# Pioneer TS-D1720C Components...



## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

So, I finally got mine from Newegg. $120 shipped.

I expected pretty mediocre speakers for $120 and wasn't disappointed.

They are efficient, but do NOT get loud. Once you crank the volume up, the distortion gets bad fast. Also keep in mind I'm running 160wpc, and they are rated at 60.

The midbass is lacking; however, they are not broken in yet. They have slightly less midbass than the CDT 5.25" components I had installed some time ago. The cone size is slightly larger than Dynaudio 6.5s. Upper, tippy top midbass is audible, but there is no dig, no meat, and they generally sound as if they are crossed over much higher than they really are. Again, they are not broken in yet.

The midrange gets fairly muddy and confused sounding when playing metal or hard rock. Much of AC/DC sounds very off when the electric guitars get going. Something more complicated, or with more instruments, perhaps similar volumes with each other (Powerman 5000, worlds collide) they get pretty muddy, and have considerable audible distortion over about 50% volume. (Compared to say, my Dyns and Focal Utopias that soundrazor clean when played very loudly.)

Vocals are so-so. Some male vocals (Johnny Cash for example) sound a bit raspy. Female vocals, while not sibilant, do have a bit of a whishy sound to them. Vocals are definitely brighter than most sets. Well, the whole set is a little on the bright side.

I like the way acoustic guitar sounds - It's pretty artificial - even moreso than the Seas Neos, but its a pleasant sound.

The cone - is pretty stiff. Stiffer than most polycones, maybe slightly more flexible than Focal W cones.


Here's to hoping that they loosen up in a few days!



I pulled Dyn MW162s ran with Seas Neo Alums off a CDT crossover out of the car for this. The difference is monumental, both in the performance of the midrange and tweeter. While I never felt the MW162s had authoritative midbass, they were veritable gunships by comparison.

PS - The mounting ring on the basket is plastic. It's also very fragile.


About the test car:
Saab 92x (Impreza)

Pioneer something or other head unit,
Alpine PDX 4.150
Installed "stock style"
Doors done in open cell foam and raamat.


Afterthoughts: The mid sounds like its crossed way above its comfort zone. I think it would also benefit from being crossed over at 90hz @ 24db or above.

Tweeters might do well in a kick panel type install.

The basket is stamped, but it's also heavier than I would expect a stamped basket to be. +1


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## Dr.Telepathy SQ (Nov 17, 2007)

I will say that I've sined with this comp set. Rarely would I tell someone to buy a comp set and dump the passive crossover, but at the price point of this set, it's not much of a loss. Instead, it's needed.

This can be a good comp set provided the installer has decent tuning skills. Once dialed in, the overall value is better than the PG RSD's in terms of overall warmth. Yes, the PG's will get louder and have more midbass, but that's basicly the only strong suite of the PG RSD's, the ability to get loud.

Often, the idea is that the tweeter is crossover too low. The tweeter can handle lower crossover points, [email protected] db. The output of the tweeter needs to be cut, even more so if ran on axis. I would say it's best to mount this tweeter off axis. The tweeter needs cuts between 3K-5K, and a small boost between 12K-16K. Again, it all comes down to the install. It's a love/hate relationship with the tweeter. 

The mid, it takes some time to make adjustments. At all cost, keep the mid under 2.5K, closer to 2K if possible. There is a break up node somewhere between 2.5K-3K area. This mid doesn't like to played very high. In many ways, the performace reminds me of metal cone woofers. The harshness that many think is within the tweeter region is within the mid area between 1k-2.5k. This area needs to be cut with a serious purpose. Yes, M-CE is correct, midbass is lacking at first. It will loosen up with break in, but a subwoofer is in order for any material bellow 60hz.

For less than $125, it's a decent set if you need tweets and midbass drivers on a tight budget. Just keep in mind that the set needs a good amount of tuning, but noobs need to learn how to tune anyway.


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## hans030390 (Jun 23, 2008)

Dr.Telepathy SQ said:


> For less than $125, it's a decent set if you need tweets and midbass drivers on a tight budget. Just keep in mind that the set needs a good amount of tuning, but noobs need to learn how to tune anyway.


Just for future reference, what component set in that price range would you recommend for noobs who can't tune/don't know how to/just don't want to? You know, drop it in, hook it up to a decent amp, use the included crossovers, maybe do some deadening, etc...? Preferably something where the tweeters are fairly smooth.


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

After moving crossover to 63hz (which they didnt seem to mind) and boosting 80 & 125, they now have audible (but not impressive) midbass. Also dropped everything from 2k-10k by 1-3db, and they sound much better.


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## rekd0514 (Sep 24, 2006)

Your review surprises me. I thought for sure this set would get reviews as good as the PRS set, but I guess I was wrong. I kinda figured there wasn't going to be a whole lot of difference in them. Have you heard the PRS set by chance? Thanks for letting us know what you think of em. My brother has the RSDs, and I wasn't really too impressed with them either. He needs to get his doors dampened first though. I can't make a comparison since I haven't heard these though.


