# Anyone seen these?



## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Looks like we're finally getting some nice aerospace tech in speakers, maybe in car audio soon. Check out the weight at the bottom of the page.
It would help if I put the link in here. 





M9 — Magico Loudspeakers







www.magicoaudio.com




Sit down before you get to the price at the bottom.








Magico Introduces New Flagship Loudspeaker, the M9 - The Absolute Sound


Magico Introduces New Flagship Loudspeaker, the M9 -




www.theabsolutesound.com


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

The first thing you need to do is discredit anything you read in "The Absolute Sound". Pure marketing Jargon with no substance.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

magico makes one of the finest loudspeakers in the world, they are stunning


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

ckirocz28 said:


> Looks like we're finally getting some nice aerospace tech in speakers, maybe in car audio soon. Check out the weight at the bottom of the page.
> It would help if I put the link in here.
> 
> 
> ...


When you said check out the weight, I assumed they'd be super light ("aerospace tech")... 
Only $375 per pound. LOL


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

I agree, these are clearly paid to do reviews. If you look at there past 100 top products edition over the last 20 yrs you will see the same manufacturers mentioned over and over. There are plenty of better deals out there not getting mentioned.

Sure they make a great product and they should at that price!!


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

@Ge0, thoughts on cvd diamond coatings affect on stiffness and damping? from my understanding cvd diamond structures arent particularly uniform, and given that its, assumedly, an extremely thin, non-continuous film its hard to imagine it would be very beneficial in terms of stiffness. also, the high stiffness and low density of cfrp's tend to make them poor acoustic dampeners, im sure that after the honeycomb sandwiching and tension rods its perfectly suitable, in the way that if you wrap it in enough copper wood is a perfectly suitable thermal conductor. im aware this isnt your field, but its not mine either, and im interested in another intelligent, knowledgeable or not, perspective on what seems to me like a lot of "its better because expensive materials are better" regardless of usage case considerations


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Whoa! I’d like to see you post in the career’s thread and maybe the originator of the thread itself at some point.


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)




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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

publix seafood. im being fed lines....


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

You got the wrong job my friend. Hope there’s a good benefits package.


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## DavidRam (Nov 2, 2014)

Not sure what's more shocking, the price or the weight!


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

again, im being fed lines, i will be replaced, likely in the next few months. most of my posts contain input from an outside source.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Ge0 said:


> The first thing you need to do is discredit anything you read in "The Absolute Sound". Pure marketing Jargon with no substance.


I went to Magico's website to read about them, then to Absolute Sound for the price.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Grinder said:


> When you said check out the weight, I assumed they'd be super light ("aerospace tech")...
> Only $375 per pound. LOL


That's exactly what I thought! I wonder how much they'd weigh using conventional materials.


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

also the line "graphene nanotubes" catches me off, though not technically incorrect, graphene and carbon nanotubes are separate applications of single atom hexagonal lattice carbon, fun fact, carbon nanotubes may have first been used by humans as early as the 5th century BC, though not knowingly, ofc


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

I don't know what everyone is thinking, but this wasn't a post about how good these speakers sound, it's just about the tech, mainly the graphene. I'm quite positive the sound doesn't justify the price, but the use of graphene in speakers is very cool. I'd like to see some Aerogel next, maybe sandwiched between some graphene.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Isaradia said:


> also the line "graphene nanotubes" catches me off, though not technically incorrect, graphene and carbon nanotubes are separate applications of single atom hexagonal lattice carbon, fun fact, carbon nanotubes may have first been used by humans as early as the 5th century BC, though not knowingly, ofc


Got a link to an article on the early use of carbon nanotubes, or a short explanation?


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Isaradia said:


> also the line "graphene nanotubes" catches me off, though not technically incorrect, graphene and carbon nanotubes are separate applications of single atom hexagonal lattice carbon, fun fact, carbon nanotubes may have first been used by humans as early as the 5th century BC, though not knowingly, ofc


I think I read about nanotubes forming in folded steel (Damascus).


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

Carbon nanotubes in an ancient Damascus sabre - Nature


The steel of Damascus blades, which were first encountered by the Crusaders when fighting against Muslims, had features not found in European steels — a characteristic wavy banding pattern known as damask, extraordinary mechanical properties, and an exceptionally sharp cutting edge. Here we use...




www.nature.com




and to extend, the properties come from the ingot used, wootz steel, which has further applications and is thought to have originated around 5c bc


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

youre on the right track, but its important here to differentiate the different steels commonly referred to as Damascus, as the folded version is not the one of intrigue


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

given graphenes properties, im far more interested in seeing it used in amps and dsps than diaphragms


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## Barnaby (Aug 25, 2009)

Impressive to say the least. I have to wonder, just how many do they sell? That market seems so infinitesimal that it seems strange to build it at all.


