# Arc PS8 Official Release Info



## ISTundra

From here...

ARC Audio Community Forums


PS8 release date, pricing and more **OFFICIAL!** 

This past weekend ARC Audio attended the annual MERA Knowledgefest event in Dallas Texas with over 1000 attendee's/exhibitors exclusively all from the car audio industry for 3 days of educational tracks, products seminars, trainings and a lot of one on one conversations about the industry and the market we have all grown to love.

During this event on Sunday ARC Audio held its first official PS8 ...product overview seminar in which we discussed several of the fine art details of this wonderful technology and what makes it work. At the end of this presentation we also announced its release date and pricing to those who were in attendance. With that said, ARC Audio is proud to announce this information to its loyal and faithful consumers and product fans.

Currently the PS8 is actively in 100% production here in the United States and all parts are in hand. We anticipate a smooth and uneventful production however with this being the first production we are taking extra steps to ensure that the PS8 will be fault free assuring that your first impression of the product will be as impressive as the technology itself. We will be under going a 100% full feature QC on every unit from the first production run and the units will not be released in "ANY" capacity until this is complete.

Our expected ship date from ARC Audio Inc to authorized US and Export clients is to "begin" during the "week" of September 23rd 2012 or sooner if possible. We do apologize but we will not permit, authorize or accept "ANY" requests for shipment list priority placement, early shipments for special circumstances, waiting vehicles etc. Units will be shipped to our dealers in a fair and unilateral processed release of this wonderful product. 

Due to the popular worldwide demand and extremely high anticipation of this product we are placing ordering limits on the first production run of the PS8 to assure that current active "Authorized" dealers have an equal opportunity to partake in this initial production run with dedicated/limited quantities for their territories. Our first production order quantity is moderate as to ensure that there were no unforeseen issues related to the production process. However we are already taking steps and action to follow this first order as quickly as possibly with a very large stocking order to be completed as soon as possible to minimize any inventory stocking delays between orders.

The initial price offering for the PS8 is $899.00 USA MSRP. Please be advised that until further notice there is no sponsorships, accommodation pricing etc. The PS8 will not be listed on ARC Audio's Shop-A-Tron Authorized retail purchase program until after the completion of the second production run allowing for stocking quantities to be allocated and received in our US dealers for US sales in non represented territories. 

We will begin to accept pre-orders exclusively from "Active Authorized USA Brick and Mortar Store Front Dealers/Retailers and International Distributors Only in good standing" on a first come first serve basis for the PS8 until the first production is accounted for starting on Tuesday September 4th 2012 PST. At this time we will not be able to accept or accommodate any individual international or domestic product purchase requests for territories that do not have current representation. We do apologize but once they are gone they are gone until the completion of our next production run of which we will inform you of the estimated completion date as soon as possible.

If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact us anytime.


----------



## BowDown

Interesting. I wonder if this is on track or not?


----------



## BigRed

from what i understand, yes!


----------



## ErinH

^ ditto.


----------



## Sulley

Anybody seen or know of a trial/demo version of the PS8 software? I'd like to play around with it first. 


Sent from my Motorola StarTAC


----------



## redgst97

Software is not available yet in a demo version. My understanding is that it wil not be released prior to the actual unit shipping...so, no early release of the software. I could easily be wrong on that part, but that is what I am hearing.

Belive me though....the software if pretty darn easy to use and navigate around.


----------



## ErinH

Indeed. I've gotten a chance to play with it and I really like it a lot. Very intuitive and oddly, the color scheme employed helps making tuning more efficient.


----------



## Syracuse Customs

It's coming, east coast dealers that pre-ordered should see it 1st-2nd week of October. Got mine coming. Dealers are allotted only 5 units on the 1st wave so get out to your local dealer and pre-order it now ! $899.99 

MADE IN THE USA every unit gets QC'd at ARC !


----------



## Ianaconi

We had the chance in Brazil to actually install a PS8 prototype, and the product is amazing.

The sound quality is great. We had much better result, compared to competitor processors.


----------



## oilman

It looks big. What are the dimension?


----------



## pyropoptrt

Length - 9 7/8"
Width- 5 3/16"
Height- 1 1/4"

Taken from: ARC Audio Community Forums

Smaller than a h701.


----------



## beef316

That pic is deceiving. It is small in person.

Tapatalk owns my productivity.


----------



## art1618

I've been waiting for its release but this was quite a while ago, but what i don't remember is why i was waiting for it lol. Can someone tell me the upside of the ps8 over ms8 and bit one?


----------



## subwoofery

oilman said:


> It looks big. What are the dimension?


It's not a 15" sub  :laugh: Kiddin'  

Kelvin


----------



## oilman

subwoofery said:


> It's not a 15" sub  :laugh: Kiddin'
> 
> Kelvin


Lol, I was comparing to the hand/arm amps and thinking those were 2300's. 

Thanks for the dimensions. I'm like a kid waiting on Xmas day.


----------



## nerofive4

art1618 said:


> I've been waiting for its release but this was quite a while ago, but what i don't remember is why i was waiting for it lol. Can someone tell me the upside of the ps8 over ms8 and bit one?


+1 too


----------



## beerdrnkr

In actually more interested in the differences between the 3sixty.3 and ps-8. IIRC both cab flatten out a stock stereo but do either of them do autotune or can either of them incorporate a center channel? 

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## highspeed

I'm wondering about the comparison between the Zapco DSP-Z8 and the ARC PS8. I'm sure the PS8 will have more features but which one sounds better?


----------



## robert_wrath

highspeed said:


> I'm wondering about the comparison between the Zapco DSP-Z8 and the ARC PS8. I'm sure the PS8 will have more features but which one sounds better?


Value per dollar, likely the Zapco DSP-Z8.


----------



## highspeed

robert_wrath said:


> Value per dollar, likely the Zapco DSP-Z8.


Maybe, but cost might not be the issue. The ARC clearly costs more but that doesn't always translate to higher performance.


----------



## stickpony

robert_wrath said:


> Value per dollar, likely the Zapco DSP-Z8.



true... does anybody know if the DSP-Z8 has a center channel OUT? in other words, can it take the stereo input and create a center channel output ?


----------



## ErinH

Not sure about the zapco. 

I do know the arc will allow you a whole lot of possibilities depending on how you use the input/output mixer.


----------



## robert_wrath

BikinPunk, I take it you attended KnowledgeFest this year? What features truly stand out on the PS8 & what's the actual street price?


----------



## invictuz

BowDown said:


> Interesting. I wonder if this is on track or not?


i pre-ordered so you know i called 1st thing this morning to see if the week of meant monday  

I was told they anticipate shipping out in the middle of the week.


----------



## Syracuse Customs

I cannot think of any processor in car home and maybe even pro that does what this can do did you guys catch the 1 to 1 bluetooth conversion no loss


----------



## bbfoto

pyropoptrt said:


> Length - 9 7/8"
> Width- 5 3/16"
> Height- 1 1/4"



Anybody know how thick it is (Height) with the brushed aluminum cover removed?


----------



## invictuz

Syracuse Customs said:


> I cannot think of any processor in car home and maybe even pro that does what this can do did you guys catch the 1 to 1 bluetooth conversion no loss


It does not come with blue tooth internal correct?
Thought i read that would be an addon later.


----------



## invictuz

bhugtaan said:


> i looks interesting and amazing what is the exact price of it. Is this product launched in Indian market or not.


The price is $900 US ...dont think its international yet.


----------



## oilman

http://www.arcaudio.com/pdfs/reviews/product-reviews/ps8-rev.pdf


----------



## req

i am interested...


----------



## oca123

I have one reserved for me by my dealer, and as soon as he receives it I will go pick it up, but to be honest, I'm not even sure I can use it, because my sources are all line outputs.
I know there are some I/Os so you can hook up your own switches to change profiles, etc. but what about volume control? Is that going to be dependent on the remote, which will not be released for a while?

AFAIK bluetooth is in there already, this is not like the Mosconi. I guess that means you could use an iphone to stream to the PS8 and that would allow volume control. I did not see which protocol it uses for bluetooth audio, I hope the one that's lossless!
EDIT: it is an expansion module, not standard... mea culpa.


----------



## Syracuse Customs

invictuz said:


> It does not come with blue tooth internal correct?
> Thought i read that would be an addon later.


Yes the bluetooth module is an add on


----------



## oca123

oops my bad, bluetooth is not std, it is an expansion module, thx for correction


----------



## Syracuse Customs

req said:


> i am interested...


You should be the control is limitless with this piece I mean the best sounding vehicle in the US use this piece


----------



## bbfoto

In order to use the Bluetooth features and/or the Digital Inputs, you must also have the optional "PSC" remote controller/display. It will be your volume control when using the digital inputs. The "PSC" looks very much like the "DRC" that the Audison BitOne.1 uses.

There is a lot of great information in the Review PDF that was linked to by _oilman_ in post #30 of this thread.

The PDF Review has photos showing the PS8 with and without the brushed aluminum cover, so I'm wondering if anybody knows how thick or the actual height of the unit WITHOUT this cover on? Judging by the RCA's and other connectors it looks to be very close to 1" thick, which would be perfect for my particular install. 

I don't believe that the lossless high-speed Bluetooth APT-X protocol is available in the Bluetooth accessory that Arc Audio will be offering (unless they update this unit). I believe that APT-X it is not implemented until you get to Bluetooth version 4.0, though I could be mistaken. 

From the RF Twitter page, the RF rep said that the 3Sixty.3 Bluetooth dongle has SBC codec enabled and the Dongle supports APT-X, but it is not enabled b/c there are so few devices that currently support it...just the Samsung Galaxy SIII and a handfull of others at this point. There is a 3rd Party Bluetooth Dongle for iPod/iPhone that supports APT-X however. See:

iPod + Chordette Carry Case with B&W SCM 805 Alpha Beat - Fascination - YouTube

Here is a Link with more information on Bluetooth APT-X and a List of current Devices that have it:

Galaxy S III just the latest with apt-X Bluetooth audio - SlashGear

And here is another DIYMA post with Links to more Bluetooth APT-X info:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...atest-gen-smartphones-no-more-hard-wires.html

The text below is quoted directly from the PS8 Review:

"*Bluetooth expansion module (Optional Accessory)*
​​​​​​The PS8 has advanced Bluetooth communications provisions offering a wide variety of additional
source and *possible future control applications* for the PS8. The PS8BTM expansion
module* (sold separately)* allows users to stream audio from portable MP3 players or media storage
devices into the PS8; and, use the PS8 and media devices as sources (optional PS8 control
station required). *The PS8BTM expansion module is Bluetooth 2.1 compliant* and is a CE, IC and
FCC qualified registered product. It has a range of up to 30 meters (depending on application
and installation of the PS8 unit) and can support up to 14 simultaneous Bluetooth profiles.
All of this wireless voodoo magic works via an on-board proprietary integrated antenna."​


----------



## oca123

arg, the wait is killing me.
hey, bbfoto, and anyone else from socal, wanna come play with my ps8 when i pick it up?


----------



## Mic10is

I played with the software some when I was in Redding for IASCA Finals.
It does an incredible amount. easy to use. there will be a learning curve to figure out what does what especially configuring inputs and outputs.

I would venture to say that this does way more than majority of people will have any idea what to do with.

But considering it can do summed mono, or L-R and a host of other things...its def a cool piece.


----------



## oca123

I'm glad to read it does L-R, I was wondering about that. I figured it did based on what's available on their website.


----------



## bbfoto

oca123 said:


> arg, the wait is killing me.
> hey, bbfoto, and anyone else from socal, wanna come play with my ps8 when i pick it up?


oca, I'd love to check the PS8 out in person so give me a shout when you receive it...thanks for the offer. Were you able to order the PSC remote controller and/or Bluetooth Module?

Mic, I agree...it looks like it will be able to do a lot more than most people here really need, myself included. But Robert, Fred, and the team have really thought this unit through from top to bottom and have implemented some VERY useful features besides the awesome configurable input/output functionality and the typical DSP functions.

The programmable amplifier turn on/off delay is one such feature. And having 2 Digital Inputs (both Coaxial and Toslink) is very nice, along with the Aux "NAV voice" input. It truly looks to be the ultimate DSP _AND_ OEM integration unit. No Auto-Tune but that's something I personally don't care about.

The way it handles the software/firmware without crashing/freezing/losing presets is huge IMO (if it really works). This has been a major problem with nearly all other processors.

I just really do hope that they can come up with both iOS and Android tablet apps to allow full tuning & control, and either WiFi Direct or Bluetooth ATPX lossless streaming. Then I can truly say "TAKE MY MONEY!!!" without hesitation, LOL.


----------



## oca123

Hey bbfoto,

The bluetooth module and PSC controller have not been released yet. I will PM you when I get the PS8. I hope that happens before Friday.
Every processor I've tried was lacking. The only exception was my CarPC, but the setup was just too clunky.
I wonder if the PS8 will be "hackable" - one thing it doesn't do that I am interested in, is FIR filters. If it were able to convolve long tap FIR filters on each one of its channels, it would be the perfect processor, oh boy.





bbfoto said:


> oca, I'd love to check the PS8 out in person so give me a shout when you receive it...thanks for the offer. Were you able to order the PSC remote controller and/or Bluetooth Module?
> 
> Mic, I agree...it looks like it will be able to do a lot more than most people here really need, myself included. But Robert, Fred, and the team have really thought this unit through from top to bottom and have implemented some VERY useful features besides the awesome configurable input/output functionality and the typical DSP functions.
> 
> The programmable amplifier turn on/off delay is one such feature. And having 2 Digital Inputs (both Coaxial and Toslink) is very nice, along with the Aux "NAV voice" input. It truly looks to be the ultimate DSP _AND_ OEM integration unit. No Auto-Tune but that's something I personally don't care about.
> 
> The way it handles the software/firmware without crashing/freezing/losing presets is huge IMO (if it really works). This has been a major problem with nearly all other processors.
> 
> I just really do hope that they can come up with both iOS and Android tablet apps to allow full tuning & control, and either WiFi Direct or Bluetooth ATPX lossless streaming. Then I can truly say "TAKE MY MONEY!!!" without hesitation, LOL.


----------



## bbfoto

oca123,

Did Arc or your dealer give you an ETA for the BTM and PSC?

I haven't registered on the Arc Audio Forums...just too many to follow already, lol.


----------



## oca123

no, my dealer almost missed the preorder date too. arc has not announced a date for these yet .


----------



## bbfoto

oca123 said:


> no, my dealer almost missed the preorder date too. arc has not announced a date for these yet .


Thanks. That's my pet peeve with a lot these companies...even Apple (the dock/charging adapter is not yet available for the new iPhone 5, and then it will cost you $30 for a 50¢ part that should have been included with the phone, especially for people who are upgrading from a previous iPhone).

If you're going to announce and release a product, the add-on's or accessories should be available immediately, or at least announce a solid release date, and price. And AFAIK, Arc hasn't officially announced prices for the PSC or BTM, so you really are left wondering what your total cost will be for a "fully functioning" unit.

I think it's Arc's way of "lowering the cost of entry". $1,100 or more up front would be prohibitive for a lot of people, and many would choose less expensive options. But $899 doesn't sound quite as bad. Then later you realize that you need the "accessories" in order to use the basic features that you want, and you end up having to spend that extra $200-$300 that you didn't budget for. Smart marketing for sure, but not too consumer-friendly.

IMO, the PSC should be included with the PS8. It's just not complete without it. Otherwise, how do you select your input source or choose a different preset on-the-fly, or use the digital inputs without having a computer plugged into the USB all of the time? To me, these are basic functions. I can maybe understand the BTM being optional, but then again, IIUC you need the PSC in order to use the BTM, so...argh!

I have to give RF props. They included the remote and Bluetooth module in every box with the 3Sixty.3 for $599 MSRP, and you can get them for just over $400 if you search. RF didn't release the processor without them...so there aren't any BS add-on's or extra cost to worry about. 

Yes, the PS8 is a much more powerful unit, but IMO its ease of use and functionality are severely limited without the PSC. That's my .02, and you guys know that I _always_ have an opinion, LOL.


----------



## oca123

Yeah... you know, I've been waiting for the PS8 for a long time now... long enough that I dubbed it "Houdini" because of the multiple release dates that were announced and then not met.
I think with the release of all of these new processors (mosconi, etc.,) time was of the essence and they decided to release the PS8 even though the controller is not ready. Maybe seeing that the 6to8 followed this model and pulled it off had an influence on that decision.
That said, I agree that it is *unacceptable* on their part not to release pricing on these accessories. I hope that this is not due to the fact that they haven't figured out their cost on these, because that would mean that we could be waiting a long time.

The remote is not required. There is an I/O section that lets you hook up your own custom on/off switches to switch between profiles, etc.
I don't think that it is setup for a custom volume control knob though... but I don't know that for sure.

The RF is not the only one that came with the remote. The BitOne also did. I think the reason why ARC and Mosconi decided to make the remote optional is because the primary buyers of their products are installers and in many cases the processors are hidden away and the remotes are not used. Not including them means that to the installer, the offering is the same since the remote was not going to be used to begin with, but the profit margin increases for the mfg......

Anyway, keeping my fingers crossed that ARC is really shipping them out this week, and that I will get mine before Friday.


----------



## oca123

bbfoto said:


> Yes, the PS8 is a much more powerful unit, but IMO its ease of use and functionality are severely limited without the PSC. My .02


I think that's because it's really meant for installers to use as a black box. That said, I have a tablet PC running Windows 7 and it's pretty quick, so the only things I would use the PSC for is volume control, and changing xover settings and tuning while driving (which I do all the time with my H800.... find me on the 405... i'm the guy who jumps from the fast lane all the way to the right, then slows down to 55mph and starts changing xover points)


----------



## bbfoto

oca123 said:


> Yeah... you know, I've been waiting for the PS8 for a long time now... long enough that I dubbed it "Houdini" because of the multiple release dates that were announced and then not met.
> I think with the release of all of these new processors (mosconi, etc.,) time was of the essence and they decided to release the PS8 even though the controller is not ready. Maybe seeing that the 6to8 followed this model and pulled it off had an influence on that decision.
> That said, I agree that it is *unacceptable* on their part not to release pricing on these accessories. I hope that this is not due to the fact that they haven't figured out their cost on these, because that would mean that we could be waiting a long time.
> 
> The remote is not required. There is an I/O section that lets you hook up your own custom on/off switches to switch between profiles, etc.
> I don't think that it is setup for a custom volume control knob though... but I don't know that for sure.
> 
> The RF is not the only one that came with the remote. The BitOne also did. I think the reason why ARC and Mosconi decided to make the remote optional is because the primary buyers of their products are installers and in many cases the processors are hidden away and the remotes are not used. Not including them means that to the installer, the offering is the same since the remote was not going to be used to begin with, but the profit margin increases for the mfg......
> 
> Anyway, keeping my fingers crossed that ARC is really shipping them out this week, and that I will get mine before Friday.


Thanks for all of the great information. Good stuff there. Yeah, I overlooked the fact that the BitOne came with the DRC (seems like it would be almost useless without it), and the set-and-forget "black box" setup as well. Hope you get the PS8 soon!


----------



## bbfoto

oca123 said:


> I think that's because it's really meant for installers to use as a black box. That said, I have a tablet PC running Windows 7 and it's pretty quick, so the only things I would use the PSC for is volume control, and changing xover settings and tuning while driving (which I do all the time with my H800.... find me on the 405... i'm the guy who jumps from the fast lane all the way to the right, then slows down to 55mph and starts changing xover points)


I would definitely want the PSC as I would be using the Digital Inputs almost exclusively, so I'd have a physical knob volume control, and quick and easy switching between presets for driving and static, engine-off SQ modes, or for an overall setting when I have family or friends in the car.

LOL, you'd be hard to miss in the Blue Beast, haha. But please, don't risk your life or others by TWD (Texting or Tuning While Driving)!


----------



## Candisa

Ball missed for me:
- 8 outputs (want 12 for 3-ways front + 2-ways center + ambient rear-fill + sub)
- maximum of 10ms delay (too little for ambient rear-fill)

It might be me, but all I'm seeing is just another DSP...

Doesn't really make the "no engineer set tuning restrictions"-claim true if you ask me...

Isabelle


----------



## Neil_J

Candisa said:


> Ball missed for me:
> - 8 outputs (want 12 for 3-ways front + 2-ways center + ambient rear-fill + sub)
> - maximum of 10ms delay (too little for ambient rear-fill)
> 
> It might be me, but all I'm seeing is just another DSP...
> 
> Doesn't really make the "no engineer set tuning restrictions"-claim true if you ask me...


Here here, I also would love access to 12 channels, my goal is a very similar setup to what you mentioned. I have heard you can string multiple PS8's together, but even so, it jas no true center channel extraction or Dolby/L7-esq surround decoding (which has been my unicorn for some time, thanks to the MS-8 hype). Lota of cars already offer this setup, so for these owners, they would be downgrading. I'd absolutely love for them to add a capability to do simple arithmetic and trig calculations between left and right channels to extract center and out of phase stuff. Left minus right ain't going to cut it, it's just a bit more involved than that.. Pity it's so rarely supported.

I'm just another vocal minority, I guess


----------



## ErinH

The input and output mixer allow you to do a lot. Beyond simple center extraction and rear fill, depending on how much thought you put in to it.


----------



## Neil_J

bikinpunk said:


> The input and output mixer allow you to do a lot. Beyond simple center extraction and rear fill, depending on how much thought you put in to it.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but -- you need an active matrix to fully extract the center channel, with no trace of the left-only or right-only information (or a passive matrix if you're okay with 3 dB of separation)... Same thing for out-of phase information that gets steered to the back. This is what Dolby Pro Logic and Logic7 do. You can't do that with just a mixer. If so, please show me how.


----------



## Insane01VWPassat

Neil_J said:


> Here here, I also would love access to 12 channels, my goal is a very similar setup to what you mentioned. I have heard you can string multiple PS8's together, but even so, it jas no true center channel extraction or Dolby/L7-esq surround decoding (which has been my unicorn for some time, thanks to the MS-8 hype). Lota of cars already offer this setup, so for these owners, they would be downgrading. I'd absolutely love for them to add a capability to do simple arithmetic and trig calculations between left and right channels to extract center and out of phase stuff. Left minus right ain't going to cut it, it's just a bit more involved than that.. Pity it's so rarely supported.
> 
> I'm just another vocal minority, I guess


The PS8 as it sits cannot be linked to other PS8's but there is provisions for other cool accessories to come in the future that may not be desired by all users for their audio system applications and allow for greater flexibility and larger systems in specific applications.


----------



## ErinH

Neil_J said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but -- you need an active matrix to fully extract the center channel, with no trace of the left-only or right-only information (or a passive matrix if you're okay with 3 dB of separation)... Same thing for out-of phase information that gets steered to the back. This is what Dolby Pro Logic and Logic7 do. You can't do that with just a mixer. If so, please show me how.


Honestly, Neil, I can't say for sure because I haven't really gone through the effort of learning how a center is "made". But, from my understanding, one has full control over the input and output channels via a mixer section and I would imagine you could do just about whatever you wanted. I would think you could mix a center channel from separate L/R inputs on one of your output channels. But, again, not being even remotely familiar with the architecture of L7, I'm speaking speculatively.

I do know that L-R is possible and I've seen crazy talk of other ideas out there from the engineering side of things regarding DSP's with input/output mixer control, which is why I'm personally interested in trying out a PS8. 

Sorry if I jumped the gun regarding your specific instance of center channel steering.


----------



## Neil_J

No worries, I just wanted to point out that center extraction is more than just L+R or L-R. You can verify this in Matlab or even Excel by creating three sinewave frequencies, one for each channel, and one shared with both; if you try to "extract" the center channel, you'll only end up with 3dB isolation, best-case. True center extraction requires an active matrix decoder (the active part meaning that you can't just multiply by a coefficient or simply add/subtract). They're not exactly CPU intensive, but are protected by various patents, which IMO discourages companies like Arc from ever going down that road. It's likely not a big deal that the PS8 doesn't support it, I guess, since only a few people (myself included) really care about it.


----------



## Candisa

Anybody knows how the AudioControl ESP-3 does it's thing? 
That's what I'll be using to extract center-information from the fronts and send it to the center-speaker (would be ridiculous to send it to something else, wouldn't it? ) if I decide to take that route...

Isabelle


----------



## oca123

True, it seems ARC decided to go the completely independent route and I do not see any indication of them paying any licensing fees to get things like Logic 7 or other surround technologies implemented.
It's like a mix of a processor designed only for stereo (e.g. BitOne) but with the ability to do multi-channel with rear fill, sides, etc.
I looked at the PASMag review and zoomed in on the pictures showing the mixer interface, etc. and there definitely is no active matrix.
However this is version 1 and I know Arc is very responsive, and also being a smaller company I think we will have more of a chance to get suggestions implemented and released as updates than with Alpine, JBL et al.
Neil, have you tried shooting an email over to Fred Lynch? Arc Audio also has a forum for the PS8, which requires new users to go through a manual verification process. this is a double edged sword, but its benefit is that there aren't too many people posting dumb sh.t on their forums, so it is easy to get attention from their team. Do you think you could sign up on there and ask about center channel extraction the way you want to see it done?

I guess the mixer would always allow what Candisa is suggesting, which is splitting the signal before the processor and using 3 inputs.


----------



## oca123

Neil_J said:


> It's likely not a big deal that the PS8 doesn't support it, I guess, since only a few people (myself included) really care about it.


Actually, the PS8's software has an "expert" mode which is pretty involved as it is. I believe the feature you are requesting is more or less in line with what Arc Audio intended for this product, which is to fill the needs of the most demanding SQ nuts. I don't know much about how an active matrix works.
Would it be possible for ARC to have a scripting language which would allow a user to "code in" a center channel extraction the way you see it?
This way ARC is not breaking any laws by using an algorithm that has been patented.... the user is, and no one will go after the user. Make sense?


----------



## Neil_J

I'm going to talk to Steve Head today at the Orlando meet, to inquire about if Arc is interested in adding the center extraction. It's worth a shot asking, I suppose.


----------



## thehatedguy

And werewolf/lycan has mentioned how it works a couple of times.

I would point you to the manual, but it is $11 to download/buy.



Candisa said:


> Anybody knows how the AudioControl ESP-3 does it's thing?
> That's what I'll be using to extract center-information from the fronts and send it to the center-speaker (would be ridiculous to send it to something else, wouldn't it? ) if I decide to take that route...
> 
> Isabelle


----------



## Insane01VWPassat

Neil_J said:


> I'm going to talk to Steve Head today at the Orlando meet, to inquire about if Arc is interested in adding the center extraction. It's worth a shot asking, I suppose.


As Steve head is not employed by ARC why would this question be given to him? Just curious as he is just a member of our competition team?


----------



## Neil_J

Insane01VWPassat said:


> As Steve head is not employed by ARC why would this question be given to him? Just curious as he is just a member of our competition team?


Because he was sitting in my car a few minutes ago, convenience I guess. I'm sure he could bring it up to the right person. Was going to ask, but he had to leave early. Probably a shot in the dark anyway.. Still not sure anyone at Arc will be receptive to it.


----------



## ErinH

Lol. Neil, why not just send a PM or ask the guy that just replied to you. He is the project manager/lead engineer of the ps8 after all. I think he was hinting at that.


----------



## Neil_J

bikinpunk said:


> Lol. Neil, why not just send a PM or ask the guy that just replied to you. He is the project manager/lead engineer of the ps8 after all. I think he was hinting at that.


Ahh, I will do that, thanks for the heads up.


----------



## oca123

> Lol. Neil, why not just send a PM or ask the guy that just replied to you. He is the project manager/lead engineer of the ps8 after all. I think he was hinting at that.





Neil_J said:


> Ahh, I will do that, thanks for the heads up.


Well, then he is aware of the request, so why does this exchange have to be private?

I was aware that a mixer is not enough to do proper center channel extraction. I will do some reading on how it is done the proper way. Neil, got any links?

[off topic] My issue is that doing a center channel in my car is a bit involved and could damage the dashboard, etc. - and the cost to repair what I could break is in the tens of thousands. [ / off topic]

EDIT: I think it's actually best if the exchange is done in private... I understand that if Insane01VWPassat starts answering questions about the PS8 here directly he will get bombarded with requests and people will start expecting him to be like Andy.


----------



## Insane01VWPassat

bikinpunk said:


> Lol. Neil, why not just send a PM or ask the guy that just replied to you. He is the project manager/lead engineer of the ps8 after all. I think he was hinting at that.


Just to clarify so there is no misled representations, Robert Zeff is the lead engineer, I am the project manager and have had very heavy involvement in a lot of areas in making the processor what it has become. In the end it took a team of people to make this happen.


----------



## ErinH

I'm not trying I answer for you anymore. Glad you're here. Lol.


----------



## Insane01VWPassat

oca123 said:


> EDIT: I think it's actually best if the exchange is done in private... I understand that if Insane01VWPassat starts answering questions about the PS8 here directly he will get bombarded with requests and people will start expecting him to be like Andy.


Well said and thank you


----------



## audionutz

Yeah Fred, dont turn into Andy LOL!


----------



## Insane01VWPassat

bikinpunk said:


> I'm not trying I answer for you anymore. Glad you're here. Lol.


No no your doing fine please continue. . 

This way I'm not the punching bag


----------



## Insane01VWPassat

audionutz said:


> Yeah Fred, dont turn into Andy LOL!


No worries. I can't I'm not skinny enough.


----------



## Neil_J

oca123 said:


> ... center channel extraction. I will do some reading on how it is done the proper way. Neil, got any links?


At risk of fully derailing this thread, I've PM'd you a good technical paper, and won't say anything further here


----------



## ErinH

Insane01VWPassat said:


> This way I'm not the punching bag


Everyone needs a scapegoat. Or a sheep. (I should get thumbsup for that pun)


----------



## ISTundra

Any updates on shipping? The projected 9/23 ship date came and went and my dealer doesn't know anything.


----------



## ErinH

Did your dealer pre order or do you mean he just doesn't know when his orders are coming?


----------



## ISTundra

He pre-ordered. The latest response he received was that Arc was trying to stagger shipments so everyone receives orders at roughly the same time. Still doesn't answer the question if any have actually shipped yet.


----------



## falstaff

Yeah kinda feel like a mushroom here.


