# Alpine PXA-H800 versus Helix DSP Pro



## hyun (Aug 13, 2006)

hi all, i have this dilemma:

i'll be tuning myself, no auto functions. contemplating these two processors, comparing the differences.

1) helix is 10 channel, small advantage. i am using 8 now but i can consider expanding 2 more in future. but this is not critical so it's not a real advantage over alpine.

2) helix has only 2 presets, alpine has 6. i need ideally 3 - one for driver-based tuning, one for passenger-based, one for neutral for all passengers (it's a 7 seater MPV). therefore i am very reluctant to compromise with helix having only 2 channels - i will have to remove the 3rd preset for all passengers.

3) helix DSP and sound quality SEEMS better according to people. i haven't done any A/B comparison myself, and this is the critical question i am asking everyone.

4) the graphical laptop tuning interface seems better in alpine (is this true?), but i suspect helix will improve on its software. 

5) helix has some FINER tuning steps e.g. 0.25db EQ steps versus 0.5db in alpine but these fine differences i can ignore. a missing 3rd preset is too debilitating.

i'm not sure if there are other points but based on this, i'll probably go for alpine H800 due to presence of a 3rd (and even a 4th-6th preset to play with).

the only criterion i think that may swing my decision is, does Helix have a better DSP sound effect that is audible to ears? or u can hardly tell ?

or any other criterion i'm missing.

oh yes, small thing but i also sometimes play ipod / creative kind of mp3 players so i think i'll use line-in from player direct to processor.

thanks !!!


----------



## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Alpine if you do not have rear speakers utilized
Helix if you do. Your 7 passengers will never notice the difference if you remove single seat tuning if you have rear speakers.


----------



## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

I would go alpine as well, if you dont need those extra chans.
The Helix control is also 100% AWFUL. The alpines is prob the best of any processor. 
I have heard the helix can have turn on pop, but I haven't heard the same of the alpine.
In regards to sound quality... I don't think you should put much weight into what people are saying.


----------



## hyun (Aug 13, 2006)

sirbOOm said:


> Alpine if you do not have rear speakers utilized
> Helix if you do. Your 7 passengers will never notice the difference if you remove single seat tuning if you have rear speakers.


there is yes a slight difference only between single seat tuning and balanced tuning for rear passengers, because of distance from rear seats to front. that's why i am able to accept helix 2 presets only (sacrificing a 3rd preset for balanced rear seat tuning) if helix sound quality is significantly better.

yes i do use rear speaker for single seat tuning, therefore having more presets as you just described to REMOVE or modify the rear speaker tuning to accomodate rear passengers is a plus.

thanks for this input !

apart from this rear speaker consideration, any other things i'm missing, any significant sound quality difference in the two processors?

the lack of 0.25db kind of fine tuning i am suspecting may not be very audible though i agree this fine tuning of helix on paper wins alpine.


----------



## hyun (Aug 13, 2006)

DLO13 said:


> I would go alpine as well, if you dont need those extra chans.
> The Helix control is also 100% AWFUL. The alpines is prob the best of any processor.
> I have heard the helix can have turn on pop, but I haven't heard the same of the alpine.
> In regards to sound quality... I don't think you should put much weight into what people are saying.


thanks for the reply !

ok i have used Helix laptop tuning software and although there is room for improvement, i can LIVE with it. alpine's one i have seen the manual and it SEEMS a bit easier to use, so software-wise i'm not overly concerned ... it won't be a swing in the decision.

turn on pop, i haven't heard any pop in my install (i have the helix right now installed on trial basis) so i'm happy with the popless nature currently.

for sound quality, all i have objectively to go by are the numbers published by manufacturer, about DSP processor speed, bit sampling rate etc. and these two companies publish somewhat different figures, so i can't really compare one for one. something like one is 24bit, one 96, one 48k sampling, etc etc. if anyone knows these technical numbers - 
numerically (not that it matters, but just for sake of discussion) which is numerically superior ? and do you believe that translates to better sound assuming ALL tuning is identical ?

thanks !


----------



## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

My Helix is great!. No turn on pops at all.

I dont think the software is completely perfect but it is pretty good in my opinion.


