# WTF Rainbow plat?!?!



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Oh my! 

Where'd the rear chamber go?


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## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

what's going on in here? 

If you pull these kinds of stunts too close to the release of your sub, mid, and tweet, you're risking the implosion of the universe dang.....


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Hmm... for $1300 I always thought these things were chambered, and not a Partsexpress special for $3.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

Now the $1300 question... how do they sound?


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2006)

npdang said:


> Oh my!
> 
> Where'd the rear chamber go?


jeez dang, don't you know _anything_?

That mounting cup acts as a 4th order, aperiodically loaded, quasi-bandpassed acoustical lens ...

man the people around here


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

they sound awesome, but Im shocked to find that they are that chinsy on building materials.


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## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

Yea, in the end, I think the way they sound would be more important.....


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## dingaling (Apr 14, 2005)

Gosh, my rainbow plats gets passed around like a 5 dolla HO!!!

but yeh, i was quiet shocked when I first found out myself...

things that make you go hmmmmm


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## racerraul (Jun 8, 2005)

I half expected there to see Ham Spread in there...


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

dingaling said:


> Gosh, my rainbow plats gets passed around like a 5 dolla HO!!!
> 
> but yeh, i was quiet shocked when I first found out myself...
> 
> things that make you go hmmmmm


 It gets treated like one too when you look at the stains on the dome...


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## Derek (Jun 4, 2005)

racerraul said:


> I half expected there to see Ham Spread in there...


or some silver polish cream....


or even some sliced olives.


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

npdang said:


> It gets treated like one too when you look at the stains on the dome...


 stains?       did I say  ?


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## racerraul (Jun 8, 2005)

Derek said:


> or some silver polish cream....
> 
> 
> or even some sliced olives.


Or Vienna sausages!
Or some of that silver grease you put on speaker terminals that improve midrange response...


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## Derek (Jun 4, 2005)

racerraul said:


> Or Vienna sausages!
> Or some of that silver grease you put on speaker terminals that improve midrange response...


ya know i stopped and looked at vienna sausages one day.

it's sick how many flavors and varieties those things come in. each with their own different colored label....in the same can.

astounding.

simply. astounding.


never eaten one though...


maybe that is where the tweeter got it's stains? sausage juice.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Derek said:


> ya know i stopped and looked at vienna sausages one day.
> 
> it's sick how many flavors and varieties those things come in. each with their own different colored label....in the same can.
> 
> ...


Yep sausage juice.... That's it!

Chad


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## tktran303 (Dec 30, 2005)

Hi prices is no indication of quality.

Sorry to say this, but this is not an extraordinary finding. Often premium products are premium only by branding and pricing.


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## zapjay (Jul 2, 2005)

Hmmmm..

Those look pretty crappy.....guess I'll just turn around and sell my new pair when they get here next week....


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

I would call that a "RIP OFF!"


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## mk1982 (Jul 3, 2005)

hey what does chambered mean anyway !!!!!!


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## 95Legend (Jun 24, 2005)

mk1982 said:


> hey what does chambered mean anyway !!!!!!



The rear chamber is basically a dampening chamber. It increases the compliance of the air behind the diagphram. Essentially, the principle is like increasing a subwoofer box size (sealed). You gain a lower resonance frequency and usually the tweeters will be able to play lower than traditional small compact dome tweeters.

I'm sure someone else can explain it better than I can.


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

I was given a dealer price of $300 each from the distributor..  
(Where is the middle finger smiley?)


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## racerraul (Jun 8, 2005)

So the question is... not how do they sound...

But WHO ate the Vienna sausages? And did they have a hint of German taste?


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Never actually took mine apart to see., judging by that black grill it is an older driver, probably from 2-3+ yrs ago....Not so sure whats to be disappointed about, its simply a pic w/ the housing removed-i'm sure theres reason for that airspace..

IT IS the finest sounding compact dome i've ever heard, its a keeper in my book....
Being we deal Dynaudio, DLs,Genesis, Focal, Morel Hifi and shortly Lotus...I can say this tweeter does 'it' for me..

$1300 is quite a stretch...is it pricey, yes. But thats what the whole active set (tweets/mids) go for...The tweets themselves msrp for $849, and can be had for mucho less.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

This is a Very misleading pic, theres a ton of speculation left. People are here bashing it and claiming it to be a $3 PE part or a "RIP OFF". But the pic Leaves Alot to be desired.

*Copied from my other post:
*
Sorry for bringing this thread back from the dead ...Im not sure of the age of the tweeter that you tested/reviewed, but it does appear to be quite outdated and not the current model as advertised having a vented backplate and connected to the acoustic chanber unlike your findings. Not doubting your research I just think you have an older version and comparing to current advertised specs. It does however exceed what the specs list as having an 8 hole, but rather 12. 

Can you post the rear of the one you currently have on hand? I snapped a few shots of one today for your viewing.




























The pics obviously speak clearly for themselves.

Np Im aware of your skills in testing products, any particular reason to Not show the actual backplate? Im mean in all fairness I can sell you a car claiming it to be a V12 engine, but if I dont open the hood you would call me on it correct? With that being said I dont doubt what you have holds true, but a very outdated product comparing to todays specs. Would you look at a 2002 car and see advertisements for a 2007 on TV and claim false advertising? Im not posting this in disrespect to anyone and yes it is my 2nd post, but do we judge people here on postcount? I can assure you I am certainly no newb.

As to the sound of them, yes I am slightly biased and Ill reserve my comments as this is obviously not what this post is about.

Also to clarify...SRP on the 2 way Platinum set for Active is $1800, Passive $3150. Yes the tweets are available seperately for $850 which is $450 below the numbers being slung around here. I hope the pricing can also put some things into better perspective.


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

good to have you here Don


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Hiya Joe !


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## foley316 (Aug 26, 2005)

I guess you just didn't get NpDangs personality. The guy's name on ECA is cheapboy. His goals are best bang for buck. I really don't care if these tweets gave me a bj every time I got in the car, no tweet is worth 850 bucks. Thats like people who pay 7 grand a tower in home theater that use drivers that can be had at madisound.com for like 60 bucks a driver. I guess if you want the top of the line completely regardless of price then these might be good for you. 

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=132374

Good Read.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

foley316 said:


> I really don't care if these tweets gave me a bj every time I got in the car, no tweet is worth 850 bucks.


I think I have to disagree with you on this one...  I would shell out $850 to have a system that gives you aural and oral satisfaction!


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

foley316 said:


> I guess you just didn't get NpDangs personality. The guy's name on ECA is cheapboy. His goals are best bang for buck. I really don't care if these tweets gave me a bj every time I got in the car, no tweet is worth 850 bucks. Thats like people who pay 7 grand a tower in home theater that use drivers that can be had at madisound.com for like 60 bucks a driver. I guess if you want the top of the line completely regardless of price then these might be good for you.
> 
> http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=132374
> 
> Good Read.



I am well aware of who he is and Ive also been a member on ECA for several years. Im not here to push a product nor endorse. Im just simply clearing the air of some of the speculation left on this thread. 

Your sexual preferences and spending habits are not of my concern.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Damn, and I thought they had an 8 holed backplate. Don, Thanks for clarifying that the Cal28 tweet is indeed acoustically chambered. 

Maybe the one tested was some chinese knockoff

Foley316, I agree no tweeter is worth $850. Glad that price is for the pair.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

You can hardly hold me at fault here if this is an "older" model. There was no model change, no announcement of any improvements or changes, and until recently no one came forward with any evidence to the contrary.

In either case, I will let others judge for themselves whether it is worth the money. 

Note: even $3 PE tweeters have a piece of wool/cotton dampening behind the dome.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

are you guys serious these really go for 850 a pair?? for a tweeter?

is that due to the dollar to english lb transfer or something?


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

I think you took my post out of context. I was trying to discredit you in anyway. Hence the reason I asked of the age. Although comparing the old product to new specs was and is my only point. It makes the product as well as the advertised specs seem far from true. In which case it obviously is not.

Again, not holding you at fault just clearing the guesses.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

newtitan said:


> are you guys serious these really go for 850 a pair?? for a tweeter?
> 
> is that due to the dollar to english lb transfer or something?



Retail?..Yes.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

foley316 said:


> I guess you just didn't get NpDangs personality. The guy's name on ECA is cheapboy. His goals are best bang for buck. I really don't care if these tweets gave me a bj every time I got in the car, no tweet is worth 850 bucks. Thats like people who pay 7 grand a tower in home theater that use drivers that can be had at madisound.com for like 60 bucks a driver. I guess if you want the top of the line completely regardless of price then these might be good for you.
> 
> http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=132374
> 
> Good Read.


 I'm just a bit biased against brands like Zapco, Brax, Phass, etc. releasing component sets who justify their high prices with hype and cosmetics rather than actual performance.