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

I haven't heard the PRS set, so I don't know if these sound similar or not.

For $100... They aren't a bad choice. If I had paid msrp of $220 I'd be a little annoyed.


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## Generalg (Aug 4, 2008)

WTF.... newegg raised the price to $220! Go figure... I was going to buy a set for $99, but now forget it. Dangit!


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## Generalg (Aug 4, 2008)

Found them for $99 still at http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12224_Pioneer+TS-D1720C.html

BUT the question is are they worth it over the RSD's??? I have the RSD's already, but haven't installed them yet.... uuuurrrrr


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

Generalg said:


> WTF.... newegg raised the price to $220! Go figure... I was going to buy a set for $99, but now forget it. Dangit!


I've seen Newegg have weirdly low prices for a short amount of time and go up (but not mark the item on sale.) 

You can still get them for 100 at Buy.com


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## Foglght (Aug 2, 2007)

hans030390 said:


> Just for future reference, what component set in that price range would you recommend for noobs who can't tune/don't know how to/just don't want to? You know, drop it in, hook it up to a decent amp, use the included crossovers, maybe do some deadening, etc...? Preferably something where the tweeters are fairly smooth.


http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6179

I like these for an intro speaker set.


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## jomo (Mar 4, 2007)

Dr.Telepathy SQ said:


> I will say that I've sined with this comp set. Rarely would I tell someone to buy a comp set and dump the passive crossover, but at the price point of this set, it's not much of a loss. Instead, it's needed.
> 
> This can be a good comp set provided the installer has decent tuning skills. Once dialed in, the overall value is better than the PG RSD's in terms of overall warmth. Yes, the PG's will get louder and have more midbass, but that's basicly the only strong suite of the PG RSD's, the ability to get loud.
> 
> ...


If you must use the crossover (limited means to tune), you can improve most of the crossover problems areas with pretty simple mods. Adding a Zobel network to the woofer and reducing the cap in the tweeter network should do the trick. The first mod crosses the woofer at about 2kHz with less breakup audibility (but only 12 dB per octave). The second mod will reduce the tweeter output and removes much of the peak near 4-5 kHz. I'll let you know what final values I find best for a Mazda 3 this weekend...


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## hans030390 (Jun 23, 2008)

Foglght said:


> http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6179
> 
> I like these for an intro speaker set.


Do they sound pretty good? A lot of people have pretty negative comments about their (newer) Hex components, so I figured for budget/intro comps you could do better. That, and the Hex tweeters were pretty bright. How are these?


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

After breakin, the midbass is "OK" but these are still very shrill speakers, with noticeable midrange harshness, even after EQ. Not bad for $100. Not a good deal at any more than that.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I have a set of $95 eD 6000v2 comps that you can audition if you'd like. I pulled them out of my Scion last week. Let me know if you want to have a listen to them. I actually think that they're pretty decent for the money.


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

I'll probably just live with the pioneers. I bought them so I could sell my Dyns, but it looks like the dyn used market is soft anyway now.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Sell the Dyns? So what will be going in the Vette if the Dyns aren't in there??


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## jomo (Mar 4, 2007)

MidnightCE said:


> After breakin, the midbass is "OK" but these are still very shrill speakers, with noticeable midrange harshness, even after EQ. Not bad for $100. Not a good deal at any more than that.



If you are using the passive crossover, you should modify this crossover first, then EQ after the modification for decent results. I think the tweeter is crossed too low for a 2nd order slope and you get distortion in the low end of it's range. It's also very hot, even at -3dB. On top of that, the woofer is crossed a bit high with some upper midrange peaks.

I modified the crossover this weekend by replacing the 6.8uF cap with a 3uF cap. This reduced the tweeter output, raised the crossover frequency, smoothed the response and lowered the distortion. I ran the tweeter after the mod on the +0 dB input as this raised the output above 8kHz which is ok for me because the tweeters are off axis in my install.

The next step was to add a Zobel network in parallel with the woofer (10uF cap + 4.7 ohm resistor). This reduced the peak around 2kHz a couple dB, but more significantly reduced the output above 4kHz by about 4dB.

After such a mod, you should be able to make these speakers sound better as you are not equalizing so much distortion.

The best solution for these speakers would be to go active with steeper slopes, but for those without this luxury, this crossover mod is a good start.


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

Boostedrex said:


> Sell the Dyns? So what will be going in the Vette if the Dyns aren't in there??


My 6.5 dyns I started out with. Vette will keep the 8" dyns. I'm tired of messing with that particular system...



Only reason I dont go active on those right now.. is I dont have a KCA420i for my spare 9855


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## an2ny888 (Jun 27, 2008)

jomo, do you have pics of the modded xovers? did the mods a huge difference?


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

I would like to see pics too. I just got a brand new soldering iron and I'm itching to use it.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

MidnightCE said:


> I would like to see pics too. I just got a brand new soldering iron and I'm itching to use it.


I can help you out with that problem soon enough my friend! I'm about to buy a butt load of raw cable to make my own RCA's with as I'm tired of the induced noise that the "car audio super specific infused with snake oil" ones that I have now are providing me with. 

