# From IDMAX to Arc Black12: My Listening Impressions



## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

I'd like to discuss my impression of the Black12, but first, a quick overview of my car audio history:

*Year 2008*. 99' Galant. Aftermarket Sony coaxials, Pioneer DEH P5100UB deck. Got my first sub- JL W1v2 in a sealed box installed on a cheap Kenwood amp. Wow, having a sub is awesome.

*Year 2009*. Everything the same except I upgraded to an IDMAX12 in 1.37cuft sealed box. Holy #@$% I'm in love. Demolishes the W1v2 in every aspect. JL 500/1 amp. Bass sounds amazing in every song, except 2 distinct songs, where the IDMAX sounds stressed.

*Year 2010*. Hertz MLK 165, Pioneer DEH P5100UB, Audison LRX 5.1k, and switched to a ported 1.8cuft box for the IDMAX12. At first I missed the sealed sound, but really enjoyed the extra output. Very awesome, although there are now about 4 distinct songs where the bass sounds very muddy or stressed. 

*December 2012*. Got an 07' Accord. Doors completely sealed w/ Hushmat. Audison LRX 5.1k and Pioneer 5100UB. Wanted to switch things up- Arc Audio Black 6.2 and Black12 in a 1.2cuft sealed box hooked up at 4ohms. Also Audison BitOne, professionally installed and tuned. Sorry I'm cloudy on the crossover points, I think 110ish for sub, and 3200 for mid.

First, a word on the Black 6.2:
I'd read some mixed feedback on these prior to purchasing, but I felt they were what I was looking for. Plus I couldn't go wrong for $350. I wanted smooth and neutral, and that's what I got. Ridiculous amount of midbass from the mids, no joke. Tweeters sound smooth and fuller than the Hertz. Amazing soundstage. Loud and clear. Thank you BitOne. I still think my dream components are Dynaudio, but these will definitely keep me happy until I save up enough for those.

*OK, my Black12 expectations*:
I expected to be amazed after reading all the comments. I had read that it would sound better than the IDMAX, that it might go deeper, that it might be as loud, that it was the best part of the whole Black series, etc. All I really wanted was a different sub sound since I had become used to the sound of my IDMAX. I wasn't looking for more output, just a different sound, while still retaining awesome SQ. My favorite dealer carried it so I pulled the trigger and even got a great Black Friday price.

*First listening sesson*:
My system is finally done. I take the drivers seat and begin to listen to a couple of hours of music with my installer.

We listen to some demo tracks. A Focal CD and a couple others. Everything sounds great, the time alignment stuff is very trippy in a good way.

First track I put in is Magnetic Man - Mad. It's kind of dubsteppy but doesn't sound like fax machines having sex. It has amazing bass and that's all I want to hear at first. Sounds amazing, deep, powerful, probably as loud as the IDMAX.

I then play some 80s-sounding synthy new wave chill wave whatever you wanna call it. Chromatics, Drive soundtrack, Empire of the Sun, Depeche Mode, Little Dragon, Gorillaz, Brazilian Girls, Crystal Castles, Mt. Eden, the XX, M83. Some hiphop- Gorilla Zoe, Atmosphere, Dr Dre, Living Legends, MF Doom. Rock - Muse, NIN, etc.

*My impressions*:
The Black12 blends perfectly with my front end. SQ is amazing. True to the source. Those 4 songs that never sounded right with the IDMAX sound perfect. In the 3 months I've had the Black12, it has played everything effortlessly. In some songs, the bass sounds deeper. In others, it sounds about as loud as the IDMAX. 

*My only complaint*...
I wish it was louder overall. In most songs, the output is definitely not as loud as the ported IDMAX, and from what I remember about the IDMAX sealed, it's not as loud as that either. This is fine with me, except for a few dozen in which I'm puzzled. For instance in Postal Service - Such Great Heights and Postal Service - Natural Anthem, I'm wondering what happened to the bass. In my IDMAX, these songs have pretty loud bass, and with the Black12, I can hear it, but it sounds very quiet in comparison to the IDMAX. Did I get spoiled by the output of the ported IDMAX?

In some other songs, like Sigur Ros-Inní mér syngur vitleysingu or MGMT-Electric Feel, there is a type of bass used in these songs that sounded springy or bouncy (hard to explain) with the IDMAX that I miss. Maybe the IDMAX was adding that to the song, I don't know.

I gave my W1v2 to my gf in her 99' Elentra, and even her W1v2 sounds louder than my Black12 in some songs, and that BOGGLES me. Of course the Black12 destroys it in SQ, tonality, quickness, and deepness, but it kind of makes me bummed out LOL. (I do assume that in her 99 Elentra there is not much of a barrier between the cabin and trunk, whereas my 07 Accord is built much more solidly and probably has a thicker barrier, which might be one explanation).

I haven't listened to ALL the songs on my iPod yet. In most songs, the loss in output is fairly small and doesn't bother me. And again, in a LOT of songs, it sounds about as loud as the IDMAX, which is why it boggles my mind that in some songs I'm starting to re-listen to, that I've heard numerous times with the IDMAX, the bass just isn't there. I wish I could find out which frequencies the songs I'm boggled by use. Is the Black12 better with the lower frequencies than mid and upper or maybe those just have a harder time reaching the interior from the trunk?

*Conclusions*:
I'm in love with my system. I'm having a blast re-listening to my music collection. Whenever I try to listen to just the speakers- nitpicking parts of songs and listening for any harshness, muddiness, or imperfections, I just get sucked back into the music. It is the best sounding system I've heard so far. It sounds excellent with every genre, and the sub, once again, plays every song effortlessly and cleanly, never sounding muddy or strained. I became used to the sound of my IDMAX. It wasn't a one-note sub by ANY means, but the Black12 just sounds so much more versatile tonally. 

I didn't think I would mind having less bass output with this new system, _but I'm beginning to find out that a part of me is still a bass head_. I do miss that extra output. The 07' Accord is a newer car, and newer cars are built more solidly than older cars. I had my rears removed and keep the trunk access hole open, but I'm sure the solidity of materials used do play a part in restricting the bass output that reaches the interior.

The IDMAX is obviously an SQL sub. It sounds amazing and plays loud. I'm coming around to the fact that the Black12 is a PURE SQ sub. Kind of like the Ultimo, but probably much louder. Despite my qualm with the output, I think the Black12 might be my favorite thing about my system. I love how clean it sounds, but I'm definitely thinking about either getting a second Black12 or having a ported box built for this one to give me that extra desired output.

That's all for now, what do you guys think?


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Have you experimented with box placement in the trunk? Also, the Arc might not like playing above say 60hz in your install. Just a thought.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

Thanks for writing this reviews. I still feel tempted to try out one of ID subs. There were so many good reviews of them. Perhaps for a new build, I'll look at their v4 subs or perhaps whatever Eric Stevens comes up with when he starts a new company. By the way, for both IDMAX boxes you mentioned, the volume seems kind of small compared to what others recommend for IDMAX12. For sealed, I heard 1.5cu ft as good for the v3 version.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Have you experimented with box placement in the trunk? Also, the Arc might not like playing above say 60hz in your install. Just a thought.


I've not experimented with box placement, and not sure I'll be able to anytime soon. The amp and BitOne are mounted to the back of the box, and the box is mounted to the trunk by 2 L-brackets. It was kind of designed to be where it is. Brad from Arc said the sub is great up to about 100hz. I think it's actually crossed at 125 right now, so maybe we'll try 100hz, and bring the mid/tweeter crossover point down as well.



