# Unique System & Installation - 8th Gen. Civic EX Coupe



## less (Nov 30, 2006)

*NOTE: 25 photo 3 PAGE SUMMARY OF 5 YEARS OF WORK, PLAY AND TINKERING!*

It's finally what I'll call done! Years of work (all by my rookie hands!) - thousands of dollars invested & hundreds of products tested in the process. Although the end result isn't as perfect as the many great installations here, I'm quite proud of the result. 

I'm posting this now because unemployment has me close to selling things off, so this is my way of documenting the work and preserving the memories... and hopefully inspiring some of the people who've inspired me along the way! The pics over the next 3 pages show the end results, skipping all the things I've tried along the way - including: 



Head Unitless Digital Audio and even HD video using up to 500gb HDD portable media players although I also tried several top h/u systems: W200/h701, DRZ9255, P880, Audison Bit One and more


40ish drivers: Woofers - Morel 9, Focal Utopia, Rainbow Plat & more - Mids - Scan 12ms - Tweeters - Hiquphon OW1f, Scan Air Circ, Illuminators, old F-1 - Subs: ID Max and JBL GTI 12"


Many custom speaker mounts: Custom fiberglass pods, Wooden baffles to house 9" door drivers, Apillar mounts, MDF/Glass/Sand fiberglass composite sub enclosures


Various battery/wiring options: Big 3, Relay boards, Dual battery and more

Here is how its ended up... 

*THE SUBJECT: CIVIC COUPE EX - 2006*








*DAMPING/DEADENING*
*CABIN FLOOR/FIREWALL:* Main cabin has 2-3 layers of Raammat BXT - covered by: 1 layer of ensolite and 1 layer of 3/8" RV soundproofing (not pictured). I did most of this before some of the new superior damping methods became available - but the overall level or road noise has decreased an AMAZING amount regardless!















*DOORS:* The door was sealed with a plexiglass panel and silicone - 1-2 layers Dynamat (Supreme?), 2-3 layers of ensolite (note: I'll replace this with a current shot - this one is not final)









*TRUNK: I was fortunate enough to win a trunk pack of Second Skin's Damplifier Pro through DIYMA - and its the real McCoy. *








*CONSTRUCTION*

*SPEAKER MOUNTS: MIDBASS* - The civic baffle has the driver buried 3" behind a barely perforated thick plastic baffle & couldn't accommodate the 9"ish Morel MW 265 I wanted to use... so I changed it up a bit! Cut from 6 - 3/4 layers of MDF, and angled slightly back and up, these heavy buggers are bolted in 6 spots and sealed to the door using raammat material. Large gaps were filled with spray foam and each piece was coated with fiberglass resin for durability. Topped with upholstrey fabric, the outer baffle is a single 3/4" sheet seperately bolted with 6 t-nuts to allow for easy removal and driver change/replacement. (A big project to perfect)








*SPEAKER MOUNTS:* *MID/TWEETER PODS* - These were designed to allow the drivers to fit as close to the outer edges of the cabin as possible. The pod mounts are easily adjustable and the drivers are easily replaceable if needed. One try of Scan 12ms and I was sold... although I settled on the Illum tweeters for size, the Hiquphons were wonderful too. I tried these on the pillars for a bit, but they simply sound better and build a better stage from down below. They're also more stealthy than the pictures imply. 





















(END PAGE ONE - CONTINUED)


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

*SPEAKER MOUNTS: SUBS* - Why I had to fall in love with the 11" deep JBL sub, I don't know, but it was he!! to fit in my trunk!! This enclosure was a mess to make and took literally a hundred + hours (rookie issues), but it fits, looks and works great and might be my single best piece. Double 3/4" mdf baffle and base, braced internally, many layers of glass, fill sand and resin, topped with rubberized rockerpanel coating... 















*AMP/PROCESSOR SHROUD - TRUNK*: This is a daily driver... so I'm not tossing the spare for anyone! Instead, I replaced the foam and stock cover with a layer of plywood, carpeted it, built braces into the spare well and set it up for easy removal in an emergency. For a topper, I built a sideless shroud with windows for viewing the pretty lights, some subtle LED lighting (yeah blue - but I had no other options). I dyed the trunk lining black, used black carpet and topped the shroud with black vinyl. For those days when I actually want to USE my trunk, I made a fitted black rubber cover to keep the vinyl in good shape. 















*FINISHED PRODUCT*

*DIE HARD PLATINUM - 1/0 - BIG 3+:* Went through a Honda 5 yr battery once a year until Big 3 - the DH Platinum has 4 yr free replacement and 4 yr additional warranty... and just cranks out the power! Great battery.







*CANARE SIGNAL CABLE - VIABLUE RCA's - BELKIN PURE AV COAX - SYMBILINK:* Straight coax digital to the trunk for audio and some video, aux/ipod and other video analog. Canare quad is wonderful and durable and the Viablue (high percentage copper alloy) locking rca's were a closeout steal! Short analog runs - well removed from power sources - Can you say zero noise?








*KICK PODS - SCAN 12M and 3/4 ILLUMINATORS & DOOR BAFFLE - MOREL MW265:* best tonal balance and most musical low end I've ever achieved with a nicely centered stage. It all came together but only after a lot of work.








*UPHOLSTREY:* I just hated all the plastic in the doors... I used matching quilted upholstrey fabric on: door panels, door baffles, center console, remote mount and the monitor baffle. No fuzzy dice in the future though... too close already!














