# Horns and foot/pedal clearance



## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Yeah my first thread in here 

I recently re-installed my horns, and in the process I managed to put them a bit more than 1" deeper with just a little wider placement.
Everything seemed fine, but once I started to drive today I realized it might be too much.
I mean I can just squeeze my left foot on the brake pedal but there's not much gap on top.
If I had big boots I wouldn't be able to drive.
The right one is clear, can also brake with it, but I just don't like it (I learned to drive auto when I arrived here in US )
Also I gained back my glove box and a left pocket, real handy.

So how do you do with your guys?
Do you accept the disconfort, any advice on the long term, like I know this is not right for any emergency stop if my foot is not ready.
And i'm not even thinking about giving the keys to my girl...

Some pics, from the floor to the dash I have my exact foot length.


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

That would concern me enough that it would not be an option. One of my family members crashed their car because they could not get their foot on the brake pedal. Safety features like this, seatbelts, airbags and others, are just not worth compromising in the pursuit of better acoustics.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

I've always mini bodies so no issues


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Jazzi said:


> That would concern me enough that it would not be an option. One of my family members crashed their car because they could not get their foot on the brake pedal. Safety features like this, seatbelts, airbags and others, are just not worth compromising in the pursuit of better acoustics.


Yeah I understand, in fact before they were already pretty obnoxious but they didn't interact with my usual position so I didn't really bother. Except go in/go out.
Now I have to think about it, and since I drove this car for now maybe 5 yrs, the reflex is already stuck.
And 1" deeper should not change a lot on the acoustic.





Mic10is said:


> I've always mini bodies so no issues


In fact I asked Eric few days ago for some minis! But I'm not sure...
I don't need to go low, but I like to have the possibility.
Over 1.6khz they're better?


Thx guys.
I'll test a full tune to see if there's really any added value.
But even though, I feel like I'll go back.


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## estione (Jul 24, 2009)

You use two feet to drive an auto??


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## Eric Stevens (Dec 29, 2007)

Left foot braking is for driving an open wheel race car or kart. 

If its not safe dont do it.

You might gain the clearance you need by moving them even wider, you would need to cut off the small flange or cut into the metal in the kick area.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Mic10is said:


> I've always mini bodies so no issues


Depends on the car. Not even the minis fit on my Mustang. It was so disappointing when I could not get them to work. I also have a manual car so clutch clearance is a big deal. The driver was in the way, I wish those drivers could be relocated but not sure if that can be done.

I am so ready for horns in my car, if I could only get them to fit without interfering with my driving.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

estione said:


> You use two feet to drive an auto??


good one!


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

estione said:


> You use two feet to drive an auto??


Yes I do, most of the time.





Eric Stevens said:


> Left foot braking is for driving an open wheel race car or kart.
> 
> If its not safe dont do it.
> 
> You might gain the clearance you need by moving them even wider, you would need to cut off the small flange or cut into the metal in the kick area.


Thx Eric, 
I might be able to gain 1 cm on the side but not much more without cutting, it won't change a lot. It’s more the motor than the flange that is my limit.
And with all the harness stuff that is there I’m not up for the big job yet.
But I will try wider and a little bit less deeper, to keep my glovebox and better foot clearance.

If I cut the flange, so no more left mount support, I guess I can put a screw through the throat without too much ill effect? Especially with a flat head screw and cleanly done.





fcarpio said:


> Depends on the car. Not even the minis fit on my Mustang. It was so disappointing when I could not get them to work. I also have a manual car so clutch clearance is a big deal. The driver was in the way, I wish those drivers could be relocated but not sure if that can be done.
> 
> I am so ready for horns in my car, if I could only get them to fit without interfering with my driving.


I can imagine the disappointment. 
What if you cut a full body to the size of the mini, with the driver sideway?


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

This is the best pic I have of what I did in my TI
the horns were mounted up a little higher and behind the Knee bolster panel. I cut a large section of the panel outand then used ABS to fill it back in so it surrounded the horn. So the horn could still load correctly and follow the contours of the ABS and were still off axis enough not to cause an issue with directivity or beaming. 

It also made them completely invisible for the most part. unless someone knew me and knew I ran horns there were no visible signs that I ran horns. I got into many arguments with judges who didnt believe I had horns in my car


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Mic10is said:


> This is the best pic I have of what I did in my TI
> the horns were mounted up a little higher and behind the Knee bolster panel. I cut a large section of the panel outand then used ABS to fill it back in so it surrounded the horn. So the horn could still load correctly and follow the contours of the ABS and were still off axis enough not to cause an issue with directivity or beaming.
> 
> It also made them completely invisible for the most part. unless someone knew me and knew I ran horns there were no visible signs that I ran horns. I got into many arguments with judges who didnt believe I had horns in my car


Very cool. So they were kind of high and less deep compared to some typical install right? I mean without the common transition I've seen a lot, when we try to simulate an extension of the upper part of the mouth with the bottom of the dashboard, at almost the same angle.
So this would mean that the smoothness of the transition is more important than the starting & final angle for this transition (if I'm clear enough).

