# Its just a simple amp swap! ;) 2009 M3 Build Log



## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

hey guys,

for the most part, we prefer to work on full projects from start to finish, rarely do we do only part of an install that was completed by another shop.

but this was one of those rare exceptions...the main reason being that the shop that performed the previous installation was Sound Innovations, good friends of ours and an EXTREMELY good and professional outfit that turns out work that i have been gazing at for a very long time 

The car had an original installation with Audison Thesis amps, they had some issues with thermal protection running in pure A class mode, and a third party shop installed a very big fan system that was very loud. The customer frequently drives his car for over 4-5 hours so this was very important. He also wanted to gain a bit of headroom and run a bit more power to it. we also decided to do a processor change at the same time.

Sound Innovations was undergoing a move to a new location at the time so we took the project on 

Having said that, i am sure many of you can imagine that doing an amp swap to a fully customized install is anything but simple, the new amps are much larger than before and had to be arranged in a totally different configuration...meaning we had to match the original design and shape of the trunk the best we can...

Though it is only a partial system, it was perhaps one of the more challenging builds from a design standpoint...so here is the result 

first, a shot of the previous build, nearly flawless execution as SI is known for, with three floating thesis amps upfront and two fully molded and trimmed enclosures housing Focal 8" utopia subs.










the car previously ran an audison bitone, and the controller, along with the display and control unit of a passport 9500CI radar system, was molded into the ashtray assembly:










so first issue that joey got to tackle was somehow integrating the MUCH larger Mosconi DSP controller into the same space, and relocate the radar accessories. here is the finished result.

the mosconi controller was completely molded into the ashtray assembly, and the two radar units were relocated to the factory dash panel above:




















this was alot of work, first, joey completely took apart the mosconi controller so that only the board and front fascia (after trimming) was left:










the old ashtray mold was cut apart, and the new fascia was molded in:










the board and knob was then secured back in place, and the covering film was removed from the fascia and reattached, so its a continuous assembly in the ashtray:



















so thats it for the interior. moving to the trunk...so in place for the 3 Audison amps, we had to somehow fit these beasts:










that is two Mosconi A-class and two Mosconi Zero 3s...the two A class will power the installed utopia no.7 midrange and tweeter, while the two zero 3s will power the midbass and the two focal subs. quite a lot of gear...and we had to do them in a way that helps with cooling.

so here is what joey came up with, with the trunk open a carpeted top cover is on a vinyled fake floor. it curves downward so the full extent of the subbox can still be scene. the frontal wall of the subbox was extended and the vinyl/alcantara trim theme extended:




























pop off the grille and here is what you see, the four mosconi amps are lined up bow to stern with a divider in the middle. not the cosmetic grille at the front of the assembly and the two grilles at the rear corners:














































those grilles are not just there for looks but forms a push/pull fan cooling system that joey came up wtih. with in each of the two back corner grille are two ultra quiet fans, they draw air from the front center grille, flows them past the heatsinks of the amps, and pushes them back out at the rear. This circulations helps as A class amps, as you know, are known to run hot.

we are pleased to say that the customer went on a 6 hour drive and the amps did not thermal 



















now lets take a look at some build pics, whcih will be a bit sparse as we werent sure if we were gonna get enough pics to do a build log haha

first, joey built the bottom foundation board, it allows everything else to attach but also hold two key pieces, the mosconi 6ot8v8 on the left, and apreviously installed ipod to optical interface on the right.

here it is test fitted in the car and then with the two trays attached and painted black:



















this is the rack that houses the 6to8, with the SP-DIF multi board attached:










due to the complete change in design, we had to come up wtih a way to mount the mobridge unit and the power/ground distribution, these ended up on individual racks that mounted to the front side of the sub enclousres:



















here is the front two amps in place showing the ipod adapter and the mosconi dsp:



















here is the aforementioned attachment panels for the mobridge and the power/ground distribution:


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Joey then turned his attention to the top floor cover, which is a combo MDF/fiberglass piece that flows down to the bottom edges of the sub enclosures it is actually many pieces in one and requires a lot of detailed fabrication to ensure proper fitment. Joey spent quite a bit of time in this 

i will just let the pictures do the talking:




































































































these are the individual press fit grille pieces, wrapped in vinyl and paintd mesh attached:



















and here ist he top cover panel, before and after upholstery:














































since the previous design had the amps taking up the space upfront and our design had them in the floor, we had to extend the subenclosure all the way to the backseat, so joey fabricated these pieces, and used of the same material from a panel we removed, and reattached the upholstery back on for a continuous look, the difference in color you see is mostly due to the dust on the subenclsoures:














































at the same, we noticed the roof panel had a lil bit of vinyl pealing due to a very drastic shaped curve, so joey took it, smooth it out and rewrapped it:




























a final touch showcasing joeys attention to detail is this, and kinda mind boggling to me as i would never consider doing it. the fans we got had logo stickers on the center, joey did not want those to be visible through the grille mesh, so using a socket as a template, he routered out four abs disks that cover the logos on the fans ...

here is all that jazz:




























and a final shot of the amps without the floor cover, we were able to reuse most of the speaker wires from the original install:










so thats it..i never really got to hear how it sounded before but it is very nice now. stage is nice and high half way up the windshield with good depth, tonally it has a lot of detail and superb midbass impact. i never really worked with these focal 8s but boy they really impressed me, they are effortless in producing the "big" bass lines that were present on various songs and i really would not have believed that they were 8s...a nod here goes to the awesome work Sound Innovations did on the enclosures. 

anyway, pretty unique project...hope yall enjoy it 

cheers,

Bing


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Your installs make me happy in the pants...


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Again as usual you gentlemen do the industry proud.


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## caraudioworld (Sep 18, 2013)

you did an interesting swap, the amps seems more tight than before but hopefully the bigger size of the mosconi is used in more heat dissipation, you also achieve a very functional configuration, now seems totally secure to use the trunk for anything. 

thanks again SIS, incredible work and very generous on your part sharing all your work with us!


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## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

Nice!

Tell Joey to peel the stickers off the fans next time. :laugh:


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

My favorite part is the capping of the fan label,oh yea the rest is awesome too.Happy New Year to yall on the West Coast


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## Kevin K (Feb 11, 2013)

That install is so tasteful


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## SactownXSi (Oct 24, 2007)

Beautiful work.


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## bstall (Oct 28, 2008)

Love what you did. I am sure the customer also appreciates the added trunk space. 1st class work as usual.


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## JVD240 (Sep 7, 2009)

Absolutely gorgeous, fellas!

The previous work was also outstanding.


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## colled96 (Feb 2, 2010)

Once again guys, your combined effort as a TEAM shows outstanding quality and workmanship. If I only had the TIME myself to pull this type of quality work off. You guys are my HERO's !!!!!!!!!


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## BlkRamRt (Nov 27, 2013)

you guys are amazing. how long does it take to do a install like this?


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## robolop (Mar 10, 2008)

You guys are making beautiful things.

Each more beautiful than the other.....


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

BlkRamRt said:


> you guys are amazing. how long does it take to do a install like this?


a lot of times things like this are hard to estimate since we didnt work on it continuously, this was almost all joey, with a lil bit of jesses help. i just did the tuning. 

but looking back, i would say easily 60-70hrs went into it if not more...a lot of the detail work, though doesnt seem huge when done, really is time consuming


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

robolop said:


> You guys are making beautiful things.
> 
> Each more beautiful than the other.....


thanks!

and if my dream of going to watch a f1 race at SPA ever come true, it would be another dream to meet you and check out your workshop and the bimmer


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## roduk (Sep 19, 2008)

That's just lovely. So nice to see


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## BlkRamRt (Nov 27, 2013)

simplicityinsound said:


> a lot of times things like this are hard to estimate since we didnt work on it continuously, this was almost all joey, with a lil bit of jesses help. i just did the tuning.
> 
> but looking back, i would say easily 60-70hrs went into it if not more...a lot of the detail work, though doesnt seem huge when done, really is time consuming


cool thanks.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

what do you have controlling the fans? is it temp set or always on?


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## Kevin K (Feb 11, 2013)

Can you show the underside of the mesh grills? Would love to do something like that myself.
Thanks.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Horsemanwill said:


> what do you have controlling the fans? is it temp set or always on?


