# Lanson's 2015 Durango R/T build



## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Well the garage is now cleared of the Vette I was working on, so it is time for a new project. How about my own Durango? Seems time, since I've had the truck about a year and I'm thoroughly loving it. There's not much research out there on this platform, though Bradknob did a fantastic job archiving/researching the Grand Cherokee version of this truck, the Durango is a bit different. In an effort to help as many people as I can as I go on my own building journey, I've decided to measure, photograph, and comment on as much as I can. It will take much longer but one thing I have with this build is time, so I say let's go for it.

First up, I'm beginning the exploratory phase. This front speaker panel / defroster vent panel pops out with minimal effort. I simply used a plastic panel popper, and this popped right out.


























The speaker opening in the panel is approximately 2.8"

















The sun sensor measures approximately 0.92" wide on the top.








And has about .69" on the inside mounting point








(I measured those in case I try to mount a tweeter in the same spot, and transplant the sensor to the blank panel below)

The blank panel measures about 1.42"










This is the center channel speaker









It measures about 3.43" in diameter









It is about 1.85" deep









The speaker's height from the mounting point is .33"









The speaker's mounting holes are almost exactly 3.9" from each other, center to center.









The speaker's magnet diameter is 2.38"









The speaker mounting depth is only 1.75"









The area under the speaker is very cramped!

















Just for fun I tried placing a CSS 4.5" midrange (the VWR126), and was immediately prevented from placing it due to the magnet not fitting in. I didn't expect it to "work" but I did want to see the first place I'd get stuck. I think I could put a shallow 4" driver in there but with the speaker opening only ~2.8", it clearly would not benefit from a larger diameter. However, just looking at it, I'd say maybe a very powerful ~3" driver could do the job, like the Fountek FR89EX 4ohm https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-fullrange/fountek-fr89ex-3-full-range-4-ohm/ or the GR Research LGK 1.0 LGK 1.0 which has a mounting depth of 1.75", so it would clear with a mounting plate. Another option could be a Scanspeak Discovery 10F, for instance. Of all these, I've installed and used the FR89EX and it is a great driver.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

The next area I felt like digging into was the D-pillar speaker panels

Here's the backside of the panel

















Here's the speaker laid bare
























Close!









So what we learned with those is they are identical to the center, and the depth / clearances are similar.

Next up, the trunk area

















Gotta move this, believe this is the TPMS transceiver for the rear


















Depth is about 7 1/4" at the rearmost spot









The whole area is almost exactly 36" wide









Shape with the carpeting, driver's side









It is about 20" long in the center from the backside of where the seats mount








And about 18" on the ends









The top panel is 1.5" deep, and can possibly be reused if I'm crafty enough










So the gameplan so far is to run the Image Dynamics 6x9 midbass drivers, a quality tweeter in the factory location, and build up the rest of the system to match acoustically. Of course the sub side of things will get a nice "bump" as well, hopefully all under the factory floor height. That's the target, as historically most of my builds are full-stealth systems with full trunk usability.


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Here we go!

What the initial plan? 2 way front with center? Rear fill? 

I like the plan to document your findings for the people. I aim to do the same but I get a little too lazy to get as detailed as you seem to have done so far, great job.


How about some pics of the ride.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

bradknob said:


> Here we go!
> 
> What the initial plan? 2 way front with center? Rear fill?
> 
> ...


Sure! Interior is the Radar Red, which looks a bit intense in photos but in person it is glorious.









This stock head unit can't be replaced









Only mods so far are mats, modified mud guards, and wider 20x9 "SRT Goliath" rep wheels.


























And system gameplan is to use my MS-8, Arc KS900.6, some sort of powerful 5ch (like the Powerbass XMA maybe, checking with Majik on that), some Image Dynamics midbass 6x9's up front, a low-playing small tweeter that fits inside or right on top of the factory tweeter mounts (like you did with your Audiofrogs, Brad), Sundown SD3 12", and for the 3.5" drivers I'm honestly torn between going for a fullrange (like LGK or Fountek) or just go with quality 3.5" coaxial car audio speakers. System configuration should be two-way with center, rear fill + d-pillar fill in a mix by adjusting the gains on the extra amp channels. The MS-8 + adjustable gains on each set of channels should get me good surround fill out of those 4 speakers (rears doors + d-pillars.)


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

Hell yeah! Ready to see what you do with the platform, especially after seeing how the Vette came out. Guess it was your build thread that I caught on DodgeDurango.net yesterday. 

Great looking ride...but I'm admittedly a little biased. 

With keeping everything below the rear cargo floor height do you have any plans to relocate the jack and tire tools? Or would you build around them? Relocating allows for use of more space up to the back of the 3rd row seat brackets. I was thinking about that and building a pass-through to allow access to the spare tire release. 

The sensor on the stock cargo tray controls the proximity sensors on the doors and the locking buttons located on the handles. When disconnected, those will not function on my 2015 R/T.


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## PorkCereal (Nov 24, 2009)

Poor guy has to drive his ST while he builds his RT =D, sub'd


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

MoparMike said:


> Hell yeah! Ready to see what you do with the platform, especially after seeing how the Vette came out. Guess it was your build thread that I caught on DodgeDurango.net yesterday.
> 
> Great looking ride...but I'm admittedly a little biased.
> 
> ...


Ahh MoparMike, I'm glad you're on the DIYMA forum and surprised I didn't take notice of that before. To answer your questions, I definitely will be keeping the jack/tire tools in the vehicle but I'll likely be relocating them in a simple bag, and shove them in an unused corner of the trunk-to-be. I'll likely build the pass-through to the spare tire release as well, or make a hinge or something, we'll see.

Oh hey, I was curious how that install shop worked with the D-pillar signal which is supposed to be the backup beeping noise if I recall.



PorkCereal said:


> Poor guy has to drive his ST while he builds his RT =D, sub'd


Ha! This may end up being true but since my wife much prefers the Durango, I have to basically make it drive-able at the beginning of the week, and work on it over the weekends (probably.)


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## glockcoma (Dec 22, 2015)

Always enjoy following your builds. I read your entire flex build over on Ecoboost performance forum. Sub'd


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

fourthmeal said:


> Ahh MoparMike, I'm glad you're on the DIYMA forum and surprised I didn't take notice of that before. To answer your questions, I definitely will be keeping the jack/tire tools in the vehicle but I'll likely be relocating them in a simple bag, and shove them in an unused corner of the trunk-to-be. I'll likely build the pass-through to the spare tire release as well, or make a hinge or something, we'll see.
> 
> Oh hey, I was curious how that install shop worked with the D-pillar signal which is supposed to be the backup beeping noise if I recall.


I haven't played around with any of the other signal wires yet. We were just trying to get an idea of where to start. Your idea of keeping the rear channels is interesting especially with things like the rear sensors. Don't know what I'll do about that yet. Or the center channel which seems to handle the hands-free calls.

I will be doing my own build and am just lucky to have a friend who is willing to share some tools and his knowledge. My plan is a lot like Brad's, a 3-way in the front with mids in the pillars and stock locations for tweet and midbass. I sold a pair of SD2 12's that were in my Ram and picked up a pair of 10" SD-3's that I can't wait to hear. I've done some planning before I starting taking things apart and begun to cut some MDF today but rain ended that. Hopefully I'll start my build thread in the next couple of days and have something to share.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Moving forward with the build, I started a design and immediately scrapped it, realizing that I need to get creative with passive radiators and such. Anyway, the current list of gear either on its way or already in my hand:

Amps - Arc KS900.6 for front channel duties, Arc K500.1 mini for sub duty at 2ohm, and a late entry, the Power Acoustik Crypt mini amp, the CA4-1600d, to power the rear door and D-pillar speakers off a shared channel set on the MS-8.

Sub - a single Sundown SD3 10, dual 4 ohm. It will be working with two Creative Sound APR10 passive radiators, in as big a box as I can give them.

Processor -JBL MS-8

Speakers - Image Dynamics 6x9 midbass in front doors, Creative Sound LD22 tweeters in the sails, rear speakers undetermined but will find out soon, D-pillar speakers likely still stock and barely used, center channel is Wavecor FR090WA01, a 3 1/2" fullrange 4 ohm unit that looks pretty boss.



Its coming together! My biggest fear is running completely out of room. That's why I ordered one of the smallest sub amps and an additional tiny 4 channel amp to go with my already-existing amp and processor. The packaging of all of this will be intense, plus it still has to look good lit up!


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## bradknob (Oct 26, 2009)

Sounds like it will be a fun build. I'm Intrigued by the passive radiator idea. I've got a 10" with PR in living room and it sounds amazing. 