(END PAGE TWO - CONTINUED)


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

*MEDIA PLAYER:* Hated digging for CDs to hear 1 song - Ipod transfers used to suck and limited size. Decided to lead this time, so I set up a system centered on the Sarotech DVP260 media player and a 500gb hdd. It outputs either coax or optical for the audio and I'm using standard RCAs for the video. For easy removal, I created a quick release, slide-in system and threw in a fan to cool things down. Using only lossless wav files... sounds incredible! One of my favorite investments... but took some serious work to get installed and set up conveniently!








*SYSTEM CONTROL CENTER:* I finally decided to go for convenience and safety over stealth... couldn't have both. The entire system is controlled from this lil bugger and it sits right near my arm's natural resting spot. Audio/Video- playlist/folder/random/pause and much more in one easily memorized remote. It even allows you to go to a specific time in any movie you are watching (e.g., 1:14:06). I rarely need to look down...







*HEAD UNIT:* Obsolete - had one but didn't use it! :laugh:


*VGA MONITOR W/ TOUCH SCREEN:* The standard hideaway 7" computer monitor that doubles as the main control and video screen. I may go back to the indash double din at some point, but this set up reduces glare and offers flexibility. This is the menu selection screen of the media player:







Custom background displayed when playing music: 








*TRUNK ELECTRICAL PANEL/BATTERY:* Push the Bit One Remote button and the simple relay board makes sure the right power goes to the right places and everything is protected by an easily replaceable fuse. The Stinger in the trunk maybe be overkill, but no dimming and its faster than standard batteries in releasing power to the amps...








*FINAL TRUNK SETUP: BIT ONE - MCINTOSH MC440M - ZAPCO REFERENCE 750 - JBL GTi 12"* I'll admit that I never really used any mid-range amps-going straight from Alpine basics to the McIntosh/Zapco combo, but still! I just love the Big Macintosh's build quality, appearance and excellent performance. There is a reason that so few companies amps at 15+ years are still selling on ebay for a pretty penny. The Zapco also has plenty of output power (bridged to 750) to drive the single JBL GTi 12. I'm not the only fan of this JBL sub series... in fact, its one of those rare products that I've never seen a negative comment on - anywhere! The Bit One... well, there are several great options to fill its role, but its well laid out, sounds great and is quite attractive as well. 







w/fan







at night - and yes, another blue system. I blame McIntosh and Audison!







Sorry this is so long, but hopefully it was worth the look! Thanks to all who helped me bring this thing to a thundering conclusion - you guys rock! 

*Less - aka - Jim*


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

Looks good bro 

How does it sound???

How do you like having the mid and tweet in the kick panels?


I have my mids in kicks but tweets in sail panel and it seems to work best for my car...


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## khanhfat (Feb 4, 2008)

Very nice install  love the idea of the media player connected to touch screen.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

[email protected] nice work. I think i gathered a few ideas for my upcoming install from this


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## douggiestyle (Apr 29, 2008)

inspirational. i bet that was a fun 5 years. what's next?


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

NICE NICE NICE! I have to know though, since I'm looking at something similar, do you have some better build pics on the sub enclosure? What about specs? cubic feet? Stuff like that. What do you think about the mid range and tweeters in the kicks? 

Very very nice build! You did a great job!


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## derickveliz (May 15, 2009)

Looks good!

I hope I'm not going to spend another 4 years in my install, mmm maybe?


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## Gas Is Expensive (Aug 26, 2008)

OK, I have an 8th gen Civic Hybrid and have deadened the entire car and my doors to no end and I STILL get some rattles from my door-mounted mids. How do you keep your doors from going ape **** with those bad mofos in there!?


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Hey all 

Thanks for the kind words. I forgot to mention that the monitor and touch screen connections extend from under the console, so I can whip out the laptop and use it for different things if I want. I've tried streetdeck and some other software along those lines but finances limited exploration there. If employment happens, I'll GPS that way at a minimum. I'm also just toying with the idea of taking the 14" dell laptop monitor I have sitting around and trying a silly idea I have about molding it into the head unit spot with bondo and such... realistically, 10" or so would seem as big as you'd want for a car, but maybe I could make this thing not look "overdone."

I had the hardest time accepting that no matter what - it always sounded best with all drivers in the kicks! It just seems so counter intuitive! Still, its just true - at least with the drivers I've been trying. I built the latest pods fully thinking I'd end up with them mounted on the pillars (hence the small illum tweeter when the HIQ and Air Circs sounded great). In the end though, kick mounting just had better staging formation and imaging, plus it just seemed tonally superior... full, rich and vibrant.

The system moved from the "sounds pretty good" stage to the "OMG I did something right that time!" stage when I added the first true mids (scan 12m). To me, it sounds remarkable - or I probably wouldn't have called it finished. I think the reasons it took so long were: 1. I'm a sucker for something new (rebuilt for the B1 when the DRZ sounded great), 2. kept trying pillar mounts. 3. I dreaded the sub enclosure job - it intimidated me... so having it turn out great just rocked! 4. I liked upgrading and rethought projects after they could have been done lol.

Rattles? Sorry, no rattles for me... guess I got lucky. I think that heavy and large baffle honestly helps braced the door though. Its bolted in at least 6 places and then the damping and foam fillers make sure it isn't a source of noise itself. Just wasn't a trouble for me...

