# XBL TWEETERS $95 SHIPPED!!!!



## Ultimateherts

XBL TWEETERS $95 Shipped per pair. Thought I would share.

Dome Tweeter | eBay


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## squeak9798

Those seem to be the CSS LD25X

City/State match the US address for CSS as well.

Interesting for sure. I wonder if these are b-stock or what the deal is they are blowing them out ebay.


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## vrdublu

Awesome catch, just picked up a pair!!


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## reker13

hot deal!


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## unemployedconsumer

Thank you for posting this. If these end up being legit overstock CSS ld25x I am going to be a very happy man. Wanted to try them out but couldn't get myself to pay full price on them.

Paypal receipt says creative sound solutions on it. Pretty pumped about this.


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## c_nitty

So what does this compare to and is it a good price ?


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## RAW

I can confirm they are the tweeters from CSS as the add points in the direction.

After testing all the tweeters for Bob I had them all in matched pairs for fs.


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## Ultimateherts

c_nitty said:


> So what does this compare to and is it a good price ?


It's hard to say because if these are the CSS tweeters they are the only ones making XBL tweeters!


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## unemployedconsumer

c_nitty said:


> So what does this compare to and is it a good price ?


The tests all show low distortion and ability to cross low (<2k) with plenty of output. Workable flange size (3") for apiller install. Normally they are like $230 a pair so a lot of people like me couldn't justify trying them out but at this price I can't justify not trying them out. Can't wait to get them at the house.


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## Patrick Bateman

SOLD OUT


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## Ultimateherts

Patrick Bateman said:


> SOLD OUT


Ya I feel the same, but as being severely under employed I only post what I find... On the other hand I have way too much spare time!!!


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## mitchyz250f

Glad I jumped on this. I bought 2 sets.


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## 2010hummerguy

Thanks for posting this, picked up a pair yesterday. I think this will mate well with my four AE Dipole6 mids in an MTM pair. Success!


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## RAW

I am sure some more will be loaded to Ebay soon


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## 2010hummerguy

Tested them yesterday and initially I am extremely impressed. Looks like three new variations are up for sale with varied but matched impedances and FS specs.


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## CDT FAN

Architect7 said:


> Tested them yesterday and initially I am extremely impressed. Looks like three new variations are up for sale with varied but matched impedances and FS specs.


Please give us more review.


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## HTX

anyone buy an extra set that they want to sell?


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## Ultimateherts

More listed in new auction, but $10 more. So now $105 SHIPPED


Dome Tweeter | eBay


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## RAW

I tested every one and have all the impedance for every tweeter for those who would like:0
I need the number off the back which I wrote on every tweeter.With this I can email you the praxis file or a bitmap which ever you prefer.I think I even did double tests on some with the WT2 from Smith and Larson.


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## teldzc1

Just ordered mine. Any off axis response curves? I'll be placing mine in the dash.


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## RAW

I have off axis for a few dozen not all of them. I tested several hundred of them..But I have 0-45 off axis on a 10" baffle for a few like I said.


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## HTX

RAW said:


> I tested every one and have all the impedance for every tweeter for those who would like:0
> I need the number off the back which I wrote on every tweeter.With this I can email you the praxis file or a bitmap which ever you prefer.I think I even did double tests on some with the WT2 from Smith and Larson.


can you take the flange off?


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## teldzc1

That's fine, I think a sample response would be helpful just so we have a general idea.


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## 2010hummerguy

CDT FAN said:


> Please give us more review.


They are currently covering 2250hz+ with a SEAS Excel W15 and two W22's per side in open baffle. So far they are many times more detailed than my XT25's. Dispersion seems to be on par which is impressive since my XT25's use 6" waveguides. They can also get LOUD. I am moving homes this week and I will not have a chance to measure these for about a month. But they sound great and that's what counts, right?


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## Patrick Bateman

Ultimateherts said:


> More listed in new auction, but $10 more. So now $105 SHIPPED
> 
> 
> Dome Tweeter | eBay


oooh they're back


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## RAW

cajunner said:


> they could have maximized the profit by going group sale here first, imho...
> 
> say, 125 shipped for known matched pairing, with free response file?
> 
> people probably would have jumped on that, then what's left over you put on ebay for the 105 shipped with more information on them..
> 
> these are pretty popular it would seem to me, but I don't know if they will hold up, because of what XBL is and how the coil is so short and light, and not able to dissipate heat to the metal due to the gap area as effectively as normal motors.
> 
> anyone getting these, if it were me, I'd keep from exceeding the RMS rating with my gear and possibly driving them with something clipping limited like McIntosh Power Guard or similar limiting, and have a poly cap in-line at all times.


