# SI TM65



## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

Ok, who's running the SI TM 65's and how much power are you running to them, and how do you like them with said power? I'm running 150 watts to each and i can imagine more power. They sound good don't get me wrong, and midbass is good, but they seem a tad inefficient. I'm debating doubling the power and looking to see what the general consensus is concerning these...


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

unfortunately it appears the XBL architecture has limited yet another new product's maximum volume levels...

or it's just clean and someone might consider doing a little testing with source material containing mild distortion to see if that "sounds loud" because the TM65 is likely developing the loudness very cleanly and it isn't being overdriven at 150W input.

after testing shows that they just don't "sound loud" based on distortion levels during normally loud sounding passages, it means one must retrain the brain to accept clean as loud.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

Maybe I should clarify a bit. Volume is good, never complained about volume. I'd like more bass, especially from say 70 to 150. And with most speakers, the lower frequencies need power. Up loud they do well, would like to have more efficientcy. The only way to accomplish this with inefficient speakers is more power. No?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

foreman said:


> Maybe I should clarify a bit. Volume is good, never complained about volume. I'd like more bass, especially from say 70 to 150. And with most speakers, the lower frequencies need power. Up loud they do well, would like to have more efficientcy. The only way to accomplish this with inefficient speakers is more power. No?


Being 89 dB efficient the TM65 is not an "inefficient" speaker unless you're comparing it to pro audio drivers. Your quest seems oposite of most TM65 reviews - every review I've seen say the TM65's almost have too much midbass. What other drivers have you used in the exact same vehicle with the exact same amount of power that have more output at 70 Hz compared to the TM65's?


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## jriggs (Jun 14, 2011)

Just wait for that package that's on its way. That sub does very well playing up to about 150 hz. I ran it at both 100 and 125 hz up to a 5.25" midrange and had no midbass issues. Anyways, kinda off topic, but...


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

Thanks Jason! I just saw your pm. 
Nick, they sound great, and maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly. And I'm not bashing them either. At moderate to higher volumes, they do boogie and put out good punchy bass. But the only way I can get the response I like is at higher volumes. I think what I'm trying to say equates with subwoofers generally. Which is a testament to these drivers. I crave the dynamics, which typically comes with more power. That make any sense? And all I'm asking for is others opinions as to how much power they are running and how they like it.


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## Patrick Bateman (Sep 11, 2006)

foreman said:


> Thanks Jason! I just saw your pm.
> Nick, they sound great, and maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly. And I'm not bashing them either. At moderate to higher volumes, they do boogie and put out good punchy bass. But the only way I can get the response I like is at higher volumes. I think what I'm trying to say equates with subwoofers generally. Which is a testament to these drivers. I crave the dynamics, which typically comes with more power. That make any sense? And all I'm asking for is others opinions as to how much power they are running and how they like it.


This is somethings that's been vexing me lately. I've put a lot of work into lowering the distortion in my projects. I use push-pull to lower second harmonic, I use drivers with a flat BL curve to lower all types of distortion.

And then at some point, you notice that low distortion sounds kinda boring.

If you like the sound of your system LOUD, but it sounds anemic at moderate volumes, it may be that you like the sound of distortion.

And I think that's fairly normal really; there's no real data that shows that people prefer low distortion, and lots of data indicating that distortion is pleasing.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

I don't own any tm65 drivers, but I did a tune for a lady who has them in mostly treated doors in an eg 96 civic hatch. They gave me all I could ever want off a jbl msa1004 stereo so I think 200 rms at 2 ohms? think I scared the hell out of her with how loud I was comfortable playing them so I'm thinking 200 rms is just abour right. No breakup even at blistering levels an they sounded good at low volumes, but I'm used to very low distortion drivers.


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## Arete (Oct 6, 2013)

Electrodynamic said:


> Being 89 dB efficient the TM65 is not an "inefficient" speaker unless you're comparing it to pro audio drivers. Your quest seems oposite of most TM65 reviews - every review I've seen say the TM65's almost have too much midbass. What other drivers have you used in the exact same vehicle with the exact same amount of power that have more output at 70 Hz compared to the TM65's?


Isnt it 89 db sensitivity only if it's wired at 8ohms? Most people run at 4. What then? Not sure what running in series means. What do you get for sensitivity of wired @ 4 ohms. 

Something you mentioned in the average joe review...

"the TM65 with its coils in series to present an 8 Ohm load are spec'd at 89 dB. Sensitivity won't change after break-in because the moving mass won't change and neither will the strength of the motor, but other sound characteristics will change after the TM65's are fully broken-in."

I have heard the XL midbass from the Hertz set and at 70hz they get very loud in the lower registers. They are quite loud overall. I'm looking forward to comparing the TM65s to these drivers. It seems the efficiency is similar. The Hertz aren't rated using the 1 watt/1meter way but the voltage/DB way. It's 93.5. Which likely brings them to around 90 at 1w/1m. 8mm Xmax. What's irritating from the data sheet on the driver is it just says Xmax, it doesn't specific one way linear or 2 way. I'm assuming it's 1 way. I've seen them work. 

It seems that when comparing efficiency with drivers it's never an apples to apples comparison... similar for xmax too.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

Well, i've heard many different 6.5's over the years, to include Eton 7's which were made in west germany and donned the yellow cone which diamond audio would have made for them only black, focal, the old kicker resolution r6's, the list goes on and on. And i have a pretty good handle on what distortion sounds like. I did demo a pair of dynaudio volvo 8 inch mids in the doors, but had to make them temporary as they really didn't fit correctly. However, they were noticeably more efficient at lower volumes and were louder, lower. I understand they were 8's, but they needed less power. SOOOOOo.....i'm stil looking for individuals that will post how much power they have and how they perform with that power. I'm trying to decide if i should up my power or not. I'm not looking for people to defend Nick, or tell me i'm not hearing something or i have an untrained ear. Just simple opinions on what you have running the mids please


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Some questions would be, 


The breaking time period and


What crossing points are being used?


Any EQ levels too high or loudness feature being used?


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

They have at over 10 hours break in time. Maybe more like 20. 
Crossed over at 80hz, 63 seems to bring the sound stage down a tad. 
Eq for 80, 100, 125, and 150 are either flat or + 1 to 1.5


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Fair,

Maybe Lycancatt can share some EQ levels for some of the bass EQ bands since he helped tuned one those sets. Not sure if lowering the EQ levels will help or not. 

