# Is the 12w6v2 good for rock/metal music?



## trichuris (Apr 10, 2011)

Hi. First of all, I'd like to say that I listen to a lot of rock/metal music. I'm looking for a good SQ subwoofer that can get a little loud sometimes. After doing some research, I was thinking about a single 12w6v2 in a sealed enclosure. So I ask you: is it good for rock/metal music? I really enjoy the guitar bass and kick drum, and I'd like it to sound tight and clean. Any help is greatly appreciated.

PS: it has been written in a CA&E review about this sub (http://caraudiomag.com/articles/jl-audio-12w6v2-d4-car-audio-subwoofer), regarding to the song "As Hard As It Is", that "the kick drum hits hard with a ton of impact and no hangover, but the kick drum is not all that audible". Does that mean that the subwoofer can't reproduce well the kick drums?


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

ive run 20+ subs in the last 20 + years, ive been running a 12w6v2 on about 1500 watts for about 6 months, yea it gets loud, yea it sounds great, yea it does metal/rock/reggae/rap and funk.

best sub ive ever owned.

get 1.


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## trichuris (Apr 10, 2011)

60ndown said:


> ive run 20+ subs in the last 20 + years, ive been running a 12w6v2 on about 1500 watts for about 6 months, yea it gets loud, yea it sounds great, yea it does metal/rock/reggae/rap and funk.
> 
> best sub ive ever owned.
> 
> get 1.


Thanks for the advice. But ain't 1500 watts too much for the 12w6v2? I think JL website says that the optimum power range for this sub is something around 500 W RMS.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

trichuris said:


> Thanks for the advice. But ain't 1500 watts too much for the 12w6v2? I think JL website says that the optimum power range for this sub is something around 500 W RMS.


no amp can run 100% full volume and sound good,

a 500 watt amp starts to run out of balls (distortion) at about 400 watts and gets worse towards 500, 

a 1500 watt amp can give a 500 watt subwoofer 500 *super clean* (no distortion) watts because its only running about half power.

its like having a 350 HP motor in a car compared to 90 HP.

both cars can do 100 mph, but at 100 one motor is trying really hard,

and the other is cruising.


12w6v2 can handle about 600 watts

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=35

and i give mine 600 clean clean watts.


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## trichuris (Apr 10, 2011)

That's interesting. Previously I was thinking in buying an amp about 500 W (a lot of people recommended the JL 500/1 amp for the 12w6v2). But if I get a more powerful amp, how can I assure it won't overpower my sub? Thanks for the help so far.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

trichuris said:


> how can I assure it won't overpower my sub?


you have to be careful, and *listen* for anything that sounds like it might be a problem.


(just like a car with a very powerful motor, you cant just stomp on the gas, you carefully and skillfully increase power always maintaining control and thinking about whats happening.)

Overpowering = mechanical stress which can be more easily detected/heard and the volume turned down, 


Underpowering = thermal stress that slowly but surely (and quietly) burns a speakers voicecoil.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I second that, best sub I've ever owned. I ran a pair for 6 years and they will play everything from rock to rap very nicely. They sounded kind of average in the JL recommended box size but give them some more air space and they're great. Also work very well in a bandpass and ib setup.


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## alexg5775 (Apr 18, 2011)

Very happy with my 10w6v2 in HO box. Great sql


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

It would not be my first choice, but yes, it is pretty good.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

dragonrage said:


> It would not be my first choice, but yes, it is pretty good.


Give up on it already. You've never heard any of the setups in question but you feel the need to give an opinion. 

BTW, I have the Tempest installed and guess what, you were dead ass wrong. The 12W6 is the better SQ sub period. The Tempest isn't bad and it has more output but then again it is a 15" sub with a 28mm xmax. You give out pure **** for advice when you have never run the equipment in question based on a single parameter. It would be better for those asking advice if you just went away.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

I would go with a dayton sub instead to save good chunk o money. Loving my Dayton ho 15"


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

There are many cheaper subs out there but how much SQ and output are you willing to sacrifice? It seems like every time someone asks how a certain sub performs people reply with a different brand that's cheaper but supposedly outperforms the more expesive one. Your buddy gave some terrible advice, telling me a Tempest would sound so much better than my W6 based solely on the fact that it's an XBL2 motor. The W6 is hands down the SQ winner of the two.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

60ndown said:


> Underpowering = thermal stress that slowly but surely (and quietly) burns a speakers voicecoil.


How long is "slowly"?


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> There are many cheaper subs out there but how much SQ and output are you willing to sacrifice? It seems like every time someone asks how a certain sub performs people reply with a different brand that's cheaper but supposedly outperforms the more expesive one. Your buddy gave some terrible advice, telling me a Tempest would sound so much better than my W6 based solely on the fact that it's an XBL2 motor. The W6 is hands down the SQ winner of the two.


Hands down? In your opinion maybe. When someone has it stuck in heir head a certain brand is the best, a certain sub is the best, it's hard for their brain to even give anything else a true chance.