----------



## troutspinner (Nov 8, 2013)

I am getting the upgrade itch over my current PPI DEQ and have been looking at these two as well. I believe the Alpine limits you on PEQ adjustments to around 10 whereas the Helix gives you 31 bands per speaker. Those 31 bands are all variable so you could effectively make 31 adjustments between say 100 to 650.

Please correct me if I am wrong Alpine users. In this case, I'd like to be wrong.


----------



## hyun (Aug 13, 2006)

got this rumour from the web: is it true?

There is a Remote Control for the Helix units, but it's a bit meh and you can only switch between 2 tuning presets. Helix is currently working on a new Controller that looks a lot like the Audison Bit One's DRC with a single knob and LCD Display, but IIRC, the faceplate will be a Single Din size. It will have up to 20 Presets and should be available in April or May, but pricing is unknown AFAIK. The current Helix Remote is the $60 #URC-2A...

if so that solves my preset problem, if a helix controller can give so many presets


----------



## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

hyun said:


> got this rumour from the web: is it true?
> 
> There is a Remote Control for the Helix units, but it's a bit meh and you can only switch between 2 tuning presets. Helix is currently working on a new Controller that looks a lot like the Audison Bit One's DRC with a single knob and LCD Display, but IIRC, the faceplate will be a Single Din size. It will have up to 20 Presets and should be available in April or May, but pricing is unknown AFAIK. The current Helix Remote is the $60 #URC-2A...
> 
> if so that solves my preset problem, if a helix controller can give so many presets


Rumor is true but until I see them for sale then it stays in the rumor bin for me with the Arc audio ps8 controller


----------



## illgorilla (Feb 28, 2015)

According to Julian Fischer, of Audiotec-Fischer, on March 11, 2015:

"The director (the new remote) will be available in roughly six weeks officially."

That puts the new controller's release date around April 22... Couldn't come sooner as the existing controller is not impressive.


----------



## hyun (Aug 13, 2006)

wow great news, if that is so, my answer is obviously going to be Helix since that solves the 2-preset problem !

hopefully it doesn't require changing to a newer-model processor ....

where did this news come about? in some website / magazine ? thanks !


----------



## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing the helix DSP pro over the Alpine H800.
The Helix is not as user friendly as the Alpine. But the Alpine has been a lot more reliable for me personally.
Both processors have their strong points. 
I switched over to Alpine from Helix. But for what it is worth, we have two of the BMW`s here at the shop with Helix Pro`s installed in them. Both of which the tuning went smooth and the install was straight forward.
Alpine H800. User friendly, controller and highly recommended.
Helix DSP Pro. Advanced knowledge of tuning, no controller and also highly recommended


----------



## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

This will be a good one!


----------



## illgorilla (Feb 28, 2015)

I emailed Brax through their website and Julian replied.

According to his email reply this morning:

"Regarding your questions we will probably start to post the first official information of the Director including pictures from next week. The devices will be available soon, an exact date will be published soon."

He advised to follow them on Facebook to get the release information fastest.

Pictures of the Director Controller on on another thread here. It looks great.


----------



## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

My vote is for the alpine and that's because of the controller. If the helix had that nice of a controller(which it sounds like a good one is in the works) then I would go with helix.


----------



## 2DEEP2 (Jul 9, 2007)

If you are not a serious tuner, I would go with the Alpine.

*Alpine has * 
4v PreOuts 
2v to 7v inputs 
31 EQ bands F/R/C 
10 EQ bands Sub 
10 PEQ bands F/R/C at 1/3 oct step 
5 PEQ bands Sub at 1/3 oct step 
0.05 ms time alignment steps 
0-36 dB crossover slopes, 6dB step 
several auto tuning aids 


* Helix Pro has*
6v PreOuts
250mv to 20v inputs
30 bands per ch
30 PEQ bands per ch at 1/24 oct steps
0.0102 ms time alignment steps
0-42 dB crossover slopes,
Built in RTA


----------



## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Many of my own sentiments are reflected here already, but I'll give a couple more...

