# Golf mk3 sq - Mosconi. Focal Utopia, Digital Designs ++



## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Earlier in summer I bought a cheap daily driver for $900, a pretty decent Golf mk3 in good condition. A few weeks after I bought it I found out that I wanted to compete with a simple system in it, in the Master OEM category in EMMA sq events. 

The car already had a system in it when I bought it, so most of the audio cables I needed were already there (low grade ones, but still). So in 3 days I put together a small system in a hurry from things I had laying around anyway. This included a Pioneer DEH-P88RS head unit, an old PPI PC6600 amp, some Focal TN51 tweeters from the 180W component set (I had to buy the whole set secondhand to get hold of the 7w2 midbasses that I wanted for my other car), a DD 2508 sub and some $8 Peerless India 6" mids picked up at a blowout sale at partsexpress. Only used these and the DD sub because the speakers I had ordered did not show up in time for the first event, so I just used what I had  Just to be able to go to the event. 

It went pretty well, I was just 1 point away on the sound score from the winner in my class, but I was missing a whole lot on install since all was just rushed in the car to get it ready for the event. 

So in the two weeks until the next event I started a rebuild that will be featured in this thread. Might as well start with the system diagram:










Build pics wil come shortly!


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## speakerpimp (Feb 15, 2012)

Sweet!! Wish I could keep myself on a deadline for my own car...

Can't wait to see this one.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Usually my projects always turn into years and years of unfinished systems that changes multiple times midway, so for this car I wanted to make something straightforward in a short amount of time. It IS more fun to have actual sound in the car than just a vision of how you want it to become sometime in the future 

So I got home from the first event with good feedback from the judges, both install and sound judges, on what to improve. At the same time I decided that since this was my daily driver, and I had lost the spark somehow on my long term project car, I decided to borrow some components from that car for the next event (2 weeks inbetween them).

So I swapped the P88RS head unit for my P99RS, I swapped the PPI amp for my Mosconi A-class and AS200.4, and I ordered a brand new pair of Focal Utopia 6w2be mids. I also wanted to buy a pair of Utopia 13WS subs, but they were on backorder at the distributor and would not get here in time for the next event, that also was the last before the finals. And since I needed to attend at least 2 event in order to qualify for the finals, I decided to stick with the sub I had. After all, the crossover section was very limited on the old PPI amp. Even though it is a 6-channel, it only has 4 inputs and it sums them internally, and cross them over at a fixed 90hz to the subwoofer. If that was not bad enough, the signals from front speakers are time-aligned, so it actually sums signals that are out of phase to each other.. this is the opposite of ideal!

So getting rid of that amp and installing the Mosconis, with total control over crossover settings and time alignment on all channels helped a lot.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Some pics!

Starting with the subwoofer enclosure, I wanted to use the space in the left side trunk corner. 










Made a cardboard template of the floor and transferred it to a mdf piece. Came out like this:









Also made the rear wall from mdf. It takes up some space, but saves a LOT of time and money. Fiberglass, resin and hardener is not cheap around here.









Laid some aluminium foil around the wheel well. Was going to secure it with duct tape, but I could not find any. But I have about 60 rolls of 24" wide adhesive vinyl in all sorts of colours, so I got out a roll of seldom used vinyl and used that to secure the foil.









Some layers of fiberglass laid to get a rough shape to work further on:









When it hardened it could be taken out of the car for further work:









View from end:


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

As you can see the floorboard is now made of aluminium, more on this later 

Box all sealed up and edges trimmed:









Moving on a bit, all fiberglass sides reinforced with resin/body filler sludge, about 1cm thick. You can also see the trimmed down brace, hehe.. I never get it right on the first try with the Jasper Jig. Converting from mm to inches, and adding or subtracting the difference of the current router bit and the one the markings on the jig is based on in it's the inside or outside diameter etc.. I never get it just right, as you can see on the tiny recess of the hole









Then I added some Silent Coat deadening to the inside and outside of the fiberglass walls to reduce possible "tinging" from the walls.









I made a trim ring so the subwoofer will be recessed, the plan is to smooth out the trim ring towards the edges of the box.









I also rounded the trim ring and box edges with a roundover bit in my router. Trim ring is glued with wood glue to the box itself.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Not a perfect match on the carpet against the oem one, but pretty close. Camera makes the difference larger than in real life.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

You will enjoy these amps  

Great build on the box so far.. keep it going,,, subed!


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## Mike1082 (Apr 8, 2011)

I know what you mean about the jasper jig... I just learned that myself! Really fun tool to play with though. Great job on the enclosure!


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

quickaudi07 said:


> You will enjoy these amps
> 
> Great build on the box so far.. keep it going,,, subed!


Amp setup is already upgraded from this  Will explain in the thread.



Mike1082 said:


> I know what you mean about the jasper jig... I just learned that myself! Really fun tool to play with though. Great job on the enclosure!


Yes, kind of hit and miss  I write down the correct settings in a chart after I find them, so the next time I need to make a hole I know where to set the jig 

Since I wanted to add as little weight as possible, and the components weight what they weigh regardless, using lighter materials in the build was something I wanted to do. And since I live pretty close to a boat yard (where also a friend of mine works), I got hold of some pretty sweet aluminium honeycomb sheets, 10mm thick in total. They are about as rigid as 22mm mdf, but at 1/6 of the weight. 










So I built both the bottom and the top plate of the new false floor with this material. One side is bare aluminium, the other has various prints depending on where in the boats they go. All are used for walls, but some have wood print, some have speckled/fleckstone print etc. I covered them in carpet so that would not matter anyway. 

To secure the amps I used M3 bolts with locking nuts through the 10mm honeycomb sheet:

























The wiring is (somehow) organized, and I tried as best to route power and signal cables away from each other. 









