# 4 13TW5's or 4 RE SL12's??



## s60rguy

I got an '07 Crew Cab Silverado Classic.

I run all Zapco C2K Amps, so the Designated Sub Amp will be a 6.0, so the 4 12's will see roughly 300wrms each and the 4 13.5's will see just under 300wrms each (because JL has to be different and use 3ohm Coils.)

I like my Music LOUD and to be able to play the Low, Gut Wrenching, Door Flexing Bass. I know this is a damn near impossible thing to achieve with a Flat Sub (or so I think), but it's all I got to work with due to the Limited Mounting Depth. 

Going by Overall Size, Box Requirements, and avail. Power, it looks like to me the RE's would be the better Speaker to go with, and Price, I can get 2 RE's for almost what 1 JL Costs. But I wanna know what you Guys think.

Last Year I went and Demo'd all the Flat Subs that were out at the Time and they all Sounded like they were Blown. They Sounded like absolute ASS. Then I heard 1 13TW5 in an '08 Silverado Crew Cab, under the Rear Seat, facing Up. It Sounded REALLY nice. So I know what that Sub Sounds like.

I don't wanna get the RE's and them Sound like all the OTHER Flat Subs I Heard, BLOWN.

So what do ya'll think?


----------



## quality_sound

Do the math. Assuming both subs will fit and you have enough airspace for either choice, how much air will each sub displace and multiply that by the number of subs.


----------



## azncarjunkie

other people say that JL's are overpriced compared to others. if you're on a budget, i'd say that if you're not sure, then you might want to consider listening to the masses.

always trust your own ears first I suppose


----------



## quality_sound

Are they expensive? Duh. Are they better than ANY other flat sub? Absolutely. Are they better than a lot of conventional subs? Again, absolutely. 

They do take FOREVER to break in but they're a really great sub.


----------



## wjbrauns

Buying the cheaper unheard option just because it is cheaper option is kinda dumb to me....Having to rebuy everything cause you are dissappointed with your outcome costs you twice as much...Still have to buy the other option you wanted to start with...Try and listen to both yourself Don't go buy what some people on here say... Everything in the Car Audio world is very Subjective and application dependant...But word on the street is those TW5's are HARD to beat in underseat enclosures...LOL...


----------



## s60rguy

Yea, but the thing is, I don't have any Local RE Dealers out here by me. So it would just be by Hearing other peoples Opinions on them, or watching them in Vids on YouTube which doesn't really do anything. 

And if they do infact Sound just as good as the JL's or even better and I never know that, I'd be pissed knowing that I coulda saved a couple $100 Dollars. 

The only way to do it would be Buy 1 of each and Model them in the Truck, OR if someone here has Heard both, give me their Honest Opinion.


----------



## [email protected]

the RE's lack on cone area but have twice the xmax of the JL, so I bet it would be a tossup for displacement, I would look into the RE, most re subs dont sound bad, their SL looks like a beast for a flat sub

I dotn doubt that the JL's are nice but way overpriced IMO


----------



## quality_sound

What would you rather have? A sub moving as much as it can to make good bass or one not working as hard? There's a reason most of the old school low Xmax subs sound better than a lot of the new "look how far it moves" subs. Sure they're expensive, but they're very, very good.


----------



## [email protected]

quality_sound said:


> What would you rather have? A sub moving as much as it can to make good bass or one not working as hard? There's a reason most of the old school low Xmax subs sound better than a lot of the new "look how far it moves" subs. Sure they're expensive, but they're very, very good.


we are talking 16mm for the re nothing like 30mm, the jl has like 9mm with about 640cm of cone area and the re has something like 460cm, I dont think 16mm is alot, 9mm is alittle there are midbass that has that xmax and can still retain control, its all about design, now if the re retains control of the cone I dont know since I havent heard or played with one

Like i said I dont doubt that they are good but not worth that much IMO


----------



## quality_sound

16mm doesn't SEEM like a lot but it's all relative. Look at the old school monsters. I don't remember ANY having more than 10mm until the Strokers came out. 

Have you at least HEARD the TW5? If not, then "IMO" doesn't really amount to much does it? Not trying to be an ass but commenting on product you haven't owned or used is kinda silly.


