# IDMAX vs FiQ vs TC Sounds LMSR



## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

SQL Driver?

I was talking with another member recently about these drivers and he suggested the TC Sounds driver. I figured why not put the comparison out to the world of Diyma and get some more thoughts. 

My goal - Sound quality with the capability of getting LOUD :laugh: - I think they call that SQL. 

Power on Tap - 1200 watts from a JL Slash V2 Amp

Will be running it in a sealed enclosure (prefer the sealed sound) which will be built to the specs of the driver. 

Thanks for your input!


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

Having personally owned an IDMAX for quite a while I'd totally recommend it. Gets plenty loud and sounds amazing doing so.

Mark


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

mfenske said:


> Having personally owned an IDMAX for quite a while I'd totally recommend it. Gets plenty loud and sounds amazing doing so.
> 
> Mark


Thanks for the input. I really really like the "look" of the IDMAX... I owned 2 IDQv3 12 and loved the SQ but I want more output. I may go down to 10 inch subs though to save space.

I wish there were more people around my area that cared about SQ and not just SPL so I could listen to there setups. Everyone is running either Digital Designs or Kicker in ported boxes. 

How much power are you running to your MAX? What size? 12? 10? What size box? Have you listened to the other two subs I mentioned? 

If anyone else wants to chime in that has heard these drivers please feel free.


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

Bump


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

Bump x 2


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

tc sounds...LMSR15 owner in home..
decent eff.. good SQ super low dist.. lowest 10 % per voltage input I ever measured in a home..
lowest 3-9th order dist.. any dist was mainly 2nd order.
will work sealed or ported 
will need eq in home, to reach the 10's but this thing is only down 6 db at 20 hz in a 90L box.. flat in house to 10 hz..
it breaks **** with 800W /ch on my crown K2 and it will take mo power.. just my 2 cents


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## jode1967 (Nov 7, 2012)

I owned a max twice. was tuning on system and opened a door and the max died a quick death. brand new and only about 10 mins on sub. sad that unloading the front of it killed it almost instantly, kinda turned me off on it after that. I ended up with a diamond d9 12 that I truly loved, and would suggest you to add that to your list as well.


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

jode1967 said:


> I owned a max twice. was tuning on system and opened a door and the max died a quick death. brand new and only about 10 mins on sub. sad that unloading the front of it killed it almost instantly, kinda turned me off on it after that. I ended up with a diamond d9 12 that I truly loved, and would suggest you to add that to your list as well.


I don't think what happened to you is a common occurence.... I'm pretty set on deciding between the drivers mentioned. Though I think I've added the JL W7 to the list. 

My main concern is that the music I listen to can be VERY bass heavy. Trance and Breakbeat mostly. So the driver needs to be able to handle constant abuse and be very responsive since the BPM can be high depending on the track.I also like my music loud. This is y I've added the W7 to the list of options.


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

TC for sure..they will take MOFO for power.
hit thilo up on the tc forum..


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## WRX2010 (Jun 11, 2011)

ESB Ottomilla 8000 12". handle 1000 watts RMS, 2000 peak. go down really low per the specs. Have to buy from Europe and have shipped. There was a pair for sale on here several months ago.

..: ESB :..


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## oline897 (Jan 27, 2010)

Anything from TC Sounds for sure imo. 

I run a 15" LMS Ultra with 2 passives and it is the smoothest, low playing, low distortion, most powerful sub I have owned. I also have some TC Epic 8's and they are the same way - just awesome. When I demo them for people they never believe that they are 8's and are just blown away in every aspect. 

I also have 8 idmaxs and they are always needing recones. The coil gap is too tight and if they get hot at all they are done. Anything past 700wrms is too much for constant listening. I have had the coils seperate and unwind causing misalignment. I have also had the spiders rip where the tinsel leads pass through often. They are a good driver but for me they are unreliable.



































My .02...


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## oline897 (Jan 27, 2010)

I just remembered something after looking at that 1st picture. Where that blue tape is located on the cone of the 1st idmax there was an air leak between the aluminum and composite cone. Another knock on the max.


