# Evan's 1980 Malibu



## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

If you've already seen this you'll have to bear with me, but I'm going to eventually be asking questions so I'll want as much constructive input as possible. For now, I'll bring everyone up to speed.

It will still be a few months before I can install most of this stuff, but I thought I would start a log to document the collection of gear too. 

I’m not sure if this is the order that most people follow when they are planning out their systems, but I started with the amps. I found a good deal on an Audison LRx 1.400 and 2.250, and thought that was all I would need. Then I found the world of DIY and started to rethink things. Instead of selling the 2 channel and switching to 4, I kept my eyes peeled for a dedicated tweeter amp and when I came across an LRx 2.150 I snatched it up.










The second part I picked up was the JL 12w6v2. I’ve always had a thing for this sub, so when I was finally able to own one I had to make it mine.










After a disastrous attempt to pick up a cheap active crossover on eBay, I came across an AudioControl DQX. I thought I had read everything there was to read about it, but I should have done a bit more research to find out that I would probably end up wanting some time alignment. I think I’ll stick with the DQX for my first attempt at DIY and then when I’ve trained my ear to figure out what I could stand to gain by adding T/A I’ll look into it further.










Today I came home to find a UPS delivery on my doorstep. I made an order through Rob at Art of Noise for some stuff from PE and Madisound. From PE, there was a few installation goodies like 1/0 ring terminals, a ground terminal, a pair of 8” speaker grills, a Jasper Jig, and some Reference RS-180’s. From Madisound I got a pair of Seas Neo tweets.


















RS-180









Here’s a shot of the JL and PE grills side by side.









This is how snug the mounting rings for the 8” PE grills fit around the RS-180.









Seas Neo









Here is everything so far (HU still to come).


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## scott_fx (Mar 31, 2006)

nice gear! can't wait to see how you plan on installing all of that!


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

scott_fx said:


> nice gear! can't wait to see how you plan on installing all of that!


Me too! Let me know when you get it figured out. 



So far, the speaker locations are still up in the air since I haven't listened to them yet, but I got the small format tweets to allow me to use an A-pillar location if that sounds good. The door pods will have to be custom, and in the trunk I'm leaning toward a fiberglass spare tire well enclosure and a false floor to hide the amps.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Here's a pic of the trunk. 

*Beware: It's old and dirty. At some point it might not be dirty, but it will always be old.*


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

aaahhhh the Boo. I have done bunches of installs in this type of car (I owned a monte myself), they were popular in HS..... I see you have already popped out the trunk lid torsion springs 

Chad


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

chad said:


> aaahhhh the Boo. I have done bunches of installs in this type of car (I owned a monte myself), they were popular in HS..... I see you have already popped out the trunk lid torsion springs
> Chad


Yeah, they are still pretty popular with the drag racing crowd and they are just gaining a bit of popularity in the domestic autoX crowd. My project is aiming more toward pro-touring/autoX than drag racing.


I've been spending a fair bit of time lately trying to choose a HU. The new Clarion decks have really peaked my interest. There is a Canadian online retailer that can get the DXZ675USB to my door authorized for $255USD. It's got 24bit DAC's, 6volt pre-outs, USB input, and a motorized sloping face that would come in handy because of the low radio location in my car. The faceplate looks a little busy with all those buttons, but I like how it's mostly black.









http://www.clarion.com/us/en/produc...DXZ675USB/us-en-product-pf_1165294998440.html

Have any of you played with these HUs?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Why not go with a head unit with crossovers and time allignment built in? Im sure you looked at the 880 prs and the eclipses or alpine, why not?


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## Vestax (Aug 16, 2005)

That's some freakin' nice equipment.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Vestax said:


> That's some freakin' nice equipment.


 Thanks. 



tyroneshoes said:


> Why not go with a head unit with crossovers and time allignment built in? Im sure you looked at the 880 prs and the eclipses or alpine, why not?


These were my thoughts on the topic as of three days ago.


evan said:


> After a disastrous attempt to pick up a cheap active crossover on eBay, I came across an AudioControl DQX. I thought I had read everything there was to read about it, but I should have done a bit more research to find out that I would probably end up wanting some time alignment. I think I’ll stick with the DQX for my first attempt at DIY and then when I’ve trained my ear to figure out what I could stand to gain by adding T/A I’ll look into it further.


