# DLS speakers made in TAIWAN whats up with that?



## nitrofish72 (Jul 21, 2009)

I have never owned a set but heard alot about them. I thought these were a high end brand like Dynaudio,Morel Focal. If they are so great why are they made in TAIWAN? Im not knocking them just trying to figure this out. I dont know if you can see the pic but the bottom of the box says made in TAIWAN. This set is 2009 DLS NORDICA.:laugh:


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## bbaccord (Mar 7, 2007)

Simple. Cost. Keep in mind that being made in a country with cheap labor does not always lead to an inferior product. That can be mitigated by good design and sound quality control. I have seen that in some cases, one can produce goods overseas and simultaneously implement a superior quality control program (using advanced machines and inspection methods) and still maintain lower costs than manufacturing domestically.

It really depends on the quality commitment of the manufacturer. It kinda sucks that all this stuff gets outsourced internationally, but for a company to stay competitive amongst it's rivals who are doing the same, it's either hop on the bandwagon or face being driven out of buisness.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I think pretty much everything DLS sells is made in China or Korea.


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

great stuff regardless!


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## nitrofish72 (Jul 21, 2009)

Yes thats pretty sad. Looks like this is happening everywhere. The good old USA companies have done the same also. I sure do miss the old Precision Power and Ads. I guess this is 2009 and things just arent the same. I think im just getting old maybe.


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

Why does matter where it is made ...it still sounds the same. I'm not sure what you are expecting, but the best products are RARELY made in the USA.

>^..^<


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## DoingItTheHardWay (Aug 31, 2009)

nitrofish72 said:


> Yes thats pretty sad. Looks like this is happening everywhere. The good old USA companies have done the same also. I sure do miss the old Precision Power and Ads. I guess this is 2009 and things just arent the same. I think im just getting old maybe.


Or it could just be that you are narrowminded? :disappointed:

I can't even get people in the USA today to get a fast food order right, why would you think the USA would deliver a superior product?

American cars are a prime example ...


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## bsvrs (May 4, 2009)

DoingItTheHardWay said:


> Or it could just be that you are narrowminded? :disappointed:
> 
> I can't even get people in the USA today to get a fast food order right, why would you think the USA would deliver a superior product?
> 
> American cars are a prime example ...


Umm.. Pull your head out of the sand. Still thinking American vehicles are inferior when they have been EQUAL in quality to the Japanese for the last couple years. Yeah, and he's the narrow-minded one


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## DoingItTheHardWay (Aug 31, 2009)

bsvrs said:


> Umm.. Pull your head out of the sand. Still thinking American vehicles are inferior when they have been EQUAL in quality to the Japanese for the last couple years. Yeah, and he's the narrow-minded one


Quit kidding yourself, there's not enough data to even begin to substantiate that claim ...

American cars will NEVER be as reliable as Japenese cars. Your bias as an American doesn't change fact ...

BTW, here is a recent report, and I can post many more:

According to a recent annual survey for 2009, conducted by – Consumer Reports for Car Reliability in America, Japanese Vehicles were found to be the most reliable. American consumers favor Japanese brands like Honda and Toyota for reliable vehicles. This substantiates the first class engineering of Japanese Automakers who create world class automobiles.

In the Consumer Reports Survey – on the basis of reliability and dependability – Japanese cars have comfortably outperformed American models. Out of 48 models which topped the reliability scores, around 36 were from Asia and 33 models were from Japan alone. Japanese models which topped the list in this vehicle reliability survey are Toyota with 18, Honda with 8, Nissan with 4 and Subaru with 3 models.

The only American automaker which made to the top in the reliability survey is Ford. Many of the Ford models such as mid sized Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan are consistently near the top of their respective classes.

On the whole, Japanese automobiles are consistently performing well in the reliability survey. All the Japanese brands such as Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Honda and Acuras were ranked average or above.

