# My Simple Durango R/T Install



## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Let’s get this party started!


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

Damn u doing true IB I see. Got the idea from pssounds ??

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Yes, IB. But no, I’ve been wanting to do vented subs to atmosphere since we did this Ram in 2015:

Well someone's gonna have fun
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...om/forum/showthread.php?t=237089&share_type=t


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## GreatLaBroski (Jan 20, 2018)

Well that's one hell of a way to start a build thread.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

Holy $#!t!!!!


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Note to self, if buying a used Dodge Durango R/T in a few years, check the rear tub for some very large holes! (and hope they left the speakers in)


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Hah! 

Yes, I figured we should kick it off with a bang. 

What you’re seeing is the underside of the hatch area.

In this pic you can get a better idea of the plan. The Durango has limited cargo space and I didn’t want to lose any... The subs will mount inverted and the magnets will fit under the cargo area floor tray. The underside of the third row seats is wide open for them to breath out into the cabin. The baffle template is MDF, but the final piece will be HDPE.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

benny z said:


> The baffle template is MDF, but the final piece will be HDPE.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

quickaudi07 said:


> Damn u doing true IB I see. Got the idea from pssounds ??
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


awww **** !! PsSounds is my dude!!! love his IB setup!!! every needs to jump on youtube and watch and subscribe!!! this build is sick sick to!!!


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## D34dl1fter (Jun 23, 2016)

Looks like a great start ben! I will say after having done this in the versa it will be a mainstay in all of my builds from here on out...effortless bass without taking up much real estate...and hell it's pretty wild to think I just had a massive hole (in your case 2) cut in the bottom of my perfectly good (maybe new) car lol


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Yeah, once you play with IB it’s hard not to want it all the time. I am fortunate to get my hands on a lot of systems with every type of sub configuration you can think of and I always find IB subs to have an effortless quality to them that is unique from the others.

I titled the thread simple, but then showed an obnoxious-looking start. Let me clarify that the system will truly be simple once you get past the holes in the floor. 

The system will consist of:

- Hybrid Legatia L2SE as widebands in the factory sail panel tweeter locations
- Hybrid Unity U69 shallow 2-ohm version 6x9s in the factory door locations
- Hybrid Clarus C12SW subwoofers IB through the rear cargo floor
- Zapco ADSP-Z8 IV-8 processor/amplifier combo unit with controller under the driver’s seat
- PAC AmpPRO AP4-CH41 with S/PDIF module for factory source unit integration to the proc/amp


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

And just like that, you have my attention. Couldn't bring myself to cut the metal in mine but I sure wanted to.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Thanks Mike - I took a look at your build and it looks fantastic! Actually, we even have a video of your system hosted on the SQOLOGY YouTube channel:

https://youtu.be/_QUZCNFXwFg

Toby Broadfield, my installer at Mobile Audio Plus, is waiting for a fresh shipment of HDPE and today is working on the doors. I stopped in at lunch and snagged a couple of quick pics.

Door cards treated:










And another shot of the hatch with a sub sitting in place so you can see the fitment:


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## MoparMike (Feb 14, 2012)

I appreciate the compliment Ben. Good luck with the build. I'm sure you'll love the Durango, mine has been a great car for the both stereo and the family.


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## chefhow (Apr 29, 2007)

Nice work Ben.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

chefhow said:


> Nice work Ben.


reminds me of the Scion with the 13W7


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

any time i see metal being cut it gets me excited. this is gonna be cool!


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

Cojones, son!!! You got em.


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## ballistic1350 (Jan 16, 2015)

Subbed to see how you tackle cleaning up the gaps between the pieces of sheet metal to prevent rust... and how how protect the sub from road debris/ water.

Very ballzy! massive props to you there


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

I'm not positive what the product is that Toby uses to seal cut sheet metal, but it's a rubbery epoxy sealer type product. I'll be sure to post those details when that time comes. This isn't the first time they've done this and I've seen the product before, but don't know exactly what it is off hand.



The Clarus subwoofer cones use a polypropylene diaphragm, which provides water resistance in the event they used in all-weather climates such as this. With them being inverted, the basket and motor/magnet side will be inside the cabin, so no chance of road debris/water getting into the mechanical side. In the first picture of this thread you can also see a plastic U-shaped guard which conveniently protects this area from splashes to begin with - I doubt they'll ever see much water/debris unless the underside is being directly sprayed while being washed. I had the vehicle ceramic coated recently and have been hand washing it with a rinse-less wash product and don't intend to be taking it through automatic car washes.


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## chithead (Mar 19, 2008)

That's one perty Durango...


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

I can't wait to see this best in action Ben, is it going to be ready by 15??

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Scratch that - guess we are doing grills after all lol :shrug:


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Action shot. Yep, I’ve got two vehicles here hogging bays at the moment...


