# HAT L1 Pro R2 vs Morel Supremo Piccolo vs Hertz Mille ML 280



## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

Hi, I'm trying to decide between these three tweeters for a 2 way active stealth install. 

Currently running SPX-177R comps, likely to change to W18NX mid/midbass, will probably like to crossover ~2KHz. Tweets are likely to be somewhat off axis in factory locations in sail panels. (stealth requirement)

Unfortunately there are no dealers here in NZ, so I'm not able to audition any of them - any help would be greatly appreciated. (Buying all three options would probably be cheaper than the flights required to audition!)

I'm looking for detailed, non fatiguing sound.

From what I've read, my top options are:

Morel Supremo Piccolo
Well known for non fatiguing, detailed sound
I'd have to cut down faceplates to fit them in  (does this change response significantly?)
Quite limited off axis response - do these work OK off axis??

Mille ML 280
Possibly not quite as smooth as Supremo?
OK off axis response 
Could be installed slightly more on axis due to smaller size

Hybrid Audio L1 Pro R2 (or L1 Pro SE)
Very good off axis response
Smoother and less fatiguing than other Hybrid tweets - but how does this compare to Mille and Supremo? How easy are they to listen too?

Any help from those who have compared would be greatly appreciated!

Please give reasons where possible and don't just vote for your favorite brands! 

Thanks!!!!


----------



## eviling (Apr 14, 2010)

denetnz said:


> Hi, I'm trying to decide between these three tweeters for a 2 way active stealth install.
> 
> Currently running SPX-177R comps, likely to change to W18NX mid/midbass, will probably like to crossover ~2KHz. Tweets are likely to be somewhat off axis in factory locations in sail panels. (stealth requirement)
> 
> ...


I had a set of R2's for a whole 10 mins, one of them was dead. i can tell you my opinoon based on what i did hear though out of the working driver. 

they were VERY effortless drivers, with very clean sound, absolutely no harshness , you already know they do great off axis with very smooth responses. personly though, i'm not sure if i'm gonna stick with them. I'm thinking about the DLS Scandinavians but you're looking for smaller tweeters. the DLS's are huge tehe. 

you can't go wrong in any case, in your position i'd go with what i've heard, or what i know the most about, or do more research to try and narrow things down but theirs only so much you can learn with out listening to a driver.

but off the table of these choises ive only dealt with hybrid so i'd go with the R2's. but they are all good drivers from reputable company's.


----------



## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

Thanks for your input eviling. All the best for your system.


----------



## Xmaximum (Aug 7, 2010)

It's a Toss up between the Supremo and L1Pro r2. Mille is also good, but not in the league of Supremo's.

I have heared Mille and Supremo only. but having heared the HAT Clarus Tweeters, i have no doubts on the performance of L1Pro r2.


----------



## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

The clarius tweeters are very harsh and bright. I heard a pair in various locations and with the stock crossovers and active crossovers. Not impressed. I would put them into the same class as Polk. Just hearing someone say they sounded good leads me to discount their opinion.


----------



## Xmaximum (Aug 7, 2010)

BowDown said:


> The clarius tweeters are very harsh and bright. I heard a pair in various locations and with the stock crossovers and active crossovers. Not impressed. I would put them into the same class as Polk. Just hearing someone say they sounded good leads me to discount their opinion.


I felt Mille was even more Harsh. Clarus was sharp, no doubt but wasn't really harsh. BTW, heared all three of them in Active Setups.
I ve heared polk momo sereis in passive mode, i am doubly sure clarus is much better (in terms of harshness) than the polk.

Ultimately, in Active setups, it also boils down the Amp one is using and the location. The Clarus i heared sported the sexy Helix P400; Installed on A-pillar with 60 deg on axis. 

The Mille I heared was on a rare Nakamichi PA 2 Channel.

The Supremo Piccolo, was on an Audison Lrx.

Best of the lot was the Supremo,


----------



## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

Supremo's for me also...enjoyable to listen to!!

ML 280's are very nice also.... I rate them 2nd in the group you have listed

then HAT Tweets, they never really sounded very smooth to me, but lots of guys use them.