----------



## ErinH

Makes sense. By stagger, I'm assuming they're shipping to the East Coast first and the West later so they all arrive around the same time. If this is the case, then you'd expect Florida to be about 5 days ahead of California. (I'm in Alabama and it takes about 5 days to ship to Cali)

Now all you need to do is find out if/when someone who ordered one in Florida has shipping info and subtract a day or two for you. Easier said than done, I know.


----------



## andrew2944r

I am in Texas and mine is not in. From Arc Audio FB


Arc Audio: If you note clearly shipping was to "begin the week of the 23rd". Which the week of the 23rd allowerd for first units to begin to ship from Monday the 24th thru Friday the 28th. This has in fact begun and have started to release units into the worldwide market.

This will be steady and controlled pace to fill all of the orders worldwide and to keep things smooth we are taking into consideration the transit times and more to orchestrate this release.

Please note that it may take some time for all dealers and international distributors to receive their orders pending on when we release their specific orders to them as they are not all being released simultaneously .


----------



## oca123

I was told they only shipped 10 of them last week. I am in southern california, and was told they would ship in the middle of this week.

If they are staggering shipments so everyone gets them at the same time, that means you should receive yours by the end of the week.


----------



## Insane01VWPassat

If you want to play with the PS8 Software while you are awaiting for units to arrive at your local retailers well here you go-

http://arcaudio.com/downloads/ps8_setup.zip


Download the file.
Unzip the folder
Drag "all" files in the folder to your destop
Click on the blue "Set Up" button

From there is all automated. You can delete all of the files you put on your desktop after installation is complete!


Please note that when not hooked up to a PS8 some functions are not active in offline mode and they require communication between the PC and the PS8. This software is NOT compatiable with MAC's in Windows mode and can only be used on Windows based PC's.

Be sure to follow the above instructions and copy ALL files to the desktop from the zip folder as it has all of the drivers etc that you will need to make the software work with your PS8. We are going to do additional revisions that will allow this process to be more simplified inthe future.

Enjoy!


----------



## bbfoto

Thanks for posting the software, Fred.


----------



## robert_wrath

I love the GUI layout. Thou intricate yet simple No Brain-er type setup.


----------



## invictuz

ISTundra said:


> Any updates on shipping? The projected 9/23 ship date came and went and my dealer doesn't know anything.


I have been in regular communication with my local dealer in Seattle @ Stereo Wharehouse.

When i call him, he calls Arc.

The last two times he provided an update that they are slowly shipping them out as each one is hand QCd.
This could mean another week or three before i get my hands on it.

Antiicapating the arrival a bit prematurely i

stripped everything out of my car down to metal
added a three layer sound management solution
rewired true three way to the doors
upgraded alternator
added 2nd yellow top
ran two 0 gauge from front to rear
Removed all the AudioControl gear

Now my car reminds me a kid missing one of his front teeth...smiling but gapped.

Since it appears this may still be weeks out i might reinstall the audio control as a temporary solution. 


let me try and post that again without the database error from DIY


----------



## oca123

invictuz said:


> Since it appears this may still be weeks out i might reinstall the audio control as a temporary solution.


Who said it was weeks out?

You're not the only one, dude. I rebuilt my amp rack and made a cutout complete with edgelit lexan, etc. and full trunk cover, solely based on the dimensions quoted earlier on in this thread. Even if this thing comes out, if it's any smaller than the dimensions given here, I am screwed....


----------



## invictuz

oca123 said:


> Who said it was weeks out?
> 
> You're not the only one, dude. I rebuilt my amp rack and made a cutout complete with edgelit lexan, etc. and full trunk cover, solely based on the dimensions quoted earlier on in this thread. Even if this thing comes out, if it's any smaller than the dimensions given here, I am screwed....




The "weeks out" is a questimate based on:

Indications that there were a fair number of pre-orders
They are hand checking each one before sending
Arc is a small company

So hand checking a larger order by a small complany is where i came to "weeks".
That and the dealer seems to think it could be awhile as well.

No one has indicated its going to take weeks nor thats its already been sent...


----------



## oca123

Yeah, no news here either. I might put the BitOne in, since its roughly the same size, in the meanwhile...


----------



## ISTundra

Re-post from Arc forums..

Yes, they are shipping! 
As there is always some question to a new release please rest assured we are shipping PS8's and moving them out the door as fast as possible. We are taking extra steps and doing 100% full QC checks on every single unit to assure that your first experience with the PS8 is as impressive as the technology itself.

Here is just a "small" few of the many that have gone out for orders earlier this week and there has been shipments daily. Please remember we are shipping worldwide and trying to take care of everybody so this will take a little bit of time. 

(A pic of boxed PS8's was also shown)
ARC Audio Community Forums


----------



## redgst97

worth the wait....


----------



## invictuz

redgst97 said:


> worth the wait....



i dont know...i have been without sound for 3 weeks now (i know; i shouldnt have yanked my previous gear out until i had the new gear in hand...it did allow me to complete a couple audio related upgrades with having everything out).

I am considering switching my attention to the new Masconi, those are available now.
Or giving the Bit One another look.

I will wait until the end of the week...this weekend i am installing something.


----------



## ISTundra

PS8 is in! No documentation in the box other than a few advisory cards and a link to the software download page. USB and a 6-channel speaker level to RCA convertors cables included.


----------



## robert_wrath

Now that's sexy!


----------



## oca123

ISTundra said:


> PS8 is in! No documentation in the box other than a few advisory cards and a link to the software download page. USB and a 6-channel speaker level to RCA convertors cables included.


Do you think you could measure it length, width, height, and the depth of the connector bay? cm/mm or inches, doesnt matter.


----------



## ISTundra

250mm x 130mm x 35mm (9-7/8 x 5-1/8 x 1-3/8 for the metrically challenged)

the connectors are tucked under the top plate approx. 10-11mm (7/16") on each side.


----------



## oca123

Thanks, I drew it on cardboard with little tabs for glue, and made a cardboard version for now. doesnt look as nice, doesnt sound as nice, but it lessens the pain as I wait for mine


----------



## andrew2944r

Still waiting for mine as well. Maybe show up in the next day or so!


----------



## oilman

oca123 said:


> Thanks, I drew it on cardboard with little tabs for glue, and made a cardboard version for now. doesnt look as nice, doesnt sound as nice, but it lessens the pain as I wait for mine


I did the same thing but made mine out of MDF.


----------



## bbfoto

ISTundra said:


> PS8 is in! No documentation in the box other than a few advisory cards and a link to the software download page. USB and a 6-channel speaker level to RCA convertors cables included.





ISTundra said:


> 250mm x 130mm x 35mm (9-7/8 x 5-1/8 x 1-3/8 for the metrically challenged)
> 
> the connectors are tucked under the top plate approx. 10-11mm (7/16") on each side.


Awesome...Congrats! 

How thick is the brushed aluminum top cover?


----------



## ErinH

I get a solid 8.5v out before clipping at 0dB.

This thing is pretty legit. And the GUI is awesome. I'm finding things that work like I'd want them to, even though I wouldn't expect it. For instance, I set up all crossovers at default settings for driver protection. I then wanted to open them all up to measure the output before clipping. I switched to all pass. At this point I figure when I go back to the appropriate crossover structure ill have to reconfigure them since i switched them all to all pass. But it remembered my low/high/band pass settings on respective channels. That's not earth shattering, but it does hint at someone actually using this stuff and thinking its be nice to have that little pseudo-feature.


----------



## BigAl205

LOL...You have an SMD meter?

I can't wait to see that PS8 in person.


----------



## ErinH

It's a loaner. Actually, it's a nice product.


----------



## pyropoptrt

So, Erin, you keeping the ps8 in the car for finals or will you just run the p99?


----------



## ErinH

No idea yet. Time will tell.


----------



## thehatedguy

Can it do phase adjustments?


----------



## pyropoptrt

Jason, the PS8 doesn't do variable phase (which is what I'm assuming you're asking for). It will do 180° phase flip.


----------



## thehatedguy

That's cool...I still want one though.


----------



## andrew2944r

Still waiting on mine = (


----------



## falstaff

Any updates on shipping? When do you think the shipments to Florida are going to arrive? Alabama and Arizona looks like they've received theirs.


----------



## oca123

Still nothing and I'm in California


----------



## oca123

oilman said:


> I did the same thing but made mine out of MDF.


Shiaaat, ARC better watch out, knock offs are already out there!


----------



## Syracuse Customs

Got ours yesterday and installed Night and day from the Helix P-DSP.


----------



## invictuz

Syracuse Customs said:


> Got ours yesterday and installed Night and day from the Helix P-DSP.


nice!

I am considering the Bit One since its taken langer than anticipated...i cant be without sound much longer.


----------



## Syracuse Customs

invictuz said:


> nice!
> 
> I am considering the Bit One since its taken langer than anticipated...i cant be without sound much longer.


The production is slow cause they want it to be perfect when you get it. The BitOne is a decent piece but if you can wait I would highly recommend it. I had the BitOne installed prior to installing the P-dsp. Honestly the P-DSP was a step up in sound for me from the bitOne and the PS8 is a leap over the P-DSP.


----------



## invictuz

Syracuse Customs said:


> The production is slow cause they want it to be perfect when you get it. The BitOne is a decent piece but if you can wait I would highly recommend it. I had the BitOne installed prior to installing the P-dsp. Honestly the P-DSP was a step up in sound for me from the bitOne and the PS8 is a leap over the P-DSP.


good info.
Right after i posted this I called my local shop who called Arc.
The local shop guy is promising it will arrive next week.

Think i will just spend the couple hours reinstalling the AudioControl gear for now.


----------



## oca123

invictuz said:


> good info.
> Right after i posted this I called my local shop who called Arc.
> The local shop guy is promising it will arrive next week.
> 
> Think i will just spend the couple hours reinstalling the AudioControl gear for now.


still nothing here either


----------



## oca123

To those of you who have received the PS8, could you post here to let us know?

Also, does anyone have a copy of the manual? Is there even one?


----------



## quality_sound

oca123 said:


> To those of you who have received the PS8, could you post here to let us know?
> 
> Also, does anyone have a copy of the manual? Is there even one?


They have started arriving. I remember a couple of posts here about people getting them already. 
There is a manual. I'm not sure if it's on the site or not but the unit itself has one and it's quite extensive.


----------



## ErinH

No manual, Paul. Not with some. I think they were just trying to get them out and meet their own deadline rather than delay for a manual.


----------



## ISTundra

I didn't receive a manual with mine either. I assume one will be published at some point or added to the software pack.


----------



## quality_sound

Interesting. I know there is one, I proofread some of it for Fred and that was months ago. Weird that some don't have it. I'd ask Fred but he's either in China or Australia at the moment.


----------



## ErinH

Fred was the one who told me the first few (whether that was first batch or a set within that batch or multiple batches, i don't know) were going ahead of the manuals. 

I understand their reasoning. The folks this is getting to before manuals are out will not (most likely) need it.


----------



## oca123

bikinpunk said:


> Fred was the one who told me the first few (whether that was first batch or a set within that batch or multiple batches, i don't know) were going ahead of the manuals.
> 
> I understand their reasoning. The folks this is getting to before manuals are out will not (most likely) need it.


True... then there are folks like me, who would love to have the manual so they have something to read while they wait for their PS8....

Has anyone heard of a "queue" upon ordering? My dealer told me that he placed his order with his rep way ahead of the Sept 23rd pre-order date, and gave me a single digit, telling me it was our place in the "queue"...


----------



## quality_sound

There is a queue. The number of orders was way more than they had in the first batch. I'll talk to Fred and see if I can get a digital copy of the manual.


----------



## oca123

quality_sound said:


> There is a queue. The number of orders was way more than they had in the first batch. I'll talk to Fred and see if I can get a digital copy of the manual.


is #6 in the queue for california a good spot or does that mean it will not be within 1st batch?


----------



## quality_sound

No idea. I don't know how many were in the first batch but Fred told me they only took preorders for as many units were in the first batch so my previous info was incorrect. The delay is because they are testing each and every unit in the first order. So be patient, yours is coming.


----------



## oca123

quality_sound said:


> No idea. I don't know how many were in the first batch but Fred told me they only took preorders for as many units were in the first batch so my previous info was incorrect. The delay is because they are testing each and every unit in the first order. So be patient, yours is coming.


Actually, my dealer told me he didn't order with Arc directly, but through his rep? Not sure what that means, but he said he ordered the PS8 weeks before 9/23.
I decided to redo my trunk while patiently waiting for it... the space in front of the Leviathan is waiting to be cut out for the PS8.
Obviously there is still much to be done... perfect-fit beauty panels for the sides with edge-lit lexan and these PG amps boxed in right, still unsure on that black carbon fiber vinyl (it was scrap leftover I picked up from a shop a while back) as I wanted white instead....
Replace the subs with some AEs instead... countersink them better, use threaded inserts instead of t-nuts...
Oh and a proper floor, not some carpet just laid there on top  

There's enough stuff to do to keep me busy for many hours, and I have the time, but I don't really have the motivation to go any further until I get the processor.





















Also, I have the lexan piece that was left after cutting out the floor shape. It fits flush in the hole. I could carve out a skull or something, it would light up and it would be cool... but because it has to remain at least a little bit classy, maybe I'll carve something like this in:


----------



## quality_sound

It's possible the rep didn't place the order when he got it from the shop. I don't know why he'd wait on it but who knows.


----------



## andrew2944r

Still nothing here in Texas. = (


----------



## oca123

I was told it would be any day now, might have already shipped...


----------



## Niebur3

I was told mine shipped yesterday!!!!!!!


----------



## oca123

I'm getting mine today!


----------



## robert_wrath

oca123 said:


> I'm getting mine today!


Ya lucky bastard! :laugh: Good to hear, it's about time. I wanna see your install with forward progress.


----------



## oca123

OK, so I went to go pick it up yesterday, but there was a mixup with the shipping agent at my shop and so they received it today.
I have to say that it looks nice. It's not too large, and it's not too small to where it feels insignificant either.
The box contains the unit itself, some really cheap RCA cables to tap into a factory signal (very, very cheap cables, but then again, it's for factory signal) and a USB cable, which is too short (unless the unit is in your center console, get a long USB cord or a USB extension cord)

I installed the software on my Windows 7 tablet PC, hooked up the unit, and set up some crossover points. I then hooked up the RCA cables to my amps, and my signal source (Toslink optical) and... nothing. I looked for a way to switch to Optical/Digital input, found it under preferences. Source is off at this point.

I then synced settings to the PS8, turned on my source, and got sound for about 10 seconds, so I clicked "save settings" which prompted me to give the XML file containing my settings a name. I clicked "Save" and received a error with some debugging info which I ignored. At this point, the PS8 restarted, and I have not been able to get it to do anything since then.
It keeps restarting itself, and if I connect it via USB, I can see the status bar from the PS8 software going from "Connected" to "Not connected", then back to "Connected" while the unit itself blinks as it keep restarting every 2 seconds.

I unplugged the unit, tried again, and now I'm here. I saw mention of web-based support, where is the live chat, how do you get tech support from ARC?


----------



## quality_sound

Call Arc.


----------



## andrew2944r

At least you got yours. I am still patiently waiting...


----------



## oca123

quality_sound said:


> Call Arc.


I called once to ask for f/r graphs at 0 and 60 degrees for some tweeters I had, and spoke with someone very helpful who ended up giving me a lecture on amplification topologies. I never saved the phone number. Can you PM it over? I don't expect them to pick up the phone right now, so I guess I'll put the H800 back until Monday.


----------



## redgst97

Perhaps I might suggest posting something on the Arc Audio forums in the PS8 section.

I have not had any of the issues you list, but I am not running Win7. Not too sure if that has anything to do with it or not....


----------



## oca123

The unit is supposed to have a fail-safe to prevent getting bricked following a USB communication error.
I am definitely experiencing an issue with the firmware itself, as I have it sitting on my desk right now, not hooked up to anything but power, and it's still rebooting.
Hopefully there is a reset switch somewhere.

Out of curiosity, how did you secure it? There are no tabs, so I'm guessing I have to mount it from underneath the rack?


----------



## oca123

oca123 said:


> I never saved the phone number. Can you PM it over?


Nevermind, got it from the ARC forums


----------



## Victor_inox

sounds like a wonderful unit so far.


----------



## pyropoptrt

I know you're just testing it right now but how do you plan to control the volume without the controller? The mounting tabs are underneath the metal shroud which can be removed by removing the four screws holding the black center plexi piece. I believe there is a reset next to the arc logo on one of the sides, I may be wrong though.


----------



## ErinH

oca123 said:


> OK, so I went to go pick it up yesterday, but there was a mixup with the shipping agent at my shop and so they received it today.
> I have to say that it looks nice. It's not too large, and it's not too small to where it feels insignificant either.
> The box contains the unit itself, some really cheap RCA cables to tap into a factory signal (very, very cheap cables, but then again, it's for factory signal) and a USB cable, which is too short (unless the unit is in your center console, get a long USB cord or a USB extension cord)
> 
> I installed the software on my Windows 7 tablet PC, hooked up the unit, and set up some crossover points. I then hooked up the RCA cables to my amps, and my signal source (Toslink optical) and... nothing. I looked for a way to switch to Optical/Digital input, found it under preferences. Source is off at this point.
> 
> I then synced settings to the PS8, turned on my source, and got sound for about 10 seconds, so I clicked "save settings" which prompted me to give the XML file containing my settings a name. I clicked "Save" and received a error with some debugging info which I ignored. At this point, the PS8 restarted, and I have not been able to get it to do anything since then.
> It keeps restarting itself, and if I connect it via USB, I can see the status bar from the PS8 software going from "Connected" to "Not connected", then back to "Connected" while the unit itself blinks as it keep restarting every 2 seconds.
> 
> I unplugged the unit, tried again, and now I'm here. I saw mention of web-based support, where is the live chat, how do you get tech support from ARC?


Did you save the setup files to your desktop and run setup from there before connecting the unit?

There's a piece of instructions that comes with the unit stating this needs to be done. Just checking.


----------



## quality_sound

oca123 said:


> The unit is supposed to have a fail-safe to prevent getting bricked following a USB communication error.
> I am definitely experiencing an issue with the firmware itself, as I have it sitting on my desk right now, not hooked up to anything but power, and it's still rebooting.
> Hopefully there is a reset switch somewhere.
> 
> Out of curiosity, how did you secure it? There are no tabs, so I'm guessing I have to mount it from underneath the rack?



There's a menu function to force a restart. I know Fred flies back from Australia Monday but Brad should be in the office.

Arc Audio Contacts


----------



## quality_sound

Victor_inox said:


> sounds like a wonderful unit so far.


He's the only person I know of that's gotten it to do anything but work perfectly. I'm sure it's something simple. Knowing what won't get it to shut down I am sure this is a simple fix.


----------



## oca123

bikinpunk said:


> Did you save the setup files to your desktop and run setup from there before connecting the unit?
> 
> There's a piece of instructions that comes with the unit stating this needs to be done. Just checking.


Yeah, I extracted all of the setup files, installed the software on my tablet, and did not connect the unit until the software and drivers were installed.
It worked for about 10 minutes, then not sure what happened.

I just tried hooking up DC to the unit using the barrel jack, but it doesn't turn on that way.

I will try removing the top cover and post back what i find.

Also people don't jump the gun, I too have heard only good things about this unit and I don't know anyone else who's had a problem with it... but as with everything, only the ones having problems will post, so the fact that I'm having an issue is not representative of the quality of the entire batch


----------



## BuickGN

Niebur3 said:


> I was told mine shipped yesterday!!!!!!!


I hope you still have one when I stop by, I've been dying to see this thing in person.


----------



## BuickGN

oca123 said:


> Yeah, I extracted all of the setup files, installed the software on my tablet, and did not connect the unit until the software and drivers were installed.
> It worked for about 10 minutes, then not sure what happened.
> 
> I just tried hooking up DC to the unit using the barrel jack, but it doesn't turn on that way.
> 
> I will try removing the top cover and post back what i find.
> 
> Also people don't jump the gun, I too have heard only good things about this unit and I don't know anyone else who's had a problem with it... but as with everything, only the ones having problems will post, so the fact that I'm having an issue is not representative of the quality of the entire batch


Good luck with it. I'm interested in the fix since I will hopefully have one in the not too distant future.


----------



## oca123

BuickGN said:


> Good luck with it. I'm interested in the fix since I will hopefully have one in the not too distant future.


there is a reset button. its next to a led labeled "watchdog" which turns on. pushing it or holding it does not resolve the issue. there is also a jumper but i dont want to touch it as i dont know what it does.

i will call arc tomorrow.


----------



## quality_sound

Arc is closed on Saturdays. I sent Fred a message with a link to your post. I don't know his schedule as he's out of the country but hopefully he can pop in and get you sorted out.


----------



## oca123

pyropoptrt said:


> I know you're just testing it right now but how do you plan to control the volume without the controller? The mounting tabs are underneath the metal shroud which can be removed by removing the four screws holding the black center plexi piece. I believe there is a reset next to the arc logo on one of the sides, I may be wrong though.


Thanks, the metal cover does come out. The unit is much thinner without it, and much lighter. See picture below. This is great as it can allow both a stealth or a showy install. The reset button is on the PCB, next to a jumper, the connector for the black center plexi piece lights, and a connector labeled "Bluetooth" 

There are mounting tabs just like you said.

This is a great unit, and I know my issue will get sorted out, I'm not angry or anything. It may be an easy fix, regardless I know it's an isolated incident and I know these things happen.

Quality_sound (Paul?) thank you for your help, I truly appreciate it. I can wait until Monday. I'm not driving anywhere this weekend, and plan to stay home as they are closing part of the freeway next to my house to shoot The Hangover 3. (Caltrans got $300,000 for that, and I have no problem with it, better they get it than the Canucks or some other freeway authority in Czech Republic)

I tried putting power through the barrel jack (12V DC, center tip hot) but that doesn't work, maybe a jumper needs to be moved or it needs Remote input.

I'm sure the manual will answer all of these questions when it comes out.


----------



## oca123

Forgot the pics..


----------



## bbfoto

Awesome! Glad you finally got it. Can't believe that they released it without having a user manual included or available online.

How thick is it without the shroud or cover?


----------



## clayton1985

oca123 said:


> (Caltrans got $300,000 for that, and I have no problem with it, better they get it than *the Canucks* or some other freeway authority in Czech Republic)
> .


Hey! You be nice 

That PS8 sure looks good though.


----------



## oca123

LOL, I remembered your post and I was looking for a ruler when I saw your post. I will measure it later, update this post and PM you.

EDIT: 7/8'' but that means you also need to remove the top cover with the logo and lights. If you're back in town, you're welcome to come by and check it out to see if it fits where you want it to fit.


----------



## oca123

Well, I don't know what to do with myself, since I'd planned the evening to play with the PS8, so here's a pic of the PCB. The reset switch can be seen towards the center. There is another switch, top left, next to the DC barrel plug, not sure what it does.










EDIT: there are some small artifacts because I took 3 pictures and then stitched them together.


----------



## oca123

I held the button next to the barrel jack, then the lights stopped blinking and stayed solid. Following that, I pushed the reset button on the PCB.
The unit started normally. I hooked it up to the computer, started the software, and was able to access it. I hit the Firmware update button, it checked versions, said both versions were the same, I updated anyway, it went fine. I was able to play with unit for a couple minutes, then the problem started again.

I guess the unit is not faulty, and it must be a bug. I tried the button next to the barrel jack again, but this time, the unit didn't come back on. I'll just wait until Monday.


----------



## quality_sound

I wonder if its seeing something it's not liking or not seeing something it's expecting to.


----------



## BigRed

I've tuned on one of the first to be available and had no issues although there were a few things I couldn't do because of the learning curve. Other than that the unit synced up with no problem I'm sure arc will take care of whatever issue u have

On a side note did u Try and load the software on a regular laptop and try tuning ? Just a thought


----------



## oca123

Well, since my last post, I tried on 3 computers. Same thing. Something has to be wrong with the unit, or with the way I am doing things.

I have GND, 12V, and Rem in hooked up to the unit. I even disconnected Rem out in case the load on it was too high (I am usign a relay though, but I wanted to be sure)

EDIT: I feel selfish for continuing to post about this issue here. We all know that Arc will fix the issue, and I shouldnt be posting this much abotu it, it will make them look bad.


----------



## subwoofery

Guess Arc is not immune to problem that arises from their processor too... They really are human  

Kelvin


----------



## oca123

It could be my fault too. I want to thank everyone on here by the way. You guys are awesome, thanks to the ones who PMed me to help as well. I'm going to wait until Arc gets ahold of me on here or until Monday morning, whichever comes soonest. I'll find something else to do until then


----------



## thehatedguy

You can change the output opamps but not the inputs?


----------



## oca123

thehatedguy said:


> You can change the output opamps but not the inputs?


Not without a soldering iron, a lot of patience and nerves of steel I'm afraid.
There's always the digital inputs


----------



## bbfoto

oca123 said:


> LOL, I remembered your post and I was looking for a ruler when I saw your post. I will measure it later, update this post and PM you.
> 
> EDIT: 7/8'' but that means you also need to remove the top cover with the logo and lights. If you're back in town, you're welcome to come by and check it out to see if it fits where you want it to fit.


THANK YOU! Got your PM as well. 

That measurement is all that I needed to confirm that the PS8 will fit where I want to mount it under the rear quarter-panel trim in my vehicle.  I have 1-1/4" clearance, so the 3Sixty.3 at 1-5/8" is a no-go in this location.

Unfortunately, the PS8 is useless to me ATM because the two main sources I am using are Toslink digital, so I would definitely need the PSC.

Come on ARC, get your sh!t together and release the PSC and BTM. It's 2012. You gotta realize that at least 50% of us (especially here on DIYMA) will want to use the Digital Inputs almost exclusively.

oca123, sorry to hear about the issues with your unit. Again, that's just one reason why the PS8 should not have been released without a proper user manual with a troubleshooting section. If it had, you would probably know whether you really have a faulty unit, or if it is just an overlooked user error, etc. I'm sure that Arc will get back to you and get this sorted out, but just sayin'! It's kind of sad that in Fred Lynch's DIYMA signature it says, "*when in doubt RTFM"!


----------



## quality_sound

What are the overall dimensions with the top plate on?


----------



## thehatedguy

Anyone else think that swapping only the outputs without the ability to swap the inputs is a bit odd? No matter what you have on the outputs, it all is flavored by the analog inputs...if you are using them.

It's cool they gave the option to swap them, but let us swap all of them.


----------



## oca123

Paul check out post #97, I verified these to be accurate.
Yeah, it's odd. There are a few things that are odd with the PS8.

The more I look at the Cirrus Logic docs, the more I want to order one of their test boards. The test board comes with DSP Composer software. If any of you have used a CarPC before, it's kind of like dragging and dropping VST plugins and setting up a signal chain.
What's interesting is the amount of stuff the Cirrus Logic DSP chips can do. After all, the JBL MS8, Rockford 3.360.3, PS8, H800, etc. all use similar chips with roughly the same functions. Even the chip in the PS8 seems to support a microphone input for room correction.
Here's the test board from Cirrus Logic. I can probably get one for free:










I wonder if ARC planned to keep a few extra PS8s on hand for warranty replacements or if RMAs will need to wait until a 2nd batch comes in.

And Neil, about "true" center channel extraction... The CS DSP chip has an active matrix decoder. The funny part is that the Cirrus Logic chips already include Dolby Virtual Speaker, SRS TruSurround XT, Dolby Prologic II and IIx, SRS CSII and Cirrus Original Surround. I guess the OEM needs to pay to be allowed to use them, but the point is that they are already there. There is also the ability to load up DTS, etc. via i2C.
Neil, check out the documents under Resources here: CS48520/40/60 : High-Performance, Low Cost 32-Bit Audio Processor


I wonder how Bluetooth is going to work. I can't really tell from looking at the board, but I hope that bluetooth audio is going to the digital inputs on the DSP, not the analog.


----------



## bbfoto

oca123 said:


> I held the button next to the barrel jack, then the lights stopped blinking and stayed solid. Following that, I pushed the reset button on the PCB.
> The unit started normally. I hooked it up to the computer, started the software, and was able to access it. I hit the Firmware update button, it checked versions, said both versions were the same, I updated anyway, it went fine. I was able to play with unit for a couple minutes, then the problem started again.
> 
> I guess the unit is not faulty, and it must be a bug. I tried the button next to the barrel jack again, but this time, the unit didn't come back on. I'll just wait until Monday.


Hmmm...sounds like a cold solder joint somewhere, or a bad transistor that will work for a few minutes until it heats up.


----------



## thehatedguy

We must have been on the cl website at the same time...I was thinking the same thing though I would have to pay for mine.

I wonder how close these processors are to the data sheets? There are several home DACs and such that are identical to the data sheets.


----------



## oca123

no, i dont think that's what it is. the DSP is unable to boot because there's an error loading up the code from the host. its ok, it's ARC's job to fix it, and I'm sure they will tomorrow.


----------



## bbfoto

thehatedguy said:


> Anyone else think that swapping only the outputs without the ability to swap the inputs is a bit odd? No matter what you have on the outputs, it all is flavored by the analog inputs...if you are using them.
> 
> It's cool they gave the option to swap them, but let us swap all of them.


I agree. Why not be able to swap all of them? Maybe Robert figured that if someone (a "power user") was going to the lengths to swap the OpAmps, that they would most likely be using the digital inputs? So maybe it was more cost-effective for them to produce it with the ICs soldered to the PCB, though it seems like it would be pennies in cost difference.


----------



## bbfoto

oca123 said:


> no, i dont think that's what it is. the DSP is unable to boot because there's an error loading up the code from the host. its ok, it's ARC's job to fix it, and I'm sure they will tomorrow.


Gotcha. Yeah, the unit didn't shut down, it just kept trying to restart/reload/reboot. Maybe a bad RAM/ROM/EPROM module? Anyway, in your business, I'm sure you understand this stuff WAY more than I do, LOL.

I'm sure Arc will take care of you. Good people there for sure.


----------



## oca123

bbfoto said:


> Gotcha. Yeah, the unit didn't shut down, it just kept trying to restart/reboot. I'm sure Arc will take care of you.


Yup. I'm just curious to see if they will have me RMA it, or if I will be allowed to use some software to reprogram it. After these posts, I'm guessing the former, hahahaha


----------



## quality_sound

thehatedguy said:


> Anyone else think that swapping only the outputs without the ability to swap the inputs is a bit odd? No matter what you have on the outputs, it all is flavored by the analog inputs...if you are using them.
> 
> It's cool they gave the option to swap them, but let us swap all of them.


