# what does it take to make 168 Db's



## icu812

I had an interesting conversation with my neighbor yesterday after work .
it all started out with him asking me how loud I thought my system was I told him at least 130- 135 with my current config ( 2 HCCA 250's & a set of OS HCCA 10's sealed .75 f3 each in my work truck then he begins telling me that the system in his 1996 mustang GT (which consist of 2 RF power 1500bd'S running a set of Kicker L7 12's) and that he is making 168 DB's with of course stock electrical and a pre fabbed store bought sealed box and no sound deadening. 4 ga wire 1.5 farad cap
I through up the BS flag told him he would be "lucky" to be in the low to mid 40's and he got pissy about it. so I told him for the simple sakes of keeping our friendship intact I would ask a couple of forum users.
so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
how much power does it take to produce those #'s (168 ) and what does or would it consist of ?
and is my guess fairly accurate?


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## T3mpest

icu812 said:


> I had an interesting conversation with my neighbor yesterday after work .
> it all started out with him asking me how loud I thought my system was I told him at least 130- 135 with my current config ( 2 HCCA 250's & a set of OS HCCA 10's sealed .75 f3 each in my work truck then he begins telling me that the system in his 1996 mustang GT (which consist of 2 RF power 1500bd'S running a set of Kicker L7 12's) and that he is making 168 DB's with of course stock electrical and a pre fabbed store bought sealed box and no sound deadening. 4 ga wire 1.5 farad cap
> I through up the BS flag told him he would be "lucky" to be in the low to mid 40's and he got pissy about it. so I told him for the simple sakes of keeping our friendship intact I would ask a couple of forum users.
> so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> how much power does it take to produce those #'s (168 ) and what does or would it consist of ?
> and is my guess fairly accurate?



Depends on alot of things, but not many cars in the world are doing a 168 and very few of them are driveable. None of them have stock electrical, most are using 20k watts or more. Very few use sealed enclosures if any, and the few that do are probably using a clamshell wall type of thing with like 24 15's or something stupid. As for what his car could hit, sealed I doubt 2 12's was even reaching mid 140's. Probably low 140's or mid to high 130's. Not sure about how easy it is to get a mustang loud.


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## Abob89

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/spl-science/73509-8-woofer-tuned-37-hz-video.html

Guy did 143 @ 37hz with (1) 8". So I suppose anything is possible... however............



sundownz said:


> The system cracked the glass right before the video -- the guys didn't think about the glass cracking so they didn't have the camera rolling for the original crack (would have been cool). But they did think it would be fun to at least video finishing it off. *The burst that cracked the windshield was 158.6 dB @ 50 Hz... may have been more in reality but the pressure release from the glass cracking* may have prevented the TL from registering.


The Sundown boys are busting glass at 158.6dB

Stock electrical and prefabs? You be the judge


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## dohckiller808

you know the answer... theres tons of people who dont really know wtf those numbers really mean and prey on the the people who dont know as well. have him sit in a true 150 on music and watch him squirm then ask him what he thinks that car hits.


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## Luke352

A 168db looks something like this. 

_Ok well lets start with the GT Autosounds Extreme Civic which held the extreme record here in australia for many years, its score is still one of the loudest in the world for a Non bandpass extreme car 

With an 18volt starting votlage dropping to 9 volts the car once did a 168 in testing on some old golf cart batteries, a very respectable score for the equipment used _


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## Oliver

My boom box does 188 dB's in a closet if I cornerload it


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## ChiTownSQ

I have a buddy that has that similar set up that is enjoying 142db as long as i read that there is 1 1500 watt amps and 2 l7 kicker in a ported enclosure. He is not an spl guy, just like the some boom in his trunk.

Most people don't understand how hard it is to gain just 3db in a car, double power, double drivers or both and you only gain a little bit on the Exponential scale of DB's


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## reker13

There was a truck at CES Las Vegas in 2008 that had only two 15" that hit 165+dbs official. But it ran a ton of power and I think the whole vehicle was tuned to like 70hz somehow. Every 5 min the truck would let out a 3 second pulse of sound and the entire car audio section of the building would pulse.

After walking towards the sound for several minutes I walked up and talked to the dude standing beside it asking if it was really a 165+db offical. He said why don't you stand in the open door way on the next burst. So I did, the pulse was so intense that my testicles swapped places. To this day my right boy is on the left and my left boy is on the right. Insane amount of sound coming from 2 speakers man insane. Ask my boys. :laugh:

But yea, lots of power and a minimal install tuned just right CAN get freggin nutty loud. But your friend next door was probably using an app on his iphone or something to get his SPL reading or is just a complete douche.


