# Best Amplifier for 1000-watts at 2 ohm



## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Hey guys, I have a list a mile long of different amplifiers that put out 1000+ watts at 2-ohms. I need your help. I will be purchasing two of these, but I have yet to decide which will be the best. I have the alternator, batteries, etc to handle the power I would just like to know which amplifier, that I can find in pairs, with each one being able to handle 1000-watts at 2 ohms.

For different reasons I am steering clear of 2000-watts at 1 ohm and bridged at 2-ohms.

Basically for $700 or less each what 1000-watt amplifier at 2 ohms would you choose and why? 

Obviously SQL is very important and nothing under 1000 watts at all.

I appreciate any help that you can provide. Its hard to catch back up with the brands if you've been out of the game a few years.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Look into a used JL HD1200.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Thank you, I checked them out, and hopefully it's a miss print, but their specs on crutchfield and no audio list their s/n ratio at >50. I'm sure they meant channel separation, but seeing that on both site regarding the rd xd and hd scared me off. Sad too since that was what I was holding onto as one of my number 1 choices. Great suggestion though. Thank you. I'll send you a real thanks later.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

You can get a good Korean 2k that will do 1200 at 2ohm for way less then $700. 
The power will be there if you want it. They are small and efficient.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Sorry I still don't know what makes it a Korean amp, but I do want reliability and speed too. I'm trying to play thunder from my system. Its a very difficult sound to achieve clearly at high volume. Please expand on Korean. I figured out Brazil and steering clear of those.


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## truckguy (Sep 2, 2013)

ARC KS1200.1 fits the bill. I’ve had one for a few years with no complaints. You can usually find a used one somewhere. I can’t remember how much they are new.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

There is so many amps that will do and provide there power. have you even looked around and thats 700 per amp that you want to spend.. ?

I would suggest to look for 1 amp solution, why go with 2 and be more complicated, like 1 amp that does 3k w rms...?


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

jackal28 said:


> Sorry I still don't know what makes it a Korean amp, but I do want reliability and speed too. I'm trying to play thunder from my system. Its a very difficult sound to achieve clearly at high volume. Please expand on Korean. I figured out Brazil and steering clear of those.


The current Korean build houses are the same ones that made all the good old amps before they moved to China. You can get the new model of my DD M1D for $500 if the dealer isn’t a prick. It’s the smallest 2k besides a Brazilian. And a power house. 
Also there is nothing wrong with Brazilian as long as it’s a good one. The soundigital EVOs are nice.


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## Viggen (May 2, 2011)

I would consider a used Phoenix Gold elite.2 or elite.1


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

Zapco DC1100 - while only very slightly over your requested power, definetly under your overall budget and they come with a pretty decent DSP built in. 

https://www.zapco.com/dc1101

Power @ 4Ω: 1 x 825 watts
Power @ 2Ω: 1 x 1100 watts
THD @ Rated Power < 0.05%
Signal to Noise Ratio > 90dB
Channel separation > 60dB
Frequency Response 10Hz to 30,000Hz ±1dB
Input Sensitivity .25v to 14v
Dimensions in mm: 180(W) x 60(H) x 603(L) Overall: 183(W) x 60(H) x 632(L)

For a pricing reference, from an authorized dealer (heavily discounted/on-sale at the moment - these go used for around $400 ! ) -> DC1101.1 - Zapco Monoblock 1100W DC Series Amplifier with On-Board Digital Processing


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

Also - per your original post/question - not only *would I* but I actually have used this amp - have one on my bench right now from my last car, not sure what I'm doing with it yet but I will not hesitate to use it  Great amp. Noteworthy I paid $700 USED for it (was new/old stock - but technically an ebay / used item)... Foord for thought, but at $419 a piece from Woofers etc I'd give them a call in a heartbeat. The only real drawback I had with this amp was it's size...


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

Alpine MRV-M1200 $289 on Amazon, [email protected]

https://www.amazon.com/Alpine-MRV-M1200-Monoblock-Watts-Amplifier/dp/B01K8F1168


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## unix_usr (Dec 4, 2013)

For that matter - under $700 - you could also do the Alpine PDX (very solid amp) 1200x1 @ 2ohm too, class D with pretty good efficiency on the electrical draw side of things as well. I've run a few cars with the PDX and no complaints - saw the above post for the alpine MRV and figured the PDX was more noteworthy  Still stick by my Zapco recommendation though.

Alpine PDX -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003GFXYNG/


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

JLs new RD amps are decent value. But I’d still do a 2k Korean. 
It won’t break a sweat at 2ohm. If they can handle a 1/4ohm beat down then at 2ohm it will last forever and stay very cool.


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## NastyNate (Apr 10, 2013)

unix_usr said:


> Zapco DC1100 - while only very slightly over your requested power, definetly under your overall budget and they come with a pretty decent DSP built in.
> 
> https://www.zapco.com/dc1101
> 
> ...


DC1100.1 does way more than rated. The build sheet on mine shows 1080 watts at 4 ohms. That's easily around ~1400 at 2 ohms. I love it to death, just needed to step up to more power for the FI Neo q18's. 

OP I have a Zapco dc1100.1 for sale right now, pm if interested. Will do around 1400 at 2 ohms and has onboard processor.


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

Hybrid Audio U1A!!!! 1,000 watts at 2-ohms for $599


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## Firefighter9 (Sep 23, 2015)

I have a Mosconi AS 200.2 for sale in the classifieds. It does 1000 watts at 2 ohms. I had it driving a Audiofrog sub and it worked great.


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

And I would suggest a used zapco C2k 9.0. 
More than capable for what you are trying to do!


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## PPI_GUY (Dec 20, 2007)

Don't sleep on the JL Audio XD1000/1 either. They're great amps. Serious bang for your buck. At least 10% underrated so, you get a little bonus power. Proprietary designs too. Meaning; you won't see their internal boards showing up in other brands. That may or may not be important to you but, IMO shows JL is serious about R&D. 
Plus, they're on sale right now at Sonic Electronix...
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_69571_JL-Audio-XD1000-1v2.html


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Thanks, I was looking at those, but they were a little out of my price range. The only problem is that I am looking for a pair.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

I have a Mosconi AS 200.2 for sale in the classifieds. It does 1000 watts at 2 ohms. I had it driving a Audiofrog sub and it worked great.

Thanks, I was looking at those, but they were a little out of my price range. The only problem is that I am looking for a pair.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

I am choosing 2 x 2 ohms for two reasons. One, I want control over the phase of each sub given such small internal volume of the vehicle. I know they would be in phase with each other monoblocked but there may be other things to consider, plus I'm way to controlling.

The main issue for the 2x2ohms is that I am really focused on SQL. Once an amp drops down to 1 ohm alot of the control and speed goes out the window. I dont know if you guys have read the manual Zed has on his page regarding the usage of 1 ohm, but it made a lot of since to me. Perhaps an amp like DC that is supposedly specifically designed at 1 ohm may do ok, but thats not the route Im going. As for JL, I am running 4 JL Audio amps as well so I do love them. Zapco and Alpine were also choices I was looking at. The PG Ti2 2000.1 was originally the front runner for the 1 ohm section before my research into whether SQL would be lost dropping down to 1 ohm.

