# DIY vs "Car Audio" speakers



## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

Looking at the high end, I've noticed that some "car audio" speakers, like the Seas Lotus Reference, HAT Legatia, Dynaudio Esotar2, etc are insanely priced, even when compared to the best DIY drivers, such as Seas Excels, Scanspeak Revelator/Illuminators, etc. These DIY drivers are used in home audio applications where the speakers cost more than most cars, or even a house sometimes. What is the real advantage, if any, of using car audio specific drivers? Other than some 'optimization' of T/S parameters, some of which can be EQ'd, others can be found in DIY drivers, and usually the inclusion of a passive crossover, I don't see any real advantage. Am I being blind?? There seem to be plenty of 4-ohm drivers with nice T/S parameters that you can use in an actively crossed system to sound very very good. In the car audio environment, where install>>>>gear, will you really reap the benefits of truly high end gear, DIY or car audio specific??


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

The only advantage i see is some car audio specific drivers have taken measures to handle the elements such as cone coating or basket protection but from a price/performance perspective there is no comparison with raw drivers having the advantage. Using raw drivers over overpriced car audio speakers what this site used to be about, now its about running the most expensive gear with a good name and many simple/repetitive threads like every other car audio forum


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Going further, many of those "car audio" specific drivers are nothing more than re-branded Tymphany products. 

I'm proud of my DIY drivers and if I manage to work out my last few system bugs, I may start competing in SQ just to be a thorn in the side of those running overpriced drivers. You know who you are!


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

Not to bash on those who can afford to and do run the top-of-the-line car audio components, but I'd have to agree with you guys azn and Chris.

I had thought about some treatments 'car audio' drivers get to withstand UV damage and heat, but it also seems like a trade-off; those coatings gotta effect the sound. And in some locations, like way down on the doors or in the kicks, UV is not so much an issue. I guess it's also geography too; all different weather everywhere.

The reason I came to this forum was because of the DIY aspect, as silly as that sounds.

Off topic: Azn, I swear when I was browsing, I saw you did an install in an E36 BMW?? I can't find it again. Is this true?


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

BTW, what DIY drivers are you guys using?


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Currently using Scanspeak and Acoustic Elegance but have used Seas, Peerless, Vifa, Usher, and LPG  Dont get me wrong, I have used my share of car audio specific drivers as well and there are some good ones in the mix. If you search reviews, start from the oldest to the most recent  Also check out Zaph|Audio for some reviews and graphs along with Markk and other DIY sites for cross reference


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## omegaslast (Nov 4, 2010)

RocketBoots said:


> Looking at the high end, I've noticed that some "car audio" speakers, like the Seas Lotus Reference, HAT Legatia, Dynaudio Esotar2, etc are insanely priced, even when compared to the best DIY drivers, such as Seas Excels, Scanspeak Revelator/Illuminators, etc. These DIY drivers are used in home audio applications where the speakers cost more than most cars, or even a house sometimes. What is the real advantage, if any, of using car audio specific drivers? Other than some 'optimization' of T/S parameters, some of which can be EQ'd, others can be found in DIY drivers, and usually the inclusion of a passive crossover, I don't see any real advantage. Am I being blind?? There seem to be plenty of 4-ohm drivers with nice T/S parameters that you can use in an actively crossed system to sound very very good. In the car audio environment, where install>>>>gear, will you really reap the benefits of truly high end gear, DIY or car audio specific??


Was gonna post something similar... car audio speakers are imo overpriced.

If youre spending hertz/audison/rainbow money you need to be going active, and when you look at drivers alone it leaves me scratching my head

i like these for 2 way
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8814
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8497

$100 woofers not super big
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_256&products_id=8439
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_256&products_id=8929
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_256&products_id=8430
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_256&products_id=8766

of course parts express has the dayton, and the usher woofers, keep those in mind

for 3 ways you got all sorts of 3" midrange available, scanspeak revelator is probably the best

i guess car audio woofers might have some nice weather protection, but for tweeters scanspeak revelators measure great and go low, i see little reason to buy anything else. I think its curious when people buy drivers with price tags that are seldom used outside of $20000+ home audio loudspeakers, because it strikes me as very high diminishing returns. If most companies consider their top of the line to be sufficiently satisfied with scanspeak revelators or seas excel in *home audio*, then it bewilders me why so many people need drivers that are twice as expensive in a car audio environment.


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

Zaph is a great site. One day, I'll build the ZRT. I'm fairly sure it will keep up with $20,000 speakers.

