# Starting Over: 2011 Subaru WRX 5-Door Install



## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Sold the M3 and replaced it with a 2011 WRX. I haven't heard a factory audio system that sounds this bad in 20 years. Which is good, because I won't waste time before gutting it! Due to monetary constraints, though, the build will probably go in stages:

Obligatory Car Pic:









Stage 1:


Audison BitOne, integrated with OEM HU. I don't want the constraint of needing a Head Unit with the right crossover and time alignment I want, so I'm just going to dive into what will easily be the most expensive component in the system.
Sound Deadening: The Subaru needs a lot more attention in this department than the M3 did! Not going to waste any time getting to this step.
The rest will be some basic placeholders to get started. Maybe some Seas Neo tweets and a pair of Dayton RS150's I have sitting around, powered by, either a hodgepodge of 2CH amps I have, or a nice, compact 5 channel like the Alpine PDX-5 or Massive Audio NX5
No sub, for now, but eventually: SIH1008 08-2011 Subaru WRX / STI Hatch 10 Inch Perfect Fit
I'm going to start with factory placement, to get the basic install going and then start the real experimentation.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

Subscribing.

Good to see you back on here.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Great to be back. I was getting bored with where I was getting with the M3 so its fun to start with a clean slate.


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

If you listen to the radio at all, you will not want to keep the factory deck. I have an MS8 and the CD players sound good. Radio, there is no hope for. Bing also tested a factory HU and said their is some nasty built in EQing that changes with volume. I have since bought a cheap HU to replace the stock.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

subiemax said:


> If you listen to the radio at all, you will not want to keep the factory deck. I have an MS8 and the CD players sound good. Radio, there is no hope for. Bing also tested a factory HU and said their is some nasty built in EQing that changes with volume. I have since bought a cheap HU to replace the stock.



Looks like a job for a JL clean sweep...LOL


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Good thing I never listen to radio! And I do mean never. Mostly CD's, iPod or Bluetooth streamed MP3's from my phone. A HU is a sure thing, though. Just not the first thing.


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Awesome! You coming out to High Point again next month? I want to see this beast in person!!!


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

chithead said:


> Awesome! You coming out to High Point again next month? I want to see this beast in person!!!


Yep, I'll be there! Nothing to listen to, though, that's for sure LOL


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Decided on an MS8 instead. Wonder if I can squeeze some gear in for April 30th?


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Plenty of time!!! I say go for it


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

I was in a similar boat with a head unit. You can get an older SQ head unit very cheaply, I found and went that way. An Alpine CDA 7995 can be had for $100 and is well worth it, even as a placeholder and can be resold later for what you paid.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

kenikh said:


> I was in a similar boat with a head unit. You can get an older SQ head unit very cheaply, I found and went that way. An Alpine CDA 7995 can be had for $100 and is well worth it, even as a placeholder and can be resold later for what you paid.


I'm actually curious to hear what sort of sound quality the MS-8 can extract from the factory HU. My primary qualifiers for the head unit I'll chose are features. I want ergonomic, aesthetics and convenience. That's why I decided on an external processor. Didn't want to be constrained to a small number of overpriced essque HU's that still leave one wanting. 
In short, I wish there were an Android HU already!


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

just posting as a lazy way to sub.... sorry I missed this earlier Sam.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

saMxp said:


> I'm actually curious to hear what sort of sound quality the MS-8 can extract from the factory HU. My primary qualifiers for the head unit I'll chose are features. I want ergonomic, aesthetics and convenience. That's why I decided on an external processor. Didn't want to be constrained to a small number of overpriced essque HU's that still leave one wanting.
> In short, I wish there were an Android HU already!


My factory HU is soooo bad, that buying an interim was the right solution for me. My ultimate goal is go with a Car PC or Zune HD solution, managed through a touch screen, outputting sound through an outboard HiFi DAC into the AUX IN on my MS-8.

Since I don't want to boil the ocean while doing the build out, the Alpine was a good bridge until then.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Like Ryan, I'm going to post to get you on my subscriptions. It is a beautiful car - I saw it a couple days before Sam put the professional Guru detail on it. I am anxious to hear your impressions of the MS8.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

Android head unit = Samsung Galaxy Tab. 
Everyone is doing iPads...If I change my HU, it'll be for a Mac Mini w/ Carnetix Power supply/Power button relocation and 7-8" touch screen....runing optical into my Bit One.1

Jay

(Oh, and I am also taking the lazy way to sub... )


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

You should check out Galaxy Tab installs on MP3car.com...works well. My route will be Windows 7, using Media Center with a Lilliput 7" touch screen that fits a double din opening. That is a great touch experience and I can tether it to my 3G for Last.FM, Pandora, etc. I'll pipe the Toslink into a KingRex DAC, then into the MS-8.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

I need to check out those Galaxy Tab installs because that'd be the ultimate but I have no idea how to get a quality audio signal out of it and into the MS8. Aux in would have more distortion than an iPad through the iPod adapter.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I was watching videos of Soundmancaraudio's iPad install in their Tacoma. He did iPad to apple iPad camera/usb adapter to an Onkyo NDS-1 (IIRC) which gives optical out which he fed into his BitOne.

Kind of a round about way of doing it, but effective.

Jay


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Progress today! Might even have something to listen at the meet on Saturday.

Got the 4ga run from the batt:









Ran into the fenderwell:









Had to pop off some panels to get access to this boot:


















Inside view of the grommet in the driver's side kick panel for the 4ga to pass through:









Then got the PVC cups built up for the Tang Bands:




































Really wish I had time to pull the carpet and lay down some MLV and CCF but I pulled the interior apart just to run all the wires to the NX5 and MS8. Sound deadener can come later.


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

Just an FYI, my drivers side door handle is rattling. Like on the outside. Maybe if you add extra dampening around it, might help. Too late for me, door is already sealed up.


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## Joe0428 (Oct 8, 2010)

I love the PVC end-caps. Good luck to you man.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks for the heads up! Going to tackle the door this afternoon. 
It blows my mind that Subaru's solution to squeaking panels is a thin, fragile coat of felting on the snaps. This is going to be an ongoing project! 

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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Joe0428 said:


> I love the PVC end-caps. Good luck to you man.


Haha, can't claim credit for that idea! Going to use them to experiment with aiming before finding a more permanent solution. 

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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Can't wait to see it / hear it this weekend - Great Job!