I made a top plate with cutouts so the amps sit flush against the plate:









Cutouts were hand cut with a jigsaw freehand btw, hehe.. Thank you Bosch for making the excellent gst 135 ce professional jigsaw 

I got a very good deal on the Mosconi AS200.4 when I bought it new in April, so when money was a bit tight some weeks back I put it for sale for the price I paid for it. And after 1 hour it was sold! So I had to take out the amps, and do some thinking. Sell the A-class also and get some cash in pocket? And buy a smaller multichannel amp like the Mosconi GLADEN ONE 60.6?

Well, downgrading is much less fun than upgrading, so instead of doing that, I ordered a brand new Mosconi Zero 4 today!  The brand new 4-channel in the Zero range. Already got a tracking # on the shipment, it should be here Wednesday  Got a great deal on this also, but since I sold my other car last week to the Mosconi distributor, that's not so strange I guess, hehe


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

dude i love it !! hows the dd in sealed box? i have always heard run them ported and i have 1025 laying around.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

The DD is absolutely NOT recommended for sealed boxes, if you should believe what you read all over the net. The box was made for a Gladen Audio SQX08 (where a 10L sealed box is optimal), that did not show up, so I just plopped my 2508 in the box. It was either that or a Pyle 8" from 1995 that I had laying around 

But after some weeks of playing the sub is really impressive! It goes real deep, and much more linear than any DD I have heard (all in ported boxes). I had it in a 30L ported box in my other car on the same amp (2 bridged channels on the AS200.4 - 600ish W rms), and while it was louder there, it had a pretty peaky response compared to the small sealed box. Now I want to try it in a bigger sealed box to see how it works there. But really impressed already


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

I bought a Mosconi A-Class secondhand from another country this winter, and it sadly had some scruff marks on the anodized finish. This has bothered me some, and I have got a quote on a new chassis from the distributor. This was priced very nicely, but it has some delivery time since they make the heatsinks in batches, and the ones already made is destined for actual production of new amps. But since a new one is ordered, I can do whatever with the old one in the meantime. 

So I took the amp apart yesterday so that I can either polish or paint the chassis. The A-class does also not have the same finish as the Zero range amps, so it won't match the Zero 4 anyway while stock. So opinions on what to do is wanted 

I took some nice ampguts pics since I had the amp apart anyway


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## Noobdelux (Oct 20, 2011)

i hope you will be in another price class than me : P

but that looks rock solid!


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

I would be scared to take my amps apart !

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

No worries when you have the Mosconi distributor on speakerphone while you take it apart


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Must be nice 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## and_elli (Aug 7, 2012)

Looking good fellow Nowegian looking forward to see how the DD is working out for you since i'm courious about DD in sealed box myself


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

New toy! Always fun 










The finish was much closer to the a-class than I was told, at a first glance at least:









But when compared directly, the finish is different on them:


















So putting them next to each other you can clearly see the difference. Too bad, since the width combined is perfect for the Golf, they just go between the wheels wells with 1 cm to spare.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Amps are now installed and playing sweet music  Have to play around with the gain settings on the new amp, or maybe just start over with tuning, but sounds promising already


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Pure sex buddy! I love Mosconi amps they are simply amezing !

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Space was just wide enough to fit both amps, wiring is a right mess at the moment  All the speaker cables are to long since they were just right for the other placement configuration for the old setup. So I will cut them to length, and make a new false floor that sits a couple of cm over the amps, hiding them completely. This is so I can use the boot fully until I take my time to make it pretty, sometime this winter. Also, a flat floor means that I can experiment with different subs in different boxes and placements until I am happy, and then make it look good. Not the usual build first and hope it works afterwards 










Anyway, the outside of the car needs more urgent attention than the inside:









Got rust? 

When I'm done I will be vinyl wrapping the car. Thinking of going for one of the matte metallic finishes seen here, not sure on which one though.. Maybe the lightest blue one, or one of the grey ones:









Colour would look something like this when wrapped (if going for a grey one)


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## torontooddysey (Feb 5, 2011)

that's a good looking wrap.. and nice job on the box as well


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

I went ahead and got myself a tablesaw earlier this week:









And since the sub I use in my small sealed fiberglass box is really intended to be used in a much larger ported box I went ahead and cut the pieces for one.

Small(ish) box, low tuning and decent port area = very long port! Almost 1 meter in length. Used a cardboard roll that vinyl for graphics come delivered on as a port flare and to round off the corners in the port. I have lots of these rolls! 3" diameter, also handy for bass reflex ports in their own.



















Box is about 28 liters net, decent starting point for a DD 8". Also have a 40L sealed box tucked away in the garage. I'll try them all and see what is most promising.


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## vwtoby (Oct 28, 2005)

where did you install the mids? doors or kicks? Mk3 doors take so much work to seal up...


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Mids are in the doors, mounted in the stock position for now (on the plastic door panel) I have to use this location for the class I'm competing in, called Master OEM in the EMMA organization. This means that the car has to look 100% stock inside, all speakers must be behind stock grilles etc. Only think allowed to change in the cabin is the head unit. Trunk is free to do what you want. 

Over the winter I will relocate the mids to spacers bolted directly to the sheetmetal instead of the plastic door card where they are mounted now. The midbass is maybe the weakest point in the installation, you are right about the mk3 doors. They need a lot of effort to be optimal. Luckily (I think) the 2012 finals, both national and european, have been pushed to spring 2013. So the season actually begins with the finals for last (this) year. This means that the finals will be very interesting, since most have used the winter to rebuild and improve their setup. 

I'm thinking about swapping the old Utopia tweeters for some fullrange drivers, since I had a lot of success with that in my other VW.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Some oldschool goodness has found its way into the Golf 










My favourite sub from the 90s (and pretty much up there regardsless of age).