Its always on

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


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## BassnTruck (May 27, 2010)

All that work when all the M-cars have ticking time bomb rod bearings right now. Guess that is another discussion.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

beautiful work, i still keep leaning towards mosconi for my next build


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Horsemanwill said:


> what do you have controlling the fans? is it temp set or always on?


One thing that was a BIG issue with this build, and the whole impetus for the swap, was dealing with heat.

There is a huge electronics surplus warehouse just down the street from our shop. I took a 12v battery and some strippers and spent about an hour going through every fan they had that was the size I needed to find which one was the most quiet. The plan was for them to be quiet enough to leave on all the time. Each side is wired in series to slow the fans a little. The result is a good amount of air movement with almost no noise. When we were showing it to the client, Bing mentioned the fans, the client didn't even realize they were on and he was standing right next to them. That is how quiet it ended up being.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Kevin K said:


> Can you show the underside of the mesh grills? Would love to do something like that myself.
> Thanks.


There is a pic of the underside up /\ there. It is right above the pic with the 3 sitting on a table.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> One thing that was a BIG issue with this build, and the whole impetus for the swap, was dealing with heat.
> 
> There is a huge electronics surplus warehouse just down the street from our shop. I took a 12v battery and some strippers and spent about an hour going through every fan they had that was the size I needed to find which one was the most quiet. The plan was for them to be quiet enough to leave on all the time. Each side is wired in series to slow the fans a little. The result is a good amount of air movement with almost no noise. When we were showing it to the client, Bing mentioned the fans, the client didn't even realize they were on and he was standing right next to them. That is how quiet it ended up being.


which fan did you end up going with? i've found the brushless fans to be awfully quiet. and try to use them. my next personal car i plan on integrating a pc temp control unit to set fans to come on at certain temps.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Horsemanwill said:


> which fan did you end up going with? i've found the brushless fans to be awfully quiet. and try to use them. my next personal car i plan on integrating a pc temp control unit to set fans to come on at certain temps.


Hmm... It was one of these... (see pic) Hahha... I didn't pay attention other than it moved air well and was quiet..


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

*drool* i'd be in heaven in a store like that

sooo many toys


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## Kevin K (Feb 11, 2013)

Sorry I guess I overlooked it. Just curious how the mesh was attached



[email protected] said:


> There is a pic of the underside up /\ there. It is right above the pic with the 3 sitting on a table.


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## Garticus (Jan 5, 2014)

WoW

If I still had my 3-series I would've made the loooong drive to your shop for you guys to work your magic in my e90. 

So nice......your wiring looks aircraft grade quality like what I do in Boeings & Gulfstreams.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

How are the fans doing any good? They sit to the side of the amps. Do you have something to direct the airflow over/around the heat sink? Do those amps really need fans, I thought they already had built in fans? I'm sure I'm missing something, so edubacate me !


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## Garticus (Jan 5, 2014)

I think one pair pulls air in and the other pair pulls air out......like a cross flow ventilation scheme. 

I did a scheme like that in one of my previous vehicles......and I never had any thermal issues (even during the 8 months of "summer" in Fla & Louisiana.)

I only used one fan for intake and one for exhaust and it worked pretty good.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Niebur3 said:


> How are the fans doing any good? They sit to the side of the amps. Do you have something to direct the airflow over/around the heat sink? Do those amps really need fans, I thought they already had built in fans? I'm sure I'm missing something, so edubacate me !


The grill in the front is the air inlet, the fans at the back are the exhaust that pull the air from the front of the piece to the rear. Bing made me add the grills above the amps as an after thought, so it isn't 100% like that anymore. Regardless, it is working great.


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## Garticus (Jan 5, 2014)

Ahh so both pairs are exhaust fans, one pair for each side. 

Nice.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

Niebur3 said:


> How are the fans doing any good? They sit to the side of the amps. Do you have something to direct the airflow over/around the heat sink? Do those amps really need fans, I thought they already had built in fans? I'm sure I'm missing something, so edubacate me !


Read the words next to the pics..despite my gawdawful spelling and gramar  

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

^^ Did you guys ever test the effectiveness of the fans, like testing the temp of the amps/heatsink after a period of time with/without the fans on? It looks really interesting and I'm curious what the temp difference would be. Have you guys ever done liquid cooling before?