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

oline897 said:


> Anything from TC Sounds for sure imo.
> 
> I run a 15" LMS Ultra with 2 passives and it is the smoothest, low playing, low distortion, most powerful sub I have owned. I also have some TC Epic 8's and they are the same way - just awesome. When I demo them for people they never believe that they are 8's and are just blown away in every aspect.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input! I really wish the TC Sounds LMS-R came in a 10 inch to conserve on space. I've also reconsidered my amp for the same reason. I think i'm going to go with the JL HD 750/1. You think this will be sufficient power? I know certain speakers don't sound as good if underpowered. How much power are you running to your 8's?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

For an SQL system, go ported to get the best from your HD750/1 

Kelvin


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

subwoofery said:


> For an SQL system, go ported to get the best from your HD750/1
> 
> Kelvin


Ported???  but what about all I've read on ported vs sealed? sealed is supposed to be tighter ,cleaner, have consistent volume/output throughout the low frequency spectrum... I really really want SUPERB SQ from my drivers. My friend has Digital Designs ported in his car and it sounds like SHIIIIIIIIIT! I would never tell him that but it does.... well 2 me. I ran a couple IDQv3s sealed a couple years ago and LOVED the accuracy of the sound. They were in a 1 cu. ft. sealed box each. Anymore input would be appreciated. :laugh: Oh and I should add I will be running 2 of them. 2 750/1 and 2 of the TC Sounds Drivers.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

If a ported box is designed specifically for the driver it can sound BETTER than a sealed box. Some subs work better with certain boxes but if you do your homework you can come out so much better with a ported box. The reason so many of your friends DD setups sound like **** is because they likely put them in the generic box recomendation DD recomends for all their subs. Or they got specs and designed the box for the specific purpose of getting loud (unlikely because those people are rare). Not knocking DD because I know a few people that work there personally and they're good people. I just feel they dropped the ball in a few areas of their business and technical support. I ran a DD 510 (entry level) that I won at a show and once I figured out through trial and error what box it wanted in my truck it was and still is one of my favorite subs that I've run to date. I'm not running it now because I needed a 4.5" lift on the back seat in my Ram to fit the gigantic box!!! I ran my Fi x10's ported for a while and they had the same tight response they did sealed but with MORE LOW END EXTENTION. How did I pull this off? I DESIGNED THE BOX CORRECTLY!!! They're back in sealed boxes now for space savings. 

So what am I trying to say here? Oh, now I remember. MOST people who bash ported boxes are just uneducated with A LOT to learn. They're a lot easier to mess up than sealed boxes but the rewards are much greater in my honest opinion. The ONLY reason I'm running sealed is because of the space savings. I'm really wanting to go from 10's down to some small box 8's for the sole purpose of going ported again. Oh, btw Fi subs work very well in extremely small ported boxes. .5 ported for the q10. And I guarantee it will walk all over a sealed q12. Probably sound cleaner too.


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## oline897 (Jan 27, 2010)

JT34237 said:


> Thanks for the input! I really wish the TC Sounds LMS-R came in a 10 inch to conserve on space. I've also reconsidered my amp for the same reason. I think i'm going to go with the JL HD 750/1. You think this will be sufficient power? I know certain speakers don't sound as good if underpowered. How much power are you running to your 8's?


800wrms each. It is nice to have a little headroom but I feel 500-600 wrms will achieve full output. I have tried many box designs, at the moment they are ported and if you build the correct size box and port tuning it will sound just as good, have more output and play lower with more output.


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> If a ported box is designed specifically for the driver it can sound BETTER than a sealed box. Some subs work better with certain boxes but if you do your homework you can come out so much better with a ported box. The reason so many of your friends DD setups sound like **** is because they likely put them in the generic box recomendation DD recomends for all their subs. Or they got specs and designed the box for the specific purpose of getting loud (unlikely because those people are rare). Not knocking DD because I know a few people that work there personally and they're good people. I just feel they dropped the ball in a few areas of their business and technical support. I ran a DD 510 (entry level) that I won at a show and once I figured out through trial and error what box it wanted in my truck it was and still is one of my favorite subs that I've run to date. I'm not running it now because I needed a 4.5" lift on the back seat in my Ram to fit the gigantic box!!! I ran my Fi x10's ported for a while and they had the same tight response they did sealed but with MORE LOW END EXTENTION. How did I pull this off? I DESIGNED THE BOX CORRECTLY!!! They're back in sealed boxes now for space savings.
> 
> So what am I trying to say here? Oh, now I remember. MOST people who bash ported boxes are just uneducated with A LOT to learn. They're a lot easier to mess up than sealed boxes but the rewards are much greater in my honest opinion. The ONLY reason I'm running sealed is because of the space savings. I'm really wanting to go from 10's down to some small box 8's for the sole purpose of going ported again. Oh, btw Fi subs work very well in extremely small ported boxes. .5 ported for the q10. And I guarantee it will walk all over a sealed q12. Probably sound cleaner too.



