# Check this sick CarPC power supply out..



## Wy2quiet (Jun 29, 2010)

For the money, seems like a great deal. 

Right now I am running a Kenwood HD942u. I am seriously considering just switching to a Car PC setup, on a budget. This way I can run an active front and hold all my music on an internal HDD. Couple questions;

M4-ATX, intelligent ATX automotive power supply, 6/30V - power your PC in a car.

Is this viable? I realize you don't need an UBER fast PC for processing, and right now im running a C2D overclocked with a 9600gt on a 380w PSU (which has been running for 3 years) so I figure a mobo with a little ram and onboard video would not need more than 250w.

2nd thing is, has anyone done this in Canada. The reason I ask this, is I have days where the temperature reaches -40*C, and I don't want my parts damaged. Anyways, thanks in advance.

Matthew


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## getonerd (Jul 24, 2007)

check out mp3car.com 
the carpc site


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Wy2quiet said:


> For the money, seems like a great deal.
> 
> Right now I am running a Kenwood HD942u. I am seriously considering just switching to a Car PC setup, on a budget. This way I can run an active front and hold all my music on an internal HDD. Couple questions;
> 
> ...


Choose wisely, and you can get away with a much smaller computer in the car. There are lots of reasons to aim for more efficiency in the car than in the home.

BTW, I've used the M1-ATX, but not the M4-ATX. Presently, I use the Carnetix P1900.



> 2nd thing is, has anyone done this in Canada. The reason I ask this, is I have days where the temperature reaches -40*C, and I don't want my parts damaged. Anyways, thanks in advance.
> 
> Matthew


Yeah, cold weather is a *****. For two reasons:
1) AMD CPUs are often coldbugged. They stop working below about 25F-30F. Use Intel in the car.
2) Hard drives don't like cold weather. I've found that they begin having trouble at around 15-20F. You have to heat them up (by letting them spin for a few minutes). Fortunately, it's rarely that cold here (upstate NY), so I don't run into problems often. You can, however, consider solid state hard drives which have a number of other benefits in the car too. Or, try removable hard drives and take it in with you at night. PITA though.


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## Dakota548ci (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks for the PS info. Thinking about going the PC route myself.


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## zreon (Jul 29, 2011)

Definitely don't need a powerful pc for the car. I had a old mobo/cpu combo board that was like $45 on newegg that was able to run centrafuse and iguidance with no problems. Probably would have needed more power if I was watching HD content, but never tried. The power supply you mentioned is what I used actually. Very nice little piece of hardware.


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## Texast (Jan 1, 2012)

Nice!


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

you should look up my carputer build log, this is the power supply i'm running and you can see what i am powering which will surprise you because its a beast of a machine.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

just thought i'd post it for ya, i got bored. 


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-pc-forum/117855-silver-bullet-carputer-build.html

you can see, i'm running a 100 watt CPU (120 really pushing it) with 2 drives, an ssd, a hdd, a dvd drive, and the pcie to pci adapter which is another 5-10 watts for the sound card for internal processing.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

zreon said:


> Definitely don't need a powerful pc for the car. I had a old mobo/cpu combo board that was like $45 on newegg that was able to run centrafuse and iguidance with no problems. Probably would have needed more power if I was watching HD content, but never tried. The power supply you mentioned is what I used actually. Very nice little piece of hardware.


[I know this is an old post, but I'll reply in case it helps others decide what route to take...]

Actually, you generally don't need much in terms of hardware for HD playback. You can play back 1080p with a 700MHz machine running a video card that was made some time this century.  

Certain applications could require pretty intense CPU usage. VST plugins can, depending on their complexity. Although the hope is that more in the future start being developed using the GPU...

Anyway, it ALL depends on your application. Before deciding what hardware to buy, determine exactly what software you want to use and it will make your life much easier.


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## LGHT_ (Jan 12, 2011)

MarkZ said:


> Certain applications could require pretty intense CPU usage. VST plugins can, depending on their complexity. Although the hope is that more in the future start being developed using the GPU...


I decided to go with a 2.4 core 2 quad so I can run VST plugins, OBD, GPS, Voice recognition, and ridge runner front end.

