# knock-offs on eBay



## saintb (Dec 20, 2006)

What brands are often, or occasionally, imitated and sold as the original goods? How prevalent are knock-offs on eBay?

saintb


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

saintb said:


> What brands are often, or occasionally, imitated and sold as the original goods? How prevalent are knock-offs on eBay?
> 
> saintb


I bought an Apple Shuffle, and before I got it, I emailed the seller asking if it was a genuine Apple product. It was not, and I requested a refund.

I've seen Kenwood knock offs more than anything in car audio. There are plenty of cosmetic knockoffs of Pioneer, Alpine and Kenwood and have been for many years.


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## Steak (Mar 16, 2006)

saintb said:


> What brands are often, or occasionally, imitated and sold as the original goods? How prevalent are knock-offs on eBay?
> 
> saintb


I've heard that there are quite a few Dynaudio, Focal and Pioneer imitations... would someone be able to back me up here?


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## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

Steak said:


> I've heard that there are quite a few Dynaudio, Focal and Pioneer imitations... would someone be able to back me up here?


i've heard about and seen focal knockoffs, wouldn't be surprized to see dyn knocked off, but to think that someone might have a fake set of prs components would just boggle my mind. if they do, they must be some really good sounding knockoffs! also heard of cerwin vega being knocked off. bobtitts said something about that a couple times.


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## tr0y_audi0 (Feb 13, 2007)

Steak said:


> I've heard that there are quite a few Dynaudio, Focal and Pioneer imitations... would someone be able to back me up here?


Yes on the Focal, Not sure on the Dyn..
Heard of Zapco but I think they took care of that..


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## Beerhero (Feb 25, 2008)

There are lots and lots of Dynaudio knock-offs on ebay.  I don't think that they sound much worse than real Dynaudios, though. Can anyone confirm that?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Alpine amps.


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## HondAudio (Oct 19, 2006)

What about those 'Dynavox' speakers that Parts Express carries? They look a lot like Dynaudio. Even the label kind of imitates the Dynaudio font.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

How about JL Audio? Do they have fakes around?


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## Sephiroth619 (Jun 24, 2005)

I actually purchased a set of the fake Dynaudios off ebay. I used to keep an eye on ebay for Dyns religiously until I ran across a seller that were selling them brand new for an unbelievable price. In my case, I got what I paid for. I didn't realize they were fake until I kept reading thread after thread on fake Dyns floating around ebay. After realizing mines were fake, it was already too late for a refund and my credit card company said I was pretty much screwed. 

Not to promote them or anything but I gotta say, they are some pretty nice replicas build wise. I used to own a set of genuine Dyns and couldn't tell a difference if I saw and heard them in a/b comparisons. But then, like the picture several posts above shows, the differences are there.


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## DonovanM (Nov 1, 2006)

Surprising that DLS has not been mentioned, there were some fakes of their amps and speakers floating around last year. There used to be a page on their site with more info, I can't find it now though - maybe they got the people producing them shut down.

Either way, there are in all probability fraudulent DLS gear still circulation.


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## simplicityinsound (Feb 2, 2007)

i had a few sets of fake DLS comp sets come to me by customers via ebay...

most were hte UR set.

sounded okay, a bit weird,but okay...one set's surround disentegrated ith in 3months, the other set's xovers melted somehow with in half a year, i have refused to install any ebayed DLS (rear or fake) since then..

also, had a guy bring me a fake dls A3 he got off ebay (though he claimed he bought it authorizd unitl i pressed him on it), no idea if it worked or not, i refused it


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Audiobling, Pyramid and Pyle are probably knocked offed the most.


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## Beerhero (Feb 25, 2008)

Most power sellers on ebay sell fake Dynaudios, JL audio, MB quart, Rainbow, and Rockford Fosgate components. Also there are tons and tons of fake amplifiers. Check out Malaysia actions online. This is where most of the fake products on ebay come from....

http://www.lelong.com.my/


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## Beerhero (Feb 25, 2008)

DonovanM said:


> Surprising that DLS has not been mentioned, there were some fakes of their amps and speakers floating around last year. There used to be a page on their site with more info, I can't find it now though - maybe they got the people producing them shut down.
> 
> Either way, there are in all probability fraudulent DLS gear still circulation.


