# 2016 Nissan 370Z Active SQ Build...



## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

I haven't been on here in a long time, but I'm back, 4 cars later...

I'm still planning the system out. Just installed a new Pioneer AVH-X491BHS. For now I'm just using the internal amp to power the stock speakers, though using the active crossover in it along with time alignment. A major improvement over the stock head unit... Obviously.

Since I'll be using stock speaker locations, I'll be using wideband 2.75" drivers in the dash, then either 6.5" or 8" drivers in the doors. And since they will be so far apart, I want to have the crossover point as low as possible as well as get as much midrange as possible up high, hence the wideband drivers in the dash.


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

Fellow G owner here. Not the same but close. I was eyeing that Pioneer myself just haven't settled on what model yet. It's a 13 band EQ right with Network mode? What mods are done to the Z?


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Swaglife81 said:


> Fellow G owner here. Not the same but close. I was eyeing that Pioneer myself just haven't settled on what model yet. It's a 13 band EQ right with Network mode? What mods are done to the Z?


Yup, 13 band EQ and Network mode. That's how I'm running it as I stated above.

Z mods... Z1 CAI, Motordyne test pipes, HKS exhaust, Ecutek tune, Ark springs, SPL suspension arms and bits.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Just ordered a couple more goodies tonight. A pair of Memphis Audio PRX27's and some Dynamat to do both doors. I've never done any dampening before on any of my past vehicles and systems, so this should be interesting. 

Oh, and just for fun. Album art via HD Radio.


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

SQ_Blaze said:


> Yup, 13 band EQ and Network mode. That's how I'm running it as I stated above.
> 
> Z mods... Z1 CAI, Motordyne test pipes, HKS exhaust, Ecutek tune, Ark springs, SPL suspension arms and bits.


I think you chose well with the ecutek. Seems a much better program than Uprev these days. Strong V6 car, love them coming from a Mustang platform. I asked about network mode because you stated you were running active in the OP. People run active setups without network also that's why I asked.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

A minor update after some thinking...

Tonight, I ordered a Hushmat door kit for "large" cars, which comes with four sheets of 11.75" squares of Hushmat, and two 7.75" squares of Wave Breaker.

I'll be using this kit for the doors, then use the Dynamat SuperLite that I ordered last night for the rear of the car, and maybe some for the backs of the door panels if there's any left.

Also bought a USB to 5 pin Mini adapter to connect the stock USB cable to the Pioneer.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Got a delivery today. The Memphis PRX27 drivers and Dynamat SuperLite Tri-Pak.

I do believe these are the tiniest speakers I have ever bought (excluding tweeters of course). They're supposed to be pretty decent considering. I'm sure they're a big improvement over the nasty stock 2" tweeters in the dash now. I guess I'll find out soon enough tomorrow.

One thing to note about these little guys... They have a nice textured powder coating on the entire basket. Seems that that powder coating damps the baskets some. Tapping the basket with my knife handle, the basket makes a nice muted "thunk" sound rather than a tinny kind of ringing sound. 

Sitting by an iPhone 6 Plus for size reference...


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

I just installed these little guys and after making some tweaks to the system... MAJOR IMPROVEMENT! And they'll only get better with a little break-in time and more tweaking. I actually plan on running the calibration mic this weekend and running the auto time alignment and auto tune, though I'm going to document my current "tuned by ear" settings, because it already sounds pretty darn good.

I have these crossed over at 1.25 kHz at 12 dB (was at 8 kHz with the stockers - yuck). I now have the door speakers crossed over at 1.25 kHz at 24 dB on the top end and still 40 Hz at 24 dB on the bottom end. I ran the system for a solid hour with all of the tweaking and listening. 

As for fitment, they fit perfectly though the mounting holes don't line up perfectly. Once you get one screw in, the other is slightly past, so you can't put that screw in. I'll do one of two things this weekend. Either leave them as is and put the two other screws in on the sides with small fender washers, OR I'll try seeing if the included panel clips and screws that came with the speakers works better with proper alignment.

Now a few pics...


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

To continue on with my one sided conversation... 

Added Dynamat in the trunk, HushMat on the doors, and Wave Breaker in the doors behind the speakers.


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## Mashburn94 (Apr 28, 2017)

Looks good! Ready to see some more of the install. Good luck


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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

I've installed several pairs of those Memphis 2.75 speakers. They are a huge improvement over the stock speakers these companies are using. I am impressed every time 

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

tnaudio said:


> I've installed several pairs of those Memphis 2.75 speakers. They are a huge improvement over the stock speakers these companies are using. I am impressed every time
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


The more tweaking I do on the settings, the more I like them. Definitely a great bang for the buck, and definitely better than stock.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Well I ended up pulling out the head unit once again, this time to install the e-brake bypass thingie and an AUX jack. Before buttoning everything up, I connected and fired up the Pioneer to see if the bypass worked, and it did/does. Plays DVD's and everything now. 

After that, I decided on a good spot to install the AUX jack, drilled a hole and mounted it. Then came the part of finally running the "Auto TA/EQ" function. For some odd reason, it had the output level of the door speakers way down at -16 and -17. All I could hear was the dash speakers. It also threw the crossover way up at 8 kHz and jacked the treble way up. Horrible! 

Then again, it might have something to do with the old TOTL Onkyo receiver calibration mic I'm currently using. My main concern is proper time alignment than anything else. I can do levels and EQ myself. 

Anyway...


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

I haven't been around Memphis products in a good while. Me and my buddies we're using them in the late 90s the first year or two the company name started. Some other name before that. One of our big local shops than was carrying their full line along with Soundstream while the other rival shop was carrying Fosgate, JL and MB Quart. Anyway Memphis was making good stuff even back than. At $35-$40 for those midranges is awesome. Did you put any sound deadening, foam on the door cards or inner skin?


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Swaglife81 said:


> Did you put any sound deadening, foam on the door cards or inner skin?


Refer to post #9 above.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

So these showed up today... And will be going in tomorrow.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

SQ_Blaze said:


>


PICKLE RIIIIICK!


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> PICKLE RIIIIICK!


??? 

Must have something to do with my girlfriend's phone.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

SQ_Blaze said:


> ???
> 
> Must have something to do with my girlfriend's phone.


Her rick and morty wall paper

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Oh...


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Never did get around to installing the speakers today, but did install one sheet each of HushMat on the door panels. Oh, and the amp showed up today. It looks nearly new!





































And that's a piece of fuzz on the top left of the image, not a scratch.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Since I can't do anything else at the moment, here's some "guts" shots of the Arc 1200.6 amp. It's amazing how small this little guy really is, especially considering the amount of power it produces. Not only is it built like a tank, it also uses quality Alps potentiometers throughout. 

I can't wait to get this gear up and running!






































Roku remote for size reference...


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

Very nice amp you got there. How much power does channel 5 and 6 put out bridged. I might have to go that route instead of the NVX jad 900 I originally planned


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Looks good, Blaze. You should have a rockin' system once you get all of that sweet goodness mounted in your Z.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Swaglife81 said:


> Very nice amp you got there. How much power does channel 5 and 6 put out bridged. I might have to go that route instead of the NVX jad 900 I originally planned


The 1200.6 is rated at 150w on channels 1 thru 4 @ 2 or 4 ohms or bridge those channels into 2 @ 4 ohms for 300w each. 

Channels 5 & 6 is rated at 150w each @ 4 ohms, 300w each @ 2 ohms, or bridged mono for 600w @ 4 ohms. It's a little powerhouse. 






bbfoto said:


> Looks good, Blaze. You should have a rockin' system once you get all of that sweet goodness mounted in your Z.


Thank you sir. They certainly are some decent parts this time around. Small, sweet and simple.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Just for the hell of it, I ran the RTA on my system as it sits, nothing more than the Pioneer head unit, Memphis 2.75" dash speakers and bone stock base 6.5" door speakers. 

I used my Dell laptop running Room EQ Wizard (REW) into the head unit via the new AUX input I installed in the dash cubby with an AudioQuest 1/8" cable, and the miniDSP UMIK-1 mic. 

This isn't a perfect session as it's about 210*F outside as well as nosy neighbors wondering around (stinkin' apartment complex). So I had the engine running, AC running and me sitting in the passenger seat. I tried keeping my legs and laptop out of the way of the passenger door speaker as much as possible. This means I was sitting Indian style in the seat (which was a bit uncomfortable) and the laptop folded in half on my stomach.

To overcome ambient noise of the engine and AC running, I ran the pink noise up around 90 dB. With the pink noise playing, I really couldn't hear the engine and definitely not the AC as I had it running on its lowest setting. Though from the looks of the measurements, the mic was still picking up engine/exhaust noise, so just ignore the measurements from about 50 Hz down. 

It's quite obvious in the graphs that I'm getting a fairly decent suck-out between 3 kHz and 6 kHz. 