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

while we're here, if anyone wants to drop half a mil becoming an investor and shareholder in a quantum dot manufacturing company capable of currently unobtainable yield rates hmu, lol


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Isaradia said:


> Carbon nanotubes in an ancient Damascus sabre - Nature
> 
> 
> The steel of Damascus blades, which were first encountered by the Crusaders when fighting against Muslims, had features not found in European steels — a characteristic wavy banding pattern known as damask, extraordinary mechanical properties, and an exceptionally sharp cutting edge. Here we use...
> ...


Yeah, I remember wootz, that's quite a memorable word.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Barnaby said:


> Impressive to say the least. I have to wonder, just how many do they sell? That market seems so infinitesimal that it seems strange to build it at all.


I'm just guessing, but the sales figures are probably in the single digits, but that profit covers operating costs for a couple of years.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Isaradia said:


> Carbon nanotubes in an ancient Damascus sabre - Nature
> 
> 
> The steel of Damascus blades, which were first encountered by the Crusaders when fighting against Muslims, had features not found in European steels — a characteristic wavy banding pattern known as damask, extraordinary mechanical properties, and an exceptionally sharp cutting edge. Here we use...
> ...


That is the exact article I read many years ago!


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

wind powered vehicle capable of driving down-wind at up to 2.8x windspeed
derailing with physics and mechanical properties, because thats how speakers, and literally everything else, work


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

ckirocz28 said:


> Yeah, I remember wootz, that's quite a memorable word.


I’m kind of amazed there isn’t an app named Wootz yet. It’s a perfect cheesy yet fun word and with the history, it’s ideal for a gamer site or something.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

SQ_Bronco said:


> I’m kind of amazed there isn’t an app named Wootz yet. It’s a perfect cheesy yet fun word and with the history, it’s ideal for a gamer site or something.


It's the plural form of "woot", "Woot! Woot!" = "Wootz".


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

my problem with graphene as a diaphragm is that it doesnt itself lend to the favored properties of a diaphragm. graphene on its own will never be a diaphragm, though a composite is an option, which is what's being pursued. my issue there is the dilution of the special properties of graphene by adding a binder. youre taking two imperfect materials and trying to make them into a perfect material, i cant help but think that theres a more efficient way. diamond? im looking for more info on e130 and cp-9800 as possible alternitives


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

cp-9800 has a flexural modulus of 300, compared to al2o3's (accuton ceramic) modulus of 400, however, cp-9800 has a density of 1.7g/cm3, compared to al2o3's density of 4, meaning cp-9800 has a specific flexural modulus approximately 76.5% higher than that of al2o3. this means a lighter, stiffer cone can be made. again, al2o3 is the ceramic material accuton uses for its ceramic cones.
id need more information to know whether cp-9800 is truly suitable for the application, but id be more interested in it than any graphene based composite. though graphene composites tend to favor high toughness and tensile strength, carbon fiber composites are known more for tensile strength and stiffness, at the expense of toughness.


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

the man behind the teleprompter is quite interested in material sciences, if you havent gathered... weve gotten him excited


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

Isaradia said:


> @Ge0, thoughts on cvd diamond coatings affect on stiffness and damping? from my understanding cvd diamond structures arent particularly uniform, and given that its, assumedly, an extremely thin, non-continuous film its hard to imagine it would be very beneficial in terms of stiffness. also, the high stiffness and low density of cfrp's tend to make them poor acoustic dampeners, im sure that after the honeycomb sandwiching and tension rods its perfectly suitable, in the way that if you wrap it in enough copper wood is a perfectly suitable thermal conductor. im aware this isnt your field, but its not mine either, and im interested in another intelligent, knowledgeable or not, perspective on what seems to me like a lot of "its better because expensive materials are better" regardless of usage case considerations


What was that? You lost my attention after the first sentence or so... I'm ADHD. Need to keep it brief .


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

Sorry to derail again, but I went to Axpona (a stereo show for audiophile gear) and heard Magico’s in about four distinctly different setups. They were some of the best sounding speakers there- and they were far from the most expensive

these took the cake for the $$$


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## Isaradia (Apr 14, 2020)

what model are those?


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

von schweikert ultra reference 11


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## selftc (Jan 22, 2007)

*WEIGHT:* WOW ! ! !
Loudspeaker: 1000 pounds each
MXO Crossover: 40 lbs.
MXO Crossover power supply: 60 lbs. 

*POWER HANDLING:* what a gap ! ! !
20 W (min) to 2000 W (max) 

*FREQUENCY RESPONSE: *is anything above 20khz really a selling point ?
18 Hz – 50 kHz


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

This was the rack powering / sourcing them:










This whole setup was $1.5m


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## Bucknastyisthe1 (Feb 12, 2021)

ckirocz28 said:


> Looks like we're finally getting some nice aerospace tech in speakers, maybe in car audio soon. Check out the weight at the bottom of the page.
> It would help if I put the link in here.
> 
> 
> ...