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Door outer skin matting:










And both front and back sides of the inner door skin panel:


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Beginnings of mounting rings for the flangeless L2SE. Guess I should mention they’re silver phase plug super super limited “ain’t nobody seen deez yet” versions.










And if you haven’t seen the shallow Unity 6x9s...


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)




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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

ewwwwweeeeee!!!!


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## Mlarson67 (Jan 9, 2015)

Gotta say it takes balls to cut two holes that size into the floor of a vehicle. Or should I say commitment?


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

It's really cool too see such a install. The only thing that worries me is the stricture of the frame of the car its self. I don't know much about it... Just a thought that ran through my head. 

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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

^That thin sheet metal doesn't have anything structural about it.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

As I stated don't know much about it. Ben posted pics on FB, and it looks like it has a very good structure... I can't wait to see it in person.


Niebur3 said:


> ^That thin sheet metal doesn't have anything structural about it.


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## leogcalegari (Jun 13, 2017)

Mlarson67 said:


> Gotta say it takes balls to cut two holes that size into the floor of a vehicle. Or should I say commitment?


BIG balls


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

looking good Ben


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

will you still be able to use the spare? it looks like it will mount right back up, or at least i hope so.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

brett said:


> will you still be able to use the spare? it looks like it will mount right back up, or at least i hope so.




Good question...

Originally I was going to use 15s, but in order for them to fit under the factory cargo tray floor piece we would have had to pound out the floor, which would mean I’d lose the spare for sure. No pounding required to make the 12s fit with the spare, so went with the 12s. The spare will block some of the opening so I’ll probably keep it off except for road trips. But it should be possible to put it back in place when I want.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

benny z said:


> Good question...
> 
> Originally I was going to use 15s, but in order for them to fit under the factory cargo tray floor piece we would have had to pound out the floor, which would mean I’d lose the spare for sure. No pounding required to make the 12s fit with the spare, so went with the 12s. The spare will block some of the opening so I’ll probably keep it off except for road trips. But it should be possible to put it back in place when I want.


When you get finished, you should measure effect of having the spare mounted and the spare removed and see if there is a measurable difference.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

For sure - I’ll do that!


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## LumbermanSVO (Nov 11, 2009)

I wish I could do true IB, but I like convertibles too much!


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

This is nuts..... Ben is a crazy man:laugh:


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Stopped in yesterday for aiming of the L2SE drivers in the sail panels. Ended up with them aimed just behind the temple on either side of my head - basically just above my ears on axis. 

Now the rings have been secured with a two-part polyurethane that adheres extremely well to plastic. Toby operates “Broadfield Customs” - a custom gauge cluster company popular among the Nissan crowd. This is the same stuff he’s been using for a long time to bond custom gauges. This is easier, faster, and stronger than stretching fabric for fiberglassing the pods, and ultimately very dense material. He’ll simply build up the pod shape from here. 










Not much else to see otherwise. The 6x9s are in the doors - Fast Rings will go between them and the door cards when they go back on.










And the subs are in place - the baffle still needs to be bolted down and the cuts for the holes painted. Then the baffle will be sealed to the holes and some finish sanding of the interior trim piece - then that should be a wrap for the subs.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Taking shape:


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## LOST_llama (Feb 10, 2013)

BennyZ, what is the name of the two-part material you are referring to?

Also, how did you get a set of flangeless L2SE's?



benny z said:


> Stopped in yesterday for aiming of the L2SE drivers in the sail panels. Ended up with them aimed just behind the temple on either side of my head - basically just above my ears on axis.
> 
> Now the rings have been secured with a two-part polyurethane that adheres extremely well to plastic. Toby operates “Broadfield Customs” - a custom gauge cluster company popular among the Nissan crowd. This is the same stuff he’s been using for a long time to bond custom gauges. This is easier, faster, and stronger than stretching fabric for fiberglassing the pods, and ultimately very dense material. He’ll simply build up the pod shape from here.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

I’ll ask Toby what the name of the product is tomorrow. 

You can buy flangeless Hybrid drivers by request through any dealer. L2SE and L3SE flangeless drivers are available on the 12v Electronics website if you don’t have a dealer near you.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

It’s Norton SpeedGrip.

https://www.emisupply.com/catalog/n...inute-urethane-220ml-p-2234.html#.W5CY26ROmaM


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

This should be a wrap tomorrow.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Not quite done. But close. The tweeter pods...I mean middler pods...aren’t much bigger than most tweeter pods.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

So much awesome-ness going on here!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

DavidRam said:


> So much awesome-ness going on here!




Toby does amazing work. 

Some better pics:




























There will be trim rings around the drivers to finish them off.


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

Looks incredible!


