# Review: Audible Physics XR3M Wideband Drivers



## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Disclaimers:

1). I have looked on this forum and have not found a review other than Kevin's (Finebar4 - Look Ma, No Tweeters) - I don't want to step on his review because these are a little bit different then the protos that he has. 

2). These drivers are not installed in my car yet - will be in a couple months - just want to give some preliminary impressions. 

3) I'm not an expert reviewer - don't have all of the cool vocab to explain what I hear.

Review:

I purchased these drivers without seeing them and without hearing them. I was prepared to purchase a couple other brands of drivers, spoke to a close friend who suggested that I call Mark Brooks before purchasing. Mark has heard my car, knows the other equipment I have installed, and has a sense of my goals for the overall sound. After a conversation with Mark, I made the decision to purchase (he sent me pictures of the drivers later that night). 

I received the drivers while visiting my In-laws for the Christmas Holiday. I took these crappy pictures with my phone.





































As Kevin stated - the build quality is phenomonal. They are heavy - with a substantial magnet / motor structure. This may deter some due to more difficulty with installation. The Rosewood Phase Plug aesthetics really is something that I appreciate - may not be for everyone, but I think it is pretty cool.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I borrowed an integrated amp that I had sold my Dad a few years ago - that I had bought back in High School to 'test' the drivers. Well, of course the amp is on it's last legs - not sure what the problem is. The sound from the drivers was very good during the few minutes the amp supplied sound.

My Father-in-law and I crafted up some small enclosures to mount the drivers. We had limited tools for the job, and it was extremely cold working outside on Christmas Eve. We used some 3/4" white pine he had laying around, not the ideal for speaker boxes, but it worked fine. The enclosures are approximately 2 L's internal space, and a moderate amount of poly fill was added to each box. 




























I am extremely impressed with the sound from these drivers. As expected, they have a very wide frequency range - good bass sound for such small drivers, and wonderful highs - good cymbals, harp, flute, piano, etc. My favorite quality of course is the purity of the vocal reproduction. A couple nights ago was my first chance to listen to them, and I played a new album that I received for Christmas, Zac Brown Band, You Get What You Give, and the drivers reproduced his voice extremely well. They were fantastic with the acoustic guitar as well. This album was played with the drivers in a near-field position - on the small tables with me on the floor.










The other morning's listening was with the album 'Winter Solstice II' by Windham Hill. I placed the drivers on top of the B&W's. These little drivers filled the room, and the clarity of various instruments was exceptional. 










Last night, I listened for about an hour with the drivers connected to the 'B' section of the Sony ES2 Receiver with moderate volume still placed above the B&W's. I listened to a couple SQ mix cd's that I am familiar with, and a Dispatch album that I am very familiar with. 

Here are a few impressions that I had:

1) The drivers reproduce the vocals very well (duh!). Two artists in particular - Diana Krall (The Look of Love), and Cassandra Wilson (Come Into My Kitchen) - perfect reproduction of the nuances of their voices. I also listened to a few very good acapella tracks (Boys II Men - Yesterday), Straight No Chaser - Rehab). Very good clarity - no edgyness / grainyness - smooth, with detail. 

2) The drivers have a wide range up top - I think most will never miss their tweeters depending on installation and musical preference. Great electric / accoustic guitar sound, cymbals, violin, etc. - without any harshness / fatigue. Of course, these are being played in a very large room, not in a small 3-Series BMW that they will eventually be played in. 

3) They have a nice bottom end as well - played some L'orchestra de Contrebasses - got some of the stand up bass lower tones - did very well on the low vocals from Boys II Men, even did admirably on The Fairfield Four, These Bones.

4) My favorite set of tracks that I auditioned was from Dispatch, Silent Steeples. There is a lot of accoustic guitar, percussion (mostly hand drums, bongos, etc.), and three singers with very clear voices. It is a re-mastered disc that is very well recorded. This is probably going to be the first disc that I will listen to once I get the drivers installed and the first one I will play when I get the 'final' tune done. 

Summary (so far) - Great purchasing experience (speaking to the owner of the company who knows my vehicle and discussing the potential benefits). Aesthetically, even better than expected and build quality that to me, is fantastic. The drivers have an extremely pleasing sound to me - smooth and detailed (this has been remarked to me a couple times with my current set up in my car, so theoretically, these drivers should be a good addition - barring anything strange with the installation / amplifier). 

I am very much looking forward to hearing these drivers on the Class A bias front stage of the Audison LRx 5.1k - should be a very good match. I am planning on installing them at the base of the A pillars of my 2002 BMW 325i.


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## NSTar (Feb 24, 2010)

Did you EQ at all? I couldn't find the SPL vs Freq on these. Thanks for the review.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

NSTar said:


> Did you EQ at all? I couldn't find the SPL vs Freq on these. Thanks for the review.


No EQ - on the Sony amp, ran them 'Analog Direct'. 

Here are some graphs that I received from Mark.










500 Hz and up amplified





















* Loudspeaker Measurement System
* LMS(TM) 4.5.0.331 二月-12-2003
* (C)opyright 1993-2000 by LinearX Systems Inc
* Electro Mechanical Parameters
* Reference Curve=Sweep
* Delta M/C Curve=Sweep
Domain= FreeAir
Model= TSL
Revc= 3.400 Ohm
Fo= 164.684 Hz (True 3 db down)
Sd= 3.421m M?
Krm= 62.171m Ohm
Erm= 0.345
Kxm= 219.378m H
Exm= 0.140
Vas= 615.167m Ltr
Cms= 370.168u M/N
Mmd= 2.408m Kg
Mms= 2.523g
BL= 2.6 T
Xmax= 5mm one-way
Qms= 6.94
Qes= 1.35
Qts= 1.127
No= 0.197 %
SPLo= 85.773 dB 1w/1m


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## The A Train (Jun 26, 2007)

wow i doubt youll ever hit Xmax!