New DLS on ebay are also knock offs.


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

Beerhero said:


> Most power sellers on ebay sell fake Dynaudios, JL audio, MB quart, Rainbow, and Rockford Fosgate components. Also there are tons and tons of fake amplifiers. Check out Malaysia actions online. This is where most of the fake products on ebay come from....
> 
> http://www.lelong.com.my/


You sure about that? Rockford, JL Audio and MB Quart? I have yet to hear of any fakes for the first two and the second one was a long time ago. So easy to buy real stuff, why b other risking jail for getting fake ones?

Juan


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## LastResort (Oct 24, 2007)

Is it wrong that I want to buy the fake Dyn's just to see how they sounds?


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Beerhero said:


> Most power sellers on ebay sell fake Dynaudios, JL audio, MB quart, Rainbow, and Rockford Fosgate components. Also there are tons and tons of fake amplifiers. Check out Malaysia actions online. This is where most of the fake products on ebay come from....
> 
> http://www.lelong.com.my/


That website is the heaven for fake products....


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## Beerhero (Feb 25, 2008)

OldOneEye said:


> You sure about that? Rockford, JL Audio and MB Quart? I have yet to hear of any fakes for the first two and the second one was a long time ago. So easy to buy real stuff, why b other risking jail for getting fake ones?
> 
> Juan


Here is just 5% of fake products that you can buy from ebay sellers and other unauthorized online stores. People  who has connections 
with Malaysian distributors can sell you any speaker set for $40-80. Damn you fake-bay!!!


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## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

Like anything that gets sent over seas to be built, you can bet the factory owner will steal your design and build it during third shifts (night time) using slightly cheaper materials. It happens with EVERYTHING.


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

Speakers and subs is known to have lots of fakes, but how about amps? I just bought a JL Audio A6450 from Ebay US yesterday.... Will be the amp also got fake?


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

LastResort said:


> Is it wrong that I want to buy the fake Dyn's just to see how they sounds?


No it's not....I was thinking the same thing.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

kyheng said:


> Speakers and subs is known to have lots of fakes, but how about amps? I just bought a JL Audio A6450 from Ebay US yesterday.... Will be the amp also got fake?


I doubt it's fake....maybe transshipped    ....but not fake.:blush:


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

There might be a ton of fake stuff in Asia because they don't really care too much about protection people's intellectual property. But I have yet to see a fake JL Audio amp, Rockford Fosgate amp or anything similar. And I've been working for a dealer as a buyer for Rockford and MB Quart for a LONG time.

When they can't sell enough of the real product during a downturn and sell that at a discount, why bother trying to make a good fake (which in many cases has a ton of risk for the importer and seller).

So while there might be widespread counterfeit stuff in Asia, I would say there is little proof that "most" power sellers are selling fakes since I doubt that much could make it into the country undetected by the manufacturers and they would warn people about it.

Juan


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## Beerhero (Feb 25, 2008)

I bought 2 speakers on ebay (JL XR SCi and JL ZR) form 2 different sellers with 20,000+ feedbacks and they were both fakes. I then sold them to other people on ebay and they both loved them.  There are also some fake head units on ebay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guMWaIfoEZc


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

I would venture to guess the only way to easily knock off a head unit is to be one of the people who manufactured the parts in the first place. A lot of R&D and special parts go into making pretty much any head unit.

Speakers are relatively easy in comparison. 


Juan


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## tr0y_audi0 (Feb 13, 2007)

had a guy bring in a Pioneer DEH-P6200..
That is a real part number but if it was a DEH-P it would have a CD changer port.. This one did not also had a cheap (Sony Like Plug/Harness)
real cheap lable & the sliver plastic was horable..


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## MerlinWerks (Feb 4, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Alpine amps.


Which ones?


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## Beerhero (Feb 25, 2008)

My fist encounter of an Asian knock off was in 1998, when I bought new JVC Cd player online. It worked fine but after about 2 years it stopped reading CDs. A repair man told me that I had a knock-off


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

Beerhero,
I'm waiting for the proof. Considering the amount of product transhipped (and the supposed savings from buying a knockoff) why is it all the transhippers (big and small) are within a couple margin points of each other (and rarely if ever below large dealer discount pricing)? 

