# 2017 Civic Type R, Active front stage, Audison, JL, Hertz



## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

So I've finally decided to get moving on an audio build for my Type R. The biggest hurdle for me in this case is that I have to use the factory HU, it's just too integrated into other systems on the car. Right now I'm just in early planning stages and want to come up with a game plan. The factory system uses 12 channels: (1) 3.5" center channel, (1) 8" sub in right trunk pocket, (2) 6.5" front doors, (2) front 0.75" tweets in sails, (2) 6.5" rear doors, (2) 0.75" rear tweets in doors, and (2) 3.5" drivers in C pillars. The HU connects to the oem amp via an unconventional optical connection, the amp must be used unfortunately. The HU also sends voice commands and nav instructions through the center channel only, this raises some questions from me. Initially my plan was to have the pros tackle this one but in this case I have one thing on my side that I didn't have on my previous build: time, and another car. Also, this is a performance vehicle, I don't want to add a ton of weight, as of now, custom enclosures are off the table. 

My basic thoughts as of now:

Add some form of DSP to get a good signal from oem HU and amp
2 way active front stage (may consider passive though)
5 channel amp, maybe around 1000w rms total, 500 to sub, small footprint
Utilize factory sub enclosure with 8" sub
Add CLD and CCF to front doors and trunk
Upgrade center channel speaker but run from oem amp
Either remove or leave remaining channels running from oem amp
Amp/DSP mounted in spare tire area in trunk

I have a simple 2 way active setup in my 2010 Si using a Pioneer AVH-X5700BHS. It's my first active setup and is obviously simple and all controlled through the HU. I have no experience with DSP's but I'll have to implement something to get a decent signal from the oem HU. I can learn and I have plenty of time, car's laid up all winter anyway, don't care if it takes 3-4 months. This is the main area I'll need help. I read somewhere that for a case like this I should utilize something like JL fix 86 to clean up and sum the oem signal and add a separate DSP. Is there something out there that does all this in one package?

Like I said my plan as of now is to utilize the factory sub enclosure and install either a shallow mount 8" (really don't want to) or add some type of ring so I can add something larger. Kind of have my heart set on an 8" Alpine Type R, it's a nice driver, it's black, red, and has an R on it, would obviously fit the theme very well. There's a member at civicx.com that made his own kit for this and actually made a bunch to sell, that was like a year ago though and I tried to contact him to no avail, so I guess I'm on my own there. Pic below on that showing about what I'd like to accomplish.

As for the budget, I'm really hoping I can pull this all off for ~$2k or less, at least initially. I'm hoping I can get the signal issue sorted for no more than around $500. I need a signal solution first and foremost, then I'll choose amp, and drivers. For you DSP guru's out there, is there a relative simple, cost effective solution to what I'm trying to accomplish here?











Here's bae:


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## alex1002 (Aug 26, 2011)

That's a beauty of a car. I'm surprised the factory system doesn't sound good. Id upgrade the front stage. 

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## alex1002 (Aug 26, 2011)

Get a dsp with integrated amp. And some decent three or 2 way for the front stage. Check the forums for Deals got 2k you could do some magic. You may even stretch your budget and get some used audio frogz and a nice dsp. I got Hertz three way for my fronts with a decent Sony amp and an dsp. Sounds really good. Using the pioneer headunit. But mine is different since you want to keep the factory hu. 

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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

alex1002 said:


> Get a dsp with integrated amp. And some decent three or 2 way for the front stage. Check the forums for Deals got 2k you could do some magic. You may even stretch your budget and get some used audio frogz and a nice dsp. I got Hertz three way for my fronts with a decent Sony amp and an dsp. Sounds really good. Using the pioneer headunit. But mine is different since you want to keep the factory hu.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I don't want to keep the factory HU I have to =(

An amp with an integrated DSP would maybe do though


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

I just found the JL VX1000/5i, 100w x4 @2ohm + 500w x1 @2ohm with built in DSP you control from your phone. Sounds absolutely perfect except for the $1,300 price tag. Hell, pair that with the JL fix 86, add some JL components (C5 maybe?), and an 8w3 and call it day. That $2k got eaten up pretty quick


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## alex1002 (Aug 26, 2011)

w35t_fg2 said:


> I just found the JL VX1000/5i, 100w x4 @2ohm + 500w x1 @2ohm with built in DSP you control from your phone. Sounds absolutely perfect except for the $1,300 price tag. Hell, pair that with the JL fix 86, add some JL components (C5 maybe?), and an 8w3 and call it day. That $2k got eaten up pretty quick


That's why I mean check car audioforums for second hand. Save lots of $$_ and always like be condition. For head unit get one with Android or car play. 

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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

w35t_fg2 said:


> I just found the JL VX1000/5i, 100w x4 @2ohm + 500w x1 @2ohm with built in DSP you control from your phone. Sounds absolutely perfect except for the $1,300 price tag. Hell, pair that with the JL fix 86, add some JL components (C5 maybe?), and an 8w3 and call it day. That $2k got eaten up pretty quick


.

As much as I like the JL VXi DSP/Amps & FiX units, I think that the better solution for you in this instance is the newer Audison Forza AP F8.9 bit OEM Integration DSP/Amp combined with a small, inexpensive monoblock amp of your choice for the specific subwoofer that you decide on using.

If you find a good Audison dealer, you can purchase it for considerably less than the MSRP.