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## cycleguy (Feb 10, 2018)

Very nice clean job there are they wrapped or painted ?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

They are texture painted...they’re integrated into the entire window surround piece - no real place to start/stop a wrap.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Aaaand they’re done!


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## almatias (Nov 16, 2012)

Beautiful!!


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## truckguy (Sep 2, 2013)

Looks amazing!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

Looks great! Who is going to be first to press on the cones?


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

man, that does look good. i may have missed this, but what are the crossover points on those?

also, the more i look at the durango dash, it would look sweet with a suede/alcantara dash!


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

rton20s said:


> Looks great! Who is going to be first to press on the cones?


What about rain/snow and opening the door?? 

They look amazing though!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

almatias said:


> Beautiful!!





truckguy said:


> Looks amazing!


thanks guys!



brett said:


> man, that does look good. i may have missed this, but what are the crossover points on those?
> 
> also, the more i look at the durango dash, it would look sweet with a suede/alcantara dash!


i've got them crossed at 350hz for break-in currently...probably where they'll stay.

with where the drivers are located and aimed, they avoid reflecting off the dash entirely. that would look nice, though!



Niebur3 said:


> What about rain/snow and opening the door??
> 
> They look amazing though!


the cones are water resistant. not too worried about a little sprinkling hitting them. probably safer hitting these cones than textile tweeters.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

rton20s said:


> Looks great! Who is going to be first to press on the cones?


hands off, bucko!


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## jake789 (Feb 4, 2009)

Curious why you picked the sail location vs the A pillar. I thought the pillar would be better for time alignment?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

jake789 said:


> Curious why you picked the sail location vs the A pillar. I thought the pillar would be better for time alignment?



Placement has no real effect on signal delay with them as close as they are up here - going to have to delay the left side signal to match the arrival time of the right side signal regardless.

By placing them in the pillars I eek out a bit more width. Width is almost entirely dependent on driver location - getting them as wide as possible was the goal. See the illustration - the red lines provide width outside the pillars while the blue lines keep the stage within the pillars. 










Also, pillar pods would have created additional blind spots - with them in the OEM sail panel location where the factory tweeters were, I’ve not created any additional blind spots.


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

Those look incredible!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

benny z said:


> hands off, bucko!


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

sails can also cause horseshoeing of the stage (however from a competition standpoint iasca and meca don't take that in to account). 

Great width can be had due to side glass reflection, but that great width can also collapse LC and RC, so (in my experience) careful aiming is required to find the best compromise.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Spent about 1 hour after work setting initial listening response correction per driver and the delay. I then quickly set a reasonable overall curve and drove some tonight. After dinner and putting the kids to bed I spent another 45 minutes finessing the EQ. And then about another hour listening to music lol (thanks for the demo music Steve Head!)

I’m super happy with the result. It’s got the width my truck always lacked, which was one of my goals. It’s also got layers my truck never had. 

I wouldn’t say it horse-shoes, but there is definitely 3D dimension with a pretty massive stage. It’s a big vehicle so I was hoping it’d lend itself well to a big stage. That was another goal.

Tonally it’s where I want it. I may need to adjust slightly as the speakers go through the break-in period, but at the moment it’s very lifelike.

The sub bass is effortless and enormous if I want it to be. I cut back the overall sub level significantly vs the other channels in the amp. Plenty of room to go up if I want to get a little silly. No problem getting 16hz pipe organ pedal pressure.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Almost forgot...

The little thing under the driver’s seat driving the whole system:










There’s a storage cubby under there that matches the battery cubby under the passenger’s seat. Tucks away nicely in there...and the floor piece cover goes right back over it so it’s 100% stealth/hidden.


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## ErinH (Feb 14, 2007)

nice work!


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## Garcbomber (May 26, 2017)

I'd have to hear an IB setup, but can't believe you get any decent impact with an enclosure being earth let alone cones facing the wrong direction. Probably sounds better to the neighbor vehicle!

Nicely done though, just bought the wife a 6.4 durango.


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## truckguy (Sep 2, 2013)

I’m hoping I get to hear this setup in a few days. I’m also hoping if you compete you’ll be in another class! Lol.


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## lowcel (Dec 28, 2014)

Very nice!


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## rton20s (Feb 14, 2011)

benny z said:


> Almost forgot...
> 
> The little thing under the driver’s seat driving the whole system:
> 
> ...


Awesome! I didn't even know Aurigin had pre-production units in their hands. Or is this the first of production models? I still plan to use a pair of those for the wife's car.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

This was a pre-production unit we had on display at Kfest, however the first production units have arrived and are ready to ship!


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Garcbomber said:


> I'd have to hear an IB setup, but can't believe you get any decent impact with an enclosure being earth let alone cones facing the wrong direction. Probably sounds better to the neighbor vehicle!
> 
> 
> 
> Nicely done though, just bought the wife a 6.4 durango.




