# Stereo Integrity Mag v4



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

This is the start of my SI Mag v4 review. This will be a long, multi part review spanning several weeks. I will be reviewing the Mag on it's own merit as well as doing a head to head comparison against the popular DIYMA R12.

First things first, initial impressions on packaging for shipment and build quality of the sub. The packaging is top notch. It came double boxed with the outer most box being plain brown cardboard. Here is what you see when you open the outer box.


















Open the box to reveal double layer foam padding on each end and the sub carefully wrapped in a nice fabric bag with a draw string closure.


















Remove the sub from it's "storage bag" and you have, what I consider to be, a very nice looking sub. Clean and simple paper cone, rubber surround, and a nicely finished basket. The terminals are of good quality and have solid feel to the springs. For as well as this sub is built, it's *LIGHT*!! After being used to the 37 pound DIYMA R12, this thing is unreal in terms of weight. I like the way this sub is finished off. It seems that Nick really put some thought into how he wanted this sub to look. Well, on to the pictures.











































I should be getting the test box that will be used for this sub in the next day or two. MidnightCE from this forum is being nice enough to let me borrow his 1ft^3 sealed box for the duration of testing. I will also be trying this sub in a .8ft^3 sealed box with a nice amount of fill. The sub will be powered with a clean 500watts RMS and will be crossed from 18Hz and up with varying low pass points between 63 - 150Hz. Granted, the sub would never see 150Hz in a normal setup but I want to see how it does up that high. I know that the DIYMA R12 can play up there without any problems. If the build quality and looks are any indication, this should be a very impressive sub and I'm excited to begin testing. 

A big thanks goes out to Nick at SI for allowing me to test this sub out and put it through it's paces. There are going to be several local forum members coming by to listen to this sub and do a head to head comparison against the DIYMA R12. If anyone is near Sacramento, CA and would like to swing by for a listen then PM me and we'll figure out a time that's convenient for both of us.

Zach


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

Looking forward to impressions.

That cone looks exactly like the little Mach5 mid front and back. 

-Edited-


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

I highly suggest NOT porting the driver. It was designed for sealed only and performs exceptionally well in sealed. On the contrary, it performs exceptionally poor in vented...which was/is anticipated. 

I think once you see Zach's review you'll stop peering into WinISD so much.  The driver has no problem playing low. That is exactly the reason why we were so hesitant to release the T/S's on the driver.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

why does this double-post every time recently? 

Something useful (I think he's going to post on here also): here is Joe in Australia's review of the Mag v4.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

Oops...was thinking IDQ  My bad.

Sorry. I've got no clue on this one.

Above post has been revised.


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## jwdrums0 (Nov 12, 2007)

Hi everyone,

I posted the review of this sub on the SI forums today. I was going to simply cut and paste the same article here, but I'm happy for folks to simply click on the link Nick provided instead. 

I'll be following this thread with interest. I haven't heard the DIYMA driver before (I know of it's great reputation though), but I'm pretty familiar with the sound of this Mag, so it'll be cool to read the comparo.

Joe


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm really looking forward to this review and seeing how the SI mag compares to the already well known and established DIYMA.



Electrodynamic said:


> why does this double-post every time recently?
> 
> Something useful (I think he's going to post on here also): here is Joe in Australia's review of the Mag v4.


Thanks for the link, gotta do some more searching over on the SI forums again.



jwdrums0 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I posted the review of this sub on the SI forums today. I was going to simply cut and paste the same article here, but I'm happy for folks to simply click on the link Nick provided instead.
> 
> ...


Dang I gotta say that was an awesome review. I don't have half the experience as you have with various drivers and systems. You put into words all the stuff I have been experiencing with the mags but could never quite eloquently describe in text.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> I highly suggest NOT porting the driver. It was designed for sealed only and performs exceptionally well in sealed. On the contrary, it performs exceptionally poor in vented...which was/is anticipated.
> 
> I think once you see Zach's review you'll stop peering into WinISD so much.  The driver has no problem playing low. That is exactly the reason why we were so hesitant to release the T/S's on the driver.


Nick, I had no intentions of porting the Mag. Porting small box subs like this and the DIYMA aren't worth it due to the ungodly length of port needed. Just my opinion though.




jwdrums0 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I posted the review of this sub on the SI forums today. I was going to simply cut and paste the same article here, but I'm happy for folks to simply click on the link Nick provided instead.
> 
> ...


Joe,

Thanks for posting up your review! And about the DIYMA R12, I was actually planning on sending one to a good friend of mine who lives in Perth this spring. I'm sure that he wouldn't mind lending it to you for a while for some testing if you would be interested. He runs the Perth Rotary Car Club there. Just let me know and when the time comes for me to ship the sub I'll put you in contact with him.

Cheers,

Zach


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

mvw2 said:


> Oops...was thinking IDQ  My bad.
> 
> Sorry. I've got no clue on this one.
> 
> Above post has been revised.


 Gotcha.

On the note of cones - a lot of paper cones look the same. Too bad they can be drastically different while still looking the same. Seriously. If one paper cone shreds, then all paper cones suck, right? Different materials that make up the cone itself and how the cone was formed have a huge impact on the performance of the cone itself (not only strength, but also how it sounds - like if you're in the PA industry you only buy your cones from one supplier because the water they use from the area the build house is located in makes the cone sound different than other paper cones). Same with old-school poly cones - they all looked the same until they started treating the exteriors differently.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

edit.


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## HHawk (Dec 3, 2006)

Subscribed.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Come on Zach...you know you've listened to it. 

...and Michel: you should have yours hooked up by now!!!


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## HHawk (Dec 3, 2006)

Nah still haven't hooked them up...
...I am still building the box.

Other than that I still have to reinstall the 3 amplifiers, 2 batteries, capacitor, etc. etc. etc.

Will take another month (or even 2 if I am unlucky).


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## TheOtherSide (Apr 16, 2008)

Dude, I am so signed up for this one. I have seen a lot of Nick's reviews and they have all come out nice. It'll be cool to see it compared side by side to the DIYMA 12. Two very nice drivers there.


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## jwdrums0 (Nov 12, 2007)

Hey Zach,

Thanks very much for your generous offer. What a coincidence! I'll PM you with details.

Regards, Joe


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Joe,

I got your PM and will keep you in the loop about the DIYMA that's going to Perth next year.

Nick,

I actually haven't listened to it yet.  I haven't been able to get together with MidnightCE to grab the test box yet. Work has been kicking my butt after being out of town for 2 weeks. But I plan to have the Mag in my car and playing before the end of this weekend!  I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zach


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Damn that thing is sexy...and I've always liked pulp paper cones like the SS Reference and Exact, RF DVC and Power DVC. Something about them I really like.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Damn that thing is sexy...and I've always liked pulp paper cones like the SS Reference and Exact, RF DVC and Power DVC. Something about them I really like.


This sub will be in the car and playing before we go back to work on Monday. So just let me know when you want to get together for a listen bro.

Zach


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Anyone know what the MSRP is on these? They pulled the price off the site when they went out of stock. 

Zach, you free today?


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Anyone know what the MSRP is on these? They pulled the price off the site when they went out of stock.
> 
> Zach, you free today?


Not sure if they are changing things, BUT, when I got mine they were $250 shipped to your door. 

I'm loving mine (and still need to write a review  ) but gave a few east coasters a chance to listen to the mag the other day so slowly but surely more and more will get a chance to hear it. Now I can finally start building the final box for it and ditch my temporary box.

Subscribed to this thread to see how it turns out


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## gsr22 (Jul 30, 2007)

sure did sound good in your truck josh


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

jdc753 said:


> Not sure if they are changing things, BUT, when I got mine they were $250 shipped to your door.
> 
> I'm loving mine (and still need to write a review  ) but gave a few east coasters a chance to listen to the mag the other day so slowly but surely more and more will get a chance to hear it. Now I can finally start building the final box for it and ditch my temporary box.
> 
> Subscribed to this thread to see how it turns out


Damn...even if it's a little better than the DIYMA I can buy two of them for the price of a Mag4...well that kind of makes my mind up for me.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Paul,

Sorry for not logging on here earlier. Yes, I was free today. In fact, I was messing with my install for most of the day. I did take an hour and listen to the Mag though. 

After only an hour's time, I'm VERY impressed with this driver. I'll actually post my 2nd part of the review in a seperate post though. Let me know what day this week you want to get together.

Zach


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Ok, so day 1 of listening to the new Mag is over. I got to spend about an hour listening today. First things first, here are some pics of the Mag in it's test box sitting in the back of my Scion. The box was a touch over 1ft^3, but I brought it back down with some pieces of wood I placed in the box. The Mag is wired in series to show a 4ohm mono load and it's receiving 500 watts RMS.


































Initial listening impressions are very positive. This sub is nice!! Clean, articulate, efficient, transparent (when wanted and BEASTLY when asked) would be great words to describe what I've heard so far. 

I don't have it tuned in just where I want it yet and I want to give the sub more time to break in as well. So this isn't going to be a very in depth post. I will say that if this is any indication, then I may very well have to decide between twin DIYMA R12's and twin Mag's in my newest install. Only time will tell on that one though. 

Zach


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

Any more updates Zach?? Looking forward to hearing the rest of your thoughts. 




gsr22 said:


> sure did sound good in your truck josh


Thanks man


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

jdc753 said:


> Any more updates Zach?? Looking forward to hearing the rest of your thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I have another 4 hours or so of listening time in on the Mag so far. I'm still tweaking a little on the level/eq/TA though. I don't have anything bad to say at all about this sub so far. I figure another day of listening and I'll consider the Mag to be fully broken in. From there I'll start doing some real critical listening. After that, the DIYMA R12 will be put in the hatch of the xB as well so I can switch back and forth between the two for comparisons.

Zach


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

sweet, looking forward to the direct comparison.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

PS: With only 500 watts going to the driver you could have left the enclosure as it was and not installed the pieces of wood. But 1 ft^3 is a good figure after driver displacement.


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## mSaLL150 (Aug 14, 2008)

Zach,

Are you free at all this weekend? Let me know. I would love a listen. 