Scoot - I'll add some shots on the sub and give a quick run trhough on what I did in the next post. Keep in mind, I might not be the guy to learn the RIGHT way to do this from though lol. I muddled my way through and got lucky with a nice result!

Less - aka Jim


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Ok bud a couple things for you. First one is I LOVE THE RCA's! Those look sweet! 

The Mid Range and Tweeters. You said you tried them up in the pillars and they didn't sound as good as the kicks? Did they just not blend as well, did they sound harsh, what was the difference between the two? Again with the pics, do you have pics of how you did the kicks? It almost looks plastic, like one of those pods you buy would can buy online. Sorry that wasn't an insult, I'm sure it blends real well with the interior. I'm just curious about your application, or how you went about it. 

Third, I also see that you have carpeted the pieces under the dash, or at least that's what it appears like to me. What was the purpose of that? Just to dress it up, to prevent reflection, what? Just curious about this. BTW, I HATE THAT PANEL! Mine for some reason falls off all the time. I think the clips are bad. Moving on! 

BTW, it look like someone could use a new computer chair for christmas! 

Fourth, how does the Sarotech DVP260 media player integrate into the system. I'm very interested in this. I have an ipod touch, but i don't really care about using that. What I really want is something to put a ton of movies on. I drive in my car daily, and I have my girls in my car for about 2 hours a day. I have monitors in the headrests and if I had something to have all or most of my movies for them then I don't have to have multiple dvd's in my car all the time. I've tried burning them onto my ipod but it never works out. Right now the audio and video is off. Meaning the people talk and about 1.5 seconds after they say something on the screen the audio comes out. Anyway, I'd love to get your input and suggestions on this media player.

Lastly, your sub! I think mainly I'm curious of what your airspace is for that. How much does it protrude into your trunk space etc.?

Sorry this is lastly, I love the electrical panel idea mainly cause I do alot of that in my builds. I think, however, you could do yourself a favor in cleaning it up a bit by using one of these: 








They also have a 6 port one, but it just cleans things up a bit, uses one main power source, and it was only like 35.00. So for what you get, seems pretty reasonable. They also have a dual, power and ground, one as well. Here's a link: Fuse Blocks & Fuses - Blue Sea Systems 

I think I got everything covered, LOL. Overall, very nice work!


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## GSlider (Jun 11, 2009)

Very nice turnout. Love the placement of the sub and the amp rack.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks again all. It's really nice to finally feel like I"m done and to have it sound so good. I'd be lying if I didn't say it was nice to access all my music/video so easily too though - haha. When will the major players learn to just build hard drives into their hu/monitors? Won't that just be nice?

Scoot - rather than post a tutorial like I just had posted, I'll find another way to try and answer your question on that. I need to get applying for work now though... so more later. 

Jim


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

*PODS - PILLAR VS KICK: * (Editted for easier reading)

*EARLY TESTS: *
One of my first first longer term speaker sets was a set Rainbow Profis and I used various mounts on the Apillars for about a year. In the end, I couldn't get them tbe strident edge out of them no matter what I did (xover - eq - angling - dash mats - etc) and ultimately, thats why I moved to something new. 

Thinking it was probably the driver, I tried a variety of other tweeters and they all suffered the same issues. Somewhere during this process, I met a friend/mentor who I trusted enough to try things that didn't make sense to me - namely, Kick mounting! Thank God as my sound began to improve with each new effort. Just for kicks... here are some shots of past installations:​An early tweeter mount...


Focal K2's mounted to door - due to terrible design, the door card messed with the midwoofers output terribly... so I built the large wooden baffles in my later installations


The first larger baffle with a great Focal Utopia 7 and Hiquphon OW1s in a hokey mount - velcroed to floor with a grill - actually sounded good


Fiberglass kick enclosure for 12m and Air Circ (excellent sound - stage not as wide as current - close 2nd place sound...
​ 
*LAST TRY:*
Still, I was stuck thinking that having drivers up at shoulder level was the thing... after all, you don't see many people with floor mounted tweeters in the home environment now do you!? In a final effort to get the most out of my system, I decided to build pods, the details of which are below.

After several attempts at mounting them on the pillars, I went back to the kicks and they simply sound better in almost every way. The clearest reasons are stage width and the richer, fuller sound that resulted from the move. Up top, the drivers are significantly closer together so its natural that the stage width is differnt... but its more pronounced than you'd think. Plus the glass up top reflects higher frequencies more than the absorptive material down below.​
*FINAL RESULTS:*
My stage width is remarkable - height is good too. The midrange is just full and rich, and the low end is very musical... sounding like instruments instead of just a punching sound like I've heard in so many of my systems. The high end sparkles and is airy but its eq'd a bit... overall though, I use minimal eq correction. I apologize that my description of the sonic comparisons aren't very revealing... but the difference is very noticable and I've totally given up on what seems like the 'logical' approach of mounting on pillars for now.​
*UNDER DASH COVERS:*
Yeah, I did carpet the plastic panels down below. I don't honestly know that it makes any difference, but it does look a little nicer and I thought it wouldn't hurt perhaps stopping some vibrations and reflections. IIRC there is ensolite underneath the carpet. One of mine has a broken clip now too - from someone kicking it accidentally. I think I'm going to drill a hole and use a wire tie in a hidden spot to get it back in place long term.​
*POD BUILD INFO:*

Here is another shot of the pods that might give you a better prespective:


DESIGN: I built the pods as small as possible to allow for maximum closeness to sides of vehicle and to minimize the amount of extraneous noise generated by the baffle/enclosure - maximizing the speakers output instead. My design concept included: MDF - extremely minimal baffle size/material - damping if possible - rounded wherever possible with shallowest angle easily achieved - minimal depth - and solid and versatile mounting posts. 

