# JBL MS8 arrives in Nor Cal!



## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

Yes, it's true! I have seen and heard the promised land! My JBL rep showed up at my shop today with his rep sample installed in his TL! It was connected to the factory head unit and 5.1 dvd audio system. He had it calibrated for 5.1 with factory center channel and sounded OK. Better than factory system without processor. However, it really impressed me when it was connected minus the factory center channel. I re-calibrated it using only front, rear and subs and when it was done measuring I was completly impressed with the tonality and imaging. The center image was focused in the center of the dash without the help of the center speaker. Although when switched to 2 seat mode the image would pull to the outside. Not bad for a 15 second intitial set up and config! I have 2 on order and I am expecting them first week of June! One is spoken for already and I will probobly ut the other one in my daily driver for full evaluation. I will keep you all posted. PM me if you want to reserve one! I do offer a DIY discount in my store, so let me know ASAP so I can reserve yours!

Cheers!
gf


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## Shocks (Oct 1, 2008)

Please do keep us posted!!


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

whatever you do, don't put it in the scion. That card doesn't need any help


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## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

BigRed said:


> whatever you do, don't put it in the scion. That card doesn't need any help


MS8 can't deliver the help the Scion needs! We are working on that now. Can't disclose any details now, G-14 classified,..you understand! Hopefully be done by Visalia!
Dying to put the MS8 in my daily driver! See what it can do with a simple system. 
I'll keep everyone posted!

Cheers
gf


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## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

I was under the impression that a 15 minute config was all the MS-8 needed to work it's magic? Other than crossover points what else is needed? Please let us know about the tweaking process. 

Jim


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

cajunner said:


> the last dollar, (your 31 band curve) is probably going to take more than 15 minutes of your time...


yeah, 6 months to 2 years


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## bkjay (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm confused Godfather post said config. in 15 sec. not 15 min. Was that a typo.?


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## Dangerranger (Apr 12, 2006)

awesome. so how would you compare the processor to say, the alpine pxe-h650, or tuning your own with an H701 or any other 1/3 octave equalizer in addition to t/a provided by a source unit or similar?


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## trigg007 (Feb 24, 2010)

Dangerranger said:


> awesome. so how would you compare the processor to say, the alpine pxe-h650, or tuning your own with an H701 or any other 1/3 octave equalizer in addition to t/a provided by a source unit or similar?


x2...I'm actually on the fence with this and the Bit 1; but we have access to atleast 1 of 2 of the best tuners in the industry & Bit 1 appears to have much more flexibility.


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## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

trigg007 said:


> x2...I'm actually on the fence with this and the Bit 1; but we have access to atleast 1 of 2 of the best tuners in the industry & Bit 1 appears to have much more flexibility.


FWIW, I know FAR more people who bought, used, then sold the BitOne rather than those who bought and kept it. It really doesn't seem to live up to the hype. So if it were my money getting spent, it would get spent on an MS-8. JBL just has way too solid of a track record for making a quality product. Just my .02 on the matter anyway.

Vince, let me know once you get the MS-8 in your DD so I can swing by and check it out.

Cheers,

Zach


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## trigg007 (Feb 24, 2010)

Boostedrex said:


> FWIW, I know FAR more people who bought, used, then sold the BitOne rather than those who bought and kept it. It really doesn't seem to live up to the hype. So if it were my money getting spent, it would get spent on an MS-8. JBL just has way too solid of a track record for making a quality product. Just my .02 on the matter anyway./QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I've done my research; *IMO* most of the qualms about the Bit.1 appear to be from less sofisticated attempts. I'll admit the Bit.1 is probably over most folks heads...mine included. *IMO* the processing capabilities of the Bit.1 versus the MS8 (Logic 7, etc) seem much more overwhelming yet provides much greater processing/system flexibility. We're very fortunate to have access to some of the most talented tuners/installers who have mucho experience with the processor (Bit.1). However, the "set-it & forget it" aspect of the MS8 does seem very appealing, which is why I'm still on the fence. I may decide to just buy both for the hell of it. In the meantime we're watching from the sidelines...