-Marc


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Electrodynamic said:


> PS: With only 500 watts going to the driver you could have left the enclosure as it was and not installed the pieces of wood. But 1 ft^3 is a good figure after driver displacement.


What are the recommended enclosure volumes for different power levels? Say, 500 or 1000 Watts.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Marc,

Yeah, I'll have some time this weekend. Sunday late morning/early afternoon would be best for me. Shoot me a PM with your number and we can set things up.

Paul,

I honestly don't think that the Mag even needs 500 watts. It can get STOOPID loud off the 500 it's getting now. For SQ listening, I'd be willing to bet that 300 would be just fine. I don't even know what 1000 watts would do.  And you should swing by the house this weekend too bro. Maybe we can get those RS225 rings cut out for you.

Zach


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Boostedrex said:


> I honestly don't think that the Mag even needs 500 watts. It can get STOOPID loud off the 500 it's getting now. For SQ listening, I'd be willing to bet that 300 would be just fine. I don't even know what 1000 watts would do.


Haha, exactly. My buddies 500 watts on his Mag v4 in his Scion gets plenty loud enough for me. He wants to up the ante to 1000 watts though for better transients. ...hey, at least he doesn't want to double the power for more BOOM.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Oh, I almost forgot, with 500 watts you can run the Mag in 1.5 ft^3 if you wanted. With 700 you can go to 1.25 cubes. But with a full <1000 watts you'll need to use 1 ft^3.


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> Oh, I almost forgot, with 500 watts you can run the Mag in 1.5 ft^3 if you wanted. With 700 you can go to 1.25 cubes. But with a full <1000 watts you'll need to use 1 ft^3.


Hmn, that's good to know. I'm only running 350w, and my box is going to end up on the big side. I won't worry about filling it in then...


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

For what it's worth I LOVED the performance in 1.3 cubes when I had it in my Civic. I had a 1000D on it too, and the Mag is definitely capable of handling that power on a daily basis...just not all 1000 watts. I liked having the extra power though because it performed so much better.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Well I'd definitely want to run ~1000 to it then. My GTI doesn't have a lot of room and I really didn't want to go any larger than 1cf. Less if possible.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Well I'd definitely want to run ~1000 to it then. My GTI doesn't have a lot of room and I really didn't want to go any larger than 1cf. Less if possible.



Paul,

I don't think you're understanding. Nick was saying that you need 1ft^3 is you want to run 1Kw, not that you need 1Kw if you are going to be in a 1ft^3. 400-500 will be more than enough to this sub in 1ft^3 IMHO. But I'll let you listen for yourself and be the judge of that.

Zach


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> For what it's worth I LOVED the performance in 1.3 cubes when I had it in my Civic. I had a 1000D on it too, and the Mag is definitely capable of handling that power on a daily basis...just not all 1000 watts. I liked having the extra power though because it performed so much better.


Maybe this could become a good discussion over in the All about enclosures section on the SI forums. Might have to start something there soon as I am narrowing things down.

What if you have 1500w on tap???  I'm making sure to play nice


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## HHawk (Dec 3, 2006)

No new testing results?


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

HHawk said:


> No new testing results?


I'm actually out of town on business right now. But I do have about 8 hours total listening time in on the Mag so far. Here is how I have it set up:

Mag is in ~1.25ft^3 sealed net seeing 500 watts RMS
Sub level on my DRZ is -10.0db
I have an EQ cut of -2.0db at 50Hz with a Q of 1.5
The T/A is set to 0ms
The sub is 180 degrees out of phase

This combination has proved to be AMAZING!! The sub sounds like it's coming out of the very center of the dash/windshield area!!! The biggest surprise about the Mag so far has been the ungodly amount of authority it has down low while still remaining "invisible." 

I've said it several times already, but I feel it needs to be said again. The power rating of 1000 watts is a MAXIMUM level, the sub doesn't need anywhere near that much to sound amazing and deliver adequate output. For 95% of real SQ enthusiasts, 300 watts in 1 to 1.25ft^3 will be just fine. Look at my car for example, the Mag is seeing 500 watts, but look at the HUGE cut that I have on the sub to make it blend the way I want. -10db on the level and another -2.0db cut at 50Hz to get rid of the cabin gain. 

However, in the interest of being fair... My new Cadence iA7 is supposed to arrive today from Jason Paul. So I'll try the Mag out with a full 1200 watts on tap just to see what it's like. I'll also be dropping the box size to exactly 1.0ft^3 for this part of the testing.

Expect more testing results along with critical listening notes and the head to head shootout with the DIYMA R12 to come along in the days following my return home from abroad. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read this and a big thanks again to Nick at SI for making such a great product!

Zach


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

Good things for sure 

Looking forward to the rest of your thoughts.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

My only suggestion with the comparison is don't judge by frequency response. Although, usable range is important for an install, it is simply a byproduct of woofer design and box choice. For example, if the Mag has a F3 of 30Hz and the DIYMA a F3 of 50Hz, one would obviously conclude the Mag is louder, more authoritative, and fuller in presence. However, you could port the DIYMA and also get a F3 of 30Hz and a louder and fuller presense down low as well. Just differentiate sound characteristics and simple byproducts of frequency response.

The huge cut on the HU simply indicates a sensitivity difference, or at least an amp gain difference between the front drivers and the sub. It's not very useful for comparison unless you level balance all your gains to the same level on all your amps. Many people probably don't do this between the front stage amp and sub amp. One can not directly compare sensitivity without doing this. You can compare sensitivity to a previously run sub, but you have no comparison to the front speakers which is essentially what you're doing when you're cutting or raising the sub level on the HU.


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## HHawk (Dec 3, 2006)

mvw2 said:


> For example, if the Mag has a F3 of 30Hz and the DIYMA a F3 of 50Hz, one would obviously conclude the Mag is louder, more authoritative, and fuller in presence. However, you could port the DIYMA and also get a F3 of 30Hz and a louder and fuller presense down low as well. Just differentiate sound characteristics and simple byproducts of frequency response.


Like porting isn't going to increase the enclosure, which might be a turn off for people like me with limited trunk space. 

I am almost done building my setup. This includes 3 SI Mag subwoofers which will be powered by 2 strapped Sundown Audio amplifiers. This means each Mag will get 800W RMS in an enclosure around 3 cu. ft.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

I don't think Zach is basing his conclusions on a new system/amplifiers. IIRC he plopped the Mag into a vehicle that had everything already setup - he hasn't touched his gains. But I do somewhat agree: a large bandwidth is beneficial, but does not mean that one will sound better than another - it's depends on what part of the frequency spectrum you are trying to fill up. For instance, if you use a midrange to try to fill up the subwoofer bandwidth with no x-over, it's not really going to work out for you. A midrange has a very large bandwidth compared to most subwoofers, but a midrange sucks for sub bass. However, in the same target bandwidth, the driver that covers more of said bandwidth will probably sound better. I have yet to hear a driver that covers more of the frequency spectrum in question that hasn't sounded better. I'm sure there can be a situation that proves otherwise, but I haven't heard one.

The key thing that Zach is hearing is the Mag's ability to cover a LOT of the frequency bandwidth while being very linear at it (read: no big peaks or dips associated with the driver itself). Most of the bandwidth being covered is of course a factor of the extremely low inductance. The low-end and linearity of the output is a factor of XBL^2 and driver design / T/S's. 

Again, I think that out of anyone Zach is doing a very fair comparisson. Unless I totally missed something...


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## HHawk (Dec 3, 2006)

> Expect more testing results along with critical listening notes and the head to head shootout with the DIYMA R12 to come along in the days following my return home from abroad.


When do you expect some new results?
...my install will be done tomorrow!!!!!!!


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Quality_Sound and I spent a few hours in my car this past weekend listening to both the Mag and the DIYMA. I will post up my thoughts on the Mag either later today or tomorrow around lunch. I'm not going to post up my comparison thoughts until the other locals have come and listened as I don't want my results to possibly weigh in on their listening impressions.


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## Silenkiller (Dec 18, 2008)

Nice review.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> I'm not going to post up my comparison thoughts until the other locals have come and listened as I don't want my results to possibly weigh in on their listening impressions.


Same for me. Zach and I agree for the most part but like him, I don't want my review/comparo to skew anyone else's thoughts.


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## CAMSHAFT (Apr 7, 2006)

Allright boostedrex where are your thoughts???


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## 1990dtgl98 (Dec 8, 2008)

Also deciding between the DIYMA and the SI sub.

Eagerly awaiting a direct comparison within the same vehicle


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## norcalsfinest (Aug 30, 2008)

Zach, what are you doing this weekend? If you're free i'd like to come out and give them both a run. I already own the DIYMA, but its still in its box from Nguyen's warehouse, and i still want to hear the comparison


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

CAMSHAFT said:


> Allright boostedrex where are your thoughts???


Going to type them up today at lunch.  Sorry for the delay, work is uber hectic.



1990dtgl98 said:


> Also deciding between the DIYMA and the SI sub.
> 
> Eagerly awaiting a direct comparison within the same vehicle


I just posted my thoughts on that question in your thread in the product comparison forum.



norcalsfinest said:


> Zach, what are you doing this weekend? If you're free i'd like to come out and give them both a run. I already own the DIYMA, but its still in its box from Nguyen's warehouse, and i still want to hear the comparison


Come on out! MidnightCE, Quality_Sound (again  ), and funkalicious are all probably going to be coming by for a listen too. PM me and I'll shoot you my contact info. Sunday would be best, but I can do Saturday if needed. And this way you'll get a chance to see/hear some Zuki amps too since you are asking about those.

Zach


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Zach,

I'm in Tahoe with Eva until Tuesday. I wouldn't mind listening again but it won;t be this weekend. We can do it the night we all go out if you want. I don't see my thoughts changing though.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Ok, here's my review for the Stereo Integrity Mag v4.

To start, the Mag is in a 1.25 ft^3 sealed box and seeing 500 watts RMS. I have it LP'd at 50Hz with an 18db/oct slope. The car is an '05 Scion xB and the sub box is in the cargo area in the back right corner of the vehicle. I gave the sub a full week of listening time to break in before doing my test.