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## jasondplacetobe

i actually sat in the alma gates bronco after it came back from winning iasca. 50,000 watts and 50 ppi pro 10" subs. i think it won with a score of 169.7. it was a long time ago so the #'s are a little fuzzy. hope that helps.


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## 60ndown

easy to find out if he's anywhere near 126 db

Digital-Display Sound-Level Meter : Sound Meters | RadioShack.com


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## OGJordan

It he's hitting 168db with his setup I will personally give him a blow job and $100,000.


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## PABowhunter4life

Everyone is doing 170 dbs............until they go to a comp & actually get measured lol. I use to love when kids would pull in with (4) cheap 12's and a Kraco amp in their car telling everyone how loud their system was. Then when they registered a 100db & the next lowest score was a 138 they'd cry their eyes out saying the mic was off...yada yada yada. The best I ever did was 153.1 with 3500 watts going to a DD9515 in a 6 cubic foot ported box in the back of my Blazer.


Your buddy is NOWHERE near 168dbs..........PERIOD.


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## icu812

I think I know now why he thinks that,,,,,,,, 2 Orion HCCA's @ 50 WPC = 200 watts (actually both are running at 1 Ohm bridged = somewhere around 1600w total depending on voltage )
so he figures he has 5 times the power LOL
no matter what I tell him he just don't get the big picture and around here there is no SPL contest local
so I gave in and told him it sounds more like 175db's to me then I LMAO


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## nick561

i have two Mmats juggernaut 15" subs in a 10 cube ported enclosure with 5800 watts rms on it and it will play a 152.3 on music before i run out out of voltage.


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## tential

icu812 said:


> I think I know now why he thinks that,,,,,,,, 2 Orion HCCA's @ 50 WPC = 200 watts (actually both are running at 1 Ohm bridged = somewhere around 1600w total depending on voltage )
> so he figures he has 5 times the power LOL
> no matter what I tell him he just don't get the big picture and around here there is no SPL contest local
> so I gave in and told him it sounds more like 175db's to me then I LMAO


People that stupid aren't worth being friends with. =/


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## 08Raider

well I would say explain to your friend that the DB gain from power is exponential but I am sure that will just go over his head. When you are already talking about a 130 db starting point, 5 times more power in a perfect environment is only a minimal gain (by the numbers like on a meter) because the rule of thumb is you have to double your power each time to gain 1 db.
I would have him read this article.....(that is assuming he is capable of reading??)..dB: What is a decibel?


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## Hispls

Many lulz here.

Here's a good reference of what sound levels are:
http://www.makeitlouder.com/Decibel Level Chart.txt

164 and you're breaking normal windshields every time. A guy who does a lot of local shows does that and change with a pair of monstrous 18"s 4 Soundstream XXX-10,000's and a dozen or so 18V batteries. He breaks welds on the car and windshields. 

No f-king way you'll do much more than that without starting to armor plate your car and AFAIK reaching 170+ involves tuning all inner panels to act as passive radiators at tuning.

I think in the right box his Kicker L7 12's could do 150 with those amps, but the box would be tuned to 55hz or so and would have to be very well built and would sound like absolute **** trying to play music.










These are 15's tuned to 45hz, Running 14.8V. this box does 148.6 with DC 2000.1 amp and 149.7 with Sundown 3000D (amps run at .5ohm nominal), or 149.1 with a pair of Sundown 3Kd's strapped to 2 ohms nominal.


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## Notloudenuf

He has (2) HCCA 10's
The sensitivity of (1) is:
Sensitivity	84dB
He has (2) so 84dB x 2 = 168dB

Therefore he's hitting 168 dB 
If he adds 1 more he'll be at 252dB yo!


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## Hispls

Notloudenuf said:


> He has (2) HCCA 10's
> The sensitivity of (1) is:
> Sensitivity	84dB
> He has (2) so 84dB x 2 = 168dB
> 
> Therefore he's hitting 168 dB
> If he adds 1 more he'll be at 252dB yo!


Hard to argue with that math....

In similar news I'm working on acquiring an 8KW amp and I'll be happy to see 153....


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## Hillbilly SQ

I'm hitting a 179 with a pair of sealed re10's on 400 watts!

No really it sounds more like upper 120's on a GOOD day:laugh:


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## muriloalvares

Hi, 










this is one of our competition cars and just did 167.1 in the dash, 61Hz 

it took 30kW, 4x 18s, 60cf band pass box to do so.


