# 2014 Avalon Limited Build



## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

So I literally just picked this up a few hours ago. Since I work at the dealership I got it from I went right from signing papers to the back for applying ceramic protection. One old lady owner, loaded and only 35k miles.


































For the first 2 months or so it’ll move a little slow but after the VA meet in September the Malibu will finally be retired and most of the equipment will get transferred into this car. It’s also going to be my daily driver so down time/disassembly will be minimal. 

Car:
2014 Avalon with JBL/nav system 

Goals:
Supreme SQ while keeping as much useable/cargo space as possible and use OEM speaker locations and minimal modifications 

Equipment:
Head unit: Kenwood Excelon Reference DMX-1057XR
Processor: JL TWK88 
Amps: Alpine PDX-V9 & F4
Front Stage: SI TM65mk4, SI M3 Carbon, SI M25mk2
Sub: SI… either SQL 15 or SQL 12 

All of the equipment, with the exception of the front stage & subs is currently installed in my Malibu. Once the Sept VA meet is over I’ll start pulling gear.

The decision on sub will depend on where there’s available room for it. I’m hoping for spare tire well but I’m limited on mounting depth there (I’ll measure that out in the next few days), if that doesn’t work either side of the trunk might work.

Most people will say you can’t replace the
radio in the JBL/Synthesis cars and, from what I’ve read, it’s because the circuit board for the passenger airbag light is integrated into the board with the tuning knob so it can’t be transferred to the new dash kit. So after some investigation I am under the understanding that the plug for the airbag light is the same for all models of radios so I procured a non-JBL radio so I can dismantle THAT & I can keep my original radio intact.










I should be able to start accruing install parts for this over the next few weeks so this will hopefully start moving along about the end of September. I’ll update as it moves along.


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## rhoderage (7 mo ago)

Wow score on the car, what a great looking 2014!

Tuned in for the build...


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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

That space you have right there by your ski pass looks perfect for a single 15 or dual 12 SQLs sealed. All you need is around 10" depth and go as wide and tall as you can. Just remember those SQLs require some power to make them jump.


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## Freakquency (8 mo ago)

Yours will be infinitely easier to work on than mine


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## Granite (Jun 3, 2020)

Always liked the stitching thru out the avalons interior. But I don’t understand what you’re doing with the head unit - you’ve swapped out it for the non jbl? You’ll have to swap the amp in the back to right, prob to pioneer? I’ve always had pioneer with non jbl nav systems in my last three Lexus sedans (which of course Toyota is almost identical). The pioneer is easy to work with. I’ve had an ml system and it wasn’t as easy unless you shell out for a pac dsp that grabs the canbus audio signal. The pac is nice, I was just turned off by its plastic enclosure - which seemed rather cheap compared to the brushed aluminum you get in mainstream dsp’s. 

Here’s a helpful link:








2013 Toyota Avalon Upgrade


Hi All, First of all thank you for a fantastic forum, incredible amount of knowledge here. Have been doing a lot of reading here and trying to get some basic understanding on what is involved in "getting better sound quality". Considering I am a real noob at this, but really hate the way factory...




www.diymobileaudio.com





I think 2014 is 4th gen like the 2013 right?


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I’m only using the airbag light from the non-JBL unit. I’ll be using my Kenwood as the new source, bypassing the OEM amp completely. On the non-JBL radio the passenger airbag light gets removed and installed into the dash kit when you replace the radio. On the JBL radios the airbag light is part of the circuit board of the radio and cannot be removed without really hacking up the original. Without that airbag light plugged in the car gets all confused and throws error codes. This way by using a donor airbag light I _should_ be able to replace the radio without throwing codes.


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## Granite (Jun 3, 2020)

Ah I see - and that’s all that will be affected? You’ll still have A/C and heat functionality? Ok after I looked at the nav it looks like the a/c controls are below. That’s a huge plus for you to have those separate. Now you can really go sq with a good signal from the kenwood. And damn when you zoom in that car is clean! You gotta love the way old ladies take care of their cars. Best way to buy used. Sounds like a fun build, keep us posted!

Edit: just wanted to say, if you’ve got an SI sql15 - go for it man. You’re never gonna have more trunk space than an Avalon.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

From what I’ve read, yes, the airbag light is the only restriction. The heat/ac is separate. With the Maestro RR any functions that run through the OEM radio are able to be accessed through the Kenwood… so I’ve been told.

I don’t have the SQL yet and I’m still on the fence between the 12 & 15 but all the modeling I’ve done shows a decent volume (and low end extension) gain with the 15 in 2cf sealed so that’s the way I’m leaning. I measured approximately 2.6-2.8 cu ft in the spare tire well but the depth is only 8”. Raising the floor 2” or so will get me the depth clearance I need PLUS allow me to mount the amps & DSP in the floor too.

As far as the car… yeah… it was TOO clean to pass up. Financially it was NOT the best time but I’ll never see a car this nice with that low mileage. It’s got no dents, dings, scratches or even stone chips. No wear on any of the seats or floor mats.


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## kattan_tha_man (Feb 2, 2021)

TheTodd said:


> So I literally just picked this up a few hours ago. Since I work at the dealership I got it from I went right from signing papers to the back for applying ceramic protection. One old lady owner, loaded and only 35k miles.
> 
> View attachment 342627
> 
> ...


That car really is a rare find. The used car everybody is looking for. "an old lady who barely drove it owned it" such sweet words. Low miles, almost certainly cared for, and it's safe to assume the previous owner didn't autocross it on the weekend.

An old person as the previous owner is the most important feature to ensure reliability, lol.


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## kattan_tha_man (Feb 2, 2021)

Granite said:


> Always liked the stitching thru out the avalons interior. But I don’t understand what you’re doing with the head unit - you’ve swapped out it for the non jbl? You’ll have to swap the amp in the back to right, prob to pioneer? I’ve always had pioneer with non jbl nav systems in my last three Lexus sedans (which of course Toyota is almost identical). The pioneer is easy to work with. I’ve had an ml system and it wasn’t as easy unless you shell out for a pac dsp that grabs the canbus audio signal. The pac is nice, I was just turned off by its plastic enclosure - which seemed rather cheap compared to the brushed aluminum you get in mainstream dsp’s.
> 
> Here’s a helpful link:
> 
> ...


My understanding is that he will mount the stock head unit out of sight but wired in to preserve air bag function and keep the annoying extra lights off in the cluster.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

Congrats on the car, great platform 👍🏻


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

kattan_tha_man said:


> My understanding is that he will mount the stock head unit out of sight but wired in to preserve air bag function and keep the annoying extra lights off in the cluster.


Nope. OEM unit will be completely removed. You can check out the Avalon install on 5-Star’s YouTube for a better description but it’s like I said above. For the non-JBL radios you have to unscrew the airbag light from the radio housing and mount it into the new dash kit. So I had to buy a different radio because the airbag light in the JBL radios cannot be removed. My Kenwood unit is the big 10” floating screen model and has the ability to access things like tire pressure, gauges & other car functions using the Idatalink Maestro RR. Therefore I do not need to keep the OEM radio for those functions.


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## Chriswilkin22 (8 mo ago)

If you aren't going to replace the headunit somehow, I would most definitely by-pass the head unit if the sound from that headunit if it is just as dirty as the Camry JBL system. 

Just helped a friend start upgrading his sound and that headunit sounds like ****.


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## M_Mark28 (Mar 11, 2021)

Nice score


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Got it tinted today


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Still moving slowly but some slow progress is being made. I’ll be purchasing the rest of my SI speakers this weekend at the Sundown show. I’m not going but the prices are too good to pass up so Naiku will get them for me and I’ll pick them up at his meet in Sept. I already have a set of TM65MkIVs so this weekend I’ll get the mids, tweets & the SQL-12 (I don’t quite have the room, or amp power, for the 15).

The plan is to put the sub in the right rear corner of the trunk. I’ve estimated there’s about 1.3-1.4cf in that spot, so the 1cf sealed I’m aiming for shouldn’t be a problem. Does anyone have any tips/tricks on how to apply mat on this area without it falling off…








I’ve glassed stuff before but I’ve never had to apply it upside down. I want to do the first layer IN the car until it hardens to make sure it holds shape.