Other than that, it sounds amazingly good! Doing nothing else other than tweaking the EQ for a little flatter response, it made a huge improvement! I'm very impressed in the sound stage, imaging and width as well as the overall sound, all of which improved with the tweaking. 

I know this sounds crazy, but I hope the Stereo Integrity setup sounds as good, only because I love all of the mids and vocals up on the dash. 

Anyway, a few pics...









The red line shows the initial curve before tweaking...


















And what the EQ looks like...


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Well...

Today I drove in to Clearwater to have the amp and speakers/tweeters installed. 

I told them I wanted the crossover set at 2 kHz, and he looked at me like I was crazy. He asked again to clarify that I wanted the tweeters crossed over that low, and I reassured him they can handle it. 

The installers had never heard of Stereo Integrity before, and after everything was installed, they did their typical phase checks and level adjustments. Needless to say, they were surprised at how powerful those TM65's are and also shocked at how good those tweeters sound crossed so low. 

Right now, only the levels and time alignment are set. The EQ is set to flat. I have to say, I'm quite impressed as well. They do need some EQ, but I just want to run them flat for a while as they break in. 

Anywho, these are the only two pics I have at the moment. Maybe this weekend (if I have time after work) I'll pull off the dash grills and the rear carpet to show the tweeters and amp. I'm not yanking the door cards though.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Not that anyone is interested... Obviously, but...

A few pics of the amp install...


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## carlr (Feb 27, 2011)

Hey,

I'm quite sure a lot of people are very interested, I know I am. But it is very easy to just stay silent in appreciation and not feed back to the OP (which is a shame). Keep up the good work.


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## norurb (Jun 28, 2013)

SQ_Blaze said:


> Not that anyone is interested... Obviously, but...


I've been watching since the start. Very envious of your build. Look forward to every post.


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

That wiring makes me warm and fuzzy inside. Everything neat, organized, zip tied and routed cleanly. That's what every basic amplifier install should look like.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm sure there's some interest. Just gets a little depressing when you come on here after a few days or a week with no responses. I guess I'm used to other automotive forums and home audio forums that have busy threads all the time.


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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

We are following man. I really like the build. Mike has those same amps in his scion. His car sounds great. I think you will be pleased with the sound you get. 

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

tnaudio said:


> We are following man. I really like the build. Mike has those same amps in his scion. His car sounds great. I think you will be pleased with the sound you get.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


I'm pretty impressed with the sound already, and that's just with me tweaking the levels and EQ a little. In a couple of days, I'll pull my laptop out and run REW on the system again and see what I can come up with. It's just a shame I only have 13 bands of EQ to use. I'll need to get a serious DSP later on down the road.

Speaking of getting things, I just ordered an Alpine Type S 15 D2.


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## tRidiot (Jun 29, 2006)

Love the build. I have a 2009, nothing near as fancy in terms of mods, but I likes it.  Keep up the good work!


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## warr40 (Jun 12, 2009)

Great build!


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## PianoMan (Jul 12, 2010)

I've got a 2010 40th Z as well; still stock Bose crap (bleh). I wanted to install something real nice, but RL got in the way (I know, excuses).

For that Alpine sub - you gonna give up the entire trunk?


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

PianoMan said:


> For that Alpine sub - you gonna give up the entire trunk?


Nope. The only thing I'm giving up is the useless tiny spare tire. The sub is going to be under a false floor nearly the same exact height as the stock floor. You won't see a thing. In fact, that goes for the entire install. The only visible thing is the head unit.


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

Nice and clean wiring with good equipment. The installers looking at you crazy asking for 2K crossover point is why I just do the work myself these days. I'm sure they are used to the 3500-4000K big box store brand stuff. Kinda the difference between a car ecu tuner and a quick lubes employee. Let them do the basics and the important stuff yourself or with an expert. Seeing that you already feel limited to 13 bands as you mentioned. You know what is next. You are already using Rew with a PC, already have a good mic from minidsp. New it's only gonna cost you $300 for a minidsp 6x8 to ultimately get you what want.


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## PianoMan (Jul 12, 2010)

SQ_Blaze said:


> Nope. The only thing I'm giving up is the useless tiny spare tire. The sub is going to be under a false floor nearly the same exact height as the stock floor. You won't see a thing. In fact, that goes for the entire install. The only visible thing is the head unit.


Interesting; not familiar with that sub, but seems you expect to get enough airspace behind it. I'll be in tune for the results.


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## TerryGreen5986 (Jun 23, 2017)

I’ve always loved Memphis Audio drivers. Don’t think they get enough recognition. Very transparent sound. I had the M Class components in front and rear of my daily driver and mannnnn they were awesome 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

As the SI mids and tweets continue to break in, I continue to tweak the levels and crossover. In doing so, there's very little EQ going on. I still need to run the "Auto" T/A and EQ on the new drivers. 

I gotta say, these speakers and this amp make for a very clean and clear sound. Though I still need a DSP to get the sound just where I want it. And even though there's zero rattles in the doors, I feel I can still do some tuning to fix that at the doors with some acoustic treatments of some sorts. The less processing I can do without, the better I always say.











Oh, and the sub came in today. It's funny, I always used to think 15's were bigger than this. It's sitting on top of my JL e110 sub, which is a massive 10" driver. The Alpine doesn't look all that much bigger! It is a rather heavy, beefy driver though.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Very nice both in the install and the acquisition of the 15" sub.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Coppertone said:


> Very nice both in the install and the acquisition of the 15" sub.


Thank you sir, though I really can't take credit for the amp install.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

I did some more tweaking on the system today. I tried the auto TA/EQ and it jacked everything way out of whack. It moved the crossover point way up at 8 kHz, jacked the upper midrange way up high as well as the treble. It was freaking horrible! 

For now, I've resorted back to the basics of no TA at all, crossover points back down at 2 kHz, and some more tweaking of the EQ by ear. I have to say, it sounds a lot better with TA turned off. Much fuller, wider and spacious. Go figure. I'm sure I'll get better results with a real DSP eventually.

I decided to stream some music from Amazon Prime. I picked Daft Punk. Damn! Someone told me that Nick runs these TM65 MkII's down to 20 Hz in his car. My head unit only allows me to run them down to 25 Hz (I normally have them at 31.5 Hz). I didn't hear much difference between the two, so I left it at 31.5 Hz. The only other option is running them wide open all the way down, but don't want to do that. 

But man, that bass! These drivers hit low and hard, even at high volumes, and stay clean, clear and crisp doing so. That bass it tight, punchy and tactile. I now see why some people run these without subs. If the interior of my Z was nice and quiet when traveling at 70 mph, I probably wouldn't be worried about a sub either. But even up to 50 mph, they sound great on their own. 

Mid-bass, midrange and treble are excellent as well. Very natural, open and smooth with plenty of dynamics and power to smack you with. I can honestly say without a doubt, that this is by far the best sounding front stage I have had to date with any of my systems, and that's saying a lot! 

Oh, and the dampening that I did on the doors and door cards are doing their job well. No rattles at all, and I was pushing the system rather hard this afternoon. A lot harder than I normally would. I mean, I had these things crankin! So much so that even the rear view mirror on the windshield was vibrating! And while I was at it, I stepped out of the car to see how it sounded outside with the car all sealed up. With the car idling (my HKS exhaust is barely louder than stock at idle), I could hardly hear the music coming through. Sure I could hear it, but it was no worse than the stock system without dampening. That's a good thing. I don't to draw attention to it, so I'm happy.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

I also took some more measurements today for the sub. If I were to build an enclosure to fit within the confines of those foam inserts on either side (just where the tire sits), at 19" x 20" x 8.5", that would only give me 1.3 cf of air space, so the foam will have to go. No real point of keeping it all there anyway if I'm not running a spare.

What I think I'll do is have the enclosure as large as possible, extending somewhat into the those rear corners. That will give me the opportunity to mount the sub off to the side towards one of those corners, probably on the passenger side. 

It'll definitely be a little bit of a challenge to shoehorn this sub into the car, but I'll get it done one way or another.

As you can see in the pics below, this Type S 15 is a bit larger than the typical 12's installed in these Z's... For obvious reasons.


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

sweet


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## PianoMan (Jul 12, 2010)

Keep it coming; I like how this build is panning out.

VERY curious on the sub - staying tuned on how you attack this 10lb beast into a 5lb sack...


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

PianoMan said:


> Keep it coming; I like how this build is panning out.
> 
> VERY curious on the sub - staying tuned on how you attack this 10lb beast into a 5lb sack...


