# P860MP&CDT EF6-CF/TW-25S vs. CD8454&Seas CA18RNX/LPG



## hcbassplay (Jun 19, 2005)

Well, I just got my 8454 in the mail today from newtitan and am finally able to try out the CA18's and 25nfa's that I have had installed for a week with no HU :evil: I have totally revamped my system besides for my amps, so this is my reveiw of my new and old setups...

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OLD SYSTEM
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P860MP- A good HU, controls were more convenient than the eclipse but I felt that the graphic EQ somehow had a negative effect on the sound if used for anything but light eq-ing. I have owned way too many of the pioneer flashy dolphin OEL's and this is kind of boring to me now. Overall a good looking and sounding deck, no major gripes. The right knob was a little too wiggly so it was hard to cope with somtimes on less than perfect roads. I do like the fact that it had satellite radio support but the compression artifacts on the XM really started to grate against my ears.

CDT TW25s- I only have one word for these tweeters: weenie. Sorry if I offended anybody with my bluntness, please do not take offense if you own them but I could not stand them. They seemed to not be voiced to anything... everything they played lacked crispness and detail, and fatigued my ears badly. If this is laid back then give me some red bull any day.

CDT EF6CF- I love the look of these mids, they are very well built, but the sound was less than satisfactory. They had major breakup past 2.5k(why cdt crosses them at 5k in their passives I will never figure out, thank goodness I run active), They had little or no midbass and major peaking from 800hz to about 1.7-8k. Getting these eq'ed to a listenable level was nearly impossible with the 13 band in the pioneer, especially since it seemed to have an unnatural effect on the sound when used heavily, but I am suspicious even a 30 band wouldn't have helped.

Overall- The CDT's were not awful for the price I paid but I can't understand what the deal is with the bandwagon. They just didn't impress me, and this wasn't the only CDT set I've owned either... I think that they were decent but you could do better for the price. I also got nothing back out of them as their resale value is near zero since a certain CDT pusher(some of you guys know who I'm talking about) has completely flooded all of the forums with them. It's almost like they have something set up where CDT says "This is a $399 set" to push their supposed value up and they seem to only sell online for like $200, and then people think they are getting a killer deal for $399 worth of speaker, but in actuality they are getting more like $100 worth of performance. IMO, of course.

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NEW SYSTEM
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Eclipse CD8454- I love the look of this deck compared to the pioneer, because it matches my truck much better. I fell in love with this design and want to go postal at fujitsu ten for them never offering one in this style with support for satellite radio. I can't beleive they add sirius support and then make their decks look like JVC's. Good move guys. The controls aren't exactly what I would call natural, but they are Ok once you get used to them. The display lags behind the buttons a little but I got used to it pretty fast. The knob remote the deck comes with is absolutely pathetic, thank goodness newtitan gave me the new style no knob remote with the deck. Many of the functions of this deck are similar, so I can't really say either has more features. Everybody complains about the 128k encoding limit for the memory stick, but truthfully the compression artifacts are less noticable than those on my XM, which could be almost unlistenable at times, especially if the EQ wasn't set just right. Either way I listen to mostly CD's so it isn't a super huge deal. The 10 band para is also much more natural sounding, and much more flexible than the pioneer 13 band graphic. It doesn't leave the sound "damgaged" sounding like the pioneer did.

LPG 25nfa- These are so much better than the CDT's in so many ways. They need nearly no EQ'ing, are crisp in the 6.5k and up range, and if the crossover slope is set correctly are smooth below that as well. Listening fatigue is almost non-existant for me. They also get louder with less power and sound better doing it.

Seas CA18RNX- These mids are just plain great sounding. There is none of that honky, annoying, ear fatigue causing midrange, and none of the even more awful breakup past 2.5k. They have a warm and full sounding midbass, not the over-snappy kind that is hard to mesh with a sub, and not the mud kind that makes you want to EQ all of the bass out. They are also very well built, I love the ventilated voice coil.

Overall- I prefer the second combination GREATLY. The overall sound of the system is a heck of a lot closer towards what I would call perfect, and for once I am content to leave my system the way it is for a little while. I am so happy that I decided to change all of that old gear out I just don't think words can describe it....