Do you think I should just get a deck with T/A right off the bat? Money is definitely a factor in the selection process. If I were to consider stepping up to the price of the 880 and comparable, I think I would throw the DXZ775USB into the mix too. It has the same capabilities as the 880 plus USB, Bluetooth, and a motorized face.


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

The Sony CDX-GT710 (or something like that) that I picked up sports basic T/A, 4 independent 13band GEQs, some DSO (to make the stage appear wider, higher, etc though I don't care for it personally) and high/low pass xovers....all for around $160 shipped new...

Of course, if you've got more to spend then I probably would...

Jeremy


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

evan said:


> If you've already seen this you'll have to bear with me, but I'm going to eventually be asking questions so I'll want as much constructive input as possible. For now, I'll bring everyone up to speed.
> 
> Whats your address? I thin I am going to rip you off tonight! LOL


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

^^^^thats kind of an uncool post......

are you sure stealth is in order? I have a pretty good idea for an amprack.

Naturally a false floor is in order if for no better reason than to give the trunk a nice finish. I think thats the best space for the subwoofer short of IB in the rear deck. testing may be in order to determine the best performance location, but under the floor hidden by a grille covered in the same carpet you cover the floor with makes for total stealth and total protection combined with total functionality and the total "cool" factor. no JL grille required!

The amplifiers are so attractive and small (and they match!), it seems almost such a shame to go for 100% stealth. In this case, I think I would stack them. Because they are not the same size, they would look rather silly laid end to end. A lack of amplinks makes for an even worse look. placed one above the other above the other (second largest dimension) would take up a ton of floorspace, and wouldnt gain you anything in aesthetic terms.

But stacked, you've got an interesting option. Because they are offset, you can mount the smallest amp on the bottom, then use longer and longer spacers placed wider and wider to go bigger and bigger, making a triple amp stack about 9 inches tall (ballpark). Because of the supports, the rack will have a natural squared off look which should expand the size (psychosomatically) of the bottom amp and also allow for plenty of space for wire runs.

your spacers would be made from tube aluminum. all the wiring would be fed from under the false floor directly under the point it attaches to an amplifier. You could then drill holes for more aluminum tubing to use as conduit between the floor and the amp so you never see any hanging wires, but rather nicely finished cable runs. You can experiment with conduit sizes, whether its best to use a uniform size or if many different sizes look best.

but this would look rather sharp, as the upper "higher" amps would essentially be floating on a bed of thin posts, yet no wiring exposed.

This whole assembly can be placed to the right behind the taillight, where many folks like to install subwoofers.

the wiring would run to just under the false floor (as stated before), where a compartment would be large enough to allow you to route wiring in a neat and tidy way (read: a way that looks good), and also locate your DQS. Tuning would be done from the DDC you would buy. That wouldnt have a permanent home in your car either. *Just in case* you change your mind.

--->If you decide to tune a 2-seat car, you may discover you don't need T/A!<---

I can think of many clever ways to build the assembly so that its accessible/serviceable in different ways, and I think you will too if you can vizualize what I am trying to explain.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> but under the floor hidden by a grille covered in the same carpet you cover the floor with makes for total stealth and total protection combined with total functionality and the total "cool" factor.



http://semi.noobing.com/36.JPG
http://semi.noobing.com/37.JPG

if you reuse the same carpet for the hatch/grille (because bass doesn't care), the results can look fantastic.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Wow. I hadn't thought about stacking them with the smallest on the bottom and largest on top. That would be really cool. Those are all really good ideas. Hmmm... My mind is racing!

Thanks for the inspiration!


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

anytime, ive just scratched the surface of ideas. just ask alphakenny1 

how about installing those amps on boards on drawer glides so they slide out, exposing the gain covers?

then the whole thing can be a hinge (you can use the trunk carpet as a hinge) and you can lay the rack on its side by bending over that section of floor, exposing the cavity underneath to access wiring, fuses, and of course the signal processor.

by the way, would you believe me if I told you there was a 12 inch idmax invert mounted underneath the floor in that picture? 


also by the way, if you like to get fancy, tap and die sets can cut plastic and retailers like tapplastics sell acrylic machine screws.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Since the speaker rings will basically sit on the left and right side of the spare tire opening I was just planning on laying the amps out to the left of the sub. The right side of the opening is about an inch higher than the left so to level the sub I will have to put lift the left side by about an inch, add 3/4" for the mounting ring, plus about 2" for the depth of the top part of the sub and excursion. That leaves about 3" that I could use to hide all the amps if I do decided to go all stealth. 

