# any tips on soldering 1/0 power wire????



## mobeious (Jan 26, 2007)

do any of u guys got any tips on soldering 1/0 to ring terminals i dont think my iron is getting hot enough to tin the 1/0


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

You need a torch. 

Why do you need to solder it, can you crimp it? Use a hammer if need be.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Same thing will happen to your electrical system , unless you get bigger heat to do a bigger job,[ it ain't happening].


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## mobeious (Jan 26, 2007)

well iv seen all these people pooling solder on the end of the ring terminal wich bonds the wire to the terminal from all the solder soakin in the wire while ur pooling it... i might just smack it with a hammer i was just wanting a cleaner look


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

mobeious said:


> well iv seen all these people pooling solder on the end of the ring terminal wich bonds the wire to the terminal from all the solder soakin in the wire while ur pooling it... i might just smack it with a hammer i was just wanting a cleaner look


Soldering it is great, but like I said, you'll need a torch to do it.

Assuming you don't have one, a hammer will crimp it. It's not the prettiest method, but effective.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

ive done it, inset both ends into copper tube, hammer, torch, solder, tape.


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## Sassmastersq (Jan 12, 2007)

best method I've seen:

Secure the wire into the terminal, vice grip tighly to crimp it enough to keep the wire onto the terminal, or hammer it just enough to keep things together.

put the wire in a vise, with about 6", including the terminal hanging DOWN.

Heat the end of the terminal (fork or ring part) ONLY, do not under any circumstances put heat directly onto the barrel part, ever, ever, and I know you're thinking of something now, and NO, not then either. gently heat the terminal, heat it up enough to melt solder on the outside of the barrel, the wire won't be hot enough yet to solder, but give it about 10 seconds, and heat the end again, repeat until the solder melts when you put it onto the strands... only apply solder to the strands, that way it will melt into the wire, and bond to the barrel part, keep going until the whole connector is filled, a little at a time... should take a quite a while if you're doing it properly. 

if you rush, you will compromise the jacket of the wire and end up with problems later on.


best option: a proper crimping tool, faster, easier, and a better connection.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Buy an inexpensive crimping tool, crimp it on a vice with the tool, heat shrink it with a heavy walled adhesive lined heat shrink and you're set. 

Easiest, fast, and cheapest way of doing it, and more importantly it's the proper way.


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

89grand said:


> a hammer will crimp it


**** NEGATIVE ****

Soldering is probably better than this.

Proper crimp is best.


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## Timmah318 (Nov 14, 2007)

I've always used a bench vice, then heat shrink. More accurate than a hammer, less hassle and neater than soldering


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

capnxtreme said:


> **** NEGATIVE ****
> 
> Soldering is probably better than this.
> 
> Proper crimp is best.


I didn't say a hammer was better, I said if he doesn't have a torch, that's his best choice (assuming he didn't have a proper crimping too either, and surely he doesn't), but it DOES work. Wires don't care about solder as long as they are connected. Usually when people ask a question like this, they need an immediate solution, so I offered one, but if the OP said "I have a few weeks to get the proper tools, what should I get" I wouldn't have said a hammer.

Soldering is nothing more than a means to electrically connect something, and provides a mechanical bond as well when there is no other way, like a circuit board, but twisting two wires together are just as electrically connected as two wires soldered together.


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## PaulD (Nov 16, 2006)

be careful not to beat the barrel to tight onto the wire. The best way to tin the leads is a tinning pot.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

PaulD said:


> be careful not to beat the barrel to tight onto the wire. The best way to tin the leads is a tinning pot.


Why waste a perfectly good pot on that, can't you just use solder which already comes with tin?


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Why waste a perfectly good pot on that, can't you just use solder which already comes with tin?


Yeah, that's the way most people tin wires. The OP must have a lower powered iron and can't get the 0 gauge hot enough to tin so I told him to use a hammer to crimp it.

If the OP had the proper crimping tool, a solder pot, a vice and everything else under the sun, like some people seem to assume (not you) I bet he wouldn't have even posted this question.


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

the problem with soldering large wire is the amount of heat needed to solder the wire properly. The amount of heat needed is so great that it will melt most of your plastic wire sheathing within atleast 12" of the are being soldered. You can use a proper 1/0ga crimp to tow a vehicle with.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

bobditts said:


> the problem with soldering large wire is the amount of heat needed to solder the wire properly. The amount of heat needed is so great that it will melt most of your plastic wire sheathing within atleast 12" of the are being soldered. You can use a proper 1/0ga crimp to tow a vehicle with.


I agree, that's why I said this, in my first post:



89grand said:


> You need a torch.
> 
> *Why do you need to solder it, can you crimp it? Use a hammer if need be.*


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

89grand said:


> Yeah, that's the way most people tin wires. The OP must have a lower powered iron and can't get the 0 gauge hot enough to tin so I told him to use a hammer to crimp it.
> 
> If the OP had the proper crimping tool, a solder pot, a vice and everything else under the sun, like some people seem to assume (not you) I bet he wouldn't have even posted this question.


