# Had a few drinks last night and made an impulse buy...



## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

I wanted to make a new sub for home system since my Velodyne 10" servo sub took a crap.

I got a "Dayton Audio DCS450-4 18" Classic Subwoofer 4 Ohm" that I plan on putting in a 24" x 5' sonotube tuned @ 20hz.

I've got a Forte Model 3 Threshold amp. I read I can bridge it to produce 400 watts at 4 ohms. I just need a preamp for it.

Can anyone recommend something that wont break the bank?

I've got a Denon AVR-5600 as a tuner. I wish I could find the manual/remote for it. I could probably use it as the preamp. I've no idea how to set this thing up since I remember it having a TV menu to set everything up. That was like 15 years ago.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

Did you have a few drinks tonight also?


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

Very helpful.


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

Ok (not drinking). Things are so much easier now. I haven't done this in a long time. I just saw at parts express there are subwoofer plate amps with crossovers, gains, etc. built in.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

I was actually just kidding man about the drinking. So you are looking for an inexpensive amp?. I would try shopgoodwill.com, sometimes they have some pretty decent equipment for super cheap.


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

I have an amp thats overkill. The Threshold is an awesome amp. I was looking for something to interface between the Denon and the Threshold to use for a crossover/ gain setting, and maybe an EQ. I remember some old school preamp my dad gave me in a setup I had that had a 5 band EQ built in. They were big sliders. It had a gain knob and a lot of other stuff that I was told not to touch. That was 25 years ago. I'm still using stuff he gave me 20+ years ago.

I might just go with one of the Dayton plate amps though. 

Something like this

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-804


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Just a guess, but someone who reads here at the very least likes the plate amp 



> I recieved this amp thru a replacement of my SA100 via parts express' amazing customer service. All I can say is wow! In terms of power, you get what you paid for. It drives my 12" Diyma R12 subwoofer quite well in a ported enclosure. Rattles the cabinets in my apartment! It sounds very nice as well and the auto on/off feature works surprisingly well. Definitely a great buy!


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## illcrx (Nov 11, 2010)

So if you have the Denon, what are you running the rest of the system with now? If you have the amp and the Denon then your set? I am confused on what you need. 

If its the manual to set it up you shouldnt need the video if you do just take an RCA from the yellow out on the back of it to the yellow input on the front of your TV to set it up. You have what you need.


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## Manic1! (May 17, 2011)

Look at a Mini dsp. Home | miniDSP


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

illcrx said:


> So if you have the Denon, what are you running the rest of the system with now? If you have the amp and the Denon then your set? I am confused on what you need.
> 
> If its the manual to set it up you shouldnt need the video if you do just take an RCA from the yellow out on the back of it to the yellow input on the front of your TV to set it up. You have what you need.


The Denon runs my front rear and center channels. I had a powered sub hooked up and it died. I have plenty of room for something big so I figured I'd build something reasonably cheap. If I get the Dayton plate amp my total cost of everything(including materials to build the enclosure) is under $350, and if I build the enclosure correctly I can get the same performance of a multi thousand dollar powered sub. I was just looking for a way to use the Forte Threshold amp. It's just been sitting here. The Dayton looks to be the least complicated way.



Oliver said:


> Just a guess, but someone who reads here at the very least likes the plate amp


Thank You



Manic1! said:


> Look at a Mini dsp. Home | miniDSP


Very cool product. I may look into that if I need extra EQ for the sub. 


I've been reading up on it a bit more and I'm going with the plate amp. Everything is built in and I like the idea of the auto on/off so I don't have to go over and throw the switch every time I turn the stereo on. I'm gonna sell this Forte. I'll definately keep the mini DSP in mind if I need to EQ the sub. I'm not too picky and I'm a basshead so I may be able to get away without it. The Denons also a great unit. I wouldn't be surprised if there's plenty of tweaking I can do to the sub channel through it. I'm still trying to hunt down the manual online before I go digging through boxes downstairs for it.

Thanks for the ideas. It sure wont look pretty, but it sure will be massive. I've always wanted a 5 foot tall subwoofer hehe. Winisd says this thing wants 16+ cubic feet.


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## Manic1! (May 17, 2011)

Your AV receiver will have a HF cut off and the plate amp should do the rest. How are you going to mount it to the sonotube?


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## cyrusthevirus23 (Feb 16, 2013)

drinking and spending always leads to good things lol


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

Manic1! said:


> Your AV receiver will have a HF cut off and the plate amp should do the rest. *How are you going to mount it to the sonotube*?


I haven't gotten that far, but I will probably make the bottom a little larger on one side and build an L shaped place to mount it vertically. I just got a Kreg pocket hole guide so that will be simple to make an L with a couple triangle wedges for support. I'm all about function over form. That should be obvious as this sub will stand nearly 6 feet tall when complete. I'll worry about how it looks after I'm done, but you can probably bet $texas that it will look like an unfinished sonotube sitting in my corner for 6 months. No GF at the moment to tell me how bad it looks


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Sonotube Subwoofer Push Pull 10" MTX Jack Hammers - YouTube

Sonotube sub box - JL 13" sub - YouTube

sono tube 2 ohm jbl 804 - YouTube

Something will come to you


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm thinking of starting this tomorrow, but I was hoping I could get some feedback and help with modeling my enclosure.

