# Project Pro5



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

This is the latest in my forever changing install. My car really is about 85% done, so the A pillars and custom kicks are pretty much all that is left. 

My goal is to run a complete Seas Lotus Reference 4-way active set up. I currently have all the necessary elements besides the sub. Once completed, I plan to dominate at World Finals in 2099...because at the rate I'm going, I will have a pretty good idea of what a bonified SQ should sound like by then!!  

My idea is to mount the tweeters to the A pillar frame as shown and then either A) cut a hole for them to fire through and then cover it with grill cloth or B) cut a larger shaped hole and then completely wrap the pillar in grill cloth. 

Option A would result in the less stealthy install and option B would be completely stealth, but I would more or less be limited to changing the color of the pillars to the color of the grill cloth. Option B would allow me to tweak the aiming of the tweeters later if I need to. 

Which do you think would be a better option??


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Here are the before pictures from a while ago:


















Random pics of the future World Champ


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## jearhart (Jul 28, 2006)

i like option B, better tuneability and more stealth. makes me want to do that in my car. but my frontstage is as far from stealth as you can get, so the tweets would be out of place.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

jearhart said:


> i like option B, better tuneability and more stealth. makes me want to do that in my car. but my frontstage is as far from stealth as you can get, so the tweets would be out of place.


I think so too.

Anyone have recommentations on the type and place to buy grill cloth? I've never used it before.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

damn you're lucky that the lotus tweets fit nicely in your pillars. i had to extrude my tweets out in my pillar install because i didn't have a lick of room behind it. i would also do option b. 

i will meet you at finals next year .


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

alphakenny1 said:


> damn you're lucky that the lotus tweets fit nicely in your pillars. i had to extrude my tweets out in my pillar install because i didn't have a lick of room behind it. i would also do option b.
> 
> i will meet you at finals next year .


Yes, I'm thankful for the reinforcement bar thing Mazda put in there. I didn't take any measurements actualy, but they appear to fit just fine. Gotta love backstrap!!

I guess the ultimate test when it's all said and done will be to have someone sit in my car and not know where the drivers are. I yearn for the day actually. I hate hearing my speakers.  

I will see you there....my honorary Co-Captain!  I hope people know I'm totaly kidding about that. :blush:


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Good luck meng. After this weekend all I'll have left to do is my a-pillars, and I have a tweet that unfortunatly wont sit flush on my a pillars and will be more like alphakenny's style. I may be tempted to paint over my plats grill with a flat black and vynil wrap my apillars to match my dash to keep them from sticking out like a sore thumb. Decisions, decisions.


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## jearhart (Jul 28, 2006)

3.5max6spd said:


> I may be tempted to paint over my plats grill with a flat black


that would make the baby jesus cry. j/k but i would have to think about that for a while befor i painted a $400 tweeter.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

my vote

http://www.objext.com/semi/Civic/tweet


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> my vote
> 
> http://www.objext.com/semi/Civic/tweet


I see it, I see it!! 

Is that your car??

What material on the pillar??


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## zfactor (Oct 19, 2005)

looks like grill cloth... super simple old idea we have used a bunch of times. cut out a larger hole in the piller than really needed so as to not cover any of the tweeter up then rewrap the whole pillar in matching grill cloth.. personally id prefer them glassed in re-wrapped in oem vinyl or re-textured and dyed to match myself... but then the aiming needs to be right the first time. and then if you decide to change the tweeter later it becomes hard to do,.. im going a pillar this time instead of sail panels i was using prior...


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Ok, so I'm pretty much set on mounting the tweets to the frame and then having them fire throug the A piller panels. But I would like to get the tweeters up another 3" because the driver's side is blasting away at the domed part of the dash causing all kinds of nasties. So I thought of two options to remedy that:
1) Dashmat.
2) Remove the reinforcement bar things. At least that's what I think they are?? The pillars actually attach to the frame of the car and not to bar, so no problem there. I guess I'm concerned that doing so would comprimise the safety of the vehicle? 

What cha think?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

My doors have been buzzing like crazy lately and it has been driving me nuts. It turns out that the midbass's have been hitting the door panel...especially when they really start moving. So I had to put and end to that!

I took out the MDF baffles that have been in there for 2 years to see what was up. As I suspected, they have split out, sucked up some moisture and have swelled to almost a full inch!

Look at this POS! 

















Since I needed something thinner and didn't want to put MDF back in, I took the suggestion of a member on another forum and tryed HDPE (high density polyethlyene). HDPE is used in a lot of plasic manufacturing, but the cheapest way to get it (that I found) was to get an el cheapo cutting board.

I looked at a few places including a local surplus store. All they had was 3/4" HDPC. Too thick. I was shooting for 1/2" or even 3/8" if I could find it. I finally found what I was looking for at TJ Max for $5. It's 12x15x3/8"...enough for two baffles. 


















A good 1/4" layer of non-hardening modeling clay on the back.









A single layer of peal n seal on the front. 









The finished product. The driver now sits a good 3/4" back from the panel and still has plenty of room behind. 









Took a quick listen to some bass heavy songs and no more buzz.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

those speakers are whack.


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## strong*I*bumpin (Oct 3, 2005)

Those mounting holes look like a pain in the arse,good idea putting the deadener on the back of the baffle.I found out the same way u did,it didn't look pretty.


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

wow looks like you used your teeth to make those first set of baffles......i agree with the pos!


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

strong*I*bumpin said:


> Those mounting holes look like a pain in the arse,good idea putting the deadener on the back of the baffle.I found out the same way u did,it didn't look pretty.


I used the old baffle as a template...and the holes lined up almost exactly. I didn't have counter sink bits, so I had to use two different bits. Worked out just fine though.

Now the pain in the ass is mounting the Lotus mids!! I did pre drill the holes on the baffle so that they line up, but if you over torque the screws they will start to move away from the speaker because there are no holes to hold them in place. Pan heads are a must. Friggen Norwegian engineers.  The good thing I found out was that the HDPE holds the screws a lot better than MDF.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

unpredictableacts said:


> wow looks like you used your teeth to make those first set of baffles......i agree with the pos!


Yea I really don't know what happened. I guess having multiple drivers in and out all the time just ruined it. They just kind of disintegrated on me. Maybe it's because MDF is no match for the raw power of Seas?


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Perhaps using T-nuts for your drivers would work better next time...and spray them with some cheap spray paint to seal them.

Oh, and for the a-pillars, I just took a heat-gun to mine and slowly stretched the plastic until my DLS tweeters would fit flush. I've got the photos somewhere but I think you've already seen them.


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

I've seen that happen to MDF 1000 times. That's why if I use MDF, I seal it with spray on truck bed liner. Or I use an alternate material that won't die when it gets wet, like ply. I like the idea of the plastic too. I'll have to look into that in the future. Good heads up!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

unpredictableacts said:


> wow looks like you used your teeth to make those first set of baffles......i agree with the pos!



You owe me a new keyboard..... Preferably one without java all over it via my nose  

Chad


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## unpredictableacts (Aug 16, 2006)

chad said:


> You owe me a new keyboard..... Preferably one without java all over it via my nose
> 
> Chad


lol.....and e-sorry goes to your good sir.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> Perhaps using T-nuts for your drivers would work better next time...and spray them with some cheap spray paint to seal them.
> 
> Oh, and for the a-pillars, I just took a heat-gun to mine and slowly stretched the plastic until my DLS tweeters would fit flush. I've got the photos somewhere but I think you've already seen them.


Thanks...but it was a nice day and I had a few hours so I just basically did what I could. Will do t-nuts next time. 