I assure you, the subs are absolutely fantastic. You’ll have to find an IB sub vehicle to experience yourself. In fact you’re welcome to come listen to this one at our SQOLOGY event here in Bloomington, Illinois, this Saturday.


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## LOST_llama (Feb 10, 2013)

@benny z, this turned out amazing. How do the 6x9's sound? 

Also, how do the 2's vent into the door? Do you have any concern of the pressure caused by the 6x9's effecting the 2's? 

I have a Grand Cherokee that is very similar to the Durango and you are really starting to inspire me to change directions with my install.


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## metanium (Feb 2, 2007)

Garcbomber said:


> I'd have to hear an IB setup, but can't believe you get any decent impact with an enclosure being earth let alone cones facing the wrong direction. Probably sounds better to the neighbor vehicle!
> 
> Nicely done though, just bought the wife a 6.4 durango.


Once you hear a good IB install, you'll wonder why anyone would ever mess with enclosures. Unfortunately, the reality of having a vehicle w/o a trunk, you'd have to be as bold as Benny & torch to the outdoors to achieve it.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

benny z said:


> with where the drivers are located and aimed, they avoid reflecting off the dash entirely. that would look nice, though!



For those playing at home...


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

LOST_llama said:


> @benny z, this turned out amazing. How do the 6x9's sound?
> 
> Also, how do the 2's vent into the door? Do you have any concern of the pressure caused by the 6x9's effecting the 2's?
> 
> I have a Grand Cherokee that is very similar to the Durango and you are really starting to inspire me to change directions with my install.


The 6x9s are great! They are doing what I need them to do with authority. I've got them crossed at 45hz now and might try taking them a bit lower. Just haven't had a lot of time to play. There are, of course, peaks and dips that I've mostly worked out w/ EQ, but you'll have that in any vehicle - especially with mid basses in doors. The big doors certainly help with these drivers (like most Hybrid drivers, they are designed for IB use - so the more air they "see" behind them, the better).

I've got zero door rattles/resonance, which was a pleasant surprise. Usually when we use these 6x9s or L8s in doors, it's a huge rattle battle. I don't want to jinx it, but it's a non-issue in this case.

The acoustic bass in typical SQ judging tracks, and tracks like Spanish Harlem (OMG yes I just used Spanish Harlem as an example), is out in front of me with the rest of the stage - not pulling down to the doors. Very happy.

The bottom of the sail pods is open to the top of the door. You can see how it "vents" into the door cavity between the inner door skin and door card in this picture.










They don't interact with the 6x9s... The 6x9s have Fast Rings to help mate them up to the door card opening, but they're basically right up against it anyway. Not much, if any, sound waves from the 6x9s end up in the door cavity.



pocket5s said:


> For those playing at home...


You lost me.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

benny z said:


> with where the drivers are located and aimed, they avoid reflecting off the dash entirely.





benny z said:


> You lost me.


Positioned on the sails like that will not entirely avoid reflections off the dash, or anything else for that matter. If they radiated sound like a laser beam, then sure, but they don't.

And fast rings don't do squat for sealing a speaker to a door card. Think about this, take that fast ring foam, put it right up against your ear. If it blocks all the frequencies that the speaker is playing (midbass in this case), then the claim that they direct sound would be true. But I'm 99.99% sure they won't, mostly because the material is too thin to absorb (as they claim) those frequencies. 

On a lighter note, those pods do look really nice and well integrated. the painting of the trim ring and phase plug is a nice touch


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

pocket5s said:


> Positioned on the sails like that will not entirely avoid reflections off the dash, or anything else for that matter. If they radiated sound like a laser beam, then sure, but they don't.
> 
> And fast rings don't do squat for sealing a speaker to a door card. Think about this, take that fast ring foam, put it right up against your ear. If it blocks all the frequencies that the speaker is playing (midbass in this case), then the claim that they direct sound would be true. But I'm 99.99% sure they won't, mostly because the material is too thin to absorb (as they claim) those frequencies.
> 
> On a lighter note, those pods do look really nice and well integrated. the painting of the trim ring and phase plug is a nice touch


For the frequencies where a dash mat might actually do anything to help absorb reflections, you betcha those frequencies are radiated like a laser beam (out away from the dash).

Yes, I understand the fast rings don't block mid bass from escaping into the door. Really, the drivers being up against the door cards is what keeps the sound waves moving out forward. Fast rings for posterity. At any rate, there's no clear interaction from the midbasses in the doors to the 2.5s.