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## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

Dangerranger said:


> awesome. so how would you compare the processor to say, the alpine pxe-h650, or tuning your own with an H701 or any other 1/3 octave equalizer in addition to t/a provided by a source unit or similar?


PXEH650 is about 1/4 of the MS8. The few we installed and played with were unimpressive. It's only a 150.00 unit, so how good can it be? 
The Bit1 was built with a little more thought, but also has it's limitations and had issues in the very beginning. Scott played with one outside the car for a few days and then sold it. It seems a lot of guys have challanges operating it. 
Comparing it to a 701 there is no comparison. The 701 is a competition grade processor with dual 31 band eq.as well as alot more flexibilty with time correction, x-over, phase, slopes, etc. However these type's of processors require time and knowledge of how to use all of those tools. The MS8 has only a single 31 band eq for both channels and is very easy to use so It definitley has a place in the market. For guys who want above average performance but are not trying to build a competition car or spend a ton of money on tuning sessions the MS8 delivers. It really depends on the individual needs of each one considering adding a processor to their system.
Hope that helps!
gf


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## trigg007 (Feb 24, 2010)

My biggest fear...



godfathr said:


> The Bit1 was built with a little more thought, but also has it's limitations and had issues in the very beginning. Scott played with one outside the car for a few days and then sold it. *It seems a lot of guys have challanges operating it*.





godfathr said:


> However *these type's of processors require time and knowledge of how to use all of those tools*.


*This one nails it; the differences between MS8 versus Bit.1 or H701...*



godfathr said:


> For guys who want *above average performance *but are *not trying to build a competition car *or spend a ton of money on tuning sessions the MS8 delivers. It really depends on the individual needs of each one considering adding a processor to their system.
> Hope that helps!
> gf



Problem is, is that most think they want "well above average performace", when above average is perfectly fine for the car environment. Hell, if I wasn't so paranoid of having a killer deck in my ride (theft), I'd trash both processor ideas and jump on the new pioneer dex-p99rs campaign, but thats like having a TV with built-in VCR...one goes out and yer screwed


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## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

Problem is, is that most think they want "well above average performace", when above average is perfectly fine for the car environment. Hell, if I wasn't so paranoid of having a killer deck in my ride (theft), I'd trash both processor ideas and jump on the new pioneer dex-p99rs campaign, but thats like having a TV with built-in VCR...one goes out and yer screwed[/QUOTE]

I think you'll be very happy with an MS8. Bang for the buck factor is very high with this piece! It will get you 95% there in the first 15 min which usually takes us an hour or so depending on the system, car etc.
gf


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## Se7en (Mar 28, 2007)

Your original post could be interpreted as prefering the 2 channel mode (single seat) over 5.1 mode. 

Is this the case?


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## trigg007 (Feb 24, 2010)

godfathr said:


> Problem is, is that most think they want "well above average performace", when above average is perfectly fine for the car environment. Hell, if I wasn't so paranoid of having a killer deck in my ride (theft), I'd trash both processor ideas and jump on the new pioneer dex-p99rs campaign, but thats like having a TV with built-in VCR...one goes out and yer screwed


I think you'll be very happy with an MS8. Bang for the buck factor is very high with this piece! It will get you 95% there in the first 15 min which usually takes us an hour or so depending on the system, car etc.
gf[/QUOTE]


I'm starting to believe "you're right on" dude. I just want to enjoy the music without any insurance claims or ending up in some obituary search:laugh:. 
Thanks for your input/feedback/opinions. I may just have to bite the bullit despite my installers preference for processors.


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## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

Se7en said:


> Your original post could be interpreted as prefering the 2 channel mode (single seat) over 5.1 mode.
> 
> Is this the case?