Right now I am leaning toward 2 of the U1A Hybrid Audio amps, and yes the looks had something to do with it as well as they will be one display in a hatchback. 

Honestly, I have seen so many choices out there, I wanted to see others votes on what their favorites were. Also, since I've been out of the game, only able to plan for some time I have not been up close and personal with any real amps lately besides a youtube video were someone is trying to catch a 30Hz bass tone on their camera phone mic.

Thank you guys so much and if you have any more votes please weigh in. I attached Steve Mantz's owners manual link below which explains in great deal many aspects of amplifiers including the lower ohm operation.

http://www.zedaudiocorp.com/pdf/zedmanual-2013.pdf


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

1ohm is absolutely fine. Even more so on sub bass. 
Don’t fall for the BS fluff

Btw SQL is a MECA car audio sound quality league. It’s nothing else.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Sorry, SQL is always the way I have abbreviated Sound QuaLity. It fits in nice with SPL. I have seen many others use SQL as well. Thank you for your input though. 

From what I've researched it seems like 1000 watts seems to be the crossover point between the audiophile SQL or SQ and SPL

I have two folders on the subs one is 1 ohm, the other is 2 at 2 ohms. Trust me, the 1 ohm way would be much easier on the budget as well as the search, but for some reason I continue to lean towards the 2 at 2 ohms which doubles the cost.

Oh, I do know about the Meca competitions as well, perhaps that is why I started using SQL instead of SQ. When you are bed ridden for 2 years, all you can do is research and read. They look like fun competitions.

Either way I appreciate everyone's input, I was going to compile it with some other amps that I have researched and start a list of bad, good, better, best subwoofer amplifiers of 2017 and input from DIYMA is drastically needed.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Why a 2-ohm amp?

It may be better if you are starting from scratch to seek a 4 ohm speaker and a 4 ohm amp??

Especially if fast and damping factor are important to you.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Because the subs are already wired to 2 ohms and I have no desire to take apart the installation just to change the ohms, although I have ran into a few amplifiers were it was considered, but I'm not a fan of running series either.

2 ohms is the perfect decision for my installation in my vehicle with my subwoofers as I believe. I simply asked for some input on 1000 watts x 2ohm subwoofers as I believed this to be a community in which we all help each-other out. A week ago the amplifier that I was leaning towards was the PG Ti2 2000.1 wired into 1 ohm. Im not against it, to each their own, and as I said before the sound quality issue may not even apply to amps such as DC who claim that they are specifically built for 1 ohm.

I had no intention of starting a resistance argument blog.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

I will try to use SQ more often although it seems lacking. Actually I originally used SQ as the abbreviation, then it moved on to SQL which to me means (Sound Qua-Lity or Sound Quality Level).


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

I am going to have to agree with the OP, I feel that a good amount of control is lost due to a drop in impedance the amp sees. That is why home audio uses 8 ohm drivers or even 16ohm drivers. 

This is entirely MY opinion. 

All the offers for used amps are difficult since he wants TWO matching amps. If you can find the Alpine MRX-110's they have the same technology of the PDX amps but in a different heat sink style. 

I know you have a big budget but you could put your money elsewhere if you are satisfied with the less expensive choices recommended.

Hybrid Audio is a cool choice since they are new.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

PPI_GUY said:


> Don't sleep on the JL Audio XD1000/1 either. They're great amps. Serious bang for your buck. At least 10% underrated so, you get a little bonus power. Proprietary designs too. Meaning; you won't see their internal boards showing up in other brands. That may or may not be important to you but, IMO shows JL is serious about R&D.
> Plus, they're on sale right now at Sonic Electronix...
> https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_69571_JL-Audio-XD1000-1v2.html


This was going to be my other suggestion and sonix is having a flash sale right now. It could be had for $489. I think that's a killer price for this amp.


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## Mullings (Jan 31, 2016)

Jl Audio slash 1000/1 is the best 1000 watt amp I’ve ever used, well damped at the lowest frequencies, I hate to sound like thrump but “trust me”, I’ve installed almost every brand of amplifiers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

jackal28 said:


> Because the subs are already wired to 2 ohms and I have no desire to take apart the installation just to change the ohms, although I have ran into a few amplifiers were it was considered, but I'm not a fan of running series either.
> 
> 2 ohms is the perfect decision for my installation in my vehicle with my subwoofers as I believe. I simply asked for some input on 1000 watts x 2ohm subwoofers as I believed this to be a community in which we all help each-other out. A week ago the amplifier that I was leaning towards was the PG Ti2 2000.1 wired into 1 ohm. Im not against it, to each their own, and as I said before the sound quality issue may not even apply to amps such as DC who claim that they are specifically built for 1 ohm.
> 
> I had no intention of starting a resistance argument blog.


Yep, thanks. Just a question I was interested in understanding your reasoning.
Good luck with it.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

SQLnovice said:


> This was going to be my other suggestion and sonix is having a flash sale right now. It could be had for $489. I think that's a killer price for this amp.


You think $500 for 1000 watts is a good deal? And it’s made in china. 
Seems like a rip off to me. Thing doesn’t even have an adjustable subsonic filter.


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## riceandpho (Dec 30, 2009)

i am using the rockford fosgate power series.
t1000-1bdcp
puts out a little more than 1000rms and can get up to 1500w


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## NastyNate (Apr 10, 2013)

jackal28 said:


> Thanks, I was looking at those, but they were a little out of my price range. The only problem is that I am looking for a pair.


Pickup this dc1100.1 I got for not much, buy another one new for 460, you'll be under your 700 dollar budget.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

DC/Hertz said:


> You think $500 for 1000 watts is a good deal? And it’s made in china.
> Seems like a rip off to me. Thing doesn’t even have an adjustable subsonic filter.


Thanks, I missed that important specs on the subsonic filter.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Again great ideas guys. The Alpine MRX is another at. The top of my list. The 110 or 120 are both excellent choices. The only other amps I've seen that are close to those are the zapco s in reference to those manufactures that provide the info. I believe the MRX uses great components along with an 8 layer PCB. And NO of course, but I need to call them to make sure they are mistaken on their specs as they list the RD, XD, and HD as having a s/n ratio of 50. I'm hopping that's a fluke and they meant channel separation. I am not completely against Chinese manufactures amps as I believe Fosgate manufactures in China as well, but it's still their design and choice in components as long as the QC is very stricktly monitored. Even Helix manufactured in China for a while. Although now days most of this outsourcing from managing QC is costing many companies more then expected and they are bringing them home. Not just amps, but companies like AT&T AND Pepsi as well have finally decided to bring their operations home. I definitely stay away from India dealers though as they have way to many fakes. 

