# HDTRACKS 24bit 96khz or 192khz - anyone?



## DAT

Anyone ?

I just got the new EAGLES - Studio Albums in 24/192

https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HX603497922994


----------



## BowDown

I have purchased a good amount of music from there. I usually go 24/96. Really no reason with my system to go higher.


----------



## ISTundra

How does the new Eagles studio set sound?

Although I'd still rather own a physical disc, I've bought quite a bit from HDTracks. It's been hit & miss on some recordings. Some sound great, others not much different than the better masterings available on CD. Then the next issue is I have to downsample them to 16/44 to play in the car. But I'll still buy them from HDtracks if the innertube consensus indicates it's a superior mastering.


----------



## DAT

ISTundra said:


> How does the new Eagles studio set sound?
> 
> Although I'd still rather own a physical disc, I've bought quite a bit from HDTracks. It's been hit & miss on some recordings. Some sound great, others not much different than the better masterings available on CD. Then the next issue is I have to downsample them to 16/44 to play in the car. But I'll still buy them from HDtracks if the innertube consensus indicates it's a superior mastering.


I think they are an improvement, what titles do you have? Maybe we could swap a couple?

i just download these from HDTRACKS

Shirley Brown - Woman to Woman (1974) [Stax Remasters)
Commodores - Natural High (1978) [HDTracks 24-192]
Commodores - Midnight Magic (1979) [HDTracks 24-192]
Ella Fitzgerald - Things Ain't What They Used to Be 1970 HDtracks 
King Curtis - Everybody's Talking (1971) [2012 _HDTracks 24-192]
Esther Phillips - Burnin'_Live At Freddie Jett's Pied Piper Club, L.A. (1970) HDTracks


----------



## teldzc1

Heard the metallica black album at a home stereo show. That was pretty incredible. Can head units play these? 

Sent from my SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## oilman

There's a couple different boxes that will play the super audio files. They plug into your processor via fiber and stream from your iPad via wireless. I'm told they will even convert regular audio files into super audio files. Not sure how that works but its supposed to be night and day. [

I have both of the Hell freezes over CDs. One regular CD and one K2 HD 24-bit.


----------



## oilman




----------



## TrickyRicky

I got the ****ty quality of "woman to woman".


----------



## basshead

Problem with 192khz is that lots of DAC only support 96khz, so you end up downsampling the stream making it worse than pure 96khz depending on the filter used.


----------



## BowDown

basshead said:


> Problem with 192khz is that lots of DAC only support 96khz, so you end up downsampling the stream making it worse than pure 96khz depending on the filter used.


Exactly. Wish I bought the 96khz Metallica album for this reason. 



Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S III 32gb via tapatalk 2.


----------



## Evicmar

basshead said:


> Problem with 192khz is that lots of DAC only support 96khz, so you end up downsampling the stream making it worse than pure 96khz depending on the filter used.


arc audio ps8 supports 192khz. I'd recommend using toslink from a carputer if you are going to do this right.


----------



## basshead

Evicmar said:


> arc audio ps8 supports 192khz. I'd recommend using toslink from a carputer if you are going to do this right.


But does the DSP support full processing at 192kHz or it's down sampled before the DSP?


----------



## oilman

I heard there a was conversion box out that would allow you to stream wifi to the box from iPad/tablet. The box plugs directly into the PS8. Very simple process I would like to know more about.


----------



## BowDown

basshead said:


> But does the DSP support full processing at 192kHz or it's down sampled before the DSP?


Very true. I believe that is called Significant Figures. 

Having a 64bit pipeline into a 32bit processor yields 32bit results.


----------



## quality_sound

I want to say it supports 192 but I'd have to look at my notes again.


----------



## evilspoons

FWIW, the latest Mumford & Sons album sounds exactly the same in the HDTracks 24/96 version as it does on the CD. That one was a waste of time.


----------



## danno

I just do a pure i20 into the PS8. The i20 does 192k.


----------



## WestCo

danno said:


> I just do a pure i20 into the PS8. The i20 does 192k.


Me 2. I really enjoy the i20. Do you go rca or optical? I have the controller on preorder and it hasn't arrived...


----------



## t3sn4f2

Evicmar said:


> arc audio ps8 supports 192khz. I'd recommend using toslink from a carputer if you are going to do this right.





basshead said:


> But does the DSP support full processing at 192kHz or it's down sampled before the DSP?