Well, for now, it's going to have to wait. This hurricane Irma is expected to come right up the middle of Florida, so everyone is focused on that now. I really really hope nothing bad happens. Living in an apartment complex with nothing but trees everywhere and no covered parking, I'm not too thrilled.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

Great build. How did things turn out with Irma? 
Well, because of your install and testing I lowered my 65's down to 30 and they are doing great. I put a sundown 50.4 bridged on them, so roughly 150 each and they love it. Just need to deaden the doors a bit.


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## AudioE (Sep 12, 2017)

SQ_Blaze said:


> I haven't been on here in a long time, but I'm back, 4 cars later...
> 
> I'm still planning the system out. Just installed a new Pioneer AVH-X491BHS. For now I'm just using the internal amp to power the stock speakers, though using the active crossover in it along with time alignment. A major improvement over the stock head unit... Obviously.
> 
> Since I'll be using stock speaker locations, I'll be using wideband 2.75" drivers in the dash, then either 6.5" or 8" drivers in the doors. And since they will be so far apart, I want to have the crossover point as low as possible as well as get as much midrange as possible up high, hence the wideband drivers in the dash.


I do love the 350Z and might I say you'res looks looked after nicely


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

Onyx1136 said:


> That wiring makes me warm and fuzzy inside. Everything neat, organized, zip tied and routed cleanly. That's what every basic amplifier install should look like.



100% agree.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Iamsecond said:


> Great build. How did things turn out with Irma?
> Well, because of your install and testing I lowered my 65's down to 30 and they are doing great. I put a sundown 50.4 bridged on them, so roughly 150 each and they love it. Just need to deaden the doors a bit.


Irma was quite a storm. The strongest one I've been in, and it was rather scary at times, but luckily no damage to anything, apartment or cars. 

I'm glad to hear that something I've done or said got you to try the same with your system. These little TM65's just pump out the tunes and don't flinch. I'm now running mine at 25 Hz and have no complaints. They just keep rocking. 

In fact, I have done more measuring and tweaking, and have gotten to the point that I have the time alignment, levels and crossover points and slopes dialed in so well that I'm not using any EQ at all now. The EQ is set to "Flat" and it sounds great! I've managed to get the sound stage up on top of the dash where it belongs as well as the imaging right in front of me where it belongs. It's so punchy, smooth, refined and detailed, even when cranked a lot louder than I thought I would play it. But it simply sounds amazing at all volume levels, and never stressed or harsh sounding. No listener's fatigue here at all.






AudioE said:


> I do love the 350Z and might I say you'res looks looked after nicely


Thanks for the compliment! I try to take care of my 370Z as much as I can. Though living in an apartment and working long, crazy hours all the time, it tends to be a little challenging at times to wash the poor girl and keep her tidy. This past weekend, two of my brothers offered to wash it for me while they were washing their cars, so I had them over later that night for some nice fat steaks on the grill! Who's going to say no to that?! LOL



Lastly...

Just came across an old friend of mine that used to own a car audio shop here in town back in the 90's. He still does a little bit of car audio stuff on the side when time permits, just for fun. 

Anyway, I told him what I was doing with my car and that I plan on installing a 15" sub in it. He offered to build the enclosure for me. All I have to do is pay for the materials and a little something for his time. He recommended doing fiberglass. I've seen his work many times in the past as well as heard the systems that he designed and built. He knows his stuff! Several of his systems have competed quite well in IASCA and USACI.

So as of today, the plan is to go with a heavy duty fiberglass enclosure. Since this isn't his main source of income, we have to work around each other's work schedules, meaning it may take a while, but it will be done right.

Once I get the materials (which I can get at or near cost), we'll meet up, he'll mask off and make a mold of the back of the car in a layer of resin and mat, wait for it to cure enough to remove, then I can go back home and leave him with the mold so that he can work on it on his own time. 

I'm pretty excited about this!


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## 1FinalInstall (Oct 13, 2013)

Nice build! Ron's black Z is one of the best sounding cars that I've ever heard. He's running Stereo Integrity also. These Z's really work great for sound.


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

I appreciate the kind words..


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## PianoMan (Jul 12, 2010)

Great to hear about making it thru Irma! So a fiberglass enclosure, molded into the spare tire well - nice plan. What will u be driving it with again?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

1FinalInstall said:


> Nice build! Ron's black Z is one of the best sounding cars that I've ever heard. He's running Stereo Integrity also. These Z's really work great for sound.


I too appreciate the kind words. Thanks! I love these SI's!




RRizz said:


> I appreciate the kind words..


Ron, I'd be highly interested in learning about your build. Always nice to see quality SQ systems in Z's. 




PianoMan said:


> Great to hear about making it thru Irma! So a fiberglass enclosure, molded into the spare tire well - nice plan. What will u be driving it with again?


Thank you. Yes, we made it through Irma with the exception of no electricity for a few days, but I'll take that over a crushed car or a ripped off roof any day. 

Yup, a nice molded fiberglass enclosure. Never had one before, so it should be interesting. And with a single 15 tucked into a false floor in a Z, I think that will be a first. 

The entire system is powered by an Arc Audio XDi 1200.6.


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

SQ_Blaze said:


> Ron, I'd be highly interested in learning about your build. Always nice to see quality SQ systems in Z's.


 I have a few pics up in my album... The same ones that I have at the370z.com..... 
I'm actually preparing to tear down and rebuild. I'm on the pre-order for 2 SI BMmkv's, so they will be going into the hatch, under the floor, much like the current rendition.
I'm willing to answer any questions regarding my current setup, though, and will be posting a build thread at some point this winter on the new version.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

RRizz said:


> I have a few pics up in my album... The same ones that I have at the370z.com.....
> I'm actually preparing to tear down and rebuild. I'm on the pre-order for 2 SI BMmkv's, so they will be going into the hatch, under the floor, much like the current rendition.
> I'm willing to answer any questions regarding my current setup, though, and will be posting a build thread at some point this winter on the new version.


I didn't even put two and two together with you being on the Z forum. Meh, been a long and unusual day. :blush:

I do have a couple questions about your system... What are you using for tuning? And weren't you using those CDT 2" mid/tweeters at one point?


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

1FinalInstall said:


> Nice build! Ron's black Z is one of the best sounding cars that I've ever heard. He's running Stereo Integrity also. These Z's really work great for sound.


I second that, Ron's Z is superb!


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

SQ_Blaze said:


> I didn't even put two and two together with you being on the Z forum. Meh, been a long and unusual day. :blush:
> 
> I do have a couple questions about your system... What are you using for tuning? And weren't you using those CDT 2" mid/tweeters at one point?


I'm using REW for the most part for T/A, and tuning, then finish up by ear.
I still have the CDT's in dash locations. Neat thing is, they drop right in the factory openings perfectly. A little silicone on the mounting flange, and you're done. I did ALOT of searching to find a Mid that would fall right in with no modification, and they won... I cross them from 500 to 4K...... Waiting for Nick over at SI to come up with a 2" or 3" widebander so I can be 100% SI. lol


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

Locomotive Tech said:


> I second that, Ron's Z is superb!


Thank you, sir. You guys are working on my ego....


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## Locomotive Tech (May 23, 2016)

RRizz said:


> Thank you, sir. You guys are working on my ego....


I think it's the other way around....your Z is working on my ego! Lol


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

RRizz said:


> I'm using REW for the most part for T/A, and tuning, then finish up by ear.
> I still have the CDT's in dash locations. Neat thing is, they drop right in the factory openings perfectly. A little silicone on the mounting flange, and you're done. I did ALOT of searching to find a Mid that would fall right in with no modification, and they won... I cross them from 500 to 4K...... Waiting for Nick over at SI to come up with a 2" or 3" widebander so I can be 100% SI. lol


This is probably a stupid question as I'm working on a pretty nasty headache at the moment, but...

How are you using REW for T/A? 

Also, have you ever used those CDT mid/tweeters all the way up to 20 kHz before? If so, how did they compare to the SI M25 tweeters?


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

SQ_Blaze said:


> This is probably a stupid question as I'm working on a pretty nasty headache at the moment, but...
> 
> How are you using REW for T/A?
> 
> Also, have you ever used those CDT mid/tweeters all the way up to 20 kHz before? If so, how did they compare to the SI M25 tweeters?


An amazing tutorial by Mr Hanatsu explains T/A with REW here... http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum.../145484-measure-time-delay-t-arta-roomeq.html

I used the CDT's up to 20k prior to getting the M25's. No comparison. The M25 are more detailed, and less harsh. Some higher frequencies were "peaky" and hard to tame.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

RRizz said:


> An amazing tutorial by Mr Hanatsu explains T/A with REW here... http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum.../145484-measure-time-delay-t-arta-roomeq.html
> 
> I used the CDT's up to 20k prior to getting the M25's. No comparison. The M25 are more detailed, and less harsh. Some higher frequencies were "peaky" and hard to tame.


Thanks for the link. Gonna go check that out when I'm feeling better.

