# Scan Speak 12m - initial response



## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Hey all,

I searched and was surprised not to see an existing review for this seemingly popular driver. Since I have just revamped my system to include these, I thought I should post my very favorable initial impressions and see what others have experienced who have owned them longer.

The system - my signature really summarizes my system pretty well, but I use one source for almost everything - a sarotech media player connected to my DRZ9255 via optical cable to take advantage of the killer D/A converter in the clarion unit. For drivers, I am currently pairing the 12ms with a pair of Focal 7W2 Utopia drivers door mounted for the bass, and a pair of Scanspeak 3004 Air Circ tweeters (although I have a set of the Hiquphon OW1fs that I will be testing with them soon too). 

Until I get the chance to listen to the Hiquphons, I will not finish off my kick panels which currently house the midranges and tweeters... so for now, the 12m's are running in free air on a circular baffle of MDF. Despite this, its hard to find much negative to say.

I've been coached a bit by a friend and mentor, and he wrote me the other day to let me know that he had won the Oklahoma event with his Civic while his truck placed forth. Last I knew, his Civic was a two way operation using the hiquphon and focal drivers I was using... and he had done well with that. I'd just written him to tell him I'd bought some 12m's to try in my previous email and it turns out he won this event AFTER adding the 12m's to his system too! Pretty ironic but we obviously think alike! Now if I could learn to tune like him!

When these buggers first arrive I was very excited, but I sure took time to notice their packaging and shipping containers. OVerall I would rate them quite high as the packaging was solid and very protective and it looked like it would be pretty hard to ruin the drivers in that packing... if you haven't had the bad luck of a poor shipping experience - trust me it happens! I've seen Zapco and Rainbow drivers both ruined in the shipping process - despite the Rainbows generally being packed pretty well - their own grills mangled a set of phase plugs on some Vanadiums, so it is always good to pay the extra shipping insurance - just in case!

In a nutshell, the 12ms are everything I want from a midrange - within reason. These aren't full range drivers designed to play from 100hz to 20khz - but they will serve you very well with quite adequate volume capacity between say 200 and 5K+... and if you go a bit higher on the low end, you can probably get even more from them safely. If I recall they were tested at 40wrms for 100hrs of pink noise for their power rating. I am running them from 315hz to 5khz off a pair of 50wrms (rated) channels off my McIntosh MC440M and they sound simply beautiful! Now, after running the following speakers over the past couple of years, you wouldn't think I would be hearing anything new from a favorite reference recording... but the Scans brought out a lot of nuances I hadn't heard or at least hadn't heard as clearly before: Focal K2P upgraded, Rainbow Profi (great sounding components overall), Rainbow plats mids, Hiquphon Tweeters, Zapco competition, Alpine Pro tweeters, ADS high end old school components, the ADS capstone (PDX?) tweeters, and more.

The first thing I noticed was their transparency - they really seem to disapear and are not "speakercentric" at all instead the drivers themselves are forgotten and replaced with wonderful, tonally accurate music! They have a very pleasant paper cone "flavor" which I have always had a bias toward as it tends to generate a more musical and less sterile sound than other drivers I've heard. On the other hand, its very neutral and not trumped up sounding in certain freequencies... they seem to faithfully reproduce what the recordings call for... and nothing else. As midranges, they carry the burden of setting your overall soundstage and imaging as well. Since I haven't finished aiming the drivers in my kicks and the complete tuning process, I can only say that they seem strong so far in this area, and I am anxious to hear the final result after break-in and final mounting and tuning.

Honestly, in all my time of playing with different drivers and amps and you name it, this is probably the single biggest step up I've ever taken with a single addition. They are markedly better than any other midrange I have heard - although one should keep in mind that I am not the guy who has heard everything in existance. What I can say is this, for the first time, my system sounds almost exactly what I had always dreamed that my system would sound! Obviously, I've put a few bucks into this and really worked hard on the installation to achieve this... but it wasn't there until the Scans came into play.