No, it doesn't. All current and past car audio DSP processors down-sample to the native rate of 48kHz. Except for maybe the Alpine PXI-H990 which can transfer protected high resolution audio from the head unit through a proprietary encoded link (ionbus), and has a spec FR output rating into 40kHz. Which can only be possible if it is processing at higher that 48KHz throughout. Audison is coming out with one that actually processes at 96kHz. I don't think it is out yet.



oilman said:


> I heard there a was conversion box out that would allow you to stream wifi to the box from iPad/tablet. The box plugs directly into the PS8. Very simple process I would like to know more about.


I'm sure their are numerous wireless streamers by now, but one would be an Apple airport express modded for DC and streaming from an iDevice using Airplay (as all do). You do need a router and some special parameter setting so you don't loss cellular data service while connected to WeeFee. 

Wireless streaming is pointless IHMO though. If you are going to have to dock the device in some type of cradle in order to navigate it. Then why not charge it and pull the digital stream more easily with a simple hardwired dock connection. The Pure i-20 is an excellent choice since it's stable as hell, boots instantly, and doesn't require you to select the airplay speakers from the device each and every time you get in the car. Plus it's cheap and easy to integrate into a DC set up.



BowDown said:


> Very true. I believe that is called Significant Figures.
> 
> *Having a 64bit pipeline into a 32bit processor yields 32bit results*.


Bit and sample rate are two completely different things. Also many processors process at 32bit or higher, yet they only accept up to 24bit word lengths.



danno said:


> I just do a pure i20 into the PS8. The i20 does 192k.


The i-20 doesn't doesn't process higher than 48Khz files. This is a device limit and an iOS limit. You can use the FLAC player app to decode higher than that but it won't output correctly out the i-20, or maybe even at all. You need to either use it with an idevice that is compatible with the usb camera kit and then connect a compatible USB DAC or SPDIF converter. Or let the idevice down converter to 48kHz and listen to the analog outs from it.

What you see in the Pure literature of it having a 192Khz DAC is just popular marketing lingo. The DAC chip itself is capable of it, but the data chain leading into it isn't. Last time I checked there isn't an iPhone/iPod digital dock out yet that supports high resolution outputs.


----------



## JohnVella

basshead said:


> Problem with 192khz is that lots of DAC only support 96khz, so you end up downsampling the stream making it worse than pure 96khz depending on the filter used.


yup. true..


----------



## Zippy

t3sn4f2 said:


> No, it doesn't. All current and past car audio DSP processors down-sample to the native rate of 48kHz. Except for maybe the Alpine PXI-H990 which can transfer protected high resolution audio from the head unit through a proprietary encoded link (ionbus), and has a spec FR output rating into 40kHz. Which can only be possible if it is processing at higher that 48KHz throughout. Audison is coming out with one that actually processes at 96kHz. I don't think it is out yet.


Where are you getting your info from t3sn4f2? I hooked up my PS8 to my home audio system and my amp is displaying 192 khz/24 bit output from it when I'm playing 192/24 files. I'm playing the files from a computer into the PS8 via toslink and standard rcas to the amp. I also did the same with my pure i-20 playing files through golden ear app with a toslink back to the PS8. 

Audison outputs 96khz now from their bit one and bit ten processors. I did the same thing with a friends bit one and my pure i-20. I had to run power leads for 12v to the bit one. It does not have the home audio power supply option the PS8 does. If you read the tech sheet for the bit one they say if you send higher than a 96khz file to them they freeze up. Why would Audison be working on improving their bit products to what they already do? 



t3sn4f2 said:


> I'm sure their are numerous wireless streamers by now, but one would be an Apple airport express modded for DC and streaming from an iDevice using Airplay (as all do). You do need a router and some special parameter setting so you don't loss cellular data service while connected to WeeFee.
> 
> Wireless streaming is pointless IHMO though. If you are going to have to dock the device in some type of cradle in order to navigate it. Then why not charge it and pull the digital stream more easily with a simple hardwired dock connection. The Pure i-20 is an excellent choice since it's stable as hell, boots instantly, and doesn't require you to select the airplay speakers from the device each and every time you get in the car. Plus it's cheap and easy to integrate into a DC set up.


