# external soundcard or sound processor for my carputer system?



## moparman79

Im using creative external soundcard card for my carputer system. I use the card because it give me 24bit audio 96khz. the onboard sound is only 16bit and 48khz. is it better to go with a sound processor hook to the computer which all it is 16bit or just stay with the external soundcard. Here is a link to the info on the soundcard www.soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=205&product=9103

this is the new external sound card and video editor I might get in place of the current sound card.It cost $180.00
www.soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=205&product=11226


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## WuNgUn

customaudioman said:


> Im using creative external soundcard card for my carputer system. I use the card because it give me 24bit audio 96khz. the onboard sound is only 16bit and 48khz. is it better to go with a sound processor hook to the computer which all it is 16bit or just stay with the external soundcard. Here is a link to the info on the soundcard www.soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=205&product=9103


If you got the room (non-ITX), I would seriously consider losing the Creative external crap and going with Auzentech PCI...
The X-Fi is amazing, and uses better/upgradeable components than anything Creative sells...
Creative has this 'reputation' because the first 16 bit sound card they made was so popular. Same with Honda Civics...they are over priced, the resale is too high, and the quality is average. They are a hot seller because of the rep they built up from way back to when the first Civic was imported...(JMO)
I've used Creative in the past, and I'll never go there again.

My carpc is running the X-Plosion 7.1/DTS/Dolby Digital Live from Auzen with Burr Brown OPA2134PA Op-Amps in all 6 sockets...
The card uses full-duplex 24bit/96Khz DAC to all 8 channels
Of course, I'm also using a full ATX board too!


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## turbotuli

WuNgUn said:


> If you got the room (non-ITX), I would seriously consider losing the Creative external crap and going with Auzentech PCI...
> The X-Fi is amazing, and uses better/upgradeable components than anything Creative sells...
> Creative has this 'reputation' because the first 16 bit sound card they made was so popular. Same with Honda Civics...they are over priced, the resale is too high, and the quality is average. They are a hot seller because of the rep they built up from way back to when the first Civic was imported...(JMO)
> I've used Creative in the past, and I'll never go there again.
> 
> My carpc is running the X-Plosion 7.1/DTS/Dolby Digital Live from Auzen with Burr Brown OPA2134PA Op-Amps in all 6 sockets...
> The card uses full-duplex 24bit/96Khz DAC to all 8 channels
> Of course, I'm also using a full ATX board too!


What would you recommend if you don't have the room for an internal sound card? In the distant future, I'd like to install a carpc and I already have a Mac Mini that I'd like to use(with XP of course.)


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## BTA

M-audio makes some nice external solutions


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## WuNgUn

Perhaps a GIGAPort AG USB sound card? It's 8 channel and 24bit and comes with AISO and Mac drivers too...


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## Abaddon

WuNgUn said:


> If you got the room (non-ITX), I would seriously consider losing the Creative external crap and going with Auzentech PCI...
> The X-Fi is amazing, and uses better/upgradeable components than anything Creative sells...





> Key Components
> 
> * Creative X-Fi CA20K audio processor


Ummm... looks like Auzentech is using creative chips on their cards...


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## WuNgUn

Abaddon said:


> Ummm... looks like Auzentech is using creative chips on their cards...


The X-Fi is the ONLY card that Creative licenses that chip for use in anything other than a Creative card...
The chip is awesome...the rest of the Creative card is inferior...
And I have my doubts about Creative driver support too...they dragged their asses and made flakey drivers AFTER the release of XP, then Vista...

But take a look at the Auzen card...notice the gold plated jacks, the high end caps and Op-Amps...these are the things that seperate it from the Creative X-Fi card...


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## durwood

IMO, if you have a carputer, put it to use. Get the right soundcard and do all your audio processing on it.

Creative/Auzentech are off the list.

Since you are considering a PCI card, my recommendation is the M-Audio 1010LT. It's right in the same price range.

If you spend the money on a high end soundcard and can't use it for audio processing, that is a complete waste IMO.


