# 2003 Tacoma 4x4 X-Cab Budget Build



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Howdy folks. This will be my first post to the forum although I've lurked for a bit. 

For a short introduction, I used to get into car audio back in the 80s and 90s. I have been totally out of the loop for well over a decade, but a new job means lots of driving, and an investment in my sanity & everyone else's safety was in order .

Here's what it's going in










I started small with a Kenwood DPX 501 head unit & replaced the factory speaks. I'm pretty limited in the Taco on speaker selection & staying relatively OEM, so I went with NVX V-Series 5.25 separates up front & Quart ONX 5x7 out back. Boy howdy has Quart gone downhill. They don't sound awful and provide decent fill, which is all I want from them, but they'll get replaced at some point. 

I wound up making a set of adapters for the door to go from the factory oval to a round woofer. For that I hacked up an ABS clipboard & cut it accordingly. I wish now that I'd taken more pictures of all that. I didn't quite suspect at the time that I'd go further. It was always a possibility, but I wanted to see what I could do just replacing easy stuff. 

Of course it was not enough. I realized pretty quickly that I'd need a sub. And an amp for at least the front end. For this I chose the US Acoustics Lisa and an RE REX v2 8 inch subwoofer. I thought I could get away with more, but this is all the space I was willing to give up....~.74 cubic feet of interior space which will basically just extend the armrest all the way to the back of the cab...sort of. 










2 channels will work with the NVX separates while the other 2 will be bridged for subwoofer duty. 

More to come.....


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

The first thing I wanted to do was get started with the enclosure. I've built a few enclosures in the past - all more complex than this one. I only have room for a single eight and it will need to be sealed. I think I prefer this option anyway - especially considering the small space inside the truck. I think it will fit my listening preferences well also. Mo bass; mo problems. A sealed 8 will do. The Lisa claims to make ~170W RMS bridged at 4 ohms. This seems to be about perfect for this sub in this configuration. I hear these amps are a little underrated anyway, but there isn't much out there about them just yet. 

Building the box. 

I used 3/4 inch MDF although I was tempted to use 1/2 since this is an 8. It's a reasonably heavy driver though & I talked myself out of it and will just live with the slight increase in enclosure size.










I used a portable table saw to make the cuts & could have done better with a real table saw. But way too much sanding & I got all the pieces square. Then it sat like this in the garage for a week while I worked & pondered what I'd do about a baffle & mounting hardware. 

Baffle roughed out with a jigsaw. 










Then sanded & attached for a fit test










All good!










Everything got disassembled, cleaned, glued, reassembled & is sitting in the warm & dry laundry room waiting for tomorrow afternoon. 

Next up was pulling the head unit & running RCA & turn-on wire. After that I started running cable through the cab, but had to stop because I really need to pull the passenger seat to put things in the right places. It's snowing and I have a tiny garage...gonna have to wait 'till the morning when I can open up the doors. And maybe take some more pictures. I think I might get to listen to this thing tomorrow! I started messing with this over a month ago, so I'm sort of chomping at the bit.

Patience though. The box glue won't officially be ready 'till tomorrow afternoon & given all I have left to do, I'm starting to think that finishing this tomorrow is a tad optimistic. I just bought a lot of coffee though, so who knows?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

Nice truck, watching for updates.


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## lowcel (Dec 28, 2014)

Looking good so far.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Today got off to a slow start. We bottomed out at 8 degrees last night & we didn't get above freezing until well after noon so I had to start inside. 

But before going there, I wanna back up a bit. I never really talked about what I wanted and why I'm doing what I'm doing. I've done larger builds before with a bit more power & complexity, but wanted to keep this simple in addition to cheap. When I was doing this in the 90s I didn't mind dumping the better part of a grand on a head unit. But as I started exploring the idea of doing anything at all from factory I discovered that bang for the buck is better than it used to be - quite a bit better. So why not approach it from the 'cheap' angle? I'm sort of betting myself that I can I spend around $500 and still achieve better than good sound quality & more SPL than I require. I'm also getting Bluetooth functionality, USB, & a few others which I don't really use. USB is all I really need. But I still have lots of CDs, so the ability to play them is a bonus. 

So how am I doing so far? Good question. I kinda wanna know myself.

Kenwood DPX 501 BT - $120
NVX 5.25 separates - $54
MB Quart Coax - $35

$209 to upgrade my head unit & realize my stockers were about done. 

Plus

REX v2 8 - $60
US Acoustics Lisa - $150
Misc wiring & terminals - $60
Carpeted Enclosure - $60

$330 for the next upgrade

Bringing the grand total to $539 . I think I paid like $700 for a Concord head unit one time. Just over $500 for a major upgrade and I keep most of the truck's functionality. Sweet! 

Not only that, but I'm kinda shocked to pay $60 for a sub like the REX. And so far the Lisa doesn't disappoint, but I'm getting ahead of myself. 

Another thing I didn't want was a charging system upgrade. I also wanted to be able to play music with the truck off - again without a charging system or even battery upgrade. I'm good for at least an hour and a half so far. 

I'd have more pictures, but I was working against the clock today & somewhat on ice. 

But after the glue cured, I overcaulked the box (it will be carpeted) and installed the driver.










I used T-nuts in the baffle to accept machine screws. I'm not installing polyfil just yet. I wanna spend some time with just the box so I can really tell the difference. 










NVX separates in the doors. Tweeters flush mounted in stock locations. I'm probably going to recess them and replace the factory tweeter grill. They're loud enough even dropped -3 dB on the crossover. Sticking them in the door should make 'em just right. Woofers sound good - especially with some power on them. 










Testing the box 



















Carpet is next. And mounting. I'm still trying to contrive some sort of quick-release. 

Re-assembling the dash










I found some funny money!










It's good all the way down to 20 - which just sorta moved air, but it kinda stunned me at 25...for an eight I'm floored...nice & strong. Haven't clipped it yet. 










Lots of testing & finishing to come, but all the equipment works and the box sounds delicious! 

Until next time, thanks for riding along.


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## ruizal (Aug 4, 2015)

Looking good. I have a spot in my heart for Toyota pickups lol. 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks folks!

Yeah, I have a bit of a soft spot for the trucks too. It took me 2 years to find this one. Lots of them around here, but conditions vary wildly. This one was almost a garage queen when I got it...never even did any real offroading or towing. A local photographer used it to haul his gear around in all conditions. 

I've spent a lot of time in the last few days tweaking things & have almost settled on gains & crossover points. But I'm ready to stick in the polyfil now. This sub is amazing, but rolls off around I dunno - maybe 45 Hz or so? For an 8 inch driver and the power it's nothing short of amazing. But I'm thinking a little polyfil will and extend the low end & maybe even a little more SPL (which I don't even need). 

I threw some bass at it today as I was driving...can't really do that here. OFMG  I can't believe this driver. I tossed it bass-heavy disco & electronica and it just showed off. I still haven't found its limit. Again, I'd like to bring in some more low end, and I think the polyfil will do that, but to say this arrangement has exceeded my expectations would be an understatment. 

Off to install polyfil & maybe even carpet this thing.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

As expected, the polyfil made a big difference. I put in roughly a half pound - glued to all the interior surfaces. I understand that a ratio of roughly .8lb/ft³ is somewhere in the neighborhood of optimal returns. I believe the interior airspace of my enclosure to be right around .70 ft³ (after the compensating for the baffle). This is among the larger sizes recommended by RE for a sealed box. So my half pound or so (kinda hard to weigh this stuff) of polyfil gives me roughly .72 lb/ft³...short of .8 but comfortably in the neighborhood. 

That most definitely extended the bottom end. It also seems to have smoothed frequency response. That's all seat of pants mind you, but it definitely goes lower & more confidently. The gains needed to come down right away as the stuff I was listening to last night was way bass-heavy as I switched the truck back on. Speaking of seat of pants, it has more rumble to it...more of that and less pingy. I think I can be happy with this tune. It's more bass than I need...keeping some in reserve. 

Slapped some carpet on the box while I was at it










Bolted the sub back in. 










Well, it looked like the right carpet under the fluorescent lights 










Anyhoo, this is essentially the idea. I need to make a grill & hide the amp. Amp should be easy enough, but I want this thing to disappear. Maybe I'll be on the lookout for a better match for the carpet. I did a bit of a hackjob on it anyway, so it was good practice. 

Oh, the tweeters. I may have mentioned before that they were a bit harsh. If so, I'm mentioning it again. However I discovered that when I rotated them further off-axis and into the dash & windshield that not only do they sound right, but they set up a stage that just wasn't there before! For this reason, I probably won't stick them behind the doors, but will leave them and play with the aim 'till I get it just right. I was considering replacing them before I did this. 

So far so good regarding the charging system. I've given it considerable play in the garage over the last couple of nights & 2 hours is no problem off the battery. I drive with an extra 110W of lights in addition to headlights and they don't dim a bit. I really need to install a voltmeter though...on the short list. 

This is where I stare at things for a while & solve these few remaining problems. But for the meantime, I have good tunes! And the rest of the week off


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

Is this the part where you torture it until it gives you the information you want?:laugh:


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

nice work,btw


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Yeah, torture is about right. I believe shortly afterward I sanded on that terminal hole for a good hour 'till it caved. That was a lot of work for 1/16 inch. 

And ty. I'm almost embarrassed to post something so simple among so many incredible builds, but there it is. I'm just giggly that I've been able to put together something that sounds so good for slightly over $500.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

To some extent, budget is irrelevant. Install is key. Glad you enjoy it.


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

digging this. What do you think of that lisa amp? Been considering a pair of those or a Barbara ann. Love the pricing on them


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So far the Lisa really rocks. Sound quality is great & it's giving me all the power I need for this small cab. It's providing clean, abundant power to the sub - easily delivering the promised 170 W bridged. And yeah, the prices are nice. 

I've noticed a bit of hiss at idle with the truck off & everything really quiet, but haven't bothered to isolate it yet. It could be from the head unit. I suspect it's from the head unit, but a few things make me wonder. I just need to pull the inputs & see if it goes away. I'll follow up on that. Ima drive up into the mountains shortly & spend some quality time just listening & tweaking.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So the Lisa isn't making the hiss. It's the head unit. And I think it's more a function of the input. It makes hardly any background noise with a CD, but more with USB and bluetooth...especially with bluetooth. It isn't noticeable with the truck running, but sitting in the garage with the windows up I can hear it. 

But that brings me to another thing. I think these tweeters may be more sensitive at that frequency. Actually I think these have at least one good hump in the upper end of their curve. I can't smooth it with electronic tuning...at least not what I'm using at the moment and I don't intend to install an EQ just to deal with that. I'm not convinced it would work anyway. I think I just need to get rid of these tweeters. And if I'm doing that, I'm replacing the whole kit. I knew I was taking a gamble with the NVX stuff anyway, and the woofer sounds good, but the tweeter at very least is going to have to go. It has a crazy spot. I wish I had a good mic so I could prove it to myself, but I don't think I really need to go that far. I just need to find a new set of separates, maybe find a way to sneak a 6.5 in the door, and hand these off to someone who probably won't care...that or make some little garage cabs. Or put them in the back...that might work. 

So I'll be expanding the budget a bit & doing some reading & maybe try to listen to some stuff. Recommendations would be appreciated if anything comes to mind if anyone is actually reading any of this. Otherwise I've had my eye on some Sundown stuff. Decisions.....


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

So check it... I had some components, kinda the same, but instead of ditching them, I ran the mid full range and used the crossover for the tweeter with a capacitor of a higher frequency inline. Not terribly high tech, but helped me do two things, maybe three- allow the woofer to compensate for so-so crossover and rolloff more naturally and cover a greater portion of the spectrum. Next, it allowed me to create a step filter and use a cheap fix to help maximize the tweeter and lastly, it allowed me to squeeze out more juice from the amp. My .02


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Yeah, I didn't go rip them right out...started thinking maybe they're salvageable somehow or at least worthy of experimentation while I consider the future. They're close to sounding fine, but this tweeter! I wound up pointing them at the floor & pulling in a little more rear fill...that helped a bunch. Maybe I'll try your suggestion at some point...that could work out. Maybe I'll try 'em in the door after all. 

And I need to keep in mind that I'm usually dealing with road noise and haven't bothered lining any of the panels. I'm not giving this kit the best conditions. It won't hurt my feelings if I have to get a nice set of separates up front, but it'd be fun to make these work.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

You may also try moving your tweeter closer to your mid. You could be seeing the effects of separation. Usually good to be within a foot of each other.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

I would also tell you before you go dropping heavy cash or even mild cash on deadener, try a different install vapproah with regards to the tweeter. I learned, after quiteca long time of trying active, and starting over with passive, that great imaging and state can be achieved low in the door. Dash is good for active or tweets that are in companion to a full range tweeter. IMO


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

Sorry, I meant full range mid


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Hmmm, food for thought. I didn't think about separation, but it makes sense. I spent some more time listening after aiming them at the floor & that's working out much better. I'm not totally sold, but it's better. Maybe I'll pull the tweeters & move them around the door to see if that helps. Some other day though. It's snowing again & gonna be really cold for the next few days. Time to do a little fatbiking


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Hi again folks! It's been a while since I've posted, so I thought I'd follow up with a short update. The install has stalled as the weather has been awful, work was busy & the holidays took the rest of my time (SO worth it!). 

But I've been doing a lot of tuning & listening & have discovered some issues. The one which will probably be addressed first is the vibration. Around 100 Hz down to maybe 80 Hz I have a big resonance problem throughout my panels. I don't notice it that much until I'm tuning single frequencies, but then it becomes hella obvious. There are other frequencies as well, so some mass damping is in order...probably some sound insulation too. 

And I just won't be able to live with the NVX separates too much longer I'm afraid. However I'll probably give them the benefit of the doubt and see how they fare through the panel treatments. I still don't think the tweeter will survive the guillotine though. It seems to be the big problem. Sort of. I think I've pinned my issue with the NVX set. It sounds great sometimes...always with electronic music. But once I ask them to give me accurate guitar or vocals they can't bring it home. And the tweeters are still hissy. But again, if it's electronic music you want, they'll produce. And I do like my share of electronic music, but not all the time. That said, I try to keep in mind that I'm usually driving and some of this picky business does not matter. But even the noisy '03 Taco cabin won't hush these NVX tweeters when they wanna speak. 

I have my eye on the Morel Maximo at the moment, but squeezing a 6.5 in the doors will be a chore. Yes, I realize it's a leap from the basement budget department, but I'm still well under a grand and by the standards of most car audio enthusiasts, I'm still safely in the cheap bastards' club. 

I've also been rethinking the sub. While I adore the RE, I've discovered that I can use the same space, about twice the power and a much more complex enclosure to mash a Sundown E8 leaps beyond the capabilities of my current driver. I wish I had double the space I have now. I really do LOVE the REX 8. It sounds amazing. But it needs so much room to get down & dirty and I just don't have it. And the E8 is kinda sexy. 

That maybe means a new amp. Actually the Lisa would work nicely with an E8 - delivering an advertised 340W bridged @ 4 Ohms. It's been a nice amp so far. A new & more powerful amp would be found for the front stage & maybe for rear fill keeping the whole thing under 550 Watts. 500 was the target cutoff as I still don't want to upgrade the alternator. I'm also an older cat & don't ask so much of a sub amp full-time. 

I did get a few hours above freezing one day to try a half-cocked idea I'd gleamed from some other post which used a router & threaded rod. So here's the idea. I'll use the scroll saw to cut the hole & just let the saw pivot around the guide. 










It's hard to see, but the blade started angling & finally broke off before I could even get in a 90 degree slice. I knew it was a longshot, but in the spirit of cheap, I figured I'd give 'er the ol college try. I could use a router anyway. 










Idiot's day out, I know, but learn from it if you wish. 

Oh, for what it's worth, I'm trying to make a ring to cover the sub with that mess above. I've decided against any sort of pre-made grills which might color the sound & instead extend a ring or 2 and cover with grill cloth and maybe another sort of barrier within...maybe a few bicycle spokes hammered between layers as a backup.

For 75% of my music this setup sounds great. For electronic & dance music it sounds amazing...yeah, bass-heavy stuff. The NVX separates appear to be made just for it. They dash through traffic & wind & general chaos. But they're just too edgy. And as much as I love the REX, Ima just come out & admit it - I love the brown note. The E8 gets me a little closer.

'till next time, thanks for riding along!


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## annoyingrob (Aug 24, 2007)

I see we have similar ideas on hiding amps under the seats:


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

The NVX X-series are a completely different animal.. I'd never suggest anything less than the X-series XSPTW and XSP65 components.. They're essentially SB29 tweeter and SB17 mids by SB Acoustics. Been loving them in my ride for a while now.

Interesting go at it was circle cutting.

Hey on tweeters I should mention I've got some SEAS Neo Alums and the cool old Vifa fabric dome car tweets with flush cups sitting around if you're interested in trying some different tweets on the cheap. Like these from an old thread:


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Yeah, some different tweets are gonna happen one way or another. I'm reminded how harsh they are every time I come in & turn on my home equipment. I don't have anything fancy here - just a pair of Polk R15s full-range. If I could stick those in the truck...

Does the Vifa swivel in the flush mount? Wonder how it would plug & play with the NVX crossover? I can't find the crossover frequency. Either way I'm going to replace the whole kit probably pretty soon. I just have to pick. Maybe I'll just go with a Polk set since I like my home speaks so well. Decisions...


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

No it sets into the metal flush mounts and twists to lock in. Best flush mount I've seen. Sure enough metal. I suspect their off-axis response ain't bad. On build iteration 1 long ago in my civic I had them straight up in my dash. 

Tested them on bench with some Tang Bands so I could test this old Eclipse amp I should get rid of as well. Those Tang Band W6-789E mids might be significant upgrade over those v-series NVX's as well. They're very legit. Italianstalyn (spelling) used them in his Clarity 2.5 floor standers. I've got three on the shelf. I loved them in the Civic doors and deck. Killed one of four removing it from the door because an MDF ring swelled on me and bent the frame. MDF rings = bad recipe. 

https://vimeo.com/151897201


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Babs, if nothing else, you've got me thinking outside the box. Now I'm steering more toward something like a Dayton ND140 or even the DC130B-4 (5.25). Judging strictly by the response graphs, I'm not too sure I'd notice a difference in the 2. And the latter isn't as deep - should slide right in...after I make new baffles. I like the Tang Band stuff too, but it could present a fit issue and I'm not willing to make wild modifications. Whatever it is, it's gonna have to fit behind the factory panels and require no cutting of the truck. I'm going to treat the doors & that's it.

Another reason I'm steering away from the TB stuff is that it appears to be geared more toward midbass & less toward the midrange. Maybe I'm totally wrong about this? Maybe something like the TB W5-1138SMF or W5-1685 and a decent flush-mount tweeter wouldn't leave me hanging in the midrange department? 

I'm liking what I see in the Dayton Classic though. Folks speak well of it. Plus it's cheap enough if I hate it. Not sure what to do about a crossover yet, but maybe something like the D26 for a tweeter & keep my current amp/sub for now. I can totally live with the sub. I'll work the extra rumble in later, but it sounds great right now and is far from a pressing issue. But the tweets are going soon, so I might as well swap out both drivers while I'm in there as I'm not hooked on the NVX woofer or anything...maybe use the NVX crossover for now & see how it goes.


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## speakerboy (Oct 2, 2007)

I have an 02 Tacoma X-cab as well, and a few components waiting to install. I'm excited to compare our budget builds once mine begins. Subbed to steal a few ideas from you.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Sweet - I'll be watching for this one


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Just dropping by for a quick update. I finally got the chance to spend a couple hours messing around with this thing. I had some motivation too. I borrowed a router to make these rings, but didn't have the hardware lying around to make it work. And it needed a bit. Then it occurred to me that maybe I had the blade locked the last time I tried to do this with the jigsaw. Turns out that's where I went wrong. After replacing the blade on the jigsaw & unlocking the rotating head things went much more smoothly. The router went back into its case - unused. 

Using the same pieces I started with last time










Once you get going, the surface is surprisingly good. Now to do the inside.










A few minutes with the sander and 2 rings! 










That also sort of illustrates why I don't work on this thing very much right now. There's de-icer or ice everywhere. Winter's just a pain when you aren't getting to ski :mean:

Trying to decide how I wanna do this. Originally I was thinking I might sandwich some protective something or another between the rings, but now I'm thinking maybe just something thin under grill cloth. This sits out a bit further than I thought it would.










With 2 rings. I may not use both of these...we'll see. My thinking was to use these to help keep things out of the sub by virtue of depth alone (along with grill cloth of course). 










A quick thought, as I'm trying to keep this low key, was to just try & use box carpet for grill cloth. A quick inspection of the carpet however changed my mind. It's way too thick. Grill cloth it is. So I guess I'll hit the local craft store the next time I'm close...which should be soon. 

Oh, and I stuffed the rest of the bag of polyfil in the box. I think I used about half before, which puts me a bit over 1lb/cube. 

We have some nice days coming up & work is slow so maybe I can get all this finished up before too long.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Chipping away...

I still needed an amp guard so I can toss stuff behind the passenger seat. And I guess in a pinch I can haul a passenger.

Seeing if I can get lucky with some scrap MDF from the enclosure build. I'd planned to use some thinner plywood, but the MDF should just fit.

Boing!










I think I can work with this










This will allow the seat to slide freely & protect the amp from whatever and still give it a little room to breathe. All this is only visible when the seat is slid fully forward. I think I'll trim my power wires back too.

Making sure the swing-out cupholder still has room to breathe. I could see it going altogether in the future & maybe taking this whole space to mount an EQ or sommat.



















Getting carpet. It's still kinda chilly out, so pressure seems to helps with curing. I got it all cut & glued & is curing in the laundry room. I made the mistake of putting the enclosure in the truck before the glue cured & thought I'd avoid that this time. It's kinda stinky.










