# What is the best DSP you have ever use?



## eric3514 (Nov 5, 2013)

What is the best Digital signal processor you have ever used?

If money is not a problem and you already have a good installation, good speakers, amplifiers and such, which DSP would you peak as the more capable, better sound, more tuning and flexibility?


Any input and/or recommendations will be very well appreciated!


Greetings,
Eric


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

bss soundweb fully expanded, 36 outputs to 9 zones all run 3 way active plus subs and fills..but this is pro audio..but if I could get a soundweb in a car..damn.

alpines pxi h900 is my fav overall if you can find one.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

For me it's the MS8. Logic 7 and how easy it is to get an amazing tune out of it is very nice. Since getting it I have had no desire to change as nothing else can do what it does as well as it does.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Helix pro for me . But I haven't tryed the alpine , 
Bit one is a turd so it the 360 stuff . 
Honestly I am digging the dexp99 . One eq seems to do just fine and tuning on the fly is amazing .


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

i can confidently say that no one here has used all of the processors on the market, or even all of the ones on your list. that being said, the helix has yet to disappoint anyone from what ive seen


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## Boops (Jul 17, 2015)

Rane 88 converted for car use, not practical because it is a rack mount pro audio processor so HUGE but it was the best .....


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

since two of them were mentioned.. what can these pro audio processors do that car audio ones cant?


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## eric3514 (Nov 5, 2013)

SkizeR said:


> since two of them were mentioned.. what can these pro audio processors do that car audio ones cant?


Good question!


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## eric3514 (Nov 5, 2013)

oabeieo said:


> Helix pro for me . But I haven't tryed the alpine ,
> Bit one is a turd so it the 360 stuff .
> Honestly I am digging the dexp99 . One eq seems to do just fine and tuning on the fly is amazing .



I was looking at the p99rs as well, seems like is a beast!


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

eric3514 said:


> I was looking at the p99rs as well, seems like is a beast!


not as good as any of the processors on the list. the p99 only has 31 band left and right graphic eq, where as most of the other have 31 band per channel eq. also has limited crossover selection


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Bit one and MS-8 is what I've used. 
MS-8 wins easy. Logic is sick


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

pro audio dsps have longer delay times for alinement, usually both parametric and graphic eqs, sometimes steeper crossover slopes, limiters, both rms and peak which are great for system protection. also there build quality and sample conversion is usually pretty desent up in the realm of cost we are currently talking about.


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## eric3514 (Nov 5, 2013)

AAAAAAA said:


> For me it's the MS8. Logic 7 and how easy it is to get an amazing tune out of it is very nice. Since getting it I have had no desire to change as nothing else can do what it does as well as it does.





DDfusion said:


> Bit one and MS-8 is what I've used.
> MS-8 wins easy. Logic is sick


The Ms8 sounds interesting, but, it can just be used as self automatic equalization, isn't it? or there is a manual mode?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

eric3514 said:


> The Ms8 sounds interesting, but, it can just be used as self automatic equalization, isn't it? or there is a manual mode?


Just auto eq/crossovers/time alignment, then afterwards you can go and adjust the eq

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

there is a manual mode, the interface is bloody aweful and its not remotely flexible. I would steer clear of the ms8 in favor of the helix pro, alpine, or even the rf 360.3 is a desent unit that wont break the bank.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Lycancatt said:


> bss soundweb fully expanded, 36 outputs to 9 zones all run 3 way active plus subs and fills..but this is pro audio..but if I could get a soundweb in a car..damn.
> 
> alpines pxi h900 is my fav overall if you can find one.


Show off..


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

haha..I do pro club installs/tune ups when I can get the work, this was a fun one, all function 1 and lab grupen amplifiers.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Let`s stay on car audio specific products, example computer based DSP with VST compatible sound card will vipe a floor with all abovementioned, but not practical for car use.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

Lycancatt said:


> there is a manual mode, the interface is bloody aweful and its not remotely flexible. I would steer clear of the ms8 in favor of the helix pro, alpine, or even the rf 360.3 is a desent unit that wont break the bank.


There is not a manual mode for TA and calibration EQ. 

You do have a 31 band EQ to adjust afterwards but it's not needed. 
The interface is very simple. So I can't imagine anyone that's used it to say it's awful.

I also have zero desire to change anything else, that's very uncommon


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## maggie-g (Aug 20, 2014)

Alpine IVA H701. Crazy good for its day.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

maggie-g said:


> Alpine IVA H701. Crazy good for its day.


but what about today?


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Lycancatt said:


> haha..I do pro club installs/tune ups when I can get the work, this was a fun one, all function 1 and lab grupen amplifiers.


Heard any of the new Pure Groove stuff?

All based on Danley Sound Synergy horns. Puts even Funktion1 to shame.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

For car-audio specific DSP, the Helix Pro is the most powerful one.

64 bit processing
96kHz sample rate
10 channels output
Phase angle control in 11.5 degree steps via All-Pass filters
Time alignment in .01ms steps
3 options for volume controllers



I give 2nd place to the Mosconi 6to8.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

subterFUSE said:


> Heard any of the new Pure Groove stuff?
> 
> All based on Danley Sound Synergy horns. Puts even Funktion1 to shame.


Putting a Funktion1 to shame is no small feat.

I live to hear this!


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

I've got a pretty limited run with dsp's. Old alpine 700 and the clunky rf360. Both were ok. The alpine was nice then. I'd love to get my hands on a Helix pro. I'm sure most modern dsp units are capable of outstanding performance in the hands of the right person. Most likely to the point that most people wouldn't be able to tell any difference at all with proper tunes.


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## lizardking (Nov 8, 2008)

Helix DSP Pro and the C-DSP the best I've ever owned.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

drop1 said:


> Putting a Funktion1 to shame is no small feat.
> 
> I live to hear this!



More output with smaller stacks, and the drivers are point-source.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

no love for Dolby Lake, wait it's 5k+


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Alpine F1 7990/PXA-900. Not to Mention the most Beautiful HU ever Made, IMO.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> not as good as any of the processors on the list. the p99 only has 31 band left and right graphic eq, where as most of the other have 31 band per channel eq. also has limited crossover selection


Limited ? Well it gets the job done quite well actually. No you can't pick alignment q but so what , 6,12,18,24,30,36 db butter worth steps are plenty for most. 

I get it , sure your point is valid , but dosent diminish the quality of signal the unit can produce, it can stand up any helix in the right hands .


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

oabeieo said:


> Limited ? Well it gets the job done quite well actually. No you can't pick alignment q but so what , 6,12,18,24,30,36 db butter worth steps are plenty for most.
> 
> I get it , sure your point is valid , but dosent diminish the quality of signal the unit can produce, it can stand up any helix in the right hands .


honestly, you cant even compare the helix and the p99. not by a long shot. yeah the p99 is definitely good enough, but the helix and some of the others are on a whole other level. this is coming from someone with a p99 btw. i found that the least powerful processor on this list (the zapco) has more processing power than the p99. i also have the dc amps which has the zapco processor built in. i currently use the zapco for left and right eq and time alignment (and soon to be crossovers) due to the flexibility over the p99. just cant compare graphic eq to parametric. parametric is the bees knees. the zapco, like most other processors, you can select any crossover point you want, and any eq point (and its bandwidth) for each band you want unlike the p99. im pretty much using the p99 just for mono eq, and levels


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## JimmyDee (Mar 8, 2014)

subterFUSE said:


> For car-audio specific DSP, the Helix Pro is the most powerful one.
> 
> I give 2nd place to the Mosconi 6to8.


I agree with Subter... I think the Helix is the best DSP on the market right now, with the Mosconi running a close second.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

In 8 or so years of using the old zapco dsp, I've never once lost a tune, had firmware update issues, or otherwise been frustrated with it. "Limited" as it may be.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

benny z said:


> In 8 or so years of using the old zapco dsp, I've never once lost a tune, had firmware update issues, or otherwise been frustrated with it. "Limited" as it may be.


ive been frustrated with it countless times lol. but now that i got the hang of it, its not nearly as bad as i thought it was when i first got them


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> honestly, you cant even compare the helix and the p99. not by a long shot. yeah the p99 is definitely good enough, but the helix and some of the others are on a whole other level. this is coming from someone with a p99 btw. i found that the least powerful processor on this list (the zapco) has more processing power than the p99. i also have the dc amps which has the zapco processor built in. i currently use the zapco for left and right eq and time alignment (and soon to be crossovers) due to the flexibility over the p99. It. just cant compare graphic eq to parametric. parametric is the bees knees. the zapco, like most other processors, you can select any crossover point you want, and any eq point (and its bandwidth) for each band you want unlike the p99. im pretty much using the p99 just for mono eq, and levels



I own the 99 , the Audison , I e owned several 360s and I'm installing a helix now . I am going to buy a helix the one I'm installing in a customer car is very nice. I agree with you so much I'm even buying a helix , but I know I can get the 99 to sound just about as good and maybe even better in the right hands being you can listen and drive and tune simultaneously, where as the helix you have to pull to side of road , pull out the lap top , plug in , and tune , or leave a clunky laptop plunged in while you drive. That 1db adjustment you can make from song to song here and there when you realize you need it is super nice with the 99. I'm not saying it can't be done with helix , it's just so much more of a pain in the ass. And if your like me and changing equipment on a monthly basis the need to tune quickly is a must and the 99 just is too handy. 

