# What happened to the people that used raw drivers?



## Jroo (May 24, 2006)

Over the last one or two years, I have seen a major shift in the equipment mainly speakers. When I first joined this site a few years back, literally everyone used raw drivers. I remember having to google and research half the drivers people used in their installs because I had never heard of them before. It seems like now, most use commercially available car audio specific drivers. When you see installs or reviews all you see are people that use or talk about is JL, HAT, Focal, Hertz etc. Are their actual people on here that use raw drivers anymore? Not that the selection is wrong, it is greatly different than what was used on here a few years back.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

The biggest challange on using raw drivers is, you can't get it right easily....
I'm using raw drivers now, so I know the pain....


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## alm001 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've seen that same change, and in the same time I have moved toward raw drivers.
Right now my setup is all Dayton.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I have been using different raw drivers in my car over the years.


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## analogrocker (Aug 1, 2009)

I try to use raw drivers whenever possible. For subwoofers, I usually do use the car audio targeted ones, though.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

The focus & demographics of this site has expanded, and thus we see a greater frequency of topics regarding pre-fab sets than we used to. There are still plenty of DIY enthusiasts here that use raw drivers, but there just hasn't been much new on that front to get excited about lately, and most of the known territory has been covered already...


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## damonryoung (Mar 23, 2012)

alm001 said:


> I've seen that same change, and in the same time I have moved toward raw drivers.
> Right now my setup is all Dayton.


The setup I am planning out now is all Dayton... How do you like your setup?

D


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

Us raw-driver people are still here, but the site focus has changed since it went commercial.


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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

benny said:


> Us raw-driver people are still here, but the site focus has changed since it went commercial.


I second that. All raw drivers, all active here.


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## WhippingBoy (Dec 21, 2010)

I still use raw drivers, all active. I, too, have noticed the shift and believe Chaos and the others are correct. Too bad in some ways. Some of the best speakers out there aren't marketed to car audio and can be had for a decent price.

I've really noticed a big increase in Dynaudio users. I'm still surprised that more people don't talk about the Zaph 5" midwoofer - the best midwoofer out there in it's price range. Fantastic at high volumes.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

I feel the mainstream, commercial movement of this site contributed to the demise of the DIY spirit, but that's just my personal opinion. 

Even I have a couple of commercial component sets available for use in my vehicle as opposed to the trial and error process of picking out raw drivers. It would seem that the philosophy of picking out less expensive raw drivers, using active crossovers, and all that fun stuff was even lost on me.  Then again, any savings is usually negated by the constant swapping of raw drivers, so it kind of makes the point moot unless you happen to get lucky and get it right the first time.


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## WhippingBoy (Dec 21, 2010)

I see guys posting speaker sets on this site for sale at used costs like $500 or more. To each his own but, damn, I could buy a badass set of drivers for $500! My speakers right now cost less than $400, incl. subwoofer. The law of diminishing returns definitely gets factored into my decisions/selections!


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm basically using raw drivers in my frontstage. They're just marketed to the car environment. What you have to realize is most raw drivers are made to be in an enclosure so just throwing them in a well prepped door will give less than satisfactory results when it comes to midbass unless you get lucky. Tonality will be there but without some beef to back it up what good is it? I used to swap raw drivers more than I changed drawers. Those days are over. I've found what works and am sticking with it. The other thing that has brought my driver swapping to a screeching hault is a saying by our own DIYMA founder npdang. *A speaker is only as good as the room you put it in.*Truth be told a car is the WORST room you could possibly put a speaker in.


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## analogrocker (Aug 1, 2009)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> What you have to realize is most raw drivers are made to be in an enclosure so just throwing them in a well prepped door will give less than satisfactory results when it comes to midbass unless you get lucky.


That's the hard truth right there. That's why a basic understanding of T/S parameters and how they all affect one another comes in handy.

But there will be those who claim that EQ can make any driver work in a car door. While this may be true, I'd rather have a driver that works right out of the box by making sure I choose the one with the suitable T/S parameters. Why add EQ/processing if you don't have to, right?


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

I think there are many levels of DIY.

Be it full raw drivers in an active setup, or pre packaged marketed car drivers. I think the DIY spirit is there, just different. No matter what you use, people are taking the design, equipment selection, and install into their own hands. 

That's DIY.

I think anytime you take it upon yourself, your working within the spirit of the site. Granted, raw drivers and the experimentation that goes with implementing them, is a higher level of DIY. Adding subs an an amp is too, just more of a "entry level DIY ". 

Not everyone has the knowledge to dive headlong into a full raw driver build, with optimized locations, and installation. That's were, hopefully, learning and trying stuff out moves you further into the DIY scene.


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## alm001 (Feb 13, 2010)

DRTHJTA said:


> The setup I am planning out now is all Dayton... How do you like your setup?
> 
> D


I like it a lot, it is an unconventional setup (partial array). The only shortcoming is because of my midbass size restriction.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

My entire three way front stage are raw drivers. All scan speak. 

