# New headunit for SQ?



## smithee419 (Aug 27, 2008)

I'm thinking of getting rid my pioneer f90bt and putting that into my wifes Mercedes. I want a headunit good for SQ for my next install. I would love some opinions on what headunits should I be looking at for SQ. I'm looking at the p9 combo, what other units should I look at? I want something that has a built in 3-way front crossover tweeter/midrange/midbass/+sub, along with eq. 
Or should I keep f90bt and add a crossover and EQ? I was looking at the Audiocontrol DQXS when I was thinking of using the f90bt, but now I don't know if I should go that route?
This will be going into a E46 BMW M3, I picked up some Zapco Studio Series amps (2-500's, 204, 300x, 100). 2 10" IDmaxd2's running off 1 Zapco Studio 500 per sub. ID minihorns running off the 100. A pair of 8" midbass's in the doors running off the 204. A pair of 6" mids in kicks running off the 300x.
So, what do you think?


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## smithee419 (Aug 27, 2008)

Nobody?


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## gharu (Sep 9, 2008)

DEH-P01 (DEX-P99RS)


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## bafukie (Nov 23, 2007)

clarion drz9255


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## pionkej (Feb 29, 2008)

I think most people would suggest you search or just not respond at all (which it looks like they are doing).

A quick look tells you that the P9 combo, DRZ9255, Pioneer P01/P99, Sony C90/XDP-4000x, H701 (and C701 or compatible Alpine HU), Alpine F#1 can all do 4-way with the HU or HU/Processor. 

You can also get the bitone and get pretty much any HU. Or you can get a Zapco DC amp for one "way" and use a 3-way capable HU for the rest. Or get all Zapco DC amps (which I assume you wouldn't want to do). Or you can wait till the JBL MS-8 comes out. Or you can wait until the Zapco DSP-8 comes out.

Hope this helps you in your search.


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## khanhfat (Feb 4, 2008)

Pioneer RS-D7XII with processor .. many competitors in Thailand use this combo and DLS amp/speaker.


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## k-ink (Dec 20, 2009)

I'm also researching this... I fancy the Clarion HX-D2 or Pioneer P99... read the reviews around the net. Both seem very impressive!


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

This will do a two way with sub. Get the processor and you can do pretty much whatever you want. Eclipse Sound Monitor DTA-500X and ICD-500X very Rare - eBay (item 180446691302 end time Dec-22-09 17:16:45 PST)

Just depends on how much $$ you want to spend and how exotic you want.

Kirk


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

my alpine f1 unit in the classifieds


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## khanhfat (Feb 4, 2008)

AcuraTLSQ said:


> This will do a two way with sub. Get the processor and you can do pretty much whatever you want. Eclipse Sound Monitor DTA-500X and ICD-500X very Rare - eBay (item 180446691302 end time Dec-22-09 17:16:45 PST)
> 
> Just depends on how much $$ you want to spend and how exotic you want.
> 
> Kirk


Amazing find. I might save moar money for it instead


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

smithee419 said:


> I'm thinking of getting rid my pioneer f90bt and putting that into my wifes Mercedes. I want a headunit good for SQ for my next install. I would love some opinions on what headunits should I be looking at for SQ. I'm looking at the p9 combo, what other units should I look at? I want something that has a built in 3-way front crossover tweeter/midrange/midbass/+sub, along with eq. Or should I keep f90bt and add a crossover and EQ? I was looking at the Audiocontrol DQXS when I was thinking of using the f90bt, but now I don't know if I should go that route?
> This will be going into a E46 BMW M3, I picked up some Zapco Studio Series amps (2-500's, 204, 300x, 100). 2 10" IDmaxd2's running off 1 Zapco Studio 500 per sub. ID minihorns running off the 100. A pair of 8" midbass's in the doors running off the 204. A pair of 6" mids in kicks running off the 300x.
> So, what do you think?


I think it is great that you can name drop "Mercedes" "BMW" "ZAPCO" but the fact that you are planning to run horns in a 4-way system and are looking for recommendations for a 'SQ" head unit tells me that maybe you after another big ticket item in hopes of performance or "SQ"? I am sorry but I think too many here lately are throwing around the terms SOUND QUALITY or "SQ" and think that throwing money at the issue will get them there. 