Saw your pics, yes. I'm not going to flush mount them, rather mount them to the frame instead.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

DaveRulz said:


> I've seen that happen to MDF 1000 times. That's why if I use MDF, I seal it with spray on truck bed liner. Or I use an alternate material that won't die when it gets wet, like ply. I like the idea of the plastic too. I'll have to look into that in the future. Good heads up!


More my fault than MDF. Works great, but not when you are lazy and don't predrill holes and use a bunch of random screws you have laying around. Definitely nothing I would do if I was a pro installer. I did have quite a bit of Sludge and mat on them, but it didn't protect them. You can see how many screw holes are in the thing. Swiss cheese baffles anyone?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Believe the hype: 









Thanks 6spd....she's so purdy.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

eh....alpine owns all. 

now get to fiberglassing....finals is coming up soon http://www.elitecaraudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=136764.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

alphakenny1 said:


> eh....alpine owns all.
> 
> now get to fiberglassing....finals is coming up soon http://www.elitecaraudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=136764.


Yea I kinda threw up in my mouth when I saw Directed Electronics on the box. But I can't worry about that right now, I have a day or so to get to finals. Ummmm where is it again??


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## edwelly (Mar 29, 2006)

B- doesn't your Kicker amps do all of the processing stuff already? If so, why the PPI device?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

edwelly said:


> B- doesn't your Kicker amps do all of the processing stuff already? If so, why the PPI device?


1) Better x-over
2) Time alignment
3) Less amps needed. My rack is built to spec for a DLS amps. I might eventually go back to them just to keep it clean. 
4) A $800 processor for $165 is too good to pass up IMO. Who knows though, this thing could be a giant POS!! It's Directed....my expectations are set low on purpose here.  

The drawbacks are that I will lose the 5th and 6th order slopes and the phase control for each channel. That is an awesome feature. 

The future awaits. Depending on the weather, I might be able to try it out tomorrow.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

plus now he'll be able to fully control his 4 way active. he'll use a combo of both his hu and ppi to time align his speakers. or least i'm assuming he will.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

alphakenny1 said:


> plus now he'll be able to fully control his 4 way active. he'll use a combo of both his hu and ppi to time align his speakers. or least i'm assuming he will.


Yep. As I have it set up now, I'm using a combo of the HU xovers and the DSP. For convenience, I use the HU to HP the tweeter and LP the midrange. Then I all pass the Low output on the HU and run the midbasses from 70-300hz using the DSP. Since the Low is passed, I use that signal from the midbass amp for the sub. I then LP the sub with the DSP. 

So, I have full T/A w/ attenuation, 1/3 oct x-overs, 6-24db/oct slope and 5 bands of EQ on 6 active channels (tweets, mids, and midbass) with the HU, and phase, gain, 1/12 oct x-overs, 6-36db/oct (6-48 on sub), 1 band of parametric EQ per channel with the DSP. 

Because I run the sub off the Low, any T/A on the midbasses also affects the sub. That is the one drawback. Hope that at least made some sense??


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## Dalius (Aug 22, 2006)

If you don't mind me going back to the speaker mounting ring subject. Could you not have put a liquid coating on the mdf that could protect it from water? Also, how did it get that much water within your car to do that...or Im guessing that it doesn't take a whole lot to damage mdf? Im just asking because Im trying to debate how I will make my own.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Dalius said:


> If you don't mind me going back to the speaker mounting ring subject. Could you not have put a liquid coating on the mdf that could protect it from water? Also, how did it get that much water within your car to do that...or Im guessing that it doesn't take a whole lot to damage mdf? Im just asking because Im trying to debate how I will make my own.


Well I live in MN and the weather can fluctuate from 90* hot and humid to 20* below cold and dry. Combine that with the fact that a) I didn't pretreat or seal the baffle b) I didn't predrill the screw holes c) Used the wrong type of screws that chewed and split the wood d) Had drivers in and out of it over a few years....led to what you see. I did coat the baffle with SS Sludge, but it just coated IN the damage. So it wasn't necessarily water....eventhough I think it did suck up some moisture along the way due to the wood spliting out over time...as much as it was user abuse/error. 

MDF is a great material because it is pretty cheap and it's the right density. I chose the HDPE route because it was cheaper, thinner, denser, and more durable over time. Also with the Lotus mids not having any mounting holes, I need to use pan heads that sit firm and flush. I did try the appropriate screws for MDF (not sure what they are called) but they have a beveled head that doesn't work well with holding the mid in place. 

So I would say if you have an old cutting board or you can find some dense plastic (I think HDPC would work too...I saw some for $3 for about 4 ft^2 at my local surplus store, but it was 3/4") give it a try. No need to seal it. The screws will hold better....especially if you don't want to spend $$ on T-nuts and do it the right way (ie you are a lazy ass and just want to get the effin mids in the doors already!!!). If you do go this route, make sure you deaden/dampen the baffle well (don't use cheap-o peal n seal) because it is easier to resonate than MDF....or so it seams so far. Non-hardening modeling clay between the baffle and the door as well as packed around the baffle is a must for me due to the environment. When it's cold, EVERYTHING buzzes...no mater how dead any surface is.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> Ok, so I'm pretty much set on mounting the tweets to the frame and then having them fire throug the A piller panels. But I would like to get the tweeters up another 3" because the driver's side is blasting away at the domed part of the dash causing all kinds of nasties. So I thought of two options to remedy that:
> 1) Dashmat.
> 2) Remove the reinforcement bar things. At least that's what I think they are?? The pillars actually attach to the frame of the car and not to bar, so no problem there. I guess I'm concerned that doing so would comprimise the safety of the vehicle?
> 
> What cha think?


dashmat is essential anyways. I still have reflections very difficult to equalize, and my tweeters are high enough on the pillars to clear the dash hump. very very annoying. Leon suggests that some cars are more suceptible to dashboard reflections than others. I still recommend a dashmat no matter what. no matter what. And if you can add some foam under it to enhance the absorptive properties, even better.

whether you remove the struts or not is up to you. I had no qualms cutting metal out of the doors, cutting up the kickpanels, drilling holes in the floors, trunk lid, engine bay, etc. When it came to the a-pillars, I dunno. I didnt want to put so much as a screwhole in it. No idea why. The tweeters are mounted on backstrapping thats JBwelded then sheet sound deadened into place, not so much as a single unstock hole. Took forever to find a tweeter I liked that was shallow enough to fit behind the stock panel in the stock position. 

funny how things work.

as to surface mounting versus hidden, I prefer to look as "stock" *as possible*; hiding the tweets behind the a-pillar was the ONLY way to go. Looking "fancy", or "professionally modified", or "custom" if you use that as a buzzword, a surface mounted tweeter mounted on a modified a-pillar rewrapped in vinyl in many ways looks far far superior to hiding the tweets behind grillecloth. when its done well, I LOVE the look. but it doesnt matter how fancy or how well you externally mount the tweets on the pillars, it doesnt look "stock". plenty of stock cars out there with a grillecloth covered pillar style though!


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> dashmat is essential anyways. I still have reflections very difficult to equalize, and my tweeters are high enough on the pillars to clear the dash hump. very very annoying. Leon suggests that some cars are more suceptible to dashboard reflections than others. I still recommend a dashmat no matter what. no matter what. And if you can add some foam under it to enhance the absorptive properties, even better.
> 
> whether you remove the struts or not is up to you. I had no qualms cutting metal out of the doors, cutting up the kickpanels, drilling holes in the floors, trunk lid, engine bay, etc. When it came to the a-pillars, I dunno. I didnt want to put so much as a screwhole in it. No idea why. The tweeters are mounted on backstrapping thats JBwelded then sheet sound deadened into place, not so much as a single unstock hole. Took forever to find a tweeter I liked that was shallow enough to fit behind the stock panel in the stock position.
> 
> ...