Have you ever run your front stage with just the SI drivers without the CDT mid? Just a simple 2-way? If so, how did it compare to the 3-way?


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

SQ_Blaze said:


> Thanks for the link. Gonna go check that out when I'm feeling better.
> 
> Have you ever run your front stage with just the SI drivers without the CDT mid? Just a simple 2-way? If so, how did it compare to the 3-way?


I have not.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Was talking a little bit more with my friend today. Since I know nothing about fiberglass and such, I had a couple of questions to ask him. I also wanted to find out what his actual plans for this enclosure was.

For starters, the entire enclosure will be made out of fiberglass except for the baffle. That will be birch ply. 

For the fiberglass, he said I'd need large weave for the large areas and fine weave for the detail areas. I've also read about chopped being better for the mold layer. However, I have no clue how much I'll need to get. 

For the resin, I was thinking of getting the Bondo brand stuff, but read through the forum that the stuff is pretty thick and difficult to work with, but is fine for the finishing layer because it has wax already mixed in with it. 

Unfortunately, none of this stuff means anything to me. I've been looking at this stuff for over a week and still have no clue about it.


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

I don't know if you've got any body shops near you but I would start there. See where they get the products they use. Another option would be something like Advance Plastics, depending on if they are local. An online option is US Composites. 

Just remember that resin/hardener is chemical reaction and disregarding the ratios will result in sub par results.

Fiberglass is fun, but messy. Cover everything you care about because it doesn't wipe off. I had cut off a shoe once cause I dripped some resin on the laces! Latex gloves are your friends


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

lashlee said:


> I don't know if you've got any body shops near you but I would start there. See where they get the products they use. Another option would be something like Advance Plastics, depending on if they are local. An online option is US Composites.
> 
> Just remember that resin/hardener is chemical reaction and disregarding the ratios will result in sub par results.
> 
> Fiberglass is fun, but messy. Cover everything you care about because it doesn't wipe off. I had cut off a shoe once cause I dripped some resin on the laces! Latex gloves are your friends


Well luckily, my friend that will be doing all of this is a long time veteran at working with fiberglass and building FG enclosures. He's been working with this stuff for nearly 30 years, so he knows all the do's and don'ts of FG'ing. 

It's just up to me to source the materials. He's given me a couple of places to check with, but they're like 50 and 80 miles away (one direction)! For the time and money spent in traveling alone, I'd be better off just ordering online.

US Composites seems to have pretty good prices, so I might end up going with them. Not too sure of any decent body shops around here other than at some actual dealerships. For applications like this, I would think it would be better to go to a body shop that does custom builds and such. They would probably be more familiar with various qualities of FG and resins rather than a dealership's body shop.

If I knew what to get and how much, I'd just order the stuff and be done with it. Only issue is, like I've said before, I don't know anything about this subject. I've never even researched it before, so it's all new to me. 

All I know is that I was told it would probably take close to 3 gallons of resin for the entire build. Other than that, I've only been told to find large weave and fine weave mat, but not any kind of weight (1.5 oz, 3 oz, etc, etc), or size sheets (yards). Also, something he didn't mention to me but I did read last night on some older threads on here, is chopped FG. Supposedly it's better for getting into tight spaces and can actually be stronger than the mat if applied correctly. Plus I guess it can be pulled apart and tucked into tight spaces.


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## juiceweazel (Jul 28, 2014)

SQ_Blaze said:


> I did some more tweaking on the system today. I tried the auto TA/EQ and it jacked everything way out of whack. It moved the crossover point way up at 8 kHz, jacked the upper midrange way up high as well as the treble. It was freaking horrible!
> 
> For now, I've resorted back to the basics of no TA at all, crossover points back down at 2 kHz, and some more tweaking of the EQ by ear. I have to say, it sounds a lot better with TA turned off. Much fuller, wider and spacious. Go figure. I'm sure I'll get better results with a real DSP eventually.


Following your build. You've chosen some great gear & your install is looking very nice.
You aren't the first person to complain about Pioneer's auto TA/EQ. I have a NEX series myself & was thoroughly displeased as well. It's a big selling point for these decks & not sure why because from what I've read, it doesn't work well.
Now the TA is pretty easy to get the basics dialed in on this deck. Just get a tape measure & start inputting away. It really brings things to life with just a basic tune.
Keep at it, can't wait to see it finished!


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

juiceweazel said:


> Following your build. You've chosen some great gear & your install is looking very nice.
> You aren't the first person to complain about Pioneer's auto TA/EQ. I have a NEX series myself & was thoroughly displeased as well. It's a big selling point for these decks & not sure why because from what I've read, it doesn't work well.
> Now the TA is pretty easy to get the basics dialed in on this deck. Just get a tape measure & start inputting away. It really brings things to life with just a basic tune.
> Keep at it, can't wait to see it finished!


Thanks for the kind words.

As far as the auto TA, it does a pretty decent job, though measuring with a tape measure got me even better results. But the auto EQ is what really blows. I was told it doesn't do well if you don't have a sub connected, which I don't yet, so that might be screwing things up.

What I don't understand about it is why it changes the crossover frequencies. Who the hell wants their mid to tweeter crossover points all the way up at 8 kHz?! All it should adjust is driver output and EQ, nothing more. 

As it sits right now (with more constant tweaking as always)...

*Crossover points*
2 kHz @ 24 dB on the tweeters
Bandpass is 40 Hz - 2 kHz @ 24 dB

*Time Alignment* 
Measured with tape then gently tweaked by ear

*Very minimal EQ*
-2 dB @ 2 kHz
-2 dB @ 3.15 kHz
+2 dB @ 8 kHz
+4 dB @ 12.5 kHz


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## lashlee (Aug 16, 2007)

SQ_Blaze said:


> Well luckily, my friend that will be doing all of this is a long time veteran at working with fiberglass and building FG enclosures. He's been working with this stuff for nearly 30 years, so he knows all the do's and don'ts of FG'ing.
> 
> It's just up to me to source the materials. He's given me a couple of places to check with, but they're like 50 and 80 miles away (one direction)! For the time and money spent in traveling alone, I'd be better off just ordering online.
> 
> ...


Shooowwweee!! 3 gallons seems like an awful lot to me. I can generally make a gallon last for quite a while. I think I used about a gallon on the two side panel enclosures I made (only the back and edges, the fronts are MDF). I'm not 100% certain, but I usually get an 8 oz bottle of MEKP and it lasts for quite a while. I also recommend one of the squeeze bottles with the measuring cup on the top. I generally make up about an 8 oz batch and be able to work it in before it begins to really set up. I usually mix some of the fine mesh (I try to lay it down first since it seems to give a better finish from the outside) then use some 1.5 oz mat for build up. Some people use cabosil for build up (I've not tried any) or make up a "milk shake" using a "bondo" and resin mix with the appropriate amounts of hardener. Don't forget about a box of chip brushes, and some fiberglass rollers to help get everything mixed in.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

lashlee said:


> Shooowwweee!! 3 gallons seems like an awful lot to me. I can generally make a gallon last for quite a while. I think I used about a gallon on the two side panel enclosures I made (only the back and edges, the fronts are MDF). I'm not 100% certain, but I usually get an 8 oz bottle of MEKP and it lasts for quite a while. I also recommend one of the squeeze bottles with the measuring cup on the top. I generally make up about an 8 oz batch and be able to work it in before it begins to really set up. I usually mix some of the fine mesh (I try to lay it down first since it seems to give a better finish from the outside) then use some 1.5 oz mat for build up. Some people use cabosil for build up (I've not tried any) or make up a "milk shake" using a "bondo" and resin mix with the appropriate amounts of hardener. Don't forget about a box of chip brushes, and some fiberglass rollers to help get everything mixed in.


Yeah, I have to agree with you. I don't know anything about fiberglass and resin, and even to me, 3 gallons of resin sounded pretty damn outrageous. 

With that being said, I think I have decided to forget about this long lost so called "friend" of mine. He's not very forthcoming in his text messages, very short answers and still no real information on what to buy. Probably a good thing in a way, so I'm not blowing money on a bunch of extra material that's not needed for the actual project. Maybe it's his way of having others buy materials for him and his own projects. 

So with that, I guess I'm ditching this dude and going with a traditional MDF/birch enclosure. Though I really didn't want to go that route due to the extra weight, but it will probably be quicker and cheaper to build. 

Kinda sucks, but I'm also tired of looking at crap I don't know anything about, and tired of having no real bass in the car yet.


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## 1FinalInstall (Oct 13, 2013)

I've been using quite a bit of fiberglass resin/chop mat/fumed silica on my sub enclosure recently and 3 gallons seems about right if you want the proper rigidity. I'll have 3 gallons in mine and it was only used on the front of it. Just my .02.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

1FinalInstall said:


> I've been using quite a bit of fiberglass resin/chop mat/fumed silica on my sub enclosure recently and 3 gallons seems about right if you want the proper rigidity. I'll have 3 gallons in mine and it was only used on the front of it. Just my .02.


