# 98 Civic HB - Door Panels and Box/Amp Rack



## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Well, I figure that if I start a build log, I will have to get off my sorry butt and get moving on it. I have a few issues to contend with. Firstly, the door panels and sheet metal will not fit the comps I wish to use. Second, I would like to retain the utility of the hatch for a spare, and trunk space when needed. 

I have started pulling things apart, and developing the mental picture, so now it's just elbow grease and trial and error. 

The culprit:









I think these are beautiful speakers. Although a little flashy for my taste with the orange... The braxial arm and magnet do not allow for a nice and easy install. 

Issues:









Plastic insert is wrecked. I have not located any plastic replacement, but I haven't really looked either. Personally, I figured I may as well use the opportunity to work on my bondo and glass skills by doing a rebuild, mold, and copy with this part. A little concerned about getting the tabs right.










The door panel itself has several cracks... several have already been repaired, but I'll need to do more work so I can use the existing piece as a mold for the custom door panel. 










Damn you! You large beautiful magnet! The push pins won't make it through the sheet metal either.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

The door: circled where my tint was f'd by the weather stip adhesive giving out on me. been slowly removing a little at a time, but what a pain!!










I've gotten this well lined on the inside and out. 1 layer on each side. There are few things more satisfying than closing the door for the first time after applying all that deadening and hearing that solid thunk!










I used looming around the rods to ensure a good seal, but proper movement of the apparatus.

Bondo shaping: 

Sanded the plastic with 80 grit to give it something to hold onto. I'm just trying to shape it out at this point.




























I used some left over dynamat/damplifier to give a little backing. Just peeled back the sticky so it only lined the plastic part and kept it in place, but the bondo didn't stick at all.











Speaker vs. Door:

Blah!










So far, this is about as much as I have done. It's going to be fun, challenging, and I am sure frustrating at some points, but I'm looking forward to seeing it all come together. 

Soon, I plan on getting the trim rings cut out, splitting the door panel in two parts, and working two glass pieces, one top and one bottom, to use as a mold. 
I want to seperate it right along the seams.









Also, I plan on working on the trunk design. I can already see it, so I just need to draw it up. I have an Arc FD4100 and FD1200, and as of right now, an eclipse sw8122 to fit back there. I'd like to pick up a smaller footprint sub that can handle the 1200 at some point, but we'll get there. Thinking about a mag, or maybe a 10 of equal utility.


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

look forward to seeing it since I have a 2000 coupe. I have to fix some parts of the arm rest on my driver door also.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

half a$$ system install:










still sounded nice, but no trunk space and not really astetically pleasing.










pulled it out, and you can see the second skin and luxury liner pro that covers the flooring of the car. hard to explain just how much quieter that made the vehicle, and if you are gonna put a decent system in an older civic, a must IMO.

I'll take pics of the floor when I pull the rest of the interior for wiring and such.










today's project was the mdf rings. I had to recess them fairly deep so the grill would clear the tweater in the braxial arm.










this is the test fit. there was a little space, but I plan on that being taken up when the glassing and finishing takes place. The rings were done it two pieces. the top was bevelled with a 1/4" bit.










mating the rings together, and done for the day.


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## TEGBOY (May 4, 2008)

Ahhhhhh its great to see quality Jasper-jigging  Love it!!


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

the jasper is great! the quality was pretty good, and i am happy with it, but i am a perfectionist by nature, and they are by no means perfect. 

i hit one particular spot where the bit just would not cut through. there were also a few other lines that moved slightly, but nothing a little sanding didn't take off. Also, after the last set of rings i did for the door pods here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-fabrication/58485-fleecing-odd-shape-tips.html

i decided that beveling is the only way to go for me. i would recommend the jasper to anyone.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

sanded down the remaining adhesive on the plastic. now it's nice and smooth









cutting up the door panels



























now for the door panel









the small bit made for a nice clean cut, but it broke part way through the passenger side, so a large diameter disk had to do









oldie but a goodie



























it sat here for a while. i'm still pondering what to do for the box. i'm trying to maintain so space back here...










still working ideas for the box and amp rack. I have about 16" of height from the floor to the rear deck cover. sub is 7" high and 12.5" wide. the box is recommended @ .75 to 1.00, hence the recent polyfill questions.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

nice fit, but I'm going to clean up the sides with glass. i've started taping the sides up and will bond it to the floor panel for a nice snug fit


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

i'm also debating what to do with the door panels. i'm thinking of splitting them down the seem and creating two different pieces to bond back together. this way i can upholster the top and bottom differently as it is now. currently the doors have the vinyl top and plastic bottom. i'm interested in the carbon-look a like fabric but think the whole door done in it may be a little much.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-fabrication/56162-carbon-fiber-fabric.html


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## audio+civic (Apr 16, 2009)

you could two tone it with 2 different vinyl colors like black and grey.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

audio+civic said:


> you could two tone it with 2 different vinyl colors like black and grey.