To see how it all fits tomorrow.

Oh, the extra polyfil made a notable difference. Really glad I did that. I was way short of where I needed to be.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Build is coming along nicely!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks Babs! It's way slower than I'd hoped, but I always dig doing this stuff.

Looks like the carpet held just fine & I couldn't smell it in the laundry room this morning. Time to try out the amp cover in the truck. 










Looks like it's gonna work. I put all my weight on it last night so it should take anything I decide to toss back there. 










Oh, I forgot to mention in the last post that I found some fabric at the local Hobby Lobby, and it's as close as I could find to grill cloth, but it's no grill cloth. It isn't very stretchy although it appears to be mostly acoustically transparent. Looks like Ima just have to place an order. 

But since I bought some to play with, I decided to do a practice run with this stuff. I'm glad I did too. This is tricky business. 

The back - looking rough










The front looking just as rough. Among other nOOb mistakes, I think I used too much glue. In my defense though this really is a crappy material for this application.










It doesn't look as bad if you back off a bit.  Here's the general idea. 










Now to find some real grill cloth & wrap this up! Err, for now.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Not much building going on here lately. I'm still trying to round up some grill cloth & have returned to tuning. I never have been all that satisfied with all this. And so I start poking around with places in the head unit I never go...like LOUDNESS. I've typically always considered that a useless function & left it alone. However, in the spirit of trying new things, I pushed the button. It sort of gave me some good news 










All along the loudness, which I had refused to visit and to my credit sometimes hides among the menus, had been set to 2 . I'd been trying to tune around that. So it got turned off immediately and another couple trips taken through the menu to see if I missed anything else. Man, I feel like an idiot, but just glad I found it before I started chucking stuff. 

I rotated the tweeters back on-axis, set the HU EQ and levels back to neutral and started tuning again. The tweeters are still a little hissy, but only a bit of the time. Turning them slightly off-axis helps. I keep thinking a more efficient midrange like the Dayton Classic might be a good replacement. Might sound better too. These sound pretty good, but I've discovered they don't like to reach down too low. They seem to really wake up when I cross them at 250 Hz, but I don't like my sub playing that high (but that's from experience with ported enclosures...maybe I should give this time). 

Oh, that's another thing I started messing with. I'm not crazy about my head unit's crossovers (they seem to introduce noise) so decided to use the ones in the amp. With the sub & mids crossed @ ~250 Hz through the amp, along with all the other things I did, this sounds like a completely different vehicle. It actually sounds very nice. I thought the sub would be annoying playing that high, but blends right in & provides a lot of depth while still easily dispensing with the low stuff. Staging got worse as the tweeters are no longer aimed at the dash, but it sounds far better. 

I thought I'd be pulling the trigger on a new sub by now, but think I've talked myself out of it. The Sundown E8 has been in the shopping cart for some time, but have been hearing that it doesn't really like to play much above 80 Hz (and still sound good). Since I don't want to bother with the complexity of a separate midbass driver, I may have settled on the best subwoofer for my needs already - especially after that last polyfil addition...that made a YUGE difference. And again, so far feels right at home crossed at 250.

Jury's still out on the separates, but they sound WAY better than they did before. Stunning really the difference those tweaks made. I'll most likely stick in a set of Dayton Classics at some point as it's pretty much plug & play. I'm going to make some plywood baffles to replace the ABS ones in the door...might do that then. Gonna treat the doors then too I think.

Oh, I ran across an old photo of one of my old cars the other day. I was a little more of a basshead then This is my '89 Civic Si - circa 1992


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I've been thinking about how I wanna mount this grill & ran across something at HD today that got me thinking. I decided to pick up a pack of neodymium magnets for the chore. 










These things are crazy strong for their size. Seems like they'll work nicely.

A little super glue to hold the magnets to the ring










I forget that most things are produced at or near sea level. As they travel up to 5400 feet, differences in air pressures can spell trouble with sealed containers. In other words, the super-glue was pressurized & kinda shot out the tube unpredictably. Fortunately there was nothing too vulnerable in the way, but the practice grill took another hit. Oh, one of the surfaces on the ring was very clean prior to gluing the magnet. The other 3 I just kinda let happen after stripping back the cloth. None of them will budge. I've tried to get them off. They aren't coming off. 










These little things are pretty strong. I set up a little practice board to see how they'll perform with some screws with rounded heads first. 










In that configuration, they will hold all day, but when I banged around on the board, they started to vibrate and eventually came off with a lot of force...more than they'll ever experience in the truck in a driving situation, but still. So I went for some drywall screws with very flat heads, slightly sunk into the carpet. No matter how hard I hit the board it won't come off like this. If for some reason I need to take it a step further, I can glue magnets to the heads of the screws (minding polarity, of course). 

Enough with the practice grill. The one I intend to use getting magnets.










These things really are tiny. There are larger ones available, but I think these will get the job done. 










Still need grill cloth & practice with it a time or 2 before making the final one. Now to order some grill cloth - unless anyone knows where to find it in the Denver/Boulder area?


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Getting close now. I'd been riding around using various means to hold the enclosure in place, but today finally got around to bolting it down. It took a while, because I wasn't sure how I was gonna pull it off. I dreamed up a dozen or so bracket scenarios, but wound up going with 1/8 inch aluminum bar - 1 inch wide. This lets me use 2 existing holes in the rear seat mounts. I was going to use the seat bolts themselves, but they have a lot going on & squeezing in there was going to take some modification. But I got lucky & these 2 brackets are about exactly the width of my enclosure...which means I can use straight aluminum bar 










I decided to try my hand with staples instead of glue for the grill. This is what I'll be using once the grill cloth arrives. I got some inspiration from Milton & had a go with the ol' Swingline. Turns out it's just perfect for running small staples in this fabric. Hope it works as well with grill cloth, but I don't see why it wouldn't.










I'm going to use this fabric until the speaker cloth arrives. So far I can't tell any difference with the ring or without. The cloth seems to make no difference that I can hear and to my pleasant surprise there is no noise from the magnetic mounts! They stay put even bouncing around driving & hitting bumps. Securing the enclosure made a difference too. I didn't realize how much until it was done. Next time I'll do that sooner. 










Just a couple small items remaining. Seems everything sort of all fell together here at the end. I got my tune right. The enclosure mount came together nicely. The truck sounds great and to date I'm still well under $600 . Let's see, last time I left off at $539. I bought some aluminum & screws the other day for about $10. Grill cloth shipped is $15. So barring any further unforeseen expenses, the grand total of this build comes out to a whopping $564 . Boing!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I never ordered any grill cloth. Shortly after that last update I lost my job & decided that things like orders from Parts Express would just have to wait until I can find a new one. However today while I was out working on doing just that, I tripped across a Jo Ann Fabric store & decided to take a peek inside. Lots of fabric in that place and I hardly scratched the surface, but thanks to my 'guide' I didn't need to. After a few minutes and a half dozen things that might work, I found it. It even feels like grill cloth - kinda heavy & stretchy. And it's 40% off! Although I've been quite good about spending cash lately, I didn't figure $2.60 would break me and I'd like to get this done. 

In the case that you wanted to try this stuff for yourself, here's the particulars










It's much darker than the stuff I found before. And much less inhibiting. 

So you can see the difference in the fabrics - roughly the same distance & lighting

Old fabric from Hobby Lobby










New stuff from Jo Ann










Next to one another draped over my keyboard - single ply










On the sub. You see a lot less cloth and a lot more grey without the flash...I'll take that picture some other time. The grey matches both interior and box carpet better & provides less contrast. 










Yeah, so I neglected to orient the fabric in a way that works with the rest. Live & learn. I'm not taking this truck to shows or anything. I'm not going to pull it back off & do it again 'till I need to so as to put as few holes in the ring as possible. It _is_ MDF. Here with the flash again you can see just how 'transparent' this stuff is.










Another locally sourced item. Sweet!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

While I was out going through some boxes today I tripped across the mic that came with my home receiver. It's almost cheesy, but the only mic I have so I thought it was time to get familiar with REW. 

The cheesy Sony mic










I just wanted to run a test measurement to see if this mic even works. It's placed next to my right shoulder. This is at 250 Hz instead of the default 200 Hz cutoff point as my sub is supposedly crossed there. I'm not entirely sure what all this means, but can tell it can use some work. I'm gonna try a full-range test later, but my laptop needed a charge & I needed dinner. 


















































































All this new information, or at least access to it, may inspire me to get myself a real mic & some processing or at least an EQ. I think I'll play with this mic a little more first though. Maybe I'm selling it short. Either way it's fun to play with 

Oh, and I think I owe the fine folks at NVX an apology. I'm sort of liking this kit now. I still need more midbass, but they keep surprising me. I'm in no rush to replace them anymore.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So here's what I'm thinking is 'as good as it gets' at the moment.

Purple is on the right. Aqua on the left. Smoother blue line is average. 










A couple of things though. I'm not putting that much faith in this mic. I don't have calibration data for it and I don't know how adequate it is for this purpose. That said, it's made for just this thing...just working with no calibration data.

My tuning tools are horribly limited. I might as well be doing a valve adjustment with a hammer. The parametric in the head unit uses a few fixed points which don't address the glaring issues. I was able to use this setup to bring a few things in though. I shifted all the parametric values around a bit to try & flatten some of the curve, but 5k is untouchable for example. 

I need more control. And maybe a better mic or at least calibration file, but I'm thinking now that I'll shift future funds toward electronics first. I'm thinking something like an 80 PRS will help tremendously. The last time I put any effort into car audio, time alignment was just sort of entering the discussion for most of us. I missed the development & am really only now discovering its importance. I need more EQ control badly too. So I think instead of a major driver re-configuration I'll start by swapping the head unit & hopefully smoothing things that way. And damping...that's coming too...

Anybody wanna buy my DRZ so I can keep it going?


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So I'm coming around to another phase in this story. Some things are just bothering me too much. I'm still keeping with the budget theme, and around here extreme budget thing, but it's time to spend some more coin. I know how I'll do some of this, but don't have it all figured out & any opinion might prove helpful. 

First, my NVX 5.25 midranges are just weak. I know they don't have much power on them, but I'm making adjustments anyway. If I ask these things to play any midbass, they snort at me and I have a big hole just above that. At the moment, I'm thinking these will be replaced with the Silver Flute W17 6.5 inch wool cone woofer and new custom baffles. I'm going to keep the NVX tweeters and the passive setup for now, but this is all working toward an active 3-way setup. I intend to use the Lisa for the front end and find another amp for the sub - once I find an 80PRS or suitable replacement for my current head unit and another amp...but this is down the road a bit more. 

Sound treatments are also happening this time. CLD tiles are going on the panels, but I still haven't worked out the rest. I put a suitable quantity of MLV in my SDS shopping cart, but discovered it costs as much or maybe a little more to ship as it does to purchase. So the plan, for now, is to order CLD tiles and try to source something approaching MLV locally. I've found a rubber supplier who may have something suitable which I can just pick up in town. Any opinion or direction here would be appreciated. I'm looking mostly for a barrier to block incoming sound - in addition to ~25% CLD tile coverage.

But first the UPS man is coming to see me today. He's bringing me some foam baffles for the 5.25s in a last-ditch effort to squeeze a bit more performance out of the NVX mids. I'm going to REW the truck before and after install to try & quantify any difference.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Since I had the doors apart today I wanted to take a few pics I neglected to take last time. Still bare metal in the doors...that's sort of why I wanted to try this foam baffle thing.

ABS adapters/baffles cut from an old clipboard. They'll be replaced with treated MDF once the new drivers arrive. 










For scale










I was in there to drop in some XTC foam baffles. 

These are made for 5 inch drivers and fit these V-series quite nicely with a bit of breathing room in the back. Maybe account for a bit of parallax error & a crooked ruler if trying to measure anything 



















Over the ABS baffle - need to be cut down to size. These are very easy to work with. 










Installed. I cut a little channel inside the ABS so I didn't have to un-solder & re-solder the dinky little leads on the drivers. It still seals up nicely...not that the rest of the door is sealed or anything  










I took more measurements in the door, but don't think I'll post them just for my amusement. If you're working on a 1st gen taco or would just like to see them, follow the path of one of these images back to the previous directory. They're all there. 

Oh, while I was at it, I measured before & after. You can find more on that here. 

But here's the difference I noted before & after - for a Cliff's notes version. So far I'm finding it to be a worthy little update...perhaps a significant improvement, but I need more time to listen before I make that judgement. Either way, unless I've missed something it's well worth the price and effort ($15 shipped from PE) _in this application_.


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## bigharv (Mar 26, 2014)

I had the same problem with MLV shipping. I bought mine from tmsoundproofing.com. Shipping is included and it was the best total price I could find.

The install is coming along nicely, keep up the good work!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks bigharv. I'll give them a look!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I went with your suggestion bigharv. 40 square feet of MLV from TM is on the way here along with an order of CLD tiles, butyl rope and velcro from Don @ SDS (for the record I had a wonderful customer service experience with SDS). That really is far and away the best deal I could find on MLV. Everyone wants more than the price of the material to ship it, but a roll from TM ships for free. Yeah, you have to buy 40 square feet, but buying 20 from anyone else would cost the same. Now I have no excuse for not covering the whole truck beyond laziness .

Edit: After getting in the door & measuring some things, I decided a 6.5 inch woofer would not work without cutting up the truck. As I'm not willing to do this, I ordered up a pair of Silver Flute W14 4 ohm 5.5 inch drivers as well to replace the NVX woofers. This should help with midbass. I just hope they play high enough to meet the NVX tweeter. Unfortunately for me, the crossover point in the kit is privileged information. I'm guessing they're crossed at 3-4 kHz...which appears to fall comfortably in the W14's range - assuming the FR graph is accurate. We'll see. Hard to tell where they start beaming with the single-line graph.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Spring Santa showed up today - a few items from Sound Deadener Showdown.

Just real fast, SDS is killing it with packaging and shipping. This level of care in packaging is hard to come by. He also threw in a tile-size sample of his neoprene foam and MLV - which both appear to be top-notch. 

I had the opportunity to play with some Dynamat Extreme the other day and while the density was close, the constraining layer on the CLD tiles seems way stiffer. There's no plastic on the back of the aluminum like I've seen in some dampers. Everything to speak of is uniform and the pieces feel well-made and designed. Can't wait to see how they work on panels. 

The velcro appears to be top notch. In all I couldn't be more pleased with a box-trot. 










Before committing to the whole truck I wanted to try out what I estimated would be enough for the doors & x-cab. This should be enough for everything but the floor. I'm thinking 2 tiles well-placed in each door should gonna work? 3 to be safe? Maybe I should do 3. That'd be 3 in each door and 2 in the x-cab sides. I won't do the back for some time anyway - if at all. Lots of padding back there already.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

The Silver Flute W14s showed up today. I was debating whether to do all this in one shot, but decided to break it up & knock out the CLD and go ahead & install the new drivers. All I have left is MLV as I used up all the CLD tiles on the doors. Looks like I'll need a few more . 

No install pics today. It was cold & snowy out & I had to work in the cramped little garage. 

I'll keep this pretty quick as I just got in a little listening time, but did manage to take a few pics before I hid 'em away. Really nice build quality for the $20 price tag. I don't see how they sell this driver for $20 really.














































Compared to what came out




























So first impressions. 

Stunning. These have far more definition/clarity than the NVX. Guitars sound like guitars, etc. I expected an improvement, but this is something beyond just better. I disabled my sub to try these for the first time & ran them full range. I had to check a couple times to make sure my sub wasn't playing. These things DIG! The door treatments most likely helped, but the driver is doing most of this. It's just blowing my mind. 

Oh, I had to scrap the XTC foam baffles. The baskets are too big to go in. Can't wait to tweak this thing a bit & spend more time listening. Anybody wanna buy some cheap midranges?


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Made a bit more progress over the last couple days. 

First I wanted to share a graph though. 










The red line here is the FR with the old NVX woofer still in the door (in the foam baffle) and the subwoofer on. The green line is with the W14 woofer (no filter on the low end) in the door before MLV but after CLD with the subwoofer OFF. 

I got the MLV on the doors today by the way. I may do a layer of foam on top of this since it'll be so easy.











In all I think I have 4-5 hours in each door. That's CLD, MLV and new baffles. A good chunk of that was prepping the surfaces. I didn't find either terribly difficult or frustrating, but patience helps. It was kinda fun actually...except the cleaning part - that sucked. I found that a brand new blade in a utility knife was the best way to work with the MLV. Scissors worked best for the CLD tiles. YMMV. 

I'd been listening to the new woofers for a couple days and started getting used to them. However after hanging the MLV the character in the cabin changed dramatically. The 5.5s don't seem to make near as much bass, but they seem much louder in the midrange and they can play as low as they like at the moment. I had to turn up my subwoofer gain. Twice. After that though, things started coming together. I'm amazed at the way it swallowed up all that bass & midbass though. 

A short driving test demonstrated that's definitely a nicer place to sit and a good bit quieter, but now I can hear my motor more. That's where I was headed next anyway. Hopefully a layer as far up as it can be on the firewall & onto the floorboard will tone that down a bit. Big improvement so far though. And I have a bunch of MLV left


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I made a little more progress today. I really don't want to hang any MLV in the back yet as I wanna get CLD down first. But since I was hearing my motor more I decided to try the floorboard/firewall thing. The way I understand it I'm not hearing my motor more because it is louder, but because my cabin is that much quieter. It really is getting quiet in there.

I realize the general idea with MLV is 100% coverage, but I also understand that some in key areas can have an impact.

Toyota puts down some sort of attempt at deadening, but I'm not sure how effective it is. It's pretty rigid, so maybe it has dried over the years? Anyway, some CLD wouldn't hurt down here either, but I don't have any. This is just lying in there for now, so it will be easy to add later.

Under the carpet










18"x33" pieces fit in both sides quite well & required very little trimming. All I had to trim on the driver's side was a small notch for the factory carpet velcro. Toyota actually uses something similar to MLV that comes down the firewall & these overlap. I may fuse the 2 when I get some appropriate adhesive.










Of all the steps in this project this was far & away the easiest. The doors weren't hard, but required a lot of patience. It also made a profound difference. 100% coverage necessary my hiney. That little bit hushed up the motor, suspension and tires big time. I haven't had it on the highway yet, but around town it feels like a totally different truck. Like a luxury vehicle really...just nice & quiet. All this not only did away with audible vibrations, but it almost feels like I changed the truck suspension. It's just a totally different tactile experience. 

I'm sort of at a stopping point for now, but I think I'm gonna try running these tweeters off head unit power & giving this woofer the whole channel. It just needs way more power. Seems like every time I make the truck quieter I make the tweeters louder anyhow. 

I'm funding all this by selling off old motorcycle parts, so looks like I need to go sell a few more things. I'm ready for a PRS 80 and a new set of tweeters now. And another amp. Anybody wanna buy some lightly-used motorcycle gear? Or a more used motorcycle?


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

"I'm ready for a PRS 80 and a new set of tweeters now. And another amp." And just after this, his life was consumed by....."the hobby"


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

cadaver1 said:


> "I'm ready for a PRS 80 and a new set of tweeters now. And another amp." And just after this, his life was consumed by....."the hobby"


A neighbor walked by and chatted me up a couple days ago when I was out working on the doors. After he understood what I was doing, he said something to the effect of "whatever keeps you out of trouble" :laugh:

He's right though. I'm a much more patient driver when I have good sounds. 

And while I may be slipping back down the rabbit hole, I'm still using inexpensive components. I may have to step it up a little with the tweeters though...not finding too much budget stuff but this one looks promising. 

SEAS Prestige 27TFFNC/G




























I'd like something that can play lower, but those get pretty big. The truck's not so big.


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## Jim85IROC (Jun 8, 2005)

Those Seas tweeters are very good, regardless of price. I use them with a pair of 6.5" silver flutes in my Camaro.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

parts express has a vifa tweeter that starts at about 1300 fs for 15 bucks. (I too am a recovering audioholic) they are a little bigger than the seas, about 2.5", but not too ungainly.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Sweet, sounds like a ringing endorsement for the Seas.

I looked at the Vifa & pretty much everything PE has to offer & decided I'd probably need to make some pods for 'em. While I'm tempted and have already picked out a mounting location should the day come (a bracket off the bottom oh-**** handle bolt), they'd be even further away from the woofers. If I can be convinced that that's not a problem, I may try my hand at a set of pods. 

Thanks for the ideas!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I'd been sort of thinking what I wanted to do with the extra butyl rope and MLV scraps. I don't know why it took me so long to think of it, but the rear hatch panels are pretty cheesy from the factory. Time for an upgrade. 

This first cut was on the rough side, but I pressed it in anyway and unless it comes back off on its own I think it's there to stay. 










Running butyl rope around the back of the panel to decouple the MLV and as an adhesive and to add mass. This stuff gets really stretchy if you want it to and is kinda fun to play with.










Rope all on. All the tools I needed for this. I only needed the scissors to cut the rope










MLV on the panel. This first one was a little rough, but I think it will be an improvement in a few ways. It's at least twice as heavy for starters










Easily had enough from another scrap piece to do the big panel on the passenger side










Roping the back










This one looks a little better. It's also at least twice as heavy










That flattens things out pretty neatly on the back side. The clips need some love and maybe a gasket will come in handy, but that's something to think about.










I still have a little rope left. What can I get into next?


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Getting in a little more quality time today. I popped the driver's seat out and got to laying MLV on the floor under and behind me and on top of the transmission tunnel.

The big piece that will go on top of the tunnel










Luckily for me my floors are mostly rectangles and a piece 21" x 35" covers most everything. 

All the way up to the hump where the front seat bolts live










All the way to the back where it steps up for the jump seats and storage hatches (what I was working on last time). 










