# HAT L6se carbon 6.5"



## rynfarrell (Apr 11, 2011)

So I got my new speakers in the mail today. I have to say that these, without a doubt, are the most beautiful speakers I have ever laid my eyes upon. I will be installing them tonight/tomorrow morning. If they sound as good as they look I am going to be one happy mofo. 

A little eye candy in the mean time.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

yummy!


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## sweefu (Jun 26, 2011)

So good. Really big fan of these.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

Those do look great. 
Tuning in for your review.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

I have been interested in hearing more about these for some time now. Last I checked I still couldn't even get specs on them from their website. Definitely tuned in for this.


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## friction (Apr 24, 2008)

Nice looking speaker  I bet they will sound great.From the looks of it they apply a neo magnet

They do resemble my AP Replica series (Carbon Cone) but these implement a ferrite magnet and a phase plug


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## wdemetrius1 (Aug 16, 2007)

^^

I was thinking the same thing. That's crazy!!!


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

friction said:


> Nice looking speaker  I bet they will sound great.From the looks of it they apply a neo magnet
> 
> They do resemble my AP Replica series (Carbon Cone) but these implement a ferrite magnet and a phase plug


What is the model number of those?


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Is that surround on the L6se foam or cloth? I am thinking cloth but it is hard to tell from the pic.


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## friction (Apr 24, 2008)

Niebur3 said:


> What is the model number of those?


My speakers are the AP Replica family produced somewhat 2years ago by H-Audio factory in Asia. Model number is R 6.25 CF for oem clients. The model number and spec may differ in other countries

R= Replica
6= Inch
25 = voice coil diameter
C= Carbon
F=Ferrite

Below is the *R 6.36 MN* Magnesium cone implementing a 70mm disc N45 Neo Magnet


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Niebur3 said:


> What is the model number of those?


Jerry here in the US they where my AP CF6.5. They where all Replica of the my old XR6.5M. The PP6.5 (poly), GF6.5 (Glass fiber), AR6K (Kevlar), CF6.5 (Carbon Fiber) where all Replica of the XR6.5M (Magnesium Alloy). I only had one set of the the CF6.5, I like the GF6.5 a little more. The GF6.5 was a little more open sounding and seem to have a little better Attack and decay. more then likely do to the lighter cone. The CF6.5 was a hair better on the lower end.

* The Hybrid is a beautiful driver for sure. Great buy to the OP. And as the OP stated if it sounds as good as it looks then he is in for a treat.*

And Neo version was going to be my Prolific a Ultra Wide-band. But the XR6.5M was capable of the wide-band, but not quite as good as the Neo Version, but with the price of the Neo going way up. I went the XR6.5M route.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks Mark! Appreciate the info.


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## rynfarrell (Apr 11, 2011)

07azhhr said:


> Is that surround on the L6se foam or cloth? I am thinking cloth but it is hard to tell from the pic.


I think it is some sort of treated cloth. Ill let you know when I finish installing them tonight


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## rynfarrell (Apr 11, 2011)

It decided to rain as soon as I got home from work. I am going to try and get up early to finish the install. Sorry about the delay


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)




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## rynfarrell (Apr 11, 2011)

IBcivic said:


>


haha at least you can listen to music while you wait =P


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

Music and f-glass fumes, to be exact.


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## rynfarrell (Apr 11, 2011)

and raining once again. I now have 3 hours to drink coffee FML


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## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

*Wow , those speakers do look good, just hoping you didn't paid $819 or near that for those. Those sure do look like a rebadged AP copy with a Neo magnet and added Bling. Just hate seeing guys get stuck on the HYPE and pay crazy Prices.

although they do look nice.  * 





*LINK*


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Nice post dump Dave. Even if true, the OP has already bought and is trying to enjoy the new speakers. Plus, do you have anything to even back up your statement?


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## rynfarrell (Apr 11, 2011)

haha its all good Im a big boy. I appreciate the look out though. And I didn't pay retail, however after listening to them driving to Houston and back I wouldn't be upset if i had. 

I had a bad experiance with a HAT dealer and Scott personally made it right. Which alone would get me to pay their premium in the future =)


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## Kellyo77 (Dec 5, 2009)

Wow, the carbons are beautiful. Curious how they sound.


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## Shadowmarx (Feb 12, 2012)

Still rain'n????


