# JL HD Amps = Done Searching



## Mr. Randy (Apr 21, 2006)

I finally installed my JL HD 600/4 and 750/1 and OH BOY! It amazed me...

Ive tried numerous High End amps from Zapco, Arc Audio, Mcintosh, DLS, Audison, etc.

I just recently removed my Audison LRX 5.1K due to the fact, that in my opinion it has no BALLS! I've always been biased against JL products but the HD's made me think otherwise. I like the fact that its a small footprint, stays cool, differential balanced inputs, and its full range class D which wont take a toll on my electrical system.

Considering its Class D, this amp sounds amazing with a lot of power...I noticed right away after switching over from my audison, was how "lively" and in your face it sounded with added detail...I fell in love. Not as warm sounding that I am use to with my audison and other class ab amps but overall it sounded GREAT! 

I will be soon getting another 600/4 to run a 4 way active system bridging one of the 4 channels dedicated to my midbass...Over the years I was never happy with my system, especially finding the right amp. Being bias against JL for so long, who would've thought I'd fall in love with the HD's. This is a keeper for me and I couldn't be any happier. =)

has anyone else switched over to the HD's and felt the same? I dont think I would ever look back for awhile...


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

I never hated Jello, but the MHD's and HD's are definitely solid, feature-packed amps with a small footprint. They don't sound any different from any other amp of similar power, but they look good and have a quality look/feel to them.


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## Mr. Randy (Apr 21, 2006)

The look never really attracted me but I do agree with you on the build quality of these little amps. Amp is definitely solid with my favorite feature of the amp is the RIPS technology.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

I think their master volume option is a beautiful thing.


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## Mr. Randy (Apr 21, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> I think their master volume option is a beautiful thing.


I agree, I just ordered the HD-RLC control knob for my bass amp =)


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## shibbydevil (Jul 2, 2010)

So I was thinking of doing the exact opposite and goin 600/4 to a 5.1k more so it all matches more than anything. Funny enough my buddy went from the hd jls to a 5.1k and told me he's pissed about it.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

Why were you biased against JL in the first place?


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## Mr. Randy (Apr 21, 2006)

shibbydevil said:


> So I was thinking of doing the exact opposite and goin 600/4 to a 5.1k more so it all matches more than anything. Funny enough my buddy went from the hd jls to a 5.1k and told me he's pissed about it.


I mean dont get me wrong, the Audison 5.1k is a great sounding amp but the HD's just blew me away. the Audison is nice if you want a simple one amp solution for your whole system...the staggered channels is real nice for a 2 way active...although I was really disappointed with the sub channel...it had no balls. just my opinion...



rain27 said:


> Why were you biased against JL in the first place?


In High school everyone had JL's and kids would always brag how bad ass their system sounds...which their system never really impressed me besides the W7...I always felt JL was also way overpriced...and also I was never really into mainstream products...sorry thats just me lol


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## alachua (Jun 30, 2008)

I was the same way. I never ran a JL product until last month, even though I've respected the knowledge Manville has been bringing since the rec.audio.car days. At first it was because the shop I frequented didn't carry them, after that it was because EVERY car on that insufferable Unique Whips show was crammed full of JL gear. Foolish reasons, but most of our purchases are based on at least some silliness.


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## BassAddictJ (Oct 1, 2009)

how muc those jl HD's running now a days?

im not sure if this is true but i heard the guys who did the ppi arts later did Xtant, and now the JL hd's....?


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## D1g1tal V3n0m (Dec 24, 2008)

I thought about picking up a 900/5 but honestly for the price I could not justify it over my Arc 900.6. I refuse to pay 1k$ or even 800$ for a car amplifier. I'd rather put that into my stereo home set ups.


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## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

BassAddictJ said:


> how muc those jl HD's running now a days?
> 
> im not sure if this is true but i heard the guys who did the ppi arts later did Xtant, and now the JL hd's....?


That is correct. Bruce Macmillan designed the AM, DM and Art Series PPI amplifiers, all the original Xtant amplifiers and all of the JL Audio amplifiers since day one, except for the J2's. He's a very talented guy.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

illusive562 said:


> I mean dont get me wrong, the Audison 5.1k is a great sounding amp but the HD's just blew me away. the Audison is nice if you want a simple one amp solution for your whole system...the staggered channels is real nice for a 2 way active...although I was really disappointed with the sub channel...it had no balls. just my opinion...


It seems that you are impressed with the power of the amps over anything else. Obviously you are going to like them better if they have lots more power than you have had in the past. Have you ever compared the high end amps you mentioned with the same power as the JL's, that would be a much more accurate comparison. 

Congrats of the purchase, I do like the small footprint.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Niebur3 said:


> It seems that you are impressed with the power of the amps over anything else. Obviously you are going to like them better if they have lots more power than you have had in the past. Have you ever compared the high end amps you mentioned with the same power as the JL's, that would be a much more accurate comparison.
> 
> Congrats of the purchase, I do like the small footprint.


What's wrong with being impressed with the power and size?

It's not like the "high end" amps should sound any different even with equal power.


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

My only complaint with the HDs is the lack of a decent crossover. How much trouble would it have been to put in a 10x switch?


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

89grand said:


> What's wrong with being impressed with the power and size?


I am just saying that you are sacrificing sound quality for size.



89grand said:


> It's not like the "high end" amps should sound any different even with equal power.


Maybe they shouldn't, but there are a few "high end" amps that do sound much better - IMO.

I do think it is quite funny how many on this forum who believe all amps sound the same are the first to point out that the reason is the "high end" amp is probably not level matched and is providing more power. But when the tables are turned and the (for sake of argument) "non-high end" amps have more power, power is never mentioned as a reason why. Just an observation .


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Niebur3 said:


> Have you ever compared the high end amps you mentioned with the same power as the JL's, that would be a much more accurate comparison.


Unless the "high end" amps are incompetently designed - a condition FAR more likely in a boutique variant of a commodity part like an amp than in a mainstream one, because of the tweakoid nonsense mythology of boutique audio electronics - any "high end" amp worth a damn will sound exactly like a Jello HD.

Besides, I think a Jello HD definitely is a "high end" amp. Don't they range from like $600 to $1050 (flagship MHD900/5) MSRP? For a _car amplifier_ that is bloody expensive. And what does "high end" mean except for a price tag, anyway?


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## Mr. Randy (Apr 21, 2006)

Niebur3 said:


> It seems that you are impressed with the power of the amps over anything else. Obviously you are going to like them better if they have lots more power than you have had in the past. Have you ever compared the high end amps you mentioned with the same power as the JL's, that would be a much more accurate comparison.
> 
> Congrats of the purchase, I do like the small footprint.


Yes i have tried numerous amps with about the same rated power...like i said I was just dissapointed with mainly the sub channel of the 5.1K...anyways I was running passives on channels B of the 5.1k which the rated power is higher than the JL's, and the JL's still blew me away. The sound was just more livelier and smoother imo while the audison was warm sounding yet laid back...the HD's power and size is just a major plus for me. Never thought a full range class D can really sound this good!

Maybe you should hear one for yourself with the same system setup...and lmk what you think =) 



jimbno1 said:


> My only complaint with the HDs is the lack of a decent crossover. How much trouble would it have been to put in a 10x switch?


Yah a 10x switch would be really nice...maybe they didn't wana spoil us with too many features in a small footprint amp =)


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

DS-21 said:


> Unless the "high end" amps are incompetently designed - a condition FAR more likely in a boutique variant of a commodity part like an amp than in a mainstream one, because of the tweakoid nonsense mythology of boutique audio electronics - any "high end" amp worth a damn will sound exactly like a Jello HD.


Don't insult the "high end" amps like that, they have feelings too you know! I was referring more to the McIntosh Amps he mentioned using.....tell me they are NOT competently designed. And before you go there.....yes, they sound different....and by different, I mean BETTER!



DS-21 said:


> Besides, I think a Jello HD definitely is a "high end" amp. Don't they range from like $600 to $1050 (flagship MHD900/5) MSRP? For a _car amplifier_ that is bloody expensive. And what does "high end" mean except for a price tag, anyway?


It also means build quality and, in some cases, better sq!


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Niebur3 said:


> I am just saying that you are sacrificing sound quality for size.


In what way, are they noisy, have high distortion, uneven frequency response?



Niebur3 said:


> Maybe they shouldn't, but there are a few "high end" amps that do sound much better - IMO.
> 
> I do think it is quite funny how many on this forum who believe all amps sound the same are the first to point out that the reason is the "high end" amp is probably not level matched and is providing more power. But when the tables are turned and the (for sake of argument) "non-high end" amps have more power, power is never mentioned as a reason why. Just an observation .


