# New 10' SQ Subs...Need Opinions



## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

I have narrowed it down to the Digital Designs 1510, the Image Dynamics IDQ, and the Fi Q. I am also open to any other opinions. I will be spending only $300 or less on each sub. Also, I will be purchasing a new amp to go with the subs so as of right now the only factors I am concerned about are overall build quality and of course sound quality. I like a little "boom" with my music but I do not want to sacrifice sound quality since I mostly listen to rock music. I would love any opinions from anyone who has had these subs before or anything from these manufacturers. Also, if you have any other opinions please let me know.


Also, if you vote "other" would you please elaborate on which sub you prefer? Thank You


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## radarcontact (Oct 28, 2010)

I have an IDQ12 and think its a great sub. I had, in my possession, a Boston G3, and I have to say, the build quality looked phenomenal; the. IDQ looked downright cheap sitting next to it. If you go no-warranty, you could prob pick one up for about $100, then put the other $200 into a better quality amp or a night out at the strip club! 


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

radarcontact said:


> I have an IDQ12 and think its a great sub. I had, in my possession, a Boston G3, and I have to say, the build quality looked phenomenal; the. IDQ looked downright cheap sitting next to it. If you go no-warranty, you could prob pick one up for about $100, then put the other $200 into a better quality amp or a night out at the strip club!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I will be buying both subs new. The reason I only want to spend $300 or less is so I can afford a very good amp. Why did the IDQ look cheap? I always thought they were good looking subs...and from what I have heard...have great build quality.


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## ezutel (Apr 17, 2009)

the basket of IDQ looks like cheap plastic, but is a really good sounding sub


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

ezutel said:


> the basket of IDQ looks like cheap plastic, but is a really good sounding sub


Most people seem to like the sound. It definitely made my list.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

Does anyone else have any opinions? I could really use some help deciding. Thanks


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## seagrasser (Feb 6, 2007)

There are a few SQ oriented 10's around

Vifa NE265W-04 seems promising (have the mw26 and love it)

Peerless 830452 10" XLS Subwoofer

Dayton Audio RSS265HO-4 10"

TC Sounds Epic 10"

Seas L26ROY 10" (Really want to see someone use this one)


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## raamaudio (May 4, 2005)

The IDQ is not plastic in the direct sense, it is better and for a reason.

I have sold and used a bunch of ID, IDQ, IDmax, Arc 10, etc subs and loved them all. I have four 15" ID subs in my living room even

I have the new Arc Black Series 10 here but have not heard it yet, getting the 12 for the new project vehicle, I think I am going to like them quite well. A bit out of the price range, for the budget you have the IDQ would probably be my pick.

BUT, I will admit, I seldom listen to anything but Arc, ID and Hybrid, not out where I live especially.

Rick


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## Jonny Hotnuts (Mar 15, 2011)

I say spend 80$ more and get the Morel Ultimo SC. 

~JH


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## radarcontact (Oct 28, 2010)

radarcontact said:


> I have an IDQ12 and think its a great sub. I had, in my possession, a Boston G3, and I have to say, the build quality looked phenomenal; the. IDQ looked downright cheap sitting next to it. If you go no-warranty, you could prob pick one up for about $100, then put the other $200 into a better quality amp or a night out at the strip club!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Never thought I'd be quoting myself...lol, but for clarity:

I never said anything about "plastic". And like I said, the IDQ is in my car right now, I love it -- great sub. It should def be on your short list! But go to BA website and look at the G3; the sub is just built ultra nice. It even has a very unique fusing system that acts as a jumper to either make the sub's coils run in parallel or series. It was one of the hardest decisions I have had to make in audio component choices. I had them both in front of me, I owned them both brand new. I could only install one. I chose the IDQ based on reviews and reputation, but if I were ignorant to all of that, I would definitely have chosen the BA based on looks alone.


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## radarcontact (Oct 28, 2010)

P.s.
I was trying to say that you can get one from an unauthorized dealer, NIB, for about $100. Not a used one. Didn't know if I was clear enough on that.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

Some food for thought..


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...dden-treasure-imo-mini-comparison-inside.html


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

seagrasser said:


> There are a few SQ oriented 10's around
> 
> Vifa NE265W-04 seems promising (have the mw26 and love it)
> 
> ...


