# IBox from Focal: New WiFi interface



## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings All!!

As everyone has been interested in the Mosconi 6 to 8 and I have been busy with that side of Orca I neglected to mention a product that Focal is bringing out right now. 

Its called the IBox and it is very cool piece of hardware! For years I have been bitching about how poor IPhones or IPads or I whatever sound because of compression and piss poor DAC's. Not anymore!!!!

Focal has brought to the table a unit that is called the IBox. It uses WIFi technology so you may be able to stream from your IPhone or IPad via WIFi to this unit all of your music stored on the respective devices! Now, here is the really cool part about this piece: It does it with over 100 KHZ of bandwidth and it has two 24bit/96Khz DAC's in it! So, if you download music to your IPhone or Ipad with Apple Lossless you are going to be able to hear your music at a higher resolution that can exceed CD quality! 

This piece has an analog output and a digital output! All you need is some form of preamp or Aux input and you have access to the units capability! I used this at CES in the Focal booth and the Illusion booth and we did direct comparisons with a CD and a downloaded copy to an IPhone. Everyone agreed that the IPhone recording was better! Yes, I did cheat a little, I downloaded a High resoultion recording of Diana Krall's "Live in Paris' Album, but the matter that we could stream via WiFi my IPhone and get better than CD quailty sound gives me hope that we may have turned the corner in being able to get a way better sound out of our downloads! 

If you have a digital input on any source unit of processor, ( Mosconi 6 to 8), then you can get a direct digital signal transfer and my understanding is this unit will Up-sample to 24/96 every recording!! Hallelujah!!! Now were getting somewhere close to what the high-end home folks are enjoying!!!

You do not have to download any type of app for this. Each unit has its own WiFi address and password. All you have to do is hook up power and ground and you are good to go! Your IPhone or IPad will see the unit once you initiate WiFi. You will see the address and once you click on that it will ask you for a password. Type that in and you are set to go. Hit play on your Music selection and that is all there is to it!!!

The unit is not inexpensive, its going to retail for $999.00. This level of technology and getting it in a small housing was not easy. Focal has a home version that I was told at CES retails for $3000.00. We in 12volt are getting a bargain. But considering what a lot of us are having to spend to get decent sounding systems, this could be the ultimate answer for a lot of us! We can make our IPads our head units. I intend to do so! Im going to replace the head unit in my Challenger with an IPad and use it instead! Pretty simple really! Once the 6 to 8 is installed, I will not need to run RCA's to the 6 to 8. All I need is to turn on the IPad and the IBox will send out the WiFi signal and the IPad will see it and thats that! One Toslink cable from the IBox to the 6 to 8 and we are done! No noise to worry about, maximum signal transfer and hundreds of songs to choose from with CD resolution or better!! 


Sounds like the future to me!!!

If you have any questions on the IBox please let me know. Ill do my best to get the answers for you!


Nick Wingate Jr
National Training Coodinator
Focal America/Mosconi/Audio Systems/ Illusion Audio America


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

Wow, that's very interesting. Thanks for sharing.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Nick...been meaning to shoot you a PM sir.


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## vapor77 (Mar 12, 2011)

This sounds very interesting, looking forward too more info.
Release dates in North America?


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings All!

The release date is now! We have a few in stock at Orca and more on the way.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Love the idea...wish the price was better.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Mitsu1grn said:


> Focal has brought to the table a unit that is called the IBox. It uses WIFi technology so you may be able to stream from your IPhone or IPad via WIFi to this unit all of your music stored on the respective devices! Now, here is the really cool part about this piece: It does it with over 100 KHZ of bandwidth and it has two 24bit/96Khz DAC's in it! *So, if you download music to your IPhone or Ipad with Apple Lossless you are going to be able to hear your music at a higher resolution that can exceed CD quality!*
> 
> This piece has an analog output and a digital output! All you need is some form of preamp or Aux input and you have access to the units capability! * I used this at CES in the Focal booth and the Illusion booth and we did direct comparisons with a CD and a downloaded copy to an IPhone. Everyone agreed that the IPhone recording was better! Yes, I did cheat a little, I downloaded a High resoultion recording of Diana Krall's "Live in Paris' Album, but the matter that we could stream via WiFi my IPhone and get better than CD quailty sound* gives me hope that we may have turned the corner in being able to get a way better sound out of our downloads!
> 
> ...


How did you upload Dianna Krall's high resolution album onto an iDevice? My understanding is that nothing over 48kHz is supported.

Also, do you know if you loose 3G functionality on apps that default to wifi once connected to wifi network (ie maps, weather, MOG, Pandora, etc), when the iphone interfaces with the iBox? Or is it a smart wifi connection that only trigger wifi for the iPod app? 

And is this like AirPlay where you have to switch over to it every time you come within range? Or does it do it all auto and is as you say as simple as pressing play?


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

t3sn4f2 said:


> How did you upload Dianna Krall's high resolution album onto an iDevice? My understanding is that nothing over 48kHz is supported.
> 
> Also, do you know if you loose 3G functionality on apps that default to wifi once connected to wifi network (ie maps, weather, MOG, Pandora, etc), when the iphone interfaces with the iBox? Or is it a smart wifi connection that only trigger wifi for the iPod app?
> 
> And is this like AirPlay where you have to switch over to it every time you come within range? Or does it do it all auto and is as you say as simple as pressing play?



