# Cheap deadener, any experience?



## juiceweazel (Jul 28, 2014)

Does this seem really cheap? I got a new vehicle & looking to start making the car quiet soon. Oh I'm a prime member so shipping is free too 

https://www.amazon.com/GTMAT-Automo...01676442&sr=1-30-spons&keywords=dynamat&psc=1


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## BBOYSTEVIE (May 2, 2005)

No personal experience with that specifically. It's cool that it comes with a roller and stuff. It's probably fine. 

As a prime member myself, (on top of other things), I went with the Noico 80mil and am very happy with it. Noico also has a 50 mil on Amazon which I'm sure is fine just lighter. Amazon also has some nice CCF with adhesive back that was real convenient to work with. 

Seeing that you're in Pennsylvania, keep in mind that Rudeboy/ Sound Deadener Showdown is around Manchester, Maryland. His CLD tiles are smaller but work real well also, and of course he's got CCF and MLV if you need it (which is better to pick up than ship).


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

its literal garbage. tested nearly as bad as peel and seal in chris's testing. its not even worth the time itll take to install. get some good stuff like sds or knu kolossus. itll be worth it in the end

unfortunately i just realized that photobucket shut his account off until he pays, which pretty much ruins any thread on this site using pictures hosted on their site. **** YOU PHOTOBUCKET!

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ns/146403-sound-deadening-cld-testing-69.html


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## juiceweazel (Jul 28, 2014)

BBOYSTEVIE said:


> No personal experience with that specifically. It's cool that it comes with a roller and stuff. It's probably fine.
> 
> As a prime member myself, (on top of other things), I went with the Noico 80mil and am very happy with it. Noico also has a 50 mil on Amazon which I'm sure is fine just lighter. Amazon also has some nice CCF with adhesive back that was real convenient to work with.
> 
> Seeing that you're in Pennsylvania, keep in mind that Rudeboy/ Sound Deadener Showdown is around Manchester, Maryland. His CLD tiles are smaller but work real well also, and of course he's got CCF and MLV if you need it (which is better to pick up than ship).


I live on Lake Erie so that'd be a 5+ hour drive. The shipping can be expensive as you know so trying to take advantage of Prime. I'll have to check out your suggestions. Thanks



SkizeR said:


> its literal garbage. tested nearly as bad as peel and seal in chris's testing. its not even worth the time itll take to install. get some good stuff like sds or knu kolossus. itll be worth it in the end
> 
> unfortunately i just realized that photobucket shut his account off until he pays, which pretty much ruins any thread on this site using pictures hosted on their site. **** YOU PHOTOBUCKET!
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ns/146403-sound-deadening-cld-testing-69.html


This is why I come on this forum. Real world experiences. When it comes to deadner, I don't care what brand it is, as long as it works. So SDS & Knu are still the best bang for the buck these days? How is Noico?

I wondered what happened to Photobucket. Really pisses me off because yes these forums are almost worthless without photos.


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## glockcoma (Dec 22, 2015)

As BBOYSTEVIE mentioned if your set on ordering from amazon to take advantage of prime I would got the 80mil Noico route.


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## juiceweazel (Jul 28, 2014)

glockcoma said:


> As BBOYSTEVIE mentioned if your set on ordering from amazon to take advantage of prime I would got the 80mil Noico route.


Not set on taking advantage of Prime, just trying to save a little money on the shipping because this stuff is heavy. If a product performs better and is just a little more to get to my door then I'd be all for it. I don't mind spending a little extra if it's worth it, but not double when I can get near the same performance for half the price.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

SDS! KNU KOL or Dynamat. Top 3 and available. 

You only need 25-35% coverage.

Cheap gets expensive, meaning 100% coverage of cheap deadener can cost as much or more than the 3 listed above. And still cheap ones won't come close to the response of those 3 using 1/4" of it.

How big is the new vehicle?


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

The Knu Kolossus is available on Amazon with free shipping.


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## 82cj8 (Jan 21, 2011)

I wanted the knu colossus but it was double the price as the noico 80mil.Noico was $65.60 for 36 sq ft. And the noico liner was $61.13 for 37.5sq.ft. .Im going to try to install it over the weekend as well as paint the whole truck so im not sure how much I will get done.Truck is sanded but not taped and wiped yet.I still have to pick speakers.Im not sure if the Morels 3 7/16" depth plus a 1/4"spacer will fit my ram.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

juiceweazel said:


> Does this seem really cheap? I got a new vehicle & looking to start making the car quiet soon. Oh I'm a prime member so shipping is free too
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/GTMAT-Automo...01676442&sr=1-30-spons&keywords=dynamat&psc=1


Proper sound deadener would never come on roll like that. There are so many better brands available on Amazon Prime free shipping to order, don't make the mistake of ordering a cheap deadener on a roll. Almost all Damplifier and Damplifier PRO products are on Amazon and have free shipping for Prime Members. Insist on a butyl product that will actually do what it was manufactured to do. Good luck on your build, no matter what brand you decide to use.

Damplifier Pro Pack on Amazon 

We also offer great B Stock boxes at a 30% discount Damplifier Pro B Stock


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Second Skin said:


> Proper sound deadener would never come on roll like that. There are so many better brands available on Amazon Prime free shipping to order, don't make the mistake of ordering a cheap deadener on a roll. Almost all Damplifier and Damplifier PRO products are on Amazon and have free shipping for Prime Members. Insist on a butyl product that will actually do what it was manufactured to do. Good luck on your build, no matter what brand you decide to use.
> 
> Damplifier Pro Pack on Amazon
> 
> We also offer great B Stock boxes at a 30% discount Damplifier Pro B Stock


a pattern was shown in chris's test that the better CLD's in fact did not come in rolls. is there a technical reason as to why?


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## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

I just used Noico on mine.. stuff is great for the price! About to use the 50mil on my roof.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> a pattern was shown in chris's test that the better CLD's in fact did not come in rolls. is there a technical reason as to why?


There is always a reason why long lasting, high quality companies take the extra steps to make sure their products are manufactured, presented, and sold in the best conditions for their customers. But I am not going to go into detail about "why" and offer other companies free advice, as enough companies in the market have piggy backed off our success over the past 18 years already 

Ask TooStubbornToFail, he may know the reasons from all those years of testing he did.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Second Skin said:


> There is always a reason why long lasting, high quality companies take the extra steps to make sure their products are manufactured, presented, and sold in the best conditions for their customers. But I am not going to go into detail about "why" and offer other companies free advice, as enough companies in the market have piggy backed off our success over the past 18 years already
> 
> Ask TooStubbornToFail, he may know the reasons from all those years of testing he did.


soooo.. you dont know why. got it


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Please don't repeat my mistake and buy some cheap stuff. Way back when, probably 8-9 years ago I bought some "recommended" but off brand sound deadener and placed it all over the car; trunk, doors, floor, etc. Every summer I have some melt in the doors and leak down on the sill below the door. And I'm in TN so it gets hot but it's not too crazy. So please do yourself a favor and spend a little extra to buy good stuff so you don't have your wife yell at you when some "tar" got on her pants/dress/shoe.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> soooo.. you dont know why. got it


You got us Skizer :laugh::laugh:....we have no idea why we go through the extra steps and spend the extra money to use only high quality butyl and and distribute it the way we do, instead of jamming it inside of a box half the size of the product, rolled up, and tapping the box closed. We choose to just piss away thousands of extra dollars every factory run to do things a certain way for no reason at all..........Funny stuff, you don't stay in business for this long by not knowing what you are doing sir. But at least you are clever enough to realize the top performers don't roll it up for a reason. If you ever figure that reason out, please let us know so we can justify our extra hours and material cost involved with proper manufacturing and packaging for the past 18 years.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Second Skin said:


> You got us Skizer ....we have no idea why we go through the extra steps and spend the extra money to use only high quality butyl and and distribute it the way we do, instead of jamming it inside of a box half the size of the product, rolled up, and tapping the box closed. We choose to just piss away thousands of extra dollars every factory run to do things a certain way for no reason at all..........Funny stuff, you don't stay in business for this long by not knowing what you are doing sir. But at least you are clever enough to realize the top performers don't roll it up for a reason. If you ever figure that reason out, please let us know so we can justify our extra hours and material cost involved with proper manufacturing and packaging for the past 18 years.