I thought they were going to be way more expensive than that I just ordered two sets one for the daily mansion and one set for the holiday palace! I may get one more set for the servants quarters since they probably like music too! Lmao It is unbelievable to me that some people have that amount of money while other people die from starvation, exposure, lack of clean water, etc


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Bucknastyisthe1 said:


> I thought they were going to be way more expensive than that I just ordered two sets one for the daily mansion and one set for the holiday palace! I may get one more set for the servants quarters since they probably like music too! Lmao It is unbelievable to me that some people have that amount of money while other people die from starvation, exposure, lack of clean water, etc


Hi!! Welcome to life, it’s a crazy place.

Props for looking out for the servants though, it was a dead give away you can’t afford 4 sets of these.


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## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

As an aside, these people would also try to sell you a $15K set of 1M speaker cables, soooo...


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Ainuke said:


> As an aside, these people would also try to sell you a $15K set of 1M speaker cables, soooo...


what speaker and interconnect would you recommend on a ultra high end home system?


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

I agree with Porsche on this one, if you’ve already spent that much whats another 100k on cables to get the most out of it.


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## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

Porsche said:


> what speaker and interconnect would you recommend on a ultra high end home system?


Lamp cord


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Ainuke said:


> Lamp cord


lol 22g?


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## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

Honestly, for $750K, I’d have Wynton Marsalis come play live for me.


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## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

clange2485 said:


> lol 22g?


that’s the spirit. 4 channels out of a single length of CAT6


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## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

And 22g is fine, but you _have_ to use the little trestles to keep the wire off the floor.


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Ainuke said:


> that’s the spirit. 4 channels out of a single length of CAT6


Now you’re making sense, the sad part is I’ve come across this before with cat5 and it was probably close to a 175’ run for a pair of outdoor speakers. They each got a 4 conductors out of the 8. Somehow they made noise, not good noise but it was there.


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Ainuke said:


> And 22g is fine, but you _have_ to use the little trestles to keep the wire off the floor.


You'll need one of these too: Ground Boxes | Entreq


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

]


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Ainuke said:


> Lamp cord


no u wouldn't


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## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

Grinder said:


> You'll need one of these too: Ground Boxes | Entreq


I read that, laughing along, thinking it was a satire page.

And what happens when the maid dumps out your crate of dirt?


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## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

Porsche said:


> no u wouldn't


seriously though, you’re right.
I run 12ga OFC plenum wire from Parts Express for everything, home and car. 14ga would do it without issue, I’m sure, but I like to brag about how expensive the 12ga is. The diminishing returns after that are precipitous. And I would happily put it up against _any_ boutique speaker wire, regardless of cost. Because electrons don’t care.


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

Ainuke said:


> I read that, laughing along, thinking it was a satire page.
> 
> And what happens when the maid dumps out your crate of dirt?


Hilarious!

_For the placebophile who has everything._ LOL

*"Installing and auditioning the Entreq grounding products, like many tweaks will require patience and experimentation. Try to refrain from snap judgements as it takes a little time for changes in their cables and the box itself to settle in. For example, if you are trying the Copper vs. Silver Eartha cables, allow the cables to settle in overnight before making serious evaluations."*

I remembered that silly box of dirt from several posts back in 2018, in the "stupidest thing anyone has said to you audio-wise" thread: *Stupidest thing anyone has said to you (audio wise)*
Scroll down to post #3,038 and beyond...


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## RyuTsuiSen (Jan 26, 2018)

Grinder said:


> Hilarious!
> 
> _For the placebophile who has everything._ LOL
> 
> ...


Uuuuuuuuugh, I forgot how good that thread was. 

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

Grinder said:


> Hilarious!
> 
> _For the placebophile who has everything._ LOL
> 
> ...


well, thanks for _that_ rabbit hole, bro.

I’m still stuck on this: Box of dirt “review.” I swear, Gwinneth Paltrow should be selling it on Goop. Quick question: did the reviewer realize just how much sh!t his system sucked _before_ he added the box of magic dirt? Did he get pissed at the equipment that cost him “the price of a luxury sports car” that wasn’t fully orgasmic enough without said dirt?
I’m at a loss...


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Ainuke said:


> And 22g is fine, but you _have_ to use the little trestles to keep the wire off the floor.


So the signal doesn't get dirty.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Grinder said:


> Hilarious!
> 
> _For the placebophile who has everything._ LOL
> 
> ...


But doesn't it make the signal dirty sounding?


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## bertholomey (Dec 27, 2007)

It is an interesting question about the cost and how many they sell a year......this may be flame-worthy, but I’ve often responded to folks that if LeBron, JayZ, or Justin Timberlake wanted a new system.....’the best’ or ‘the most expensive’, this would be a drop in the bucket.....if making $80M a year, what is $1M on speakers / cables. 

