# 2007 Ford F-350 crew cab build



## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

All,

My 2007 Ford F-350 crew cab build.

Components currently selected:
Kenwood DNX-7100 head unit with iPod controller
JL Audio 300/4 special edition (black) amp
JL Audio 500/1 special edition (black) amp
Pioneer TS-SW3041D 12" low-profile sub
Custom ported enclosure behind the rear seat (http://www.spl2k.com/superduty112.html)
Monster Cable 200-series LN interconnects
Monster Cable MPC P300 BAP1000 amplifier power kit
Monster Cable 4-conductor speaker wire

To be selected (will be subject of separate posts):
Front soundstage speakers
Rear fill speakers

Some of the gear:









Head unit, install kit (Metra), and wiring completed:









Using the factory wiring to run to the speakers (molex plugs at the doors). Installed molex plugs at the head unit to connect wires from amps to installation harness (to allow for future removal):









Wiring harnesses connected at the dash, molex plugs for speakers at the center:









Closer look at the RCA interconnects:









Completed head unit (Metra kit was a bit of a disappointment, see uneven gap on the left side of the head unit):









iPod connector in small glovebox adjacent to the steering wheel:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Pioneer low-profile 12" subwoofer. Not being much of a fabricator, I struggled with subwoofer selection for this truck. Clearance behind the rear seat is very limited. This subwoofer and the custom enclosure have received a lot of acclaim at Ford truck enthusiast websites, so I was willing to give it a shot:









Subwoofer in enclosure:









Carpeted panel on truck's back wall needs to be trimmed to fit this enclosure (still trying to decide what to do with vent removed from this location, hence the temporary masking tape):


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

The interior comes out:









Wiring begins. 4-gauge to the far left, ready to run through the firewall. Speaker and amp turn-on lead on the left, interconnects (one 2 channel, one 4 channel) on the right:









The firewall run. Covered the "visible" portion of the wire with flex loom:









Some fabrication required at the firewall on the engine side. Used penetration designed for clutch master cylinder. In 2007, Ford must have cut a few cents by leaving the grommet out of this hole and covering it with a big piece of adhesive heat shield. Installed (bolted and siliconed) a 3x5" piece of polypropylene on the engine side of the firewall, in to which the firewall bushing was installed:









The completed wiring underneath the back seat:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Where I'm at today... designing a rack for underneath the rear seat for the amps. 1/2" MDF cut to mimic the shape of the fold-out tray installed in the truck from the factory. This panel will replace the fold-out tray:









Testing the layout:









Drilled out for the wiring:









I would love to find these (bushings? grommets?) to install in all of the MDF wiring penetrations, but I can't find them anywhere:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Some things for the near future (hopefully this weekend):

Decide on finish for amp rack. Contemplating Line-X or DIY bedliner covering. Will integrate with interior well.
Install amps and wire. All exposed wiring to be flex-loomed.
Install 4-gauge and fuse at battery.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

nice start. Home depot has those grommets in various sizes


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

I found them on the net, just look for snap in bushings!!


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

BigRed said:


> nice start. Home depot has those grommets in various sizes


I will check Home Depot. I looked in the small parts/fastener bins and could not find them. I will also search the web for snap-fit bushings, although these seem to be better suited to sheet metal applications. I'm sure they could be modified to fit.

Thanks.


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## Remo (Oct 25, 2007)

Looks great so far!


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## cheesehead (Mar 20, 2007)

Looking good!

I'm going to be tackling my wife's Silverado this summer. So it's nice to be able to look at everyone's ideas on truck installs. Keep us updated!


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

cheesehead said:


> Looking good!
> 
> I'm going to be tackling my wife's Silverado this summer. So it's nice to be able to look at everyone's ideas on truck installs. Keep us updated!


copycat.


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## cheesehead (Mar 20, 2007)

unpredictableacts said:


> copycat.


Actually I would like to copy you! 

You need to shoot me some pic.s of your silvy installs! Maybe even some blueprints for your center console sub boxes! 

You do great work and I would be privileged to copycat your install!  :blush:


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## monkeyboy (Jun 12, 2007)

Just a suggestion on the front stage. I hated my door locations. I could never get them to sound right.

I have a set of 6.5 inch Q Forms that I could let go of cheap. I never mounted them, just cut the 6.5 inch holes and reinforced them with liquid nails. 

I went with 8's in the floors. If you don't want to cut, this is another option.


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## bjayjr5679 (Nov 8, 2007)

http://www.fastenal.com/ 

has the bushings


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Getting back to business this weekend...

Found the bushings. Like was posted, http://www.fastenal.com has them. Here's where I ended up getting them.

The manufacturer is http://www.heyco.com and they're called "snap bushings", designed to snap in to sheet metal of 1/8 - 1/4" thickness. I had one of the same bushings from the Monster Cable amp wiring kit and tried it in the MDF panel and they hold well. They're made from nylon and available for hole sizes from 1/4" to 6".

Here's the Heyco catalog for the 1/4 - 3/4" sizes (see PDF data sheet within):
http://www.heyco.com/pages/products/section_3/3-01.html

And here's the catalog page for the 13/16 - 6" sizes:
http://www.heyco.com/pages/products/section_3/3-02.html

I purchased them from a site called Mouser Electronics (http://www.mouser.com) at a cost of 10 - 15 cents a piece. Needless to say, shipping was more than the cost of the bushings, but sometimes you gotta just bite the bullet.

I ordered a number of sizes, including 3/16, 9/32, 5/16, 5/8, and 7/8 inner diameter.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

And for the amp rack.

Coated it with flat black Rustoleum during the week (in preparation to be sprayed with textured bedliner coating per the instructions in the Tutorial forum). Here is is sanded down today (bored the holes bigger for the new snap bushings). The sanding was required because the initial coat of Rustoleum lifted the fibers of the MDF a bit. The Rustoleum was used to prime/seal the board and allow the bedliner a better surface to adhere to:









Sprayed some flat black enamel in the holes and on bare spots revealed after the sanding:









Selected the Plasti-Kote spray-on bedliner, available at Walmart for like $7 a can:









Sprayed three light coats a side. One side took one can. I suggest testing out the spray first, the greater the distance from the object being sprayed does produce the most even, textured results.