I've never been too keen to use the Audison DSP products, but this little Forza DSP/Amp solves a lot of OEM integration problems in one very compact package.

The Forza unit basically combines the separate JL Audio FiX _and_ VXi units into one compact unit, and the Forza has some additional integration features. For instance, it has built-in, adjustable speaker load resistors for the OEM amp which are sometimes necessary when integrating your system and not connecting the OEM speakers to the OEM amplifier(s).

Yes, you would/might have to add a separate subwoofer amp, but that may be an advantage if you later decide that you need to upgrade your subwoofer stage...

A single 8" subwoofer in the OEM enclosure will add some low end, but don't expect miracles from it. For instance, even in my GF's daily driver, she was not satisfied with the low end until I used FOUR high xmax, low-inductance 8" subs with about 1300 watts on tap. :-O (I needed to stick with 8" subs and not 10" or larger in order to keep the install stealthy & OEM looking).

And for her, it wasn't about wanting ground-pounding bass...it was more about wanting clean, articulate, deep bass, with great impact & dynamics. Even a really good single 8" subwoofer in its ideal enclosure and ideal location will struggle to provide that in 95% of vehicles.

The Forza DSP/Amp unit provides a DSP-processed 9th Line Output RCA channel to feed to a separate subwoofer amp (much like the multi-channel VXi DSP/Amps).

With one of the Audison DRC remotes, you also have the option to choose between four DSP Presets and select the Source among Master, Auxiliary, and the Optical Digital Inputs. You can also control Master Volume, Subwoofer Volume, and Fader (depending on how you set up your system).

This allows you to add and connect a separate, pristine source unit to the system in order to bypass the mediocre OEM head unit. For instance, a portable DAP that has Digital or high-quality analog Line Outputs. Or connect a high-quality Apt-X HD Bluetooth streaming module or the Mosconi AMAS 96k to the analog auxiliary or digital inputs on the DSP. I use my portable iBasso DX220 DAP for this purpose.

The NAV voice prompts and chimes/warning tones could still be audible through the OEM amp & center channel speaker.

Put as much of the rest of your budget as you can into really good Left & Right Font Stage drivers and proper sound deadening/installation. Personally, I would delete the rear door mids & tweeters, but maybe keep the C-pillar speakers (upgrade them with a decent small coaxial set or full-range driver) for some rear fill.

Factory door locations will work great for 6.5"-7'' midwoofers with the proper, stout baffles and good sound-treatment applied in the doors & door panels.

And fabricating custom sail panel pods in order to fit larger/better tweeters is really not all that difficult, and it's one of the least expensive mods you can do. It is also easy & inexpensive to put back to stock if done with some thought. Simple, appropriately-sized PVC pipe or end caps can be epoxied, molded, and painted into the OEM sail panel trim pieces with off-the-shelf products. There are plenty of examples in the build logs here.

Audison Prima Forza AP F8.9 bit OEM Integration 9-Channel DSP/8-Channel Amplifier


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

bbfoto said:


> .
> Audison Prima Forza AP F8.9 bit OEM Integration 9-Channel DSP/8-Channel Amplifier



Thanks for the informative reply! 

This solution definitely would save me some money over the FiX 86 + VXi combo which is about $1700 alone . Looks like I can get that for roughly $800 or so. Since it would also provide a processed line out for a sub amp I could probably get away with something pretty cost effective there, hell I have an Alpine MRP-M650 laying around!

As for the single 8" sub, I don't expect anything great. I'm a bass hungry listener, current system has 1800w rms fed to 2 12's. I listen primarily to rap and bass heavy electronic stuff so for me, the more the better. I'm hoping to start leaning more on the SQ side though and that once I get there, I can be satisfied with the lower bass levels. Ideally I'd like two custom ported enclosures in each pocket on the sides of the trunk housing two beefy 8" subs (JL 8w7, Sundown Audio SA-8 v.2, etc.), but I don't have the fab skills and I'm guessing that alone would run me more money than I'm willing to spend at a shop, at least at the moment. Also, that means a lot more weight and could mean too much load on the electrical system and require upgrades there (even more weight). 

As for the tweeters, most 0.75" will fit the oem sail location, shown in the photo below. I want everything to be easily and 100% reversible. I did make the PVC end cap tweeter pods for my Si though and they worked out great, obviously I could have an extra set of the A pillar plastic so that isn't a big deal. For now though I'd like to see if the oem location is enough. Though I have always wanted to try a 3 way active system, I just don't know if this is the right car to try that out on. 

I haven't landed on a set of drivers for the front, was leaning on doing al JL stuff if I go for the FiX 86 + VXi combo. I've never had any of their mid-range drivers and tweets though. I'm completely open to trying just about anything there, what are some of your favorites?


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Just bought all the gear. Budget’s out the window completely but oh well. 