I would love to run 4 ohms, but 1 the subs have been put together as 2 ohms each and given their configuration I may do more damage then good rewiring them to 4 ohms.

I believe 2 ohms to be the Choke point between SQL AND SPL. Again some amps are directly built for 1 ohm and those may be the exception, but I believe there to be a difference between 1 ohm stable and created for 1 ohm usage.

The only reason I'm not %100 on the U1A is that there is not to much information out there. So far they seem good, and I am seduced by the looks. Any one who has opinions about these I would be happy to hear them.

Thanks again to everyone's replies it really is helpful. This is almost the final part to the system aside from another TWK88 and possible mid woofer changes. Please keep them coming. I intend to compile these all together at the end and will post the results allowing others to be able to seek out good choices for subwoofer amps.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Sound Quality Level Subwoofer - or SQL is how Gladen has labelled one of their lines of subwoofers so I guess SQL does mean something to others besides MECA

Also, I car more about the designs, components, manufacturer, looks, and quality control, then I do from which Country something emerges. China is perfectly fine so long as the other conditions are met. 

I am curious about different or rare amplifiers which are nice. For example, although it does not fit within my budget/ needs, it was great to read about the MMats amps which I have never heard of before. I know it seems crazy that I am so adamant about Subwoofer SQL, but one of the tests of my build will be spontaneous rolling thunder, actually, one of my favorite songs has it in the background which cant really even be heard by most OEM systems. 

Anyways, Ive searched hi and low and most amplifiers reviewed are multichannel amps with regards to forums.

Sorry about earlier Holmz I was expecting a full on attack for not wanting less then 2 ohms. That being said, Gladen has some, high power, 4 ohm amps on there site, but I'm to scared to even look at their cost.

If you can think of any other brands that are pretty decent, please list them, especially if they are fairly rare.

Actually, a very strange amp which a few have found for very cheap that Helix made is the Dark Blue 2000.1 which puts out a huge amount of power, costs about the same as a Boss and actually makes the wattage claimed.

What makes me say weird is that on one hand, the have pcb's and ic chips often found in PG amps, they are designed by Helix, and they utilize 100% copper rails. That being said I reviewed the guts a little further a found the they also have the some of the worst quality capacitors ever created and their mosfets are from low to medium quality. It is also one of the ugliest amps Ive seen, but if you remove the 4 steel "decoration" plates its tolerable. What a strange way to make an amp. Lastly, it was quality checked in China and has been marketed everywhere from $1k down to $250. 

There are so many out there, I'm trying to figure out which would be the best to use 2 of. Is there a brand that I haven't heard of, is there something I missed, is there something about one of the listed amps that sets it apart. 

I've been trying to decide for almost two years and so far have three new amps that are decent, have been tested, but for some reason or other I decided that its not the amp I want to go with. My body has finally recovered enough that I can actually begin the heavy lifting stuff so this is my last shot at finding the bass amp that I'm sticking with.

The Zapco DC has been mentioned a couple of times which I was and still am considering. Im probably being picky, but what quality was removed or not added to a Zapco amp to get that power level, include a full DSP and still charge the same as an ST-1650 XM II model that produces the same amount of power on its own at 2 ohms?
(Also another amp I was checking out)

Anyways, amplifier advice, knowledge, etc. all wanted. Thanks guys.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Hertz has the Mille power amps about to ship. I’m
Not sure about pricing. It should fall in your range. If it don’t they are nuts.


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## NastyNate (Apr 10, 2013)

Paralysis by analysis. You're over thinking the hell out of 2 octaves at most on an information that you're fooling yourself into thinking only some amplifiers can play while others can't. Make your list 3 amps, then pick one. Otherwise you'll nitpick your list to death and end up with zany threads like this.

FWIW, the DC series sacrifice nothing. The reason they're inexpensive is because the board has been in existence for a bit.

You're nuking this.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

jackal28 said:


> ...
> Sorry about earlier Holmz I was expecting a full on attack for not wanting less then 2 ohms. That being said, Gladen has some, high power, 4 ohm amps on there site, but I'm to scared to even look at their cost.
> ...


Not a problem.

I am interested, as I have a low powered sub amp with 300W (4-Ohms) and 500W at 2-ohms... The desire is to be sound quality, so I am chin scratching and trying to use your build as guidance for myself.

I suppose with a name like Jackal I should through in a LOL, or is that only for a hyena?


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Thought I'd add another to see what you guys think Arc Audio XDi 2000.1 x 2 @ 2 ohms

Also, do you guys know much about the MMats amplifiers, besides just SPL and burps. Not big on the looks, and yes, since these will be the only visible amps, it is important.

Of course I'm nitpicking, I love car audio and amplifiers. I am trying to learn what others opinions of different amplifiers are. Also, what they believe makes said amplifier a good or great one.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Holmz, from what I've read, the best lower powered subs has certain qualities, the main two which I've noticed are sandwiched cones (normally two different materials with foam between them) and, of course, those with neodymium magnets.

I probably wont every use the full power of the subs, but if I have two subs and amps that can easily utilize 2000 watts, at 500 or 1000 watts total, I can be sure that they will sound amazing and avoid any chance at clipping or distorting due to abuse.

Honestly, 500 watts rms opens alot more doors for sound quality amplifiers.

I'm curious which would be better, an established company that is massive and world renowned such as Fosgate, JL Audio, or Alpine or a somewhat smaller company like Hybrid Audio.

If you haven't decided on an amp or sub yet, give me an idea of your budget and I'm sure through all the research I can send some ideas your way.

Personally, I want to hear about brands that I might not have heard of yet like MMats or even Hybrid (which I didn't know existed as of 3 weeks ago) 

There is so much out there and I am simply looking for what I don't yet know. The pursuit of knowledge as it applies to this predicament, but also to he helpful to others trying to build their systems.

Anyways, thanks again to all of you that have offered your suggestions and rest assured I take everyone to heart. If there is nothing I can do at this exact moment but plan and improve or delve into knowledge on a hobby which I truly enjoy then of course, thats what I'm going to do.

By the way, still undecided. Until I have the budget ready, I will continue to research. About 1 or 2 weeks left to decide.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

jackal28 said:


> Holmz, from what I've read, the best lower powered subs has certain qualities, the main two which I've noticed are sandwiched cones (normally two different materials with foam between them) and, of course, those with neodymium magnets.
> 
> I probably wont every use the full power of the subs, but if I have two subs and amps that can easily utilize 2000 watts, at 500 or 1000 watts total, I can be sure that they will sound amazing and avoid any chance at clipping or distorting due to abuse.
> 
> ...


Your approach sounds sensible to me.

I picked up an old second hand McIntosh 443M, so I am working the system around it, as I cannot afford a modern amplifier.

I do not (believe I) need super high output levels, so I am still unsure which way wiill go for a speaker(s)... Not diameter, not location, and not ohms.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Holmz said:


> Not a problem.
> 
> I am interested, as I have a low powered sub amp with 300W (4-Ohms) and 500W at 2-ohms... The desire is to be sound quality, so I am chin scratching and trying to use your build as guidance for myself.
> 
> I suppose with a name like Jackal I should through in a LOL, or is that only for a hyena?


