# The Best way to add Audiocontrol The Epicenter into DSP system chain



## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

*The Best way to add Audiocontrol The Epicenter into mini DSP system chain*

The thing is:
* I want to use a DSP (like minidsp C-DSP) unit to process my system.
* I want to keep my stock HU.
* I want BT streaming from my phone (no bt phone call needed, just music).
* I plan to use one of these cheap 12v universal BT to RCA dongle. (very good reviews).
* Audiocontrol The Epicenter is "a must have" for me... 

My current plan is this: 

1.- Install the epicenter before dsp, (using the newest "Plus" version, that has a RCA´s aux In/out), and then connect it to the dsp through its RCA aux input. (no need to conect any "main" source to the epicenter, neither speaker level nor low input, as I need to apply the epicenter efect just to streaming music). The dsp can be feeded "mainly" from my HU through speaker level inputs to get radio/cd sources and of course, aux source).

2.- Connecting the BT dongle to the epicenter´s RCA aux in.

3.- Using the epicenter remote to control the bass volume, and the minidsp remote to control master volume and presets.

My question is...

¿Can I Select the input source from the minidsp remote? 

if it is not posible...

¿have c-dsp minidsp input source self-selection when music starts playing from aux source?

Thank´s in advance!

(A pair of observations: 
1.- The easiest way to get BT music streaming is through my stock HU, but I´m pretty sure it degrades the "in self degraded" mp3 files I play... so I think is a better idea to stream directly from the epicenter, skipping this head unit process.. (or I missing something here???)

2.- I choose The "Plus" version of the epicenter because its "GTO" feature, that enables to turn on the unit when detects signal from speaker level inputs, and standard version lacks of this cool "saving power" feature.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

I would still put the epicenter after the dsp, so that any changes it makes will only effect the subwoofer. if you put it before, you run the risk of adding phasing and other weird things to the signal chain that you then have to compensate for in the dsp, so save some trouble and just don't use it on the stock headunit if you don't need it.

also, I think either way Bluetooth will be..ok..at best, so I'd probably just keep the simplicity of using the phone through the factory headunit.


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

Hi Lycan Cat, thanks for your answer!

I forgot mention that other reason to put the Epicenter before dsp,is because it also serves as a hi quality line driver, so at least "theoretically", it should deliver a strongest / clearest signal to the dsp input than my stock HU could do...
I was wondering that if I do this way, then the dsp could "solve" all this potential analog issues, and then get a clean/flat response output... with the benefit of the epicenter effect...

But after your comments, may should be a good idea try and hear both installations (after or before dsp) and hear and compare the result...


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

I own an Epicenter, but I generally find that the results are better if you do it manually. Basically load the file into Audacity and synthesize the subharmonics manually, on a file-by-file basis.

When you use a "one size fits all" process, like the Epicenter does, you end up making a lot of the tracks sound boomy.

And if you process the files manually, and use an iPod, iPhone or Android for a source, you don't need the Epicenter.


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

Edit every single track that I would like to enhance bass, is not an option, even posible... I read at AC website that in new "Plus" version you can do manual effect up or downgrade through the remote, so when you find a song sound too boomy, just sweep down the effect with a knob twist "on the fly"... I would like to hear others first hand experiencies here... Greetings.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

Something like a preset would be nice. A setting that works for rock and roll will make rap and edm sound way bloated. Because the fundamental of the basslines is much lower in frequency.


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## BlkRamRt (Nov 27, 2013)

On my first audio build I had an epicenter after my dsp. That's what I would do.


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

This idea of having presets for differents songs makes me sense... But is yet too general because not every oldie or rock song needs bass enhancement in my tastes... If I will go with an Epicenter in my chain, I will put in it after the dsp, as BlkRam said.


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## BlkRamRt (Nov 27, 2013)

It was harder for me to put it before the dsp because I kept my factory radio so I had to use my factory speaker wires as my signal into the 360.3. Keep us informed on how it works out for you.


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## BlueGhost (Jul 28, 2014)

Could you place the epicenter between the DSP and sub amp, then set the sub channels to full range on the DSP. This would still allow for EQ, TA, and phase adjustment to be done by the DSP and let the sub amp handle crossover points. You may have to make some TA adjustments if the epicenter adds any delay to the signal.


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

BlkRamRt said:


> It was harder for me to put it before the dsp because I kept my factory radio so I had to use my factory speaker wires as my signal into the 360.3.