Other than that, my new remote starter showed up today. 








It’s a simple 30min plug & play install so that’ll get done this weekend. I might get frisky and start glassing this weekend, we’ll see.


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## Truthunter (Jun 15, 2015)

I've installed several of those 12V Solutions remote starters in Toyota/Lexus vehicles. They work flawlessly and are super quick to install.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

TheTodd said:


> Still moving slowly but some slow progress is being made. I’ll be purchasing the rest of my SI speakers this weekend at the Sundown show. I’m not going but the prices are too good to pass up so Naiku will get them for me and I’ll pick them up at his meet in Sept. I already have a set of TM65MkIVs so this weekend I’ll get the mids, tweets & the SQL-12 (I don’t quite have the room, or amp power, for the 15).
> 
> The plan is to put the sub in the right rear corner of the trunk. I’ve estimated there’s about 1.3-1.4cf in that spot, so the 1cf sealed I’m aiming for shouldn’t be a problem. Does anyone have any tips/tricks on how to apply mat on this area without it falling off…
> View attachment 344117
> ...


I've worked with fiberglass a bit and have found that the hotter you mix the resin, the quicker it gets sticky... just mix up enough to do a small patch, then wash, rinse, repeat.
Have you thought about a stack-fab enclosure? I kind of want to try one just for the experience but, admit it looks like a lot of work.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I did think about a stack-fab but to be honest my router skills are rudimentary at best and the fiberglass can be a lot thinner than the wood would have to be which gives me a little more wiggle room with airspace. I’m by no means a master at fiberglass work but I’d rather deal with the smell (call me weird but I like the smell) of that than the wasted wood plus sawdust mess. Not to mention the cost of wood these days…


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

Trust me, fiberglass supplies have gone through the roof as well, just spent $100 at AutoZone… hopefully you have some laying around!


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I do. I think I have at least a gallon of resin. I’m not positive on the amount of hardener but I’m confident I have enough. I would just need to get some cloth and/or mat and some brushes.


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

TheTodd said:


> Still moving slowly but some slow progress is being made. I’ll be purchasing the rest of my SI speakers this weekend at the Sundown show. I’m not going but the prices are too good to pass up so Naiku will get them for me and I’ll pick them up at his meet in Sept. I already have a set of TM65MkIVs so this weekend I’ll get the mids, tweets & the SQL-12 (I don’t quite have the room, or amp power, for the 15).
> 
> The plan is to put the sub in the right rear corner of the trunk. I’ve estimated there’s about 1.3-1.4cf in that spot, so the 1cf sealed I’m aiming for shouldn’t be a problem. Does anyone have any tips/tricks on how to apply mat on this area without it falling off…
> View attachment 344117
> ...


You will find answer here








BMW trunk side enclosure JL 10W3v3-4 by LBaudio


I started with fabrication of sealed SW enclosure for JL audio W3 v3 driver which will be mounted in the left side of the trunk of BMW F30. Enclosure will be built to JL audio specs for this driver which is 19-20 Litre sealed. Back side of the enclosure will be made out of fiber-glass, baffle...




www.diymobileaudio.com


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Nice work! I just hope mine looks 1/2 as good when I’m done.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Got a little bit more done this weekend. I had a bit of deadener left over from my last car so I thought I’d use that up to get _something_ done. I ran out part way through the floor but I’ll finish that up once I get more. 

Trunk lid before & after:

















Trunk floor before & after:

































I’ll get my new speakers at the VA meet & I get paid 3 times in September, plus I’ll be selling the Malibu so progress should start picking up this coming month.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Giorgio, the peanut butter box is here.










Obviously it’s not really the peanut butter box, but I couldn’t help myself, for some reason I _love_ that commercial. 

I’m still waiting on power wire & the USB adapter to show up and I also have to order a few more things yet but progress should start picking up in the next few weeks. 

For the next 7 out of 12 Saturdays I’ll be busy, so time will be limited (I have season tickets to PSU football), because of that I’m really contemplating taking maybe 3-4 days vacation over an away game weekend to knock this biotch out. I figure a good Th-Tu stretch at the end of the month should be enough to get the majority done. I guess we’ll see how frisky I feel until then. 

See y’all in a week or so in VA. Deuces!


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## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

Todd, I'm going to go ahead and throw this out before you start on a sub enclosure...

Two SQL-12 s on a trunk baffle.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

JI808 said:


> Todd, I'm going to go ahead and throw this out before you start on a sub enclosure...
> 
> Two SQL-12 s on a trunk baffle.


I would absolutely LOVE to do that but not sure how it would work being that the seats don’t fold and the only opening is either the very small 7x8” ski pass or the 6x9 rear speaker openings. I’m still entertaining the idea of the single 12 firing through the ski pass. We can discuss it further at Ian’s this weekend.


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## Jlugo360 (Mar 6, 2017)

I have a 2013 Touring (same color) yours definitely looks mint.
Congrats!


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

TheTodd said:


> I would absolutely LOVE to do that but not sure how it would work being that the seats don’t fold and the only opening is either the very small 7x8” ski pass or the 6x9 rear speaker openings. I’m still entertaining the idea of the single 12 firing through the ski pass. We can discuss it further at Ian’s this weekend.


My ski pass is roughly that size and it works just fine…


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Jlugo360 said:


> I have a 2013 Touring (same color) yours definitely looks mint.
> Congrats!


Thanks. I can’t wait to get the install started in about 3 weeks. I scheduled 4 days vacation over the Columbus Day weekend and a buddy of mine is going to help me knock this out.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

mumbles said:


> My ski pass is roughly that size and it works just fine…


For 2 or just 1? I’m still heavily contemplating using the 1 through the pass but I’m not sure I have enough power for two. 500w off the sub channel of my Alpine V9.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Some small progress has been made.

The idea was to put the control knob for the TWK in a blank switch plate on the dash. Only problem is there’s no empty spots.









So the plan is to remove the one for the Blind Spot Monitor as that’s the only one I see myself not needing to operate. It stays on all the time and I like it that way. I’ll double check the wiring but if it’s as easy as jumping some wires I’ll do that and remove the switch completely. If it’s not that simple, I’ll just tuck the switch up somewhere behind the dash. With that decided, I acquired a blank and proceeded to drill a hole dead center and mount the knob… only to notice AFTER the hole was drilled that the shaft is actually offset on the actual knob and it BARELY fit.








Who designed that thing? The next obstacle is finding a place to mount the obscenely bright LED so it’s not blinding at night.

I also started the sub grille this evening. Took one of my SI stickers and stuck it on the grille. The plan is to paint the grille gun-metal grey to blend into the grey trunk, then I’ll peel the sticker, leaving a black logo.








Everything was going according to plan until it started raining a few minutes ago so that will wait until tomorrow. I also ordered some brushed metal vinyl to wrap my dash kit to more closely match my dash so I’m going to try to get that done by this weekend as well.

A big decision with the sub has been made at least. I went back & forth & back & forth between sealed, IB, 4th order bandpass & ported. In the end I’ve decided to do ported behind the rear seat. Given I’m only running 500w or so I went with ported to gain a little efficiency over the sealed and ease of build over the 4th order. According to my modeling a 1.6cf tuned to 26Hz gives me the relatively flat response I’m looking for with really good low end extension.

I took the weekend of 10/6-10/11 off work and a friend of mine is going to help me knock this thing out so a lot of progress will be made in a few weeks.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Didn’t get any painting done today. No rain but steady 10-15mph winds would’ve made painting difficult. So I focused on the dash kit tonight. So the OEM dash has a brushed metal look to it and the dash kit is gloss black and I hear that it scratches VERY easily so that’s a big nope.

Here’s the OEM finish (ignore the greasy fingerprints) with that pesky aforementioned airbag light








And the dash kit finish








So I got myself some brushed metal vinyl and wrapped that sumbitch. It’s not an exact match but it’s close enough that it’ll work.