I think between 125, 200, 400 Hz they could be flat or lower, if played at high volume levels. 

I have Morels and I keep mine flat and some of those bands below flat for those frequencies and use over 220W per side and I listen to them loud. 

Maybe cross them at 75 or 70 hz if you like more bass? 

What amp is being used?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

Arete said:


> Isnt it 89 db sensitivity only if it's wired at 8ohms? Most people run at 4. What then? Not sure what running in series means. What do you get for sensitivity of wired @ 4 ohms.
> 
> Something you mentioned in the average joe review...
> 
> ...


Exactly unfortunately. It really is a shame that some companies fudge their figures to make their driver look more impressive. We have always used the 1W/1M figure because it is more widely used as the standard in the audio industry. As you pointed out some companies use the 2.8V/1M because it makes their drivers appear more efficient. Also Xmax - is it total linear travel or one-way? Technically Xmax should only be shown as one-way linear travel (whether it is at 70% BL or 82% BL is now up to the mfg to decide what to show or abide by). There have been many companies that fudge Xmax to be total piston stroke instead of one-way linear stroke. Unfortunately some times you have dig deep to find out what is the case. I pointed out the flaw'd spec on a GZ subwoofer recently because they claimed a VERY high Xmax (understood as one-way linear) only to find out they were using the p-p total cone travel as that spec on their main web page...they only showed the true one-way linear number in their detailed product literature. See for yourself HERE where they state 35mm Xmax but then HERE they state that one-way linear travel is 13.5mm.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

That would be great if he or someone would. I'm running a p99rs so my crossover points are limited to 80 or 63. I could probably play with the slope at 80 a bit more to see how that does. I'm running them at 8 ohms and giving them 150 rms each from my arc 1200.6. 








Alrojoca said:


> Fair,
> 
> Maybe Lycancatt can share some EQ levels for some of the bass EQ bands since he helped tuned one those sets. Not sure if lowering the EQ levels will help or not.
> 
> ...


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

foreman said:


> That would be great if he or someone would. I'm running a p99rs so my crossover points are limited to 80 or 63. I could probably play with the slope at 80 a bit more to see how that does. I'm running them at 8 ohms and giving them 150 rms each from my arc 1200.6.


Nice amp. 
Mmm, 
Why not run it with the drivers wired for 2 ohms instead? 

Looks like that amp gives you options for [email protected] I would try a 12db slope or [email protected] ohms at a 24db slope

Maybe the amp does no like the 8 ohm load.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

It is a nice amp  however, it makes150 watts at 2, 4, or 8 ohms. Only way for me to put 300 watts to them is bringing the amp. Which I don't mind doing, but then I need another amp to power my xtant coaxes in the dash.


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

Mine aren't hooked up yet, so I cannot say. I'm hopeful that 200W from an ARC SE4200 at with VC's in parallel for 2Ohms will be adequate.
I know some Class-D amps output the same power at 8Ohms as at 4, but as a general rule if you double the load you get 1/2 the power. So I'm not sure you're giving 'em a full 150. 
Perhaps you're using them for subs or some such, but won't channels 5&6 give you 300WPC into a 2Ohm load, non-bridged? That may be overboard, but if you set the gains well and are careful not to crank it I think that could solve your problem.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

True, I have yet to try running them in parallel which is probably the easiest to do to check results. 
You are correct. Channels 5 and 6 are bridged running my esotar 12 sub. 
I imagine that SE will be more than adequate


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Ha ha, my amp was rated at 100Wx4 @ 4 and 2 ohms on the manual and for some foreign countries, 75Wx4

It turned out to be double the 100W at 2 ohms. 


I would just wire the coils at 2 ohms and try them there. Another thing could be the music source or song played, CD, MP3 through USB?


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

The xdi amp have been tested and they produced the same power at 2&4 ohm.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

Thanks. I just got off the phone with Arc and they said that too lol. Boner on my part.  
Now to wire these things in series and get double the power....can't wait!


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

To get a 2 ohm load from two 4 ohm coils I think you wire them in parallel like with the attached picture


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## Arete (Oct 6, 2013)

foreman said:


> Thanks. I just got off the phone with Arc and they said that too lol. Boner on my part.
> Now to wire these things in series and get double the power....can't wait!


I can't wait to hear what they extra power does. Please report back.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

Ok....so when i'm wrong i'm wrong..and i was wrong!! I thought the manual said same power at 8 ohms, but that is only channel 5 and 6...So rewired the mids and yep...much better! Had to turn down the gain. Mids are much more...there...More midbass, more volume. Have to play with the EQ a bit but definitely better. Apologies to all...and thanks Nick.


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## WhiteL02 (Jul 25, 2014)

Good to hear.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Ha ha !


I looked at the amps specs and scratched my head wondering why they have different power ratings and options for the main channels.

complicated and not hard to screw up selecting the channels for the intended purpose


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

Haha yes, was a very easy screw up. But I'm starting to appreciate them much more than I did. Much more bass up front feeling and easier to blend the sub with less sub actually. Again, some day when I'm able to rta it and play with the eq more I'm sure I'll be extremely satisfied. It's pretty good right now though.


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

So glad to hear it!


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## Arete (Oct 6, 2013)

foreman said:


> Haha yes, was a very easy screw up. But I'm starting to appreciate them much more than I did. Much more bass up front feeling and easier to blend the sub with less sub actually. Again, some day when I'm able to rta it and play with the eq more I'm sure I'll be extremely satisfied. It's pretty good right now though.


So just so I'm clear on what you did did you wire at 2 ohms? How much power are they seeing now or at least available?


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

Going off specs, just wire the 2 voice coils on each speaker in parallel. On the XDI1200.6 should be good for the full 150WPC.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Removed, irrelevant issue


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

So in answer to the original questions. I have them and send a rated 150 watts to them. I have them at 80hz high pass with a 12db slope and the source unit is a Pioneer P99.

My gripe with the TM is they are very laid back at lower volumes but really sing at higher ones. They dont like a 63hz high pass when you push them and they will protest the 150 watts (probably closer to 180) so I stay with the 80hz.
They have more than enough kick from 80-150hz. More than a Focal K2 Power, Hertz ML1600, Illusion C6, Boston Pro, Infinity Kappa or Dayton Classic in an IB door mount using the same amp.
The Focal, Illusion and Hertz were more enjoyable at low volumes though.

As for inefficiency, hardly. Mine are attenuated 4db below my tweeters and the tweeters get half the power already. I am running mine at 2 ohms.