ZAKOH said:


> Thanks for writing this reviews. I still feel tempted to try out one of ID subs. There were so many good reviews of them. Perhaps for a new build, I'll look at their v4 subs or perhaps whatever Eric Stevens comes up with when he starts a new company. By the way, for both IDMAX boxes you mentioned, the volume seems kind of small compared to what others recommend for IDMAX12. For sealed, I heard 1.5cu ft as good for the v3 version.


Yeah the IDMAX I have is a D4V3. The sealed spec is what they used to recommend before they started recommending the 1.5 spec. As for the ported volume, I had a different audio shop make that for me before I realized the recommended spec was closer to 2.5cuft. Not sure why they made it so small, and I do wish they had made it to spec instead of trying their own take at it, but it did still sound good.

Would love to hear from other Black12 users to see if my impressions match theirs.


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## Mixman (Aug 11, 2009)

I had the Black 12 and you are right it is an SQ sub. It goes low and blends very well with the front stage. The problem for me is I tend to like SQL subs better. You hear the Black, but can't quite feel it. The output is so so. I liked my Arc Flatline 12 (similar to IDMAX) better, not quite as articulate as the black down low but the 60-80hz you could feel a lot more on the Flatline. Right now, I am running JBL GTI subs which have the lows and ability to blend of the Black, with the output of the Flatline.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Mixman said:


> I had the Black 12 and you are right it is an SQ sub. It goes low and blends very well with the front stage. The problem for me is I tend to like SQL subs better. You hear the Black, but can't quite feel it. The output is so so. I liked my Arc Flatline 12 (similar to IDMAX) better, not quite as articulate as the black down low but the 60-80hz you could feel a lot more on the Flatline. Right now, I am running JBL GTI subs which have the lows and ability to blend of the Black, with the output of the Flatline.


I think I'm still an SQL guy as well, which has me wanting the extra output. I've always wanted to hear the JBL GTI series, but I'm going to stick with the Black12 for a while. I'm enjoying the hell out of it, and still deciding if I want to add another one or just try porting this one. If I had 2 Black12s I'd definitely need to get a HO alternator (I think 07 Accord only has 80amp alt) so I'm thinking of trying ported first, but I've never read any feedback of one ported before.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

RE: not hearing as much bass in the Postal Service songs... Try listening through a pair of quality headphones in the car to that track and then over the system. Are you certain you're not just used to 'too much' bass from the IDMAX ported? Are you certain you're not just desiring more bass from the track that wasn't mastered onto the recording? 
Nothing wrong with that either, sometimes you want a little extra oomph on a track, but I'd be more inclined to have accurate playback and use the sub adjustment on my HU or processor for the special cases.


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## Sound Suggestions (Dec 5, 2010)

I have had the pleasure of owning a lot of subs over the last 22/23 years of this car audio obsession and I must say thus far that the Idmax 12" that I am currently using is by a fair margin the best sub I have ever used, as a matter of fact it pretty much smokes anything else I have ever tempered with :O that said I alway switch up my gear and I do have my eye on a 12" Morel Ultimo lol....can't help myself

For reference I have had the following subs (many more that I may have forgotten)

JL Audio
12w7
10w7
10w6v1 and v2's on many occasions
10w3v1 v2 v3
10w1 original
10w0

Arc Audio Arc Series 10's (many say they sound very similar to the idq)
Pheonix Gold Xmax 12's
Orion XTR 12
Sound Pressures 10's
Rockford Fosgate 10's can't remember the series (sold to my friend who still uses them)
Bazoka's 3 triangle

Subs that I would like ti use one day......
Morel Ultimo
Dynaudio Esotar
JBL (big boyz)
I also am a little curious about the Black Series

I just found that the IDmax can get pretty stupid loud but also sound very good doing it. I have mine in the recomended sealed enclosure 

Subscribed, wanna see what other experiences you have


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

captainobvious said:


> RE: not hearing as much bass in the Postal Service songs... Try listening through a pair of quality headphones in the car to that track and then over the system. Are you certain you're not just used to 'too much' bass from the IDMAX ported? Are you certain you're not just desiring more bass from the track that wasn't mastered onto the recording?
> Nothing wrong with that either, sometimes you want a little extra oomph on a track, but I'd be more inclined to have accurate playback and use the sub adjustment on my HU or processor for the special cases.


Even when I had the IDMAX sealed, I remember that Such Great Heights song having more audible bass, at least I think I do, it's been a while. I have to remember the Black is an SQ sub and to get the same output that I'm used to I'll need to try ported or go 2 sealed. And yeah, I do sometimes wish I could put more bass into my favorite tracks lol



Sound Suggestions said:


> I have had the pleasure of owning a lot of subs over the last 22/23 years of this car audio obsession and I must say thus far that the Idmax 12" that I am currently using is by a fair margin the best sub I have ever used, as a matter of fact it pretty much smokes anything else I have ever tempered with :O that said I alway switch up my gear and I do have my eye on a 12" Morel Ultimo lol....can't help myself
> 
> For reference I have had the following subs (many more that I may have forgotten)
> 
> ...


I'm jealous of all the subs you've gotten to use lol. I still want to hear a W6, DD 2512, Esotar, Hertz ML300, JBL GTI, and Ultimo as well. How did the W6 fare against the IDMAX?

I really think you should try out the Black12, it would be perfect timing since you would be coming from the IDMAX too, although it doesn't sound like you'll be switching it up anytime soon 

I actually still have my IDMAX, it's been on Craigslist here for 4 months now, but all people seem to care about here is Kicker and the like lol. I have had some offers, but like you said, I loved it so much that I'm in no rush to sell it. I'd still like to try it out in its recommended sealed and ported enclosure sizes one day, and replay those few tracks that it always sounded muddy/strained on and see if that helps. Those songs for reference:

1. Moderat - A New Error [sounded worse on sealed - there seem to be a few different versions on YouTube that sound different, but this is the one I'm talking about] Moderat - A New Error on Vimeo

2. Balam Acab - See Birds (Coyote Clean Up Dub) [sounded bad ported] balaam acab - see birds (coyote clean-up dub) - YouTube

3. Kid Cudi - Maniac [sounded very bad ported] Kid Cudi - Maniac - YouTube

4. Few others but can't think right now. Some Delorean off the album Subiza.

Maybe these could have sounded super good with some eq- even though all other songs sounded good- or maybe it was the smaller than recommended enclosure size- who knows. 

The bass from the Black12 is so clean sounding, it's really impeccable to experience. I'm hoping if I port it, it will be louder without sacrificing any SQ. Arc recommends a 1.8cuft box for SQ ported, tuned to 30hz.. I wonder if I could just plop it in my 1.8cuft ported box tuned to 32hz that the IDMAX is in and see how it sounds.

Anyways, I see you also have an Audison LRX 5.1k. Does yours get hot as hell? Mine gets so ridiculously hot it's hard to keep my hand on it for more than 10 seconds or so. Even when I didn't have a sub hooked up to it, even when I drive around with the volume knob at 0, it gets very hot.