As soon as you can put up some evidence as to their lackluster performance, you get all sorts of "supporters" coming out of everywhere to say how we listen with our ears not our eyes.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

newtitan said:


> are you guys serious these really go for 850 a pair?? for a tweeter?
> 
> is that due to the dollar to english lb transfer or something?



Still quite less than the Graphic Pros,D1s,R1s...


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## Sephiroth619 (Jun 24, 2005)

werewolf said:


> jeez dang, don't you know _anything_?
> 
> That mounting cup acts as a 4th order, aperiodically loaded, quasi-bandpassed acoustical lens ...
> 
> man the people around here


lol, everytime I read this it cracks me up.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

FYI, I never said these weren't nice sounding tweeters. There is a bit of a rolloff above 10khz but with a good off-axis response, and the the lower end isn't very strong but that only serves to make it an extraordinarily easy to listen to tweeter.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

npdang said:


> You can hardly hold me at fault here if this is an "older" model. There was no model change, no announcement of any improvements or changes, and until recently no one came forward with any evidence to the contrary.
> 
> In either case, I will let others judge for themselves whether it is worth the money.
> 
> Note: even $3 PE tweeters have a piece of wool/cotton dampening behind the dome.


I'm beginning to doubt if that even is a Rainbow tweeter. No backholed plate(even the Cal25VAF has a 12 holed backplate at a fraction of cost), no felt in the chamber nor underneath the dome, the soldering on the cup doesnt look the same as the other I just saw shortly this afternoon, i see no holes/vents on that voice coil former. That number stamped? I've never seen anything like that in 4 yrs on any of their products.

And wheres the objective data?

I'm highly skeptical, there are way too many differences Not that objective data would matter if theres a possibility thats its a knock off of sorts, or a sabotaged/rigged tweeter.


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## dingaling (Apr 14, 2005)

um no it came direct from rainbow.
i bought it off DK a few yrs ago personally, when arc was rainbow's distributor.

i'm sure rainbow has modified/improved its design hence the drilling of the back plate on the smaller section.

cheapboy really has no reason to deceive anyone.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Do you have a shot of the former with holes in it and a pad under the dome?

How about sending me a tweeter for comparison sake? I can have it turned around in 1 day.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

npdang said:


> Do you have a shot of the former with holes in it and a pad under the dome?
> 
> How about sending me a tweeter for comparison sake? I can have it turned around in 1 day.



Currently I have an '05 model. Although '03-'04 claimed the same specs as todays models... Ill see if I cant dig one up.


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## rbenz27 (Mar 9, 2006)

I don't see what the big deal is. The review on the tweeter in the Review forum was very positive so its not like the tweeter is being bashed at all. The new model has come out and obviously made some improvements to the rear chamber.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Maybe because the tweeter he has above is one of the cosmetic ones handed out for shows and Not the actual CAL28.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

6spdcoupe said:


> Maybe because the tweeter he has above is one of the cosmetic ones handed out for shows and Not the actual CAL28.


LOL. So Npdangs comment of "I'd say it's the best compact dome I've heard" in that review, was of some generic Rainbow tweeter thrown together in a Cal28 housing. LOL. I wonder what he'd think subjectively of the REAL thing.

Rainbow stated that the CAL28 has NEVER gone under any revisions or changes. That these samples for show were first put together prior to their release for CES type shows and were not mean for sale.
That simply some manufacturers requested samples for show and they threw together a generic tweeter into the housing for shows. They stated the real cal28 tweeter would no function properly without holes in the backplate.

Leon, I hope you didnt pay too much for yours.


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

I think things are all getting blown out of porportion.


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

regardless of whatever they are, the fact is: any component set in that price range is massively marked up in price.


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

mikemareen said:


> regardless of whatever they are, the fact is: any component set in that price range is massively marked up in price.


most car audio equipment in any range is marked up at about the same percentage.


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

JoeHemi57 said:


> most car audio equipment in any range is marked up at about the same percentage.


I disagree, the difference in actual cost to make a entry level component set vs a high end component set is minimal.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

mikemareen said:


> regardless of whatever they are, the fact is: any component set in that price range is massively marked up in price.



That Opinion lies within the potential buyer. To some that is alot, to others its well worth its price regardless of the brand.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

skylar112 said:


> I think things are all getting blown out of porportion.


Not quite bro. Something isnt right here.
According to Stefan @ Rainbow, the only revision that was made was the 12holed backplate to the tweeter from the 8 hole, they just havent updated the website. So from the origin of this product, it HAS HAD an 8 holed backplate period, no ifs and buts.

Thats is not a genuine Cal28 tweeter. Is that the reason no objective data was released?


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

mikemareen said:


> I disagree, the difference in actual cost to make a entry level component set vs a high end component set is minimal.



Regardless at a dealer as well as retail price point the Margin is typically the same. Of course youll make more on a higher ticketed item, but it also costs the dealer more. The Percentage of the markup generally stays the same.


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

6spdcoupe said:


> The Percentage of the markup generally stays the same.


exactly.


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

6spdcoupe said:


> Regardless at a dealer as well as retail price point the Margin is typically the same. Of course youll make more on a higher ticketed item, but it also costs the dealer more. The Percentage of the markup generally stays the same.


yes your right from a dealer standpoint but from a manufacturer stand point it's different IMO.


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## demon2091tb (May 30, 2005)

Legistics....lol.

As i see i wouldn't buy something that expensive. I'm more of a budget bang for buck guy, i'm not gonna spend 300-400 on a single tweet when i could find something that performs close to or even better than this for much less. Now i'm not saying the CAL28 isint a nice tweeter, i've never heard it nor messed with any rainbow product/zapco/brax/etc, prices are just too inflated for me. But i'd like to get the most performance and such from a low priced item such as the LPG26's or something, i think once you start getting to a point of deminishing returns the price of a tweet like the CAL28 just dosent do it for me.......

Again i havn't messed with there products, so just going by what i've heard or seen. But if i had plenty of money to afford something like this......sure i'd buy them, if its what i wanted.


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## tdgesq (Apr 16, 2006)

3.5max6spd said:


> LOL. So Npdangs comment of "I'd say it's the best compact dome I've heard" in that review, was of some generic Rainbow tweeter thrown together in a Cal28 housing. LOL. I wonder what he'd think subjectively of the REAL thing.


Actually after comparing it side by side to several other tweeters he had this to say: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4081&highlight=rainbow. Since you posted in the same thread it seems like you probably ought to have known that.



3.5max6spd said:


> Rainbow stated that the CAL28 has NEVER gone under any revisions or changes.


Really? Then why do you say this:



3.5max6spd said:


> According to Stefan @ Rainbow, the only revision that was made was the 12holed backplate to the tweeter from the 8 hole, they just havent updated the website.


Somehow I'm getting the feeling that you don't really know the whole story either.



3.5max6spd said:


> That these samples for show were first put together prior to their release for CES type shows and were not mean for sale.
> That simply some manufacturers requested samples for show and they threw together a generic tweeter into the housing for shows. They stated the real cal28 tweeter would no function properly without holes in the backplate.


Samples for show. You mean inferior samples that are functional that nobody is supposed to listen to?  I guess if that's what Rainbow wants to do then it had better expect the kind of thing that happened here.



3.5max6spd said:


> Thats is not a genuine Cal28 tweeter. Is that the reason no objective data was released?


Most of the tweeter comparisons that NP has done don't include objective data. Of course, by your post count it is obvious that you already know that.

Instead of speculating and making thinly veiled accusations, perhaps we should get a "real" cal28 reviewed.


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## PlanetGranite (Apr 12, 2005)

Just incase someone may have missed this post:



dingaling said:


> um no it came direct from rainbow.
> i bought it off DK a few yrs ago personally, when arc was rainbow's distributor.
> 
> i'm sure rainbow has modified/improved its design hence the drilling of the back plate on the smaller section.
> ...



To remove speculation, why don't we ask ding if this unit was sold to him as an "actual" Cal28, or if it was sold to him as a "show" unit.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

My offer to test these tweeters still stands... priority mail is pretty cheap/fast for a tweeter and I can have it back out the same day.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

tdgesq said:


> Actually after comparing it side by side to several other tweeters he had this to say: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4081&highlight=rainbow. Since you posted in the same thread it seems like you probably ought to have known that..


What do any of these reviews mean if he actually never heard/tested/undressed...whatever.. the REAL deal?






tdgesq said:


> Really? Then why do you say this:


Dont try to make me seem like I'm contradicted myself. Those quotes are from two different bodies of text, at different times of the day. I found out via email after the fact that they recently did begin to use a 12 holed backplate, coming from an 8holed one.




tdgesq said:


> Somehow I'm getting the feeling that you don't really know the whole story either:


No, but I'm slowly finding out.




tdgesq said:


> Samples for show. You mean inferior samples that are functional that nobody is supposed to listen to?  I guess if that's what Rainbow wants to do then it had better expect the kind of thing that happened here.