From an SQ perspective airplay sucks. Everything gets down sampled to 20khz range if memory serves.From a quick I want to play something off my device for you to hear, it rocks. You can control everything from the device streaming wirelessly and it does not cost you any bandwidth from a hotspot. Airplay is UDP packets. UDP will not leave a local network so it never uses your data plan. 



t3sn4f2 said:


> Bit and sample rate are two completely different things. Also many processors process at 32bit or higher, yet they only accept up to 24bit word lengths.
> 
> 
> 
> The i-20 doesn't doesn't process higher than 48Khz files. This is a device limit and an iOS limit. You can use the FLAC player app to decode higher than that but it won't output correctly out the i-20, or maybe even at all. You need to either use it with an idevice that is compatible with the usb camera kit and then connect a compatible USB DAC or SPDIF converter. Or let the idevice down converter to 48kHz and listen to the analog outs from it.
> 
> What you see in the Pure literature of it having a 192Khz DAC is just popular marketing lingo. The DAC chip itself is capable of it, but the data chain leading into it isn't. Last time I checked there isn't an iPhone/iPod digital dock out yet that supports high resolution outputs.


I've gotten 192khz/24 bit files to play at 192khz/24 bit with the i-20. It's the toslink digital output that makes the pure i-20 rock. Not it's internal DSP. When you use the toslink output it does zero processing at the pure i-20. This allows the target DSP(PS8 in my case) to do all the processing.


----------



## jbeez

Zippy… UDP protocol is 100% without a doubt routable out of any subnet

Sent from my HTC One


----------



## Zippy

jbeez said:


> Zippy… UDP protocol is 100% without a doubt routable out of any subnet
> 
> Sent from my HTC One


Thanks for the correction. My intent was to say that bonjour for apple is not routable. It's a multicast query on the network that sets up communication for AirPlay. If this was routable, then no one would be able to use the Internet due to broadcast storms. Once the target discovery has been made it is a two way communication between both devices. In no way are you using your data plan to AirPlay anything.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Zippy said:


> Where are you getting your info from t3sn4f2? I hooked up my PS8 to my home audio system and *my amp is displaying 192 khz/24 bit output *from it when I'm playing 192/24 files. I'm playing the files from a computer into the PS8 via toslink and standard rcas to the amp. I also did the same with my pure i-20 playing files through golden ear app with a toslink back to the PS8.


I'll assume you meant your PC/DAC is telling you its outputting 24/192. Thats fine, thats how it works. BUT once that digital stream enters the PS8 to be processed it must be sample rate converted to the processors native sample rate. Which is according to what I've been told 48kHz. Don't take my word for it, look at the FR spec for the PS8.

From a digital input:

"Frequency Response 10Hz - *23.5 kHz *@ .82 dB max deviation" 

If you do the math, you'll find that the maximum frequency response from a 48kHz/*32bit* file is exactly 23.5kHz. That is the digital limit, the analog stage in the PS8 can easily play past that, its just limited by the digital signal leaving the DSP. 

Below is a FR analysis graph from "Rightmark Audio Analyzer"'s 32/192 test file. Again, though not as clear, the FR stops dead at 23.5kHz.











And below from the manual its telling you that optimally (IE not having been sample rate converted internally by the PS8), you should use 48kHz.

"6.4.1 - Digital Input (Coaxial)
Connect any 75 ohm shielded cable to this location
with any compatible digital signal of *48kHz/24-32bit max, stereo signal, for optimum performance and
signal benefit of this input*. (See diagram 6.8)
6.4.2 - Digital Input (Optical)
Connect any TOSLINK terminated optical fiber cable to
this location with any compatible digital signal of
*48kHz/24-32bit max, stereo signal, for optimum performance and signal benefit of this input*.
(See diagram 6.8)"

The manual also states that.... "The ARC Audio PS8 gold plated audiophile designed main PCB uses a *specifically designed audio grade
32-bit DSP main processor optimized for operation at 192 kHz *and 170mHz operating speed with Dual
72-bit algorithmic volume control processors, eliminating signal compression as volume is increased,
giving the PS8 the most transparent, dynamic and musical signal processing capability of any processor
on the market."

That doesn't mean it is being used that way, just that it has the potential, maybe in a future firmware release.