----------



## Ale555 (Sep 11, 2010)

I can also state that the R2´s are very easy to listen to. And the off axis response is really great!
I do like the "Morel-Soudn" also, but you cannot cut the faceplate of a Supremo. IF you cannot install it like that you´d be with a Supremo picollo.

I did choice the R2s over the Morels...

The Mille is not in that league, I´d say.


----------



## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

Thehatedguy is selling some scan illuminator tweets in the classifieds section right now. They are awesome. Great off axis response, very smooth and detailed. I've heard them in several competition cars. I almost got them for my car, but was trying to stay in budget and also wanted something i could ffully hide. I'd seriously give them a look, and would easily put them up against the hybrids or Hertz, which I've also heard in competition cars. I've not messed with the Morel piccolo's enough to say anything about them, but they don't seem to be optimum for your install anyway. You really need to lok at them though, i think you'd be really satisfied.


----------



## jimbno1 (Apr 14, 2008)

I just got a pair of HAT R2s and I have Illuminators, and ML280s, but unfortunately no Piccolos to listen to. I can do some subjective listening this weekend, but I think the lowest crossover I have is 2.8K. 

In previous listening I think I prefer the ML280 over the Illuminators but I did not level match them. So some of the preference may just be sensitivity. And it is really splitting hairs, both sounded great. I am not sure of the correct terminology but the ML280 seemed more detailed, but still very smooth. The Illuminators were darker and fuller for lack of better words. I cannot believe anyone would classify the ML280 as harsh. But we all have our preferences. Maybe at 2K the Illuminators might have an edge as they did have a little more full sound. 

I don't think you could go wrong in any case with the selection you have listed.

Jim


----------



## FG79 (Jun 30, 2008)

BowDown said:


> The clarius tweeters are very harsh and bright. I heard a pair in various locations and with the stock crossovers and active crossovers. Not impressed. I would put them into the same class as Polk. Just hearing someone say they sounded good leads me to discount their opinion.


Are you sure the tweeters were harsh or that you were hearing glare due to woofer cone breakup?

There's a difference between the two. Glare can usually be fixed by adjusting the crossover (lowering the transition point), whereas brightness would be cured usually by raising it. In a 2 way setup, it's harder to make these changes unless the woofer is capable of playing very high.


----------



## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

BowDown said:


> The clarius tweeters are very harsh and bright. I heard a pair in various locations and with the stock crossovers and active crossovers. Not impressed. I would put them into the same class as Polk. Just hearing someone say they sounded good leads me to discount their opinion.


Likewise!


----------



## Heath (May 3, 2009)

I can only speak to my experience with the Mille. They are very nice and are not harsh at all. Other nice thing is they can take some power. I have run them with up to 200 watts no problem. Also can handle being crossed over very low. I run mine at 2K with no problem and could play lower.


----------



## theothermike (Dec 20, 2006)

+1 to what is said above, look into the scan illuminators, but rather than buy thehatedguys if you didnt want to buy used (even though from what i seen every piece of equipment he has ever seemed to sold has looked brand new, and his knowledge of caraudio far exceeds anything i could dream of) if you wanted to buy new, look into the ring radiator version of them. they have a little better top end and a little less peaky response.

(ScanSpeak Illuminator R3004/6020-00 1" Tweeter Small Ring Radiator: Madisound Speaker Store)

they're pretty swell off axis with some slight ring radiator help, very shallow when you buy the compact version, (if you have beth to work with for your application, then buy the deep chambered ones.)

they get my vote for performance, quality, and sound, without any diminishing returns on price to high priced tweeters.

but to stay within your selection, its really between the supremos and hat's.

I personally would run the hat's only because I tend to run 3 way active and their midranges l4se and l3se make me cream my pants. the cdm-88 by morel is great, but not excellent, mostly because it has to crossed over a little higher, which makes it somewhat difficult to acheive a blend between the midbass and midrange.

Depending on your application of 2 way vs 3 way, for 2 way the supremos win hands down on the low end, and no fatiguing warmth they put out and they articulate the details very well but in a subtle way (great for hard rock which can get ear bleeding)

however for 3 ways the hat's are smaller, great with top end detail and off axis response which is hard for a lot of tweeters to achieve.) plus killer looks.

so in order of what you mentioned, id still go hat, supremo, scans , milles.

but depending on your application 2 vs 3 way it could go, supremo, hats, scans, milles


----------



## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

I can vouch for the illuminators.... Very nice

The Hybrids are an exceptional Tweeter as well... Very smooth, silky, and laid back. Not as Bright as some of the other HAT Tweeters. Although there is nothing wrong with the other HAT Tweeter's. I just prefer the Pro R2's, they suit my tastes the best.

