# Aftermarket Speakers vs Factory



## Customsound79 (Nov 13, 2011)

This sounds like a slam dunk right? Everytime I've put a system in a new car, factory speakers were the first thing to go. I always install amps and I always find myself nit picking after I tune the system.
I just bought a 2007 Ford Five Hundred recently but today I installed all of my other gear first while I'm trying to decide on speakers.

I installed my Sony DSX-S310BTX deck, RE Audio 5000.1 amp on a Polk SR124 sub(running [email protected] sealed), JL 300/2 on the fronts, an Alpine MRV-T320 on the rears, and an Audiocontrol DQS for EQ and signal boost. 

I fired it up, set gain structure, set time alignment, set the HP and LP at 80hZ and started the Alter Bridge Blackbird album. It sounded OK. I hooked up the Audiocontrol remote and started going through the process of flattening the EQ and it just got better and better and holy crap! 

When all was flat, I missed dinner just listening. I went through Nickel Creek, Norah Jones, All That Remains, Skream, Motley Crue, and The Eagles Hell Freezes Over. I was trying hard to find a flaw. After hooking up my RTA and witnessing the smoothest curve I've seen in a long time I found my flaw. It was a slight dip around 250. Easy fix. I was so excited I went and pulled my wife into my car and played her favorite Dave Matthews song "Why I Am" at about 110dB and we were both blown away with how clean and full it was.

Am I saying that aftermarket speakers aren't better than factory speakers? No, but what I am saying is that driving clean power to them has made me question everything I though I knew about the "need" to fork out hundreds of dollars for the next best component set. Time will tell if they can handle it in the long term but for now my system sounds a close to perfect as I could have hoped for.


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## Lymen (Aug 9, 2011)

Nice suprise! Sometimes all it takes is clean power so it appears.

Lymen


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## AudioBob (May 21, 2007)

Did you do any sound deadening yet??? If you have not, i would think it will help a bunch as well. I have had that exact same experience before as well. In a few systems all I did was replace the tweeters after adding amps and subs. 

Several years ago Car Audio magazine did a test on just adding an amplifier and that it was your best bang for your buck improvement. Crutchfield just had a nice write up in their latest catalog on the sonic improvements of each addition of source, amps and speakers. Check out their web-site to see if you can find it there as I think you will find it interesting.


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## Metal Guru (Jun 14, 2011)

Are the front stock speakers in that car dual-cones (whizzers) or are they a combo of midrange/tweeter?

How do they sound at higher levels (particularly the midbass)?


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## Customsound79 (Nov 13, 2011)

AudioBob said:


> Did you do any sound deadening yet??? If you have not, i would think it will help a bunch as well.


I started deadening today but ran out of daylight.


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## Customsound79 (Nov 13, 2011)

Metal Guru said:


> Are the front stock speakers in that car dual-cones (whizzers) or are they a combo of midrange/tweeter?
> 
> How do they sound at higher levels (particularly the midbass)?


I swore the ones up front had tweeters but I pulled the door trim to deaden and it was the old plain jane Ford 5x7

They sound great at high levels. The midbass starts breaking up right at the point that it's just too loud for me to actually enjoy the music. So far so good!


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

Sounds like you're lucky. If you're happy, I wouldn't touch a thing. I ran my rear factory speakers off of a 75w JL amp and they took it for two years until I stopped using them. I had to high pass them at 120hz if I wanted to really crank them but that's to be expected.

We see posts from time to time where people are disappointed with aftermarket speakers sounding worse than factory speakers. I know mine really came alive with an amp added to them. Since tuning is such a huge part of everything and you've got that capability I would just enjoy what you've got. You might screw it up by going aftermarket lol....but seriously. Plus your factory speakers are probably more efficient than most aftermarkets so that's a plus as well. After being in this for a couple years now, efficiency is becoming more and more high up on the priority list.


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

Subscribed.

I wrestle with the same thing. I have a 2001 Saturn L200 with factory 6.5 inch speakers and (I think) 1 inch tweeters up front, and I keep wresting with whether to just amp them or install my Polk DB component set. High passed @ 100 hz and just ran off my Alpine CDA-117, they deliver the SQ no matter how much I think they shouldn't...


