# Best SQ sub? Price no option whats best SQ sub



## Cypher07 (Sep 15, 2007)

best one = ?


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## bhg41088 (Nov 5, 2006)

Don't be afraid to "exceed the limits."


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## Cypher07 (Sep 15, 2007)

HAHAHA yeah right


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## armed (Mar 13, 2008)

idmax?


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

my vote goes to the critical mass ul12 which is in the fs section btw


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## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

I'm going with Funky Pups myself


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## POLKAT (Jan 10, 2007)

Well....

With this topic you will either get ignored, answered sarcastically, berated, or you could possibly get the long answer which I will try to paraphrase:

There is no best SQ sub. Too many variables. Too many individual preferences. Trial and error is your only option really. Read reviews posted on here and other places, but in the end....it's what you think sounds good. 

Don't stress out too much about subwoofers. They cover a minuscule amount of the total hearing spectrum. Spend your time worrying about the other ~80hz-20khz.


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

http://www.caraudiomag.com/0607_cae_critical_mass_test_report/index.html
critical mass baby its the future^ 
hmm how can i say this...i think there is a misconception with sound quality and accuracy. speakers/subwoofers are designed to reproduce music as accurate as possible. is there different kinds of bass? so the only difference is the technology used which is what matters.


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## Cypher07 (Sep 15, 2007)

I was just trying to strike up a conversation ie opinions


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## Robdoggz (Sep 16, 2007)

The best cant be beat:









Or Hyper pups i hear they are hard to beat as well.


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## drake78 (May 27, 2007)

This is one of those not so inviting question to ask on diyma.  Just remember you paying for mainly 20 hz-80 hz and not much information is subtle down low.  If you into the exotic subs. Most of them are discussed already. You can use the search function. CA.com should have more boner forums about subs.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

best sq sub ive ever owned?


DIYMA R12.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

i'd have to say either the funky pups or my sub.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Here are some I would look at but the best is up to you. There is no best there is only the best to you.

Idmax
DIYMA 12
SI MAG
JL W6
CSS
CM UL12
IDQ
Rainbow Vandium
JBL WGti
Boston G5
Hertz HX and ML

and 

List could go on and on


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

Pyramid Super blue


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Morel Supremo and Dynaudio ESOTAR are both extremely nice

Christian


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Best one I've ever heard...

a/d/s/ 310px


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

Mooble said:


> Best one I've ever heard...
> 
> a/d/s/ 310px


that thing looks sweet! i like!


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

tcguy85 said:


> that thing looks sweet! i like!


Sadly discontinued many years ago.


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## qtipextra (Aug 7, 2008)

I would have to say RE SE subs are very good SQ subs.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Fi was supposed to develop a pure SQ lowish-power sub. I'm sure Scott would custom make you one to any specs you want, but it would cost you. I'd be very interested to see what they could do with a balls-out pure SQ sub. I'd bet it would be pretty damned impressive.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

POLKAT said:


> Well....
> 
> With this topic you will either get ignored, answered sarcastically, berated, or you could possibly get the long answer which I will try to paraphrase:
> 
> There is no best SQ sub. Too many variables. Too many individual preferences. Trial and error is your only option really. Read reviews posted on here and other places, but in the end....it's what you think sounds good.


Not really. Assuming "best SQ sub" means "sub that's most faithful to the original source material," you want to look for a motor that at the very least incorporates shorting (Faraday) rings and possibly some sort of linear-BL topology such as XBL^2, some form of split coil design, or LMT/LMS. Additionally, you want as low an Le/Re ratio as possible.

As for specific examples to add to the list, I don't have much to add to Autiophile's list. Just some of TC Sounds' better designs (LMT/LMS, TC2+/TC1k) and, potentially, the Acoupower stuff. Maybe B&C's 21SW150, which is one driver I'd love to try but don't want to pay for. Otherwise, he hit all of the current high points. 

Very few car-fi branded subs, frankly, are worth a damn. Certainly, they're not worth anything near what's asked for them. There are exceptions such as the JBL GTi line, but they are just that: rare exceptions.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

60ndown said:


> best sq sub ive ever owned?
> 
> 
> DIYMA R12.