And I did get those small bubbles out.
So here’s the back of the donor, non-JBL radio I mentioned in the beginning of the thread. 








After disassembly this is what I’m after. In the top left corner is the circuit board for the pass airbag light. That’s what needs transferred over to the new dash kit. 








In the JBL radio these 2 pieces are 1 complete board which makes removing it extremely difficult. 








So I got the airbag light transferred over and got it all buttoned up for now. Maybe later this weekend I’ll mount up the new head unit and prep it for install.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Todd, Im enjoying your build. I was hoping you would have gone sealed sub box in right side of trunk. Then I could copy you. I almost had a poop when I opened up the si 12” sub. Didnt realize how deep and large the magnet is.


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

TheTodd said:


> For 2 or just 1? I’m still heavily contemplating using the 1 through the pass but I’m not sure I have enough power for two. 500w off the sub channel of my Alpine V9.


Missed this… I have two 15’s. Here’s the best shot I have;


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

dkc7 said:


> Todd, Im enjoying your build. I was hoping you would have gone sealed sub box in right side of trunk. Then I could copy you. I almost had a poop when I opened up the si 12” sub. Didnt realize how deep and large the magnet is.


Thanks. It really was a LOT of flip flopping between that corner sealed and the ported. The other reason I had for not doing the sealed in the corner was because my trunk floor is all one piece so if I ever needed to access the spare area I’d have to tuck that “wing” back under & I also wasn’t sure how easily would come out & go back in.

That sub? No kidding! I took it out of the box to line up the grille to make sure my logo would be straight and my wife goes “Holy S**T! What are you doing with THAT?” It’s easily twice as heavy as the 15 that came out of the Malibu.

















It really is a thing of beauty isn’t it?

Currently getting ready for a day of football in State College, then I’ll try to get some more tidbits done tomorrow.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

TheTodd said:


> That sub? No kidding! I took it out of the box to line up the grille to make sure my logo would be straight and my wife was goes “Holy S**T!


When I first opened mine up, those were my exact thoughts. Coming from the 10" that was in the suitcase, it's massive.

500W from the PDX will surprise you on that sub, never once left me wanting more bass.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Got home from the game, painted the grille, peeled the sticker, took a picture 









Then promptly hit a motivational wall. Sitting in the sun all day takes a lot out of you. I’m a tad burnt even with sunscreen. Hopefully will do more tomorrow.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Got a little bit more done today while dodging rain storms. Stupid Ian… at least all we got in PA was rain.

Pulled the panel just forward of the shifter & under the HVAC panel and removed the OEM “mood lighting” LED. 
















Made a small piece of ABS and hot glued it in place and installed the LED for the TWK
























It’ll have to wait until everything is in and operational before I’ll know if it’s too bright mounted there. If it is, I found a solution but we’ll see how it goes first. Sitting in the car you can’t even see the panel so you shouldn’t even know it’s there until it’s lit up. 









I also got the drivers side sail panel mocked up. 

























I managed to get it on-axis within a degree or 2 so we’ll call it on-axis. That’s where I left off before I got tired of being rained on from the trial fitting in & out. I’ll try to get the passenger one done in the next 2 evenings then Thursday begins the sub box & amp rack/wiring.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

So when u do the passenger tweeter do u do an angle symmetrical to the driver side or do u aim it at the driver (person).


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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

Yea, them SQLs are on a whole other level. They surprise me every time I put them back in. I have 2 sealed on 4k and they are monsters. This is today's texts from my coworkers when i pulled up to work just now. Mind you our control room is explosion proof and our plant is loud AF. 










Distance


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

dkc7 said:


> So when u do the passenger tweeter do u do an angle symmetrical to the driver side or do u aim it at the driver (person).


In the Malibu I did symmetrical. This one I’ll do on axis to the driver. Since I’m tuning it to the driver’s seat I may as well aim them at the driver’s seat. The tricky part with these is the fact that over 1/2 the sail panel (the part covered in blue tape) is covered by the a-pillar, and there’s no gap so I have to make sure my glassing doesn’t go too far AND worrying about the corner of the dash that covers part of them too.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

Making some pretty quick progress! Are you hoping to be all done before it starts getting too cold?



TheTodd said:


> Stupid Ian… at least all we got in PA was rain.


Did you get a lot of rain? It was miserable here from Friday morning until sometime last night, just non stop steady rain Friday, Saturday and Sunday.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I took off work from this Thursday to next Tuesday to work on it, so unless some major problems occur the physical build part should be done by then. After that it should be the usual tweaking, tuning & finishing bits.

As far as rain, I couldn’t tell you the amount but it started with off & on rain overnight Friday then turned to constant, steady rain from late Sat morning until this morning.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Passenger tweeter mocked up. 








That’s it. I might try to get some fabric stretched tomorrow evening.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Ok… whew… day 1 in the books. 
OEM door. I was surprised there were very little holes and it was mostly solid all around









Deadened about 75% of the outside skin and most of the inner skin. 








TM65 mounted








Driver’s side is identical (of course I forgot to take pics). I did manage to get a pic of the speaker wires through the door boot. I was VERY pleasantly surprised to find a boot and NOT a molex connector, especially for a ‘14. 








Power wire routed through the firewall and run down the driver’s side under the sill plate








While the door was apart I wrapped the seat memory button in tesa tape as I’ve heard these things rattle like a sumbitch and it did a little with just the OEM woofer. 








Next task was to figure out a way to remove the plastic door for the ski pass








I was hoping it wasn’t going to be a major surgery. Turns out it’s as simple as sliding this bar out








and it comes right out


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Also got the rear shelf removed to pull rear speakers and apply deadener 








I also finished applying the Killmat to the rest of the trunk but, yet again, forgot to take after pics. It’s really hard to remember to take pics while you’re movin along & making progress. I did manage, though, to take a picture of the OEM deadening on the driver’s rear 1/4 panel








It wasn’t even applied correctly and it was just hanging there. Passenger side was exactly the same.

A lot more work planned for tomorrow. We should be able to start building the sub box & amp rack and I’m hoping to also get the mids mounted and wires run. Until tomorrow…


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

TheTodd said:


> Ok… whew… day 1 in the books.
> OEM door. I was surprised there were very little holes and it was mostly solid all around
> 
> View attachment 349544
> ...


How did u get all that grass to grow in your trunk


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I also got the BSM switch zip tied up behind the dash








The Twk knob (previously mounted in the blank) in its place, which took a bit more modification than originally thought… just some minor trimming. 








And while it was apart I found this section on top of the cubby that looked perfect for the LED.









So I pulled it out of the location in front of the shifter and mounted it in that center square. It’s a little tough to see but it’s there. So now I don’t have to worry about it being too bright. I can just drop the door if I need to verify color/preset.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

dkc7 said:


> How did u get all that grass to grow in your trunk


Miracle Grow


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## Freakquency (8 mo ago)

Something about seeing well done deadening and clean runs of wire, etc. that is beyond satisfying.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Freakquency said:


> Something about seeing well done deadening and clean runs of wire, etc. that is beyond satisfying.


More wiring goodness for you. Power wire, 3 sets of speaker wires & the Twk cable all run down the left side









3 sets of speaker wires, 1 RCA cable & remote run down the right side









Mids are mounted & wired 








Because of the limited space in the dash the “fast ring” couldn’t be applied to the speaker or baffle. So we trimmed up the lip on the grille piece and applied the ring to the grille. Now the front wave is completely isolated from the rear









Also got the head unit installed today also. The vinyl doesn’t quite match the rest of the dash but it’s close enough. It looks _much_ worse in direct sunlight









It’s a lot closer in color to the “leather” covering on the rest of the dash so I’m ok with it plus the screen does block a lot of it so it’s not quite so noticeable. 

















This pic kind of shows why the airbag light from the JBL radio can’t be used. You can see through the “window” that the circuit board is all one piece









I also removed the center speaker in the dash and mounted the GPS antenna in its place









With all this done today I can absolutely confirm that you can use the airbag light from a non-JBL radio to replace your JBL radio.