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## Woosey (Feb 2, 2011)

haakono said:


> Some oldschool goodness has found its way into the Golf
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Long time since update I see  Let me cut and paste from another forum that have been updated more frequently, but first off all the exterior has been reworked from this:









to this


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

I went down to the machining workshop where a buddy works, with a drawing of an adapter to fit the 93mm diameter Tangband fullrange drivers in a 97mm hole. Needed the adapter to have a 75mm cutout for the driver, 100mm diameter in total with a 3,5mm countersink of 93mm diameter to flushmount the driver.

He decided that POM plastic was a suitable material to use, so we loaded a 100mm bolt in the bandsaw to make a suitable workpiece:


Into the lathe with it, drilled a hole right through to start it off:


After a bit of machining, this was the result, correct outer and inner diameter, with countersunk mounting for the driver:


Cut it down to 8mm in height, and testfitted it in the car. Fit just right


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

New subs!


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

I started on the sound deadening and speaker baffles for the doors. I took the advice from the silent coat dealer to make an effective solution to both rigidity and road noise reduction. So in the doors there is a sandwich of 2mm Silent Coat, then Silent Coat Noise Isolator 4mm, then another layer of 2mm Silent Coat.

A pic from the middle of the deadening process, noise isolator over silent coat:


Boot received 1 layer of Silent Coat and 1 layer of Noise Isolator 4mm.




Plastic panel on inside of boot received some Silent Coat Sound Absorber 7 to stop potential rattles. Very snug and tight fit when installing it afterwards, could feel it compressing the deadening when the screws were tightened. Nice 


After a bit of cutting in the door panel and plastic map pocket/stock speaker placement, I had enough space to insert the spacer for the speaker.

Stock grille fits in stock place as per rules in Master OEM:

Removing the plastic map pocket it looks like this just now:


Marked where the cutout will be on the cardboard template I made, to be transferred to a mdf sheet. Will make the baffle out of this. This again will be mounted with either self tapping screws to the inner door skin, or bolts and nuts. Latter one preferable I guess?


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

With the speaker adapters (extremely) securely bonded to the dashboard permanently, I did realize that maybe drilling holes for the screws BEFORE bonding it to the car would be a great solution! Sadly not the one I chose.. Pretty tight when the windshield is in the way of the drill  But after buying a 90 degree adapter for my drill it became much easier 

Also, POM is a fantastic material to cut and drill in! So with the driver laid in the adapter it was pretty easy to predrill holes for the screws.


Took some silent coat and formed it into a gasket around the mounting ring:


One thing I always do (wrong), is to have the finishing material (carpet, suede etc) twist itself when predrilling holes in the MDF underneath. So this time I glued suede on the top of the box, cut out the excess over the speaker holes and placed the driver in the hole. Then I marked up where the holes would be drilled with a marker on the suede. And removed the material around it with a hole-punch. Great success! 


Took the box with me home from the workshop, as I could not wait until tomorrow to see how it would look with all the drivers in place, hehe.. Had just brung one to the workshop..

Some pics:






Box is 19L internally and sealed.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)




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## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

Uf, that's a leap forward for sure! That amp rack is begging for the same blue suede outline.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Since the plan to have the false floor/top panel cnc-cut before the finals fell through because of little time (the cnc guy did not have time until next week), I made it a little simpler in order to make it myself with my own tools.

So no suede edge around the opening for the amp, but pretty much like the original plan otherwise.



Loooove my Festool track saw, never been easier to cut out a hole in the middle of a sheet. Just mark up the cutout, place the track on the line, and saw away  Wanted rounded corners, so I stopped a bit short, and cut the radius with a jigsaw. Easy pAeasy 


Covered the panel in textured black vinyl:


and with the stock grilles in place over the subs:


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## mrmill (Feb 11, 2013)

wow hell of a progression on your car/install...call me a noob but what sony amp is that??


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

I went to the emma (european mobile media association) norwegian finals last weekend, and here is an update from that trip:

I set off on Wednesday afternoon, a bit later than planned because of some extra work that had to be done. I live on the west coast, and the event was held pretty close to the Swedish border, so at the far east of the country. This means a 8 hour drive, crossing a mountain pass that rises to 1200m above sea level. Now it has been nice warm weather for close to months where I live, down by the sea. So I was more or less unprepared for this kind of weather when approaching June on the calendar!






Had not exactly packed my winter jacket or snow chains for the trip, hehe! But only a short while with this weather luckily.
Arrived at Joakim Skovlunds house at 2am, caught some hours sleep for a day of installing the next day. Got outside to see an old friend in the daylight 


Went down to the workshop to start installing the new amp and going over the rest of the system, improving on bits and bobs that might not be up to finals standards. Took a look at Joakims "computer", probably the best sounding one in the world? Anyone recognize the "sound cards" ;p


Got started on making a mounting board for the Focal amp hidden in the wheel well. Used some 19mm mdf for the board. Drilled a hole in the sheetmetal and riveted down a rivet. Don't know exactly what that kind is called, but it has threads for a M6 bolt (or threaded rod used here).


Amp screwed down with its original mounting screws, wired up with wires kinda properly laid and fastened 


Not much more pictures of what were done, but all wiring was looked over and improved on, fastening front fuse holder better, terminating and shrinkwrapping all ends properly etc. Took its time, and during the day a lot of customers came to the workshop, slowing things down a bit. So instead of being ready at 6pm-ish as planned, the system was only up and running at about 10pm. And still sound tuning left. This was done by Joakim alone, and after some hours of adjusting the result was truly spectacular compared to what I ever have achieved in this car.. or any car! Had already decided earlier on the day that it was best to just take the time needed, instead of rushing it so I could drive to the hotel near the event that same evening. It was better to have the prepaid room just stand empty, and "powernapping" for a while after we finished properly. Then drive during the night to get there when the ports opened in the morning. About 3,5 hours drive up. So got to the house at 2am, went to bed at 2.15, got up at 3,45 and got in the car at 4am. Open roads and the sun rising,


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Oh, seems like I never updated this thread on how it went on the national emma SQ finals! 