Presets: you say you only need 3, but how do you arrive at those when that's all you have? I use 5 presets, 1 for SQ judging, 1 for daily driving, 1 for getting loud and crazy, 1 for RTA judging, 1 for SPL judging... That leaves me 1 preset which I can use to copy and refine at will to work on any of the other 5... So, my vote goes to the Alpine, which I happen to be using as well.

Don't fret much over only having 0.5 db increments EQ with the Alpine, I doubt there's a soul here who would ever suggest that "you need to pull 50Hz down about 1/4 db" 

Besides, the RUX commander gives you access to EVERYTHING... Even if it is a bit clumsier than the PC app, which is also excellent.

Other than that, the only other thing I'd consider is the DACs being used, of which I know the Alpine is using FOUR K-grade (24 bit) Wolfson 8740 DACs. I don't know what the helix is running, but if it has a better array of converters, that would definitely be another point to consider.

Overall... Most of the winning SQ cars I know of are running either Alpine or Mosconi, not to say the Helix can't do the same... The only Helix processed system I've come across was auto-tuned, and, well, it was auto-tuned...


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

id go with the helix just for the (i think its) 11.5 degree phase shifting capabilities


----------



## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

2DEEP2 said:


> If you are not a serious tuner, I would go with the Alpine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good general info, but I would disagree with the statement of "if you are not a serious tuner" to go with the Alpine.

To put things into perspective, the MECA Master class champion last year won with a P99, whereas others in his class had more "tuning power" at their disposal. Sometimes, less is more.


----------



## 2DEEP2 (Jul 9, 2007)

papasin said:


> Good general info, but I would disagree with the statement of "if you are not a serious tuner" to go with the Alpine.
> 
> To put things into perspective, the MECA Master class champion last year won with a P99, whereas others in his class had more "tuning power" at their disposal. Sometimes, less is more.



Most SQ champions I know did not use a lot of EQ to win World/Nations.
Crossover points, slopes and levels.

The car is built to have a flat response before a DSP even shows up.

A serious tweaker is going to want the Helix Pro for phase shift and time steps alone.


----------



## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

For me personally, until the Helix Pro has a controller that I can adjust everything it has to offer without having to power up a laptop, it's not going to replace my H800 in my main SQ vehicle. I have two other SQ builds, one with a 360.3 which is also more powerful than the H800 as well as a Mosconi 6to8 in another. While I may have more "tuning power" in those other DSPs than the H800, I always feel handcuffed by not being able to "tweak" those DSPs without having to power up a laptop when I hear something that I want to adjust. A serious tweaker is going to want to be able to adjust things on the fly, as mentioned, a controller that has a 1to1 capability in being able to adjust from both a laptop or a controller is a big win. Other than the Alpine, I'm not aware of one that exists available to the masses as of today.


----------



## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

AMEN, Papasin!


----------



## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

XSIV SPL said:


> Many of my own sentiments are reflected here already, but I'll give a couple more...
> 
> Presets: you say you only need 3, but how do you arrive at those when that's all you have? I use 5 presets, 1 for SQ judging, 1 for daily driving, 1 for getting loud and crazy, 1 for RTA judging, 1 for SPL judging... That leaves me 1 preset which I can use to copy and refine at will to work on any of the other 5... So, my vote goes to the Alpine, which I happen to be using as well.
> 
> ...


Alpine is using Wolfson codec(DAC, ADC in 1 package).
Codec or DAC used are just 1 of the aspect on a DSP, the controller DSP, opamps and other components are equally important.


----------



## 2DEEP2 (Jul 9, 2007)

Just to clarify what I mean by "Serious" Tweaker/Tuner:
One who can tune a vehicle to sound the same from both driver and passenger seats.
One tune works for anything you throw at the system.
Who can set up a vehicle so that highway and driveway tuning only differs in the amount you tuning up the volume. No need to tune on the fly.
They know that a humans hearing performance changes with prolong exposure. High volumes can reduce one's ability to hear temporally, so tuning on the fly is not always a good idea.

A Tweaker is just someone who tweaks all the time. 
They have a set up for left seat, one for right seat, one for driveway, one for highway, one for this song, one for the same song on a different media, etc.

The Alpine would be a better set up for a Tweaker.