I haven't heard of anyone EVER complaining about the inputs but people are ALWAYS whining about the outputs.


----------



## quality_sound

oca123 said:


> Paul check out post #97, I verified these to be accurate.
> Yeah, it's odd. There are a few things that are odd with the PS8.
> 
> The more I look at the Cirrus Logic docs, the more I want to order one of their test boards. The test board comes with DSP Composer software. If any of you have used a CarPC before, it's kind of like dragging and dropping VST plugins and setting up a signal chain.
> What's interesting is the amount of stuff the Cirrus Logic DSP chips can do. After all, the JBL MS8, Rockford 3.360.3, PS8, H800, etc. all use similar chips with roughly the same functions. Even the chip in the PS8 seems to support a microphone input for room correction.
> Here's the test board from Cirrus Logic. I can probably get one for free:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if ARC planned to keep a few extra PS8s on hand for warranty replacements or if RMAs will need to wait until a 2nd batch comes in.
> 
> And Neil, about "true" center channel extraction... The CS DSP chip has an active matrix decoder. The funny part is that the Cirrus Logic chips already include Dolby Virtual Speaker, SRS TruSurround XT, Dolby Prologic II and IIx, SRS CSII and Cirrus Original Surround. I guess the OEM needs to pay to be allowed to use them, but the point is that they are already there. There is also the ability to load up DTS, etc. via i2C.
> Neil, check out the documents under Resources here: CS48520/40/60 : High-Performance, Low Cost 32-Bit Audio Processor
> 
> 
> I wonder how Bluetooth is going to work. I can't really tell from looking at the board, but I hope that bluetooth audio is going to the digital inputs on the DSP, not the analog.



Fred said it goes directly into the DSP chip in digital form.


----------



## quality_sound

oca123 said:


> Yup. I'm just curious to see if they will have me RMA it, or if I will be allowed to use some software to reprogram it. After these posts, I'm guessing the former, hahahaha


They're going to have you connect it to your computer and they're going to remotely log in and troubleshoot it as a first step.


----------



## quality_sound

bbfoto said:


> Gotcha. Yeah, the unit didn't shut down, it just kept trying to restart/reload/reboot. Maybe a bad RAM/ROM/EPROM module? Anyway, in your business, I'm sure you understand this stuff WAY more than I do, LOL.
> 
> I'm sure Arc will take care of you. Good people there for sure.



If it's stuck in a reboot loop that means the update was corrupted. It's supposed to revert back to the original firmware. When it gets stuck there is a function to force it back to the older firmware. I'll bet money that's all it is and it'll be up and running very shortly after talking to Arc.


----------



## BuickGN

I have a friend that's fallen on hard times and he has a couple of decent laptops he's selling. I almost bought one and realized I didn't know the minimum requirements for the PS8. I'm assuming it's on the site, right? I only ask because I can't access their site right now.


----------



## quality_sound




----------



## BuickGN

quality_sound said:


>


Awesome, thanks for spoon feeding me. . Hopefully i'll have a laptop when I get home.


----------



## quality_sound

I'd have cut and pasted it but it's a flash page (I think) so it wasn't an option. And typing all that out? Well...**** THAT noise. lol


----------



## oca123

they wont be able to connect to the unit if it wont start, but there is a procedure to get around that, since i did it the other day. it could be a piece of software i have on all 3 computers that causes a conflict, which froze up the unit. i have a carpc with windws xp. i will go dig it up.


----------



## thehatedguy

But everything coming out of the outputs has had to go through the inputs if you are going analog in to it. No matter how good of outputs you put in there, the effects of the inputs are still there.


----------



## quality_sound

Agreed, but generally speaking, the people that are going to want to change the outputs will be doing digital inputs. I know that's not really possible right now though.


----------



## thehatedguy

Yep.

And I am speaking in absolutes too. I can't quite make out the markings on the input chips. Might be they don't need to be changed.


----------



## BuickGN

Totally off topic but I'm getting excited, I might have a PS8 tomorrow depending on how fast I can drive. Can't wait to get rid of my current processor and try something new.


----------



## thehatedguy

Fugger


----------



## nepl29




----------



## Mic10is

thehatedguy said:


> Yep.
> 
> And I am speaking in absolutes too. I can't quite make out the markings on the input chips. Might be they don't need to be changed.


5532 as far as I know


----------



## oca123

thehatedguy said:


> Yep.
> 
> And I am speaking in absolutes too. I can't quite make out the markings on the input chips. Might be they don't need to be changed.


Here MC33079D datasheet, MC33079D datasheets, MC33079D datenblatt, MC33079D manual, MC33079D data sheets, MC33079D pdf - ALLDATASHEET.COM

I was under the impression that opamps on inputs didn't have the potential to generate as much noise as the ones on outputs unless the incoming signal was very weak

I think very few people will be replacing the opamps anyway, but many people will be buying the PS8 because, among other things, opamps can be swapped...


----------



## thehatedguy

You can get the 4562 in a quad package fwiw. Just means you will probably void the warranty.


----------



## oca123

I called Arc and spoke with Brad. I explained the problem, and he said it could not be fixed remotely and I would have to RMA it.
Stubborn as I am, I kept messing with it after hanging up the phone. I would put it in bootloader mode, force feed it the firmware, etc.

*[Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results]*

Eventually, after almost 10 minutes of insanity, clicking "Restart PS8" after flashing the firmware, actually got the PS8 to boot. But every time I would disconnect power and reconnect it, it would start the reboot loop again.
About to give up, I thought, well, I should at least listen to this thing before I send it back. So I flashed it again, restarted it, quit the software, disconnected usb, reconnected usb, started the software, and went into the "Password" menu. It was bitching that there was a password on the device and it didn't match or something (I never set any). 
I cleared the password, rebooted the device, and now it seems to be working properly (it doesn't get stuck in a loop)
I'm crossing my fingers that it keeps working, I was really bummed about having to send it back. I still don't know what was wrong with it. I don't know if it was the password or what. I doubt it.


----------



## falstaff

nepl29 said:


>


Are you upgrading our opamps now or after some "seat time"?


----------



## andrew2944r

Still waiting on mine, this sucks!


----------



## BuickGN

The countdown begins.


----------



## nepl29

falstaff said:


> Are you upgrading our opamps now or after some "seat time"?


Now


----------



## falstaff

nepl29 said:


> Now


Nice


----------



## bbfoto

nepl29 said:


>


 
falstaff doesn't need that 2nd PS8...SEND IT TO ME! BWAHHAHHHAH


----------



## bbfoto

oca123 said:


> I called Arc and spoke with Brad. I explained the problem, and he said it could not be fixed remotely and I would have to RMA it.
> Stubborn as I am, I kept messing with it after hanging up the phone. I would put it in bootloader mode, force feed it the firmware, etc.
> 
> *[Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results]*
> 
> Eventually, after almost 10 minutes of insanity, clicking "Restart PS8" after flashing the firmware, actually got the PS8 to boot. But every time I would disconnect power and reconnect it, it would start the reboot loop again.
> About to give up, I thought, well, I should at least listen to this thing before I send it back. So I flashed it again, restarted it, quit the software, disconnected usb, reconnected usb, started the software, and went into the "Password" menu. It was bitching that there was a password on the device and it didn't match or something (I never set any).
> I cleared the password, rebooted the device, and now it seems to be working properly (it doesn't get stuck in a loop)
> I'm crossing my fingers that it keeps working, I was really bummed about having to send it back. I still don't know what was wrong with it. I don't know if it was the password or what. I doubt it.


 
Nice! Your stubborness (persistence) paid off! Weird...Maybe Arc forgot to clear the password after they QC'd the unit? Anyway, glad it's working! Sucks that you lost a few days where you could have already had it installed and wrapped up your trunk. At least if this happens to anyone else, we'll know what to try first!  Thanks for that!


----------



## ErinH

mine has a locked down password as well but it's not a big deal to me as it doesn't hinder me from making changes. I only noticed it because I was curious to see how password protect worked (it's a feature that keeps others from effing with your settings). I figure I'll ask Arc about it when I get to it. I'm sure these little things are covered in the manual and since it doesn't keep me from doing anything other than setting a password to protect it, it doesn't really matter to me.s


----------



## bbfoto

oca123 said:


> I wonder how Bluetooth is going to work. I can't really tell from looking at the board, but I hope that bluetooth audio is going to the digital inputs on the DSP, not the analog.


Would be nice if the BTM was updated to be Bluetooth v3.0-4.0 with APT-X.  And I don't see any reason why an audio signal transferred via a Bluetooth dongle/module would have to go through any type of analog preamp circuitry instead of being decoded digitally through the BT radio receiver...but I'm no EE or codec maestro.

I know you're using a Win7 tablet which is awesome, but this thing would absolutely kill it if they released Android and iOS control/interface tablet apps!


----------



## bbfoto

bikinpunk said:


> mine has a locked down password as well but it's not a big deal to me as it doesn't hinder me from making changes. I only noticed it because I was curious to see how password protect worked (it's a feature that keeps others from effing with your settings). I figure I'll ask Arc about it when I get to it. I'm sure these little things are covered in the manual and since it doesn't keep me from doing anything other than setting a password to protect it, it doesn't really matter to me.s


Erin, I thought that in order to enable the "expert", "advanced", or "awesome" mode (I forget what Arc calls it) that you had to have it "unlocked" and by doing so you forfeited any type of warranty. Or do you only set a password yourself to protect others from changing your settings? Guess I should read that review again...confused.


----------



## t3sn4f2

bbfoto said:


> Would be nice if the BTM was updated to be Bluetooth v3.0-4.0 with APT-X.  *And I don't see any reason why an audio signal transferred via a Bluetooth dongle/module would have to go through any type of analog preamp circuitry instead of being decoded digitally through the BT radio receiver...but I'm no EE or codec maestro*.
> 
> I know you're using a Win7 tablet which is awesome, but this thing would absolutely kill it if they released Android and iOS control/interface tablet apps!


Maybe something to do with licensing restrictions and cost. Something an DAC/ADC stage would circumvent. 

Not like if bluetoof would be an advantage anyways. You'd still have to navigate and display from the device. For that you are way way better off using a digital hardwire dock/interface which is better quality and charges the device as well. Along with all the other functional conveniences.


----------



## bbfoto

t3sn4f2 said:


> Maybe something to do with licensing restrictions and cost. Something an DAC/ADC stage would circumvent.
> 
> Not like if bluetoof would be an advantage anyways. You'd still have to navigate and display from the device. For that you are way way better off using a digital hardwire dock/interface which is better quality and charges the device as well. Along with all the other functional conveniences.


Yeah. I'm more interested in using the Bluetooth to allow full control of the PS8 via an Android or iOS tablet app, rather than streaming audio, but it would still be nice for listening in "driving mode" or on road trips or when you have others in the car that want to stream from their own device using BT.

oca123, for further confirmation that the BT audio most likely goes through the Digital Inputs on the PS8, the review states that you MUST have the PSC in order to use the BTM (and of course the digital inputs). So the PSC would act as the only volume level adjustment for BT Audio.


----------



## ErinH

bbfoto said:


> Erin, I thought that in order to enable the "expert", "advanced", or "awesome" mode (I forget what Arc calls it) that you had to have it "unlocked" and by doing so you forfeited any type of warranty. Or do you only set a password yourself to protect others from changing your settings? Guess I should read that review again...confused.


you have to essentially sign a disclaimer (by acknowledging a command) when you setup the software. at least, that's how it was for me.


----------



## quality_sound

bbfoto said:


> Erin, I thought that in order to enable the "expert", "advanced", or "awesome" mode (I forget what Arc calls it) that you had to have it "unlocked" and by doing so you forfeited any type of warranty. Or do you only set a password yourself to protect others from changing your settings? Guess I should read that review again...confused.


Nope, you just switch to that mode from the laptop. There is a warning when you do it, but there's nothing to stop you.


----------



## bbfoto

^ & ^^ Thanks for the clarification guys!


----------



## oca123

Hi guys,

I asked Brad about bluetooth. He didn't know what codec would be used and whether it was lossless or not. He also didn't know whether the input would be analog or digital into the DSP. I'm guessing digital.

the controller will NOT allow playback control of the bluetooth source.

the PS8 works fine now. I'm not sure what the hiccup was. The bad/good news is that I can't use it until the controller comes out. The reason for that is that my i-20 dock resets the volume to 0db (max) when it turns on. Second, the volume curve seems to be linear on the i20, so the range of volume settings is limited. Furthermore, the PS8 puts out 8V on its preouts (tested) - what that means is that with all the gains on all of my amps set to the minimum sensitivity (8V) at 0db, my amps are putting out *full power* which is bad for my speakers, and even worse for my ears.

I cannot say for sure whether it sounds better than the H800 or the BitOne, because I didn't have sound for several days. It definitely seemed to make my speakers sing and sound amazing with no EQ.... but then again, I felt the same way after I turned things on for the first time after I rebuilt my trunk.

I think I might have to part with this thing. This is not an easy decision, and it isn't easy to admit that I've been stubborn. *There is no way I can use this thing without the remote. If I do, chances are I will end up blowing my mids, or getting in an accident because I'm driving around with my tablet PC hooked up to it* It sucks, because I've been waiting for it for so long. I will most likely purchase one when the remote comes out. I know ARC is shooting for the 1st quarter of 2013, but who knows when it will come out. 

The thing is, I'm not sure what else I can use in the meanwhile. I still need to satisfy my need for change. The H800+Controller is amazing, but I've had it for a while now and it's time to try something else. I've already had BitOne, MS8 and Carputer.
I guess that leaves the 6to8 and the 360.3. I also keep hearing about the P99, but isn't that a full blown head unit?

I am willing to trade or sell, unless someone knows how I can get my hands on a test version of the controller for the PS8 ahead of its release.

EDIT: I forgot about the Helix, and the new Zapco.


----------



## oca123

t3sn4f2 said:


> Maybe something to do with licensing restrictions and cost. Something an DAC/ADC stage would circumvent.
> 
> Not like if bluetoof would be an advantage anyways. You'd still have to navigate and display from the device. For that you are way way better off using a digital hardwire dock/interface which is better quality and charges the device as well. Along with all the other functional conveniences.


Yup. Streaming audio via bluetooth will kill your battery very quickly, which means you are going to need a charger. If you are going to have a charger hooked up to your ipod/iphone/whatever, then why stream via bluetooth and deal with the associated lag?


----------



## quality_sound

The PS8 is actually a unity gain with a maximum output of 8V. Whatever goes in comes back out.

I can't think of anything that will work for you except the P-DSP and maybe the 6to8 if the controller is available. I'll look at the manual when I get mine and let you know what I find.


----------



## oca123

quality_sound said:


> The PS8 is actually a unity gain with a maximum output of 8V. Whatever goes in comes back out.
> 
> I can't think of anything that will work for you except the P-DSP and maybe the 6to8 if the controller is available. I'll look at the manual when I get mine and let you know what I find.


I can't find any info on the Zapco. It has to have a remote, since it has optical inputs. It's also fairly cheap.
There's the RF 360.3, the 6to8. I already have the H800. The 6to8 controller is available. I think it's around $200.


As to the unity gain... I was not aware of that. I havent tried the analog inputs. The OEM signal in my car has EQ and T/A applied to it, so I don't use it. I use the optical input. It maxes out the input section of the DSP (healthy clipping from modern compressed music) so a test tone coming out of a sig gen app on the ipod at 0db sent over toslink results in the full 8V out. I have an osci and I can measure things. If anyone is curious, just tell me what signal to send to the PS8 and at what volume, and I will measure the output, take a screenshot and post it here.


----------



## quality_sound

P-DSP isn't Zapco, that's the DSP8. The P-DSP is a Helix. I don't think there is a controller for the 3Sixty.3 so that leaves the 6to8.


----------



## oca123

quality_sound said:


> P-DSP isn't Zapco, that's the DSP8. The P-DSP is a Helix. I don't think there is a controller for the 3Sixty.3 so that leaves the 6to8.


I know the C-DSP and P-DSP are by Helix out of Germany. I'm just not familiar with them. I know the DSP8 by Zapco got very little publicity but seems like a pretty good unit if you can get past the confusing interface.
I don't know if they have remotes, but any processor with a Toslink input should have at least a remote for volume control.

The remote is included with the 3.Sixty. It uses a chip in the same family as the PS8, or maybe its the same chip. They went further though and implemented the microphone input for auto t/a, etc. (useless though) and just like the 6to8, you can control it via bluetooth.

I guess all of these new DSPs are based on the same chips. I'm sure some of them are close to exact copies of the reference design provided by Cirrus Logic.

What that means is that they should be fairly identical. The difference is going to be in:
- how much time was spent developing software to control the DSP (using DSP Composer to make a half-ass interface vs coding something more complex)
- PCB layout if much different than reference layout, including PSU design (I wonder if anyone has pictures of the PS8 with the panels hiding the PSU removed)
- Quality and grade of components used (standard, mil-spec) - like opamps, capacitors, etc.
- Convenience features/accessories (bluetooth streaming, app for tuning via bluetooth, ability to control DSP using a controller, what can be done with the controller, use of the microphone input for room correction and auto t/a, roadEQ, and very important and overlooked by many - how much memory is provided, which dictates how many presets can be stored)

The part that puzzles me is that I have a feeling that testing these units using the consumer-grade tools that we have, seems to provide results that are inconsistent with people's experience. I know preconceptions, expectations,marketing, bribery, etc. are going to play a part, but what is it about a device that makes it sound better, yet is not obvious when comparing s/n ratio, f/r etc.??
Maybe this is the wrong forum for this kind of question.
If I didn't have a PS8 in my hands I would have a hard time justifying the unit's price. It has no extra features as of yet, the software is not very refined. Essentially, it's a stripped-down version of the other processors.
I'm guessing the reason why it sounds good lie in the PCB design and the quality of the components used. I wonder if someone who knows more can chime in.... and please, no comments amounting to "ARC sprinkles fairy dust on their amps" - I'm already ignorant as it is, let's balance things out and have someone knowledgeable put me in my place.


----------



## falstaff

*Originally Posted by bobwires*



> I will be very disappointed if there isn't an app for this. I view this as an absolute requirement for the best processor in the business. I don't care if you raise the price by $100.
> 
> Bluetooth would be fantastic, but even just usb interface would be fine with me. I want an iPad in the dash and a PS8. to have to plug in a laptop (I don't own a PC laptop) is going to be a problem for me.


*Arc Audio Admin*



> Just keep into consideration that fully integrated apps for IOS devices can start at about $25,000 and go up from there. From there if you want it compatiable with the 4S and/or Ipad its about another 50% of the total charge of the initial IOS investement. As much as we would all love this it has to make sense for that level of investment that not all people are going to take oppurtunity to partake in. The option is not off the table but we will just have to see if it ends up being in the cards.


----------



## invictuz

Finally, after a month of anticipation and weekly calls to check on status my PS8 is in Seattle...heading in now to pick it up.


----------



## oca123

Post back with your impressions.

I can't get over how simple the PS8's PCB looks. Here are pics of the H800 guts in comparison (front and back)


----------



## invictuz

some quick pix.
will put more up after work and install.

it is quite small


----------



## invictuz

couple more (testing camera from iphone 5)


----------



## oca123

It's not small. You have large hands 

Mine did not come wrapped in plastic like this.


----------



## invictuz

is this a passive device?
there is what appears to be a power input but there is no power cable.
a manual would have been nice since the Arc Audio PS8 guides all say "coming soon".

just an inital observation while in a conference call...


----------



## invictuz

might be something in there forums...unfortunately my account doesnt have perms to browse...and cant contact anyone through the forums...might call arc shortly


----------



## oca123

Take out the four screws around the center piece with the lights, then pull the center piece out. Unplug it gently from the PCB. Now pull up the brushed aluminum cover (it doesn't look like it, but it is separate)
this will uncover the actual processor. Everything is labeled.
Don't use the barrel jack. There should be a black connector in the box somewhere. It fits into the PS8, and has several leads... GND, 12V, Rem in, Rem out, Illum, P1, P2... if I recall... I may be missing one. You really just need GND, and 12V.

For turning on the unit you have two options. Either wire it using Rem In, in which case it's better if you have a steady DC accessory wire...
Or there is a jumper next to a reset button and a "watchdog" LED, which you can access through the cutout in the center. Remove the jumper. That enables BTL sensing on the RCA inputs. This works with speaker-level signal from the OEM unit. The PS8 senses the BTL chip on the other end. It sounds complicated but it's stupid simple. If you are going to be connecting the PS8 to an OEM HU, try the BTL turn-on method first. I believe it's only effective on one or two channels, ch1 and ch2.

Let me know if you need more help. Arc closes at 4:30pm PST so you wont have much luck reaching them.


EDIT: in the 2nd picture with the jiu jitsu logo, the connector I am talking about is visible on the right side of the device. Pull it out. The PS8 comes with no mounting hardware, no cables, no manual, no CD. I guess it's because they cater to installers directly, plus it saves on costs.
I wouldn't use the RCA cables that came with the PS8 if I were you. They are too loose.


----------



## invictuz

oca123 said:


> Take out the four screws around the center piece with the lights, then pull the center piece out. Unplug it gently from the PCB. Now pull up the brushed aluminum cover (it doesn't look like it, but it is separate)
> this will uncover the actual processor. Everything is labeled.
> Don't use the barrel jack. There should be a black connector in the box somewhere. It fits into the PS8, and has several leads... GND, 12V, Rem in, Rem out, Illum, P1, P2... if I recall... I may be missing one. You really just need GND, and 12V.
> 
> For turning on the unit you have two options. Either wire it using Rem In, in which case it's better if you have a steady DC accessory wire...
> Or there is a jumper next to a reset button and a "watchdog" LED, which you can access through the cutout in the center. Remove the jumper. That enables BTL sensing on the RCA inputs. This works with speaker-level signal from the OEM unit. The PS8 senses the BTL chip on the other end. It sounds complicated but it's stupid simple. If you are going to be connecting the PS8 to an OEM HU, try the BTL turn-on method first. I believe it's only effective on one or two channels, ch1 and ch2.
> 
> Let me know if you need more help. Arc closes at 4:30pm PST so you wont have much luck reaching them.
> 
> 
> EDIT: in the 2nd picture with the jiu jitsu logo, the connector I am talking about is visible on the right side of the device. Pull it out. The PS8 comes with no mounting hardware, no cables, no manual, no CD. I guess it's because they cater to installers directly, plus it saves on costs.
> I wouldn't use the RCA cables that came with the PS8 if I were you. They are too loose.


Excellent info!


----------



## thehatedguy

I am still baffled by not being able to swap the inputs. What they are using on the inputs could be upgraded with a 5534...baffling.

Like putting race gas in a Pinto and thinking you are going to run in the 9s in the 1/4 mile.


----------



## req

does the auto sense work with a digital toslink input as well?


----------



## quality_sound

^^^No.


----------



## redgst97

the op amps i the PS8 have never been a concern in this unit....believe me, I/we have tested a BUNCH on thsi bad-boy,

Im NOT saying there are not upgrades, but i can tell you there are MANY things you can do to upgrade your sound BEFORE the op amps have to be changed, if at all.


----------



## audionutz

redgst97 said:


> the op amps i the PS8 have never been a concern in this unit....believe me, I/we have tested a BUNCH on thsi bad-boy,
> 
> Im NOT saying there are not upgrades, but i can tell you there are MANY things you can do to upgrade your sound BEFORE the op amps have to be changed, if at all.


100% concur!


----------



## oca123

redgst97 said:


> the op amps i the PS8 have never been a concern in this unit....believe me, I/we have tested a BUNCH on thsi bad-boy,
> 
> Im NOT saying there are not upgrades, but i can tell you there are MANY things you can do to upgrade your sound BEFORE the op amps have to be changed, if at all.


Such as?


----------



## thehatedguy

I am just saying what good is doing only the outputs when using analog inputs the signal has to pass through those guys...any goodness the outputs arr doing, the inputs are holding it all back.

Maybe I am the only one thinking this way.


----------



## oca123

Even if the input signal is high enough and no amplification is done, opamps have a "phase" signature, i.e. they alter the phase of the signal. I too wonder why they didn't allow for the opamps on the inputs to be changed.


----------



## quality_sound

Maybe they felt they were far from being the limfac? Just spitballing here.


----------



## oca123

This could go on forever. I'll send Arc an email and see what they have to say.


----------



## req

Ugh, why is it so hard to use optical... It should be easier than analog!


----------



## thehatedguy

Saying they are unimportant is like saying I can make the best prime rib in the world...but let me go to the store get me some chicken breastwork to start with. I can season and prepare them in such a way you will swear it's prime rib. No, no you can't.


----------



## oca123

lol... as they say... you can polish a turd all day....

About the input opamps, here is the official answer from Arc:

_*Pascal,
You can ot change the input opamps without risking a significantly reducing the common mode noise rejection. All the part values in the balanced input would probably need to be changed at the same time.
Regards,
B[edited name]
Arc Audio*_



I think I want to sell my PS8. It sounds great, and performs as intended, but it's not practical without a remote since I mainly use an optical signal. When the remote comes out I will buy another PS8 and a remote.
Obviously I'd rather sell it to someone local who can pick it up. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## redgst97

oca123 said:


> Such as?


proper set-up and installation of a sound system. That is steps 1 through 500.

No sure whey the first thing someone wants to do is take apart a new piece of equipment and finger fcuk it.....use it as it is, and see what you can do with it.


----------



## thehatedguy

I like getting my fingers wet...lol


----------



## oca123

redgst97 said:


> proper set-up and installation of a sound system. That is steps 1 through 500.



I did not mean to sound sarcastic when I said "such as?" - I was just being lazy. If I could go back in time I would have typed this: "I completely agree. What, in your opinion, are the main things someone can upgrade/redo to improve sound?"
IMO, amps are probably last on the list unless they have major issues. Same with wires - if there is no significant voltage drop, no need to replace. Most processors these days are comparable in performance.
I think speaker aiming, damping, maybe?



> No sure whey the first thing someone wants to do is take apart a new piece of equipment and finger fcuk it.....use it as it is, and see what you can do with it.


I like taking things apart, it's one of the main reasons why I've done well in life.
If you're referring to the guy who's replacing op-amps as soon as he receives the unit, maybe he's already tweaked on the rest of his system so much that the only thing left to do to yield an improvement is an opamp swap?


----------



## t3sn4f2

oca123 said:


> I did not mean to sound sarcastic when I said "such as?" - I was just being lazy. If I could go back in time I would have typed this: "I completely agree. What, in your opinion, are the main things someone can upgrade/redo to improve sound?"
> IMO, amps are probably last on the list unless they have major issues. Same with wires - if there is no significant voltage drop, no need to replace. Most processors these days are comparable in performance.
> I think speaker aiming, damping, maybe?
> 
> 
> I like taking things apart, it's one of the main reasons why I've done well in life.
> If you're referring to the guy who's replacing op-amps as soon as he receives the unit, maybe he's already tweaked on the rest of his system so much that the only thing left to do to yield an improvement is an opamp swap?


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-truth-myths-industry-dogma/124821-op-amps-myths-facts-measurements.html


----------



## thehatedguy

There we go, was wondering what was taking you so long to post that.


----------



## thehatedguy

So Paul, you are keeping yours completely stock?


----------



## t3sn4f2

thehatedguy said:


> There we go, was wondering what was taking you so long to post that.


I aim to please. He is after all my Werewolf of sorts.


----------



## thehatedguy

Right on.


----------



## quality_sound

thehatedguy said:


> So Paul, you are keeping yours completely stock?


If I get one I will. I've heard a bone stock one and was more than happy with it.


----------



## thehatedguy

If? You know you are getting one.

I walk a double edged sword with the opamps...will. explain more when I can use a real keyboard.


----------



## ErinH

Mine will remain stock.


----------



## quality_sound

thehatedguy said:


> If? You know you are getting one.
> 
> I walk a double edged sword with the opamps...will. explain more when I can use a real keyboard.



I'm sure I will. I just ordered a 6to8 though so it'll be a while. Paying MSRP and having to wait kinda killed it. I'm trying to have the car done before the 16th.


----------



## ErinH

Save yourself the trouble and send the 6to8 back. Trust me.


----------



## BuickGN

I'm definitely having second thoughts on the PS8. I wanted it because I believe it's something I could grow into despite my novice skill level right now but I think a Bit One is all I currently need. Maybe I'll "upgrade" in the future when they're available immediately and they're not going for full MSRP. The sooner I can get out from under the MS8 the better.


----------



## Mic10is

quality_sound said:


> I'm sure I will. I just ordered a 6to8 though so it'll be a while. Paying MSRP and having to wait kinda killed it. I'm trying to have the car done before the 16th.





bikinpunk said:


> Save yourself the trouble and send the 6to8 back. Trust me.


Dont listen to Erin---6to8 is more than capable of meeting just about anyone's tuning needs.
yes it has quirks--mine has zero issues--so its just Erin that gets bad products sent to him

PS8 is quite impressive, I will run one in My other car. but I do like the parametric EQ and size of the 6to8


----------



## Schizm

oca123 said:


> I did not mean to sound sarcastic when I said "such as?" - I was just being lazy. If I could go back in time I would have typed this: "I completely agree. What, in your opinion, are the main things someone can upgrade/redo to improve sound?"
> IMO, amps are probably last on the list unless they have major issues. Same with wires - if there is no significant voltage drop, no need to replace. Most processors these days are comparable in performance.
> I think speaker aiming, damping, maybe?


This would just be a conversation completely off topic on this thread and one much discussed elsewhere. 

Not that this post of mine and plenty of others aren't also OT lol.


----------



## quality_sound

bikinpunk said:


> Save yourself the trouble and send the 6to8 back. Trust me.


PM sent


----------



## BuickGN

BuickGN said:


> I'm definitely having second thoughts on the PS8. I wanted it because I believe it's something I could grow into despite my novice skill level right now but I think a Bit One is all I currently need. Maybe I'll "upgrade" in the future when they're available immediately and they're not going for full MSRP. The sooner I can get out from under the MS8 the better.


I guess I'm a liar. Just impulse bought one after seeing it in person. Damn you Jerry lol.