I'm with Luke on this one. I'd put my system up for grabs if you could find another sub *INSTALLED AND TUNED CORRECTLY JUDGING BY SQ ALONE WITH A METER* that is better than the DIYMA R12 at any price range. I don't care about more output, more excursion, etc...... Find me a better sub that will MEASURE better in car than the DIYMA. *putting flame suit on now*


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> Not really. Assuming "best SQ sub" means "sub that's most faithful to the original source material," you want to look for a motor that at the very least incorporates shorting (Faraday) rings and possibly some sort of linear-BL topology such as XBL^2, some form of split coil design, or LMT/LMS. Additionally, you want as low an Le/Re ratio as possible.
> 
> As for specific examples to add to the list, I don't have much to add to Autiophile's list. Just some of TC Sounds' better designs (LMT/LMS, TC2+/TC1k) and, potentially, the Acoupower stuff. Maybe B&C's 21SW150, which is one driver I'd love to try but don't want to pay for. Otherwise, he hit all of the current high points.
> 
> Very few car-fi branded subs, frankly, are worth a damn. Certainly, they're not worth anything near what's asked for them. There are exceptions such as the JBL GTi line, but they are just that: rare exceptions.


check link in post #9


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

This just my opinion, but some that has not been listed, I like the:

Alto Mobile Falstaff
DLS Iridium sub
The real/first Soundstream Exacts


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## ClinesSelect (Apr 16, 2006)

kenk said:


> check link in post #9


How do you feel the UL12 stacks up to the drivers listed by DS-21 since the magazine has not tested any of them?


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

I usually hate these types of threads but the w7 is hands down the best sq sub for me.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

If you put it in a perfectly sealed box (IE gasket the sub in, make sure there isn't even a pinhole leak), one of my fav's ever is the Boston Pro 12.54lf. Unfortunately, everyone seemed to think they were SPL woofers due to the huge-gantic cast basket. They are not SPL monsters by any means. They do play accurately IMO.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Mooble said:


> Best one I've ever heard...
> 
> a/d/s/ 310px


Looking at that beauty of a subwoofer....if one were to make their own subwoofer...thats how you'd have to do it.

Without and expensive extruding machine or metal stampr to make a basket the modular machined pieces would be the only option I could think of.

YUMMY.:blush:


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## robert gi (Aug 12, 2008)

jl audio?


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

ClinesSelect said:


> How do you feel the UL12 stacks up to the drivers listed by DS-21 since the magazine has not tested any of them?


well tc sounds is no longer in business so it doesnt matter. i never heard of b&c. i use a w12gti mkii myself simply because i cant afford/justify a ul12. the w12gti meets all my needs


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## POLKAT (Jan 10, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> Not really. Assuming "best SQ sub" means "sub that's most faithful to the original source material," you want to look for a motor that at the very least incorporates shorting (Faraday) rings and possibly some sort of linear-BL topology such as XBL^2, some form of split coil design, or LMT/LMS. Additionally, you want as low an Le/Re ratio as possible.
> 
> As for specific examples to add to the list, I don't have much to add to Autiophile's list. Just some of TC Sounds' better designs (LMT/LMS, TC2+/TC1k) and, potentially, the Acoupower stuff. Maybe B&C's 21SW150, which is one driver I'd love to try but don't want to pay for. Otherwise, he hit all of the current high points.
> 
> Very few car-fi branded subs, frankly, are worth a damn. Certainly, they're not worth anything near what's asked for them. There are exceptions such as the JBL GTi line, but they are just that: rare exceptions.


I completely agree with what you say. I guess it just boils down to what the OP's definition of SQ is. Maybe "musically accurate" would be better terminology.


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## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

Horsemanwill said:


> Pyramid Super blue


You think that's good; how about the Super Pro Super Blue!



robert gi said:


> jl audio?


Ford?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> Not really. Assuming "best SQ sub" means "sub that's most faithful to the original source material," you want to look for a motor that at the very least incorporates shorting (Faraday) rings and possibly some sort of linear-BL topology such as XBL^2, some form of split coil design, or LMT/LMS. Additionally, you want as low an Le/Re ratio as possible.


