# Where doe syour money go.....Towers/Book shelves?



## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

I am in the hunt for a set of towers/book shelves. I think towers would have a advantage over Book shlves as far as low end, but the BS would blend better with my setting in the living rom withot being to "hey look at me!"

If others have opinions feel free.
These are the two sets I am haveing a tiome choosing between.....and DIY is out....I do not have the time to build them right now.


In black however.
Swan D2.1SE

or 
Swan Diva 5.2



Please feel free to point me in other directions.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I'd shred the first one


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

chad said:


> I'd shred the first one


ASS.

I do have a 12" woofer to go with this 2.1 set up.


Not pricey, but not bad either....already on hand.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Seriously, you guys get all chubbed out about having to have the LARGEST possible midbass in a car, so much in fact that you will go thru HELL to incorporate a 3 way but yet you feel that a pair of 6.5 inch woofers, 1 left, 1 right is gonna fill a 1300 cubic foot room the way you want it.

And before you tell me that you ahve a 12" sub again... yeah I know, but it's not NEARLY as effective in that 1300 ft room as it is in your car......

Whatever you are smoking pass it over, because we need to be in the same state of dillusion


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

chad said:


> I'd shred the first one


ROFL










What about a single pair of 4.5" full rangers...ehhh?









JK, I'd love to build some towers with dual 8's one day. Something with serious cone area but enough grace to blend well with a low playing tweeter.


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## rmenergy (Feb 15, 2009)

Have you looked into a company called Speaker Art? The owner (Bob Gross) is absolutely brilliant on crossover design. He has two styles of speakers available, the Super Clef (bookshelf) & Super Clef TL (tower). The latter is a 1/8 wavelength transmission line. The former is a very stout (55lb) bookshelf which is what I have in my house. I don't even use a sub with my setup, corner loading the speakers was all they needed for superb results(with 150w rms on each). Both designs are two way with either 6 1/2" or 8" woofers and vifa or scanspeak tweeters. There are two x-overs available but both have (I believe) 7th & 12th order notch filters. Because of the economy, I know that he is willing to deal direct and prices should be about 50% off of retail (possibly more). If you want more info PM me and I will give you his contact info or you can check out Speaker Art the site has not been updated in quite some time and does not reflect what is currently available.


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

chad said:


> Seriously, you guys get all chubbed out about having to have the LARGEST possible midbass in a car, so much in fact that you will go thru HELL to incorporate a 3 way but yet you feel that a pair of 6.5 inch woofers, 1 left, 1 right is gonna fill a 1300 cubic foot room the way you want it.
> 
> And before you tell me that you ahve a 12" sub again... yeah I know, but it's not NEARLY as effective in that 1300 ft room as it is in your car......
> 
> Whatever you are smoking pass it over, because we need to be in the same state of dillusion


LOL IL must have some serious size in their houses because my whole house is only 1350 square feet of living space, not including the garage/shop. My sub is corner loaded and for movies, which is what this set up will more than likely be used for, it seems to do fine....enough to where Ihave it turned down the gain and the gain on the reciever to -11. Chad throw me a bone. Post up some links of towers/BS that have that oh so hard to please Chad stamp of approval. 

Like my car I do not have to have it loud, but when that little bastard it side of my strikes a nerve I want to be ale to turn it up with good results.


And unlike my car my wife has the final say whether or not the towers/BS match our decor. So they have to look decent. So unfortunately sprayed bed liner will not work in this application without me getting an ear full daily from the wife, which I want to avoid.....the ear full , not the wife.


I was orginally looking at the Swan 6.2 towers which use the dual 8" set up.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

CUBIC FEET

I'm looking for the same thing myself, hence why I was so upset to lose the auction on the a/d/s L810's


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

chad said:


> CUBIC FEET
> 
> I'm looking for the same thing myself, hence why I was so upset to lose the auction on the a/d/s L810's


So if Chad was buying direct would would you be looking at?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Chads thinking of building 2XDayton 10HF a mid and a tweet.

Can't find what I want in my price range... I'd LOVE a set of big Dunlavy's


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I dont like the first set. Driver's not even countersunk. Id take the towers out of those two.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I think those towers are pretty sexy, wish they had 8's or 10's for low end though.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

These look right up your alley Chad

Parts Express DIY Project


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> These look right up your alley Chad
> 
> Parts Express DIY Project


I never understood the tweeter and midbass assembly in that design. Why is it done that way and how does that help/add anything to the sound?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

_Technically, this design is best described as a Hybrid Omnidirectional Speaker System (HOSS), not a true omni. I refer to it as a hybrid because it is omnidirectional for only a portion of its frequency range: through the crossover to the tweeter, at which point it transitions to a direct firing monopole. I believe the hybrid concept combines the best features of both omni and monopole speakers. One of the knocks often made on omni speakers is that they don't image well. The HOSS's transition from omnidirectional in the bass and lower midrange to a monopole upper midrange and treble contributes to a large, deep, and lifelike soundstage, while maintaining the excellent imaging of a small monopole speaker. _

Do a little search on the diy ht forums for lots of info worded better than I can.

