# New Member - 2013 Subaru WRX - The Pursuit to SQ Bliss



## Lyons238

Hello, all. Name is Steve. Been in the hobby since age 16 when I got my first MTX woofers. Built my own boxes and installs for some time now.

I have a 2013 Subaru WRX with all kinds of mods and I'm in the middle of installing/upgrading my system with the pursuit of excellent SQ, while getting a little loud, but nothing crazy. 

I will post details of build and pictures later.


----------



## Newellzie

Nice man! Post pics of the ride too!!! Always like looking at the subies! Aha is yours the sti? Either way I wish I had one aha


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Nice man! Post pics of the ride too!!! Always like looking at the subies! Aha is yours the sti? Either way I wish I had one aha


It's not an STI, but I've done so much work to it it doesnt matter at this point because I've upgraded so much. I also will be doing a tranny and brake swap so my car will be basically an STI with tons of mods.


----------



## Lyons238




----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> It's not an STI, but I've done so much work to it it doesnt matter at this point because I've upgraded so much. I also will be doing a tranny and brake swap so my car will be basically an STI with tons of mods.




Nice, and bro that is so clean . Looks good man keep it up! Maybe one day for myself. Or the rival EVO X  LOL


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Nice, and bro that is so clean . Looks good man keep it up! Maybe one day for myself. Or the rival EVO X  LOL


Thanks man. EVO's can be extremely fast, due to the design of the motor they can handle WAY more boost off the stock block. However, they're not as torquey and they're a lot more finnicky. You can't go wrong either way, but I would say Subaru's are overall easier and cheaper to maintain.


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> Thanks man. EVO's can be extremely fast, due to the design of the motor they can handle WAY more boost off the stock block. However, they're not as torquey and they're a lot more finnicky. You can't go wrong either way, but I would say Subaru's are overall easier and cheaper to maintain.




Yeah true. However I'm a little more fan of the Mitsubishi since I have a 97 DSM as a project car. So of course I'ma be a little biased. But for me it's just whatever is the better deal at the time of purchase  cause in either car (evo or wrx) I'm only gunna push 400-450 if even, cause it will be my daily

I thought subies are a little bit of a pain due to the boxer style motor. And you have to rebuild sooner due to rod sag? I could be wrong tho


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Yeah true. However I'm a little more fan of the Mitsubishi since I have a 97 DSM as a project car. So of course I'ma be a little biased. But for me it's just whatever is the better deal at the time of purchase  cause in either car I'm only gunna push 400-450 of even, cause to will be my daily


To push 400-450 to the wheels, is going to be a solid chunk of change. I have 400 to the crank maybe. 330 to the wheels and i've already spent a lot of money. 400-450 requires a fully built short block. You're talking maybe 20 grand to make that happen with full supporting mods. If it's your daily I wouldn't go passed what I did to my Subaru, which is everything besides built motor and big turbo. That's next on my list. And mine isn't even my daily.


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> to push 400-450 to the wheels, is going to be a solid chunk of change. I have 400 to the crank maybe. 330 to the wheels and i've already spent a lot of money. 400-450 requires a fully built short block. You're talking maybe 20 grand to make that happen with full supporting mods. If it's your daily I wouldn't go passed what I did to my Subaru, which is everything besides built motor and turbo. That's next on my list. And mine isn't even my daily.




I was talking motor but that's the dif betten the two. Honestly you can just grab and bigger turbo and put in on with some supporting mods and easily push 400 on the evo. The stock blocks and handle a lot. However I'm not sure what the new blocks can handle as I haven't done full search into it but the stock 4g63's 6bolt can take 750hp and 7bolt around 650-680. Without swapping internals at all. Many have done it. They are built like tanks. I wouldn't run that on a daily no way but just saying that they are beefy motors. I'ma push around 500-550 is my target for my current DSM.


----------



## Newellzie

However I'm not trying to start this into a evo vs subies debate. I love both cars. Highly respect yours! And can't wait to see your finished product!


----------



## Lyons238

Lyons238 said:


> To push 400-450 to the wheels, is going to be a solid chunk of change. I have 400 to the crank maybe. 330 to the wheels and i've already spent a lot of money. 400-450 requires a fully built short block. You're talking maybe 20 grand to make that happen with full supporting mods. If it's your daily I wouldn't go passed what I did to my Subaru, which is everything besides built motor and big turbo. That's next on my list. And mine isn't even my daily.