And thank you for the compliment. We didn't paint the phase plugs. These are a prototype silver phase plug from the factory. I wanted them specifically because I wanted to expose the drivers and knew the silver would be a good match w/ the interior.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

benny z said:


> For the frequencies where a dash mat might actually do anything to help absorb reflections, you betcha those frequencies are radiated like a laser beam (out away from the dash).
> 
> Yes, I understand the fast rings don't block mid bass from escaping into the door. Really, the drivers being up against the door cards is what keeps the sound waves moving out forward. Fast rings for posterity. At any rate, there's no clear interaction from the midbasses in the doors to the 2.5s.
> 
> And thank you for the compliment. We didn't paint the phase plugs. These are a prototype silver phase plug from the factory. I wanted them specifically because I wanted to expose the drivers and knew the silver would be a good match w/ the interior.


if they did radiate like a laser beam you wouldn't hear them anyway unless they were pointed right at your ears, so the dash mat would be moot anyway  I didn't want someone who didn't have the implied context to read that and say "well it says here the sails eliminate dash reflections entirely", which in itself is false at worst and misleading (unintentionally I am aware) at best.

even better on the phase plugs.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

For those who were worried about it, the spare is now back in place. And you don’t see anything anymore lol.

...and it doesn’t affect performance.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

benny z said:


> For those who were worried about it, the spare is now back in place. And you don’t see anything anymore lol.
> 
> ...and it doesn’t affect performance.


"what holes?!" Lol


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

That's slick as hell! Love it .

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

awesome! i'm glad you were able to retain the spare. i wish my jgc's spare was mounted there, but there's just not enough room for a full spare diameter. in a way, it kinda makes me wanna look at durangos now....


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## Garcbomber (May 26, 2017)

Are you parking/plugging for the IL winter or testing cone/surround durability?

Also curious on the Ram HD with the muffler heat/drone being right underneath the woofer... Would've fabbed up a 16 ga. heat shield.


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## quickaudi07 (May 19, 2010)

This sure is going to be a good test for the subs. 

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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

I certainly wonder about the long term durability of the subs they will be exposed to so much more moisture than inside the cabin. Okay if you garage park it each night I guess.

I guess moisture will not migrate through the cones to the interior. 

But - I do wonder about road noise. I know they are speakers, but if htey are not playing it sure seems like a lot of road noise would transmit through the paper cones.We put down 1/4" thick MLV over sheet metal and padding and everything else, and then you have two 12" holes with nothing but the diaphragm of the speaker between you and the road. I know from experience one single open seat bolt hole in the floor can increase cabin noise dramatically.

What has been your experience ?

Maybe not as important when they're buried in the hatch but I've often thought about implementing something like this in a truck cab floor only to shy away because of this factor. 


(N/M I went back and found the link to the Ram)


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

No, not parking it for the winter...yes, it’s my daily driver.

Mobile Audio has done a few cars with these subs open to the outside like this and the others are fine now years later...including the Ram despite no heat shield. This one is the most protected of any we’ve done with the location and now the spare tire covering them. I’m not worried about longevity of the subs due to weather/debris exposure, etc. But even if something were to happen to them they’re very easy to swap out. 

I don’t notice any more road noise. The road noise transmits mostly from the rear suspension points...not the flat area of the hatch. The exhaust exits to the sides and further rear-ward of this area. I’ll hop on the interstate soon and mute the stereo to see if it’s any worse on the interstate, but around town up to ~60mph I’ve noticed no additional noise.


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## rennster (Jul 29, 2018)

Would venting the subs to the outside result in sound being projected as well?


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

ok so a few questions. I love the mids up high in the door. Can you give a bit more explanation of how these were done.
1. What did you use to seat the speakers in. In the pic it looks like black pvc of some sort.
2. did you just build up the shape using bondo or something? and then sand to final shape? I like the idea of this more than fiberglass. 
3. did you cut the back of the black pvc or whatever you used to aim the speaker or did you use some popsicle sticks to get the aim right and then put on the epoxy?

Awesome build. Congrats.

Ib is the most linear bass available. I put ib in every vehicle i have had that had a trunk. Don't have the guts to do this to my 15 jeep grand Cherokee.


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## mfenske (Feb 7, 2006)

I wonder if a layer of something like Gore-Tex might provide some water resistance and still allow sound to pass with the subs?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Iamsecond said:


> ok so a few questions. I love the mids up high in the door. Can you give a bit more explanation of how these were done.
> 1. What did you use to seat the speakers in. In the pic it looks like black pvc of some sort.
> 2. did you just build up the shape using bondo or something? and then sand to final shape? I like the idea of this more than fiberglass.
> 3. did you cut the back of the black pvc or whatever you used to aim the speaker or did you use some popsicle sticks to get the aim right and then put on the epoxy?
> ...


1. It’s Norton SpeedGrip.

https://www.emisupply.com/catalog/n...inute-urethane-220ml-p-2234.html#.W5CY26ROmaM

2. Yes, built up off the Speed Grip w/ body filler to shape the pods.

3. Toby glued short sticks to aim the rings, then filled in the space between the panel and ring with the Speed Grip.



mfenske said:


> I wonder if a layer of something like Gore-Tex might provide some water resistance and still allow sound to pass with the subs?