Do you have any idea what the prices are on some of these? The only brand that I am even slightly familiar with is TC Sounds. What is the story on the others?


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

raamaudio said:


> The IDQ is not plastic in the direct sense, it is better and for a reason.
> 
> I have sold and used a bunch of ID, IDQ, IDmax, Arc 10, etc subs and loved them all. I have four 15" ID subs in my living room even
> 
> ...


Everyone here seems to like the IDQ the best. Have you had any experience with the other brands?


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

Jonny Hotnuts said:


> I say spend 80$ more and get the Morel Ultimo SC.
> 
> ~JH


Where did you find the Morel for that price? Everywhere I have looked it has been around $500+. That one has always been a possibility for me.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

radarcontact said:


> Never thought I'd be quoting myself...lol, but for clarity:
> 
> I never said anything about "plastic". And like I said, the IDQ is in my car right now, I love it -- great sub. It should def be on your short list! But go to BA website and look at the G3; the sub is just built ultra nice. It even has a very unique fusing system that acts as a jumper to either make the sub's coils run in parallel or series. It was one of the hardest decisions I have had to make in audio component choices. I had them both in front of me, I owned them both brand new. I could only install one. I chose the IDQ based on reviews and reputation, but if I were ignorant to all of that, I would definitely have chosen the BA based on looks alone.
> 
> ...


I have a friend that has a couple G5's in his truck. Maybe it is just his setup but I was not all that crazy about them. Maybe the G3's are different.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

radarcontact said:


> P.s.
> I was trying to say that you can get one from an unauthorized dealer, NIB, for about $100. Not a used one. Didn't know if I was clear enough on that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Oh I gotcha. I would really prefer to stick with authorized as well. I know some people who have bought from unauthorized dealers and they ended up not even being the right product. They were not made by the manufacturer but instead were knockoffs being sold as the real thing.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

ZAKOH said:


> Some food for thought..
> 
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...dden-treasure-imo-mini-comparison-inside.html


I hadn't even really considered JBL. I will take a look.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

Darko9989 said:


> I hadn't even really considered JBL. I will take a look.


I didn't post it only because of JBL. It also has a review of the IDQ, you're looking at, and Peerless XXLS, another fine SQ sub.

I think a lot of SQ subs do not have as radical differences in their sound or SQ-ness as some reviews suggest. Focus first on getting the sub that matches best your box and amplifier type, and your budget.


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## Jonny Hotnuts (Mar 15, 2011)

> Where did you find the Morel for that price? Everywhere I have looked it has been around $500+. That one has always been a possibility for me.


WoofersEtc.com - Ultimo SC 104 - Morel 10" 4 Ohm SC series Subwoofer

~JH


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

ZAKOH said:


> I didn't post it only because of JBL. It also has a review of the IDQ, you're looking at, and Peerless XXLS, another fine SQ sub.
> 
> I think a lot of SQ subs do not have as radical differences in their sound or SQ-ness as some reviews suggest. Focus first on getting the sub that matches best your box and amplifier type, and your budget.


Thanks. I took a look at the thread. It sounds like for my tastes out of the ones listed on that page that the IDQ would be the one for me. Im still trying to weigh my options. It doesnt seem like very many people have had a lot of experience with the Fi Q or the 1510 since I have not heard many replies about them.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

Jonny Hotnuts said:


> WoofersEtc.com - Ultimo SC 104 - Morel 10" 4 Ohm SC series Subwoofer
> 
> ~JH


Do you know if woofersetc is an authorized dealer for Morel? I know they have a bad rep with brands like Focal for selling knockoffs.