Yeah im not debating. I said myself the DSM's can handle a lot more boost/power on the stock block. However, it's not as simple as slapping a big turbo on. You still need to do injectors, and all of the supporting mods. Still not cheap. If that's the plan I would just go with the EVO then because you can run 400whp through a Subaru stock but its on the verge of the stock cast pistons going boom.


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> Yeah im not debating. I said myself the DSM's can handle a lot more boost/power on the stock block. However, it's not as simple as slapping a big turbo on. You still need to do injectors, and all of the supporting mods. Still not cheap. If that's the plan I would just go with the EVO then because you can run 400whp through a Subaru stock but its on the verge of the stock cast pistons going boom.



Yes, that is why I said supporting mods  there is a bunch to list (ie. Fuel regulator, injectors, pump, and that's just fuel delivery) I priced out my DSM and it's going to be about 7-9 grand to get it pushing 500-550 motor, which will be like high 400's for WHP. 

Still a fair amount of money aha. And that's just motor and trany. So I'll still need tires to grip  and a suspension (more for looks lol) 

But yeah I honestly don't care if my daily sees a ton of hp. But again I was talking 400-450 to the motor. The evo and I think the sti's as well do 300 motor stock? So even if you just up the boost, retuned, and a few mods. 400 wouldn't cost you too much. 

Anyways back to the car audio topic  what are your plans for your sq build? I see you have a helix DSP and a FI sub along with sundown amps, are you sticking with those? And what are you running for speakers?


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Yes, that is why I said supporting mods  there is a bunch to list (ie. Fuel regulator, injectors, pump, and that's just fuel delivery) I priced out my DSM and it's going to be about 7-9 grand to get it pushing 500-550 motor, which will be like high 400's for WHP.
> 
> Still a fair amount of money aha. And that's just motor and trany. So I'll still need tires to grip  and a suspension (more for looks lol)
> 
> But yeah I honestly don't care if my daily sees a ton of hp. But again I was talking 400-450 to the motor. The evo and I think the sti's as well do 300 motor stock? So even if you just up the boost, retuned, and a few mods. 400 wouldn't cost you too much.
> 
> Anyways back to the car audio topic  what are your plans for your sq build? I see you have a helix DSP and a FI sub along with sundown amps, are you sticking with those? And what are you running for speakers?


Yeah, sorry was thinking you meant WHP, and yeah stock Sti's are like 305hp, EVO is similar I believe.

I'm going to be ditching the fi Q (even though its brand new) and going with an Image Dynamics IDMAX 12 or 15. For speakers I have lower line Image Dynamics, but I think I'm getting some Hertz MLK165.3's, not sure yet, looking for options in the 4-600$ range for a 2 way system, the MLK's are about 800. I was looking at ID's flagship speakers their ID XS65's but I need something with pretty strong midbass for a 6.5", can anyone comment on these vs the MLK's?

The sundown amps push a good amount over rated power and clean, so I don't see a reason to replace them. Everyone says SQ amps, but IMO a SQ brand amp with similar specs isn't going to sound any better and there's actually been some SQ champs with Sundown amps. The only amps I would say might have better SQ is those that have differential inputs, which is not too many. Thoughts?

I have SounDrive RCA's waiting to go in...and will be purchasin a bunch sound deadener, MLV, and whatever else to improve cabin SQ.


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> Yeah, sorry was thinking you meant WHP, and yeah stock Sti's are like 305hp, EVO is similar I believe.
> 
> I'm going to be ditching the fi Q (even though its brand new) and going with an Image Dynamics IDMAX 12 or 15. For speakers I have lower line Image Dynamics, but I think I'm getting some Hertz MLK165.3's, not sure yet, looking for options in the 4-600$ range for a 2 way system, the MLK's are about 800.
> 
> The sundown amps push a good amount over rated power and clean, so I don't see a reason to replace them. Everyone says SQ amps, but IMO a SQ brand amp with similar specs isn't going to sound any better and there's actually been some SQ champs with Sundown amps. The only amps I would say might have better SQ is those that have differential inputs, which is not too many. Thoughts?
> 
> I have SounDrive RCA's waiting to go in, as well as a bunch of sound deadener, MLV, and whatever else to improve cabin SQ.