Not sure about your assumption (ASSUME) but I was driving several of the tweeters with 75 watts full signal during testing 20-20k with praxis.The same 24 drivers I had tested several dozen times with waterfall plots still showing the same results before and after.

As noted on the tweeter auctions the FS and impedance PEAK were matched here but the impedance over all differs between the lot of tweeters.So I had the chore of matching them all in sets of 2.Can you say several hrs of testing went into these drivers to make them matched pairs.


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## RAW

cajunner said:


> hmm...
> 
> so you're saying these can take serious abuse?
> 
> or, you're just making the point that the RMS rating is accurate?
> 
> I ASSUME that anyone buying these tweeters can treat them like any other decently high-priced tweeter from reputable companies, then?
> 
> good to know!


RMS is correct.
And yes as treated like any other tweeter with a filter or network they can perform like you ask.Like any other tweeter with no network or filter they will perform the same.Well for maybe a few minutes just like the others


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## perfecxionx

HTX said:


> can you take the flange off?


can someone provide an answer to this?


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## HTX

perfecxionx said:


> can someone provide an answer to this?


lol thank you I've been looking for a response


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## RAW

perfecxionx said:


> can someone provide an answer to this?


Someone may 

I can say the sealant is shown on the back of them and you may get the faceplate off with some ease, but I can not be sure.

These are not the UA model which CSS has also.The UA tweeters CSS has is a un assembled model of these, but last I heard a OEM was purchasing the complete stock of that model.Not sure about the inventory on those I did test over 200 of the UA model as well.


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## RAW

Ok i just talked to Bob at CSS.
Those interested in have the tweeters measured for which are purchased, I can measure them for you.Cost $20.00 per set of 2 tweeters.
What will be acoustical measured.
Off axis 0-45 with the files saved and emailed directly to the purchaser of the tweeters.

If interested you will have to contact BOB at CSS and let him know of this as you order the tweeters.

The payment is directly to myself.Bob will bring the tweeters to me and I will do the measurements and Bob will then ship the tweeters to the purchaser.

Al


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## HTX

RAW said:


> Ok i just talked to Bob at CSS.
> Those interested in have the tweeters measured for which are purchased, I can measure them for you.Cost $20.00 per set of 2 tweeters.
> What will be acoustical measured.
> Off axis 0-45 with the files saved and emailed directly to the purchaser of the tweeters.
> 
> If interested you will have to contact BOB at CSS and let him know of this as you order the tweeters.
> 
> The payment is directly to myself.Bob will bring the tweeters to me and I will do the measurements and Bob will then ship the tweeters to the purchaser.
> 
> Al


Is there any way you can check to see if he would be willing to sell any of the UA model that can be unflanged? Just a pair


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## RAW

U just asked Bob waiting for his reply..


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## HTX

RAW said:


> U just asked Bob waiting for his reply..


update?


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## RAW

email CSS directly I asked Bob and he is not sure of any remaining inventory.It may be 100 or 10 he is not sure:laugh:


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## sqchris

might be interested with unflanged...


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## RAW

The un assembled tweeters may not be for sale not sure. Can not get a yes or no from Bob. Email him directly.


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## tbomb

Has anyone received there order yet? mine were said to be here by last monday. seller sent me a tracking number and said should be any day no, but nothing shows up on tracking


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## WhippingBoy

I got a pair on special but I'm interested in an unassembled pair, too. I'll be looking to remove the flange on the pair I've already ordered.


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## unemployedconsumer

tbomb said:


> Has anyone received there order yet? mine were said to be here by last monday. seller sent me a tracking number and said should be any day no, but nothing shows up on tracking


I got mine, was really quick actually, only a couple days. Been working on my build the last few days, can't wait to hear them.


