# Beginner install for S2000



## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

Hi all,

I've had several systems in the past but were all installed by pros. I now live in a place where there isn't a single audio shop and my S2000 has an awful setup. The original deck was replaced by a truly cheap pioneer deck with an acoustic sound setting as a highlight. The speakers are OEM as far as I can tell. 

Seeing that I've never attempted an install before, I don't want to bite off more than I can chew. So I'm going for a head unit, 2 way component speakers, amp(s), single 10" subwoofer. 

My question is regarding the amp and the sub. Can I get away with a 4 channel amp, just bridge 2 channels to power the sub? Should I get a DSP amp? How would tuning work when all you have is your ears? 

Components I have in mind include Audio Frog GB60 and JL 10w6. 

Sorry for sounding like a complete dunce. If anyone who's been in my shoes before can give me pointers I'd much appreciate it.


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## GoldRiver (Mar 16, 2020)

Get a 4 channel amp. 








Sony XM-GS4 | 700 Watt Hi-res 4-Channel Amplifier


Sony XM-GS4 Hi-Res Amplifier • 700W Max Hi-Resolution Audio Compatible 4-Channel Amplifier • 150 watts x 4 chan. @ 4ohms • 175 watts x 4 chan. @ 2 Ohms • CEA-2006 Compliant Amplifier • Ultra-wide frequency range that extends up to 100 kHz • Engineered for minimal noise and maximum...




www.sonicelectronix.com




And a class D amp for the subs.
Then a Dayton 408 DSP
This Mic








Home


miniDSP UMIK-1 Omni-directional USB Measurement Calibrated MicrophoneThe UMIK-1 is an Omni-directional USB measurement microphone providing plug-and-play acoustic measurement. From speaker and room acoustic measurement to recording, this microphone provides low noise and accurate results you can...




www.parts-express.com




Damplifier pro sound deadening.
Do the inside door skins, floor and trunk.
You can also use foam like vibro 6mm on the door panel and door frame that it mounts to.
You run your source to the dayton, then to the amps, then to the speakers.
Tune it using REW and the mic and set your time delays.
It is fun, and you can do it yourself but its a lot of work.
It will give great sound for the money.
Tuning and sound deadening are more important at this point than speakers and amps. What good is a high end amp or speaker if the system is not tuned and you have rattles and road noise?


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

GoldRiver said:


> Get a 4 channel amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Drats I was hoping to not have to deal with another amp lol. Was thinking the 2 spare channels from the 4 channel amp would power the sub. My S2000 doesn't have rear speakers.


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## GoldRiver (Mar 16, 2020)

If you dont run a separate channel to each speaker, you cannot tune each channel separately. A 5 channel amp would work. Depends on how much you like bass.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Pfilg said:


> Drats I was hoping to not have to deal with another amp lol. Was thinking the 2 spare channels from the 4 channel amp would power the sub. My S2000 doesn't have rear speakers.


Don't run 2 amps. If anything just run a 5 channel. But, if you intend to keep the install simple with passive crossovers then yes you can run a 4 channel and bridge two channels to a sub. 

What is your budget? How much weight are you willing to sacrifice, and what are your ultimate expectations? Loud and clear music is much easier than also getting perfect staging and balance. Do you have a hardtop, how much noise do you have to compete with?


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## blammo585 (Feb 1, 2020)

It depends on how serious of a system you want. In the past I've ran a 4 channel amp with the rear channel bridged for a sub. Most 4 channel amps I look at now don't have that much power bridged...unless you really go up in price. Cost-wise, it's probably cheaper to get a 2 channel amp for the fronts and a mono amp for the sub. I don't worry about my rear speakers. I just always run the rears off of the head unit. If you run the right wire, it's not that much trouble to hook up two amps than it is to do one 4 channel.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

I did a simple 2 way plus sub install in an S2000 several years ago for my dad. You can find the build thread in the Build Logs section 

If you are using passive crossovers, then yes you can use a simple 4 channel amplifier and use 2 channels for the components and 2 channels bridged for the sub. Just keep in mind that bridged channels of (most) amps are only stable to 4 ohms or higher. So you need a sub with a single 4ohm voice coil, or dual 2 ohm coils wired in series to 4 ohms. 
Cheers,

-Steve


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

Alright so my S2000 does indeed have a hardtop. I'm going for a clean sounding system, I'll only be getting front imaging so there's only so far you can go with that. 