Actually got the highest sound score regardless of class at the whole event, I was very pleased (and amazed) by that, since this install is in the OEM class meaning that all speakers have to be behind stock grilles, no visual modification to the interior of the cabin is allowed, only in the trunk area. Only visible mod inside that is allowed is changing of the head unit from stock, but in the stock location only. 

I got the highest sound score, but in the end I had one more install point missing compared to the advantage in sound score to my competitor, so I got 2nd place by just one point, 369 to 370. 










Sound and install score was 264/105 for me, 255/115 for the competitor in this class. 

Pleased with that, and next weekend is my first event of the season. The 10 install points missing have been sorted out (according to the rule book at least, but every judge has their own interpretation on the rules and how they judge), and the subs play deeper and more authorative after having been used for a few months, compared to 3-4 days of use at the finals. 

So all in all, better now than at the finals. Meeting new people and getting new impulses at events are more fun than the competition part though, at least I feel like that.


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## vwtoby (Oct 28, 2005)

love the build! do you have any more pictures of the front doors? ones showing the design behind the door card


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

I have some, but not great ones I'm afraid.

A pic from the middle of the deadening process, noise isolator over silent coat:


Boot received 1 layer of Silent Coat and 1 layer of Noise Isolator 4mm.




Plastic panel on inside of boot received some Silent Coat Sound Absorber 7 to stop potential rattles. Very snug and tight fit when installing it afterwards, could feel it compressing the deadening when the screws were tightened. Nice 


After a bit of cutting in the door panel and plastic map pocket/stock speaker placement, I had enough space to insert the spacer for the speaker.

Stock grille fits in stock place as per rules in Master OEM:

Removing the plastic map pocket it looks like this just now:


Marked where the cutout will be on the cardboard template I made, to be transferred to a mdf sheet. Will make the baffle out of this. This again will be mounted with either self tapping screws to the inner door skin, or bolts and nuts. Latter one preferable I guess?


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## LBaudio (Jan 9, 2009)

congrats for your EMMA sound score.....


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Last weekend I went to my first emma competition for the season (last event was the finals for 2012, but they were held much later, May 2013). 

I've worked on the install, tried to fix the things that was missing at the finals and it paid off, install score went up from 105 to 114 of 115 possible points. Sound score went up 5 points as well, 269 now and 264 at the finals. 

Since this was a smaller event, they combined several classes depending on level. So all the master class cars were put in one category, both OEM like this (where you are not allowed to modify the interior/speaker placement etc at all), and unlimited class cars where anything goes. And 2 of the unlimited cars were European Champions from former seasons. So ending up with a 3rd place, behind those two cars was pretty great! 

The other OEM class car scored over 40 points lower on sound, so a good margin to the actual class competitor that attended. What was really interesting was that the Golf only had a sound score difference of 6 points to the European champion car in unlimited class that has been spent a reported $100k on..


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

Nice rotiform's

You gonna stance it?


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Nope, gonna drive it instead  Norwegian roads standards do not mix well with ultra low cars. Maybe 15 years ago I would justify looks>handling, but not anymore. Also, I only have about 0,5" left to drop and still have it road legal, the law states 80mm clearance under the car over here. If you are pulled over for a technical check, they can take your licence plates on the spot if the car is lower..


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## Voorttimies (Mar 19, 2011)

haakono said:


> Nope, gonna drive it instead  Norwegian roads standards do not mix well with ultra low cars. Maybe 15 years ago I would justify looks>handling, but not anymore. Also, I only have about 0,5" left to drop and still have it road legal, the law states 80mm clearance under the car over here. If you are pulled over for a technical check, they can take your licence plates on the spot if the car is lower..


For some weird reason that sounds like Finland... 

Nice job on the car.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Some pics and a video clip (link to local newspaper) from the emma (and dbdrag) event last weekend:



















Results emma:









Video clip:
Her jakter de på godlyden - Kultur - Tønsbergs Blad


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)




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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

Well done for having such a competetive car!! 
Everything about your golf's system is quite unusual and briliant! little subs! big amp! oem locations etc. 
Great work!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Funny that Joakim scored 1 less than you in Install...he'd posted some info on his car some time ago, and his install seemed more involved than yours. (Of course, you're in a lower class, right?) Hopefully this didn't sound like your install wasn't good, but he rebuilt the dash in his car. lol

Jay


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Not funny at all, he was missing the grille on one of the new front subwoofers since he was in the middle of installing them and not quite ready modifying the last one 

So a perfect score is 115, 2 points deduction for each speaker that is unprotected (1 speaker) makes 113. 

Getting a full score on install is not that difficult, what counts here is that everything is properly and securely mounted, cables are protected, things like this. Full score on this is 105, then there are 10 "bonus" points for craftsmanship, I got 9 out of 10, the missing one is for cables. I only have plain ones, not extra protected with braided shielding, labeling on the cables etc. Something to work on for the next event. Even though this should not count as a deduction on this level (master), only in the highest level (expert). To compete in expert you have to have become a champion in master first.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

sydmonster said:


> Well done for having such a competetive car!!
> Everything about your golf's system is quite unusual and briliant! little subs! big amp! oem locations etc.
> Great work!


Thanks you very much! 

Yes, it really has become a progress of working around the limitiations set by the car and class, trying different solutions step by step to work towards a goal. 

Not starting out with a set of stereo components, then rebuilding the car to fit them, but having a set of speaker locations of a set size and placement, and having to work *with* them. Tried a conventional 2-way tweeter/midrange setup at first, that worked ok but nothing more. Upgraded the mids and that helped a bit, but not enough. Tried with fullrange drivers and that helped greatly.

Sold the Mosconis in order to raise some cash and also get to use other amps that were already bought and tucked away. So installing the Sony kind of dictated what subs were going to fit, and 5" was the limit in order to get a flat floor. And 4 of them was the limit while still having enough room for a box with the correct volume for them. 