----------



## thehatedguy

You didn't have anyone fooled...lol


----------



## ErinH

BuickGN said:


> I guess I'm a liar. Just impulse bought one after seeing it in person. Damn you Jerry lol.


oh great. now we'll see posts asking how to tune? should I queue up the "search nooB" responses yet? 


just effin' with you, man.


----------



## BuickGN

thehatedguy said:


> You didn't have anyone fooled...lol


Except myself.


----------



## BuickGN

bikinpunk said:


> oh great. now we'll see posts asking how to tune? should I queue up the "search nooB" responses yet?
> 
> 
> just effin' with you, man.


Ive printed out a ton of tutorials from here and all over. Lots of old threads from here and several pages of notes so far. Literally close to 1,000 pages printed. But yeah, that probably won't stop the stupid questions lol but I'll try my best to wait until I'm really stuck. The thing that has me worried is there is no manual with this thing.


----------



## oca123

Just post here, and we'll try to help. It didnt take too long to get used to the software. It sounded great out of the box for me, and I didnt touch the EQ section too much.
What are you doing with that MS8? I have a couple of them here, but I don't have the microphone anymore, or the harnesses. I've been thinking about using one of the MS8s in one of the rooms of my house that has a 5.1 in-ceiling system. Curious to see how the MS8 would tune that... lol

Unless someone knows where I can get a PS8 remote ahead of its release, I'm officially selling the PS8. It's a hard decision but if I keep it, without the remote and with an optical in, I am going to blow speakers. I can get MSRP for it, so that's what it's going for, but a partial trade or a trade would be even sweeter  I dont know what I want, sorry hahaha... yes, I'm the guy who buys the Mystery Box... lol

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/138463-arc-audio-ps8.html


----------



## BuickGN

I happen to have two microphone headsets and one input harness, one output harness. One is Andy W's personal headset given to me free of charge when I was having issues so in good conscience I should run it by him before giving it away. I would probably give the MS8 away in trade for a few minutes of listening time in the Bentley.


----------



## oca123

LOL, do you hate the MS8 this much? My car doesn't sound very good right now. I need to drill holes in the backseat to bolt the baffle that holds the 15s more tightly, and there's a bit of rattle control that needs to be done here and there.

And then, I also want to build sealed pods for the NZ3 mids.

I'm happy with the midbass. But I wouldn't mind something that plays a little higher, just for flexibility.

I have two MS8s. I'm sure I can pick up headsets, etc. for them cheap but I just haven't really looked. Even if you gave me your headset, I probably wouldn't use it... so dont worry about it.

I dont get how people think its such a privilege to sit in the bentley. All it is is a rebadged VW Phaeton. So don't worry about it... when we meet, you can drive the thing... I don't care... haha

I'm off to sleep now.


----------



## quality_sound

oca123 said:


> LOL, do you hate the MS8 this much? My car doesn't sound very good right now. I need to drill holes in the backseat to bolt the baffle that holds the 15s more tightly, and there's a bit of rattle control that needs to be done here and there.
> 
> And then, I also want to build sealed pods for the NZ3 mids.
> 
> I'm happy with the midbass. But I wouldn't mind something that plays a little higher, just for flexibility.
> 
> I have two MS8s. I'm sure I can pick up headsets, etc. for them cheap but I just haven't really looked. Even if you gave me your headset, I probably wouldn't use it... so dont worry about it.
> 
> I dont get how people think its such a privilege to sit in the bentley. *All it is is a rebadged VW Phaeton.* So don't worry about it... when we meet, you can drive the thing... I don't care... haha
> 
> I'm off to sleep now.


Not exactly. Bentleys started incorporating some of VWs technology since the buyout but calling a Bentley a rebadged Phaeton is a tad heavy-handed. If anything, the Phaeton is a rebadged Bentley but that's just as disingenuous. They're really not all THAT similar.


----------



## DevilSun

Well, I'm interested in getting one of these...unfortunately I live 200 miles from any Arc dealer, and none of them will respond to my emails, or get information for me. So those dealers won't get my business, guess I'll have to expand my dealer search or private.


----------



## oca123

That's because ARC only allowed a certain number of units for each dealer. Lead times are uncertain and supply is scarce. Only reason I have one is because I called up my dealer on the day ARC was taking pre-orders for them.


----------



## quality_sound

DevilSun said:


> Well, I'm interested in getting one of these...unfortunately I live 200 miles from any Arc dealer, and none of them will respond to my emails, or get information for me. So those dealers won't get my business, guess I'll have to expand my dealer search or private.


Call Arc and tell them your closest deal is 200 miles away and they will work with you.


----------



## BuickGN

So, I believe Pascal has successfully used the PS8 with an iPad??? I think that will be in the near future for me, I can't stand having a huge laptop, it just doesn't fit anywhere while I'm tuning. One of these tablets would be very convenient. Plus I want to buy a Mac and I read the PS8 is not compatible so this would be a good solution where I can have the laptop I want and still have something physically smaller to run the PS8 on. I had a blast tuning tonight but I know I'm going to end up with dents and scratches in the car from the laptop along with a broken USB port.


----------



## oca123

*YOU CANNOT USE AN IPAD TO TUNE THE PS8* using the software provided by Arc.

Sorry, I had to make that clear; I'd hate to see someone go out and buy an iPad and find out they can't install the PS8 software on it.
You could hook up a laptop, or a home computer, to the PS8 via USB, and use an iPad to control that computer via VNC or something.

If you're worried about the USB port, you can make a loop in your USB cord. a few inches away from the computer, then run a zip tie through that and thorugh the kensington security slot (most laptops have this) - that way, all of the stress happens in that location.

I used a Windows 7 Tablet PC. The one I have is a Samsung Slate (I love that thing)
I have a small bluetooth keyboard (handheld) so I can use the arrow buttons to fine tune things.


----------



## invictuz

quality_sound said:


> He's the only person I know of that's gotten it to do anything but work perfectly. I'm sure it's something simple. Knowing what won't get it to shut down I am sure this is a simple fix.[/


*Let me start with "my PS8 is functioning properly right now".*



I got mine on Tuesday.
I still had some odds and ends to do in my trunk so was up till 2am Tuesday then again Wednesday.
Thursday morning i had the PS8 integrated with my car audio.
After getting through some minor issues like:
"passwords dont match" 
"cant find xml" (yeah..cuz i havent created it yet)
default volume so loud i could not turn it up past 2 (normally i listen at 40)

I was off and rolling all day Thursday and Friday...listen to the stereo for about 8 hours total time during those two days.
Adjusting often in search of the eargasm.

Friday night a friend came by so i could help him swap out his door speakers with some i ordered for him.
He parked close to my car in the driveway so i asked him to move my car down the driveway a bit.
He had driven my car before but not since the sound deadening.
This and the stereo coming on made him think the car had not started when he pushed the button (my car has never not started on the 1st push).
The end result was him putting the car in Drive then shutting down the engine.

This caused some odd behavior i can only attribute to the PS8.

A loud (about 3/4 volume) crackling / untuned radio station static sound came on.
With the stereo on or off the sound emminated from all speaker running through the PS8...i have two speakers still attached to the ML amp for my navigation, phone calls and car alert beeps (and the ps8 had no more channels). These two speakers did not make this noise.
No music played and this noise was a constant level.
I had to unplugg both batteries to get it to stop.

Later that night i plugged the batteries back in and the sound was gone.
It has not returned.

However, when i plugged the batteries back in the PS8 had completely reset to factory defaults.
I am hoping this is related to the loud noise and not to my battery being unplugged as i would be a slight pain to have to reset the PS8 everytime it had 0 power to draw upon.

Also, i get an error everytime i try to update firmware but will look into that a bit more tomorrow.

*After 5 days:*

*Pros:*

Extermely easy to configure via laptop.
granular control over nearly every sound manipulating function.
Gave me the balance control over the ML system that AudioControl didnt when summed
Works very well with touchscreen of both tablet and laptop

Cons:

Firmware upgrade error
Weird Reset/loud sound dump during error.
Screen box of App doesnt change
Cant seperately adjust EQ (or i havent figured it out yet...

*Requests:*

Have a highlight or link on hoover over button that gives a quickview of that button affect to sound
include basic instructions even if by saying "remove and unplug center piece and remove decorative metal shell to see layout? (mine came with only PS8, 3 small 3"x4" of paper (warning, instruction to website, and 1 other) , 6 RCA and 1 USB...foam wrap and plastic bag
Make screen size adjustable
Android version of software
Robot technician that can live in my trunk and read my mind

hardware associated to this post:
Lexus Mark Levinson 13 speaker stock stereo 
10 speakers swapped out:
Rainbow Profi 365 w/kick in front doors
DLS 2.5" Iridium 3 midrange in front doors
Focal 165VB in rear door
1 JL12w7 sub
1 PPI a404
1 PPI a600
1 Orion 2500d
Big 3
PS8


----------



## oca123

How are you telling the PS8 to turn on/off? There is a jumper next to the watchdog LED in the center of the PCB board.
Jumper on -> 12V into Remote in on the harness, pin is between GND and Rem Out
Jumper removed -> Input sensing on CH1 / BTL sensing (not bacon tomato lettuce)

To flash the unit, I have to put it in aux mode. using a small screwdriver or toothpick, while the unit is on, push in the button next to the DC barrel jack connector. Hold it in for >2 seconds. The lights in the front should light up and stay lit.

You can then flash the unit. When done, click "Restart PS8" - I then power-cycle it and restart the software for good measure.

The PS8 was definitely geared towards professional installers, hence no mounting hardware, no manual yet, etc. 

I have absolutely no complaints in terms of SQ. With gains matched, my car sounds pretty damn good, so I didn't get too much into the EQ section, but I saw that there was quite a bit of flexibility there. It would be nice if ARC added a graph showing every speaker individually (in different colors) and the result of the crossovers + EQ for each channel. A list of checkboxes for each channel, to be able to display a graph of what these signals would look like when summed, would be a bonus.
What would be nice also, is a GUI editor for the EQs. For parametric, you click a point, then you can drag a marker near that point to change Q.
For 31 band, the window could be split in 31 bands, and clicking in one of the bands would move the slider to the dB value clicked, or right clicking and then holding the right mouse button, then dragging the mouse horizontally, would result in the curve being drawn.
Another feature which would be nice, is a way to switch from a linear scale to a log scale.
I think that's how a lot of DAW (digital audio workstation) software works. They are not designed like this for no reason.



> Cant seperately adjust EQ (or i havent figured it out yet...


 Separately from what? If you mean per channel... then you haven't figured it out yet. There's definitely a learning curve there.


----------



## BuickGN

oca123 said:


> *YOU CANNOT USE AN IPAD TO TUNE THE PS8* using the software provided by Arc.
> 
> Sorry, I had to make that clear; I'd hate to see someone go out and buy an iPad and find out they can't install the PS8 software on it.
> You could hook up a laptop, or a home computer, to the PS8 via USB, and use an iPad to control that computer via VNC or something.
> 
> If you're worried about the USB port, you can make a loop in your USB cord. a few inches away from the computer, then run a zip tie through that and thorugh the kensington security slot (most laptops have this) - that way, all of the stress happens in that location.
> 
> I used a Windows 7 Tablet PC. The one I have is a Samsung Slate (I love that thing)
> I have a small bluetooth keyboard (handheld) so I can use the arrow buttons to fine tune things.


Damn you lol. Do you have any suggestions for a good but compact laptop to run this thing? Mine has a 17" widescreen and it's too large for this application. A Mac is a no go as well, right?


----------



## BuickGN

Now that mine is linked up, it's incredibly easy to use. I was worried with this being my first manual tuning setup that I would be in over my head but in about 3 hours time I've got a much better stage than the MS8 ever gave me and while it needs some eq work overall tonality is great. I could be happy with it as is but of course, I'm sure I'll spend several hundred hours tuning it. I'm still having a hard time with the subs sounding right. It's easy to get them to sound like they're coming from the dash but there's always too much or too little bass depending on what music I'm listening to. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually. I've even tried it with the midbass playing down to 35hz and the subs covering up to 35hz and it still doesn't sound right.


----------



## oca123

BuickGN said:


> there's always too much or too little bass depending on what music I'm listening to. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually. I've even tried it with the midbass playing down to 35hz and the subs covering up to 35hz and it still doesn't sound right.


Asus EEE might work... it worked on my bitone. Too bad I gave it away a few months ago. you could also wait for the remote.... :sleeping: it will come out eventually... and Arc said it will do everything you can do from the PC.

I have that same issue with the subs. Sometimes, it almost feels like a troll is sitting in my trunk, playing with my gain knob and turning it up and down throughout the song. I haven't really looked into what's causing that yet. but i haven't really taken the time to do proper t/a and test various xover settings.

Try shallow slopes on the subs.... like 6db, and a very low xover point...


----------



## quality_sound

Try raising your XO point. 35Hz from your midbasses is silly. I usually run 80-100Hz and have never had that issue with any processor. I'll have to double check with Fred but I want to say his Saturn crosses the subs to midbasses at 80Hz.


----------



## BuickGN

quality_sound said:


> Try raising your XO point. 35Hz from your midbasses is silly. I usually run 80-100Hz and have never had that issue with any processor. I'll have to double check with Fred but I want to say his Saturn crosses the subs to midbasses at 80Hz.


It was just one of many things I tried. I've usually been a fan of higher sub crossover points even with 9s in the doors. I think Pascal is right, a low x over point with a shallow slope might just do the job. Unfortunately I was given a "chore list" and several dirty looks today lol. Probably going to be an hour before I can get to the audio.


----------



## BuickGN

Can anyone tell me if this thing slowly heating up to 145F is acceptable or normal on a 65 degree day? It's in the trunk, eventually going to be moved into the cabin when I get more time but just curious, I had no idea a processor with no internal amps would heat up like this. The car's exhaust does heat up the trunk a little but I doubt it ever got up to even 90 degrees in the trunk.


----------



## oca123

quality_sound said:


> Try raising your XO point. 35Hz from your midbasses is silly. I usually run 80-100Hz and have never had that issue with any processor. I'll have to double check with Fred but I want to say his Saturn crosses the subs to midbasses at 80Hz.


It sounded like he might benefit from a low xover point and a very shallow slope. works well for me

BuickGN, does the device feel very hot to the touch? It doesn't really matter, it's under warranty. When I called Arc and they told me to RMA the device, they said they would be able to ship a new one back to me right off the assembly line.

EDIT: If it gets that hot in your trunk, i guess the next meet will be fun.... your amps will make a fine grill, and your trunk can double as an oven too


----------



## quality_sound

oca123 said:


> It sounded like he might benefit from a low xover point and a very shallow slope. works well for me
> 
> BuickGN, does the device feel very hot to the touch? It doesn't really matter, it's under warranty. When I called Arc and they told me to RMA the device, they said they would be able to ship a new one back to me right off the assembly line.
> 
> EDIT: If it gets that hot in your trunk, i guess the next meet will be fun.... your amps will make a fine grill, and your trunk can double as an oven too


Can you explain how that's any better than a higher XO point with a sharper slope? You don't WANT these drivers to interact with each other because of the large distance between them. I agree it's good to try but I can't see how it would have worked. If this was a mid/tweeter issue I'd agree but not in this case.


----------



## sympley

After reading through all the pages will this PS8 work as an OEM audio integration? Someone here mentioned that it needs a remote to use it as a volume control. The OEM radio volume will not work? 
I want to use this in my 2012 Acura TL with the ELS sound system but not sure if this will do the trick. The ELS is a 5.1 and from what I was able to find out it has 6 channels going from the OEM radio to the OEM amp. If I can tap before the amp in theory this should do the trick?


----------



## BuickGN

sympley said:


> After reading through all the pages will this PS8 work as an OEM audio integration? Someone here mentioned that it needs a remote to use it as a volume control. The OEM radio volume will not work?
> I want to use this in my 2012 Acura TL with the ELS sound system but not sure if this will do the trick. The ELS is a 5.1 and from what I was able to find out it has 6 channels going from the OEM radio to the OEM amp. If I can tap before the amp in theory this should do the trick?


I'm using it in my '06 with ELS 5.1. I'm not sure if the '12s are the same but the signal pre-factory amp is flat, all you need is the front left and right into the PS8 for the basic integration. In fact, you can use the mixer in the PS8 to incorporate bluetooth and navi as well. The '06 has Front L+R, Rear L+R, Sub, and Center with navi prompts using the center, the HFL and bluetooth using the front channels. By hooking the Front L+R you get a full range signal plus HFL and Bluetooth. By hooking the center channel to the PS8 you get the navi prompts. Muting in mine is done in the HU, not in the amp as many people once believed so it still mutes the music for the navi prompts and it now comes over every speaker as does HFL and bluetooth. It basically functions just like factory only better. I'm using the factory volume control with mine.

It's kind of inconvenient right now, to make the simplest of adjustments I have to hook the laptop to it so I'm looking forward to the controller coming out. Today I was in the middle of tuning and the laptop went dead while I had everything but the tweeters muted. I power cycled it just for the heck of it but I was stuck with only the tweeters until I charged the laptop and changed it. Not a problem for most people but I didn't hear the low battery warning.


----------



## oca123

Great post BuickGN. Do you tune with the engine running? Are you doing this outside or in a garage? On the street or driveway?


----------



## quality_sound

sympley said:


> After reading through all the pages will this PS8 work as an OEM audio integration? Someone here mentioned that it needs a remote to use it as a volume control. The OEM radio volume will not work?
> I want to use this in my 2012 Acura TL with the ELS sound system but not sure if this will do the trick. The ELS is a 5.1 and from what I was able to find out it has 6 channels going from the OEM radio to the OEM amp. If I can tap before the amp in theory this should do the trick?


If your OEM system uses optical you'd need the remote, but if not you can absolutely use it for OEM integration. it was designed with that in mind. The PS8 will sum but IIRC it won't de-eq because you're going to eq the output anyway.


----------



## quality_sound

BuickGN said:


> I'm using it in my '06 with ELS 5.1. I'm not sure if the '12s are the same but the signal pre-factory amp is flat, all you need is the front left and right into the PS8 for the basic integration. In fact, you can use the mixer in the PS8 to incorporate bluetooth and navi as well. The '06 has Front L+R, Rear L+R, Sub, and Center with navi prompts using the center, the HFL and bluetooth using the front channels. By hooking the Front L+R you get a full range signal plus HFL and Bluetooth. By hooking the center channel to the PS8 you get the navi prompts. Muting in mine is done in the HU, not in the amp as many people once believed so it still mutes the music for the navi prompts and it now comes over every speaker as does HFL and bluetooth. It basically functions just like factory only better. I'm using the factory volume control with mine.
> 
> It's kind of inconvenient right now, to make the simplest of adjustments I have to hook the laptop to it so I'm looking forward to the controller coming out. Today I was in the middle of tuning and the laptop went dead while I had everything but the tweeters muted. I power cycled it just for the heck of it but I was stuck with only the tweeters until I charged the laptop and changed it. Not a problem for most people but I didn't hear the low battery warning.


That's the downside to real-time changes. When your laptop dies, you're kinda hosed. lol


----------



## BigRed

quality_sound said:


> Try raising your XO point. 35Hz from your midbasses is silly. I usually run 80-100Hz and have never had that issue with any processor. I'll have to double check with Fred but I want to say his Saturn crosses the subs to midbasses at 80Hz.


its not silly if your mid bass roll off naturally 18db at 40hz. adding 6 db gives you an acoustic 24db.

Fred runs his 6's at 40hz.


----------



## pocket5s

quality_sound said:


> That's the downside to real-time changes. When your laptop dies, you're kinda hosed. lol


save early, save often...


----------



## subwoofery

pocket5s said:


> save early, save often...


Exactly what I'm telling my mum to do everytime she works on Microsoft Word  

Kelvin


----------



## bbfoto

subwoofery said:


> Exactly what I'm telling my mum to do everytime she works on Microsoft Word
> 
> Kelvin


OT, but you can set MS Word to "Auto Save" every _x_ minutes.


----------



## subwoofery

bbfoto said:


> OT, but you can set MS Word to "Auto Save" every _x_ minutes.


lol, yeah but she's not so good with a mouse so I'd rather let her save than have Word save it when she just deleted all of her work  

Kelvin


----------



## oca123

pocket5s said:


> save early, save often...


and retire young


----------



## quality_sound

BigRed said:


> its not silly if your mid bass roll off naturally 18db at 40hz. adding 6 db gives you an acoustic 24db.
> 
> Fred runs his 6's at 40hz.


I'm of the school of thought that if you cross higher up that you'll limit distortion by limiting excursion while also increasing volume capability. Both work can work well. 

Fred's car, as you've heard, is a little fat in the midbass. Some of that is a result of crossing the midbasses so low and that extra gain. He knows it. We talked about it at Knowledgefest but he hasn't changed it because the only people that care are judges. Everyone else asks where the bass is when he changes it.


----------



## bbfoto

1. When will the PSC be released (solid date)?

2. What is the MSRP of the PSC?

3. When will the BTM be released (solid date)?

4. What is the MSRP of the BTM?


Until the answers to the above questions are made public, the PS8 unit itself might as well be vaporware _as far as I'm concerned_. I realize that I don't represent all users, but I'm certainly not going to purchase a PS8 until the PSC and BTM are definitely available. And certainly not without knowing my total cost to implement the PS8 into my system(s).

Angry much? LOL, not really, more frustrated than anything else, but whether it was smart of me or not (not!), I held-off on completing a fresh install in my new vehicle by almost 3 months based on the announcement of its proposed release. And now that it is finally available, I'm ultimately not able use it in my system with my digital sources (coaxial and Toslink optical digital outputs).

I'm sure that there are many others that would like the answers to my questions above, so if anybody might have this information, please share it as long as you know it to be accurate.

Thanks for your support.


----------



## quality_sound

So you're only interested in units with controllers, correct? That's fine but did you make sure to post that same rant in EVERY processor thread that doesn't offer BT or a controller? Sheesh...


----------



## BigRed

quality_sound said:


> I'm of the school of thought that if you cross higher up that you'll limit distortion by limiting excursion while also increasing volume capability. Both work can work well.
> 
> Fred's car, as you've heard, is a little fat in the midbass. Some of that is a result of crossing the midbasses so low and that extra gain. He knows it. We talked about it at Knowledgefest but he hasn't changed it because the only people that care are judges. Everyone else asks where the bass is when he changes it.


Fred crosses his mids at 125 

I didn't think his midbass was fat, but to each his own
R u using a ps8 quality? What r your settings?


----------



## nepl29

bbfoto said:


> 1. When will the PSC be released (solid date)?
> 
> 2. What is the MSRP of the PSC?
> 
> 3. When will the BTM be released (solid date)?
> 
> 4. What is the MSRP of the BTM?
> 
> 
> Until the answers to the above questions are made public, the PS8 unit itself might as well be vaporware _as far as I'm concerned_. I realize that I don't represent all users, but I'm certainly not going to purchase a PS8 until the PSC and BTM are definitely available. And certainly not without knowing my total cost to implement the PS8 into my system(s).
> 
> Angry much? LOL, not really, more frustrated than anything else, but whether it was smart of me or not (not!), I held-off on completing a fresh install in my new vehicle by almost 3 months based on the announcement of its proposed release. And now that it is finally available, I'm ultimately not able use it in my system with my digital sources (coaxial and Toslink optical digital outputs).
> 
> I'm sure that there are many others that would like the answers to my questions above, so if anybody might have this information, please share it as long as you know it to be accurate.
> 
> Thanks for your support.


3 months? I have not driven my car since FEBRUARY! i have 9k worth of amps just chilling under my bed since february. Ill be damn if im gonna wait on the controller. From what i hear the controller wont be release until sometime after CES.


----------



## BuickGN

If anyone cares I ended up with a slightly unconventional 100hz/48db on the subs. It was an accident, I slid the sub frequency slider upwards while doing TA and forgot about it. Later as I was listening to music I noticed the sub integrated very well with no more huge peaks or dips in response. I had to go back to check what it was set at. The midbass is still playing 68hz and I just left it there. This is the first time I've had the subs and midbass overlapped. It never made sense in my mind to do this but maybe this is helping with the up front bass.


----------



## thehatedguy

Dunno, heard that Fred's car was a bit thin from 200 and down...just what some peeps have told.me.

And if those are his xo points I can understand.


----------



## quality_sound

BigRed said:


> Fred crosses his mids at 125
> 
> I didn't think his midbass was fat, but to each his own
> R u using a ps8 quality? What r your settings?



I know he does. He doesn't NEED to but it helps keep at much of the vocal range in the 4". 

I'm sure he's changed the settings since KF. I would hope so. It really was thick. 

Nope. Don't have a local dealer so I have to wait for Fred to work something out for me but with his schedule that usually means I'll be waiting a while. lol When I can get one I'll pick one up to replace the 6to8.


----------



## sympley

Thanks guys for the feedback on a acura TL with ELS system. Looks like it might integrate nicely with the OEM radio. There is definitely no optical so I should be good to go. Thanks again. 

I might wait a bit and see what feedback will the new ZAPCO processor will have.


----------



## bbfoto

quality_sound said:


> So you're only interested in units with controllers, correct? That's fine but did you make sure to post that same rant in EVERY processor thread that doesn't offer BT or a controller? Sheesh...


No, I'm only interested in processors that incorporate digital inputs that are actually usable.

Paul, Sorry, I don't care if I'm the squeeky wheel. 

Arc decided to put digital inputs on this unit, not me. Is it too much to ask to actually be able to use them?!?!  ...And to know how much it will cost to be able to use them?

It's like buying a supercar with a top speed limiter set at 90mph. :surprised:


----------



## bbfoto

BuickGN said:


> If anyone cares I ended up with a slightly unconventional 100hz/48db on the subs. It was an accident, I slid the sub frequency slider upwards while doing TA and forgot about it. Later as I was listening to music I noticed the sub integrated very well with no more huge peaks or dips in response. I had to go back to check what it was set at. The midbass is still playing 68hz and I just left it there. This is the first time I've had the subs and midbass overlapped. It never made sense in my mind to do this but maybe this is helping with the up front bass.


Nice. Happy accident FTW! I'll have to remember to try this. Thanks for posting.


----------



## quality_sound

bbfoto said:


> No, I'm only interested in processors that incorporate digital inputs that are actually usable.
> 
> Paul, Sorry, I don't care if I'm the squeky wheel.
> 
> Arc decided to put digital inputs on this unit, not me. Is it too much to ask to be able to actually be able to use them?!?!  ...And to know how much it will cost to be able to use them?
> 
> It's like buying a supercar with a top speed limiter set at 90mph. :surprised:


I don't care if you're the squeaky wheel but you're acting like this isn't exactly how every other unit with optical inputs works. Seems odd to single this one out.


----------



## bbfoto

nepl29 said:


> 3 months? I have not driven my car since FEBRUARY! i have 9k worth of amps just chilling under my bed since february. Ill be damn if im gonna wait on the controller. From what i hear the controller wont be release until sometime after CES.


[email protected], I hope that's not your daily driver!  And if I spent 9k on amps, I think I would have bought a dbx Driverack 480 by now and paid Kirk and Steve to install and tune it for me! 

Thanks for the heads-up on the release of the controller. Hope you get your car up and running soon.

Although I would never consider myself in the same knowledge-of-car-audio league as the "others", I have long considered changing my user name to "the3rdhatedguy", LOL.


----------



## bbfoto

quality_sound said:


> I don't care if you're the squeaky wheel but you're acting like this isn't exactly how every other unit with optical inputs works. Seems odd to single this one out.


Lord knows I've been wrong before, but I think just about every other processor with digital inputs (from a car audio mfg) has a controller/volume control available in order to use the digital inputs. The 6-to-8 didn't initially but there was a DIY solution, or was that the P&C/DSP? You see, brain farts are my specialty. 

This processor looks to be the shizznit, I'd really like to use it, and it will fit in my particlar install where the others will not.

I'd just like to know when I'll be able to use the digital inputs that are included on the PS8, and how much more it will cost me. That's all.


----------



## quality_sound

Call Arc. They'll know better than we will.


----------



## bbfoto

^ Will do, and will post what I'm told here.


----------



## Gary Mac

BuickGN said:


> I'm using it in my '06 with ELS 5.1. I'm not sure if the '12s are the same but the signal pre-factory amp is flat, all you need is the front left and right into the PS8 for the basic integration. In fact, you can use the mixer in the PS8 to incorporate bluetooth and navi as well. The '06 has Front L+R, Rear L+R, Sub, and Center with navi prompts using the center, the HFL and bluetooth using the front channels. By hooking the Front L+R you get a full range signal plus HFL and Bluetooth. By hooking the center channel to the PS8 you get the navi prompts. Muting in mine is done in the HU, not in the amp as many people once believed so it still mutes the music for the navi prompts and it now comes over every speaker as does HFL and bluetooth. It basically functions just like factory only better. I'm using the factory volume control with mine.
> 
> It's kind of inconvenient right now, to make the simplest of adjustments I have to hook the laptop to it so I'm looking forward to the controller coming out. Today I was in the middle of tuning and the laptop went dead while I had everything but the tweeters muted. I power cycled it just for the heck of it but I was stuck with only the tweeters until I charged the laptop and changed it. Not a problem for most people but I didn't hear the low battery warning.


I am pretty sure the signal from the front l/r is not full range, I think they go from 40 or 50 and up. I could be remembering incorrectly, but there wasa guy on here named VP Electricity that tested them on an els tsx. He had a site, oeinterface.com, or something like that. Bottom line, I think you need to run the sub out too. I did not have to run my sub with the ms8 because Andy W said the ms8 would "take care of anything missing" or something like that. 

The sub was not so boomy without the sub input. Anyway, with the zapco, I have to run the sub.


----------



## t3sn4f2

Gary Mac said:


> I am pretty sure the signal from the front l/r is not full range, I think they go from 40 or 50 and up. I could be remembering incorrectly, but there wasa guy on here named VP Electricity that tested them on an els tsx. He had a site, oeinterface.com, or something like that. Bottom line, I think you need to run the sub out too. I did not have to run my sub with the ms8 because Andy W said the ms8 would "take care of anything missing" or something like that.
> 
> The sub was not so boomy without the sub input. Anyway, with the zapco, I have to run the sub.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/11912-acura-tsx-stock-headunit-measurements.html


----------



## sympley

What are balanced preouts? Do I need any special converters to connect that to the PS8? I thought I could tap into the preamp signal from the OEM deck directly and send that signal to PS8.


----------



## quality_sound

You can. Just wire it up and go.


