# My install > Peerless & DLS



## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

As promised, here u are : http://forum.4tuning.ro/showthread.php?t=14303&page=2


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## |Tch0rT| (May 7, 2005)

Wow, I like that a lot. I need to do some door pods like that! Nice work. =D

Ryan


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## Ayrton (Jan 17, 2006)

Nice glass work on the door panels.


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## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

Damn. Well done. The material over the doors tops it off.

Any plans for grilles?

-aaron


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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

ArcL100 said:


> Damn. Well done. The material over the doors tops it off.
> 
> Any plans for grilles?
> 
> -aaron


grilles are for chickens.


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## mr tibbs (Dec 18, 2005)

Beautiful work man!! How does it sound? I wish I had that kind of skills!!


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## jay (Sep 12, 2005)

very impressive install! are the exclusives touching the lower dash? are you getting any dash vibrations? and like everyone else, how does it sound??


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## septimus (Mar 8, 2006)

very impressive. Does your knee sit right in the way of the driver 8"? My 6" is behind my leg and it aggrevates me.


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## Jaredl (Feb 2, 2006)

Those doors look great, especially the stitching. I think you should cover the handles in the same material that you did for the new part of the doors, though.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

The doors are touching the dash but no vibrations there. The sound is exactly what i was expecting from them. I am now crossing my sub at 40Hz and often i switch it off. The midbass produced by theese speakers is king-size, and cannot be found on 6.5" speakers. The sub-bass is close to the one of my 12W7 wich i find awesome. The speakers play 40 to 500Hz and are happy with it at any power levels ! I don't think grills are needed since there's plenty of space left for the passengers feet !


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## rbenz27 (Mar 9, 2006)

Very nice install. Congrats.


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## nickgonzo (Dec 22, 2005)

niceeee


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Very cool, I'm jealous!

Chad


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks for your inputs !


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Mi piace! Molto bene!


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

oh wow that leather stitching is elite man WOW


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

holy crap I can't believe you guys are so hardcore back home. I knew you were picking an 8 inch peerless driver but I didn't know you had VRX's and such
I'm comming back to Bucharest in two weeks, let me know if I can audition your audisons


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Anytime u want ! Sent me a pm when u're coming and if i'm in Bucharest we'll meet !


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

Amazing work my Romanian friend


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

That's a killer front stage.


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

fuscobal said:


> Anytime u want ! Sent me a pm when u're coming and if i'm in Bucharest we'll meet !


Sure will! I definitely want to hear the exclusives, I opted for the xls 8 and I want hear the difference, although I kinda know your install is way more solid. I want to check out the mids too, it looks like your sound stage is quite high, headunit,craftsmanship...so much to see  
A friend of mine went to Oradea a couple of weeks ago and saw his first Thesis. 6 years in the states and he had to go back home to see the best he he
I'll be in town for 3 months so I'll pm u 
thanks!


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Ok, no problem. If u want i can talk to Audison dealer in Romania and maybe u can also listen to his Thesis wich powers a set of Hertz Mille on a Subaru STI !


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## Finleyville (Jun 17, 2005)

Very nice to see another Golf owner here! Fantastic install. Did you originally have A-pillar airbags? If so, did you remove them? That is the reason I didn't mount my Trius in my R32's pillars. 

I didn't see how your sub is mounted in the trunk. Do you have it glassed in or just in a box?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

fuscobal said:


> Ok, no problem. If u want i can talk to Audison dealer in Romania and maybe u can also listen to his Thesis wich powers a set of Hertz Mille on a Subaru STI !


How can I refuse  I think I saw the install somewhere on the net, uses hertz ribbons right? If it does it's even better I have a bonner for those and I use planar tweeters in my setup too. I heard u are one of the top guys in town in sq competitions, sweet stuff. I'll let u know when I can drop by for sure.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

The sub it's in a sealed mdf box. I do have airbags in a-pillars but they are very high and have nothing to do with the mods i've made ! Yes, cvjoint, he uses the ribbons !


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

How do you cross your 2.5 dls mid with the HDS? Oh yeah, and how did you manage to cross the Jl with the HDS so low? I don't have any filter option below 50hz and you cut yours at what, 40?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

I cross them over at 500Hz. The midbass can be crossed at ...50, 40, 31.5, 25 or through with this HU !


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## mitchyz250f (May 14, 2005)

Anyone know of a Romanian translater page? I would really like to read that post.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Tell me if this is the one and i'll translate it for u !

Comentarii :

Difuzoare folosite >

Tweeter : DLS UR 1"
Midrange : DLS UR 2.5"
Mid-bass : Peerless HDS Exclusive 8"