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Niebur3 said:


> ^^ Did you guys ever test the effectiveness of the fans, like testing the temp of the amps/heatsink after a period of time with/without the fans on? It looks really interesting and I'm curious what the temp difference would be. Have you guys ever done liquid cooling before?


Honestly, Jerry, we probably could have installed the amps in there with no fans. We have buried the Mosconi amps numerous times with no issues. This customer was very concerned about the amps overheating, so I worked some cooling into the project. 

As far as liquid cooling, the amps we use don't ever have any issue with overheating as long as we take mild precautions. The "simplicity" part of our name would probably negate any thoughts of every liquid cooling an amplifier.
The majority of people I have know and/or talked to about liquid cooling have done it more for the aspect of gaining additional point in competition, or because it was "cool" (pun intended!) 
There are way too many things that could go wrong, I would never liquid cool an amplifier. 
As you know, many of our installations are shipped to far away places, so we always take those things into account when we build a car. We try and over engineer and make sure things will be as trouble free as possible.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Oh, and the grafting in of the DSP controller wasn't done with the face of the controller being cut, I made a new one out of acrylic and molded that into the plastic pocket...

And, those radar pieces weren't molded into that OEM plastic piece. I hand filed/ground the openings so they fit perfectly in the dash. That was VERY nerve wracking. One mistake and I would have a problem, because that piece is finished in a rubberized coating that I can't duplicate. I took my time and they ended up looking and fitting well.


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## Yawar538 (Aug 28, 2013)

loved the effort and especially the part of air circulation and its whole concept. bravo! (Y)


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## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

simplicityinsound said:


> a lot of times things like this are hard to estimate since we didnt work on it continuously, this was almost all joey, with a lil bit of jesses help. i just did the tuning.
> 
> but looking back, i would say easily 60-70hrs went into it if not more...a lot of the detail work, though doesnt seem huge when done, really is time consuming


It is so strange to me that the smaller the part that is required to be detailed or customized, the more time consuming it would be to have it done! 

A small custom cut for a USB female socket can be such a [email protected]# some times 


As for cooling systems, a good friend of mine had a very clever design for the Thesis amps (class A configured) which really do get extremely hot!

What they did is the following: 

1. Installed the amps on a aluminum plate floor which acts as an additional heat sink and as well spreads the heat more evenly across the floor surface.

2. Used two Stinger crossflow fans (the large ones) such as this:

Amazon.com: Stinger SGJ78 8.25-Inch Cross-Flow Fan: Car Electronics


At each side of the floor one was placed taking air inside from the left side of the boot from the left side skirt (will soon be explained) and the right one pushing the air out side of the right side skirt. 

3. usually cars have air ventilation opening somewhere between the side skirts to the bumper - using two burshless fans (four all together) directly on the ventilation openings 

So what is done is by using six fans you suck cold air outside of the vehicle from the left side skirt and you push it out from the right side skirt through the entire floors while the amps are seated on aluminum floor acting as a giant heat sink. 

It is basically a simple design and very very effective, does not require any liquids nor further holes taken on the car body - it utilizes the existing car ventilation. 


And those thesis amps do get seriously hot.


AMAZING work SIS!


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

That's an interesting idea. Typically those vents have 1 way rubber flaps on them, what did he do for the side that was supposed to draw air in? (the rubber flaps are to keep out water/moisture)

Also, what did he do to combat the noise of the fans? This car had just 1 of those fans in it and it was really obnoxious..





eddieg said:


> It is so strange to me that the smaller the part that is required to be detailed or customized, the more time consuming it would be to have it done!
> 
> A small custom cut for a USB female socket can be such a [email protected]# some times
> 
> ...


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## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

I used such a fan to cool down the carpc I had and it was not that noisy, intact I only heard it when the PC was on and the car was At nutral and no ambient noise around I sometimes Noticed it, most of the times I did not.

Yes they are blocked at one side but not from above. As air flows evenly in a given space, as long As you direct the fan direction correctly and they have enough clearance from above it will do the trick.