These are some of the questions I had once I did some research after seeing/hearing the box in action. I know a normal iphone will not allow high resolution files to be transferred to the device.

I asked the iStreamer guy why they didn't have one and he claimed it's impossible. lol. I also asked, well, how about just a digital out, and to that he said, it wouldn't work...jitter.

So, someone please correct whatever is missing or miss information. I think this will be an awesome device for those looking for SQ and and iPad install!


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

t3sn4f2 said:


> How did you upload Dianna Krall's high resolution album onto an iDevice? My understanding is that nothing over 48kHz is supported.
> 
> Also, do you know if you loose 3G functionality on apps that default to wifi once connected to wifi network (ie maps, weather, MOG, Pandora, etc), when the iphone interfaces with the iBox? Or is it a smart wifi connection that only trigger wifi for the iPod app?
> 
> And is this like AirPlay where you have to switch over to it every time you come within range? Or does it do it all auto and is as you say as simple as pressing play?


Same questions here.

Nick, since this unit is released now, do you have a link to the product page with specs and/or a PDF you can post?

And I have hard time shelling out money on these types of products when they cost more than the iDevice itself.

Slightly OT & FYI: The iPad 3 hardware has been finalized since the week before Christmas. Expect it to be in our hands very soon.


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!!!

There are programs out there that will allow you to download a high res file directly to your computer and then allow you to store it on your Idevice. These files are better than 16/44Khz. There are programs available which will actually allow you to take the direct DSD signal off of a SACD and store it directly to a hard drive. Then, once you have this, there are now servers available which will allow you to store those files on their hard drive and via a digital output go to one of the new DAC's that have the Sabre DAC with 32bit/384Khz resolution which will allow you to hear what amounts to a true analog wave formation instead of a digital jitter induced signal.

I actually used one of these at the 2010 RMAF in Denver Colorado when we debuted the Raven Ebb speakers. This was a truly enlightening experience! Way beyond CD quality sound, more like Vinyl sound with SACD extreme resolution! That began my trek to find higher resolution files that could be downloaded to my computer/server and my IPhone. 

Once you have the program, you will be able to play the files back via the program! Now, as to how the download on my phone came about is this. There are SACD's that have dual layers on them. One is SACD one is red book CD. Well I tried to burn the SACD side to my computer and was successful. When I downloaded one track to my IPhone, it worked! Now, I actually thought I was listening to the standard red book CD track in lossless, but when i played that track through the IBox, it was so much better than the standard red book CD, I decided to do a side by side comparison or back to back if you will. IBOX version through my IPhone was substantially better than CD! So, given that was the case I tried another musical selection just to confirm my suspicions. I have a copy of Dire Straits " Brothers in Arms" from the JVC XRCDII catalog. The best standard recording you can get. I listened to 'Money for Nothing' on the CD and through my phone on the IBOX. Yep, there was a difference, the CD had slightly better depth and three dimensionality, but not by much. My conclusion was that the file that i had on my iPhone of Diana Krall had to be the higher resolution form. It was so much better than the standard CD that it was the only conclusion that I could come up with. 

As soon as my IBOX gets to me, I am going to place it in my home system and see just how much better my system sounds through my IPhone. I do not expect it to sound like 32/384 resolution nor do I expect it to sound better than my server. However, given my experience so far with the unit and given the digital output that is on the unit and that it is supposed to upsample everything over the digital output to 24/96, I intend to confirm this. My suspicions is that this unit is up-sampling everything whether it is using the analog outputs or the digital outputs. Ill let everyone know as soon as I get mine in.

Nick


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Ok, on how the unit interfaces to a IPad or I phone is like this. Once your IPad or IPhone sees the WiFi broadcast it will ask for a password. Once you have entered your password, your unit and phone will auto synk each and everytime they get within 150 feet of each other. All you have to do is enable the music on your I Device and your music is streaming. 

Now, if your phone rings, the music is paused and the phone switches so you may answer it. The phone conversation will not pass through to the WiFI side. If you are bluetooth enabled it will switchover automatically.

If you are using WiFi for music streaming it will take up all of the bandwidth and it is the only thing you may use. You may not do anything else at the same time. As I have not experienced this, I dont know for a fact that this will work, but given that my phone was receiving a 3G signal the entire time I was using the unit with my phone, I would conclude that any 3G functions or apps are going to continue to work.

Nick


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Ah I see, "Flac Player"


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

Nick,

I'd like to know what programs you are using that allow you to transfer the music to your idevice and play in itunes. Unless, correct me if I am wrong, I thought I heard you say at CES you were using the normal audio player on the iphone in the Focal, and ipad in the Mosconi/Illusion Audio room(s).

I do have "flac player", but the interface with itunes and my playlists won't be the same.

I do already have about 130gb of 96/24, just need to know how to play it with itunes on my idevices. 