So working around a set of limitations if you will. I think it has been very rewarding actually, I've always though of this as being "easy and without effort", and that you *have to* rebuild doors, a-pillars, dashboards etc to make a great sounding car. But looking at sound scores as well as trusting your ears, it might just not be the case


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Yeah, I'm extremely impressed with what you managed to do within the guidelines you have to work with. I didn't realize it was that easy (so to speak) to get full points in install.

Looks great. Love the big Sony amp! I've got some older Sony's (XM4040, and buying back my XM10020 [1991, 1992] from a friend, 2 XM2100g Mobile ES amps and an XM5046 Mobile ES from around 1996)

Jay


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Yep, at the master level the install score is pretty much based on having a solid and safe install, it is very much secondary to the sound scoring that accounts for 3/4 of the total obtainable score (315 points on sound, 115 on install). 

At the next level up (highest) there is an additional 120 points on install, including overall design of both passenger and trunk department, 30 bonus points for things like motorization and things of this nature. But the sound score setup is almost identical, 321 points in expert and 315 points in master. 

So master is the most SQ oriented level I would say. Because a simple but solid install will give max install points, and the sound score is the deciding factor. In expert you can have a so and so sound score and very high install score, and beat a car that sounds way better but has a simple install with no bells and whistles so to speak. Only in the event of a tie, the car with highest SQ score wins. So if two cars have 400 points each, where one has 250 on sound and 150 on install, and the other has 200 on sound and 200 on install, the first one wins because of the higher sound score. But if it has 250 on sound and 149 on install, vs 200 on each, the one with 200 on each wins. Even if it sound worse.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Love this build


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

This is how the midbass driver is mounted, seen from the front of it. Originally the door speaker is mounted on the plastic map pocked that is screwed to the cardboard door card. And this is held on by plastic clips to the door itself. So what I've done is made a baffle and spacers from MDF, bolted to the metal door skin itself. These are bolted flat to the door skin. But the OEM speaker placement/door pocket is angled towards the pedals a bit, this becomes very apparent when viewed from another angle:
*









And even more so when viewed from my view when sitting in the car:










This tunneling effect will affect sound waves somewhat, and I've also gotten feedback from pretty much every judge and seasoned competitor that have listened to the car that door-mounted midbasses playing directly towards each other often will cause some phasing issues (which is present here, Joakim has kind of worked around it with different crossover points and slopes for each midbass driver to make the best of the current situatuon). I think that modifying this mounting position so it mimics more of the stock one with speakers more in line with the speaker grille maybe would solve these issues. This is a trial and error build afterall, not just a blueprint copy of something that works in another car.*
*
It's easier now to make adjustments to a finished product, than when starting from scratch like I did this spring with the doors. Just wondering what solution and material I'm going to go for.


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## vwtoby (Oct 28, 2005)

Ant updates? Next time you take the door panel off can you take a pic of the baffle


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Not really any big updates, I've managed to get hold of new doorpanels that match my new interior that I bought not long ago. After months of searching I found a OEM Colour Concept interior in black and blue leather. This came in both the Golf and Polo in the late 90s, and this was from a Polo. Seats fit (without too much work), but was missing doorpanels. Until I was offered some, so I have them, just not picked them up yet. Will do so next time I'm over at the east side of the country (live at the west coast).

Nice upgrade to the interior, passenger seat swapped in this pic:


Can take pics when I swap them, but nothing much to see, all is covered in damping material.. But I will make new door spacers, so can take pictures of that when I'm building them. 

Took a few pics with a better camera than the one in my phone:


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

JayinMI said:


> Yeah, I'm extremely impressed with what you managed to do within the guidelines you have to work with. I didn't realize it was that easy (so to speak) to get full points in install.
> 
> Jay


Just to add a little to my previous reply on this matter, I found the official explanation on classes in the rulebook. This explains the difference in obtainable install points in the 2 highest classes (Master and Expert):



> 3.1.5 EMMA SQ Master
> Almost the full sound-judging will be done by the judges and the Installation will be judged according to the
> Matrix. Of course, the sound should be very good but here the target is to look for a more sophisticated but
> not fancy Installation. Typical daily driven vehicles should compete in this category.





> 3.1.6 EMMA SQ Expert
> The competitors in this category are supposed to set an example for the other competitors how to be an
> exemplary EMMA-competitor – as well in a competition as in the community. The vehicle should sound
> decent, of course - but this is the category where fancy installations will receive the points they deserve and
> ...


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

National SQ finals were held this weekend. It went well


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## estione (Jul 24, 2009)

Nice well done


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Now that the national final is done, time to start thinking on improvements and rebuild. Everything in the front is fine, but new subs and amp(s) and a total redesign in the back is planned. 

And a complete teardown of everything in order to:

- lay proper wires of decent quality, especially replacing the $5 RCA cables of various brands that are there now
- deadening of the whole car incl roof. Not just front doors as it sits now
- collect my leather doorpanels and modify them so big midbass drivers and baffles fit behind them like the current ones.
- make steel baffles in the doors instead of glued on MDF like now
- modifying the mounting position of the head unit so it sits 2-3cm further in (more on this later)
- probably do up all wiring in braiding and heatshrink just so it is done. Since I keep getting pulled 1 pt. in craftsmanship wiring for not having it. 
- permanently installing a charger and hardwiring it to the distribution block in the back, if not to a second battery if I choose to install that.

This will be done regardless of what is to be done in the boot area. 

Maybe experimenting with different midbass drivers. Maybe something a little more gutsy than the utopias. Or just the proper midbass units in the Utopia series, the 6w3, I now have the 6w2 as I bought them to be paired up with tweeters and not fullrange drivers. That change came later. The setup is actually more like fullrange drivers + front subs now when looking at the frequency range they are playing. So some drivers with great extension would suit the setup best.