And I've heard this too, that 3 gallons is about normal, but heard more that it's way more than needed. I just don't know.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

So I have an update/upgrade coming for the system. 

Due to an ongoing issue with my Arc XDi 1200.6, I now have a Helix P Six DSP MK2 coming to replace it. It's just a tad bit less power at 125 watts @ 4 ohms vs 150 watts from the XDi. 

The bigger difference is that the XDi allows bridging of channels 5 and 6 for 600 watts @ 4 ohms. The Helix doesn't allow bridging at all, but produces 230 watts @ 2 ohms on channels 3 thru 6. 

Channels 1 thru 4 will be running at 4 ohms for the front stage. The 15" Alpine Type S sub is dual 2 ohm, so it will be getting 230 watts to each coil. 

Of course, the real icing on the cake is the fact that the Helix amp has a full DSP built-in. A LOT more flexible than the DSP built into my Pioneer head unit.


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## Carlton9000 (Sep 16, 2017)

$ubbed


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Carlton9000 said:


> $ubbed


LOL! Small world!


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## BlueSQ (Mar 22, 2007)

Not sure where you're at with your install but I suggest you get about 60-80 sqft of 3m thinsulate SM600l and layer ever possible square inch of that car. The trunk area is already quite sturdy, especially around the wheel wells and horizontal supports. Nissan really dumped a bunch of metal back there, you don't need to weigh it down any more with Dynamat. If you're doing a custom sub setup in the trunk, a decoupler like closed cell foam will be helpful.

The roof, however, has big expanses of thin sheet metal. That's where you'll get the most bang for your buck out of vibration dampener. Drop the roof liner, apply the Dynamat and then glue the thinsulate to the roof liner to sandwich it in there when you reinstall.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

BlueSQ said:


> Not sure where you're at with your install but I suggest you get about 60-80 sqft of 3m thinsulate SM600l and layer ever possible square inch of that car. The trunk area is already quite sturdy, especially around the wheel wells and horizontal supports. Nissan really dumped a bunch of metal back there, you don't need to weigh it down any more with Dynamat. If you're doing a custom sub setup in the trunk, a decoupler like closed cell foam will be helpful.
> 
> The roof, however, has big expanses of thin sheet metal. That's where you'll get the most bang for your buck out of vibration dampener. Drop the roof liner, apply the Dynamat and then glue the thinsulate to the roof liner to sandwich it in there when you reinstall.


unfortunately its kinda tough to get thinsulate now. but, you can get hydrophobic melamine foam from SDS which they started offering as an alternative


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## riceandpho (Dec 30, 2009)

I think I just watch the install video of your car on youtube fivestarcarstereo. I didn't know your radio has network mode or not. But they were using the amps crossover. They do spend a lot of time to wire up the install.


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## disconnected (May 10, 2017)

+1 on Fivestarcarestereo -


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

5star video of your car installation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7lY7hd2kf8


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Yup, that's my car alright. Dean and Fernando kick ass with their installs. Not flashy and complicated, just straight forward and stock looking. Exactly what I wanted. That's why I went to them. Watching hours of their video installs, I knew they were the ones I wanted to do the install. 

I still need to go back to them to swap out that Ark amp for the Helix amp. At least now, it'll be somewhat cool out, so they won't be burning up out there behind the shop. I felt bad for them because of that. 

BTW, did you notice that Dean said that "these speakers actually sound really good"?! 

Yeah... He said that.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Yes, they liked it.
I was wondering if you will be going to the Octave GTG on December 2nd. I would like to get a demo of your system. If my wife is off, I'll definitely drive up from Miami. 
I think they did a really nice and clean install.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

SQLnovice said:


> Yes, they liked it.
> I was wondering if you will be going to the Octave GTG on December 2nd. I would like to get a demo of your system. If my wife is off, I'll definitely drive up from Miami.
> I think they did a really nice and clean install.


I'm not sure what Octave GTG is or where it's at. The bad thing is, I work retail, and will be working that weekend. Same reason I never can make it to the local Cars & Coffee every first Sat of the month... I'm always freakin' working that weekend.


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## disconnected (May 10, 2017)

SQ_Blaze said:


> BTW, did you notice that Dean said that "these speakers actually sound really good"?!
> Yeah... He said that.


Very nice. I am glad he can appreciate them. BTW, can you give us an idea of what is hourly rate is? I might have him do some work.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

It’s great to see/read about someone who’s very happy with their install.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

disconnected said:


> Very nice. I am glad he can appreciate them. BTW, can you give us an idea of what is hourly rate is? I might have him do some work.


I honestly don't know. I know what the total cost was for the entire day including parts and labor, but not the hourly rate. And I was there from 9am to 5:30pm.


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## disconnected (May 10, 2017)

SQLnovice said:


> Yes, they liked it.
> I was wondering if you will be going to the Octave GTG on December 2nd.


where and when?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

disconnected said:


> where and when?


Octave added an event.
The Octave 5th Annual SQ Meet and SQ Workshop.
Nick Wingate will be in town to head up the workshop. We will be going back to basics and covering amplifier set up. Topics to be covered is gain setting, gain matching, crossover set up, time alignment techniques and RTA work with an aim to show how to get a system to about 80% of a full tune. A checklist along with a setup CD will be provided.
Products from various vendors will be on display along with plenty of great cars to listen to.
Sammy Vega will be on grill duty. If you were at this year's "SQ BBQ" you know Sammy knows his way around a grill.
For more info 
407-697-2317
[email protected]

DEC 2, Saturday
5TH Annual Octave SQ Meet
11 AM · Octave · Orlando
5651 Commerce Dr, Ste 5
Orlando, Florida 32839

https://www.facebook.com/OctaveAudio/

Here is what Russ (the owner) posted on FB.

I'm going from Miami, so if other members are going, we can arrange to meet up for breakfast or something before.

Sorry OP for thread jacking.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Something I noticed from watching that video again... It looks like Fernando only finger tightened the left tweeter, and neither of them ever installed those foam "Fast" rings on the mids like they always do. 

I'm going to have to talk to them about that whenever I can make it back there to have them swap amps. I'm tired of having this $1500 brand new DSP amp collection dust and kitty fuzz balls under my couch. And yes, it's still in the box.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

So it's been a few months since being on here. Things like work and family have put the car audio projects on hold for a bit. But I'm back, and plans have shifted a little for the system.

First and foremost, the Helix amp is STILL in the shipping box. 

Secondly, I'm going in a more drastic direction and NOT using the Alpine 15" sub, which too is STILL in the shipping box. 

With this being a sports car, weight is an important factor, so doing a half fiberglass, half wood false floor sub enclosure and a heavy 15" driver is not the best idea for this car.

Recently, because I've been tired of driving around listening to the system with no real bass once I get up over 30 mph (road noise drowns out the bass the awesome SI drivers produce), I purchased an 8 ohm DVC 6.5" Bazooka tube!

For the past few days, I've been tweaking crossover points and slopes, tweaking speaker levels, and tweaking time alignment, all by ear. The way I have it dialed in right now, the sound stage is wide and high, and all of the bass is coming from up front, even though the sub is physically about 4 feet behind me on the passenger side.

Zero tone controls, zero EQ, zero bass boost, and this setup is so flat and natural, crisp, detailed, tight, punchy, extends pretty deep, can play pretty damn loud and is totally non-fatiguing. 

Say what you will, but when properly positioned and tuned, these little Bazooka tubes do a great job. And this is the way I'll be going with my system.

When I switch out amps, I'll be going from 600 watts mono @ 4 ohms with the Arc amp to only 230 watts x 2 @ 2 ohms with the Helix. So with that in mind, I'll be going with either two 4 ohm DVC 6.5" Bazooka's or two 4 ohm DVC 8" Bazooka's. I'll mount them in the spare tire well under the stock rear floor. Either will fit just fine, though the 8's are a touch more efficient so will offer a bit more "oomph" for the 230 watts. 

I know haters are gonna hate, but I really don't care. For the music I listen to (jazz, blues, rock, and some old school rap), this single little sub does an excellent job. But that's also with 600 watts on tap. So with only 230 watts available from the Helix, going with two is a no brainer. 

And for the heck of it...