Look for as many of these as you can find ^^^^^^


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

Autiophile said:


> Okay, so when asked to compare your choice to those mentioned by DS, your response is the following: 1) tc sounds doesn't matter (wonder if anyone has ever purchased a used subwoofer...) 2) you've never heard of b&c. 3) All your needs are met by one of the subs he mentioned (w12gti)
> 
> Nowhere in that response did I actually hear an argument for why the UL12 is so great. What can it do that these other drivers can't? (besides attract your attention, which apparently is a qualifier to be in contention, given your apparent dismissal of b&c just because they aren't on your radar). What do you gain by going to the UL12? Is your opinion based on measurement, subjective comparisons in the same car, Internet popularity?


1) used subwoofers are no longer supported or warrantied, accidents happen
2)its true
3)thats only my personal choice. have your read the link i posted?


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

kenk said:


> 1) used subwoofers are no longer supported or warrantied, accidents happen
> 2)its true
> 3)thats only my personal choice. have your read the link i posted?


So a dying magazine is the foremost authority on what is the best sq subwoofer? 

I think they were hoping you had some personal experience with the sub to back up the fact that you immediately added it to the top of the heap.


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## ClinesSelect (Apr 16, 2006)

You can buy brand new TC Sounds (Audiopulse) subs with a warranty. 

B&C makes some outstanding products. Give them a listen if you get a chance.

And you are correct, it is personal choice. The downside to relying upon magazine articles is that they only test a small fraction of the available products.


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

why would it matter if a magazine is dying? it is supply and demand and technology (newspapers are dying too) i wonder why? amateur experience is nothing compared to professional engineering and qualified editors


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

kenk said:


> why would it matter if a magazine is dying? it is supply and demand and technology (newspapers are dying too) i wonder why? amateur experience is nothing compared to professional engineering and qualified editors



Ok, so just to clarify, correct me if i'm wrong. You've never actually owned or listened to a UL12 for any period of time, and yet you maintain that it's the best woofer because a "qualified" magazine editor says it is? Let me ask you this then, are you at least familiar with his qualifications?


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

like i said in the other thread- a speaker/sub is only as good as the technology behind it. if you are saying amateurs are better than engineers you are kidding yourself


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

kenk said:


> like i said in the other thread- a speaker/sub is only as good as the technology behind it. if you are saying amateurs are better than engineers you are kidding yourself


So now a magazine editor is an engineer? Have you ever heard a UL12? You keep skating that question.

*Edit, I wasn't really trying to attack you. I was hoping that by now you'd say something like "Yes, i've heard a UL12, and it sounded great to me." However, it sounds like you've never heard the sub in your life, and are clinging to the magazine review as if it's gospel.


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

here let me put it this way- is a lamborghini worth the $200,000 price tag? its high cost is for all the r&d that goes into it not just the labor and exotic materials and dealer cost


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

kenk said:


> here let me put it this way- is a lamborghini worth the $200,000 price tag? its high cost is for all the r&d that goes into it not just the labor and exotic materials and dealer cost


If you ask me? No. A Lamborghini is not worth a $200,000 price tag. The funny part is, they don't usually have any more R&D in a Lambo than your average Honda Accord. The car is just built for a different purpose. I could think of better ways to spend $200,000 on a car(s).


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## POLKAT (Jan 10, 2007)

This forum really needs to add a damn "popcorn" smiley...


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

i didnt say jbl and others are amateurs i said a forum guy like ds-21 since you asked


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

It's 1am here, so what else is there to do but argue on the internet? lol


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## ClinesSelect (Apr 16, 2006)

WRX/Z28 said:


> So now a magazine editor is an engineer? Have you ever heard a UL12? You keep skating that question.


If I was him I would have pointed out the fact that it was Vance Dickason who tested the UL12.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

kenk said:


> i didnt say jbl and others are amateurs i said a forum guy like ds-21 since you asked


As much as I don't always agree with DS-21, i'd say he's far from amatuer.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

Autiophile said:


> If a lambo is your example of a high value car then suddenly your lust for the ul12 makes a lot more sense. Tons of money for something that gets beat around the track by a vette. At least it looks pretty while getting beat. I think many here care about performance and results rather than appearances and price.