Obviously the sub box didn’t get built today, nor did the amp rack. That will continue on Monday. This weekend I’ll be concentrating on mounting the fuse holder to the battery and finishing up the tweeters in the sails.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Nice work, vvivid makes a black leather look vinyl that looks great. If u decide to change from brushed steal


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

dkc7 said:


> Nice work, vvivid makes a black leather look vinyl that looks great. If u decide to change from brushed steal


I might try a few different shades/finishes. As you can see in the pics the shade mismatch changes depending on the light and/or angle. In the one picture it looks darker than the HVAC panel and in others it looks lighter. The camera seems to exaggerate the difference, it really doesn’t look bad in person.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

I can send u a piece of the black leather grain. Pm me your address


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Fuse holder mounted and the OEM battery post cover modified & awaiting final connection. It should be a short 4-5” from battery to fuse holder. 









I also got the sails nearly finished. After the first layer of fiberglass








Forgot (and saw no need) to take pics of additional layers but the filler is currently drying









DISCLAIMER: I am fully aware that I’ll NEVER win, or be nominated for, Installer of the Year.

However, I’m quite pleased how they turned out. So much so that I didn’t take any pics of the test fitment because of how happy I was with how they look. I could’ve easily paid someone to do it, and that came close to happening, but it’s even more fulfilling to know that I did it myself.

The build continues tomorrow…


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Well no one post shots of their screwups. Those sails look great. If that vinyl im sending matches your dash you could wrap the sales in that.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

dkc7 said:


> Well no one post shots of their screwups. Those sails look great. If that vinyl im sending matches your dash you could wrap the sales in that.


Oooo, I like the sound of that! I was literally just sitting here thinking how I’m going to cover them. All the fabrics I have are either too thick or not stretchy enough, and I’m still not sure about the time (and sanding) commitment to paint them. Although I thought about some kind of texture coating before paint.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I didn’t post an update yesterday due to tweaking my back while working on the car & I just crashed after I got home. Most of yesterday was box building and working out minor details for today’s activities anyway. So today’s update will be 2 days in one.

In the end I ended up doing a sealed enclosure anyway. We built it to the larger, ported airspace just in case I want to add ports later but I have a feeling (after hearing it today) I’ll more than likely stick with sealed. It’s still slightly larger than recommended at 1.5cf but since I’m only running 500w (half RMS) it’ll give me a little more efficiency and bottom end (although I realize the low end difference will be minor). We covered the face in the same brushed metal looking vinyl that was used on the dash kit.

























Remember that ski pass I was gonna leave open to get more bass into the cabin? Decided on something else for that space.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

The easiest way to get the amps to fit without stressing the wires in the plugs was on top of the box. I also wanted to make sure gains & other controls were accessible. Grille is also mounted. For some reason (to me anyway) the pics of the grille look like the logo is off center. It definitely isn’t. 










Test fit in the car









I also got the power wire connected to the battery. A nice short 3” run from the battery to the fuse. 

















So everything is in and playing. I only have crossovers and initial, basic time delay set but it sounds WONDERFUL!!! The level of details in these SI drivers vs. the PPI drivers in my Malibu is LEVELS better. I think it could use more midbass & sub but that’ll come with level matching. I also wanted to make sure I break in the drivers a bit before I start testing suspensions too so level matching & more low end “oomph” will come later.

Sunday we will make the trim cover for the trunk & possibly add a few accents. The sails need a LOT more work until they’re in finished appearance but the goal for this week was functional. Appearance can come later over the winter.

One last update to come with the finished trunk. Then it’s tuning time.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Todd that box has to be over 3 cuft


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

It was 1.9 but with braces, sub displacement and a few pieces of wood strategically placed inside we came to just a smidge over 1.5. I forget the width but it’s only 12”h and 10”d externally. It’s smaller than it looks.


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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

I thought I was running mine in a big box. I got 1.1 each after displacement. I like it there. I've been meaning to drop them off and get my box built but when ever they go in to my car I refuse to take them out. They are in a prefab box but it's not leaking or giving me issues I just don't like the shape of it, takes up too much space.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I know 1.1 is about that sweet spot but I kind of wanted the ability to go ported without building a whole new box if that was something I wanted to try. Back in the early 90s I ran a JL 12w4 in a 2cf sealed box (2x recommended size) and LOVED the way it sounded. The key with a bigger sealed box is to know the benefits & drawbacks. Power handling will decrease but you gain efficiency & low end extension (much like IB which is essentially a large sealed box, right?). This sub is also recommended for IB so there should be no reason a 1.5 or even 2-3cf should be detrimental. You just have to know the limitations. I know I’ll never be putting more than 500-550 (I think my PDX birth sheet says 540-something) so it should be just fine.

I’m not saying you’re implying it won’t be, I’m just explaining my thought process.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Good to know


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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

TheTodd said:


> I know 1.1 is about that sweet spot but I kind of wanted the ability to go ported without building a whole new box if that was something I wanted to try. Back in the early 90s I ran a JL 12w4 in a 2cf sealed box (2x recommended size) and LOVED the way it sounded. The key with a bigger sealed box is to know the benefits & drawbacks. Power handling will decrease but you gain efficiency & low end extension (much like IB which is essentially a large sealed box, right?). This sub is also recommended for IB so there should be no reason a 1.5 or even 2-3cf should be detrimental. You just have to know the limitations. I know I’ll never be putting more than 500-550 (I think my PDX birth sheet says 540-something) so it should be just fine.
> 
> I’m not saying you’re implying it won’t be, I’m just explaining my thought process.


I went with 1.1 to play as low as possible too. I completely get trying to get low. Mine are crossed @60hz cuz in my car I get nothing above that from my trunk. Then the front sub takes over from 65hz. Kinda like an infinite baffle set up too.


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## Freakquency (8 mo ago)

I need to hear this new set up


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## mumbles (Jul 26, 2010)

Freakquency said:


> I need to hear this new set up


Agreed, it sounds like a great combo!


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## Stycker (Jan 31, 2018)

Nice wok Todd. Can't wait to hear it.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

TheTodd said:


> I think my PDX birth sheet says 540-something


579 

Really great work, pretty cool that you were able to get the whole thing knocked out as quickly as you did. Seems like everything just went to plan. Looking forward to checking it out at some point in future.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I did manage to cover the sails this evening.

























They’re far from perfect but they’re perfect from far. I’m happy with them and I guess that’s all that matters. 😎

We’re still on track to trim out the trunk this weekend.

Tonally I’m BLOWN AWAY with these SI drivers. Listening to Pneuma from Tool yesterday I could actually hear the sound of the drum stick hitting the rubber pad on the drum machine… and this SQL 12 just beats up my PPI 15 that was in the Malibu & takes its lunch money. It’s so subtle & smooth and then I twist the knob and the rear shelf just erupts violently. I also now have to figure out how to stop the fuel filler door from rattling.

I tried to get some tuning done tonight as well but I’m getting a tad frustrated with that so I think I just may leave that to someone more capable. I just can’t seem to get my image centered (I played with all different phase settings), and getting the bass up front is eluding me as well. If I mute the tweets I seem to get a very solid center stage (a tad left of center but better than with the tweets) but as soon as I turn the tweeters back on everything shifts again. I’m just not in familiar territory and I know it… I also don’t own a mic, nor do I really want to. I’d rather just have someone with more knowledge do it & then just set it & forget it. I’m not one to fiddle and try to get it minutely better every chance I get. Just get it hopefully where my Malibu was (or better) and I’m done.

Until the next update…


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Fuel door! Put on a nascar fuel filler. Now that I see our door panel I think the vinyl i sent will be a good match.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

TheTodd said:


> I also don’t own a mic


If you want to borrow my microphone, let me know and I'll send it up the road to you.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

naiku said:


> If you want to borrow my microphone, let me know and I'll send it up the road to you.