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## radarcontact (Oct 28, 2010)

Not familiar with the Boston Acoustics G5. Anyway, not trying to push the G3, I just know it doesn't get a lot of exposure cause BA is one of those companies that let there products sell themselves in a way, you either know them or you don't, sorta like Adcom, they are the same way. Here are the specs in case you want to throw it in a virtual box: http://www.bostonacoustics.com/PDFs/manuals/G3_Man.pdf and a Link to the product page: http://www.bostonacoustics.com/G312-P573.aspx

If Image Dynamics were still under Eric Stevens, I might go with the IDQ again. Since its not, I just don't know. Probably wouldn't, just out of principle.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

radarcontact said:


> Not familiar with the Boston Acoustics G5. Anyway, not trying to push the G3, I just know it doesn't get a lot of exposure cause BA is one of those companies that let there products sell themselves in a way, you either know them or you don't, sorta like Adcom, they are the same way. Here are the specs in case you want to throw it in a virtual box: http://www.bostonacoustics.com/PDFs/manuals/G3_Man.pdf and a Link to the product page: Server error
> 
> If Image Dynamics were still under Eric Stevens, I might go with the IDQ again. Since its not, I just don't know. Probably wouldn't, just out of principle.
> 
> ...


Thanks for going through the trouble of posting those specs...much appreciated. I will take a look at the G3. And I know what you mean about Eric...he did seem pretty confident that ID would still be great even after he left...or so he said when he confirmed the rumors.


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## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

seagrasser said:


> Seas L26ROY 10" (Really want to see someone use this one)


I might be trying one of these soon as a replacement for my ID10

[email protected]


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I might be trying one of these soon as a replacement for my ID10
> 
> [email protected]


What is the deal with Seas? I have not heard much about them.


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## radarcontact (Oct 28, 2010)

Darko9989 said:


> Thanks for going through the trouble of posting those specs...much appreciated. I will take a look at the G3.


Sorry, I'm thinking 12" since that's what I have. Here's the 10" info: 

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/PDFs/manuals/G3_Man.pdf

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/G310-P566.aspx


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## sqs_please (May 20, 2011)

i'm assuming sealed eclosure
my suggestions: IDQ v3, ID10 v3, DLS RW10i.


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

I've seen many ppl on the forum go with the idq and dayton ho. According to ppl on the board the dayton ho likes to be in a ported enclosure if i remember correctly.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

sqs_please said:


> i'm assuming sealed eclosure
> my suggestions: IDQ v3, ID10 v3, DLS RW10i.


Yes, I forgot to mention that earlier. It will be in a sealed enclosure. Have you ever heard the DLS personally?


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

adrenalinejunkie said:


> I've seen many ppl on the forum go with the idq and dayton ho. According to ppl on the board the dayton ho likes to be in a ported enclosure if i remember correctly.


Why exactly does the Dayton like to be in a ported enclosure? I will be using a sealed enclosure for this setup.


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## cyberdraven (Oct 28, 2009)

seagrasser said:


> There are a few SQ oriented 10's around
> 
> Vifa NE265W-04 seems promising (have the mw26 and love it)
> 
> ...


Im using Seas L26Roy and love them to bits! Im using Seas Lotus on fronts and decided to try the Leroy and never been disappointed ever since. These persuade me to try leroy:

1. Darn musical and once you get the proper midbass/sub handshake, it literaly disappear. bearing the trademark of seas drivers to be transparent. I coined musical for its ability to reproduce different notes not just a boom boom.
2. Cheap. at less than $300, i couldnt find much choices. Mind you that the L26roy is used by linkwitz in its Pluto loudspeaker project.
3. Easy to drive. I only have 180 zapco watts to spare. its rated 250rms but its quite efficient and easy to drive.

In contrast to the ever popular IDQ subs, the only drawback i could think off is that it needs a bigger box, between 0.6 to 0.8.


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

+1 on the DLS 
Or if u can swing it, the arc blacks


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

Darko9989 said:


> Why exactly does the Dayton like to be in a ported enclosure? I will be using a sealed enclosure for this setup.



I'm not sure, it's just what i've seen people go with on the forum.


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## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2011)

cyberdraven said:


> Im using Seas L26Roy and love them to bits! Im using Seas Lotus on fronts and decided to try the Leroy and never been disappointed ever since. These persuade me to try leroy:
> 
> 1. Darn musical and once you get the proper midbass/sub handshake, it literaly disappear. bearing the trademark of seas drivers to be transparent. I coined musical for its ability to reproduce different notes not just a boom boom.
> 2. Cheap. at less than $300, i couldnt find much choices. Mind you that the L26roy is used by linkwitz in its Pluto loudspeaker project.
> ...