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## Arete (Oct 6, 2013)

Do you think they could handle more power then that?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Limitations limitations, it is sad that to really enjoy or get the most from these, only a 63 and 80 HZ high pass option is available from all head units, including the 8 ch $1k plus P99 pioneer, same for the LP options either 2 or 2.5khz. Nothing in between, unless a more advanced crossover option or DSP is available.

80 HZ with 12db slope seems to be the limited sweet spot, still with limitations even for a 2 way since it would be nice to have the 2.2, 2.4 kHz options for the LP


Maybe 63 HZ HP with a 24 db slope or steeper? I guess we really need to hear from guys using more advanced DSP 's with less limitations using more power crossed lower and using steeper slopes.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Not a problem for anyone with a MS-A1004 eh?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Ha ha, Nope, very happy to have more flexibility to get the most with any driver.

It's hard to compare drivers with limited options and with more options, more fair judgements and comparisons can be made since other drivers may shine in certain areas where others can't


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

Thanks Lasersvt, that's exactly what I was looking for. My amp is putting out or at least rated for 150 watts per channel. Sounds pretty good as I'm tweaking, but as previously stated they really don't do well under 80, and in my car at least pull the sound stage very low at 63hz. They sound much better at low volume with 150 watts then they did with 75 watts and understandably. I'm getting a little break up at higher volumes now but I'm slowly backing the gain down to see how and when it goes away. I'd love to try a set of revelators if anyone has a used set they want to part with pm me.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

*Re: SI TM65 (Joy)*

In the last month I've made the following mods to my system ...

*Starting point *
OEM HU + MS-8 + Alpine MRV-F300 driving Alpine SPS-610c components front as active 2-way + MS-8 driving side Alpine SPS-610c passive + Alpine PWE-S8 powered sub under the front seat.

*Step 1*
Installed 2x MS-A1004 and MS-A5001 in preparation for speaker upgrades (but ran several weeks with the SPS-610c's on the new 1004 amps).

*Step 2* (two days ago)
Installed 3-way active front = HAT L1v2 + L3v2 + *SI TM65*.
Installed SI BM mkIV in 0.5 F^3 box in rear.

Still tweaking xo's and levels but no question the *TM65*'s on the MS-1004 and BM mkIV on the MS-5001 (all at 2 Ohms) are stellar upgrades from my starting point.

I'm sure *not* having any problem getting all the volume I need out of the *TM65* on the MS-A1004. Keeping the output level conservative at this point on the MS-A5001 but the BM mkIV sounds great, too.

More tweaking in progress to optimize amp output levels and I'm going to be experimenting with xo's on the MS-8 awhile to find the best blending for everything. I intentionally chose to go front 3-way with speaker components having a fair bit of response range overlap so I have some 'room' to find the sweet-spots for xo's.

Bottom line .... I'm *very happy *with the *TM65* (and BM mkIV and the HATs) and only expect things to get even better with a bit of fine-tuning. Seems that the southern states (North Carolina for SI and Georgia for HAT) have become my 'go-to' region for speakers and I can sure live with that 

*Special thanks *to *Nick at SI* and *Huckleberry Sound* (another Southern Boy) on this forum for making it possible with the great pre-sale, closeout and demo hook-ups for all the speakers at great prices I could manage


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

How are you running the TM65 on the MS-A1004? 8 ohm bridged or 2 ohm stereo with a pair of amp channels left over?


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

Arete said:


> Do you think they could handle more power then that?


I really dont think so. I can get breakup in th 800-1500 range at the same levels where the hertz ML1600 and Focal K2 would still maintain composure.


Alrojoca said:


> Limitations limitations, it is sad that to really enjoy or get the most from these, only a 63 and 80 HZ high pass option is available from all head units, including the 8 ch $1k plus P99 pioneer, same for the LP options either 2 or 2.5khz. Nothing in between, unless a more advanced crossover option or DSP is available.
> 
> 80 HZ with 12db slope seems to be the limited sweet spot, still with limitations even for a 2 way since it would be nice to have the 2.2, 2.4 kHz options for the LP
> 
> ...


I too think that a 2200hz low pass would be really good with these. I have tried 2k with 6 all the way to 36db slopes and it leaves too much of a hole until my tweeter can safely take over. I have also run 63hz high pass with various slopes and still have issues when I try and push them. 80hz they seem happiest in my particular application.


foreman said:


> Thanks Lasersvt, that's exactly what I was looking for. My amp is putting out or at least rated for 150 watts per channel. Sounds pretty good as I'm tweaking, but as previously stated they really don't do well under 80, and in my car at least pull the sound stage very low at 63hz. They sound much better at low volume with 150 watts then they did with 75 watts and understandably. I'm getting a little break up at higher volumes now but I'm slowly backing the gain down to see how and when it goes away. I'd love to try a set of revelators if anyone has a used set they want to part with pm me.


I will be trying them with the Revelators this week and I bet that helps quite a bit.
When my P99 did its auto EQ thing it crossed the SIs over at 1600hz as well as the tweeters. It did a 63hz high pass on the SIs as well. It sounded wonderful at lower volumes. Like really really great. Problem was I knew I could not turn it up as 1600hz HP would kill my tweeters if I threw more than 20 watts at them and I also knew the SIs would bottom out with the volume anywhere over 32.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

Bayboy said:


> How are you running the TM65 on the MS-A1004? 8 ohm bridged or 2 ohm stereo with a pair of amp channels left over?


Running the TM65's at 2 Ohm on two channels of MS-A1004. All 8 of the MS-A1004 channels are used, here's the 'map' :

(MS-1 = MS-A1004 UNIT *1*; MS-2 = MS-A1004 UNIT *2*; MS-5 = MS-A5001)

MS-8 Ch 1&2 > MS-1 Ch 1&2 > Front Hi (L1v2 tweeters)
MS-8 Ch 3&4 > MS-1 Ch 3&4 > Front Mid (L3v2 midrange)
MS-8 Ch 5&6 > MS-2 Ch 3&4 > Side (SPS-610c components)

MS-8 Ch 7&8 > MS-5 Ch 1&2 input
> MS-5 pass-though output > MS-2 Ch 1&2 input > MS-2 Ch 1&2 output > Front Lo (*TM65 @ 2 Ohms* Midbass)
>MS-5 Ch 1 amplified output > Sub (BM mkIV @ 2 Ohms)

The xo arrangement is described in a bit more detail here http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/2525249-post9.html

Summary - all 8 channels used on MS-8; all 8 channels used on two MS-A1004's; total 11 speakers with 3-way front active, 2-way sides passive (seen as 1-way by MS-8) and subwoofer routed through MS-8.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Really need to have at least 200 W or more using steeper slopes than 12 db and crossing below 70 Hz for these, I would think.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

FordEscape said:


> Running the TM65's at 2 Ohm on two channels of MS-A1004. All 8 of the MS-A1004 channels are used, here's the 'map' :
> 
> (MS-1 = MS-A1004 UNIT *1*; MS-2 = MS-A1004 UNIT *2*; MS-5 = MS-A5001)
> 
> ...


