# 10AE Miata Install



## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

I started my Miata install yesterday. Here are a few pics to get you going.

If you see anything that needs to be changed let me know before I get to far.

Equipment:










Headunit Prewired:










Deadener applied to outer skin:










Tomorrow's work area:










The factory ground was just an 8ga cable, I happened to have some 8ga laying around so I decided to double it up. Prepped the area by sanding the paint off the factory grounding point and smearing some dielectric grease on the connection point where the new and old ground attach to the body. (Since my amp is about 18" away from this point, should I use this as my amp ground or use a bolt that is about 4"s away from the amp and just do the same prep?)










Had to remove the doors to run 2 sets of speaker cable. This also required rewiring the lock actuator, since I used the same cable routing method I used before, I did not have any room left in the connector to drill new holes. I expanded the hole the actuators wires were using for speaker wire and switched the actuator wires over to factory speaker wires.










Speaker wire being run through the factory molex connector. (sorry, the pic is blurry, but this was the best shot that came out, if any one needs more detailed pics of the process let me know)










3/4" MDF baffle with factory Bose water shield.










My stopping point for the night... headunit/bluetooth/xm/iPod/GPS ant. all installed; doors with 2 layers (4 directly behind speaker) deadener on outerskin; RCA and speaker cables all pulled to trunk; baffles and water shields mounted to the doors:









Tomorrow should have me finished with the amp rack, door panel deadener, make a dent into the sub box, and have some music playing.

Stay Tuned...


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

Seems like your getting in a lot of gear in a small space. Like that.

Love the Miata, even rented one for our honeymoon in Tuscany...

Any plans on how to do the sub?


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## ~Magick_Man~ (Jul 11, 2006)

do you really think the whispers will keep up with the sls's?
i have sls's in my can and i just don't see it happening.
but more power to you if you can pull it off.

~Magick_Man~


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

Rbsarve said:


> Any plans on how to do the sub?


I have been planning on using the space on the left of the trunk, and build a super complicated box out of 3/4" MDF, but after wasting almost a half sheet of MDF that plan was scrapped. As soon as my camera finishes charging I'll take a few more pics to show the new plan.



~Magick_Man~ said:


> do you really think the whispers will keep up with the sls's?


Another forum member has the same exact setup in his Miata (minus the sub) and was the one that steered me in that direction. I had the system playing today (again w/o sub) and the Whispers had no problems keeping up with the SLS. It may be the amount of power the SLS are getting or I have just nailed my XO points, but I love the way it sounds. It is lacking just a bit in the 12K and up range, but with a convertible that does most of its duty with the top down I don't really think its going to make a difference. I do have a set of the Alpine AT19 tweeters minus the flush cups that could be added in a pinch.

Maybe someone can chime in on this, I was setting my gains by ear today and with the head unit at 7/8 volume and a Chesky disc in that I listen to a lot, I couldn't detect my mid channels clipping or distorting at all. Right now I have the gain set at max minus about 1/16th to 1/8th of a turn down. Is this right? Does JL make that nice of equipment that I can't clip my mids, or are my ears just jacked from 19 years of playing in a jazz band and standing in front of screeching trumpets?


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## 02bluesuperroo (Oct 31, 2006)

What's the output voltage on that Pioneer unit? If it's only 2v (which I doubt but maybe  ) you might need the gain that high. Measure the AC output voltage at the amp to see about what the amp should be pushing wattage wise. If you're around the rated power and it sounds fine to you then I wouldn't worry about it too much. Clipping on mids/highs is pretty easy to hear.

Also, with a regulated power supply like that you will be making much less power if your charging system isn't up to snuff. What kind of charging system setup do you have?


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

Today's updates.

Got most of the interior back in, except I forgot the insulation that goes around the shifter so I'll be pulling that out tomorrow.










Amp installed. I had built a wall that had the amp on it, but it impaired me being able to get the spare out. My last Miata had the spare removed for audio gear and I got screwed with a blow out 150miles from home at 2am not fun at all! The MDF mounting strip will be painted black or covered in carpet.










The sub's new enclosure:

I want to incorporate this plastic tub into the enclosure since the air space is limited and I need all I can get, but I don't know how to go about it. If I glass it in during the mold phase the mold won't come out. Thinking I should cover it up, make a lip on the mold, then when I'm done with the back of the box rivet it to the FG and put a coat of resin on it, or just seal it with marine sealant. 










MDF Baffle for the sub enclosure. Will be carpeted to match.









Depending on how this sub works in the smaller space, I may switch it out with another 10"










That's it for tonight, tomorrow will bring my first ever adventure into the world of fiberglass enclosures.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

02bluesuperroo said:


> What's the output voltage on that Pioneer unit? If it's only 2v (which I doubt but maybe  ) you might need the gain that high. Measure the AC output voltage at the amp to see about what the amp should be pushing wattage wise. If you're around the rated power and it sounds fine to you then I wouldn't worry about it too much. Clipping on mids/highs is pretty easy to hear.


The AVIC does push 2v, the JL has a switch to regulate the pre-out voltage .2v-2v and then 2.1v-8v, so now that I think about it the gain is where it should be.



> Also, with a regulated power supply like that you will be making much less power if your charging system isn't up to snuff. What kind of charging system setup do you have?