I actually really like the red interior. Ur right tho, in pics it's a little much but in person its perfect.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Update time, we start with this:








And I decided to carefully knife out the factory carpet to get to bedrock, so to speak. I'll be adding deadening (not sure if I'll pull out the stock stuff, it is really thorough) but this is the general trunk shape.









I decided to downfire, with a 2 1/2" spacer placed first









Had to put a slight cut in the spacer, to clear these drain things









This is the preliminary starting board. It might end up shorter than this, but this is maximum length to clear the spare tire wrench thing









Here's the reason for all the effort.









I realize that can be very hard to see, so I'll just describe. What we have here are 3 plots, each one with an 80 hz, 4th order LR slop on the Lowpass. The blue plot is a standard SD-3 10 D4 at 500W with a sealed box, about .7 cubic feet. The orange plot is a pair of SD-3's with the same 500W, with a bit larger box. The red plot is a single SD-3, and a pair of Creative Sound 10" PRs with added weight of 360 grams each, with a relatively small box of about .7 cubic feet (will try for bigger), just wanted to show the potential performance difference. 

With equal power, the PR setup gains 2.6dB over a single sealed at 60hz, 3.6dB at 50hz, and after that the PR setup beats even a pair of 10's. So at 40hz, 4.4dB gain over single, and 30hz gets a 3.4dB gain over single. Things start evening out after that. So the idea with the PR set is to get that boost without taking much extra space. If it works out poorly, I'll just rebuild the box with a different set of subs, and write this off as an experience.


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

My wife is looking at a Durango for her next car- so I'm watching this one.... and taking lots of notes


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## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

In for this, my Ram is set up very similar for the front stage. Have you checked depth for the XS69?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

the727kid said:


> In for this, my Ram is set up very similar for the front stage. Have you checked depth for the XS69?


I have not, but most fit guides peg it around 3.75" of workable depth. I believe the XS69 are "only" 3.6, so hopefully I'll be good. I am acquiring these speakers from a friend, whom we purchased these for his Tundra before reading of the insanely shallow door requirements. He's been holding on to these in case he sells his truck and buys something with some room in the doors, but it looks like he's sticking with the Tundra. If I don't absolutely love them, I'll migrate to a 3-way using pillars like my Flex had. I'm getting better and better at making pillars.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Tiny update time, I didn't have much time to actually work on the truck since my water heater failed and I was scrambling. 

Anyway, my KS500.1 mini came in. I wrapped it in shrink wrap to protect it during fabrication, and happened across a great new home for it.









There's sufficient clearance when the seat is up









And plenty when the seat is folded down as well









A small but important victory in the space battle, and ones like that will let me build a bigger subwoofer box which will make it more efficient with the passive radiators, and capable of a lower tune as well. The big space hogs are the MS-8 and the KS900.6, and there's not much I can do about that.


Anyway, my KS500.1 mini came in. I wrapped it in shrink wrap to protect it during fabrication, and happened across a great new home for it. Some other goodies are on their way, but they are taking slower routes I guess. This Saturday my goal is to make it down to my upholstery supplies place and let them find me a match to my red leather interior, so I can get some beauty in that trunk area.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

New gameplan, I scored a much more powerful sub amp (and some other goodies) and I'm ditching the PR setup to run two SD10's in a sealed config. With the additional power I'll get the SPL I was expecting with the PR setup, very similar to MoparMike's setup at this time. I predict our setups will look quite similar near the end, but it isn't on purpose, in fact I think it is more just how this vehicle "wants" to be built.

The PR setup would have been cool but more power with more active cone area is always better if it is available. If I was forced to keep my power level the PR solution would still be implemented. 

This weekend I started on my new plan, and came across a semi-decent way to do it. Turns out the rear interior trunk panel (the one the covers the sub) is "only" about $98 online brand new, oem so I decided to take a chance and cut it up. I did this because my design plan has me keeping the factory top cover, and the best way I've found to keep it is to also keep the trunk interior panel.

This is what it looks like on top, just like stock. But underneath, this is the initial trim I did to make it work.

























I trimmed much further, to get a somewhat consistent cut around the part. I startted with as big a panel as I could, but quickly I realized that my equipment is just too large for this.









With the part trimmed, I have 5" of clearance (4.25" of side, .75" top board) to make a box.









Based on the fact I need to mount my processor, my KS900.6, and some other parts, I needed to change my box shape. This is what I came up with as a solution. This gives up a bit of airspace but it make it possible to mount all my equipment at least.









Before I packed it in, I soldered up my speaker terminals


















My other amps should be here tomorrow or so, which will let me figure out the final mounting design.


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

Interesting idea to keep the stock cargo cover and cutting the tray to retain the mounting points and lip that it rests on. Props on cutting up some stock panels. Haven't had the nerve to do that yet. Any concerns about rattles ? 

How much depth will you have in the box? It looks like you said 4.25" height in the walls and .75" thick top plate for a total of 5". If you are still planning to run the SD3's they need 4.5" of depth at a minimum. Or you could route out the top panel of the box to counter sink the magnet. Just checking to see it I read that right?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

MoparMike said:


> Interesting idea to keep the stock cargo cover and cutting the tray to retain the mounting points and lip that it rests on. Props on cutting up some stock panels. Haven't had the nerve to do that yet. Any concerns about rattles ?
> 
> How much depth will you have in the box? It looks like you said 4.25" height in the walls and .75" thick top plate for a total of 5". If you are still planning to run the SD3's they need 4.5" of depth at a minimum. Or you could route out the top panel of the box to counter sink the magnet. Just checking to see it I read that right?


The bottom of the box is .75" so I have clearance to fit the SD-3's. Specifically, 5.25". Regarding rattles, this is always a concern. I'll try to mitigate by decoupling and adding deadener, just like all pieces of the puzzle!

The part is only ~100 bucks, I figured its the best shot I got at keeping the stock floor panel 100% functional. I'll sand and fiberglass the part in to look like it belongs and I think I might cover it in matching red vinyl after I'm done blending and matching the part up. 

For the look, what I'm thinking is to take the unused area up top, where the sub is downfiring, and make some sort of Dodge logo area or something. I need to figure out exactly how (thinking vinyl and etching) to make it look cool. Oh well, maybe too soon to think about that.


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

My bad, had a brain fart and didn't notice you were measuring from the inside of the baffle. 

I like the idea of bringing the red interior color back into the build. That interior option is one I'd like to see in person since several people have said that pictures don't do it justice.

One thing about the stock floor panel that I really like is that handle and latch mechanism. For a time I was thinking about how it could be retained, even if I scrapped the panel to get those parts out.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

MoparMike said:


> My bad, had a brain fart and didn't notice you were measuring from the inside of the baffle.
> 
> I like the idea of bringing the red interior color back into the build. That interior option is one I'd like to see in person since several people have said that pictures don't do it justice.
> 
> One thing about the stock floor panel that I really like is that handle and latch mechanism. For a time I was thinking about how it could be retained, even if I scrapped the panel to get those parts out.


I think you can retain the latch. It is a very simple design, one that with a router I think you could emulate its location.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

After getting the two subs in, and test-fitting / measuring, I realized my path was not a good one. I decided to start over again and this time, build firing up. I don't mind restarting because its just wood, glue, and air brads... not exactly expensive to learn on. 

In other news I got my CSS LD22 "seconds" tweeters in, and within 10 minutes of arrival I had "ruined" them. hahaha. Well I was told this by other experts, that the LD22 is really a Wavecor tweeter, and I guess I had to see this for myself. Lookie:









So it really is a Wavecor tweeter, and the model number is W022WA03 4 ohm









I had to tear into them pretty good


















I have one major concern, maybe the experts here can lend a hand. During the process of tearing into these tweeters, I had one "diassemble" on me, because I was prying in the wrong location. The backplate which contained the magnet donut, some felt padding, etc. all fell apart. I placed all the items back into what looks to be the right position, and then CA glued the parts back together. I tested the coil movement with my hand and I feel no strange rubbing or anything, but I guess I won't be able to tell if I killed it or not until I fire it up and listen. I expected this to be a possible thing. 







I also got my center channel, a somewhat hard speaker to get I guess... Wavecor , cute little thing, hope it fits!


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

Did you run out of depth with having the sub enclosure closer to the back of the car? That hump for the spare tire gets in the way in that area is what I was thinking. Do you still plan to keep the cargo cover panel with firing the subs up?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

MoparMike said:


> Did you run out of depth with having the sub enclosure closer to the back of the car? That hump for the spare tire gets in the way in that area is what I was thinking. Do you still plan to keep the cargo cover panel with firing the subs up?