Thanks!
JT










Mitsu1grn said:


> Ok, on how the unit interfaces to a IPad or I phone is like this. Once your IPad or IPhone sees the WiFi broadcast it will ask for a password. Once you have entered your password, your unit and phone will auto synk each and everytime they get within 150 feet of each other. All you have to do is enable the music on your I Device and your music is streaming.
> 
> Now, if your phone rings, the music is paused and the phone switches so you may answer it. The phone conversation will not pass through to the WiFI side. If you are bluetooth enabled it will switchover automatically.
> 
> ...


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

What I did on my IPhone was download a high res SACD copy of the song onto my IPhone. I thought it was the red book copy, but upon hearing it, I was doubtful that I was listening to a standard red book recording. I still don't. What gets me about this is that when the IBox interfaces with my phone the recordings sound better!!! Whether its red book or not. 

The recording fo the Diana Krall I played at CES is a high res recording. I am convinced that it is not a standard red book recording that was downloaded to my IPhone. My belief is that the IBox is bringing our just how good that recording is and that our IPhones or IPads are capable of a whole lot more than we have been led to believe. THe IBox seems to prove this. As I stated above, as soon as I get my unit in house, I will be testing it over my computer to see just how good a playback medium it can be. 

As of today, I can say with absolute certainty that with it in your system, it makes playback of any recording on your IPhone/IPad sound amazing!


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Following the request for the best program to have for high res downloads there are a number of them available but I personally think that AMARRA is the Mercedes/Benz of programs. Upgradeable and easy to use. Will support 32/384 and will automatically convert Flac to AIFF. It is not inexpensive. 495.00 US gets you started and you can go from there.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

Here's something specific I'd like to know. How, or what program, did you use so that the iphone's native music player can see and play a 24bit96khz file?

If you try to transfer using iTunes, it automatically cancels it and says the iphone cannot play this type of file.

I'm sure I can use "flac player" and transfer the files over data, but the native player will not play these files. so, it makes navigating your music not as smooth as the iphone, ipad, etc. would normally do.

if anyone has that answer, please enlighten me. 

thanks!

JT


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Hey Nick,

You mention in your OP that the iBox contains two 24bit/96Khz DACs. Can you tell us what two DAC chips Focal is using?

Have a Web Link to the product page?


Here's what a Google search for "iBox" came up with:

Thodio iBox - iPod/iPhone exquisite wood Boom Box
thodio » exclusive audio » products

W2IHY iBox - Ham/Amateur Radio audio interface
W2IHY iBox

Will there be any Trademark/Copyright issues using the "iBox" name due to these devices already existing in the marketplace?

I'd like to try an iBox. Can I order an iBox from you or Orca now?

It's best to contact me via email: bbfoto AT hotmail DOT com


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Crickets...?


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

JT, its impossible to get high res with the native player. so you're investment into listening at those sample rates has just gone up 

I like the unit Nick. Definitely on the right track. I too, will be going to an Ipad2 in my truck for music and a whole lot more (netflix, vudu, internet, slingbox)


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

BigRed said:


> JT, its impossible to get high res with the native player. so you're investment into listening at those sample rates has just gone up
> 
> I like the unit Nick. Definitely on the right track. I too, will be going to an Ipad2 in my truck for music and a whole lot more (netflix, vudu, internet, slingbox)


Hey Jim, can you explain HOW to load and play Hi-Res files on the iPod/iPhone/iPad with the native player???

And when I refer to "Hi-Res", I'm referring to 24-bit files, with a minimum of 88.2kHz to 192kHz.

Also, you might want to wait for the iPad 3. A little bird told me it's coming very soon.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

U can't run high res with the native player. U have to purchase software


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

bbfoto said:


> Hey Jim, can you explain HOW to load and play Hi-Res files on the iPod/iPhone/iPad with the native player???
> 
> And when I refer to "Hi-Res", I'm referring to 24-bit files, with a minimum of 88.2kHz to 192kHz.
> 
> Also, you might want to wait for the iPad 3. A little bird told me it's coming very soon.


here's what I understand, you buy "flac player" load them on to your phone through itunes, but you need to load files through the app. there's instructions somewhere, it's easy. then they will play through the native player.

now, how they get out of the iphone/ipad and at what resolution i'm not 100% sure.

btw, bbfoto, feel free to send me those ad shots for the ipad 3, so i know what i'm getting when it comes out. lol.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

jtaudioacc said:


> here's what I understand, you buy "flac player" load them on to your phone through itunes, but you need to load files through the app. there's instructions somewhere, it's easy. then they will play through the native player.
> 
> *now, how they get out of the iphone/ipad and at what resolution i'm not 100% sure.*
> btw, bbfoto, feel free to send me those ad shots for the ipad 3, so i know what i'm getting when it comes out. lol.


iPad Streams High-Resolution Audio to DAC1 | Benchmark Interaction


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

DOH! Jim, sorry mang, I misread your initial post! For some reason I thought you typed "POSSIBLE" instead of "IMPOSSIBLE". Whew, I guess that's just what I wanted to read and didn't realize it until you quoted me. :/

jt, thanks for the 'FLAC Player' tutorial...got it! I have the Logitech Squeezebox Touch and Transporter, and both will stream my 24/192 files from my home server to these players via WiFi so it definitely IS possible, but you are limited to playing them through the proprietary Squeezebox player software, which actually isn't too bad, but could be better.

