# Helix DSP Pro MK2 or miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 V2.0



## Nirvana (Sep 18, 2009)

I had assumed I would go with the Helix DSP Pro MK2 for my upcoming build. However, recent posts on the following miniDSP C-DP 8x12 thread have made me consider this alternative.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion/339770-new-minidsp-c-dsp-8x12-15.html

My mandatory requirements of 6 high-level analog inputs and 10 analog outputs are satisfied by either DSP. Both also have optical and coax digital inputs that I require as well as master volume remote controls.

This is how their features compare:

Helix DSP Pro MK2:
• 8 inputs / 10 outputs (can do 3-way, rears and sub)
• 1.6" thick x 7" x 6"
• optical AND coax SPDIF inputs
• inputs are hierarchical, allowing OEM H/U sounds to be heard when they appear
• high-level inputs (high: 5V - 10V or high:10V - 20V); sensitivity control to optimize gain structure
• RCA output (8V)
• 64 bit DSP resolution @ 295 MHz
• 96K sample rate
• Asahi/Kasei DAC and ADC

miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 V2.0:
• 6 inputs / 12 outputs (can do 3-way, rears and sub)
• 1.6" thick x 8" x 4.8"
• optical AND coax SPDIF inputs
• assuming it works like the miniDSP 4x10 HD, digital input is mixed with analog input without selection
• high-level inputs (high: 8V - 12V)
• RCA output (6V)
• SHARC floating point DSP resolution @ 450 MHz
• 192KHz sample rate
• IIR/FIR capabilities
• input EQ
• Asahi/Kasei DAC and ADC

I currently own a miniDSP 4x10 HD that I use with my 2-channel audio system and I'm very familiar and comfortable with their tuning software. I have downloaded and played with the Helix software. It is different from the miniDSP's, but seems to be equally usable.

Where they differ considerably is price. The Helix ends up costing me $1,225 for the DSP, URC.3 remote and sales tax from my regional dealer. The miniDP costs $519 delivered. That's a considerable price difference! Is the Helix worth almost 2.5x the price of the miniDSP?

Which would you go with and what would factor into your decision?


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Nirvana said:


> Is the Helix worth almost 2.5x the price of the Minidsp?


No it's not.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Theslaking said:


> No it's not.


whats your extent of experience with both the mini and the helix? I have plenty of experneice with the helix obviously, and a good amount with the 6x8, and a bit with the 8x12. I disagree. 




specs are cool and all, but compare the software and support. 

Helix can do all of these, while the mini, as far as i know, cannot..

. Automatic source switching with assignable sensitivity and release times
. all pass filters
. 30 band parametric eq per channel
. clipping protection
. a much better controller if wanted (director) that does tone controlls, 20 presets, all types of volume control, voltage/temp monitoring, etc etc
. turn on/turn off delay
. bluetooth, usc, aux, or an extra digital input
. input eq per channel
. relative linking/unlinking of time alignment that doesnt overwrite anything (major plus)
. built in rta with auto eq
. more comprehensive crossover selection
. and the big one in my opinion.. relative adjustments with channel linking that doesnt overwrite other channels. you can unlink and relink channels as you please without overwriting anything. This is the only dsp on the market that i know of that does this, or anything like it. 

Swapping out a friends mini for a helix he noticed an obvious change in sound. I didnt bother listening before that day to do a comparison. 


After software features, comes support. You cannot beat the support that helix has. MSC America is at the top of my list for best support ive ever come across. You can email them or audiotech fischer directly with an issue with something in the software or even an idea on a feature, and guess what.. update within a week. Ive made suggestions on a whim in the past that were implemented, and so has erin (hes responsible for the little notes thing for saving new tunes). I cant comment on minidsp's support, but i havent heard of anything like this from them.

The mini is great for people on a budget if it fits their needs, but a blanket statement saying the helix isnt worth it over a mini is silly. I can think of 3 (possibly 4) cars that i have done in the past year that the mini 8x12 wouldnt be able to handle that the helix can.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

It's not worth 2.5x the cost. If you have to ask then your not looking for the best product, your asking for the best deal. 