Pregatirea portierelor >

Scopul inlocuirii mid-bass-ului Iridium a fost nepotrivirea acestuia cu incinta portierei si atenuarea destul de pronuntata a frecventelor joase, ceea ce ducea la o frecventa de taiere intre mid-bass si subwoofer de 80Hz, suficient de ridicata pentru a duce la o lipsa de coerenta intre cele 2 si la localizarea sub-bass-ului in spate. O alta problema a fost pozitionarea defectuoasa a difuzorului de bas din fabrica, ceea ce a necesitat gasirea unei amplasari cat mai in fata si jos din rationamente de PLD ( path length difference ) si coerenta intre mid-bass si midrange. Decupatura de o forma oarecare din primele imagini a fost singura solutie gasita pentru evitarea cadrului de rezistenta si a mecanismelor situate la interiorul portierei si chiar si asa am fost nevoiti sa mutam cateva cabluri. S-a adaugat apoi un inel de MDF care sa urmareasca forma decupaturii iar acesta a fost etanseizat cu silicon de parbriz pentru a evita scapari de aer pe sub fata de plastic/fibra a portierei. A fost adaugat un al doilea inel foarte subtire din MDF de 8mm de aceeasi forma care s-a prins prin suruburi de primul si care a fost monolitizat cu fata de plastic prin fibra de sticla. Intre cele 2 inele a fost pusa o garnitura pentru un contact optim si tot intre ele se face separarea intre fata de plastic si cea de tabla. In prezent pentru a putea scoate fata de plastic, se scoate difuzorul si apoi se desfac suruburile dintre cele 2 inele de MDF. In etapa urmatoare, s-a pozitionat inelul circular pe care sta difuzorul si la sfarsit s-a facut conexiunea intre acesta si inelul de 8mm de forma oarecare. Pentru o si mai buna rigidizare, peste fibra de sticla care a facut conexiunea si pe tot spatele fetei de plastic s-a dat cu o pasta speciala de la Brax. De asemenea am ales sa adaug un burete cu celule inchise pentru a rezista si la apa peste Dynamat X-treme pe fata exterioara de tabla pentru reducerea rezonantelor incintei care erau destul de suparatoare la anumite frecvente. La sfarsit am fost nevoiti sa modificam forma butonului ce actioneaza capacul de alimentare cu combustibil si sa-l repozitionam. Au fost de asemenea refacute si incintele ce gazduiau mediile si tweetere pentru o mai buna orientare si un aspect mai placut

Materiale folosite >

- 4 straturi de Dynamat X-treme si Caliber
- 1 strat de burete cu celule inchise de 12mm
- Dynaxorb in spatele difuzorului
- Vata minerala intre fata de plastic si scheletul interior de tabla
- MDF
- Pasta Brax
- Fibra de sticla si toate cele aferente
- Piele naturala


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## mitchyz250f (May 14, 2005)

What I would like to know is the fabrication materials and process for making the a-pillars. BTW, all your work looks amazing. Did you spend much time experimenting with aiming speakers?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

- 4 layers of Dynamat X-treme & Caliber
- 1 layer of 12mm closed cell foam
- Dynaxorb behind the speaker
- Mineral wool between the plastic face and the inner skin
- MDF
- Brax X-Vibration
- Fiberglass
- Natural leather

As for the A-pillars, the process is simple. U establish the position of the MDF ring holding the speaker and u fix it to the pillar with sticks and glue. After that u strech (wrap ) fabric around the MDF ring and a-pillar for that perfect shape. U then fiberglass the fabric and finish it with either paint or leather ( or any other material of your choice ) !


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## mitchyz250f (May 14, 2005)

Thanks, 

You used real leather on the doors?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes !


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## Sephiroth619 (Jun 24, 2005)

God I love your install. How do you like the UR3 in the A pillars?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

I liked them best this way as i also tried to aim them towards the windshield or one towards the other. This way i don't miss any detail on the recording. Besides, the coherence between the tweet and the mid is almost perfect being they are aimed the same way (parralel axes) ! I wish i had the space to put the tweet on top of the mid, just like in home speakers !


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I'm in Bucharest finaly and I quite amazed at how rare (none so far) sq setups are. I've seen half dozen installs in two days and none were remotely sq oriented. I look forward to auditioning! Must be hard justifing your DRZ-9255's lack of 7" flip up panel to your peers mate he he


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Ok, auditioned fuscobal's system. It's the kind of experience that makes you think...wtf wtf and wtf. The attention to detail in the install as well as the outcome is simply beyond imaginable. The guy did his homework the stage is high, deep, stereo separation is incredible, and the detail is just amazing. There are virtualy no resonances in the door, at least none I could hear and the sub blended in perfectly without delay, overhang or boominess. 

It's hard to find a system without flaws like that...makes you salivate. Fuscobal, you should ship your car overseas and compete on an international level...well in other countries I mean, that sure was the best sq setup I've heard by a mile.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks for your kind words cvjoint. Glad u liked the system and i hope our country will join EMMA organization as soon as possible !


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Update. I just replaced the big 12W7 with a 10W6v2 wich i installed at the passenger's feet. I managed to get 20.6ltrs/0.727cuft (filled it with water). The enclosure was made out of 18mm MDF, 3 layers of fiberglass, dynamat extreme and mineral wool. Being the enclosure is a little bigger than the recommended 0.625cuft, the sub goes low enough for my tastes, not with the authority of the W7 but hits faster and more precise !


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## bobditts (Jul 19, 2006)

looks good but I would redo the carpet if it was mine.


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## slow2.2sonoma (Jul 9, 2006)

the link om the first page doesnt work for me...


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## Weightless (May 5, 2005)

me neither...I would love to see the setup.


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## drocpsu (May 3, 2005)

me neither. I was really looking forward to seeing it after all the comments.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

that looks like a behringer processor in a new case?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Ok guys, no problem. I will upload them here !


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Part II


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## epifant (Jul 26, 2005)

Thats some nice piece of work!  But then again, eastern europeans are quite known for their crafting skills, aren`t they?

The Exclusives blends really well with the suede too. "I`m lovin it"


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## drocpsu (May 3, 2005)

wow, that's really nice. Is the stock door panel still behind the newly finished one? It looks like you used it to get the angle of the midbasses right.


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## vwtoby (Oct 28, 2005)

wow!

what did you use to attach the fabic to the door in this pic?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

vwtoby said:


> wow!
> 
> what did you use to attach the fabic to the door in this pic?


Loctite 406. Curiously, although it is a well known adhesive, no one around here uses it, prefering much more complicated sollutions instead . Today I've also got the Scan-Speak 12M 4631 midrange and buil a 1L sealed enclosure for testing !  . I'll let u know the impressions !