No! A $75k vette beating a $200k Lamborghini? It couldn't be! 

Funny how most Lamborghini's are owned by Rap stars, and rich weenies, and not purebred F1 drivers or even scca racers.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

ClinesSelect said:


> If I was him I would have pointed out the fact that it was Vance Dickason who tested the UL12.


Eh, I asked if he knew the guys qualifications. He obviously didn't. 

*edit. I also never claimed that I did.


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## 86mr2 (Apr 29, 2005)

Cypher07 said:


> I was just trying to strike up a conversation ie opinions


Get enough opinions? Conversation? LOL


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

kenk said:


> check link in post #9


That driver has an interesting looking motor, to be sure, combining an XBL^2-style dual gap with an Aura-style neo radial "beehive." Not sure I buy that the basket acts as a shorting ring. And for $2k one would expect each one to be hand built and tested such that the suspension was mounted with precisely zero offset rather than 1.5mm. Also, with all that going on one would expect a broader plateau of motor strength, with a rapid falloff, rather than the smooth parabola one typically sees on well-done conventional motor drivers.



kenk said:


> here let me put it this way- is a lamborghini worth the $200,000 price tag? its high cost is for all the r&d that goes into it not just the labor and exotic materials and dealer cost


As others have pointed out, it's mostly the exotic materials (well, not so much exotic as decadent) and brand name. Why else do you think an Audi R8 is on the order of $80k cheaper than the Lambo with which it shares so much?



WRX/Z28 said:


> As much as I don't always agree with DS-21, i'd say he's far from amatuer.


Nah, that's a fair comment. I'm definitely an amateur.


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## clbolt (Jan 9, 2008)

WRX/Z28 said:


> No! A $75k vette beating a $200k Lamborghini? It couldn't be!
> 
> Funny how most Lamborghini's are owned by Rap stars, and rich weenies, and not purebred F1 drivers or even scca racers.


A world champion boxer took delivery of a new Lamborghini at a dealership I worked at. He did a few smoking burnouts on the street behind the dealership, then pulled out of our lot, and started a full-throttle run up an onramp in front of our store. Halfway up the ramp, the transmission exploded. Fun stuff.


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## Piman (Aug 8, 2008)

Back on topic.

Two subs that have not been mentioned but in my opinion occupy the two top slots of the SQ crown for car subs are:

1. Velodyne servo sub
2. Phase Linear Aliante

Neither will go particularly loud but for SQ very little comes close, especially the Velodyne. Unfortunately neither can be bought new now so if you see a good one for sale garb it.

These are both very high SQ subs whatever you listen to. An SQ sub will sound good whatever you are playing and wherever you use it. However proper installation and the correct enclosure is needed. It is easy to make a good sub sound bad.

James


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

He did say "cost is no object" so all these references to the Critical Mass being overpriced are pointless. It's not so much the use of exotic materials, but rather the use of exotic materials and limited production with which to recoup those R&D costs that make it expensive.

BTW, the Corvette Z06 was resoundingly beaten by the Lamborghini Gallardo on four different tracks by some of the best drivers out there so money obviously can buy better performance.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6944


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Yeah. *DS-21 *have you had a chance to take a look at CSS subs or the new SI MAG. They have both peaked my interest lately. The T/S on the SI MAG has been released but I have not found anything on the CSS yet. Have you seen anything posted on the CSS?

Here is the only thing I have seen on the new MAG. I have read a couple of glowing reviews.

FEA optimized XBL^2™ motor
» Linear BL optimization to keep T/S’s and performance constant
» Dual 2 Ohm voice coil configuration
» 3” high-temperature copper voice coil wound on an aluminum VC former
» Copper anodized pole piece with an integrated Faraday ring
» Rubber surround
» Extremely low and linear inductance
» Paper pulp composite cone
» 8” diameter spider
» Woven-on voice coil tinsel leads

The following figures were taken with the coils in series:

Re: 3.9 Ohms
Le: 0.76 mH
Fs: 29 Hz
Vas: 75 liters
Sd: 490 cm^2
BL: 14.0
Qms: 4.0
Qes: .494
Qts: .44
SPL: 87.6
Mms: 135 g
Xmax: 16mm
Xsus: 22mm

These T/S's were taken off a fresh production run unit. With a little break-in (aka: an hour of use) the Fs will drop into the mid 20's.