----------



## [email protected]

quality_sound said:


> 16mm doesn't SEEM like a lot but it's all relative. Look at the old school monsters. I don't remember ANY having more than 10mm until the Strokers came out.
> 
> Have you at least HEARD the TW5? If not, then "IMO" doesn't really amount to much does it? Not trying to be an ass but commenting on product you haven't owned or used is kinda silly.


I am commenting on displacement, I never said anything about tonality of the speakers, so please dont give any of that silly crap, Yes I have heard one at my local dealer but thats it, and that isnt relavent to what I was saying about displacement

Your doing the same thing you said "is silly" have you owned or used a RE SL sub????????? How do you know your JL sounds better if you havent heard the RE huh?


----------



## quality_sound

I understand you're talking about displacement. But is a lot of displacement from a sub that doesn't sound good worth anything? I'm not saying that the RE doesn't sound good, I'm just saying it's an incomplete argument at best, that's all. 

Yes, I owned a XXX. It was a nice sub. It was also expensive as hell and impractical in most cars because it's HUGE. 

But my argument wasn't even about which sounded better, only that your argument is flawed.


----------



## [email protected]

quality_sound said:


> I understand you're talking about displacement. But is a lot of displacement from a sub that doesn't sound good worth anything? I'm not saying that the RE doesn't sound good, I'm just saying it's an incomplete argument at best, that's all.
> 
> Yes, I owned a XXX. It was a nice sub. It was also expensive as hell and impractical in most cars because it's HUGE.
> 
> But my argument wasn't even about which sounded better, only that your argument is flawed.


How is it flawed when we are talking about displacement? he doesnt want a sub that sounds blown, does that mean he wants sq? This is in the SPL section and in the OP's original post "LOUD" is there in capitals.

And "SQ" is in the ear of the beholder. I personally think that all JL subs sound bloated and fat, not real transparent and natural, other disagree but I dont care because SQ to me is what sounds good to me not others


----------



## quality_sound

We weren't talking ONLY about displacement but I can see where you're coming from. If he had room for ported the REs win hands down because the TW5s can't be used that way.


----------



## azncarjunkie

hehe, i love when subwoofer talks turn technical. I'm a techie myself but sometimes just need to step back and say to myself "It just matters what it sounds like to me at the end of the day".

Go with what you can hear, or just make the leap based on a couple of people's opinions and hope that you don't have to change later!


----------



## s60rguy

BeatsDownLow said:


> How is it flawed when we are talking about displacement? he doesnt want a sub that sounds blown, does that mean he wants sq? This is in the SPL section and in the OP's original post "LOUD" is there in capitals.
> 
> And "SQ" is in the ear of the beholder. I personally think that all JL subs sound bloated and fat, not real transparent and natural, other disagree but I dont care because SQ to me is what sounds good to me not others


I said I don't want a Sub that Sounds Blown, because EVERY Flat, Shallow, Thin Mount, whatever you wanna call it, Sub I Heard, with the exception of the JL, all Sounded like there were Blown. They had a nasty Buzz goin on whenever the Bass would Hit. 

The JL didn't. When I Heard the 1 TW5 in the Silverado, it was phenomenal. It had an E-Series JL Amp on it, was Facing Up under the Rear Seat. It had the Tightness and Accuracy of a 10 or 12, but could DEF grab the Lows like a 15, and made no Buzz at all, even on a Low 20hz Range Bassline.


----------



## wjbrauns

Well I now have two TW5's under the rear seat of my 08 Silverado Crew Cab with a JL HD 750/1 on them and could not be happier...I need to beef upy charging system it goes below 9 volts now. 
I switched from what most people said were the next best thing the Memphis SClass 12's and the TW5's are better but alot more money too. Don't get me wrong the SClass are nice and if your looking to save some money that would be an option. They handle 500 watts easy I had a PDX 1000.1 on them, they do not sound blown, play the low bass you can feel, and if you put 4 of them in should get plenty loud. Just my .02 cents give them a listen if your looking for a cheaper option easier to find Memphis Dealer than RE!


----------



## wjbrauns

O yea how are you gonna fit 4 of any of the subs you listed in a crew cab truck? I can see MAYBE 3 but how could you get the air space for 4?.. Are you thinking of taking your back seat out?