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

Hey a fellow Loctite user thats what I used for my A pillars but most people use staple guns etc... The loctite works great only problem is your picking it off your fingers for the next couple of days. LOL


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Well, that's why chirurgical gloves were invented


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## andy12 (Aug 21, 2006)

hi fuscobal, 
i'm curious, where are the 8" midbass aiming at, did you just mount it on the custom fiber door panel? or it is mounted on the metal door. 
is your's a 2 seat setup?


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## Luke352 (Jul 24, 2006)

chirurgical what ? i've never heard of those ones. I'd use some kind of glove if they werent going to stick. Oh I should also say that I absolutely love the install looks amazing.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

I found some here that doesn't stick to the hand and are easy to work with but i forgot their name. Right midbass is like 15 degrees to the ear and left about 45 degrees ! They are mounted on an MDF ring conected to another MDF piece wich is fixed to the metal skin. The 2 MDF are making between each other the angle specified earlier and are very rigidly conected with fiberglass and Brax X-vibration ( something that hardens like concrete ) !


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## Sportsterdanne (Jul 14, 2006)

Can you open the glove box (or what its called in english?) with that angle on the right midbass ?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Nope, not really. I was aware of this problem since the beginning but the shape of the cut in the inner metal skin didn't allow for other angles/depths of the speaker !


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

Could you have mounted them a few inches back to clear the glove box?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Nope ! As i said it was the only option unfortunately. They are pretty deep !


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## JayBee (Oct 6, 2006)

That is one seriously sweet front stage. superb work.


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## CRAM V (Feb 12, 2007)

Just came across this thread, I know it's an old one, but I just recently bought a GTI, and while I was searching for some component info I came across this...started looking @ the pics and said...holy crap...that's my car!

Awesome install....really really nice job!


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

Bravo


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## Sephiroth619 (Jun 24, 2005)

Fuscobal, did you originally have the Iridium 6.3's or the 8.3's?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Iridium 6.2+ UR 2.5. In the meantime, I changed the UR's with Scans 12M and the stage is even better now. I've also found a better orientations for the tweeteers and I'm working on it. Once i'm done i will post pics !


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## Daniel4802 (Mar 1, 2007)

Did you alter that housing to fit your 1" tweeter or was it a pre-fabricated peice that you purchased to replace the factory peice? I want to fit my Seas Neos in the same spot for my vehicle and would like to either buy or make that.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

I modified the factory one !


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## Hi There (Mar 16, 2007)

fuscobal,

First off, wow...that kind of attention to detail is certainly admirable and something for me to aspire to.

Second, looking at the pictures would lead me to believe that your tweets are mounted so as to aim at the opposite listener's ear, is this correct?

You car is set up very similar to mine (from the factory at least), and your tweets are similar in size (I got a 6.5" Nobelium two-way set with similar guard/grilles attatched)...in the factory locations in my Acura TL, my passenger side has a vent running right underneath the stock tweeter location...not to mention, they are aimed straight up and rely on the windshield reflections to widen the soundstage. I anticipate problems with frequency cancellation and peaks due to this setup if I choose to mount the tweets in the factory locations. I'm still wrestling with the look of these Nobellium tweets...I mount them in the A-pillars, and I have a non-stock looking thief attractor in my daily driver. Mount them in the factory dash, and I have poor aiming (but I have heard good staging with aftermarket tweets in the stock location in the TL....good, not great). I could mount them as you have done, but are they too far toward the back of the car to offer good stage depth to the vocals (I forget, you have a 3-way setup)? Decisions, decisions...

Have you heard the Nobelliums? I auditioned them at a dealer in Florida, and was very impressed with the mids, they were really neutral and made for good male vocals, that's why I bought them. The tweets were just a little harsh, but nothing I didn't feel I could overcome with EQ. Do you (or anyone else) have any suggestions in the matter? I have the same 10w6v2 I think I saw in your setup to back them up.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Haven't listened to the nobeliums yet but I suppose they are not too different from the iridiums. I recently replaced the UR mid with Scan-Speak revelator 12M installed in the dash and aimed directly towards the windshield. My stage is beyond the car's limits even with the tweeters mounted as u say. I will post pics with the new midranges soon because now I'm working a little on a new aiming of the tweeters ! Ur and Iridiums are very good midranges for the money ( In my country they can be had for under 200$) but Scan-Speak is even better. The stage is far more precise and it goes lower being it's a cone driver. Both are pretty neutral but the scans are more laid-back !


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

As the system underwent some changes over the time I'll upload more pics :


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)




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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

Sal. omule ce mai faci? Totu arata super bine, pacat ca nu mai apuc sa trec prin Ro. in viitorul apropiat. 

We managed to get some audiophile meetings around here in Cali. too!


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## Tonyguy (Nov 15, 2007)

damn this is a sweet setup.Your front stage is amazing and i hope to have something as strong one day.


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## werner406 (Jan 8, 2008)

good job !

i did a similar subwoofer box

was does you sub box weight ?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Cvjoint let me know when u'll get to Romania and we'll meet again  . Haven't weight the sub box but it has approx. 10kg (23lbs)!


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

fuscobal said:


> Cvjoint let me know when u'll get to Romania and we'll meet again  . Haven't weight the sub box but it has approx. 10kg (23lbs)!


I think it's more probable that I'll see you around here


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## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

wow!  

upon second look....WOW!  

i wish i was your neighbor. it looks absolutely perfect.

*edit* i just read the posts where you changed the midrange. interesting. and you say it sounds even better after the change. incredible attention to detail man, kudos to you!