BUILD: From 3/4' MDF, I cut the smallest baffle I could - putting the mid and tweeter as close as possible. The baffle was routed, the mid hole was chamfered for max air flow and t-nuts glued in place for driver mounting. Then, I cut, stacked and glued baffle-shaped "rings" of mdf until the sides were at the right depth. I promised not to mention more about the remaining design, aside from saying its generally a sealed design. 

DETAILS: They're are attached to the sidewall of my kick area using fairly standard swivel mounts like those used for home theater surround speakers. The finish is the same rubberized rocker panel coating - it looks like textured bedliner. The grills are a wire trash can pounted into an mdf ring, then glued, painted and velcro'd into place.​
Less


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Wow, ok. Great review and opinions. THank you


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

scooter99 said:


> how does the Sarotech DVP260 media player integrate into the system. I'm very interested in this.
> 
> Lastly, your sub! I think mainly I'm curious of what your airspace is for that. How much does it protrude into your trunk space etc.?
> 
> ...


Um, yeah, busted on the chair. I actually have one that is newer, but this one just fits me too well  Since I'm so long winded (erm, thorough!), I'll break format this for easier reading lol. 

*FUSE BLOCK*First, I love that fuse block's look man, but I'm not sure it'd do what I need for a couple reasons. 1. When I first looked, I thought it'd save a lot of space, but I'd still need to mount - jumpers from the relays to the outputs, the relay itself and grounds, right? (I now see they have a dual model with grounds - Nice!) 2. can you use low amperage and slow blow fuses on the board? Looks like car fuses and I use mostly under 5 amp fuses for lighting, the Bit One, the remote turn ons and such. Still, I'd love to use something more attractive... I was pretty broke at the time and picked this one up used for like $3 then polished the brass up lol.​
*MEDIA PLAYER*
The Sarotech could be terrific for you actually. Its easy to connect, but I like having a nice permanent slide mount installation for easy removal. Its not required though. From its outputs: one RCA runs to the dash for video, one digital and one analog audio to the trunk for audio (Digital for full time music and most movies - Analog for those movies that have sound encoded outside the Bit One's parameters). My monitor stays set for the media players output 99% of the time, but can also be changed to monitor either my laptop or my ipods video out. The remote has an extension that I've mounted inside the remote holder and works well.

I'm sure you could easily integrate it so that it played to your headrest monitors and I'd bet you could rig it so they could each watch seperate shows and listen via headphone and only have to but the media players and headphones to try it out. For video only, the DVP 260X model is great! Stop at any time and it auto marks where you were... hit bookmark when you turn it on and it shows you the last 5 places you stopped. If you want detailed info, search the word Sarotech for my posts... there is complete information from me and others about their installation and use. After that, feel free to PM me and I'll answer any questions. Personally, I love it.​
*SUB INFO*
As for my sub, the JBL is 11" deep and made it so that I had to corner mount it instead of making one that was a nice little rectangle that ran along like the wheel well. IIRC JBL suggested 1.25cft and thats almost exactly the volume I ended up with. It sticks out about an inch beyond the edge of the panel that you lift to access your spare - at its deepest point. This shot from the back seat should show you how it fits in a bit better... and you can also see how the wiring is handled under the shroud...

​
*AUDISON SFC*
I also should through in that I had a working prototype of the Audison Signal Frequency Converter - the product they're selling for $200+ that converts all digital input signals to a standard that the B1 works well with and eliminates a slight hiss that occurs in some cases. Sadly, it worked a couple months and then decided it won't work until after the system's been on for 15 minutes... we'll see how it works out, but its sort of disappointing so far.
​Jimbo


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

GSlider said:


> Very nice turnout. Love the placement of the sub and the amp rack.


Thanks! I had the cheapo box for the sub for soooo long, solely because I was scared of messing up a custom enclosure. The spot was hard and that JBL is friggin deep! I've not seen many trunk installs that kept the spare intact and still allow nearly full use of the trunk when required. I gave up 2.5" of depth though.


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## s4turn (Jun 17, 2009)

very nice!
what x-over points and slopes are you using on the mids and tweeters? (scans)

Ill be using the mids and tweeters !


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

My xovers are 60/70 - 300ish - 5k. You can go lower with the mid but I prefer mine here. I'd like to try the new Scan mid for a couple reasons actually... have you thought about that??

Also, if you don't need the small size, consider the Hiquphon OW1 tweeters too... very fine detail, nicely airy, great dispersion and handmade goodness! I know a fair number of folks think its a better tweeter overall - but all speaker selections are subjective for the most part. Either way though, if you get the installation right, I can't imagine a result you would be unhappy with! Those drivers are certainly strong performers. (BTW - the Revelator cones are sensitive to even small amounts of water - don't wipe them with even a slightly damp cloth lol!)











Scoot, my bad on the fuse block deal! The one above uses the AGC fuses I'm currently using and they actually DO make 1amp car fuses (although not slow blow). By using a version with the ground strap, I could make it look a lot neater... although I'd still need to mount and fuse the relay itself somewhere near the block. 

