# New IASCA CDs



## cmusic

Yesterday I got in the new IASCA CDs and I spent a good portion of last night listening to them. There are two CDs, one called the Evaluation Disc and the other the Entertainment Disc. The Evaluation Disc is the one that will be used for judging and the Entertainment Disc is the full length musical tracks from the Evaluation Disc. The musical tracks are from different recording studios but have been mastered extremely well for these two disks.

The Evaluation Disc is very much like previous IASCA Competition discs going back to the mid '90s. The Tonal Accuracy/Spectral Balance, Soundstage, and Imaging sections of the disks has three excellent musical tracks each. The tracks include a wide verity of music types from classical to (what I would consider to be) alternative hip-hop. The quality of the recordings are definitely audiophile grade. The liner booklet includes detailed stage maps of each song. 

One of the biggest changes I noticed was the absence of the 7 drumbeats across the soundstage. The drumbeats were controversial because they were focused on one frequency range and its harmonics. You could have the drumbeats laid out perfect across your soundstage but the imaging could still be incorrect for instruments of different frequency ranges. Also some judges would just listen to the drumbeats and not the musical tracks if they were in a hurry to get their judging done.

Now we get track 18, which has a man speaking, a bass guitar, claves, chimes, tambourine, tubular bells, and clapping in 5 locations across the soundstage. All these sounds cover the audible frequency range down to around 30 Hz and up to 20 KHz. This is a much more revealing technical track than the drumbeats ever was. Not only is the frequency range being tested much wider but also the tonality and separation of each sound in its correct location will be evaluated. 

Overall the new IASCA CDs are a must for every car-audiophile that wants to make their system better even if they don't have any plans of competing. You don't have to be an IASCA member to buy one. The two disks are $19.95 plus shipping. NEW IASCA Sound Quality Reference CD set |Store | IASCA Worldwide, Inc.

And as a side, the new MECA "Trantric Tuning" competition CD is awesome as well. The CD contains several excellently recorded musical tracks from Chesky Records. Chesky Records is one of the best audiophile recording companies in business today and is known for their natural sound. The CD has very challenging music selections that will expose strengths and weaknesses in every system. The CD is $15 for MECA members and $20 (plus shipping) for non MECA members. Products – MECA – Mobile Electronics Competition Association


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## probillygun

I just got a click n ship notification from IASCA that they are sending me something. I'm hoping its this new disc...


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## fullergoku

Any chance they will make the IASCA and MECA disc downloadable?


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## High Resolution Audio

Thanks for the link......Just ordered a set.


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## pocket5s

fullergoku said:


> Any chance they will make the IASCA and MECA disc downloadable?


probably a zero chance of that happening. 

I should be getting mine today. I do appreciate how iasca has the liner notes. Looking forward to seeing/hearing what their music choices are.


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## brumledb

cmusic said:


> Now we get track 18, which has a man speaking, a bass guitar, claves, chimes, tambourine, tubular bells, and clapping in 5 locations across the soundstage. All these sounds cover the audible frequency range down to around 30 Hz and up to 20 KHz. This is a much more revealing technical track than the drumbeats ever was. Not only is the frequency range being tested much wider but also the tonality and separation of each sound in its correct location will be evaluated.
> 
> [/url]


That description sounds very similar to the imaging track on the Emma 2012 cd. I ordered a set as well. Thanks.


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## SoundQ SVT

I received my copy a week ago and like the new selections too. Unfortunately there seems to be a problem with one track that makes it unusable for its intended purpose. The zero bit track has some bad noise in it. To verify it wasn't my system I played the zero bit tracks from four other CDs and all were quiet. But this new disc has a bad noise floor and a buzz in the zero bit track. I informed Moe about it.


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## MB2008LTZ

I just ordered this set...Thanks for the FYI


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## lowcel

SoundQ SVT said:


> I received my copy a week ago and like the new selections too. Unfortunately there seems to be a problem with one track that makes it unusable for its intended purpose. The zero bit track has some bad noise in it. To verify it wasn't my system I played the zero bit tracks from four other CDs and all were quiet. But this new disc has a bad noise floor and a buzz in the zero bit track. I informed Moe about it.


I am glad you said that. It had me pretty concerned the first time I listened to it.


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## soundstreamer

SoundQ SVT said:


> I received my copy a week ago and like the new selections too. Unfortunately there seems to be a problem with one track that makes it unusable for its intended purpose. The zero bit track has some bad noise in it. To verify it wasn't my system I played the zero bit tracks from four other CDs and all were quiet. But this new disc has a bad noise floor and a buzz in the zero bit track. I informed Moe about it.