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

No hating. I bought 2 of the 10inch bazookas to put in a car I had in the late 80s. They were loud and efficient and the bass was as you described. Back then people replaced the driver with Orion hcca 10 and things got interesting to say the least. I eventually sold them to a friend who put the in a crx. Glad you found the right combo for sound and weight


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

At the end of the day, there's only one person that needs to be satisfied with it.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Iamsecond said:


> No hating. I bought 2 of the 10inch bazookas to put in a car I had in the late 80s. They were loud and efficient and the bass was as you described. Back then people replaced the driver with Orion hcca 10 and things got interesting to say the least. I eventually sold them to a friend who put the in a crx. Glad you found the right combo for sound and weight


I remember seeing that back then. That was the good ole' days. One of my brothers had the old 6" Bazooka back in the early to mid 90's, powered by an a/d/s amp in his 1991 VW GTi 16V. I think the a/d/s was sending it 75 watts or so, and that little sub thumped away in his car. He later replaced it with a pair of Audio Art 10's in a 3cf ported enclosure, and the Bazooka actually sounded a LOT better.





RRizz said:


> At the end of the day, there's only one person that needs to be satisfied with it.


This is true, and that one person is me. I don't have plans on taking this car to competitions obviously, though I do demand a great sound stage, which I have. Besides, for audiophile sound, that's what my home system is for. That's where I dump all of my money. The car system is just for fun.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Love those bazookas, I had 2-10s back in the days and absolutely loved them.


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## TerryGreen5986 (Jun 23, 2017)

Got the same HU in my old Accord. Ur gonna love the SQ u get outta that unit 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

SQLnovice said:


> Love those bazookas, I had 2-10s back in the days and absolutely loved them.


I honestly don't know why I didn't try these out in any of my own systems earlier. Just this single 6.5" is rocking it like crazy, with excellent detail, crisp impact, and totally non-localized. 

I was listening to a Genesis album today, and it's amazing what this one little Bazooka is capable of. So quick and agile going through the notes and beats. 










As I said before... Whoever makes fun of these subs and says they're boomy or flabby, they have no earthly clue what they're talking about. 





TerryGreen5986 said:


> Got the same HU in my old Accord. Ur gonna love the SQ u get outta that unit
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I already do love the SQ out of it! I just don't like the algorithms it uses. Any little adjustment you make on the EQ, it throws the entire sound totally off throughout the entire frequency range.

Luckily, I don't use any EQ, and have tweaked the crossover, levels and TA to not have to use any tone controls.


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## TerryGreen5986 (Jun 23, 2017)

SQ_Blaze said:


> I already do love the SQ out of it! I just don't like the algorithms it uses. Any little adjustment you make on the EQ, it throws the entire sound totally off throughout the entire frequency range.
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily, I don't use any EQ, and have tweaked the crossover, levels and TA to not have to use any tone controls.



Oh ok yea I use a DSP with mine so I only use the EQ for “minor” adjustments. Which is pretty much never lol



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

TerryGreen5986 said:


> Oh ok yea I use a DSP with mine so I only use the EQ for “minor” adjustments. Which is pretty much never lol
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Once I get my Helix amp installed, I won't be dealing with any of the settings in the head unit either. It will be reduced to a transport with volume.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Okay, so plans have changed a little. For one, I am NOT installing the Helix amp. In fact, it's up for sale right now in the Classifieds section. I solved the intermittent issue with my Arc Audio amp. It has been running flawlessly for the past couple of months. Turned out to be faulty crossover switches in the amp. Simply bypass the internal crossovers and everything is fine.

So... as far as the subs are concerned, I ordered a pair of the Bazooka BT8024DVC 8" subs like I originally planned. The nice thing is, keeping with the Arc amp, I'm giving these subs a healthy, clean 600 watts instead of the 230 watts if I had gone with the Helix. Honestly, 230 watts would probably be more than enough, but I'm always one for plenty of headroom power.

Anyway, I removed the spare tire and strapped the subs down in the tire well, retaining ALL of my limited cargo room. Of course, the main benefit is maintaining a totally stock appearance. The only visible thing is the head unit. Even the "bass knob" for the sub channels is hidden, yet still easily accessible while driving. 

For the actual install, I bought four 4' tie-down straps to use instead of the much shorter ones that Bazooka supplies with the subs. Reason being that the formed foam floor inserts in the 370Z has slots with velcro straps already going through them to hold down the various tire/jack/toe hook hardware in place. I wanted to use these same slots to "mount" the subs to, and the Bazooka straps simply wouldn't be long enough to reach over to and through those 8" thick foam inserts and still wrap around the subs. 

And if you're familiar with that non-slip padded lining that's used in toolboxes, I used some of that under the tubes on the floor to keep the tubes from possibly slide forwards or backwards. I've got the subs snugged down pretty darn good and doubt they'd shift around, but just for that little added assurance, I threw some under the subs anyway.

Here's a few pics of the BT6028DVC next to the BT8024DVC, just for comparisons sakes. BTW, the 6.5" sub will be going into the girlfriend's little Fiat Pop - It's a great little sub!





























And here's both 8's...




















To the untrained eye, you would never know there's anything out of the norm going on back there. The floor is just barely a touch higher than stock. I'll get some better pics in a few days...


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Let's talk performance...

Bazooka tube subs do not get the respect they deserve. People always complain about them being boomy, being flabby, having soft (not tight or punchy) bass, not being detailed, not extending deep.

Even with the little 6.5" Bazooka that I started with, I can easily prove all of the above wrong. In fact, it's been about 20 years since I've listened to a Bazooka tube, and I was once gain shocked at how good these little things can actually sound in a proper system, and when the sub is properly loaded into a corner.

If you do a simple Google search, you will quickly learn that 95% of the people who buy these subs do NOT pay attention to the directions on proper placement. Nor do most of them use, ample, quality amplification. If you feed crap into them, you're going to get crap out of them. And if you're going to do a careless, crap install, you're to get crap performance out of them.

Anyway, after moving up from the single 6.5 to the single 8, I had to reduce the sub output a bit. I ordered both subs at the same time but one arrived a day late. Go figure.

So yes, I had to knock down the output a bit when I swapped out from the 6.5" to the 8", even though I had the 8" wired in series for an 8 ohm load, getting only 300 watts out of the amp vs the 600 watts going into the 6.5. 

Once I connected the second 8 the following day, I had to again reduce the output a little. I want the gain to be low enough so that it doesn't overpower the front stage as well as allowing a fair amount of range on the "bass knob" for some of those weaker songs when needed. 

After installing both 8's and getting the rest of the flooring back in the car, I then started the tweaking process, so far just by ear, and quite possibly only by ear. And speaking of the installation, the "woofer" end of the subs are roughly 3" from the back wall of the trunk floor. I tried them an inch closer and an inch further away, but the 3" mark seems to be ideal for these subs in the spare tire well of my 370Z. 

All crossover duties are taken care of within the head unit as the crossovers in the amp are totally bypassed. Focusing on the subs and mids, I have the subs crossed over at 80 Hz with a -36 dB slope. The mids are crossed at 63 Hz with a -12 dB slope. Gain and time alignment is set accordingly via tape measure and some help from one of my brothers. 

These crossover points and slopes are not set in stone, but until I come across some music where it doesn't sound right, they're pretty much staying put for the moment. 

I am also happy to say that I still am not using any tone controls or EQ or bass boost. As far as all of that is concerned, it is all either bypassed or left flat.

The integration of the subs and the front stage seem near seamless to me. There are a few older recordings that tend to separate the front stage from the subs a little at times, but the majority of time, it's near seamless. Then again, listening to those older albums on my home system, the upper bass, lower midrange tends to be a little bit on the lean side of neutral, so it stands to reason it would reveal itself this way in the car as well. With that said, 95% of the time, the bass sounds like it's coming from the dash in front of me. 

Concerning detail and accuracy, I'm quite amazed at how well the Bazooka subs keep up and blend with the SI mids. Vocals have more lifelike weight to them, cellos have more texture, piano has more scale, electric bass has more dynamics and in-your-face slap. 

As far as outright bass is concerned, these subs deliver. They ARE tight, they ARE punchy, they ARE detailed, and they DO extend fairly deep, deeper than their 39 Hz specs, thanks to proper corner loading, cabin gain, tuning and power available on tap.

Classic jazz, new jazz, smooth jazz, fusion jazz, blues, these subs reproduce the bass faithfully with plenty of power, attack and detail. I'm not into all of this new R&B, hip-hop and rap crap that's out there today, but throw on some old school Beastie Boys, Run D.M.C., Slick Rick, Doug E. Fresh, etc, etc, and these Bazooka's thump and bump all day long with the best of them. They definitely sound and perform like larger subs in traditional larger boxed enclosures. Luckily though, they don't exactly sound like traditional ported enclosures either. If anything, they could easily be mistaken as sealed subs with the way they reproduce bass. 

Playing music that has truly deep, natural bass such as large scale orchestra/symphony music or pipe organ music, the Bazooka's do quite well, but you can definitely tell where they start rolling off, which if I had to guess is somewhere around 30 Hz, not 40 Hz (39 Hz in specs). They dig down pretty deep without effort or strain until the bass just rapidly fades out. 