The noise and dynamic range performance of any analog output stage on the other hand can't begin to approach that digital limit of 32 or even 24bits (ie 144dB). There you can see from the PS8 spec that it is processing a 24bit input at 24bit, adding additional bits for processing and sending it as a 32bit stream to the DAC. Which then is limited to 109dB. So like the other processors, it accepts 24bits just fine since they all process at 24 bits or higher but then the DAC chokes it off. 




Zippy said:


> Audison outputs 96khz now from their bit one and bit ten processors. I did the same thing with a friends bit one and my pure i-20. I had to run power leads for 12v to the bit one. It does not have the home audio power supply option the PS8 does. If you read the tech sheet for the bit one they say if you send higher than a 96khz file to them they freeze up. Why would Audison be working on improving their bit products to what they already do?


From what I gathered above, I think you are confusing digital input compatibility with DSP processing sample rate here as well. As for the i-20, if it in fact plays highrez files, it is either because the iOS down samples to 48kHz or the i-20 does. Do you have a DAC with toslink inputs that displays the incoming sample rates. That'll tell you what the i-20 is really outputting.




Zippy said:


> From an SQ perspective airplay sucks. Everything gets down sampled to 20khz range if memory serves.From a quick I want to play something off my device for you to hear, it rocks. You can control everything from the device streaming wirelessly and it does not cost you any bandwidth from a hotspot. Airplay is UDP packets. UDP will not leave a local network so it never uses your data plan.


Not for the topic at hand, Airplay sends 44.1/16bit Redbook CD files bit perfectly.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/465-new-apple-airport-express-bit-perfect-still-limited/

http://amiexp.blogspot.sg/2011/11/airplay-to-airport-express-with-2496.html



Zippy said:


> I've gotten 192khz/24 bit files to play at 192khz/24 bit with the i-20. It's the toslink digital output that makes the pure i-20 rock. Not it's internal DSP. When you use the toslink output it does zero processing at the pure i-20. This allows the target DSP(PS8 in my case) to do all the processing.


Again, how do you know the output from the i-20 is still at 192kHz/24 bits? The PS-8 certainly isn't going to tell you.


----------



## BigRed

I don't claim to know what works here, but I'm using the digital out of the ipad mini to a pure i-20 playing 24/96 tracks digital to the Alpine H800. It plays fine, and I feel I can hear a bit more transparency. Maybe a placebo effect.


----------



## Zippy

t3sn4f2 said:


> I'll assume you meant your PC/DAC is telling you its outputting 24/192. Thats fine, thats how it works. BUT once that digital stream enters the PS8 to be processed it must be sample rate converted to the processors native sample rate. Which is according to what I've been told 48kHz. Don't take my word for it, look at the FR spec for the PS8.
> 
> From a digital input:
> 
> "Frequency Response 10Hz - *23.5 kHz *@ .82 dB max deviation"
> 
> If you do the math, you'll find that the maximum frequency response from a 48kHz/*32bit* file is exactly 23.5kHz. That is the digital limit, the analog stage in the PS8 can easily play past that, its just limited by the digital signal leaving the DSP.
> 
> Below is a FR analysis graph from "Rightmark Audio Analyzer"'s 32/192 test file. Again, though not as clear, the FR stops dead at 23.5kHz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And below from the manual its telling you that optimally (IE not having been sample rate converted internally by the PS8), you should use 48kHz.
> 
> "6.4.1 - Digital Input (Coaxial)
> Connect any 75 ohm shielded cable to this location
> with any compatible digital signal of *48kHz/24-32bit max, stereo signal, for optimum performance and
> signal benefit of this input*. (See diagram 6.8)
> 6.4.2 - Digital Input (Optical)
> Connect any TOSLINK terminated optical fiber cable to
> this location with any compatible digital signal of
> *48kHz/24-32bit max, stereo signal, for optimum performance and signal benefit of this input*.
> (See diagram 6.8)"
> 
> The manual also states that.... "The ARC Audio PS8 gold plated audiophile designed main PCB uses a *specifically designed audio grade
> 32-bit DSP main processor optimized for operation at 192 kHz *and 170mHz operating speed with Dual
> 72-bit algorithmic volume control processors, eliminating signal compression as volume is increased,
> giving the PS8 the most transparent, dynamic and musical signal processing capability of any processor
> on the market."
> 
> That doesn't mean it is being used that way, just that it has the potential, maybe in a future firmware release.
> 
> The noise and dynamic range performance of any analog output stage on the other hand can't begin to approach that digital limit of 32 or even 24bits (ie 144dB). There you can see from the PS8 spec that it is processing a 24bit input at 24bit, adding additional bits for processing and sending it as a 32bit stream to the DAC. Which then is limited to 109dB. So like the other processors, it accepts 24bits just fine since they all process at 24 bits or higher but then the DAC chokes it off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I gathered above, I think you are confusing digital input compatibility with DSP processing sample rate here as well. As for the i-20, if it in fact plays highrez files, it is either because the iOS down samples to 48kHz or the i-20 does. Do you have a DAC with toslink inputs that displays the incoming sample rates. That'll tell you what the i-20 is really outputting.
> 
> 
> Not for the topic at hand, Airplay sends 44.1/16bit Redbook CD files bit perfectly.
> 
> Computer Audiophile - New Apple AirPort Express Bit Perfect But Still Limited
> 
> Am I Experienced?: Possibility for Airplay/AirTunes to Airport Express with Hi-Res Audio
> 
> 
> 
> Again, how do you know the output from the i-20 is still at 192kHz/24 bits? The PS-8 certainly isn't going to tell you.


