# 2014 MECA Rulebook



## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

The new 2014 rulebook will be out any day now, starting the thread. I will post a link as soon as it is published. I can tell you all that it does look different and that it is more clear in many places than it was before. There should not be any class changes for anyone unless the rules was previously misinterpreted and it is now more clearly defined. I hope the new changes are well received, however I am on stand-by for the criticism that is inevitable with all changes.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

In for the train wreck waiting to happen.


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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

Great job noticing that it needed more clarification in areas. I look forward to seeing it


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Did you help rewrite it Chief?


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> In for the train wreck waiting to happen.


Thanks, lol!



chefhow said:


> Did you help rewrite it Chief?


I did, I asked Steve if he would let me re-structure the rulebook. I try to pay attention here and at events and I think there was a desire for more clarification. I hope what a put together is well received, I really love this hobby and I want to see it progress.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Nothing in the Navy happens without the Chief.

I'm sure it will be good if the gray areas were minimized without loosing the creativity.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> In for the train wreck waiting to happen.


Climbing onto said train.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Climbing onto said train.


Does that make me the conductor?


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Navy Chief said:


> Does that make me the conductor?


absolutely  I'm on board too...


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> In for the train wreck waiting to happen.



Where's the like button. Lol.


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## Golden Ear (Oct 14, 2012)

This should be good.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

some judge said this and made that ruling, but at finals i was illegal.

Steve just cares about making money.

Why the horn/waveguide prejudice?

I did one show and a will never compete again.

Is that outer diameter or cone size?


Whatelse am I missing?


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

It's probably just easier if I address the obvious now. But these questions are a very good example (good and bad) of what I am expecting.



thehatedguy said:


> some judge said this and made that ruling, but at finals i was illegal.


This is now addressed in the rule book.



thehatedguy said:


> Steve just cares about making money.


That's funny because I don't think he's making any, at least from MECA.



thehatedguy said:


> Why the horn/waveguide prejudice?


Just get over this one people, horns done properly can work very well that's why.



thehatedguy said:


> I did one show and a will never compete again.


This is dumb and I hear it all the time, ok fine don't come back, lol.



thehatedguy said:


> Is that outer diameter or cone size?


This is absolutely covered, no gray area here anymore.



thehatedguy said:


> What else am I missing?


I can only imagine, however I will try to answer the reasonable questions as they come up.


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## cmusic (Nov 16, 2006)

Good to see MECA is still going, as by the number of shows, going strong as compared to other organizations. I was at the first MECA show and a car that I helped build and tune won best of show in SQ. I've even judged a few MECA shows back 10-12 years ago. When I got out of competing in 2004 I remember Steve Stern was trying to find a buyer for MECA. I guess he did not find one. Good luck to MECA and all their competitors, judges, and officials for the 2014 season!


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## pionkej (Feb 29, 2008)

I mean no offense by this but I question why you have been tasked with this. MECA rule changes have been previously handled by the R&E Committee. While they may not have conveyed the changes perfectly on paper in the past, they have made an effort to continuously improve them and they typically are well experienced in competiting, judging, or both. 

I can only think of a handful of scenarios that work here:

-You, a relative unknown, were put in charge of all of the 2014 MECA rule changes and the R&E Committee was left out of the process for the first time ever.
-There were no rule changes this year and you convinced Steve to allow you to more clearly format the rules.
-You worked with the R&E Committee on rule changes/clarifications and helped with the writing formatting of the rule book and are now taking all the credit here (or are the elected "rep" to deal with the forum feedback).
-The R&E Committee solely made the rule changes/clarifications and you helped with the writing formatting of the rule book and are now taking all the credit here (or are the elected "rep" to deal with the forum feedback).

I would think one of the last two conditions probably apply here. Again, I mean no offense by any of this, but I think the actual answer is important. If the truth is #1, I'm not sure how I feel about that. I don't know anything about you, but I do know 90% of the R&E Committee, their background (qualifications), and how to reach them. The rules (or the timing of the rule releases) have never been perfect, but they are progressively getting there in my opinion and at least I know who it is deciding them and what qualifies them to have input.


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## decibelle (Feb 17, 2011)

John - if the rules have been clarified, as demanded from last year, and the actual rules have remained unchanged, it doesn't really matter who wrote it. R&E Committee or Mark, it matters not, as long as there isn't as much ambiguity and room for too much discretion. The end justifies the means, here. If what I saw this past weekend is the final draft, then the rules were largely unchanged, simply worded differently.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

I heard we are getting new awards instead of medallions this year. Thank you Navy Chief!!










I kid. But I think a good point has been made up. I truly hope the new rules cover some of the issues that were brewing in 2013


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pionkej (Feb 29, 2008)

millerlyte said:


> John - if the rules have been clarified, as demanded from last year, and the actual rules have remained unchanged, it doesn't really matter who wrote it. R&E Committee or Mark, it matters not, as long as there isn't as much ambiguity and room for too much discretion. The end justifies the means, here. If what I saw this past weekend is the final draft, then the rules were largely unchanged, simply worded differently.


That was #2 in my list which I didn't really discuss. I do agree Ally, to an extent. If Mark (I'm assuming that is Navy Chief's real name at this point) re-formatted unchanged rules for clarity, I think there is no problem so long as it is reviewed by R&E after the fact. Simply for the fact they still get the final say since something that is "clarified" could have been worded away from R&E intent in the first place.

To me, the biggest misstep last year was the rules release before Freezefest and then the (unexpected) re-release a week or two later. The rules themselves seemed to be the best they had been, and I've personally never had an issue with getting a clear answer when asked with forethought and had the details fully disclosed. 

I want to be clear that I'm not trying to hate on anybody either. I just know the R&E guys catch grief every year for the rules, and last year was the best I had seen them. I think much of this improvement has been through natural progression and iterations of the process. Unless there is a substantial change, I don't handly think it's fair for one person to step in at the end, apply the finishing touches, and then take the credit.

Disclaimer...I could be way off base too.


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

pionkej said:


> -You, a relative unknown, were put in charge of all of the 2014 MECA rule changes and the R&E Committee was left out of the process for the first time ever.


I AM a relative unknown with regards to MECA competition, I competed last year and I won my state in Mod Street. I have however been around this hobby for 20 years and I went to my first finals event in 1994. The R&E commitee was fully involved in all revisions, I was the one who had the opportunity to put the clarifications into words. I wasn't put in charge per say, I asked if I could help because I thought there was an advantage to a competitor helping to write instead of a judge. I was able to write things from a different perspective, specifically not knowing what the rule was suppose to mean I defined it from an average competitors perspective and then from there it was reviewed by the R&E to make sure it checked with their expectations. Mostly I offered to help because I love this hobby and I thought that I had a good feel for the pulse of the hobby and that I could help.



pionkej said:


> -There were no rule changes this year and you convinced Steve to allow you to more clearly format the rules.


This is mostly the case, any "changes" are probably only due to previous misinterpretations that are now more clearly defined. There are also some formatting changes to make the rulebook flow a bit better.



pionkej said:


> -You worked with the R&E Committee on rule changes/clarifications and helped with the writing formatting of the rule book and are now taking all the credit here (or are the elected "rep" to deal with the forum feedback).


I am not taking credit, I am simply making an open discussion were I can provide direct feedback on questions. I probably have 50 hours at least invested in the rulebook, however that is the price I am willing to pay to help this hobby grow. I will stand behind the revisions I suggested, and I am not afraid to take criticism. That being said I am not MECAs representative, I am merely the guy who asked for the opportunity to give back to MECA.



pionkej said:


> -The R&E Committee solely made the rule changes/clarifications and you helped with the writing formatting of the rule book and are now taking all the credit here (or are the elected "rep" to deal with the forum feedback).


See the above statement. The MECA R&E commitee is comprised of some great people, however not all of them have the time to dedicate to writing changes every year. I was willing to dedicate that time, specifically I wrote the initial draft when I was sitting on the bottom of the ocean in a submarine so I had some free time. I am just the guy who was willing to put in the effort to help an organization that I enjoy being a part of, the rulebook represents the R&E commitee fully. Trust me when I tell you that my interpretations and clarifications were not always in line with expectations and this rulebook has been through many revisions.

