# Blackhole Tiles



## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

Does anyone know a shop that will sell the Blackhole tiles? I want a box of 54 of them, but cannot find anywhere to buy them. I called Orca Design that gave me 3 stores here in Florida, and all 3 say they don't carry it and cannot get it.


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## shutmdown (Aug 24, 2008)

PM Octave. I know he is located in FL and he uses ORCA products


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Bing and Joey at Simplicity-N-Sound, but they are in NorCal.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Bing and Joey at Simplicity-N-Sound, but they are in NorCal.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


Thanks! I got a reply from Joey just now, so hopefully I can buy from them and just have it shipped to Florida.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

maximus5403 said:


> Thanks! I got a reply from Joey just now, so hopefully I can buy from them and just have it shipped to Florida.


:thumbsup:


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## cobb2819 (Jan 13, 2011)

maximus5403 said:


> Does anyone know a shop that will sell the Blackhole tiles? I want a box of 54 of them, but cannot find anywhere to buy them. I called Orca Design that gave me 3 stores here in Florida, and all 3 say they don't carry it and cannot get it.


Where in Florida?


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

cobb2819 said:


> Where in Florida?


Vero Beach.


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

Big Thanks to Duane @ Orca Design! He called the closest shop to my house, explained to them what I wanted and that they do have access to it. Then gave me the owners contact info so I could place my order. I should have my box of tiles within a week.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

maximus5403 said:


> Big Thanks to Duane @ Orca Design! He called the closest shop to my house, explained to them what I wanted and that they do have access to it. Then gave me the owners contact info so I could place my order. I should have my box of tiles within a week.


Did you get a quote? I almost shat my pants. But then again you get a big ole box if I remember.


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

REGULARCAB said:


> Did you get a quote? I almost shat my pants. But then again you get a big ole box if I remember.


I researched online that it's around $250 for a box, so I knew they wouldn't be charging me over that. I got them for $229 plus tax. I figure after having 130 Sq ft of Damplifier Pro to install, I might as well go all the way and get these as well for the doors and quarter panels.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

maximus5403 said:


> I researched online that it's around $250 for a box, so I knew they wouldn't be charging me over that. I got them for $229 plus tax. I figure after having 130 Sq ft of Damplifier Pro to install, I might as well go all the way and get these as well for the doors and quarter panels.


Oh I totally understand, I was seriously considering a box before I too realized I didn't have a local dealer. I would love to chuck a couple in my doors. What is it like nine 4X4 tiles? My memory is crap.


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

54 tiles 4 x 4


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

maximus5403 said:


> 54 tiles 4 x 4


 Yup, crap memory... that's a WAY better deal than I remembered.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm using them too. 







Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Lorin (May 5, 2011)

Ive often wondered how well those work? looks fairly dense (closed cell?)


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Lorin said:


> Ive often wondered how well those work? looks fairly dense (closed cell?)


Two different densities and loaded with some kind of black tar even though I am sure it's not really tar.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

maximus5403 said:


> 54 tiles 4 x 4


Wow, it looks like REALLY nice stuff, but it better be for that price.

So...... PLEASE correct if if I am wrong (and DO note I am using round numbers with NO tax or shipping)

(54) 4x4 tiles = 6 sq ft 

$240/6 sq.ft = $40 sq ft 


And there we have the cost of the "normal" SDS solution---

SDS CLD + SDS CCF + TMS MLV = High Quality vibration damping and deadening

$5.00/sq.ft + $1.25/sq.ft + $1.80/sq.ft = $8.00/sq.ft of high quality damping and deadening

So while it looks really nice, does it perform THAT much better to pay FIVE times as much??


Please don't get me wrong, I LIKE spending money on high quality items for my SQ system in my truck, but

even the Cascade VB3, sometimes considered one of the best "one stop" deadening solutions is "only" $16.00/ sq ft.


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

seafish said:


> Wow, it looks like REALLY nice stuff, but it better be for that price.
> 
> So...... PLEASE correct if if I am wrong (and DO note I am using round numbers with NO tax or shipping)
> 
> ...