Components so far:

GB60 + GB15. (Ordering)
JL 10w6 (purchased, box being made now)
Zapco ST4X 4 channel amp (yet to purchase)
Zapco ST1000XMII 1 channel class D amp (yet to buy)

I think I'm gonna just have to go for 2 amps as I'm not worried about weight just didn't want to have to do too much as I don't actually know what I'm doing. 

Any thoughts to this build? Will it all work well? 

Cheers


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm a Zapco guy and on the competition team. In your case, I wouldn't choose the amps you selected. To keep things really simple, I would recommend something like the Kicker IQ1000.5 while you can still get it. $750 is a good deal for what you get, considering the built in DSP. 

If you like the Zapco ST line, get the ST-4X DSP instead of the standard 4X. It also has built in DSP with two channels of processed output you can use for the mono amp. But, I still think an "all in one" 5 channel DSP amp like the Kicker is a better option. There are other options, but the price point is going to be over $1k.


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## 01LSi (Jul 27, 2012)

i don't really know anything about / have experience with the a-z range of the zapco lineup _but_ the footprint of those amps seems pretty small which is a good thing to keep in mind if you're concerned about maximizing the space.


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

Noted, I'll now reconsider my amps!


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## gw2405 (Jul 4, 2017)

Fellow s2k diyma member 

I also went with a 5ch amp, arc 1100.5
It's small, performs incredibly well, and hasn't had an issue with heat at all.

Curious to see your w6 and box install

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## F150Man (Apr 14, 2017)

You do not need to control each driver with a DSP. If you go with Audiofrog, the passive crossovers you get with a component set are great. You can still do everything a DSP can do into the crossovers. Lots of pro installers use passive crossovers and DSP's. Actually, you don't need a DSP to have great sound quality. A 3 way system in that very small car can do SQ very well with sound deadening, the right headunit, good wiring, a 4 channel amp, a component set, and a single subwoofer.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Well...



F150Man said:


> You do not need to control each driver with a DSP.


True. There are many instances where passive crossovers in combination with DSP will net great results.



F150Man said:


> If you go with Audiofrog, the passive crossovers you get with a component set are great.


The Audiofrog passive crossovers are probably some of the nicest you can get in car audio. However, the only component set that come with the passive crossovers included are the G60S. All other products (GS and GB line) are ala carte with the passive crossovers purchased separately. In the case of a GB 2 way component set (which the OP mentioned), you're talking about a $450 add. 

If you're already planning to use a DSP, $450 for a passive crossover is a pretty big pill to swallow. Even if you aren't already planning to use a DSP $450 can get you into a very capable JL TwK and there are others that are even more reasonably priced.



F150Man said:


> You can still do everything a DSP can do into the crossovers.


Yes, EQ, level, time alignment and phase adjustments can still be made. You really won't be adding any additional crossovers in the middle of the passband shared by the two drivers, and they will both be affected by any changes made in the DSP.



F150Man said:


> Lots of pro installers use passive crossovers and DSP's.


Some yes. And lots of pro installers also install DSPs and do nothing more than set crossovers with them. Sometimes they don't even get that much right. This isn't a knock on professional installers. Just relaying commentary/complaints I have seen and heard from other industry professionals when they have to deal with other people's work.



F150Man said:


> Actually, you don't need a DSP to have great sound quality.


This I would argue. The goal with "sound quality" is faithful reproduction of the source. Part of that reproduction is staging. Without some level of DSP, you are not going to get staging OR tonality right. This is especially true if you're doing a "simple" install with stock driver locations. You have to be able to correct for the environment. Can you get a car to have decent staging and sound really good with minimal processing? Absolutley.