Good points. Thanks!

Which dash mat do you recommend for a nice fit and finish. I can get the Dashmat brand off ebay for like $35 shipped. Seems cheap. Any other options?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Some pics of the new set up. I put the PPI control unit in the open pocket underneath the coin tray. I fits pretty nicely there, but have to really lean forward to set it. The display on the unit is not that great....the contrast between the blue and black is not strong enough so I have to kind of squint to see it.









Pretty close color match with the cool blue on the 8053.









A pair of Eclipse XA4000's. They fit perfectly on top of the rack. I was quite happy about that. What kind of sucks is that the logo is on backwards for my application. Oh well. They are very nice looking and well built amps. They use that ICE Tech feedback control circut thingy. They are full range Class D's. What I end up with is 125 watts rms to the tweets, midranges, and midbasses, and 350 watts rms to the sub. 

















A review on the Eclipse amps to come.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

like i said, i like it a lot! clean, simple.


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> Which dash mat do you recommend for a nice fit and finish. I can get the Dashmat brand off ebay for like $35 shipped. Seems cheap. Any other options?


$35 from eBay? No, no. Look at GoDashMat.com. Inexpensive (bet it's equal or less vs. eBay), manufacturer direct, and a handfull of options. If you like the tight carpet look, I'd recommend the UltiMat. A good alternative is the Signature Series which is a faux suede fabric. I ordered one for my vehicle and I gotta say, it looks pretty good considering I've never thought much about such products.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

BodegaBay said:


> $35 from eBay? No, no. Look at GoDashMat.com. Inexpensive (bet it's equal or less vs. eBay), manufacturer direct, and a handfull of options. If you like the tight carpet look, I'd recommend the UltiMat. A good alternative is the Signature Series which is a faux suede fabric. I ordered one for my vehicle and I gotta say, it looks pretty good considering I've never thought much about such products.


No UltiMat available for my vehicle.  

I think I'm going to try the Signature Series though. Did you notice a significant difference in calming reflections with the Sig Series??


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

To be honest B-Squad, I've yet to try it since I'm just building my A-pillar pods. But I did purchase a Signature unit to try it out. I still think the Sig has a much better material; IMO, synthetic suede is better than carpet of the Ultimate.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

BodegaBay said:


> To be honest B-Squad, I've yet to try it since I'm just building my A-pillar pods. But I did purchase a Signature unit to try it out. I still think the Sig has a much better material; IMO, synthetic suede is better than carpet of the Ultimate.


Ok, cool. I ordered the Sig....so I'll let you know how it works out.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

I've been pleasently surprised by the capability of these amps so far. I used to run another Eclipse Class D on my front stage (DA6213) so it's not necessarly new to me. I can't believe anyone can honestly hear the difference in the amplifier topology with dynamic music in a noisy car. If you can, that's great...but I have to be honest, I really can't. However, I do think every amp does sound a little bit different. 

Now for the sake of arguement, I did swich to the PPI processor but I kept my previous crossover points, slope, T/A, etc as close as possible with my last amps. And I did go from 88w to 125w on the mids and tweeters, but dropped from 215w to 125w on the midbass and from 650w to 350w on sub. 

The extra power and increased headroom is really nice on the tweeters and mids. Since the Lotus midbass is so efficient, it seems the 125w will cut it. It's definintely louder than before.

As far as sound goes, I'm hearing more music...no question. Why? Hard to say, but I really doubt it's because of the amp alone. I think the additional power and having a different processor in the signal path is what I can attribute it to. 

I do think the sound is more transparent than before. When I listen to Tool's "10,000 Days - Wings For Marie" it actually sounds like it's raining outside! I mean you get the strong sense that there's water running down the windshield....it's pretty rad dudes.  I never heard that before - even when I listen to the song on my headphones (which are crappy, but still).

I can't wait to complete my set up and get the right sub for the new amp. Right now I don't have the sub hooked up because it's a 2 ohm SVC and I'd rather not load down the amp just to have a little more bass. I'm HP the Lotus mids at 55hz in the mean time. 

*edit* holy crap i just realized what a post whore I've become. :blush:


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

The mission is one step closer to being complete.....mmmmm phase plugs....


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

i mean wtf, who uses those gay speakers?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

alphakenny1 said:


> i mean wtf, who uses those gay speakers?


Huh? You must be thinking of Rainbow??


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## |Tch0rT| (May 7, 2005)

B-Squad said:


>


If you ever end up getting rid of those I want dibs (if those are the 4"). hehe  

Ryan


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Oh my lord...do these mids sound fantastic!! They've totally brought out the fine elements in the music. My tweeters seem just so nice and relaxed now. These things are so clear. When you get them aimed right...which I don't believe I do _quite _yet...holy sound stage. Where's that two thumbs up smiley when you need it!?!? 

I'll snap some pics tomorrow. I just baffled them and threw them in the kick panel area with some OverKill behind them for now.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Question on making the fiberglass mold. What's the best thing to do with the large mass of wires that are in the way. I was thinking of just putting them all in some loom and then running it right along the door molding to get them out of the way. Any other methods that would be better?? Here's the pics of the kick panel area again. THanks!!!


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

for pillars, there's no need to glass. just pvc pipe, cut a hole in your pillar covers to fit the pvc pipe and your choice of expandable foam or body filler for the build up.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

alphakenny1 said:


> for pillars, there's no need to glass. just pvc pipe, cut a hole in your pillar covers to fit the pvc pipe and your choice of expandable foam or body filler for the build up.


Word! Thanks bro.


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## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

Is it just me, or is B-Squad one of the most equipment-switchingest people out there? 

Just kiddin with ya man. Install looks great! It would be a shame to hide those Lotus tweets behind some grille cloth, but I can understand wanting to deter wandering eyes.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

dawgdan said:


> Is it just me, or is B-Squad one of the most equipment-switchingest people out there?
> 
> Just kiddin with ya man. Install looks great! It would be a shame to hide those Lotus tweets behind some grille cloth, but I can understand wanting to deter wandering eyes.


You ain't seen nutin yet boy!  

No, once I get the tweets and midranges all happy in their new homes, I'm retiring. Someone will have to take my spot as honorary Co-Captain of TEAM n00b Lotus.  

Looks like I might not need that grill cloth now that I can't get the tweeters back behind the panel anymore.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Question on making the fiberglass mold. What's the best thing to do with the large mass of wires that are in the way. I was thinking of just putting them all in some loom and then running it right along the door molding to get them out of the way. Any other methods that would be better?? Here's the pics of the kick panel area again. THanks!!!


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## trike (Sep 22, 2005)

if you want to just have them out of the way so they don't eat up you valuable airspace, i'd just zip tie them up so they're neat and then tape em down where you want them. then tape over the whole area with good quality masking tape and go to town as usual.

if you get the wires in a single group and then glass over them, you will make a kind of "channel" in the mold for them to fit into once its done. there are a number of ways and it probably doesn't matter too much as long as you don't fiberglass the harness itself.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

trike said:


> if you want to just have them out of the way so they don't eat up you valuable airspace, i'd just zip tie them up so they're neat and then tape em down where you want them. then tape over the whole area with good quality masking tape and go to town as usual.
> 
> if you get the wires in a single group and then glass over them, you will make a kind of "channel" in the mold for them to fit into once its done. there are a number of ways and it probably doesn't matter too much as long as you don't fiberglass the harness itself.