Actually, I would like to say I got the name from the Egyptian God Anubis or that Jackal's are about the size of a fox, but insane and badass enough to take on a full grown lion, but honestly, I was young and had just watched the movie The Jackal and had signed up for my first yahoo email. Its still a "southwestern bell" account. Anyways, it just stuck.

Yes, I'm just a big computer dork who loves car audio.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Wow, with that kind of amp I could see the difficulty in deciding some type of sub to do it justice. Off the top of my head I would say something like audiofrog since most of their equipment is high sound quality, but doesn't really require much power. 

So from what I can tell you are going a more delicate route to achieve great sound quality.
Honestly, I think I would be struggling with 4 or 2 ohms also, but 300 watts or 500 watts can be a great deal of power. Sealed? How much room do you have for your enclosure?

My recommendation would be a nice 10" or, if running sealed, maybe a 12", but that also depends on how big your vehicle is/ trunk, hatchback, truck.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Holmz, Focal Performance Sub P 30F - Not this sub specifically, but this type of cone. You will get a lot more out of a neodymium motor though, that is, if the motor is built correctly.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

It is a Big truck.
Room for 12's I think, but thinking of trying a pair of 8's in the dash... I need some measurements but it will be a while as lots of work awaits.
Maybe a single 10 in the front...
Dunno. Been looking at Morels like truffle pig.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Holmz said:


> It is a Big truck.
> Room for 12's I think, but thinking of trying a pair of 8's in the dash... I need some measurements but it will be a while as lots of work awaits.
> Maybe a single 10 in the front...
> Dunno. Been looking at Morels like truffle pig.


Personally I would go with some sort of centrally placed 10 if I could. What type of truck is it?

You may want to try sealed as well. Yes, its not as loud, but for SQL it cant be beat, plus you can design it any way you would like to make it fit as the shape of a sealed enclosure would not effect the sound in any way. Also, a 10 is fast enough, but also has enough diameter to move larger volumes of air at a slower rate (lower notes). Unfortunately, the bigger the vehicle, the harder it is to reproduce low notes. Thats why most home audio systems don't hit below 45 hz. So, just my two cents, larger vehicle, larger sub. Plus 10s have always been my favorite. I have heard good and bad about Morel.

Morel does have lower sensitivity, probably due to its stiff suspension which should partially work itself out during the break-in period. Their carbon/ paper cones are great, but if you want more sound you may want to go with something with a little higher sensitivity rating.

Morel does make great subs, but I always believed them to be over priced for what your getting.

If you decide on sealed, you will need the rigidity as there will be a high level of pressure. Also, you normally want to go with an amp which rates as much or more than your sub and some of those morels take a large amount of power.

500 watts will produce some pretty decent bass even in a sealed enclosure though. I had a Durago (larger model) that I ran one 12 in a small sealed enclosure in the back and it sounded pretty good. If using a sub with a stiff suspension/ extra spiders/ rubber surround, don't get discouraged if it doesn't sound loud enough at first. Ive always used stiff suspension and once past the "break in" period the sound level doubled, if not more. When spending that much on a sub, please read the manual regarding the breakin period. There are alot of people who disagree, but it has been shown, time and time again to provide longer life to the subwoofer and more accuracy if broken in correctly. Those rubber surrounds are not always uniformly stretched and if you slowly break it in you can avoid the risk of damage by evenly wearing all suspension components. 

Why the dash if you don't mind be asking?

I believe you could do better with sound quality then the Morel's given the cost. You don't have to spend that much to get amazing sound from a speaker, especially at 500 rms (which is still alot) especially out of such a beautiful amp 
(where did you find it by the way?)

Im going to look around at some other subs a little more and get back to you with my opinion. If you don't like it, believe me, you can tell me to shove it. It won't hurt my feelings. I just really enjoy researching whats out there.

I believe you are looking for a different way to produce really good sound quality then I normally do, and with an amp like that, I don't blame you. Your'e going to want something that reproduces exactly what that amp puts out with nothing in the way.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

I still cant decide on my amp, but with what I have right now I think I've gotten the list down a little bit more. Ive heard great things about the MMats, but after looking at the guts vs. a lot of other D Class amps I don't know how it does it. Yes it has won alot of awards, but they all seem to be in the SPL market although they do claim SQL as well. I just don't see much of the distortion cleanup at the inputs or (Something I got from Stephen Mantz) the output phases. Also, at their highest RMS level the THD is around 3% which is actually pretty good when compared to some of the other larger amps like Sundown and DC which I've seen up to 20%THD at 1 ohm. 

The Hybrid maintains its .1% all the way to rated. The only thing about the U1A is that I'm not really big on purchasing a first generation electronic. It is in the USA so if they have good customer service then I'm sure warranty would cover any problems, but 2nd Gen is always best, but at that point it may be $800 instead of the current $600.

Currently my "fall back" vetted amp is the Alpine-MX12, if I can get it for under 7. Also, I still have the 2K Zapco in my sights if I just give in and run 1 ohm.

Any other suggestions always welcome. Also, if anyone knows anything about Bolden Audio. The amps look great, but if he's moved on to what his MSRP is going to be, they are out of the picture. Plus no reviews. All I know is the components are great, they are A/B which don't really lose near as much quality in the 1 ohm drop as do D class amps (besides temperature) so I may be able to work with one (still want 2 ohms though).

Currently I am looking at a 7 amp setup with back to back TWK88 dsp's. I've already got the one DSP, but as the system expanded, I will need one more, and I found out the the D8 won't cut it. I know its a little insane, but after my explanation to Crutchfield, they are very interested to see picks of the build in process and finished.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

You have headed down a road of hearsay that you will never come back from.


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## Naptownsoldier1488 (Jul 9, 2016)

Helix spxl1000 gets my vote 1200 rms 1ohm stable so 2 ohms is no big deal very nice build quality and can be found for under 700 I have one pushing 2 audiofrog gb12d4s never gets warm I've had the jl h1200 and that is all so a very nice amp but it did get pretty warm


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

What heresay, I read this from their own websites and catalogs, they are not hiding it?

Why do you continue to simply jump on the board to make negative comments?

Like the SQL comment earlier or Chinese amps.

I requested and provided help to others and that really the only thing that this post is all about.

Did you even read Steven Mantz's (Zed Audio) manual i posted a link to regarding 1 ohm?

Just because you want to run every thing at the lowest ohm possible and get an amazing burp SPL, doesn't mean others do.

I am taking what the manufacturers are saying and reiterating it. I am taking what experts like Steve Mantz who also does some design consulting for focal says and telling others. I am not an electrical engineer, but I am using the knowledge of a very well known.

If I say its my theory, its my theory.

Sorry, Sundown and DC only measure .1%THD at 4 ohms they dont say at max current draw or 1 ohm...my bad I'm pretty sure there is a good reason for that. It would be nice to know. I believed it was one of them that would have listed it, but thats not something most companies not to list.

