# Metal and SQ paradox



## ShaneInMN

Metal always sounded pretty damn good in my computer speakers or headphones, now that I'm playing back all those old classic albums in my car, the production of these albums really sucks! I know metal was more about attitude and volume than the quality of the sound.

I was listening to Opeth Ghost Reveries on the way into work this morning and was completely floored. The production on that album is one of the best that I have ever heard. I'm not even sure what to compare it with, but it is an SQ metal album of the ages.

What are some of your favorite metal albums SQ wise? I really want to expand my collection, but I think the selection is going to be few and far between.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Some Slayer is well recorded, Nile is generally well recorded. Some Arch Enemy is well recorded. 

Its out there, but it takes work to find the better ones.


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## Alrojoca

Not sure of I'm right or not, but I kind of find the same issue. I think a sub that is more musical and clear will solve this issue, also turn off the loudness if It is set on the HU. 
Bigger subs that are 10" or bigger in sealed boxes may affect the SQ also, ported may sound better. Just my thoughts based or recent experience going to a smaller ported sub.


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## strakele

Most Dream Theater albums are recorded well. Metallica's new Through the Never live album kicks ass. Megadeth is usually pretty good. And yeah I've heard Opeth is well recorded but I hardly ever listen to them.

But you're right, a lot of metal is compressed to hell.


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## Alrojoca

I listen to DT, I did not find their recordings as clear and good but found them more enjoyable with a ported better sub. Same thing great on the computer and headsets not as good in the car but better with a better sub.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Be careful which megadeth album you get though. For instance, new versions of Countdown To Extinction are super compressed compared to the older versions. Also, the Megadeth albums that are on hdtracks.com are mastered much better. 

I forgot about the new metallica album, easily their best mastered album in years.


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## BuickGN

Alrojoca said:


> Not sure of I'm right or not, but I kind of find the same issue. I think a sub that is more musical and clear will solve this issue, also turn off the loudness if It is set on the HU.
> Bigger subs that are 10" or bigger in sealed boxes may affect the SQ also, ported may sound better. Just my thoughts based or recent experience going to a smaller ported sub.


I'm not sure if this is what you meant but bigger has always sounded better on metal or whatever. Even though not a lot of excursion is usually required, a 15 just reproduces the music more effortlessly than an equivalent 10.


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## fcarpio

Both albums by Animalas as Leader sound pretty good. Others worth mentioning are Gordian Knot (1st), A Perfect Circle (banana slug), Tool (10,000 Days), Exivious (1st), Rush (They have some well recorded), Scale the Summit (Carving Desert Canyons) and last but not least Metallica (Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets). Those are just a few of the top of my head.

Porcupine Tree has very nice recordings, if you can qualify them as metal...


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## trumpet

If the music sounds great except in the car then it's the car that needs work, in my opinion. Most of my favorite music is metal or hard rock, and there's very little of my collection that I will turn down because of poor production quality. Opeth does tend to put out some amazing sounding music. I like that you can tell they did something different with Heritage compared to older albums, but it still sounds great.

If certain music falls on its face in your car but it's fine in headphones maybe you're running into power compression, or frequency response errors you've yet to address. Ultimately, if you think the music should sound better then it makes sense to blame the car, and that can be from a lot of problems. Otherwise adjust your expectations(lower your standards) and rock out. 

Some bands I'm really into now are Protest the Hero, Nothing More, Gojira, Meshuggah, Extol. I would say the production quality is about average with these bands, meaning it's loud and clear but not much for dynamic range. No instrument or vocal part is left untouched in the mastering process, and I'm totally fine with that.


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## ATOMICTECH62

Pantera's "Cowboy's from hell"is a must have cd.The sound quality is great and the impact on the bass is so intense I can only take it for so long.


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## ShaneInMN

ATOMICTECH62 said:


> Pantera's "Cowboy's from hell"is a must have cd.The sound quality is great and the impact on the bass is so intense I can only take it for so long.


Vulgar Display of Power was another good one, I was disappointed with the production on Far Beyond Driven though.


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## Hanatsu

I have a few albums which sounds pretty decent to me in the car (dunno if you guys define some of them as metal though);

*Within Temptation - The Unforgiving (NL-2011)
*Powerman 5000 - Somewhere On The Other Side Of Nowhere (US-2009)
*Rage Against The Machine - Rage Against The Machine (US-1992)
*Symphony X - Iconoclast (US-2011)
*Nemesea - The Quiet Resistance (NL-2011)
*Dignity - Project Destiny (GER-2008)
*Ayreon - Into the Electric Castle (NL-1998)
*Ambeon - Fate Of A Dreamer (NL-2001)
*Dream Theater - Images and Words (US-1992)
*Sabaton - Coat Of Arms (SWE-2010)


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## Hanatsu

Just downloaded Ghost Reveries by Opeth, love the kick drum!


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## MacLeod

ATOMICTECH62 said:


> Pantera's "Cowboy's from hell"is a must have cd.The sound quality is great and the impact on the bass is so intense I can only take it for so long.


This times a ****ing million!!!!!

Plus, its just such a badass CD that was such a new and different sound that broke such new ground for metal that you cant call yourself a metal head if you dont own it.


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## Alrojoca

My metal experience is limited, many mentioned here are not quite metal, I do not consider DT full metal, its more like good Rock, progressive with a metal touch.

Maybe I am comparing apple to oranges, different music types, I did not mean to say not clear or that it sounded really bad. I have listened to a couple of popular popular Tool albums, 10K being one of them they are fine maybe it does not strike me the way I wish it did, it is probably too many instruments playing at the same time making it hard to say it is good SQ, that is the issue I had with DT but again even a 80's recording from Supertramp sounds better.

One thing I know Muse 2nd Law has tracks that are very rock like, some dubstep, metal like tracks, and some sound much better than others still I have not found one Rock recording that can beat this one, but I know my rock collection is small and very limited.


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## SkizeR

All Shall Perish's new album, This Is Where It Ends is recorded pretty good. great album if you like death metal too


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## Gary Mac

1st ratm, but slightly different genre of music compared to what is discussed. 

I listen to a lot of punk, just started listening to old misfits cd's, terrible recordings.


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## ECLIPSEsqfan

I listen to a decent amount of metal. Then again, I also enjoy some of the old 70's-80's "butt rock" or arena rock stuff.
Main difference with in-vehicle listening between the newer metal and the older metal is eq settings since a lot of the newer stuff has a lot of the loudness war stuff going on.

Anyhow, I guess it's not really metal or rock specifically, but I truly enjoy listening to alot of the stuff from Coheed and Cambria. Excellent recording on their stuff as well. Especially the later albums.


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## MADXF

I'm loving Disturbed - "Asylum" at the moment. 
The drums and vocals are killer on most tracks.

I started listening to Disturbed with "ten thousand fists", and followed each album after.
It's been amazing to hear the progression in vocals and the overall quality of recordings as they've gone along. 

I hope they return for a new album soon.



Oh, and another vote for "Cowboys from hell" here too.


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## fcarpio

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmfzWpp0hMc


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## blkmt

MADXF said:


> I'm loving Disturbed - "Asylum" at the moment.
> The drums and vocals are killer on most tracks.
> 
> I started listening to Disturbed with "ten thousand fists", and followed each album after.
> It's been amazing to hear the progression in vocals and the overall quality of recordings as they've gone along.
> 
> I hope they return for a new album soon


Have you heard device? Disturbeds front man, with some other guys, think vocals of disturbed with a more electrictronic feel.. Some good low end that will test your system too!


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## BuickGN

I had all of the Pantera stuff when it was relatively new but have never heard it on a decent system. Time to rebuy it, I'm looking forward to trying it out. Especially considering that was some of my favorite music that I somehow forgot about over the years.

While not really metal, I listened to Rage Against the Machine on the way to work and it was surprising how much punch there was to the music and some songs had quite a bit of bass too.


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## ShaneInMN

Rust in Peace remastered ended up being a bummer, was loud as hell and that was great, but I could hardly make out the symbals. Sounded like I was listening to an mp3 with all the compression. I'll have to get my hands on the original release and see how it sounds when I crank it up to 11.


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## fcarpio

Not really metal, but Nirvana's Nevermind is recorded very nicely. I listened to it this morning on mny way to work and was very pleased. Evanescense recordings are pretty good too, the intro of Lithium sounds awesome.


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## ECLIPSEsqfan

blkmt said:


> Have you heard device? Disturbeds front man, with some other guys, think vocals of disturbed with a more electrictronic feel.. Some good low end that will test your system too!


I heard some of their stuff. I enjoyed it.



BuickGN said:


> I had all of the Pantera stuff when it was relatively new but have never heard it on a decent system. Time to rebuy it, I'm looking forward to trying it out. Especially considering that was some of my favorite music that I somehow forgot about over the years.


I used to walk to school listening to Pantera on my Sony Discman.


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## toolparabols

Killswitch engage - As Daylight Dies - very rich sound to this album
Cradle of Filth - Nymphetamine and damnation and a day. 
Bobaflex - Hell in My Heart
Type O negative - Bloody kisses
EPICA - Cosign to oblivion - awesome and very dynamic, specifically the title track.


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## Deadpool_25

Tool - any album after _Opiate_ (which is still great but not great SQ)
Gojira - _L'Enfant Sauvage_ (whole album is pretty good but something about the sparse, heavy riffed, instrumental section of _Explosia_ is just monster).


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## ShaneInMN

A few more that I remember sounding good when I was a lot younger in my old honda system

Sepultura - Chaos A.D.
Nailbomb
Eyehategod - Take as Needed for Pain, In the Name of Suffering
Morbid Angel - Covenant
Fear Factory - Soul of a New Machine, Demanufacture


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## Deadpool_25

Animals as Leaders albums are very well recorded.

And I just listened to a little of Scale the Summit's _The Migration_. That's getting purchased.


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## Alrojoca

Good stuff posted here to check it out. Just got the latest DT cd. Sounds good. I think after the turn of events CD DT became more metal than before then, when it had influence from Rush and P Floyd on many of their tracks.


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## fcarpio

Deadpool_25 said:


> And I just listened to a little of Scale the Summit's _The Migration_. That's getting purchased.


To me, Carving Desert Canyons is the best, check it out.

Scale The Summit - Sargasso Sea Expert+ Drums Custom - YouTube


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## ISTundra

Alrojoca said:


> Good stuff posted here to check it out. Just got the latest DT cd. Sounds good. I think after the turn of events CD DT became more metal than before then, when it had influence from Rush and P Floyd on many of their tracks.


I'm sorry, but the new DT CD sucks from SQ standpoint. Really all of their albums since Images & Words suffer from excessive compression & loudness. And I say that as a huge DT fan. The best available recordings of their new albums are the ones available from HD Tracks that are better masterings (and also hi-res). And DT has been prog metal for a long time really, I'd say since the Train of Thought album on, with the Systematic Chaos album being the all out metal ballsiest (and worst recorded). Since then they moved a little more back towards prog, with A Dramatic Turn of Events being the most true to their earlier roots. I like the new album musically, but it's not as good as ADTOE, imo.


