# Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER GROUP BUY



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Hello gents.

My name is Mark Kravchenko. I work as a loudspeaker and loudspeaker driver designer. I've been in and around this business for over 25 years. And I have learned a few things over that length of time.

I work for some OEM's that require exceedingly high driver quality. The kind that you pay serious coin for.

We are talking SEAS and Scanspeak type quality.

I'm the chief cook and bottle washer. There is no marketing department. I'm presenting driver design in ways few people have ever seen. The quality is world class. And these drivers will be available very soon. A limited number of them will be available for testing by a few qualified people. 

I have been working away on some projects that are well documented as premium builds. I work with a build house that understands quality. It is run by and owned by an American. We speak the same language. Loudspeaker. And we are equally zealots in terms of keeping the quality high and extremely consistent. Drivers of this caliber are rarely if ever offered to the DIY market. Grab them while you can.

This thread will showcase a no holds barred 6.5 inch Neo Dual gap motor.

Yes it is designed under license as an XBL motor.

Very long throw and extremely high build quality.

Some pics are below.

Partial assembly of the driver. Notice some points. Dual voice coils. Can be used a number of ways, both to great effect in automotive and home audio. 



Cast basket, 2 inch coil on an aluminum former. 




A side view of the motor. The magnet is not shown. The top plate is indeed a thick beast. 24mm thick. Yes it has an amazingly high X-max for a 6.5. Because it is an underhung design, there is more than 12 mm of linear excursion available. Our spider and surround allow up to 24mm one way.



A little different view.



Yes consider yourself surrounded. A nice long lasting rubber surround designed for a linear travel of 24 mm in one direction. 



A view of the T yoke.

It is custom turned out of one piece of certified 1008 Sumitomo ultra low carbon steel. Best magnetic performance for the money. And a one piece assembly provides the best launching platform for a truly linear motor.



Yes there is some serious bump out on the backplate. Remember the performance comments? We aim to please.



This is a view of the dual coil assembly.

I am getting questions on power handling.

A coil this size with the glues I have specified can handle a clean 150 watts. Continuous. 

However the driver will not. It will play loud and proud. And it will do so for a very long time as long as you do not cook it or rip it apart with to high a power input.

This is a performance driver. And you have to treat it as such. I have custom coil and custom spider designs in this to allow such a large coil and high excursion levels. But as with any mechanical system there are limits as to what it is capable of. 

So if you launch it across your car you are on your own.

If you let out the smoke you are on your own.

This is a driver for people that know what they are doing. It is capable of very high performance levels. And that means that it is engineered to the hairy edge of it's design constraints. I am making full use of the available excursion in this size of basket. It is possible to smoke or launch any driver you may choose to use in your car or your home if you miss apply power or mount it in an incorrect enclosure.

What I can guarantee is that my product will meet specifications because each and every one of them is tested before it leaves the factory. This is why I work with this company. They are that good at what they do.

All components are tested in every conceivable form. From mass of the moving parts to sizes of the steel and magnet all the physical components are verified against a reference sample set. During the build process they run through three fail safe electrical tests. Every motor is verified for field strength at four points on the clock. Every unit is rub and buzzed tested. And every unit must pass a frequency response test that is plus 1.5db minus 1.5 db from a golden standard approved by me. The frequency response testing and other methods are documented in my tweeter group buy.
. 

If you want a pair in the GroupBuy here is how it happens:

PM me and I will send you a Paypal Invoice.

The cost of these is $180 per driver shipped to North America. For Europe the shipped price is $205.


I will invoice at full price. You make payment you are in.

Be sure that your address is current. I will be maintaining a group buy list on this thread. Make sure you are on the list.

I will keep this group buy open from September 5th until October 31. First articles are waiting for magnets and I am in China as of August 16th to September 18th. I am here to supervise the pre-production run and sort out any design issues.

A full Production run takes 45 days from the point I book a driver production run. 

After the group buy these drivers will be $210 shipped in North America and $235 shipped to Europe.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Mark between you and Nick at SI, ill never send my kids to college!!!


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Yeah I won't have any savings left after tweet and mids for mine and my wife's builds. Those look fantastic Mark, I can't remember if you mentioned a mounting depth on these or not when we were emailing back and forth. Do you have a rough idea how deep they will be?


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



foreman said:


> Mark between you and Nick at SI, ill never send my kids to college!!!


I'm extremely small potatoes in comparison to S.I. Nick does great work.

I'm seriously using this to fulfill orders for small OEM's. They are filler for run minimums.

Nick is a whole tier up in the game.

My only luxury is I don't have to sacrifice anything that I don't want to.

And I do hate sacrificing just about everything when it comes to a quality job. I blame my Dad and my grandfather. Ukrainian and German. One way to do things. The right way!


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



etroze said:


> Yeah I won't have any savings left after tweet and mids for mine and my wife's builds. Those look fantastic Mark, I can't remember if you mentioned a mounting depth on these or not when we were emailing back and forth. Do you have a rough idea how deep they will be?


Time to be depressed.

They are decently deep. I'll measure exactly tomorrow. 

The motor is 42mm deep. But the basket is deep as well.

The basket is 54mm deep from the front. The flange thickness is 6mm. So a little math and we get 90mm deep. 3 9/16 inches deep.

I have a shallow design in the wings but may offer it to an OEM first.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Well actually I would probably pick these up and another pair of your tweeters and start my home stereo building adventures. I wonder how well these would play in an enviroment like a house or garage without a sub.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



etroze said:


> Well actually I would probably pick these up and another pair of your tweeters and start my home stereo building adventures. I wonder how well these would play in an enviroment like a house or garage without a sub.


Four of these and two tweeters would knock your socks off.

And you can rear mount the tweeters on a baffle. Just need a thumbnail profile router bit.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Yep sounds like a start of new builds to me lol and my wife just got me a new router bit set that I think has a thumbnail profile bit in it.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

I will be posting designs soon enough. Drivers without supporting documentation aren't worth a whole lot.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Sorry getting over excited about everyone's new drivers coming out.


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

would be interested in some specs. are these designed as a sub or a midbass?


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## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Wow. Very excited about these.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

More XBL^2 goodness. In to see how this one develops.