The few other friends I have that are using these have told me pretty much the same thing - they won't be going back... and you can add me to that list. Also, I think it is fair to say that - at least in my humble opinon, the Scans kick the pants of the HAT mids that are very popular today. While some very good people truly love the HAT drivers, I've just not been terribly impressed with the two first place winning installations that I've heard. No offense to anyone, as the systems do sound good... and to those who know I am talking about them - your installation and tuning is just top notch... but they really just aren't my cup of tea... 

Are they a good value? Some would argue that they aren't, but when they took my system to the place where I finally feel very comfortable showcasing it to anyone and may even eventually compete with it, I think the additional $500 was well worth it... especially compared with other things that I might have spent that money on. Are there other great sounding mids out there for less? I can't say... these were the first straight midrange drivers that I ever tried aside from a set of ADS dome mids from an older set of reference speakers that were all the rage in the 1980s... and while they sounded good - the scans were a MAJOR step up!

I would use caution if mounting these in a place where they will be exposed to water as I have heard the cones are sensitive... but one would expect that from any high end driver. Living in Michigan now, things are much wetter than my old Texas haunt, so I will probably be installing some of the Madisound grills (search G4.5) over them for safety, but as they will be in the kicks... the back should be fine. 

Unless these speakers go to hell in a handbasket after breakin and final adjustments, I'm going to say that these rank as one of my finest investments toward achieving my dream sound... and while I'm not a top competitor, I am pretty finicky. If you read my other reviews, the only other products that I've jumped up and down about are the Sarotech media player I am using to replace my 500+ CD collection (in a .5x3x5 box!) and the Rainbow Profi Kick system that I stand behind to this day as being a best value - especially for the mid and lower end reproduction.

So, I've started the ball rolling... how about some additions from Bikinpunk... Geo... or anyone else who has recently snatched up a set of these beauties???

Thats my 2 cents.

Less


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

Thank you, Less, for an excellent review... 

I've owned 12M's before and found them to be, just as you did, an extraordinary midrange and definitely a step up for most systems. I appreciate that you're not trying to run them too low... I found 250 Hz to be about as low a HP as I cared to run when considering the output I expected from them. The 12M's are, imo, one of the best midranges available.

Hiquphon tweeters... I like your style! Having used them for a number of years now, they've been one of my absolute favorites and I've been a big proponent of them for some time. It's always nice to see them being implemented in a system.

You are, however, using my current favorite high frequency driver... the Scan / Tymphany Air Circ D3004/6600 is simply a great tweeter. Off-axis response is almost as good as the Hiquphons which is saying quite a lot. I'd be interested in your impressions when you have the chance to compare the OWI-fs to the Scan. The -fs is quite a tweeter and has a little more in the way of available frequency range compared to the standard OWI... I know Dave Ellis has run them as low as 1.6 kHz! 

Thanks again! And I hope to see more from you soon.


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

Damn less you just may have put me in the market for a pair of these!  i too like your style as that mcintosh amp is my personal fav amp. since i have the tweets and my mid-bass driver, that mid will sit perfectly in between.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

less said:


> The first thing I noticed was their *transparency *- they really seem to disapear and are not "speakercentric" at all instead the drivers themselves are forgotten and replaced with wonderful, tonally accurate music!


My thoughts exactly. They have sort of a special quality to them that I just cannot put my finger on, but I know exists. Kind of weird to experience, actually. 



> Also, I think it is fair to say that - at least in my humble opinon, the Scans kick the pants of the HAT mids that are very popular today.


Did you try it against the L3 or L4, yet? I didn't see it on your list. I think you'd be surprised if you did.


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## satsloader (Jul 15, 2008)

Less,

What kind of enclosure are you using? I used AJ Sealed Designer II and came up with a Vb of 0.685 liters with a Qtc of .7

Man that's small. I considered installing these in my Mini, in place of the front dash side a/c vents. Since it's a round vent, I used a few calc tools and came up with an cylinder enclosure of 3.6" diameter by 1.5" depth. I could go deeper and add some diffusion/absorbtion devices inside, but generally I'm wondering what other options I could do with this driver as far as enclosure types. What type is the speaker designed for ( Transmission line? )..