Was hoping that would squeeze some info out of you for once lol

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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> Was hoping that would squeeze some info out of you for once lol
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


Good try sir...keep up the great work and have an awesome day 

PS don't tell the asphalt and tar guys this secret, keep letting them roll that roofing product up.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Second Skin said:


> ...But I am not going to go into detail about "why" and offer other companies free advice, as enough companies in the market have piggy backed off our success over the past 18 years already


:laugh:


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Performance is the primary reason to choose a product like damplifier pro but another good reason, at least for me, was weight. Iirc it weighs less than all the others. I don't know about you but I don't wan't to put a bunch of heavy deadener in the doors. Too much weight and it makes them annoying to open and close.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Y'all talk trash to Second Skin. Wtf are you doing? 
If you don't like them then open your own business. Do it better. 
But no. You just get on a forum and act like your opinion matters.


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## bnae38 (Oct 3, 2015)

Got-Four-Eights said:


> I just used Noico on mine.. stuff is great for the price! About to use the 50mil on my roof.



Ditto for my last batch, after I used up a roll of raamatt from years ago. Same thing, used the 50mil on the roof .

No issues with the noico, works great!


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

DC/Hertz said:


> Y'all talk trash to Second Skin. Wtf are you doing?
> If you don't like them then open your own business. Do it better.
> But no. You just get on a forum and act like your opinion matters.


We just go on a forum and we act like our opinion matters? Um, isn't that what you just did? Lol.

If someone says something silly, it's to be expected that they get silly responses. I have nothing against their products, i personally never have used them. I'm sure they're great products, I just don't care for their attitude and the bs they spew without having anything to back it up. 

Debunking myths and other audio woo, understanding the science behind why things work the way they do or not work the way they do is a big part of what this forum is about. If you don't like that mentality, why don't YOU go start your own forum. YOU do it better. 

Besides, I'm pretty sure the owners of second skin can handle a little bit of forum ribbing. If they can't, then they need to back up what they say. But of course, they don't owe DIYMA anything, so it is what it is. I'm sure in the end, they will be ok. They have been after all the leader in sound deadening for around 18 years. They must be doing something right, right?



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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Again to the OP, sorry for jacking your thread. 

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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Chris never released the NOICO tests, or maybe he did not test it. I was interested in seeing them. As long as it's butyl it will be better than roof products. Needing less than 16 sf to do 2 doors and a trunk saving $30 is not worth knowing you can get quality and performance you can rely on.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Weightless said:


> We just go on a forum and we act like our opinion matters? Um, isn't that what you just did? Lol.
> 
> If someone says something silly, it's to be expected that they get silly responses. I have nothing against their products, i personally never have used them. I'm sure they're great products, I just don't care for their attitude and the bs they spew without having anything to back it up.
> 
> ...


It's old. People start crap just to start crap. People push buttons just to get a reaction. This hobby is pathetic.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Second Skin said:


> Good try sir...keep up the great work and have an awesome day


It is curious that you keep dodging these questions.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

His product works well. Why does he need to talk about the details? 
Go ask Andy to break down his design and manufacture process. See if you get an answer.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

DC/Hertz said:


> His product works well. Why does he need to talk about the details?


Because SS keeps mentioning this scientific testing that has never been seen as evidence of a superior product. Every time someone asks about it, the question is deflected to a standard answer "we've been in business a long time so we're doing something right". If Second Skin didn't come in and spam everyone looking for deadening advice I might not care, but I like to read these threads too and can only read that so many times without questions.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

Weightless said:


> I'm sure they're great products, I just don't care for their attitude and the bs they spew without having anything to back it up.


:laugh::laugh::icon_bs:


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

DC/Hertz said:


> His product works well. Why does he need to talk about the details?
> Go ask Andy to break down his design and manufacture process. See if you get an answer.


We appreciate your kind words, but don't waste your time arguing with them sir, they have hated on us since Anthony owned Second Skin and owned DIYMA, it is the reason we did not buy this forum when we had first dibs on it. It doesn't bother us one bit, there banter actually gets us free attention and we get sales almost every time from the on lookers who can see the truth about our product line and 18 years of positive reviews. The funniest part, is almost every one of them enter our giveaways every time we have one. Second Skin will be here slanging noise and heat insulation for decades more to come. 

Second Skin For The Win


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Second skin and Derek are joinimg force's.. Oh god this should br good.

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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

rob feature said:


> It is curious that you keep dodging these questions.


Seriously??? You think we should just give up everything about the sound deadening industry in an open forum? I tell you what sir, you start your own business and then go out and publicly inform all your competition of why you did the things you do to be successful. 

When you have new companies naming themselves similar to you, using the verbiage off your website and modeling themselves after your success you don't keep helping them out (Ant and Ken in the the earlier years were way to helpful to the snakes that were lurking in the forums to start their own business). We literally have companies naming themselves so close to us and slapping on a fake USA name to act like American made sound deadening, that there customers call us up thinking we are them and have no idea the product they are calling about is made in China. Makes for any easy sell for us though.

Sir, when you become successful in your business, we will think about taking advice from you and the rest of the peanut gallery. But seeings how we are doing so well in our 18 years of success, I think we will stick to our current business model. Thanks for keeping our name alive in the DIYMA threads once again.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

DC/Hertz said:


> It's old. People start crap just to start crap. People push buttons just to get a reaction. This hobby is pathetic.


The hobby is fine. What's pathetic are people who blindly follow and defend products who spew crap and dodge questions. 

No one is trying to get a reaction. Something silly was said and I reacted with a laugh. It was you who reacted saying I need to put up or shut up. Essentially if I disagree with something I should just keep my mouth shut because you know, it's second skin and I use their products. 

If you don't want people to react, then please, go create your new forum where you can disable the reply button and only have an active "like" button. 

Silly, silly indeed.

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

What does it matter if people are happy with it? Who are you to say what someone should like?


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

DC/Hertz said:


> His product works well. Why does he need to talk about the details?
> Go ask Andy to break down his design and manufacture process. See if you get an answer.


Again, I'm sure his products work well. But typically people like to understand how and why things work. 

We aren't asking for his formula for the butyl that is in his cld, it was asked why he thinks the cld that came in rolls performed worse than ones that were shipped flat. A simple question. If he didn't know the real reason why, he could have said "I don't know, but I can look it up and find out" and then if he did find an actual reason for the performance difference, then he could have easily have used that finding to push his product more. But no, he came in with a bs answer and then when called out on it, he said i don't have to tell you a thing, after all, we don't owe DIYMA anything, and that everyone is trying to steal our trade secrets. Blah blah.

And about Andy, if you ask him why he chose to do something with his design or why he used what he used to build a better product, I can almost guarantee that he would gladly explain those reasons and not spew crap about how other companies are stealing his ideas.

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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Second Skin said:


> :icon_bs:


 cheers!

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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Second Skin said:


> We appreciate your kind words, but don't waste your time arguing with them sir, they have hated on us since Anthony owned Second Skin and owned DIYMA, it is the reason we did not buy this forum when we had first dibs on it. It doesn't bother us one bit, there banter actually gets us free attention and we get sales almost every time from the on lookers who can see the truth about our product line and 18 years of positive reviews. The funniest part, is almost every one of them enter our giveaways every time we have one. Second Skin will be here slanging noise and heat insulation for decades more to come.
> 
> Second Skin For The Win


I dont hate you. I don't know you. I just don't like the weasel way that you dodge questions and then turn and point your finger at everyone else. What a joke. 

And yes, I admit, I took part in one of your giveaways. I tried it on one door and it did absolutely nothing so I didn't bother with installing the second one. I'm sure i have it on a shelf somewhere in my garage. I can mail it back to you if you're so butt hurt over it.