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## HiloDB1 (Feb 25, 2011)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Mmmm copper...


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Anything on the drawing board in an 8''?


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## Kevmoso (Jun 4, 2013)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



HiloDB1 said:


> Mmmm copper...


^^^this

Curious: With a 24mm capable surround what sd does this leave us with?


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



minbari said:


> would be interested in some specs. are these designed as a sub or a midbass?


Targets are:

Sd 122cm^2
X max 14mm
one watt 87.7db 2.83 volts 89db
Fs 60
Qms 2.41
Qes 0.395
Qts 0.339
Vas 7.25 litres
Re 5.65 ohms
Le 0.11 mH


I can and will massage the Vas and the Fs by either softening up the suspension or adding mass to the cone.

Exact numbers will be posted when I am happy.

I will set up a purchase offer for four drivers to people in the U.S. that will actually use them and post about them. One is already promised so that leaves three. 

The selling price for these babies will be $180 in a group buy and $200 afterwards. These are shipped prices. The initial four will cost more as I will have to fly them over. Approximately $50 per driver to get them across the pond. ( Pacific is a big pond )


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## adriancp (Feb 12, 2012)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Subscribe


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

180 a piece or per pair?


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## JoshHefnerX (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

interesting, would like to see some 8's.


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Nice looking parts. I love the picture of the ass end...I mean back of the tyoke. 

Looks like a beast. Nice big 2" diameter coil, copper shorting ring, XBL^2 motor. I like it.


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## Beckerson1 (Jul 3, 2012)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Hmm keeping an eye on this as these could be a KILLER mid bass driver. If the price is right I would be interested in trying these in place of the Anarchy's.


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## Flinchy (Feb 29, 2012)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

sad @ depth

grumblegrumblestupidbmwgrumble


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



Beckerson1 said:


> Hmm keeping an eye on this as these could be a KILLER mid bass driver. If the price is right I would be interested in trying these in place of the Anarchy's.


He already posted the price five posts up from your post.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



SkizeR said:


> 180 a piece or per pair?



If that was a pair I would be buying from you!

No that is per piece. These are super premium drivers. There is a really good reason you do not get to see this level of detail from other manufacturers.

It aint pretty in many factories, and nor are their methods of production. Most will not allow pictures or video.

This factory is a very welcome change to that. The staff is great. They work hard, get regular breaks and perform very well.

I just finished QC on a run of tweeters. Very consistent. The ones that failed are getting a recone and will be QC'd again. And I'm here to watch the entire process.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



Flinchy said:


> sad @ depth
> 
> grumblegrumblestupidbmwgrumble


Seriously I have a shallow design. It required a custom basket. I may make up a few when I get home and try it out. To produce it I have to pay for tooling. It's seven thousand dollars to tool up and do a hundred piece run.

So right off the bat the first run costs me $70 a piece.

Might do it. But there has to be serious buy in on a group buy before I stick my neck out that far.

Cost for that puppy in the same format as this one would push $230 to $250

It would need a concave dome cone. And the motor is already pretty shallow.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



GLN305 said:


> Anything on the drawing board in an 8''?


Look on my phototbucket. there is indeed an 8 at exactly the same stage. Just waiting for the magnets.

It uses aluminum for the inductance shorting rings. Just a little different from copper. Like two different fine wines. Copper has something to offer and aluminum has something to offer. It depends on the drivers designed pass band.


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## iroller (Dec 11, 2010)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

put a strap on them and tell them there headsets.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



Electrodynamic said:


> Nice looking parts. I love the picture of the ass end...I mean back of the tyoke.
> 
> Looks like a beast. Nice big 2" diameter coil, copper shorting ring, XBL^2 motor. I like it.


You aren't a proctologist by any chance?


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



iroller said:


> put a strap on them and tell them there headsets.


They have a low enough inductance to play pretty high.

The bass effects might get a little intense. You would have to have one out of polarity or it might cave in your skull.

Maybe I could market this to skull candy.....

Head morphing phones.... Yeah that's the ticket.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Hmmm.... two of these in a small box under the dashboard as a hidden "front subwoofer"?


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



HondAudio said:


> Hmmm.... two of these in a small box under the dashboard as a hidden "front subwoofer"?


That depends on a number of things. If you have eq available it could work. When I have final parameters I will post up a few different box designs. Should make things interesting.

If you know how to model a box you will find that unassisted there is a fairly quick roll off below 50 hertz.


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## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



mwmkravchenko said:


> Look on my phototbucket. there is indeed an 8 at exactly the same stage. Just waiting for the magnets.
> 
> It uses aluminum for the inductance shorting rings. Just a little different from copper. Like two different fine wines. Copper has something to offer and aluminum has something to offer. It depends on the drivers designed pass band.


That's what I want to hear.. The 8's might go over pretty good on here.. Even in the SI 6.5 thread there were lots of questions about an 8, that's def a market that is a bit bare at the moment overall for new good choices. Get me something in the mid to low 90's effeciency with a similar xmax value to what you've got already for the 6.5 and you'll be in business.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



T3mpest said:


> That's what I want to hear.. The 8's might go over pretty good on here.. Even in the SI 6.5 thread there were lots of questions about an 8, that's def a market that is a bit bare at the moment overall for new good choices. Get me something in the mid to low 90's effeciency with a similar xmax value to what you've got already for the 6.5 and you'll be in business.


How about high 80's. I could do low to mid 90's but the motor cost will increase quite a bit.

I'll set up the 8 inch thread soon enough.

And yes there will be a group buy on this thread for the 6.5 

Just have to finalize the parameters. Waiting on magnets.


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## zinophile (May 23, 2011)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Hi,

Put me down as another person interested in the shallower mount 6.5" driver!


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

I think 8's are good for doors if you want to go subless...outside of that, if you have a sub, 6.5 is plenty IMO.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



mwmkravchenko said:


> Look on my phototbucket. there is indeed an 8 at exactly the same stage. Just waiting for the magnets.
> 
> It uses aluminum for the inductance shorting rings. Just a little different from copper. Like two different fine wines. Copper has something to offer and aluminum has something to offer. It depends on the drivers designed pass band.


Sign me up for a pair.!