The Mag is really a great sub. I have been enjoying how clean it is no matter what music you're listening to or what volume levels you're listen at. There is absolutely zero overhang, every note is clear and well defined. This is a much more efficient sub than I'm used to. I've mentioned it before, but I'll do it again. You don't need 500 watts for this sub to overpower any front stage out there. 300 would more than do the job and make 95% of SQ guys out there happy. But headroom never hurt right?  The Mag has incredible authority down low, but can still play up higher without any drawbacks. I had the Mag LP'd as high as 100Hz just to see what it could do and it didn't let me down. Blending this sub to my midbass drivers was a piece of cake. I had a couple of people sit in my car (not really saavy audio guys though) and look very confused as the bass was coming from the center of the dash/windshield. I'd say that was the compliment I had hoped for. For my own listening tests I used the following tracks:

Alice in Chains Unplugged - No Excuses
This song starts with strong kickdrum and it's easy for subs to really sound artificial here. The Mag reproduced each beat perfectly and still maintained a natural sound/feel to the notes. Each note was well centered and in front of me. All the transient passages and the lowest notes from the bass guitar in the song followed this same routine. Everything was precise and as I would want it to be.

Disturbed - Deify
As lots of you know, Disturbed loves the use of their dual kick drums and theirs seem to be tuned lower than most bands. So a sub ends up having to reproduce *VERY* rapid double kicks. There is a drum solo right around 3:30 of this track. The Mag reproduced everything perfectly. I don't even remember the DIYMA R12, which has been my reference sub for SQ, reproducing that solo as well.

Brian Setzer Orchestra Live in Japan - Caravan
This song is an instrumental with TONS of drums and a stand up bass being some of the focal points in the song. There is not only a lot going on, but it's live and in a large venue. The notes aren't forceful or overpowering at all. Granted, my front stage is doing the majority of work on this recording, but a sub that can't blend or be transparent would really screw things up. The Mag excels here as it blends in just fine. There's a great stand up bass solo where the guy is prodcing notes about as low as stand up can produce. The entire thing sounds real and stays out in front of you no matter the volume level. We're talking LOW bass during this passage, yet the Mag doesn't draw any attention to itself.

Wagner - Ride of the Valkyries
This is a complex piece of music that isn't easy to reproduce well. The Mag showed it's ability to be light and agile during all of the fast paced music, making sure to only add the nuances that were supposed to be there without adding any unrequired heft or force to the notes. On the crescendo passages the tympany drums thundered to life with realism that I've not heard in a long time. This was an incredible track to listen to and gave me chills.

From there I went on to lots of random music to see if I could find a way to strain or trip up the Mag. That didn't happen.  I went from White Zombie, to Fear Factory, Lil' John, Michael Jackson, DJ Dara, and ended up with the 1812 Overture. I went through all these tracks at normal volume, then went back through them at a HIGH volume level. Everything came through beautifully. If anything, I just wish my car didn't have so much cabin gain. I have the Mag at -12.5db on my DRZ to keep it blended in with the rest of the system. I guess that's a good problem to have though.  This sub just plays what you ask it to play and it stays linear doing it. 

I do have one gripe about the sub and that's about the trim ring around the outside of the sub. It's very thick and is fairly difficult to deal with when mounting the sub. I almost put my screwdriver into the surround twice when mounting this thing to the box. I guess I'm just a fan of the old school look though. That's honestly the only negative I have about the sub. All in all, a HUGE thumbs up needs to go out to Nick and the crew at SI. You've got a winner on your hands here!

Zach


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## FaintReality (May 15, 2005)

I have read nothing but positive reviews about this sub, in which I think im gonna bite the bullett and pick one up for my new SQ install. Now if I only did not have to wait, ugh

Thanks for the review!

dave


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Dave,

I'd say that it's a safe bet to order one for your new install. I think that it would be hard to not like the new Mag.

Zach


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

You won't have to wait long.  We're getting another batch in very soon. Right now they're on a boat but they'll be here in the states and to our shop by early January.


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## dyno (Jan 15, 2008)

How would the BM compare sonically to the Mag V4? I'd love to go with the Mag for fidelity but prefer the space savings of the BM....I'm running a single 10" (PG RSDC10.4) but want alittle more output.


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## DonovanM (Nov 1, 2006)

Electrodynamic said:


> You won't have to wait long.  We're getting another batch in very soon. Right now they're on a boat but they'll be here in the states and to our shop by early January.


Just out of curiosity, where are they made?

I'm liking the looks of this sub, and the words... one may find it's way fiberglassed into one of the corners of my trunk 

Up next, I want to see this thing on the Klippel


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

They're made in 3 different locations, so narrowing it down to one really doesn't do anyone any good. 

Compared to the BM - well we can't say at this point. We've made multiple motor revisions and completely changed the diaphragm (cone), so we need to wait to get the new prototype before saying anything. 

However, going from the 10" that you have to a 12" with 13mm of one-way linear throw is going to be a BIG change. Keep in mind our subs aren't for sheer output, they're for super clean, good amounts of output. A single Mag or BM won't get you into the 140's, but they'll get you into the mid 130's (well...a Mag will).


----------



## DonovanM (Nov 1, 2006)

Electrodynamic said:


> They're made in 3 different locations, so narrowing it down to one really doesn't do anyone any good.
> 
> Compared to the BM - well we can't say at this point. We've made multiple motor revisions and completely changed the diaphragm (cone), so we need to wait to get the new prototype before saying anything.
> 
> However, going from the 10" that you have to a 12" with 13mm of one-way linear throw is going to be a BIG change. Keep in mind our subs aren't for sheer output, they're for super clean, good amounts of output. A single Mag or BM won't get you into the 140's, but they'll get you into the mid 130's (well...a Mag will).


And those three locations are...?


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

DonovanM said:


> Just out of curiosity, where are they made?
> 
> I'm liking the looks of this sub, and the words... one may find it's way fiberglassed into one of the corners of my trunk
> 
> Up next, I want to see this thing on the Klippel


When the Klippel finally gets up and running again, I'd be willing to send out my Mag to get tested. I have several more business trips coming up next year so it wouldn't bother me at all to have it gone for testing while I was out of town. I'm also very interested to see how this sub measures.

Zach


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## MaXaZoR (Apr 1, 2007)

Anyone know if they have any plans on coming out with a 10in version of this sub?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Nope, no 10's in the Mag series.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

DonovanM said:


> Just out of curiosity, where are they made?


3 different locations in Asia with the majority of the work being done in China (where all of our coveted super-woofers parts come from anyway). By "our" I mean all internet subwoofers.


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## sundownz (Apr 13, 2007)

Midgets craft them on the top of the highest mountain peak in Tibet.

... just what I heard 

Good review!


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

sundownz said:


> Midgets craft them on the top of the highest mountain peak in Tibet.
> 
> ... just what I heard
> 
> Good review!


Hey, I told you to _*SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!*_ *sigh* I guess you can't trust anybody these days. My plan has been ruined. :shrug:


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

sundownz said:


> Midgets craft them on the top of the highest mountain peak in Tibet.
> 
> ... just what I heard
> 
> Good review!


Well, that explains those tiny fingerprint smudges on the basket now. 

Thanks Jacob.

Zach


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## mSaLL150 (Aug 14, 2008)

I got a chance to listen to the Mag today thanks to Zach.

This is a great sounding driver. Talk about bass up front...the kick drums literally sounded like they were coming from the speedometer in Zach's car (the speedo is somewhat in the center of the dash) and it blends very well. It sounded great on all kinds of music. I was beyond impressed. 

This makes me more excited for the BMs.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

With the new additions/changes to the BM's design you'll be really impressed with them when they come out. (PS: we're just waiting on the tooling to be finished on the new cone before a proto is made).


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> With the new additions/changes to the BM's design you'll be really impressed with them when they come out. (PS: we're just waiting on the tooling to be finished on the new cone before a proto is made).



Curses man, quit teasing.oke:

After reading about the V4, and hearing the V3 of the Mag in Megalo's car, I really want to try one or two BM's. The shallow will work perfectly for me, so get them out ASAP or ill send :Mr-T: after you


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

mSaLL150 said:


> I got a chance to listen to the Mag today thanks to Zach.
> 
> This is a great sounding driver. Talk about bass up front...the kick drums literally sounded like they were coming from the speedometer in Zach's car (the speedo is somewhat in the center of the dash) and it blends very well. It sounded great on all kinds of music. I was beyond impressed.
> 
> This makes me more excited for the BMs.


Thanks for the kind words Marc. It was cool hanging out and doing some listening yesterday.

Zach


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Good reviews Zach and Joe :sunny:


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

Great review for sure and as I expected :happy:


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## dyno (Jan 15, 2008)

Electrodynamic said:


> They're made in 3 different locations, so narrowing it down to one really doesn't do anyone any good.
> 
> Compared to the BM - well we can't say at this point. We've made multiple motor revisions and completely changed the diaphragm (cone), so we need to wait to get the new prototype before saying anything.
> 
> However, going from the 10" that you have to a 12" with 13mm of one-way linear throw is going to be a BIG change. Keep in mind our subs aren't for sheer output, they're for super clean, good amounts of output. A single Mag or BM won't get you into the 140's, but they'll get you into the mid 130's (well...a Mag will).


That sounds really exciting. I understand you had a proto that was quite good and it's great that improvements are being sought.

The single 10" is pretty good but gets strained and a bit sloppy at higher volumes. Xmax is rated at around 15mm so a larger Sd at a comparable Xmax should prove very satisfying. I'm an SQ first guy so it should have plenty of output. It will be powered by a Digital Designs M80 which should give it around 600 watts at 2ohm or 800 at 1ohm depending.

Is 0.5 cu ft still the target box volume? I'm tempted to fire up the tablesaw right now!


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Sorry to have missed the question, but yes, target volume for the BM v2's is 0.5 ft^3. And again, the BM v2's are a sealed-only woofer just like the Mag v4's.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

If the BM's come anywhere close to the Mag in terms of SQ, then you're going to have a GREAT shallow mount sub on your hands Nick.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

^^^WERD! Just make sure you hit that target volume or it'll kinda defeat the purpose. lol


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

It hits the target volume. Nothing is being changed except the cone assembly, so parameters are staying the same. 0.5 ft^3 sealed here we come!


