# HD-DVD and BLU-RAY



## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

If anybody has been following the news like I have for now HD-DVD has been discontinued and BLU-Ray has won. The reason why I have said for now is because of this HD-DVD players have been reduced in price so there is a demand for them once again. Some stores are reporting that they have sold out of HD-DVD players and that they cannot keep up with the demand. However, that is not my reason for posting, I am posting to give insight to both HD-DVD and BLU-RAY for those who have not been following or for those like I was who are confused about the whole new hi-def formats. Yes both HD-DVD and BLU-RAY can do 1080P video, but that is where the similarities end! A lot of deciding which player to buy comes down to movie titles. HD-DVD offers some exclusive titles as well as BLU-RAY. However, there are many titles that are being released on both HD-DVD and BLU-RAY. 

I would next like to talk about the audio section of each format. Where HD-DVD shines is in the audio, HD-DVD has a minimum specification that states that each movie must contain at least Dolby Digital Plus. Now you might be asking how does Dolby Digital Plus differ from regular Dolby Digital? Dolby Digital has a maximum bit rate of 640 kilobits per second in up to 5.1 surround where as Dolby Digital Plus allows for a maximum bit rates of 6.1 megabytes per second in up to 7.1 surround. Another neat feature of Dolby Digital Plus is that it is backwards compatible meaning that if your receiver does not support Dolby Digital Plus it can down convert it back down to regular Dolby Digital. Now BLU-RAY has no minimum specification for audio and that affects the movies that are released. One title that suffered from this was the movie “A Christmas Story”, on HD-DVD it offers Dolby Digital Plus where as on BLU-RAY it only offers MONO sound which simply put sucks! 

Where both HD-DVD and BLU-RAY fall short are in their connections because of a new cable called HDMI. When the new hi-def formats where first proposed Hollywood wanted some advanced type of copyright protection and rightfully so because of the pirating going on all over the internet. What they came up with was HDCP and this to some is considered a bad thing. HDMI on a good note allows you to clean up all your cable clutter because it offers audio and video on one cable. Now where HDCP and HDMI fall short is because sometimes there can be handshaking issues between devices which can cause jittering in picture, freezing of picture, or audio being out of sync (which are all very annoying). Now where HDMI gets confusing is because there are different kinds of HDMI: version 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3 (soon to be 1.3a and 1.3b.). There are also two new HD audio formats Dolby-HD and DTS-HD which allow for 7.1 channels of lossless audio. Where it gets confusing is that this is only supported by HDMI version 1.3! Another which you can receive the new HD audio through is good old rcas (I.E. center, front right, front left, rear right, rear left, and subwoofer). However doesn’t that defeat the purpose of HDMI because it’s supposed to clean up your cable clutter, but instead it adds more cable clutter? In short, make sure your receiver can support HDMI 1.3 or has analog rcas. 

Now it does not matter which format you choose because they have dual format players which support both HD-DVD and BLU-RAY! Samsung had hyped their dual format player at CES this year, but has since discontinued it. There is no need to worry though because LG will continue to make and repair their dual format player. Also there are HD-DVD and BLU-RAY drives for your computer that allow to view hi-def media that way, but that’s a whole other topic in itself. My main was to give a little insight to the new hi-def formats and to also get more people using them as well. Since both formats do 1080P video and HD audio there is no reason to wait any longer The Toshiba HD-DVD players cost as little as $80 so even if you bought that for now and bought a BLU-RAY player later you would still be enjoying the benefits of the new technology.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Thanks for the nice post  But i do think it DOES matter which player you choose to buy now. Like you said "HD-DVD has been discontinued and BLU-Ray has won" so why would you buy an HD-DVD player? Though both formats are available now, HD-DVD movies will fade out of production similar to other media that has been phased out.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