Toyota, with its Scion and Lexus brands was the winner with 18 models. The only vehicle that failed in the reliability survey was the Lexus GS AWD. Toyota’s model Scion which is youth-oriented brand occupied first position for the second year in a row.


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## mikey7182 (Jan 16, 2008)

bsvrs said:


> Umm.. Pull your head out of the sand. Still thinking American vehicles are inferior when they have been EQUAL in quality to the Japanese for the last couple years. Yeah, and he's the narrow-minded one


I'm not sure who claims they're equal (unless you allow magazine recommendations to trump personal experience), but after driving several domestic cars for the past 5-6 years and having them all take a dump on me, and buying a 5 year old VW Passat last month, I will not be returning to American cars. My dad drives a 2006 Buick Lucerne CXS. He bought it brand new- it was the top-of-the-line offering from Buick for $42k. Northstar V8, heated and air-conditioned seats, the whole 9 yards. I climb in it, and panels are loose/falling off, the doors rattle when they close, the materials feel cheap, and it has been in for repairs several times. I climb in my Passat that's a year older, and there is a fit and finish that his $40k Buick doesn't come close to touching. In fact, I went and test drove a 2007 CXS when I was shopping for cars, and it was in worse shape than my dad's car. The car I replaced was a 2002 Chevy Malibu. It had 78k miles on it and blew a head gasket. EVERYTHING in that car was either loose, rattling, or broken. My sister has a 2000 Malibu that also blew a head gasket at 100k miles. The Ford F250 I drove in high school lost its rear main seal on the freeway at 85k miles. The Chevy Silverado I had threw a rod at 120k. On the other hand, a friend has a 2000 Honda Accord that has 168k miles on it, and the only thing it has ever had replaced is the water pump. He claims he went 14k miles once without an oil change. I'm sure there are stories like this all over from both sides, but in my personal experience, Japanese and German cars are more reliable, more efficient, and have a much more well-thought out fit and finish than domestic cars. Some may disagree, but I don't think to claim one side over the other is a "head-in-the-sand" approach, as long as it is backed by personal experience.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Chinese food in New York and LA is pretty good.


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## bsvrs (May 4, 2009)

mikey, I can understand your point. But I'm talking current US vehicles.. excluding Chrysler :laugh:. 2008-2009-2010. Yes American cars were not as reliable in the past, but today there isn't much of a difference, _in my opinion_.

I guess it's a largely personal experience thing, my family has owned about 12 ford trucks throughout the last two decades and I can tell you none of them have had a single major problem. That being said, I guess you can figure out what kind of vehicle I drive


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## DoingItTheHardWay (Aug 31, 2009)

2003 Infiniti G35 sedan, 109000 miles ...

Had to replace the passenger heated seat switch, and the light bulb in the clock ...

That's it ...


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## freemind (Sep 11, 2008)

bbaccord said:


> Simple. Cost. Keep in mind that being made in a country with cheap labor does not always lead to an inferior product. That can be mitigated by good design and sound quality control. I have seen that in some cases, one can produce goods overseas and simultaneously implement a superior quality control program (using advanced machines and inspection methods) and still maintain lower costs than manufacturing domestically.
> 
> It really depends on the quality commitment of the manufacturer. It kinda sucks that all this stuff gets outsourced internationally, but for a company to stay competitive amongst it's rivals who are doing the same, it's either hop on the bandwagon or face being driven out of buisness.


You are wrong about cost. It is about insane profit expectations. The rest of your statement in paragraph 1 is spot on.

One day it will be very cost effective to manufacture things domestically because the cost of shipping will be too high. The insane trade policies of the last 30 yrs have screwed us royally.


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

bsvrs ...you do have to get your head out of your ass. There are very few products made in the USA that are not made BETTER AND CHEAPER elsewhere. Being patriotic is great ...it still doesn't mean we make products that are worth a crap.