Due to Robert Zeff - He has a tendency to remain honest and display all info.
Not TOO shocking-
KS2500.1 - Arc Audio Monoblock 2500W KS Series Amplifier some good SQL amps only when up to 2%THD which is only 20x the amount at 1 ohm vs 4ohms, but who cares right

Let go for facts. One of the highest reviewed amps with regards to sound quality:
Arc Audio Signature Series did list the massive raise in distortion at 2 ohms bridged which as you may or may not know is 1 ohm per channel,
*Max current draw 222 Amps @ 1600 Watts 20% THD*
Idle Current 2.3 Amps
Dimensions 19.5"(L) x 8.0" (W) x 2.5"(H)

This post was designed to help people. I am sorry if I got them backwards, but I would be curious to see Sundowns D Class amps Max Current Draw at 1 ohm is. We all know what their 4 ohm rating is. Good ole' .1%THD on an amp which they specifically say to use 1 to 2 ohms. Hmmm why do you think they take all of their ratings at 4 ohms. At the very least they are being sketchy.

That being said it is well known that as the resistance on an amplifier drops the distortion increases. Down to 2 ohm, a tolerable increase in distortion, down to 1 ohm exponentially worse.

I did not start this thread for a resistance war. I do not have to believe as you do. This was supposed to be a thread for help. To help me find amplifiers that are good that I may not have heard of before at 2 ohms. And to help others who may have questions.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

They will all do rated <1% THD at 1ohm. You can see that in the amp dyno. See it for yourself.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

https://youtu.be/npIfxDL8JCc

There are plenty more dyno test floating around. 
Marketing fluff can’t help those. It either does or does not.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

I still cant decide on my amp, but with what I have right now I think I've gotten the list down a little bit more. Ive heard great things about the MMats, but after looking at the guts vs. a lot of other D Class amps I don't know how it does it. Yes it has won alot of awards, but they all seem to be in the SPL market although they do claim SQL as well. I just don't see much of the distortion cleanup at the inputs or (Something I got from Stephen Mantz) the output phases.

The Hybrid maintains its .1% all the way to rated. The only thing about the U1A is that I'm not really big on purchasing a first generation electronic. It is in the USA so if they have good customer service then I'm sure warranty would cover any problems, but 2nd Gen is always best, but at that point it may be $800 instead of the current $600.

Currently my "fall back" vetted amp is the Alpine-MX12, if I can get it for under 7. Also, I still have the 2K Zapco in my sights if I just give in and run 1 ohm.

Any other suggestions always welcome. Also, if anyone knows anything about Bolden Audio. The amps look great, but if he's moved on to what his MSRP is going to be, they are out of the picture. Plus no reviews. All I know is the components are great, they are A/B which don't really lose near as much quality in the 1 ohm drop as do D class amps (besides temperature) so I may be able to work with one (still want 2 ohms though).

Currently I am looking at a 7 amp setup with back to back TWK88 dsp's. I've already got the one DSP, but as the system expanded, I will need one more, and I found out the the D8 won't cut it. I know its a little insane, but after my explanation to Crutchfield, they are very interested to see picks of the build in process and finished.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Yes they will all do 1%, but not at max current draw as it does a 4 ohms. Besides, this thread is not about a stupid resistance disagreement. Read the engineering facts which I posted early on. I as for help at 2 ohms on my system as it is the lowest level I would like to go. One last thin the with reference to distortion, efficiency lost, etc while dropping ohms to 1 or less. Apparently it is the D class amplifiers that suffer the most as the ohms decrease, not so much the AB. Seriously, read Steve Mantz manual of all of his amplifiers which I posted and he explains this in detail from an well known electrical engineers point of view.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

DC/ Hertz: So far you have made maybe one real contribution amongst a plethora of petty and insulting comments. As far as this post is meant for we are simply trying to help one another. Lets take a look:Starting One Day Ago


DC/Hertz said:


> 1ohm is absolutely fine. Even more so on sub bass.
> Don’t fall for the BS fluff
> 
> Btw SQL is a MECA car audio sound quality league. It’s nothing else.


Ummm...many of the subwoofers Ive been reviewing for one of the site members are labelled SQL which, by the manufacturer, stands for Sound Quality Level...I guess that would be something elses...Im lost on the BS fluff, 

Before this you were talking about Brazilian Korean and Chinese...which I guess was slightly helpful.



DC/Hertz said:


> You think $500 for 1000 watts is a good deal? And it’s made in china.
> Seems like a rip off to me. Thing doesn’t even have an adjustable subsonic filter.


Again, just bashing someone else's statement but nothing to add. Is that like your "think" you go on a board and talk about why everyone else is stupid. Honestly, your'e just making your self look work. Your so awesome hiding behind your IP address and talking bad about what other sincere people have to offer to be helpful. We get it you don't like China, but China's not the one designing, choosing components or PCBs, Quality checking or any of it for that matter except they have a lot of people and a lot of land so a manufacturing plant there is cheaper. Anyways just one more negative thing for you to add for no reason.

And one positive note for which I sincerely thank you and it has been added to my choices:
Hertz has the Mille power amps about to ship. I’m
Not sure about pricing. It should fall in your range. If it don’t they are nuts.



DC/Hertz said:


> You have headed down a road of hearsay that you will never come back from.


Oh yeah, there he is. Anyways, your last amp suggestion was a very good one and I thank you for it. I have no issues with you, I simply wish that advice came as advice. Thanks


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

jackal28 said:


> Yes they will all do 1%, but not at max current draw as it does a 4 ohms. Besides, this thread is not about a stupid resistance disagreement. Read the engineering facts which I posted early on. I as for help at 2 ohms on my system as it is the lowest level I would like to go. One last thin the with reference to distortion, efficiency lost, etc while dropping ohms to 1 or less. Apparently it is the D class amplifiers that suffer the most as the ohms decrease, not so much the AB. Seriously, read Steve Mantz manual of all of his amplifiers which I posted and he explains this in detail from an well known electrical engineers point of view.


So you didn’t watch the test? 
They do full rated plus some at 1ohm under 1%. 
You will see it if you stop getting offended for no reason. 
I’d rather see it for myself then read marketing. 
You do you.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Anyway good luck. 
I guess I should just start calling off different amps instead of trying to explain or show something. 
People tend to get less crap that way. People don’t want to be told what they don’t already think.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Now back to some 1000-watt amps at 2 ohms. Also, added in the mix is the best SQL subwoofers at 8" and 10". Very specifically SQL as they may be run at 300 watts rms or 500 depending on resistance. This is not for me, its for Holmz as he has a very nice amp and is trying to make a decision as well.

As of now a pair of 1000-watt amps at 2 ohms (preferably not to far out of reach with a warranty)

And for Holmz either a pair of 8" subs or a 10" sub as he is running one of the best SQL amps ever made. He's got 300 watts at 4 ohms and 500watts at 2 ohms.