Im thinking of building these when I finish grad school in May.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I don't like the omni idea, especially for only one passband... sexy but nope


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Yeah because I have no clue what that means. I'd have to see how it works for myself to really get it. It's just odd to me that the midbass is the only speaker not pointed directly at the listener when it's playing the frequencies that are easiest to localize.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

In theory, the room the speakers are in as well as their placement have just as much to add to the performance as the quality of the speakers themselves. 

Speakers need room to breathe and placing them next to things like walls,tables, and other furniture cause reflections in the sound which scatter about the room. You can still hear them but at a slightly different time or delayed from the direct radiating sound of the speakers causing 'smearing' of the original sound. 

Omnipoles eliminate these in a not so perfect room (which most are) by eliminating the direct radiating part of the sound being on axis..it scatters all of the sound around the space. I'm not saying omnipole speakers are the absolute, just in most furniture crowded rooms with speakers locked up against the wall or sqeezed in the corners, they offer an alternative where they can add depth in the passband of the mids. then the on axis tweeter brings the detail. It sounds interesting but only got to mess with mirages and I liked them so I want to give a good diy setup a try. I mean if it won the best sounding speaker at the diy meet it cant possibly be bad.


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

Autiophile said:


> What's the price limit for the pair?


I would like to stay below 1k or there about.


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## TXwrxWagon (Sep 26, 2008)

I have old (circa 1996-1997) Energy Veritas 22.3's (towers) Dual 6.5" + 1" dedicated L+R units (baffles are asymmetrical). They are floor standing, about 4.5' tall.

They are smooth, rolling on the bottom end, but not "theater" bass... very musical. When I want the theater rumble, an OLD school Alpine 12" 6000 series sub in a custom "end table/enclosure". But it rarely gets played. I really need a better amp for the sub. Looking for one to actually mount in enclosure.

Anyway. If I had the perfect situation: my Energy towers in my "listening room" & a set of decent sized bookshelves & a great powered sub for 5.1/theater system. I've tried numerous times to have 1 system do both... just doesn't work... I want a dynamic,transient, fast bookself & monster sub for movies.

I like both choices you showed. Nice looking pieces. Wish I could hear them. 

Rob


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

keep the options coming....put yourself in my posistion $1k to spend on the best perfroming/looking towers you can find.


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

chad said:


> CUBIC FEET
> 
> I'm looking for the same thing myself, hence why I was so upset to lose the auction on the a/d/s L810's


close enough?
AudiogoN ForSale: ADS L880 Series 2


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm going to do the usher 2way on pe and convert it into a short tower but still keep the drivers the same distance from the top. Should be more stable and less clumsy than stands. Will put weight and crossover in lower parts. Look forward to kicking your ass in the side by side we'll be doing


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

And again… curious why you aren’t going with the swans Scott and you had discussed? I don’t care. I just wonder what happened.

As far as bookshelf vs. tower. I’ve listened to both. Bookshelves have plenty of low end. It varies, but just because it’s not a tower doesn’t mean it can’t get low. 

What are you planning on doing? Music or theater? Mix? How much (50/50)?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I'm going to do the usher 2way on pe and convert it into a short tower but still keep the drivers the same distance from the top. Should be more stable and less clumsy than stands. Will put weight and crossover in lower parts. Look forward to kicking your ass in the side by side we'll be doing


Get your fork out of the toaster hillbilly, you are asking for trouble. a 6.5" driver is not gonna fill a room like you want it to.



bikinpunk said:


> And again… curious why you aren’t going with the swans Scott and you had discussed? I don’t care. I just wonder what happened.
> 
> As far as bookshelf vs. tower. I’ve listened to both. Bookshelves have plenty of low end. It varies, but just because it’s not a tower doesn’t mean it can’t get low.
> 
> What are you planning on doing? Music or theater? Mix? How much (50/50)?