Things like the canons in the Telarc Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, the Bazooka's recreate the canons' blasts with loads of impact, power and slam, though the rumble that comes shortly afterwords is a little on the lean side. Likewise with pipe organ pedal notes that extend down as low as 16 Hz or lower (depending on the organ). There's plenty of body and weight, and thanks to pipe organs having 2nd and 3rd harmonics to play off of, it still sounds great. It's just the very low frequencies from 30 Hz on down just are not present. What is there, it's there with plenty of oomph and naturalness. 

And keep in mind, these subs are brand new, are not fully broken in yet, and have not even been pushed yet. I know that the little 6.5" Bazooka started to come alive after about 1.5 weeks of use. I only have about 2 days on these dual 8's so far. So more tuning and tweaking is in my near future as well as these subs only getting better with time.

All in all, I am extremely pleased with this system so far. Everything works together perfectly and the speakers chosen all around well exceed my expectations. I'll have to let some people have a listen and see what they have to say, not telling them any details of the system until after they have a listen.


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

Sounds like a winner


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

It is!

Coming home tonight from my father's place, I was listening to Carmen Rizzo - The Lost Art of the Idle Moment via Tidal. I can't remember what song it was, but damn it was making these Bazooka tubes dig deep, hit hard, and display some great dynamics and transients. 

I have to admit, I honestly wasn't prepared to hear this quality of bass come from these things. I was expecting decent sound at best, but nothing like this. The more I listen to these tubes and the more they break in, the better they're getting and the more impressive they're getting. 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not hyping Bazooka tubes up or claiming they're the best thing since sliced bread, but I have had some top quality subs in the past, and I can tell you right now that in this system and in this car, these dual 8's are besting the single 12" Image Dynamics IDMAX 12, or single Stereo Integrity Mag 12 v4, or a single JL 12W6, and those were damn good sounding subs.

And just for fun, a better pic of the trunk/hatch floor with the subs installed. Doesn't look much different from stock!


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Now that I've lost everyone's interest in this thread for going with Bazooka subs, I'll still post an update...

Going on two weeks of running these subs in, they have only gotten better. 

Definition and speed has improved. Dynamic swing is shockingly good. Low end extension has seemed to "blossom" a bit more, making them reproduce some rather strong deep bass with plenty of weight and warmth. The upper end of the spectrum where they are crossed over (still at 80 Hz @ -36 dB) is much more controlled and clean, allowing them to blend even more seamlessly with the front stage.

I really wasn't expecting this level of performance from these Bazooka subs. They definitely perform above their price point, and definitely perform a LOT better than what most people claim (or rather complain/bash) about them. They're not boomy, they're not sloppy, they aren't lacking, they aren't thin, they're not noisy, etc, etc. 

The fact that I'm getting this level of performance with this level of clean and controlled output in a completely stealth install in a car with extremely limited space, these subs have completely exceeded all of my expectations. I'm certain if anyone here heard my system, you wouldn't believe your ears. You would think there's a large sub enclosure sitting behind your head, out in the open.

Of course, this says a lot for the Arc XDi 1200.6 amp as well. Small, compact and efficient, yet packs a lot of clean refined power for the entire system with ample power reserves.


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## carlr (Feb 27, 2011)

SQ_Blaze said:


> The fact that I'm getting this level of performance with this level of clean and controlled output in a completely stealth install in a car with extremely limited space, these subs have completely exceeded all of my expectations. I'm certain if anyone here heard my system, you wouldn't believe your ears. You would think there's a large sub enclosure sitting behind your head, out in the open.
> 
> Of course, this says a lot for the Arc XDi 1200.6 amp as well. Small, compact and efficient, yet packs a lot of clean refined power for the entire system with ample power reserves.


I listened to an SQ car a few years back which actually had one of these 6,5" "Bazookas" mounted as a front sub and I was pleasantly surprised of the performance. But like in your case, there was some serious amplification going on - and I suspect this is a contributing factor to the performance. I expect in most cases people are running these with poor or underrated amps, which doesn't help with performance.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I’m still here with you OP and am enjoying the fact that you are having a great time with this.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

carlr said:


> I listened to an SQ car a few years back which actually had one of these 6,5" "Bazookas" mounted as a front sub and I was pleasantly surprised of the performance. But like in your case, there was some serious amplification going on - and I suspect this is a contributing factor to the performance. I expect in most cases people are running these with poor or underrated amps, which doesn't help with performance.


I'm sure that's exactly what gives these little subs a bad name. A lot of these guys slap cheap amps and head units on them, jack the bass up to max, and they almost never have them positioned properly. 

Listening to some Sophie Milman and Norah Jones on the way home tonight demonstrated quite well how natural and detailed these subs can be when properly dialed in. It also exposed the fact that I still have some TA tweaking to do, which will also require some levels adjustments as well. But with that said, the system is sounding pretty damn good so far.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Still a thumpin' and a bumpin' with the Bazookas. 

The more I tweak the system and the more these subs are run in, the better they sound. I'm very impressed and pleased with the quality I'm getting out of them. And I can honestly say that they extend quite a bit deeper than their rated 39 Hz. They are easily digging down into the mid-20's without stress, and that's even at pretty high volumes. 

What's even more amazing is the fact that I'm getting all of this sound, and all of this volume out of a single, small digital amp, that even at high volumes, the volt meter in my Z doesn't even budge sitting at idle. 

And on top of all that, as loud as it gets inside the car (crystal clear with no listening fatigue at all I might add), when outside the car, all you hear is the muffled sound of the SI TM65 MkII's in the doors, nothing else. Even with the windows down, it's not loud outside at all, and you can't even hear the subs. This system is stealthy in more ways than one!

Maybe if I have time this weekend, I'll pull out my laptop and test equipment and run some measurements. Maybe attempt to mess around with the EQ a tiny bit, maybe. I like doing all of my tuning with crossover points/slopes and levels, no EQ. Right now, to my ears, the system sounds pretty flat across the board, again, with no EQ.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

So here I am, just over a year later, and still running the same gear and tune basically untouched the entire time.

I've been reading through the "Precision time alignment using only noise tracks and your ears" thread the last few days and decided to try this technique out with my system. After several attempts, I've made some very decent improvements in overall sound. I now have a more open, more neutral, snappier and punchier sound. I was also able to raise and widen the sound stage a bit more as well. 

Now for the news... In a couple of months, we'll be moving out of this stupid apartment and finally into a house... With a freaking garage! So once were unpacked and settled in, I think I might start moving forward with this system some more. I'll be looking into getting a DSP and either putting in that Alpine Type S 15" sub that I still have laying around or something else. 

And just for fun, here's a few pics of my current (and best sounding) settings thus far. And yes, I'm still rocking those Bazooka 8" subs. They're surprisingly good! I've fooled quite a few people with them. They think I'm running a pair of 10's or a really good 12 in a custom enclosure! LOL


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## Adrock (Jan 21, 2019)

Swaglife81 said:


> Nice and clean wiring with good equipment. The installers looking at you crazy asking for 2K crossover point is why I just do the work myself these days. I'm sure they are used to the 3500-4000K big box store brand stuff. Kinda the difference between a car ecu tuner and a quick lubes employee. Let them do the basics and the important stuff yourself or with an expert. Seeing that you already feel limited to 13 bands as you mentioned. You know what is next. You are already using Rew with a PC, already have a good mic from minidsp. New it's only gonna cost you $300 for a minidsp 6x8 to ultimately get you what want.


LOL..... You obviously have never watched 5 Star Car Audio on YouTube. They are FAR from just some random installers and have years of experience under their belts. They are also very well connected in the aftermarket community and know what they are doing.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Adrock said:


> LOL..... You obviously have never watched 5 Star Car Audio on YouTube. They are FAR from just some random installers and have years of experience under their belts. They are also very well connected in the aftermarket community and know what they are doing.


Precisely why I went to 5 Star. Not only do they do excellent no nonsense installs, they also listen to their customers. I'm quite sure if I went to some other shops, they would try telling me that I'm wrong and that they insist on using "their" crossover frequency. 

Dean admitted that he had never had any experience with Stereo Integrity speakers before and that I probably knew better when it came to the capabilities and settings for these drivers. 

Most installers wouldn't admit something like that.


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

5 Star Car Audio is the "everyman" car audio shop. No nonsense, just good sense. Clean and simple builds done right. I like those guys.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Going back to tweaking the TA on this system, as I was reading through that thread I mentioned above, I came across a link to another thread outlining yet another technique. 

This one requires temporarily wiring the right mid-bass out of phase from the sub, running a mono signal, adjusting the crossover points so that they overlap, etc, etc, etc. Well, since I can flip the phase of my subs via the head unit, I just did that instead. 