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## finfinder (Apr 15, 2006)

Price of the BMv2 ?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Hopefully we'll be able to keep it under $200 shipped, but we're not certain at this point. We just shelled out a lot of money to re-tool the cone assembly (it's more than one piece) so we'll have to factor all of that into the new quote that we receive. We'll keep our newsletter informed though.

The BM v2 has ended up being more involved than the Mag has been as far as tooling is concerned. Of course, I spent over two years working on the Mag v4 so I nailed the design down over two years. Shoving similar performance into half the enclosure volume and over 2" shallower has proven to be more difficult than I anticipated. And as anyone who knows me can attest - I'm an anal retentive bastard, which means I don't release anything until I'm over 100% satisfied with it.


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## hobie1dog (Apr 9, 2008)

BM's should sell like hotcakes at St Alphonzo's Breakfast.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

More input!!

So the Mag is back in my car again and this time it's LP'd at 100Hz with a 12db/oct slope. WAY better this way. The Mag really shines when asked to play up a bit higher. I like it MUCH better crossed high then I did when I had it LP'd at either 50Hz or 63Hz. Beautiful detail and I think that the paper cone lends itself to amazing reproduction of drums!!

There should be an addition to this review soon from Jason, who was nice enough to meet up with me and have a listen. As per usual, we went through most genres of music during that listening session and I look forward to his thoughts.

Zach


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Great additional input! Now I'm going to have to swap x-over settings on the 3sixty.2 on the way home and have a listen. I remember what it sounded like in the hatch but I haven't tried it in my new coupe x'd-over high yet.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Zach - which box is it in now? I'll have a listen tomorrow.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Zach - which box is it in now? I'll have a listen tomorrow.


Still in the big box. But I'll have it in one of the 2 sidewall fiberglass boxes by the end of the weekend. Inverted of course.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Why? The mag might actually fit correctly.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Why? The mag might actually fit correctly.


LOL! Just want to make sure I give them enough space. Since we figured .85 ft^3 + heavy stuffing + inverted should = 1 ft^3 that should be ideal.

Thoughts Nick?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

0.85 ft^3 with approx. 0.8 lbs of stuffing should work just fine. I honestly don't know what happened the time you shoved it into 0.6 or whatever it was and you had zero output except that one coil was out of phase. 

*edit* When I think about it - you did have it in an enclosure that was 30% too small for the driver. As long as you keep your net volume at/near the 1 ft^3 recommended you should be OK. 

But back OT, 0.85 with stuffing should prove to be enough for what you're wanting to do. I've got mine in 0.80 right now with no fill and it performs quite nicely even below 30 Hz.   The whole car shakes a little (seats, floor board, doors - the doors are becoming a ***** without me deadening them) with anything under 30 Hz so there's plenty of output.

I can't wait to get really strapped down on my install and get the trio of them down the spare tire well.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I want to begin with a word of gratitude to boosterdex and his lovely wife for driving 3 hours round trip so I might audition the Mag. I was in San Jose for business, and they agreed to meet me ‘half way’ so I might have the opportunity to hear this sub. Their willingness to take 5 hours out a Thursday evening demonstrates a wonderful part of this community / hobby of car audio. 

Unfortunately, the audition may be skewed due to the quality of his equipment and install compared to my vehicle. I have never heard a car system this good. The front stage was flawless – incredibly enjoyable to listen to. 

On to the Mag. We listened to the Mag for about an hour and a half. I brought a few CD’s and he played a few selections to demonstrate certain characteristics. This is my first experience with a 12” subwoofer. I have only ever had single 10” subs in my vehicles. My misconception has been that 12’s are primarily for SPL – sloppy sounding – not for the sound quality application that I desire. I was very impressed by the overall sound – very quick, deep, and accurate.

*Simplified:* We played selections from this Charlotte, NC band’s two CD’s _Smile_ and _Elephant Sky_. The Mag reproduced the low strikes of the kick drum and played the bass guitar immaculately. I was amazed when he told me the Mag was only seeing 500 watts. Very nice volume that blended exceptionally well with the front stage once we adjusted down the sub volume control on his amp. If you have not heard of this band, I would encourage you to hit their website and take a listen. 

*Korn:* I really wanted to hear how this sub reproduces one of my favorite bass players. I was not let down – the album _Follow the Leader_ has fast, tight bass sections and fairly boomy tones as well. The Mag played both with authority. 

*Edgewater:* On _South of Sideways_, the integration of the kick drum and the fantastic bass guitar demonstrated the overall quality of the bass sounds and the ability to blend with the front mid bass drivers. Again, I was very impressed with the Mag and Zach’s system – this is the best I’ve heard this album.

*Alana Davis: *Her album _Fortune Cookies _was selected to test the woofer’s ability to show finesse with jazzy / folksy material. The Mag was very good at the more subtle material – keeping the sub material in the background of Alana’s sexy voice. 

Zach played some Primus at a little higher volume level – showing off the Mag’s ability to very accurately play the triple kick drum strikes – great attack – very detailed. 

Thank you Zach for this opportunity to meet you both and listen to your wonderful system. I was able to experience a very realistic, and very impressive display of the performance of this subwoofer. My mind is made up now, and I’m quite confident that I’ll be able to achieve similar results in my vehicle.


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## hobie1dog (Apr 9, 2008)

Sounds like more people need to be able to hear how good the SQ of this driver really is.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

hobie1dog said:


> Sounds like more people need to be able to hear how good the SQ of this driver really is.


Yeah, I think that this is a VERY capable driver. I also think that Nick needs to up production on these things.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for the additional review! I'm glad we were able to shed the misconception of requiring 10's or 8's for tight bass.  

Zach, the next batch of Mag's should be in by late next week...err, this week rather (fingers crossed). We're also having another batch started so we can possibly avoid running out this time.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> Thanks for the additional review! I'm glad we were able to shed the misconception of requiring 10's or 8's for tight bass.
> 
> Zach, the next batch of Mag's should be in by late next week...err, this week rather (fingers crossed). We're also having another batch started so we can possibly avoid running out this time.


That sounds like a great idea Nick.  Almost every person that has sat in my car and listened to the Mag is in line to order one. That says something if you ask me.


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## FaintReality (May 15, 2005)

Mine is on the way as we speak and should be here Thursday the 15th 

Dave


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## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

I hate to dig this thread up but I didn't want to create a new thread so I'm just gonna add on to this one.

I received the SI Mag on Tuesday. Enclosure is 1.0 cu. ft. sealed, stuff with 1 lb. of polyfill. The Mag is being powered off a Xenon 600.1. Sub is wired for 4 ohms.

Sub was well-packaged, double-boxed, which is important and often overlooked. Build quality was top-notch. The design is very original and unique. I haven't seen another sub with a shallow design/basket with this kind of performance. Kudos for originality blended with functionality. It is also VERY nice to have such a high performance sub weigh so little (~20 lbs.). Being an old guy, I also enjoyed the simple elegance of the Mag - clean and simple without all the BS bling.

Performance of the Mag was outstanding. The Mag sounds fantastic right out of the box with little or no tuning - a rare achievement. The low end sound was really smooth and soft but the Mag also played 100Hz and above very well.

Even though the sub is still breaking in, output was better than expected. The Mag will get very loud off lower wattage than most of us are used to, especially considering it is in a sealed enclosure. Sensitivity was exceptional and another added bonus.

I have always been a big fan of the DIYMA 12 and I still think the DIYMA 12 is SLIGHTLY better sounding than the Mag but the Mag has advantages over the DIYMA 12 while the Mag doesn't have any disadvantages.

In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say the SI Mag is the best all-around subwoofer I've ever used. I still love the DIYMA 12 but the Mag is a fantastic subwoofer without any (glaring) flaws and should fit just about anyone's need for a great sounding driver that also has great output in a small enclosure.

Nick should be congratulated on a great product that really delivers. I liked this driver so much, I just bought another!


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I couldn't agree more with your entire review Steve. Nick really hit a home run with this sub. I can't wait to get my Mag installed into my RX-7!


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## mSaLL150 (Aug 14, 2008)

Nice review. More positive reviews for the Mag just keeps making me more excited for the BMs.


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## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

I've just been uber impressed with the SI Mag. It really defines SQL. And I've used lots of subs, including the beloved JBL WGTi's. 

I'm just surprised Nick was able to manufacture and sell the sub for $250. I would've thought tooling alone would drive up the end user cost. The basket/motor assembly certainly seem to be custom.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

SteveLPfreak said:


> I've just been uber impressed with the SI Mag. It really defines SQL. And I've used lots of subs, including the beloved JBL WGTi's.
> 
> I'm just surprised Nick was able to manufacture and sell the sub for $250. I would've thought tooling alone would drive up the end user cost. The basket/motor assembly certainly seem to be custom.


I probably shouldn't say this out loud, but I am surprised at the cost of the Mag. It would be worth a decent bit more than what Nick charges.


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## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> I probably shouldn't say this out loud, but I am surprised at the cost of the Mag. It would be worth a decent bit more than what Nick charges.


Not only the cost but the quality and sound of the driver as well. Although there is quite a bit of discussion on this forum concerning the SI Mag, I'm surprised there aren't more using them. The Mag will satisfy just about anyone and has exactly what everyone seems to want - great sound, great output in a smallish enclosure.

I REALLY want to see the Mag Klippel tested.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

SteveLPfreak said:


> Not only the cost but the quality and sound of the driver as well. Although there is quite a bit of discussion on this forum concerning the SI Mag, I'm surprised there aren't more using them. The Mag will satisfy just about anyone and has exactly what everyone seems to want - great sound, great output in a smallish enclosure.
> 
> I REALLY want to see the Mag Klippel tested.


The quality of build and the sound of the driver are what I was expecting from an SI product. But the low price point really surprised me after hearing the sub.

I know that almost everyone who auditioned the Mag in my car ended up ordering one. But I'm a bit surprised as well that more people on here haven't snatched one or two of these up yet. 