...but I think that idea of stacking them would look pretty nice too...


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Here are my attempts to illustrate what I was originally planning to do.

Side cutaway view:









View from above:










Wow, I sure do suck at SketchUp! Anyway, this is what I managed to create to make sure I'm on the same page as you with your stacking idea. Is this kind of what you meant?


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Autiophile said:


> Just out of curiosity, how beefy are these aluminum spacers being discussed? It would seem to me that under hard braking or cornering, the whole deal is going to want to buckle like a house of cards unless you do some triangulation in your support structure. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but to me it seems structurally unsound unless you move away from having 4 individual legs for each amp.


I agree. There would have to be something to strengthen the structure. Maybe since it will be up against a wall I could use that as a connecting point and make some shelves out of metal or plexi. That way the supports would only be in the front and there would be much less strain on them.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

no structural problems whatsoever.

but if you are really concerned, you just use allthread along with T-nuts inserted into the bottom of the false floor. you should easily be able to get the neccesary compression to prevent buckling.

the photo depicts very accurately what the stack could look like. There would also be additional filler columns as that would be the ideal way to route the wiring. (just hanging the wiring under there would look monumentally bad.)


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

and realistically, to have problems even if you were to use really long screws (even for the top amp) you need two bending moments. presumably this would be at the ampfeet themselves and at the surface of the false floor. bending at these two locations cause the "buckling" failure you are talking about. This cannot happen because the screw would be supported by its .75 inches of travel into the false floor. This will fully support both middle and upper amplifier with plenty of rigidity.

even without T-nuts, allthread will hold very rigidly for the same reason. And maybe more rigidly depending on how you machine the holes in the bottom of the floor for the threading. tighter tolerance means less ability to wiggle means tightly installed amplifiers regardless of driving style.





The problem with just laying them next to each other under the floor is the odd size discrepancy between amps. either hides the amp ends for some amplifiers, or leaves an excessive amount of open space. Now, if you get clever and install your fused D-block in the open space and _very, very_ neatly run the wiring, then I think it could work out extreemely well. once again, RCA,REM, and output distribution and probably ground distribution would rest another level down under the amplifiers.

But if you wanted the type of install where you only see amplifiers and subwoofer, might not work out so well aesthetically orthagonally.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

good idea, and very easy to test as stated!


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

This might seem like more of a diary entry than anything else, but anyway... here it is.

As much as I hate to let things like reality and logic affect a good thing like this, I’ve come to realize that I can’t afford this system. I made the mistake of overestimating and mismanaging my budget and now I’ve got an incomplete system with mismatched gear. 

The aspect that seems most obvious to me is that I’ve spent too much on amps. I hate to do it, but I think I’m going to have to sell some of this gear and pick up some less expensive stuff. The Dayton and Seas are on the right track in terms of cost so I need the rest of the system to be on par with those.

I’ve got access to a Blaupunkt GTA4 ([email protected]) that I could use for the front stage, so I could sell the 2.150 and the 2.250. The substage is more complicated mostly because of the 12w6v2. If I were to sell the 1.400 and keep the 12w6v2, it would be difficult to find another amp to provide [email protected] for a whole lot less money. I probably couldn’t sell the 12w6 for much more than the possible replacements, but I could use a less expensive amp if I got two 10” 4ohm subs that are more efficient and run them off of another GTA4.









I’m a little confused and a little depressed. What are your thoughts on the matter?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

evan said:


> This might seem like more of a diary entry than anything else, but anyway... here it is.
> 
> As much as I hate to let things like reality and logic affect a good thing like this, I’ve come to realize that I can’t afford this system. I made the mistake of overestimating and mismanaging my budget and now I’ve got an incomplete system with mismatched gear.
> 
> ...