Its not meant to be used like ccf or cld. Its meant to kill standing waves in your door.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Well either way it is very expensive for what it might do...seems like one could layer up same materials for much less if one wanted to...but now that I searched diyma for Orca and BH5 and BH tiles, I see that I am not alone in thinking that, so NO need for me to bring it up here again. Sorry to distract y'all.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

And this is going in a gtr too!! Pics please


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

Brian_smith06 said:


> And this is going in a gtr too!! Pics please


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

Looks amazing! Pics of system as well maybe?


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

WhiteL02 said:


> Looks amazing! Pics of system as well maybe?


It's not installed yet. Im pulling out all the interior hopefully this weekend to install the sound deadening, then I'll start installing the components.


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## moparman79 (Jan 31, 2008)

The tiles work really well, I used them on several builds. I see your using the Hertz HSK 163 components. It seems a lot of guys with GTR goes with this set on GTR FORUM. Im working on a plug and play systems.


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## Negolien (May 17, 2010)

Very nice ride my friend congorats.


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## McKinneyMike (Jul 24, 2014)

How much of this are you typically using in a door panel? Just curious. Are you applying in areas where there is no deadener (CLD) applied already? Over the SD?


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

customaudioman said:


> The tiles work really well, I used them on several builds. I see your using the Hertz HSK 163 components. It seems a lot of guys with GTR goes with this set on GTR FORUM. Im working on a plug and play systems.


Yeah, we have a member that became a vendor that makes a complete plug n' play kit. r35audio.com is his site. He provides complete teardown and install instructions as well. It helps a lot of us out.


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

McKinneyMike said:


> How much of this are you typically using in a door panel? Just curious. Are you applying in areas where there is no deadener (CLD) applied already? Over the SD?


I'll be applying Damplifier Pro to the outer door skin, then applying the tiles on top of it. Looking at the pro installers builds, i'll probably be installing 18 tiles in each door. I'm also going to look into the quarter panel area to see if I can fit some in there ( I might as well use the extras! ).


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## McKinneyMike (Jul 24, 2014)

Thanks!


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

The tiles are supposed to be a vibration damper, barrier, and acoustical treatment all in one. I have tested it as a barrier or damper yet, but my tests to see if it absorbed the back wave showed absolutely no difference before and after. The problem is twofold, it's not thick enough, and the coating destroys the effect it might have had.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

maximus5403 said:


> I'll be applying Damplifier Pro to the outer door skin, then applying the tiles on top of it. Looking at the pro installers builds, i'll probably be installing 18 tiles in each door. I'm also going to look into the quarter panel area to see if I can fit some in there ( I might as well use the extras! ).


Or you can sell the extras on here and recoup some of the $$$. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> The tiles are supposed to be a vibration damper, barrier, and acoustical treatment all in one. I have tested it as a barrier or damper yet, but my tests to see if it absorbed the back wave showed absolutely no difference before and after. The problem is twofold, it's not thick enough, and the coating destroys the effect it might have had.


So Chris, if it's not breaking up the back wave (not sure how you tested for this and maybe you could explain further) then what good is it really serving if you have cld, ccf, and mlv already?

I used it in both my front doors because I'm building a competition vehicle and figured it couldn't hurt since so many of the high end shops use it and swear by it.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> I used it in both my front doors because I'm building a competition vehicle and figured it couldn't hurt since so many of the high end shops use it and swear by it.
> 
> 
> Bret
> PPI-ART COLLECTOR


That burban is going to be a freakin tomb. I love all the work you put into it. You might need a CDL just to drive that much weight around though


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

I'll elaborate when I get home, I'm on my phone, but basically used it inside a bookshelf enclosure and played the woofer full range and disconnected the tweeter. Rta sweep with and without, and no measureable difference in response, distortion or decay, aside from a slightly quicker roll off on the very bottom end.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

REGULARCAB said:


> That burban is going to be a freakin tomb. I love all the work you put into it. You might need a CDL just to drive that much weight around though


LOL!
Someday once it's all done I will add it all up and see just how much weight I did pile up inside her.
Everytime I pick up a full sheet of LLP (I think I used a total of 18 sheets  ) it reminds me of how heavy all this stuff has to be.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I'll elaborate when I get home, I'm on my phone, but basically used it inside a bookshelf enclosure and played the woofer full range and disconnected the tweeter. Rta sweep with and without, and no measureable difference in response, distortion or decay, aside from a slightly quicker roll off on the very bottom end.