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## Sound Suggestions (Dec 5, 2010)

Hi, The W6 on that list were probably the 2nd best sounding after ther IDmax, it is buttery smooth and digs low effortlessly...lacked a little in the 60-80hz departmemt, No big issue now since I now prefer my subs crossed 60hz and down now...I had an Lrx5.1k about a two years ago, I sold that one (crazy me!) I had decided to use two Arc Audio Amps 4200/2300se's wich were really good...but I somehow always missed the Audison (have sinced purchased another one!) In the process of acquiring all the piece for my next build...so it's not currently installed (the last one got warm...nothing crazy) my real debate is do I install my new 12" IDmax or buy the Morel Ultimo!?...time will tell

I did run 2 arc series 10"s when I first hooked up the Arc amps....those subs were also quite nice


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## loudnproud808 (Apr 3, 2013)

Hoptologist said:


> 1. Moderat - A New Error [sounded worse on sealed - there seem to be a few different versions on YouTube that sound different, but this is the one I'm talking about] Moderat - A New Error on Vimeo
> 
> 2. Balam Acab - See Birds (Coyote Clean Up Dub) [sounded bad ported] balaam acab - see birds (coyote clean-up dub) - YouTube
> 
> ...


i believe it must had been your enclosure , i am listening to these songs on my earphones and it sounds like both my rides will slam this bass , and to see i am downloading them rite now. 
song 1, and 2 , seem like they will sound incredible on the 2.5 @ 28, the bigger box makes a huge difference , the [email protected] probly wont be as good , and like i said b4 i dont know how it would sound in [email protected] that would explain it sounding muddy :cwm13:

as an educated guess i would say song 1,2 would song like ur in a theater on an idmax12 with [email protected] , however the kid cudi song would be more "balanced" on the [email protected] , i will sample these songs when i go out tonite and i have no doubt about the first 2 songs


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## loudnproud808 (Apr 3, 2013)

Hoptologist said:


> 1. Moderat - A New Error [sounded worse on sealed - there seem to be a few different versions on YouTube that sound different, but this is the one I'm talking about] Moderat - A New Error on Vimeo
> 
> 2. Balam Acab - See Birds (Coyote Clean Up Dub) [sounded bad ported] balaam acab - see birds (coyote clean-up dub) - YouTube
> 
> ...


so i listened to these songs last night on my [email protected] and i can find nothing wrong to my ears or lacking in either SQ or the output , i did not get the chance on the [email protected] 

what was the problem with these songs exactly was it the output or the SQ or both ?

*here is my impressions for your songs on my IDMAX12 in 2.5ft @28hrtz* 

1.moderat - 
loud as hell, very deep , earthquake to my whole car. does not sound muddy or anything. if i wanted to show off my sub , this song would work as its loud , deep, and sounds good doing so

2.balam acab-see birds clean up dub -
once again nothing wrong here , deep ass bass , with some light punch to it i cant describe LOL , but yes it sounds wonderfull with the sub and mids together working as a system , the song as a whole i could use to show off my sub in SPL and SQ 

3.kid cudi-maniac
ok this one i thought the higher notes wouldnt be as good , i was wrong it hits the higher notes very loud and the deep ones a lil louder , and thats how i like it. this song again, easy notes, they sound fine, and the notes can heard a mile ,and make it hard to breathe in the car 

4.delorean- stay close ... ?
this one was something that was actually maybe a task for the sub unlike the other songs being a walk in the park, this one was good to test the capabilities of the sub and it did sound great , but maybe not as phenomenal in terms of loudness but still got very loud and sounded great , and may be as the artist intended it to sound but i cant say !

AND - u mentioned - such great heights- postal service-
ok this song works more the mids and sub togther , this song sounds awesome, but if u do not have mids that kick ass along with it then i can imagine it would not sound right, i think in order to truly test a sub u need a perfect pair of comps to work with it . this song is deep and has a bunch of quick notes that the MAX still hits even in its large deeply tuned enclosure its still quick as hell . remember that maybe 2 10s in a much higher tuned box would make those quick notes louder and give more impact, but u would loose out on the deep bass tho , and this is something Eric Stevens i remember saying about a "band aid" u dont want "band aids" so dont expect your sub to do what your mids are supposed to be doing . that being said , the song sounded great the deep bass and the quick punches the sub picks up fine , and working together with the Comps sounds great as a whole 


hope this convinces you to try it 2.5 @28 man , cuz thats how i love my max the most , and if the black does not have enough output, then maybe u will find that the max is really what u need but in the correct box. 

^ i run mine [email protected] on a soundstream stealth 1200d , i run all the highest end wire n rca's from rockford fostgate (better then generic ) with a kinetik battery in the back ,and a yellow top up front , and i have the big 3 alternator upgrade . that IDMAX eats up all that 1200 and wants more,despite its high efficiency ! and i do have like 100sqft of raam mat ,roof, trunk ,back dash, back seat, and bumper are all DEAD :dead_horse: 
still working on my doors !


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

loudnproud808 said:


> so i listened to these songs last night on my [email protected] and i can find nothing wrong to my ears or lacking in either SQ or the output , i did not get the chance on the [email protected]
> 
> what was the problem with these songs exactly was it the output or the SQ or both ?
> 
> ...


Once again thank you for taking the time to try all those songs out and report back on them. I'm glad to hear they all sounded amazing in your boxes. The problem I had was mainly the SQ part of it, the sub sounded amazing with most songs, but the ones I listed stood out as having a hard time, the sub didn't sound fast enough, or like it had room to breathe; it sounded muddy. Which was probably a fault of the smaller ported box.

1. Yeah that Moderat song's bass is crazy, it actually helped me find a defect in one of my home speakers, where there was a gap in the seal between the port and enclosure, creating a buzzing sound, just in 1 of my speakers. Replacement came and everythings sounded great since then. I actually really love my home speakers, Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1, but of course nothing can replace the experience of an awesome car setup.

2. There's something I like about that Balam Acab song that sounds dark or mysterious. His newer EP has better production SQ in the songs, and they sound more melodic/spacious. The song "Now Time" (Balam Acab - "Now Time" - YouTube) uses some real nice sounding bass throughout the song that just pulses through my car, like you can feel it starting from the trunk and moving through you as it moves towards the dash. It's at the 1:09 mark and repeats for a while, and again later on in the song, but I wish it was there more. "Apart" has nice deep bass throughout the song (BALAM ACAB - Apart (video) - YouTube) and "Motion" sounds real good as well (Balam Acab - Motion - YouTube).

3. This song always sounded super muddy in that small ported box, which is a shame, because it sounds great on the Black12. There's one kid cudi song where the bass is real fun to listen to, occurs in about 4 spots in the song, the first at 0:56 and it's like one of those sine waves, where it starts real low and gets higher and then lower again, like a mountain  that's in "Mr. Rager" Mr. Rager-Kid Cudi - YouTube - songs works out my mids pretty nicely too.

4. Yeah this song actually sounded worse than the Kid Cudi Maniac song on the small ported box. Starts out sounding pretty good, but it can't keep up starting at around the 0:56 point. Sounded super muddy. No problem on the Black12 sealed. 

5. Such Great Heights - Yeah this song sounds awesome, the highs with good tweeters sound great, but the bass in the beginning starting at 0:24 to around 0:43 was one of my favorite things about it, and the IDMAX rattled the **** out of my trunk on that intro. The Black12, on the other hand, I was catching myself checking to make sure it was actually on and not muted down. Who knows.

*There's one song that I really recommend you get and demo in your car. The bass is out of control, sounded amazing on the IDMAX and maybe even more amazing on the Black12. I'm not really that into dubstep, but this song is something else. *Mt. Eden - Sierra Leone* ( Mt Eden Dubstep - Sierra Leone [Extreme Quality] - YouTube ). The bass throughout the whole song sounds amazing, but there are a few parts that sound especially fantastic. In these parts, it literally sounds like the sub throws the bass to the front of the car, the first occurrence is at 0:51 and again at 1:12 and at other parts too. I'd imagine this entire song would sound huge in your car!

Other recommendations:
Rustie-Death Mountain Rustie - Death Mountain - YouTube I love this song, the bass doesn't sound real deep or defined, it sounds kind of airy-or bubbly- but the song as a whole sounds great and it moves fast.

Depeche Mode-Wrong Depeche Mode - Wrong - YouTube The music video is super trippy, but when my installer was playing this song and had my BitOne hooked up to his laptop, I was getting some nice 20hz from my Black12 on this song. Great sounding song, deep bass, ur IDMAX in ur 2.5cuft box will probably sound killer on this.