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Have you heard them off axis yet Jason? My A4 has the B&O system with the mids and center channel all firing up at the windshield. Not really looking to make pods or anything so I'm thinking direct fit drivers facing up as well.

Thanks!
Paul


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> Have you heard them off axis yet Jason? My A4 has the B&O system with the mids and center channel all firing up at the windshield. Not really looking to make pods or anything so I'm thinking direct fit drivers facing up as well.
> 
> Thanks!
> Paul


First great pre-review Jason. 

And Paul you would be fine with them firing in to the Windshield. The reflection off the windshield would help, Chefhow (Howard) used the Trinity all year in his C70 the same way in stock dash location. The the XR3M far exceeds the Trinity up top.


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## finebar4 (Aug 26, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> Have you heard them off axis yet Jason? My A4 has the B&O system with the mids and center channel all firing up at the windshield. Not really looking to make pods or anything so I'm thinking direct fit drivers facing up as well.
> 
> Thanks!
> Paul


Hey Paul,
Check out my review as you can't get anymore off axis than where I put them in my truck. They are great off-axis in my application, however haven't tried reflecting them off the windshield yet.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Thanks for the info guys. I'm hoping Audi left some extra room in there since the center is only spec'd as a 70mm driver. :worried: I guess if worse comes to worst I can just do a 2-way in the doors. Not sure how I'd do the center though. 

I should stop rambling before I get too off-topic. 

Thanks again!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

This afternoon I was able to take the little (actually not so little) boxes out to the car. I hooked up the speakers to the barrier strips that were connected to the tweeters. It became immediately evident that they were not going to sit on the dash (the inside of this car is always bigger in my mind than it is in reality).

So, my wife and I were going to hold the speakers in place – that lasted about 2 minutes, when my wife started suggesting other alternative plans. I tried taping the box up there – no so good – then she found the box in the picture and it worked perfectly. 

The next ‘disappointment’ was in the head unit. When I first installed the Pioneer, I discovered that the midrange output had to be used (just the way they have the thing configured). I connected the midrange rcas to the portion of the amp driving the mid bass drivers, and the high outputs to the tweeters. When I connected the XR3M’s to the tweeter speaker wires, I could only go down to 800 hz for a high pass. So, I low passed the mid bass at 250 hz and high passed the midranges at 800hz with a 6 db slope. I could probably reconfigure a little bit temporarily to have the sub outs to the midbass drivers, and the midrange to the midrange – and not run the sub (I mostly had the sub muted today anyway).

Tried to tape in place - No Go.









Jenky - but worked


















Off-axis









Crossovers - Mid bass Low Pass 250 Hz @ 24 db, Mid range High Pass 800 Hz @ 6 db









Shot of one of the tracks played









I can totally see now with the drivers in a small confined space where tweeters may certainly not be needed. There is an extreme top end that I haven’t heard on other widebanders that I have listened to. It was a bit variable due to the source – some tracks were a bit ‘hot’ – could be dialed down a bit on the top end. Most of the tracks that I played had the perfect amount of top end (for me). Most of the listening was with the drivers pretty much aimed at the dome light (sort of), and some listening off axis. I listened to them with the EQ at the setting from my last tune (voice was nicely centered), and with the EQ flat. 

Overall impression – I am extremely pleased with the sound! The midrange sound is amazing – very lifelike – pleasing – smooth and detailed. I listened to several jazz tracks from ‘A 20 Bit Taste of DMP’, and female vocalists were perfect. A lot of good sax sounds and percussion. I played a few tracks from Adam’s mix disc – the snare snaps on Crash Test Dummies, ‘How Does A Duck Know’ was razor sharp. Natalie Merchant’s ‘San Andreas Fault’ was very intimate, full rich voice. ‘Somewhere, Somebody’ from Jennifer Warnes was excellent – the timbre of the three voices were spot on, and nice detail with the triangle. I then checked another female vocalist, Brooke Fraser’s live, ‘The Sound of Silence’ – excellent fullness of her voice with an extended breathiness of the top notes, and detailed strings. I ended with a couple tracks from the Zac Brown Band – specifically ‘Martin’ from You Get What You Give. Excellent strings, but the drivers did a fantastic job with Zac’s vocals

Today’s listening session demonstrated a few things:
1)	I need to get the correct crossover points to really test the drivers.
2)	It would be much better to have smaller enclosures (like the pvc elbows that Steve used when he tested several widebanders) so that I can stick them in the corner of the dash.
3)	These drivers are true widebanders – very extended top end.
4)	50 watts are plenty in my small car to get good dynamics with these drivers
5)	I’m really going to like these drivers in my set up – I can’t wait to get them permanently installed.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

bertholomey said:


> So, my wife and I were going to hold the speakers in place –
> 
> Tried to tape in place - No Go.


Is that her in the side mirror looking ashamed of the install?? :laugh:

Ok, sorry about that, I was just going for an easy joke.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

That is her saying, "Will this obsession ever end?!" She was a bit dismayed with ghetto fabulous install.

At the end of my listening yesterday, I called her (I didn't want to have to put the driver's side speaker in the floor) and invited her to listen to a couple tracks. She came out with a sour look and a big bag of Chex Mix. She did really like the sound though - she was very impressed with the way the speakers rendered Zac Brown's voice.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Hmmm, what was that J? No tweets needed?  Glad you got a chance to check them out in the car though. I know they're incredibly impressive drivers. And I'm really glad that you gave H-Audio a shot brother.