The w6 has nothing special over the tempest as far as sq. I'm sure they sound slightly different but if u take an unbiased person they probably couldn't tell an audible difference


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

Cruzer said:


> How long is "slowly"?


im not sure, depends how bad its being clipped i spose?


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

i paid $190 to my door for a used 12w6v2, bass has ALWAYS been my primary focus.

almost every sub ive ever used does well in some areas but fails slightly in others.

after 6 months the 12w6 hasnt disappointed me once.


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## Brian10962001 (Jul 11, 2009)

I listen to mostly metal and rock, you're on the right track with the w6v2, but I have to recommend a vented enclosure with higher tuning. I've had many a subwoofer and many a different setup, I have never found a substitute for a nice vented enclosure when it comes to quick kick drums and the likes. Sealed will work but I really think you'll be happier with a ported enclosure.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Cruzer said:


> Hands down? In your opinion maybe. When someone has it stuck in heir head a certain brand is the best, a certain sub is the best, it's hard for their brain to even give anything else a true chance.
> 
> The w6 has nothing special over the tempest as far as sq. I'm sure they sound slightly different but if u take an unbiased person they probably couldn't tell an audible difference


Of course you would say that, I would expect nothing less from you, but you have not heard either and especially back to back. Its easy to say when you're sitting behind your keyboard but I went out and bought both and own both. You're guessing at best.

What can you possibly mean by the W6 has nothing special over the tempest as far as sq? Are you guessing, basing it on a single parameter, what? So your guess, never hearing either back to back in the same setup or even hearing one of them ever is as good as my opinion after owning both? What gives you the right to guess based on nothing?

This arrogance blows my mind. I've had 3 people listen to it that know my system well and without any coaching they all thought I made a mistake with the Tempest. It sounds very good but it's missing some of the detail and warmth the W6 had. I've run 3 different auto tunes and adjusted the eq for the very best sound I can get from it to give it every chance possible. I'm not going to swap it back to the W6, i'm going to wait till the IB15s get here.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

60ndown said:


> im not sure, depends how bad its being clipped i spose?


U can underpowered without clipping. Underpowering does not kill speakers, the user not knowin what they are doing kills speakers

I have had subs rated for 500 watts being pushed by a 400 watt amp since i was 18 and they still rockin hard

@Buick I've heard a couple w7s w3s w1s Dayton AE IB Polk mm. Ican tell u from experience not much of an audible difference. I thought there would be with the lower disortion but as long as it's actual intent is sq it's too hard to hear a difference

I've heard fi q and fi ssd and Rockford and DC and they doing aim for sq and u can hear a difference with these

andno I'm not going by specs when I say w6 has nothingnspeciak over tempest sq wise. U can read all about both subs and both's goals are the same and both meet the goals which is why more than likey if u do hear a diference it's probably insigificant and more than likely mental from seeing jl logo


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> There are many cheaper subs out there but how much SQ and output are you willing to sacrifice? It seems like every time someone asks how a certain sub performs people reply with a different brand that's cheaper but supposedly outperforms the more expesive one. Your buddy gave some terrible advice, telling me a Tempest would sound so much better than my W6 based solely on the fact that it's an XBL2 motor. The W6 is hands down the SQ winner of the two.


Subscribed.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Cruzer said:


> @Buick I've heard a couple w7s w3s w1s Dayton AE IB Polk mm. Ican tell u from experience not much of an audible difference.


I do not see the W6 or the Tempest mentioned above...

If you can't tell the difference in a W7 and W3, I don't know what to tell you. I've heard the AE IB15, W7, and W3. Each one has a unique sound.


Cruzer said:


> I thought there would be with the lower disortion but as long as it's actual intent is sq it's too hard to hear a difference


I don't know what to say to this other than your ears might not be that sensitive.


Cruzer said:


> andno I'm not going by specs when I say w6 has nothingnspeciak over tempest sq wise. U can read all about both subs and both's goals are the same and both meet the goals


Read about both subs? I OWN both subs. Should I go by what my ears hear or what I read on the internet? 3 other people also heard a big difference. The Tempest is not a bad sounding sub but it just doesn't sound as nice. I put some test tones in today and it's pretty much flat on it's face at 70hz. Sounds great on rap. That's not what I wanted though, I wanted something that would play every type of music very well which is what the W6 did.


Cruzer said:


> which is why more than likey if u do hear a diference


"more than likely" is an assumption.


Cruzer said:


> probably insigificant and


"Probably insignificant" is an assumption


Cruzer said:


> more than likely mental from seeing jl logo


"likely mental from seeing the JL logo" is an assumption and I couldn't see the logo from inside the car.

You're not getting it. I own and have run both of these subs and there IS a significant difference which I know from actual listening, not reading reviews. I paid my own money for the Tempest and I WANTED it to sound great so it's not a waste of money yet you call me bias? I'm not trying to be an ass but you and especially your friend bash JL products while recommending others that just aren't as good and it's based on what you've read. It's not even about JL vs others, it's about recommending stuff you've never tried or heard or letting your own prejudices get in the way of good advice. I'm a noob to this stuff, instead of going with my instinct, I decided to listen to your friend and it cost me $200. I had the money to blow and I figured he was full of it based on his reasons for recommending it but what if I had saved up for 6 months for this sub and it was my only shot?