Well, I said there is no reason why they ("high end") should sound better even with *equal* power. I know more power sounds better, but if he was sacrificing sound quality, then wouldn't the JL *not* sound better even if it does have more power?


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## Mr. Randy (Apr 21, 2006)

Niebur3 said:


> Don't insult the "high end" amps like that, they have feelings too you know! I was referring more to the McIntosh Amps he mentioned using.....tell me they are NOT competently designed. And before you go there.....yes, they sound different....and by different, I mean BETTER!


Yes I do agree that Mcintosh Amps are great sounding amps and are built like tanks...but I wouldn't say sound better per say, because I think it all comes down to personal preference to what sounds better and what not... to me they sound really transparent which matched really well with my drz9255...I would've kept them but Mcintosh amps are huge! lol they wouldnt fit behind the bench seat of my truck...that was what started me to search for small footprint amps like the audisons, alpine pdx's, and the JL HD's...anyways I think it all comes down to personal preference to what sounds better and what not...


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## ALL4SQ (Mar 28, 2009)

illusive562 said:


> I finally installed my JL HD 600/4 and 750/1 and OH BOY! It amazed me...
> 
> Ive tried numerous High End amps from Zapco, Arc Audio, Mcintosh, DLS, Audison, etc.
> 
> ...



I'm one of those guys that plays a zero bit track and turns the Volume all the way up looking for hiss. My current pillar tweeters are 8 ohm models. When I ran the Big Kicker 4 channel amps I had a hard time adjusting the gains on the tweeter channels to minimise hiss. When I switched over to the JL HD amps the problem went away. I believe the Rips portion of the HD amp helped with this. The idea of getting the same power output at multiple ohm loads is pretty cool. 

Personally I believe that if you turn off all the options on most of the amps on the market and match the Volume level really close you wont be able to pick out which amp your listening to. There are still differences in amps though. Noise floor, turn-on/off thumps,Heat control,Quality of the connectors on the amp and of course built in crossovers. 

I do know Fosgate builds a preset Frequency curve into there amps. 
But that doesn't mean you can't build a killer system using Fosgate amps. It just means you may need a good EQ to overcome there preset curve that may not work for everyone. 

Gald you had a good experience with JL HD amps. I did too.


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## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

jimbno1 said:


> My only complaint with the HDs is the lack of a decent crossover. How much trouble would it have been to put in a 10x switch?


As you can see, space was a little tight, so choices had to be made...


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Being a JL Audio user, past multi channel user and still using the HD monoblock, what I is, power/size ratio are pretty good. Never used a 600/4 yet, but I still prefer the old way, class AB for higher frequencies range drivers while class D for sub... 

Not to discriminates JL Audio amps in any meaning, just that JL Audio is a great amp, but some other brands are better than it but with higher price tag. Newer full range class D do sound better than older full range class D.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

Its pretty known JL makes great products, but for the same $ u can do even better, or u can get pretty similar results for far less $.


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## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

I've heard lots of "high-end" products that are nothing more than equalizers, and verified it through measurement. One notable example is a "magic" DAC that would make my iPod into a super audiophile machine with a vacuum tube and other crap inside. It did nothing of value, but it did introduce noise and equalization. Several "respectable" publications and blogs gave it rave reviews.

There are some really nice high-end products out there as well, those that pursue audio quality through sensible engineering, good design and quality components. The HD's are one such product. They are the only mobile amps in the world that use the SSC (Single Cycle Control) technology... not the cheapest way to make a Class D, but probably the cleanest and the best in terms of transient response. These are all measurable traits and they all contribute to the overall sonic impression that the product offers, but they are not magical in any way.

I'll put an HD amp up against any comparably powerful amplifier, at any price, of any type. Class D done right is as good as the best linear technologies.


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## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

Cruzer said:


> Its pretty known JL makes great products, but for the same $ u can do even better, or u can get pretty similar results for far less $.


There's a new one.


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## duckymcse (Mar 15, 2009)

The HD-RLC control knob is a great purchase. Perfect control of bass on the fly if you listen to all kind of music.
I don't think I can live without it anymore.



illusive562 said:


> I agree, I just ordered the HD-RLC control knob for my bass amp =)


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

msmith said:


> There's a new one.


Oh sorry i thought everyone knew!!!

Why do u even bother commenting on it? people still buy ur stuff, some dont.
its not like people saying that are decreasing your sales


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## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

Cruzer said:


> Oh sorry i thought everyone knew!!!
> 
> Why do u even bother commenting on it? people still buy ur stuff, some dont.
> its not like people saying that are decreasing your sales


Because I have pride in the company I work for and everything we put into making audio products, and I am human and after 1000 posts saying the same dumb thing, I snap and post a mild comeback. I can go another 1000 posts now without answering another one... thanks! :laugh:


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

Niebur3 said:


> Don't insult the "high end" amps like that, they have feelings too you know! I was referring more to the McIntosh Amps he mentioned using.....tell me they are NOT competently designed. And before you go there.....yes, they sound different....and by different, I mean BETTER!


Yes, the Mac amps seem competently designed. They're not tweakoid idiot boxes as the likes of Genesis and Tru seem to be. Will a Mac sound different than a Jello HD? No, it won't. If you pretend otherwise, you only reveal yourself to be either ignorant or deaf.



Niebur3 said:


> It also means build quality and, in some cases, better sq!


Nonsense. Much "high end" **** is haphazardly built, with flaws in design, parts, or assembly. 

But yes, some people may find a lower-fidelity piece of kit, such as some "high end" multikilobuck thing assembled on some schmuck's kitchen table without regards to technical performance, over a high-fidelity piece of kit such as the Jello HD amps.



msmith said:


> I've heard lots of "high-end" products that are nothing more than equalizers, and verified it through measurement.


Your experience is far from an exception, alas.



msmith said:


> I'll put an HD amp up against any comparably powerful amplifier, at any price, of any type.


Man would I love someone to take you up on that. Said person would, of course, lose a great deal of face when s/he proves unable to distinguish the amps.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

It's mind boggling to me that we even need to keep discussing the sound of amps. In all the years amps have been around, not one single person has ever been verified to be able to tell one apart from another, yet 10-15% of this forum still claims they can, no matter how many times it's proven that they can't.


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## mrstangerbanger (Jul 12, 2010)

I love my slash amps. My stereo sounds better then it ever has with JL amps 

I love them 

great amps


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

msmith said:


> I'll put an HD amp up against any comparably powerful amplifier, at any price, of any type. Class D done right is as good as the best linear technologies.


...and feel ridiculously stupid right afterwards....or sit there and still deny a good class a/b didn't sound leagues better when it's purely obvious..... just as some of the other cheapskate ignorant people on this forum.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

kyheng said:


> Being a JL Audio user, past multi channel user and still using the HD monoblock, what I is, power/size ratio are pretty good. Never used a 600/4 yet, but I still prefer the old way, class AB for higher frequencies range drivers while class D for sub...
> 
> Not to discriminates JL Audio amps in any meaning, just that JL Audio is a great amp, but some other brands are better than it but with higher price tag. Newer full range class D do sound better than older full range class D.


How can you say that you prefer the "old way" when you haven't even tried the 600/4 yet?

And how can you further say that other brands are better, when yet again, you haven't even tried the 600/4 on your tweets/mids?

Give it a chance and base your opinions after that. 

I honestly think either Audison Thesis or Tru will need to make a class D amp before some people are willing to let go of the idea that class D amps are inferior somehow.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> ...and feel ridiculously stupid right afterwards....or sit there and still deny a good class a/b didn't sound leagues better when it's purely obvious..... just as some of the other cheapskate ignorant people on this forum.


Oh no, it continues.

Damn, are you serious, I mean really serious?

*PROVE IT ONCE AND FOR ALL, AND LOOK TOTALLY STUPID WHEN YOU CAN'T SO WE DON'T HAVE TO CONTINUE TO LISTEN YOUR VOODOO NONSENSE.*


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

89grand said:


> It's mind boggling to me that we even need to keep discussing the sound of amps. In all the years amps have been around, not one single person has ever been verified to be able to tell one apart from another, yet 10-15% of this forum still claims they can, no matter how many times it's proven that they can't.


Haha I think you're overstating the case a bit.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

msmith said:


> Because I have pride in the company I work for and everything we put into making audio products, and I am human and after 1000 posts saying the same dumb thing, I snap and post a mild comeback. I can go another 1000 posts now without answering another one... thanks! :laugh:


I imagine it's tiresome, but I hope you continue to defend your product lines.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> Haha I think you're overstating the case a bit.



