# Thoughts on old school Kicker



## tbomb

I was wondering what some of the opinions around here were regarding the ZR series amps and the old Resolution components. Reason being, I have used the amps for a long time now along with Comp (c series) and Solobaric (c and d series) subs of all sizes. I have loved the gear, but afraid it is just because i havent used much else. Very first system was Kicker Impulse and then moved up from there. A little Infinity stuff thrown in from time to time, but usually as temporary fixes. I have always wanted the Resolution's but can never find them. well, i found a set of 5.25 BNIB for a pretty good price along with a brand new set of the ND25a tweeters.

My plan is to purchase these and run them off my ZX460 using a TWX module and 2 Competition C10c subs on my ZR240 w/SWX module. Now I know this isnt equipment like most of you are running but I would still like to hear your opinions. 
Vehicle is a 03 grand am cpe, HU is Alpine W200. Components will be in stock locations. May attempt putting tweets in custo A-pillar pod.


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## durwood

Kicker ZR amps are a great amp. I see no reason to change them unless you need more power or space.

The design was very simple, robust and delivers what it promises.

I'd still be using them if I had the space.

Can't comment on the speakers, never used them.


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## Ge0

I think they are excellent amps. I've owned many of that series. But, as Durwood eluded to, they are rather large. If you have room for them great.

Another added bonus. You can find replacement electronics for them around here fairly easy if something should happen in the future .

Ge0


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## haibane

Besides if all else fails I have some old school alpine amps you could try.


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## Fellippe

From two reliable sources, Kicker C series subs kicked serious ass, and are better than many subs available right now.


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## quality_sound

Yep, big and powerful and I don't think I ever saw one break. I LOVE the ZR/ZX amps and the original Resolutions. I wasn't as big a fan of the set you could mount coaxially, but they weren't really that bad.


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## GlasSman

Fellippe said:


> From two reliable sources, Kicker C series subs kicked serious ass, and are better than many subs available right now.



Make that 3 sources. C-12's kick ass! Excellent transient response and blend very well with front stage. VERY similar to IDQ but not as loud and need a larger enclosure.

Not sure if they're better than anything available today. Thats taking it a little too far.

Maybe I'll do an old school vs errr.....newer school sub shootout once the Spring rolls around.


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## tbomb

that shootout would be great to see. I've always felt like the old stuff was/is better than at least the crap you get at the big box stores. Naturally, we all know where to get the good stuff.

I do have a C12c, one of the anniversary models with the chrome solobaric basket. Had a pair, but my brother ripped a hole in the surround. I think the two 10's will be perfect for me. Maybe even add the 12 to them. (i know i am gonna get crap for that statement) The only issue i have with them is the amount of airspace they require.

Not too many comments about the Resolutions. These are the original (i think) made in USA by Stillwater mids and tweets. NIB costing me $160. Doesnt include the passive crossovers but will use the module for that. Should I spend the cash or can you suggest something better for that kind of money. Honestly though, the decision is a little nostalgic than anything. Just tell me I wont be sorry/dissappointed.


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## GlasSman

tbomb said:


> Not too many comments about the Resolutions. These are the original (i think) made in USA by Stillwater mids and tweets. NIB costing me $160. Doesnt include the passive crossovers but will use the module for that. Should I spend the cash or can you suggest something better for that kind of money. Honestly though, the decision is a little nostalgic than anything. Just tell me I wont be sorry/dissappointed.


While the Resolution seperates were damn good back then, I wouldn't spend $160 for them in this day unless you were collecting old school Kicker gear.

Now a set of Soundstream Exact components....thats a different story.


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## quality_sound

GlasSman said:


> Now a set of Soundstream Exact components....thats a different story.


Troof! The OG Exacts were off the chain.


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## jking29

Fellippe said:


> From two reliable sources, Kicker C series subs kicked serious ass, and are better than many subs available right now.