I would recommend the Tempest to anyone wanting what it has to offer. It does offer very good SQ and a ton of output but it's just a notch below what I was running before. I would not, however, recommend it to someone that already had a very good sub setup like I did.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

BuickGN said:


> If you can't tell the difference between a W7 and W3, I don't know what to tell you.


x eleventy billion.


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## tmoney (Oct 10, 2010)

Diamond D6 sounds good!


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## LittleJoe (Feb 16, 2011)

So if I use a JL XD600/1 on my 8w7 then I may run into distortion? 
I need to know because I am buying the JL XD600/1 and installing my sub.
I could go with the HD750/1.


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## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

60ndown said:


> ive run 20+ subs in the last 20 + years, ive been running a 12w6v2 on about 1500 watts for about 6 months, yea it gets loud, yea it sounds great, yea it does metal/rock/reggae/rap and funk.
> 
> best sub ive ever owned.
> 
> get 1.


I second this, had a variety of systems since the 90's, the W6v2 is epic. Mine is in a ported tuned to 34hz and i listen to a lot of rock and metal, pushing 1200 watts to 1 sub and it sounds great. Actually it kinda over powers my 6.5's but what can ya do.
I had it in a Sealed 1.25ft3 box before that...i definitly like it better in ported, still accurate as hell.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

60ndown said:


> x eleventy billion.


The funny thing about that is I honestly wish I fell into that category. It would save me a lot of trouble and money.

Back to Cruiser, I'm trying to give this Tempest X every chance in the world. I've done 4 more tunes with different crossover points. It definitely likes to be crossed low. Or I should say low for my tastes, it's "down" to 70hz. I might try 63hz tomorrow but I don't want to hurt my Dyns. It's slowly getting better and let's not forget, it's not fully broken in yet even though I accidentally gave it some 20hz tones at full volume. Poor thing, I guess it's a good thing it hits xmag before xsus or so I'm told. Again, it sounds very good but it's half a step behind the W6. Much of my previous posts were aimed at Dragonrage and his inability to get past the xbl2 as the only important part of subwoofer design.


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## brianhj (Apr 9, 2009)

LittleJoe said:


> So if I use a JL XD600/1 on my 8w7 then I may run into distortion?
> I need to know because I am buying the JL XD600/1 and installing my sub.
> I could go with the HD750/1.


Distortion? No. Wire the VCs 2ohm on the sub, and it'll go great with the XD600/1. Don't stress so much on which amp "sounds good" with which sub. Worry more about the front end.


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

I'm in love with my 12w6v2. It is crazy good. On an Alpine PDX-M6, it turns my brain into jello. And that's just in a stuffed and sealed box. I wouldn't be able to survive that thing ported. But it sounds soooooo good.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> it's about recommending stuff you've never tried or heard or letting your own prejudices get in the way of good advice. I'm a noob to this stuff, instead of going with my instinct, I decided to listen to your friend and it cost me $200.


i suggested the dayton, and ive heard daytons and i owne a dayton....

idk who your talking about but i cant say i consider anyone on here my "friend"

watch this, this is just how simple it is for someone to be biased or persuaded. thats all i was getting at
YouTube - Audio Myths Workshop


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

Cruzer: Buick either is lying about the Tempest (my bet's on that) or he didn't set it up right. Pics, Buick? Box specs? W6 is not even in the same ballpark as the Tempest.


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## nick650 (Feb 7, 2011)

Under powering DOES NOT kill a sub. Overpowering does.

Sealed is best for the sub. i did 1.5 cube ported and got spanked by my 1.5 cube sealed both in output and low end authority.

I would recommend using a 1.6-1.7 cubed sealed for BEST results.

I run roughly 180 RMS to each sub and it OWNED the output of one at 800 RMS by MILES.

Remember, install is 90% of the setup, 10% is the drivers you use. A good install will make bad drivers sound good and good drivers sound wonderful.


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## tintbox (Oct 25, 2008)

The 12w6's are good on rock and metal for me. I used to run one in a sealed box then two in a sealed enclosure. Then I built a vented enclosure for the two of them. Not only does the attack sound tighter tons more output as well.


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

I want to hear a W6. I've heard a W7 in an audio shop, but that's doesn't even almost count.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

dragonrage said:


> Cruzer: Buick either is lying about the Tempest (my bet's on that) or he didn't set it up right. Pics, Buick? Box specs? W6 is not even in the same ballpark as the Tempest.


I don't think he is lying. It's his opinion.

We can disagree like him saying it needs to be crossed low, the think plays well over 100hz with the same distortion so not sure how it doesn't sound good except 70hz and below

dragon have u read about the w6? Jl knows what they are doing they battle distortion and all the other things like the tempest just differently. I don't doubt it sounds good it's just am not sure it's the best sub out there like Buick says


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

dragonrage said:


> Cruzer: Buick either is lying about the Tempest (my bet's on that) or he didn't set it up right. Pics, Buick? Box specs? W6 is not even in the same ballpark as the Tempest.