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## chevbowtie22 (Nov 23, 2008)

Hmm. I'm starting to gather what I need to do the install in my C5 Corvette and these might be what I'm looking for. I need a pair of 3" or 4" speakers off axis in the car and I'm really trying to avoid tweeters. Now where would one find these little gems?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

chevbowtie22 said:


> Hmm. I'm starting to gather what I need to do the install in my C5 Corvette and these might be what I'm looking for. I need a pair of 3" or 4" speakers off axis in the car and I'm really trying to avoid tweeters. Now where would one find these little gems?


These drivers might fill the bill for what you are after. You can start by looking through the following thread H-Audio / Audible Physics Black Friday/Christmas Pre-Release/Arrival Sale

You can contact Mark Brooks by pm on this forum (H-Audio Inc.) to bounce some ideas off of him.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Hooked up the new Fugly PVC 'Enclosures'. They fit on the dash, I can aim them a bit better, and I can find them in the dark because of the Duck Tape.....

I listened for a bit - I'll do a little more listening tomorrow am and post some comments. I did move the rcas so I was able to bandpass the mid bass drivers 40 - 250 Hz and the mid range 200 - 20 kHz. Much better!


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

bertholomey said:


> Hooked up the new Fugly PVC 'Enclosures'. They fit on the dash, I can aim them a bit better, and I can find them in the dark because of the Duck Tape.....
> 
> I listened for a bit - I'll do a little more listening tomorrow am and post some comments. I did move the rcas so I was able to bandpass the mid bass drivers 40 - 250 Hz and the mid range 200 - 20 kHz. Much better!


Will these be hooked up so 'the rest of us' can hear them at the meet?

Looking forward to it.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Yes

I'll show up with my normal rig in case anyone want's to hear it, then I will change some things around and go from 2 way to 2 way (minus the sub because I will be hijacking it's rca's). I would like to get some feedback on how the sound (not on how bad the enclosures look ).


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## mSaLL150 (Aug 14, 2008)

Interesting test tactics J. Do you plan to permanently install them on the dash at some point? Hopefully you will be able to recess the speaker back into the pillar a bit more to help the stage width. I'm anxiously awaiting your impression on these speakers!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

mSaLL150 said:


> Interesting test tactics J. Do you plan to permanently install them on the dash at some point? Hopefully you will be able to recess the speaker back into the pillar a bit more to help the stage width. I'm anxiously awaiting your impression on these speakers!


Oh absolutely!!! These are just my fiddling around because I have no patience. As I was making these little temporary 'enclosures', I had the thought that I wish I had just kept them in the original shipping box. The more I futz with them, the more there is a chance of a huge 'Doh!' moment. 

I'm just getting some overall impressions of their capabilities before permanently mounting and before tuning. I have been listening to them in a 2 litre box - full range with a portable boom box. I have been very impressed with their sound. Tonight was the first time I had them crossed at an appropriate bandpass - playing off of the front stage of the Audison amp - very nice!


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## aeon (Oct 11, 2007)

Would be nice to hear everyone else's thoughts once they get to listen to them.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

great testing, J. Do me a fav and raise the high-pass crossover point to about 250-300hz and see if the midrange and top gets even sweeter. I say this only because it has been my experience with all small wide-band drivers, remove some of that lower end info and the top-end and mid-range becomes even sweeter. Physics, you just can't beat them even with Audible Physics drivers . The XR3M is a little beast, but still a 3", but with a motor to can power a 6.5" with little effort. 

Also don't be afraid to underlap you crossover points (leaving a gap) it can be felled in with the slopes.


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## NSTar (Feb 24, 2010)

omg... I'm gonna have to leave this one free-air no box or tube.

Maybe you can try a U joint? bury the joint into the dash (basically hide it) to get the volume you need.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

NSTar said:


> omg... I'm gonna have to leave this one free-air no box or tube.
> 
> Maybe you can try a U joint? bury the joint into the dash (basically hide it) to get the volume you need.



IIRC Mark said they work best in sealed enclosures of about 1L, helps tighten up the button end and smooth out the top.


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## WOOFERNTWEETER (Aug 16, 2010)

bertholomey said:


> Hooked up the new Fugly PVC 'Enclosures'. They fit on the dash, I can aim them a bit better, and I can find them in the dark because of the Duck Tape.....
> 
> I listened for a bit - I'll do a little more listening tomorrow am and post some comments. I did move the rcas so I was able to bandpass the mid bass drivers 40 - 250 Hz and the mid range 200 - 20 kHz. Much better!


WOW!!!!!! REALLY!!!!! i did this back in the 90's figuring out placement before i went to an IASCA show


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

H-Audio Inc. said:


> great testing, J. Do me a fav and raise the high-pass crossover point to about 250-300hz and see if the midrange and top gets even sweeter. I say this only because it has been my experience with all small wide-band drivers, remove some of that lower end info and the top-end and mid-range becomes even sweeter. Physics, you just can't beat them even with Audible Physics drivers . The XR3M is a little beast, but still a 3", but with a motor to can power a 6.5" with little effort.
> 
> Also don't be afraid to underlap you crossover points (leaving a gap) it can be felled in with the slopes.


Great tips Mark - I will certainly do that. I'm hoping to get a little more seat time today. If I can't fly to San Fran tomorrow, I'll have even more time 



chefhow said:


> IIRC Mark said they work best in sealed enclosures of about 1L, helps tighten up the button end and smooth out the top.


Good bit of info - certainly does influence my install plans.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

San Fran???? How long are you going to be out this way bro? Any chance to get together while you're out?