I appreciate the offer but no thanks.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Ok… the ol Good News, Bad News situation is in effect and since nobody eats their ice cream before their Brussels sprouts…

Bad News:
While it’s somewhat good that the trim panel is done, it is NOT to my satisfaction and it will get redone. Somehow even after measuring twice (more than twice actually) and cutting once, the opening around the sub is not symmetrical. Somehow it’s 1/2” closer on the right vs the left. There’s also a gap on the right side of the amps. The opening around the sub was taken from the shape of the license plate recess on the trunk lid. 

















Now for the Good News:
While the trim panel was being F’ed up I was busy getting some seat time with the laptop/DSP. I remeasured my speaker distances as well as experimented with a few different crossover settings. After A/Bing with my original baseline tune & constantly noting improvements, I think I have a new baseline I’m proud of. I think I was running into some weird phase issues at the previous mid/tweeter crossover points. Knowing the SI 3s are good full-rangers I upped the crossovers to 7k & that seems to be the sweet spot. I have a good center image, fairly wide stage, good tonality & the bass is _almost_ up front. I still think I can get that better so I’ll keep working at it when I get time. Also in other good news, I figured out how to get the fuel filler door off so that will be taken care of this week.


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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

TheTodd said:


> Ok… the ol Good News, Bad News situation is in effect and since nobody eats their ice cream before their Brussels sprouts…
> 
> Bad News:
> While it’s somewhat good that the trim panel is done, it is NOT to my satisfaction and it will get redone. Somehow even after measuring twice (more than twice actually) and cutting once, the opening around the sub is not symmetrical. Somehow it’s 1/2” closer on the right vs the left. There’s also a gap on the right side of the amps. The opening around the sub was taken from the shape of the license plate recess on the trunk lid.
> ...


That's a nice looking trunk. 👌 good job.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

We have a saying here in Ottawa (capital of canada) “Close enough for government work”. I know as a professional detailer you have a different standard as do I. It does look good though, most of us would not have noticed if you didnt point it out. Glad your making headway with tuning.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

dkc7 said:


> We have a saying here in Ottawa (capital of canada) “Close enough for government work”. I know as a professional detailer you have a deferent standard as do I. It does look good though, most of us would not have noticed if you didnt point it out. Glad your making headway with tuning.


Oh, we say that here too. I think that’s part of my problem… I’m a little too OCD when it comes to these things. At first I thought I could live with it but, nope, I see it every time I open the trunk. I know it won’t be anywhere near what some people here do but if I know I’m not happy & have the chance to do it right I might as well do it right.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

If it was a tesla 3 they would have sent it out for delivery


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I got the trim panel redone today. I’ll try to get some better pics tomorrow with better light. I tightened up the openings around the amps and decided to change up the opening around the sub & I'm much happier with the result. 









For whatever reason the guy that helped me build this decided to air-nail the trim panel on so in order to make everything more accessible if needed I used threaded inserts but in yet another bone-headed move I forgot to figure in the thickness of the carpet and my black screws were too short. So, for now, I had to use silver ones & you can see the screws on either side of the sub that hold the panel on. I’ll grab longer black ones this week & they should disappear & not be seen.


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## saltyone (Feb 2, 2019)

Very nice! Y’all are going to convince me to get one of those SQL subs. I’ve never heard anyone say something negative about them, except for maybe how power hungry they are. Great job!


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Here’s a few more gooder pics



















saltyone said:


> Very nice! Y’all are going to convince me to get one of those SQL subs. I’ve never heard anyone say something negative about them, except for maybe how power hungry they are. Great job!


I will HIGHLY recommend them. Mine has absolutely lived up to the hype. I wouldn’t necessarily call them power hungry, though, as mine is borderline obnoxious on about 580w. I’d call them more tanks in that if you feed them power they’ll just destroy sh!t.


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## Freakquency (8 mo ago)

Sh!t looks good Todd. Well done.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Somehow last week the wife, son & I managed to come down with Covid. Worst of it all was flu-like symptoms so we consider ourselves lucky. Today I’ve actually felt good enough to get a few more little tidbits done.

Using a sine wave at my sub/midbass crossover frequency I reversed the phase on the sub and adjusted my front delay until my SPL meter read the lowest, inverted the sub phase again and BAM… bass up front. Happy camper.

I wrapped the door switches in tesa tape to try to alleviate some buzzes but the door lock switch is proving to be defiant. It’s the actual rocker portion that’s rattling & I’m not sure how to solve it. 


















I also addressed the fuel door rattle as well. It was way easier than I originally thought. For anyone with the same car…

Lift up the 2 tabs & slide the door away from the car









Put a piece of deadener on the door









And reinstall. The part of the hinge actually fits into the recess with the deadener so it also helps wedge it on and further help it from vibrating.

If anyone is still reading I have a situation hopefully someone can help me with. I figured out why I was getting some weird phase issues with my tweeters before raising the crossover from 5k to 7k. So when I ordered the protection caps for the tweeters I accidentally ordered (and installed) 6uF caps instead of 16uF caps. So my 6dB crossover is about 6k instead of the 2-2.5ish I originally intended. Knowing this, and also knowing that I’m currently tickled with how it sounds, would any of you change the caps out for the higher value? I’m just worried that when I go to get an actual tune on this beast it may be holding the final result back. While it’s only about $12-15 for new ones, it’ll be a bit inconvenient to actually pull stuff apart & replace them. Opinions?


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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

I would suggest raising it to lower the usable frequency of your tweeter. Your midrange starts to beam at 4500hz and will defeat the purpose of going 3way if your going to run your drivers into beaming to meet up with your tweeter. I used a 33uf wich I believe it's starts to roll off at 1.2khz (I think if I remember correctly). I use the cap to protect the tweeter from an oopsie. Mine is a GB10 and I think the SI tweeter can play lower than the GB10. I'd suggest using one that won't affect the SI tweeters lowest crossover, just in case you ever have an issue with your midrange you can go 2 way in the mean time. Just my thoughts.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice install!


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

TheTodd said:


> It’s the actual rocker portion that’s rattling & I’m not sure how to solve it.


I'd try to get something up behind the pin piece that the rocker switch snaps onto, basically wedged in behind the rocker and the actual switch. Might be also worth popping the rocker off those pins, putting something on the back of the rocker then snapping it back on again. Maybe just a tiny piece of foam behind there so it does not rattle around, but is still functional.

The install looks great.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

naiku said:


> I'd try to get something up behind the pin piece that the rocker switch snaps onto, basically wedged in behind the rocker and the actual switch. Might be also worth popping the rocker off those pins, putting something on the back of the rocker then snapping it back on again. Maybe just a tiny piece of foam behind there so it does not rattle around, but is still functional.
> 
> The install looks great.


Thanks! That’s actually not a bad idea. As I was reading your reply I had a facepalm moment like, duh, way to not think of an obvious solution. When driving you don’t hear it at all but sitting still giving a demo it’s REALLY noticeable and distracting.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Well BOO… it looks like my V9 is taking a 💩. This morning, also the 2nd time it’s happened, when I left for work the passenger side woofer did nothing but crackle until the amp warmed up. As the amp warmed up the crackling gradually went away. It has only done this on mornings that the temp was below 30*F. The first time I left the system off until the interior of my car was warm and even then it still crackled until the system was run for about 10-15mins… same duration as this morning, playing from the start. It could be something as easy as a cold solder joint but I’m not even sure I’d be able to find it with as much crap as they stuff into these small amps. I see my options as these:

1) Buy a “new” V9, there’s a nice one in the classifieds here for $525. Financially & install-wise it’s my best bet.
2) I’ve always loved the JL XD amps and right now the 800/8 & 600/1 are on sale at Crutchfield for $1170. A little less power for mids & tweets (75w vs 100) but slightly more power for sub (600 vs 500). Same 200w power for midbass. 
3) Keeping with the Alpine amps (always been a favorite of mine), the R-A90s and R-A75M will run me about $1100. Again, less power to fronts (75 + 150 vs 100 + 200) and more power yet to sub (750 vs 500).
And 4) While not ideal, I’d love to do it… buy 2 old school Orion 225HCCAs (to match the one I currently own) to run my fronts and find a 250HCCA to run the sub. Considerably less power all around but… ya can’t beat that old school beauty.