I've got the SB Touch in one of my vehicles now with the digital optical out going to my DEQ-P9. You have to keep the DEX-P9 HU in the mix to control the processor via the Pioneer iP-Bus cable, but this works for me because I wanted to keep the AM/FM/CD functionality in the car anyway. It's still not ideal as you have to have two source devices and manually switch the optical Toslink outputs with a mechanical rotary Toslink optical switch.  I'm hoping to try this setup with the new Mosconi or Helix processor soon.

My 5.3" 1280x800 display Samsung Galaxy Note phablet is a single source and you can choose from a plethora of Android music & video player apps, but it's a rats nest of wiring, adapters, and interfaces in order to make it work. The Galaxy Note also has an FM tuner built-in so you've got that plus the music/video, NAV/GPS, Internet, Voice Text and Email, WiFi Hotspot, and hands-free phone, etc.

And sorry, but mums the word for now regarding the iPad 3...really don't want the Apple police showing up at my door! You will be surprised however. 

And thanks for the link to the DAC1, tn.


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## twocupsofbutter (Apr 20, 2009)

Nick


Do you have any pics of this ?

Do you know the measurements ?


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!

The unit is about the size of an Iphone. Its thicker, ( 2 inches). Room for two RCA output jacks and one Toslink output. Thats it!


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

YouTube Video:

Nick (in conjunction with Pacific Stereo) shows off some of Focal's new products for 2012 at CES, including the Focal iBox...

Focal @ CES 2012 | Pacific Stereo - YouTube


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

bbfoto said:


> YouTube Video:
> 
> Nick (in conjunction with Pacific Stereo) shows off some of Focal's new products for 2012 at CES, including the Focal iBox...
> 
> Focal @ CES 2012 | Pacific Stereo - YouTube


Thanks for the vid.

I wonder what the final product will look like if it ever goes into production.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

No problem. 

I'm not too concerned with what it will look like as long as it doesn't grow too much in size. It would be hidden away in my install.

I'll just say right now that this device is dead in the water from the start if the MSRP is $999. That's just not going to fly IMO... it shouldn't cost more than the iDevices it supports, especially an iPad. 

My Squeezebox Touch is about the same size, has WiFi, a 4.3" LCD touchscreen, a surprisingly amazing 24/192 DAC with toslink optical + coaxial outputs, redbook standard 2v RCA analog outputs, and IR remote for under $300. IOW the SB Touch's high-quality components match (and exceed) the list of components in the iBox, and at a much lower price. And both have software and associated development costs to factor in as well.

I'd imagine that manufacturing costs/economies of scale/sales volume would be much different between the two, but I just don't see too many of these things flying off the shelves at ~$999.

Still, I WANT one NOW!


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Thanks for the vid.
> 
> I wonder what the final product will look like if it ever goes into production.


As I understood it, that is what the finished product will look like. I thought I remember Nick saying that in the suite and something like 5 were available? Please correct me if I'm wrong, Nick.

Also, there are still many that claim idevices are incapable of transferring the high resolution files. Hardware is said to be the issue, even though digital out is available.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

jtaudioacc said:


> As I understood it, that is what the finished product will look like. I thought I remember Nick saying that in the suite and something like 5 were available? Please correct me if I'm wrong, Nick.
> 
> *Also, there are still many that claim idevices are incapable of transferring the high resolution files. Hardware is said to be the issue, even though digital out is available*.


What do you mean by hardware specifically?


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

t3sn4f2 said:


> What do you mean by hardware specifically?


I've just been told the idevices have hardware limitations that won't allow 24bit 96khz files to be transferred. only 16bit 48khz max. so, high resolution files might be able to be played with flac player, but won't be transmitted digitally at 24 but 96khz.

i'm not saying i'm right or wrong, just what I've heard and read from more than a few people.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

jtaudioacc said:


> I've just been told the idevices have hardware limitations that won't allow 24bit 96khz files to be transferred. only 16bit 48khz max. so, high resolution files might be able to be played with flac player, but won't be transmitted digitally at 24 but 96khz.
> 
> i'm not saying i'm right or wrong, just what I've heard and read from more than a few people.


Those people are just plain wrong, as you can see from the link I provided earlier.

iPad Streams High-Resolution Audio to DAC1 | Benchmark Interaction

"









To demonstrate that the stream was not being down-sampled, we used a 30 kHz audio test tone (-5 dBFS amplitude, 96-kHz sample rate, 24-bit resolution). If the iPad was down-sampling to 48 kHz, the cutoff *(Nyquist)* frequency would drop to 24 kHz. In this case, the 30 kHz tone would disappear. Our tests show that the 30 kHz tone is properly reproduced.