Because both HD-DVD and BLU-RAY do the same audio and video so you could get away spending less money and getting similar results. Also just because it's discontinued does it make it worthless? I still own laserdisc and D-vhs and both are dead media formats.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Yea they do the same, but the media format available will soon be one sided. Therefore, buying an HD-DVD player now over a Blu-ray player is pointless IMO. Can you get new movies on your laserdisc or D-vhs? Do you even still use these formats more than whats more widely available now, CDs and DVDs? Its definitely not worthless technology but i really dont see any benefits to try to keeping it in use when Blu-ray obviously will be mainstream


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

All I am saying is why spend the money now when you don't have too! $80 VS $300, just wait till the price of BLU-RAY drops! Last I checked Amazon had over 400 movie titles on HD-DVD, I'm sure that's enough to satisfy just about anybody and they are marked down in price! And to answer your question I use both Lasedisc and D-vhs just as much or more than my dvd's, but that will when I finish my HTPC! You don't realize how valuable D-vhs is till you record priceless music concerts, sporting events, and others in HD that will never make it either BLU-RAY or HD-DVD!


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Point taken, just providing my opinion as well


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## buddha73 (Jan 11, 2008)

didn't toshiba pull out of hd-dvd too?

http://www.gadgetell.com/tech/comment/toshiba-pulling-hd-dvd-support-blu-ray-has-won-the-war/

i think that pretty much kills hd-dvd


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## ACRucrazy (Mar 13, 2007)

This info is weeks old... buying a HDDVD player now is pretyt silly IMO.

But you know what they say about opinions.

Also if anyone is looking for a good BR player, take a look at the PS3, argueably the best BR player on the market, and the 80 gig not only plays your video games, it plays SACD.  

*watching NIN in concert in BW as I type*


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## kimokalihi (May 27, 2007)

azngotskills said:


> Thanks for the nice post  But i do think it DOES matter which player you choose to buy now. Like you said "HD-DVD has been discontinued and BLU-Ray has won" so why would you buy an HD-DVD player? Though both formats are available now, HD-DVD movies will fade out of production similar to other media that has been phased out.


They've already discontinued all the HD movie productions. Even the ones that were coming out later this year have been canceled. It's dead. Don't buy HD DVD you're wasting your money. Unless the HD DVD selection you can find is enough to satisfy you.


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## buddha73 (Jan 11, 2008)

kimokalihi said:


> They've already discontinued all the HD movie productions. Even the ones that were coming out later this year have been canceled. It's dead. Don't buy HD DVD you're wasting your money. Unless the HD DVD selection you can find is enough to satisfy you.


thats what i thought, but couldn't quite remember. blu-ray is really nice. i don't think i'd ever spend the money to get just a player, but the fact that my ps3 has one built in made me decide to try a movie out and the difference in quality is quite apparent. does anyone know if transformers is coming out on blu-ray?


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

I'm still building my HD DVD library and i'm only 40 movies in. At $7-10 titles, thats 40 movies i dont have to overpay in bluray. Plus because its region free, there are many imports available on hd dvd than can be had that are Blu only in the US. Theres certainly enough HD DVD content to keep people entertained into the new year and beyond-movies dont stop working, they have replay value.

Considering the price, the amount of content out there now I personally think its a no brainer if you dont mind owning a dual player or having two HD players in your livingroom-they look the same on screen, the disc cases are same size....its just at a fraction of the cost. Specially with Bluray players going back up in price after Toshiba called it quits, no free movie promotions....non finished specs and more than a year away from the market sweetspot of of $200.


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## |Tch0rT| (May 7, 2005)

The wife and me bought a HD-DVD player about 2 weeks ago for cheap. She hated our RCA upscaling DVD player and the HD-DVD player was priced right around upscaling DVD players. The Toshiba HD-DVD players are supposed to some of the best upscaling DVD players with the side bonus of playing HD-DVD's.  