I have been eyeing up this sub for a while but couldn't find much info on it! What size enclosure are you using. I was going to try one with 340 watts in about .75ft3 I think on paper it looks a nice sub but can't find much in the way of reviews other than home hifi reviews?

[email protected]


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

cyberdraven said:


> Im using Seas L26Roy and love them to bits! Im using Seas Lotus on fronts and decided to try the Leroy and never been disappointed ever since. These persuade me to try leroy:
> 
> 1. Darn musical and once you get the proper midbass/sub handshake, it literaly disappear. bearing the trademark of seas drivers to be transparent. I coined musical for its ability to reproduce different notes not just a boom boom.
> 2. Cheap. at less than $300, i couldnt find much choices. Mind you that the L26roy is used by linkwitz in its Pluto loudspeaker project.
> ...



Enclosure size is not really a factor. I can always build a bigger one to fit the subs. Where would be a good place online to buy the Seas? I have not heard much about them so I don't really have a clue. More and more people on here seem to like them though.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

south east customz said:


> +1 on the DLS
> Or if u can swing it, the arc blacks


The DLS definitely looks nice. Do you know where I can buy them online? Do they sell to the US? I didn't even see an option to select US on their website.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I think on paper it looks a nice sub but can't find much in the way of reviews other than home hifi reviews?
> 
> [email protected]


I would also like an answer to this.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

OK guys and gals.

Remember the enclosure will dictate the end result of how it sounds. Sealed enclosures tend to yield a response that meshes well with the cabin gain couple with the sealed enclosures roll off. A lot of people "like" this because the lower bass does not overwhelm the upper bass frequencies. A properly designed ported enclosure will offer more "SQ" than a sealed enclosure because as you turn it up, to get more output, the cone movement near tuning in the ported enclosure will be less than in the sealed. Use a program like WinISD to model the same woofer in the two types of enclosures under the power you have and compare cone excursion. The less excursion the less distortion you generally have as well as linearity issues etc... Read Bikinpunks klippel reviews as well as CVjoint's install and reviews on speaker comparisons. Granted human perception of distortion in those low 2 octaves is fairly low.

Also if you want to look at Arc, please remember in a ot of cases they are simply rebranded speakers that one could buy and save in some cases a lot of money. Again simply look as Bikinpunks klippel reviews to see some of those discussions. Also this happens a lot. Arc is not the only company that does this. 

In a car if you are competing where everything needs to be well thought out no matter SQ or SPL, then spending lotso cash on a sub may be necessary. But for most people, 98% I would bet, can get by with whatever they can get their hands on. It's a vehicle so you have the magic of cabin gain. the subs basically functin as a pressurization device. Listen to subs by themselves. If you have the oppurtunity listen to several (brands enclosures etc) by themselves no other speakers allowed. You will find that they will all pretty much sound the same. Before I get yelled at, there will be differences in levels at certain frequencies. THAT will be caused more by enclosure and the specific vehicle's acoustics than by sub. You great sound will be more of a function of the midbass to sub integration. And THAT is where a lot of cars lack. Either by lack of planning or again, the specific vehicle's acoustics. If you all look in this forum you will find many people discussing midbass suck outs that they are fighting. 

Again, not trying to piss in anybody's punch bowl. But way to much time and money is spent/wasted on specifically subs. brands size etc. Better results would be had worrying about enclosures and midbass drivers and implementation.

Hopefully this may make you reconsider a bad decision. Save you some money and give you the chance of attaining sonic nirvana easier.


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## Salad Fingers (Jun 14, 2009)

Darko9989 said:


> Do you know if woofersetc is an authorized dealer for Morel?


No, they certainly are not.


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## seagrasser (Feb 6, 2007)

cyberdraven said:


> Im using Seas L26Roy and love them to bits! Im using Seas Lotus on fronts and decided to try the Leroy and never been disappointed ever since. These persuade me to try leroy:
> 
> 1. Darn musical and once you get the proper midbass/sub handshake, it literaly disappear. bearing the trademark of seas drivers to be transparent. I coined musical for its ability to reproduce different notes not just a boom boom.
> 2. Cheap. at less than $300, i couldnt find much choices. Mind you that the L26roy is used by linkwitz in its Pluto loudspeaker project.
> ...