Nyquist rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per the theorem about, a 48kHz sample rate can only play up to 24kHz (48kHz/2). Yet the test show a clean tone all the way up to 30kHz.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

sorry, t3sn4f2. forgot you posted that. i think it was just that i was told again, it couldn't work that i asked.

it makes sense to me, that if you can get the files on the idevice, that it could be sent in the digital domain and still be intact.

now to go against the whole resolution issue we are talking about, i'm wondering if you can use wifi to connect to the ibox, and still have your cellular data connection? as to use pandora, sirius or other internet radio stations with the ibox.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

JT,

I believe it WILL be able to utilize your iDevice's 3G/4G cellular data connection while connected via WiFi to the iBox. But the WiFi connection between the two idevices will be pretty much exclusive, meaning your iDevice will not be able to connect to another WiFi hotspot at the same time for your data for pandora, email, Internet, etc. It basically operates using a "WiFi Direct" -type protocol which many Samsung devices have, such as their newer HDTVs, Smartphones, and Galaxy Tablets. It's similar to using a Bluetooth connection.


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!!

Someone is asking about the finished product and what it will look like. If you go look at the Pacific Stereo Video and look, you will see the product. That is what it will look like. Our understanding is this is it. No changes to be made other than a Focal logo on it.

Nick


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings Again!

To answer another question, No, you cannot access any other WiFi functions of the phone once the connection with the Ibox is established. If you get a call, the streaming is paused and you can answer your phone. That happened to me at CES. 

Nick


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Mitsu1grn said:


> Greetings Again!
> 
> To answer another question, No, you cannot access any other WiFi functions of the phone once the connection with the Ibox is established. If you get a call, the streaming is paused and you can answer your phone. That happened to me at CES.
> 
> Nick


But can you access any other data service like 3g simultaneously or even at all once the wifi connection to the iBox is established?

(Can't find the iBox on Pacific. )


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

bbfoto said:


> JT,
> 
> I believe it WILL be able to utilize your iDevice's 3G/4G cellular data connection while connected via WiFi to the iBox. But the WiFi connection between the two idevices will be pretty much exclusive, meaning your iDevice will not be able to connect to another WiFi hotspot at the same time for your data for pandora, email, Internet, etc. It basically operates using a "WiFi Direct" -type protocol which many Samsung devices have, such as their newer HDTVs, Smartphones, and Galaxy Tablets. It's similar to using a Bluetooth connection.


I hope you can still use the data part of the 3G connection. I understand the phone call part of it still using the 3G, but I hope it will still use 3G for the rest of the data apps and not rely on wifi, which won't be available.


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings again!


I dont know if you will be able to access anything over the 3G network or not. I will inquire with Focal tonight and should have an answer for you tomorrow.

the IBox is not available yet, that is why you cannot find it on Pacific Stereo. You can see it on the link to the video in a post that was made earlier in this thread and see what it looks like. I shall inquire with Focal about a release date and hopefully I will have an answer on that as well tomorrow.

Nick


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

the most you can get out of itunes is 16/48. end of story.

I dont care what other mfgr's claim or a graph by that mfgr.

As Nick pointed out, you can use other programs to get more, but not itunes.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

BigRed said:


> the most you can get out of itunes is 16/48. end of story.
> 
> I dont care what other mfgr's claim or a graph by that mfgr.
> 
> As Nick pointed out, you can use other programs to get more, but not itunes.


Who said anything about iTunes?


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

I think it's ability to use multiple programs will be awesome!! The majority of my library is in iTunes. But it will be nice to open a different app and play some high res stuff.


Sent from my iPhone


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

The mfgr link u posted did . I found another company that claims 24/192 thru iTunes. Its called the Ihoax. Lol


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

BigRed said:


> The mfgr link u posted did . I found another company that claims 24/192 thru iTunes. Its called the Ihoax. Lol


hhmm well to be fair, they never mention loading up high rez files in the tradition way you load files from itunes and neither did anyone else. They only mention streaming high rez via home sharing. Which we have to assume flac player will work just the same except through a native program input instead of a wifi stream.

But anyways, thanks for catching that. I completely missed the first time around.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

And guys, I am 99.9% sure that your iDevice will be able to use its native 3G/4G cellular data while connected to the iBox via WiFi, but we'll wait for the final word from Focal. My Samsung 3G/4G devices work this way when connected to each other via "WiFi Direct" and I believe the Kivic One works this way as well. Again, it's my understanding that this works just like a Bluetooth connection on your cellular phone...your phone still can use its 3G/4G data, at least on GSM networks (AT&T and T-Mobile)...not sure about CDMA networks (Verizon & Sprint). e.g. You can't use the 3G/4G data connection to surf the web on Verizon smartphones while you are on a voice call. Supposedly this is changing in 2013 when Verizon implements a new CDMA Protocol.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> hhmm well to be fair, they never mention loading up high rez files in the tradition way you load files from itunes and neither did anyone else. They only mention streaming high rez via home sharing. Which we have to assume flac player will work just the same except through a native program input instead of a wifi stream.
> 
> But anyways, thanks for catching that. I completely missed the first time around.


 I wasn't trying to bust your balls about it, I just think its only fair to mention it. Their press release is a little misleading  I am eventually going to be running an ipad with an istreamer.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

BigRed said:


> the most you can get out of _*itunes*_ is 16/48. end of story.
> 
> I dont care what other mfgr's claim or a graph by that mfgr.
> 
> As Nick pointed out, you can use other programs to get more, but not itunes.