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

bertholomey said:


> Yes
> 
> I'll show up with my normal rig in case anyone want's to hear it, then I will change some things around and go from 2 way to 2 way (minus the sub because I will be hijacking *it's* rca's). I would like to get some feedback on how the sound (not on how bad the enclosures look ).


Boo-ya!

Not often the grammar police can ding ol' Jason.

Good work on the test enclosures to better fit the car! Ugly works; but I would have used blue painters tape- that has been a proven combination with H-Audio stuff in the California competition circuit! LOL poke: Zach)


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

LOL @ Ryan. Well played sir!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

slade1274 said:


> Boo-ya!
> 
> Not often the grammar police can ding ol' Jason.
> 
> Good work on the test enclosures to better fit the car! Ugly works; but I would have used blue painters tape- that has been a proven combination with H-Audio stuff in the California competition circuit! LOL poke: Zach)


I probably got tired of hitting the sym / up arrow on the droid and let it go 

I would have used the blue painters tape if I were going to compete in IASCA where I would be judged on SQ and Install  

You know......I wonder if the blue tape would make them sound better......maybe that is one of Zach's secrets.......I need to make an order.......


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## bikerider (Dec 28, 2008)

bertholomey said:


> I probably got tired of hitting the sym / up arrow on the droid and let it go
> 
> I would have used the blue painters tape if I were going to compete in IASCA where I would be judged on SQ and Install
> 
> You know......I wonder if the blue tape would make them sound better......maybe that is one of Zach's secrets.......I need to make an order.......


I think I have a spare roll laying around, I'll throw it in the car for the 22nd...


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

So mine should be sounding GREAT!


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> I probably got tired of hitting the sym / up arrow on the droid and let it go
> 
> I would have used the blue painters tape if I were going to compete in IASCA where I would be judged on SQ and Install
> 
> You know......I wonder if the blue tape would make them sound better......maybe that is one of Zach's secrets.......I need to make an order.......


HEY!! Don't go giving away all my Essque secrets J! LOL!!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Boostedrex said:


> San Fran???? How long are you going to be out this way bro? Any chance to get together while you're out?


Well....as it stands right now - all flights are canceled today, but have not been canceled yet for tomorrow. I have to wait until it is officially canceled before I can do any kind of work around. Unfortunately, if I do get there, it is an investigator meeting, so we will be tied up through Saturday. As it stands now, I doubt if I'll even be able to fly out......


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Ok, just let me know either way. The spare room is always open brother.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

does anyone know the absorption coefficient of duct tape? I'd worry that the top end isn't as airy as it could be due to 10-20khz getting absorbed by all that silver.


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## bikerider (Dec 28, 2008)

I've got some aluminum flashing tape if you want to add "bling" :lol:


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I can foresee many accidents as I'm cruising down the rode and the sun hits them just right....


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## stereo_luver (Oct 30, 2007)

H-Audio Inc. said:


> First great pre-review Jason.
> 
> And Paul you would be fine with them firing in to the Windshield. The reflection off the windshield would help, Chefhow (Howard) used the Trinity all year in his C70 the same way in stock dash location. The the XR3M far exceeds the Trinity up top.


I have my Trinities firing up in the stock locations in the dash of my Dodge Truck and the sound is unreal. I had a guy at a local shop at home laugh when he heard the Trinities. I asked why he laughed? "Because the hair on the back of my neck is standing on end" And they compete at CES every year and place well. If not first in the build off they finish a VERY close second.

I can't wait to get my XR's installed and go back.


Chuck


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I spent about an hour in the car tonight and a few more impressions. I futzed with the high pass crossover on the XR's, and I really liked the 250 Hz @ 24 db slope - better then some of the higher points and shallower slopes. We'll see if others fell the same way. I just feel there was a bit more body to the sound, but of course that was with the mid bass drivers muted, so I might listen again with the points changed and the mid bass playing. 

For the majority of the listening, I had the following parameters set:
1) No tweets
2) No sub
3) Mid range from 250 to 20k @ 24 db
4) Mid bass from 40 to 250 @ 24 db
5) XR's in the corners as much as possible - pointing between the rear view mirror and dome light
6) Gains on the XR's (50x2) set at 2, and gains on the mid bass set (160x2) set at a hair above 0

Some impressions of the music I listened to tonight:

MJ - Thriller
Great imaging with the footsteps, door, etc. - everything nice and high above the dash. This is one of the tracks that show off the ability to play high. 

Straight No Chaser - accapello (sp) tracks - fantastic reproduction of the voices - great separation of the individual singers. It was interesting to note that the lowest voice was still mostly on the mid bass drivers with these crossover points (noticed the same thing with Boys II Men track).

Diana Krall - Look of Love - I think these drivers are in love with her - the couple times I listened to her on these I was very impressed. The wires striking the cymbals didn't really sound any different then hearing them with my tweeters. Her voice sounded better to me on the XR's then with the mid bass drivers 

Fleetwood Mac - Tusk - I muted the mid bass and was surprised at the amount of percussion that was playing through the XR's. Even though it isn't much, I think it is pretty cool to have some percussion above the dash

The following tracks really showed off the high range: 
Men at Work, Cassandra Wilson, Rage Against the Machine (great upper bass guitar sound with the mid bass muted - no fatigue with the elec. Guitar)

The stand out albums of this listening session were Alana Davis and Marc Cohen which I'm going to make sure I bring to the meet on the 22nd. The drivers excelled on the voices, the piano of Cohen, and acoustic guitar

Anyway, I'm looking forward to getting some other's ears in the car, and I'll ask for them to chime in on this review.


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## bikerider (Dec 28, 2008)

Great, one of several things to look forward to on the 22nd!