>^..^<


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## Donitsi (Jan 24, 2007)

I maybe am getting my head shot off but as for american cars, they are built now in the same way as in 80's. Big, fuel consuming, cheap ass plastic interiors, styling hasn't really changed that much. That's the problem with US car industry. 

As for the made in Taiwan... Do they even make speakers, amps anywhere else than in Asia? I have no issues with that. It just the nature of the time, cheap costs, more profit. That's in everything. Price and origin are no measures of quality. You can make crap in western countries as in Asia. China lacks quality control, they do seldom make any good stuff than cheap imitations.


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

back on topic please!


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## bafukie (Nov 23, 2007)

whats wrong with taiwan... fyi they made some good speakers eg... usher drivers... yeah...


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## 00poop6x (Jan 20, 2007)

If DLS makes their stuff as good as the Dim Sum over there, this would be an improvement.

Not all things made here are that good, like the Dim Sum.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Donitsi said:


> I maybe am getting my head shot off but as for american cars, they are built now in the same way as in 80's. Big, fuel consuming, cheap ass plastic interiors, styling hasn't really changed that much. That's the problem with US car industry.
> 
> As for the made in Taiwan... Do they even make speakers, amps anywhere else than in Asia? I have no issues with that. It just the nature of the time, cheap costs, more profit. That's in everything. Price and origin are no measures of quality. You can make crap in western countries as in Asia. China lacks quality control, they do seldom make any good stuff than cheap imitations.


maybe the real objective in the building of cars in the US isn't to build the best car for the money. maybe it's to build the cheapest car that people will pay too much for so the rest of the money can be spent on making sure people have jobs and pensions.


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## DaPhenom07 (Dec 12, 2009)

i agree with bbaccord. the cost is a main factor.


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> maybe the real objective in the building of cars in the US isn't to build the best car for the money. maybe it's to build the cheapest car that people will pay too much for so the rest of the money can be spent on making sure people have jobs and pensions.


...sounds reasonable to me. 

>^..^<


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## Vega-LE (Feb 22, 2009)

I have nothing against buying from China, or any other country for that matter. But when their stuff starts poisoning us , like our children, pets and even toxic drywall, that 's the last straw. Their stuff more than sucks (breaks).... But, business is all about the profit. They make stuff for cheap, in comparison. 

Yes, we have made inferior automobiles compared to Japan. Japan though is not China. I will only buy Japanese automobiles, cause they get the best gas mileage, and have a long... history of quality and reliability. If you have a 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, and a 22mm wrench and socket set, you can fix any... Toyota. The Japanese kill us when it comes to automobiles. 

Ok so lets say China makes some quality electronics. But, do you want to support slave labor?... I want my American dollar supporting my country and standing for something good and not supporting piss-ass companies with slaves.

I buy Chinese made stuff all the time though. They make so much of what we have here, so I sometimes have little to no choice.


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

I tend to believe that if we compare a US made amp to a Chinese made one but both sells for $400 - then the Chinese one "should" have better components. 
Still comparing the Chinese made amp to the US made one both with the same components - if the Chinese made amp sells for $400 then the US made one would sell for $700. 

All IMHO of course  
Kelvin 

PS: however, I'd rather buy something Korean than Chinese (and I have chinese origin myself) due to the quality control mentioned earlier...


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

nitrofish72 said:


> I have never owned a set but heard alot about them. I thought these were a high end brand like Dynaudio,Morel Focal. If they are so great why are they made in TAIWAN? Im not knocking them just trying to figure this out. I dont know if you can see the pic but the bottom of the box says made in TAIWAN. This set is 2009 DLS NORDICA.:laugh:
> 
> 
> View attachment 13913


Seems like a lot of things are designed ny someone else and then made by either machines or humans ,...but somewhere different than where they were designed.

Quality Control is of utmost importance , no matter where something is built, assembled, made, etc..,


There needs to be money spent on someone to determine that said item is within specs. [ The designer ].