My carpc was running SIX years, day by day, 90 min avg drive a day, with ZERO maintenance until it finally gave. And I am located in a desert climate location most of the year.
The carpc was trapped along with two amps which you can see in my signing below closed both ways with just two small venting gaps, so, not that noisy and highly efficient from my POV but it isn't that important as long as you get air moving from outside to inside cold and inside to outside hot.

I've seen some crazy people taking a garden hose and epoxy clay to extend the rear AC horn to the amps, not that hard to do but not exactly sane...


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## Eiswritsat (Nov 19, 2008)

Very clean job you guys did. Top notch that's for sure. Any benefits from going from the BitOne to the 6to8?


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

one thing you guys gotta remember is that on the late model bimmers, the car wakes up and everythingpowers up whenever you open a door, unlocks etc. the previous fan system was indeed a crossflow iirc, and it was louder enough that whenever you open the trunk, you hear it winding up and it is definitely a distraction 

as far as benefits from the bitone to the 6ot8v8... i personally prefer the tuning options ont he mosconi a bit better, and i sometimes feel that the noise floor is lower...but it is also a much newer processor having come out several years after hte bitone. haha i dont want to extol my personal opinions on this matter


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Personal opinions aside, I had a bit one before and I have the 6to8 now, in terms of noise, the 6to8 is quieter...


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

Wow, 

Great install guys!


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## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

As for the fans and the way the bimmer operates - I see, maybe there is a place to consider a timer based relay to the remote line powering up the stereo so that it would not start each time someone opens a door or something? 

As for the bit one which is already the second one I am using (also have the bit TEN) I can tell you the following 

The cons (and some really strange issues I've had with it):

1. You can not set on a band pass filter a different slope between the low end to the high end (the bit ten allows it) 

2. you can not initiate the device from its digital inputs.

3. The DRC unless it is the last SIP version - gets the pixels burnt after a while and you end up with a usless DRC which is much required in some installs. 

4. I've encountered an issue at which I copy a preset (D to A for example) and they do not sound the same although they appear to be identical!!!

this is a major for me and it made me loose my entire confidence in the product but it could just be that it is time to reset it as it had been years while I totally molested the gizmo 

5. Some times, when I turn the car off and on again or toggle the remote by accident - the bit one remains on until I ignite the engine again and turn it off - rare but happens now and then.

6. No wireless connectivity 

Other than that it is a great product. 

The bit ten by the way has much better drivers and reacts much faster to the PC software.


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## TheDavel (Sep 8, 2006)

Bing (and Joey too), I've sat on the sidelines the past few years withholding comment on many builds (yours and others), but always watching what you guys are doing. Being a very capable "DIY'er" myself, I haven't felt much need to comment on/question the obvious things (like how amazing your stuff has been coming out), which most people do over and over again with regards to your builds. 

What I am seeing with you and Joey in the shop is a huge growth in the design department. It seems like the two of you have blended your styles and the results have been nothing short of amazing. 

This build in particular keeps playing on loop in my mind, so does the one you did with Micah... what really gets me hot and bothered here is how much the lines in the trunk and the amp layout remind me of exotic sports car engine bays (mid/rear engine cars). It is pure audio install porn. This may not be the flashiest install, but I simply love it. 

Thank you for your detailed builds and keep pushing the design envelope for us spectators!


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

TheDavel said:


> Bing (and Joey too), I've sat on the sidelines the past few years withholding comment on many builds (yours and others), but always watching what you guys are doing. Being a very capable "DIY'er" myself, I haven't felt much need to comment on/question the obvious things (like how amazing your stuff has been coming out), which most people do over and over again with regards to your builds.
> 
> What I am seeing with you and Joey in the shop is a huge growth in the design department. It seems like the two of you have blended your styles and the results have been nothing short of amazing.
> 
> ...


thanks! when i set out to expand SIS, i had exactly what you mentioned in mind  to find a craftsman that has skills far beyond my own....and i still marvel at how lucky i was able to end up with someone like Joey...

again, thank you for your kind words and it only motivates us to keep pushing


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## quietfly (Mar 23, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I took a 12v battery and some strippers and spent about an hour going through...



Nice!!!!

AWESOME work as always Joey


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## MUGWUMP (Jan 29, 2012)

Heh. Can't just peel the sticker off? 