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## The A Train (Jun 26, 2007)

so i got the honor of listening to these guys last saturday. all i can say is wow! i believe jason had them crossed playing 250Hz and up, and had the sub turned off when i listen to them. the clarity is absolutely amazing, especially to be playing such a broad range of frequencies. i think some could be happy without a tweeter, but if you want that extra sparkle of detail up top i would recommend crossing them pretty high with a nice set of tweeters. i cant wait to give it another listen once everything is installed and finalized. two thumbs up from me, good work jason!


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

Loving this review. So what's the price for a pair of these? Although I love my peerless fullrangers, I wanna try these with my Alpine pro tweets and a pair of Exodus anarchy midbass drivers.


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## bikerider (Dec 28, 2008)

I got a listening session with these in Jason's car on Saturday also and came away impressed. They sounded fantastic in temporary enclosures with basically no tuning so once Ryan gets his hands on the car I am sure things will only improve.

I was impressed by not only the clarity, but also the presence of these little guys. I listened to some of the same music that we had listened to earlier in the day and was impressed with how these speakers really made it come alive.

If it were me I would run these tweeterless for sure, but mine and Jason's preferences are a bit different so I also understand the reasoning behind having a tweeter in the mix crossed way high.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks Fellas!!!

I wish I could have listened to them with you guys, but I was busy enjoying Kendal's car 

Here is a link to a build that Bing just did in an MDX - fantastic! 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-member-build-logs/96905-audible-physics-zapco-install-08-acura-mdx.html

I am really looking forward to getting these installed - you all should be able to hear them installed at the Spring meet in High Point.

Here is some info that Mark wrote on the build thread above - referring to the off-axis mounting.

_I forgot to touch on this. You are correct sir. They where design to be very good off axis. I like to call it Phantom off-axis response or P.O.A.R.. Finebar install is one of the very best examples of this effect or P.O.A.R. I say Phantom because we can't beat physics, and as we know beaming is real, so we use amplitude to combat the beaming effect on the top end. So we many not be able to beat Physics but we can put up one hellva fight. Audible Physics at its best! 

Just you guys know what the above bold statement is about: 

Name: Audible Physics

Audible: Capable of being heard; loud enough to be heard; actually heard.
Physics: The Science of matter, energy, motion and force that can be actually heard!! 

Audible Physics = Basically a speaker.


Many will try to tell you cone designs and material doesn't make a very big difference, but I'm here to tell you it does! A great Super wide-band is all brought together by a great cone design. No matter how great the motor design is, if the cone design is not of the wide-band nature you will just have a very good small midrange, which is not a bad thing either. _

@ manish - you need to contact Mark (H-Audio, Inc) to get pricing, etc.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

I'm truly glad you guys enjoyed your listening time with the XR3M's. I have no doubt once Ryan gets them install in their permit homes they will by even better. Jason thanks for giving them a chance sir and allowing everyone at the G2G a chance to hear them.

Also just to add to the quote above as I edit it in the MDX post. They where design be be very good axis-off and to be very good for kick panel mounting.


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## King Nothing (Oct 10, 2005)

H-Audio Inc. said:


> Also just to add to the quote above as I edit it in the MDX post. They where design be be very good axis-off and to be very good for kick panel mounting.


Would they do well firing straight across in the kicks? I have big feet and dont want anything sticking out in my kick area


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## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

I really hope to make the spring meet in High Point. I would love to hear these. If I weren't in Street class I'd put a set in my pillars for sure. It would make a lovely match to my XR6.5M. When is the meet btw?


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

King Nothing said:


> Would they do well firing straight across in the kicks? I have big feet and dont want anything sticking out in my kick area


here you go:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-product-reviews/93004-look-ma-no-tweeters.html


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Velozity said:


> I really hope to make the spring meet in High Point. I would love to hear these. If I weren't in Street class I'd put a set in my pillars for sure. It would make a lovely match to my XR6.5M. When is the meet btw?



Would love to meet you. Drake and I have been talking about dates - Erin's North Alabama meet is April 16th, and I would love to make it down there for that. Another one of our group that has come down from VA can't do it much later than that due to an upcoming move. I have been considering late March, but we will talk about it a bit more and put up a thread. I'll make sure to send you a link when we get it posted.


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## Velozity (Jul 6, 2007)

Cool, I look forward to it. What type of amplification are you using?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I am using an Audison LRx 5.1k for my 3 way set up

A - 50x2 for tweets
B - 160x2 for mid bass
C - 750 x 1 for sub

If I retain the tweeters, will add another LRx amp for the widebanders.


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## minibox (Mar 25, 2009)

I had the pleasure of hearing these running full range the other day, both inside and outside of Jason's car, and I must say I was very impressed. Male and female vocals sounded especially smooth and detailed. The vocal range of Seal's Soul album and Joss Stone's You're a Dirty Man were as accurate as any midrange I've heard. 
I pushed Jason towards other midrange drivers but once again his selection and judgement have proved better than mine.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> Update.
> 
> It looks like the XR's are going in the kicks......
> 
> ...


From my build log.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Well, the install has been completed, and I couldn't be happier with the sound of the drivers.

A few pictures from the install:














































A review from a friend who was gracious enough to listen to them and put a light tune on the system. Very little eq work and very little Time Alignment needed.



minibox said:


> I just got back from Jason's after a long listening/tuning session and couldn't wait to write about these drivers. We spent only approximately 20 mins tuning and then listened to a wide range of music for about 3 hours. The capability and range of these drivers is like nothing I've heard in car audio. Jason had them set at 10k and, at one point while listening to Nils Lofgren, up to 20k. The depth, clarity, body, and presence of the guitar was truly unbelievable. The shimmer and brightness of cymbals were all there without a bit of harshness or fatigue and the crack of snares was crisp and defined. There was a distinct and focused smack from the beat of a kick drum on the dash and vocals were high and centered. With a crossover point of 10k and the smooth response of the drivers, it took little effort to focus the image while still maintaining tonality. I've heard Jason's car multiple times before this install and was impressed each time, but these drivers take it to a new level. I've drank the Kool Aid; I'm sold. I never thought I'd say this, because I love my thesis drivers, but it's more than likely that Audible Physics will be in my car at some point.