You're the biggest douche on the board. You haven't heard either one, yet you think your "guess" is better than my opinion after running both in my car.

Explain why you think the Tempest is better (based on specs since you haven't heard one in real life). I would just as soon piss down your throat than have an argument with you.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

Shouldn't amplifiers be rated at 1% or similar THD. Next, I have heard claims that 1% THD is not audible in the bass range. So if amp is rated for 500watts at 1% THD, shouldn't that be no problem driving an subwoofer rated for 500watt RMS?


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## nick650 (Feb 7, 2011)

THD don't worry for that with subs, they can handle it better then speakers can.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

dragonrage said:


> Cruzer: Buick either is lying about the Tempest (my bet's on that) or he didn't set it up right. Pics, Buick? Box specs? W6 is not even in the same ballpark as the Tempest.


Box specs?....isn't this IB

I guess I don't understand a few of you all's logic when your assumptions are better than a real world test? You've only heard a w7, w3, etc..and no telling what Dragonrage has heard but the question is, have you heard them in an IB setup? You can't comment of if something is better or not, what it can handle, etc...if you've never even heard it or tested it yourself....in YOUR vehicle.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

ZAKOH said:


> Shouldn't amplifiers be rated at 1% or similar THD. Next, I have heard claims that 1% THD is not audible in the bass range. So if amp is rated for 500watts at 1% THD, shouldn't that be no problem driving an subwoofer rated for 500watt RMS?


The only thing u have to worry about is clipping

@Buick yes u have heard both but don't forget it's your opinion not fact...

It's a forum and it's life people can have their own opinion. U have urs dragon has his doesn't mean u have to be a kid and call names or argue


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

ousooner2 said:


> Box specs?....isn't this IB
> 
> I guess I don't understand a few of you all's logic when your assumptions are better than a real world test? You've only heard a w7, w3, etc..and no telling what Dragonrage has heard but the question is, have you heard them in an IB setup? You can't comment of if something is better or not, what it can handle, etc...if you've never even heard it or tested it yourself....in YOUR vehicle.


Was buick's w6 IB? Maybe he just likes sealed better than IB which would explain why he says w6>tempest. I can't remember what his w6 was setup


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Cruzer said:


> Was buick's w6 IB? Maybe he just likes sealed better than IB which would explain why he says w6>tempest. I can't remember what his w6 was setup


He's had it sealed, ported, bandpass, and IB....


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## Brian10962001 (Jul 11, 2009)

Aside from all the back and fourth let me simply answer your question: 
Will that sub will sound great for rock/metal music YES

Will it be the most budget wise option NO

Will it be the bar none best at what you're looking for PROBABLY NOT, but how much time/money do you have to spend looking for that. 

I think this sub sealed, or ported given good power will make you happy


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Cruzer said:


> The only thing u have to worry about is clipping


nope. the only thing you have to worry about is overpowering. clipping doesn't hurt anything.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

quality_sound said:


> nope. the only thing you have to worry about is overpowering. clipping doesn't hurt anything.


why do some amps come with a clipping light on the knob then? for fun?

overpower is fine as long as its clean. 6.5" speakers are rated for 50 watts but u can send them 200 watts as long as u cross them correctly and the power is clean

ive ran 200 watts over the rms of my subs for over a year but it wasnt clipped and they still run fine to this day


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

At what point do we call it overpowering?
Twice the mfg's specs? Less?
How does lowering the gain on an amp that's "too big" play into the equation?


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Cruzer said:


> The only thing u have to worry about is clipping
> 
> @Buick yes u have heard both but don't forget it's your opinion not fact...
> 
> It's a forum and it's life people can have their own opinion. U have urs dragon has his doesn't mean u have to be a kid and call names or argue


Exactly. It's my opinion after having owned both of them and using them in the same configuration with the same amp in the same car. If dragon had run them both and said the Tempest was better, what could I say? At that point it would be a difference of opinion and I would have no issues with that. If he said the Tempest is the best sub he had ever heard after listening to it, I would have no problem with that. But.... this guy has never heard a Tempest. He has never heard a 12W6. Yet somehow he thinks his "guess" is better than my opinion. He can't name a single reason why the Tempest is better except that it has the xbl2 motor which is one of a bunch of factors.