If you ask me what I think the best DSP on the market is I would say the Helix. The best with cost consideration is the Minidsp. 

Helix is a step above what most people with a DSP will ever use. Shoot, the Minidsp probably is too.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Theslaking said:


> It's not worth 2.5x the cost.


to you i guess.. this is subjective. 




Theslaking said:


> If you have to ask then your not looking for the best product, your asking for the best deal.


Couldnt have said it any better


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

My experience with Helix is some. Minidsp is a lot. I became a Mini fanboy because at their price point their products are second to none. I can't lie the Dayton seems awesome but it isn't apples to apples here. 

Minidsp's customer service is the best I've seen. I have never had to use the customer service of MSC America ( Which is a compliment in itself). I've had Minidsp walk through software issues that were my fault and they have volunteered to rewrite firmware just for my situation(and they did). They forgot to address one issue when I sent something in and they told me before I noticed and then rectified it. They answer emails quickly and messages on the support forum faster. And most know about them offering up free replacement boards for those with issues. That's nearly unheard of.

If had I had to intergrate with a car via DSP, Helix would be my only choice. Skizer's knowledge has definitely made that future decision for me.


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## Nirvana (Sep 18, 2009)

I want to understand what the benefits are for a $700 premium other than "made in Germany" vs. "made in China".

Since no reseller will come to the defense of the miniDSP, it does a few of the things in your list that I have found in my research.



SkizeR said:


> specs are cool and all, but compare the software and support.
> I've found the miniDSP software to be quite good. I don't have first hand experience with their support though.
> 
> Helix can do all of these, while the mini, as far as i know, cannot..
> ...





SkizeR said:


> The mini is great for people on a budget if it fits their needs,


I thought everyone here was on a budget?


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

In some cases you just want the best and price doesn't matter. So not always on a budget. There's only one reseller that I'm aware of. Parts Express. And they just started. And they only sell a few of Minidsp's products. And they have their own DSP they are pushing. So there is no one to represent them in the US.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> . all pass filters


The MiniDSP can do all pass filters.



SkizeR said:


> . a much better controller if wanted (director) that does tone controlls, 20 presets, all types of volume control, voltage/temp monitoring, etc etc


Which adds another $250+ to the price. 



SkizeR said:


> turn on/turn off delay


99.9% sure the MiniDSP can also do this.



SkizeR said:


> bluetooth, usc, aux, or an extra digital input


$150 or so for those extra modules... sure the Mini DSP cannot do those, but lets not pretend Helix are giving you those out of the goodness of their hearts. 



SkizeR said:


> input eq per channel


The MiniDSP also does this.



SkizeR said:


> After software features, comes support. You cannot beat the support that helix has. MSC America is at the top of my list for best support ive ever come across. You can email them or audiotech fischer directly with an issue with something in the software or even an idea on a feature, and guess what.. update within a week. Ive made suggestions on a whim in the past that were implemented, and so has erin (hes responsible for the little notes thing for saving new tunes). I cant comment on minidsp's support, but i havent heard of anything like this from them.


While the Mini has not added any software features that I know of based on user input, they do take those ideas and are hopefully going to implement them. They did however, based on user feedback re-design the DSP and instead of selling as a new unit with an increased price, kept the price the same and swapped out the V1 boards at no cost (not even shipping) for an upgraded V2 board. Very very few companies out there would do that.



SkizeR said:


> I can think of 3 (possibly 4) cars that i have done in the past year that the mini 8x12 wouldnt be able to handle that the helix can.


Mind sharing some details? Link to a build log? I would be very surprised if that were true, happy to be proven wrong though. 


I previously owned a Helix DSP, not the Pro, just the regular DSP. The Helix is a great unit, if it were not, then you would not see so many people on here running them. For me the Helix software is nicer than the Mini DSP, although both are just as easy to use and equally as functional. Specs you already looked into and a you can see, ultimately it's a wash.

The V1 Mini DSP had an issue with noise, the V2 has no noise and if you had a V1, Mini were replacing it free of charge. That's an enormous positive in the Mini DSP column, I don't think many companies out there would have done such a thing, especially as the V2 is an upgrade to the V1. 