I'm really leaning towards those Scan Illuminator Tweets, D3004/6020-00 , but $120 is a bit steep... I saw some Seas Prestige ones for about $30 each, which also seemed decent. I'm definitely gonna go active; I need to find a 6.5" i like. Well, I really like Scan's revelator 7", just don't like the $460/pair price tag... and I need a sub


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## omegaslast (Nov 4, 2010)

If youre going active i like the concept of focal dome or anthony gallo set on your dash, with a 6.5" woofer in your door. Then you cross over the anthony gallo around 200hz or 300hz 

This eliminates the need for constructing "pods" or somehow placing 3" midranges. Does cost more though

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-member-build-logs/87243-unusual-2way-install.html

Anthony Gallo Acoustics. Audio Speakers Home Theater Design, Speaker Manufacturer : Nucleus Micro Ti - $220.00

$220 if you call for each. If you want a real budgety setup then go for orb audios, pretty similar performance

Quick Pack

$250 for the pair

Dont want spheres on your dash, then yeah go for the standard 2 way setup with scanspeak illuminator tweeters imo. cross em over close to 1800hz probably


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

Maybe it just my ignorance, but many home audio drivers just don't seem to cater to car audio. 

I want to see more drivers with 4ohm impedance, reasonable mounting depth, and plug and play installation (that is, either 6-1/2 or 5-1/2). It seems like most of the good, proven home audio woofers are either 8ohm or wrong size for a car door installation.


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

I feel like for SQ installs, lots of people use 8 ohm drivers successfully. I agree it's not ideal for cars, and I'm trying to stay away from them if i can, but nonetheless, I think they can work well. The sizing does seem a bit off as well, but that's what baffles are for  A little more work, but this is a DIY site after all  I'd gladly trade a little elbow grease for $$$ in savings and great SQ.

Wow, 1800 seems really really low for tweets.


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## gt6334a (Sep 9, 2010)

keep the info flowing guys, i'm subscribing to this thread..

sorry i don't have much info to share. i've only personally used car drivers but i do plan to go raw drivers once i figure out what i want to optimize for...


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## Vancomycin (Mar 21, 2011)

Have thought the same way too...

Very pleased with my raw Morel MDT-29 tweeters, for the $.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

RocketBoots said:


> BTW, what DIY drivers are you guys using?


I'm using a Tang Band W4-1757SB as my mid/tweet and a Mach5 Audio MLI-65 as my midbass driver.


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

azngotskills said:


> Currently using Scanspeak and Acoustic Elegance but have used Seas, Peerless, Vifa, Usher, and LPG  Dont get me wrong, I have used my share of car audio specific drivers as well and there are some good ones in the mix. If you search reviews, start from the oldest to the most recent  Also check out Zaph|Audio for some reviews and graphs along with Markk and other DIY sites for cross reference


I now know where I saw one of your posts. It was your first active 3way, where u used the same seas tweeter I've been considering, the midrange that is not available anymore and got a killer deal on a PPI processor. May I ask what scan drivers, specifically, u have now? I'll post a link when I can, but those were some great bang for the buck DIY drivers!


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

ChrisB said:


> I'm using a Tang Band W4-1757SB as my mid/tweet and a Mach5 Audio MLI-65 as my midbass driver.


I've read some good things about that tang band mid. Are you able to effectively use it as your tweet? I was gonna do the same thing, but then decided to mount a tweet in the A-pillar. Did you try other mids? The scan 4" while expensive would be something I'd have no prob ponying up the cash for if I could position it ~10* off axis. I was also considering the trinity, and that square Vifa. I haven't heard of the midbass you're using. How do u like it? I'll check it out.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

The Tang Band works out well for utilizing the stock locations in an off-axis situation. It is slightly harsh on the high end with "raw" music, but I am 90% satisfied with it. I generally run it from 500 Hz on up, but I used it as low as 315 Hz. 

Because my Mustang has sealed pods, I spent a lot of time modeling midbass drivers that would work from about 80 Hz on up in .7 cubic feet sealed. In my case, the run of the mill car audio drivers don't work because they are designed for infinite baffle use. As a result, many typical "car audio" specific drivers had a drastic cut in output below 120 Hz. The Mach5 audio drivers fit this need for midbass in my vehicle, but they have since been discontinued. 

It is my opinion that a strong midbass presence up front is a MUST for decent audio reproduction in the mobile environment. Sadly, many pre-packaged component sets fall short of providing decent midbass, especially in a sealed pod!