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks. The UR sounded very well but the revelator is even better. The main improvements were imaging and reproduction of the lower voices ! The power of the male voices is now quite good in my opinion !


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## Hi There (Mar 16, 2007)

fuscobal said:


> Cvjoint let me know when u'll get to Romania and we'll meet again  .



This is OT, but man, I wish I was back in Romania. My ship (Navy) pulled into port there for a week back in '97, and I did tours of Constanta and the mountains...what a beautiful country!! The atmosphere at that time was electric, there was change going on everywhere, and the women were unbelievable. I saw the excesses in government Ceauşescu built (massive structures, behemoth projects that went nowhere, etc.) , and the leftover bullet marks on the buildings from the revolution of '89. Really, really enjoyed myself there, and learned a lot.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Glad u liked it here. If you ever to return here let me know and maybe we'll meet. Cheers !


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I agree on the women  The best national treasure there if you ask me


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## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

fuscobal said:


> As promised, here u are : http://forum.4tuning.ro/showthread.php?t=14303&page=2


Where are you in Romania?! My wife is from Oradea and I will be in the area in and about June.


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

do you have any pictures of how you secured the fiberglass door panel to your MDF frame that you mounted to the metal door skin?

i would imagine you made a raised speaker grill that fit at the angle and depth desired, then mounted a second ring on top of this, and cut\mounted the door panel and stretched material over it so when epoxy is applied the top ring will mount flush with the mdf door frame and adhere to your fiberglass mold?

basically a picture (if you have one) with the modified door panel removed is what im asking for. i think i would have gone about it a bit different than you, flushing all my drivers with the surface they are on - but otherwise its a freaking amazing installation.

one hell of a job man. i have a 2004 markIV GTi 1.8t and i have a few things done to it... and you make me want to tear my whole interior apart and build door panels and upgrade my 8" midbass.

sigh.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm from Bucharest, about 300 miles from Oradea. Req, I think this is what U're looking for. I practically made a tunnel between the 2 MDF frames. The one that holds the driver sits on the plastic face and the other with irregular geometry sits on the metal panel. They are pretty strong connected to each other. Tunnel is made from thick fiberglass covered with Brax X-vibration and there's also foam and mineral wool on the outside of the tunnel ! No door will sound like a good home enclosure but mine it's better in controlling resonances that most I've heard with 6.5" drivers !


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

so its not permanently attached to the sheet metal on the door then? is the 'tunnel' permanently attached to the fiberglass door skin you made? if it is, how did you get it to fit in between the fiberglass panel and the sheet metal? it looks like you built a wood template that has a lip for attaching to the sheet metal, and then after you aimed your baffle and glassed your contour, you built the tunnel while the door panel was installed. im not really sure how you accomplished all while building this tunnel through that speaker hole. but im curious 

how did you secure it to the sheet metal? is it easily removed if any work has to be done to possibly the door motor or such things? and how did you relocate your hatch switch? i assume its prolly just got pressure fittings behind it or something.

like i said, i am seriously thinking about doing something like this, i hate the door pockets in my mark4 gti - i cant do any aiming with my midbass because of them. i only worry that i will not be able to find anyone who can\would stitch the leather\vynl if i did this.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Nope, it's not permanently attached. U can see the screws that tighten the whole assembly door face/tunnel to the metal panel. If u remove the driver and then the screws U can then take out the plasticfiberglass face of the door. As for the gas button, I cut the plate holding it to that rectangular shape and relocated it to the place U see now. If I recall well it was glued to the door face on the back. The hole on the face is few millimeters smaller on the perimeter of the rectangle and the thickness of that plate that hold the button is about equal to the one of the leather so they finally came to the same level !


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

alright, but how did you make the tunnel part after you made the fiberglass door panel?

you mounted the door panel with that boxy MDF frame on the sheet metal, then glassed the two together only with access to that small hole? did you just use dowels and glue to suspend the boxy frame on the sheetmetal from the rear of the door panel, then stretch material off the back?

i have a few ideas of how i would do it. im just scared other people will be kicking them more often than not  

my car is a daily driver.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Hmm, it's a little hard for me to explain in english with the proper words but here I go > On the plastic face we have 2 frames, a circular one that holds the speaker and a "1" shaped one. Between them there's the tunnel. The "1" shaped one (8mm MDF) attaches to the metal skin through a identical frame that remains on the metal skin. Now, the 2 "1" shaped frames sit where the original plastic face was (the door also had a pocket wich dissapeared ). So, the tunnel's length is about equal to the pocket of the door that disspeared (on that pocket is the original location of the gas button ). That space was filled with foam until the 2 frames that form the tunnel and after the foam became hard as a rock it was easy to fiberglass over the foam. So, the fiberglassing was done with the plastic face removed. Hope I made it clear this time  ! 

PS : This would probably be the most relevant picture for understanding while comparing it side to side with the final panel > http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1062&d=1164278031


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

i understand how you did it. i would most likely do it a little differently, but i know what you did now 

last question. how did you get the ca glue (aka loctite) and epoxy to adhere to that plastic permanently? i have had very bad experiences with glue and epoxy sticking to ABS and PVC plastics. it does not look like you prepped the surface of the door in that last picture and im not quite sure if i would trust that fiberglass surface sticking to the door panel permanently if you know what i mean.

so, what precautions did you take to make sure that the fabricated door does not detach from the plastic door panel?

thanks for your tips so far


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Bad experiences with Loctite ? That's weird. I had absolutely no need to prepare any surface before. Loctite was perfect for the job. U just have to push on the spot u used loctite for max 10 secs ! Loctite 406 that iz !


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## xtwistedx (Feb 19, 2008)

i wish i had the tools to do all that


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

fuscobol....those door panels are AMAZING!