I will probably grab an additional can and dust each side one more time.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Some more tinkering with the amp rack...

Testing the layout:









And one more layout shot:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Mounted the fuse holder. Chose the driver's side battery for the + connection:









Installed the fuse, flex loomed the 4 gauge, and wired it up (short of making the connection at the battery, of course):


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## brendan 67 (Mar 12, 2007)

Nice job so far dude.Those amps look cool in black.Good luck with the rest.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

*AMP RACK - Part 2*

I was very disappointed with the original amp rack, so I decided to give it another go. I'm not much of a woodworker, but so far I'm much more pleased with the new design. Spent much of the day building this.

The layout, similar to before:









Framed out for the amplifiers:









Test fit, starting the wiring:









Another view:









Wiring this up in the truck is going to be fun:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

After wasting way too much time playing with these amp racks and not really being satisfied with the fit, I scrapped the plans. This weekend, I decided that the amps will be mounted right to the floor of the truck.

Preparing the wiring for a floor mount. The 300/4 ended up under the driver's side of the rear seat. The 500/1 ended up under the passenger's side. The fit on the passenger's side is real tight, especially when you bring the wires in to the mix. I wanted to ensure that the wires were routed neatly, signal and power would not cross, and that the seat rails would not crush the wires once installed. Took a number of hours just to lay it all out:









View from the other side:









Carpet back down, wires fed through:









Fused distribution block installed (last-minute purchase, and the only item I got from Radio Shack). I did not feel comfortable with the un-fused block that came with the Monster amp wiring kit:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Now with the amps installed. 1/4" MDF was inserted between the carpet and the floor such that the amps could be screwed to the MDF and not the floor of the truck. With the seats bolted back down, there is no movement of the amps whatsoever:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

The final connection at the battery:









So far, the only carnage from the install, hairline crack in rear trim (tried hard not to break a thing!):


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## circa40 (Jan 20, 2008)

It looks good. I like the way the amps are mounted better then the previous plan.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

been there done that 

lookin good


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

Nice...

Question, when you say mounted right to floor, is that screwed into the floor pan metal??
The reason I ask is because some amplifiers have an active case, in that the -ve is part of the body/feet/sink etc. You could have a small ground loop issue (=noise)...
but then again maybe not.


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## Lumadar (Sep 28, 2007)

syd-monster said:


> Nice...
> 
> Question, when you say mounted right to floor, is that screwed into the floor pan metal??
> The reason I ask is because some amplifiers have an active case, in that the -ve is part of the body/feet/sink etc. You could have a small ground loop issue (=noise)...
> but then again maybe not.


He mentioned a 1/4 piece of MDF between the amp and the actual floor. He's safe


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## syd-monster (Jan 7, 2008)

Lumadar said:


> He mentioned a 1/4 piece of MDF between the amp and the actual floor. He's safe


Yeah, my bad. My interweb thingy reading skill are officially poor. Thanks


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Yes, MDF between the carpet and the floor. The screws may have punched through the MDF and broken the paint on the floor, but I've not noticed any noise issues (ran the truck around listening last night). Thanks!


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## excelerater (May 23, 2005)

I own the same truck,2006 6.0 version - a few things the Ford did that is not audio friendly are...No room for subs,Slim lines is all your getting in there if you wish to retail a stock appearence
which is the main reason I left mine truck alone ......
For some reason the peeps at ford seem to thing that 5x7 oval speakers are OK to use
I dont see that on many cars (5x7s) and anyone who knows anything about a speaker knows
round is better......I am pretty sure ALL Fords are this way......
So I think the only solution is to cut the door and panel and make an adapter out of MDF
to get a 6.5" comp in there......Anything smaller would be a waste IMO because deisel engines are loud


nice install so far !


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Have not made much progress with the install itself, but selected a set of front components to try out. I will be going with the REF version of the Alpine Type-X 6.5" (SPX-17REF). I'll post my reasons, and perhaps a review, in a separate thread. For now, some more pictures and some questions.

Mid:









Crossover (HUGE, measures 6x4x1.25):









And for the question... Where would you mount this crossover if the door were your only choice? The thing is huge and there's not a lot of room behind the panel except to leave it loose or risk some flex of the panel when it goes back on. The back of the passenger's side panel, for example:









Best spot might be in the upper left of that picture, to the left of the door handle opening (beneath the armrest).

The front of the same panel:


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

when I had passives, I put them below the window switches in that pocket. I don't know how much bigger the alpine crossovers are in comparison to the focal's I had, but there is some room there. I firmly placed them in there with metal straps against the door


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Decided the crossovers will get mounted behind the door panel adjacent to the speaker. Although they don't exactly "fit", they didn't really fit anywhere. The door panel reinstalls securely but flexes out slightly at the location of the crossover. I don't find it objectionable and it actually adds some clearance for the speaker.

Trying to fit the monster crossover:









Where it ended up...held to door panel with screws:









Covered:









Driver's side:









Working on some wiring, adapter to tie in to factory speaker connection (I used the factory wiring to get in to the doors):









Should have speakers installed and wiring complete tomorrow.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Stage setup is going to be tough in this truck.

A-pillar is not an option because the wiring is contained to the door.

Sail panel is not practical because driver's side panel is obstructed significantly by the dashboard.

Looks like door panel, adjacent to or above the factory grille is my only option. Perhaps with the swivel cups for infinite adjustment.

Hmm...


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Gave a shot to installing front components using coaxial bridge supplied by Alpine. Figured it was worth a shot before I started cutting or modifying anything, especially since my most practical option was in the panel adjacent to the speaker anyway. I did lengthen the tweeter wires to allow me to test various placements of the tweeters and to give me the option for future modification.