It sounds like you have some nice equipment there but that is a complex system design that you have planned. A good and thoughtful install with tuning tools like: a flexible EQ, 4-way crossover, and maybe time alignment etc will be needed. Yes only the more expensive decks have 4-way crossovers however no one here can say what would be "BEST" for SQ for YOU. Your existing deck and an outboard DSP would work but it all comes down to tuning. Which one can YOU tune the best and which suites YOUR needs.

I guess what I am saying is.... we can give BIG Dollar recommendations for a nice deck DSP setup but do you think you can install this 4-way w/horn install and tune it to sound "BIG" dollar?

I am sorry and this is not just a general attach but it seems there are more and more members on here that seem to be looking for these BIG ticket items but you get a scenes that they have not done their research. There is a TON of info on this forum alone.... and many equipment questions have been discussed several times. However, it seems many want to still talk about equipment and not good system design, setup, and tuning?

Again I don't mean to come off the wrong way and good for you that you can afford some of the finer things but any of the expensive decks mentioned here like the F#1 Status and Pioneer RS-D7XII would work for you. However, you could very well run your current deck with a DSP like the Audison BitONE. But given the rise in used P9 combos for sale that is a nice option as well. But if you want modern features like built in iPod function, maybe the new Pioneer P01/P99 at $1200 would work for you? Have you thought about haveing a shop do the work and help with tuning? 12V Electronics in Chicago has done some nice work on BMW's:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...bo-bmw-e46-m3-gets-hybrid-audio-makeover.html
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/51708-500-hp-bmw-m3-goes-hybrid-audio.html

Also these guys in OH: http://web.me.com/krazy11011/autosoundohio/Welcome.html


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## smithee419 (Aug 27, 2008)

In reference to what you are saying (WLDOCK)- I'm not looking for another high $ product thinking I'm gonna get the magic cure! I was simply asking a question about headunits and if I should change from what I have now (f90bt). I wanted to know if it was worth it to just add a crossover/eq-audiocontrol dqxs, audison bit1 to my (f90bt). Or should I change to a better headunit with everything built in? 
I have been planning my system for some time now this is why I asking questions, I'm not trying to go and spend $ if I don't have to. I want to have everything ready to go so when I do install it all this winter I don't have to worry about-well maybe I should have bought this instead of that!
As far as high $ items- I don't think what I have I so high $-horns,zapco studios there is deffinately alot more expensive equiptment out there! If I can get away with just adding a processor then that's cool with me. But I don't want to spend $ on something if I don't have to. 
As far as taking my car to a shop-I'm not some amateur, I was the lead installer/garage manager at my old job for 5-6 years before I got better paying job. I know I'm gonna have alot of tuning to do, that's always the hard part in every install.


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## ghettocowboy (May 31, 2008)

If you can find a good shape Nakamichi CD700 then nothing can touch you. It is affordable comparing to all the Z1/F1. It is the most well balanced (high/mid/low) head unit I have ever heard for car. F1 status and Denon Z1 have good high but the mid and low are not even near the Nakamichi. The DAC built in the Nak CD700 is not as good as the F1 status but if you can find old Nak 1000MB cd changer or 100CDi cd changer hooked up to the CD700 with or without external DAC, then you can forget the rest.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

smithee419, See you are throwing me again. I would have never guessed by your questions that you were a pro installer. Sorry man!

But I am sure you know that you are going to need some tools to tame a 4-way with horn install. Your deck has modern features but a P9 combo would be better to tame that system. Like I said....maybe that new Pioneer import might be the best of both worlds? No one knows if there will be a US version until after CES. 

As far as what is better? Only you can figure that one out. The Pioneer stuff is nice as well as the Audison BitOne and the Zapco DSP unit so there are some options out there in both form factors. Some think that this new 4-way Pioneer deck with built in DSP is a step backwards even before hearing it vs. the P9 combo with an outboard DSP? I understand the argument but I can't say what is what without hearing the new unit in a system.

ghettocowboy - We can talk decks and transports all day but in the end with a 4-way w/horn install he is going to need some serious DSP.


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## smithee419 (Aug 27, 2008)

Sorry WLDOCK I didn't mean to snap back at ya! I have been out of the game for some years now as far as what's good and not! I kinda keep up with it, just not like I used to when it was a passion for me. I'm from the 90's oldschool era. I have done a couple of installs here and there around town since I left my job as an installer, but nothing major! When I bought my car a few years ago, I knew I wanted to put something in it, I wanted all the toys the factory radio had-nav, cd changer, and so on... I purchased that pioneer f90bt. I was just gonna do a normal install, but now I changed my mind and bought those zapco amps, I'm gonna go 3-way front, I changed my subs. I might just give that Audison a try and see how it goes, plus it seems if I don't like it there sure are people on this forum that would buy it. Once again I'm sorry I snaped at ya!