While I have absolutely no doubt the Helix Pro Mk2 is a great unit. My personal opinion, it's not worth 2.5x the cost of the C-DSP, not even close to worth it.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

The new C-DSP 8x12 v2 uses the same DAC chip as the Helix DSP Pro Mk.II. It’s a much better chip than the last C-DSP, and it’s how they lowered the noise floor. 

Sound quality wise they should be nearly equal unless one of the two screwed up the implementation, which is not likely.

If there’s features that the Helix has which you want, go that direction. Otherwise I’d probably get the MiniDSP and upgrade when the Mk.III comes out if I had an opportunity to use that center channel.


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## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Minidsp does have adjustable turn on delay.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

naiku said:


> The MiniDSP can do all pass filters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not all cars I do get a build log. Usually I dont so a build log if there is no custom work involved. Theres a couple bmws that I have done that needed a helix, a lexus, the vw golf r, Taurus before the pac amp pro (to high of voltage iirc), an audi I'm doing right now, the Honda accord I just posted, etc

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> Not all cars I do get a build log. Usually I dont so a build log if there is no custom work involved. Theres a couple bmws that I have done that needed a helix, a lexus, the vw golf r, Taurus before the pac amp pro (to high of voltage iirc), an audi I'm doing right now, the Honda accord I just posted, etc


Makes sense on not all of them getting a build log. 

You failed to answer my question though about what it is with those cars that the Helix can handle but not a Mini DSP. The Honda Accord (nice work!!) looks like it has a 3 way front plus a sub, nothing obviously out of the ordinary that the Mini DSP could not handle, or the non Pro Helix DSP, or in fact the Dayton DSP even. Assuming the Golf R was the one that was in the classifieds, 3 way front + sub + rears, the MiniDSP can handle that.... so what exactly in those build logs, necessitates a $1,200 DSP over a $500 or even in some cases a $150 DSP? You can't honestly sit there and try telling me that 100% of your customers are going to notice a sound difference between the 2, so it must come down to other reasons. Not trying to be combative, I am genuinely curious as to the reasons.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Because the sheer power of the helix. 31 bands parametric per channel vs 6per channel on the mini and around 6 per on the Dayton. If you can't extrapolate the rest. Just get a Dayton.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Because the sheer power of the helix. 31 bands parametric per channel vs 6per channel on the mini and around 6 per on the Dayton. If you can't extrapolate the rest. Just get a Dayton.
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


MiniDSP 8x12 has 10 parametric bands on each input and output.

This thread is not about the Dayton but just for for the sake of correct information: It has 10 parametric bands on each output channel but no input eq at all.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

Good to know. Thanks.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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## brainbot1 (Feb 19, 2016)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Because the sheer power of the helix. 31 bands parametric per channel vs 6per channel on the mini and around 6 per on the Dayton. If you can't extrapolate the rest. Just get a Dayton.
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


The helix is 31 band graphic EQ I thought? 

I like the parametric EQ because you can just through it in to REQ and get automated EQs which come out pretty much perfect on the first try.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

brainbot1 said:


> The helix is 31 band graphic EQ I thought?
> 
> I like the parametric EQ because you can just through it in to REQ and get automated EQs which come out pretty much perfect on the first try.


Nope, it's full parametric. Can still use with REW auto eq - just have the extra step of entering them in manually.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

naiku said:


> Makes sense on not all of them getting a build log.
> 
> You failed to answer my question though about what it is with those cars that the Helix can handle but not a Mini DSP. The Honda Accord (nice work!!) looks like it has a 3 way front plus a sub, nothing obviously out of the ordinary that the Mini DSP could not handle, or the non Pro Helix DSP, or in fact the Dayton DSP even. Assuming the Golf R was the one that was in the classifieds, 3 way front + sub + rears, the MiniDSP can handle that.... so what exactly in those build logs, necessitates a $1,200 DSP over a $500 or even in some cases a $150 DSP? You can't honestly sit there and try telling me that 100% of your customers are going to notice a sound difference between the 2, so it must come down to other reasons. Not trying to be combative, I am genuinely curious as to the reasons.