Many "bookshelves" have plenty of low end, none that I have heard that did held a 6.5" woofer


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

chad said:


> Get your fork out of the toaster hillbilly, you are asking for trouble. a 6.5" driver is not gonna fill a room like you want it to.
> 
> 
> 
> Many "bookshelves" have plenty of low end, none that I have heard that did held a 6.5" woofer


They will in the room I'll be putting them inI sit at most 10' from them kicked all the way back in the recliner and the back of the room is really close to me. Cabinet WIDTH is of concern as well. If I had the room I'd be doing something insane like you have in mind with a big amp to juice them. My truck is my place to rock out to cab-filling music. The house is where I relax to tv. All I need is fidelity and nothing more. Will probably do the peerless xls sub in the box tyroneshoes uses the hf10 in for his ht. He said the peerless modeled out just as nice in that box.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Autiophile said:


> I sit about 12 feet from my speakers and the 6.5" woofers in my B&Ws weren't even close to cutting it.
> 
> Having that rear wall near you is not a good thing. Be sure to treat it effectively.


I drive a truck with the back glass inches from my head. If I got around the issue without putting a curtain over the back glass I can get around the issue with an untreated back wall close to me...actually the hallway is back there also so...

Not trying to pull a tspence on ya though. I'm just not as picky in the home as I am in the truck. I might spend an hour a year listening to music in the home. That's where tv and occasional movies happen and just want to get a something that can be transferred to an area that's worth putting time into making right


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Autiophile said:


> A back wall (really any reflective surface) near you head is a potential problem no matter what the environment. You've apparently found some sort of acceptable compromise in your truck, but don't fool yourself into thinking it's not a compromise. Hell, reproducing audio in a vehicle is always a collection of compromises. I make a compromise in my room by sitting close to a rear wall, but I can mitigate some portion of that detrimental impact through absorption on the rear wall.
> 
> Not sure I totally understood the last sentence, but if you are saying this is a system you want to transfer to a different and more suitable area at some point, that's all the more reason to go with something more robust than 6.5s.


Yes I found what was needed to make my truck sound like I want it. If I were to put the same drivers in an ext cab sierra I doubt I could match the sound even though the sound in the ext cab or quadcab would most likely be different for the better. 

As for more robust drivers I'm using 5" jbl 2-ways right now as my ONLY speakers and they fill the room fine. You'd have to see it for yourself in person to see just how small my listening area is in this place. Cabinet WIDTH is the real enemy here. These 7" usher 8945a's are beefcakes so I think they'll be fine for the time being


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I say just forget fidelity and throw a couple of C-Vs full range cabinets, like the CLS-215, in and then supplement it with a couple more CLS-15S's or maybe one in each corner. That ought to be fun.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> I say just forget fidelity and throw a couple of C-Vs full range cabinets, like the CLS-215, in and then supplement it with a couple more CLS-15S's or maybe one in each corner. That ought to be fun.


You talkin bout Cerwin Vega? If so I gave my dad my ls12's I bought from bby back in 01. GREAT for tv and moviesToo bad those won't fit where I need to put them. Even so they really cut corners with the 12" woofer and most likely the crossover network too. If they wouldn't have had the slowblow fuses I would have blown them up several times over back in the day:laugh:


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

With about 200 watts to each I'd get in so much trouble with these


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> You talkin bout Cerwin Vega? If so I gave my dad my ls12's I bought from bby back in 01. GREAT for tv and moviesToo bad those won't fit where I need to put them. Even so they really cut corners with the 12" woofer and most likely the crossover network too. If they wouldn't have had the slowblow fuses I would have blown them up several times over back in the day:laugh:


Yep. If they are good enough for The Fresh Prince they're good enough for me. :laugh::laugh:Unless they changed them, the subs are pretty much the same as the old school C-V car subs.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> With about 200 watts to each I'd get in so much trouble with these


I'd love to have a set of those in the shop


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

btw with my old ls12's my neighbors HATED me. Pissed off my share of people with them even when I lived by myself in the country...still live in the country but other people in the house keeps my volume down.


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

I am still up on where I want to go with my HT set up.....I am sure the reason being that I want it to look good, sound great nad do not want to have to upgreade for the next 5-10 years. So I need a timeless design.

I was looking at Zaphs ZRT 2.5 Scan design, but I do not like the basic cabinets.
routes of administration of drugs

Also if someone know of a HT site that has built these and may be up for sale please let me know.


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## foosman (Oct 14, 2007)

Have a look at anything Usher offers. Overseas knockoffs of Scans, plus D'Appolito designed cabinets and crossovers.

Ireally like these:

AudiogoN ForSale: Usher X-718
AudiogoN ForSale: Usher Audio CP-6371
AudiogoN ForSale: Usher X-616
AudiogoN ForSale: Usher CP-6311

And if you can afford the shipping??

AudiogoN ForSale: Usher (Will Ship!) L-18 Flagship Model


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