# More items in the signal chain lessons SQ???



## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

I've always heard people saying they like running all in one decks with built in processing because the more items in the signal chain, the less SQ you will have???


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

ehh it really depends. it doesnt really lessen sq but it can introduce more possibilities of noise and other problems


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

Its not so much that it lessens the sound quality, its that it just adds more places for potential problems like noise floor and all that. You can run all kinds of things in the signal path and if theyre high quality and the tuner/installer is high quality as well, youll still have a great sounding system. So its not that you "shouldnt" use multiple items, just that itll be a little more of a chore getting them all to work properly with each other, but you still have just as much potential great SQ.


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## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

Summed up well by SkizeR and MacLeod above.

In a recording studio, you would be amazed to see how many devices audio passes through between a musician, and that music being put onto a CD. Or in a radio station how many thousands of feet of cable and devices and processors a signal can pass through between the DJ and the broadcast tower.

Another possible reason why all-in-one head units with processing are preferred is because they are often less expensive, easier to adjust from the driver's seat and do not require a laptop nor extra space to mount anything.


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

Jazzi said:


> Another possible reason why all-in-one head units with processing are preferred is because they are often less expensive, easier to adjust from the driver's seat and do not require a laptop nor extra space to mount anything.


This is a big reason. Noise is a selling point for a head unit like the P99 but the biggest one for me was the "tuning on the fly" aspect so to speak. I tune while driving, sitting in the parking lot after work and on a whim at home when I'm bored and have some rare spare time and being able to just walk out to the car with nothing more than my keys is awfully nice.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

MacLeod said:


> This is a big reason. Noise is a selling point for a head unit like the P99 but the biggest one for me was the "tuning on the fly" aspect so to speak. I tune while driving, sitting in the parking lot after work and on a whim at home when I'm bored and have some rare spare time and being able to just walk out to the car with nothing more than my keys is awfully nice.


You must have a pocket RTA?


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

Ultimateherts said:


> You must have a pocket RTA?


What's an RTA? 

Other than occasionally using some filtered pink noise tracks with a Radio Shack SPL meter, I tune by ear. 

Don't get me wrong I'd love to have one but never could afford it so I've just always done it the old fashioned way.


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

Dammit! Stupid Tapatalk. Double post.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

MacLeod said:


> What's an RTA?
> 
> Other than occasionally using some filtered pink noise tracks with a Radio Shack SPL meter, I tune by ear.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I'd love to have one but never could afford it so I've just always done it the old fashioned way.


Tuning by ear is impossible!!!


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

:lol:

OK. Thanks for sharing.


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

MacLeod said:


> :lol:
> 
> OK. Thanks for sharing.


You have $5.49 and an android phone???

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=radonsoft.net.rtapro&hl=en


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

Ultimateherts said:


> You have $5.49 and an android phone???
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=radonsoft.net.rtapro&hl=en


Yep, have it and tried a couple others. Theyre not that accurate, even when calibrated at least not for anything much out of the midrange. I just bought the Dayton Audio iMM-6 mic and it should be here tomorrow so Ill see how it works.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I've got the Dayton myself and the Audio Tools app. Haven't had a chance to use it yet, but I plan to use it for tuning my wife's CDE-147BT. Never really done in tuning with an RTA, so I figured this would be a fun, inexpensive way for me to get my feet wet.


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## GlassWolf (May 8, 2010)

adding devices can decrease your signal to noise ratio, and increase distortion, but if that ends up being audible may be a different matter entirely. Back in the day, Audiocontrol had line drivers to up the line voltages to improve on this issue, and this is partly why head units with 4V pre-outs are so popular. The better your line voltage, the better your SNR is going to typically be. Also, again back in the day, some devices had a reputation for adding noise to a signal path. Now, logic would dictate that the fewer things in a signal path, the less that signal is affected, of course. However, if the items you want to add are of quality, you most likely won't notice any reduction in signal quality. Heck, PPI, Orion, Zapco and others used to go so far as to use a 15VDC signal path between processors and amplifiers with proprietary DIN cables and connectors, to maintain a good clean signal.


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

While gain structure plays a very big part in keeping the noise floor low it still irks me how every car I've heard lately running an external processor with analog signal between it and the headunit has had audible hiss. I like how with my 80prs there's simply no hiss to be heard while sitting in the listening position. Keeping my amp gains as low as possible while still getting the output I want may or may not have something to do with it.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Ultimateherts said:


> I've always heard people saying they like running all in one decks with built in processing because the more items in the signal chain, the less SQ you will have???


Definitely more stuff to worry about. I prefer to keep things simple.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

Ultimateherts said:


> You have $5.49 and an android phone???
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=radonsoft.net.rtapro&hl=en



The software could be the best software in the world, BUT it is trapped in your phone. It LARGELY depends on your device's microphone and how your phone is tuned. My phone came with that stupid beats audio nonsense, I don't trust it for an RTA.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Yeah a hamburger has better FQ (Flavor quality) when there's nothing but bread and meat. No messy lettuce or chopped onions to fall out when you pick up the burger and no mustard or ketchup to squeeze out all over your hands. Nothing to get in the way of the pristine taste of slightly overcooked cow meat. Pure beef, that's where it's at!


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Yeah a hamburger has better FQ (Flavor quality) when there's nothing but bread and meat. No messy lettuce or chopped onions to fall out when you pick up the burger and no mustard or ketchup to squeeze out all over your hands. Nothing to get in the way of the pristine taste of slightly overcooked cow meat. Pure beef, that's where it's at!


lol, so is it better to eat digital cow meat or analog? 


I think there is certainly some credence to this. but how many devices would you need to actually hurt the audio? if you have a HU, DSP, ampfliers. I dont see it as an issue. Even Hu, linedriver, DSP, linedriver, amplfiiers would not hurt anything and that is alot of connections.

how many more connections or devices could you add?


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## Sine Swept (Sep 3, 2010)

Andy, it must be lunch time!


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