I'm using Gorilla Tape to hold all the pieces together. It's some pretty tough stuff so hopefully it will hold. I used butyl rope between the overlapping pieces and under contact points with the body.










This was the toughest and most tedious part yet. It's just tough getting half your body under the carpet, but as this is my only vehicle I'm reluctant to strip it. I don't have enough material to justify that anyway. I won't have enough to finish the truck, that's for sure, but I'll be able to get pretty much everything but the rear wall and it's fairly well insulated already - better than anything else in the truck. 

It keeps getting quieter, but the parts I haven't treated are standing out - mostly as wind noise. But I had the opportunity to stand on it a couple of times pulling onto the highway and with the tunes at a normal level I could not hear my motor. This didn't start as a quiet truck either. The suspension's a little stiffer than factory and I'm using E-rated BFG AT tires. They're loud and transfer more vibration into the truck than most tires would. 

Weather got me again today. I can handle cold and windy, but it started raining on me. Guess I'll do the other side some other day.

I'll say it again, the quieter I get the truck the louder these tweeters get. For giggles I rewired things the other day for a spell. I ran the tweeters off 2 of the head unit channels, switched the crossover to -0 dB from -3 dB, and gave the W14 woofer the whole amp channel. While nothing went up in smoke and I think it could work, I don't have any way to cross it on the upper end. It was just too obnoxious full-range with no EQ. Tweeters were loud enough off the head unit though. 

I'm really liking the W14 woofer. I can't cross it any lower than 100 Hz, which sort of hurts my feelings, but it's that or full-range with no subsonic filter. An 80 PRS would just solve all my problems. Someone remind me why I bought this cheesy, noisy Kenwood head unit? I haven't bitched about this thing much, but I'm starting to get annoyed by the menu surfing. It's aggravating and hard to navigate and skips over selections sometimes. Cut the power and this thing totally resets and defaults to a perplexing auto-tune. I still hate the control knob. It just feels cheesy & cheap & wobbly & imprecise. Other than that, it's just fine.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

You might just try different crossovers. I have a set of infinity beta tens that are 3500hz at 24db slope and a set of Polk's that are 3100hz at 18db. The seas play from 2500-20khz. Also, the 100hz crossover might not be so bad if you bump up the lowest band on your eq and introduce a gap in between your mid and sub with a shallower slope between the 2. I.e. have the mids play 100hz at a 12db slope with a bump at 60hz and the sub plays at 80 hz with a 12 or 6db slope.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

Unleeeeeeeeess, you just have your heart set on a dehp80...


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Heh, it's like you're in my head. I did go back and forth between a bump at 60 and 80 and settled on 80 (crossed at 100). The sub and woofers hand over quite nicely now and my midbass with the sub issue is no longer an issue. No more midbass from behind me . I'm still light on a couple frequencies, but stuff like Jaco Pastorius walking up and down the bass is now all there! I had BIG holes in that sorta stuff before. The NVX woofer just wasn't capable. 

I thought about different crossovers, but I'd really like to feed these W14s more power in an active setup. They seem to be pretty well settled in now and sound fantastic although I keep thinking I should seal the doors. Maybe I should just get that idea out of my head for now. The tweeter is too loud though and sounds like snot compared to the Silver Flute. I could take a gamble on another passive crossover network, but I'm pretty sure I wanna go active ASAP with a new set of tweets and an additional sub amp so everybody gets a channel. 

The whole floor and doors have MLV now, so all I have left is the rear. I'm really in no major hurry though as it's so quiet in there I can hear the springs in my seats. Found that my center console squeaks too...for now. I still intend to do CCF as well, but no hurry for that either. It might even be overkill seeing where it is now, but I just gotta know what sort of difference it will make .


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

You know what they say...there's no kill like overkill! One more thing you may try before you go active, move the tweeter down next to the woofer. I had gone active first and then went back to passive and applied active principles to passive components. No tan bueno. However, when I asked questions of Bing and applied passive principles to passive components, I loved the results. Strange.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

It definitely couldn't hurt to get a dedicated sub amp.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

You may even try bridging your components of your 4 channel, if the passives will handle it. Just turn down your gains.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I'm just using the passives now because it's what I have. I want a lot of control over each driver where passive gives me zero control beyond -3 dB of the tweeter (which isn't near enough for even that one parameter). I almost wanna install the PRS 80 before tweeters to see if I can haul them in. Then again, a good set of tweets might sound very nice out of the box although I wouldn't put too much money on it. 

Yeah, I could bridge the amp, but if I did that now, I'd have no subwoofer power and 170W/channel on what's there now. I don't want to give that tweeter any ideas. Head unit power for that thing was sufficient. I would like to throw the W14s a bone though - I understand they really wake up with a (relative) lot of power although they sound nice now.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

it almost sounds as if your the tweets are crossed over too low and youre experiencing separation because of the distance between the tweets relative to the woofers. I know it sounds silly, but you may ditch the passive you have and just add an inline capacitor to up the crossover point to maybe 4k or 5k and let the mids play full range. Wire them in parallel and get 85 watts between the two. That way, you can get away with one amp until you decide. You may end up using the low pass on the passives to tame the full range on the mids and leave the tweeter off the high pass so you have a quasi band pass on the mid to eliminate the full range aggravation.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

Looking at your amp specs, it wouldn't be a great difference in going 2 ohm for the speakers and would only exacerbate the bad tweet situation by giving it more power. A higher xo point for the tweet with only hu power, the low pass from the passives for the mid and a decrease in distance between the two may tide you over. It may require a couple of inexpensive solutions before jumping to the new hu.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Yeah, I don't know where the tweeters are crossed. That's privileged information apparently. They aren't bad enough to compel me to move them though. When I'm sitting in the garage in a very quiet environment listening carefully then I notice them. When I'm out driving around, not so much - they do a better job at disappearing then. And they aren't that bad. They're just too loud & edgy. Maybe just too loud so I think they're edgy. Way louder than the woofer that came with the kit and louder than the W14 but it closed the gap quite a bit as it's louder than the NVX woofer in every respect. I may just wire in a resistor on the tweets. That would be an easy short-term fix.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

I would say then, if the resistor inline doesn't work and you have the budget allocated for the hu and there are not going to be any other changes forthcoming in the immediate, changing the hu to gain active capability and still use existing equipment with new xo points and slopes may be the way.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

The head unit will be swapped, but since it's more me being picky than anything, it will have to wait 'till some things sell. Same with another amp and tweets. The resistors though - maybe I can afford those? This calculator recommends a 1.65 Ω resistor for a 3dB attenuation. I'm having trouble finding something near that value that will handle enough power though. The ones I'm finding that will handle enough power are enough of a chunk that I'd probably be better off just spending that cash on tweeters as they're like 1/4 to 1/2 the price of a new $40 tweeter. I kinda wanna try the SI M25, but am reluctant to place an order on something that won't ship for 3 months or more. But if I'm still looking then and I can find a pair, I'll likely go that route.

Eh, so maybe I just live with it for a bit and get more aggressive with my sale items (which I've largely ignored lately). Again, it's nitpicky and temporary and as long as I'm actually driving the truck it doesn't bother me so much. 

I'm working through another issue now. I knew I'd been hearing seemingly random clicking/ticking sounds before I swapped the woofer and treated the truck, but now it's even more apparent. I believe I've narrowed it to the USB sticks/reader, but have no idea if it's the fault of the sticks or something my computer did while it was ripping the lossless WAV files from CD or something in the head unit. If that traces back to the head unit, then it's going back to the store - with any luck for credit so I can get the Pioneer headed this way. I just need to try a few different things to isolate the source.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

I would say, the tweeters may not need a resistor or lpad, just a higher xo point. They have a range of 2k-20k, but from what you describe, it seems they are crossed too low and too shallow. I've had that happen and it will make you crazy.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Yeah, might be. I'd say more realistically Fs is around 2 kHz so they would need to cross higher. The general rule is about an octave above Fs, right, so ~4 kHz.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

That's the general rule, but deviation is you can drop 500hz per change in slope. If you aren't making any changes in equipment (IE getting new tweeters or different passive crossovers) it will probably only be resolved by the new hu. Short term, put a resistor inline to bump up the xo to 4k and still use the same passive crossovers. I've done this and it makes a type of step filter. The results weren't too shabby. I had a set of comps that had a 6db slope high pass at 4500hz and just used a 12db xo with the same xo point from a set of add on tweeters and it worked pretty decent.


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

I love a good low budget thread  Those mini magnets are great -- I use them for all sorts of stuff. You won't believe how many times I almost bought those V-series NVX comps, they were in my cart for weeks. I never did pull the trigger though, because I was planning on getting the deh-80prs and running active with the 5.5" Silver Flutes and the better NVX X-series tweeters. Seems like your experience with them confirmed my hesitations  I'm ordering my 80prs today *peer pressure* for ultimate control and to 'save' money


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Yeah Kraut I think you made the right call just leaving those V-series where they were. I think they'd be fine for most folks looking for an improvement over factory in a larger vehicle, like a bus, but IMHO NVX did a poor job matching components for that set...80 dB sensitivity with the woofer & 90 dB for the tweeter. And the _woofer's_ just sad :laugh:

How ya like your Silver Flutes? I'm thrilled to death with 'em personally and the miniature price tag just brings it home even more. Seems like they took a little time to run in and just got smoother all the way.

Glad you said something Cadaver 'cause I forgot that changing impedance will change crossover point. I could get lucky, but probably not. Without knowledge of the current crossover point, it would be pointless trying to quantify any of that. I think I'll leave it how it lies & focus on raising funds to pick up a few new things.


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

rob feature said:


> Yeah Kraut I think you made the right call just leaving those V-series where they were. I think they'd be fine for most folks looking for an improvement over factory in a larger vehicle, like a bus, but IMHO NVX did a poor job matching components for that set...80 dB sensitivity with the woofer & 90 dB for the tweeter. And the _woofer's_ just sad :laugh:
> 
> How ya like your Silver Flutes? I'm thrilled to death with 'em personally and the miniature price tag just brings it home even more. Seems like they took a little time to run in and just got smoother all the way.
> 
> Glad you said something Cadaver 'cause I forgot that changing impedance will change crossover point. I could get lucky, but probably not. Without knowledge of the current crossover point, it would be pointless trying to quantify any of that. I think I'll leave it how it lies & focus on raising funds to pick up a few new things.


Haven't bought the Silver Flutes yet, had to save up for the 80prs.
About your trying to find out the crossover points: why don't you just measure the individual drivers' frequency response with an rta? That should give you a fairly good idea about the passive crossover's crossover point.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

KrautNotRice said:


> Haven't bought the Silver Flutes yet, had to save up for the 80prs.
> About your trying to find out the crossover points: why don't you just measure the individual drivers' frequency response with an rta? That should give you a fairly good idea about the passive crossover's crossover point.


That certainly was a thought although my mic isn't calibrated. I can't do much better than relative measurements at the moment. I guess I could just generate frequencies in the neighborhood and get close though. 

Raising impedance would have the effect of lowering the crossover point though right? I'm considering this equation =>

Ω/2∏f = 1 (f=frequency)(substituting 1 for cap value)


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

Raising the impedance at the AMP will not affect your crossover point. Raising the impedance by changing the speaker(IE using a 2ohm speaker) will. Running things in parallel at the output of the amp will not affect xo. If you use a 2 ohm speaker, you will need to reconsider your resistor value


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

Are you planning on running two speakers on any one output of your passive crossovers?


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

Edit*- I meant reconsider your capacitor value.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

That formula is how I gauge my capacitor values. Where did you find the formula? I found it once and haven't been able to locate it


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

rob feature said:


> That certainly was a thought although my mic isn't calibrated. I can't do much better than relative measurements at the moment. I guess I could just generate frequencies in the neighborhood and get close though.


You neighbors will be like: "Yep, there he goes again, generating frequencies in the neighborhood. Whatever keeps him out of trouble..."


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

cadaver1 said:


> Are you planning on running two speakers on any one output of your passive crossovers?


No



cadaver1 said:


> Edit*- I meant reconsider your capacitor value.


I'm not modifying the NVX crossover...just thought of sticking a resistor on the tweeter output.



cadaver1 said:


> That formula is how I gauge my capacitor values. Where did you find the formula? I found it once and haven't been able to locate it


BCAE. Dunno if you know about that joint, but I've found it to be a great resource.



KrautNotRice said:


> You neighbors will be like: "Yep, there he goes again, generating frequencies in the neighborhood. Whatever keeps him out of trouble..."


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

Sorry, I thought you meant to stay passive, hence the question regards impedance. But yes, as you say, active processing has no hindrance regards impedance and crossover points.


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## cadaver1 (Oct 12, 2015)

Bcae.com is an awesome sight, that's one of the places I started


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

cadaver1 said:


> Sorry, I thought you meant to stay passive, hence the question regards impedance. But yes, as you say, active processing has no hindrance regards impedance and crossover points.


Naah, I was thinking of a temporary bandage to cool the tweets off a bit. Once active capability falls in my hands, the crossovers are going in a box. Or maybe I'll build some cheesy enclosures and make some garage speakers. I could use some garage speakers.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

For all of you local folk enjoying this incredible weather, you're welcome. I have no pressing install-related issues at the moment, so the weather should continue to be awesome until that changes 

In the spirit of staying cheap I removed the old foam rings from the factory speakers. It was a seriously tedious event, but you can't beat the fit and the price. I'm stunned that they came off as cleanly as they did.










Yet another use for butyl rope. It stuck to both the rings and the cutting-board baffles very well. 










I'm convinced that I can hear a slight difference as a minor residual vibration or 2 have gone away. 

I've been tweaking this thing a bit here and there. The W14 has changed things enough so that I just started from scratch with all the adjustments. The light blue line is with the NVX woofer in the sealed baffle and the sub on. The green line is the W14 with CLD tiles on the doors, but no MLV and the sub off. The red line is with MLV and some tweaking with the head unit's EQ and the sub on - as it sits right now. I gotta say it sounds damn decent like it sits. Plenty of room for improvement, but the best yet. It's to the point where everything I toss in, as long as it's a decent recording, sounds pretty good. That's a first. 










The big story here I think is MLV. I couldn't EQ that out if I wanted to. And I wanted to.










Quite a difference. Sounds like it too. Getting there 

Oh, I tripped across an interesting little nugget a few days ago. I'd written US acoustics with a question about the Lisa and got a reply back from Mike Nicholls. Like Mike Nicholls from Zed Audio. Just sayin'. 

Still haven't sold my bike yet, so no new toys for a bit. I had some guy offer me a gun for it the other day...some sort of 'tank killer'. :laugh: Good times.


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## MantaOwner (May 15, 2007)

Interesting reading.

Tõnu


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I suspect this microphone may be closer than I was giving it credit to giving me somewhat accurate data. I've spent a lot of time in the truck the last few days just playing with stuff in the garage...mostly listening then tweaking then listening again...rinse and repeat. Things are to the point where I'm hearing a lot of brand new things in reference material. The most pronounced so far is Roger Waters' _The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking_. Turns out I'd been missing quite a lot in that recording...lots of background information in there. 

Err, I'm getting off track. I wanted to see if I could verify what the mic is hearing regarding those to massive canyons just above 200 and 500 Hz. The trusty pocket tone generator confirmed that indeed right there where my head is those frequencies are muted drastically. Move to the right and 200 Hz gets even quieter. 500 stays about the same. Move forward 2 inches and they both fill right back in with 500 being less dramatic. Moving left brings them both in. I wonder if time alignment and/or phase changes might help here? I'm really close to pulling the trigger on a miniDSP 2x4 kit so I can at least get some good EQ and a more ideal high pass for the W14 as well as a subsonic for the poor uninhibited REX 8. The next step would be another 2x4 as funds for a separate sub amp & driver come along. Active crossovers WFT!

I also confirmed that I have mechanical noise in the RE sub. It may be from a few instances of hard bottom, but it's there. It's only noticeable in one song so far, but is apparent at medium volumes using test tones ~ 50 Hz IIRC. I'm sub shopping, but have more pressing issues. The sub is adequate most of the time.


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

Hey Rob,
You were asking in the Deh-80prs thread about a month ago:

"Any of you 80PRS owners know if I can run a sort-of 4-way active setup? I'd like to do stereo midranges on 2 channels, stereo tweeters on 2 channels, midbass on 1 channel and sub on 1 channel. I know it has 6 channels, but don't know if they're fully independent. Does the PRS allow that sort of thing?"

You were told no, but it's totally possible. All you do is set up the 3 way active front stage via the deck's crossovers, i.e. high pass the tweeters, band pass the mids, low pass the midbass, then like a sneaky bastard use your sub amp's low pass for the sub. You just need to feed your sub amp either a full range signal or the low passed signal from your midbass and it'll do the rest.
Obviously you won't be able to bandpass your midbass from the headunit, but if you're even more sneaky your amp has that provision.
I hope this information still reaches you in time.
Cheers!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Ya know, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the note. I'd probably need a cap or something on whatever wound up being the midbass though right as the PRS would see that as a subwoofer & as I understand it has no subsonic or high pass on that channel set. Err, looking back you said that already. The W14s help combat the midbass issue tremendously though and _should_ be even better once I seal up the doors. They'll get a lot more power once I can go active too.

I'm still struggling with the idea of single DIN and how to manage the space under or over one, so definitely not too late . Somehow I've managed to massage that clicking noise out, so I'm less concerned about the HU at this point. Maybe because the tweeters went back off axis again - this time more or less firing at one another. I'm probably even going to undo the -3 dB attenuation on the crossover. I'm pretty sure the Silver Flutes are getting louder. These are breaking in much more slowly than I thought they would (as in they're still changing their character). In a good way though. 

Since I can score a miniDSP 2x4 kit & miniDC for $92 I'll probably go that route & keep my head unit the way it is for now as adding another 2x4 for a 4-way or 3 way _should_ be a simple affair.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So the last couple days turned out to be unexpectedly fruitful. Not only did I just sell my motorcycle, but a whole bunch of other stuff sold around the same time. That means it's time to order some things 

Man, selling that bike was a ride. Of all the people who could have come for a test ride, I get a KTM-sponsored Baja racer come over to check out the bike for a friend. The phrase 'ride it like you stole it'...he redefined it. It was fun to watch though until I remembered he was on my bike. Always an adventure with Craigslist.

I'm trying to decide if I wanna do it all right now or sorta hold up on the new sub & sub amp. But if I wait, I can't go active. I think I'll just buy the sub amp & put in the new sub later. Maybe. It'll be going in the same enclosure after the baffle is adjusted. 

The new shopping list:

80 PRS
Pocket to go under 80 PRS
1 pair of Seas H1396 tweeters
1 Sundown SD 10 v3 D4
Some new sub amp...undecided here. On the short list are the Crescendo Symphony S600.1 and Alpine MRP M500. The Alpine's a good bit cheaper, but no subsonic filter. The MRV M500 has a static subsonic, so I may try to find one of those. Or I may just keep surfing the classifieds & try to find something there, but wanna stick to Class D for efficiency and size. This will have to go under the driver's seat along with some power distribution hardware. If anyone has any suggestions I'm overlooking, I'd love to hear about [email protected] ohms Class D with subsonic filter in the budget department.

I've been thinking about this like way too much every day & should have everything figured out, yes, but still think I'll take the weekend and think it over a bit more before going on a spending spree. Nobody ships on the weekend anyway. 

This will finally let me go active & finally let me tear out the NVX tweeters. Th is means much more power available all around. I sort of hate to switch to single DIN, but I'll get over it. There doesn't appear to be an alternative in a double DIN with dedicated buttons for common functions & a volume knob with modern features that isn't touch screen. I'd really like to put something useful under it, but that's an easy enough swap once I figure out what. I keep thinking a Macintosh MPM4000 would look nice there . I looked at scanners & the decent digital ones are in like the $500 range. There are much cheaper analog models for around a Benjamin, but question their usefulness as more agencies go digital. A shortwave still isn't out of the question, but that means an antenna and I don't want some big ass flagpole on my truck. Maybe a Pez dispenser? The possibilities....


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

Good update, congrats on selling your bike and my condolences at the same time...
You'll love the 80prs, they're cheapest from Jet.com (paid $211 a couple weeks ago with 15% OFF code + waive free return shipping).
Pioneer also makes a double din that has the same audio / dsp features but I don't recall the model #.
I installed the 80prs into my brother's 1999 4runner and put the pocket below it. He's drilled holes in the back of the pocket to feed a AUX and a USB cable through. He rests his ipod / phone in the pocket when he uses that as a source. The second USB cable went into the glovebox. Gotta love having a rear AUX-in plus dual USB ins.
Alternatively you could have a 1/2 din EQ fill the space below the single din. Like the Clarion or NVX 7 band ones that are around $55.
Also, the 80prs don't have no rootin' tootin' subsonic filter for the sub channel, so choose your amp wisely unless you'll always stay sealed...


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Yeah, this amp choice is killing me. I have poor self-control sometimes so I've already purchased the 80 PRS and a pocket, but after convincing myself there just were no alternatives. I do dig the 80 PRS - it's a seriously cool unit. I think I'll get over the double DIN thing quickly. The pocket will be nice as my truck has so little extra space. I'm already dreaming up scenarios for the USB extensions.

I did go the Jet route as they were a lot cheaper & I wanted to try their service. Supposedly they're coming along as an Amazon killer. I kept the free returns, but took the $30 off coupon and got a head unit & pocket shipped for $225. I asked around at the local shops, but not one single 80 PRS has been found in this 2+ million person market. Most had never heard of it...to be exact one had. One shop offered to order it for retail. I passed.