a lot of premium systems have voltages on the high level outputs of the oem amp that the mini cannot handle. Hell, the helix cant even handle some (but i havent run into that issue just yet). This is why some shops use the audiocontrol one even though the rest of its features are a joke.. it can handle 40 volts of input. The accord that i just did needed 2 optical inputs, etc. its not as simple as "its a 3 way plus sub, why cant it handle it?". Theres also a lot of request now to do 2 seat with center channel. Helix can do that.

cars i know of off the top of my head that a mini cant do due to voltage is Porsche and audi Bose cars 2016+, some maserati models (which also means some dodge models), BMW with harman kardon. Hell, most newer stuff with harman it wont be able to handle without clipping the inputs. B&O cars, aston martin (helix cant even do some of these), etc etc. I know these cars dont go hand in hand with what mini is all about (price to performance ratio), but these are all cars that i know about that i could not use a mini on if i even wanted to.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

naiku said:


> so what exactly in those build logs, necessitates a $1,200 DSP over a $500 or even in some cases a $150 DSP? You can't honestly sit there and try telling me that 100% of your customers are going to notice a sound difference between the 2,.


want me to give you the phone number of one of my customers in which i did a direct swap from a mini to a helix and he can tell you what he heard? He gave me the ok. hes also a "recovering" SPL guy who doesnt have much experience in the "listening to the finer details".


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## Nirvana (Sep 18, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> Theres also a lot of request now to do 2 seat with center channel. Helix can do that.


Wouldn't the 12 outputs of the miniDSP be better for a system with a center channel than 10 outputs form the Helix?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Nirvana said:


> Wouldn't the 12 outputs of the miniDSP be better for a system with a center channel than 10 outputs form the Helix?


that depends how many drivers are in the system as a whole. for 3 way front, plus center, plus rear, plus sub, thats 10 channels. If for some reason you wanted to run center active, that would be 11 channels so the mini would have an upper hand, but mini (or helix in their 10 channel model for that matter) do not have upmixers so its a lost cause anyway.


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## Nirvana (Sep 18, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> but mini (or helix in their 10 channel model for that matter) do not have upmixers so its a lost cause anyway.


OK, sure. It seems center channels aren't as well supported yet.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Nirvana said:


> OK, sure. It seems center channels aren't as well supported yet.


Helix is working on it. Both of the BMW's that i mentioned above have gotten them with their new upmixer.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> a lot of premium systems have voltages on the high level outputs of the oem amp that the mini cannot handle. Hell, the helix cant even handle some (but i havent run into that issue just yet). This is why some shops use the audiocontrol one even though the rest of its features are a joke.. it can handle 40 volts of input.


Thanks, that's pretty crazy that some of those systems are putting out such a high voltage. The Mini can handle up to 12V on the high level input, 4v on the low level input. Looks like the Helix has the advantage on high level inputs where it can take up to 20V into it. 




SkizeR said:


> Theres also a lot of request now to do 2 seat with center channel. Helix can do that.





SkizeR said:


> Mini (or helix in their 10 channel model for that matter) do not have upmixers so its a lost cause anyway.


How does the Helix handle center processing? Since as you said, neither DSP has an upmixer so it's a waste of time anyway. I remember reading a couple threads or posts about the Helix being able to do something with a center, but it not being a true center channel due to that lack of upmixing. 




SkizeR said:


> want me to give you the phone number of one of my customers in which i did a direct swap from a mini to a helix and he can tell you what he heard? He gave me the ok. hes also a "recovering" SPL guy who doesnt have much experience in the "listening to the finer details".


Perhaps I was not clear enough, I am just talking about the difference in a Helix Pro Mk2 vs the Mini V2. Assuming your customer did not have a V2 C-DSP then sure, he likely heard a difference. I heard a difference between my C-DSP V1 and V2, but do I think I could hear the same difference between the C-DSP and the Helix Pro MK2, nope, and I doubt many could in a blind test either. 