Juan


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

MerlinWerks : Those Alpine is V12 4ch amps, selling for rm150 or USD40-50.
GlasSman : I agree with you that it might be transshipped or maybe the seller bought in bulk which he got a cheap price? I don't mind if I got a transshipped item, as long as they are not fake. I bought from Indoaudio from Ebay anyway, by reading his rating, I doubt that the amp is fake....


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## MadMaxSE-L (Oct 19, 2006)

DonovanM said:


> Surprising that DLS has not been mentioned, there were some fakes of their amps and speakers floating around last year. There used to be a page on their site with more info, I can't find it now though - maybe they got the people producing them shut down.
> 
> Either way, there are in all probability fraudulent DLS gear still circulation.


I was going to mention this; is there a way to distinguish the faxes from the reals on the fake Iridium drivers that were going around? I'd like to know but haven't been able to find anything out...

-Matt


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## Beerhero (Feb 25, 2008)

OldOneEye said:


> Beerhero,
> I'm waiting for the proof. Considering the amount of product transhipped (and the supposed savings from buying a knockoff) why is it all the transhippers (big and small) are within a couple margin points of each other (and rarely if ever below large dealer discount pricing)?
> 
> Juan


What kind of proof? lol The only proof I can give you is my experience. Sellers on ebay may be resellers themselves so the prices are high. If you wonder how these goods enter US market, here is my explanation:

Genuine manufacturer sells products to Asian countries at discounted bulk prices. Then, these products are exchanged with fake products and marked "transshipped." Then, using the documents of genuine products, fake stuff can freely enter US gray market. The genuine products that were left in Asia are then sold to Asians at high prices. (The proof is that there are lots of genuine product on Malaysian markets. If you searched the website that I posted earlier you would know) Fake products are sold to Americans at lower prices. Everyone is happy.


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## tr0y_audi0 (Feb 13, 2007)

I know some of the online shops have called me trying to buy my 07 gear for dirt... like my JL 10w7's for $150  
Yeah dont think so..
some of the stuff on ebay is just stagnet gear for some shops..


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## Beerhero (Feb 25, 2008)

MadMaxSE-L said:


> I was going to mention this; is there a way to distinguish the faxes from the reals on the fake Iridium drivers that were going around? I'd like to know but haven't been able to find anything out...
> 
> -Matt


Hi, this is original DLS, if your's don't look exactly the same, the chances are they are fakes:




















Asian fakes look like this + some other variations that you can see in my previous posts (obvious differences are crossovers, cone and tweeter materials):

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_10486_DLS+Ultimate+Iridium+6.2i.html#


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

I worked for an online retailer for almost 6 years. We sold pretty much all the brands that are being discussed, and a few more that are not. The amount of gear that the manufacturers sell out the back door is pretty big. The number of times I have seen actual counterfeit gear for certain categories (and I've been on forums almost 15 years) I can count on one hand (amps and head units). Again, this is the US. 

Now, manufacturers like to be able to say "those ebay guys are selling counterfeit, stolen, b-stock, used items..." when in fact they have a pretty good idea it is not any of the above. When stuff is counterfeit, guys will put it all over their websites (and people online who bought it will also post pictures). That isn't happening for a lot of this stuff you are claiming is fake.

Fake stuff is so cheap to produce, why would you sell it at the same price as real stuff? Why would you try sneaking it into the US when you could always sell it in countries that don't send counterfeiters to jail? 

Like I said, in my experience. Granted, it's almost 15 years online involved in car audio and another 10 being in and around car audio as a profession. 

Juan


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

X2, I don't think US sellers dare to sell fake products as there's a law to protect them. Unlike asia countries, there's no such law yet(even have, but not enforced fully)


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## MXXN (Jan 28, 2008)

SO...is there reputable dealers/powersellers/online retailer that anyone can attest for? 

I've been out of the car audio loop for about 10 years. Obviously this is my first post on DIY and I am getting back into trying to catch up with whats going on. 