Absolutly! I am a 2 channel guy at heart. 
5.1 is ok for theater but not for music IMHO.
It seems to processed and unatural.
gf


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## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

trigg007 said:


> I think you'll be very happy with an MS8. Bang for the buck factor is very high with this piece! It will get you 95% there in the first 15 min which usually takes us an hour or so depending on the system, car etc.
> gf



I'm starting to believe "you're right on" dude. I just want to enjoy the music without any insurance claims or ending up in some obituary search:laugh:. 
Thanks for your input/feedback/opinions. I may just have to bite the bullit despite my installers preference for processors.[/QUOTE]

Good Luck my friend! Always trust your heart and ears!
gf


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Boostedrex said:


> FWIW, I know FAR more people who bought, used, then sold the BitOne rather than those who bought and kept it. It really doesn't seem to live up to the hype. So if it were my money getting spent, it would get spent on an MS-8. JBL just has way too solid of a track record for making a quality product. Just my .02 on the matter anyway.
> 
> Vince, let me know once you get the MS-8 in your DD so I can swing by and check it out.
> 
> ...


I'll just say this, if not for the auto-tune in the MS-8 I'd still be running my Bit One. I LOVED that piece. The MS-8 is just easier and I'm getting lazy. Without auto-tune I prefer the B1.1, it's a hell of a lot smaller.


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## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

cajunner said:


> I don't get it?
> 
> I was under the impression that MS-8 is proprietary technology, or at the very least, technology that is unobtainium in a consumer car audio product?
> 
> ...


Absolutly right! Most people won't need anymore processing. What I stated was for a "competition system" we want more flexibility in tuning. Every vehicle is different and posed challanges based on the vehicle acoustics, ie instrument cluster on the driver side will cause reflections that you don't have on the passenger side, a l/r eq will allow you the ability to correct each channel independently. Most competitiors I know will not trust a computer algorithim to figure out the small details involved in tuning an award winning competition vehicle. That is why I stated the MS8 will be a very good processor for most people. It all depends on what EACH PERSONS INDIVIDUAL NEEDS AND PERFORMANCE STANDARDS ARE. (not trying to yell here, just wanted to highlight the main point, please don't take it the wrong way!)
I hope that clarifies it for you!
gf


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

godfathr said:


> PXEH650 is about 1/4 of the MS8. The few we installed and played with were unimpressive. It's only a 150.00 unit, so how good can it be?
> The Bit1 was built with a little more thought, but also has it's limitations and had issues in the very beginning. Scott played with one outside the car for a few days and then sold it. It seems a lot of guys have challanges operating it.
> Comparing it to a 701 there is no comparison. The 701 is a competition grade processor with dual 31 band eq.as well as alot more flexibilty with time correction, x-over, phase, slopes, etc. However these type's of processors require time and knowledge of how to use all of those tools. *The MS8 has only a single 31 band eq for both channels *and is very easy to use so It definitley has a place in the market. For guys who want above average performance but are not trying to build a competition car or spend a ton of money on tuning sessions the MS8 delivers. It really depends on the individual needs of each one considering adding a processor to their system.
> Hope that helps!
> gf



No, you only control the sum of the channels, if that makes sense. The MS-8 EQs each channel individually, with a lot more than 31 bands each, but it's controlled by you telling it what you want hear at the seat.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Plus, how's this for only a 31 band EQ........

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1042546-post2634.html


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

The MS-8 also changes the Q of the midbass highpass crossover when the sub output is boosted or cut. That way the _acoustic_ crossover point between the two always remains the same instead of shift up or down according to the sub level relative to the midbass level. 

Nothing else out there does that.


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## 14642 (May 19, 2008)

Vince, I think you'll find that MS-8's EQ is far more powerful and works far better than a collection of standard 31-band EQs. The point is that you don't need to adjust separately for right and left because that's already done for you. MS-8's crossover is plenty flexible enough. Because of the way the subwoofer level control works, you won't need to mess around with over- and "under-lap" between sub and front. In fact, MS-8 won't even allow it.


