2 pounds of polyfill to bring it to around 1.9 cubes. At the moment it's crossed at 80hz, 30db slope.
How does it sound? 
Like nothing!
At least not like anything that isn't in the signal that it's receiving. In other words, Awesome!








I had this same reaction when I first fired up my B&Cs. These drivers are so squeaky clean, it's like a freshly Windexed pane of glass. Man, what a refreshing change from some of the car audio specific drivers I've used. It's actually hard for me to imagine it being any more clean and transparent. I can see other subs with lots more potential output, but in terms of purity of response, this sub is on the very top most shelf. 
And in regards to output, it has every bit I need and then some. My Mazda MX-6 that it's installed in is a small coupe about the same size as an Integra, but it's not a hatchback. I have a mdf amprack that fills the pass-through behind the fold down rear seats, and the rear shelf 6x8 speakers are removed. This arrangement allows at least a couple of db's of headroom on the sub, enough to overpower my front stage. Considering that I'm giving the B&Cs 150 watts @ 8ohms, and the Jl amp is definitely not a "monster", I think the efficiency and overall displacement of the sub is excellent.
Before installing the XXLS, I never really got off on subwoofers, at least not in a car. I addressed the sub last in my install by design, opting instead to concentrate on even midrange and treble by trying a 'zillion different mounting locations and tuning options for my mids and tweets. Once the fronts got to around 85% of how I wanted them, I could start to care about the sub. I now understand what other pure SQ guys get excited about in subs. This thing has such a broad range and open sounding ease in what it reproduces, that it really gives the system a big, muscular sound even at modest volumes. Just because this sub may not move as much air as some of the super subs out there, don't think for a second that it's wimpy. It blends better than any other other sub I've used, but at the same time it lays a really strong and deep foundation for the rest of the system. It pressurizes the cabin with authority!








In regards to the box it's in, I prepared myself for the possibility of having to build a bigger one than my current 1.5 cuber. I generally like bigger boxes, and my previous JBL sub was running in over 1/2 cube more than JBL's recommendation. It turned out to be a nice surprise when I fired it up for the first time. It felt just slightly peaky in it's highest registers, but it also played so low that it was fairly balanced. I ran it like this for about a week, and then pulled it out and stuffed the box with a pound of Acousti-stuff from P.E., and a pound of plain polyfill from Joannes' fabric store. If you haven't tried polyfill yet, do it! The effect it had was clearly noticeable, and the response smoothed out beautifully. I'm sure you could give the sub an even bigger box and get some stupid low end out of it, but since my midbasses start to drop off around 70hz, this virtual 1.9 cube setup is pretty close to just right. With a little eq work, the 1.5 could've worked too.








All in all, the XXLS is just perfect for me. It seems like the poster child for what this site is all about. Clean yet rich, great transients, modest size and power requirements and cheaper than an IDQ. I never imagined that I'd run a sub as loud as I am with this one, but it just sounds so nice that I can justify a little bump up in the low end. It's sorta like a tastes great, less filling situation. 
Try one out, this driver is truly great.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

Nice. I've had my eye on that one from Tymphany's site, but Madisound didn't have it listed back when I was looking.

I'm curious about your interpretations. The sound you decribe is very similar to my impression of the Dayton's Reference HF sub I tried, airy, light, and squeaky clean. The Dayton just doesn't offer tremendous excursion and lower notes sound muddy to me, not full and authoritative, rather more aloof and unconnected. It was the only odd nitch in a great sub. I still really like the Dayton, but I've been on the search for one that sounds the same but with a more coherent and solid low end. The Pioneer I have now is the closest one so far. 

The XXLS subs have interested me for a couple years, but I've never jumped on one simply for the price. I've tried others with varying degrees of good success. I've got too many subs lying around for me to try one out at the moment, lol, but I may have to look into that one in the future.

What other subs have you tried and could you compare them a little bit with the XXLS sub?


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

mvw2 said:


> What other subs have you tried and could you compare them a little bit with the XXLS sub?