Any ideas or opinions? Other amps that can run 3- way active + sub around the $1000-1500 range I’m not thinking of? While I’d love to do SI amps, I really don’t want to have to beef up my electrical from where it’s at now and with the 3 SI amps I’d want, it would be inevitable. At the very least I’d have to run new, bigger power wire and I don’t really want to do that in the cold. $1500 is the tops of what I want to spend but for the right gear I _might_ convince myself to spend more.


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## Freakquency (8 mo ago)

Maybe try to find an Audison AV 5.1K on eBay? I know about 4 years ago I ran one in my Sonata and found it for around 900 dollars pretty much unused. It was a display model. I forgot the specs but I believe it ran a staggered impedance setup with a potential 1k on channel 5 at 2 ohm


AV 5.1K - Audison 5-Channel 1650W RMS VOCE Series Power Amplifier (woofersetc.com) 

just attaching it to show the specs.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Just go for the SI amps then you have a matching set. Im lovin my 1500.1. In the mean time put in a remote start and warm your amps up before you get in the car😏


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I have a remote start, which I’ve been using, it just doesn’t seem to matter when it comes to the amp warming up.

I managed to stumble upon the E-series from D’Amore Engineering. Are they any good? I can do a pair of 400.4 (60x4, 200x2 bridged) and a 1000.1 for $1000. They look nice & the small package is a plus I just don’t know anything about them.


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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

The jp 7 ch amp.... lol 😆 I'm just kidding


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

ItsonlyaHONDA said:


> The jp 7 ch amp.... lol 😆 I'm just kidding


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## Freakquency (8 mo ago)

TheTodd said:


> View attachment 356463


No love for the Audison either?


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Freakquency said:


> No love for the Audison either?


I’ll have to research it. I know nothing about them


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I think I’m gonna get the used V9 in the classifieds. It makes the most financial sense right now and it’ll just be a matter of matching gains and it’ll be plug & play.


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## Freakquency (8 mo ago)

TheTodd said:


> I think I’m gonna get the used V9 in the classifieds. It makes the most financial sense right now and it’ll just be a matter of matching gains and it’ll be plug & play.


Makes sense


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

It does. I’ll be honest, I REALLY wanted to get new amps. Who doesn’t like getting shiny new toys? But the more I thought about it I would have to redo the install plus (more than likely) a re-tune. It just seemed like a lot of hassle. I’m absolutely in love with how the car sounds with even my basic tune so after a LOT of mental anguish today I figured why mess with it.

I already messaged the guy about the amp and after the swap I’ll open the current one up and see what I find. If it’s fixable I’ll take care of that and maybe keep it in the possibility I get a 2nd SQL & it’ll replace the F4.


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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

TheTodd said:


> It does. I’ll be honest, I REALLY wanted to get new amps. Who doesn’t like getting shiny new toys? But the more I thought about it I would have to redo the install plus (more than likely) a re-tune. It just seemed like a lot of hassle. I’m absolutely in love with how the car sounds with even my basic tune so after a LOT of mental anguish today I figured why mess with it.
> 
> I already messaged the guy about the amp and after the swap I’ll open the current one up and see what I find. If it’s fixable I’ll take care of that and maybe keep it in the possibility I get a 2nd SQL & it’ll replace the F4.


If you didn't already know. 2 SQLs are my favorite 😍. Just give them enough juice.


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## Freakquency (8 mo ago)

TheTodd said:


> It does. I’ll be honest, I REALLY wanted to get new amps. Who doesn’t like getting shiny new toys? But the more I thought about it I would have to redo the install plus (more than likely) a re-tune. It just seemed like a lot of hassle. I’m absolutely in love with how the car sounds with even my basic tune so after a LOT of mental anguish today I figured why mess with it.
> 
> I already messaged the guy about the amp and after the swap I’ll open the current one up and see what I find. If it’s fixable I’ll take care of that and maybe keep it in the possibility I get a 2nd SQL & it’ll replace the F4.


Looking forward to hearing it in this new iteration in the future. I enjoyed the Malibu a lot and this looks even better


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

It’s definitely better than the Malibu. As long as it stays above 30 degrees anyway. 😎


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

I vote Orion HCCA's!


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

The “new” V9 has been swapped in. This morning was 23 degrees and the R midbass crackled about 2/3 of my 30min drive to work. Even though it was nice & toasty inside the car there was still frost on the trunk lid when I got to work so I’m 90% sure it’s related to amp temp. It’s supposed to get down in the low 20s again tonight so now I just have to wait. If the noise continues I guess I’ll have to look at the RCAs and then speaker. While things were apart I tried jiggling the RCAs just to see if it would do anything. It was near 40 so there was no noise but figured I’d try just in case… nothing.

_Crossing fingers_ that this solved it.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Well, that was a bust. I think I may have a bad midbass. It crackled all the way to work this morning. It’s still somewhat playing music but it definitely doesn’t sound good. I’m going to try to swap in a known good speaker in the next few days to make sure. There’s still a possibility it could be a bad RCA but, believe it or not, that may not be the easiest to diagnose & swapping speakers is easier at this point. I could easily swap a temp cable but it’s also using a Y-connector (which could ALSO be bad) so even swapping cables L to R is gonna be a challenge with the current wiring layout. Especially since bending over in my trunk is really not good for my back.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I tore it apart again and swapped RCAs. It’s gonna get down in the 20s again tonight so we’ll see what happens.

My logic says a speaker shouldn’t be intermittently good/bad depending on temperature so I’m kind of banking on RCAs… I guess hoping or begging is the words I’m looking for.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

TheTodd said:


> Well BOO… it looks like my V9 is taking a 💩.


Read that and thought much the same as the emoji, never had any issues with it crackling here, then read a few more posts and it sounds like it's the midbass itself is the problem.

Sucks you bought a new amp if it's not that, hopefully you can get it all resolved and don't have to spend too much time in 20F messing about in the car.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

At first I was upset with myself for buying an amp before doing proper troubleshooting but I’ll be honest… I’ve been really contemplating getting a second SQL and if I decide to do that I’ll swap out the F4 with the 2nd V9 so… no big deal. It was a nice amp for a good price.

The toughest part of troubleshooting this is it’s not a quick process. Since it’s still getting _relatively_ warmer during the day it’s a swap this, wait until morning… nope… swap this, wait until morning. But on the positive side it’s a little nicer to be working on it in 40 degrees vs 20. It’s not even just an air-temp problem. Whatever is causing this has to be cold saturated for a while like overnight. I’m really really hoping on RCAs. It’ll be easier and cheaper to replace one or more of those than replacing TM65s either under warranty or not.


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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

Get an other SQL 😃


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Can u attach a wire and driver righto the amp when it buzzes to check if its the tm65


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## Stycker (Jan 31, 2018)

Check grounds first. Then swap midbass. Physically move the left to the right and the right to the left.


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

TheTodd said:


> I’ve been really contemplating getting a second SQL and if I decide to do that I’ll swap out the F4 with the 2nd V9 so… no big deal.


It's funny, I was thinking of suggesting doing exactly that since you now have the 2 x V9's. Might be worth reaching out to Logan @squiers007 if you decide to sell the F4 as he was potentially looking for a PDX amp.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Stycker said:


> Check grounds first. Then swap midbass. Physically move the left to the right and the right to the left.


Grounds are good. I’m doubtful that would be the issue since the noise is only in the one woofer. I would think if it’s a ground issue it would present itself in all the speakers on that side (one amp runs L, the other runs the R).

It was a little easier to swap the RCAs than speakers at this point so I went there first. It never got below 32 last night so there were no noises this morning. And it looks like it’s supposed to hover around there until tomorrow night then it dips into the 20s so I doubt I’ll get noise until Saturday morning.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Temps finally dropped low enough that I got noise. It’s still the pass side woofer even with RCAs swapped. I might still try to find time to swap with a known-good speaker to be sure but I’m more confident now that it’s the speaker. I’m still confused, though, as to why it’s only when cold.