That track worried me as well. I do have a bit of background noise right now but man that track made it sound way worse. Still do need to get to the bottom of my background sound though.


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## High Resolution Audio

I would like to comment on the new IASCA CD. My system is different than most because I have a CENTER LISTENING seat and my listening position is equidistant from all drivers. 

I listened to the entire CD except for linearity and noise floor tracks. 

Here are my observations:

1. The recordings are much bigger than the old CD ( meaning the sound stage is insanely wide and insanely deep compared to the old CD )

2. The imaging is 100% perfect on the positional track. Left is dead left, center is exact center, right is dead right......... but most importantly left of center is exactly 1/2 way between center and left and right of center is exactly 1/2 way between center and right. 

With the old CD, the drum beat positioning track was off as the left side was crowded and the right side was spread out. Very strange.


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## chefhow

High Resolution Audio said:


> I would like to comment on the new IASCA CD. My system is different than most because I have a CENTER LISTENING seat and my listening position is equidistant from all drivers.
> 
> I listened to the entire CD except for linearity and noise floor tracks.
> 
> Here are my observations:
> 
> 1. The recordings are much bigger than the old CD ( meaning the sound stage is insanely wide and insanely deep compared to the old CD )
> 
> 2. The imaging is 100% perfect on the positional track. Left is dead left, center is exact center, right is dead right......... but most importantly left of center is exactly 1/2 way between center and left and right of center is exactly 1/2 way between center and right.
> 
> With the old CD, the drum beat positioning track was off as the left side was crowded and the right side was spread out. Very strange.



Actually the positioning track is skewed to the right, you may want to check your settings. This has been tested, verified and then retested and reverified.

The drum track however was evenly distributed, that is undisputed and has over 10 years of proven use to back it up.


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## ErinH

High Resolution Audio said:


> 2. The imaging is 100% perfect on the positional track. Left is dead left, center is exact center, right is dead right......... but most importantly left of center is exactly 1/2 way between center and left and right of center is exactly 1/2 way between center and right.


That is not correct for the "5 Positional Music Track". 

Left is all left. LC is a smidge right of LC. Center is a smidge right of center. RC is RC. Right is all right.

When I say a smidge, I'd say about 10%. So what I mean is, left center is actually biased to the right of LC about 10%. Same for the 'center' portion of the track. 


You can verify this yourself in Audacity by viewing the channel meters. I've seen it evidenced by other software means.


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## pocket5s

Chef and Erin are correct. The positions mentioned are off to the right. This was verified by the judges and measured in software. 

The 7 drum track was not crowded on the left, however that recording was also flawed because far right had some left channel information. Same for far left as I recall. That can also be verified in software. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## High Resolution Audio

chefhow said:


> Actually the positioning track is skewed to the right, you may want to check your settings. This has been tested, verified and then retested and reverified.
> 
> The drum track however was evenly distributed, that is undisputed and has over 10 years of proven use to back it up.


I don't know who did the testing and retesting, but I would have to argue those test results were flawed. 

My educated guess for flawed testing is due to the fact that the testing was probably done from the drivers seat which obviously is not in the perfect center position of the vehicle nor equidistant from all drivers which is going to throw results off. 

The different widths of vehicles and aspect ratio of drivers seat to speaker width/distance is going to vary from vehicle to vehicle. 

My system is a reference quality system. My listening position is in the very center of the vehicle in the perfect triangle centered between all drivers within a 1/16" tolerance. 

I can attest that the recording of the positioning track on the new IASCA CD is flawless.

Anyone that gets different results is because the measurements were done from a position that is non centered. 

Closing statement. The recording of the new IASCA CD positioning track is perfect.

That does not mean that in every vehicle the positioning locations on the sound stage will be where they should. These locations will differ in each vehicle due to a multitude of variables. 

Mainly the listening position in relation to center line of vehicle as well as the ratio of listening position to overall speaker placement width. Other variables come into play like dispersion and other factors, but these are the main ones. 

A good analogy would be similar to parallax error with vision.