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## Hispls

muriloalvares said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is one of our competition cars and just did 167.1 in the dash, 61Hz
> 
> it took 30kW, 4x 18s, 60cf band pass box to do so.


how many tons of batteries?


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## muriloalvares

a bunch of 8V 165Ah trojans, 22 units


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## Hispls

muriloalvares said:


> a bunch of 8V 165Ah trojans, 22 units


Is that factory glass or something custom? I can't immagine factory glass holding up to that kind of preasure for long.


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## muriloalvares

factory, the front part is original

the windshield should break after 170s


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## muriloalvares




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## TREETOP

Greeting Murilo, good to see you here! :beerchug:


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## chilisport

This thread makes me :laugh:


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## cubdenno

Correct me if I am wrong, but what actually breaks the wind shield is the varying degrees of flex and twisting in the frame. has nothing to do with pressure. Doing 100 mph is putting more pressure on the windshield than a set of subs could ever do. Want to keep your windshield from cracking? reinforce the frame.

I understand that the windshield is convex on the outside which increases its resistance to the pressures of air, rocks etc. but even so, the miniscule internal pressure created by the speakers on a compressible medium (air) is not enough to crack, blow out or break the tempered glass that makes up a windshield.


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## BumpinMyVolvo

OGJordan said:


> It he's hitting 168db with his setup I will personally give him a blow job and $100,000.


I won't do that...but I definitely agree with his logic:laugh:


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## eCrack

OGJordan said:


> It he's hitting 168db with his setup I will personally give him a blow job and $100,000.


HAHAHA I'm at work and can't stop laughing.


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## Viperoni

TREETOP said:


> Greeting Murilo, good to see you here! :beerchug:


x2!

150db at absolute best IMO.


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## Jaker89

Flex for sure breaks windows. We cracked my rear windshield on my grand prix while only hitting 147's cuz of the flex we had before we put the mat in.


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## stangman67

I love people with their ridiculous spl claims! MAkes me lol a lot


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## rezdawgaudio72

Hispls said:


> Hard to argue with that math....
> 
> In similar news I'm working on acquiring an 8KW amp and I'll be happy to see 153....


hheeehhhee holy crap man,thats some killer math,i like that,thats the funniest $hit i every read,hhheeehhheee, with that math I'm sure to hit my 170db goal,


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## carlton jones

ask your friend what year he did that build in cause back in the day db's were measured different than they are by todays measuring techniques


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## icu812

the date was somewhere around summer/ fall2001 from my phone converesation this morning 
if that helps


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## marchel

OGJordan said:


> It he's hitting 168db with his setup I will personally give him a blow job and $100,000.


Yucky Yuck yuck !!!


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## SHOToonz

i once hit 138.9 on a termlab with 1 fosgate power hx2 in a 2ish cubic foot ported box powered by a 501bd using music...even with hearing protection, that headache lasted a while. oh, and fwiw, another guy who was there sporting a pair of 12" L7s with about 1k apiece on em in a custom ported box hit 142 on tones...


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## topdawg

Does any local shop have a TL or anything else, so he can take it in and get a wake up call?


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## StockA4

With a JL Audio 12W7 backed with the JL 1000/1, I hit 143db...
on my phone! Hahahaha!!


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## Hispls

StockA4 said:


> With a JL Audio 12W7 backed with the JL 1000/1, I hit 143db...
> on my phone! Hahahaha!!


There's a guy around here that was doing around that legal on a termlab with 13W7 on the /1000. It was a very well built box though.

Way to ressurect an old thread though.

Since I think I mentioned it, the 8K amp blew up after about an hour of normal listening. F*ck maxxsonics...


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## fight4life28

That's a lot of power to amps in the truck and cars. Bass Monsters haha.


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## n8skow

To do a 168db?
If we're talking a 'street' vehicle (not extreme), 4 strong 18's in a walled astro, and around 50,000 watts... But it won't be too musical - peaking around 55hz.

In an extreme vehicle, I believe Dante has broke a 170 on a single woofer on around 30k (3-4 years ago), but your talking lots of concrete, steel, and lexan. Not a 'driveable' vehicle.