Four-conductor pigtais for the crossover-to-speaker connections:









Crossover installed, wired up:









Speakers installed, driver's side; molex connector used for quick disconnect of the tweeter:









Passenger's side:









The bridge that comes with the components is designed to angle the tweeter to one of four positions depending on which corner of the speaker it's attached. Due to door panel clearance issues, only one corner was ideal for attachment, but the tweeter positioning was towards the underside of the dash. Some careful twisting of the bridge allowed me to bring the tweeter more on-axis, back towards the driver and passenger seating positions.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

I would try the pillar mounted tweets just as an experiment. For me the staging and depth was much better even with passives in that truck. Just buy some 2 sided tape and run some wiring up there with the tweeter and at least eliminate it from your thought process while you have the panels off. 

Don't be mad at me if you like it


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

BigRed,

I will give it a shot.

I had really hoped the sail panels would work because the wiring process is simplified. Since I used stock wires to get in to the doors to avoid the molex plug at the door boot, I really don't have the ambition to try to take wires back out for the a-pillars. The only location on the sail panels that would have let me recess the tweeter properly was below the top surface of the dash on the driver's side and would have obstructed the tweeter.

I guess I could try my hand at some fiberglassing of the sail panel to put the tweeters right at the top which would clear the dash.

I've also seen 2008 sail panels with a tweeter at the top. I wonder if these are a direct replacement for the 2007 and older trucks?


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## FrankstonCarAudio (Feb 2, 2008)

Could ypu not mount the x-over in behind the dash?.... then use the factory wire into the door for the mid?.... this would then allow you to mount the tweeter to the A-pillar easily.

I would trust Big Red on the tweeter placement... I think with all his testing, he will know better than anybody else!! 

Mark


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## silverdiesel2574 (Feb 22, 2008)

You can also try the 2008 tweeter pods for the doors, thats what I did. I only needed to trim a tab on the top of the door behind the original door trim. I'll post you a pick tomorrow so you can see.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

silverdiesel2574 said:


> You can also try the 2008 tweeter pods for the doors, thats what I did. I only needed to trim a tab on the top of the door behind the original door trim. I'll post you a pick tomorrow so you can see.


Silverdiesel,

A picture would be great, and perhaps one that showed the "trimming" required if possible.

Do you have a part number and cost for these pods?

Were they the pods only or did they include the Ford tweeter?

I think I had found some info on these from another forum but I've not had a lot of luck getting info from the Ford parts dealers.

These may just do the trick, or at least give me something else easy to try.

Thanks!


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

a pillar tweets FTW.............trust me, tried both


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## silverdiesel2574 (Feb 22, 2008)

Here are the tweeter pods I told you about. On Pic 2 you just have to elongate the original holes, not wider just longer.
on pic3 were the wire goes down the hole there was a small tab that need to be trimmed off and thats it. It's hides underneath the new tweeter pod.
I hope this helps.
I also added the 2008 side mirrors a well worth upgrade. 2005 frontend, And 2008 taillight the truck looks great.


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## silverdiesel2574 (Feb 22, 2008)

ANd best of ALL I get to keep my 7.3L Diesel


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

i tried to convince those suckers at ford to give me the 7.3 but they said what goes out must go in. no warranty with any other motor.


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## silverdiesel2574 (Feb 22, 2008)

You know I loved my 2005 F250 Harley Davidson Diesel, But I wish it had the 7.3l
If they would have done more R&D in the 6.0l I think it would have been better than a 7.3l. I know of a guy who's tripped all the unnecessary junk of the 6.0 like the egr its bypassed and stuff like. ARP head studs, thicker head gaskets, None Variable turbo and everytime I got to palm Springs I call him up just to get a joy ride in that thing. Its scary fast. it had me by almost 8 truck lenghts in a few seconds and mines no slug at 40psi.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Silverdiesel,

Thanks again. What you went through looks like more cutting of sheet metal than I was hoping for... I'm going to have to consider this carefully.

Do you happen to have part numbers and prices for these items?

Haven't confirmed it yet, but it looks like a sail panel for a 2007 is $13. I was quoted $42 each for the 2008 sail panels. I'm not sure what justifies the difference in price.

Thanks.


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## silverdiesel2574 (Feb 22, 2008)

I cant remember how much I paid but the only metal you have to cut is about 1/2 in on top and bottom so the sail panel will sit flush with the door panel. it litterally took me and my grinder less than 15 seconds per door.
Well good luck.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Have been in touch with an online Ford parts dealer and the 2008 sail panels are indeed *$40 - $45 each* (whereas the 2007 sail panels are only $13 each). I believe that the 2008 parts that silverdiesel described also include the Ford tweeter and wiring harness and that they don't just come as the panels by themselves.

Buying the 2008 pods can save me a lot of trouble and aggravation in fabrication and experiementation. And with new pods, it's easily reversible if I don't like the outcome. By the same token, $90 can buy a lot of fiberglass and MDF to modify my existing sail panels.

I'll post back with what I decide...

Thanks again, silverdiesel, for all the pictures you provided.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

if you want the best imaging, the pillars are going to be better. I understand you don't want to fab much, so getting the sail panel upgrades seems to be your best bet  good luck with your install


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Silverdiesel,

Got the sail panels today and started the install on the drivers' side. 

I didn't realize from picture 1 that there is a small triangular gap at the front where the sail panel meets the door panel--did you do anything to fill this?

Also, any modifications required to the sail panel other than to remove the Ford tweeter that comes in it? I can't tell if you trimmed the lower tab on the inside.

I'm sure I won't get the imaging Big Red keeps telling me about from the a-pillars  , but I think this is going to do a great job of bringing the stage up.

Thanks.


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## ianbiz (May 13, 2008)

Nice amps!