And I would also bet you retuned your customers system when installing the Helix. Especially a recovering SPL guy going from a Mini to the Helix.




SkizeR said:


> Helix is working on it. Both of the BMW's that i mentioned above have gotten them with their new upmixer.


What's your honest opinion on centers? Most people here refuse to even run rear fill, I wonder how much resources these companies are putting into features that may end up ditched in future because of limited uptake.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

naiku said:


> Thanks, that's pretty crazy that some of those systems are putting out such a high voltage. The Mini can handle up to 12V on the high level input, 4v on the low level input. Looks like the Helix has the advantage on high level inputs where it can take up to 20V into it.


yeah, some of them are putting out over 20v too. The one aston martin i have seen put out 40. crazy







naiku said:


> How does the Helix handle center processing? Since as you said, neither DSP has an upmixer so it's a waste of time anyway. I remember reading a couple threads or posts about the Helix being able to do something with a center, but it not being a true center channel due to that lack of upmixing.


The mk2 does not have upmixing. The Helix DSP Mini, BMW UP7, UP7DSP, and soon to be 12 channel dsp have it though. With my limited experience with it, it does play center information only. I have a video on FB somewhere. 






naiku said:


> Perhaps I was not clear enough, I am just talking about the difference in a Helix Pro Mk2 vs the Mini V2. Assuming your customer did not have a V2 C-DSP then sure, he likely heard a difference. I heard a difference between my C-DSP V1 and V2, but do I think I could hear the same difference between the C-DSP and the Helix Pro MK2, nope, and I doubt many could in a blind test either.


this is all hypothetical (helix vs mini v2) since its to new to tell. If you want to send yours over, id be happy to put myself and my guys through a blind test. Id think it would be similar to comparing head units. 




naiku said:


> And I would also bet you retuned your customers system when installing the Helix. Especially a recovering SPL guy going from a Mini to the Helix.


not exactly. just did a basic tune that followed the same curve with the same levels, xovers, and TA set




naiku said:


> What's your honest opinion on centers? Most people here refuse to even run rear fill, I wonder how much resources these companies are putting into features that may end up ditched in future because of limited uptake.


After hearing gary bigs car, centers are the real deal if you care about 2 seat imaging. That car sounded better than most cars but the thing was, it sounded identical from both seats. I do not think the helix can do center channels as well as the audiofrog upmixer that will eventually come out though. Two totally different animals.As far as rear fill. i like it. It adds a nice sense of space to the car. As far as ditching them in the future.. idk. I think helix made their upmixer so they can do the bmw up7 and retain the factory center. This is much more popular in their market in europe


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

PS, heres a screenshot if it means anything to you..


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> yeah, some of them are putting out over 20v too. The one aston martin i have seen put out 40. crazy


Damn 40 is nuts. I wonder what, if any, the eventual limit will be.



SkizeR said:


> this is all hypothetical (helix vs mini v2) since its to new to tell. If you want to send yours over, id be happy to put myself and my guys through a blind test. Id think it would be similar to comparing head units.


You are right, entirely hypothetical, would be a fun test to do though. Swap the Helix and Mini 2, exactly the same tune on both and try to hear any differences. 



SkizeR said:


> After hearing gary bigs car, centers are the real deal if you care about 2 seat imaging. That car sounded better than most cars but the thing was, it sounded identical from both seats. I do not think the helix can do center channels as well as the audiofrog upmixer that will eventually come out though. Two totally different animals.As far as rear fill. i like it. It adds a nice sense of space to the car.


I used to run a center channel with an MS8, liked it but being able to only run a 2" driver meant it was not worth it. I have heard the Audiofrog processor though, very impressive. Moving from driver to passenger seat it is identical, with the obvious difference being the singer would be on your right vs left. 100% with you on rear fill, it takes some tweaking to get it just right but it adds a nice sense of space. 




SkizeR said:


> not exactly. just did a basic tune that followed the same curve with the same levels, xovers, and TA set





SkizeR said:


> PS, heres a screenshot if it means anything to you..