Its a preference thing... Just like in the 90's some people loved MB Quart some hated it. Some people like a more in you're face type sound, some like a laid back sound. 

I like a laid back sound with a bit of sizzle, so something in between I suppose.

You need to get out and listen for yourself.... let you're ears be the judge, not someone elses, that's the best advise I can give you.


----------



## DinLuca (Nov 5, 2009)

I heard HAT and ML280 in the same setup, i found hat more eficient off-axis a bit less harsh than hertz's. 

Heard Piccollo in another setup i really like them, in my opninion it's as good as hat but with a bit more of salt. If you know what i mean.

But out of these three, i'd chose my own tweets, Scan's D3004/6020-00 these are the soft dome ones. THey are bright but not fatiguing, work quite well off-axis and cheaper than all others.


----------



## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the input so far.  I'd still like to hear more from anyone who has compared these.


----------



## matdotcom2000 (Aug 16, 2005)

I have had the new ml280s installed them and hated them.. Just did not sound up to par from my previous setup of the mt23s.. Now I run HAT L1R2 and love them.. Honestly I was originally not a HAT fan but after taking the dive to own them I must say I am sold!!!!


----------



## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

Hi, thanks heaps for all the input so far guys!  Looks like it's going to be down to the Supremo Piccolos or the HAT L1 Pro R2. 

I'm still looking for more input from anyone who has compared these two - particularly with respect to how laid back and easy to listen to they are. 

Any comparisons to my existing Alpine/Vifa XT19 tweeters would be very useful too. I am expecting both of these two replacement options to be superior in detail. What I love about the xt19 is that it is very smooth and easy to listen to - I'd hate to lose that.


----------



## TokoSpeaker (Nov 12, 2010)

With my humble opinion, I prefer to use HAT L1 PRO R2 than others.
Smooth and Silky..


----------



## SymbolA (Jul 30, 2009)

I had them both supremo and hat l1pro r2 for a month in my vehicle to compare them and see what I prefer.

finally i chose the l1pro r2, just sounds better to me.

but it's really your personal preference , both are great.


----------



## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

Thanks for your input SymbolA!  

Was it the Supremo or Supremo Piccolo that you had?

How low did you have them crossed over? 

Would you care to try to describe the differences? 

Which one would you say was smoother?


----------



## SymbolA (Jul 30, 2009)

I used the piccolo's and i think from my exprience with them that they will sound good from 3k-3.5k up, the full size supremo likely play lower better, the HAT play 2.5k very good! i dont know another small format tweeter that can play lower like that.
they both smooth but they very diffrent , in generly i preper the HAT becuse they feel to me more "live" and "airy" with smooth sound but very detaild.

i use a lot's of tweeter in my car for me the HAT R2 are the best tweeter i had.


----------



## nirschl (Apr 30, 2009)

SymbolA said:


> I used the piccolo's and i think from my exprience with them that they will sound good from 3k-3.5k up, the full size supremo likely play lower better, the HAT play 2.5k very good! i dont know another small format tweeter that can play lower like that.
> they both smooth but they very diffrent , in generly i preper the HAT becuse they feel to me more "live" and "airy" with smooth sound but very detaild.
> 
> i use a lot's of tweeter in my car for me the HAT R2 are the best tweeter i had.



Yep, that L6SE + L1ProR2 is a heck of a 2way combo.


----------



## piyush7243 (Sep 9, 2009)

I havent listened to Morel's but using HAT L1 Pro R2 in an active setup with P99 and crossed at 2.5k on A pillars. The off axis response is really great and smooth and no fatigue at all.


----------



## snaimpally (Mar 5, 2008)

denetnz said:


> Hi, I'm trying to decide between these three tweeters for a 2 way active stealth install.
> 
> Currently running SPX-177R comps, likely to change to W18NX mid/midbass, will probably like to crossover ~2KHz. Tweets are likely to be somewhat off axis in factory locations in sail panels. (stealth requirement)
> 
> ...