I will say this to all of you that may not approve of someone outside the R&E commitee helping MECA with the rulebook. I continuously see criticism of various competitive organizations here, if you dont like something get involved and make it better. If all your willing to do is complain about the rules, then you will always be forced to live with what is given to you. I saw an opportunity to get involved and I took it. I am proud of the work I have done to help MECA for the 2014 season. I started this post because I am willing to stand tall in front of all of you and give the opportunity to ask the whys and hows from the me directly as well as openly discuss the new rulebook. If any of you do not approve of my involvment or the suggestions I made to MECA then I suggest you volunteer your time next year. 

These comments are not specific to pionkje, he was just the first one to ask the inevitable questions. I dont fault him for his questions as he has the right to know, just know that I stand behind the work I did. Hopefully we can move past the who now and concentrate on the whats and whys.


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## pionkej (Feb 29, 2008)

Thank you for the balanced and thoughtful reply. I understand I posed my question in a challenging way and I'll concede you handled your reply more graciously than I posted my questions. If the rules have improved in clarity, I'm sure it will be a benefit to all who may fall into those gray areas. I look forward to seeing how they turn out, even if I'm already in the "anything goes" class.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Navy Chief said:


> I AM a relative unknown with regards to MECA competition, I competed last year and I won my state in Mod Street. I have however been around this hobby for 20 years and I went to my first finals event in 1994. The R&E commitee was fully involved in all revisions, I was the one who had the opportunity to put the clarifications into words. I wasn't put in charge per say, I asked if I could help because I thought there was an advantage to a competitor helping to write instead of a judge. I was able to write things from a different perspective, specifically not knowing what the rule was suppose to mean I defined it from an average competitors perspective and then from there it was reviewed by the R&E to make sure it checked with their expectations. Mostly I offered to help because I love this hobby and I thought that I had a good feel for the pulse of the hobby and that I could help.
> 
> This is mostly the case, any "changes" are probably only due to previous misinterpretations that are now more clearly defined. There are also some formatting changes to make the rulebook flow a bit better.
> 
> ...


MECA rule clarifications written from the bottom of some distant ocean.........
Now how frickin' cool is that!?!
Thank you Chief. :thumbsup:


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> MECA rule clarifications written from the bottom of some distant ocean.........
> Now how frickin' cool is that!?!
> Thank you Chief. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Lol, I think you are making it sound a bit cooler than it really is. A submarine can however put out more SPL than most Astro vans at a MECA show, only problem is that it's the loudest system you will never hear.


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

pionkej said:


> Thank you for the balanced and thoughtful reply. I understand I posed my question in a challenging way and I'll concede you handled your reply more graciously than I posted my questions. If the rules have improved in clarity, I'm sure it will be a benefit to all who may fall into those gray areas. I look forward to seeing how they turn out, even if I'm already in the "anything goes" class.


Thank you, I think you will enjoy some of the changes.


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

I have not had the opportunity to compete but have considered it for this season. While trying to do my build and reviewing the '13 rulebook and I had lots of questions whether I could do something or not because it just wasn't clear enough. So, my hats off to you Chief. If R&E can't write in all the changes, go ahead and help.


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

It might be out as early as tomorrow, I'll keep everyone posted.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I'm more curious where finals will be held this year. Also curious if it will be a joint finals again. If you've got the inside track on that, let us know.


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

bikinpunk said:


> I'm more curious where finals will be held this year. Also curious if it will be a joint finals again. If you've got the inside track on that, let us know.


Sorry, no data on either of those. The deadline for points is in the rulebook so that would elude to the date of Finals, that deadline date came from Steve. I hope that the joint finals continues personally but I guess we will we see.


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## Matt R (Aug 29, 2007)

R&E is still working on this.

Matt


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## Kevin K (Feb 11, 2013)

is there an issue ?....


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

Kevin K said:


> is there an issue ?....


No, the R&E committee is just doing a final scrub and making sure everything says what it is suppose to say before they post it.


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## Kevin K (Feb 11, 2013)

Just wondering (and not complaining) but it was posted that rules were supposed to be out before Christmas, just after Christmas, Jan 13th and it's almost Feb. 
I guess it really doesn't matter, good friend said build the best sound you can do (afford and have room) and compete in whatever class you fall in instead of compromising sound for a class.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

I decided a while back that I'm going to compete in the Extreme class. Depending on how the rules are written I could possibly be in a Modex. I'm not interested in getting all bent out of shape if I have any disagreements about how the rules are read. I know I won't do too well in Extreme. All I'm wanting to do is try and improve/learn and do the best I can throughout the season and hopefully end up with a pretty decent sounding system. 

I know all the people involved in creating the rules are doing the best they can and I applaud their efforts. It's not a job I wish to have trying to make everyone happy.


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## Kevin K (Feb 11, 2013)

Your right, It's hard to please everyone (you can't) and I know all folks involved are doing the best they can.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Kevin K said:


> Just wondering (and not complaining) but it was posted that rules were supposed to be out before Christmas, just after Christmas, Jan 13th and it's almost Feb.
> I guess it really doesn't matter, *good friend said build the best sound you can do (afford and have room) and compete in whatever class you fall in instead of compromising sound for a class*.


Best advice given so far this year. :thumbsup:


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I totally understand where Kevin is coming from. I've bit my tongue on it a few times because I don't want to start any ridiculous drama over something that seems pretty obvious to me, but since he mentioned it, I'll add my $.02 as well.

To be fair to the competitor, I do agree that there are people who are bound by these rules for the sake of competition (if not, there would be no classes). IMHO, rules for a season should be posted before that season starts. Plain and simple. Then a competitor can have time to read the rules and adhere to them should they desire to compete in a specific class... or if nothing else, simply to understand what their competition is up to. 

Granted, most people do this to improve, but there are a whole lot of people who take the "competition" aspect of Mobile Electronics Competition Association seriously. It just seems odd to me to have a season start (there was already a show in December) before official rules are posted. 

I say this all with due respect due to judges, R&E committeee, Steve Stern, etc. It's nothing personal. I simply think the release of rules relative to when the season kicks off needs legitimate consideration.

Edit: I can't spell.


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> I totally understand where Kevin is coming from. I've bit my tongue on it a few times because I don't want to start any ridiculous drama over something that seems pretty obvious to me, but since he mentioned it, I'll add my $.02 as well.
> 
> To be fair to the competitor, I do agree that there are people who are bound by these rules for the sake of competition (if not, there would be no classes). IMHO, rules for a season should be posted before that season starts. Plain and simple. Then a competitor can have time to read the rules and adhere to them should they desire to compete in a specific class... or if nothing else, simply to understand what their competition is up to.
> 
> ...


Another idea would be to specify the actual season with a date range or a first show. Currently I haven't seen anywhere that specifies that.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

Agreed. We just all have the understanding that anything after finals is applied toward the next year's season. But, I do agree with you that there is some ambiguity to the season start.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Season starts day after Finals.
There have been years when the new season started 2 weeks after finals with a small show


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## Mic10is (Aug 20, 2007)

Historically, the "official" "unofficial" start of the season has always been Spring Break Nationals. while there may be some shows prior to March, typically most people consider SBN the 1st real and BIg show of the season as the start of the season


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## GLN305 (Nov 2, 2007)

chefhow said:


> Season starts day after Finals.
> There have been years when the new season started 2 weeks after finals with a small show


Gotcha. I figured that was the case.


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## Matt R (Aug 29, 2007)

So i'll try to make some sense of how things work. No BS, there is no money in SQ competition. The R&E committe is a group of Judges, competitors, business owners, ect. that all volunteer their time. We are trying to make things fair and have a level playing field for all competitors in all classes. So we are generally busy people that volunteer our time to getting the rules as good as we can. Yes I said volunteer twice , oh three times. 

I think we all need to just appreciate that we have a place to compete and people that are involved that care about it. I think the relationship between the judges, competitors, and R&E is the best i've ever seen in any organization. We are so casual that it makes for a very laid back and enjoyable competition scene. It also makes for the rules being released a little later than some would like. 

For those of you that know the rules from last year, you can build your cars to them. The rules arent changing in general. There are a couple things that are going to be allowed in very specific situations. Standard cab p/u trucks can put a sub under the seat in street. A couple other things, we are mostly just clarifying the existing rules. I think we moved in a good direction last year and we are planning to just make things easier to understand. 

Matt


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## Matt R (Aug 29, 2007)

For MECA the Judges training weekend of Freeze Fest I think is considered the beginning of the season. Any points gained after finals does count towards the next season though. We have always allowed points to move with a competitor if a rule change affects a classification that happened before the rule book was released. I agree with Mic though, SBN has always been the season kick off for me.

MR


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

It would be nice if the rules where out and updated before finals and new season builds and changes can be done on time...