They did, and they are. However, I switched over to JL w6 v1's back when they first came out in the early-mid 90's. I loved my C series Kickers, but the first time I heard the w6 I was like  The transient response was similar, they required less box space and they would walk all over the Kicker C's on output. The original w6 is one of my all time favorites. I still have a 12w6 v1 that I am going to be using in a budget daily beater system. I do still have a pair of 12" Kicker xpl's, the version that used the basket and motor from the original solo's. My better half is beating them to death daily in her Jetta, and she is harder than me on stereo equipment. She came home one day this past summer saying her stereo quit. I went out to check it out and found that she had been pulling enough current to start melting the inline fuse!  She has been beating on them for about 1-1/2 years and hers is the 4-5 car they have been in. Old school Kicker will take a beating and keep on coming.


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## drake78

IMO, the ZR/ZX series are current hogs and runs hot. The build quality is great but they too are big in physical size. The SQ is only mediocure. I would go with something more effecient and has better SQ.


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## tbomb

Well, the amps are staying unless some awesome amp drops in my lap. I have them and they have performed flawlessly for years. Never had any issue with heat and they will fit perfectly mounted on a rack behind my seats. Not to say they arent hefty, but the two i have dont have to big a footprint. If I was talking about a ZR600 or ZR1000, yeah those things are huge! As far as SQ they are rated better than most any amp out currently....of course regarding money as a factor. Plus, I dont have ridiculous power requirements so that keeps heat a non issue as well. My subs are comps...not solos so the ZR240 will be plenty of power and using a ZX460 for the components.

I know I asked opinions, so i am not trying to argue with the help given, please understand that. But I guess i wanted more info regarding the crossover modules and the Components. I see a lot of folks using 18db or lower slopes around hear. The kicker modules are all 24db, with the exception of the ZRX. I was going on blind faith that Kicker knew what they were doing, but this type of tuning capability didnt last. IIRC, Xtant had a similar style back in the day.


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## MazDAMN

I have a ZR600 and 4 s12d solobarics...single 8ohm. The 600 had a bad SWX module, and was shorting the amp in/out, which caused damage to the amp, so I had my repairman fix it for me, and he determined it was the SWX...so he internally bypassed it. I have 2 solos in a downfire box that was in my silverado, I put the ZR600 on them, bridged, and it was the best I've heard from those solos. My 600 is MINT....other than it has no end caps, or kicker badge. Its the model with the brushed fins...


And yes, I think the old Competition subs were the best...then the XPL, then the Solobarics....I'd love to have the old comps....but I recently, as of Wednesday, got in 4 CVX 12s...


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## Infinity

You can still buy the equivilents of the old-school Kicker drivers directly from their former buildhouse. Yes, they were great drivers, but there is better out. I LOVE the old Resolution components, and the old putty-grey amplifiers.

BTW, I still have 2 sets of the Exact components from the Partsexpress buyout


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## MazDAMN

Old round solobarics, still made...they even have the square subs too, lol.
http://credencespeakers.com/Merchan...n=CTGY&Store_Code=CSI&Category_Code=SM_Sealed


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## vwguy383

MazDAMN said:


> Old round solobarics, still made...they even have the square subs too, lol.
> Credence Speakers, Inc.: <font color = 000000>Small Sealed Series<br>


What do you mean they are still made? Did these guys make the subs for Kicker? Or are they just really close to what the Kickers use to be?


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## MazDAMN

vwguy383 said:


> What do you mean they are still made? Did these guys make the subs for Kicker? Or are they just really close to what the Kickers use to be?





Same exact specs. Friend of mine had 4 single 8ohm solos, they were old, but still knocked. Well, he redid the looks in his truck, and while he was at it, he bought 4 single 4 ohm models. And according to the meter and the ear, DRASTIC improvement. Maybe from age and ohm load combined. He said to me that it would have been the same if he got the 4 ohm models from the beginning. So, yeah, those are the solos, just no logos and such. Its the exact same. They didnt make them for kicker, they just copied what kicker had. (Damn good idea, imo)


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## Infinity

MazDAMN said:


> Same exact specs. Friend of mine had 4 single 8ohm solos, they were old, but still knocked. Well, he redid the looks in his truck, and while he was at it, he bought 4 single 4 ohm models. And according to the meter and the ear, DRASTIC improvement. Maybe from age and ohm load combined. He said to me that it would have been the same if he got the 4 ohm models from the beginning. So, yeah, those are the solos, just no logos and such. Its the exact same. They didnt make them for kicker, they just copied what kicker had. (Damn good idea, imo)


No, they actually manufactured them for Kicker. Credence is a buildhouse just like Eminence, Pioneer, DST, Resonance, etc.