:laugh: I was lost as heck until I figured out what you were trying to convey. 3-way front+rears. But I see now


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Alrojoca said:


> Really need to have at least 200 W or more using steeper slopes than 12 db and crossing below 70 Hz for these, I would think.



Meh.... don't fall prey to that. Everything depends & changes on that handy dial everyone loves to touch so much.... everything.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

Bayboy said:


> :laugh: I was lost as heck until I figured out what you were trying to convey. 3-way front+rears. But I see now


Yeah, sorry, it's all straightforward 'till ya introduce getting that sub on the MS-8 along with 3-way front + side (rear). It's a lot easier to 'visualize' on the flow-diagrams I used to figure it all out and guide my system hook-up.

But for purposes of this thread yes, each TM65 DVC is 2 Ohm wired to 1 MS-A1004 channel.

I'm waiting for devilery of a UMIK-1 mic which I'll use with REW to set the SPL of each individual speaker to a target dB as described here http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/2525481-post11097.html

At that time I'll use a RMS DVM and clamp ammeter to measure V & A and calculate watts (or at least V*A) to each speaker with pink noise at listening levels. Not sure the number will be useful for much other than my curiosity, but I don't have an oscilloscope and more sophisticated tools.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Bayboy said:


> Meh.... don't fall prey to that. Everything depends & changes on that handy dial everyone loves to touch so much.... everything.



steeper slopes for SQ, shallow slopes for SPL, steeper slopes allow crossing lower without stressing the driver. To get more output, more power is better with steeper slopes. Just saying since when I started using 24 slopes with my mids they lacked output as compared to a 12 db slope, same for the sub, and I ended up settling with the shallow slope for the sub.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I use all -24db slopes. Done that since being able to years ago. I would switch up every now & then trying different things, but would wind up going right back to -24 and working issues out with the EQ. Just was less hassle having to worry about adding phase issues. 

There's so many things that can come into play with the issues you talk about and in the end it will wind up the same. How much control do you have at your tips to solve it. When you're limited you just live with it or break down and move on & upward. I can tell you one thing though.... while you like that deck, you should really get your hands on L/R EQ once to see the difference.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Maybe with the next generation of Pioneer Decks, unless I get my hands on an 80Prs with the akward hard to navigate menu, a P99 would be nice but no clue if it is similar to the 80Prs in that regard. I have not read much info about it or taken the time to find out. Or maybe the next DD head units will offer separate EQ per ch.


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## Arete (Oct 6, 2013)

Electrodynamic said:


> Exactly unfortunately. It really is a shame that some companies fudge their figures to make their driver look more impressive. We have always used the 1W/1M figure because it is more widely used as the standard in the audio industry. As you pointed out some companies use the 2.8V/1M because it makes their drivers appear more efficient. Also Xmax - is it total linear travel or one-way? Technically Xmax should only be shown as one-way linear travel (whether it is at 70% BL or 82% BL is now up to the mfg to decide what to show or abide by). There have been many companies that fudge Xmax to be total piston stroke instead of one-way linear stroke. Unfortunately some times you have dig deep to find out what is the case. I pointed out the flaw'd spec on a GZ subwoofer recently because they claimed a VERY high Xmax (understood as one-way linear) only to find out they were using the p-p total cone travel as that spec on their main web page...they only showed the true one-way linear number in their detailed product literature. See for yourself HERE where they state 35mm Xmax but then HERE they state that one-way linear travel is 13.5mm.


Wow! That is likely one of the most misleading xmax ratings I've seen. The thing is with a sub I don't know why they would do this. Some people want a sub with much less excursion. This kind of thing really pushes me away from buying from a company. Hybrid audio uses the 2 way excursion way of expressing the Xmax. I believe the Clarus midbass is 14mm. 

The TM65 is 9mm one way correct? As the designer for the speakers where would you suggest the crossover points be with the sub and tweeter IF I want to crank the volume and throw some power on em. 

Thanks.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Alrojoca said:


> Maybe with the next generation of Pioneer Decks, unless I get my hands on an 80Prs with the akward hard to navigate menu, a P99 would be nice but no clue if it is similar to the 80Prs in that regard. I have not read much info about it or taken the time to find out. Or maybe the next DD head units will offer separate EQ per ch.


You don't like separate dsp?


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

Bayboy said:


> You don't like separate dsp?


I like what they do, I just don't like the process and extra things needed to make them do what they do


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Alrojoca said:


> I like what they do, I just don't like the process and extra things needed to make them do what they do



I concur, but no free lunches my friend. The tuning process can be much of a headache, but only if you're seeking perfection right out of the gate. Your best friend is an RTA & mic. Even before having time alignment, that tool alone made a big difference with crossover points & EQ.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm just finally taking the plunge. Just downloaded audio tools and bought a Dayton imm-6 Mic. Hope I can get better than what I have, which is actually pretty satisfying right now.


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## strakele (Mar 2, 2009)

LaserSVT said:


> So in answer to the original questions. I have them and send a rated 150 watts to them. I have them at 80hz high pass with a 12db slope and the source unit is a Pioneer P99.
> 
> My gripe with the TM is they are very laid back at lower volumes but really sing at higher ones. They dont like a 63hz high pass when you push them and they will protest the 150 watts (probably closer to 180) so I stay with the 80hz.
> They have more than enough kick from 80-150hz. More than a Focal K2 Power, Hertz ML1600, Illusion C6, Boston Pro, Infinity Kappa or Dayton Classic in an IB door mount using the same amp.
> ...


When you say they protest higher power at lower crossover points, what do you mean? Bottoming out? Distortion? Breakup? Just wondering, since modeling suggests they'll take up to 275W with a 60Hz/12dB high pass while staying at or below xmax.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

I think he's finding out what that shallow cone angle and paper composition is all about.

