# Buzzman's 03 Mercedes S500 system overhaul



## handcrafted

This system was built by a shop in California before the owner of the vehicle moved out here to Arizona. The goal of the build was all SQ and, while some of the fabrication was okay looking, alot of it simply did not match with the quality of the sound. Also, it was pretty difficult to get to all of the amplifiers or the bit one if you needed to. 
So, the new goals for the new build were to dress up the trunk a little bit more so that it's style would be complimentary to the vehicle and to the sound systems. The door pods needed to be redone to accept a new size speaker. The tweeter pods in the a pillar needed to be completely rebuilt to allow for a much larger overall tweeter whose angle could be adjusted after the fact. The dash panel needed to be reworked because it was simply textured and painted black and everything was held together with hot glue! Needless to say, it was not something that could be removed many times before the MDF structure was ruined. Well, enough babble, here's the breakdown.









This is what it looked like before hand. It had a carpeted piece that covered it all up when he didn't want it to be shown. The sub enclosure hangs down in the middle. Behind the amps on the sides are the other amps and the Bit One. like I said, pain in the ass to get to.








Here, I started to mock up the new amp rack which would be welded out of steel. The MDF is placed up against the same mounting points that the existing system used.








This piece is the mock-up of where the Bit One will sit in the end.








I used this piece to ensure the location of each "amp" when I reassembled it outside the car.








Kinda like that.








Here, I am adding the piece that will trim out the amp.








As you can see, I got the whole front trim piece done and then welded it to the frame. This piece is at an angle so that the Bit one can be seen easier once everything is assembled and to add some style.








Kind of a rough idea of what it will end up looking like.








I wanted to mimic the shape of the trunk with this piece, so I used a piece of 1/4x1/4 mdf and glued it in place. This then became my piece to flush trim with and later, as a template.








Here's the rack being test fitted.


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## handcrafted

This is where I used that piece as a template to turn the shape into a two part piece. Now, I can wrap the majority of it in one material and have a press in insert from another material. You can also see where I tapped the steel for mounting points.








Here's the insert piece.
























In the areas where we could not use screws, I used these 1/2" by 1/8" metal dowel rods which were glued into the bottom of the plastic panel and then fit into the 18" holes in the steel. 
















Here is the top piece all wrapped up. We used a headliner like material which will be used in other parts of the trunk. The aluminum is simply laminate.








here you can see the nice edge left on the bottom because of the 1/16 x 1/2" rabbet I used.


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## handcrafted

Here's some almost finished shots. Note how the wiring is hidden underneath the panel and everything seems to be kinda floating.

So, these new tweeters are freakin huge so i had to think outside the box a bit when it came to incorporating them into the a-pillar. Plus, I have always thought it would be cool to mount a tweeter on a ball & cup kind of mount so that it could be adjustable after the fact. So, here's what i did.
































Yes, that was completely necessary!


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## handcrafted

Before I taped these down, I glued an MDF trim ring to the foam so that the fiberglass would bond to that.
















Ha ha








We were able to get most of the foam out of there.








Then we just ran some acetone on the inside to get rid of the rest.
































We wrapped em in that same headliner material without a seam! Then the speaker mounts and you get an idea of what it's gonna be like. I wasn't too happy with the way it looked at this point because the difference in diameter between the speaker and the ball. It was only like 3/16" but still it was weird. So I made these.


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## handcrafted

Kinda looks like an acorn right?
The existing dash kit was a two part piece. It had one piece that went into the dash opening and was secured with screws. Then it had a trim piece that covered up the mounting screws and trimmed everything out. I pretty much just refinished what was already there.








As you can see, I painted it black, just cuz. Also, you can see the two magnets that are sunk into the piece.








And you can see these two magnets








Here's the dash kit, all wrapped in matching vinyl and magnetized in place. Now, he can remove the dash panel easily if need be without having to pry against the hot glue.

the car is due back any minute to do some more work on it, I'll post more pics when i have them.


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## FartinInTheTub

Great fab skills. Looking forward to some more pics.


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## odj23

I remember reading the article on this car thinking the layout/fit and finish was pretty poor for such a high end install. I'm glad to see this level of work going in. Looks great thus far


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## handcrafted

Thanks guys. Hopefully, we will be done with most of it by Saturday. I'll be sure to post more pics.


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## simplicityinsound

cant wait Jon  cant wait


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## bertholomey

Fantastic! The sound was spectacular when I heard it last. Great equipment and Buzz worked tirelessly on the tune. The improved install will certainly take the Benz to the next level. Looking forward to thr finished tweeter pods. I hope to hear the car after everything gets installed.


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## Arclight

Awesome build. I like the plastic/steel amp rack in the trunk...very functional and sturdy and probably lighter than MDF.


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## JayinMI

I like it, but the only thing that stands out is the dash bezel. It NEEDS to be hydrowrapped to match the woodgrain. Wouldn't change anything else!

Love it.

Jay


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## Buzzman

Guys, thanks for all the nice comments. This project is unfolding better than I had envisioned. I had a great foundation in place, but I knew there were things I could do to improve the aesthetics, which, as Jon said, did not equal the SQ of the car in a number of areas. I also knew there were some things I could do to improve sonics in certain areas. I had specific objectives in mind when I came to Jon and I owe him many thanks for taking my ideas (taken from my home audio experience and some of which probably had him scratching his head) and utilizing his creative insight and fabricating talent to execute things in ways I did not contemplate. I definitely didn't want the Vegas lounge look, and emphasized it had to be modern in look and feel, while not being ostentatious. This has been a truly collaborative effort and I am so happy with the results so far. Everything is an improvement over what I previously had. We encountered a glitch which slowed down the completion of the work, but are hopeful Da Benz will be done this week and ready to roll.


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## Buzzman

JayinMI said:


> I like it, but the only thing that stands out is the dash bezel. It NEEDS to be hydrowrapped to match the woodgrain. Wouldn't change anything else!
> 
> Love it.
> 
> Jay


Jay, it's so funny you would say that. Jon suggested hydrowrapping the console piece from the very beginning and I agree that would be best. But, it was going to take a little more patience to get that done as quickly as I wanted and Buzzman can be impatient when he doesn't have music in his car. :laugh: But, that is something we plan to do down the road. Thanks for your feedback.


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## JayinMI

Glad you took it the way I meant it. I always enjoy Jon's work, and read the article on your car from CA&E, who had great things to say. Hydrowrapping is one of the coolest things I've seen for finishing off the integration of a system, and a friend of mine just started doing it. If I had any woodgrain or anything, I'd be looking into it. Luckily, the trim in my car is just silver. 

Jay


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## Buzzman

JayinMI said:


> Glad you took it the way I meant it. I always enjoy Jon's work, and read the article on your car from CA&E, who had great things to say. Hydrowrapping is one of the coolest things I've seen for finishing off the integration of a system, and a friend of mine just started doing it. If I had any woodgrain or anything, I'd be looking into it. Luckily, the trim in my car is just silver.
> 
> Jay


Jay, I knew exactly where you were coming from with your comment. It was a thoughtful piece of advice. As you can tell, I wanted an execution that really complements the style and image of the car, and having that woodgrain finish on that piece will definitely be in keeping with that objective, and maintaining the factory look. So, we will definitely be pursuing the hydrowrapping.


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## bertholomey

JayinMI said:


> Glad you took it the way I meant it. I always enjoy Jon's work, and read the article on your car from CA&E, who had great things to say. Hydrowrapping is one of the coolest things I've seen for finishing off the integration of a system, and a friend of mine just started doing it. If I had any woodgrain or anything, I'd be looking into it. Luckily, the trim in my car is just silver.
> 
> Jay


Sorry to stray off course a bit, but I'm curious about this hydrowrapping thing you all are talking about. I have woodgrain in my BMW, and I have thought about the carbon fibre wrap of these pieces, but never was convinced I would like the final look. Can you direct me to a website that would demonstrate examples of what you are referring to?


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## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> Sorry to stray off course a bit, but I'm curious about this hydrowrapping thing you all are talking about. I have woodgrain in my BMW, and I have thought about the carbon fibre wrap of these pieces, but never was convinced I would like the final look. Can you direct me to a website that would demonstrate examples of what you are referring to?


Jason, actually, the question is on point. Perhaps we shouldn't have referred to it as "hydrowrapping" because there is a company called Hydrowraps that does a lot of this work on boats. I think Jay and I are referring to the same thing, which is a vinyl wrapping process. The challenge is getting something to actually match the wood grain in your car (i.e., color, direction of grain, etc.) Check these out:

How To Wood Grain - Dashboards, Panels, Installation Kits

Wood Grain Vinyl - Wood Grain Wrap - DINOC Wood Grain Vinyl Wrap - Woodgrain Vinyl Decal Laminate

There may well be other ways to try and achieve this, so I am sure someone else will chime in.


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## JayinMI

The first place I ever saw that did that was from Phoenix Imaging.

Here's a link that explains more about the process:

P.I. Hydrographics

Jay


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## Luke352

handcrafted said:


> Kinda looks like an acorn right?
> .


Looks nice and the quality looks supurb but from an SQ point it bad, bad, bad. The front face plate has alot to do the with the final frequency response of the driver and hence it's sound and adding that trim piece will play silly buggers with the response and you'll get lots of reflections etc...

If SQ is the goal get rid of it.


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## subwoofery

Luke352 said:


> Looks nice and the quality looks supurb but from an SQ point it bad, bad, bad. The front face plate has alot to do the with the final frequency response of the driver and hence it's sound and adding that trim piece will play silly buggers with the response and you'll get lots of reflections etc...
> 
> If SQ is the goal get rid of it.


You're talking about diffraction, right? Not reflections. 

Kelvin


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## xxx_busa

it depends on the depth of the ceramic cone, it may be set back far enough not to matter at all, thing is looks like they'll come off and you'll know immediattly.


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## Luke352

subwoofery said:


> You're talking about diffraction, right? Not reflections.
> 
> Kelvin


Yes, sorry.


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## Buzzman

Luke352 said:


> Looks nice and the quality looks supurb but from an SQ point it bad, bad, bad. The front face plate has alot to do the with the final frequency response of the driver and hence it's sound and adding that trim piece will play silly buggers with the response and you'll get lots of reflections etc...
> 
> If SQ is the goal get rid of it.


The "cap" is purely cosmetic, is pressure fit and removable (), and was designed with diffraction considerations in mind. It's inside edge is a little more than 1/2" from the inside edge of the faceplate, and is chamfered exactly like the face plate, specifically to reduce any possible diffraction. Jon can confirm it's thickness, but I believe that including the vinyl, it's 1/8" thick. I doubt there will be any audible issues, but if so, it's off in an instant.


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## trojan fan

Jon, do you have anymore pics to share?


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## CraigE

Jon, very nice work !
I'd like to see some close ups of how the tweeter pods are mounted.

Craig


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## handcrafted

Thanks Craig. Once the tweeter pods are mounted, I'll definitely post up pics. It's gonna be cool.


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## handcrafted

trojan fan said:


> Jon, do you have anymore pics to share?


I believe I have posted all that is relevant for now. But I'll take a look through.


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## circa40

Great work so far!

Don, I cant wait to see it and hear it...the next time you visit LA in the MBZ of course


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## Buzzman

circa40 said:


> Great work so far!
> 
> Don, I cant wait to see it and hear it...the next time you visit LA in the MBZ of course


Vin, glad you like it. I will definitely try to make a So. Cal. meet in the future. If one were planned for the Palm Springs area, that would be cool.


