# To use provided crossovers, or set them aside? ( Focal )



## KillaX (Aug 3, 2016)

Starting to crack down on my audio build and I wanted to run something pass people, before just assuming/doing so, then find out I'm making things way more harder than it needs to be...

My current audio setup consists of an OEM headunit, due to the fact the vehicle is very oriented around that headunit, and replacing it with an aftermarket removes a ton of features to the car, along with having to replace the entire dash plate, making things just look ugly. That said, below is my current setup.

• OEM-Headunit feeds 4-CH to A processor ( JL-Audio FIX82 ) mounted in the glove box, next to the headunit.
• Processor spits the signal out, over digital fiber, to the rear of the car, where the amps are. This is recieved by a JL-Audio TwK-D8 processor, which has the ability to do 4 sets of (L) (R) outputs. Digital crossovers. Time delays, etc.
• The TwK spits signal out to a JL-Audio XD400/4v2 Amplifier, which currently just feed 5.25" and 6.00" JL CS3s

This current setup works, I have all 4 channels delayed, allowing for a good sound stage. Upon being played loud, I'm extremely impressed with the sound clarity of vocals, for a coaxial setup, making it sound like the person is singing right next to you. Compared to the stock headunit ( Fix82 has direct-passthrough ability, delay/EQ correction disabled ), it sounds utterly horrible, muffled, and dirty, listening to straight feed. I least expected this much clarity from simply processing the factory headunit. But, I figured if jumping from 5" JBL speakers to more expensive JL speakers, could make a drastic improvement, I wanted to try component.

I currently now own a set of 'Focal ES 165K2' speakers ( 100W RMS ), which come with their Focal Crossovers. This is a Bi-Amp tweeter+Woofer unit, and they mention you can jumper it, if you wish to have 1 set of signals in.



So. All explained, heres my question. Considering Focal is a good brand, and a good deal of money, I'd expect their crossover to be 'very' good. Having Tweeter adjustments ( -3 0 +3 ) and Woofer low-pass slope ( 6 / 12 ). So, it begs the question. Should I go the cheaper rout, of running a 4 channel ( FL FR RL RR ) and letting the crossover network handle it all? ( I do plan to up my amp for quality reasons, to either a JL HD 600/4 or Alpine PDXF6 ) Or is it worth that much more, to run it as bi-amp, by feeding a dedicated woofer channel, and tweeter channel? Or even yet..Is it better to just discard ( store ) the crossover, and direct-wire them to my amp, and just 100% use the TwK for slope/crossover work?

I'm sure most will say to just run straight out the amp and use the digital crossover setup built into the TwK, as its less 'stuff' in the path. But I'm aware doing this, can put risk of blowing tweeters if you do not know what your doing. There's also the question of, how good Focal's crossover network is, that they designed FOR these speakers, compared to JL's processor.

I just dont want to take my own judgement on this, and find out later I made the wrong mistake by choosing to use the built-in digital crossovers, VS what focal intended you to use.

And yes, I do run rears, As I'm not a concert guy, I am "I like sound coming all around me" person. Tried running fronts only w/sub in the rear, Highly disliked it. I like feeling as-though the sound stage is center of the vehicle / all around me. The way i currently run things with delays, Gives a feel of being in the center of a room, with speakers in all 4 corners, equally coming to my ears, full immersion. Yes, Music isnt 'surround sound tracks' but hearing the rears exist, for fill, is my personal desired preference. For this reason, its why I'm asking these questions. As running 4 channels to do Front left/right woofer+tweeters, means ill need ANOTHER amp, to handle the rears, So not only do these fancy looking crossovers go to waste, but more $$$ is spent buying a 2nd amp.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

I would certainly lose the passives in your situation. They are fine for what they are, but they burn power, effect load impedance, etc, and they are just there if better options aren't available. If they allowed for more options than I know they do, I might hesitate, but they are probably fixed at one frequency, have limited slope/level options/etc.


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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

You have a point of course about needing another amp, I don't know how interested you are in that.