I hear what you are saying about the 48khz/32 bit. Are you also taking in to account that the manual was written while they were working on the product and I doubt a technical editor went over it before they released it. If it could not support 192khz over toslink, then it would have frozen up when I sent a 192khz signal to it over toslink. Just like an Audison Bit One or Bit Ten(D) will. I agree that they need to clean up the manual.

As I had said about airplay, If memory serves. Your post is correct about that. 44.1khz/16 bit is what it get's from iDevices playing to a target. If there is a computer on the network then it's 96khz/24 bit from it to the airplay target. This is due to the software in the iDevices not being able to process streams at that high of a bit rate frequency combination.

If you adjust the output signal on the i device from normal audio to digital output you will get full output from the pure i-20. I've done this with the pure i-20 running to my Marantz AV8801 and personally seen 192khz/24 bit. iDevices default to using the internal processing which is limited to 96khz/24 bit. There are numerous posts around the web about how to get a digital output signal from iPads/iPhones. Most involve getting the camera kit to stream the digital audio out of the iDevice. If you do not make that adjustment, then you are also running multiple DSPs instead of just one and limiting yourself to the least common denominator.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Zippy said:


> I hear what you are saying about the 48khz/32 bit. Are you also taking in to account that the manual was written while they were working on the product and I doubt a technical editor went over it before they released it. If it could not support 192khz over toslink, then it would have frozen up when I sent a 192khz signal to it over toslink. Just like an Audison Bit One or Bit Ten(D) will. I agree that they need to clean up the manual.
> 
> As I had said about airplay, If memory serves. Your post is correct about that. 44.1khz/16 bit is what it get's from iDevices playing to a target. If there is a computer on the network then it's 96khz/24 bit from it to the airplay target. This is due to the software in the iDevices not being able to process streams at that high of a bit rate frequency combination.
> 
> If you adjust the output signal on the i device from normal audio to digital output you will get full output from the pure i-20. I've done this with the pure i-20 running to my Marantz AV8801 and personally seen 192khz/24 bit. iDevices default to using the internal processing which is limited to 96khz/24 bit. There are numerous posts around the web about how to get a digital output signal from iPads/iPhones. Most involve getting the camera kit to stream the digital audio out of the iDevice. If you do not make that adjustment, then you are also running multiple DSPs instead of just one and limiting yourself to the least common denominator.


-I suppose the manual could be outdated, but that is a stretch on somethinglike this. They go from standard sample rate to BOOM much higher than everything out there? And besides the FR spec came from the web page that wasn't even around when the PS8 came out.

-I never said the PS8 does not support high-rez. Please reread my post more closely.

-What app did you used to play the high resolution files your AV receiver displayed an incoming sample rate of 192kHz from the i-20 for? You mentioned the Golden Ear app, which unless their details page is outdated, it mentions it does not support a sample rate higher than 96kHz? And just to be clear, when you say you "saw" it on the AV receiver. What does that mean exactly? That it displayed incoming sample rate of "192kHz" like some DACs do?


----------



## Zippy

The golden ear app states 96khz as their cap, but I have gotten it to play 192 kHz/24 bit .wav files just fine. My Marantz displayed the full 192khz / 24 bit incoming signal. The Marantz AV8801 is the newest DSP from Marantz for home theater. 