I have a lot of respect for Scott Buwalda and what he has done. That said, I owned the L1 pros and wanted to like them. I tried everything to get them to fit into my system but could not get them to blend properly. They are very detailed tweeters, to the point of being obnoxious. I tried crossing them high, backing them off, everything. Nothing worked. Perhaps they work well with the HAT woofers.

Several local folks have the Supremos and so I have heard them many times. Very detailed, upfront mid-range sound. Very nice but not my cup of tea. A bit too much mid-range and not enough high-end sparkle for me.

May I suggest an alternative to the 3 that you are considering? I have tried many tweeters, including the Seas RT27F from the Lotus set, and one of the finest tweeters in the price range you are looking at is the Scanspeak Illuminator.

The Scans were originally priced much higher but then a price drop after about a year led to their current price of $125/each. For $250/pair, the Scan Illums will *kick the ass *of almost every other tweeter out there under $1000/pair. They are very smooth and have superb imaging. I tried a lot of tweeters before settling on the Sca Illums. Just buy them and be done with it. Pretty sure I posted a review in the review section - go check it out.


----------



## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your input.  

Some have suggested Scan Illuminators, but I am not considering these, due to poor off axis response.

I think I'm getting close to a decision, but any further input on HAT L1 Pro R2 vs Supremo Piccolo would still be of value.


----------



## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

If you need the sparkle even off-axis, then you only have 1 option: The HAT L1 Pro R2

Just looked at the Supremo's manual and @ 30°, the response drops quite a bit... 

Kelvin


----------



## snaimpally (Mar 5, 2008)

denetnz said:


> Thanks everyone for your input.
> 
> Some have suggested Scan Illuminators, but I am not considering these, due to poor off axis response.
> 
> I think I'm getting close to a decision, but any further input on HAT L1 Pro R2 vs Supremo Piccolo would still be of value.


How far off-axis are you mounting them? I think you are making a mistake going only off response curves to make a decision. The L1 Pro looked real good on paper, which is why I bought it. That experience taught me that you can't go by response curves alone. But sounds like you have already made up your mind. Never understood why people ask for opinions and then dismiss the reccomendations they get! Go ahead, get the L1 Pros based on the great off-axis curves. Good luck!!!


----------



## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

My tweeters will be very off axis - on the drivers side, the tweeter will be 60 degrees off axis. I certainly don't mean to disregard opinions provided, it's just that all of the response charts I've seen for Illuminators are not just a little poor of axis, but quite shockingly bad - with heavy roll off from 10K. I don't doubt for a minute that they sound great, but I don't think they would be ideal in my installation. I appologise if I have offended anyone by my dismissal of this option.

I'm quite certain Supremo Piccolo will deliver the detailed non fatiguing sound that I'm looking for, but I am concerned that the off axis response may have some limitations (though it's not nearly as bad as the Illuminators). I have Morel drivers in my home audio system, which I am very happy with.

I absolutely agree that I should not buy purely based on response charts. I'd love to audition each these myself, but flying overseas to do so would cost more than buying three sets of tweeters. 

Some have mentioned the L1 Pro in this thread. From all accounts I've read, the L1 Pro R2 is a completely different sounding tweeter to the L1 Pro in terms of being non fatiguing.

I am considering the L1 Pro R2 in the hope that it will deliver the same level of detailed non fatiguing sound as the Supremo Piccolo, but with benefits of better off axis response and easier installation (I'd need to cut the faceplate of the Supremo to make them fit the factory location). This is the assumption that I am trying to valildate with this thread. Any assistance with validating this assumption is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Soul79 (Aug 28, 2011)

Ive been following this thread for a while. I've been trying to decide between piccolo's or L1 Pro R2's myself. Anyone else have time with both?


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

ANY ring radiating tweeter is going to have poor off axis response, it is the nature of the ring radiator.

Off axis response is also dictated by the size of the speaker. All 1" tweeters will more or less have the same off axis response. I picked the 1" Scan domes FOR their off axis response...they are some of the best that I have found. The 1" Scans are pretty flat up to 14-15k even at 60 degrees off axis...I don't know what you are looking for, but that is exceptional performance and they will play low for you.