Now if I can just get through this second interview... lol, wish me luck!


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## scooter99 (Dec 21, 2008)

Actually what you could do is what I did with my other install under the seat. Use a box. I used a small plastic box to house my relay in, you have wires going in but if you loom it or tech flex it it would clean it up and cost you minimal money at best. Matter of fact I may have an extra box and some extra flex if you need. Let me look and I'll let you know. Here's what I was talking about. 

Here's the picture. The wires you see in the foreground are the wires for my headrest monitors. Had to make sure they could separate to remove the seat. But the box in the middle is what I was talking about. The smaller of the three boxed behind the fuse holders. The relay is in there and the box hides the mess of wiring. You can't see the wiring between the three boxes but I drilled holes to enter into the middle box from the fuses and then through both side to the thinner boxes. It just hides them really well. The thinner boxes are big enough to put a couple barrier strips in and wire them up, but not tall enough for the relay. I could've forced the issue but it wouldn't have looked right. They use screws to hold the tops on them. 









Here's a picture of the covers off.









Again, these boxes are pretty cheap, like 5.00 - 8.00. I'll look and see if I have any left and if I do I can send it to you. Save you some mula!


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

VERY nice work on all aspects. And nice gear.

I have the 3" Founteks in the a-pillars right now, but would like to go to a kick install. Do you have any issues with getting enough SPL from a 4" mid down there while driving at highway speeds?

How far off-axis would you say your mid/tweet baffles are? Do you have any widescreen shots that show both doors & kicks simultaneously?


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Gas Is Expensive said:


> OK, I have an 8th gen Civic Hybrid and have deadened the entire car and my doors to no end and I STILL get some rattles from my door-mounted mids. How do you keep your doors from going ape **** with those bad mofos in there!?


It sems like I had rattles BEFORE I cut back the door card and allowed the drivers a more open path. While I certainly wouldn't advocate most people to cut their doors apart, there might be another solution. One "standard" 6.5 grill I tried fit perfectly into the groove that runs around the outer edge of the stock speaker grills. If you could figure out how to secure a grill there firmly, then cut out the stock grill, I think you'd go a long way to reducing the energy that gets trapped back there. Before doing this though, I'd take the door card off and see if the rattles you hear stop and see if the sound changes enough to warrant the work. If you haven't already done it, another suggestion would be to build a beefy MDF baffle and bolt it firmly in place (I've had good luck with brass hardware fwiw). Modeling clay or strips of butyl rubber can be pressed into very specific rattle locations too.



fish said:


> VERY nice work on all aspects. And nice gear.
> 
> I have the 3" Founteks in the a-pillars right now, but would like to go to a kick install. Do you have any issues with getting enough SPL from a 4" mid down there while driving at highway speeds?
> 
> How far off-axis would you say your mid/tweet baffles are? Do you have any widescreen shots that show both doors & kicks simultaneously?


It seems like I have all the volume I'd ever want... buy maybe someone would want more. I'm running each midrange from roughly 300 - 5k off one 50 watt channel from my McIntosh 440M and it seems at least as loud as any other installation I've done. 

I'd guess that the pods are roughly 20 degree's off-axis. They're set to cross above and slightly behind the stick shift iirc. Sorry, no photos that show the entire front stage atm.


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

amazing amount of work! and in the end the fact that you like it and it works for you is all that really counts! Props from downunder...


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

What I did is but the mid bass in doors. The mids in kick panels on axis to the driver and the tweeters are playing 8000hz off axis in the sail panels and my car scores well and sound really good ....

My car did not sound as good with A pillars also....


Great build bro


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Hey Mr. Stangbang,

Curious what mids you are using and if you are crossing them lp at 8khz to the tweeters in your sails? Oops, it looks like the mids are Focal BEs... yes? Also, what you do hp them at? I always wanted to try a set of those buggers, but I've never seen them for sale at any price I could honestly consider. 

I had a K2P set and really liked the mid, but the tweeter was either hit and sound absolutely incredible or miss and sound pretty hard. With that mid going up so high though, it probably makes a heck of a nice set up.

Sydmonster... getting me to like it was definitely the tough part lol! I'm a bit on the obsessive compulsive side like Scooter I guess, but it does have its advantages too!


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Sun Glare! The angle on the straight 2din installation is just terrible in the civic, no matter how nice of screen you have! A recent ticket forced me to remove my side window tint - making it even more bothersome! 

Solutions? I'm thinking about building a double din or maybe even a 10" monitor into the dash, but changing the angle, making it flexible like my current monitor, or building some sort of visor. Anyone seen any good custom jobs for in dash monitors, or any other tricks that help keep the screen highly visible? 

Assuming I either get a job sometime soon, I'd really like to try something creative. The fiberglass and bondo isn't too expensive and I have most of the supplies. 

Thoughts?


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## odj23 (Jul 13, 2010)

Dig the install, Less.

Scooter posted some of those black plastic hobby boxes... I've picked up one recently from PE to make into a relay casing... decently well built and cheap: PROJECT BOXES from Parts Express ship same day and come with 45 day money back guarantee. Free Shipping Available. Order free 10,000 product catalog.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Oddly, when I first built my relay board, it was in one of those boxes, but sadly it outgrew the thing - too many connections. Plus, I couldn't get the relay itself to stay in place... don't think it has a screw hole and glue didn't work really well. When springtime comes around, if I've found work (grrrrr!) I'll probably get excited about neatening up that part of the installation. I finished it up when I was short on bucks and had to skimp more than I'd have liked. 