To clear up the confusion, I've run the W6 in every popular configuration. Most recently I went from the W6 in IB to the Tempest in IB. I just can't get it to sound perfect. I'm always adjusting the EQ to get that right sound and it varies from song to song. Before, the only adjustments I made to the W6 was to the level, no need to ever touch the eq no matter what was playing. The output is very nice and the overall sound is very nice. I'm pretty happy with it but as I said, it's a notch below the JL after many hours of listening and tuning.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

I'll sell ya my w6's for.....1 MILLION DOLLARS


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Cruzer said:


> why do some amps come with a clipping light on the knob then? for fun?
> 
> overpower is fine as long as its clean. 6.5" speakers are rated for 50 watts but u can send them 200 watts as long as u cross them correctly and the power is clean
> 
> ive ran 200 watts over the rms of my subs for over a year but it wasnt clipped and they still run fine to this day



because people are stupid. 

go find a 200 watt amp connect it to a W7 (any of them), crank the gains and the volume, and tell me if it EVER dies. hint, it won't. clipping in and of itself isn't bad. every laptop on the planet drives it's internal speakers with clipped signals...on purpose. 

when you clip an amp you increase the average power over time a speaker sees. that's all. if that increase exceeds the speaker's thermal limits then you have a blown speaker. if you don't then it's no different than using a smaller amp. 

overpowering is overpower. you can't continuously send a speaker with a thermal limit of 50 watts 250 watts or it WILL fail. what's confusing you is that you're listening to speakers, most likely mids. since music is dynamic speakers rarely see anywhere near what the amp is rated at. in fact, most mids and pretty much every tweeter will never see more than 15-20 watts because they will play at retarded levels with no more than that. 

this is electronics 101. you can't defy physics.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

UNBROKEN said:


> At what point do we call it overpowering?
> Twice the mfg's specs? Less?


as soon as the average power level exceeds the speakers thermal ratings.



> how does lowering the gain on an amp that's "too big" play into the equation?


it doesn't. an amp will make full power with it's gain set ANYWHERE in it's range. the only thing that changes is the amount of input voltage required to make full power. if the HU doesn't have enough output voltage to drive the amp to full power at all gain settings then you will not make full power at certain gain levels but if you set the gain correctly it won't matter.


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## dragonrage (Feb 14, 2007)

quality_sound is correct. Overpowering is the problem. Clipping actually does raise RMS voltage and power. It does not raise peak voltage. It causes distortion, obviously. It can also be an issue because it will raise the power while lowering the cooling capabilities because the cone will be stationary during the plateaus caused by running out of power supply voltage. Clipping is thus worse than clean overpowering but all overpowering is the issue.

P.S. w6v2 doesn't suck and I never said it does. Shiva/Tempest are better.

p.s.s. BuickGN is still up to his making up lies about people having never heard any subwoofer that they recommend over what he recommends. Don't fall for it. He's also probably lying about trying the Tempest, anyway. And at least I give a lot of useful advice out. All he does is follow people around and make up lies about them because he doesn't like the same stuff that they do.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

BuickGN said:


> Exactly. It's my opinion after having owned both of them and using them in the same configuration with the same amp in the same car. If dragon had run them both and said the Tempest was better, what could I say? At that point it would be a difference of opinion and I would have no issues with that. If he said the Tempest is the best sub he had ever heard after listening to it, I would have no problem with that. But.... this guy has never heard a Tempest. He has never heard a 12W6. Yet somehow he thinks his "guess" is better than my opinion. He can't name a single reason why the Tempest is better except that it has the xbl2 motor which is one of a bunch of factors.
> 
> To clear up the confusion, I've run the W6 in every popular configuration. Most recently I went from the W6 in IB to the Tempest in IB. I just can't get it to sound perfect. I'm always adjusting the EQ to get that right sound and it varies from song to song. Before, the only adjustments I made to the W6 was to the level, no need to ever touch the eq no matter what was playing. The output is very nice and the overall sound is very nice. I'm pretty happy with it but as I said, it's a notch below the JL after many hours of listening and tuning.


He can have an opinion based on what he has read. There is no law that says u cannot have an opinion unless u have used it. Sorry. 

@quality_sound why do people use 200 watt amp on their mids if it's o ky going to use 20 or less? Seams like a waste of money and more stress on electrical for no reason


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Cruzer said:


> He can have an opinion based on what he has read. There is no law that says u cannot have an opinion unless u have used it. Sorry.
> 
> @quality_sound why do people use 200 watt amp on their mids if it's o ky going to use 20 or less? Seams like a waste of money and more stress on electrical for no reason


More so an assumption based off other "opinions" from Dragonage...

I'll take the opinion of a user over an assumption based on #'s any day. There are a few other factors that make that broad statement a little weird..but I think you understand where I'm coming from. Yes, he of course can have an assumption about what it would sound like but when used in the same car, with the same amp, nothing untouched or changed..it's hard to refute those findings.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

dragonrage said:


> quality_sound is correct. Overpowering is the problem. Clipping actually does raise RMS voltage and power. It does not raise peak voltage. It causes distortion, obviously. It can also be an issue because it will raise the power while lowering the cooling capabilities because the cone will be stationary during the plateaus caused by running out of power supply voltage. Clipping is thus worse than clean overpowering but all overpowering is the issue.
> 
> P.S. w6v2 doesn't suck and I never said it does. Shiva/Tempest are better.
> 
> p.s.s. BuickGN is still up to his making up lies about people having never heard any subwoofer that they recommend over what he recommends. Don't fall for it. He's also probably lying about trying the Tempest, anyway. And at least I give a lot of useful advice out. All he does is follow people around and make up lies about them because he doesn't like the same stuff that they do.