In the car, unfortunately nothing in this same class. JBL GTO 1202 was my last one, and I thought it was great for the low low price. Relative to XXLS, it sounded contained and never really sounded bigger than it's box if know what I mean. It was very smooth and even, but didn't reach as high or low as the XXLS. Before that was a 10 year old Kicker C12, which was amazing for super low power(125 watts), but not worth any kind of comparison.
I work as a recording and live sound engineer and have used many many subs in that context. Genelec, EAW, JBL, KRK, Mackie, etc... Again, hard to make a direct comparison, but I'll say that I'll never spend the big bucks for one of those again. In the studio, I'll make my own with one of these Peerless for sure.

I would never, ever use the words muddy or disconnected when describing this driver... might be just what your looking for.


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## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

I'm a big Peerless fan. Tymphany has absolutely fantastic build quality and very nice performance. Glad you're happy with it.

Do you have any pictures of your a-pillars? How do you like the Bohlander-Graebner combination up there? What are your crossover points? Sorry to hijack for a moment, but it seems rather interesting. You can pm me if you'd prefer it.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

That's funny, I just PM'd him the same questions.


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

Punk0Rama said:


> Tymphany has absolutely fantastic build quality


No doubt about it, but I have to say that as good as this one is, B&C seems even better. I've never seen drivers so solidly and neatly built as my midbasses. 

The BG setup is a long, long story  
I'll say that the thing about them, particularly the mids, is that it's all about their signature planar sound. I think you can find more traditional drivers that get the job done, often in a technically better way, with fewer pitfalls than these. Even so, I totally love them. Somebody on the forums used a phrase like "take a music bath", and these guys with their super wide dispersion and open tonality really can create that vibe.

The mids fire across the windshield and the tweets are semi on-axis to the listener. I tried the mids in kicks and they work great there, just not quite what I was going for, but it was close.
Crossovers:
Neo3- hp 8k 12db
Neo8- lp 8k 18db, hp variable between 752, 888, and 1k 12db. All sound good, just changes the imaging between the more diffused door drivers and the more centered/forward a-pillar drivers. I think I like 1k the best right now.

Really have to get a full install thread going to explain all the details about them. I'll get on it soon.


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## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

can we get a pic of the entire install...


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

Good that you felt the same whay that I do about these, it's nice when one's reccomendations hits home.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

I very much enjoyed the audition of this driver, very nice subwoofer indeed.


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

bdubs - A full install thread is coming soon... gotta take some more pics. I'm going to need some advice on fiberglassing my crazy a-pillars!
Thanks Manny, your subs sounded beautiful at the meet as well.

The new toy syndrome has calmed down a bit and I've lowered the gain on the Peerless by 2db and brought down the crossover point to 63hz/18db. I'm still extremely happy with this driver.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

where do you get these from? I dont see them on madisound website?

found the spec sheet if anyone wants it


http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=321


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## c0mpl3x (Nov 30, 2005)

newtitan said:


> where do you get these from? I dont see them on madisound website?
> 
> found the spec sheet if anyone wants it
> 
> ...


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

^^^ Yup Dylan is the man


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

azngotskills said:


> ^^^ Yup Dylan is the man


Dylan got this sub to me very quickly and for a nice price. He'll be my first choice for ordering drivers from now on.

Can somebody point me towards a grill for this thing. The Parts Express 2 piece grill doesn't even come close to fitting over the bulging surround. The open style bar grill does fit but will only protect it from large objects. I'd really like a plain metal mesh type but finding one with enough depth is proving to be a real pain.


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

I rather like JL audios grilles.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mr Perfect - how would you rate the 'pop' and 'snap' this sub produces in your application? 

Great review, btw!


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## redcalimp5 (Sep 10, 2007)

Gorgeous sub! Thanks for posting the pics!


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> Mr Perfect - how would you rate the 'pop' and 'snap' this sub produces in your application?
> 
> Great review, btw!