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## nabot49 (Apr 24, 2008)

I like how it all came out, although I would suggest getting trying a eD slim 10 inch sub...


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

*An update on this weekend's progress...*

Ordered the 2008 Superduty tweeter pods early last week and they arrived on Friday. 

Part numbers were 7C3Z-17K709-DA and 7C3Z-17K709-CA. There are the tweeter pods + tweeter for the 2008 trucks with the nav system and are about $40 each.

I removed the Ford tweeter and installed the Alpine; took some creativity to figure out how to mount it. I experimented with positioning. The are a slight bit off-axis, pointing away and to the front. On-axis was driving the stage to the left considerably, presumably due to the separation between the mid and tweeter and the passive setup.

The Alpine SPX-17REF tweeters are definitely more mellow, even in this position, than I had expected. Everything I've read about these and the PRO tweets implied that they would be a softer sound but I may need to do some EQ on the upper end to brighten them up just a hair. I've left the crossover at 0 db for now, although I might bring it down to -1.5 to better balance them with the mids (this seems to have the added benefit of driving the stage to the right a bit, too).

Hit a major snag this weekend, too. I had always been hearing a buzzing noise from the crossovers that I thought was related to the fact that I had not completed any dampening of the doors. Started the dampening process and found out that it's not really panel vibration causing the crossover buzzing...

The Alpine crossovers actually appear to have something loose within the case. I'm not sure if it's the circuit board which is loose from the case or something (like one of the coils) loose on the circuit board itself. Even unmounted, if I hold it in my hand and tap on the crossover case, I hear the vibration. Moving the crossover away from the mid might help the resonance, but due to the limitations I've put on the wiring and mounting for the crossover, I'm not intending to go that route just yet.

I will plan to get in touch with Alpine tomorrow to see if this is perhaps a defect.

Pictures soon. And I would appreciate any thoughts on the buzzing crossovers.

Thanks.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Another update, just cleaning up...*

Fixed the problem with the crossovers. The circuit board appeared to have been rattling against the case and the tweeter protection bulbs were rattling against the circuit boards. Disassembled the crossovers and added a little bit of vinyl weatherstripping tape which resolved the problem.

Now the rest of my work is just cleanup.

The 2008 Superduty tweeter pods:









With Apline SPX-17REF tweeter installed:









Tweeter pod test fit:









Deadening the doors. I chose to place the deadener stategically and not seal the doors. Superduty pickups have a characteristic problem with scratched glass due to the window seals and since it's only a year old and I've started to notice some scratches, Ford will be in there to replace the glass before the warranty is out.



























Here you can see the cuts required to install the 2008 Superduty tweeter pods:









Reinstalling moisture barrier:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Same for the driver's side:


















Speakers were way too visible through the door panel:


















A little gray grille cloth from Parts Express, hot glued to the inside of the door panel, did the trick. Bought the black too, but with the aluminum cone on the speaker and the transparency of the cloth, it still showed through. It's barely visible with the gray and it blends with the panel very well:


















Can't see through any more!









There was also a hole in the carpet underneath the back seat because I removed the fold-out package shelf to install my amps. Covered the hole neatly with a couple of washers epoxied together and painted flat black. This gets capped by a piece of trim:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Remaining to do is re-install the door panels and find a creative way to fill a gap in the door panel where the new tweeter pod meets the gray panel. It's a small gap that's visible in the pictures silverdiesel posted above, but it's bothering me to know it's there. I posted a separate thread in the fabrication forum to see if there were any ideas for filling it in, but I haven't found a neat one I'm capable of trying. I will post some finished pictures once done.

Thanks for the support and suggestions along the way!


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## Sr SQ (Dec 8, 2006)

Very nice work!


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## piston (Apr 7, 2007)

Looking good. If remember right you can get wiring thru the molex on the doors. It takes time, but do able. Back when I worked at a shop this is the work that I did on super dutys. 

http://auto-essentials.com/installs/ford.aspx

You can actually fit a decent sub behind the back seat, you just have to build it right.

Jason


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Wanted to put together an update on my install.

Some may remember that I was fretting over the cleanliness of the tweeter pods I chose to install to mount my Alpine Type X tweeters. I finally figured out how to get rid of an unsightly gap between the pod and the door panel.

Here is a shot of the "gap" on the drivers' side:









And a shot of the same on the other side:









Separated one of the horizontal supports on the back of the tweeter pod and got creative with a couple of strips of 1/4" MDF:









Now they sit such that they cover up the gap on the door panel:


















The pictures don't do them justice, but I think they look quite finished and the lines blend well with the door panel.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Fabricated some mounts for the Alpine 1" tweets that would use the existing Ford mounting holes on the underside of the tweeter pod. This had the advantage of positioning the tweets a bit more on-axis than the quick-fix setup I had been using. Used 1/8" ABS sheets which scores and snaps very easily to make basic shapes.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

I have been so stuck on the tuning and adjusting at this point. I had no idea that a simple passive setup would be so difficult! I've spent almost every night listening, driving, adjusting, and listening.

Brought the tweeters down -3 db each side; set the levels with pink noise. I had no idea how overwhelming they were until I got them right.

Inverted polarity on the drivers' side tweet in an effort to drive the stage a bit to the center of the dash. Tried inverting polarity on one of the mids; had a great effect on the stage but lost all semblance of midbass. Switching the phase on the tweeter is an attempt to compromise.

Crossed the sub currently at 60 Hz, with the mids at 80 Hz, 12 db/oct. Tweeters and mids are crossed per the passive setup. Brought the midrange down at 1.5 kHz by -1 db and boosted the highs at 12.5 kHz by a couple of db. All bass boost off at the amp, but subsonic filter is on at 30 Hz due to the ported sub setup.

High end is very mellow on these Alpines, almost too mellow for my taste, hence the reason they're boosted up a bit. 

Rear speakers are, for all practical purposes, faded out at the moment.