Charging system is stock, I do have an HKS earthing system so my grounds are up to snuff and I doubled up the battery to body ground. As far as the alt. output, I haven't a clue but with everything on (amp, head, brights, wipers, a/c) the head unit is showing voltage as 14.8v and when there is a hard bass thump it dips to 14.6v.

The amp has 4ga from the battery to a 50amp fuse total length is about 16", ground is also 4ga with total length about 3" (luckly there was a bolt directly beneath the ground input on the amp, that goes into the rear frame section. The bolt also holds down the gas tank filler sheet-metal panel that is secured at 3 points. I sanded the paint off all 3 of those points so the panel kind of acts like a giant grounding block.


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

Are you cutting up any metal between the trunk and the "cabin"? 

Elsewise that sub will mostly just rattle your trunk lid...


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Make sure you cover the rest of your opening and outside of the car with a drop cloth. You don't want to spill any FG on the outside of the car. You never know where it might drip by accident so it is best to play it safe.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

Rbsarve said:


> Are you cutting up any metal between the trunk and the "cabin"?
> 
> Elsewise that sub will mostly just rattle your trunk lid...


There is a "pass through" on each side of the gas tank leading into the cabin, that are partially blocked by a metal sheet. I removed a good chunk of the metal, so the sound waves will have somewhere to vent to. I had a sub in my last Miata and until I did the same it was just a giant rattle box. 

I'll take a few pics of it before I put the seats back in.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

chuyler1 said:


> Make sure you cover the rest of your opening and outside of the car with a drop cloth. You don't want to spill any FG on the outside of the car. You never know where it might drip by accident so it is best to play it safe.


That was just the first stage to see if there was actually room for a FG box. I have a few plastic drop cloths that will cover the entire car. 

I learned my lesson patching a hole in my boat's hull and got resin jelly on the trailer. It's still there to this day.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

Resin is some *NASTY* stuff!!! Even with a respirator on I still felt like I was getting dizzy for a second. Maybe it was in my head but wow.

For a moment I was thinking about just paying someone to finish it off, but what fun is that?


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

It all looks great to me!


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

Fiberglass process:

I put down one layer of mat about 2 hrs ago. I put a coat of wax on the tape last night, then gave it a quick spray with Pam before I started today.

SCUBA BC weights make great holders to keep the plastic from blowing everywhere.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

02bluesuperroo said:


> Also, with a regulated power supply like that you will be making much less power if your charging system isn't up to snuff. What kind of charging system setup do you have?


*
JINXED!*

So everything was great yesterday, I go to program in an address into the headunit and it shuts off and starts power-cycling. Attempt to start the car and the starter relay just clicks like crazy. 

Looks like the new equipment and playing with it w/o the car on has drained my battery. I'll try to jump it tomorrow and get a load test done, but just in case is the Yellow Top worth the cost? I can make a group 75 battery fit with a few mods.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

looks great to me, id sujjest turning the motor on now and again to replenish juice b4 you spend on a new battery. 


nice work


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> 3/4" MDF baffle with factory Bose water shield.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess I'm not the only 10AE owner that frequents this site.

What did you use to seal up the baffle to to the door? I contemplated putting an 8 inch woofer in the door, but the OEM speakers aren't true 8 inch woofers. They're more like 7.5 inchers with tabs that mount to around an 8 inch diameter. Unfortunately, that whole area around the mount holes isn't flat. It looks like you used some sort of sealant, perhaps even clay? With the 3/4" baffle, does the door skin protrude at all? I've ordered up a set of Pioneer Premiers, but they're on backorder. I may have to revisit the 8 inch woofer and wideband combo.

With the sub, are you not using up the space that is taken up by that little cubby whole on the driver's side? It doesn't look like that "cubby" hole is usable once you put the enclosure in. I just picked up a Elemental Designs SQ10 woofer and am trying to decide where I want to put it. In the cabin, I'm thinking behind one of the headrests or right in center of the rear deck, facing forward. In the trunk, I was thinking of how you are doing your enclosure or in the spare tire well. The small depth of the SQ10 (3 inches, I think) opens up my options.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

floats said:


> I guess I'm not the only 10AE owner that frequents this site.
> 
> What did you use to seal up the baffle to to the door?


I used non-hardening modeling clay. Just roll it out like a snake and apply liberally to the back of the baffle It will take up the imperfections nicely. You will have to trim the lip off of the inside of the speaker grill to get the door panel to fit flush again. When you get it off you'll understand. Our door panels are slightly different than the NBFL's so most of the guides on miata.net don't help much. I have a web page photo log of the entires process if you need anymore examples. I've just pulled a few pics to post here.



floats said:


> With the sub, are you not using up the space that is taken up by that little cubby whole on the driver's side? It doesn't look like that "cubby" hole is usable once you put the enclosure in. I just picked up a Elemental Designs SQ10 woofer and am trying to decide where I want to put it. In the cabin, I'm thinking behind one of the headrests or right in center of the rear deck, facing forward. In the trunk, I was thinking of how you are doing your enclosure or in the spare tire well. The small depth of the SQ10 (3 inches, I think) opens up my options.


The cubby will be used, the only problem with bonding it in during the initial phase would be that there would not be anyway to get the mold out at all. If you decide to do this just cover up the cubby and make sure to make a lip that you can secure to the box after its done. (Think lots of marine grade sealant) This isn't the ideal way to do it, but with real estate a prime in the miata you have to do what you can. 