Also building the boot "flat" with a false floor is theoretically a good thing in regards to hauling stuff around in the "free space" over the false floor, but I'm not lugging things around in it in reality. So maybe using a bit more space for the system could be just fine? And just get a roof box for luggage?


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Took some pics the other day, probably the last "summer" pics this year as winter is not far away here up north.. 

But winter time = rebuild time 



And I'm renting a huge garage/installbay now for my graphics business/company, so plenty of space and nice temperature year round. Helps alot with motivation!


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Nice gti... is that a vr6??? I had 2 of them. One was with th3 12valve moter vr6 mt transmission. And the other one was vr6 24v mt transmission miss them.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

It's neither a GTI or vr6...  Just a base level 1,6l 101hp (euro spec).


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Ordered 2x Mosconi Zero 1 amps today. Should be a nice little upgrade from the 4-channel Focal?


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Sweet ! Where do you buy those here in the states ?


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Try ordering them from your local Focal dealer. I know we ordered a 6to8 for a customer. Since he's in Norway, I don't know if he'd know where to get them in the US.

Jay


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

In the states? No idea 

The ones I got are ex-democar ones from the distributor, actually they came from my old car (the one in my avatar), that I sold to the Mosconi distributor (one of the employees) last year, to be built as a demo car for them.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum.../70476-haakons-vw-lupo-3l-tdi-2000-mod-7.html

Might even change the Sony amp for another Zero 1, to make it a trio of them in the back. And maybe add two more 5" focal subs.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Love your build man!


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

JayinMI said:


> Try ordering them from your local Focal dealer. I know we ordered a 6to8 for a customer. Since he's in Norway, I don't know if he'd know where to get them in the US.
> 
> Jay


Ok I try that.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)




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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Small update 

Now the most of the system is out and the car is ready for a rebuild during the winter, with a deadline at the European SQ (emma) finals in the end of March 2014.

The head unit and widebands will stay, but the rest is upgraded. Amp lineup will be 3x Mosconi Zero 1, one each for widebands, mibbass drivers and subwoofer(s).

Utopia 6w2 drivers are now sold and are being replaced with Dynaudio Esotar2 650 drivers. 

Subwoofer is undecided, but candidates are: Morel Ultimo 10 or 12, Gladen Zero Pro 10 or 12, Dynaudio Esotar2 1200, or possibly a Pioneer ODR TS-W01RSII (a friend has a used one).

New cables from start to finish, and proper deadening of the whole car. Now only the front doors and trunk is done. 

Looking forward to it


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

haakono said:


> National SQ finals were held this weekend. It went well


CONGRATULATIONS!!! Sorry didn't see this earlier!!!

I like your work/cars, so well done on at Nationals!!! EXCELLENT!!!

:surprised:


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Thank you  

I actually had to source parts for this car from Australia  Well actually German made parts that I found online at an Australian parts shop, new old stock from the mid 90s. The rather special and now ultra rare blue indicator lenses and foglight covers in the front bumper.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Dynaudio Esotar 650 drivers ordered and paid for today. Fingers crossed that their price level is reflected in their performance  And that they are an improvement on the Focal Utopia 6w2 drivers they will replace.


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## abdulwq (Aug 17, 2008)

nice build...
Are you up for any donations from car? door cards or FG sub box
I may have some speaker wire to part.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Fiberglass sub box was given away to a friend with a MK3 that has helped me with MK3 related repairs. I never heard back from the seller that promised me the colour concept door cards so I just have the stock ones. Just as well, since they are already fitted with sound deadening.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Long time since update, but not much have happened either... apart from buying new midbass drivers


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)




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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

No Dynaudio and Mosconi love on this forum anymore? 

Going large and sealed for the subwoofer, it is a Digital Designs 3518. About 5.3 cubic feet (150L). I will be making a test box from MDF first, and if it works well I'll have a new one made from a little more exiting material. I have a plan 

The amps in the pic are 1 Mosconi AS100.4 4-channel, and 2 Zero One 2-channels. But I'll be getting a third Zero One shortly and will be running 3 of those, one for each speaker pair. Fullrange, Midbass and Subwoofer (DVC).


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## raresvintea (Sep 17, 2010)

Bigggg enclosure man....And DD is one of the best!


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Nice build. Seems like I've missed this thread. Currently working on a Mk3 myself. Also competing in EMMA. How will you mount those 650's? Will they fit behind the OEM grille?


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

I will mount them behind the factory grilles, the reason for choosing these was in fact that they will fit behind the grille and still clear the window mechanism behind them. 

I don't know if they will outperform the Utopias, but I needed to make some changes because the Focals ran out of steam a bit early as they were setup by he who helped me tune the setup. They really acted more as a combination of midbass and front subs, than pure midbass drivers. Really low crossover points, but it worked very well for the Emma SQ format. However, the "fun factor" was a bit lacking, because both the Utopias in front and in the back ran out of excursion pretty early. 

I originally wanted to use the cheap but (for this application) very suitable TandBand 6" neo subwoofers in the doors. They have a very dynamic sound and can really deliver. But their mounting depth is far too deep, and won't fit behind stock grilles and still clear the window. 

Ditching the MDF rings in the doors for something more compact/dense and waterproof. Possibly either fiberglass or carbon fibre spacers with a metal baffle for the speaker.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

My Seas L18 H1224 is among the best midbass drivers I've tested, they are 0,5cm too big for the OEM hole though. I use Seas L series drivers exclusively for midbass operation nowadays. The L16 is a wonderful driver as well. Drivers as the Dyn 650 doesn't necessarily perform better in the lower octaves but sounds wonderful in the midrange. In a 3-way front the midrange performance of the 650 might be wasted. Still, really well build and nice sounding drivers.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

I tested the Seas L16 (a 5,5-6" driver) at 96dB/1m.