I don't recall ever hearing about anyone that can picks amps out in a blind listening test, which would be the only way I'd accept it.

I'm not saying that no one could pick out the ****tiest low powered distortion box over a good quality high powered amp.

It was proven that people couldn't even pick out a cheap Pioneer receiver over some high dollar home amp.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> ...and feel ridiculously stupid right afterwards....or sit there and still deny a good class a/b didn't sound leagues better when it's purely obvious..... just as some of the other cheapskate ignorant people on this forum.


You're not going to make many friends if you keep ****ting on their doorsteps like that.


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

89grand said:


> I don't recall ever hearing about anyone that can picks amps out in a blind listening test, which would be the only way I'd accept it.
> 
> I'm not saying that no one could pick out the ****tiest low power amp over a good quality high powered one.


Yeah, I know what you meant. Just busting your balls man.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

msmith said:


> I'll put an HD amp up against any comparably powerful amplifier, at any price, of any type. Class D done right is as good as the best linear technologies.


I would love to see this actually take place as well. It would be great if a legitimate test could be set up so that this could be laid to rest. Some will never accept new technologies being as good as old ones.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

rain27 said:


> I would love to see this actually take place as well. It would be great if a legitimate test could be set up so that this could be laid to rest. Some will never accept new technologies being as good as old ones.



It wouldn't matter, the voodoo believers would still claim they can tell, right after it was proven beyond doubt that they couldn't.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

jimmy2345 said:


> ...and feel ridiculously stupid right afterwards....or sit there and still deny a good class a/b didn't sound leagues better when it's purely obvious..... just as some of the other cheapskate ignorant people on this forum.












You can't handle the truth!


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> You can't handle the truth!


LMFAO!:laugh:


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## tintbox (Oct 25, 2008)

89grand said:


> LMFAO!:laugh:


Perfect!


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

rain27 said:


> How can you say that you prefer the "old way" when you haven't even tried the 600/4 yet?
> 
> And how can you further say that other brands are better, when yet again, you haven't even tried the 600/4 on your tweets/mids?
> 
> ...


Frankly, I don't need a 150W per channel amp to power a 7W drivers(I don't find there's any valid point to get a way over-power amp and turn the gain all the way down to power midrange and tweeters). Also I feed my tweeters with a 22W amp and I still need to set -15dB in order I don't fry my ears for nothing. 
After I get the small amp from DEH-P01, I do found out that it sounds better than my A6450, which is quite interesting. Before this, I always says that JL Audio do sound better than others, like Alpine or Pioneer.
Honestly, I don't think is right that we take subjective feelings to some objective discussions. Especially when one try not to understand properly on other people's statements and start to bash using his own subjective views.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

kyheng said:


> Frankly, I don't need a 150W per channel amp to power a 7W drivers(I don't find there's any valid point to get a way over-power amp and turn the gain all the way down to power midrange and tweeters). Also I feed my tweeters with a 22W amp and I still need to set -15dB in order I don't fry my ears for nothing.
> After I get the small amp from DEH-P01, I do found out that it sounds better than my A6450, which is quite interesting. Before this, I always says that JL Audio do sound better than others, like Alpine or Pioneer.
> Honestly, I don't think is right that we take subjective feelings to some objective discussions. Especially when one try not to understand properly on other people's statements and start to bash using his own subjective views.


Well put!


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## rommelrommel (Apr 11, 2007)

f.it


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

89grand said:


> It's mind boggling to me that we even need to keep discussing the sound of amps. In all the years amps have been around, not one single person has ever been verified to be able to tell one apart from another, yet 10-15% of this forum still claims they can, no matter how many times it's proven that they can't.


You maybe underestimating the number of golden ear members on here.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

bassfromspace said:


> You maybe underestimating the number of golden ear members on here.


I underestimated the number of cheap bastards on here that buy the cheapest equipment possible and then talk themselves into thinking it's just as good as proven great brands so they feel good about being cheap bastards.


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

The output of an amp is measurable, not subjective.


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## tintbox (Oct 25, 2008)

kyheng said:


> Frankly, I don't need a 150W per channel amp to power a 7W drivers(I don't find there's any valid point to get a way over-power amp and turn the gain all the way down to power midrange and tweeters). Also I feed my tweeters with a 22W amp and I still need to set -15dB in order I don't fry my ears for nothing.
> After I get the small amp from DEH-P01, I do found out that it sounds better than my A6450, which is quite interesting. Before this, I always says that JL Audio do sound better than others, like Alpine or Pioneer.
> Honestly, I don't think is right that we take subjective feelings to some objective discussions. Especially when one try not to understand properly on other people's statements and start to bash using his own subjective views.


Well put. All OF my amps are Jl and yes they I like they fair well better than anything I had before that.


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## capnxtreme (Feb 5, 2008)

jimmy2345 said:


> I underestimated the number of cheap bastards on here that buy the cheapest equipment possible and then talk themselves into thinking it's just as good as proven great brands so they feel good about being cheap bastards.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> I underestimated the number of cheap bastards on here that buy the cheapest equipment possible and then talk themselves into thinking it's just as good as proven great brands so they feel good about being cheap bastards.


For the love of God, please produce one shred of evidence for your claims!:laugh:

You are in fact, guilty of the exact opposite.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

89grand said:


> For the love of God, please produce one shred of evidence for your claims!:laugh:


Prove otherwise....it works both ways sphinxster.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

89grand said:


> For the love of God, please produce one shred of evidence for your claims!:laugh:


Why? He'll just respond with "my ears blah, blah, blah"...



89grand said:


> You are in fact, guilty of the exact opposite.


Truth, he keeps getting called, being asked for proof, then says "you're a towel"... I mean "You provide proof".


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Prove otherwise....it works both ways sphinxster.



I have science on my side, you have voodoo, you prove it.

Oh yeah, I don't appreciate you calling me an ******* either. We don't act like that on this forum...any more.


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## tintbox (Oct 25, 2008)

Jimmy havin fun because he's a douche. WOW.


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## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I dont live in vegas.......BUT I am going to bet Jimmy doesnt make it to 100 posts before being removed? Anyone?????
Has anyone read the **** this guy has tossed (into a giant fan by the way)?????
Jimmy do the world a favor and get snipped......stay at home....turn off your computer......well I think you get the picture, I am sure others can add to this list...maybe it can start a new thread!


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

^Or maybe you are overestimating the numbers of golden ears? Take below as example which bust the golden ear's myth :
We all know that Mcintosh is a well built amp(will someone deny this? I hope not), a company in my country do carry this brand as house setup and selling it a sky high price. But their knowledge on room acoustics are 0. Every year there's AV show and this company do take part on it. And the showroom is inside a 300-400 sqft hotel room. Last year they are using XRT1K for the show and this year they are using the smaller type but still, the room was too small for the speakers to show its full potential. When using such big size and numbers of speaker, will it sound great in a small room? I don't think so. But still, some people still dare to boast that they have a pair of golden ears and says it sounded great. 
What I will say is, this is plainly based on a person's preception bias. People always thinks that expensive = good which is a wrong concept.

Wow, never know that it go so fast... Just to add abit more, equipment selection are important, but without proper acoustics treatment, the equipment will same as some cheap junks we can get any where.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Prove otherwise....it works both ways sphinxster.


Already did, but you quit in the other thread.. as in you quit.

Ever seen Goonies.. Mouth?


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> I dont live in vegas.......BUT I am going to bet Jimmy doesnt make it to 100 posts before being removed? Anyone?????
> Has anyone read the **** this guy has tossed (into a giant fan by the way)?????
> Jimmy do the world a favor and get snipped......stay at home....turn off your computer......well I think you get the picture, I am sure others can add to this list...maybe it can start a new thread!




Ooohhh...A ban threat for not agreeing with the nonsense spoken by the "we buy cheap and it's better than old and great cult".

Do you realize a simple 2 second IP addy change can go a long way....if I feel like getting all your panties in a bunch again...that is. I may let you pick your wedgies for awhile.

By the way....I haven't done anything that hasn't been done to me on this forum.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Do you realize a simple 2 second IP addy change can go a long way....


As a former mod I can attest, that's a BIG ****ING RED FLAG.

It's like hunting season.


----------



## alachua (Jun 30, 2008)

jimmy2345 said:


> Ooohhh...A ban threat for not agreeing with the nonsense spoken by the "we buy cheap and it's better than old and great cult".
> 
> Do you realize a simple 2 second IP addy change can go a long way....if I feel like getting all your panties in a bunch again...that is. I may let you pick your wedgies for awhile.
> 
> By the way....I haven't done anything that hasn't been done to me on this forum.