F150Man said:


> A 3 way system in that very small car can do SQ very well with sound deadening,* the right headuni*t, good wiring, a 4 channel amp, a component set, and a single subwoofer.


I've put the key to your last statement in bold font. And the reason that head unit is the key is because the processing power aka DSP in the head unit can make all the difference in the world. I've done a lot of research recently on head unit DSP because I am helping a guy with a very simple install. The differences in tuning capability among the "big four (Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, Sony) is actually quite surprising. For a passive install, Kenwood would be my first choice followed by Alpine. Pioneer is a distant third (save for the DEH-80PRS) and Sony isn't even in the running.


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## gw2405 (Jul 4, 2017)

This car is really not suited for "amazing" sq. The mids sit low, basically firing into your calves. What works great when using a mic+Rew to tune with the driver is damn near negated the second a passenger sits in their seat...:/ The trunk is also separated from the cabin with a spare tire and gas tank
Not saying that it's impossible though. I did the best I could within a reasonable budget to make sure I had some tunes around town with the top up, but it got loud enough with the top down.

80prs
sb17
Tang band 25-2176s
Arc 1100.5
Sd3-10
CLD everywhere

Amp sits in the tool well and sub box neatly fits in that cubby, can also be removed on long road trips

Mind the 2nd pic, old setup before cleaning up the wires
















Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## gw2405 (Jul 4, 2017)

Edit- double post


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I really value and appreciate it. @gw205 thanks for sharing pics! Also, I took your amp recommendation. My build now looks like this:
1) Audiofrog GB60, GB15, GB615c components.
2) Arc Audio XDi 1100.5 Amp
3) JL 10w6 with custom box

Now I'm in the market for a solid head unit. I would prefer to run Tidal from my phone, but Bluetooth would just negate the quality difference I'd have from running Spotify.....ultimately rendering my system mediocre. Is there a solution to this? Is the 3.5mm Jack or USB type C feed good enough quality? I know some head units will take USB drives and play FLAC audio, I'm using that as a last resort as it's not as practical as plugging in my phone. 

Currently I'm looking into the Alpine CDE 163EBT. Will this be good?

Thanks guys


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## gw2405 (Jul 4, 2017)

I was also looking at that alpine unit but chose the 80prs over it. 
Having a proper EQ with l&r adjustment was the seller for me. It's a tried&true HU on here. They're around $250 on eBay all day. 
I have a large SD card in there with all high bitrate mp3s and it sounds terrific. But yes, it's a noticeable difference between that and Bluetooth/Spotify quality 

Make sure to the get the modifry chip for whatever HU you decide on, so you can still retain the stereo controls on the left side of the dash

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

Ok so it looks like the 80PRS has no Android support and doesn't play FLAC files. Otherwise it's crazy good tech.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Pfilg said:


> Ok so it looks like the 80PRS has no Android support and doesn't play FLAC files. Otherwise it's crazy good tech.


The FLAC issue isn't a problem, there are plenty of good file formats, and storage is cheap. The Android may be a deal breaker for you.

Are you stuck with a single din head unit? There are some great double dins with strong enough DSPs so that you don't have to buy the AF crossovers. You can run active with many Kenwood and Pioneer head double dins, have Android Auto, and FLAC. The DSP is a tad limited, but it'll do everything the AF crossovers do and more.


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## gw2405 (Jul 4, 2017)

gijoe said:


> The FLAC issue isn't a problem, there are plenty of good file formats, and storage is cheap. The Android may be a deal breaker for you.
> 
> Are you stuck with a single din head unit? There are some great double dins with strong enough DSPs so that you don't have to buy the AF crossovers. You can run active with many Kenwood and Pioneer head double dins, have Android Auto, and FLAC. The DSP is a tad limited, but it'll do everything the AF crossovers do and more.