Also, feel free to ask if your looking for something, but you don't know quite what. Thats what this threads for. Learning about new products that may or may not be helpful to you.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Sorry to see you go DC\ Hertz. Thats not what I wanted, but you may twist it any way that makes you feel like the victim.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

I’m good man. I just hate people getting screwed for no reason other then fluff. 
Once you get some swaps under your belt you will get it. 
I’m sure I didn’t want to listen years ago either. 
Don’t listen to haters or fanboys. Figure it out yourself. Take your time and do it right. 
But first get yourself a reference. You may find out you are going at it all wrong.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Thanks DC/ Hertz. I understand that you have passions about certain things and the unfortunate part about message board is that things can come across wrong when they weren't meant that way. I may be new to this board, but far from it when it comes to car audio. I was out of the game for about 5 years and Im sure you know how much can change during that time. Now I am doing an entire overhaul on my car and I am desperate to get it right. I have already set aside 4 amplifiers that I have bought yet decided against using. I guess I'll hit the classifieds when all said and done. I have been in car audio since I was 16 and am now 37 so I've always known the basics. I hate the fluff as well or as I like to say the B/S and lies that come straight from the companies which is why I ask these questions on this forum. Currently I have the design planned out and everything that I think I will be using purchased, but I don't have the sub amps nor do I have quite the strength yet to do real intense lifting and bending to install. I have been sick for about 5 years with nothing to do but research on a computer and when I finally realized that there was an end in site 2 years ago I began planning. I don't doubt it will still change multiple times during this time and installation, but I feel as if I'm finally getting there. My entire system is based on 4 ohms and although it would be easier on me and my budget to run 1 single ohm amplifier I have decided on running a pair. I will already be using two TWK88 DSPs to manage everything so I'll just go from here and see where it takes me. Honestly last week I was dead set on the Ti2 2000.1 Phoenix Gold at 1 ohm, but things change daily. Anyways, thank you for the input on that Hertz, I am reviewing it now and it looks like it will be at the top of the list. I liked the specs about the MMats amps, but something about them rubbed me the wrong way. From what I can tell they remind me alot of the Brazilian style burp comp amps, but who knows, its just a feeling. Thanks for the suggestion and best wishes


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

As I mentioned I believe in 4ohm high power and there a few that optimize their power supply rail voltage dependent on the resistive load like JL HD and Alpine PDX so they make the same power at 4ohm and 2ohm mono. The original Soundstream Tarantula did this with a sine sweep to determine the impedance it was going to drive and optimized the rail voltage.

I feel you and I are in the similar thinking set, pick amps that have a higher S/N ratio, high Damping factor and low THD and slew rate is in there as well. The one that checks all those boxes is the one and only Zapco C2k 9.0 (along with the little brother 6.0). Yeah it was very pricy and you can't get them new anymore except for a select ebay or hoarder, but it would be the one. The 6.0 can be had for less and put out [email protected] as well. 

Zapco C2k 6.0

2 -channel amp 
•Stereo, 4 ohms: 2x150 Watts 
•Stereo, 2 ohms: 2x300 Watts 
•Stereo, 1 ohms: 2x600 Watts 
•Bridged, 4 ohms: 1x600 Watts 
•Bridged, 2 ohms: 1x1200 Watts 
•T.H.D. + Noise: <0.014% 
•Frequency Response: 20Hz - 20kHz; +0 dB/-0.32 dB 
•S/N Ratio: >100dB 
•Transient Distortion: <0.007% 
•Slew Rate: >32V/uS 
•Damping Factor: >1000 
•Input Voltage: 1-4 Volts or 4-16 Volts 
•Dimensions: 17.5"L x 8.75"W x 2.375"H

How about them apples!!! If any other amps exist that have a better set of specs as a whole I am not aware.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

knever3 said:


> As I mentioned I believe in 4ohm high power and there a few that optimize their power supply rail voltage dependent on the resistive load like JL HD and Alpine PDX so they make the same power at 4ohm and 2ohm mono. The original Soundstream Tarantula did this with a sine sweep to determine the impedance it was going to drive and optimized the rail voltage.
> 
> I feel you and I are in the similar thinking set, pick amps that have a higher S/N ratio, high Damping factor and low THD and slew rate is in there as well. The one that checks all those boxes is the one and only Zapco C2k 9.0 (along with the little brother 6.0). Yeah it was very pricy and you can't get them new anymore except for a select ebay or hoarder, but it would be the one. The 6.0 can be had for less and put out [email protected] as well.
> 
> ...


Just so you know. That 1x1200 is with each channel at 1ohm. It goes against everything you just said.


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

I was referring to the spec(tacular) numbers the amp puts out as merely the bar. If the OP wants an amp to compare to and what numbers are achievable to compare, this would be the one. Yes the amp is available as two different models, so to retort the 9.0 would run TWO 2ohm loads at 1100w, so you could just leave one channel unused or whatever the OP wants. 

9.0 specs:
2 x 400W @ 4 ohms
2 x 1100W @ 2 ohms
1 x 2200W @ 4 ohms bridge


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

^^^. The long version of my suggestion... and I concur. 

If the OP is trying for a partilcular "matched" look with new hardware, then It wouldn't be the way to go. If he is looking for something that will do what he's asking for, stunningly well, and willing to Consider a single chassis, it would be hard to beat a 9.0.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Naptownsoldier1488 said:


> Helix spxl1000 gets my vote 1200 rms 1ohm stable so 2 ohms is no big deal very nice build quality and can be found for under 700 I have one pushing 2 audiofrog gb12d4s never gets warm I've had the jl h1200 and that is all so a very nice amp but it did get pretty warm


Nice call on that one, I'll check it out. Trying to stick with manufacturer for warranty and authenticity purposes, Ive been screwed in the past by "B stock" with the serial scratched off and glue everywhere so no I am very particular about where I order. Woofers, etc is good because at least they carry in house warranty, and most that carry in house are fairly legit. Thanks


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

knever3 said:


> As I mentioned I believe in 4ohm high power and there a few that optimize their power supply rail voltage dependent on the resistive load like JL HD and Alpine PDX so they make the same power at 4ohm and 2ohm mono. The original Soundstream Tarantula did this with a sine sweep to determine the impedance it was going to drive and optimized the rail voltage.
> 
> I feel you and I are in the similar thinking set, pick amps that have a higher S/N ratio, high Damping factor and low THD and slew rate is in there as well. The one that checks all those boxes is the one and only Zapco C2k 9.0 (along with the little brother 6.0). Yeah it was very pricy and you can't get them new anymore except for a select ebay or hoarder, but it would be the one. The 6.0 can be had for less and put out [email protected] as well.
> 
> ...


Yes, I believe we are, and I would have no problem if a couple of these were possible to run the speakers at the 1200+ watt level. Gorgius. Ive been mulling Zapco over like crazy, and as I said to DC/Hertz the effect on an AB type amp with a one ohm load (2 ohm bridged) is no where near what it does to a type D. I just assumed with my funds that a type AB with specs like that were out of my range.