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## pocket5s

The measurements were done in software. There was no listening position. It analyzed the track itself. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR

High Resolution Audio said:


> I don't know who did the testing and retesting, but I would have to argue those test results were flawed.
> 
> My educated guess for flawed testing is due to the fact that the testing was probably done from the drivers seat which obviously is not in the perfect center position of the vehicle nor equidistant from all drivers which is going to throw results off.
> 
> The different widths of vehicles and aspect ratio of drivers seat to speaker width/distance is going to vary from vehicle to vehicle.
> 
> My system is a reference quality system. My listening position is in the very center of the vehicle in the perfect triangle centered between all drivers within a 1/16" tolerance.
> 
> I can attest that the recording of the positioning track on the new IASCA CD is flawless.
> 
> Anyone that gets different results is because the measurements were done from a position that is non centered.
> 
> Closing statement. The recording of the new IASCA CD positioning track is perfect.
> 
> That does not mean that in every vehicle the positioning locations on the sound stage will be where they should. These locations will differ in each vehicle due to a multitude of variables.
> 
> Mainly the listening position in relation to center line of vehicle as well as the ratio of listening position to overall speaker placement width. Other variables come into play like dispersion and other factors, but these are the main ones.
> 
> A good analogy would be similar to parallax error with vision.


verified with software, not ears. look at the track in audacity.


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## lowcel

Does everyone at least agree that the zero bit track is noisy?


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## SoundQ SVT

High Resolution Audio said:


> I don't know who did the testing and retesting, but I would have to argue those test results were flawed.
> 
> My educated guess for flawed testing is due to the fact that the testing was probably done from the drivers seat which obviously is not in the perfect center position of the vehicle nor equidistant from all drivers which is going to throw results off.


The issue was discovered while listening by judges at the Championship last weekend, but the proof was not done with listening at all. It was played through and measured by a software that illustrated exactly where the image information was occurring. There is an image of the screen with the results that has been shared and match what others are saying. LC and C are both skewed slightly to the right.

If you are hearing things perfectly positioned, then your system is just a little off in those two areas.


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## SoundQ SVT

lowcel said:


> Does everyone at least agree that the zero bit track is noisy?


Oh goodness yes.


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## SkizeR

lowcel said:


> Does everyone at least agree that the zero bit track is noisy?


from what i was told the whole cd has a 74db noise floor.. not sure if thats true or not though. seems like this disk was a slight fail


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## High Resolution Audio

SoundQ SVT said:


> The issue was discovered while listening by judges at the Championship last weekend, but the proof was not done with listening at all. It was played through and measured by a software that illustrated exactly where the image information was occurring. There is an image of the screen with the results that has been shared and match what others are saying. LC and C are both skewed slightly to the right.
> 
> If you are hearing things perfectly positioned, then your system is just a little off in those two areas.


I will have to give it a re-listen.


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## pocket5s

There you go. Look at the center only pic and the one with lc, c and rc you will see lc is slightly center biased. 

Case closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ErinH

Badabing.


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## High Resolution Audio

pocket5s said:


> There you go. Look at the center only pic and the one with lc, c and rc you will see lc is slightly center biased.
> 
> Case closed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you for taking the time to post those photos. I am very curious to take another listen. My impressions will follow.


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## chefhow

High Resolution Audio said:


> Thank you for taking the time to post those photos. I am very curious to take another listen. My impressions will follow.




Your impressions may lead you to retune your reference vehicle. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OldNewb

Does anyone here use the Sheffield labs CDs to tune? I know it's a older one but still VERY helpful


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## ryanr7386

Scribed


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## High Resolution Audio

chefhow said:


> Your impressions may lead you to retune your reference vehicle.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just got done listening to the imaging disk carefully. To me, it seams that the left of center, center, as well as right of center are all skewed to the right. 

According to your audacity chart, right of center is suppose to be correct, but I do not find that the case.

It seems like right of center is 1/2 way between the skewed right center and right rather than physically between vehicle center and right drivers.

I adjusted volume to the left one and still was off to the right.

I adjusted volume two to the left and imaging seemed correct.


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## cmusic

SkizeR said:


> from what i was told the whole cd has a 74db noise floor.. not sure if thats true or not though. seems like this disk was a slight fail


I know some of the older IASCA CDs had a S/N ratio of about 70 dB. On the track where the music fades to 0 bits the music would stop at -70dB. On the disk used in 2003 and in the system I was competing with at the time, the noise gate used in the studio could be heard clicking in at 1:17, the time point where music should be heard to. I did not have a noise gate in my system. The click was recorded on the CD. I could also hear the click when listening to the CD with a home CD player and my Grado headphones. I had a few judges say they had never heard the noise gate click in any other system and some actually deducted points for it on my score sheet. I guess I just had my gain structure adjusted too well for the IASCA disk and had a system S/N ratio higher than 70 dB. 