----------



## BuickGN

Gary Mac said:


> I am pretty sure the signal from the front l/r is not full range, I think they go from 40 or 50 and up. I could be remembering incorrectly, but there wasa guy on here named VP Electricity that tested them on an els tsx. He had a site, oeinterface.com, or something like that. Bottom line, I think you need to run the sub out too. I did not have to run my sub with the ms8 because Andy W said the ms8 would "take care of anything missing" or something like that.
> 
> The sub was not so boomy without the sub input. Anyway, with the zapco, I have to run the sub.


The stock amp might have a highpass but the only inputs I have going into the PS8 at this point are the front left and right straight from the HU. I accidentally played a 10hz test tone last night at pretty high volume so it definitely goes all the way down.

How are those speakers working out for you?


----------



## thehatedguy

Let me ask you guys who have used it and the software, are the parametric eq true parametric or paragraphic? Can you put bands anywhere you want? Say one on top of the other or 1 Hz apart, or are you limited to set bands?


----------



## quality_sound

I know with the crossover you can and I'm almost positive you can with the PEQ as well. I'll look at it when I get home but I'm almost certain you can.


----------



## thehatedguy

Cool. Didn't know if I wanted to do a cut at 201 and a boost at 202 if I could. The other parametrics seem more like paragraphic eqs.


----------



## oca123

There you go. Sorry about the sloppy red marker. The mouse I'm using sucks.
I applied boost at 203, and cut at 202, with a Q of 4-ish











NOTE: I don't have the PS8 here to test, since I sold it, but I'm sure that should sync up with it.


EDIT: I also tried this with the RF 3sixty.3 software, and you can do it as well.


----------



## ErinH

Can do the same with the mosconi.


----------



## thehatedguy

You can with the mosconi too?


----------



## oca123

thehatedguy said:


> The other parametric*s* seem more like paragraphic eq*s*.


So... which ones? The Alpine H800 lets you change the frequency too. EDIT: am 90% sure. I'd have to double check but I don't have it here atm


----------



## ErinH

The alpine allows you to pick between set frequencies depending on which band. You can't freely set any frequency. Unless something's changed since I used it.


----------



## Gary Mac

BuickGN said:


> The stock amp might have a highpass but the only inputs I have going into the PS8 at this point are the front left and right straight from the HU. I accidentally played a 10hz test tone last night at pretty high volume so it definitely goes all the way down.
> 
> How are those speakers working out for you?


Ok, I must have gotten it confused with the fact amp. 

I have not even gotten to put them in yet! I think I'll have the last piece needed for my truck tomorrow, then I have to see when mic's available.


----------



## quality_sound

bikinpunk said:


> The alpine allows you to pick between set frequencies depending on which band. You can't freely set any frequency. Unless something's changed since I used it.


Nope, you're correct. Standard 31-band spacing on the Alpine.


----------



## ErinH

I mean on the parametric. You can stack bands but the frequencies within those bands are fixed values you choose between. IOW, you can't type in any frequency you want. 

Just making sure we're talking about the same thing.


----------



## quality_sound

I'm pretty sure even those are standard 31-band frequencies. I deleted my digital copy of the manual yesterday so I can't look quickly but I'm almost certain those are the frequencies.


----------



## ErinH

They may be. I just wanted to make it clear that I was talking about the p-EQ bands being fixed to some degree. Definitely not as flexible as the other options out there. Sucks, too. Would be a killer setup otherwise.


----------



## quality_sound

TBH, I don't think it really matter THAT much. I mean, it we want the cut/boost to be *exactly* at the right place, but I wonder how audible that difference would be.


----------



## oca123

Do any of you guys ever actually need to change the frequency when using the p-eq?
I like to know that the ability to do it is there, but when tuning manually, I've never really had to use the P-eq.... unless I was entering a list of EQ points calculated by REW after running measurements...


----------



## Mic10is

oca123 said:


> Do any of you guys ever actually need to change the frequency when using the p-eq?
> I like to know that the ability to do it is there, but when tuning manually, I've never really had to use the P-eq.... unless I was entering a list of EQ points calculated by REW after running measurements...


as someone who thought the same way for years and swore by graphic being the only thing needed--I will say that having the ability to make adjustment to whatever frequency needed, adjusting the Q etc...is an invaluable tool.

example--Mark Elderidge was helping me tune at finals a few weeks ago and was a very slight bloom on the 3rd stand up bass note of the 3rd set of notes on Spanish Harlem. using Erin's True RTA which I think is in 1/24 or 1/12octave--We identified that the note was 106hz.
So we were able to target that specific frequency with a pretty steep Q and some cuts.
simply cutting 100hz removed other information like some of the boom of Kick drums etc...

So having the right tools to use other tools you have is crucial. If I would have just used my 1/3 Audio Control RTA , Then Id have gotten it close..but having a finer resolution made targeting specific things much easier without removing or adding to the whole.
Then having the ability to actually make those adjustments was key.


----------



## ErinH

oca123 said:


> Do any of you guys ever actually need to change the frequency when using the p-eq?
> I like to know that the ability to do it is there, but when tuning manually, I've never really had to use the P-eq.... unless I was entering a list of EQ points calculated by REW after running measurements...


One word: modes.


----------



## ErinH

bikinpunk said:


> One word: modes.


here's an example of what I'm talking about.

I measured 3 different subwoofer locations from the driver's seat. The goal here was to find common occurrences in the system response. This would be a good indicator of modal issues in the car. 

So, I measured and got this:










You see a few similarities between the 3 curves. These similarities being a small bump around 43hz, a bump around 53hz, a strong dip at about 65hz, and strong instances of resonance at 188hz and 240hz and a few ripples in response here and there. From my own experience in my own car, I know these are modal issues. Some of them are exacerbated by the dip next to them (such as the 65hz and 178hz dip) and the Q of the enclosure has to be considered (thus a ground plane measurement was done but not included).

These measurements were performed with a resolution of 1/24 octave. This is approximately a Q of 35. Most graphic EQs are only 1/3 octave, fixed, which is a Q of about 4.3. 

The problem not only lies in the *fixed* portion of graphic EQs but the resolution of that fixed frequency itself. Here I've taken one of the above graphs and compared it at 1/3 and 1/24 octave so you can see how they differ.










Where the 1/3 octave results appear to not be bad, compared against the 1/24 you can see that 1/3 octave resolution doesn't tell the whole story. It's not showing the bump at 43hz, 53hz, and 188hz. Some may say this doesn't really mean much because it may look worse than it is. That's true... higher resolution sometimes means only more headaches. This is why I started with multiple measurements over a wide area in the car. But, even then, a few FR graphs may not be enough. This is where a time vs frequency vs dB plot comes in handy. These kind of plots, known as waterfall or CSD, are simply frequency response over time. Just adding a 3rd dimension to our measurements. This allows you to see how the response decays over time and if there are areas where the response doesn't decay like you would want. 

Here is the 1/3 smoothed CSD:










Here is the 1/24 octave smoothed CSD:










It's easy to spot the problem areas here because you can see, as time continues, these problem frequencies mentioned above are much more pronounced in 1/24 resolution and are hardly decreasing in SPL over time. This is poor decay and a clear pointer to room modes and settling time of the response in the room.


So, to answer the question of why you would want or how you would use a parametric EQ, look at the above. If you don't have the space in the car to build a helmholtz resonator (or five or six) to mechanically dampen these room modes, the next best thing is to use a parametric EQ with the ability to set Q and frequency. You can go, type in the frequency you want, set the bandwidth (Q) to what you need and then attenuate that frequency to the desired amount. I've used very narrow Q values (40) to lower Q values (10) to target modes. What you end up with - if you do it right - is a very nice low end response that doesn't bloom or ring with bass notes. You simply can't achieve this with a graphic EQ. You wind up cutting multiple bands to even slightly diminish the modal effect. All at the cost of removing information you don't want to (ie: cutting 63 and 80hz to remove bloom at 70hz also results in losing low end kick). A few well placed bands of parametric will bring a system to life like never before. Thus, I'm a huge proponent of them. It drives me nuts when people have these kind of abilities in their DSP and don't use them. They're missing out on so much.


----------



## Mic10is

^^^^^^^

What the Rocket Scientist Said


----------



## oca123

I had no idea you could fix room modes using a parametric EQ. Now that you mention it, I've also read somewhere that a hole in f/r in door midbass could be tackled with a p-eq.
I'll have to read about that. I've only used p-eq in a studio setting to shape sounds or as a special effect on vocals. I always thought the human ear had more or less a 1/3 octave accuracy. 
Hmm, I know there are 12 chromatic notes per octave, so each band covers 4 notes... I can't imagine a speaker could have more than a 6db difference within 4 notes maybe, unless the issue is caused by cancellation, but then wouldn't trying to e-q it out make it worse? I guess I need to go do some reading 


EDIT: just saw Erin's post above... thanks for posting that, I'll read it in the morning


----------



## bbfoto

^^Agreed, Mic. Good chit, man!...and your post as well regarding tuning your car at finals. 

Erin, REALLY appreciate you taking the time to put that post together...in layman's terms and complete with graphs, to expand on what Mic had posted. I'd like to see these posts compiled with other similar posts into a concise "step-by-step" tuning tutorial and stickied.  It's always nearly impossible to remember where all of these random little "nuggets of wisdom" posts are after a month or two later.


----------



## ErinH

bbfoto said:


> I'd like to see these posts compiled with other similar posts into a concise "step-by-step" tuning tutorial


man, I'm working on it. it hasn't even gotten off the ground yet and it's been a PITA.


there's a lot of really good How To Tune tutorials but it's almost always in text-only format. I'm shooting for a more multimedia way of presenting it. Maybe I'll be done next year.


----------



## oilman

Thanks Erin, My PS8 showed up yesterday and this will help with the anticipated learning curve coming from the MS8.


----------



## quality_sound

bikinpunk said:


> man, I'm working on it. it hasn't even gotten off the ground yet and it's been a PITA.
> 
> 
> there's a lot of really good How To Tune tutorials but it's almost always in text-only format. I'm shooting for a more multimedia way of presenting it. Maybe I'll be done next year.


I don't mind waiting for it. I've talked to Mark before and as Mic, and I think you've spoken to him as well, can attest, that man is so smart it's silly but sometimes he has a hard time explaining things in simple terms. I really appreciate that Erin. It makes a lot of sense.


----------



## BigRed

^^ mention arrays to Mark and be prepared to listen


----------



## pocket5s

BigRed said:


> ^^ mention arrays to Mark and be prepared to listen


Todd attempted to explain them to me once. Gave me all kinds of links to go and read too. One day when I think I just scratched the surface I'm gonna get up the nerve to ask Mark about it


----------



## quality_sound

BigRed said:


> ^^ mention arrays to Mark and be prepared to listen


Naw dawg. Naw... :laugh:


----------



## ErinH

BigRed said:


> ^^ mention arrays to Mark and be prepared to listen


Oddly, the way it was explained to me was by radar guys I work with. But the application is very similar. When they explained it to me, everything I knew about Mark's setup and some things Todd had been working on just clicked.


----------



## oca123

Ok, slightly on topic because it has the word "parametric" in it - what about parametric speakers? Like an array of piezo transducers... i've seen (heard) a demo of one of those things... imagine a sound laser, you can "beam" sound straight to people... create sound sources by pointing it at walls, etc.
can we use that in car audio? it's too loud when it hits you directly from very close, but you can bounce it off stuff in a car?


----------



## oca123

Erin, thanks for the explanation, I just read it.

I think I used param-eq once, via a free piece of software called REW. Looking at your waterfall plots reminded me of it.
I believe what REW did was allow me to take measurements in the car, average them, and give me a list of EQ-points that I could enter in the EQ (frequency, amplitude and Q) - I don't remember how well it worked at the moment, but it might be worth looking into for:
1) free software to track down and analyze room modes
2) (not sure if it still works) ability to solve and provide p-eq settings to deal with them


----------



## ErinH

Yea. I've used REW quite a bit. The results I provided were done via my klippel.


----------



## ErinH

oca123 said:


> Ok, slightly on topic because it has the word "parametric" in it - what about parametric speakers? Like an array of piezo transducers... i've seen (heard) a demo of one of those things... imagine a sound laser, you can "beam" sound straight to people... create sound sources by pointing it at walls, etc.
> can we use that in car audio? it's too loud when it hits you directly from very close, but you can bounce it off stuff in a car?


This kind of gets in to the argument of using speakers beyond beaming (aka: wideband drivers) vs keepig a good polar. My personal opinion is that beaming makes it easier to pinpoint the source and a poor polar response is less desirable. You lose traits such as depth and width. Sure there are less reflections but those reflections are MUCH easier to pinpoint.


----------



## oca123

Agreed, I was wondering if there was any way to use these in a car, because I need an excuse to buy one 
maybe to beam certain things to the passenger only, or the driver only? like navi instructions, etc.?

or subliminal messages straight into the judge's head ;-)


----------



## ErinH

There are some ideas floating around but I don't want to ruin anyone's work. Suffice it to say, it's always possible to make it work for you. But I wouldn't hang my hat on the concept.


----------



## Mic10is

quality_sound said:


> I don't mind waiting for it. I've talked to Mark before and as Mic, and I think you've spoken to him as well, can attest, that man is so smart it's silly but sometimes he has a hard time explaining things in simple terms. I really appreciate that Erin. It makes a lot of sense.


If I can understand it I can find a way to dumb it down more than its been dumbed down for me to understand

or I'll rephrase, I can find other ways or examples to help people to understand. Being able to reach people on all different levels and experiences is the trait of a great teacher


----------



## quality_sound

Truth. I'll give Mark this, he's ALWAYS willing to talk to anyone that wants to, almost indefinitely. He really is a great guy.


----------



## thehatedguy

I think that is why it takes Eric Stevens so long to reply to questions...he's trying to figure out in his head how to explain things.


----------



## invictuz

oca123 said:


> How are you telling the PS8 to turn on/off?


I have it wired for remote (though with my luck its default set to auto-detect and i wired the remote so its unhappy)



oca123 said:


> To flash the unit, I have to put it in aux mode. using a small screwdriver or toothpick, while the unit is on, push in the button next to the DC barrel jack connector. Hold it in for >2 seconds. The lights in the front should light up and stay lit.
> 
> You can then flash the unit. When done, click "Restart PS8" - I then power-cycle it and restart the software for good measure.


Good info, ty.
I am putting together a permanent in-car control solution right now. (have a couple old HP CT1100 tablets laying around so figured one incar and one in garage should keep interface common and small enough to manage)
Once this is done i will flash PS8




oca123 said:


> Separately from what? If you mean per channel... then you haven't figured it out yet. There's definitely a learning curve there.


I wasnt paying attention and made a wrong assumption that each channel had to be check-boxed to properly EQ it.
Each can be done individually i see now.

I still have to hook up my amps to the scope and adjust gain...they are still sitting at about 10%

Will RTA it this coming weekend.

The issue i encountered when my friend shutdown in Drive has not returned.
There is a slight hiss when volume all the way down. Doesnt change with alternator activity so guessing its probably gains not matched.

Have to redo PPI amps shelf 1st...throught i would be tricky and do it in aluminum...this twisted the 1st week and gave me a uneven (very slightly but i can tell) shelf from side to side


----------



## invictuz

ARC Audio PS-8 Training Seminar A Success. - FHRX Studios - Forums - Mobile Electronics AU

PS8 training seminar? 
Bring this to Seattle and i will provide you with a 20+ yr old Balvenie or Macallan!


----------



## thehatedguy

Think there is a software update out.


----------



## Syracuse Customs

Preset with 3 position switch (Awesome !):
http://arcaudio.com/Downloads/Quick_Start_Guides/P1_P2_hardware_instructions.pdf

Firmware Update:
http://arcaudio.com/Downloads/Quick_Start_Guides/PS8_Firmware_Update_Instructions.pdf

Software Update:
http://arcaudio.com/Downloads/Quick_Start_Guides/PS8_Software_update_and_installation_guide.pdf

That is all


----------



## oca123

Syracuse Customs said:


> Preset with 3 position switch (Awesome !):
> http://arcaudio.com/Downloads/Quick_Start_Guides/P1_P2_hardware_instructions.pdf


it's the little things.....



> I have it wired for remote (though with my luck its default set to auto-detect and i wired the remote so its unhappy)


actually IIRC mine was set to rem in from the factory, and to enable auto-sense I had to remove the jumper in the center.

The nice thing with 8v preouts is that it makes setting amp gains a lot easier. At least if you use digital inputs.... I can't comment on the analog... I was under the impression that the PS8 also acted as a line driver, but I don'tremember seeing a way to do level-matching of the analog inputs, so I don't see how it's doing it.... can someone test this?


----------



## invictuz

Now that i have had some time to review the software more thoroughly and adjust my gains, the router, the EQ etc... i have to admit i love my PS8.

I had tears in my eyes while listening to a couple different tracks after some RTA'd adjustments.

I heard Macklemore pull his microphone closer as he began "Same Love"
The quick breath intake of Yo Yo Ma "unaccompanied Courante"
Peart pounding out "O Baterista".
Even "One O'Clock Jump"

I am considering a 2nd PS8 so i can completely seperate and control all speakers individually.

After spending a couple hours just learning its functionality it really is an easy to manage solution to the complex OEM design of the Mark Levinson audio of the Lexus.


----------



## invictuz

oca123 said:


> I was under the impression that the PS8 also acted as a line driver, but I don'tremember seeing a way to do level-matching of the analog inputs, so I don't see how it's doing it.... can someone test this?


The DQL-8 had provided a seperate + and - for incoming line connections.
The PS8 provided RCAs with a + and - wire on the other end
These were connected as 
OEM Front Midrange + Tweeter RH -input 1
OEM Front Midrange + Tweeter LH -input 2
OEM Front woofer RH -input 3
OEM Front woofer LH -input 4
OEM Subwoofer #1 -input 6

These routed 
input 1 to output 1 RF and 3 RR
input 2 to output 2 LF and 4 LR
input 3 to output 1 RF, 3 RR, 6 Sub
input 4 to output 2 LF, 4 LF, 6 Sub
input 6 to output 1 RF, 2 LF, 6 Sub


(not connected: OEM Mid/Tweet Rear RH/LH, OEM Satellite RH/LH, OEM Subwoofer #2)
(Connected to OEM amp: Center Channel for nav, phone, voice command)

So to me it was the same as plugging the OEM speaker wire directly into an aftermarket connection as wiring the OEM speaker to an aftermarket RCA then plugging into an aftermarket proc.

Is that what you were asking?


----------



## invictuz

now to see if theres a way to take the OEM digital link connector is slightly different in shape than a TOSLink though they are the same size.


----------



## JJAZ

Has anyone confirmed wether or not the PS-8 can make a center channel output? I can't seem to find any information about it anywhere, apart from a few rumours.

In other words, can it or can it not replace the MS-8 if I want to retain my center channel?


----------



## BigRed

^^ you can get a center channel, but it won't be the same as the MS-8. The MS-8 uses DSP to produce the center information, while the PS-8 will be a mono center (L+R)


----------



## Mic10is

JJAZ said:


> Has anyone confirmed wether or not the PS-8 can make a center channel output? I can't seem to find any information about it anywhere, apart from a few rumours.
> 
> In other words, can it or can it not replace the MS-8 if I want to retain my center channel?


it can do a mono center but not a true center channel like the MS8.
So it can do a summed L+R mono center, thats it as far as I know.


----------



## oca123

^^^ What they said. The twist is, the DSP chip is set up to allow this, as it has an active matrix. I won't get into all of the details but certain ways of extracting a center channel would require Arc to pay license fees, and some don't. I believe some ways are already embedded on the chip and can be used if the OEM implements them.

In other words, not like the MS8 center channel, but they could add it via a firmware update if they wanted to. And it would be easy because the algorithms are already there.

----

As to the line driver stuff - can the PS8 increase the voltage of the signal it is being fed, when using analog inputs? For example, if fed 1Vrms into its RCAs, will it put out 1Vrms, or does it amplify the signal?
sound_quality says that it is a unity gain setup, so what comes in is what comes out... but I'm not sure how that works when:
- Using speaker inputs, at say 14Vrms. Obviously the PS8 reduces the voltage.
- Using a weak input signal... like 0.5Vrms. The PS8 has to increase this, otherwise, you would have to set your gains to match, and if you were to switch to digital input/optical in, all of a sudden you've be sending 8Vrms into your amps
- Using a healthy head unit signal, and then switching to Aux in to feed an iPod, which is <1Vrms i think.

But, I don't recall a screen to setup sensitivity for the PS8's inputs. Also, their website says that you are downloading "setup tracks" but I don't see none 

So, how does it all work?


----------



## oca123

invictuz said:


> now to see if theres a way to take the OEM digital link connector is slightly different in shape than a TOSLink though they are the same size.


Yea, cut it, there's your optical fiber, then feed it into a toslink connector, and you're done. If the signal is spdif, it will work, if not, then tough luck.
FYI I have cut an optical cable before, then fed the optical fiber directly into the toslink input of a sound card, and used some play dough to kinda keep it in there... worked fine 

There are some tutorials online on how to do this. Here http://www.minidisc.org/tos2mini/toshack.html


----------



## Richericks

Been having issues with noise from my Bit Ten. It has been sent it for repair. If it comes back and there's not much improvement, I'm looking for a new processor. 

How much, given the cost of the unit, will the PS8 be of a benefit to me? I'm running my HAT Clarus active and a sub. Doors deadened and all that. Do you think the PS8 is overkill for my system? Again, given the cost.

Second option is a Helix P-DSP. Possibly 3sixty.3.


----------



## ErinH

oca123 said:


> As to the line driver stuff - *can the PS8 increase the voltage of the signal it is being fed, when using analog inputs?* For example, if fed 1Vrms into its RCAs, will it put out 1Vrms, or does it amplify the signal?
> sound_quality says that it is a unity gain setup, so what comes in is what comes out... but I'm not sure how that works when:
> - Using speaker inputs, at say 14Vrms. Obviously the PS8 reduces the voltage.
> - Using a weak input signal... like 0.5Vrms. The PS8 has to increase this, otherwise, you would have to set your gains to match, and if you were to switch to digital input/optical in, all of a sudden you've be sending 8Vrms into your amps
> - Using a healthy head unit signal, and then switching to Aux in to feed an iPod, which is <1Vrms i think.
> 
> But, I don't recall a screen to setup sensitivity for the PS8's inputs. Also, their website says that you are downloading "setup tracks" but I don't see none
> 
> So, how does it all work?


yes. My deck does about 4v and it boosted it to 8.5v as shown below. There's 25dB of digital gain available, IIRC. This can be done either through input gain or output gain sliders. But, the bottom line is that any combination could only go above xdB. I can't recall the exact number with my setup, but I think it was around 7dB of gain to get the max unclipped output. This means that I could do 7dB at the input, 7dB at the output, or a combination of input/output gain totaling 7dB.




bikinpunk said:


> I get a solid 8.5v out before clipping at 0dB.


----------



## thehatedguy

How is that considered a unity gain product?


----------



## DevilSun

I received my PS8 the other day from OCA. The work to my truck isn't done yet so it's not quite ready to go in yet unfortunately...and weather the weather is not being so helpful right now so I'm not sure when I'll be able to start using it. Sooner than later would be my preference obviously, this has been a long project with my truck.

On the software front, I'm very pleased with the UI and depth of functionality and configurability of the product. Very much so indeed, and I design and write software for a living. I know it won't be everyone's cup of tea, and it won't meet everyone's needs as there are no Android or Apple integration solutions, but that's the nature of the beast that I deal with daily so I don't blame them nor do I see it as a problem since I'm not in of those "A" camps. I would like to see and hopefully help out on a windows phone interface, even if it's as simple as changing profiles via bluetooth but time will tell if that's even needed with the new laptops and tablets coming out or the recent released specs on switching profiles with a ground toggle.

Lastly, when I got the device earlier this week, I of course wanted to hook it up away right away to my computer. I spoke with Brad at Arc tech support, and he was quite helpful in getting it up and running for me using the DC barrel jack, and it's obviously very easy to do. You need to jumper the 2nd and 3rd items on the plug, from the right (closest to DC barrel jack) - from memory I believe this to be the 12V+ (2nd from right), and REM IN (3rd from right) so that it will trigger to turn on. Lastly of course you need a 120V AC to 12V DC converter. Brad said he uses a 1A size at his desk for testing and development, I believe I tried a 0.5A and it didn't work, but a 2A worked just fine. Lit right up like a blue christmas tree of digital audio signal processing love. Thought that might be helpful to some of you.


----------



## ErinH

thanks for the info on using it via DC. makes sense.


----------



## oca123

A wall wart rated at 1amp I had was not enough, but a 2 amp brick worked for me.

I didnt think it was a unity gain device either, but I was told that it was by someone and had to check.

I got the 3sixty.3 to sound very good, but there are quirks with the software that are annoying, like no phase control (at all... invert phase just results in a beep and channels get muted) and just as with the bitone, bandpass slopes need to be identical on each side. you could use EQ to get around that, kind of, but....

DevilSun, I too have a background in software, and I would never release software like the PS8's GUI.... but theaen again, it works, so what the heck. There are many things that I have noticed about the PS8. A lot of it has to do with the marketing, and the hype-building, and that stuff is dear to me because it is the reason why I got interested in car audio to begin with (when I bought my first amp, and saw Watts RMS....)
The serial number stuff? please. I dont know who they're trying to scare.
It definitely looks like they tried to make a processor that would be ahead of the competition, but what ended up happening, is best summarized with a french saying that goes "peter plus haut que son cul" (I will let subwoofery translate this one )
I applaud the effort, and I like the product. The software is sloppy as it is, but all of the competitors using the same chip are plagued with issues, so I guess the PS8 is doing pretty good.
I feel that their marketing is straight up disrespectful.

Here is some cool stuff I found a while back. I never got to test it, because I found it after I shipped the PS8 out to DevilSun, while I was poking around to help a forum member. I hope I don't get banned for this, I don't know how diyma works. There's more, but it's not very relevant. I'll say this though... we might have to wait a few months for the remote. In the meanwhile, there is a way to rig something up that would do what the 3sixty.3's remote does (profile switching, master gain/volume, and sub gain/volume) but not sure if it's worth the time.
here goes. i hope this doesn't result in drama:
[removed]


----------



## quality_sound

According to Fred and everything I've ever heard him say about the PS8, even at the initial training at Knowledgefest is that it's a unity gain structure. 

Apparently that's incorrect.


----------



## ErinH

oca123 said:


> DevilSun, I too have a background in software, and I would never release software like the PS8's GUI.... but then again, it works, so what the heck. There are many things that I have noticed about the PS8. A lot of it has to do with the marketing, and the hype-building, and that stuff is dear to me because it is the reason why I got interested in car audio to begin with (when I bought my first amp, and saw Watts RMS....)
> The serial number stuff? please. I dont know who they're trying to scare.
> It definitely looks like they tried to make a processor that would be ahead of the competition, but what ended up happening, is best summarized with a french saying that goes "peter plus haut que son cul" (I will let subwoofery translate this one )
> I applaud the effort, and I like the product. The software is sloppy as it is, but all of the competitors using the same chip are plagued with issues, so I guess the PS8 is doing pretty good.
> I feel that their marketing is straight up disrespectful.


This is the one thing in audio that I truly is subjective and is likely extremely hard to objectively quantify. Personally, I've used every car audio DSP released over the past few years (except the RF 360.*2*) and I prefer the PS8's layout over them all. One exception I would personally make is that I like how the Helix software lays out the T/A screen for all the channels on one screen. The 6to8, and H990 software did the same as well. I like this a lot. The one thing I really, really like about the PS8 is it allows you to mute any channel from any screen. When tuning and trying to balance, this is a very nice feature to have. 

I encourage folks to download software of DSPs they are considering and play with that. While a few minutes won't tell you everything, it will help you get an idea of the features and the interface and most companies allow you to download the software for free.


I plan to do a pretty extensive review on the PS8 at some point. I've just got a lot of other stuff on my plate right now... I've got a servo based home audio subwoofer I'm testing that is going to get the full gauntlet thrown at it over the next few weeks.


----------



## invictuz

The adjustable against, adjusting input and output.
This is where i finally found the clarity i was hoping for...the adjustment to voltage for both input and output, when done correctly makes for a beautiful sound.

Both inputs and outputs are adjustable. Between that and the router the PS8 was worth it...all the other features are bonus for me now.


----------



## oca123

quality_sound said:


> According to Fred and everything I've ever heard him say about the PS8, even at the initial training at Knowledgefest is that it's a unity gain structure.


This is exactly what is bugging me about the PS8. Even though it's a great achievement hardware wise, and almost there software-wise, the marketing itself is terrible, and most of it is due from lack of understanding of the technology and/or bad communication from the tech and marketing sides of their operation


----------



## invictuz

oca123 said:


> Yea, cut it, there's your optical fiber, then feed it into a toslink connector, and you're done. If the signal is spdif, it will work, if not, then tough luck.
> FYI I have cut an optical cable before, then fed the optical fiber directly into the toslink input of a sound card, and used some play dough to kinda keep it in there... worked fine
> 
> There are some tutorials online on how to do this. Here DIY square to miniplug TOSlink


It is SPDIF...the Mark Levinson equipment in a Lexus is made by Pioneer (which is odd since Harmon owns ML).
This gives a Pioneer digital connection which i was about to convert to TOSLink using your instructions until i read the cable seems to be proprietary and the heads on both ends covert the signal...
From the headunit the cable converts an outgoing optical signal to an electrical signal.
At the amplifier end the incoming electrical signal is then converted back to optical. 
To me this seems a bit odd, why not just keep the signal electrical rather than introduce another convertion.

Hoping i can find an adapter from Pioneer that will accomodate this conversion.


----------



## ErinH

A few of us here are familiar with that pioneer configuration since the alpine decks used that as well. Clarion did something very similar where one end was transmit and the other was receive only. Luckily or my purpose I could cut the receive end and mod for toslink but in your case it's not that easy, I suppose.


----------



## oca123

invictuz said:


> It is SPDIF...the Mark Levinson equipment in a Lexus is made by Pioneer (which is odd since Harmon owns ML).
> This gives a Pioneer digital connection which i was about to convert to TOSLink using your instructions until i read the cable seems to be proprietary and the heads on both ends covert the signal...
> From the headunit the cable converts an outgoing optical signal to an electrical signal.
> At the amplifier end the incoming electrical signal is then converted back to optical.
> To me this seems a bit odd, why not just keep the signal electrical rather than introduce another convertion.
> 
> Hoping i can find an adapter from Pioneer that will accomodate this conversion.