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## bretti_kivi

+1 on the "don't bother with creative" and "go with PCI if possible". I have a Terratec Phase 26 and it's good, but there's only 6 outputs. For 3-way active + sub, that's not enough. Foobar and the convolve solutions are pretty cool, bruteFIR even more so. I'm trying to investigate some processing options myself, so i'd like to hear how this goes.

Bret


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## WuNgUn

Interesting...I like the idea of hardware inbedded DSP...
How much control does it offer?


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## WuNgUn

bretti_kivi said:


> +1 on the "don't bother with creative" and "go with PCI if possible". I have a Terratec Phase 26 and it's good, but there's only 6 outputs. For 3-way active + sub, that's not enough. Foobar and the convolve solutions are pretty cool, bruteFIR even more so. I'm trying to investigate some processing options myself, so i'd like to hear how this goes.
> 
> Bret


Doesn't Foobar and Convolver use 3rd party plugins for media players?
I'm running Centrafuse in my carpc...it has it's own player, but it does makes DirectX calls...hmmmm....
I've been playing around with AudioMulch of late. Except I can't get it to output live...on recorded, which isn't any good.
Maybe it's a limitation of the trial version?


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## durwood

Check it out for yourself.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29411&highlight=dsp

This thread got a little OT, but it's worth a look towards the middle/end

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8257&highlight=ms-8

And maybe you guys missed this. I know a few of you are on mp3car.
http://www.mp3car.com/wiki/index.php/Audio_Tuning_via_Software


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## WuNgUn

Thanks Durwood...I came across that DIY thread awhile back...
I might have to take a better look at that Console plugin software.
You had much experience with it?


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## durwood

WuNgUn said:


> Thanks Durwood...I came across that DIY thread awhile back...
> I might have to take a better look at that Console plugin software.
> You had much experience with it?


Works great. Been using it for about 6-8 months now. Couldn't be happier. Went from a H701 to computer processing.

Ya that DIYA thread is extremely long, so is the one on mp3car.


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## qpwoeiruty999

durwood said:


> IMO, if you have a carputer, put it to use. Get the right soundcard and do all your audio processing on it.
> 
> Creative/Auzentech are off the list.
> 
> Since you are considering a PCI card, my recommendation is the M-Audio 1010LT. It's right in the same price range.
> 
> If you spend the money on a high end soundcard and can't use it for audio processing, that is a complete waste IMO.


Why Auzentech is off the list? Isn't X-Meridian considered one of the top due to the ability to replace Opamps and its high voltage output?


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## WuNgUn

Is it worth $54 US though??


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## moparman79

WuNgUn said:


> If you got the room (non-ITX), I would seriously consider losing the Creative external crap and going with Auzentech PCI...
> The X-Fi is amazing, and uses better/upgradeable components than anything Creative sells...
> Creative has this 'reputation' because the first 16 bit sound card they made was so popular. Same with Honda Civics...they are over priced, the resale is too high, and the quality is average. They are a hot seller because of the rep they built up from way back to when the first Civic was imported...(JMO)
> I've used Creative in the past, and I'll never go there again.
> 
> My carpc is running the X-Plosion 7.1/DTS/Dolby Digital Live from Auzen with Burr Brown OPA2134PA Op-Amps in all 6 sockets...
> The card uses full-duplex 24bit/96Khz DAC to all 8 channels
> Of course, I'm also using a full ATX board too!


I use a micro-atx intel board in a micro-atx case I dont have room inside due to the power supply and fan. the case is only 3.8'' tall and 11.9x11.9. I need a good external sound card, not pci card.


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## durwood

WuNgUn said:


> Is it worth $54 US though??


Let's do a quick comparo:

H701/MS-8/H650/DSP6 = $400-1200

Console = $54
Basic 8 channel Soundcard with routing capabiltiies = $200
VST plugins for crossover, time alignment, EQ, and other non-standard plugins that you won't find on car audio processors. = $free-$150+

Being able to arrange and connect the plugins in whatever order you want without changing/installing hardware=$priceless.