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## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

TheTodd said:


> Temps finally dropped low enough that I got noise. It’s still the pass side woofer even with RCAs swapped. I might still try to find time to swap with a known-good speaker to be sure but I’m more confident now that it’s the speaker. I’m still confused, though, as to why it’s only when cold.


Swapping drivers left to right will help nail down the issue. If the symptom moves with the driver swap, it's a driver. If it doesn't, it's something in the signal path.

I'm guessing it's not the driver, but a component in the signal path. Swapping RCAs doesn't swap every component in the signal chain. You're just hearing the issue at the driver.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I’ll try to do that in the next day or 2. Thanks


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I took my lunch break today to swap drivers so we’ll see what happens tomorrow morning as current temps are above 34. While I had the door panels off I checked all wires, connections, possible pinch points, etc.. All seemed fine with no stray strands that could short out, no coil rub, wires were good, no corrosion, etc. either. I also left the door panels off so I could possibly diagnose further when it happens.


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## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

If it moves, it's a driver. If it doesn't, it's a component in the system.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Why dont u take the passenger driver out put it in your freezer then test on your home system. Then u know if its the driver.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

dkc7 said:


> Why dont u take the passenger driver out put it in your freezer then test on your home system. Then u know if its the driver.


A) I actually thought about doing that but I’m not sure how my Sony receiver would handle 4ohms instead of the the 8 it usually runs and…
2) It sounded crazy even in my head so I didn’t. Then I just kept waiting for <30 degrees for the last 2 days. 

It should be cold enough within the next hour or so to give er a test listen. Alexa says the current temp is 29 but I got home from work 2hrs ago so the ambient temp in the car probably isn’t quite there yet. I’m just worried about what it could be if it’s NOT the speaker. I’ve eliminated the amp & RCAs already so I’m not sure how to check if it’s the DSP and I really don’t want to disassemble the interior in the cold to see if it’s a speaker wire somewhere.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Im not an electronics expert, but I always test speakers using a home amp. It only takes a few seconds to see if a speaker works. havent blown an amp yet🤞Perhaps someone in the know can comment.
sometimes crazy is what it takes.
hope you get it sorted before winter kicks in full time.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

dkc7 said:


> hope you get it sorted before winter kicks in full time.


Me too!
Well, last night didn’t get cold enough so we wait some more. Some nasty arctic blast is supposed to be coming for the weekend so I should have plenty of time to figure this out. Saturday’s high is supposed to be 19 so if all else fails I’ll do it all Saturday.

I think I may have had an Ah-Ha moment though. When I swapped out the amp I kept the plugs attached to the wires… swapped JUST the amp. I think it’s possible that something may be amiss with one of the plugs/wires. I’m going to wait, though, as I only want to change one thing at a time.

I think I can now safely say the DSP is fine also because when I switched RCAs I swapped them at the amps only so if I’m thinking correctly, if it was an issue with the R MB output channel it would’ve switched to the L when I swapped cables. So at this point I’m thinking it’s either the driver, the speaker wire from the amp to the driver or the previously mentioned plug/connection. I’m starting to REALLY lean towards that speaker plug at the amp now but I’ll wait to see what happens with the drivers until I mess with that.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Ok. I think I’m getting somewhere. It got down to 18 last night so we’re in business. Came out this morning, fired the ol girl up and… NO midbass… None… Neither side. I very gently touched the drivers side (formerly pass side) and it came to life, then cut back out. Touched it again, back to life, then cut out again. I then tried the pass side… nothing. About 10 mins into my drive the crackles started from the drivers side. About 5 mins later I hit a decent bump and the pass side came to life. I greatly suspect a loose connection at the amp for the pass side. After about 25mins or so both sides were working fine.

After getting to work I pulled the drivers side speaker and did some deeper investigating. I happened to notice a wee bit of rust on one of the vent holes on the magnet. So I took my air gun out and very gently blew some air in the vents. That’s when I noticed some moisture laying on the dust cap.


















So I dried it out and repeated until I was confident there was no more moisture in there. So now I’ll wait to see if that makes a difference. My rationale is that the little moisture that was in there was freezing and preventing the coil from moving until it heated up enough that it melted and then freed itself. So now we’ll wait some more and see if that fixed it.

And before anyone asks… yes, I mounted the speaker with the rain guard on top.


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## Freakquency (8 mo ago)

TheTodd said:


> Ok. I think I’m getting somewhere. It got down to 18 last night so we’re in business. Came out this morning, fired the ol girl up and… NO midbass… None… Neither side. I very gently touched the drivers side (formerly pass side) and it came to life, then cut back out. Touched it again, back to life, then cut out again. I then tried the pass side… nothing. About 10 mins into my drive the crackles started from the drivers side. About 5 mins later I hit a decent bump and the pass side came to life. I greatly suspect a loose connection at the amp for the pass side. After about 25mins or so both sides were working fine.
> 
> After getting to work I pulled the drivers side speaker and did some deeper investigating. I happened to notice a wee bit of rust on one of the vent holes on the magnet. So I took my air gun out and very gently blew some air in the vents. That’s when I noticed some moisture laying on the dust cap.
> View attachment 358790
> ...


Be prepared for this to turn into an SI slander thread for no reason.

Glad you made some strides in figuring out what's up


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Freakquency said:


> Be prepared for this to turn into an SI slander thread for no reason.
> 
> Glad you made some strides in figuring out what's up


Don’t worry I won’t let it happen. I want to make it clear that I don’t believe this is an SI product fault. I know YOU know that but I will put that out there. If it starts I’ll shut that sh!t down.

If this doesn’t fix it I will happily get a new one, whether by warranty replacement or if not I’ll buy a new one. 🤔 Maybe I’ll pick up some TM8s. Either way I’ll stand behind the quality & performance of these products.


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## Freakquency (8 mo ago)

TheTodd said:


> Don’t worry I won’t let it happen. I want to make it clear that I don’t believe this is an SI product fault. I know YOU know that but I will put that out there. If it starts I’ll shut that sh!t down.
> 
> If this doesn’t fix it I will happily get a new one, whether by warranty replacement or if not I’ll buy a new one. 🤔 Maybe I’ll pick up some TM8s. Either way I’ll stand behind the quality & performance of these products.


Agreed.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Funny, the other day I was thinking condensation. interesting that nicks 24” sub can go through a car wash but your tm65 is collecting water somehow. i have been using those foam baffles on my old cars with leaky windows. Even had them on the a6 when i had the 6.5 seas. 
glad you are making progress.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

dkc7 said:


> Funny, the other day I was thinking condensation. interesting that nicks 24” sub can go through a car wash but your tm65 is collecting water somehow. i have been using those foam baffles on my old cars with leaky windows. Even had them on the a6 when i had the 6.5 seas.
> glad you are making progress.


I find it interesting as well. The small vent hole showing rust is on the bottom too so maybe there was a small amount that held there due to tension and then got sucked into the coil gap…?

My next purchase is going to be a pair of those foam 6x9 baffles for some extra protection/peace of mind. I’ll cut the back out as well as a small piece at the bottom but those things are MUCH deeper than the speakers so there should be very little chance of it happening again.

I reinstalled the speaker at 7:30 this morning and temps are only just now getting to 30 so gave a quick test about 1/2hr ago and everything played fine. The true test will be overnight though. 🤞🏻


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Why 6x9
i would not cut any holes that way moist air in your door wont collect on cold metal speakers. Im still thinking condensation vs. Water


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## Stycker (Jan 31, 2018)

I was not expecting that. Good catch. Maybe those drain holes on the door bottom need cleaned out so they can drain better. I feel for you having to work in the cold.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

dkc7 said:


> Why 6x9
> i would not cut any holes that way moist air in your door wont collect on cold metal speakers. Im still thinking condensation vs. Water


Factory size was a 6x9. Without holes will severely limit output. It was meant to be an an IB situation not a super small enclosure. The fitment of the TM in the speaker adapter is already tight, I think that adding the foam baffle will make it tough to get the speaker back in. 




