# your thoughts on Pioneer's Shallow subwoofer



## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

in particular this:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Ajz72RHYxkW/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=130TSS2541

so what are your feelings on these? can a sub this shallow actually be capable of a standard 10" subwoofer?


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## honfatboy (Jul 4, 2005)

Have you seen Earthquake's sub? It got good reviews in roadgear. Read the comments at the end about the tradeoffs shallow subs make.

http://www.roadgearmag.com/article.asp?section_id=13&article_id=597&page_number=1


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

well guys I had a chance to test out the 10" pioneer shallow air suspension sub and I must say; it is a VERY CAPABLE SUB. It definitely puts my two 6.5" JL 6w0's to shame even in a ported box.

Looks like I'm starting a new project.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

Well I did to 12" shallow pioneer in a supra last week. I are pretty good for the price. I will get pictures of the install soon.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

I looked into that sub for an install I'm doing in my father's truck. The price was kind of high for its power handling and output (nearly twice the price of your average 250w subwoofer). Keep in mind that it still needs an average sized box for a 10" sub. Crutchfield's site says it will work with .35-.70 but I'm pretty sure you will be suffocating it in a .35cuft enclosure. So the only way I could see paying the price for it would be if you absolutely needed the shallow mounting depth and using multiple smaller drivers was not going to cut it for you. I found a few people on truck forums that weren't impressed with them but I never listened to it myself. They claimed it didn't have enough low end and the price didn't justify its usefullness.


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## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

I'm still waiting on npdang's review of that slimline 10" from AE.....


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> I looked into that sub for an install I'm doing in my father's truck. The price was kind of high for its power handling and output (nearly twice the price of your average 250w subwoofer). Keep in mind that it still needs an average sized box for a 10" sub. Crutchfield's site says it will work with .35-.70 but I'm pretty sure you will be suffocating it in a .35cuft enclosure. So the only way I could see paying the price for it would be if you absolutely needed the shallow mounting depth and using multiple smaller drivers was not going to cut it for you. I found a few people on truck forums that weren't impressed with them but I never listened to it myself. They claimed it didn't have enough low end and the price didn't justify its usefullness.


these new pioneer's are different from their older 12" shallow model. 

what kind of prices are you lookin at ?

the 10" and 12" go for about 100 bucks shipped. they are actually very well priced and quality is top notch. 

I tried a 10" in a 0.75 sealed box and there was plenty of low end and output. Personally, I think a single 10" or 12" in a truck cabin or sedan cabin is loud enough. 

I also tried the 10" (in the same box) and threw it in the trunk of my car, it ws NOT as loud as my JL 10" w6v2 but just as loud as my budget standard 10"pioneer 250rms sub. The low end was definitely there.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Where do they go for $100 shipped? eBay? I like to compare apples with apples. Everything can be had cheaper by seeking out eBay deals or unauthorized vendors. So when comparing prices, I only use authorized dealers as a reference.

From Crutchfield:
Pioneer TS-SW2541D: $179 (250w RMS)
Alpine SWE-1042: $89 (250w RMS)
MTX T4510-04: $89 (225w RMS)
Infinity Ref 1050w: $89 (250w RMS)

So as I was saying. You pay twice as much for a shallow sub if you look at power handling specs. If I had a budget and was only looking to power a single 250w subwoofer in my car or truck, I would try my best to fit a subwoofer that cost half as much. If I couldn't do it, then I'd have to either drop down to a smaller sub (2 8" subs would be more cone area than the Pioneer 10") or dish out the cash for the shallow sub.

Don't get me wrong, I think a shallow sub is a great product but it has its limitations and unless you absolutely positively need it, I would try to find something else. It has a very specific purpose and most people can get by with something different. People have been fitting subs under and behind single cab pickup seats long before this came out...so the market for it is pretty small. I would, however, like to see someone install these in a front door.


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## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

I just did some research on this new model and it looks improved over the last one, found easily online for $120 or so, uses an M-surround too.........I'd be very interested in finding out some more info and specs on these also.......


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

xencloud said:


> I'm still waiting on npdang's review of that slimline 10" from AE.....


Here 

Leo


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## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

^no subjective comments though  

That's what i'm looking for...


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

you can get the 10" on ebay for 80 bucks and for 179 bucks at crutchfield so PRICE IS A NON ISSUE. 

what do you mean "apples to apples" ? shall we call it comparing "green apples to red apples" ? are you on some sort of drug ?

these subs were enginereed and r&d's by pioneer to be fully legit subwoofers in a shallow package. It's not like Pioneer ordered a bunch of so called "shallow" subs from china and slapped their name on it.








chuyler1 said:


> Where do they go for $100 shipped? eBay? I like to compare apples with apples. Everything can be had cheaper by seeking out eBay deals or unauthorized vendors. So when comparing prices, I only use authorized dealers as a reference.
> 
> From Crutchfield:
> Pioneer TS-SW2541D: $179 (250w RMS)
> ...


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Yes, and the subs I suggested can be had for $10-20 on eBay. So if you are hell bent on buying from eBay there are still better deals if you can get by with a deeper sub...and if you want to talk retail prices, they cost twice as much as equivalent subs.

I know that pioneer engineered them. They look real sweet. But for the price, you better really need them. That's all I'm saying.


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> Yes, and the subs I suggested can be had for $10-20 on eBay. So if you are hell bent on buying from eBay there are still better deals if you can get by with a deeper sub...and if you want to talk retail prices, they cost twice as much as equivalent subs.
> 
> I know that pioneer engineered them. They look real sweet. But for the price, you better really need them. That's all I'm saying.


you CAN'T get the subs you mentioned for 10 -15 bucks on ebay.

(again, are u sure you not on drugs?) 