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## perfecxionx

i bought a pair, and communicated a bit with the seller, he said that they experimented with them in waveguides but were disappointed in the results. He offered to send unassembled unmatched units for $40. He also said the best way to separate the faceplate was to simply pry at it, I have yet to try this and they appear to be glued, so if someone successfully gets the faceplate off, let us know in this thread


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## RAW

OK just off the phone with Bob at CSS.
The unassembled tweeters he is going to check and see what is in stock. As noted above the tweeters did not have good results with the waveguides that were produced. I tested a lot of the UA tweeters and every wave guide Dave P produced for CSS for the UA tweeters. 

Production never went ahead with anymore wave guides for the tweeter as well the wave guide speakers I was designing for CSS which used the Motus driver were put on hold as well


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## Patrick Bateman

cajunner said:


> they could have maximized the profit by going group sale here first, imho...
> 
> say, 125 shipped for known matched pairing, with free response file?
> 
> people probably would have jumped on that, then what's left over you put on ebay for the 105 shipped with more information on them..
> 
> these are pretty popular it would seem to me, but I don't know if they will hold up, because of what XBL is and how the coil is so short and light, and not able to dissipate heat to the metal due to the gap area as effectively as normal motors.
> 
> anyone getting these, if it were me, I'd keep from exceeding the RMS rating with my gear and possibly driving them with something clipping limited like McIntosh Power Guard or similar limiting, and have a poly cap in-line at all times.




^^^ excellent observations.

Dan's XBL technology has been ripped off ruthlessly by other companies; everyone from TC Sounds to Pioneer to Alpine to Orion have used a variation of XBL in some of their drivers. And I've long wondered why no one uses it for tweeters, where it might allow someone to drop the crossover point by half an octave or even an octave.

In other words, XBL is an obvious enhancement for tweeters and small drivers. And in a world of laptops, cel phones and computer speakers, it would seem like a no-brainer for small drivers. But no one except CSS is doing it. Is there a reason for this?


Obviously this is rampant speculation on my part, and I'm pretty dim-witted when it comes to driver design


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## derekmurray169

Have any of you who have received your speakers yet tried to remove the flange? If so was it difficult? If it is not hard I will be picking up a set.


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## RAW

OK little info for those removing the face plates on the LD25X tweeters.Careful to not damage the tweter surround on doing so.
Next BEWARE of this>>>
Removing the face plate off the tweeter the frequency response changes GREATLY as does the FS.
These tweeters are actually limited by the faceplates and how they are mounted.Were the face plates are located on the tweeters plus the removal of the faceplate, drops the FS down to 500-600hz range

Just a few things to note when you want to tinker..


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## cajunner

Patrick Bateman said:


> ^^^ excellent observations.
> 
> Dan's XBL technology has been ripped off ruthlessly by other companies; everyone from TC Sounds to Pioneer to Alpine to Orion have used a variation of XBL in some of their drivers. And I've long wondered why no one uses it for tweeters, where it might allow someone to drop the crossover point by half an octave or even an octave.
> 
> In other words, XBL is an obvious enhancement for tweeters and small drivers. And in a world of laptops, cel phones and computer speakers, it would seem like a no-brainer for small drivers. But no one except CSS is doing it. Is there a reason for this?
> 
> 
> Obviously this is rampant speculation on my part, and I'm pretty dim-witted when it comes to driver design


I wonder why these CSS models didn't work in waveguides?

didn't Zaph put a soft dome in a wave guide and end up happy?

If I was speculating I'd say that the reason matching is necessary is because the XBL is extremely sensitive to build quality and getting all units to behave similarly is the problem.


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## cajunner

RAW said:


> OK little info for those removing the face plates on the LD25X tweeters.Careful to not damage the tweter surround on doing so.
> Next BEWARE of this>>>
> Removing the face plate off the tweeter the frequency response changes GREATLY as does the FS.
> These tweeters are actually limited by the faceplates and how they are mounted.Were the face plates are located on the tweeters plus the removal of the faceplate, drops the FS down to 500-600hz range
> 
> Just a few things to note when you want to tinker..



that's interesting!

this kind of information makes me think there won't be any more of these particular versions produced, due to response fluctuation over the production run, and that's possibly why these are being funneled out the door at substantial savings.


Wild speculation, you see.... this is the internet, after all.


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## RAW

Yes you are 100% correct.The main issue with XBL correctly getting it done properly.All in the quality control.Thats it in a nut shell.
Waveguides that CSS had made by Dave P were all different.Every wave guide sat differently on the UA tweeter flange and the responses were all over.I had the Motus and wave guide speaker all designed built a pair went to listen and was shocked.Measured the other speaker and it was not even close in the response.I measured every guide with the same UA tweeter and every guide had a different response...