I'm having a real hard time integrating the sub right now. I had it crossed at 80 Hz and found it overwhelming in the midbass, so I am trying to gap the crossover to alleviate this. I'm finding that I could really use a remote bass level control as I listen to such a variety of music that I cannot leave the sub at one constant level. I've been all over the spectrum with my tuning CDs and find that this is the adjustment I tweak the most. Tried crossing both the sub and mids at closer to 60 Hz, but was concerned about longevity of the Alpines at this setting. 24 db/oct did not seem to be a good slope at any crossover point.

The hardest part about the tuning is that I'm not schooled enough in SQ to determine if things sound good or if I have more work to do. 

If there are any fellow NJ DIYMA'ers who would care to audition their SQ system or assist with the tuning of mine some weeknight or Saturday, it would be appreciated.


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

I just read through all the posts in the thread and looks like some good work on the truck. It really is a shame with such a large cab you would think it would be more installer friendly than it is. Looks like you were able to manage pretty good though. 

Glad to see the part number for the 08 sail panel posted too, I tried in vain for a while to get the part number at my local Ford dealer but they didn't seem to be of any help in finding them. 

I love your wiring work very clean. Makes my wiring look like a 5 year old did it. I am very glad my truck didn't have those pesky molex plugs in the doors though, I was able to fish all my speaker wire in through the door boot, even a large coax cable for my CB antennas that I have mounted up on the mirrors was able to fit through the boot with the end on it and all. 

I think I am pretty much in the same boat as you, trying to tune everything. This is really my first SQ install so I don't know exactly what I am looking/listening for. My dad is pretty well versed as he does the sound for a lot of live concerts and such so I have had him playing some tracks he is very familiar with and doing some tuning. I thought I had it sounding pretty good but seems lately the more I listen to it the worse it is getting lol. 

I wish I could help you more with the tuning but it sounds like you are on the right track and such. As my dad puts it you gotta just keep on turning knobs till you find the right sound. So thats pretty much what I have been doing and fiddling with the tweeter placement. I am starting to think much of my bad sound is coming from not having time alignment as the highs are starting to get really seperated from the mids with the tweeters on axis now. 

Good luck on the rest of the tuning and I hope you can figure it out. You mentioned having more finished pics. I would love to see them if you get the time to post them.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Wow, almost a year since I started this build and I'm still working on it...

I've spent much of the year on tuning. I've posted some other threads about integratin the sub (which has been particularly difficult) and I think I've found the Alpines a bit more mellow than I had originally expected. I did go in to this install in the pursuit of SQ and I think I'm coming out of it realizing that SQ might be a little flat for my tastes. 

In any case, I'm going back and cleaning up some things I missed on the first go-round. This weekend was dampening of the doors and replacing the black plastic adapter plates that came with the Alpine SPX-17REF set with nicer birch adapters.

The old plastic ones:









The custom ones, 1/2" birch ply (a woodworker I am not; used the plastic ones as templates for these, obviously):









Driver's door:


















Passenger's door:


















Hoping that better dampening on the doors gives me the ability to better blend my sub to the front stage.

On tap is to remove the sub and Dynamat the entire back wall of the truck. Also to find a better way to seal up the one-way vent that was removed to make way for the sub (right now it's just covered with a layer of Dynamat, collecting road dirt on the back side).


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

OK, this weekend started version 1.1 of my build.

First thing done: bridge the JL Audio 300/4 amp to 150x2 to power the front speakers. I've had it set up as 75x4, but the rears have been turned so far down that all I've been doing has been wasting the power. I'm committed to no rear speakers now (never invested in them anyway), so the amp was re-wired to support the bridged output. Y-adapters behind the head unit (not pictured) and conversion of speaker wires to L-R only (instead of F-R).










Played it a bit in bridged mode--definitely a noticeable difference in range on the front speakers (Alpine SPX-17REF); they don't sound so much like they're straining when the volume is raised any more. Needed to do some adjustments to the amps to balance things again.

Now the real reason I chose to tear things apart this weekend was to fix some issues I've had since I started the install a year ago.

I've been disappointed with the low end on the system for a while and had been complaining about how the sub was not integrating very well. Where I really noticed the issues was at higher volumes (to be expected--that's where things start to fall apart with clipping, max excursion, etc.). But I was also hearing things that didn't sound like a speaker at its limits.

Looking behind the seat where the sub is mounted, I had been noticing indentation from the sub driver:










You can see the imprint goes beyond the surround and does have some cone in it (Pioneer shallow 12"). I'm pretty sure that some of the "distortion" I've been hearing has been the cone of the sub vibrating against the seat back. Although the box was designed specifically for the truck, I think it's just close enough to be causing problems.

Not quite sure how I'm going to solve this yet, although I'm looking at two things. First would be to shim the back seat mounts up about 1/4", hopefully raising the angle of the seat back enough to get it off the front of the box. Second is to relocate my ground which is placed immediately below the box (because it was a convenient threaded hole for a bolt:










There's still a big body bolt to the right of the ground so I'm not sure if moving the ground will make a huge difference, but it does probably sit 1/8" higher than the body bolt. Plus I liked not having to tap any new holes for ground (no noise evident after a year of listening).

Finally, it's time to figure out what to do with the vent that had to be removed to fit the sub:



















The layer of Dynamat placed over the hole is tacky (both figuratively and literally as the adhesive back side is exposed on the exterior of the truck). It's not showing any signs of water entry like some other have observed, but I'm looking for a more elegant solution. I've got a post in the General forum looking for ideas. 

Beyond this, three other things to do now that the back seat is back out:
1. Deaden the back wall of the truck.
2. Remove the rear speakers completely.
3. Also find a way to silence the other cab vent that buzzes worse than any panel vibration when the bass hits.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

So far, version 1.1 has been a disaster.

I've got about 20 hours in to some rework at the back of the truck that has not yet solved any issues I had previously, and have actually generated some new ones.

I did get the amp bridged. Check.