The shops I trusted back then are gone, moved, focusing on home equipment etc. All the "hook ups" gone and no one in the area I am comfortable with. I'm at ground zero

I guess the fakes are just punishments for guys who have to try and save a buck to own it in the first place...suck to b one of those guys


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## Beerhero (Feb 25, 2008)

kyheng said:


> X2, I don't think US sellers dare to sell fake products as there's a law to protect them. Unlike asia countries, there's no such law yet(even have, but not enforced fully)


They have documents of genuine products. You can sell whatever you want as long as you have paperwork....


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## AzGrower (May 30, 2005)

DLS amps


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

Beerhero said:


> They have documents of genuine products. You can sell whatever you want as long as you have paperwork....


You really think its that easy? The manufacturers (well, the brand owners since in some cases they don't manufacturer anything) are selling product made in Asia to Asians. Do you think the boxes are the same? Do you think the owners manuals are the same? There isn't any paperwork saying its legit product for the US since the product in almost all cases never made it to the US. They would be a little dumb to ship heavy products (amps and speakers) from Asia, to the US and then back to Asia (shipping is so expensive that these are some of the products that are still cost effective to assemble in the US. You can't really make speakers in the US anymore for the most part.

Juan


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

AzGrower said:


> DLS amps


That makes sense considering those amps are made in Asia....so the factory runs legit product for 2 shifts....runs a 3rd GHOST SHIFT for the counterfeit amps.

In these cases I see no reason why the counterfeits can't be of the same quality as the legit products.


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## MadMaxSE-L (Oct 19, 2006)

Beerhero said:


> Hi, this is original DLS, if your's don't look exactly the same, the chances are they are fakes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gladly, mine are real - I was just wondering what the differences were. 

Thanks for the reply though.

-Matt


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## Hodges (Mar 5, 2008)

Well im a sucker. I thought I was going to save some dough buying on eBay. I wonder how bad the stuff really is. I know I was watching G4TV once where they bought knock offs of iPods and different things in Hong Kong or Tokyo or somewhere and they LOVED the products. Less then half price too. I think its wrong for them to steal someone else's designs and sell them but if you accidentally buy a knock off it may not be to bad.....right? Thats what I will keep telling myself anyway. I always look to see where the stuff ships from. Like these supposed MB Quarts. Ohh well

http://cgi.ebay.com/MB-Quart-PCE-21...tcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## BTA (Nov 5, 2005)

The thing is most actual fakes will probably be very close in performance to the real deal, since it was probably built in the same factory that builds the real thing. The only problem is the quality control is probably non-existant and they might substitute some cheaper materials (although it's probably just as cost effective to use the same materials since it is all bought in bulk anyway)


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## Beerhero (Feb 25, 2008)

OldOneEye said:


> You really think its that easy? The manufacturers (well, the brand owners since in some cases they don't manufacturer anything) are selling product made in Asia to Asians. Do you think the boxes are the same? Do you think the owners manuals are the same? There isn't any paperwork saying its legit product for the US since the product in almost all cases never made it to the US. They would be a little dumb to ship heavy products (amps and speakers) from Asia, to the US and then back to Asia (shipping is so expensive that these are some of the products that are still cost effective to assemble in the US. You can't really make speakers in the US anymore for the most part.
> 
> Juan


The boxes, manuals, and all packaging is fake. I was talking about documents that you need to import fake products into US. Those documents were created by the Genuine manufactures that say that products exit, but products were actually exchanged with fake ones somewhere in Asia, and marked as "transshipped."


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

BTA said:


> The thing is most actual fakes will probably be very close in performance to the real deal, since it was probably built in the same factory that builds the real thing. The only problem is the quality control is probably non-existant and they might substitute some cheaper materials (although it's probably just as cost effective to use the same materials since it is all bought in bulk anyway)


Again, what would make you say that? The best ones I have seen were made by one of the suppliers of the parts to the factory in Germany. But it's much easier to take a part from lets say DLS and take it somewhere else to be made.

Making a "real" knockoff in the factory the makes the stuff is incredibly risky (the manufacturers like Rockford and Harman weren't born yesterday... I'm sure this is something they have to deal with).