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## Jroo

They built for kicker. I bought some cleareance speakers from them a few years back and everything came in Kicker boxes, just no logos on the subs. I still cant let my 15" solobaric go. Everyone says you can get better, but I have to see and hear a new school vs. old school to believe that. I remember hearing the old resolution seperates active and they sounded really good, but that was damn near 10 years ago. Im thinking 4 8" credence in a bandpass possibly.


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## vwguy383

Infinity said:


> No, they actually manufactured them for Kicker. Credence is a buildhouse just like Eminence, Pioneer, DST, Resonance, etc.


Wow I never knew that about kicker. Who else did Credence build for?

Thanks
Justind


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## Infinity

vwguy383 said:


> Wow I never knew that about kicker. Who else did Credence build for?
> 
> Thanks
> Justind


Lanzar, SoundStream, Bostwick, and Sundown are a few that I know of. I'm sure there were many others.


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## vwguy383

Infinity said:


> Lanzar, SoundStream, Bostwick, and Sundown are a few that I know of. I'm sure there were many others.


What series did they make for Soundstream? I love old school SS stuff. Didn't a speaker builder named Vifa or something like that build for them too. Maybe that was just there smaller stuff. Sorry to get off the Kicker subject. I also like old school Kicker stuff. I have been kicking around (no pun intended) the idea of either SS subs or Kicker for my car. But if these Credence subs are the same as old school Kicker then maybe I'll just get them considering they are newer in age.

Thanks
Justind


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## ISO

My love for old school Kicker is out of this world and by far my most favorite amps were the ZR amps.
Yes they do have their negatives but what company doesn't.

Dealling with Kicker first hand, they have been the best company I have ever dealt with.
Customer service has been great to me.

Man lets see if I can even remember what Kicker products I have used.

2 A-series Competion 10s.
2 C-series Competion 10s. and my favorites.
2 SS40s bridged out, one for the left and one for the right.
In 99 I got my first Kicker ZR360 and most favorite amp to this day. Infact I have had a total of 4 at one point but I'm now back down to 2 and will use these in my dream car.
1999 I got 2 XPL-C series of coarse ran off a ZR360 for a 2 ohm load.
Last year (2008) I got a hook up and was able to get 2 more brand new never opened 12 inch XPL C-series 4 ohm subs again and plan to use them in my new house speakers.
some time around 2001 I got the upgraded and what I call the real Comp VR 10s.( not the CompVR that was actually the Competition D-series)

I have ran every and I mean every Solo-Baric L7 10 with exception of the new 2008 L7 10s. So far the original 2000 series and 2006 series are my favorites.
I have one set (2)of the Alma Gates Signature series L7 10s, 40 pounds apiece and actually have very good sound quality.

2002 and 2003 Kicker Comps.

Total amps combined I have 1- ZR120, 1-ZR240, 2- ZR360s, 1 ZR1000 modded for 18 volt useage and was on Alma's Beast. Got to get a ZR600 still but broke and can get them brand new.

Kicker Resolution RS5 Component set from 2001 and my Tweets R25s are still working.

1998 Kicker Competion C-series 6.5s.

And if I look hard enough I'm sure I still have more.

ZR amps are my favorite amps of all time and I will be proud to use them again but they will not make it into my newest install which is actually a old beatup 1988 Chevy K3500 work truck with no cut through.
I keep destroying my Honda's(LOL user error) I swear I don't think they like guard rails or being flipped off of 15 foot imbankments and landing upside down in creeks.