Oh yeah, the amp. Now I've got myself eyeballing Zed's Mikro I. It's about half the power of the Crescendo, but I'm wondering if I need all that power. 300W to a single SD10 wouldn't be that disappointing would it? And I'm still up in the air about a sub...maybe something matched a little better to the Mikro. The reasoning behind this is purely power-related...as in battery and stock electrical system. I think it would all shrug off the Mikro pretty well, but the Crescendo might start asking more than the stock charging can handle as it would put me close to a kilowatt on tap. I don't need that much more output, but something that can extend lower more comfortably. The SD just seems perfect for the job. I've also found a couple full-range 2-channel amps that have subsonic filters and would be more versatile going forward...haven't found a 4-channel yet though. 

I hope to get the amp/sub conundrum sorted by early next week so I can get some stuff here. I have to move at the end of July and would like all this to be 100% settled before that. Jury's still out on tweeters too. For me this part of the fun though. I usually hate shopping, but these are kid & candy store times


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## upgrayedd (Apr 19, 2011)

Babs said:


> The NVX X-series are a completely different animal.. I'd never suggest anything less than the X-series XSPTW and XSP65 components.. They're essentially SB29 tweeter and SB17 mids by SB Acoustics. Been loving them in my ride for a while now.
> 
> Interesting go at it was circle cutting.
> 
> Hey on tweeters I should mention I've got some SEAS Neo Alums and the cool old Vifa fabric dome car tweets with flush cups sitting around if you're interested in trying some different tweets on the cheap. Like these from an old thread:


Do you have any info on those vifa? I have a pair with no info on them. Sorry for the thread jack.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

upgrayedd said:


> Sorry for the thread jack.


No worries. Love the screen name


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

upgrayedd said:


> Do you have any info on those vifa? I have a pair with no info on them. Sorry for the thread jack.



Those were the D26 car version, but I've long since sold them. Sorry


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## upgrayedd (Apr 19, 2011)

Model was enough. Thanks


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

rob feature said:


> Yeah, this amp choice is killing me.
> 
> I did go the Jet route as they were a lot cheaper & I wanted to try their service.
> I usually hate shopping, but these are kid & candy store times


I know what you mean!
Good deal from Jet.com
Before I ordered mine from Jet.com I actually emailed Sonic asking if they could match / come close to the price because I'd rather support Sonic than the next Amazon, but Sonic didn't wanna play ball. At the end of the day I'm poor so I went with Jet.com 
Regarding your amp choice issue, I just re-read everything and it sounds like you're looking to stay ClassD for efficiency, don't want to spend a million bucks and might "only" be running a single SD10?
I'd highly recommend a 5 channel like the NVX JAD900.5
I know I'm biased because I've got one and put one in my brother's 4runner also. But consider this:
For $225 (Sonic) you get an underrated 70 x 4 @ 4 Ohms or 115 x 4 @ 2 Ohms plus the sub stage has 220 @ 4 Ohms or 440 @ 2 Ohms.
The numbers are very underrated. I can attest to that, but also Sonic's amp dyno results. But even if they weren't that's more than enough juice for your Silver Flutes and any tweeter. 
I'm running active, my JBL mids are 2 Ohm and their gain is almost at minimum. Even my 6 Ohm JBL tweeters' gain is only barely over minimum.
Your wiring is totally simplified with only a single amp for your entire system.
Also, 440+ Watts at 2 Ohm for the sub is plenty.
The icing on the cake is that with the 4 channel part of the amp you get one highpass, one high / low / bandpass. The sub stage has a subsonic filter (adjustable from 20 - 38hz) and ALL crossover slopes are 24 db / octave.
Also, again please excuse me for being biased, it weighs 6.5 lbs (!!), is tiny, doesn't get hot even after hours of cranking, and you could run the entire amp off of just one pair of rcas if ever needed (like if you wouldn't have more than one pre-out on a budget deck).
There's also a Precision Power version of the same amp for $199, the Phantom, and Polk has their own version of that amp but it's $100 more.
The only thing that sucks about the NVX is the sub channel remote is like an On / Off switch. I'm getting the Scosch rca level remote to cure that.
There are other good 5 channel amps, too. But at the same output & quality they're all way more, like double and triple the price (Arc / Alpine / JL / ID).
Either way, good luck and enjoy the gear shopping!


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

upgrayedd said:


> Model was enough. Thanks


Do you spell your name like that for a double dose of your pimpin'?


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

While I appreciate all that effort, my last experience with NVX sort of left a bad taste in my mouth. I've always been one to sample different stuff that comes along, and sometimes it bites me. Sometimes however it's very rewarding. Most of the time it's rewarding. One thing's for sure though - there's no shortage of it in car audio. So while I haven't heard too many bad things about NVX amps and I like the idea of working off one amp, I don't think I can bring myself to it. I'm 80% sold on the Zed Mikro I at this point. Just 80% though. I might as well see what's out there in the 5-channel department since I think I've talked myself out of a half kilowatt of bass as a necessity. There's another couple days. Thanks a lot :laugh:

I'm not set on that SD10 either. I just can't find anything that seems like it'll perform near as well in a small enclosure. Right around .6 cubes is what I have to work with & 6.25 inches depth to the back wall of the enclosure. It is kinda spendy though. I've decided to slow my roll with that decision & look at a few more things before I make that order. An MkIV would be fun and would fit nicely, but this is a budget build, remember?

I hear ya on the spendier amps and I get what a high end amp is all about. However I've never heard a Zed that disappointed me and I have a chance to own a pretty cool one that does right about what I need it to do for a decent price ($180 new for the Mikro). I can't wait to hear what the Lisa can do active too!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I get to scratch something else off my shopping list. I just pulled the trigger on a set of SI M25s. 

Pshaw this is getting fun!

And after another convincing session in the truck, I'm now 90% sure I'm gonna order the Mikro I and use it on the RE for a bit and see how that goes. Yeah, I find the limits of this sub on occasion, but it impresses the **** out of me quite a bit too. Ima see how it likes some EQ & a subsonic and a few more worms.

Good times


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

After looking at I think every new amp on the market today - as well as what's for sale around here, in my price range anyway, I couldn't find a 5 or 6 channel I wanted to try. Maybe down the road when I'm willing to step up for a really nice amp. Not that I think all this will disappoint. 

A brand new Alpine MRX M55 is on the way . I've been a long-time fan of Alpine amps & am really looking forward to this one. This will supply in the neighborhood of 350W to the RE, which is guaranteed to void the warranty, but this amp comes with a sub upgrade in mind. It's good for 550 or so at 2 ohms and should be a perfect fit should I decide to switch to the SD10. Or should be enough for whatever else I dream up. The likelihood of a sub upgrade very soon is high, but I want to see what happens with all this other new stuff first. Yeah, so I caved and went with a hotter amp after all. Doesn't mean I have to use it all. Proably will but doesn't mean I have to :laugh:

I still like the Zed, but a few things turned me off about it the more I poked around. Same with the Crescendo. It's really amazing the number of sub amps out there without a subsonic filter. It seems like this should be standard equipment on a subwoofer amp. For me it was an automatic disqualifier. Instead they all have bass boost . 

So, head unit, tweeters and sub amp are on the way! Picking up a few installation accessories as well. With any luck, maybe I can get all this done this weekend!

Edit: I need some caps for the tweeters too. It's the non-polarized electrolytic caps I need for tweeter protection, right? I was thinking ~100 uF (500Hz at 4 ohms) should be well enough out of the way.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I hate to say I told you so, but so far I'm batting 1000. Sorry once again for the poor weather we're having this afternoon :laugh:

None of my new gear is here yet, but I went ahead & started on enclosure 2.0. 










This is as far as I'll make it tonight. The wind was blowing like 60 mph in the garage. Lightning getting close. It's like the gods are taunting me - saying _no dummy, this is how you go boom_ :laugh:. Just as well though I guess. I'm getting 2 different numbers from Sundown's website regarding cutout diameter (9.25 and 9.45). I don't wanna cut the wrong one, so maybe I'll just wait & call tomorrow. Unless one of you knows? :ears:

This is essentially the same enclosure as last time, but it'll be re-oriented. It's going to be taller as opposed to longer to let me move my seat back further. With the current enclosure in, it's as far back as I'll ever drive, but I discovered this Winter when I was trying to put on ski boots in the driver's seat that I could use a couple more inches. Easy enough to do.

The initial plan was just to use the old enclosure, but as I started paying attention to the baffle I realized that I didn't make it big enough to take this sub. It would have been a wonky mount & sketchy mounts for t-nuts or inserts. This is a good thing though. Since it'll go right in the brackets I made up before, if I ever have trouble with the new sub, I have a drop-in replacement! 

Oh, I almost forgot - this is for a new Sundown SD10 v3 D4! I talked myself down from that whole wait & see tree. I let myself forget that that's the reason I'd been selling off junk the last few months - just so I could do this upgrade. Beyond that, down the road I may find some reason to talk myself out of it. Thus the deed is done. All the parts I wanted to replace are on the way. 

I guess I'll try tomorrow to finish this thing up. I've a little sanding to do anyway as these cuts are close but not perfect. After running around to a few local lumber shops to try & find someone to cut a few slices for me, I finally wound up at Home Depot. I talked the kid in the back into giving it a go. He took an hour making 7 pieces, but did his damndest to make them perfect. He refused a $20 tip, saying it would get him in trouble, but their receipts give you an opportunity to send feedback about specific employees. He got a sweet report from me - that kid needs a raise. 

PRS80 gets here tomorrow & the rest next week. I'm going to try & have everything as ready as I can to just drop it all in some time next week if all goes well. If I have it my way, it'll be a stormy one


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

PRS 80 showed up today 

Maybe it's time to comment on my first experience with Jet. I ordered the head unit and pocket last Sunday night. This stuff showed up Friday afternoon. I think it took the better part of 2 days to process but it got here pretty quickly after that. Zero complaint there considering free shipping and overall price ($223 shipped with the pocket). The box was in another box with 2 little squares of cardboard for _packing material_. The head unit and pocket were just stuffed in there loose and free to rattle about. Although the outer box looked like it had been used before, the head unit box was almost perfect. 

Head unit looks fine with the exception of a small scratch above the aux jack. It almost looks like a manufacturing defect, but small, insignificant and the only thing visibly wrong...which is to say almost nothing. I looked it over carefully for signs of previous install and it seems brand new.











All looked in order, so I wired it up & stuck it in the dash with the pocket tucked underneath. I think it classes up the joint a little. 










The pocket is smaller than I thought it would be, but for an 8 dollar way to fill that hole, I have zero complaints. Err except it came with no screws. It's only big enough to hold my phone or the remote - not both. But with the sticky cover on my phone it doesn't slide around and makes the perfect little home for it. Fit is really good and finish is good enough. I had to pop 2 little tabs off the top of the frame to get it to fit, but once those are gone, it pops right into the factory bracket. After you find your own screws 










I had to immediately turn my amp gains down quite a bit. I started with all settings flat & got the crossovers set. For the moment I'm still using passives on the front end. Starting with some reference material I noticed a difference in SQ right away. More detail in music, far less noise, just all around improvement. I didn't bother with auto EQ, but set the time alignment with a tape measure and made some minor EQ adjustments.

Sound stage is pretty broad at this point, but narrower than I'd like it to be. It runs the length of the windshield, but only seems to come up maybe halfway. This is a temporary configuration though and again a vast improvement over what was in there before. I knew that Kenwood was noisy, but it was more than that. I can't describe it really, but it's so much better. And there are still many changes coming.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Made a little more headway today. I fooled myself into thinking my sub amp would show up today, but as it turns out I simply read the shipping info incorrectly. Nonetheless I didn't figure this out until not too long ago, so I got to work on getting everything else ready. 

A few install items - compliments of Parts Express and the local Car Toys. Err, and one from wally world...yet another cutting board 










This one's going to be the amp board. I can't find sheet plastic around here to save my life, but this board may wind up being a pretty good size. I'm tempted to just toss it in whole as it's a pretty good fit and will allow for upgrades. 

Weather once again, but today it's really flippin' hot with no clouds in sight. Yet . Figured I'd lay out everything I'd need in the garage & do the pre-install work where it was much cooler.










Got the Lisa re-wired, ran more speaker wire & set it all up for active 










Dunno what I think about the caps mounted like this, but this is what happened










I sort of want to wrap up the whole thing somehow and make it a little neater, but will need to sleep on it. I may go back and solder at that time. 

The cover keeps it all protected though 










I think the Alpine's gonna fit all the way up under the seat and won't need such a cover. Fewer wires in & out of there too.

I got everything back in & about ready to turn on when I forgot I had to flip the switch on the PRS to network mode . Fortunately, I can get the head unit out of this thing in less than 5 minutes now, so it wasn't a big deal. Of course it was hidden up under the new pocket 

Finally got it all back in, turned the gains all the way down again, and fired it up. Everything is a go, but I'll be a couple days without a sub. But, I've ditched the passive crossovers and am totally active now! 

Very hot today, so it was a slow go. Since the amp didn't show yet, I think I'll wait for the board since I don't know where to put the mounting holes yet. Gonna work on the box tomorrow if all goes well. Tonight I'll work on pulling a few things together in the PRS. Sub amp Monday. New tweets and sub Tuesday. And I gotta get ready to move. Gonna be a busy week!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Made a little more headway on the enclosure. My compass isn't big enough to draw this circle, but the little hardware gage proves its worth yet again. Dead at 9.45".










Just insert screw and pencil and move it in the only way it will go  










Aaand a circle right in the middle










I hear a rumble in the distance. Is that...the Fedex man? :surprised:

It's the fedex man. Delivering my **** to the wrong address 

That probably looked pretty sketchy me walking to a neighbor's house and taking a package off the porch, but no cops yet. 

In the box was a brand new Alpine MRX-M55! 










My first impression is this thing is heavier than expected for such a small package. It seems to be well built.

Looks like it'll make enough power. According to the PRS, my charging system runs at 14.2V idling. 










If you were wondering what I was going to do with that cutting board I needed a handy way to carry the amp around 



















I'm not sure why I never tried this technique before, but it beats the snot out of removing the whole seat. The passenger seat in this thing is a breeze to get in & out but the driver's seat is about twice the weight and it's a funky shape. Gotta be careful not to put too much pressure on anything, but the seat found a nice little nook & just stayed there - like it was supposed to work like that.










The other amp board is up under the carpet, but I wanted to try above carpet this time & see if I like one way better for some reason.










It seems a bit more authoritative than the previous configuration. I guess it should though - it's twice the ponies at 4 ohms and about twice the Rex's rated power handling. I haven't been able to spend that much time with it, but I did throw a few songs at it where I thought it might have some difficulty and it just hurled loads of bass at me that I've never heard from this sub. I just started giggling. I'm going to have to keep listening to this thing for a while. 

Some time back I mentioned that this sub surprises the **** out of me sometimes. This is one of those times. I kept my expectations low, but this thing has been holding back. It just needed more juice. I'll have a few more days to listen to it too before I stick in the SD. I still need to finish caulking the enclosure & let that dry - then it gets carpet and that'll need to cure for a couple days to get the stink out. 

M25s tomorrow!


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

Lookin' good!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks Kraut.

Hit a good snag today though. I thought I might, but was holding my breath. 

A little brown box from SI showed up today 










Same Fedex guy. He came all the way here today 

Pretty things inside - pretty much identical in diameter to the NVX. Way heavier though. 










That bandaid in the distance. That was almost really bad. I was putting one of the tight-fitting sides on the enclosure yesterday & pinched part of my finger in there with lots of force. It bruised, blistered and cut it all at once. I could see way up in there. Mom would say that gets stitches, but Ima take my chances with a bandaid. So don't do that one at home kids. I did it for ya. It works. 

Here's the thing I'd been worried about though










I knew as soon as I took the NVX out that it wouldn't work as that rubbed part of the sticker is there because the tweeter cup was right up against the sheet metal. 










Pisser










So I'm left with some options. I can make a 10mm adapter ring and hope that it doesn't look like ****. It's reasonably flat there so maybe I could get lucky...might see if some of the old NVX mounts can be adapted. I can make a sweet pair of headphones out of these tweeters and get new tweeters. I can just do some dash pods already although I don't have much room. I understand that sticking tweeters up in that triple junction isn't the best place anyway...anyone confirm or deny? 

At this point, my though process says just order a pair of Seas H1396 or Scanspeak Discovery as had been originally considered. I think the curve on the door card is gonna make spacers difficult to get right, but almost wanna try first. 

Fek. More decisions.

That's what I get for not stickin a ruler in there first though


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Got the box all finished up today










I stuck that hole way up there 'cause I'd just ordered a right angle Speakon connector and plug, but just as I did that realized that stuff isn't sealed. I'll stick with the ol' wire through the box trick 'till I run across something like that that won't leak.

I took a guess that letting this thing hang out in front of a fan all day would help accelerate the de-stinking process. It worked great! 










My carpet's a lot better on this one. I realized some mistakes that I made last time & didn't make 'em again this time. This is the front - what is the most visible. 










It's a good thing I'm getting all this done 'cause the wooferman cometh!










Turns out those zipties had to come off & the wires had to run under the magnet...clearance issue. The basket is kinda wide. 

Out with the old & in with the new!



















Getting there










This gives me a few more notches on the seat rails - very welcome.

I took it out for a spin for a couple hours. So far so good. It sounds way better than the RE. I guess I expected better, but it's far better. Seems like it even helped with imaging, but as I'm moving all sorts of things around right now, who knows? 

I didn't re-align or EQ or anything...just turned the gain down a bit & drove for a couple hours. I've always liked to crank up the bass on Erasure's tunes and did this through at least one album. With the RE this sort of thing was a task and it protested a bit and showed me its limits. The SD just delivers another dimension to the music. Not a thing feels labored. It doesn't sound like a subwoofer - if that makes sense. 

And it's a work of art. I'm in love so far. Thank you Sundown


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## Errldaily (Oct 12, 2015)

Nice work love the yotas!!! I'm curious how the m25's sound and look there in the door I'm putting those in my 99 4Runner but was thinking about trying to glass them into the pillars. I'd like to see what comes next


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## MantaOwner (May 15, 2007)

rob feature said:


> .. So I'm left with some options. I can make a 10mm adapter ring and hope that it doesn't look like ****. It's reasonably flat there so maybe I could get lucky...might see if some of the old NVX mounts can be adapted. .. I can just do some dash pods already although I don't have much room. ..


Build some domes for your tweeters that attach to A pillars, sound wise it should be the best solution. It will take time and effort but the end result should be great. Random pic from Google:











Tõnu


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Yeah, I'm still wrestling with what to do about tweeters. I found some little rubber pieces at the hardware store that are used to join pipes which might work. I thought maybe wrap some vinyl around them to match the door. Or just leave it black to match the tweeter. It'll still stick out a little though & might look a little too, uh, aftermarket. 

I like the idea of pods, but the area up above the dash is very limited. The windshield is a pretty steep slope on these trucks. The big issue I see with pods is that they'll be visible from the front...just screaming _hey, this truck has stereo parts ripe for harvesting_. If I could make them invisible from the outside, I'd give it a go, but I'm afraid pods are out for this vehicle. 

I'm pretty close to building myself some new home cabs with these. I'm pretty sure they just won't go in this truck, but they're flippin' beautiful and for the coin I kinda wanna keep 'em. I really don't see how Nick sells this tweeter for what he does. If it were only a little smaller. I'm 99% sure that I'm going to use either the Seas or Scanspeak at this point. I think I've looked at about everything out there. Err, maybe I'll trip across something in the classifieds. Now that I've gone active and gotten things better dialed, the NVX is a lot less annoying than it was. I'm not in any big hurry to yank it out now. 

Actually the cabin is pretty damn pleasant at the moment...better than it has ever been. It's in that happy space where pretty much everything I throw at it sounds good. That clicking issue is still there though and more obvious than before. I talked to the amp vendor this morning who suggested swapping interconnects. In all fairness I am using some cheesy cables, but there is zero system/engine noise. But I'm going a step further. I found an Alpine PDX F4 for a song and I'm going to pick it up this afternoon. I need moar powers on the Flutes and the size of the Lisa is starting to bug me. Like the other Alpine, the PDX can hide nicely up under the passenger seat without the need for that cumbersome cover. And it gives me a little future-proofing should I decide to swap woofers. I REALLY wanna try & find a way to squeeze TM65s in the doors at some point down the road.

I've had a couple days to listen to the Sundown now. I can say with pure confidence that this is the best-sounding subwoofer I've ever heard. Everything it does seems effortless. It just oozes the low stuff without a hint of its location. Seems like I could hear the box with the RE. Or maybe it was so distorted that's what I was hearing. But I could always kinda tell where it was. Not so with the Sundown. It's in the same spot, yet gives no location cues. No flabbiness like the RE had. I mean, I knew this would be better, but it's a different class. Different league. It's not fair to compare the 2. 

Of course as an old-school basshead, I went there too - broke out all the old DJ Magic Mike. Yet again, just a stunning rendition. Through the years I've heard these tunes in hundreds of vehicles - mostly bassmakers. Not once have I heard it sound like this. And I think I got maybe halfway through the excursion. I guess this is the first time I've been able to spend a good bit of time with a well-built, nicely-controlled, low distortion, relatively high power low end. It's a thing of beauty. I wish I could articulate my positive thoughts about it more clearly, but words just can't do it justice. It's just amazing. 

The Alpine MRX-M55 of course is part of the story. This thing's a giver. I had a couple sessions yesterday working the SD pretty good for at least an hour each. As I was getting out both times I put my hand on the amp and it was ice cold! That's another reason I wanna switch to the PDX for the front stage. I've gotten the Lisa pretty toasty on a couple occasions. It isn't running a sub anymore, but still.....


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

That all sounds great, good feedback on the SD3.
Regarding the tweets: what about retrofitting some 3rd gen 4runner sail panels?
Is that a thing?
They seem to have plenty of depth for tweeters and it's very easy to swap tweeters with their steel bracket.