The main reason for the purchase? There is still a lot of movies that are HD-DVD exclusive like Transformers (which I hear will be coming to Blu-Ray at some point), Beowulf, The Matrix Trilogy, The Big Lebowski, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas, and V For Vendetta. There are others that'll probably never be re-released on Blu-Ray (there's a list on avsforums.com) due to poor sales so the only way to enjoy those in HD is HD-DVD. HD-DVD's are priced around or lower than regular DVD's so to me it's a cheap way to enjoy HD movies even though it's a dead format.

Now if I could get the wife to ok me buying a PS3 and I'd be set on for Blu-Ray. For now I'll just have to settle with being able to convert MKV's to WMV-HD and watch them on my Xbox 360... hehe



3.5max6spd said:


> Considering the price, the amount of content out there now I personally think its a no brainer if you dont mind owning a dual player or having two HD players in your livingroom-they look the same on screen, the disc cases are same size....its just at a fraction of the cost. Specially with Bluray players going back up in price after Toshiba called it quits, no free movie promotions....non finished specs and more than a year away from the market sweetspot of of $200.


Hell yeah man!

Ryan


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## BoostedNihilist (Mar 3, 2008)

Post #1 Yay. Hey, been lurking for awhile. Im an installer and I also like home audio.



> HDMI on a good note allows you to clean up all your cable clutter because it offers audio and video on one cable.


I both like and dislike this system.

Like: The above reason, less clutter

DisLike: the above reason, one cable is everything, sound, and video. Traditionally when a cable goes bad (and yes, they do go bad) you replace the single bad element which is cheap (such as, an RCA or Optical cable) but with an HDMI you have to replace an entire cable.. I guess it's not too bad but when I got my HDMI receiver HDMI Cables were like fifty bucks and an RCA was like ten. That, and due to backwards compatibility (is this even important to anyone anymore?) the HDMI just doesn't do it for me.


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## rekd0514 (Sep 24, 2006)

bobditts said:


> do we really need to have another thread about this? Use the search button!
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28078&highlight=format​


He is only providing some info to the people if they didn't already know. No harm done at all. Good info for those that aren't in the know on this stuff.


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## dalinkwent (May 19, 2007)

As for expensive hdmi cables go, I too found it ridiculous to pay 60 bucks for any cable. So I went looking and found monoprice. I personally own one of their cables and I highly recommend them. Just trying to help anyone who doesn't think a cable should cost that much.


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

3.5max6spd said:


> I'm still building my HD DVD library and i'm only 40 movies in. At $7-10 titles, thats 40 movies i dont have to overpay in bluray. Plus because its region free, there are many imports available on hd dvd than can be had that are Blu only in the US. Theres certainly enough HD DVD content to keep people entertained into the new year and beyond-movies dont stop working, they have replay value.
> 
> Considering the price, the amount of content out there now I personally think its a no brainer if you dont mind owning a dual player or having two HD players in your livingroom-they look the same on screen, the disc cases are same size....its just at a fraction of the cost. Specially with Bluray players going back up in price after Toshiba called it quits, no free movie promotions....non finished specs and more than a year away from the market sweetspot of of $200.


Not sure where you get your info. BluRay will not be going UP in price. This is still a consumer market and we aren't stupid. Sony has already announced their newer players at cheaper prices than their old ones with profile 1.1 and 2.0 specs. They did this last week. Prices under $300 on BluRay. While I don't deny an exceptional value of an HD-DVD right now, saying it's a wise purchasing decision may be a bit of a stretch. If you don't have a good DVD player, go for it. 7 free movies and dirt cheap prices make these things a steal.



> DisLike: the above reason, one cable is everything, sound, and video. Traditionally when a cable goes bad (and yes, they do go bad) you replace the single bad element which is cheap (such as, an RCA or Optical cable) but with an HDMI you have to replace an entire cable.. I guess it's not too bad but when I got my HDMI receiver HDMI Cables were like fifty bucks and an RCA was like ten. That, and due to backwards compatibility (is this even important to anyone anymore?) the HDMI just doesn't do it for me.