1. Audison AP F8.9
- Love the expand ability, can easily go 3 way, add rear fill, center channel etc.
- Lots of power: 8x85w @4ohm, 8x135 @2ohm, 4x260 @4ohm bridged
- Should be able to to handle all signal summing and processing
- Tiny footprint, hopefully will easily fit under passenger seat

2. Hertz MLK 165.3
- Thinking I can fit the tweet nicely in the oem sail location
- Passive crossover filtered the tweet at 1.8k & 12db/oct, hoping I can cross close to that and have good 2 way results

3. JL 12W3v2 in H.O. ported enclosure
- Did some measuring and I think it will fit really nicely up against the rear seats in the hatch
- No fab needed, enclosure built to JL specs, fits well (hopefully), done and done

4. JL XD600/1v2
- 600w rms, supposed to cool and efficient, not much to say here
- Had an Alpine MRP-M650 that's also 600w rms @2ohm, probably should've used it but kinda have other plans for it

5. Lots of all the rest
- Kilmat CLD tiles, CCF, ferrules, gaffer tape, power/ground/speaker/rca from knukonceptz, loads of interior clips I'll inevitably break


I have some days off after the new year and am hoping to make some good progress during that time. I'm still not sure what to do about the center channel and I have a lot to learn regarding oem integration AND the utilization of a DSP. I'll have to get something to be able to measure output so I can successfully eq, don't know what to do there yet. 

Excited to get started though


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Use the iDataLink Maestro AR with the Forza to keep the OEM center channel for hands-free BT calling, NAV prompts, warning chimes, etc.

Unless you use a processor/DSP that has true center channel processing (one that includes a dedicated center channel upmixing algorithm) don't bother trying to use a center channel for your stereo music listening. It will do more harm than good. Just use the iDatalink AR to keep the OEM center channel functionality, etc.

Kilmat probably wouldn't have been my first choice for CLD, and I also would not use gaffer tape in the install. The adhesive will degrade rapidly over time with the many hot/cold cycles common in vehicle environments. I've worked as a Gaffer for many years and own/operate a grip & lighting rental company. 

Otherwise, you should be off to a good start wiith the gear you've selected. Take your time and install it all properly.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

bbfoto said:


> Use the iDataLink Maestro AR with the Forza to keep the OEM center channel for hands-free BT calling, NAV prompts, warning chimes, etc.
> 
> Unless you use a processor/DSP that has true center channel processing (one that includes a dedicated center channel upmixing algorithm) don't bother trying to use a center channel for your stereo music listening. It will do more harm than good. Just use the iDatalink AR to keep the OEM center channel functionality, etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input, I’ll look into the iDataLink Maestro AR, I’d really hate to lose the center channel functionality.

What’s the issue with Kilmat? It’s all just foil and butyl, hard for me to imagine one being that much better than another, it was cost effective and well reviewed so I went with it.

Thats a good point about the adhesive with the gaffer tape. Just wanted to secure the wires this time around, guess I’ll look into accomplishing that another way.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

w35t_fg2 said:


> What’s the issue with Kilmat? It’s all just foil and butyl, hard for me to imagine one being that much better than another, it was cost effective and well reviewed so I went with it.


As someone who regularly got yelled at by the wife for CLD that melted in the summer and dripped below the door (ruined a few pants), CLD is most definitely not all the same. So going forward I will only use high quality, known CLD. Since SDS is no longer available, I’ll be using Resonix from Nick at Apicella Sound who is a regular contributor here.


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## josby (May 8, 2011)

bbfoto said:


> Use the iDataLink Maestro AR with the Forza to keep the OEM center channel for hands-free BT calling, NAV prompts, warning chimes, etc.


I think you're mistaken, because their site doesn't list the Maestro AR working with any Hondas.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

josby said:


> I think you're mistaken, because their site doesn't list the Maestro AR working with any Hondas.


Yeah I noticed that too.

I really want to keep the functionality somehow though.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

dgage said:


> As someone who regularly got yelled at by the wife for CLD that melted in the summer and dripped below the door (ruined a few pants), CLD is most definitely not all the same. So going forward I will only use high quality, known CLD. Since SDS is no longer available, I’ll be using Resonix from Nick at Apicella Sound who is a regular contributor here.


Oof, now you have me nervous


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

w35t_fg2 said:


> Oof, now you have me nervous


You should be. Testing on DIYMA has shown they are definitely not the same. Now you could use what you have under the carpet or under the trunk where you don’t care if it melts but for the doors, I’d definitely get the good stuff. But besides melting, the performance of the CLD differs too so it isn’t like it is all about the melting but that is the huge difference between the best and lesser products.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Ok so I finally got started over the break but definitely didn't get nearly as far as I'd have liked. I only started the tear down and deadening of the front two doors and trunk. The third and fourth pictures below are before and after adding noico finising tape. Any of you ever use that stuff? I'm kind of wondering what's the point. I ran out of that roll real quick and they're $9/ea. I also have a lot of CCF to cover it up with I just haven't gotten started yet, though in the trunk I can't really add any more as I'm still using the foam insert to mount the sub amp.

As for the quality of Kilmat, it's definitely a bit lighter than others I've used before but as far as the melting thing goes, the sheet it comes with says it's good up to 100 deg C. Also, I searched the Amazon reviews for 'melt', and the only thing that came up out of 500 reviews was of someone that lives in Arizona saying they've had no issues with melting. I have 72 sq ft of the stuff so I'm gonna put it to use. I'm actually more worried that I've been applying it in a garage that hasn't been over about 40 degrees, guess I should probably hit it all with a heat gun and go back over it.

I'm actually considering pulling the head liner and deadening the roof. It'll be a ***** but I'm fairly certain the roof will resonate like hell if I don't. I'm not in a big hurry and I really only wanna tear this car apart once.