Good point. I just zip tied them and taped them. Too much work to loom them. Thanks.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Project mayhem has begun. Just had time to tape today. Will start the molds tomorrow.

Supplies:









Illustrious tape job. You like? It is nice? [sorry, can't get Borat out of my head]

















Is Meguiar's Quick Detail wax ok to use as a mold release?? http://www.meguiars.com/?spray-car-waxes/Quik-Wax


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

So you are finally making a commitment. Bravo. Keep us updated.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> So you are finally making a commitment. Bravo. Keep us updated.


I'm tellin ya...after 5 minutes with these Lotus 4's....I was sold. Hopefully they will sound ok with as little airspace as I can afford.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

vented into the carpet, I bet itll be accoustically fantastic.

may I ask why you cut the baffles the way you did?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> vented into the carpet, I bet itll be accoustically fantastic.
> 
> may I ask why you cut the baffles the way you did?


I figured the extra room around the edge would give the fiberglass something to stick to better. Should they be the exact shape of the driver? See sig for explanation. :blush:


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

doesn't have to be the same shape as the speaker. 

you gonna add a grill of some sorts? 

also do you have your original kick panels? you can use that as your mold to make it look stock when you put the panel into your door sills.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

alphakenny1 said:


> doesn't have to be the same shape as the speaker.
> 
> you gonna add a grill of some sorts?
> 
> also do you have your original kick panels? you can use that as your mold to make it look stock when you put the panel into your door sills.


Ok, good. Wonder what whiterabbit meant?

Probably eventually. Snow, salt and sand don't need to be anywhere near the cones.

Yes I do. Was thinking about doing that. Thanks for the tip brah!


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

looks nice but I'd have covered a lot more area with the tape. and I found out the hard way, while spray wax works, it'll also keep the resin from curing. use the paste wax and let it dry a bit for best results.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> looks nice but I'd have covered a lot more area with the tape. and I found out the hard way, while spray wax works, it'll also keep the resin from curing. use the paste wax and let it dry a bit for best results.


Really, why? I figure I'd just be wasting it by cutting it off anyway.

Ok I will use the other wax then, thanks.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> Really, why? I figure I'd just be wasting it by cutting it off anyway.
> 
> Ok I will use the other wax then, thanks.


Well when I'm glassing I'll always get one stray drop that manages to find it's way to the only spot I didn't put any tape. You don't have to glass the whole area, but the more protection the better.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Attention! Attention!! I have a little confession to make. I SUCK at fiberglassing. I _thought_ I was bad a soldering...but oh no....this takes the cake in suckyness. 

Gigantic gooey disaster anyone?? 

















Look at this abomination! I have to admit I am pretty shocked no resin seeped through and that it actually came out in one piece.









So, what I learned today...
1) The plastic party cups like the ones you get at kegger parties....yea they don't work so well. On my first batch, the resin ate right through the thing and it ran all over the floorboard before I noticed. Luckly the drop cloth caught it.
2) You need more than 3 pairs of gloves!!
3) Tear up PLENTY of mat BEFORE you start. And wear your gloves when doing it!!!  
4) Don't go back and try to "touch up" your work after the mold has set. This does not work. It makes it worse.
5) Don't wear your nice church clothes.
6) Do wear your respirator....at all times. Because the fumes will make you looney....


----------



## trike (Sep 22, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> Attention! Attention!! I have a little confession to make. I SUCK at fiberglassing. I _thought_ I was bad a soldering...but oh no....this takes the cake in suckyness.


Don't get discouraged. Either try and finish what you have or toss it and start over. You almost have to plan ahead on f-ing it up the first time. Looks like you didn't wet the glass out completely. A roller will help with that.



> So, what I learned today...
> 5) Don't wear your nice church clothes.


yer kidding... i hope...


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Well what happened is that I slopped too much resin down and the top layer of tape was becoming saturated. I tried to push it down, but the resin was so thick by then that I ended up pulling it up instead. As a fix, I just took some mat and tried to soak up any excess and push it down flat. The window of opportunity is pretty short with that stuff. I wonder if I added too much catalyst?

Both molds are out and have pretty good integrity actually...especially where they need it in the creases and folds. The thin parts are at the tops which will probably be trimmed off anyway. 

Yes, I am.  This whole FG project might end up being a joke. Hopefully not.


----------



## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

What brand resin is that? Don't skimp! Cheaper resins usually have much shorter working times (15 minutes vs. 30-45 minutes).


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

dawgdan said:


> What brand resin is that? Don't skimp! Cheaper resins usually have much shorter working times (15 minutes vs. 30-45 minutes).


I bought it a local industrial arts supply store. It was $32/gal. It's blue. It's NOT Bondo!! That's about all I know. I did see the Bondo stuff at HD..thought it was like $28/gal or so. They wanted like $13 for the Bondo body filler. Screw that. I bought a pound of it at the same place I got everything else for $5. 

BTW I used your tutorial Dan. I added up the cost at US Comp for what I bought locally and it was $5 less, but 7 days out. 70* days in November in MN don't happen too often...so it was now or never basically. Next time I think I will try the Kyntex...despite the extra cost...it looks so much more easier to use.


----------



## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

Cool! I noticed your pic there and thought "isn't it a little cold in MN for that kind of work right now?"  

But yeah, when it gets warmer out, try your hand at some Knytex and a good, thin, syrupy resin. Works great!


----------



## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> Wonder what whiterabbit meant?


he meant to find out why you decided to cut the baffles the way you did.

unfortunately, his internet connection blocks the link in your sig, so no explanation is downloadable  

I'd still love to know why you chose to manufacture the baffle the way you did. not a loaded question, its meant to find out what you were thinking when you sat down in the garage and decided to cut a pair of baffles.


----------



## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

^^ Steve, curious on why you ask about the baffles? does it make a huge difference? enlighten me .


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> unfortunately, his internet connection blocks the link in your sig, so no explanation is downloadable
> 
> I'd still love to know why you chose to manufacture the baffle the way you did. not a loaded question, its meant to find out what you were thinking when you sat down in the garage and decided to cut a pair of baffles.


It's not the system, it's the TEAM...or rather the nature of the team. :blush: Pretty much everything I've learned about this hobby has been from forums like this. No one has touched my car except me. So I learn by trial and error. 

I was cutting the baffles and then thought "I think I should make these like 1/2" bigger so I have a more pronounced edge to work off of once I start to fiberglass. Afterall, the driver will probably have to stick out a bit from the car in order to create as big of an enclosure as I can make (Seas recommends 2.7L) and if the baffle is too small it will look retarded."


----------



## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

You're doing better than my first attempt...in which I didn't use enough catalyst and I had to pull out the goopy mess and start over. Of course at that point (I let it set for several hours) my car already wreaked and it took months to get the smell to go away. One tip would be to keep the car well ventilated during the entire process. Don't let any fumes linger in the car.

But anyway, your kicks came out in one piece...so it is a success thus far.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks for the encouragement fellas.

Yea that was my next question....how long is this mofo going to stink! I've left all the windows cracked all day (cold) and wide open at night with a fan going in the garage. I even have two boxes of baking soda in there...not sure what good that is doing though. 

After I cut to fit, I think I'm going back to add some more resin around the edges to help reinforce them a bit.


----------



## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

It'll take at least a few weeks for the smell to go away.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Progressing....slowly but surely. I put another layer of snot...I mean resin on the kicks yesterday. When you don't use enough catalyst plus it's cold and humid out, it's pretty goopy and slimy. Took forever to cure. Still ugly as hell, but more solid now than before. Next step is to trim and add more glass if I need to.