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Weightless said:


> Again, I'm sure his products work well. But typically people like to understand how and why things work.
> 
> We aren't asking for his formula for the butyl that is in his cld, it was asked why he thinks the cld that came in rolls performed worse than ones that were shipped flat. A simple question. If he didn't know the real reason why, he could have said "I don't know, but I can look it up and find out" and then if he did find an actual reason for the performance difference, then he could have easily have used that finding to push his product more. But no, he came in with a bs answer and then when called out on it, he said i don't have to tell you a thing, after all, we don't owe DIYMA anything, and that everyone is trying to steal our trade secrets. Blah blah.
> 
> ...


It's a dumb question. Go try to roll up any good deadener.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Second Skin said:


> Seriously??? You think we should just give up everything about the sound deadening industry in an open forum? I tell you what sir, you start your own business and then go out and publicly inform all your competition of why you did the things you do to be successful.
> 
> When you have new companies naming themselves similar to you, using the verbiage off your website and modeling themselves after your success you don't keep helping them out (Ant and Ken in the the earlier years were way to helpful to the snakes that were lurking in the forums to start their own business). We literally have companies naming themselves so close to us and slapping on a fake USA name to act like American made sound deadening, that there customers call us up thinking we are them and have no idea the product they are calling about is made in China. Makes for any easy sell for us though.
> 
> Sir, when you become successful in your business, we will think about taking advice from you and the rest of the peanut gallery. But seeings how we are doing so well in our 18 years of success, I think we will stick to our current business model. Thanks for keeping our name alive in the DIYMA threads once again.


So asking about the potential issues of rolling up cld is an industry secret? Again, he wasnt asking for formulas. 

You do realise you are only in a sound deadening industry? You really take yourself so seriously don't you? What a joke.

And don't get me wrong, it does suck that there are companies that pull that kind of crap and try to sell their inferior product under the guise of looking like or mimicking an obviously superior product. There should be a certain place in the made up hell for people like that. I do agree with you there. 

But come on...no one has asked you trade secrets. 

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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

DC/Hertz said:


> What does it matter if people are happy with it? Who are you to say what someone should like?


When did I say what people should like? Buy it if it works for you. But stop defending someone who can't answer a simple non trade secret question.

Here you go: Everyone! Go buy second skin products! Especially if it makes you happy! Because that what sound deadening is all about. Happiness, lol 

There, see? No animosity toward their product.

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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

DC/Hertz said:


> It's a dumb question. Go try to roll up any good deadener.


There are no dumb questions. Only dumb answers.

You do know that people typically go to diy websites to learn, right? 

What's obvious to someone who is seasoned may not be obvious to all.



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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Second Skin said:


> Seriously??? You think we should just give up everything about the sound deadening industry in an open forum? I tell you what sir, you start your own business and then go out and publicly inform all your competition of why you did the things you do to be successful.
> 
> When you have new companies naming themselves similar to you, using the verbiage off your website and modeling themselves after your success you don't keep helping them out (Ant and Ken in the the earlier years were way to helpful to the snakes that were lurking in the forums to start their own business). We literally have companies naming themselves so close to us and slapping on a fake USA name to act like American made sound deadening, that there customers call us up thinking we are them and have no idea the product they are calling about is made in China. Makes for any easy sell for us though.
> 
> Sir, when you become successful in your business, we will think about taking advice from you and the rest of the peanut gallery. But seeings how we are doing so well in our 18 years of success, I think we will stick to our current business model. Thanks for keeping our name alive in the DIYMA threads once again.


Right on cue

Sorry, I should have been more specific. You often reference thorough testing that suggests your products to be superior to others yet have not produced any results nor methodologies when asked for details. This is something that can be done by anyone. I could go buy your stuff & test it against other stuff and no trade secrets are compromised. Pinky swear.


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## spread5150 (Apr 30, 2017)

How about getting back on topic. Im here to learn what else is out there. These guys can PM each other this stuff.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Yip, sorry OP


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DC/Hertz said:


> It's a dumb question. Go try to roll up any good deadener.


Another hypocritical moment for you Derek.. The deadener you were saying is so great the past recent months comes in rolls......

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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Alrojoca said:


> Chris never released the NOICO tests, or maybe he did not test it. I was interested in seeing them. As long as it's butyl it will be better than roof products. Needing less than 16 sf to do 2 doors and a trunk saving $30 is not worth knowing you can get quality and performance you can rely on.


IIRC it was up next. Been a while since I read that thread though.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> Another hypocritical moment for you Derek.. The deadener you were saying is so great the past recent months comes in rolls......
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


Sound skins is not a tile with a foil layer. 
Carry on


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DC/Hertz said:


> Sound skins is not a tile with a foil layer.
> Carry on


It is, with an added foam layer.

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

It's butyl and foam


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## rayray881 (Jul 15, 2013)

Second Skin said:


> Seriously??? You think we should just give up everything about the sound deadening industry in an open forum? I tell you what sir, you start your own business and then go out and publicly inform all your competition of why you did the things you do to be successful.
> 
> When you have new companies naming themselves similar to you, using the verbiage off your website and modeling themselves after your success you don't keep helping them out (Ant and Ken in the the earlier years were way to helpful to the snakes that were lurking in the forums to start their own business). We literally have companies naming themselves so close to us and slapping on a fake USA name to act like American made sound deadening, that there customers call us up thinking we are them and have no idea the product they are calling about is made in China. Makes for any easy sell for us though.
> 
> Sir, when you become successful in your business, we will think about taking advice from you and the rest of the peanut gallery. But seeings how we are doing so well in our 18 years of success, I think we will stick to our current business model. Thanks for keeping our name alive in the DIYMA threads once again.


Pyle Audio has been in business for 50 years. They must be doing something right too! Do they provide a high quality product? Correlation does not equal causation!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

i have no doubt that theyre product is of at least halfway decent quality. chris's testing showed them to be more than acceptable. what bothers me is their attitude and their refusal to *GENUINELY* help on the forum. every god damn post is a ****ing sales pitch. as a matter of fact, theyre probably hurting their sales just by being on here posting the way they do. meanwhile look at Don @ SDS. He genuinely cares and helps the community and receives nothing but praise. his top of the line product helps with that too.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

Yeah it does look a little ragged lol.


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## drei4runner (Jan 3, 2017)

I purchased the 36 ft 80 mil Noico and used it in my 4runner and so far it's been great. I did the 4 doors in my vehicle and 3 doors in my wife's Sequoia (to lazy to finish the last door and it's hot right now) and I still have some of the Noico left over. We've had triple digit weather out here in Southern California and I haven't seen any goop melt and drip down my doors and I park my vehicle outside where the sun is beaming down on it. Also purchased on Amazon and free shipping w/ Prime and it arrived w/in like 2 days.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> i have no doubt that theyre product is of at least halfway decent quality. chris's testing showed them to be more than acceptable. what bothers me is their attitude and their refusal to *GENUINELY* help on the forum. *every god damn post is a sales pitch. as a matter of fact, theyre probably hurting their sales just by being on here posting the way they do. *meanwhile look at Don @ SDS. He genuinely cares and helps the community and receives nothing but praise. his top of the line product helps with that too.


This is at least true with me. I need to deaden my wife's minivan so I can have a stereo when we go on long trips. I'm definitely turned off by the blatant sales pitches and somewhat argumentative style. SDS is the primary one I'm looking at just because of the help/info they provide and the consistency of sales/price. Not inexpensive by a long shot but it isn't like there is a much less expensive alternative. The only way to really save is to go cheaper, which is synonymous with poor. I will be considering Noico based on feedback here but I wish there were similar options on Amazon for CCF, MLV, and hydrophobic melamine as searching so far hasn't turned up anything that gets my attention.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ps, I'm 99% sure noico is stp under a new name. Same packaging, same deadener, same pattern, and is even sold by "STP atlantic" on Amazon.

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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> Ps, I'm 99% sure noico is stp under a new name. Same packaging, same deadener, same pattern, and is even sold by "STP atlantic" on Amazon.