You are really needing a 3/4" tweeter for your off axis needs...but getting a 3/4" tweeter to play to 2k is wishful at best, even the best of the best- Scan Illuminator dome and the Hiquphon won't really like playing that low. 

Your only other choice would be a waveguide loaded tweeter like the exceptional Seas DXT tweeter.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Evling...the DLS Scandinavia tweeter is/was the Peerless HDS tweeter. It's now called the Scan Speak Discovery D2608/9130.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

And if you are putting them in your sail panels, you need to also be concerned with the physical size of the tweeter- diameter AND depth. The Piccolos and HATs aren't exactly shallow tweeters. The Scan is the most compact of the bunch that are small faceplate and can play low.

A 1" or more depth may not seem that bad until you stick that puppy up on the sail panel, and all of a sudden you realize how much of a PITA it is going to be to make it look good.

And in about the same space you put the Scan, you could put an Aurasound Whisper and cross them as low as you would want...300 in pairs works, 6-800 works in singles.


----------



## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

agreed on the scans. Every install I've heard them has been off axis, and they have rocked. Until you've heard them, you're shooting yourself in the foot for not even considering them. If I had the extra cash, I'd have bought the ones from thehatedguy just to have them, and I have no complaints with my tweets at all.


----------



## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

Thanks for all the input guys. Does anyone else have anything to add?


----------



## Clazaudio (Nov 23, 2011)

Yeah now that you had it for a while, how do you like the L1 Pro R2.


----------



## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

I prefer Morel Supremo very smooth and do not sound harsh on/off axis. Thx


----------



## Clazaudio (Nov 23, 2011)

Yeah Morel Supremo is nice but I have DynAudio Esotec 242gt with Morel Ultimo 12 now and it sounds awesome.

Still thinking Supremo though


----------



## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

Clazaudio said:


> Yeah Morel Supremo is nice but I have DynAudio Esotec 242gt with Morel Ultimo 12 now and it sounds awesome.
> 
> Still thinking Supremo though


Can't go wrong with Esotec and Esotar 

IMHO Morel, Dynaudio also Audio Technology have similarity in their sound signature. So it's a matter of subjective taste/preferences.


----------



## Clazaudio (Nov 23, 2011)

What sub have you got? What amps are you using to power your Supremos and sub? Are you running it active or passive?

Have you considered Crescendos speakers - they are highly regarded here in the SQ comps.

Cheers


----------



## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

I have Morel Ultimo 12" Subwoofer drive by McIntosh MCC4000 M and 2 Butler TD 2150 for Morel Supremo tweeter and Esotec midbass. All Active setup using heavily modified custom signal processor.

Yeach I've heard Cresendo speaker have good reputation in Australia for SQ Competition.

Best Regards

Wendo


----------



## Clazaudio (Nov 23, 2011)

That's some very nice gear there especially the rare MCC4000 M. I'll speak with you more. Interesting to note your speakers combination. I bet they sound very good.


----------



## Clazaudio (Nov 23, 2011)

So you have the Supremo Piccolo and Esotec MW162 as a 2 way active front end. Presumably you had the MW102 Esotec tweeter before.

How much better is it switching over to the Supremo tweeters.
I'm keen hence I'm asking these questions. In fact I'm keen on replacing the Esotec 242gt with the Supremo 6 if there is much difference.


----------



## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

Clazaudio said:


> So you have the Supremo Piccolo and Esotec MW162 as a 2 way active front end. Presumably you had the MW102 Esotec tweeter before.
> 
> How much better is it switching over to the Supremo tweeters.
> I'm keen hence I'm asking these questions. In fact I'm keen on replacing the Esotec 242gt with the Supremo 6 if there is much difference.


Yeah I have MD102 tweeter that I will keep for spare. It is actually smooth and very comfort tweeter to listen to. But when I replaced it with supremo I have more detailed sounding tweeter on and off axis but still comfort to listen to. 

Actually I have Dynaudio Esotar E430 and Scanspeak 12M midrange. So I will try to setup 3 way in my Nissan X-trail.