Also managed to get the A pillars started. The tweets sit pretty nicely in there and I am still able to aim them where I want them. Driver's side shot...


----------



## B&K (Sep 20, 2005)

I find it much easier to put the mat on a piece of cardboard, saturate with a brush and then put it on the mold or location using the brush to push it down with a little more resin. It keeps you from over using resin as well as it saturates the mat nicely and the waxless stuff you have from Iasco sticks really well to itself.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

B&K said:


> I find it much easier to put the mat on a piece of cardboard, saturate with a brush and then put it on the mold or location using the brush to push it down with a little more resin. It keeps you from over using resin as well as it saturates the mat nicely and the waxless stuff you have from Iasco sticks really well to itself.


Wow...nice eye on the IASCO WOW2  So you've used it??

Thanks a lot for the tips....I've read my share of tutorials, but never heard of that. Will try for sure. Thanks Sean.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Well I'll be damned, these things might turn out ok after all. I trimed them to fit and then add another layer of FG. This time I soaked the mold with spray adhesive and then stuck the mat to it. I think I got the resin on a little too thick again, but I'm not complaining.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

And they actually fit back in to the car.

















Look at the purdy magnets:









Seas Neo peaking through the hole...getto fab style:


----------



## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

wtf? Neo or Lotus reference??? 

<---confused by teh gr3at sw1tchz0r!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

dawgdan said:


> wtf? Neo or Lotus reference???
> 
> <---confused by teh gr3at sw1tchz0r!


LMAO!  

One of the Lotus tweets went down last week unfortunately. She battled for a long time with tinsle disconnectitis. The bouts of cutting in and out of music gradually became more and more frequent until it was too unbearable for her. No amount of solder or hot glue could save her. RIP RT25A...you are gone, but not forgotten.


----------



## jay (Sep 12, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> LMAO!
> 
> One of the Lotus tweets went down last week unfortunately. She battled for a long time with tinsle disconnectitis. The bouts of cutting in and out of music gradually became more and more frequent until it was too unbearable for her. No amount of solder or hot glue could save her. RIP RT25A...you are gone, but not forgotten.


that's a pity......but now there's room for the new and improved RT27F


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

jay said:


> that's a pity......but now there's room for the new and improved RT27F


One step ahead of you brother.  

Problem is I cut the pillars to fit the old ones exactly as to hide them. The new ones are just a few mm more on the lip and will have to flush mount on the PVC or I need new pipe to retain my original idea.


----------



## Scott Dodge (Nov 6, 2006)

Great progress man! I'm going to be home in SW MPLS starting wednesday, mind if I come by and check it out or offer a hand? Shoot me a PM or something... I'd love to check out the setup!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Scott Dodge said:


> Great progress man! I'm going to be home in SW MPLS starting wednesday, mind if I come by and check it out or offer a hand? Shoot me a PM or something... I'd love to check out the setup!


Hey Scott....actually I'll be out of town for a few days into next week. We'll hook up some time though. I'd like to sample your system as well.


----------



## B&K (Sep 20, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> Wow...nice eye on the IASCO WOW2  So you've used it??
> 
> Thanks a lot for the tips....I've read my share of tutorials, but never heard of that. Will try for sure. Thanks Sean.


Glad I could help a little, I feel bad that I haven't come over to offer a hand. I am looking forward to hearing your setup though


----------



## Scott Dodge (Nov 6, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> Hey Scott....actually I'll be out of town for a few days into next week. We'll hook up some time though. I'd like to sample your system as well.


Ah, all good.

I don't think you want to hear what I have now... It's in the "Post-stolen" phase... I have the equipment again, but just no time or tools...


----------



## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

B-Squad, did you have any plans to cover the a-pillar frame around the tweeter (including over the tweeter trim ring) with overkill or ensolite to guard against early reflections? I bet itd be easy to cut a 1.25-1.5 inch hole in a 8"x4" piece of the material and tack into place before fitting the refinished a pillars back in place!

also I am curious if you plan to colorchange the a-pillar black with your grille cloth?


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> B-Squad, did you have any plans to cover the a-pillar frame around the tweeter (including over the tweeter trim ring) with overkill or ensolite to guard against early reflections? I bet itd be easy to cut a 1.25-1.5 inch hole in a 8"x4" piece of the material and tack into place before fitting the refinished a pillars back in place!
> 
> also I am curious if you plan to colorchange the a-pillar black with your grille cloth?


Good idea...and thank you. I was planning on throwing some peal-n-seal on the back of the pillar panel. I have some sitting here and I figured it wouldn't hurt. I do have just a little OverKill left and I will take your recommendation on the size and shape of it around the tweeter.  

Not sure on the color of the pillars. I do have some black grill cloth for the job. I guess it's just a matter of laying the material out and seeing how it looks before anything permenant goes in.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Behold the power of the Lotus:








2006 model Lotus tweeter (RT27F) on top, 2005 (RT25F) on bottom:

















Just need to get the dremel out to make the ID on the PVC just a bit bigger for the new tweets to fit inside. Still going for a stealth look.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Look Mom, I can paint!


----------



## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Nice...I'm telling ya...those PE grills are the best $7 i ever spent


----------



## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

3.5max6spd said:


> Nice...I'm telling ya...those PE grills are the best $7 i ever spent


Not a PE grille... made by the now-MIA Chaos on the board. Dammit, I need a grille bad, and he's nowhere to be found!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

PE grills are good for one thing, for me to take a poop on! 

Yes, that is the Chaos special. And yes you can stand on them. Funny he's MIA?


----------



## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

Yeah, I PM'd him several weeks ago. No reply. 

Xetec and SRx I see.  The Xetec is an interesting amp. Is that the 8-channel? Post up a review if you get a chance.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

dawgdan said:


> Yeah, I PM'd him several weeks ago. No reply.
> 
> Xetec and SRx I see.  The Xetec is an interesting amp. Is that the 8-channel? Post up a review if you get a chance.


Why yes it is. Might be the last amp the Gr8 Switchzor evR ownz 2!  How many channels do you need? 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, (sorry no 7) or 8?? I'm currently trying it in 5 channel mode: 88x4 + 330x1 @4. The SRx4 is bridged to the midbass...170x2 @4. 

P9 combo is coming up. Stay tuned.


----------



## dawgdan (Aug 10, 2006)

LOL, awesome amp, and a rare one too. Hang onto that one, teh gr8 sw1tchz0r!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

dawgdan said:


> LOL, awesome amp, and a rare one too. Hang onto that one, teh gr8 sw1tchz0r!


Sorry, I had the spelling all wrong.  

What's neat about it is that the channels are combined by circut boards (they call them modules) that are inserted on the board. If you remove the top plate you see 8 seperate gain dials and then you have to remove another plate to switch the modules out. So yea, 8 channels in less than a square foot ain't half bad.


----------



## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

Is the xetec a good amp. Im thinking about replacing my alpine last v12 model for this one.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

hc_TK said:


> Is the xetec a good amp. Im thinking about replacing my alpine last v12 model for this one.


Not sure what the availability is in Europe, but over here they are not easy to come by. If you find one, you are lucky. The 8G-1000 is something like $1300 USD.


----------



## hc_TK (Jan 18, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> Not sure what the availability is in Europe, but over here they are not easy to come by. If you find one, you are lucky. The 8G-1000 is something like $1300 USD.


its one for sale in norway going for 3000 kr or 500$..Thats cheap! i thinking about selling my alpines and buy this one. Do it got great sq potential?