I started by trying to re-seal one of the cab vents on the back wall of the cab and trying to "silence" the other that was making some awful buzzing noises (see thread in the General forum discussing the same).

First to seal the one cab vent a bit better. After a year, it was clear that the Dynamat applied directly over the approximately 3x5" hole was holding fine. No evidence of water in. 

[









What was bad, though, was the way it was picking up dirt on the adhesive on the exterior. So I cut a piece of ABS approximately the size of the hole, just a little smaller:










Stuck it to the back side of a sheet of Dynamat:










And fit it squarely in the opening. I made sure that there was good butyl adhesive contact right at the edge to allow for a weather-tight seal:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Tried silencing the buzzing that the other vent made, but failed here.

Applied two layers of fabric (bedsheet, as recommended in another thread) over the vent and buried it in the dampener. Hoped this would slow the air flow and muffle any sound the rubber flaps made:










Unfortunately, pressure in the cab got uncomfortably high when the A/C was on its highest fan setting. I think because I removed the one vent, the second one became that much more important. I wasn't comfortable leaving it muffled and took it off, leaving the vent open. I added extra sound deadening around the vent in the hope that panel vibration was causing the flaps to vibrate, but it doesn't take much to get the vent flaps buzzing.

Oh well, can't win 'em all.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Here's where it started to get ugly and where I could have spent my time better doing something else.

One of my other goals of tearing the back of the truck apart was to minimize contact between the sub and the back of my seat. I figured I'd do two things: remove the ground situated under the sub enclosure since I figured it was pushing the sub up, and shim the seat up.

I was real proud of the two new grounds I selected for the amps:



















Spent the next couple of hours getting the seats back in (late on a Saturday night with no one around to help and they didn't "fit" as easy as they did the last time, trying to get them in around the amps).

Apparently, the grounds checked out OK with my DMM when I tested them, but the one on the sub amp just disappeared after I started testing the system. Got the DMM back out and found "open leads" when I re-tested it. Came to realize that the threaded holes I selected were actually rivets in the chassis and were insulated by a small rubber gasket (probably why the ground was intermittently good). Probably the worst ground selection I could have made.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

On top of that, shimming up the seat had another consequence. My amps are mounted through the carpet to a 1/4" MDF sheet under each (to avoid screwing directly in to the floor). Now that the seat is shimmed up about 1/4" in the back (used unistrut washers to shim), the carpet is no longer as taut to the floor and the amps are actually free to rattle.

Unfortunately, the whole back seat needs to come out again to fix the grounds and better secure the amps. And I'm pretty sure I haven't yet gained enough clearance at the seat back to completely keep the fabric off the cone of my sub.

Arrrrgh!


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

One positive so far from the re-work. I had the amps screwed in to the MDF boards with black oxide sheet metal screws. Look what I found under the sub amp:










Yep, that's a hole in the speaker wire to the sub. As careful as I was during the first reassembly, I did pierce the speaker wire. Clearance along the seat track for the sub amp is TIGHT, so I'm surprised this was the only error I had. Amazingly, I pierced it right between the two conductors and never broke the insulation to the conductors themselves.

Replaced the sheet metal screws holding the amps to the MDF with machine screws and nuts.


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## megabutler (Oct 2, 2009)

Awesome documentation! I too have an F-150 albeit a '96 and a regular cab but I too have the 12" Pioneer TS-SW3041d installed. I too have imaging issues because of the placement of the bench seat in relation to the subwoofers excursion. I actually have a 10db increase when I open the doors and crank it, but how practical is that? For what I need it for- day to day drive to work and the occasional Friday night at the drive-in, works perfectly for me. I love it!


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## madweazl (Nov 7, 2010)

Anymore progress? I'm about to start an install in an '06 crew cab so I'm very interested in your progress.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

madweazl said:


> Anymore progress? I'm about to start an install in an '06 crew cab so I'm very interested in your progress.


It's been a while. 

Over the past few months, the F-350 has become a daily driver for me and I've had a lot more time spent listening and adjusting. After four years, I'm still not entirely happy with the system, but I continue to make changes and tweaks. 

I'll share some of my new changes shortly!


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## aj1735 (Feb 27, 2011)

piston said:


> Looking good. If remember right you can get wiring thru the molex on the doors. It takes time, but do able. Back when I worked at a shop this is the work that I did on super dutys.
> 
> Ford Installs | Vehicle Installs ~ Auto Essentials Inc.
> 
> ...


Did you make the tweeter pods yourself or someone else in the shop? Do they sell them? I have spx17pro tweets that I want to put in mine, but I need to make them. I picked up a couple sets of stock covers from the salvage yard but I'm not really good at that stuff. What would you charge to make a set? I could send you my tweets and sail panels. I am going to install it all in a 01 f350 crew cab dually with the 7.3. Let me know. Thanks.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

aj1735 said:


> Did you make the tweeter pods yourself or someone else in the shop? Do they sell them? I have spx17pro tweets that I want to put in mine, but I need to make them. I picked up a couple sets of stock covers from the salvage yard but I'm not really good at that stuff. What would you charge to make a set? I could send you my tweets and sail panels. I am going to install it all in a 01 f350 crew cab dually with the 7.3. Let me know. Thanks.


I suspect you're asking about the pods in the quoted link and not the ones I used (mine are the 08 sail panels with OEM tweeters removed). You may want to email Auto Essentials (in the link) to see what they could do for you.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

So over the past three years since I updated this build, a number of things have changed.

First, at some point I blew the woofers on the Alpine SPX-17REF set. I'm not sure if this was a result of the way I was running them, a function of the aluminum woofer cones, or if they were contacting the door panel when installed:



















I've had an open return authorization with Alpine to send them back and have them looked at, but I never shipped them out. Knowing they are well out of warranty, I didn't think there's anything they would do about it, but I might just ship them anyway since they're no good as they currently stand.