Excellent suggestion though. I sent a message to Bolden last night about his AB amps that they just recently started shipping a year behind, about the cost, but if he's selling at his new MSRP rate, that aint happening. I dont understand how you come out of the woodwork (a year late) with some high power AB amps that you offered a preorder discount, but still try to start your MSRP at $2200 and up including a very Generic looking heat sink. 

Most manufacturers, even high end ones, offer discounts to get their brand started so more people can get out there and talk the price point up. Oh well, its not my business, but its just sad, because the Bolden amps seem like they might be up to par as well. Sorry, just a frustration.

As for Zapco, the ones that I was looking at were the ST series at first as they do provide a lot of power for a low price, but, besides just rumors about being a Chinese POS board, I noticed that every manual, once downloaded on the browser below the Z series the title of the manual in the browser did change to Chinese symbols. I guess their webmaster over looked this part, but it did confirm that any Zapco lower than the Z series (studio, bt-studio, etc.) are indeed Chinese made boards with a low level quality check which is why I have read about so many weird litttle problems with these D class amplifiers. Then again it could be just Korean symbols, but I don't believe in conicedences.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

knever3 said:


> As I mentioned I believe in 4ohm high power and there a few that optimize their power supply rail voltage dependent on the resistive load like JL HD and Alpine PDX so they make the same power at 4ohm and 2ohm mono. The original Soundstream Tarantula did this with a sine sweep to determine the impedance it was going to drive and optimized the rail voltage.
> ...


That is interesting.
In a perfect world the power supply rails would be capable of providing as many amperes as is required, so the 2-ohm would be twice the power of that delivered to a 4-ohm load and 1-ohm load would receive 4x power with respect to a 4-ohm load.

----

Ideally I suppose, it would be best to have the subwoofer's wires extend to the outside the enclosure so that changes can be made after the installation if one decides on changing amplifiers last in the game...


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

knever3 said:


> I am going to have to agree with the OP, I feel that a good amount of control is lost due to a drop in impedance the amp sees. That is why home audio uses 8 ohm drivers or even 16ohm drivers.
> 
> This is entirely MY opinion.
> 
> ...


Funny you say that. the Alpine MRX-110's class D amplifier has the best specs I've seen yet. I do like its older brother the PDX-M112 also, but they are almost exactly the same with a few slight improvements. Look at these specs on the 110 pg 12.

The second attachement is the upgrades from 110 to 112. Personally I'd take either. Yep, definitly amps I've been considering.

The only other D-class specs I've seen at these levels are the Zapco Z-LX series also around double my budget for what I want.

I don't know why, but full spec sheets on newer amps are getting harder and harder to find. Now they give you ohms, and if your lucky RMS. My favorites are the ones that just give you Max. GO BOSS AUDIO


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Holmz said:


> That is interesting.
> In a perfect world the power supply rails would be capable of providing as many amperes as is required, so the 2-ohm would be twice the power of that delivered to a 4-ohm load and 1-ohm load would receive 4x power with respect to a 4-ohm load.
> 
> Ideally I suppose, it would be best to have the subwoofer's wires extend to the outside the enclosure so that changes can be made after the installation if one decides on changing amplifiers last in the game...


----

Actually, its funny that you mentioned that, because Steven Mantz said the same thing. It actually should be double the power each step down. Heartier components used on some of the SPL amplifiers like Sundown Audio actually ensure this.

The power supply also effects this for example if its Unregulated or Regulated. I think its Unregulated that doubles each time. 

I could be talking out my A** here though.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Suprise, I didnt even think of that with the 9.0.

Ive been looking at bridged and mono to long. If 2x1100 would you just run a mono signal from the DSP to both inputs, or go ahead and make it a stereo setup. I asked this question before and have been considering it with two separate amps. I've done alot of research and it seems if you don't use a dsp with a mono signal then for a lot of the amps, they say to split the left signal instead of using a left and right. I always wondered why this was. If a track was recorded solely in a mono maner concerning the bass why would it matter if you split the left or split the right.

Forgive my ignorance, but is most of the Bass in the left channel? I know splitting the mono from the dsp would be best, but I've always been curious as to why the left channel is always selected in the manuals as the one to split to a mono amp. I can partially understand why you may not want to use the left and the right in one mono amp, but is there a reason for not running a stereo bass system if you're using two subs? I think my adderall is wearing off.

As for the 6.0 or 9.0 I guess it would depend on what I could find at the best price aside from my stereo question. If I go with two 6.0s and bridge them both then can I bridge two rights on one and two lefts on the other or should I bridge two monos on both, or finally should I just simply run left and right and left on both and let them bridge themselves. I know there is a difference between mono and bridged, but its starting to get confusing. 

Also, still considering the U1A, I just wish I could get a better spec sheet. Being a class D, I know it stands no where near the C2K, but it sure looks good.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Holmz said:


> That is interesting.
> In a perfect world the power supply rails would be capable of providing as many amperes as is required, so the 2-ohm would be twice the power of that delivered to a 4-ohm load and 1-ohm load would receive 4x power with respect to a 4-ohm load.
> 
> ----
> ...


JL considers it a R.A.I.D. feature on their HD and Slash amps, but I don't know why. Probably so no matter what if you want more power you have to spend $2500 on the next model up. I have seen comments like "check out the R.A.I.D. feature", but I'm not sure they new what they were talking about. 

Honestly I think its supposed to show that no matter what happens with the electrical system, dips in voltage, etc. the amount of power coming out is always consistant. Of course then again my power system should be more than enough to handle 1200 watts.

It is interesting though that if this "feature" is so amazing, why don't they add it to the most expensive amp they make?HMMMMMMMMM.Rockford Fosgate T2500-1bdCP


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

OK, I think I found it:https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Old-Sc...742210?hash=item21069b0042:g:xZMAAOSwAKxWYcMz

This one should do ok. J/K


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

jackal28 said:


> OK, I think I found it:https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Old-Sc...742210?hash=item21069b0042:g:xZMAAOSwAKxWYcMz
> 
> This one should do ok. J/K


Yeah that one is two 9.0's stacked on top of each other with different end plates essentially.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

...[/QUOTE]

$2500 - Does the thing do the vacuuming and laundry or make coffee?

No I know why I am using the old second hand gear.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Ok, so looks are important since out of all 7 amps these will be the two that are on display which is the only reason I'm worried about used. I don't understand some of these used amps. Whenever I took down a previous system mine were still in immaculate condition.

Anyways, something previously mentioned i dont believe that I nor anyone else is going against anything theve said. Please take into account all variables before casting false accusations. Besides why are there any accusations or insults to others in this post in The first place. The only way I'd consider 1 ohm or 2ohm bridged are if they are AB type amps. If you would simply read the sited engineer report from Steven Mantz, Type AB amp signal is far less degraded by dropping ohms then type D. There is a full explanation why in the Zed audio manual that I linked.