I may yeah you can get away with just playing music, but if your going to bother with a carputer why not toss in some bells and whistles


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

LGHT_ said:


> I decided to go with a 2.4 core 2 quad so I can run VST plugins, OBD, GPS, Voice recognition, and ridge runner front end.
> 
> I may yeah you can get away with just playing music, but if your going to bother with a carputer why not toss in some bells and whistles


Yeah, that's what I meant by identifying what software you're going to use before deciding on hardware. If someone is just going to use it as an audio and video player and for GPS, then hell, you could use the ARM processor in your phone (in fact, there are current projects, like the raspberry pi, doing exactly that!). 

But none of those things on your list _except_ VST plugins require heavy CPU usage (don't know about that front end though). Even VST doesn't require that much ... my carPC also has a dual core 2.4GHz, and my VSTs only consume about 30% CPU -- this is with 7 channels of filtering, delay, phase, mixing, and 2 channels of LFE enhancement AND it's all doing it at 88.2kHz.


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## LGHT_ (Jan 12, 2011)

MarkZ said:


> But none of those things on your list _except_ VST plugins require heavy CPU usage (don't know about that front end though). Even VST doesn't require that much ... my carPC also has a dual core 2.4GHz, and my VSTs only consume about 30% CPU -- this is with 7 channels of filtering, delay, phase, mixing, and 2 channels of LFE enhancement AND it's all doing it at 88.2kHz.


I read that GPS software uses a lot of CPU and people complained about "lagging" with the some of the lower end processors when they had other software running in the background. 

On a side note what MOBO did you use?? I have an old HTPC computer that i'm gonna use the case from. It's an ATX cube case.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

FWIW, I have a 3Ghz desktop Core 2 Duo running fine on an M2 ATX. Just make sure you match your draw to be within the threshold of your system.


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## Hdale85 (Jan 21, 2012)

I'm going to use the M4-ATX with my AM3 micro-atx board and a 45w Phenom II quad core. I'm going to run multiple zones though.


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## LGHT_ (Jan 12, 2011)

kenikh said:


> FWIW, I have a 3Ghz desktop Core 2 Duo running fine on an M2 ATX. Just make sure you match your draw to be within the threshold of your system.


I'm thinking about getting an M4, but noticed i'm on the verge of tapping out my PSU and if I do I won't be able to add any other options like rear view, VOX, external wifi antenna etc.

Voltage usage
Mobo 40 
CPU 100
HD 5
DVD 5
Sound card 10
Ext 7" screen 10
HD radio 10
GPS 10
Diag 10
misc 10

220 watts Max

What do people do who want to add a lot more options and use a lot more power?


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## LGHT_ (Jan 12, 2011)

kenikh said:


> FWIW, I have a 3Ghz desktop Core 2 Duo running fine on an M2 ATX. Just make sure you match your draw to be within the threshold of your system.


I'm thinking about getting an M4, but noticed i'm on the verge of tapping out my PSU and if I do I won't be able to add any other options like rear view, VOX, external wifi antenna etc.

Voltage usage
Mobo 40 
CPU 100
HD 5
DVD 5
Sound card 10
Ext 7" screen 10
HD radio 10
GPS 10
Diag 10
misc 10

220 watts Max

What do people do who want to add a lot more options and use a lot more power?


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

First of all, dump the CPU. 100w CPUs are a bad choice in the car for lots of reasons. There's no reason a 45w CPU couldn't work for your application. 40w for a motherboard also seems high. Actually, a lot of the stuff on your list sounds too high. 10w for a sound card? 10w for a GPS? The USB port can only deliver ~500mA at 5v.

Another thing to consider is not using the PC power supply to power externals. Your screen, for example, can probably operate off 12v directly. Mine did for years.


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## LGHT_ (Jan 12, 2011)

MarkZ said:


> First of all, dump the CPU. 100w CPUs are a bad choice in the car for lots of reasons. There's no reason a 45w CPU couldn't work for your application. 40w for a motherboard also seems high. Actually, a lot of the stuff on your list sounds too high. 10w for a sound card? 10w for a GPS? The USB port can only deliver ~500mA at 5v.
> 
> Another thing to consider is not using the PC power supply to power externals. Your screen, for example, can probably operate off 12v directly. Mine did for years.


Thanks for the feedback. 