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## Errldaily (Oct 12, 2015)

KrautNotRice said:


> That all sounds great, good feedback on the SD3.
> Regarding the tweets: what about retrofitting some 3rd gen 4runner sail panels?
> Is that a thing?
> They seem to have plenty of depth for tweeters and it's very easy to swap tweeters with their steel bracket.


It's pretty easy to swap the 3rdgen 4Runner sail covers but ,just got to drill one hole for a plastic clip(just don't know if it changed after '01... I was planning on putting the m25's there but they are to big. the seas tweets fit with a little trimming, I was going that route first then the I saw the m25's and got ADD about the build. 

Anyways I'm stoked on seeing what your going to do


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Something to look into, thanks guys!

I got the PDX in the truck & verified no noise  but haven't had a chance to set gains yet. Gonna go do that here shortly. I really dig the connectors on this thing - makes install much easier. I wound up sticking another cutting board under there & mounting the amp on it. No pictures though 'cause it's hot as the Sun outside and I didn't want to pause for anything unnecessary. 

Not that I'd totally leave you all hanging without pictures though. Wanna see inside a PDX F4? Here ya go










Since I'm pretty sure there's no hint of warranty with this thing, and I got it butt-cheap, I decided to have a look inside. This thing's built like a tank...just a solid piece. I think the whole case is cast aluminum. This particular example is a little rough around the edges, but all seems to work just fine.

Can't wait to get in some listening time. I might just have to go for a drive :idea3:


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

This PDX may wind up being a regrettable decision. I've been out driving around for the last few hours just mostly listening and making a few adjustments. By the time I got back home I couldn't hold my hand to it more than a couple seconds. I don't think it would survive a long trip.

Plus it has turn-on pop. There's a very slight click when it turns off, but the turn on pop is pretty annoying. Not enough to damage anything, but the Lisa did not do this. I don't think I've ever had an amp that did this. I think this amp has issues. It sounds great, but I've never had an amp get this hot on me. And I wasn't even playing it hard. For a Class D I don't get it. The MRX warmed up a little on me, but the PDX gets hot. The side nearest the bottom of the photo above gets the warmest & by a good margin.

So there's a good chance the Lisa will go back in. And this will be the very last piece of gear I don't buy from a reputable dealer. Lesson learned.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

rob feature said:


> This PDX may wind up being a regrettable decision. I've been out driving around for the last few hours just mostly listening and making a few adjustments. By the time I got back home I couldn't hold my hand to it more than a couple seconds. I don't think it would survive a long trip.
> 
> Plus it has turn-on pop. There's a very slight click when it turns off, but the turn on pop is pretty annoying. Not enough to damage anything, but the Lisa did not do this. I don't think I've ever had an amp that did this. I think this amp has issues. It sounds great, but I've never had an amp get this hot on me. And I wasn't even playing it hard. For a Class D I don't get it. The MRX warmed up a little on me, but the PDX gets hot.
> 
> So there's a good chance the Lisa will go back in. And this will be the very last piece of gear I don't buy from a reputable dealer. Lesson learned.


I have heard of the pdxs running really hot. I think thats just their nature. Dont they also have that regulated voltage or whatever it is that puts out the same rms no matter the ohm load?

Have you checked your grounds resistance with a dmm? Some amps are simply more resistant to turn on/off pop. Its always a ground issue. 

If you have one. Run a battery charger to your bat and run the system for a few hours on its own. See if it goes into thermal protect.

Click might be a relay.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Jscoyne2 said:


> I have heard of the pdxs running really hot. I think thats just their nature. Dont they also have that regulated voltage or whatever it is that puts out the same rms no matter the ohm load?
> 
> Have you checked your grounds resistance with a dmm? Some amps are simply more resistant to turn on/off pop. Its always a ground issue.
> 
> ...


I guess hot's easy enough to fix - lots of room for a fan on the board and it seems like most of the heat is accumulating in one corner (in the area with the 3 caps sort of arranged in a triangle...err maybe that whole side). I have a little mini squirrel cage I could point at it. I do dig the amp. Noise is nonexistent, so there's a plus. The extra ponies really did wake up the Flutes, but I kept thinking the more I drove the more I needed to turn them up. Then again, I did climb several thousand feet & then right back down, so my ears may not have been so reliable. 

That gives me somewhere to start with the ground, thanks. I did run a fresh ground for this - had to re-do a good bit of the wiring. Maybe I overlooked something there. 

So okay, maybe I'm too quick rushing to judgement. Afterall, there's no traditional heat sink on this thing. It's just a little black box. A little fan back there might make a world of difference. 

Thanks for the ideas!


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

rob feature said:


> I guess hot's easy enough to fix - lots of room for a fan on the board and it seems like most of the heat is accumulating in one corner (in the area with the 3 caps sort of arranged in a triangle...err maybe that whole side). I have a little mini squirrel cage I could point at it. I do dig the amp. Noise is nonexistent, so there's a plus. The extra ponies really did wake up the Flutes, but I kept thinking the more I drove the more I needed to turn them up. Then again, I did climb several thousand feet & then right back down, so my ears may not have been so reliable.
> 
> That gives me somewhere to start with the ground, thanks. I did run a fresh ground for this - had to re-do a good bit of the wiring. Maybe I overlooked something there.
> 
> ...


https://www.google.com/search?clien...ce=browser-type&qsubts=1466231451380&devloc=0

So yea, not exactly uncommon.
There is always the obvious, are you sure your not clipping and do you have the proper sized wire?

http://www.termpro.com/asp/pubs.asp?ID=121

Very useful^

Use a dmm. Set to ohms. One probe on battery negative. Its okay to use a wire to extend from battery negative to probe as you'll probably need it. Just try not to use anything too small as it could introduce resistance. One probe on grounding point. Resistance should be under .5 ohms. 


Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Maybe?


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

rob feature said:


> Maybe?


A fan shouldnt be needed, thats the thing. An amp is designed to run under the heat it puts out. Honestly, unless your amp starts going into thermal protect. I wouldnt even bother with fans. 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Jscoyne2 said:


> https://www.google.com/search?clien...ce=browser-type&qsubts=1466231451380&devloc=0
> 
> So yea, not exactly uncommon.
> There is always the obvious, are you sure your not clipping and do you have the proper sized wire?
> ...


Yeah, that search was coming. At least maybe it's working perfectly fine & just needs a little air. 

It's wired properly and I set the gain a bit under 19V - which should be a little conservative. If it's clipping it sure doesn't sound like it. 

Thanks for the link. I'll give it a look.


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## Jscoyne2 (Oct 29, 2014)

rob feature said:


> Yeah, that search was coming. At least maybe it's working perfectly fine & just needs a little air.
> 
> It's wired properly and I set the gain a bit under 19V - which should be a little conservative. If it's clipping it sure doesn't sound like it.
> 
> Thanks for the link. I'll give it a look.


Yup. Follow that last link and I think youll be just fine. I havent read any the thread. You say you had noise before? That should of been very preventable. Generally its just really crappy equipment that introduce noise when all the wiring is correct. Isnt Lisa a new US Acoustic amp? 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Jscoyne2 said:


> Yup. Follow that last link and I think youll be just fine. I havent read any the thread. You say you had noise before? That should of been very preventable. Generally its just really crappy equipment that introduce noise when all the wiring is correct. Isnt Lisa a new US Acoustic amp?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


The Lisa has a little hiss that the Alpine does not (you know, like noise floor - only hear it when paused or in quiet parts of the music, between songs, etc). But the Lisa had no turn-on pop grounded in the same location. And the Lisa didn't get anywhere near as warm as the Alpine. No engine whine, switch noise or relay noise. 

Yes, the Lisa is a new US Acoustics amp based on old school design philosophy. It was designed and is still supported by Mike Nicholls (of Zed Audio). I didn't have any complaints about the Lisa other than the noise floor. Still don't. It's a good amp. I just wanted a little more power, small size was a lure and heat reduction was a nice plus. Guess that last one didn't work out so well. Not that the Lisa got hot anyway. I'll probably either put a fan on it or pull it back out. I don't like amps running that hot.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So this amp's ****ed. It got hot & went into protect mode with zero signal to it. I muted the head unit & just let it sit in the garage turned on. Even on the tender it drained the battery. Looks like I bought a glorified paper weight. Gonna look into getting it fixed, but dunno if it'll be worth the trouble. Maybe I'll get lucky & the seller will do the right thing, but I'm not holding my breath. That said, I get PMs now and again from people wanting to sell me used things. Don't waste your time. It will never happen again.

Gonna re-install the Lisa and be happy with what it is. I have bigger fish to fry. And now I have an amp to fry 'em on!

Edit: Factory refurb is $85. Considering what I paid, if I wind up stuck with it, I'm going to try & save it.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Yet another kick in the slats. My truck's clutch master cylinder just failed. I barely got it back home, but it's officially disabled. Clutch won't engage - pedal goes straight to the floor and stays there. I'm all bicycle 'till that gets fixed. Should be 100 degrees tomorrow. That's gonna be fun getting around. FML


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## Errldaily (Oct 12, 2015)

Damn sorry about the bad news... Good luck with the repairs a clutch job shouldn't be to bad


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Errldaily said:


> Damn sorry about the bad news... Good luck with the repairs a clutch job shouldn't be to bad


Thanks for the kind words. It could be much worse actually. 

First I think it's just a master cylinder. They aren't that expensive. Even if the slave's bad too, again not expensive and replacement doesn't look too daunting. 

This also could have happened in a much worse place. I'd been driving around trying to figure out what was going on & decided it had gotten so bad I needed to get it in the driveway and fool with it there. It failed right after that. That was lucky. That would have been a tow. Could have been worse.

We're laid out well for bicycles here too. And I like bikes. Lots of folks around me don't even own cars. Could be worse.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

As we all know, bad things come in threes. I had been wondering what it would be. First a bum amp. Then the clutch fiasco. As long as it's not a personal injury. That's the last thing I need right now as I'm supposed to start moving Friday. 

This morning I woke up with my left shoulder out of socket . Doing this repair and moving were going to be enough, but now I get to do it with a bum shoulder. This has happened a few times now - result of an old ski injury. I dunno how many of you deal with this, but it's a ****ty way to wake up when you have to roll over & do a Rambo at 5am. It probably either sounded like I was getting the best lay of my life or attempting anesthetic-free self-surgery. Sure felt like the latter. 

Got the Lisa back in last night. That was much easier since I left its mounts in place and bolted the PDX's cutting board to the existing bolts for the Lisa. All is well in 'paradise'  now. No more turn-on pop, no more hot amp - just good reliable sounds. I'm going to call Alpine soon & see about getting the PDX in for a tuneup. 

I imagine things won't change much for a while as I really need to focus my energy on other things. But I didn't want to leave any of this hanging. I want to get a grill on the Sundown as quickly as possible, but that's something to think about later. Time to go get to work on the clutch. Should have parts here Wednesday. With any luck I'll be driving it again by Thursday!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

That wound up being a reasonably drama-free event. 

One of these










And one of these










And about 3 hours and good as new 

I've spent a good bit of time listening to everything lately and thought I'd share a few observations.

The NVX VSP tweeters are no longer annoying. I have them rotated back on-axis now, but it still seems like they don't want to play so much over 10k. In all honesty though, I've done more listening than tweaking, so they could maybe get better. They sound much better than they did before. Maybe the crossover was stinkin' 'em up? I've heard of that happening.

Still no complaints with the Flutes. The more stuff I find with drums the more these make me smile. Staging is pretty nice now and has a nice foundation right on top of the dash - which is pretty cool. It comes up the dash about halfway. Most of the action is in front of the wheel, but there's a fair amount of separation. Vocals are detailed and abundant.

The SD3 is earning its keep nicely. It's equally impressive with any type of music. I can't think of a bad thing to say. All good things really. I'm using it well below its limits and even sometimes when I almost expect some flaw to present itself the Sundown responds with remarkable composure. It's far more than I need for this truck too, but really nice to have the headroom. 

Current draw with all this is pretty low - even with the A/B. And hour on the battery at a good clip is no problem. SQ is very nice although I'm missing a good bit of the top octave. 

Oh, I sent the Alpine in for service today. It'll be a couple weeks, but no rush. Shipping and insurance and repairs end up at about $107. 

Still a budget build? Let's see.

PRS80 - $215
W14s - $50
VSPTW - $35
SD3 10 - $200
MRX M55 - $140
Lisa - $150

TTL - $790

Add patch cables, deadening, connectors, carpet, MDF, etc and it comes to right about a grand as it sits. For the way it sounds right now, at a grand, hells yeah :rockon:! If I decide to use the Alpine, that will kick it up a notch, but all smiles right now.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So I'm packing to move and running across things I haven't seen in a while...like the little brackets that held the aftermarket headlight to my supermoto forks...with the help of one of these










What are the odds?










Turns out they're pretty decent. I needed between 5-6mm, not 10 as I'd suggested before. So I went & pulled a panel and pulled out one of the NVX tweeters and cut about half of that grommet away. Then fernagled a little mounting system and Bob's yer uncle 

Ehrmegherr I'm gonna get to use these tweeters 










I think it's a better fit than the NVX since the rubber gives a bit. The rubber is pliable though and sensitive to pressure. I need to massage out a funny spot as you can see here, but otherwise it's a nice fit!



















I've only listened briefly, but can tell it's a good bit less efficient than the NVX. The other tweeter will go in hopefully on Wednesday when it shows up. I'm pretty stoked about this discovery to say the least. Can't wait to give these things a good listen!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I got in a couple hours last night and have spent most of the day driving - with 2 different tweeters. I did an autotune last night with the PRS as the efficiency between the 2 tweeters among other things is way off. I looked at the settings before with both NVX tweeters, which had also been auto-tuned and the RHS tweeter (the one that's now an M25) was attenuated -8dB vs the left side. The M25 auto-tuned to 0 dB. Quite a difference. 

There was nothing subtle about it either. I thought maybe having one of each in there that they'd behave somewhat similarly, but the M25 flat out dominates the NVX. If I had to explain it I'd say that the NVX sounds like it only tries to play a few frequencies where the M25 gives a more even response.

Even with just one M25 in the passenger door, crossed at 6.5 kHz @ 12 db/oct, the difference is night and day. It really isn't as weird as I thought it might be with 2 different tweeters. It sounds WAY better than it ever has. Once I get the other M25 in the crossover point is going way down - maybe as low as 2.5 kHz, but some experimentation is in order.

There has been one downside. The noise floor got a bit higher as the hiss from the Lisa was apparently largely outside the capabilities of the NVX set. The M25 exposes more of that. Assuming all is well with the PDX when it returns, that should no longer be a problem. At least from what I can tell, that amp was dead silent. Then again, it was kinda broken . I didn't notice any noise driving today, but it's one of the first things I noticed in the garage last night.

I hate to go on about any of it too much as it's temporary, but the difference in pretty much every track I played today was dramatic - in a very good way. Once again hearing things I've never heard. It's going to be a long 4 days waiting for the other one to get back.


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## Errldaily (Oct 12, 2015)

Good to see your moving along, and that the m25's are sounding good


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks Errl. Yeah, it is much nicer having the option to drive the truck. That one day we got over 100 and I was running errands on the bike - that SUCKED! I hardly ever drove when I lived in Boulder - rode a bike or walked everywhere, but there's a lot more shade in Boulder. 

I dropped by a shop in Denver yesterday as I was passing by and have been sort of on the lookout for something to use as a grille. I mentioned that to the guy there and he offered only to make me a single MDF ring for $40 plus tax. So like 80 something bucks for a couple rings. After thinking it over a bit and realizing that I probably wasn't going to find a grille that fit without excursion issues, I decided to sort of repeat what I did last time.

Draw out a couple rings and cut them myself.










I had a couple extra pieces of MDF that were the same width & used them to make sort of a table out of the sheet I'm using to make the rings. It was this or the back of my truck. This works far better and is probably a bit safer 

I started having evil thoughts looking at this. You know what it looks like, right? I know what it looks like. While that would be fun, no. 










I'd been using finishing blades before with the scroll saw and it was taking forever to cut through and the saw was getting pretty hot. I just had a bunch of those blades so kept using them. I ran across a brand new and much coarser blade today and decided to try it. It slashed the cut time dramatically. I think each cut was 90 - 120 seconds - pivoting on the OEM guide. 

Gluing the rings










I'm not sure how I'm going to mount these just yet. It will be a good bit heavier than the last one so I'd need more magnets. That wasn't the best solution anyway. It stays on by itself, but if you bump it it will come off. I sort of want it to protect the woofer at least a little and if it's just moving out of the way, what good is that? I think it needs to be screwed on. Ooh, velcro! Velcro sticks to this carpet really well & I have a whole roll of it...plus some SDS stuff.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I sealed up the MDF & dug into the old fabric from last time to see if I had enough left. I had to stretch the **** out of it and there's a little kink in the back out of sight, but otherwise it went reasonably well. I had to put a lot of staples in, but all the little velcro tabs I stapled over the cloth helps hold it down nicely. 

As before, you can't see through it in normal light - only the surface of the cloth. That's just the flash letting you see the ring & logo. 










It's a little more significant than what it replaced and had to be to accommodate cone movement.










The velcro is far sturdier than the magnets. I put a couple dozen little strips all along the edge covering maybe half the surface. I tried to pull it back off for a picture of the back, but it wants to stay put. I don't think I'm going to force it until it becomes necessary. The ring is pretty tight against the gasket on the SD3 as well. It's not going anywhere. The cloth may come off as it's stretched so tight, but if it does, I'll run down to Joann and get more and do it again - no biggie. I'm totally happy with the result though and it really didn't take that long. And it was all paid for anyway. One more tweeter and an amp swap and maybe I can call all this settled for a bit. My move got pushed back a few weeks so I got that goin' for me.


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## caraudiopimps (May 4, 2016)

rob feature said:


> I sealed up the MDF & dug into the old fabric from last time to see if I had enough left. I had to stretch the **** out of it and there's a little kink in the back out of sight, but otherwise it went reasonably well. I had to put a lot of staples in, but all the little velcro tabs I stapled over the cloth helps hold it down nicely.
> 
> As before, you can't see through it in normal light - only the surface of the cloth. That's just the flash letting you see the ring & logo.
> 
> ...


Lookin' good man!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks pimps

The other tweeter got back & it went in the door immediately.










It worked out that install was really quick & easy for these once I found the spacer. 

I think they look a lot better than the NVX kit...sort of a heavy duty feel










As intended I crossed the Flutes at 2k and M25s at 2.5k both at 12 dB/oct. I'm not sure they liked it there, but then again the left one had never been powered up before and may have changed in character. Over a couple listening sessions I settled on crossing the Flutes at 2.5k and M25 at 3.15k. 

Seems like the new tweeter got quite a bit smoother as it played a while. After the initial listen, I stuck in a classical disc with lots of violins and whatnot and let it play on its own for a couple hours. That one tweeter seemed like it mellowed out quite a bit in that time, but maybe it's all in my head. 

At least for the moment my sound stage goes almost all the way up the windshield and beyond its borders on the sides and sometimes into the dash on the low side. Vocals are dead center on top of the dash - really cool. It sounds like I have a center channel. Separation is very nice and things are definitively placed on the stage - at least through the Eagles' _Hell Freezes Over_. 

Lots more detail all around, but I sort of expected that. Vocals have been the biggest improvement. Cymbals too and synth. The vocals though - just wow. Lots of detail now. 

The top 2 sliders on the GEQ had no effect on the NVX. Moving 20k with the M25 actually does something. I _can_ still hear that high! The noise floor is even higher now too - unfortunate yet temporary side effect.

Very nice so far. I think I'll go listen some more :guitarist:


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

Glad to read about the new tweeters being so good! That's money well spent.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Actually it seems like they've gotten even better. And certainly money well spent. I may need to score another pair of these. 

After playing with it a couple days, I'm holed up at a 2.5 kHz crossover point with 12 dB/oct slopes for both woofer and tweeter. I had the tweeter at 3.15 kHz (the next step up) and it sounded great, but I discovered that when I crossed the both at the same frequency, that the stage extends higher and vocals are amazingly clear and loud. Vocals really dominate the stage now! But not at the expense of the rest. They were all but missing when I started this. Okay, they were missing.

I've been driving around the last few days with my jaw on my lap. Sitting through a few of Ray LaMontagne & Micheal Buble's albums I discovered that I think I've found what I've been looking for. I'd been forwarding past anything Norah Jones because her voice was annoying with the old high end. No more. Things I've been skipping over because they just sounded bad sound great now. I've gone through a few hundred albums now with all this in and so far it does everything well. Very well. I really have to be outside the garage to notice the Lisa's hiss.

These tweeters just brought it all together. It just makes me smile a lot now. I haven't adjusted a thing in probably 4 days with the exception of bringing the sub up and down here and there. I think I need a RUX knob. Glare on the PRS' screen makes it impossible to adjust while driving and I have dark windows. Back on track for a second, nice job Nick. Like my thoughts on the Sundown, it's difficult for me to articulate my thoughts on them. Perhaps that will happen later. They're very positive - that much I can safely say. 

I come home and listen to my domestic stuff and it just sounds bad now . OK, not bad, but I looked at it the other day like 'what's wrong with you'? Then it occurred to me that the truck has gotten that much better. And since I've sold an amazing amount of stuff in the last few weeks, I'm treating myself to new cabs for the living room...using about $100 worth of drivers & crossover parts - materials to be determined. It'll be all DIY and my first ground up set of home cabs. I'm sort of excited about it . 

They'll get a sub too although I already have one I really dig. But as I don't yet own enough of Nick's speakers, I'm thinking an 18" DS4 would agree with me. It'll be a few months at least before I start that, but I've been modelling a few things & dreaming up what they'll be. That's the next best part to listening right? 