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## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

Andy Wehmeyer said:


> Vince, I think you'll find that MS-8's EQ is far more powerful and works far better than a collection of standard 31-band EQs. The point is that you don't need to adjust separately for right and left because that's already done for you. MS-8's crossover is plenty flexible enough. Because of the way the subwoofer level control works, you won't need to mess around with over- and "under-lap" between sub and front. In fact, MS-8 won't even allow it.


Andy!...my brother...I was hoping to get your attention with this post! How's everything? I left you a voice mail months ago. Figured you were super busy. I ordered a few MS8's for me and a few clients who have been waiting patiently for them. Can't wait to play with one in my Avalon. I really beleive these will sell like crazy. Most consumers who aren't looking for a competition system will really enjoy what this product can do to a stock system, or even a mildly upgraded system. 
When you coming up North for some dealer visits or maybe even a training? I hosted one at my shop last month ( Audio - Xperts Gallery :: Audio Xperts First Ever SQ Summit)
with Fred from Arc Audio. Would love to feature one with you and the MS8!
PM me and we can talk!
Vince


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

fyi: all the MS-8's that have competed have mopped the floor with wins


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## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

BigRed said:


> fyi: all the MS-8's that have competed have mopped the floor with wins


I heard about one car in the stock class. Anyone in the higher classes competing with these? What kinda scores are they posting?
gf


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

godfathr said:


> PXEH650 is about 1/4 of the MS8. The few we installed and played with were unimpressive. It's only a 150.00 unit, so how good can it be?


Sounds more like user error (bad measurement technique) than a flaw in the equipment. Audyssey's not perfect but it does pretty damn well. Might the MS8 be better? For a more complicated system (anything with more drivers than stereo sub+midbass+widebander, or if one must sub+midwoofer+tweeter) there's no question that the MS8 is better, because it supports center steering, has a better rear-fill implementation, etc.

What about for 2-channel listening? Harman's listening tests (see Dr. Sean Olive's blog) show data indicating that their room correction curve is generally preferred, though one should in the same breath note that those listening tests were performed using expensive-but-low-fidelity speakers. (B&W N802's I believe.) With better speakers, the results may be different. Also, people with home Synthesis systems seem to love them. 

So the situation is basically that we have two teams of really smart people (Harman and Audyssey) starting from different first principles and different business models (one shouldn't expect to see Harman's technologies on a on-Harman product, whereas Audyssey is overwhelmingly a licensor of its technologies) competing in the marketplace. Too bad the other areas of audio aren't growing in the same way that room correction processing is!


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## trigg007 (Feb 24, 2010)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Plus, how's this for only a 31 band EQ........
> 
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1042546-post2634.html


Thanks for posting the linky; I didn't notice that post, but then that thread is way too long to keep up with.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

trigg007 said:


> Thanks for posting the linky; I didn't notice that post, but then that thread is way too long to keep up with.


No problem 

I just bumped another important post if you're interested. It included the details of the bass management mentioned earlier.


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## CraigE (Jun 10, 2008)

JBL MS-8 arrives in So Cal... Tomorrow.
Just got my tracking number . YAHOO !!:biggrinflip:


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## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

CraigE said:


> JBL MS-8 arrives in So Cal... Tomorrow.
> Just got my tracking number . YAHOO !!:biggrinflip:


Nice!
This one for the Vette?
gf


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## CraigE (Jun 10, 2008)

godfathr said:


> Nice!
> This one for the Vette?
> gf


Yep, for the Vette.
Won't get it until Fri. they are shipping from BF Georgia, not Northridge Ca.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

And CA residents STILL have to pay tax bexcause JBL has offices there even though the prodict is coming from GA. Boooo. Hell, I'm not even in the States and I had to pay tax (NJ specifically) because JBL doesn't have USPS or military shipping options.

And we ALL had to pay shipping even though they're offering free shipping right now. 