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## xMplar

muriloalvares said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is one of our competition cars and just did 167.1 in the dash, 61Hz
> 
> it took 30kW, 4x 18s, 60cf band pass box to do so.


you see i understand the reason for doing cars like this to puish the boundrys and all that but really its not even car audio anymore its now just a speaker with batterys and sum wheels to rol it with true car audio should be grndpounders like 150ish upwards but in a car you can still drive 

i know i know 1nything from 155 well 15 -162-3db is going to start breaking stuff aswell as yourself but if you cant drive the car pull up at the light next to sum guy cranking his fully sik system and then larf and hit the switvch on yours and watch his windows break its just not car audio

comps should be extreme or anything that isnt driveable up to a ormal cruzin speed then ground pouners or anything that has b piller backwards commited to stereo speakers box or batterys etc

the street which is all seats avalable no matter how many batts or speakers or watever obviiusly there would be classes to the op at 1000w pers sub in 15" i can think oif about a dozen brands i would buy over kicker L7 while they arent bad subs they just arent as good as sum others like Ascendant audio, FI, SSA, sundown audio, Digital Designs, DC Audio, Peirce Audio, Obsideon audio (awsum price for awsum gear) Cactus audio, Audiosystem, Memphis audio (C3 or MOJO)and also sureal innovations but they are a little bt more expensive for wat they offer against the others listed

and if your after LOUD but still with good sound then a well designed ported box will work well but will never sound as good as a Sealed box according to the all the experts in the audiophile books but then dont always belive wat you read

Ren
xMplar


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## xMplar

whoops i answerd 2 topics in that post i think never mind one form the one i read before that 

anyhoo to do 168 i reckon its not easy and you have to blow at least one system on the way to doing it but having said that i think most ppl a 138-140 out of your system shop bought and built pro or no is a fiaarly resonable expectation now nost of the system you spend reosonable money on are doing that i mean siok by nines will do like 129

so you could do it with 4 subwoofers the right type of box and maybe i beleive 10kw or even less like say 1 x 5kw or possible 2 x effecint 3kw amps 
most of it comes down to one thing design and how well and how effecient yours is also not having any weak links from any part of the chain

with approx 4 batts in a fully streetable car it would have to have sum sertios reinforcements and maybe some race glass or lexan or simalar for the windows as glass would just smash

as i have seen a car with 3 x 15s it was a mental build use 1 x 300.2 mosconi amp bridged to 1800 or whatever it was do a 168 db drag official in europe using 3 15" free air design audiosystem subs and 1 x audiosystem mosconi 300.1 amp at i think it may have been 16v but possibley 12-14v it doesnt say but its official


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## n8skow

uh, no...
10kw should get you to upper 50's ('maybe' break a 60 - and we're talking a walled vehicle, not a 'street' type setup, and it's gonna be tuned high and non musical).

You've seen a freeair setup do a 168 on 1800 watts in europe??, yah, lay off the ganja man...





xMplar said:


> so you could do it with 4 subwoofers the right type of box and maybe i beleive 10kw or even less like say 1 x 5kw or possible 2 x effecint 3kw amps
> 
> as i have seen a car with 3 x 15s it was a mental build use 1 x 300.2 mosconi amp bridged to 1800 or whatever it was do a 168 db drag official in europe using 3 15" free air design audiosystem subs and 1 x audiosystem mosconi 300.1 amp at i think it may have been 16v but possibley 12-14v it doesnt say but its official


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## xMplar

the subs were free air not the build here it is in the flesh a few piccys of it 

Ren
xMplar


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## xMplar

hell man i have done a sub up port back with 2 15s and about 250-3500 between them for a 150flat at 40hz on a termlab with the box tuned at around 35hz

you dont need to have big power to make big numbers it does help as does the build granted the above was a extremeish build but they did for a lauf and cause they blew the normal amp which was putting them into the 170s and whacked in a mosconi 300.2 am with the 3 15" audiosystem Free air subs for a world record db score compleatly official and the subdown car in russia with its interestiingly designed box did a 160. sumthing with 2 x ns1s or whatever they are and a single 18 in full on no wall and no clamps aon doors nor bullet proof glass or lexan or plexi etc it all comes down to the gear you use and the system you design its as simple as that

Ren
xMplar


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## n8skow

Would of been nice if you had mentioned you were referring to an extreme vehicle. =) Most of your post lead me to believe we were talking about a 'driveable' street vehicle...

Not really sure why your throwing your car in the mix (don't get me wrong, 150 with that power/cone is good number) but worlds apart from what goes into an extreme vehicle. Hell, I can do a 153 (door open at the dash) in my Celica with 2900 watts (clamped) and 2 10's... but no way in hell either of us are gonna do a 168 (let alone a 160) on that little of power/cone.

I agree, it's possible to do a 'decent' number on little power, but back to the original topic, we're talking about what it takes to do a 168, right? In an extreme vehicle, sure, 10kw should do pretty good number. But in a typical street vehicle, no.
55-58ish tops on 10kw. With a wall - 159-161.