Is that a bad thing? I hadn't heard of STP but a quick search seemed positive? It is curious they changed the name though if that is the case.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

dgage said:


> Is that a bad thing? I hadn't heard of STP but a quick search seemed positive? It is curious they changed the name though if that is the case.


Its ok. Just look at stp silver in Chris's testing (that's what I'm guessing it is).. Oh wait, you can't cause photobucket sucks

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## juiceweazel (Jul 28, 2014)

I've been here long enough to know this post would cause some **** but damn :laugh:



Second Skin said:


> Proper sound deadener would never come on roll like that. There are so many better brands available on Amazon Prime free shipping to order, don't make the mistake of ordering a cheap deadener on a roll. Almost all Damplifier and Damplifier PRO products are on Amazon and have free shipping for Prime Members. Insist on a butyl product that will actually do what it was manufactured to do. Good luck on your build, no matter what brand you decide to use.
> 
> Damplifier Pro Pack on Amazon
> 
> We also offer great B Stock boxes at a 30% discount Damplifier Pro B Stock


Thank you for the advice.
I'll check them out too, thank you.



dgage said:


> Please don't repeat my mistake and buy some cheap stuff. Way back when, probably 8-9 years ago I bought some "recommended" but off brand sound deadener and placed it all over the car; trunk, doors, floor, etc. Every summer I have some melt in the doors and leak down on the sill below the door. And I'm in TN so it gets hot but it's not too crazy. So please do yourself a favor and spend a little extra to buy good stuff so you don't have your wife yell at you when some "tar" got on her pants/dress/shoe.


Can you say which brand this was? I never had an issue with deadner melting, but then again I live in northern PA not TN.



Weightless said:


> Again to the OP, sorry for jacking your thread.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk





rob feature said:


> Yip, sorry OP


No worries, I'm enjoying this a little...


A few years ago I bought this off Sonic for $50. Too bad they don't have this deal anymore. It was pretty good stuff to work with, never had an issue & doors were solid after the install.
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_75902_Maxxlink-VSD-TK.html

I appreciate all the insight. I should know by now you get what you pay for but I was wondering, something as simple as deadner should be relatively simple right? Guess not...

My new ride is a low mileage 2013 Subaru Legacy 3.6R. The paperwork says Limited but it's not badged as such so who knows. It's trimmed out very well. I'd post a pic but Photobucket blows goats. It has the Harmon Kardon "Premium" sound system with GPS, 2" speakers on the dash, 6.5" in front doors & rear doors & an 8" sub on the rear deck. For being factory, the sound is not bad at all. But like everyone else here I'm not leaving well enough alone.
From my last build I have a Pioneer 4100, Bit10, PG TI2 1600.5, 2 Alpine Type S 10s, JLC5 tweeters and I just before buying the car I got some Hertz HSK hi energy 165 6.5" speakers. I also have a PPI 900.5 and a JL10TW3 sitting in the basement.
My plan for this build is a simple SQ 2 way up with enough bump to shake the mirrors. I am hoping to use the factory head unit as my source as it's pretty nice & accepts USB as well. (Would be my 1st go at using the factory source). I just have to verify the voltage out of the deck is enough. (Anybody know off the top of their head lol). If I can't use my bit10 I can get a bit1 cheap or I may even step up to a Helix. I haven't decided on sub stage yet so everything is on the table. I just need a usable trunk & access to the spare. I plan on doing a build log with photos when I get started. Just need another place to host pics, stupid photo bucket.


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## cornbreadman (Aug 4, 2017)

Maybe the DIY Lizard Skin if you dont mind spraying it down.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

SkizeR said:


> as a matter of fact, they're probably hurting their sales just by being on here posting the way they do.


That is hilarious, you think we would waste an employees time somewhere we didn't pull revenue from? That is a pretty dumb business stance. Any exposure is good exposure (a free business tip for you). Every time you bring up our name, other people hit google up, type our name into the search bar, and spend minutes/hours reading/watching 17 years worth of real world reviews/videos on every platform they come across. They can turn on their TV and see the product being used on some of the most expensive builds in this country (West Coast Customs). They'll see record setting vehicles in db leagues, SPL & SQ events using Second Skin and repping Team Second Skin. They'll watch some of the most famous and long standing Car Audio & Automotive Industry You Tubers insisting on our products after decades of personal use. Smart, educated people are not sheep, they don't just follow what the "cool kids" say on the play ground of DIYMA, they all look up the facts and make a decision based on performance, reputation, and reviews.......not what SKEIZERS opinion is on the matter. 

PS If it wasn't for vendors and sponsors these forums wouldn't even exist anymore guys, just like the free photo hosting by Photobucket, if you scare away all the vendors and sponsors....POOF there goes the free access to all the fun. Enjoy life, pick whatever brand you like the most, have fun with your builds, and keep throwing our name out guys, we appreciate it. :thumbsup::thumbsup: #SecondSkinForTheWin


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Second Skin said:


> That is hilarious, you think we would waste an employees time somewhere we didn't pull revenue from? That is a pretty dumb business stance. Any exposure is good exposure (a free business tip for you). Every time you bring up our name, other people hit google up, type our name into the search bar, and spend minutes/hours reading/watching 17 years worth of real world reviews/videos on every platform they come across. They can turn on their TV and see the product being used on some of the most expensive builds in this country (West Coast Customs). They'll see record setting vehicles in db leagues, SPL & SQ events using Second Skin and repping Team Second Skin. They'll watch some of the most famous and long standing Car Audio & Automotive Industry You Tubers insisting on our products after decades of personal use. Smart, educated people are not sheep, they don't just follow what the "cool kids" say on the play ground of DIYMA, they all look up the facts and make a decision based on performance, reputation, and reviews.......not what SKEIZERS opinion is on the matter.
> 
> PS If it wasn't for vendors and sponsors these forums wouldn't even exist anymore guys, just like the free photo hosting by Photobucket, if you scare away all the vendors and sponsors....POOF there goes the free access to all the fun. Enjoy life, pick whatever brand you like the most, have fun with your builds, and keep throwing our name out guys, we appreciate it. :thumbsup::thumbsup: #SecondSkinForTheWin


Apparently what we think on DIYMA matters to you or you wouldn't be here. You brag about how famous and well known your product is but the internet is everything these days. With a little bit of concerted effort we on DIYMA could make 9 out of 10 google search results for sound deadener display links and references to SDS and not your products. Do you doubt it?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

It's always about marketing.

Some products don't need to be the best to have more market share.

Look at car products for example. Turtle wax and armoral, they are not the best waxes or trim or tire dressers. They just have been around longer made money and continue to sell, still create new products, some exceed in some areas some fall short.
Sometimes being bigger or older may be better that being the best. And some people still think they are getting the best, even being aware of other brands. 

FRAM oil filters come to mind also. Despite all the many videos bashing them, they are still around and people are still loyal because it has worked for them.


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

Ok, so I just searched automotive sound deadening, all the amazon "cheaper" products showed up first about 10 I think, #11 was SDS. Second Skin was on the second page?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Locomotive Tech said:


> Ok, so I just searched automotive sound deadening, all the amazon "cheaper" products showed up first about 10 I think, #11 was SDS. Second Skin was on the second page?


But bro, WEST COAST CUSTOMS USES THEM! THEYRE A STANDARD HOUSEHOLD NAME. 

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

And Bob Vila uses Craftsmen tools..........

9 out of 10 dentists choose..........

I get it though, I am lucky enough to live near Manchester, MD. I actually have my rear doors with an inferior CLD and my front doors with SDS, 50% less coverage and just by tapping on the door skin, the difference is audible. Whats that saying? pay now cry once, pay later cry twice?


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## Lonstar (May 13, 2017)

juice, I realize you're 5+ hours away from sound deadener showdown, but if you have the time, it's worth the drive.

I'm fortunate enough to live about a hour from Manchester. Now that I've met Don I'd drive further if I had to. Don is a very nice guy, knows a lot about sound deadening and is willing to give you all the info, instruction and guidance you need. His materials are 100% top grade and his prices are excellent.

