# Initial DIYMA R12 impressions:



## bass_lover1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Finally, after having the DIYMA sit here for about 3 months collecting dust, I got a wild hair up my ass, and decided to do a temp install of the driver. I had an old sealed 12" enclosure from way back when I was using a single Dayton HO 12" sub. The box is 1.3 cubic feet net, I used a block of wood to get it down to about 1.15 then factoring in the DIYMA displacement net box size is around 1.0 Cubic feet.

Initially, I wasn't too impressed, I didn't notice anything great about it, I know it's not supposed to add anything to the sound, but switching it on and off, I could not tell a difference. So I needed to fiddle with my settings a bit. I had the sub crossed at 50hz LP @ 24db, because I didn't like the sound of the HO 10s above that, though I'm sure some of you that use the HO 10s may, but I didn't. After a simple adjustment of moving the LP up to 80hz @ 24db and moving the HP of my SLS from 40hz to 50hz, I decided to take another listen.



Where did it go? I mean, I know it's there because turning the sub out off and on there is clearly a difference, but holy shnikies . I listened to a few songs of mine that I know have nice bass guitar lines, and well recorded bass drums (I listen to heavy metal, and prog rock 99% of the time). Seriously, if the musicians weren't standing on my dashboard, I really can't think of any other way to describe it. The bass never came from behind me, it was always in front and very articulate, I can't even begin to explain how excited I am about this driver.


Currently, I'm waiting on a FG mold to be mailed to me, to give the driver a proper home, so until then, no pics, but my oh my why this driver isn't used more is completely beyond me, and for the price they are selling at now everyone should have one.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Glad you're liking it. I have always been impressed by them too. You should either try moving the DIYMA LP to 100Hz @ 24db/oct or keep it at 80Hz and switch the slope to 12db/oct. Just curious as to what you would think of it there.

In my car I currently have my midbass HP @ 80Hz with a 12db slope and the DIYMA's are LP'd at 100Hz 18db slope.


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## bass_lover1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> Glad you're liking it. I have always been impressed by them too. You should either try moving the DIYMA LP to 100Hz @ 24db/oct or keep it at 80Hz and switch the slope to 12db/oct. Just curious as to what you would think of it there.
> 
> In my car I currently have my midbass HP @ 80Hz with a 12db slope and the DIYMA's are LP'd at 100Hz 18db slope.


I will have to give that a shot, I just did a quick switch of it to 80hz to see what would happen, and I was pleased with the end result, but I will give it another go with more testing.

I love midbass, like the kind that you can feel in your pant legs with the sub off, and the kind that makes using your side views difficult, so the SLS will stay @ 50hz more than likely. One thing I forgot to mention in my other post, while listening to Coheed and Cambria's The Velourium Camper I: Faint of Hearts, the bass drum has a very nice punch, that really kicks...I was adjusting the level on the sub out and as I was raising it, there was no difference in sound, it just felt like the SLSes were getting louder and louder, meaning the only difference I noticed was that the doors felt like they were buzzing more than normal, but the DIYMA didn't over power anything at all. 

I think I found my favorite sub of all time right here 

Though, I just remembered that now I have to unmount my 2.2HV and move the power taps from 4 ohm stereo to 2 ohm stereo as not to damage it....ask me how I know!!


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## Griffith (Jul 10, 2008)

Same story here. 

Originally had my Dyn MW160 play down from 40hz-3,000hz, DIYMA 40hz-down. 

Then switched to Dyn MW160 80hz-3,000hz, DIYMA 80hz-down and it sounds incredible.


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## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

Yeah, the DIYMA 12 is a great SQ sub. For the price, they are just about unbeatable. Silky smooth.


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## bass_lover1 (Dec 10, 2005)

SteveLPfreak said:


> Yeah, the DIYMA 12 is a great SQ sub. For the price, they are just about unbeatable. Silky smooth.


I'm sad that I have nowhere to go tonight, so my listening session will be limited at the moment. I sat in my car and listened for a good 20 minuets longer after writing my initial statements, and I still can't get over how good it sounds, or rather it doesn't sound


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## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

bass_lover1 said:


> I'm sad that I have nowhere to go tonight, so my listening session will be limited at the moment. I sat in my car and listened for a good 20 minuets longer after writing my initial statements, and I still can't get over how good it sounds, or rather it doesn't sound


I am guessing but I think the shorting rings may be an audible improvement (besides the excellent job Npdang did with the design). I have been listening to the SI Mag and it almost sounds as good as the DIYMA 12. Both subs have a "different" kind of sound - very smooth, soft, transparent. Both drivers have the shorting rings.

Your LP 2.2HV should be more than enough power for the DIYMA 12. I had a LP 1752S on my DIYMA 12 and it was more than enough to drive the speaker to its limits.

Interesting how two of the best sub drivers available are both custom, small quantity drivers and not mass produced like a JL Audio, etc.


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## Focalaudio (Oct 12, 2008)

How does this sub compare to IDQv2 or IDQv3?


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## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

Focalaudio said:


> How does this sub compare to IDQv2 or IDQv3?