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## ISTundra

Iron Maiden's Seventh Son of A Seventh Son sounds great. I'm referring to the original '88 release, not the '98 remaster. In fact, stay away from all the '98 Iron Maiden Raw Power remasters, as they're all loud and harsh.

Dokken's under Lock & Key is another great sounding album, if hair metal qualifies (it does for me).


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## SHOToonz

Another vote for Cowboys From Hell. 

And as stated before, the recording of Metallicas Through The Never is absolutely fantastic!


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## Alrojoca

ISTundra said:


> I'm sorry, but the new DT CD sucks from SQ standpoint. Really all of their albums since Images & Words suffer from excessive compression & loudness. And I say that as a huge DT fan. The best available recordings of their new albums are the ones available from HD Tracks that are better masterings (and also hi-res). And DT has been prog metal for a long time really, I'd say since the Train of Thought album on, with the Systematic Chaos album being the all out metal ballsiest (and worst recorded). Since then they moved a little more back towards prog, with A Dramatic Turn of Events being the most true to their earlier roots. I like the new album musically, but it's not as good as ADTOE, imo.


Mmm, maybe I need to have more material to listen and make a judgement as far as SQ, like those HD tracks, I found the volume not to be excessive and very average on the last CD compared to other Rock CD's and even non rock CD's I have that are louder and sound fine. Or who knows maybe sitting on the front passenger seat at night in colder temperature and listening to a CD copy made with Itunes apple lossless made me hear more clear sound than earlier during the day with the original CD and warmer temperature. 

I agree it is still progressive but the metal guitar is there through most of the songs on the last one, compared to the Dramatic turn of events. To be honest I like Black Clouds and Silver Linings the most out of these 3 that are the only ones I have. There is less metal activity and speed on that album and to me that makes it more progressive and interesting, although I know on that CD they merged quite a few songs from other albums in one with a few tracks and maybe that is why I find it more interesting and enjoyable than the other 2 cd's I have and knowing the SQ is worse than the other 2 CD's.

To me only British groups excluding older Rush albums have had real and good progressive music, I call DT progressive just for the different notes vocals and speeds on the same tracks and because some call it progressive, but if no one told me it was progressive and I hear it, I would not know it was progressive, I would say it is entertaining and interesting just based on my past listening experience with Yes and Genesis before the early 80's and maybe some Pink Floyd not being as enjoyable to me as the first 2 mentioned. I know there are other domestic progressive rock groups I need to listen and explore and may be better or similar to some of the older British groups even within other British groups, hopping not to be as depressing as some are. Maybe I do not know the good definition of progressive, I know I like fusion and within progressive music there is always fusion that also applies to some other kinds of music including Jazz.


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## ShaneInMN

Progressive is a little hard to define but there are a lot of artists who I would categorize as progressive. Rush, Coheed and Cambria, Opeth, even Edge of Sanity to a degree. Crimson is a prime example of a very heavy progressive metal album, albeit one track. Generally longer songs, less chorus, catchy riffs replaced with more of a jazz approach. After listening to Animals as Leaders, I would even classify them as progressive, the music seems to follow a similar story throughout the album, much like the words do in Rush 2112.

It blurs a bit, but that's my interpretation of it. Story music that's intricate and meant to listen to as an entire album versus independant songs. Like reading a novel versus a short story.


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## fcarpio

Armored Saint - Raising Fear is good too.


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## Deadpool_25

ShaneInMN said:


> Progressive is a little hard to define but there are a lot of artists who I would categorize as progressive. Rush, Coheed and Cambria, Opeth, even Edge of Sanity to a degree. Crimson is a prime example of a very heavy progressive metal album, albeit one track. Generally longer songs, less chorus, catchy riffs replaced with more of a jazz approach. After listening to Animals as Leaders, I would even classify them as progressive, the music seems to follow a similar story throughout the album, much like the words do in Rush 2112.
> 
> It blurs a bit, but that's my interpretation of it. Story music that's intricate and meant to listen to as an entire album versus independant songs. Like reading a novel versus a short story.


I would also add a tendency toward odd, sometimes changing, time signatures. As you say though, it's tough to really nail a definition.


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## ECLIPSEsqfan

Brendon Small's Galaktikon: 'Prophecy of the Lazer Witch' - YouTube

Just thought I would toss this one out there. Not SQ but damn good to listen to.


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## Alrojoca

I guess I will have to take notes and keep searching for new talent, *DT has an extremely talented group of people in all areas, music and writing. *I was glad to find a US Rock group with such interesting good music to my taste. *Usually progressive pieces or groups that have progressive tracks tend to be super long, over 9 minutes per track. *Other US talent I enjoyed and may have a few progressive tracks that are old would be *Kansas, Styx and Boston. Very unique styles and original voices. Progressive to me is starting with a melody progressing in to variations instrumentally and sometimes with vocals taking it to higher or further steps and coming back to the beginning making a fusion, like the old Genesis and Yes, almost like riding a road track with many different curves obstacles, hills, etc and making it or finishing *a lap to end the music track almost like going back to the start, *again fusion making it more interesting to me *and it may take many times to learn it or get it as a listener. And of course all groups will have those simple slow songs tracks that we know where they are going, *what's coming ahead and how it's going to end. *I guess many groups categorized as progressive do not take a full lap, and may end up almost in a dead end, if we can say that, without too much fusion or what could also be called a coplete path or road track if we can call it that.*
(DTrepresents that in some if not many tracks) it's a style and I have nothing against that, it is very interesting. *Just my opinion YMMV of course. Times change also maybe the progressive rock today is different from the one from 30 years ago. * Some examples of simple Fusion and progression to me just to keep it short are jean luc ponty (known as one of the masters of fusion) infinite pursuit, trans love express and egoncentric molecules below on the link*

They had similar speed and talent back in the 70's check out Randy Jackson from American idol playing the bass here with those shades having so much fun, a bit extreme on the drum solo but it gives an idea of the full progressive rock/jazz/fusion. I hope you all have a nice weekend and thanks for sharing your thoughts and the music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73LLSnZ6QKA&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## ISTundra

Alrojoca said:


> Mmm, maybe I need to have more material to listen and make a judgement as far as SQ, like those HD tracks, I found the volume not to be excessive and very average on the last CD compared to other Rock CD's and even non rock CD's I have that are louder and sound fine. Or who knows maybe sitting on the front passenger seat at night in colder temperature and listening to a CD copy made with Itunes apple lossless made me hear more clear sound than earlier during the day with the original CD and warmer temperature.
> 
> I agree it is still progressive but the metal guitar is there through most of the songs on the last one, compared to the Dramatic turn of events. To be honest I like Black Clouds and Silver Linings the most out of these 3 that are the only ones I have. There is less metal activity and speed on that album and to me that makes it more progressive and interesting, although I know on that CD they merged quite a few songs from other albums in one with a few tracks and maybe that is why I find it more interesting and enjoyable than the other 2 cd's I have and knowing the SQ is worse than the other 2 CD's.
> 
> To me only British groups excluding older Rush albums have had real and good progressive music, I call DT progressive just for the different notes vocals and speeds on the same tracks and because some call it progressive, but if no one told me it was progressive and I hear it, I would not know it was progressive, I would say it is entertaining and interesting just based on my past listening experience with Yes and Genesis before the early 80's and maybe some Pink Floyd not being as enjoyable to me as the first 2 mentioned. I know there are other domestic progressive rock groups I need to listen and explore and may be better or similar to some of the older British groups even within other British groups, hopping not to be as depressing as some are. Maybe I do not know the good definition of progressive, I know I like fusion and within progressive music there is always fusion that also applies to some other kinds of music including Jazz.


First off, after going back to read my comments, I didn't mean to come off as a d-bag in my post. I don't think DT albums are recorded very well, but they're not really any worse than most other rock/metal that's been produced in the last 15 years (if that is your frame of reference). It certainly doesn't keep me from enjoying the music, but the talent is certainly there and would really stand out if the recordings were better. Check out the HD Tracks if you get a chance. They're still not audio quality recordings by any means, but they're noticeably better than the CD offerings. And yeah... the guitar dominance and speed is more metal than prog anymore, but I still love it.


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## ATOMICTECH62

Type o negatives "Black No 1" sounds excellent.You can hear him breathing its so clean.


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## smgreen20

At least toolparabol mentioned Killswitch Engage, while As day light dies is very good, their newest release, Disarm the Decent, seems to be very well recorded too. 

Pantera's Far beyond driven is actually very well recorded. It's when Reinventing the steel came out that I noticed the quality go down.

Chimaira's Infected is good along with Korns last few albums have been well recorded.


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## Zippy

Anything produced by Rick Rubin is good SQ. Rick has recorded so many multi-platinum albums in so many different genres it is insane. The guy is a genius.


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## smgreen20

I'm not a big fan of Rubin, from Metallica to The Red Hot Chili Peppers. His stuff is ok but not for me.


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## Alrojoca

ISTundra said:


> First off, after going back to read my comments, I didn't mean to come off as a d-bag in my post. I don't think DT albums are recorded very well, but they're not really any worse than most other rock/metal that's been produced in the last 15 years (if that is your frame of reference). It certainly doesn't keep me from enjoying the music, but the talent is certainly there and would really stand out if the recordings were better. Check out the HD Tracks if you get a chance. They're still not audio quality recordings by any means, but they're noticeably better than the CD offerings. And yeah... the guitar dominance and speed is more metal than prog anymore, but I still love it.


Hey, no worries Bro, the thing is the girls enjoy pop music here at home and bring their original CD's to play in my ride, Lady gaga etc, the last one was Eminem,
( with the last Eminem, not sure if im spelling it right, its not loud but its all about the vocals) I guess that is why I went, WTF, where is the bass? even though some other CDs have bass the sound is dry, loud , flat, still lack clear bass maybe it is not only the loudness war but the type of music sometimes. I do enjoy a few rap, hip pop/R&B type recordings but many are bad.

Have you tried playing with your settings, EQ, loudness off? I recently did and I got the metal to sound way better, cleaner vocals, mid bass and much better stage.. Not sure what you have but a sub needs to blend good with the fronts a pEQ will help to play. Here is the thread, many controversial opinions but some of the most skilled and experienced members in the forum had shared their thoughts. It may or may not help you, you may want to try it. Let us know if it helps.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/156481-loudness-off.html
I know I got off topic as far a metal with other posts too, I'll try not too but sometimes it's the way it goes


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## ISTundra

Zippy said:


> Anything produced by Rick Rubin is good SQ. Rick has recorded so many multi-platinum albums in so many different genres it is insane. The guy is a genius.