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## momax_powers (Oct 26, 2013)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Pricing for fellow ontarion?


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

You could fill books with the stuff i Don't know about speakers or even what all these numbers mean, so i may be off with this question. 
But, isn't a FS of 60hz fairly high for a speaker that would be used as midbass? Not knowing how you much you can "massage" that number and all. How low do you expect these to play in your average IB door install?



mwmkravchenko said:


> Targets are:
> 
> Sd 122cm^2
> X max 14mm
> ...


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## JoshHefnerX (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Didn't see any power handling on the specs.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



GLN305 said:


> Sign me up for a pair.!


I have posted information on the First page that sets up the group buy. Many have been asking. I need a critical mass to get this moving. With the demand that I have been getting the 50pcs I posted should be reached in no time flat.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



momax_powers said:


> Pricing for fellow ontarion?


Fellow Ontarioan gets Canadian dollar pricing plus HST.

I am a legit business.

Somewhere someone has to pay for this land oh plenty. So we all get to chip in our taxes.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



1fishman said:


> You could fill books with the stuff i Don't know about speakers or even what all these numbers mean, so i may be off with this question.
> But, isn't a FS of 60hz fairly high for a speaker that would be used as midbass? Not knowing how you much you can "massage" that number and all. How low do you expect these to play in your average IB door install?


Most of the power in music, the bass power is between 64 hertz and 120 hertz. That is true even for movies and special effects.

In the right enclosure this little driver can kick butt. It has serious excursion capability. So if you are determined in a sealed enclosure with EQ set at the right points and slopes this driver can produce some serious output to 35 hertz in a car.

I will post different enclosure possibilities when I have final parameters.



I have an 8 and a 15 in the same state of readiness. They are designed for the lower end of the spectrum.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



JoshHefnerX said:


> Didn't see any power handling on the specs.



Good point. The coil is rated for 150 continuous. As in 150 watts prosound continuous.

The driver is not. It has been a marketing fantasy that a larger watts rating has anything to do with driver performance.

A driver has no watts. An amplifier has them. A driver efficiency and the environment that it is in determines how many watts will produce what kind of sound pressure level.

I will post video and power input so you have an idea what the real world performance of this driver can be.

If you are interested I covered this in detail in the tweeter group buy. I will do exactly the same thing for this driver in this thread.

Thanks for the question.

I updated the first post to reflect the answer and added a little more details.

It's ferrite cousin with less X-max is in the video below.

This video was taken with 24 volts input on the driver. To get watts from volts you multiply the voltage like this:

24^2= 576 then you divide that number by your rated impedance. 4 ohms for this particular driver.

576/4= 144 watts on an 1.25 inch coil:



CLICK ON THE VIDEO!


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

When I typed the title of this thread I had a brain fart and forgot the term GROUPBUY.

Any chance a moderator could fix the thread title?


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



mwmkravchenko said:


> I have posted information on the First page that sets up the group buy. Many have been asking. I need a critical mass to get this moving. With the demand that I have been getting the 50pcs I posted should be reached in no time flat.


I was referring to the 8'' driver.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



GLN305 said:


> I was referring to the 8'' driver.


Soon, very soon.

On that puppy I am waiting for a magnet and a spider.

When I have good specs I will be putting it up.

This 6.5 is a refinement of an existing design that I know the parameters of.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*

Done for a set gratis...




mwmkravchenko said:


> When I typed the title of this thread I had a brain fart and forgot the term GROUPBUY.
> 
> Any chance a moderator could fix the thread title?


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



mwmkravchenko said:


> I have an 8 and a 15 in the same state of readiness. They are designed for the lower end of the spectrum.


Very interested in the 15"! Can you share your end performance goals with the 15, & maybe some preliminary T/S parameters? Would you consider it a good candidate for an "IB" install?


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



thehatedguy said:


> Done for a set gratis...


Evil little bugger.

:mean:


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

@ thehatedguy

Like the addition of Midwoofer.

Good Idea.

Thanks!


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Very interested in the 15"! Can you share your end performance goals with the 15, & maybe some preliminary T/S parameters? Would you consider it a good candidate for an "IB" install?

Think TC Sounds with greaterfinesse. And throw.

But sorry not well suited for an infinite baffle. I'm thinking you are reffering to a deck on the back windshield overtop the trunk right?


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## fish (Jun 30, 2007)

mwmkravchenko said:


> Very interested in the 15"! Can you share your end performance goals with the 15, & maybe some preliminary T/S parameters? Would you consider it a good candidate for an "IB" install?
> 
> Think TC Sounds with greaterfinesse. And throw.
> 
> But sorry not well suited for an infinite baffle. I'm thinking you are reffering to a deck on the back windshield overtop the trunk right?


Nice! I really enjoyed my old TC2000 15"er. And yes, I was referring to a trunk baffle, so not true IB, hence the quotations.  So more of a small sealed/vented design?


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

14mm 1 way?


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Designed to the Max 6.5 inch XBL MIDWOOFER*



gregerst22 said:


> This looks like it'll be a very nice mid but an 8" with an sd around 215 sq cm and 14mm xmax would really get my attention :shocked2:


KA Kleine Sub Photos by mwmkravchenko | Photobucket

I've uploaded the particulars.

But as this is the thread for the 6.5 I'll leave the comments limited. Take a look around on the photobucket page.

If you have questions about the 8 P.M. please.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

edzyy said:


> 14mm 1 way?




This is a chart that shows the simulated motor with distortion plotted against excursion.



Target Theile/Small parameters. These always float around a bit. So don't hold on these as being the final specs. But the fundamentals are there. The cone mass is known, the coil mass is known. The variables are the spider Cms and the actual motor strength.



Normal X-max numbers are taken at a ten percent distortion point. And low and behold I get 13.5mm at just under ten percent.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I'll be posting this through out this thread .

It is a list of gentlemen who have both paid for their order and confirmed their shipping addresses:


Eric Clark 2pcs KAXBL6.5NEO
Chris Carroll 2pcs KAXBL6.5NEO


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

gregerst22 said:


> Based on the numbers these should have close to 90% the output of my 8" ZR800's. The low inductance should help it play clean in the upper frequencies. could they outperform the highly regarded Dyn 650's for a fraction of the price? Any chance we'll see one klippel tested?