I've used both IDQv2 and v3. I don't want to be a hater but I wasn't very impressed with either. Very run-of-the-mill to me.

If you are looking for SQ, the DIYMA 12 may be for you. Great price and the sound is different than most subs - VERY smooth, soft and transparent.

I have used a ton of subs and I think the DIYMA 12 and the SI Mag are the best sounding sub drivers I've used to date.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Focalaudio said:


> How does this sub compare to IDQv2 or IDQv3?


Either of the subs mentioned in this thread, the DIYMA R12 or the SI Mag v4, will trump the v2 or v3 IDQ's in every department. If you have weight/depth constraints, then the Mag is the clear cut favorite. Otherwise it's pretty much a toss up between the two (DIYMA R12 or Mag) IMHO.

Zach


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## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

You can get the DIYMA 12 BNIB thru Npdang on eBay for $150 shipped. You cannot find another 12" subwoofer for that price with the level of performance of the DIYMA 12.

Being a DIY forum, I'm surprised more people don't use the DIYMA 12, SI Mag, and some of the other speakers (like the CSS drivers) that aren't mainstream, have a higher priceerformance ratio.


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## Focalaudio (Oct 12, 2008)

Ok, now what is the like's and dislike's of DIYMA & SI Mag? Sorry to be a pest but I'm looking for the right sub (like we all are). LOL Also a friend of mine suggested IDMAX pointing through my ski pass hole mounted IB, what do you guys think? That sub seems very impressive by the numbers but is way too much $$$!

Thanks,
Jayson


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## UCF52 (Nov 20, 2007)

Focalaudio said:


> Ok, now what is the like's and dislike's of DIYMA & SI Mag? Sorry to be a pest but I'm looking for the right sub (like we all are). LOL Also a friend of mine suggested IDMAX pointing through my ski pass hole mounted IB, what do you guys think? That sub seems very impressive by the numbers but is way too much $$$!
> 
> Thanks,
> Jayson


This may help ya

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...arisons/51817-diyma-ref12-vs-si-mag-v4-2.html


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

bass_lover1 said:


> Finally, after having the DIYMA sit here for about 3 months collecting dust, I got a wild hair up my ass, and decided to do a temp install of the driver. I had an old sealed 12" enclosure from way back when I was using a single Dayton HO 12" sub. The box is 1.3 cubic feet net, I used a block of wood to get it down to about 1.15 then factoring in the DIYMA displacement net box size is around 1.0 Cubic feet.
> 
> Initially, I wasn't too impressed, I didn't notice anything great about it, I know it's not supposed to add anything to the sound, but switching it on and off, I could not tell a difference. So I needed to fiddle with my settings a bit. I had the sub crossed at 50hz LP @ 24db, because I didn't like the sound of the HO 10s above that, though I'm sure some of you that use the HO 10s may, but I didn't. After a simple adjustment of moving the LP up to 80hz @ 24db and moving the HP of my SLS from 40hz to 50hz, I decided to take another listen.
> 
> ...



First off I'm glad you have found a new performer in your subwoofage, I've always wanted to play with the DIYMA sub but it would have to stay in the house as I'm not adding that much weight in my car and simply don't have the room for it 

Since you are comparing basically 2 DIYMA projects I'd like to shed some light as to what I see going on here.

The subwoofer design I presented you with the Daytons was a project to make the smallest enclosure I could and still have VERY LOW LINEAR extension.... ANECHOIC. The Daytons were a solid driver and had the specs to make them up to the task. That design will work just fine as a home subwoofer, especially for music. For a car it was actually INTENDED to be used with a HPF to tame it down a bit on the very bottom end for "Ess-Que purposes" this HPF should correlate with the natural rise you would get on the bottom from the vehicles transfer function. The purpose of this is to actually REDUCE power to the driver under normal circumstances providing headroom for big bass hits, if I reduce the level going to the sub at Low freqs by, say, 6dB I now have freed up 6dB of REAL usable headroom that I would not have had if the rig was designed to play without a HPF. It's called making power by design and choosing where you want to put your efficiency. The hidden glory of the design is that it works mechanically JUST FINE without a HPF unless you are doing loud dinosaur stomps in a HT which I would then toss a HPF in there at 25 cycles. Because if this it makes a great "Ess-Que-Ell" system because it can flat out boogie where other choked-up sealed designs cannot. The short of it, it was designed to go low and loud, do it flat, and still be small. It's gonna need some DSP work to tame it down a bit on the bottom, especially in a small car.

The DIYMA sub is a different beast, in it's original intent, although some have made it just as raucous on the bottom end. The original intent was to put it in a small sealed enclosure, the natural roll off of this enclosure then correlates with the transfer function of the vehicle. So instead of using electronic filtering to tame it down they are mechanically limiting it's low end via the enclosure. You are still pouring power at it to no end even after it falls on it's face anechoic. Two different ways to get the same result.

Now that you have these details I can explain why you felt the way you did and frankly this example is a PERFECT learning experience for EVERYONE!