Okay. Name one way the tempest is the better sq sub. 

Once again, have you ever heard a tempest? You refuse to answer the question. Any pictures of these subs that you supposedly own? 

Useful advice? I followed your advice and ended up with worse sound. I'm a noob and i realize that but it only took reading a few of your posts to understand that you're biased and full of it. I only give out advice about products I have personally experienced and owned. It would be wise for you to do the same. 

You had to know that sooner or later you would be called on your bs.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Cruzer said:


> He can have an opinion based on what he has read. There is no law that says u cannot have an opinion unless u have used it. Sorry.
> 
> @quality_sound why do people use 200 watt amp on their mids if it's o ky going to use 20 or less? Seams like a waste of money and more stress on electrical for no reason


That would be an assumption, not opinion. Then acting like his assumption holds more weight than my opinion after owning both is called arrogance or ignorance. I bought a tempest just to see if there was any truth in what he said, I don't know what more I can do. I'm actually getting tired of hearing the words 12W6 and Tempest. 

Going to do some more tuning on it today, hopefully I can make some improvements.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

BuickGN said:


> Going to do some more tuning on it today, hopefully I can make some improvements.


Good luck man! You ever find the plans for that 4th order?? I'd kill to have a look at it. I don't think sealed is cutting it for me. I'll toss them in my 3cuft. (30hz) ported box for the time being and see what I think of them. Might have to stuff a little polyfil in there as I hear they like a little more than advertised. The sealed box @ 1.1ish cuft per sub just sounds a little hollow for rock doesn't dig deep like I want it too. I think I can get damn close to the SQ of sealed with a low tuned ported box...of course....4th order would be nice! haha jk


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

ousooner2 said:


> Good luck man! You ever find the plans for that 4th order?? I'd kill to have a look at it. I don't think sealed is cutting it for me. I'll toss them in my 3cuft. (30hz) ported box for the time being and see what I think of them. Might have to stuff a little polyfil in there as I hear they like a little more than advertised. The sealed box @ 1.1ish cuft per sub just sounds a little hollow for rock doesn't dig deep like I want it too. I think I can get damn close to the SQ of sealed with a low tuned ported box...of course....4th order would be nice! haha jk


I know I have it but I never scanned it to the computer. I'll look again when I get home. The only thing I remember is it was 1.29 sealed and 1.8 ported. You should see a big difference in a larger sealed box. 1.5 or 1.6 (can't remember at the moment) worked well for me.


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## nick650 (Feb 7, 2011)

1.6-1.7 is best for a 12w6v2 sealed. You still get the punch while not sacrificing any low end. The 1.25 or w/e the recommended is, is the BEST compromise between sub output and trunk space FYI.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

o·pin·ion/əˈpinyən/Noun
1. A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge

the way i interpret that, u can read about something, and have no experience with it, and come up with your opinion on which product you think would be better.

still waiting for why people use 200 watt amps on speakers that use less than 20 watts for music


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## brianhj (Apr 9, 2009)

Cruzer said:


> still waiting for why people use 200 watt amps on speakers that use less than 20 watts for music


seriously?

headroom... clean power.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

nick650 said:


> 1.6-1.7 is best for a 12w6v2 sealed. You still get the punch while not sacrificing any low end. The 1.25 or w/e the recommended is, is the BEST compromise between sub output and trunk space FYI.


That's exactly what I found too. The 1.25 just never sounded right to me.


Cruzer said:


> o·pin·ion/əˈpinyən/Noun
> 1. A view or judgment formed about something,* not necessarily based on fact or knowledge
> *
> the way i interpret that, u can read about something, and have no experience with it, and come up with your opinion on which product you think would be better.


That pretty much sums up dragonrage's entire argument. No facts or knowledge.


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Exactly. I'll take a factual based opinion over a random opinion that's hasnt even heard these subs. Anyways, this thread has been derailed. I'll look into building a box at 1.5ish after displacement per sub. Any good places for sealed box plans?? Id like to build one with the brace between the 2 chambers also. Now that I think about it, might be the same price to just have one built than buy a whole mdf board


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

brianhj said:


> seriously?
> 
> headroom... clean power.


i understand that, but quality_sound said its useless, tweets and mids only use 20 watts max power and non clean power is clipping right? he said that doesnt hurt them


quality_sound said:


> in fact, most mids and pretty much every tweeter will never see more than 15-20 watts because they will play at retarded levels with no more than that.


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## rhannahs (Mar 5, 2011)

what amp do you guys use to push a single 12w6?


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## nick650 (Feb 7, 2011)

kicker 750.1


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Cruzer said:


> @quality_sound why do people use 200 watt amp on their mids if it's o ky going to use 20 or less? Seams like a waste of money and more stress on electrical for no reason


Headroom. When it's loud and the music peaks it'll need more power for tenths of a second at a time. Smaller amps will clip and larger amps will not. Neither situation will hurt anything, but one will sound better. 

Also, you're not stressing anything with that larger amp. If you're running your mids with a 500x2 amp it's not making 1000 watts, it'll only make as much as the mids need, which will NEVER be 500x2. 