Kavinsky-Nightcall Kavinsky - Nightcall (Drive Original Movie Soundtrack) - YouTube From the Drive soundtrack. The bass in this song sounds real deep and loud. Super good song to drive to haha  

M83-Midnight City M83 - Midnight City - YouTube This song has great production SQ, would probably sound good even in a ****ty system, but really shines on a good system, and has some nice deep bass.

Dangermouse and Sparklehorse - Revenge Dark Night of the Soul - Revenge - YouTube Sounds super amazing on my system. The bass isn't anything special, but it's such a great sounding song and super chill-great for losing your thoughts to.

Apparat-Goodbye Apparat - Goodbye ft. Soap&Skin - YouTube Heard this song on an episode of Breaking Bad, something to do with Gus, anyways, this song gives me goosebumps everytime I listen to it in my system.

Crystal Castles. So many great songs with awesome sounding bass. A few of there songs sound super harsh tho so watch out for those and there music videos are freakin weird. But "Magic Spells" "Knights" "Affection" "Suffocation" "Wrath of God" all sound great, pretty dancy, but also chill, and great bass.

Eskmo-Cloudlight Eskmo-Cloudlight Ridiculous bass, sounds huge and deep.

Not sure what your taste in music is, mine is pretty open, these songs are great standalone songs, especially in a good system and they are some of my go to songs for when I get a new system, and I can't wait to hear them on a properly built box. I'm going to do the 2.5cuft @ 28hz, I've decided. My installer comes back from Australia tomorrow, hopefully it will happen sometime next week. Hope I didn't overload you with songs. Til next time


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## loudnproud808 (Apr 3, 2013)

Hoptologist said:


> Once again thank you for taking the time to try all those songs out and report back on them. I'm glad to hear they all sounded amazing in your boxes. The problem I had was mainly the SQ part of it, the sub sounded amazing with most songs, but the ones I listed stood out as having a hard time, the sub didn't sound fast enough, or like it had room to breathe; it sounded muddy. Which was probably a fault of the smaller ported box.


IDMAXs are fast ! in the wrong box they sound "muddy", as im sure all do 

in time i will test those songs , i love to test my sub on other music astray from my usual hip hop and r&b .. i think its more of a test , rap is generally too easy ! 

Any way im very interested in how u will like the [email protected] ,witch i am very very sure you should try this before you rid your idmax ,if u think it was loud b4 it will seriously create an earthquake in this box and sound beautiful doing so. Their saying for the sub says it effortlessly creates extreme deep bass at extreme SPL levels , i thought not so much in the [email protected] wich i love anyway, but the [email protected] is pure bliss  i think its actually like 2.55 ! but the specs are listed on their website for the port dimensions wich are the circle ports , i went with a single slot port even tho my dealer recomended the circle ones , i wanted to look cool with the slot port :laugh: 

seriously try it , it may need some time to re adjust and break in to the new box as i have heard this before, when i originally went from [email protected] to [email protected] i had thought i lost SPL - BUT, everyday after the first it had got violently louder and could be felt much more and altho im not sure wich box is louder over all the bigger deeper seems allot louder because its doing it with much deeper bass and shakes everything much more , i feel like i got an 18 back there.. give it a week or 2 to grow into its new box and u should be amazed at the difference, its like night and day to me..

let me know how u like it !


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

loudnproud808 said:


> IDMAXs are fast ! in the wrong box they sound "muddy", as im sure all do
> 
> in time i will test those songs , i love to test my sub on other music astray from my usual hip hop and r&b .. i think its more of a test , rap is generally too easy !
> 
> ...


I'll definitely post back how I like it after I get it done, but it might be a week or 2 at least. I love how tactile the IDMAX sounded, the Black12 is smoother in comparison, but even in the sealed box, the Black12 gets deep and low. They are both top notch woofers. I'd love to have them both in my trunk and flip between them with a magical switch lol.

I like hiphop and some R&B too, but mostly the newer _chill-electronic-fuzed R&B, whatever you can call it,_ from artists like Jai Paul, SBTRKT, the Weeknd... like this Thundercat: "Heartbreaks + Setbacks" | Tracks | Pitchfork or Jai Paul: "Jasmine" | Tracks | Pitchfork and I'm beyond stoked for the new Daft Punk album coming out from listening to this 1min teaser Daft Punk Pharrell SNL Ad - YouTube

For hiphop I really like Atmosphere (his new album sounds real good in my system), Living Legends, Grouch and Eligh, CunninLynguists, MF Doom, Souls of Mischief, etc

But yeah, listen to the songs I posted in my other post and let me know how they sound when you get some time


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## loudnproud808 (Apr 3, 2013)

Hoptologist said:


> I'll definitely post back how I like it after I get it done, but it might be a week or 2 at least. I love how tactile the IDMAX sounded, the Black12 is smoother in comparison, but even in the sealed box, the Black12 gets deep and low. They are both top notch woofers. I'd love to have them both in my trunk and flip between them with a magical switch lol.
> 
> I like hiphop and some R&B too, but mostly the newer _chill-electronic-fuzed R&B, whatever you can call it,_ from artists like Jai Paul, SBTRKT, the Weeknd... like this Thundercat: "Heartbreaks + Setbacks" | Tracks | Pitchfork or Jai Paul: "Jasmine" | Tracks | Pitchfork and I'm beyond stoked for the new Daft Punk album coming out from listening to this 1min teaser Daft Punk Pharrell SNL Ad - YouTube
> 
> ...


yea i like atmospheres old sh*t , and grouch and eligh as well , eligh got some instrumental albums (gandalfs beat machine 1&2&3) those sound pretty cool 

Why dont you see how your Arc plays this 
Kafani- No about it (deep as F*CK , i think if i had a bigger box tuned to like 25hrx it would be even better , but for example your [email protected] would probly sound sh*t.. [email protected] is moving lots of air 

kali cash- bust it wide open ( your average loud , something u can try when u get your new box , im guessing the arc shud slam this too)

drumma boy- dis gurl (very loud on both my boxes  , sh*t just slams, i like to show off my sounds with this )

mouse on the track - lumba ( everything shakes solid metal and all , winsheild has a 1/4 inch throw  and besides this song is awesome )

beatking - hammer ( the 32 hits the higher note louder , whereas the 28 hits the lower better , both are violently loud )


^ any way thats like an idea of what my sub sees every day , altho i have lots of other challenging songs for my sub , this is just simple rap bass , i play R&B and local/reggae too , but im curious how your Arc will match up to the IDMAX with these songs and yours, like i said songs like " lumba" my IDMAX absolutely kills , my shirt moves as if the port was rite infront of it, i may not be able to do steve meade hair tricks , but its something like that, i think if when i am complete with my sound proofing it will increase air movement greatly inside the car , i feel like i loose allot from my trunk lid , i need to get it to close tighter .. the more i seal things up the better it gets ..


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

Moderat's album is great.. one of my top 10 all time favs! Also, check out some albums from Modeselektor and Apparat - they converged to release one album as Moderat (*Mode*selektor + Appa*rat* but have multiple albums of their own.

This thread makes me anxious to finish my custom 10" IDMAX projects and give them a listen. I've got 270 dollars invested in the motors and soft parts for both and am just waiting on the coils to get here so I can glue them together.