Keep your head up, I think it's going to work just fine. You will have twice the cone surface area for the subs (you were only using one JL right?), they are insanely efficient as JBL's tend to be. The mid/hi's are what you want and the sound of the amps.... well.... I won't get into that argumnent but I really don't think you will notice an enormous difference.

Chad


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## Loudtaco (Dec 7, 2006)

If you still need a H/U I've got a sony 5di. I'll let you have for $225

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-jR1Cc9j2RC1/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?I=158MEX5DI&s=41


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

chad said:


> Keep your head up, I think it's going to work just fine. You will have twice the cone surface area for the subs (you were only using one JL right?), they are insanely efficient as JBL's tend to be. The mid/hi's are what you want and the sound of the amps.... well.... I won't get into that argumnent but I really don't think you will notice an enormous difference.
> 
> Chad


Thanks Chad. 



Loudtaco said:


> If you still need a H/U I've got a sony 5di. I'll let you have for $225
> 
> http://www.crutchfield.com/S-jR1Cc9j2RC1/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?I=158MEX5DI&s=41


OK, I'll keep that in mind.


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## sqkev (Mar 7, 2005)

I would keep the JL12w6v2. I had a couple of them and even 1 10" got loud enough for my taste. You probably don't want to downgrade that sub.

What you can do is downgrade the amps. You could probably fine the JBL gto or the Phoenix Gold Xenon amps on ebay for decent prices. I'd also ditch that DQX and put a bit of funds towards a 3way capable HU.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

I agree with the subwoofer. for sure. And definitely the amplifiers IF you dont have them yet.

But as a budget alternative, I'd say your best bet is to go with a very simple radio and use the DQX. To save money.

The Denford 8240 comes to mind as a great transport for dirt money. I paid less than $225 for the one in my room.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

I'd be happy to use a GTO75.4 and 601.1 and that would allow me to keep the 12w6, but I'm not sure they are within my budget. I could have the two GTA4's for the same price as a GTO75.4.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

any blau amps that will power a 12w6?


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

Evan, 
Check out my for sale post. Selling some of the PCA2120 Blaupunkt amps (the 2 x 120 that were in the hot deals area). Might be something that fits your budget.

Juan


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## shinjohn (Feb 8, 2006)

Evan,
Things do happen, and it sounds like you're rolling with the punches. There's no doubt that speaker selection and system setup are going to be the most important factors that determine how your system is going to sound. If you are limited in budget, my advice is to not skimp on speakers (get the best speakers for your tastes, that you can afford) and then get associated gear to support that. You'll end up with the most bang for the buck, and by the sounds of things, that's what you're headed toward.

In that end, I'd keep the JL if you can, since it is a fine sub.

This, coming from a guy who has an electronics-fetish myself!


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Thanks for the input everybody.

There's no going back now! I just sold the 2.250 and the 2.150. I'm still a little torn about the 1.400 though. I'd love to be able to keep the 12w6 and that means I'd need to find another amp that does basically what the 1.400 does. Once shipping is factored in I'm having trouble finding an amp to fit the bill and save some money.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

does your subwoofer NEED uberpower? I'm running a super ineficient subwoofer and feeding it less than 100 rms. Sounds great and I can hear it with the car running. What more could I ask for?

are you sure you need so much power?


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> does your subwoofer NEED uberpower? I'm running a super ineficient subwoofer and feeding it less than 100 rms. Sounds great and I can hear it with the car running. What more could I ask for?
> 
> are you sure you need so much power?


That's a good question. I haven't heard many opinions on this sub running on much less the what JL considers optimum.

In this case, at the top of the post he said the test was done using half of the amp and then in the w6 section he said he wired it to 8 ohms. Does that mean he tested it with ~125watts? That would be the least I've seen.