Some ‘normal-ish’ consumers have griped a bit in the past about Magico - I believe they are still mostly made in San Francisco (I believe one piece of the manufacturing is in a close by State because they couldn’t do that prices in California because of the environmental laws). The owner doesn’t want to move manufacturing to off-shore......at least that is what I was told a couple years ago. 

But these companies will always push the upper limit because there is a consumer out there for it. My wife told me she was told today that a deal fell through on a house on Boca Grande island Florida that was selling for $23M.....the buyer want to buy the 2 acre lot and tear down the mansion that was already there and build a ‘better’ one - it fell through because of the zoning restrictions on the type of house that could be built in that area. Crazy! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Ainuke said:


> seriously though, you’re right.
> I run 12ga OFC plenum wire from Parts Express for everything, home and car. 14ga would do it without issue, I’m sure, but I like to brag about how expensive the 12ga is. The diminishing returns after that are precipitous. And I would happily put it up against _any_ boutique speaker wire, regardless of cost. Because electrons don’t care.


sounds like you and several others have it figured out, reality is you don have a clue when it comes to the upper highend


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Porsche said:


> sounds like you and several others have it figured out, reality is you don have a clue when it comes to the upper highend


Those ridiculously high prices only make it sound better when you're telling other people how much you spent on it, a.k.a. bragging rights.
And on that note, here's a good place to throw away some more of your money.








Not for sale anymore


Hey guys.. up for sale is one of my favorite tweeter/midbass.. selling only because going with a bigger midbass.. might still keep it if no entertaining offers. Tweeters come with orignal polished aluminum grills, midbass comes with orignal black anodized grills, plus after market polished...




www.diymobileaudio.com


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

Nevermind


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

ckirocz28 said:


> Those ridiculously high prices only make it sound better when you're telling other people how much you spent on it, a.k.a. bragging rights.
> And on that note, here's a good place to throw away some more of your money.
> 
> 
> ...


like i said, you an many others have zero clue. an now you are saying ZR is overpriced, etc because they are expensive


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

You know some folks think that cars generally come with a sufficient radio and speakers for all listening applications. Even some are amazing Bose systems that are “high end”
Those folks think we (generally speaking) are nuts for spending time and $$ upgrading what is already there and sufficient. Hard to believe. But true. 
I guess the moral here for the last couple of pages is - you don’t know what you don’t know.


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## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

Porsche said:


> sounds like you and several others have it figured out, reality is you don have a clue when it comes to the upper highend


what is it that I don’t have a clue about? That people with ungodly amounts of money will spend it on ridiculous things? That they make purchases based on status over substance?
No, I get that.

But 99% of the marketing that goes into it is BS.
I have no doubt that the hand-crafted speakers that started this thread sound astonishingly good; at $750K, I would demand nothing less. Do they sound 2500% better than a set of $15,000 Maggies? No F-ing way. 
These prices are more about psychology than reality.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Ainuke said:


> what is it that I don’t have a clue about? That people with ungodly amounts of money will spend it on ridiculous things? That they make purchases based on status over substance?
> No, I get that.
> 
> But 99% of the marketing that goes into it is BS.
> ...


who are you to say what something is worth, you have no clue what went into designing, building, engineering a $750k speaker, ZERO clue. also, this is America, they can sell them for whatever they want if someone is will to buy them. 

if $15k maggies is your reference than that says alot

an not everyone buys something because of "status", folks that have zero clue will just to say they have them but to clump everyone with money into that category is absurd.


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

Before we group very intelligent wealthy people with idiots we may want to do some more research. A good place to start would be Dave Wilson’s(Wilson Audio) findings on the time domain and general studies over the 40 years he dedicated to amazing sound reproduction. To Porsche’s point I’ve toured the Wilson facility. A rough guess on tooling and measuring equipment value would easily hit the $50 million mark. They also employ some of the brightest minds in the acoustic engineering world and use only the finest materials. Similar to Magico and the 50 other manufactures making a similar level of products.

Last month I spent roughly 20% of my monthly income on HAT speakers. 8”, 6.5, 3.5,tweeter, and couple of Mosconi amps. Some may call me insane others would say that’s conservative. Granted I have no home or auto payments. To me this is a minor investment that I will enjoy for a couple years. Now when someone who can afford a high end system spends the same portion of their monthly income (20% of $200-300K=$40-60K) they are now “insane, stupid, or trying to buy status? God forbid they save for 3-6 months and drop a couple hundred thousand. From my experience these humans enjoy the finer things, know they want the best, and have long term relationships with people they trust to advise or make decisions on their behalf.(in the business world I think these people are referred to as executives) I happen to be one of these people. The company I work for ONLY gets business from referrals so duping, gouging, or under delivering has never been an option.

