# Sound deadening wheel wells?



## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

I follow some guys in India on Instagram and they go all out on the sound deadening. Including CFC and cld in the wheel wells. My car is all already fully deadened but I was wondering if anyone here has gone this far and if it's worth it? 


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Hi, I have researched this topic and read multiple scientific papers on it. I plan to do it in the future.

For best results apply CLD tiles and mlv on the wheel well side. For the tire side, the only solution I can come up with to match OEM materials is below:

http://designengineering.com/boom-mat-flex/

https://www.boatcarpetbuys.com/collections/boat-carpet/products/boat-trailer-bunk-carpet


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## Weigel21 (Sep 8, 2014)

I've thought rhino liner in the wheel well might prove beneficial, but haven't actually done much research on how well it may or may not work.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Weigel21 said:


> I've thought rhino liner in the wheel well might prove beneficial, but haven't actually done much research on how well it may or may not work.




That's a good thought 


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Rhino liner would be a waste. Not enough mass or compound to prevent noise from transferring.

Carpet by itself will yield a couple db decrease in tire and road noise over plastic liners alone.

Problem with spray on solutions is that they lack the mass to absorb and deaden as a whole.


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## ToNasty (Jan 23, 2013)

@Redliner99

Motor concept?


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## bassace (Oct 31, 2011)

I wonder if you could line the inner wheel well with lead. Lead serves the same purpose as MLV, or should I say MLV is a non-toxic alternative to lead. But I've found through research, lead has a better Sound Transmission Loss than MLV, especially below 125Hz. 

If I were to do an extreme deadening, I would use lead in the wheel wells, along with some CLD tiles and using some sort of decoupler from the body. 

I found out lead was an effective barrier from this Nakamichi product called Q-deck, they seem to use a thin layer of lead. Nakamichi

Worst case it should provide radiation protection, right?


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Just don't breath in the fumes lol I'd rather just go mlv and CLD tiles on top of fender.

Either boom mat or marine carpet can go on tire side.

I'm leaning towards marine carpet over boom mat.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

ToNasty said:


> @Redliner99
> 
> Motor concept?




Say what?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

bassace said:


> I wonder if you could line the inner wheel well with lead. Lead serves the same purpose as MLV, or should I say MLV is a non-toxic alternative to lead. But I've found through research, lead has a better Sound Transmission Loss than MLV, especially below 125Hz.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think cascade makes a lead sheet type deal but it's not adhesive I don't think 


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Anyone else have some experience with this?


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Redliner99 said:


> Anyone else have some experience with this?


I have not put the spray on gear onto it yet. (Sludge).

Ideally you would have some idea of the sound spectrum that you want to absorb first...
If it was big 4x4 lugged tyres then that sound is likely lower frequency.

I would probably go with sludge on the outdoor (wet) side, and dynamat (etc) on the side behind the fender... but obviously that could be a lot of work.

At some point the sound will be telegraphed through the suspension bushes, so if those are rubber, then they will telegraph less vibration than a racing bushing of nylon.

Putting a layer of carpet on seems like it would hold salty water onto the metal?


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Holmz said:


> Redliner99 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone else have some experience with this?
> ...


I'm not aware of a reputable car company not using plastic fender liners or coating the sheet metal to resist moisture and corrosion from the factory. If you're in a salt area I'd probably give up on the idea of a spray coating due to it being down over time and trapping moisture and rotting.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

I applied some CLD to the tire side of the rear wheel wells on a C7 Corvette. It made a noticeable difference. When I did the interior I also did the interior side of the wheel wells (more CLD and Cascade lead foil MLV). Tire noise (very loud in these cars) was significantly reduced. Would the tire side CLD make a difference if I had already had the interior done? dunno.


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Bizarroterl said:


> I applied some CLD to the tire side of the rear wheel wells on a C7 Corvette. It made a noticeable difference. When I did the interior I also did the interior side of the wheel wells (more CLD and Cascade lead foil MLV). Tire noise (very loud in these cars) was significantly reduced. Would the tire side CLD make a difference if I had already had the interior done? dunno.