On a side note, arc audio has two different pages covering the PS8 currently. They are a small shop and list the engineers as contacts for questions. It would not surprise me in the least that the website info is off from final product release. Look at their tabs on the website. They have the entry you quoted drilling down prossesors and a linked page just for the ps8 from a menu tab on the top right side of the tabs. PS: the volume controller release has been postponed till next year for it. They pulled the engineer that was working on it to do something else. They are a small shop.


----------



## palldat

Does anyone know what the mosconi 6to8 plays...coax, optical or through amas?


----------



## ISTundra

Any Dream Theater fans? I'm a huge fan but their recordings leave a lot to be desired. Everything after "Images & Words" has been brickwall compressed and loud as hell (with "Systematic Chaos" being the worst). But, the last 4 DT albums have been up at HDTracks in hi-res for awhile now and while I wouldn't call them audiophile quality -they're much better masterings than what's on CD. 

I've seen/heard "The Dark Eternal Night" used as demo before because it has awesome kick bass, but really the CD mastering of that is atrocious. The HDT release is not as loud, but is slightly more dynamic and has better separation between the instruments. All of the HDT releases are similarly better, "DET" probably shows the least improvement but the waveform comparison is below for reference (CD release on top, HDT on bottom).


----------



## BigRed

Muddy waters for the win!!!


----------



## Earzbleed

24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed


----------



## ErinH

BigRed said:


> Muddy waters for the win!!!


Indeed. Great albums.


----------



## ISTundra

Earzbleed said:


> 24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed


I think mastering matters more than resolution.


----------



## THEDUKE

What happens if I burn a FLAC 24/96 to WAV CD. My deck supports 24/96, but does it change when I burn it to WAV?


----------



## t3sn4f2

THEDUKE said:


> What happens if I burn a FLAC 24/96 to WAV CD. My deck supports 24/96, but does it change when I burn it to WAV?


Supported file resolution is one thing. Supported media is a completely different thing. A head unit might support high resolution files but only support the standard CD 16bit/44.1kHz media. You need to ind out the specifics for your application.

As for the burning processes maintaining the original resolution, it depends on the software you use. But more than likely a typical program is going to down convert the high resolution file to the standard CD format resolution. Which if you look at the high resolution files being silly link earlier, it definitely not a bad thing. You benefit from the increase attention to mastering those "audiophile" type albums possess, and then you get the benefit of it being down-converted to meet the limits of every car audio system in existence.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Most of this discussion has been pretty well over my head. So, a couple simple questions. I have a P99RS. Will the tracks from HD Tracks (or other similar sources) be of benefit? If so, what is the recommended format?

Thanks!


----------



## ISTundra

P99 will only play 44khz/16 bit files; you would need to downsample any higher res HD tracks to 44/16 first, so they wouldn't be high-res anymore at that point. Self-defeating, if you don't have a high-res playback system at home, but it can be worthwhile to buy the high-res if it has a better mastering than what's available elsewhere, such as the Dream Theater recordings I listed a few posts up.

I buy Wav or flac from HDTracks, then convert to 44/16 Wav to play on my P99.


----------



## Deadpool_25

ISTundra said:


> P99 will only play 44khz/16 bit files; you would need to downsample any higher res HD tracks to 44/16 first, so they wouldn't be high-res anymore at that point. Self-defeating, if you don't have a high-res playback system at home, but it can be worthwhile to buy the high-res if it has a better mastering than what's available elsewhere, such as the Dream Theater recordings I listed a few posts up.
> 
> I buy Wav or flac from HDTracks, then convert to 44/16 Wav to play on my P99.


Good info, thanks. You coming to the Dec 7 GTG?


----------



## ISTundra

Deadpool_25 said:


> Good info, thanks. You coming to the Dec 7 GTG?


Plan to be there, for a few hours anyway. I didn't meet you at the last one.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Hm. You were there? Without the truck I assume?


----------



## ISTundra

I was the guy who kept pulling the same 3 people's raffle tickets out of the door prize bucket. My truck wasn't there (undergoing changes) but I plan to bring it next time. If my back holds up 'til I get it done.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Oh! Ok. We might've met for a sec. I'll make sure to re-intro myself next time.


----------