Glad you guys liked the review!
Pop and snap in terms of transients and dynamics are excellent. Crossed at 64hz, those aren't the first adjectives that would spring to mind, but I have heard subs that did seem to draw out and over-thicken the low end even with careful subtractive eq. This sub never sounds like that. 
Compared to the DIYMA 12"(heard in other cars), I think the Peerless is a bit heavier or fuller sounding, but it's very close and never crosses the line into sloppy at all. Hard to say because of different cars, boxes, tuning etc.. But for both of those subs I'd put speed of transient response as one of their best traits.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mr Perfect said:


> Glad you guys liked the review!
> Pop and snap in terms of transients and dynamics are excellent. Crossed at 64hz, those aren't the first adjectives that would spring to mind, but I have heard subs that did seem to draw out and over-thicken the low end even with careful subtractive eq. This sub never sounds like that.
> Compared to the DIYMA 12"(heard in other cars), I think the Peerless is a bit heavier or fuller sounding, but it's very close and never crosses the line into sloppy at all. Hard to say because of different cars, boxes, tuning etc.. But for both of those subs I'd put speed of transient response as one of their best traits.


Thanks for that.

I'm just curious what type of music you use when tuning? Reason being, we might use the same and can speak in more relative terms.


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> I'm just curious what type of music you use when tuning? Reason being, we might use the same and can speak in more relative terms.


Yeah, I like stuff with a blend of acoustic and electronic instruments. My faves are Bjork's Vespertine, Zero7's Simple Things/The Garden, Bob Marley's Uprising, Pink Floyd's Dark side of the Moon, Massive Attack's Mezzanine. 
Were you thinking of pop and snap more in terms of tonality or dynamics?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mr Perfect said:


> Yeah, I like stuff with a blend of acoustic and electronic instruments. My faves are Bjork's Vespertine, Zero7's Simple Things/The Garden, Bob Marley's Uprising, Pink Floyd's Dark side of the Moon, Massive Attack's Mezzanine.
> Were you thinking of pop and snap more in terms of tonality or dynamics?


Dynamics! But tonality is up there too. I need a sub that's responsive in a 1.5cuft sealed. I understand proper tuning, install, etc...but I also know from using a dozen or more subs that each has it's own unique characteristics irrespective tweakality. 

Ok, we have similar tastes then cool. On something like "Time" how does this sucker handle the low end in the first part of the song...specifically those deep bass notes right before "dinging away, the moments that make up a dull day...."

Sorry for the weird question, I'm kind of nerd when it comes to this stuff.


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> Dynamics!
> Ok, we have similar tastes then cool. On something like "Time" how does this sucker handle the low end in the first part of the song...specifically those deep bass notes right before "dinging away, the moments that make up a dull day...."
> 
> Sorry for the weird question, I'm kind of nerd when it comes to this stuff.


Don't apologize, the nerdier the better I think! 
Tell ya what, I'm going out to dinner tonight and on the way back I'll listen to that track and give you a detailed report.
In any event, I think you can do the 1.5cubes stuffed with a slight eq cut at 50hz and/or higher depending on where you cross it, and a little boost down low (I have 30hz at +1db). In a perfect world I'd move up to more like 2 cubes stuffed, but that's getting pretty picky.


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

The Floyd tracks sound great. The into to "Time" was dynamically seemless between the sub and midbasses. The bass was all up front and there was no overhang or sloppyness to draw attention to the sub. In the 1.5 cube box stuffed, I think the response was full and smooth, but maybe held back just a tiny bit in lowest registers.
The bassline in Money was a great test of dynamics, as the lowest note fundamental (5th note) is mostly in the sub range, and the rest of the line higher into midbass teritory. There was a slight tonality difference and I think I need a bit more eq work, but dynamically it was near perfect. The speed into and out of that lowest note was right on par with the midbasses, and I think was a good example of "snappiness".
Also, halfway through the guitar solo there's a break down section, where things get softer then quickly ramps up fast again. The bass plays double time and can be very busy and this was no sweat for the sub. Again, every bit as fast and responsive as my midbasses.
I honestly think that dynamically you can't ask for too much more than XXLS, and any issues can be worked out with box size and tuning. 
To summarize, I don't feel like I have to tune the sub, only the install. Not once did I feel like the sub wasn't capable of what I was sending it... quite confidence inspiring actually  
Hope that helped a bit.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mr Perfect said:


> The Floyd tracks sound great. The into to "Time" was dynamically seemless between the sub and midbasses. The bass was all up front and there was no overhang or sloppyness to draw attention to the sub. In the 1.5 cube box stuffed, I think the response was full and smooth, but maybe held back just a tiny bit in lowest registers.
> The bassline in Money was a great test of dynamics, as the lowest note fundamental (5th note) is mostly in the sub range, and the rest of the line higher into midbass teritory. There was a slight tonality difference and I think I need a bit more eq work, but dynamically it was near perfect. The speed into and out of that lowest note was right on par with the midbasses, and I think was a good example of "snappiness".
> Also, halfway through the guitar solo there's a break down section, where things get softer then quickly ramps up fast again. The bass plays double time and can be very busy and this was no sweat for the sub. Again, every bit as fast and responsive as my midbasses.
> I honestly think that dynamically you can't ask for too much more than XXLS, and any issues can be worked out with box size and tuning.
> ...


Yea man, totally. Must be why they call you Mr Perfect.  If I buy one of these now, just know it's _your_ fault.   

Another question, do you by chance own any of the Audionutz SQ disks?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Mr. Perfect,

How do you like your BG Neo 8's?


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> Yea man, totally. Must be why they call you Mr Perfect.  If I buy one of these now, just know it's _your_ fault.
> 
> Another question, do you by chance own any of the Audionutz SQ disks?


Nice... I'm installing 8s in my doors right now and if they're as loud as I think they'll be, I'd be tempted to add a second XXLS. Geez, this stuff is addicting... More! Louder! Screw the savings account!
I don't have the Audionutz disks, but they're on the wish list. Do you recommend any particular volume?


bassfromspace said:


> Mr. Perfect,
> 
> How do you like your BG Neo 8's?


I love 'em. If you've heard the Neo3s, then you know how they sound, just goes a lot lower. But how low depends on how you mount them, and in my install on the a-pillar with just a couple of inches of clearance in back, I wouldn't go below 750hz. That makes a huge difference though, and my stage is really high and wide. My favorite thing is that they allow many options on where to cross my tweets and midbasses.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mr Perfect said:


> Nice... I'm installing 8s in my doors right now and if they're as loud as I think they'll be, I'd be tempted to add a second XXLS. Geez, this stuff is addicting... More! Louder! Screw the savings account!
> I don't have the Audionutz disks, but they're on the wish list. Do you recommend any particular volume?


Cool, good luck. I just got mine in not too long ago. What really enticed me about your review was that you could not hear it back there. I hate hearing my sub! And I think I'd like to try another Tymphany driver as these Scan mids have mini sub output with the grace of a tweeter. 

I was asking about the Audionutz disks as another cross reference. Actually I wanted to see how "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" was on that sub (it's on Vol 3 - which is one of my favorites). But, he has like 62 total now so you can pretty much pick and choose what you like.


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## Arc (Aug 25, 2006)

I have some of the AN's disks and they are amazing. There are alot to choose from though.
Personally I think disk 1-4 are a must. The percussion disks are some of the best I have heard. 

B-Squad I am going to listen to that track so I can get an idea of the dynamics you are looking for. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Arc said:


> I have some of the AN's disks and they are amazing. There are alot to choose from though.
> Personally I think disk 1-4 are a must. The percussion disks are some of the best I have heard.
> 
> B-Squad I am going to listen to that track so I can get an idea of the dynamics you are looking for. Thanks for the suggestion.


It's a good looooooow extension tester track. Rumbles down like 20-25 hz I'm guessing and the builds and builds till the end. I'm sure you've heard it before, it's the theme music from Kubric's "2001: A Space Odyssey." I was curious if Mr P had it and could translate the feeling of that track. 

Actually, it's called "Also Sprach Zarathustra"....I was thinking of Nietzsche earlier.