Interesting.


Here's all ORCA says on their website about it:

Blackhole / High Efficiency Dampening Products

ORCA Design & Manufacturing » Blackhole


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

The first problem is there first bullet point. The thin (maybe a mm thick?) embossed pattern cant possibly affect the midrange and low frequency performance, its just not physically possible, no matter what they claim.

Now the acoustical foam section could work reasonably well down to about 3400hz, except that they have coated it with something. That completely wrecks the functionality it might have had as an acoustical foam.

The floating wall sound barrier could work well, but for it to work at all, you would have to have 100% coverage, which just isn't possible with the thickness of these tiles. 

The vibration isolation area probably works as intended, which is basically a decoupling layer from the vibration damping section to the barrier section.

The vibration damping section may or may not work well. I wont get around to testing that until this weekend. However, I do have this, a test of an empty enclosure, vs polyfil, vs acoustuff, vs black hole. Empty box is green, polyfil is greenish blue, acoustuff is purple, and black hole tiles are tan.

The box has internal dimensions of 8"x8"x15", 3/4" mdf, un-braced and rings like crazy, plus symmetrical dimensions make it a nightmare for standing waves. Basically, this is the dream box to test the effectiveness of everything black hole claims. Speaker is an Imagine I6 ran full range up top with an 80hz high pass at 24db.





And just to be clear, I was really hoping that these would help, since performing as claimed could help a lot of things in the home theater I had at the time I tested, but it just didnt.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> The first problem is there first bullet point. The thin (maybe a mm thick?) embossed pattern cant possibly affect the midrange and low frequency performance, its just not physically possible, no matter what they claim.
> 
> Now the acoustical foam section could work reasonably well down to about 3400hz, except that they have coated it with something. That completely wrecks the functionality it might have had as an acoustical foam.
> 
> ...


So the Blackhole had the most effect but only on very low frequencies.
Did I read you posts right in that you plan to do some more testing with it in the near future?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Yep, it seems like it created more issues at the extreme bottom end, there's a lot more nulls and peaks with the tiles. Of course this is below the crossover frequency.



I do plan on testing it as a vibration damper, hopefully this weekend. I won't end up testing it as a barrier, because there's just no way to use it in a way that would work as a barrier.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I wont get around to testing that until this weekend.
> 
> 
> I do have this, a test of an empty enclosure, vs polyfil, vs acoustuff, vs black hole. Empty box is green, polyfil is greenish blue, acoustuff is purple, and black hole tiles are tan.
> ...



TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL,

wow another great job doing unpaid product testing...lol. And while it DOES look like the Blackhole tile actually has a SMALL influence on low frequency waves, the quesiotn I have to ask now is whether it has an effect any diffrent or better that sticking up a homemade version of it that costs MUCH less then a tile...

I DO have some extra SDS materials, as well as some qulity OCF foam left around the shop...

Do you want me make a few 4x4 tiles from extra SDS material and other foam qaulity foam that have and then ship them to you. I could easily throw something together if you want to test it in comparison to the Blackhole tiles-- I am VERY curious!!!

THANKS again!!!


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

That would be pretty slick to test that. To be comparable to the black hole, it would need the vibration damping layer, ccf, mlv, ocf. I would definitely skip the treatment that the black hole tiles have, since it prevents the ocf from being able to do its job. Pm me sometime and we can figure it out some more. I actually have almost everything i need to make it here except the ocf.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> That would be pretty slick to test that. To be comparable to the black hole, it would need the vibration damping layer, ccf, mlv, ocf. I would definitely skip the treatment that the black hole tiles have, since it prevents the ocf from being able to do its job. Pm me sometime and we can figure it out some more. I actually have almost everything i need to make it here except the ocf.


pm sent with a list of what I have.


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## maximus5403 (Aug 19, 2010)

Got my box of tiles today! They changed the size and quantity. They are now 4"x3" and 72 in a box for anyone looking to purchase.