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## JungleRecon (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm not incredibly surprised by this. Ford really f'd up when they began to use DB changing head units to account for road noise & other things. I've been in a hundred different Ford vehicles with OEM speakers that sounded terrible, and from what you've just explained, it appears to be at the fault of the H/U. 

It's refreshing for sure. Also, if you don't mind my asking, what part of BFE are you in?


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## Customsound79 (Nov 13, 2011)

JungleRecon said:


> I'm not incredibly surprised by this. Ford really f'd up when they began to use DB changing head units to account for road noise & other things. I've been in a hundred different Ford vehicles with OEM speakers that sounded terrible, and from what you've just explained, it appears to be at the fault of the H/U.
> 
> It's refreshing for sure. Also, if you don't mind my asking, what part of BFE are you in?


To be honest, the factory HU didn't sound too bad in this one. After the last two recent installation nightmares it probably sounded a bit better to me than it should have. Being that I took my vacation this week I bit the bullet and put the equipment it. It was so much easier this time thank goodness although the firewall clutter set me back a few hours.

This really got me thinking. I remember listening to an old Curtis Mathis record player, you know, the kind that is more like a huge entertaiment center. I remeber how good it sounded without the multiple speakers. Also, being a career concert audio engineer, I'm reminded that 90% of the drivers used in high end PA systems use paper cones.

I may be wrong but maybe the mobile audio market has been flooded with a massive urge to reinvent the wheel just to satisfy the desire for a change from the same old thing when possibly the same old thing didn't really need that much improvement. Hmm.....if only this applied to subwoofers.

Hey Junglerecon, I'm in Utica but I work in Jackson and Madison.


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## JungleRecon (Jan 15, 2012)

Customsound79 said:


> To be honest, the factory HU didn't sound too bad in this one. After the last two recent installation nightmares it probably sounded a bit better to me than it should have. Being that I took my vacation this week I bit the bullet and put the equipment it. It was so much easier this time thank goodness although the firewall clutter set me back a few hours.
> 
> This really got me thinking. I remember listening to an old Curtis Mathis record player, you know, the kind that is more like a huge entertaiment center. I remeber how good it sounded without the multiple speakers. Also, being a career concert audio engineer, I'm reminded that 90% of the drivers used in high end PA systems use paper cones.
> 
> ...



You have to think, a LOT of competition audio stuff is either being made out of carbon/aramid fiber or pressed paper cones. And you're absolutely right about the pro-audio equipment. It's all paper cone. 

This takes me back to my first H A system, a pair of old school Jensen 15" floor speakers with 4" & 2" highs, all paper cones... I powered it (for a very short time) on a _salvaged_ McIntosh MA 6100 amp & preamp that a guy down the street was throwing out. As a kid, I saw a lot of potential in this thing, and I was right to. He had all the connections labled, but the pre-amp input/output was backwards. I assume he couldn't get any sound from it and "chunked it" thinking it was outdated and broken. 

Man.... that was the most awesome sounding thing I'd ever heard. It blew my dad's big Pioneer SX & JBL speakers out of the water in both clarity and bass. 

I still have the cabinets and amp... 

Sometimes the simplest things can often be the most rewarding, and/or inspiring. 

Oh, and I'm sorry... about utica & all... :laugh:


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## scion1403 (Feb 22, 2012)

I agree if your ears are happy then nothing else matters. As long as your not trying to convince yourself into the idea then what makes your ears happy us what's important. I'm jealous 15 years in the auto business I have heard just about every upgraded factory system even the nakamichi in a Bugatti and the bang and illusion in the Audi 8 series and none of them even come close to my speakers.. I'm jealous cause your happy and not in the hole for thousands. Good luck


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

I noticed the same thing on a 2005 Ford Five Hundred without premium sound. The factory coaxial speakers seem to sound pretty good running off factory deck. Midrange is pretty clear, bass is surprisingly deep. The highs need a little bump in EQ. The only issue I have with these speakers is that they have coaxially mounted tweeters. I would have preferred to have tweeters mounted high. I assume with a good DSP and amplifier, these factory speakers could sound even better. Good enough for an average listener IMO.