If he says those other drivers sound better at 800-1.5Khz then it's probably the same thing as saying the TM65 reaches it's distortion limits from cone breakup and having that shallow geometry, with a spider landing up near the cone causing acoustic interference. Adding more power on top just because you limited the bass by raising the high pass, doesn't give you a more cleanly playing driver, "every time"...

I know it's hard to trust someone who doesn't have anything to gain by saying the driver has limitations, but that's what I do. I also trust the designer of the product when he says things like "what other driver can throw that far and still mount in 2.3" of depth" and that's important, but some compromises are inevitable with shallow mount architecture, there's no getting around it.


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## LaserSVT (Feb 1, 2009)

strakele said:


> When you say they protest higher power at lower crossover points, what do you mean? Bottoming out? Distortion? Breakup? Just wondering, since modeling suggests they'll take up to 275W with a 60Hz/12dB high pass while staying at or below xmax.


With 150 watts at my disposal and long before my P99 clips if I have a 63hz high pass and am listening to a song thats heavy in the 60-100hz range they will audibly protest by first loosing definition in the midrange and bottom out (I assume, I have made them pop 7 times) but I can go significantly higher if crossed over at 80hz and they still have good output at 50hz when I turn the sub off. They stay clean and composed for several more numbers on the volume.

Now to the flip side. I also have a TM65 in a .4 cubic foot box thats tuned to ..... I forget what its tuned to that has a 150 watt amp (Klipsch) and is hooked to my computer. I have never heard it bottom out and I have no subsonic filter. It will distort when pushed but no pop. It has enough bass to vibrate the entire house but its only 1200 square feet pier/beam.


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## foreman (Apr 18, 2007)

Lazer, I see a bit of what you mean. I have mine at 80hz with 6db and the midrange does start to break up at higher volumes, however that could very well be an eq issue. I'm working on that. Where in Texas are you?


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

cajunner said:


> *I think he's finding out what that shallow cone angle and paper composition is all abou*t.
> 
> If he says those other drivers sound better at 800-1.5Khz then it's probably the same thing as saying the TM65 reaches it's distortion limits from cone breakup and having that shallow geometry, with a spider landing up near the cone causing acoustic interference. Adding more power on top just because you limited the bass by raising the high pass, doesn't give you a more cleanly playing driver, "every time"...
> 
> I know it's hard to trust someone who doesn't have anything to gain by saying the driver has limitations, but that's what I do. I also trust the designer of the product when he says things like "what other driver can throw that far and still mount in 2.3" of depth" and that's important, but some compromises are inevitable with shallow mount architecture, there's no getting around it.


I know that your assumptions are once again wrong from the bold part of your post. I also know that your assumptions are erroenous and that for someone who believed, and posted as if it were fact, that BL symmetry comes from an equal thickness top plate and backplate which I showed with FEM data to be wrong. Having said the latter, TM65's have a flat FR from ~40 Hz up to 2,500 Hz. Where is the dip or bad spot in the below FR within the target bandwidth with a resolution of 1/96'th / octave?


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## ZaiLH (Apr 26, 2015)

Played Bloodhound Gang - You Must Die, unfortunately the speaker took it literately:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-qKJ1gx7rg

Anyone experienced similar? 

Mailed Nick and will send it to him when they're back open in a few weeks and see what he thinks.

Build quality and sound of this speaker is superb. Im using p99 with [email protected] from amp. Crossover I used the ones from p99 autotune, 80-500hz.


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## ZaiLH (Apr 26, 2015)

hell, even with only one speaker popping these are impressive


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## tjswarbrick (Nov 27, 2013)

ZaiLH said:


> Played Bloodhound Gang - You Must Die, unfortunately the speaker took it literately:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-qKJ1gx7rg
> 
> ...


I'm unfamiliar with the song. That amusical "snapping" sound?
Was it run down to 40Hz free-air like that? That will generally limit power handling compared to sealed or even IB.
But I'm just speculating at this point. I have seen the free-air full-excursion test Nick put the BM MkIV through, and I have not hooked my TM65's up to anything yet.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

ZaiLH said:


> Played Bloodhound Gang - You Must Die, unfortunately the speaker took it literately:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-qKJ1gx7rg
> 
> ...


Hmmmm.... sounds familiar but diagnosis of the cause requires more than just listening. We all could speculate, but speculation won't help as much as working with Nick to get the issue resolved.


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## 1fishman (Dec 22, 2012)

ZaiLH said:


> Played Bloodhound Gang - You Must Die, unfortunately the speaker took it literately:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-qKJ1gx7rg
> 
> ...


One of mine did the exact same thing when i was doing a very brief listening. i was in a hurry when i was doing that. i was going to double check to make sure i had them wire correctly. Is that speaker in series or parallel?


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## ZaiLH (Apr 26, 2015)

tjswarbrick said:


> I'm unfamiliar with the song. That amusical "snapping" sound?
> Was it run down to 40Hz free-air like that? That will generally limit power handling compared to sealed or even IB.
> But I'm just speculating at this point. I have seen the free-air full-excursion test Nick put the BM MkIV through, and I have not hooked my TM65's up to anything yet.


Should be 80-500hz, edited. And yes, i took it out to make sure it looked alright and thats when i did video. The popping/clipping came at same volume IB in my door on this song.



1fishman said:


> One of mine did the exact same thing when i was doing a brief listening.
> Let me know what you find out.


Sure! They're apparently closed for a few weeks now and on webpage it says 2-4weeks minimum turnaround time on issues so might take a while before i get any proper feedback.

Interesting you had similar experience, let me know anything you come across! I had them running in parallel for 2ohm's load.


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## ZaiLH (Apr 26, 2015)

Bayboy said:


> Hmmmm.... sounds familiar but diagnosis of the cause requires more than just listening. We all could speculate, but speculation won't help as much as working with Nick to get the issue resolved.


agree, just want to share experience with other owners.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

1fishman said:


> One of mine did the exact same thing when i was doing a very brief listening. i was in a hurry when i was doing that. i was going to double check to make sure i had them wire correctly. Is that speaker in series or parallel?


So what was the outcome on yours?


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

I have mine crossed at 80 hz and 1 khz wired to 2 ohms with each getting ~125 watts. They seem to work well like this for me. I tried them briefly crossed at 63 hz and was amazed at the amount of bass they put out. If I didn't listen to a lot of bass heavy music I would probably would have left them at 63 hz.