I couldn't get there on a weekday without taking a day off work, emailed them asking if open weekends. Don replied they're not open weekends but was willing to meet with me on a weekend. Never met or talked to him before and he was willing to do that.

I took the interior panels off both passenger side doors before driving down. He looked everything over, explained where and how to apply the CDL tiles, and answered all my questions. He told me what to do, what not to do, and why, all based on his extensive experience. On top of that, when he was gathering and cutting all the materials I was buying, he threw in a few freebies and gave me a discount on the final price.

This was a few weeks ago, I'm in the process of installing the tiles, CCF and MLV now. 100% pleased that I took the time to meet with him. Knowing what I know now, I'd gladly drive 5 hours if I had to do it again.


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## juiceweazel (Jul 28, 2014)

Lonstar said:


> juice, I realize you're 5+ hours away from sound deadener showdown, but if you have the time, it's worth the drive.
> 
> I'm fortunate enough to live about a hour from Manchester. Now that I've met Don I'd drive further if I had to. Don is a very nice guy, knows a lot about sound deadening and is willing to give you all the info, instruction and guidance you need. His materials are 100% top grade and his prices are excellent.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a great experience. I'm glad there are businesses like this still around. I have no problems spending a little extra on a better product or even an equal product if it means supporting businesses such as these.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

DC/Hertz said:


> Weightless said:
> 
> 
> > We just go on a forum and we act like our opinion matters? Um, isn't that what you just did? Lol.
> ...



That's the internet. It happens on every forum to some degree, gaming forums being some of the absolute worst. Any place with a primarily young gathering if males.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

drop1 said:


> That's the internet. It happens on every forum to some degree, gaming forums being some of the absolute worst. Any place with a primarily young gathering if males.


Ahhhh the old MLG forums.. Good times lol

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## gregerst22 (Dec 18, 2012)

Alrojoca said:


> It's always about marketing.
> 
> Some products don't need to be the best to have more market share.
> 
> ...


But the days of traditional marketing are going away, fast. It used to be that companies relied on TV ads, papers or store shelves. Not anymore, the internet is everything and Google is king. The more we talk about and create web links to Sound Deadener Showdown's website and their products the higher ranking SDS will be on Google searches. It is called Page ranking, named after Larry Page (Google founder), and is how Google determines which sites show up first.


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## Lonstar (May 13, 2017)

gregerst22 said:


> But the days of traditional marketing are going away, fast. It used to be that companies relied on TV ads, papers or store shelves. Not anymore, the internet is everything and Google is king. The more we talk about and create web links to Sound Deadener Showdown's website and their products the higher ranking SDS will be on Google searches. It is called Page ranking, named after Larry Page (Google founder), and is how Google determines which sites show up first.


I couldn't agree more. The big guys have to mark up their prices to cover advertising, and sometimes (ok, most times) the ads hype up the product to be more than it is.

I found out about Sound Deadener Showdown from this site, a lot of people recommend them. I didn't know SDS was close to me. I went to the website and saw what he had to offer. I spent a lot of time researching all the other big name products, and as an Amazon Prime member was tempted to just order something from there. From my research I felt SDS offered the best product for the price, so I want back to his site to figure out how much it would cost.

I'm just doing my doors for now. I used the info on the SDS website to determine how many tiles and how much CCF and MLV I needed. After putting it in the cart, along with the necessary accessories (his price for glue and roller is cheaper than Amazon, I checked because I'm a cheap bastard), the shipping was $65. I was a bit shocked, $65 to ship $200 worth of stuff. That's what made me look up the address and realize they were an hour away. My first message to them - do you allow local pick up? I understood the high shipping cost when I was carrying the MLV to my car, that's some heavy ****!....and it was only for four doors! The boxes of tiles weren't light either.

I'll always support small business when I can, but when the product, price and especially the service is top notch, it makes the experience even better. I'll happily stand on a soap box and sing praise for someone like that.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Contact Don to see when he's available. I can't speak for him of course, but there have been a few people who have stopped by to pick up things in person. I, being one of them, thought it was a pleasure to meet him and see how he operates. 

He's one of the nicest guys and will give you his honest opinion about what would and would not work for your install. 

You can't go wrong with his products and advice. 

I agree about supporting a small business that was created by passion and solid science and research. 



Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

+1 on SDS - specially dig the CLD tiles & butyl rope. I've made a couple orders from Don now & he will keep my business as long as I'm doing this. I'd buy everything from him, but yeah the shipping out here can be harsh when things get big & heavy. 

And +1 more for doing it right one time. This is just one those things you can't do on the cheap & still win. It's just too much work to do twice - even more if you're cleaning up a mess from shady materials.


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## juiceweazel (Jul 28, 2014)

rob feature said:


> +1 on SDS - specially dig the CLD tiles & butyl rope. I've made a couple orders from Don now & he will keep my business as long as I'm doing this. I'd buy everything from him, but yeah the shipping out here can be harsh when things get big & heavy.
> 
> And +1 more for doing it right one time. This is just one those things you can't do on the cheap & still win. It's just too much work to do twice - even more if you're cleaning up a mess from shady materials.


I do agree it's something I don't want to do a 2nd time.



Weightless said:


> Contact Don to see when he's available. I can't speak for him of course, but there have been a few people who have stopped by to pick up things in person. I, being one of them, thought it was a pleasure to meet him and see how he operates.
> 
> He's one of the nicest guys and will give you his honest opinion about what would and would not work for your install.
> 
> ...


Already contacted SDS to see what he comes up with. His page is very informative. I'm curious how much a shop would charge to do a full install and how many days? Always nice to know how much I'm saving doing it myself.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

If you haven't already, I would ask what his rates are for installing the deadener. I don't know if he officially sells that as a service, but he has done applications himself in the past.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Second Skin said:


> That is hilarious, you think we would waste an employee’s time somewhere we didn't pull revenue from? That is a pretty dumb business stance. Any exposure is good exposure (a free business tip for you) ...


“Any exposure is good exposure?” Ha, ha, ha ,ha…You sound like someone who would believe in that strategy. Not surprised at all.



Second Skin said:


> …Every time you bring up our name, other people hit google up, type our name into the search bar, and spend minutes/hours reading/watching 17 years’ worth of real world reviews/videos on every platform they come across. They can turn on their TV and see the product being used on some of the most expensive builds in this country (West Coast Customs). They'll see record setting vehicles in dB leagues, SPL & SQ events using Second Skin and repping Team Second Skin. They'll watch some of the most famous and long-standing Car Audio & Automotive Industry You Tubers insisting on our products after decades of personal use…


Wow! That is an impressive resume. Now, I must say that I usually am not moved or impressed by resumes, but after reading that, I was floored. You guys must really know your stuff to be associated with acts like that. I had to know more. I decided to “hit Google up” so I can find out more. I need to know who Second Skin really is…

Shall we begin?

The first thing I looked up on Google was “Second Skin”. 

Though you did place 5th in the results list, I was not satisfied with that outcome. With you guys being so famous and awesome, being 5th couldn’t be right. It must be the words that I’m using to search with. I wanted/needed to see all the kudos, all the awards, and all the accolades that you spoke of and searching just using your name isn’t working. This time, maybe I will make the search parameter a little more generalized. I do admit, though, that being placed right between compression clothing, adhesive bandages, a very fashionable line of women’s overalls, and ballet costumes is impressive in its own right, it just didn’t give me the satisfaction I was looking for. I needed to dig further. 


The second thing I looked up was “auto sound deadening”.

You showed up in the results list again, but this time you came back as the 14th result…hmm, you moved down in position, weird.

I see that you are now right behind offerings from Eastwood, GTMat from Amazon, Noico from Amazon, random Ebay findings, Youtube videos for products found at Home Depot, Dynamat, Fatmat, Hushmat, SDS, WikiHow, and Crutchfield…Interesting.

While this did put you above the offerings from B-Quiet, Rammaudio, Cascadeaudio and Sonicelectronix, I still wasn’t satisfied with my findings. There must be better search parameters that I can use. I really wanted to see these expensive builds, these YouTube experts, these record setting competitions that you talk about…so I searched a bit further.