I see the value in Klippel testing because it has become a buzz word in audio. Wolfgang Klippel has been a very successful marketer in terms of getting his name out. And people have bought into the idea that it is a standard.

One of the companies I worked for a few years ago was on that band wagon and I did verification testing with my gear.

I use a Smith&Larson WoofertesterPro. It looks like a science fair project plastic box but it is a very powerful piece of test gear.

Funny thing is that it shows up things that the Klippel testing fails to show. And it is just as consistent. Every time I can get the same results. 

And the method of testing X-max on the WoofertesterPro is actually closer to real world conditions. My system used AC signals to push the driver out until there is a change in Fs. This has been known to be a point where either the surround or the spider are limiting. It's pretty accurate. Good to a millimeter. And I can use any amount of power I choose to because it works off of a voltage divide resister. Adapt the resister and you can measure to a higher power. My amp stops at 150. My Parasound stops at 400 watts and my big puppy stops at 4800 watts.

Klippel uses DC pulses. Yes they move the coil out. But you have to do some pretty complex mathematical transforms to get the AC equivalent. It is one of the reasons why you can get some pretty weird data showing really high X-max figures out of Klippel when there really is none. 

So because I'm definitely anti-trendy. No Apple or designer anything on me.

And because I have a lot of experience in testing drivers I have no interest in blowing a couple hundred on shipping and $150 to RedRock or Warkwyn (about an hours drive from my house) to do a Klippel test.

But I will happily video my testing methods. And you can decide for yourself if I am giving the honest goods or not.

As for low inductance.

Glad you are a perceptive guy. You are completely correct that this driver has the ability to play high up in frequency. in fact it will be very linear to the point where it starts to beam. I can get the exact measurement on Tuesday and post it. China is off for a holiday. And I'm going to Hong Kong to reset my passport in about half an hour.

This driver was designed as a part of a suite of drivers that work together. The tweeter on this forum that I'm making available is a great complement to it. And that was all part of the plan man.


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

mwmkravchenko said:


> I see the value in Klippel testing because it has become a buzz word in audio. Wolfgang Klippel has been a very successful marketer in terms of getting his name out. And people have bought into the idea that it is a standard.
> 
> One of the companies I worked for a few years ago was on that band wagon and I did verification testing with my gear.
> 
> ...


+1 for android phone


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

Interesting about the WoofertesterPro.

Hey you are about an hour away from me... maybe we could do a meet up if you are interested.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm in Hong Kong today. Back to Guangzhou this afternoon. 

I'll be here for another couple of weeks. Then I'll be in BC. Working with a client before we go to RMAF.

Should be close to home sometime the end of October.

But yeah. It is a possibility.

Running around half the planet to make sure I get the job done right!

Also because I have a bunch of consulting work in china!


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

miniSQ said:


> +1 for android phone


Yep. A WoofertesterPro is a little over a grand.

You should check out the cost of a simple Klippel system.

$8000. 

Doesn't take a mathematician to work it out with a pencil.

Unless he's constipated.....

Oh I had to do that. 

Jokes from grade school. My kids are all gone and they all told me the same jokes I told my folks.


----------



## Bloodyjames (Dec 7, 2013)

Am interested. But they seem to be suited for a ported enclosure am I correct? I'd really like to see how it performs as a mid-bass driver. Maybe I can finally retire my dear CDT ES06.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Bloodyjames said:


> Am interested. But they seem to be suited for a ported enclosure am I correct? I'd really like to see how it performs as a mid-bass driver. Maybe I can finally retire my dear CDT ES06.


It depends on what you have to work with.

Many guys are using DSP to tweak their systems. If you have that on tap you could use these in a sealed enclosure. Correctly sized it could be a real slammer.

When I have final specs I will throw up a bunch of box possibilities.

I've done a whole mess of enclosures with 6.5 inch drivers. Two can really rock your world if you have the space for the right kind of box.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm working on a video that shows some options.

I keep making mistakes while making it, so give me a few more tries!

I hates making videos.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

The magnets are supposed to be in sometime today. So if they are. I put together some pre-production drivers. It's a hurry up and wait situation.

I hates waiting.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I got me some magnets!



Lots of them!



Side profile.



Now for the sake of a dust cap. I'm in business. Supposed to be here today or tomorrow.


----------



## Icefsh (Jan 20, 2013)

Will these mids be ready soon? Wondering if it would be around the same time frame as the tweeters?


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

These will be running in pre-production as soon as I get the dust caps. I'll take a movie of those processes so you get a little idea of how this all goes together.

Production run is middle to end of November.

I may be able to push it faster if I have enough orders.

Simple scale of biggest dog gets the bone first.


----------



## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

I look forward to any details on the 8".

I think the 8"s will get more interest than 6.5"s


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

1fishman said:


> I look forward to any details on the 8".
> 
> I think the 8"s will get more interest than 6.5"s


Yes I think you are right.

If I had half a brain I would have read that Nick is launching a great shallow 6.5 at the same time.

I have have a mind to just ask to have this thread deleted.

The eights are almost ready and in the same situation. Waiting on cones for those.


----------



## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I pre-ordered the tweeter and this is so tempting.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Alright.

It is a very well made driver. And I am getting made in the same factory that does the tweeters. They are the top of the heap in terms of quality both materials and build.

That's the pro side.

Con side this is not a shallow design. It is a built for the long throw design, and I did not do anything tho the basket to make it less shallow. I made it so that It would have better excursion.

So butt kicking midbass is what this is. And a purpose designed complement to the XBL tweeter that I offer.

So yes it is a component set.


----------



## TommyDS (May 27, 2012)

8 inch is supposed to be a woofer or a subwoofer?? Looking forward to a great 3way front from 8inch, 5,25 or 4 inch and tweeter


----------



## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

TommyDS said:


> 8 inch is supposed to be a woofer or a subwoofer?? Looking forward to a great 3way front from 8inch, 5,25 or 4 inch and tweeter


Or, 8" woofer 3" midrange and tweeter. But not too deep, 3.5" range


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

TommyDS said:


> 8 inch is supposed to be a woofer or a subwoofer?? Looking forward to a great 3way front from 8inch, 5,25 or 4 inch and tweeter


Have an 8

Have a 5.25

And have a tweeter.