I actually have those pics saved on my hard drive....thats the ultimate compliment from me.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Glad U like them. I will probably soon cover all the elements in Alcantara but I'm still running some tests with a tweeter !


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## $rEe (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi,

You can push the volume loud enough without having to travel too with 21?


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## $rEe (Jan 15, 2008)

Vous pouvez pousser le volume assez fort sans avoir trop de débattement avec des 21cm ?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Like any car door, mine has some problems at high levels but luckly I am not listening at high levels ! Why putting the question in 2 languages ? Any of them would have been enough !


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## $rEe (Jan 15, 2008)

fuscobal said:


> Like any car door, mine has some problems at high levels but luckly I am not listening at high levels ! Why putting the question in 2 languages ? Any of them would have been enough !


J'etais pas sure de ma traduction en anglais.


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## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

fuscobal said:


> As the system underwent some changes over the time I'll upload more pics :


i just noticed you removed most of the dash. you are an inspiration to DIY!!!!!


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## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

how did you test for dash placement? or did you just go for it?


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## Candisa (Sep 15, 2007)

Nice work!

greetz,
Isabelle


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

I just went for it since it would have been pretty difficult to test it before (tryied with a small MDF enclosure but it didn't fit between the dash and the windshield) !


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

do you have any updated pictures of the completed new mids in the dash?

beautiful install. inspiring!

side note, i visited romania in '95. beautiful country.

cheers!
- ben


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## jj_diamond (Oct 3, 2007)

fuscobal said:


> I just went for it since it would have been pretty difficult to test it before (tryied with a small MDF enclosure but it didn't fit between the dash and the windshield) !


awesome. thank you.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Ok, it's time for an update. After having listened some very good car-tweeters on my system (Focal Utopia Be or Brax Matrix), I've decided something was missing relative to home tweeters that I've listened to in some very nice speakers like Sonus Faber, Chario Academy Millenium(my speakers), Opera Callas, Wilson Puppy... When the opportunity occured I've decided to try the Scan-Speak D2904/710002. What followed can be seen in my signiature  . I was immediately blown away by the linearity, top end sparkle, detail, air/space and ambiance. I've heard no car tweeter to compare with theese although I've listened to most expensive ones !


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## James Bang (Jul 25, 2007)

Great stuff. I really like the install and I bet it sounds great. I see Romanians do it big in car audio (cvjoint ).


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Very interesting fact. About 2 weekes ago, I've changed my cheap very thin cables with the most expensive cable from Aurix and the sound changed considerably for worse. I had to switch back to my cheap cable and everything is back to normal now !


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## AdrianD (Aug 13, 2008)

Will I get to hear your car in the EMMA finals at Cluj ?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't know for sure !


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## roque (Aug 20, 2008)

Awesome!


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## khanhfat (Feb 4, 2008)

sick install, lucky i move over this thread when i was searching for hatch back install for my friend  nice set of VRX even though theh ones i want is out of my budget.


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## lyttleviet (Sep 11, 2008)

That door panel is just freakn SICK.


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## backotruck (Jul 18, 2008)

Swizeeete:blush:


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Update : I've just replaced the Peerless midbasses with 2 Brax Matrix 6.1 midbasses per door. Peerless was tonally a very good driver but lacked some speed in my doors. In order to accomodate the new drivers I had to rework my door. Here are the results :


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## MaXaZoR (Apr 1, 2007)

Nice! Any Build pictures?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Soon I'll update with the build pictures for the doors and the roof/pillars alcantara dressing


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## Mixagolf1 (Feb 17, 2009)

fuscobal said:


>


That's looks awesome! Looks much better than previous edition for me.

But what's that:







???


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

That would be the magical midbass driver custom made by Nelson Pass using 2 drivers by nuclear fusion. That pic was suppose to be top secret...now I'll have to kill ya !


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## Mixagolf1 (Feb 17, 2009)

fuscobal said:


> That would be the magical midbass driver custom made by Nelson Pass using 2 drivers by nuclear fusion. That pic was suppose to be top secret...now I'll have to kill ya !


Ha! First try to catch me! :tongue2:


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Already know the country, now I have to think of a bomb to follow your nickname !


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Ok guys, latest update. It seems I found a pair of drivers even better than the Brax. These would be the the Micro Precision 7 series. With a MMS of under 10g and Qts of 0.73 they are incredibly fast. Although the Brax have a little more authority in the 50Hz area, the resolution of the Micro in 100Hz-300Hz area is absolutely stunning. I now have to cut off the sub at 31.5Hz (instead of 50Hz like I did with the Peerless) in order to keep up with the midbasses. I will also soon increase the volume of the enclosure for the 10W6 to about 40L (this would be a little difficult knowing the sub is mounted in the front). Here are some pics of the initial install. No pics with the Micro Precision yet since I haven't adapted the grilles yet >


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Some more pics :


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## providius (Nov 1, 2008)

only my opinion ,but this is by far the best sounding car in ROMANIA,can't wait till the next time will met to hear it again with the new speakers,and the install.....it speaks for itself,you have a dream car fuscobal


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks Providius. Didn't think of a video yet but will make a HD one !

PS : Why didn't you come today in Bucharest at the national championship ? I've judged several good sounding cars !