We could have the same conversations about wine, boats, jets, car racing, horses, etc.
Because someone makes a decision you don’t agree with doesn’t mean that decision is incorrect.
I apologize for my rant. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

Ainuke said:


> what is it that I don’t have a clue about? That people with ungodly amounts of money will spend it on ridiculous things? That they make purchases based on status over substance?
> No, I get that.
> 
> But 99% of the marketing that goes into it is BS.
> ...


Here’s a link to one of Wilson Audios newer speakers the XVX. Not sure on pricing but easily $200K. Please point out the Bull ****(untrueIf or nonsense). When you do I will have it changed before the end of business today. But be careful because the people who wrote this value honesty and integrity over personal perceptions. 





__





Wilson Audio | Chronosonic XVX






www.wilsonaudio.com





Until you find the time to do this try to comment on things you know about. If we wanted uneducated or inexperienced opinions we’d be on Facebook right now.


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

I would be happy with these at $40k










this room (more importantly the brand) is what got me to spend 30% of my monthly income on a streamer


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

It’s interesting that none of these high priced companies appear to publish any real specs or measurements of their equipment.

i would love to see the material properties for the “unbeatable” Wilson “X-material” v3, which presumably replaced the unbeatable “X-material v2” and v1...


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

SQ_Bronco said:


> It’s interesting that none of these high priced companies appear to publish any real specs or measurements of their equipment.
> 
> i would love to see the material properties for the “unbeatable” Wilson “X-material” v3, which presumably replaced the unbeatable “X-material v2” and v1...


it never stops, why should for critics like you that will never buy them, in your mind you can probably build something better


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

What never stops? And what did I say that was critical? I just asked for some measurements.

I work for a company that builds composite airplanes; if this dude or his late father really did invent an “unbeatable” composite material (which is an extremely bold claim, but only one of dozens on the web site) I would love to be able to license it or buy it or at least assess its utility.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Porsche said:


> like i said, you an many others have zero clue. an now you are saying ZR is overpriced, etc because they are expensive


The minor improvement doesn't justify the massive expense.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

CCole said:


> Here’s a link to one of Wilson Audios newer speakers the XVX. Not sure on pricing but easily $200K. Please point out the Bull ****(untrueIf or nonsense). When you do I will have it changed before the end of business today. But be careful because the people who wrote this value honesty and integrity over personal perceptions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, did someone mention Wilson Audio?


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

From the “our technology” portion of the ZR website, presented without comment to avoid the appearance of criticism:



> The base of the magnetic motor is an already magnetized ferrite or neodymium magnet. The iron parts are glued to the magnet. Because the magnet is already magnetized, it pulls iron parts and glue to itself, so almost perfect contact could be attained. In this way, the magnetic field in "air gap" is the most powerful.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

SQ_Bronco said:


> From the “our technology” portion of the ZR website, presented without comment to avoid the appearance of criticism:


I think they're saying the magnetism "clamps" the parts while the glue dries. Did they need to say that? No. Is it some high-priced unique technology? Hell no.


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

It’s funny. Measurements are important for the understanding of compatibility in audio IMO. The problem is that some (ASR for ex) use it for the be all end all review of something. Seems to me he (Amir) and others have been trained in that regard by some influencers in the industry. 
Ears have always been my best judge on audio. Not measurements, but again, measurements let us align gear to be compatible with each other. IMO of course.

if you ever listened to a pair of Alexandria’s, you would not ask about specs and measurements. You would just want to sit there and listen to everything you are familiar with to hear it for the very first time.


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

CCole said:


> Here’s a link to one of Wilson Audios newer speakers the XVX. Not sure on pricing but easily $200K. Please point out the Bull ****(untrueIf or nonsense). When you do I will have it changed before the end of business today. But be careful because the people who wrote this value honesty and integrity over personal perceptions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





https://m.facebook.com/WilsonAudio/


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

CCole said:


> Before we group very intelligent wealthy people with idiots we may want to do some more research. A good place to start would be Dave Wilson’s(Wilson Audio) findings on the time domain and general studies over the 40 years he dedicated to amazing sound reproduction. To Porsche’s point I’ve toured the Wilson facility. A rough guess on tooling and measuring equipment value would easily hit the $50 million mark. They also employ some of the brightest minds in the acoustic engineering world and use only the finest materials. Similar to Magico and the 50 other manufactures making a similar level of products.
> 
> Last month I spent roughly 20% of my monthly income on HAT speakers. 8”, 6.5, 3.5,tweeter, and couple of Mosconi amps. Some may call me insane others would say that’s conservative. Granted I have no home or auto payments. To me this is a minor investment that I will enjoy for a couple years. Now when someone who can afford a high end system spends the same portion of their monthly income (20% of $200-300K=$40-60K) they are now “insane, stupid, or trying to buy status? God forbid they save for 3-6 months and drop a couple hundred thousand. From my experience these humans enjoy the finer things, know they want the best, and have long term relationships with people they trust to advise or make decisions on their behalf.(in the business world I think these people are referred to as executives) I happen to be one of these people. The company I work for ONLY gets business from referrals so duping, gouging, or under delivering has never been an option.
> 
> ...