You're saying the little connector heads convert spdif to electrical or vice versa? since it's off topic, can you PM me a picture of that cable? I'm curious


----------



## invictuz

oca123 said:


> You're saying the little connector heads convert spdif to electrical or vice versa? since it's off topic, can you PM me a picture of that cable? I'm curious


yes and i just so happen to pull out my canon and tripod to take pix as i dismantled the connector to build put it in a TOSLink head.

Will send you a PM w/pix shortly as i am about to go out and test it now.


----------



## invictuz

bikinpunk said:


> A few of us here are familiar with that pioneer configuration since the alpine decks used that as well. Clarion did something very similar where one end was transmit and the other was receive only. Luckily or my purpose I could cut the receive end and mod for toslink but in your case it's not that easy, I suppose.


I peeled back a fractiion of the tip after the conversion on the recieve end.
I then took a TOSLink elbow adapter io had laying around and disected it.
With the connectors going to the ML cut back and the TOSLink plug cut open i meshed then into one and plugged it in.
As soon as i look up the switch parameters between analog and digital for the PS8 i am going to test it.

There are some incoming wires to the ML control amp i need to adjust from what i have read:
The speed adjustment to volume
The navigation voice prompt
The handsfree sound (i noted this a few days ago...the sound from my auto-prompts and incoming phone calls was very loud regardless of volume from stereo or phone (turned phones in-call volume to 0 and it was still like my wife was shouting at me in person).


----------



## thehatedguy

Eclipse and Panasonic used those 4 pin optical cables as well. Eclipse had a cable for use with their old ddl processor back in the day that had the 4 pin on one end and a regular toslink on the other end. I modded a few eclipse decks to have a toslink transsever and one to have a proper bnc coax termination.


----------



## ErinH

^ yep. I meant to say Panasonic cable. That's the one alpine literally rebadged when they introduced the w505.


----------



## quality_sound

No they didn't. I've owned both. One ingot from you, Erin. The Panasonic cable does not fit the same as the Alpine cable. It won't clip in properly like the Alpine end. That's why I bought the Alpine cable.


----------



## ErinH

quality_sound said:


> No they didn't. I've owned both. One ingot from you, Erin. The Panasonic cable does not fit the same as the Alpine cable. It won't clip in properly like the Alpine end. That's why I bought the Alpine cable.


I was told differently from alpine. I do remember the ends wing different so my choice of words was wrong. But I was told the alpine cable is a Panasonic cable. Guess they just changed te connector design.


----------



## quality_sound

Well it's nothing special there. Pioneer also uses the 4-pin to optical.


----------



## invictuz

bikinpunk said:


> A few of us here are familiar with that pioneer configuration since the alpine decks used that as well. Clarion did something very similar where one end was transmit and the other was receive only. Luckily or my purpose I could cut the receive end and mod for toslink but in your case it's not that easy, I suppose.


Do you recall the model number of an adapter?
I have not had any luck finding one to take the proprietary pioneer tip and adapt it to a TOSLink end for the PS8.


----------



## invictuz

Heres a couple pictures of the cable end that would go into the PS8


----------



## oca123

So if you just take the fiber in there, strip the rest of the wire, and stick it into an spdif input somewhere, it won't work? As in, it's not standard 2 channel PCM on that fiber?


----------



## HIS4

Just picked up a PS8 and I have a question about updating it to the latest firmware. Can I do it with the 12V AC adapter or does it need to be connected to the rest of the system? Seems like if I can do it before it's actually installed in the car that would be a good thing.


----------



## oca123

yeah you can. its 12v dc, i wouldnt use one rated under 2a, and dont forget to bridge rem in and +12v.


----------



## adrenalinejunkie

From Arc audio's Facebook:

"Just another update notice everybody. We have just published another update for the PS8 software and firmware to our online server and website www.arcaudio.com/product-pages/processors/dsp/ps8.asp. 

http://arcaudio.com/downloads/PS8_Setup.exe

Please note that this link has changed and previous links are no longer operational.

This latest updates addresses a couple small issues reported with copying and importing presets, screen stability between user modes and also includes the addition of "Send All" allowing you to now send all three presets to the PS8 at once with starting up the software.

Also I am happy to let everybody know that this will be the last time you will be required to fully uninstall the existing software to do the new install as the new software includes a more advanced version of Install wizzard and will allow for updates to be completed with existing software already installed as well as the ability to repair any damaged software due to unexpected issues with your PC."


----------



## oca123

wow. be sure to take a long, deep breath before attempting to read the above.


----------



## ISTundra

Anyone else try the latest software firmware update OCA posted above?

I installed it yesterday. Had several firmware update glitches ("erase failed") before it finally took. The software froze on me several times, but finally got the updates in and all appeared to be working last night. Get in my truck today... random popping in all channels and a noticeable hiss. Cycling power several times did not remedy the popping issue. Once I connected with my pc the issue disappeared. Anyone else?


----------



## nepl29

i updated mines last night. No issues.


----------



## ISTundra

Haven't had any more popping episodes, but the software still hangs up pretty frequently. I get an unhandled exception error every other time I try to save settings on exiting the program. At one point, when loading a new settings file, I lost all settings stored on the PS8 and the crossover filters defaulted back to all-pass (I have seen this one before). Luckily I had my HU volume all the way down, which is something I've gotten in the habit of doing when making changes to the PS8.


----------



## oca123

AdrenalineJunkie is the one who posted it. Not me


----------



## ISTundra

****. Another day, another popping episode after sitting overnight. Looks like I'll be calling Arc in the morning.


----------



## quality_sound

What kind of popping? Mine has been noise free. If you're getting hiss, check the output level on the PS8 and see where it is. With my input level set at 0dB I have the output down around -15db or -20dB. No hiss. Make sure you're using the input and output level pop-outs. They help a lot. Also make sure that you're not only saving the settings but that you also send them to the PS8.


----------



## ISTundra

Lots of random popping in all channels, not loud, but it's happened two days in a row now since the latest software/firmware update. Goes aways after I connect and either send or retrieve presets from a PC.

Gotta admit, I don't understand what's going on with the master volume level. My inputs are at 0db, at +6db on the master volume, my output levels are approx. -12db according to the output meters. If I turn the master volume down, then the hiss does go away but then the output voltage is less than the input voltage coming from my HU. Where's the 8V this thing is supposed to put out?

I confirmed with my o-scope that the output signal from the PS8 is not clipped and the hiss is coming from the PS8 (reset amp gains at varying master volume levels).


----------



## oca123

I wonder if this would happen with a digital source


----------



## quality_sound

ISTundra said:


> Lots of random popping in all channels, not loud, but it's happened two days in a row now since the latest software/firmware update. Goes aways after I connect and either send or retrieve presets from a PC.
> 
> Gotta admit, I don't understand what's going on with the master volume level. My inputs are at 0db, at +6db on the master volume, my output levels are approx. -12db according to the output meters. If I turn the master volume down, then the hiss does go away but then the output voltage is less than the input voltage coming from my HU. Where's the 8V this thing is supposed to put out?
> 
> I confirmed with my o-scope that the output signal from the PS8 is not clipped and the hiss is coming from the PS8 (reset amp gains at varying master volume levels).


Next time you're in there, go into the meters and look at open the input and output gain meters. The +6 is why you have hiss but I can't imagine that you actually need that much gain, especially with the input at 0. Turn the output gain down and raise the input gain to just below clipping. Now raise the output gains until just below clipping or until it's stupid loud. If I had mine on 0dB in put and +6dB on the output it would be painfully loud. I'm at 0dB input and -15dB output. I'm currently running just a single 600/4 running the components passively and the sub as well. When I add more power I'm going to have turn the outputs down even more. 

I wonder if your popping is related to the gain on the output levels. 



oca123 said:


> I wonder if this would happen with a digital source


Mine doesn't do it with analog so I can't say.


----------



## Richericks

Well, I am not getting pops, but I do have a lovely high pitched whistle that wasn't there with my Bit10. All I did was swap processors. I did all sorts of trouble shooting and thought I had it confirmed that it was the RCAs from the HU. I did a complete overhaul this weekend; all new RCAs (different brand), routed differently. At first, the noise seemed to be gone. Got everything buttoned back up only to discover it was still there.

A high pitched whistle that modulates. Kind of reminds me of wind blowing through the house in a storm. It is there with the car running or not. If I reach up behind the HU and give an ever so slight tug on the RCA cable, it will alter the noise slightly, but it does not go away.

Input and Master out set at 0. Tweeter channels at around -15.

Next step is to put the Bit10 back in and see what happens.


----------



## Richericks

ISTundra said:


> Haven't had any more popping episodes, but the software still hangs up pretty frequently. I get an unhandled exception error every other time I try to save settings on exiting the program. At one point, when loading a new settings file, I lost all settings stored on the PS8 and the crossover filters defaulted back to all-pass (I have seen this one before). Luckily I had my HU volume all the way down, which is something I've gotten in the habit of doing when making changes to the PS8.


Hey IS,
Just curious. Did you remove the old version of the software prior to installing the new version?


----------



## ISTundra

^^yup, uninstalled the old software first

Just got off the phone with Arc. They haven't seen the popping issue with the new updates, but they suggested that maybe there was a glitch in my settings files and recommended that I reflash the firmware and also tweak the remote turnon/turnoff delays, which are stored in a separate settings file. I will try these tonight and report back.

I also asked about the master volume level setting and noise floor issue. Got a detailed drawn out response which I won't try to recap here, but got a few things I will try tonight. Richericks, I'll let you know what I find out.


----------



## BuickGN

ISTundra said:


> Haven't had any more popping episodes, but the software still hangs up pretty frequently. I get an unhandled exception error every other time I try to save settings on exiting the program. At one point, when loading a new settings file, I lost all settings stored on the PS8 and the crossover filters defaulted back to all-pass (I have seen this one before). Luckily I had my HU volume all the way down, which is something I've gotten in the habit of doing when making changes to the PS8.


I had the all pass thing happen too. Luckily, the same as you, my volume was way down. The tweeters sounded kind of funny and there were voices coming from the subs lol. It's not really funny, it could have easily have blow at least the tweeters. I have the highpass filters activated on my amps for the tweeters and mids luckily but they only go up to 500hz. Still better than 20hz I guess.


----------



## quality_sound

Richericks said:


> Well, I am not getting pops, but I do have a lovely high pitched whistle that wasn't there with my Bit10. All I did was swap processors. I did all sorts of trouble shooting and thought I had it confirmed that it was the RCAs from the HU. I did a complete overhaul this weekend; all new RCAs (different brand), routed differently. At first, the noise seemed to be gone. Got everything buttoned back up only to discover it was still there.
> 
> A high pitched whistle that modulates. Kind of reminds me of wind blowing through the house in a storm. It is there with the car running or not. If I reach up behind the HU and give an ever so slight tug on the RCA cable, it will alter the noise slightly, but it does not go away.
> 
> Input and Master out set at 0. Tweeter channels at around -15.
> 
> Next step is to put the Bit10 back in and see what happens.


If you tug the RCA at the HU and it changes then it's the HU, not the processor.


----------



## ErinH

That sounds like a pinched/shorted RCA.


----------



## Richericks

quality_sound said:


> If you tug the RCA at the HU and it changes then it's the HU, not the processor.


That's my thought, too. Just want to rule out the processor, since it is the only thing that changed (at least before I swapped the RCAs).




bikinpunk said:


> That sounds like a pinched/shorted RCA.


I'm going to explore that tonight. I tried being very careful about that during the swap this weekend. But, can't hurt to check it again.


----------



## Richericks

Calling ARC in the morning. Until then, a small update.

Traced the entire RCA path. Only found one spot that was slightly questionable and removed the zip tie holding it in that spot. The noise was still present. I checked the connection again at the back of the HU, giving the RCA a slight wiggle. The slight tug on the cable didn't cause the noise to change as it had before. Perhaps freeing up the RCA at the one spot helped to eliminate the change in noise when the RCA was lightly tugged on. But nevertheless, the high pitched whistle remained.

I took out the PS8 and put the Bit10 back in. All noise went away. I was back to my old pre-PS8 system. 

Does the noise going away by pulling the PS8 out and putting the Bit10 back in actually point to any conclusion? Does it answer more questions than it raises? Jut wondering what else to try. In addition to multiple RCAs, I've tried grounding the PS8 at the amp in the back (currently the PS8 ground runs to the deck).

Anyway, like I mentioned, calling ARC in the morning.


----------



## ISTundra

Calling Arc again myself in the morning. The suggestions given to me didn't work either, and my noise floor is unacceptable still.


----------



## quality_sound

Have you checked the input Voltage switch?


----------



## ISTundra

Input voltage switch? You talking about the one on JL amps? Yes, checked that.

My PS8 is going back to Arc for them to eval the popping noise.


----------



## quality_sound

No, on the PS8. Next to the input RCAs. There's a button for speaker level and RCA input. I was messing around last night and my PS8 doesn't add anything to the background noise until I'm up around +6 or +9 on the output level. Even at -100 I still have hiss but it's from my amps. My guess is it's because I have the gain cranked on the two rear channels that are used for the sub so I canuse the remote gain from the front. All of my other gains are floored and I still have a ton of volume with no background noise.


----------



## lbp775

ISTundra said:


> Input voltage switch? You talking about the one on JL amps? Yes, checked that.
> 
> My PS8 is going back to Arc for them to eval the popping noise.


Any update to this? I'm having the same issues.


----------



## oca123

ISTundra said:


> Just got off the phone with Arc. They haven't seen the popping issue with the new updates,


----------



## oca123

couldnt help it. couldnt even wait till monday morning to post that.


----------



## ISTundra

lbp775 said:


> Any update to this? I'm having the same issues.


Not yet, mine is currently enroute to Arc.


----------



## DevilSun

ISTundra said:


> Not yet, mine is currently enroute to Arc.


So, what was your result of this - get it back yet, or what?


----------



## ISTundra

Nothing yet, haven't heard anything from Arc


----------



## ISTundra

Just got my PS8 back from Arc, will post findings in a few days once it's reinstalled.


----------



## lbp775

That's funny, I also received mine back a couple days ago. So far so good. The weird noise (feedback) I was getting is also gone!


----------



## oilman

I have the machine type noise going on and had tried everything Arc has told me. Plus input from forum members. I can plug RCA's connected to my iPhone and its dead quite. It was dead quite with my pervious DSP. I will try a different HU next. It just seem like if my ps8 is quite through the iPhone it's not the ps8.


----------



## bbfoto

^That seems to point to a problem with the PS8's RCA input grounding scheme, creating a ground loop, or voltage differential through the RCA's ground/common/shield between your HU and the PS8, inducing noise because of that connection (the RCA's between the HU or source and the PS8).

The Key: The iPhone/iPod has its own power source that is not "connected" in any way to the car's negative/ground system, even though you are still using RCA interconnects into the PS8 from iPod/iPhone. Due to the unique connection between the iPhone source and the PS8, the (negative/common) ground from the PS8 is "single ended" or isolated at the iPhone, and has no way to create a ground loop/input differential because the ground/common/negative does not connect back to the car on the source end (the iPhone).

What _might_ change this is plugging the iPhone/iPod into a car charger or head unit that will obviously be tied to the car's ground/negative. Do you get the noise if the iPhone source is connected to a car cigarette lighter charger or to your head unit's iPhone connector (but I'm assuming you don't have this type of connection because you are using RCA interconnects)?

If you don't get noise this way, it may be that the iPhone's/iPod's power system "ground" is already designed to be isolated from the signal output's common (the negative connection on the headphone output). I haven't tested this yet, but have been meaning to.

My .02

Just a wild guess, but it seems like there might be a bad implementation of a diode(s)...(or maybe the wrong part/value utilized/substituted by the mfg?) on the input circuitry...could explain the sometimes temperture-sensitive popping issue as well. idk, in any case, this sucks.


----------



## oilman

This sounds logical^^^. I only have short RCA, and will not reach the front of the car. I have plugged into the Alpine 7990 aux with my iPhone and it sounds like plugging a electric guitar into a hot amp. Tons of feedback and popping, thus not ever doing it again. I guess I could try it again with everything off. I can also pick up some longer RCAs when I leave the office today. 

Other things I've done. 
-New RCA's run around the outside of the car. HU to PS8
-grounded RCA's at the ps8 but not the HU
-run a ground back to signal-ground-in at the PS8 from HU. 
Note: also there is no noise with HU is off or inputs RCA's unplugged. 
-every kind of volume arrangement using both advance mode and standard mode. 
-all grounds are single point. I have tried different location grounds.


----------



## DevilSun

I just got mine back from Arc today, they were very quick to turn it around and get it back to me - can't wait to finish my system up this weekend.


----------



## xpsvwino

subed


----------



## quality_sound

You know if you lock on thread tools you can subscribe without posting "subed"?


----------



## xpsvwino

I do now.
Thanks.


----------



## HIS4

quality_sound said:


> No, on the PS8. Next to the input RCAs. There's a button for speaker level and RCA input. I was messing around last night and my PS8 doesn't add anything to the background noise until I'm up around +6 or +9 on the output level. Even at -100 I still have hiss but it's from my amps. My guess is it's because I have the gain cranked on the two rear channels that are used for the sub so I canuse the remote gain from the front. All of my other gains are floored and I still have a ton of volume with no background noise.


When you tank about the output level, which setting are you talking about? Is it the input level gain on the input settings, the master volume level, or the individual channel output level controls? Or is it all of the above? I just installed mine last weekend but haven't really had a chance to make any adjustments yet. Everything is at 0 right now and my gains on my amps are at min. I did hear a bit of hiss when I tried to turn up the input gain on the PS8 so I put it back to 0 for now until I have more time to play with it.


----------



## quality_sound

Master volume. 

Try this though,
Set your input gains to 0
Switch to advanced mode
Go to the input mixer
Set your inputs to 0.15 on all inputs used
Set Master Volume to +20-22

The PS8 inputs are STUPID sensitive. This brings the sensitivity down and any noise that came in on the inputs.


----------



## ErinH

^ that worked for me as well.


----------



## HIS4

quality_sound said:


> Master volume.
> 
> Try this though,
> Set your input gains to 0
> Switch to advanced mode
> Go to the input mixer
> Set your inputs to 0.15 on all inputs used
> Set Master Volume to +20-22
> 
> The PS8 inputs are STUPID sensitive. This brings the sensitivity down and any noise that came in on the inputs.


So basically what that is doing is minimizing the input sensitivity but cranking up the output gain on the PS8? I tried it this morning and I didn't hear any noise. I think I still need to bring up the gains on the amps just a bit but other than that, it's just a matter of tweaking EQ.

One thing I did notice this morning though is I tried to save the new settings to preset 2 but when I loaded preset 2, that wasn't the settings I saved, then I reloaded preset 1 and all the new settings were loaded. Strange!


----------



## t3sn4f2

Don't forget those muting plugs when checking noise levels.


----------



## oilman

I got my noise issues straighten out.


----------



## oilman

I stopped by radio shack the other day and picked up a GLI, plugged it in and zero noise. By doing this it, pointed me in the right direction. All my grounds were solid from the 7990, but the converter was mounted to a metal bracket via screws under the steering wheel. Once we unbolted the converter from the bracket, the noise was gone. The fix was to isolate between the bracket and converter, then fasten using zip ties. 




































In addition we found the metal on the RCA jacks touching the metal of the PS8 chassis. Wrapping tape around the outside of the jacks seemed to help as well. 










Happy PS8 owner.


----------



## DevilSun

I tried numerous ways to set my amp levels and such and most had a little bit of noise some even had a lot (didn't like that method before I tried it), until I very precisely set the levels on my JL HD amps using a multimeter exactly at the values they said. Now I have no noise at all, but it took numerous tries and I'm sure if I they were just a tad bit hot again I'd have some very minor noise -- the suggestion about setting the inputs to 0.15 and turning up the master volume will be something I remember. It's nice having the three profiles and loading to/from multiple files as it makes doing things like even for testing very simple.

On a completely different subject, the cosmetic top panel (with the logo/leds) on mine has probably been on and off, turned around and flipped over more than most...so I'd just like to warn you all to be _very_ careful with the leads coming off it for the lights. I highly recommend securing them using hot glue or something to keep them from possibly moving at the solder joint to the board - I had two that were just barely hanging on and so brittle that the last strand actually snapped with the tiniest bit of pressure. No worries though, it's very easy to re-solder if need be with a micro solder tip. Luckily most won't be needing to, but it'd be an easy thing to do (hot glue it) the next time you have it off so as to secure and protect them. The unit does of course work without the top panel plugged in.


----------



## oca123

DevilSun said:


> I tried numerous ways to set my amp levels and such and most had a little bit of noise some even had a lot (didn't like that method before I tried it), until I very precisely set the levels on my JL HD amps using a multimeter exactly at the values they said. Now I have no noise at all, but it took numerous tries and I'm sure if I they were just a tad bit hot again I'd have some very minor noise -- the suggestion about setting the inputs to 0.15 and turning up the master volume will be something I remember. It's nice having the three profiles and loading to/from multiple files as it makes doing things like even for testing very simple.
> 
> On a completely different subject, the cosmetic top panel (with the logo/leds) on mine has probably been on and off, turned around and flipped over more than most...so I'd just like to warn you all to be _very_ careful with the leads coming off it for the lights. I highly recommend securing them using hot glue or something to keep them from possibly moving at the solder joint to the board - I had two that were just barely hanging on and so brittle that the last strand actually snapped with the tiniest bit of pressure. No worries though, it's very easy to re-solder if need be with a micro solder tip. Luckily most won't be needing to, but it'd be an easy thing to do (hot glue it) the next time you have it off so as to secure and protect them. The unit does of course work without the top panel plugged in.


I'm sorry :blush:
This is something I'm very bad with. Normally, I immediately hot glue AND heat-shrink all header connectors, and other fragile connection points, because I always end up ripping them out.


----------



## ISTundra

I've had my PS8 back in my install for about a week now. I'm happy to report that the popping and noise issues I had before are gone. I asked for, and received a detailed response from Fred @ Arc about my unit. He said they weren't able to replicate the popping issue on their end but they did find & replace a bad cap, which could have been a cause/contributor to my issues.

I've noticed the new software/firmware also seems to be more stable, although I do still get an unhandled exception issue frequently on program exit.


----------



## quality_sound

That's odd. What does it do even it does that? I've never had that error.


----------



## ISTundra

I have a feeling it's my Windows related than it is to the PS8. It happens exactly every other time I try to exit the program. The PS8 software doesn't crash and I just exit again and it will close normally.

BTW, I am now using the in/out level settings you suggested upthread. Works fine for me, but I do have an audible but not obnoxious turn on/off pop and when I switch presets that I didn't have with the input levels up and the master volume down around 6.


----------



## bbfoto

Any updates on the availability of the Remote/Controller?


----------



## TheBlindMan

bbfoto said:


> Any updates on the availability of the Remote/Controller?



I heard to expect more info summer 2013 and that it'll release in 2013 for sure...


----------



## oca123

Timeliness has not been their forte, though.


----------



## falstaff

.....


----------



## bbfoto

...Sometimes...
















...I just don't understand how some companies stay in business for so long, LOL.

Just want to let y'all know that I'm a very happy Arc Audio amplifier owner. Jus hatin' on the PS8.


----------



## xpsvwino

Does anyone know if the sound quality would be better using the 3.5mm auxiliary input jack on the PS8 vs the OEM USB connection?
Specifically with an I-Phone 5 with lightning connector in a 2013 Accord EXL if that matters?

Thanks in advance for your help,
Gary


----------



## quality_sound

xpsvwino said:


> Does anyone know if the sound quality would be better using the 3.5mm auxiliary input jack on the PS8 vs the OEM USB connection?
> Specifically with an I-Phone 5 with lightning connector in a 2013 Accord EXL if that matters?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help,
> Gary


That depends a great deal on the DAC used in your portable device and if the OEM HU receives the audio digitally over USB or not.


----------



## xpsvwino

After hours of searching on this site and multiple Accord forms, all that I've been able to find out is that the head unit is made by alpine.

Thanks for responding,
Gary


----------



## quality_sound

Alpine has made Honda radios for decades but that doesn't help with the question.


----------



## xpsvwino

Excuse my ignorance but do you mean that it depends on whether the Iphone's output is digital or analog or do I need to find out a spec on the head unit?


----------



## quality_sound

We would need that spec on the HU. Some HUs pull a digital signal from the iPod, some don't. Typically, a dock connection is better than the headphone jack but since that headphone connection would be going straight into the PS8 it's a little weird.


----------



## kaflam

Hi everyone! I´ve been Reading this post for a while.
I´m about to receive my PS8 in the next week and will be working with this:
Factory OEM - Arc PS8 - Arc XDi 805 - speakers

But, I really don´t know much about the settings on the PS8 or any DSP, do you have any suggestions?? 

My question is based on the way you suggest to set the input gains, I didn´t know how to do that, or how to set the volume.

I´m thinking on using a software based RTA, SPL and delay to set the general settings, but any help with the rest would be VERY helpful.

BTW from HU to PS8 I´ll be using a shielded-modified twisted RCA cables, using an isolated shield in the cable to connect the shield channel wire from the HU and at the end to ground input. I was thinking also on XLR cable and RCA neutrik plugs but modified RCA cable will go first to try.

Thanks everyone.


----------



## darinof

Any news about the controller release date?


----------



## andrew2944r

Cold morning today 30 degree and started the Tahoe and my PS8 was popping every mid/high and sub hard. I had to turn my HU on to make it stop and now channel one cuts in and out now. Guess I am sending mine in Monday to find out what is going on.


----------



## TheBlindMan

Arc audio posted this on their Facebook yesterday:
.Attention PS8 users-

We will be releasing new updated software and firmware this week for the PS8. This is a huge update with a lot of things addressed that have been reported to us from dealers, customers and enthusiasts. This update will address the several reported issues as well as significant improvements in the efficiency of the processing of the PS8.

•	"Third Octave EQ relative "linked" mode" bug reports 100% addressed
•	Increased resolution and resolved stability of the "Q" in both parametric and Third Octave mode.
•	"Sync From" when in advanced mode retains operation in Advanced mode
•	"Jumping EQ with tuning in relative mode" bug fixed and resolved
•	"Settings reset to default on random and rare vehicle startup do to power voltage variable" bug has been resolve and fixed
•	Input structure of the Codec changed to improve operation for lower voltage source units
•	"Copy to preset 3" reported bug has been resolved and operates normally
• "Analog/Digital selection pop" reported bug has been retimed and the problem is resolved
•	"User profile switch changes settings to default on one preset after fast repeated toggles" reported bug has been resolved and operates normally now
•	"remote turn on/off" timing deviation of .5 seconds" reported bug is fixed and operating normally
•	"Signal delay relative check boxes randomly checked when syncing from PS8" reported bug has been fixed
•	"Signal delay relative boxes checked and non checked box sliders moving and adjusting unselected channels when adjusted after "Sync From"" reported bug has been fixed
•	"Mixer display character readout showing additional character after the decimal point after channel is toggled" reported bug has been fixed.
•	"Bessel "Q" shift's slope in advanced mode not relative to display readout " reported bug has been fixed
•	Improvements in the PS8's main platform for increased compatibility and improved function with Vista, 7 and Windows 8 platforms.
• Install wizard update for easier repair and removal of existing software on the PC
•	".Net Framework 4.0 compatibility updates
•	Addition of "Band Display" on the EQ panel for visual queue for easy reference while tuning and having left side screen orchestration
•	"All Flat" changed to "Selected Flat" in the EQ panel so that only selected channels can be restored to default flat settings allowing the user to not affect unselected channels.



SPECIAL NOTICE ABOUT THIS UPDATE!!!!!!

Please note that in these updates we have changes the structure of the stored setting files to allow for easier loading and operation of the setting files. This was a necessary change. Please note that this update WILL REQUIRE you to manually re-enter all of your settings files. Your adjustments will still be the same as before as the ratios have not changed but the physical setting filed stored on your PC will not be compatible after this update. We do apologize for the inconvenience but we can promise that this will not be needed ever again as this change leaves a lot of room for future expansions and features in the settings files.

Please note after the software update if you attempt to load your settings files you will NOT be able to load the files and your software will display a error code.

We have created a step by step procedure to make this as painless as possible. Please follow this procedure exactly to prevent the loss of your settings and having to re-tune from scratch.

1.	Open your existing PS8 software and load the settings file to your PC (PS8 does not have to be connected)

2.	Select "File" and find "Export to CSV". When prompted to save, select a location on your PC that will be easy to find, name the file and then click save. This will produce a detailed report and manual document that will show all of your settings files. It is easier to print out this file after it is produced. (The file is saved as a CSV file and requires Microsoft Excel to open)

Do note that you will need to do this for each preset you have saved on the setting file that you are working on.

3.	Once printed out be sure to write down your "Master Volume" and "Output Trim" and "Remote On/Off delays" settings as they are not documented in this report

4.	After confirming all settings have been documented correctly click on your computers start and/or locate and click on the "Documents" tab and the find and click on the "PS8" selection. Once selected locate and delete ALL of the settings files in this folder (including "Default") or move them to a new folder located somewhere else on your PC. (MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE DOCUMENTED ALL OF YOUR SETTINGS YOU WANT TO KEEP BEFORE YOU DELETE THEM).

This is necessary to prevent accidental loading of the old and now incompatible settings files and to allow a fresh area for the new software to create new "Default" settings files in this folder.

5.	Follow the steps in the PS8 instruction manual to manually remove the PS8 software via your computers control panel. Remove the software names "PS8".

6.	Visit http://content.arcaudio.com/ps8-home.html and locate the software download link on the bottom of the page and download and install the new PS8 software

7.	Once installed open the software, then click the "X" close button and when prompted to save the file, click "yes". this will create a new default setting file in your PS8 documents directory.

8.	Connect the USB cable to the PS8 and power up the PS8

9.	Then begin the firmware update process by pressing and holding the firmware update button on the PS8 for three seconds. All of the lights on the top of the 

10.	Restart the PS8 Software. When the options box opens up to sync, click on "Cancel"

11.	Select "Help", then select "Check for new PS8 Firmware"

12.	Then select "Check Web for new firmware"

13.	From this point click "OK" and "YES" thru the remainder of the prompts to start the update process. When the update begins you will see scrolling numbers on the update screen. Once the numbers stop (Around 1735) you will be complete. If your screen freezes during the update process do not attempt to power cycle the PS8 or restart anything. Let is continue on its task even if you are not actively seeing movement.