With the balance all the way to the right, I set a 100 Hz test tone and started adjusting the TA on the right mid-bass until I had the most cancellation. I then moved the balance all the way to the left and did the same. I then muted the subs and compared the two mid-basses against each other, which proved to be maximum in-phase output. :thumbsup:

Leaving the subs muted, I started playing some very familiar tracks streamed via Tidal to adjust the tweeter TA via taste. Once the center image was solid and the stage had opened up, I stopped. 

I un-muted the subs, and BAM! All of the bass, and I do mean ALL of the bass is now coming from the front stage only. I detect nothing coming from the rear of the car. And the fact that the subs and mid-basses are now in perfect phase and TA, the bass is much tighter, punchier, crisp and extremely natural. Before this current tweaking, with certain frequencies, I was getting weird phase shifts and at some points, the system would get chesty and mono-ish sounding, even after the tweaks a couple nights ago. 

Tweeter/mid-bass integration is 95% better. Again, there were weird phase shift issues going on and you could notice a definite physical gap between the mid-basses and tweeters, since the tweeters are in the dash firing straight up into the windshield and the mid-basses are in the front bottom of the doors. But now, a HUGE improvement! 

Crossover points have changed as well. Everything is now set at -12dB slopes, subs and mid-basses are crossed at 50 Hz, the bandpass is set at 1.6 kHz, and the tweeters are set at 2 kHz. And on top of that, ZERO EQ. The EQ is totally flat.

And yes, these Bazooka subs are still impressing me, even more so now that the system is really dialed in now. I'm still going to replace them at some point with the Alpine 15 or something, but I'm certainly not in any hurry at the moment.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

I purchased something several hours ago for the system... A Rainbow DSP 1.8 with WiFi module.


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## RRizz (Sep 4, 2012)

Nice


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

RRizz said:


> Nice


I'll say! I'm looking forward to finally having a REAL DSP in my system. I had that Helix amp a while back but never got around to installing it. And that was a darn nice unit too. But I've had good luck with Rainbow in the past. I had a pair of their 6.5" mids that performed rather well, though the rest of the system wasn't sorted out as good as my current system.


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## BlueSQ (Mar 22, 2007)

SQ_Blaze said:


> With the balance all the way to the right, I set a 100 Hz test tone and started adjusting the TA on the right mid-bass until I had the most cancellation. I then moved the balance all the way to the left and did the same...
> 
> ...the bandpass is set at 1.6 kHz


How did you achieve a good center image for midrange if you were only adjusting for 100 hz cancellation on mids that play all the way up to 1,6khz? 

Do you have the numbers on exactly what you set the delay to on your mids?


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

BlueSQ said:


> How did you achieve a good center image for midrange if you were only adjusting for 100 hz cancellation on mids that play all the way up to 1,6khz?
> 
> Do you have the numbers on exactly what you set the delay to on your mids?


Because the phase/TA doesn't care what frequency you use to adjust to. As long as the phase and timing is correct, as well as gain, that's all that matters. 

I don't have the exact numbers with me. Not like it would matter anyway. All cars are different as well as listening position.


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## BlueSQ (Mar 22, 2007)

SQ_Blaze said:


> Because the phase/TA doesn't care what frequency you use to adjust to. As long as the phase and timing is correct, as well as gain, that's all that matters.


That is inaccurate, from the way you describe it you are adjusting timing to combine nulls in midbass which is specific to that frequency. Your phase could be completely jacked through the midrange which might be by you're having panning issues.



SQ_Blaze said:


> All cars are different as well as listening position.


As long as it works in your car, that's all that matters.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm not sure what you're saying is accurate either. I made these adjustments basically the same way they are outlined in threads on this very forum, only that I inverted the phase on the subs electronically instead of physically flipping wires going to the mids. 

And because of doing this, even at 100 Hz, it totally solved my "panning" issues. 

Either way, it does in fact work, at least with the limited abilities of my head unit. BUT, that will be a moot point soon as I have a Rainbow DSP 1.8 + wifi headed my way, which has all of the flexibility I will need to get this system dialed in properly. For now, what I have achieved with the head unit will work.


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## flgfish (Jan 17, 2019)

I dig the build and the car. Must be a fun whip! Are you going to install the DSP or have the 5* guys do it?


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

flgfish said:


> I dig the build and the car. Must be a fun whip! Are you going to install the DSP or have the 5* guys do it?


Thanks! It's definitely a fun car to drive, especially with nearly 60 extra HP under the hood and a little over 100 lbs lighter. 

As for the install, I will probably do it myself. Everything is already there, I just need to do a little rerouting of cables and it should be done within a few hours.

And speaking of the DSP, I have an update on that. There ended up being some technical difficulties with the Rainbow DSP. After a little discussion with the seller, I am now getting a new Helix DSP.2.


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## flgfish (Jan 17, 2019)

SQ_Blaze said:


> After a little discussion with the seller, I am now getting a new Helix DSP.2.


Did you get a decent deal? The DSP.3 is showing up at dealers now. I know Skizer was playing with one this week.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

flgfish said:


> Did you get a decent deal? The DSP.3 is showing up at dealers now. I know Skizer was playing with one this week.


Very much so my friend. The .2 will be more than enough for my needs.

Funny thing, I just uninstalled the software for the Rainbow DSP, and it's installed file size was only 10.5Mb. I then installed the Helix software, which installed is 111Mb.


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## flgfish (Jan 17, 2019)

SQ_Blaze said:


> Funny thing, I just uninstalled the software for the Rainbow DSP, and it's installed file size was only 10.5Mb. I then installed the Helix software, which installed is 111Mb.


I like the Helix software the best, and I demoed it all. I have hit bugs between versions, so if you find something screwy, try a different version.  I even like the RTA, but that may be because I find REW to be the most unnecessarily complicated software I've ever used. I'm running a V Eight in my 911...


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

flgfish said:


> I like the Helix software the best, and I demoed it all. I have hit bugs between versions, so if you find something screwy, try a different version.  I even like the RTA, but that may be because I find REW to be the most unnecessarily complicated software I've ever used. I'm running a V Eight in my 911...


I still had the Helix software on my laptop from when I had the P Six MkII amp. I just downloaded the latest version. I've played around with the software a little bit, but never installed that amp.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Got the Helix DSP.2 yesterday in the mail. Just opened it up and checked it out this evening after work. Man, this thing is a LOT smaller than I was thinking. For whatever reason, I was thinking this thing was going to be almost as big as the Helix P Six amp I had a while back. It's actually about a third of the size. 

I'll be installing it this weekend. 


After that, I have to figure out how I'm going to install that Alpine SWSD2 15" sub under the floor in the rear of this car. As far as I know, no one else has installed a 15" sub in a 370Z yet, except for one over the top German install that I think used two 15" drivers, but they were inverted and all hanging out. 

I'm going for full stealth mode, so the challenge is there.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

I installed the Helix today and did some rough tweaking. Since I've been playing around a little bit with the software for the past week or so, all I had to do is connect my laptop to the Helix and simply upload the file... Instant system setup! 

Tomorrow, weather permitting, I'll go back out to the car and do some more tweaking as far as TA, levels and such are concerned. Maybe even run REW on the system and see where things stand. 

So far, things sound really good!


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

More tweaking performed today. Never got around to running REW though.

Put all of the output levels back to zero except for the tweeters. I knocked both tweeters down by -2 dB. Subs and mids at zero.

I briefly touched on crossover points again for all drivers. Lowered the tweeters to 1900 Hz, the mids from 65 Hz to 1986 Hz, and subs up to 98 Hz. Subs and mids in phase, tweeters 180* out of phase. All crossovers are LR 24 dB. 

Instead of trying to help achieve a center image by lowering levels on the left channels along with TA, I left them alone and just took a different path for TA. I adjusted TA until I got a pretty decent, stable center image, but also gave me a somewhat mono-ish overall sound. So, to really lock a center image and still have a nice wide stage, I played around with phase a little on each front stage driver, and going back and forth between TA and phase until it sounded right on multiple recordings. 

Not once did I ever adjust the levels again, and still managed to get a solid center image just above the dash and a nice, wide sound stage. Quite impressive to say the least! Not to mention the majority of bass content all up front as well.

After getting to a happy place with TA and phase, I listened to a bunch more music of all genres, electronic, acoustic, vocal, rock, jazz. There's still room for improvement of course, but it's a night and day difference from what was capable with the Pioneer head unit on its own. 

Lastly, I decided to dabble lightly with EQ, just very basic EQ. A light combination of graphic, fine adjust and PEQ, all done for each stereo pair, not individual drivers. I rolled off the top end ever so slightly, removed a very small amount of "honk" in the midrange, and just a little bit of boost (about +2 dB) between 37 Hz and 57 Hz.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Why bother tweaking around if your not going to break out REW if you know how to use it? 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Because it's fun, I'm in no time crunch timeline, and just want to see how close I can get by ear, which probably won't be close at all.


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