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## loudnproud808 (Apr 3, 2013)

hurrication said:


> Moderat's album is great.. one of my top 10 all time favs! Also, check out some albums from Modeselektor and Apparat - they converged to release one album as Moderat (*Mode*selektor + Appa*rat* but have multiple albums of their own.
> 
> This thread makes me anxious to finish my custom 10" IDMAX projects and give them a listen. I've got 270 dollars invested in the motors and soft parts for both and am just waiting on the coils to get here so I can glue them together.



is that a custom cone or like an eclipse cone or something ?? and is that just the original motor or what did u do with it ? thats very interesting


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## hurrication (Dec 19, 2011)

They are new "TC / Stryke AV" style spun aluminum cones. The motors are original d4 motors with regular 12 spoke baskets mounted. The voice coils are copper with a winding height that will yield about 26-ish one way linear xmax.

I also have a pair of arc flatline motors that I pulled apart to put aluminum magnet-ID shorting rings in, and they are getting the 12" baskets off of the idmaxes with blue/black carbon fiber cones!


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Sound Suggestions said:


> Hi, The W6 on that list were probably the 2nd best sounding after ther IDmax, it is buttery smooth and digs low effortlessly...lacked a little in the 60-80hz departmemt, No big issue now since I now prefer my subs crossed 60hz and down now...I had an Lrx5.1k about a two years ago, I sold that one (crazy me!) I had decided to use two Arc Audio Amps 4200/2300se's wich were really good...but I somehow always missed the Audison (have sinced purchased another one!) In the process of acquiring all the piece for my next build...so it's not currently installed (the last one got warm...nothing crazy) my real debate is do I install my new 12" IDmax or buy the Morel Ultimo!?...time will tell
> 
> I did run 2 arc series 10"s when I first hooked up the Arc amps....those subs were also quite nice


That's what I hear about the W6... I always hear it described as buttery or wet with great SQ. I wonder how the new version compares to the older one.



loudnproud808 said:


> yea i like atmospheres old sh*t , and grouch and eligh as well , eligh got some instrumental albums (gandalfs beat machine 1&2&3) those sound pretty cool
> 
> Why dont you see how your Arc plays this
> Kafani- No about it (deep as F*CK , i think if i had a bigger box tuned to like 25hrx it would be even better , but for example your [email protected] would probly sound sh*t.. [email protected] is moving lots of air
> ...


I'll listen to your songs and let you know how they sound on the Black12 asap. 



hurrication said:


> Moderat's album is great.. one of my top 10 all time favs! Also, check out some albums from Modeselektor and Apparat - they converged to release one album as Moderat (*Mode*selektor + Appa*rat* but have multiple albums of their own.
> 
> This thread makes me anxious to finish my custom 10" IDMAX projects and give them a listen. I've got 270 dollars invested in the motors and soft parts for both and am just waiting on the coils to get here so I can glue them together.


Didn't know that about Moderat! I heard that Moderat album before I heard Apparat, who I first heard on Breaking Bad, it was an intense moment. 

Looks like a fun project


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## Bluenote (Aug 29, 2008)

hurrication said:


> They are new "TC / Stryke AV" style spun aluminum cones. The motors are original d4 motors with regular 12 spoke baskets mounted. The voice coils are copper with a winding height that will yield about 26-ish one way linear xmax.
> 
> I also have a pair of arc flatline motors that I pulled apart to put aluminum magnet-ID shorting rings in, and they are getting the 12" baskets off of the idmaxes with blue/black carbon fiber cones!


Those are sweet!


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## loudnproud808 (Apr 3, 2013)

hurrication said:


> They are new "TC / Stryke AV" style spun aluminum cones. The motors are original d4 motors with regular 12 spoke baskets mounted. The voice coils are copper with a winding height that will yield about 26-ish one way linear xmax.
> 
> I also have a pair of arc flatline motors that I pulled apart to put aluminum magnet-ID shorting rings in, and they are getting the 12" baskets off of the idmaxes with blue/black carbon fiber cones!


Cool , do think this would be an improvement from the TC subwoofer ? and will that cone be better than the idmax itself ? i noticed the xmax improved slightly im guessing the VC is an upgrade from the original as well ? mannnn i wish i had the time /space/and money to make my own custom subs , i had seen a custom rockford t2 with a alpine type x cone , i thought that looked pretty cool


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

It sounds like you simply prefer higher Q subs than the Black. It's VERY clean and clean doesn't sound as loud as something with a little even-order distortion.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

125hz sounds pretty high. What are your HP your mids, also 125? Try lowering both to like 70-80hz. I have an 07 Accord Coupe w a w12gti. I'm crossed at 70hz right now and i like it quite a bit. You'd be surprised how much of the bass quality is due to your midbass.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Put that IDmax in a larger box and watch it shine. Try 2cuft sealed....enjoy!


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

teldzc1 said:


> 125hz sounds pretty high. What are your HP your mids, also 125? Try lowering both to like 70-80hz. I have an 07 Accord Coupe w a w12gti. I'm crossed at 70hz right now and i like it quite a bit. You'd be surprised how much of the bass quality is due to your midbass.


My bad, I don't know if that's what it was at first or if I misunderstood, but I recently had my installer do an RTA and retuned everything. Sub is crossed over at about 72hz, and the xover point between my mids and tweeters is about 3k. The RTA showed the Black12 has a significant dip around 50-55hz in my car. I'm still planning on getting a larger ported box made for the IDMAX (2.55cuft tuned to 28hz). Anyone have any slotted port dimensions (port length/width)... or know where any of the old ID box designs went?



ousooner2 said:


> Put that IDmax in a larger box and watch it shine. Try 2cuft sealed....enjoy!


2cuft sealed for a 12"? I thought 1.5cuft was the sweet spot for sealed... anyways I love the Black12 sealed, but I want to try the IDMAX in a properly sized ported box one last time before doing 2 Black12 sealed which is what I eventually want to do.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

IDMAX is my favorite sub of all time. The JL W6 great, as well, but I've only seen/heard them applied high end "bass heavy" systems where the main music choice would be rap or electronic, unfortunately - but very clear, accurate, and smooth. I've unfortunately never gotten to hear many so-called high-end SQ subs in anything but an infinite baffle application - not sealed, not ported. I'd love to hear a ARC Black, Morel Ultimo, etc. But man, for me someone would have to kill it to beat an IDMAX as my ideal sub...

(Sorry... I am of no help here.)


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

loudnproud808 said:


> Any way im very interested in how u will like the [email protected]


Do you have the box/port dimensions or a box design sheet for your [email protected] box? 

I've been putting it off since I've been loving my Arc Black12, but I do still want to try it out!


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

sirbOOm said:


> IDMAX is my favorite sub of all time. The JL W6 great, as well, but I've only seen/heard them applied high end "bass heavy" systems where the main music choice would be rap or electronic, unfortunately - but very clear, accurate, and smooth. I've unfortunately never gotten to hear many so-called high-end SQ subs in anything but an infinite baffle application - not sealed, not ported. I'd love to hear a ARC Black, Morel Ultimo, etc. But man, for me someone would have to kill it to beat an IDMAX as my ideal sub...
> 
> (Sorry... I am of no help here.)


What kind of box did you have your IDMAX in, or was it IB?


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## loudnproud808 (Apr 3, 2013)

Hoptologist said:


> What kind of box did you have your IDMAX in, or was it IB?


ok so is IB like bandpass , i always get this confused .. ?

anyway its a slot ported box , and i got my car taken away by cops a week ago , so yea .. I MISS MY IDMAX [email protected] 

try it out output is awesome and hit notes all around well ...

they took my car and my 12 looks like i gotta get a new car , and a MAX15 at like 26hrz 

but u make me really want to try those Arc's , u say they can dig down low ? anyway try the [email protected] for the max , it is the best single sub or any sub(s) i have heard in my entire life ,ofcourse this would be compared to mainly mainstream ( rockford t1s t2s, jl w6v2s w7s,alpine type x type r, boston acoustics g5? and that oval shaped 1 too, and the kicker l7 , mtx 9500, many soundstreams, and ,many Digital designs ...)
^ i havent had the oppurtunity to hear any dyn audio or morel focal Arc audio etc.. Wish i could !

but yes try it in the box , sorry i dont kno the exact specs to it , they do have info on the site tho for the [email protected], and i am very curious as to it manages to your expectations and also vs the Arc, i would be hoping the Max comes out the winner ofcourse 

DO IT !