**Edit: nevermind if you have Vol 3 already, it's the second track.


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> It's a good looooooow extension tester track. Rumbles down like 20-25 hz I'm guessing and the builds and builds till the end. I'm sure you've heard it before, it's the theme music from Kubric's "2001: A Space Odyssey." I was curious if Mr P had it and could translate the feeling of that track.
> 
> Actually, it's called "Also Sprach Zarathustra"....I was thinking of Nietzsche earlier.
> 
> **Edit: nevermind if you have Vol 3 already, it's the second track.


I've checked the sub using a test tone disk, and if I remember correctly nothing was audible until around 24 or 25hz. Probably a combo of my ears being a bit worn out and the smallish box size. If that's the standard your going for, and you are strictly limited to 1.5cubes, it might be a better idea to go for the autosound or other version of the XXLS that likes smaller boxes.
Gotta keep in mind that my midbasses are only strong down to 70hz or a bit lower, so your scans would likely want to mate to a lower tuned sub than mine.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mr Perfect said:


> I've checked the sub using a test tone disk, and if I remember correctly nothing was audible until around 24 or 25hz. Probably a combo of my ears being a bit worn out and the smallish box size. If that's the standard your going for, and you are strictly limited to 1.5cubes, it might be a better idea to go for the autosound or other version of the XXLS that likes smaller boxes.
> Gotta keep in mind that my midbasses are only strong down to 70hz or a bit lower, so your scans would likely want to mate to a lower tuned sub than mine.


Ok, I'm not 100% on the FR of that song...but i DO know it's low and rumbles very nicely until it snowballs at the end.

I have 1.5 cubes max. I can go smaller, obviously....and I can stuff too.

How does it do on MA's "Angel"? Some pretty bad ass driving bass there!


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> How does it do on MA's "Angel"? Some pretty bad ass driving bass there!


Oh yeah, now your talking my language! I listen to that album all the time and a lot of my comments in this thread are based off those tracks. The kick drum and bassline in Angel _will_ sound a bit top heavy without the polyfill, with it I'd say it's 90-95% where it should be.
Personally, I'm not afraid of EQ, particularly with a good parametric. If you feel the same, then the 1.5 cubes stuffed is plenty close enough to just tweak a little more electronically.
BTW- If anyone wants some seriously big bass combined with awesome SQ and incredible songwriting, pick up this album we're referring to, Massive Attack "Mezzanine". It'll give your system a serious workout!


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mr Perfect said:


> Oh yeah, now your talking my language! I listen to that album all the time and a lot of my comments in this thread are based off those tracks. The kick drum and bassline in Angel _will_ sound a bit top heavy without the polyfill, with it I'd say it's 90-95% where it should be.
> Personally, I'm not afraid of EQ, particularly with a good parametric. If you feel the same, then the 1.5 cubes stuffed is plenty close enough to just tweak a little more electronically.
> BTW- If anyone wants some seriously big bass combined with awesome SQ and incredible songwriting, pick up this album we're referring to, Massive Attack "Mezzanine". It'll give your system a serious workout!


Great thanks again for the feedback. I can see how that song can be top heavy, but my Lotus does it very well....so it's going to be a battle. 

One last question if I may and then I will stop bugging you. We have very similar rear firing enclosures. When you mount, do you personally use some type of gasket under the lip or just screw it down and play it?


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## Soundsaround (Apr 22, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> I can see how that song can be top heavy, but my Lotus does it very well


Just a little top heavy in the unstuffed box... the polyfill made a really nice difference.


> One last question if I may and then I will stop bugging you. We have very similar rear firing enclosures. When you mount, do you personally use some type of gasket under the lip or just screw it down and play it?


The XXLS is just screwed down at the moment, but I like this stuff from PE: 
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=269-300
It's a very moist caulk, not like the weatherstripping style gaskets. Seems a bit easier to shape and squishes nicely


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Mr Perfect said:


> It's a very moist caulk


That's going in my sig! 

I'm totally getting some on my next PE order though. Weird how I've never even seen it on their site nor have heard of anyone using it? Me in PE's warehouse would be like a nympho in a sex shop.  

Oh, and I'll pick up the sub you just sold me on and let you know how it sounds.


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