I'm thinking alcantara on top and the carbon look on the bottom panel. One roll @ 36" x 55" would be just the right if not a touch too small.


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## maxxis (Jun 10, 2008)

Sub'd for the door builds. 

I also have a 98 HB and im always looking for door ideas to change mine at some point in the near future.

Great work so far.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

maxxis said:


> Sub'd for the door builds.
> 
> I also have a 98 HB and im always looking for door ideas to change mine at some point in the near future.
> 
> Great work so far.


Thanks! I'm still going back and forth on if I want to repair these panels, or just go all out, make a mold from the existing panels, and then glass new pieces all together. The plastic pieces on this are pretty torn up along the window ledge. Must be from the previous owner... I am much to careful when removing the panels. 

I would hate to do all the work just to have it crack off again. 

Next, I am going to work out the angles to get the best soundstage, while optimizing leg room and functionality. The current pods keep the glove box from opening fully when the door is closed. Once that is set, I'll just glass the current piece, and then decide on whether to mold or just recover the current panel.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Holidays are come and gone... nice thing is I actually got a day or two to work on some install issues!

Firstly, the ideas have changed. I picked up a used Mag that belonged to Nick. I'm stoked about this, b/c I have been waiting for one of these to come up. This will knock 1.5 to 2 inches off the mounting depth and got me thinking about new ideas. 

My overall goal has been to keep as much utility of the hatch as possible and still carry the spare. The issues for that were both the box size and the amp mounting. I need approx 40" across is the amps are mounted side by side or 22" if they are not. I'm still not sure on this part.

The original design I was working over looked like this:










The sub would angle in, facing the cabin and mount the amps on the back. The issues would have been the 15" of hatch space I'd lose, plus the height of the box would negate any use of the hatch with the seats down. 

Since the mag has 5.5", I decided to use the spare as an extension for the box. I glassed the interior of the spare and will mate that to the rest of the box to net .8 cft based on the amp pushing an underrated 1100w. Here is the glass work:





































This method proved problematic due to the shape of the spare wheel. The indention near the lugs created such a strong pull that it was near impossible to release and it disfigured the mold.

So, Attempt #2

I used plastic to line the wheel and 3m 70 to keep everything in place










Next, I laid down the glass. Chop for the first layer, and weave for the next 2:










I trimmed it to the rim while it cured:










beer thirty came as it cured:










b/c I mixed the batch hot, it did not take long. I used the hair dryer and brush to work the air bubbles out as it cured up. I was concerned about the poor lay down of the plastic, but the end result produced a good piece with minimal air bubbles b/t the first three layers. The plastic helped to pull it all out:










Packing peanut measurement concluded that I gained approx .4 cft with this mold. So the box will need to be approx .4 cuft. This will keep the height down substantially. The amps are nearly 3" high, so this will give me a good start. Next will be locating a good spot for the amps, and frame work. I now plan on mounting the sub inside the space, the amps along the hatch floor, and building a false floor to cover it all. This will hopefully provide full use of the hatch floor, and adequate space for the sub to reach it's potential.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Other things I worked on included the door insert. I sanded it down with fine grit and compared the worked piece to the unworked:










I also attempted some repairs to the door panel plastic. I sanded down the back with 80 grit to get a little grip and laid some chop down to help strenghten it up. I don't expect a strong bond, but hopefully it will do for now.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

I found a local guy that does goodS out of recycled plastic. On Monday, I'll be hitting him up to see if he would be interested in producing any Plugs in plastic. Fingers crossed he says yes.

Hope everyone enjoyed their holiday!


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Love the build. One of my two vehicles is a 1997 Civic EX Coupe and I have been having fits with trying to figure out how to install some deeper component speakers in the door. 

I am looking forward to the rest of your build to give me some ideas.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Love the build. One of my two vehicles is a 1997 Civic EX Coupe and I have been having fits with trying to figure out how to install some deeper component speakers in the door.
> 
> I am looking forward to the rest of your build to give me some ideas.


