# Good remasters vs Bad remasters



## teh_squirrel (Jan 16, 2020)

So we've all experienced it -- you get a great remaster and everything is clear and defined, or WORSE you notice that your favorite bass line has been changed! Now that I have a reasonable tune I've begun collecting more and more high resolution music and re-ripping older discs for high quality (fre:ac paranoia mode with accurip checks) I notice a big difference between tracks.

*Great remasters*
Pink Floyd - any of the newer remasters seem excellent, I might pick up the 2001 disc to compare, but the songs are clearer and very dynamic, vocals are great and percussion crisp

*Good*
Tom Petty - The new greatest hits remaster is decent, the vocals are clearer and some sounds sound cleaner but it didn't come out as good as the Pink Floyd

*Tossup/Sidegrade*
No Doubt - Vocals are clearer but the kick drums aren't as strong and the bass lines are slightly weaker, tracks do better at higher volume but sound weaker at lower volume
Wu-Tang - Legend Greatest Hits - These are much cleaner but the bass also suffers and it changes the feel of the songs, I have an old 36 chambers on the way so I can do an a/b compare

*Bad*
Ice Cube - Ghetto Bird - I love this bass line and song but the remastered version tightened up the bass line and I have to crank the knob to get it to sound close to before


Please post your experience with remastered songs and albums!


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

To me the quality of the remaster is proportional to the reason it was remastered. If the point was simply to get a different bit depth or sample rate or because that album became popular due to social media or pop culture and they wanted to rerelease... then they flop.

If they go back to the analog or in some recent cases the 32 bit digital master and truly "remaster" the mix down on proper equipment then the result is usually an improvement (especially if your previous reference was vinyl or cassette). The only exception are those that attempt to "remix" the original multi-track recordings because they thought the original mix was lacking or slighted one particular artist in the band. Those are almost always a total disaster.

The Pink Floyd remasters are a great example - some of those original releases were sloppy and feel like they were done by someone who might have been tripping at the time. I've yet to hear any of their remasters that were worse than the original...

*GREAT - tighter, cleaner, more dynamic, make you feel like you are 'there'*
Kenny Burrell "Midnight Blue" (2012 Remaster) 24/192
Fourplay "The Best of Fourplay" (2020 Remaster) 24/192
Kenny Burrell "Bluesy Burrell" (2014 Rudy Van Gelder Remaster) 24/44.1
- anything that ^ Gelder has done - long list... John Coltrane / Sonny Collins / Thelonius Monk
Eagles (2013 Remaster) 24/192
Metallica "Black Album" 24/192 (Remastered Expanded Edition)
Fleetwood Mac (2017 Remaster) 24/96
Jethro Tull "Under Wraps" (2005 Remaster) 16/44.1
Genesis "Duke" (2007 Remaster) 16/44.1
Miles Davis "Star People" (2022 Remaster) 24/192
Fleetwood Mac "Tusk" (2015 Remaster) 24/96
Bob James / David Sanborn "Double Vision" (2019 Remaster) 24/192

*TOSSUP *[some of these make me wonder if the problem might be the original master]
Bill Evans "Top of the Gate" (2020 Remaster) DXD 24/352.8
- this was a huge disappointment - noisy, hissy and almost seems to have emphasized the analog noise
Metallica "Master of Puppets" (2017 Remaster) 24/96
Black Sabbath "Master of Reality" (2014 Remaster) 24/96
Dio "Master of the Moon" (2019 Remaster) 16/44.1
David Bowie "Heroes" (2017 Remaster) 24/192
Whitesnake (2018 Remaster) 24/96
A-Ha "Hunting High and Low" (2015 Remaster) 24/192

*BAD - flat, lifeless, something odd that sticks out or a remix that ruins the original*
Mark Knopfler "Cannibals" (2021 Remaster) 16/44.1
Miles Davis "Decoy" (2022 Remaster) 24/192
Deep Purple "Machine Head" (2016 Remaster) 16/44.1
The Dave Clark Five "All the Hits" (2019 Remaster) 24/96
CSN&Y "Deja Vu" (2021 Remaster) 24/192
Kate Bush "The Dreaming" (2018 Remaster) 24/44.1
Alice in Chains "Dirt" (2022 Remaster) 24/44.1
Journey "Escape" (2022 Remaster) 24/192


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## teh_squirrel (Jan 16, 2020)

I love your take and plan to check out some of the good remasters you listed. A few days ago I listened to some songs off the original black album and the quality was absolutely terrible. That will be on my list after another Pink Floyd. 

Another good one I enjoyed recently was the Nirvana Nevermind, I know that one is slightly controversial but it sounds really clean to me. It means smells like teen spirit can be played at a much higher volume and still be squeaky clean


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

teh_squirrel said:


> I love your take and plan to check out some of the good remasters you listed. A few days ago I listened to some songs off the original black album and the quality was absolutely terrible. That will be on my list after another Pink Floyd.
> 
> Another good one I enjoyed recently was the Nirvana Nevermind, I know that one is slightly controversial but it sounds really clean to me. It means smells like teen spirit can be played at a much higher volume and still be squeaky clean


Be careful which remaster you get of the Black Album - there are multiple ones.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

daloudin said:


> To me the quality of the remaster is proportional to the reason it was remastered. If the point was simply to get a different bit depth or sample rate or because that album became popular due to social media or pop culture and they wanted to rerelease... then they flop.
> 
> If they go back to the analog or in some recent cases the 32 bit digital master and truly "remaster" the mix down on proper equipment then the result is usually an improvement (especially if your previous reference was vinyl or cassette). The only exception are those that attempt to "remix" the original multi-track recordings because they thought the original mix was lacking or slighted one particular artist in the band. Those are almost always a total disaster.
> 
> ...


