# Understanding network mode on the Pioneer DEH-80PRS with 4 speakers



## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

I am trying to understand how to use network mode with my current setup. I know there are lots of posted questions about this so I'll try to make it as simple as possible.

Setup:
Pioneer DEH-80PRS
Two front 6.5" Components (MB Quart QSD 216)
Two Rear 6.5" Coax (MB Quart Premium 216)
Single 4 Channel Amp (Eclipse 4100 75x4)
(No sub at the moment)

To run Network mode with this setup to optimize the sound quality would it be ideal to run a separate amp for the tweeters using the PRS high output RCA's and use a separate amp for the mid range using the PRS mid output RCA's. Then having the amps set to pass through - and would this not require the passive speaker crossovers?

I am thinking of several scenarios to use with network mode but I get a bit confused as I want to be able to utilize the options network mode has.

Once I understand all of this I would like to ad a sub but first things first. What would help a lot is if I could see some existing wiring diagrams showing different setups.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

To take advantage of network mode you should run a 4 channel amp, one channel to each tweeter, and each mid. That's what the head unit is designed for. It's not really designed to run a proper 2-way front stage (active) and rear fill. If you really want to optimize things, ditch the rear speakers, and fun the fronts active, without the passive crossovers.


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

You'll need to run in standard mode with your speakers.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

gijoe said:


> To take advantage of network mode you should run a 4 channel amp, one channel to each tweeter, and each mid. That's what the head unit is designed for. It's not really designed to run a proper 2-way front stage (active) and rear fill. If you really want to optimize things, ditch the rear speakers, and fun the fronts active, without the passive crossovers.


So the wiring for this would be:
PRS High RCA's to Front 4 channel amp 1-2 for tweeters 
PRS Mid RCA's to Front 4 channel amp 3-4 to for mid.

Right?
It seems with this setup the PRS isn't designed to run rear speakers because obviously your using up all the outputs for the front stage right? And if you did want to run rear speakers with the settings this way - how would the 80 PRS fade - I assume it wouldn't.

Or is it possible some way to run the rear speakers in the same fashion? Because it seems in standard mode you would not have control over the crossovers for the highs and mids separately as you would in network mode.


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## Socalstangman (Sep 20, 2011)

movingzachb said:


> So the wiring for this would be:
> PRS High RCA's to Front 4 channel amp 1-2 for tweeters
> PRS Mid RCA's to Front 4 channel amp 3-4 to for mid.
> 
> ...



This setup would be correct. You CAN NOT run rears in network mode. Who needs them anyway???


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

movingzachb said:


> So the wiring for this would be:
> PRS High RCA's to Front 4 channel amp 1-2 for tweeters
> PRS Mid RCA's to Front 4 channel amp 3-4 to for mid.
> 
> ...


Stereo does not contain rear information, stereo is front only. We've come to expect rear speakers in our cars, but they ruin the effect that stereo was designed to create. Unless you can run highly processes rear speakers, they will hurt the stereo image. 

You can probably run rears off of the head unit, but whichever signal you pull (mids would be best) will have the same tuning that you applied to the front. If you want to take advantage of the tuning features that the 80prs has, and run an active 2-way front stage, you should either scrap the rear speakers, or run them off of the head unit (mid) and keep them very low. I'm not sure how well the 80prs handles running both high and low level for the same channel, but I'm certain plenty of people on here have done it.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

gijoe said:


> Stereo does not contain rear information, stereo is front only. We've come to expect rear speakers in our cars, but they ruin the effect that stereo was designed to create. Unless you can run highly processes rear speakers, they will hurt the stereo image.
> 
> You can probably run rears off of the head unit, but whichever signal you pull (mids would be best) will have the same tuning that you applied to the front. If you want to take advantage of the tuning features that the 80prs has, and run an active 2-way front stage, you should either scrap the rear speakers, or run them off of the head unit (mid) and keep them very low. I'm not sure how well the 80prs handles running both high and low level for the same channel, but I'm certain plenty of people on here have done it.


Understand all of what you are sayhing. Its just that initially I thought that this HU would do exactly what I was mentioning above (run active with all the crossover feature changes on front AND rear) but obviously it would need an additional four RCA ports to do this. And, it made me wonder if you could change the low output RCA set on the PRS to throw out a full range so you could simply utilize your own equipment (another amp/xover) etc. 