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

DIY drivers here:

B&G neo3 tweeters, neo8 mids, TB 5.25" sub's in the doors for midbass.


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## 000zero (Mar 12, 2011)

Good info, I am going to get some raw drivers (probably Seas) and makes some surround speakers for my HT. If that goes well I will try them in my car.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

RocketBoots said:


> I now know where I saw one of your posts. It was your first active 3way, where u used the same seas tweeter I've been considering, the midrange that is not available anymore and got a killer deal on a PPI processor. May I ask what scan drivers, specifically, u have now? I'll post a link when I can, but those were some great bang for the buck DIY drivers!


Yup that was me  Yea I dont think that the Seas G18RNX/P driver is still available but a better option is the Seas ER18RNX which is  There are even more depeding on your budget and needs...

I will be using the Scanspeak Revelator 18S, 12M, and 1" Illuminator


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

ChrisB said:


> The Tang Band works out well for utilizing the stock locations in an off-axis situation. It is slightly harsh on the high end with "raw" music, but I am 90% satisfied with it. I generally run it from 500 Hz on up, but I used it as low as 315 Hz.
> 
> Because my Mustang has sealed pods, I spent a lot of time modeling midbass drivers that would work from about 80 Hz on up in .7 cubic feet sealed. In my case, the run of the mill car audio drivers don't work because they are designed for infinite baffle use. As a result, many typical "car audio" specific drivers had a drastic cut in output below 120 Hz. The Mach5 audio drivers fit this need for midbass in my vehicle, but they have since been discontinued.
> 
> It is my opinion that a strong midbass presence up front is a MUST for decent audio reproduction in the mobile environment. Sadly, many pre-packaged component sets fall short of providing decent midbass, especially in a sealed pod!


I agree that strong midbass up front is critical for great sound. Ahh, the mustang. My first car. Nothing like they are now. I had a crappy 1989 LX model which had about 100HP, and I had a set of Infinity Kappa's in front, some pyle 6x9's for which I cut holes in the rear deck, and a pathetic sounding bazooka tube that sucked. Sealed pod eh? You might try to use that to your advantage, if it's a good enough seal. 



BowDown said:


> DIY drivers here:
> 
> B&G neo3 tweeters, neo8 mids, TB 5.25" sub's in the doors for midbass.


Wow, what a great idea, planar mids nicely disguised in the A-pillars!! Now THAT's DIY!! Never thought to do that... I've never heard that type of speaker in a car environment. If they're anything like Maggies, the sound should be incredible, albeit at the price of an extremely power hungry driver.



000zero said:


> Good info, I am going to get some raw drivers (probably Seas) and makes some surround speakers for my HT. If that goes well I will try them in my car.


Yeah, I wish I hadn't been so lazy and made some HT speakers myself. Although, the Polks I'm using now were such a great deal, I couldn't have done it myself for any cheaper. Lots of room for improvement in sound though. Another time, another project.



azngotskills said:


> Yup that was me  Yea I dont think that the Seas G18RNX/P driver is still available but a better option is the Seas ER18RNX which is  There are even more depeding on your budget and needs...
> 
> I will be using the Scanspeak Revelator 18S, 12M, and 1" Illuminator


What car will these go in? I'm really struggling with those drivers, trying to decide if I want to really stretch myself ultra thin, splurge, eat franks and beans for a month, and get a similar set-up, or get something else. There are so many really good (but not the BEST) drivers out there, like that Seas combo, that would cost about 1/3 the price of the Scan setup... killing me. Although, a similar Scanspeak driver set in the "made for car audio" would probably cost $3000 or something ridiculous...


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

RocketBoots said:


> What car will these go in? I'm really struggling with those drivers, trying to decide if I want to really stretch myself ultra thin, splurge, eat franks and beans for a month, and get a similar set-up, or get something else. There are so many really good (but not the BEST) drivers out there, like that Seas combo, that would cost about 1/3 the price of the Scan setup... killing me. Although, a similar Scanspeak driver set in the "made for car audio" would probably cost $3000 or something ridiculous...


They are going in a 2008 Camry SE. If you want my honest advice, buy cheaper and experiment/learn what works best for you, how to tune, and what you like. Then you will get a better idea of what you like and what your final system goals, plan out a top notch system and take your time to install it. You can only take advice from forums so much, you need to listen and hear yourself


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## Pataforce8 (Feb 21, 2011)

Just a quick question:
When ya'll refer to DIY drivers, do you just mean the speaker itself? Is it simply known as DIY because it comes without an enclosure, and most home audio speakers have an enclosure?