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

awesome job on the doors


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## providius (Nov 1, 2008)

sorry,itt was anounced too late,and i'm working saturday nights lately,itt is dificult for me knowing monday that a championship is starting saturday to find someoane to replace me at my work,my car improved a little bit on tweets(i followed youre advice and i now have a mirror to mirror stage in my car),i'm working on mids(fiberglass is done,new position is much better now,sound's more deeper),i got my kick last week.i'm hoping to see you guys in one or two months with my car in a better shape than last time,all the best from oradea city


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## $rEe (Jan 15, 2008)

Salut Fuscobal,

Par rapport aux HDS8 ça donne quoi ? (a part la rapidité que tu as certainement gagné vu que tu es repassé en18cm)


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## $rEe (Jan 15, 2008)

Double post,


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## rkb993 (Apr 10, 2009)

Nice looking work!


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

2 parleurs 16.5cm contre 1 parleur 22.5cm. La resolution sur le mid-bass est phenomenale. Ces Micro-Precision ont une masse mouvante de seulement 9g. La seule probleme maintenant est que le sub doit etre coupe a 31.5Hz pour ne pas rester deriere les 2 mid-bass. Je vais modifier l'enceinte du sub de 20 a 40litres pour gagner de la vitesse sur les basses ! Conclusion :

- Micro-Precision 7 vs Brax Matrix > Les micros sont plus resolutives et le detail dans la zone 100-300Hz est mieux que toutes les parleurs que j'ai entendu jusqu'aujourd'hui. Les Brax ont plus d'attaque dans la zone 50-60Hz mais il semblent plus difficile a focaliser dans le centre du mon parebrise
- Micro-Precision 7 vs Peerless HDS8" > il n'y'a aucune comparaison ici. Les micro gagnent de toutes points des vues moins la frequence auquelle ils descendent. Ici, Peerless va tres bas, pres du point ou on n'a pas besoin d'un sub. Les Micro perdent leur attaque au dessous de 60-70Hz mais avec un sub tres rapide, la quantite d'information reproduite est fantastique !


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## $rEe (Jan 15, 2008)

Merci pour ce petit comparatif


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## Mixagolf1 (Feb 17, 2009)

stinky06 said:


> awesome job on the doors


x2


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Ok, I've managed to squeeze 36L after modifying the enclosure for the sub. Next week we will have a tough battle between 3 high-end subwoofers. The contenders :

1) JL Audio 10W6v2 (the one I have now) > approx. 300 Euro
2) Brax Matrix 10.1 > approx. 600 Euro
3) Micro Precision Z260 > approx 850 Euro

Of course the winner gets to stay


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## SkodaTeam (Feb 26, 2009)

fuscobal said:


> Ok, I've managed to squeeze 36L after modifying the enclosure for the sub. Next week we will have a tough battle between 3 high-end subwoofers. The contenders :
> 
> 1) JL Audio 10W6v2 (the one I have now) > approx. 300 Euro
> 2) Brax Matrix 10.1 > approx. 600 Euro
> ...



I like your way of upgrading the system  My favourite project, keep up the good work neighbour


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks, I'll keep you updated on the results


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## $rEe (Jan 15, 2008)

Je ne connais pas les sub Brax mais le Z260 est une tuerie.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

$rEe said:


> Je ne connais pas les sub Brax mais le Z260 est une tuerie.


Si tu peux detailler un peu sur le Z260...


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## $rEe (Jan 15, 2008)

Salut,

D'apres se que je me rappel car ça fait un petit moment que je l'ai entendu, 
il a une tres bonne rapidité d'exectution, il sait tres bien descendre tout en etant sec et propre.
Il a aussi une tres bonne assise tout en sachant se fondre avec le reste.

Desolé mais je suis pas tres bon pour expliquer mes rescentis.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Z260 burning in for several days !


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

i have to say, that i am overwhelmed at how ambitious you are with your stereo. i would love to hear it. it seems you have quite a large budget.

may i ask what your profession is (if you do not mind)... i am just curious.

your skills are unbelievable. i cant imagine i would want to tear down my entire door to put a new speaker (or pair of them) in when i had just finished my previous one, you have outdone your self!!!

now show us some build pictures!!!

*applaud*

my install (in my signature) is, sadly, as good as a bone stock system compared to yours.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks for your kind words, req. Some build pics can be found in posts 119 and 120 on page 5. I will also add the build pics with the new subwoofer enclosure but in order to finish it I first need to know wich sub will stay


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## SkodaTeam (Feb 26, 2009)

fuscobal said:


> Ok, I've managed to squeeze 36L after modifying the enclosure for the sub. Next week we will have a tough battle between 3 high-end subwoofers. The contenders :
> 
> 1) JL Audio 10W6v2 (the one I have now) > approx. 300 Euro
> 2) Brax Matrix 10.1 > approx. 600 Euro
> ...


fuscobal, did you hear Morel Ultimo 12 and Iridium 12, 2 of my favourites subs? What is your opinion about them. I'm just courius  Or my high ends are not so high


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes, I've heard both but I find Brax 10.1 and Micro Z260 to be in another league. I still have to listen to the Z260 for several days but until now, my old JL 10W6 gets kicked pretty bad by the Brax and Micro !


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

would you care to explain what you are listening for (in particular, relate it to something like the IASCA CD) when you are auditioning a speaker?

for example (just making this up now), on track number x on the IASCA CD, i notice the bass guitar around 36 seconds has great transient response and is distinguishable from the notes on the drums at the same time with subwoofer y, but with subwoofer z, it sounds more blended and muddy.

something i can put in my stereo and have a listen so i can understand what you are critiquing in particular? unfortunately i dont have people such as yourself whom i can sit with and learn things if you know what i mean.

i dont mean to hijack your thread, just curious how you can compare $X,XXX drivers versus $XXX driver if you understand me. is there not some point where the performance difference between two speakers is not worth the cost differential? 

thanks!