Lots of good reasons given already for the apparent decline in use.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Mine are all raw drivers... Dynaudio all purchased at different times. No crossovers. I guess that makes them raw drivers...


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

Well, I just made the dive into the raw driver territory about two months ago and ended up swapping three different sets of tweets before i settled on the vifa's that i have now.
But knowing what t/s specs to look for has been a MAJOR help. 
As soon as the dayton rs 180's get in stock at PE i will be changing out the ID's that i have now.
Gonna try them with these Madisound Speaker Store. 
I'm using them now with the ID's crossed at 2500. So i couldnt imagine them not working with the daytons.


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

I have raw drivers I purchased by themselves, ones geared towards car audio and others.


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

Running raw drivers in a full-active setup is what rekindled my love affair w/car audio about 6 years ago.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Im not using raw drivers because I simplified to passive crossovers.


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## Richv72 (May 11, 2012)

component sets are so good now whats the point in having raw drivers anymore?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Richv72 said:


> component sets are so good now whats the point in having raw drivers anymore?


I think you just started a war lol.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

I use all raw drivers. I enjoy looking at their T/S parameters & FR graphs to get a better understanding of what they're capable of, instead of wondering what a particular car audio speaker does without any specs or graphs to go off of. There's a few car audio companies that publish full specs & graphs, but not many.


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## jimmybee1108 (Apr 26, 2011)

I had a feeling that some people used raw drivers in a kind of hipster mindset. e.g. "oh u got some focals, well I have this brand called blah blah, never heard of it? Poor u"

But I also admit that a lot of people do it purely for the audiogasm they can experience. I kno in a beginner by all means, and have fully installed one system my entire life, but this site has been like school to me. I've learned so much. 

Admittedly tho, I would go all car audio gear. Because I go to some local meets in san Antonio, and I kno the people are more interested in the names than the actual sound. "to dawg I slammed these killer kicker subs in my trunk and threw the wires together to my boss amp that says 1000watts. So that's like 3000 right!?" (actual convo with someone) 
So to actually get a name and popularity up, I'll showcase brands in car audio. To the simple minded. 

I'm done


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## thomasluke (Jun 10, 2011)

Richv72 said:


> component sets are so good now whats the point in having raw drivers anymore?


Yes, some of them are. But MOST of them are not. For the draw to the raw drivers is the amount of money they cost vs a pre assembled comp sets.
While they may be proven to work well as a set with a little knowledge and know how you can your dollar go alot farther.


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## jcollin76 (Oct 26, 2010)

It also makes it a little easier to look at car marketed stuff, when it's designed to work how most will use them. 

Knowing that they are made for IB (door/deck) installs, with good off axis response, and typically more robust/ weather resistant materials is nice.

Combine this with ditching the passive, and going active, you get the best of both worlds. 

I wouldn't hesitate using either raw, or car audio drivers. Just depends on my needs for the install, and what I'm looking for. I've been running a mix, but more car audio stuff lately. But, now I'm looking very hard at pro audio stuff, and horns. Lol


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

WhippingBoy said:


> I've really noticed a big increase in Dynaudio users. I'm still surprised that more people don't talk about the Zaph 5" midwoofer - the best midwoofer out there in it's price range. Fantastic at high volumes.



i really was considering this driver because i am limited on most 6-7 inch drivers because of depth.

do you think maybe with a set of tweeters that could play lower i could get by with this..i know i would need one hell of a sub too


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

fish said:


> I use all raw drivers. I enjoy looking at their T/S parameters & FR graphs to get a better understanding of what they're capable of, instead of wondering what a particular car audio speaker does without any specs or graphs to go off of. There's a few car audio companies that publish full specs & graphs, but not many.



exactly!

shameless plug:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...2036-contribute-funds-bikinpunks-klippel.html


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

legend94 said:


> i really was considering this driver because i am limited on most 6-7 inch drivers because of depth.
> 
> do you think maybe with a set of tweeters that could play lower i could get by with this..i know i would need one hell of a sub too


here you go: Madisound Speaker Store

i dont see a 5.250" component set getting much better than this without at least doubling the cash outlay.


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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

I cooked my raw drivers. They are now medium rare....delicious.


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

all raw drivers here as well. i actually like to bargain-hunt for used drivers or buyouts. i think it makes the install more interesting. right now im running dayton, morel, vifa and seas all active from my 363 when it arrives.


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

legend94 said:


> i really was considering this driver because i am limited on most 6-7 inch drivers because of depth.
> 
> do you think maybe with a set of tweeters that could play lower i could get by with this..i know i would need one hell of a sub too


I haven't looked at the Zaph 5" in a while, but you should be able to get away with a higher crossover point because beaming will begin higher in frequency.


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

wheelieking71 said:


> here you go: Madisound Speaker Store
> 
> i dont see a 5.250" component set getting much better than this without at least doubling the cash outlay.