As far as the CPU choice it's what I have laying around and a few guys said if you setup GPS software the low voltage CPU's will lagg if you do winamp and a bunch of plugins at the same time so i'm trying to work in what I already have so I won't have to spend more. I may just try and power the screen directly also.

I called the company that makes the PSU and those where the numbers he gave me when he said you need to calculate your usage and not go over what the PSU can deliver.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

MarkZ said:


> First of all, dump the CPU. 100w CPUs are a bad choice in the car for lots of reasons. There's no reason a 45w CPU couldn't work for your application. 40w for a motherboard also seems high. Actually, a lot of the stuff on your list sounds too high. 10w for a sound card? 10w for a GPS? The USB port can only deliver ~500mA at 5v.
> 
> Another thing to consider is not using the PC power supply to power externals. Your screen, for example, can probably operate off 12v directly. Mine did for years.


yes, yes the screen will be powered from the cars radio harness of course. no reason to run that up front. didn't know usb's drew that little, than i should def be fine. but i have been testing the rig since that post. its works fantasticly, and ive been running it off an old car battery that i had in my shed for a year and a half through 2 winters, so i think i'm good. dropped the sound card though turned out to be more of a pain in the ass than i was willing to go, I didn't like how it was gonna be to tune it with a hypothedical system let alone tunning it for real in the car on a 7" screen :mean: so ima run a 3.5mm jack to rca or stright toslink into the dsp - p or something. I did not enjoy Mp3cars tech support though, they were overbearing and did not listen to my advice for what i thought was going on, avoided questions and seemd to only read my emails in parcial because they often asked questions i answered in the VERY first email to them, they also dont have a number and took an average of a day to respond to each email.

idk if the slot pulled that much power nativly for the sound card, but my assumptions were for the pci to pci-e converter i was using, which took a molax addapter would draw that or maybe i read it on the specs i forget where i got 10 watts from, probobly just a number i pulled out of my ass, forgive my ******** numbers


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

LGHT_ said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> As far as the CPU choice it's what I have laying around and a few guys said if you setup GPS software the low voltage CPU's will lagg if you do winamp and a bunch of plugins at the same time so i'm trying to work in what I already have so I won't have to spend more. I may just try and power the screen directly also.
> 
> I called the company that makes the PSU and those where the numbers he gave me when he said you need to calculate your usage and not go over what the PSU can deliver.


Sounds like he was giving you theoretical worse numbers. But even those were high, because windows will shut your USB port off if you try to draw more than 500mA (try it... it pops up with a message and everything  ).

Keep in mind that the standard for AT computers was 200w for a long time. This was with old ass inefficient equipment. The vid cards drew power back then, there were always at least two external drives -- floppy and CD, and for a while 2 CD drives was all the rage -- and at least two extra molex connectors for HDDs. **** probably drew 75w altogether. 

Never heard that bit about the low power CPUs. It doesn't make any sense. Same clock cycles.  Mine is only 45w and I run GPS and a full host of VST plugins (oversampled!) on 8 channels. My CPU usage never goes above about 35% and I don't get any GPS issues. They must be doin' it wrong.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

that's such a blanket though, some cpu's are simply more efficiant. 


oh, and mark i remember all those times lol, i never did get the whole dual dvd rom thing...it was just this whole "We can make our own cd's now" craze mostley. i still have an HP from 2000 that had dual dvd roms out of the box..good lord was that thing a heap >_< if you ask me the pentium was intels biggest flop. i think AMD was pissing alllll over them about that, than their was the pentium D which was a more efficiant CPU i think that kinda dug em out i forget what came out. i think the 775 socket and the 770i chipsets were when things reallllllllllllllly got interesting. thats around when i started getting real seriouse about computers. its so funny, we feel like we have all been doing this computer **** so long...but really ive only been building for 6 - 7 years. been playing with electronics my whole life of course  and only in the last 3 have i been trained properly in the art of computers


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

You could hear the ****ers whirring from two rooms over. That took some current to get those old drives spinning.

Anyway, yeah, huge differences in CPU efficiency. In the car, I think it's advantageous to really be efficient in this area. And avoid AMD in cold climates, as many of their CPUs are cold-bugged.


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## LGHT_ (Jan 12, 2011)

MarkZ said:


> Sounds like he was giving you theoretical worse numbers. But even those were high, because windows will shut your USB port off if you try to draw more than 500mA (try it... it pops up with a message and everything  ).