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

I listen to various music and generally make my own selections. Although I've participated to several EMMA competitions, I've never used their CD or Iasca one to tune the car but used real music instead. I'm listening to music from 80's, classical, jazz, pop...When I'll make the review of the 3 subs, I will specify the tracks if you like. Another reference would be my home headphone system wich makes very easy spotting the weak points of my car system !


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Hello boyz and gals. It's time for a review of the 3 contenders :

My old JL 10W6v2 served me well for the last 4 years but 2 contenders appeared at the horizon and I had to give them a chance. After 1 week spent with each of them I consider they were properly burned in and I also got to listen to my entire collection. I am pretty confident in the result being I've listened to all of them in the same system (soruce, amps, enclosure, cables...). The enclosure is a sealed one measuring about 36ltrs (1.27cuft) mounted at the passenger's feet. The enclosure had no damping at all as I found they sounded better this way ( strange but true). I've used the same settings for all 3 while only matching the levels. I've played with different cutting points/slope but they all sounded best with [email protected]/oct. Cutting the sub any higher, as many would do, brought an unnatural emphasis on male voices while the very low sub-bass became masked by the upper bass. Using this point/slope made the sub-bass - mid-bass relationship very happy to my ear. Now, it would be pretty hard for me to name the exact + and - for each sub on each recording as I've listened to hundreds of songs (to name a few > Dire Straits, Alison Krauss, Ana Caram, Sara K, Depeche Mode, Sting, Santana, Buena Vista Social Club, Bee Gees, Gerry Rafferty, Patricia Barber, Dance of the 80's, records from Stockfish, Reference recordings, Usher, Naim, Linn, Opus 3, Chesky...). I will instead give them marks for what I consider to be the most important on a subwoofer. Here we are :

Macrodynamics/impact/slam :

JL Audio 10W6v2 > 6
Brax Matrix 10.1 > 9
Microprecision Z260 > 7.5

Microdynamics/resolution :

JL Audio 10W6v2 > 5
Brax Matrix 10.1 > 8
Microprecision Z260 > 9

Low frequency extension :

JL Audio 10W6v2 > 7
Brax Matrix 10.1 > 8.5
Microprecision Z260 > 8.5

Blending with mid-bass :

JL Audio 10W6v2 > 7
Brax Matrix 10.1 > 9
Microprecision Z260 > 8

Notes :

1) It would be pretty much impossible for a 10" sub to get 10 at low frequency extension. This mark is reserved for much larger subwoofers. Still, I can very happily trade of the low end extension of large subwoofers for the speed of smaller ones lime 10". Having 2 subs (a smaller one in front and a bigger one in the trunk cut very low could be an option).
2) It would be pretty difficult for a sub or speaker of any kind to get 10 at macro/microdynamics knowing I'm used to the speed of my headphones. Until now, coming really close to my headphones would be the 2 Microprecision mid-bass drivers in the doors.
3) It would be pretty difficult for a system composed of drivers placed all over the car at different distances and with different orientations to the ear to get to the coherence of expensive home systems composed of speakers wich have all drivers perfectly aligned and no processing/time-alignment.


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## SkodaTeam (Feb 26, 2009)

So, Brax is the winner?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

For me, yes...Brax is the winner. Now I only have to finish that enclosure


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## fenis (Apr 12, 2008)

Any more updates? I totally love your door panels and will use your install as inspiration for my install


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

These are the doors but with Micro Precision 7's instead of Brax. The sub area is also covered by a custom mat but I will make some newer pics to include that !


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## fenis (Apr 12, 2008)

Fuscobal did you build a sealed midbass enclosure or do they vent into the door cavity like they did with the peerless woofers?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

They vent into the door and the Microprecision drivers are specifically built for that !


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

That crossover at 31.5hz is really bizzare, especially with a steep slope like that. You are practically using your crossover to make some drastic changes in the FR. It's possible that you prefer to listen to an exaggerated low end as in a F-M curve. You could achieve a similar result using a deep cut at say 60hz with a wide Q. Depending on how your lev3els are set it could also be that you simply don't like bass


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Have you listened to my car cvjoint in this configuration ? I can assure you the subbass is perfectly leveled with the other frequencies to my ear. I don't like too much bass but not too little either. Unfortunately, frequencies, slopes, levels...can be used only as a starting point but the ear remains the ultimate meter for a nice spectral balance. I tried the same settings (cutting points, slopes, levels) on a car with the same system but 2 CD-players (one after the other) and guess what : they sounded completely different. Paper values and RTA adjustements don't really matter much for me ! My only refferences are my 2 home stereo systems and my headphone system !


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## providius (Nov 1, 2008)

hy guys,George you know i like bass,and i have heard this car last year in this configuration,but i know it is better set up today,and believe me for i was very impressed at high volumes(Fuscobal knows i listen to music at high levels and he helped me out there  )and i could not believe that bass that he had,almost enough for my ears,not to talk about the rest,congratulations Fuscobal,i hope for the chance to listen your at least one time this year,greetings


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks for the kind words providius. Whenever you're in Bucharest, let me know and we can meet. The sub-bass and mid-bass are the strongest points in my opinion now. What the car would need is faster mid-range and more refinement of the midrange and treble. In this respect, I will have to try better amps than Audison VRX and and better source than Clarion DRZ. Improvements from now on are very small and cost an arm and a leg. Unfortunately, I don't think I will see too soon a car-audio source to match the richness and fine nuances of my home cd-player. For the amps, I will sometime try the Brax Matrix X4 amp !