Seriously? Rick Rubin has destroyed more good music with his ****ty brickwall recording techniques than any other producer out there. Black Sabbath's new album is just one if his latest atrocities. Loud and squashed does not equal SQ

I'm gonna bow outta this thread because there's actually a lot of bad recommendations being tossed out (WRT to SQ & metal).


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## smgreen20

ISTundra said:


> Seriously? Rick Rubin has destroyed more good music with his ****ty brickwall recording techniques than any other producer out there. Black Sabbath's new album is just one if his latest atrocities. Loud and squashed does not equal SQ
> 
> I'm gonna bow outta this thread because there's actually a lot of bad recommendations being tossed out (WRT to SQ & metal).


This was more my thinking but I didn't want to be as forward about it.


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## silver6

ShaneInMN said:


> A few more that I remember sounding good when I was a lot younger in my old honda system
> 
> Sepultura - Chaos A.D.
> Nailbomb
> Eyehategod - Take as Needed for Pain, In the Name of Suffering
> Morbid Angel - Covenant
> Fear Factory - Soul of a New Machine, Demanufacture


You are now the ONLY other person I have known of that know who Eyehate god is!!!!!


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## smgreen20

You can add me to the list. Heard em, don't care for em.


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## Installer Josh

I dont want to say that my suggestions are SQ albums as that statement can be very subjective. Whats important to me is that the album is recorded the way the band intended the album to sound. Especially in the metal genres you will find bands that intentionally produce albums that go against the grain of SQ. To me that's not a bad recording as long as its what the artist intended you to hear. What I cant stand no matter how good the songs on the album are is when the recording is bad due to over compression. 

With my 2 cents out of the way, spanning a few different genres here are some of the albums Ive been jamming on lately that are guaranteed to get your speakers and pumping and a \m/ in the air.

Band- Album- Favorite Song

Chimaira- The Age Of Hell- Beyond The Grave

Arch Enemy- Khaos Legions- Under Black Flags We March

Communic- Payment of Existence- Raven's Cry

Death- Symbolic- Symbolic

Kamelot- The Black Halo- March of the Mephisto

Sepultura- Chaos A.D- Amen

Last but not least IMO one of the best pure metal albums ever made

Bolt Thrower- Those Once Loyal- When Cannons Fade


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## ShaneInMN

I nearly forgot about Death. Human is absolutely amazing, the sound of perseverance is also really good, though squashed to hell compared to the early releases. Excellent bass and really good musical playing.


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## Reventon

Maybe not quite SQ, but Morbid Angel's Blessed Are The Sick sounds awesome.


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## weshole

I agree on the posts of Fear Factory and Type O Negative. I will add to these as well. October Rust from Type o, Archetype, Digimortal and the Industrialist are also great for SQ imho.
Pantera's Vulgar Display of Power is great as well.
A little lighter music would be Queensryche Empire.
I know there is a lot more Im forgetting and Ill add to this when I get home.


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## ShaneInMN

Found a site that may be of interest - Metal-Fi


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## ShaneInMN

While a little squashed, I can still hear a lot of detail in the cymbals and drums sound fantastic. Avenged Sevenfold - Hail to the King


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

^This is actually a really well done cd, comparatively to a lot of other stuff in the genre. It could be done better, but its done better than a lot of other cds as well.


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## Kenreau

ShaneInMN said:


> Metal always sounded pretty damn good in my computer speakers or headphones, now that I'm playing back all those old classic albums in my car, the production of these albums really sucks! I know metal was more about attitude and volume than the quality of the sound.
> 
> I was listening to Opeth Ghost Reveries on the way into work this morning and was completely floored. The production on that album is one of the best that I have ever heard. I'm not even sure what to compare it with, but it is an SQ metal album of the ages.
> 
> What are some of your favorite metal albums SQ wise? I really want to expand my collection, but I think the selection is going to be few and far between.


I really like High On Fire's "Blessed Black Wings" - huge drums and sound stage. A number of their albums sound good for the genre. Old Black Sabbath (Paranoid and S/T) sound great. The most recent Paranoid remaster was actually done well without being compressed to hell. Old Anthrax (Got the Time), TOOL and Pantera all sound good to me as well. 

What media / format are you listening to? spinning CDs? or digital files? If the later, I suggest making sure you use uncompressed wav or aif files and not mega compressed mp3s.

Ciao
Kenreau


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## ShaneInMN

I'll have to check it out. I listen to CD's 90% of the time. If I dont feel like swapping out CD's in my wallet, I'll rip a few to 320 CBR to listen to for convenience, all CD source though.


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## trumpet

ShaneInMN said:


> While a little squashed, I can still hear a lot of detail in the cymbals and drums sound fantastic. Avenged Sevenfold - Hail to the King


The album isn't good enough overall to make me want to keep going back to it.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

^also agreed. Decent sound quality, not a very good album.


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## ShaneInMN

I'll agree as well, not quite the playback appeal compared to their self titled release.

Listened to Danzig's debut album on the way home. Cranked it up as it's got pretty good DR, sounded fantastic but the guitars are a bit overpowered by the kick drum and vocals. She Rides, one of my favorites.


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## trumpet

ShaneInMN said:


> Found a site that may be of interest - Metal-Fi


That site makes me realize there are so many bands I have never heard of. I looked up Gojira, since I was listening to one of their albums at the time. They did a review of the vinyl release of L'Enfant Sauvage, and the reported dynamic range is much better than the release I bought. Then I went to Gojira's US web store and sent them a message letting the CS team know I'd pay for a digital download of the album with better dynamic range. I hope I'll get a response.


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## fcarpio

A Perfect Circle's Thirteen Step album is recorded pretty nicely. Not full blown metal, but it is definitely worth a listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqJJwv_Caaw&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## ShaneInMN

Not quite metal, but Rush 2112, the 2012 re-master sounds pretty damn good. Squashed over the original release but they managed to keep the albums DR at 8 with half of the tracks hitting 9 or 10. Geddy's screams and bass are clear and present, not overpowering, Neal's drums sounds excellent. This is one CD I'll be keeping in the wallet.


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## trumpet

trumpet said:


> That site makes me realize there are so many bands I have never heard of. I looked up Gojira, since I was listening to one of their albums at the time. They did a review of the vinyl release of L'Enfant Sauvage, and the reported dynamic range is much better than the release I bought. Then I went to Gojira's US web store and sent them a message letting the CS team know I'd pay for a digital download of the album with better dynamic range. I hope I'll get a response.


Follow-up: I've gotten in touch with someone from the CS team for the site that sells Gojira's music and merch. It's clear now that this person doesn't understand how music is produced, which is a letdown. I asked a second time about getting a digital download of the better quality mix that was released on vinyl, and the response was, "The digital download is only available as mp3". Maybe it was too much to ask for. I don't care if it's mp3, FLAC, or wav, I just want the greater dynamic range.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

It's unfortunate that many times the people you can actually get in touch with have no idea what dynamic range is, and even the bands themselves sometimes don't. I remember a big deal being made a few years ago over a foo fighters record that was supposedly recorded entirely in the analog domain. The band claimed it contributed to better sound quality. Yet the cd was squashed to around 5-7db while the vinyl was around 9-11db.


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## Deadpool_25

trumpet said:


> That site makes me realize there are so many bands I have never heard of. I looked up Gojira, since I was listening to one of their albums at the time. They did a review of the vinyl release of L'Enfant Sauvage, and the reported dynamic range is much better than the release I bought. Then I went to Gojira's US web store and sent them a message letting the CS team know I'd pay for a digital download of the album with better dynamic range. I hope I'll get a response.


This is interesting. I wonder if there's any way to get that better recording. I mean I guess you could always get the vinyl and have it transferred on some really good equipment. I wonder how that would transfer though.


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## trumpet

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> It's unfortunate that many times the people you can actually get in touch with have no idea what dynamic range is, and even the bands themselves sometimes don't. I remember a big deal being made a few years ago over a foo fighters record that was supposedly recorded entirely in the analog domain. The band claimed it contributed to better sound quality. Yet the cd was squashed to around 5-7db while the vinyl was around 9-11db.


It's 'Wasting Light', and despite the compression it does sound different from their other albums due to the analog master. I don't think about that anymore when I listen to it in my car, I just enjoy it.


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## trumpet

Deadpool_25 said:


> This is interesting. I wonder if there's any way to get that better recording. I mean I guess you could always get the vinyl and have it transferred on some really good equipment. I wonder how that would transfer though.


I think that would be the least ideal way to get a digital version of what was pressed on vinyl. My hope was that reaching out to the distributor of a digitally released album I enjoy very much would somehow get to the right person who would get me what I want to pay for. The good masters should be sitting on a hard drive somewhere, just waiting to be let free.


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## ShaneInMN

Did you contact the record label? Not sure which release you are referring to but Roadrunner or Prosthetic Records would be the best way to "try" and get a hold of them.

Earache has released a lot of Full Dynamic Range albums and they have a number of artists with great classic metal albums.

The Earache Records USA Webstore


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## ShaneInMN

Another good one before the loudness wars took the dynamic life from it. The whole album sounds fantastic -

Doom Metal -


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## ShaneInMN

Squashed to hell and back, at least all of the instruments are audible. Love this track. Seems like it would have made good entry music for darth vader lol.


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## fiveoh

It's probably not everyone's cup of tea, but I think Lamb of God's album Sacrament sounds pretty damn good...at least on my system. Chris Adler's double kicks absolutely pound.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Sacrament is actually their most squashed album. I just got my vinyl box set, its mastered WAY better than the lamb of god cds are. Ill end up ripping the vinyl, and hiding the purchased cds in storage.


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## peenemunde

I love this forum for many reasons, one of them being at the end of the day we all love music  And we can all get together and talk about it openly, no judgement. Anywho, there are many metal albums I've frequent that I would consider great SQ albums for one reason or another. Especially if you are into the atmospheric/digitized sound. Here are some of my favorites

Gojira- "From Mars to Sirius"
Gojira- "The Way Of All Flesh"
High On Fire- "Death is this Communion"
High On Fire- "De Vermis Mysteriis"
High On Fire- "Spitting Fire Vol. 2" (Live album great for soundstage)
Finntroll- "Ur Jordens Djup"
Finntroll- "Visor Om Slutet" (If you are into acoustic style)
Gorguts- "Colored Sands"
Electric Wizard- "Dopethrone" (The heaviest band in the world  )
Eluveitie- "Slania"
Mastodon (any of their early albums, very good production and heavy as hell)
Samael- "Passages"


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## Lunchbox12

peenemunde said:


> I love this forum for many reasons, one of them being at the end of the day we all love music  And we can all get together and talk about it openly, no judgement. Anywho, there are many metal albums I've frequent that I would consider great SQ albums for one reason or another. Especially if you are into the atmospheric/digitized sound. Here are some of my favorites
> 
> Gojira- "From Mars to Sirius"
> Gojira- "The Way Of All Flesh"
> High On Fire- "Death is this Communion"
> High On Fire- "De Vermis Mysteriis"
> High On Fire- "Spitting Fire Vol. 2" (Live album great for soundstage)
> Finntroll- "Ur Jordens Djup"
> Finntroll- "Visor Om Slutet" (If you are into acoustic style)
> Gorguts- "Colored Sands"
> Electric Wizard- "Dopethrone" (The heaviest band in the world  )
> Eluveitie- "Slania"
> Mastodon (any of their early albums, very good production and heavy as hell)
> Samael- "Passages"


Wicked list!