Prior to the release of a product that is nothing unusual. The distributor or rep wants something physical to show a customer at a show, its not uncommon. Theres often unworking pieces at these shows simply for the physicality of it, to show the aesthetics and build quality of the driver. Whats so hard to understand about that? No one said this is ultimately the issue here, but a probability.




tdgesq said:


> Instead of speculating and making thinly veiled accusations, perhaps we should get a "real" cal28 reviewed.


No accusations are being made, I'm looking for answers. Its apparent that tweet taken apart is not a REAL Cal28. For a forum that is so into the technical side of things, I'm surprised more dont want to get to the bottom of it.
This thread was started to ridicule the build quality of the driver and gain negative reaction about it because of the price involved, yet the pictures shown dont resemble the actual production model as PROVEN by 6spdcoupe's pics. Look at the thread title, look at the first post.

Hell the pics themselves shocked me too.
Looking at Npdangs pics theres no holes in the vc former, no felt in the chassis, no felt under the dome(even their bottom of the line back to 2002 that i know have this), no vents at all in the backplate, soldering connections look diff, wires used as well...some stamped number Rainbow cannot familiarize...

I mean damn in a world so full of counterfits am I wrong for questioning its validity? Gimme a break.

I'm pretty surprised by the reaction of some of you. I understand the little love for caraudio product here and the price issues, but what gives? 
Npdang doesnt need you to stick up for him if he has done nothing wrong


Bottomline is a product is being bastardized in ways without merit. There was the wrong public perception of the product who've read this dating back to its post. Hell it was reviewed, but in reality it never was..lol




PlanetGranite said:


> To remove speculation, why don't we ask ding if this unit was sold to him as an "actual" Cal28, or if it was sold to him as a "show" unit.


That would be nice but another name was thrown into this mess, meaning another side of the story we dont know about.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Why would we have reason to suspect a counterfeit? These were purchased directly from the owner of Rainbow's distributor here in the US. I'm pretty certain he wouldn't sell Leon a demo unit without mentioning it.

Honestly though, wouldn't you be shocked at the build quality of a product that Rainbow refuses to sell (when I inquired years ago) for less than $800pr.?

And from a technical standpoint, even looking at pics of the newer version I'm still more impressed with how they sound than how they're built. Take a look at Alpine's much cheaper xt19 with it's ring radiator design, copper rings, and a rear chamber loading which has alot more thought put into it than drilling some holes and felt.

For anyone truly interested in "setting the record straight", please PM me and let's get these tested.


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## dingaling (Apr 14, 2005)

i honestly doubt that the tweeter I bought from DK was counter fit.
Dk told me he brought this set of tweeters over from germany when he was on a business trip over there. I highly doubt it would be in DK's nature to sell counterfeit **** as legit products. 

I have compared my tweets audibly to production Rainbow Platinum tweets that I have sold to customers and there was no audible difference. 

The machining on mine and production sets were identical.

there is no reason nor proof that the set I purchased is 'counterfeit' 
The evidence that the new tweets have different designs and extra felt does not necessarily mean mine were 'counterfeit' and did not come from Rainbow.


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

3.5max6spd said:


> Not quite bro. Something isnt right here.
> According to Stefan @ Rainbow, the only revision that was made was the 12holed backplate to the tweeter from the 8 hole, they just havent updated the website. So from the origin of this product, it HAS HAD an 8 holed backplate period, no ifs and buts.
> 
> Thats is not a genuine Cal28 tweeter. Is that the reason no objective data was released?


Manny now I think things are blown way out of porportion.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

The fact of the matter is that what you have there as a CAL28 is in Fact Not a CAL28. Thats the overall bottom line. Of course I in now way believe DK was aware of this when he gave it to you, but as I already stated it is Not a true CAL28. In actualality I believe it to be a CAL25.


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## tdgesq (Apr 16, 2006)

I believe you are right - it is a Cal25. In fact, I don't think anyone claimed it was a Cal28.


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

this he said she said **** is really showing much maturity on both sides.


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## tdgesq (Apr 16, 2006)

What are you talking about? I agree with 6spd that is indeed a cal25.


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## dingaling (Apr 14, 2005)

6spdcoupe said:


> The fact of the matter is that what you have there as a CAL28 is in Fact Not a CAL28. Thats the overall bottom line. Of course I in now way believe DK was aware of this when he gave it to you, but as I already stated it is Not a true CAL28. In actualality I believe it to be a CAL25.



If you're referring to the rainbow pro cal25 soft dome, you are wrong.
it is not a Cal25. There were noticable differences in the audible traits when using the rainbow plat that I bought and the cal25's that were shipped with the pro sets. I don't know about the new Cal25, but at the time when I purchased pro's and platinums, the Cal25's were very different from the platinum tweets.

Why is it so hard for you guys to believe that it may have been an earlier generation platinum tweet?


Since none of you guys have acutally seen, used, or heard the tweeter in question relative to the newer platinums, you have no grounds to discredit it as the real one either. What you hear from your dealers/distributors is no different from what I was told from my dealer/distributor at the time. Unless you get Stephan or his dad to come on here and state that DK did not get that tweeter from them directly, I don't see how you guys are offering any evidence to the contrary.


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

FYI:
Ding was a rainbow rep for many years, guys and gals..


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## tdgesq (Apr 16, 2006)

dingaling said:


> If you're referring to the rainbow pro cal25 soft dome, you are wrong.
> it is not a Cal25. There were noticable differences in the audible traits when using the rainbow plat that I bought and the cal25's that were shipped with the pro sets. I don't know about the new Cal25, but at the time when I purchased pro's and platinums, the Cal25's were very different from the platinum tweets.


Mmmm...... perhaps I was a bit hasty in my earlier assessment.


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## raamaudio (May 4, 2005)

Preproduction prototypes, first production run, second run with modifications that may or may not be announced. This happens all the time in many industries, I would imagine that is the case here as well. 

Right about DK, he is not of the nature to decieve anyone, very upstanding guy in all respects. 

Rick


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## sqkev (Mar 7, 2005)

Just get the "real" one in for npdang to test, subjectively or objectively, I value npdang's opinion and his testing data. 

While we're at it, someone send in the W7 as well. This site will' be flooded once the testing data is released.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

tdgesq said:


> I believe you are right - it is a Cal25. In fact, I don't think anyone claimed it was a Cal28.



No your right, it was claimed to be a Rainbow Platinum, in which case IS a CAL28


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

skylar112 said:


> this he said she said **** is really showing much maturity on both sides.



Thanks Chu, your thoughts of my maturity make me feel the love.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

dual700 said:


> FYI:
> Ding was a rainbow rep for many years, guys and gals..



FYI: 6spd IS rep for both Arc and Rainbow and has been a dealer for many years. I'm sorry, I dont see it changing any facts though.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

dingaling said:


> If you're referring to the rainbow pro cal25 soft dome, you are wrong.
> it is not a Cal25. There were noticable differences in the audible traits when using the rainbow plat that I bought and the cal25's that were shipped with the pro sets. I don't know about the new Cal25, but at the time when I purchased pro's and platinums, the Cal25's were very different from the platinum tweets.
> 
> Why is it so hard for you guys to believe that it may have been an earlier generation platinum tweet?
> ...


Its hard because the fact is that the CAL28 Always had a vented backplate. The pictured one does not.

Who says no experience? I have plenty I assure you of that. Im not dragging Stefan nor his father into this, they have both viewed the thread and what I have stated stands, there is no need to copy his emails all over this forum. Ive been in contact with him multiple times a day about this.

Why DKs name is even in here holds no value. It should have never been mentioned as it could be misinterpreted negatively.

Bottom line still remains that the tweeter first pictured is not a CAL28, thats it, nothing more, nothing less.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

whats up with all the hating? Not cool...  

Leo


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

wow this is like the biggest thread about tweeters 99% will never own lol

since ding and 6spd (who are both very nice guys by the way) are dealers, 3.5 can even jump in too since he and 6sp are so close in location

have rainbow send a single cal28 sample , with a the forum folks chipping in to pay for the overnight shipping both ways--fully insured against damage

and or send in a pair, and auction the set off to cover the "dealer" cost if they dont want to lose the socalled retail value of a tested tweeter

ive got $5 on it 

I know dang is not car audio mag with tons of advertisement etc, and some question his testing practices and objectivity, 

but it will be good press for rainbow and the dealers involved IMO


sooo can we no all get along again


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

If it's not a cal28, I'm curious what is it then? IIRC only the platinum tweeter had an aluminum housing.... and then why go through the expense of machining that housing for any model and not spend the relatively small amount to drill a few holes in the back of the tweeter? Leon also mentioned they sounded more or less identical to the "real" cal28's... and I do trust his ears.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

newtitan said:


> wow this is like the biggest thread about tweeters 99% will never own lol
> 
> since ding and 6spd (who are both very nice guys by the way) are dealers, 3.5 can even jump in too since he and 6sp are so close in location
> 
> ...