Enough said , yes the helix is nicer dsp but the 99 is way better to use and when it takes weeks sometimes to get a eq setting that you like , or like that well .... Anyway I concede .... But the 99 still is not a bad piece at all. IMHO if the 99 had a optical out I would be stoked , to have both in use .


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

tuning and driving.. sounds safe lol


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## boricua69 (Oct 14, 2009)

mmiller said:


> Alpine F1 7990/PXA-900. Not to Mention the most Beautiful HU ever Made, IMO.


Yes, pxa-h900 is the best sounding DSP ever made, maybe doesn't have all the flexibilities and hi-preout voltage of the new modern junks Dsp. But when you talk about sound quality no one can beat it.


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## johnbooth3 (Feb 26, 2008)

Great thread. Out of all of these, which have OEM correction curves?

As I remember, I think the following do:

Zapco Z8
Audison Bit One
Rockford 360.3

Any others?

Also, I work in ProAV and I would also take a BSS, Dolby, QSC, etc, but not practical in the car. No Rane though.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

johnbooth3 said:


> Great thread. Out of all of these, which have OEM correction curves?
> 
> As I remember, I think the following do:
> 
> ...


im almost positive the zapco doesnt, not sure about the audison, and the 360.3 does. so does the ms-8


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

Lycancatt said:


> haha..I do pro club installs/tune ups when I can get the work, this was a fun one, all function 1 and lab grupen amplifiers.


Function 1 sound systems are hands down the best club setups ive ever heard.


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

And on topic...

I have no issues with my PPI DEQ.8. Its all manual, no auto tune, but easy enough to setup as long as you know what you are doing.


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## Zippy (Jul 21, 2013)

I wish I could have picked two. I chose the rainbow DSP 1.8 due to the apple iPad tuning app which lets you adjust the preset tune on the fly. It also can be chained to a second one allowing 16 channels of active processing if you need it. Also, the controller for the DSP is an app that runs on android and apple. 
The second one I wanted to pick was the ps8 due to the function of the software. When linking channels, they remain separate and any adjustment is applied to each channel. This allows you to maintain right/left eq while adjusting overall on both.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Zippy said:


> The second one I wanted to pick was the ps8 due to the function of the software. When linking channels, they remain separate and any adjustment is applied to each channel. This allows you to maintain right/left eq while adjusting overall on both.



Helix Pro can be linked in that way (Relative Mode) or Absolute Mode. So can the Mosconi.

It's a great feature, but not exclusive to the PS8.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> tuning and driving.. sounds safe lol


So safe ! Lol . Nothing like those 45 min drives and only making it two or three blocks away


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## boricua69 (Oct 14, 2009)

The Best is the DEQX Pre Mate. 
Scott knows what is the best!


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## CoLd_FuSiOn (Jun 25, 2012)

I personally use a p99rs, I like the ability to tune on the fly. 

I haven't used any external dsp yet but the one I heard and liked a lot was the helix c dsp. 

Sent from my One Plus One using Tapatalk


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

I've only used the MS-8 and I thought it was incredible. It's the only processor i've used so I don't know what i'm missing. I purchased a Helix and currently debating between the two. I'm leaning towards the MS-8 because I know how to set that up whereas for the Helix, I have no idea. I think if you accept what the MS-8 can do and not wanting it to do things outside of it's capabilities; most will be satisfied. Within 5 minutes in the hands of a noob, it's one of the best processor out there and perfect if you want to "set it and forget it."


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## eric3514 (Nov 5, 2013)

For what I read, the ones that come on top is the helix pro dsp and the rainbow 1.8 dsp, tha good thing about the helix dsp is that the controller just came out, and the rainbow dsp dont really need one, just download the app in your phone and you are ready to go.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

The Rane RPM88 was so far a head of the H900 it wasn't even funny.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> The Rane RPM88 was so far a head of the H900 it wasn't even funny.


can you explain how? im getting more and more intrigued by these pro audio dsp's


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## iamstubb (Sep 6, 2013)

Based on my experience and the OP's point about budget, I would go with miniDSP 8x8. I use 2 miniDSP2x4 balanced units in my car. For less than $300 you get amazing flexibility and capability. The 8x8 uses the same approach with more flexibility. Only it will run you about $550. But for me, enjoyment always comes in the context of how much lucre I had to let go of to get me there.

8x8 specs:

172MHz - 28/56bit DSP
• 24bit/114 dB ADC / DAC
• 48/96kHz sample rate


2x4 specs
• 48MHz - 28/56bit DSP
• 24bit 99dB ADC / DAC
• 48kHz sample rate
• 99dB DR ADC converters


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

drop1 said:


> I'm sure most modern dsp units are capable of outstanding performance in the hands of the right person. Most likely to the point that most people wouldn't be able to tell any difference at all with proper tunes.


^^ That is a fact. The only caveat being, in the right hands the unit with the finest resolution will eventually give the best sound.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

I've been curious about doing a 12V conversion on a dbx DriveRack VENU360. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## johnbooth3 (Feb 26, 2008)

SkizeR said:


> im almost positive the zapco doesnt, not sure about the audison, and the 360.3 does. so does the ms-8



The Zapco does some low frequency adjustment based on voltage. No factory re-eq but is something. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eric3514 (Nov 5, 2013)

Victor_inox said:


> Let`s stay on car audio specific products, example computer based DSP with VST compatible sound card will vipe a floor with all abovementioned, but not practical for car use.


I rather stick to car audio DSP as Victor said, I dont want to get into size, energy(12V)..... problems


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## wrangler (Apr 3, 2011)

Being a newbie to DSP, I can now honestly say Helix is very good.
I've also used an MS8.
Helix seems much more flexible for tweaking to get the sound just right....or so I believe!


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## maggie-g (Aug 20, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> but what about today?


today I am using the MS8 and I think the h701 was better. The question is the best dsp that I have ever used. I have only used these 2 and the 701 was better.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

sqnut said:


> ^^ That is a fact. The only caveat being, in the right hands the unit with the finest resolution will eventually give the best sound.


While technically true there come a point that 99 percent of the people on the planet wouldn't be able to hear that different and .5 of the one percent left would be lying if they said they could.


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## Timelessr1 (Feb 12, 2010)

I've had and used an ms8, bit one, and helix pro... Ms8 was short lived.. Not enough manual tuning flexibility. Bit One had a quick learning curve, but I hated ....did I mention hated their customer service! So I went to helix.... Love the unit but the user interface had more of a learning curve...


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I have the RF 3SIXTY.3 and it looks like it works rather well. Most things are all layed out on one screen so its easy to nav without switching pages back and forth. 

It does have that AutoTune for factory head units, although it didn't do the job right, my tuner had to manually adjust(maybe issue when using front and rear output from HU). 

It also detects a distortion level for the HU, and this is a bit more than what the tuner was able to measure manually.

It has 8 channels which I think its the only limitation to this DSP.

Besides 2 more channels , how is the Helix better than other DSP's that do the same adjustments? Unless somene one is giving a cleaner signal? 
input options? RF has optical along with BT and RCA's

I do wish that they came up with the app to change settings as the product launch anouncement lead people who bought this to believe.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

DDfusion said:


> Haters will hate


I don't hate it, it still has the best auto tune


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

You think the 8 is all Ive ever used? Been in this game for a while bud.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

SkizeR said:


> its just funny seeing this talk from someone whos only used auto tune


FTW, beat me to it. He has said that he used the bit1 and hated that cause he couldn't dial it in.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

I liked the bit until I got he MS-8 in the new car. I had the bit dialed in enough to win whenever I entered. With a "SPL" car.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> I liked the bit until I got he MS-8 in the new car. I had the bit dialed in enough to win whenever I entered. With a "SPL" car.


what events?


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

MECA VA. Which did have some good cars show up most of the times, not every time


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

DDfusion said:


> MECA VA. Which did have some good cars show up most of the times, not every time


year? specific events?


