# Dayton Audio Speakers



## BigGeorge (Sep 25, 2010)

I remember a long time ago, Keep_Hope_Alive said this: "I love an active 3-way. Dayton Audio Reference 7" midbass, 4" midrange, 1.125" tweeter front stage, with 4" full/mid rear fill is the best performance for the money, IMO." I actually copied and pasted him to make sure I had the quote right.

Anyway, I do want to go active and I do want to run a 3 way system. Which model numbers of Dayton is he talking about? Do the Daytons get loud? Is there still anything out there that is still the best performance for the money? As far as DSP goes and I'm looking at JL or Dayton. I already have subwoofers, Boston G2 15"s. I actually have six of them but will only be using one or two for this build. Amps will probably be Rockford Fosgate just because I'm old school.

My goal is to put all of that in this Cadillac posted below once I get it painted and do air ride. I'm looking for thoughts, suggestions, or opinions...

Y'all let me know something.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

The aluminum RS180-4 has better specs for a door. From there you can opt for the paper version of the 4" RS100P-4 for less breakup. 

Loud? That's subjective of course, but having ran a whole Dayton setup utilizing the RS75-4 instead, it got loud enough. The weak point is the softer suspension across the line except for the subs so you'll probably have to cross a little higher with a steep filter to help negate power compression. Great bang for the buck, but not block rockers. 

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Bayboy said:


> The aluminum RS180-4 has better specs for a door. From there you can opt for the paper version of the 4" RS100P-4 for less breakup.
> 
> Loud? That's subjective of course, but having ran a whole Dayton setup utilizing the RS75-4 instead, it got loud enough. The weak point is the softer suspension across the line except for the subs so you'll probably have to cross a little higher with a steep filter to help negate power compression. Great bang for the buck, but not block rockers.
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


The paper version does play higher, and is better for a 2-way, but the paper in the doors might be an issue down the road, and since his build is 3-way he won't need the midbass to play too high. I think you're first suggestion of the aluminum version is best. 

I would use this tweeter:









Home


Dayton Audio ND20FA-6 3/4" Soft Dome Neodymium TweeterDon't let the low price fool you! This versatile tweeter is a huge step above the average "budget" tweeter. Conceived with line array thoughts in mind, it is finally possible to achieve the inter-driver spacing needed to minimize comb...




www.parts-express.com





I don't have any experience with their midrange drivers, but I'm sure they're just as good of a value as the rest of their speakers.


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## BigGeorge (Sep 25, 2010)

I think I'm liking the Daytons more and more. To clarify though, can the Daytons keep up with one or two 15"s?


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

BigGeorge said:


> I think I'm liking the Daytons more and more. To clarify though, can the Daytons keep up with one or two 15"s?


"Keeping up" depends on how much power you throw at the 15's. If you want a balanced system with strong, but not obnoxious bass, yes they will "keep up". A speaker's sensitivity determines how loud it will get off of a single watt, so look at the sensitivity numbers to give you a good idea of the output you can expect.

I'm assuming that since you are using a DSP that sound quality is a primary goal, and most any speaker can provide more than enough output for enthusiastic listening.


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

With my 6 channel amp and DSP, I'll be putting 350W each to the the 8's, 170W each to the 4's, and 170W each to the tweets. Wish me luck.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

gijoe said:


> The paper version does play higher, and is better for a 2-way, but the paper in the doors might be an issue down the road, and since his build is 3-way he won't need the midbass to play too high. I think you're first suggestion of the aluminum version is best.
> 
> I would use this tweeter:
> 
> ...


I suggested the paper blend 4", not the paper 7". Unless he's doing custom work to put the 4" RS100P-4 in the doors, they shouldn't be a problem. That year Cadillac has dash locations for a 4". Mounting depth could be an issue though. A lot of old cars didn't have much room in the dash.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Bayboy said:


> I suggested the paper blend 4", not the paper 7". Unless he's doing custom work to put the 4" RS100P-4 in the doors, they shouldn't be a problem. That year Cadillac has dash locations for a 4". Mounting depth could be an issue though. A lot of old cars didn't have much room in the dash.
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


Gotcha, if they aren't in the doors, I'd go with the paper version. Even in the doors, it depends on where you live, I'm in Denver, it's bone dry here, and you could probably get away having the paper midbass in the doors. I put some in a buddies car, but never got to see how they held up over time. But, in a 3-way you wouldn't need the better high frequency response, so there'd be no reason to risk it.