Once the dollar becomes more important than the product is where the trouble begins [ Big name sports athlete on some questionable product, etc.., ]


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Vega-LE said:


> Ok so lets say China makes some quality electronics. But, do you want to support slave labor?... I want my American dollar supporting my country and standing for something good and not supporting piss-ass companies with slaves.


Dude, you need to get out more. Ever been to Taiwan or China?


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## brandonu05 (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm with Andy, im not a big fan of out sourcing but slave labor?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

The point people are missing is that this is DLS. DLS has a much bigger reputation in Europe than the US. DLS can command top prices and they should be made in Sweden. I can see cheap brands outsourcing, but damnit, the top brands should keep their manufacturing at home. If I want to buy something made in Taiwan, I'll buy Usher and not DLS.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Soon it will all be made where the labor force is the cheapest.


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## AudioBob (May 21, 2007)

Many of the "Foreign Cars" are manufactured right her in the USA. Toyota, Honda, BMW to name a few have major manufacturing facilities in the US. Consistently well built, quality cars roll out of those factories on a daily basis.

GM, Chrysler and Ford (to a lesser degree in recent years), refuse to build quality cars because they are typical American dinosaur companies that have old school upper management, refuse to listen to their customers and have let the labor unions control their destiny.

I do agree that the foreign owned manufacturers seem to have their act together in comparison to US owned manufactureres. I have a hard time purchasing a domestic owned brand outside of Ford at this point in time.


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## bafukie (Nov 23, 2007)

anyone heard of quality control?


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## kapone (Sep 22, 2009)

a$$hole said:


> Soon it will all be made where the labor force is the cheapest.


In about 10-15 years, it'll be all "Made in Mexico"...


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## 12vTools (Jan 15, 2009)

Digital Designs is made in the US

=)
ask pioneer Japan about that Alan dante and the Z18 lol


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## jpswanberg (Jan 14, 2009)

There are good products still made in the US. My home stereo is from Manley Labs (purist preamp and retro 100 monoblocks; logo: "proudly made in Chino not China") and Magnepan (MMG's). I am willing to pay more for a quality product, no matter where it is made. I find the dichotomy here interesting: it seems as if half the posters want filet at hamburger prices, and the other half willing to spend top dollar and import what they want from halfway across the world. To each his/her own.


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## clbolt (Jan 9, 2008)

I had an e-conversation with someone at DLS a couple of years ago, when I bought my Reference R4 comp set. They were an older version, with aluminum-cone mids, and they were made somewhere in Asia. Anyway, I emailed DLS and asked if they were genuine, and after reviewing the pics I sent, I was told they were the real deal. I asked why they were made in Asia, and I was told that DLS has never built their own speakers, that they're all sourced from elsewhere. I was also told that, at least at that time, the amps were built (I assume assembled) in-house in Sweden.

I didn't care where they came from, those were the best sounding 4" comps I'd ever owned, until the tinsel lead separated from the voice coil on one of the mids. Now I know why they changed the design.


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## Donitsi (Jan 24, 2007)

Speakers were designed to be sounding excellent but still be affordable. Yes, you could probably make the speakers and amps in Sweden too, but for what price? Has the price and origin something to do with the sound? Would they be better costing 4000$ a set? 

I rather buy well designed and researched quality products than pay more just for it has been built buy western hands that has no meaning for the product it self.


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## bbaccord (Mar 7, 2007)

At then end of the day, I think solid design is more important. If you can build reliability into the design itself, then things are less likely to go wrong. Case in point, I owned a set of older German designed and manufactured 6.5" midbasses (Phase Audio Studio Drivers) which sounded excellent. However, they had a fatal flaw in how they attached the tinsel leads to the cone (rigidly fixed to the back of the cone until it jumped off to the terminal). 

After a few years of use crossed high (~100Hz), the tinsel lead on one snapped due to fatigue right at the point where it met the cone. The other lead was on it's way to snapping as well. Manufacturing location would have had no effect on this, as it was a poor design to begin with.