 I've never claimed to be unbiased, but I am honest. If it's good or if it sucks, I'm not going to say otherwise.

I noticed alot all of the times people had issues with any measurements, it was either because they didn't believe they represented any value, or simply ignorance. In any case, I've only had 1 instance where anyone ever presented their own measurements to refute any of mine... and that was with an energy storage/waterfall test on the Peerless 4" exclusive.


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## dingaling (Apr 14, 2005)

6spdcoupe said:


> Its hard because the fact is that the CAL28 Always had a vented backplate. The pictured one does not.
> 
> Who says no experience? I have plenty I assure you of that. Im not dragging Stefan nor his father into this, they have both viewed the thread and what I have stated stands, there is no need to copy his emails all over this forum. Ive been in contact with him multiple times a day about this.
> 
> ...


were you a rep/dealer 4 years ago? Were you a dealer at the time the first rainbow platinums arrived onto the US shores? Did you test out the first production runs of the Platinum sets? Did you listen or compare the tweeter in question? 

Where are the emails from Stefan? I would like to see what they have to say about these tweeters that DK got from them. Why are they relevant? Because they would be the ones who would know whether or not they sold it/gave it to DK. 

Your point of current production models having drilled holes in the back still does not affect the possibility that the tweeter in question did not in fact come from Rainbow. Just because my quarter doesn't have the same state imprinted one of the sides as your quarter doesn't prove that it didn't come from the US Mint.


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## Insane01VWPassat (May 12, 2006)

Simple note -


I dont think this post is retaining any of it original form or purpose. At this point it is nothing more than a pissing match between individual parties with seem to be motivaly driven on one side and simply in defense of a misrepresentation of inforamtion or even a mis communication on another.

Right now this post is going nowhere and personally I do not see the need for this post to resume, but obviously since the admin of this forum is involved in this sizing contest it appears to be a exception to the rules. "Do as I say not as I do" Is that how it works?

Since Stephen, his father, nor DK are involved in this conversation directly I dont see how bringing any names up and pointing blame or assumptions toward these individuals no matter what is fact or fiction will benifit a solution to this issue nor is it healthy in any way except to start B.S. rumors and additional Drama.

I have met stephen and his father as well as additional members of the Rainbow staff and even though our companies parted ways a few years ago Rainbow is a exceptional company with enginuity, resources, and most importantly pride in their products. I could honestly say that if any of this was true It would be a first and I high doubt that any member of the Rainbow staff would ever stoop to such poor business ethics by manufacturing or distrubiting products that would meet such claims as this post is in accusations of.

One thing to remember.... Year after year products even though retaining the same model numbers can and mist likely have changes to them that differ from previous production runs. Sometimes these changes are big and can be implemented between runs and even sometimes be implemented during production at last minute notice. I dont see why people are in such disbelief that this occurs. Its called R+D gentlemen.... This is what manufacutres do to learn about their own products as they move along thruought the year in order to provide better quality products to their customers. Personally I would prefer that this practice happens and not accuse the manufactures of such accusations and permit them to produce a product that I am going to be confiedent that it is the best it can be at the time of the purchase.

Hey Mods..... There is a difference between a pissing match and constructive debate........ open your eyes and close this thread and move on to another topic that is actually going ot benifit somebody instead of showing how much of a soap opera a forum can be!! I would expect this of Elite Car Audio..... Not here...


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

npdang said:


> I've never claimed to be unbiased, but I am honest. If it's good or if it sucks, I'm not going to say otherwise.
> 
> I noticed alot all of the times people had issues with any measurements, it was either because they didn't believe they represented any value, or simply ignorance. In any case, I've only had 1 instance where anyone ever presented their own measurements to refute any of mine... and that was with an energy storage/waterfall test on the Peerless 4" exclusive.


not saying it was me man, that questioned your stuff, 

but not everyone likees the klippel, some like dumax, some dont like testing unbaffled or whatever lol

just saying from a company stand point, selling 800 tweeters, to send them out for testing on a online forum it will take some work man thats all

most REALLY appreciate yor time and effort. especially since you put your a$$ and time and money to run the site on the line

and because of that alone not everyone will like it

l8

*sh$t if it helps Ill pay the overnight shipping* , I just want to see the testing done


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

6spdcoupe said:


> Thanks Chu, your thoughts of my maturity make me feel the love.


Hey Don, you know I'm with you, however not just you, you pointed out something that you discovered on your end, and they found something on their side that doesn't agree. Not trying to say anyone is trying to immature, I just think that its a misunderstanding and you've got people on both sides talking about whats right and wrong. Without looking at both in the same room this arguement could go on forever, and end in a stalemate. So I don't think that at this point arguing debating makes a damn difference. Does not solve the real mystery. Not saying you directly just saying in general on everyone.


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## Insane01VWPassat (May 12, 2006)

On one last note......

Speaking of prototypes and such..... we have an room full of such items... we frequently send these products to reps as well as as to set individuals. As well as for OEM clients we frequent prototypes to them for say project ABC.
We send a proposed finished sample of project ABC to a customer... they approve it.... they get other pre production samples or project ABC..... then before the production run occurs somebody goes... Hey we can do this...

Then a change is made and now the other pre production pieces are now in circulation and have a label on them as project abc..... get the idea...


The other possible scenerio....


a manufacture is getting ready for CES or similiar and the manufacture has theirr vendor provide them with a show and go unit that makes noise and looks and acts the part of the finished product since the final andactual production units are not ready...


Just some ideas and possibilities becuase this happens with most all manufactures when it comes to deadlines...


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## Insane01VWPassat (May 12, 2006)

newtitan said:


> not saying it was me man, that questioned your stuff,
> 
> but not everyone likees the klippel, some like dumax, some dont like testing unbaffled or whatever lol
> 
> ...




At this point send it to a professional lab with the proper equipment to analize the fine details in the products...... not just a excentric enthusiest who test products in his garage and own vehicle.... god bless his heart for doing more than what most people do but at this point he has somehting to signifient to loose becuase of his heavy hearted involvement aka (Genitalia sizing contest) in this conversationand him being moderator and admin it would look against him for shutting down this thread as a form of retreat. Even though this post and others like it forum look more and more like the other circus acts online. If this was my forum I would put the pride aside and shut this post down to retain the composure of what this forum is all about and its not to argue like children. Even though this does not reflect myslef or this company I believe at this point his evaluation will be biased and not fair to the debate at hand. Just my $.02


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## GMo (Aug 9, 2005)

This thread hasn't gotten out of control in any way.
NP posted pics of a supposed tweeter, some reps said it isn't a tweeter made by the company. 
I think it's very reasonable for Rainbow to recognize the obvious build quality issue....whether it's a prototype, demo unit, etc.... This warrants an official explanation from Rainbow, and I think it would only be beneficial to send out an "official" CAL28 to test.

Anyone who's spent the ridiculous amount of money these cost deserves an explanation. And anyone who's involved with buying/selling these or planning on is in the same boat.

This public forum is the easiest place for communication to occur.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Insane01VWPassat said:


> At this point send it to a professional lab with the proper equipment to analize the fine details in the products...... not just a excentric enthusiest who test products in his garage and own vehicle.... god bless his heart for doing more than what most people do but at this point he has somehting to loose becuase of his heavy hearted involvement in this conversation and even though this does not reflect myslef or this company I believe at this point his evaluation will be biased and not fair to the debate at hand. Just my $.02


With all due respect, keep your .02. You're insulting the man on his own forum. You asked earlier for the thread to close, why are you continuing to post in it? If you feel the thread is unproductive, Leave It. I'm seeing people with post counts of 3 and 4 who've only contributed to this lame thread. Seem's to me that they have a bit of bias. 

You people who've added nothing productive to DIYMA, who've only signed up for your own self serving purposes', please take a hike.

Thanks


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## Insane01VWPassat (May 12, 2006)

GMo said:


> This thread hasn't gotten out of control in any way.
> NP posted pics of a supposed tweeter, some reps said it isn't a tweeter made by the company.
> I think it's very reasonable for Rainbow to recognize the obvious build quality issue....whether it's a prototype, demo unit, etc.... This warrants an official explanation from Rainbow, and I think it would only be beneficial to send out an "official" CAL28 to test.
> 
> ...



This is no longer just communication..... They have turned it into a personal argument. I would not even classify it as a debate anymore....