Those things added $90 to the total. If I'd have known Crutchfield was going to carry it I'd have ordered from them. Free shipping and no tax.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

godfathr said:


> I heard about one car in the stock class. Anyone in the higher classes competing with these? What kinda scores are they posting?
> gf


I get mine Friday and we'll see what kind of score I get.


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## Gearhead Greg (Jul 1, 2009)

Can't wait to judge it (although I probably will have to WORK during Aubrey's triple-pointer in a couple of weeks!)...


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## CraigE (Jun 10, 2008)

michaelsil1 said:


> I get mine Friday and we'll see what kind of score I get.


We're gonna tie.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

CraigE said:


> We're gonna tie.


OMG!

The Horror! :faint:


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## BigRed (Aug 12, 2007)

Cash is King, I don't pay no stinkin tax  2 arrive at the dealer on friday and are spoken for, while the others are rolling in the following week according to JBL


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

BigRed said:


> Cash is King, I don't pay no stinkin tax


Uncle Sam is not liking you! :behead:


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## ibanzil (Jun 29, 2008)

Had mine in and setup at 11:30 last night. Got some good sound outa some cheap speakers thrown in. Did a very good job of blending sub to midbass and the sound was surprisingly good for my haul ass/half assed install. The real test will be when I put the goods in and take time to get things right before runnin the ms8.


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## DynamicAudioLodi (Jul 13, 2009)

We have a few MS 8's order. And should hopefully be seeing them within a few weeks, according to our rep. One is going into my Touareg for demo. I'll be temporarily taking out my Bitone and replacing it with the MS8. Who knows, maybe I't will stay permanently. So for anyone that wants to listen to it with a factory head unit, Audison Lrx5.1k, Hertz Mlk 165, and Hertz Mille ML250, you are more than welcome to listen to it before and after MS8. Cheers.


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## Se7en (Mar 28, 2007)

Mine is going into the car right now.

Initial report later this evening.

This will be a standard stereo setup with a 3 way front stage.


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## doitor (Aug 16, 2007)

Se7en said:


> Mine is going into the car right now.
> 
> Initial report later this evening.
> 
> This will be a standar stereo setup with a 3 way front stage.


Looking forward to your review.
Anyone wants a P-01?

J.


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## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

Se7en said:


> Mine is going into the car right now.
> 
> Initial report later this evening.
> 
> This will be a standard stereo setup with a 3 way front stage.


I got 3 comin in Tuesday. 2 are spoken for and 1 will be a backup. I will test in my Scion also. Lookin forward to your review!
gf


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## trigg007 (Feb 24, 2010)

and I "pulled the trigger too"; delivery expected 6/7...now just need to decide on drivers for 2010 Ram...suggestions?


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## godfathr (Jun 22, 2009)

Results are in for the Scion! I was very impressed with what this unit can do. I expect to install a ton of these. It was definitely worth the wait. 
Great job Andy! Still waiting for that call back brother!
The first one I tried unfortunatley was stuck in a Please Wait! mode and never got out of it. But luckily I had another one and it worked just fine. Set up and configuration was a breeze. Image was stable and solid after the initial auto tune. The auto tune did get rid of a very choppy initial curve and smoothed it out fine in a fraction of the time it takes us to do manually which is going to make it very affordable to anyone. No more marathon tuning sessions! RTA revealed exactly what both Scott and I heard. It was a little too flat for my taste, but after a little tweaking with the eq I was real close. You were right Andy, the 31 band eq will be plenty of control to fine tune any system. Unfortunalely I ran out of time and my 701 tune yielded better stage width, depth and tonality. After this weekend's show the MS8 will be back in and we can tweak with it some more and get it dialed in I'm sure. 
C-yall Saturday!
Cheers!
gf


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## less (Nov 30, 2006)

trigg007 said:


> Boostedrex said:
> 
> 
> > FWIW, I know FAR more people who bought, used, then sold the BitOne rather than those who bought and kept it. It really doesn't seem to live up to the hype. So if it were my money getting spent, it would get spent on an MS-8. JBL just has way too solid of a track record for making a quality product. Just my .02 on the matter anyway./QUOTE]
> ...