I've seen other people use Gore-Tex material to cover IB openings. I'm sure you could do that. It'd be pretty easy to stretch that over the metal grill at the base of the openings. Everyone else seems to be way more worried about water touching the cones than I am. :shrug:


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

rennster said:


> Would venting the subs to the outside result in sound being projected as well?


Do you mean can you hear the subs outside the vehicle?

Yes... Yes you can. In a garage it's pretty loud. Outside it's really not all that loud.


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## Iamsecond (Jan 3, 2017)

I remember a time in the late 80's early 90's when people were doing installs similar to this and using aperiodic material underneath the speaker separating the speaker from the elements. The same material the Soundworks car had in the trunk of the grand national.


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## pocket5s (Jan 6, 2012)

Aperioidc was used because they largely used pro audio drivers and the speakers of the day were designed for large enclosures. 

The membrane provides a means of resistance in a really small “enclosure” as well as smooths out the impedance. Protection from elements wasn’t a primary reason.

Drivers today are designed with IB in mind and don’t really need them like before (for the most part)

Gortex and other membranes will change the response of the speaker. 

I agree with Ben, let ‘me breathe 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

benny z said:


> ..including the Ram despite no heat shield.


Is this the Ram that had cuts under the rear seat? I saw it once, and can't find the log now....Only asking because I just retired my ram from DD status, time to cut **** up...


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Yes...it’s this thread:

Well someone's gonna have fun
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...om/forum/showthread.php?t=237089&share_type=t


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## truckerfte (Jul 30, 2010)

benny z said:


> Yes...it’s this thread:
> 
> Well someone's gonna have fun
> https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...om/forum/showthread.php?t=237089&share_type=t


Yep, that's the one I was looking for. Now all I need is fresh sawzall blades, and time....


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm amazed you don't get a lot of road noise although in the case of your Durango they are down in that package tray and way back in the rear of the vehicle, and underneath they are in a somewhat quieter area. In that Ram install, those big holes are right under the back seat in a very noisy area of the undercarriage. I as well would love to do this on my truck but hard to go backwards if it ends up being super loud !


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

benny z said:


> I'm not positive what the product is that Toby uses to seal cut sheet metal, but it's a rubbery epoxy sealer type product. I'll be sure to post those details when that time comes. This isn't the first time they've done this and I've seen the product before, but don't know exactly what it is off hand.
> 
> 
> 
> The Clarus subwoofer cones use a polypropylene diaphragm, which provides water resistance in the event they used in all-weather climates such as this. With them being inverted, the basket and motor/magnet side will be inside the cabin, so no chance of road debris/water getting into the mechanical side. In the first picture of this thread you can also see a plastic U-shaped guard which conveniently protects this area from splashes to begin with - I doubt they'll ever see much water/debris unless the underside is being directly sprayed while being washed. I had the vehicle ceramic coated recently and have been hand washing it with a rinse-less wash product and don't intend to be taking it through automatic car washes.


Not audio related, but which ceramic coating did you have applied? It looks fantastic. Had my 4Runner coated and it made cleaning a breeze!


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

I haven't checked in on this build for quite a while for some reason.

Good chit, man. Looks fabuloso!


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

benny z said:


> For those who were worried about it, the spare is now back in place. And you don’t see anything anymore lol.
> 
> ...and it doesn’t affect performance.


Did the spare originally mount on the outside?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Dan750iL said:


> Did the spare originally mount on the outside?


yes. exactly as pictured.


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

I had a chance to listen to Ben's Durango last weekend at the SQOLOGY event in St. Louis. WIDE, WIDE, and WIDER are the three words that best describe the soundstage. I was incredibly impressed with the overall tonality, especially with the L2se's covering so much bandwidth.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

mrichard89 said:


> I had a chance to listen to Ben's Durango last weekend at the SQOLOGY event in St. Louis. WIDE, WIDE, and WIDER are the three words that best describe the soundstage. I was incredibly impressed with the overall tonality, especially with the L2se's covering so much bandwidth.




Thanks Matt! It was nice seeing you again. Hopefully we can get together one of these years when you settle on a new system.


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## Lanson (Jan 9, 2007)

love this thread and miss my Durango, I had to sell it. It was the same color and spec as this one, w/ the red interior. BTW Benny, The Goliath SRT (and replica version) wheels look pretty great on these bodies, check 'em out maybe.


We keep talking about protection of the cones and surround, my initial thought was to use a spray coating of Neverwet (or Everdry), and maybe hit them once a year or so. I'd even consider doing that to the interior cones.


Benny, no center channel? The Durango sounds pretty doggone good with one.