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## peenemunde

Lunchbox12 said:


> Wicked list!


Thank you, sir! 

These are albums I listen to on a regular basis. I own most of them on CD/vinyl


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## tandrel

Great one I just recently found is 

Kauan - Pirut (Album)

It might be difficult to find a high quality version of online. I ended up purchasing the CD for I believe $11. They are a Russian funeral doom(?) metal band. I'm not all that familiar with the genre but this band blows my mind.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

I still want Slania and their newer two on vinyl, the cd versions are compressed pretty bad.


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## peenemunde

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I still want Slania and their newer two on vinyl, the cd versions are compressed pretty bad.


I guess I haven't really noticed with Slania, personally. That's probably my favorite folk metal album, if I had to choose. (It's my Skyrim music  ) Once I get my SQ setup installed in spring I may notice the compression more. Through my Fiio DAC and M-Audio headphones it sounds crisp and robust. I don't know if it matters much, but I bought mine Imported


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

That could very well be it, a lot of times the imports are done better than whats sold here. I know on my copy, the drums are just buried by everything else. 

I really noticed it after watching them and Amon Amarth in concert. I just finished ordering all of Amon Amarth's vinyl. 11-14db of dynamic range vs 5-7db for the us release cds.


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## peenemunde

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> That could very well be it, a lot of times the imports are done better than whats sold here. I know on my copy, the drums are just buried by everything else.
> 
> I really noticed it after watching them and Amon Amarth in concert. I just finished ordering all of Amon Amarth's vinyl. 11-14db of dynamic range vs 5-7db for the us release cds.


That concert must have been OFF THE CHAIN!!

Amon Amarth was the band that got me into metal, ever since then it's been a constant struggle to broaden my metal horizons 

Finntroll, Moonsorrow, Swashbuckle was the first metal show I ever attended. First time I ever enjoyed getting punched in the face too (mosh pit)

How much did the vinyl set run you? I've been looking to convert to solely vinyl but I can't figure out for the life of me where to insert the record in my Trailblazer.....

****in' GM, must have hidden it well


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Still to this day one of my favorite shows. Didn't know who eluveitie was before the show. Right behind the small venue Slipknot and Lamb Of God shows.

The individual lps are between $20-30 per. I think it took about $175 for everything.


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## ShaneInMN

I found this band about a decade ago when I was going through a big Doom metal re-discovery. I believe it has ex-members of Emperor and In The Woods, definately some creative talent.

This is a long 60 minute track. I am not sure how to classify it outside of Progressive Metal. It has clean and harsh vocals though mostly clean. A familiar musical theme runs through the course of the song. Pretty good metal production, the louder portions tend to wash out the percussion a bit, but overall a good sound.


----------



## peenemunde

ShaneInMN said:


> I found this band about a decade ago when I was going through a big Doom metal re-discovery. I believe it has ex-members of Emperor and In The Woods, definately some creative talent.
> 
> This is a long 60 minute track. I am not sure how to classify it outside of Progressive Metal. It has clean and harsh vocals though mostly clean. A familiar musical theme runs through the course of the song. Pretty good metal production, the louder portions tend to wash out the percussion a bit, but overall a good sound.


Video no work for me, friend 

What is this band you speak of ?


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## ShaneInMN

Green Carnation. Not sure what happened with my link, here it is -


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## afwilkin

Apparently there is no love for Between the Buried an Me. I find that interesting with some of the other bands being mentioned. I'm not real savvy with SQ or dynamic range but to me, the production quality of Parallax II is incredible.


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## ilikepinktacos

Zippy said:


> Anything produced by Rick Rubin is good SQ. Rick has recorded so many multi-platinum albums in so many different genres it is insane. The guy is a genius.


 I've heard a comparison on Youtube (i know, bad way to compare) of metallica's Death Magnetic songs album vs. guitar hero, I believe. Sory was, the GH tracks were released to the game maker before Rubin ruined them. T ake this with a grain of salt, but the GH songs sounded great. I believe Rubin has said something to the effect of, everybody uses mp3 now so I can max the volume so its louder, (basically killing dynamics)


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Lars Ulrich also defended the garbage that was death magnetic, saying that that was what people wanted to hear as good music now days. Their collaborations on lulu were horrible too. Yet their new live album/movie was better done than anything they've put out since before load/reload.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

afwilkin said:


> Apparently there is no love for Between the Buried an Me. I find that interesting with some of the other bands being mentioned. I'm not real savvy with SQ or dynamic range but to me, the production quality of Parallax II is incredible.


Its typical loudness wars affected music. The actual metal songs on the cd are compressed to 5db of dynamic range, and the drums sound heavily modified and buried.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

I just got the Disturbed vinyl box set in, and its night and day better than the cds have ever been. Drums sound like real drums, not buried beneath the guitars. Compression is much lower. Average of 11-13db of dynamic range vs 5-7db on the cds.

Lamb of God is the same, much better than the cds. Much more dynamic, much better drums.


----------



## Cruzer

Are any of the in flames albums "sq"?

What about five finger death punch?

And lastly probably no one on here has it but "let the world know" by "dead by April"


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## ilikepinktacos

All That Remains- A War You Cannot Win... sounds good to me! Oh, and someone mentioned one of my faves above, Slayer! But, have you heard the first couple albums, like "haunting the chapel" or "show no mercy", love them but hard to listen to not on a cassette walkman on my way to school,lol


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Older In Flames stuff is really good, although everything released after 2002 is hit or miss, with more misses than hits. Also seems to depend where it was released, the Swedish release or Reroute to Remain is significantly worse than the German release. Also, the re-releases all seem to be bad. The vinyl releases of the new stuff are better than the cds, but not as good as their old cds were.

As much as I like 5FDP, their recordings are garbage. Many songs are compressed to 4db of dynamic range.

By ear, Dead by April sounds average, not good, but not the worse.

On a side note, it makes me think of what Justin Timberlake would sound like if he hired a rock band to do his music.


All That Remains is generally better done than most music in their genre. Not great, but better than a lot of the others.

Slayer is completely dependent on the recording you have. The remasters that came out about 5 years ago are HORRIBLE. Reign In Blood's remaster was compressed to about 5db of dynamic range, it sounds like absolute garbage. The original cd was much better, around 12db, and the vinyl issue is more around 14db.


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## impulse

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Slayer is completely dependent on the recording you have. The remasters that came out about 5 years ago are HORRIBLE. Reign In Blood's remaster was compressed to about 5db of dynamic range, it sounds like absolute garbage. The original cd was much better, around 12db, and the vinyl issue is more around 14db.


What about Hell Awaits remasters? there are so many it's ridiculous. I was going to purchase it but not sure which are the best.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

The remaster are horrible. The VINYL remasters are very good, but the cds suck. I have the reign in blood remaster, and its just bad. If you can wait a week, ill get a comparison up of the cd remaster vs the new vinyl.


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## trumpet

afwilkin said:


> Apparently there is no love for Between the Buried an Me. I find that interesting with some of the other bands being mentioned. I'm not real savvy with SQ or dynamic range but to me, the production quality of Parallax II is incredible.


I absolutely love Between the Buried and Me, but their albums are merely "pretty good" in terms of production quality in relation to other heavy music. Nothing has really stuck out to make me upset about the final product doing the band justice.


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## evilb

Try "Antares" by Sybreed. Outstanding quality.


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## evilb

And "Understanding What We've Grown to Be" by We Came As Romans. Deep kick, abundant use of nicely captured splash cymbals.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Sybreed is pretty squashed. Average dynamic range of 6db. Not the worst, but by no means good mastering.


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## MayLegacy

I am really liking the new Mastodon, I am just staring at a pile of equipment minus a few necessary parts hoping it sounds amazing when it is all installed, lol!

Thanks to the person who posted the Green Carnation video, what a massive piece of music from a member of Emperor!

Can't wait to get some Opeth in there also and Between the Buried and Me.


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## evilb

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Sybreed is pretty squashed. Average dynamic range of 6db. Not the worst, but by no means good mastering.


What are you using to measure this? Not questioning you, but would like to know the best method to do this.

Also, what about the new Animals As Leaders? On my home setup, it sounds pretty impressive.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

I personally dont own the cd, but i checked it on the dynamic range database. I'm on my phone, but if you google "dynamic range database" it'll come up. The cds I've double checked against the numbers on that site have been pretty accurate, they suggest foobar. Where it becomes more difficult is with vinyl, where the numbers you get can depend on your equipment. You might not get the same numbers using a pos crosley as you would with a quality turntable.


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## Fetus

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> As much as I like 5FDP, their recordings are garbage. Many songs are compressed to 4db of dynamic range.
> 
> ...
> 
> Slayer is completely dependent on the recording you have. The remasters that came out about 5 years ago are HORRIBLE. Reign In Blood's remaster was compressed to about 5db of dynamic range, it sounds like absolute garbage. The original cd was much better, around 12db, and the vinyl issue is more around 14db.


Can I ask how you calculated the actual dynamic range of an album?


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

I use the same program, foobar. It has tools to do it. Generally you do it song by song, although if you rip a cd as one whole track, you could effectively get the dynamic range of the whole album that way.

Keep in mind, dynamic range isnt everything. Some bands first album or two have higher dynamic ramge then their later stuff, but the sound is just bad. But, lousy dynamic range ALWAYS makes metal sound bad, as the drums is especially what suffers from compression. When you can barely hear the snare drum over the guitars, that's a sign of lots of compression.


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## evilb

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Keep in mind, dynamic range isnt everything. Some bands first album or two have higher dynamic ramge then their later stuff, but the sound is just bad. But, lousy dynamic range ALWAYS makes metal sound bad, as the drums is especially what suffers from compression. When you can barely hear the snare drum over the guitars, that's a sign of lots of compression.


It's interesting that you say that. I think that "lousy dynamic range ALWAYS makes metal sound bad" is a bit of a stretch -- but, it depends on what numerical rating "lousy" would be. Using the Sybreed "Antares" example... that album has always been a *reference* staple for me to show off a properly tuned system on metal. It's a drum disc. An amazingly good one. And my ears can't tell me on a single track that the snare drum can barely be heard over the guitars.

I would compare lousy dynamic range to what you hear on SiriusXM -- especially Octane of the other metal channels. There's your real, audible evidence of compression.

I would venture out to say that a lot, if not most metal music would chart in the lower numbers for dynamic range. That doesn't mean it won't sound unbelievably good on a high end system. 