Or do you mean DIY like...you built the speaker out of parts that they shipped to you?


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

DIY as in picking the drivers to put in my car versus paying for a pre-packaged component set that comes with a passive crossover that will never get used.

Edit: Go to a site like this and knock yourself out: http://madisound.com/


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

azngotskills said:


> They are going in a 2008 Camry SE. If you want my honest advice, buy cheaper and experiment/learn what works best for you, how to tune, and what you like. Then you will get a better idea of what you like and what your final system goals, plan out a top notch system and take your time to install it. You can only take advice from forums so much, you need to listen and hear yourself


Yeah, the tuning part is what concerns me a little. I can't really find a cheap tuning device. All I want is active crossover, EQ, time align, level control. I don't want to spend the $$ on, say, an MS8. Any recommendations, from anyone?

At this point, I just need to find the time to do all the work. I'm doing some restoration work on the car, and trying to time it so I can do everything at once and actually save time. 



Pataforce8 said:


> Just a quick question:
> When ya'll refer to DIY drivers, do you just mean the speaker itself? Is it simply known as DIY because it comes without an enclosure, and most home audio speakers have an enclosure?
> 
> Or do you mean DIY like...you built the speaker out of parts that they shipped to you?





ChrisB said:


> DIY as in picking the drivers to put in my car versus paying for a pre-packaged component set that comes with a passive crossover that will never get used.
> 
> Edit: Go to a site like this and knock yourself out: Madisound Speaker Components | Loudspeaker drivers and speaker parts for loudspeaker builders.


What he said


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

If you definitely want to start in the learning phase buy an active capable HU, there are many but here are some to hive you a head start alpine cda9813/15/33/35, eclipse cd8443/8454/8053/7000/7100/7200 or pioneer 880/800prs. I think it is the most cost effective way to have complete dsp controls. If you just want a cheap dsp only piece, look into the minidsp


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## Pataforce8 (Feb 21, 2011)

ChrisB said:


> DIY as in picking the drivers to put in my car versus paying for a pre-packaged component set that comes with a passive crossover that will never get used.
> 
> Edit: Go to a site like this and knock yourself out: Madisound Speaker Components | Loudspeaker drivers and speaker parts for loudspeaker builders.


Oh, well I guess I've been a DIY'er without realizing it. Always felt like the pre-packaged components were over-rated...


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## brocken (Apr 26, 2010)

There are definitely tons of options in the 'diy' category of drivers. But don't completely discount 'car audio' brands either.

Rainbow is a great example of a good value in car audio. Most people see Rainbow mentioned and assume it's some $2k-4k reference set... They have some great packages for less than $1k. 
I have $700 invested into a Rainbow Vanadium Cross Kickbass set. Why is it a good value? It comes with an excellent tweeter - CAL26 silk - that's hard to beat in the price range. Heck, I like it more than some tweeters that cost twice as much.
Comes with the Vanadium Kickbass 6.5" midbass... AWESOME midbass speaker. Excellent detail and clarity with a tight, punchy authority. Without jumping into something massive like the Exodus I think the Kickbass is one of the best midbass speakers.
The 3 way set also comes with the Vanadium 4" midrange. There was a DIYMA review done on 15 or so midranges last year and the Vanadium was 2nd from the top level (and considerably cheaper than the top tier speaker). It's an excellent compliment to the kickbass and the cal26 silk. Lets the midbass focus on lower end and gives even more detail to strings and vocals.

I'm sure there are a bunch of DIY combos that would sound as good as the Rainbow set. Just depends on how much work you want to put into researching and trying out speakers.
I tried DIY speakers and was really impressed. However, I went back to Rainbow because there's just something about the sound that does it for me.

p.s. just because you buy a 'Car Audio' kit doesn't mean there's no DIY to it. You still have to install and the sky is the limit on custom installs. Plus, you can always go active and toss those passive xovers on a shelf.

Moral of the story - do your research and evaluate the drivers individually rather than tossing out one group or the other.


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

brocken said:


> There are definitely tons of options in the 'diy' category of drivers. But don't completely discount 'car audio' brands either.
> 
> Rainbow is a great example of a good value in car audio.
> 
> ...


Good point. I hadn't really considered Rainbow. I've heard good things about them, but I just haven't heard them myself. I just sort of felt like you were wasting a little of your money on the crossover if you were gonna go active. I liked DLS and Boston Acoustics Pro's from a long time ago. Those also seem like a decent value, produce good sound, and are not outrageously priced.