In my experience, it does not take much of a change from one tune to the other to make a big difference. While I don't doubt the Pro MK2 being a nice step up from the Mini your guy had (assuming he did not have a C-DSP V2), I bet the tune had at least 75% to do with it. It's pretty well known that you are better than many at tuning and we both know you would not have let a customer leave with a half ass tune  Hell, if my tablet had not crapped out on me last year I would have had you tuning mine!!


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Nirvana said:


> I had assumed I would go with the Helix DSP Pro MK2 for my upcoming build. However, recent posts on the following miniDSP C-DP 8x12 thread have made me consider this alternative.
> https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...cussion/339770-new-minidsp-c-dsp-8x12-15.html
> 
> My mandatory requirements of 6 high-level analog inputs and 10 analog outputs are satisfied by either DSP. Both also have optical and coax digital inputs that I require as well as master volume remote controls.
> ...


I have one correction for you, the v2 8x12 has a 4.5 volt output, not 6.
It seems everyone has covered everything, just buy the MiniDSP 8x12 v2.
If you find you want the absolute best in the future, maybe Helix will match the sample rate and number of outputs of the Mini in the future, until then you can save up for a Helix.
You will not be disappointed with the Mini.


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## Handyman55645 (Nov 27, 2018)

Oh man did I join this forum at a good time. I'm running a C DSP 6x8 and looking at the zapco HD DSP.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Handyman55645 said:


> Oh man did I join this forum at a good time. I'm running a C DSP 6x8 and looking at the zapco HD DSP.




Just go to a helix and save yourself the headache 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Handyman55645 (Nov 27, 2018)

The new Smartphone control is something the Helix does not have. Also an on board HD audio player supporting 2tb HDD plus BT and high-res wifi. I would not need a HU. No more RCA vs Optical issues. All controlled from a smart device. I don't believe the Helix has a compressor either.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Handyman55645 said:


> The new Smartphone control is something the Helix does not have. Also an on board HD audio player supporting 2tb HDD plus BT and high-res wifi. I would not need a HU. No more RCA vs Optical issues. All controlled from a smart device. I don't believe the Helix has a compressor either.


Be the Guinea pig for us 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Handyman55645 (Nov 27, 2018)

I just might do it. Opical has been a big deal for me and after the flagship HU start to no longer offer it it's something that is hard to find. But if I can get rid of a HU all together then why not. Hell I can run SPDIF from my tablet to my miniDSP now and not use a HU. What I do NOT like is the remote for the miniDSP. Only lets me chose 4 presets. I normally have 20 presets for my system.


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## Asmithey (Jan 15, 2021)

What tuning software does the Mini use? I am looking at the non DL version of the mini. Can the software be downloaded to check out prior to purchasing the mini 8x12 c-dsp v 2.0?


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## lithium (Oct 29, 2008)

3 year old thread.. Just go to minidsp website, support tab, click user downloads and follow the links..


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## solo8788 (Feb 12, 2021)

Not officially, but if you where to get the software it does function without needing to be connected to the hardware (offline mode). Also, user download section only gives you access to items you have purchased.


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## Asmithey (Jan 15, 2021)

solo8788 said:


> Not officially, but if you where to get the software it does function without needing to be connected to the hardware (offline mode). Also, user download section only gives you access to items you have purchased.


Thanks. Basically what I want to know, you don't need Dirac Live to tune your system with the Mini 8x12, correct? There is another basic software it comes with, correct?


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## solo8788 (Feb 12, 2021)

Correct, they have a plugin for the regular 8x12 and a different one for the 8x12 Dirac. Also, you can start with the basic 8x12 and later upgrade to dirac version.


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## doeboy (May 2, 2012)

You can email them and they will allow your account to download the software without actually owning the product.


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## Asmithey (Jan 15, 2021)

doeboy said:


> You can email them and they will allow your account to download the software without actually owning the product.


Thank you for the info.


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## Asmithey (Jan 15, 2021)

solo8788 said:


> Correct, they have a plugin for the regular 8x12 and a different one for the 8x12 Dirac. Also, you can start with the basic 8x12 and later upgrade to dirac version.


Thank you for the info!!


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