Yeah the hertz MLK's would be nice. If there a little much tho the HSK XL's have really good reviews for anyone that has them and they are like 400. Obvs the MLK's would be better. The focal KR2's would be similar category as the MLK's. Idk if you only buy new but sometimes you can find really good deals on used speakers. I have found complete Mille sets for 500-700 in good condition and that's even better! But there are tons of choices. Dynaudio 242gts are also a nice choice but I don't think you will find them for less then $800. And I like my CDT's, there Eurosport speakers are decent but I prob would go Mille if I had my choice. However if you are sticking to new. Then the HSK's would be my suggestion in the 4-600 range. 

As far as amps go I would prob swap. But I would do that after you swap out your other stuff. We all only have so much money so make that your last thing. If your happy with what you got. Then really... Who cares. Stick with the helix dsp obvs. Just curious on why the ID sub? They are good from what I hear and I haven't heard one myself so I'm not going to put it down. Just curious. Do you have one or what's your sub budget? 

Anyways that's my $0.02 but there is many others with tons of experience that can chime in maybe with a dif opinion. 

Another thing to look into is speaker separates. You can usually build a better quality system for less.


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Yeah the hertz MLK's would be nice. If there a little much tho the HSK XL's have really good reviews for anyone that has them and they are like 400. Obvs the MLK's would be better. The focal KR2's would be similar category as the MLK's. Idk if you only buy new but sometimes you can find really good deals on used speakers. I have found complete Mille sets for 500-700 in good condition and that's even better! But there are tons of choices. Dynaudio 242gts are also a nice choice but I don't think you will find them for less then $800. And I like my CDT's, there Eurosport speakers are decent but I prob would go Mille if I had my choice. However if you are sticking to new. Then the HSK's would be my suggestion in the 4-600 range.
> 
> As far as amps go I would prob swap. But I would do that after you swap out your other stuff. We all only have so much money so make that your last thing. If your happy with what you got. Then really... Who cares. Stick with the helix dsp obvs. Just curious on why the ID sub? They are good from what I hear and I haven't heard one myself so I'm not going to put it down. Just curious. Do you have one or what's your sub budget?
> 
> Anyways that's my $0.02 but there is many others with tons of experience that can chime in maybe with a dif opinion.
> 
> Another thing to look into is speaker separates. You can usually build a better quality system for less.


The HSK XL's on ebay are like 700 new, where are you finding them for 4-600?

I don't really have a budget, I just try and spend within reason and get something thats good quality and that I like. I like the IDMAX's because they have more cone area than others of the same size woofer, and they have good sensitivity and good SQ, all while getting pretty loud. I haven't found many other similar woofers. Still open to suggestions but that's what I'm leaning towards.

Also, why would you get rid of the amps? Unless I get an amp with a differential input and get legit twisted differential RCA's, an amp isn't going to sound any better, as long as it's clean power were talking. I thought that myth was debunked for the most part lol? Also since I'll be using the DSP I wont be using any of the amps on board filters or anything so even more reason. I'd be willing to bet if I finished this SQ build and compared both the sundown amp with a similar spec "SQ" amp like an audison or something, not one person would be able to actually tell or measure a difference. Please prove me wrong and if you do I'm open to amp suggestions, but I've run sundown amps for a while (granted I used to be more into SPL) but they have always delivered more than rated power and have sounded good and taken a beating. Sundown amps use very high quality components and are built very well, I don't see any reason not to run them, besides I too admit that they seem a bit out of place knowing how everyone perceives them as an "SPL" company, even though that doesn't apply, an amp should not be coloring the signal, especially if I'm not even using the on board crossovers.

check this thread out -> http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/710852.html