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## freemind (Sep 11, 2008)

smithee419 said:


> I'm thinking of getting rid my pioneer f90bt and putting that into my wifes Mercedes. I want a headunit good for SQ for my next install. I would love some opinions on what headunits should I be looking at for SQ. I'm looking at the p9 combo, what other units should I look at? I want something that has a built in 3-way front crossover tweeter/midrange/midbass/+sub, along with eq.
> Or should I keep f90bt and add a crossover and EQ? I was looking at the Audiocontrol DQXS when I was thinking of using the f90bt, but now I don't know if I should go that route?
> This will be going into a E46 BMW M3, I picked up some Zapco Studio Series amps (2-500's, 204, 300x, 100). 2 10" IDmaxd2's running off 1 Zapco Studio 500 per sub. ID minihorns running off the 100. A pair of 8" midbass's in the doors running off the 204. A pair of 6" mids in kicks running off the 300x.
> So, what do you think?



If your wife doesn't want that crappy old f90b, please feel free to send it to me


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## Intel_One_USMC (Feb 3, 2009)

Here's my e46 M3 build. I don't have the skills to hack the doors, but managed to fit a set of focals K2ps in there. Crammed the rest of the gear out of sight in the trunk. The Pioneer's P01/P99 does catch my eye.


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## smithee419 (Aug 27, 2008)

^^^Nice equiptment bro, I had something similar 1 year ago as far as sub and amp combo. I always liked JL equiptment. I remember when they first hit the scene, I did a budget install for my brother with 2 10" JLw1's on a 150w per ch LA Sound Hermosa. Installed it in a Dodge Daytona and it took 1st place at 143.9db in local competition, this is when car audio started to really take off (early 90's)! 
Do you belong to M3forums? Alot of good info there about our cars. I don't get to much of a chance to get on there anymore, too much work.
I know what you are talking about with the doors, they didn't leave us too much room for speaker replacement. I didn't want to hack my doors up either, but they I just went for it. My midbass's were just to deep to mount to factory location. I cut up to door and made fuberglass enclosures and mounted them to the door. What a difference on sound, I have so much more midbass. Now I'm gonna put a pair of 8" midbass in the doors, gonna have togo back to work on my doors!!! 
You got any pics of the trunk? If so, I would like to see what you came up with.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

smithee419 said:


> This will be going into a E46 BMW M3, I picked up some Zapco Studio Series amps (2-500's, 204, 300x, 100). 2 10" IDmaxd2's running off 1 Zapco Studio 500 per sub. ID minihorns running off the 100. A pair of 8" midbass's in the doors running off the 204. A pair of 6" mids in kicks running off the 300x. So, what do you think?


why 8s and 6s? you won't really need both of them.


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## smithee419 (Aug 27, 2008)

I still don't know what to do for my front stage. I'm either gonna do a 2-way with 2 6" mids/midbass's in each door and the Hlcd's, or go the route of a 3-way with a 8" midbass in the door and a 6" or 5" in the kicks and the Hlcds. I'm still tossing around both ideas. I have a pair of ID cxs64's in my doors now-good midbass, just feel I am gonna need more when I get to tuning. I like good SQ, but then I like to crank it out sometimes. I guess only time will tell which rout I'm gonna take.


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## Horsemanwill (Jun 1, 2008)

if your gonna run the horns i don't recommend runnin both the 8 and a smaller midbass there's no need for it. the horns and a good set of midbass is all you need for the front stage and if you really wanted it a real super tweet for the very top end. i run ultras horns and dual 6.5s in each door and i love it.


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## 03blueSI (Feb 5, 2006)

You could always go with a DVA-9860, DVA-9861, or DVA-9965 and a bit one.  Optical to the bit one and audio bliss from there.

The 9965 has the advantage of sending out radio over optical as well and I believe also the iPod so you can use the DRC for volume control instead of having to switch back and forth.


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## k-ink (Dec 20, 2009)

I also like to get some bargains, but when it comes to HU's I think it can be a false economy sometimes. The latest units have all the processing built in. Which means no need for extra trunk mounted boxes. Also there seems to be a lot of people having real noise issues with Bitone add on processors. Plus to recommend Nakamichi without mentioning their less than ideal reliability isn't the kindest thing. Yes, you can assemble a cheap front end, but be prepared to have a lot of potential hassles with it too. IMHO of course.