My Truck is great though and I'm very proud of it. Even though some of you people might laugh at it you won't when you realize that I'm not going to have all the suspension upgrades alot of other will suffer from. LOL


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## Brian10962001

I have had every single Kicker amp I ever owned quit on me. I have no idea why but that's how it went. The most recent victim was one of the new style 600 watt mono amps, it just went into protect while cruising along one day and never came out. I've owned an original X100, an X50 (didn't die I swapped it out fast) 3 ZR series amps, and the 600.1 was the last straw I'll never own another. On the other side of the story a friend of mine is still running the Punch 800 I bought back in like 02. I have had 1 punch amplifier quit on me and that was completely my fault (installed power wires when it was screwed to the amp rack in the truck, reverse polarity on inputs = magic smoke). 

On the credence speakers they are solidly built. I actually talked to Credence about attempting a recone on an 06 L7 solo baric, they said "send it in we'll see what we can do". Great company to deal with. My current setup in the Blazer is a pair of Pro Box (original W6 baskets and spiders, probably even cones with a rubber surround and gasket plus single 4 ohm coil) being feed a fat 600 watts each and I have yet to hurt them. I encourage all of you to buy from Credence if you need a solid driver, the prices are a bit high but the stuff is American built quality goods plus great customer service.


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## quality_sound

Infinity said:


> Lanzar, SoundStream, Bostwick, and Sundown are a few that I know of. I'm sure there were many others.




They didn't make everything for SS. I know SS got the parts for the Exacts from a buildhouse but then did some extra machining in-house and did all the assembly of them there as well. I'm pretty sure their other subs were all made by someone else though.


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## ISO

Guys if I'm not mistaken I believe that the Si and SS seriers were based on ADS design philosophy but that is all I know.

Can't tell you if ADS built the original SI amps or if Kicker worked hand and hand with them in the development of the amps.

After 14 years that is the only rumor that I have ever heard and we all know ADS made some great stuff back in the early 90's.

This is just a theory but the 97 and up ZR and XS amps were all Stillwater Designs Kicker amplifiers.


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## jbholsters

I'm not too big a fan of the Ref 6.5" components. I have a set that was bought about 10 years ago and I recently put them in my wife's car. In this instance, as in the other car they were in (150 watts to each set in both installs run active) the midbass was lacking. Don't care for the tweeters either.

As for old school Kicker subs, the early C series are great. I used to have 2 15's in an Isobaric enclosure in my home listening room matches up to a pair of Martin Logan electrostats.


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## Robb

Sorry to bring this up, but I just bought a BNIB never powered up Kicker s12d 2 ohm solobaric sub. Can't wait to get it ! 

Should I use a 1.1 cu/ft sealed box ? Or the recomended 0.88 cu/ft ? Im gonna be throwing 900 watts @ 2ohm mono from a Zapco Z300 C2. 

Pics of said sub !


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## Brian10962001

Give it the extra space


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## audiosaurus

Hi there. With regards to old school SOUNDSTREAM SUBWOOFERS, was it not built and designed by GLEN STASKY from Northern California Audio Labratories. Who made the SOUNDSTREAM SS611 and the EXACTS after that?


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## quality_sound

Robb said:


> Sorry to bring this up, but I just bought a BNIB never powered up Kicker s12d 2 ohm solobaric sub. Can't wait to get it !
> 
> Should I use a 1.1 cu/ft sealed box ? Or the recomended 0.88 cu/ft ? Im gonna be throwing 920 watts @ 2ohm mono from a Zapco Z300 C2.
> 
> Pics of said sub !





Brian10962001 said:


> Give it the extra space


Do NOT run it in a 1.1cf box unless you're looking to change subs again soon. The older Solos, like the c- and d-series, sound great in the recommended boxes. Not to mention you're overpowering the piss out of it. Big box + too much power = blown Solos. Every time. L7s are a whole other ball of wax.