I'll get some more pics tomorrow of the FG process, I have the mold out of the car and trimmed down a bit, but have not progressed much further. I had taken last week off to get some work done, but since today was my first day back I only got to play for about 30mins tonight. I some how must of poked myself when i was making some marks tonight and watched my entire left side of my body swell up pretty nicely. Defiantly put a halt on the progress, I still haven't figured out if it was a reaction from the dried fiberglass or I got stung by something and didn't feel it.

I was threatened on Saturday with having to sleep in the car by my girlfriend. Evidently when you take a week off to work on a car you must also set aside time for the other woman... Just don't ever tell her "at least when the car gets mad it doesn't know how to use my debit card for shoes, or can it let someone else drive her." Fiberglass fumes will make you say some dumb things.


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## shinjohn (Feb 8, 2006)

Nice progress on your install, and great job!! I've always wanted a Miata. In fact, I was at a Mazda dealership back in '99 ready to sign the papers on one.... then my wife and I found out we were expecting our first. I'm still driving my Accord to this day. 

I've contemplated the audio question on a vehicle like this, and I like your approach overall. The one comment/question I have is why didn't you consider putting a sub or subs closer to your head, on the shelf behind you or the like? (the sub behind the roll bars in the picture above is interesting, but not that aesthetically pleasing IMO) It's an open top anyway, so probably the best bet for some bass would be that. OR forgo the sub completely since you have SLS 8s anyway.... Just curious....



smuruppi said:


> I was threatened on Saturday with having to sleep in the car by my girlfriend. Evidently when you take a week off to work on a car you must also set aside time for the other woman... Just don't ever tell her "at least when the car gets mad it doesn't know how to use my debit card for shoes, or can it let someone else drive her." Fiberglass fumes will make you say some dumb things.


LOL. You'll learn. Be thankful you did get all that time and the only reprimand for your comment was some shoes. 

And if/when you get married, you'll also get trained.... at least to a certain degree.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

shinjohn said:


> I've contemplated the audio question on a vehicle like this, and I like your approach overall. The one comment/question I have is why didn't you consider putting a sub or subs closer to your head, on the shelf behind you or the like? (the sub behind the roll bars in the picture above is interesting, but not that aesthetically pleasing IMO) It's an open top anyway, so probably the best bet for some bass would be that. OR forgo the sub completely since you have SLS 8s anyway.... Just curious....


I had another Miata before this one and tired different configurations. I had the footwell sub with an 8", I tried 2 8"s behind the headrests, and a single 10" in the trunk. The footwell sounded the best but really took up more space than I was willing to give up. The subs on the rear shelf cause a problem with my style bar and glass top, so the trunk is really the only option. I will loose a lot of the bass with the sub in the trunk, but it does give the awe factor when you tell someone you have put a sub in a Miata.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Nice work on the install. I'll be very interested to see the finished product. And great choice in cars. It's hard to beat a Miata for fun go-kart like handling. I have a few RX-7's that are my babies so any Mazda owner is cool to me. 

Zach


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

Finally got a chance to finish everything out.






































I need to detail my interior, but here it is.




















Trunk finished off:

I lined the interior of the FG enclosure with a layer of some left over VB-2 I had, and although the carpet is not a perfect match It's pretty close. Now we will see how long before the Infinity (it's the only thing besides the fuse block left over from my last Miata) gets replaced. I will need I to give the trunk a good layer of deadener in the future as I have a few rattles. Still need to get a grill to protect the sub from bouncing golf clubs (the bag still fits, just barely but it fits) and figure out if the PEQ in the pioneer unit will be enough to balance everything.



















Thanks for watching, and please leave any comments, both negative and positive.

-Brent


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## shinjohn (Feb 8, 2006)

I love it! Nice job, very subtle looking. Keeping space for the clubs is key!

I sooooo want a Miata now! 

One last question: with the exposed double DIN screen, do you do anything else about security? Do you have a security system or something?


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

shinjohn said:


> One last question: with the exposed double DIN screen, do you do anything else about security? Do you have a security system or something?


That's the joke with my friends, I think they have a pool set-up for when it all gets stolen.

I do have an alarm, a pretty hefty one at that. I won't be leaving the top down anymore when I park, and if I do I have a cockpit cover that keeps prying eyes away. The car is always garaged and it is my second vehicle so, when it does come out I'm usually not very far away from it. Plus, all the equipment has been registered with my insurance company, with a butt load of additional coverage to cover the "labor". The nice thing about that was my insurance company didn't know what Peerless SLS's were so according to them I have DYNAUDIO 3-ways in the car.

I have had a car totally stripped before and it's not a fun feeling at all, so I'll just take it as it goes. I did move to a different area of Dallas after that, and if someone picks my car over the Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradle next door, the Carrera GT across the street or the Aston Martin DB9 down the street, then someone has issues.



shinjohn said:


> I sooooo want a Miata now!


It's just one of those cars you have to buy and not think about it later. It is totally impractical as a daily driver, and forget taking it to Home Depot unless your just going in for a bolt! I'm not to crazy about the new bodystyle "NC" but if you ever come across a 10th Anniversary or a MazdaSpeed editions then I would jump on it and not look back!!! Although my '97 R-Package was too much fun to drive, acts like a totally different beast in the twisties.


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## 99IntegraGS (Jan 18, 2007)

smuruppi said:


> -Alpine AT19-(not installed)


Nice install. Really enjoyed following your progress.