But, I'm one of those guys who would never demo Dire Straits as "SQ" because it would make me vomit.

Brad


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

The compression on satellite radio is a whole different type of compression than that of dynamic range compression.

If I remember, (and ill have to look again later to be sure), Sybreed wasnt in what in would consider the horrible spectrum. It was in the average range, similar to what Opeth is in. Horrible for me would be 5FDP, the Slayer cd r emasters, etc. Basically, knowing that metal is very rarely recorded with good dynamic range, I would consider anything 5db and under lousy. Anything between 6-8 would be average for a metal recording, and anything above that good to great. The interesting thing is, the cd and mp3 versions are the only ones that get the dynamic range squashed out of them. When there is a vinyl release, and this especially applies to new metal, it is ALWAYS better in terms of dynamic range.

Give me a week and ill get the video up comparing a few songs with and without compression.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

In other words, I'm not saying Sybreed sounds bad, (as I haven listened to it myself), just that they could sound better with less compression.


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## evilb

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> The compression on satellite radio is a whole different type of compression than that of dynamic range compression.
> 
> If I remember, (and ill have to look again later to be sure), Sybreed wasnt in what in would consider the horrible spectrum. It was in the average range, similar to what Opeth is in. Horrible for me would be 5FDP, the Slayer cd r emasters, etc. Basically, knowing that metal is very rarely recorded with good dynamic range, I would consider anything 5db and under lousy. Anything between 6-8 would be average for a metal recording, and anything above that good to great. The interesting thing is, the cd and mp3 versions are the only ones that get the dynamic range squashed out of them. When there is a vinyl release, and this especially applies to new metal, it is ALWAYS better in terms of dynamic range.
> 
> Give me a week and ill get the video up comparing a few songs with and without compression.


This is a great discussion. I'm anxious to go through some of those dynamic range database entries and compare to what I'm hearing. Probably a fair assessment of 6-8 being average.

It really just begs the question of why. Why do bands do this (and not just metal bands)? They don't have to.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

I think its rare that the band has the final say, or gets the chance to listen to say, a compressed version, vs one with less compression before it goes out. Combine that with the recording labels desire to sell more than make good music, a general loss in public appreciation for good recordings, and the notion that people will always choose the louder version as better, and its a perfect storm for this crap. 

And like you said, its not just metal. There was an article that asked why on earth a Justin bieber cd should sound louder than a Judas priest cd at the same volume.


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## ShaneInMN

New Opeth album looks like it has good DR, seeing it up on the database now with DR11! Just a few more weeks for release.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

I haven't had much time for things lately. However.

I had a local come over (rton20s) and give a listen to a couple of songs in his car. The first, was Avenged Sevenfold's Sheppard of Fire. The second was also Avenged Sevenfold's Sheppard of Fire.

The first copy was a wav transfer of the commercially available cd. It has a dynamic range of 10db, and is done pretty well for the genre, I would compare production quality to Metallica's self titled release. Although it does clip throughout.

The second copy was a wav transfer of the vinyl release, ripped from a budget turntable, with a super budget cartridge. It was ripped at 16 bit, 44.1k. It has a dynamic range of 12db, and clips once or twice, which is my fault, the recording levels were too high.

The vinyl rip was night and day better. The snare had more impact, all of the drum work sounded better, and Dustin made the comment that the guitar solo sounded a little bit better.

I re-ripped it last night, without clipping at all, and gained another db, for a dynamic range of 13db.

I only expect it to get better as I upgrade the turntable and the cartridge.


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## rton20s

Chris' account of our listening session is quite accurate. The difference was definitely noticeable for me. I'm also familiar with the song, as I have the CD myself and have been using it for my "metal reference disc" recently. 

I look forward to doing another A/B with the better rip from vinyl.


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## smgreen20

Very interesting, thanks for that. 

I'm impatiently awaiting fort my Eluveitie box set to arrive. It came out last Tuesday and still no sign of it. 

Anxiously awaiting for the September release of the new In Flames album. Imight get the deluxe set now and see if I can find someone to rip the vinyl album for me????


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Dont feel too bad, my vinyl copy of everything is as it never was took 3 months to get here. I still want to find a copy of slania, but its not easy right now.


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## smgreen20

Funny, I just got confirmation today that it's shipped, with tracking number. Should be here by Thursday at the latest.

I'm also a bit surprised, someone else actually knows Eluveitie. Quickly they have become one of my top favorites. Loving metal music and being part Irish doesn't hurt any.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

I had never heard of them until I saw amon amarth in concert. After that, I picked up their cds, but the quality of the cds dissapointed me. My wife found e.I.a.I.n.w. from them on ebay, brand new on clear vinyl in Sweden. Took 3 months to get here. Its a bit noisier than some other pressings, but the sound is night and day better.

I ripped the first side of Disturbed's Indestructable last night. Huge difference between the vinyl copy and the cd.


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## smgreen20

May I ask what your setup is and how exactly you do it?


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Right now its a pretty budget setup. Pro-ject debut carbon usb, modified with damping material, and speed box upgraded motor speed control. Recording to an alienware computer. The stock cartridge is really holding it back right now, its a $70 cartridge that comes with it, there's a ton of sibilence, so I'm not making permanent recordings until that is upgraded. The records are cleaned with a custom made diy vacuum record cleaning machine.

When we get some things paid down, my wife approved of picking up a VPI Classic 3 turntable.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Here we go. The first picture is Disturbed, Indestructible. Top is the commercial cd, bottom is the vinyl rip. Second picture is Slayers Postmortem. Top is the remastered cd I was talking about, bottom is the vinyl rip. 

The cd version of Indestructible has an average dynamic range of 5db. It clips multiple times throughout the song. It has an average rms level of -6.85db.

The vinyl version has an average dynamic range of 8db. It does not clip, but its right on the limit, although this is due to how I ripped it. I try to rip vinyl as hot as possible without clipping or compressing the waveform. It has an average rms level of -10.85db.



The remastered cd version of Postmortem has an average dynamic range of 7db, more than I thought. It doesn't clip, but it comes close. It has an average rms level of -8.25db.

The vinyl rip of Postmortem has an average dynamic range of 12db. It also does not clip, and does not come close, its at least a db away at all times. I could have recorded it slightly hotter. It has an average rms level of -14.75db.


----------



## BEAVER

I find Dethklok sounds better than I would have imagined. Some Devil Driver seems to be pretty dynamic, as well.


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Lol, stay tuned and ill post some cd vs vinyl dethklok. I have all 3 albums on both formats.


----------



## trumpet

Check out Strapping Young Lad - The New Black


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Looks like dynamic range of 5-7db on Strapping Young Lad.

I ripped a couple of A7X City of Evil tracks today, 9db and 10db on the vinyl versions. Ill check the cd versions tomorrow. The downside is my cartridge sucks. Google OM10 sibilance and there's a ton of pages detailing it, it seems m. shadows voice really sets off the problem, and especially on that album. Ill be replacing it as I'm able and will then begin final rips.


----------



## rton20s

Chris, which cartridge were you going to get to replace the OM10?


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

I'm not sure yet, still in the research stage. The OM series has multiple different stylus shapes. The stock one is a very basic design, and doesn't track very well. They have the 20, 30 and 40 stylus. I like the OM cartridge because its neutral, compared to a lot of other cartridges that have purposely manipulated frequency response. The 40 is the best tracker, but its very sensitive to set up. It would need some hacks to be able to properly set up on the current turntable, in the form of spacers to raise and lower the platter for different thicknesses of record. The 30 is the next step down, and is supposed to be significantly better than the 10, but I want to make sure whatever I get, can play all the records I have without issues. So I'm kind of on the fence.

I'm thinking of pulling out the o-scope to check for vibration related noise from the plinth and platter. Nothing shows up from the plinth when I record to audacity, but the o-scope is far more sensitive.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Just an update,

I should be able to post some more screen shots in the next week. Upgraded cartridge, and fixed a couple of noise issues with the preamp. Finishing alignment on the cartridge on thurs, but even now its significantly better than it was before. 

Went with an Audio Technica AT150MLX. Much better stylus, nude fine line vs the basic elliptical stylus. Better stereo separation, 30db vs 22db at 1khz, better channel balance, 0.8db vs 1.5db. 

Also started using the a/d convertor in the computer sound card, as it performs better than the preamp's a/d convertor. The preamps convertor induced a high pitched whine at 14khz and 16khz, that was clearly audible on low level recordings and in between tracks that drove me insane. I sent strakele a couple of samples from Indestructable, and it was before that problem was resolved. There is still a light 60hz hum during silent parts from the preamp being a/c powered, but that will be resolved just after the new year, and the motor will be fully isolated to remove any hum from motor vibration.

On a side note, the new Slipknot cd came out, and its squashed to 5-7db of dynamic range. The HD-tracks version is as well. The vinyl is around 9-11db.


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## rton20s

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> On a side note, the new Slipknot cd came out, and its squashed to 5-7db of dynamic range. The HD-tracks version is as well. The vinyl is around 9-11db.


Good to see you continuing to make progress. I guess I just don't understand why in the world it is worth it to purchase something from HD tracks if it is still at such a reduced dynamic range?! I mean, I am sure there is an improvement, possibly even an audible difference between a standard digital release and HD Tracks, but still quite a let down.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Agreed. My computer will send 24/192 and my receiver will play 24/192, and on tracks like that where there is no difference in dynamic range, I just don't hear a difference.


----------



## Hanatsu

Just downloaded a vinyl rip of Amaranthe's new album. Sounds lots better than the 0-DR CD version. Dunno if you classify it as metal in it's purest form though. Try it out.

--> Amaranthe - Massive Addictive (2014)


----------



## fcarpio

This is metal and it is a very nice recording. I just got the high definition CD (whatever that means) and it sounds very good. The fact that it is awesome music makest that much better.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Man, I forgot all about this one.

I'll be starting a new thread about the differences between compressed crap and the more dynamic versions I've been seeking out next week.


----------



## w00tah

Allegaeon's albums are generally very, very well recorded. The one I love is Biomech: Vals No. 666. The end of the song with the classical guitar and strings arrangement is wonderful to listen to on a good setup.


----------



## MADXF

Thanks to this thread I've learned a bit about dynamic range, and have sought out vinyl copies of a few Disturbed albums.
I didn't expect to hear much as my ears are basic and my system is pretty simple, but all I can say is wow!

Now I'm on the hunt for high DR copies of everything I have.


----------



## Jim85IROC

Metallica.

For those of you that are still with me and didn't chuck something at the screen, let me explain. 

There is some good sounding Metallica stuff out there if you know where to find it. Some have already mentioned the Guitar Hero rip of Death Magnetic, and that's one. It's still not a great sounding album, but at least it's not full of digital clipping and has some semblance of dynamic range. You can generally isolate the individual instruments pretty well when you listen.

Another good sounding album is the DCC Gold Promo version of Ride The Lighting. It still has that same simple, old sound, but again, it's pretty clean, and you can distinguish the individual instruments in the mix.

