# BRAX OR SINFONI



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

So I have seen a lot about sinfoni, but very little on Brax. I really like my helix a2 and a4. I plan to upgrade here soon but my decision is not set in stone. But i plan on running the Brax m3cpp components also. But I'm here to see what all the rage is about on the sinfoni amps and speakers. So let's talk about it!


----------



## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

supertrav2 said:


> So I have seen a lot about sinfoni, but very little on Brax. I really like my helix a2 and a4. I plan to upgrade here soon but my decision is not set in stone. But i plan on running the Brax m3cpp components also. But I'm here to see what all the rage is about on the sinfoni amps and speakers. So let's talk about it!


Brax amps sinfoni drivers? Mix it up! Peronally id go sinfoni


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

That's funny as I own Brax amps and Sinfoni mids lol...


----------



## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

supertrav2 said:


> So I have seen a lot about sinfoni, but very little on Brax. I really like my helix a2 and a4. I plan to upgrade here soon but my decision is not set in stone. But i plan on running the Brax m3cpp components also. But I'm here to see what all the rage is about on the sinfoni amps and speakers. So let's talk about it!


I switched from Helix A2(sub), A4(midbass), A6(mids/tweets) to two Arc Audio SE 4200s(modded) one per side. Results staging/imaging improved, 5% warmer, better control of the speakers, especially midrange control.

Sinfoni - can't comment.


----------



## SQToyota (May 14, 2015)

Coppertone said:


> That's funny as I own Brax amps and Sinfoni mids lol...


Nice setup got the tweets? Id get sinfoni tweets for sure either way you go


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

idk how anyone can say no to brax. well actually depends on which models specifically


----------



## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> idk how anyone can say no to brax. well actually depends on which models specifically


Arc is two for the price of one and hand made in the USA.


----------



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

You know I think you should give me your Brax!


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

AVIDEDTR said:


> Arc is two for the price of one and hand made in the USA.


this is a good choice too. but idk if id put them in the same boat as brax or sinfoni. either way, im sure both will make no noticeable difference from your helix amps unless its more power


----------



## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> this is a good choice too. but idk if id put them in the same boat as brax or sinfoni. either way, im sure both will make no noticeable difference from your helix amps unless its more power


Yes, sir, you are correct.


----------



## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> this is a good choice too. but idk if id put them in the same boat as brax or sinfoni. either way, im sure both will make no noticeable difference from your helix amps unless its more power


4 years ago, a well seasoned SQ competitor swapped out a well known amplifier company for a pair of Arc Audio 4200 SE's modded. We made sure AC voltage was matched before and after and the results were stunning. His car went from scoring high 220's to high 230's. At finals, one of the judges from the UK judges said it was the most real life sound car he has ever heard. Sadly, the car was sold off and parted out.

System was two 4200's, Alpine 9861, H701, Dayton Sub in the dash an Hybrid Legatia speakers.

Anyways I'll stop hijacking this guys thread.

best of luck.


----------



## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

AVIDEDTR said:


> 4 years ago, a well seasoned SQ competitor swapped out a well known amplifier company for a pair of Arc Audio 4200 SE's modded. We made sure AC voltage was matched before and after and the results were stunning. His car went from scoring high 220's to high 230's. At finals, one of the judges from the UK judges said it was the most real life sound car he has ever heard. Sadly, the car was sold off and parted out.
> 
> System was two 4200's, Alpine 9861, H701, Dayton Sub in the dash an Hybrid Legatia speakers.
> 
> ...


As long as the judge are still a human being, he will be subjected to personal subjective view. From 220 to 230 is not much.
This is like I like to eat cream cheese very much, give me a blue cheese I will say it is rubbish.


----------



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

I was a die hard arc user for a very long time! Se2300s modded (4 of them) loved them, used arc in 99% of my customers cars. and the reason I no longer run arc is between me and arc audio


----------



## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

kyheng said:


> As long as the judge are still a human being, he will be subjected to personal subjective view. From 220 to 230 is not much.
> This is like I like to eat cream cheese very much, give me a blue cheese I will say it is rubbish.


when you dont touch the processor at all post amp swap. thats a huge improvement.


----------



## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

As far as I know, Brax's price tag are higher, so not much people own it which translate to 
lesser reviews. 
Best is still listen to how it perform would be the best bet.