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

hc_TK said:


> its one for sale in norway going for 3000 kr or 500$..Thats cheap! i thinking about selling my alpines and buy this one. Do it got great sq potential?


Well that's a pretty good price. Not sure if it warrants a sale for what you have currently. 

I really don't believe amps have "SQ" personally. What I can tell you as that the amp seems to do it's rated power and it's features are worth the price. The build quality it fantastic. I mean this amp is very heavy for it's size...I think I measured it at 15 lbs or so.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Built by zee Germans:









































But nothing more than cheap plastic and aluminum to tell you the truth.


----------



## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

The board looks somewhat sparse with reguard to capacitors.

What is your opinion, John? Worth the dough?


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

coffee_junkee said:


> The board looks somewhat sparse with reguard to capacitors.
> 
> What is your opinion, John? Worth the dough?


I will write up a review in it after I put it through the ringer. I will put it on the DIYMA 12 and on my mids and see how it performs.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Well I just installed and played with the Rainbow amp a little bit. This amp has no onboard gain! It is designed to use with Rainbow's preamp which is a seperate piece I don't have. So, basically you get an amp and that's it....pretty simple.

The input sensitivity is 5.5v and it's rated at 450w bridged at 13.8v. Since I'm not using the preamp, the manual suggests that you flip the dip switch to the "On" position on the board to change the input sensitivty to 1v. Well, with the dip switch kept "Off," this thing already hammers my sub! In order to keep the sub from over powering everything else I had to attenuate it -12dB from the HU. I took of the end cap and flipped the switch for fun, and the amp nearly went into protect and the sub bottomed out. 

I'll try it on my midbass after a week or so and see how it goes. But, so far so good.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Aaaaaaaaah the sweet sound of silence!!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Oh my dear LORD!! This digital signal is unbelievable. I don't know if it's just that the noise floor is non-existant or what....but I've had Pink Floyd's "The Wall" going for the last couple of days and it is dead silent! I've been listening to it at full volume and it is clear as a bell.  Anyway, one hell of a satisfied P9 combo owner here!!! :woot:


----------



## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

So the PPI is out and you are using a P9 combo now? 

Very nice. I'm running digital now too and I'll never switch to anything except a system that has an outboard DAC. Of course my system is circa 1998 (Clarion DRX9575rz/DPH7500z) but the detail you get out of music is worth the lack of features.


----------



## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

welcome to the world of digital .


----------



## coffee_junkee (Jul 13, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> Oh my dear LORD!! This digital signal is unbelievable. I don't know if it's just that the noise floor is non-existant or what....but I've had Pink Floyd's "The Wall" going for the last couple of days and it is dead silent! I've been listening to it at full volume and it is clear as a bell.  Anyway, one hell of a satisfied P9 combo owner here!!! :woot:


John, what brand of Toslink did you use?


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Yea the PPI is like soooooo 2006 dude.  I really like the PPI unit though. And I do miss the high voltage out from the 8053. But when you can turn your music on and not hear any hiss what so ever, it's just a beautiful thing. 

I did have some reservations (albiet extremely picky) about the "Pioneer sound." I've always found it to be a little cold and washed out...and the P9 is on that side of the spectrum...but man-o-man the detail is well worth it as you said. It has a very fluid transparency that really creates an almost floating stage. Kind of like you are swimming in the sound. Keep in mind this is a direct swap...same amps, speakers, and x-over points and slopes. The only thing I have yet to do is set the gains.

Kris - I'm using the proprietary digital coaxial cable that came with the DEQ. There's a coaxial run and a IP-Bus run to the processor. Not exactly sure how they work in tandem. I'm assuming the coaxial cable just carries the sound and the IP-Bus does the communicating.

I have an iPod interface adaptor that I'm going to try and see how that goes.


----------



## ArcL100 (Jun 17, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> But when you can turn your music on and not hear any hiss what so ever, it's just a beautiful thing.


No signal noise what-so-ever is my white whale. I hate you, I would kill for what you've achieved 

So are you running your P9 to the pioneer digital processor or whatever?

-aaron


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

ArcL100 said:


> No signal noise what-so-ever is my white whale. I hate you, I would kill for what you've achieved
> 
> So are you running your P9 to the pioneer digital processor or whatever?
> 
> -aaron


I'm telling you...run balanced or digital or just plan on staying on antidepressants for the rest of your car audio days.  

Yes.... [DEX-P9]---> digital out--->[DEQ-P9]--->1.5ft RCA's---> amps.  

My only real qualm so far is the relative inflexiblity of the x-over points. Maybe I'm just spoiled coming from the PPI...which nothing can match at it's price point.

Having 36 dB slopes and phase adjustment is similar to Kicker's DSP. However, the phase is not independant L/R on the DEQ.  BUT, like I said the sound difference IS well worth these minor issues.

I forgot to mention that I haven't done any T/A at all yet (because it requires accurate measurements to from the head postition to each driver) and the stage is outside the pillars, 4" above the dash and just beyond the windshield. The instrument placement is close, but the center image is diffuse and not very strong. So I'm definitely stoked about that!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

....and 'the mission' is complete. Lotus all around folks. Here's the last and final weapon: 










I really like this sub! It is so damn accurate. Probably the least overhang of any sub I've ever used. It just pops hard and then it's done. It doesn't go loooooow in my 1.25 cubes enclosure...like the DIYMA 12...but man does it play all the notes with authority. 

On top of the rack is an Audison SRx4 which puts out 170w to the midbass. 


















I also put my midranges on the Assman baffles and then mounted the Madisound grills for the winter. The fiberglassing will resume once the weather premits. But for now I need to keep the sand, snow and salt off the mids.


----------



## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

haha. lol nice! the "mission" is complete for one of us. looks good man! 

For everyones info, assman is me .


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

alphakenny1 said:


> haha. lol nice! the "mission" is complete for one of us. looks good man!
> 
> For everyones info, assman is me .


heheheh...yes. I really should take the grills off to display the expert craftmanship of the Assman baffle. They are truely one of a kind.


----------



## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

Assman baffle. You kill me. Nice work B. Did you finish the a-pillars though?


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

BodegaBay said:


> Assman baffle. You kill me. Nice work B. Did you finish the a-pillars though?


You'd have to talk to alphakenny...HE'S the assman!! 

A pillar project on hold. Got a tweet out for repair. Don't ask.


----------



## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> heheheh...yes. I really should take the grills off to display the expert craftmanship of the Assman baffle. They are truely one of a kind.


let's not  .


----------



## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

that means its time to buy a second SRx4 to handle the tweets and mids, and my SRX1 to handle the bass. matching amps to power matching speakers


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> that means its time to buy a second SRx4 to handle the tweets and mids, and my SRX1 to handle the bass. matching amps to power matching speakers


No thanks.  I considered that, but Audison is way too hard to come by at the prices I want to pay for it. Also, that SRx1 is too anemic at 4 ohm for my tastes. If I had 8's in the doors.....mmmmmmaybe. Tell you what though, if I ever went back to a passive set, I'd definitely consider a trio of SRx1's...one each side and one on the sub!


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

KICK BASS!!










Word to your Mother....


----------



## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

Like 'em more than the Refs?


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Too early to tell what I really like better overall. They have a fuller/beefer midbass to them but they don't snap like the Ref's. Less articulate, but smoother. The thing that I noticed right off the bat is that they blend almost seemlessly with my sub. Basically the thing just disappeared. I have to play a wider range of tunes before I write up a little review on them vs. the Refs.