----------



## s60rguy

wjbrauns said:


> O yea how are you gonna fit 4 of any of the subs you listed in a crew cab truck? I can see MAYBE 3 but how could you get the air space for 4?.. Are you thinking of taking your back seat out?


Behind the Back Seat. My whole Rear Seat Folds Down, instead of like your Truck where only the Bottom Flips up.

I can easily get 2cu/ft behind there, closer to 3 if I 'Glass it.


----------



## quality_sound

3 cubes is still technically too small but my box was too small and they stil sounded great.


----------



## s60rguy

quality_sound said:


> 3 cubes is still technically too small but my box was too small and they stil sounded great.


Yea, I know 3 Cubes is gonna be a lil Tight on the TW5's. The RE's will be easier to build the Box for, since they need alot less Air Space.


----------



## JediMentality

For my personal knowledge, among others, I suggest that you get the RE's and write a review . But, of course, for what would be better for YOU, I can't offer much. It seems that wait until you can find a relevant review on the RE's by someone else or wait until you get the opportunity for a listening demo, carefully evaluate your constraints (physically, electrically, and economically), or go out on a whim.


----------



## quality_sound

s60rguy said:


> Yea, I know 3 Cubes is gonna be a lil Tight on the TW5's. The RE's will be easier to build the Box for, since they need alot less Air Space.



Less than .8cf? For a 12? Pretty impressive. Some old school S12d's would be perfect. Anything over 400 watts and they require a .66cf GROSS enclosure. Up to 400 it's .88 GROSS. That's TINY.


----------



## [email protected]

.5 compact
.74 optimal

Technical Specifications - RE AUDIO


----------



## quality_sound

Ewwww, never been a fan of ANY manufacturers "compact" enclosures.


----------



## [email protected]

quality_sound said:


> Ewwww, never been a fan of ANY manufacturers "compact" enclosures.


me neither I prefer them on the larger scale, smallest I would prob do is right in the middle like .6-.62 stuff to hell with poly


----------



## bass_lover1

BeatsDownLow said:


> we are talking 16mm for the re nothing like 30mm, the jl has like 9mm with about 640cm of cone area and the re has something like 460cm, I dont think 16mm is alot, 9mm is alittle there are midbass that has that xmax and can still retain control, its all about design, now if the re retains control of the cone I dont know since I havent heard or played with one
> 
> Like i said I dont doubt that they are good but not worth that much IMO



You also have to consider the power required to move the cone to that point. Is the RE going to reach xmax on maybe 300 watts each, in a tiny ass sealed box? Probably not. In a low power app, I'd go for cone area over stroke, but that's just me.


----------



## 00poop6x

I have not spent the time to read through the entire thread, but just chiming in on from the thread title.

I've heard both, and you're definitely wasting money on the JL between these two.

They are by far two of the best 'flat' subwoofers on the market and I've heard and installed quite a few (rockford, excelon, kicker, memphis, etc). And then you consider price, it's a no brainer between RE and JL. Think of the SL as the SE series, just less power handling and a lot thinner!

I'll probably add after I get home to read all this mess.


----------



## quality_sound

I wouldn't say you're wasting your money at all. I'd say it might be less value oriented but I still think the JL is a better performer. Is it twice as good to justify double the cost? I think it is, some may not. Strictly on performance, I like the JL. My $.02.


----------



## 00poop6x

quality_sound said:


> I wouldn't say you're wasting your money at all. I'd say it might be less value oriented but I still think the JL is a better performer. Is it twice as good to justify double the cost? I think it is, some may not. Strictly on performance, I like the JL. My $.02.


Have you experienced RE SL's performance by any chance?


----------



## subwoofery

00poop6x said:


> I have not spent the time to read through the entire thread, but just chiming in on from the thread title.
> 
> I've heard both, and you're definitely wasting money on the JL between these two.
> 
> They are by far two of the best 'flat' subwoofers on the market and I've heard and installed quite a few (rockford, excelon, kicker, memphis, etc). And then you consider price, it's a no brainer between RE and JL. Think of the SL as the SE series, just less power handling and a lot thinner!
> 
> I'll probably add after I get home to read all this mess.