----------



## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

Um.. Sinfoni amps are amazing and so are their components. Sold my Brax Graphics to go Sinfoni amps, just upgraded to La Prima Sinfoni from the amplitudes and have a few available if there is any interest. 

The combined sound is amazing for me. Best I have heard to date.


----------



## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

AVIDEDTR said:


> when you dont touch the processor at all post amp swap. thats a huge improvement.


Well, different brand will have different sound signature.
Using a normal capacitor at output stage won't sound the same as using MKP/MKT capacitor:laugh:


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Sinfoni


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

AVIDEDTR said:


> I switched from Helix A2(sub), A4(midbass), A6(mids/tweets) to two Arc Audio SE 4200s(modded) one per side. Results staging/imaging improved, 5% warmer, better control of the speakers, especially midrange control.
> 
> Sinfoni - can't comment.


 seriously, staging/imaging improved 5%?? not 6% or 60%?

Sorry but such claim makes it pointless.
how is Arc has been modded? details please.
"information" like this makes disservice to true audiophile community.Sorry dude.
Here is one example, I took chinese made POS tube amp, threw away 97% or parts and used NOS american and russian parts with Japanese transformers, result was amazing but I wouldn`t put quantitative quote behind it. 
So is that still POS chinese amp or it`s mine? 
I`ve seen quiet a few modified electronics claiming to be night and day difference, truth to be told for person who modified that it`s absolutely correct, for user who spent all those money as well, in reality not so much.
Sorry for the rant it was not directed on you, just a general observation on forum wide practice of strange information.


----------



## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

not going to get into a pissing match...we heard what we heard and this is twice now.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

AVIDEDTR said:


> not going to get into a pissing match...we heard what we heard and this is twice now.


Who is participating in pissing match? that was legitimate question hidden inside of my rant. I`ve heard you, you`ve heard 5% improvement, gotcha!


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Look, switching from my JLs to Mosconi I heard a 7.2% increase in detail and a 9.4% in output yet a 1.2% cut in bass output but with 2mm more motor control all while 60% drunk testing it.


Great, enough of that crap. Brax makes killer amps Sinfoni make killer amps. This is what i hear from Brax owners "Its so clean and I really like the amp, well worth the money." Sinfoni owners (that have had Brax and some that havent and some that install both every day say this about Sinfoni "They are absolutely spectacular. Nothing like them and they are just beautiful to look at. Never liked an amp so much."

Should my Mosconis ever go up for sale I am going Sinfoni. I had the choice of Brax or Mosconi for similar prices and chose Mosconi. So far I am quite pleased with my purchase.


----------



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

No need for hostility. Im 99.9% sure I'm running the brax components. I just want to know why everyone is on the sinfoni band wagon. And jumping ship.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Because they really are something special. Pure music. Thats what they are about. I will play with the amps soon but the components are breathtaking.


----------



## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

supertrav2 said:


> No need for hostility. Im 99.9% sure I'm running the brax components. I just want to know why everyone is on the sinfoni band wagon. And jumping ship.


 Because it`s today`s forum boner. I noticed great deal of engineering and craftsmanship in both brands.


----------



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

I like a very clinical sound, I play guitar and I've done quite a bit of recording, I know what Brad paisleys cook telly sounds like through a z wreck and a vintage vox ac 30. Now my issue with Italian amps is the fact they always seem to be a bit warm. I don't like that, I like the more clinical sound of say a zapco c2k. That's why I didnt like my mosconis.


----------



## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

No band wagons here. Nothing to do with any of those cliche's. True and honest great sound like none I have expierienced. Just giving my .02 I benefit none from what you, him or the next guy do but I can confidently say I tested side by side several high end brands and the choice "for me" was clear. My search is over. Many many years and countless $'s spent to hear for myself the differences and it has paid off.

Good luck.


----------



## mrpeabody (May 26, 2010)

supertrav2 said:


> Now my issue with Italian amps is the fact they always seem to be a bit warm.