Not perfect, but Another Option:

For anyone that is already using an iPad as the main source unit in their install, or anyone who plans to use one, here is another option.

Use the "SqueezePad" iPad app to REMOTELY CONTROL the Logitech Squeezebox Touch. IMO, it's a beautiful, well-designed interface. Check it out:

Squeezebox + iPad = SqueezePad


Other than your standard install, this will require three things to work:

1. The iPad 1 or iPad 2 with the $10 SqueezePad app.

2. The SqueezeBox Touch (can be hidden away in your install near your amps/processor)

3. A WiFi connection for the iPad to communicate with the SqueezeBox Touch.


Take a look at the YouTube videos that are linked to on the SqueezePad web site link above, and read the entire home page, including "Other Stuff" near the bottom of the page for all of the interesting options. 

The app developer has also made a similar app for Android called, "SqueezePlayer".

This setup will allow you to play Apple Lossless, FLAC, WAV, MP3s and much more at up to 24-bit/192khz. The Squeezebox Touch is confirmed to have a very good DAC, especially for its price point. (And assuming you have a WiFi connection or hotspot and you also like to stream Lo-Res, did I mention that the SB Touch can access a bazillion Internet Radio Stations, Spotify, Pandora, LastFm, etc?)

Back to the setup: You would connect a USB HDD or SSD with all of your media files directly to the SB Touch (I'm using a Samsung 830 256GB SSD). Or you can use a network Media Server with a large internal HDD or SSD, such as the Synology Network Attached Storage - DS111 Products .

The SB Touch can be hidden away in your install, but you would connect it to your amplifiers or processor via its RCA 2V Analog outputs, digital coaxial outputs, or Toslink optical outputs. This is what allows you to output up to 24/192 while still using the iDevice you already have. Basically, you will be using the iPad as the touchscreen GUI/Remote control for the SB Touch.

The PowerStream PST-DC292 12V DC-DC Converter works great to power the SB Touch and/or the DS111 media server (one for each). I'm sure there are others that would work equally well, but here's a link to the PowerStream unit: 12 volt power supply catalog.


FYI, my original thread about the SB Touch is here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-pc-forum/62571-carpc-new-logitech-squeezebox-touch-wireless-digital-usb-inputs.html

As a side note, some users on the SqueezeBox Forums have also been able to successfully connect an outboard USB DAC to the USB port on the SB Touch. There are developers working further on this.

Still, the Focal iBox would be a MUCH simpler solution, especially if you already have and love your iDevices, but you would have to calculate the difference in cost of implementing each setup, and you would still have to use the FLAC PLAYER app in order to use files above 16-bit/44.1-48kHz resolution.

Even if you could output 24/192 from your source, is it a moot point? In order to truly take advantage of using Hi-Res files as your source, you would also need to have a Processor that supports Hi-Res processing. IOW, all DSP is done internally at => 24/192 from input to output, without down-sampling before or after processing.

AFAIK, there are only a few "common" processors that do this...the Alpine F1 PXA-H900, the Behringer processors, and the dbx DriveRack processors. All others do their signal processing at 16/44.1-48. Anybody feel free to correct me if I am wrong...it sure wouldn't be the first time.

Sorry to muddy up the thread, but I feel it's good to suggest and explore all other options for the sake of comparison and education on these subjects. Compare and contrast, if you will. If there is another possible way to achieve _x_ result, I want to know about it, even if it may be complex or costly.


So back to the iBox...

Nick, any word yet regarding Focal iBox price & release date, and the "3G data while on WiFi" questions we have?


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## Mitsu1grn (Sep 22, 2008)

Greetings!

As soon as i get the answer from Focal on the availability and 3G Data while on WiFi Ill post it here.

Nick


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

bbfoto said:


> Not perfect, but Another Option:
> 
> For anyone that is already using an iPad as the main source unit in their install, or anyone who plans to use one, here is another option.
> 
> Use the "SqueezePad" iPad app to REMOTELY CONTROL the Logitech Squeezebox Touch. IMO, it's a beautiful, well-designed interface. Check it out:


If I didn't find the Squeezebox Touch to be so buggy, it would be a great unit to use. 

I've had problems with it recognizing hard drives and sd cards. And when it does recognize them, it takes too long to scan the library at times. That, and the fact that every time you turn off the ignition, the SBTouch has to restart and do it all again...

Not sure I'd want to use both an iPad and SBTouch anyway. I would probably pick one or the other.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

rain27 said:


> If I didn't find the Squeezebox Touch to be so buggy, it would be a great unit to use.
> 
> I've had problems with it recognizing hard drives and sd cards. And when it does recognize them, it takes too long to scan the library at times. That, and the fact that every time you turn off the ignition, the SBTouch has to restart and do it all again...
> 
> Not sure I'd want to use both an iPad and SBTouch anyway. I would probably pick one or the other.


True. I can fully understand that. It definitely isn't perfect. The SBTouch would definitely benefit from an update to a faster internal CPU/system bus/USB 3.0 or eSATA. I use a Samsung 256gb SSD, and since this is installed in a daily driver, I usually keep the power supplied to the back of the SBT on continuously without having to worry too much about battery drain. Therefor no SD or HDD re-scan.