To actually seal the doors I'm planning on cutting a template out and tracing that onto some aluminum baking pans, cutting that out, and covering it with sheets of the kilmat, maybe even with CCF or more kilmat on the back. Also I know the speaker adapters are crappy but I plan on doing as much as I can to reinforce them. I just don't have much in the way of fabbing up some baffles.

Also, F#$% that gooey ****.


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Looking good. Maybe a little overkill on the CCD on the floor where the metal is thicker but overall looks good. And that is definitely a big door opening to close, it might even quiet the car some with closing that hole.


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

@dgage - what brand of sound deadener did you use that melted? Would be helpful to know so that others can avoid it.

I've only sound-deadened one car and I use Noico 80 mil along with Noico Liner (closed cell foam) and was actually pretty impressed with it. It's been installed for years now, on everything from my doors, rear-deck and even my roof (was having issues with headliner vibrations) - haven't had a single issue and the difference in midbass after deadening the doors was pretty dramatic. 

I would have absolutely no hesitation in recommending Noico based on my experience with it. Is it the absolute best? Of course not. Is it a good product at a great price? Absolutely - at least based on my experience with it.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

dgage said:


> Looking good. Maybe a little overkill on the CCD on the floor where the metal is thicker but overall looks good. And that is definitely a big door opening to close, it might even quiet the car some with closing that hole.


If you're talking about the floor where the spare tire well is it's surprisingly not as solid as it should be. Going around the trunk knocking that area still seems to resonate the most even though I put the most Kilmat there. The foam piece I plan on mounting the sub amp in doesn'tfit as well anymore, may have to trim it.



jtrosky said:


> @dgage - what brand of sound deadener did you use that melted? Would be helpful to know so that others can avoid it.
> 
> I've only sound-deadened one car and I use Noico 80 mil along with Noico Liner (closed cell foam) and was actually pretty impressed with it. It's been installed for years now, on everything from my doors, rear-deck and even my roof (was having issues with headliner vibrations) - haven't had a single issue and the difference in midbass after deadening the doors was pretty dramatic.
> 
> I would have absolutely no hesitation in recommending Noico based on my experience with it. Is it the absolute best? Of course not. Is it a good product at a great price? Absolutely - at least based on my experience with it.


I’ve actually never had any that melted. A member above mentioned that I should be careful with the cheaper ones so that was just me addressing that.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Super pumped about how well the tweeters fit in the factory sail!










Old vs. New


















Headliner down, S2k helper
Really hurt my soul seeing this thing ripped apart














































Wires ran


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Sub amp wired up










Using metra harness for speaker level input to AP F8.9










Cute little speaker wire pants for the midbass










Bonepile


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## alex1002 (Aug 26, 2011)

This project is really coming along. Wonderful work. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## josby (May 8, 2011)

That's kind of funny - the thing that prompted me to sell the S2000 I had was when I realized it had gotten to where I was mostly using it as a garage shelf 

What's it like taking that headliner out? I've never really understood what holds it up and would be afraid of not being able to get it to stay up properly once I put it back in. Also, does it seem fragile?


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

josby said:


> That's kind of funny - the thing that prompted me to sell the S2000 I had was when I realized it had gotten to where I was mostly using it as a garage shelf
> 
> What's it like taking that headliner out? I've never really understood what holds it up and would be afraid of not being able to get it to stay up properly once I put it back in. Also, does it seem fragile?


It’s definitely not my favorite thing to do. The headliner is mostly just held up by all the plastic surrounding it. There are also two clips in the rear. 

You basically just remove the dome light and reader light assemblies, the visors, and the oh **** bars. Once all the panels beneath it are gone and you pull back the weather stripping it’s free. This one had wires taped to the top of it, didn’t love that.

I was mainly afraid of how much I had to bend it to pull it out of the rear. Didn’t want a permanent crease in the thing. It went back in good, but I am having some trouble getting one of the hooks that the visor snaps into clipped back in properly.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Couple things I'm thinking about moving forward... 

First, adding some caps to the tweets. I bought a kit from Amazon and am planning on adding a 47uf 50v cap to each which should cut off frequencies below 845Hz by my calculation. I plan to actively cross them at 1.8kHz with a steep slope. These are more expensive than the host of ~$20 ones I've popped in the past and really don't want to repeat that. I read somewhere that 50v capacitors are good up to 70w rms, hopefully that'll still be ok for 85w rms? Idk, I've been doing plenty of reading on the matter but I'm not coming up with much. Hoping someone could chime in.

Second, I see that a lot of people here send **** loads of power to their mid woofers. I have the ability with the AP F8.9 to send 260w rms to each woofer. I guess my question is, is there any reason that I should or shouldn't? I'm not 100% sure about the power handling as it's a component set. The set is good for 150w rms so I'm thinking the woofer could safely handle most of that. Otherwise they'd receive 85w which is maybe too little? Obviously I can control the level but, 260w just seems like a lot.

I'm stepping up quite a bit component wise at least for me and just want to take every precaution not to damage anything.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Alright, got some more done today. Finished the deadening and sealing of the doors. I used a tin baking sheet and doubled it up with some kilmat for the big holes, it was SUPER solid, felt damn near like sheet metal lol. 

Made rough templates about like this and rolled CLD onto it. I honestly hate this part, I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing. 



