14.	Once complete press "Re-Start PS8"

15.	Now Turn off the PS8 and Software (Do not save the software file when prompted to)

16.	Restart the PS8 and then the software. When prompted to Sync, click on the ellipsis (...) and select the "default" settings file. Then click on "Send All"

17.	Now you may begin to re-enter your settings manually from the previous settings file.

If you find yourself accidently updating your software before you create the CSV settings datasheet or if you are a dealer with multiple stored settings files from various customers. you may contact ARC Audio technical support and email your "old" settings file to us and we can open and create the CSV datasheet for you and email it to you as the new software will not be able to do this process once you change over.

We do apologize for this inconvenience and assure everybody that this change in the setting files leads the path to many wonderful things in the future as well as some of the issues reported by PS8 users worldwide. An update like this will not need to happen again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nickt

Has anyone try the PS-8 firmware upgrade yet? I tried last night but it did not work for me.


----------



## nickt

I talked to Fred and got the upgrade to work now.


----------



## Jachin99

Any word about this Bluetooth module. I wish they would just tell us something, even if they tell me not to get my hopes up


----------



## WestCo

Jachin99 said:


> Any word about this Bluetooth module. I wish they would just tell us something, even if they tell me not to get my hopes up


A birdie told me there will be an announcement this month on a firm release date for the controller and possibly the BT module.


----------



## thehatedguy

Controller? Do they ship with a manual now?


----------



## WestCo

There is a manual online now.
Not sure if it comes in the box.


----------



## PsyCLown

WestCo said:


> A birdie told me there will be an announcement this month on a firm release date for the controller and possibly the BT module.


I think your birdie lied or I missed something.

So been pondering which DSP to go for when it is time for me to get one, was just about set on the Mosconi 6to8 and then my attention was drawn towards the Arc PS8 and I think the Arc may be a better choice over the Mosconi although seems as if there have been quite a few teething issues with the PS8.

What is happening with the pops and hisses on the PS8 units since the last firnware update in December? Has that sorted it out? Any outstanding issues?

Would really like more info on the controller as I think I would like one if I do get the PS8.


----------



## quality_sound

There weren't really any issues with pops or hisses before. The pops were VERY isolated and the hiss was a byproduct of the input stage gain. Both issues were addressed in the firmware update and I haven't heard of anyone having any issues of any kind since the update was released. 

I have a 6to8, my second, actually. I've owned the PS8 as well. The 6to8 doesn't hold a candle to the PS8 and it's not even close. 

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


----------



## WestCo

PsyCLown said:


> I think your birdie lied or I missed something.
> 
> So been pondering which DSP to go for when it is time for me to get one, was just about set on the Mosconi 6to8 and then my attention was drawn towards the Arc PS8 and I think the Arc may be a better choice over the Mosconi although seems as if there have been quite a few teething issues with the PS8.
> 
> What is happening with the pops and hisses on the PS8 units since the last firnware update in December? Has that sorted it out? Any outstanding issues?
> 
> Would really like more info on the controller as I think I would like one if I do get the PS8.


I am moving away from Arc. I will be selling my controllers when they arrive.

It's a good product and the ps8 is great. I just want to try some other things.


----------



## req

ill buy a controller...

i just want a remote for the darn thing!


----------



## lbp775

PsyCLown said:


> I think your birdie lied or I missed something.
> 
> So been pondering which DSP to go for when it is time for me to get one, was just about set on the Mosconi 6to8 and then my attention was drawn towards the Arc PS8 and I think the Arc may be a better choice over the Mosconi although seems as if there have been quite a few teething issues with the PS8.
> 
> What is happening with the pops and hisses on the PS8 units since the last firnware update in December? Has that sorted it out? Any outstanding issues?
> 
> Would really like more info on the controller as I think I would like one if I do get the PS8.


I was one of those affected by the popping issue which seems to have been corrected after I got it back from ARC support. From my understanding, it was a soldering issue in which no firmware update would've corrected. I'm now using a 6to8 purchased from quality_sound (his first one ) and i'm happy with it because it just works. 



quality_sound said:


> There weren't really any issues with pops or hisses before. The pops were VERY isolated and the hiss was a byproduct of the input stage gain. Both issues were addressed in the firmware update and I haven't heard of anyone having any issues of any kind since the update was released.
> 
> I have a 6to8, my second, actually. I've owned the PS8 as well. The 6to8 doesn't hold a candle to the PS8 and it's not even close.
> 
> Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


Great! Now I want to dust off the PS8 in my closet and hook it up again.


----------



## Jachin99

Why can't i just buy a bluetooth module and hook it up to the PS8's input and call it a day. Why would that be worse than waiting on their release.


----------



## Duckstu

So how are these? I'm looking for the perfect processor,.. one that has great DA'a, great pre-amp section, highly flexible,.. great output voltage,.. inaudible noise floor, yada, yada, yada.

I have a JBL MS-8 that I've been playing with. Not too bad,.. but I'd really like to be able to go into the auto-correction files and make adjustments top it after it does it's auto-cal thing. And often it ends up too quiet,.. so even after raising the volume levels to max on both the processor and HU,..there's not enough level, and at that point you start to get hiss. And as it doesn't tell you the relative output levels it's sending to the amps,... you don't know if the lack of volume is because one or more of your amps has the gains set too low.

Sound quality is quite good though,... not stellar,.. but quite good. build quality a bit lacking,... especially the RCA connections that require frequent wiggling when channels drop out.

So how is the SP-8? 
1 Bugs worked out? 
2 SQ great? 
3 Quiet noise floor?
4 Easy to figure out? 
5 Clear manual? 
6 Solid build quality?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## WestCo

Duckstu said:


> So how are these? I'm looking for the perfect processor,.. one that has great DA'a, great pre-amp section, highly flexible,.. great output voltage,.. inaudible noise floor, yada, yada, yada.
> 
> I have a JBL MS-8 that I've been playing with. Not too bad,.. but I'd really like to be able to go into the auto-correction files and make adjustments top it after it does it's auto-cal thing. And often it ends up too quiet,.. so even after raising the volume levels to max on both the processor and HU,..there's not enough level, and at that point you start to get hiss. And as it doesn't tell you the relative output levels it's sending to the amps,... you don't know if the lack of volume is because one or more of your amps has the gains set too low.
> 
> Sound quality is quite good though,... not stellar,.. but quite good. build quality a bit lacking,... especially the RCA connections that require frequent wiggling when channels drop out.
> 
> So how is the SP-8?
> 1 Bugs worked out?
> 2 SQ great?
> 3 Quiet noise floor?
> 4 Easy to figure out?
> 5 Clear manual?
> 6 Solid build quality?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


1) yes
2) yes
3) not the quietest noise floor (at least not for a $1,000 processor)
4) more or less yes
5) yes
6) more or less yes.


----------



## REGULARCAB

WestCo said:


> 1) yes
> 2) yes
> 3) not the quietest noise floor (at least not for a $1,000 processor)
> 4) more or less yes
> 5) yes
> 6) more or less yes.


:laugh: short and sweet


----------



## WestCo

REGULARCAB said:


> :laugh: short and sweet


da truth though...

Well as long as your keep the master volume below -16 or so (+10 being the highest IIRC) it's not terribly noisy. But it's very sensitive, so that's part of the reason.

I would go with helix though, given the choice again.


----------



## quality_sound

You need to turn the inputs WAY down. The input section is more sensitive than anything else available so you either turn down the master volume or switch to advanced mode and turn the inputs down to .15 or so. Yes, it's that sensitive. I see that as a good thing because it means you can use it with ANY source and have plenty of volume. 

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


----------



## Duckstu

quality_sound said:


> You need to turn the inputs WAY down. The input section is more sensitive than anything else available so you either turn down the master volume or switch to advanced mode and turn the inputs down to .15 or so. Yes, it's that sensitive. I see that as a good thing because it means you can use it with ANY source and have plenty of volume.
> 
> Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


*Thanks WestCo*

At the moment I use an Eclipse CD7000 as a HU,.. and it has 8v 10,000 ohm pre-outs,... supposedly the best pre-outs in the industry. Does that mean I'm in the best position to avoid noise as I can turn down the input volume more than most?

But I may change vehicles soon and was thinking about using the factory head unit in the next car. So that becomes an issue again. Anyone here doing that? * How does it work with high-level ins?*

The JBL I have has the same noise issue if you don;t get everything just perfect. Even after many weeks of fiddling.. the system isn't loud enough when I'm playing uncompressed tracks. Fine with the garbage on the radio.


----------



## quality_sound

Duckstu said:


> *Thanks WestCo*
> 
> At the moment I use an Eclipse CD7000 as a HU,.. and it has 8v 10,000 ohm pre-outs,... supposedly the best pre-outs in the industry. Does that mean I'm in the best position to avoid noise as I can turn down the input volume more than most?
> 
> But I may change vehicles soon and was thinking about using the factory head unit in the next car. So that becomes an issue again. Anyone here doing that? * How does it work with high-level ins?*
> 
> The JBL I have has the same noise issue if you don;t get everything just perfect. Even after many weeks of fiddling.. the system isn't loud enough when I'm playing uncompressed tracks. Fine with the garbage on the radio.



I'm not Westco, but you're welcome. It'll work even better with high level inputs since you'll have even more Voltage. The best thing to do, IMO, is to start with the inputs at .15 and the master volume at -20. Then do your tuning. I'll bet you have no issues. 


Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


----------



## coolermaster

Guys, any news of the the controller, blutooth.. ??


----------



## BuickGN

lbp775 said:


> I was one of those affected by the popping issue which seems to have been corrected after I got it back from ARC support. From my understanding, it was a soldering issue in which no firmware update would've corrected. I'm now using a 6to8 purchased from quality_sound (his first one ) and i'm happy with it because it just works.
> 
> 
> 
> Great! Now I want to dust off the PS8 in my closet and hook it up again.


Yep, my popping occurred when the temp was below 70F. My normal morning routine before work consisted of a hair dryer that became a semi permanent device in my trunk that I would plug in for 5 minutes to heat it up to a good 140F before starting the car. The cooler it was the higher the noise floor as well. 

It definitely wasn't fixable with a firmware update. I need to get the update, hopefully it will stop the PS8 from randomly turning off all crossovers and running my $1,900 tweeters full range. I have the tweeter amp's HP maxed out at 500hz so while it's low for a tweeter luckily they're very stout tweeters and it beats 20hz material hitting them but I get sick of getting in the car a few times a year and hearing my subs playing female vocals which is the most obvious way to tell when it happens. 

It also has various bugs. I can't do separate left and right EQ with it to fine tune the stage. Once I adjust it sounds good. Once I turn the stereo off and back on the adjustments go all to one channel and it sounds like ass. 

When I adjust the TA on the subs, if I adjust too quickly I get a very loud hum from the subs which can only be cured by backing the TA off in the opposite direction slowly. Sometimes it doesn't matter how quickly I adjust. I have to overshoot on purpose so I can back them off a few clicks and get rid of the hum. 

No controller yet? Not surprised.


----------



## andrew2944r

BuickGN said:


> Yep, my popping occurred when the temp was below 70F. My normal morning routine before work consisted of a hair dryer that became a semi permanent device in my trunk that I would plug in for 5 minutes to heat it up to a good 140F before starting the car. The cooler it was the higher the noise floor as well.
> 
> It definitely wasn't fixable with a firmware update. I need to get the update, hopefully it will stop the PS8 from randomly turning off all crossovers and running my $1,900 tweeters full range. I have the tweeter amp's HP maxed out at 500hz so while it's low for a tweeter luckily they're very stout tweeters and it beats 20hz material hitting them but I get sick of getting in the car a few times a year and hearing my subs playing female vocals which is the most obvious way to tell when it happens.
> 
> It also has various bugs. I can't do separate left and right EQ with it to fine tune the stage. Once I adjust it sounds good. Once I turn the stereo off and back on the adjustments go all to one channel and it sounds like ass.
> 
> When I adjust the TA on the subs, if I adjust too quickly I get a very loud hum from the subs which can only be cured by backing the TA off in the opposite direction slowly. Sometimes it doesn't matter how quickly I adjust. I have to overshoot on purpose so I can back them off a few clicks and get rid of the hum.
> 
> No controller yet? Not surprised.


I had the exact same popping issue and on a 32 degree day the solder joint actually broke (Channel one). Sent it in for repair, will be installing it soon to see if it fixed the issue.


----------



## WestCo

quality_sound said:


> I'm not Westco, but you're welcome. It'll work even better with high level inputs since you'll have even more Voltage. The best thing to do, IMO, is to start with the inputs at .15 and the master volume at -20. Then do your tuning. I'll bet you have no issues.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


It's not easy being me


----------



## ISTundra

I saw a post in another thread mentioning that the controller (which apparently still isn't out) was going to be $500. **** me, I'm glad I sold my PS8 long ago (which also had to be fixed for the popping issue).


----------



## edzyy

Did arc ever release the PSC controller & bluetooth module?


----------



## captainobvious

edzyy said:


> Did arc ever release the PSC controller & bluetooth module?



HAHAHAHAHA! :laugh:

You've got a better chance of being struck by lightning while flying on the back of Pegasus with Elvis.


Arc ****ed up on this one big time- plain and simple.


----------



## quality_sound

Nope, the controller still isn't available, and I haven't even heard a rumor of an ETA. Also, I don't know where "$500" came from but it sure wasn't from Arc. They only ever said a ballpark number during Knowledgefest when they announced the PS8 and it was well under $500. That said, there is no "official" price yet.


----------



## captainobvious

Indeed. You can't price something that doesn't (and won't ever) exist.


----------



## quality_sound

You seem awfully sure for someone that has no idea what he's talking about. It is still being worked on and it is still going to come to market. Obviously not as soon as we'd like, but it is coming.


----------



## captainobvious

quality_sound said:


> You seem awfully sure for someone that has no idea what he's talking about. It is still being worked on and it is still going to come to market. Obviously not as soon as we'd like, but it is coming.



It's been two years with promises of "soon". How long is the life cycle of a product?

I stand by my statement 

FYI- They've had time to develop and bring to market all kinds of other new products in that time space...yet have failed to follow up with completion of the existing product. That speaks volumes.


----------



## bbfoto

Jachin99 said:


> Why can't i just buy a bluetooth module and hook it up to the PS8's input and call it a day. Why would that be worse than waiting on their release.


Arcam rBlink works perfect for this. Just need a DC-DC power supply/adapter. It has the APT-X BT codec (your source must have it as well to take advantage of this).

When Pascal (oca123, no longer active here me thinks) posted the screen shots of the Firmware & Software code & programming notes (that the mods removed quickly), it was fairly plain to see that it was gonna take some SERIOUS programming work and expertise to implement the DRC and BT. I pretty much discounted the PS8 completely at that point.


----------



## quality_sound

captainobvious said:


> It's been two years with promises of "soon". How long is the life cycle of a product?
> 
> I stand by my statement
> 
> FYI- They've had time to develop and bring to market all kinds of other new products in that time space...yet have failed to follow up with completion of the existing product. That speaks volumes.


Standing by your statement doesn't make it true. 

I know what Arc has brought and what they're going to be bringing out. The controller is still coming out. 



Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

quality_sound said:


> Standing by your statement doesn't make it true.
> 
> I know what Arc has brought and what they're going to be bringing out. The controller is still coming out.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk



No offense but I'll believe it when I see it. 2 years and counting.............


----------



## mmiller

I've seen a lot of people trying to sell them lately. Resale has taken a bit of a hit, but I'm going to hold onto mine for a while... I'm still optimistic they'll release the controller, hopefully sooner than later.


----------



## mylows10

I talked to Fred at arc a few weeks back. And yes there has been delays one being the redesign of the xdi line. Now by Robert Zeff. , but the programming is almost done is what I'm told but still no release date. I'm hoping end of summer mid fall But more likely to be ces next year


----------



## quality_sound

captainobvious said:


> No offense but I'll believe it when I see it. 2 years and counting.............


I agree, this has been FAR too long to wait but saying it isn't coming because it hasn't yet is silly. How long was the MS-8 in R&D?

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


----------



## invictuz

captainobvious said:


> HAHAHAHAHA! :laugh:
> 
> You've got a better chance of being struck by lightning while flying on the back of Pegasus with Elvis.
> 
> 
> Arc ****ed up on this one big time- plain and simple.


Agreed and just checking for word on controller


----------



## oca123

Arcam rBlink? Hmm, could it be used to speak out song names?

Nice to see you're all here.....

Which features do you need to control most importantly?


----------



## subterFUSE

It would be nice to control:

Master Volume
Subwoofer Level
Audio Source Selection
Preset Selection

Basically, all the things that the Audison BitOne DRC does.


----------



## xpsvwino

Just saw this on their site:
Attention all PS8 users,

Effective today the PS8 user software and firmware has been updated with a number of changes and improvements. The software updates are available on our companies website at PS8 Home | Arc Audio (located at the bottom of the page.)

This update includes a extensive rebuild and update of the PS8 software utilities USB stack to correct the issues being created by several PC manufactures and their quick and hot key profile utilities. These "Add-on" utilities are not part of the standardized Microsoft USB protocol and have resulted in reported issues from consumers and installers worldwide. These issues are corrected and resolved in this newest version and now offers full compatibility on all new Windows 8 PC's that whether or not they are equipped with third party USB drivers and hot key systems.

Please note that with Microsoft no longer supporting the Windows XP platform and no additional driver support or updates being offered the ARC Audio PS8 is no longer being listed as compatible with Windows XP platform computers. We are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

Updates include-

1.	Windows 8.1 compatibility updates.
2.	Conversion and update to .Net Framework 4.5 compatibility (Required for this updated version of software and firmware)
3.	Custom USB driver protocol created to assist with interference from third party USB driver.
4.	Driver protocol increases USB processing speed and improves stability for 
5.	GUI resolution calibration for Windows Tablets (Windows 8.1 Pro w/USB connection required)
6.	"Sync from PS8" reported bugs corrected
- User mode recognition correction (Standard/Advanced)
- Master level bug correction
- Output trim bug correction
- Input mode recognition for digital, analog, etc 
- Channel name assignment
7.	"Sync All" hang up if presets are combination analog / digital etc between presets 
8.	Parametric EQ, user defined frequency mis-banding the user defined frequency
9.	Firmware update process update (improved speed of the update process)
10.	Main unit voltage operating range limits (accommodates various applications and installations where voltage is pulled beyond current parameters when vehicle is starting and system is already on from the key being rotated to the ACC position prior to starting the vehicle.)
11.	Updates and provisions in the firmware update system to allow for PSC controller firmware updates. (We will update release information for the controller when it becomes available. Sorry.)
12.	Updates and provisions in the update system to allow for BTM Bluetooth module firmware updates. (We will update release information for the controller when it becomes available. Sorry.)
13.	Signal Meters reported bug corrected.


Here is the recommended instructions to update your PS8-

1.	Remove your existing PS8 software in its entirety thru you computers "Uninstall software" panel.
2.	Visit PS8 Home | Arc Audio and locate the software download link on the bottom of the page and download and install the new PS8 software.
3.	Double click on the setup icon and simply follow the setup instructions while installing.
4.	Connect the USB cable to the PS8 and power up the PS8.
5.	Then begin the firmware update process by pressing and holding the firmware update button on the PS8 for three seconds. All of the lights on the top of the PS8 will be on solid except for the Bluetooth light.
6.	Restart the PS8 Software. When the options box opens up to sync, click on "Cancel"
7.	Select "Help", then select "Check for new PS8 Firmware"
8.	Then select "Check Web for new firmware"
9.	From this point click "OK" and "YES" thru the remainder of the prompts to start the update process. When the update begins you will see scrolling numbers on the update screen. Once the numbers stop scrolling you will be complete. If your screen freezes during the update process do not attempt to power cycle the PS8 or restart anything. Let is continue on its task even if you are not actively seeing movement as it will complete the update and catch up. (This is the PC temporarily freezing, not the PS8 and happens on some slower machines with limited resources.)
10.	Once complete press "Re-Start PS8". If for some reason this does not work turn off your system and disconnect your PS8's power connector block and then reconnect.
11.	Now Turn off the PS8 and Software (Do not save the software file when prompted to). If for some reason this does not work turn off your system and disconnect your PS8's power connector block and then reconnect.
12.	Restart the PS8 and then the software. When prompted to Sync, click on the ellipsis (...) and select the "default" settings file. Then click on "Send All"

***** SPECIAL NOTICE*****
AS PER THE LAST SOFTWARE/FIRMWARE UPDATE THIS VERSION OF THE SOFTWARE IS ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH SETTINGS FILES SAVED WITH SOFTWARE VERSION 2.0.9.4 OR NEWER. SETTINGS FILES FROM PRIOR VERSIONS (2.0.9.3 OR LOWER) ARE NOT COMPATIBLE AND WILL REQUIRE THEM TO BE MANUALLY ENTERED. FAILURE TO DO SO WILL RESULT IN SETTING FILES MISLOADING OR ERROR CODES*****


----------



## Justintime

I am a newbie here so please go easy . 
I bought an Arc Audio PS8 about 1.5 years ago and finally have the time to get around and install the unit about 6 months ago. I have a 2006 BMW X5 , with Dynaudio 340 speakers powered by one McIntosh 406 amp, one 12' W6 JL Audio power by a McIntosh monoblock amp. 
I don't think the stock HU doing the system justice. It has factory Nav and DSP equipped but I found an 0.5V input source that was pre-equalized and tapped in but would give engine noise at high volume + the Nav acting lately so I have been without music for 3 mos now

I was hoping the Arc Audio PS control unit would be available by now still no news so I am wondering if you guys can give me some suggestion utilizing the PS8 and the current set up that mentioned above. Thank you in advance.

Justin


----------



## HIS4

Justintime said:


> I am a newbie here so please go easy .
> I bought an Arc Audio PS8 about 1.5 years ago and finally have the time to get around and install the unit about 6 months ago. I have a 2006 BMW X5 , with Dynaudio 340 speakers powered by one McIntosh 406 amp, one 12' W6 JL Audio power by a McIntosh monoblock amp.
> I don't think the stock HU doing the system justice. It has factory Nav and DSP equipped but I found an 0.5V input source that was pre-equalized and tapped in but would give engine noise at high volume + the Nav acting lately so I have been without music for 3 mos now
> 
> I was hoping the Arc Audio PS control unit would be available by now still no news so I am wondering if you guys can give me some suggestion utilizing the PS8 and the current set up that mentioned above. Thank you in advance.
> 
> Justin


If you have the DSP, I believe you might have the system that uses the MOST fiber optic connection between the HU and factory amp. There is no line level signal to tap out of those units. I know that is the case for some of the other BMWs but not totally sure on the X5. If that is the case, you would need to do 1 of 2 things. You need to tap the signal after the factory amp using a line converter. Audiocontrol has line converters that would work. The other thing would be to use a MoBridge MOST bus converter to get a toslink signal and then send that to the PS8. The second option would be cleaner but probably more expensive.

Check this link to see if the MOST converter applies to you

http://mobridge.us/ap/compatibility/vehicles/1/40/13443


----------



## quality_sound

Actually the easiest option is to have the OEM HU recoded as a non-DSP unit then you can send analog straight into the PS8.


----------



## subterFUSE

HIS4 said:


> Audiocontrol has line converters that would work.


No need for a line converter. The PS8 is itself a line converter. It has 6 channels of high level input available. You just use the RCA to 2 wire adapter cables that came with the DSP, and be sure the toggle for high level input is selected.

Tapping the speaker level outputs from the factory amplifier would be the easiest route. I did this in my 2005 BMW 545i for years via an Audison BitOne and it worked very well. Just be sure to disable the DSP functions in the factory head unit, keep the EQs flat and balance/fader centered.

The MoBridge is the other option, assuming it is compatible with the model of car. They cost about $700, however. I'm about to install one of these in my car in the next few weeks.


----------



## subterFUSE

quality_sound said:


> Actually the easiest option is to have the OEM HU recoded as a non-DSP unit then you can send analog straight into the PS8.


Unless the car uses the MOST fiber optics system. If it does, then you can't get preamp signal without a MoBridge.


----------



## quality_sound

subterFUSE said:


> Unless the car uses the MOST fiber optics system. If it does, then you can't get preamp signal without a MoBridge.


If you convert the HU to non-DSP it activates the OEM low-level outputs. It's been done many, many times. 

The MOST system has nothing to do with the audio output from the HU.


----------



## Justintime

Car audio has come a long way in advancement. I decided to go with the Pure I-20 route with optical cable to PS8 because I mostly listen to hi rez music from my Iphone anyways so this solution should work. Thank you guys for all the feedbacks


----------



## BigRed

Justintime said:


> Car audio has come a long way in advancement. I decided to go with the Pure I-20 route with optical cable to PS8 because I mostly listen to hi rez music from my Iphone anyways so this solution should work. Thank you guys for all the feedbacks



How r u going to control volume ?


----------



## Justintime

Good point, back to square one. I think I saw a coaxial cable that I disconnected from the factory DSP amp. I will look again this weekend


----------



## subterFUSE

AudioControl Matrix Plus could be added after the PS8 for volume control, as long as you don't need more than 6 channels.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

Can't you just use the controller...?


----------



## quality_sound

The controller is coming and it is better that you would believe. The major delays were the XDi amp updates and the PS8 update. Be snarky all you want, but it IS coming.


----------



## ErinH

captainobvious said:


> Can't you just use the controller...?


I LOL'd because I knew you intended this to mess with Paul. I'm friends with both you guys... I'm not choosing sides. Which makes it even more fun to watch. :laugh:


----------



## quality_sound

ErinH said:


> I LOL'd because I knew you intended this to mess with Paul. I'm friends with both you guys... I'm not choosing sides. Which makes it even more fun to watch. :laugh:


I know he did too. I REALLY wish I could tell you guys everything but I was asked not to. The short answer is, the controller will make you **** your pants when it comes out. It's THAT awesome. Erin, you may actually like it! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## subterFUSE

quality_sound said:


> I know he did too. I REALLY wish I could tell you guys everything but I was asked not to. The short answer is, the controller will make you **** your pants when it comes out. It's THAT awesome. Erin, you may actually like it! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


Too bad they're going to be so late to the party.
I already gave up on installing my PS8 and ordered the Helix DSP Pro.

The lack of controller is one reason, although I was considering the Matrix Plus as a workaround. The other, more important reason is that it only supports 1 digital input. The Helix will support 2 digital ins.


----------



## quality_sound

subterFUSE said:


> Too bad they're going to be so late to the party.
> I already gave up on installing my PS8 and ordered the Helix DSP Pro.
> 
> The lack of controller is one reason, although I was considering the Matrix Plus as a workaround. The other, more important reason is that it only supports 1 digital input. The Helix will support 2 digital ins.


Trust me, Arc knows they've lost a few people. That said, they already have a pre-order list that is unreal. Almost all from Asia.


----------



## subterFUSE

quality_sound said:


> Trust me, Arc knows they've lost a few people. That said, they already have a pre-order list that is unreal. Almost all from Asia.



I haven't written them off. Maybe I will put my PS8 into my wife's next car. But their hardware is falling behind while the delay continues.

Will the new controller enable the DSP to accept 2 digital sources? Currently it cannot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigRed

Justintime said:


> Good point, back to square one. I think I saw a coaxial cable that I disconnected from the factory DSP amp. I will look again this weekend



If u only use your phone u could get by with the ps8 optical in. Iphone volume would work I believe


----------



## Justintime

quality_sound said:


> The controller is coming and it is better that you would believe. The major delays were the XDi amp updates and the PS8 update. Be snarky all you want, but it IS coming.


I hope it is coming soon because it becomes a little long staring at the PS8


----------



## captainobvious

quality_sound said:


> The controller is coming and it is better that you would believe. The major delays were the XDi amp updates and the PS8 update. Be snarky all you want, but it IS coming.


:laugh: :laugh:

Just busting stones Paul :thumbsup:


----------



## captainobvious

quality_sound said:


> I know he did too. I REALLY wish I could tell you guys everything but I was asked not to. The short answer is, the controller will make you **** your pants when it comes out. It's THAT awesome. Erin, you may actually like it! :laugh::laugh::laugh:



In all seriousness though, I like its featureset the best. I just couldn't wait 3+ years for the controller. I wanted to use digital inputs and have a decent controller to use but they just haven't been able to get this thing out to the public yet. I like Arcs products and have been a big fan of their stuff for years so it's been disappointing. 

I'm actually swapping out to an Alpine setup for the integration between HU and dsp, convenience and controller.

That said, I am looking forward to seeing this controller from Arc because I haven't **** myself in years.



.


----------



## subterFUSE

captainobvious said:


> In all seriousness though, I like its featureset the best. I just couldn't wait 3+ years for the controller. I wanted to use digital inputs and have a decent controller to use but they just haven't been able to get this thing out to the public yet. I like Arcs products and have been a big fan of their stuff for years so it's been disappointing.
> 
> I'm actually swapping out to an Alpine setup for the integration between HU and dsp, convenience and controller.
> 
> That said, I am looking forward to seeing this controller from Arc because I haven't **** myself in years.
> .


Too little, too late. Their DSP feature set is no longer unique. Many others now have parametric EQ. And the newer ones coming out can support 2 digital inputs (i.e. Helix DSP Pro). Arc doesn't have phase angle adjustments, like the Helix has. And they only have 3 presets available, when the new Helix will have 20.


----------



## quality_sound

subterFUSE said:


> Too little, too late. Their DSP feature set is no longer unique. Many others now have parametric EQ. And the newer ones coming out can support 2 digital inputs (i.e. Helix DSP Pro). Arc doesn't have phase angle adjustments, like the Helix has. And they only have 3 presets available, when the new Helix will have 20.


And none of them have the resolution on the eq that the PS8 does. I think phase angle is overrrated, but even without the phase angle adjustment the PS8 still has more adjustability in Advanced Mode than anything else on the market.


----------



## quality_sound

captainobvious said:


> In all seriousness though, I like its featureset the best. I just couldn't wait 3+ years for the controller. I wanted to use digital inputs and have a decent controller to use but they just haven't been able to get this thing out to the public yet. I like Arcs products and have been a big fan of their stuff for years so it's been disappointing.
> 
> I'm actually swapping out to an Alpine setup for the integration between HU and dsp, convenience and controller.
> 
> That said, I am looking forward to seeing this controller from Arc because I haven't **** myself in years.
> 
> 
> 
> .