Then there's my favorite, the DVD-A version of the Black Album. The Black Album is what got me into Metallica, and has always been my favorite album, but it was excessively smashed (it was the loudest album recorded for many years) and was fatiguing. The DVD-A version is still smashed, and still has a very processed sound, but it's much more pleasant to listen to, and has a big, full, rich overall sound. It's got enough dynamics and clarity that you can actually hear the orchestra in Nothing Else Matters.

Speaking of orchestra, the S&M DVD is exceptional.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

The dvd-a of the black album is no more dynamic than the original cd release. Both have a maximum crest ratio of 12db. Loud for the time it was released, yes, but not even close compared to modern metal cd releases. The absolute best version of the black album is the vinyl version, which was a full 2db more dynamic than any other release of that album. 

Fully agree with the DCC Gold Ride the Lightning though.


----------



## Cochese

I'm that guy who buys high end equipment and listens to Burzum, Walknut, Xasthur, and Darkthrone on it.

Not a lot of options for well recorded extreme metal. Some of the better ones I can think of are Drudkh, Decapitated, and Immortal.

Most of the bands mentioned in the thread, I would not consider metal at all. A lot of it, I'd just about call pop music.


----------



## rton20s

Cochese said:


> I'm that guy who buys high end equipment and listens to Burzum, Walknut, Xasthur, and Darkthrone on it.
> 
> Not a lot of options for well recorded extreme metal. Some of the better ones I can think of are Drudkh, Decapitated, and Immortal.
> 
> Most of the bands mentioned in the thread, I would not consider metal at all. A lot of it, I'd just about call pop music.


Infographic Of The Day: The Periodic Table Of Heavy Metals | Co.Design | business + design


----------



## Jim85IROC

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> The dvd-a of the black album is no more dynamic than the original cd release. Both have a maximum crest ratio of 12db. Loud for the time it was released, yes, but not even close compared to modern metal cd releases. The absolute best version of the black album is the vinyl version, which was a full 2db more dynamic than any other release of that album.
> 
> Fully agree with the DCC Gold Ride the Lightning though.


 I guess I need to listen again. I thought I remembered a noticeable difference in the 24 bit version. Maybe I'm confusing it with the multichannel mix.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

There might be a noticeable difference, as I expect it's mastered differently, just not any more dynamic. I'm stuck waiting a while to get my record cleaner back up, or I'd rip my black album copy and post the comparison between it and the cd. Along my my black dahlia murder and cannibal corpse records to compare it with something more extreme.


----------



## Proboscis

Megadeth countdown to extinction cd


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

^Depends. The original first release was well mastered. The new remastered release that's been selling since 2004 is garbage. That includes the Mofi gold cd release as well. Mustaine himself remastered it and brickwalled the crap out of it


----------



## Proboscis

The original not the remastered after Marty left and moved to japan.


----------



## Parnelly

Chinese Democracy.

Pretty much anything by Devin Townsend

Apparently the new Antharax is sounding quite decent as well.


----------



## Babs

In older old '80's stuff I kinda wish for a decent remaster effort of Krokus - Headhunter. The original was a good effort though but lacking for its time and budget though. 

Been rather surprised by the SQ of Accept - Balls to the Wall. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Chinese democracy is pretty good for modern rock, although not what I'd consider metal.

The new anthrax cd is pretty squashed, but the record us pretty good.

Accept is actually well done, as long as you have an original release, the remaster is brickwalled.


----------



## Babs

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> Accept is actually well done, as long as you have an original release, the remaster is brickwalled.


There should be a law to end the loudness war.


----------



## fcarpio

CAFO! Give it until the 1:10 mark.


----------



## tommymilan311

It has been a big issue with me. I mostly listen to hardcore. So setting the stage is tough. I also dabble in recording/producing for fun in the genre too. 

If you are looking for some good recording and are into the heavier stuff. Check out Erra. I See Stars is on the softer side of things, but they have pretty good production value and do some interesting things within the Genre. But these are more Hardcore bands over Metal bands, I haven't been a super big fan of bands like Slayer and Judas Priest.


----------



## tommymilan311

Cochese said:


> I'm that guy who buys high end equipment and listens to Burzum, Walknut, Xasthur, and Darkthrone on it.
> 
> Not a lot of options for well recorded extreme metal. Some of the better ones I can think of are Drudkh, Decapitated, and Immortal.
> 
> Most of the bands mentioned in the thread, I would not consider metal at all. A lot of it, I'd just about call pop music.


Mmmmmmm. Immortal. mmmmmmmm. Decapitated. 

Most people call what's mentioned here rock or mainstream. maybe pop rock, which is the same thing as mainstream, or classic metal/rock (Anthrax, Slayer). Most people call what I listen to as Metal, but it isn't. Its hardcore.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

I think in general, (not pointing any fingers), metal heads are the most arrogant and elitist and closed minded group of music fans out there. I know I'm not the first person to say that either. But all this genre and subgenre bs is just rediculous. 

I listen to music from pretty much all of the different rock/metal "subgenres". I base whether I like it or not, well, on whether I like it or not. Not whether or not it belongs to some idiotic subgenre that I identify with. 

End rant.

The good thing is, this thread has given me new music to check out.


----------



## fcarpio

So is there really an audible difference between CD's and LP's? Specially for ripping as I always leave the original source at home and I carry the rippled (flac) version in my car. Asking it differently, should I be ripping LP's instead of CD's for more dynamic range or that is not always the case?

I have been contemplating going with LP's instead / along with CD's for a while now.

Secondary question, what is your setup to rip LP's?


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

I'm at work now, but I'll be on my computer later. Pm me you email Addy and I can send you some samples.


----------



## tommymilan311

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL said:


> I think in general, (not pointing any fingers), metal heads are the most arrogant and elitist and closed minded group of music fans out there. I know I'm not the first person to say that either. But all this genre and subgenre bs is just rediculous.
> 
> I listen to music from pretty much all of the different rock/metal "subgenres". I base whether I like it or not, well, on whether I like it or not. Not whether or not it belongs to some idiotic subgenre that I identify with.
> .


Eh, subgenres are in every music category. It exists because you cannot call Metallica, Cannibal Corpse, and Asking Alexandria all in the same genre. Assuming someone that listens to metal listens to Cannibal Corpse is crazy, but if they say they listen to Death Metal... 

And as I said, its in every music genre. Rap... Trap-rap, mumble-rap, and so on. I'm not sure what you mean by elitist tho.


----------



## rton20s

tommymilan311 said:


> And as I said, its in every music genre. Rap... Trap-rap, mumble-rap, and so on. I'm not sure what you mean by elitist tho.


Not to answer for TooStubborn, but...

I think what he is referring to when he says elitist is that within the metal community people may be judged more harshly or more openly based on how deep into the overall genre they may delve. Someone who listens to say "Hard Alternative" like Jane's Addiction or "Grunge" from the early 90s like Pearl Jam that can be commonly found on terrestrial radio won't garner the same respect as someone who is deeply into some obscure Norwegian Black Metal band. 

I know some metal fans that wouldn't even consider those bands or sub-genres metal. If we are parsing, while on the fringes, I do think some of the more "pop" sub-genres do still belong.


----------



## tommymilan311

rton20s said:


> Not to answer for TooStubborn, but...
> 
> I think what he is referring to when he says elitist is that within the metal community people may be judged more harshly or more openly based on how deep into the overall genre they may delve. Someone who listens to say "Hard Alternative" like Jane's Addiction or "Grunge" from the early 90s like Pearl Jam that can be commonly found on terrestrial radio won't garner the same respect as someone who is deeply into some obscure Norwegian Black Metal band.
> 
> I know some metal fans that wouldn't even consider those bands or sub-genres metal. If we are parsing, while on the fringes, I do think some of the more "pop" sub-genres do still belong.


Ahh. I can get it now. As I said, I have some been in some bands and know plenty of diverse metal fans. But most clings to a sub-genre or two within the genre. I guess I'm a bit different. I tend to lean more toward the Hardcore genres over Metal (this is real, while to an untrained year, hardcore and metal are simular, but it really ends at distorted guitar). But I don't really have a bias. Yes, I love my screaming growling music. But I'll jump from Metallica to Arcania to A Day To Remember to Nirvana to Taylor Swift.. IDC. Art is art. 

But, one metal buddy of mine refuses to even acknowledge metal that has clean vocals, but will listen to classical music lol. 

I have a lot of respect for the Hardcore and Metal Genres. I know the dudes from The Color Morale, Or at least grew up going to their local shows. Globally known and touring hardcore band out of Rockford IL... I make more at my current job then they do touring a releasing music. For bands like that to be at it for over 10 years, and not live the glamorous lives as pop stars, when they could easily change their music to do so, is inspiring, IMO, and part of why I have a vast love for the particular type of music and artists. Its about the Music, not the money (This is where I lose my respect for almost every rapper today).


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Yeah, Dustin and your example of the buddy who refuses to recognize metal with clean vocals is dead on what I was referring to. It sounds like you fall more along the lines of where I do when choosing music. 

And for the record, I understand the need for subgenres, but at this point there are so many subgenres and subgenres of those subgenres that it's just a little too much.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

fcarpio said:


> So is there really an audible difference between CD's and LP's? Specially for ripping as I always leave the original source at home and I carry the rippled (flac) version in my car. Asking it differently, should I be ripping LP's instead of CD's for more dynamic range or that is not always the case?
> 
> I have been contemplating going with LP's instead / along with CD's for a while now.
> 
> Secondary question, what is your setup to rip LP's?


Ok, so to answer the second part of your question first....

I'm using a highly modified Pro-ject Debut Carbon USB. It's had the stock cartridge swapped out for an Audio Technica AT150Mlx. It has a Pro-ject Speed Box S, and Pro-ject Phono Box S, which bypasses the built in preamp. It has a custom built silicone fluid damper for the tonearm. It has a layer of Kolossus vibration damping applied to the bottom of the plinth. It has butyl rope from SDS filling the void around the platter bearing. It has a layer of vibration damping applied to the bottom of the platter. (I'll edit later and put the brand, it's skipping my mind right now). And a ring of SDS butyl rope applied under the outer rim of the platter. It has a cork platter mat. And it has a custom magnetic repulsion system taking most of the weight off the platter bearing to reduce noise. It's sitting on a 300 lbs shelf with multiple damped shelves between it and the structure of the shelf, and the shelf itself is damped with sand, and spiked to the concrete foundation of the house.

Signal goes from turntable, to preamp, to computer sound card, which is a sound blaster titanium x-fi. I know, my turntable is a usb model, but the stock preamp and a/d convertor sucked, the computer sound card is much better.

Music is ripped with audacity at 24/96, and edited for any remaining clicks and pops with Click Repair. Then exported back to audacity and edited into tracks.