Bill in P.G.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

I've not done head to head comparisons with the HAT L3/4 series for a couple different reasons. Primarily its been a limitation of both time and energy. I have heard one of the HAT mids (can't remember which) in a car that had won a number of smaller competitions and for reasons I can't really put my finger on, they just didn't sound "right" to me. Then immediately after, I listened to another well tuned car with them and left with the same impression. I did like the sound of the 8" drivers quite a bit though... and they may find a place in my door some day down the road.

Obviously, they can't be bad since they have been included in many prize winning installations, so I suspect that this is just a personal taste issue more than anything else. Also, I tend to get turned off by trendy things that suddenly everyone has to have, and that seems like what HAT drivers are going through at the moment. Where practical, I like to do things a little different than the masses as long as by doing so I am not suffering for my decisions. 

If I were to try another midrange it would be either that monster ATC dome or the Focal Be3 - both of which have terrific word of mouth, and have for some time. But frankly, I don't see a reason to change that right now and have decided to try to finally finish off some of the littler details of my seemingly never ending instal and then moving on to work on my lower end for a while.

The best part is... I'm still having fun and I don't think I will have to be dropping any big money for a while!

Less


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I don't have much time to comment or add anything, but I will say that I love mine. They are in about 0.027 ft^3 enclosure on my dash. Right away I noticed (without any EQ; only T/A) they imaged very well. 

I'll try to add a few more words tomorrow when I'm bored at work. Gotta go back to playin with my dogs and building halloween stuff with the wife (watch for the thread, lol).

Thanks for the review, Jim.


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## shinjohn (Feb 8, 2006)

kevin k. said:


> Thank you, Less, for an excellent review...
> 
> I've owned 12M's before and found them to be, just as you did, an extraordinary midrange and definitely a step up for most systems. I appreciate that you're not trying to run them too low... I found 250 Hz to be about as low a HP as I cared to run when considering the output I expected from them. The 12M's are, imo, one of the best midranges available.
> 
> ...


I must concur with Kevin's assessments, on the 12Ms as well as tweeters. I've owned a set of the 6600s and currently run the OWIIs. I'd run the 6600s in a heartbeat if I was running 2-way.

BTW, I'll be writing more about the 12Ms shortly in another in-depth review. This time comparing them to another very high performance car audio driver. Here's a sneak peak.... 

http://www.pbase.com/shinjohn/midranges

Stay tuned.....


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## kevin k. (May 5, 2005)

^^^ Hey, Shinjohn! 

Hope you and yours are doing well. I'm looking forward to your review / comparison of the Scan and Pioneer. Looks like a good one!


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

shinjohn said:


> I must concur with Kevin's assessments, on the 12Ms as well as tweeters. I've owned a set of the 6600s and currently run the OWIIs. I'd run the 6600s in a heartbeat if I was running 2-way.
> 
> BTW, I'll be writing more about the 12Ms shortly in another in-depth review. This time comparing them to another very high performance car audio driver. Here's a sneak peak....
> 
> ...


I can't wait for that review!!


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## BobG (Dec 8, 2006)

Just a slight correction, mate. The lad's civic has a three-way front stage with JBL 8's, the Scan 4's and the Hiq tweets. If you count the Oz 250H's under the front seats, it's a 4-way front stage with no subs in back. 

Outstanding review. I concur.


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## storm (Jul 21, 2006)

I'll be more than happy if someone can share their opinions between the 12M, Be and Seas RM110. Seems like these are the usual suspects for a 3-way front stage...


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

i havent heard the seas rm110. But when it comes to the Be 3w2 and the 12m, i think i would take the 12m. they have more midbass-snapp and a little more fullbodied sound. 
I love my alpine f1 12m!