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## JohnL2001 (Jan 19, 2020)

Gen5.7Max said:


> With my 6 channel amp and DSP, I'll be putting 350W each to the the 8's, 170W each to the 4's, and 170W each to the tweets. Wish me luck.
> View attachment 260364


looking to build something like this, what amp are you using and what model #s are the dayton drivers? im old and cant see very well!


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

JohnL2001 said:


> looking to build something like this, what amp are you using and what model #s are the dayton drivers? im old and cant see very well!


RS225-4 and RS100-4 for the Daytons, and ADK1800.6 for the amp.


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## JohnL2001 (Jan 19, 2020)

wow thats a nice amplifier, but WELL out of my price range at the moment. NICE!


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## 209555 (May 3, 2019)

JohnL2001 said:


> wow thats a nice amplifier, but WELL out of my price range at the moment. NICE!


I must be going at this all wrong, running a $1300 dollar amp to drive $60 and $30 dollar drivers.


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

What year Cadillac is that ? 

I have a killer system in a 92 Deville, which while a "late model" was one of the last of the classic shape sedans and has that vintage vibe. 

(I'm running 5" Satoris in modified dash locations, Scan speak tweeters in the pillars, and Satori 9.5" in aperiodic boxes in the doors with an Acoustic Elegance 15" IB in the trunk wall). 

As far as your original query, I will mention I"m running the "Dayton Audio ES180TiA-8 7" Esoteric Series Woofer 8 Ohm" from www.parts-express.com!
ES180TIA-esoteric series 7" woofer in my truck and it sounds really tight, but it works best in a small air space (Its also in a sealed door box). 
Its also 8 ohm, so while it may not work for you I"m confident you'd be happy with Dayton audio drivers especially if you stick to their higher budget models.


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## JohnL2001 (Jan 19, 2020)

Gen5.7Max said:


> I must be going at this all wrong, running a $1300 dollar amp to drive $60 and $30 dollar drivers.


not at all, because i cant afford it does NOT mean its wrong lol. Lighten up.


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## Vx220 (Nov 30, 2015)

JohnL2001 said:


> not at all, because i cant afford it does NOT mean its wrong lol. Lighten up.


I have a similar imbalance, £1300 head unit (P99RS) with amp, subs and components costing less than £300 combined! Apologies for prices in GBP. 
Install, tuning and deadening is key, mine sounds pretty good for what it is


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## BigGeorge (Sep 25, 2010)

I'm sorry I've been missing y'all. I was out of town this weekend. Anyway, so the speakers I should go with are the RS180-4, RS75-4 and, some Dayton tweeters (?). I'm trying to build my Cadillac as a low budget build. I'm trying to show people "you don't have to spend a lot to get a lot" sort of thing.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I'll just pull a quote from a similar thread I responded to. One thing that you may take into consideration is how/where you plan to install your midrange and tweeter. That could affect the size, brand and model I would specifically recommend. 



rton20s said:


> Looks like you've already received some good advice. If I were wanting to go three way in the LS, I would go with a 6.5"-7" midbass in the door and use a small format mid and tweeter built out from the sail panels in a vertical orientation. Many now call these "sail monitors."
> 
> Somthing like what you see below, on a smaller scale. Photo courtesy of Nick Adams and his 2012 GTI Build...
> 
> ...


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## BigGeorge (Sep 25, 2010)

I just saved this post to my favorites! Awesome!!! Alright so based on the comments here, I think I know what I want to go with. I'll do the M-165X, TEBM and SB Acoustics tweets. This is the combo to go with right? Will the combination work the same for the pillars? I planned on going custom. I just have one other question: How loud will it get?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

BigGeorge said:


> I just saved this post to my favorites! Awesome!!! Alright so based on the comments here, I think I know what I want to go with. I'll do the M-165X, TEBM and SB Acoustics tweets. This is the combo to go with right? Will the combination work the same for the pillars? I planned on going custom. I just have one other question: How loud will it get?


That is the combo I would choose for the scenario from the other post. If you're building A-pillars similar to the sail monitors I described in my post, yes, I do think they are a good choice on a budget. If you decide to build sealed kicks for the midbasses, I would probably switch over to the DIY Sound Group Anarchy 7". They will work better in a small sealed enclosure.

There are too many factors to say for sure how loud your system might get. In my opinion, the only answer you really need is "loud enough." But exactly how loud it gets depends on the rest of the equipment you use (namely amplifiers), how you configure your system (enclosures, crossovers, etc.) and how you measure your SPL (peak regardless of frequency, A-weighted, etc.).