Kilmat around the face of the baffle, behind, and on the sides. CCF ring on front. Still cheap an kinda wack but damn solid I promise. Added egg-crate foam behind and the smaller ring from that kit we all know of.






























Front ring from said kit. Worth using or not idk, went with it.










Passenger side all buttoned up










Terminated the hot wires in the bay. Not as clean as it could've been but it'll do the job. Not sure if it was the best or worst idea but I decided on doing an 8ga run and a separate 4ga run. The amps are mounted in different locations and getting larger power wires through the firewall would have been a nightmare. I actually had to buy a right angle drill and make a hole for the 4ga (grommeted ofc). 










I found out as I was doing some double checking on adding caps to tweets that I bought the wrong type, the polarized variety. So I refrained from wiring the tweets today and have the right ones on their way from parts express. Really don't want to pop these.

I fired up the car and hoped the AP F8.9 would fire up as promised with the speaker level inputs and it did. Solid blue light, good news. Went through the configuration wizard and played some test tracks. Still not quite sure about the results, Idk if just the left and right mid level inputs will suffice at this point or not. Need to do a little research and get all my drivers hooked up.

More to come =D


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

So I connected the mid woofers and sub and decided to play some songs, still left the tweets out as I have no caps in place yet. Initial Impressions were pretty good. I played with the gain settings in the software at 38/40 volume. The software shows when the signal is clipped so I felt pretty good about where they were set. Even with the gain all the way down on the sub amp the sub output was impressive, mainly left that alone.

As I'm just going through some songs the output just stopped. I looked at the AP F8.9 and it was off. I thought, huh, that's weird. So I cycled power on the car, the unit comes on with a blue light, but there's no output anymore. After a little while it will shut off, and restart. I fear disaster has struck and something's wrong with it. I submitted a help form with Audison but other than that I have no idea what to do.


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## chasingSQ (Sep 25, 2017)

could be low voltage ?


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

So I'm fairly certain this $1300 amp is dead. I'm absolutely clueless as to what could have happened. My power and ground connections are solid, no voltage drop to the amp, no shorts of any kind anywhere including input and output channels. I followed the setup instructions per the manual to a T. The Audison rep told me they won't warranty it as I purchased it through a 3rd party seller on Amazon (they claim to be an authorized retailer though). The only thing that makes sense to me is there was a defective component in the amp somewhere. I'm currently sending the amp seller and hoping for a refund or replacement. I'm absolutely screwed if they deny it.


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

Status update.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Poor 


josby said:


> That's kind of funny - the thing that prompted me to sell the S2000 I had was when I realized it had gotten to where I was mostly using it as a garage shelf
> 
> What's it like taking that headliner out? I've never really understood what holds it up and would be afraid of not being able to get it to stay up properly once I put it back in. Also, does it seem fragile?


Poor S2000. Using it as a shelf.
Poor car. Brings tears to my eyes. ? I had 2 of them. I was 1 of the very first people to have 1 in the northeast in late 1999. It was crazy.


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

VegasStereo said:


> Poor
> 
> Poor S2000.


On the Civic, Brofessor.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Gen5.7Max said:


> On the Civic, Brofessor.


Was a great car tho gen5, for real. Could have used more torque but handled like a dream. ?


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

VegasStereo said:


> Was a great car tho gen5, for real. Could have used more torque but handled like a dream. ?


I drove a 5th gen for a few months. Like a big go-kart. Fun but yeah, certainly lacking in torque compared to my Y2K WS6 TA.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Gen5.7Max said:


> I drove a 5th gen for a few months. Like a big go-kart. Fun but yeah, certainly lacking in torque compared to my Y2K WS6 TA.


U ever think the S2000 will come back?


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

VegasStereo said:


> U ever think the S2000 will come back?


They brought the NSX back so who knows.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Yea theyve been talking about it for years now. Im in if they do. The car needs 300 pound feet of torque.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Although its 0 to 60 wasnt too bad at 5.3 5.4 times.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

The ws6 year 2000 did it in 5 flat.


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

VegasStereo said:


> Yea theyve been talking about it for years now. Im in if they do. The car needs 300 pound feet of torque.


A little electric motor will take care of that and then some while keeping the fundamentals (IC engine) close to original for the purists. I bet they'd have a good market if they didn't go too crazy with it like they did with the NSX and kept it sub $50k


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

VegasStereo said:


> The ws6 year 2000 did it in 5 flat.


A 5500lb 2013 W221 S550 does it in 4.8.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Yea they could sell them with 300hp 300lbs torque all day long for 40k. No sweat.


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

VegasStereo said:


> Yea they could sell them with 300hp 300lbs torque all day long for 40k. No sweat.


Definitely.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

What was the 1/4 on them again. Like 14?


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Cant remember


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

VegasStereo said:


> Cant remember


For the Benz?


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

No the s2k


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

Pretty quick. They didn't weigh anything. 



https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2002/1129745/honda_s2000.html


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

Gen5.7Max said:


> Pretty quick. They didn't weigh anything.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2002/1129745/honda_s2000.html


Lol. 153 foot pounds of torque. Thats what killed it tho. Once u knew that u couldnt take it seriously. Still i loved mine, n id lease one again if i had the chance. ?


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

VegasStereo said:


> Lol. 153 foot pounds of torque. Thats what killed it tho. Once u knew that u couldnt take it seriously. Still i loved mine, n id lease one again if i had the chance. ?