A nice Seas combo might be the Seas ER18RNX mid with the 27TFFNC/G tweet. ~$220 total. 

I wish I could incorporate a midrange, but I'm not willing to do the amount of fabrication needed, nor alter the interior appearance that much from stock to do it. I have a factory location for a ~2.5-3" mid, but it's in the door, and pretty horrible placement and hard to work with.


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## brianhj (Apr 9, 2009)

I always thought car audio speakers were designed for IB and off-axis playing since most people would be using them in that manner. Where as DIY speakers (or home audio speakers) would be used on-axis (or close to it) and enclosed.

And of course the attention to weather proofing the car audio speakers sometimes get.


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

brianhj said:


> I always thought car audio speakers were designed for IB and off-axis playing since most people would be using them in that manner. Where as DIY speakers (or home audio speakers) would be used on-axis (or close to it) and enclosed.
> 
> And of course the attention to weather proofing the car audio speakers sometimes get.


I had thought that to some degree as well, but then if you look at a site like Zaph, or the specs at Madisound, or even some of the testing members on this site have done, it seems like many 'home audio' speakers have very good off-axis response, and good T/S parameters for IB applications.


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## brocken (Apr 26, 2010)

RocketBoots said:


> Good point. I hadn't really considered Rainbow. I've heard good things about them, but I just haven't heard them myself. I just sort of felt like you were wasting a little of your money on the crossover if you were gonna go active.


I thought the same thing too until I priced out just the drivers w/o crossover from Don and the difference was $40. It's worth getting the set with crossovers included because you have somewhere to start. You can install without a ton of tuning needed and see if you like the drivers.


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

cajunner said:


> big schism on what the best application of dispersion and polar response is in the car, some schools of thought have the full-range car audio driver producing a lot of beaming so the nearby reflections are less audible in the mix, (obviously, mounted angled and on-axis here works better) and some have the wide dispersion with no beaming at all using several purpose built drivers spread across the bandwidth, without any care of the reflections or 'virtual' drivers.
> 
> lobing, is something that is hardly ever discussed in car audio but is relevant to this discussion because of the environment.
> 
> ...


Very interesting. I'll admit that I had to look up the lobing effect, and much of the technical aspects of what you mention are over my head. However, I'm always interested in the end result. I tried to search for Matt R, and couldn't find him on this forum. Do you have a link to the above mentioned reference? I'd love to read about how and what he did with drivers in cars. Even in home audio, one of the main reasons I'd buy a complete speaker vs doing it myself was because I figured, these system designers know a whole hell of a lot more than I do, and for well thought out designs, they gotta be doing something more than just putting top quality drivers in a top quality cabinet to make it sound so good. Example: D'Appolito configurations. I never would have come up with that myself.

I've tried to investigate what parameter to optimize for a car audio install, and sort of came up with pathlength, as trying to make drivers on-axis required too much fabrication. In terms of the lobing effect, that sheds some light on why off-axis installations can sound so good. 

I agree that I see a trend to do A-pillar tweet, kick mid, door bass, but that seems to be using pathlength as a main parameter being considered, with optimization of imaging the main goal. While I find imaging/soundstaging nice, I would sacrifice that for pure tonality, accurate detail, and a revealing, smooth sound. 

As far as my driver preferences, in home audio, and to a good extent car audio, I do not like the sound of a full range driver, especially pointed right at me, or nearly on axis. My current plan is to have a 6.5" in the kick covering the midrange and midbass, and a tweet in the A-pillar, angled maybe slightly toward the opposite seat, but mainly just pointed toward each other. I'm just trying to optimize pathlength; are there some major concepts i'm missing, or other considerations that will optimize the sound, such as the lobing effect or something else?? In that case, how much will off-axis response of a driver matter?


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## Vancomycin (Mar 21, 2011)

The huge smile on your face IS the DIY magic! 

Just hooked up my Madisound Morel tweeters and listened to the Focal JMLabs tracks....WOW!!!!! Even my neighbour came out in the rain last night to enjoy.

Inexpensive Morel MDT-22 XO at 1800Hz (Fs is 650 on these dynamos). Audison amp.


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## redearedslider5 (Jun 21, 2009)

this is something that's been on my mind the last few days. i've been thinking the reason i wouldn't get into trying out a bunch of different drivers is because of the install. thanks to this thread though (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...anced/65061-improve-your-soundstage-$2-3.html) it makes the job so much easier that i feel like theres no way to avoid at least trying out a few of the great drivers out there. i'm using a 3 way dynaudio set up now and i finally got my hands on a pair of dc1000.4 running full active so it seems like its a great time for experimentation!