Single din only, unless you want to cut a massive hole in your dash

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## gw2405 (Jul 4, 2017)

Pfilg said:


> Ok so it looks like the 80PRS has no Android support and doesn't play FLAC files. Otherwise it's crazy good tech.


Correct, can't play music via USB connection but via BT you can do everything including calls.
USB will charge the phone though

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

Yes unfortunately the S2000 has just a single din slot. The AF crossovers have been purchased already.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Pfilg said:


> Yes unfortunately the S2000 has just a single din slot. The AF crossovers have been purchased already.


There are several new head units with a single din mounting, but with a double din screen. I don't know if that will work.


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

The S2000 has a lid where the stereo area is, it sits right behind the shift knob well below peripheral vision. I'll need to keep the stereo interface simple for practical reasons.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Pfilg said:


> The S2000 has a lid where the stereo area is, it sits right behind the shift knob well below peripheral vision. I'll need to keep the stereo interface simple for practical reasons.


Ok. How important is Android capatiblity, do you want to be able to plug in with USB, or stream via bluetooth? 

Modern bluetooth is pretty good for sound quality. The Pioneer 80PRS is great, but it doesn't support android through USB, and you are using passive crossovers, so it's not the right stereo for your needs. Go to Crutchfield and filter based on your needs, and check out the options. One of these would work well:









Sony MEX-GS820BT


CD receiver




www.crutchfield.com













Pioneer DEH-X8800BHS


CD receiver




www.crutchfield.com













Alpine CDE-175BT


CD receiver




www.crutchfield.com


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

@gijoe thanks for taking the time to recommend HUs. Your a gentleman and a scholar.

Android compatability is important because I only have Android devices, I'm just not cool enough for Apple


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## sobe_death (Jul 31, 2008)

I have an S2000 and was looking into upgrading to Android Auto as well. As far as I know, the Sony XAV-AX100, AX210, AX5000, and AX7000 will fit in the single DIN slot in the S2000, but you do have to remove the radio door (and a slight amount of cutting there as well). 

There is a solution being worked on in the aftermarket to make a LHD navigation bezel to fit an 8" Android tablet, but it's still in design phase and will definitely require cutting the dash.


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

I'm really not confident enough to do all that cutting myself as I don't have a background in anything that requires handy work lol. I think I may have to get a portable hi res for my source solution instead of insisting on my phone. I could even possibly get better audio out of it.


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

I've now received the Arc 1100.5 amp and the AF components with crossover. So I have 4 channels for the mid range and tweeters and 1 sub channel. 

The 4 channels run at 4ohms and the components are 4ohms. How do I use the crossover if I'm wanting to match impendence? I've read that if I bridge the amp into the crossover, I'll have 2ohms, this will mean I will have to be wary of the volume limit. If I choose not to bridge and run 4ohms to the crossover, I'll only be using 2 channels and thus have 2 wasted channels. Option 3 would be to go active and just stomach the fact that I bought crossovers that won't be used. 

What should I do?


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## 01LSi (Jul 27, 2012)

If you are still planning to use the GB615C crossover the technical details tab states it equals 4 Ohms. It looks like when you connect the GB60 and GB15 to this crossover (this crossover was meant for those specific speakers), that the amplifier will see the crossover with those speakers attached and it will = 4 Ohms total for both midbass and tweeter.

The AF technical details tab also states it recommends an amplifier powering these speakers with a 20 Watt - 100 Watt RMS output. That means you don't need to bridge the channels on the XDi. Maybe someone here will recommend you do bridge the connection from their own personal experience on these speakers. But it wouldn't be _necessary_ because you are going to get 150 Watts to each channel (Page 9).

I wouldn't view it as a waste if you don't bridge. Maybe one day you'll want to go fully active to try and see what that's about. This amplifier will allow you to test and grow into that depending on your interest level. Also wouldn't view it as a waste because you don't want to deal with not having enough amplifier power either.