IIRC, Nick agreed to send MVM a Mag to have it Klippel tested. Either that or to get Klippel results from a 3rd party tester to post on here. I know that he wants the specs out on this sub just as bad as we want to see them.


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## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

I wish Nick and SI well. The DIYMA and car audio community in general needs such innovative and high quality products.

We need more SI Mags and DIYMA 12's

Boostedrex - thanks for letting me hijack your thread.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

This was a thread for any and all who have tried out a Mag to give their review of it. I'm glad to have more input to the thread. 

By the way, what car is the Mag installed in?


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## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> This was a thread for any and all who have tried out a Mag to give their review of it. I'm glad to have more input to the thread.
> 
> By the way, what car is the Mag installed in?


My daily driver is a 97 Nissan Maxima. Nice ride for car audio. I can pretty easily fit 8's in the door and the arm rest in the rear folds down to make it easy for a single sub to fire in the passenger cabin.

I had recently been running a RE Audio SX12 in a vented enclosure so I had a lot of output to compare to the SI Mag.


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## Get_Zwole (Nov 15, 2008)

man this thread is pulling me towards the mag for sure. It seems to fit the bill nicely for me. I need a smaller enclosure and a little less weight. I want the diyma but im afraid on a few songs ill miss a little more low end. Im def. enjoying this thread its 3am and im still reading i gotta get some sleep.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for the review Steve.  You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I hate lugging around heavy subwoofers. When I throw around a Mag v4 compared to other heavier subs I always say to myself "there's no way I'm going back to heavy subs." When you hear what the Mag v4 is capable of doing in such a tiny package it makes you re-think a lot of subwoofer installs. And with the 5.5" overall depth it opens the door for install possibilities. 

The basket is an open-tool, but everything internally was custom tooled. The cone is a unique blend of paper and other neat materials (kevlar bits are mixed in there as well ) but the surround is an open tool - just to cover my arse here before anyone gets bent out of shape.

I will get the Mag v4 Klippel tested but I'm going to have it done via a 3'rd party. I want the THD measurements done in an anechoic chamber and I'm pretty sure I've tracked down a facility that can do it for me. Having the Klippel bolted down to a couple thousand pound slab of granite is also a nice feature.

I could have (should have ) charged more for the Mag v4 but I wanted it to stay in the sub-$250 price range.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Get_Zwole said:


> man this thread is pulling me towards the mag for sure. It seems to fit the bill nicely for me. I need a smaller enclosure and a little less weight. I want the diyma but im afraid on a few songs ill miss a little more low end. Im def. enjoying this thread its 3am and im still reading i gotta get some sleep.


I'd suggest getting one. I HIGHLY doubt you wouldn't love it. And if you didn't, it would be a piece of cake to re-sell it. Just a thought. 

And Nick, your first beer is on me when we all meet up in May. And be expecting some more reviews on the Mag as I'm getting ready to "loan out" my Mag to a few more locals for them to play with it. 

Zach


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Cool!

I've gotta warn you though, I'm not a cheap date. I don't drink cheap beer.


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## Get_Zwole (Nov 15, 2008)

Boostedrex said:


> I'd suggest getting one. I HIGHLY doubt you wouldn't love it. And if you didn't, it would be a piece of cake to re-sell it. Just a thought.
> 
> Zach


thats what im thinkin it would be really easy to resell if i didnt, after all the reviews though i dont see how it wouldnt be exactly what im looking for lol. Once i get my check this week ill see about ordering one. 

In stock right now or still waiting on new ones?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

They're in stock.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> Cool!
> 
> I've gotta warn you though, I'm not a cheap date. I don't drink cheap beer.


No worries, I don't either. 




Get_Zwole said:


> thats what im thinkin it would be really easy to resell if i didnt, after all the reviews though i dont see how it wouldnt be exactly what im looking for lol. Once i get my check this week ill see about ordering one.
> 
> In stock right now or still waiting on new ones?


I say go for it! And I replied to your post in the comparison thread letting you know that your JL 500/1 will power a Mag just fine so you don't have to worry about upgrading your amp.


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## Get_Zwole (Nov 15, 2008)

Electrodynamic said:


> They're in stock.


nice ill be ordering probably in the next 5 days or so.


Boostedrex said:


> I say go for it! And I replied to your post in the comparison thread letting you know that your JL 500/1 will power a Mag just fine so you don't have to worry about upgrading your amp.


Sweet deal now that i dont have to buy another amp thats prob exactly what ill do. Thanks for the great review man i value your opinion alot on this forum. Cant wait to get one on order :laugh:


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

As Zach said in another thread, the 500/1 will be more than enough power to get a lot of output out of the Mag v4. Just because it's rated at up to 1000 watts doesn't mean it has a power requirement of 1000 watts.  I just got done riding in one of our SQ vehicles (a Scion TC with a single Mag v4 powered by a SAZ-100.2) and it has a LOT of output. The 1000 watt thing is purely a physical power handling standpoint when the driver is coupled to a 1 ft^3 sealed enclosure. The TC has the Mag in 1.15 cubes and with the ~500 watts he's sending it the driver is very impressive. He made the comment yesterday that he loves driving everywhere just because of his stereo.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> As Zach said in another thread, the 500/1 will be more than enough power to get a lot of output out of the Mag v4. Just because it's rated at up to 1000 watts doesn't mean it has a power requirement of 1000 watts.  I just got done riding in one of our SQ vehicles (a Scion TC with a single Mag v4 powered by a SAZ-100.2) and it has a LOT of output. The 1000 watt thing is purely a physical power handling standpoint when the driver is coupled to a 1 ft^3 sealed enclosure. The TC has the Mag in 1.15 cubes and with the ~500 watts he's sending it the driver is very impressive. He made the comment yesterday that he loves driving everywhere just because of his stereo.


Not a surprise here, but Nick knows what he's talking about. LOL! I loved the Mag in 1.25 ft^3 with as little as 300 watts to it. This sub is WAY more efficient than anyone is thinking.


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## m115919h (Jun 12, 2008)

I just got my SI Mag v4 a few days ago and I can't wait to get into my new car a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP  (well new to me anyway) which I haven't even picked up from the dealers yet. Unfortunately, I won't have the system installed until sometime in the spring, damn Maine winters . I really wish I had a heated garage!!


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## Get_Zwole (Nov 15, 2008)

m115919h said:


> I just got my SI Mag v4 a few days ago and I can't wait to get into my new car a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP  (well new to me anyway) which I haven't even picked up from the dealers yet. Unfortunately, I won't have the system installed until sometime in the spring, damn Maine winters . I really wish I had a heated garage!!


ehh you will be ok haha just put on some goose down and throw a space heater in there haha. Easy for me to say Im sure you guys have been negatives for a while now.


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## jwdrums0 (Nov 12, 2007)

Hey people,

I don't know if anyone else has done this yet, but I just finished a little session on the Term-Lab with the fellas after work today. We were playing with some drivers and enclosures we've been experimenting with, and for fun we measured the Mag (in it's 1.09cu box) running off a Digital Designs M1a @ 1 ohm :surprised:

With the amp's gains set on, well, shall we just say 'erring on the careful side of crazy' , the Mag managed a *130.5 dB* which occurred at around 48Hz. I'd love to hear any other owners' measurements if you've tried...If not, there's an fyi for ya!

For fear of possible embarrassment in the event of this number being badly eclipsed by some other more savvy members here, I'll offer this caveat: I didn't try too hard to achieve peak SPL (for one, the box was just sitting in the trunk loose) and we only ran a couple of sweeps on the Mag (for fear of getting carried away and cooking the poor thing). Also bear in mind this is a Term-Lab figure. So all in all I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see some higher numbers than this from other guys. Post 'em!

--Joe


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## jdc753 (Nov 14, 2007)

m115919h said:


> I just got my SI Mag v4 a few days ago and I can't wait to get into my new car a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP  (well new to me anyway) which I haven't even picked up from the dealers yet. Unfortunately, I won't have the system installed until sometime in the spring, damn Maine winters . I really wish I had a heated garage!!


Its well worth the wait. Your ears will be thanking you for hours when you get it in. Winters and no heated garage really does suck.


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## m115919h (Jun 12, 2008)

Get_Zwole said:


> ehh you will be ok haha just put on some goose down and throw a space heater in there haha. Easy for me to say Im sure you guys have been negatives for a while now.





jdc753 said:


> Its well worth the wait. Your ears will be thanking you for hours when you get it in. Winters and no heated garage really does suck.


Actually its a barn, but I do have a kerosene forced air heater and it barely warms the barn up when the temp outside is in the single digits or colder. I plan on sound deadening the heck out of the car and that is just not going to happen with temps as low as they are. So I will just have to live with the stock radio for the time being.  When the temp does rise and I get around to doing the build I will make sure to post it in build log forum.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

We managed a 136 (Term Lab, legal on the windshield) with the proto Mag in a 0.8 ft^3 sealed enclosure in a '94 Civic hatchback. But that was right before we tried pouring ~1400 watts to it and blew it up.


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## B5I8 (Feb 7, 2009)

Will these Mag's hit low (at least down to 20Hz) with any authority? I'm currently running two TC OEM-10's and while they sound alright I'm looking for something better. Originally I was looking into two iDMax 10's to replace the TC's but these Mag's just might fit the bill especially with the small enclosure requirements. I would probably run two of these Mag's in 2.00ft^3 with a Sundown SAZ-1500D and I guess it would be run at .5 ohms since these Mag's don't come in a dual 4 ohm config. My front stage is a set of Seas Lotus Reference run active with a SAX-100.4 bridged for the mids and an SAX-100.2 for the tweets in case anyone was wondering. My front stage sounds phenomenal but I feel my low end is lacking in the SQ department. I assume these Mag 12's should be able to go lower and louder than the subs I have now but would like to hear some feedback. Should I stick to the iDMax 10's or should I give the Mag's a try?