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## Robb

Brian10962001 said:


> Give it the extra space


They say the bigger the box is built (within reason) the less watts you need.
Since I'll have about 900 watts on tap, should I just build the recommended 0.88 cu/ft ?
Or will the sub sound deeper/better with a slightly larger box ?
Btw the sub can handle 600 watts.

http://www.kicker.com/sites/default/files/SolodMan.pdf 
__________________


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## quality_sound

See my post above. If you want I can scan the tech manual page for the S12d. It says .88 cf up to, I believe, 600 Watts. Over that you go down to .66cf. Yes, .66 cf. With 900 Watts in a 1.1 cf box you're GOING to break it.


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## Robb

What if I just build the 0.88 box, no polyfill inside, and keep the gains all the way down ?


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## quality_sound

The gains have no bearing on the amount of power the amp will make. You'll be able to tell when you're overdriving the sub but for the sake of safety, I'd try the .66cf first. Build the box to .88cf and put some 2x4s in there to bring it down to .66cf and see how you like it and then try it at .88cf and see which you like better. 

If you decide on the .88cf, you're going to have to be careful. Hell, even with the .66cf you're going to have to be careful but less so than with the .88cf.


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## Robb

Maybe I should just use 1 channel of the amp then. ? 

heres the specs of the amp..

spec sheets..

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4627/83147775.jpg
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3974/46619991.jpg


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## Qyota

Ahh, the old Solo. Brings back some good memories. Had an 88 CRX Si with a single 15" solo powered by a ZR600. Those were the days!


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## ReloadedSS

Back in my younger days, one of my amps was a Kicker Impulse. When I decided to move up, my research led me to the ZR series. Totally decided that was the way to go. I call around to different shops, until I stopped into a shop that also sold Xtant (and Soundstream). Well, a half-hour education later, punctuated by the cost savings with going with Xtant over Kicker...and I was rolling Xtant. Nothing wrong with the Kicker amps (as they were my first choice), but as far as cost and size considerations, I had a change of heart.


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## ISO

Robb said:


> Sorry to bring this up, but I just bought a BNIB never powered up Kicker s12d 2 ohm solobaric sub. Can't wait to get it !
> 
> Should I use a 1.1 cu/ft sealed box ? Or the recomended 0.88 cu/ft ? Im gonna be throwing 900 watts @ 2ohm mono from a Zapco Z300 C2.


PLEASE listen to me and the othe person about your Solo-D.

Do NOT build a box any bigger than .88 cubic feet.

There was a time that it was so important to the life of the Solo-Baric to be in the rite sized enclosure that they used to come with stickers explaing that you will not be covered under warranty if not used with the propper amount of air space.

I know your sub has no warranty. I'm just telling you this to help you understand how important it is to use Kickers box recommendations.

Power handleing:

During that time period Kicker used thermal power handling for their power recommendations and unfortunetly that led to some of the subwoofers in their line to have inflated power handling (Competion series drivers for the most part) that was actually dangerous to the mechanical ability of the driver. Unfortunetly I have never ran any of the round Solo-Barics but have used alot of Competition A and C series and the 98 XPL C-series and I would not recommend putting full thermal pwer handleing on these lines.

*My recommendation is 450 to 600 watts RMS at the most and I would stay near 450 watts myself in a .88cf sealed enclosure. *

Do your self a favor and use the .88cf box and purchase a Kicker ZX400.1
and call that it.

To the other guy, I'm very happy to find another person that understands that you can not adjust power output of an amp with the gain control.


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## Robb

I will have the gains all the way down on the amp and I do have subwoofer control on my headunit, so I'll keep it on the negatives on that too...


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## PeteW

I just dug up an old ZR360 with factory box and packaging when I was going through my old audio stuff yesterday. It worked will pushing the 2 IDQ10's a good 10-11 years ago.

Now I just have to decide if I keep it to run what will either be a single 12 sealed or dual 8 IB setup since I got hooked on this crap again.

Anyone know what I could sell the ZR360 with EQ module for these days?


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## ECM

Nice sub you picked up Robb. I have two BNIB C12c's and two used C12c's. Still thinking about grabbing another set of 6.5" resolutions like the ones I sold you. 

Go with 0.66cf on that Solo!