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

ZaiLH said:


> agree, just want to share experience with other owners.


Although I'm curious myself to the cause and probably need to test the pair I have as well, I still would exercise caution as some others use such as an opportunity to stir the flames. Past readings show its best to get with nick before going other routes.


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## ZaiLH (Apr 26, 2015)

Bayboy said:


> Although I'm curious myself to the cause and probably need to test the pair I have as well, I still would exercise caution as some others use such as an opportunity to stir the flames. Past readings show its best to get with nick before going other routes.


We can't let trolls etc stop us from talking about the gear we buy! :laugh: 

How is it possible you have these DISCONNECTED? I want to see pics and hear impressions of other ppls installs so i can get maximum out of mine


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

ZaiLH said:


> We can't let trolls etc stop us from talking about the gear we buy! :laugh:
> 
> How is it possible you have these DISCONNECTED? I want to see pics and hear impressions of other ppls installs so i can get maximum out of mine



My sig is a mere parody despite being an actual partial list of gear I have at hand. It more or less represents the state of torment I'm in as I await my own decision on what vehicle to drive. Whether it be the one I'm already in or one that I wish I could attain (under my own terms), the gear _is_ going in something. My other vehicle only stands to have upgraded door drivers & add one of the processors all of which is already stored up. I have not installed or tested the TM65 & BM MKIV sub. The KAXBLTWT is the last piece to the puzzle of options to arrive. Hopefully by then I'll have made a decision.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> I know that your assumptions are once again wrong from the bold part of your post. I also know that your assumptions are erroenous and that for someone who believed, and posted as if it were fact, that BL symmetry comes from an equal thickness top plate and backplate which I showed with FEM data to be wrong. Having said the latter, TM65's have a flat FR from ~40 Hz up to 2,500 Hz. Where is the dip or bad spot in the below FR within the target bandwidth with a resolution of 1/96'th / octave?


please refresh, so everyone can see how you've humbled me, exactly where I stated as fact, an equal thickness top plate and back plate makes BL symmetrical?

I think you have inferred something in my post that was not there. IIRC, I believe I stated that if you made the back plate thinner, it would move the BL curve, and by that, I mean it would alter the field of flux based on the amount of steel on one side of the gap being changed.

I know you can manipulate the field forward and back, and all sorts of ways to do it using different steels or how you placed your Faraday rings, where the coil lines up is especially heinous on XBL, due to the design centering on it being centered, etc. BUT...

if you must believe I said something in order for you to make it so, it's no big deal to me.

I was trying to understand something, and I am sure you answered whatever question it was with expertise commensurate with your station, Electrodynamic...

so about this new wrinkle.

The people are discovering that at hog-tying volumes the TM65 has limits, and the first thing to go is (I assume) the intelligibility of the vocals which is likely due to (my speculation, no harm, just a logic-centered deduction) a cone angle that cannot sustain the power input without deforming. Is this a fact? Heck if I know, but one guy said the Hertz can play cleaner in the midrange where the TM65 is struggling. Others have now stated that at low levels the speaker isn't doing it right. That FR graph is beautiful right up to that notch around 2350 hz, which I imagine is caused by some anomaly in the impedance at 1175 hz, but that's pure speculation, haha... NOT for retail sale, YMMV, and all that jazz. Maybe it's just cancellation from the motor's huge, flat plane of a top plate, and the cone angle is near parallel, making a return echo into the cone, obvious?

I'm no speaker designer but I like to look at things and your speakers are things. I think a lot of the elegance of design details come from repeated errors and fixing those, with later editions and improvements that may not be intuitive at the outset...


anyways, you can trust me to say what I think and when I'm wrong I like to be shown how it is, but politely, as I try to be polite. If you make an assumption from something I've put into a thought/post, and that assumption is later found to be incorrect, politely is how I'd do it...


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## Electrodynamic (Nov 27, 2007)

cajunner said:


> please refresh, so everyone can see how you've humbled me, exactly where I stated as fact, an equal thickness top plate and back plate makes BL symmetrical?
> 
> I think you have inferred something in my post that was not there. IIRC, I believe I stated that if you made the back plate thinner, it would move the BL curve, and by that, I mean it would alter the field of flux based on the amount of steel on one side of the gap being changed.
> 
> ...


I'm just going to go to bed and not bite your bait. If members of the forum are so inclined they can do a simple search to see your continuous erroneous posts over the duration of your tenure here on DIYMA. You can say what you want but what you say may be / is usually wrong and stated as being fact.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

Electrodynamic said:


> I'm just going to go to bed and not bite your bait. If members of the forum are so inclined they can do a simple search to see your continuous erroneous posts over the duration of your tenure here on DIYMA. You can say what you want but what you say may be / is usually wrong and stated as being fact.


bite my "bait"?

you put the words in my mouth, let's see if you can match them up at this later date.

I remember you having difficulties understanding my previous post, and I remember you not understanding, or even trying to understand my post because you were so sure, so dead set on putting me in my place, you made the mistake of not reading carefully before posting.


and hey, I've done it too. Nothing to get ashamed of, we're all human and make mistakes from time to time.

if you can't even muster a defense for throwing bad juju on the board, and back up your accusations with a simple posting of the facts, as you say I stated them, then you are not being polite or even civil for that matter.


but I guess that's okay huh? you're the big time custom speaker builder and I'm a nobody so anyone that wants to keep reading things you post about SI products, will side with you so the little information stream keeps coming...

but that doesn't mean you're right, it just means you're popular. And that's okay too. You dangle your bait of "it's too hard on the internets, I'm gonna take my ball and go home if people don't let me post whatever I want" and you know that's a fact. You've done it several times now. And contrary to whatever you might attempt to post as a rebuttal if you do take the time to re-read my statements on BL symmetry and your posts I was responding to, other than the truth of it, which I wasn't stating as fact, just as how I understood it, contrary to that, I can go back (if they haven't been edited) and find statements by you where you say you'd stop posting.

What's funny is that even when you get all huffy about your product design, and take it personal when someone says something that doesn't flatter the choices you make in designing speakers, and that person is not being personal...

you take it personal!

that's funny.

the internets is not a place to take it personal, even if it appears to be so.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

Not to fan the flames but I wanted to bring this thread back up. I'm installing the TM65's and KAX tweeters in an MS3 very soon. Nick, love that FR graph, that helps me understand a lot. 

cajunner, where's your speaker website? 