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## raulgz

i watch the video of this install on youtube! very good job! _


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## trojan fan

raulgz said:


> i watch the video of this install on youtube! very good job! _



need the link....thanks


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## JayinMI

handcrafted said:


> Ha ha


This pic cracks me up. It is exactly like something I would have done. Nice to see Installers don't differ drastically. 

Jay


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## JayinMI

trojan fan said:


> need the link....thanks


Go here:

Mercedes S500 SQ Car Audio - Daily Drivers - Car Audio and Electronics

Then scroll down.

Someone needs to go take away the alarm transmitter from the guy in the background. smh.

Jay


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## Buzzman

JayinMI said:


> This pic cracks me up. It is exactly like something I would have done. Nice to see Installers don't differ drastically.
> 
> Jay



Hey Jay, don't you think Jon should have put a couple of dots right in the middle of each? :laugh:


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## Buzzman

JayinMI said:


> Go here:
> 
> Mercedes S500 SQ Car Audio - Daily Drivers - Car Audio and Electronics
> 
> Then scroll down.
> 
> Someone needs to go take away the alarm transmitter from the guy in the background. smh.
> 
> Jay


But, to be clear, Jon's work, which improves on a number of things shown in that video and the article, is featured in this thread.


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## JayinMI

Yeah, some "nipples" would have been perfect!

I know the youtube video is of the "old install."

Is there a video of the new install?

Jay


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## Buzzman

JayinMI said:


> Yeah, some "nipples" would have been perfect!
> 
> I know the youtube video is of the "old install."
> 
> Is there a video of the new install?
> 
> Jay


No video of the new install (as yet).


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## Bluenote

Buzzman said:


> No video of the new install (as yet).


And the results are??? LOL, no rush Buzzman...But really interested in hearing your impression on the BitOne mod and new set-up


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## Buzzman

Bluenote said:


> And the results are??? LOL, no rush Buzzman...But really interested in hearing your impression on the BitOne mod and new set-up


Man, I am as eager as you to get this completed. :laugh: But, it's still going to take some more time. We got bogged down dealing with some noise issues that I think we have resolved, then my kids came to visit, Jon took a much needed vacation, and I have been tending to my wife who had major surgery last week. When it's done the wait will be more than worth it.


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## Bluenote

Buzzman said:


> Man, I am as eager as you to get this completed. :laugh: But, it's still going to take some more time. We got bogged down dealing with some noise issues that I think we have resolved, then my kids came to visit, Jon took a much needed vacation, and I have been tending to my wife who had major surgery last week. When it's done the wait will be more than worth it.


I wish a timely and full recovery to your wife Buzzman! Looking forward to your follow up when the time is right Sir. 

Bluenote


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## Buzzman

Bluenote said:


> I wish a timely and full recovery to your wife Buzzman! Looking forward to your follow up when the time is right Sir.
> 
> Bluenote


Bluenote, many thanks for the kind words. She is progressing well and should be home soon. And, before long, I can again turn my attention to Da Benz.


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## Buzzman

We are close to completing the rebuild.  One change from the original plan is the tweeter pods. I was able to find a manufacturer in Singapore that makes incredibly cool speaker pods and they were already making items specific to Phass tweeters. So, I acquired the following to house my AT58C (ceramic dome) tweeters:



















Here they are with the AT58 tweeters mounted:










It was quite obvious that I couldn't leave them with the stainless finish, so I found a local shop to powder coat them. I was able to find a dark gray that was a perfect match for the interior vinyl on the dash of my car, so I had them do the body of the pods in that gray, and do the ring in black to match the tweeter: 



















Much better, I think. But, nothing is ever easy, right? I tried installing my new AT58C tweeters in the pods and low and behold the flange on both is just a tad wider than the AT58!!  Go figure. So, I guess Jon will have to do some filing to get them to fit in the pods. 

We also rebuilt the subwoofer enclosure to house my new Dynaudio Esotar2 1200 that is replacing the Ultimo 12. The Esotar is basically a drop-in replacement for the Ultimo, but I wanted to show it off as it is a work of art. So, the new enclosure now has a plexiglass front and is lined with stainless steel laminate, and features LED lighting which will showcase the sub. I will ask Jon to post pics. 

Next week the new enclosure will be installed, along with the amp rack, amps, Bit One.1 and tweeter pods, calibrate amp gains, tune the car and crank her up!!


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## bertholomey

I think those tweeter pods are incredible - I'm really looking forward to seeing them mounted in the car. I'm curious to hear your impressions moving from the Morel which you really liked to the Dyn Sub - should be a great looking display piece. I'll be watching for the new pics!


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## SouthSyde

Looks awesome!! What are all of the components of the system?


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## ErinH

Don, what is the dimension on the tweeter and the pod and where do you plan to cross them? With the overhanging lip of the pod, I'm wondering if you're opening yourself up to any diffraction issues.


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## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> I think those tweeter pods are incredible - I'm really looking forward to seeing them mounted in the car. I'm curious to hear your impressions moving from the Morel which you really liked to the Dyn Sub - should be a great looking display piece. I'll be watching for the new pics!


Glad you like the pods, Jason. I was really impressed with the quality of materials and workmanship. Can't wait to get them installed. I am really looking forward to listening to the Esotar2 1200. I lucked out in that it is truly a drop-in replacement for the Ultimo in just about every way. The only thing we needed to adjust was the top portion of the enclosure as there was a minor difference in the cutout diameter. Given the improved efficiency, a four ohm impedance and greater XMax, I have high hopes for the Esotar.


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## Mr. Randy

WOW Don the pods look awesome...i'm curious how it will look mounted in your vehicle.

Looks like the anthony gallo speakers I have in my room lol


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## Buzzman

SouthSyde said:


> Looks awesome!! What are all of the components of the system?


Thanks! The components are listed in my sig.




bikinpunk said:


> Don, what is the dimension on the tweeter and the pod and where do you plan to cross them? With the overhanging lip of the pod, I'm wondering if you're opening yourself up to any diffraction issues.


Erin, the outer diameter of the flange is 126mm, and I plan to high pass the tweeters at around 10Khz. Using the same "midrange" (which is the Phass FD 0496 full-range speaker), I have had excellent results high passing my A-pillar mounted tweeters between 8 Khz and 10 KHz. This new ceramic dome version of the tweeter is a different animal though, and I will have to do some extensive listening before making a final decision. Regarding the possible diffraction issue, I have thought about that too. I don't anticipate any issues (or they will be negligible) because the inside portion of the lip covering the edge of the tweeter is, I think, far enough away from the dome structure, and because of the curved shape of the lip. The good thing is if I determine there are diffraction issues, I can just ditch that piece and the tweeter will be flush fit inside the pod.


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## subwoofery

Buzzman said:


> Thanks! The components are listed in my sig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erin, the outer diameter of the flange is 126mm, and I plan to high pass the tweeters at around 10Khz. Using the same "midrange" (which is the Phass FD 0496 full-range speaker), I have had excellent results high passing my A-pillar mounted tweeters between 8 Khz and 10 KHz. This new ceramic dome version of the tweeter is a different animal though, and I will have to do some extensive listening before making a final decision. Regarding the possible diffraction issue, I have thought about that too. I don't anticipate any issues (or they will be negligible) because the inside portion of the lip covering the edge of the tweeter is, I think, far enough away from the dome structure, and because of the curved shape of the lip. The good thing is if I determine there are diffraction issues, I can just ditch that piece and the tweeter will be flush fit inside the pod.


Don't think you'll have any diffraction issue with a HP set that high. 
The sound will narrow down to a thinner beam so I'd be more cautious about tweeter aiming... 
Don't remember, where are you planning to install the FD 0496? Kick panels? 

Can't wait to see the results 

Kelvin


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## ErinH

Let's say your diameter is, then, the 126mm. First bump (summation) is at 2721hz, next issue is a null at 2721*2, next a peak again at 2721*3, and etc.

So you can expect a null at 10.1k and a peak at 13.6khz and another bump @ 16.3khz. Of course, this is all 'outside the car' type calculations. When you factor in the pillars/dash/windshield it becomes tough to nail one causation down.

Thing is, though, if you're crossing this high with a driver of this size, it's gone directional by now so the effect of diffraction is pretty marginal, I'd guess.

Which makes me ask the next one... on-axis or off?


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## Buzzman

Mr. Randy said:


> WOW Don the pods look awesome...i'm curious how it will look mounted in your vehicle.
> 
> Looks like the anthony gallo speakers I have in my room lol


This will give you an idea of how they will be mounted (from a car in Singapore that the manufacturer did):










Here the pods don't have the lip, which I think is not as visually appealing as with the lip. 

I plan to mount them a bit higher, and further forward, though, with a slightly different angle.

Randy, by the way, we are working on pods for your tweeters.


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## DAT

Should be one of the BEST In AZ. SUB'd for PICS


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## Buzzman

subwoofery said:


> Don't think you'll have any diffraction issue with a HP set that high.
> The sound will narrow down to a thinner beam so I'd be more cautious about tweeter aiming...
> Don't remember, where are you planning to install the FD 0496? Kick panels?
> 
> Can't wait to see the results
> 
> Kelvin


The beauty of these pods is that I can rotate the ball joint 17 degrees in any direction, and rotate the entire mechanism 360 degrees. This will, of course, allow me to experiment quite a bit with tweeter aiming. But, based on my past experience in Da Benz, I know where the sweet spot is. Now, I will be able to really dial it in. The FD 0496 are mounted in the kicks. Nothing has changed there. I will have to post some pics of the kicks tomorrow.



bikinpunk said:


> . . . Thing is, though, if you're crossing this high with a driver of this size, it's gone directional by now so the effect of diffraction is pretty marginal, I'd guess.


Agreed.




bikinpunk said:


> Which makes me ask the next one... on-axis or off?


See pics above. The positioning will be similar to what I did with my previous tweeters, the AT28Evo:


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## Mr. Randy

Buzzman said:


> This will give you an idea of how they will be mounted (from a car in Singapore that the manufacturer did):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the pods don't have the lip, which I think is not as visually appealing as with the lip.
> 
> I plan to mount them a bit higher, and further forward, though, with a slightly different angle.


Sounds great...I have always thought about how to mount a spherical pod to my pillars. they don't happen to make them for the at28evo do they?


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## Buzzman

Mr. Randy said:


> Sounds great...I have always thought about how to mount a spherical pod to my pillars. they don't happen to make them for the at28evo do they?


Actually, we are working on it.


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## Mr. Randy

Buzzman said:


> Actually, we are working on it.


Nice lmk once available... Thanks Don. You build is going to be awesome!


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## InjunV18

I noticed those tweeter pods are in a gen1 mini. Is this one off thing or a shelf item? I can machine them but the time saved could be worth it. If you prefer to respond by PM that's fine. Thanks


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## Buzzman

Well, the rebuild is back on track now and moving toward completion in the next couple of weeks.  My apologies guys for deleting some of the pics I had posted earlier. I am a newbie when it comes to Photo Bucket, and I decided to create new folders and move pics around, and poof, lost them here. Anyway, here again are the pics of my new tweeter pods:

*BEFORE:* 

















*AFTER (powder coated body to match color of car interior, and ring to match tweeter):*

















These will be mounted directly to the A-pillars, through the A-pillar covers. And, here is a pic of the new ceramic diaphragm AT58C tweeters that will be mounted in the pods:










Now for some more new stuff. My Phass FD 0496 full-range speakers in my kicks which perform mid-range duties will be replaced by these bad boys, the brand new 5" FD 0590:
































My kicks will have to be modified to accommodate these, but it's going to be a fairly straightforward task for Jon.