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

This probably doesn't belong in this thread but I was just wondering if there is ever going to be a new MECA SQ Competition cd? Last I heard was that the cd was done, just waiting on cover art. And that was before last season got started.


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

bigbubba said:


> This probably doesn't belong in this thread but I was just wondering if there is ever going to be a new MECA SQ Competition cd? Last I heard was that the cd was done, just waiting on cover art. And that was before last season got started.


yes, I heard they are releasing it this year.


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

Kudos Matt, well stated!


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## Kevin K (Feb 11, 2013)

Feb 8th.....Freezefest is two weeks away....any update on rules and when they will be released?


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

Was just wondering, are the 2014 rules close to being released and will there be a new SQ cd this year?


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

2014 rules are now up on the MECA site


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Shame the judging guidelines as seen in the freeze Fest thread aren't in the rule book. Even though some are highly questionable, ok outright wrong, it would still be nice if the competitors knew what the judges were being trained on, no?


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

Here's the link if anyone needs it.

http://www.mecacaraudio.com/flyers/2014rulebook.pdf


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Neat, so you can run 10-12" coaxes upfront in modified if you wanted as long as they weren't vented to the outside.


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## bigbubba (Mar 23, 2011)

pocket5s said:


> Shame the judging guidelines as seen in the freeze Fest thread aren't in the rule book. Even though some are highly questionable, ok outright wrong, it would still be nice if the competitors knew what the judges were being trained on, no?


I asked Steve about that at the show. He said they would be available on the site but not part of the rule book. I looked for them but haven't found them yet. Maybe they will be uploaded later.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

In Street and Mod Street it says door panel modifications aren't allowed. Does that mean ANY modification? I basically have a show truck with a nice stereo...I plan to do some minor paint work and was going to replace the factory speaker grille area with something nicer looking. The speaker itself will not move from it's OEM location. 
Do y'all think they'll be that picky?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

looks like a typo in rule 12 of "not permitted" in the stock class and rule 9 of "not permitted" in the street class.. i think it means to say 

"Installing speakers, (except subwoofers and one pair of tweeters), in NON factory 
locations.".. 

what it actually says..

"Installing speakers, (except subwoofers and one pair of tweeters), in factory 
locations. "

edit.. same with rule 9 not permitted for modified street


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

Ouch. Can't cut more than 1/2" diameter in Mod Street. Guess I'm in Modified now cause I had to cut nearly an inch. Never understood that rule. Oh well. 
Modified it is. 

Maybe I'll just go ModEx so I can feel like I'm running with the big dawgs! 



UNBROKEN said:


> In Street and Mod Street it says door panel modifications aren't allowed. Does that mean ANY modification? I basically have a show truck with a nice stereo...I plan to do some minor paint work and was going to replace the factory speaker grille area with something nicer looking. The speaker itself will not move from it's OEM location.
> Do y'all think they'll be that picky?


If you change the factory door speaker grill, you're in Modified.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

MacLeod said:


> If you change the factory door speaker grill, you're in Modified.


That's phucking stupid then...aesthetic changes shouldn't be outlawed. It won't help the sound in the least.


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

UNBROKEN said:


> That's phucking stupid then...aesthetic changes shouldn't be outlawed. It won't help the sound in the least.


Actually removing the crappy stock grill could help a little. The stock grill on a lot of my cars were thick and probably blocked all kinds of things. Replacing them with a super thin grill would help the sound.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

Mine is wide open...it's just ugly. It's a truck...they aren't known for pretty interiors. lol


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

Just go to Modified. It's not that big a leap. Go look at some scores from last year. The difference between the top Street guys and the top Mod guys ain't much at all. ModEx is where the scores start to pull away.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Pretty sure the point of that rule was preventing larger drivers by limiting the amount that can be cut


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

MacLeod said:


> Ouch. Can't cut more than 1/2" diameter in Mod Street. Guess I'm in Modified now cause I had to cut nearly an inch. Never understood that rule. Oh well.
> Modified it is.
> 
> Maybe I'll just go ModEx so I can feel like I'm running with the big dawgs!
> ...


28
2. Street - All Amateur, Consumer and Professional competitors are allowed to compete in the Street class based on the guidelines below. The Street class includes Competitors who still choose not to modify their vehicle’s interior or overall aesthetics for sound quality purposes, but allows a little more flexibility with installation and equipment. Modifications or upgrades to a vehicle’s interior, exterior, engine, or related components do not necessarily move a vehicle to a higher class unless done to improve the sound quality system beyond the limits outlined below.

3. Modified Street - All Amateur, Consumer and Professional competitors are allowed to compete in the Modified Street class based on the guidelines below. The Modified Street class includes Competitors who still choose not to modify their vehicle’s interior or overall aesthetics in front of the B-pillar for sound quality purposes, but allows increased flexibility with speaker mounting, adds the ability to use kick panels, and allows for any interior or aesthetics modifications behind the B-pillars. Modifications or upgrades to a vehicle’s interior, exterior, engine, or related components do not necessarily move a vehicle to a higher class unless done to improve the sound quality system beyond the limits outlined below.


I would say painting  and OEM grill does not change the class.


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

AcuraTLSQ said:


> I would say painting  and OEM grill does not change the class.


Agreed homie but he's talking about replacing the factory grill, at least that's what he posted. 



UNBROKEN said:


> I plan to do some minor paint work and was going to *replace the factory speaker grille area* with something nicer looking.


That's a bump to Mod at least it used to be.


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

MacLeod said:


> Agreed homie but he's talking about replacing the factory grill, at least that's what he posted.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a bump to Mod at least it used to be.


Not really sure how closely this is looked at now a days. I.e. what was the OEM grill? What is the new grill? Any SQ advantange? Or does the class change regardless just because the grill is not OEM?

Maybe he should just paint them? LOL


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

LOL yeah that's a good idea. I won't tell if y'all don't. 



pocket5s said:


> Pretty sure the point of that rule was preventing larger drivers by limiting the amount that can be cut


Well it already states you have to use the factory speaker which I am. I replaced the stock 6.5 with an aftermarket 6.5 but it wouldn't fit in the tiny little hole that the dinky stock called home. So now I've got a Street system but have to compete in Mod Street last year and now Modified! It's been my biggest rule ***** for about 10 years now......well that and getting points deducted because my $800 amp has a turn off pop. But that's another story.


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## asota (Feb 7, 2011)

New rules in stock-mod-street? The way I read it as long as seat is bolted in factory mount anything goes on how far it can move forward, back or even sideways.


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

MacLeod said:


> Ouch. Can't cut more than 1/2" diameter in Mod Street. Guess I'm in Modified now cause I had to cut nearly an inch. Never understood that rule. Oh well.
> Modified it is.
> 
> Maybe I'll just go ModEx so I can feel like I'm running with the big dawgs!
> ...


Welcome to Modified.

Chuck


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

MacLeod said:


> Ouch. Can't cut more than 1/2" diameter in Mod Street. Guess I'm in Modified now cause I had to cut nearly an inch. Never understood that rule. Oh well.
> Modified it is.
> 
> Maybe I'll just go ModEx so I can feel like I'm running with the big dawgs!
> ...


Welcome to Modified.

Chuck


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

Excuse me I stutter.

Chuck


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

Don't feel bad Aaron, I'll be in modified with you


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

UNBROKEN said:


> That's phucking stupid then...aesthetic changes shouldn't be outlawed. It won't help the sound in the least.



Keep the stock doors for competition and put the purdy doors on when u are not . Problem solved


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

MacLeod said:


> Actually removing the crappy stock grill could help a little. The stock grill on a lot of my cars were thick and probably blocked all kinds of things. Replacing them with a super thin grill would help the sound.


Agreed. My factory door grill for example is largely covered if you look at it from the back side. replacing that with one that resembles the factory grill but it more open could be a minuscule advantage.

The point is, should the verification judge ask everyone to remove half their vehicle to just make sure such things conform? I'd say no, because it would be a huge time consuming task. Far easier to say "no change" on whatever and press on.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

It looks like there were some changes in the stock class as well. 

2013 equalization rule:
"Up to 16 bands of mono or stereo (L&R) equalization"

2014 equalization rule:
"Up to 16 bands of equalization. The number of EQ bands is a cumulative total throughout the system design." 