The issue I was running into was space, mostly. I have enough depth to install the SD3's but I lack enough interior volume. I could only squeeze .83 cubic feet before displacement, and that put me well below my target when we consider those .11 cubes of displacement per sub. This would have still worked sorta (and the option exists to use this box if I have to), but I just wanted to try again. Wood is cheap, meh. The subs do need to be near the front of the area, for magnet depth and width clearance but mostly because the amps need to be accessible and near the back to fit them all. The equipment list is stupid at this point, literally:

MS-8
Arc KS900.6 (this bastard is the reason for all this trouble, btw) powering the front woofers, center, and tweeters
Massive Nano N3 sub amp (powers sub, duh)
Massive Nano NX4 4ch amp (secondary option if needed, Power Acoustik CA1600-D micro-amp) (powering rear doors and D-pillars in a shared output from the MS-8)


SO, I'm going to try, try again with an upfire setup, and yes I'm definitely keeping the factory cover. The big deal about the cover is not the cover itself, but those flaps. I am going to add foam and deadener to the factory panel to keep the resonance out of it. I've also realized that I'll need to cut up the under-panel more but that's pretty easy to do. With the lighting I'm putting in, I also felt like the subs deserve to be highlighted a bit. We'll see how it pans out.

I decided to abandon MDF on this re-build, and instead purchased some sheets of 3/4" pine ply, specifically there's a type at Home Depot that has a bunch of plys (I think it is 11), which works great for our type of work. I like using this stuff, in general. It is very light, very stiff, pretty easy to cut, and it feels more sturdy to me. It is also a bit cheaper than MDF at the moment, so that's cool.


I also just ordered some Alpine SPX PRO tweeters from China tonight, on the cheap. If the Wavecor / LD22 idea fails, I think the SPX PRO's will just slip right in the stock location, much like BradKnob's awesome discovery of Audiofrog tweeters fitting just right. I can't swing the $299 price for those speakers, so I'm hunting (experimenting) with other options any direction I can.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Time for some update pics, the new direction is working!


















Clearance to the subwoofer is about an inch









I decided to mount the subs close together, just for aesthetics (for the top board to come)









You can probably see here that I had use a roundover on the subwoofer cutouts. I cut them to 9 1/4 like it shows in the spec list online, but that's not quite enough. Using the roundover on both sides took care of it.









Just a messy test fit









You can see from these pictures I had to trim the inner plastic trunk panel where it will contact the enclosure. To get this nice and straight, I ran it through my saw very carefully. Worked like a charm!

































Here is the box sealed up. I made it as large as I could, even stealing a little bit of amp space.









I had to cut the inner panel further to clear the subwoofers. I created notches to let the subs fit right underneath, and this works well









To mount my processor, I decided to take advantage of the little cubby space on the driver's side. I made this board and I'm able to use existing threaded studs located at the bottom, to hold the panel

















I used some of my strongest L brackets and created a nice, stable mount for the MS-8

















The processor will fit like this, which will give access to the crucial microphone port, for calibration/tuning purposes.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Minor update, I had a few moments free so I decided to work on the box some more. I first added some (extra) bracing, just to be smart. Deadening mat also added strategically

















I sprayed the inside and outside with rubberized sealer. A great value at Lowes for only ~$3.90 a can, I bought a few JIC. This stuff effectively seals, and has become my preferred way to guarantee a sealed up box, vs. hitting the edges with caulking. It also works a little like a deadener.

























I also added Ultratouch radiant barrier (like a jute padding) to certain areas

















I then added poly batting and loose polyfil


























The padding/insulation/etc should provide an apparent 10-20% extra space, so this new box should sit around 1.1-1.2 cubic feet (apparent) after displacement.


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## PorkCereal (Nov 24, 2009)

Nice idea on the rubberized sealer. Hadnt thought about using it on the box. Actually have a can next to me so i can move my ground to your location in the ST. Still chasing a high pitched noise.

Looking good.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

PorkCereal said:


> Nice idea on the rubberized sealer. Hadnt thought about using it on the box. Actually have a can next to me so i can move my ground to your location in the ST. Still chasing a high pitched noise.
> 
> Looking good.


I've used rubberized sealer a while, and other than the fumes and overspray like most spray paint it is great stuff. I use gloves spraying it though.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

I followed the rabbit trail from your other thread with the GB/Wavecor conversation and ended up here. In for another one of your builds. I look forward to seeing how this turned out. 

And nice to see you "guinea pigging" the Wavecor faceplate removal. I have been curious to know how difficult it might be. I would like to try them someday, but sourcing them without the large face plate is either too difficult or cost prohibitive, depending on the specific model you look at. Let us know how they work out for you.

Oh, and let me know if you end up interested in a second KS900.6 and/or KS600.2 for the build.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

rton20s said:


> I followed the rabbit trail from your other thread with the GB/Wavecor conversation and ended up here. In for another one of your builds. I look forward to seeing how this turned out.
> 
> And nice to see you "guinea pigging" the Wavecor faceplate removal. I have been curious to know how difficult it might be. I would like to try them someday, but sourcing them without the large face plate is either too difficult or cost prohibitive, depending on the specific model you look at. Let us know how they work out for you.
> 
> Oh, and let me know if you end up interested in a second KS900.6 and/or KS600.2 for the build.


I think I may have damaged one of the Wavecors, but I'm not certain. There's really no way for me to tell as I don't have anything rigged for sound with a proper crossover. I figured I'd just try them out, and hope. My alternatives would be to order another pair of the defective ones (the LD22 "factory seconds" are NOT expensive), and try again now that I've done it twice... OR take the Alpine SPX Pro tweets I ordered overseas and try those instead of the Wavecors. Not sure which would sound better, but it would be nice to have options. I also wanted to consider the SI tweeters if I could figure out a safe way to get them out of their shell, to fit them in the factory location. But I'm not sure I want to risk it.


On the order of the KS900.6... I love this amp but it simply will not fit this build. I have to use the Massive Nanos I acquired here on DIYMA recently, to finish this project. The Arc is just too damn big! I'll probably put my KS900.6 back in my Focus ST. I doubt I'll sell it unless someone is in dire need of a mint one and will pay handsomely for it.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I had to pause for a bit, I had to _make a thing_ for someone.

Oh, want to see it? Sure!

So my mother in-law asked if I could fab up some sort of way to store licenses/badges for their work, which is the county jail. They use these to exchange a license/badge for a pass through certain sections of the facility, when folks like lawyers visit. They have to keep tabs on who is where, visually.

3D model quick-drawing of the basic concept









A little further along









And here it goes in reality

















The pieces interlock for strength. BTW I'm using ply here, to keep the cost down. But it is pretty doggone nice ply

















A little repetition and math, got me this









Decided to lean it back, to keep these id's stable


















Cut some endcaps









Sanded and put it away for now, while I figure out what to finish it with. I really want to use white paint, and then patina it like its been in service for a decade.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Finished the side project of the badge holder, painted black to match the other doo-dads that are on the counter in the jail. 









So time for an update I think,

In order to power the rear and D-pillar speakers, I've implemented a Power Acoustik CA4-1600D to handle the job.

This is the stock RCA converter setup that's on the CA4-1600D, I've simply cut the factory wiring and soldered up some RCA's in a Y config.









I'm using Switchcraft short body RCA's, soldered up to Gepco EZ RCA wire









I've soldered in a high current XT60 connector to power up the amp with a quick-disconnect cable. I love using XT60 connectors









Here it is bolted up to the vertical panel, along with the MS-8









Here it is in its planned mounting spot









Fits!


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## glockcoma (Dec 22, 2015)

I like it.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

OK I just completed 89 full sweeps of the factory system (including results of each step of EQ up and down) , and I'm working on compiling, screen-shots, and analyzing of the data gathered. I need to source a place to store high res images and files so I can properly represent the research. Distortion analysis will also be part of this, since I was able to measure and capture that data at the same time (thank you REW!)

I can tell you that my initial analysis is that the distortion (at this test volume) was significant at some frequencies, and significant resonance as seen in the waterfall graphs. What this tells me is that A: the factory speakers aren't too good after all, and B: the vehicle is resonating like crazy, and it is severely screwing up the final response as heard by the ear. As example, I got spikes of more than 7% THD and I was "only" sweeping at around 100dB. I would have sweeped at lower volumes but I really wanted to capture what my ears were hearing when the system is pushed, and that's the door resonance, etc.

I can also say that, despite these bad things, the factory system is "voiced" very well and produces a nice smooth downward slope which is nearly ideal. Also the EQ sections produce predictable bumps up, or down.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Here's the Bass EQ measurements, I tried to keep the mic dead stable, directly in front of me.









Mid EQ measurements, same with the mic









Treb EQ measurements, again keeping mic as steady as possible


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Here's the LF without subwoofer, as swept via several points of measurement approximately around my ears.










LF sweeps averaged together









Left front without subwoofer, distortion profile. 