Which cascade stuff did you use? Was it sticky back?


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

I used the VB3 and no, it doesn't have a sticky back. It is formable. A vast improvement over regular MLV.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Bizarroterl said:


> I used the VB3 and no, it doesn't have a sticky back. It is formable. A vast improvement over regular MLV.


Yup the lead sheeting makes it MUCH more moldable then standard MLV....of course you gotta pay to play with it!!!


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

Bizarroterl said:


> I used the VB3 and no, it doesn't have a sticky back. It is formable. A vast improvement over regular MLV.




Did you use the cld to hold it in place?


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## Redliner99 (Mar 26, 2018)

seafish said:


> Yup the lead sheeting makes it MUCH more moldable then standard MLV....of course you gotta pay to play with it!!!




They are very proud of it for sure! 


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Toyota has been lining the exterior portion of the rear wheel wells with a carpet like material for years.

I never realized it before, but this must be an attempt to cut down on NVH.


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## Pb82 Ronin (Jun 6, 2018)

What kind of car is this for?


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## rockinridgeline (Feb 2, 2009)

This has been covered to the extreme in past threats. Put CLD on the wheel wells, no need to cover 100% to stop resonance. Returns start to diminish significantly after about 24% coverage. Then put down a layer of closed cell foam which acts as a decoupler for the mass loaded vinyl that you put on top of that. This is very effective. Considering that most of what we call "road noise" is noise from the tires contacting the road, this can cause a drastic reduction in noise. Look at it this way, if you drop road noise by 3 db, you effectively need half as much power from your amplifier to play at the same perceived volume (3 db increase in volume requires an approximate doubling of power).

Many luxury brand vehicles use MLV or something similar to lessen noise. My Jeep GC uses MLV on the wheel wells and it is very effective.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

Redliner99 said:


> Did you use the cld to hold it in place?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No. Due to its form-ability and how I installed I didn't need to fasten it anywhere. I didn't do the doors though.

FWIW - The C7 Corvette is really noisy. There's minimal mfgr sound deadening and the large run flat tires and race car suspension just make it worse. Before I did the deadening anything over 60mph made the stereo (still OEM) useless and even conversation with a passenger was a abbreviated yelling match. After the deadening I can have a normal volume conversation at 85mph. My wife commented it is now quieter than her Lexus RC350.

Materials used are some SDS CLD tiles, Noico 80mm CLD, Cascade VB-3, Cascade I-12, and Cascade SB-DFB-20R (MLV foam/vinyl/foam).

CLD was added 100% coverage on the exterior of the rear wheel wells. Interior was done with ~25% coverage on floor, tunnel, wheel wells, doors.
Cascade VB-3 installed on floors, tunnel, and wheel wells. Joints were taped (lead tape plus plastic tape covering the lead tape).
Cascade I-12 was applied to the tunnel (where it would fit). This is mostly for thermal control.
For the doors I added a poly panel in place of the OEM thin plastic used for the access port. CLD was applied to ~25% of the poly panel as well as the rest of the door.
The C7 is a coupe. So for the rear deck area (after the CLD/VB-3) I created a sandwich of I-12 + SB-DFB-20R + I-12 that replaces the OEM carpet. To cover that I used a Lloyd Luxe floor mat.

If you're really familiar with C7s and are looking for it you can tell that the surface of the rear carpet is a little higher. That is the only clue visually anything is different. Audibly it it a transformation. 
When I got the C7 I was concerned that it was too noisy to be usable for trips. No concerns now. 

Stereo upgrade is coming.


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

rockinridgeline said:


> This has been covered to the extreme in past threats. Put CLD on the wheel wells, no need to cover 100% to stop resonance. Returns start to diminish significantly after about 24% coverage. *Then put down a layer of closed cell foam which acts as a decoupler for the mass loaded vinyl that you put on top of that. * This is very effective. Considering that most of what we call "road noise" is noise from the tires contacting the road, this can cause a drastic reduction in noise. Look at it this way, if you drop road noise by 3 db, you effectively need half as much power from your amplifier to play at the same perceived volume (3 db increase in volume requires an approximate doubling of power).
> 
> Many luxury brand vehicles use MLV or something similar to lessen noise. My Jeep GC uses MLV on the wheel wells and it is very effective.