Truly amazing performance down to 60-70Hz for such a small driver. Using these in a the OEM hole would allow for a really rigid baffle.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Yep, only one way to find out  Totally different setup now, replacing 5" subs with a 18" one, so starting from scratch really. Keeping the widebands though, they really are amazing in this setup. 

I don't use the OEM mounting in the doors though, I have cut away the whole mounting ring and the speakers are mounted directly to the doors via spacers. Not to the plastic door card. So you can squeezee in a tad larger speakers than the exact 165mm in the door card. 180mm could be on the limit, but if it is you could machine down the mounting ring a bit. We did that on some TangBands for another project:
Speaker modification - YouTube


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Hah, never seen that before. Awesome mod


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Matte blue metallic Mosconi Zero 1.. Looking forward to getting all three of them in this finish


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## sydmonster (Oct 5, 2009)

wow... lots of changes coming! lots of nice new gear... and in true Haakonon form, nicely modified to suit too...

Does this change the class of competition your going to enter?


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Yeah, some changes for sure  Only HU and widebands left from previous setup, hehe

It does not change class in reality, but for this year they have introduced a higher class for OEM installs. The difference between them is basically that the class I have been in, is based mostly on SQ, and proper/safe mounting of component. But not a lot of points to be earned for a extraordinary install to put it like that.

But now with the Expert OEM class, the install itself can be awarded in several categories, so if you for example make an effort to colourmatch the components, or redoing the finish othervise, using "exotic" materials to save weight (aluminium instead of steel, carbonfiber instead of wood etc). Motorization, lights +++ Things like this.

So I can continue in the same class, or aim higher for the install bit and change to the higher class. Very much the same sound score sheet though for sound quality. We'll see 

But speaking of it, not a grain of wood will be featured in this coming rebuild. Metalwork, acrylic and carbon fiber are the key words for now 

Just received an order of everything you need to make carbonfiber parts the right way (resin infusion/vacuum bagging) for maximum strength and minimum weight. So will be experimenting with that when I get some free time. 

Also just ordered a scissor car lift, so I can get the car a meter off the ground while working on it. No more crouching to work in the doors or boot  

One just like this:


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Happy


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Dyns look pretty. Let us know how you like them.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Everyone likes those drivers


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

I will give my feedback on them when they are installed and broken in  

Plastidipped the wheels over the weekend. Just trying it out as I wait for them to be machine polished sometime during the summer (long waiting list at the moment).

They're bright!


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## BSTYN (Jan 21, 2014)

Nice car ,nice installation


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

A handful of new pics of the car


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

I love it man ! Where did you get the plasti dip?


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Here in Norway would be the short answer  hehe


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

This is what used to be here:








*
Half of the spacer tore apart when removing the driver, from having been wet...








*
*
The rest was removed by hand, until only the last bit remained that were bonded to the door skin:








*
*
Result:








*
*
This is how the door looked before scraping away all the Tec-7:








*
Forgot to take pics here, but I've made a fiberglass baseplate that follows the contours of the door. Put the door card back to see how the Dyns would fit (you can see the fiberglass plate behind the driver)








*
*
Running Dynaudio in a VW surely should give an extra OEM point, no?  hehe








*


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Ok.. making a dummy of the door spacer to see how much space is available, and how it needs to be shaped in the end to clear the inside of the OEM door card. No craft stores here on the island, so getting a bunch of icicle sticks was pretty hard. Settled for a bag of barbeque skewers and a hot glue gun from the supermarket 
*
Made a cutout of the external diameter of the driver of thick cardboard, and taped it loosely in place where it needs to sit:








*
Sticks and hotglue 








*
When it was firm enough and did not flex when pushing on it, I removed the door panel:








*
Added some more sticks since the access was a little bit better with door card removed








*
Removed it afterwards. Not pretty, but functional enough too show that it can be done this way.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Some more progress on the door spacer. To get the baffle actually round, and not the handcut "round" shape I made first, I routered out some 3mm composite plate rings. Fastened it to the top like this:
*








*
And cut a piece of speaker grille cloth to shape:








*
I could not stretch it to the edges of the bottom plate, as it would not have fit behind the OEM speaker pocket on the door card then. Had to pull it almost straight in. Not a big issue that it became full of folds as these will be smoothed out with body filler on the outside later on.








*
Next step was to soak the fabric in resin (used polyester this time, the epoxy I had used on the bottom plate took forever to set) Let it stand overnight. Today it was rock hard.
*
Then I could remove the sticks that once held the shape up:








*
And then remove the cardboard ring they were fastened to, leaving the alloy/plastic composite ring inside.








*
Now to get some body filler to smooth out the outside, so it can be made a mould of later on.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

I've come a little further on the spacer now. Did a test fitting of the doorpanel over the current state of progress on the spacer:








*
and some minor trimming had to be done. Easy to do luckily, the door pocket (oem speaker grille) is a separate piece that can be unscrewed and removed.
*
Needed some trimming here:








*
Traced out a cutline from the back and got out the dremel:








*
Dremels are the most dangerous tools in my toolbox, the brittle cutting discs disintegrate ALL the time. This is #3 today:








*
More or less cut away everything not needed (as long as the door pocket covers the hole)*








*
And starting on the body filler bridging.. This is a skill for sure. A skill I don't possess!  Will get there in the end though..


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## vwtoby (Oct 28, 2005)

love the progress pics!

wish our doors were easier to work with


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## abdulwq (Aug 17, 2008)

are you still able to hold in the door card grill on top.?


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

vwtoby said:


> love the progress pics!
> 
> wish our doors were easier to work with


Yeah, they are not so plug and play as many others.. but it's at least doable to move the speaker from the door card to the actual door metal and still have it positioned like stock  Without rebuilding the door card itself. 



abdulwq said:


> are you still able to hold in the door card grill on top.?