Thank you! Right now I am thinking I will be doing a glass and bondo work up and a carbon fiber overlay after aiming for better soundstage.

Cutting out the larger circumfrence was easy with the dremel. How deep are your comps?


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Right now I have some Genesis Profile 16 6.5s that I want to try. 

Currently my doors are housing some Alpine Type R 6.5" woofers because they are shallow mounts. Unfortunately, I don't like having them mounted to the door card and would rather build off the steel with treated MDF.

Other options being considered are Alpine SPX Pros, Pioneer Premier 720s, or that PPI comp set that is dirt cheap at the moment. I figured I will try what I have first in lieu of buying more gear without even using what I have on hand.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

So many great choices out there, it's hard to pick one and run with it. I am of the same mind as you though, and will be cutting out another set of rings to match the gap b/t the door panel and the metal after I get the angling down to keep flex at bay.


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## pjhabit (Aug 12, 2008)

Subscribed. Wish I had the fab skills to attempt something like this.:blush:


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

pjhabit said:


> Subscribed. Wish I had the fab skills to attempt something like this.:blush:


Hey, Shawn! Thanks for checking it out. I would encourage anyone to just go for it. There is so much info out there, and the best thing about fg is that you can screw up and repair all you need. Just takes practice. Mine are still far from where I would like them to be, but once you get used to it you can make almost anything at all.


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## keithace (Jan 7, 2008)

good work...keep on it...


i was able to fit my eclipse 6.5s into the doors and still keep the stock grill...barely...its not perfect...but you dont see the imperfections...


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

keithace said:


> good work...keep on it...
> 
> 
> i was able to fit my eclipse 6.5s into the doors and still keep the stock grill...barely...its not perfect...but you dont see the imperfections...


Thank you! I had mbq dkd 116 in the door for a while. they required a little trimming but still fit with the stock grills. I mashed up the grills trying to make door pods, and there was NO saving them. Then i found the cdt at a great price, so the project began.


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## keithace (Jan 7, 2008)

lets us see those doors in current state...


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I glassed a tire too! I went ahead and cut wood to sit on top of the spare to keep me from having to stick wood to it later.

My utilitarian hatch:


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## keithace (Jan 7, 2008)

nice chad...what sub is that?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Dayton 10HO (RS265)


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

chad said:


> I glassed a tire too! I went ahead and cut wood to sit on top of the spare to keep me from having to stick wood to it later.
> 
> My utilitarian hatch:


That came out nice and clean! I'm hoping for the finished product to look very similar. Is that just cloth grill over the sub? The only diff I will have is the amps will (hopefully) fit b/t the spare and the back seats. It may be a tight fit though. I have been spending the last week working ot and moving, so have accomplished very little. 

I received my Mag from Nick, so I'll do some comp pics of the sw88120 and the Mag side by side. I think both are beautiful drivers, and work with similar requirements. I want to build a .8 box and a 1.0 box to do a comparison before finishing the spare enclosure. I think I will also do a/b testing with the two drivers. Also plan to a/b test the second skin speaker tweeker kit. I will install one door and not the other and see if there is a noticable diff. My pops is an audiophile (home), so I'll use his ears and will not disclose which door is tweeked, and which sub is running. 

As for install work, I spent most of the spare time I had sanding down the sides of the wheel mold. It was super tight, so I'm working the sides down enough that the wheel will actually come off when need be.

The door panels have not been worked much. THey are sitting in the new garage waiting to be sanded down a little. I did a quick test fit on the driver side, and it was a little too tight around the support braces. I'm going to sand that portion down on both panels and do another test fit. The bond took nicely and appears it will hold well, so I am happy about that.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I made an MDF ring and recessed expanded steel into it then covered it with un-backed carpet. The weird shape is because it's externally vented, if I went sealed I could have POSSIBLY put the amp where you intended.

As for my tub I did the exact same thing, albeit uglier, but added wood from the get-go. It sucked taping that spare up didn't it? 

Damn, photobucket is giving me fits, I'll pop some pics up in a bit.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

taping the spare sucked, but having the glass stick was worse. i pam'd it up and all that good stuff, but the wrinkles/lines in the wheel itself would not let the piece go! i made the first try a little too thick as well, so it didn't flex enough to get it out cleanly. the plastic worked out well, and gave me some leverage to pull on.

your install looks super clean. any rattles between the wheel and box? what type of hatch is it?