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

2011-12 time frame. I tried to find them on the site but they only have SPL results.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

sqnut said:


> True but the sound that those 1% have is what 99% are tuning for. Listen to some of those cars and you'll understand.....maybe.


And the 99% would be better served with something like MS8 then their tuning ability to get close to that IMO. Let's face it tuning isn't easy.

I've have had various processors and I've gotten it to sound good but it never really got close to what MS8 does so quickly. And my tunes would sound great on some songs and **** on others. MS8 has it's magic work great on all. Huge time saver when changing the system with different components or locations.

One of the big things though is I like installing and swapping gear (like many here of course) more so then tuning. So MS8 is perfect for me as it removes the painful part of the process. I know many love the tuning process and thus MS8 wouldn't satisfy their craving for that part of the hobby.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

AAAAAAA said:


> And the 99% would be better served with something like MS8 then their tuning ability to get close to that IMO. Let's face it tuning isn't easy.


For 95% yes, at least let there be that 4% as tuners. I agree that tuning is a b****, it takes a long time time to figure it out and then 2X that time to dial things in. It eats up a ton of time. But you will go further with manual. 





AAAAAAA said:


> One of the big things though is I like installing and swapping gear (like many here of course) more so then tuning. So MS8 is perfect for me as it removes the painful part of the process. I know many love the tuning process and thus MS8 wouldn't satisfy their craving for that part of the hobby.


Swapping equipment is a bit like going around in circles. The magic is in the tune, not the equipment.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

sqnut said:


> Swapping equipment is a bit like going around in circles. The magic is in the tune, not the equipment.



Oh but it's so fun when you spend weeks looking at every driver on PE and madi 6 or 7 x just to pick out that new driver to try. Than you get it and go do circles again. And again. The pain is so fun sometimes .


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

sqnut said:


> For 95% yes, at least let there be that 4% as tuners. I agree that tuning is a b****, it takes a long time time to figure it out and then 2X that time to dial things in. It eats up a ton of time. But you will go further with manual.


It's *possible* to go further but you won't necessarily go further. I'll say most won't have the ability to go further... not only that they won't even get close.




> Swapping equipment is a bit like going around in circles. The magic is in the tune, not the equipment.


I completely agree. Still, just love getting my hands on new stuff and changing how things are installed\aimed.. complexafying then simplifying.


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## eric3514 (Nov 5, 2013)

Does anyone knows if the Helix Dsp Pro is center channel capable?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Has no upmixer if that is what you wondering.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I thought I would see more PS8 loving TBH.


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## eric3514 (Nov 5, 2013)

Me too, the Helix dsp pro is taking the lead so far...


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## Duncanbullet (Sep 19, 2013)

I currently have a MiniDSP 2x4 and its a neat little unit. Im really happy with it, and if it wasnt for me being an end-result perfectionist I would continue to use it. But since i'm literally crazy about my tuning (and by crazy, i mean spending 4 hours at a time messing with TA and EQ, plus taking the doors off every hour because i thought i heard a rattle) i got the Helix.


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## eric3514 (Nov 5, 2013)

Duncanbullet said:


> I currently have a MiniDSP 2x4 and its a neat little unit. Im really happy with it, and if it wasnt for me being an end-result perfectionist I would continue to use it. But since i'm literally crazy about my tuning (and by crazy, i mean spending 4 hours at a time messing with TA and EQ, plus taking the doors off every hour because i thought i heard a rattle) i got the Helix.


Did you just got the helix? or you already have several time with it?


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## Duncanbullet (Sep 19, 2013)

eric3514 said:


> Did you just got the helix? or you already have several time with it?


I got the helix the day i wrote that, ive got about 3 days experience with it now. and i absolutely love it. its far more advance then the miniDSP


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## eric3514 (Nov 5, 2013)

Duncanbullet said:


> I got the helix the day i wrote that, ive got about 3 days experience with it now. and i absolutely love it. its far more advance then the miniDSP


Please write a small review for us to see how it went for you


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## Duncanbullet (Sep 19, 2013)

So after about a week of use with the Helix DSP, I must say.. this is one of the most powerful and versatile DSPs on the market. 

Once you get past setting it up (which isnt really that hard. just figuring out the I/O's)
everything is a breeze. They have a time portion of the software where you can easy mute channels, TA, change phase, and group channels. 

And the EQ is more complex than my studio EQ plugin. 
you have 31 bangs of graphic that can also be changed to parametric to move it how you want. 
this helped me a alot because i have a big peak at 71 and i wanted to gently smooth that area out. The parametric feature helped me out by allowing to change the Q on the band rather than just pull down the EQ band. 

Over all this unit is superb and i dont think ill be using anything else.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Yes many rave about this dsp. 

All that you mentioned the RF 3Sixty.3 does the same, all in one window view so you can fine tune and adjust settings without changing windows and needing to go back and forth. I think Helix has 10 ch vs 8ch on the RF, and maybe the increments are better calibrated/smaller on the Helix.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Yup. Helix DSP Pro is the dog's dangly bits.


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

only ever used ms8 and 360.3; i much prefer being able to dial things in myself. in fact, it really helps me understand things better. i really enjoy the user interface on the 360.3 as well, but it has it's moments of being glitchy. it does everything i need it to do, except center channel summing/logic.

i do like the idea of 10 channels, though, so maybe in the future the helix will be an option since people seem to really like it.


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## xxx_busa (May 4, 2009)

no love for the Carrozzerria RS P99X ???


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

Not many people have the pockets for that pure awesome to review here.


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## Aw335tt (Sep 27, 2014)

subterFUSE said:


> More output with smaller stacks, and the drivers are point-source.


Have you had a chance to listen to the Funktion One Vero system?


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## ndm (Jul 5, 2007)

After giving it some time to think, I narrowed it down to the DSP Pro. They have really impressed me with their support of their product.

Mosconi 6to8 v8 was a close second but the DSP pro features that are released just keep racking up.....Bravo to the DSP Pro.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Aw335tt said:


> Have you had a chance to listen to the Funktion One Vero system?



Not certain if I have or not? The best F1 system I have heard was at Fabric in London. It was good but the Phazon at Twilo in NY in the late 1990s was better.

The Synergy Horn technology that Danley Sound is pushing these days is something special. True point source speakers, with the drivers physically aligned so there is no need for time delay to align the drivers. The compression drivers are at the back of the horn, the mids in front of them and the bass drivers toward the mouth. You can see demos where they setup a Danley horn outside and play music from hundreds of yards away and it sounds like you have headphones on.

The most noticeable difference is that they can achieve such high output with small stacks. When they were doing demos a lot of people looked at the stacks before hearing them and assumed they couldn't do much because of the size. When they hear them, they're like .

Probably the best testimony is when DJs themselves are seeking out your gear from overseas. John Digweed specifically had a Pure Groove rig sent over to London for his Bedrock anniversary party last year. When he first heard the PG, he insisted on having it for his event even though they had no distribution in England at the time. That guy has played on pretty much every sound system known to man, and he had them go to the trouble to ship it from the US to London for 1 show.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Aw335tt (Sep 27, 2014)

Pure Groove was a very anticipated system for the Woogie stage at Lightning in a Bottle 2014, for 2015 the stage was rocking a F1 rig again. 

Anyways, I'd love to hear the pure groove stuff. I won't derail this thread anymore. 

Best processor for me has to be the ARC PS8, it's the only one I've had experience with.


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## Aw335tt (Sep 27, 2014)

subterFUSE said:


> Not certain if I have or not? The best F1 system I have heard was at Fabric in London. It was good but the Phazon at Twilo in NY in the late 1990s was better.
> 
> The Synergy Horn technology that Danley Sound is pushing these days is something special. True point source speakers, with the drivers physically aligned so there is no need for time delay to align the drivers. The compression drivers are at the back of the horn, the mids in front of them and the bass drivers toward the mouth. You can see demos where they setup a Danley horn outside and play music from hundreds of yards away and it sounds like you have headphones on.
> 
> ...


I really want to hear the F1 system they have at Space, in Ibiza. I have been to an event that had a Danley setup, it wasn't the pure groove stuff though. It did sound really good. I have to say, the way they get so many speakers in 1 box is pretty impressive. The J1 has 15 drivers inside, the J2 has 42 total drivers in 1 box, both boxes are 60X45. That's about the size of 4 Funktion 1 Evo6 boxes but Pure Groove packs a lot more drivers. 

There is an event today in LA that uses Pure Groove systems. I might check it out when they bring a good dj one of these days. 

Check out "Tipper @ Red Rocks Amphitheater " videos, they are using the new Vero F1 system.