----------



## stormtrooper (Dec 10, 2005)

hmmmm, does this mean you will part with a set ?? LOL


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

stormtrooper said:


> hmmmm, does this mean you will part with a set ?? LOL


----------



## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

hey which tweeter did that set come with?


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

alphakenny1 said:


> hey which tweeter did that set come with?


Cal 25


----------



## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

sweet. so any updates?


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

alphakenny1 said:


> sweet. so any updates?


Well as I said, they do blend very well with the sub. I have them HP at 80hz @ 12db as per Rainbow's suggestions. Not sure I really _love _them over they RW165's though. I believe they use poly on these cones? Not sure, but it's definitely less revealing than the mag cones on the Lotus. They do fill the cabin with nice, smooth midbass...and I would have to agree with the contention that they "kick" out the midbass. 

I have my Audison SRx4 bridged on them now. So they see 170w. I think I'll put 260w on them and see how they do. They seem to like the power.

Anything else you'd like to know Secretary Assman?


----------



## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

kewl... Wonder what you'd think of the Vanadium KIck driver w/ the aluminum cone....


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

3.5max6spd said:


> kewl... Wonder what you'd think of the Vanadium KIck driver w/ the aluminum cone....


Feel free to send me some and I'm sure I can answer that question for you!


----------



## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> I believe they use poly on these cones?


Treated paper cone, perhaps poly dustcap on that model..


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Steady as she goes. Made a little progress today with the midranges. They are pretty much ready to be glassed over...once I get around to it.

I got the path lengths within ~10 inches of each other. I used a laser pointer to check the aim. If the center console wasn't there the axis points would cross about 2' below the HU I'd say. Without any T/A in the whole system the image is centered, but not all that well focused right now. I'm sure the FR and such will change once the kicks are complete.


----------



## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Oh and I also noticed that the cone was rubbing on the copper ring on one of the mids. So I took it apart, unsecrewed the phase plug and cleaned it out. Looks like it sucked some sand and **** in there over the winter, but nothing major. Keep your motors clean fellas. 

And I finally set my gains on my front stage amp. :blush: I just played a familiar, but fairly hot track at about 5 clicks down from max and kept the tweeters at 0db on the crossover. I then brought up the midranges and midbasses until they matched output according to my ears. I'll have to go back and double check with tones to make sure the L and R channels are votage-matched.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Will this system ever be finished?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> Will this system ever be finished?


Hey, Michelangelo didn't paint the celing of the Sistine Chapel overnight now did he!?!?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

"Boner of the week" amps and A pillar install pics. Sorry, that's all my worthless butt has done lately.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

You need to lay off the boner of the week stuff and get this system finished man. That is like the third photo of your box I have seen...and each time it has different amps sitting on top.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> You need to lay off the boner of the week stuff and get this system finished man. That is like the third photo of your box I have seen...and each time it has different amps sitting on top.


So your saying you want to see the other pics of all the other amps that I've had on top?? Hold on, I'll be right back......

Odly enough, these little Viagra treats fit perfectly back there. Now, so would 4 DLS dual mono's but I ain't got the cheddar for that. 

215x4 + 330x2 + 800x1 at $.35/watt.


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

B-Squad said:


>


B, 

Can you give me close-up pics of the pillar install? I can't tell if that's filler you've used between the tweeters and panel.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

BodegaBay said:


> B,
> Can you give me close-up pics of the pillar install? I can't tell if that's filler you've used between the tweeters and panel.


Hey BB - They are just snug fit into the pillar plastic. I did this so that I could drive around and aim them and make fine adjustments. I think I have them set now...aimed at each other plus about 2" up and 1" forward into the cabin. 

Next step is to glue them in and bondo around the PVC. Without these pipe enclosures, the tweeters would be aimed well into the winshield if I just flush mounted them.

The tweeters themselves are held into the PVC by a backstrap bracket I made. Next time I'm in there I'll snap some detailed pics for you. It's nothing fancy, trust me.


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## BodegaBay (Dec 16, 2005)

Ahhh...the white "stuff" is PVC, not filler. What do you think of the tweets being that high on the A-pillars? Have you tried them lower or even in the sails? If so, what were your impressions?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

BodegaBay said:


> Ahhh...the white "stuff" is PVC, not filler. What do you think of the tweets being that high on the A-pillars? Have you tried them lower or even in the sails? If so, what were your impressions?


Oh, yea sorry...they are 2.25" x 1" pipes IIRC. I did a little Dremel magic around the front lip to counter sink them a touch. I wraped weather stripping around the lip of the tweeter to coushin them and to hold them snug. They are sold and won't go anywhere.

I did try them in the kicks and in the sails. The kicks suck! Never once have I liked any tweeter down low like that and I've tried all of them down there. The sails are prohibative because that tweeter is too big. I did try it, but the left tweeter is just too close plus it fires right into the instrument display buldge in the dash. They're ok there, but not as good as where they are now. The off axis on the RT27's is fanfuckingtastic. 

The stage is at the tweeter height, maybe a tad higher. If I really lean back in my seat it's eye level. I need longer arms!


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

> The sails are prohibative because that tweeter is too big. I did try it, but the left tweeter is just too close plus it fires right into the instrument display buldge in the dash.


I get the part about the instrument cluster...but from the photo, it looks to mee like they are the exact distance from the listener as the sail panels only a few inches higher to clear the cluster...or is it just a bad angle? Time alignment will fix all but I put mine lower in the pillar since I didn't have time alignment. I heated the plastic to angle them away from the windshield a little.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> I get the part about the instrument cluster...but from the photo, it looks to mee like they are the exact distance from the listener as the sail panels only a few inches higher to clear the cluster...or is it just a bad angle? Time alignment will fix all but I put mine lower in the pillar since I didn't have time alignment. I heated the plastic to angle them away from the windshield a little.


Probably 2-3" further away and just high enough to clear the dash cluster. I did end up removing the reinforcement bar thing under the panel, otherwise they'd be lower. The left is also further off axis which helps. 

The most important thing to me is that I can't hear them there, so I'm pretty satisfied. World Class install? Nope, not even close. But I've heard much much worse.

No home is permanent though either.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Deadener porn! I mean poron...










Damn I wish I would have found this stuff sooner. It flipping rocks. It does't have ultra adhesion, but it really kills sound waves. I put a layer on the door panel as you can see and then 3 layers behind the mids. I just did the drivers door and it is now virtually silent. There is some resonance, but it's the door skin and I can't get to it anymore.

Tweets looking a little better, but still not done. :blush:


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## SQdude (Mar 29, 2007)

Looking good B. Where did you get that stuff (sorry if you already mentioned it)?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks. More on the foam: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13728&highlight=poron+foam


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

whats the plan for the tweets? i'd just build up the pvc with bondo and then wrap it around vinyl or suede.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

alphakenny1 said:


> whats the plan for the tweets? i'd just build up the pvc with bondo and then wrap it around vinyl or suede.


That's the plan sir. Did you use suede? Where did you find it? I have that Madisound cloth, but it's not all that great.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

B-Squad said:


> That's the plan sir. Did you use suede? Where did you find it? I have that Madisound cloth, but it's not all that great.


when i did my pillars i used vinyl. i suggest going to a local upholstery place so you can compare it physically right there to see if it matches your interior. i've made the mistake a couple of times ordering online but using my monitor to match them up, lol. obviously it didn't work out. then if you can't find anything locally, you can get swatches online and then go from there.