And that's what made it a bit of a sleeper. Do the math, it's power to weight ratio is on par with big power V8 AMG's. They rapped out to 9K RPM before they detuned them to around 8K or something. It held it's own.


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

No


Gen5.7Max said:


> And that's what made it a bit of a sleeper. Do the math, it's power to weight ratio is on par with big power V8 AMG's. They rapped out to 9K RPM before they detuned them to around 8K or something. It held it's own.


No dont get me wrong, on paper it definitely held its own. Power to weight for sure. 0 to 60 for sure, but it just never felt fast to me. I had an 03 maxima n it was way faster bc of the torque. Still as i said, id be first in line if they ever brought it back.


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

Hell yeah


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

??


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Wow nice thread jack lol. The S will get some action come summer time. And for the record that car makes you forget all about torque.

As for an update, the refund was issued, and I plan to purchase another one through an Audison dealer at a local shop. I’m pretty terrified to hook up another one for fear of the same result but I really want to stick with this platform.

I’m even considering having them fab up some a pillars for a mid range, the Hertz 700.3, and going 3 way. I really want to bridge the channels for the mid woofers and go 3 way so I can utilize every channel.

Also, I’m still not sure whether the Audison gives me a full signal from the just the mid inputs, may add the tweeters and sub to that, not sure yet.


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

We thought you jumped ship 

I'm having tweeter and mid pods printed by this guy as we speak:



https://www.facebook.com/PrintedAcoustics/?hc_ref=ARRNUh3FgqFh1KyqhLVYckSORcMpwjbndZPTS2eltc8Id2XzomOCeEHOppRyHypApV8&ref=nf_target&__xts


*[0]=68.ARAchC226gtSP0Dvol16qg612qlQ6QulMLuIOI5OT9AciIKNA4S5iaMHkEAsI2kDYJRMnOUadstzOk7hpuEQzY2W8WzYtbcztFP-DbwFa3ll19i0vC3P8qgoLmcOHNbCjU-Qpkz6UcPXs95522_4FYRvJJFEVRZPcuJqnHCLY4sPOYvjiHUS4A7z2mgwu-VY3x9rvi6-lvbEHmdsSkrEBhl9CDHzxG1YOlPyO987pJ8Da5dqujHzP7tBGw-LtKiL_Re83gWXFnSzyk8m_7bz46S9tg6WKusckVcG8Wck1AAcxNFjdf0&__tn*=kC-R


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## VegasStereo (Jan 22, 2020)

And for the record that car makes you forget all about torque.

Well not really, but I agree its an extremely unique car to drive. Id also say theres been nothing quite like since its departure many years ago.


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

Also, looks like that amp came down quite a bit from $1300:









Amazon.com: Audison Ap 8.9 Bit 8 Channel Amp With Dsp 8 X 65 Watt 1Xpreout : Electronics


Amazon.com: Audison Ap 8.9 Bit 8 Channel Amp With Dsp 8 X 65 Watt 1Xpreout : Electronics



www.amazon.com





Sorry for the segue  Looking forward to seeing this through!


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Gen5.7Max said:


> Also, looks like that amp came down quite a bit from $1300:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s a different amp, it’s the AP 8.9, It’s like 35w x8, the AP F8.9 is 85w x8.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Small update: replacement amp has arrived. Bad news is that I won’t be able to get back to it for probably 2 weeks


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Alright so I finally got the AP F8.9 installed, only had time to play it for about an hour over the weekend but my early impressions are VERY good! The output of the 12w3 in that HO enclosure blew me away. I'm thinking it being in a hatch and that it's a ported enclosure accounts for most of it but wow, my gf said it had more bass than the 2 12's fed by 1800w in a sealed enclosure in my other car and she may be right. I was really wanting to go with the w6 instead too but I'm feeling good about the decision. I played it mostly with the gain on the sub amp all the way down, I only turned it up maybe 15 degrees, it has an indicator light when it clips, didn't care to find out where that was. The Audison defaulted to gain setting (somewhere in the lower third, don't recall the value), it has indicators as well, I took it up a hair and left it.

I did some early t/a adjustments with a tape measure. I'm really happy with the staging in the driver seat, passenger seat not so much but it's not a priority. I still have a lot to learn in this world but honestly, I'm happy with how it sounds right off the bat. I bought the Dayton Audio iMM-6 (cheap I know, gotta start somewhere) and am going to use that to eq, otherwise I wouldn't eq at all, just wouldn't know where to start. Other than that it's just time to put the car back together and start working on whatever standoff solution for the sub box.

There will still be lots of room in the trunk. I plan to build something out of mdf that follows the lower contour of the box so it can sit securely into it and up against the back of the seat. I have banana plugs on the speaker wire and want to easily be able to remove the sub if ever I care to.










I really don't like the wire harnesses these use. Makes wiring a pain. I know they basically have to for the space. I cut the dumb crappy oem all weather mat, don't care about it at all. That picture is with the seat all the way forward though, it's completely covered with the seat in the normal position. I'm considering making a small carpet wrapped board that's maybe two inches tall to block anyone's feet from kicking it, though I can only recall one time in the last 3 years anyone sat there. I just put a few strips of Velcro on the bottom of the amp, that stuff is surprisingly strong, it's not going anywhere. Certainly not pro quality but it's decent for one of my hack jobs. 