I'm sure there is probably a way to do all of this but just not all from within the features of the HU itself it seems.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

movingzachb said:


> Understand all of what you are sayhing. Its just that initially I thought that this HU would do exactly what I was mentioning above (run active with all the crossover feature changes on front AND rear) but obviously it would need an additional four RCA ports to do this. And, it made me wonder if you could change the low output RCA set on the PRS to throw out a full range so you could simply utilize your own equipment (another amp/xover) etc.
> 
> I'm sure there is probably a way to do all of this but just not all from within the features of the HU itself it seems.


If you need all of that, you need a proper DSP. THe PIoneer 80PRS gives you just enough to run an excellent 3-way (2-way front, plus sub) and nothing more. It is built with sound quality, staging, and imaging in mind, all of which suffer with rear speakers. If you want to run rear speakers, and want to do it properly, buy an MS-8, or the Alpine h800 (I believe) they are the only 2 DSPs that I know of that can do proper rear speaker stereo processing.

If you keep in in standard mode, and have the ability to handle the crossovers through the amp, you can do what you want, but you won't have the ability to TA the drivers independently.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

gijoe said:


> If you need all of that, you need a proper DSP. THe PIoneer 80PRS gives you just enough to run an excellent 3-way (2-way front, plus sub) and nothing more. It is built with sound quality, staging, and imaging in mind, all of which suffer with rear speakers. If you want to run rear speakers, and want to do it properly, buy an MS-8, or the Alpine h800 (I believe) they are the only 2 DSPs that I know of that can do proper rear speaker stereo processing.


So maybe its best I replace the rear speakers with subs. Maybe 8" subs or something.


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## CrossFired (Jan 24, 2008)

movingzachb said:


> Understand all of what you are sayhing. Its just that initially I thought that this HU would do exactly what I was mentioning above (run active with all the crossover feature changes on front AND rear) but obviously it would need an additional four RCA ports to do this. And, it made me wonder if you could change the low output RCA set on the PRS to throw out a full range so you could simply utilize your own equipment (another amp/xover) etc.
> 
> I'm sure there is probably a way to do all of this but just not all from within the features of the HU itself it seems.


Sub out will only go up to 250hz in Network mode.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

CrossFired said:


> Sub out will only go up to 250hz in Network mode.


So the ideal 3-way setup in network mode is more suited to a 3-way speaker system (not a sub) or am I wrong?


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

movingzachb said:


> So the ideal 3-way setup in network mode is more suited to a 3-way speaker system (not a sub) or am I wrong?


No, it's setup to run a sub from 20hz up to 250hz (most people only go to around 100hx), the mids take over around 100hz and go to about 2,5Khz, then the tweeters take over. The 80prs is designed around a standard, conventional, automotive 3-way setup.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

movingzachb said:


> So maybe its best I replace the rear speakers with subs. Maybe 8" subs or something.


This. Do this.


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## DeLander (Feb 23, 2006)

You can use the 80PRS to run what you're asking about.
You'll need RCA cable y-splitters and amps with bandpass capabilities. I'm running 3-way front stage and subwoofer with a 880PRS.


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## DeLander (Feb 23, 2006)

Or an external DSP as previously mentioned


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

DeLander said:


> You can use the 80PRS to run what you're asking about.
> You'll need RCA cable y-splitters and amps with bandpass capabilities. I'm running 3-way front stage and subwoofer with a 880PRS.


And if you're making use of time alignment, all of that goes to crap. You're can't time align multiple locations on a single channel. And you better hope that the passband at the head unit is broader than whatever passband you plan to use on your amp. I would recommend against this. 

Also, I inadvertently ran my stock rear speakers off of the speaker level outputs while also using the RCA outputs because I forgot to turn off the internal amp. Amazing how much easier it was to get the tune (both staging and tone) once the internal amp was turned off and the rear speakers were no longer in the mix.