I tell you what Jimmy. I will put my money where my mouth is. A JL HD600/4 is $800 from Crutchfield. You pick WHATEVER amp you think sounds better than it and we'll set up a double blind test. You pick your amp of choice ten of ten times: the JL is yours. Sell it, smash it, use it, whatever you want to do with it. You can't pick out your 'far superior class A/B' amp 100% of the time, you pony up the $800 for me to enjoy my new HD600/4.

If this is as cut and dry as you say it is, you have no reason to worry.

Ball is in your court.


----------



## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

89grand said:


> I don't recall ever hearing about anyone that can picks amps out in a blind listening test, which would be the only way I'd accept it.


I've done it once, admittedly. I easily distinguished a conrad johnson MV55 integrated from inexpensive solid state gear. The tell? A markedly obvious channel imbalance on the conrad johnson! And no balance control, or relative channel level control, of course. Idiot "high enders."



jimmy2345 said:


> I underestimated the number of cheap bastards on here that buy the cheapest equipment possible and then talk themselves into thinking it's just as good as proven great brands so they feel good about being cheap bastards.


Cheap bastards? Jello HD amps are far from cheap. Even used, the HD600/4 is a ~$400 amp.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

alachua said:


> I tell you what Jimmy. I will put my money where my mouth is. A JL HD600/4 is $800 from Crutchfield. You pick WHATEVER amp you think sounds better than it and we'll set up a double blind test. You pick your amp of choice ten of ten times: the JL is yours. Sell it, smash it, use it, whatever you want to do with it. You can't pick out your 'far superior class A/B' amp 100% of the time, you pony up the $800 for me to enjoy my new HD600/4.
> 
> If this is as cut and dry as you say it is, you have no reason to worry.
> 
> Ball is in your court.


I've already bet a 6 pack on his head unit in another thread 2 days ago and he backed down...I'd promote a whole case of beer to him if he could live it the **** up.

You are challenging a keyboard jockey.

"Dave's kid" is not old enough to drink beer.

You have been Brimmered.


----------



## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

jimmy2345 said:


> Ooohhh...A ban threat for not agreeing with the nonsense spoken by the "we buy cheap and it's better than old and great cult".
> 
> Do you realize a simple 2 second IP addy change can go a long way....if I feel like getting all your panties in a bunch again...that is. I may let you pick your wedgies for awhile.
> 
> By the way....I haven't done anything that hasn't been done to me on this forum.


Are you saying you've been banned and have since returned under a different alias to unleash your charm all over again?


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

rain27 said:


> Are you saying you've been banned and have since returned under a different alias to unleash your charm all over again?


I actually enjoy his posts. It's been a while since anyone as dumb as him has been here.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

rain27 said:


> Are you saying you've been banned and have since returned under a different alias to unleash your charm all over again?


Are you saying you are slow and can't put 2 and 2 together without some help from Mom and some glue?


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

we have been brimmered.



Gotta love the new moderation.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Are you saying you are slow and can't put 2 and 2 together without some help from Mom and some glue?


I believe you mom sniffed enough glue while in pregnancy do do us all well.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

chad said:


> we have been brimmered.
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta love the new moderation.


Idiots may be the new protected class, or so it seems.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

89grand said:


> I actually enjoy his posts. It's been a while since anyone as dumb as him has been here.


Thats not true....audiodave/audioimages......Wait a minute......you dont think that this guy is.........


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> Thats not true....audiodave/audioimages......Wait a minute......you dont think that this guy is.........


:laugh:


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

They won't let me mod...


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

seriously read the old stuff and then this wizards gems!


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> seriously read the old stuff and then this wizards gems!


I know. They are =


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> They won't let me mod...


I would, But I can ASSURE you that my vote would not count.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Jimmy, Dave, whatever, sure did pick some weird brands to defend this go round:

Linear Power that has been out of business for at least 7 years

The Alpine 7909 when the F1 status line was much better

and 

Blues Car Audio that uses a Credence woofer with a LPG tweeter. 

Albeit you said I was wrong about my Blues Car Audio assumption in saying that they were a Credence driver with a LPG tweeter. Oddly YOU never did anything other than to say I was wrong and that I needed to prove that I was right to prove that YOU were wrong. Isn't that a double paradox or something?

Anyhow, there is much weird logic in that Jimmy dude's posts. Oh Jimmy, if you think I am getting my boxers in a bunch over something you typed on an internet forum... I am sorry to disappoint you, but I am not. In all honestly, I find you quite entertaining as I do with any of those who use voodoo and say "my ears prove...":laugh: Here is a hint... I can't listen with YOUR ears so break out the precision instruments!


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

chad said:


> we have been brimmered.
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta love the new moderation.


There are other words in the English vocabulary besides "brimmered". How about we show some "proclaimed" intelligence and use some of them. We get the point..."we have been brimmered".

Not state this exact phrase 10 more time tonight before you wack off...then go to bed. 

As I stated before....you are a waste of oxygen.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Dammit.....97 WTF!!!!!!!!! come one mods.........I got $ on this


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> As I stated before....you are a waste of oxygen.


Yet you can't stay away, you're addicted to Chad, you're a Chad addict.:laugh:


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

know how I know your gay? (not you 89 grand....and not there is anything wrong with that....merely for entertainment)


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

ChrisB said:


> Jimmy, Dave, whatever, sure did pick some weird brands to defend this go round:
> 
> Linear Power that has been out of business for at least 7 years
> 
> ...


You are the EASIEST to get your panties in a bunch. You had a beef with LP almost 2 years ago and you still speak about it on a daily basis on an internet forum. Lol. Just can't get over the fact some people are successful and you never will be? Ahhhh.....


If you posers actually got out from behind your computer screens and listened to the equipment you rave about....maybe....just maybe....your eyes would once again become clear to the fact you listen to ****.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

Dave.....gfy!


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> Dave.....gfy!


Or sell some art to someone like Urban Audio Works, maybe you can help resurrect them.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

89grand said:


> Or sell some art to someone like Urban Audio Works, maybe you can help resurrect them.


WOW that was absolutely awesome!!!!!


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Ooohhh...A ban threat for not agreeing with the nonsense spoken by the "we buy cheap and it's better than old and great cult".
> 
> Do you realize a simple 2 second IP addy change can go a long way....if I feel like getting all your panties in a bunch again...that is. I may let you pick your wedgies for awhile.
> 
> By the way....I haven't done anything that hasn't been done to me on this forum.


I'm curious. Why would you participate in a forum where you're not wanted?


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

Autiophile said:


> Gotta love this new moderation scheme where one of my posts gets deleted in an attempt by a moderator to save face and yet **** like this is allowed to continue.
> 
> Facilitating a wonderful environment for thoughtful discussion of sound reproduction.


Stop being a hypocrit.....ALL OF YOU. You all state your opinions, and just because you formed a cult on here to disagree with my experience/opinions...I am doing something wrong? No way. 

Maybe the mods realize I am not doing anything that is not being done to me....ever think of that. If not, go look in the mirror.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

MarkZ said:


> I'm curious. Why would you participate in a forum where you're not wanted?


Well its pretty clear....he knows everything and is going to enlighten all of us as to what is audio and of course how to do it and with what! jeeze have you not been reading is intellectual posts?


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Stop being a hypocrit.....ALL OF YOU. You all state your opinions, and just because you formed a cult on here to disagree with my experience/opinions...I am doing something wrong? No way.
> 
> Maybe the mods realize I am not doing anything that is not being done to me....ever think of that. If not, go look in the mirror.



Guilty as charged. Some of us have formed a cult of intelligence, where science rules and voodoo is dismissed.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

jimmy2345 said:


> Stop being a hypocrit.....ALL OF YOU. You all state your opinions, and just because you formed a cult on here to disagree with my experience/opinions...I am doing something wrong? No way.
> 
> Maybe the mods realize I am not doing anything that is not being done to me....ever think of that. If not, go look in the mirror.


ummm the hotdog thread took that theory out the window!


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Stop being a hypocrit.....ALL OF YOU. You all state your opinions, and just because you formed a cult on here to disagree with my experience/opinions...I am doing something wrong? No way.
> 
> Maybe the mods realize I am not doing anything that is not being done to me....ever think of that. If not, go look in the mirror.


You are doing something called "trolling". You admitted to it when you threatened to circumvent being banned by changing your IP so that you could continue to stir ****. Whether you realized it or not, this was an admission that your intent is to stir ****. ie. troll.

So why are you hanging where you're not wanted on a friday night? I bet you hear that a lot.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> ummm the hotdog thread took that theory out the window!