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

For the price the MiniDSP 2x8 cannot be beat and it has one of the sexiest interfaces.

miniDSP Kits : miniDSP 2x8 kit



















I am seriously thinking about this one for the new Mustang.


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## Hammer1 (Jan 30, 2011)

I have used the Zapco dsp8, the audison bit one and now use the Mosconi 6to8 v8. The Mosconi is by far the best one of the three.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Once I did the updates to the 3SIXTY.3 its had ZERO glitches or issues. Very stable on my Win8 laptop.

I just wish they had a device app for this already!


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## ImLoudEK (Dec 2, 2014)

If I had a chance to redo my system I'd go helix, heard enough good things, the p99 does not have a user friendly interface and feels somewhat outdated...it is a good hu spec wise...


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

The best DSP.....

I think all it has to do is(maybe a couple other things I might have missed?)...

Send a clean good volt signal out 
with as many tunable frequencies possible 
with Q adjust 
with independent speaker adjust 
as well as paired for equal L/R 
remote knob control for volume and sub is super nice
3 or more memory slots is good
as many connections as possible is helpful(optical, bluetooth, etc)
maybe some help with auto tune a flat signal, 
auto tune the clip volume out is nice, 
and have a stable system
user friendly interface. see all adjust controls in one screen
be accurate in its adjustments
have small increments with good range to fine tune adjustments
good connection options
8 or more channels

Which DSP is NOT offering these things?

If it does these things, then whats the problem?


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

I've used all of them except the Rainbow. From my perspective, they fall into 2 categories. 

1. Processors designed to integrate with factory systems.
2. Processors that are designed to be used with aftermarket radios.

Far too much attention is given to bit depth and sample rate. These things don't really matter.


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## Niick (Jun 3, 2015)

I recently tuned a vehicle that had the the Helix DSP (8ch) in it. I liked it. The things I liked about it were how you could, at any time, choose any number or combination of the available channels to be delayed at once, keeping the delta (relative) times the same, then just as easily you can remove any or all channels from the delay group. 

So that was cool.

What wasn't cool about my experience with the helix was that there didn't SEEM to be a way to invert the POLARITY of any one channel with the click of the mouse. There was a phase control, but moving it to the 180 position does not invert your IR the same way as an actual "invert channel" function does. This was a bummer for me, as I did NOT perform the installation (only the tuning) and the subs polarity needed to be reversed from where it started for me to achieve the type of alignment I was after. 

Therefore, I had to remove the subwoofer and switch the wiring at the terminals. An "invert" button would have made this much faster. 

I believe the phase slider on the helix is an all pass filter engaged when you select any crossover other than thru, or full, or bypass, or whatever. 

Other than that, I really liked the helix best so far. Out of the ones I've used, Bit One, 360.3, Bit ten, Helix. 

Helix is the winner when it comes to tune-ability.

which one is best for connection to factory radios, hmmmmm......I think they all have a ways to go.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

In the Helix software you can turn off the phase angle adjustment for the midbass drivers by selecting "Low" instead of "Mid" in the I/O menu. At that point, the phase slider becomes a 0/180 invert switch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Niick (Jun 3, 2015)

subterFUSE said:


> In the Helix software you can turn off the phase angle adjustment for the midbass drivers by selecting "Low" instead of "Mid" in the I/O menu. At that point, the phase slider becomes a 0/180 invert switch.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Aha!! 

What about tweeters and subwoofer?


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Niick said:


> Aha!!
> 
> What about tweeters and subwoofer?



Don't think so. Just the drivers labeled as Low.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> I've used all of them except the Rainbow. From my perspective, they fall into 2 categories.
> 
> 1. Processors designed to integrate with factory systems.
> 2. Processors that are designed to be used with aftermarket radios.
> ...


Too bad, I had the rainbow till recently, I could have lent it with pleasure.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have been using Zapco DC reference amps for at least 8 years.

Recently I switched my OEM source unit to a p99rs - just running one signal cable to the amps, so not using it for time/level adjustments... But I must say, adding the 31-band stereo graphic eq on top of my Zapco processing is very nice. Allowed me to further fine tune band-limited pink noise to be dead on centered across the spectrum. 

Very pleased with the two working together.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

there must be a couple other DSP's that are very popular as its taken the second lead in the poll! This list to me is ignoring miniDSP and RF 3.Sixty.3, and perhaps MS-8, which is more of an autotune, but at least the latter 2.


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## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

APL1 from the Acoustic Power Lab - is best for me when talking about the sound quality. 4096 FIR filters somply can not be beaten by 31 bånd EQ's. All my previous Alpine DSP's were kicked off by APL1, sorry.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Alextaastrup said:


> APL1 from the Acoustic Power Lab - is best for me when talking about the sound quality. 4096 FIR filters somply can not be beaten by 31 bånd EQ's. All my previous Alpine DSP's were kicked off by APL1, sorry.



Looks interesting. When they make a car version that is 96k sample rate I might consider it. 


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## Gadget01 (Oct 20, 2008)

My vote based on my personal experience is the Mosconi 6to8. I went to it from a older version Bit One that quit on me. It's worth noting the 6to8, when equipped with the digital IO board and AMAS Bluetooth module can directly stream high bandwidth HD audio formats.

Others worth consideration are the Ground Zero DSP and Kicker Q-class amplifier/DSP.


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## Dannotech (Mar 25, 2015)

My favorite from a flexibility standpoint is the arc audio ps8. I haven't used the helix dsp pro, but from what I've seen, I think I would love that one as well.


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## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

Gadget01 said:


> My vote based on my personal experience is the Mosconi 6to8. I went to it from a older version Bit One that quit on me. It's worth noting the 6to8, when equipped with the digital IO board and AMAS Bluetooth module can directly stream high bandwidth HD audio formats.
> 
> Others worth consideration are the Ground Zero DSP and Kicker Q-class amplifier/DSP.


Sorry, but not high resolution formats... CD quality for AMAS is ok.


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## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

The same is with AMAS2.


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## Gadget01 (Oct 20, 2008)

Alextaastrup said:


> Sorry, but not high resolution formats... CD quality for AMAS is ok.


Alex, I believe you are correct but there is some misunderstanding since the Mosconi website says:

"- It supports A2DP in the high-resolution EDR specification by any source like mobiles/pads/tabs with iOS/Android or…
- Data transfer also of uncompressed files and directly into the digital section of the DSP so the best possible signal flow for absolute High-End Sound
- 3 simultaneous connections (control/handsfree-set/audio), but only one audio source
- Bit rate up to 2.1 Mbit/sec
- Supported codes: SBC, MP3, AAC, Flac, Loss-Less, Wave
- Including an antenna extension cable if the 6to8 location is e.g. in a closed trunk"


It does not say what the maximum bit rate/sampling rate is handled by the DSP, but this review document says this about it:

"Streaming via Bluetooth in the A2DP profile can reach a data flow of 3 Mb/s in the version 2.0 + EDR, and can support many music file formats, compressed or not."

The owner's manual is not much help. It seems the only "reference" for how to explore what the 6to8 DSP is capable of is in this DIYMA thread.

I have not purchased the AMAS or SPDIF modules for the 6to8 so I do not speak from personal experience. I prefer my Alpine head unit's interface to select from my lossless library on a 64GB ipod touch via USB.

AMAS is a nice feature for those that want to stay with their OEM head unit or use an tablet (or other wireless device) as a source.


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## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

Right,
96/24 demand at least 3 Mbit/sec, but not 2,1. Not even talking about 192/24, dsd, etc. APTX technology makes it possible to reduce the compression level, but again, it is not perfect... Still waiting for imprementation of APTX-lossless in consumer devices.

Of course it is still not comparable with the wired connection. It is a compromise, the wireless gives: convenient and quick connection against sound quality. The only possibility uptill now for high quality sound streaming - wi-fi. The last Google unit: Chromecast-audio could be a solution - just as an example. But this will need two devices (one for host features, another - for streaming).

Me personally - stick still to wired solution in the car due to the abovementioned restrictions.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

DSD is too much data for any of the car audio DSP units to accept. That's why the new Sony deck can't play DSD over the optical output. Has to decode the stream in the head unit and send out analog. Helix Pro has the highest sample rate of any car DSP on the market but it's only 96k. Everyone else is 48k.

I don't think there is even a pro audio DSP that can decode DSD, for that matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fcarpio (Apr 29, 2008)

I have used:


MiniDSP 2x8
Mosconi 6to8
Alpine PXA-H700
Audison Bit Ten
AudioControl DQDX

And I like them from best to worst in that order.