One thing I ran into again though, I tried running the mid woofers bridged and the amp was not having it. It plays at really low volume but once you turn it up a bit the amp flashes red and the output cuts out. I really don't understand why this is happening. I should be able to run those channels bridged. I took a reading of the resistance of the Hertz Legend 6.5"s and got 3.5 and 3.2 ohms. Really don't know what's up with that. Maybe it's unwise to pump 260w to each of those anyway, idk. So for now I have 8 available channels and I'm only using 4, which will forever bother me. 

One funny side note is that my girlfriend decided to have a local shop do a full build in her 2015 GTI, presumably to spite me. We haven't landed on anything yet but as of now it's probably going to be active 3 way with a JL 13tw5 in a custom enclosure in the spare tire area. It'll probably be done sooner, sound better, and look better. I'm still pumped about it even though I'm likely to be super jelly.


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## oekundar (Dec 31, 2018)

Nice work and funny move by the girlfriend...women are good for such things! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

Nice build!

If she can do slightly deeper, the JL 12TW3 has quite a bit more output capability than the 13TW5 due to 10mm vs 15mm of excursion. A sub will have better sound quality (less distortion) if it stays away from its output capabilities and a single 12/13 with low excursion won’t exactly put out a lot of bass.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

dgage said:


> Nice build!
> 
> If she can do slightly deeper, the JL 12TW3 has quite a bit more output capability than the 13TW5 due to 10mm vs 15mm of excursion. A sub will have better sound quality (less distortion) if it stays away from its output capabilities and a single 12/13 with low excursion won’t exactly put out a lot of bass.


Highly doubt there’s any possibility of putting any full size 12” sub in the spare tire area. She wants to maintain full trunk space. Also she hauls me and my **** to and from the airport from time to time so, it’s kind of a priority for me as well.

I’m hoping the 13tw5 surprises me.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

One thing I forgot to mention is that I’m still using only the front left and right mid channels as inputs. The plot clearly shows at least second order rolloff at 80 and 3000hz.

Either the Audison level matches or my ears are very dumb because there is absolutely no lack of low and high frequency reproduction. I’m hoping to show this with my first go with an RTA soon.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

So a lot has happened since I last updated this thread. After the basic tuning and time alignment during that initial setup months ago I was reeeally happy with how it sounded. So much so that I basically just left it and went on with my life. At times though I would notice this odd smell that to me was like the smell of new plastic. I demoed a song with some really low frequencies and cranked it way up, smell got worse, popped the trunk and saw a good amount of smoke coming from the enclosure. That's just a picture of it in after putting the car back together, never got around to the integration solution I was planning, good thing I guess.










I backed off on the gain and did some more tuning. While playing around with it I got some crackling noises out of the passenger tweeter. At that point I stopped and took the car to the shop that did my gf's car so they could, if nothing else, analyze the input signal, see where my safe levels are, and set my gains with proper equipment. Long story short, I guess I was over driving the 12w3. The XD600 amp was actually putting out roughly 750w rms @40Hz and I guess she couldn't take it. They were able to recreate the crackling from the passenger tweeter so we replaced the Hertz 28.3's with the 280.3's, not used to spending this much on tweeters, oof. They also fit perfect though, not a fan of the silver ring but oh well.










Got it more properly tuned, and played around with different subwoofer options. One thing they did though I was really happy about was bridge my mid woofer channels so I'm now sending a proper 260w rms to the mids. Definitely quite a bit more punchy now, don't know why I was having issues with that, must've done something stupid in the setup.

Anyway, when I came back in they had me listen to it with the 2 Kicker L7's you see pictured before I knew what was in there. Honestly I thought they sounded awesome but the box is huge and weighs ~100lbs and is super awkward to pick up, really can't do it alone. I did love that the enclosure is done in black carpet with red embroidering on the top and red stitching on the surrounds though. Also, the box is trapezoidal, so the front is slanted back and when the box is pushed back over the top of that stupid hump, the front is basically at a 90 deg!










Ultimately I decided it just took up too much space and was too heavy. I had a prefab ported enclosure, an Alpine Type R 12", and an NVX VCW124 to play with while I tried to decide on whatever I wanted to do with the car sub-wise. I never had any issue with over-driving either of them even with the gain higher than I took it with the 12w3.










I kept getting drawn back to the kickers for some reason. I found out that their single enclosure version of what I just tried out was over 6" more shallow front to back. I figured with the added space, reduced weight, and hopefully more ability to take the power that it'd be a good solution for me.










I went ahead and bought it. Listened while driving around for a few days and had mixed results. Some songs output was great, others that I'm well familiar with with other setups were just lacking. I also must have a grille to ensure protection of the sub while it's in the trunk, I put this one over top of it and just hated it. Kicker grills are awful. Pair that with the 'new sub smell' as I'm going to call it, which made me realize I was in the same boat with this sub as I was with the 12w3 and just decided it wasn't gonna work. I never even took a picture of it in the car.

For some reason all this stuff had me wanting to go with a W7. The shop I've been working with ever since had a 10w7 in the JL sealed enclosure, we popped it in, underwhelming on the XD600, presumably from just not having enough power especially considering the 3ohm load. I managed to snag a great deal here on an HD750/1, so I did just that and got back into thinking about what to go with. I looked into the 10, 12, and 13w7 catalog and their respective sealed and ported enclosures. Landed on the 12w7 ported as being the best option but wow, didn't realize how huge and heavy that box is. Could've saved nearly 30 pounds and had over double the cone area with the Kickers for a third of the price. W7's just too big, heavy, deep, and awkward for this car.