I prefer to call it the "wiener" thread.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

rexroadj said:


> Well its pretty clear....he knows everything and is going to enlighten all of us as to what is audio and of course how to do it and with what! jeeze have you not been reading is intellectual posts?


I forgot. If your imaging is bad, all you need to do is buy a more expensive speaker that images better.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

jimmy2345 said:


> You are the EASIEST to get your panties in a bunch. You had a beef with LP almost 2 years ago and you still speak about it on a daily basis on an internet forum.


Apparently your sarcasm meter fails over the internet. It's kind of an inside joke with those who know me while reminding me of a time when I once believed fables told to me by Ray. You know, kind of like the voodoo you are preaching now.

Granted, I do have fun picking on Linear Power nuthuggers, I won't lie but it isn't the bane of my existence. I mainly want them to answer "why" it sounds better than arbitrarily say "ZOMG, it sounds better" while tossing out some BS terms that they read in an audiophile magazine.



jimmy2345 said:


> Lol. Just can't get over the fact some people are successful and you never will be? Ahhhh.....


Actually, I am quite successful. I've made way more money and I've made way less money depending on what field I happen to choose to be employed in. Truthfully, I couldn't be happier with the way things are currently going in my life. 



jimmy2345 said:


> If you posers actually got out from behind your computer screens and listened to the equipment you rave about....maybe....just maybe....your eyes would once again become clear to the fact you listen to ****.


What audio store is open at midnight on a Friday night/Saturday morning? You do know that I just use the forums as a source of entertainment, don't you?


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> I forgot. If your imaging is bad, all you need to do is buy a more expensive speaker that images better.


Yeah, those completely over rated, over priced, under performing Blues speakers are all that is needed for max essque!


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

MarkZ said:


> I forgot. If your imaging is bad, all you need to do is buy a more expensive speaker that images better.


Thank god they never wasted time with all that time allignment crap.....wouldnt have take off anyway


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

What audio store is open at midnight on a Friday night/Saturday morning? You do know that I just use the forums as a source of entertainment, don't you?[/QUOTE]

Isnt audio images open this time of night?


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Odd that the Fosgate Gavotte, or the Rockford Symmetry was around way back in the later 80's, early 90's when there was no need for it, what, with all the old school, but wasn't old school gear around back then.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Autiophile said:


> It's been a pleasure interacting with you.


****in liar.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

89grand said:


> Guilty as charged. Some of us have formed a cult of intelligence, where science rules and voodoo is dismissed.


Specs do NOT show how an amps sounds.....just as you cannot look at a speaker and tell how it sounds....

That is not science....it's stupidity.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Specs do NOT show how an amps sounds.....just as you cannot look at a speaker and tell how it sounds....
> 
> That is not science....it's stupidity.


Sure they do, you believing voodoo is showing your ass.:laugh:

Specs show me a lot more than your deaf ears, and voodoo based opinions do.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Specs do NOT show how an amps sounds.....just as you cannot look at a speaker and tell how it sounds....
> 
> That is not science....it's stupidity.


Sucks to be you.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

I keep looking for the trackbacks box to see which ca.com thread he's posting from. "hey gize, look what i said now lol"


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

Autiophile said:


> James, and others who may share similarly misguided beliefs, I'd encourage you to read about the Carver Challenge that stereophile documented. Stereophile: The Carver Challenge
> 
> It's not the Clark Challenge. This is different.
> 
> ...





Secondly, Bob had never before had a chance to listen critically to a "world-class" amplifier like the one we chose as our reference, and ended up admitting that there were things about its sound that he preferred to his own amp. He might, he averred, "do some things differently in future designs." 


Wake up folks. All amps don't sound the same.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Wake up folks. All amps don't sound the same.


Please provide us with a list of acceptable amplifiers...PLEASE!


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Wake up folks. All amps don't sound the same.


True. They all sound like **** in your car. Though I'd be more inclined to blame the installer than the amp.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

MarkZ said:


> True. They all sound like **** in your car. Though I'd be more inclined to blame the installer than the amp.


That's nice. All my comments are unintelligent and your opinion of someone you don't know, whos car you've never heard sounds like ****. Nice.

Get an education. Or....how do you guys say it.....you failed!!!


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

:bowdown:


89grand said:


> Please provide us with a list of acceptable amplifiers...PLEASE!


Please let mine be acceptable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

jimmy2345 said:


> That's nice. All my comments are unintelligent and your opinion of someone you don't know, whos car you've never heard sounds like ****. Nice.
> 
> Get an education. Or....how do you guys say it.....you failed!!!


hmmm didnt you do the same thing to chad?????? Who failed first? the chicken or jimmydave


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> That's nice. All my comments are unintelligent and your opinion of someone you don't know, whos car you've never heard sounds like ****. Nice.


Seem like a familiar tactic?

Seriously though. Your car sounds like an abomination. I know this because the "even a stopped clock is right twice a day" saying doesn't apply to audio installation. There's no way that someone with your limited understanding could have possibly installed something worth listening to.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> hmmm didnt you do the same thing to chad?????? Who failed first? the chicken or jimmydave


What is with you guys posting your girlfriends as your avatar? You do know that beastiallity is illegal...do you not?


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> You do know that beastiallity is illegal...do you not?


Only if you get caught, but since animals can't talk....at least not in the real world, maybe in your la la land they talk to you and tell you things about amplifiers and speaker and stuff.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

jimmy2345 said:


> What is with you guys posting your girlfriends as your avatar? You do know that beastiallity is illegal...do you not?


You do realize you said the same thing about 10 times right.......bimmered?????

My avatar (girlfriend is a 100lb killing machine now) perhaps you should stop by my house un-announced and say hello! If he dont get ya.....well its new hampshire...I can do anything I want. I f'ing love it too! come on down pu....kitty!!!!!!!


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

rexroadj said:


> My avatar (girlfriend is a 100lb ASS killing machine now) !!!!


fixed.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

I have a better idea....Please tell me you live in LA!


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

rexroadj said:


> I have a better idea....Please tell me you live in LA!



I believe it's Oregon.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

its gonna be a ****ing compost pile!


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

Autiophile said:


> James, let's try to focus on jump starting a logical thought process in your head rather than using those few neural pathways for schoolyard insults.
> 
> This is a development opportunity that will save you both money and future embarrassment.


Open your eyes and realize this is a group effort....or are you slow too? Just thought I'd ask seeing as it's quit obvious I am not alone.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Open your eyes and realize this is a group effort....or are you slow too? Just thought I'd ask seeing as it's quit obvious I am not alone.


You seem to be alone. Not one single member is agreeing with you.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> he started it


....


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> Open your eyes and realize this is a group effort....or are you slow too? Just thought I'd ask seeing as it's quit obvious I am not alone.


This should be good.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> ....


:laugh:

Pretty much.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Autiophile said:


> Again with the insults. I'm trying to engage you in reasonable debate.



His reasonable debate ended at childbirth, evidently he lost the debate.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

If only there were lifeguards on duty at the gene pool!


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

Autiophile said:


> Again with the insults. I'm trying to engage you in reasonable debate.
> 
> I provided evidence to back my assertion. Where is your substantive evidence?
> 
> ...




One sided debate.....not because I am wrong in any case.

If I form a gang and you come walking down the street and want to involve my gang in a conversation.....we beat the **** out of you because we don't like what you are wearing....are we right? Didn't think so.

Take your nonsense elsewhere.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Take your nonsense elsewhere.



That's excellent advice, but since you know we're too dumb to take it, I assume you'll be heeding it.


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

Classic. The soon-to-be-jettisoned jimmy telling people to go away.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> One sided debate.....not because I am wrong in any case.


NO, James, Jimmy, JIMMAY!, whatever. You are NOT WRONG, yet, we just ask that you back it up with empirical proof, that's all man. I have here, everyone has, but you refuse to engage....



PLEASE MAN, engage in something smart, bring something to the table we can talk about.


----------



## rexroadj (Oct 31, 2008)

jimmy your kinda like an old lady....sort of like below.....

YouTube - ‪A Warm Glass Of Shut the hell up‬‎

ps. the name tag says diyma


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

The problem with jimmy, and his limited understanding of audio, and his substandard car audio system, and his hoarding obsession, is that he won't engage because his entire schtick consists of one-liners from ca.com. But at some point he decided to switch exclusively to trolling. Getting him to switch back, as autiophile tried to do, seems like a pretty fruitless endeavor.


----------



## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

chad said:


> NO, James, Jimmy, JIMMAY!, whatever. You are NOT WRONG, yet, we just ask that you back it up with empirical proof, that's all man. I have here, everyone has, but you refuse to engage....
> 
> 
> 
> PLEASE MAN, engage in something smart, bring something to the table we can talk about.


only thing he has to bring is a big pile of gear. more than you have ever owned Chad.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

wheelieking71 said:


> only thing he has to bring is a big pile of gear. more than you have ever owned Chad.