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## RAW

Here is the Wave guide speaker I had done, when I then figured out the wave guides were not produced correctly










Production well you never know...
I am working on a NEW addition tweeter right now


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## Ultimateherts

RAW said:


> Yes you are 100% correct.The main issue with XBL correctly getting it done properly.All in the quality control.Thats it in a nut shell.
> Waveguides that CSS had made by Dave P were all different.Every wave guide sat differently on the UA tweeter flange and the responses were all over.I had the Motus and wave guide speaker all designed built a pair went to listen and was shocked.Measured the other speaker and it was not even close in the response.I measured every guide with the same UA tweeter and every guide had a different response...


Not to get off track, but how is the company MOTUS? I really like their speaker designs, but the price is high...


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## RAW

Ultimateherts said:


> Not to get off track, but how is the company MOTUS? I really like their speaker designs, but the price is high...












Motus drivers VERY good quality and measure the same.
Link below is to the photo gallery of thi Motus LD25X design I had mentioned above.

CSS MT single fold T line - a set on Flickr


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## derekmurray169

Ok I understand your response about changing the fs and response significantly by removing the flange. Would it be possible to simply machine the mounting flange down to a smaller diameter without effecting the response and the fs. 

forgive me if it is a stupid question but i do not fully understand how such things effect speaker response. Also it was my understanding that there was a model that could have the flange removed. Was it constructed in a method that did not effect the response or change the fs when this was done?


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## RAW

derekmurray169 said:


> Ok I understand your response about changing the fs and response significantly by removing the flange. Would it be possible to simply machine the mounting flange down to a smaller diameter without effecting the response and the fs.
> 
> forgive me if it is a stupid question but i do not fully understand how such things effect speaker response. Also it was my understanding that there was a model that could have the flange removed. Was it constructed in a method that did not effect the response or change the fs when this was done?


OK few things .
Yes you can machine the outside diameter of the faceplate no problems.
Now removing the face plate and or using the UA model with the removable face plate. Both can be home a issue with the response if you are remounting the face plate. As I noted above the FS of the drivers drops several hundred hertz when the faceplate is removed. 
Remounting the faceplate can give you different responses depending on the way the plate is re attached.
Best just leave the face plate attached.


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## WhippingBoy

I got my pair yesterday. Arrived after just a 2 days shipping. I'm very picky about my tweeters (can't stand the harshness of some tweets) but I really like the LD25X tweeters. Very smooth.


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## req

still waiting on mine. bought them wednesday night i think.

im looking forward to trying some stuff with these.


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## Patrick Bateman

If Al doesn't mind, I'd like to elaborate on why using a dome in a waveguide isn't such a hot idea.

First off, our perception of location at high frequencies is dictated by intensity. What this means is that you need your drivers to match VERY VERY closely.

With a dome on a flat baffle, that's fairly straightforward. Just buy two domes with good quality control, drill a hole in the baffle, and mount the tweeter.

With a waveguide, it gets trickier. As Al noted, even a slight variation in the waveguide can change the output shape. This is due to the very short wavelength. For instance, 4khz is 3.5cm long, or a bit over an inch. Without perfect symmetry in the waveguide, the loading will vary by angle. And due to these very short wavelengths, your accuracy may need to be down to a fraction of an inch.

I learned a neat trick from Geddes, which is to use plexiglass to mount the driver; that way a variation of even a tenth of an inch it obvious without using calipers.

The other problem with domes on waveguides is that the wavefront isn't in phase, because it's not flat. That discussion is beyond the scope of this post, but check out 'geddes on waveguides' over at diyaudio for lots of info on this.

Long story short - domes on waveguides aren't ideal. Not saying they don't work, but compression drivers work better. And if you must use a dome, be sure you understand how to optimize it. (Hint : small domes work better than big domes, and flat radiators work better than domes.)


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## 2010hummerguy

I have been loving mine so much that I bought 3 more pairs for a surround sound setup. I also picked up a pair of RAAL Dipole 140-15D ribbons so I will be sure to report back with a comparison.


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## HTX

has anyone used these without the flanges and yielded good results? if so please elaborate?


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## RAW

Those asking Bob has listed 4 of the UA tweeters for $40.00 On Ebay as well.
Just for your info.


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