I would think as an "enthusiast" you would want to read that simply to expand your technical knowledge.

Also, given the specs of the C2K amps, any signal degradation would still leave specs that would rival ANY class D amp that I've ever heard of running at 4 and possibly even 8 ohms.

I would say that as for sound quality, I agree, these are the best two options that I've seen and I already have my eye on 2 c2k 6s and one c2k 9 pending the answers I receive are satisfactory. 

Of course on the down side there are still a few things that give me pause. One, I don't like the idea of fans, so I would feel the need to replace them with Cougar fans or Silentx if I can't find the eight size of Cougars. Two display is a big concern of mine and although the amps look fine I have yet to see one of the 6s and the pictures aren't exactly high res. Another worry is that on the black area of the 9 there seem to be a few tiney spots which look to be water spots. I don't like the idea that the amp may have been introduced to water. Also, you never know how an amp was treated when bought used. I wouldn't think that these types of amps would be used in a burp SPL contest, but you never know.

As for rewiring the doc's on the subs, first they are dual 4 ohm subs which leaves me with 2 ohms , 8 ohms or drilling in two entirely new speaker connectors as the wires are soldered to the enclosures original one topped with a great deal of sealant. Then running each 4 ohm at 500+ off the same amp in mono so that the signal and power going to the coils match. 

Sorry, kind of tired so feel free to correct me on my options if I missed something.

Even to do that removing the subs from the enclosures has it's own challenges. Right now they are positioned perfectly,but I put the screw in with drops of liquid nails. Which means that they would rip apart the current holes. The subs are currently wrapped in cellophane, but I will unwrap one if needed to show the extra complexity involved.

Although the enclosures is the perfect amount of recommended displacement, they were still about 1/8th of an inch to deep on one corner. I had to add depth rings of .5 inches which I then sealed with dap after using liquid nails. I actually had to find a special screw manufacturer to get the exact length of screw to travel through th e complex grill, the extension, then another 3/4" into the 1" mdf so as not to break all the way through. As you can tell from all of this I am extremely meticulous when it comes to my car and my car audio equipment.

If I do find an amp that I completely decided on, and removing or rewiring the two subs will help, then I will not let that stand in the way of the amp. I will destroy both enclosures and attempt, probably with futile, to save the grills, and purchase new enclosures, but right now I would rather not. 

I hope this explains a little better why I'd rather leave the 2ohm 1000 watt subs as they are. You guys already know why i dont want to drop the impedence down to 1 ohm or 2 ohms bridged (same thing) on a D class amplifier.

Also, just to refute a common nomenclature although that there are digital components on a D class amp as well as an AB class amp. The D does not mean digital in any way unless of course it's a very HIFI amp that only accepts toslink or coaxial and has a DAC in which case the amplification itself would still not necessarily be digital. Just like manufacturers that only advertise 1 ohm operation yet advertise specs at 4 (kind of reminds me of only advertising Max Power). Its up to people like these forum members to hold them liable. It seems a little sketchy, even with the high end markets.

Sorry, just had to mention that as I've heard digital amplifier mentioned WAY to many times. Especially by manufacturers. 

Thank you guys again for everyone's input, honestly I have reviewed every amp that everyone has mentioned and I have very much enjoyed doing so. By all means keep them coming and if you have any questions for me feel free to ask as well, as I do enjoy helping out others too.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

There is only one good option...

Pull out the speakers to rewrite it and shove them back in.
or build new cabinets.

You are pretty much backed into a corner on a single 1-ohm amplifier when you could use a couple of 4-ohm jobs, and it may be cheaper in the long run if enclosures are not too costly.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

I may have said it wrong. They are still each in their o an enclosure so options are: 2 x 1000 watt amps at 2 ohms each... 1 x 1 ohm amp at 2000 watts either provided by a 2 channel wired to 4 ohms bridged in a series 1 x 2000 at 4 ohms same as 2 ohms per channel 2 x 1000: a 4 channel bridged into 2 x 1000 at 2 ohms which is about the same as dropping all 4 to one ohm at 2 channels)a new zapco lx can do this: I think that's all the single amp options or the original idea which if D is the best 2 monoblock at 2 ohms each. I think I'm missing a couple more. Yes somewhat limited, but still ok. Just no way of getting 4 ohms per sub only voicecoil. The only valid option which would cause cor a rewire and not be too expensive would be each sub in a series to 8 ohms paralleled to a 4 ohm bridged load together from a two channel amp which would allow for a single 2 channel amp to run at 2 ohms, which I have considered. So far the dual amp option seems the best including the c2k6 or 2x1000 at 2 ohms each channel for a single c2k9. Good old ohms law. Thats the main reason the title is 1000 at 2 0hms (just double the amps). If I really wanted to save money I could just get 2 kappa k1000s totalling $500, or yet cheaper, give in and use the brx2400.1 loaded to 1 ohm which I already have, but do to my sql demand I don't think the Hifonics would fit the bill and the kappa has a tendency toward overheating and not sure about build quality.


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## banshee28 (Mar 23, 2006)

Naptownsoldier1488 said:


> Helix spxl1000 gets my vote 1200 rms 1ohm stable so 2 ohms is no big deal very nice build quality and can be found for under 700 I have one pushing 2 audiofrog gb12d4s never gets warm I've had the jl h1200 and that is all so a very nice amp but it did get pretty warm


I was considering this Helix amp also for a single 15" IDMAX... I dont hear much about them, so it sounds like it stays cool, but any other opinions?


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## lurch (Jan 20, 2014)

Have you taken a look at the audison UNO ?
Fits your power requirement perfectly and class AB. 
I run mine at 1ohm and it never complains or heats up, so running two ohm should
be awesome. 
i see these for sale at $500, brand new. 
Second hand they are usually $300-500. 

Anyways, more food for the thread .....


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

no one mentioned JBL BPX series of amps 1000 and 2200,1 would be really nice choice


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Haven't checked out JBL


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

I'm not a big fan of Harmon audio as it pertains to cars. The make nice ing amps, but the internals are somewhat fragile. Same reason > haven't gone with the infinity kappa k1000s. The JL uses 85 degree caps which isn't that bad, but it's not the best brand either. Fine in home, but in a tough car environment in Texas heat it longevity does worry me. I checked out the Helix SPXL which is nice. People are trying to compare it to the Dark blue series which was a mix some of the best components and designed mixed with some of the worst. Thought that was weird although I'm sure the soul is better. It runs about $8-900 new. One of the reasons I'm so picky. Is that these are the last components of the build so given my health issues I want something that my wife can resell if I don't make it to full completion (new or classic in good shape). If I am around long enough, these amps will be the easiest for her to pull and sell herself b4 selling the car. 

Sorry, not trying to be morbid, I'm not that old, but in the last 2 years it's been very touch and go and when I begin exerting myself no one knows how it can or will go.


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## jackal28 (Sep 23, 2017)

Sqxl not soul. Stupid autocorrect


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