I think he was giving me the worse case numbers just so I don't over power it and send the item back.




MarkZ said:


> Keep in mind that the standard for AT computers was 200w for a long time. This was with old ass inefficient equipment. The vid cards drew power back then, there were always at least two external drives -- floppy and CD, and for a while 2 CD drives was all the rage -- and at least two extra molex connectors for HDDs. **** probably drew 75w altogether.


Yeah I think I should be fine and will probably just get the HV unit. Sadly I still have my first PC and the manufactured date was 1977 




MarkZ said:


> Never heard that bit about the low power CPUs. It doesn't make any sense. Same clock cycles.  Mine is only 45w and I run GPS and a full host of VST plugins (oversampled!) on 8 channels. My CPU usage never goes above about 35% and I don't get any GPS issues. They must be doin' it wrong.


Well I recall they where using I3's or celeron processors. What CPU where you using?


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## Hdale85 (Jan 21, 2012)

AMD Doesn't like cold climates? That's news to me. People doing extreme overclocking with liquid nitrogen on AMD platforms.....that's about as cold as you get? 

Anyways I ordered an M4-ATX and it'll be running a 95w cpu and should be fine. I used an online calculator and even with like 10 devices running OFF the computer I was at like 250 watts.


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## LGHT_ (Jan 12, 2011)

Hdale85 said:


> AMD Doesn't like cold climates? That's news to me. People doing extreme overclocking with liquid nitrogen on AMD platforms.....that's about as cold as you get?
> 
> Anyways I ordered an M4-ATX and it'll be running a 95w cpu and should be fine. I used an online calculator and even with like 10 devices running OFF the computer I was at like 250 watts.


What are your 10 devices and did you get the "High Volt" M4 or the standard?


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Hdale85 said:


> AMD Doesn't like cold climates? That's news to me. People doing extreme overclocking with liquid nitrogen on AMD platforms.....that's about as cold as you get?


They have to be careful which AMD chip they use, because some won't work below 0 C. Others won't work below about -20 C. But then there are others that are fine. It's difficult to predict, and depends on the particular release of the CPU.

There's brief mention of it in this wikipedia article, which says that starting with the Phenom II they eliminated the cold bug.

Phenom II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know this because the last two AMD chips I've used in the car were cold-bugged.  -20C coldbug is fine, but 0C coldbug is no good for the car!


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## Hdale85 (Jan 21, 2012)

I think the calculator I used just does the max 500ma per USB port, so doesn't matter. I was just trying to figure out for future stuff and most of my USB devices will be powered off separate PSU's. 

Amazon.com: M4+enclosure Fits ATX and SFX Format Beefy 250w (300w Peak) Complete Replacement for Desktop Power Supply Useful for Vehicle Pc or As Replacement for Desktop with Optional Acdc Adapter. Cooling Fan Included: Electronics

This is what I got 6-30v input.


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

MarkZ said:


> You could hear the ****ers whirring from two rooms over. That took some current to get those old drives spinning.
> 
> Anyway, yeah, huge differences in CPU efficiency. In the car, I think it's advantageous to really be efficient in this area. And avoid AMD in cold climates, as many of their CPUs are cold-bugged.


I don't like that...that means one of these days when its below 0 outside my cpu might bug out? or is that the older tech ones? because mine is one of the way newer ones, itds their APU line, so its like their second best line nest to the FX line now.


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## Hdale85 (Jan 21, 2012)

Don't think the APU line was meant to replace the phenoms, so pretty sure its FX then Phenom II then APU. Either way people over clock these CPUs with liquid nitrogen which is like 140 below zero.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

That's why all the overclocking forums talk about staying away from coldbugged CPUs. It's a big issue (or at least was, until the Phenom II).

This one tells you how to determine the stepping information on your CPU to be able to predict if it's a coldbugged one or not:

AMD Stepping Information Decoded

This one is a previous attempt at creating a database of coldbugged AMD CPUs

Those on phase no cold bug please post here

You can use the first link to identify your CPU, and the second to determine if it's coldbugged (although it's an incomplete database, I did find my last CPU on it... and yes, it failed to boot at ~0C, until it warmed up for about 30s first).


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## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

I had no idea their were so many other high end computer builders out their on this forum  so glad to see that


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