HDMI cables can be found a number of places for MUCH cheaper than $50. Its a digital cable, so it doesn't have as much audible or visible impact as your composite connections did. www.monoprice.com sells HDMI for like $6-15.


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## Todd_S (Mar 13, 2008)

havok20222 said:


> HDMI cables can be found a number of places for MUCH cheaper than $50. Its a digital cable, so it doesn't have as much audible or visible impact as your composite connections did. www.monoprice.com sells HDMI for like $6-15.


I picked up an HDMI to DVI cable from newegg.com for about $8 several weeks ago for my fancy new Toshiba upconverting DVD player (HD-DVD player). Initially I was a bit disappointed in the picture quality of HD-DVD compared to my 4 year old Panasonic DVD player. It really didn't look all that much better on my 4 year old Hitachi 46F500 46" 1080i CRT TV than standard definition DVDs. I decided to give component video cables a shot and the picture from HD-DVD looked noticeably better and not quite as red as it did using the HDMI to DVI cable. I'm not sure what the problem is with my system but I decided to keep the HD-DVD connected via component video cables (thus losing the upconverting capability but oh well).


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Have you tried switching to another cable? It could have been a faulty cable


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## solacedagony (May 18, 2006)

azngotskills said:


> Have you tried switching to another cable? It could have been a faulty cable


I also understand that the version of the HDMI of the sending unit and the receiving unit also has some play in this. (Salesman talk, so don't quote me on it)


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## Todd_S (Mar 13, 2008)

azngotskills said:


> Have you tried switching to another cable? It could have been a faulty cable


Not yet. That is something I have considered however. I figured it might just be my "ancient" DVI equipped TV not processing the inputs in the same manner but I could be mistaken.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

Believe it or not CRTs in general perform better with component. I have a CRT HD tv that was made at the tail end of CRT production (2005) and has HDMI, but I prefer Component video any day on it! Which is why my HTPC has taken so long because I needed a motherboard that supported component video!


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Ultimateherts said:


> Believe it or not CRTs in general perform better with component. I have a CRT HD tv that was made at the tail end of CRT production (2005) and has HDMI, but I prefer Component video any day on it! Which is why my HTPC has taken so long because I needed a motherboard that supported component video!


CRTs are analog by nature. Component is an analog cable. HDMI is digital, which is why when given to a digital display (basically anything you find at stores today) it's going to look better. It's all about how many points that noise or loss can be added to a signal. Going through one more DAC than you need to is a point of adding noise rather than keeping the signal in the form it's already in. Thus it only makes sense that when you give an analog signal to an analog display it will look better than giving a digital signal to the same display.


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## CBRworm (Sep 1, 2006)

I have found the same to be true, but I have not seen a CRT with HDMI or DVI inputs. VGA is also analog, unlike EGA which came before it.

As for the DVD players. My logic is this. You can (I did) buy a HD-DVD player for less than $100 that will play HD-DVD's as well as regular DVD's. I had a hard time finding a good regular DVD player for much less, so I bought the HD one. I only actually own 5 HD-DVD movies, but for the money it was a no brainer.

I can not spend $300+ on a DVD player period


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

kimokalihi said:


> They've already discontinued all the HD movie productions. Even the ones that were coming out later this year have been canceled. It's dead. Don't buy HD DVD you're wasting your money. Unless the HD DVD selection you can find is enough to satisfy you.


I dunno about that. I just saw a commercial for I Am Legend, and it will be available on HD and BD.


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> I dunno about that. I just saw a commercial for I Am Legend, and it will be available on HD and BD.


That's because it was already made. A few articles for your viewing pleasure.

http://gizmodo.com/362786/universals-appropriately-final-hd-dvd-release-atonement
http://gizmodo.com/362171/paramount...release-schedule-but-no-blu-flicks-til-summer


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

What bothers me the most about the new formats is that on Blu-ray they are releasing movies with subpar sound! Some of the movies on there only list regular Dolby Digital 5.1 which means if we want the best sound on those movies we'll have to buy them again! What a waste the movie studios should do it right the first time!