Try throwing some ice on them.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Italian ice


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

deeppinkdiver said:


> No band wagons here. Nothing to do with any of those cliche's. True and honest great sound like none I have expierienced. Just giving my .02 I benefit none from what you, him or the next guy do but I can confidently say I tested side by side several high end brands and the choice "for me" was clear. My search is over. Many many years and countless $'s spent to hear for myself the differences and it has paid off.
> 
> Good luck.


you should lend one for my test


----------



## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

AVIDEDTR said:


> not going to get into a pissing match...we heard what we heard and this is twice now.


sorry that was a tyoo... four times
ive experimented and listened to many amps. Brax are top top gear. But the price tag doesnt do more than a SE.
Ive heard steve cooks truck with C2Ks and BRAX. granted the speakers are differnet. But if he's happy, then you know they're good. I cant justify the cost.


----------



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cost wasn't part of my question. And I not worried about that aspect. C2ks we're great amps, se, dc, xxk,cxl, all great but not the topic of discussion. 
BRAX AND SINFONI. LET'S FOCUS ON THESE 2 COMPANIES. THANKS


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

SINFONI!!!!


----------



## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

The 60.1hd Class A Sinfoni amps (older stule) I had running my components made a huge difference in sound, enormous actually. I was using a pair of the 45.2 Amplitudes prior to the HD amps coming in and was already blown away. All of the Amplitude amps are small and beautiful, very very heavy in weight and thin compared to most. Hook ups are simple and straight forward. No bells or whitles just amplifiers. I made the choice to upgrade yet again to Sinfoni's newest line of amps to replace my some of my amplitudes (definitely keeping and running the 4 class A still) going into my truck. Knowing Ill be doing a build in another car sometime in the near future I will also be using Sinfoni amps in it. Ive debatted on letting go of a few of my Amplitudes to offset the cost of the La Prima amp purchases but I know from expierience I will not get the power, dynamics and warmth in another brand name amp anywhere near what the sale price of the Amplitudes would bring so it is very tough for me to let them go (or decide to and commit to do so).


----------



## deeppinkdiver (Feb 4, 2011)

Niebur3 said:


> SINFONI!!!!




Jerry, a man of few words making a great point once again.


----------



## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

supertrav2 said:


> Cost wasn't part of my question. And I not worried about that aspect. C2ks we're great amps, se, dc, xxk,cxl, all great but not the topic of discussion.
> BRAX AND SINFONI. LET'S FOCUS ON THESE 2 COMPANIES. THANKS


SINFONI ftw. only because of this


----------



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

The grave' is what I'm interested in. And the presto. Because the up coming purchase is looking like a mx2 and mx4. So the presto and grave is what I would like info on. And the line above them won't fit in the space. I have to work with due to the cooling fins.
And I like the massive power available from the Brax amps


----------



## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

supertrav2 said:


> The grave' is what I'm interested in. And the presto. Because the up coming purchase is looking like a mx2 and mx4. So the presto and grave is what I would like info on. And the line above them won't fit in the space. I have to work with due to the cooling fins.
> And I like the massive power available from the Brax amps


I have a Grave and (2) Presto Ad-Libs and I absolutely love them. Changed from tons of ARC SE power (2300se, 4200se and (2) 2075se), yet it seems I have more power now. Plus the noise floor is just non-existent. 

I have Sinfoni, Tru Technology and ARC SE on my demo board all direct connect and level matched and the main thing I noticed was the stage. It was about 2 feet higher, more focused and more depth. 

I really like the Sinfoni amps. If you need a quote let me know and I can either help you or send you to a dealer in your area.


----------



## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

Check back in two years when everyone hates sinfoni and found the new hotness


----------



## invecs (Jul 30, 2005)

The best car I've heard uses Brax 3way components on Sinfoni Amplitude amps.

I'll be doing the same soon.

On amps alone, I can't listen to Brax...seems too sterile/cold. I prefer Sinfoni.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

invecs said:


> The best car I've heard uses Brax 3way components on Sinfoni Amplitude amps.
> 
> I'll be doing the same soon.
> 
> On amps alone, I can't listen to Brax...seems too sterile/cold. I prefer Sinfoni.


See, the second part of you reply is the stuff I don't get. That makes literally no sense. Do you not have a dsp to go along with the thousands of dollars in other equipment?

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Brax is the Ivory soap, 99.44% pure. You know Ivory when you smell it, no problem.