You could consider getting one of those little craft CAD cutter/plotters to cut custom shapes out of adhesive backed vinyl. I picket up a Cricut expression off of craigslist for $75 on some impulse buy. I've cut a few things out of adhesive backed vinyl and it works great. I have a copy of a program that you can use to import/create custom files so you can make whatever you want. 

I've read it can cutout chipboard up to 1/16" thick. I have some pieces ready to test once I get my other computer back up running. I may be able to make elaborate router templates by stacking a couple of them and then using them to make a template out of 1/4 mdf.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i have to check but i think when he start pealing them it got really gunky or something 

dont show him more tool ideas!! hahaha


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## PerformanceAudioLVNV (Apr 1, 2010)

simplicityinsound said:


> a lot of times things like this are hard to estimate since we didnt work on it continuously, this was almost all joey, with a lil bit of jesses help. i just did the tuning.
> 
> but looking back, i would say easily 60-70hrs went into it if not more...a lot of the detail work, though doesnt seem huge when done, really is time consuming




You mean Joey didn't have this knocked out by lunch time?


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Yeah, the stickers were making a mess when I tried to remove them.

I have a Circut too, and the Sure Cuts A Lot software. By the time I would have gotten all that stuff out and setup I would have been well done with making those piece out of plastic. 

I haven't tried chipboard on mine, but I do have the heavy duty cutter for it. I used mine a school a lot for making stuff to decorate my bulletin boards.




MUGWUMP said:


> Heh. Can't just peel the sticker off?
> 
> You could consider getting one of those little craft CAD cutter/plotters to cut custom shapes out of adhesive backed vinyl. I picket up a Cricut expression off of craigslist for $75 on some impulse buy. I've cut a few things out of adhesive backed vinyl and it works great. I have a copy of a program that you can use to import/create custom files so you can make whatever you want.
> 
> I've read it can cutout chipboard up to 1/16" thick. I have some pieces ready to test once I get my other computer back up running. I may be able to make elaborate router templates by stacking a couple of them and then using them to make a template out of 1/4 mdf.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

No, I was too busy complaining my back was hurting... Oh, wait. that was YOU!!!






PerformanceAudioLVNV said:


> You mean Joey didn't have this knocked out by lunch time?


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks! 

I was a little concerned when I started this design, because it was a departure from the norm. I knew what WOULDN'T look good, but I didn't know for sure that this would work. I ended up being fairly happy with it. There are a few things I would have done differently maybe, but overall it turned out well.. The most important part was that the system was now able to play for long periods of time with out shutting off due to heat issues. The rest was just lipstick and mascara! :laugh:





TheDavel said:


> Bing (and Joey too), I've sat on the sidelines the past few years withholding comment on many builds (yours and others), but always watching what you guys are doing. Being a very capable "DIY'er" myself, I haven't felt much need to comment on/question the obvious things (like how amazing your stuff has been coming out), which most people do over and over again with regards to your builds.
> 
> What I am seeing with you and Joey in the shop is a huge growth in the design department. It seems like the two of you have blended your styles and the results have been nothing short of amazing.
> 
> ...


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## PerformanceAudioLVNV (Apr 1, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> No, I was too busy complaining my back was hurting... Oh, wait. that was YOU!!!


Hahahahaha!


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## safe d (Dec 4, 2010)

Yeah right; a simple amp swap. I nearly by passed genius. Humble genius at that.

Nice work. Will look out for more.


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## ccapil (Jun 1, 2013)

Another excellent job, love the attention to detail as you've probably heard many times. Just a random question, lol, what camera do you use Bing to take all the still pics?


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

There are a couple of cameras floating around the shop that we use. I think most of these were taken with a cheapy Canon P&S.




ccapil said:


> Another excellent job, love the attention to detail as you've probably heard many times. Just a random question, lol, what camera do you use Bing to take all the still pics?