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## pjhabit (Aug 12, 2008)

Sheesh, what's the hold up? Get this install movin'!


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

I have some updates to add, but my wonderful hp laptop fell to the nvidia defect, so comp time has been limited. 

I have several pics to add as well, but for a quick preview:

rain came a couple weeks ago, and i found out that there was a leak in the hatch. I ended up pulling the liner out of the wheel well, and was greeted with a nice puddle. I wasn't sure if it was the gasket around the tail light or not, but found that the sealant around the hatch was cracked, so some marine epoxy was used to seal it up. no more leaks!

I am almost finished building some temp boxes for the sub. I have a .8 and 1 cft box made to test the response of the mag in each. They are cut, and just need to be glued up.

I also plan on doing some a/b testing with the mag and the eclipse al. My pops volunteered to the test ears, so we will put the subs in each box, and do some listening tests with each to note the differences in both box size, and driver behavior. I will also install the speaker tweekers in one side but not the other to see if he can tell the difference.

I cut some baffles out to mount the rings directly to the door panel. I used 1/2" mdf to make the template and will be using epoxy + west systems 403 microfiber to fill the gaps b/t the baffle and the door, as well as the baffle and the speaker ring once the aiming is set.

pics will be coming soon, hopefully tomorrow.

Happy New Year to all!


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## TREOUSAMPS_GP (Dec 24, 2009)

nice work on the tire mold


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## vwtoby (Oct 28, 2005)

how do you plan on finishing the door pods? vinyl?


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Thank you for the comp on the mold. It has required a little sanding for a nice fit but is coming out nicely. I am thinking I will finish it in second skin bed liner or something similar.

As for the door pods, the speakers will mount directly to the door skin via baffle and rings. The door panel itself will be finished in cf overlay and the panel will contour to the front of the mount. I am thinking of mounting the panel to baffle in the same manner as the stock door panel via screws counter sunk to speaker ring. The space b\t the ring and speaker as it is now will allow for a few layers to close up the gap and create a nice snug fit for the grill.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

some quick pics:

puddle in the hatch 









The crack









Fixed up with marine epoxy puddy









Fabbing the box with epoxy and west systems 403 filler to close and seal up any gaps. I rough sanded the contact patches, and wet out the box perimeter and screw mounts with epoxy resin and hardner, then added the filler, and went back over the wet out. Using the sanding and epoxy allows for better penetration into the mdf.

























right now the box is curing up, and the baffles will be the next step...


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

The start of the baffle...


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Nix'd the mdf baffles and worked on doing some fiberglass ones instead. I used West systems resin and filler again. I really like the West Systems resin products. They worked great and the 205 cured quickly. I also like that it has good water resistant qualities as well considering the doors get some splash. The pumps are GREAT, and I'd recommend them to anyone working with any resin system.










Painters tape over the area and in the general shape that I was looking for.










I covered the tape in foil tape afterwards. It kept the contours, and released clean and easy.










I used a "peanut butter" consistency to fill the gaps and keep any vertical sags at bay. The micro-fiber cured quickly, so when it was still tacky, I put the first layer of weave over it, and pushed it up into the contours. 



















Only a little resin was needed to complete the wet out for this layer. I added two additional layers of weave on top of this one.












The back of the finished pieces


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## CA4944 (May 2, 2009)

Wow, West System! Epoxy bling!


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

CA4944 said:


> Wow, West System! Epoxy bling!


lol

i used the regular weave from home depot, but wanted to get good epoxy for the project so I only have to do it once.  The cost of the west system weave is


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

After too long off, I had to get some elbow grease on the install. I had rerun the power wires, and set up the RCAs. Next up is some speaker wires in loom from back to front. I started the following post for imaging and soundstage work. Many thanks to the forum for helping me out. I'll taking the door panels off and re adjusting the rings on the baffle with the speakers in place, and strengthening up the supports to hold the angle. Glove box clears the rings, so it is already a step better than the temp pods I started my fiberglass experience with. The post is here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ps-temporary-baffle-adjusting-angle-mids.html






























I started with what I figured would be the most extreme angle and cut the tape to allow for adjustment in. The tape on the windows follows a suggestion found on this site. I mounted the laser pointer as close to center as I could get. Aimed the laser at my ear and marked the spot it indicated on the window. Then measured 5" forward and 1.5" down and marked that. Still work in progress and not the best looking rig job, but so far so good. Now for a little extra support and a few test runs... Thanks again for all the good suggestions!