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## Brian_smith06 (Jan 31, 2008)

Sexy work on those doors. That is exactly how I would like to do mine


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

I might not make it back to the home country for a few years. I'm sure the car sounds great, it sounded good when I heard it back well...years ago  I was just saying that a crossover like that is very odd. Maybe a bottom heavy sub would be the way to go, like the new SI MKiii or some of the XBL designs, fixing the problem from the get go. If that doesn't get enough bottom end then the eq. setting I brought up should be a second step assuming the box design has to stay fixed. Then you can use the crossover the way most folks use it to blend in drivers. 

I only use my ears lightly in design. If it satisfies you the way it is than that's the way to go. The scientific approach is much harder to master and $$$.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

The bRax sub I'm using now is faster and also goes lower in frequency than JL 10W6 that I had (the one that u listened back there). Also, when you listened to the car, the enclosure had 20ltrs, now it has 36ltrs. The very steep slope used there might be because of the Clarion DRZ I'm using since it seems the sub low-pass of the unit is not very effective and lets midrange frequencies pass. It is something specific to my car/system, I didn't meet it in other systems/cars ! Now, about the scientific way, what does it tell you in terms of cross frecuency/slope for my particular sub/enclosure type/volume ?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

You'll find that with high quality subwoofers there is lots of midrange material. This is generally due to the use of shorting rings. It allows the driver to extend very high up. That's a very good thing generally, more so in home audio where they often use high LP filters. 

What do you want to know about your setup? I can model it quickly. It will be without cabin gain unless you tested your cabin before. There are also some graphs on the forum with cabin gain for lots of cars.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

In large home audio speakers the bass drivers genarally use high cutting points but it's a totally different environment. My Usher Be-10 speakers wich use ETON 11" bass drivers use a 550Hz cutting point for these drivers. Inside a car, I've never seen subwoofers with cutting points bigger than 80Hz to sound good. I've tried with JL 10W6, Brax 10.1 and Microprecision Z260 (don't think there are many drivers better than these on the planet) and believe me, no matter what the science says, they all started to sound boomy, lose speed and become directional !


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

Have heard the Brax 10.1 and it is IMO the best sub if you want to use it sealed. Plays "flat" in the recommended enclosure due to cabin gain. 
However there are a few subs that are better, but it won't be in a sealed alignment  

Phase Linear Aliante 12 Ltd (now Mac Audio) in a 56L ported (don't remember the tuning) is actually as tight as the Brax - hard to believe but it really is that impressive. 
Alto Falstaff 12 in 40L ported, same as ^above^ 
Morel Ultimo 12 in an Aperiodic enclosure (listened to it in Don's Merc), really is lightning fast decay and transparent. Just loved it's integration with his midbasses (Phass 6.5") 

Feel those are at least in the top 20 for best SQ subs in the history. 
Kelvin


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Haven't heard the Alto and Morel but didn't like the Phase aliante although I've heard it on several different cars. Maybe they weren't installed properly but they had the same sonic signiature. They were quite fast indeed but they lacked musicality and they did not sound like real life instruments. 56ltrs ported is impossible for me in my car if I want to keep the sub in the front. On the other hand, I haven't heard a single car with the sub in the trunk to have a perfect match between the midbass and the sub and I've listened to the best in Europe. No matter how good the time alignment is or how low the cutting point, I can always tell if the sub-bass is coming from the rear !


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## SkodaTeam (Feb 26, 2009)

fuscobal, i would love hear your car, and mayby after the winter if you have 1-2 hours free i can come to Bucuresti  Only 70km for me.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

No prob, just let me know when you'd like to come !


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

fuscobal said:


> Haven't heard the Alto and Morel but didn't like the Phase aliante although I've heard it on several different cars. Maybe they weren't installed properly but they had the same sonic signiature. They were quite fast indeed but they lacked musicality and they did not sound like real life instruments. 56ltrs ported is impossible for me in my car if I want to keep the sub in the front. On the other hand, I haven't heard a single car with the sub in the trunk to have a perfect match between the midbass and the sub and I've listened to the best in Europe. No matter how good the time alignment is or how low the cutting point, I can always tell if the sub-bass is coming from the rear !


Was wondering if you have heard a trunk mounted sub that was musical? 

Kelvin


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Nope !


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Very nice setup there. Blast from the past as well. Guess that's some good use of the passenger-side foot well.


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

Actually the comfort of the passenger isn't that bad if you push the chair back !


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## JulioVAG (Jan 9, 2011)

Wonderful, congratulations!


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

I have finally succeded installing the new Sinfoni amplifiers. To my surprise, the sound was similar to the VRX on mids and highs but faster and more precise on midbass and sub. It's a double success : better sound and much lower weight. the 3 VRX amps + 2 MDF boards had 40Kg and the 4 Sinfonis + aluminium mounts have only 15Kg ! I have yet to setup the new system after the holydays but it looks promising !




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## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

Looks very good!


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

The aluminum racks have the added benefit of increased heatsinking. Looks good. How much power do the Sinfoni put out?


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## cvjoint (Mar 10, 2006)

The aluminum racks have the added benefit of increased heatsinking. Looks good. How much power do the Sinfoni put out?


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## fuscobal (Mar 27, 2006)

For the andante going to the sub it would be > MONO 2 Ω @ 14,4 V 455 W X1 

For the andante going to the midbasses would be > 2 Ω @ 14,4 V 165 W X2 

For the allegros going to the mids and highs > 4 Ω @ 14,4 V 95W X2

Kept the 4 Sinfonis on the car for only about 2 months and then removed the entire audio system from the car to lower the weight even further. Got rid of 33kgs and now the car is used as a track only vehicle. The 4 amps and the Brax sub are still on my garage, wasting themselves for about 1 year  Although I bought a Polo GTI as a daily drive, didn't install them here yet. Might let the sub and one of the andantes go and install a 3-way Micro-Precision system powered by the other 3 Sinfonis !


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