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## brocken (Apr 26, 2010)

saMxp said:


> Thanks for the heads up! Going to tackle the door this afternoon.
> It blows my mind that Subaru's solution to squeaking panels is a thin, fragile coat of felting on the snaps. This is going to be an ongoing project!
> 
> This message brought by hTC EVO using Tapatalk


Quoted for truth of statement!

I need to set aside a Saturday afternoon to hunting down rattles and foaming them. I notice a bunch on my drive to work on rough freeway surfaces. 

Where are you mounting the speaker pods? A-pillars?

p.s. nice car! Makes me wish I had the blue instead of OBP... especially when I see all the scratches.


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

I chased ghosts for a whole weekend to find out the rattles I had were actually in the door latch mechanism inside the door. No way to fix it as it's encased in plastic. 

And OBP is my favorite (when it's clean) as those cobalt blue flecks really dance in the sunlight. LOVE it.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

brocken said:


> Quoted for truth of statement!
> 
> I need to set aside a Saturday afternoon to hunting down rattles and foaming them. I notice a bunch on my drive to work on rough freeway surfaces.
> 
> ...


Thanks! This was the only color I even considered. Drove 700 miles to pick it up LOL 
I bolted the PVC poss to the a pillars for now. I'll take pics tomorrow at the NC meet. Doesn't look awful but it certainly not a permanent solution. I'm tossing around a few ideas, though. 

Just wrapped up the install and did a few minutes listening and impressed so far with the MS8 and the cheap Tang Bands! 
Got a ton of buzzes and rattles to chase now. 

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## Joe0428 (Oct 8, 2010)

Do you have any input on the Dayton RS150's thinking of buying a pair?


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Joe0428 said:


> Do you have any input on the Dayton RS150's thinking of buying a pair?


Tough to provide feedback just yet as I've only listened to them for about an hour and since I'm using them un an augmented wideband setup, they're only playing 70-700hz. Haven't heard anything I don't like so far. I've got a set of RS180's that are going in as soon as I have time to fab up the mounting rings and seal up the door. The RS150's just bolted to the factory location, which is far from ideal for getting the most out of them. 
I originally bought them thinking I would go with a traditional two way and didn't want a larger cone that might be prone to breakup or beaming in the upper midrange, but since deciding on the augmented wideband, the RS180's made more sense, especially since I got them cheap! 

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## Joe0428 (Oct 8, 2010)

Thanks


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## DLO13 (Oct 24, 2010)

besides the GTR, my favorite car around - Looking forward to updates, keep up the good work!


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Had a lot of great feedback last weekend at the Central NC Spring Meet and confirmed my direction with the augmented wideband configuration. The low cost Tang Band W3-1364SA drivers in the PVC cups were to be a temporary configuration because I had them sitting around but I might work with them a little longer because I really like how they sound. 
For one, I'm not going to be putting tweeters in anytime soon. My hearing drops off rapidly after 15kHz so maybe others might hear them missing, but I think the MS-8 did a great job at correcting the top end response as they sound clear and detailed in vocals, percussion, you name it.
They are angled about 30 degrees in from pointing directly at each other. With them direction at each other, the soundstage was really great but tonality suffered with the W3's that far off axis. With them more on axis, they do sound great, but the MS-8 couldn't manage as good of a wide and solid sound stage so the 30 deg offered a good compromise.
As for finishing the W3's. I like how they sound in the small PVC cup "enclosure" so I may try cutting away the a-pillar and fiberglassing them in. Loving the way John (MiniBox) M5's pillars are finished in stitched alcantara, so I may give the same guy a call to finish my pillars with red contrast stitching to stick with the Subaru interior theme throughout the car.
The Dayton RS150's were a little weak on midbass, and the RS180's are ready to go in their place, but the anemic response likely had more to do with being bolted to the stock plastic bracket than the driver itself. When the RS180's go in, I'll make a proper MDF baffle and finish sealing up the door panel with RaamMat. Right now, I've only got a half dozen SDS CLD Tiles on the outer door skin and the outside of the inner door skin. 
The Diamond Audio D1 is doing just what I need. Fill in the first octave with clean, enveloping bass. I actually have it playing the first two octaves right now but I'll drop the crossover point from 80Hz to something closer to 50Hz after the RS180's go in. The D1 is just in a 1/2 cu ft sealed box I had sitting around, but the Audio Integration Perfect Fit enclosure will be going in soon. Went camping last weekend and didn't like having to move the ugly box around to accommodate the gear!
I haven't said anything about the Massive Audio NX5 because it's doing its job without complaint. Plenty of power, love the small size that fits under the seat, and hasn't gotten much more than warm. 
Loving how easy the MS-8 takes an Auto Calibration to something that sounds great. Have a few peaks and valleys in the RTA that I think I can solve by moving the crossover points/slopes around. The trick with moving your head slightly to the left to help move the soundstage closer to center worked well. Also, kind of a pain having to decrease the gain on the sub after each cal. I'm wondering if the low end response in the earphone mics isn't up to par and the MS8 is overcompensating?

Next steps:
- Dayton RS180's in the doors, finish sealing up the doors
- Lay MLV / CCF in floor pan, hatch area
- Fiberglass PVC cups into a-pillars


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## brocken (Apr 26, 2010)

Cool beans. It's nice when you don't have any expectations for something and it turns out really nice. 
I really like my Audio Integrations enclosure. Fit's like a glove in the trunk and sounds great. They have awesome customer service too.

I went through a similar positioning experience on my latest a-pillar build. I ended up aiming the mids directly at each other though. The improved stage was so much more noticeable to me than any of the losses I got from being so far off axis. I was really surprised that position sounded the best. The tweeters are aimed a little more towards the front seats though. There were some weird reflections when they were aimed at each other and they sounded really muted.
Our cars aren't the easiest platform for sq but there's definitely some potential if you're willing to mod the pillars.
I'd love to have the Alcantara like you mentioned, I think I know the shop you're referring to. Maybe someday... it was going to be expensive to wrap my pillars because of the complex shape.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

I'm excited about getting the hatch space back with the AI enclosure. Hate that I'll lose my rear cargo net mounts, but might fab up a hook on the box to keep it.

Looking at your build, it looks as if your AR drivers aren't quite directly at each other. Maybe a 20 degree angle back? Or did you change that? Regardless, the AR drivers are in an entirely different league than these Tang Bands and still sound fantastic off-axis. Especially when augmented with a tweeter. 

I actually might try cutting and sewing my own covers with cheap vinyl to practice. I've got a huge roll of it in black. Need to learn how to fiberglass, first!


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## brocken (Apr 26, 2010)

The AR's are out and I've been working on a new set of pillars for a Rainbow Vanadium 3way set. The mids are 4" Vanadiums which are a challenge to fit. The AR3K's were easy in comparison.