I'll do some more later, I need to get back out and keep working.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I'll get back to the measurements in a bit, here's an update on the build itself:

So this is the amp rack layout plan









I made these amp boards out of 1/2" MDF. They are beveled, smoothed, and set up with T-nuts to fasten the amp.

















I used a cool crosshatch vinyl for the amp rack parts

















Backside of the board









I decided to stagger the height to clear a few things. I had a clearance issue with the top panel's latch otherwise, plus I needed just a little bit extra width left to right so this got it done. PLUS, it let me add lighting as you'll see very soon.

































Lighting









I wanted a sweeping shape, something that would let the light curve around, instead of being forced around a 90 degree angle. This way the light is smoother and more "floating". 

















Tested the setup, love it!


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

Looking good Lanson!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Next up, I decided to tackle a part I've been dreading, which is doing the power wire run. I didn't how it would go, since the battery is under the passenger seat. Turns out it is semi-easy if you take a good path, and I think I figured out a good one. I started by running the wire through a hole here on the passenger side, under the 3rd row. 

















I ran this through the passenger side, with the rear quarter panel (its HUGE) pulled up and out of the way just enough to safely run the wire. I also ran the RF woofer (14 gauge 2 conductor, sheathed Monoprice wire) since I figured I better do it now.

















I used pry tools to clear the plastic spacer panel and place the wire under. Plenty of room, once you get under that spacer.









This is right behind the front seat, passenger side. The wire tucks under the plastic spacer, and goes right into the battery box. So easy!

























The panels went back together without a hitch.

















The 300 Amp Stinger circuit breaker is also in the battery box. Man this is hard to photograph!








https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a6d839b3127cceec305a547ed600000030O30AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820160619031618176.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D3/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/[img]
[img]https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a6d839b3127cceec30ef6bbf1b00000030O10AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820160619031610773.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

I also augmented the factory ground with 1/0 as well


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Back to measurements

RF sweeps









RF average









RF distortion
https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a6d839b3127cceec31dba81ebe00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820160619044852584.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/[img]




LR sweeps
[img]https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a6d839b3127cceec301cc77e6600000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820160619050207243.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

LR average









LR distortion











RR sweeps









RR Average









RR Distortion


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Left front with subwoofer, sweeps









Left front average with subwoofer









Left front distortion (with subwoofer)









closeup with and without subwoofer (it doesn't do a lot.)



















This is the average of all speakers playing


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

MoparMike said:


> Looking good Lanson!


Thanks man, is yours playing music yet? I'm CLOSE!


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

fourthmeal said:


> Thanks man, is yours playing music yet? I'm CLOSE!


No where close yet....went out of town last weekend for a show here in Texas and this weekend I can't seem to find the time. Decided that I might add a little bit of flair into the build now. Hopefully I'll have something to update soon.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

MoparMike said:


> No where close yet....went out of town last weekend for a show here in Texas and this weekend I can't seem to find the time. Decided that I might add a little bit of flair into the build now. Hopefully I'll have something to update soon.


Nice!

I must say, this is my first time using these dense LED's (the elements are packed right next to each other), it is FAR superior for making smooth, clean light compared with standard LED's which are spaced out quite a bit from each other.

I've got a few more tricks up my sleeve but for the most part, I'm hoping to have functional audio, at least with the factory drivers (while I wait for my tweeters) very soon. And I think I may redirect the beeping effect to some other speakers instead of the D-pillars.


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

fourthmeal said:


> Nice!
> 
> I must say, this is my first time using these dense LED's (the elements are packed right next to each other), it is FAR superior for making smooth, clean light compared with standard LED's which are spaced out quite a bit from each other.
> 
> I've got a few more tricks up my sleeve but for the most part, I'm hoping to have functional audio, at least with the factory drivers (while I wait for my tweeters) very soon. And I think I may redirect the beeping effect to some other speakers instead of the D-pillars.


Sounds good. I ordered some LED strips tonight myself. Also found a local supplier for some cast acrylic that I plan to use for windows into the enclosure and cover plates for the amp rack and processor/distro blocks location. 

Once the Techflex arrives I can run power wire back and begin the wiring layout for the amp rack. The pics you've added tonight should prove helpful with that.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Today I decided to try and get as much down as possible, starting with setting up the ground. I played with a few different options but settled on using the driver's 3rd row seatbelt bracket. I chose this because the passenger side is where the fuel pump is, and is likely be much noisier.

























For MS-8 inputs, I decided to tap into the LF tweeter, RF tweeter, LF woofer, RF woofer, Center, and one of the sub channels. 









The factory amp's outputs are all clipped, and soldered up, this an in-progress shot









For the rear doors and D-pillars, I have this wired up.









The wiring can get real complicated real fast.

























In an attempt to get a grip on all this, I loomed up the MS-8 wiring and got it out of the way









One problem I saw coming was getting a turn-on signal. So I took a remote turn-on device from my stash, and tapped that into one of the subwoofer channel + wires. This turn on device can take speaker or other low voltage inputs and produce a solid 12V out.









Then, I tapped that output to a relay, so I can power up 4 amps, processor, lights, and who knows what. But at least I don't have to worry about a switch 12V anymore.









I re-routed my power wire to the outside of the 3rd row seat, and built a simple panel to hold my power and ground blocks. I used the screw holes from the subwoofer mount.









Next I mounted up my power and ground blocks









Then I laid some butyl rope down on the bottom of my sub box, and installed it, hopefully for the last time. I wanted to keep pressing but I ran out of time.


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## PorkCereal (Nov 24, 2009)

Nicely coming along. I hear ya in the ms8 wiring nest. Same bs in my ST and the Sony amp

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Organized Chaos, lol.


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## PorkCereal (Nov 24, 2009)

fourthmeal said:


> Organized Chaos, lol.


And a wire diagram written down so you don't forget the calibration. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

PorkCereal said:


> And a wire diagram written down so you don't forget the calibration.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Yep, I use Evernote to carefully keep track of all that I'm doing. I went semi-nuts for a while because I had the diagram all separated out on their individual papers...but the trick is the same colors are used in a couple places and I was going nuts keeping track of the inputs and outputs...because they are on the same connectors! There's a C1 connector, has a bunch of pins including main power and main ground (which I used for my relay and remote turn-on box as well), and this C1 has some but not all of the wires needed to intercept the output. C2 is a smaller connector, and has the rest. But C1 also has inputs from the head unit, and that's what screwed me. Same color, but they are on the C2 connector! The only way I was able to get it right was to stop, cut and tape the multi-page wiring diagram together, and try again.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Time for more details I think, now that its powered up and working. 

The pics don't tell the tale, but hey here's some anyway. In case people were wondering, "hey wonder why he hasn't finished yet", well maybe my Focus ST's display will tell you a little about that:









Working late in the evening to prevent death by overheating, I got the subs installed and most of the wiring tidied enough to function. Most the remaining wires are there for future abilities, like running better wire in the doors, and I also have an option of adding new speakers (hidden) to serve as backup beeper speakers. More on that later.

















A quick shot of the power and ground setup, located just in front of the sub box. Yes, it hasn't been tidied up either yet.









So I copied the wav file in the JBL CD to my usb, and ran it through the head unit. I flattened all the EQ, made sure no volume compensation or anything else was turned on, and I ran the fader full foward and center. I was able to get up to volume "24" before the MS-8 complained of a noisy signal. BTW volume "25" made only an occasionally noisy signal at the low frequency noises the test track makes, so it is clear that anything above is clipping and should be avoided at all costs, even with stock speakers on a stock system. On properly referenced music (meaning 0dB headroom on the highest peak on the music), you really want to stay at volume level 24 or under.  This volume is now my max, the rest of the dial is useless.









No more pics since it was dark, but I'll explain a bit what I've done. Everything is loosely installed except the subs, to get them to sound good of course. I ran the input calibration as you can see in the pic above, and with "24" volume I got a successful calibration. Then I set the MS-8 crossovers as such: Infrasonic filter low as it can go which is 20hz, I used 6dB/oct cross - Sub cross 70hz at 24dB/oct, Mid cross 70 to 3500 at 24dB/oct, and rears (a little high and I'll redo it) at 80hz, 24dB/oct. Center is 300hz at 24dB/oct. Once I had those, I then I used the MS-8's noise test to make sure I had all my channels in the right order and also set the basic volume of each speaker by ear with the gains. I had to spend a bit of time getting the D-pillar and rear door speakers to play together at the volumes I wanted, and I made sure to set the D-pillar volume down at least 6-8dB (by ear) compared with the rear doors. But they do play together, and it absolutely does work to do this with the MS-8. The little Power Acoustik micro amp sitting behind the MS-8 is PERFECT for this job, and I'm very happy I decided to try this.