Just so you know, there are stupid people that are rich and poor people who are smart. Dollars in the bank account DO NOT equate to IQ points.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

ckirocz28 said:


> The minor improvement doesn't justify the massive expense.


to you, maybe not since you cant afford them, to others it does. point is who are you to say what something is worth cause at the end of the day you have NO clue what it cost to make it


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

ckirocz28 said:


> Just so you know, there are stupid people that are rich and poor people who are smart. Dollars in the bank account DO NOT equate to IQ points.


very true, you keep proving that over an over. also, no one said it did, just guys like you like to criticize folks that can afford what you cant


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Porsche said:


> very true, you keep proving that over an over. also, no one said it did, just guys like you like to criticize folks that can afford what you cant


Listen bud, this thread wasn't meant to be about bashing overly expensive stuff, but it went that way, admittedly with my help. But you seem to like to criticize people rather than stuff, so here we go. IF I could afford those speakers, I wouldn't buy them, instead, I would buy three reasonably nice houses and three reasonably nice cars and give said items to three people/families in need. You would buy those speakers and brag about it to anyone who would listen, you've proven that over and over in various places around this forum. So who's the better person, you or I?


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Porsche said:


> very true, you keep proving that over an over. also, no one said it did, just guys like you like to criticize folks that can afford what you cant


And most condescending remark of the day award goes to you! You actually out did your usual level of douchery!!! We’re truly graced with your very presence! Now all at once let us salute you🖕Now run along spurt!


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

ckirocz28 said:


> Listen bud, this thread wasn't meant to be about bashing overly expensive stuff, but it went that way, admittedly with my help. But you seem to like to criticize people rather than stuff, so here we go. IF I could afford those speakers, I wouldn't buy them, instead, I would buy three reasonably nice houses and three reasonably nice cars and give said items to three people/families in need. You would buy those speakers and brag about it to anyone who would listen, you've proven that over and over in various places around this forum. So who's the better person, you or I?


you are full of crap, 1st, where have i ever bragged on this forum, 2nd i criticize people, BS, i call BS on guys like you that bash on things you cant afford and bash on folks that can, 3rd, don't tell me about giving to folks that need cause you have NO f'n clue what you are talking about, its pricks like you that judge guys because you think they are all about themselves but you are the good guy, you think you are a better person, what ever makes you sleep better


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

DaveG said:


> And most condescending remark of the day award goes to you! You actually out did your usual level of douchery!!! We’re truly graced with your very presence! Now all at once let us salute you🖕Now run along spurt!


you are welcome dave, call me what you want but atleast I'm truthful and do not live in a fantasy world like most of you


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Porsche said:


> you are welcome dave, call me what you want but atleast I'm truthful and do not live in a fantasy world like most of you


Seriously, why do you come here and rub elbows with people like most of us? What’s wrong? No matter the success you just can’t shake the trailer trash in you? And again seriously… why don’t you just run along spurt?


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

Sorry for my part on division here. Don’t like to see it get out of hand. Withdrawing from this back and forth


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

TrashPanda said:


> Sorry for my part on division here. Don’t like to see it get out of hand. Withdrawing from this back and forth


You're good, that's mostly me and Porsche, and I can't blame you.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Porsche said:


> just guys like you like to criticize folks that can afford what you cant


I notice a lot of that on here. 


Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> I notice a lot of that on here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Honestly, I’ve been hanging around the forums for many years now, and it’s great to be a part of a community that values taking off-the-shelf components from low to moderate price ranges and getting the most out of them. And aside from the occasional spat of personality, people are largely supportive.
But this is the first time I’ve witnessed someone sh!tting on someone else’s gear _because_ it was cheaper than their preference or what they could afford.
You’re certainly free in this country to be as wealthy as you can get, and enjoy the fruits of your labor (I’ll even spot you the benefit of the doubt that you actually worked hard for it), and power to you.
But you start rubbing peoples face in it, _especially_ when we’re talking about a pair of speakers that costs more than an _entire_ family’s college education, or a house, or _several_ Mercedes’, you’re going to get push back.
It warrants the question of whether they’re this big a tool in person or if it’s just a forum persona they’re trying to cultivate.