If I am reading that correctly, 16 bands of L/R independent equalization is a total of 32 bands. That means anyone who has a DEH-80PRS has just been screwed out of the stock class. If this isn't the case, it needs to be clarified. And if you can use independent L/R EQs are you then screwed because your amp has a bass boost? Yes, I saw rule 5. However, that word "cumulative" could trump the use of an amp with bass boost. Even if the feature was not in use. 

I guess that doesn't really matter to me though. I'm removing my spare tire which bumps me to Street. In which case, I will be potentially out-classed by anyone with a stand alone DSP. The wife's car could be compete in stock, so long as we temporarily moved her underseat enclosure to the hatch.


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

i think they may have been trying to add clarification, or allow for people that may be using onboard eq in conjunction with an external eq as well, like one of the little mini din units, or for amps with onboard eq. you get 16 bands of eq per side, independent of each other or not.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Thumper26 said:


> i think they may have been trying to add clarification, or allow for people that may be using onboard eq in conjunction with an external eq as well, like one of the little mini din units, or for amps with onboard eq. you get 16 bands of eq per side, independent of each other or not.


I think you are probably right, but this will definitely need clarification. Throwing in the term "cumulative" and removing the part stating "mono or stereo (L&R)" leaves this open for a judge to interpret that head units like the DEH-80PRS do not qualify for stock. But then you move to the very next class where it is pretty much competitors choice on DSP options and it will be hard for someone with a DEH-80PRS or similar to compete.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

BigRed said:


> Keep the stock doors for competition and put the purdy doors on when u are not . Problem solved
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's probably my only real option. I don't want to go to a high class my first year out...I'd like to at least get my feet wet before I move up. lol
I guess I just look at it as changing from a 6x9 shaped grille to a 6" round grille covering a midbass driver won't make a discernible difference. If I was opening up the whole door that's one thing...but I want to put a smaller opening in there. lol

I'll just keep these panels for comps and let JT do the new ones for shows....not like it takes long to swap them out.


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

stereo_luver said:


> Welcome to Modified.
> 
> Chuck


Actually I kinda am thinking I'll just jump all the way to ModEx. Screw it. I've been doing this nearly a decade. If I can't give the big boys at least a little competition by now, I should retire. I never win anyway but a 2nd or 3rd place in ModEx would be a lot sweeter than another 2nd or 3rd in Street or Mod. No offense to Street and Mod competitors just that I've been running there since '05. May be time to finally move on.


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## audiophile25 (Oct 5, 2008)

MacLeod said:


> Actually I kinda am thinking I'll just jump all the way to ModEx. Screw it. I've been doing this nearly a decade. If I can't give the big boys at least a little competition by now, I should retire. I never win anyway but a 2nd or 3rd place in ModEx would be a lot sweeter than another 2nd or 3rd in Street or Mod. No offense to Street and Mod competitors just that I've been running there since '05. May be time to finally move on.


No offense taken sir.


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

MacLeod said:


> Actually I kinda am thinking I'll just jump all the way to ModEx. Screw it. I've been doing this nearly a decade. If I can't give the big boys at least a little competition by now, I should retire. I never win anyway but a 2nd or 3rd place in ModEx would be a lot sweeter than another 2nd or 3rd in Street or Mod. No offense to Street and Mod competitors just that I've been running there since '05. May be time to finally move on.


Totally OFFENDED!

Chuck


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

That's OK. You were the one Mod guy I was trying to offend.


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## diy.phil (May 23, 2011)

MacLeod said:


> Actually I kinda am thinking I'll just jump all the way to ModEx. Screw it. I've been doing this nearly a decade. If I can't give the big boys at least a little competition by now, I should retire. I never win anyway but a 2nd or 3rd place in ModEx would be a lot sweeter than another 2nd or 3rd in Street or Mod. No offense to Street and Mod competitors just that I've been running there since '05. May be time to finally move on.


lol I just hit +rep on you stepping out of your comfort zone, facing your fear, reinventing yourself, taking risks.... all the good stuff. best wishes!!


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

The factory location mistake in Stock, Street and Mod Street is being addressed, also the page numbers are being fixed.

I have made the recommendation about the 16 bands of EQ to include mono or L&R as well as stating that bass boost on amps does not count towards the cumulative total.

As far as the grille issue on door panels, if the grille is a cosmetic change only it shouldn't bump your class. Send an email to the Rules and Ethics Committee, if they agree that your mod is only cosmetic then your good for the year. Have your issue documented at your first show after the first time it is judged. MECA strongly desires to have "cool" cars and trucks at the events and I think it is safe to say that would not want to push you away from competing for a cosmetic mod.

If you read rule 14 in the opening of SQL, it says that once a decision is made it is now good for the year. At least try to get into Street and if the judge disagrees it has to go to the R&E committee for final decision.

"14. Any rule interpretations made during an event will be recorded on a log sheet. This sheet as well as an email will be passed to the MECA R&E Committee to give final approval of any issues that arise which may not be clearly identified in the rules. The MECA R&E Committee will have 5 days to make a final decision regarding any rule interpretations; decisions made will be final for the remainder of the season."


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

Navy Chief said:


> The factory location mistake in Stock, Street and Mod Street is being addressed, also the page numbers are being fixed.
> 
> I have made the recommendation about the 16 bands of EQ to include mono or L&R as well as stating that bass boost on amps does not count towards the cumulative total.


What mistake? The cutting of 1/2" of metal?!?! You mean I dont have to go to Mod? Woohoo! I take back all that stuff I said about bettering myself and all that. Street here I come. :laugh:



> As far as the grille issue on door panels, if the grille is a cosmetic change only it shouldn't bump your class. Send an email to the Rules and Ethics Committee, if they agree that your mod is only cosmetic then your good for the year. Have your issue documented at your first show after the first time it is judged. MECA strongly desires to have "cool" cars and trucks at the events and I think it is safe to say that would not want to push you away from competing for a cosmetic mod.


Agreed. If you paint the stock grill then youre fine. You cut it out and replace it with a different grill, youre in Modified.



> If you read rule 14 in the opening of SQL, it says that once a decision is made it is now good for the year. At least try to get into Street and if the judge disagrees it has to go to the R&E committee for final decision.
> 
> "14. Any rule interpretations made during an event will be recorded on a log sheet. This sheet as well as an email will be passed to the MECA R&E Committee to give final approval of any issues that arise which may not be clearly identified in the rules. The MECA R&E Committee will have 5 days to make a final decision regarding any rule interpretations; decisions made will be final for the remainder of the season."


That is awesome!! This is probably the best change this year. This way all rulings from local judges will be quickly reviewed by the R&E guys and have a final ruling sent down quick so nobody is going to multiple shows in the "wrong" class. :rockon:


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Navy Chief said:


> I have made the recommendation about the 16 bands of EQ to include mono or L&R as well as stating that bass boost on amps does not count towards the cumulative total.


Thanks too you and all of the others behind the scenes for taking a look at this. My build will not qualify for stock, but I do have a DEH-80PRS so I had paid close attention to that rule. Hopefully the corrections will head off any confusion presented by the new rule. 

Now... if only I could get them to toss out the rule about the spare tire!


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

MacLeod said:


> What mistake? The cutting of 1/2" of metal?!?! You mean I dont have to go to Mod? Woohoo! I take back all that stuff I said about bettering myself and all that. Street here I come. :laugh:


Unfortunately no, I was referring to the mistake saying you couldn't mount speakers in stock locations. The 1/2" of metal rule was not a mistake, there is a very defined escalation of what can be modified in each class. I hope you understand.



MacLeod said:


> That is awesome!! This is probably the best change this year. This way all rulings from local judges will be quickly reviewed by the R&E guys and have a final ruling sent down quick so nobody is going to multiple shows in the "wrong" class. :rockon:


I pushed really hard for this change, I also think it will make a big difference in making rulings consistent.


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

Navy Chief said:


> Unfortunately no, I was referring to the mistake saying you couldn't mount speakers in stock locations. The 1/2" of metal rule was not a mistake, there is a very defined escalation of what can be modified in each class. I hope you understand.


I think it should depend on the size of the driver and not how much metal to the have to trim. If you replace your factory 6 with a Focal 6 and only have to cut a half inch but I need to cut one inch to replace my factory 6 with that same Focal 6, that shouldn't put me TWO classes ahead of you. Same speakers, same locations, same class. 

That one and the turn off pop penalty are really the only 2 in the whole MECA rule book I take issue with and neither are that big a deal so it's all good.