Also, if you are feeling it, the dash on these is now available in the SRT form (and upgrade on R/T) with a "Live Stitch Dash", and you can buy this dash as a part to install on any Durango. It ain't cheap (because its a whole damn dash), but it is stitched leather!


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

I like this a whole bunch; it's subtle and sophisticated at the same time.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

IB.......

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

F off Ben! (I’m so jealous) 
Send me some airsaw blades after your done


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

oabeieo said:


> IB.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Lol well thanks 

I’ve been enjoying this system for almost a year now and love it every day!


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

I’m doing it now 

I’ve been thinking about it lookin at it 

It’s on! 

Although the sundown will get soaked 

Maybe a mesh grill and some flex seal on the cone. 

I’m still doing it ..... I don’t care if I have to replace the sub in four months


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

oabeieo said:


> I’m doing it now
> 
> I’ve been thinking about it lookin at it
> 
> ...


You guys are a bad influence on me. I wonder how well a pair of Punch marine subs would do...

We put these in boats IB and they do sound great, but the hulls have a lot to do with that I think.


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## oabeieo (Feb 22, 2015)

Chaos said:


> You guys are a bad influence on me. I wonder how well a pair of Punch marine subs would do...
> 
> We put these in boats IB and they do sound great, but the hulls have a lot to do with that I think.



Not a bad idea, I’m just doing a can of flex seal and see what happens on my sundown. You know that sub ain’t coming out looking pretty either way


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## onlyontwo (Aug 25, 2011)

How many watts are you feeding those 12's, Ben? I am looking at that same amp/DSP for my Jeep.

Cheers.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

onlyontwo said:


> How many watts are you feeding those 12's, Ben? I am looking at that same amp/DSP for my Jeep.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers.




They’re 2ohm DVC subs each, and the amp does 120w @ 2 ohms...each coil has an amp channel, so roughly 240w to each sub total on tap.

Cheers!


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## onlyontwo (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks, Ben! I am going to drop you a PM too asking about this setup.

Cheers,
-A


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Just wanted to wrap back around and update this thread that I traded this Durango in for a new one. Stereo went with it since it was so integrated.

So, time to start all over!


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## brett (Apr 27, 2005)

can't wait to see what you do with this one


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

How old was your last one and how many miles?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Niebur3 said:


> How old was your last one and how many miles?


It was a ‘15 with 75,200 miles. They gave me $24k for it! The used car market is crazy right now.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Nice.....new car looks great!


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

benny z said:


> It was a ‘15 with 75,200 miles. They gave me $24k for it! The used car market is crazy right now.


And they weren't worried about big IB holes in the back ? Do you think they were even aware ? Was the stereo even part of the trade in discussion ?


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

benny z said:


> Just wanted to wrap back around and update this thread that I traded this Durango in for a new one. Stereo went with it since it was so integrated.
> 
> So, time to start all over!


Where were you guys back in 2007 when I did my Durango? I was the only kid on the block back then. Now I see some crazy / impressive install work that I never thought of. It would have been nice to know back then that I do now. Looking forward to seeing how you cut this one up .

Ge0


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

preston said:


> And they weren't worried about big IB holes in the back ? Do you think they were even aware ? Was the stereo even part of the trade in discussion ?


I had 3 dealerships evaluate it for trade. None of them even popped the rear cargo area and saw the subs, and none of them put it on a lift or had any service techs look at it.

None of them said anything about the sail panels either. Maybe they noticed/maybe they didn’t - if not, it’s a testament to how OEM-ish they look.

At any rate, one of the dealerships asked if there was anything aftermarket on the vehicle before they looked at it and I told them the stereo was aftermarket, but factory integrated and everything works as it’s supposed to. That was the end of the discussion.


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## preston (Dec 10, 2007)

Interesting. You're right that is a huge testament to the quality and oem look of the install.
On the good side, you didn't lose any value due to the system. On the bad side, you didn't gain any value due to the system.
I don't know the market but either way that sounds like a great trade in value though, so no worries.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

preston said:


> Interesting. You're right that is a huge testament to the quality and oem look of the install.
> On the good side, you didn't lose any value due to the system. On the bad side, you didn't gain any value due to the system.
> I don't know the market but either way that sounds like a great trade in value though, so no worries.


Yes, considering I paid $28.5k for it over 2 years ago, I am happy as **** with the $24k trade. Better than me trying to sell it to a picky buyer.

I guess had I planned better I could have swapped the subs for some Walmart Jensen subs, but I feel better about it this way knowing the new owner will be getting an amazing sounding system, even if they never appreciate it.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

benny z said:


> I had 3 dealerships evaluate it for trade. None of them even popped the rear cargo area and saw the subs, and none of them put it on a lift or had any service techs look at it.
> 
> None of them said anything about the sail panels either. Maybe they noticed/maybe they didn’t - if not, it’s a testament to how OEM-ish they look.
> 
> At any rate, one of the dealerships asked if there was anything aftermarket on the vehicle before they looked at it and I told them the stereo was aftermarket, but factory integrated and everything works as it’s supposed to. That was the end of the discussion.