Since reading this report, I haven’t been decoupling my MLV with CCF. The report results seem to support better results with MLV alone.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...ight-material-decouple-mass-loaded-vinyl.html


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## Chris12 (Sep 20, 2018)

Pb82 Ronin said:


> What kind of car is this for?


I’m not sure if this question was directed at me, but I have a 2014 Toyota Highlander Limited and a 2015 Toyota Camry XSE- both have carpet like lining the rear exterior wheel wells.


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## bassace (Oct 31, 2011)

Thought I throw this in here, I did in another thread. But Sorbothane appears to be material that is useful as a barrier, absorber, and isolator. According to them "Sorbothane® can absorb over 50 percent of vibration energy over most of its temperature operating range at frequencies from 10 to 30,000 hertz." 

I wonder how it could be used? Replacing both CCF and MLV? Would adhering aluminum to the surface make it an effective CLD tile? 

Maybe someone around here knows more than I do with this material. 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbothane

https://www.sorbothane.com/Data/Sites/31/pdfs/data-sheets/105-Sorbothane-FAQs.pdf

Not too expensive for 6' x 6': https://www.ebay.com/itm/SORBOTHANE...h=item5632a6e004:g:ptgAAOSwEeFU6qgv:rk:6:pf:0


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

My Toyota only has OEM MLV on the transmission tunnel. I don't have rear fender liner's from the factory. 

Would it be bad to put mlv on the tire side exposed to the elements? I guess I could apply Marine carpet on top.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

bassace said:


> Thought I throw this in here, I did in another thread. But Sorbothane appears to be material that is useful as a barrier, absorber, and isolator. According to them "Sorbothane® can absorb over 50 percent of vibration energy over most of its temperature operating range at frequencies from 10 to 30,000 hertz."
> 
> I wonder how it could be used? Replacing both CCF and MLV? Would adhering aluminum to the surface make it an effective CLD tile?
> 
> ...


I took a quick look at this a while back. IIRC, it can get to be quite expensive and doesn't include a sound barrier (vinyl or lead). It is very good at vibration control.


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## Blackbeard (Nov 19, 2014)

Bizarroterl said:


> I applied some CLD to the tire side of the rear wheel wells on a C7 Corvette. It made a noticeable difference. When I did the interior I also did the interior side of the wheel wells (more CLD and Cascade lead foil MLV). Tire noise (very loud in these cars) was significantly reduced. Would the tire side CLD make a difference if I had already had the interior done? dunno.


How well is the CLD on the tire side holding up? I would be worried that it wouldn't last due to vibration, rain, etc.


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

Blackbeard said:


> Bizarroterl said:
> 
> 
> > I applied some CLD to the tire side of the rear wheel wells on a C7 Corvette. It made a noticeable difference. When I did the interior I also did the interior side of the wheel wells (more CLD and Cascade lead foil MLV). Tire noise (very loud in these cars) was significantly reduced. Would the tire side CLD make a difference if I had already had the interior done? dunno.
> ...


I'd probably do boom mat flex over just CLD.


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## Bizarroterl (Aug 5, 2009)

Blackbeard said:


> How well is the CLD on the tire side holding up? I would be worried that it wouldn't last due to vibration, rain, etc.


No problems, but this is on a vehicle that isn't driven much and hasn't been driven in the rain. And I made sure the surface I mounted the CLD on was clean of dirt and oils.


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## K-pop sucks (May 28, 2018)

MLV should be applied on the tire side and CLD on the inner fender liner. I am applying Marine carpet on top of the mlv to further reduce noise. I'm toying with the idea of using 2lb per foot mlv or lead sheeting.


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## Blackbeard (Nov 19, 2014)

Bizarroterl said:


> No problems, but this is on a vehicle that isn't driven much and hasn't been driven in the rain. And I made sure the surface I mounted the CLD on was clean of dirt and oils.


I might feel better about catastrophic detachment or even loosening if the were something like pop rivets holding it down.


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