Back on topic, how low do you have the mids crossed over on this set now?


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

Boostedrex said:


> I can help you out with that problem soon enough my friend! I'm about to buy a butt load of raw cable to make my own RCA's with as I'm tired of the induced noise that the "car audio super specific infused with snake oil" ones that I have now are providing me with.
> 
> Back on topic, how low do you have the mids crossed over on this set now?


I'd love to make my own RCA cables...


Right now I'm at 63hz @ 12db. I'd prefer 24db but this pioneer doesn't do it. If I ever see you at Marinobles you can take a listen to them. I don't drive the vette because my left knee is useless after working out.


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## jomo (Mar 4, 2007)

an2ny888 said:


> jomo, do you have pics of the modded xovers? did the mods a huge difference?


Sorry, no pictures as the crossovers are installed. I just removed the 6.8 uF cap and replaced it directly with a 3.0 uF film cap. I found that this sounded and measured pretty good. I tried 2.2 NP electrolytic cap (too much attenuation and midrange "hole") and a 5.0 film cap (too little effect) as well. For the Zobel network, there is not much room in the crossover, so I wired the woofer from the crossover (inside door) to the Zobel (outside door) and back to the woofer (inside door).

With regard to the sound, definately less harsh. I have a midrange adjustment (1kHz) on my stock HU set at -2 dB which helps flatten the response as well. There is a minor dip around 3.15 kHz due to the mods, but nothing significant. For my install, the tweeter still needs a bit less output but I can live with it for now.

Try at least the 3.0 cap. It makes a healthy difference.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I'll be at the grappling tournament on September 6th. You should come out and watch too. I won't be competing due to the injury, so we'll have plenty of time to listen to each other's cars while we're there. 

And if you want, we can split up the cost of the cable I'm buying. I have to buy a minimum of 500ft of it because otherwise it doesn't cost enough to meet the company's $50 order limit.  I think that 500' will cover my xB, your Saab, and the Vette. LOL!


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

Does it cost to attend the tourney?

I might buy some from you, not sure how much. Not 250' hehe. The Vette is all done, but the Saab has a pair of cables that are way to short as it is...


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

I think that it's usually $5-10 to attend.


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## inPhase (Apr 6, 2008)

Sorry for bringing back an old thread, but I just came across this and thought I'd share my own personal review. It's interesting to read the different opinions from people with the same set of speakers and I think it goes to show that there are too many factors at play (differences in install, car acoustics, processing, etc.) that can determine a speaker system's overall performance.

This was CAE's take on the TS-D's - http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/CAE720Review.pdf

And this was my own review that I posted on CarAudio.com Forum:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
...

Here's how they were installed in the doors, which were already sealed, deadened, and 'sludged' from my last install. Also used the same 3/4" MDF baffle which accommodated the mids perfectly. I tried different tweeter placements and I found that they sounded best close to the mid angled slightly upwards, so I mounted them in a 'braxial' configuration.





































*Subjective Review*

*System setup:*

Clarion DXZ785USB -> Alpine MRP-F250 bridged for 100WRMS @ 4 Ohms x 2

*Sound:*

Immediate impressions were good. Great clarity, accurate response, and good tonality. Low end response and midbass were good and more than adequate. Not as exaggerated or peaky like the PG RSd's that I used before, but instead more balanced with quicker attack and less overhang. Midrange and upper end details are where the TS-D's really shine. Music and vocals sounded lively and came through with very nice presence. 

- I do have the ability to run active, but I chose to start off with the Pioneer passive crossovers. I'm happy with the sound as is, so I don't intend to go active anytime soon.

*Conclusion:*

For about $120, these speakers are money well spent. Sound quality and build quality exceeded my expectations.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wrote that review a few days ago and I realized I left out some things. HP filter was set @ 63hz 18dB/oct. The only adjustments I made with my paraEQ were: -4dB @ 2kHz, +2dB @ 80Hz. The tweeter settings on the passives were at -3dB as well.


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## Silverfire (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks 
good review


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## normalicy (Jun 30, 2009)

> Sorry for bringing back an old thread, but I just came across this and thought I'd share my own personal review. It's interesting to read the different opinions from people with the same set of speakers and I think it goes to show that there are too many factors at play (differences in install, car acoustics, processing, etc.) that can determine a speaker system's overall performance.
> 
> This was CAE's take on the TS-D's - http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...E720Review.pdf
> 
> And this was my own review that I posted on CarAudio.com Forum:


Tell me about it. I have these & am thoroughly impressed with them and I have used many higher end speakers to compare them to. However, I didn't even bother hooking up the passive crossover, so I don't know if that's a weak point or not. I feel that the midbass is pretty strong (though I have experienced stronger). However, they are one of the clearest sounding (no extreme peaks at any frequency) sets I've experienced.

I think it says something when if someone were to offer me a set of higher end MB Quarts in exchange that I wouldn't feel it worth pulling the Pioneers out.


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