Edit: Nevermind, I just looked up the specs on the amp and it would have been running on ~525watts.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

I suggest you evaluate your bass needs. Are you one of those people who "wants SQ at all costs, but still likes to crank the bass from time to time"? I understand your amp struggle. Do you define your bass needs as "in the pursuit of SQ at all costs"? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that a couple hundred RMS is more than all you need 

(FYI I can reach about 20 hz with less than 100 rms to subbass)

By the way, any updates on your AV cabinet? that thread pops up at the bottom of my IE window, Id love to see a completed and populated cab complete with hinged door


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> I suggest you evaluate your bass needs. Are you one of those people who "wants SQ at all costs, but still likes to crank the bass from time to time"? I understand your amp struggle. Do you define your bass needs as "in the pursuit of SQ at all costs"? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that a couple hundred RMS is more than all you need
> 
> (FYI I can reach about 20 hz with less than 100 rms to subbass)


I'm pretty sure I'm more the former than the latter, and I've discovered something else about myself while trying to figure this out. I really want my amps to match. The idea of having amps from different companies bothers me. My dad would say "Beggars can't be choosers", but I want to be chooser!  




Whiterabbit said:


> By the way, any updates on your AV cabinet? that thread pops up at the bottom of my IE window, Id love to see a completed and populated cab complete with hinged door


Actually, I'm hoping to make some progress tomorrow night. I wanted to round the edges of the cabinet before I paint it so I had to find a friend that has a router. Hopefully I'll get the edges rounded off and most of the paint-prep done tomorrow.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

you think you had it bad, I decided my amps should not only match brand, but match in size, too! 8\

so what kind of bass amps are available? and what VC configuration is your W6?


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> you think you had it bad, I decided my amps should not only match brand, but match in size, too! 8\
> 
> so what kind of bass amps are available? and what VC configuration is your W6?


The w6 is dual 4 ohm. I'm thinking that I'll be happy with anything >500 watts. There are only two amps that I'm seriously considering right now and those are the JBL GTO600.1 and the Alpine MRP-M650.

Which others should I consider in that pricerange?


Edit: Is the Phoenix Gold Octane series garbage? An R8.0:1 and an R8.0:4 would fit the bill for approximate power output. I'm a little leery of anything that inexpensive that has blue lights on it. (It's almost as bad as chrome.)


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

I did some more looking around with matching a 4 channel and a 2ohm mono in mind.

Profile HA1040 + HA1000M (80x4, 500x1) $190
Phoenix Gold R8.0:4 + R8.0:1 (75x4, 600x1) $330
Blaupunkt VA4100 + VA1400 (100x4, 600x1) $380 
Alpine MRP-F450 + MRP-M650 (75x4, 600x1) $440
JBL GTO74.4 + GTO600.1 (100x4, 600x1) $470

It looks like Overstock is outofstock on the Mark Antony mono amps.


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## 02bluesuperroo (Oct 31, 2006)

evan said:


> I did some more looking around with matching a 4 channel and a 2ohm mono in mind.
> 
> Profile HA1040 + HA1000M (80x4, 500x1) $190
> Phoenix Gold R8.0:4 + R8.0:1 (75x4, 600x1) $330
> ...


I would go with one of the bottom 3. The Blaupunkt can be installed together as one amp very nicely and have gotten a lot of good reviews around here. Someone posted guts pics very recently on this forum as well. They will save you some serious cash over the other two and would probably be my choice all though they're all on par with eachother I think.

The PG Octane amps aren't very good. I have heard the R15.0:1 and it sounds like major garbage and the owner isn't happy with it.


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## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

I'd go with the Blaupunkts as well. Or the JBL setup if you want to spend the extra cash. Since you're coming down from Audisons the JBLs would still save you a lot of cash.

Or if you can get a good deal on some PG Xenons, that would be another option. I picked up a x100.4 and a x400.1 for under $300 shipped recently on eBay.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Here's the new list of possibilities with updated eBay prices including shipping.

Blaupunkt VA4100 + VA1400 (100x4, 600x1) $350
The price is good, but I'll need to find some more opinions on how clean the sound is and how reliable they are. The size wouldn't be a big concern for me since I might not use the trim pieces and build a false floor around them instead.

JBL GTO74.4 + GTO600.1 (100x4, 600x1) $375
They're big! These are 15"x13" and without the trim pieces the Blau's are 15"x8.5". I read a few posts on CA.com about how these draw more power than most amps from a car's electrical system, and that they aren't very efficient. I'm not sure if there's any truth to that.

