# factory radio intergration help! LOC vs DSP



## atownmack (Mar 20, 2013)

Recently my girlfriend came to me about upgrading the audio in her 2012 Toyota Highlander, but doesn't wish to change the factory radio due to aesthetics (and I agree!) This is my first time dealing with adding amps to the factory headunit. My question is what is the difference between using a line out converter and a Digital signal processor? Which is better?


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## Jepalan (Jun 27, 2013)

The difference is you always use a LOC in your girlfriends car and you always use a DSP in *your* car. Simple.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

It depends on the system goals. If you are wanting a full blown SQ car with the ability for full active xo, separate eq per sides (possibly even per driver), individual driver level matching and Time Alignment then a DSP will be what you want. If you want a simple system and are just going to amplify your speakers then a LOC will do just fine.


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## atownmack (Mar 20, 2013)

I was thinking of getting a Kicker front row DSP, due to low cost and simplicity. Any thoughts on this unit or a better suggestion?


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

atownmack said:


> I was thinking of getting a Kicker front row DSP, due to low cost and simplicity. Any thoughts on this unit or a better suggestion?


not familiar with that one, you have a link?

I will say, I would rather go with no DSP than a cheap DSP. Cheap ones will make it sound worst than if you just went with a good LOC.


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## Deadpool_25 (Apr 2, 2010)

If she wants a real SQ system, get a DSP. If she just wants to upgrade the audio, get a decent LOC.

On that front, I have an Audio Control LCQ-1 (with remote level control) that I'm about to sell... oke:


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## atownmack (Mar 20, 2013)

minbari said:


> not familiar with that one, you have a link?
> 
> I will say, I would rather go with no DSP than a cheap DSP. Cheap ones will make it sound worst than if you just went with a good LOC.


FrontRow | KICKER


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

atownmack said:


> I was thinking of getting a Kicker front row DSP, due to low cost and simplicity. Any thoughts on this unit or a better suggestion?


I dohttp://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/153103-cache-coe8-line-out-converter.html


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

atownmack said:


> FrontRow | KICKER


for $250, there are alot better than that out there. looks to be very limited in what it can do and having analog dials will make tuning pretty hard to do, as compared to a digital interface where you can specify it exactly.

This is really nothing more than a 3-way crossover with a bass boost circuit, lol. they take analog inputs, make them digital, process it and then back to analog. that is alot of converting for nothing when an all analog xover could do that the same thing.

only thing they added was some kind of T/A. but since you have to tune T/A less than 1mS at a time, I dont see this working very well.


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## atownmack (Mar 20, 2013)

minbari said:


> not familiar with that one, you have a link?
> 
> I will say, I would rather go with no DSP than a cheap DSP. Cheap ones will make it sound worst than if you just went with a good LOC.


Here is a review of it. It cost about the same as getting a headunit

Stereowise Plus: Kicker Front Row Digital Signal Processor Review


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## atownmack (Mar 20, 2013)

minbari said:


> for $250, there are alot better than that out there. looks to be very limited in what it can do and having analog dials will make tuning pretty hard to do, as compared to a digital interface where you can specify it exactly.
> 
> This is really nothing more than a 3-way crossover with a bass boost circuit, lol. they take analog inputs, make them digital, process it and then back to analog. that is alot of converting for nothing when an all analog xover could do that the same thing.
> 
> only thing they added was some kind of T/A. but since you have to tune T/A less than 1mS at a time, I dont see this working very well.


What would you recommend for around the same price range. I'm brand new to using DSP's and am very unfamiliar with them, but would like to go that route as I have heard that they make a huge difference in sound quality, and because I use the car a bunch myself!


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

for that same price range a pair of miniDSP 2x4 would have alot more flexability.

you did mention you need to step down from speaker level though, right? so teh kicker and miniDSP will not do that, so you will still need an LOC, like the audio control LC6i.


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## robert_wrath (Apr 24, 2011)

If cost is the case, pick up an Alpine Imprint (roughly $250.00).


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

robert_wrath said:


> If cost is the case, pick up an Alpine Imprint (roughly $250.00).


PXE-H650?


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

atownmack said:


> Here is a review of it. It cost about the same as getting a headunit
> 
> Stereowise Plus: Kicker Front Row Digital Signal Processor Review


 

That thing only allows you to adjust both right and left speakers together for any feature. Like minbari said it is more like a XO with a couple added features. I am guessing that because it has some sort of TA that they feel it is able to be classified as a DSP lol.

A decent DSP will give you driver specific level adjustments, driver specific xo and phase adjustments, and driver specific time alignment. On top of that most all DSP's give you atleast separate left vs right eq's with the better ones giving you driver specific eq ability.


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## atownmack (Mar 20, 2013)

thanks for all your suggestions, I think im going to go with an Alpine PXE h660, I seen used on craisglist.


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## subnrg (Aug 21, 2013)

The Front Row DOES take high level in, and does all of its processing digitally with very high-end D/A converters. It is not just an analog crossover with a bass boost. It actually does phase shifts for imaging/staging enhancement, digital bass restoration (not just bass boost), and has a killer crossover and subsonic filter section as well. They created a simple "analog" user interface that controls a slew of digital processing that is going on in the background. And I'm not really even a Kicker fan, but this is a cool piece.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

atownmack said:


> Recently my girlfriend came to me about upgrading the audio in her 2012 Toyota Highlander, but doesn't wish to change the factory radio due to aesthetics (and I agree!) This is my first time dealing with adding amps to the factory headunit. My question is what is the difference between using a line out converter and a Digital signal processor? Which is better?


It isn't a case of which is better, they're both good at what they do..
A LOC or line out converter converts a high level signal (speaker) to a low level signal (RCA)..

A DSP or digital signal processor contains hardware/software that allow you to electrically manipulate the signal by adding things such as delay to certain channels, parametric equalization and active crossovers..
Two different devices for two different purposes..

If you use a DSP with high level inputs you don't need a LOC..
If you use an amplifier with high level inputs you don't need a LOC..
If you use a DSP you don't need an amplifier with high level inputs..

You're better off without a LOC so try to avoid using one if possible..

Extra components in the signal path increase the risk of injecting noise into the system and raising the noise floor, keep it simple by using as few components as possible..
Head Unit > DSP > Amplifier > Speakers
or
Head Unit > Amplifier > Speakers

If you choose a 3-way active head unit such as the high-end Clarion CZ702 or Pioneer PRS-80 you don't need a DSP..
I just replaced a very nice Kenwood head unit and MiniDSP with a Clarion CZ702, killed two birds with one stone and no longer need a laptop to program the system, it's all done with the head unit..


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