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

shinjohn said:


> I must concur with Kevin's assessments, on the 12Ms as well as tweeters. I've owned a set of the 6600s and currently run the OWIIs. I'd run the 6600s in a heartbeat if I was running 2-way.
> 
> BTW, I'll be writing more about the 12Ms shortly in another in-depth review. This time comparing them to another very high performance car audio driver. Here's a sneak peak....
> http://www.pbase.com/shinjohn/midranges
> Stay tuned.....


Yeah, we already know those PRS gems measure as good or better than the Scans but the sound comparison is what we are really after. Anyway, I find myslef daydreaming about the idea of the PRS paired with the Hiquphon tweets.

We all are waiting your review. Thanks for doing it!


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## storm (Jul 21, 2006)

hc_TK said:


> i havent heard the seas rm110. But when it comes to the Be 3w2 and the 12m, i think i would take the 12m. they have more midbass-snapp and a little more fullbodied sound.
> I love my alpine f1 12m!


Schucks! That leaves me torn between the 12M and the RM110... keep it coming guys!


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## iyamwutiam (Nov 20, 2006)

I would look into the jordans as well 
Very transparent and for vocals I have yet to hear better 
Especially when listening to hard rock, trash etc when the vocal are mixed down 
They have been the most non-fatiging and clearest drivers I have heard to date. I think a shallow -6db at 500 Hz with a metal driver say the rainbows is basically all you need.


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

storm said:


> Schucks! That leaves me torn between the 12M and the RM110... keep it coming guys!


dont get me wrong. the 3w2's sound good too, and they are easier to place. 
ive havent got the tweeters inn, and i havent done fine adjustments and eq, so i dont know how good they will sound in my car, but what ive heard so fare is awsome


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

You're limited in bandwidth with the RM110 due to the cone breakup. For me, that critical range from 2-5khz that I had on the Rev's but not on the Lotus, was all the difference in the world. It's all how you use it. For some reasons, I'd take the Seas - clarity, edge, power handling. For others like top end detail, transparency, and body, no question the Scans. Neither is "better" IMHO. The L4 does bascially everything well, but not anything unbelievable. It has more range and more in-car apps, therefore it can be seen as a better deal. 

Sorry to turn this into a comparo thread, Jim. Thanks again for the feedback.


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## satsloader (Jul 15, 2008)

My enclosure volume calculation was off, and I didn't estimate/subtract the driver's volume from the equation. 

For a Qtc of .7, Vb of .685, and adding an estimated 1.6" for the driver's mass, the 3.6" diameter cylinder would be 5.6" deep from the driver's rear mounting surface. I certainly had my head up my wazoo with 1.5" depth.. 

Bill in P.G.


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## tard (Jul 13, 2006)

storm said:


> I'll be more than happy if someone can share their opinions between the 12M, Be and Seas RM110. Seems like these are the usual suspects for a 3-way front stage...


Hiqu's mentioned, those are awesome tweets. No doubt and no hype about it.

Scan 12m's I love those as well. I liked them far better than the RM 110. My head to head listening impression, the RM 110 sounded cold, dull, and lifeless compared to the 12M. A lot of veteran users say that the Seas is one of the most detialed drivers, but I don't agree with that. Even the back ground noises in the recording studio were much more detailed with the 12M. I've had no problem running them down to 160zh/24db with 100wrms on tap. And yes, they took the abuse of long term heavy on the throttle. Both seemed to take the same power and get down as low in the spectrum.

HAT L4, I can't remember when I've been so excited over a purchase. With a 12m on one side and an L4 dropped in the other side, we (more than just I) could not really tell a difference. They were so close in performance. I don't recall the extact top end value we had them cut off, 5 or 6Khz, one of the 2. I'm thinking 5k.

I tell you what though, the diff to the wallet sure the heck is noticable! L4 being 1/2 the cost of the 12M. 

Then I ran them full range. This is where the L4's came alive! I'm sure many of the other enthusiasts who've been at this for 2 decades feel the same way. When a guy has seen and done so much, we don't expect anything to surprise us anymore. I mean, we can audition a new product and be impressed and full of respect. But it has been a long time since I had been shocked. 