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## TrashPanda (May 21, 2021)

I sure hope my posts on those V S speakers was not taken as a snub on cheap gear. If anyone knows the value of squeezing as much as possible out of as little as possible it is I.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Ainuke said:


> Honestly, I’ve been hanging around the forums for many years now, and it’s great to be a part of a community that values taking off-the-shelf components from low to moderate price ranges and getting the most out of them. And aside from the occasional spat of personality, people are largely supportive.
> But this is the first time I’ve witnessed someone sh!tting on someone else’s gear _because_ it was cheaper than their preference or what they could afford.
> You’re certainly free in this country to be as wealthy as you can get, and enjoy the fruits of your labor (I’ll even spot you the benefit of the doubt that you actually worked hard for it), and power to you.
> But you start rubbing peoples face in it, _especially_ when we’re talking about a pair of speakers that costs more than an _entire_ family’s college education, or a house, or _several_ Mercedes’, you’re going to get push back.
> It warrants the question of whether they’re this big a tool in person or if it’s just a forum persona they’re trying to cultivate.


My comment has nothing to do with rubbing anything in anyone's face, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. I'm just saying I notice more and more that people get bitter towards higher priced stuff. It sucks that I have to deal with an average of 3 or so messages asking "why someone would do this, or use that, etc.. what a waste of money" on here every time I post a build. And of course, it's always the guys that, to be frank, have no business even commenting on it.

Edit: I also see the exact opposite. I'll post a more basic system and I'll get messages and comments like "why not custom pillars? Why just a regular carpeted box? Why not infinite baffle? Why didn't you do a cool design, etc".. that **** costs money and who are we to try to dictate how others spend it.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## Ainuke (Aug 27, 2014)

SkizeR said:


> My comment has nothing to do with rubbing anything in anyone's face, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. I'm just saying I notice more and more that people get bitter towards higher priced stuff. It sucks that I have to deal with an average of 3 or so messages asking "why someone would do this, or use that, etc.. what a waste of money" on here every time I post a build. And of course, it's always the guys that, to be frank, have no business even commenting on it.
> 
> Edit: I also see the exact opposite. I'll post a more basic system and I'll get messages and comments like "why not custom pillars? Why just a regular carpeted box? Why not infinite baffle? Why didn't you do a cool design, etc".. that **** costs money and who are we to try to dictate how others spend it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Sorry, my beef isn’t with you. My use of the word “you” was meant as the collective, not you (SkizR) specifically. I’m sorry it came across that way. I have a lot of respect for your builds and your contribution on this forum.


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

Ainuke said:


> Sorry, my beef isn’t with you. My use of the word “you” was meant as the collective, not you (SkizR) specifically. I’m sorry it came across that way. I have a lot of respect for your builds and your contribution on this forum.


give me a break, i could careless what you or anyone else makes for a living or spends the income on, its none of my business, i damn sure do not look down on people. my issue is really simple which nick touched on and i said early on on this topic, its no ones business how someone spends there money, an for someone to say this or that is overpriced is absurd, you guys have zero idea what it takes to build products like whats on display on this topic, if that speaker was $5000 a pair all of you would be drooling and saying its the greatest thing since sliced bread, however, when it say $750k now its over priced and folks are fools to buying it. that where the comment of mine about if you could afford you probably wouldn't say the BS that most of you say, but for the RECORD i do not look down on any of you on this forum, i may not like you but at the end of the day i wish you all the best, i bet my paycheck many of you cant say the same because you dislike me which is fine and some of you always bring up money, etc when it comes to me. a lot of hypocrites but all is good


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

Fellas thought I’d share one of the best features on diyma…


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## clange2485 (Dec 10, 2020)

Any chance you want to revisit the thread YOU started about careers? I would also be happy to sell a $750k pair of speakers and rake in the money. I could honestly care less what people spend there money on and agree if you can afford to buy these that doesn’t automatically make you a dumbA$$ at the same time I’ve worked for people who can afford these and they aren’t always the brightest bulb either. Either way this is an unobtainable object for the working class and we will never relate to people who can buy speakers that cost more then our house or even multiple house’s. You still come across as an A$$hole more and more with every post and that’s fine but don’t act like you’re not talking down to us at the same time(we’s ain’t stupid) Now run along Spurt! Don’t you have another car to buy to add to your signature,which includes nothing audio related.


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## jtrosky (Jul 19, 2019)

Porsche said:


> give me a break, i could careless what you or anyone else makes for a living or spends the income on, its none of my business, i damn sure do not look down on people. my issue is really simple which nick touched on and i said early on on this topic, its no ones business how someone spends there money, an for someone to say this or that is overpriced is absurd, you guys have zero idea what it takes to build products like whats on display on this topic, if that speaker was $5000 a pair all of you would be drooling and saying its the greatest thing since sliced bread, however, when it say $750k now its over priced and folks are fools to buying it. that where the comment of mine about if you could afford you probably wouldn't say the BS that most of you say, but for the RECORD i do not look down on any of you on this forum, i may not like you but at the end of the day i wish you all the best, i bet my paycheck many of you cant say the same because you dislike me which is fine and some of you always bring up money, etc when it comes to me. a lot of hypocrites but all is good


Why in the world is it "wrong" for someone to express their opinion that something is overpriced?? To many (most), they _are_ overpriced! It doesn't matter what it takes to build products like that - to the vast majority, they are absolutely overpriced and it _would_ be foolish for most to spend that kind of money on a pair of speakers. 