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## WRX/Z28 (Feb 21, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> Nah, that's a fair comment. I'm definitely an amateur.


Maybe in the strictest definition of the word, but not in the context he was using it. 



Mooble said:


> He did say "cost is no object" so all these references to the Critical Mass being overpriced are pointless. It's not so much the use of exotic materials, but rather the use of exotic materials and limited production with which to recoup those R&D costs that make it expensive.
> 
> BTW, the Corvette Z06 was resoundingly beaten by the Lamborghini Gallardo on four different tracks by some of the best drivers out there.
> 
> http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6944


See what Lambo guys are saying: http://www.lamborghini-talk.com/vbforum/f22/new-video-gallardo-vs-new-z06-3691/

Somehow I think if you made the minor change of removing the runflats, and put a real tire under the car, the results would be much different. The Z06 is definately a more capable car IMO. On top of all that, who tunes a Gallardo? I know you can drop the Z06 off to Lingenfelter, and end up with another 100hp+. 

Either that, or wait and compare to the new ZR1.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

kenk said:


> check link in post #9


Notice the design on the UL12, similar to XBL^2 uses split gap, dual gap, same thing.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

DS-21 said:


> That driver has an interesting looking motor, to be sure, combining an XBL^2-style dual gap with an Aura-style neo radial "beehive." Not sure I buy that the basket acts as a shorting ring. And for $2k one would expect each one to be hand built and tested such that the suspension was mounted with precisely zero offset rather than 1.5mm. Also, with all that going on one would expect a broader plateau of motor strength, with a rapid falloff, rather than the smooth parabola one typically sees on well-done conventional motor drivers.


Oops- already covered, not surprisingly, by DS-21.


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## X Ray (Oct 29, 2007)

I haven't heard the 23W, but I figured I'd throw it out there being it is the best that ScanSpeak has to offer. They seem to do everything else perfectly, so I'd be shocked if they f**ked up here. You'd probably need four of them to get decent output, but cost was no object. 










Electrical Data
Nominal Impedance Zn 4 ohm
DC Resistance Re 3.45 ohm
Voice Coil Inductance Le 0.45 mH

TS Parameters
Resonance Frequency fs 20.5 Hz
Mechanical Q factor QMS 4.8 
Electrical Q factor QES 0.52 
Total Q factor Qts 0.47 
Force Factor Bl 9.3 Tm
Mechanical Resistance Rms 2.7 Kg/s
Moving Mass Mms 101 g
Effective Piston Area sd 232 cm^2
Equivalent Volume Vas 45.6 ltrs
Sensitivity 2.83V/1m 82 dB

Power Handling
100h RMS noise test IEC 225 W

Voice Coil and Magnet Parameters
Voice Coil Diameter 50 mm
Linear Excursion +/- 13 mm
Max mech. excursion +/- 20 mm


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

Seas Lotus mentioned?


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Hey KenK, since you're such a fan of the UL12 there are a couple mentioned for sale in the Hot Deals forum. Then you can have a listen and tell us if it really is that great.


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## X Ray (Oct 29, 2007)

its_bacon12 said:


> Seas Lotus mentioned?


Do they make a sub? I know Seas has some 10" woofers, but I didn't know they had a purpose built "sub". 

*edit* just went to the Seas website...........appear they do have subs, but they don't show them on the website. Link, anybody?


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Tang Band 6.5.....
Yep, I said it


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

X Ray said:


> Do they make a sub? I know Seas has some 10" woofers, but I didn't know they had a purpose built "sub".
> 
> *edit* just went to the Seas website...........appear they do have subs, but they don't show them on the website. Link, anybody?


http://www.mobilesq.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24_63_37&products_id=174

That's the first one that popped into my head.


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## X Ray (Oct 29, 2007)

Boostedrex said:


> http://www.mobilesq.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24_63_37&products_id=174
> 
> That's the first one that popped into my head.