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> The HSK XL's on ebay are like 700 new, where are you finding them for 4-600?
> 
> I don't really have a budget, I just try and spend within reason and get something thats good quality and that I like. I like the IDMAX's because they have more cone area than others of the same size woofer, and they have good sensitivity and good SQ, all while getting pretty loud. I haven't found many other similar woofers. Still open to suggestions but that's what I'm leaning towards.
> 
> Also, why would you get rid of the amps? Unless I get an amp with a differential input and get legit twisted differential RCA's, an amp isn't going to sound any better, as long as it's clean power were talking. I thought that myth was debunked for the most part lol? Also since I'll be using the DSP I wont be using any of the amps on board filters or anything so even more reason. I'd be willing to bet if I finished this SQ build and compared both the sundown amp with a similar spec "SQ" amp like an audison or something, not one person would be able to actually tell or measure a difference. Please prove me wrong and if you do I'm open to amp suggestions, but I've run sundown amps for a while (granted I used to be more into SPL) but they have always delivered more than rated power and have sounded good and taken a beating. Sundown amps use very high quality components and are built very well, I don't see any reason not to run them, besides I too admit that they seem a bit out of place knowing how everyone perceives them as an "SPL" company, even though that doesn't apply, an amp should not be coloring the signal, especially if I'm not even using the on board crossovers.
> 
> check this thread out -> http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/710852.html




Well you don't have too. But again the only thing that bothers me about that thread is that it's all theoretical. Theoretical is nice, but actual performance is the truth. Amps "shouldn't" colour the signal. But if that's the case then go for a boss amp. Sundown makes really good products and like I said if your happy then don't swap. But Vipers are well built cars, they push 600hp. Would you pick a viper or a Ferrari italia? Is there a dif? They both consist of quality components and push the similar power. Honestly tho if your not going for overkill in all truth it prob won't sound dif. But the only way to know is to try dif set ups. However that does get technical and so if I were you I guess then I wouldn't swap. It is true a good amp is a good amp, as long is its actually a good amp. Which sundowns are. So the reason to swap is, space, looks, or efficiency/ sensitivity. All in saying is, there is a reason why some amps are more then others. 

Also the HSK XL used to have a $450 price tag on eBay but j can't find the dealer. However here's an even better deal 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/162080976057 

If your going for sq the sub I want to try and there are good things about is the audio frog gb10d4 or the gb12d4. However I also love my 10w6v3! However the audio frogs have a better sensitivity, you may want to compare them to your ID subs.


----------



## Newellzie

I think we are arguing to separate points on the amp tho. Simply If they sound good then don't swap.


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Well you don't have too. But again the only thing that bothers me about that thread is that it's all theoretical. Theoretical is nice, but actual performance is the truth. Amps "shouldn't" colour the signal. But if that's the case then go for a boss amp. Sundown makes really good products and like I said if your happy then don't swap. But Vipers are well built cars, they push 600hp. Would you pick a viper or a Ferrari? Is there a dif? They both consist of quality components and push the same power. Honestly tho if your not going for overkill in all truth it prob won't sound dif. But the only way to know is to try dif set ups. However that does get technical and so if I were you I guess then I wouldn't swap. It is true a good amp is a good amp, as long is its actually a good amp. Which sundowns are. So the reason to swap is, space, looks, or efficiency/ sensitivity. All in saying is, there is a reason why some amps are more then others.
> 
> Also the HSK XL used to have a $450 price tag on eBay but j can't find the dealer. However here's an even better deal
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/162080976057
> 
> If your going for sq the sub I want to try and there are good things about is the audio frog gb10d4 or the gb12d4. However I also love my 10w6v3! However the audio frogs have a better sensitivity, you may want to compare them to your ID subs.


I like W6's too. I like the IDMAX even more though! I'll check the AF Gb out but I really like the IDMAX's. My only concern is 12" vs 15"? biggest box I could make is 3.5 net cubes tuned to 30hz.

On the amp topic. It is theoretical, but its true/fact there has been no measurable or audible differences between the input vs output signal of one quality amp with clean power and another excluding filtering because different filters CAN change the sound. Now some cheap amps might have tons of distortion or whatever, but that's besides the point. I get what your saying and I agree. But the THD is comparable to any SQ amp, and that difference is not even audible anyway. If I were using the amps on board crossovers, that's where amps could potentially sound different. But since I'm only using the amps input compared to output, I'm certain I would hear no difference between my sundown amp and a comparable Audison or JL amp. Now if my system had a lot of noise I might see a difference to use a differential input amp, but I don't have any noise even with my cheap sky high RCA's and I have proper single ended RCA's waiting to be installed with the Helix DSP Pro. I believe switching amps would be purely aesthetic. I have no problems with how the Sundown amps look either. I think they look classic, which is good IMO. I'll hold off on switching amps, however it is still on the horizon. 