A lot of people still think that speakers is the first thing that needs to be replaced, but I personally would have added a subwoofer system and tried hooking up everything else to a good DSP, perhaps JBL MS-8, using its internal amplifier, and then going from there.


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

Yea, Zakoh, a sub is crucial to be able to optimize factory speakers. They simply can't play lower bass tones with power behind them. Mine are high passed @ 100 hz off the HU. 

FWIW, I'll know something first hand today about amping stock speakers. I'm actually going to be installing stage 1 of 3 of my front stage upgrade today. This will consist of running RCAs and speaker wires from the trunk to the doors, and disconnecting the current HU speaker wires. 

I'll be taking a sneak peak at stage 2 (new amp rack build) by going ahead and hooking up a bridged Boston GTA-704 to the wires without an amp rack (ghetto), and turn the gains way down since they'll be powering my stockers.

Stage 3 (Polk DB components, King Starboard baffles, and door sealing/deadening) may be reduced to just door treatment, depending on how this works.

I'll report back on this thread when i get the speakers playing with my findings.


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

Danometal said:


> Yea, Zakoh, a sub is crucial to be able to optimize factory speakers. They simply can't play lower bass tones with power behind them. Mine are high passed @ 100 hz off the HU.
> 
> FWIW, I'll know something first hand today about amping stock speakers. I'm actually going to be installing stage 1 of 3 of my front stage upgrade today. This will consist of running RCAs and speaker wires from the trunk to the doors, and disconnecting the current HU speaker wires.
> 
> ...


Well, got it done. The stockers are amped. So far so good. The HPF doesn't need to change. I'm still currently trying to figure out where the gains will be in the meantime on the stockers until/if my Polk DBs go in, so they're set very low for tonight. But, first listening impressions exhibit no distortion from all the overhead power on tap. 

That's all for now.


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## david in germany (Oct 7, 2009)

I am fighting with this decision at the moment as well in my 118i BMW. I did add the high end factory tweeters to the car a year or 2 ago and it made a huge difference to the overall sound. The tweeters have a 6db passive in line and are run in parallel to the 4" mids. They sound tight and clear on the deck but I am about the add my amp to the mix (Alpine MRX V60) so they should only be getting 50-75w RMS.. I am having a hard time justifying upgrading them. I do have a set of Mb Quart Premium components that I can drop in as well but the size of the Xovers is a problem with them.


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

Bump.

I'm still running factory front door components in my system. My 4 channel caused some alternator whine when bridged, so I unbridged it and went active with a Cache CEX crossover on the same stock speakers (no whine now). They sound so very good active that I'm afraid to install my Polk DB components and potentially mess up a good thing. I think I may just leave well enough alone for now...


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

Check out the article linked in this thread: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-sq-forum-technical-advanced/127383-what-we-hear.html

It covers a LOT of information, but the part that I think really applies to this thread is where the author talks about the pressures to spend more money to get better sound. His example is someone who has an iPod and he loves the sound with his current headphones, but he's wondering if he needs to upgrade to more expensive headphones and and amplifier. The point of this was you don't always need to go with what everyone else does if you're already happy with the sound. Let's not forget about enjoying our music.


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## david in germany (Oct 7, 2009)

I just installed a set of MB Quart components in mine this weekend. I haven't had a chance to really get any listening in yet but tomorrow I will.

I went with premium tweets and mids but discus x overs because of limited space for them. The discus xovers have a higher frequency cut for the tweets than the premium xovers but since the tweets are 6 ohm it should (if I converted correctly) be just around the proper frequency. 
If I don't hear an improvement the stocks are going back in. 


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


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## david in germany (Oct 7, 2009)

Ok, in my case the aftermarket speakers make a big difference in the midrange. The stock bmw mids have a 6db passive filter installed inside the basket that I did not know about until I removed them. I estimate the xover frequency at about 120hz and my subs are crossed over at 75 or so. My front stage is so much more powerful now. I was able to turn my tweeters down a bit and still have more clarity than before as well. A normal driver would most likely not hear a difference though. 

So +1 for aftermarket.