Good idea on the practicing with vinyl. If you get good at it you can order the Alcantara and wrap it yourself. The crappiest parts to get looking right are big drops or concave curves. If you make the pod relatively flat to the pillar and make a shallow rise it's much easier to wrap.
Don't do what I did and try painting... I spent several hours this weekend sanding and filling and then sanding and filling...etc. Even after tons of work all the little imperfections show with paint.

As a fellow noob to glassing I can say it's easier than it seems if you do your research. Get all the prep work done and have a good space to glass and it's actually fun. Especially since I used USC epoxy resin the second time around and it doesn't have the nasty smell.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Oh wow, you need to update your build thread and give us impressions on the switch! 

I'm definitely not messing with paint. A lot of work for unsatisfactory results. I'm pretty good with vinyl and with a seam, i should be able to get it to conform nicely. 
Thanks for the tip on the USC resin. What's a good place to order it? I can't wait to try it! 

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## brocken (Apr 26, 2010)

Epoxy : Epoxy Resins and Hardeners
I used the 635 Thin system with 3:1 ratio. You might want a different ratio depending on the temperature there.
I had tons of work time with the resin and layers took about a day to cure if kept indoors and warm.

I'll hopefully be updating soon. I still don't have the new pods in. Just finished painting (and getting disappointed at the paint) last night. If I have time I'll get them mounted tonight. At least then I can listen to tunes while I decide how to wrap the pillars.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Nice man! Good to hear the progress. Get some pics up ASAP! Especially interested to see how your pillars are. I think I might re-do mine at some point. Take your time to make them perfectly symmetric with respect to each other. Mine are slightly off and it bugs me (not the aiming, but how the contours ended up). And with our pillars, be really careful around the bottom where it matches up to the dash. If possible keep all your glasswork above that area. I had to do a lot of grinding and sanding to get them to fit in, and I don't really have a nice transition into the dash.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Good point at the bottom, where the tabs insert into the dash. I'll have to be very careful there. They aren't much to look at now, with just the PVC cups bolted to the pillars, but I'll try to snap pics soon. Can't wait to hack away at the pillar and get them looking integrated!


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

So far, I LOVE my RS180's. I read a bunch of reviews and they seemed well suited to an IB door install, (moreso than the SLS6 anyway), they were said to have a limited range, but since I was running them with 3" TB Bamboo's I wasn't concerned about that. Right now they are in my doors on temporary MDF baffles, and are playing down to something like 50Hz. As a matter of fact, my sub seems to have stopped working, and it took me DAYS to notice.  These replaced my Pioneer TS-C720PRS set, and I've been VERY impressed.

One thing I might suggest, is using something other than MDF for your baffles. I use King Starboard, and have seen many people suggest Corian. Both materials are waterproof. Alot of people do MDF and then resin them, but as soon as you drive screws into them, they aren't sealed anymore. 
They eventually seem to all rot. At least just about every one I've seen.

Great work. Can't wait to see more.

Jay


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

cant wait to see pics man. love these cars, the STi's are even meaner.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

I don't know if it was you or somebody else saying something about the doors rattling around the handle area. I had mine doing that too after sealing them well. One thing that does it is this little metal bracket that the screw inside the handle threads into. It rattles against the door panel. I stuck a piece of raamat and ensolite behind it. But, I also noticed that on real high volume midbass tracks, the actual window switches can rattle. No way to fix that unfortunately. Well, unless you pull the switches apart, but I'm not doing that.

I like my NX5 a lot too! It's not permanently mounted yet, but I did notice on a 4.5hr trip this past weekend the class AB side can get kind of hot. But not really an issue, not hot enough to burn your or shut off. And mine is totally under the driver seat without ventilation. No sub hooked up yet.

I'm debating on my pillars. I'm gonna leave what I have now (just primed and sanded) until the very end. Then, I'm gonna decide if I can salvage them or want to re-do from scratch. Do you have your midbasses running off two channels of the NX5 or the four channels bridged? That's another thing I'm debating, might want more power for the midbass


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

I'm going to have to take a look at the metal bracket in the door handle to see if I can find the culprit as well and nip it in the bud. Overall, other than all the sound deadening, I am also going to try to stick with a higher crossover point to keep too much bass out of the doors. I usually like something around 50Hz but I might stick with 70Hz.

I haven't done any extended loud listening yet, but every time I've touched the NX5, it is barely warm. I'm running the Daytons and TB W3's off the Class AB 4ch in the NX5 and the Diamond D1 off the Class D in it. I have a NX4 as well that I'm going to hang on to for a while in case I want more power for the midbasses but I think the 120w might be enough for me. That NX4 is small enough I think it could sit right next to the NX5!
I also don't have them bolted down just yet. With as much tweaking on the gains as I'm doing, I just stuck some Velcro Hook to the bottom of the amp and let that grip the carpet. More than enough, and allows me to swing it out and tweak the gains.


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

That was me talking about the door handle rattling. On heavy midbass it drives me crazy. I opened the door and wiggled the outside handle and it stops. Shut the door and it starts again. Lol. Might try to stick some deadener in between the handle and door. See if I can do that without it being noticable. I also do not have my subs up and running yet and am crossed at 50. Will go up some also and that should help. 
What's the deal with scoobs Massive nanos? I have an nx2, just ordered a nx4 and a n4.


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

Also, tighten up all the screws on the doorcard if you have not already. Mine were surprisingly loose.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Haha, yea it seems we all have Massive Nano amps. I think I stripped out the screw hole that's inside of the actual door pocket. I have my crossover down at 63 Hz right now since I don't have a sub, but yea I might try to up it some once I get my IDQ installed. I ran out of raamat, or I would have put more on the actual door card. But I'm actually pretty satisfied with the midbass I have. I also had to fix one of those white plastic boxes inside the door rattling, and then the spot where you would have an OEM tweeter, that was rattling against something. I was able to stick Ensolite on each spot and it's pretty much good to go now.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

The NX5 just makes perfect sense for an underseat install with a clean amp and good power. That Sonicelectronix sale helped, too!
Also been thinking about adding rears to take advantage of the Logic7 and deliberating between a set of 6 1/2 coaxials in the back doors or another pair of TB W3's in pods hanging from the roof behind the back seats.


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## brocken (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks for the idea, I think I need a Massive amp too... haha
I have a good 4 channel right now but need another 2 channels to run my 3 ways active.
Sounds like I need an NX2.