I ended up at one of my local brick and mortar stores looking for replacements and ended up coming across a set of these:










For better or worse, knowing there was a lot of forum popularity around these speakers when they were first introduced, I figured I'd give them a shot. They were BNIB, heavily discounted, and probably the last pair available in New Jersey.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

I also built new speaker baffles (poly cutting boards do work well and are easy to cut with a jigsaw). In addition, I sealed and deadened my front doors heavily. Sealing required I cut three pieces of sheet aluminum in the approximate size of the hole, deaden them, and then screw them in to the door (using vinyl weatherstrip tape to seal beneath):























































Couldn't do much more than this because the door panel hooks in through the remaining open holes.


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## aj1735 (Feb 27, 2011)

How do you like it all now? Did it make a big difference with the front doors sealed tighter? I am getting ready to do my install soon now. I just made some tweeter pods in my sail panels that I think turned out pretty nice looking. I hope that they will sound ok. They ended up pointing about head high right between the front seats. I hope I can do some eq adjustments to make them sound good. I will be using alpine spx17pro components run active off a jl 450/4 and 2 JL 8w3v3's run off of a jl 1000/1 turned down of course lol. I am thinking about using my jl 300/4 bridged to run my alpine type r coax for rear fill. I will be using them more for movies. I have a Alpine d310 headunit with a h701 processor with plenty of adjustments to confuse me. I also have a ixos 5 farad cap that will work as my distribution blocks also. Let me know if you have any tips for me before I get started. It's going in a 01 f350 crew cab dually. Great build though.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

aj1735 said:


> How do you like it all now? Did it make a big difference with the front doors sealed tighter? I am getting ready to do my install soon now. I just made some tweeter pods in my sail panels that I think turned out pretty nice looking. I hope that they will sound ok. They ended up pointing about head high right between the front seats. I hope I can do some eq adjustments to make them sound good. I will be using alpine spx17pro components run active off a jl 450/4 and 2 JL 8w3v3's run off of a jl 1000/1 turned down of course lol. I am thinking about using my jl 300/4 bridged to run my alpine type r coax for rear fill. I will be using them more for movies. I have a Alpine d310 headunit with a h701 processor with plenty of adjustments to confuse me. I also have a ixos 5 farad cap that will work as my distribution blocks also. Let me know if you have any tips for me before I get started. It's going in a 01 f350 crew cab dually. Great build though.


(I know I'm a little overdue in replying).

It gets a little bit better every day, but still not sounding the way I want it to. Honestly, I know everyone swears by the need to seal and deaden their doors, but I noticed only a marginal improvement in midbass after I completed the work. Maybe I didn't seal and deaden enough to get the benefit.

It was a lot of work and a lot of additional screw holes in the door and I'm 
not sure it was worth it in the end for me. But it is hard to judge since I can't easily compare before and after...

Let me know more about your tweeter pods, thinking I need to try something different for tweeter positioning myself.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

So I'm working on some more changes to my build, version 1.2 if you will.

I've recently added a JBL MS-8 DSP to the setup (temporarily installed; permanent install and pics pending) for some EQ and auto-EQ that I didn't have with the original setup.

I'm still having a little trouble getting it just the way I like it. The biggest issue is in the transition between sub-bass and mid-bass. I can't place my finger on it, but something just isn't _right_...

On my plate are the following two things that I'd still like to try:

I've never been overly impressed with the subwoofer that I chose. The ported design really didn't sound good - major peak around 50 - 60 Hz that really made integration tough. I've since plugged the port and am running it sealed. Sound is a lot better, but WinISD tells me the Pioneer shallow is on borrowed time with the power I'm running and what I'm demanding of it. I'd really like to pick up a better slim sub to put in the same location behind the seat. I've heard great things about the JL 13TW5 and Apline SWR-T12, but have been looking for a second-hand one in case the improvement isn't what I expect (I won't feel like I dumped a ton of additional cash in to the system - especially with the price of the JL). Both would require a new enclosure be built, which is something I didn't have the capability to do 5 years ago when I started this build, but which I'd try now. My concern with replacing the sub is that I also think I've been chasing weak mid-bass up front and a new sub isn't going to solve that, so I'm trying to make sure the money will be well spent.
I'd also like to eliminate the 2008 - 2010 sail panel/tweeter pods that I installed. Tweeter positioning is fixed and not ideal; plus, they're playing behind a plastic perforated grille that I think is diminishing some of the high end of the frequency response (confirmed by ear and measurement). They also haven't held up very well; two of the clips are broken and I need to hot glue them back in place every time I take them off. I'd like to try my hand at making some custom pods in the stock sail panels that I removed.

Stay tuned!


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Nice install. I found it interesting that I also have the same 720PRS component set in my '03 F150 and I found them in a "hole in the wall" stereo shop. I know the front doors of our trucks are different design but I had an issue with the driver side speaker hitting against the back of the door panel. I never noticed it till I turned the volume up a bit. I had to make a standoff to push the panel away from the speaker. Luckily I found this before any damage was done. Looking forward to seeing the progress.


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

bigbubba said:


> Nice install. I found it interesting that I also have the same 720PRS component set in my '03 F150 and I found them in a "hole in the wall" stereo shop. I know the front doors of our trucks are different design but I had an issue with the driver side speaker hitting against the back of the door panel. I never noticed it till I turned the volume up a bit. I had to make a standoff to push the panel away from the speaker. Luckily I found this before any damage was done. Looking forward to seeing the progress.


Thanks bigbubba. I think I might have been having that problem when I had the Alpines in the doors (see the damage pics a page or so back). I'm not sure if it still persists with the Pioneers. One thing I did when I installed the PRS set was to locate the crossover on the door such that it pushes the panel away from the speaker significantly (almost too much - it's a bear to get the panel to lock down now). I've not noticed anything sounding funny, but I've often wondered if my underwhelming midbass could be a result of the speaker contacting the door panel.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

I had my speakers installed for just over a week before I heard the problem. I had not pushed the speakers very hard at all at that point. I was competing in my first MECA contest and the judge cranked her up during a clinic and we started hearing this loud popping from the door. At first we thought it was the tweeter. When I got home that night and pulled the panel off, about a quarter of the surround was pushed in the opposite direction and I could see the impression of the speaker basket in the sound deadener on the back of the door panel. Looking through the speaker grill it looked like it had plenty of space.