OldNewb said:


> Does anyone here use the Sheffield labs CDs to tune? I know it's a older one but still VERY helpful


Are you talking about the 1995 IASCA competition CD that Sheffield Labs produced? They also made a second "setup" disk that has a lot of great tuning tracks on it. I have both the 1995 and 1997 versions of the setup disk, with the only differences being all the music on the 1995 disk was from Sheffield Labs and the 1997 disk having different music from other labels. I've got both disks copied to FLAC on my home computer.


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## chefhow

High Resolution Audio said:


> I just got done listening to the imaging disk carefully. To me, it seams that the left of center, center, as well as right of center are all skewed to the right.
> 
> According to your audacity chart, right of center is suppose to be correct, but I do not find that the case.
> 
> It seems like right of center is 1/2 way between the skewed right center and right rather than physically between vehicle center and right drivers.
> 
> I adjusted volume to the left one and still was off to the right.
> 
> I adjusted volume two to the left and imaging seemed correct.



No offense but I don't think your vehicle is correct if you thought the incorrect track was spot on to begin with until proven otherwise.


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## OldNewb

cmusic said:


> I know some of the older IASCA CDs had a S/N ratio of about 70 dB. On the track where the music fades to 0 bits the music would stop at -70dB. On the disk used in 2003 and in the system I was competing with at the time, the noise gate used in the studio could be heard clicking in at 1:17, the time point where music should be heard to. I did not have a noise gate in my system. The click was recorded on the CD. I could also hear the click when listening to the CD with a home CD player and my Grado headphones. I had a few judges say they had never heard the noise gate click in any other system and some actually deducted points for it on my score sheet. I guess I just had my gain structure adjusted too well for the IASCA disk and had a system S/N ratio higher than 70 dB.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the 1995 IASCA competition CD that Sheffield Labs produced? They also made a second "setup" disk that has a lot of great tuning tracks on it. I have both the 1995 and 1997 versions of the setup disk, with the only differences being all the music on the 1995 disk was from Sheffield Labs and the 1997 disk having different music from other labels. I've got both disks copied to FLAC on my home computer.


It's called "my disc"


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## High Resolution Audio

chefhow said:


> No offense but I don't think your vehicle is correct if you thought the incorrect track was spot on to begin with until proven otherwise.


Well, comparing the new disks imaging tracks to the old disks drum imaging tracks, there was quite an improvement. 

I didn't notice that the images were shifted right, because first time round, I was so FOCUSED on even SPACING ( since the old tracks were spaced so unevenly). 

On the old drum tracks, I found left of center too close to left and right of center too close to right, as I do have a very wide stage an the spacing issues stood out to me.

As far as my vehicle being correct, no offense taken. It was operator error in this instance. But I'm sure there is always room for more precise tuning.


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## bbfoto

Bringing this one back up to the top...

For everyone who has purchased the newest *2016 IASCA Sound Quality Reference CD Set*, was anything ever done to fix Track #18, the *"5 Positional Music Track"*, and also Track #26, the Zero Bit *"Noise Floor Test"*?

If so, how were the New Tracks or CD redistributed? I've purchased this CD for $19.95 + over $10 for Shipping, but I have never received any notification or warning regarding the potential problem of using these specific tracks for evaluation. Have IASCA members received an official notice?

Have the CDs that are for sale at the above link been corrected, or do they still have the flawed tracks?

If the Individual Tracks or the CD itself have not been fixed, what are the Judges and Competitors doing during a comp to test these attributes of the system?

Just curious. I'd like to receive the corrected tracks if they are available. 

TIA

B.B.



Side Note:

The original "7 Snare Drum Beats" staging track from the *1997 IASCA Competition CD* actually does cover a fairly wide frequency range if you consider the harmonics that are captured in the recording in addition to the fundamental tones of the top and bottom drum heads near the 170Hz/240Hz and 450Hz/620Hz areas. But yes, as previously mentioned, there is definitely some information in the Opposite Channels of each of the Far Right and Far Left drum beats respectively that really shouldn't be there.

For reference, in the attached photos below are images of the CD Cover and a rough Screen Shot of the Frequency Spectrum taken from the "Center Beat" of the _7 Snare Drum Track_ (Track #13) of that 1997 IASCA CD. You can view higher resolution versions of these images by clicking the link above and downloading the files.