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

brocken said:


> Thanks for the idea, I think I need a Massive amp too... haha
> I have a good 4 channel right now but need another 2 channels to run my 3 ways active.
> Sounds like I need an NX2.


I have one for sale. Month old $120.


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

Never mind o selling the nx2. Finally found a prs800 and am going to use it. Nx4 bridged to mids and nx2 on high, n4 on bass. That's a lot of power under my ass . Lol.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Some of that going under the passenger seat too? I don't think it will all fit under the driver seat. Unless you want it getting near the rear passenger feet. You could fit the Nx2 and Nx4 under there and then the n4 under the other seat I'd say.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

MS8 is under the passenger seat. I generally drive with the seat pretty far back and I seldom have passengers behind the driver so I might put the NX4 next to the NX5. I need to see how that would fit. Did some heavy listening this weekend and the NX5 got warm, but not too bad. Especially with AC blowing from those vents. Starting to think the midbasses need more power, but I'll wait to decide after I switch to the RS180's and seal up the doors. I'm expecting major gains in output with the change.


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

Im putting the n4 under drivers seat and nx2/4 under the passenger seat. Did it that way mainly to deal with power wire and RCA routing. Power wire goes to dblock under drivers seat and then to another under passenger seat. Power wire and sub rca come close, but the highs don't get messed with. Working on it right now. Ill post a few pics later.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Cool. Yea, I'm wondering about bridging my Nx5 and getting an Nx2 as well now. But I just need to listen to my setup more before changing anything. I'll try just hooking up the midbasses bridged first to see what the difference is like. Yet again I have no sound in my system since I sent my CDA-117 back to exchange for a w900BT. Should be a sweet change though.


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

Im right there with you. Rewired everything but the power wire yesterday. 800prs is not coming in till thursday, so I have no way of running the separates without it. Missed the ups man yesterday, so no n4 either. ;(


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

Pic of under the passenger seat. Need a good set or 4chan RCAs for the highs and some 8g speaker wire for the subs and I'll be done. For a while. Maybe.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Oh man, I hate waiting that extra day when I miss the ups man! 
I need some good 4ch RCA's to go from the MS8 to the NX5, too. All I had was a super long pair from Knukonceptz. Need to order a four footer. 

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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

Those are 15 ft I think. Lol.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

saMxp:

Make your own RCAs. I did it for the first time on this project and it was way easy and cheap, plus I could customize the length (mine are only 1.5 ft). I covered them in Techflex and they look awesome too. Get some Neutrik (sp?) connectors and some of the low noise mic cable from parts express (or that fancy star quad stuff).

subiemax:

Your underseat setup looks good! You gonna make any kind of wire cover or anything for it? And if they aren't bolted down, check out my build for a pic of these studs under the carpet that you can easily stick a board to, totally under the carpet, and then screw the amps down. Not like they're going anywhere under there, but I like everything to be bolted down.

Oh, and do you know the torque spec for the seat bolts off hand? I didn't do mine to spec and want to when I pull the seats again.


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

I don't see any reason to cover the wires. Everything is zip tied and pretty secure and nobody will ever see it anyway. The nx2 it screwed to the floor. There is a double floor there, some kind of brace. Just took a couple selftapping screws and secured the side that is facing the rear of the car. The nx4 has some velcro on it. Might go back andput some wood down, but I don't think they are going anywhere now. 
As far as torque spec for the seats-no idea.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

I thought about making my own. I've got this 20 foot KnuKonceptz Karma 4 channel twisted pair that I could cut up into a bunch of smaller cables. I like how the four channels are neatly captured in one jacket for easy routing. What's a good place to get the Neutrik plugs?


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

The RCAs are actually REAN now......

Markertek - Search Results for rean rca plugs


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

slade1274 said:


> The RCAs are actually REAN now......
> 
> Markertek - Search Results for rean rca plugs


Perfect! They even have four colors to help with Channel ID. Can't wait for them to come in. Perfect rainy day project.


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## DenaliXTC (May 8, 2011)

thanks for sharing!


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Just a few not so great pics of the Tang Band W3's in PVC cups before I start hacking the a-pillars on Saturday...


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

^^^^sounds like a fun project!
I plan on getting around to running a new ground from the battery pretty soon. Has anyone run new wire from the alternator to the battery? Think it is needed? Im running a nx4 bridged, nx2 and a n4 @ 2 ohms. So about 1700 watts.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

I definitely had planned to do the big 3 but I'm in no hurry because there is no noise, alternator whine, or lights dimming so far.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

I plan on trying the big three at some point too. Depends on dimming though. I just got the sub hooked up last night, but have no head unit. Friday I'll know. I did do an additional ground from the battery - to chassis. Knukonceptz had provisions for it in the 1/0 kit, so I figured why not (I have 4AWG though).

Those Tang Bands are sweet! Just hack those pillars man! I think they're only like $17 each or so. But like I said stay clear of the bottom portion. Make sure to keep that part flexible because it needs to kind of twist when you install them. Mine are a PITA to reinstall. I would put them up a bit higher and then use hot glue to hold grill cloth straight to the pillar. You'll have to add tons of body filler at the intersection between the pillar and what you're building up anyway. And don't settle for wrinkles like I did ("eh good enough, I'll just fill these in with resin and body filler"). If they show up, just rip it back off and start over. Assuming you have grill cloth, right?


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks for the pointers! Can't wait to start. 

I'm sure I have a yard or two of grill cloth left over from another project but I want to try some vinyl I have left over. Figure I can always redo them at some point.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Vinyl would be great if you can get it stretched. I meant grill cloth to form the shape before resin.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

I don't think I'm going to do the conventional cloth stretched over a ring shape. Going to experiment with a unique look that I think will integrate with Subaru nicely. Or not. LOL but like you said, they're only $17


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

saMxp said:


> I don't think I'm going to do the conventional cloth stretched over a ring shape. Going to experiment with a unique look that I think will integrate with Subaru nicely. Or not. LOL but like you said, they're only $17


Something a bit more organic, like this?


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Actually less organic, more like a Boolean operation with the simple intersection of a cylinder into the a-pillar. There are several design cues throughout the cabin that are similar, like the instrument cluster intersecting with the dash and also the HVAC controls.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

I figured you could go either way...your car certainly has more strong architectural lines to cue from.  The '99 Forester which the above pods are going in has no such luck, being more of a non-descript, play-doh esthetic. 

If I could just figure a way to shoehorn the interior from my wife's new A4 into the Forester...