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## Buzzman

My new Dynaudio Esotar2 1200, which replaces the Morel Ultimo 12:


























I have decided to install the sub initially Infinite Baffle, so my AP enclosure will be retired for a while as I give the IB option a try.

My new sub amp, Tru Technology B2200S with upgraded op amps and caps:



















This replaces the Celestra DA2K, and I have decided to ditch my spare tire and mount this beauty down there. A nice visual complement to my Phass amps. 

The trunk should be completed next Thursday and I will post pics of the finished product then.

Finally, a tease. I have commissioned a pair of midbasses from Audio Technology optimized for use in my doors in my application. They should be completed soon and are based on this Flex Unit design:










For those of you curious about such things, they will have a 20 mm voice coil height in 20 mm gap, which will result in ±7 mm linear movement (8,05 mm including stray field). Here is some preliminary data showing what the final product will likely produce on the test bench:










When these are in my hands I will post pics and a copy of the final data.


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## TrickyRicky

Thats some sweet tweeters and speakers you got there.


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## bertholomey

Wow Buzz! Several replacements in a short amount of time - better to change things out before the install is done versus after. 

I'm really anticpating your review on the Dynaudio sub - the Morel sounded great in your car, and you were happy with it, so I'm curious whether the sub or going IB will be the thing you enjoy better. 
Those AT drivers are beasts - heard them in Kurt's car - again, it will be interesting to hear your impressions comparing what you were using - and to hear how these do on the Phass amp.


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## BigRed

Nice upgrades Buzz! Get this thing done will ya??


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## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> Wow Buzz! Several replacements in a short amount of time - better to change things out before the install is done versus after.
> 
> I'm really anticpating your review on the Dynaudio sub - the Morel sounded great in your car, and you were happy with it, so I'm curious whether the sub or going IB will be the thing you enjoy better.


Yeah, the delay caused me to really stare at the open space in the trunk and reevaluate what I wanted to do. I have made a lot of changes in the car in the 3+ years I have had it, and I have learned a lot in the process. One thing I definitely wanted to do was have things set up in the trunk so I can avoid further physical changes, while having easier access to the equipment for tuning or equipment changes. I was always reluctant to give up my spare tire, but the improvement in run-flat tire technology caused me to rethink that view. I am really happy with the direction in which I am headed. About the Esotar, I tried 3 different IB set-ups in Da Benz before I settled on the AP install with the Ultimo. So, I already have a lot of listening experience with that type of application. In both cases, the sub is mounted in the same location, firing up through my rear deck, and the car is set-up for both applications. The AP set-up with the Ultimo is the barometer for judging anything else I do in the car. I was curious to try the Esotar IB since so many people use it that way. I felt it would be much easier to go that route first, and if I am not satisfied with the results, then putting it in my AP enclosure and mounting that, rather than doing it the other way around. 



bertholomey said:


> Those AT drivers are beasts - heard them in Kurt's car - again, it will be interesting to hear your impressions comparing what you were using - and to hear how these do on the Phass amp.


The Phass RE50 won't be an issue, and the AT spkrs. were designed with those in mind. The amp is a constant current design and impedance fluctuations do not affect its power output. That said, it will see an effective 6 Ohm impedance (the same as my tweeters and midrange), and according to Skaaning, this speaker will have lower distortion than one with a lower impedance. Also, look at the projected sensitivity of these puppies; 90db /1W. The outer diameter and cutout diameter make them a perfect drop-in to my door pods, so no physical changes will be necessary there. They are optimized for mid-bass use in a 3-way system where the mid-range plays VERY low, so I am excited to get them and see if I like what I hear.


----------



## Buzzman

BigRed said:


> Nice upgrades Buzz! Get this thing done will ya??


I am getting there! :laugh: This is one time I can honestly say I benefited from a delay.


----------



## DAT

Incredible selection of High End Gear.


----------



## TokoSpeaker

I love to see that you use Audio Technology midbass drivers.

Good choice, Sir.


----------



## HondAudio

Buzzman said:


> Well, the rebuild is back on track now and moving toward completion in the next couple of weeks.  My apologies guys for deleting some of the pics I had posted earlier. I am a newbie when it comes to Photo Bucket, and I decided to create new folders and move pics around, and poof, lost them here. Anyway, here again are the pics of my new tweeter pods:
> 
> *BEFORE:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *AFTER (powder coated body to match color of car interior, and ring to match tweeter):*


Wow 

Did you custom-turn those on a lathe? Now I'm thinking about ways to mount my 4" midranges, or maybe a pair of smaller extended-rangers.


----------



## DAT

HondAudio said:


> Wow
> 
> Did you custom-turn those on a lathe? Now I'm thinking about ways to mount my 4" midranges, or maybe a pair of smaller extended-rangers.


SHOK - Vendor on here makes these tweeter Pods.


----------



## Fireseeker

subd


----------



## Buzzman

DAT said:


> SHOK - Vendor on here makes these tweeter Pods.


Shok offers similar pods, but I don't know that they actually "make" them. I sourced these from the manufacturer in Singapore, and they have been making them to fit Phass tweeters for some time.



TokoSpeaker said:


> I love to see that you use Audio Technology midbass drivers.
> 
> Good choice, Sir.


They are an excellent product, but I have decided to keep and all Phass front stage and not mess with the synergy these speakers have.


----------



## Buzzman

So, my install is getting closer to completion. Here are images of the tweeter pods mounted with the Phass AT58C tweeters. 




























There will be some cosmetic "clean-up" work around the A-pillar cutout.

I will post more photos of the other work that's in progress.


----------



## stefanhinote

Entire build looks stellar, Jon doing great work as usual, perhaps next time I'm in PHX (I'm out of Tucson) we could meet up, I'd love to hear it.


----------



## Buzzman

stefanhinote said:


> Entire build looks stellar, Jon doing great work as usual, perhaps next time I'm in PHX (I'm out of Tucson) we could meet up, I'd love to hear it.


Thanks! And, it would be my pleasure to give you a demo. Let me know via PM when you are planning to be up this way and I will make it happen.


----------



## stefanhinote

Buzzman said:


> Thanks! And, it would be my pleasure to give you a demo. Let me know via PM when you are planning to be up this way and I will make it happen.


Sounds good. I have to get some speakers in my car before I drive 2hrs Haha.


----------



## Buzzman

*Well, it's time for an update on the system overhaul. First up, the trunk. This is what it looked like before the overhaul began:*










*Then, it was being taken in this direction with Jon:*


















































In addition to the new amp rack, we were going to build a shroud to hide the sub enclosure which accented the wing design in the front of the amp rack. It was a look I wanted, sleek, modern and not gaudy. However, a recent noise problem in the system that had me thinking my RE50 had gone bad, made me realize how impractical the design was. I couldn’t remove an amp without removing the entire amp rack. Fortunately, the amp was not the culprit, but ease of access to all my electronics was what fueled this whole redesign in the first place, so back to the drawing board I went with my new fabricator, Scott Owens (SPL Champ) of Signature Audio in Scottsdale. They are only 10 minutes from my house and Scott does extraordinary fabrication, so therefore the switch.


----------



## DAT

Looking forward to the new updates..

BTW: maybe I have not followed this install lately but I remember a E1200 Dyn 12" being installed?


----------



## Buzzman

*Now, this is the direction in which we are taking the trunk. *

*Amp Rack Before:*










*Amp Rack After:*










*The amp rack has been pared down, with the entire front section surrounding the amps being removed. Yeah, I know, a lot of wasted money. But, you often learn hard, expensive lessons in this hobby, which will pay dividends in the future. Not only did this "haircut" make removal of the amps easy, if necessary, but it increased my trunk space . The Bit One.1 will now be mounted between the two Phass amps, and the TRU amp powering my sub has been moved to the back of the spare tire area to allow for the addition of another Phass amp down the road. 

Spacers were placed beneath the RE4.25 to lift it to the same plane as the RE50:*










*Templates for the new floor and amp/subwoofer enclosure trim:*


















*Also, I will be adding a Cascade Audio power supply, which will be mounted in the bottom of the spare tire well, below the amps, and a bracket with an outlet will be mounted below the rear bumper. No more engine starts to keep the battery from dying during my late night tuning and listening sessions.  In addition, I will be upgrading my battery to an Odyssey. Mercedes gives you virtually no options for battery upgrades. Fortunately, the Odyssey is an excellent battery. *


----------



## DAT

> In addition, I will be upgrading my battery to an Odyssey. Mercedes gives you virtually no options for battery upgrades. Fortunately, the Odyssey is an excellent battery.


My buddy works for Odyssey, awesome batteries,, on a side now the SEARS Diehard Platinums are made by Odyssey.. for much cheaper.... I've used Kinetik, XS Power and all were great batteries but this battery excelled for me plus the warranty kicks a$$, it states lower CCA but started my Engine easier, never dimming lights and never needs a charge even if the truck has not been started in months,

Check out the warranty.....

*Product Description*
THE MOST POWERFUL AND RELIABLE DIEHARD PLATINUM AUTOMOTIVE BATTERY EVER!
*4-year FREE Replacement, 100 Month Pro-Rated Limited Warranty*
740 CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) - Reliable starting power in all weather conditions, due to the use of 99.99% pure virgin lead plates and tin-coated brass terminals
100 Minutes of reserve capacity - Ideal for luxury vehicles with multiple electronic accessories
Longer off-season storage time – Ideal for show cars & classic cars
AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) construction - Provides mounting flexibility & guarantees longer service life
Worry and maintenance-free operation - High purity grade acid held safely in place by glass mats makes a non-spillable design that gives mounting flexibility
Military-grade construction & proven vibration resistance – Ideal for off road applications


----------



## d5sc

Very NICE!!! Definitely need to check this out the next time I'm in Scottsdale visiting my brother and his family.


----------



## Buzzman

*Next up, my subwoofer plans. The Esotar is no more. Look at what arrived today from Denmark – Audio Technology Flex Units:*










*The Esotar is being replaced by one of these:*










*The Standard, which will be tested in my Aperiodic set-up:*










*Or, the “Long Stroker”- built to my specs and to be used IB (This is being installed in Da Benz on Wednesday. ):*










*Both use Audio Technology’s new sandwich cone, but the “Long Stroker” has modifications to its voice coil and uses a different surround. See the difference-
Standard:*










*Long Stroker:*










*Side and back views:*


----------



## Buzzman

*And, no your eyes weren’t deceiving you. There is a pair of their 6” midbasses in that first pic above.  I wasn’t planning on getting these, but they were built to my specs before I put up the stop sign, so I will put these away to be played with further down the road. They have the same outer dimension as my Phass 8” midbasses, so they will drop right into my pods when I feel the urge. But, the way the Phass 8” are thumping, this will be a while down the road.  *


----------



## Buzzman

*Next up, my revised midbass set-up. I reverted to the Phass MD 0875 I used previously, but needed to make some changes to optimize the results. This is what my pods looked like:*


















*To get the best sonic performance out of the Phass midbasses, my “consigliere” (AKA Audionutz) suggested doing an AP set-up. So, Scott went to work on it and this is the result. We used Dacron wrap, and based on the test results, settled on 2 2-inch layers:*


















































*By the way, I should note that all final speaker terminations are direct soldered using Cardas or WBT silver solder.*

*Scott gets back to work on the trunk Wednesday, so later that day I will post pics of the trunk updates and the sub install.*


----------



## SouthSyde

Your "concierge" Steve knows a thing or two! 