Yes, the removable section on the bottom still fits over the new spacer for the speaker, and it still covers the larger hole in the door card itself. The OEM speaker grille than snaps into the lower card is held in place with butyl bits since the mounting tabs/flange has been trimmed away. Used the same method last year actually, with the Focal Utopias. 

The spacer now looks like this:


















after a lot of rounds of body filler and sanding, then painting, clearcoating, wetsanding and polishing. Since this is the base for making a mould, the better the finish, better the end result of the mould, and off course the finish of the end product.


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Some decent power is always nice to have on tap 

Waiting for the third of the trio to arrive. Agonizing


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Got my third Zero 1 a little while ago. I've changed colour on it to match the other ones already.

And some special tricks under the "bodywork"


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Probably the last update on this project:

Looking at selling the car shortly, the Mosconi amps have already been sold and the Dynaudios are in the classifieds here. The most "use" they got was to testfit one of them in the door spacer I made, they have never seen power. 

I've already got myself a new car and have started building in that one. A bit more conventional setup there with a 3-way component set, using Focal KRX3 comps. 

The Golf has been the best sounding car I've owned so far, and it even resulted in a 1st place in a national SQ championship (EMMA format). Good times


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## and_elli (Aug 7, 2012)

Did you ever finish the build?


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Its nice to see a build come full circle and to see the different variations along the way. Ive enjoyed this one! Very nice .


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

and_elli said:


> Did you ever finish the build?


Did I ever finish the lastest started rebuild? No. Did I ever have it in a finished state, competition ready? Yes I did. Very happy with the results it gave, and learning new things from the process in order to make the next car even better.



hot9dog said:


> Its nice to see a build come full circle and to see the different variations along the way. Ive enjoyed this one! Very nice .


Good to hear  Yes, trying variations along the way to suit the setup and limitiations is a great learning experience. Competing in a class where you cannot alter the interior and speaker placements gives you a challenge to best adapt your setup to the car. Soon found out that tweeters on dash and mids low in the doors were not optimal. Widebands on the dash instead moved the whole soundstage up and sharpened the placement and imaging in a very big way. But off-axis widebands aimed for purely reflective sound gives another set of hurdles to overcome. Luckily the sound tuning was done by someone far more knowledgeable than me!


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

It's very hard to get mids in doors and tweeters in dash/sails to image well. Nice build, looking forward to your next project.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

I sold this car well over a year ago.. but now I've bought it back! 

I believe the mk3 Golf is just a excellent platform for SQ builds.. looking forward to new adventures and explorations with this car and a new setup!


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

The car as it sits now on tiny wheels and narrow winter tyres. They use loads and loads of salt on the roads here in the winter, and if you have a 20 year old daily driver like this it's gonna rust, no way around it.. 

I had to remove the whole interior to see what damage this car had gotten, and sure enough 3 large holes in the floorboard. All the same, started rusting around the perimeter of 2" round rubber plugs in the floorboard until they fell out, leaving a 2-3" big hole. With the result that moisture/water had entered from below, soaking the OEM felt sound deadening, making the car rust even more because of this..

Needs to be dealt with, pics of the current state coming up soon. Also I ripped out all the cabling for the stereo, and all the speakers etc. Starting out fresh soon!


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Man I lov your builds you always trying new gear and new ways jam stuff in car! Trimming a speaker down is fantastic work! I follow you on utube now!


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Thanks 

Should be fun starting from zero again in this car. It really just started out as "let's throw in a bunch of stuff laying around and go compete in one week". Which was done, but that meant no proper wiring, sound deadening and so on. Wires were spliced where the lengths laying around wasn't long enough etc. The one midbass speaker cable was spliced with 3 different cables of different gauge for instance  

Only sound deadening done was in the front doors, a couple of days before the national sq finals. Since the car would be stationary at the judging and had no rattles in panels etc as stock, only the doors were done since they housed the midbass drivers.

But now I can start off properly 

Beginning with removing the seats:









Had a peek under the carpet, and sure enough.. rusthole straight through the floorboard. The red scissor lift showing up 









Carpet and center console removed, very OEM floor underneath:









Another rusthole, and a lot of surface rust.. Already started removing it with a 3M rust/paint stripper wheel.









I removed the 1/0 ga power cable when selling the car, and the new (now old) owner put some 4ga in its place. Also a couple of runs of random speaker cable here


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

To access the speaker wire (to remove it) I had to uninstall the widebands on the dash:









So I could disconnect them and rip out the wire:









Bye bye to you all!









All surface rust removed, and open surfaces sealed with ruststopping epoxy sealer/primer:









Two layers with 6 hours between them, then wait 24h and paint over as per instructions. Done!









Now I just have to cut cleanly around the rust holes and have new plates welded in. 
Same in the rear floorboard, both sides:









Empty interior, ready for deadening:









Had some already installed in the boot area:


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Things ordered for this next setup. 20m roll of 50mm2 Ground Zero power cable:









1 Ground Zero triple shielded RCA cable. Just using a single pair since the amp distributes the signal internally.









2 bulk packs of Ground Zero alubutyl deadening (3,78m2 x2)









2 sheets of B-Quiet Vcomp MVL+foam mats (2,5m2)









1 Ground Zero roller for deadening sheets









And here it all is


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## carlr (Feb 27, 2011)

Looking forward to see where the next gen build goes!


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

What's the gear going in?


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## haakono (Apr 5, 2009)

Not really sure yet, but the heart of the system will be my Helix P SIX DSP amplifier, 6x120w with 8-channel DSP (2 preouts on it)

Right now I have a Pioneer DEH-80PRS head unit, but I do have my eye on the Clarion NX706 with hires audio/DSD and optical digital output since the Helix has optical in. And hires/96khz resolution on the DSP section. 

Not sure on speakers either, but possibly Focal Utopia be no7 active. Then the whole p six would power the components, and a separate sub amp would be needed for the sub(s). Not sure on those either atm


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Holy ****!!! wow great work so far!


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