Next after the noise tests were enough to make sure each speaker was roughly the same in volume (by ear), I set up the calibration mic / earphones and did a calibration with the car off, as quiet as possible. After that, I cranked the car back on (110+ degrees, remember), listened for just a bit. I only spent 5 minutes but I very obviously was LOVING what I was hearing. I adjusted the MS-8 master gain, and actually heard ZERO hiss/noise from the entire setup even at 0dB (pretty much max safe) on the MS-8, so it is fair to say the ground point chosen, the way I wired things, and the amps I've chosen to use all seem to be excellent, noiseless choices and so far I'd recommend all of that for any build from anybody. 

I need to do more tweaking with the crossover points with the MS-8, as I want a little more bottom end from the front speakers and a little from the subs. I'm thinking of trying 65hz for sub to woofer, 3200 for the tweeter, and 110hz for the rear speakers, but for an initial calibration it was smokin' good. It gets very loud, stays very clean, and the stage is just fantastic, at least based on initial impressions. And let's not forget that ALL speakers are stock still except for the subs.

What I'm getting now is a hellacious vibration out of the car's spoiler. Not the doors, not any panels, its the spoiler. And the reason appears to be that by crossing the other speakers higher than stock (if they even use a crossover), the front doors are no longer being forced to play sounds that make the doors resonate. But the subs are exciting parts of the car I never thought I'd need to touch, so there's that problem (a good problem, IMO), and it is fixable with some deadener and foam in the right places. When I deaden the tailgate I'll have to pull the spoiler and deaden/seal it up, to get it quiet.



I've got a few days worth of perfecting this before I say "OK guys, do this to your Durango", but initial impressions are that this is working out just fine. I'll also measure/sweep the system with this new calibration and see how it looks compared with stock. I also need to come up with a way to install some small speakers to serve as the factory's original "beep" speakers. I've already routed the factory D-pillar outputs to additional wire, but no speakers are installed yet. That will have to come later. For now, no beeps, just the display on the screen indicating distance (in reverse.)


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice build!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Alright tonight I learned quite a bit more about how we should handle the Durango. For one, i had to cut the subwoofer "in" leads to the MS-8, and re-calibrate. Once I got my "listening ears" on and started playing music through the system, I realized that the bass response was WAY off the pace and even by tweaking down the EQ built into the MS-8, I was at least 20dB off my target so I was left to try a desperate measure. I snipped the subwoofer input leads that I provided to the MS-8, and then re-calibrated. This got it much closer to a reasonable response and it also had an unexpected bonus which I'll cover next.

I discovered that with the subwoofer input disconnected, my new safe maximum volume is 32, not 24. This means that the sub output was distorting far sooner than the rest of the system. Now I can get most of the head unit's volume range to work! 








And this is what I'm getting now with 32 volume









So for this calibration run, I went with 20hz infrasonic at 6dB, woofer cross 65hz, midrange 3200, center 280 and rears 110 (all 24dB/oct). 

OK so let's talk about distortion. First, pay no mind to the response plot here, this is a single measurement just to get a distortion impression, not an EQ impression. The interesting thing about changing this setup from stock is the drastic drop in distortion. My theory is that there a few reasons for this as a combination of three things. First is a significant distortion reduction (despite volume being same or a bit louder than my previous sampling), due to the front speakers crossover at 65hz, the fronts are not resonating the doors much at all. Second, I believe my Sundown subs in the enclosure I made produces a nice, clean, distortion-free response. Third, I think the amps I'm using are producing less distortion than the stock amp when stressed. In this plot the highest distortion measured was about 2.4% at about 52hz. Completely acceptable. 









So for these measurements I am running the entire front stage at full front full center, and so these sweeps are a combined L, R, Center, and sub result. The rear speakers are also "on" but they are, by nature, not playing anything in phase (just out of phase "ambient" sounds, mostly) so they shouldn't interfere with the response. 

For all of these, because I'm running both left and right at the same time, I measured with 3 sweeps per each side next to my ears with the mic moved a bit each time, so that's 6 sweeps per EQ attempt. 

This is after the MS-8 has auto-EQ'd, but everything else is flat. A little rough!









Here's what it looks like on my EQ target page









I began by cutting and boosting to get a ballpark change result out of the EQ sweep.








This is my result









A bit more tweaking and










EQ 3


















EQ 4


















EQ 5

























I smoothed it out just a bit further, I'm pretty happy with this!








This is the EQ it took to get there









So this is where I'm at on the EQ at present. I went ahead and played some music to make sure it sounded good compared with the initial setup, and sure as heck it definitely did. It is crisp and smooth, and really easy to listen to. 

Next up, I need to track down a noise I picked up while I was tweaking the inputs to the MS-8, as I don't recall hearing it prior. It is a mild squeal which makes its tone even with the engine off. I had to tear up my build back in the trunk to reach the wiring, so that may be the reason. Other than that, I'm pleased. I need to reconstruct the trunk but the process is moving along pretty well.


To recap, do not pull a signal from the subwoofer outputs, just go with left and right tweeters, left and right woofers, and maybe center channel (I pulled center just in case.)


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## adrianp89 (Oct 14, 2007)

Great info here. When grabbing only the fronts for signal do your parking sensors still come through the speakers? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

the727kid said:


> Great info here. When grabbing only the fronts for signal do your parking sensors still come through the speakers?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Excellent question, I've actually routed wiring from the D-pillar amplifier outputs to yet-unconnected speaker wire. The speakers themselves are powered but the output is strictly from the MS-8 (and the Power Acoustik mini amp.)

So currently the beeps don't come through, but if I connect that wire, I believe I'll get them back. My plan was to hook up some simple speakers (or maybe just speaker, not sure I need both) and get the beeps that way.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Alright, now that we know the system works and has a good basic tune, I set out to make it look decent and be safe for traveling. I tore the whole thing down and rebuilt it, this time "for real."









Gettin' there









I reorganized the wiring to the MS-8 / Power Acoustik micro-amp as well, and I was able to bolt it down safely. Nevermind the factory wiring there, it will be out of the way in a bit.









This is now what the power and ground distribution section looks like.
















I used split loom to contain all the powers and grounds









I added washers to what remains of the factory panel, and I used Ensolite foam all over potential contact points

















In an effort to lock down this panel, I used screws and washers to secure it to the box.









And this is what it looks like all done!

















And all powered up and running.









Now this of course is not the end, it is more like a stopping point for a bit. I will be working on the back end beautification, specifically mating the factory panel parts I cut up to some unknown wood shape, via fiberglass. Also I'll be building up the doors and center channel over the next few weeks. But for now, the system is operational, it sounds good, and the car is usable as a daily driver.


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

Nice progress Lanson!


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice and stealthy!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Thanks guys! I have no idea how I'm going to finish this one off.. LOL.


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## 1FinalInstall (Oct 13, 2013)

Looks very nice!


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## dengland (May 25, 2014)

Subbed! Nice work.

In the 2014 Ram 1500, I chose 6 inputs to the MS-8 :

1 Dash Left
2 Door Front Left
3 
4 Dash Right 
5 Door Front Right
6 Door Rear Left
7 Door Rear Right

That gave me front and rear of the ParkSense tones. It has been awhile now, but I believe the Factory configuration would give a tone for each corner of the vehicle that was detected to be close to something (e.g. RR vs FL). Since the MS 8 sums all left and all right, I basically get a tone throughout the cabin.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

dengland said:


> Subbed! Nice work.
> 
> In the 2014 Ram 1500, I chose 6 inputs to the MS-8 :
> 
> ...


Thank you!
In the case of the Durango, it uses the D-pillar speakers and not the rear speakers to emit this tone. So I went a different route to get it. I'd totally be OK with the MS-8 doing the tone through the car, but I didn't want to tap the D-pillars just for the MS-8 to get that. So I went around that.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

OK, time for a big update!

First, crazy flooding and hailstorms hit Vegas. No damage to the Durango that I can see though.









Right after that crazy weather let off, I started plotting my door install.

This is the door after the panel is pulled.









This is the factory 6x9 front woofer. A poly-cone, basic and simple driver.


























And now, pics of something that I was never able to get from other research I've done so far. Actual depth shots! A tick over 3 1/2" is what we have, btw. There's slightly more depth available near the bottom of the speaker opening.

















My planned replacement fits the factory location with ZERO modification. And this, ladies and mostly gentlemen is a first for me in years. Usually my mission is to install huge speakers in factory locations to maximize cone area, but with big, bad 6x9's in front I'm where I want to be with no extra work.

















This new guy is more beefy, but only by a little bit at least in external dimensions. But these Image Dynamics X69 units have neodymium magnets so they cheat a little on size.

