Look here for more info on this sub. Very :2thumbsup:


Seas L26ROY 10" Subwoofer - D1001-04 - 4 ohm: Madisound Speaker Store

Seas L26ROY subwoofer FINISHED PICS - diyAudio

Seas L26 ROY - YouTube

HTGuide Forum - Seas L26ROY


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

Salad Fingers said:


> No, they certainly are not.


Didn't think so. I wont buy a product of that caliber from an unauthorized dealer


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## Jersey Strong (Oct 16, 2010)

Save up and get below. Just saying..... also stay away from Woofersetc... the link is just a reference

WoofersEtc.com - 10" Vanadium - Rainbow Vanadium 10" Subwoofer


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

seagrasser said:


> Look here for more info on this sub. Very :2thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Seas L26ROY 10" Subwoofer - D1001-04 - 4 ohm: Madisound Speaker Store
> ...


Thank You very much for the links. Much appreciated!


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

Jersey Strong said:


> Save up and get below. Just saying..... also stay away from Woofersetc... the link is just a reference
> 
> WoofersEtc.com - 10" Vanadium - Rainbow Vanadium 10" Subwoofer


I love the rainbows but they are just so expensive. I will be buying two 10' woofers and I cannot justify spending $1000+ on just the woofers right now. I am really hoping to stay below $600 as I need a new amp as well. 

Also, I have heard many mixed reviews about woofersetc. From what I can gather they seem to be horrible with companies that they are not authorized to sell (Focal, Morel, Hertz, etc...) but they seem to be fairly good with the companies they are authorized with ( Image Dynamics, CDT, etc...)


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## Phew13 (Nov 2, 2011)

being an owner of 2 IDq 12" v2's I think it is one of the best SQ subs available for the price


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## Jersey Strong (Oct 16, 2010)

Darko9989 said:


> I love the rainbows but they are just so expensive. I will be buying two 10' woofers and I cannot justify spending $1000+ on just the woofers right now. I am really hoping to stay below $600 as I need a new amp as well.
> 
> Also, I have heard many mixed reviews about woofersetc. From what I can gather they seem to be horrible with companies that they are not authorized to sell (Focal, Morel, Hertz, etc...) but they seem to be fairly good with the companies they are authorized with ( Image Dynamics, CDT, etc...)


I feel you man.....I lucked out and got a great deal on mine.....but they are seriously amazing. I have them in a sealed box 1cu. with polyfill......they kick some major ass.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

Phew13 said:


> being an owner of 2 IDq 12" v2's I think it is one of the best SQ subs available for the price


That seems to be what I am leaning towards. In my price range it seems hard to beat.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

Jersey Strong said:


> I feel you man.....I lucked out and got a great deal on mine.....but they are seriously amazing. I have them in a sealed box 1cu. with polyfill......they kick some major ass.


Did you buy yours new or used?


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

No love for the Digital Designs? I have not heard anyone comment of them yet. I spoke with Kyle at DD and he guaranteed he could get me the managers price if I buy direct. That puts them at around $200 per sub...almost a full $100 cheaper. The deal is one of the things drawing me to these subs. Also, don't Digital Designs have a great reputation in the sub world?


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## Jersey Strong (Oct 16, 2010)

I got them used from DON aka 6spdcoupe in this forum. He is the Rainbow man. He is the dealer with the best prices and fully authorized. My whole car has Rainbow gear top to bottom and I love it. If you are serious, he will hook you up like no other. ID and all is great, but once you take a listen to these things, you will **** yourself for the most part. And I understand the money factorI had to jump the same hurdle, and I am very happy I did. I spent a little over what was needed but damn it was so worth it.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

Jersey Strong said:


> I got them used from DON aka 6spdcoupe in this forum. He is the Rainbow man. He is the dealer with the best prices and fully authorized. My whole car has Rainbow gear top to bottom and I love it. If you are serious, he will hook you up like no other. ID and all is great, but once you take a listen to these things, you will **** yourself for the most part. And I understand the money factorI had to jump the same hurdle, and I am very happy I did. I spent a little over what was needed but damn it was so worth it.