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## BigGeorge (Sep 25, 2010)

Well I'm thinking now of going with 3 of the Boston G2 15"s since I can fit them. When I say loud, I need something loud enough to keep up with three 15"s. Albeit these 15"s are not extremely powerful and more entry level, I want to use three because they have symmetry. I will probably do two of the US Acoustics Barbara Ann's and a Big Ben. For the price of one Rockford T2500 I could just about get all three amps and it would stay with the theme of being "budget". So when I say loud, I'm wondering could they keep up?


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

BigGeorge said:


> Well I'm thinking now of going with 3 of the Boston G2 15"s since I can fit them. When I say loud, I need something loud enough to keep up with three 15"s. Albeit these 15"s are not extremely powerful and more entry level, I want to use three because they have symmetry. I will probably do two of the US Acoustics Barbara Ann's and a Big Ben. For the price of one Rockford T2500 I could just about get all three amps and it would stay with the theme of being "budget". So when I say loud, I'm wondering could they keep up?


I always wonder what people mean when they want their front stage to "keep up". If you push those 3 15's to their limits, your front stage would be so loud that you couldn't possibly stand it. This concept of people thinking they need to keep up with their subs is terribly flawed.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Could they keep up? As much as anything else in a 6.5"-7" size as you'll be able to find. Arguably at any price, not just in budget drivers. Yes, they will be plenty loud. 

As gijoe stated, you'll drive yourself out of the car sooner that the drivers will let you down. So long as you have them crossed over and tuned properly.


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## BigGeorge (Sep 25, 2010)

I guess when I say keep up, sometimes on bass heavy songs, the 12"s that I do have over power my Focal 165 V30 component set. I would assume three 15"s of any variety could possibly put out a lot of bass and I want some components that could be heard when I jam it out but also keeping it on a budget. I'm not a bass head. I not a sound quality guy. I like my music loud and I like it to sound really good at the same time. I'm not sure what terminology to use or the relationship between mids/highs keeping up. I do know that when I turn up the volume I want it to get louder and sound dam good at the same time. I do know this, I don't want any pro audio stuff in my ride!


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## BigGeorge (Sep 25, 2010)

Please explain to me what it means when you say the front stage keeping up with their subs is terribly flawed???


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Very simply put, subs should not take lead. They only need to fill out the bottom end to follow a common curve. There's no need in a SQ or even daily driver system to have subs that play at maximum output levels that far exceed the rest of the system. Therefore the rest of the system does not need to keep up.. the subs only need to blend in to make the sound realistic

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

BigGeorge said:


> Please explain to me what it means when you say the front stage keeping up with their subs is terribly flawed???


As I mentioned in my first post. The music will be too loud for the listener to want the front stage to keep up with 3 15's. The subs have way more SPL potential, and if you think you'll find a front stage that can keep up you need pro audio, and HLCD, and your ears won't be happy with you. Your front stage will get loud enough to hurt your ears, and the subs will go even louder. Trying for a front stage that will "keep up" is pointless because any decent front stage will already play louder than you'll want to listen to.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Yep. The more I read, the more I thought "'pro audio' is where this guys needs to go." Skip all of the raw driver brands and get in contact with Eric Stevens at Stevens Audio. A pair of his MB6 or MB8 drivers and some horns and you'll be set.


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## BigGeorge (Sep 25, 2010)

Oh no... NO PRO AUDIO!!! I was just thinking that with three 15"s the system can still sound good with a 3 way right? If the subs fill out the bottom end to follow a common curve I want the top end to be good too. I'm not sure if I'm saying the right things but if I put 500 watts on each sub (x3) for a total of 1500 watts, I need to be able to hear the mids and highs.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

First, Stevens Audio isn't the commonplace car audio version of "Pro Audio." 

Second, the GR Research have the potential to easily reach over 115dB on a bridged Barbara Ann. That is LOUD.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

BigGeorge said:


> Oh no... NO PRO AUDIO!!! I was just thinking that with three 15"s the system can still sound good with a 3 way right? If the subs fill out the bottom end to follow a common curve I want the top end to be good too. I'm not sure if I'm saying the right things but if I put 500 watts on each sub (x3) for a total of 1500 watts, I need to be able to hear the mids and highs.


You're thinking backwards. The mains determine the needed level from the subs to follow the curve. Of course you can dial back the subs so that's achieved, but that's not being stated, nor is there a reason to have that many subs or power to do so with most gear that has been suggested. Just take note of the systems in some of the build logs and also (if noted) just how little sub output is demanded to attain a natural response. 