You are right about being uneducated about this topic hence why I'm asking questions. You mentioned there was a lot of trial and error to find the right box size? There isn't a solid way to figure it out WITHOUT trial and error? If trial and error is involved in the ported box method I would just go sealed just to not have to waste my time and money, plus I really want to conserve space. I believe it was initially mentioned to go ported because I wasn't going to have a lot of power available. If I went with a powerful amp would sealed be able to play back into the picture? Thanks for everyones input! "Knowledge is Power" :laugh:


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## jode1967 (Nov 7, 2012)

you can use winisd to figure out what box the driver wants, but what will be the telling truth is what cabin gain comes out to in your specific vehicle and setup. the car and the install can both change the cabin gain, thats where the trial and error comes in


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

jode1967 said:


> you can use winisd to figure out what box the driver wants, but what will be the telling truth is what cabin gain comes out to in your specific vehicle and setup. the car and the install can both change the cabin gain, thats where the trial and error comes in



I'm going sealed... See the attachment... that is what I would like my setup to look like. I need to have my trunk space!


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

jode1967 said:


> you can use winisd to figure out what box the driver wants, but what will be the telling truth is what cabin gain comes out to in your specific vehicle and setup. the car and the install can both change the cabin gain, thats where the trial and error comes in


This, but also the fact that DD doesn't give specs out. That's where your friends ****ty sound is coming from. But, like me, space is at a premium so sealed is your best bet.


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

JT34237 said:


> How much power are you running to your MAX? What size? 12? 10? What size box? Have you listened to the other two subs I mentioned?
> 
> If anyone else wants to chime in that has heard these drivers please feel free.


I was running about 700 at 14.4 to the MAX. I never heard it complain. It was in a prefab 1.3 cubic foot box from Parts Express. I've not listened to the other drivers. The TC looks pretty promising though I'd rather save the coin and get the MAX.


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

mfenske said:


> I was running about 700 at 14.4 to the MAX. I never heard it complain. It was in a prefab 1.3 cubic foot box from Parts Express. I've not listened to the other drivers. The TC looks pretty promising though I'd rather save the coin and get the MAX.


Have you had any issues with yours??? Several people in this thread mentioned problems with there ID subs. What size MAX did you own? I probably won't go with TC Sounds simply due to the fact that it doesn't come in a 10 inch. After much consideration I think the smaller driver will suit my needs just fine. This is due to saving space and need for output. At this point believe it or not the versus has evolved to.... The IDMAX and the JL W7... unfortunately due to the problems mentioned here with the MAX i'm leaning towards the W7.


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## tnbubba (Mar 1, 2008)

yea good driver.. too bad these fukers wont build drivers you can easily recone like the TC


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## Sound Suggestions (Dec 5, 2010)

My personal experience; after years of running JL subwoofers (W0's,W1's,W3's,W6v1 and v2's,w7's) I now run an IDMAX 12" and I don't believe that I will ever go back to a W7...don't get me wrong I ran a 10w7 (sealed and their high ouput box) and a 12w7 (sealed) they are very good and definitely very powerful...but the IDMAX 12" (sealed) is just more refined, it does everything very well and plays any type of music with grace or devastating out of this world explosion! I personally believe the Max to be a step up to the W7...now sometimes I dream of the ultimo or the dynaudio


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

TC Sounds Epic 10 in a 0.7cuft enclosure tuned to 28Hz - use one on each side and power it with either your Slash 1000/1 or with 1 HD1200/1 

Kelvin 

PS: no bass boost please...


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

subwoofery said:


> TC Sounds Epic 10 in a 0.7cuft enclosure tuned to 28Hz - use one on each side and power it with either your Slash 1000/1 or with 1 HD1200/1
> 
> Kelvin
> 
> PS: no bass boost please...