Please do not hesitate to discuss with me Bro

Best regards

Wendo


----------



## denetnz (Jul 31, 2009)

Clazaudio said:


> Yeah now that you had it for a while, how do you like the L1 Pro R2.


I'm absolutely loving my new L1 Pro R2 / Illuminator 18WU front stage. It's seriously rocking my world and everything I had hoped for. Both drivers are a massive step up from my old SPX-177R set (this was the set with XT19 tweeters). 

The tweeters are incredibly smooth. I have very sensitive ears and I'm now comfortably listening at very high levels with them around 30 degrees off axis. I suspect I'm listening quite a bit louder now that everything is so much cleaner. (and I'm slightly concerned about just how loud that is)

The Illuminators are just incredible. Crossing at 50Hz, the bottom end is simply amazing - rock solid, punchy and defined. Likewise, the midrange is beautifully detailed and smooth too.


----------



## Clazaudio (Nov 23, 2011)

That's good to hear. Those are choice equipment too which has obviously been correctly installed and tuned.

Congrats on a nice sound system and thanks for the feedback on the HAT L1 Pro R2 tweeters.


----------



## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

denetnz said:


> I'm absolutely loving my new L1 Pro R2 / Illuminator 18WU front stage. It's seriously rocking my world and everything I had hoped for. Both drivers are a massive step up from my old SPX-177R set (this was the set with XT19 tweeters).
> 
> The tweeters are incredibly smooth. I have very sensitive ears and I'm now comfortably listening at very high levels with them around 30 degrees off axis. I suspect I'm listening quite a bit louder now that everything is so much cleaner. (and I'm slightly concerned about just how loud that is)
> 
> The Illuminators are just incredible. Crossing at 50Hz, the bottom end is simply amazing - rock solid, punchy and defined. Likewise, the midrange is beautifully detailed and smooth too.



Congratz Bro, enjoy your music!


----------



## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

To keep this thread alive for tweeter review information I purchased the Scanspeak D3004/6020-00 1" soft dome non-deep chamber tweeters based on snaimpally's, zaph and other reviews. 
Madisound Speaker Store 
I'll post a full member review once they are broken/tuned in because the reviews of many Scanspeak tweeters on this site are somewhat out of date. 
These particular drivers show a very decent off-axis response on the frequency plots and listening seems to confirm it. 
After weeks of searching for a high end tweeter to replace my Focals (just tired of the metallic sound) it was between these and the Hiquphons. The idea of Oskar Wender the crafstman in Denmark crafting up these tweeters sounded quite charming but I did read that their "detail" is because of coloration from IM distortion. 

After about an hour of trying to dial in and listen to reference material I found the new Scanspeaks very promising. When called on in the source material they will fill the air with pleasing high frequency sounds- and that's how I would describe them right now- very pleasing FWIW, bright with no harshness whatsoever and bright yet still very much blended with the rest of the sound, almost like the high end was smoothly boosted in the mix of the recording without sounding overbearing. 
I did try to cross them low- e.g. 2K, 2.5K and 3K but the front stage (mids in lower doors, tweeters far away in upper doors) did not sound as good as when crossed over higher- I settled in on 4K, 18db slope for now. 
It's too bad because I was trying to low pass cut the Focal mid below 3K because above that it starts breaking up. Even with the break up the system still sounds better with the Focal mid crossed at 4K 12db. 
Really not a deal breaker so far, the Scanspeaks are off to a promising start as THE tweeter to bring it all home.


----------



## abdulwq (Aug 17, 2008)

i liked brax matirx over piccolo


----------



## adrenalinejunkie (Oct 17, 2010)

Those Scan speak's are tempting. Great thread.


----------



## Hoptologist (Sep 14, 2012)

thehatedguy said:


> ANY ring radiating tweeter is going to have poor off axis response, it is the nature of the ring radiator.


Since the HAT L1 Pro R2 is a ring radiator does it too have poor off axis? I thought the reason why it was on the OP's list was because the L1 Pro R2 had really good off axis response?

edit: Just read the manual, looks like it does have great off axis.

Just wanted to add, I saw people in this thread say that the L1 Pro R2 is HAT's smoothest/sweetest sounding tweeter, but a user on the hybrid forums said that the L1 Pro R2 has a more hard/metallic sound compared to the L1 Pro. Hard/metallic sounds like the opposite of smooth/sweet... not sure what to think.