I knew about the tinning pot thing I was just messing with him pretending to have read tin instead of tinning and then saying that why cut up a pot to get the tin when the solder already comes with it.


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

89grand said:


> I agree, that's why I said this, in my first post: "you can use a hammer if need be"


And I said you can't because THAT'S NOT A CRIMP.

I didn't put any words in your mouth, don't put them in mine. That is simply not a crimp, period.

If OP doesn't have the tools then he needs to get the tools, period.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

capnxtreme said:


> And I said you can't because THAT'S NOT A CRIMP.
> 
> I didn't put any words in your mouth, don't put them in mine. That is simply not a crimp, period.
> 
> If OP doesn't have the tools then he needs to get the tools, period.



A hammer works, I've done it.

Electrically speaking, what's the difference?


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

I bet you could pull it off with your hands.

You couldn't pull a crimp off with a tractor.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

If you're using a crimpped connection/ring terminal, DO NOT SOLDER the connection. See below for specifics.

I personally like the StreetWires "Inter-Lok" Ring Terminals. You don't need a Crimp Tool or a Soldering Iron or Torch. Expensive but they are genius! Love these things!

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=263-638

If you want to use Crimped connections, you must have the proper tools. Here is one I have used with much success:

LENCO # 840 Hammer-On Welding Cable Lug Crimper

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hammer-On-Weldi...hash=item200233786307&_trksid=p3911.m14.l1318

And here is some Reference material I've found on Crimp connections:

About the Crimp?? The heart of any good solderless terminal system lies in the crimp system used. This may sound simple, but to maintain electrical integrity, tensile strength and insulation properties, a sound crimping technique and system must be used. The first thing to consider is that a good crimp relies on the wire, the terminal, and the tool. If any of these items are out of the terminal manufacturer's specs, an unacceptable crimp may result. Crimp joints are tested by pulling. For example, A 10-gauge crimped connection should support a 150lb. pull. 

The crimped interface between the wire and the terminal is considered a high-pressure, permanent connection. Again, each component of the crimp (wire, terminal and tool) contributes to the integrity and the performance of the connection. An integrated crimp 'system' helps a given terminal meet the stringent conditions of agency approval and requirements of UL, CSA and military specifications. Crimping technology is designed to produce numerous cold welds between the wire and wire barrel that renders a nearly invisible electrical connection. A cold weld site occurs when sufficient pressure is applied to two small, but distinct, metallic surfaces already in intimate contact. Without sufficient cold weld sites a condition known as "static heating" prevails. Static heating is a self-perpetuating phenomenon that occurs as follows: 

Crimping takes advantage of work hardening the copper wire barrel to hold the wire in place. Mild heating of the crimp begins to stress-relieve the crimped area. When stresses are relieved, cold weld sites break. Broken cold weld sites increase the resistance between the wire and wire barrel. This, in turn, increases the temperature in the crimp area; further stress relieving the crimp. This scenario continues until the crimp area becomes overheated and may result in melted or burned insulation.

Why Crimp? Crimping can be used in the vast majority of terminal to wire applications. While other methods are considered strong mechanical connections with high-performance electrical properties, crimping provides strength under constant load in tension and severe vibration. Crimp connections tend not to crack or creep under sustained loads. Fatigue is not an issue. Since the mechanical performance of a crimp is robust and sound, the electrical properties are less likely to degrade. In short, static heating is avoided when good crimping practice is followed.

8. Soldering versus Crimped Connection Myths? "Soldering or Solder-Dipping Will Improve The Connection" 

Crimps are designed to work without solder or solder-dipped wire. When solder is present in a crimp, the deformation properties change. When the deformation properties change, metal-flow, cleaning, welding and residual force also change and compromise the mechanical and electrical properties of the crimp. With diminished mechanical properties, the connection may not survive normal uses. Furthermore, as electrical performance diminishes, the perils of static heating arise. Additionally, in some cases, copper wire may become embrittled or solder wicking may affect the flexure strength of the stranded wire. By soldering a crimped connection, the process heat may compromise the crimp. 

Insulated terminals play an important role in many electrical devices. Their reliability, performance and low cost result from the design relationship between the wire, terminal and tool. This connection integrity makes them suitable for many applications. By getting back to the basics, designers will likely find a suitable insulated terminal that meets their reliability, performance and cost requirements.

References: THE MECHANICS OF PRESSURE CONNECTIONS J.H. Whitley (Research Division, AMP Incorporated) Dec 3, 1964 SOLDERING & CRIMPING, Various Authors, AMP Incorporated 1950. FUNDAMENTALS OF CONNECTOR DESIGN, AMP Incorporated


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

capnxtreme said:


> I bet you could pull it off with your hands.
> 
> You couldn't pull a crimp off with a tractor.