Now let's shift to the tweeters and the mounts for them. This part was FUN!
They were fun to get out of the car, for one. And fun to work on without scratching or damaging, due to the unwieldy size. 








Factory location, with the inner ring mount removed.









This is the opening, 1.628"









The factory cheap tweeter, 1.441"









My gameplan









To be continued shortly.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

This is the part that comes out of the stock tweeter mount.
















1.473" inner








1.624" outer









This is my backup plan, which is to install a bare Wavecor 22mm chambered tweeter. Not gonna work without surgery!









But it WOULD work if I needed it.









There's an inner lip of the tweeter mount, and that's 1.817". 









The tweeter I really want to use is 1.889". Soooo, a little big then?









But...it is CLOSE, so let's see if we can make it fit.









So how I did it was simple. I took a sanding drum and simply ran it inside of the mount until I got the tweeter to fit! And if I do say so myself, I think it fits like stock.

























I laid Ensolite peel-and-stick foam underneath, and I added connectors









Next up, deadening the door.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Hey look, the factory installed deadener already. Ha.








https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a6d923b3127cceecd0cb3dced700000030O30AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820160703042349561.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D3/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/[img]

I improved upon that
[img]https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a6d923b3127cceecd03ec38ecb00000030O30AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820160703042344597.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D3/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

































Factory panel









Deadened up









I also laid Ensolite around the speaker to act as a gasket. This is a shot as viewed through the door after re-installation. The Ensolite foam "gasket" can be seen here.

















Driver's side DONE









Passenger coming up









At this point, I utterly ran out of light and time, so I just did it without pics. But hey, I think you guys get the idea. The doors are deadened and everything is good. I love these tweeters, now that I've taken the plunge to install them.

















So happy with this setup, btw!


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

I love the K.I.S.S. method!


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## dengland (May 25, 2014)

Do you have frequency traces for the factory 6x9 vs the Image Dynamics X69 installed in the doors?

Somewhere I have the same factory 6x9s vs the Silver Flutes.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

BP1Fanatic said:


> I love the K.I.S.S. method!


LOL, I'm not sure I can call 4 amps, a processor, and 5.1 (+2) surround simple, but I will agree with it being somewhat simple to implement the front stage upgrade.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

dengland said:


> Do you have frequency traces for the factory 6x9 vs the Image Dynamics X69 installed in the doors?
> 
> Somewhere I have the same factory 6x9s vs the Silver Flutes.


I've not run new sweeps yet with the ID's, as I was also waiting to get my center finished (which just happened about 30 minutes ago, uploading pics now.) But I definitely would say the ID's are way better than stock. I had to tone down the EQ (level it out some) to get the whole system to sound closer to my curve (by ear, so I'm approximating heavily here.) But I could suddenly hear much better detail throughout everything I played so I suspect the response is better but will find out soon I hope. My midbass is WAY better, as is the blending of the high end.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Today I got the center channel done. This was cake compared with the rest of this build. This went quickly!

The new speaker is a Wavecor 3.5" 4 ohm unit. Fantastic build quality, and very shallow which worked out great here.

















I quickly was able to devise a functional baffle









Yep, that was easy









I covered it with Ensolite, and screwed the new speaker in.

















I cut the factory wiring and crimped some connectors









Mounted up and done! 










This little guy sound AMAZING, even without tuning so far. I'm just floored by how much more detail I have from the front end. I love this little speaker's sound. It was well worth the ~$50, and the trouble to get it.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Well, now that my front stage has been put together, my plan is this:

Measure the new speakers with and without processing, to understand the effect of these new drivers and what the MS-8 is doing. I'll run detailed sweeps of everything I can, so the new setup is understood well. 

I don't plan on doing anything to the rear speakers. I've listened to what the MS-8 is doing with all of them and it is just feeding the ambient out of phase sounds, which need to be diffuse and "simple", so the factory speakers will serve very well here. I just love how the 3.5" D-pillars and rear speakers work together to make an awesome rear ambient stage. 

The sub stage is good to go as well, but I may have to reinforce the factory floor with something because at very high volume, I can rattle the damn thing like it is now. I've deadened it and added Ensolite, but that doesn't stop it from getting excited when the system is pushed. I've decided that if I'm showing the system off at very high volumes, I'll just have to open the floor door in those moments.

As far as finishing plans, I will be working on making the factory floor panel innards (what's left of it) mate up with some sort of wood form, something that I can make pretty attractive, probably with red matching vinyl. That will definitely be a full weekend or more to do that. Lighting (more of it) will be implemented along the way. Maybe some cooling fans too, not sure. 

After all of that, I think this system will be done and ready to go.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Very cool Lanson. You've made some quick progress on this one. Good to see that even if you aren't using the Wavecor tweeters that the center channel is working out for you. I'm still trying to figure out somewhere that I can use my FR070s.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

If you have the other wavecor 3.5 and want to sell it let me know. I will need a center once I start my build.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I love what Wavecor is doing so far, and I just love that center speaker. I would have used those 22mm tweets but honestly, I scored those Alpine ring radiators here Pair 2pcs Alpine HiEnd 28mm Dome Neo Magnet XT25 Tweeter 4ohm 50W | eBay and at that price, I felt like I was stealing them. I used to have a set of SPX Pro components way back in 2008, and I just loved the tweeter of the set. Now that I have them again, I am reminded at how good they are. I might just snag another pair "JIC".

SQLnovice, I just bought ONE of these guys off the CSS site on eBay. It took a little bit but they got it to me in a couple weeks I think it was. It was about $50 for the one. 


Wavecor needs to start making car audio stuff STAT. Super-nice quality, and I bet it would all sound fantastic.


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks for the info. Another excellent build.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Wavecor does have an actual car audio line, or at least they used to. Availability in the US is pretty much nonexistent. There is also a European brand exact! - mobile audio-systeme that uses a lot of Wavecor drivers, but I don't think you can find it in the US. CSS of course sells several Wavecor drivers under their own brand. Otherwise, Solen has a pretty decent selection of Wavecor drivers and I believe they will ship to the US.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Wavecor does have an actual car audio line, or at least they used to. Availability in the US is pretty much nonexistent. There is also a European brand exact! - mobile audio-systeme that uses a lot of Wavecor drivers, but I don't think you can find it in the US. CSS of course sells several Wavecor drivers under their own brand. Otherwise, Solen has a pretty decent selection of Wavecor drivers and I believe they will ship to the US.


Look what I found!

Featured Products

They have all Wavecor stuff, including some car audio woofers. Wish they'd get those tweeters in though. Neat, not sure who they are or if they are legit or not, but still, neat.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

fourthmeal said:


> Look what I found!
> 
> Featured Products
> 
> They have all Wavecor stuff, including some car audio woofers. Wish they'd get those tweeters in though. Neat, not sure who they are or if they are legit or not, but still, neat.


Cool. I'd seen that site before. I think they used to be listed as an official dealer on the Wavecor page, but have since been removed. I've never dealt with them, but if they actually had product in stock, that would be nice. 

Funny though that they don't have the car audio kit or tweeters on their site. Car component sets


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Cool. I'd seen that site before. I think they used to be listed as an official dealer on the Wavecor page, but have since been removed. I've never dealt with them, but if they actually had product in stock, that would be nice.
> 
> Funny though that they don't have the car audio kit or tweeters on their site. Car component sets


True, they are missing critical Wavecor bits. 


The FR090WA01 driver is just a great piece though. This speaker makes the first time I've used a full-ranger and actually decided against adding a tweeter on the top end. Just a fantastic sound once you get 10-20 degrees off-angle, without any EQ work. With EQ, you can get whatever you want, the speaker loves the top end by what I can tell. I pushed it really hard while demoing the system for a co-worker a little while ago today, and it had no issue keeping up. This little guy is a gem, and if a standard 3.5" driver fits in a factory location, it is likely this one will too. The cone is also a little less sensitive than the FR88 and 89, which like to dent at the slightest touch.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Well I got a chance to tune the system since installing the new drivers, but my results are unclear. I think I have a phase problem between the door woofers and sub, so tonight I'm going to swap phase and re-measure. Note here:










That dip at ~65hz is exactly where the midbass and sub cross point is in the MS-8. 

Also, I noticed I have a distortion spike at ~220hz, and I think I may be crossing the Wavecor center too low and causing it to get out of it happy range. Right now my cross point is 180hz but I think I'm going to try 280hz or so, and see how that goes. When doing sweeps it is hard to leave out the center without breaking into the system and unplugging things, which isn't a great idea with how tight-fitting everything in the trunk is.

Other than a few issues like that, the ID and Alpine combo is just awesome. They seem to get along with each other very well. I've got a cross point of 3.2k on those and that's pretty clean by what I can tell.