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

Don't know if anyone had already posted but what is the general consensus on how power rms for the xr3m?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

manish said:


> Don't know if anyone had already posted but what is the general consensus on how power rms for the xr3m?


That is a good Mark question. I have used as little as 50w on them and the did fine, and now have 120w on them - fantastic.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

This thread makes me wanna ditch the 12m and try these...

OMG, Jason, WTF have you done!?


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

Ok....mark...lol would 90watts rms from a Hertz ep2 or even 100watts rms from a kenwood kac-x4r be enough? Also to all the guys who is running the xr3m, what is the recommended airspace?


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

manish said:


> Ok....mark...lol would 90watts rms from a Hertz ep2 or even 100watts rms from a kenwood kac-x4r be enough? Also to all the guys who is running the xr3m, what is the recommended airspace?


I would not do any less then 50 watts rms on them if you want any real volume. Between 100-175 works best. I have had as much as 330 rms Sinfoni power on them @ 350hz at 24dbs , put wouldn't recommend that much power if don't know what your doing. They do love power, I wouldn't do much more then 250 watts rms on them, *but PLEASE control your powers guys.*t 

But it does depend on you enclosure size and crossover point.

As for as enclosure size. .75 - 1 liter or IB


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## EricP72 (Mar 23, 2008)

Wow now you got me thinking about getting two Hertz ep4x amps and bridging them both. ESP since apparently I don't need my spx pro tweeters any more. Thanks for the response mark. All jokes aside, I can't wait to put my order in. Just stashing away funds away from girl eyes. Actually I should sell my tweeters now and use that money towards a pair of xr3m. That's if all the reputable guys on here are accurate  just kidding I'm glad everybody has high praises for these. So I don't have any pre jitters about getting these.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> This thread makes me wanna ditch the 12m and try these...
> 
> OMG, Jason, WTF have you done!?


Sorry Bro! :blush:

I know the term fan boy is lurking out there, and I'm sure there are those who would question all of the fanfare surrounding these drivers - stating they aren't going to completely revolutionize mobile audio (a few folks on another audio forum come to mind). 

But, just in the last couple weeks...a guy with an amazing sounding top set up, with some of the most advanced (and costly) drivers, is completely 
impressed after about a 20 minute tune, Zach was very impressed with the MDX that Bing installed when Zach spent about 5 minutes tuning that car, and a dealer of a very reputable brand just bought a set because he just can't get the right sound out of the brand he reps, then there is something special about these drivers.

Also, the 12m was one of the 2-3 mids I was going to use if I went 3 way. I was convinced I needed a paper cone, and I needed a driver larger than 3" to play all of the range I wanted to play. Now that I have the XR's installed, I see real advantages running up to 10k with the 3's, and they play very nicely (with authority) down low.



manish said:


> Wow now you got me thinking about getting two Hertz ep4x amps and bridging them both. ESP since apparently I don't need my spx pro tweeters any more. Thanks for the response mark. All jokes aside, I can't wait to put my order in. Just stashing away funds away from girl eyes. Actually I should sell my tweeters now and use that money towards a pair of xr3m. That's if all the reputable guys on here are accurate  just kidding I'm glad everybody has high praises for these. So I don't have any pre jitters about getting these.


Some very reputable guys have heard them and have been impressed. I'm looking forward to my friend David E. listening / tuning them. I think that will be a real test.


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

bertholomey said:


> Sorry Bro! :blush:


Don't worry Jason, it's not your fault. Erin has a sickness- and he is trying to shift that blame. 

I believe an old sig of his went something like



> Buy, try, and sell x 10


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

So, I was listening to Peter Gabriel's 'So' and it sounded good, especially 'Don't Give Up' and 'Mercy Street', better than with my old set up, but not good enough to write on a forum about.

Then I put in something that sounded fantastic on the new drivers. Nickle Creek's first album. Mark, if you have heard this on your drivers, you really should attempt to. May not be your normal style of music, but it sounds incredible on the XR's.

Amazon.com: Nickel Creek: Nickel Creek: MP3 Downloads

_Nickel Creek are the acclaimed acoustic band specializing in bluegrass-rich sounds that often stray between country and indie rock while always sticking to the heavily bluegrass side of the music; a sound the band itself has referred to as "progressive acoustic" and "newgrass". The band formed in 1989 with Chris Thile (mandolin, vocals) and siblings Sara (violin, fiddle, vocals) and Sean Watkins (guitar, vocals) and originally with Chris Thile's father Scott playing string bass._

Both the male and female vocals are amazing, and the imaging of each instrument in the soundtage is flawless. From the high notes of the mandolin and violin, middle notes of the guitar, and the upper ranges of the acoustic bass - the XR's do a superlative job with this music - it really was like being in a small venue with these talented musicians playing right in front of me.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

bertholomey said:


> So, I was listening to Peter Gabriel's 'So' and it sounded good, especially 'Don't Give Up' and 'Mercy Street', better than with my old set up, but not good enough to write on a forum about.
> 
> Then I put in something that sounded fantastic on the new drivers. Nickle Creek's first album. Mark, if you have heard this on your drivers, you really should attempt to. May not be your normal style of music, but it sounds incredible on the XR's.
> 
> ...