The software version I'm using has been pretty stable and scans quite a bit faster than other versions I've used. I'm out of town at the moment or I would check SW version info for you.

And fyi, I _heard somewhere_ that the iPad 3 _might_ not have the 30-pin dock connector, so the iBox would probably be the best solution.


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

I got a chance to demo one of Focal car with the ibox installed in SBN. I was very impress with the SQ, seriously thinking about getting one.


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

Bump from the dead.....

Anyone try this yet?


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## d5sc (Aug 14, 2007)

danno14 said:


> Bump from the dead.....
> 
> Anyone try this yet?


I visited Sound Innovations yesterday in order to check on the progress of the installation in my Nissan Altima, and they happened to be installing a Focal IBox in a customer's 2012 Toyota Prius. 

According to the shop owner, Ernie, the customer's iPhone was going to be the primary source unit and will be also using the factory stereo/head unit. The system in the Toyota is going to be in all digital configuration (except when using the factory H/U) and consists of the following equipment:

- Focal IBox
- Audison Bit One
- Audison Voce amps
- Front: Focal mid/tweet components (not sure of the model/line?)
- Rear Fill: Focal (not sure if they were components or coaxes nor the model/line?)
- Focal sub and pre-made enclosure: for testing purposes and was not hooked up; will be eventually replaced with an Audison Voce sub

When I was there yesterday, Ernie, the shop owner, said the system was not tuned yet (EQ-wise), however, base-level/rudimentary crossover points and time-alignment were set up for testing purposes. Ernie was trying to figure out where to place the Focal tweeters based on some listening tests. The mids and tweets were running and the Focal sub was not.

As this was one of their first Focal IBox installs, Ernie was A/B'ing the IBox by switching between the analog signal output from (A) the iPhone into the Audison Bit One and (B) the digital output (WiFi interface) from the iPhone into the iBox which then ran into the Audison Bit One. Ernie asked me to take a listen to both to see what I thought... 

*Note: unfortunately, my ears are not the best compared to many on this forum and this was a very brief A/B test. The source material, Norah Jones, which I have listened to before, was coming from an iPhone 4 and I am not sure which music file format it was in. However, Ernie and I were able to discern some things when/from listening to both configurations:

- there was a very slight noise floor when using the analog outputs of the iPhone; this was not noticeable when using the IBox
- the image placement (vocals and instruments) changed when switching between the two configurations
- stage height and depth did not appear to change when switching between both configurations
- when using the IBox, Norah Jones's vocals and the instruments sounded richer and more life-like whereas the analog configuration sounded a bit thin and lacked some realism and detail (i.e., pluck and reverb of the piano strings afterwards; Norah's voice has a particular tonal signature in certain passages)

After several A/B tests, Ernie and I both agreed that we did hear a distinct, noticeable difference, based on the above, between the two configurations, and we both concluded that using the iPhone with the IBox as the source unit was the preferred choice (based on the source music we were listening to and *our* ears).

Please note the retail cost of the Focal IBox is in the neighborhood of $900-$1,000. The price alone will be cost-prohibitive for many and I am not going to debate whether or not it is worth it in this regard as people have different opinions, budgets, and installation needs.

Hope this helps a little...


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

I'm guessing you were just using a cheapo dock-RCA connector for analog? Also, did you happen to see or check if when, using the ibox, you can still receive data for say, Pandora? I'm concerned with that ability, especially if you are using iTunes Match, that once the iBox is using wifi, the ipad/iphone will not allow data to come through. I know text messages usually still work, but i'm interested in data apps, since the wifi connection is being used for the iBox.

For analog, the HRT iStreamer sounds fantastic, imo. 





d5sc said:


> I visited Sound Innovations yesterday in order to check on the progress of the installation in my Nissan Altima, and they happened to be installing a Focal IBox in a customer's 2012 Toyota Prius.
> 
> According to the shop owner, Ernie, the customer's iPhone was going to be the primary source unit and will be also using the factory stereo/head unit. The system in the Toyota is going to be in all digital configuration (except when using the factory H/U) and consists of the following equipment:
> 
> ...


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## d5sc (Aug 14, 2007)

jtaudioacc said:


> I'm guessing you were just using a cheapo dock-RCA connector for analog? Also, did you happen to see or check if when, using the ibox, you can still receive data for say, Pandora? I'm concerned with that ability, especially if you are using iTunes Match, that once the iBox is using wifi, the ipad/iphone will not allow data to come through. I know text messages usually still work, but i'm interested in data apps, since the wifi connection is being used for the iBox.
> 
> For analog, the HRT iStreamer sounds fantastic, imo.


John,

When I was there, Ernie was only using the iPhone as the source unit and iBox for testing purposes to set up tweeter placement and in order to get the installation completed. 

Unfortunately, the installation is already behind schedule (due to some unforeseen technical difficulties), so I don't think the shop will be able to test for the various scenarios that you had asked about (above) as the customer is expecting the car back soon.

Perhaps Nick Wingate (Mitsu1grn) will chime in as I imagine he and Focal may have come across the scenarios/what-ifs you had described from various customer inquiries thus far or may be able to test for them. 