Oh and despite the weird things with phase going on, I was able to do this:








But it doesn't sound as good as it should, so I have more work to do.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

OK, update time, I'm probably going to redo the trunk design (downfire or rebuild top side out of wood, undecided.) The reason is I can't kill the insane resonance of the cover panel when it is over the subs, and so for now the panel is flipped open anytime I'm playing the system at a decent volume.
Time for some deadening work.

















Underside of the spare tire area

















I went with near complete coverage under there


















I ended up breaking one of the handles while trying to remove the tailgate panel. They are very brittle, but they must be removed to clear the panel









But the panel came loose after some convincing

















Discovered that my spoiler was not actually fully bolted down. This is my left (driver's) side








And the passenger side with the nut not installed. I found the nut in the metal of the tailgate, and I installed that.









I added deadener in the critical flat areas, and especially in places inside the panel that could be prone to resonate
















https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a6d931b3127cceecc00f6af79d00000030O00AcOWjRo1btG QPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820160711002601423.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/[img]

Plastic panels were treated the same
[img]https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a6d931b3127cceecc1d5dfd70900000030O00AcOWjRo1btG QPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820160711002558834.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/
https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a6d931b3127cceecc0af18f7bf00000030O00AcOWjRo1btG QPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820160711002554624.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/[img]
[img]https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a6d931b3127cceecc08104768400000030O10AcOWjRo1btG QPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820160711002552136.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/









While I was at it, I swapped my reverse lights for some strong Samsung white LED's, and the tailgate lights were swapped for some decent leftover LED's from my stash









The handle was epoxied to repair, and reinstalled.


















I tested outside resonance with Tipper songs, which get pretty aggressive on the bass side. Here's a youtube video of the metal resonance (thankfully not audible), after I got rid of the other rattles. 



 I had to stuff Ensolite foam in between the spoiler and the rear hatch area to eliminate the sound. That is, after I bolted the spoiler back down. 


So with the system at full tilt, I ran around the car listening for anything rattling and found (after the spoiler was handled) nothing could be heard outside other than a smidgen of what was inside, certainly no buzzing or rattling. I'm extremely pleased with the lack of outside resonance, which is just tacky I think. Inside, the car is quite loud full-range, and the front stage fully keeps up with the sub stage, no question. It is fairly clean but I am certain the factory head unit is holding the system back a bit. In the future, if someone invents an aftermarket solution to the OEM design that loses nothing, I might invest in it. 

Back to the trunk, I've been talking with MoparMike in his thread and pretty much determined he was on the right path and I was on the wrong one, regarding downfiring subs vs. upfiring, and regarding keeping the trunk cover panel and ditching it. The cover panel simply resonates far too much, and I can't stop it other than to remove it. For now, the panel is flipped open to listen to music, but that's not stealth in the slightest. I will be remaking the whole trunk design, likely to a downfiring setup, to get my intended results of a resonance-free system. It isn't fun starting from scratch again but it must be done, I think. 

I had to reverse the phase on the sub to get rid of a nasty cancellation node occurring at the crossover point. That was an interesting problem, since I kept electrical phase consistent as I built this system, but somewhere along the way, probably in the doors, something acoustically fell out of phase at the listening point. I have graphs and graphs of this happening. Here, I'll show you my pics I took as I was tuning.

So this is after a re-calibration to 70hz cross point on the sub/woofers, 3k for the tweeters, and the center now at 260hz. No other EQ work besides adding some extra volume to the mid-woofers via the gains, and you can see that in the increased output of the midrange up to the cross point of the tweeters








A major boost around the sub/mid cross point as you can see


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Darn thing isn't going away with more EQ, but I was able to minimize it by raising the main volume up and cutting critical areas down

































I wasn't happy with this so I decided to re-tune, this time with the sub inversed.

































This is where I stopped, I'm pretty happy with this sound. I think my limit is now just the subwoofer box itself (too small to be ideal), but it is an acceptable limit to have.


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Excellent tuning!


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

fourthmeal said:


> OK, update time, I'm probably going to redo the trunk design (downfire or rebuild top side out of wood, undecided.) The reason is I can't kill the insane resonance of the cover panel when it is over the subs, and so for now the panel is flipped open anytime I'm playing the system at a decent volume.
> Time for some deadening work.
> 
> I tested outside resonance with Tipper songs, which get pretty aggressive on the bass side. Here's a youtube video of the metal resonance (thankfully not audible), after I got rid of the other rattles.
> ...


my factory cover made me crazy too so I figure I will give you a pointer. Chrysler uses crappy adhesive to glue the factory fabric to that cover. You can carefully remove it from the plastic cover and reuse it to cover the new wooden panel. The carpet is acoustically transparent so you wont lose hardly any output. I could not find the exact matching fabric anywhere so it was a no brainer to reuse the factory stuff for me. Then you will only need to make a fake handle to cover that hole.

Heres my mdf cover with perf grills and a finished shot minus the fake handle then a shot of what lurks beneath the new cover


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## BP1Fanatic (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice stealth installation ndm!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Nice work man!

I think I have a carpet match, basically a deep charcoal black. It is within a shade or two. I actually thought about leaving it out a couple days in the sun to fade it a tad, even. 

I really like your idea though, I may implement something along those lines

But for me, the biggest thing to work through is remaking the flaps to handle the 3rd row movement from up, to flipped down. The factory panel's little flaps are going to be tricky to reproduce. I may just have to deal with those holes and hide them with a nice heavy protective trunk mat.



ndm said:


> my factory cover made me crazy too so I figure I will give you a pointer. Chrysler uses crappy adhesive to glue the factory fabric to that cover. You can carefully remove it from the plastic cover and reuse it to cover the new wooden panel. The carpet is acoustically transparent so you wont lose hardly any output. I could not find the exact matching fabric anywhere so it was a no brainer to reuse the factory stuff for me. Then you will only need to make a fake handle to cover that hole.
> 
> Heres my mdf cover with perf grills and a finished shot minus the fake handle then a shot of what lurks beneath the new cover


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## Juice75 (Sep 18, 2010)

Fourthmeal - what kind of wood did you use for the bottom and sides of your box? Didn't look like MDF.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Juice75 said:


> Fourthmeal - what kind of wood did you use for the bottom and sides of your box? Didn't look like MDF.


Correct, it is a decent plywood. I think it is 13 layer or 11 layer, can't remember. It isn't birch but it does feel and look a lot like a good piece of birch ply. I think it is pine ply.

That said, I'll be redoing the enclosure soon, and either use the same wood or go MDF, depending on a few things. If you use a material like this, you have to seal the inside of the enclosure for sure. It is quite light though!


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## Juice75 (Sep 18, 2010)

Redoing the box? Are you going to a downfire box?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Juice75 said:


> Redoing the box? Are you going to a downfire box?


I'm going to base my decision on MoparMike's downfire results. We've been borrowing ideas from each other and following a natural flow to how the Durango wants to be built, and we deviated with upfire vs. downfire. Since mine is good minus the heavy resonance up top (and a box that needs to be stronger for the power used), I figured I'd wait to see how his turns out before committing. Else, I'll build a top section of dense wood (like NDM but I have to build mine flush with the top, instead of above it), and go with that. 

Plus I'm exhausted, all the detail jobs I've been doing lately is wearing me out, along with the 110+ degree heat.


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

fourthmeal said:


> I'm going to base my decision on MoparMike's downfire results. We've been borrowing ideas from each other and following a natural flow to how the Durango wants to be built, and we deviated with upfire vs. downfire. Since mine is good minus the heavy resonance up top (and a box that needs to be stronger for the power used), I figured I'd wait to see how his turns out before committing. Else, I'll build a top section of dense wood (like NDM but I have to build mine flush with the top, instead of above it), and go with that.
> 
> Plus I'm exhausted, all the detail jobs I've been doing lately is wearing me out, along with the 110+ degree heat.


I'll let you know how it's going once I have them playing. It shouldn't be much longer.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Time for a little update to my system. I started noticing scratchiness in the coils on both of my speakers up front, and well... _that's not how I roll_. I think the Image Dynamics X69's I have are prone to rusting from the inside, so flakes of debris like rust particles get stuck in the coil gap and are almost impossible to remove. They are only about 2 years old and I live in the desert, so I'm definitely not going to trust ID for door speakers again. I decided to upgrade, but I didn't want to give up the 6x9 size. I ended up talking with Jerry Niebur on the forums and he set me up with Audiofrog GS690 front woofers. And while we were talking it through, I decided to try a new tweeter to match, the GS10. Now my Alpine SPX tweeters are just fine, but sometimes you just have to try a matching stage to see what the designer's plan was, so that's what I did Here's some pics

GS10's









GS690's









The door back apart. Comment: Dodge makes DAMN fine doors for the Durango at least. I think its the Mercedes thing rubbing off, because these doors have been taken apart and put back together at least 5 times, and they are still drum-tight, all clips work, etc. I just love that, some car doors can barely come apart once before you have to replace clips left and right.
Lots of deadening on these doors, always chasing rattles until they die.