I will see if I can get ahold of him and see what he can do


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## Jersey Strong (Oct 16, 2010)

Give it a shot man you just never know. PM him, he gets back fast. Just curious would you pay $650 for two of those used?


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

Jersey Strong said:


> Give it a shot man you just never know. PM him, he gets back fast. Just curious would you pay $650 for two of those used?


Probably not at this time


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## sqs_please (May 20, 2011)

Darko9989 said:


> Yes, I forgot to mention that earlier. It will be in a sealed enclosure. Have you ever heard the DLS personally?


yes i've tried all 3. imo the RWi sounded the best in the eclosure that i used. 
~.7cu sealed. also it blended well with the rest of my system(check sig). now have the DLS Nordica 10s(>$300) and by far the best of them all.

saw someone selling DLS stuff on ebay, tho i'm not sure if they are truly an internet dealer for DLS. got mine from a dealer here in HI.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm running an IDQ10v3 currently that I like. However it depends on what you will be listening to. It's fantastic for rock and SQ type music, but definitely lacks output for hip hop stuff. It can just sound a bit strained in my system in those situations. However it could be remedied by running two of them or a 12" version (what I may do in the future). If you have the space I would definitely go with a 12, or even 2 of them. I built a fiberglass box that took way too long for me to readily swap this IDQ10 out though.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

ecbmxer said:


> I'm running an IDQ10v3 currently that I like. However it depends on what you will be listening to. It's fantastic for rock and SQ type music, but definitely lacks output for hip hop stuff. It can just sound a bit strained in my system in those situations. However it could be remedied by running two of them or a 12" version (what I may do in the future). If you have the space I would definitely go with a 12, or even 2 of them. I built a fiberglass box that took way too long for me to readily swap this IDQ10 out though.


That actually sounds perfect. I literally never listen to hip hop or rap anymore. 99% of my music is rock so that is what my new system will be catered to.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

ecbmxer said:


> I'm running an IDQ10v3 currently that I like. However it depends on what you will be listening to. It's fantastic for rock and SQ type music, but definitely lacks output for hip hop stuff. It can just sound a bit strained in my system in those situations. However it could be remedied by running two of them or a 12" version (what I may do in the future). If you have the space I would definitely go with a 12, or even 2 of them. I built a fiberglass box that took way too long for me to readily swap this IDQ10 out though.


Sealed/Ported?


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

I would really appreciate it if everyone who voted "other" on the poll would please elaborate on what they consider a better SQ sub. Thanks


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

What about that Fi X 10" in the classifieds?


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

chithead said:


> What about that Fi X 10" in the classifieds?


Aren't they just selling one of them? I would like to have 2 for my next setup.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Mine is sealed in 0.65ft3. If you build a box yourself, I would try to get closer to 0.75-0.9 if I were you. The bottom end is just a bit lacking in my setup and I had to boost a bit in the 25-30Hz region.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

As an investment, For actual engineering to back "SQ" claims, I would go with a couple of JBL 10" WGTi. They are monsters. Great power handling, Differential drive motors. Will be amazing sealed ported IB. You can cook the coils but the motor really won't let you overdrive them.

Seconded by the Acoustic Elegance TD10. High efficiency, ultra low distortion and power compression. Again, like the JBL, real engineering to back up why this is an SQ woofer. 


As a cost effective alternitive the Dayton RS series HO 10. Yes it loves small ported. But you can run small sealed. Low end output will fall of as in ANY small sealed enclosure. Also again, REAL engineering to back up the claims.

What I mean by real engineering is that things have been designed and added and third party tests have been done that back up the data given. these are not a generic overhung/underhung designs that have an "elite" brand car audio sticker slapped on it with a high price.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

what does thier "differential drive" mean?


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

minbari said:


> what does thier "differential drive" mean?


I could try to explain it but here is the link.


http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?docid=1253&doctype=3

It's actually very interesting, it explains the monster depth of the speakers and why you can't overdrive them. I wish I had bought the 15. I love my TC but I have got to listen to two systems with the WGTi. Superior.

Is it while driving? Prolly not.

That's what everybody forgets. It's just a sub in an enclosure in an often multi-leaky enclosure (vehicle) that has all sorts of low end noise that will mask all sorts of sub issues all while over-enhancing the low end.