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

I had another thought for doing pods for our cars. If I redo mine I might try it. Starting by just cutting the entire bottom of the pillar cover off (pick a nice height, just below where the panel clip goes into the sheetmetal). Then reinstall the remaining upper portion. Tape the entire area off and glass up a mold in the void, going all the way back to the a-pillar sheetmetal and into the corner of the windshield, out onto the dash (to be trimmed up later). Build up the mold and let it fully dry and then aim your MDF baffles. Once aimed, pull out of the car and trim, then stretch cloth and finish. You could do them in black vinyl probably since there wouldn't be any drastic curves as the pod would be separate from the pillar. And have the pod overlap onto the existing pillar portion just enough to cover where you cut. Try to soften the transition between pod and pillar, but don't try to make it look like one piece or anything.

Just a thought. Plus you could get that method to seal up and could push the drivers out wider. I may try it if I cannot get my pillars to look exactly like I want them to.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

ecbmxer said:


> I had another thought for doing pods for our cars. If I redo mine I might try it. Starting by just cutting the entire bottom of the pillar cover off (pick a nice height, just below where the panel clip goes into the sheetmetal). Then reinstall the remaining upper portion. Tape the entire area off and glass up a mold in the void, going all the way back to the a-pillar sheetmetal and into the corner of the windshield, out onto the dash (to be trimmed up later). Build up the mold and let it fully dry and then aim your MDF baffles. Once aimed, pull out of the car and trim, then stretch cloth and finish. You could do them in black vinyl probably since there wouldn't be any drastic curves as the pod would be separate from the pillar. And have the pod overlap onto the existing pillar portion just enough to cover where you cut. Try to soften the transition between pod and pillar, but don't try to make it look like one piece or anything.
> 
> Just a thought. Plus you could get that method to seal up and could push the drivers out wider. I may try it if I cannot get my pillars to look exactly like I want them to.


I did almost the same thing, except I left the pillars in place. Removing them would have had no benefit as the sails add just enough room to pipe a vent into the dash to allow the speakers infinite baffle. There are also some fasteners low that are nice for anchoring the pods in place (once adhered to the sails). 

I taped the corner up, glassed it in, used an acrylic sphere to set the speaker angle and act as a diffuser, then added an MDF ring to mount the speaker. Check it out (starting post #8):

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-member-build-logs/97816-1999-subaru-forester-build.html


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

Probably easier to leave some of the "framework" and use florist foam. you can glass right over it and it won't melt. You can sand it down quite easily to sculpt it to the shape you want and is just as easy to dig out when the glass is complete.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Yeah I might could get away with an organic shape, but I am very partial to the creases and hard edges prevalent in modern automotive design. Lends a bit of a masculine, high tech look. I finally got a good look at the pics you posted and I like it! I commend your efforts towards aesthetics, going beyond function and actually visiting form.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

saMxp said:


> I commend your efforts towards aesthetics, going beyond function and actually visiting form.


Thanks! I am a big fan of integrating strong graphical cues into product styling, using basic geometric shapes and pronounced breaking lines, then setting them off with an unexpected organic element. Form should follow function, but that doesn't mean it has to be boring (or hidden). Sounds like we're on the same page. 

My car's interior doesn't have much to work with visually, so really tried to make the pods disappear into the dash space.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Good plan, on not going for a strong visual statement on an otherwise understated interior! Don't need to call so much attention that it looks like an afterthought. 
Oh, and ditto on recent Audi interiors! Pure class.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Dremeled out the pillar to recess the cup


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

You know the rules- pics or don't bother with the comment.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Tapatalk didn't upload the pic?! 

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...bocJFgVXoQ/s1024/C360_2011-05-21+17-21-31.jpg


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Still working on the relocation so pics can wait but one thing I immediately noticed is a major reduction in high frequency response. The drivers are in the same volume but rather than tucked into the corner of the windshield and a-pillar, they are slightly recessed into a-pillar an inch or two up and away from glass.
Even after re-running the MS8 calibration, the high end response isn't quite what it was. I'm thinking that I'm getting far fewer reflections, and might need to add a tweeter after all. One of the Tang Bands ended up drooping slightly by the time the epoxy cured so I am going to break the bond and redo it to get them both aimed at the same spot again before doing anything else.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

I considered running my L3SEs without tweeters, but given I like "bright" highs, ended up in the same boat as you. Thus, tweeters in the sails and the center channel. 

You just can't EQ the top end adequately to compensate w/o tweeters, if your ears are still sensitive enough to hear the entire frequency band (and approaching 40, I am one of the lucky few who still can).


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

Just try using the stock sail tweeter off the MS8 internal amp.... that is if it came with tweeters.


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## brocken (Apr 26, 2010)

slade1274 said:


> Just try using the stock sail tweeter off the MS8 internal amp.... that is if it came with tweeters.


:cwm8: I usually would agree with slade but the stock tweeters are garbage! Talk about distortion.

There are plenty of quality, budget diy tweeters out there. Especially if you only need them to play 4500/5000 and up.

I tried the tweeterless and was pretty happy but I agree there was something missing. Now, with mid and tweets in the a-pillars it sounds awesome. That high end detail is right there without being harsh or sharp.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

slade1274 said:


> Just try using the stock sail tweeter off the MS8 internal amp.... that is if it came with tweeters.


I'm gonna try that for sure. 

And brocken, they'll likely be playing from 10k or 12k up so it won't take much to fill out where the Tang Bands roll off.
I am sure I can find a tiny tweeter to fit in the factory sail panels, but I'm in no hurry. I fixed the dropping pod so they're aimed properly and it made a significant difference.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Try re-aiming the TBs and see if you can fix it. Might be as simple as that. I've thought about playing with a cheap-o set of tweeters in parallel with a cap on them (there are some $5 Daytons on PE that would probably do 10kHz+), but I'm pretty happy with my wideband setup.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Yeah it was a dramatic improvement to get them more on axis so now I'm debating on whether to keep them more flush and off axis and supplemented with a tweeter or more on axis and protrude out further


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

So it's sounding better than ever and I need to just rave about the MS8 a little while.

For one, it is forcing me to focus on the basics and the most important contributor to great sound - the install. Previously, I would waste hours tweaking time alignment and eq in an effort to compensate. Now I hardly even touch the 31 band eq. 

Here's an example. I started listening to my favorite tracks and tweaking the eq and I suddenly realized that I had made boosts nearly entirely across the range of the midbass (from 80Hz to 400Hz). I leveled them back to zero and raised the gain on the midbass and there it was. Just what I was looking for. 

