# Dayton DCS450-4 Classic 18" IB or not



## Diru (May 23, 2006)

Dayton DCS450-4 Classic 18"


IB or not to IB this is the question



http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-475&CFID=11624544&CFTOKEN=49559587

Specificaitons: *Power handling: 300 watts RMS/450 watts max *VCdia: 3" *Le: 2.96 mH *Impedance: 4 ohms *Re: 3.2 ohms *Frequency range: 22-500 Hz *Fs: 22 Hz *SPL: 94 dB 2.83V/1m *Vas: 13.77 cu. ft. *Qms: 6.51 *Qes: .47 *Qts: .44 *Xmax: 8.25 mm *Dimensions: A: 18", B: 17", C: 6-7/8".


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## thylantyr (Jan 21, 2008)

WinISD and model it.  to see if you like the ~predicted 
performance. Just model as a huge sealed box, lol..
Check the excursion graphs vs. power input, etc.

IB's are nice when you have many woofers, but every design
has pros/cons [sealed, ported, pr, ib, etc]


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## Tommythecat (Apr 6, 2006)

Have you got/bought it already?

Go drive up to Mach 5 Audio and get those 18's. Almost twice the xmax, a bit, cheaper.


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## Ga foo 88 (Dec 18, 2005)

Look into the rl-p18 or check out the ae IB 15 at aespeakers.com....


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## Robert_J (Nov 9, 2006)

And Fi Car Audio has some home IB subs in both 15" and 18" versions. Check out the Fi section at Home Theater Shack.

-Robert


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=536


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## Neil (Dec 9, 2005)

The Classic is a fine driver but I feel it is bested by the MJ-18. The MJ-18 can be had for $116 including shipping to anywhere in North America and would be preferred, in my opinion.

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=52

There are several other contenders if you bump your budget up a bit further after that.


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

Well ok heres the deal, The other thread , the one with the 8 tit mkiii 15s. it for that guy. 

The 2 EV cabs he has, he has damaged the VC on 3 out of 4 drivers. At this time the EV180s are gong to cost him $535 per driver new.

Hes got the bank to do this project and I want to be right on the money with IB or even ported/sealed cabs. but as you might relize the EV are done -3db @ 36hz.

So the key is I need to make at the a min of 135db down to 20hz or lower. 

The guy it nutz but hey so am I.

rl18 ehhhh, I looky

ok I lookied and Chad wins



chad said:


> http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=536


Nice


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

How the hell did he tear up 3 of 4 EVX180's?  Them's good drivers!

Running them LFE in a cab tuned a wee bit too high for such a thing?

EV ccan recone them affordably and fast. Recone and sell them to recoup some loss.


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

chad said:


> Running them LFE in a cab tuned a wee bit too high for such a thing?


Yepp, him thar gots tu of them thar cabs

EV_QRx_218S_EDS

http://www.electrovoice.com/products/194.html

burnd em up real good


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

What a shame, yes, they are tuned too high, I would suspect 35-40 cycles, but they will BEAT YOUR ASS for live performance. I'd love to have a pair for the right price.... working... but the right price... right now... is pretty low 

Again EVX 180's are good drivers. I have one in my studio for sub duty... but it's tuned L-O-W....


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

chad said:


> What a shame, yes, they are tuned too high, I would suspect 35-40 cycles, but they will BEAT YOUR ASS for live performance. I'd love to have a pair for the right price.... working... but the right price... right now... is pretty low
> 
> Again EVX 180's are good drivers. I have one in my studio for sub duty... but it's tuned L-O-W....



Did you look at the link , it has the EV pdf for the model cab that is used.


Yes tuned way to high to be theater sub, even tuned low the output level is going to go down a ton just to keep the driver from smashing itself into pieces.

This guy want loud and clear, but maybe not clean. Kind of sad, but I will try to school 'em.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I play mine ugly loud in a low tuned enclosure with nary a wimper.

Wanna donate them to a rock band? 

Chad


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

chad said:


> I play mine ugly loud in a low tuned enclosure with nary a wimper.
> 
> Wanna donate them to a rock band?
> 
> Chad


LMAO, I would, but you know this guy is going to be a hard sell. Plus every thing he has at this time is the best gear on the planet to him. So if he goes for it, he might keep the EV or try and get me to take them as some kind of trade off[NOT] or he will want to much for them.

I will keep this in mind when the day comes.

Hell I got 2 EV X-array cn[?] cabs I took in as part trade in and never used them. Still got those too. Got a need for those. It the price is right I'll even deliver them to you {chad only}, cause thats the farthest I am will to drive from minnesota, unles you are in minnesota and want them too, but you going to thave to work that out with the Chadster.