----------



## avanti1960 (Sep 24, 2011)

I had the scans and really liked them. when i upgraded to the L3SE mids the scans would not fit on the sail panels.
bought the boston acoustics ISTS kortec 1" dome tweeters- 
they sound better than the scans at 1/3 of the price.


----------



## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Hoptologist said:


> Since the HAT L1 Pro R2 is a ring radiator does it too have poor off axis? I thought the reason why it was on the OP's list was because the L1 Pro R2 had really good off axis response?
> 
> edit: Just read the manual, looks like it does have great off axis.
> 
> Just wanted to add, I saw people in this thread say that the L1 Pro R2 is HAT's smoothest/sweetest sounding tweeter, but a user on the hybrid forums said that the L1 Pro R2 has a more hard/metallic sound compared to the L1 Pro. Hard/metallic sounds like the opposite of smooth/sweet... not sure what to think.



The Pro R2 is the one you want if your looking for smooth, laid back yet detailed sound. IMO, it's the best Hybrid tweeter by far.

They work well off axis, but as mentioned any ring radiator tweeter has its limits with off axis response, but the Pro R2's seem to be better than most when it comes to off axis response.


----------



## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

I would like to give my take on this subject and here is why: 

Being Israeli I guess you probably understand that Morel are a matter of pride for me as it is a brand made in Israel (well some in china but factory is here). 

I had a lot of Morel speakers -

I had the Millenium (it then turned to pulse later on and now it is tempo) 
I had the dotech MT22
I had the Elate sw6 + cdm54 + MT23 

And then I had the Omega-Audio (also Israeli) which are also knonw at the US as Ren-Audio (Morel USA) -> CR101 tweeters which are actually equivalent to the Supremo (not the picollo). same motor, same xover points and wattage, same face plate same everything as it seems. 


But, a very good friend of mine is also the local dealer of HAT over here that means I also had a lot of HAT: 

Imagine 2way installed.
I had the L1 (8 ohm original version) with L-Pads
Clarus C.5 + L3SE tweeterless
L6+L4+L1PRO-R2 and then the L4 was replaced by L4SE 

I had the Elate + CR101 about three years - 

Oh the sound! simply wanted to stretch a bed in my car and just be "laid back" 

But the sound of Morel is not smooth, it is warm, it is soft, it is so human and relaxing but it is not smooth, in fact in every step of the frequency range these speakers are so warm and that means they are not that clear, they are not smooth.

Nevertheless, it is a sound you can easily get addicted to! 

Morel speakers are not that good at 2 way setups, I prefer them much at 3 way setups, even though they are using wide band tweeters, they don't really go well under 3.2Khz and under 2.5Khz they start to get dirty. 

If you choose a morel setup 2 way - make sure it is the supremo only or at least the supremo midbasses.

Then I turned to HAT - 

I learned a very nice trick with HAT tweeters and that is, if you want them smooth and laid back -> simply slope them at 6db at 20Khz, I even prefered to cut them at 16Khz at 6 db. 

It does wonders to them in terms of relaxing them a bit - they become PERFECT as they are super detailed and the slope above takes all the harshness away. 

The only HAT tweeter which does not really require that treatment is the R2 - it is SUPERB and yet, I do cut it at 18KHz 6db slope even still.


But there is one thing you need to take in mind - you are comparing a ring radiator tweeter to a soft dome tweeter.

You can not expect a soft dome to be as detailed as a ring radiator - you simply can't. but if you will cut a ring radiator the way I suggested above, it would be as smooth as a ring radiator but relaxed as a soft dome.

So I would strongly support the R2 option with the suggested xover treatment above.

But morel are morel and NOBODY, I mean NO BODY can take that away from them - that wonderful signature which I really miss.


So, my Mind is saying HAT - I just know they sound better, more correct.
My heart is saying M-O-R-E-L!!!


----------



## chaser9478 (Aug 16, 2011)

I am surprised no one has suggested rainbow. The cal26 titans, the metal ones are the best metal tweet I have heard. They would be at home in a 2 or 3way. I am usually a soft dome person. I fell in love with the cal26, they don't sound as full as I like below 3k. The cal27, a silk tweet is legendary for smooth off axis response, not as airy or detail as the cal26 but really nice.