Also, I initially hard a pretty large spike at 500Hz. I tried eqing it out with moderate success before I realized the midbass/wideband crossover was set to 450 (or maybe even 500, I don't remember). I dropped the crossover point, and the spike dropped to a small hump. 

With the loss of high frequencies in the last few posts - I was immediately tempted to either EQ or add tweeters to compensate. But I told myself to just go back to basics. Looking at the orientation of the drivers made me realize the left side was aimed downwards compared to the right. Fixed the orientation, re-ran calibration and it sounds great.

There are several other instances, as well, so I could go on for a while.

I'm starting to see one of the MS-8's greatest strengths. This is a DSP for installers, not tuners. I don't consider myself either, I just love great sound and enjoy making a lot out of little, but it is really honing my ear for problems in the install. I can see myself using the MS-8 while I finalize the aiming of the widebands, and improve the midbass install in the doors, finish up the sub enclosure, etc. and once the install is where I like it - give something else a try to go in search for that last 10%. I may even swap drivers a bit, but I am thrilled to clearly see how important the DIY portion of MA is towards great sound. Only after I've extracted all I can out of what I have, could I see fit to trying anything else.

Cliffs: This is fun once again!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Killer


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

From my limited experience with friends who happen to be MS8 owners, there seems to be a 50% satisfaction rate. It seems that some work with the strengths and around the drawbacks of the dsp (like yourself), and some who just re-calibrate 100 times and rip it out. I want a demo!


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> From my limited experience with friends who happen to be MS8 owners, there seems to be a 50% satisfaction rate. It seems that some work with the strengths and around the drawbacks of the dsp (like yourself), and some who just re-calibrate 100 times and rip it out. I want a demo!


You in town tomorrow? Heading down to Cars and Coffee in Charlotte in the morning but mostly free otherwise. I need to hear yours again after you fixed that phasing issue!


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Give me a call tomorrow and we will meet up. I probably will only have the widebanders playing. Pulling the 2.4 tomorrow to ship (hopefully).


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

bertholomey said:


> Give me a call tomorrow and we will meet up. I probably will only have the widebanders playing. Pulling the 2.4 tomorrow to ship (hopefully).


Ok, I'll call you after we get back from Charlotte (after lunch)


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Was hoping to edit the first post, but I guess you can't. Just tallied up total budget so far, and happy to see I didn't get out of control!



Dayton RS180 Midbass $50.00
Tang Band W3-1364SA 3" Bamboo Cone Driver $75.00
Massive Audio NX5 amplifier $326.00
JBL MS-8 $500.00
MLV, CCF $100.00
Knukonceptz wires $92.46
Diamond D110D4.2 10" $63.95
Audio Integrations 10 Inch Perfect Fit™ Enclosure $362.99
Total: $1,570.40


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

Not too bad. I think my total is just about the same.


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## coyote-1 (Nov 2, 2010)

Virtually everything in the Impreza doors produces some rattle lol I've been injecting silicone caulk into every seam, and when I'm sure I've gotten everything else I'll use the silicone to lock the clips in too.



ecbmxer said:


> I don't know if it was you or somebody else saying something about the doors rattling around the handle area. I had mine doing that too after sealing them well. One thing that does it is this little metal bracket that the screw inside the handle threads into. It rattles against the door panel. I stuck a piece of raamat and ensolite behind it. But, I also noticed that on real high volume midbass tracks, the actual window switches can rattle. No way to fix that unfortunately. Well, unless you pull the switches apart, but I'm not doing that.
> 
> I like my NX5 a lot too! It's not permanently mounted yet, but I did notice on a 4.5hr trip this past weekend the class AB side can get kind of hot. But not really an issue, not hot enough to burn your or shut off. And mine is totally under the driver seat without ventilation. No sub hooked up yet.
> 
> I'm debating on my pillars. I'm gonna leave what I have now (just primed and sanded) until the very end. Then, I'm gonna decide if I can salvage them or want to re-do from scratch. Do you have your midbasses running off two channels of the NX5 or the four channels bridged? That's another thing I'm debating, might want more power for the midbass


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

coyote-1 said:


> Virtually everything in the Impreza doors produces some rattle lol I've been injecting silicone caulk into every seam, and when I'm sure I've gotten everything else I'll use the silicone to lock the clips in too.


I thought about doing that. Or maybe even JB-Weld.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

coyote-1 said:


> Virtually everything in the Impreza doors produces some rattle lol I've been injecting silicone caulk into every seam, and when I'm sure I've gotten everything else I'll use the silicone to lock the clips in too.


I cannot believe how bad Subaru doors are. I have Raam maated every surface, gone to extremes on the door panels, filled areas with expandable foam and they still don't manage low frequency resonance as well as my wife's Audi does, bone stock. 

I don't think the caulk will do it - I really think that it is related to the sheet metal wanting to act like a passive radiator from the larger drives. I think the only way to really get it done is brace the inner and outer sheet metal to act as one unit...good luck with the windows rolling down.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

I saw (in one of the Vette builds on here) where they braced the doors with some aluminum channel to make the outer doors more rigid. Maybe that could work on these too.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1331754-post6.html


Jay


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## coyote-1 (Nov 2, 2010)

You should only need 30% or so coverage of the metal to essentially eliminate it as a passive radiator. I'm finding those buzzes and rattles are plastic-on-plastic problems. I'm almost tempted to disassemble the plastic cupholder section from the rest of the door, and then use the silicone all around to prevent the vibrations from making those components buzz. And those white 'box' spacers too. 



kenikh said:


> I cannot believe how bad Subaru doors are. I have Raam maated every surface, gone to extremes on the door panels, filled areas with expandable foam and they still don't manage low frequency resonance as well as my wife's Audi does, bone stock.
> 
> I don't think the caulk will do it - I really think that it is related to the sheet metal wanting to act like a passive radiator from the larger drives. I think the only way to really get it done is brace the inner and outer sheet metal to act as one unit...good luck with the windows rolling down.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

I just ordered another half pack of Raamat to get those last few plastic on plastic problems in my 2010 WRX doors. Debating on pulling the mat I have back off to make cleaner panels to seal the door. Probably not worth it just to make cleaner fitting panels if the ones I made work. Just OCD I guess..


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

It might be the fact that I've just got the Dayton RS150's in there, but the doors aren't too bad so far. They aren't sealed up at all, though, so maybe that's the trick!


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Seal em' up and you'll start to hear the rattles!  I do plan to add a foam ring around the speaker to hopefully direct most of the sound out of the door panel. I'm thinking that would help.