The third thing I looked up was just “sound deadener”. You can’t get any more general than that.

Bam! There we go, we are heading back in the right direction! You now came back as the 10th result. It’s better, but still not what I was expecting…the search continues and the hunt is on.


The fourth thing that I looked up was, “BEST sound deadening material”. I mean, you guys are the best, right?

Dammit! You slipped down to the 12th result…maybe I am just not good at searching online and my Google-Fu really needs some brushing up. 

I thought I would give it one last honest effort. 


For my fifth and final search…I looked up, “Sound deadening from 17 years’ worth of real world reviews/videos being used on some of the most expensive builds in this country (West Coast Customs) while setting records in dB leagues, SPL & SQ events while being promoted by the most famous car audio & automotive industry Youtubers who insist on our products after decades of personal use”.

Yeah, I got nothing. I went through 4-5 pages before giving up. I think I am starting to see a pattern here… 




Second Skin said:


> …That Smart, educated people are not sheep, they don't just follow what the "cool kids" say on the playground of DIYMA, they all look up the facts and make a decision based on performance, reputation, and reviews.......not what SKEIZERS opinion is on the matter…


Nice way to insult potential customers. 




Second Skin said:


> …PS If it wasn't for vendors and sponsors these forums wouldn't even exist anymore guys, just like the free photo hosting by Photobucket, if you scare away all the vendors and sponsors....POOF there goes the free access to all the fun…


The funny thing is, is that no one is complaining about there being vendors or sponsors. That is to be expected with this type of forum. The complaints are and have been about your attitude and BS responses that you give when called out or even questioned. There were a few instances where a simple question was asked and you blew it way out of proportion spewing the things you do, the way you do.

Actually, it happens frequently enough that it makes one wonder if all of this is intentional. You said it yourself, “Any exposure is good exposure”, right? 

One could conclude that you intentionally start this crap just to create a heated discussion, have everyone respond to your BS, accuse everyone of hate-mongering and then turn it around and say, “See! They have always put us down. That we, the original, the best, who BTW have been in the industry for 17 years, are an innocent in all of this and this is what we have to put up with.” Then you just leave the thread, just to stir it up in another thread at another time. All the while, sitting back and thinking “If we do this often enough, people will research our name to see what all the commotion is about. And with all of the pushing, marketing and advertising that we do, people will see that we are everywhere, so we must sell a good product, we must be the best. They will buy more.” 



Second Skin said:


> Enjoy life, pick whatever brand you like the most, have fun with your builds…


At least we can agree on one thing... 


#SecondSkinUsedCarSalesman

#SecondSkinTrollMarketing

#SecondSkinJustBelieveWhatWeSayDontQuestionUsYouAreJustAHater


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## Hulk2015 (Apr 6, 2015)

dgage said:


> This is at least true with me. I need to deaden my wife's minivan so I can have a stereo when we go on long trips. I'm definitely turned off by the blatant sales pitches and somewhat argumentative style. SDS is the primary one I'm looking at just because of the help/info they provide and the consistency of sales/price. Not inexpensive by a long shot but it isn't like there is a much less expensive alternative. The only way to really save is to go cheaper, which is synonymous with poor. I will be considering Noico based on feedback here but I wish there were similar options on Amazon for CCF, MLV, and hydrophobic melamine as searching so far hasn't turned up anything that gets my attention.


I'm about to buy the *Noico Black 80 Mil 36sq ft pack* but am having a hard time finding anything for* CCF or MLV* on Amazon. What do you guys use from Amazon besides SS? Their LLP is like $76 PER sheet. My friends and family always give me Amazon gift cards for birthdays, Christmas, etc. so that's why I want to use Amazon.


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Hulk2015 said:


> I'm about to buy the *Noico Black 80 Mil 36sq ft pack*


I used Focal BAM on my Acura TL. It was the most expensive deadener I've ever used... and did the worst job!

Then I used Knu Konceptz Kolossus on my Audi S4. It might have been the best deadener I've ever used.

Noico 80 MIL is probably the best bang for the buck, out there... I used it on my previous Audi SQ5 build, as well as my current BMW build. Fully satisfied.


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## wr3nchmonkey (Aug 31, 2017)

Not sure if it has been mentioned already and I don't want to search through 4 pages to find out but I used the NVX stuff and it seems to work pretty well. I used two to three layers on the doors and it definitely eliminated all resonance (at least what i can hear)

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/ite...d-Deadening-Entire-Car-90mil-2.3mm-THICK.html


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## Hulk2015 (Apr 6, 2015)

jimmydee said:


> I used Focal BAM on my Acura TL. It was the most expensive deadener I've ever used... and did the worst job!
> 
> Then I used Knu Konceptz Kolossus on my Audi S4. It might have been the best deadener I've ever used.
> 
> Noico 80 MIL is probably the best bang for the buck, out there... I used it on my previous Audi SQ5 build, as well as my current BMW build. Fully satisfied.



Thanks for the info, I've decided to go with KnuKonceptz Kno Knoise Kolossus Sound Deadener 100Mil Thick 14sq ft Door Kit .


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## kanadian-kaos (Sep 12, 2010)

Hulk2015 said:


> I'm about to buy the *Noico Black 80 Mil 36sq ft pack* but am having a hard time finding anything for* CCF or MLV* on Amazon. What do you guys use from Amazon besides SS? Their LLP is like $76 PER sheet. My friends and family always give me Amazon gift cards for birthdays, Christmas, etc. so that's why I want to use Amazon.


Mass loaded Vinyl.
Noico CCF.

That's actually the best deal on MLV you will find anywhere... especially with the free shipping. Too bad it cost close to $200 for shipping to Canada.


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## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

Hulk2015 said:


> I'm about to buy the *Noico Black 80 Mil 36sq ft pack* but am having a hard time finding anything for* CCF or MLV* on Amazon. What do you guys use from Amazon besides SS? Their LLP is like $76 PER sheet. My friends and family always give me Amazon gift cards for birthdays, Christmas, etc. so that's why I want to use Amazon.


There is a Amazon listing for 80 Mil 36sq for 57 or 58 bucks. I used it on some doors recently and it's Awesome!


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## CAudio (Aug 29, 2016)

To the original poster:

There is Russian aluminum+butyl damping product available on Amazon that I would buy over the GTMat. There is a large Russian company that manufactures this stuff and about 10 other companies that private label it. STP Russia is the big manufacturer. STP Atlantic is not affiliated with them, FYI. I think this is the best for performance:value ratio. Keep in mind this is strictly for aluminum+butyl adhesive sheets. If you want real noise reduction you need a multi-layer approach.


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## CAudio (Aug 29, 2016)

Siless is the same as Noico and the price is better.


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## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0751CBXBT/ref=dp_prsubs_2


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Hulk2015 said:


> Thanks for the info, I've decided to go with KnuKonceptz Kno Knoise Kolossus Sound Deadener 100Mil Thick 14sq ft Door Kit .


Good Choice.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Hulk2015 said:


> I'm about to buy the *Noico Black 80 Mil 36sq ft pack* but am having a hard time finding anything for* CCF or MLV* on Amazon. What do you guys use from Amazon besides SS? Their LLP is like $76 PER sheet. My friends and family always give me Amazon gift cards for birthdays, Christmas, etc. so that's why I want to use Amazon.


The KnuKonceptz KnoKnoise Kolossus (just ignore the marketing gimmick name!!!) deadener is avaualbel from Amazon and according to a diyma members extensive testing, it scored close to the performance and heat resistance of the SDS CLD tiles. I am using either the SDS or the Knowledge Noise Kolossus and have been happy with the performance of either.

FYI--the 100 mil Kolossus sheets weigh very close to 1# per SF, so in addition to being a great CLD panel dampener, it should also add mass and reduce noise infiltration due to its density. This is just may theory that I have not tested comparing it others, but it IS a physical fact that material density contributes extensively to noise reduction.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

I have no dog in the fight, but I had sent a few emails to SDS before calling Second Skin.
Whether there is a massive difference in products I cannot say, but I have no complaints with the support from 2nd-Skin.