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## WuNgUn

durwood said:


> Let's do a quick comparo:
> 
> H701/MS-8/H650/DSP6 = $400-1200
> 
> Console = $54
> Basic 8 channel Soundcard with routing capabiltiies = $200
> VST plugins for crossover, time alignment, EQ, and other non-standard plugins that you won't find on car audio processors. = $free-$150+
> 
> Being able to arrange and connect the plugins in whatever order you want without changing/installing hardware=$priceless.


lol...good f_ckin' point Durwood!
Don't mind me, I'm an idiot 
I'll have to test drive it with my Auzen to make sure it'll work. I seemed to have issues with the ASIO drivers with my setup using AudioMulch, but I see Console also does Direct sound and MME so I should be fine...


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## mikey7182

What are all you guys using for the display? I've thought about playing around with a carputer for a year or so... I saw one that someone did in a Vette and it was pretty sweet! Had a touch screen in his dash that was just the screen, and then his pc was mounted elsewhere. I wouldn't even know the first place to start though... I'm pretty novice when it comes to computers (hardware anyway). Where do you buy all the parts, and how do you know what to look for in terms of whether or not certain hardware offers things like EQ, TA, etc? Or do those functions come as part of a program that is installed on the hard drive rather than a function of the actual hardware itself, i.e. sound card/video card/etc?


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## moparman79

mikey7182 said:


> What are all you guys using for the display? I've thought about playing around with a carputer for a year or so... I saw one that someone did in a Vette and it was pretty sweet! Had a touch screen in his dash that was just the screen, and then his pc was mounted elsewhere. I wouldn't even know the first place to start though... I'm pretty novice when it comes to computers (hardware anyway). Where do you buy all the parts, and how do you know what to look for in terms of whether or not certain hardware offers things like EQ, TA, etc? Or do those functions come as part of a program that is installed on the hard drive rather than a function of the actual hardware itself, i.e. sound card/video card/etc?


www.mp3car.com


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## moparman79

It seems this thread got off topic here! what are the bset sound cards since Im going to do all the adjustment through the carputer?


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## WuNgUn

mikey7182 said:


> What are all you guys using for the display? I've thought about playing around with a carputer for a year or so... I saw one that someone did in a Vette and it was pretty sweet! Had a touch screen in his dash that was just the screen, and then his pc was mounted elsewhere. I wouldn't even know the first place to start though... I'm pretty novice when it comes to computers (hardware anyway). Where do you buy all the parts, and how do you know what to look for in terms of whether or not certain hardware offers things like EQ, TA, etc? Or do those functions come as part of a program that is installed on the hard drive rather than a function of the actual hardware itself, i.e. sound card/video card/etc?


I'm running an 8" Lilliput
http://www.lilliputweb.net/np819.html


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## dbiegel

If you're interested, I have a studio grade sound card I purchased for my carputer project a couple years ago and never got around to using. I would be willing to let it go pretty cheap.

See it here: http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?product=9872

If anyone is interested in purchasing this, let me know. I did a lot of research before buying it, and its better than the "consumer" cards that claim to be "for audiophiles." It also has a lot of hardware based DSP, reducing CPU usage, which is a huge plus for a car PC when doing other things such as navigation, etc.


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## Abaddon

WuNgUn said:


> The X-Fi is the ONLY card that Creative licenses that chip for use in anything other than a Creative card...
> The chip is awesome...the rest of the Creative card is inferior...
> And I have my doubts about Creative driver support too...they dragged their asses and made flakey drivers AFTER the release of XP, then Vista...
> 
> But take a look at the Auzen card...notice the gold plated jacks, the high end caps and Op-Amps...these are the things that seperate it from the Creative X-Fi card...



yeah, I will definitely agree that the Auzen card looks a LOT nicer then the creative offerings.. really nice prices too...

I was just pointing out that the physical chip was by Creative.. so give them credit where due...


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## WuNgUn

Abaddon said:


> yeah, I will definitely agree that the Auzen card looks a LOT nicer then the creative offerings.. really nice prices too...
> 
> I was just pointing out that the physical chip was by Creative.. so give them credit where due...


All the other Auzens besides the X-Fi don't use the Creative chip...my X-plosion uses a C-Media processor


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## durwood

qpwoeiruty999 said:


> Why Auzentech is off the list? Isn't X-Meridian considered one of the top due to the ability to replace Opamps and its high voltage output?