Also, that link you sent is for 1 woofer and 1 tweeter, not the set. I did however find the MLK 165.3's for 550 new, that doesn't seem right, are there a lot of fakes? I thought I heard of fake ones before.

PS: Any disagreements we may have don't take them the wrong way. You seem to know your stuff and I respect that and I value your opinion. I think we're having some good discussions that can be useful to others as well.


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> I like W6's too. I like the IDMAX even more though! I'll check the AF Gb out but I really like the IDMAX's. My only concern is 12" vs 15"? biggest box I could make is 3.5 net cubes tuned to 30hz.
> 
> 
> 
> On the amp topic. It is theoretical, but its true/fact there has been no measurable or audible differences between the input vs output signal of one quality amp with clean power and another excluding filtering because different filters CAN change the sound. Now some cheap amps might have tons of distortion or whatever, but that's besides the point. I get what your saying and I agree. But the THD is comparable to any SQ amp, and that difference is not even audible anyway. If I were using the amps on board crossovers, that's where amps could potentially sound different. But since I'm only using the amps input compared to output, I'm certain I would hear no difference between my sundown amp and a comparable Audison or JL amp. Now if my system had a lot of noise I might see a difference to use a differential input amp, but I don't have any noise and I have proper single ended RCA's. I believe switching amps would be purely aesthetic. I have no problems with how the Sundown amps look either. I think they look classic, which is good IMO. I'll hold off on switching amps, however it is still on the horizon.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, that link you sent is for 1 woofer and 1 tweeter, not the set. I did however find the MLK 165.3's for 550 new, that doesn't seem right, are there a lot of fakes? I thought I heard of fake ones before.




Amp : yes agreed and I like the look too 

I meant to send you the $550 one. And idk, I haven't heard of fakes but there is like two models 

There is the Mille mlk 165.3 which is a 165.3 woofer a 28.3 tweeter and the mlcx 165.3 crossover. 

Then there is the Mille 1650.3 a 280.3 and a mlcx 2 tm.3 which is the upper series. 

If you knew that then idk, but 550 + 50 shopping is a good deal!


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Amp : yes agreed and I like the look too
> 
> I meant to send you the $550 one. And idk, I haven't heard of fakes but there is like two models
> 
> There is the mlk 165.3 which is a 165.3 woofer a 28.3 tweeter and the mlcx 165.3 crossover.
> 
> Then there is the Mille series that is a 1650.3 a 280.3 and a mlcx tm.3 which is the upper series.
> 
> If you knew that then idk, but 550 + 50 shopping is a good deal!


Yes, however to your original point I admit, the Sundown amps seem a little out of place as compared to what I'm planning to install. But I know that that's just related to cultural biases, and not real world data. So like you said originally I'm either going to just run them, or replace them last. But it's not a priority.

What's your opinion on running 1 ohm vs 2 ohm? Do you think there is a noticeable increase in SQ? I have been told that that dampening factor is unnoticeable and kinda a myth. Not sure on that though. I could either run my amp at 1000 watts RMS at 2 ohms which would be maxed out or near maxed out. Or I could run like 1200 watts RMS at 1 ohm and still have plenty of headroom to play with depending on my box rise etc.

I just got all of the SMD tools so I will be able to measure what's going on 

I was wondering what the difference between the millie 1650.3's and the MLK156.3. What's the diff? It seems like the milli 1650.3's don't come as a system and the MLK's do? Aren't the MLK165.3's just an itteration of the Mille 1650.3's? Theyre lineup is so confusing LOL.


----------



## Newellzie

The old 1600's and 280's were like separates and still can be with the new ones but if you go on to hertzaudiovideo.com you see that they are now also systems. You notice visual differences in the woofers, tweeters and crossovers. The 1650.3 system is 1db more sensitive. And has a selection on crossover points. Obvs if you can afford it the 1650.3 is better but the 165.3 is an affordable option for good performance. The mlk165.3 I believe is only a system.


----------



## Newellzie

1 ohm should be fine if your amp is stable. But I'm not to sure cause I have never run below 2 myself. Right now I run 2, and I used to run 4. I heard that my w6's would sound better running at 4, then both at 1 so I never tried 1 lol. That's honestly a question you will either have to find out yourself or maybe someone else can pipe in.