The other issue is that there really isn't that much money in this stuff compared to some of the other stuff they could be making in a plant sophisticated enough to make electronics. Telecommunications equipment, computer equipment. Heck, even cigarette?

I'm willing to be that the people who claim there are tons of counterfeit items on ebay and online are the ones who work for companies who look the other way when legitimate product gets sold to the guys on ebay and online.

In my experience looking online, I have seen dynaudio and DLS knocked off the most. Some MB Quart as well. The rest of the stuff is guys who claim its happening but never have a real one photographed next to a fake one to back it up. I don't think I've ever seen a Rockford Fosgate amp in the US knocked off and results posted online. 

Juan


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. So someone who sells fake product in Asia is buying real product from Europe so he can exchange it for fakes and send the fakes to the US? What do they do with the real product in Asia, product with no boxes? You don't think someone would ask in customs "why are you sending product from Europe to Asia on the way to the US?".

It would be much easier to send product directly from Asia to the US and sneak it in. The big issue is that the US manufacturers probably have penalties in place for a factory to make products on their "third" shift that are severe. They also all talk to each other and let each other know who not to deal with. Next, if customs catches you trying to run fake paperwork, that's going to be an issue to. Then, if they catch you selling it in the US there is even more legal liability for anyone involved who actually knew they were buying fakes. Once fake product leaves Asia towards the US, there is a great deal of risk for anyone who is involved in it. Why bother having it leave Asia when most of the countries in Asia with an appetitte for car audio don't do much to protect these foreign brands anyway? 

The cases I have heard of involve a raw parts supplier using its knowhow to supply parts to make knockoffs and of former suppliers who no longer have relationships with the company continuing to make product that it used to make when it did have a relationship. I do not think its as common as people have said is in this thread, where people claim its most of the power sellers on ebay (does anyone really want to be part of a widespread conspiracy to bring in and sell counterfeit products across state lines? In the US that is a serious crime that lands people in jail with major time and very large fines). 

Juan




Beerhero said:


> The boxes, manuals, and all packaging is fake. I was talking about documents that you need to import fake products into US. Those documents were created by the Genuine manufactures that say that products exit, but products were actually exchanged with fake ones somewhere in Asia, and marked as "transshipped."


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## Beerhero (Feb 25, 2008)

OldOneEye said:


> I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. So someone who sells fake product in Asia is buying real product from Europe so he can exchange it for fakes and send the fakes to the US? What do they do with the real product in Asia, product with no boxes? You don't think someone would ask in customs "why are you sending product from Europe to Asia on the way to the US?".


The genuine products AND boxes are swapped with fake products AND boxes. Everything is boxed all the time, no one opens the packaging. The reason Asians would do that is because at the end twice as much products being sold than created. No one send genuine products to Asia to be shipped to US. The products are intended to be sold in Asia, but Asian distributors report that no one is buying product, and they need to transship products to somewhere else... Of course they are "transshipping" fakes at this point.... 



OldOneEye said:


> It would be much easier to send product directly from Asia to the US and sneak it in. The big issue is that the US manufacturers probably have penalties in place for a factory to make products on their "third" shift that are severe. They also all talk to each other and let each other know who not to deal with. Next, if customs catches you trying to run fake paperwork, that's going to be an issue to. Then, if they catch you selling it in the US there is even more legal liability for anyone involved who actually knew they were buying fakes. Once fake product leaves Asia towards the US, there is a great deal of risk for anyone who is involved in it. Why bother having it leave Asia when most of the countries in Asia with an appetitte for car audio don't do much to protect these foreign brands anyway?
> 
> The cases I have heard of involve a raw parts supplier using its knowhow to supply parts to make knockoffs and of former suppliers who no longer have relationships with the company continuing to make product that it used to make when it did have a relationship. I do not think its as common as people have said is in this thread, where people claim its most of the power sellers on ebay (does anyone really want to be part of a widespread conspiracy to bring in and sell counterfeit products across state lines? In the US that is a serious crime that lands people in jail with major time and very large fines).
> 
> Juan



No one "sneaks in" fake products because it is too risky. The fake products enter here legally under legal documents, people who do it, wear suits and neckties.