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

since there's been a lot of fan talk I feel it's okay to say:

sleeve bearing fans have that sticker covering the spindle, and removing it would dry out the sleeve's viscous coating.

sleeve bearing fans are quieter than ball bearing, but if you're going to mount horizontal, you need ball bearing.

this is just what I've read on the internet.

computer power supplies die when the fan stops cooling, and the big horizontal ones in the consumer grade supplies die off quicker, supposedly they dry out where the ball bearing ones don't, and if they are mounted vertical, they last longer.

now, this might not matter if you get 2 years out of horizontal sleeve fans, and change them out. But depending on the amount of heat, and the installation you could exceed temperatures inside a computer chassis in the summers, and have a quicker demise.

not saying it's all fact, but just something I read, 


on the internet.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

can i has an internship plz?


i am so jealous you guys get to do stuff like this all the time.


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

That's a lot of fan info, thanks!

The way it was originally designed and the way it ended up (with the grill opening on the top cover), the fans may or may not play a big roll in cooling. All of the amps have their own fans, so there will definitely be air moving.

I guess, then, any amp that has a fan is a bearing fan? I have never seen an amplifier company specify the orientation of amp mounting to affect the fan life?






cajunner said:


> since there's been a lot of fan talk I feel it's okay to say:
> 
> sleeve bearing fans have that sticker covering the spindle, and removing it would dry out the sleeve's viscous coating.
> 
> ...


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## bigwilly43729 (Feb 11, 2009)

Love your work. One of the main reasons I come to this site.

Likely a rhetorical question, but have you ever actually had a customer not be happy with the final product? Your installs are amazing and I couldn't understand someone being unhappy, but there's always one out there.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> That's a lot of fan info, thanks!
> 
> The way it was originally designed and the way it ended up (with the grill opening on the top cover), the fans may or may not play a big roll in cooling. All of the amps have their own fans, so there will definitely be air moving.
> 
> I guess, then, any amp that has a fan is a bearing fan? I have never seen an amplifier company specify the orientation of amp mounting to affect the fan life?


I don't know whether amp manufacturers think of their cooling fans in the same way as computer power supply guys do.

a sleeve bearing fan can dry out, some have special surface coating with impregnated lubricating stuff, but you pay more for those..

some computer power supplies have gone through the trouble to orient the fans in a vertical, probably for longevity purposes, you see this in server power supplies.

an actual ball bearing fan is usually noisier for the same CFM, so that matters but it might be like, 34 db, vs. 25 db. Still pretty quiet but if you're putting them at 4 it might start getting loud?

it could explain why some amps have fan failures, and others don't but I would guess the best fan technologies aren't being put in car amps.


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## ccapil (Jun 1, 2013)

Quick question Bing,
When doing your false floors, the top panel with the cut outs for the amps and sub(s), how do you do them? How do you get the cutouts in the perfect place to fit around the amps etc? Cardboard model template? TIA


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

bigwilly43729 said:


> Love your work. One of the main reasons I come to this site.
> 
> Likely a rhetorical question, but have you ever actually had a customer not be happy with the final product? Your installs are amazing and I couldn't understand someone being unhappy, but there's always one out there.


over the course of having the buisness here in cali since 2006...i can say that i try my absolute best for that never to happen. i think i am pretty successful at that and truth be told, we are probably way more anal about things than the customer, a few times we have been like, hmmm not sure this looks the best with this design elements...but the customer ends up loving it 

I am by no means perfect, but we try our best on every build


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

ccapil said:


> Quick question Bing,
> When doing your false floors, the top panel with the cut outs for the amps and sub(s), how do you do them? How do you get the cutouts in the perfect place to fit around the amps etc? Cardboard model template? TIA


joey did this one...i am sure he used a router.

for me, it depends on if the precision require, if its a small cutout and you are going to wrap in carpet, i can plunge a jigsaw into it, and cut precisely along a cutout line ,and then sand, maybe a lil bit of filler, and reduce to account for thickness of carpet.

if you desire a lot of precision i would make the cutout using a router, then take my rough cut piece, backfill into the cutout, then use that to create a perfect match to the opening, and then reduce to account for thickness of carpet.

i know there is a way to make an inner and outter with router and no backfill, but i still need to learn it


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## justgotone (Jun 12, 2014)

I love looking at the progression, excellent work! I'm no pro but I can appreciate quality stuff!


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## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2010)

justgotone said:


> I love looking at the progression, excellent work! I'm no pro but I can appreciate quality stuff!


Thanks!!!!


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## justgotone (Jun 12, 2014)

You're welcome &#55357;&#56397;


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