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## timaishu (Dec 14, 2008)

I remember when I got my altima, coming straight from my taurus full of aftermarket audio. The stock altima sound was actually very good. It wasnt the bose either, just the basic clarion speakers. I thought about just leaving it stock. I added a sub to it and it made it even better. 

I ran with that for awhile before I decided to pull it all out and put new stuff in. I didnt want all my audio gear to go to waste. It ended up sounding better, but not by a huge degree.


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

So, I'm thinking the best thing to do, lest I be driven to insanity from the uncertainty, is to install my Polk DBs and listen. If I don't like, I'll yank them out and sell them. I just hope a maximum of 70 watts RMS is enough to run each mid without distortion, as I'm used to the excellent efficiency of the stockers.


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## The Baron Groog (Mar 15, 2010)

scion1403 said:


> I agree if your ears are happy then nothing else matters. As long as your not trying to convince yourself into the idea then what makes your ears happy us what's important. I'm jealous 15 years in the auto business I have heard just about every upgraded factory system even the nakamichi in a Bugatti and the bang and illusion in the Audi 8 series and none of them even come close to my speakers.. I'm jealous cause your happy and not in the hole for thousands. Good luck


EB110? Nice


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

dan, we need to have a mini get together. mines not tuned yet but im sure whoever comes can tune it enough for u to listen. 

if we can get john from the boro to come he competes and wins, u will surely hear how aftermarket is better or not with his setup


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## Danometal (Nov 16, 2009)

Cruzer said:


> dan, we need to have a mini get together. mines not tuned yet but im sure whoever comes can tune it enough for u to listen.
> 
> if we can get john from the boro to come he competes and wins, u will surely hear how aftermarket is better or not with his setup


I hear that. I should have my system finished by the end of the month. You still really need to hear a JBL P1224 in a big, stupid low tuned box. It's over the top for just a single 12 taking 800 watts. I'm scared about them becoming increasing hard to find, because it stomps any other sub I've ever worked with personally... I've abused mine for over a year, but thankfully it's still hanging on!

FWIW, today I grabbed some speaker wire and quickly hooked up a Polk DB mid in place of my stock mid on the right side and leaned it up against the passenger footwell. I realize the bass is gonna suck not being enclosed, but the overall sensitivity obviously suffers compared to stock. I really hope about 50 - 60 watts will be enough to get it loud enough active once it's properly installed. Maybe I can cross it lower with that kind of power vs. 100+ watts each...


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## jdsoldger (Feb 14, 2012)

My last car, a 97 civic ex coupe, sounded fantastic with just the stock speakers and a sony xplod head unit I picked up at the junk yard. My new Honda Fit has been nothing but a fight to get something decent sounding. The stock headunit had a built in EQ that you couldn't turn off (hyped up the treeble and bass) and the stock speakers were eh sounding 6.5" poly cones running full range. You have no idea how tempting it was to just go to the junk yard, find a late 90's car and pull out the stock paper cones.

I am nearing a solution though, got some 6.5" Focal paper cones on clearance at parts express. They sound great up to 3khz or so since they are rolled off between 4 and 6khz, then a breakup at 8khz gives them a bit of treble. I am going to run them to 3khz and cross them over to a pair of vifa ring radiators. It it sounding very nice so far.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

Danometal said:


> I hear that. I should have my system finished by the end of the month. You still really need to hear a JBL P1224 in a big, stupid low tuned box. It's over the top for just a single 12 taking 800 watts. I'm scared about them becoming increasing hard to find, because it stomps any other sub I've ever worked with personally... I've abused mine for over a year, but thankfully it's still hanging on!
> 
> FWIW, today I grabbed some speaker wire and quickly hooked up a Polk DB mid in place of my stock mid on the right side and leaned it up against the passenger footwell. I realize the bass is gonna suck not being enclosed, but the overall sensitivity obviously suffers compared to stock. I really hope about 50 - 60 watts will be enough to get it loud enough active once it's properly installed. Maybe I can cross it lower with that kind of power vs. 100+ watts each...


dont worry im sure there is similar or better than the jbl

as for the dbs on an amp ive never heard speakers on an amp not be louder than stock. my gain on my tweeters(granted this is active) is so low yet its so loud


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