The Epicenter "Plus" have speaker level inputs, and with Its RCA outs I could feed the DPS. (besides the improved remote functions and aux input).


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

BlueGhost said:


> Could you place the epicenter between the DSP and sub amp, then set the sub channels to full range on the DSP. This would still allow for EQ, TA, and phase adjustment to be done by the DSP and let the sub amp handle crossover points. You may have to make some TA adjustments if the epicenter adds any delay to the signal.


It was my first idea... My only concerns are that the Epicenter afects freqs up to 200hz, so when it is correctly installed, its effect sound from sub frequencies up to lower mid bass frequencies... delivering that cool deep bass I want to reach. 

If I go this way, the amp xover will cut the effect arround 80-90 hz... so, I dont know...


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## will. (Jul 7, 2015)

I have an epicenter and I find it sounds unnatural on any kind of music with low defined basslines. With anythng with just a kick drum and deep bass or older music with very little bass, it can add a desirable effect although still sounds unnatural.

On the epicenter (non-plus), you can control the width and frequency..I typically have the width very small and frequency very low.

How does the plus handle this? Do you have any control on the effect?


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

will. said:


> On the epicenter (non-plus), you can control the width and frequency..I typically have the width very small and frequency very low.
> 
> How does the plus handle this? Do you have any control on the effect?


In their website The Epicenter Plus - AudioControl , they states that with new ACR2 remote, you can handle both, level and effect... Even, in the "Plus" unit there is not any adjust knobs any more...


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## will. (Jul 7, 2015)

ANDRESVELASCO said:


> In their website The Epicenter Plus - AudioControl , they states that with new ACR2 remote, you can handle both, level and effect... Even, in the "Plus" unit there is not any adjust knobs any more...


Actually it only states this:
5. Restoration Level Control/Source Selector:
This knob allows you to in
-
crease or decrease the bass restoration of The Epicenter Plus. Additionally, tap
-
ping the knob will toggle between sources. You can mount the knob anywhere
you want, although somewhere in the front of the vehicle is preferable.





No mention of how to adjust the frequency or width or effect - the two knobs on the non plus version


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

Since there is not any unit knobs on "Plus", It seems it does some width/freq/level control through the new remote. It must be some wierd algorithm... I tried to find some review I read where the autor said that new bass restoration control system works really well, but as I haven't use it yet, I really can't say how it works IMO. I will try to reach that info and then post it here. I want to hear first hand experiences with this...


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## will. (Jul 7, 2015)

I wouldn't really on any advanced algorithms to read your mind on how you want your epicenter to affect your music....


Knowing audiocontrol, they probably sacrificed these knobs to add the aux input and just picked a generic/fixed frequency and center to satisfy most users...Also, theyre documentation is the worst.

I still prefer to be able to pick a low frequency with a very narrow width - Otherwise, I wouldn't use an epicenter.

Find this out before you buy the plus.


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

will. said:


> I wouldn't really on any advanced algorithms to read your mind on how you want your epicenter to affect your music....
> 
> 
> Knowing audiocontrol, they probably sacrificed these knobs to add the aux input and just picked a generic/fixed frequency and center to satisfy most users...Also, theyre documentation is the worst.
> ...



I was hopping somebody could confirm this "magic" auto bass adjusting in the new "Plus" version... But the most probably is that this works as you said... 

May be Audiocontrol engineers just simplify and fixed settings at softest levels to avoid excessive "boomy" effect that widest settings can produce... but, since AC documentation doesn't helps making this any clear, all this are just speculations... Bad for Audiocontrol...


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## ANDRESVELASCO (Dec 7, 2015)

To summerize this thread... 

Perhaps, up today, the best way to add an Epicenter to the system using DSP processor, is installing just before the sub amplifier, feeding the Epicenter with a DSP's processed full range signal, choosing one of these three ways: 

1) Using "stand alone" epicenter, letting subwoofer amplifier's embedded crossover handle hi-pass. 
2) Using "stand alone" epicenter, and adding an active 2-way crossover efter the epicenter and before sub amp to handle hi-pass. 
3) Using a "Audiocontrol The Epicenter 600 or 1200 Amplifier" (with embedded epicenter) http://www.audiocontrol.com/car-audio/power-amplifiers/ to do all the work. 

If you go by "stand alone" Epicenter, it seems that "classic" epicenter is more user configurable, so May be a good idea use this instead the "Plus" version and fix settings at softest posible just to add a Sweet bass notes when it is desirable, avoiding excesives distortions when music have good bass information... 

It will depend on user tastes anyway


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