BTW, what is an Alpine AT19?

JD


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Beautiful work! I love seeing anything tasteful done to a Mazda. What do you think of the sound overall with the top up and top down?

Zach


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

Nice work indeed. And I also crave a Miata right now (or atleast my toy car back from the ongoing suspension upgrade) 

I would have liked to see a top cover around the amp from the shelf down.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

A+ KISS work! I love it. Nothing crazy...just done correctly down to every detail.

Protect that amp too...you don't want your clubs scratching her up.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> I do have an alarm, a pretty hefty one at that. I won't be leaving the top down anymore when I park, and if I do I have a cockpit cover that keeps prying eyes away.


I think you'll find, as I did, that the tonneau actually just makes people more curious. I stopped using mine after less than two weeks.



> It's just one of those cars you have to buy and not think about it later. It is totally impractical as a daily driver, and forget taking it to Home Depot unless your just going in for a bolt!


Not if you're single or in a couple without kids. I've used mine as a daily driver since 2004. Its lack of space for people or cargo compared to a more boring vehicle I've actually found to be quite an accommodating vice. I've also had no trouble carrying home large shelving units from Ikea or many other large items. I don't mind occasionally having something stick above the car from the passenger seat...



> I'm not to crazy about the new bodystyle "NC" but if you ever come across a 10th Anniversary or a MazdaSpeed editions then I would jump on it and not look back!!!


I, too, am not crazy about the NC. It is not the exterior appearance that annoys me so much as the interior materials/design. The MSM has always struck me as a bit of a bastard. It has that hideous tupperware package, bigger wheels than needed, and gets significantly worse fuel economy than the standard model. Sure, it's faster, but buying a Miata for straight-line speeds strikes me as profoundly besides the point. Indeed, the only virtue I see in the MSM is that it had ABS standard, whereas it is a surprisingly rare feature on non-turbo NB Miatae. The 10AE is an appearance package that's a matter of taste, though the Bilsteins are a step up from the stock model's shocks. FWIW, my taste leans towards the next two special edition Miatae, the 2000SE and 2001SE, due to their wood Nardi steering wheels and shift knobs, and classically elegant color combinations (dark burgundy over light tan leather and top for the 2000SE, BRG over darker tan leather and top for the 2001SE).


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

I was never a fan of the MSM either. The wheels don't match the car at all and the next year the refresh brought a better design and the same power w/o a turbo. Just about any year Miata is going to give you the experience of a lifetime....go buy one for 2K and keep it as a weekend run-about.


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> Another forum member has the same exact setup in his Miata (minus the sub) and was the one that steered me in that direction. I had the system playing today (again w/o sub) and the Whispers had no problems keeping up with the SLS. It may be the amount of power the SLS are getting or I have just nailed my XO points, but I love the way it sounds. It is lacking just a bit in the 12K and up range, but with a convertible that does most of its duty with the top down I don't really think its going to make a difference. I do have a set of the Alpine AT19 tweeters minus the flush cups that could be added in a pinch.
> 
> Maybe someone can chime in on this, I was setting my gains by ear today and with the head unit at 7/8 volume and a Chesky disc in that I listen to a lot, I couldn't detect my mid channels clipping or distorting at all. Right now I have the gain set at max minus about 1/16th to 1/8th of a turn down. Is this right? Does JL make that nice of equipment that I can't clip my mids, or are my ears just jacked from 19 years of playing in a jazz band and standing in front of screeching trumpets?


How satisfied are you with the midbass/bass performance of the SLS 8s? Would you consider running them without the sub? I'm debating as to whether or not I want to run a sub. If I could go subless, the SLS 8/Aura Whisper combo seems much more appealing. If not, a standard 6.5 or 7 inch woofer and neo tweet combined with a sub would seem more ideal.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm going to try to answer all the questions so stand by...



Boostedrex said:


> What do you think of the sound overall with the top up and top down?


Top Up: It's crazy... I don't usually listen to alot of bass hard music, but I had some M.I.M.S. on my iPod and it actually hurts to breathe in the car with the volume at about 3/4's.

Top Down: It is exactly what I was looking for (almost). Everything is clear and there is plenty of bass at speed. Plus it can get very very loud! Only downside is I fell that I am loosing the very top register (piccalos, wind chimes, and 4" cymbals) but I have yet to stick an RTA on the system to fine tune everything. I have another pending problem I'll discuss later.

Overall: Even with using the stock locations, applying the Pioneer's "Dynamic Theater Stage" sound field the stage height is right between the dash and the rear-view, about 4" on the other side of the windshield and L/R appear to be at the side mirrors. Bass disappears and blends well. I very pleased, this easily has to be one of the best sounding car audio systems I have ever owned.



Rbsarve said:


> I would have liked to see a top cover around the amp from the shelf down.


I am working on something to cover that entire back wall, after getting the sub in that amp just looks unfinished. I have access to a CNC router, so I am trying to put something together like a false wall that is carpeted that opens up in the center to a cut and fogged plexi panel to cover the amp.

Suggestions?



floats said:


> How satisfied are you with the midbass/bass performance of the SLS 8s? Would you consider running them without the sub?