Ooo, I got _new_ wheels too, but the shop didn't get the new tires on by the time they closed so she's at a slumber party tonight. I found a very nice set of factory wheels off a 2004 locally for $100 and couldn't resist. These even match my paint . The old wheels, while not terrible looking, sat out too far and threw rocks at the rest of the truck and maybe even innocent bystanders 










The 'new' wheels as I found them










I got quieter and milder tires too. This joint is a bad influence on me . Seriously though, those E-rated BFG AT KOs will kick you in the everything just driving around. I just won't dive into sharp rocks with these new shoes .

Alpine sent me a refurb f4 today :surprised:










That was nice of them as the one I sent wasn't quite as pretty. It's out on the bench for a few tryouts. One down so far. It's getting warm with no signal, but not as warm as the last one and in the same place (side nearest the inputs). I'm trying a few different things to see if I can get temperature stable somewhere that I feel comfortable. I'm trying elevating it now. Next will be a small fan. I imagine if it comes to a fan, I'll elevate it and blow air around it. I just don't like electronics running that warm. Kinda wish I had the truck here tonight to get this done, but it gives me a chance to play with cooling scenarios...


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

K, so I tried a few things. Using a battery as a power supply, I tried the amp out a few different ways for an hour each. Nothing attached but power, turn-on and ground - to a battery on a charger. I don't have a good thermometer, so you'll have to rely on my finely-calibrated nerves for nao.

First go was flat on an MDF board. Pretty warm after 1 hour. I let it cool while I ran some errands. On the bike again 

Second go was on a set of 8mm high steel bolts. No discernible difference. Cooled with a fan for an hour.

3rd go with a small and very old computer fan - about the same temp as the M55 without a fan but stable after 1.5 hours 

If I'm using the PDX I'm using a fan - blowing under as well as above. That should create at least as much noise as the Lisa's hiss. I agree with an earlier comment at this point - it shouldn't need this sort of cooling. My A/B runs WAY cooler and so does the MRX. They're both more efficient. What gives? I'm starting to think this PDX business is not for me. Turn on pop - which may occur again. Running hot. I'm in no rush to replace the Lisa. Anybody want a PDX F4 straight from the factory's repair side? :ears: 'Cause I just don't see me installing this thing. 

It could be useful in a home setting though :idea3:. I hear Victor sells a nice power supply and he's a local. New home cabs. Getting ideas


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So the Taco had a reasonably major facelift over the last few days. 

From this










To this. Rumor has it this removes an endorsement from my mancard, but life goes on.










I was unsure about reverting like this, but am now 100% glad I did it since most of my driving is on the road anymore. Those KOs were really kicking my ass on our perpetually trashed roads. With the new and much more tame Discoverers driving is much less intense. Along with steering rack bushings and a fresh alignment this truck feels so nice now. It feels nothing like the truck I was driving early last week.

Ride height has been reduced by an inch or so which I'll place in the lightly populated negatives category. Then again, lower center of gravity is better on the road. Noise is maybe 25% of the ATs - a VERY welcome change. Handling is more responsive and the truck wanders less. It's MUCH easier to control - this thing was a handful before. I have a few long road trips planned soon, so this will come in very handy. I'll need to mind my manners when I go wheeling & maybe take 2 spares . Who knows though - maybe these rock in the rocks.

Looks - I dunno. I like it. I didn't dislike the way it looked before, but the tires sticking out always bugged me for practical reasons. These trucks are a dime a dozen around here, but sighting a more or less stock one is rare enough. 

I've been thinking a little the last few days about this journey and how it got started and where it is now...mostly about equipment choices. The truck has gone from factory sounds, to a light upgrade, to a larger upgrade to where I am now - which I don't feel needs any improvement at all regarding the way it sounds. 

As it sits, I roughly doubled the original budget of around $500 if you discount deadening materials...which was a great improvement over the factory kit, but left me hangin'. Small price to pay I'll say. Knowing what I do now, I could do it all again for around $1,100. That's minimum buy-in for an amp for quite a few of you 

I have no plans to replace any equipment right now, but am toying with the idea of putting the PDX back in if I can solve its heat issue. I can tell it's going to take some creativity, but with the reduced cabin noise from the new tires, there's less to overcome. I'm not even sure I need it now. I'm driving it up to upstate Montana in a couple weeks - that should tell me one way or another.


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

Looks good, I like the new wheels better as I'm a OEM+ kinda guy.
It's hard to tell from the pics, but the old, bigger tires looked like too much tire for the amount of lift. Did they rub under full articulation? Do you disconnect your sways for wheeling?
Less road noise is nice, too...


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Yeah those tires were a little big. I did rub on the frame at full lock and in different places offroad. There's no lift on this truck with the exception of the 1" leveling notch on the Bilstein 5100s. On that - there are 3 notches for the front strut: Factory height which is about an inch lower than the rear; 1" which levels the truck (where it is now); and 2 1/4" for those adding a leaf spring to bring the rear up with it...or just for that bro lean :wacky:

No, I don't disconnect anything. This truck's pretty capable offroad in stock form. I guess when I say 'wheeling', I mean going places I couldn't take a car, but not rock crawling either. I go camping in places which require long treks through terrain only suitable for high ground clearance vehicles and you really need low gearing unless you wanna toast your clutch. With a few million outdoor types on the Front Range, it's the only way to get away from people and as it turns out a pretty reliable way.


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## Errldaily (Oct 12, 2015)

Looks good! I got cooper discover at3s pretty quiet tire and stable, it's been good and durable for what few trails I've gone down with them. How do you like the billseins been thinking of doing a little lift on my yota. I got cheap Monroe struts now and they're to soft... 

Anyways sweet taco wish I could give it a listen, I'm curious how the tweets sound there in the door apposed to my plan of gassing them in to the A pillar. Doing fiberglass sounds more daunting everytime I think about it but I need a good project!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks Errl. The Billies will probably solve that soft problem for you. I find them to be on the harsh side with the BFGs, however I need to re-assess after the new tires & wheels. One thing I was hoping they would help me with was washboards, but they may have made it worse with the old tires. Only way to smooth that out is speed (although that's sort of problematic when considering the way they form). But after I get the time to go offroad I may have a different opinion. I was gonna do that this weekend to get out of the heat, but the place I was going (15 miles to the west) is on fire . I installed 5125s at the same time and had one spring a leak the day after the 90 day warranty expired, but other than that no issues. I was given a replacement for cost which was nice and they're silly easy to replace on this truck.

I wish you could hear it too. I'd really like to solicit some opinions from some folks who get into all this at some point as opposed to most of my friends who are happy enough with factory gear. If you ever get to the Denver/Boulder area, holler. If there's ever a local show I think I'm going to go have it judged just to see. I enjoyed the competitions I did in the past. I think it sounds amazing. It's exceeding my expectations. I think the tweets have an awful lot to do with it too. Hard to say what they'd sound like on axis. I wouldn't mind knowing myself, but they sound quite nice as they are.


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## Errldaily (Oct 12, 2015)

Probably what I'm going to have to go for I need to replace the back end but going to have to swap for landcruiser coils to compensate for weight of the amps & subs. All in all I'm not exactly sure how tall it will sit, so adjustable upfront would be great. That's future though I'm focused on audio atm. 

Unfortunately for me I'm still a noob in car audio and its not really a big thing around my area ( eastern WA) but still enjoying every bit of it!!! When I start doing some more I'll have to put some pics up and see what you think.

Btw your plastic flares look in really good shape. Did you paint them mine where sun faded grey and I went over them with some spray can bed liner, looks a lot better but the little bit of extra texture makes dust stick to it which is constant in my area.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

You know, around here, I feel like a nOOb myself even though I got into this over 20 years ago (with a generous hiatus). The talent and expertise found here truly blows me away. 

There's a little trick to the flares. Are you familiar with Ru-Glyde? I think it's sold exclusively by Napa Auto Parts and only by the gallon (which is enough to last most people a lifetime). I learned about it through the motorcycling community. Its primary purpose for me, at least at one point, was mounting tires. It makes that SO much easier. It's the most perfect tire lube I've ever tried and also the cheapest. 

But it's also a rubber dressing. It isn't quite as shiny as something like Armor All, but I never cared for that high gloss anyway. Maybe once every couple months I'll dab a little on an old sock and massage it in the flares. While I'm at it I usually hit the tires, window seals and any other rubber that looks like it needs a little love. Supposedly it helps extend the life of rubber and some plastic parts and certainly improves appearance of oxidized or otherwise damaged plastics. Works for cable routing as well if you're dealing with something like doors or trying to shove wire through conduit. There should be a gallon issued with every garage.


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## Errldaily (Oct 12, 2015)

Thanks! I'll have to give the ru-glide a try! 

You are right the knowledge here is so much. Few forums have this much help . Wish i had found this site sooner but all in all its been a great learning process and made me love and respect the hobby even more!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

A wee update here - mainly because I wanted to mention a couple things. 

I cleaned up the wiring a bit on the Lisa today as I'm back to a point where I can work on stuff again. I wasn't sure if I was going to reinstall the PDX, but after a bit of consideration decided that it wasn't for me. It moved on to a new home. Grill cloth is still holding up well, which surprises me considering how tight I had to stretch it...which is pretty much at its limits.










The caps are still just kinda sitting there, but I'm at a loss as to what to do with them so there you have it. This is still all covered by the little amp box, but I didn't like the exposed wire back there for a few reasons. One of these days I'm going to replace this amp with something that will totally hide under the seat, but that's still a work in progress. 

The big reason I'm dropping back in to update is that I remembered that I forgot to mention something before that could be helpful to others doing this. I like my zipties. I use them in places they probably shouldn't be used, but in this case they're at least appropriate. 

As I was doing this I recalled a maintenance writeup I did in a motorcycle forum some time back and was sort of shocked that nobody else used this technique. I only discovered they didn't after mentioning this step and having a bunch of folks tell me this had solved problems for them. 

When you cut a zip-tie with wire-cutters, you're likely going to get a sharp edge. That might be fine in some situations, but the edges on these can be annoying and in some cases can get you into trouble. I found this out the hard way as I'd failed to dull the edges in some stem wiring in my Dakar and wound up cutting through 2 wire jackets which exposed the wires and led to a short. Beyond that, they can leave some nice little cuts on whatever skin happens to brush by them. 

So a lot of words to say this, but I keep a lighter in my toolbox. Once I cut the zipties, I give them a quick shot with the lighter and those nasty sharp edges become well-behaved little plastic nubs which will no longer cut your hands, wire jackets or get hung on clothing. I'm sure many of you already have some cure for this, but it has been the best solution for me. Just don't catch yer ride on fire, eh.










I wanted to share one more little thing while I'm at it. I bumped into SDS Don on another forum and shared what I did with the butyl, MLV and hatch covers. As it was of some interest to him whether they would stay in place through the Summer, I thought maybe someone here could benefit from the post as well. 

The panel with the large piece of MLV hasn't changed - at least as far as I can tell. 










The smaller piece oozed a little, but that just happens to be where I grab the panel to remove it. Perhaps placing the butyl a bit further back would keep this from happening. 










On that, I can really tell now that I need to finish deadening the truck. The noise from the back is obvious now...maybe more so since I changed the tires. Or maybe it's because I spend more time on higher speed roads. It's quieter overall, but I think that accentuates the rear noise more. Need to order more CLD and get some MLV on that back wall.


Edit: now that I look at that large piece, it seems much smoother than when I first put it on - which would suggest that the butyl has migrated out a bit with heat and time. When I get a chance, I'll try and get that picture at a similar angle and lighting to see if that's what I'm really seeing.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I may have finally found a replacement for the Lisa. I'm going to check it out tomorrow and if all is well, it's coming home with me 










The amps will have to switch sides - putting the McIntosh under the driver's seat and the MRX under the passenger seat, but no biggie. It should actually let me totally hide both of them.


Edit: the McIntosh is too big to fit under either seat :uneasy:. Pisser. Back to the drawing board. Looks like it's gonna have to be a small Class D to fit all the way up under there.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

After a bit of searching I found an amp that mostly solved all my issues. I scored a dinky little JL XD 400/4 from a local guy. Kind of a pisser that you have to fuse it externally, which takes up more space, but thankfully the plywood under the seat that I used for the previous amp was oversized & made this a bit easier. I had an old fuseblock lying around from my very first install in like 1989 & found the room for it next to the XD. 










I think I'm going to Techflex the power wires & signal cables, but don't have any lying around so that'll need to wait 'till my next PE order. Actually I think I'm going to take a stab at making my own cables, but for now the signal cables are just gonna ride on top of the amp until I work out a cleaner solution. I'll be pulling it all back out anyway at some point to properly secure all the MLV and install more in the rear.

So I mentioned this solved most of my problems. All but one. It let me get everything hidden under the seats which counts for both theft protection and gives me back the use of the passenger floorboard which I badly needed. It's probably a wash regarding power consumption between this and the Lisa, but gives me 50% more rated power. This amp doesn't get hot like the PDX did. The caps fit very nicely & it's almost like they were meant to go there, but any bigger & I'd have to figure something else out. Score!

But...it has a turn-on pop like the PDX did. 2 actually. It isn't as loud as what I experienced with the PDX, but it's there and it pisses me off. It's barely audible, but there. Again, the Lisa never did this. The PDX had one loud pop. This one has 2 soft pops. So this must be something I'm doing wrong. I moved my ground to a better location and installed a star washer after prepping the surface, but it's still there. I guess my next step is to find a jumper and run it straight from the battery and see if that solves the problem. I'll run a ground from the battery if I have to, but I'd prefer to not do that. 

I haven't gotten to spend much time dialing everything in yet, but set the midrange gain with a multimeter at 17.4V and pulled the tweeters in by ear. Although the adjustments are on the top of the amp, the orientation allows full panel access when the seat is all the way forward! The sub needed to come up quite a bit to match. It sounds very nice at this point. Like the PDX there is no detectable noise floor. Now if I can just get this turn-on pop figured out maybe I can leave this thing alone for a while. I think I'm going to keep the Lisa around instead of selling it off. It makes a good backup & other than the hiss and slight lack of transparency it served me well. I doubt I could get very much for it anyway.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So it has been a while since I've done anything to the truck. Work has been insane, but we've hit out slow season and now I have time to do stuff like work on projects I started in the past. 

I thought it was about time to work on the rest of the deadening & finally got around to ordering some more CLD tiles. I also got to thinking I really wanted to have a go at sealing the doors.

The original idea was to use some cutting boards to fill the 2 larger holes in the doors but as I started looking at the door skin more closely I realized that the openings were not flat and would require some sort of 3-dimensional thing to fill the hole. Sheet metal might be possible, but would require some tricky cutting and bending to get it right and would probably cut me to ribbons in the process. 

Since I wound up buying 40 tiles, more than I think I need to finish up, they were really the only thing that really made sense. I've seen people do with much thinner materials before and as I'm overlapping a good bit I'm thinking it'll work out just fine. It's pretty stiff once installed.

I wound up using 6 tiles in each door to do this and had a whole tile's worth of scrap left when finished...so really 5.5 tiles each door. I had already treated the door with tiles previously - this was just the sealing. As I bought the tiles at a discount when they were out of stock, I spent roughly 12 bucks plus some shipping so 15 bucks per door to do this. I also used a couple zipties and the loop side of velcro to decouple surfaces. All in it took about 4 hours. 

Sorry about the grainy photos - my camera was set at 1600 ISO for some reason.



















I only got to listen for an hour or so but WOW what a difference! I can't believe I waited this long to do this! I was pretty happy with things before, but was lacking in the midbass department. This seems to have solved my problem in a big way. Drums are authoritative now. The low end is far punchier - just smacks you in the chest. The Flutes feel a lot more controlled. Played full-range without the sub they make enough bass to shake the rear view mirror. It kinda seems like the Flutes would like more power now too.

Seat of pants tells me I don't even need to re-tune. This just brought in a whole lot of what was missing and seriously enhanced what was already going on. Best use of ~$30 evar!


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## KrautNotRice (Nov 2, 2015)

Lookin' guut!


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Danke Kraut

So reflecting on this since it started, and really since I started playing around with this stuff at all, this is one of those profound moments. Yeah, people go on and on about sealing doors, but people go on about everything. Not that I doubted anyone...I just didn't realize how much of a difference this would make. It should have been obvious as I've played countless speakers free-air, but it just never made the priorities list. This won't happen again.

After getting to spend some quality time with the truck and make some changes, it's pretty easy to say that this is the single largest improvement as physical changes go and right up there with gaining the tuning abilities of the PRS80. And I needed them. After sealing the doors I immediately needed to cut my sub 2 notches, but that wasn't enough. I cut 80 and 200 by 2 dB and 125 by 4 dB! After that I kicked the sub back up one notch, but just sealing made that much difference. That was all by ear mind you and may migrate.

Imaging has been improved - especially with drums and bass guitar & stuff in that range. A good deal of it was missing and now it's right up above the dash where it should be. Placement is better-defined as well. I want to mention the drums one more time. It's hard to define how much drums have come to life and carry far more impact than before and cleanly. Bass too, but drums are just so real now. Vocals have always been strong and well-placed but this did something for them as well. Seriously people. Seal those doors!

I am genuinely curious about the difference in a technique like this and one which uses sheet metal or some other more rigid material. Considering that it's impossible to really seal a car door and keep it functional, I'm hedging my bets on the idea that the difference would be nominal with a 5.5 inch woofer sporting 3.5 mm of xmax on up to 75W. 

Thinking toward the future though I really would like to try a TM65, and would give it the power it deserves. That might set me up for a re-do, but if the day comes, I half-ass promise to do my very best to quantify the difference.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I got a in another session the other day. I had a few things I wanted to get done and although I couldn't do everything I wanted to do I could at least put in some CLD tiles and survey the rear area for future maybe projects. 

This had gotten to be a priority as the bump in bass & midbass from sealing the doors made some existing rattles even worse. The rear quarter on the driver's side was making a lot of noise. 

For all I know this is the only existing picture of the rear quarter cavity in a 1st gen x-cab. 










This was one of my goals - to explore the size of this cavity. It has the airspace for a stout 6.5" sub easily...maybe a port too, but sealing it would be quite the chore. And I'd also need to build a baffle and cut some plastic. I'm also pretty sure that hole down to the bottom left is a vent as there are none on the rear wall. That's why I didn't seal it. 

You could put an amp back here too. And one on the other side. Or a DSP. Hey, I found a spot for a Helix DSP!

As you can see I put a bunch of CLD tiles on the wall at maybe 70% coverage. It may be overkill, but these panels seemed like they needed it. There was some factory stuff in there that was peeling off. I got most of it out, but wound up going over a couple small spots with tiles where it wouldn't come off. It may have resembled butyl at some point, but most of it was hard and brittle. I needed to pull the factory speaker baffle to get all of it out. About 1/3 of the cavity is stuffed with open-cell foam from the factory. While some was a little dirty, there was no mold!










As the plastic card has these plastic waffle thingies inside, I wanted to make sure they stopped making noise. They were the source of a lot of it. I fed pieces of garage door foam and mousepad between the plastics to decouple them. This was a real pain in the ass and took a good bit of patience and a flathead screwdriver. Good results though and pretty much free.










The seatbelt slider thingy is another monster and doesn't seem like much can be done for it. I stuck some CLD on it - maybe that will help. You can see more foam stuffed between plastics in the above photo. Also note the black almost horizontal stripe at the top of the seatbelt slidey thing. That's where one of the factory butyl 'dampers fell down...the other side fell off too. They cover holes near the roof.










Another popular source of rattles is these clips. One way to stop this is take a little bit of butyl from either a rope or from a scrap piece of damper. A ball the size of a pea is probably about right to do 2 of them. Seriously - takes just a smidge. Stretch it out so it's about as thin as you can get it without it breaking and wrap it around the inside of the mating surface of the clip 2 or 3 times. Then stick it back in the door. It's also less likely to pop out when you're re-attaching the panel.

More changes are on the horizon as well. I just bought a new JL XD 600/6v2 which should be here in a few days. This will mean 200W each for the mids and 75W for the tweeters. I'm going to see how the Flutes like the boost although this is a lot more power than their 60W RMS rating. Also likely going in soon is a pair of Scanspeak Discos, but again I want to see how the Flutes handle the extra power before swapping drivers.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Got in a little more quality time today. Our slow work season is still dragging out and I have lots of free time on my hands. The next 2 are maintenance days, but today I dedicated to the stereo.

Last time I only had time to get the driver's side rear quarter done, but today I finished damping the passenger side and the rear wall. Still don't have MLV back there, but wanted to see what I was getting myself into first. It is on the list, but when I finish the MLV, it's gonna be a job...like I need to tear out the whole interior to get it right and I'm not sure when that's gonna be practical. And I need materials. I need filler foam, decoupling foam, MLV, and I'm going to rewire when I do that too so again - a project. 

The damper in the passenger side was mostly intact - unlike the driver's side which was all over the place. You can see it's a pretty big chunk & sort of 'perforated' in a checkerboard pattern. Some had separated from the door skin and was just hanging on to the rest. Some fell into the abyss below. It's pretty hard at this point and could have been making noise in the cavity. I knocked on the cavity before and after removing it & didn't really notice much of a difference. This cavity has a good ring to it when you tap on the panel untreated. 










Most of it came off pretty easily by hand, but there was some stubborn stuff remaining. I tried a screwdriver, but it would only remove a little section at a time and could scratch the paint. 










One of the panel poppers in my cheap HF kit to the rescue. It worked pretty well, but chewed the tool nicely.










Finally all removed. It was a PITA, but that panel puller seems like the right tool for the job.










Anybody want some free 'damper'?










The top holes were still clinging to their butyl/plastic sheet combo on this side. Recall they had fallen from the driver's side and were just hanging there. 










The rear was on its way to falling and the adhesive from it has done some melting. This boys and girls is why TS2F goes on about heat tolerance so much. 