Personally, I love them all. Just now I wouldn't spend big money on subs unless I wanted to run kilowatts of power into them. Better ways to spend MY audio dollar. Especially when bass is easy and cheap in a car.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I actually found that after i asked about it, lol. it is a very interesting idea for sure. 

the only downside to that design that I can see is that at very high power levels when excursion is high. one of the voice coils pushes and one voice coil pulls, essentially. BUT! they also said that when the cone is pushed out, the "pull" coil acts as a shorting coil and pulls the cone back in. although this has the effect of NEVER being able to mechanically hurt the sub, it also makes it waste power.(since one coil is pushing the cone out and one coil is pulling it in now) it wastes more power at the highest levels of power, but to some lesser degree it wastes power at all levels of output.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

minbari said:


> I actually found that after i asked about it, lol. it is a very interesting idea for sure.
> 
> the only downside to that design that I can see is that at very high power levels when excursion is high. one of the voice coils pushes and one voice coil pulls, essentially. BUT! they also said that when the cone is pushed out, the "pull" coil acts as a shorting coil and pulls the cone back in. although this has the effect of NEVER being able to mechanically hurt the sub, it also makes it waste power.(since one coil is pushing the cone out and one coil is pulling it in now) it wastes more power at the highest levels of power, but to some lesser degree it wastes power at all levels of output.


And yet a very efficient sub in the bass frequencies. When you consider how efficent mechanically a sub is, I am not concerned. They are all terrible!


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

very efficient on paper 1w/1m at those power levels you essentially have two subs in one, lol. they're marking stuff even says so. but at 1w, there is no excursion, so my concerns are....not a concern, lol. not until you start to make the cone move the coils out of thier "home" magnetic field and into the other coil's field.

I am, of course, complettely talking out of my ass here, lol. I dont have anything to prove what i am saying, but it does seem to fit how it works, lol.


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## Darko9989 (Oct 27, 2011)

cubdenno said:


> As an investment, For actual engineering to back "SQ" claims, I would go with a couple of JBL 10" WGTi. They are monsters. Great power handling, Differential drive motors. Will be amazing sealed ported IB. You can cook the coils but the motor really won't let you overdrive them.
> 
> Seconded by the Acoustic Elegance TD10. High efficiency, ultra low distortion and power compression. Again, like the JBL, real engineering to back up why this is an SQ woofer.
> 
> ...


I have never had too much luck with JBL. In my experience they seem to fall short of many other manufacturers. Once again this is just my experience.


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## Oscar (Jun 20, 2010)

JBL W10GTi. 




Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Klippel this, Dumax that...those two machines are helpful in determining the causes of distortion. The large signal 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion graph I posted indicaes that this is STILL one of the lowest-distortion car-audio subwoofers available, if not the one with the LEAST distortion.





Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Hey Guys,
> Sorry I forgot about this thread. I've spent Christmas trying to recover from a big hard drive crash and in rescuing a bunch of files, I came across an old folder of documentation from theoriginal development of GTi Subs. Later in January, I'll talk to Jerry, the engineer who designed these subs about this Klippel thing. I recall he remarked about the difference in results from measuring with Klippel and other measurement methods. I'm sure he has a file of stuff somewhere.
> 
> In the mean time, here's a distortion plot of the driver, measured in half-space in the recommended sealed box mounted in the floor of one of the anechoic chambers. Note that the measurement was made at 35V. It's worth noting that coil out of the gap conditions typically produce a rise in odd-order distortion. However, coil out of the gap in the W15 is a little different. Because the coils are offst toward the center of the former, it's an asymetrical condition, which raises 2nd order distortion. Even the second order distortion is quite a bit lower than many conventional designs. In any case, we made similar measurements for other speakers which were popular at the time, and I'll see if I can dig those up soon.
> ...


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## CPPTG (Feb 22, 2011)

Briefly read over this thread. If you are interested in purely SQ, I would take a look at Blues. Both their single drivers and their ISO kits provide great SQ. I absolutely love mine. But, I always recommend seeing if you can get a demo on anything before you make a purchase. I feel in a lot of cases its personal preference. Good luck in your search.


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## eggyhustles (Sep 18, 2008)

Gcon 
GCON Series Sub Woofer


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