The Sundown car your referring to, I'm familiar with, and a 160 is a reasonable number for that power (NS-1's are rated at what, 6kw each?). Again, world's apart the realm of a 168... and very few people in that neighborhood with a stock interior (non-extreme).





xMplar said:


> hell man i have done a sub up port back with 2 15s and about 250-3500 between them for a 150flat at 40hz on a termlab with the box tuned at around 35hz
> 
> you dont need to have big power to make big numbers it does help as does the build granted the above was a extremeish build but they did for a lauf and cause they blew the normal amp which was putting them into the 170s and whacked in a mosconi 300.2 am with the 3 15" audiosystem Free air subs for a world record db score compleatly official and the subdown car in russia with its interestiingly designed box did a 160. sumthing with 2 x ns1s or whatever they are and a single 18 in full on no wall and no clamps aon doors nor bullet proof glass or lexan or plexi etc it all comes down to the gear you use and the system you design its as simple as that
> 
> Ren
> xMplar


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## Hispls

Most of these EXTREME vehicles would do 150's on head unit power. Completely elimitating preasure loss from vibration and super efficient box design is where it's at at that level.

IMO these things are the equivelant of putting an aircraft engine in a semi truck (seen that done). or those cars with the hydraulic suspension that can bounce 15 feet up in the air. Just totally testing the limits. At the extreme of anything it becomes impractical for normal use.


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## 3rdshiftdiscretion

168 is deadly. 
30kw+ power massive amounts of cone area. Large intricate bandpasses. Just as much money in deadening and support. as well as a battery bank to hold any kind of power above 16V


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## Sarthos

Is nobody even taking into account the fact that a 1996 Mustang is what we call a "car"?
Getting that kinda numbers in a car is next to impossible. Vans, wagons, SUVs, or hatchbacks maybe. Car, yah...no. Take into account the other details and laugh when he fails to reach 130.

Guessing at a system's decibels without metering it is worthless. I've seen many people who, if you judged by ear, had louder systems than mine. I then made them listen to my setup and they didn't think it was as loud. After a few minutes though, they began to feel the air pressurize a bit and realized that the SPL in my vehicle was higher than theirs. It was just the fact that their systems surpassed 50% THD, it hurts your ears even at 65 dB :/


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## Javanish8811

icu812 said:


> I had an interesting conversation with my neighbor yesterday after work .
> it all started out with him asking me how loud I thought my system was I told him at least 130- 135 with my current config ( 2 HCCA 250's & a set of OS HCCA 10's sealed .75 f3 each in my work truck then he begins telling me that the system in his 1996 mustang GT (which consist of 2 RF power 1500bd'S running a set of Kicker L7 12's) and that he is making 168 DB's with of course stock electrical and a pre fabbed store bought sealed box and no sound deadening. 4 ga wire 1.5 farad cap
> I through up the BS flag told him he would be "lucky" to be in the low to mid 40's and he got pissy about it. so I told him for the simple sakes of keeping our friendship intact I would ask a couple of forum users.
> so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> how much power does it take to produce those #'s (168 ) and what does or would it consist of ?
> and is my guess fairly accurate?


 I have 3 memphis mojo 5series 15"subs and I hit 168 all day on volume 35 and my pioneer deck goes up to 62


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## mikey7182

Javanish8811 said:


> I have 3 memphis mojo 5series 15"subs and I hit 168 all day on volume 35 and my pioneer deck goes up to 62


35 out of 62 huh? Sounds like you know exactly what you're doing! Since SPL is apparently directly and solely affected by headunit volume, and not at all reliant on the gains of the anonymous amps you're running, voltage, cabin gain, enclosure design, or cone area/displacement, we could set up the equation this way:

35/168 dB = 62/x dB and solve for x. 

You should turn your Pioneer deck up to 62 and hit 297.6 dB. You've got mojo!


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## Hispls

Javanish8811 said:


> I have 3 memphis mojo 5series 15"subs and I hit 168 all day on volume 35 and my pioneer deck goes up to 62



Did this clown just sign up to this board to post this?


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## SkizeR

I swear, threads should be automatically locked after a year of no activity


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## artv4nd3l4y

168 db is like RustyWCA, literally a conversion van with 5 HO alternators massive battery bank that costs more than my car. That's pretty ridiculous SPL, and as said before by some others the car would not be a daily driver. You would risk bursting your ear drums at that level. Anything is possible, but that is a crazy number.


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