Alpine MRP-F450 + MRP-M650 (75x4, 600x1) $395
I'm almost ready to cross these off the list. They are more expensive, put out less power, and I've noticed some people having issues with the mounting tabs snapping off. ...but they look cool.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

Consider two identical 4 channel amps if they are cheaper.

bridged dual mono you might have the power you want.

I figure 2x100 is good for about 250-300 at 4 ohms mono? Would be 5-600 for your w6 

does that cheapen your pricing a bit?

(it also increases flexibility if you ever decide to lower subwoofer power and go with a 3 way active stage in the future)


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> Consider two identical 4 channel amps if they are cheaper.
> 
> bridged dual mono you might have the power you want.
> 
> ...


Most of the 4 channel amps in my price range aren't stable at 2 ohms when they're bridged. The w6 has two 4 ohm voice coils so I'd have to run it at 8 ohms if I wanted to run it off of 2 bridged channels. 

Or do you mean I should run each 4 ohm voice coil off of 2 bridged channels?


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## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

evan said:


> Or do you mean I should run each 4 ohm voice coil off of 2 bridged channels?


I wouldn't want to do that. Most mono amps are cheaper per watt anyways it seems like. 

I still like the Blau amps myself, based on size, power and looks. Never heard one myself, but it seems they have pretty good reviews.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

I'm starting to lean toward the Blaupunkts. Do any of you have experience with their “thermal Throttle” circuit?


http://www.blaupunkt.com/us/7607792193_main.asp said:


> Tired of high power amps that overheat and shut down? Our Velocity amps keep right on blasting – thanks to our unique “thermal Throttle” circuit, when the heat goes up, the amp gain adjusts automatically to prevent overheating from happening in the first place.


I'm not usually a big fan of technology that controls itself.


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## yermolovd (Oct 10, 2005)

What's wrong with temp-regulated fans?  
I had this stuff in various amps and it never gave me any headache. Of course I did hear the fan in the trunk when I was parked in my garage and it was all quiet .

What's your concern with the fans? The control part? If it fails to gun it when needed?


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

yermolovd said:


> What's wrong with temp-regulated fans?
> I had this stuff in various amps and it never gave me any headache. Of course I did hear the fan in the trunk when I was parked in my garage and it was all quiet .
> 
> What's your concern with the fans? The control part? If it fails to gun it when needed?


They aren't fans (as far as I know). The website says that the amp automatically adjusts the gain settings when it starts to get hot.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

Thats a great feature. Now when your midrages draw more from an amp and overheat it more than your tweeter amp, it'll automatically compensate by taking your carefully tuned settings and tossing them out the window 8\

Forget that.

But yes, I was referring to running each coil to the bridged channels of a 4 channel amp. One amp. One subwoofer. The suggestion was made with the if statement that the 4 channel was cheaper than the monoblock you wanted. Just takes a little extra time setting the gains. Two identical 4 channel amps would run the entire stereo.


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

Whiterabbit said:


> Thats a great feature. Now when your midrages draw more from an amp and overheat it more than your tweeter amp, it'll automatically compensate by taking your carefully tuned settings and tossing them out the window 8\
> 
> Forget that.
> 
> But yes, I was referring to running each coil to the bridged channels of a 4 channel amp. One amp. One subwoofer. The suggestion was made with the if statement that the 4 channel was cheaper than the monoblock you wanted. Just takes a little extra time setting the gains. Two identical 4 channel amps would run the entire stereo.


If I'm reading it correctly, it does like the old Soundstream reference amps. Instead of abruptly shutting off (and then depending on if you turn the radio down or not, blasting you at full blast when it cools off enough), it turns down the volume on everything and ramps back up to full power once its cooled off. If you keep cranking it and don't give it a chance to cool off, it will shut off as a last resort.

Most amps don't overheat playing regular music, unless you are playing the test tone sweep or have the amp stuffed in an application that it shouldn't be in, you should rarely see that gain feature in action. 

Juan


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

I just called Blaupunkt-USA about their Thermal Throttle circuit and I'm pretty sure the guy that answered the phone hates his job. Anyway, the only information about how it works that I could squeeze out of him was that "It is barely noticeable."

On another note, hooray for deliveries!

My order of Raammat arrived today. I picked up a roll of the B-stock that Rick was selling at a reduced price a while back. The product was too thin to be sold as the regular stock but I'll just use more layers if I need to.



