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

loudnproud808 said:


> ok so is IB like bandpass , i always get this confused .. ?
> 
> anyway its a slot ported box , and i got my car taken away by cops a week ago , so yea .. I MISS MY IDMAX [email protected]
> 
> ...


IB = Infinite Baffle

Man, that SUX to hear ;(

At least you have your [email protected] car still right? Still...

On the new ID site I can't find any box designs, only these specs for the [email protected] ported: port dimensions 4" ID x 15" long ...which my installer said sounded way too small, unless it was supposed to be 2 x [4" ID x 15" long] but nowhere does it say that.


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## loudnproud808 (Apr 3, 2013)

Hoptologist said:


> IB = Infinite Baffle
> 
> Man, that SUX to hear ;(
> 
> ...



yes i do still have my [email protected] .. BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHA 

im sorry i cant help u on the exact specs of the ports and the box design , i do kno that wether u have a dual or single voice coil they list different boxes and different frequencies , 
^ what i do kno is this - when i had my box made the first time , i asked for a slot port design , and he asked why ? i told him because it looks cool  and why not ? 
^ He told me that there is a reason that ID lists in with circular ports and that he would prefer to use circular ports for that box/sub as it is recomeneded and he infact testifies to that it sounds better..

ofcourse i cant say cuz i have not heard the difference but thats the theory..

im guessing its just simple math i dont understand to calculate the port dimentions into the slot port design , im sure if u call them up that they would be able to whip up the specs or email..

and seriously , try this box . i had been turning JL fanboys into cry babies with it :biggrinflip:


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## wizzi001 (Apr 29, 2011)

I bet those JL fanboys still have their car though.


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## loudnproud808 (Apr 3, 2013)

wizzi001 said:


> I bet those JL fanboys still have their car though.



i bet i still got my other car that just so happens to have an IDMAX12, and that the cart that got took by pigs was a nice nissan altima 2005 with a ****load of rammatt and a very nice set up , its so awesome every JL fanboy that eve heard it would be in awe and wonder " what kind of mids and highs do u have ? ' where i would then respond in saying image dynamics , and they had no clue how the hell i was able to get a pair of speakers to play that loud and clear at the same time , and how the hell my 1 12 was so loud clear and deep..

yea i dont have that car no more.. 

BUT i do just so happen to have my Integra that is allot more pimped out the the altima , and just so happens to have a IDMAX12 also , and it is also powered by 1200watts wich is crazy because CLEARLY and IDMAX does NOT like anything over 1000watts, infact u shud probly not exceed 800 ( and this is true because i SLAM the living hell out both my subs daily, and there totally fine  !!

while also having a pair of focal VR30s in the car that i do have , and this car is sounding so beautifully and most JL or Rockford or Alpine fanboys are so impressed that they begin to take interest in companies such as ID Focal ETC , where as SOME stay stupid and get angry and swear to GOD that " NO , NO.. JL is the *BEST* while having no reason or argument how or why it is but CLEARLY IT IS , infact its so good that when our friends sit in my car and say that my 12 is louder than the JL 12 and sounds so much better , but clearly im wrong and everyone likes the sound of mine better , but STILL JL IS UNBEATABLE , and our ears are hearing incorrectly " ETC.. JL is so good that they cant even explain how good it is..litterally..
'


JL makes allot of good products, while being known as expensive it does still make a great product for the price to the normal enthusiast , BUT many believe they can find something of the same nature for half the price elsewhere

In my experience , NO JL SUB has EVER beat my 12MAX, EXCEPT 1 13.5w7 , and this was a little louder , no single 12 i have ever heard has been as louder than the IDMAX12 or sounded as good doing it 

And my Problem with " JL fanboys " are the ones that think they kno so much about audio and that JL is simply the ABSOLUTE BEST , in every possible category - spl/value/SQ/ and anything u can possibly think of , its almost like a beats by dre thing to me.. i kno many very educated Audio experts chose the W7 or W6v2 as a sub of choice but these people will also generally place the MAX as the closest thing to it ( and vice versa for IDMAX people )
^ i how ever, in my opinion prefer my IDMAX over W7 or W6v2 ... very much so ..

Dont get it twisted , when i say "JL fanboys" i mean the obsessed idiots that make a great name look bad and dont know very much about audio, period and are to ignorant to accept any possible thing even coming close to there beloved w7 

as for my car(s) good thing i got 2 ..or had 2 atleast.. but i still got 1 at the very least and a MAX12 to go along with it.. gee it wudnt be so bad if i was a spoiled little Btch kid , but ive had one of the hardest upbringings out of anyone i kno and i just so happen to have made a somewhat successful life out of nothing , i got Fs in school but an A+ in the streets , its a shame that i put my skills towards a good use in an attempt to make it out this life , but DEA,and rats and snitches and haters alike do a great job of Fcking that up , *U sir MUST be just like them * wich is fine , because i work hard and i will have a new car soon enuff with a IDMAX15


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## wizzi001 (Apr 29, 2011)

Lol pigs. The police just do not take a car for no reason. You were doing dirt and got caught. By the way you speak I bet you have had more then a few run ins with the law.


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## ou812 (Oct 25, 2008)

loudnproud808 said:


> i bet i still got my other car that just so happens to have an IDMAX12, and that the cart that got took by pigs was a nice nissan altima 2005 with a ****load of rammatt and a very nice set up , its so awesome every JL fanboy that eve heard it would be in awe and wonder " what kind of mids and highs do u have ? ' where i would then respond in saying image dynamics , and they had no clue how the hell i was able to get a pair of speakers to play that loud and clear at the same time , and how the hell my 1 12 was so loud clear and deep..
> 
> yea i dont have that car no more..
> 
> ...


Well....alright then....


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

So... 

I definitely want to try the IDMAX in either a (a) proper 2.55cuft ported box or (b) 1.5cuft sealed one last time, before I try selling it again and say goodbye 

First, though, I think I'm going to sell my Audison LRX 5.1k and try some ARC amps: the KS 1200.1, and maybe the 600.2 or 300.4. The LRX has served me well for the past couple years, but it runs real hot, and I love the thrill of trying new stuff. 

After that I'll shift my focus to the IDMAX again. Part of the reason why I think I've been putting it off is because I love the Black so much


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## loudnproud808 (Apr 3, 2013)

wizzi001 said:


> Lol pigs. The police just do not take a car for no reason. You were doing dirt and got caught. By the way you speak I bet you have had more then a few run ins with the law.


of course i was doing dirt , how else wud i have got my car taken away? and yes i have been arrested more than 100 times in my life , but who are u to judge ? that would make u no better than I .. I had a ruff life and atleast have learned to change nearly every negative part of the life that i was born into , im a survivor not a victim . and besides breaking 1 law, i am a very nice person that hurts no one, takes from no one, and helps many , and i just so happen to love Car Audio .. i am a man trying to support his family and make it in this world , dont need to be a baller, but a nice stereo will suffice 

i have nothing against police , cops , dea, whatever , there are many good police and also bad ones too, the ones that hit me are crooked themselves , I am like a local hero in my neck of the woods and thats why i refer to these police as "pigs" because they did nobody any good in doing what they did but themselves ! 