Sinfoni is the Lever Bros. 2000. There's some added stuff like moisture-retention and skin conditioners, but it's going to rinse clean too, it's pretty good stuff...

and if you wanted, you could do a Brax/Ivory/body application, and a Sinfoni/Lever bros./face application.

or mix and match it up, you find tweeters sound good on Brax? Well wash your groin with the Lever but leave your ass crack for Ivory, haha..


----------



## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Such bull ****


----------



## el_bob-o (Nov 8, 2008)

What about those of us with sensitive skin who need something less abrasive? Do the brands in question make an amp that's right for me?



cajunner said:


> Brax is the Ivory soap, 99.44% pure. You know Ivory when you smell it, no problem.
> 
> Sinfoni is the Lever Bros. 2000. There's some added stuff like moisture-retention and skin conditioners, but it's going to rinse clean too, it's pretty good stuff...
> 
> ...


----------



## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

i'll take the madman...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxck4zts1FA


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Brax and Sinfoni are both excellent brands. It's hard to say which is truly "better."
I think it really depends on the power requirements for your setup.

My car is running horns that don't need a lot of power. Running a Brax MX4 on them would have been overkill. The Sinfoni Prestigio was a much better fit, with 65W x 2 @ 4 ohms. The horns are 8 ohms, so it's a really good match.

I'm running 2 x Presto amps, each bridged onto a single midbass driver. The difference in how my midbass are performing with those amps is night and day. I went from 140W to 250W.

I really could not be happier with the Sinfoni amps. They perform beautifully and look like works of art. They are also very small and compact. The Presto and Grave are not much larger than many Class D amps out there. The Brax MX4 is quite large, so if you have any space constraints that might also be a factor.


----------



## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

@supertrav2, that is a very tough decision you have to make lol. 

I have never heard Sinfoni speakers or amps before so I can not comment on them from a personal experience. However, the reviews that they receive from well regarded and respected members, leads me to believe they really are good.

As for Brax, I can comment and give you "MY OPINION." At the end of the day that's what it is.  I am thrilled with the Brax M3CPP speaker set and the MX4 amp. Even untuned, the system is very enjoyable. The sound is ever so present and clear. The MX4 amp is exactly what I was looking for, raw power and uncolored sound. Hopefully in a month or so I can give a more in depth review once I get a quality tune. I have no regrets for any of the Brax pieces.

At the end of the day, no matter which components you choose you owe it to yourself to get a quality tune. But from a pure gear standpoint I don't think you can go wrong with either brand. 

*Is there a particular sound you are going after? Are there any space restrictions? What are some more particulars that satisfy your ears?


----------



## Makky (Nov 15, 2014)

I just wanted to pop in and say thanks to all those providing their ownership feedback whether it be Sinfoni or Brax. 
It's very useful information for someone like me who wishes to upgrade to one of these 'elite' amplifiers some time in the future.

Hoping for some more Mosconi feedback as well : P.


----------



## soccerguru607 (Nov 4, 2009)

I am still running Sinfoni Amplitude for mids/high (Audison K6 comp. + pioneer stage 4 2.7") after a year and half. I was addicted since the first time I heard Sinfoni. Anyone who knows me knows the amount of amps I have gone through. Still my first choice. I had Brax Graphic, excellent SQ in my point of view with BB opamps...Had brand new MX4/MX2 just can't break plastic seal so I did not listen to these.


----------



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

@#1BigMike, I like a more true to the source sound. i like it dry from the amps and speakers. the color should come from the mix of the recorded artist. I play in guitar record and gig, I know what i sound like, and for me tuning a car is like dialing in a mesa boogie Mk4, its slow and takes time. but you can hear when you have too much bass and it muddies up, or when you have to much treble and it gets shrill. 
I love the dry attack and timbre of a rim shot and its decay in an open room. the sustain of Stevie's Strat. the big open sound of John Bonham's Ludwig Vistalite Plexi kit on the song remains the same. the subtle sounds of a martin d35, i know what most of these sound like in live and studio settings, and thats how i want it to sound in my car. i love music, and i want what is going to get me the closest to what i hear in my head. when i hit that D minor and my pick glides gently over the strings of my grandpa's 52 Gibson, Thats what i want to hear! the magic and miracle Of EMOTION. Exactly how i heard it while i was playing it. 
sorry for the long winded post but thats me in a nut shell.