I ran the system subless for a week or so, it was okay but I could definatly tell there was low end missing, but then again I had the mids bandpassed at 70hz/305hz. I never tried them in the car with thier natural roll-off. They are a viloent speaker and move a ton of air. If I was going to run subless I would prob run more than [email protected] to them and deaden the door even more. The 305hz and lower part of the system is definatly not the weak point! You might try a compact tweeter and post the results, as the Whispers are the definate weak point, but this also might be due to the fact they are not getting much power ([email protected]) or I have not had them in long enough for them to mellow out.

Now here is the problem I am having with the system.

My parkinglights/fogs are flickering slightly with the engine at idle. The overall headlight output also seems reduced. I know the answer is going to be do a "big 3" but I have already doubled up the battery to chassis grounds, and with the battery in the trunk it's going to be a huge PITA to run massive cable to the alt. My three trains of thought are: 
1. Optima Yellow Top
2. Optima Red Top and 2F cap.
3. Stock battery and 3+ cap.
I have never used a cap before and always thought they were just something to throw money at for no reason, but with the tiny size of the Miata battery I just don't think I have enough juice. I don't have room to run an additional battery, or really want to add the additional weight. I need any and all suggestions before running out and dropping $200 on a battery. I did over-budget the system so I have some disposable cash left, the battery that is in the car is not the stock battery unless Mazda stuck a Bosch battery in there.

Here are the specs of the battery if it helps:
Bosch Premium
Group Size: U1RT
CCA - 370
CA - 460
RC Min. - 45

Engine off lights off: headunit is showing 11.7V
Engine off lights on: headunit is showing 11.1V
Engine on lights off: headunit is showing 14.7V
Engine on lights on: headunit is showing 14.1V


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> I ran the system subless for a week or so, it was okay but I could definatly tell there was low end missing, but then again I had the mids bandpassed at 70hz/305hz. I never tried them in the car with thier natural roll-off. They are a viloent speaker and move a ton of air. If I was going to run subless I would prob run more than [email protected] to them and deaden the door even more. The 305hz and lower part of the system is definatly not the weak point! You might try a compact tweeter and post the results, as the Whispers are the definate weak point, but this also might be due to the fact they are not getting much power ([email protected]) or I have not had them in long enough for them to mellow out.


I decided to order some Peerless Exclusive 8s instead of the SLS 8s. I figured I'd sacrifice a bit of low end in favor of midrange clarity. I ordered a pair of Aura Whispers _and_ Seas 27AFNCs. I'm gonna try the the Exclusives with the Seas tweets, first. If I find that the Exclusives can't play high enough and/or the Seas tweets can't play low enough, I'll try the Whispers. Heck, I'll probably try the Whispers, anyway. Hopefully getting the Exclusives wasn't a mistake. If I'm not satisfied, maybe I'll return the Exclusives and Whispers and pick up the new Seas ER18 reed cone woofers and run them in a more traditional two way setup.

I bought some MDF so I've pretty much committed myself to a sub. I don't feel comfortable enough to build my own fiberglass enclosure. I think I'll probably end up pulling out the spare tire and building a false floor enclosure. I didn't want to get rid of the spare, but I haven't had a flat tire on any of my car's in at least 5 years. Watch as I get one right after I pull that spare. At least I have AAA plus with 100 mile towing.

I need to get another amp to power the Elemental Designs SQ10 sub I picked up. I'm thinking an Alpine PDX 2.150 to match my 4.100. I'm considering using the PDX 2.150 to power the Exclusives, with two channels of the 4.100 powering the tweets/widebanders and the other two bridged to the SQ10. I'm thinking 127 watts X 2 (birthsheet for the 4.100) should be enough for the SQ10. The PDX 2.150 is cheaper than a PDX 1.600. In light of what you mentioned above, one of the other added benefits of the PDX series amps, besides their small size, is that they're supposed to be very efficient and draw quite a bit less current than other amps. Definitely a plus given the Miata's tiny battery/poor electrical system.


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## tr0y_audi0 (Feb 13, 2007)

Nice..
I like the PDX amps sofar. from the few Iv seen & heard..
Keep us posted..
Troy


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

floats said:


> I bought some MDF so I've pretty much committed myself to a sub. I don't feel comfortable enough to build my own fiberglass enclosure. I think I'll probably end up pulling out the spare tire and building a false floor enclosure. I didn't want to get rid of the spare, but I haven't had a flat tire on any of my car's in at least 5 years. Watch as I get one right after I pull that spare.


Go for the Fiberglass enclousure!!! What you saw in my pics was my very first attempt. Besides the fumes that suck it is fairly painless, and if you need help I'll walk you through exactly what I did. I can't tell you the comments I have received when people see the way my sub is done.

I pulled the spare in my '97 for a sub and just carried a can of fix-a-flat thinking I live in a giant city, and roadside service was just a call away. I had not a a flat in over 6 years and low and behold the one night I was out at the lake, the tread seperated from tire leaving the belt exposed and my cell was out of juice. Ended up walking 3 miles at 2am with my date bitching the entire time about wolves/snakes/scenes from "Deliverance". You never know when you'll need that puppy.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

floats said:


> If I'm not satisfied, maybe I'll return the Exclusives and Whispers and pick up the new Seas ER18 reed cone woofers and run them in a more traditional two way setup.


That's a very bad idea. In an open car, you need all the cone area you can get. So if you want to try Seas wait until they come out with an ER22.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

Wow, I just realized I can't spell worth a damn tonight. Sorry to those that are banging their keyboard in frustration. It's been a LONG week! (Is it only Wednesday?)


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

Floats you should listen to DS-21!!