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## dkh (Apr 2, 2008)

Good on you - once the hype and dust settles, oh btw - there should be the ms-9 / 10 etc etc to keep the bandwagon rollin'


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## ItalynStylion (May 3, 2008)

Se7en said:


> Mine is going into the car right now.
> 
> Initial report later this evening.
> 
> This will be a standard stereo setup with a 3 way front stage.


Sooooo?


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

I'm one of those that's very difficult to please and as Less said people are going to have different tastes. The target curve the MS-8 uses isn't going to appeal to everyone and I'm going to have to break out the RTA and really see what's going on. The MS-8 does a good job of balancing Left Right and Time Alignment so all I have to do now is EQ to my taste.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

I imagine the ms-8 sets everything to flat. The end user shapes the final sound to what they want.

I've already RTA'd my system and saved the response (which I know like the back of my hand after weeks/months of tuning and using the RTA as my sanity check). We'll see how an A/B comparison works out.


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## michaelsil1 (May 24, 2007)

bikinpunk said:


> I imagine the ms-8 sets everything to flat. The end user shapes the final sound to what they want.
> 
> I've already RTA'd my system and saved the response (which I know like the back of my hand after weeks/months of tuning and using the RTA as my sanity check). We'll see how an A/B comparison works out.


I believe the MS-8 uses a target curve that's start's boosting at 160Hz and below. I tried this curve when I had the Bit One it and found it a little to Bass heavy for my tastes. Someone told me that because I didn't have both sides balanced was the reason I didn't like it. I have both sides balanced now and I still think it's a little to Bass heavy. Someone else will think its not enough Bass.


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## Se7en (Mar 28, 2007)

ItalynStylion said:


> Sooooo?


Sorry for the delay. I was having a few unique issues with my unit so I arranged a swap out with Andy. I will try to get it back in over the weekend.

As an aside, they got me a new unit over night (even before mine was sent out). Both Andy and Adam have gone way out of their way to provide excellent support, at least to me. 

Initial impressions were generally positive (with exception to some issues that may either be specific to my unit or my install).

I will say that the MS8 is a pretty powerful device. It almost completely removed cabin gain, improved tonality, tightened up image focus and improved stage height. 

Where I had some difficulty was in the area of overall system gain, which may have either been attributed to the way it was equalizing my system or potentially a problem with the unit. In order to get good "input" levels during calibration, I had to turn my OEM HU way up. Unfortunately this meant that I was running my Bose amplifier at somewhere between 80-90% to get satisfactory levels. Similarly, even though tonality and level balance improved, the system lost much of its dynamics and became somewhat lifeless. This improved dramatically after increasing my line driver gains. 

The only other concern which again, may have been specific to my install or my particular unit, was that it did run pretty hot. I'm hoping that onve I re-install the new unit and try to provide better cooling, that this will not be an issue.

My current thinking will is that the MS8 will stay in my system.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

well, that's close to the curve that I have already.
Mine starts a rise at about 200hz. I have a cut centered around 4khz and another boost on the top end. 

I'm sorry, I thought (presumed) it flattened out the response initially. I was apparently wrong. What else is new.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

Erin,

The MS-8 doesn't even come close to a flat setting. It's actually very close the "ideal" curve IASCA used to put in with the test CD.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

interesting. that's good to know, though.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Here's the curve and the bass boost.......

View attachment 18890


View attachment 18891


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

nice.

I noticed they don't have a steady rise throughout the low end: instead they have 50hz a couple dB higher than 63 & 40hz a bit higher than 30hz (which, coincidentally are problem areas in most of the cars I've listened to/tuned). Good call. 

I can see why some might not like the target curve and I see a few bands that I'd have to work on right away. But, for the most part, it looks like they've taken care of the low end response, accounting for cabin gain and resonance issues. I would expect a very detailed, attacking midbass output with this, just from seeing that curve and knowing how our cars are.


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