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## SoundQ SVT (Aug 14, 2013)

WTH! Who kicked me out of Mod Street? I am also getting bumped to Modified like I am reading that a few others are, which also makes me go from SQ2 to SQ2+. Not happy about that at all. Three changes caught me, not the least of which is the requirement that subs be behind the b-pillar to stay in Mod Street. I don't know any other way to take it than a targeted rule. The 1/2" metal cut limit and the speaker size limit for oval openings would have moved me up anyway, but the sub rule I think only affected me as far as I know.

Not happy at all.


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

MacLeod said:


> Agreed. If you paint the stock grill then youre fine. You cut it out and replace it with a different grill, youre in Modified.


Definitely not gonna come to a resolution here...I'll leave it as is and talk with the staff in Fresno on the 22nd about my plan. The grille will be replaced but it will be replaced with a SMALLER grille than stock and it covers a midbass, not a midrange. I could be wrong but I don't see any benefit from using a smaller grille on a lower frequency driver....other than looking better than stock. Whatever the powers that be say will be what I run with....no worries either way.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

SoundQ SVT said:


> WTH! Who kicked me out of Mod Street? I am also getting bumped to Modified like I am reading that a few others are, which also makes me go from SQ2 to SQ2+. Not happy about that at all. Three changes caught me, not the least of which is the requirement that subs be behind the b-pillar to stay in Mod Street. I don't know any other way to take it than a targeted rule. The 1/2" metal cut limit and the speaker size limit for oval openings would have moved me up anyway, but the sub rule I think only affected me as far as I know.
> 
> Not happy at all.


Not to sound like a jerk, but did you actually read the rulebook for last year? The subwoofer rule didn't change from last year. I'm looking at the 2013 rule book. Bullet item #4 in the Requirements states:



> Unless mounted in a factory location, subwoofer(s) must be installed behind the B-pillars.


The 1/2" metal cut rule was/is a street class rule. It didn't specify oval last year though, that is a clarification for this year but seems to be a clarification on cone area that can be replaced.

2013 Rule:


> Factory speaker locations may be trimmed to fit same
> size replacement speaker (cone area). In no case can more than 1/2” of total diameter be removed.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

*"14. Any rule interpretations made during an event will be recorded on a log sheet. This sheet as well as an email will be passed to the MECA R&E Committee to give final approval of any issues that arise which may not be clearly identified in the rules. The MECA R&E Committee will have 5 days to make a final decision regarding any rule interpretations; decisions made will be final for the remainder of the season*

The fact that they hadn't done this in the past has cost them MANY competitors. Its probably a case of too little too late but at least they are seeing the light.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

agreed. that alone is a big improvement


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I don't know how to read this...In Street:

Permitted: 

7. Only factory speaker locations are permitted for speaker upgrades, except for tweeters and subwoofers. Factory speaker locations may be trimmed to fit same size replacement speaker (cone area). In no case can more than .5” of total diameter be removed. Oval speaker locations are the exception. For example a 5x7 speakers can be replaced with a 5’ speakers. Speakers must be mounted in a factory manner. The use of spacers and baffles are permitted.

9. Subwoofers must be installed in the trunk, or rear most storage area of the vehicle. Exception is rules 10, 11 and 12. All subwoofers must be mounted inside of the vehicle.

Not permitted:

9. Installing speakers, (except subwoofers and one pair of tweeters), in factory locations.

19. Subwoofers must be installed in the trunk, or rear most storage area of the vehicle. Exception is rules 10, 11 and 12. All subwoofers must be mounted inside of the vehicle.



So which is it?


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

#9 is pretty funny


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

So I guess Street can't have subs and you can't have speakers located anywhere?

Or what if you installed speakers worse than factory? The permitted rule says for speaker UPGRADES


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

it's funny how replacing a stock grill with something 'cosmetic' is acceptable, but if it helps the speaker sound better it's not acceptable.

how are they going to determine what constitutes cosmetics, vs. what sounds better, they are going to take a measurement of a stock panel and RTA the 'cosmetically improved' one?

some of the rules are just silly.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Where does the miniDSP fit? It runs and is designed to run on 12volts...but not designed for the car, but companies are making/marketing them for the car.


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## DBlevel (Oct 6, 2006)

I see there are a few of the MECA events in the Knoxville and Lebanon, TN area. I'd like to try to make one or two this year. Be interesting to go as a spectator, doubt I would be competing.

Be nice if they'd have one or two in NC!


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## UNBROKEN (Sep 25, 2009)

To be fair rule #12 just says "no door panel modifications"
I assumed this to mean door pods or other fabrication to aim a midrange or something like that?

I'll ask for some clarification in Fresno and go from there. If it were to bump me anywhere above Mod Street I'd just leave it alone.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> Where does the miniDSP fit? It runs and is designed to run on 12volts...but not designed for the car, but companies are making/marketing them for the car.


if it were me I would argue 12v. The company itself offers a 12v model, even though their primary market is not automotive. Something like a Rane or DBX that requires a power supply mod would not qualify. 

I suppose one could further argue that if someone bought a ton of old Rane RPM's, converted them to 12volt and sold them under a business license that would qualify as 12v as well, but that would be really stretching it as that wasn't the intended use.


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## SoundQ SVT (Aug 14, 2013)

pocket5s said:


> Not to sound like a jerk, but did you actually read the rulebook for last year? The subwoofer rule didn't change from last year. I'm looking at the 2013 rule book. Bullet item #4 in the Requirements states:
> 
> 
> 
> > Unless mounted in a factory location, subwoofer(s) must be installed behind the B-pillars.


But that is the point. The "unless mounted in a factory location" allowance has been removed. My 8" subs are in a factory 6x8" speaker location, behind the factory door panel and grille so therefore it was allowed.

And yes, I read the rule book very carefully. I am not a newb to SQ competition.



pocket5s said:


> The 1/2" metal cut rule was/is a street class rule. It didn't specify oval last year though, that is a clarification for this year but seems to be a clarification on cone area that can be replaced.
> 
> 2013 Rule:
> 
> ...


That may have been a street class rule in 2013, but not a Modified Street class rule. Otherwise I would not have been in Modified Street to begin with. The 2013 rules for Modified Street state:


> Stock speaker locations may be modified or altered to accommodate aftermarket drivers.


There is no mention of a 1/2" limitation in that statement in 2013.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Call it an 8" midbass and you're done. lots of people have 8" midbass these days. Besides don't you have 10's in the trunk? On paper there are your subs 

I would fight the .5" rule too. After all they said no class changes were coming...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SoundQ SVT (Aug 14, 2013)

pocket5s said:


> Call it an 8" midbass and you're done. lots of people have 8" midbass these days. Besides don't you have 10's in the trunk? On paper there are your subs
> 
> I would fight the .5" rule too. After all they said no class changes were coming...
> 
> ...


I could call them midbasses that play really, really low (20-80Hz)... but that goes around the spirit of the rule. And I am still subject to the 6x8 = 6.5" inch max round speaker because of the 1/2" rule. 

Also, the two 12" subs in the trunk aren't there at every show because they are never (ok, almost never) on. I run the car on road courses as well and I take the sub box out of the trunk for that. Don't need the excess ~110 lbs holding me back while trying to accelerate down the straight or brake for the corners. I only put them back in for the "big shows" once I take them out for a track day.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

I feel for you then. Personally I think sq2+ should be modex and up, if not extreme and up. There isn't much difference point wise between mod street and modified for the top cars, but generally a big jump going from mod to modex. Not that that is any help when there was supposed to be nothing to change your class and there is...


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

Yeah gonna be another year with 20 people in Modified at finals and 7 in all the rest. Oh well. I've been bitching about that rule for about 5 years now. Maybe eventually I'll wear them down and they'll give in just to shut me up. 

But again, don't sweat it too much. Go back and look at '13 finals and the score. Street, Mod Street and Modified are all the same. 80.1, 80.9 and 80.3. So yeah its a silly rule that doesn't make sense but it's not a deal breaker. If you're good enough to win Street, you're good enough to win Modified.


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## scoobysmak (Jan 31, 2014)

I know I might be one of the few to even look into this but I don't see any Boom&Zoom events scheduled. Do these just pop up out of the blue normally or did I miss something. I would like to see an event like this but at this moment it looks grim.

The other question I might have is probably more event based but do they use 1/4 or 1/8 mile times. That could make a big difference overall.


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## SoundQ SVT (Aug 14, 2013)

MacLeod said:


> But again, don't sweat it too much. Go back and look at '13 finals and the score. Street, Mod Street and Modified are all the same. 80.1, 80.9 and 80.3. So yeah its a silly rule that doesn't make sense but it's not a deal breaker. If you're good enough to win Street, you're good enough to win Modified.