If you aren't a "concert guy" (read "don't care about crazy volume") you might be fine using them so the components are just two channels, and your rears are the other two. I know tuning fully active with both fronts and rears can be a time consumer, so you would avoid that at least. Try it and if they don't play well enough at the volume you like then think more about complicating ...

I've always found that those types of focals play "bright to harsh" at power (in upper midrange) without active tuning. But lower power, this is less of a problem.


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## KillaX (Aug 3, 2016)

GEM592 said:


> I would certainly lose the passives in your situation. They are fine for what they are, but they burn power, effect load impedance, etc, and they are just there if better options aren't available. If they allowed for more options than I know they do, I might hesitate, but they are probably fixed at one frequency, have limited slope/level options/etc.


Right, They're fixed and have a selected-few choices for slope/frequency. I wasnt sure how these would work, as from my understandings these are the newer 'M' style tweeters claim to be different from the previous "Focal K2 Power 165 KRX3" which I heard are sorta harsh to the ears, depending on the person. Lot of variables person to person of course, That's why we all have our own favorite speakers. What may sound tingy/harsh to one person, may sound smooth/soft to the next.

I guess another way to look at it, would be considering Passive-Crossovers is plug-and-play, vs no passive-crossovers, will be a bit of fine tuning/fiddling, but better results in the end. I'd just have to do my research to make sure I do it right, as I've heard its really easy to accidentally push tweeters too hard, as people just treat it as a normal speaker ( same voltages all around ) and dont set gains right and poof, no more tweeter.

http://mediacdn.jlaudio.com/media/mfg/9013/media_image/dev_1/TwK_TuN_Crossovers.jpg?1465591965

My setup would probably look similar to this, if I went that way. Front/Right Tweeter, Front/Right mid, Front/Right Sub. I can tell by their graph, they have Coaxial rears, component fronts, and a sub.


Edit:
Focal-America specs their 'audiophile grade' ( Because you know, that makes it better..right? lol ) crossover-point at 3,500hz

http://www.focal-america.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/FT_K2Power_ES165K2.pdf
The woofer is 2 Ohm ( Measures 2.1 ohms on my cheap meter )
As of their 2016 models ( these ) they're Kevlar + Foam + Fiberglass layered cones
http://www.focal.com/en/content/11938-kevlar-sandwich-cone

The tweeter is ??? Ohms ( Measures 3.7 ohms on my cheap meter )

Below is a link to their 2016 tweeters
http://www.focal.com/en/content/11939-m-shaped-inverted-dome-tweeter

Only bring this up since apparently their new 2016 line has 'improvements' from the past models. The woofers frames are made not to resonant, better cooler, and the tweeters are made to be not as harsh. So I'm looking forward, to seeing how true this is.


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

Think of your overall goals and your limits, be it space, time, money.

Then decide if full active or bi-amping (using the passives) will "fit". What I mean by "fit" is, do you have/are you willing to spend the extra money? Do you have enough room for another amp? You stated that you might go to the HD line, sell the current 4ch and buy a 6ch. There are a few good ones out there.

I'm running Sundown Audio SA's all around, actively in a 3-way + sub, no rears. This is the best sounding SQ setup I've ever had. 

Personally, I think you'll get better sound going active and ditching the passives. Just be smart with the tweeters and you'll be fine. Tweeters in general don't need a lot of power to do what they need to. I'm giving mine a rated 25w (actual 56w, benched) and they're just fine. A clean signal is also paramount. 

So again, ask yourself, 
1) What's my over all goal?
2) Am I willing to, or what am I willing to spend to achieve that goal?
3) Do I have the room or am I willing to give up more room to reach said goal?

You might find your answer right there.
3)


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## chitownrik (Mar 11, 2016)

Although I agree am active setup will probably yield the best results as long as you're willing to spend the time and money. However, we are a focal dealer and I can tell you those new m style tweeters on the kevlars do sound better, less harsh. We've done a ton of installs with the passives with good results 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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