I meant to take some pictures during re-assembly, but sometimes that just doesn't happen. Looks mostly like the other side though. That and I did about 70% coverage CLD tiles on the back wall. Didn't take any pictures of that, but did make a mental note in the process. CLD tiles are difficult to get to conform to the ribbed and contoured surface of a rear truck wall. Next time I do this, I'll use CLD sheets or something similar that is more malleable. I spent a considerable amount of effort getting the back wall as good as I think I could have gotten it. It isn't pretty, but it should get the job done. I'll try to remember to take pics of that at the MLV install...which could be a while. Don't hold your breath. 

As I was working in the back today I managed to semi-destroy one of my tweeter's caps with my clumsy-ass boot. Turns out that I ordered 3 when I was planning everything out and today it came in handy! 

Looks like my new amp should be here Friday. There's plenty of likelihood that it will wind up in the truck shortly after it gets here. That should keep me busy for a little while. I still need to re-tune too since sealing the doors. I'm not quite nailing it by ear - need to get a mic back in there. Might as well wait 'till I get the new amp in. 

I haven't driven the truck since finishing the damping, so have no idea how that's gonna feel. When the weather's nice, and it usually is, I try to run errands & such on my pushbikes. Looks like we're back to work Friday so I'll have some driving to do then. I'm pretty sure also that the seat belt slidey thingie is the source of some persistent vibration and will have to be dealt with. Looks like it will need to just be in a static position. I'm not pulling these panels again until I can do more work though. They're manageable enough, but require plenty of patience and the removal of lots of stuff. This is a job for a jockey. I feel sorry for large installers :laugh:


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Seriously - Class D has to be one of the best things that has ever happened to car audio. The new guy showed up for his first day on the job and I can't get over how little this fella is










Not only that, but well organized and quite flexible. Man I love these XD amps. 6 channels, capable of 3,4,and 5 and 100 worms out of each one. The size of a textbook.










It's almost 2 inches longer, gasp, but I'm going to be able to slide this one right in where the 400/4 is sitting. Score. Depth is the same. Height is the same.

I guess once i do this I officially join the kilowatt club. Between the 2 amps it's 585+550 for 1135 worms in the can. Fun as it sounds it may present some issues. A battery and big 3 upgrade are going to be needed soon. But, I'm trying to figure out how to work a different alignment with a much larger vented enclosure and a different driver. I may not need as much power on the sub in that case.

I have maybe a quarter tank of gas on the new treatments now and so far the difference is notable. More than notable actually - really approaching significant. I used to have some funky noises coming from back there - just didn't know they were coming from there. I don't know if they originated in or were transferred to that space, but the dampers alone changed the character of the ride. The truck feels more solid - far less noisy and less like a truck although I notice the wind more now. Overall suspension/road,etc noise seems to have been reduced notably. This was a nice upgrade just finishing up the damping on the vertical stuff.

I also decided to start looking for some 5x7 drivers for the doors. That'll let me maximize cone area. And if I wind up using the ID X57, or something very similar I'm hoping the phase plug will help with the off-axis response a bit. They should also let me use all that power productively.

But first to see how the Flutes respond to an overdose


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## thereddestdog (Feb 21, 2017)

Looking good! I'm definitely going to steal this idea when I get around to installing my trim panels


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## nadams5755 (Jun 8, 2012)

thereddestdog said:


> Looking good! I'm definitely going to steal this idea when I get around to installing my trim panels


I put some small pieces of tesa tape on the body panel around the clip hole. It's enough to get rid of the play and stop rattles. I do the same around the sheet metal clip holes as well.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks for the tip on the tessa tape. Seems like I've heard about that before, but I don't have any here anyway. Might have to score some though 'cause I like that idea of using them on the sheet metal clips. 

I got the 600/6 in today. No pics of any of that as things got tricky, but I did manage to clean up the wiring a little more and put one more layer of protection on. Among a million other things, sometimes I wind up rebuilding A/V racks at work and get to keep all the stuff that gets pulled out if I wanna - like open-ended tech flex big enough to bundle everything but the RCAs. I have a decent stash of it by now and am installing it in the permanent locations as I go. 

On things getting tricky, for some reason my laptop's output on the right side is fuxored and led me first to think I had a bad RCA, then a bad output on the PRS before tracing it back to the laptop. So that consumed an hour or 2, but since I was in there I went ahead and installed the other USB extension I had here so I can have 2 sticks in the PRS at any time. I keep debating whether I want to install outlets in the dash and get these out of the glovebox. Then again, since I can use them both now, I hardly ever need to access them unless I'm reloading. 

I think I have all the gains set where they're gonna be. It still needs some EQ work, but gains and some mild EQ settings was good for today - wanted to go ride my bike too.  Err, I piddled with crossover points too, but got hungry and abandoned ship. Tomorrow I will probably get to spend some more quality time. 

So far I'm digging the 600/6v2 with the exception of one detail. I once again have a noise floor. The XD 400/4 was dead silent, but this one, the NEWER version, has a slight hiss. I only notice it the motor is off and windows are up and I'm paying attention, but needless to say I'm pretty disappointed by this in the newer version. It may not bug me enough to swap yet again, but we'll see. It's one of the reasons I removed the Lisa...certainly not the main reason but one of them. Oh, and after a few hours close to the new amp with it running all the time, it stayed cool to the touch, so this isn't all a sad story. 

Power is certainly higher. I set the gains to take advantage of every bit of it on the Flutes - which should mean about 200W each. I almost tripled the amount of power available to them with this amp swap. So far they seem to like it just fine. Right at home actually. I had heard that the 6.5 was a good bit underrated so took a chance with the 5.5 and so far no issues. Time will tell of course, but I like it to this point. It still doesn't seem like I'm drawing that much current. Maybe these amps I'm using are just that efficient? At 1150 available watts, my electrical system just doesn't seem to care. I can listen at moderate volumes and my little motorcycle battery tender can keep up. This is no complaint - just an observation...a nice one. 

I don't know that I'm going to get in a big hurry to swap drivers just yet. The Flutes just needed more power I think. And seriously, after comparing t/s parameters on literally every decent woofer than PE and Madisound sell, I'm not convinced that I can make a significant improvement by swapping these drivers with some other 5.5" option. So I think it's EQ time tomorrow to see what I can do with the new horsies.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

After overpowering the Flutes, I discovered a couple things. First – they did need more power. But not that much more. While they do take good advantage of the extra power available, I can still find their limits when I really crank it. That and they have a sorta muted honk about them on some songs that I can’t seem to EQ out. 

I was pretty sure I was gonna replace them, but had stuck in my head that I’d either need to use a 5x7 – which I was having trouble finding or a ~5.5”. One weekend I wound up stopping by Victor’s (Victory Sonics) to check out some of his awesome gadgets & tripped across a pair of TM65s. For some reason I’d been thinking they were bigger. They very much got my attention even free air sort of. Turns out that if you ask Victor nicely, he’ll make a baffle out of his body and point the driver at you. I went straight home and ordered a pair. Looks like they should be here in the next month or so & will be installed promptly on delivery.

The door sealing method seems to be holding up just fine & the Flutes still really dig the upgrade. I still have some buzzing in the doors at some frequencies at higher volumes, but pushing on the door card makes them go away. That’s making me think I need to get some ccf in there. Speaking of – I’m still shopping that. I’m down to 2 choices – 1/8” Ensolite or Neoprene from Foam By Mail. I’m finding the neoprene to be more economical and might be more durable. I know from my kayaking & water skiing days that it’s a great thermal insulator. Given Colorado’s temperature extremes, that’s a big plus. Neoprene sort of seems like a no-brainer, huh?

Here’s a quick price comparison. This is the non-peel/stick version of Ensolite to keep things fair. 

_FBM Regular Neoprene_, 1/8”, 80” x 48” = 3840 sq in @ $21 == *183 sq in/dollar*

_Ensolite Regular_, 1/8”, 36” x 56” = 2015 sq in @ $13.96 == *144 sq in/dollar*

You have to buy a little more, but the neoprene is 27% cheaper. Even more in favor of the neoprene is free shipping at $75 as well as a variety of thicknesses from which to choose. I think I’m going to buy enough to put on the floors too as well as enough to cover both sides of the MLV in the doors. I might also get some thicker stuff to stuff in the rear cavities. 

About those rear cavities. I’m still keeping an open mind to using that area for subs. I’m going to see what I think of these TM65s that everyone’s going apeshit over and evaluate their worthiness as a subwoofer. I could easily stick a pair of these back there and use them as subs & would totally recover 100% of the space in my truck! Err, OK, so it would not be easy. I’d need to fab up a couple enclosures or somehow make that metal space work. I’m skeptical to be honest. Not that I don’t think I’ll love the woofers – expectations are high. I just know me and skeptical that they can make me happy in the deep end. 

Since we’re going there, I’ve been rethinking that department too. I’ve been playing with some designs for ported boxes. At the moment there are 4 contenders …the Sundown SA 8 or 10, Audiofrog GB10 or 12, Dayton HO 12 or JL 12W6. However I want to see what life is like with the TM65s first before I go doing anything drastic. Also, since I’ve increased the frequency of the subsonic on my sub amp to somewhere around 25-30 Hz I seem to have more headroom in the sub. 

I gave ‘er a tuneup a few weeks ago as I hadn’t really tried to dial anything in since sealing the doors. It needed quite a bit of adjustment. I also played with timings a bit and realized my sub delay needed work. Seems I needed to be taking the measurement from the distance of the opposing surface as the sub is firing away from me into the passenger side of the x-cab. The actual distance to the sub is about half that so it made a notable difference. 

I’ve been thinking a bit more about the front end as well. I’d really like to stick in a real DSP – probably a Helix. I’d also like to have a head unit that fills the DD hole & have to admit nav would be nice. But whatever it is, if it happens, it will have to have a volume knob and basic dedicated buttons which doesn’t leave me many choices. But. I hear the SI kit is very well balanced and may not require tons of EQ to bring home. We’ll see. One thing at a time.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So the Sundown SA10v3D4 won the sub war this time around. I should have a brand new one here some time Saturday. 

I'm just going to go ahead & build the vented box for it. Go big or go home 'eh? I haven't built a vented box in a long time so this should be interesting. This will be my first with a slot port. I want to do this right too so I went out & bought a new toy










These bits should let me do what I wanna do. The sub will be mounted on the front of the enclosure either behind me or the passenger - haven't decided yet. I plan to use the straight bits to recess the sub into the double baffle. Roundover bits are for the right angles on the ports & possibly on some more ring grills and maybe around the driver. 

Got another new toy to help out with the cuts. This is an alternative to a saw track and I can use the router and jigsaw with it as well. 










Looks like it'll be pretty easy to use. And it's a whole lot more compact that a table saw. Useful in the field even. 

There are a few projects I wanna build with these so justifying their expense was pretty easy. It's have someone build all these things for me or do it myself. That's always a no-brainier. 

Turns out the Flutes might have a little too much power on them after all . I'm pretty sure I damaged the driver's side driver as I was hearing some ticking from it today. It still sounds okay if I keep it reasonable, but if I try to rock out I can hear it. I don't want to push things before I can get new drivers in so I think I'll take it easy 'till the TM65 fairy shows up. I hear that won't be long now. But I'm on borrowed time with that speaker. I gotta go out of town for work for 2 weeks soon though, so maybe with any luck the new woofers will be here when I get back.

Also picked up some cloth Tesa tape, some white electrical tape for labeling and some splicing tape. I'm not really even sure what splicing tape does, but was sure I had to have some. FWIW, I got the Tesa tape for what seemed like a great deal...3 rolls for $10 shipped through Amazon. It had to come from Lithuania or some ****, but got here in 6 days. If there's any interest I'll look that up & post it. 










I have all the parts here to make my patch cables now. I'm in the process of collecting a Helix DSP, so all of the cabling will get re-done when that gets installed.

So much for one thing at a time, eh? :laugh:


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I didn't get as far with the enclosure as I wanted today, but there was a learning curve...and then some.

Spent a few hours this morning finishing up the design & making a cut sheet. I spent at least 2 hours just surfing Home Depot. Came back with 4 sheets of MDF and some screws 










I'd have another toy, but turns out I'm gonna have to order my circle jig for the router...can't find anything in stores around here. 

But I made a little progress on the enclosure anyway. Cutting some wood & trying out the new guide










So first impressions of this thing are less than impressive. It's tricky to operate, comes with no instructions, seems to have stopped working after a while, and scars easily so taking it back is only a maybe. The handle also rotates to the bottom to [attempt to] lock so you have to keep the rig suspended as well. It was manageable enough with a portable table and tailgate, but so far I'm not impressed. It actually stopped my progress today. I still have a couple cuts to make, but it stopped working & ate the rest of my work time trying to figure out why. 

I did get the enclosure panels mostly done. Just need to cut the 2 vent pieces and baffle then start the router work. Can't finish that 'till the circle jig gets here though & that'll be next week. 










Hard part's done though. I complain about the guide but it did let me make square cuts so that everything fits nice & tight. Maybe I'm holding my mouth wrong. A few more hours to finish up & with any luck I'll be listening to this thing early next week. Still a few items to check off: gonna seal all the exposed MDF with wood glue, paint the visible parts of the vent, carpet the enclosure, gotta make a mounting bracket, install t-nuts, etc. People who complain about the cost of quality custom enclosures amuse me  it really is a lot of work.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Playing with some new software. The hardware should be here Tuesday . Not sure when I'll have time to install & tune, but looks like I have most of next week off all of a sudden so maybe?


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Got a little bit further with the box today










I'm pretty much done cutting but realized that I can't get much further without the router jig and it won't be here until next week. I may also re-cut the side with the port as it should have been 3/4" longer at the port exit. Devil's in the details 

Speaking of devil - here's the 'clamp' on the Bora










Those little black plastic things that you can see on the inside of the track use this for traction










Or at least that's the idea. It mostly works if you hold both clamps tight while pulling the lever, but it's pretty tricky to keep it lined up & do that too...particularly with small pieces. 

I've probably complained about SAE (inches, feet, etc) in the past, but in the case that I didn't, here's why I hate it. 










Work stalls here for a while. With no router & an upcoming trip it will be several weeks before I can proceed with this probably. With any luck there will be a pair of TM65s here by then?


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Well hello there 










I love how tiny and light this thing is. Now that this is here I can do a little re-arranging and get things ready for it to go in. May be sooner, may be later. Looked at all the new 2-DIN head units out today. Not impressed. 

I've decided to do some corner bracing in the enclosure. Not sure which road I'm going down there just yet. 

I've been tinkering with the new sub & breaking it in a bit. It's sitting here next to me humming at 20 Hz - massaging the room. Ice cold after 2 hours. Zero mechanical noise. I think this little JL is backing itself down a bit as I keep watching the voltage drop at it heats up. I'm only using 2 bridged channels, but I have been playing a 20 Hz sine wave constantly - with some frequency variation. 










The little Victory Sonics power supply is still running cool & doing what it does well. This is the 2nd time I've gotten to spend time with it & gotta say I'm happy I got one. These things are worth their weight in gold. It's a lot more fun to play with this in the house when it's hot in the garage. 

Router guide & Rux knob should be here on Thursday. I have tomorrow & Friday to work on it before work gets crazy, so maybe I'll make some headway. I'd like to get this enclosure mostly finished by the end of the weekend, but we'll see.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I needed to cut a couple more pieces & decided to get some router work done while I was at it. I wound up going with a 1-1/4" roundover bit to make a nice parabola on the end piece and clean rounded edge on the others.




























As far as I could get today










I got the baffle cut too so when the jig gets here I can do a little trimming, recess the mounting hole, cut it then roundover the front. Hopefully will get it all glued up & sealed this weekend.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

It looks like it'll be a bit before I can listen to the new sub. So I might as well take a few more pictures of it. Like the SD, I hate it that all the pretty parts have to be hidden away





































My Rux-knob got here yesterday & I tossed it in real quick to get an idea of how I might like things to go. I'd read some reviews that complained that the knob only worked to a certain point and that's exactly what I found when I just plugged it in. Seems the max volume is where your gain is set - which is intuitive. I just gave the gain a twist & all of a sudden I have travel all the way through. 

I really like where the knob was today - just under the driver's seat sitting on the tranny tunnel. Gonna be hard to find space there, but you can remove the electronics from the case easily so it gets smaller. I found I used it quite a bit through the day and did quite a bit of driving - from Boulder to Colorado Springs in rush hour both ways plus a trip by the office...at least 5 hours through all sorts of musical genres. I learned 2 things. 1 - I can't believe I've not gotten one of these yet. 2 - I will always have one.

Now to figure out where to put it. I kinda wanna stick it in the pocket below the PRS80 - recessed so that only the knob is visible but even then will be a few inches inside the dash in the pocket. I have a couple other options in the dash and maybe one by the shifter. Inside the door pocket so that my passengers can't reach it?  The possibilities.....

Oh, rumor says the TM65s are being shipped out now. Gonna be quite a while before I can get mine in, but I sure am looking forward to hearing them!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

rob feature said:


> So far I'm digging the 600/6v2 with the exception of one detail. I once again have a noise floor. The XD 400/4 was dead silent, but this one, the NEWER version, has a slight hiss. I only notice it the motor is off and windows are up and I'm paying attention, but needless to say I'm pretty disappointed by this in the newer version.


That's odd. I had the opposite experience. We were a JL dealer for a long time, and got to do a few A/B comparisons on the V1 vs. V2 XD amps. I found the V2's to be a big improvement. 

Jay


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

That is bizarre. Interesting that you find them so different. Beyond the slight noise thing I haven't noticed any differences in the 2. I did get some noise from the 400/4 when I got it nice & warm with the SA the other day, but it was coming from the unit itself (not through the driver) - sort of a high pitched squeak. It goes away after a while, but as it's heating up until it's nice & warm it's making the noise. You have to be in a quiet environment to hear it. I'm not sure I'd ever hear it under the seat, but right next to me in the house it's there.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

By some stroke of luck I was able to successfully enter data for the SA10 into WinISD manually. This is what it thinks of the enclosure I'm about ready to assemble. Looks like she might have a big ass.










Tuned to 28 Hz according to WinISD. Not the 35 the calculators calculated. 1st world problems


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I gave myself a couple weeks of playing with Rux-knob locations & easily settled on the pocket below the radio. It's more accessible than any of the unused switch popouts & it's unused space. It's at a perfect reach just below the volume knob and is totally out of the way. Flush inside the pocket was too far away. I'm debating blacking the whole thing out, but we'll see.










A little CLD tile on both the big sides of the pocket while I'm in here. I thought this double-sided tape was clear when I put it on & only really noticed I'd be able to see the white through the screw holes after I'd reinstalled the dash. I'll fix it if it bugs me. It was going to be pretty tricky to get screws & bolts on this thing without them standing out so I decided to try some of the good tape Crestron gives us to mount their really expensive ****. So far so good & it's a tight fit anyway. I probably could get away with no tape it's so tight. But like this there's no movement no matter how I approach the knob. 










My remote lives in here too & there's still plenty of room for it










It blends in well enough from the driver's perspective & keeps with the idea of modifying the truck as little as possible. 










I've also been thinking a bit more about the enclosure and considered extending the vent on the enclosure a few inches - while reducing the interior volume to 1.3 cubic feet (from 1.4). Here's how it modeled.










I think I might just stick with it the way it is. 

I pulled a door apart to see how the TM65s might be looking. This is going to take some work. At very least I get to cut into the plastic in the door card a bit. A baffle is going to be some work too - probably some sort of work with the new router to replace the whole factory bit. Maybe I'll try & tackle it over the 4-day weekend coming up. I'll probably need it


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I also considered bracing the **** out of the box to make it smaller - as Sundown recommends. Trying both ends of the recommended sizes - 1.0 to 1.25 cubes. Yellow is still the one I'm ready to assemble. None of these are modeling any better, so I think I'm ready to assemble finally. After I make some corner braces to take me to ~1.4 cubes.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So I got in a bit of rush to judgement with this enclosure. My first clue that something wasn't quite right was the lower tuning frequency - which didn't jibe with the other calculators. Then I noticed this










Going back over all my inputs I realized that my port area conversion got botched and I wound up with an erroneous figure. That led me at first to believe that I was going to have an issue with port area, but when I got the dimensions fixed things started looking a little more realistic.

Closer than I'd like to be, but since I'm taking care to round everything in the vent area & flare at the top that I might squeak by. Even if not, any issues should only be present when ragging out the amp. 










SPL with these corrections










And another comparison with the smaller enclosures as well as the one with the longer vent [in pink]










All that said I still don't intend to change too much about the enclosure. Tuning frequency is just higher than I thought it would be. No drop off a cliff with this model though - which is a relief.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

This big roll of foam has been sitting here for a few days & I haven't really had too much time to spend with it until today. This is a care package from Foam by Mail containing 2 big sheets each of 1/16" and 1/8" neoprene plus a big wad of polyfil to round off the order for free shipping. 










The thin stuff has a really pleasant leathery texture to it. Furthermore I'm not convinced this isn't a little thicker than 1/16, but more on that later










You'll need to write off the edges of the thin stuff










The trick to getting this on evenly is preparation. That and applying the foam evenly with a back and forth motion - rolling slowly forward but not so slowly because Super 77 is impatient.  . Laying this out before I spray the MLV makes life much easier. 










I already had velcro installed on the MLV so needed to cover it before spraying on the adhesive. 










MLV door Panel with both sides treated with 1/16" high-density neoprene. It all feels super-solid, but barely fits. 1/8" would be impossible to use on both sides like this - not in these doors.










One door complete. 