And really just about anything I installed would be beneficial... 95dB ambient noise sort of is enough to ba able to make a difference with any treatment.

So for me it is finding out "what to use", and "how to use it".


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## CAudio (Aug 29, 2016)

I looked on the SDS website. I fail to see how his product and his tiles are different than off the shelf butyl with aluminum CLD. The tiles are just a cut down standard size sheet. 
Yes. OEM manufacturers once used to use tiles to save money and time when dampening the inside of a chassis on a production line. Now most are using LASD. Saves time and money and 100% coverage.


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## criddopher (Apr 3, 2011)

noico has the same thickness and lb/sqft as atp atlantic silver. IF it is the same stuff under a new name silver did pretty good in the testing. Compared to kollosus and sds all I can tell is its damping of 70hz is about 3 db worse. 

Ive used it, my friend used it. noico works just fine. For the price its really hard to justify anything else.


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## criddopher (Apr 3, 2011)

CAudio said:


> I looked on the SDS website. I fail to see how his product and his tiles are different than off the shelf butyl with aluminum CLD. The tiles are just a cut down standard size sheet.
> Yes. OEM manufacturers once used to use tiles to save money and time when dampening the inside of a chassis on a production line. Now most are using LASD. Saves time and money and 100% coverage.


from what I understand different companies butyl is formulated differently. If you look at the testing thread you can see that SDS and kolossus indeed does the best job damping resonance. Not only do they bring down the noise the most, the ringing falls off the quickest as shown in the waterfall plots. IMO kollossus does a better job than SDS but I could be misreading the charts.

Although, if noico is stp silver like I just said in my above post, it performs extremely close to either of the top two, considering its half the price or better, I see no reason not to use it.


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## drei4runner (Jan 3, 2017)

criddopher said:


> from what I understand different companies butyl is formulated differently. If you look at the testing thread you can see that SDS and kolossus indeed does the best job damping resonance. Not only do they bring down the noise the most, the ringing falls off the quickest as shown in the waterfall plots. IMO kollossus does a better job than SDS but I could be misreading the charts.
> 
> 
> 
> Although, if noico is stp silver like I just said in my above post, it performs extremely close to either of the top two, considering its half the price or better, I see no reason not to use it.




Yes they’re the same company. Just different marketing brands. I purchased the Noico 80mil and haven’t had any problems with it. No runny mess out here in hot sunny SoCal summer weather where it gets to triple digits.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

Holmz said:


> I have no dog in the fight, but I had sent a few emails to SDS before calling Second Skin.
> Whether there is a massive difference in products I cannot say, but I have no complaints with the support from 2nd-Skin.
> 
> And really just about anything I installed would be beneficial... 95dB ambient noise sort of is enough to ba able to make a difference with any treatment.
> ...


Thanks for using our American made butyl products for your build in Australia, we appreciate it. If you haven't done so already, we would love to see your build in our Customer Gallery located on our website.


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## Hulk2015 (Apr 6, 2015)

Question on the KnuKonceptz KnoKnoise Kolossus. From the Amazon reviews some people have said that the product melts in the summer but I haven't heard anything about that on this forum. So for those of you that bought the KK KKK, how does it hold up?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

CAudio said:


> I looked on the SDS website. I fail to see how his product and his tiles are different than off the shelf butyl with aluminum CLD. The tiles are just a cut down standard size sheet.
> Yes. OEM manufacturers once used to use tiles to save money and time when dampening the inside of a chassis on a production line. Now most are using LASD. Saves time and money and 100% coverage.





criddopher said:


> from what I understand different companies butyl is formulated differently. If you look at the testing thread you can see that SDS and kolossus indeed does the best job damping resonance. Not only do they bring down the noise the most, the ringing falls off the quickest as shown in the waterfall plots. IMO kollossus does a better job than SDS but I could be misreading the charts.
> 
> Although, if noico is stp silver like I just said in my above post, it performs extremely close to either of the top two, considering its half the price or better, I see no reason not to use it.


^^^What he said.^^^

Take a look at the extensive testing that TooStubborn2Fail did. You can't just look at a product, weigh or even physically measure a product to know how well it performs. The conclusion TS2F came to was that butyl formulation was the single biggest contributing factor to CLD performance. 



Hulk2015 said:


> Question on the KnuKonceptz KnoKnoise Kolossus. From the Amazon reviews some people have said that the product melts in the summer but I haven't heard anything about that on this forum. So for those of you that bought the KK KKK, how does it hold up?


I use Knu Kolussus in my car, and the samples TS2F used for his testing came from me. For the most part, my KK has performed well, but I did have one piece that failed adhesion to my outer door skin. This is after one central California summer. Kolussus is also more difficult to work with than some other brands and messier. 

I would still recommend Knu Kolossus on a budget, but all of my builds going forward will likely be SDS or Dynamat Xtreme if I am concerned about weight.


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## gumbeelee (Jan 3, 2011)

I have used all the sound deadeners probably....KNU and Second Skin are my faves but a close 3rd is the Noico 80mil, u can’t beat it for the price, but KNU and SS are better


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

rton20s said:


> For the most part, my KK has performed well, but I did have one piece that failed adhesion to my outer door skin. This is after one central California summer. Kolussus is also more difficult to work with than some other brands and messier.
> 
> I would still recommend Knu Kolossus on a budget, but all of my builds going forward will likely be SDS or Dynamat Xtreme if I am concerned about weight.


This is useful feedback, I was planning on using SDS CLDs in my upcoming build and I think I'll stick with it in that case.


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## Gump_Runner (Aug 2, 2014)

Sound Deadening shopping is a lot like Mattress shopping. It's the same **** with differing marketing strategies with a concerted effort to conceal just that.


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## thornygravy (May 28, 2016)

I use the cheaper stuff on the floor (noico), and the good **** for pieces that hangs like on the doors, quarter panels, roof.. (second skin, dynamat, etc).


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Gump_Runner said:


> It's the same ****...


Except it isn't. 

Sure, in the broadest sense the "good stuff" is all just aluminum backed butyl, and the garbage is likely some sort of aluminum backed asphalt. However, testing has proven that they are not all created equally. 

If you want to stick with your mattress comparison, that is fine. One could look at the current mattress market trends and say, "they're all just foam," and you would be correct. However, lay on various models from different brands and in many cases the differences are noticeable instantaneously (soft vs hard, warm vs cool, more vs less resilient). The choice of various foams and how it is layered has a huge impact on how a mattress "sleeps." You can call the design/engineering efforts behind the material selection and application "marketing" all you want, but it makes all the difference in the world. 

The same exact thing holds true for CLD. The design/engineering behind the viscoelastic/damping layer formulation and thickness and to a lesser extent the design of the stiffening layer determine exactly how well a product will perform. It can mean the difference between 25% coverage completely addressing your specific needs and multiple layers at 100% coverage failing to perform. 

But yes, in the end, all CLD is "the same ****."


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## Markous (Aug 31, 2017)

I have 130 sq. ft. (2 layers of 60mil) of Ultimate B-Quiet in my Ranger and it seems to do the job quite well.

It's aboot $3.72/sq ft CAD ($2.80 USD) not including shipping.

It's sold by a retailer up here in Canada about 7-8 hours from where i live which is the biggest selling point to me.

They provide this chart comparing it to dynamat and although i don't totally understand how to interpret the info for the cost it seems relatively comparable to the more expensive option.


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## 04quadcab (Dec 31, 2017)

Hulk2015 said:


> I'm about to buy the *Noico Black 80 Mil 36sq ft pack* but am having a hard time finding anything for* CCF or MLV* on Amazon. What do you guys use from Amazon besides SS? Their LLP is like $76 PER sheet. My friends and family always give me Amazon gift cards for birthdays, Christmas, etc. so that's why I want to use Amazon.