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

A million dollar tip: use gloved when laying down raam mat. Or deal with hamburger hands.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

ecbmxer said:


> Seal em' up and you'll start to hear the rattles!  I do plan to add a foam ring around the speaker to hopefully direct most of the sound out of the door panel. I'm thinking that would help.


Interesting idea. I may try that. Doesn't sound easy to do! Unless you leave the ring in the plastic on the factory door and glue some CCF around the outer edge and trim it until it sits against the baffle?



kenikh said:


> A million dollar tip: use gloved when laying down raam mat. Or deal with hamburger hands.


What kind of gloves do you use? I've tried latex, but as unthinkable as it might be - raammat sticks even harder to latex than skin and makes it a PITA to apply!


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## kenikh (Jan 17, 2011)

Home Depot work gloves - ballistic nylon backs, suede fronts:

Firm Grip Firm Grip General Purpose Gloves - Extra Large - 2001XL at The Home Depot


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

I use those mechanix gloves from advance auto. Definitely wear them or cut your hands up like crazy.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Finally ditched the trapezoid subwoofer special and put the Audio Integrations box in (thanks for the recommendation, Ryan). Bumped internal volume up from just under a half cu ft to 0.65 and think this sub is a little happier there. Also wired the two 4 ohm voice coils in parallel rather than series (NX5 is [email protected], versus [email protected] so [email protected]?) and seem to have a ton more headroom!

Obligatory pics (yes, I was too lazy to vacuum):


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## coyote-1 (Nov 2, 2010)

Looks good! I was tempted to go that route, but I'm a beach bum - the cargo space back there is too valuable for beach gear to lose to a subwoofer. Mine will be going in the footwell of the driver's side rear seat.



saMxp said:


> Finally ditched the trapezoid subwoofer special and put the Audio Integrations box in (thanks for the recommendation, Ryan). Bumped internal volume up from just under a half cu ft to 0.65 and think this sub is a little happier there. Also wired the two 4 ohm voice coils in parallel rather than series (NX5 is [email protected], versus [email protected] so [email protected]?) and seem to have a ton more headroom!


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Interesting! So you'd be losing the rear driver's side seating position? Or would it go under the seat?
What's pleasantly surprising about this one is how little it protrudes past the opening in the rear hatch. I still have plenty of room to stuff hiking/camping gear!


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## coyote-1 (Nov 2, 2010)

No room under the seat, that's where the gas tank resides. I'll be losing the rear driver's side seating position. Which is fine, because in over a year of ownership there's never been more than three people in the car.



saMxp said:


> Interesting! So you'd be losing the rear driver's side seating position? Or would it go under the seat?
> 
> What's pleasantly surprising about this one is how little it protrudes past the opening in the rear hatch. I still have plenty of room to stuff hiking/camping gear!


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Yeah I do carry four people often, that's part of why I bought a four door car to replace the M3.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Just my luck - I just found out that I could have saved $50 and got this enclosure for $280 with a promotion code on NASIOC!!!

Perfect Fit Subwoofer Enclosures Subaru Lineup! - NASIOC


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Or you could have saved another $180 and built one  Not as hard as you think. Just time consuming. I actually like the way mine fits more than some of the pre-fab ones. I think they could have had it stick more towards the rear seats and not have it stick as far out into the hatch area at the back. Looks really good though man!


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Yeah I would have to buy a lot of materials since I'd never fiberglassed before and with how little time I have lately, this was the best option for me. 
Definitely want to try it someday!


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## brocken (Apr 26, 2010)

Looks good! I really like the Audio Integrations enclosures. Even though I could build one myself now I realize the quality and value of their boxes. If I billed myself for the hours it would take to make one that nice I'd be WAY over what one of theirs cost.

If you guys think the door rattles are bad try having a back deck! I've been chasing ghosts in mine and still have a terrible rattle from the back when I'm on rough surfaces.


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## subiemax (Nov 19, 2007)

My rear deck is awefull!


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Lucky to have a hatchback! But my hatch door plastic trim rattles. I just got some RAAMmat in to cover it with.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

what are the small (about) 3 inch speakers you have sitting above the dashh that you put in the pcv cylinders? what company and model? and very creative with them too


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

SkizeR said:


> what are the small (about) 3 inch speakers you have sitting above the dashh that you put in the pcv cylinders? what company and model? and very creative with them too


Thanks! They're Tang Band W3-1364SA 3" Bamboo Cone drivers
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-844


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## rsutton1223 (May 29, 2011)

More pictures!! Where is the front stage shots?! 

Looking forward to seeing the results on this one.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

How did the A pillars turn out?....pics....thanks


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Haven't had a chance to finish up the pillars, unfortunately. No garage to work in and this heat is brutal! I'm waiting for the cool autumn to wrap these up.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

saMxp said:


> Haven't had a chance to finish up the pillars, unfortunately. No garage to work in and this heat is brutal! I'm waiting for the cool autumn to wrap these up.




Try 110 during the day and 90 at night, here in Vegas, but it's a dry heat....good luck with your build


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

No doubt! I always check back here for updates from our group of 08+ WRXs!


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

So when do I get to hear it?


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Possibly on May 12th? Haven't changed a thing since I first put it all together! 

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Awesome! I just bought a 2007 WRX Wagon and thought about using an MS-8


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Nice! Well I'm a tremendous fan of the MS8. For my goals, it doesn't get better than this. Can't wait to see your WRX!


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## wirechild (Apr 22, 2011)

Hey man, nice build. I have the same car in SWP. Hoping to improve the sound real soon.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

trojan fan said:


> How did the A pillars turn out?....pics....thanks


So, years later...
I finally got around to redoing these. Some pics from work in progress:


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Painted with truck bedliner:


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Those came out very well! Are the TB's going back in?


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Yeah, sticking with the Tang Bands for now, but ready for some new 6.5ers! 
What were those you just put in?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

I put in Jordans......I've got a nice set of AP Arians for sale  I'm not sure if I'll sell my Lotus Refs or not.....


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Man, I've been dying to try the Seas Lotus! We need to tall about the AP's, though! How would you describe them?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Extremely good resolution, detailed, and fast. They are fantastic as well in a 2 way set up, which to me makes them more usable - that is why I was contemplating using them in home towers with a tweet. Only reason I replaced them was to get something to play a little lower, but you don't cross that low.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Yeah, I really don't plan on dropping below 70Hz because of these rattling doors if nothing else. Do you have specs available on them?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

saMxp said:


> Yeah, I really don't plan on dropping below 70Hz because of these rattling doors if nothing else. Do you have specs available on them?