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

bassfromspace said:


> With all due respect, keep your .02. You're insulting the man on his own forum. You asked earlier for the thread to close, why are you continuing to post in it? If you feel the thread is unproductive, Leave It. I'm seeing people with post counts of 3 and 4 who've only contributed to this lame thread. Seem's to me that they have a bit of bias.
> 
> You people who've added nothing productive to DIYMA, who've only signed up for your own self serving purposes', please take a hike.
> 
> Thanks


Im sorry I didnt realize post count gave credibility.

Am I biased? No, see the sig, am I not running one of the products that the main contributors of this forum endorse?

I am simply getting to the facts.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm not a fan of heavy moderation. If someone wants to say something, even if it's not wholly constructive I feel they should have the right to say it as long as they're being civil. Remember, no one's forcing you to read or participate in this thread if you don't want to. And really, who is to decide what is "constructive" and what isn't? As long as people aren't sitting there openly insulting or threatening each other repeatedly, what's the harm in keeping the thread open?

I also take some offense at this statement:

"Right now this post is going nowhere and personally I do not see the need for this post to resume, but obviously since the admin of this forum is involved in this sizing contest it appears to be a exception to the rules. "Do as I say not as I do" Is that how it works?".

I honestly don't see how anyone could make that statement, much less someone with 2 posts to their name. Nor am I involved in any "sizing contest". 6spd established the fact that these were indeed not current model cal28's. I have no problem with that. I do take offense though with being accused of purposefully deceiving people in a veiled fashion.


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## Insane01VWPassat (May 12, 2006)

bassfromspace said:


> With all due respect, keep your .02. You're insulting the man on his own forum. You asked earlier for the thread to close, why are you continuing to post in it? If you feel the thread is unproductive, Leave It. I'm seeing people with post counts of 3 and 4 who've only contributed to this lame thread. Seem's to me that they have a bit of bias.
> 
> You people who've added nothing productive to DIYMA, who've only signed up for your own self serving purposes', please take a hike.
> 
> Thanks



I didnt join for this post.... and ..... if anything I should be biased against Rainbow..... So please tell me where I benifit from how this post turns out?

as far as commig out on the admin... well he created this forum to get away from the drama of other not to be names forums... Now he is contribuiting to the same stuff that has given bad name to other forums.... doent make sense...


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

npdang said:


> I'm not a fan of heavy moderation. If someone wants to say something, even if it's not wholly constructive I feel they should have the right to say it as long as they're being civil. Remember, no one's forcing you to read or participate in this thread if you don't want to. And really, who is to decide what is "constructive" and what isn't? As long as people aren't sitting there openly insulting or threatening each other repeatedly, what's the harm in keeping the thread open?
> 
> I also take some offense at this statement:
> 
> ...


Np as I posted a page or so back, I never tried to imply that you Intentionally tried to deceive anyone. For all I know you believed this to be a true CAL28 tweet and based your thoughts upon that. I am not trying to discredit you or your findings in anyway.


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## PlanetGranite (Apr 12, 2005)

Insane01VWPassat said:


> At this point send it to a professional lab with the proper equipment to analize the fine details in the products...... not just a excentric enthusiest who test products in his garage and own vehicle....


The following comment has little to do with the thread at hand, but....

With companies such as Peerless and Dayton sending their pre-production models to "excentric enthusiest who test products in his garage", can we not agree that there is validity in the DIY testing method? I mean, aside from anechoic chambers, what is DIY testing really lacking?


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## Insane01VWPassat (May 12, 2006)

npdang said:


> I'm not a fan of heavy moderation. If someone wants to say something, even if it's not wholly constructive I feel they should have the right to say it as long as they're being civil. Remember, no one's forcing you to read or participate in this thread if you don't want to. And really, who is to decide what is "constructive" and what isn't? As long as people aren't sitting there openly insulting or threatening each other repeatedly, what's the harm in keeping the thread open?
> 
> I also take some offense at this statement:
> 
> ...



So psot count has credibility... interesting.... and this kind of conduct in other forums would be reffered to as exactly what I called it....

Please... quote me correctly not in Fiction... if I was going to say you were decieving people I would use those words... I somply stated you have a position in this argument and that your decisions on a side by side test would have a obvious weight to its since you are making the claims that you are.


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## Insane01VWPassat (May 12, 2006)

PlanetGranite said:


> The following comment has little to do with the thread at hand, but....
> 
> With companies such as Peerless and Dayton sending their pre-production models to "excentric enthusiest who test products in his garage", can we not agree that there is validity in the DIY testing method? I mean, aside from anechoic chambers, what is DIY testing really lacking?




at this point..... a very biased review by somebody who has credibility discretion of his comments to be questioned in the future and to protect. On another note I do not recognize him nor does the general industry recognize him as a reputable member or credible known member of the industry whos test findings are considered to hold weight on speaker design and sound by other companies or industry publications within or ourside of the 12 volt market.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Insane01VWPassat said:


> This is no longer just communication..... They have turned it into a personal argument. I would not even classify it as a debate anymore....


 I think you should perhaps take your own advice, and not post if you're not adding anything constructive. If it bothers you so much, please don't read it. There's certainly no need to start on me, the forum, or the members here.

If you had actually perused any of my comments regarding the Rainbow tweeter, you'll find them quite favorable except for the build quality vs. price. And I do believe that the person who stands to gain financially from the sale of Rainbow is usually the more biased party? And I'm not saying anyone here is.

I'm also disappointed that you would criticize my measurement setup without leaving any useful comments. Perhaps a lab with an anechoic chamber and a rig that's calibrated daily would yield a bit more accurate results, but not at the level your post implies. Also, when you consider a comparison of drivers you'll find absolute accuracy matters not one bit.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

6spdcoupe said:


> Np as I posted a page or so back, I never tried to imply that you Intentionally tried to deceive anyone. For all I know you believed this to be a true CAL28 tweet and based your thoughts upon that. I am not trying to discredit you or your findings in anyway.


 6spd, you are a true gentleman. I only refer to several comments asking why I did not post any objective data, nor take a shot of the rear of the driver "as if I was hiding something". My apologies if I read otherwise.


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## Insane01VWPassat (May 12, 2006)

npdang said:


> I think you should perhaps take your own advice, and not post if you're not adding anything constructive. If it bothers you so much, please don't read it. There's certainly no need to start on me, the forum, or the members here.
> 
> If you had actually perused any of my comments regarding the Rainbow tweeter, you'll find them quite favorable except for the build quality vs. price. And I do believe that the person who stands to gain financially from the sale of Rainbow is usually the more biased party? And I'm not saying anyone here is.
> 
> I'm also disappointed that you would criticize my measurement setup without leaving any useful comments. Perhaps a lab with an anechoic chamber and a rig that's calibrated daily would yield a bit more accurate results, but not at the level your post implies. Also, when you consider a comparison of drivers you'll find absolute accuracy matters not one bit.



God bless you heart for the efforts you make.... however ask any manufacture, publications, or industry vet and they will all tell you that speaker measurement and observation is the most opiniative and non discretional evaliation of all audio products. Since sound is so subjective to ones personal likings and opinion it is extremely easy to let personal interest and you own idea of what good sound really is overplay the results of your subjective test created by the equipment you credit your results on. I dont know how many times Ive heard the statement... so what if it does good on paper.... how does it sound. Make sense?


Well its late and its time for me to head home.... I hope this thread finds a cival resolution soon. NP...... my biggest reason for commenting on this post is becuase of the past complaints you have made about similiar stlye threads on other forums and the consiquences that occur. I enjoy and respect the open attitude of this forum and not the hardcore moderation but from a seniority position and your past comments on why this forum was created ,I am just suprised you would be the initiator of a thread that directs its orientation in what appears to be a disaccrediation or a reputable manufacture and its products. Maybe a recourse in your selection of topic and opening statement s should of been an option. But then again who am I to say... you pay the bills here so its your house...

Regards


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2006)

> at this point..... a very biased review by somebody who has credibility discretion of his comments to be questioned


As an outside observer on this whole thread, Insane01VWPassat, exactly what credibilty do you bring to the table, after joining a forum and 9 posts in, clearly having an axe to grind?

cheers,

AJ


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Insane01VWPassat said:


> So psot count has credibility... interesting.... and this kind of conduct in other forums would be reffered to as exactly what I called it....
> 
> Please... quote me correctly not in Fiction... if I was going to say you were decieving people I would use those words... I somply stated you have a position in this argument and that your decisions on a side by side test would have a obvious weight to its since you are making the claims that you are.


 No, post count doesn't matter a bit. Show me where I said that? I'm only implying that you are not a contributor in any sense here so perhaps it's not your place to tell anyone how this forum should be run.

I also think it's quite presumptious of you to claim you know the reasons why this forum was created, or that I was quoting you in the above reply which I did not.