I try to buy all of my records new when possible. I also clean all records before ripping, even when new. Dirty records are the PRIMARY cause of pops and clicks, and playing dirty records is the quickest way to ruin them. I'm in the process of building an ultrasonic cleaning set up for them. Commercial versions exist, but start at $1600 and go up to $4000. I should be able to build one for around $500.

My lunch is over, so ill have to answer the first part of the question later today.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Now, on to whether or not you should rip from vinyl, and if the differences are worth it.....

The number one thing I want to urge is it depends on your disposable funds. Vinyl records are not cheap. They run between $20-40 on average for new metal releases. Second, the equipment to rip them isn't cheap. I have about $1330 into my turntable/preamp. And while I get decent rips, that do sound better than the cd in the vast majority of cases, my turntable is still leaving a lot on table, no pun intended. My turntable is an entry level turntable, and it costs about $400 if you get it without the built in preamp. It comes with a $100 cartridge that sounds ok except for having an issue with sibilance. I replaced my cartridge with one of the best tracking moving magnet cartridges made, but it only improved the problem, didn't fix it. The reason for this is the turntable had the stock cartridge set up from the factory, and they over tightened it, which left dimples in the tonearm, making it impossible to align my new cartridge perfectly. 

At this point, I have began saving money for a new turntable. The next one will run somewhere in the range of 3-4k when all is said and done. It's gonna take a while. But, I can't play any of my avenged sevenfold records right now because the s's and t's just sound like static. It doesn't happen on all records, but Matt Shadows voice just has that issue by nature. Those same records will play just fine on a $3000 Pro-ject Extension with a Sumiko Blue Bird cartridge.

Past those issues, there is the high maintenance issue. Records MUST BE cleaned. That requires at the very least doing it by hand, with lots of microfiber towels and distilled water. They also need to be stored in plastic sleeve liners, at the very least to avoid the paper dust from shedding over time from the stock liners.

Lastly, you have to decided if the increased noise floor is worth it to you. Being that we are discussing metal, unless something is wrong with the record or turntable, the noise floor should ALWAYS BE lower than the music unless there is a very quiet section. And not all records are equal. A 2lp version of an album with almost always have a lower noise floor because it can be mastered hotter than a single lp version. But, that again adds to cost. I always be 2lp albums when they are available.


----------



## Alrojoca




----------



## grinkeeper

great thread


----------



## Alrojoca

Chris, I got one of those Technics Turntables, from the early 80's late 70's it's not the DJ Mk1200, or one of those smaller, I'll get the model later, it plays 78 RPM records too, but it was some of the ones used in radio broadcast stations, 

it's huge it has a separate power supply that is about 7-8 lbs and the turntable itself comes in a 2 piece part a mounting base and the turntable itself, that together without the separate power supply is about a good 35-40 lbs heavy minimum.

The turnarm is separate, I mounted it myself, never knew if I got it right, it had like some weighs with strings hanging on parts of the arm, it was OK with ocasional ticks and pops, the phono cartridge is a shure v15 IV, it came with a Stanton, DJ cart that maybe was better if not louder sounding to me. I use an AT for a while, expensive, more bass, good highs not as clear. 

LOL all those cartridge brands had their sound character or the testing guys helped describing their character to confirm it, it was fun.


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Might be the SP10? It's funny, but those technics SP10's and SL1200 turntables were some of the most speed accurate turntables ever produced, and the only ones I recall with real, objective measurements. The SL1200 was actually originally introduced and sold as an audiophile turntable, but once the dj's found out it worked well for that as well, the audiophile crowd distanced itself. They actually just re-released a new version of the SL1200 aimed at audiophiles.

I'd be curious if you have a few pics of it set up. 

Yeah, that was my biggest issue finding a cartridge. Every company has their own sound, which makes it hard when someone like me is looking for accurate reproduction. I ended up having to use some resistors to customize the loading the AT150MLX sees to flatten the frequency response.


----------



## Alrojoca

Yes you are correct
SP10. MK. II
Not sure about the last part.
And the power supply is an SH10. E
Tone arm is a SAEC, from what I was told it was about $350-400 alone, one those with a separate head to mount the cartridge that I believe that head mounting part is Technics and probably came with the turntable.

I could send a link of the picture or if you post a picture of yours, I can post mine here, I will be curious to see what you described, and the 300 lbs shelf, ha ha. 

I know those Sp10' used to be around $1200 back then, without the arm and cartridge, I got mine for a fraction of that when the LP's started to fade a couple of years after the CD format was introduced. I had a chance to pick up another one for about $400, similar a year or so after, except that one did not play the 78 RPM vinyl records, maybe I did not get it due to how heavy it is and not being identical, not that I planed to be a DJ but wanted to make tapes with a mixer and have no silence in between tracks, which I never did.

I'm shocked to know how this old format has gained interest even among much younger people to the point of avoiding original CD's.

I may be interested in hearing the results that you get, maybe I already did over a year ago with Dustin's system and some of the DEmo songs he had, that were good Demo songs and sounded good.

I also have one of those Phillips first generation dual CD recorder duplicators, that according to Stereo Review Mag back then, it made identical cd digital copies, except that it uses Audio CD blanks over regular cd media blanks, at the same time that recorder can copy from an analog turntable, just need to be skilled with timing pushing the buttons to pause or create a blank space, it was not easy to operate, the manual is needed, I did it a few times using CD-R s that can be erased to avoid mistakes, and always had to read the manual, it would take practice to learn it and be good about it.

With all the cleaning you do, to the audio signal with software etc, I'm sure the Phillips CD-R is no match for the SQ you generate. 

It's good to know you may be available for the service you provide or plan to provide.


On the topic, that just came up a few days ago, I started liking some metal or rock that has some metal style, I tend to pay attention that for this style, not only an above average guitar player is needed but also a very skilled fast drummer and bass player, some of the drummers even keeping up and being technical are not musical, tending to be sloppy even being accurate, but that is another topic. I'm also curious to find out some differences and with the clean up and vinyl recordings, it may be more enjoyable.



Edited added, 

I wish I bought that mkiii back then, they go for over $8k, oops


----------



## TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL

Those SAEC tonearms are pretty out there. The geometry is a little weird on them, making it hard to align the cartridge. But, get the alignment right and they work really well.

Yeah, even the MkII SP10's go for around $2k now. The SL1200's go for $300-1200 for DJ abused units, or $900 and up for units that were never DJ'd. The new SL1200 that came out a month ago goes for about $4k.

If Dustin played Tool for you, then it probably was a rip, I think he had the Tool rips by then. I have a few Opeth records to rip as well, that I just haven't gotten to.

Here is the last pic I've taken of the turntable, the only difference now is there is a second black box in the right side which is the new preamp. And the dust cover is on when I rip, as my dog sheds hair year round. On top of that, I actually measured a lower noise floor with the cover down. 

The shelf is made with 3/4" MDF. The base is 70lbs, has a ton of internal bracing, and is filled with sand. There is a duplicate of that above the computer, which is also 70lbs. The legs are hollow and weigh 40lbs. The computer weighs about 50lbs. Then there is a sand trap where the first of a 3 layer shelf system sits in, that has 30lbs of sand. The shelf system has an mdf shelf in the sand, an oak plywood shelf above that supported above the lower shelf with butyl rope. Above the oak shelf, supported by butyl rope, is the final mdf shelf that the turntable actually sits on. The computer is also separated from the actual structure with an oak shelf supported by butyl rope. Even with three 12" subwoofers right next to the shelf, there is no audible feedback when playing records at high volume. When I rip to the computer, the speakers are bypassed and I listen with headphones.


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## Alrojoca

Wow, it pays to have a solid heavy base to hold it, I always heard resonances playing it a high volumes and no sub. 


That tonearm with all the extra things, definitely takes time to set it, I got it to sound well, but I'm sure others could do a much better job. Overall I think I did OK, but I know being how it is, it may need frequent checking and tuning. I don't use it often, the t table may have under 300 hours of total playtime, I used it record tapes more than occasional listening.

Here are some shots taken earlier today.


----------



## SkizeR

back from the dead... 

1:20-1:50 is ****ing brutal.


----------



## Babs

SkizeR said:


> back from the dead...
> 
> 
> 
> 1:20-1:50 is ****ing brutal.



Whoah dang!! That'll wake you up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Alrojoca

These are consistent they way they put together each track and I tend to like it.
Not sure who they sound like or used as their foundation since I do not know many metal bands. Sound simple, not sure if they need better quality drums or drummer, however they are approved for my taste and I would like to find similar ones even if it is 15 plus year old music


----------



## dyno

I got tinnitus because of Insomnium - Winter's Gate. 

**** what an album.


----------



## fcarpio

SkizeR said:


> back from the dead...
> 
> 1:20-1:50 is ****ing brutal.


Not too much into "screamo" but those baritone guitars sound great.

This is my contribution:






One of the *best guitar solos* in my opinion. When you think you heard it keeps getting better. BTW, this is a one man band YouTube hero only. He plays guitar and bass, the drums are programmed. He has no records and posts his music for free on various websites. His name is Piotr Gruska or something like that and he is from Poland. Not much else is known about this dude. Another thing, I heard this dude may be a dudette.

The shame is that there are no HiFi recordings of this music.


----------



## fcarpio

tommymilan311 said:


> Mmmmmmm. Immortal. mmmmmmmm. Decapitated.
> 
> Most people call what's mentioned here rock or mainstream. maybe pop rock, which is the same thing as mainstream, or classic metal/rock (Anthrax, Slayer). Most people call what I listen to as Metal, but it isn't. Its hardcore.


Out of the bands mentioned here, which would you consider pop-rock?


----------



## 307Bronco

fiveoh said:


> It's probably not everyone's cup of tea, but I think Lamb of God's album Sacrament sounds pretty damn good...at least on my system. Chris Adler's double kicks absolutely pound.


I actually use the Ashes of the Wake album when I am tuning a new system in my car. A perfect mix of highs, mid bass punch, and low rumble! Especially the songs One Gun and Break You.


----------



## bluecat

Most DT albums are recorded well.


----------



## USS Enterprise

Ah, man. I guess I'm old. When I hear "metal" I think of Megadeth, older Metallica, Iron Maiden, etc...etc....

I've never heard 90% of the bands you guys mention in here.


----------



## DC/Hertz

I don't know if it's been said or even counts as metal these days but Rob Zombie has got some really good stuff.


----------



## Ziggyrama

Recently picked up Dream Theater's The Astonishing and the production quality is ridiculously good. The imaging on some of the tracks is demo track worthy. A handful of tracks on this album really stand out, this one being a great starter:

https://youtu.be/VUayZvdXCaw

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## Ziggyrama

Also, Mutiny Within release Origins recently. Solid album, and the quality of the recordings got much better. These guys seem to fly under the radar but it is a solid band with very good song writing. They tune higher so the over sound is happier and brighter, a nice change up from Insomnium or LoG.

https://youtu.be/tn0N-CIWDGE

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## weshole

I have visited this thread off and on for quite some time. I am a metalhead from way back and is primarily 90% of what gets played in my system. Probably my all time go to band is Type O Negative. Peter Steele was a brilliant singer (RIP) and the music is so well put together. 
Here is two of their best songs IMHO


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## Alrojoca

Quite a voice, it's amazing sometimes a very strong special voice can be the reason I may like the artist or capture my attention.
Those tracks sound extremely good wide open and clear.