Has anyone done any testing on it? Any distortion or inductance plots on it?


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> Tang Band 6.5.....
> Yep, I said it



X2, its small, cheap, sounds great, takes up no space and in a well built box can hit like a mofo!!


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## GenPac (Oct 29, 2007)

Peerless XXLS series are nice too... 830876 is the one I ran for a while.


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

GenPac said:


> Peerless XXLS series are nice too... 830876 is the one I ran for a while.


I'll be able to add my opinion to that after I finish the build I'm doing with a pair of those XXLS's


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

ItalynStylion said:


> I'll be able to add my opinion to that after I finish the build I'm doing with a pair of those XXLS's


I think you'll like playing with a good driver after wasting all that time with the idmax!


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> I think you'll like playing with a good driver after wasting all that time with the idmax!


I'll have to change my avatar too....


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## iD Z24 (Aug 6, 2008)

iDW15


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Genxx said:


> Yeah. *DS-21 *have you had a chance to take a look at CSS subs or the new SI MAG. They have both peaked my interest lately. The T/S on the SI MAG has been released but I have not found anything on the CSS yet. Have you seen anything posted on the CSS?


All I know about the SI Mag is some stuff that Neil posted on here sometime earlier this summer.

If by CSS you mean the SDX15 and the like, I've read about them but never played with one. Illka took measurements of some subs using them at hometheatershack.com. They look fine, but they're considerably more expensive than the Exodus Tempest-X and on paper at least I don't see a performance advantage for the CSS ones. I've not played with the Tempest-X, but based on my experience with the Maelstrom-X the Tempest would likely be my go-to 15" woofer right now were the JBL W15GTi not available.


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## dftnz7 (Mar 2, 2008)

DS-21, 

What is a good 12" XBL^2 based sub or similar technology that incorporates a shorting ring AND can work in a small sealed enclosure without huge amounts of power? I have wanted to try the Shiva-X myself but the box requirement is a bit large for me.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

dftnz7, what about the JBL W12GTi?


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

That's been mentioned I thought; has it not? I've heard rave things about them but have yet to actually hear one myself.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> That's been mentioned I thought; has it not? I've heard rave things about them but have yet to actually hear one myself.


I've heard one that was in a ported box and it sounded pretty much perfect to me. If I were shopping around for a new sub, the WGTi would be in my top 3 list without a doubt.


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## its_bacon12 (Aug 16, 2007)

dftnz7 said:


> DS-21,
> 
> What is a good 12" XBL^2 based sub or similar technology that incorporates a shorting ring AND can work in a small sealed enclosure without huge amounts of power? I have wanted to try the Shiva-X myself but the box requirement is a bit large for me.


Check out CSS SD12. Its not XBL^2 but its not a bad woofer. The new Mags are designed for small sealed, and are a VERY well designed XBL^2 subwoofer. Pricetag of $250 is a deal.

Also, the BM for $150 is a great deal too. Both great XBL^2 implemented subwoofers.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Autiophile said:


> Yeah, I mentioned it in post 8. I love my w12gtis. For some reason, they still don't seem to be very popular. I actually tried to sell them when I dismantled my system and got no takers even at what I thought were pretty low prices. All for the best though, I would have missed them if I'd let them go and they'll have a nice role in my living room.



I knew that they were mentioned earlier, but dftnz7 apparently didn't see that. So I figured I would mention it again. 

Funny you should mention your living room. I'm going to use either the W15GTi or the Tempest X for my HT sub that's going to get built soon. The decision will come down to which one I'll be able to pick up for the better price.


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## dirthog (Jun 21, 2007)

No love for the Polk SR124!? I've been running with one for over a year and have been very pleased with the SQ.

It digs deep and when I feel like cranking some rap it's ready to go.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

dftnz7 said:


> DS-21,
> 
> What is a good 12" XBL^2 based sub or similar technology that incorporates a shorting ring AND can work in a small sealed enclosure without huge amounts of power?