DS-21 said:


> That's a very bad idea. In an open car, you need all the cone area you can get. So if you want to try Seas wait until they come out with an ER22.


I can't tell you the amount of PM's we exchanged before I started making purchases. He basically shot down every configuration I could think of, and with a great reason to back each one up. I'm glad I listened to him!!!

Have you thought about also bandpassing the whispers say from 300hz to 9.5k and then letting the seas take over from there? That is the only thing I would think of if you think you need the extra top end. You do want ALL THE BASS you can get as the second you drop the top you can kiss it goodbye!


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> I am working on something to cover that entire back wall, after getting the sub in that amp just looks unfinished. I have access to a CNC router, so I am trying to put something together like a false wall that is carpeted that opens up in the center to a cut and fogged plexi panel to cover the amp.
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> ...


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> 1. Optima Yellow Top
> 2. Optima Red Top and 2F cap.
> 3. Stock battery and 3+ cap.


I don't believe the Red Top will fit in the Miata's battery spot. 

And you don't have the stock battery, I don't think. Mazda used a Panasonic battery, I believe. If the replacement isn't a gel-cell, it could be dangerous to keep it there even without the system. Perhaps all you really need is a return to the stock unit.


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> Go for the Fiberglass enclousure!!! What you saw in my pics was my very first attempt. Besides the fumes that suck it is fairly painless, and if you need help I'll walk you through exactly what I did. I can't tell you the comments I have received when people see the way my sub is done.
> 
> I pulled the spare in my '97 for a sub and just carried a can of fix-a-flat thinking I live in a giant city, and roadside service was just a call away. I had not a a flat in over 6 years and low and behold the one night I was out at the lake, the tread seperated from tire leaving the belt exposed and my cell was out of juice. Ended up walking 3 miles at 2am with my date bitching the entire time about wolves/snakes/scenes from "Deliverance". You never know when you'll need that puppy.


Sell me your's and build another one. If I'm going anywhere far away from city life, it'd probably me in another car. For those excursions, I usually take my girlfriend's car.


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

DS-21 said:


> That's a very bad idea. In an open car, you need all the cone area you can get. So if you want to try Seas wait until they come out with an ER22.


I noticed that the ER18s aren't even listed on Madisound's site anymore. I don't think that bodes well for the future of the ER22s.



smuruppi said:


> Floats you should listen to DS-21!!
> 
> I can't tell you the amount of PM's we exchanged before I started making purchases. He basically shot down every configuration I could think of, and with a great reason to back each one up. I'm glad I listened to him!!!
> 
> Have you thought about also bandpassing the whispers say from 300hz to 9.5k and then letting the seas take over from there? That is the only thing I would think of if you think you need the extra top end. You do want ALL THE BASS you can get as the second you drop the top you can kiss it goodbye!


If I do that, that's another amp and probably an additional processor to handle the 3 way plus sub setup. I don't think my Pioneer 880PRS can handle that setup. Heh, I have been trying to simplify my setup, not make it more complex. As it stands, I'll be adding an _additional_ amp to my current configuration (removing the current five channel and replacing with two PDX amps.


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## AUr6 (Apr 10, 2007)

floats said:


> I noticed that the ER18s aren't even listed on Madisound's site anymore. I don't think that bodes well for the future of the ER22s.


They're there now.. the madisound site was screwing up earlier...


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## Arc (Aug 25, 2006)

floats said:


> If I do that, that's another amp and probably an additional processor to handle the 3 way plus sub setup. I don't think my Pioneer 880PRS can handle that setup. Heh, I have been trying to simplify my setup, not make it more complex. As it stands, I'll be adding an _additional_ amp to my current configuration (removing the current five channel and replacing with two PDX amps.


I think what he is saying is...If you HP from the 880 at say 1200hz. Send that signal to a PDX4.100 and then use the on board crossovers to bandpass the whispers and hp to the tweets. That way you have a 3 way front. 

**I have no experience with the PDX line so I don't know if it is possible, or the 880 so I don't know the Xover freqs. available. These are just arbitrary**

Then you get another 4.100 to power the Exclusisves and the SQ10. I don't know if the 4.100 is stable at 2ohms but look at the single 2 coil option if it is to get ~300watts for it.

Again this is all assuming that this is what he was talking about and the equipment is able to do so.


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

Arc said:


> I think what he is saying is...If you HP from the 880 at say 1200hz. Send that signal to a PDX4.100 and then use the on board crossovers to bandpass the whispers and hp to the tweets. That way you have a 3 way front.
> 
> **I have no experience with the PDX line so I don't know if it is possible, or the 880 so I don't know the Xover freqs. available. These are just arbitrary**
> 
> ...


If I was to go three way, I don't think I'd use the Peerless for strictly midbass. Really, the only reason I picked up the Exclusive was to leave my options open for a standard two way setup. If going three way, I think the SLS 8 or another subwoofer/dedicated midbass would be more suitable in that regard.

The other thing I wanted to point out besides a three way being being more complex than I want to deal with is that I want to keep the install rather stealthy. With the three way, I'd need to figure out where to put the tweet and in such a small vehicle where space is not only a premium, but I don't want my top to be slashed by some punk who sees I have a custom system.