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Kellyo77 said:


> Wow, the carbons are beautiful. Curious how they sound.


 


Shadowmarx said:


> Still rain'n????


 

I am going to guess that they sound very good to him judging by this post:



rynfarrell said:


> ..... And I didn't pay retail, however after listening to them driving to Houston and back I wouldn't be upset if i had.


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## n_olympios (Oct 23, 2008)

Even if it is using the same basket and cone (because from the pictures those seem to be the only similarities), still it's a different speaker altogether. The suspension, phase plug and magnet make it one. 

There's nothing wrong with using something that already works, and trying to make it even better. If that comes at a price, so be it, noone's forcing anyone to buy them. 

Hell, people used to buy Alpine's F#1 Status speakers (or Genesis Absolutes for that matter) although they could get the same ones as Scanspeaks for a fraction of the cost. Were they worth the extra? For those that bought them, yes. 

Oh and just to avoid being called a fanboy by anyone, I'd like to point out that I may be an avid Alpine and Genesis fan (yes, HAT too) but I'd say those things about any product out there, no matter what the name on it is.


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## robtr8 (Dec 6, 2011)

I've got 2 pair of AR6K's in my ski boat. Absolutely love them. Looking for another 2 pair to throw on the tower, hell I'd take another pair and drill a couple more holes in the boat.

Used the L6SE Carbons in the S70 because I liked the AR6K's so much but knew they would not fit. The L6SEC's fit perfectly with a little help from a 1/4" HDPE baffle ring.


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## rynfarrell (Apr 11, 2011)

Shadowmarx said:


> Still rain'n????


haha sorry guys. Been crazy busy at work and then with GW2 coming out, my review was put on hold. I have a 3 day weekend coming up and will sit down and write a good review then!


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## Shadowmarx (Feb 12, 2012)

kewl... I have been look at them and would like to read someones OP about'em


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

rynfarrell said:


> haha sorry guys. Been crazy busy at work and then with GW2 coming out, my review was put on hold. I have a 3 day weekend coming up and will sit down and write a good review then!


Ahem. Don't you know people (on the internet) are depending on you?


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## rynfarrell (Apr 11, 2011)

Bah I am officially worthless. I totally forgot. Tonight after work. I will at least start it =)


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

Thanks DAT for your incredibly insightful post. <rolls eyes>

The cast basket is an open-tool design. We do not own the tooling, so I have no doubt you might see one or two other products, such as the AP driver, using this same basket. We needed a true 6.5-inch basket of cast aluminum and high quality, and one already existed. That's where the simularities end. We own the tooling on the cone, dust cap, surround, spider, terminal landing, and magnet radiator. Someone asked about the surround. It is treated fine Japanese silk fabric in an "S" cross-sectional geometry.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2012)

Scott and HAT always offer a very nice product...!


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

Scott Buwalda said:


> The cast basket is an open-tool design. We do not own the tooling, so I have no doubt you might see one or two other products, such as the AP driver, using this same basket. We needed a true 6.5-inch basket of cast aluminum and high quality, and one already existed. That's where the simularities end. We own the tooling on the cone, dust cap, surround, spider, terminal landing, and magnet radiator. Someone asked about the surround. It is treated fine Japanese silk fabric in an "S" cross-sectional geometry.


I've never heard of an "S" surround before. Google here I come.

Oh and BTW these speakers are BEAUTIFUL. If they sound half as good as they look they should be awesome.


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## robtr8 (Dec 6, 2011)

Curious to here your review as well. Been listening to mine for a week or so now.


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## rynfarrell (Apr 11, 2011)

Ok guys I have about 20 minutes before I have to leave for the office. So I will at least write the introduction to my review. I want to start off by apologizing for taking so long to do this. I spent many of younger years touring with Phish, partying at raves and snowboarding all over the US so as a 34 year old I am paying my dues by working my ass off and catching up. 

I am not an expert by any means nor do I claim to have golden ears. Ever since I aquired my first vehicle, an Isuzu Rodeo back in 93, I have put after market stereo's in my rides. I have always had decent home equipment and I like my music loud and clean. 

I originally was the happy owner of some first gen HAT L6. I brought them to a local stereo shop in Austin called "Sideways Auto Salon" to have them along with a MS-8, Vifa XT25's and a JL 600/4 installed in my newly aquired 2011 GTI. It is a long story, that some of you might be familiar with. To sum it up for the sake of this review, the installer did a hack job. And by hack I mean he literally hacked apart my door's sub frames and broke both my front windows to the extent of $1000 to get them repaired. 