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## neoysj (Nov 20, 2014)

APL1 RCA sound processor + Arc Audio PS8 (mod opamp with Sparkos Labs Discrete SS3602)


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## Gadget01 (Oct 20, 2008)

Alextaastrup said:


> Right,
> 96/24 demand at least 3 Mbit/sec, but not 2,1. Not even talking about 192/24, dsd, etc. APTX technology makes it possible to reduce the compression level, but again, it is not perfect... Still waiting for imprementation of APTX-lossless in consumer devices.
> 
> Of course it is still not comparable with the wired connection. It is a compromise, the wireless gives: convenient and quick connection against sound quality. The only possibility uptill now for high quality sound streaming - wi-fi. The last Google unit: Chromecast-audio could be a solution - just as an example. But this will need two devices (one for host features, another - for streaming).
> ...


Agreed on all points. I also prefer a hardwired connection.

One of the problems is the diminishing return on investment of being able to reliably distinguish between a lossless 44.1/16bit and DSD or 192khz/24bit in your vehicle, and that's when you are critically listening without the distraction and noise floor from driving. You are going to have to invest exponentially more $$/tuning effort to achieve the last 5 to 10% of "ultimate" sound quality. Even well-trained ears are challenged to distinguish between a 320kbps MP3 vs FLAC/ALAC 44.1/16bit. If you are faced with deciding on a DSP based on having an optical toslink input or other "must-have" features, consider the value of your investment. If your car is prone to induced noise with all the usual noise abatement measures applied, then perhaps going with optical interconnects is a good solution. 

Thanks for the discussion.


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## ssclassa60 (Jan 28, 2013)

Sub'd


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

The best dsp is the one that offers finest resolution with fewest software issues. Of those currently in the market, the Helix DSP Pro is a clear winner. Finer resolution means it will take longer to dial in but you'll go further. I don't think it has any established software issues, which is great cause the last thing you want after paying a grand is to deal with software issues .


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## Niick (Jun 3, 2015)

I agree.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

The best DSP is the one that gives the person using the best results. 
A forum boner DSP is only as good as the tuner.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

DDfusion said:


> Any DSP is only as good as the tuner.


Fixed it for ya and ya it's true. But assuming you know how to tune the Pro does offer the finest resolution, forum boner or not and it doesn't have software issues.................and it's streets ahead of the ms8.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

sqnut said:


> Fixed it for ya and ya it's true. But assuming you know how to tune the Pro does offer the finest resolution, forum boner or not and it doesn't have software issues.................and it's streets ahead of the ms8.


It does not un-EQ. So it's not streets ahead for everybody. And not everyone has a expert in their house.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

DDfusion said:


> It does not un-EQ. So it's not streets ahead for everybody. And not everyone has a expert in their house.


With an OEM source with built in eq, de-equalization just becomes part of tuning. After market hu's don't need de-eq.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

DDfusion said:


> It does not un-EQ. So it's not streets ahead for everybody. And not everyone has a expert in their house.


It does have Parametric Input EQ now. They updated the software and added that feature recently.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

sqnut said:


> With an OEM source with built in eq, de-equalization just becomes part of tuning. After market hu's don't need de-eq.


Not everyone has a aftermarket HU. And it's only a part of tuning at the tuning volume. Again, some people want to keep everything stock as possible.


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## nizerims (Jun 22, 2015)

I don't make love to my Helix DSP Pro. I pound it. Hard.


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## cajunner (Apr 13, 2007)

nizerims said:


> I don't make love to my Helix DSP Pro. I pound it. Hard.


it appears the DIYMA Admin have become less complacent about this kind of language.

I'd edit the post so as not to incite the ire of the overlords, but you can do what you want since I am not offended personally.


it could be possibly admitted based on no other word really expressing the intent of your actions towards the processor, and surely some modification is necessary for true intercourse to occur, unless you are into pain?

although low on the threat alert level, a string of profanity laden posting can be construed as taking liberties that are outside of the conventional poster suite of permissions.

I would proceed cautiously, doing very little heavy thrusting or graphic expletives allotted to the treatment of DSP's, as a protected class...


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

He has a NY license plate as an avatar. We should not expect unrealistic standards. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Thump!


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## ImLoudEK (Dec 2, 2014)

subterFUSE said:


> He has a NY license plate as an avatar. We should not expect unrealistic standards.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I'm from ny...what is that supposed to mean?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ImLoudEK (Dec 2, 2014)

cajunner said:


> it appears the DIYMA Admin have become less complacent about this kind of language.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol ok...


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

ImLoudEK said:


> I'm from ny...what is that supposed to mean?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It was a joke, as indicated by the 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Since you quoted it, I had to fix two posts rather than one...




cajunner said:


> it appears the DIYMA Admin have become less complacent about this kind of language.
> 
> I'd edit the post so as not to incite the ire of the overlords, but you can do what you want since I am not offended personally.
> 
> ...


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

I have owned and tested all of the following in different applications but my fav's from best to worst

*Rane 88* most favorite DSP
Pros: very flexible with tuning, lots of channels, easy to tune with laptop and most of all sounds like HIGH END home audio (line in/ line out)

Cons: not very reliable, large, power supply has to be modified, difficult to get ground noises out

*PS8*
Pros: very flexible with lots of tuning possibilities, easy to tune with laptop, small foot print, able to change opAmps, sounds simular to the rane (line in/ Line out)

Cons: can be buggy at times, difficult to get noises out of the line, NO REMOTE (Really arc, REALLY!!?!?!?!?!? Just give me volume control and source switch, damn the rest of the extras)

*6To8*
Pros: Easy to plug and play, Lots of possibilities for expansion, Easy to use remote, shelf filters, sound is warm and close to home audio but lacks the openess of the PS8

Cons: limited tuning capabilities depending on the channel choosen but you can get creative, left wanting more realistic sound when compared to the PS8, without a controller difficult to stop the clipping monitor (keeps shutting off unit)

*Helix CDSP/ PRO* Helix Pro over C-DSP
Pros: Very easy to use, No bugs, easy install plug and play, digital input with control, functional, lotts of tuning capabilities

Cons: Sounds like car audio NOT home audio left wanting alot more, when compared with PS8. Digital input difficult to tell the difference between this and 6to8. But the analog input on the Helix pro sound almost exactly like the digital input. 


BTW When I was testing the units above I did have the Tru line driver in place and I used and oscilloscope to measure all inputs one stage at a time... (I got more than just a piece of wire  )

Honorable mentiton
Not gonna get into details but will put in order best to worst
Zapco DSP6 (sound simular to Cdsp)
Pioneer p99 (when I used this I came in last place at heatwave I think 4 years ago, like 8th)
Audison Bitone
Alpine H701


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

matdotcom2000 said:


> I have owned and tested all of the following in different applications but my fav's from best to worst
> 
> *Rane 88* most favorite DSP
> Pros: very flexible with tuning, lots of channels, easy to tune with laptop and most of all sounds like HIGH END home audio (line in/ line out)
> ...


Processors don't come with a built in, "sounds like home audio / car audio".


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

sqnut said:


> Processors don't come with a built in, "sounds like home audio / car audio".


Say what you like but I like to use my ears verse measuring equipment and this my subjective opinion... When I listened to the rane 88 and the ps8 to ME it sounded simular to when I was sitting in my boys eriks house listening to his HIGH END Home audio Equipment... I guess you could say it sounded more open and revealing but there is no measurements to show that as well... But Like I say ITs My OPINION.... appreciate your comment....










THIS is why I stopped posting soooo MUCH.... I am a Nurse with ears who just likes good sounding vehicles, I dont know technical terms jeeeez...  
<----- Check out my years I been lurking 

BTW I will say that One of the BEST CARS I have heard was JOHNS (subterFUSE) car at finals I knew he was gonna beat me... (He got second at finals to TIM  whos truck was insane)


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

matdotcom2000 said:


> Say what you like but I like to use my ears verse measuring equipment and this my subjective opinion... When I listened to the rane 88 and the ps8 to ME it sounded simular to when I was sitting in my boys eriks house listening to his HIGH END Home audio Equipment... I guess you could say it sounded more open and revealing but there is no measurements to show that as well... But Like I say ITs My OPINION.... appreciate your comment....
> 
> THIS is why I stopped posting soooo MUCH.... I am a Nurse with ears who just likes good sounding vehicles, I dont know technical terms jeeeez...
> <----- Check out my years I been lurking
> ...


Whoa, slow down there buddy, you probably won't find a more tune by ear guy than me on this site. I mean I know there are others who tune primarily by ear on here, folks who do really well in competitions. However, some just don't visit and post too often, while others do it but don't talk about it. I'm the odd ball here who talks about it all the time. I've spent 3-4 years learning how to use my ears and how to tune and then another couple dialing in the sound. I KNOW what using your ears means.