(P.S. thanks for moving this to review npdang)


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## 87DXHatch (Jun 25, 2005)

Sounds pretty sweet... you have a great deal of the equipment I'm wanting to put into my current install. I have the CA18RNXs already, I'm just waiting on the funds to get teh 8454.

However, in my set up, I'll be using the Aurum Cantus G2Sis instead of the LPGs. I wonder how that'll differ.

Where do you have the CA18RNXs lowpassed at for the upper limit? How's the midbass? What wattage do you have going to them?


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## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Awesome review! You got some great gear there.


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## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

how high do you have those ca18's playing?


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## hcbassplay (Jun 19, 2005)

At first I had them playing at 2.5k 12db/O with the LPG's running 6.3k 12db/O but after I did some eq'ing I now am running the CA18's at 3.15k 24db/O and the LPG's 5k 12db/O. I have a lame door location that I have done my best to make due with--- it kind of mutes the upper mids so once I had all the levels matched and eq'ed properly I was able to raise the x-over point a little without frying my ears due to the upper mid attenuation. I have the mids crossed over at 80hz 12db/O but will probably switch to 18db/O when I add the sub. The midbass I would describe as spanky... it has a little snap but not so much it becomes annoying or hard to tame, and it has a little bit of rounded low end but not enough to muddy everything up.

BTW, I noticed I didn't mention the amps I'm using in the first post; I have a Zapco studio 50 on the LPG's 25RMS each, and a studio 150 on the mids 37.5RMS each. I have another studio 150 and I tried bridging one studio to each mid for 150RMS a piece and really liked it for a few days but then began to feel it was a little overwhelming after I got to spend a little more time with my new system.

I have an XLS10 autosound model on the way from madisound due on thursday, I am going to bridge my second studio 150 to it at 300RMS and will post a review of it this weekend in this post...


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## ws6 beat (Jul 14, 2005)

what happened to the frequencies from 3.15k to k do you have a mid running those frequencies?


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## hcbassplay (Jun 19, 2005)

Sometimes if you overlap your crossover frequencies too close you can cause a peak. If you cross your mids and tweets over at the same frequecies sometimes the slope of one can add to the slope of the other and that makes a peak at the crossover frequency. You can avoid this by spacing your mid and tweet crossover frequencies apart and adjusting the slopes to match. A lot of this is dependent on your locations, as well. I am running my tweets up high so a large gap in crossover frequency helps to blend the sound a little between the mids and tweets. If you dig around a little you will find several other posts here that will show a similar result. When I was first learning to utilize an active system it took a while for me to wrap my brain around ignoring what the knobs say and adjusting the system by ear. 

This is also a very difficult issue for musicians. I've been playing bass for many years and one of the most commonly seen pieces of advice given by pros(30+ years playing proffesionally) is to EQ with your ears and not your eyes.


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## ahboy (Jul 20, 2005)

*Hi*

hcbassplay bro, mind to share what amp did u used to drive them?? What is the different between poly, aluminum and paper cone mids for these seas bass speakers? Thanks bro.

Regards,
ahboy


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## hcbassplay (Jun 19, 2005)

I am using a Zapco studio 50 ([email protected]) for the highs and a Zapco studio 150 ([email protected]) for the mids. They aren't exactly powerhouses but are clean reliable power that is sufficient for my needs, and those of the speakers. You can find them on ebay cheap now and then.


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## ahboy (Jul 20, 2005)

*Hi*

Thanks for ur reply bro, i'm planning to upgrade as my old setup is:-

hu - eclipse 8051
xover - Macrom 48.13
compset - CDT CL61
compset amp - TRU T4.65
sub - Onyx SST124
sub amp - Orion XTR9002 G5

I'm planning to upgrade component sets but dunno what to get and also the front amp. my tru4.65 is 4x65rms but what dingaling tested is around 83rms per channel. I tot it is insufficient to drive 8 ohm driver so i already sold it n now planning which to get, please recommend me a few clean n powerful amp please. Thanks. Btw i'm still new in ice.


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## racerraul (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: Hi*



ahboy said:


> I tot it is insufficient to drive 8 ohm driver so i already sold it n now planning which to get, please recommend me a few clean n powerful amp please. Thanks. Btw i'm still new in ice.


You should read this about 8ohm drivers...
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33

Your Tru amp was perfect, so you might want to get another one. Other than that the new Alpines are very good, Diamond Audio amps are very good as well. Also Zedaudio amps are worth a look too. Many, many more good choices out there....