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## SoundJunkie (Dec 3, 2008)

I have a couple of them in my doors as well


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Just so everyone knows, I'll be testing some DIY versions of these to see if they perform better than the Black Hole versions, for which results are above. 


Seafish, I'll get back to you today, its been one of those weeks.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Chris, Dustin has my care package for you.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL (Jan 31, 2011)

Thanks Bret, we'll probably meet up sometime this week.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Chris, I'm sending you a text. I think I have some OCF as well.


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

Bumping an OOOOLLLLLLLDDDDDD thread. I was just curious what ever came of this product? (I know it still exists...but was a better solution discovered beyond the epic deadener showdown thread?)


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

AFAIK, Blackhole tiles do not provide any measurable difference when installed as directed. Lining your doors with Roxul insulation and inserted into visquene lining can makes a big difference when done right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp71lSN_hH4&feature=youtu.be


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

seafish said:


> AFAIK, Blackhole tiles do not provide any measurable difference when installed as directed. Lining your doors with Roxul insulation and inserted into visquene lining can makes a big difference when done right.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp71lSN_hH4&feature=youtu.be


Can confirm that this is not the case. I will try to get measurements next time we do them. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> Can confirm that this is not the case. I will try to get measurements next time we do them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Please do prove me wrong with measurements!!!


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## nyquistrate (Apr 17, 2011)

SkizeR said:


> Can confirm that this is not the case. I will try to get measurements next time we do them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


I would like to see this as well.


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## willis36 (Apr 12, 2013)

Has anybody used the "sonic barrier" version of these from Parts Express??


https://www.parts-express.com/sonic...nd-damping-material-with-psa-18-x-24--260-535


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

willis36 said:


> Has anybody used the "sonic barrier" version of these from Parts Express??
> 
> 
> https://www.parts-express.com/sonic...nd-damping-material-with-psa-18-x-24--260-535


yes, have used it. same product as soundskins. no comment


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## willis36 (Apr 12, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> yes, have used it. same product as soundskins. no comment



So soundskins has a product that is 1.25 inches thick??? Never seen it. Not trying to be a dick, but did you click on the link? Please correct me if im wrong


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

willis36 said:


> So soundskins has a product that is 1.25 inches thick??? Never seen it. Not trying to be a dick, but did you click on the link? Please correct me if im wrong


Ahh, wrong product. I thought you posted the cld/ccf product. Havent seen this one

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

willis36 said:


> Has anybody used the "sonic barrier" version of these from Parts Express??
> 
> 
> https://www.parts-express.com/sonic...nd-damping-material-with-psa-18-x-24--260-535


That's look to me like a generic version of CAE VB-TSM VB-TSM is a sound absorber, blocker and thermal control material all in one! just without the foil.


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

willis36 said:


> Has anybody used the "sonic barrier" version of these from Parts Express??
> 
> 
> https://www.parts-express.com/sonic...nd-damping-material-with-psa-18-x-24--260-535


I'm currently using it in my doors for GB60's. I do believe improved to my midbass performance. Seems to have attenuated some of the door's resonance.

I have some of this left that I may try in the new sub enclosure I built last weekend for a GB12D2.


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

Is that a door card?


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Measurements don't lie!


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

willis36 said:


> Has anybody used the "sonic barrier" version of these from Parts Express??
> 
> 
> https://www.parts-express.com/sonic...nd-damping-material-with-psa-18-x-24--260-535


I'd be a little concerned that it talks about use exclusively in cabinets and makes no mention of whether it is open or closed cell foam.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Dan750iL said:


> I'd be a little concerned that it talks about use exclusively in cabinets and makes no mention of whether it is open or closed cell foam.


Looks like open cell from photos. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Is there any point to use this for a woofer playing between 30hz to 350hz? Still reading into this topic, My doors already have a layer of SDS CLD tiles at 75% coverage, Second skill Luxury liner pro at 90% coverage.

More nulls and peaks due to the black hole tiles seem to be a huge negative. Would be better off cutting a bunch of second skin CCF instead?

Or am I wasting time and resources for something that has been solved by the rest of the installed products.


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

I have also read that speaker backwave deflectors are a waste of time.


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