Just like you are of the opinion that they are worth the cost, many other are of the opinion that they are overpriced. 

You seem to think that your opinion is the only one that matters - and that everyone else "has no clue what they are talking about" because their opinion is different than yours.

As soon as you you make a post about a topic on public forum, people are free to express their opinions. If you can't handle others opinions, then maybe you shouldn't post on a public forum.

This seems to happen repeatedly with your posts. You feel that anyone that disagrees with you is "clueless". You also repeatedly posts things like "that is what I'd expect from the people here" repeatedly. THAT is what people are talking about when they say that you look down on people. 

And yes, of course people would be happier if they were $5k instead $750k... There is such a thing as "perceived value". For most people, no pair of speakers is worth $750k. Even $5k is way more than most people would pay for a pair of speakers!!


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## Porsche (Jun 29, 2008)

clange2485 said:


> Any chance you want to revisit the thread YOU started about careers? I would also be happy to sell a $750k pair of speakers and rake in the money. I could honestly care less what people spend there money on and agree if you can afford to buy these that doesn’t automatically make you a dumbA$$ at the same time I’ve worked for people who can afford these and they aren’t always the brightest bulb either. Either way this is an unobtainable object for the working class and we will never relate to people who can buy speakers that cost more then our house or even multiple house’s. You still come across as an A$$hole more and more with every post and that’s fine but don’t act like you’re not talking down to us at the same time(we’s ain’t stupid) Now run along Spurt! Don’t you have another car to buy to add to your signature,which includes nothing audio related.


i rest my case. by the way i did look at "careers" everything was fine until someone was a smart a55 thinking they corrected me, than of course you jumped in. lets agree to disagree, later


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

jtrosky said:


> Why in the world is it "wrong" for someone to express their opinion that something is overpriced?? To many (most), they _are_ overpriced! It doesn't matter what it takes to build products like that - to the vast majority, they are absolutely overpriced and it _would_ be foolish for most to spend that kind of money on a pair of speakers.
> 
> Just like you are of the opinion that they are worth the cost, many other are of the opinion that they are overpriced.
> 
> ...


This is a do-it-yourself audio forum, it's only logical to think it would be populated with "cheaper" personality types.


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## Grinder (Dec 18, 2016)

_As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand._


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## DaveG (Jul 24, 2019)

jtrosky said:


> Why in the world is it "wrong" for someone to express their opinion that something is overpriced?? To many (most), they _are_ overpriced! It doesn't matter what it takes to build products like that - to the vast majority, they are absolutely overpriced and it _would_ be foolish for most to spend that kind of money on a pair of speakers.
> 
> Just like you are of the opinion that they are worth the cost, many other are of the opinion that they are overpriced.
> 
> ...


Well said JT! Well said! 👏👏👏


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

ckirocz28 said:


> This is a do-it-yourself audio forum, it's only logical to think it would be populated with "cheaper" personality types.


Why pay someone else to hose up an install and tuning, when I can hose it up myself?


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## ckirocz28 (Nov 29, 2017)

Holmz said:


> Why pay someone else to hose up an install and tuning, when I can hose it up myself?


Exactly right!


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

For me it’s not so much about being “cheap”, but rather about “making” something rather than “buying” something. I get much more enjoyment and take more pride in a 90% solution that I built, as opposed to a possibly slightly better solution that I paid someone else to make. If you make something, it’s yours, warts and all. If you buy it, it’s a nice piece of furniture.


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## CCole (Sep 9, 2020)

SQ_Bronco said:


> It’s interesting that none of these high priced companies appear to publish any real specs or measurements of their equipment.
> 
> i would love to see the material properties for the “unbeatable” Wilson “X-material” v3, which presumably replaced the unbeatable “X-material v2” and v1...


Companies like this will invite you to the anechoic chamber and show you these numbers in person. If that’s what it takes to close the sale. The higher end offerings also include the owner coming to your home and setting the speakers up to ensure they sound as intended.

I love when people say “I would never by X, this is what I’d do with the money”. The problem with this statement is most people who afford this type of luxury already own everything else you would list.




ckirocz28 said:


> Just so you know, there are stupid people that are rich and poor people who are smart. Dollars in the bank account DO NOT equate to IQ points.


Thanks for the clarification caption obvious


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