Anyways


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Diru said:


> LMAO, I would, but you know this guy is going to be a hard sell. Plus every thing he has at this time is the best gear on the planet to him. So if he goes for it, he might keep the EV or try and get me to take them as some kind of trade off[NOT] or he will want to much for them.
> 
> I will keep this in mind when the day comes.
> 
> ...


The Xcn's don't suck, I use them a lot for infill/downfill from the Xn's and Xf's But I don't have a good use for them but know someone who might  He's got a whole big ass X-Arry rig and is always looking to add.

Hook him up with these subs if he thinks his **** don't stink  You can't tear them up, they will protect themselves, even with a sliding HPF!

http://www.meyersound.com/products/concertseries/700hp/

Chad


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

chad said:


> The Xcn's don't suck, I use them a lot for infill/downfill from the Xn's and Xf's But I don't have a good use for them but know someone who might  He's got a whole big ass X-Arry rig and is always looking to add.
> 
> Hook him up with these subs if he thinks his **** don't stink  You can't tear them up, they will protect themselves, even with a sliding HPF!
> 
> ...



LMAO!!!!!

His theater room is only 16x22, you think that would be enough



The Xarray cabs, you tell me whats these are worth to him. I do know these were spendy cabs, but I'm not looking for hugh dough for them, just a fair price. Oh, these were pulled out of a school driven by a crown 402 amp I think, with filted low and high. so other then the marks on the cabs from flying them. litely used


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I'll give him a holla, he sometimes parks them on those QRX duals for litle corporate things.

FWIW I LOVE the X-Array rigging, just love it!

The Meyer sub is what Mythbusters used to try to find the Brown Note, ****, it's just a dual 18, replace his 2 EV's with 2 of those and call it a day. I broke the front window in my house with one of them 

Chad


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

What kind of amplification are you going to use to power these subs?

Are you sure that blowing those subs wasn't user error? A quad of those drivers can produce close to 140db's and you're talking about a fairly small room to pressurize. Unless this guys is partially deaf something doesn't seem quite right... 

Consider the B&C 18TBX100 or the Dayton PF460-8 for a bit less money.

Leo


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

300Z said:


> What kind of amplification are you going to use to power these subs?
> 
> Are you sure that blowing those subs wasn't user error? A quad of those drivers can produce close to 140db's and you're talking about a fairly small room to pressurize. Unless this guys is partially deaf something doesn't seem quite right...
> 
> ...


He was probably trying to go stupid low with them. They are tuned for live use and efficiency. 6 pack says they weren't packed together either 

Right along with the ******* that comes to me and says "How many watts ya a pooshin, DAMN that would sound good in my livin' room"... Not exactly. Wrong enclosure for the wrong gig and when you unload one being silly it ain't cheap.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

chad said:


> He was probably trying to go stupid low with them. They are tuned for live use and efficiency. 6 pack says they weren't packed together either
> 
> Right along with the ******* that comes to me and says "How many watts ya a pooshin, DAMN that would sound good in my livin' room"... Not exactly. Wrong enclosure for the wrong gig and when you unload one being silly it ain't cheap.


True. I guess it just amazes me how one can not notice when the driver is being overdriven to the point of destruction... Sad, those EV are really nice drivers.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

300Z said:


> True. I guess it just amazes me how one can not notice when the driver is being overdriven to the point of destruction... Sad, those EV are really nice drivers.


They are great drivrs and give PLenTY of warning when they are unhappy, from great distances  

Sheesh... audiophiles


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

chad said:


> Sheesh... audiophiles


lol


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

chad said:


> Sheesh... audiophiles



Now your are calling him an audiophile, shame on you. 

I think this guy gets off on paper and spec. Hense B&W plus Crown , this should have never been done.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Diru said:


> Now your are calling him an audiophile, shame on you.
> 
> I think this guy gets off on paper and spec. Hense B&W plus Crown , this should have never been done.


Why not? I bet the K series drives them quite nicely


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

chad said:


> Why not? I bet the K series drives them quite nicely


I'll slap the **** out a yea. 

Drive them very much yes, make my toes curle, not so much.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Oh, I seeeeeee. It's not "hi-endy enough"

Now I'll slap the **** out of ya 

Chad


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

I signed up at the cult of IB, and from what I gathereed over there was interesting.

This Dayton 18" will work in IB and at least 3-4db slp over the other drivers found, though might not be able to displace as much as some, it still looks good for the price. A little EQ to dail it in.

It would seem to be the thing, EQing the IB. I need to play with the numbers some more.

More later..........