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## DeLander (Feb 23, 2006)

rton20s said:


> And if you're making use of time alignment, all of that goes to crap. You're can't time align multiple locations on a single channel. And you better hope that the passband at the head unit is broader than whatever passband you plan to use on your amp. I would recommend against this.
> 
> Also, I inadvertently ran my stock rear speakers off of the speaker level outputs while also using the RCA outputs because I forgot to turn off the internal amp. Amazing how much easier it was to get the tune (both staging and tone) once the internal amp was turned off and the rear speakers were no longer in the mix.


All true. But considering OP is wanting to use full range speakers, front and rear, I didn't think he/she would be worried too much about T/A.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

DeLander said:


> All true. But considering OP is wanting to use full range speakers, front and rear, I didn't think he/she would be worried too much about T/A.


I would be. Even with passive factory crossovers and speakers in my wife's GLI, time alignment made a huge difference in staging.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

DeLander said:


> All true. But considering OP is wanting to use full range speakers, front and rear, I didn't think he/she would be worried too much about T/A.


Yes. I want to use the time alignment and crossover over features to tune it to specific speakers I use but don't want to wash that out. I have never had subs before though and if I throw two subs in I need them to be musical sub that are tight and responsive. I also don't want boomy bass. Any recommendations. I know I can fit 8" subs in place of the rear speakers.

Also on my QSD's would it be better to not use the gigantic heavy passive crossovers on those and instead use the build in HU crossover? Just a thought.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

movingzachb said:


> Yes. I want to use the time alignment and crossover over features to tune it to specific speakers I use but don't want to wash that out. I have never had subs before though and if I throw two subs in I need them to be musical sub that are tight and responsive. I also don't want boomy bass. Any recommendations. I know I can fit 8" subs in place of the rear speakers.
> 
> Also on my QSD's would it be better to not use the gigantic heavy passive crossovers on those and instead use the build in HU crossover? Just a thought.


Your best bet is to use the active crossovers on the DEH-80PRS to send a high passed signal to the QSD 216 tweeters and bandpassed signal to the QSD 216 mids by way of your Eclipse 4100 amp without the use of the passive crossovers. Then decide how much space you have to dedicate to your subwoofer(s) and additional amplifier and plan out that upgrade accordingly. 

What kind of car is this going in? What are the rear speaker locations where you are considering adding the 8" subwoofers?


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## DeLander (Feb 23, 2006)

What he said^^^
You will need another amp for the substage


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

rton20s said:


> Your best bet is to use the active crossovers on the DEH-80PRS to send a high passed signal to the QSD 216 tweeters and bandpassed signal to the QSD 216 mids by way of your Eclipse 4100 amp without the use of the passive crossovers. Then decide how much space you have to dedicate to your subwoofer(s) and additional amplifier and plan out that upgrade accordingly.
> 
> What kind of car is this going in? What are the rear speaker locations where you are considering adding the 8" subwoofers?


1999 Mazda Miata. I've read a lot of posts from other Miata owners that have done the same thing that I did. Cut holes in the rear deck. I have been hesitant to throw subs in those holes because it seemed over kill - but a lot of people just buy two 8" subs and install them in that location and then fold the carpet over them. The Ecilpse 4100 is already installed in the trunk against the back wall. There is room however for a smaller amp behind it near the right rear wheel well. If I can find one narrow enough that would be the ideal place for it. It would be hidden completely - meaning you could not see it if you simply opened the trunk. 
I would be very happy to get rid of those huge QSD crossovers. This may all work out pretty well actually.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

movingzachb said:


> 1999 Mazda Miata. I've read a lot of posts from other Miata owners that have done the same thing that I did. Cut holes in the rear deck. I have been hesitant to throw subs in those holes because it seemed over kill - but a lot of people just buy two 8" subs and install them in that location and then fold the carpet over them. The Ecilpse 4100 is already installed in the trunk against the back wall. There is room however for a smaller amp behind it near the right rear wheel well. If I can find one narrow enough that would be the ideal place for it. It would be hidden completely - meaning you could not see it if you simply opened the trunk.
> I would be very happy to get rid of those huge QSD crossovers. This may all work out pretty well actually.


Miatas are a bit of a different animal. If I am not mistaken, I think you can fit 8s in the doors in some generations. That could be a good option for someone not wanting to do subwoofers. But since you already have your QSDs, I would probably look into options for sub integrations. 

There aren't a lot of Miata build logs on here, but I would probably start by reading through all of these...

Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum - Search Results


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

My previous suggestion about ditching rears speakers is reinforced with the fact that the car is a Miata. Rear speakers in a car that small will add nothing good to the sound and will simply complicate the install.

Run the front components active off of the 80prs and a 4-channel amp. Add a mono amp and a small sub or two, tune, and be done.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

Helix Precision P8W 8" 4-ohm subwoofer at Crutchfield.com I think two of these would be nice.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Those Helix are probably fine, but for the same or less money, I would probably be looking at the Alpine SWR-8D2 or 8D4. Whichever VC configuration would work better for the amp you choose. Another worth considering is the new Dayton UM8-22, which is even cheaper with higher Xmax and pretty low inductance. Both will have WAY more output than the Helix, and can work in similar small enclosures.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

rton20s said:


> Those Helix are probably fine, but for the same or less money, I would probably be looking at the Alpine SWR-8D2 or 8D4. Whichever VC configuration would work better for the amp you choose. Another worth considering is the new Dayton UM8-22, which is even cheaper with higher Xmax and pretty low inductance. Both will have WAY more output than the Helix, and can work in similar small enclosures.


May I ask since I've never used a subwoofer.

These subs would be installed in the same fashion as the ones in this photo (found these photos on google) 

Plate deck cover:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/clubmed06/Miata/AudioinstallMiata020.jpg

What is under the plate:
http://moesrealm.com/img/rollbar/exposed.jpg

Would this provide the an decent enough enclosure for the subs to work properly?


There is also this blog with photos to reference from someone who did the same thing.

http://blogarchive.brembs.net/content32.html


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

movingzachb said:


> May I ask since I've never used a subwoofer.
> 
> These subs would be installed in the same fashion as the ones in this photo (found these photos on google)
> 
> ...


At the very least, I would try to beef up and increase the rigidity of the top plate and completely seal it off at the perimeter. Liberally applying CLD to the body below would also be a good idea. Then stuff the void about 50% full with Blackhole Stuff or denim insulation. 

If you are up to the task of building a couple of sealed enclosures, they will probably offer better performance and less resonance. 

Also, I modeled the subs to compare performance and for the money, I would go for the Alpine SWR-8. You can get them in two different voice coil configurations to match whatever amp you choose and they will give you more than enough output with less than 500W. And it doesn't hurt that you can pick them up for under $90 ea.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

movingzachb said:


> May I ask since I've never used a subwoofer.
> 
> These subs would be installed in the same fashion as the ones in this photo (found these photos on google)
> 
> ...



It looks like you want to install those IB on the rear deck. The key is a strong baffle, so you'll probably have to reinforce the deck a bit, and you need to keep the front and rear waves isolated, so you might also need to build a baffle from the trunk to the cab.


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## Rusty (Aug 29, 2012)

when used in standard mode, could the speaker level outs be used, alongside the preouts? 

when I had an 80prs, I used standard mode so I could utilize the lower crossover points on the amp that I was using.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

Rusty said:


> when used in standard mode, could the speaker level outs be used, alongside the preouts?
> 
> when I had an 80prs, I used standard mode so I could utilize the lower crossover points on the amp that I was using.


If you are referring to the internal amp - yes you can use both.


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## movingzachb (Dec 13, 2013)

This thread is one I started a while ago but I recently found this post from a guy who has 2x 4 channel amps and he is running network mode. It is well explained so I thought I'd add it to this thread just for reference for anyone that does want to run 2 sets of components in network mode.



The copy/pasted post is below:


********************
Hi all, I'm really pressed for time so will make the write-up to the point. If anybody wants any more details then please don't hesitate to contact me.

Pioneer has launched a great car deck for sound quality and its quite affordable too considering the competition. So I can see lot of people ICE'ing it up with this deck and running active networks. I'm putting the details here because there are a lot of people who want to have a great sounding music system in a car but mostly don't get it for whatever reasons.. I will not venture in that direction. However, in case you want to buy this HU then allow me to highlight how to achieve a flat response from this wonderful HU for all SQL loving people. Please bear in mind the acoustics are related to my Fiat Punto 90hp.