----------



## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Do you know how many world championship cars run H-800's? 701's even for god sakes. Some of the highest scoring ones have the P99/P01. (Basshead) and (Hajji grape) come to mind...It doesn't even have separate left/right EQ. I think people need to get out of this fantasy land that they need all this processing. 

At the end of the day it's a band aid, a useful one, but 95% of the people wanting to trade to the boner of the month processor, would be far better off worrying about speaker placement and install. Not the absolute best amps and processing.

Greg Menard is right, about them being in the BMW's but these cars are Scott Buwaldas, or associated with him. Not many people are in the caliber of what him and his associates are capable of building at the Hybrid Auto Salon.

An H-800 is great piece, a modded one is absolutely awesome. Hell theirs no shame in picking up a H-701 for a few hundred bucks... Ask guys like BigRed, Matt Roberts, ECT.. They'll tell you the same thing about a H-701 it cant be beat for what they sell for now.


----------



## garysummers (Oct 25, 2010)

Not a plug for alpine just my experience. I have been running two Alpine PXA-H990 processors since mid 2010. They have had many hours of use in all kinds of conditions without fault. I recently added a PXA-H800 to the system. As far as ease of tuning, I can have both the H990 and the H800 software, as well as my Goldline RTA software running on my PC. This makes tunin very easy. I can also use the F1 head unit or the RUX to make spot changes on the fly.

Sonically the system is dead quiet.


----------



## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

FYI--2DEEP2 = Anthony Davis. IASCA and USACi World Champion competitor and judge. also worked in the auto industry, I believe for Ford, doing noise isolation.

So he may know a thing or 2 about cars and car audio....


----------



## BlackHHR (May 12, 2013)

Yep ^^ What up Ant ? 
Had 2 dig 2 deep 2 find this thread.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...n/51390-anyone-done-jbl-gti-ib-heard-one.html


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

And never leaver of a good tune alone.



Mic10is said:


> FYI--2DEEP2 = Anthony Davis. IASCA and USACi World Champion competitor and judge. also worked in the auto industry, I believe for Ford, doing noise isolation.
> 
> So he may know a thing or 2 about cars and car audio....


----------



## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

BlackHHR said:


> Yep ^^ What up Ant ?
> Had to dig deep for this thread.
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...n/51390-anyone-done-jbl-gti-ib-heard-one.html


I have a 12 GTI I've used IB.


----------



## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

OP,
It is very clear that you will have plenty of tuning capability with both. You have lots of opinions from well seasoned champions and an average joe like myself. 

It's very clear that both units give you lots of options and flexibility, and it will just come down to features that you may or may not need or use.


----------



## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Helix DSP Pro is my favorite processor on the market right now.

64 bit processing.
10 output channels.
.01ms steps on time alignment.
Phase angle adjustment in 11.5 degree steps
Excellent GUI on the software.
Software updates every 3-4 weeks. Version 3.11 out now.
Expansion modules available for 2 optical inputs, or bluetooth.
Volume controller available now. Director controller coming soon.


----------



## 2DEEP2 (Jul 9, 2007)

BlackHHR said:


> Yep ^^ What up Ant ?
> Had 2 dig 2 deep 2 find this thread.
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...n/51390-anyone-done-jbl-gti-ib-heard-one.html


What Up... I remember the pic in the link. That's was from the last time I won the Canadian Nationals.

I'm a tweaker... but I own a Helix Pro


----------



## rasahman (Jan 28, 2007)

OP,
I'm curious if you've decided between the two now that the helix director is out.



2.8“ / 7 cm touchscreen display and powerful ARM processor
Easy handling of the main functions
- Volume control of all sources
- Volume control of the subwoofer
- Source selection
- Control of the HEC BT module (Bluetooth® Connect functions: pairing, reconnect, disconnect / Bluetooth® Control functions: track forward/back, play/pause)
- Switching between sound setups

Memory locations for 20 additional sound setups
Automatic dimming function of the display
Display rotation adjustable to 180°
USB Paththrough - to connect your computer to the DSP
Compatible with all DSP products which are supported by DSP PC-Tool Version 3
Exclusive solid aluminum housing
17’ / 5.2m connection cable included


----------