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## hokiruu (Dec 16, 2010)

So this weekend my girlfriend turned up the volume on the CDA105 in the Tacoma and blew the factory speakers with this track:
YouTube - Spor - Pacifica (Chasing Shadows Remix)
I need to figure what to do for replacements. What would you put in the truck to be able to have girlfriend push distortion-heavy tracks like that as loud as she can stand?


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## cjstaci (Sep 6, 2010)

When I started looking for speakers for my 71 Mustang conv, the stereo stores were quoting between $3000 to $5000 for speakers. I thought they were just looking for $$$ so I bought a pair of 50 year old JBL 12" for $60, built a box to replace the back of the rear seat, added a two way x-over and audax tweet's.... I am not even close to optimizing this set up yet, but as it is now it rocks. It's loud and clean. I think my limitation right now is my amp, a T400-4 Fosgate. I am considering a butler tube amp or an old school amp with real clean power.
The bottom line, the car audio market is way overpriced. Like everything else it's all about the money. A little ingenuity, some raw driver's, new or old, and you can have a high SQ system for reasonable money.


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## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

Sweet track to blow some speakers with.


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## 3cyltrbo (Apr 11, 2011)

Is it wise to make an exponential increase in spending for an incremental increase in quality??.....................................

I'm using the Dayton ND 105 4" midbass and Vifa BC 25 tweet for front stage and the tang-band 6.5 sub 

all from parts express

Subs $38 each (on sale) / Mids $26.90 each / Tweets $11.62 each

that means the 6 speakers in my car in total cost $229

thats less than half what some 3" full ranges cost

I'm now trying the Tang Band W3 - 3" bamboo driver, but even they only cost $38 a piece so if I run them instead of the Vifa tweeter, my total speaker investment will only be $280 ish (still a minute fraction of what some stuff costs) 

Maybe some other products would sound better in the exact same setup, but would they sound so much better in relation to their cost?

meaning - if the speakers in my setup cost $280 and others are available to replace them but cost $2000 for the same setup (2 mids / 2 fullranges / 2 subs) are they really going to sound 8 times better?

If they even sound twice as good, is it worth it?

For the time being, personally I'm gonna go as far as I can with less expensive stuff. If I reach a point where I absolutely can't get 8/10 or 9/10 sound than maybe I'll swap - but I don't know that I'll spend exponentially more for incremental gains. 

If my $280 investment can give me 8/10 or even 9/10 sound - I'm not about to invest 8 times as much just to get 10/10 sound

W


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## 1min.shuffle (May 3, 2011)

azngotskills said:


> Yup that was me  Yea I dont think that the Seas G18RNX/P driver is still available but a better option is the Seas ER18RNX which is  There are even more depeding on your budget and needs...
> 
> I will be using the Scanspeak Revelator 18S, 12M, and 1" Illuminator


I've got a few questions that you might might be able to help me with...PM sent, thanks in advance!

-jorge


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## RocketBoots (Apr 16, 2011)

3cyltrbo said:


> Is it wise to make an exponential increase in spending for an incremental increase in quality??.....................................
> 
> I'm using the Dayton ND 105 4" midbass and Vifa BC 25 tweet for front stage and the tang-band 6.5 sub
> 
> ...


Such is the law of diminishing returns. This basically holds true for most things in life. To get 80% costs X. To get 95% costs 10x, 100x, 1000x, etc. For car audio, your ears will be the only things that can tell you if it's worth it or not. For me, having suffered from the home audio upgrade/change disease, I feel that the absolute best "made for car audio" drivers are not worth the money. The room, which in this case is the car, has so many limitations and degradations on the SQ that IMO you're better off getting really good, but not the 'best' drivers, and carefully optimizing the environment, and ultimately just living with your limitations. Don't get me wrong, the really good stuff (but not 'best') definitely sound better to me; just plain better. More realistic, able to deliver the music better. But you will pay a price for that. For example, I've not heard tang band drivers myself, but I had HiVi speakers for home audio in the past. They were fine speakers, and a downright bargain, but could they compare to the high end offerings from Wilson, Dynaudio, Sonus Fabre, Merlin, Magico, etc? Of course not. Is it worth literally 300x the price? Well... I guess that's why there's DIY  My other advice would be to NOT listen to another system with, say, a HAT Pro, or Dyn Esotec, or Morel Supremo, or maybe even Scan Revelator drivers, cuz chances are, they are gonna sound better...


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