Granted I was careful with the volume so I didn't blow the cones across my vehicle. I also had no other speakers playing except the L4's. Xover @ 80 hp, it about sounded like I had a set of 6 1/2 components. I will add in that they were installed in the kicks and this location boosts the mid bass region in my vehicle. Their top end sounded like I had some soft dome tweeters playing with them.

Currently I have them playing from 200hz all the way up. In my set up, this brought their sound more to life than when I had them capped off up top. I have tweets coming in @ 12K just to put some icing in the highest octave sparkle.

I second foxpro5's comment.....

"It has more range and more in-car apps, therefore it can be seen as a better deal."

The price, the real world in car performance, the range...... this is what sold me on this driver and got me so jazzed. I still think it's been one of the best purchases in my career.


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## storm (Jul 21, 2006)

hmm... i'm running the RM110 mounted in my pillars. i find them to be neutral and clean; clarity is on the high side. however, i noticed that there's a dip between the 3.15kHz to 4kHz. that i thought made the vocals somewhat lean. i can't have them mounted in kicks as our cars are right-hand drive.

have been contemplating between the 12M and Be, but i'm leaning more towards the 12Ms as i love that warmth / body and transparency it brings to the vocals. as for the HAT, we don't have a local distributor in Singapore.

sorry guys if i'm interupting the thread. too much of a coincidence cos i'm on the hunt to replace my midrange, and the temptation to jump in is too great! and thanks for the feedbacks!


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

Ok this is killing me! i really want to see a review from a trusted and respected ear here between the 12m,prs mid, rs100, peerless 830986 mids. For a guy in detroit, mi, there are no high end shops here where i can audition any of these drivers my self. and i can't afford to purchase all 4 mids, thats just not going to happen with my income and 3 teenagers. so i'm stuck dead in my tracks trying to find the best driver for my hard earned money. 

I have heard the focal be's and they were very nice, but no way in hell am going to pay that much for a car mid. heck i would spend that money towards a set of martin logans for my house(esp since they are at best buy now ). it's just tireing hearing one review here and another driver reviewed in a different set over there. Is there anyway to get all of these driver reviewed systematically by one or a panel of people who can get together and do side by side comparison and each post what they liked and disliked about each driver, and put it in a format that allows for constant up dating when a new mid comes out?

I say this because it seems that what we all can agree on is that the midrange is *the* most important driver in a sq setup. And its evident by all the recent threads based upon a search for a 3"-4.5" midrange drivers. heck every time a scan or another midrange goes up for sale, that thread becomes more of a review or recomendation thread. I also want to know how far along is the development of the new jl Audio 4" midrange. 

Yes I have used the search function and i have found some nice threads about the scan 12m, some excellent well written reviews about 3" mids. but nothing that puts it all together. i'm not asking for anyone to make a decsion for me, just provide a honest detailed description of what you heard. This suppose to be fun (the selection process) but now i can't sleep as i'm up all night trying to figure out which mid is for me.  Sad I know. i guess just wishfull thinking on my part.


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## Scott Buwalda (Apr 7, 2006)

storm said:


> as for the HAT, we don't have a local distributor in Singapore.


Yes. singapore [at] hybrid-audio [dot] com

Scott


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## storm (Jul 21, 2006)

manish,

what's the retail for the Be's? It's cheap where I am, cost about 50% less than what the 12M's are calling for.

scott, 

can't work... your website doesn't have a link to Singpore's representative. mind if you send me a PM with the direct link pls? appreciate it!


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

storm said:


> manish,
> 
> what's the retail for the Be's? It's cheap where I am, cost about 50% less than what the 12M's are calling for.
> 
> ...


put out a link to Be prices!
And it wasn't a webpage but an email.


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

I've used the 830986 rather extensivly. They need to be properly aimed, but done right they do the "dissappering act" very convincingly. I'm still amazed about how good these sound with a little eq. The upper midrange can get a little troublesome though.

The 12m is my favorite midrange (we do sell the RM120 and I agree with FoxPro's comments on them) but in some applications the 830986 might actually surpass it since it is so much smaller. It depends on application. 