Cant wait to one day take a listen to this badboy again!!


----------



## Buzzman

DAT said:


> My buddy works for Odyssey, awesome batteries,, on a side now the SEARS Diehard Platinums are made by Odyssey.. for much cheaper.... I've used Kinetik, XS Power and all were great batteries but this battery excelled for me plus the warranty kicks a$$, it states lower CCA but started my Engine easier, never dimming lights and never needs a charge even if the truck has not been started in months,
> 
> Check out the warranty.....
> 
> *Product Description*
> THE MOST POWERFUL AND RELIABLE DIEHARD PLATINUM AUTOMOTIVE BATTERY EVER!
> *4-year FREE Replacement, 100 Month Pro-Rated Limited Warranty*
> 740 CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) - Reliable starting power in all weather conditions, due to the use of 99.99% pure virgin lead plates and tin-coated brass terminals
> 100 Minutes of reserve capacity - Ideal for luxury vehicles with multiple electronic accessories
> Longer off-season storage time – Ideal for show cars & classic cars
> AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) construction - Provides mounting flexibility & guarantees longer service life
> Worry and maintenance-free operation - High purity grade acid held safely in place by glass mats makes a non-spillable design that gives mounting flexibility
> Military-grade construction & proven vibration resistance – Ideal for off road applications


Dave, thanks for that tip. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that they make a size Group 49. That's what I need, and they are hard to find in upgraded batteries. Odyssey makes a direct drop in replacement though.


----------



## Buzzman

SouthSyde said:


> Your "concierge" Steve knows a thing or two!
> 
> Cant wait to one day take a listen to this badboy again!!


:laugh: Chad you are killing me, man. Not my "concierge," my "consigliere" - as in the Godfather; my trusted sounding board.


----------



## jayhawkblk

Don we need to have a Benz listening session. I get some seat time in your S500 and you can have some time in my E55. I really like where this updated build is going. IB is the way to roll. I wish the I had put 8's in my doors.


----------



## Se7en

Wow.. Stunning drivers. I'm looking forward to hearing this car sometime.


----------



## audionutz

Lookin GREAT Don. How did the AP's turn out performance-wise? U didnt say.....


----------



## GLN305

This is a wonderful build, impresses me everytime I look at it! I like the AP idea, are you going to waterproof it? Makes me want to try an AP application similar to that with my HAT L6SE's.


----------



## Buzzman

audionutz said:


> Lookin GREAT Don. How did the AP's turn out performance-wise? U didnt say.....


Steve, it's absolutely killer as far as I am concerned. I still cannot get over what I am hearing. I have them highpassed at 40Hz, and the low end extension is just phenomenal, with great precision, pace and timing. Just about everyone who listened on Saturday commented that with this performance they could live without a sub. I played a couple of tracks by L'Orchestre de Contrebasses for someone and he commented that he couldn't believe the detail and clarity of the basses that came through with these drivers. I loved them before, but they are even better now. Thanks again for the suggestion.  I will be sending you someone else's comments on the system once I receive his email. It will put a real big smile on your face.


----------



## Buzzman

jayhawkblk said:


> Don we need to have a Benz listening session. I get some seat time in your S500 and you can have some time in my E55. I really like where this updated build is going. IB is the way to roll. I wish the I had put 8's in my doors.


Jay, thanks, and you have a deal! Let’s make those plans soon before the heat rolls in. 



GLN305 said:


> This is a wonderful build, impresses me everytime I look at it! I like the AP idea, are you going to waterproof it? Makes me want to try an AP application similar to that with my HAT L6SE's.


Thanks. Fortunately, in the 4 years I have had this car I have never had any issues with moisture getting into my doors.


----------



## SouthSyde

Buzzman said:


> :laugh: Chad you are killing me, man. Not my "concierge," my "consigliere" - as in the Godfather; my trusted sounding board.


:laugh: LOL

x2 on the Sears die hard battery don. I just recently bought one for my car and I'm running 4 amps and had a little light dimming at full blast, now its completely gone. Its a beast!


----------



## bertholomey

Wow! I wondered what you might be working on since there haven't been updates. Fantastic work! And she had a semi-coming out party at the meet... That is cool as well. 

I guess when you get it completely done.... to the point of satisfaction (beyond mere happiness ), I'll have to cash in some airline miles


----------



## danno14

bertholomey said:


> i'll have to cash in some airline miles


It's well worth it....


----------



## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> Wow! I wondered what you might be working on since there haven't been updates. Fantastic work! And she had a semi-coming out party at the meet... That is cool as well.
> 
> I guess when you get it completely done.... to the point of satisfaction (beyond mere happiness ), I'll have to cash in some airline miles


Thanks, Jason. Slowly, but surely, I am getting to that place you describe. :laugh: I think you can safely plan a trip in May.  And, you will have a place to stay.


----------



## Mr. Randy

The install looks like its coming along great...can't wait to hear your car one of these days. I wish I could fit 8's in my doors. 

That phass 8 looks pretty awesome with the treated corrugated surround.


----------



## DAT

Wow, Keep this up and you'll be in the CA Mag again....


----------



## d5sc

DAT said:


> Wow, Keep this up and you'll be in the CA Mag again....


From my understanding, CA&E's online presence is no longer in existence, unfortunately.


----------



## d5sc

Buzzman said:


> Thanks, Jason. Slowly, but surely, I am getting to that place you describe. :laugh: I think you can safely plan a trip in May.  And, you will have a place to stay.


I think if you told any normal person about potentially flying out to see and listen to someone's car stereo, then he/she would probably think that you are CRAZY !!!???

But here, it would be a perfectly normal thing...!!!


----------



## bertholomey

lol George! 

I'm pretty 'normal' with most other things, but with car audio....I have been accused of being a bit obsessive. I guess the real incentive here is that it wouldn't be just hearing a great car, but hanging out with a great guy.


----------



## d5sc

bertholomey said:


> lol George!
> 
> I'm pretty 'normal' with most other things, but with car audio....I have been accused of being a bit obsessive. I guess the real incentive here is that it wouldn't be just hearing a great car, but hanging out with a great guy.


No doubt! Definitely have met some really nice and cool people along the way due to this hobby of ours... 

Okay, okay, I think an "intervention" is needed so just wait and be prepared for that when you get to Buzz's place...!?!?


----------



## Buzzman

d5sc said:


> From my understanding, CA&E's online presence is no longer in existence, unfortunately.


Yes, that does appear to be the case, unfortunately. Our industry cannot afford to keep losing valuable industry resources like this.



d5sc said:


> I think if you told any normal person about potentially flying out to see and listen to someone's car stereo, then he/she would probably think that you are CRAZY !!!???
> But here, it would be a perfectly normal thing...!!!


Hey George, but anyone who thinks we would be crazy for doing something like that isn’t “normal.” They are deprived. :laugh:



bertholomey said:


> lol George!
> I'm pretty 'normal' with most other things, but with car audio....I have been accused of being a bit obsessive. I guess the real incentive here is that it wouldn't be just hearing a great car, but hanging out with a great guy.


Jason, I think obsessive is an adjective that can aptly describe all of us. My wife keeps telling me she wishes I was as excited about her as I am about my system and these meets. I tell I am, I just express it differently. But, she doesn’t buy it. :laugh: And, thanks for the kind words. The feeling is mutual my friend. 



d5sc said:


> No doubt! Definitely have met some really nice and cool people along the way due to this hobby of ours...


So true. 



d5sc said:


> Okay, okay, I think an "intervention" is needed so just wait and be prepared for that when you get to Buzz's place....


As long as it’s not a police intervention. You have no idea how many times sitting in my driveway with another car audio nut doing a tuning or listening session that neighbors walked by and give us that look that made me wonder if they were going to call the cops on the 2 guys sitting in their cars with smiles on their faces. :lol:

So, I am looking forward to the installation of the “Long Stroker” tomorrow.  Hmmm. Perhaps I shouldn’t have said that after my last comment. Anyway, more pics and updates tomorrow.


----------



## Buzzman

*OK, some more updates re my overhaul. *

*Here is the first part of the work, showing the new trunk floor cut and sketched out:*










*Here it is with the insert cut out:*










*Here is the new trunk floor with the outer portion finished in vinyl and the insert in place. The details are hard to see because the vinyl is an ebony color:*










*Here are some close-ups showing the detail of the cut-out area and the underside of the cutout:*


























*Here is the Audio Technology “Long Stroker” mounted IB to the temporary baffle underneath the package tray:*










*I tuned the system a little on Wednesday evening and the break-in process for the sub started with my drive to Tucson yesterday. It still has a long way to go before it’s fully broken in, but as far as its performance to date is concerned:  :biggrinflip: This is going to be quite special. *


----------



## DAT

That sub is beastly..... I'd love to see it compare to the E1200.


----------



## d5sc

Nice!!!


----------



## Se7en

Looks awesome!


----------



## Se7en

and?????

How are you liking the new beast???


----------



## metalball

Great gear. Must be nice to have deep pockets ;-)


----------



## Buzzman

Se7en said:


> and?????
> 
> How are you liking the new beast???


The "long stroker" is still being broken in (only about 5 or 6 hrs. of playing time so far). I haven't had much time for car audio the past week since my kids are visiting for their Spring Break, but I was able to re-tune the system and it has never sounded this good. This weekend I plan to tweak it further with RTA, etc. Notwithstanding the limited playing time, the "long stroker" has been absolutely superb. Transient response, detail and resolution is as good as I have ever heard. The clarity with which bass notes are reproduced is beyond belief, and there is real "slam," a rare combination of traits in my experience. This sub is so seamlessly integrated with my front stage that yesterday I saw Marcus Miller standing on my hood just left of center stage next to the drummer, waving at me.  I have listened several times to some of my favorite tracks by L'Orchestre de Contrebasses and I do not ever recall being able to so clearly discern each of the six bass players in the soundstage. And, this all will improve with more break-in. I plan to swap it out in 2 weeks for the other version I will then use AP and give that a listen. But, the "long stroker" will be hard to beat in terms of SQ, *AND* it saves me valuable trunk space. More work on the trunk is scheduled for the week of April 16.


----------



## d5sc

Buzzman said:


> The "long stroker" is still being broken in (only about 5 or 6 hrs. of playing time so far). I haven't had much time for car audio the past week since my kids are visiting for their Spring Break, but I was able to re-tune the system and it has never sounded this good. This weekend I plan to tweak it further with RTA, etc. Notwithstanding the limited playing time, the "long stroker" has been absolutely superb. Transient response, detail and resolution is as good as I have ever heard. The clarity with which bass notes are reproduced is beyond belief, and there is real "slam," a rare combination of traits in my experience. This sub is so seamlessly integrated with my front stage that yesterday I saw Marcus Miller standing on my hood just left of center stage next to the drummer, waving at me.  I have listened several times to some of my favorite tracks by L'Orchestre de Contrebasses and I do not ever recall being able to so clearly discern each of the six bass players in the soundstage. And, this all will improve with more break-in. I plan to swap it out in 2 weeks for the other version I will then use AP and give that a listen. But, the "long stroker" will be hard to beat in terms of SQ, *AND* it saves me valuable trunk space. More work on the trunk is scheduled for the week of April 16.


Buzz,

Based on your review, it sounds as if you're not too impressed with them thus far... 

Thanks for the feedback and review! These reviews are extremely helpful for those who don't have access to listening to the speakers in person, like myself. 

George


----------



## lusk888

Hi, nice build. I wasn't aware that you can increase AT drivers x-max. What has your "long stroker" been increased too?