Also, I am not sure what type of RCA interconnects or dock was being used as I was not specifically paying attention to that nor did Ernie mention that to me (other than it being analog).


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

I don't get it, why would they use a $1000 device that can only interface to the bitone via analog when you can spend $100 and have an S/PDIF Toslink/Coax out for the bitone's digital input. 

I know its not a wireless transmission, but who isn't oing to plug the iphone in to charge while playing anyways. Might as well pull the digital stream out the same dock connection while you are at it and save some heat on the wifi antenna.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

you know what, t3sn4f2's post just reminded me, the iBox has both analog and digital, duh. 

so, i'm sure he was showing you the difference between the two on the iBox.






d5sc said:


> John,
> 
> When I was there, Ernie was only using the iPhone as the source unit and iBox for testing purposes to set up tweeter placement and in order to get the installation completed.
> 
> ...


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

jtaudioacc said:


> you know what, t3sn4f2's post just reminded me, the iBox has both analog and digital, duh.
> 
> so, i'm sure he was showing you the difference between the two on the iBox.


Forgot it had digital out also, thanks. Still the wrong tool for the preferred job though.


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## d5sc (Aug 14, 2007)

jtaudioacc said:


> you know what, t3sn4f2's post just reminded me, the iBox has both analog and digital, duh.
> 
> so, i'm sure he was showing you the difference between the two on the iBox.


John,

He was *not* using the analog outputs from the IBox, only the *WiFi* interface/connection from iPhone > to the IBox > which was then connected via optical to the Bit One.

The iPhone was also wired separately into the BitOne using an analog connection.

The Big Question was how it would sound between using the IBox's WiFi interface using an optical connection to the BitOne vs. connecting the iPhone via an analog connection (directly) to the BitOne.

Hope this makes a little more sense...


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

oic, there would probably be less difference with the ibox analog input. which is the main reason for the box, the upgraded d/a, then, the wireless function.






d5sc said:


> John,
> 
> He was *not* using the analog outputs from the IBox, only the *WiFi* interface/connection from iPhone > to the IBox > which was then connected via optical to the Bit One.
> 
> ...


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## nubz69 (Aug 27, 2005)

Has anyone pointed out that if you plan on using this with your iphone, you won't get data? I will take a wired connection that converts everything to spdif, thank you. I just wish someone would create a digital audio out sound card for android. Then we all could have 24/192k digital signals to send to what ever box we want.


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## jtaudioacc (Apr 6, 2010)

that was the question I've always had, and never been answered. I believe you lose it, like all other devices that hook up wifi with an idevice. 

24/192 is great, if your processor can handle it. then find enough music that you actually like. lol.






nubz69 said:


> Has anyone pointed out that if you plan on using this with your iphone, you won't get data? I will take a wired connection that converts everything to spdif, thank you. I just wish someone would create a digital audio out sound card for android. Then we all could have 24/192k digital signals to send to what ever box we want.


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## d5sc (Aug 14, 2007)

jtaudioacc said:


> oic, there would probably be less difference with the ibox analog input. which is the main reason for the box, the upgraded d/a, then, the wireless function.


Yes, this is what I meant/was trying to convey...

BTW, I sent a PM to Nick Wingate to check out the thread so that he can, hopefully, answer the questions that you and others may have...


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Anything higher than 16bit/44.1kHz is useless for source playback. It's like a tailor using a precision ruler to take your measurements.

AES E-Library » Audibility of a CD-Standard A/DA/A Loop Inserted into High-Resolution Audio Playback

24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed


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## nubz69 (Aug 27, 2005)

t3sn4f2, I disagree


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

nubz69 said:


> Has anyone pointed out that if you plan on using this with your iphone, you won't get data? I will take a wired connection that converts everything to spdif, thank you. *I just wish someone would create a digital audio out sound card for android.* Then we all could have 24/192k digital signals to send to what ever box we want.


There actually is one Android phone available that has direct Digital Coaxial Output available...the Meizu MX. It's not the highest-spec'd Android phone otherwise, but not bad at all. Wish it had expandable memory via a MicroSD card, though! Follow the Link and scroll to the bottom of the page and click on the "Music" and "Media Center" icons (a Vinyl LP and a USB Connector icon).

http://en.meizu.com/products/mx-product.html#picHolder1


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

anymore feedback???


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## 1998993C2S (Feb 2, 2011)

Subscribe.


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

I am using an Airport Express with an external DAC. 12V to 5V, and 12V to 3.3V step down converters. Total cost about $150 all together. AE digital out is 16/44. RCA from DAC to MS-8. Source is Spotify on "extreme" setting. Sounds brilliant!

Note: Your iPhone can receive data while connected to WiFi. I have been streaming Spotify for 3 months now. There is a trick to set it up that way, I'll have to dig to see exactly how I set it up if anyone is interested.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Spotify is the shizzz. I don't know why more people aren't using it


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## SouthernSlam2013 (Jun 27, 2013)

LG G2 Smartphone

LG G2 is first smartphone to support 24bit/192kHz hi-res music | whathifi.com


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## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

BigRed said:


> Spotify is the shizzz. I don't know why more people aren't using it




You said it! Spotify is the best service ive seen yet. Love it


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