I'm also toying with the idea of mounting my mids by building an angled wooden baffle that I'd mount to the metal of the kick panel, pulling it even further to the side and creating some sort of either sealed or ap vented "enclosure" into the metal area between the outer and inner metal skins. I'd go straight to the metal, but I'd be too far offaxis to work well. Every inch further you can get the mids to the sides, the stage seems to get several inches wider. 

I've been doing the audio book thing a lot lately though, as I think I've burned myself out on music for a bit. I do that now and then and take a break... still, even when burnt there are some times that music is the only thing out there that will sooth!

Thanks for the comments, suggestions and for stopping by my thread =)


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

less said:


> I had the hardest time accepting that no matter what - it always sounded best with all drivers in the kicks! It just seems so counter intuitive! Still, its just true - at least with the drivers I've been trying. I built the latest pods fully thinking I'd end up with them mounted on the pillars (hence the small illum tweeter when the HIQ and Air Circs sounded great). In the end though, kick mounting just had better staging formation and imaging, plus it just seemed tonally superior... full, rich and vibrant.


Odd. I have the exact opposite opinion of what speaker locations sound best (in the same car). I've tried tweeters close to the midbass and never really liked the sound. Moving the tweeters to the sails or a-pillars made all the difference. Stage height, detail in the upper frequencies... Even with the MS-8, the tweeters around the dash created the best stage for me. 

Just shows you that different people have different preferences. Everyone should try and experiment for themselves.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

True enough Rain. I've heard people talk about a person's system (good and bad), and then been surprised when I've thought different... but not too often. If you try it in one location and its way off, but then in another and its pretty close (prior to tweeking), then you're probably more likely to get best results in whichever location was naturally the easiest to get the sound you like.

After trying several locations on the pillars I just conceded to what seemed like the forces of nature... but might have been the forces of age on my old ears too lol.


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## jhmeg2 (Nov 6, 2009)

scooter99 said:


> Ok bud a couple things for you. First one is I LOVE THE RCA's! Those look sweet!
> 
> The Mid Range and Tweeters. You said you tried them up in the pillars and they didn't sound as good as the kicks? Did they just not blend as well, did they sound harsh, what was the difference between the two? Again with the pics, do you have pics of how you did the kicks? It almost looks plastic, like one of those pods you buy would can buy online. Sorry that wasn't an insult, I'm sure it blends real well with the interior. I'm just curious about your application, or how you went about it.
> 
> ...


Beautiful install and I am also curious as to the better sound from the kicks over the pillars, I have to remove my kicks and build pillars, mainly cause I was tired of people KICKING them, and I get bored easy, and wanted to try them up top. but anyhow, with the fuse pannel, this is also an option that I ues, and I like the fact that the delay can be set differently for each unit up to 8 seconds( on and off). 
DD5








or the DD10


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## jhmeg2 (Nov 6, 2009)

rain27 said:


> Odd. I have the exact opposite opinion of what speaker locations sound best (in the same car). I've tried tweeters close to the midbass and never really liked the sound. Moving the tweeters to the sails or a-pillars made all the difference. Stage height, detail in the upper frequencies... Even with the MS-8, the tweeters around the dash created the best stage for me.
> 
> *Just shows you that different people have different preferences. Everyone should try and experiment for themselves*.


This is the best thing I have ever heard!!! Briliant!!! You should be a sound judge, or on the rules and ethics commity. Or even better a real judge.

Well said:beerchug: P.S.I must barrow this statment of your's for my signature.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Lol - not much to say in response to that. I used to judge paintball events... but that was pretty simple - hit or not hit lol. Think I'll stick with that!

I think judges probably should have listened to enough vehicles and been around enough other judges so that they have a relatively uniform set of expectations to apply when evaluating systems. Those that don't agree with the majority are probably weeded out from future events so that competitors know the types of sound that are expected... generally. And of course, life is filled with exceptions.


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## The A Train (Jun 26, 2007)

heres a good thread with a million pics of a guy putting a 10in monitor in an 8th gen civic. "Portabuddy's Car-Puter w/10" screen, 200+ pics" - 8th Generation Honda Civic Forum also if its something you dont feel comfortable doing, i can get you contact info of a master fiberglasser


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## chtaylor71 (Sep 26, 2009)

Great Build...


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Lol - so much for final =) Treated myself to a nice little Pioneer AVH-4300DVD and its going to really make the dash look nice. I've also redesigned the DRC mount, removed the remote to a nice little cubby in the dash, moved the remote extension behind a grill in the dash. The combined effect should be a much less obtrusive appearance. 

I won't use the DVD much since the media player still rocks, but I did add the Audison SRC which I don't think is mentioned above either. I'll shoot up some new pics soon and share the results. If I get the time, I still have things I'd like to do to make the trunk a little lower profile and better looking too.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Thought I was done, then got a burst of speed this summer. Picked up a Pioneer DVD and redid the remotes up front, plus moved the media player to the trunk to eliminate any fan noise. Also redid the entire trunk - made an official cover that protects the system and shroud when I want to toss tools or the lawnmower back there...

Here's some shots:














































Note: My McIntosh amp was out for repairs, so I rewired the base rack and neatened a few things up. Oddly, switching to optical cured a problem I'd had for a long time, and the system sounds fantastic now as well as being 100% reliable. It used to cut out at time when the volume got loud and had something to do with the compatibility of the coax output on the media player with the Bit One.




