OK that was a bit of smack but really, let's give Nick credit on making something special. I'm looking forward to trying these babies out.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

fourthmeal said:


> ..... let's give Nick credit on making something special. I'm looking forward to trying these babies out.


+1, with passage of time and tunes can't say enough how still happy I am with these speakers.

Bet you're gonna love 'em, too.

A bit OT but thanks for all the SYNC related and other info you shared via PM .... the door-frame body plug vs through the OEM door wiring plug and the Monoprice cable tips, among others, really helped me get a clean install together for my Escape. Much appreciated, Mr fourthmeal !


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## rxonmymind (Sep 7, 2010)

For those of you looking to tune these TM65 a good LOOOONG 7 minute tune that has a lot of good midbass 
Artist: George Duke
Title: From dawn till dusk
Genre: Slow & smooth jazz

A very mellow tune with a great mids mixed with some high tings and synthesizer. It'll give you plenty if time to help dial in eq and what not. In fact I turned off my sub and let then 6x9 subwoofers take over while my mids & highs blended in beautifully. PLENTY of bass.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

I went ahead and put an order in for a pair myself, given the latest news. Did NOT want to miss out but also thought it might help Nick out in his next endeavor, out of respect.


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## kmbkk (Jun 11, 2011)

fourthmeal said:


> I went ahead and put an order in for a pair myself, given the latest news. Did NOT want to miss out but also thought it might help Nick out in his next endeavor, out of respect.


I did the same. I'm not sure when I'll install them, but couldn't pass up a chance to get a pair and help out Nick. I just hope Jacob produces the MK V as close to Nick's vision as possible.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

FordEscape said:


> +1, with passage of time and tunes can't say enough how still happy I am with these speakers.
> 
> Bet you're gonna love 'em, too.
> 
> A bit OT but thanks for all the SYNC related and other info you shared via PM .... the door-frame body plug vs through the OEM door wiring plug and the Monoprice cable tips, among others, really helped me get a clean install together for my Escape. Much appreciated, Mr fourthmeal !



Oh and you're welcome!


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Patrick Bateman said:


> This is somethings that's been vexing me lately. I've put a lot of work into lowering the distortion in my projects. I use push-pull to lower second harmonic, I use drivers with a flat BL curve to lower all types of distortion.
> 
> And then at some point, you notice that low distortion sounds kinda boring.
> 
> ...


I'm guilty. I like distortion at certian frequencies to give an over all perception of loudness. My latest speakers play clean and I catch myself instinctively tuning in distortion though the speakers measure plenty loud and have good detail. To combat this I forced myself to listen at lower volume levels for a week or so and that seemed to remidy the situation unless I've been drinking. Thank god for presets...


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

fourthmeal said:


> Not to fan the flames but I wanted to bring this thread back up. I'm installing the TM65's and KAX tweeters in an MS3 very soon. Nick, love that FR graph, that helps me understand a lot.
> 
> *cajunner, where's your speaker website? *
> 
> ...


just saw this.

if you feel I was being harsh towards someone who has repeatedly stated what I've said was wrong, that I'm usually wrong and that I state things as fact, (what is that, I mean as long as we're nitpicking my posts, what exactly does that mean, if I post a thought, like anyone else for me "it's as fact" is kind of confusing, but whatever) then maybe I'm being defensive, just a little bit.

I'm not any different than most anyone else here, I'm motivated by getting to the truth and if several people *admit/complain/discuss/vent/explain* that they are finding a speaker to have issues, whatever issues they happen to be, I like to explore the possibilities and understand what exactly is happening.

I might be in the market to buy a set of speakers and now that they've dropped back down into a "comfort zone" I set for myself, it's even more imperative that I don't waste my money on something that I ultimately will find fault with later on because I didn't do enough research.

this sensitivity I have towards putting money out there, probably doesn't exist for most people here, judging by how many people have now ordered the TM65's after the new price reset, but for me it was and will remain a point of contention. How that resistance to buying based on cost, becomes an arguing point for the person selling the speakers, (and it has been argued... and forms the basis for a statement like "I make 5 bucks per driver in profit" which seems preposterous to me, but whatever, again) is a process where someone believes I am wrong to post my reluctance? Again, being blamed for something that isn't applicable once again, is a bit of a letdown. I may be the obtuse one for not realizing that you can't say anything critical, let alone bad even with others saying it, if you happen to have "cajunner" as the screen name. 

anyways, the man has stated he's getting out of direct sales because of stress, but underneath all I see is his admission he's had to price his products too low for him to make the kind of money he wants.

and that's not my fault. If his speakers are extremely expensive to make compared to other speakers, then he should have just taken what the market would bear instead of trying to compete on price with speakers that cost less to produce.

right?


the big neo magnet is about the only thing separating his speakers cost-wise, from something similar by several other companies, and I don't see them making this same complaint, possibly because they accept economies of scale and also sell more drivers than SI, but even so...

going with the realization that the speaker business is too tough, even with successful products and a reasonably loyal fan base, because of an illness just makes me sad as an explanation for wanting to close the part of the business that DIYMA is most affected by, and saying it's because of low profits...

well, the fact that one of the better raw speaker companies who tried to deliver the product most have wanted since XBL became ubiquitous, or if not ubiquitous, synonymous with better sound because everyone wants a mid bass that can wang in the doors...

is now selectively closing a part of his business dealing with customers, is a negative for the community I feel a part of, as there are not enough innovative and gutsy speaker manufacturers doing it the way SI does it, so that makes me sad no matter what the reasoning behind it.

this post is going on way too long, but the takeaway is I think it was unnecessary to call me out that way, just because I dig into the reasons for why various products do or don't meet specifications, and base some of my "conclusions" on various reports by members here, who are not speaker designers or manufacture either...

but perhaps I enjoy a bit of respectability when someone has to make it personal with rude comments and insinuations. I don't feel like that was reciprocal, and if someone were to show me how it was that I injured with words, that would be more purposeful and results oriented, than what was stated here.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I want some midbass that can Wang in the doors!


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## brumledb (Feb 2, 2015)

I got a fever, and the only prescription is more MIDBASS!


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

But man, if you have a problem with Nick, you guys should probably just talk it out man to man or something. All of this posturing sucks the life out of ... this.

edit:
Also.. are you in this business? Have you designed, built, and sold your own speakers before?