Almost sounds like I'm speaking your language.

An 8 with 14mm X max one way is a pretty good woofer, or little sub so I called it a Kleine Sub ( Little Sub)


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

1fishman said:


> Or, 8" woofer 3" midrange and tweeter. But not too deep, 3.5" range


Not planning on anything smaller than a 5.25. 

I have a two inch wideband that is actually pretty smooth. But that is as far as I'm going to go for little drivers.

You need the swept volume of a 5.25 to do anything worth while in the first place. And mine has every trick in the book used to keep it low distortion.


----------



## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Any info on your two inch wideband?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

Do you know the mounting depth of your 8" is going to be? I'm just hoping the 8" wont be much more that 3.5" deep.


----------



## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

I see a new set of tower speakers for my basement being made utilizing the 8's, 5.25, and tweets .


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Weightless said:


> Any info on your two inch wideband?




Mervin Kruckshank's (mwmkravchenko) Library | Photobucket


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

1fishman said:


> Do you know the mounting depth of your 8" is going to be? I'm just hoping the 8" wont be much more that 3.5" deep.


Picky picky Picky

And what if it is?

Although I don't think it is.

I'll have to measure it on Monday.

Don't think I have a drawing of the basket.


----------



## Infinity (Jun 28, 2005)

I just looked at the Photobucket.....seriously interesting stuff in there!


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Infinity said:


> I just looked at the Photobucket.....seriously interesting stuff in there!


Glad you like it.

Making some top flight drivers. And I almost have a complete suite.

The 15" sub is taking me a bit of time. The rest are just waiting on the missing parts. 

The magnet for the sub is really large and the vendor is having some difficulty manufacturing it.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I'll be posting this through out this thread .

It is a list of gentlemen who have both paid for their order and confirmed their shipping addresses:


Eric Clark 2pcs KAXBL6.5NEO
Chris Carroll 2pcs KAXBL6.5NEO

User names:

ntimd8n-k5
edouble101


----------



## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

User names might be better then full names


----------



## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Agree on the user name.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

User names!

I think that they can identify themselves should they care to.

I do it for purposes of making sure I have correct name and shipping addresses.

If the people on the list have no problem with their username instead of their real name let me know please.


----------



## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Would this and your tweeter in production make a good combination for a 2-way?


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

SQLnovice said:


> Would this and your tweeter in production make a good combination for a 2-way?


That is exactly what they were designed for.

I made a suite of drivers that work well together.


----------



## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

mwmkravchenko said:


> That is exactly what they were designed for.
> 
> I made a suite of drivers that work well together.


Thanks. I ordered the tweeter already. Working on convincing myself to spend $360 on these mids.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm slowly uploading the build videos.

Have the custom spiders. Had an interesting discussion with the vendor about how much excursion in a 6.5 with a 2 inch coil. Nice spiders. But it cost me big time. And the motors are built.

The cones that were supposed to be here aren't.

One painful piece at a time.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

SQLnovice said:


> Thanks. I ordered the tweeter already. Working on convincing myself to spend $360 on these mids.


Yep.

Only money.

It grows on tress and in the fields (cotton)

The ink.

Now that a completely different story.

But the Federal Reserve can make Monopoly money?

Why can't we?


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Beginning of the woofer assembly videos is up.

My hotel WiFi is slooooww w w !

But back at the office in an hour.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Some of the videos are up.

Slowly but surely:


----------



## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

mwmkravchenko said:


> Yes I think you are right.
> 
> If I had half a brain I would have read that Nick is launching a great shallow 6.5 at the same time.
> 
> ...


Yeah you picked a bad time for the 6.5's, especially with his price to performance ratio on his presale. However, 8's aren't on his agenda.. Guys that go to the trouble of fitting 8's generally arent' working on as tight a budget and want the best midbass they can get in many cases. The 8's will be a hit I bet.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

The 8's build is in the process of being uploaded to.

Covering the bases with a set of drivers.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I have decided to close this thread if a moderator is willing to help.

The two gents that have purchased the drivers will be covered. I have enough drivers.

If anyone is dying to get these I'm easy to contact.

Nick has a great driver and I'm sorry I did not do my homework before starting this thread. I seriously thought he had already launched it and it was a in production driver.

Sorry Nick!

So again with the help of a kindly moderator please shut this thread down.


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

I am glad I got in on these. I wish I had more funds to order more sets!


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Good to see a happy client.

These are and still will be available.

Just not on this site.

I'll set something up on my website.


----------



## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

I'll be in touch in the future Sir thank you for keeping us all up to date on your endeavors.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Grand Forks.

I used to go there for short little shopping trips in the 80's.

Bet it's changed just a little bit.

Last time I was there was 8 years ago.


----------



## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

Yeah it has housing is getting tight and hotels keep popping up for everyone on short shopping trips. If you are ever down this way I'll have to buy ya a drink.


----------



## Icefsh (Jan 20, 2013)

Will they still be available for the group buy price?


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I will honor that price until the end of October.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Nick has contacted me and said what for are you shutting it down?

So if I have the blessing of the guy I did not want to piss off.

Well then heck.

She's back up boys!


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Easier to work with an existing forum than setup my own anyway.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

So a recapp.

Groupbuy is open again.

I will post some videos and pics to keep it interesting.

Dimensions are something I keep getting axed about, so I have to whip up something.


----------



## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Great.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

So the 8 has it's own thread:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...x-8-inch-xbl-woofer-groupbuy.html#post2171272

I'm updating it with videos and pictures.

Been chasing AMT difficulties.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I put all the videos on Youtube because photobucket will not allow large enough videos.







Beginnings of the motor assembly.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Next stage of assembly.


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

awwwesome!

love the weighing of the glue, and the mix paper touring as application tube...


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

cajunner said:


> awwwesome!
> 
> love the weighing of the glue, and the mix paper touring as application tube...


Yep.

Jimmy really knows what he is doing.

The greatest part of all of this is that while these are being made by hand, all of them are made by hand with similar methods, but tighter QC. On the production line instead of weighing the glue it is weighed from an automatic dispensing system. And that is verified three times an hour.