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## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

Looks good man. Speaking of the adhesion, is it easily pliable?
Did you have to use anything in conjunction to promote better adhesion? How is it as far as weight? Did it add substantial mass?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

3.5max6spd said:


> Looks good man. Speaking of the adhesion, is it easily pliable?
> Did you have to use anything in conjunction to promote better adhesion? How is it as far as weight? Did it add substantial mass?


It will do fine on it's own on flat surfaces. But will peel back up on the other spots. The solution I found was to give it a squirt of spray adhesive to keep it down.

I go a roll that was 11 lbs and was 25 ft^2....so that's .44 lbs/ft. So yes, it does add some mass. It's acutally nearly the same as DE which is .45lbs/ft.

I don't know if it can have a substantial mass loading effect as it's not dense like butyl...nor does it have the VE properties of it. But I can say that it does kill road noise nicely. I have a layer on my firewall and the passenger's foot well and I did notice the difference right away. At $1 per pound, it's one hell of a great product.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Behold the mighty Revelator:

















My gawd are these things nice. I love the vent under the spider. Official mounting depth is 3-5/16th's. I actually think they _might_ fit.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Shielded driver mounted cleanly WITH the windows down! 









Out with the new and in with the King:


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

For a driver not optimized for IB and not broken in yet, all I have to say is S O L I D, solid! I guess I'd never know they were 8 ohms to tell you the truth. Maybe the additional cone area has made up for it?? Either that or my impression of 8 ohm drivers needing more power has changed. 

I can see how other's describe the tone as "dark." That was my first impression, actually. But "dark" in a good way because my Lord do they play clear, low and are buttery smooth. It's so nice to have a driver that can be HP at 50 hz or lower now. I missed that with the Profi Kicks. But, I do have to say that the Profi Kicks, from what my ears are telling me so far really do own the 80-250Hz range.

More listening and tuning is in order. But I can say with confidense that Dream Theater's "Pull Me Under" has never sounded better. 

<--- still grining ear to ear that he didn't have to debuck the bastids!


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

shoot if you can fit those without debucking why not try out the sls 7"? be had for like $50 a pop.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

To all you haters thinking I never work on my car but just play with new drivers and amps all the time. 

Kicks glassed over, trimed and sanded....ready for bondo.









Back:









Bondo applied. Wow this stuff sucks to work with. Especially when all you have to use is a plastic shoe horn. :blush:









I guess it's true when they say the first time is just practice. Now, where's that bag of sandpaper that i'll need?


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

It's a miracle! I hope you started sanding before the bondo passed its "green" stage.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> It's a miracle! I hope you started sanding before the bondo passed its "green" stage.


Ooopsies


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Test fit. Took a few handfulls of polyfill, drilled a couple of holes for the wire and shoved them in. Kind of screwed up the aim on on the passengers side, but the sound is ok.


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## Suneet (Jun 19, 2007)

I just got my revs in temporarily in my door and they sound interesting. The door definitely needs to be sealed up, right now they don't have much output even close to 50hz.

Your install looks like its coming along! I 'd like to know what all your x-over points are? I'm using the revs in a 2-way setup.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Yes they are lacking the snap and authority in that region due to install. My doors are well dampened and sealed the best as I can get them, but it still doesn't act as an enclosure. I'm going to do some further experimenting and maybe even make some pod extentions for the lower door panel so that I can put them on a really thick baffle.

I have them HP at 50hz with a 24db slope and then LP at 3.15hz with a 12 db /oct slope. I got some great advice from another member that runs them IB too. He felt that giving them some extra room above the typicall 200hz LP point will help them fill out more. I tried it and felt it was great advice.


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

Kicks complete. They turned out ok. I give them a solid "C" at best. Kind of messed up on the alignment and on the edges a bit. Not a bad first try though.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Not bad. Are you going to be able to hide the wires on the driver's side?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

chuyler1 said:


> Not bad. Are you going to be able to hide the wires on the driver's side?


Yea, it looks terrible from that angle. I have to zip tie them up and tape them and it will look better. I got a little overzealous on my triming and cut it back too far right there.  

Next up, Lotus 8's with custom door pod grill-type thingy's.


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## alphakenny1 (Dec 21, 2005)

what did you end up doing for the midranges? vent or seal?

looks simple and clean. pretty good for a fab noob .


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

alphakenny1 said:


> what did you end up doing for the midranges? vent or seal?
> 
> looks simple and clean. pretty good for a fab noob .


They are sealed up right now. I guess I'm not sure what to vent them to. Can I just drill a hole in the back of it? I thought it had to go into another hole in the sill or frame.

Also how big of a hole? I forgot the rules here.

Yea, I'm fairly happy with how they turned out. I'm going to work on the A pillars today. Should have a better feel for working with the bondo and grill cloth now.


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## GlasSman (Nov 14, 2006)

B-Squad said:


> They are sealed up right now. I guess I'm not sure what to vent them to. Can I just drill a hole in the back of it? I thought it had to go into another hole in the sill or frame.
> 
> Also how big of a hole? I forgot the rules here.
> 
> Yea, I'm fairly happy with how they turned out. I'm going to work on the A pillars today. Should have a better feel for working with the bondo and grill cloth now.


3" hole works well. How did this one turn out? or did you start all over?


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

GlasSman said:


> 3" hole works well. How did this one turn out? or did you start all over?


I switched drivers from the Lotus RM110 to the Scan 12M. Initially I left the hole in the back..which was about 1.5" round and vented to the frame. Then I covered the hole in the kick with mat and they've stayed the same ever since. Better power handling and less hollow sounding then before, despite the driver change. Glad I listened to guys like Matt R when he gives advice!


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## trunks9_us (Oct 25, 2007)

subscribed


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## el_chupo_ (May 27, 2007)

trunks9_us said:


> subscribed




A great build, and in the same car I had until a few weeks ago. I have browsed the entire thing as well.

You should probably save the link rather than subscribe, Foxpro5 has not posted in this thread in over a year though.


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## Ziggy (Nov 29, 2007)

Heheheh... Bring it back!


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

OMG! I just looked back at page 7 and that was enough!  Frightening. 

Might as well continue with the un-build log and show all the stuff I've removed because it was total ****, didn't work, or sounded like ass.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

FoxPro5 said:


> Might as well continue with the un-build log and show all the stuff I've removed because it was total ****, didn't work, or sounded like ass.


like what ?..... a pair of xls8's ... j/k


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## FoxPro5 (Feb 14, 2006)

stinky06 said:


> like what ?..... a pair of xls8's ... j/k


Nope, not those Stinky boy. Those are some of the best IB woofers out there IME. 

What I meant was some of the "deadening" stuff I've tried to use. I sill have eDead v1 falling off in hard to reach places. Half of my log could be used as 'a what not to do.'


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

FoxPro5 said:


> Nope, not those Stinky boy. Those are some of the best IB woofers out there IME.
> 
> What I meant was some of the "deadening" stuff I've tried to use. I sill have eDead v1 falling off in hard to reach places. Half of my log could be used as 'a what not to do.'


lol @ stinky boy..... 
i just had to do it...oke:


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## drtool (Nov 26, 2007)

Looking for cat pictures as I type.


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## DonovanM (Nov 1, 2006)

trunks9_us said:


> subscribed


HAHAHAHAHA

For what, future updates?!

OMG that is hilarious...


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

i am just waiting for some warmer weather to stick those xls8's in my doors.they do sound terrific hooked up to my home stereo in make-shift enclosures.... i'll probably will need to use locktite on the side mirror bolts:laugh:....they do play low notes with authority....


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## bfowler (Nov 25, 2009)

back from the thread grave! doing my own mp5 and used this for lots of reference. my own thread to come soon! thanks!


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