I"ll post up some interior pics when I get things cleaned up a bit. Its a bear finding time to post, but its always good to show others what you've come up with, so....

Thanks for looking - comments welcome!

Jim


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## getonerd (Jul 24, 2007)

done son you gave me so good ideas


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Glad to be inspirational but wouldn't mind knowing what you're thinking. This project had two simple sounding and yet hard to accomplish goals - doing it now might be easier, but it wasn't easy at all in the beginning:

1. No compromise performance without sacrificing my entire trunk or spare. This is my daily driver and it needed to be functional even though I planned to go 7 channel active.

2. Easy access to my complete music collection without ever having to dig through a stack of scratched up CDs again! I can get to most any song off from my 250gb hdd (almost all in lossless format) in about 5 seconds with little loss of driving concentration. Naturally, I wanted video capability and an ipod interface for audio books.

I'm still struggling to get it tuned to perfection, but that is just because I am so friggin fussy... but aside from that, it works great now. I can also drop the rear seats and slip a fitted from them over the amp shroud = when done in the trunk, I slip the sheet off, shake in the yard and beach sand etc. just aren't an issue.

Back to tuning... if I can just get it close to my home system, which seems to sound right at any volume with any music.

Jim


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

nice sub choice 

is it the power series of the gti?


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Hard to beat the GTI sub! I've never seen a single bad comment on here or elsewhere about them, and it came highly recommended from a trusted friend who's used many sub and won many competitions. It probably isn't the ultimate sub, but its a damn fine all around performer for sure. My previous ID Max 10 had no where near the deep bass output, although it probably transitioned a bit smoother. I couldn't believe the difference!

After hours of tuning, it looks like I might get better low end midrange response if I go back to my old fiberglass kick panels. The only reason I pulled them is that I screwed up the tweeter mount by putting it too high in the box, but now that I'm using a super small frame tweeter, I think I can mount them low enough to eliminate the trouble I had from it. Honestly, if I can get that figured out, I may have the full system I set out to build in the first place. 

Then again, I"m also toying with changing to another 7-9" bass driver for my door haha. I'm a driver nut and I just like trying new things from time to time. You have to be to sell both Hiquphon and Scan Air Circs lol... they're both incredible tweeters. 

Not sure if I listed it before, but just for kicks, here's a list of some of the drivers I've used in this car:

Woofers (1)
- Morel MW265 4ohm 8.75"

Midwoofs (10)
- Focal Utopia 7W2 & K2p 
- Rainbow Platinum - Profi paper and Profi Vanadium Mids
- Zapco Reference Mid/woofs
- ADS Original 6.5 mid & New version 6.5s
- Alpine type Rs
- Infinity Kappas (laughable but insanely efficient/loud)
Tweeters (9)
- Scan Illum 3/4 small frame (Current)
- Hiquphon OW1f (great but deep)
- Scan Air Circs (great but big)
- Zapco Reference (nice high end - airy)
- ADS Original (ADS is known for great tweeters...)
- ADS high end - aluminum framed (can't remember name but PCI or something)
- Rainbow Cal 26 silk - (nice but not revealing - muddy)
- Alpine Type R - not bad but no output
-Ininity Kappas - loud but painful to listen to at even low volumes... not a fan of metal domes I guess

True Mid (1)
Scan Revelator 4" - enough said... excellent if you can get a decent enclosure for them

SUBS - IDMAX 10 and JBL GTI as well as that Inifinity powered sub that I got at first just to see if I even enjoyed having a sub... that first infinity system just convinced me that I needed to spend more time and money lol... sent me on this journey! I sure wish I could have bought an all in one system like the Denon home theatre system that I bought for my house. Becuase of its Audessy systems, that system sounds excellent at all volumes and since it was removed from their line-up, I bought it for just $400 new in the box. Best sound deal I've ever gotten imho!

Enough blabbering...
Jim


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Well - I decided to try a new cabinet for my scan mids and also a Heil format tweeter - which sounds excellent so far (Airborne RT4001 and only $78). ...figured I'd share the nearly finished pic's. Doesn't it figure that the day I'm about to complete these, my good buddy offers me a pair of the Bowers and Wilkins tweeters from a set of 802s - which mount in a small pod on a stalk and seem perfect to attach to a small car-based cabinet! I was thinking about building a set of cabinets almost identical to these for a set of neo10s, so now I'll have something to pair with them... 

They aren't completely installed yet, but I am already pleased with the change in the midrange qualities. The dispersion on the tweeters doesn't seem to be an issue either with decent high end throughout the cabin. I'll know more once I get them dialed in a bit. I've been wanting to hear the 12ms in the perfect cabinet, so getting these tweeters gave me the excuse to start this project =) The only thing I'd have liked to have done is to round literally every side of the cabinet, but I didn't think to do this until I had the ovals already cut and decided not to start over from scratch... 

Design features:


Rounded cabinet - inside and out to help minimize defraction and standing wave issues
Leaded 3/4 baffle which weigh over 2lbs each to minimize cabinet vibration/noise
Recessed drivers (which sucks to do without a router jig!) for various reported benefits
Chamfered midrange mount to allow adequate airflow and minimize resistance
Damped and AP ported to simulate ideal cabinet volume with minimal actual space usage

*Completed front* - grills held by neo magnets and posts







*Nearly complete rear* - I tried to paint flat black, but contact cement from carpeted area wouldn't allow a smooth finish - so I"ll be carpetting the rest too









*Thumbs of some of the steps along the way*








-







-







-


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## Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX (Oct 24, 2007)

Still in Midland? 