I looked at the scores.... in Mod Street I got 3rd out of 7. My same score in Modified would have put me 16th out of 17. That is a big difference.

My score from SQ2 would have put me in 3rd out of 6(?) for SQ2+ behind Mark and Brian, but I know the scores are not exactly comparable since the judges switched seats for the two classes.


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

SoundQ SVT said:


> I looked at the scores.... in Mod Street I got 3rd out of 7. My same score in Modified would have put me 16th out of 17. That is a big difference.
> 
> My score from SQ2 would have put me in 3rd out of 6(?) for SQ2+ behind Mark and Brian, but I know the scores are not exactly comparable since the judges switched seats for the two classes.


Yeah I guess that's a fair point. Like I said, I've been complaining about it forever. Maybe with enough people bitching it'll finally get done away with.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

What if someone cut something, not using it, and covered it back up?

I had a center channel and cut the top of my dash that was a storage tray, and rather go buy a new dash, say I made a cover for the hole that was there and covered it in some matching interior fabric like suede or vinyl? Is that an automatic bump from same mod street to modex?


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> What if someone cut something, not using it, and covered it back up?
> 
> I had a center channel and cut the top of my dash that was a storage tray, and rather go buy a new dash, say I made a cover for the hole that was there and covered it in some matching interior fabric like suede or vinyl? Is that an automatic bump from same mod street to modex?


Depends on who classifies you. It could be looked at as an improvement on the sound since it is cloth and I'm assuming your dash is vinyl or plastic. It would be best to just get a dash mat and be safe.

Chuck


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Not exactly sure how cloth covered fiberglass is any acoustic improvement...but I know what you are saying.

If I had the funds, I would just buy a new dash and be done with it.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

Ok, potentially stupid question but here it is anyway.
Does MECA send out renewal notices to us in the mail or expect us to renew at the next sanctioned event?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Ok, potentially stupid question but here it is anyway.
> Does MECA send out renewal notices to us in the mail or expect us to renew at the next sanctioned event?
> 
> 
> ...


No snail mail (at least I've never gotten one). You can renew online or at an event


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## MacLeod (Aug 16, 2009)

You can renew at the first show you attend for the year. I think you can renew on their website too but not 100%.


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## The real Subzero (Apr 13, 2010)

you can renew online, or at the show I believe. I had mine set up with paypal automatic payment, so every year it does it Automatically.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

pocket5s said:


> No snail mail (at least I've never gotten one). You can renew online or at an event





MacLeod said:


> You can renew at the first show you attend for the year. I think you can renew on their website too but not 100%.





The real Subzero said:


> you can renew online, or at the show I believe. I had mine set up with paypal automatic payment, so every year it does it Automatically.


Thanks everyone. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Edward Conley (Mar 27, 2014)

Its good thing that new edition is I also want to this edition because i learn many things about the car i have no idea before if you have another source like Facebook account kindly tell me...


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

www.mecacaraudio.com

I think is the answer?


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

KP said:


> www.mecacaraudio.com
> 
> I think is the answer?


guess you phone is broke KP


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

I see you all mentioned that you can renew your membership at the show but what if this is your Rookie year (regardless of Class)? Do you go onlline for that one or its done at your 1st show?

Also, everyone had mentioned that MECA would be bringing out a new CD out but I only see the Chesky CD on their site. Is that what they are going to use for the year? And will there be any other music that can also be used like (Keb Moe or Brian Culbertson), etc?


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

You can sign up at your first show. That is what myself and several others did out in California. I would talk to the promoter at the show about getting a demo disc. I believe they only use the demo disc for judging.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

the official CD is still the Chesky demo disk. there is another one in the works but isn't official yet last I heard.

Supposedly in the rules a judge can use other material IF NOTICE IS GIVEN first, but apparently some judges (so I've heard) are taken that a bit too liberally and randomly using different material. Most judges though stick to the official CD


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

pocket5s said:


> the official CD is still the Chesky demo disk. there is another one in the works but isn't official yet last I heard.
> 
> Supposedly in the rules a judge can use other material IF NOTICE IS GIVEN first, but apparently some judges (so I've heard) are taken that a bit too liberally and randomly using different material. Most judges though stick to the official CD



Actually, the new disc was released in March. We have used it already in a big show (3x event in San Jose) out here in CA and that is the plan for the next big show also (already 20 SQ cars pre-registered) in Riverside on 5/10.

Oh, and proof that the new discs exist.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

That's not fair Richard, you have one of the few copies that made it to the public before they were pulled, AND that technically ISNT the MECA disc, it's the Arc Audio Demo Disc.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Until meca is selling it on their site for competitor consumption, I would have to agree. It shouldn't be the official judging disc until then.


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## SouthSyde (Dec 25, 2006)

chefhow said:


> That's not fair Richard, you have one of the few copies that made it to the public before they were pulled, AND that technically ISNT the MECA disc, it's the Arc Audio Demo Disc.


x2

It says Arc Audio on it! lol


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

Both NorCal and SoCal event directors received 10 copies each of that disc directly from MECA (and the disc does say official MECA SQL CD) and sold it to competitors here in CA, so that is why we decided to use it in the last event (and was announced to be used for the next one). I'll check with the event directors for future comps (and probably coordinate with Steve), but I think the upcoming one since it was already announced that we will be using this disc, it would be unfair to the competitors to change it.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I was told that it wasn't available at this point as were many others out here, its not available thru the MECA website and when I contacted Arc to get a copy I was told they were no longer available.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

chefhow said:


> That's not fair Richard, you have one of the few copies that made it to the public before they were pulled, AND that technically ISNT the MECA disc, it's the Arc Audio Demo Disc.


Pulled?


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Licensing issues


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

chefhow said:


> Licensing issues


Lovely.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## Tsmith (Dec 17, 2008)

It is the new Meca SQ disc. I have one as well. They sold out of them fairly quickly, but should have more very soon. I bought mine at the first show after Spring Break Nationals where it was introduced. I think as long as a judge is using the same disc on all the vehicles, it should not matter what disc they use.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

Just got confirmation from Steve. The disc was NOT pulled. He just ran out. He should have more in 3 weeks time. If interested in getting a copy, have your local event director get a hold of Steve to get copies, or you can email directly at [email protected] to order your copy.


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## tnaudio (Mar 4, 2012)

I have the disc. I bought it at a competition from Steve. The songs are much more enjoyable. There does seem to be a lot of hiss in a lot I the recordings though


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

I guess that's what happens when a region gets forgotten and the website doesn't get updated.


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

Wow all that... and all I did was ask about the disc. Well at least we figure out where the break up was at. So now the rest of us on the East need to catch and get on the same game.

So I take it that music is more modern? What's up what with that "hiss" in the recordings ?


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

To be honest, I'm not sure where the communication breakdown was. CA is not exactly "close" to the heart of MECA...and I have no idea where any of the information about "licensing issues" and the disc getting "pulled" came from...so I can't speak for any of those statements. But it was pretty straightforward to send a quick email to the email address I listed above, and it was cleared right up, so dunno. 

Juan (and for any others that maybe curious), as for your question about the content of the disc, I've used it to judge 10 SQ vehicles so far at a 3x event (as did two other judges), and for the three of us that judged that event, we thought it has its advantages. I'm not sure about the "hiss". I would say some tracks on the old disc weren't exactly hiss free either. 

I think Tim put it best though. So long as the judge is consistent, I think either disc is good. And as Robert pointed out, there is a clause in the rulebook that so long as the competitors are given fair warning, it could be judges choice for music. I may even suggest that for an upcoming comp at our SiS shop nearby.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Looks official to me


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

Thanks Richard and your right about the mixup but hey its clear now. I agree it shouldn't matter what material is used as long as its consistant throughout.

BigRed thank for the cover shot. It does clearly say OFFICIAL. Well at least now I know what I'm looking for. I'm new at all this so I'm not a bit familiar with these artist so it will take some getting used to. Theres always a learning curve somewhere.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

and just how much do these ARC AUDIO disks cost, what are they going for, when and if you can find them?

let me guess, the retail purchase price is on the order form, at MECA dot com, or something like that.

I think they should give these out to EVERY participant that registers for competition, and FREE too, but then, that's just my opinion...

see, the reason is there should be a verifiable, BAR that passes for a judging mark. Judges shouldn't be allowed to just pop in any ol' disc filled with some formulaic design that makes it easy to discern discontinuities in phase relationships or mid-bass nasal tone, unnatural cymbal splash out of hard domes, etc.