If you want a block blaster, then most of the drivers suggested aren't going to do it... except pro audio 

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

BigGeorge said:


> Oh no... NO PRO AUDIO!!! I was just thinking that with three 15"s the system can still sound good with a 3 way right? If the subs fill out the bottom end to follow a common curve I want the top end to be good too. I'm not sure if I'm saying the right things but if I put 500 watts on each sub (x3) for a total of 1500 watts, I need to be able to hear the mids and highs.


Of course you can get it to sound good and follow a nice curve, that's not a problem. 

What you won't be able to do is use max output from your subs while still maintaining that curve. Even if your subs are 10dB louder than the midbass, the midbass will already be too loud before you reach the sub's max. 

If you want to max out those sub's output and still maintain your target curve, then you will need speakers designed for high SPL, and you won't be able to stand listening to them at those levels. 

Make sense?


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## BigGeorge (Sep 25, 2010)

I understand what y'all are saying...the system should be balanced. The top and bottom end should be equal. I was just thinking that with three 15"s you might need "more" from the mids and highs. No, I don't plan on blasting my music all day and no I'm not a basser. I bought the 15"s because they were on sale for about $50-$60 bucks a piece. I bought 6. My plan was to put them in a SUV but that a'int happened yet. I figure I might as well throw them in the Caddi and when I measured, three will fit. So I figured why not! I guess I want three 15"s because they not only look impressive, but they should hit. The reason why I don't want pro-audio speakers is because they get stupid loud and not necessarily sound good. Can't you have multiple subs in a SQ(L) system?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Sure you can have multiple subs, but shouldn't it only be enough to reach the desired target output without excessive distortion when nearing the limits? In all honesty , two would probably be more than enough for a daily driver. In a SQ system... one could be enough. I think the issue is you bought more than you actually need albeit the sale price was too tempting, but now you feel the need to use as many as can fit to justify the purchase which is probably audibly impractical. 

Perhaps you can sell a set to fund something of more importance, or store them for backup in the chance of damaging one in use?

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

BigGeorge said:


> I understand what y'all are saying...the system should be balanced. The top and bottom end should be equal. I was just thinking that with three 15"s you might need "more" from the mids and highs. No, I don't plan on blasting my music all day and no I'm not a basser. I bought the 15"s because they were on sale for about $50-$60 bucks a piece. I bought 6. My plan was to put them in a SUV but that a'int happened yet. I figure I might as well throw them in the Caddi and when I measured, three will fit. So I figured why not! I guess I want three 15"s because they not only look impressive, but they should hit. The reason why I don't want pro-audio speakers is because they get stupid loud and not necessarily sound good. Can't you have multiple subs in a SQ(L) system?


I think you're still missing the point, maybe I'm doing a poor job communicating.

You can absolutely have multiple subs in a system focused on sound quality, but don't expect to use all of the output that the subs are capable of and still retain balance. The subs will the potential to get much louder than the rest of the speakers, if you use them to their potential, the rest of the speakers probably will not be able to "keep up", but the point is they don't have to. They will already get loud enough to hurt your ears, why would you want them to do more than that?


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## BigGeorge (Sep 25, 2010)

Y'all aren't doing a poor job communicating. Yes I do have six subs and a need to do something with them. I don't think I will do less than three. I don't have to have them turned up as they could overpower the rest of the system. My thoughts that if three 15"s are played normally in unison, I didn't want them drowning out the rest of the sound. Nor do i want them turned down so low, there wouldn't be a point in having three. But y'all haven't lost me nor are y'all talking over my head. I'm the one doing a poor job communicating. What it be better if said if you have three 15"s would components would y'all choose?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

. Still, I think we're going in circles here. It doesn't matter how many subs you have.. you're going to find that you'll just be keeping them dialed back to achieve the target curve. So that being said, stop stressing over output and find something that fits where you need and mates to each other in response. 

Budget and mounting constraints would determine what I'd go for with Dayton always being my first choice if funds are severely limited. Willing to spend a bit more would just be to include drivers of somewhat higher quality. Start there.... size, mounting depth limitations, and needed bandwidth. 




Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## BigGeorge (Sep 25, 2010)

I sorry if this conversation went in circles. That's not what I was trying to do. Understand I'm still learning about car audio. Reason why I wanted it to be a budget build is because I didn't spend a lot on the subs so I thought that maybe I could get a front stage that's affordable too. And I wanted to show others you don't have to spend a lot to get a lot. I wasn't opposed to getting JL C5's, JL C7's, Audiofrogs, Morel, but I know I can do just as good for much much cheaper without being cheap.


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