WuNgUn said:


> I'll have to test drive it with my Auzen to make sure it'll work. I seemed to have issues with the ASIO drivers with my setup using AudioMulch, but I see Console also does Direct sound and MME so I should be fine...


Jan (REDGTIVR6) tried to use that card and had trouble getting the ASIO drivers to work, plus it doesn't allow routing. There are other 3rd party software's that perform the routing (i.e.Virtual Audio cable), but why not buy a card with it built in?

Routing = separating the audio stream from the software to the hardware outputs so you can re-route it through ASIO in console.

I picked up an Audiotrak Prodigy HiFi7.1 with swappable opamps ($130) and although the output voltage is low, the output impedance is low as well. I have no noise.  Good luck finding that card. Even more good luck getting support though. It does have the routing function though. 



customaudioman said:


> I use a micro-atx intel board in a micro-atx case I dont have room inside due to the power supply and fan. the case is only 3.8'' tall and 11.9x11.9. I need a good external sound card, not pci card.


Ditch the case. Make a custom one, just like your username states. 

Otherwise, M-Audio Firewire410 is the next viable option that won't cost you a fortune.


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## npdang

The EMI I sold with my carputer in the FS section is a great card. I also like the Creative labs EMU cards. But, as others have mentioned the Audiotrak would be my first choice for value IF you can fit a PCI card.


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## Candisa

What about a HippoHifi Bloat (-> Google)? Off course there's no possibility to use the carputer as a crossover with this one, since it's only stereo, but I read great thing about the sound quality...

greetz,
Isabelle


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## moparman79

durwood said:


> Jan (REDGTIVR6) tried to use that card and had trouble getting the ASIO drivers to work, plus it doesn't allow routing. There are other 3rd party software's that perform the routing (i.e.Virtual Audio cable), but why not buy a card with it built in?
> 
> Routing = separating the audio stream from the software to the hardware outputs so you can re-route it through ASIO in console.
> 
> I picked up an Audiotrak Prodigy HiFi7.1 with swappable opamps ($130) and although the output voltage is low, the output impedance is low as well. I have no noise.  Good luck finding that card. Even more good luck getting support though. It does have the routing function though.
> 
> 
> 
> Ditch the case. Make a custom one, just like your username states.
> 
> Otherwise, M-Audio Firewire410 is the next viable option that won't cost you a fortune.


are you kidding me about the m-audio firewire 410, just check out the review from people who used this product. I rather stick to what I have now then spend over $300 for crap. www.zzounds.com/productreview--MDOFW410


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## durwood

Reviews are nice to read sometimes. I've found more people typically write bad reviews than those who write good reviews. I see a 50/50 of good and bad on this one.

Computers can be picky, if you notice some of the bad reviews come from Mac OSX users too.

I'm not saying it's the end all be all soundcard, but it's entry level for external cards for what you want to do. I have no personal experience with it, but it has been reported to work with the plugins for processing on a few other sites.

Look at the EMU or MOTU cards then. Or the RME Fireface400/800, but get ready to open up your wallet a little wider.

External options are slim and costs more $$$.


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## pwnt by pat

The xplosion and x-mystique don't do internal routing. The x-meridians are almost impossible to find anymore and when they pop up on ebay, they sell for almost $300. Not worth it. I use the 1010lt. good card.


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## moparman79

durwood said:


> Reviews are nice to read sometimes. I've found more people typically write bad reviews than those who write good reviews. I see a 50/50 of good and bad on this one.
> 
> Computers can be picky, if you notice some of the bad reviews come from Mac OSX users too.
> 
> I'm not saying it's the end all be all soundcard, but it's entry level for external cards for what you want to do. I have no personal experience with it, but it has been reported to work with the plugins for processing on a few other sites.
> 
> Look at the EMU or MOTU cards then. Or the RME Fireface400/800, but get ready to open up your wallet a little wider.
> 
> External options are slim and costs more $$$.


I will just keep my soundblaster external for now.


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## newtitan

anyone ever try the HD2, looks cool since its so low profile

Im also considering the ONKYO SE-200PCI


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