There are more videos to come.

Stay tuned.


----------



## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

PM sent.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Ainuke said:


> PM sent.


PM answered!


----------



## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

Are the prices in Canadian dollars I assume ?

Can you post O/D and cut out dimensions in metric please ?

Could you elaborate on the enclosure size please ? I'm looking at a pass band of 80hz-1k apx', using them in a three way front plus sub.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

andy335touring said:


> Are the prices in Canadian dollars I assume ?
> 
> Can you post O/D and cut out dimensions in metric please ?
> 
> Could you elaborate on the enclosure size please ? I'm looking at a pass band of 80hz-1k apx', using them in a three way front plus sub.


The prices are in U.S. dollars.

Dimensions:



As for using this in a bandpass. They are extremely tough on drivers. Not recommended for this one. If you know what you are doing and will not beat the living poop out of it, it could work. But I stopped making bandpass boxes many years ago. No client ever had a system that lasted any length of time.

I'll model a few and see what makes sense.

What are you trying to squeeze out of the driver that you want to use a bandpass enclosure?


----------



## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

mwmkravchenko said:


> As for using this in a bandpass. They are extremely tough on drivers. Not recommended for this one. If you know what you are doing and will not beat the living poop out of it, it could work. But I stopped making bandpass boxes many years ago. No client ever had a system that lasted any length of time.
> 
> I'll model a few and see what makes sense.
> 
> What are you trying to squeeze out of the driver that you want to use a bandpass enclosure?


I think he meant he was going to set the crossovers so that the speaker would play from 80-1000 hz, not use it in a bandpass box.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Notloudenuf said:


> I think he meant he was going to set the crossovers so that the speaker would play from 80-1000 hz, not use it in a bandpass box.


Actually when I read it again I think you are right.

Been sick with a wicked cold. And my brain is definitely running on less than all eight cylinders.

Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

Yes, sorry, I should have worded that sentence a bit better.

What sized sealed enclosure would you recommend ?

Thanks for posting the size of the driver. I thought these were supposed to be fairly deep drivers but 54mm is less than my Dynaudio MW160 ?


----------



## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

andy335touring said:


> I thought these were supposed to be fairly deep drivers but 54mm is less than my Dynaudio MW160 ?


Sorry, realized after I posted that's just the basket depth not including the magnet assembly.

Your not the the only one suffering a cold/lack of sleep !


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

andy335touring said:


> Sorry, realized after I posted that's just the basket depth not including the magnet assembly.
> 
> Your not the the only one suffering a cold/lack of sleep !




Brain damage is contagious!

As for sealed enclosure I'll run some numbers today.


----------



## t-man (Dec 4, 2008)

Sorry if this has been posted but I haven't been able to find the info. Mark, how deep are these drivers; mounting depth?

Thanks


----------



## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

t-man said:


> Sorry if this has been posted but I haven't been able to find the info. Mark, how deep are these drivers; mounting depth?
> 
> Thanks


page 1

"The basket is 54mm deep from the front. The flange thickness is 6mm. So a little math and we get 90mm deep. *3 9/16 inches deep*."


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

+:thumbsup:


----------



## edouble101 (Dec 9, 2010)

When do you think we will be receiving these?


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I am waiting for the Latest numbers on the new magnet.

If they are good they are ready.

So, I wait like you wait.


----------



## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

Welcome to the bleeding edge.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Getting drivers like this made in China is not an easy task.

Getting them made in a small pre-production run is last on a long list of things factories do not want to do.

And that is not starting at my assembler. But at all the parts suppliers.

Small parts runs are the beginning and the end of the problems. They don't want to supply 50 pcs. They want to supply 500!


----------



## Ddeitz (Jan 26, 2009)

Still taking orders ? 

(id have PM'd but, had to have at least one post first it seems )


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Ddeitz said:


> Still taking orders ?
> 
> (id have PM'd but, had to have at least one post first it seems )


It depends on how long you care to wait.

I have hit the limits of the pre-production run.

I will have to do another one. And realistically we would be looking at post new year.

I'm having some fun and games with my magnet vendor and my build house talking turkey.


----------



## Ddeitz (Jan 26, 2009)

Id love to wait, but not sure its in the cards right now sadly, are you planning on another run of them or are you still seeing if there is interest?


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I am waiting for my first mini batch.

If there is interest I will do another.

The wait is getting the correct magnet, the magnet supplier and my build house to talk at the same time about the same thing.

Language can be an enormous problem. My build house is great if I talk to the owned, and drops off incrementally from there.

That being said, it is leaps and bounds better than other places.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

any update on these and your tweeters? i noticed that your tweeter thread was closed


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Not closed by me!

The tweeters are almost ready. Just read part of an email to that effect.

Woofers require some further modifications on the motor to meet my design goals. That is taking a little longer than expected. The best news is that an OEM has picked up on this driver idea and is wanting a production run. That means I will be able to get this moving a little quicker than it's current glacial pace.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I'll be posting all the info on my website from now on.


----------



## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

mwmkravchenko said:


> I'll be posting all the info on my website from now on.


with the change in DIYMA ownership, maybe there has been some changes made in the management, and maybe smaller production outfits like your one-man show will be allowed to create threads that are functioning as a de facto website, where you can post details about your products and discuss ordering options?

without having to pay the stiff vendor fee?

I can understand where the mother hen wants to make money by taxing the capitalists, those obviously commercial people that sell their various lines of car audio products, here on the forum, but some obvious small potatoes operation/manufacturer shouldn't be saddled with a huge upgrade requirement, imho.

This kind of oppression is against the spirit of the forum with it's historical emphasis on installing raw drivers, especially if you make it hard for the DIYMA enthusiast to find raw drivers, by cutting the small manufacturers out of the forum based on a guideline of profit-driven interpretation.

I'd send in an email to the new management, to see if something couldn't be done to let you continue your marketing of some basically home-build products? Couldn't hurt, since you are censored already.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

cajunner said:


> with the change in DIYMA ownership, maybe there has been some changes made in the management, and maybe smaller production outfits like your one-man show will be allowed to create threads that are functioning as a de facto website, where you can post details about your products and discuss ordering options?
> 
> without having to pay the stiff vendor fee?
> 
> ...