That doesn't mean I am saying go and waste a ton of cash on an f1. Just maybe look at some half way options. Maybe try and get a good deal (new or mint used) or a new generation HX-D2 or Pioneer maybe.


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## smithee419 (Aug 27, 2008)

Ok Horsemanwill, I think I gonna go with the 2 6" in each door. You suggested that to me before on a different thread I started. It's cheaper for me to go this route, and less work.


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## WLDock (Sep 27, 2005)

smithee419 said:


> Sorry WLDOCK I didn't mean to snap back at ya!


Aw no worries man...just trying to get a feel.... Hey man you are right down the road. I just recently had an engine dropped by a guy in Toledo. You never know... would like to hear it one day when you get it all together.

I agree with others....not sure what the thinking is in trying to run a bunch of drivers? What about the horns with a nice efficient 8" like the B&C 8NDL51? Would be nice running off that Studio 204 bridged.
B&C 8NDL51 is a lightweight 8" woofer that woofer - B&C Speakers - B&C 8NDL51 neodymium 8" mid-bass speaker for 2 or 3-way systems. B&C 8NDL51 neodymium bass speakers available now.
I thought that was the beauty of the horn...wide range, less drivers, great directivity, and dynamics. Hell, with that B&C driver, I could see running a large home audio tweeter maybe from Scan-Speak in a 2-way. But two 6.5's in the door can get it done as well.


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## smithee419 (Aug 27, 2008)

Where at in Michigan ya from? Don't worry I live in Toledo now, but I grew up in Temperance Michigan, so I'm not one of those crazy Buckeye fans! Been a Wolverine fan my whole life and won't ever change. I used to be in Wayne, Plymouth, Livernois, and Dearborn alot for work, but now I don't make it up there very often. I'm an engineer for CSX Railroad now, I try to work close to home.
I looked at those B&C 8" as a posibility for the doors as well as the jbl 2118h also. The B&C's are alot easier to get ahold of, plus I can get them brand new, where as the JBL's I've only seen a couple for sale. I was also looking into the B&C compression drivers as well.
When I get her started I let ya know, I only live 20 minutes from border if coming down I75 or 10 minutes from border going down I23.


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## Intel_One_USMC (Feb 3, 2009)

Just got back from holiday break. Here's some pic of the trunk of the M3. Just a single 10w6v2 in JL's sealed box. The S624 changer sits on top of the battery secured using velcro. PDX5 sits where the OEM amps use to be. Had to cut the OEM bracket to make the pdx fit. JL 300/2 powers the front mids and the PDX5 powers everything else [tweets, rears, sub]. Two optical toslink source from the head unit and changer goes to the H701. But radio and ipod goes through the ai-net. Which I don't like. 

On long trips, I'll hook my mac book pro to the H701 using toslink where the changer would go, and use my iphone to control the lossless playback. 

I'm so envious of the new pioneer deck. After CES, we'll know what alpine has to offer.


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## 03blueSI (Feb 5, 2006)

03blueSI said:


> You could always go with a DVA-9860, DVA-9861, or DVA-9965 and a bit one. Optical to the bit one and audio bliss from there.
> 
> The 9965 has the advantage of sending out radio over optical as well and I believe also the iPod so you can use the DRC for volume control instead of having to switch back and forth.


Well, my memory was off. I just got the iPod adapter and the iPod on the 9965 is analog only. I am guessing all of the built in sound goes through the optical (the CD/DVD and radio) and any add on device is analog only. Still, it isn't a huge deal.


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## Intel_One_USMC (Feb 3, 2009)

03blueSI said:


> Well, my memory was off. I just got the iPod adapter and the iPod on the 9965 is analog only. I am guessing all of the built in sound goes through the optical (the CD/DVD and radio) and any add on device is analog only. Still, it isn't a huge deal.


The 9861's ipod is analog also.  Even the DVD-audio gets downmixed to 2 channel and sent in analog form.


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## 03blueSI (Feb 5, 2006)

Well, DVD-Audio is not allowed under the spec to send anything more than 16/48 out over optical. The only unit on the market that will send the full resolution digitally, as far as I know, is the DVI-9990 using the Ion Bus, which is basically a modified version of firewire.

If I could afford this and 2 PXI-H990 processors i would go a full surround DVD-A setup.


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