While the _7 Snare Drum Track_ does cover a very wide range of frequencies, I do prefer the new track with the multiple, individual instruments to cover each frequency range. The original snare drum track is lacking anything below roughly 100Hz, though you could argue that the imaging cues for any instruments below that frequency range are determined or localized by the instrument's upper harmonics.

.


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## pocket5s

All the tracks are flawed on the new cd. In a nutshell if you were to take your balance knob and turn it one click to the right, that's what's wrong (as explained to me). 

The same person who explained it is working with the engineers to fix it and new cds were supposed to be on the way. 

That was a month or so ago. No idea where that stands


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bbfoto

pocket5s said:


> All the tracks are flawed on the new cd. In a nutshell if you were to take your balance knob and turn it one click to the right, that's what's wrong (as explained to me).
> 
> The same person who explained it is working with the engineers to fix it and new cds were supposed to be on the way.
> 
> That was a month or so ago. No idea where that stands



Robert, thanks for the quick response. Was the actual L/R level discrepancy in Decibels revealed? I can analyze it in my DAW, but just wondering if that was already stated?

If so, it would be a reasonably simple fix to correct it myself in Audacity or StudioOne Pro DAW software. Then just replace the newer Zero Bit track with the old one from the 1997 CD or create a new one.

Cheers


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## pocket5s

I was told .6db shift to the right. The zero bit was addressed as well as I recall. Something about a dithering plugin or some such 


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## Hammer1

I started a thread on the new disk but received no answers. Has anyone experienced a problem with disk 1 when imported into iTunes. It will play fine except when my iPad is using the lighting out or Bluetooth. It like it skips but if just playing through iPads speakers it is fine


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## bbfoto

pocket5s said:


> I was told .6db shift to the right. The zero bit was addressed as well as I recall. Something about a dithering plugin or some such


Thanks. Ahhh, the noise in the 0-Bit track from a snafu in the application of Dither at final conversion/mastering makes sense.

And the 0.6dB differential seems about right. I measured a Delta that was an average 0.72dB higher amplitude in the Right Channel, which basically matches the L/R Delta in the PN track. The range varied from about 0.61dB to 0.84dB on the dialogue and music tracks but those aren't really a good data reference point.

Using a "clean" section of the Zero Bit track, Dynamic Range was just under -83dB which is just 10dB shy of the theoretical limit of -93.3dB for the RedBook 16/44.1 CD format (accounting for Dither). So Nick's statement of about a -74dB "Noise Floor" seems plausible for actual music or dialogue tracks that contain actual "bits" of noise.  Not sure I'm measuring or calculating any of this correctly so don't quote me on any of these numbers! 




Hammer1 said:


> I started a thread on the new disk but received no answers. Has anyone experienced a problem with disk 1 when imported into iTunes. It will play fine except when my iPad is using the lighting out or Bluetooth. It like it skips but if just playing through iPads speakers it is fine


Sorry that I missed your thread. Link?

I'm not using an iPad so I can't test or comment about your specific problem, but it's possible that it is also linked to how Dither was applied in mastering and how the iPad's internal DAC, or the Lightning Cable, or BT is handling/converting the bit-stream depending on the routing through the device.

Apple's Lightning charge/sync cable, Lightning Audio Adapter cable, and CCK include their own conversion IC chip (ADC/DAC), and BT requires a particular digital conversion & compression logarithm as well. So those "limited" DAC chips and/or BT might not be playing nice with the bit stream, while the iPad's internal DAC can handle it with no problems. IDK, I could very well be totally wrong!?

*Inside Apple’s New Audio Adapter*

But now that you mention it, I have actually noticed that all of the particular tracks from the new 2016 IASCA CD occasionally cause the _UAPP_ app on my Android devices to "freak out" and/or cause the app to freeze, where nearly all other files (all of them being WAV or FLAC files converted from the original CD disc using EAC) do not create any problems. Hmmmm?


Here's a good article on the CD format, DACs, Dithering, and Jitter. It's a bit heavy on the tech and math but a good read if you're interested...

Bits is Bits?


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## AyOne

I'm so glad I just read this. I thought I was missing something with my T/A. I would get it dialed in, then play track 18 and it would be off to the right slightly. I'd re-adjust to make it line up then play music and it would be off. Thank you! I am not crazy.