My current setup :
HU - Pioneer DEH-80PRS (running a 3-way active network)
Amp - 2 x hertz HE4.1
Front - Focal 165VB
Rear - Focal 165CA1
Sub - Pioneer TS-WX303
Stalk adapter - connects2
Antenna convertor pin - local make

I've retained the steering button remote with the connects2 kit. It's plug-n-play except that two buttons on the steering don't work-1.call button(tel logo) & 2.voice action button(win logo). The AM/FM radio works flawlessly.

Had to put in a fascia plate which can be found really easy. It's not 100% matched to the ergonomics or the dash colors but guess what, the jump in SQ is soo big that I can live with it forever.



So I'll try to explain my install..

HU is in network mode, not in STD mode. I'm NOT using the passive crossover networks that came with the Focal components. So front door stock locations have a Focal 165VB, without the bundled network. Rear door stock locations have the Focal coaxial's. Subwoofer in the back, touching the wall of the rear seats facing the hatch.

The lows signal & highs signal from the HU is carried to a 4 channel amp. This amp is in full range mode(not using the amps XO for LPF or HPF). Tweeter output is normal left+right and subwoofer output is bridged.

The mids signal from the HU is fed into the second 4 channel amp. This amp too is in full range and powers the front door's components mid-bass and rear door's coax's in the regular left+right setup.

After all the wiring was done BUT BEFORE switching it on for the first time, I made sure that all the levels were down on the amps just as a precaution to not blow my speakers up just in case the stars decided to not be in my favour. Took out a pen and pressed the microprocessor reset button. Switched on the unit, went through the initial install and started it up. Remember I did not have any sound as the levels on the amp's where kept at zero. First I dialed in the crossover settings as desired by me but within the limits permitted by the speaker manufacturer. Which in my case was as below :
Low LPF - [email protected]
Mid LPF - [email protected]
Mid HPF - [email protected]
High LPF - [email protected]
Then after doing the network settings as above, I went to the position setting and selected front right. It is important to do so on this particular head-unit before running the AUTO EQ & TA because this informs the HU about the placement of the AUTO EQ & TA mic. I switched off the unit. Changed the levels on the amp to 3/4th of maximum. Connected the AUTO EQ & TA mic and placed it on the driver's seat just below the headrest. While the HU was switched off, a long press on the EQ button and voila.. AUTO EQ & TA menu comes. I selected the auto function and stepped out of the vehicle. Gave it some time by itself.

It's suggested that you do this in a quite place but all I wanted to do was fire it up ASAP so that's the reason why I took so many steps. It really speeds up the entire install process and guess what, I can do it again anytime I want .

The AUTO EQ & TA took about 8mins. Connected a USB drive and fired it up. Rocking!!:dancing:clap:wow:drinks
I cannot explain in words how much overwhelmed I was with the SQ, mind it this was before nuance tuning.. this too on a auto calibration algorithm.. Here I was, witnessing the grand rebirth of my Punto's ICE and all I could think of was "How can Fiat get it wrong on so many levels with the factory stereo??" :uh

Anyways, point is it's rocking like never before :dance 

First impressions:
The screaming focal tweeters have mellowed down a lot and sounding warm and great. The mids are crisp. Bass is tight, like really tight, that too from a ported box. Now the sound is proper. Needs some more fine-tuning, majorly because of my choice of rear door speakers. More than about the make of them, its about the decision to have something in the rear door's in the first place. I had the speakers installed from before and I decided to continue having them. 

I further took some time out to fine-tune some settings to tailor it to my tastes. Lowered down the mid-HPF to -4db, increased Low-LPF to +1db. increased SLA for USB to +1 and I'm thinking it sounds just about right. 

That's not the end though, fished out my playbook with a Sine-wave generator app, connected to the aux-in on the front of the HU, flattened out the 16 band EQ curves(at vol level 44) with an RTA to control clipping. That's it. The science part is done for now. Rest tuning if required will happen with the old school way of using my ears 

Check out the below image for a picture of the resulting EQ levels.









If any of you lives in Mumbai/Pune and wants to check out the install then you can ping me. I'll be happy to oblige whenever next I'm in that city.

********************
Hes posted more replies and the original thread can be accessed here if anyone is interested.

Pioneer DEH-80PRS install in 3-way active network mode | Team Fiat


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