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## hobie1dog (Apr 9, 2008)

B5I8 said:


> Will these Mag's hit low (at least down to 20Hz) with any authority? I'm currently running two TC OEM-10's and while they sound alright I'm looking for something better. Originally I was looking into two iDMax 10's to replace the TC's but these Mag's just might fit the bill especially with the small enclosure requirements. I would probably run two of these Mag's in 2.00ft^3 with a Sundown SAZ-1500D and I guess it would be run at .5 ohms since these Mag's don't come in a dual 4 ohm config. My front stage is a set of Seas Lotus Reference run active with a SAX-100.4 bridged for the mids and an SAX-100.2 for the tweets in case anyone was wondering. My front stage sounds phenomenal but I feel my low end is lacking in the SQ department. I assume these Mag 12's should be able to go lower and louder than the subs I have now but would like to hear some feedback. Should I stick to the iDMax 10's or should I give the Mag's a try?


Sounds like you have some great components so far which would match up very nicely with the new Mags. They do sound incredibly tight and accurate., along with having a small box requirement and shallow as well. Let us know if you try a pair of them.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

1) You're on an SQ forum and asked if it will "hit low." There is more to good bass than colon cleansing, bottom feeding, inaudible, emanations. 
2) It's in a car, almost anything will hit 20Hz with authority.
3) What are you listening to that actually has 20Hz content?
4) Yes, the Mag will play that low...and with authority.


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## B5I8 (Feb 7, 2009)

quality_sound said:


> 1) You're on an SQ forum and asked if it will "hit low."
> 2) It's in a car, almost anything will hit 20Hz with authority.
> 3) What are you listening to that actually has 20Hz content?
> 4) Yes, the Mag will play that low...and with authority.


My TC's don't play that low with any authority I think this may be because the box is a little too small. I listen to all sorts of music and yes, some songs actually have sub 20Hz notes in them. I've heard iDMax's before and loved the way they sound but I never heard a SI Mag although I've heard of them which is why I would like an opinion from someone who's heard both. I know this is an SQ forum but I'm hoping a SQL question isn't out of order. Thanks for the feedback so far.


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## SQplease (Jul 23, 2008)

Wow seeing that I am now in the market for sub's, I am totally confused, I was thinking either the morel ultimo, or the dyno esotar 1200, but seeing this write up by creditable people has got me to wondering, I can spend $500 for two si with my Arc 2300 in mono which is about 1300watts @4ohm I don't know what that will do, but from the sounds of it that will be all i need right?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes, that is all the power that you'll need. As the others have attested to, the Mag's don't need a lot of power. With over 600 watts to each driver you will get a LOT of output from a pair of Mag's.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

B5I8 said:


> My TC's don't play that low with any authority I think this may be because the box is a little too small. I listen to all sorts of music and yes, some songs actually have sub 20Hz notes in them. I've heard iDMax's before and loved the way they sound but I never heard a SI Mag although I've heard of them which is why I would like an opinion from someone who's heard both. I know this is an SQ forum but I'm hoping a SQL question isn't out of order. Thanks for the feedback so far.


I know it's a little taboo asking about SQL on this forum but the Mag v4 can dig down as low as you want to. You'll have no problem reproducing subsonics as long as you throw it in 1 ft^3 sealed. Just be weary - it won't be distorted like other drivers. It's super clean even at the extremes.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

^^^He ain't lyin'!


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## B5I8 (Feb 7, 2009)

Electrodynamic said:


> I know it's a little taboo asking about SQL on this forum but the Mag v4 can dig down as low as you want to. You'll have no problem reproducing subsonics as long as you throw it in 1 ft^3 sealed. Just be weary - it won't be distorted like other drivers. It's super clean even at the extremes.


That sounds like what I'm looking for. So I would need 1ft^3 per driver getting nearly 800W per. Is that before displacement or after? Also is it recommended to do one big chamber or separate since I plan on running two subs?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

It doesn't matter whether or not you run a single chamber or dual chambers. The arguments can go on for as long as we can stand reading them whether or not a single chamber is better or a dual chamber is better, but I'll bet you that blind folded you can't tell the difference. 

And as long as you aim for 1 ft^3 before driver displacement and stuff the enclosure with about a half a pound of polyfill, you'll be good to go!


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

ninja edit. double post.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Agreed. I'm going to run my subs common simply because there's no way I can divide it even because of the shape. Manville suggested I separate the subs but only to stiffen the box, not because it would be detrimental if I didn't.

And the Mag in a 1cf box will get SILLY loud with very little power.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

B5I8 said:


> My TC's don't play that low with any authority I think this may be because the box is a little too small. I listen to all sorts of music and yes, some songs actually have sub 20Hz notes in them. I've heard iDMax's before and loved the way they sound but I never heard a SI Mag although I've heard of them which is why I would like an opinion from someone who's heard both. I know this is an SQ forum but I'm hoping a SQL question isn't out of order. Thanks for the feedback so far.


If you'd like to come at least part of the way up to Sacramento, I'll meet you somewhere along the way with my Mag and it's 1.3ft^3 test box. You can throw it in your car and have a listen if you'd like. The closer you can get to Sac, the better. But I'd be fine with that if you'd be interested. I'm sure that you'll be more than impressed with what a single Mag can do with very little power. An ID Max can't compare to the Mag in terms of SQ and low distortion IMHO. Then again, I've never liked the sound of the IDMax, except for IB installs. They're just too thick sounding for my taste.

Zach


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## B5I8 (Feb 7, 2009)

Boostedrex said:


> If you'd like to come at least part of the way up to Sacramento, I'll meet you somewhere along the way with my Mag and it's 1.3ft^3 test box. You can throw it in your car and have a listen if you'd like. The closer you can get to Sac, the better. But I'd be fine with that if you'd be interested. I'm sure that you'll be more than impressed with what a single Mag can do with very little power. An ID Max can't compare to the Mag in terms of SQ and low distortion IMHO. Then again, I've never liked the sound of the IDMax, except for IB installs. They're just too thick sounding for my taste.
> 
> Zach


I don't think I can put it in my car since my box is bolted to my hatch and it's a real pain to remove, but I would definitely meet you half way to have a listen to yours. Where and when were you thinking?


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I don't actually run the Mag in my car because I couldn't fit a 1 ft^3 box. But we can meet half way and figure something out. I'm in Guam right now though.


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## SQplease (Jul 23, 2008)

looking for a box for two of those subs, where do I start? here?
New 12 Inch Sealed Dual Sub Box Woofer Car SUV Box12D - eBay (item 330307824131 end time Feb-20-09 17:16:47 PST)


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

For a Mag v4 it's a tad big, but it'll work out just fine if you've got 750 watts or so per driver. If you've got 1000 watts per driver it'll be a tad too much unless you adjust your gains appropriately.


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## SQplease (Jul 23, 2008)

a 2300SE 1300wts to both what do I need?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

You could adjust the gains so that you're only using about 750 watts per driver. Or you could add wood inside the enclosure to drop the volume down to 1 ft^3 per driver. Even then they'll only handle up to 1000 watts. The Mag v4's aren't meant for soaking up power - they're meant to deliver lots of great sound quality and output without very much input. The difference between 1300 watts and 1000 watts of input is approximately a 1.1 dB difference in output, which you won't be able to detect. 3 dB is a noticeable gain, but 1.1 dB is hardly anything.

You see, if you take 1300 (the power you're proposing to have and deliver) and divide it by 1000 (the peak of what the Mag's are capable of handling) you get 1.3. Then hit the 'log' button your calculator and you get 0.1139. Multiply that times 10 and you get a 1.1 dB difference in output.

So if you dial down the gain on your amp, you'll be fine after you fill that specific enclosure with some wood to take up the extra 0.25 ft^3 of enclosure space per driver. And again, you won't have to worry about not having enough output with "only" using 1000 watts instead of 1300 watts.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Or you could take my approach and get WAY more amp then you need to push the drivers (like that SE2300) and just leave the gains bottomed out. Less "measured power" and plenty of headroom for dynamic peaks. That seems to work REALLY well in my car.


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## 94VG30DE (Nov 28, 2007)

So we have talked about the upper end of the power handling, but I have yet to see a low end. There is a lot of talk of great efficiency, but I'm curious about specifics. For one driver in 1ft^3, would 300 watts give it enough power? Or would 400 or 500 be a safer bet?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

300 is PLENTY of power for these. They really are very efficient, especially considering their max power rating.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> 300 is PLENTY of power for these. They really are very efficient, especially considering their max power rating.


+1

I wouldn't put anything less than 200 watts on them just because there are other drivers out there that are less expensive that will work great with only 150 watts. I mean, you can if you want to. It's all ultimately up to you how much power you put on the driver.

But 300-500 watts is a good amount of power and like quality_sound said, the drivers are very efficient. We only rated them at a peak RMS of 1000 watts because, well, that's what they'll handle in 1 ft^3. But power handling isn't a power requirement. 

It's not like a Mag v4 is going to be quieter with 300 watts than another driver in the same size sealed enclosure with much lower rated power handling. It will at least be as loud as the other driver in question. True efficiency in small sealed box enclosures (read: car audio) has quite the opposite to do with actual driver efficiency (the 1W/1M figure, or 2.83 volts depending on how deep you want to get into the conversation with impedance loads and voltage). We have a paper on why this is. Click the previous sentence to see the paper or this sentence to see the rest of our tech articles. Those should help explain things better.


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## SQplease (Jul 23, 2008)

so in other words I can take my 2300SE and use it in dual mono, which is about 340X2 and be OK? My next question where would I find a person who can make me a box for these subs, also using two subs feeding from the same 1300watts, does that not cut the power consumption in half? like 650 to each? strike that question I was thinking on the line of 4ohms, my amp is 650X2 @2ohms, are these speakers able to do a 4ohm configuration? well at 2ohms my amp would be the perfect power source for these subs in dual mono @ 650watts each.