However, hearing a difference could be on many counts other than the processor itself. Maybe your tune with the Rane was better than the one on Helix. Just like John and Tim had better tunes at finals. The Helix has better resolution than the Rane and hence with the right tune should take you further. It's just basics of tuning, one of those iron clad rules.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

matdotcom2000 said:


> BTW I will say that One of the BEST CARS I have heard was JOHNS (subterFUSE) car at finals


Helix DSP Pro :rimshot: :laugh:


Seriously, though.... I think there is something to what you're saying about DSPs having a different sound signature. Differences in OpAmps can certainly have an effect. People have swapped them in the PS8 and reported a more "open" sound.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

I have to change my response to the Pioneer ODR RS-P90X. Strictly on the raw sound. Wish the TA function had finer steps though.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

subterFUSE said:


> Helix DSP Pro :rimshot: :laugh:
> 
> 
> Seriously, though.... I think there is something to what you're saying about DSPs having a different sound signature. Differences in OpAmps can certainly have an effect. People have swapped them in the PS8 and reported a more "open" sound.


Someday I have to swap electronics and see if there is really an audible difference, with exact same everything else. Of the processors I've used, I've never felt that any of them had an overall sonic character. They had different resolutions and hence the overall sound is _slightly_ better with the one with better resolution. Assuming you're tuning in the smallest steps available. 

But other than that, I didn't find different processors to have different 'sounds'. I'm assuming the different processors had different electronics, so parts and circuits combo A vs B. Now if we can hear the difference between our regular vs exotic electronic as more open, then we should be able to tell the difference between combo A vs B as hmm..maybe kinda better to nah I prefer my reg. Imho resolution and the overall tune make more of a difference than swapping electronics.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

There was a night and day difference between the Rane and everything else that I have had in my car...including the Alpine H900 that replaced the Rane for about months...and then I swapped the Rane back in.

The Zapco DSP6 was good, and on the level of the Rane sound wise after it was modified.

I found huge differences in the sonic signatures of processors back then.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Got your back on the Rane...know exactly what you are talking about.




matdotcom2000 said:


> Say what you like but I like to use my ears verse measuring equipment and this my subjective opinion... When I listened to the rane 88 and the ps8 to ME it sounded simular to when I was sitting in my boys eriks house listening to his HIGH END Home audio Equipment... I guess you could say it sounded more open and revealing but there is no measurements to show that as well... But Like I say ITs My OPINION.... appreciate your comment....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Aw335tt (Sep 27, 2014)

subterFUSE said:


> Helix DSP Pro :rimshot: :laugh:
> 
> 
> Seriously, though.... I think there is something to what you're saying about DSPs having a different sound signature. Differences in OpAmps can certainly have an effect. People have swapped them in the PS8 and reported a more "open" sound.


I got the LM4562 op amps but haven't swapped them yet. The whole "electrostatic sensitive" part worried me a bit. I don't have a electrostatic free work area. Does anyone know where I can get it done?


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## Niick (Jun 3, 2015)

Aw335tt said:


> I got the LM4562 op amps but haven't swapped them yet. The whole "electrostatic sensitive" part worried me a bit. I don't have a electrostatic free work area. Does anyone know where I can get it done?


I think you can make your self (and your work area) electrostatic safe by wearing a grounding strap around your wrist, and having a grounded, "electrostatic safe" mat, like a giant mouse pad looking thing, on your work station. Just google them/look em up on eBay. 

I THINK ANYWAYS. I'm pretty sure this is how you'd do it. Otherwise, any electronic repair type person/place should be able to help 

11 8"x22" 2 Layer ESD Anti Static Work Bench Desktop Mat Repair Testing Assembly | eBay

Anti Static Antistatic ESD Adjustable Wrist Strap Band Blue | eBay


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## Aw335tt (Sep 27, 2014)

Niick said:


> I think you can make your self (and your work area) electrostatic safe by wearing a grounding strap around your wrist, and having a grounded, "electrostatic safe" mat, like a giant mouse pad looking thing, on your work station. Just google them/look em up on eBay.
> 
> I THINK ANYWAYS. I'm pretty sure this is how you'd do it. Otherwise, any electronic repair type person/place should be able to help
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I watched a video on YouTube on it I just didn't realize it would be so cheap. Thanks for the links!


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> Got your back on the Rane...know exactly what you are talking about.


Aprreciate that, looks like we have somewhat the same type of hearing Q's...



sqnut said:


> Whoa, slow down there buddy, you probably won't find a more tune by ear guy than me on this site. I mean I know there are others who tune primarily by ear on here, folks who do really well in competitions. However, some just don't visit and post too often, while others do it but don't talk about it. I'm the odd ball here who talks about it all the time. I've spent 3-4 years learning how to use my ears and how to tune and then another couple dialing in the sound. I KNOW what using your ears means.
> 
> However, hearing a difference could be on many counts other than the processor itself. Maybe your tune with the Rane was better than the one on Helix. Just like John and Tim had better tunes at finals. The Helix has better resolution than the Rane and hence with the right tune should take you further. It's just basics of tuning, one of those iron clad rules.


First of all let me say I took it personally when you directly stated what is home audio sound, to my post... So I got in touch with with my ovaries and returned fire with my little post... No doubting your ears but just backing up my post... All is fair... 
So now on to more about these home audio DSP units... I will agree a modified dsp6 is somewhat simular to the rane but to me it still lacked where the PS8 succeeded.... When ever I build a system it is my goal to build the Cheapest but yet best sounding system that I can, I say that to say I am not wowed by names or what someone else is saying or what the latest forum boner is.... So if I test it and it sounds badass and it cheaper 9/10 I am keeping it, bottom line... Main reason I havent sold my DRZ9255 its pound for pound the best Headunit Analog out, but my hands down favorite was the Alpine 7990 but it cost too much to maintain so I went with cheaper option that sounded better than anything in its cost range... The same goes with my PS8 resale is about 500 and to me it sounds better than anything in its price range and above which includes the helix pro... but the Pro has lotttts of other benefits and the PS8 only sound about 5 to 10% better... To be honest I am thinking of going back to the PRO if Arc doesnt release a controller in the next 4 months (Thanks to John)...




BTW mosconi maybe releasing a new DSP bigger and better than the 6to8, maybe even the PS8 (even with a remote??) (NOW that is something that I can wrap my head around because one thing I have learned is that ORCA does what they say their gonna DO, BEBE shot fired at ARC even though they killed at finals, shout out to Brian and Scott (BTW Scotts car is on another level completely))


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

matdotcom2000 said:


> First of all let me say I took it personally when you directly stated what is home audio sound, to my post... So I got in touch with with my ovaries and returned fire with my little post... No doubting your ears but just backing up my post... All is fair...
> So now on to more about these home audio DSP units... I will agree a modified dsp6 is somewhat simular to the rane but to me it still lacked where the PS8 succeeded.... When ever I build a system it is my goal to build the Cheapest but yet best sounding system that I can, I say that to say I am not wowed by names or what someone else is saying or what the latest forum boner is.... So if I test it and it sounds badass and it cheaper 9/10 I am keeping it, bottom line... Main reason I havent sold my DRZ9255 its pound for pound the best Headunit Analog out, but my hands down favorite was the Alpine 7990 but it cost too much to maintain so I went with cheaper option that sounded better than anything in its cost range... The same goes with my PS8 resale is about 500 and to me it sounds better than anything in its price range and above which includes the helix pro... but the Pro has lotttts of other benefits and the PS8 only sound about 5 to 10% better... To be honest I am thinking of going back to the PRO if Arc doesnt release a controller in the next 4 months (Thanks to John)...
> 
> 
> ...


It's all good and I'm not questioning you, like you I was just voicing an opinion.


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

I have been wondering about the miniDSP 8x8 for a while and how it would be compared to the PS8.. It looks to have some limitations but I just wonder how it would compare sound signature wise.


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

matdotcom2000 said:


> I have been wondering about the miniDSP 8x8 for a while and how it would be compared to the PS8.. It looks to have some limitations but I just wonder how it would compare sound signature wise.



The real issue with the miniDSP stuff is that the options for volume control are not great. The VOL-FP can't be remotely mounted very far from the main board, according to miniDSP. It's also an endless encoder knob and people complain it takes a million turns to get the volume up or down.

In other words, it's a little clunky compared to a car audio DSP like the Helix, Mosconi or Audison.


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## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

subterFUSE said:


> The real issue with the miniDSP stuff is that the options for volume control are not great. The VOL-FP can't be remotely mounted very far from the main board, according to miniDSP. It's also an endless encoder knob and people complain it takes a million turns to get the volume up or down.
> 
> In other words, it's a little clunky compared to a car audio DSP like the Helix, Mosconi or Audison.