To me it seems like someone who's not educated in the aspects of speaker design is trying to educate someone who has. And to me, that seems pretty damn wrong. Which is why I asked, where's your website where you sell speakers, so we can see what you make?

I don't make speakers, personally. I buy them and then give my assessment of how they worked for me, or didn't. But I don't tell someone how to build them. Seems pretty dumb to do so, considering I know nothing about it. 

If you are taking this personally, you are probably looking at this differently than most.



cajunner said:


> just saw this.
> 
> if you feel I was being harsh towards someone who has repeatedly stated what I've said was wrong, that I'm usually wrong and that I state things as fact, (what is that, I mean as long as we're nitpicking my posts, what exactly does that mean, if I post a thought, like anyone else for me "it's as fact" is kind of confusing, but whatever) then maybe I'm being defensive, just a little bit.
> 
> ...


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

fourthmeal said:


> But man, if you have a problem with Nick, you guys should probably just talk it out man to man or something. All of this posturing sucks the life out of ... this.
> 
> edit:
> Also.. are you in this business? Have you designed, built, and sold your own speakers before?
> ...


show me where I told Nick how to build his speakers?

show me where I've told anyone how to build anything?

I can show you where someone distorted my thoughts and produced an irrational response to some questions I had, which I thought was pretty much using their heightened status as a "speaker builder" to bully me so I would stop asking questions, but nowhere that I can recall, me specifically telling anyone how to do their job.

and I know it's tedious but once you've been subjected to dismissal, not because your questions have no merit, but because the person chose to lash out as a defense mechanism in order not to explain or answer, then follows you around the board saying derogatory things about you in posts as a harassment, outside of the board rules and it's accepted, because he's a "respected" manufacturer...

you forget that the person attacking you is 'special' and all.


and you seem to believe like others, that I should have to be selling my own speakers to engage? How is that any sort of scale, should anyone interested in speaker design have to be currently active in the industry or else they're poo?

that's stupid and it's not the first time that's been used as leverage. 

Leveraging poo, seems counterproductive to me. I don't know...

but since you're involved now, let's hear it. Where is YOUR speakers, huh? This perspective of being a speaker expert or else you don't have anything of value to add to the convo, is not a stable platform.

You calling me out for not having speakers on the market is about as sensible as me calling you out for the same thing, it's just poo.

so go ahead, if it's worth your time. Find the posts where I told Electrodynamic how to make speakers, that will be pretty significant, I'd think. I don't remember doing it myself, but if you are dead sure that I've done that, I'm sure it won't be hard to produce results. Here, let me give you an example:

If I suggested that a different motor topology is normally more sensitive than XBL, and am actually asking if this matters in a roundabout way...

I shouldn't be attacked as if I don't know anything, and then when it is claimed there are 99 db @ 1 watt sensitivity XBL woofers as a rebuttal, and when I asked where I can buy these woofers, no list of available drivers...

anyways it appears that asking for information about speakers is a hit-miss proposition. Some designers go into detail to explain their answers to these engineering questions, and some go after those asking questions with irrational and misplaced accusations and insinuations, but appear as long as someone is kissing their ass, to enjoy their online advertising by way of posting here. Now it seems it's quitting time, and indirectly accuses the DIYMA crowd of not paying him enough to keep making car audio product. And says his big subs are selling well, so he's going to keep making those, because you know, I guess that those home audio guys have the money he's asking... it's entertaining, if it weren't kind of sad on some levels.

so there's something for you to read, fourthmeal, not that it makes any difference or matters.


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## mwmkravchenko (Oct 6, 2009)

I can do what you guys are lusting after.

But, it will cost in the neighborhood of $400 a piece.

About 13mm of X-max, 56mm or about 2 3/16" deep.

Flat cone, custom surround.

If there is enough interest you guys start a thread, give me a heads up and I'll support it.

Custom design by request is a definite possibility.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

Sorry if I sound like a broken record but I'm trying to work out the best HPF/slope value for my TM65s. I have each driver wired at 2 ohms powered by two channels from a Mosconi AS300.2. 

I've read comments where people have the HPF set at 80Hz/12dB slope and others say they use 63Hz/12dB. I initially had my TM65s crossed at 70Hz/24 and I'm now trialling them at 63Hz/24. At 63Hz/24 they actually have quite a bit more output and they sound quite clean on most songs. On other songs I'm trying to work out if they're losing a bit of control or its just a badly recorded song.

Please note, I'm using these TM65s purely as a Midbass driver (63Hz to 400Hz), so I would like to know how low everyone is now playing their TM65s at?


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## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

Probably depends on the vehicle. I have mine crossed at 100hz @ -24db. They will handle below what I have them crossed at, but the output is a wash down there in my doors so it's useless for me to do so. They're quite strong in the 200hz range so maybe that needs cleaning up a bit in your situation.


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## Beckerson1 (Jul 3, 2012)

Bayboy said:


> Probably depends on the vehicle. I have mine crossed at 100hz @ -24db. They will handle below what I have them crossed at, but the output is a wash down there in my doors so it's useless for me to do so. They're quite strong in the 200hz range so maybe that needs cleaning up a bit in your situation.


Highly depends on the environment you have them in. I agree with Bayboy I have mine crossed at 50hz BUT I'm also sealed running up to 250hz.


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## mechatron (Sep 26, 2013)

Thanks guys. Great advice about it being highly dependant on the vehicle type and environment. In my car the doors are sealed with BAM on the inside skin and the outside


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## SO20thCentury (Sep 18, 2014)

Lycancatt said:


> I don't own any tm65 drivers, but I did a tune for a lady who has them in mostly treated doors in an eg 96 civic hatch. They gave me all I could ever want off a jbl msa1004 stereo so I think 200 rms at 2 ohms? think I scared the hell out of her with how loud I was comfortable playing them so I'm thinking 200 rms is just abour right. No breakup even at blistering levels an they sounded good at low volumes, but I'm used to very low distortion drivers.


This was over a year ago and still stands. I regularly have the volume about 47 out of 60 but now with the KAXBLTWTs in and the Whispers out I can go full volume without ear pain. epper: I don't hear any popping or break-up and don't think it's bottoming out like LazerSVT describes. I don't keep it at full very long because they'd be getting the full 200 watts apiece and I love them too much to push it. 
Bottom is 63Hz (gave a better kick than 80)/18, top is 1.25k/12. Doors are:







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[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]

well deadened with CLD, CCF, MLV, butyl rope and acoustic thinsulate like the whole rest of the car.


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