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## Ziggy (Nov 29, 2007)

I put it to ya this way... 1 of them can get silly loud... and take for instance the jet taking off in Pink Floyd's "Learning to Fly" on the Pulse album... Handled that like like a friggin champ... I also have to chase down "new rattles" throughout my cab...
I haven't bench tested my nine.5, But at 1ohm, it will deliver well over 600watts... and my gains aren't set that high... Though I'm more focussed on tuning the front stage right now -I just feel confident that I don't have to "baby" the Mag... rather I have to baby me instead, and tone it down for my front stage... 2 of them would just be... well... Prolly alot of fun


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## SQplease (Jul 23, 2008)

your are running it at 1ohm? is there a sound difference in running 1,2,or 4ohms ? if so which ohm sounds best? what size box are you using? also any poly fill inside? I just want to get it right the first time, I am kinda tired after dealing with my front stage for so long, took me a while to achieve the Sq that i was looking for.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

4 ohm sounds best.


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## MrDave (May 19, 2008)

Would you run these Mags IB? Think it'd work/sound good?


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## Ziggy (Nov 29, 2007)

Running at 1 ohm -cause that's what I was already rigged up to do... I seriously may wind up running it at 4ohms down the road... SO with your amp's capability, I concur that you'll have plenty of power... 
I recommend building the box they recommend -and make it STURDY... Mine's at 1.6 -and I've taken good caution, but the Mag just handles it (and I mean -Like IN YO face!)... 

I'll block in some displacement -or build another box with the dimensions they said for 1.3 cubes... I also have another test cube box that I can play with to see what I like... 
I just wouldn't want to have to keep watching out for mechanical limits for the sub in a box that's too large -although I haven't heard as much as a hiccup yet... I haven't had enough time with it, other than to say -I really haven't juiced it, and I'm ready to start backing it off. 

The sub is more than what I thought it would be, and I'm looking forward to what it brings down the road... It certainly seems that it will NOT be going away from my possession for ANY reason.


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## SQplease (Jul 23, 2008)

sounds good


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## MrDave (May 19, 2008)

MrDave said:


> Would you run these Mags IB? Think it'd work/sound good?



......


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

MrDave said:


> ......


Nope. IB isn't an option since the Mag v4's were designed for small sealed boxes only. Technically you can do whatever you want and run one IB, but plan on it only handling less than or equal to 100 watts.


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## SQplease (Jul 23, 2008)

This picture on the side of the box, what size box is that for, because it says that the speaker is design for a 1cubic, but when doing the math it seems to be much more then 1728" and is more like 2088"


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

The box pictured is actually 0.8 ft^3, which is why we recommend stuffing the enclosure with polyfill.


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## SQplease (Jul 23, 2008)

gotcha, I am just trying to see which way i am going with the box, working on buying two of those, I am going to bypass the morel ultimo for now, and latter I will still get the morels, but then I'll be able to do a comparison on the two.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

SQplease said:


> gotcha, I am just trying to see which way i am going with the box, working on buying two of those, I am going to bypass the morel ultimo for now, and latter I will still get the morels, but then I'll be able to do a comparison on the two.


The Ultimo sub is way overrated/over priced IMHO. I just don't see the point in paying that much for a sub when it's not any better, or at least not enough to easily hear the difference, than a sub like the Mag. The point of diminishing returns is easily hit in the world of subs if you ask me. I think that you'll be VERY pleased with a pair of the new Mag's.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

^^^Werd. The Mag really is a very nice sub.


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## hernanrod (Jun 4, 2008)

okay, MAY may be a great woofer, as like DIYMA r12.... which anothers woofers are at the same level of this two? in sq terms, and compatible with a small boxes (1cu.ft max)

some dayton? some morel? jl?

I have to choose a woofer for my system, i like mag and diyma reviews, but i'd like to know about some others comparables subs...

thanks....


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

The Dayton HO subs are very nice subs as well. I wouldn't say that they are even with the Mag or DIYMA R12 though. The IDQ v3 is another sub that lands just barely underneath the Mag and R12. I for one wouldn't buy a Morel sub because I think they are grossly overpriced for what you're getting. Hertz makes an amazing sub as well, though I can't remember the model number. The Arc Audio Arc12 gets really good marks IMHO as an SQ sub that can take a beating.

To sumarize, there are LOTS of great SQ subs out there. But having listened to all the subs that I have listed in this post (as well as the rest of the thread) I don't feel that there are any subs out there that can match the Mag or the R12 in terms of pure SQ unless you want to step up to the high end Dynaudio sub.

Zach


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Dyn 12s are very nice as well but I have no idea how much space they need. Morel and Focal subs are up there too. Phase Linear...


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Oooh, I forgot about the Aliante's. And the Alto Mobile Falstaff's too for that matter.


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## monkeybutt (Oct 1, 2005)

Based on what I've read here on DIYMA, I decided to give the SI MagD2 v4 a try. First some background on my cars. I have an Acura CL-S which had a professional install done w/ sound deadening, old school Eclipse HU, Focal polykevlar comps, RF amps and IDQ sub. Simple install w/ midbass in doors and tweeters in kicks and sealed sub firing from trunk through the rear seat ski hole. I've had systems in my cars for thirty years and this was my first pro install. I've been extremely pleased w/ the sound and glitchless/noiseless performance.
My other car is an Acura TL w/ install done by myself. Similar configuration to other car but using newer Eclipse HU, CDT comps, RF/US Acous. amps and an IA ND12 sub, and raamat. Over years this install has never really gelled for me due to alternator whine, weak midbass, weak bass, soft highs. I was tempted to start "upgrading" parts, but after paying attention to advice from this forum about the importance of install, I tore the car down to rerun wiring, add sound deadener to door outer skins, more to inner skins, sound absorption in back of midbasses and re-aiming tweeters. Got rid of my alternator noise, got a much better quantity and quality of midbass, and improved detail. The overall sound was much more enjoyable, but the CL was still better. The sound was still a bit dry and lacking bottom end depth/impact. So finally we come to the SI Mag. Ordered on Monday and arrived Friday, and in perfect condition. As others have said sturdy build. Upon taking the old ND-12 out which is a very shallow sub, I'm glad the SI is also relatively shallow as I forgot I had cross-braced the enclosure along w/ the blackhole 5. Net volume is about 1.05 cu ft. SI mag wired in series for 4ohm. Sub gain was left at about 1/2 on the US Acoustics 2100 bridged to 300 watts, boost and all bass settings at flat/0, and lowpass at about 100hz w/ highpass to comps at 120hz. The sound? Well, I really am suspicious about reviews w/ seeming hyperbolic superlatives, but this sub has transformed my system. Yes same old **** about tight, authoratative, articulate bass yada, yada. However, listening to this lump of steel, wire, paper and rubber is about not hearing 'it'. It truly is transparent in performance and kind of spooky in how it is so easy to localize - to the front! I felt that the best strength of the old ND12 was its ability to bring the bass up front - the SI Mag is better in this respect. 
I am not sure why, but this sub has somehow made the midrange and particularly the vocal clarity not just clearer, but more palpable and coherent. I've only had a few hours session so far w/ some old school Tupac, Bone Thugs, Keola Beamer Slack key guitar, Blackeyed Peas, piano Ashkenazy, stuff that I'm intimately familiar with over various systems in/out of a car and the experiance is just damn pleasing. The SI Mag v4 has surpassed my expectations of a subwoofer and has allowed me to meet and beat the SQ in my CL! Can't tell you all how much it irked me how a shop could install in one day a better sound than what I could over years. Finally success. Thanks DIYMA and SI. Guess I'm done now...until I get a Mag for the CL Maybe active next? Dang.


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## hobie1dog (Apr 9, 2008)

Couldn't ask for a better compliment on that SI Mag using the word "transparent" That sums it all up right there.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Excellent review - thank you for the background on your two systems, and thank you for explaining the crossover points, etc. that you were using. It is awesome to hear that you can get such good sound out of 300 watts. 

I just bought my Mag last week - got a chance to meet Nick from SI - fantastic guy - really loves music and the accurate re-production of music. I had the chance to hear his two Mags on 2 Sundown 1000D's strapped - Wow! The subs can play very well with as little as 300 watts, but it can play well with a lot more than that. He could adjust the sub volume with his RF 360 - when the knob was set at 1/2 - the subs integrated perfectly with the front stage. When he turned the knob to 'full' - it got stupid loud, but completely clear and still musical - not just air moving. 

I am waiting to get my Zuki small mono, and then I'll build an enclosure for the Mag. I have always had a single 10" sealed sub system on less than 500 watts in the trunk of my BMW 325i. I have always had a hard time hearing the sub sound, and certainly haven't had the 'presence' of the sub sound that you are experiencing. I am really looking forward to the Mag with a bit more power. 

Thank you again for a great review.


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## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks for all the reviews, i can't wait to get mine next week, i don't think there's many of them over this side of the pond ?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Nice review.  

I got to show off the Lexus to Jason a few weeks ago and he really liked the way that it sounded. Of course I had to turn it up once for him to show him (how many rattles! j/k ) how loud they can get in such small boxes.  But after listening to Jason's system, which sounded very nice BTW, I found myself turning the subs down even more. Jason, the sub level is at the 11 'o clock position now, not the 12 'o clock position. Of course, for some songs I still bump up the level to jam a little bit more.

Once bertholomy gets his Zuki and Mag installed his system is going to sound a lot different/better and I know he's going to be pleased with the results.


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## monkeybutt (Oct 1, 2005)

Electrodynamic said:


> Nice review.
> 
> I got to show off the Lexus to Jason a few weeks ago and he really liked the way that it sounded. Of course I had to turn it up once for him to show him (how many rattles! j/k ) how loud they can get in such small boxes.  But after listening to Jason's system, which sounded very nice BTW, I found myself turning the subs down even more. Jason, the sub level is at the 11 'o clock position now, not the 12 'o clock position. Of course, for some songs I still bump up the level to jam a little bit more.
> 
> Once bertholomy gets his Zuki and Mag installed his system is going to sound a lot different/better and I know he's going to be pleased with the results.


Nick, dude thanks for designing and implementing the Mag! And yes, the only problem w/ the sub is that my previously buzz/rattle free (through much effort) doors were buzzing again. But nothing that a couple hours of diligence, swearing and odd pieces of SD didn't cure. Funny I, too, had my sub at 12 o'clock, but kicked back to 11 also...this thing can rock and I do have neighbors. I compliment your choice to provide a focused product that is not just another damn sub, but a sound reproducer that has exceeded my expectations of the category. Best regards, John.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

AND GET THE BM v.2 PROTO NOW!!!!!