Your comments are appreciated.

And I agree.

But this website is obviously a business. Being bought and sold like any other. They are in this to make money. And probably not in business to give a little guy a free ride. 

Hence the shift over to the website.


----------



## HiloDB1 (Feb 25, 2011)

How about the KA8NEO when will those be complete and will they available to the general public? Also very interested in your 15's.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

HiloDB1 said:


> How about the KA8NEO when will those be complete and will they available to the general public? Also very interested in your 15's.


I'll put up more info on the website.

The 8 is perfect. It requires no tweeking. And can be produced at the drop of a hat.

Just need a large enough order from either an OEM or to much money and nothing to do with it!


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

mwmkravchenko said:


> I'll put up more info on the website.
> 
> The 8 is perfect. It requires no tweeking. And can be produced at the drop of a hat.
> 
> Just need a large enough order from either an OEM or to much money and nothing to do with it!


how deep was the 8 again?


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Heck I'd have to look in the thread myself. 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/2168748-post13.html


----------



## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

cajunner said:


> without having to pay the stiff vendor fee?
> 
> I can understand where the mother hen wants to make money by taxing the capitalists, those obviously commercial people that sell their various lines of car audio products, here on the forum, but some obvious small potatoes operation/manufacturer shouldn't be saddled with a huge upgrade requirement, imho.



There is at least one individual here selling as a business that is not required to pay the vendor fees.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Even with the new owner?


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

mwmkravchenko said:


> Even with the new owner?


the new owners are just that. new owners. they havent changed a thing


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I was sent a notice asking for payment. Short story is $1500 would go a long way to developing more product.

At any rate I appreciate being able to reach out to you guys as far as I am allowed.


----------



## Salami (Oct 10, 2007)

Before and after.


----------



## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

There is more than one not paying, and that does not make it a level playing field. It is either happening because of favoritism or because they just got skipped for other reasons. Some have a long history of supporting their products through discussion and it is hard to push back against that or they walk the line where they discuss their hand full of products and only mention price and where to buy when someone asks (gray area but not really). Or they are kind of small time, like shop owners or peddle a few low priced items.

I think mwmkravchenko has been a very decent person and could make an excellent long term supplier of equipment with product knowledge to benefit many people. Thanks.


----------



## Souldrop (Nov 2, 2014)

Any rough ETA for these? I'm looking to do a partial rebuild late July and would love to try them out.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I'll say about two months.

I have my tweeters car mounting cups in the production phase right now. They actually stated on the 30th of April with the request to the factory. Which means they started on them some time this week.

Finally. 

The 6.5's need some motor tweeking that requires some time with my factory and some time with me in verification of what the factory has accomplished. Thicker magnet donut and a change on the motor hight and shape.

That is the part I am waiting on.

The good news on that front is that i have an OEM that is buying a boat load of them. So that usually gets the attention of the factory owner right quickly.

I'm making up a few new pages on my website this weekend to showcase the drivers so everything will be posted there quite soon.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

schmiddr2 said:


> I think mwmkravchenko has been a very decent person and could make an excellent long term supplier of equipment with product knowledge to benefit many people. Thanks.



:blush:


----------



## Souldrop (Nov 2, 2014)

Cool! I'll hold out on purchasing anything for a few more weeks.


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Bringing this back, Mark I love your tweets, are you making these? And if so, when?


----------



## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

fourthmeal said:


> Bringing this back, Mark I love your tweets, are you making these? And if so, when?


I'll be interested too @ the $180.00 price point.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I am negotiating with my build house to make me a small run.

If you guys are serious contact me and let me know.

The main problem with the build house is the tiny size of what I am asking. Pushing up the build number gets their attention much more quickly.

I can get close to $180 but that is and was a number for the history books.


----------



## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

mwmkravchenko said:


> I can get close to $180 but that is and was a number for the history books.


So we're talking $181 then?  I'm out!


----------



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I am interested but once we get past the $200-each range we're talking a territory of really, really good drivers with already established reputations for performance, especially units that fit in a door with proper QTS blah blah.

It gets tough to "sell" the idea to people you're building for.


----------



## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

fourthmeal said:


> I am interested but once we get past the $200-each range we're talking a territory of really, really good drivers with already established reputations for performance, especially units that fit in a door with proper QTS blah blah.
> 
> It gets tough to "sell" the idea to people you're building for.



And?

Among your favorite brands find me a 6.5 inch aluminum cones 2 inch coil that has 14mm X-max.

And if you can find it, give me a price.

If you cannot "sell yourself on the merits if these drivers you will not be able to sell anyone else either.

I know very well that brand names are what the greater majority are after. My answer is good for them. Let them stick to their favorite brand name.

For the minority that know and understand true engineering value I have things to offer that are not available.

And that costs money to make properly.

If you cannot sell the quality of these drivers with the details and photos as well as videos I have provided tell me a brand that has provided anywhere near this level of information?

And name me a brand name that sells all of it's drivers as matched sets. Everyone of them with near identical performance in every parameter.

Yes rare as a tooth on a chicken ( I raise chickens. And they don't have teeth!) 

What I am seriously trying to get pushed through is a shallow version of this driver with the identical specs. And yes a high Qts is the design goal.

Remember one thing.

I do listen when you guys ask for tweaks and improvements. All you have to do is make a sensible argument and I'm all ears.

As for cost I'll brake it down a little.

Here is the nitty gritty.

The drivers are produced in small runs and the motor parts are made via CNC turning out of billet stock. 

All my drivers have optimised inductance shorting rings. What level of driver do you have to pay for to get those?

The baskets are custom machined to allow greater X-max and a greater Sd than normal. 

Ever hear of open tooling? That's a code word for off the shelf parts that are put together to make up a driver. I use nothing that is off the shelf.

I tooled a custom spider. I own the tooling. I tooled a custom surround, again I own the tooling. I also tooled a custom cone. Own that tool to.

These are one of a kind drivers. Very high performance. What power ratings get slapped on two inch coil drivers from your famous brand names? And do you actually believe the ratings that are on the specs?

And how many of them are actually made with one piece motor assemblies?