It's a wire attached to a ring terminal. It certainly does not need the strength to pull a tractor.

If I pulled hard enough, I probably could pull the hammer "crimp" off, but I don't regularly pull on my wiring with all my might for the hell of it.

Edit: Actually I can't. I have my old wiring laying right here and I CANNOT pull the ring terminal off...better go get my tractor.


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## dogstar (Jan 31, 2007)

You CAN use a hammer to crimp 1/0, but why when hammer crimpers are cheap.
Wait till tomorrow, go to harbor freight and pick one up for $15 and do the job right.

Crimping with a hammer or pliers or a vice is a good way to learn by trial and error, cause I bet most people are gonna make a bunch of errors as they learn the "best" way to ghetto crimp something.

Speaking of the ghetto and using the wrong tool for the job, why not pistol crimp it, or gat crimp it with a 9mm hollowpoint...


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

I should take a picture of my hammer crimp, because it doesn't look bad at all, and as I found out earlier, it's quite strong too.

Now I'm not saying it's better than using the right tool, but if you don't have one and you need to crimp a wire...well, that's what I had to do and it worked great.


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## Sassmastersq (Jan 12, 2007)

welcome to DIY ghetto audio


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## mobeious (Jan 26, 2007)

did i mention i have a hammer crimp? lol just wanted to try the soldering


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

NO Not another crimp vs. solder thread.
[sarcasm]Doesnt anybody know how to use the search function?[/sarcasm]









this is what a proper crimp connection looks like inside
buy or borrow a proper crimper and crimp the connection


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

That LENCO crimper is great and Welding Supply sells them for less (last time I looked).


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## mobeious (Jan 26, 2007)

i cant even see that pic lol


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

mobeious said:


> i cant even see that pic lol


edited You should be able to see it now


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## mobeious (Jan 26, 2007)

thnx btw harbor frieght doesnt have these type of crimpers


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

mobeious said:


> thnx btw harbor frieght doesnt have these type of crimpers


You really want that exact model. I've used others that looked very similar but did a terrible job.


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## jp88 (Jun 25, 2007)

You could probably find one of those type of crimpers at a local welding supply store.


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## mobeious (Jan 26, 2007)

actualy i came up with a better option... i was talkin with the g/f's dad about what i was doin and he was like i have a electric hydraulic press that you could do that with... so auto crimp here we come


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

mobeious,

Ummm...No, you did not mention that you already have the crimp tool! Why would you want to waste time trying to solder a crimped connection?!

If you Already HAVE the Proper Crimp Tool, WHY DON'T YOU USE IT???!!! 

This will give you the absolute best connection! Crimp Tools such as the Lenco 840 are specifically designed to apply pressure EQUALLY on at least 3 sides to obtain a proper crimp!

A Hydraulic Press (without a specifically designed Crimp Die) will just FLATTEN & CRUSH the Wire in the terminal lug, which will also leave gaps (see 'static heating' in my previous post), and the wire strands will be prone to breaking where the wire exits the terminal lug!

Unless you have a specific Crimp Die for the Hydraulic Press, do not use this method!

Sheesh! Just use the right tools and be done with it! Did you see the photo posted above of a proper crimp connection? It does NOT get any better than that!

I'm done. C'ya!


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

^^^^
Exactly, here I am getting into disagreements with people over the hammer issue because I thought he didn't have anything. If I had known he had the right tools, I would have never mentioned using a hammer. I was trying to get him by.

Oh well, my hammer crimp worked pretty well while I had it in the car.


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## mobeious (Jan 26, 2007)

i dont have the lenco unit i just have a basic hammer crimp


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## cody6766 (Jul 24, 2007)

I've been using the hammer crimp method for years. I don't just hammer it out flat and hope for the best. I bend one side down, using a screw driver and hammer, then hammer the other side down to hold it all tight. 

I'm sure you could tow a truck with a proper crimp, but I don't make habit of towing with my power wire.


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

cody6766 said:


> but I don't make habit of towing with my power wire.


That's not the point, you tards. The electrical connection over time is. Do you honestly think your connection is air-tight?


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## mobeious (Jan 26, 2007)

well this is what i got with a 5000lb hydraulic press and a crimp jig



















give me yours comments


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

mobeious said:


> well this is what i got with a 5000lb hydraulic press and a crimp jig
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Better wait for capnxtreme to comment. He's the authority on crimps.

Apparently crimps need to be "air tight" now too, and that doesn't appear to be.

I will say this though, my "hammer crimp" actually looks more solid than that, but don't tell you know who.


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## mobeious (Jan 26, 2007)

how the hell are u suppost to make it air tight


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

mobeious said:


> how the hell are u suppost to make it air tight



Who knows...well I take that back, capnxtreme said so, so I assume he does.

I know I don't.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

If you use the terminals with one piece tubes and crush the hell out of them, they turn into pretty much one solid mass of metal.


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## mobeious (Jan 26, 2007)

well i dont have one piece terminals lol


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