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## sundownz (Apr 13, 2007)

I had my hands on a counterfeit Alpine amplifier -- it had weights in it to make it seem heavier and "higher quality" -- the external build looked darn near identical to the real amp.


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## red03vette (Sep 3, 2007)

i am thinking of purchasing a kenwood dvd player for my system. i can get them at my local dealer for hundreds off of retail, but online i can save about 40% more. if i am looking at ebay for products like head units (kenwood dvd players in this case) should i be worried? how can i tell a real kenwood from a fake online with only pics? is it worth the risk? are powersellers safer than most? this stuff kinda freaks me out.  

thanks duce


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

I doubt headunits are going to be fake, but a chance it may be a refurbished unit

Edited for Juan


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

azngotskills said:


> I doubt headunits are going to be fake, but a high chance it may be a refurbished unit


I wouldn't say that. A power seller can't stay in business too long selling products advertised as new if they are not. 

Juan


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## kyheng (Jan 31, 2007)

I just got my A6450, normally where does the serial number sticker sticked at?


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## NIGGY (Mar 8, 2008)

cheap beer money man shouldn't be shopping for fine champane....

buy the real stuff


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## txbonds (Mar 10, 2008)

So am I correct in assuming that the pics earlier in the thread are implying that sonicelectronix.com is selling fake gear? I mean, I'm shocked after reading through this thread, and honestly scare to order anything else car audio at this point.

I've got a pioneer premier fh-p800bt, brand new unit on pre order. Hasn't even been released from pioneer yet, and I've ordered it from www.audiovideodimension.com and now I'm wondering if I should be worried about it's authenticity? As far as I know they are not an authorized pioneer dealer, so how do I know and should I be too worried?


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## 96dak (Jan 28, 2008)

kyheng said:


> I just got my A6450, normally where does the serial number sticker sticked at?


 serial should be a sticker on the back panel.


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## 96dak (Jan 28, 2008)

txbonds said:


> So am I correct in assuming that the pics earlier in the thread are implying that sonicelectronix.com is selling fake gear? I mean, I'm shocked after reading through this thread, and honestly scare to order anything else car audio at this point.
> 
> I've got a pioneer premier fh-p800bt, brand new unit on pre order. Hasn't even been released from pioneer yet, and I've ordered it from www.audiovideodimension.com and now I'm wondering if I should be worried about it's authenticity? As far as I know they are not an authorized pioneer dealer, so how do I know and should I be too worried?


 as far as ive been told(by my pioneer rep) the only authorized online PREMIER retailer is crutchfield. so your new deck is coming without any kind of warranty from pioneer (again, as far as ive been told by my pioneer rep)


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## envisionelec (Dec 14, 2005)

Beerhero said:


> My fist encounter of an Asian knock off was in 1998, when I bought new JVC Cd player online. It worked fine but after about 2 years it stopped reading CDs. A repair man told me that I had a knock-off


Hah - I worked as a warranty tech for a JVC dealer. Most of their stuff stopped working after two years! I've never seen a knock-off JVC.


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## txbonds (Mar 10, 2008)

96dak said:


> as far as ive been told(by my pioneer rep) the only authorized online PREMIER retailer is crutchfield. so your new deck is coming without any kind of warranty from pioneer (again, as far as ive been told by my pioneer rep)


I guess that's okay, as it's only $269, and while that's a lot of money the lack of warranty is no different than buying it used on this forum. I just want to make sure it is a genuine item with correct specs and what not, and that it isn't a knock off.

I got a good price by preordereing, although it isn't supposed to ship for another few weeks or so.


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

The odds of a knockoff for a Pioneer head unit in the US are very small. Did anyone notice the stuff being knocked off is usually for companies that have a very small presence in the US and can't afford to go after people. 

I would hate to be the guy caught selling counterfeit Sony lets say. They basically have a legal department (think RIAA) that I'm told like kicking people that mess with them in the nuts for sport. 

Juan


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## txbonds (Mar 10, 2008)

http://audiovideodimension.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1476

Says it's new and comes with warranty from them, so at least I'll have something even if pioneer won't honor it. Either way, it's a fairly low priced head unit compared to many. Wouldn't have taken the same chance on one that was $1000 probably, but there wasn't anywhere locally to get this unit and crutchfield doesn't carry the premier version.