I need to demo this sucker... and I actually have something demoable as well, just won't sound nearly as good.. lol..


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Still here and not looking forward to retuning at all =)

It'll be a bit - I'm either impatient, imtallented or both - but it always takes me a long time to get things sounding right. That may be why I go through so much gear trying to get the sound I really want I guess. Funny how my little Denon home system sounded great - right out of the box... too bad I can't find a solution like that for the car. Also too bad none of the autotune systems out there seem to realyl work. I'm anxious to hear what the new Audison system will do... and how well it'll do it.

It's getting nicer out though Aaron - aye? We really should get together before long.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Fiddled with the eq today... figured I'd share this. Too bad my ipod (played through the Pure I20 of course) was on "treble reduce" throughout the whole process!

With enough sculpting, you can make any line look straight... but even when shown in much tighter range I'm within a respectable range anyhow. Not that it really means anything, but still, it isn't a bad starting point. 










I also got my new Peerless XLS 8s that I've wanted to try forever, so I guess its back to the eqing board soon anyhow... just have fun reasons for doing it again! Anyone wanting a set should give me a holler - I bought six and I'll consider selling off one set... one for the car test, one for spares or a home speaker project, coupled with some Bowers and Wilkins 802 tweeters a bud gave me (sadly, not the new diamond model, but complete with the external housings and all). I just need to make or buy a grill for them. More fun in the future!


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

> Still in Midland?
> 
> I need to demo this sucker... and I actually have something demoable as well, just won't sound nearly as good.. lol..


Still here... still have my phone? Always happy to get input. I'd rather get a little more tuning before showing, but what the heck!


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Just in case anyone's still watching, here's the latest. My sub enclosure was always a bit big and since I preferred the way it sounded in its old MDF enclosure, I decided to try something unusual to see if I could get sound I'd be happier with. 

I filled in some space and reinforced the places where I didn't already have MDF supporting the structure with MDF Stew - heavy on the meat. I poured in 2 cups of fiberglass resin, then added a like quantity of MDF chips (small pieces busted off a couple of large scrap pieces I had laying around). Then after mixing them thoroughly and letting the resin soak into any crevices, I added another cup of resin and enough chips to get a solid coating at least 1/2 inch thick. I prodded at it to work out any bubbles and shaped it up, then let it dry and rotated the box to get to the next section... rinse and repeat.

Its just now complete, but I'm going to do a little touch up painting before I put it all back together. Not expecting miracles, but I used a gallon of resin and a fair bit of MDF so I'm hoping it'll eliminate any flexing that was going on, and maybe even add some of the better acoustic properties of MDF to the overall sound.

It'd be great if the box sounded as good as it looks - since it turned out pretty damned good for the space it fits in. Pics and results coming soon.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Revised look with Kuda ipod mount and a nice wired holder, as well as the Pioneer DVD. Anyone who's used the Sarotech 260S will recognize the screen, and its 250gb drive is strictly on video duty these days - mounted in the trunk and controlled with a handy remote.

Figured I'd update just in case anyone's interested. Still toying with going to an Ipad, but I honestly don't see myself using any of its offerings aside from navigation... still, I"m a computer geek at heart, so its hard to not try - just on general principles!


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## aV8ter (Sep 4, 2009)

Looks good. Can't tell from the pic but did you have the XLSs in? How are they doing if so?


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

Def still watching!! 

liking this still! ... but you know what the people want!! we need pics!


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

How are the midrange/tweeter pods attached to the panel? Pics of the driver side?


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Here's the XLS installed, but the fabric hasn't been replaced just yet. I got kind of tricky with the grills, plugging the original holes and redrilling to fit the Peerless - then hit them with a coat of rocker panel coating (texturized) to cover up any blemishs... pretty pleased with the result!










I'll try to get a shot of the drivers side next time I take shots... maybe I already have one that I didn't post too. The pods are attached by 1"x3/16"x 6"long (roughly) aluminum straps, bent to direct them correctly. They're bolted over the two large bolts in the rear of the cabinets and held in place by two or three sheet metal screws into the car's interior. Mostly that there for directing them properly because they fit into that corner so that most of the weight seems to be supported by the corners resting on the floor.

I've really gotten to like the CUDA ipod mount and the wired ipod dock, running to the PURE I20 and back to the B1. With it set up that way, I can pretty much control everything one handed, with little effort while driving =)

Notes: 
1. A buddy just sent me 2 of the complete tweeter pod assemblies from an older pair of the exceptional (and expensive) B&W 802s... How am I ever gonig to settle into a system when I get toys like that to play with! Thanks Mike! 
2. Pretty artwork on the baffles, don't you think? That was meant for the inside, but hey, it looked like it was really the drivers side baffle!


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## HardCoreDore (Apr 30, 2014)

I realize this is an old thread but hopefully you are still around. You mentioned that you had issues with the stock door cards making your midbasses sound odd. I drive an 8th gen si and although i'm using midrange drivers in the stock door location, I notice what seems to be poor harmonics im my sound stage. It may be better to say there is a muddy resonance at some frequencies. I'm running a set of Boston Pro 6.0s and the tweetst are in the stock location.


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