These are the GS690's. What a gorgeous design, no rear vent so they won't be a susceptible to weather damage like the ID's I think. In fact, Audiofrog speakers seem built from the ground up to survive in car audio conditions. We'll see over time, but I have a lot of respect for Andy and his designs, so I'm sure they'll be great. 

















Well...that was easy!









This will get a bit more difficult. This is the hole that I had to hog out for my SPX tweeters to fit the factory spot. This has doomed these panels, because the AF tweeters are just mm's smaller.









They totally fit, but the cutout is just about a mm too big.


















I decided to press forward with the rebuild, I'll order up some replacement panels later. I added some 1/8" neoprene to the door panel while I was in there.









Other side of the door ready to go already









Other side done as well









So just playing them with the tune the ID's have, I can tell I already like these a LOT. I need to recal the MS-8 so these speaker's response is better matched with the rest of the system, but it is already very close. The ID's were really flat, clean, and efficient speakers as well so I expect minimal changres. I might even just redo the EQ without recalibrating the whole system over again, if I can just do that.

So far, really enjoy these speakers, and highly recommend them for our ride! Get the component set with the crossover if you have no intention of going active like I have here, or you can upgrade to an even better tweeter (the GB10) if you want to, but I wanted to try the matched GS set before considering that and I'm glad I've made this choice so far. Its clear that no corners were cut making either set.


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

Curious to know how you like these vs the ID's in the midbass department?


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Just in case anyone is trolling through here like I was, the Metra 82-6601 kit will allow you to painlessly mount 6.5/6.75" speakers in the rear door. Just used for some Focals.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Would you be able to send me the wiring diagram I see in one of your photos?


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## dengland (May 25, 2014)

fourthmeal said:


> The door back apart. Comment: Dodge makes DAMN fine doors for the Durango at least. I think its the Mercedes thing rubbing off, because these doors have been taken apart and put back together at least 5 times, and they are still drum-tight, all clips work, etc. I just love that, some car doors can barely come apart once before you have to replace clips left and right.
> Lots of deadening on these doors, always chasing rattles until they die.


Looks really good. I have a couple of questions as I try to compare to my RAM 1500 audio journey.

You have some sort of a weather stripping gasket on the mounting frame for the 6x9s (Red circle). What is that? The blue circle is giving me fits on my driver's door. It is causing a big suckout at 145 Hz with a buzzing noise. It looks like you did NOT expose the window in your soundproofing efforts. I started to and got scared. The MVL might be a good approach for me. Where did you get it and how was it attached? 

I hate my 6x9 to 6.5 adapter. I might have to look at the Frog 6x9s. 

Thanks


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

sirbOOm said:


> Would you be able to send me the wiring diagram I see in one of your photos?


Which picture? I can see if there's a higher-rez one. Probably don't have the actual diagram sitting around any more?


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

The red-circled item is Ensolite foam (from RAAM Audio), useful for many things but in this instance you are seeing a 6x9 speaker gasket I quickly laid down with a thin strip of Ensolite.

Regarding pulling the whole panel to get the window exposed, nope I definitely didn't do that. I just reached in the access holes and placed deadener best I could. I have long skinny arms so I just went for it. One time, I pulled one of these panels apart (on a Speed3 build) and it took AGES for me to put it back into position. The reason being, it had all the important window regulator stuff attached and the minute I detached it, all alignments for the window went to ****, and it had all the weight of the glass pushing down on the panel, which made it really hard to handle to align at the same time. I haven't noticed any suckout, maybe the 6x9's just have it better off in there compared with 6.5's?

See for me, I can't stand going down in speaker size. 6x9 is an awesome size. Area of an 8 and directivity of a 6! It's really ideal for a single driver.

I didn't use MLV in these doors (because they were already very heavy with the deadening I did), but if you use MLV, you want to leave it decoupled and limp. sounddeadenershowdown.com has great ideas about MLV.



dengland said:


> Looks really good. I have a couple of questions as I try to compare to my RAM 1500 audio journey.
> 
> You have some sort of a weather stripping gasket on the mounting frame for the 6x9s (Red circle). What is that? The blue circle is giving me fits on my driver's door. It is causing a big suckout at 145 Hz with a buzzing noise. It looks like you did NOT expose the window in your soundproofing efforts. I started to and got scared. The MVL might be a good approach for me. Where did you get it and how was it attached?
> 
> ...


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## dengland (May 25, 2014)

fourthmeal said:


> Today I decided to try and get as much down as possible, starting with setting up the ground. I played with a few different options but settled on using the driver's 3rd row seatbelt bracket. I chose this because the passenger side is where the fuel pump is, and is likely be much noisier.


I think he is talking about this one ^ in post 46.


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## dengland (May 25, 2014)

fourthmeal said:


>



What am I seeing here ^ ? Is that factory?



fourthmeal said:


> The red-circled item is Ensolite foam (from RAAM Audio), useful for many things but in this instance you are seeing a 6x9 speaker gasket I quickly laid down with a thin strip of Ensolite.
> 
> Regarding pulling the whole panel to get the window exposed, nope I definitely didn't do that. I just reached in the access holes and placed deadener best I could. I have long skinny arms so I just went for it. One time, I pulled one of these panels apart (on a Speed3 build) and it took AGES for me to put it back into position. The reason being, it had all the important window regulator stuff attached and the minute I detached it, all alignments for the window went to ****, and it had all the weight of the glass pushing down on the panel, which made it really hard to handle to align at the same time. I haven't noticed any suckout, maybe the 6x9's just have it better off in there compared with 6.5's?
> 
> ...


Thanks for confirming that it was a good plan NOT to go further than I did into the door. 

Thanks also for the links.


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

Dodge puts a notable amount of dampner on the outer metal already. I just said... "good enuf". The poster who's getting rattling from that electronic module; I put speaker gasket foam in-between anything that I thought might rattle and the surface below it including the door handle itself. Thus far, I have one rare buzz and nothing coming from that area. We'll see what happens as more power gets piped to speakers in this thing...


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Does this:

Mopar Connection Repair Kit

Or this:

Mopar Connection Repair Kit

Help?


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

chithead said:


> Does this:
> 
> Mopar Connection Repair Kit
> 
> ...


Sure does! Thank you. (Now I am wishing for the right tool to make pinned connections at the door hinge, hint hint... just kidding.)

Also confirms that my front 6x9s are wired opposite polarity from this data, as I was able to deduce from other info online, at least by wire color code. Might explain why changing the polarity of the center channel produced an actual center stage all of a sudden. My tweeters are correct polarity, though, as well as the center channel (again, according to wire colors).

Something has just always been "off sounding" with the factory stereo, I guess this incorrect polarity issue could be the reason why...


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

dengland said:


> I think he is talking about this one ^ in post 46.


Oh shoot, I don't think I have that big thing anymore. I'll have to look but no instant promises.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

dengland said:


> What am I seeing here ^ ? Is that factory?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is 1/4" Neoprene foam I got from the foamfactory.com website. I love that stuff. No MLV in these doors, but lots and lots of Kolossus which has proven to be a great deadener.

Yeah the 6x9 factory speaker opening makes for a great opening to stick your hand and maneuver. I was amazed I had the space I did.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

sirbOOm said:


> Sure does! Thank you. (Now I am wishing for the right tool to make pinned connections at the door hinge, hint hint... just kidding.)
> 
> Also confirms that my front 6x9s are wired opposite polarity from this data, as I was able to deduce from other info online, at least by wire color code. Might explain why changing the polarity of the center channel produced an actual center stage all of a sudden. My tweeters are correct polarity, though, as well as the center channel (again, according to wire colors).
> 
> Something has just always been "off sounding" with the factory stereo, I guess this incorrect polarity issue could be the reason why...


I had HUGE polarity issues in the Durango, you may be 100% right. It got to the point where I just started swapping polarities at the amp-side by pulling over mid-drive, swapping wires, getting back in, and noting differences, just ignoring the colors. If you go way back to my first seutp with the X69's, you'll see I had several calibration runs measured, which didn't look right at all. Eventually it worked out to just screw the colors and go for the ear. Maybe phase was doing something too, as in relative phase. Its a big, long vehicle so there's gotta be a cancellation wave in there.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

I like this thread.


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## CAV3MAN (4 mo ago)

So I know this is an old thread but just reading through it sounds like it'll be pretty useful. Is there a reason all of these photos are no longer available??


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