Are you jealous? I pulled your card along time ago wheelieking.....you are another one of these band wagon jumpers who has to sell equipment to buy the latest DIY boner. I know a few people you have interacted with out there in AZ. It's a small world.

Purple 2.2HV......etc.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Are you jealous? I pulled your card along time ago wheelieking.....you are another one of these band wagon jumpers who has to sell equipment to buy the latest DIY boner. I know a few people you have interacted with out there in AZ. It's a small world.
> 
> Purple 2.2HV......etc.


I've interacted with him, and he sure isn't the voodoo pedaling moron that you seem to be.


----------



## rc10mike (Mar 27, 2008)

You can make 5 different cars go 0-60 in the same amount of time.

Does that mean they are all equal?

:lurk:


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

tvrift said:


> You can make 5 different cars go 0-60 in the same amount of time.
> 
> Does that mean they are all equal?
> 
> :lurk:


Maybe I'm just buzzed, but I'm not getting your point.


----------



## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

89grand said:


> I've interacted with him, and he sure isn't the voodoo pedaling moron that you seem to be.


I don't pedal....if I want something..I buy it. Not because this forum seems to have a boner over it....because it sounds good to me.


----------



## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

what are you trying to say? oh, and i live in AZ i have interected with lots of people. and i sold the 2.2 to kappa, who bye the way doesnt live here. and you sure know alot about me for never having interacted with me. talk about a forum boner.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

wheelieking71 said:


> only thing he has to bring is a big pile of gear. more than you have ever owned Chad.


When it comes to piles of gear... dear god man.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

tvrift said:


> You can make 5 different cars go 0-60 in the same amount of time.
> 
> Does that mean they are all equal?
> 
> :lurk:


Yes, in their 0-60 time.


----------



## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

oh and i sold the 2.2 because the tiny little SS REF classA 3.0 i was A/Bing it with at the time sounded just as good, barely covered my hand, and costs 1/5 the jing. made perfect sense to me. oh, and bye the way, im about as far from a bandwagon jumper as you will find. just an FYI


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

wheelieking71 said:


> oh and i sold the 2.2 because the tiny little SS REF classA 3.0 i was A/Bing it with at the time sounded just as good, barely covered my hand, and costs 1/5 the jing. made perfect sense to me.


Explaining what you're doing, using a logical approach to decision making is only going to confuse jimmy dave robot underground, that much more


----------



## DarkScorpion (Nov 22, 2009)

:inout:


----------



## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

jimmy2345 said:


> I don't pedal....if I want something..I buy it. Not because this forum seems to have a boner over it....because it sounds good to me.


I like how jimmy thinks that this forum is a single entity, where everyone shares the same goals, opinions, and purchasing habits. He thinks he's the only one with opinions that differ from the rest, and he thinks that people don't like him because of it. Little does he know that people don't like him, not because of his opinions, but because he's a dickhead.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

MarkZ said:


> Little does he know that people don't like him, not because of his opinions, but *because he's a dickhead*.


Yeah, that's what it is. I couldn't put my finger on it, but I think that's it.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

wheelieking71 said:


> oh and i sold the 2.2 because the tiny little SS REF classA 3.0 i was A/Bing it with at the time sounded just as good, barely covered my hand, and costs 1/5 the jing. made perfect sense to me. oh, and bye the way, im about as far from a bandwagon jumper as you will find. just an FYI


You wanted matching amps and money in your pocket....stop bullshitting.


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> I don't pedal....if I want something..I buy it. Not because this forum seems to have a boner over it....because it sounds good to me.


wait just a ****ing minute here. if you havnt bought it yet, how do you know it sounds good to you? your a douche. i would say your just wasting our time. but im getting some good amusement out of you making an ass of yourself. some of these guys are pretty funny. so, carry on.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> You wanted matching amps and money in your pocket....stop bullshitting.



Who cares what he wanted except some stalker like yourself?


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

89grand said:


> Who cares what he wanted except some stalker like yourself?


Then he should just say it....not the other amp sounded better. I have had to repeat this 50 times today. All you cheap bastards do it.


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> You wanted matching amps and money in your pocket....stop bullshitting.


did you see that guys? he read my build thread, and remembered it. but you got it all wrong boner ***. the 2.2 payed for the other 3 matching amps. and i did it because, get this, it didnt sound that good.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Then he should just say it....not the other amp sounded better. I have had to repeat this 50 times today. All you cheap bastards do it.


I should have sold you my Art series amps, and my HiFonics series VII for a huge mark up since you believe in old school ******** (I still have one more A200). I sold them because I didn't need them, and I'd rather have more efficient modern amps that sound exactly the same, but are smaller as well.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

wheelieking71 said:


> did you see that guys? he read my build thread, and remembered it. but you got it all wrong boner ***. the 2.2 payed for the other 3 matching amps. and i did it because, get this, it didnt sound that good.


I didn't read your build thread....I talked with a friend of mine in AZ months back that interacted with you when you had the 2.2HV. 

You are nothing but a follower...."hear that guys"...."hear what I am typing".....Oh...maybe not


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

89grand said:


> I should have sold you my Art series amps, and my HiFonics series VII for a huge mark up since you believe in old school ******** (I still have one more A200). I sold them because I didn't need them, and I'd rather have more efficient modern amps that sound exactly the same, but are smaller as well.


You are absolutely incorrect.....I don't buy for a huge markup.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> I didn't read your build thread....I talked with a friend of mine in AZ months back that interacted with you when you had the 2.2HV.
> 
> You are nothing but a follower...."hear that guys"...."hear what I am typing".....Oh...maybe not



I'd much rather be a follower of people that know what they're talking about, then a lone ranger voodoo believer. BTW, do you still think an IDMax has a sensitivity of 93db, speaking of being a follower and believer of voodoo?:laugh:


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> You are absolutely incorrect.....I don't buy for a huge markup.


Why not, are you also a "cheap bastard" as you put it earlier?


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> You wanted matching amps and money in your pocket....stop bullshitting.


whos bullshitting? i never denied that. it makes perfect sense to me. what exactly are you trying to prove? that i should consult you before i make a decision? because i cant think rationally and handle my affairs on my own? hmmmm. nahh.....again, your a douche.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

89grand said:


> I'd much rather be a follower of people that know what they're talking about, then a lone ranger voodoo believer. BTW, do you still think an IDMax has a sensitivity of 93db, speaking of being a follower and believer of voodoo?:laugh:


That's what the specs state....probably at 2.83/1m. If it were 1w/1m it would be more like 88-89db.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> That's what the specs state....probably at 2.83/1m. If it were 1w/1m it would be more like 88-89db.


So you're only able to read, and fully believe obvious bull **** specs written on a piece of paper? Plus you stated that I was incorrect, and that some subs were exceptions to Hoffman's Iron Law which is impossible.

The sub is 87db, case closed.

Edit, it's 85db, case closed.


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> I didn't read your build thread....I talked with a friend of mine in AZ months back that interacted with you when you had the 2.2HV.
> 
> You are nothing but a follower...."hear that guys"...."hear what I am typing".....Oh...maybe not


ahh, gotcha. i see now. so how come your buddy is dumping all his gear on ebay? man, im surprised your not right there to scoop it all up. seeing as how its all that great old school goodness you love so much. and, umm, your damn right im a follower. i follow the people who know way more about this stuff than me trying to make my listening experience better. but i damn sure dont follow what gear they are using. right off the top of my head i have tried 2 different speakers that i have NEVER seen anybody else use. guess that would make me a leader huh.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

I don't fully believe their specs. One reason I don't use them. I have tested there other subs as well and other specs such as fs has been way off....WAY OFF.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

wheelieking71 said:


> ahh, gotcha. i see now. so how come your buddy is dumping all his gear on ebay? man, im surprised your not right there to scoop it all up. seeing as how its all that great old school goodness you love so much. and, umm, your damn right im a follower. i follow the people who know way more about this stuff than me trying to make my listening experience better. but i damn sure dont follow what gear they are using. right off the top of my head i have tried 2 different speakers that i have NEVER seen anybody else use. guess that would make me a leader huh.


In that case....yes sir.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> I don't fully believe their specs. One reason I don't use them. I have tested there other subs as well and other specs such as fs has been way off....WAY OFF.



I agree, but why would you have recommended them to someone else, and state that I was wrong, when I clearly wasn't, when you don't even trust them yourself?


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

Point me to it?