Did you see the materials in the crossover? That set looks good with silk seas instead if aluminum!


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## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

fish said:


> I haven't looked at the Zaph 5" in a while, but you should be able to get away with a higher crossover point because beaming will begin higher in frequency.


I researched them more and you appear to be correct. They look damn well built for the money. Did he make them 5.25 more for the home audio side?


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## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

benny said:


> Us raw-driver people are still here, but the site focus has changed since it went commercial.


I think the site direction is a factor but not most of it. I see the current trend of this site leaning more towards the best bang for the buck regardless of who made the drivers. 


For me I don't use raw drivers since the better ones are out of my price range. I have $200 tops in my current front stage with "brand" name drivers because it gives me the best sound for my budget. Some of raw drivers that work well in the lesser price range are not as install friendly for me.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

all raw drivers here (besides subs?)









Vifa XT25 tweets









fatialPRO 4FE30









exodus anarchy 6.5

all active. personally i find it more rewarding to keep my speakers budget low, and do impressive things than to spend a **** load of money on expensive speakers that dont perform any better.

id rather spend that money on a nice DSP.


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## AccordUno (Aug 7, 2009)

I use raw drivers, but of course they are from a company that makes both pro and car audio drivers and available from maybe a handful of sources. Sure I would like to use there high end component set, but my install ideas does not allow for me to go that route. 

I have always used raw drivers per se in my cars. Just that they are common brands these days minus Beyma (hopefully I can assist in changing that)


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## BoomHz (Apr 20, 2007)

I love using raw drivers, I just hate my options as far as purchasing. Parts and madison rape me on shipping. Plus I wish I had other options for purchasing besides those two.

But I have one vehicle raw drivers (peerless/ tang) and the other DYNs. Both active......... all in the install


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

BoomHz said:


> I love using raw drivers, I just hate my options as far as purchasing. Parts and madison rape me on shipping. Plus I wish I had other options for purchasing besides those two.
> 
> But I have one vehicle raw drivers (peerless/ tang) and the other DYNs. Both active......... all in the install


What's wrong with the Dyns?


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## BoomHz (Apr 20, 2007)

Oh there's absolutely nothin wrong with my DYNs..........the sarcasim was mostly pointed at this being a post on Raw drivers.

My dyns are three way, my raws are two. Stuck with the two way because of the holy high options on fullrange transducers, there's so much to see and play with...............price permitting!!



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## Spyke (Apr 20, 2012)

req said:


> personally i find it more rewarding to keep my speakers budget low, and do impressive things than to spend a **** load of money on expensive speakers that dont perform any better.
> 
> *id rather spend that money on a nice DSP.*


Exactly. I think we had the expensive vs average speaker discussion already. A $200 driver will perform about the same as a $50 driver and will require just as much work to make it sound good. And really it's a crap shoot anyway, you may prefer a cheap driver to an expensive one.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Spyke said:


> Exactly. I think we had the expensive vs average speaker discussion already. A $200 driver will perform about the same as a $50 driver and will require just as much work to make it sound good. And really it's a crap shoot anyway, you may prefer a cheap driver to an expensive one.


I think that's more of an opinion. I would rather start off with a driver with an extremely flat FR like the Dyn 430, requiring less work to make it sound good. What you also get for the price is an awesome natural sounding driver that will play 200hz with ease, have very low distortion, good excursion, handle a ton of power, and never lose it's composure. The ultra small enclosure requirements or even IB option is nice as well. 

I agree that some cheap drivers perform as well as some expensive drivers, maybe you could even say many cheap drivers perform as well as expensive drivers, but you can't say "A $200 driver will perform about the same as a $50 driver and will require just as much work to make it sound good." That's a blanket statement. I bet anyone could get the 430 to sound good easier than most other speakers due to ease of install and flat FR. 

As far as the sound that people like, is it coincidence that the two most expensive speakers won the blind midrange shootout by a significant margin? After reading the results I would never say all expensive speakers sound better than cheaper speakers but I think the odds are more in your favor with the more expensive drivers.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

BoomHz said:


> Oh there's absolutely nothin wrong with my DYNs..........the sarcasim was mostly pointed at this being a post on Raw drivers.
> 
> My dyns are three way, my raws are two. Stuck with the two way because of the holy high options on fullrange transducers, there's so much to see and play with...............price permitting!!
> 
> ...


I was being a little sarcastic when I mentioned my Dyns as being raw drivers. I mean, I think the Esotars fit the definition even though they're designed for automotive use but I figured someone would have something to say about that. I'm wondering where you draw the line. I bought an Esotec 342 set which I loved. Then I bought the Esotar 430 and 650 with only the 102 tweeter remaining from the original 342 set. Now I added the 182 10" in place of the 650 that were never a part of a kit or comp set. in fact, none of my speakers were ever sold together. Do mine fit the definition or raw drivers or do we only consider home speakers as raw?


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

All Tymphany(Peerless,Vifa) set-up, with AE IB subs, here.


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