I do believe that all things equal, you can get a better quality piece made in Europe, USA or Japan. However, manufacturing at a cheaper location allows companies to make decent "throw away" products for mainstream consumers that you would never be able to match at that pricepoint domestically.


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## mattyjman (Aug 6, 2009)

i'll just add my two cents... the argument of foreign vs. domestic encompasses two different issues....

1. what the labor force is... domestic or foreign? supporting the working people of a country, whether ours or someone elses is directly related to where the products are made ... 

but...

2. where something is manufactured has no consequence on the end product, given the same manufacturing environment. going to china, labor is cheap. hence saving money on production. but if the design is flawless, the manufacturing is flawless, then the product will be the same regardless of where it was made. 

the problem is this....

american automakers are behind in engineering their cars to compete with the foreign engineering. This has nothing to do with where the autos are produced, and everything to do with the design. 

DLS manufactures product in Taiwan...? that doesn't mean that people Taiwan in also run, engineer, and produce the product. I bet the speakers are still designed in the homeland of DLS. BUT what this does mean, is that you get a product that may be cheaper in price, or you avoid a price increase by cheaper labor... (or the company profit margin increases because production costs fall and they increase the price)

my .02


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

i love my dls amps. I dont care where they came from


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## lucas569 (Apr 17, 2007)

im sooooo surprised bing hasnt chimed in here


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## WAwatchnut (Sep 5, 2009)

I hope everyone also realizes there's a big difference between Taiwan and China? Taiwan's manufacturing capabilities are (in general) way ahead of China. It's a much more industrialized society, and their manufacturing targets much higher ticket (and higher precision) items. Even Taiwan has outsourced their cheaper manufacturing to other countries (like China).


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## fastlane (Apr 6, 2009)

DoingItTheHardWay said:


> Quit kidding yourself, there's not enough data to even begin to substantiate that claim ...
> 
> American cars will NEVER be as reliable as Japenese cars. Your bias as an American doesn't change fact ...
> 
> ...


Yup, the current Toyota debacle is just some concoction the domestic mfg's cooked up.  



mikey7182 said:


> I'm not sure who claims they're equal (unless you allow magazine recommendations to trump personal experience), but after driving several domestic cars for the past 5-6 years and having them all take a dump on me, and buying a 5 year old VW Passat last month, I will not be returning to American cars. My dad drives a 2006 Buick Lucerne CXS. He bought it brand new- it was the top-of-the-line offering from Buick for $42k. Northstar V8, heated and air-conditioned seats, the whole 9 yards. I climb in it, and panels are loose/falling off, the doors rattle when they close, the materials feel cheap, and it has been in for repairs several times. I climb in my Passat that's a year older, and there is a fit and finish that his $40k Buick doesn't come close to touching. In fact, I went and test drove a 2007 CXS when I was shopping for cars, and it was in worse shape than my dad's car. The car I replaced was a 2002 Chevy Malibu. It had 78k miles on it and blew a head gasket. EVERYTHING in that car was either loose, rattling, or broken. My sister has a 2000 Malibu that also blew a head gasket at 100k miles. The Ford F250 I drove in high school lost its rear main seal on the freeway at 85k miles. The Chevy Silverado I had threw a rod at 120k. On the other hand, a friend has a 2000 Honda Accord that has 168k miles on it, and the only thing it has ever had replaced is the water pump. He claims he went 14k miles once without an oil change. I'm sure there are stories like this all over from both sides, but in my personal experience, Japanese and German cars are more reliable, more efficient, and have a much more well-thought out fit and finish than domestic cars. Some may disagree, but I don't think to claim one side over the other is a "head-in-the-sand" approach, as long as it is backed by personal experience.


Yup, that's why Import car dealers don't have any service departments other than a lube rack.  Why don't you ask the Audi tech's what they drive. I guarantee you it's not an Audi.


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