As for it being a waste of money, after a certain point then yes, it's a waste.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Cruzer said:


> i understand that, but quality_sound said its useless, tweets and mids only use 20 watts max power and non clean power is clipping right? he said that doesnt hurt them


Mids, not midbasses. Mids and tweeters, unless they're GROSSLY inefficient (Dynaudio comes to mind), won't need much more than that. Sure, some are more or less efficient than others so that number can vary some, but not enough to need 100+ watts on a tweeter or mid unless you're trying to fill Wembley Stadium with sound.

Clipping is nothing but driving the amp past the point it's outputs were designed for. Instead of the signal being a sine wave the top and bottom of the signal get "clipped" off. that's it. When clipped, and with more and more volume, it'll increase the average power the speaker sees but unless that extra power exceeds the speaker's thermal limit it's not going to hurt anything. Ever. Clipping hurting a speaker has been debunked more times than I can count. Do some research. Educate yourself. Stop regurgitating manufacturers MARKETING and learn the actual SCIENCE involved.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Cruzer said:


> still waiting for why people use 200 watt amps on speakers that use less than 20 watts for music



Well aren't you impatient? I'm stationed in Germany so I'm either 6 or 7 hours ahead of you depend on where in TN you are. I guess I'll interrupt my night's sleep to reply to your post and try to educate you on basic electronics. Ya know, since I don't have anything more important to do, like fulfill my military duties or anything...


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## Brian10962001 (Jul 11, 2009)

Honestly it would probably be best to just pick up a good qualitly pre fab enclosure from eBay or somewhere like that. I haven't built a sealed box in a LONG time, unless it had to be a custom fit it just doesn't seem worth the effort. You can get some REALLY nice enclosures dirt cheap on eBay right now. I've been having my friends search for the Obcon enclosures, I don't know if they had a close out or what, but they can be had for pretty much cost of material :laugh:


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

Sonicelectronix makes nice boxes for cheap, but you may have to buy one of these hatchback shaped boxes to get enough airspace, as their square ones with similar airspace specs are sold out it appears:

Sonic Sub Boxes 1H12-1.4-GRAY (1h1214-gray) Single 12" Hatchback

However, nothing beats building your own box to exactly what specs you want.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

BuickGN said:


> Of course you would say that, I would expect nothing less from you, but you have not heard either and especially back to back. Its easy to say when you're sitting behind your keyboard but I went out and bought both and own both. You're guessing at best.
> 
> What can you possibly mean by the W6 has nothing special over the tempest as far as sq? Are you guessing, basing it on a single parameter, what? So your guess, never hearing either back to back in the same setup or even hearing one of them ever is as good as my opinion after owning both? What gives you the right to guess based on nothing?
> 
> This arrogance blows my mind. I've had 3 people listen to it that know my system well and without any coaching they all thought I made a mistake with the Tempest. It sounds very good but *it's missing some of the detail and warmth the W6 had.* I've run 3 different auto tunes and adjusted the eq for the very best sound I can get from it to give it every chance possible. I'm not going to swap it back to the W6, i'm going to wait till the IB15s get here.


That is due to the tempest having a low distorsion profile. The XBL^2 has been created to lower distorsion and have low inductance. 
Eric Stevens said that distorsion in subwoofers can actually sound pleasing to the ear - one reason my friend prefers the IDmax over my SI Mag v.4. Distorsion is what adds the warmth (maybe details too) to your W6. < not saying it's bad, far from my intention, just that you prefer it (and your 3 buddies). 

Kelvin


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

Out of all the sub-stages I ran in my vehicle....

x2 12w6v2's
x2 IDMax V2's
X2 RE MX15's
x2 Critical Mass UL12's
x2 IDMax V3's
x2 ID12's
x2 TC Sounds 12's
x2 JBL 12Gti MKII's
x2 12" Funky Pups
x1 15" TC LMS Ultra
x1 15" Tempest X2
X3 Arc Audio 10's

Remember, I tried all of these in MY OWN CAR! Not going by "what I heard in a friends truck or shop"

I would say the best setup I had was the two IDMax 12 V3 or the Tempest X2 15. The 12w6v2's are probably near the bottom of the list...


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## Brian10962001 (Jul 11, 2009)

tvrift said:


> Out of all the sub-stages I ran in my vehicle....
> 
> x2 12w6v2's
> x2 IDMax V2's
> ...


*WIN* 

Every subwoofer tested after these didn't count cuz you were def from the XtremeZ Base!


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

I have had a JL 13w6 it was a really nice sub, tight clean lots of jam when you wanted to play, smooth as silk when doing some critical listening....

I also love my IDQ 12v2's..... for the price you can get them for used they can't be beat. 

Never heard the Shiva, so I cannot comment.

Dayton H.O is also a very nice sounding sub for very reasonable money. One of the best bangs for the $$ if buying new IMO.


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## rhannahs (Mar 5, 2011)

This thread made my own decision so much harder. Argh


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## ousooner2 (Jan 6, 2011)

tvrift said:


> Out of all the sub-stages I ran in my vehicle....
> 
> x2 12w6v2's
> x2 IDMax V2's
> ...