LINK:

http://www.blu-raystats.com/stats.php


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Ultimateherts said:


> What bothers me the most about the new formats is that on Blu-ray they are releasing movies with subpar sound! Some of the movies on there only list regular Dolby Digital 5.1 which means if we want the best sound on those movies we'll have to buy them again! What a waste the movie studios should do it right the first time!
> 
> LINK:
> 
> http://www.blu-raystats.com/stats.php


Many of them are uncompressed LPCM which is fine.

iRobot, Independence Day, Cast Away, and a few others recently released are DTS-HD Master Audio


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

havok20222 said:


> Many of them are uncompressed LPCM which is fine.
> 
> iRobot, Independence Day, Cast Away, and a few others recently released are DTS-HD Master Audio


Yay for cast away! I agree LCPM is fine, but there are still far too many titles on Blu-ray that only use regular Dolby Digital! That should not be allowed at all!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

but BD won because like all the HD naysayers here said BD is a better format.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> but BD won because like all the HD naysayers here said BD is a better format.


Even though it looks like they won there is still a lot work to be done! I think like over 85% of people still use standard dvds. And with the current push for non disc formats (IE digital downloads) Blu-ray could no more than a niche market. Not to say that's bad because like 90% of the home theater formats I have are dead now or were considered niche market formats at one time or another. And let's not forget HVD (Holograph Video Disc) that can store 100gigs per disc! Soon enough we'll being going to that. My point is there are many different options, do not limit your self to marketing jumbo. With the internet and ebay no format is really dead as long there enough people that can gather and enjoy it. I will never part with my laserdisc or d-vhs collection!


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> but BD won because like all the HD naysayers here said BD is a better format.


Actually they won because they turned Warner Media. It wasn't about the perception of a better format, it was about money and payoffs. Same thing with VHS/Beta. Sony/BluRay camp paid Warner $450 million to turn BluRay. End of format war.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I know why they won. I was referring to past threads where all the fanboys were spouting off about BD's "superiority" which was based on nothing more than an edge in capacity which the don't seem to be using anyway since there are some BD movies being released in MONO. Are you kidding me? 

HD is STILL a better format, but as is the case with Beta/VHS, the inferior format was marketed/distributed/bribed better.


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

> HD is STILL a better format, but as is the case with Beta/VHS, the inferior format was marketed/distributed/bribed better.


There are way too many profile 1.1 and 2.0 players hitting the streets this spring for you to attempt to make those claims. Sounds like someone is still chapped over the format war.


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## Sideshow (Mar 6, 2007)

havok20222 said:


> There are way too many profile 1.1 and 2.0 players hitting the streets this spring for you to attempt to make those claims. Sounds like someone is still chapped over the format war.


Those aren't just claims, those are facts. HDDVD is technically superior in almost every way.


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## Sideshow (Mar 6, 2007)

havok20222 said:


> Not sure where you get your info. BluRay will not be going UP in price. This is still a consumer market and we aren't stupid. Sony has already announced their newer players at cheaper prices than their old ones with profile 1.1 and 2.0 specs. They did this last week. Prices under $300 on BluRay. While I don't deny an exceptional value of an HD-DVD right now, saying it's a wise purchasing decision may be a bit of a stretch. If you don't have a good DVD player, go for it. 7 free movies and dirt cheap prices make these things a steal.
> 
> 
> 
> HDMI cables can be found a number of places for MUCH cheaper than $50. Its a digital cable, so it doesn't have as much audible or visible impact as your composite connections did. www.monoprice.com sells HDMI for like $6-15.


Sorry buddy. Blue Ray just spiked in price. There are even articles on Yahoo about it. The companies want to take advantage of the news of the ending format war, and Sony is holding back on allowing Chinese manufacturers for a little longer. That is when they will go back down.