In my car I currently run a variant of the 830986 together with a Seas RM220 and a Tec Planar ribbon tweeter. (160/5600 Hz) I'm not on a budget. Or really restricted to a brand. But I'm using these really inexpensive drivers because they work the best in my setup and to my ears. 

Looking forward to recive some new drivers soon, I think it will be *illuminat*ing...


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

When, how, LET ME SEE!


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## storm (Jul 21, 2006)

hc_TK said:


> put out a link to Be prices!QUOTE]
> 
> http://www.leda.com.sg/scan-speak.htm
> 
> like i mentioned, the cost of the pair of Be 3W2 is a teeny wee bit more than what's listed for a single unit of the 12M. i don't have the web site with Be cost here so u gotta figure it out


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

storm said:


> hc_TK said:
> 
> 
> > put out a link to Be prices!QUOTE]
> ...


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## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

I've had a set of 12Ms for about 4 years. I bought them for $220 each. I see now Madisound has the priced at $285! 

I used them in the kicks of my old competition car for about a year. They were in the kicks, mounted flat against the outside panel and firing directly across the car at each other. They used a chamber in the kick panel area as an enclosure of unknown size. I had two channels of a Brax X2400 powering them with an (underrated) 100 watts per channel. I used Scan D2904/6000 tweeters in the top of the dash and Dynaudio MW170 midbasses in the doors. I used crossover points of 180 Hz, 24 dB/oct and 5KHz, 6 dB/oct. 

I found the speakers to be amazing. Incredible imaging and transparent tonality. I used very little eq in their playing region. I completely agree with the previously said remarks about them. 

I still have them sitting in my closet but they are not for sale! I have plans for them.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

Ok one thing I would like a little input on. The scans paper is very sensitive to water and I'd really like to protect them from any kind of damage in my cars kicks. The backs will be completely safe, but in michigan - the snow can get anywhere... 

I was thinking of spraying a light layer of scotch guard on them and probably will unless someone gives me a better idea! I noticed this when wiping some dust off the cone of one with a barely damp cloth... so they are really quite easily marred.

HELP??

Thanks!

Jim/Less


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

less said:


> Ok one thing I would like a little input on. The scans paper is very sensitive to water and I'd really like to protect them from any kind of damage in my cars kicks. The backs will be completely safe, but in michigan - the snow can get anywhere...
> 
> I was thinking of spraying a light layer of scotch guard on them and probably will unless someone gives me a better idea! I noticed this when wiping some dust off the cone of one with a barely damp cloth... so they are really quite easily marred.
> 
> ...


Don't spray the cone itself. Instead, make a grill with grill cloth and spray that to reject the water. I made the mistake of thinking a simple metal grill would keep out a snert (snow and dirt) splatter, but it went right through. Nothing significant in damage, but it left an ugly salt stain on the cone.


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## mitchyz250f (May 14, 2005)

Rbsarve -What do you mean when you say the 830986 have to be properly aimed? Do you mean they need to be slightly of axis to aviod their peak? I have mine in the pilars aimed between the driver and passenger.


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## Rbsarve (Aug 26, 2005)

Quite the opposite. IME the 830986 really comes to play when on-axis.


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

Rbsarve said:


> I've used the 830986 rather extensivly. They need to be properly aimed, but done right they do the "dissappering act" very convincingly. I'm still amazed about how good these sound with a little eq. The upper midrange can get a little troublesome though.
> 
> The 12m is my favorite midrange (we do sell the RM120 and I agree with FoxPro's comments on them) but in some applications the 830986 might actually surpass it since it is so much smaller. It depends on application.
> 
> ...


More info please.


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

I have been auditioning the F1 version of the 12M's and F1 ring radiators in my basement in some small leaky enclosures. Listening to them on axis I have to say they rival my home speakers which use scan midbass and a 45 inch ribbon. I much preferred them to Morel 55M domes, although I think Morel domes may be a better choice for extreme off-axis installs. What was really suprising to me was when I tried some 8" planars similar to BG Neo8's with the BG Neo3 tweeters. I would say that combo provided 95% of the performance of the 12M & Ring Rad for a fraction of the price. The biggest differences were in dynamics, and depth of sounstage. But it was a real eye opener. I think they blew away the Morel 55M and 103T combo. But you MMV. 