Stycker said:


> I was not expecting that. Good catch. Maybe those drain holes on the door bottom need cleaned out so they can drain better. I feel for you having to work in the cold.


Already checked the drain holes in the door. They are clear and there doesn’t seem to be any evidence that water backed up in the door. 🤷🏻‍♂️ As far as the cold… so far I’ve been doing most of the work inside at work. It helps to work at an auto dealership. However, I’m off until Dec 27th so from here out I’ll be outside. NOT looking forward to that.


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## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

I still say it’s a component in the system chain.

In my years in the military I NEVER saw a speaker not work due to heat/cold. Desert, mountains, didn’t matter. It was always a an electrical component - either a semiconductor device or capacitor.

Speakers are nothing more than an inductor in a magnetic field. As long as there’s current flowing to the inductor, the speaker is going to work.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I get what you’re saying and I’m not doubting you one bit. However, if my theory/assumption of water sitting on the coil then freezing (enough to hinder movement) is correct wouldn’t it be possible? Or would the potential force of the coil movement break it free? For the record the noise DID switch sides with the speaker. I’m going to keep at it until I find the real problem.


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## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

TheTodd said:


> I get what you’re saying and I’m not doubting you one bit. However, if my theory/assumption of water sitting on the coil then freezing (enough to hinder movement) is correct wouldn’t it be possible? Or would the potential force of the coil movement break it free? For the record the noise DID switch sides with the speaker. I’m going to keep at it until I find the real problem.


I thought you said neither one of them played.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Neither did. I’m hedging my bets on a loose connection for the passenger side and I tightened those just a few minutes ago. While the wires didn’t pull out, the set screws did tighten what I’d call considerably. Plus it came to life once I hit that bump. No crackles. It was off then, bump, on. 

Also, because the crackling followed to the driver’s side I figure that was isolated to the speaker itself. So with that I’m just theorizing on whether the small amount of water I found in the speaker could’ve been the root of the speaker working fine when above freezing but crackling below.

It’s an odd symptom and I’m determined to figure it out, and I will, but I’m wondering if my theory holds water… pun intended.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

At least you can get into your car. I've had to basically look like I'm breaking into my car the past 2 mornings. The doors were frozen shut. This morning, the driver side door lock would not unlock. I had to open that door from the passenger side. When I get home from work, I'm going to WD40 the door locks and grease up the weather stripping.


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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

And here I am complaining about having to wear pants cuz its too cold to wear basketball shorts.... geeez....


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

rule out the speakers vs signal chain: pull the speakers, power them by a different amplifier on bench when it's cold again.


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Non of u guys have anything to complain about. A silly b!!ch decided she didnt need to yield at a traffic circle yesterday.









because of acc probably a write off. Still sounds good though!
Merry Christmas


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Sorry Todd, I shouldnt have highjacked your thread. Hope u figure out your issue. If you have any spare hoods or headlights kicking around let me know


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

dkc7 said:


> Sorry Todd, I shouldnt have highjacked your thread. Hope u figure out your issue. If you have any spare hoods or headlights kicking around let me know


No worries. I can actually check on parts when I get back to work on the 27th. The important thing is everyone is ok (I’m assuming since it looks minor), stuff can always be replaced/fixed.

I can’t recall what the overnight low was last night but it was right about 30 when I got the chance to check it at 8am this morning. No noises at all. According to the weather channel app after a high of 50 at 2am tomorrow, temps will steadily drop to about 6*F overnight Friday and stay there until Christmas afternoon. So over the next 36-48hrs there should be plenty of opportunity to get it sorted out.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Current temp situation:









And it’s been below 25 since about 11am or so. I just went out and gave it a quick test run… completely noise free. Here’s hoping it stays that way.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)




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## ItsonlyaHONDA (Sep 9, 2021)

Perfect weather for work tonigh.😃


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## saltyone (Feb 2, 2019)

21 degrees here in north Louisiana. Feels like freaking 9 degrees. This is some f*c*ed up s**t 😂


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## JI808 (Nov 20, 2013)

TheTodd said:


> Current temp situation:
> View attachment 359052
> 
> 
> And it’s been below 25 since about 11am or so. I just went out and gave it a quick test run… completely noise free. Here’s hoping it stays that way.


So after all of this...could've been anything.  

Hitting a bump and it coming back in and playing leads to loose connection. Seeing the setscrews weren't tight adds to that being the culprit.


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

I had an issue with an amp that has a bad solder joint. Took awhile to diagnose.
Everything would play normally . Then hit a bump and left midbass would cut out.
Go back check all connections everything tight and secure. Everything playing again.
Same thing would happen.
Finally I figured out that the left RCA for the midbass on the amp has a bad solder joint.
When it could cut out, I just had to slightly move the RCA and it would come back on..


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## dkc7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Im having an intermittent issue with a home amp. The shop has had it running a week perfectly. Hooked it up yesterday and worked, today no right channel again. 
Todd I”ll keep my fingers crossed for you.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

Just braved the 7/Feels like -10 and played it for a minute or two… no noises & everything works. Took a little bit to get the drivers themselves loosened up but it plays fine.


JI808 said:


> So after all of this...could've been anything.
> 
> Hitting a bump and it coming back in and playing leads to loose connection. Seeing the setscrews weren't tight adds to that being the culprit.


Agreed.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

So everything has been noise free for the last 4-5 days… until today. Now the right tweeter was intermittently cutting in/out. I managed to fix it though.

So first, the speaker wires just needed tightening and the tweeter is back to working fine. Second, while it was apart… AGAIN… I tightened ALL the speaker wires to be sure. All were snug except the aforementioned tweeter plug and the L mid plug. Third, I will say this… I really like these Alpine PDX amps but I’d like to meet the person that designed the plugs and slap him/her around a bit. Why on this big blue & green marble did they feel the need to use the smallest allen screw they could possibly find?


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## naiku (May 28, 2008)

TheTodd said:


> Third, I will say this… I really like these Alpine PDX amps but I’d like to meet the person that designed the plugs and slap him/her around a bit. Why on this big blue & green marble did they feel the need to use the smallest allen screw they could possibly find?


Yes!!! I hated those stupid plugs, I also hate the plugs that use a tiny screw requiring a jewelers screwdriver (which I can never find when I need one).


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## Stycker (Jan 31, 2018)

Glad your working it out. There is nothing more frustrating than taking your car apart several times to fix problems. Especially in the cold. I have a heated garage but then theres all that winter MUCK on the floor to deal with.


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## TheTodd (Feb 11, 2016)

I do have a garage and with the corvette now long gone it’s open & available but it’s SMALL. The Vette barely fit and with the size of the Avalon it’s just not possible to work on it (at least easily) with the garage door closed. And opening doors is even tighter. At least when I’m working on the trunk I can back most of it in and stay dry… warm is a different story.

I’m fairly confident that everything is finally in 100% working order. With the “new” V9 I tried to match the gains as precisely as possible but it must have been just a tad more than the other because the R side was just a bit much so I used the balance control on the HU to tame it a bit but it never sounded quite right. This morning is pretty warm so I swapped the old V9 back in and I’m back to happy.

While I was at it I swapped out the tweeter caps. If you remember back a bit I accidentally got the wrong value caps and instead of my safety HP being about 2-2.5k it was actually closer to 5k… doh. So a little bit before that awesome cold snap that caused all this I bought new ones but I wanted to wait until all the noises were settled before replacing them. Today was that day.

Old ghetto looking caps (looked ugly but got the job done):









New ones (I used the quick disconnects to ease in replacement just in case & already proved a smart decision):









I gave a _very_ quick listen and it already sounds noticeably better. Not a LOT but it’s also possible it’s also because of putting the other amp back in and/or it’s psychoacoustics and I just _think_ it does. I’ll try to find time to hook up the laptop and play with some new tweeter crossover points. It’s currently 7k (because of the old caps) but I’m going to try dropping it down to the 3.5-5k range and see what works.

But all trim panels and everything else are back in and secured. It feels good.


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