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> Finally got a chance to finish everything out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you know how much air space you ended up with for your sub enclosure? Do you happen to have a parts/shopping list of the supplies needed for the build up? I'm about to place an order with US Composites and wanted to know how much resin, fiberglass cloth/mat and any other supplies I'd need. Following this guide and since they'll only ship one gallon of resin per box, a couple of yards of Knytex, some chopped mat and a few other miscellaneous items. If I ran a little short on supplies, I could always run by Home Depot and pick up some Bondo brand resin and other supplies, but the costs are comparable going with US Composites.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

floats said:


> Do you know how much air space you ended up with for your sub enclosure? Do you happen to have a parts/shopping list of the supplies needed for the build up? I'm about to place an order with US Composites and wanted to know how much resin, fiberglass cloth/mat and any other supplies I'd need. Following this guide and since they'll only ship one gallon of resin per box, a couple of yards of Knytex, some chopped mat and a few other miscellaneous items. If I ran a little short on supplies, I could always run by Home Depot and pick up some Bondo brand resin and other supplies, but the costs are comparable going with US Composites.


I used some packing peanuts to estimate the total voulme, and came up with a tad over .8cu feet. The Infinity wanted about .95 so that's where the polyfill came in. As for products, I only used 1 quart of resin, I'm not totally sure on the amount of cloth, but it was 3 packages of the Bondo brand woven cloth. Then of course the 3/4" MDF, 3 1/2" and 3 1" paint brushes, a stack of mixing sticks, 5 quart size mixing buckets, 1 cu yard of carpet, 1/3 can of Super 77 Spray Adhesive, 1/2 tube of marine grade sealant, with some liquid nails and hot glue thrown in.

Hope that helps.

-Brent


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> I used some packing peanuts to estimate the total voulme, and came up with a tad over .8cu feet. The Infinity wanted about .95 so that's where the polyfill came in. As for products, I only used 1 quart of resin, I'm not totally sure on the amount of cloth, but it was 3 packages of the Bondo brand woven cloth. Then of course the 3/4" MDF, 3 1/2" and 3 1" paint brushes, a stack of mixing sticks, 5 quart size mixing buckets, 1 cu yard of carpet, 1/3 can of Super 77 Spray Adhesive, 1/2 tube of marine grade sealant, with some liquid nails and hot glue thrown in.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> -Brent


Wow, 0.8 cubic feet. I was expecting 0.5 or less. Most of the subs I'm looking at, including the one I have only need 0.3 to 0.6 cubic feet. Hmm... maybe I'll sell my Elemental Designs SQ10 and pick up one of those TC Sounds TC 10 OEM monsters that are currently on special or the TC-1000. The TC 10 OEM has a rather deep mounting depth of 7.5" and weighs in at a portly 29.5 lbs. The TC-1000 is no slouch either at 5.7" and 19.2 lbs respectively. The questions is whether or not I'll have enough power to push them. I had a PDX 4.100 and just picked up a PDX 4.150. Maybe I'll return the PDX 4.100 and pick up a PDX 1.600. Alternatively, I could get a Dual 4 ohm and bridge the PDX 4.100 to each coil. 129 watts X 4 (birth sheet for the PDX 4.100) should be enough for the SPL levels I need.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

floats said:


> Wow, 0.8 cubic feet. I was expecting 0.5 or less. Most of the subs I'm looking at, including the one I have only need 0.3 to 0.6 cubic feet. Hmm... maybe I'll sell my Elemental Designs SQ10 and pick up one of those TC Sounds TC 10 OEM monsters that are currently on special or the TC-1000. The TC 10 OEM has a rather deep mounting depth of 7.5" and weighs in at a portly 29.5 lbs. The TC-1000 is no slouch either at 5.7" and 19.2 lbs respectively. The questions is whether or not I'll have enough power to push them. I had a PDX 4.100 and just picked up a PDX 4.150. Maybe I'll return the PDX 4.100 and pick up a PDX 1.600. Alternatively, I could get a Dual 4 ohm and bridge the PDX 4.100 to each coil. 129 watts X 4 (birth sheet for the PDX 4.100) should be enough for the SPL levels I need.


The depth is going to be the problem. I forgot exactly what it measure at but I do know a JL10W6 won't fit. The thing that throws you on the airspace is the added tool storage bin, with that you actually pick up an extra .2-.3cu ft. If the pictures didn't show it the base of the box is actually pushed out so the face is at a 15-20 degree angle.

One thing I did forget to mention was, after I did 4 layers and let it set up for a day, I removed the box sanded the inside lightly and added two more layers to the inside. I then placed the entire thing in a heavy polyethylene garbage bag and pulled a vacuum on it.

If you have a Harbor Freight near by this is a great vacuum pump for $10
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92475

You should use peel ply and a breather cloth between the glass and the bag if your smart, otherwise you'll be peeling away pieces of plastic forever and that stuff will gum up your sandpaper.

Give me a few and I'll run out and take a depth measurement and redo my volume calculation.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

I went and re-calculated, for volume i would go with between .68 and .83 cu ft as the packing peanuts won't totally fill up the airspace. 

For size, measuring from the inside of the MDF to the back, at the bottom of the cutout i have 7.5" the top is 4" due to the slope of the mold, so just make sure you pick a sub that tapers and not one with a magnet so big that it looks like a cyl. if that makes any sense.