I'm still digesting the DT new symphonic metal, maybe their newer recordings may be better, i would say none are bad, they are listenable, and could be better although still enjoyable, some of the old stuff even in a single album, the vocal tone did not quite match with the song or only certain tracks blended well with his voice, he changes it or adapts to it and maybe his voice was not a match for some tracks and songs, still very enjoyable and maybe that is a reason they realeased only instrumental versions of some of their old albums making some of the tracks even more enjoyable


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## Alrojoca

I think I like the DT astonishing is better than the previous album realeased.


Funny on the topic of everything dies, this (everybody dies) is the title of one of the new pieces from this group, they always had long tracks, of over 20 mins each, and now they have some under six min, just like DT did with the last ones. Making it more metal and less progressive maybe to get some attention from the more oriented pure metal heads.


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## dyno

Almost rear ended a truck rockin' out with my landscaper. 

https://youtu.be/KaEqQThg1_0


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## dyno

USS Enterprise said:


> Ah, man. I guess I'm old. When I hear "metal" I think of Megadeth, older Metallica, Iron Maiden, etc...etc....
> 
> I've never heard 90% of the bands you guys mention in here.


The 80's was amazing. Master of Puppets. Peace Sells. Still sounds great cranked to 10 !!!

https://youtu.be/YjQjLLxWKCk


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## thornygravy

KoRn's Untouchables

All of Rob Zombie's (solo career) albums, as someone already mentioned are pretty well recorded.

Slipknot's self-titled album, amazing analog recording.

I know it's not really metal but Marilyn Manson's Mechanical Animals, soooo good.

Shining's IV - The Eerie Cold and V - Halmstad.

And of course Darkthrone's Under a Funeral Moon (just kidding).


----------



## TamaDrumz76

There are many I could name (when I think of them).

I like both the digital and analogue sounds for different reasons. I must say, the digital thing works best for some of these extremely fast and complex technical bands - the fact that these engineers and producers are able to get everything to work well, cut through with excellent separation and stereo-field, in the manner that they do is a bit of a miracle (as I do recording myself).

Here are a few I have a tendency to like, off the top of my head (sorry for lossy youtube, but it's convenient): 

Winds - Reflection of the I (Realization)
(Neo-classical progressive metal)

Quo Vadis - Day Into Night (On The Shores of Ithaka)
(Technical melodic death metal)

Obscura - Cosmogenesis (Anticosmic Overload)
(Progressive/technical death metal)

Alkemyst - Meeting in the Mist (Nameless Son Chapter: II)
(Power metal)

Probably more to come when I think of others.

@Thornygravy - Good suggestion with Shining's The Eerie Cold and Halmstad


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## makinsparks

Thanks, Lots of good suggestions here! Recently, I've been listening to In This Moment - Black Widow album.


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## Ziggyrama

TamaDrumz76 said:


> There are many I could name (when I think of them).
> 
> I like both the digital and analogue sounds for different reasons. I must say, the digital thing works best for some of these extremely fast and complex technical bands - the fact that these engineers and producers are able to get everything to work well, cut through with excellent separation and stereo-field, in the manner that they do is a bit of a miracle (as I do recording myself).
> 
> Here are a few I have a tendency to like, off the top of my head (sorry for lossy youtube, but it's convenient):
> 
> Winds - Reflection of the I (Realization)
> (Neo-classical progressive metal)
> 
> Quo Vadis - Day Into Night (On The Shores of Ithaka)
> (Technical melodic death metal)
> 
> Obscura - Cosmogenesis (Anticosmic Overload)
> (Progressive/technical death metal)
> 
> Alkemyst - Meeting in the Mist (Nameless Son Chapter: II)
> (Power metal)
> 
> Probably more to come when I think of others.
> 
> @Thornygravy - Good suggestion with Shining's The Eerie Cold and Halmstad


Awesome. Gives me some stuff to research. I have been looking to adopt a new band. Opeth isn't doing what I like anymore, Dark Tranquility is falling off too and In Flames is dead to me now. 

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## mzmtg

I've found myself listening to Jinjer a LOT lately. They're a Ukrainian groove metal band.

The album production is decent, the music is great. But what I really dig about the engineering is that the drums span the entire sound stage from side to side. The cymbals and toms just dance back and forth. It's cool.

Jinjer - Scissors (OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO)

JINJER - Pisces (Live Session) | Napalm Records

JINJER - Just Another (Official Video)


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## Oscar

Cochese said:


> I'm that guy who buys high end equipment and listens to Burzum, Walknut, Xasthur, and Darkthrone on it.
> 
> Not a lot of options for well recorded extreme metal. Some of the better ones I can think of are Drudkh, Decapitated, and Immortal.
> 
> Most of the bands mentioned in the thread, I would not consider metal at all. A lot of it, I'd just about call pop music.


Just found this thread after being out of car audio for a while, but you aren't the only one.

I listen to a lot of Napalm Death and some black metal like Burzum (I absolutely love Umpskiptar!!), Emperor, et al (and a whole bunch of other stuff of course) through $2000 bookshelf speakers in my office at work...










...and I just ordered some reference-level studio monitors that those will be upgraded to...











Let me tell you. With speakers usually being the weakest link in a system, I have found many older recordings that actually sound really really good. I just never had really really good speakers to hear more-or-less what the mixing engineer/person was likely hearing in a properly prepped studio with proper studio monitors. World of a difference.


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## Indevolatile

I heart this thread. 

I've been really into these guys lately. I guess they were kind of a running joke for a few years, but they've recently stepped up their game in a big way. It's like a heavier Iron Maiden if Bruce Dickinson were a Canadian chick. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqUPGa15Oto


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## HeyWaj10

fcarpio said:


> This is my contribution:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the *best guitar solos* in my opinion. When you think you heard it keeps getting better. BTW, this is a one man band YouTube hero only. He plays guitar and bass, the drums are programmed. He has no records and posts his music for free on various websites. His name is Piotr Gruska or something like that and he is from Poland. Not much else is known about this dude. Another thing, I heard this dude may be a dudette.
> 
> The shame is that there are no HiFi recordings of this music.


Thank you for posting this! I'm gonna dig more into his/her stuff for sure. Can someone get a crowdfund going for this person to get legit recorded?


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## fcarpio

HeyWaj10 said:


> Thank you for posting this! I'm gonna dig more into his/her stuff for sure. Can someone get a crowdfund going for this person to get legit recorded?


You are welcome! Great stuff.


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## fcarpio

A couple more:


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## fcarpio

OK, some more:











One of the very few screamo I find acceptable:


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## Kcmtbr

Not necessarily “Metal” but Hellyeah/mudvayne sounds nice and clean , Hellyeah’s version of “I don’t care anymore” flat out kills it on a already good car audio setup.


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## Indevolatile

Heretoir - Golden Dust. I like that it gives you that 300bpm fix while somehow keeping a relatively clean and mellow atmosphere.


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## Alrojoca

Some progressive metal similar to DT and Haken for the vocals, Italian band 



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7nDwj2LAKE0


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## Crazychile

What, no Rammstein?

German is the language of anger.


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## makinsparks

mzmtg said:


> I've found myself listening to Jinjer a LOT lately. They're a Ukrainian groove metal band.
> 
> The album production is decent, the music is great. But what I really dig about the engineering is that the drums span the entire sound stage from side to side. The cymbals and toms just dance back and forth. It's cool.
> 
> Jinjer - Scissors (OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO)
> 
> JINJER - Pisces (Live Session) | Napalm Records
> 
> JINJER - Just Another (Official Video)


Been listening to Jinjer A LOT since you posted this last year. Thanks! So cool to see they will be touring the US soon.

Lamb of God Sacrament album has been at the top of my playlists lately.




]





And listening to everything Tool, lately.

And for a slower pace,


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## 207315

I was going to say the 'pretty' songs by Opeth, but the OP named them right away. Face of melinda is one song.


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## MetallicDeth

ShaneInMN said:


> Metal always sounded pretty damn good in my computer speakers or headphones, now that I'm playing back all those old classic albums in my car, the production of these albums really sucks! I know metal was more about attitude and volume than the quality of the sound.
> 
> I was listening to Opeth Ghost Reveries on the way into work this morning and was completely floored. The production on that album is one of the best that I have ever heard. I'm not even sure what to compare it with, but it is an SQ metal album of the ages.
> 
> What are some of your favorite metal albums SQ wise? I really want to expand my collection, but I think the selection is going to be few and far between.


I know I'm almost a decade late but I had to chime in. Making a boring post but will keep it short because I can go on for days. Just some of my favorites that will murder your ear drums in a good way.

Of course Ghost Reveries
Trivium - Silence In The Snow
Woods Of Ypress - Woods 4
Black Label Society - Grimmest Hits
Ghost - Meliora
Metallica - Hardwired
Volbeat - Outlaw Gentlemen & Shady Ladies
Poppy - I Disagree
Mastodon - Crack The Skye
Queensryche - Condition Human
Lamb Of God - The Duke
Megadeth - Rust In Peace 2004 Remaster
Avatar - Hail The Apocalypse
Tool - 10,000 Days
King Diamond - The Spider's Lullaby (Andy La Rocque Remaster)
Iron Maiden - Rock In Rio 2015 Reissue
Gojira - Magma
A Perfect Circle - Eat The Elephant
Danzig II
Slayer - Christ Illusion
The Sword - High Country
Shaman's Harvest - Dragonfly
Poets Of The Fall - Carnival Of Rust
Sanctity - Road To Bloodshed
Electric Wizard - Black Masses
Lacuna Coil - Comalies
Mushroomhead - The Righteous & The Butterfly
Helloween - The Dark Ride
Striker - Play To Win
Black Sabbath - 13
Candlemass - Epicus Doomicus Metallicus Anniversary
Kills witch Engage - As Daylight Dies
The Acacia Strain - Wormwood
Nightwish - Showtime, Storytime

Get the right set of tweeters to be entrapped in Chris Adler's cymbal riffs. 🤘


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## Ge0

Has anyone mentioned Rammstein? I own a few of their albums. They are well recorded and an absolute ****ing Blitzkrieg on your ears 😈.

Ge0


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## MetallicDeth

Ge0 said:


> Has anyone mentioned Rammstein? I own a few of their albums. They are well recorded and an absolute ****ing Blitzkrieg on your ears 😈.
> 
> Ge0


Oooooh yeah, the new one sounds amazing. And the 1997 album still sounds good to this day. Rosenrot is also great.


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