The daytons sounded as if they were behind you not because they were making anything you could hear but because they were shaking the piss out of the car, you were using them exactly OPPOSITE of the intent. Your spacial ques were merely tactile, the seat was shaking and it was attached to your back, it's common with high output rigs that are WAY too bottom heavy in the lowest octaves. I can replicate this in a studio here and the subs are in front of the mix position.

When you dropped the DIYMA in and could not hear it come in when you engaged it it was... because.. it was making no low end  It was mechanically limited and the Dayton system had ****-tons more natural gain where the DIYMA is rolling off, you increased the LPF and now the driver makes energy, good energy, energy that's centered right where the music you listen to has brunt. Now you have low-end energy and are not getting the tactile sensations that the Dayton provided by being completely un-balanced acoustically.

FWIW you should know that when you go see a rock show live, we HPF our subs at around 40, really no lower than 35 to provide headroom and keep from shredding subwoofers. Your crossover point on the Daytons was only 10Hz ABOVE where I normally shut subs OFF live! Because of this you can probably tell why I detest very low subwoofer crossovers, it makes no sense to me.

To wrap it up the DIYMA worked BECAUSE of it's ease of use, the enclosure does what I do electronically, the two systems are two COMPLETELY different beasts and need to be treated differently DSP-wise, it's intentional. The DIYMA is an awesome driver, they Dayton is also a damn fine driver but they had VERY different enclosure goals power-response wise and I feel that the comparison is unfair due to the fact that one sub-system was used completely backwards of it's intent.

But that's all good 

Chad


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

UCF52 said:


> This may help ya
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...arisons/51817-diyma-ref12-vs-si-mag-v4-2.html


Or the first page of that thread by clicking here.


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Wow . . . Lots of good info right there. I keep changing my mind about my current setup and leaning towards the DIYMA sub...


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## mvw2 (Oct 2, 2005)

You comparing the Dayton 12" HO and the DIYMA or a different Dayton model? I'm just curious with the 12" HO having a slightly higher F3 then the DIYMA.

Chad, you really do need to at least try the DIYMA sub at some point, maybe find someone locally running one to listen to or borrow.


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## imjustjason (Jun 26, 2006)

chithead said:


> Wow . . . Lots of good info right there. I keep changing my mind about my current setup and leaning towards the DIYMA sub...


That's funny!! I keep changing my mind about my upcoming setup an I'm leaning more away from the DIYMA's.

We need to just swap subs.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

mvw2 said:


> You comparing the Dayton 12" HO and the DIYMA or a different Dayton model? I'm just curious with the 12" HO having a slightly higher F3 then the DIYMA.
> 
> Chad, you really do need to at least try the DIYMA sub at some point, maybe find someone locally running one to listen to or borrow.


10HO and the DIYMA 12"


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## UCF52 (Nov 20, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> Or the first page of that thread by clicking here.


Whoops :blush: :blush:


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## bass_lover1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Chad, 

I completely agree with what you're saying though don't get me wrong, the HO 10s are wonderful performers they can down right boogie when needed, I actually noticed my windshield flex a bit with them the other day . To be fair, however, I did have the Daytons turned down quite a bit, because they could very easily over power the front stage. 

My guess is that you're right, the ease of use that the DIYMA offers, is probably why I feel it sounds better with minimal tuning. We'll see how things go after some play time on the DIYMA and getting it in a proper home. I still have the Daytons if I do decide to change my mind (don't think I will).

Mvw2,

He's comparing the HO 10 to the DIYMA 12. I have however used the HO 12 before, still an excellent driver.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I think the problem most people have with subs is that they have no idea how to tune them correctly. As Chad said, when most people say "It's loud as all hell but drags all the sound backward" what they really mean is the bottom octave to octave and a half is running rampant and overpowering the midbass. 

I've been telling people for a long time to do what Chad does, lower the bottom octave and all of a sudden the bass will move forward and the impact will improve drastically.


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## bass_lover1 (Dec 10, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> I think the problem most people have with subs is that they have no idea how to tune them correctly. As Chad said, when most people say "It's loud as all hell but drags all the sound backward" what they really mean is the bottom octave to octave and a half is running rampant and overpowering the midbass.
> 
> I've been telling people for a long time to do what Chad does, lower the bottom octave and all of a sudden the bass will move forward and the impact will improve drastically.



I agree with both of you on this one. I think a lot of people are in the mindset that a sub should make it's presence known, which isn't really the case. Why is it that we spend some much time getting a sound stage where when you close your eyes you can't tell where the speakers are located, yet a lot of people want the sub to be known. 

I will say one thing though, even when I had the level on the Daytons very low, I could still tell very slightly that they were playing. With the DIYMA, the level is much higher, obviously a single 12 sealed isn't going to have the same output as a pair of 10s ported, but even so it blends so much easier. I know this isn't a very scientific approach, and I have no way to test if the output of the DIYMA matches the output of the Daytons at my listening levels, but I can say that I'm much more content with the DIYMA.

Plus I get my trunk back, which is an added bonus


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