NOW THEN - lets jus keep it to car audio u typical JL FANBOY epper::z::z::dead_horse::loser1::rolleyes2::guitarist::thumbsup::bash::lol::smash::kaboom::rifle::laugh4::2thumbsup::biggrinflip:


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## loudnproud808 (Apr 3, 2013)

Hoptologist said:


> So...
> 
> I definitely want to try the IDMAX in either a (a) proper 2.55cuft ported box or (b) 1.5cuft sealed one last time, before I try selling it again and say goodbye
> 
> ...



very interested in the fact that this arc is making u leave the idmax on the shelf ! for now .. but let us entertain the idea that it is possible (very) that u have not heard the IDMAX at its best , and quite possibly , nowhere near it , and that theres a good chance u may like it as much , or even more , aswell as the fact that the MAX has more output ..? i believe u said it did . ? 

either way , im sure u will end up liking it more than before , for sure. 

i cant say for 1.5 sealed , but i can for 1.3 , it sounded spectacular altho i felt it was starving for a bigger box !


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The world doesn't revolve around output...

The Black is a better sounding, more accurate sub than the Max. That doesn't mean the Max sucks, just that the Black does some things better. If he's getting all the output he needs or wants then why go back to the sub that doesn't sound as good or needs a MUCH larger enclosure to even get close? That doesn't make sense. 



OP - if you're going to try Arc amps, just jump to the SEs. It's worth the extra over the KSs.


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## montyburns (Jan 3, 2006)

Hoptologist, 
I have a couple ideas for you. 
Do you still have your 1.8 ported box? Measure the port length and diameter. We can't assume the shop ported it right, if they couldn't even build it the right size.
Also, sealing up the port on the 1.8 would be close to ideal for a sealed box.
Both of those will cost nothing and take a few minutes.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> The world doesn't revolve around output...
> 
> The Black is a better sounding, more accurate sub than the Max. That doesn't mean the Max sucks, just that the Black does some things better. If he's getting all the output he needs or wants then why go back to the sub that doesn't sound as good or needs a MUCH larger enclosure to even get close? That doesn't make sense.
> 
> ...


I'm saving my money up and keeping an eye on the classifieds for se series, but for the sub amp wouldn't the ks1200.1 be real good, its perfect at 4ohms for 1 black, and perfect for 2 if I get another in the future


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

montyburns said:


> Hoptologist,
> I have a couple ideas for you.
> Do you still have your 1.8 ported box? Measure the port length and diameter. We can't assume the shop ported it right, if they couldn't even build it the right size.
> Also, sealing up the port on the 1.8 would be close to ideal for a sealed box.
> Both of those will cost nothing and take a few minutes.


what would an ideal port size be for that box? Im down to seal it up, just screw some mdf in over the port right?


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## montyburns (Jan 3, 2006)

You should download WinISD.. its good for simple calculations.. lets you model response. Not really a real world model, but good for calculating Qtc in sealed boxes or port sizes. Its free.

I would stuff the port with underpants before I got the screw gun. Stuff it tightly or you might end up with a resistively tuned port (JL used to do it on some old 8" boxed systems).


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

^Ok I'll get WinISD and see if I can figure it out. Haha @ underpants


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## thebookfreak58 (Jun 18, 2012)

Hmmm....

I have both (IDMAX12/Black12) these subs sitting in their boxes and a 1.27cuft box to put them in with 750W on tap.

Unsure which to try


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## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

Both! Box is a tad bigger than most put the Black in. And about min for the Max right?


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

thebookfreak58 said:


> Hmmm....
> 
> I have both (IDMAX12/Black12) these subs sitting in their boxes and a 1.27cuft box to put them in with 750W on tap.
> 
> Unsure which to try


Both, and then report back on the differences! 

I was planning on still trying the idmax in a dif ported box, but I think ill try it in a 1.5cuft box instead since I remember loving it sealed. Then ill compare it with the black and keep the one I like more, unless I end up needing to sell the black first, although today I was just thinking how amazing my black is so im not sure what ill do.



Schizm said:


> Both! Box is a tad bigger than most put the Black in. And about min for the Max right?


Yeah, I think the absolute min for the idmax is 1cuft, at least on one of the spec sheets ive seen, but imo that's too small.


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## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

What voice coils do you have on that black?

I have 2 d4s and 2 2300ses so I can either hook em to 1 amp together at 1ohm or 4ohms or to both amps at 2ohms. Don't think I want to run 1 ohm but using both amps will show them both up to 1200+ watts LOL. Oops


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## thebookfreak58 (Jun 18, 2012)

Schizm said:


> Both! Box is a tad bigger than most put the Black in. And about min for the Max right?


I'm hoping the bigger box helps with the loudness and lows?



Hoptologist said:


> Both, and then report back on the differences!
> 
> I was planning on still trying the idmax in a dif ported box, but I think ill try it in a 1.5cuft box instead since I remember loving it sealed. Then ill compare it with the black and keep the one I like more, unless I end up needing to sell the black first, although today I was just thinking how amazing my black is so im not sure what ill do.
> 
> ...


That's what I'm worried about, the box is a little tight for the IDMAX...



Schizm said:


> What voice coils do you have on that black?
> 
> I have 2 d4s and 2 2300ses so I can either hook em to 1 amp together at 1ohm or 4ohms or to both amps at 2ohms. Don't think I want to run 1 ohm but using both amps will show them both up to 1200+ watts LOL. Oops


Both subs are D4's.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The Black is fine with a little extra room. Also remember, the Black is cleaner and in a much more suited enclosure so the Max is going to be peakier and "sound" louder because it's not as clean. 

If I had room for a pair of Black 12s I'd be doing it.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

thebookfreak58 said:


> I'm hoping the bigger box helps with the loudness and lows?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No need to worry about the lows. In my 1.1~1.2cuft box, the Black is a low end monster. Almost sounds ported. It's awesome in the lows 

Edit- when my idmax was sealed it was in a 1.37cuft box, and I loved it.


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## Sound Suggestions (Dec 5, 2010)

quality_sound said:


> The Black is fine with a little extra room. Also remember, the Black is cleaner and in a much more suited enclosure so the Max is going to be peakier and "sound" louder because it's not as clean.
> 
> If I had room for a pair of Black 12s I'd be doing it.


Huh? Couldn't disagree more with you! Have you owed or heard an Idmax before? Because peeky and not clean are the last words that I would use to properly describe the sound of an idmax...forceful violent but yet delicate buttery smooth would be a little more accurate description lol

I personally haven't heard the Black series but I did own 2x10" Arc series...which were pretty good (seem to do everything right)

My two cents, Carry on


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## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

Sound Suggestions said:


> Huh? Couldn't disagree more with you! Have you owed or heard an Idmax before? Because peeky and not clean are the last words that I would use to properly describe the sound of an idmax...forceful violent but yet delicate buttery smooth would be a little more accurate description lol
> 
> I personally haven't heard the Black series but I did own 2x10" Arc series...which were pretty good (seem to do everything right)
> 
> My two cents, Carry on


I took what he wrote as a direct comparison and only described the Max that way when compared to the Black


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Sound Suggestions said:


> Huh? Couldn't disagree more with you! Have you owed or heard an Idmax before? Because peeky and not clean are the last words that I would use to properly describe the sound of an idmax...forceful violent but yet delicate buttery smooth would be a little more accurate description lol
> 
> I personally haven't heard the Black series but I did own 2x10" Arc series...which were pretty good (seem to do everything right)
> 
> My two cents, Carry on


Yes I have, twice. I'm not saying the Max is peaky. I'm saying that putting it into an enclosure that's too small will MAKE it peaky.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Schizm said:


> I took what he wrote as a direct comparison and only described the Max that way when compared to the Black


And with the Black in a much more suitable enclosure than the Max will be in.