The sneaky hiding spot for the adhesive.



















Here's the best close-up of the Ensolite I could manage to take.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Thermal throttle adjusts rail voltage before clipping and just keeps the amp from going in protect. It doesnt mess with gains and I never noticed it running all 4 or 6 ohm speakers.


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## 02bluesuperroo (Oct 31, 2006)

The PG Xenon's have the same feature. Please don't think of it like it adjusts your gain knobs or anything. If the amp gets to a point where it is going to overheat and go into protect, instead of shutting off it just lowers the output a little bit until it is cooled off. If you're running the amp in a proper situation this will probably never happen and if it does ever happen, it is still better than the amp shutting off completely even if it messes up your sound a little bit. Once the amp cools off, the sound/tuning will return to normal and you will probably never notice it even happened becuase it is so subtle.


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## OldOneEye (Jun 16, 2005)

Keep in mind unless you have 2 power supplies in your four channel amp, the drop in voltage rails on the power supply will probably drop the output level equally across all 4 channels. Now if you have 2 amps and one thermals before the other that is another story.
Juan


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

The going rate for the LRx has gone down a fair bit recently. I guess the dealers have been selling off all their old stock since the new versions are out now. I did OK on the sale of the 2.250 and 2.150, but it didn't really make much sense to sell the 1.400 for that much of a loss, especially since I really like the amp.

I managed to sell my Xbox and a couple cymbals, so I'm going to stick with Audison. The idea of streamlining the system sounds good so I decided to go with a 4.300 from a guy on eBay. It doesn't have the same output as the other amps I was looking at, but I like everything else about these amps. Hopefully the limited power won't cripple my system.

Another way I've decided to streamline a bit is by selling the DQX. The TS-C720PRS have been looking more and more tempting, and I think I'm going to pull the trigger. If I start by running them with the passive crossovers and bridging the amp, that will be ~200 watts per side.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

I need some input. I got the stock radio out of the dash and I'm trying to find the best way to install my new HU. 

The stock trim panel looks like this:


and the radio is held in place by a metal bracket:


I was hoping that the metal bracket would go all the way around the radio so that I could just cut out a hole big enough for the cage, but no such luck.

Do you think I should build a new bracket to replace the stock one and reinstall the factory trim panel, or do you think I should make a new panel to cover the whole area and hold the HU's cage?

If you think I should make a whole new panel, what do you think it should be made of, and how do you think I should attach it (the mounting screws on the top of the factory trim panel go in at an upward angle.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Tonight I took this:










and made this (still need to paint it black):










by doing this:


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Nice!!!


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Here it is during painting.









and all done. Hopefully the metal provides the strength needed to support the weight of the deck.


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## 02bluesuperroo (Oct 31, 2006)

Very nice.


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## minitruck_freq (Mar 27, 2005)

where did you find the grills on PE's website? i cant seem to find them.


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## minitruck_freq (Mar 27, 2005)

nevermind. i found them.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Here are some pictures of the Pioneer stuff that's now part of the plan.

*-*DEH-P780MP






























*-*TS-C720PRS


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

evan said:


> Here it is during painting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice job! What did you use to take the place of the main support bracket behind the beauty panel? You will need something or it's going to flop around in there. I fabbed up another bracket (yes I looked for the old one and could not find it, but I found the stock AM radio $300 bucks and it's yours (becuase it's "Vintage " )) Set this bracket in, put the radio just like you have it on your panel in then attached it to the sub panel with the flip out bendie things. I always thought it was kinda ghetto but it was REALLY solid with 2 mounting points.


Chad


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

chad said:


> Nice job! What did you use to take the place of the main support bracket behind the beauty panel? You will need something or it's going to flop around in there. I fabbed up another bracket (yes I looked for the old one and could not find it, but I found the stock AM radio $300 bucks and it's yours (becuase it's "Vintage " )) Set this bracket in, put the radio just like you have it on your panel in then attached it to the sub panel with the flip out bendie things. I always thought it was kinda ghetto but it was REALLY solid with 2 mounting points.
> 
> 
> Chad


I think I follow what you mean. (You used the tabs on the cage to attach it to both the trim and the bracket???...) I was going to cut the bracket along the red lines and bend it back along the green lines and basically just use it as support, but I didn't even think of bending the cage's tabs to attach it to the bracket too. I'll give it a shot with this stock one and if that doesn't work I'll make a new one out of sheet metal. Thanks for the tip.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

egg-zachary!