You should be able to adjust that with a few calculations and a rotary encoder maybe but I would have to play with it some and talk with them to see what could be adjusted.


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## Niick (Jun 3, 2015)

Speaking of DSP's, look what came cross my bench this morning.....


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## percy072 (Feb 13, 2014)

Has anyone used Ground Zero's processor??

Ground Zero GZCS 6-8DSP

I think my MS-8's day's are numbered...I just cannot get this thing to a level of output I'm trying to get. Why the hell it was designed to max out at 2.8 pre-amp  I know most will say that should not be an issue but it def seems to be the road block in my case. 

Still waiting for pricing on the GZ unit, was just interested in any feedback on it.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

percy072 said:


> Has anyone used Ground Zero's processor??
> 
> Ground Zero GZCS 6-8DSP
> 
> ...


I'll be the first one to say it shouldn't be an issue lol. But the ground zero seems like another zapco dsp clone, kinda like the dd and ampere ones

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## percy072 (Feb 13, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> I'll be the first one to say it shouldn't be an issue lol.


I've been eyeballing the Z8 as well. Problem with the JBL is I have to keep it's master volume down to minimize noise floor so real world output to amp's (in my car) is closer to 0.8-0.9V MAX

Maybe the Arc just needs more?? dunno...and I need to stick with OEM integration.


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## Gadget01 (Oct 20, 2008)

percy072 said:


> Has anyone used Ground Zero's processor??
> 
> Ground Zero GZCS 6-8DSP
> 
> ...



I installed one in a friend's C5 Vette. Nice unit, all the usual options. GUI looks a little dated vs others but it's effective. Did not spend much time with it- only did initial X-over and basic level controls. Most compact remote control of any DSP I've seen and has an integrated USB port for tuning. No problems with it at all.


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## Jani X (Sep 10, 2009)

The UI on Helix DSP (pro) is fantastic. Took me about 1 hour to learn and master with one hand on a laptop touchpad and the arrowkeys  
I still haven't found anything I couldn't do with this DSP, and it's all there in the same view. Not on several windows, like the H800 etc.

No SQ issues compared to my previous devices, 99 and the F1-set.

Very important to do the setupping and level-adjusting right, and to use hi-quality shielded interconnects into the DSP, for background noisefloor issues. (specially with analog sources)


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## T3mpest (Dec 25, 2005)

percy072 said:


> SkizeR said:
> 
> 
> > I'll be the first one to say it shouldn't be an issue lol.
> ...


My ms8 is basically silent. I run mine on -6 and have no issues. You sure your not picking up noise somewhere else?


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## percy072 (Feb 13, 2014)

T3mpest said:


> My ms8 is basically silent. I run mine on -6 and have no issues. You sure your not picking up noise somewhere else?


I'm 99% sure it's the processor I'm hearing. I can get it to almost dead quiet as well if I set the master volume closer to -8 db's, but have FA for output as a result. I try to compensate using the amp gains...but then I'm back to background noise at lower volumes and/or between songs.


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## percy072 (Feb 13, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> I'll be the first one to say it shouldn't be an issue lol.


In my head it's like powering a light bulb with only 60 Volts vs 120 Volts...it will only be half as bright with half the power. I'm sure it's not an accurate comparison, just how I see it as an electrician.


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

I had to set the HU volume and start using the remote only. Much better. I think our decks have a lot of boost at low volume and the MS-8 isn't correcting it


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## RXZILLA (Dec 16, 2007)

The hard thing about DSP is the PC. Smaller is cool but I do miss the Audio control dials...sometimes


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

RXZILLA said:


> The hard thing about DSP is the PC. Smaller is cool but I do miss the Audio control dials...sometimes



But if your kid moves the dials you'll wish you had a DSP with the tune saved as a backup. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RXZILLA (Dec 16, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> But if your kid moves the dials you'll wish you had a DSP with the tune saved as a backup.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




so true...lol


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## Vacas (Oct 15, 2014)

Well... The smartest dsp that came across my setup is still my best dsp and its Helix C dsp.. You can have the control via its director making it hesseless and no more time consumption with PCs.... Wht do u think about it ??

Sent from my i6 using Tapatalk


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## Niick (Jun 3, 2015)

Vacas said:


> Well... The smartest dsp that came across my setup is still my best dsp and its Helix C dsp.. You can have the control via its director making it hesseless and no more time consumption with PCs.... Wht do u think about it ??
> 
> Sent from my i6 using Tapatalk


ive never actuall experienced it but it seems like that would be way harder to tune, making it more, rather than less, time consuming?


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## HulkSmash (May 22, 2011)

FYI, there's a Rane 88 on ebay right now.


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## canuck (Jan 10, 2014)

saying home audio equipment is the best. Not cost effective or intergration simplicity.
12v equipment is what it is.
F1 or 701 as it had optical in... so no noise issues and best bang fot the buck. For new stuff sounds like the helix is most stable


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## MisterB (Dec 24, 2015)

Has anybody here ever used XTA processors?


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## Yawar538 (Aug 28, 2013)

Niick said:


> ive never actuall experienced it but it seems like that would be way harder to tune, making it more, rather than less, time consuming?


Thats the most easiest and most accurate way of using dsp. The helix software provides even the most minimalistic increments to be adjusted via the pc software.

The best dsp IMO is the DSP Pro by Helix blowing every other dsp out of the water..

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


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## Vacas (Oct 15, 2014)

Nice 1 Yawar

Sent from my i6 using Tapatalk


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## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

Yawar538 said:


> Thats the most easiest and most accurate way of using dsp. The helix software provides even the most minimalistic increments to be adjusted via the pc software.
> 
> The best dsp IMO is the DSP Pro by Helix blowing every other dsp out of the water..
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


It is one of the best, true. But perhaps not the best. If we talking of functionality - agree. Sound quality - APL1 is a definite leader with 4096 FIR taps and rather sofisticated maths.

What about new item on the market from Steg?


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

I would call APL1 an EQ, not a DSP. It can't do multichannel crossover.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fullergoku (Jun 21, 2009)

Alextaastrup said:


> It is one of the best, true. But perhaps not the best. If we talking of functionality - agree. Sound quality - APL1 is a definite leader with 4096 FIR taps and rather sofisticated maths.
> 
> What about new item on the market from Steg?


Do you have a link or name for the new item from Steg?


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## Waves4dayz (Dec 13, 2015)

with everything i had to go through to get one (well the director actually)..... i sure hope youre right! 



Yawar538 said:


> The best dsp IMO is the DSP Pro by Helix blowing every other dsp out of the water..
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


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## Alextaastrup (Apr 12, 2014)

fullergoku said:


> Do you have a link or name for the new item from Steg?


STEG Kamaleon DSP

Connections:

8 high level inputs (18 vrms MAX)

8 low level inputs (200 mV rms to 8Vrms)

8 Analog outputs (8Vrms)

3 Spdif input (2 optical, 1 Coaxial) (32 - 96KHz)

2 Spdif output (32 - 96KHz)

2 Remote Output (Programmerbar delay 0 - 10 sek)

3 Control Switch input (for Navigation or phone)

1 option Bus for accessories (amplifier control, VA meters)

1 SD kort input (for save/load Konfiguration and software upload)

1 USB connector (for Pc)

Analog input section:

Differential input with high cmrr :90 dB @ 100kHz, THD 0.0005% @ 1kHz (INA2137)

Gain control -96 to +31.5 NJW1195A 1,26uVrm Output noise THD 0,001%

Differential ADC driver : OPA1632 4nV SQRT (HZ) THD 0.000022%

input ADC section: wolfsonmicro wm8687

24 bits 192KHz of sample rate THD -102dB -111dB S/N ratio

Digital input section:

Spdif receiver width VCXO PLL for reclock system (10 ps rms jitter)

Supported sample rate 32 - 96KHz

DSP section:

500mhz Dual core

48 bit (double precision) 96 bit accumulator for IIR Filter



STEG Kamaleon DSP - Soundplanet


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## Yawar538 (Aug 28, 2013)

Waves4dayz said:


> with everything i had to go through to get one (well the director actually)..... i sure hope youre right!


I hope you got it only because you intend to run digital ....