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## Fast VW

I have been running 1000watts rms on an s12d sub in .88 cubic feet for about 3-4 years. No problems. I think the sub would sound better with more air space behind it but the power handling would drop fast.


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## Robb

Fast VW said:


> I have been running 1000watts rms on an s12d sub in .88 cubic feet for about 3-4 years. No problems. I think the sub would sound better with more air space behind it but the power handling would drop fast.


You have the gains all the way at the bottom ?
I'm thinking 1.0 cu/ft sealed would be ideal.


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## quality_sound

Robb, 

The gains have nothing to do with it. Second, do NOT run the S12d in 1cf with that much power available.


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## Robb

quality_sound said:


> Robb,
> 
> The gains have nothing to do with it. Second, do NOT run the S12d in 1cf with that much power available.


ok..
but people are telling me to have a slightly bigger box so it will sound deeper/lower...


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## quality_sound

Of course it will. ANY sub will play lower in a larger box but at what cost? You're already overpowering the piss out of it and should be running the .66cf box not the .88cf box anyway. Now you want to go to 1cf? 

I sold Solobarics from their inception through the first run of the L7s and I'm telling you 1cf with that much power is a bad, bad idea. Using the bigger box to play lower is only really an issue if you're limited on power. With what you have available I would not go larger than .88cf and I'd seriously consifer the .66cf. BTW, .88 and .66 are GROSS numbers so you don't have to add any displacement for the drivers, just build to that size and drop them in.


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## Robb

Ok.. I dont crank music loud anyways... I think 0.88 cu/ft box is safe !


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## TrickyRicky

ROBB, your one lucky guy. I was going to mention the round solo's. They are the best subs kicker could ever make (of course for SQ). NOT TO MENTION MADE IN USA, unlike todays kickers made in..... you know where. Trust me you wont be sorry. SEAL is the best way to go with those subs. Did you get one or two???

There's a Kicker factory in Still Water, OK but I dont know what they manufacture there, am thinking amps????


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## Robb

Jeanious2009 said:


> . Did you get one or two???


Bought the one only that he had.


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## jobrizzle7481

I used to use a kicker ZR amp and it with some JL W3's were fantastic sounding. If something if working for you don't buy into the new stuff is better because it's new. I been through a lot of products and just went back to old school Zapco Studio.


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## Guy

vwguy383 said:


> What series did they make for Soundstream? I love old school SS stuff. Didn't a speaker builder named Vifa or something like that build for them too....


Granite and USA series, and I believe the SPLs but I'll have to check to verify that. And yes, the Reference series are Vifa manufactured parts assembled in the US.


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## tonym

I have a used set of r5's and r4's they could use a dusting... you can have if you want to pay for the shipping..


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## Qyota

Agreed that the d series was hawt. However, I had issues with the surround coming loose from the frame under the gasket. The solution was to remove the gasket, and re-glue the surround to the frame. Otherwise, at any mid-high excursion, the surround would separate from the frame and "fart" loudly. Sounds funny, but it seriously sounded like the sub coming apart (I guess it was, technically). 

It's funny that Kicker had this issue with the frame/surround connection, yet focused so much on that "stitched cone/surround" joint marketing point.


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## quality_sound

I _never_ saw that on any of the Solos I sold.


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## aztec1

Currently running a CV 1200EXL pushing 2 C12-8 original goldlogos in 2.3 sealed. They sound great and there are no problems with power handling. I have some 10's too, going to vent them 

I love old Kicker


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## badmotorscooter

I had several older Kicker products. In my 92 mustang I ran 4 C10d, off of two ZR240's and a set of Dynaudio 240 comps with a ZR360. Holy chit did those amps get hott, and I swear they never did run out of steam! Then I had dual C12ds in an 89 cavalier ran bridged to each ZR240. I swear those were the tightest sounding 12s ever. I sold all my ZR amps and C12d in 01 ish. I went to M series xtant and bought a pair of C8d for my reg. cab pickup. I still have the c8d and they still look minty, I am trying to find a reason to reuse them now in my 07 classic silverado crew cab. That was (is) some good stuff!


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