----------



## Z-Roc

awesome project


----------



## bigbubba

Buzzman said:


>


*Really nice install and I am really diggin' the AP midbass setup!*


----------



## Buzzman

lusk888 said:


> Hi, nice build. I wasn't aware that you can increase AT drivers x-max. What has your "long stroker" been increased too?


Thanks for the props. The AT Flex Units are designed so they can be customized. My subwoofer had its XMax increased to 20 mm linear, and 58 mm peak to peak. But, in order to do this, they had to use a broader, stiffer surround and we had no idea what effect that would have on the T/S parameters since it had not been used previously. My original goal was to use the sub in an AP application if the specs remained consistent with the standard sub’s specs. Well, the new surround changed the Qts, Fs and VAS so dramatically that the sub ended up being perfect for an IB application! 



Z-Roc said:


> awesome project


Thanks, I appreciate the kind words.



bigbubba said:


> *Really nice install and I am really diggin' the AP midbass setup!*


Thanks. The performance I now get from my midbasses after implementing the AP set-up is just plain stupendous.


----------



## bigbubba

Buzzman said:


> Thanks. The performance I now get from my midbasses after implementing the AP set-up is just plain stupendous.


I guess I'm gonna have to evaluate how I am looking to implement my midbass....again. Great job.


----------



## xxx_busa

MORE PICS !!!


----------



## subwoofery

And updates  

Kelvin


----------



## KyleMDunn

xxx_busa said:


> MORE PICS !!!


Agreed, I could stare at pics of this build all day.


----------



## Buzzman

OK, so here is the requested update. Well, the "Long Stroker" is the last sub Da Benz will ever see. Promise!  I am not even going to bother trying the other Audio Technology Flex Unit sub (the "standard" version) in an AP configuration as I had planned. The "Long Stroker" is sounding so damn good (and it's not even fully broken in yet), and mounted IB there is no enclosure so I increase my usable trunk space. This sub reproduces bass notes with uncanny clarity, precision and speed. The sandwich cone it uses has extremely low moving mass, and the benefits of this is clearly evident. It is so "musical" too, and my in-car frequency response is as smooth as a baby's butt. As you know, I have use a lot of great subs, with excellent results. However, this one takes the grand prize.  So, on Tuesday, it was permanently mounted to a new baffle. Note how it's countersunk and the use of T-nuts to create a really nice, finished, look. Here are some pics: 


















Now, we turn our attention to finishing off the trunk trim. The panels to trim the amps have been cut and fit into position. They will be wrapped in vinyl and suede and will have a beveled polished aluminum insert on the inside, around the amps to create a nice accent piece. The panel that will be in the middle, hiding the Bit One, will be next. Here are some pics of the early stage of the amp panels:


























More updates will follow until we complete the trunk. Thanks for your continued interest.


----------



## circa40

Great looking setup Don


----------



## metalball

Great looking install!


----------



## d5sc

Don,

Your new install is coming along very nicely! It's nice to hear that AT subs perform so well and what you were looking for (finally)...

Thanks for the listening feedback and reviews as I imagine not too many get to hear the AT subs in person. I hope my AT subs offer similar performance after the install is completed and they are fired up...


----------



## xxx_busa

Looking Good !!! Hurry out to Socal, A line is forming to get a listen !


----------



## sydmonster

nice work!! 
This "overhaul" is a little more than that no?? !!


----------



## Buzzman

OK, time for an update. Progress continues to be made, and we are that much closer to the finish line. Here is the latest:

A. I have replaced my Rayovac Battery with an Odyssey PC1350. Now, I have a truly great power source. 










B. I have added a Cascade PS55 Power Supply to charge the battery off AC power. So, no more engine running in my garage, etc. to keep the car alive!!
Here it is installed:


















C. I then had a Hubbell Marine Inlet installed. It's hard wired to the AC cord of the power supply, and I plug in below the bumper. Here it is:










And, here I am plugged into the Hubbell inlet plug! No more engine noise to keep the battery from dying!! 










D. Finally, I have added a Tru Technology B2110S (with modified power supply, capacitor and op amp upgrades) to power my midbasses. So, the Phass RE50 now powers my Phass 5" mids. The best amp in my system should power the speakers covering the widest frequency range, shouldn't it? Here are pics of the new amp installed:


















Now, I am spending my time setting amp gains and doing more tuning till the final fabrication can be completed.


----------



## Se7en

Awesome!


----------



## DAT

looking better than ever!~


----------



## Buzzman

Se7en said:


> Awesome!


Gabe, thanks. 

I just did some mild tuning and all I can say is that I had no idea what an impact replacing the battery in my car would have.  Only now do I realize how much the old battery was restricting my system's dynamic capabilities. Odyssey kicks major booty!!  I will be doing gain setting with a scope in the next few days, and I am really curious to see how the measurements correlate with what I am now hearing.


----------



## DAT

Buzzman said:


> Gabe, thanks.
> 
> I just did some mild tuning and all I can say is that I had no idea what an impact replacing the battery in my car would have.  Only now do I realize how much the old battery was restricting my system's dynamic capabilities. Odyssey kicks major booty!!  I will be doing gain setting with a scope in the next few days, and I am really curious to see how the measurements correlate with what I am now hearing.


I agree, I have used Kinetik, PowerMaster, Optima,. XS,

The Odyssey's are BADA$$, like i mentioned before if you can get a SEARS Die Hard Platinum (gray) battery to fit ( fits in some cars ) it's made by Odyssey and much cheaper plus 5 year warranty other brands are 1 year. UGH


----------



## Buzzman

DAT said:


> I agree, I have used Kinetik, PowerMaster, Optima,. XS,
> 
> The Odyssey's are BADA$$, like i mentioned before if you can get a SEARS Die Hard Platinum (gray) battery to fit ( fits in some cars ) it's made by Odyssey and much cheaper plus 5 year warranty other brands are 1 year. UGH


Dave, I just can't believe the difference this battery makes. I remember your recommendation about the Sears battery, but they don't make it in the size my car requires. Other than the Rayovac I had been using, the Odyssey PC1350 is the ONLY available after-market battery on the market for my Benz.


----------



## DAT

Buzzman said:


> Dave, I just can't believe the difference this battery makes. I remember your recommendation about the Sears battery, but they don't make it in the size my car requires. Other than the Rayovac I had been using, the Odyssey PC1350 is the ONLY available after-market battery on the market for my Benz.


yeah look at the SPECS....

I gotta hear this Monster of a Benz you have... 

Performance Features:

PHCA: 1,350A at 80°F (27°C); for 5 seconds
CCA: 770A at 0°F (-18°C)
CA/MCA: 960A at 32° (0°C)
HCA: 1080 at 80°F (27°C)
Reserve capacity: 195 minutes on 25amps
Short circuit current: 2,900A
Deep cycling capability: 400 at 80% DOD
*Design life: 12 years
Typical service life: 6 to 8 years*


----------



## dales

wow. loving the changes


----------



## bertholomey

Good info about the battery - thanks. You should have a disc coming to listen to in that amazing car.


----------



## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> Good info about the battery - thanks. You should have a disc coming to listen to in that amazing car.


Jason, thanks! I am looking forward to the disc. Man, the system has me mesmerized. With the new battery and the RE50 powering the mids, the system has gone to another level. Along with slamming dynamics, I have now attained a level of realism that is difficult to describe in words.


----------



## BuickGN

Looks great. I hope to hear it one day.

Not to nitpick but I'm pretty sure both the Odyssey and Platinum are made by EnerSys vs Odyssey making the Platinum. Yes, I'm bored.


----------



## Buzzman

BuickGN said:


> Looks great. I hope to hear it one day.
> 
> Not to nitpick but I'm pretty sure both the Odyssey and Platinum are made by EnerSys vs Odyssey making the Platinum. Yes, I'm bored.


Well, there's nothing wrong with being picky. Technically, you are correct. EnerSys is the corporate entity, Odyssey is the brand they make. But like most things, the brand name is what registers with most people.


----------



## d5sc

Don,

Very nice!!! Definitely want to take a listen to your system the next time I am out in Scottsdale.

Hmmm, maybe we can call your Benz "The Magic Benz" or "The Magic Bu(z)z"...


----------



## Buzzman

d5sc said:


> Don,
> 
> Very nice!!! Definitely want to take a listen to your system the next time I am out in Scottsdale.
> 
> Hmmm, maybe we can call your Benz "The Magic Benz" or "The Magic Bu(z)z"...


 George, as good as The Magic Bus is, I would consider such a moniker the ultimate compliment. I am looking forward to that visit of yours. Just let me know when you will be here and I will be the most gracious of hosts. I still cannot believe the difference the new Odyssey battery has made in my system's overall performance. I have dynamics and output like I have never had before. Output levels that I previously obtained at 10 on the volume level of my DRC, I now get at 20 or higher, and it sounds effortless.  This change has had a greater positive impact on my system than any other single change I have made recently. It's now so evident that my previous battery was stifling the system. With a more capable power source, everything else in the system is able to show their full capabilities. And, with the RE50 now powering my mids, incredible. Absolutely incredible.


----------



## BigRed

Nice work. In response to the battery, that's why I use 6 kinetiks in my beast. U never wanna starve your power 

Buzz, do your midbass's aperiodic into the door?


----------



## Buzzman

BigRed said:


> Nice work. In response to the battery, that's why I use 6 kinetiks in my beast. U never wanna starve your power
> 
> Buzz, do your midbass's aperiodic into the door?


Hey Jim, 6 Kinetiks?!  Geez. I had no idea you had a generator in the back of Big Red. But, you are so right. I had no idea what I was missing. Now I am eyeing that factory CD changer location for a possible second battery. Gotta balance out the weight distribution you know. :laugh: And, yes, my midbasses are aperiodic into the doors.


----------



## BuickGN

Buzzman said:


> Hey Jim, 6 Kinetiks?!  Geez. I had no idea you had a generator in the back of Big Red. But, you are so right. I had no idea what I was missing. Now I am eyeing that factory CD changer location for a possible second battery. Gotta balance out the weight distribution you know. :laugh: And, yes, my midbasses are aperiodic into the doors.


This Mercedes, it's your daily driver, right? I doubt my low wattage system could benefit from a second battery (I have a Platinum under the hood) but potential reliability problems have always scared me from trying. I'll be following your progress if you decide to try it.

One last question, do you run a highpass filter on your aperiodic midbasses?

I found out I'm going to Phoenix/Mesa to visit some friends at the end of summer, I would love to hear your car one day.


----------



## Buzzman

BuickGN said:


> This Mercedes, it's your daily driver, right? I doubt my low wattage system could benefit from a second battery (I have a Platinum under the hood) but potential reliability problems have always scared me from trying. I'll be following your progress if you decide to try it.
> 
> One last question, do you run a highpass filter on your aperiodic midbasses?
> 
> I found out I'm going to Phoenix/Mesa to visit some friends at the end of summer, I would love to hear your car one day.


Yes, Da Benz is my daily driver. With the Cascade power supply in place, the need for a second battery has been greatly reduced. But, I guess it can't hurt to have separate batteries for operating your sound system and the other electrical/engine functions in your car to protect the engine battery from substantial drainage and deep cycling. My system is also very low power (25 watts to tweeters, 50 watts to mids, 110 watts to midbasses and 600 watts to sub), and the Phass amps draw very little current. But, after experiencing first hand how inadequate my prior battery was (despite CCA specs that bettered the Odyssey, and reserve power that was rated almost the same), the investment in a second battery will be given serious consideration. 

Regarding my midbasses, yes, I use a high pass filter on them.