Sorry Sam - Haven't gotten back to you on this. You can find information here: 

Arians


PDF Sheet

They were brilliant playing 70hz.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

We are going to need to talk about those! Look very interesting.

Got the pillars in. Haven't even re-run the calibration and already I would say there is an improvement in the sound. More detail that I didn't hear when they were severely off-axis. A little harsh in the upper midrange but hoping that will go away in the MS-8 recalibration.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

I think I have a similar problem. I have my widebands a bit too far off axis than I would prefer, and I think I lose a bit of detail. I'm going to attempt to correct that partially by adding tweeters and limiting the passband of the widebands a bit. Still undecided how I want to mount everything though. That last photo looks like they are nicely on-axis! I bet after your re-cal it will sound awesome!


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Yeah, I was marginally considering wiring my factory tweeters in the sail panels to the extra channels on the MS8 to improve sibilance but moving these on-axis has eliminated that, for sure. Just a few more hours til quitting time so I can re-cal!


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Nice! Yea, I'm going to keep the tweeters as close to my midranges as possible since they will be sharing time alignment for now. Once I get a new processor (likely Alpine H800), I kind of want to see how the mids would do in the kick panel area. But we'll see.


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## captainobvious (Mar 11, 2006)

Yeah, the TB bamboo's really need to be up high (pillars/dash corners) and on axis if you want to run them without tweeters. Too much roll off otherwise in those upper octaves.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Ok, so after a dozen recalibrations, or so, here are my findings:
1) Yes, I am definitely getting some more subtle clarity in the upper midrange. Sibilance and ghosting in percussive instruments are more apparent and detailed. Still have some harshness that improves when I eq out a 3db "dip" around 2-3kHz. Probably characteristic of the Tang Bands (or my ears).
2) I am having a much harder time getting a solid center image. Previously, with them pointed at a point roughly above the shift knob, there was a very solid center image. Now, the soundstage is a lot more diffuse on many tracks. 
I tried some of the MS8 tricks (looking slightly past center, and past the mirrors for L&R) and the best I could do is just look straight ahead and then directly at the mirrors for L&R. The image is less diffuse now, but centered over the steering wheel. I prefer it centered on the dash, but maybe this is a tradeoff I need to live with. 
When I move my head just a few inches towards the center of the car, the soundstage is spaced out much more nicely. I'm thinking that this driver side Tang Band is just far too "in my face" to correct properly. I'm trying a different seating position to try to get a little further away from it but this granny transmission has some long throws that require some reaching in fifth and third gear, even with my chimpanzee arms. 

Overall, I am happy with the way they look. Happy with the improvement in tonality/sound. Disappointed the image took a hit.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

Good stuff Sam! I'm looking forward to getting a listen with your changes. See you tomorrow.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

Definitely looking forward to hearing your impressions. See you tomorrow!


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Well with those pillars it doesn't seem like it would be too back to pull the pods back off, adjust, and re-spray them. I think I agree with you about the center image. Originally, I had my Trinities almost right on axis. But the pillar pods were just too obtrusive. When I moved them more off axis, I think I had a better center image, but may have lost some of the upper detail. Maybe you can split the difference between the two positions?


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## DJTrevLuv (Apr 15, 2008)

bertholomey said:


> I put in Jordans......I've got a nice set of AP Arians for sale  I'm not sure if I'll sell my Lotus Refs or not.....


If you don't sell these to saMxp please let me know. I'm looking to put the same speakers in my 2013 WRX.

Thanks!

Trevor


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

ecbmxer said:


> Well with those pillars it doesn't seem like it would be too back to pull the pods back off, adjust, and re-spray them. I think I agree with you about the center image. Originally, I had my Trinities almost right on axis. But the pillar pods were just too obtrusive. When I moved them more off axis, I think I had a better center image, but may have lost some of the upper detail. Maybe you can split the difference between the two positions?


I'll probably do something like that but these are JB Welded in place so there won't be any changes happening to this set. I'd have to completely redo them. Easiest thing might be to take the cups to a bench disc sander and change the angle on the face. The opening would be a little oblong but I don't think it would take much. With the tiny neodymium magnets in the Tang Bands, it should be able to sit in there a little crooked.


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## slade1274 (Mar 25, 2008)

The good thing is that they are only $25


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

slade1274 said:


> The good thing is that they are only $25


Sure is. I think I found them for $18 online, and bought an extra set to have when I sell the car and end up with a dodo buyer that wants me to revert to stock. Might need to hack them up and go on and order another set.


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## ecbmxer (Dec 1, 2010)

Yea, actually thats a damn good idea. You could probably just trace a line around them and do it with a dremel wheel. Then maybe epoxy on a new MDF mounting ring. I hate building pillars. I'm on my second set and am trying hard to not have to re-do them to go more on axis. ALthough adding tweeters means I still have to modify something.


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

ecbmxer said:


> Yea, actually thats a damn good idea. You could probably just trace a line around them and do it with a dremel wheel. Then maybe epoxy on a new MDF mounting ring. I hate building pillars. I'm on my second set and am trying hard to not have to re-do them to go more on axis. ALthough adding tweeters means I still have to modify something.


Yeah, I don't think I could get them very straight with a Dremel! Adding tweeters would be not only fabrication but more wires and tuning that I really want to avoid. Plus I love the simplicity of the augmented wideband setup. I've got some PTO to burn so I might just take a day off and try putting these to the bench grinder to aim them five degrees back or so. I hate building pillars, too. It took forever painstakingly dremeling out the opening to fit these PVC cups in snug. I like the intersecting geometric shapes look, though. Sort of what much of the interior looks like, so I think it flows well for a massive 4" PVC cup sitting there.


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

DJTrevLuv said:


> If you don't sell these to saMxp please let me know. I'm looking to put the same speakers in my 2013 WRX.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Trevor


PM sent


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## sirbOOm (Jan 24, 2013)

What sizes on the router template did you use for the baffles in the pvc caps?


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

I don't recall but I ended up finding an easier way. I just bought a 3 inch PVC pipe section and glued it inside the cup and then trimmed it flush with the edge of the cup. Provided a perfect mounting surface to drill holes and tap screws into.


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## jfrosty42 (Jul 4, 2009)

Sweet pods! I'm looking into something similar. They're just 3" pvc end caps?


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## saMxp (Jun 22, 2007)

jfrosty42 said:


> Sweet pods! I'm looking into something similar. They're just 3" pvc end caps?


yep! I saw somebody do something similar at a local car audio meand decided that I wanted to take some of the intersecting geometry look subaru has done in the dashboard and do it with the end caps


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