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Point me to it?


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/dumb-question-forum/86619-very-efficient-10-a.html#post1097614


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Are you jealous? I pulled your card along time ago wheelieking.....you are another one of these band wagon jumpers who has to sell equipment to buy the latest DIY boner. I know a few people you have interacted with out there in AZ. It's a small world.
> 
> Purple 2.2HV......etc.


okay so we have deduced that your "few people" was one individual. who for some reason is liquidating all his gear on ebay. now, i want to see where i ever jumped on a bandwagon. or used a forum boner product. c'mon douche bag, bring it. unfortunately, and predictably, you cant. wrong card ****er.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

roeebud.


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## wheelieking71 (Dec 20, 2006)

89grand said:


> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/dumb-question-forum/86619-very-efficient-10-a.html#post1097614


SEE! like that! he said it. you questioned it. he proved it. thats all everybody is asking you to do.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

The guy knew about Hoffmans law and wanted to defy it...I thought it was the closest he was going to get. You can't satisfy everyone....but I also believe 50% of the people out there aren't as picky as you or I and won't know the difference once they get it installed. I am not saying to lie to people, but give them the best recommendation that will make them happy.


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## tornaido_3927 (Nov 23, 2009)

jimmy2345 said:


> The guy knew about Hoffmans law and wanted to defy it...I thought it was the closest he was going to get. You can't satisfy everyone....but I also believe 50% of the people out there aren't as picky as you or I and won't know the difference once they get it installed. I am not saying to lie to people, but give them the best recommendation that will make them happy.


As in, tell them to get something that you know isn't as good for them as something else, but it won't matter because they won't know any better?


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> The guy knew about Hoffmans law and wanted to defy it...I thought it was the closest he was going to get. You can't satisfy everyone....but I also believe 50% of the people out there aren't as picky as you or I and won't know the difference once they get it installed. I am not saying to lie to people, but give them the best recommendation that will make them happy.


I know the guy knew about it (but obviously didn't understand it), but what point is there in lying to him? I told him straight up, you aren't skirting HIL, that's all there is to it.

If you wanted a single speaker to cover 20-20khz, should I just lie and find some ****bag company that lists some coaxial that claims that response, or tell you it ain't happening?


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

tornaido_3927 said:


> As in, tell them to get something that you know isn't as good for them as something else, but it won't matter because they won't know any better?


There was nothing else to suggest better for what he was asking. He was basically saying....I would like to defy physics...can you help me?


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

89grand said:


> I know the guy knew about it (but obviously didn't understand it), but what point is there in lying to him? I told him straight up, you aren't skirting HIL, that's all there is to it.
> 
> If you wanted a single speaker to cover 20-20khz, should I just lie and find some ****bag company that lists some coaxial that claims that response, or tell you it ain't happening?


He already knew it wasn't happening so I suggested a speaker that met most of his wants.....it would sound decent, go in a small enclosure, but just wouldn't get low like the spec sheet leads you to believe.

Why are you giving me **** over this anyways? I didn't argue with you. I didn't even remember what post you were referring to when you asked me about the IDMAX.....which I still don't know why you brought that speaker up.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> He already knew it wasn't happening so I suggested a speaker that met most of his wants.....it would sound decent, go in a small enclosure, but just wouldn't get low like the spec sheet leads you to believe.
> 
> Why are you giving me **** over this anyways? I didn't argue with you. I didn't even remember what post you were referring to when you asked me about the IDMAX.....which I still don't know why you brought that speaker up.


It was a ****ing IDQ, not an IDMax, not that it matters much since they're both about the same, I already told you I was half buzzed, why are you trying to make this more difficult?

Just before your post in that thread I said "Any 10", with a fairly low Fs, that goes deep in a small sealed box has a real world sensitivity of 83-85db."

Then you said "There are exceptions" and linked to the IDQ, with a ******** spec sheet showing 93db, which is false. That is an attempt to correct me, but it was total and complete fail!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

this is more like it.


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## jimmy2345 (Jul 12, 2010)

Well, then I made a mistake. You clearly see we were in agreement before I even knew what thread you were speaking of. We share the same view of the subs and know the truth. As I stated, I have done some testing as well with a few others.


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## Knobby Digital (Aug 17, 2008)

"Your mouth is your own undoing."


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> Well, then I made a mistake. You clearly see we were in agreement before I even knew what thread you were speaking of. We share the same view of the subs and know the truth. As I stated, I have done some testing as well with a few others.


OK. I don't know why you said "there are exceptions" or why you linked to that subs BS spec sheet, but anyway, if we both agree ID subs aren't that great, so be it.


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## ryan s (Dec 19, 2006)

jimmy2345 said:


> ...and feel ridiculously stupid right afterwards....or sit there and still deny a good class a/b didn't sound leagues better when it's purely obvious..... just as some of the other cheapskate ignorant people on this forum.





MarkZ said:


> You're not going to make many friends if you keep ****ting on their doorsteps like that.


Well, he's gone now...but I don't think he realized on whose doorstep he shat :laugh: Calling out Manville of all people...just pure entertainment.

6 pages overnight, well done chaps


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## Vander (Jun 18, 2010)

I hope that he hurries himself along in the changing of IP's,he is good for hours of entertainment.Could it be possible for a mod to let him stay and just give him a title of whipping boy?


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

jimmy2345

You are officially the "Tool of the Day".


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

kyheng said:


> Being a JL Audio user, past multi channel user and still using the HD monoblock, what I is, power/size ratio are pretty good. Never used a 600/4 yet, but I still prefer the old way, class AB for higher frequencies range drivers while class D for sub...
> 
> Not to discriminates JL Audio amps in any meaning, just that JL Audio is a great amp, but some other brands are better than it but with higher price tag. Newer full range class D do sound better than older full range class D.





Cruzer said:


> Its pretty known JL makes great products, but for the same $ u can do even better, or u can get pretty similar results for far less $.


Examples?


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

I'd really like to know which amplifier manufacturers have products that deliver rated power from 1.5 to 4 ohms at a wide variety of charging voltages for less money than the JL Audio amplifiers.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

quality_sound : How about an Audison LRX6.9 vs A6450? $600 vs $300. Only advantage I can see when comparing this 2 is the balanced differential inputs on JL which I found it is pointless when you got other problems.

ChrisB : Alpine PDX(2-4ohm) almost same price or PG(I think is also 2-4ohm?) more expensive?


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Tried the Alpine PDX-5 but didn't like it and the older PG amplifiers are HUGE.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

kyheng said:


> quality_sound : How about an Audison LRX6.9 vs A6450? $600 vs $300. Only advantage I can see when comparing this 2 is the balanced differential inputs on JL which I found it is pointless when you got other problems.
> 
> ChrisB : Alpine PDX(2-4ohm) almost same price or PG(I think is also 2-4ohm?) more expensive?


Are you saing that the more expensive Audison is better? That goes against what was said. It was said there are better amps available for less money. Did you mix the prices up? if not you just proved my point.

And differential balanced inputs is kind of a big deal IMO.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

^^^You see, I always fall in love with people that always don't even try to spend more time to understand my statements but will try to act like a screen hero or tilt my statements, really.

Or are you trying to say that, under the cyber world, higher means lower in the actual world?


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## new2mobile (Mar 6, 2010)

wow, based on the first post I was really hoping to learn from an engaging debate on the JL vs Audison

any chance this still goes in that direction?


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

new2mobile said:


> wow, based on the first post I was really hoping to learn from an engaging debate on the JL vs Audison
> 
> any chance this still goes in that direction?


It did, I think you missed it though.


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## msmith (Nov 27, 2007)

kyheng said:


> quality_sound : How about an Audison LRX6.9 vs A6450? $600 vs $300. Only advantage I can see when comparing this 2 is the balanced differential inputs on JL which I found it is pointless when you got other problems.


The A6450 is long-discontinued... it was a great amplifier, but it was replaced by the G6600 and that amp has now been replaced by the XD600/6.

Balanced-differential inputs are a pretty important feature. They allow the input stage to handle a wide range of input voltages, from very low to speaker level while retaining excellent noise rejection. All JL Audio amplifiers, except for the J2's have this input stage design.


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

It's funny what you come across when you're not looking. I currently run a PG ZX450v2 and a PG ZPA0.5 for my amps and am looking into getting the LRx5.1k as well. Space is a concern for me and as stated the staggered power on the amp makes it nice.

I found a dealer to order from, so I feel safe getting one. In the research I did for amp shopping I found multiple people say that the sub channel portion of the amp was nasty/weak sounding. They later went on to say that they where running the ch in full pass mode and doing the xover from another source (HU, active xover...) so they didn't feel the need to engage the xover function on the amp but that when they did, it was a hole other story. The sub came alive, sounded clean and had plenty of output. So I ask this, those of you that has the 5.1k, did you have the xover function on the amp engaged? 