Scott of Hybrid found out about my experiance and contacted me with an offer to trade in the L6's for some L6se carbons at a price I couldn't refuse to make up for my dilemma. I can not put into words how appreciative I am for this and would of most likely scrapped my whole build if it was not for him stepping in. 

Since the L6v1 are the most recent speaker I have heard other then these carbon's I will use them as a reference point. The L6v1 were the cleanest sounding speakers I had ever listened to. My only complaint, and I am assuming this is due to the paper cones and my personal preference, where that they were to "flat" sounding. I always wished that they had a little more attitude. Not sure if that makes any sense. 

When I listened to the L6se carbon's, the first thing I noticed is they had exactly what the L6v1 were lacking. It is hard to explain but they sound a bit more "alive" I did have to adjust my crossover points as the Carbon's cannot dig as deep nor reach as high as the L6v1's, but the frequencies that they do produce are pure audio sex. I currently have them bandpassed 60 > 4500 with a 24 slope and it seems to be perfect for my car. 

To be con't...............


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Well, they sure do look the part. And Scott is a stand up guy.


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## dowheelies (Jan 7, 2012)

Anyone have the mounting depth etc. on these. I can't find it anywhere. 

I'd really like to try them.

Eric


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## 83corolla (Nov 5, 2009)

Wow looks really good. I have a ('regular'?) l6se I just picked up but have not installed. I only learned about HAT on this forum and how much respect the speakers get. I was going to go with the dyn 650's, but HAT gets so much love. I can't wait to hear what you think of them.


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## rynfarrell (Apr 11, 2011)

dowheelies said:


> Anyone have the mounting depth etc. on these. I can't find it anywhere.
> 
> I'd really like to try them.
> 
> Eric


I will send you the spec sheet when i get back in town tomorrow. and hopefully add some to my review. these speakers are sick.


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## Sound Suggestions (Dec 5, 2010)

rynfarrell said:


> I will send you the spec sheet when i get back in town tomorrow. and hopefully add some to my review. these speakers are sick.


I'm also interested in their measurements. I have L6SE'S and I'm afraid they won't fit under my bmw 323i seats

I would be interested in maybe finding a way to trade for the carbons(if they fit)


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## robtr8 (Dec 6, 2011)

Go to Hybrids' website and click on the Stage VI - Legatia SE, then you will see a Carbon PDF tab.


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## dowheelies (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks Rob, they must have recently updated it. It has had the L4SE carbon info but "coming soon" on the specs for the L6SE carbon for some time.

These will easily bolt in place of my 6.5" QSD's when I'm ready to spend the dough.

Eric


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## n_olympios (Oct 23, 2008)

You'll find them IN HERE.


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## rynfarrell (Apr 11, 2011)

they beat me to it =)


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

I was just looking at the stats and the frequency plots on this driver. Man... this thing sure looks similar to my Hertz ML165 driver. Almost identical ts parameters and identical dimensions of basket. I bet it could even use the same bolt pattern in my truck. Hell, even the frequency plot looks the same - raised from about 100 Hz through to almost 500 Hz (maybe a little higher on the top end of that). I wonder if they sound similar too A very cool looking driver however I am going 8 inch at least for my next midbass.


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## dowheelies (Jan 7, 2012)

Are you referring to this driver?

http://www.soundservice.lt/uploads/File/pdf_ml165.pdf

If so, no offense but I see nothing similar in the parameters or response other than excursion. Not that it looks bad, just quite different.

Eric


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## cgm246 (Jun 27, 2011)

rynfarrell said:


> haha its all good Im a big boy. I appreciate the look out though. And I didn't pay retail, however after listening to them driving to Houston and back I wouldn't be upset if i had.
> 
> I had a bad experiance with a HAT dealer and Scott personally made it right. Which alone would get me to pay their premium in the future =)


I had a bad experience with a couple of them....lol, they were jokes to be honest and really did not seem to know much about anything in the HAT family. I have run across a few dealers, it seems they were ALL about it, or NOTHING about it.