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> The old 1600's and 280's were like separates and still can be with the new ones but if you go on to hertzaudiovideo.com you see that they are now also systems. You notice visual differences in the woofers, tweeters and crossovers. The 1650.3 system is 1db more sensitive. And has a selection on crossover points. Obvs if you can afford it the 1650.3 is better but the 165.3 is an affordable option for good performance. The mlk165.3 I believe is only a system.


Yeah the magnets are diff too.

So the MLK165.3's are part of the Mille series, correct? 

The performance should be similar and they're still part of what everyone talks about and hypes them up or is that the 1650.3's? People don't even specify they usually say mille's or MLK65s.


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> Yeah the magnets are diff too.
> 
> 
> 
> So the MLK165.3's are part of the Mille series, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> The performance should be similar and they're still part of what everyone talks about and hypes them up or is that the 1650.3's? People don't even specify they usually say mille's or MLK65s.




Yes they are. However I haven't heard much on the the new ones yet. Most of what I heard was older milles which would be the 1600's. Most of the time they are running up against the focal krx or moral elate, so I would say it's the 1650's. However the 165's in sure sound almost as good. But when researching you may just have to look closer.


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Yes they are. However I haven't heard much on the the new ones yet. Most of what I heard was older milles which would be the 1600's. Most of the time they are running up against the focal krx or moral elate, so I would say it's the 1650's. However the 165's in sure sound almost as good. But when researching you may just have to look closer.


Son of a! Are there even any good priced 1650.3's? I couldn't even find any on ebay or anything besides a couple single woofer sales, no speaker sets or component sets...only the MLK165.3's. Hope someone chimes in on what the intended difference is supposed to be rather than meaningless specs. Not that all specs are meaningless but, the specs in this case don't really do me any good. I want a great, smooth sounding, reference quality component set that can get down low enough for a 6.5" to blend with my sub and not sound harsh up top.

Wonder if the MLK165.3's will be the ticket and if they're worth the $600+


----------



## Newellzie

Yeah well the new milles won best in car system, I forget from who tho. But both say they play 40hz. I personally cross my 10 at 90hz so even if they played 70 fine they would blend well. Which I'm sure they do. But yeah the 1650's are not cheap. Try Amazon. But still not cheap lol. I honestly think the 165.3's will make you happy man. I really do


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Yeah well the new milles won best in car system, I forget from who tho. But both say they play 40hz. I personally cross my 10 at 90hz so even if they played 70 fine they would blend well. Which I'm sure they do. But yeah the 1650's are not cheap. Try Amazon. But still not cheap lol. I honestly think the 165.3's will make you happy man. I really do


When you say the new Mille's won, do you mean the ML or the entire series?


----------



## Newellzie

The 1650.3's sorry I should have been more clear


----------



## Newellzie

I was just reading up on them tho and hertz states that the mlk 165.3 share all the same technologies. Doesn't really explain the difference tho. The crossover doesn't support bi amp config like the mlcx 2 tw.3 but you prob don't care


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> The 1650.3's sorry I should have been more clear


I figured. I wish they specified what the difference is like what they were aiming to achieve with the two different models of the same line. I see some specific specs of whats similar and what's different, but nothing on actual performance.

edit: and yeah IDC about xovers as I will be running them active with the DSP. Looks like the MLK165.3's might be my best option. Even though I'm now learning the original MLK's were much better than today's MLK's. Not sure how that compares to todays ML's. Hertz has quite the cluster **** of a line up LOL.


----------



## Newellzie

Yeah ik :/


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Yeah ik :/


What about the Hertz ML1600 as apposed to the 1650.3's?


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> What about the Hertz ML1600 as apposed to the 1650.3's?




Well they are a previous generation, also smaller slightly. But I mean there a really good woofer still. Pair those with some 280's or 280.2's and you have yourself a good system. Just cause there older doesn't mean there not good lol. If they sounded good yesterday they should sound good today aha


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Well they are a previous generation, also smaller slightly. But I mean there a really good woofer still. Pair those with some 280's or 280.2's and you have yourself a good system. Just cause there older doesn't mean there not good lol. If they sounded good yesterday they should sound good today aha




Yeah. I might just go with the newer MLK165.3s if I can get them for 550 but idk if it's from an authorized dealer. I see a lot of people questions cheap hertz


----------



## Lyons238

Got these babies in the mail today. The SMd IM-SG is on the way next. With these and my Helix DSP pro I will really be able to dial in a tune and figure out exactly what is working and what's not with my system in my specific cabin/install. Really excited!