On another note, JL has always appealed the same to me as it has the OP. When I got into car audio it was all JL subs and PPI amps. EVERYBODY loved JL. It was JL this and JL that, I didn't want any part of it,so I went w/LANZAR (this was back in '93) and was taking my area by storm. I still feel JL is over price . Don't get me wrong either, they do make great things, but JL isn't for me. The thing that JL made that got my attention was the 8W7 a friend of mine had in his truck. WOW!


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

msmith : yes sir, you are right, that's why I still keeping it until now even I don't use it anymore. It do safe me alot of time whenever I'm doing my troubleshooting, because I no need to say "my amp give me the noise again", thanks to the balance inputs. 
Just that I fell it is lacking something which leads me to get another brand and test it out. Still I want to say that JL amp is still a great amp, don't get me wrong on this. Personal preference is subjective.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

smgreen20 : Alot of people tends to say passive crossovers are useless, but that is a wrong concept. If you have the time, just try this : get yourself a pair of cheap bipolar caps and a pair of MKP/MKT caps that are more expensive. Hook them up on the tweeter and listen the difference. You will found that when using the MKP/MKT caps, the tweeter sounded nicer. This same goes by running active or passive in our setup. because in the passive, different material used will result to different sound.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

kyheng said:


> smgreen20 : Alot of people tends to say passive crossovers are useless, but that is a wrong concept. If you have the time, just try this : get yourself a pair of cheap bipolar caps and a pair of MKP/MKT caps that are more expensive. Hook them up on the tweeter and listen the difference. You will found that when using the MKP/MKT caps, the tweeter sounded nicer. This same goes by running active or passive in our setup. because in the passive, different material used will result to different sound.


And then you have someone else connect the cap for you without telling you which one was connected and they all go back to sounding the same.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

kyheng said:


> ^^^You see, I always fall in love with people that always don't even try to spend more time to understand my statements but will try to act like a screen hero or tilt my statements, really.
> 
> Or are you trying to say that, under the cyber world, higher means lower in the actual world?


You had said that there are better amps than the JLs that were available for less money, correct? Then you compared a $300 JL to a $600 Audison to try and prove that point, also correct? 

I just want an example of an amp that's less expensive than a JL that's better and a reason WHY that amp is better. 

What was so hard to understand about that?


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

smgreen20 said:


> I went w/LANZAR (this was back in '93) and was taking my area by storm. I still feel JL is over price . Don't get me wrong either, they do make great things, but JL isn't for me.


How would you know JL "isn't for you" or "is overpriced" if you've never used it?


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

That's a damned good question. The prices on these things online seem to be very reasonable.


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## danssoslow (Nov 28, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> You had said that there are better amps than the JLs that were available for less money, correct? Then you compared a $300 JL to a $600 Audison to try and prove that point, also correct?
> 
> I just want an example of an amp that's less expensive than a JL that's better and a reason WHY that amp is better.
> 
> What was so hard to understand about that?


If you check post #190, where you originally quoted kyheng, you will see in his quote that he wrote "but some other brands are better than it _*but with higher price tag*_."

Your second quote was by a different person claiming it could be done for less.


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## smgreen20 (Oct 13, 2006)

kyheng said:


> smgreen20 : Alot of people tends to say passive crossovers are useless, but that is a wrong concept. If you have the time, just try this : get yourself a pair of cheap bipolar caps and a pair of MKP/MKT caps that are more expensive. Hook them up on the tweeter and listen the difference. You will found that when using the MKP/MKT caps, the tweeter sounded nicer. This same goes by running active or passive in our setup. because in the passive, different material used will result to different sound.


?????

I said nothing about passive networks. I was merely suggesting that turning on the amps xover function made the sub ch on that particular amp sound better. The incoming signal was crossed over actively prior to entering the amp.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> You had said that there are better amps than the JLs that were available for less money, correct? Then you compared a $300 JL to a $600 Audison to try and prove that point, also correct?
> 
> I just want an example of an amp that's less expensive than a JL that's better and a reason WHY that amp is better.
> 
> What was so hard to understand about that?


Whatever my love, whatever, as long as you feel happy to tilt my statements, I just let you be the winner.... I only said that there are better amps than JL Audio which is more expensive(did I said before there's cheaper amp that sound greater than JL? I can't find where I put that statement), Audison is the example I give because I have the 6 channel amp.
And yeah(this will be the first time I state cheaper amp that sound greater than JL Audio), the cheaper amp I found that greater than A6450 is the mini amp that come with DEH-P01.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

smgreen20 said:


> ?????
> 
> I said nothing about passive networks. I was merely suggesting that turning on the amps xover function made the sub ch on that particular amp sound better. The incoming signal was crossed over actively prior to entering the amp.


Emmm... How to say on this, from my point of view, active means you control everything via your HU before it enters the amp while passive the crossover points is done on the amp or after the amp. Certain amps like Audison, using its onboard crossover might sound better than bypass the onboard crossover.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

kyheng said:


> Whatever my love, whatever, as long as you feel happy to tilt my statements, I just let you be the winner.... I only said that there are better amps than JL Audio which is more expensive(did I said before there's cheaper amp that sound greater than JL? I can't find where I put that statement), Audison is the example I give because I have the 6 channel amp.
> And yeah(this will be the first time I state cheaper amp that sound greater than JL Audio), the cheaper amp I found that greater than A6450 is the mini amp that come with DEH-P01.


What makes the Audison better than the JL?


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## MarkZ (Dec 5, 2005)

kyheng said:


> Emmm... How to say on this, from my point of view, active means you control everything via your HU before it enters the amp while passive the crossover points is done on the amp or after the amp.


Well _that's_ not right.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

bassfromspace said:


> What makes the Audison better than the JL?


The subjective feelings, like warm, clinical...... Most of us like to use this kind of words what.


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## ALL4SQ (Mar 28, 2009)

Just trying to help: 

Taken from here: Audio Glossary

Electronic Crossover - uses active circuitry to send signals to appropriate drivers. More efficient than passive crossovers. 

Passive Crossover - uses inductors (coils) and capacitors to direct proper frequencies to appropriate drivers. These crossover systems can be simple (First Order = 1 component @ -6 dB/octave slope) to complex (Fourth Order = 4 components @ -24 dB/octave slope).

Crossovers on headunits and amps are both Electronic crossovers. Active means electronic.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

danssoslow said:


> If you check post #190, where you originally quoted kyheng, you will see in his quote that he wrote "but some other brands are better than it _*but with higher price tag*_."
> 
> Your second quote was by a different person claiming it could be done for less.





kyheng said:


> Whatever my love, whatever, as long as you feel happy to tilt my statements, I just let you be the winner.... I only said that there are better amps than JL Audio which is more expensive(did I said before there's cheaper amp that sound greater than JL? I can't find where I put that statement), Audison is the example I give because I have the 6 channel amp.
> And yeah(this will be the first time I state cheaper amp that sound greater than JL Audio), the cheaper amp I found that greater than A6450 is the mini amp that come with DEH-P01.


Yep, it looks like I misread your post. You do, however, need to lighten the hell up. It wasn't a grand conspiracy against you to twist your words or any other such nonsense. 

My question to Cruzer still stands though.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

bassfromspace said:


> What makes the Audison better than the JL?


Better yet, how does the Audison measure compared to the JL Audio on Audio Precision test gear?

If they measure similarly, I would be curious as to what individuals hear between the two amplifiers other than knowing they are running one versus the other.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

ALL4SQ, now I got it, thanks...... My bad.

quality_sound, Well, that's the problem when a person's intention is just want to become a screen dumb. Or I will rather use the term "perception bias". Another prove that your brain was your enemy, not me. If danssoslow never stand up and tells you your mistake, I guess you are still continue on picking me up. 

ChrisB, if were to use a machine to test it out objectively, may terms like "transparent " can be used? This is what I get when I compare the small Pioneer amp to JL amp. What not presented by JL amp, the Pioneer amp able to present it.


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## Mr. Randy (Apr 21, 2006)

WOW I have been gone on vacation for a week but didn't expect this many replies...what did I miss??? lol I guess I have to start reading...


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

illusive562 said:


> WOW I have been gone on vacation for a week but didn't expect this many replies...what did I miss??? lol I guess I have to start reading...


You didn't miss anything 

kyheng doesn't know the difference between active and passive.

smgreen20 can't afford the higher priced well engineered stuffs

cliff notes ^^^


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