Hopefully over time they will be dropped or educated as to the quality of customer service a well informed, educated consumer that shops HAT products expects.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

dowheelies said:


> Are you referring to this driver?
> 
> http://www.soundservice.lt/uploads/File/pdf_ml165.pdf
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure _James2266_ was refering the specs of both drivers. 
I do think that some parameters are not that far apart: 
.................... L6 Carbon .................... ML 165 
VC dia ......... 35.55 mm .................... 36 mm 
FS ................. 57Hz .......................... 59Hz
Qes ............... 0.661 .......................... 0.62 
Qts ................ 0.534 .......................... 0.54
Xmax ............ 6 mm .......................... 6 mm 
Both are 6.5" drivers
Freq response shows a small dip around 800Hz, a slight bump around 5kHz with a drop right after... 

Of course the L6 carbon is more impressive since it is much shallower. 

Kelvin


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

dowheelies said:


> Are you referring to this driver?
> 
> http://www.soundservice.lt/uploads/File/pdf_ml165.pdf
> 
> ...


Yes, that is the driver. I will have to check out that site further too. Thanks for that. I am not saying they are the same driver at all. I just noticed a few similarities between this one and mine and kind of figured it would be almost identical when it comes to impact and strict overall midbass abilities. The fs is virtually identical as well and the qts while a little lower is not world's apart.


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> I'm pretty sure _James2266_ was refering the specs of both drivers.
> I do think that some parameters are not that far apart:
> .................... L6 Carbon .................... ML 165
> VC dia ......... 35.55 mm .................... 36 mm
> ...


Yes, exactly what Kelvin is saying here and yes I agree the HAT is more impressive being alot shallower if that matters (for me it doesn't really). I might be in the market sooner than I thought for a replacement midbass however as I was out tuning today and something is wrong with them. I could not get them to image at all. I have a sneaky feeling the driver's side might be damaged. It seems the output is quite a bit down on that side. I will flip the speakers tomorrow probably and see if the problem switches sides and confirms this. Sucks. I wanted to go straight to larger midbass but don't really have the cash right now. Oh well, we'll see what shakes tomorrow.


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## south east customz (Jan 17, 2011)

Sound Suggestions said:


> I'm also interested in their measurements. I have L6SE'S and I'm afraid they won't fit under my bmw 323i seats
> 
> I would be interested in maybe finding a way to trade for the carbons(if they fit)


If its an e90 they fit easy with a spacer!


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## robtr8 (Dec 6, 2011)

james2266 said:


> I was just looking at the stats and the frequency plots on this driver. Man... this thing sure looks similar to my Hertz ML165 driver. Almost identical ts parameters and identical dimensions of basket. I bet it could even use the same bolt pattern in my truck. Hell, even the frequency plot looks the same - raised from about 100 Hz through to almost 500 Hz (maybe a little higher on the top end of that). I wonder if they sound similar too A very cool looking driver however I am going 8 inch at least for my next midbass.


I believe it's stated in the product literature that the L6SE Carbons were specifically designed to provide HAT with a "standard" basket diameter and shallower motor structure to provide a driver for hard to fit applications such as European cars, or something like that.

Still waiting for OP to give his actual review, I feel guilty for thread-jacking as it is, but I'm dying to say what I think they sound like. I guaranty they sound nothing like a Hertz.


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## dowheelies (Jan 7, 2012)

Well it appears I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue! Kelvin and James not sure what the hell I was looking at LOL. I do now see the similarities.

I'll be watching for more feedback/reviews on these L6SE Carbons for sure. My first set of Hybrid drivers (L3SE from Scratch & Dent post) are on their way. If they are anywhere near as sweet sounding as I've read they will be the L6SE Carbons may be my next step.

Eric


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

Too bad they didn't have an L8SE carbon in their product line. An 8 inch midbass with a shallow enough depth that a few more people may be able to actually use them in their doors. The regular L8 and L8se are just too deep I think for me. I might have to look deeper into that however.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

james2266 said:


> Too bad they didn't have an L8SE carbon in their product line. An 8 inch midbass with a shallow enough depth that a few more people may be able to actually use them in their doors. The regular L8 and L8se are just too deep I think for me. I might have to look deeper into that however.


There's a couple 8" drivers that have a mounting depth smaller than 3.5": 
Dynaudio MW172 @ 3.07" 
Blues Car Audio BL8 @ 3.4" 
Illusion Audio Carbon C8 @ *2.2"* 
Phass has one I think 

If you can fit a 6x9, there's always the Image Dynamics X69 @ 3.5" driver that is a proven design also <-- really like that one actually... 