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## Hammer1

Of all the songs that are on my iPad this disk is the only one that has the problem now disk 2 is fine. This kinda screws me when competing


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## chefhow

Hammer1 said:


> Of all the songs that are on my iPad this disk is the only one that has the problem now disk 2 is fine. This kinda screws me when competing


When competing the judge is supposed to provide the media not the competitor.


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## Hammer1

chefhow said:


> When competing the judge is supposed to provide the media not the competitor.


They have never loaded there disk on to my iPad. They use my disk that is already on my iPad. The old iasca disk was fine but the new disk almost every track has a problem with playback. Disk 2 has no problems and I am stumped at what to do


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## chefhow

Can they/you use an iPhone or other device in place of the iPad or is it in a way that your iPad is the only device that can be connected?


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## Hammer1

iPhone does the same thing as iPad. Just something with that disk.


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## bbfoto

Hammer1 said:


> iPhone does the same thing as iPad. Just something with that disk.


I think what Chef was asking is, "Does your car audio setup allow ANYONE to easily connect their own iPad or iPhone (or another type of playback device) to your system (not just your devices)???

The IASCA-certified judges should already have tracks from the Competition CD that have been repaired or fixed, so they want to use their tracks, not yours. And by the rules, the judges should be providing the disc or files with all of the test tracks when your system is judged/evaluated.

So can a judge QUICKLY and EASILY connect his or her personal iPhone or iPad to your system at the time of judging??? Or is your system setup in a way that only YOUR iPad or iPhone will work with your system?

Is there another way to play back the tracks on your system???...

Do you also have a standard Head Unit with a CD transport?

Or can the judges connect a Laptop computer and play back their files through your system via analog RCA connections to your DSP?

Or perhaps if you are using the Helix DSP PRO/PRO MKII with the USB HEC input card, can a judge connect their Laptop to your system via USB cable to play the test tracks from their computer???


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## david in germany

in for later


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## lashlee

Though I haven't tried it on my iPad or iPhone, both discs play fine on my iPod classic when loaded using lossless.


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## Hammer1

bbfoto said:


> I think what Chef was asking is, "Does your car audio setup allow ANYONE to easily connect their own iPad or iPhone (or another type of playback device) to your system (not just your devices)???
> 
> The IASCA-certified judges should already have tracks from the Competition CD that have been repaired or fixed, so they want to use their tracks, not yours. And by the rules, the judges should be providing the disc or files with all of the test tracks when your system is judged/evaluated.
> 
> So can a judge QUICKLY and EASILY connect his or her personal iPhone or iPad to your system at the time of judging??? Or is your system setup in a way that only YOUR iPad or iPhone will work with your system?
> 
> Is there another way to play back the tracks on your system???...
> 
> Do you also have a standard Head Unit with a CD transport?
> 
> Or can the judges connect a Laptop computer and play back their files through your system via analog RCA connections to your DSP?
> 
> Or perhaps if you are using the Helix DSP PRO/PRO MKII with the USB HEC input card, can a judge connect their Laptop to your system via USB cable to play the test tracks from their computer???


Yes a judge could connect a laptop through usb or another I device. No I do not have a head unit with cd transport just the iPad. I am going to see if I can get a new disk.


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## Hammer1

lashlee said:


> Though I haven't tried it on my iPad or iPhone, both discs play fine on my iPod classic when loaded using lossless.


The disk 1 plays fine when using the iPads speakers only when I output through the lighting port do I have problems. Disk 2 is fine


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## Hammer1

Reinstalled disk 1 into I tunes and then did a complete restore on iPad and disk 1 all the narrative audio tracks are the only ones with this skipping or studering. Going to run disk on my laptop through usb and see if it works


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## CBS13WRX

Has there been any kind of update with the audio on the discs corrected? I am asking before I spend the 20 bucks to purchase.


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## CBS13WRX

CBS13WRX said:


> Has there been any kind of update with the audio on the discs corrected? I am asking before I spend the 20 bucks to purchase.


 I just called them and they are stilling selling the old incorrect CDs and do not have a firm timeline when the corrected CDs will be produced. The woman on the phone said perhaps a couple of months down the road. My question, why are you still selling the defective CDs? Well we are just selling them to the new ones are produced.


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## AyOne

So do the judges have the corrected cds? Last tournament I went to I got dinged on my soundstage.


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## pocket5s

No they don't. Having said that, it doesn't mean you were dinged because of two different discs. Depends on what you got dinged for and what (if anything) was said. 

Where the new disc's error is most noticeable is in the left-center, center and right-center evaluation areas, being shifted a tad to the right. 