That being said, I just bought a set of scan d2904's, mainly because of their rep. I got a good deal so I want to see what all the fuss is about....That and they cross low. I am using a 2way with a dyn 650. The cal26 doesn't blend as well with the dyn as it did with the rainbow metal cone 6.5. The dyn sounds better, just not with the cal26.


----------



## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

chaser9478 said:


> I am surprised no one has suggested rainbow. The cal26 titans, the metal ones are the best metal tweet I have heard. They would be at home in a 2 or 3way. I am usually a soft dome person. I fell in love with the cal26, they don't sound as full as I like below 3k. The cal27, a silk tweet is legendary for smooth off axis response, not as airy or detail as the cal26 but really nice.
> 
> That being said, I just bought a set of scan d2904's, mainly because of their rep. I got a good deal so I want to see what all the fuss is about....That and they cross low. I am using a 2way with a dyn 650. The cal26 doesn't blend as well with the dyn as it did with the rainbow metal cone 6.5. The dyn sounds better, just not with the cal26.



You will love the Scan's


----------



## dylan199 (Apr 17, 2012)

DAT said:


> You will love the Scan's


Would you suggest I get rid of my Cal27s and pick up a pair of Scans?


----------



## chaser9478 (Aug 16, 2011)

You know, I am expecting that the cal27 and the scans have a simular sound. I am sure they each have their own signature but close over all. 

It really was a toss up for me. I just came across a deal on the scans. In my install I am really limited on size. I couldn't get away with one of the large tweets, like the dynaudio 110.

The 27 is nice, very nice. I love the cal26 too. Its not your everyday metal tweet. Rainbow makes really great equipment.


----------



## dylan199 (Apr 17, 2012)

chaser9478 said:


> You know, I am expecting that the cal27 and the scans have a simular sound. I am sure they each have their own signature but close over all.
> 
> It really was a toss up for me. I just came across a deal on the scans. In my install I am really limited on size. I couldn't get away with one of the large tweets, like the dynaudio 110.
> 
> The 27 is nice, very nice. I love the cal26 too. Its not your everyday metal tweet. Rainbow makes really great equipment.


Im hoping to run across a deal on a pair of Scans. Then I could do a sound comparison and sell the set I don't use.


----------



## chaser9478 (Aug 16, 2011)

They should be very close. I love rainbow tweets. You might be better off to keep the cal27's and get the 6.9 woofer that they come in a 2way with. That set has a nice sound and that woofer has the midbass of a modest 8. Its a monster.


----------



## badfish (Dec 9, 2011)

For what it's worth I'll say Morels. I just used them to win the 2012 Isaca west coast championship in the pro-am class. Anyone who says they are not detailed needs to hear my car.


----------



## chaser9478 (Aug 16, 2011)

The big ones or the little ones?


----------



## badfish (Dec 9, 2011)

Piccolos


----------



## chaser9478 (Aug 16, 2011)

Before its over I would love to own everything just once! Lol


----------



## DAT (Oct 8, 2006)

dylan199 said:


> Would you suggest I get rid of my Cal27s and pick up a pair of Scans?


Personally I would not use any Rainbow speakers, second if you have the room try the Scans. the Piccolo's are excellent tweets also.


----------



## chaser9478 (Aug 16, 2011)

Why no love for rainbow? You are the only person I have heard say anything bad about rainbow. I have had a bunch of rainbow stuff and its all been really good. Not dyn good, but good.


----------



## bongbut (May 15, 2012)

I have two pairs of Hat L1 Pro R2 now, because of all opinons discuss.


----------



## oakkar8 (Sep 12, 2012)

eviling said:


> I had a set of R2's for a whole 10 mins, one of them was dead. i can tell you my opinoon based on what i did hear though out of the working driver.
> 
> they were VERY effortless drivers, with very clean sound, absolutely no harshness , you already know they do great off axis with very smooth responses. personly though, i'm not sure if i'm gonna stick with them. I'm thinking about the DLS Scandinavians but you're looking for smaller tweeters. the DLS's are huge tehe.
> 
> ...



u sold me that dead pair???


----------