Strange... I thought that the Memphis was up there with RE and JL regarding "flat" subs. 
Ohh well, seems like the Memphis only looks good then


----------



## s60rguy

00poop6x said:


> I have not spent the time to read through the entire thread, but just chiming in on from the thread title.
> 
> I've heard both, and you're definitely wasting money on the JL between these two.
> 
> They are by far two of the best 'flat' subwoofers on the market and I've heard and installed quite a few (rockford, excelon, kicker, memphis, etc). And then you consider price, it's a no brainer between RE and JL. Think of the SL as the SE series, just less power handling and a lot thinner!
> 
> I'll probably add after I get home to read all this mess.


So you're saying the RE's Sound VERY Similar to the JL's?


----------



## 00poop6x

subwoofery said:


> Strange... I thought that the Memphis was up there with RE and JL regarding "flat" subs.
> Ohh well, seems like the Memphis only looks good then


Yeah, I'm a Memphis dealer and was not too impressed with their performance, they just don't have 'balls'. I'll tell you what, though. Memphis's cooling design works wonders, that cone surface gets crazy hot, the aluminum ring for heat travel works well.


----------



## 00poop6x

s60rguy said:


> So you're saying the RE's Sound VERY Similar to the JL's?


Actually, I'd like to say the RE's have better bottom end than the JL from what I can hear.

The 13TW5 I heard was in a .8cuft sealed box powered by a JL 500/1. The RE's was a SL12 in a .9cuft sealed box. Could the larger volume be the reason why? 0.1cuft difference could be somewhat corrected for with filling, but I couldn't see the JL giving me that gut low bass like the SL can even with the .1cuft given to it.

The JL looks a lot better <3:blush:


----------



## 00poop6x

s60rguy said:


> ...
> Last Year I went and Demo'd all the Flat Subs that were out at the Time and they all Sounded like they were Blown. They Sounded like absolute ASS. Then I heard 1 13TW5 in an '08 Silverado Crew Cab, under the Rear Seat, facing Up. It Sounded REALLY nice. So I know what that Sub Sounds like.
> 
> I don't wanna get the RE's and them Sound like all the OTHER Flat Subs I Heard, BLOWN.
> 
> So what do ya'll think?


Finally got to read this. Is price a super concern to you? If you like the JL and can afford, get it--since you already like it. Although the RE is better to my ear, it may not to you. Not sure if you like that smooth low bottom-end kind of woofer the SL is over the JL.


----------



## quality_sound

00poop6x said:


> Actually, I'd like to say the RE's have better bottom end than the JL from what I can hear.
> 
> The 13TW5 I heard was in a .8cuft sealed box powered by a JL 500/1. The RE's was a SL12 in a .9cuft sealed box. Could the larger volume be the reason why? 0.1cuft difference could be somewhat corrected for with filling, but I couldn't see the JL giving me that gut low bass like the SL can even with the .1cuft given to it.
> 
> The JL looks a lot better <3:blush:


Could have been the car too or maybe the JLs weren't broken in. I HATED mine for the first couple of weeks but right up until they came out of the car they kept opening up more and more and were absolute monsters but still VERY good sounding. 

Even not being 100% broken in they sounded just like a Mag v4 but less efficient. I REALLY like the TW5s and if they don't sell before the moves come and pick up all my stuff I'll probably put them in my wife's Wrangler whether she wants them or not. :surprised:


----------



## 00poop6x

quality_sound said:


> Could have been the car too or maybe the JLs weren't broken in. I HATED mine for the first couple of weeks but right up until they came out of the car they kept opening up more and more and were absolute monsters but still VERY good sounding.
> 
> Even not being 100% broken in they sounded just like a Mag v4 but less efficient. I REALLY like the TW5s and if they don't sell before the moves come and pick up all my stuff I'll probably put them in my wife's Wrangler whether she wants them or not. :surprised:


Definitely not the car but you mention breaking in. That would make more sense, and they do seem a bit less efficient. The times i've installed them (2 different times) they definitely weren't broken in. The other two times they've been in the box for over a month atleast. They get pretty loud (it better for 13"), but still not releasing those low notes with authority like the SL does.

Honestly, I would choose the JL for my tastes if price was not a concern. I don't listen to anything with much low end. But in this application of low end high output situation, the SL would be my pick, easily.