It gives me some ideas, I could totaly butcher my right side with the glove box and fit either the full body of the mini inside. Even if I'm sure some stuff on the right side of the box will come in the way, there's a lot of wires there.

But on the driver side, you managed to do the same?
In mine I doubt I could, the column is low and would be right in the way.
But maybe once the column scrapped of all trimming to the minimum, set up high to the max, and with a mini on its left it could work as a good compromise.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

They sit next to the inner fender and touch the firewall. They are deep and wide as possible


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Ha ok so what I see is not the mouth, the rectangle appearing behind the fabric here on the pic.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Elgrosso said:


> Ha ok so what I see is not the mouth, the rectangle appearing behind the fabric here on the pic.



Correct. You can see the outline of the opening but the horns sit really far back.


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

So you created an extension, a tunnel to the mouth? 

(btw, amazing install pics on your photobucket!)


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Mic10is,
This may work for me. Are these full size horns?










Is that the driver right above and to the right of the brake pedal? Which horns/drivers are these?


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

fcarpio said:


> Mic10is,
> This may work for me. Are these full size horns?
> 
> 
> ...


Nope, Ive never been a fan of the full size. larger, typically harder to mount ( for me) and I dont think they staged as well. Wasnt worth it just to lower the XO point


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

found some install pics

You can see how the horns are installed and how the panel was cut




















Here you can see the ABS panels that were attached to the bolster panel to allow the horn to load properly.

Then the whole panel was wrapped in grill cloth.
*all the wholes that were drilled were bc initially I thought id have to fiberglass the transitions but CA glue and accelerator with the ABS worked fine.


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## danno14 (Sep 1, 2009)

^^^ I can attest to how this sounds! Implementation may or may not be as easy, depending upon the vehicle and skill set of the installer.....


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Awesome, thank you Mic10is!


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

I got lucky with mine being in a RHD vehicle I guess. When I'm wearing my work boots, the toe rubs on bottom back of the body while using the gas pedal, but moving from the gas to the brake is obstruction free. Chucks or bare feet are totally clear.


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

sinister-kustoms said:


> I got lucky with mine being in a RHD vehicle I guess. When I'm wearing my work boots, the toe rubs on bottom back of the body while using the gas pedal, but moving from the gas to the brake is obstruction free. Chucks or bare feet are totally clear.


Nice, yeah I guess it would be ok for me too... ok I need to find a RHD now 

I had no idea car horns were also popular out of US.
Well, it’s just that I’ve never seen one in France for example, and never hear of it.


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## sinister-kustoms (Jul 22, 2009)

Elgrosso said:


> I had no idea car horns were also popular out of US.
> Well, it’s just that I’ve never seen one in France for example, and never hear of it.


They're not very common down here in NZ. I know a handful of people that own them, but afaik, I'm the only one with a set actually installed in a vehicle right this minute lol.


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

ok, popular was not the right word  
(I also see that you have some serious stuff on FB)
So we need to spread the word! I will


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

I pushed mine out further, it helped with toe clearance on the pedals. On my current car, I lucked out that the bottom of the dash could clear it no problem.

Like mic, mini horns.


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

With the full size horns, the driver is on the top? What if you left/right flip the bodies so the drivers are on the bottom? Does that help push them out further?


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

nadams5755 said:


> I pushed mine out further, it helped with toe clearance on the pedals. On my current car, I lucked out that the bottom of the dash could clear it no problem.
> 
> Like mic, mini horns.


Nice, I will get the minis soon so will try. They should give back a lot of clearance, but let’s see how they sound.
I will also check if I can put them in the dash, a bit like Mic10is did.




nadams5755 said:


> With the full size horns, the driver is on the top? What if you left/right flip the bodies so the drivers are on the bottom? Does that help push them out further?


Motors on top right now, I have nice holes in the dash right at this place for both.
But with previous install, 2" closer to me, I couldn't fit the motor up.

In all cases, pushed further they will touch the brake pedal itself (not only the linkage). I don't have a lot of height there.


Maybe the minis would solve everything. My center console is not so big and not too high so maybe it will be ok.
And I’m curious to hear their «*stronger » crosstalk, because I already think the full bodies have a strong one, I’m not sure I want more.


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