Why do you feel those are the best? And why is the JL and whatever else at the bottom? Not coming at you with your post...just wondering haha. A lot of damn tension in this thread so just making sure you know that I'm just asking


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

I want some Funky Pups so I can blow my car apart. That would be so sick.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

My 13w6v2 loaded Stealthbox works great with metal music. Of course, I think a strong midbass presence up front is more important than a subwoofer when it comes to metal reproduction.


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

ChrisB said:


> My 13w6v2 loaded Stealthbox works great with metal music. Of course, I think a strong midbass presence up front is more important than a subwoofer when it comes to metal reproduction.


Finally, someone gets it!!!!!

A strong up front Midbass, is the key to any system!


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

ousooner2 said:


> Why do you feel those are the best? And why is the JL and whatever else at the bottom? Not coming at you with your post...just wondering haha. A lot of damn tension in this thread so just making sure you know that I'm just asking


Let me start by saying that Im a huge fan of LOW bass, I would say 20-30 hz. Some stuff even goes to 15hz and lower. The JLs just couldnt do anything right for me. Sure, they sound decent, but anything below 30hz the the JLs just couldnt cut it. Due to my taste it bass, I chose to run ALL my setups sealed. 

The two IDMax 12v3's shined in nearly all areas, especially in being able to play the 15hz stuff with authority. The LMS was good at it too, but it hated playing anything above 50hz or so..


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

tvrift said:


> Let me start by saying that Im a huge fan of LOW bass, I would say 20-30 hz. Some stuff even goes to 15hz and lower. The JLs just couldnt do anything right for me. Sure, they sound decent, but anything below 30hz the the JLs just couldnt cut it. Due to my taste it bass, I chose to run ALL my setups sealed.
> 
> The two IDMax 12v3's shined in nearly all areas, especially in being able to play the 15hz stuff with authority. The LMS was good at it too, but it hated playing anything above 50hz or so..



It's all in the enclosure. My guess is you had it in too small of a box if running sealed. In an IB setup the 12W6 was a low end monster. It played 20hz with authority and would play down to 10hz even though you could not hear it, the car would rattle like crazy. I'm not sure what you were listening to that went below 20hz unless you were listening to movies in your car. That was what I absolutely loved about it. It had low end like no other but would play very nicely to 70-80hz. I was incredibly happy with it. If it wasn't for lack of output of the single 12 in IB, there's no way I would have changed it. Looking back I wish I would've kept both of them and bought a third one.


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## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

BuickGN said:


> It's all in the enclosure. My guess is you had it in too small of a box if running sealed. In an IB setup the 12W6 was a low end monster. It played 20hz with authority and would play down to 10hz even though you could not hear it, the car would rattle like crazy. I'm not sure what you were listening to that went below 20hz unless you were listening to movies in your car. That was what I absolutely loved about it. It had low end like no other but would play very nicely to 70-80hz. I was incredibly happy with it. If it wasn't for lack of output of the single 12 in IB, there's no way I would have changed it. Looking back I wish I would've kept both of them and bought a third one.


Try an Idmax IB...


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

tvrift said:


> Try an Idmax IB...


No need. I've done the W6, now the Tempest and if my AE IB15s get here in my lifetime I'll have those too. I'm getting more experience than I ever wanted at IB lol. FWIW I have a co-worker that's trying his 10W7 IB. I'm very curious how it's going to sound. He doesn't know a whole lot about audio and some shop sold him the W7 in a ported box that sounds like ass. It has no low end whatsoever. Probably stops playing around 50hz. He doesn't like loud bass but likes quality and the BMW is setup almost perfect (ease of install) for IB. It'll basically cost $20 in materials to make it happen so there's nothing to lose. If it doesn't work, we'll do a sealed or ported box to the right specs.


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## Irishdrunk (Feb 22, 2011)

tvrift said:


> Try an Idmax IB...



I recently put in 2 IDMAX 12 v3's in 1.5 cu/ft (plus about 8 ounces of fiberfill) each running off a PDX-M12, and I gotta say....WOW. Crossed at 63/24db at the moment and I love it. Plus the way its setup, with sub level 0-15, I can cruise at level 5 and the SQ is pretty amazing, or notch up to 15 and piss off chicks on cell phones at stop lights 

Ran a 10-30 hz sweep after reading this for fun, they loved it


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

tvrift said:


> Let me start by saying that Im a huge fan of LOW bass, I would say 20-30 hz. Some stuff even goes to 15hz and lower. The JLs just couldnt do anything right for me. Sure, they sound decent, but anything below 30hz the the JLs just couldnt cut it. Due to my taste it bass, I chose to run ALL my setups sealed.
> 
> The two IDMax 12v3's shined in nearly all areas, especially in being able to play the 15hz stuff with authority. The LMS was good at it too, but it hated playing anything above 50hz or so..


What are you listening to that you think actually has bass that low? Almost nothing has bass that low, even "bass" music.


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