I kind of realized I just need something custom. A box built for the car that'll make good use of the space, fit over that dumb hump that keeps giving me grief, and can be secure yet fairly easy to remove for any possible future track event. I decided to get the shop to make me a sealed enclosure for 2 12w3's. I had my heart set on a ported enclosure but figured 2 sealed > 1 ported. Plus 2 12w3's vs 1 12w7 is kind of debatable, cone area is king right? =} Also, 12w3's weigh ~15lbs/ea, 12w6's ~25lbs/ea, and 12w7's ~45lbs/ea, which is a factor for me. I think in the future if I want to upgrade I could pop in w6's and an XD1000/1 or HD1200/1. Sealed requirements for the w3's and w6's aren't that different.

I'm thinking it'll be done this weekend, really hope I'm happy with it. Part of me wished I just did this box myself. I've never built one before but I'm a CNC tech and have access to many machines and material lol. If anything about this flounders that'll be what I do next.

Car has also gotten wheels, tires, lowering springs, and some interior upgrades during this time with more in the works. Also got f*d by a highway crew mowing, the sent a big block of dirt and gravel at my car that flew accross the highway and I hit at probably 70mph. So that's what I get to do as soon as I pick it up from the audio shop, take it straight to a body shop. Car has 1700 miles on it and JUST got paint correction and ceramic. Gonna cost $650, screw insurance.




























Anyway, she's not done yet, more to come. Plus, what should I do with these two extra amplified channels I'm not using? I'd love to go 3 way but I'm not sure I want custom A pillars in this car, not seeing any other good spots really. Maybe rear fill? Center channel? Would it hurt to run some extra mid base in the rear doors? Idk, I probably won't utilize them for a while but it will always bug me.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Oh, for anyone that read my mention of my girl's system here's a couple photos. I wanted to make a dedicated thread here for it but they didn't send me hardly any photos or info. Most interesting thing about it is they (maybe metra?) make a dash kit for this car that integrates vehicle settings. I had no idea stuff like this existed, pretty pricey though at like $350. The oem signal was crap so we ended up going with a Kenwood DDX9950S, absolutely adore the display on this thing.

Car has JL C5's active and a 13tw5 in an enclosure in the spare tire area powered by the VX1000/5i. Not much to look at as I don't have pictures of the doors with the cards off and the tweets are in the stock locations hidden by the A pillars. Completely stealth build though and sounds really good. Just not quite enough bass for me =D







































She also got new wheels and tires as well as paint correction and ceramic, few other goodies too. We're ridin pretty fresh these days


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## dgage (Oct 1, 2013)

The Kicker square subs don’t have much excursion due to the difficulty in keeping a square shape with 4 boundaries in perfect alignment. Hopefully the pair of 12W3s will keep you happy. Nice build.


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## farfromovin (Mar 30, 2011)

I don’t know about 12w3’s, but a single 12w7 gets rowdy! Good looking install, the Golf looks great too, nice classy clean system.


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

Well the sub box has been done for a while, it’s not much to look at but it follows the contour of the back seat and fits over the hump perfectly, also retains a ton of trunk space, can still lay a full size suit case flat back there.



















Got some other interior goodies I’m pretty excited about too =D



















Honestly the system sounds great to me. I can’t help but always want a little more in the bass department so if I come across a good deal on an HD1200/1 and a pair of W6’s I’m gonna jump on it.

Also still would really like to make use of the two extra channels I have available on the AP F8.9 but I just don’t have any good ideas to integrate some mid range drivers, really want to keep the appearance moderately stealth. Oh well, for now I’ll just enjoy it!


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## udihamudi65 (Jan 13, 2021)

I'm waiting for my new Type R as well, considering 2-way vs 3-way front stage. Is your setup active or passive? Feel also fabricating the A pillars would be weird in this car. How about aluminum pods for the mids?
Hertz ML700.3, Aluminum pods for Midrange Hertz Mille Legend ML700.3 | eBay

Hertz Mille LegenML700.3, Aluminum pods with Grills for Midrange Hertz ML700.3 | eBay


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## few35t (Dec 10, 2014)

udihamudi65 said:


> I'm waiting for my new Type R as well, considering 2-way vs 3-way front stage. Is your setup active or passive? Feel also fabricating the A pillars would be weird in this car. How about aluminum pods for the mids?
> Hertz ML700.3, Aluminum pods for Midrange Hertz Mille Legend ML700.3 | eBay
> 
> Hertz Mille LegenML700.3, Aluminum pods with Grills for Midrange Hertz ML700.3 | eBay


I'm running the components active. It bugs the crap out of me that I have two extra channels available that I'm not utilizing. I've toyed around with the idea of making/having made some custom a-pillars. I don't hate the pod idea I just think it'd look like crap, I'd almost rather try to integrate them into the door panels somehow, maybe they could be put in the kick panel area somehow? Idk.

Also, I've never even had a 3 way setup, much less tuned one, and I'm pretty damn happy with how it sounds now. I never posted it here but I did make the jump to two 12W6v3's and HD1200/1 as well.

Thanks for showing me those though I may impulsively give it a shot anyway lol.


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