If you want to believe I'm biased and incapable, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. It only bothers me that I can't for the life of me figure out why you would make such comments or what it would add to this post?


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

dude works for Arc Audio, well assuming his sig is personal


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Insane01VWPassat said:


> at this point..... a very biased review by somebody who has credibility discretion of his comments to be questioned in the future and to protect. On another note I do not recognize him nor does the general industry recognize him as a reputable member or credible known member of the industry whos test findings are considered to hold weight on speaker design and sound by other companies or industry publications within or ourside of the 12 volt market.



I think the issue lies with the fact that you have the majority of your posts on this forum in this one thread. For someone who claims to be non-biased, you've spent an inordinate amount of time bashing the admin. Now you're insulting the admin by implying that he's biased and his testing method is inadequate. Since you're such a name dropper, please name me some industry figures who started out in loudspeakers with a $250,000 testing rig. I don't think Dang is the be all, end all of testing, but I don't think he'd say that either. What he lacks in testing equipment, he makes up for in gusto. I can think of one occasion that he may have messed up as far as testing, but he was corrected and he didnt argue the point to save face. He simply took the new information and added it to his knowledge base. If he 's not an industry heavyweight, he will be soon.

6spd,

Im not implying that post count makes one smarter than another. Im simply saying that insane and you have had nothing significant to add to this forum since you've registered. In other words, outside of your own self-serving interests (you did say you were a rainbow dealer, correct?) you've only used the forum to start a bunch of crap. You even went as far as dragging up an old thread in one of the other sections.

Simply put, this thread has gained the most posts, in the least amount of time, in the history of DIYMA because a few people want to make sure their interests are protected. If DIYMA is a forum where you disagree with how things are handled, Leave.

It's that simple.

We were doing fine without you two.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2006)

> God bless you heart for the efforts you make.... however ask any manufacture, publications, or industry vet and they will all tell you that speaker measurement and observation is the most opiniative and non discretional evaliation of all audio products. Since sound is so subjective to ones personal likings and observation it is extremely easy to let personal interest and you own idea of what good sound really is overplay the results of your subjective test created by the equipment you credit your results on. I dont know how many times Ive heard the statement... so what if it does good on paper.... how does it sound. Make sense?


No. That is absolute, nonsensical rubbish. If speaker measurement and observation are essentially useless, how are the drivers designed by the manufacturer? How do _they_ make it sound "good"? Magic?

cheers,

AJ


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## Insane01VWPassat (May 12, 2006)

AJinFLA said:


> As an outside observer on this whole thread, Insane01VWPassat, exactly what credibilty do you bring to the table, after joining a forum and 9 posts in, clearly having an axe to grind?
> 
> cheers,
> 
> AJ



Grind with who? and how?

Never claimed credibility? if I did please quote me... on the other hand I have created my own extremely small nitch within the industry and it pays my bills and gives me job security. Enough Said...... Cheers!


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## tdgesq (Apr 16, 2006)

Insane01VWPassat said:


> Grind with who? and how?
> 
> Never claimed credibility? if I did please quote me... on the other hand I have created my own extremely small nitch within the industry and it pays my bills and gives me job security. Enough Said...... Cheers!


That's good, because you've ensured that you never will have any here.


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## Insane01VWPassat (May 12, 2006)

bassfromspace said:


> I think the issue lies with the fact that you have the majority of your posts on this forum in this one thread. For someone who claims to be non-biased, you've spent an inordinate amount of time bashing the admin. Now you're insulting the admin by implying that he's biased and his testing method is inadequate. Since you're such a name dropper, please name me some industry figures who started out in loudspeakers with a $250,000 testing rig. I don't think Dang is the be all, end all of testing, but I don't think he'd say that either. What he lacks in testing equipment, he makes up for in gusto. I can think of one occasion that he may have messed up as far as testing, but he was corrected and he didnt argue the point to save face. He simply took the new information and added it to his knowledge base. If he 's not an industry heavyweight, he will be soon.
> 
> 6spd,
> 
> ...




Thank you for you kind comments..... Id still like to know how this post benifits me?


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

The only thing out of control in this thread are members who have absolutely no experience firsthand with the drivers chimming in and picking sides in an argument that is NOT MEANT TO BE POLARIZED.
The question here is concerning the differences between the reviewed tweet and that actually posted by 6spdcoupe, which I commend for even going so far as to take such expensive speaker apart- not everyone is willing to do so. This clarified that Rainbows claims and advetisements on the features of the tweeter is NOT folklore nor misconception. If it hadnt been posted people still would think that the tweeter is not acoustically loaded, etc...

Theres is NO ANYMOSITY in any of my arguments with Leon or Npdang. Had no one else posted in this thread we would've come to the conclusion many pages ago, and the tone of the thread would've remained civil. So I dont see why people felt the need to start picking sides.

To get another subjective review of this tweeter doesnt serve a purpose to anyone. Anyone thats heard it can claim its a nice sounding tweeter. However I cant say i wouldnt be interested in seeing objective data on the tweeter Npdang tested vs a current Cal28, to see where and how these differences affect the freq response of the drivers.
Considering the date the Platinums were first released and the time Leon got a hold of these tweeters, its likely fair to conclude in conjuction to Rick and Freds assesments on the possibility of pre-production models/first run batches etc... Perhaps we should just leave it at that.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Insane01VWPassat said:


> Thank you for you kind comments..... Id still like to know how this post benifits me?


You tell me. You're the one that's spending so much time insulting people on a forum you've found no use for until now.


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## Insane01VWPassat (May 12, 2006)

AJinFLA said:


> No. That is absolute, nonsensical rubbish. If speaker measurement and observation are essentially useless, how are the drivers designed by the manufacturer? How do _they_ make it sound "good"? Magic?
> 
> cheers,
> 
> AJ



I couldnt even tell you how many drivers ive seen come thru hands that look great on paper and still sound like garbage. I know that in a fantasy world numbers would reign a definiative resolution to speaker design since at that point all you would have to do is design a speaker that would look good on paper and test well, but this is the real world and I talked with many credible testing facalities that have commented on that some drivers they personally loved the sound of did not test well at all on paper.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

bassfromspace said:


> I think the issue lies with the fact that you have the majority of your posts on this forum in this one thread. For someone who claims to be non-biased, you've spent an inordinate amount of time bashing the admin. Now you're insulting the admin by implying that he's biased and his testing method is inadequate. Since you're such a name dropper, please name me some industry figures who started out in loudspeakers with a $250,000 testing rig. I don't think Dang is the be all, end all of testing, but I don't think he'd say that either. What he lacks in testing equipment, he makes up for in gusto. I can think of one occasion that he may have messed up as far as testing, but he was corrected and he didnt argue the point to save face. He simply took the new information and added it to his knowledge base. If he 's not an industry heavyweight, he will be soon.
> 
> 6spd,
> 
> ...


So knowing facts is not in your interests, thats fine with me, but makes me curious as to why you continue to read this thread. If you dont find any of my threads informative or useful, kindly step aside and let the next man that Does actually want to know something read it. 

Yea Im starting crap by posting an obvious flaw in the thread? Im glad you see things that way, tunnel vision is certainly with you my friend as it appears you have a one track view of things. I brought up an old thread, but you sem to be posting it as well, with of course nothing to contribute, look whos calling the kettle black.

Yes I am a Rainbow dealer as well as a Rep, but show me how this benefits me. Did you see any sales pitches here? When I did mention that I was a rep/dealer it was only to reply to someone else posting that I or others have no experience with the older products. Not to endorse it by any means. I do have a life outside of forum surfer so to spend countless time on one to *maybe* make a sale would not be in my best interests.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2006)

You have completely dodged my question. How are good sounding drivers designed? By what methodology?

cheers,

AJ


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I agree. I would like to add however that measurements are not wholly descriptive of a speaker's performance, yet they're hardly unimportant either.

FWIW, I've never seen a driver with "bad measurements" that sounded good, although similar to your own experience I have seen many drivers with good specs that sounded bad.

And just an FYI, this is a hobbyist site. Nothing more. I'm not trying to earn a living, break into the industry, or force my opinions on others.


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## PlanetGranite (Apr 12, 2005)

Insane01VWPassat said:


> On another note I do not recognize him nor does the general industry recognize him as a reputable member or credible known member of the industry whos test findings are considered to hold weight on speaker design and sound by other companies or industry publications within or ourside of the 12 volt market.


I'm sorry, I should have stated that I was referring to the DIY testing method in general, not npdang specifically.