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


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## Waves4dayz (Dec 13, 2015)

Yawar538 said:


> I hope you got it only because you intend to run digital ....
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


Yeah i got it..... any chance you could put that in layman's terms for me ? are you talking about my source of music? (ipod touch)


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## MB2008LTZ (Oct 13, 2012)

Kind of off topic but does anyone know if there are any Helix dealers in eastern PA or the New York/New Jersey area....When I search the dealer locator on the website it shows nothing in the 300 mile radius, and it does not give me a list of dealers. The only one I can find is crutchfield and I would rather find a dealer close to home. Thanks


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

Any shop that sells Rockford Fosgate can get Helix.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Niick (Jun 3, 2015)

I'm needing help with understanding exactly how the EQ section of an Alpine H800 DSP works. First of all, can the GEQ AND the PEQ be used SIMULTANEOUSLY??

Also, no matter how I choose my output configuration, I can't seem to COMPLETELY SEPERATELY EQ each INDIVIDUAL drive unit. For example, it gives me the ability to separately EQ the FRONT LEFT from the FRONT RIGHT, but I don't seem to have a COMPLETELY SEPERATE EQ for the front left tweeter as opposed to the front right woofer. 

Does that make sense? Is this correct? Just making sure I fully understand how this bad boy works before crunch time 

Thanks to all and anyone who can help.


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## Niick (Jun 3, 2015)

Yawar538 said:


> Thats the most easiest and most accurate way of using dsp. The helix software provides even the most minimalistic increments to be adjusted via the pc software.
> 
> The best dsp IMO is the DSP Pro by Helix blowing every other dsp out of the water..
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


yes, I think we are agreeing here. I can't find the original post that I replied too, but it seems like I remember it being about NOT using a computer to tune, instead using a little controller, which is cool, but I can't imagine that ("that" being tuning via a little controller) being easier OR faster.


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## davewpy (Jun 22, 2014)

Niick said:


> I'm needing help with understanding exactly how the EQ section of an Alpine H800 DSP works. First of all, can the GEQ AND the PEQ be used SIMULTANEOUSLY??
> 
> Also, no matter how I choose my output configuration, I can't seem to COMPLETELY SEPERATELY EQ each INDIVIDUAL drive unit. For example, it gives me the ability to separately EQ the FRONT LEFT from the FRONT RIGHT, but I don't seem to have a COMPLETELY SEPERATE EQ for the front left tweeter as opposed to the front right woofer.
> 
> ...


IIRC I had the same experience when I helped with an OEM set-up.

Also, I wished it had 11.25 increments in phase shifts, individual driver EQ, more EQ bands and higher Q factor for each band.

To be fair, it's the only DSP that I know of that decodes DD and DTS.

I went Helix DSP Pro anyway.


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## percy072 (Feb 13, 2014)

Went from 80prs > MS-8 > PXA H-800, tried hard (real hard) to settle into the MS-8 but ultimately it wasn't for me. 

Got the Alpine installed this weekend and put in a good 2-3 hrs seat time after getting familiarized with it's software. The RUX is awesome for quick tweaks but in car with the laptop is definitely better. 

I know I've got a long ways to go (tuning) but I am absolutely loving this thing!! 

So far it's the best DSP *I* have used...


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## kaigoss69 (Apr 2, 2008)

MS-8 because it tunes much much better than me.


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## Precisionmike (Jun 15, 2014)

I am torn between the PS8 and DSP Pro. Can someone please confirm these questions?
On FB, ARC mentioned that, "With the updates coming the PS8 will accept digital source inputs up to 96kHz". Does this mean they have increase the sampling from 48khz to 96khz, or does it still down sample to 48khz?
Also, I have read different max crossover slopes for both the ARC and HELIX. Can someone please confirm? TIA, Mike


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

I can't answer that, but having used both the ps-8 and helix, the helix gets my vote for the simple fact that everything is on a one-screen gui. The ps-8 you have to keep switching through screens.


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## gu9cci (Mar 28, 2011)

I agree.Helix have the best gui because everything is in one screen.That is alone one future want me to go back to helix dsp especially the Pro.I have mosconi 6to8v8 with amas and absolutely love that think.Not single drop of signal thru Bluetooth but tuning is not all on one screen gui which is only downfall


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## Dewey (May 29, 2013)

glad to hear all the Mos 6/8

Just got one Friday.

Awesome construction- impressive


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## Highroller (Feb 27, 2015)

How would you guys compare helix dsp (normal) with minidsp's c-dsp? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## airdevin (Sep 20, 2014)

i vote for the helix C-DSP .
this is a very good product


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

I think if u have an experienced installer/tuner....you'll have much better reviews of these different products. My guy was trained on Audison products, so that's what he's comfortable/familiar with. 

I have the Bit Ten D, and he works pure magic with that thing. Maybe in the wrong hands it would sound like crap...but I am in awe of what that man has accomplished in my vehicle. 

Very well deserving of his Top 50 Retailers/Installers nod for 2016. 

I say that to say....get you someone who is trained with whatever DSP you have....let them tune it....and u probably will have better results than tuning urself. It may not be the product, it may be YOU lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

MrGreen83 said:


> I think if u have an experienced installer/tuner....you'll have much better reviews of these different products. My guy was trained on Audison products, so that's what he's comfortable/familiar with.
> 
> I have the Bit Ten D, and he works pure magic with that thing. Maybe in the wrong hands it would sound like crap...but I am in awe of what that man has accomplished in my vehicle.
> 
> ...


I work for a retailer that carries audison, helix, rockford, arc, and a couple other companies that have dsp's. We don't chose processors based on what has good tuning features. We chose based on what one will have the least probability of coming back for warranty work. As of late, that's been the helix. It just so happens to have a metric ass load more flexibility over the audisons which are buggy, noisy, and out dated on top of that. As far as an "experienced tuner", there's a few here than can chime in if my tuning is worth anything or not. Also, no one said you couldn't make a car sound good with any of the products on the list. I've tuned a few cars with the bit one that sounded great. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> I work for a retailer that carries audison, helix, rockford, arc, and a couple other companies that have dsp's. We don't chose processors based on what has good tuning features. We chose based on what one will have the least probability of coming back for warranty work. As of late, that's been the helix. It just so happens to have a metric ass load more flexibility over the audisons which are buggy, noisy, and out dated on top of that. As far as an "experienced tuner", there's a few here than can chime in if my tuning is worth anything or not. Also, no one said you couldn't make a car sound good with any of the products on the list. I've tuned a few cars with the bit one that sounded great.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk




??? My response was directed at the original post. Not sure how you felt it was towards you. I didn't even see any comment from you, didn't know you were here. I should've known better tho lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

MrGreen83 said:


> ??? My response was directed at the original post. Not sure how you felt it was towards you. I didn't even see any comment from you, didn't know you were here. I should've known better tho lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes I know that. I'm just letting you know why no one is chosing your favorite brand so you need to resort to implying they're not experienced

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

As I said before....WHATEVER brand you use......if ur going to someone who is well-trained with THAT PRODUCT.....you'll have better results. 

I didn't say buy "my brand" I don't have a brand sir. Calm down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrGreen83 (Jun 11, 2015)

I used my setup as an >>example<< of how people say "don't buy this, don't buy that" but how it's more about WHO is doing the tuning. 

I think u read it wrong. Or maybe u just wanted to have a reason to say something to me (as usual) lol. Carry on sir


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lord Raven (Dec 5, 2011)

JBL MS8 for over 5 years now  

I have a question that might help me change my current DSP, is there any audible difference between Helix DSP and DSP PRO?  Both look just the same to me..


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## Huckleberry Sound (Jan 17, 2009)

Lord Raven said:


> JBL MS8 for over 5 years now
> 
> I have a question that might help me change my current DSP, is there any audible difference between Helix DSP and DSP PRO?  Both look just the same to me..


Go to Post #5

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ussion/279442-helix-dsp-pro-vs-helix-dsp.html


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## Lord Raven (Dec 5, 2011)

Huckleberry Sound said:


> Go to Post #5
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ussion/279442-helix-dsp-pro-vs-helix-dsp.html


Thanks, but, I have read the specs a hundred times. My question is, let's put it this way, can Helix DSP compete with DSP PRO in a competition? 

I have seen things too pretty on the paper, don't really perform in real. I was just curious if someone did a comparison.

Someone told me once, if you need a lot of processing, there is something wrong with the install. All these DSPs can only help you to a certain extent, they cannot fix the install issues.


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## snaimpally (Mar 5, 2008)

Helix for me but I haven't tried the Arc Audio processor.


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## car_audio_fanatic (Nov 22, 2013)

I have only used the H701 and H800


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

Fosgate Gavotte, I know im showing my age, wasnt in my car either, Al Wenzel's Blue Thunderbird.


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## Donanon (Sep 13, 2013)

The best DSP I have ever used is the MiniDSP 2X8. It is also the only dedicated DSP I have ever used and compared to the AutoTune I've tried on the three HU's I've owned the 2X8 is leaps and bounds better IMO.

D.


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