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

subwoofery said:


> AND GET THE BM v.2 PROTO NOW!!!!!


We have pictures of it since the changes, but the changes have made room for other improvements. Once the new carrier/cone was made we had to make another change/improvement to the 10" spider. We should get Klippel results on it soon.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

monkeybutt said:


> Nick, dude thanks for designing and implementing the Mag! And yes, the only problem w/ the sub is that my previously buzz/rattle free (through much effort) doors were buzzing again. But nothing that a couple hours of diligence, swearing and odd pieces of SD didn't cure. Funny I, too, had my sub at 12 o'clock, but kicked back to 11 also...this thing can rock and I do have neighbors. I compliment your choice to provide a focused product that is not just another damn sub, but a sound reproducer that has exceeded my expectations of the category. Best regards, John.


Haha, not a problem.


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## 6262ms3 (Feb 27, 2008)

oh man, if the new BM can have the same transparent qualities with (relative) output being the only sacrifice in that thin/small of an enclosure I will be in heaven!


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

bertholomey said:


> I am waiting to get my Zuki small mono, and then I'll build an enclosure for the Mag. I have always had a single 10" sealed sub system on less than 500 watts in the trunk of my BMW 325i. I have always had a hard time hearing the sub sound, and certainly haven't had the 'presence' of the sub sound that you are experiencing. I am really looking forward to the Mag with a bit more power.
> 
> Thank you again for a great review.





andy335touring said:


> Thanks for all the reviews, i can't wait to get mine next week, i don't think there's many of them over this side of the pond ?


Please guys, post some reviews about the sub. 

Planning to give some updates of mine since it's broken in... 

Hope you like it, 
Kelvin


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

subwoofery said:


> Please guys, post some reviews about the sub.
> 
> Planning to give some updates of mine since it's broken in...
> 
> ...


And please do it in different threads!!  This thread has gotten out of hand and a lot of reviews inside this thread will be and/or _are_ being looked over because it's a review inside a review.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> And please do it in different threads!!  This thread has gotten out of hand and a lot of reviews inside this thread will be and/or _are_ being looked over because it's a review inside a review.


That's really only a problem to those who are too lazy to actually look for the information they want or the idiot noobs that come over from forums like CA.com. But I digress.....


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

True. It is the age of instant everything. If they can't find exactly what they're looking for in 0.1 seconds, then it takes too long.


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## bass_lover1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Electrodynamic said:


> True. It is the age of instant everything. If they can't find exactly what they're looking for in 0.1 seconds, then it takes too long.




I stopped reading your sentence about half way because it


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## DonovanM (Nov 1, 2006)

bass_lover1 said:


> I stopped reading your sentence about half way because it


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## JayRich (Mar 25, 2009)

So was there ever a direct comparison between the magv4 and the r12 in the same environment?


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## JayRich (Mar 25, 2009)

Boostedrex said:


> That's really only a problem to those who are too lazy to actually look for the information they want or the idiot noobs that come over from forums like CA.com. But I digress.....


Not everyone(myself) from ca.com is a noob. In fact I was just recently put on to this forum as I was sick and tired of everyone only wanting the loudest possible car with no or little regard for SQ. After reading threads here for the past hour or so, im glad I joined this forum.

P.S. Whats funny to me is that so many people on ca.com think that SQL means loud but doesn't totally sound like crap


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## bass_lover1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Jay, I'm not sure if you read through this entire thread, but I'm pretty sure Zach and Paul did offer up some listening comparisons between the two.

I'm pretty sure somewhere in the review section, either an R12 review or a Mag review, the two do get compared, I don't recall what thread it was in.


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## JayRich (Mar 25, 2009)

Thanks for the most part I did read through the thread and did get some references to the r12. Only thing is that I'm new to the r12 as well so It seemed as if the comparison was geared toward the member who is familiar with the diyma already. So I think that kinda the reason why I couldn't pinpoint the direct comparison


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

JayRich said:


> So was there ever a direct comparison between the magv4 and the r12 in the same environment?



Yes. Zach and I both started threads and we both listened to them in his xB.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Yes. Zach and I both started threads and we both listened to them in his xB.


Yeah, the threads were created almost back-to-back. Just search for "Mag" or "DIYMA" in this section of the forum and you'll find the threads.


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## JayRich (Mar 25, 2009)

Thanks


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## krazyl3gz (Mar 21, 2009)

Anyone got one of these in the Seattle, WA area? I'd like to listen to them before I make a purchase...


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## tceejay (Mar 3, 2008)

krazyl3gz... you got a pm.


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> If you'd like to come at least part of the way up to Sacramento, I'll meet you somewhere along the way with my Mag and it's 1.3ft^3 test box. You can throw it in your car and have a listen if you'd like. The closer you can get to Sac, the better. But I'd be fine with that if you'd be interested. I'm sure that you'll be more than impressed with what a single Mag can do with very little power. An ID Max can't compare to the Mag in terms of SQ and low distortion IMHO. Then again, I've never liked the sound of the IDMax, except for IB installs. They're just too thick sounding for my taste.
> 
> Zach


How does the mag sound compared to the IDMax Ib??


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I PM'd you back matdotcom. I'll post in here too that in terms of SQ, the IDMax can't touch the Mag IMHO. The Max is capable of more sheer output, but that's not to say the Mag is any slouch in that department either.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

matdotcom2000 said:


> How does the mag sound compared to the IDMax Ib??


The Mag won't work IB... Nick already said so

Kelvin


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

subwoofery said:


> The Mag won't work IB... Nick already said so
> 
> Kelvin


+1

The Mag v4 is a sealed only driver.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Guys, he was asking about the IDMax IB vs the Mag in a sealed box. I had commented earlier on how I thought the IDMax only sounds good IB. I made sure to point out in my PM to him that the Mag needs to be in a sealed box.


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

What makes it not suitable for IB?

I understand there is a limitation from cone area and excursion and that the frequency response may not be ideal without EQing, but what makes it useless IB?

I don't get the not suitable for ported thing either... Specs and box size/tunes are similar to a couple other subs I've run. What makes it not work well?

I understand it's more ideal sealed in-car because of cabin gain, but beyond that, I don't see the case saying it's sealed only.


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## ss600r (Mar 8, 2009)

Anyone in lower central NC(Charlotte)/upper SC(Rock Hill) have one set up I can listen to? Never really hearing a good SQ sub has me a little nervous on pulling the trigger.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I have a Mag V4 in a 1 cu ft box in my car. I live in Greensboro - I would be happy to have you take a listen. Send me a PM, and we will work out the details of meeting up if you want.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

ss600r said:


> Anyone in lower central NC(Charlotte)/upper SC(Rock Hill) have one set up I can listen to? Never really hearing a good SQ sub has me a little nervous on pulling the trigger.


You do know that you live in the same area as Nick right? Just shoot him a PM and set up a time to have a listen to his car. That would seem to be the most logical thing to do. Then if you like what you hear you can buy one straight from the source. And if you don't then you still got to meet another local forum member. Just my .02.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

mvw2 said:


> What makes it not suitable for IB?
> 
> I understand there is a limitation from cone area and excursion and that the frequency response may not be ideal without EQing, but what makes it useless IB?
> 
> ...


Wasn't this already covered in this thread? I could have sworn it was.

Plain and simple; the suspension is too compliant. Look at Cms and Vas, I'll be they're higher on the Mag v4 compared to the other subs you're looking at (higher Cms and Vas indicate a more compliant suspension). Also, the other subs you're looking at are either rated for much lower power handling than the Mag v4 is, or the Cms and Vas are considerably different.

You _can_ port it, but power handling goes down considerably (down to ~500 watts). And you _can_ run it IB, but power handling goes out the window with a compliant suspension (like, to the tune of 100 watts). 

The Mag v4 was designed ONLY for use in a sealed enclosure. All other enclosure types were not considered, so we didn't cut corners on the sealed performance of the driver just to make it suitable for other types of enclosures as well.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

ss600r said:


> Anyone in lower central NC(Charlotte)/upper SC(Rock Hill) have one set up I can listen to? Never really hearing a good SQ sub has me a little nervous on pulling the trigger.


I live right above Charlotte. You can listen to my twins (dual Mag's) if you want. You should have come up to the meet we had a month ago at Tremorz in Statesville. Give me a PM on here if you want. But my phone number and email address are both on SI's web page.  When I'm not in the office the calls get routed to my cell phone.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Electrodynamic said:


> You _can_ port it, but power handling goes down considerably (down to ~500 watts). And you _can_ run it IB, but power handling goes out the window with a compliant suspension (like, to the tune of 100 watts).


Now you're going back on what you said? You told me it was a cardinal sin to port the mag which was why I wasn't even interested in trying it. I asked about trying it in a properly ported box with less power and you simply laughed at me.

Freakin make up your mind.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

I said _can_ in italics because technically you can do whatever you want. Hell, you can run it without an enclosure period if you really wanted to.  You can also set it on fire if you really want to. I wouldn't advise it, but technically you can do whatever you want to. mvw2 was looking at just the numbers, and by the numbers you can put any driver in any enclosure you want to. In the case of the Mag, anything besides a sealed enclosure will end up in poor performance. I never advised him to use it in a different enclosure other than sealed. 

Take a chill pill. I don't think I ever said "cardinal sin" either. And I know I didn't laugh at you. Zach was also telling you not to port it. Porting the Mag always ends up in poor performance. I simply mentioned the power handling in my previous post. I said nothing about how it would sound - I just spoke about its power handling. I've always said that porting or running a Mag IB is a bad idea and shouldn't be done so I've always had my mind made up.  There's a reason why I only recommend sealed boxes.


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## gsr22 (Jul 30, 2007)

I dont see what all the animosity is all about. Nick seems like he's giving everyone his recommendations for enclosures based on what it was designed for and what he and others concluded was best. Whether you choose to use his recommended enclosure size/type is up to the consumer. If you want to port it do it and please let us know how it turns out.


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