LOL you would be very surprised at the style of music i listen to. I really and truly enjoy just about every genre of music. I just love music with a meaning. 

And stop it already, I don't even have drivers to build my own car with at the moment, they are all gone. My customers come first. So I envy you quite a bit at the moment.

So tell me what was lacking on the Peter Gabriel's tracks. I love feed back as we are always trying to improve on the designs.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Audible Physics said:


> So tell me what was lacking on the Peter Gabriel's tracks. I love feed back as we are always trying to improve on the designs.


Oh no.....I mislead.....there wasn't anything missing in Gabiel's tracks - better than they have ever sounded in my car - brilliant. I was just meaning it is on par with everything I am hearing in the car - great improvement - the things the midrange is supposed to do well (and a few things they aren't supposed to do ) they are doing very well. It's just that the Nickel Creek really shines a spotlight on the driver's excellence.

'Don't Give Up' - The Synth background was very well displayed - not a background nuisance - picking up a bit of the bass guitar with the mid range - presenting it above the dash (T-Shirt idea, "250 Hz and above....the dash"), this is something that I perceive now, that the bass sound is higher in the soundstage - large improvement over my last set up. Kate Bush's voice is so clear, airy, and perfectly centered in the sound stage.

'Mercy Street' - Again, the bass guitar in this song is amazing - finesse - has to have a lightness to it, but depth - so in this set up, there is an excellent blend between the midbass drivers and the XR's. The layered voices were very well defined, resolved. The triangle sounding instruments were very well defined, which in my listening, causes them to not be a background distraction. The penny whistle type instrument is perfect tonality wise. 

'Sledgehammer' and 'Big Time' both are very dynamic - can be played very loud with absolute composure. 

No, there wasn't anything wrong at all.....becoming the new 'normal'.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

bertholomey said:


> Oh no.....I mislead.....there wasn't anything missing in Gabiel's tracks - better than they have ever sounded in my car - brilliant. I was just meaning it is on par with everything I am hearing in the car - great improvement - the things the midrange is supposed to do well (and a few things they aren't supposed to do ) they are doing very well. It's just that the Nickel Creek really shines a spotlight on the driver's excellence.
> 
> 'Don't Give Up' - The Synth background was very well displayed - not a background nuisance - picking up a bit of the bass guitar with the mid range - presenting it above the dash (T-Shirt idea, "250 Hz and above....the dash"), this is something that I perceive now, that the bass sound is higher in the soundstage - large improvement over my last set up. Kate Bush's voice is so clear, airy, and perfectly centered in the sound stage.
> 
> ...



LOL, normal!! Man it time to improve them again, your getting use to the sound now.

But honestly I very happy everyone is loving the drivers. It just makes me happy that i'm not deaf:blush: and you guys are hearing what i heard in these drivers. When I first listen to the BeM3 with the XR3M is based off. I was like WoW, man this is a amazing sound little beast. I can't lie I had a reference driver that I was going after, but want to meet it and/or beat it with more usable range. One of my favorite drivers i ever owned was/is the modified 12m from Sonus Faber. Improve cone on the Sonus Faber version, it had a little more detail and open sound over the standard Scan version, but didn't lose any of the warmth the 12m has. They used a paper with wood fibers.

I love feedback and if there is something lacking in the sound reproduction of the drivers, please inform me and we will start working to improve it if it is physically possible and within a budget range. I Do not fool myself into thinking everyone will like Audible Physics transducers, but we do, do our best to offer verity of sonic signature in the different Series that will be please to just about anyone. But as we all know you can't please everyone.

But Jason I'm so jealous of you right now. Keep listening and joying your music because at the end of the day that is what it is all about.

Once more thanks for all your support and efforts.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> 'Sledgehammer' and 'Big Time'


Great tracks!


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## TheHulk9er (Oct 28, 2010)

I may have missed it somewhere but I have not been able to figure out what material the magnets are made of on these. My thought is they are neo magnets (I was hoping they were not neo because then you could make one with a smaller form factor). Also since I cannot seen to find it anywhere else, what do these sell for and where can I buy them? 

I was also a bit surprised at how they are angled since they are suppose to be so good off axis. I would have expected them to work well / better pointing more directly across the dash but I'm sure I'm wrong given the work that Jason has done here. Any info is greatly appreciated since I too have a E46 BMW in need of a final reinstall!! :laugh:

Best addiction on the planet.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks Hulk9er!

For a discussion about the magnet, pricing, etc.....that would be an excellent pm conversation with Mark (audible physics) above.

In terms of angling the drivers - they do work exceptionally well off-axis, and it was just personal preference to aim them the way I / Ryan did. The install may been simplified a bit if they were firing straight across.

You may have seen this review http://http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/93004-look-ma-no-tweeters.html

And this install
http://http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-member-build-logs/96905-audible-physics-zapco-install-08-acura-mdx.html

For more discussion on my aiming choice, shoot me a pm if you would like.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

TheHulk9er said:


> I may have missed it somewhere but I have not been able to figure out what material the magnets are made of on these. My thought is they are neo magnets (I was hoping they were not neo because then you could make one with a smaller form factor). Also since I cannot seen to find it anywhere else, what do these sell for and where can I buy them?
> 
> I was also a bit surprised at how they are angled since they are suppose to be so good off axis. I would have expected them to work well / better pointing more directly across the dash but I'm sure I'm wrong given the work that Jason has done here. Any info is greatly appreciated since I too have a E46 BMW in need of a final reinstall!! :laugh:
> 
> Best addiction on the planet.