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## Sideshow (Mar 6, 2007)

Ultimateherts said:


> Yay for cast away! I agree LCPM is fine, but there are still far too many titles on Blu-ray that only use regular Dolby Digital! That should not be allowed at all!


Puh-leeze! Like "regular" Dolby Digital is a bad thing. Nobody will be able to hear a difference between the two anyways. People just assume it sounds better because it's advertised to. It's just another way for Dolby to get a spike in sales like they get whenever they invent a new surround parameter. 

Should we talk about how awesome HDCD sounds while we're dreaming?

Or how amazing SACD is when really it is just that everything that is released on SACD is a reference quality recording that would sound just as good on CD if it were handled with the same care?

Or maybe about how we need to be careful of "jitter" through our optical cables?

Or how the difference between 1080i and 1080p is "night and day"?

Or how much more information this high-end CD transport pulls off the disc than this cheap one?


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Sideshow said:


> Those aren't just claims, those are facts. HDDVD is technically superior in almost every way.


1. You're retarded. "Technically superior"? Less space, less manufacturer support, less options for future expansion, oh and its DEAD. Ya, good call there. HD-DVD was cheaper to make, and was "final spec" out of the gate. That's ALL it had going for it.



> Sorry buddy. Blue Ray just spiked in price. There are even articles on Yahoo about it. The companies want to take advantage of the news of the ending format war, and Sony is holding back on allowing Chinese manufacturers for a little longer. That is when they will go back down.


2. Not at *authorized retailers*. Joe Shmoe's internet shack raised his price. Whooptie doo. I work retail and sell BluRay players on a day to day basis. I think I know where the prices lie. Just last week the panasonic went on sale for $100 off + 2 free movies. Again, information is key. Playstation 3 has not raised in price, Sony and Sharp players have no raised in price. They just haven't dropped. Sony says $299 on their S350 by x-mas.



> Puh-leeze! Like "regular" Dolby Digital is a bad thing. Nobody will be able to hear a difference between the two anyways. People just assume it sounds better because it's advertised to. It's just another way for Dolby to get a spike in sales like they get whenever they invent a new surround parameter.
> 
> Should we talk about how awesome HDCD sounds while we're dreaming?
> 
> ...


3. You fail yet a 3rd time. I have done A-B versus Dolby Digital and Dolby TrueHD. You can 100% hear a difference. It's like saying you can't hear between and MP3 and a good CD recording. I also own an SACD player. It absolutely sounds better than a standard CD, and I love a lot of the surround effects many of them implement. It puts a smile on my face. Let me guess, you sit behind your little keyboard on the internet and don't own a BluRay player, and SACD player or a receiver capable of handing any newer audio formats yet your an "expert".

I think its funny how all these early adopters are chapped about buying a player that has no support even from the manufacturer now so they feel the need to cry about how "superior" it is. It doesn't matter.... It can be the greatest thing in the world, it HAS NO SUPPORT. Get over it.


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## Sideshow (Mar 6, 2007)

havok20222 said:


> 1. You're retarded. "Technically superior"? Less space, less manufacturer support, less options for future expansion, oh and its DEAD. Ya, good call there. HD-DVD was cheaper to make, and was "final spec" out of the gate. That's ALL it had going for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll tell you what, if you really want to establish credibility for yourself, keep opening your posts with "You're retarded". What are you gonna do next, try to give me an atomic wedgie? 

Look, I don't have time to explain to yet another Best Buy employee how everything he hears from the Monster Cable reps in his "training" (read : profitability) meetings is a bunch of crap, or that when you try to prove the validity of SACD you need to get someone else to do it for you and make sure everything else is equal. You know, blindfold yourself, same reference recording on both discs, same output levels, and not comparing an SACD of the London Symphony Orchestra to an N'Sync disk from your collection. It's called an A/B/X listening test. Look it up.

And by the way, for the record, and in light of your stressing the "information is key" rolleyes: ), I own a custom installation business. I AM a retailer. I own all this crap. You're out there selling stuff to people and then never seeing them again. I sell what is best for my clients, and I make all the comparisons I need to. But, of course, some of it falls under the category of common sense.