I am very interested in the PRS versus 12M review. 

Also I guess I am an idiot but I could not find the BE-3 in the link above. Where can you get a pair for $400. The last time I inquired from an overseas dealer I was told I couldn't order the BE-3 separately.


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

jimbno1 said:


> What was really suprising to me was when I tried some 8" planars similar to BG Neo8's with the BG Neo3 tweeters. I would say that combo provided 95% of the performance of the 12M & Ring Rad for a fraction of the price. QUOTE]
> 
> 
> What exactly is the 8" planar you are reffering to - if you don't mind sharing?
> ...


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## bass_lover1 (Dec 10, 2005)

less,

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-712

I've never personally used the Neo8, but if it's anything like the Neo3, it's a wonderful performer.


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

It is a 8" planar used in VMPS speakers http://www.vmpsaudio.com/

I would suspect BG Neo8 or Neo8PDR are its equal, easier to obtain, and cheaper. Although you sometimes see the Monsoon or raw speakers on ebay.

I can check tonight to look for the manufacturer markings on the mid itself.


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

By the way what I perceive as the differences are in order of magnitude. But again the differences are small. 
1. Dynamics. The 12M is more effortless and sounds less strained at higher volume. See that VMPS uses multiples in their larger speakers
2. Low end is limited. Usable but Not much authority below 400Hz, although sounded pretty good crossed at 315Hz. VMPS does claim 180Hz but overlaps crossover region to reinforce lower freq. 
3. Sounstage does not seem quite as deep
4. The last level of detail seems to favor the 12M. 

Also keep in mind that the planars have virtually no response beyond the physical limits of the speakers off the vertical axis. Could be a blessing or a problem in the car. And horizontal coverage is also pretty limited (15 deg or so) so aiming could be an issue. This could help tame reflections or could make for a very small sweet spot. And the things are huge, 8" by ~3.5?. There is felt on the backside so it is not completely a dipole, but you would need some kind of enclosure. 

I think they would be interesting to use in a car. I know there are several people using the BGs in a car. Install and tuning would be a *****. I may try them in another install some time but I think I will use the 12Ms for the time being.


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## meira007 (Dec 4, 2008)

Hello Everyone

I recently registered in DIYMA, I'm from Portugal and I am lookig for some mids to my 3way set...What 12M are you referring to in this thread? There are several models...

Thanks!


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I don't know of different versions unless you mean the 'oem' vs. 'whatever the heck we use' versions. I'm not even sure those are different. 

Anyway, this is it:
ScanSpeak 12M/4631G 4.5" Midrange from Madisound


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## Dazze (Dec 7, 2008)

Any of you guys tried Radical Audio's RAX85 or RAX100 wideband drivers?


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## Dazze (Dec 7, 2008)

Sorry! 
Doubble posted...:blush:


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

Dazze said:


> Any of you guys tried Radical Audio's RAX85 or RAX100 wideband drivers?


what does this got to do with the scan speak driver?


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## Dazze (Dec 7, 2008)

hc_TK said:


> what does this got to do with the scan speak driver?


Well, i got the RAX 100 now, and are very interested in the Scan Speaks, is that so strange 

I was just woundering if anyone have tried any of these and can tell me their opinion on pro/con on these drivers contra the Scan Speak mids?

The Scan's are rather exspensive so i would like to get someone elses opinion before i just run out and get a pair...


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

Dazze said:


> Well, i got the RAX 100 now, and are very interested in the Scan Speaks, is that so strange
> 
> I was just woundering if anyone have tried any of these and can tell me their opinion on pro/con on these drivers contra the Scan Speak mids?
> 
> The Scan's are rather exspensive so i would like to get someone elses opinion before i just run out and get a pair...


make a new thread and im shure you will get more respons..


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