They are indeed a 70mm flat Neo magnet. Everything on this drivers was done for one reason and one reason only. Linearity and balance. No bling No BS. Yep that includes the 70mm hulk of a Neo motor to the 5mm of one-way xmax, to the Rosewood or Iron Phase Plugs.

Also they work amazingly off-axis, but bottom line is, there is no better sound then direct sound. I somethings think we in mobile audio get why to caught up in the off axis response that we forget that direct sound it the purest. I completely understand it however as in the mobile environment it is quite hard to get drivers on-axis with out custom work. But if you are going to go through the trouble of building custom A-Pillar, Kicks etc...... way not get the driver as much on axis as you possible can without adverse effects on your imaging, stage width and depth. 

Every vehicle will be different as in the links Jason linked.

As for as pricing PM me if your interest.

and WoW tell me about the addiction i'm there with you.


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## kvndoom (Nov 13, 2009)

Hey Mark are you gonna have a new website soon?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

kvndoom said:


> Hey Mark are you gonna have a new website soon?


He is working on - lot's of production stuff going on right now - he is a one man show (a good one, but the only one).


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Jason - Did I read it right that you're only running these up to 10K? Do they roll off naturally from there?

Also, what's your HP on these? I saw Mark said something about 350Hz @ 24dB/Oct but I can't find your xo points.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Jason - Did I read it right that you're only running these up to 10K? Do they roll off naturally from there?
> 
> Also, what's your HP on these? I saw Mark said something about 350Hz @ 24dB/Oct but I can't find your xo points.


Here are the points / slopes that I am running right now.


_Tweet: HP 10k @ 24db to pass

Mid Range: HP 250hz @ 24db - LP 10k @ 12db

Mid Bass: HP 63hz @24db - 200hz @ 24db

Sub: HP - pass - 50hz @ 18db

I am running the tweeters active on the A stage of the 5.1k (50x2), and then the mid range on the separate 2.4 amp (120x2). _

They are very smooth (to my ears) all the way up to 20k - when I mute the tweets and play only the midrange - there is nothing that indicates the drivers are struggling to reproduce the upper portion of the frequency range. I just like the little bit that the tweeters provide up top. 

Here are a couple graphs that should help.



500hz and up amplified.


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## Melodic Acoustic (Oct 10, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> Jason - Did I read it right that you're only running these up to 10K? Do they roll off naturally from there?
> 
> Also, what's your HP on these? I saw Mark said something about 350Hz @ 24dB/Oct but I can't find your xo points.


As Jason stated they extended to and out past 20khz as you can see from the graph. No roll off at 10-21khz, They start to roll off around 22khz if I remember correctly.

Some will just prefer the slightly more airy sound of the small dome of a tweeter on the very top end. Is there a need for it no. It's more of what best in your install and/or goals of your install. The Key to the XR3M is, it can do just about anything you ask of it.

The [email protected] is just the start point I give to everyone as it is a safe starting point. But trust your ears and work from there. But it seems most end up in the 200-350hz range. 

But here is the key with any wide-band driver and I mean any no matter the size. The lower you try to play it the more adverse effect it will have on the very top end, until you hit that sweet spot for both. Once more there is no way to beat Physics, but we put up one hellva fight. Given the brand name, Audible Physics!


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Jason - Did I read it right that you're only running these up to 10K? Do they roll off naturally from there?
> 
> Also, what's your HP on these? I saw Mark said something about 350Hz @ 24dB/Oct but I can't find your xo points.


Paul, these would do just fine for your tastes I think. Having had a VERY short chance to tune with the MDX that Bing built has left me amazed to put it lightly. I should have my XR3M's in by the next time you come home for a visit. And then you can check them out in my car. I don't know of another widebander on the market that can touch them.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Audible Physics said:


> As Jason stated they extended to and out past 20khz as you can see from the graph. No roll off at 10-21khz, They start to roll off around 22khz if I remember correctly.
> 
> Some will just prefer the slightly more airy sound of the small dome of a tweeter on the very top end. Is there a need for it no. It's more of what best in your install and/or goals of your install. The Key to the XR3M is, it can do just about anything you ask of it.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% Mark. I found that out when I had my L4s in my GTI. I was really mostly curious about the 10K comment. 



Boostedrex said:


> Paul, these would do just fine for your tastes I think. Having had a VERY short chance to tune with the MDX that Bing built has left me amazed to put it lightly. I should have my XR3M's in by the next time you come home for a visit. And then you can check them out in my car. I don't know of another widebander on the market that can touch them.


I'm sure they would do just fine but assuming they fit in the A4 to begin with, they'd be WAY off axis (like firing at the windshield off-axis) so I'll have to see how that affects the top end.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

You might want to talk to Chefhow on here about that kind of aiming config.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Copy of post on my install thread.

Small update.

As mentioned previously, John came over with his RTA to get a reading on the new drivers themselves, and the system as a whole. After a few adjustments (fairly small EQ adjustments in the midrange area), we had a pretty linear display left to right. Everything sounded balanced, nothing standing out over anything else.

This past weekend, I traveled up to my friend David's house to give him listen to the drivers and to tweak the tune (or completely start from scratch if needed). David liked the overall sound, and I think he was happy with the capability of the 3" drivers. 

He immediately changed the crossover slopes from 24 db to 12 db to smooth out the sound a little bit on the tweet, mid range, and the LP of the mid bass drivers. He made a few adjustments to the EQ from ear, and then verified with the RTA. Overall, not a ton of changes were made from what John had set up. 

I am extremely happy with the sound, I feel that David tightened up the image just that little bit. Hopefully, John will be able to listen to the car this week to give me a little feed back on the changes. I'm looking forward to getting more feedback at the Blacksburg meet in a couple weeks.


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