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

The 4.300 finally arrived today, so I now have pretty much all of the major components for the install.

Here's the 4.300









and the 1.400 & 4.300 together.









Here are the pretty boxes. 











This is the plan (at least it has been for the last week) but I think I might be switching out the distribution blocks for something else.









Please don't hate me for using passive crossovers.


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## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

Looks like a simple yet high quality setup, very nice. And that Stinger distro block you found looks perfect, I think I'm going to get one to replace the POS Knu that I have.


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## jearhart (Jul 28, 2006)

khail19 said:


> Looks like a simple yet high quality setup, very nice. And that Stinger distro block you found looks perfect, I think I'm going to get one to replace the POS Knu that I have.


you know after taking my amp rack out and putting it back in, i am thinking the same thing. the idea for them seems good but actually using them is a pain in the ass.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

khail19 said:


> Looks like a simple yet high quality setup, very nice. And that Stinger distro block you found looks perfect, I think I'm going to get one to replace the POS Knu that I have.


Are you thinking of this one?









or the Streetwires one?


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## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

evan said:


>


That one. I only have 2 amps and no place to fit that huge Streetwires one. I'm glad you found that Stinger one on sale, it should be perfect to replace the Knu one.


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## jearhart (Jul 28, 2006)

evan said:


> Are you thinking of this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


im looking at the streetwires one. i have 4 amps and it has ground and power. has anybody had good luck with them?


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## 6APPEAL (Apr 5, 2007)

I love installs in 78 - 87 G-body cars. I really guess I should since I've owned so many of them. Looking good so far.
John


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## Mr Marv (Aug 19, 2005)

6APPEAL said:


> I love installs in 78 - 87 G-body cars. I really guess I should since I've owned so many of them. Looking good so far.
> John


I'm a g-body fan myself (Evans 80 Malibu is technically an A-body) and it looks like you have a nice collection of them yourself


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Quick update:

I managed to graduate from university. Things got a little tense there toward the end, but everything turned out peachy. 

A couple weeks after I installed the HU my car decided to start showing it's age. It has now been downgraded (or upgraded, depending on how you look at it) to a complete rebuild. I'm sick of being surprised by little bugs and problems so I figure I'll take it down to the frame and twist every bolt myself. That way I won't be leaving anything to chance.

Since the audio install is on hold, is there anything I should do with the gear to make sure it's still good as new when I finally get to install it? I've wrapped the Raammat in Saran wrap to make sure it's air tight and I've got all the electronic stuff back in it's original packaging. Is that all I should do?


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## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

Congrats man, glad to see you back here! I think you've covered the bases as far as protecting your gear. I think the mat would be the only thing that might have a shelf life, the electronics should be fine as long as they are in a fairly dry environment.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

What failed to "show it's age?" You probably know why I'm wondering  How many miles does it have on it. I rolled my Monte out to 280K before it burnt to the ground  I loved that car.


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## evan (Dec 2, 2006)

Thanks khail19.

Chad, the brakes were the latest thing to go (rotten lines). Before that it was a little electrical gremlin that would drain the battery if I left it for more than a few days. Rust is a major concern and having to repair or replace panels in the near future is stopping me from applying any sound deadener.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

evan said:


> Thanks khail19.
> 
> Chad, the brakes were the latest thing to go (rotten lines). Before that it was a little electrical gremlin that would drain the battery if I left it for more than a few days. Rust is a major concern and having to repair or replace panels in the near future is stopping me from applying any sound deadener.


Lemme guess, the brake line went on the drivers side headed to the rear, right under the drivers door. So if you put your leg out to get out and drew a line from your leg to the passenger seat it was right there on the frame?

Been there  Watch the cylinders on the rear drums too, I popped one once putting too much pressure on the brakes. I had the electrical issue too but it was a diode in the alternator. Check your headlight switch for discoloration or crummy feel, that's another one that goes... when you need it of course  

Chad


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