If you make it out to Phoenix, do let me know. I would love to get together. There is an outside chance I might make a trip to So. Cal. to attend one of the meets (which I really miss), so there might be an opportunity there.


----------



## BuickGN

Buzzman said:


> Yes, Da Benz is my daily driver. With the Cascade power supply in place, the need for a second battery has been greatly reduced. But, I guess it can't hurt to have separate batteries for operating your sound system and the other electrical/engine functions in your car to protect the engine battery from substantial drainage and deep cycling. My system is also very low power (25 watts to tweeters, 50 watts to mids, 110 watts to midbasses and 600 watts to sub), and the Phass amps draw very little current. But, after experiencing first hand how inadequate my prior battery was (despite CCA specs that bettered the Odyssey, and reserve power that was rated almost the same), the investment in a second battery will be given serious consideration.
> 
> Regarding my midbasses, yes, I use a high pass filter on them.
> 
> If you make it out to Phoenix, do let me know. I would love to get together. There is an outside chance I might make a trip to So. Cal. to attend one of the meets (which I really miss), so there might be an opportunity there.


That would be great if you could make it to one of these meets. I still miss my old friends in Mesa, that was a great place to live. I try to make it out there once a year but that doesn't always happen.

I had a similar experience when I went with the Platinum battery but with the way things are around here I was afraid to post it. I figured it would be chalked up to subjective bias and a flame war would follow. It's good to know I'm not crazy... or we're both crazy lol.


----------



## rawdawg

I refuse to believe your system sounds any better than when I last heard it...


----------



## Buzzman

rawdawg said:


> I refuse to believe your system sounds any better than when I last heard it...


Hey Jimmy, it does.  I hope I am able to give you a listen sometime soon.


----------



## Buzzman

OK, it's time for another update on Da Benz system overhaul. First, I decided to remove my pods. This is an example of practicality taking precedence. They looked killer and the sound was that too, but their size and position made it difficult for me to insert my sun shield and we can't be parking this car in this AZ sun without a sun shield. Also, because they could only be tightened from inside the pod, whenever they shifted out of position, the tweeter had to removed in order to reposition them and tighten them. Pain in the ass. The weight of the tweeters made it difficult for the pods to remain locked in position, so practical considerations won out. So, here is a look at my temporary solution- the Phass DTM 25 mounted in the a-pillar firing parallel to the dash and windshield:



















The results have been stellar. This positioning actually improved the phase relationship with the midrange, resulting in a more focused and stable image. So, there have been dividends. Permanent mounting of either the AT58C or the DTM25 will occur down the road.

The other recent change (made 2 days ago) has me using a custom Phass 2-way crossover that I had made for me about 3 years ago to provide a high pass filter to the tweeter at 8 kHz and a low pass filter to the midrange at the same frequency. It has very high quality parts, including paper condensers, but was built on the chassis of the entry level crossover. My thinking was that if this worked, I could eliminate one amp from the chain and further simplify my system (and sell something for some dinero, :laugh. So, the RE50 is now powering the mids and tweets through this crossover, and I have bridged the RE 4.25 to power the midbasses. Imaging is still pinpoint as before but my stage rose about 4 inches and extended out further onto the hood!  Here are some pics of the crossover mounted in my spare tire location adjacent to the Tru amps:


















Next, I had interconnects made using Phass cable and RCAs. Here you go:


----------



## Buzzman

Now, on to the trunk itself. Over the past couple of days a lot of progress has been made. Here you see the various panels now fabricated and in position and ready for wrapping:


----------



## Buzzman

Now, here is the (almost) finished trunk (panels wrapped in vinyl and ultra suede, with aluminum trim). I say almost because some aluminum trim will be added to the inside of the suede insert around the amps, and we have to add another piece to the right side of the trunk to make it flush with the wall. 













































Wonderful fit and finish if I may say so. Many thanks to Scott Owens for his incredible attention to detail and for executing my vision beyond my expectations.


----------



## TrickyRicky

Thats one sweet looking trunk.


----------



## bertholomey

Fantastic results Buzz! Love the finishing touches, and I'm intrigued by the crossovers....


----------



## d5sc

Buzz,

The trunk install is very clean and understated which is very befitting of the Benz. Very NICE!!!


----------



## wdemetrius1

Beautiful install. I would love to hear it one day.


----------



## bbfoto

Lookin' fantastic!


----------



## Buzzman

Thanks for all the positive feedback guys. It's been quite a journey getting to this stage.


----------



## ISTundra

I probably get to listen to Buzzman's system more than anyone else. I always leave impressed and with a better sense of goals that I want to strive for in my own system. But I do have to agree with Buzzman on the latest changes he's made in his install. 

With the passive crossover addition and the tweeter changes -the stage is really high and way out front. It all sounds well focused and crystal clear. I assumed the tweeter aiming as he has it would wreak havoc on the imaging & focus, but it doesn't. It sounds really great!

The trunk is finishing up nicely too. It's very clean and tastefully done.


----------



## danno14

Stunning Don, absolutely stunning!

(Now I have to find a reason to get back to AZ)


----------



## Buzzman

danno14 said:


> Stunning Don, absolutely stunning!
> 
> (Now I have to find a reason to get back to AZ)


Thanks, Dan. You have a place to rest at Chez Gibson the next time you are in town, so come on down.


----------



## sydmonster

very neat... very.


----------



## fj60landcruiser

Wow, youve got skills!


----------



## Buzzman

fj60landcruiser said:


> Wow, youve got skills!


Man, I wish I had such skills. As I noted, the most recent work is courtesy of Scott Owens @ Signature Audio in Scottsdale. I provide the ideas, he executes and often improves on them.


----------



## BigRed

Scott Owens is most noted for being an spl monster maker. I'm glad to see his all around skills being showcased.


----------



## EricP72

Impressive!! Thats all I can say. I love understated installs.


----------



## Mic10is

BigRed said:


> Scott Owens is most noted for being an spl monster maker. I'm glad to see his all around skills being showcased.


He's a great fabricator in general. He's also a TV star
Car Warriors


----------



## Buzzman

BigRed said:


> Scott Owens is most noted for being an spl monster maker. I'm glad to see his all around skills being showcased.


Scott has mad fabrication skills. You should see the custom motorcycle he is currently building. And, to top it off, he competes in fly fishing! He is really diverse.


----------



## HondAudio

BigRed said:


> Scott Owens is most noted for being an spl monster maker. I'm glad to see his all around skills being showcased.


Isn't he the guy who had a truck with "only" 13 12" subwoofers that were able to hit 180 dB?


----------



## damonryoung

Mic10is said:


> He's a great fabricator in general. He's also a TV star
> Car Warriors


Of course the first episode I saw of this show he put 4 15"s in a ext cab F150. In his words, "We're trying to break the windshield". :laugh:


----------



## BigRed

It was an f250 and I believe he was one of the first to break 180. This is getting OT. Let me just say the dude gets down with installing


----------



## Buzzman

OK, my A-pillars are now completed. Scott Owens continued his fabulous work. I decided to retain the Phass DTM25 for tweeter function due to the very high frequency at which my tweeters are high-passed and to keep the A-pillars looking as factory and stealth as possible.

*Before:*



















*After):*

*Mounting Rings:*









*Pillar covers stripped of factory headliner and tweeter opening cut:*










*Unfinished passenger side pillar cover in place to check fitment:*










*The finished A-pillars (Properly angled so they fire parallel to the windshield):*


----------



## bertholomey

Very nice result - very aesthetically pleasing - certainly matches the quality of the interior of the car.


----------



## Melodic Acoustic

Looks great Buzzan. Love the Trunk install very clean.

Question With the use of the passive and the mid and tweeter running off them and the tweeter in the A-Pillars and the Mids in the Kicks. How close are the path length between the two. I would guess they are very close to being the same for it to work so well. But I could be wrong. 

Once more beautiful install.


----------



## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> Very nice result - very aesthetically pleasing - certainly matches the quality of the interior of the car.


Thanks, Jason. That was the objective and I am extremely pleased with the finished product. 



Audible Physics said:


> Looks great Buzzan. Love the Trunk install very clean.
> 
> Question With the use of the passive and the mid and tweeter running off them and the tweeter in the A-Pillars and the Mids in the Kicks. How close are the path length between the two. I would guess they are very close to being the same for it to work so well. But I could be wrong.
> 
> Once more beautiful install.


Mark, thanks for your kind words. Regarding the passive crossover set-up I am using, the path lengths are fairly close, but I attribute the results I am hearing to much more precisely matched output levels at the crossover point, and better phase relationship. 

Another improvement that I made recently is installation of these sweet aluminum mounting rings for my midbasses that ISTundra hooked up for me through his source. They are ¼” thick and anodized, and the mounting holes are threaded. I wanted to further decouple the midbasses from the pods and these were a perfect solution: 

















The rings are mounted directly to my door pods, and my midbasses are mounted on them with a strip of Cascade Audio VB5 between. Now I can remove and mount the midbasses without having to drill into the MDF in the door pods, and the real sonic benefit is there is less resonance in the doors.


----------



## anejo99

Looks great. 
I am also local in AZ and have a similar car (2003 S55) and am looking to do a nice install (although perhaps not quite to your standard). I like your IB and trunk set-up - figure why reinvent the wheel. I was going to stop by Signature Audio and talk to Scott - any advice or suggestions? Thanks


----------



## Buzzman

anejo99 said:


> Looks great.
> I am also local in AZ and have a similar car (2003 S55) and am looking to do a nice install (although perhaps not quite to your standard). I like your IB and trunk set-up - figure why reinvent the wheel. I was going to stop by Signature Audio and talk to Scott - any advice or suggestions? Thanks


You couldn't find a better guinea pig than my car, :laugh:. PM me your contact info and let's talk.


----------



## sweefu

I like your boot install a lot, so neat. Very jealous of your fabrication skills.


----------



## Buzzman

It's time for an update folks! Da Benz has been sounding amazing, but the search for audio nirvana never ends.  Most recently I installed 1/4 inch aluminum mounting rings in my midrange kickpanel pods, with audible benefits. Thanks to ISTundra for sourcing these for me. 

Now, my efforts are directed at optimizing my tweeter set-up. My current install features the Phass DTM25C ceramic dome tweeter mounted as shown below:




















This mounting has resulted in tremendous soundstage depth, and improved stage width, but I can hear, with my trusty music tracks that truly test upper midrange and treble purity, that reflections are playing havoc with the desired tonal balance in the 8kHz /10kHz range, causing a “hardness” and lack of precision on notes in that frequency range. The addition of a custom dash cover helped significantly, but did not eradicate the problem, so I was not satisfied. One trusted ear told me that what he heard was fantastic, and that I was being too critical. But, that’s my nature, :laugh:. So, I started thinking back to prior tweeter installs I had, considered the various tradeoffs, and decided to hell with tradeoffs! I want the best performance possible. This caused me to rethink how I approached mounting my tweeters, and after modeling all sorts of concepts in my head and on paper, I realized that a waveguide application might be the magic elixir.

So, with the assistance of Dave Pellegrene, a most wonderful and intelligent speaker designer with whom I recently became acquainted, I am now developing a waveguide for use with my Phass tweeters- the DTM25C and the AT58C. Which tweeter makes the cut will depend on the test results. 
Because my tweeters are high-passed at a very high frequency, the concept of a waveguide is aesthetically viable since it might not be larger than 4 inches. I just don’t want to disrupt the high end feel of my car’s interior. Here are photos of an initial mock-up of a 4” waveguide for the Phass DTM25C.



