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> Got these babies in the mail today. The SMd IM-SG is on the way next. With these and my Helix DSP pro I will really be able to dial in a tune and figure out exactly what is working and what's not with my system in my specific cabin/install. Really excited!




Nice man! I have to get me some


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Nice man! I have to get me some




So worth it dude watch the D'Amore videos. So many crazy uses specifically for audio. It's a dream.


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> So worth it dude watch the D'Amore videos. So many crazy uses specifically for audio. It's a dream.




How much do those run?


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> How much do those run?




Not cheap 399 and 250. But I got them both for 500 new. You probably can find them used.


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> Not cheap 399 and 250. But I got them both for 500 new. You probably can find them used.




Yeah prob, that is a decent amount lol that's my dsp purchase aha


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Yeah prob, that is a decent amount lol that's my dsp purchase aha




But the knowledge about your system is priceless and gives you the ability to build and tune your system proper. There's honestly no other way without thousands of dollars of electrical engineering tools. The sensor in the AMM-1 is only found in tools that cost 3k and up. And you still can't even do what you can do with the AMM-1 because you can measure multiple things at once with the tool you can't do these specific things with anything else.

What DSP do you use?


----------



## Newellzie

Interesting, yeah I should get some tools. And I don't have a dsp yet. That's next on the list. I have an 80prs and a HD900/5 which are two solid units, so I have fine tuned between the 2 to make it sound good aha. But I really want a dsp. I am deciding between a arc ps8, an audison bit one, mosconi 6-8 or a helix. Idk what to get to be honest aha but I also am looking for a good used one around the 450-500 mark give or take. When I have the cash.


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Interesting, yeah I should get some tools. And I don't have a dsp yet. That's next on the list. I have an 80prs and a HD900/5 which are two solid units, so I have fine tuned between the 2 to make it sound good aha. But I really want a dsp. I am deciding between a arc ps8, an audison bit one, mosconi 6-8 or a helix. Idk what to get to be honest aha but I also am looking for a good used one around the 450-500 mark give or take. When I have the cash.




I went through the same battle. It came down to the Helix DSP Pro for me with all the features plus a nice piece of software and a small unit. The Audison is a bit out dated but still very capable with some advantages, but many people have problems with them these days. The PS8 and mosconi were just more foreign to me so I went with the helix. 

Can't go wrong with any of those choices though.


----------



## Majik

Lyons238 said:


> I really like the IDMAX's. My only concern is 12" vs 15"? biggest box I could make is 3.5 net cubes tuned to 30hz.


How about Infinite Baffle with and IDMAX 15? That's my vote...sure, ported has more potential output, but when implemented correctly, the MAX 15 IB produces the best bass I have ever heard...with plenty of output for a daily. They do sound good ported as well...here is a review of the IDMAX 15 ported, albeit in a larger box than you can fit.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...6-image-dynamic-idmax15-listening-review.html


----------



## Newellzie

Lyons238 said:


> I went through the same battle. It came down to the Helix DSP Pro for me with all the features plus a nice piece of software and a small unit. The Audison is a bit out dated but still very capable with some advantages, but many people have problems with them these days. The PS8 and mosconi were just more foreign to me so I went with the helix.
> 
> Can't go wrong with any of those choices though.




Yeah I'm going for helix or masconi now but just bought a ms-8 as a stepping stone!!


----------



## Lyons238

Newellzie said:


> Yeah I'm going for helix or masconi now but just bought a ms-8 as a stepping stone!!


Nice, I've heard good things about the MS-8. If I wasn't a tech nerd I would get one but I like to tinker. 



EDIT: REVISED PLAN!!!

- Audible Physics NZ3Albe 3" wide-range speakers (.75 liter on axis in A-pillars)
- Exodus Anarchy 6.5" mid bass in custom kick panels (playing 60-500-600hz)

I decided to go with this for my front stage as apposed to the Hertz Mille's, because I've heard amazing things about the AP wide-range speakers and I think I would be better off isolating the mid bass and if I'm going to have a 2 way system at least have a speaker playing just higher frequencies, rather than low and high. Plus this should improve my sound stage by putting more frequencies up on the dash and on axis.


----------