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## 03blueSI (Feb 5, 2006)

Sideshow said:


> Those aren't just claims, those are facts. HDDVD is technically superior in almost every way.


Maybe the format is, but when all of the available players do not properly handle 1080p there is a problem.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

03blueSI said:


> Maybe the format is, but when all of the available players do not properly handle 1080p there is a problem.


How was it a problem? That those early adopter HDTV consumers who have 720p/1080i displays have to pay for a 1080p player? 1080i players were priced accordingly. Not to mention the majority if not all current 1080p displays that'll deinterlace a 1080i signal and convert it to 1080p anyhow.


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## Sideshow (Mar 6, 2007)

3.5max6spd said:


> How was it a problem? That those early adopter HDTV consumers who have 720p/1080i displays have to pay for a 1080p player? 1080i players were priced accordingly. Not to mention the majority if not all current 1080p displays that'll deinterlace a 1080i signal and convert it to 1080p anyhow.


Well spoken. People seem to have no idea what a TV will do to make the signal work best for it.


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Sideshow said:


> I'll tell you what, if you really want to establish credibility for yourself, keep opening your posts with "You're retarded". What are you gonna do next, try to give me an atomic wedgie?
> 
> Look, I don't have time to explain to yet another Best Buy employee how everything he hears from the Monster Cable reps in his "training" (read : profitability) meetings is a bunch of crap, or that when you try to prove the validity of SACD you need to get someone else to do it for you and make sure everything else is equal. You know, blindfold yourself, same reference recording on both discs, same output levels, and not comparing an SACD of the London Symphony Orchestra to an N'Sync disk from your collection. It's called an A/B/X listening test. Look it up.
> 
> And by the way, for the record, and in light of your stressing the "information is key" rolleyes: ), I own a custom installation business. I AM a retailer. I own all this crap. You're out there selling stuff to people and then never seeing them again. I sell what is best for my clients, and I make all the comparisons I need to. But, of course, some of it falls under the category of common sense.


I like how you presume my position, experience or knowledge. I suppose it's only fair as I did the same, however I'll enlighten you to a few simple facts. My experience in the industry and interest as a hobby goes far beyond what you believe it to be. N'Sync does not, to my knowledge, have an SACD available. Nor would I purchase one if they did. I also would not purchase the London Symphony Orchestra as it bores me more than it entertains me. I can however appreciate what I may have to offer, just not my cup ofnorm tea. 

Lets also note that it was you sir, not myself that set out to attack others on this post displaying for all that you, apparently, are the final word of the consumer and the electronics industry. You chose not to keep it a civil conversation, thus I retaliated in a more hostile manner than I would normally otherwise do so. That, and not your lack of information, is what makes you "retarded" as I put in my own words. 

I never had anything against HD-DVD. Hell, I almost purchased one. The wiser side of me thought to wait out the format war however. Plain and simple there was NEVER any technical evidence that HD-DVD was superior. It was finalized first. It wasn't the better path, it was the cheaper and easier path. Of course they had their format polished first. They piggybacked off an existing and refined format, rather than re-invent the wheel.

Why were even still talking about this nonsense I don't even know. I mean you can tout your business and client relations all you want because none of it, not even from you oh great one, will breathe life back into a dead format. I ask myself though. What are you doing for your clients who purchased HD-DVD players based upon your recommendations, seeing as how you sell what is best for them and all?

What's done is done, go buy a BluRay player and enjoy HD, or don't I don't care. It's always funny how early adopters get burnt, then are angry not at themselves, but at people who either waited or made the correct decision the first time.


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## SQKid89 (Feb 22, 2007)

early adopters always get burned, but thats just the name of the game. I'm still happy with my HD-DVD purchase and own about a dozen or more titles. I don't care that its a dead format; I still have a disc that looks amazing to me and all of those who sit down and watch with me. I'm not angry that I own SACD's and DVD-A's; there still nothing like sitting back and hearing a new take on your favorite albums.