Realize that a one piece fully tricked out motor is allowing me to get performance that is not available from anything but the European brands and one or two very high priced Asian made brand names.

Performance costs. Always has, always will.

And people interested in performance will always be willing to pay for that level of performance.

If you guys want me to keep on producing this type of driver I will keep doing it at a price that I can sustain the production with.

If it is a good product with good specs I expect to be able to sell a few.


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## etroze (Dec 24, 2013)

I'd pay to play 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

I wonder if you would have enough interest to do a 6x9 version of this? Seems a lot of vehicles nowadays come with stock 6x9 locations but many cannot fit an 8". And many cannot fit the ID 6x9's (which seem to be the gold standard) because of their 3.5" mounting depth.

A shallow 6x9 with this technology would seem to make sense.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

In, for information and consideration


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

brumledb said:


> I wonder if you would have enough interest to do a 6x9 version of this? Seems a lot of vehicles nowadays come with stock 6x9 locations but many cannot fit an 8". And many cannot fit the ID 6x9's (which seem to be the gold standard) because of their 3.5" mounting depth.
> 
> A shallow 6x9 with this technology would seem to make sense.


You are the first.

So no, not enough interest.

And boy would that cost me to set up!


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

etroze said:


> I'd pay to play
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Getting closer.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

There's no "and", I totally understand where you're coming from. There's nothing like what you're proposing, it is unique product with no competition. But I think availability is also important. When doing builds, picking stuff readily available is paramount most of the time. My personal build, nah not so much 




mwmkravchenko said:


> And?
> 
> Among your favorite brands find me a 6.5 inch aluminum cones 2 inch coil that has 14mm X-max.
> 
> ...


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## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

I'd be in for the shallow 6.5". And dare I say, an 8" shallow midbass? Prolly not a huge demand for that though.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Onyx1136 said:


> I'd be in for the shallow 6.5". And dare I say, an 8" shallow midbass? Prolly not a huge demand for that though.


I'd go so far as to say there's a market for shallow EVERYTHING if it doesn't have sound compromises for being shallow. 

Nick was explaining some of the limits in another thread, some things are just physics in play and not something you can change, so there's that. But with doors being built how they are today, shallow is GREAT. Plus a larger speaker that fits in the original spot of a smaller speaker has great potential too. One example:










That's a TM65 sitting behind a Mazdaspeed door panel. Notice the speaker has plenty of room around it for a larger diameter cone, likely an 8 at maximum. I had a fun time making a TM65 fit, and it is a shallow speaker, but it worked out without any metal cutting. An 8" midbass in this door would have been SWEET, because the door uses a sealed-up fiber-reinforced panel to basically make the thing as sealed as possible, minus the door's few vent holes and of course the window slit. But this door would easily have handled an 8 and it would have been fun to make it work. Shallow 8's rule.


You guys remember the Kicker RMB midbass units? The market could use something like that again but it might take time for the product to get some traction. It also might take time for the brand to gain awareness.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

fourthmeal said:


> I'd go so far as to say there's a market for shallow EVERYTHING if it doesn't have sound compromises for being shallow.
> 
> Nick was explaining some of the limits in another thread, some things are just physics in play and not something you can change, so there's that. But with doors being built how they are today, shallow is GREAT. Plus a larger speaker that fits in the original spot of a smaller speaker has great potential too. One example:
> 
> ...


I would hazard to say that brands get awareness by people that are happy with the products.

I hear the pitfall at this moment of availability. That come hand in glove with sales. And price of offered product. Basic math tells you that you must sell at a certain markup before you can afford to restock. This is what is going on with the revised pricing.

If I reopened the group buy it might get things moving again. At least I have a bit of a reputation for the tweeter. Very slow on the delivery but performance as promised. And that slow delivery problem has been fixed.

There is a product polling page on my website. If you guys are serious vote. I take those polls and look at them every week.

They are growing slowly.

If you guys think a shallow 8 is worth it send me some desired specs.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

for me, I'd like to see a narrow, shallow neo motor on a wide-out frame, with a cone that has the Dynaudio one-piece thing, where you could put the angle of the cone backwards like those old Infinity mids had at one time...

done in an 8" frame but able to fit into a 5.7" hole, with clearance for acoustic passage due to the narrow motor design.


it'd have to be either neo-radial or inside coil slug, I guess?

And since the cone would be reverse-angle...

I've seen people use 3/4" MDF A LOT, for spacer rings so if it was possible to put that inverted cone into a frame that just basically puts 7.25" of cone into a 6.5 nominal mounting hole, that did at least 9mm of clean throw, and had BL of 8.6 or better making a sensitivity of 91 db/watt, and used a 2 ohm 2" CCAW edge-wound coil able to take 300W of music power above 70 hz on a 12 db/oct slope, for 20 minute testing, not 100 hours, haha...

that would be cool.

some wicked cool frame design could be used, not plebe like the Aura shallow was, maybe use the Dynaudio one-piece cone/dustcap, in a reverse fashion like the Aura, with the motor reversed as well...

maybe make the "vents" act as slits for coil centering during assembly, then add some gummy stuff to viscous damp that whole dustcap ringing thing...


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm working on the premise of using a flat diaphragm. Honeycomb type. Nothing else will allow the excursion points I am looking for.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Mind= blown.

I'm no speaker designer (and I've had to say that before to you) but I can just sense that there'd be several insurmountable frequency response issues that would come with this "reverse cone" design at the frequencies we'd expect of a woofer/mid. 



cajunner said:


> for me, I'd like to see a narrow, shallow neo motor on a wide-out frame, with a cone that has the Dynaudio one-piece thing, where you could put the angle of the cone backwards like those old Infinity mids had at one time...
> 
> done in an 8" frame but able to fit into a 5.7" hole, with clearance for acoustic passage due to the narrow motor design.
> 
> ...


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

mwmkravchenko said:


> I'm working on the premise of using a flat diaphragm. Honeycomb type. Nothing else will allow the excursion points I am looking for.


PPI had some sweet-ass examples of that in the old-school. RMB8 had it going too. Really cool stuff.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

Put up a shallow 8 on the product poll page.

You guys get to vote for what you want.

If you have anything else on the wish list let me know.


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