----------



## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

That's the information we needed my friend. I am so glad you know how to tune. 

I am much like you and was looking for the same type of sound signature. 

After that detailed explanation of what you need from your system, I am sure the Sinfoni guys would agree, it SOUNDS like you need a Brax MX4 and MX2 in your life! 

JK! Either way I think your system is going to be super nice. What ever you decide, you have to be sure to come back and update this thread with your decisions and impressions.

I am liking the reviews that are coming. This is Such a good forum!


----------



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

I agree, this is a great forum! I've never been hung up on one brand or company. I've have had some great systems and Not so great systems. tuning is an art. and in the start of my Music and Audio career I was not so humble, I thought I Knew it all. my guitar tone was horrible and so was the stereo in my car at that time. but i was a very young know it all teenager. but a good sound engineer sat down with me in the studio when I was 15 and said look, I dont know it all when it comes to sound but, I know more than some hot shot 15 yr old guitar player when it comes to sound. so over the next couple of years i hung out at the studio ALOT. and honed my ears on things to listen too. 

Everything that I was learning in that studio, I was turning straig around and applying it to my truck stereo. and my car stereo. I'm nothing special, and i dont know anything more than the next guy but i can tell you what i do and dont like in a stereo. 
and thats why i Am giving the helix stuff to my Wife. and i am upgrading to brax. because i really like the german made audio equipment. 
I am a dealer for helix/brax, and was contemplating picking up Sinfoni.
I have nothing but great things to say about the helix/match product.


----------



## #1BigMike (Aug 17, 2014)

Hmmm.... That's pretty cool. Are you able to get any of the gear in for audition purposes first? As soon as @deeppinkdiver gets his sinfoni install done, I am going to have listen to it (closest member to me).


----------



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

you know to be honest, I have never asked to do an audition of any of the stuff i have used i bought it, used it, liked it, kept it and brought it to my shop and sold it. hint why i never have had audison or hertz.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Really fact of the matter is Brax, Mosconi, Sinfoni, Zapco LE.... you will have a winner in any of them. They are all well built and seem to exceed any of their specs. I think my Mosconi has a lower S/N rating than my JLs had yet it has no hiss between tracks and the JLs did.
People I trust on here and get to pay with the big toys all the time are switching over slowly to Sinfoni so that tells me a little something. That being said all of the four brands I listed are always in the winningest cars.


----------



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

well, i made my choice i went brax. 2 mx2 and an mx4, 
but, i will not be installing them as of yet. they are being saved for a very special build that will be happening next year some time! Audi S3 is what they will be going in. 

As for now i am using some of my old school car audio gear.
My favorite car that i drive on the daily is my MK4 GTI.
it will be using my favorite old amps ppi 2300m, 2200m, and 2150m on my brax 3ways. helix dsp pro and helix spxl1000 on a spxl12


----------



## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

AVIDEDTR said:


> SINFONI ftw. only because of this


I'm sure the Sinfoni amps are excellent products but the reason that car has all those trophies is because of

owners tuning skills

quantity and quality of treatment in the car

quality of speakers

quality of amps

peace


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

I am driving a brand new A3 right now and keep thinking how nice it would be to do a nice DSP and quality component system in it. The factory unit integrates so nice that a good processor and speakers/amps would be really great.


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

LaserSVT said:


> I am driving a brand new A3 right now and keep thinking how nice it would be to do a nice DSP and quality component system in it. The factory unit integrates so nice that a good processor and speakers/amps would be really great.



Mobridge?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

LaserSVT said:


> I am driving a brand new A3 right now and keep thinking how nice it would be to do a nice DSP and quality component system in it. The factory unit integrates so nice that a good processor and speakers/amps would be really great.


Pictures of the dash and center console.


----------



## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Coppertone said:


> Pictures of the dash and center console.


Here ya go. Will also give the OP some ideas. 

And yes. Its over 100* in freakin October.


----------



## 58458 (Apr 30, 2012)

I love the vag cars. The s3 was my pick. It was a hard choice because I wanted a golf r, but the sedan is what the wife likes. She hates my mk4 golf but loves my gli. But she drives a 2014 dodge dart.


----------