Nice to see some love for Duke… it has always been one of my favorite releases!


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## teh_squirrel (Jan 16, 2020)

daloudin said:


> Be careful which remaster you get of the Black Album - there are multiple ones.


That saved me for sure, I see hdtracks has the good one but 52$, I see it is a huge 3 cd set, though. It seems like it might be worth it if the quality is there


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

teh_squirrel said:


> That saved me for sure, I see hdtracks has the good one but 52$, I see it is a huge 3 cd set, though. It seems like it might be worth it if the quality is there


If you have the equipment to fully utilize the 24 bit dynamic range it is (IMO)... Tracks like "The Unforgiven" are a revelation on a good system. Truly goose bump inducing... and if you get the DVD with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra mix - that's a whole 'nother level!


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## MythosDreamLab (Nov 28, 2020)

I have a better stereo in my vehicle than I do at home and I'm able to do more critical listening there, than on my 5-Channel Home Theater (Yamaha AVR & NHT's & a Velodyne).

The new Remix of Pink Floyd "Animals: sounds fantastic, I also have an older remastered CD and it blows it away for clarity and low-end bass.

I recently bought the first two Ozric Tenaicles CD's (Erpland & Pungent Effigent) both of which were reastered/remixed earlier this year (2022) and they both also sound awesome, with lot's of clear low-end bass..

I also bought the (CD) first Mythos album, which was remastered within the last year and it is super clear too!

There is a 3-CD set of the first three Talk talk albums and they were remastered and sound phenomenal, super clear with bass that pops..!

Another all time fav is the 2003 remastered CD version of Simple Minds "New Gold Dream", same thing, killer bass lines..

The Led Zeppelin "Mothership" Best-of collection was also a great remaster, no sure if it is good or bad, but it sounds like Robert Plant is in the front seat singing to you...

If you are looking for Bass that rattles your fillings and wakes the neighbors, look no further than the remastered versions of the Cure's "Faith" and "17 Seconds"..

Well, that's about it for now...


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## teh_squirrel (Jan 16, 2020)

So the Pink Floyd Animals is excellent, there are a few spots where you can tell it was a tougher master but it is very dynamic.

I tried the Led Zeppelin mothership and thought like you said they focused a lot on Robert Plant, but there are mixed in few times where a mic is queued early (and produced a little static) or you can tell some instruments weren't as well recorded. Some of the songs didn't seem very dynamic, but it can be hard to tell. The grungier guitars sounded nicer and the slower songs seemed clearer (stairway to heaven and all my love) but percussion is pretty mixed. Kashmir was disappointing, but some of the drum pieces sounded more full, maybe it was a master thing. I haven't compared all of it yet, but I just got for like 20 cents an older Zep set to check it to. 

The 24/192 Black album by Metallica was excellent, but like mothership there are some odd spots with poorly mic'd instruments or areas where you could tell they combined channels/inputs (or didn't pay attention when remastering). Enter Sandman breaks up a little in a few spots; Sad But True is very excellent and sounds much more dynamic. Two of the songs itunes wouldn't copy to my iphone 8, I think the files are too big for it, but of course apple error messages treat you like a toddler and file system differences or limitations are not clearly posted...


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## daloudin (Nov 2, 2020)

teh_squirrel said:


> So the Pink Floyd Animals is excellent, there are a few spots where you can tell it was a tougher master but it is very dynamic.
> 
> I tried the Led Zeppelin mothership and thought like you said they focused a lot on Robert Plant, but there are mixed in few times where a mic is queued early (and produced a little static) or you can tell some instruments weren't as well recorded. Some of the songs didn't seem very dynamic, but it can be hard to tell. The grungier guitars sounded nicer and the slower songs seemed clearer (stairway to heaven and all my love) but percussion is pretty mixed. Kashmir was disappointing, but some of the drum pieces sounded more full, maybe it was a master thing. I haven't compared all of it yet, but I just got for like 20 cents an older Zep set to check it to.
> 
> The 24/192 Black album by Metallica was excellent, but like mothership there are some odd spots with poorly mic'd instruments or areas where you could tell they combined channels/inputs (or didn't pay attention when remastering). Enter Sandman breaks up a little in a few spots; Sad But True is very excellent and sounds much more dynamic. Two of the songs itunes wouldn't copy to my iphone 8, I think the files are too big for it, but of course apple error messages treat you like a toddler and file system differences or limitations are not clearly posted...


Pink Floyd albums all sound that way to me... as if someone was a little too toasty during the actual recording session but that's kind of par for the course for them at this point in my life. Sobriety can be very revealing... IME.

I've yet to find any Zep recordings that can even come close to the live experience (but then most don't and like sobriety, nostalgia can be an evil mistress at times - both will try to sabotage your experience) and like you said most of the remasters all seem to focus on one artist, whether that's Plant or Page (haven't found one yet that focused on Bonham though) and invariably when you do find one version that's been mastered clearly it reveals problems with the source material and it becomes a struggle to simply enjoy the experience versus trying to analyze why "that" sounded like "that"...

The 24/192 Black Album that's on my son's iTunes (I use Android and Amazon Music) is not remastered and appears to be a resample of the original retail version 16/44.1 CD but I didn't spend much time looking for it...


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## Stycker (Jan 31, 2018)

Whitesnake's Whitesnake 30th Aniversary Remaster is the worst. I was so looking forward to this. Downloaded from HD tracks but I can't remember the file size or format.


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