I hear ya. Alpine's integration is better than anyone's. If there was a US market D800 I'd go back to that with an H800/C800 combo. I really enjoyed mine. I guess SXM has really spoiled me. lol 

I'll bring the wipes for you.  lmao


----------



## captainobvious

Aren't all of the dsps with "phase angle adjustment" simple 45 degree increments and only on the sub?


----------



## BigRed

quality_sound said:


> And none of them have the resolution on the eq that the PS8 does. I think phase angle is overrrated, but even without the phase angle adjustment the PS8 still has more adjustability in Advanced Mode than anything else on the market.



What does resolution on the eq mean?

What adjustability does it have that no other does?


----------



## subterFUSE

captainobvious said:


> Aren't all of the dsps with "phase angle adjustment" simple 45 degree increments and only on the sub?


Helix DSP has 15 degree increments on phase angle.
I am expecting the Helix DSP Pro to have the same, or possibly better.


As for resolution, the new Helix DSP Pro has:

3.5mm increments on time alignment. (that's .01ms steps)
.25dB increments on the EQ.


Expansion card slots for adding extra digitial or analog inputs, or a Bluetooth streamer with aptX Codec.


----------



## subterFUSE

quality_sound said:


> And none of them have the resolution on the eq that the PS8 does.


Helix DSP Pro has .25dB steps on the EQ. (Same as Arc)
30 bands parametric. (Same as Arc)


----------



## quality_sound

Is the DSP Pro out yet? I thought it wasn't. Also, no one can do TA with steps that small. It's why no one has. If .01 was possible Arc would have one it. Fred, Brad, and I had a pretty length talk about that.


----------



## subterFUSE

quality_sound said:


> Is the DSP Pro out yet? I thought it wasn't. Also, no one can do TA with steps that small. It's why no one has. If .01 was possible Arc would have one it. Fred, Brad, and I had a pretty length talk about that.


Shipping now. I ordered mine already, and it is expected to arrive first week of November.

As for the delay steps, that's what they are advertizing. Delay in 3.5mm steps. It's on their Facebook page.


----------



## BigRed

I've tuned on the ps8 a lot and it's still buggy. To the point of frustration. I just tell it like it is. I've always been up front about it


----------



## quality_sound

subterFUSE said:


> Shipping now. I ordered mine already, and it is expected to arrive first week of November.
> 
> As for the delay steps, that's what they are advertizing. Delay in 3.5mm steps. It's on their Facebook page.


I know what's ADVERTISED. Other companies have advertised it as well. The fact is, it's not possible. 



BigRed said:


> I've tuned on the ps8 a lot and it's still buggy. To the point of frustration. I just tell it like it is. I've always been up front about it


What were the bugs? Mine was fine from day one. It was in two different cars, with at least five different HUs, both OEM and aftermarket, and never hiccuped once. And that was BEFORE the recent update. I would highly suggest doing that update if anyone is having issues.


----------



## subterFUSE

quality_sound said:


> I know what's ADVERTISED. Other companies have advertised it as well. The fact is, it's not possible.



64 bit processor. 96k sample rate. It is possible.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BigRed

Quality maybe u can answer my questions from an earlier post about resolution and what the ps8 can do that no other processor can

I promise I will present the laundry list of problems it STILL has even AFTER the latest updates. Just too much typing on a phone


----------



## ndm

BigRed said:


> Quality maybe u can answer my questions from an earlier post about resolution and what the ps8 can do that no other processor can
> 
> I promise I will present the laundry list of problems it STILL has even AFTER the latest updates. Just too much typing on a phone


Please feel free to list the problems when you get back to a computer. I am still on the fence about getting a ps8 vs 6to8v8 vs helix dsp pro. 

I know that you seem to really dislike the PS8 but I would like simply to have a list of issues to be able to weigh my options.


----------



## quality_sound

subterFUSE said:


> 64 bit processor. 96k sample rate. It is possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm not talking sample rate, I'm talking TA steps. Smaller than .02 isn't possible.


BigRed said:


> Quality maybe u can answer my questions from an earlier post about resolution and what the ps8 can do that no other processor can
> 
> I promise I will present the laundry list of problems it STILL has even AFTER the latest updates. Just too much typing on a phone


The mixer alone would answer that question, Jim. Can you name another processor that has as many PEQ bands as the PS8? I can't. Also, I can't think of any other processor that will feed signal straight into the processor chip. That's just what I remember off the top of my head.


----------



## BigRed

Ok u cannot save or load all presets at the same time. A feature it is supposed to have. There was some weird instructions on how to do that from arc directly but it's definitely not in the manual. I blew a guys tweeter loading to the ps8 because I was unaware u couldn't do this. Arc was kind enough to replace his tweeter

Let's say u pick the sub channel to adjust. If u move 6k on the eq it will adjust any speaker that is crossed over in that range. In other words the chip bleeds thru to all channels on the eq regardless of which channel u select. This was confirmed at state finals when I couldn't adjust simbilance out of a arc team members car. Confirmed by Brian Mitchell and Fred lynch. Again very frustrating when u are trying to help and u have to track down the flaws of the processor. There is a reason why most top arc team members got rid of it. It needs some work man. I tell the truth. If it's buggy it's buggy. Let's fix it. Don't try and sweep it under the rug


----------



## BigRed

Paul, like u don't feel phase adjustment is that important, I don't feel having 30 bands of eq on each channel is either. Just a preference thing though


----------



## subterFUSE

quality_sound said:


> I'm not talking sample rate, I'm talking TA steps. Smaller than .02 isn't possible.


*The reason why* smaller than .02ms steps is not possible is because that is the smallest resolution when using a 44.1k sample rate.

If the sample rate is higher (like 96k) then there can be smaller time alignment steps because there are more samples. This is why Helix DSP Pro can do time alignment in 3.5mm steps.


----------



## quality_sound

BigRed said:


> Paul, like u don't feel phase adjustment is that important, I don't feel having 30 bands of eq on each channel is either. Just a preference thing though



The way it's done on units like the Helix? Not particularly. TA and EQ going to screw with the phase anyway.

I'm not saying you can't have your preference. I'm going by specs. Spec-wise, nothing else has the power of a PS8. Maybe different things you prefer, and that's fine, but overall processing power, the PS8 wins.


----------



## quality_sound

subterFUSE said:


> *The reason why* smaller than .02ms steps is not possible is because that is the smallest resolution when using a 44.1k sample rate.
> 
> If the sample rate is higher (like 96k) then there can be smaller time alignment steps because there are more samples. This is why Helix DSP Pro can do time alignment in 3.5mm steps.


I didn't forget about this. I'll address it when I have more time.


----------



## quality_sound

subterFUSE said:


> *The reason why* smaller than .02ms steps is not possible is because that is the smallest resolution when using a 44.1k sample rate.
> 
> If the sample rate is higher (like 96k) then there can be smaller time alignment steps because there are more samples. This is why Helix DSP Pro can do time alignment in 3.5mm steps.


Here's the deal with .01ms steps, unless you write all new source code, and if they had they'd be charging a LOT more for it, every chip on the market won't calibrate and will change incrementally based on frequency. What this means is that unless they wrote their own code, and as I said, it's not priced like they did, then either every few steps you'll get a big jump, or no step at all, or it simply isn't making .01ms steps. 

I don't know about you, but I'd MUCH rather know that the steps I'm seeing on the screen are what I'm actually getting. Again, assuming it's making .01ms steps in the first place. Given what it would take to make those steps properly and the fact that the available chips aren't 96KHz chips I HIGHLY doubt you're getting that kind of resolution. Every other unit that has claimed steps that small was found to be making .02ms steps.


----------



## BuickGN

BigRed said:


> Ok u cannot save or load all presets at the same time. A feature it is supposed to have. There was some weird instructions on how to do that from arc directly but it's definitely not in the manual. I blew a guys tweeter loading to the ps8 because I was unaware u couldn't do this. Arc was kind enough to replace his tweeter
> 
> Let's say u pick the sub channel to adjust. If u move 6k on the eq it will adjust any speaker that is crossed over in that range. In other words the chip bleeds thru to all channels on the eq regardless of which channel u select. This was confirmed at state finals when I couldn't adjust simbilance out of a arc team members car. Confirmed by Brian Mitchell and Fred lynch. Again very frustrating when u are trying to help and u have to track down the flaws of the processor. There is a reason why most top arc team members got rid of it. It needs some work man. I tell the truth. If it's buggy it's buggy. Let's fix it. Don't try and sweep it under the rug


Wow, and I thought I was going crazy this whole time. I'm really glad you posted this, now that I know it's the processor and not me, I'll be putting it up for sale.


----------



## quality_sound

I don't know how I missed that reply. Is it possible? Sure. It's electronics. All kinds of weird stuff happens. I'll say mine, nor any of the others I've played with did that. Granted, I didn't get a first run unit so changes may have been made. I wonder if it was a mixer issue.


----------



## invictuz

quality_sound said:


> ...The controller is still coming out....


^ from nearly 2 years ago...

With Arc not coming out with the controller / Bluetooth module has anyone been able to port to android?

It would be sweet to have an app on my phone that allowed me to control the PS8 (which has been collecting dust on a shelf in the garage for 2+ years).
The 7" screen of my phone is the perfect size to accommodate the unadjustable PS8 software dialog box.

Meh...my guess is most early adopters of the PS8 gave up and moved on to a more polished product.


----------



## subterFUSE

invictuz said:


> Meh...my guess is most early adopters of the PS8 gave up and moved on to a more polished product.



Yup. I own a PS8 with the OpAmps upgrade, but I have never installed it because of the lack of a controller.


I bought a Helix DSP Pro and I'm happy as a clam. Plus with the Helix I have 2 optical digital inputs.


----------



## ndm

invictuz said:


> ^ from nearly 2 years ago...
> 
> With Arc not coming out with the controller / Bluetooth module has anyone been able to port to android?
> 
> It would be sweet to have an app on my phone that allowed me to control the PS8 (which has been collecting dust on a shelf in the garage for 2+ years).
> The 7" screen of my phone is the perfect size to accommodate the unadjustable PS8 software dialog box.
> 
> Meh...my guess is most early adopters of the PS8 gave up and moved on to a more polished product.


This debacle about Arc promising a controller and all kinds of other stuff for years has IMO been pathetic. I originally wanted the PS8 pretty badly. Unfortunately I have moved on since some the competition has surpassed the capability of the PS8 and are delivering on promises.

In the case of the helix dsp pro-More capable and they look to have their controller coming out any time now. At least we have seen a good idea of what it will look like. In the mean time their old controller works as promised. Also the ability to make your own controller. 

Mosconi 6to8v8- delivered completely on promised. They have two different controllers and an Android app. They also responded quickly to the consumers desire to have higher voltage by releasing the 8 volt version.Case closed

Audison--delivered...case closed

jbl ms8--delivered case closed


In my opinion, Arc could have completely dominated the market and could have had a really good run with it. They dropped the ball and really botched that opportunity. I for one wont be able to forget the issue into the future. 

Sorry if my comments are not pleasing to some but it is the truth. I was one of the guys salivating at the PS8 but am happy that I waited to pull the trigger. Now I have the DSP Pro and had the 6to8V8. If I did not run a three way and rears I would have simply stuck with the 6to8v8. Hell I probably would have been happy to just run two 6to8v8's but the Helix has everything that I need.


My advice to you would be to sell that dust collector and move on to one of the more complete products.


----------



## onebadmonte

What a shame. :/


----------



## quality_sound

invictuz said:


> ^ from nearly 2 years ago...
> 
> With Arc not coming out with the controller / Bluetooth module has anyone been able to port to android?
> 
> It would be sweet to have an app on my phone that allowed me to control the PS8 (which has been collecting dust on a shelf in the garage for 2+ years).
> The 7" screen of my phone is the perfect size to accommodate the unadjustable PS8 software dialog box.
> 
> Meh...my guess is most early adopters of the PS8 gave up and moved on to a more polished product.


Arc is still going to come out with the controller. I've seen it. I've seen it being used. It's awesome, but I will agree it's been WAY too long to come to market. 

Not having the controller doesn't mean the PS8 isn't polished. It just means that the small portion of users that will actually run optical to it will have to use something else. 

Who else lets you adjust the interface size of their software? none of the processors I've used (audison, Alpine, mosconi, Arc) will let you change the GUI size. I couldn't do it with the Helix software either. That was just the demo version but I can't imagine it's any different with a working unit.


----------



## ndm

quality_sound said:


> Arc is still going to come out with the controller. I've seen it. I've seen it being used. It's awesome, but I will agree it's been WAY too long to come to market.
> 
> Not having the controller doesn't mean the PS8 isn't polished. It just means that the small portion of users that will actually run optical to it will have to use something else.
> 
> Who else lets you adjust the interface size of their software? none of the processors I've used (audison, Alpine, mosconi, Arc) will let you change the GUI size. I couldn't do it with the Helix software either. That was just the demo version but I can't imagine it's any different with a working unit.


I Knew that you would chime in and that is cool that you still support them. I am just being really honest in hopes that maybe ARC will see this thread and learn a very hard lesson. 

This time frame is just simply unacceptable. While I appreciate that there may be a six legged four horn golden unicorn out there in the costume of a PS8 controller, as far as I and many other consumers are concerned, it does not exist and is really not an issue anymore. 

I am an arc audio fan. I just cannot give them a pass. The ability to resize the interface is such a minor issue. The controller and a simple bluetooth module is much more of a big deal. I mean really, cmon man we are talking about a piece of equipment that is geared toward people that are serious about audio. These are people that are willing to put up with minor problems as long as they get the performance that they are looking for. 

I was ready to buy multiple units. One for my vehicle and a couple for some home audio stuff. In a world where making products means making money, well ARC just lost me as a DSP customer and probably many more from the reputation hit that this has caused. 

If you release a product, release the accessories that come with it in a reasonable time frame. If you dont want to do that then just sell the product as it is and without the promise that keeps people hanging on there. 

I see things in a simple way. This one is a no brainer. Arc dropped the ball and it has hurt them. Whether you like it or not, this is the case. Hopefully they can fix this. 



Off topic....

I am an Airforce guy, I assume you are too by your location. Hows life down there in the SW?


----------



## captainobvious

quality_sound said:


> Arc is still going to come out with the controller. I've seen it. I've seen it being used. It's awesome, but I will agree it's been WAY too long to come to market.
> 
> Not having the controller doesn't mean the PS8 isn't polished. It just means that the small portion of users that will actually run optical to it will have to use something else.
> 
> Who else lets you adjust the interface size of their software? none of the processors I've used (audison, Alpine, mosconi, Arc) will let you change the GUI size. I couldn't do it with the Helix software either. That was just the demo version but I can't imagine it's any different with a working unit.



Unfortunately, I think it may be too little, too late.  I think they missed out on sales because of it and it hurt the reputation as well. A lot of people who purchased felt like they were hung out to dry when it was mentioned it would be coming soon and years later, still nothing. Now that there is a (arguably) superior product on the market in the Helix DSP Pro, I think they may have missed the opportunity.

Have people been complaining about gui size? I hadn't heard about that. I've used or at least played with the gui software for nearly every dsp unit available in the CA world and I haven't really run into any issues with gui size.


----------



## quality_sound

ndm said:


> I Knew that you would chime in and that is cool that you still support them. I am just being really honest in hopes that maybe ARC will see this thread and learn a very hard lesson.
> 
> This time frame is just simply unacceptable. While I appreciate that there may be a six legged four horn golden unicorn out there in the costume of a PS8 controller, as far as I and many other consumers are concerned, it does not exist and is really not an issue anymore.
> 
> I am an arc audio fan. I just cannot give them a pass. The ability to resize the interface is such a minor issue. The controller and a simple bluetooth module is much more of a big deal. I mean really, cmon man we are talking about a piece of equipment that is geared toward people that are serious about audio. These are people that are willing to put up with minor problems as long as they get the performance that they are looking for.
> 
> I was ready to buy multiple units. One for my vehicle and a couple for some home audio stuff. In a world where making products means making money, well ARC just lost me as a DSP customer and probably many more from the reputation hit that this has caused.
> 
> If you release a product, release the accessories that come with it in a reasonable time frame. If you dont want to do that then just sell the product as it is and without the promise that keeps people hanging on there.
> 
> I see things in a simple way. This one is a no brainer. Arc dropped the ball and it has hurt them. Whether you like it or not, this is the case. Hopefully they can fix this.
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic....
> 
> I am an Airforce guy, I assume you are too by your location. Hows life down there in the SW?


I only replied because I was quoted. It's not even that I still support them. I know everyone at Arc. I've know Fred on a personal level for 15 years. That's the only reason I know as much about Arc as I do. If I hadn't been asked not to, I'd already have put video of the controller up. People that follow Arc's Facebook page have probably already seen the controller without even knowing it.  

I agree that the wait for the controller has been ridiculous. That said, the U.S. isn't even in the top 5 of PS8 purchases. Our wants and wishes are a very small factor in their decision-making process. I agree it's hurt their reputation here, and no matter how many times I say that it's coming, the fact is that no one will believe it until it happens. Like when I laid out the issues with the 360.3. 

Life in AFCannonstan? "It sucks" doesn't even begin to cover it. Sadly, I only have four bases I can go to and this is the only Spec Ops one for me, so here I am.


----------



## quality_sound

captainobvious said:


> Unfortunately, I think it may be too little, too late.  I think they missed out on sales because of it and it hurt the reputation as well. A lot of people who purchased felt like they were hung out to dry when it was mentioned it would be coming soon and years later, still nothing. Now that there is a (arguably) superior product on the market in the Helix DSP Pro, I think they may have missed the opportunity.
> 
> Have people been complaining about gui size? I hadn't heard about that. I've used or at least played with the gui software for nearly every dsp unit available in the CA world and I haven't really run into any issues with gui size.


In the US, I agree. Overseas, not so much. I agree that the processors available have gotten better. I do like the DSP Pro a lot but I don't know that I'd say it's better. I'd put them on the same level, personally, and I think the PS8 interface it easier to use, but that will be different for everyone. 

I mentioned the GUI size because someone else was complaining that it wasn't resizable. I don't think anyone's is. I wish it was. The toolbar on my laptop cuts off the bottom of every GUI I've used.


----------



## ndm

Okay, I will be fair here.

Since there is a mysterious controller out there somewhere. I will issue this challenge.

If ARC audio can release the controller and the bluetooth module BEFORE Helix comes to market, I will buy the processor and accessories to use in my home theater as planned. In the event that this does not happen then I will write this product off completely until eternity. 


Now......we all know how this is going to end.......

ARC, cmon lets get this done. Salvage what may be left or simply wrap it up.


----------



## quality_sound

ndm said:


> Okay, I will be fair here.
> 
> Since there is a mysterious controller out there somewhere. I will issue this challenge.
> 
> If ARC audio can release the controller and the bluetooth module BEFORE Helix comes to market, I will buy the processor and accessories to use in my home theater as planned. In the event that this does not happen then I will write this product off completely until eternity.
> 
> 
> Now......we all know how this is going to end.......
> 
> ARC, cmon lets get this done. Salvage what may be left or simply wrap it up.


You should call Arc and talk to Fred or Brad directly. I don't press them for timeframes, I just get random updates every now and then. That said, not having a controller doesn't mean the product isn't useful. 

I would agree that for you, the best option is to use the one that has the accessories you need.


----------



## ndm

quality_sound said:


> I only replied because I was quoted. It's not even that I still support them. I know everyone at Arc. I've know Fred on a personal level for 15 years. That's the only reason I know as much about Arc as I do. If I hadn't been asked not to, I'd already have put video of the controller up. People that follow Arc's Facebook page have probably already seen the controller without even knowing it.
> 
> I agree that the wait for the controller has been ridiculous. That said, the U.S. isn't even in the top 5 of PS8 purchases. Our wants and wishes are a very small factor in their decision-making process. I agree it's hurt their reputation here, and no matter how many times I say that it's coming, the fact is that no one will believe it until it happens. Like when I laid out the issues with the 360.3.
> 
> Life in AFCannonstan? "It sucks" doesn't even begin to cover it. Sadly, I only have four bases I can go to and this is the only Spec Ops one for me, so here I am.





quality_sound said:


> In the US, I agree. Overseas, not so much. I agree that the processors available have gotten better. I do like the DSP Pro a lot but I don't know that I'd say it's better. I'd put them on the same level, personally, and I think the PS8 interface it easier to use, but that will be different for everyone.
> 
> I mentioned the GUI size because someone else was complaining that it wasn't re-sizable. I don't think anyone's is. I wish it was. The toolbar on my laptop cuts off the bottom of every GUI I've used.


If you know these guys...get them on the right track please.

I disagree with you as far as the PS8 and the DSP Pro being on the same level. One of the simplest reasons is that they would need to survive the dreaded consumer side by side test. If you listed all the specs and features this way, well, it is really no contest. This is the way that most consumers view product. A versus B. 
Just the extra two channels alone and the available accessories keeps the helix out front. Now also remember that Helix has already responded to a few wants and wishes. That equates to listening to the consumer. While the new software release and small issues are not completely perfect, at least we know that they are paying attention. 

ARC is sending signals loud and clear that they are not paying attention and really could care less about us consumers. This is the type of thing that can hurt not only this product but also other IMO awesome products that ARC sells too. I for one Love their Amps.


----------



## ndm

quality_sound said:


> You should call Arc and talk to Fred or Brad directly. I don't press them for timeframes, I just get random updates every now and then. That said, not having a controller doesn't mean the product isn't useful.
> 
> I would agree that for you, the best option is to use the one that has the accessories you need.


No point in calling them. Useful, yes. So are the competitors. 

I just want them to gitterdun!! 

And on a humorous note, I would think that you dont press them for time frames because you know that you would have to multiply the time frame times an unknown number to get a correct time frame. LOL

Sorry, Just poking fun at a Fellow American Airman!! (where is an American Flag smilie when you need one)


----------



## subterFUSE

I don't think they are saying they don't care about the consumers. That really adds a negative side to this which I don't think is fair.

Arc Audio seems to consider the PS8 controller as a lower priority, that's all.

Of course, we consumers have priorities, too. That's just how it works.


----------



## ndm

subterFUSE said:


> I don't think they are saying they don't care about the consumers. That really adds a negative side to this which I don't think is fair.
> 
> Arc Audio seems to consider the PS8 controller as a lower priority, that's all.
> 
> Of course, we consumers have priorities, too. That's just how it works.


You are very correct. I dont think that what I said is true at all. I am just pointing out the way that most consumers think. Consumers are cheap, Lazy, and can be sometimes ridiculous with what the expect. 

I for one am fighting for ARC. I believe that everything is more complex than simple. 

If this is not a high priority, well that is fine. Just realize that some of the other companies are able to juggle more high priority stuff. 

This is the world we live in. It sucks some times but this is it. I am a hopeless romantic for the old days of car audio but it does not change the new day and age that we are in. 

Rest in peace Car audio magazine, etc.......


----------



## captainobvious

ndm said:


> Sorry, Just poking fun at a Fellow American Airman!! (where is an American Flag smilie when you need one)



Careful with the American Flag references 


I joke I joke...I kid I kid...


----------



## quality_sound

ndm said:


> No point in calling them. Useful, yes. So are the competitors.
> 
> I just want them to gitterdun!!
> 
> And on a humorous note, I would think that you dont press them for time frames because you know that you would have to multiply the time frame times an unknown number to get a correct time frame. LOL
> 
> Sorry, Just poking fun at a Fellow American Airman!! (where is an American Flag smilie when you need one)


I actually don't press for timeframes because I personally don't care. I'm not running optical so there is little benefit to the controller. There are some features I can't talk about that I would LOVE to have besides the ability to run optical that the controller brings to the table, but they're conveniences, not deal-breakers. It's easier for me to be less cynical because I've seen the controller as it has progressed but I'm in a very unique situation. I totally get why people are upset. If I needed optical and wanted to use the PS8, I'd be mad too.


----------



## rcsauvag

I'm new to the DSP game trying to learn about them and considering this. 

What is so coveted about the controller?


----------



## subterFUSE

rcsauvag said:


> I'm new to the DSP game trying to learn about them and considering this.
> 
> What is so coveted about the controller?



The primary benefit of a controller is that you can use the Optical Digital input with sources that don't have variable digital signals. Most optical sources don't include any volume control of their own. Therefore, a DSP unit needs to have a volume control in order to use that digital source and be able to adjust volume.

Some sources have variable volume, like the mObridge DA1 preamp or the Audison Bit Play HD. Those sources will work with the PS8 in current form.
But a lot of other sources do not have variable volumes, so those would not be useful until the PS8 has a volume controller.


----------



## jbholsters

I purchased a PS8 to replace an Alpine H800. After trying to set gain structure any number of ways, I still have a massive noise floor at any volume level from 0 to 35. I've turned the mid and tweet amp gains to minimum (they were set to 10% over clipping with alpine installed) The only way I can eliminate the noise floor is to have the master volume control set to +4, and the input volume to 0. While this does eliminate the noise floor, it has also decreasing the output of my system significantly. Any suggestions? I'm extremely disappointed in this processor due to this issue.


----------



## ndm

I cannot believe that it has been almost four years since the announcement broke about this dsp, about three and a half years since the first one showed up on this forum.....

And still no remote is available.

IMHO--Pathetic. I am glad I waited and got the DSP pro. 

Sorry to those that do not like my words but I am just being honest.


----------



## Niebur3

jbholsters said:


> I purchased a PS8 to replace an Alpine H800. After trying to set gain structure any number of ways, I still have a massive noise floor at any volume level from 0 to 35. I've turned the mid and tweet amp gains to minimum (they were set to 10% over clipping with alpine installed) The only way I can eliminate the noise floor is to have the master volume control set to +4, and the input volume to 0. While this does eliminate the noise floor, it has also decreasing the output of my system significantly. Any suggestions? I'm extremely disappointed in this processor due to this issue.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1853498-post423.html

"Master volume. 

Try this though,
Set your input gains to 0
Switch to advanced mode
Go to the input mixer
Set your inputs to 0.15 on all inputs used
Set Master Volume to +20-22

The PS8 inputs are STUPID sensitive. This brings the sensitivity down and any noise that came in on the inputs."

This worked for me!


----------



## quality_sound

ndm said:


> I cannot believe that it has been almost four years since the announcement broke about this dsp, about three and a half years since the first one showed up on this forum.....
> 
> 
> 
> And still no remote is available.
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO--Pathetic. I am glad I waited and got the DSP pro.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to those that do not like my words but I am just being honest.




Thank you for the ever so helpful post.


----------



## ndm

quality_sound said:


> Thank you for the ever so helpful post.


Look man, I understand your commitment to them. I get it. But I am just speaking out as a consumer. I am not trying to be a troll or anything like members that are known to do that. That is not it at all. But no matter what anyone says, the facts are the facts and the truth is the truth. I wanted to run this DSP and unfortunately the accessories are not a priority for them as many have stated before. 

I have every right to voice my opinion about this matter. Whether you think it was helpful or not, it is still my opinion. You have every right to defend them too but the fact still remains, almost 4 years ago it was announced, and as I said before the first in hand photo showed up a few months after yet here we sit. Still waiting. 

I dont care how good the dsp is. I dont care how awesome the remote is. If I as a consumer cannot actually commit my dollars to the product and have it in hand with the accessories then it is all unicorns. 

Sorry if you do not agree.


----------



## quality_sound

ndm said:


> Look man, I understand your commitment to them. I get it. But I am just speaking out as a consumer. I am not trying to be a troll or anything like members that are known to do that. That is not it at all. But no matter what anyone says, the facts are the facts and the truth is the truth. I wanted to run this DSP and unfortunately the accessories are not a priority for them as many have stated before.
> 
> 
> 
> I have every right to voice my opinion about this matter. Whether you think it was helpful or not, it is still my opinion. You have every right to defend them too but the fact still remains, almost 4 years ago it was announced, and as I said before the first in hand photo showed up a few months after yet here we sit. Still waiting.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont care how good the dsp is. I dont care how awesome the remote is. If I as a consumer cannot actually commit my dollars to the product and have it in hand with the accessories then it is all unicorns.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry if you do not agree.




And there's a whole other thread you can ***** about it in. Your thread will literally change nothing and no one's mind. 

Yes, you can voice your opinions and I am just as free to point out how pointless they are.


----------



## ndm

quality_sound said:


> And there's a whole other thread you can ***** about it in. Your thread will literally change nothing and no one's mind.
> 
> Yes, you can voice your opinions and I am just as free to point out how pointless they are.


Oh my bad. I did not realize that there was a "***** about the PS8" thread too. Please kindly point my in that direction as I cannot find it. I would hate to muddy up this one with my pointless honesty. I did not see the note in this thread about not being able to post opinions in an open forum.

Have a good day.


----------



## invictuz

Just a quick note about this dead horse:
I bought the PS8 in pre-order in 2012.
My serial number was 0083 or something close.

I had several issues with it, cold weather popping, settings reset randomly, etc.
After several months (almost 2 years) of trying to work through the issues, applying updates and trying to login to the Arc Audio forums for info (only to run into account issues & couldn't recover account, yadda, yadda, yadda...) I shelved the PS8.

A few years back I read a thread that encouraged owners with issues to contact Arc Audio.
I meant to, just kept pushing it until tomorrow.

After sitting on the shelf with my Tru Technology Super Billet 8 & P99rs I finally reached out to Arc Audio.

*Holy snapple Arc Audio (Brad & Lisa) were awesome!*

The immediately knew what I was talking about and despite the many years out of warranty they had me ship it to them and they sent me a brand new one (serial number on this one is over 10,000).

Havent tried the new Arc Audio DSP controller but will be ordering one for a customer in Jan to install in his GLC.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

invictuz said:


> Havent tried the new Arc Audio DSP controller but will be ordering one for a customer in Jan to install in his GLC.


The PRO is a solid DSP. Great step up in features.


----------



## captainobvious

I like both DSPs. The PS8 and the new Pro are both nice pieces. The interface and tuning options are an upgrade on the Pro. Nice job by Arc


----------



## piyush7243

Hopefully we see a 10 or 12 channel to go head on with Helix. More the merrier!!

Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk


----------