Let's hope it doesn't come back to bite you. (I gotta maintain my status as the eternal pessimist!) 

When you traded it in, did you fill out and both sign a DMV "Notice of Transfer and Release of Liability Form" (NRL) either Online or the printed Yellow Form?

If not, I would do this right away at the dealer, DMV, or online.

I've sold & traded a lot of vehicles throughout the years, and luckily, I've only had one brief snafu that was easily resolved...

It was with a Dodge Viper that I sold many years ago. About 2 years after I sold it, the new owners lost control of the vehicle (high speed in a residential area in Florida) and the car ended up in someone's dining room. :-O

The insurance company came after me trying to hold me liable saying that I had made modifications to the vehicle. I sent the insurance company and the FL DMV a copy of my signed _Notice Of Transfer and Release of Liability_ form and never heard back from them. It depends on the laws in each state, but I believe if it made it's way to CA and something similar happened, you could be liable if you don't have that release.

Here are the basic terms of that DMV Notice of Transfer & Liability Release document:

"Sold your vehicle? Completing a Notice of Transfer and Release of Liability (NRL) lets DMV know that you are no longer responsible for parking/traffic violations or civil or criminal actions associated with the vehicle after the date of sale."

Most legit dealers make sure this is part of the required trade-in paperwork, but always make sure to double-check.


Anyway, that's incredible that you got that much for it as a trade-in, especially for a Dodge! 

Obviously they are desirable in your area. And it didn't hurt that you had some nice wheels and the upgraded stereo in it...but still! Ya definitely made out well on that deal. 

The new Durango looks slick.


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## Coolhand20th (Aug 13, 2020)

That is a very good idea. I did the same in Illinois when I had my '96 Camaro Z28. It has some engine modifications and a different rear end ratio. I did it to cover myself just in case the new owners got stupid with it as it wasn't stock mechanically at all.


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## bbfoto (Aug 28, 2005)

Coolhand20th said:


> That is a very good idea. I did the same in Illinois when I had my '96 Camaro Z28. It has some engine modifications and a different rear end ratio. I did it to cover myself just in case the new owners got stupid with it as it wasn't stock mechanically at all.


Actually, anyone who sells a vehicle without obtaining that NRL could still be held liable in certain events and circumstances, even if there were absolutely no modifications made to the vehicle.

I think that the new owner probably told their insurance company that it was me who made mods to the vehicle, and they just used that as extra "leverage" in trying to hold me responsible.

Obviously, insurance companies don't like to pay out if there's any chance to get out of it and place the blame & liability externally.

Sorry Ben, I didn't want to derail your thread! Just wanna make sure that your @ss is covered. These days, it seems like if sh!t _can_ happen, it will.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Hah, no worries. I’ve filed the transfer of liability form with the state of IL.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Toby finished up the Install in my new Durango today. This is the only thing that doesn’t look stock, and you have to pull up the cargo floor and go looking for it.

I’d show more, but there’s literally nothing else to see.

Hybrid Audio Unity U5A amp powers it all. 

Done and done.


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## LOST_llama (Feb 10, 2013)

What a tease! What is the U5A powering?


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Now you know you have to share more information then that lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

Dammit, Ben! This is the biggest tease of 2020.


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Lol, well, there’s not a whole lot more to say. Here’s what I posted to social media:


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

U69s and tweeters or did Toby work some magic on some 2” wide bands again?


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## onlyontwo (Aug 25, 2011)

Looking good, Ben! I was wondering if you were going to post any more about it. I'd like to know more about the build if you care to share.

Cheers,
-Andrew


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## LOST_llama (Feb 10, 2013)

Native macOS control application? Now I am even more intrigued!


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

I needzs moRes lol...


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## mrichard89 (Sep 29, 2016)

Ben, can we get an update please?!

matt


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Is this vehicle still around, or did it also get traded ?


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## steelwindmachine (May 15, 2017)

yeah, would love an update...


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

I sold the second Durango last August for a profit after owning it a year. Sorry guys! I haven't yet replaced it.


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## Coppertone (Oct 4, 2011)

Still have the BMW ?


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## benny z (Mar 17, 2008)

Coppertone said:


> Still have the BMW ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yep! Haven’t tried very hard to sell it, really.


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

benny z said:


> Yep! Haven’t tried very hard to sell it, really.


Is there any videos or really good walk around of the bmw ?


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## MrHarris (Feb 3, 2011)

benny z said:


> I sold the second Durango last August for a profit after owning it a year. Sorry guys! I haven't yet replaced it.


How much profit did you make?


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