A cross-section of the inner part of the door: CLD tiles, neoprene, MLV, neoprene, CLD tiles (in door card)










At this point I started to tackle another issue - the TM65 issue 

This is going to be a tight squeeze










And is going to require a little cutting




























I think these 2 cuts should do it though




























I'm pretty sure I can get away with new cutting-board baffles but getting that exactly right is going to take some time and it started getting really hot out. Back at it tomorrow morning to at least treat the other door and perhaps get started mounting these TM65s.

I'm making a cover for the bass knob too - gonna try to use some of the leathery side of the neoprene for the surface. It'll still be recessed in the pocket, but only the knob will be visible behind an inset panel. As soon as I run across the parts I can get that going.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I scored another cutting board this morning & set out to cut some baffles for the new woofers - using the stock speakers










Not the best news for the TM65s. I was hoping to mount them like I have the flutes mounted but the flange on the driver covers the holes I need to screw the baffle into the door.










I'm going to have to make custom pieces of wood now. That isn't going to happen for quite a while. Looks like I need some different drivers for now that I can slip in. I have a few in mind, but it ain't gonna be cheap. At the moment the Dayton Esoteric 5.5 is looking like the winner but who knows? I have been piddling with the idea a bit, but now it's time to make a decision.

I did finish deadening the driver's side this morning though

Laying out the MLV for adhesive










Making sure I have a bit of overlap room on each side










Just before spraying - all lined up so that I can roll the foam on quickly. 










This all comes together nicely after a couple tries & you start to develop a technique. I still managed to rip up a good bit of the sheet by sitting on it while doing one side so again leave some margin for error when calculating how much you will need. 

Oh, and for fellow Tacoma owners, this goes better if you leave a quarter inch or so around the opening for the door handle (assuming you trimmed your MLV to match the door handle opening). I found that cutting with a razor then scooping the foam out after gluing was the easiest way to do this. If you don't, you may have difficulty operating the door handle. 

I guess I need to be rethinking these speakers now and can turn my attention back to the enclosure...whenever that happens. I'm dying to hear it, but apparently that's not enough motivation right now


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So I made up some baffles for the TM65s & found a few hours to do some work



















Then tried to stick them in the stock panel & discovered it would need to be seriously altered to make these fit. I'm going to need to find a better solution. 

However I did somewhat anticipate this and picked up a pair of SEAS U16RCY/P 6 inch midwoofers 

Next to the TM65










Next to the 5.5" Silver Flutes.










In the door. They used the same holes as the Flutes & only required minor modification of the old baffles so quick install. Boing! 










That piece that offended the TM65s actually comes to the rescue with the SEAS as the coil is very exposed



















Everything set to flat before retune, sub turned all the way down. Same levels and crossover points.










I was using REW through my laptop to generate a signal. Seems like distortion is on the high side here?




























These drivers are quite a bit different from the Flutes. I guess a good word would be detailed. Revealing. Supple. They're so nice and have me listening to a lot of stuff again that never really sounded that great with the Flutes - like live music. I can certainly tell the difference in a poor recording more easily. I think I've said this before but I wish I'd done this sooner. 

I have 2, well, 3 more projects ahead. I need to finish the enclosure for the SA. I need to get the Helix DSP in which will require moving all the amps around & rewiring. And at some point, and this is now not a big deal, I'd like to try the TM65s. I think the DSP might have to take priority. Although these SEAS sound pretty nice with no EQ & really nice with just a few tweaks. Decisions.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Not so many pictures to share today, but I have had a little time to work on the truck. Last Saturday I re-arranged things under the passenger seat to accommodate the Helix DSP. It's tight, but I think it will work. I still need to work out cabling though as there's little room to spare, so while a space has been carved out, it's still not in the truck. Believe it or not, that took most of my work time . Err, I also ran a new OFC power wire, all in Techflex, but forgot to take pictures of all that. In time...

Yesterday I played with the sub box a bit. I needed to trim a few panels & needed to get familiar with the flush trim bit first. That turned out to be a simple exercise, but with the way I'm having to clamp stuff it's tedious and time-consuming. Also, you've probably heard it before, but do respect the router. All power tools really, but the router is the most temperamental power tool I've encountered yet. It's extremely versatile, but will get a hold of yer damn neck if you aren't 100% into what you're doing.

Not the most ideal work station, but works. Getting ready to cut the inset for the driver










After vacuuming 10 pounds of sawdust out of the hole










On the big side it seems, but in my defense this circle jig is kinda cheesy.










I like the look though. I don't think I'm gonna round these corners after all as that will make it a real ***** when it comes to carpet. 










It's raining today & I don't like to mess with MDF when it's humid so I'll be stalled again until it dries out a bit. Not much left to do now though...a bit of sanding then to assemble the box, mount the driver and apply carpet. 

I've been playing with the new WinISD & modeled a few items for giggles. This is the vented enclosure I'm building for the SA (Green), SD as it is now (red), and SA in a sealed enclosure identical to the SD (blue). The vented enclosure has a high pass at 25 Hz to get vent speed under control. Some might struggle to consider the SA a SQ sub, but consider that it's going to give me almost an octave on the low end and appears that it will do so with a bit of authority. That's part of SQ to me. If the frequencies are missing, then SQ is being compromised. Plus the bottom octave is the best octave 

Max SPL:










Oh, and the box design got modified a bit. Internal volume is a bit smaller, vent length is 32 inches - now tuned to about 29 Hz.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Work got slow again last week & it gave me a chance to work on the SA enclosure. And I'm almost done. Just need to trim the carpet a little more and get it mounted. It will use the same grill that the SD is using now - maybe will even get a re-cover. This thing really was a lot of work.










I've never built a slot port enclosure before and it wasn't as easy as I expected it to be. Actually most of my issues were due to my limited woodworking tools (and maybe skills ) but little things like t-nuts just kept stalling me. 

Actually I've decided to hang up the t-nuts. I'm going to try threaded inserts next time. I'd be done right now, but one of the nuts fell out as I was installing the driver. I even made the effort to seat them well ahead of driver install and still managed to lose one. This happened on the test fit too.

I also picked up a Helix Pro DSP board and am still in the process of getting it into some sort of case. 










I've had a tough time finding one but fortunately member d-squared offered to carve me one out of an aluminum billet! 










I'm really excited to see where he goes with this. 

Might try to stick this thing in the truck tomorrow to see how it sounds! Still need to find a mounting location for the DSP too. I just can't get all the amps and power management and DSP under there. Might just squeeze it if I relocate the power distribution?


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Time for a work day - doing something I wanna do for a change. Maybe 2. Now that I got all my belts & water pump & whatnot out of the way I can spend a little time on this. Err, I needed to think it through as well. I built this enclosure for the SA a while back, but I couldn't figure out how I was going to secure it. With the driver it's exactly very ****ing heavy and needs to be really secure. I'm also on the fence about where I want this thing exactly and this will allow me the flexibility to move it to the other side if I can't lean the driver's seat back far enough. Not ideal. I designed this to be behind the driver but could go to the other side if need be.

Another thing that held me up is the t-nuts. Evil, evil t-nuts. I've never had an issue before just hammering them into MDF, but this time it didn't quite work as planned. A smarter me might have glued them before attempting to use them, but live and learn, eh? Maybe you can see what's coming next. So one of them spun out. Actually 2 spun, but I was able to recover one miraculously. The other one though - I wasn't so lucky. Not only had I rounded the area the t-nut needed to grab, but managed to mangle one or 2 of the barbs. And the screw crossthreaded on the way out. It was a perfect storm. The only way into the enclosure was blocked by that damn screw. 

I just let the thing sit there for months while I thought of possible solutions that didn't involve destroying the new enclosure I hadn't even heard yet. I wound up trying 2 different things. The first was extensions on a drill with a tiny bit to work the bolt free. It was really tedious work and the bit kept getting stuck so I turned to plan B. B for Big ass screwdriver. Really just long, but using a screwdriver as a chisel, very carefully whittled away enough MDF to get it out. This is not something I want to do again, but it worked. I got my sub back and I can still use the box. I'm gonna have to rotate the driver in a funky direction, but this time I'm using wood screws. 

The scene of the crime 





















The other reason I needed in there










Good thing this is a robust sub. Not sure every sub I've ever used would have survived that. The SA cleaned up like new though along with a serious vacuum and air gun session to clear any debris or shavings from the gap.

That bolt was really stuck...left me some shavings as I got it out.




















Got everything all torn out of the back. I don't really like hauling people around anyway so this gives me an even better excuse.

CLD tiles somewhat sloppily installed on the wall. The constraining layer is so thick it makes straight lines nearly impossible. When I do this again I'll use a more malleable damper on the ribbed sections.










The idea here is pretty simple - a 3/4" carpeted birch plywood backer for the wall to replace the plastic bits and seats that were there...anchored to at least 5 factory bolt locations.










With the enclosure anchored to it using angle brackets










This still leaves me access to my large storage bin as well as the storage next to the enclosure. Actually this arrangement is going to work out giving me about the same storage as I had before as I never put anything on the side with the sub. The small bin will be filled with foam. I need to get some damper in there as well - spaced on that before. 

Planning to leave a little space on the sides for bracket access. At this point I'll try to do something with carpet back here, but may go to a vinyl if it looks like ****. If I can figure out how to decouple it, I'll put the Helix DSP back here too.










Both the rear seatbelts are coming out as well.

So the seat reclining position isn't going to be a problem










Even if it were, tough titty - almost though










I had to remove or at least loosen the side covers to remove the rear seatbelts.










Those little seatbelt assemblies are rattletraps. I think I'm gonna be glad I took those out










I could tell I have some more deadening to do in these quarters. The rear speaker adapters especially are making a lot of noise. I may remove them completely & fill that big void with something. Dunno what but something.

I generally don't care for Home Depot's wood products, but I had to return some stuff today & made a stop by the lumber section to see what was on the shelf. As this isn't an enclosure and only going on the back wall, I figured a good, straight piece of birch from there would do fine. Paying extra attention to how straight these were, I neglected to pay attention to one of the side surfaces










Yep, that's wood filler. 

It's sort of my fault as I did pick it out, but dammit. That line going through it - that's right where I need to put bolts .

It might just have to go back though. The edges were full of splinters so I decided to pull out the mouse and sand them clean.

Well that just started tearing it apart 




















Moral of the story - don't buy Home Depot's ****ty 'lumber'. Even their best 'birch' sucks. And it wasn't cheap. I gotta pick up some wood filler for that booboo on my enclosure tomorrow anyway, so Ima see if they'll take it back marked up & sanded. I'll even return the pieces that fell off . My fault for buying that ****, but this is going to set me back a day at least as I really don't wanna use this sheet. I'm trying to put something nice back there. Oh well - I've waited this long - what's one more day?


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Sometimes there are happy accidents. 

Work suddenly got busy again out of the blue, so I have to shelve this project for at least the next few days. I had another work day planned yesterday but came down with some sort of nasty stomach bug & spent the day in bed. That meant that I had to get up at 4 am, shovel off 3 inches of snow, and get my truck driveable. Of course that includes getting a sub back in so I don't have to drive without one 'till I can get at all this again. I had plenty of time to rack my brain on how I would do this, but wasn't feeling better 'till this morning. 

About the only thing I could come up with that could be done quickly was to toss it in the floorboard and move the seat up so it locks into place. So that's what I did - and discovered what a front sub sounds like in my truck










I've heard front subs before, but it never never gave me a wow moment. In the truck I know well though - it was a wow moment. It was a wow day. This is what I've been missing in the low end. I don't really think I can properly put into words what it did for the sound, but everything suddenly seems perfect. Just really good. I suspected that putting a sub up front would improve things, but not to this extent. Short of leaving this in the passenger floor, there's no way to do that in this truck without extensive modification. So this will be a short-term thing. It's obviously far from practical anyway, but man I wish there were a way to make it work. At least I can enjoy it for another week.

But now I know. :deal2:


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

_dsquared_ y'all. The man's an artist. 










I gotta say I'm pretty stoked about this piece. It's just gorgeous. I thought about totally hiding it, but don't think I wanna do that anymore. It's too pretty. I'm rethinking the install to try & integrate this in a way that I can show it off. It's probably gonna go on the back wall now behind a removable panel...probably somewhere above the sub enclosure. I'm building a grille to cover the port and will probably make it go all the way across the enclosure. Hopefully I can come up with a clever way to work it in there & keep it isolated from the sub enclosure. There are other options, but that's where the bus is headed at the moment. Time will tell.

Looks like more work on the horizon this weekend if the weather holds. With any luck I'll finally be able to listen to this SA. Not the first time that's been said though


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

This new DSP's gonna need a controller. I'd been sort of halfway thinking about buying one of Helix's controllers, but since it seems to be easy enough to make your own, I'm entertaining ideas. Turns out it's really cheap to build one and this could be a really fun project.

I remembered I had this other Metra pocket in the closet. This is just like the one under the 80 PRS right now. Plenty of room in there for stuff.

Tracing out the outline on some MLV










Pencils mark really well on this stuff & it's easy to cut for a mockup

This was the first idea - just using some knobs I pulled off an old receiver and a terminal where a push switch might be with a placeholder to see how I might wanna mount some USB inputs for the head unit










Kinda how it would sit on the pocket










I got kinda inspired to do this as I was shopping for parts. I started to think where I was gonna even put this thing then remembered the pocket and the sub amp control that will be replaced. Then PE threw some more inspiration at me. This can be as creative or bland as I want it to be. Blingy is out, but maybe I can play on the music theme a little.

Like imitating a guitar face 










Or something different with the switch










This leaves even moar room for moar gadgets. Maybe even a phono jack 










I'm thinking this won't be the easiest thing in the world to pull off, but I'm really liking the idea


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Keeping the USB and adding a phono input










ditching the USB










ditching the USB and LED for a more authentic look


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

If I could burrow the LEDs behind the knobs so they're only visible when lit it might look something like deez










Still trying to convince myself that jack is a good idea. It is kinda fun though


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

It never fails. I start to build some momentum and either work or weather get in the way.

I finally got around to trimming, sanding, carpeting and drilling the plywood for the back wall. No pictures of that as it was sort of tedious, but 5 test fits later I got it where it needs to be. I'm still working on enclosure details, but wanted to see what sort of difference the backer made in regards to noise suppression. Turns out that 3/4" plywood carpeted on both sides works pretty well.










Yes, those are earplugs shoved in the bracket holes. I need bolts 

It's a nice improvement over what's back there from the factory (seats & cushions) - really quiet. I really wanted to see if I wanted to go further with the deadening back there before finalizing the carpet & installing the enclosure. I think this is going to be adequate. Now all the noise is up front - from the wheel wells.

This is the base for the 'modular' thing I wanted to do all along. This is going to give me a way to swap enclosures pretty easily. Some equipment will probably wind up back here too.

ps, one reason I keep using this carpet, in addition to its availability, is that it really loves velcro. It does a decent job of hiding old screw holes too if you don't wind too much of it around a drill bit. It doesn't match factory, but my factory carpet is at least 15 years old so the odds in new carpet matching are pretty slim anyway. I just want it to not stand out and this does the job well enough. When all the grilles, etc are in place I'm hoping you'd have to be looking pretty hard to see it from the outside.


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

Typical noob mistake. You need to use the orange ear plugs. They have 32 db of attenuation. The pink ones only have 21. Smh...

Looks good!

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks Weightless

Yeah, but the purple is that new hotness. Safety orange is so 2017. Plus the extra loudness gives me that extra vroom vroom feel - kinda like stickin' cardboard in the spokes


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Back to it a little bit today. We've hit our busy season at work so I need to get this done. I've been installing (at work) something on the order of 12 hours every day so motivation to do more of it when I get home is tough. I hit a part snag again, but got as far as I could without going back to the store. Still need proper replacements for those earplugs and I can't get the bolts out of my factory seatbelts - they use some sort of funky little clip that won't come out unless I destroy it (which I will do if I can't find something quickly tomorrow morning). 

Another test fit to see if the brackets I found at HD are going to work










Getting this thing back in with the brackets in place without destroying my interior or sending myself to the hospital or both is going to be tricky. I'll probably wind up installing the driver once the box is in the truck to make weight manageable. 

It took me a while, but I managed to find 3/4" construction screws for to hold the brackets to the enclosure. I'd really prefer to use something larger, but this appears to be the only way this will work without sending studs through the rear of the enclosure and I figured lining that up would be a major PITA. With enough of these though I have faith. Since this is MDF I chose to pre-drill all my holes (which should probably be done in any type of wood). 

Taping the bit with several layers of electrical tape makes sure I don't go too far. I don't want these going through the other side.










I love this Ridgid drill. I dropped it 10 feet off a ladder the other day and it just brushed it off. And that wasn't its first tumble. These things are workhorses and for the coin simply can't be beat. 

Side brackets attached. Jury's out on top brackets, but I'll add them if I think they're needed. 










Got the SA wired up and ready to install. It bounced back and forth between 1.7 and 1.8 ohms before settling at 1.7. The SD it's replacing gave me 1.8, so this should be a pretty even swap. I'll be able to use all the power the MRX has to offer however. It was a little too much for the SD. I'm going to try a stronger sub amp - around a kilowatt for the SA at some point when I find one. 










I'm thinking the first choice would be another MRX - just a 110 i/o the 55, but may end up going down some other road. Choices are limited by space as I intend to keep both amps under the seats for now. That and the MRX has been such a great amp. And it runs super cool. Finding a 110 in good shape for a reasonable price hasn't been easy though.

I've said this before, but I think I might actually get to hear this thing tomorrow. Still thinking about a DSP location but that will have to wait until we slow down again - likely in the Fall. But who knows - maybe I'll find a way. I just hate to rush any of this. At least at that I am winning . Still need to get the TM65s in the doors too. I worked on that a little bit the other day but discovered the cutting boards I bought were just too much for my jigsaw so I'm back to the drawing board for that one. One of these days.....


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I snagged a bunch of foam from a room build the other day. 2 big bags worth. I think I'm going to use every bit of it in here. I'm mostly using the packaging foam from large 2'x2' Shure ceiling microphones. It's closed and doesn't squeak when you rub it against other stuff - or the same stuff. It's really rigid too - using it for filler. It also cuts easily & predictably with a drywall saw.

Filled up the small bin behind the driver's seat










In the rear quarter. Gobs of room back here - again all stuffed with the same packaging foam. I used a couple sheets of open cell stuff behind the factory speaker spots in the rear as it doesn't get wet in there. And it came with open cell stuff from the factory which I just pulled out. No mold - doesn't look like it's ever seen water.










Finally got the sub in!










I need to tune it up, but drove around for an hour or so for initial impressions. I left the gain where it was with the SD in. The SA is much louder than the SD setup at the same gain level. I immediately noticed that it does indeed play much lower effortlessly - as WinISD suggested it would. 

Of course I mostly hit the bass heavy music for this. Just to sort of see what she can do. I don't think I've seen it all yet, but output is shocking. It's way louder than I expected. It will flex panels and glass with under 600 watts - at least that's what it looks like is going on from the inside. It knocked my rear view mirror out of adjustment. And it plays loooooooooooooooooooow! loudly  . I'm starting to think I don't need any more power. This thing is borderline violent.

I can tell it will take some work though. I'd gotten used to having the SD up front and this is certainly a downgrade from that as far as accuracy goes. Might try flipping phase and playing with TA a bit. It really needs some EQ too. This is more bass than I'll ever need. It will be fun sometimes, but I found it distracting driving with it that loud. 

Some cosmetic work is going to happen at some point, but it's really nice out this weekend so I think I'll give my fingers a break for a couple days and go play outside. Looking forward to the next drive though. Might stick a mic in there tomorrow to see where I am & give it a quick tune.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

This little nugget showed up the other day. Well worth the wait!

The only one like it in the whole world!










My camera batteries are shot, so a proper photo session will have to wait until I can find the power supply, but this is the house for my Helix DSP Pro board. Darren did a stunning job machining this case. It follows the Helix design most of the way, but the bottom is a different layout. Totally stoked to get my hands on this. The finish is gorgeous - matte anodized aluminum & close to the truck paint! Now to figure out where it's gonna live. Still need to make a remote for it too, but we're working 60 hours/week now and traveling a lot so I'm not holding my breath. 

I still haven't had time to retune beyond playing with a few things while sitting still for various reasons. But on the whole I like the new sub setup. I still have it crossed at 100 Hz and have found no good reason to lower it. Imaging of lower frequencies is better than the SD ever was in the back. The front-loaded SD was better of course, but still suffered in the extension department. The SA took care of that. 

I haven't detected any chuffing, so looks like I got the vent big enough. Not sure exactly how low it's playing, but I have the subsonic filter on the MRX set at 25 Hz. I'm still getting some subsonic information in some tracks which in some cases is really cool and in some is a little strange. I should be able to tame that with the Helix. Still no desire to increase power. Even when I'm in the mood for bass heavy music, the SA delivers enough to hurt my ears and re-arrange my rear view mirror. It's more than I can handle for more than a few seconds. I gave a bass demo to a guy I know the other day and he promptly got out with his fingers in his ears :laugh:. 

It's largely a musical setup as well, but lingers a bit too long on some tracks. Very few tracks, but sometimes it's there. 99% of the time lowering the gain via the bass knob brings it home. Reversing phase also helped - just tried that. All things in car audio are a compromise and this particular layout sacrifices a rare bit of a rebound issue for a vast improvement in SPL and extension. I always had to hold back with the SD and that was always in the back of my mind. Sometimes I just really wanna rock out and hated having to watch the levels knowing one turn too far and I'm introducing hard parts. I can't possibly kill this SA with the power I'm providing it so that concern is gone. That's another gain in terms of the compromise. And again I haven't had time to give much effort to tuning. 

It's been a lot of fun so far and I'm glad I did it. Hate it that it takes up so much space, but it's either that or power. And I have, AFAIK, an 85A alternator. I'm pretty sure I've come as close as possible to maximizing output and extension with the power and space I have to work with. Tuning will make it better. Looking forward to getting that done.


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