While this version has a rolled edge, the plan is to build one that will taper nicely and allow for recessed mounting into my A-pillars. But, all of this means nothing if the waveguide isn’t going to be effective for my purposes. So, this is where testing comes into play. Dave conducted measurements of the DTM25C flush mounted on a 10"x14" baffle measuring at 1 meter gated at 5ms. Here are the FR and Polar response plots:










Pretty impressive, but as you start going off axis note the significant output drops between 12 kHz and 15kHz, which gets worse the further off axis you go. After examining this graph, it’s clear that my cross-firing, approximately 90 degrees off axis mounting did not have me exploiting the best characteristics of this tweeter. Couple that with the inevitable surface and windshield reflections, and . . . . You get the idea. 

Next is a measurement with the waveguide added on top of the DTM25C so it is about an inch above the baffle. 










You can see in this graph how well the waveguide is controlling the directivity down to about 2.5 kHz by how parallel the 10 degree increments align down to that point. If you compare the flat baffle and waveguide graphs you will see how the off axis measurements after about 60 degrees are lower in spl on the waveguide graph. This is telling us it is directing the wave front forward which in turn means fewer reflections off axis. Also if you look at the flat baffle graph the bottom end stays about the same spl and as you go off axis the top end drops off. With the waveguide it levels the spl off quite a bit so the difference in spl from the lower end to the upper end as you go off axis is much more even. 


Next is a measurement with the waveguide and the insertion of a 3uF cap. 










You can really see how even the response is now. The graphs also show that I will want to go no more than 30 degrees off axis for the best overall response, with 20-25 degrees probably being optimal. 

Our next round of testing will involve mocking up a windshield/dash set up to see how well the guide does in reducing or eliminating those reflections, and hopefully give us a good idea of what axes to stay within to help eliminate first reflections. 

The initial testing indicates that the waveguide will fulfill its intended purpose. Just to get a feel for things, Dave developed an elliptical waveguide (4" wide x 3" tall) for the AT58C. The tweeter was mounted in a 10"x14" baffle, with the mic set up 1 meter away, 35 degrees off axis. On the other side of the baffle a piece of cardboard was placed about 8" away from the tweeter, to simulate a reflective surface like a windshield. He put a 4uF cap on the tweeter. Here is the FR graph of this initial set-up. Blue is the the tweeter mounted in the flat baffle. Red is the setting with the waveguide on top of the tweeter.










You can see significant smoothing, indicating that the guide is stopping quite a bit of the early reflections. 

We are moving next to a more elaborate set-up to simulate an A-pillar mount, and the dash and windshield surfaces. Images and test results will be posted accordingly. 

Based on what we have seen thus far, there is little doubt Da Benz will be sporting waveguide mounted tweeters in time for the next Phoenix area GTG. Scott Owens will be tackling this task beginning April 15th


----------



## sydmonster

Great bit of testing there... very interested in your next bit of waveguide experimentation you do!!


----------



## bertholomey

Fantastic work Buzz - thank you for sharing. You mentioned you cross the tweeters high - I will look back at earlier posts to see where the crossover point / slope was mentioned - I'm doing the same, so I'll be interested in the data you collect.


----------



## ErinH

Good data. Dave's waveguides are top class and everything I've seen from him indicates the R&D effort is solid. 

Also nice to see others realizing the extreme benefit of smooth off axis response and controlled dispersion. When sound power is right, everything else can only get better.


----------



## thehatedguy

x2 Dave makes some nice waveguides...has come a long way in the last year or so making them.


----------



## Buzzman

Time for another update. In addition to my new tweeter set-up (which I will provide an update about soon), I had Scott Owens finish off my trunk by building a trim panel for my subwoofer amp, the Tru Technology B2200S. This is the progression:


----------



## bbfoto

That looks beautiful, Don. I like how you're keeping it classy to match the car. Understated and elegant. Nice work by Scott O.

Really interested in hearing more about the tweeter waveguide conclusions!  I think Erin probably has this area dialed-in and implemented to the highest degree with his setup. Gonna be hard to match IMO, but I'd like to see some good alternatives for those of us who don't want to/or can't put 5" mids in our A-pillars.

Thanks for sharing the data.


----------



## sydmonster

nice!! works well there.


----------



## Buzzman

OK, here is more on the latest with Da Benz.

Now that initial measurements with a waveguide showed distinct benefits, both the AT58C and the DTM25C were fitted with two different types of waveguides for testing. In order to get the most valid measurements, Dave Pellegrene replicated, as best as possible, my car's dash and windshield so we could determine to some extent what will happen in the car. He conducted his measurements from the listening distance in my car. Here is a photo of his attempt to replicate my car's interior, even the hump in front of my steering wheel:



Here are photos of the AT58C in a 4" round waveguide:






Here is the DTM25C in a 4" round waveguide:




After some initial testing, we determined that a 4" x 3" elliptical waveguide, with an offset throat around the tweeter, offered better results as directivity was better controlled. 

Here are the Frequency Response and Polar Response graphs of the AT58C in such a 4" x 3" elliptical waveguide:




Here are the Frequency Response and Polar Response graphs of the DTM25C in the 4" x 3" elliptical waveguide:




Note that the DTM25C waveguide combination is offering smoother response off axis than the AT58C waveguide combination. This is likely because we were able to get better fitment of the waveguide throat around the DTM25C since it doesn't have the beveled edge around the screen that the AT58C has. Look at how smooth that Frequency Response is until you get to about 80 degrees off axis. There is a dip in the on axis response around 15 kHz, which most people will not hear, and which can be EQ'd. But, look at how smooth and similar the curves are from 10 - 50 degrees off axis. The waveguide is doing a terrific job of controlling directivity and minimizing reflections, and the off axis output level is sufficiently lower than the on-axis output level that the sound from both speakers should arrive at the same time at the listening position. This should give a strong, focused soundstage for the passenger as well. In light of this, and the shallower mounting depth of the DTM25C combination, we settled on the DTM25C for the development of the final waveguide application.

Here is the final DTM25C waveguide combination:




I am really pleased with how they turned out, and they will easily mount in my A-pillars. Now, for the A-pillar work. 

Here are the waveguides and the mounting rings Scott made:



Now, after the proper angles have been determined, positioned for fiberglassing:



 

Fiberglassed, and waveguides and tweeters mounted to confirm fitment:





Wrapped in vinyl, and mounted:











These are being linked to my FD0590 full ranges via a custom passive crossover designed to seamlessly integrate the two. In order to find the ideal crossover frequency and slopes, Dave constructed the following to simulate the mounting of the tweeter and fullrange speakers in my car:




Here is a photo of the custom crossovers:



Here they are, mounted in the trunk, behind the subwoofer amp:




Now, I am just listening and tuning, and will leave it to those who hear my set-up to opine on what they hear.


----------



## Notloudenuf

This is amazing.
How did he make the waveguides? 3D printer?


----------



## DAT

Always a pleasure to see the new things you do to da Benz


----------



## BigRed

Don, where are u crossing these over at?


----------



## Mic10is

waveguides are badass


----------



## subwoofery

Sweet azz waveguides :thumbsup: 

Kelvin


----------



## bbfoto

Nice! Thanks for the write up and photos. Great work on the A-pillars. Where do we order these?


----------



## mattyjman

looking awesome buzz... i'll have to come out and take a listen when you get it all finished up. the amp panel looks wonderful


----------



## ISTundra

I got to eyeball and listen to Buzzman's new waveguide tweeters today. In short... they're friggen awesome.

Visually, the waveguide pillars really look great. They blend well with the interior, and are really clean and classy. The installer really did a good job with shaping and finishing these off. It looks like the car could've came stock with them. 

Sonically, they sound wonderful. The tonality is there, the stage is really wide and there's a nicely defined center image. I like that the there's more "airiness" to the top end than before, and a lot of the time you couldn't really localize the midrange frequencies at all. The stage is not as far out as it was the last time I heard da Benz, but it still has nice depth and sounds more dynamic than it did way out front. We RTA'ed the response and the top end was nice and smooth.

Really well-executed idea. Now I want to do this in my install.


----------



## ISTundra

Forgot to mention... the trunk is really nicely done as well.


----------



## Buzzman

Notloudenuf said:


> This is amazing.
> How did he make the waveguides? 3D printer?


Dave has molds that he used to customize my waveguides based on my goals and the performance of the Phass tweeters. They are made from acrylic. As he informed me, some tweeters just don’t like waveguides. He couldn’t believe the response of the Phass tweeters. A match made in waveguide heaven. 



BigRed said:


> Don, where are u crossing these over at?


Jim, we settled on a crossover frequency of 6kHz. 



mattyjman said:


> looking awesome buzz... i'll have to come out and take a listen when you get it all finished up. the amp panel looks wonderful


Matt, come out to the Get Together next Saturday (May 18th) and you can get some time in the driver’s seat.


----------



## mattyjman

i wish i could, but i'll be out of town... perhaps another time... when my car is done as well


----------



## ecbmxer

I didn't see any pics of how your midranges are mounted. They are in the kicks, right? How are they aimed? Love the waveguides!


----------



## svnuss

Just listened to this car at the College Station SQ event and it sounded great.


----------



## bbfoto

Nice. What tracks did you listen to? Wondering how the image placement is with for instance the 7-beat snare drum track?


----------



## svnuss

Not sure what tracks, but it was Buzzman's demo disc.


----------



## Bnixon

I do have to say Buzzman, your car sounded amazing! Great job man! Enjoyed getting to meet ya this weekend.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## tate007

Sick install.


----------



## Buzzman

svnuss said:


> Just listened to this car at the College Station SQ event and it sounded great.





Bnixon said:


> I do have to say Buzzman, your car sounded amazing! Great job man! Enjoyed getting to meet ya this weekend.


Steven, BNix, thanks for your kind words. I am happy you enjoyed your listening experience in Da Benz. I wish you guys were the judges at the event, LOL.

I hope you both made it home safely. I think you both are in the Houston area. I got a dose of food poisoning on the way home yesterday and have been pretty much laid up in bed since last night.  Now, I am finally starting to feel better.


----------



## Bnixon

Man, sorry to hear that! Glad your starting to feel better.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Deadpool_25

This thread needs a bump!

I had the chance to hear Don's Benz at the GTG this past weekend. It sounds _in-freaking-credible_. A guy at the event, Brett, said it sounded "effortless" and I can't agree more. It has a very smooth, focused, and dynamic sound and feel that gave me goosebumps.

On top of that, Don is a truly great guy. I'm very much looking forward to getting my install "finished" and stealing as much of his time as I can learning about tuning and ways to improve it. I'm super lucky to be in the same town as you, Don.


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## bertholomey

I couldn't agree more! Don is a fantastic fellow, and you are very fortunate to be so close. I heard Da' Benz ages ago, and it was terrific. It has gone through many changes since then, and I can only imagine how good it sounds now. 

Don has a wealth of knowledge and experience in music and in audio, and he is incredibly gracious about sharing it. I foresee many enjoyable hour listening to Buzzman's SQ discs in your BRZ.


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## Buzzman

Deadpool_25 said:


> This thread needs a bump!
> 
> I had the chance to hear Don's Benz at the GTG this past weekend. It sounds _in-freaking-credible_. A guy at the event, Brett, said it sounded "effortless" and I can't agree more. It has a very smooth, focused, and dynamic sound and feel that gave me goosebumps.
> 
> On top of that, Don is a truly great guy. I'm very much looking forward to getting my install "finished" and stealing as much of his time as I can learning about tuning and ways to improve it. I'm super lucky to be in the same town as you, Don.