Aside from setting simple basic digital crossovers in the stereo (which the physical crossovers you bought will dummy proof for you so you don't make a major mistake) - Going active and tuning is a very lengthy tedious frustration and education. You'll have to get a measurement mic and take on a whole other new deal of learning (like in the audiofrog tuning guide). Unless you're bored, feeling adventurous and excited about the idea, you can always ease into that in the future.

For now you can just get up and running by simply installing what you have and see if that is enough. I didn't see which stereo you picked or if you also bought a dedicated DSP.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Pfilg said:


> I've now received the Arc 1100.5 amp and the AF components with crossover. So I have 4 channels for the mid range and tweeters and 1 sub channel.
> 
> The 4 channels run at 4ohms and the components are 4ohms. How do I use the crossover if I'm wanting to match impendence? I've read that if I bridge the amp into the crossover, I'll have 2ohms, this will mean I will have to be wary of the volume limit. If I choose not to bridge and run 4ohms to the crossover, I'll only be using 2 channels and thus have 2 wasted channels. Option 3 would be to go active and just stomach the fact that I bought crossovers that won't be used.
> 
> What should I do?


Did you decide on a head unit? Going active doesn't have to be as challenging as people think, it can be, but doesn't have to be. You did spend a decent amount on the crossovers, and they are pretty good crossovers, so I'd run with them for now, and if you every decide to go active it won't be a big deal. 

I would recommend bridging the amp, but honestly, it won't make much difference if you do, or don't. I would because the extra power is a good thing, and you have the channels, so why not?


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## 01LSi (Jul 27, 2012)

This also seems like a good 4 page thread about the same speakers and if they should get 200 Watts

*edit* or that thread may potentially confuse the matter further lol. Long story short, 150 watt RMS to each crossover is a great start, you will be meeting the recommended 100W RMS with a little extra. 

I have always matched the amp wattage to be a little higher than the max wattage recommendation of the speakers. But I've never experimented matching the speakers with double or more the wattage by bridging the amp channels (because I've never needed to) but I've read plenty folks have. 

Now I'm conjecturing ...... but wouldn't getting too much power on reserve *potentially* introduce a more noticeable noise floor, especially in the tweeters with hiss?


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

Due to what's going on around the world, I can't get a hold of anyone at audio shop on my side of the world (5 hour flight). I've been looking at the specs of this Alpine cde-163bt unit. I think this may be the one. There's not a whole lot of selection due to FM tuner compatibility and my "local" shop's stock range. However, if there is a significantly better HU at a reasonable price, it may be worth my while to hunt it down. 

I've read through the manual for the ARC amp, it seems I can go to 3 channel mode and adjust for 4 Ohm load, so I guess problem solved. 

Next step is to decide on cables and soundproofing I suppose. 

I hope everyone is staying safe during these trying times.


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

I would recommend the pioneer DEH-80prs and going active.
I run the 80prs along with the gb60 and gb15 in my s2000 as well.
Here is the build log:









2004 Honda S2000 build


What’s up people? Just wanted to share my car on the forums as the audio build is in progress. 2004 Honda S2000 in Rio Yellow Pearl 52k Miles Car is pretty much stock, only little modifications are k&n intake, test pipe, swift spec r springs, and square tire setup with TRMotorsports C3 17x9...




www.diymobileaudio.com


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## Pfilg (Mar 12, 2020)

Hey P,

Nice car! I hope to have mine turn out like that too....but don't think it will be possible to mount my JL10W6 sub quite like that. Nice pods too, I think I may have to drill the door since I don't have a clue how to customize the pillar. 

Since I have the crossover already, I'm just gonna try it and if I don't like it, I can always just go active. Is the sound improved or is it about maximizing amp performance? 

That 80prs HU definitely looks like a quality unit. I'll have to find a dealer that stocks it first. 

Thanks for the reply!


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## pw91686 (Apr 1, 2015)

The improvement in sounds mostly comes from
Being able to digitally process each speaker.

There are some enclosures designed for the s2000 you can buy off ebay that do work well, I’ve used them in old builds. And if there is not enough depth just build you a baffle on top of it.


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