I am, however, going to take advantage of these fire sales and possibly grab another player, along with who knows how many discs for stupidly low prices. I'll be more than happy to pay sub SD-DVD prices for discs while the BD version (if yet available) goes for 2-4x the cost


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

havok20222 said:


> What's done is done, go buy a BluRay player and enjoy HD, or don't I don't care. It's always funny how early adopters get burnt, then are angry not at themselves, but at people who either waited or made the correct decision the first time.


That is why they are called early adopters! They seek enjoyment by trying all the new hi-tech products on the market. Also I care about who buys hd, if no one buys it they will not make it! They cannot survive on the niche markets alone. And if anyone care bestbuy has hd-dvds for 30% off and amazon has hd-dvds for 50% off! There is enough media between all hd formats (muse 1080i laserdisc, d-vhs, hd-dvd, and blu-ray) where everyone can find something they like. And in case anyone is wondering muse laserdisc delivers 1080i video and is the only way to get the Back to The Future Triliogy in hd!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

havok20222 said:


> There are way too many profile 1.1 and 2.0 players hitting the streets this spring for you to attempt to make those claims. Sounds like someone is still chapped over the format war.


You just proved my point. HD was perfect out of the box. BD is STILL making just and they STILL aren't up to the level of HD. 

I will admit, I MUCH prefer HD but I have a 360 and a PS3 so I'm covered either way, but HD is a better format.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Sideshow said:


> Puh-leeze! Like "regular" Dolby Digital is a bad thing. Nobody will be able to hear a difference between the two anyways. People just assume it sounds better because it's advertised to. It's just another way for Dolby to get a spike in sales like they get whenever they invent a new surround parameter.
> 
> Should we talk about how awesome HDCD sounds while we're dreaming?
> 
> ...



WHAT???? That was a f*cking selling point of BD over HD!!! The extra capacity to be able to include better audio tracks was the ONLY thing BD had over HD and now they're not even doing that.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

03blueSI said:


> Maybe the format is, but when all of the available players do not properly handle 1080p there is a problem.


You're not going there. You CAN'T be going there. Especially when launch BD players won't even PLAY current BD titles. I know you aren't going to go down that road...


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> WHAT???? That was a f*cking selling point of BD over HD!!! The extra capacity to be able to include better audio tracks was the ONLY thing BD had over HD and now they're not even doing that.


I only own like 7 movies in BluRay. 2 of them are in DTS-HD Master Audio, 2 are Dolby TrueHD, 2 are Uncompressed PCM. Only one of them is standard Dolby Digital, and it's a remaster of a movie from the 90's (Gattaca). So ya, the audio is there. Sure there are some discs without newer audio, but most of them are older movies anyhow. I would say audio is good for the most part. 

iRobot, Independence Day, Cast Away, and a bunch of others were released with DTS-MA HD.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I'm not saying that there aren't BD movies with HD audio, but the fact that there are BD movies released with a mono soundtrack is ludicrous.


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> I'm not saying that there aren't BD movies with HD audio, but the fact that there are BD movies released with a mono soundtrack is ludicrous.


Not that I have been looking, but I have yet to see one.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

havok20222 said:


> Not that I have been looking, but I have yet to see one.


You didn't read the whole thread did you? Re-read the first post.


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> You didn't read the whole thread did you? Re-read the first post.


Yup, completely read over that line. I'll be honest though, if I'm building my movie collection ala BluRay (which I am) I think a movie like this works its way well down to the bottom of the re-buy list.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Be that as it may, it's still a BD in mono and from my readings on AVSforum, it's not the only one.


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## havok20222 (Sep 5, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Be that as it may, it's still a BD in mono and from my readings on AVSforum, it's not the only one.


Oh I don't disagree. Just saying I like starting with movies filmed well with good audio tracks. My personal choice.


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