So stage boundaries, depth, height, width, etc should not be affected. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CBS13WRX

Does anyone have these discs in a .flac format?


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## chefhow

AyOne said:


> So do the judges have the corrected cds? Last tournament I went to I got dinged on my soundstage.


You shouldn't have been judged any differently than anyone else, it effects all competitors equally. Every judge is using the same discs so if your car is set up properly then you should be ok, we all know the issue and take that into consideration when doing staging.


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## Hammer1

CBS13WRX said:


> Does anyone have these discs in a .flac format?


I have disk 1 in flac


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## AyOne

pocket5s said:


> No they don't. Having said that, it doesn't mean you were dinged because of two different discs. Depends on what you got dinged for and what (if anything) was said.
> 
> Where the new disc's error is most noticeable is in the left-center, center and right-center evaluation areas, being shifted a tad to the right.
> 
> So stage boundaries, depth, height, width, etc should not be affected.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's exactly what was off.


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## Hammer1

AyOne said:


> That's exactly what was off.


I think it was the guy tuning. :laugh:


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## bbfoto

AyOne said:


> So do the judges have the corrected cds? Last tournament I went to I got dinged on my soundstage.





pocket5s said:


> No they don't. Having said that, it doesn't mean you were dinged because of two different discs. Depends on what you got dinged for and what (if anything) was said.
> 
> Where the new disc's error is most noticeable is in the left-center, center and right-center evaluation areas, being shifted a tad to the right.
> 
> So stage boundaries, depth, height, width, etc should not be affected.





AyOne said:


> That's exactly what was off.





chefhow said:


> You shouldn't have been judged any differently than anyone else, it effects all competitors equally. Every judge is using the same discs so if your car is set up properly then you should be ok, we all know the issue and take that into consideration when doing staging.



AyOne, just for Shiggles, if you have an extra available Preset on your DSP, try creating a "tune" that's identical to your "Competition Tune", but with ALL of the RIGHT CHANNELS REDUCED in LEVEL by 0.6dB-0.7dB. This should be fairly simple to do (depending on your DSP). Save that adjusted preset as the "2016 IASCA Competition Tune Only".

Then listen to your 2016 IASCA Competition Disc or Files and see if your Center Image and all Staging/Placement is correct and where it should be? Obviously, when you tune with/or listen to any other CD's or Music Files you will need to switch your Preset back to "normal".


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## pocket5s

bbfoto said:


> AyOne, just for Shiggles, if you have an extra available Preset on your DSP, try creating a "tune" that's identical to your "Competition Tune", but with ALL of the RIGHT CHANNELS REDUCED in LEVEL by 0.6dB-0.7dB. This should be fairly simple to do (depending on your DSP). Save that adjusted preset as the "2016 IASCA Competition Tune Only".
> 
> Then listen to your 2016 IASCA Competition Disc or Files and see if your Center Image and all Staging/Placement is correct and where it should be? Obviously, when you tune with/or listen to any other CD's or Music Files you will need to switch your Preset back to "normal".


I wouldn't leave it that way for judging. In other words, if I'm judging a car and the center is, well, dead center, then it is incorrect because I know the disc is NOT correct. Use something else if you like for lining up your center image (and LC and RC for that matter). You can still use the disc for focus on each of those positions however, especially since IASCA rules have focus and placement as separate categories on each position.


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## AyOne

pocket5s said:


> I wouldn't leave it that way for judging. In other words, if I'm judging a car and the center is, well, dead center, then it is incorrect because I know the disc is NOT correct. Use something else if you like for lining up your center image (and LC and RC for that matter). You can still use the disc for focus on each of those positions however, especially since IASCA rules have focus and placement as separate categories on each position.


My mind just exploded. So they know it's off and are listening for it to be that way?


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## pocket5s

as long as they know it is off, they should be. don't make your car "wrong" because the disc is.


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## AyOne

pocket5s said:


> as long as they know it is off, they should be. don't make your car "wrong" because the disc is.


That what I did last time but I didn't know it was wrong. Thanks.


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## chefhow

pocket5s said:


> as long as they know it is off, they should be. don't make your car "wrong" because the disc is.



Best advice given out in a long time.