Stop making my decision more difficult Kelvin!   Every time I think I have it narrowed down something new is thrown into the mix. Do you work for TC Sounds??   I suppose the reason why I threw the w7 into the mix is because I know (even though a lot of people hate to admit it) JL does make a solid driver. The thing that throws me about the TC Sounds Epic is the lack of power handling the other drivers have. I would like to have a driver with the potential for some decent SPL even if the majority of the time I'm not using it for that purpose.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

JT34237 said:


> Stop making my decision more difficult Kelvin!   Every time I think I have it narrowed down something new is thrown into the mix. Do you work for TC Sounds??   I suppose the reason why I threw the w7 into the mix is because I know (even though a lot of people hate to admit it) JL does make a solid driver. The thing that throws me about the TC Sounds Epic is the lack of power handling the other drivers have. I would like to have a driver with the potential for some decent SPL even if the majority of the time I'm not using it for that purpose.


Don't work for them but I've used a couple of their product including the Epic line (TC Sounds/Audiopulse) and their TC3000 line 
I can tell you that my 2x Epic 8" sounds much bigger than their size and handles 1200 watts very well... 
I've heard the IDmax 12" a long time ago and those were really good drivers - only recently since I've heard about the cone popping and all kinds of problems... 
Never heard the FI Q though - read about it but that's it

Kelvin


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Sorry for the threadjack but figured it would be fitting for this topic about cramming big bass in small space. Kelvin, what does the Epic 8 need for ported? I've read the reviews about it on Partsexpress but feel the people reviewing it might not know what they're doing. You on the other hand is a different story judging by your track record on here.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Sorry for the threadjack but figured it would be fitting for this topic about cramming big bass in small space. Kelvin, what does the Epic 8 need for ported? I've read the reviews about it on Partsexpress but feel the people reviewing it might not know what they're doing. You on the other hand is a different story judging by your track record on here.


Problem with the Epic 8" is that it needs a small box with a low tune 25Hz-28Hz - I said problem coz with lots of power, the port becomes big fast... 
2 solutions: 
- passive radiator - keep it as small as possible so the passive will dictate the size of the enclosure
- vented enclosure with a PEQ using a low Q (Q of 1) - use a square vent to bend it around the sub and use the PEQ to lower the group delay peak @ tuning. Build the enclosure as big as you can and EQ to taste

Kelvin


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Sorry for the threadjack but figured it would be fitting for this topic about cramming big bass in small space. Kelvin, what does the Epic 8 need for ported? I've read the reviews about it on Partsexpress but feel the people reviewing it might not know what they're doing. You on the other hand is a different story judging by your track record on here.[/QUOTE
> 
> You said it perfectly... "cramming big bass in a small space" this is exactly my goal. The thing is I don't ALWAYS want to thump like my buddy with his Digital Designs but there is that moment when i'm like "Damn I really want to FEEEEEL the bass of this track!" :laugh: I want that potential and when I do crank it I want the bass to sound clean and accurate (like my IDQ did) and as I already mentioned I want my trunk space.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

Sorry if I missed, but how much total space available?


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## JT34237 (Apr 29, 2010)

cubdenno said:


> Sorry if I missed, but how much total space available?



I would like to be able to do something like this... i'm not sure what the dimensions are but those are 2 idmaxs


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

subwoofery said:


> Problem with the Epic 8" is that it needs a small box with a low tune 25Hz-28Hz - I said problem coz with lots of power, the port becomes big fast...
> 2 solutions:
> - passive radiator - keep it as small as possible so the passive will dictate the size of the enclosure
> - vented enclosure with a PEQ using a low Q (Q of 1) - use a square vent to bend it around the sub and use the PEQ to lower the group delay peak @ tuning. Build the enclosure as big as you can and EQ to taste
> ...


Thanks Kelvin. How big of a box would I need with a passive radiator?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Thanks Kelvin. How big of a box would I need with a passive radiator?


Don't think you'll be able to bring it down to 0.3cuft while fitting 1 x Epic 8" and this mofo...  
So yeah, as small as you can make it really. 

Kelvin 

Edit: you need to get creative in order to still have a small enclosure with a passive radiator 
Here's a pic of a design I got from Kyle @ TC Sounds - Enjoy!


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