As I mentioned I'm a basshead and I also only know enough to make me dangerous. 

WinISD came up with a 16.30 cubic foot box tuned at 21.30 Hz. I'm not sure how to add filters(or if I'm able) since I can only find tutorials for winisd pro.

Does this look like it will work ok? I'd like to tune lower for sub bass, but when I plug in lower numbers I get a sharp drop under 30 Hz. I'm pretty sure this is because I don't have any low pass filter. I plan on running one of the Dayton plate amps. It outputs @250 RMS. I will also low pass it around 50Hz.



I keep reading about people tuning these sonotube subs as low as 14Hz. I don't have any issue with a HUGE enclosure if that's all it takes. Hell...16 cubic feet is already huge so what's a few more cubes, right?

If anyone has the time to check this out and make any recommendations(or at least to point me in the right direction to educate myself) I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

EDIT: Downloading Pro now...for some reason I thought it was pay only. I'm gonna give it another shot.


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

OK. I've updated and messed with some settings.


17 cube box ported to 20 Hz. 150 watts applied. High pass at 20 hz/12 DB. Low pass 65 hz/24 db. Seems to give me a decent curve without over excursion.

Does that make sense? 

It still drops off pretty fast. I'm wondering what I can do to get it to go a bit lower.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

The trade-off, is faster drop for ported designs


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

Guess I can't expect too much from it. I may have picked the wrong driver to go flat to 14 Hz. I've tweaked it a bit and I'm pretty happy. 

Thanks for the feedback. 

On an unrelated note, I just got done laying ccf in the rear seats of my mustang. 

I was all gung-ho in getting it all laying nice and smooth, but with all those contours and me being 6'4", I just ended up cutting strips and getting it laying flat. It looks like a black quilt back there  

Being tall and installing stereos in cars does NOT mix. I'm so glad I lost all the weight or I would've thrown my back out.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

MUGWUMP said:


> OK.
> 17 cube box ported to 20 Hz.
> *I'm wondering what I can do to get it to go a bit lower.*


"Lengthen" the port for a 14 Hz tuning.


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

cyrusthevirus23 said:


> drinking and spending always leads to good things lol


I'm so glad I made this impulse buy. I just got it all done except final finishing and I'm impressed. All this sound from 100 watts. I guess the tradeoff is the 8'5" tall by 24" round cylinder in the corner of the room. I'm hearing stuff I never knew existed in a lot of my music. I'm looking for the power supply for my laptop and then ill take some measurements. I def hear a peak somewhere below 30 hz.

Here's a list of expenses...


Dayton 18" Classic Subwoofer -$125 Dayton Audio DCS450-4 18" Classic Subwoofer 4 Ohm | 295-475

Dayton Audio SA100 100W Subwoofer Plate Amplifier-$100($90 now) Dayton Audio SA100 100W Subwoofer Amplifier | 300-802

Dual-Ended Gold Binding Post Speaker Terminal Pair -$8 Dual-Ended Gold Terminal Pair | 091-1154

MDF- $35

24" Sonotube- 8$/ft local x 8 feet- $64

6" Sonoture for port- 1 foot. Free from same local concrete yard

1.5" hardwood dowel- $5

wood glue+ liquid nails- $5

$342 all in. This blows away the 10" Velodyne servo sub that it replaced.

I went for 23.4 cubic feet tuned to 18 hz. I'm gonna run some tones to see how close I got on the tuning.

EDIT: Tuning is 18-19 Hz. I'm pretty stoked. This sucker has output down into the single digits. Walls are shaking


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

pictures please


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

miniSQ said:


> pictures please


I was going to wait till I was done with the cover, but what the hell.

Why not.

These are super awesome cellphone shots. If anyone can tell me how to get my Motorola photon to take better pics I'm all ears  Light may have something to do with it.







I figured if I didn't attach the bottom plate and left it in the middle of the room I'd get around to making it look nice instead of leaving a concrete form in the corner of the room .


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

RTA shows flat from 18 hz (port tuning) to 80 hz with a 10 db spike at 35 hz. It could be the room or maybe how it's sitting. I'll know more next week when it's in its intended spot.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

This would worth the $350 just to piss off my neighbors with there damn music at 3am waking up my 5 month old.

Out thump that sucka


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

99% Done. I ran out of paint so the legs aren't done. I can always wrap some black vinyl on them later. I wraped it in felt then a black spandex sock. Looks pretty sweet. 

I learned how to sew. What a complete PITA. Probably took me 3 hours to just do that.


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## PsyCLown (May 17, 2013)

Very nice!!

So what about that 35Hz bump?
I am thinking I should consider something like this perhaps.


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm rearranging my whole room to accommodate the new tower speakers my dad got me for Christmas. They're the best present I've ever gotten. They're so nice, I can't stand to have them in the configuration they're in now. It just doesn't do them justice. They're Golden Ear Triton 2s. Yea, I'm blown away. I'm coming from 25 year old Vandersteen model 1s. I thought those were nice.

I was going to wait to measure everything, but I suppose I could check just the sub real quick. I'll get something before morning.


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

It looks a little better. No more than 5 db variance. I'm really happy with it.


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