Alpine SWE-1042: $89 (250w RMS)
MTX T4510-04: $89 (225w RMS)
Infinity Ref 1050w: $89 (250w RMS)


the subs u mentioned above go for 40-70 dollars on ebay. 

Why do u keep mentioning price when price is a non issue ?


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

This is a DIY forum. How can price be a non-issue. Everyone has a limit. If there were no limits, you could just hack into the back of your vehicle and make room for a pair of 15"s and pay an installer to do it all for you. But people are here to get the best sound without spending too much...at least that's why I come here.

I searched eBay for Alpine SWE-1042 and the highest auction I saw was at $24.99. Granted none of those have ended yet but if they go for $35 they'd still be half the price of the Pioneer. But with eBay, you don't get the manufacturer's warranty. With a new sub that has a new technology, I would think having some sort of warranty would be important. Sure those eBay vendors offer their own warranties but it is up to their own discretion whether they send you a new one when yours breaks.


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## Kris (May 23, 2006)

Here-I-Come said:


> Well I did to 12" shallow pioneer in a supra last week. I are pretty good for the price. I will get pictures of the install soon.


Please do -- I'm looking for a decent compact sub for my Supra, and was planning to use a couple of MPyre 65x -- this might be a better alternative?

Cheers;


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## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> This is a DIY forum. How can price be a non-issue. Everyone has a limit. QUOTE]
> 
> What I think he is saying is that the price of that Pio sub is a non-issue for him.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Ok, fine with me...but he wanted opinions so I gave mine. No need to fight about it.


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> This is a DIY forum. How can price be a non-issue. Everyone has a limit. If there were no limits, you could just hack into the back of your vehicle and make room for a pair of 15"s and pay an installer to do it all for you. But people are here to get the best sound without spending too much...at least that's why I come here.
> 
> I searched eBay for Alpine SWE-1042 and the highest auction I saw was at $24.99. Granted none of those have ended yet but if they go for $35 they'd still be half the price of the Pioneer. But with eBay, you don't get the manufacturer's warranty. With a new sub that has a new technology, I would think having some sort of warranty would be important. Sure those eBay vendors offer their own warranties but it is up to their own discretion whether they send you a new one when yours breaks.


your comparing a bunch of USED ALPINE swe 1042's now.

are u sure your not on something ? at least zanax ? 

let's compare new to new.

personally I think the shallow pioneer sub is a steal especially comparing to it's siblings such as the blaupunkt, earthquake's and phase linear's.


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

Kris said:


> Please do -- I'm looking for a decent compact sub for my Supra, and was planning to use a couple of MPyre 65x -- this might be a better alternative?
> 
> Cheers;


hello kris

don't do the 6.5" sub pair's, I've done it and is OK but won't hit without limitations. 

go for the pioneer's, don't let the shallow size fool you ; they are 100 percent legit subwoofers.


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## gabe8501 (Jan 24, 2006)

mikemareen said:


> are u sure your not on something ? at least zanax ?


You seem to be awfully concerned with whether or not this man is on drugs or not...


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

gabe8501 said:


> You seem to be awfully concerned with whether or not this man is on drugs or not...


he is acting like it.

I don't know how anyone can claim a new technology subwoofer with a price tag of 80 dollars NEW to be over-priced.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

gabe8501 said:


> You seem to be awfully concerned with whether or not this man is on drugs or not...



I took a multi-vitamin this morning... Can I join in  

Chad


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

I compared retail prices with retail prices...but apparently eBay is all that matters to you. So I took a quick glance at eBay prices and saw they were still lower than than the price of the Pioneer shallow sub. Now matter how you throw the dice, this sub is roughly twice as expensive as equivalent power handling traditional subs. So if you can find a way to squeeze in 2-3" of additional mounting depth...you can save money.

I'm pretty sure that pioneer designed this sub with "shallow" in mind instead of "great SQ". If corners had to be cut in the SQ department to get the sub under 3" deep then I'm sure they cut those corners. However, their motor system looks pretty sweet and I think it will do a good job keeping up with traditional subs as long as you are willing to pay a little more.

And as I said before, your box volume will not be less so you have to make up for the lack of depth, with some width and length.


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## gabe8501 (Jan 24, 2006)

chad said:


> I took a multi-vitamin this morning... Can I join in
> 
> Chad


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## Kris (May 23, 2006)

mikemareen said:


> hello kris
> 
> don't do the 6.5" sub pair's, I've done it and is OK but won't hit without limitations.


Well, since the 65x I mentioned is not yet available, I'd imagine you're talking about some other product? Besides, my comparison point is SQ - not how well they loosen my fillings


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## mikemareen (Apr 20, 2006)

Kris said:


> Well, since the 65x I mentioned is not yet available, I'd imagine you're talking about some other product? Besides, my comparison point is SQ - not how well they loosen my fillings


to me it sounded really good but IMO SQ of a subwoofer is mainly dependent on enclosure choise and installation-implementation.

you can make a moderate-entry level subwoofer sound excellent with proper enclosure and installation.

you can make a very expensive subwoofer sound like crap with improper enclosure and installation-implementation.


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## ATB (Aug 30, 2005)

No one outside of Adire, Mpyre Audio, or the one guy in London with a Miata who was sent 2 pre-production models has yet gotten their hands on a 65x. 

True, it is basically a 7" cone, but it does has 14mm of Kipel verified xmax* and 23mm xmech. Compare this to the -11mm to +7mm Xmag, Xsus ~12mm 1 way of the EU-700 that was tested here.



*This is only a claim by the manufacturer, but I don't think Adire is well known for fudging numbers like these.


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## 300Z (Mar 20, 2005)

ATB said:


> True, it is basically a 7" cone, but it does has 14mm of Kipel verified xmax* and 23mm xmech.


Verified by who?  

Leo


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