Kevin, thank you VERY much for your extremely kind words. I will be happy to help you in any way I can in your quest for the best possible music listening experience in your car. Da Benz has been a labor of love for me and statements like yours and the many other highly complimentary remarks I received at the GTG affirm that my efforts have been worthwhile. I am really glad you enjoyed what you heard. To my ear Da Benz has never sounded better, and I think those who have listened to it in its various iterations will agree. I don't know how much more improvement I can achieve, but I have a few other ideas I will be pursuing.  You will have a chance to compare the results at the next GTG. For those who wish to know, the latest changes to Da Benz are a new Phass tweeter (AT25 - the brand new baby brother to the AT58 - fabric diaphragm and alnico magnet) and waveguide combination, revisions to the custom passive crossovers that operate between my tweeters and midranges, and further mods to my Bit One:


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## Buzzman

bertholomey said:


> I couldn't agree more! Don is a fantastic fellow, and you are very fortunate to be so close. I heard Da' Benz ages ago, and it was terrific. It has gone through many changes since then, and I can only imagine how good it sounds now.
> 
> Don has a wealth of knowledge and experience in music and in audio, and he is incredibly gracious about sharing it. I foresee many enjoyable hour listening to Buzzman's SQ discs in your BRZ.


Jason, thanks to you as well for your very kind words. I wish we were closer because you are a class act I wish I could spend more time with.


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## JayinMI

I've seen a few people have had problems with BitOne's killing tweeters. I've never had an issue, but last car I didn't run tweeters. I plan to in my next iteration, and was wondering if you had had any issues to begin with, and if so, did the mods the the BitOne solve them?

Jay


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## Buzzman

JayinMI said:


> I've seen a few people have had problems with BitOne's killing tweeters. I've never had an issue, but last car I didn't run tweeters. I plan to in my next iteration, and was wondering if you had had any issues to begin with, and if so, did the mods the the BitOne solve them?
> 
> Jay


Jay, I have had 3 different unmodified Bit Ones in my car, and have never had the issue you mention.


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## SkizeR

time to bring this back from the dead. i got a short demo of Buzz's car this morning and man does it sound good. looks great to. the install is top notch. this was easily the best sounding car i have heard (in my opinion) besides josh kleckners. only reason i like josh better was because it had more bass and im into output. but other than that, this car staged and imaged much better than anything else ive heard. i was even purposely trying to block the midrange in the kicks with my legs and it did not effect it at all. absolute dead center with some sounds coming from way outside the cars boundary. there was perfect transition from sub to midbass. i was even purposely trying to look at the speakers and try to hear the sound coming from them, but it was impossible. they were absolutely invisible. you can hear every little detail in the recordings. even on live recordings you can hear the crowd singing along back at the windshield lol. BTW buzz, my father seems pretty interested in hearing it. you guys would get along great


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## Bluenote

Great review!


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## Buzzman

SkizeR said:


> time to bring this back from the dead. i got a short demo of Buzz's car this morning and man does it sound good. looks great to. the install is top notch. this was easily the best sounding car i have heard (in my opinion) besides josh kleckners. only reason i like josh better was because it had more bass and im into output. but other than that, this car staged and imaged much better than anything else ive heard. i was even purposely trying to block the midrange in the kicks with my legs and it did not effect it at all. absolute dead center with some sounds coming from way outside the cars boundary. there was perfect transition from sub to midbass. i was even purposely trying to look at the speakers and try to hear the sound coming from them, but it was impossible. they were absolutely invisible. you can hear every little detail in the recordings. even on live recordings you can hear the crowd singing along back at the windshield lol. BTW buzz, my father seems pretty interested in hearing it. you guys would get along great


Nick thank you very much for your feedback. I am glad you enjoyed your time in Da Benz. I wish we had more time to really explore my music collection. We will plan on a much longer demo the next time you are in the Phoenix area. Please do connect me with your Dad. I always like to meet another music lover, especially one who has worked with some of my favorite musicians.


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## Coppertone

I have to say that I am soo glad to see someone with an older although great car doing things with it. Most the people whom I deal with won't keep a car past 3 years and are continually trading their in. I've always been a fan of taking my older cars and improving upon the areas that I feel are lacking. In your case, your car as a whole is just beautiful. I don't have the ear and musical taste that most sq guys have, but I like what I like. Seeing and hearing how passionate you are about your car, your audio, and your music makes me tip my hat to you. Keep doing what you do, and please if you ever feel like coming yo NJ, you always have a place to visit.


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## Buzzman

Coppertone said:


> I have to say that I am soo glad to see someone with an older although great car doing things with it. Most the people whom I deal with won't keep a car past 3 years and are continually trading their in. I've always been a fan of taking my older cars and improving upon the areas that I feel are lacking. In your case, your car as a whole is just beautiful. I don't have the ear and musical taste that most sq guys have, but I like what I like. Seeing and hearing how passionate you are about your car, your audio, and your music makes me tip my hat to you. Keep doing what you do, and please if you ever feel like coming yo NJ, you always have a place to visit.


Thank you sir for your VERY kind words. For me, it all starts with a great love of music, and my reference is my experience as a musician, time in recording studios, hearing great recordings reproduced on the finest of home audio systems, and listening to live music in the greatest concert venues. I wanted to create for the listener that sense of "being there" with the performers in the recording and I am very pleased with the results. If you like being 3rd row center at Carnegie Hall, you will like listening to music in my car. I also appreciate your invitation. I grew up in Brooklyn, and lived in Manhattan and Guttenberg, NJ, so that area is home to me. The next time I am back that way, I will drop you a note.


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## ben54b

Hey Buzzman I found your build the other day and have not been able to stop reading. The equipment is out of this world and given me new brands to investigate (phass is not easily accessible in Australia to the best of my knowledge ) the most impressive thing for me is your desire to try new things in the chase for minuscule improvements. So many people give up due to the law of diminishing return. 
Thank you for the very informative read. Ben


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## Buzzman

ben54b said:


> Hey Buzzman I found your build the other day and have not been able to stop reading. The equipment is out of this world and given me new brands to investigate (phass is not easily accessible in Australia to the best of my knowledge ) the most impressive thing for me is your desire to try new things in the chase for minuscule improvements. So many people give up due to the law of diminishing return.
> Thank you for the very informative read. Ben


Hi Ben, thanks for reading the thread. The improvements I have experienced over the years of experimenting with the system in my car have been more than miniscule. When they are as audible as these have been, my efforts are validated. Call it the curse of the audiophile. Phass does not have a presence in Australia, but if you ever want to explore the product line send me a PM and I am happy to discuss my experience.


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## ben54b

Sorry Buzzman I meant incremental or to move forward in an evolutionary manner. Minuscule was definitely the wrong word. No offence meant. 
On a side note I have spent my spare time today learning about wave guides and how to build them. Fascinating stuff, this is why i love builds like yours, always something to learn. Ben


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## Huckleberry Sound

Very Nice!


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## Buzzman

ben54b said:


> Sorry Buzzman I meant incremental or to move forward in an evolutionary manner. Minuscule was definitely the wrong word. No offence meant.
> On a side note I have spent my spare time today learning about wave guides and how to build them. Fascinating stuff, this is why i love builds like yours, always something to learn. Ben


Ben, no offense taken with your choice of words at all. I don't get bent out of shape over stuff like that.  I know well the law of diminishing returns, and that's a reality as we chase sonic bliss. I just wanted to make clear that the improvements I have experienced with my most recent changes were definitely not miniscule. But, I wish I knew 6 years ago what I know now, LOL. Geez, the money I could have saved. 

If you are interested in waveguides, Patrick Bateman has a few threads on this site that provide very helpful information. I recommend you search them out.



Huckleberry Sound said:


> Very Nice!


Thanks!


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## estione

Still one of my favorite builds shame i'll never get to hear it


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## Buzzman

estione said:


> Still one of my favorite builds shame i'll never get to hear it


We have amazing weather here in Scottsdale between October and May, much better than you get in the UK.  So, come on over. I promise to be a great host.  And, thanks for your kind words.


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## Patrick Bateman

Notloudenuf said:


> This is amazing.
> How did he make the waveguides? 3D printer?


My mouth is just agape at the quality, and how easy it is to make these.

From what I can gather, he's simply heating up sheets of PVC with a heat gun, then pressing a round dowel into the PVC

Said he made one in about ten minutes!

Incredible.

It would take me a week to even model this in 3D

His construction technique is detailed over at Parts Express


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## so cal eddie

There are only a handful of cars on this forum that I would like to listen to, and this is definitely one of them.


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## estione

Patrick Bateman said:


> His construction technique is detailed over at Parts Express


Got a link for this? would love to see this


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## quickaudi07

Holy ****, how did i miss this.... great job on the install, and seen you are selling your amps now... wish you luck with that....


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## Buzzman

Thanks! I'm selling the amps as I will be upgrading to the RE2.


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## Coppertone

^^^. My gosh, I now know who I want to be my adopted fadder lol......


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## quickaudi07

Buzzman said:


> Thanks! I'm selling the amps as I will be upgrading to the RE2.


Are u selling your TRU amps as well?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

quickaudi07 said:


> Are u selling your TRU amps as well?
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


stop mario lol.


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## quickaudi07

Nick u want them don't you!?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Buzzman

quickaudi07 said:


> Are u selling your TRU amps as well?
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


No, it will continue to power my sub.


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## TRD07

Can you post a close up of the Head unit install?


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## Buzzman

TRD07 said:


> Can you post a close up of the Head unit install?


Here you go:

*Before:*



*After:*


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## Coppertone

Darn, that still looks sweet as ever and I'm sure it sounds 10x as good as it looks.


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## TRD07

Thanks


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## Buzzman

Coppertone said:


> Darn, that still looks sweet as ever and I'm sure it sounds 10x as good as it looks.


Thanks! I might be biased, but I agree with your statement.


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## SkizeR

Buzzman said:


> Thanks! I might be biased, but I agree with your statement.


i can confirm


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## Coppertone

Plus I love the fact that you've not let the age of the car distract you from achieving sonic nirvana.


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## bertholomey

I'm looking forward (hopefully) to getting a thorough demo this weekend!


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## Buzzman

Coppertone said:


> Plus I love the fact that you've not let the age of the car distract you from achieving sonic nirvana.


Thanks. This car is built like a vault and provided a great platform for me to accomplish my sonic goals. There is so much that can’t be seen which contributes to the sonic results I have been able to achieve. I really do feel that I have an audiophile listening room on wheels. I keep it very well maintained and don’t want to start over with another vehicle unless absolutely necessary. 



bertholomey said:


> I'm looking forward (hopefully) to getting a thorough demo this weekend!


Jason, unless some unknown gremlins rear their ugly head, I am looking forward to an extended listening session with you. A lot has changed since the last time you heard the car about 7 years ago. I am really looking forward to catching up with you and hearing your assessment of this iteration of Da Benz.


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## Buzzman

SkizeR said:


> i can confirm


:thumbsup: Thanks, Nick. When do you plan to be back out this way?


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## Stookie

Don - Please could you let us know what the current X-over points are on the system are ? 

Also I see at one stage you had the sub, 4in and tweet set up - can you remember the X-over points used then ?

(As per previous correspondence) Im strongly considering the Phass option and I also have vehicle options for it to go into. Current thoughts are the X5 and Id be limited to stock locations hence interest in the 4in setup and also how you have your current set up with an 8's in the doors (x5 will have them underseat so looking to Xover under 200hz)


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