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## Gary Mac (May 12, 2009)

Just installed a black 12, it's only a .85ft3 box tho. I'm surprised with how loud it is compared to the arc 12. Not blending yet tho, need to play with it.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The Black is better at everything that the Arc series but it's not going to blend well in that small and enclosure. You need 1.1-1.25ft^3 at a minimum to really get it to sing.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

I'm going to switch to my IDMAX12 for a while. I've had the Black12 for over 8 months now, I know it pretty well, but I have some extra funds and I'm going to change it up again.

I' had the IDMAX in a 1.37cuft sealed box about 4 years ago and I loved it. I've also had the IDMAX in a 1.88cuft ported box @ 32hz more recent than the sealed, and I also loved it, but not as much as when it was in the sealed box.

I'm leaning towards a 1.5cuft sealed box for the IDMAX, but I haven't dismissed a 2.5cuft ported @ 28hz yet. Any last words before I do the sealed box?


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## jbowers (May 3, 2009)

Hoptologist said:


> I'm going to switch to my IDMAX12 for a while. I've had the Black12 for over 8 months now, I know it pretty well, but I have some extra funds and I'm going to change it up again.
> 
> I' had the IDMAX in a 1.37cuft sealed box about 4 years ago and I loved it. I've also had the IDMAX in a 1.88cuft ported box @ 32hz more recent than the sealed, and I also loved it, but not as much as when it was in the sealed box.
> 
> I'm leaning towards a 1.5cuft sealed box for the IDMAX, but I haven't dismissed a 2.5cuft ported @ 28hz yet. Any last words before I do the sealed box?


All we're talking about here is wood, sweat and time. Build 'em both mang.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

jbowers said:


> All we're talking about here is wood, sweat and time. Build 'em both mang.


Yeah, but I can't find any of the 2.5cuft box designs that used to be on the old ID site. I've found a few designs searching google etc that we could probably use, but none of the old official ones. I'd prefer a slot port design, although I'm not sure why. I could probably msg Matt or Eric but I'm sure they're busy with new things. Sealed is simple


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## thebookfreak58 (Jun 18, 2012)

Hoptologist said:


> Yeah, but I can't find any of the 2.5cuft box designs that used to be on the old ID site. I've found a few designs searching google etc that we could probably use, but none of the old official ones. I'd prefer a slot port design, although I'm not sure why. I could probably msg Matt or Eric but I'm sure they're busy with new things. Sealed is simple


http://www.pimpmysound.com/downloads/idmax12v3d4.pdf


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

thebookfreak58 said:


> http://www.pimpmysound.com/downloads/idmax12v3d4.pdf


Aye, that's not the one I'm looking for :d

They used to have box designs in the Tech page of the old site, for all different types of boxes.


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## montyburns (Jan 3, 2006)

You preferred sealed in the past, and it probably doesn't get better than 1.5 sealed.

I heard one in 1,25, and thought it sounded too small.

1.5 (1.38 net) doesn't model up very differently from 1.8-2


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## thebookfreak58 (Jun 18, 2012)

Re-measured sub box. Looking around 1.3cuft...

One gotcha though, I made my outer baffle very snug for the IDMAX. And since it's a FG box, to fit the Black, I have to remove the black surround rubber thing that's protecting the mounting holes. Then it fits no problem.

So, will the IDMAX be ok in a smaller than ideal box (I'm planning on stuffing it with insulation batting)...?


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## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

thebookfreak58 said:


> Re-measured sub box. Looking around 1.3cuft...
> 
> One gotcha though, I made my outer baffle very snug for the IDMAX. And since it's a FG box, to fit the Black, I have to remove the black surround rubber thing that's protecting the mounting holes. Then it fits no problem.
> 
> So, will the IDMAX be ok in a smaller than ideal box (I'm planning on stuffing it with insulation batting)...?


I would say with a pound or two of polyfil it should be about where they say idmax's are happy with minimally


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

thebookfreak58 said:


> Re-measured sub box. Looking around 1.3cuft...
> 
> One gotcha though, I made my outer baffle very snug for the IDMAX. And since it's a FG box, to fit the Black, I have to remove the black surround rubber thing that's protecting the mounting holes. Then it fits no problem.
> 
> So, will the IDMAX be ok in a smaller than ideal box (I'm planning on stuffing it with insulation batting)...?


Remember what I said about it getting peaky in a box that's too small?


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## thebookfreak58 (Jun 18, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> Remember what I said about it getting peaky in a box that's too small?


Agreed. But practically...I don't have a lot of choice 

If it comes down to it, I can build a new box, but I'd rather avoid that...


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## Schizm (Jun 12, 2011)

thebookfreak58 said:


> Agreed. But practically...I don't have a lot of choice
> 
> If it comes down to it, I can build a new box, but I'd rather avoid that...


Might be worth building a simple proper sized sealed box out of mdf to compare how it sounds...

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

I can say this, if you liked the black in its proper enclosure, you WON'T like the Max in one that's too small. To very different sounds


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## SilkySlim (Oct 24, 2012)

Sealed works so much better typically in a car environment SQ wise I feel. I do like the IDMAX but have not seen or heard the black. Like any sub it can react much different depending on the enclosure. It is a very FUN sub lots of dynamics and still good at SQ.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Ported works just fine in a car as well. It takes more work to get right, but because its more adjustable you can actually get it to work better than sealed if you do it right. Sealed it just a TON easier and faster.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Been busy, but this week should be better.

I've read a bazillion times that 1.5cuft is the sweet spot for IDMAX12 sealed, is that net or gross? I'm assuming gross.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

It's ALWAYS net.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Got out my good ol IDMAX last night. Snapped a few pictures.







The last pic shows a skinny nick in the magnet, that has no effect on performance right?


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

That nick is going to screw the alignment of the coil up so you might want to just send it over to me. Yep... giving it to me is the only way that sub can possibly live on without exploding on the next 33 Hz note it attempts to reproduce on a full moon, my friend.

PM me for the address.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

sirbOOm said:


> That nick is going to screw the alignment of the coil up so you might want to just send it over to me. Yep... giving it to me is the only way that sub can possibly live on without exploding on the next 33 Hz note it attempts to reproduce on a full moon, my friend.
> 
> PM me for the address.


You had me until full moon. 

So it just takes the most minute amount of mass away from the magnet, no real difference? I assume all the magnets vary in their weight by a small margin anyways yeah?


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Personally... I wouldn't be worried about it. I ran an Image Dynamics IDQ V.2 for 2 years with all kinds of damage because my dog Cody decided he wanted to eat it. Bite marks (no punctures), he pulled it off the table so it fell hard, etc. 

Sounded exactly the same as it did before the attack. Talk about subWHOOFer!

But hey... I could be wrong. I'd be wondering how that happened in the first place? You have .22 caliber bullets flying around over there or what? Gentle, buddy... gentle.


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## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

Heh, I've no idea either. I bought it used about 5 years ago locally and had it in a 1.37cuft sealed box. A different shop talked me into going ported, about 3-4 years ago, but after they made and installed the box for me, they told me there was something wrong with the way it sounded and needed to be reconed. 

I've always wondered if they did something to it that resulted in the need of a recone, my whole experience with them was shady, and they are referred to as the best around here by some.

Anyways, I mailed it to Image Dynamics (this was still 3-4 years ago) and they reconed it for me for free and mailed it back for free as well (thanks again Eric and Matt). Best customer service I've ever experienced. 

Since then it went straight back into that ported box and stayed there ever since. 

I always preferred it in that sealed box. When I went with the Arc Audio Black 12, I was able to compare it directly to the ported box, since I couldn't remember enough about the sealed to be specific. Now, I'll be able to compare my sealed Black12 to the sealed IDMAX, hopefully in a week or so.


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