I don't really care about industry recognition, but when a general audio enthusiast (me) observes Ken Kantor (Tymphany) and Darren K (Dayton) sending speakers to DIY testers (specifically jkrutke and Mark K), I see that as a form of validating the DIY test method.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

3.5max6spd said:


> The only thing out of control in this thread are members who have absolutely no experience firsthand with the drivers chimming in and picking sides in an argument that is NOT MEANT TO BE POLARIZED.
> The question here is concerning the differences between the reviewed tweet and that actually posted by 6spdcoupe, which I commend for even going so far as to take such expensive speaker apart- not everyone is willing to do so. This clarified that Rainbows claims and advetisements on the features of the tweeter is NOT folklore nor misconception. If it hadnt been posted people still would think that the tweeter is not acoustically loaded, etc...
> 
> Theres is NO ANYMOSITY in any of my arguments with Leon or Npdang. Had no one else posted in this thread we would've come to the conclusion many pages ago, and the tone of the thread would've remained civil. So I dont see why people felt the need to start picking sides.
> ...


I said it to another member and i'll continue to say it. This forum is the ONLY forum where the admins don't have some type of brand bias that affect's how they respond to threads and other members. Dang does a good job moderating.

I have no issue with debates. They're constructive. It's difficult for me, however, to stomach the guy being bashed and insulted on his own forum because of an old test report. The fact that it's coming from people with an interest in the outcome make's it worse.

I'm with you, however. It may have been a pre-production unit. Who knows? I hope there's a resolution soon.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

and oh yeah 

not that I dont disagree with dang sometimes in his reviews, nor should I or anyone else, thats the objective part of audio but I RESPECT THE EFFORT AND MONEY INVOLVED

but man insaneVW came out of nowhere to just dump excrement on this site and the admin??? because you disagree with a demo tweeter review ?? there has to be more to the story than that?

to call dude basically meaningless and inconsequential since some "arbitrary" corporate enitites dont agree with his testing methods seems a tad unfair and unreasonable--and rather elitist in nature

or after all the work dang has put into this site, you think he would dump his own personal integrity in the dirt to prove that he TWICE liked a tweeter? it not like he said it sucked 

but cmon lets be real for a tweeter he said was the best compact tweetet he had heard?

for all us average folks (no corporate affiliation) who think a compact dome that retails for 800 pair is ridiculous ?? and looks light on build quality when I can pay a mortgage with that in most states lol

please can we move on to the next thing

I sure hope we continue to see reviews from npdang, and I SURELY we dont have coporate interest bashing the site admin because he like the sound of the unit, but not he cost vs materials

*option two * send the tweeter out and have dingaling and dang do the review side by side hows that ??


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## Derek (Jun 4, 2005)

fred i thought you worked for ID...what happened?


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## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

See 6spdcoupe, Don, I was not directing the maturity comment at you, but I go away for an hour just to find this getting blown out of porportion even worse from people that have nothing to do with anything, except to add fire to the fuel. I think this thread should be subjected to the people that have the "older" and the "newer" tweeters, the rest should pretty much shut the [email protected] up and mind your own business. Perhaps we wouldn't have pages and pages of nonsense. I too will do the same thing. I personally like this forum a lot, and hate for it to turn into caraudio.com or sounddommain.com lets be courteous, if you can't be courteous at least add things that are inciteful. Again I'm going to keep my mouth shut, I hope that the people like me that have nothing to do with it keep their .02 to themselves as its has proven to useless. Good day, RIP.


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## foley316 (Aug 26, 2005)

I'm still looking for the BJ tweeter. I thought I had it here but it was actually B*G*. Oh well, got a good tweet anyways. In the end, NpDang has a tweet he believes to be a rainbow and is not to the standards he believes they should be. 6Speed disagrees it to be a Rainbow. The rest of the points are null. Unless there is undeniable proof either direction this post will keep going around in circles. I love this forum for the simple reason, most posts don't end up like this. People jumping in all crazy, misconceptions, miscommunications and misinterpretations. I have half a mind to threadjack this and bring up something completely unrelated. What am I saying, I love drama. Please, continue.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

skylar112 said:


> See 6spdcoupe, Don, I was not directing the maturity comment at you, but I go away for an hour just to find this getting blown out of porportion even worse from people that have nothing to do with anything, except to add fire to the fuel. I think this thread should be subjected to the people that have the "older" and the "newer" tweeters, the rest should pretty much shut the [email protected] up and mind your own business. Perhaps we wouldn't have pages and pages of nonsense. I too will do the same thing. I personally like this forum a lot, and hate for it to turn into caraudio.com or sounddommain.com lets be courteous, if you can't be courteous at least add things that are inciteful. Again I'm going to keep my mouth shut, I hope that the people like me that have nothing to do with it keep their .02 to themselves as its has proven to useless. Good day, RIP.



Chu, you know me well enough, like a animal Im peaceful unless provoked. In which case the only nudging that has been done was by people that have nothing to contribute fact or fiction to this thread. As you clearly saw I have nothing against np,Leon,Eng. The 'debates' between us have gone relatively smoothly, its the poking and prodding of others that I dont appreciate unless they have something constructive to state. 

So my post count is low and Ive only been registered for a few months, I can confortably say that my knowledge in this industry grants me the permission to post my feelings as well as factual data. Far be it for me as a "newb" to question someone that has a couple hundred post count, because as it appears to some thats what makes you credible.

I came on this thread to update some factual points, not to start an arguement or bring out the drama queens. What Really got my attention was the title to the thread of: "WTF Rainbow Plat?!?!" and comments of it being nothing more than a $3 PE special. This thread was originally started depicting whether the CAL28 lived up to its published specs or not. THAT is what I was posting on. To be quite honest I dont give a flying rats *a*ss who got what from who and where why, etc. It is All irrelevant to the fact as well as the original topic at hand.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

np, if you would care to continue this conversation via phone I would be more than happy to ablige.


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Nothing left to say on my part. Just for the record I always thought the tweeter sounded good, but the version I had looked a bit "skimped on" construction wise. Perhaps I shouldn't have made some comments, but I was really shocked that such an expensive aluminum housing was not acoustically loaded to the tweeter.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

And thank you to you and this thread as that is what gave me the push into cracking one open and investigating with Stefan.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

6spdcoupe said:


> So my post count is low and Ive only been registered for a few months, I can confortably say that my knowledge in this industry grants me the permission to post my feelings as well as factual data. Far be it for me as a "newb" to question someone that has a couple hundred post count, because as it appears to some thats what makes you credible.


I know who ya are nut brother  Welcome to da Deema forum


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Fox? Hey Whats up bud?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

6spdcoupe said:


> Fox? Hey Whats up bud?


Just catchin up on the e-drama. Hey, got some Cal 25 silky's coming my way (a la Joehemi)...hopefully they are not display models...buwaahahahahah  Better not be since they can be traced to you!!


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## JoeHemi57 (Mar 28, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> Just catchin up on the e-drama. Hey, got some Cal 25 silky's coming my way (a la Joehemi)...hopefully they are not display models...buwaahahahahah  Better not be since they can be traced to you!!


you rang? if the tweet is a cal25 and is the best sounding compact dome npdang's heard i'm gonna be really pissed.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> Just catchin up on the e-drama. Hey, got some Cal 25 silky's coming my way (a la Joehemi)...hopefully they are not display models...buwaahahahahah  Better not be since they can be traced to you!!



No, No sir, theyre the real deal.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

JoeHemi57 said:


> you rang? if the tweet is a cal25 and is the best sounding compact dome npdang's heard i'm gonna be really pissed.



I bet ya would, although in respect to that IF it was a CAL25 I think throwing it in a chamber would change a bit of the tonal characteristics of it.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

6spdcoupe said:


> No, No sir, theyre the real deal.


Horaay for me! BTW nice work so far...27 posts in one thread, not too shappy...noob


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

lol it wasnt my intention to be this way tho...


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## camflan (Jun 18, 2006)

6spdcoupe said:


> lol it wasnt my intention to be this way tho...



you get my PM?


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## Thoraudio (Aug 9, 2005)

Derek said:


> fred i thought you worked for ID...what happened?


that ship sailed a long time ago... there were some veiled references on Elite... back in 2004 I believe.

Found the link 


I'm too good to you... you know that right?


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## Thoraudio (Aug 9, 2005)




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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Just to clarify on this a bit more research brought me to the fact that The tweet pictured is a Pre production CAL28 Platinum which was used as cosmetic samples to show among the customers.

The number stamped on the back of the one pictured "4099" is a production date... Week 40, year 1999.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2006)

I just want to add my 2 cents, to defend npdang's testing methodology ... surprisingly called into question in this thread.

The man has access to some VERY state-of-the-art equipment, that is not exactly commonplace among even some of the more "popular" testing houses. And, more importantly, he has the ability to _understand_ those tests, and _correlate_ to what is heard. The fact that he may operate out of his "garage", instead of a more elaborate facility, is of little consequence compared to these factors. An anechoic chamber would be a nice addition, sure ... but you don't exactly need a clean room environment to test a loudspeaker.