I bought this from Amazon for the same reason that you did. Gift cards from birthdays and Christmas.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...ailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1#customerReviews 

The product arrived damaged. It has also dropped in price since I gave it a 1 star review. I installed the product last week. My truck is quieter. But how much of that was the CLD tiles and how much was due to the MLV? I will never know.

Amazon also sells MLV from TMS. Another forum member recommended them. I should have followed that recommendation.

Another thing to consider, bonding CCF and MLV is a lot of work. For that reason alone it may be worth considering a name brand product from Stinger or Second Skin.

For CLD I used the heavy stuff from KnuKonceptz. I feel that it was overkill for my application. For my next attempt I am going to order CLD from Sonic Electronix just so I can compare.


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## CAudio (Aug 29, 2016)

Buy ~80 Mil CLD from any reputable supplier. Use an absorber glued to the top of the CLD. Put a thin 1/8 MLV barrier on top of that. CLD is only one part of the solution.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

CAudio said:


> Buy ~80 Mil CLD from any reputable supplier. Use an absorber glued to the top of the CLD. Put a thin 1/8 MLV barrier on top of that. CLD is only one part of the solution.


Some "reputable suppliers" produce sub par CLD. And full coverage CLD is absolutely unnecessary for most installations. MLV on the other hand, should be as contiguous as possible. So, doing as you suggested is not the most efficient or effective method to address sound treatment in a vehicle. I have yet to see better recommendation than those provided by Don at Sound Deadener Showdown.


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## CAudio (Aug 29, 2016)

rton20s said:


> Some "reputable suppliers" produce sub par CLD. And full coverage CLD is absolutely unnecessary for most installations. MLV on the other hand, should be as contiguous as possible. So, doing as you suggested is not the most efficient or effective method to address sound treatment in a vehicle. I have yet to see better recommendation than those provided by Don at Sound Deadener Showdown.



Your post is uneducated and pretty funny.

1) Yes, there are some manufacturers that produce sub par CLD. I would consider anything asphalt based to be sub par these days.
There are plenty of reputable manufacturers that produce aluminum+butyl dampers. Buy that in a standard thickness like 2mm-4mm and you will be doing well. 

2) I call BS (respectfully). Efficiency is good if you follow SDS and only apply the material to ~50 percent of the surface area of the panel. Again, this is solely CLD. This does not address noise absorption or barriers.

3) While I am thankful for 2Stubborn2Fail and SDS and what he provides to the community, the "tiles" seem to be nothing more than industry standard size CLD butyl+aluminum sheets cut down to manageable sizes similar to what is used by OEMs on the assembly line.

4) As far as "effective", you are sorely misinformed. If you look at the quietest vehicles manufactured on the road today, premium models from the German car makers who produce the quietest cabins around, all are using a multi-material approach. There is minimal closed cell foam usage, also. To think and state that CLD + closed cell foam is more effective than CLD + sound absorber + MLV is laughable and uninformed as to what science has guided industry and manufacturing towards as solutions for reducing noise levels in modern automobiles. The day SDS receives a contract to supply acoustic solutions to the Maybach, I will pay attention.


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## Hulk2015 (Apr 6, 2015)

From my understanding it is always easier to design quiet components for a car rather than trying to quiet them down afterwards with sound deadener. 

Kind of like a computer case. You can buy one that's already been made to run quiet or you can apply sound deadener to a cheap case afterwards.

Or you can do what I did and buy a quiet case and then apply 6 sheets of damplier pro to it so that you can barely hear it, even after hours of heavy gaming.


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## CAudio (Aug 29, 2016)

Apples to oranges comparison. A computer case operates in a totally different environment...and has totally different needs compared to an automobile or transportation vehicle.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

CAudio said:


> Your post is uneducated and pretty funny.


Not uneducated. But what you find funny is none of my concern.



CAudio said:


> 1) Yes, there are some manufacturers that produce sub par CLD. I would consider anything asphalt based to be sub par these days.
> There are plenty of reputable manufacturers that produce aluminum+butyl dampers. Buy that in a standard thickness like 2mm-4mm and you will be doing well.


I don't have time to hand hold you on this. Go back and look at the testing done by TS2F. If you want to dismiss it entirely, that is your prerogative. It would be foolish to do so. Looking at CLD and saying, "this is the same thickness, it will perform the same" is clearly proven to be untrue by the testing he did. 



CAudio said:


> 2) I call BS (respectfully). Efficiency is good if you follow SDS and only apply the material to ~50 percent of the surface area of the panel. Again, this is solely CLD. This does not address noise absorption or barriers.


Beyond about 25% coverage using single pieces, you are getting into diminishing returns. Can 100% coverage of CLD provide better performance than less coverage of the same product? Absolutely. Will 100% coverage of one product out perform 25% coverage of another. That is entirely up to which to products are being compared. Some yes, some no. It would take a lot more time, effort, money and motivation than TS2F or anyone else has to build a comprehensive database of materials and coverage to provide definitive answers. 



CAudio said:


> 3) While I am thankful for 2Stubborn2Fail and SDS and what he provides to the community, the "tiles" seem to be nothing more than industry standard size CLD butyl+aluminum sheets cut down to manageable sizes similar to what is used by OEMs on the assembly line.


Butyl formulation. Not all CLD is created equal. 



CAudio said:


> 4) As far as "effective", you are sorely misinformed. If you look at the quietest vehicles manufactured on the road today, premium models from the German car makers who produce the quietest cabins around, all are using a multi-material approach. There is minimal closed cell foam usage, also. To think and state that CLD + closed cell foam is more effective than CLD + sound absorber + MLV is laughable and uninformed as to what science has guided industry and manufacturing towards as solutions for reducing noise levels in modern automobiles. The day SDS receives a contract to supply acoustic solutions to the Maybach, I will pay attention.


Each of the components you mentioned have a specific use. Used improperly they will be ineffective. It is just that simple. Who currently holds a contract to supply acoustic solutions to Maybach? 

If there is one thing we know about automobile manufacturers (even at the Maybach level), it is that they only choose the best product for the job. They are never concerned about things like budget, added weight, or consistency within the supply chain. That is why there is never a need to upgrade the stereo system in modern vehicles.


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

Hulk2015 said:


> From my understanding it is always easier to design quiet components for a car rather than trying to quiet them down afterwards with sound deadener.
> 
> Kind of like a computer case. You can buy one that's already been made to run quiet or you can apply sound deadener to a cheap case afterwards.
> 
> Or you can do what I did and buy a quiet case and then apply 6 sheets of damplier pro to it so that you can barely hear it, even after hours of heavy gaming.


Thanks for using Second Skin, did you order the Mod Sheets or full sheets? We would love to see that PC project in our Customer Gallery if you have pictures or video.


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## CAudio (Aug 29, 2016)

rton20s said:


> Not uneducated. But what you find funny is none of my concern.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Your response is funny because it is uninformed. No hand holding needed...I would be led far astray. 
Butyl + Aluminum may have small manufacturing variances but it is a bulk produced consumer commodity produced industrially in many countries.
3M testing, independent of SDS, revealed that full coverage will yield the best possible performance. 3 decibel differences are audible as soon as you drop down to 50% coverage, on average. 
Your statement on what the automotive industry does concerning their selection of the best products for the job is also uninformed. For "average" cars, this is not true and manufacturers seek to leverage production scale to reduce component costs through amortization- they will cut corners to save pennies and will beat up component suppliers on price every step of the way. In the case of Daimler/Mercedes, the S-Class has always been a test bed for the newest technologies they pioneer...technologies that regular car models adopt sometimes 15-20 years after it has initially shown up in the S-Class. This is a car selected by most world leaders and presidents. The development budgets and amount spent on R&D for this one particular model are astronomical. And, you can bet- the cabins are extremely quiet.

In general, I think we can both agree that a multi-material approach is the way to go. But making statements that the best way to reduce cabin noise is to follow the "SDS solution" is a statement not rooted in science or reality. And that is proven on today's automobile manufacturing lines for premium model cars where a quiet cabin is a requirement and major selling point demanded by elite clients.


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