If I had the room I would give the Zed a try because of their built in xOvers, but for power & size, the Alpines are tough to beat...


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## 99StangGT (Jun 12, 2005)

right now i have the ca18s playing through my IDcxs64 crossovers with the aura tweets, I know the 8 ohms will change the crossover points. I replaced my Vifa pl18 4ohms. It is just as loud with the ca18 as with the pl18s. sounds better also. Playing on 130wx2 amp. I had to try it to hear the difference


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## 10K2HVN (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: Hi*



racerraul said:


> ahboy said:
> 
> 
> > I tot it is insufficient to drive 8 ohm driver so i already sold it n now planning which to get, please recommend me a few clean n powerful amp please. Thanks. Btw i'm still new in ice.
> ...


i want to try the Zed amps too, but the price of the Alpines are really tough to beat!


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## ahboy (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Hi*



racerraul said:


> You should read this about 8ohm drivers...
> http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33
> 
> Your Tru amp was perfect, so you might want to get another one. Other than that the new Alpines are very good, Diamond Audio amps are very good as well. Also Zedaudio amps are worth a look too. Many, many more good choices out there....
> ...


Thanks for ur reply, which model of alpine n zed is good enuf to drive them, now i'm think to get the ca18rnx, later will try out the excel. Both driver sensitivity is around 87-88db.

BTW the page is not available.

regards,
ahboy.


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## lv_v (Aug 24, 2005)

npdang recommended the MRV-F345; cheap and very flexible in active setups.


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## evangelos K (Aug 27, 2005)

hcbassplay said:


> Eclipse CD8454- I love the look of this deck compared to the pioneer, because it matches my truck much better. I fell in love with this design and want to go postal at fujitsu ten for them never offering one in this style with support for satellite radio. I can't beleive they add sirius support and then make their decks look like JVC's. Good move guys. The controls aren't exactly what I would call natural, but they are Ok once you get used to them. The display lags behind the buttons a little but I got used to it pretty fast. The knob remote the deck comes with is absolutely pathetic, thank goodness newtitan gave me the new style no knob remote with the deck. Many of the functions of this deck are similar, so I can't really say either has more features. Everybody complains about the 128k encoding limit for the memory stick, but truthfully the compression artifacts are less noticable than those on my XM, which could be almost unlistenable at times, especially if the EQ wasn't set just right. Either way I listen to mostly CD's so it isn't a super huge deal. The 10 band para is also much more natural sounding, and much more flexible than the pioneer 13 band graphic. It doesn't leave the sound "damgaged" sounding like the pioneer did.


Glad you like it On the other hand, I found the 8454 to have the "damaged" sound you described  Everything about that deck was HORRIBLE, IMO. I sold it next day after I got it.


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## lv_v (Aug 24, 2005)

How do you give an audio component less than 24 hours to show its best?? Does not make sense. I call a bluff. ESPECIALLY a headunit. Eclipse headunits have so many different settings that you could not possibly have changed out a headunit overnight because of "damaged" sound. WTF is damaged sound anyways??? Hard to belive you even played with the 8454 at all; I spent much more time than that playing with my friend's 8454 and it was in his install, not mine!


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## hcbassplay (Jun 19, 2005)

Just to clear up, damaged as in "overprocessed", or having a great effect on overall tonality. I can't describe it any other way than such as a guitarist, if you play through too long of a chain of FX pedals using too many FX at once, your tone loses its backbone. It can still sound good, but has no cajones for some reason.

The eclipse seemed to make minor tweaks to the sound, the pioneer seemed to hit it with a baseball bat. That was in my particular system, and other other p860mp systems I have heard have had different results.


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## ahboy (Jul 20, 2005)

Wow more than 1 year liao i didnt post here due to my work loads.

Btw i hav upgrade my setup to the one on my signature.

B4 this i try the L18rnx/p that bro npdang recommended, the driver is a very good driver, but a bit muddle once i try to lower down to 50hz. Now i upgraded to seas lotus reference, very nice speakers.

I also try eclipse8454 b4, the difference between 8051 n 8454 is the higher frequencies much more clearer than the 8051 but not as warm as 8051.

Thanks guys

regards
ahboy


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