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Diru said:


> I signed up at the cult of IB, and from what I gathereed over there was interesting.
> 
> This Dayton 18" will work in IB and at least 3-4db slp over the other drivers found, though might not be able to displace as much as some, it still looks good for the price. A little EQ to dail it in.
> 
> ...


What Dayton 18?


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

chad said:


> What Dayton 18?


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-475&CFID=11624544&CFTOKEN=49559587


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Dude, he shredded 3 of 4 EVX180's. Those Dayton's would not even be an appetizer for him


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

chad said:


> Dude, he shredded 3 of 4 EVX180's. Those Dayton's would not even be an appetizer for him


lmao yeah but there is going to be 8x18s, plus proper filters


Hey Chad you listen to that dvd audio rip? what you think


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

chad said:


> What Dayton 18?


The Dayton PF460-8 that I linked earlier maybe? 

Leo


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

300Z said:


> The Dayton PF460-8 that I linked earlier maybe?
> 
> Leo



NO this one

Dayton DCS450-4 Classic 18" Subwoofer 4 Ohm 295-475


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-475&CFID=11624544&CFTOKEN=49559587


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-396

Higher Qts, power handling to boot.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

In that case I agree with Chad.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

chad said:


> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-396
> 
> Higher Qts, power handling to boot.


Are you still talking about home theater infinite baffle?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

evan said:


> Are you still talking about home theater infinite baffle?


Yup.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

chad said:


> Yup.


Down to 15Hz?


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

chad said:


> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-396
> 
> Higher Qts, power handling to boot.





300Z said:


> In that case I agree with Chad.





evan said:


> Are you still talking about home theater infinite baffle?



Damnit. I'm going to need a better speaker proggy then this silly ISD[yes it does work well for what it is, so no flame`n]

yes higher power and a slight qts, but not so much so that it betters the dayton 18. 

I need to find something to model Xmax. It looks like the Sel 18 is going to need more forced EQing over the Day 18. The Sel 18 is going to run out of Xmax well before the Day 18 after EQing the curve.

Or I could be wrong


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

evan said:


> Down to 15Hz?


I dunno his goals, 15 seems silly to me, although he DID nuke 2 EV pro audio cabs of good quality using great drivers trying to... hell I don't know... remove wallpaper?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Diru said:


> Damnit. I'm going to need a better speaker proggy then this silly ISD[yes it does work well for what it is, so no flame`n]
> 
> yes higher power and a slight qts, but not so much so that it betters the dayton 18.
> 
> ...



Yeah but what WinISD (no jokes I use it too) does not take into account is what's going to happen to each driver when he has a few too many and approaches the clockwise most end of the volume control 

Methinks the selenium will take it better.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

chad said:


> I dunno his goals, 15 seems silly to me, although he DID nuke 2 EV pro audio cabs of good quality using great drivers trying to... hell I don't know... remove wallpaper?


I would have thought 15 was silly too but after doing some research for those Zaph speakers I'm building it seems like most home theater gurus are aiming for 10-15Hz.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

evan said:


> I would have thought 15 was silly too but after doing some research for those Zaph speakers I'm building it seems like most home theater gurus are aiming for 10-15Hz.


In a large room, FLAT to 10-15 is not going to be wife-friendly AT ALL, unless you do IB, which will raise her suspicion too


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

chad said:


> Yeah but what WinISD (no jokes I use it too) does not take into account is what's going to happen to each driver when he has a few too many and approaches the clockwise most end of the volume control
> 
> Methinks the selenium will take it better.





evan said:


> I would have thought 15 was silly too but after doing some research for those Zaph speakers I'm building it seems like most home theater gurus are aiming for 10-15Hz.





chad said:


> In a large room, FLAT to 10-15 is not going to be wife-friendly AT ALL, unless you do IB, which will raise her suspicion too


I know the Sel 18 is a beast, but for it to equal the Day 18, its going to be pushed way out there.

I really like the AE IB15 , but again the sens is down a ton[87?]. That thing looks unreal for under 20hz responce and it has killer Xmax and killer Q of .7. Pure nutz. Then here we go again not loud enough , and there isn't enough room for 16 drivers. Now thats mental.

Damnit I should go with the AE IB15s, urhg. I would post a link to those but I am unsure if this guy would get pissed off. 

Chad you never said anything about the japanese metal blah blah blah


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Diru said:


> and there isn't enough room for 16 drivers. Now thats mental.
> 
> 
> 
> Chad you never said anything about the japanese metal blah blah blah


A) Use a manifold to put many speakers into a small exit

B) It cracked me up, did not understand a damn word but they really threw down! I played it fro my drummer the other night that just returned from Japan, he got a kick out of it.


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