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## aj1735 (Feb 27, 2011)

mooch91 said:


> Thanks bigbubba. I think I might have been having that problem when I had the Alpines in the doors (see the damage pics a page or so back). I'm not sure if it still persists with the Pioneers. One thing I did when I installed the PRS set was to locate the crossover on the door such that it pushes the panel away from the speaker significantly (almost too much - it's a bear to get the panel to lock down now). I've not noticed anything sounding funny, but I've often wondered if my underwhelming midbass could be a result of the speaker contacting the door panel.


Here are some of pics of my pods that I made for my 01 f350. I had never done it before and they ended up I think pretty good. I used pvc and lots of sanding and bondo and texture. I have to make some new ones for my new set of focal k2 165's that I just picked up to replace my Alpine spx17pro's. I think mooch91 and myself would benefit from any tips from anyone that has had experience from doing this before. I don't know if I made them in the best way. 

I have back pics also but my computer is being stupid. LOL 

Sorry to highjack the thread for a minute but we all can use some more hands on tips. Thanks

Can't wait to hear more updates about your build. Thanks for sharing.


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## chevyrider96 (Mar 5, 2010)

Nice build. Amps look better the way they are now for sure. I've got the dnx7120 and the iPod control freezes up after a few mins. Apparently it's a common issue with these units


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Latest update...

So the MS-8 hasn't been working out for me. The T/A and auto-EQ was doing some very funny things to the sound quality from my system. My driver's midbass was being over-driven compared to the passenger side; the sub-to-midbass transition wasn't improving. Highs were getting all cut out. I worked quite a bit with Andy W to try to get it working better, but just couldn't. I don't blame the MS-8, I think it's more a function of my system.

The one thing that did work well on the MS-8 was the 31-band manual EQ. I was actually able to smooth out my frequency response and get the sound I have been looking for just by using the EQ. I've decided I can do without some of the perfect imaging as long as I've got good tonality.

I have a 1/3-octave EQ on order that I will be installing at some point in the near future.

Stay tuned for pics of some other changes...


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

I finally decided to ditch the Pioneer TS-SW3041D shallow subwoofer. I'm sure this is a competent subwoofer for someone with limited space and 200 watts, but it just wasn't cutting it in my truck with the 500/1 JL tied to it.

So I searched for either a used Alpine SWR-T12 or JL 13TW5. Ended up finding the JL used right here on DIYMA and tried my hand at my first enclosure build. Actually had a friend do the cuts for me since I couldn't get the hang of the table saw (I designed it and calculated dimensions/angles, he cut; too much fear on my part at controlling the saw).

I spent a lot of time measuring behind the rear seat to ensure there would be no contact between the sub and the back of the seat. The SPL2K enclosure and Pioneer sub always made a little bit of contact. So I shortened the top depth of the wedge enclosure to make sure it would angle back further. I got exactly 0.852 cu ft (-0.052 for the sub displacement = 0.8 cu ft) which matches JL's spec exactly.

The sub itself, came in great condition:









New enclosure (foreground) vs. old enclosure (background, carpeted):









Test fitting the speaker for the right positioning:









Although I pre-drilled everything, I ended up delaminating the front panel when I started the speaker screws:









Nothing a couple of strategically places coarse-thread screws and some glue couldn't fix:









Filled the repair screw holes:









Used brass threaded inserts (10-24 machine thread, available at Lowes) to secure the speaker:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

All joints were made with Titebond II wood glue and some 1.25" brads. Front panel was done in the same way with some screws added for additional clamping. Joints were pretty tight but I ran a good bead of silicone around the inside perimeter just to be sure.

Final outcome, before sanding:




































Test fit in the truck:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

I sanded off all the overhang with a Porter-Cable variable speed random orbital and 80 - 220 paper. It's nice and smooth with sharp edges.

In place of carpeting, I am planning to take it to Line-X today to have it sprayed. I'm afraid I would hack the carpeting up ; at least I know I can get a professional finish with the Line-X instantly. And the Line-X should stabilize the corners and edges that are subject to damage if the 3/4" MDF gets bumped.

Stay tuned, final pics to come soon...


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

In case it helps anyone, the schematics and calcs for my sub box build are attached:


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Sent my new enclosure out to Line-X to be coated. Took a little longer (1 week) and was a little more expensive than I had expected. Also, I wasn't completely specific about how I wanted it taped, so they sprayed inside the terminal cup opening and also coated my stainless machine screws which I left in place so the threaded inserts wouldn't get coated.

Here are some pictures after coating:













































The Line-X folks told me that silicone is a no-no for sealing to the coated surface. They recommended a urethane sealant which is what I used to seal the terminal cup in place. I'm waiting for that to dry - the one I used has a lot of toluene and xylene which I wouldn't want trapped inside the box as I think it could cause issues with the speaker eventually.

I'll post final pics as soon as I have it assembled.


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## aj1735 (Feb 27, 2011)

How does the new jl sub sound?


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## mooch91 (Apr 6, 2008)

Damn Webshots! Am I the only one that got burned when they converted to the new "Smile" photo hosting service? I've lost so many pictures and links to them in my forum posts that I don't even know where to begin to restore it all. And this one was my favorite. Crap!


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## aj1735 (Feb 27, 2011)

So how do you like the jl sub?


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## suzi427 (Oct 6, 2011)

awesome!


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## aj1735 (Feb 27, 2011)

Have you used a lot of others to compare to? I have never heard one before so I don't really know what to compare them to. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks


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