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## bbfoto

Maybe there's no other or better way at the moment, but IMO the way you guys are dealing with this is going to create even more of a clusterfrack and confusion for both judges and competitors when the disc and files actually are corrected. :/ There seems to be even a little bit of discrepancy now just between Robert and Howard in how to best deal with this. Saying things like "should/shouldn't" or "as long as they _know_ it's off..." do not instill confidence when you _might_ lose your place on the podium as a result (not saying that all judging is 100% perfect anyway, but this certainly doesn't help).

But I'll step out of the conversation now as I don't compete and none of this really applies to me except the fact that I've spent $30 to receive a flawed CD to tune my system to, and it still hasn't been corrected even though this disc was released in 2016. :/

And I'm not crying about $30 as much as the fact that I haven't received or read an Official Announcement by IASCA even as a courtesy to let everbody know about these problems. The fact that they are still selling the flawed CD is disconcerting. If I was a competitor I would definitely be more discouraged and upset. It certainly doesn't put IASCA in a very good light as an association dedicated to SQ. And it's honestly not fair to the either the judges or the competitors to deal with this. IMO IASCA shouldn't be so lackadaisical in their attitude to getting this fixed. They really need to remedy this ASAP.

To some it main seem as if I'm making too much of a big deal about this, but the Entire Existence of this Organisation and ALL of its Competitions are based solely around this disc as being the "absolute reference". Just sayin'.

I'm out.


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## AyOne

bbfoto said:


> Maybe there's no other or better way at the moment, but IMO the way you guys are dealing with this is going to create even more of a clusterfrack and confusion for both judges and competitors when the disc and files actually are corrected. :/ There seems to be even a little bit of discrepancy now just between Robert and Howard in how to best deal with this. Saying things like "should/shouldn't" or "as long as they _know_ it's off..." do not instill confidence when you _might_ lose your place on the podium as a result (not saying that all judging is 100% perfect anyway, but this certainly doesn't help).
> 
> But I'll step out of the conversation now as I don't compete and none of this really applies to me except the fact that I've spent $30 to receive a flawed CD to tune my system to, and it still hasn't been corrected even though this disc was released in 2016. :/
> 
> And I'm not crying about $30 as much as the fact that I haven't received or read an Official Announcement by IASCA even as a courtesy to let everbody know about these problems. The fact that they are still selling the flawed CD is disconcerting. If I was a competitor I would definitely be more discouraged and upset. It certainly doesn't put IASCA in a very good light as an association dedicated to SQ. And it's honestly not fair to the either the judges or the competitors to deal with this. IMO IASCA shouldn't be so lackadaisical in their attitude to getting this fixed. They really need to remedy this ASAP.
> 
> To some it main seem as if I'm making too much of a big deal about this, but the Entire Existence of this Organisation and ALL of its Competitions are based solely around this disc as being the "absolute reference". Just sayin'.
> 
> I'm out.


I completely agree with you. If I hadn't already booked the hotel I wouldn't be going to this next local IASCA competition. It will be the last one I compete in solely because this issue with the disc. I can't take them seriously when they are purposefully selling a "reference cd" that is wrong. I have wasted too many hours tuning with their disc and am done.


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## Hammer1

There is more wrong with the disc than just that one track. All the narrative tracks break up on my iPad which is what I use for a head unit. It is not my iPad that is the problem I have tried two iPads and a iPhone and they all do it. There old disc plays just fine and I don’t see why they don’t go back to using it till they fix the flaws in the new disk. I also will not be competing after the surf city event. And would not be going if I didn’t already pay for it


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## bbfoto

Have the problems with the 2016 IASCA Competition CD been fixed?

I don't really want to beat a dead horse, but I was curious since we are well into 2018 at this point.


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## SoundQ SVT

bbfoto said:


> Have the problems with the 2016 IASCA Competition CD been fixed?
> 
> I don't really want to beat a dead horse, but I was curious since we are well into 2018 at this point.


At the Championship in October, Moe said they were going to have a new run of discs that fixed all the issues of the original. They should be ready any time now, if not already.


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## RRizz

will they be replacing, free of charge to those that bought the flawed units?


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## rc10mike

CDs are being phased out from major retailers. Whats next for IASCA?


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## metanium

rc10mike said:


> CDs are being phased out from major retailers. Whats next for IASCA?


I’d hope for lossless downloads.


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## pocket5s

Digital media is already an option for competitors. 

Having said that I don’t see Iasca dripping cds completely for some time. There are some who dislike that option due to the possibility of manipulation of the tracks. 

However it would certainly save Iasca money if they didn’t have to commercially burn all those cds. They could offer a download of the tracks and let judges and competitors burn to cd if those chose. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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