----------



## quality_sound

I think it's more a matter of the bottom end being cleaner on the JL. Every really clean sub I've heard sounds like it has reduced low end.


----------



## s60rguy

Well, I think I'm gonna have to get one of these SL's now to try it out. Because if you're saying that the Low End is better on the RE's than the JL's, that's something I GOTTA hear, because I was Blown Away with how low the TW5 that I Heard could Play.


----------



## quality_sound

Make sure you pay attention to the midbass output as well. If the midbass is lacking the sub will sound like it had a ton of low bass.


----------



## KMelt

JL if it were me...


----------



## kelrog

s60rguy said:


> Well, I think I'm gonna have to get one of these SL's now to try it out. Because if you're saying that the Low End is better on the RE's than the JL's, that's something I GOTTA hear, because I was Blown Away with how low the TW5 that I Heard could Play.


any updates?


----------



## joeymac

ive got 2 13TW5's in my harley truck under the back seats. i really like them. a little pricey...but IMO they sounded a ton better than the other shallow subs on the market. but my ear is my ear and yours is yours... i havent heard the re's...
only able to give about .8 ft/each but they seem to be still achieve the lower notes well.
wish i could squeeze 2 more somewhere else in the truck....


----------



## wdemetrius1

Sorry for pulling up an old tread, but I'm currently looking at the RE's and I would like to know if anyone else has heard them?


----------



## Oliver

My niece and her hubby blew up 4 of them.
2 in each vehicle [ 12 inchers ]
My sis said they sounded great !


----------



## subwoofery

Am using the baby brother SL10 and it sounds as good as the BM mkIII it replaces only with less "slam". Easy to integrate with my midbasses. 

Kelvin


----------



## wdemetrius1

Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## quality_sound

subwoofery said:


> Am using the baby brother SL10 and it sounds as good as the BM mkIII it replaces only with less "slam". Easy to integrate with my midbasses.
> 
> Kelvin


Then why are they still using the RE instead of the BM?


----------



## subwoofery

quality_sound said:


> Then why are they still using the RE instead of the BM?


The BM couldn't fit under the passenger front seat - therefore I couldn't put the seat all the way back since it was blocked by the enclosure. 

Don't worry, I'll use my 2 x BMs in another project  

Kelvin


----------



## NoelSibs

I know this is an old thread but I wanted to chime in for all those out there still trying to make this decision or a decision similar to this. 

I have an RE SL-12. I like it but it seems a little inaccurate. It is in an enclosure that is half fiberglass and half MDF and has .8cu airspace. I went with it because I read that for the price, it is pretty much a match to the 13TW5. So i figured why pay the price for a 13TW5 if I can get the RE and they sound pretty much the same? Plus the 13 was too big to fit over my spare tire so I went with the RE which fit perfectly...

My$0.2 is that the RE SL is less accurate than the JL. In songs with a lot of beats that come quickly and in different frequencies it seems that it has a little difficulty keeping up. That said, I've had it for 2 years and still haven't changed it. It is a good sub. I'm not ecstatic about it but I am content with the performance of the sub. 

The JL I heard was in a similar sized enclosure and was run with more power. I run the RE on around 400 watts. The JL I heard was run on a monoblock with 500 watts. It sounded really accurate, hit hard but it seemed a bit too harsh. The RE seemed to have a nicer roll off. 

I've heard an SI BM here in the Philippines. It sounds much better than the JL and the RE in my opinion... I'd love to have it but can't seem to get my hands on one here. If anyone was looking, I think that would be the sub to buy. Although I hear that the new Alpine Type R Slim sub is really good as well! Hehehe

So it's basically a toss up... It depends on what you want and what you're looking for but I figure the information I put on here should help others decide on what to pick.

By the way, I know that the RE's have had some problems with burning up. That is supposedly as a result of putting them into enclosures too small for them. So although mounting depth is supposed to be around 4 inches... Try and give em a little more room to breath  That's if you go the route of RE... Hope this helps and hope you end up happy with what you buy...


----------



## kelrog

Yup I ended up with 2 SI BM's, in my spare tire well (half of it actually) in a 1 cf sealed fiberglass box.
Pushing only 300 watts to each, and they are easily the most impressive small subs I've come across. Love them. You might could see if the pre orders for the mkIV's are soon.


----------