I think if it's not in the official disc, then it's not available for use. If Rebecca FREAKIN' Pigeon's voice is a resonant bomb, that's one thing and very useful but a judge coming in with his own bunch of scrappy tracks, I'm not agreeable...

luckily, I'm just a guy with an opinion and not an actual member or sound-off participant giving my time and money to the organization just to be part of the hobby that pits contestants against each other.

because I'd really have something to say, haha...


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

I do not own a copy yet but one of the Sound Team 6 guys had one in Knoxville and gave it a spin. A couple of the tracks changed from the original track listing in 2011 or 2012, when ever it was. Looking forward to giving it a detailed listening.


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## Black Rain (Feb 27, 2011)

Cajunner, I don't agree that they should give it away. The disc were made and time was spend collecting all of the track and ensuring that the CD was at top quality. That requires money. You know there enough struggling artists and as a League that deals with music it wwouldn't be right if they didn't support the artist too. So why cheat the artist or the Engineer. They disc wouldn't cost more than probably $20, just think of it as spending money on your hobby. 

Life ain't Free man.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Black Rain said:


> Cajunner, I don't agree that they should give it away. The disc were made and time was spend collecting all of the track and ensuring that the CD was at top quality. That requires money. You know there enough struggling artists and as a League that deals with music it wwouldn't be right if they didn't support the artist too. So why cheat the artist or the Engineer. They disc wouldn't cost more than probably $20, just think of it as spending money on your hobby.
> 
> Life ain't Free man.


my reasoning is thus:

if the use of this disc results in an unfair advantage due to some competitors having access to it and some who do not, you have an unfair playing field in a competition.

it's all in fun and all that, but some people take competition seriously and strive to become winners.

if they wanted to make the playing field level they would increase the membership fee of the organization, to include the cost of this disc and it would be sent out to all members upon re-upping the ante, at the start of the season.

this would of course, mean that anyone running the organization would have to be on the ball, and have the disc ready in sufficient quantity that they could do this, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I also understand that MECA is a hobby-based organization and affiliation, and does not run itself into rigorous examination of it's judging practices and how each event can be hit or miss, depending on the people involved, there is a lot of leeway to make your participation closer to a guess as to what you'll score, and place in the competition.

That being what it is, I say that at the very least, the judging equipment that can be standardized, such as this disc, should be standardized and that people tuning their cars to achieve good results with this disc, should have their reasonable expectation met, they should be able to rely on this disc as a true measure of their system in competition.

maybe that's clear as mud, I don't know.


I can only see where leaving the judging materials up to the various judges leaves a lot of "interpretation" in the results, so that it can be misconstrued by competitors, or outright abused by complicit judges. I don't want to say that MECA is a biased and inherently unfair competition arena, so I'll defer from making any accusations that this disc was provided to members for a fee or other lucrative bennies as a result, (perhaps sugar cookies? who doesn't like sugar cookies, lol) and simply say that this was overlooked as a potential snag in the fairness purported to be a mainstay in the MECA uprights.

let nobody say I accuse anyone of anything, thanks for entertaining me, lol.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

cajunner said:


> and just how much do these ARC AUDIO disks cost, what are they going for, when and if you can find them?
> 
> let me guess, the retail purchase price is on the order form, at MECA dot com, or something like that.
> 
> ...


That was surprisingly cynical from you.
I see structured organization at the mechanism that brought so many of us car audio hobbiest physically together in friendship which is lightyears better than this cyberworld we all live and play in.
Sure there's rivalries and it's likely I've pissed off some by taking 1st place in stock with a completely stock systems against other's that have actually changed equipment but it's far from the norm.
I can honestly say that MECA and Kimo's events here in Cali have enriched my life with dozens of new friends.
You all know who you are. 


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> That was surprisingly cynical from you.
> 
> I see structured organization at the mechanism that brought so many of us car audio hobbiest physically together in friendship which is lightyears better than this cyberworld we all live and play in.
> 
> ...



There are at least 3 cars I know in CA for stock class this year Bret, so watch out.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> That was surprisingly cynical from you.
> I see structured organization at the mechanism that brought so many of us car audio hobbiest physically together in friendship which is lightyears better than this cyberworld we all live and play in.
> Sure there's rivalries and it's likely I've pissed off some by taking 1st place in stock with a completely stock systems against other's that have actually changed equipment but it's far from the norm.
> I can honestly say that MECA and Kimo's events here in Cali have enriched my life with dozens of new friends.
> ...


perhaps I have been misconstrued.

I am attempting to illuminate why I feel like a test disc, is important.

In the process, I may add some dramatics, I may allow a bit of contestable parts of the convo to creep into the equation.

The apparent laissez-faire attitude in how MECA runs it's rules and regs, is a product of people making nice and not holding friendly feet to the fire.

My role is not to be the friend, but hold the feet, in that friends end up with a better hobby participation, and there is less ambiguity in competition, albeit as friendly and non-competitive as car audio exists in a world defined by winners and losers.

I have seen multiple scenarios of ambiguous determined results, I have seen loose use of judge standing, promotion of the sport by the use of standardized 'tests' to indicate an intent to promote fair play principles, but several times it has been pointed out where the subjective interpretation is preferred by the people who run the organization.

I stand in criticism of this subjective interpretation, as it goes against competition and fair play, it is the manipulation of the masses I rail my tiny little internet black heart against the window pane, to prevent.

see it beating? My dried prune of a cynical thumper, is easily pointed towards as the reason for these criticisms to have merit, as if I'm the reason for an unfair sleight of hand, as if I'm the cause and culprit for why MECA runs itself into the bank on the river of fairness and transparency...


but no, my interest is in illumination, and clearing of a fogged pane's distortions so that everyone can enjoy the view from the bleachers, as I do. My participation in the hobby allows me to have an input, even if my non-member status in the organization does not.


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Papasin, it sounds like that disc of mine might have just gotten more valuable. . Make sure you don't forget it next weekend! 

This being my rookie year in MECA, I'll offer my take. I attended one event last year and one event this year as a spectator. I also had my first competition event this year. In terms of "standardization" of listening content by the judges, I think California has done a good job so far. By involving myself in cyber communities like this one and, more importantly, developing real world relationships by attending get togethers and competitions I was well informed about what content would be used for judging. This also gave me the opportunity to get a copy of the judging material before the competition to get familiar with and to tune my system. 

I view MECA as another opportunity to meet other car audio enthusiasts and make my own system better. The competition is great, but that isn't what it is all about for me. Even so, if I were to show up at a comp and the promoter or judges sprung it on me that they had their own disc to judge by and wouldn't be using the current (or previous) official disc, I would not be happy. Not because I might not score well, but because as a completion league that we PAY for, we've agreed to a set of rules and standards. 

Based on my limited experience though, I don't see this ever being an issue. At least, not in California. And if it did, I know enough of the judges personally now that I would have no problem discussing the issue with them directly.


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## papasin (Jan 24, 2011)

Wow cajunner, if your intent is illumination, you certainly are doing your part to the contrary. Let me enumerate a few things...

1. The MECA rulebook on page 26, bullet 5 states:

"5. The Judge’s competition CD is the “MECA SQL CD” (available March 2014) or The Chesky Ultimate Demonstration Disc. Alternate music tracks may be chosen by SQL Judges as judging criteria. If alternate music will be used at an event, judges should do their best to inform potential competitors early as to which alternate music will be used. Competitors should check with their local event director for information on alternate music selections. Competitor provided USB flash drives or iPods are allowed."

2. Speaking for CA, to my understanding, CA event directors purchased (yes, they have to buy them too) thru MECA 20 copies of the new discs in March (and for rton20s, my understanding is that the event directors still have copies, so yours may not be as valuable as you think  ). We had a competition in Fresno in March. However, since the competitors did not have an opportunity to purchase the new disc beforehand, we (myself, the other two judges, and the event director) all decided that to be fair to the competitors, we would use the older Chesky disc (also note that the new disc is also licensed thru Chesky), but forewarned the competitors that we would use the new disc at the next competition.

3. If your region doesn't have the new disc yet, based on the rules the old disc is fair game. Again, to stress that one disc or the other consistently across that particular competition with appropriate forewarning and availability to those at that competition is the important part. If judges want to use music not part of either disc, there are provisions for that as stated, and so long as appropriately coordinated, I personally feel this keeps things interesting, which brings me to my 4th point.