It was not that long ago that one of the most popular car audio mags gained access to a Klippel. But I would trust npdang's reviews over anything published there, since there's no advertisement dollars to protect on this site. DIYMA may not be "recognized" by all of the mainstream manufacturers (although, as already mentioned, Dayton seems to hold this community in pretty high regard) ... but a couple reasons immediately come to mind : DIYMA is still relatively new, and reviews can't be "bought" with advertising dollars.

Bottom line is that bad reviews ruffle feathers, always have ... always will.


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## dual700 (Mar 6, 2005)

Thoraudio said:


>


LMAO!

Wes, you guuuud


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## cdj (Mar 7, 2005)

I e-mailed Rainbow Tech Support, this is their response:

The pictures in the link are showing a non official preliminary version of the CAL28 Platinum. Those tweeters have been handed out to certain distributors in the world as more or less cosmetic samples to show to their customers. Those samples have NOT the technical specifications nor the sound performance of the today's CAL 28 Platinum tweeters.

We have been approached by this question two days ago already and it seems that somebody made a good deal in selling those preliminary Platinum compo sets in the US.


Kind Regards,
Rainbow Service Team


RAC GmbH & Co. KG
P.O. Box 1225
74899 Bad Rappenau, Germany
Tel. +49-7066-90060, Fax +49-7066-900650


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

werewolf said:


> I just want to add my 2 cents, to defend npdang's testing methodology ... surprisingly called into question in this thread.
> 
> The man has access to some VERY state-of-the-art equipment, that is not exactly commonplace among even some of the more "popular" testing houses. And, more importantly, he has the ability to _understand_ those tests, and _correlate_ to what is heard. The fact that he may operate out of his "garage", instead of a more elaborate facility, is of little consequence compared to these factors. An anechoic chamber would be a nice addition, sure ... but you don't exactly need a clean room environment to test a loudspeaker.
> 
> ...


Werewolf - With the state of the art equipment and experience aside, do still think the placebo effect has anything to do with this? Just curious on your thoughts.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

cdj said:


> I e-mailed Rainbow Tech Support, this is their response:
> 
> The pictures in the link are showing a non official preliminary version of the CAL28 Platinum. Those tweeters have been handed out to certain distributors in the world as more or less cosmetic samples to show to their customers. Those samples have NOT the technical specifications nor the sound performance of the today's CAL 28 Platinum tweeters.
> 
> ...





6spdcoupe said:


> Just to clarify on this a bit more research brought me to the fact that The tweet pictured is a Pre production CAL28 Platinum which was used as cosmetic samples to show among the customers.
> 
> The number stamped on the back of the one pictured "4099" is a production date... Week 40, year 1999.




It is now indeed clarified. So the review and findings of Npdang of this tweeter are based on a 1999 proto/pre-production unit of a tweeter that was not even released or produced for consumer sale until 2002-2003 timeframe. The production unit proves to be different and per spec from the pics shown by 6spdcoupe.

All else is void.


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## Vestax (Aug 16, 2005)

So let's recap.

1. Concern on construction of expensive tweeter
2. Consensus: It still sounds good

7 Months later....

3. Revival of thread with a WTF!?
4. Fred Lynch cameo
5. Discovery
6. Hugs and Kisses later, it still sounds good.

Yup good ol' e-drama.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Vestax said:


> So let's recap.
> 
> 1. Concern on construction of expensive tweeter
> 2. Consensus: It still sounds good
> ...


comedy.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

werewolf said:


> I just want to add my 2 cents, to defend npdang's testing methodology ... surprisingly called into question in this thread.
> 
> The man has access to some VERY state-of-the-art equipment, that is not exactly commonplace among even some of the more "popular" testing houses. And, more importantly, he has the ability to _understand_ those tests, and _correlate_ to what is heard. The fact that he may operate out of his "garage", instead of a more elaborate facility, is of little consequence compared to these factors. An anechoic chamber would be a nice addition, sure ... but you don't exactly need a clean room environment to test a loudspeaker.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more Jeff.

Npdang, I thank you for taking your time and effort to give us such reviews AND teach us how to understand more about our hobby. 

Leo


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Vestax said:


> So let's recap.
> 
> 1. Concern on construction of expensive tweeter
> 2. Consensus: It still sounds good
> ...


1. Validated concern
2. Just imagine how the actual production one 'could' sound

Your already in August?

3.Thread started with a "WTF?!" hasnt been changed.
4. No comment 
5. Clarification.
6. Lots of love.

Doesnt everyone appreciate a bit of drama from time to time?


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## Derek (Jun 4, 2005)

Thoraudio said:


> that ship sailed a long time ago... there were some veiled references on Elite... back in 2004 I believe.
> 
> Found the link
> 
> ...



you know how well i keep up on that ****. but i do appreciate _everything_ you do for me 


last thing i was heard was ID was tired of his ****. but that was from "you know who."


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## rbenz27 (Mar 9, 2006)

All good..

I appreciate seeing the new pics of the rear chamber. Most would've not known about it if they weren't posted so its good to see that the build quality is there. But some sh*t that went down were very surprising and totally uncalled for.


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

6spdcoupe said:


> 1. Validated concern
> 2. Just imagine how the actual production one 'could' sound
> 
> Your already in August?
> ...


Post whore


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

You still wub me tho


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## squeak9798 (Apr 20, 2005)

I'll wub you more if you have good news for me early next week


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## iyamwutiam (Nov 20, 2006)

werewolf said:


> I just want to add my 2 cents, to defend npdang's testing methodology ... surprisingly called into question in this thread.
> 
> The man has access to some VERY state-of-the-art equipment, that is not exactly commonplace among even some of the more "popular" testing houses. And, more importantly, he has the ability to _understand_ those tests, and _correlate_ to what is heard. The fact that he may operate out of his "garage", instead of a more elaborate facility, is of little consequence compared to these factors. An anechoic chamber would be a nice addition, sure ... but you don't exactly need a clean room environment to test a loudspeaker.
> 
> ...


Like the QSD 4" were cheap and dirty?!?!/ You yourself HAD to post a retort to that obviously BIASED comment. Before I go any further i want to say I do respect the effort NPDANG puts in and the fact that in 'some' way he is doing a lot of people a service. "Cheap and DIRTY!!- I ask you does this make NO ONE pause and reflect whether or not this comment is indeed objective?

That being said - there are many discrepancies also - given that as you said the equipment is extremely expensive therefore - the methodology should follow some standards of rigor and objectivity. I personally have a set of Lotus reference speakers and fine them to be VERY very good- however - I do not find almost everything made by Seas to be the best value/product out there. I do not have the experience/expertise of NPDANG but Zaph - who is also well regarded has found similar issues with some of these drivers- there are others as well- but mainly in the home audio arena- no one has done this for car audio as intensively as NPDANG- to which he must be credited for recognizing an acute need and doing an admirable job of filling it.

Although I applaud your support of Npdang - viral marketing (a la Lonely girl 15) is a part of today's industry- and one must be cautious if not skeptical when seeing the unending parade of glowing reviews for a SINGLE manufacturer - especially when there is some validity to objections being made by other forum members that possess or are representatives for a well known -internationally established high quality product line.

The question of intentional misrepresentation or unintentional misrepresentation is not one that will be resolved with out rancor - of which I wish to have no part of surely. However- I do feel that while many individuals have personal favorites (example Kevin 7909 with QSDs)- the fundamental question being asked is is testing a disguised platform for marketing - and if so - then -no problem - we as 'people' can then make the choices - as we would on any other marketed product. BUT- if it is presented as objective inquiry with all sorts of graphs - then the graphs and methodology are called into question (just like any other objective representation) -as well as the conclusions drawn.


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## kskywr (Oct 2, 2006)

Wow, another thread back from the dead. Too bad there will be no rebuttal from werewolf.


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## CBRworm (Sep 1, 2006)

And the WTF seems even more appropriate this year. . . .


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey, no offense taken. All I'm doing is presenting data, it's up to you to interpret it for yourself. If you want to talk methodology, I'm more than open to discussion... and I'm the first to admit that I don't have the most rigorous and controlled test environment. I don't calibrate my mic everyday, I don't have an anechoic chamber, and I don't have access to 100 samples to test from. But I could also care less whether any driver tests well or not.

But the one thing that never gets answered is this... where is the refuting data??? How can anyone call into question a set of data when they have NONE to present themself? And to top it all off... no one has been able to answer the question of even if we don't have absolute numbers, what about the value of a relative comparison conducted in the same manner in the same environment?

I always pick my drivers by measured data, but it's my ears that tell me whether or not I'm going to keep them.

And funny, I measured distortion performance from both the chambered and non-chambered plat tweets... and IIRC, the chamber only offers a slight benefit below 2.5khz, but improved low end sensitivity.


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