Kelvin


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> There's a couple 8" drivers that have a mounting depth smaller than 3.5":
> Dynaudio MW172 @ 3.07"
> Blues Car Audio BL8 @ 3.4"
> Illusion Audio Carbon C8 @ *2.2"*
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions Kelvin. A couple of those I did not know of - the Illusion 8 and a Phass 8? The ones I have been leaning toward are the Dynaudio MW182 and the Scan Discovery 8 but as usual I can`t hear either of these first. Money is kinda short after having to get a new midbass amp only a week ago. I am kind of at a few dilemmas here. Do I just find a way to get what I think I ultimately want (mw182) or just go with the Scan which is about 1/3 the cost to me and I can get in Canada too. OR should I just stick with another 6 inch that will drop right in. I wouldn't have to pay the likely $200 or so to get the doors cut up for an 8 but that would likely be a temporary measure as I'm kind of realizing that I am not going to be happy with any 6 inch for midbass. It's also difficult as I have yet to ever hear a vehicle with non factory 8 inch midbasses.

Anyways, I will look into that Illusion 8 a little closer. How do they all compare if you have heard them all? Please PM me that so we don't derail this thread too much. Thanks again.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

james2266 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions Kelvin. A couple of those I did not know of - the Illusion 8 and a Phass 8? The ones I have been leaning toward are the Dynaudio MW182 and the Scan Discovery 8 but as usual I can`t hear either of these first. Money is kinda short after having to get a new midbass amp only a week ago. I am kind of at a few dilemmas here. Do I just find a way to get what I think I ultimately want (mw182) or just go with the Scan which is about 1/3 the cost to me and I can get in Canada too. OR should I just stick with another 6 inch that will drop right in. I wouldn't have to pay the likely $200 or so to get the doors cut up for an 8 but that would likely be a temporary measure as I'm kind of realizing that I am not going to be happy with any 6 inch for midbass. It's also difficult as I have yet to ever hear a vehicle with non factory 8 inch midbasses.
> 
> Anyways, I will look into that Illusion 8 a little closer. How do they all compare if you have heard them all? Please PM me that so we don't derail this thread too much. Thanks again.


What about the ID X69? Would it be able to fit in your opening with some homemade spacers? Might be an alternative without having to cut up your doors while still have the cone area of an 8" driver. I heard those with 2 x IDmax 12" and they are no slouch when it comes to dynamics - can't be crossed much lower than 63Hz though but with some tuning... who knows 

Kelvin


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

subwoofery said:


> What about the ID X69? Would it be able to fit in your opening with some homemade spacers? Might be an alternative without having to cut up your doors while still have the cone area of an 8" driver. I heard those with 2 x IDmax 12" and they are no slouch when it comes to dynamics - can't be crossed much lower than 63Hz though but with some tuning... who knows
> 
> Kelvin


Not a big fan of 6x9s and I think they would require at least as much work as 8s in my vehicle anyways. Thanks for the suggestion. Yet another speaker set I have no way of hearing.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

james2266 said:


> Not a big fan of 6x9s and I think they would require at least as much work as 8s in my vehicle anyways. Thanks for the suggestion. Yet another speaker set I have no way of hearing.


Not a big fan of 6x9 coz you haven't heard a good one that isn't a coaxial  

Kelvin


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## james2266 (Sep 24, 2009)

Yeah, I guess that could be true too. I do think that I would have to do some serious chopping anyways. Sonic says the top mount depth is 3 and 5/8 inches tho too which could cause more issues for me.


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## markland556 (Dec 2, 2008)

Id love to pick up a set of these


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## jnads87 (Jan 5, 2012)

Wheres the review? Wanted to heart your impression on these.


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## 04silverz (May 28, 2008)

friction said:


> Nice looking speaker  I bet they will sound great.From the looks of it they apply a neo magnet
> 
> They do resemble my AP Replica series (Carbon Cone) but these implement a ferrite magnet and a phase plug


no dog in the fight but other than being carbon fiber how are they similar? different motor/magnet and different surround are glaring differences off the bat. plus the phase plug...


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## Egstewa (Sep 13, 2011)

Hey rynfarrell still have these Legatia L2x Vertically-Biamplified Passive Crossover let me know thanks, Eric


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## Egstewa (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks


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