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio-sq-forum/5670-adding-depth-soundstage.html

Post #9 for aiming tip


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Door panels off and both sides lined up.




























rcas run down the passenger side, behind glove box










next is project wire. I'm hoping to detour fender removal, but it looks like little choice. The plug looks to be impossible to reach otherwise. 




























Thanks to EEB for the speaker wire. 

i found this vid on running the wire in the door, so I suppose this will be tomorrows goal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teGKfcDPwik&feature=youtube_gdata


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## Dev-1 (Apr 4, 2009)

how did running the wire go? was there enough room in your car? will be interesting to see how well the doorpanel will line up with that speaker ring


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Dev-1 said:


> how did running the wire go? was there enough room in your car? will be interesting to see how well the doorpanel will line up with that speaker ring


Saving the wire run for this coming weekend. Wifey will be out of town and a little extra daylight to play with should help out. I'm sure the fenders will have to come off. As for the ring and panel, I measured up the layout with the panel on so the rings will flush with the pocket. I'm hoping the transition will be smooth. In the pic above, you can see that it's lined up well but will have a signifcant flare to get a good angle.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Well, today didn't go quite as planned. I snapped an axle on the drive home and had to spend the day splitting time between that and the wire runs. Luckily, alls well. Pics of the wire in the passenger side:

fender off and access to the plug. (87 escort turbo cameo)











pulled the plug and the wires have just the right room left for the two 12 ga wires




















Same with the plug in the door. 




















Fished the wires through the boot











And ready the plug back into door and body.











Hopefully the driver side will be tomorrow and then I'll be set to start the hook up for some listening tests.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

If your 98 is anything like my 97, I have potential bad news for the driver's side... There are more wires in the driver's side molex.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

ChrisB said:


> If your 98 is anything like my 97, I have potential bad news for the driver's side... There are more wires in the driver's side molex.


The drivers side molex must be similar as there were wires in the way so it was drill bits and grommets.










ran out of light but had just enough time get it back together.


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## PhatBass (Nov 23, 2009)

Hey bro how do you like the JL 500/5?
I have on that im waiting to install, do yo like the Sub Channel's power output?


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

PhatBass said:


> Hey bro how do you like the JL 500/5?
> I have on that im waiting to install, do yo like the Sub Channel's power output?


I do not have any experience with that amp, but I would assume any jl amps are quality products. Depending on your goals, the right sub would prob sound great in the proper box. I'm using an arc fd4100 for the front and fd1200 for the sub. 

My next steps will be to clean up the wiring and work on the aiming of the mids some more.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

PhatBass said:


> Hey bro how do you like the JL 500/5?
> I have on that im waiting to install, do yo like the Sub Channel's power output?


the 500/5 is the one I posted in my civic.


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

chad said:


> the 500/5 is the one I posted in my civic.


Ever dig up those pics of the wheel enclosure?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

the one that's in the car now?


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

chad said:


> I made an MDF ring and recessed expanded steel into it then covered it with un-backed carpet. The weird shape is because it's externally vented, if I went sealed I could have POSSIBLY put the amp where you intended.
> 
> As for my tub I did the exact same thing, albeit uglier, but added wood from the get-go. It sucked taping that spare up didn't it?
> 
> Damn, photobucket is giving me fits, I'll pop some pics up in a bit.


I was just wondering if you were able to get those pics. Always interested in seeing what others have done.


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## PhatBass (Nov 23, 2009)

chad said:


> the 500/5 is the one I posted in my civic.


Oh my bad, Well my question still stands


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

if your user name depicts your listening style you may want more... Although it's fine for me


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jaysalti said:


> I was just wondering if you were able to get those pics. Always interested in seeing what others have done.


hatch stuffs.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/23845-2007-my-civic-si.html

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/53675-ac-power-civic-si.html


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Great reads! I lol @ "screwed the pooch."

Also reminded me of way back when and crankin on the car with my pops. I wish would have seen that post earlier. I searched before taking on the glassing in the wheel, and in retrospect, would have worked the the mdf and wheel at the same time like you did. Very nice work!


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Where'd my last post go? Sig was dif yesterday as well...


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## jaysalti (Apr 15, 2009)

Cut up the door pockets to shorten them. This way I'll have more room to flush the mids but keep good angling.










also ran some wiring. Speaker and RCA along the passenger.












Comparo pics: sw88120dvc and SI Mag V4












































And amp guts: fd4100


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