But, I was interested in the DLS speakers and a DLS A7, and now I'm scared to even look at them. Especially if it's true that the sonicelectronix one is not original. I was looking at other products from them as well. Oh well.....


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## MadMaxSE-L (Oct 19, 2006)

txbonds said:


> http://audiovideodimension.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1476
> 
> Says it's new and comes with warranty from them, so at least I'll have something even if pioneer won't honor it. Either way, it's a fairly low priced head unit compared to many. Wouldn't have taken the same chance on one that was $1000 probably, but there wasn't anywhere locally to get this unit and crutchfield doesn't carry the premier version.
> 
> But, I was interested in the DLS speakers and a DLS A7, and now I'm scared to even look at them. Especially if it's true that the sonicelectronix one is not original. I was looking at other products from them as well. Oh well.....


The DLS speakers I have for sale are origionals 

-Matt


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## donpisto (Jul 26, 2006)

DonovanM said:


> Surprising that DLS has not been mentioned, there were some fakes of their amps and speakers floating around last year. There used to be a page on their site with more info, I can't find it now though - maybe they got the people producing them shut down.
> 
> Either way, there are in all probability fraudulent DLS gear still circulation.





MadMaxSE-L said:


> Gladly, mine are real - I was just wondering what the differences were.
> 
> Thanks for the reply though.
> 
> -Matt


Yep, plenty of fakes and I had the Iridium 6.2 set, though I just sold it. I knew they were real but wanted the buyer to be sure they were so I emailed DLS. Here is the email convo (start from the bottom and read up):


Info <[email protected]> wrote:

It can be very hard to tell the difference, but sometimes the filter is a little different with other color of PCB and other small differences. But your filters looked exactly as the original.

/Gunnar

Från: Levon -[mailto:[email protected]]
Skickat: den 6 mars 2008 17:26
Till: [email protected]
Ämne: Re: SV: Verifying Authenticity

Great! Thanks so much for taking the time to verify. Out of curiosity, what is it that distinguishes the real ones from the fake ones?

- Levon

Info <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Levon and thanks for your mail.
I have studied all the photos and you can be sure that this is a genuinde DLS Iridium 6.2. Everything matches the original!

Best regards
Gunnar / DLS

Från: Levon -[mailto:[email protected]]
Skickat: den 5 mars 2008 22:38
Till: [email protected]
Ämne: Verifying Authenticity

Hello,

I have the DLS Iridium 6.2 components and wanted to verify the authenticity of them. I have been told by the original owner that they, however, I would like to cover my bases and double check with you, the actual company. Attached are several pictures of the mid, tweeter, and crossover. If you would please look them over and let me know whether they are indeed authentic or not I would greatly appreciate it.

Regards,
Levon


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## deadbeat son (Feb 24, 2008)

96dak said:


> as far as ive been told(by my pioneer rep) the only authorized online PREMIER retailer is crutchfield. so your new deck is coming without any kind of warranty from pioneer (again, as far as ive been told by my pioneer rep)


But Crutchfield doesn't have a single piece of Premier gear listed on their website.  

-JP


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## txbonds (Mar 10, 2008)

deadbeat son said:


> But Crutchfield doesn't have a single piece of Premier gear listed on their website.
> 
> -JP


Which is why I ordered it from the other place. Crutchfield is advertising the fh-p8000bt, but that is the non premier version of what I ordered which is the fh-p800bt. Go figure.


At this rate, I won't have warranty on a single piece of my system.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

It is getting to the point where all this stuff, even better stuff, is made in China anyway. Pretty easy to copy when you are making the real thing too, and there is nobody to stop them. We pay every day for our most expensive court system in the world, and they laugh at it.


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

sqshoestring said:


> It is getting to the point where all this stuff, even better stuff, is made in China anyway. Pretty easy to copy when you are making the real thing too, and there is nobody to stop them. We pay every day for our most expensive court system in the world, and they laugh at it.


Do you know where Pioneer makes there stuff? Pretty sure it isn't China (just for that reason). They have been making it in other places in asia for some time (ditto some of the other Japanese guys).

Juan


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