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> The depth is going to be the problem. I forgot exactly what it measure at but I do know a JL10W6 won't fit. The thing that throws you on the airspace is the added tool storage bin, with that you actually pick up an extra .2-.3cu ft. If the pictures didn't show it the base of the box is actually pushed out so the face is at a 15-20 degree angle.
> 
> One thing I did forget to mention was, after I did 4 layers and let it set up for a day, I removed the box sanded the inside lightly and added two more layers to the inside. I then placed the entire thing in a heavy polyethylene garbage bag and pulled a vacuum on it.
> 
> ...





smuruppi said:


> I went and re-calculated, for volume i would go with between .68 and .83 cu ft as the packing peanuts won't totally fill up the airspace.
> 
> For size, measuring from the inside of the MDF to the back, at the bottom of the cutout i have 7.5" the top is 4" due to the slope of the mold, so just make sure you pick a sub that tapers and not one with a magnet so big that it looks like a cyl. if that makes any sense.


Was it the JL 10W6 or the 10W6V2 that didn't fit? The V2 is significantly bigger. If it won't fit a 10W6, I doubt the TC 1000 would fit. BTW, I might make my work more difficult by removing the tool bin and glassing in the empty space. That should give me a little more space.


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

floats said:


> Was it the JL 10W6 or the 10W6V2 that didn't fit? The V2 is significantly bigger. If it won't fit a 10W6, I doubt the TC 1000 would fit.


It was the 10W6V2. 



> BTW, I might make my work more difficult by removing the tool bin and glassing in the empty space. That should give me a little more space.


I'll save you the time, don't try it! I did on my rev.1 box but there was no way to pop the enclosure out. You could try and make it in two pieces out of glass, but unless you know someway to get fiberglass to bend when it is totally cured then doing it in one piece is going to be impossible. At least I would think so.


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> It was the 10W6V2.
> 
> 
> I'll save you the time, don't try it! I did on my rev.1 box but there was no way to pop the enclosure out. You could try and make it in two pieces out of glass, but unless you know someway to get fiberglass to bend when it is totally cured then doing it in one piece is going to be impossible. At least I would think so.


I just placed an order for a TC 1000. I figured I could always build out the baffle to gain additional depth if needed.

So I guess my next question is... can you remove the enclosure without breaking it? It would seem how you've done it, you can't pull the enclosure out without destroying it.


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> It was the 10W6V2.
> 
> I'll save you the time, don't try it! I did on my rev.1 box but there was no way to pop the enclosure out. You could try and make it in two pieces out of glass, but unless you know someway to get fiberglass to bend when it is totally cured then doing it in one piece is going to be impossible. At least I would think so.



I'm just brainstorming here. I could make it two separate pieces, a top and a bottom. I could add a rim/lip to each and assemble them in the car, screwing them together or something, with a layer of gasketing material in between? Does that sound feasible?


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

floats said:


> I'm just brainstorming here. I could make it two separate pieces, a top and a bottom. I could add a rim/lip to each and assemble them in the car, screwing them together or something, with a layer of gasketing material in between? Does that sound feasible?


You could, as that is basically what I did. The only difference here is your reinventing the wheel persay. If your just going to make something that looks exactly like the tool bin then why go to the trouble?


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## ATB (Aug 30, 2005)

floats - are you worried about putting that much extra weight over the left rear wheel? 29lbs for the sub + box adds up. Thats the only reason I would consider ditching my spare for a sub in the tire well. Although in my case there is an amp living there right now.


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

ATB said:


> floats - are you worried about putting that much extra weight over the left rear wheel? 29lbs for the sub + box adds up. Thats the only reason I would consider ditching my spare for a sub in the tire well. Although in my case there is an amp living there right now.


I went with the TC 1000, which weighs closer to 20 lbs. The TC 10 OEM is the 30 lb monster. Still, that's quite a bit of weight. I could mount the two amps over the battery to even out the weight distribution.


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> You could, as that is basically what I did. The only difference here is your reinventing the wheel persay. If your just going to make something that looks exactly like the tool bin then why go to the trouble?


There's a couple of reasons. One, there's wasted space around the tool bin, so I could allot myself some more air space. The TC 1000 calls for 0.4 cubes in a small enclosure and 1.0 cubic feet for a large enclosure. I'm guessing basket and depth issues might be somewhat alleviated if I didn't use the tool bin. I plan on deadening that whole area, anyway, so the bin may not even fit after I do that. The larger enclosure will allow lower extension. I'm guessing it won't need as much power with more air space, as well, but that's just a guess.

The tool bin seems pretty flimsy, so I think I'd want to reinforce it to make a sturdier enclosure. I'd also like to be able to go back to stock if need be. In its current state, can you easily remove the whole enclosure without destroying it?


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## smuruppi (Mar 4, 2007)

floats said:


> I'd also like to be able to go back to stock if need be. In its current state, can you easily remove the whole enclosure without destroying it?


To remove it i would just need to cut the sealant out between the fiberglass and the tool bin. If there was any damage to the tool bin, then I would call planetmiata.com or flying miata and have them ship me a new one from a dismantled car for a whopping $8.


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## floats (Nov 23, 2005)

smuruppi said:


> To remove it i would just need to cut the sealant out between the fiberglass and the tool bin. If there was any damage to the tool bin, then I would call planetmiata.com or flying miata and have them ship me a new one from a dismantled car for a whopping $8.


Ah, I didn't know that's what you used the sealant for. I thought you just fiberglassed right over the bin. I've got all sorts of ideas, but they don't really mean anything until I actually jump in and try it. I do appreciate all your help.


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