4. As a competitor myself, I find it more important that my car is tuned for any music, and not any one disc. To know what it is going to be judged against is important for some. Some competitors I judge or compete with don't have copies of either disc, and don't care. I think here in CA we've made every effort to be clear. If folks have concerns, both event directors are very approachable and happy to hear any concerns. But for my daily listening, I don't go around listening to Rebecca Pidgeon all day, nor do I have separate presets for disc 1, disc2, or judge 1, judge 2. My personal goal is for my car to sound good regardless of what music is played on it, and hopefully, should be others.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

and that's fine, papasin.

you take an approach that it would appear, allows judges their free hand at which music is used for competitive purposes, and that they also can switch it up at will, possibly using material that will cause differences between cars to show up, and it maybe keeps the competitors from only tuning for one particular disc.

that's a perspective that may have many proponents, I don't know.

I do know that my personal view is there should be no ambiguity in judging.

The ability to switch listening material in the middle of a competition allows for subjective interpretation, it also could conceivably cause concern among competitors who feel like the one disc, is a less probative effort, in comparison to the other and any selection by a judge that severs the relationship between media that is official, for something 'off-label' that isn't familiar to the competitor, is a possible attempt to exclude a car for whatever purpose. It's an untenable position for a judge to stand on his own judging material and use different criteria for a points score. How is a competitor supposed to interpret that?

What if a judge uses the Chesky #1, for all competitors but one guy, who he pulls out his own mix, and then gives the guy a bunch of low scores?

Does that seem like a working example of competition to you?

I think the fairness should be perceived from both sides of the judge/competitor relationship, to include as few variables as possible so no mis-reads, or evaluation of technique is leading a competitor to believe foul play is happening and no safeguard against it is possible.

One disc, or two? Why would it be okay to introduce a second disc, when several areas of the country are still tuning to the first one, and then what if a judge decides neither disc is suited, and does an entire competition using none of the tracks that competitors will have attempted to tune their cars for a sound quality response?


maybe you value personal interpretation and individuality and the authority position as a potential judge, to not see the potential for bias from a position of bystander looking on.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

All cars should be judged with the same material. If a judge uses "suitcase" as an alternative song for example, ALL cars should be judged with that song. I understand the concern, however I personally would never let that happen at my events. All cars will be judged with the same material. I will say this, if your car sucks with cheeky 1, it will still suck with cheeky 2.


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## Darth SQ (Sep 17, 2010)

cajunner said:


> perhaps I have been misconstrued.
> 
> I am attempting to illuminate why I feel like a test disc, is important.
> 
> ...


Ok I see your point.
In defense of MECA I believe it's just a case of bad timing releasing the cd already after the season started.
I do know we've been waiting on this new demo disc for a number of years now and in a rush to get it out as fast as possible for the 2014 season, it's caused some problems.
The two that come to mind are until very recently, it wasn't readily obtainable to all involved and to the judges by having to have them get up to speed quickly resulting in little to no time to study it's inherit clues that reveal the difference between a good system from an excellent one before the next event.
But it is what it is and in time all this will work itself out.


Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

PPI-ART COLLECTOR said:


> Ok I see your point.
> In defense of MECA I believe it's just a case of bad timing releasing the cd already after the season started.
> I do know we've been waiting on this new demo disc for a number of years now and in a rush to get it out as fast as possible for the 2014 season, it's caused some problems.
> The two that come to mind are until very recently, it wasn't readily obtainable to all involved and to the judges by having to have them get up to speed quickly resulting in little to no time to study it's inherit clues that reveal the difference between a good system from an excellent one before the next event.
> ...


yes, yes, of course. 

this is just friendly banter, among friendly people, about friendly things.

I'm not attempting to draw a black line, I'm not pushing a Pied Piper's tune through a charmed aperture, in hopes of turning the darkness that is our corner of the internet, into a haven for miscreants and villainous souls.

it's a small thing, in a world of small things.

but in a thread about rules, and in defining fairness, I do believe a perspective of fair play in competition should be entertained, even at the dismay or compunction of those defiantly presuming bad humors were aired, and I have been heard.

in the case of oiling a squeaky wheel, those who are reading have brought this to the attention of those who need the attention, and now appropriately attended, I can detach significance, and importance to the effort.


because it is an effort, it's not the fame and the glory that works the gears, it's something less benign...


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Cajunner, 

It seems that you are observing, from the outside, an issue that does not exist. I don't recall anyone claiming that judges changed discs mid-competition at will. As I understand it, there have been two discs used. First the "old" Chesky disc and second the "new" Arc Audio disc. Each has been used with substantial notice to the competitors prior to the competition. 

Where there have been inconsistencies is that some regions have already implemented the new disc and others have not. So long as the same content is being used consistently for a given competition that is all that should matter. SQ judging is subjective to begin with. Judging is based on specific criteria, but each judge is unique in how they interpret what they are hearing. That is what makes multiple judge events much more valuable in determining how well your system actually performs.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

rton20s said:


> Cajunner,
> 
> It seems that you are observing, from the outside, an issue that does not exist. I don't recall anyone claiming that judges changed discs mid-competition at will. As I understand it, there have been two discs used. First the "old" Chesky disc and second the "new" Arc Audio disc. Each has been used with substantial notice to the competitors prior to the competition.
> 
> Where there have been inconsistencies is that some regions have already implemented the new disc and others have not. So long as the same content is being used consistently for a given competition that is all that should matter. SQ judging is subjective to begin with. Judging is based on specific criteria, but each judge is unique in how they interpret what they are hearing. That is what makes multiple judge events much more valuable in determining how well your system actually performs.



in review of the facts, would it be accurate to say that the normal operating procedure of a sound competition is to use a set of tracks that the judges have familiarized themselves with, and can use that familiarity to move from vehicle to vehicle, noting obvious and subtle differences alike?

would it be also accurate to say that with the introduction of the new Chesky, Arc Audio sponsored set of tracks, that two discs are now in play, and the competitor is now no longer certain of testing media?

I don't really follow these things that much, I just like chiming in where I see a potential issue and when it's stated that the judges can use whatever tracks they want to evaluate and score, it's like saying the test has a key with moveable answers, there's no validity.

You know the old punch card template and bubbling in with a no. 2 pencil, right?

well, using different media, or the potential to use different media in an event is just like having the stencil, or template keyed to different answers, and saying they are all correct, or they are all incorrect. The score loses validity, the judging is suspect, any number and manner of insults can be hurled because a standard hasn't been established or maintained.

of course, we're just picking it all apart, it's really just a friendly way to play music loud and have some pastries while people brag about their rides and they just hand out some big trophies at the end, it doesn't matter who gets them, I mean that would be silly to take it personal and expect everyone was even concerned when something like this becomes obvious...


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## SoundQ SVT (Aug 14, 2013)

papasin said:


> Actually, the new disc was released in March. We have used it already in a big show (3x event in San Jose) out here in CA and that is the plan for the next big show also (already 20 SQ cars pre-registered) in Riverside on 5/10.
> 
> Oh, and proof that the new discs exist.


Question: What will be done with this disc now that Arc has pulled their support of MECA? Fred was pretty upset about the Parts Express event as well as another that I couldn't figure out. Will it still be used? I have been to 3 events and have yet to be judged with it, let alone even see one.


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## palldat (Feb 6, 2011)

SoundQ SVT said:


> Question: What will be done with this disc now that Arc has pulled their support of MECA? Fred was pretty upset about the Parts Express event as well as another that I couldn't figure out. Will it still be used? I have been to 3 events and have yet to be judged with it, let alone even see one.


All of the events that I have been apart (2) of have used it.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

palldat said:


> All of the events that I have been apart (2) of have used it.


You are also in California, and those judges got the discs. I asked Stern about Vinny and got a worthless answer (judges can use whatever they want, to paraphrase) but I heard it was going to be the new disc. we'll see.


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

We received the new cd because stern sent an email out to all event coordinators letting them know they are in stock. We purchased 10 CDs and I sold 9 and kept one for competition. My understanding is they are waiting on the next batch.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

BigRed said:


> My understanding is they are waiting on the next batch.


Even with Arc pulling out of MECA they are going to allow them to use the CD?


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## Navy Chief (Jun 14, 2010)

In case anyone missed it the corrected 2014 Rulebook is back up.

http://www.mecacaraudio.com/dnn50/Portals/1/2014_MECA_SQL_Rulebook_July.pdf


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