Honestly, I don't know. It's not really something I've looked for. 
I've not modeled the JBL W12GTi, but if the depth isn't a problem based on my experience with the W15GTi box size shouldn't be much of an issue. You could certainly do worse, and only possibly do better. The SI Mag might be the driver you're looking for, but I don't know if it has shorting rings or what size box it wants.

If you're willing to go with a conventional overhung driver, the original Peerless XLS12 otherwise meets your requirements and is an extremely good-sounding, well-built woofer. It's been around for a long time now, but it's still a fantastic driver.


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

dftnz7 said:


> DS-21,
> 
> What is a good 12" XBL^2 based sub or similar technology that incorporates a shorting ring AND can work in a small sealed enclosure without huge amounts of power? I have wanted to try the Shiva-X myself but the box requirement is a bit large for me.


I love my W12GTI MKII but unlike the UL12, it weighs in at a hefty 45 pounds and mounting length is 10 inches. The new SI MAG which is optimized for small sealed (requires only 1 cu ft.) SQ and rated 1000 watts RMS is a steal with xbl2 and a neo magnet that is built into the basket which cuts it weight and shallow mounting depth of 5.5 inches. And best of all its on preorder on the SI site for $250 shipped! The new forum boner for cheap bastards that can't afford a UL
http://www.stereointegrity.com/mag.php


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

kenk said:


> SQ and rated 1000 watts RMS is a steal with xbl2 and a neo magnet that is built into the basket which cuts it weight and shallow mounting depth of 5.5 inches.


I don't see anything that says the magnet is neo. (Might have simply missed it, but I searched for "neo" and Safari didn't give me any hits.) Given that, I would expect that it isn't. So mass won't be as low. Still, I can see for a lot of cars a relatively shallow driver would be a good thing. Though the XLS12 is (a little) shallower still, and very much a known quantity.


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## dftnz7 (Mar 2, 2008)

Boostedrex said:


> I knew that they were mentioned earlier, but dftnz7 apparently didn't see that. So I figured I would mention it again.
> 
> Funny you should mention your living room. I'm going to use either the W15GTi or the Tempest X for my HT sub that's going to get built soon. The decision will come down to which one I'll be able to pick up for the better price.


Oh I saw it mentioned earlier, I just don't think small box requirement, and like a bazillion inch mounting depth are usually something that go hand in hand. I have a custom made armrest sealed box that is 1.1^3 (I have some filler in it now to make it .9 for the IDQ) and don't want to use anything larger than this. I can't go much deeper than 8 inches or so, and I think the GTi is something like 10+ inches without looking.

I like my IDQ, a lot, it is very musical, accurate, and precise, and so easy to blend into the front stage. My only complaints are output, and low end extension. With 600wrms in a relatively large enclosure for it, it ought to dig a little deeper than it does, and be a little more authoritative when asked to be. A friend of mine has a 12" Fi SSD in .63 cubes after displacement, which is WAY too small for it, with 500wrms, and it digs way deeper and is way louder than my IDQ. Yes, it sounds like crap for the most part, unless you listen to nothing but rap, but I would like at times to have that little extra umph when I need it. 

Is there anything in the Mag's specs that suggest it would have any more output? I would actually be underpowering somewhat AND giving up some excursion capability. I can't believe it only has 16mm xmax being underhung as it is. Not that much music is going to require or approach that kind of excursion, but still. The GTi is something I would consider buying used, but again, the depth is the problem. I would love to run a Shiva-X, but can't give up 1.5^3 to do it. Maybe something like an Icon would be more in line with what I am looking to try?

Basically I am looking try something that has the musicality and accuracy of something like an IDQv3 but with just a little more authority....And sorry for the thread hijack BTW.


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## kenk (Feb 27, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> I don't see anything that says the magnet is neo. (Might have simply missed it, but I searched for "neo" and Safari didn't give me any hits.) Given that, I would expect that it isn't. So mass won't be as low. Still, I can see for a lot of cars a relatively shallow driver would be a good thing. Though the XLS12 is (a little) shallower still, and very much a known quantity.


oops nvm about the neo


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Price generally tells you if it is neo


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Well, the best ones *"I"* have heard so far were a pair of the JL 13W6 on an IB setup. But the main thing to point out is that the installation was flawless, that was the key. Flame on...


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