# linear power & lanzar lxr amps



## stefanbatory (Aug 18, 2009)

Hi 
I have an opportunity to buy quite cheap few amps there are linear power 6521q and lanzar lxr 90. Are they good?
Ps. there is also something called cobel electronics ce 90.32, I never even heard about it.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

The LP 652iq is good. Not sure the Lanzar is worth even buying.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

I wouldn't waste my money on the LP but I believe the Lanzar lxr amps were built by PPI so it's probably pretty decent.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> I wouldn't waste my money on the LP but I believe the Lanzar lxr amps were built by PPI so it's probably pretty decent.


First of all, how can you make such a claim without the guy even listing a price? 

Second, no money spent on an LP is a waste. 

So much for your biased opinion and continued pursuit to bash LP.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

gotsqtoo? said:


> First of all, how can you make such a claim without the guy even listing a price?
> 
> Second, no money spent on an LP is a waste.
> 
> So much for your biased opinion and continued pursuit to bash LP.


The price doesn't make any difference. Even if it was only $5 it would be a waste of money.

How is my opinion that LP's are junk and more biased than your opinion that they're good?


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> The price doesn't make any difference. Even if it was only $5 it would be a waste of money.
> 
> How is my opinion that LP's are junk and more biased than your opinion that they're good?


Because you are THE minority in this discussion. If they are junk, they wouldnd't sell for the prices they do. The concensus agrees with me. There is obviously a reason for it. Your determination to drive people away from LP shows your bitterness.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

gotsqtoo? said:


> Because you are THE minority in this discussion. If they are junk, they wouldnd't sell for the prices they do. The concensus agrees with me. There is obviously a reason for it. Your determination to drive people away from LP shows your bitterness.


Most people used to think the world was flat too but that doesn't mean that just because they were in the majority that they were right. People pay high prices for them because they don't know any better. How am I bitter? Is it because I made money on all of the LP's I had that I sold? There is really no reason for me to drive people away from LP, if anything I should be pushing people to buy LP so they don't go after other amps that I like.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't get getting a boner on an amp that's just like every other old school nostalgia filled product: good for it's time but it's value is overinflated because of X and X fact less opinions.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> Most people used to think the world was flat too but that doesn't mean that just because they were in the majority that they were right. People pay high prices for them because they don't know any better. How am I bitter? Is it because I made money on all of the LP's I had that I sold? There is really no reason for me to drive people away from LP, if anything I should be pushing people to buy LP so they don't go after other amps that I like.


There you go ASSuming that everyone who buy Linear Power haven't done comparisons to any other amps to justify their cost. For some reason you think it's a feasable ASSumption to think people who don't know any better would pay upwards of triple for a Linear Power amp over a similar amp of the same rated power for no reason whatsoever....according to you they just don't know any better so they spend more. Makes a whole lot of sense doesn't it.

Me for instance owns more audio equipment on this very day that you will own total in your life. No need for a pissing match to prove this as I am very confident the 100+ amps I have right now fit the bill. That being said, I have owned and still own just about every single reputable amp made and I choose to run Linear Power. That, in itself, speaks volumes.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

gotsqtoo? said:


> There you go ASSuming that everyone who buy Linear Power haven't done comparisons to any other amps to justify their cost. For some reason you think it's a feasable ASSumption to think people who don't know any better would pay upwards of triple for a Linear Power amp over a similar amp of the same rated power for no reason whatsoever....according to you they just don't know any better so they spend more. Makes a whole lot of sense doesn't it.
> 
> Me for instance owns more audio equipment on this very day that you will own total in your life. No need for a pissing match to prove this as I am very confident the 100+ amps I have right now fit the bill. That being said, I have owned and still own just about every single reputable amp made and I choose to run Linear Power. That, in itself, speaks volumes.


Yes, I do think it's feasible to assume they don't know any better when a LP amp can't even make rated power at 14.5v with only one channel driven. Of course if you had ever benched one like I have you'd already know this. So no, paying triple for an amp that doesn't make rated power doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

There you go ASSuming you know anything about me. You're right, the few hundred amps that have passed through my hands in the past few years doesn't compare to the whopping 100+ amps you currently claim to have. We can sit here and compare equipment lists to see whose e-dick is bigger but I don't see any point since you've already proven that having a lot of equipment doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> Yes, I do think it's feasible to assume they don't know any better when a LP amp can't even make rated power at 14.5v with only one channel driven. Of course if you had ever benched one like I have you'd already know this. So no, paying triple for an amp that doesn't make rated power doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
> 
> There you go ASSuming you know anything about me. You're right, the few hundred amps that have passed through my hands in the past few years doesn't compare to the whopping 100+ amps you currently claim to have. We can sit here and compare equipment lists to see whose e-dick is bigger but I don't see any point since you've already proven that having a lot of equipment doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.


Having alot of equipment means I speak from my own personal comparisons. Something 90% of the people on this very forum cannot afford to do. That is what makes my opinion a little more valid. I have done the research and paid the money for that research in buying and spending my time testing these amps. 

The funny thing, is still to this day all of you LP haters cannot even post a scope measuring an LP amp with a true non inductive resistor load at 4 ohms showing it not doing rated power. I have a scope...I have tested all my amps CORRECTLY....and every one goes above the LP ratings. 

Lets see some measurements...I didn't think so. Keep talking. All the people that are bandwagon jumpers may follow you. However, the people that are really serious about their music will stick with LP.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

gotsqtoo? said:


> Having alot of equipment means I speak from my own personal comparisons. Something 90% of the people on this very forum cannot afford to do. That is what makes my opinion a little more valid. I have done the research and paid the money for that research in buying and spending my time testing these amps.
> 
> The funny thing, is still to this day all of you LP haters cannot even post a scope measuring an LP amp with a true non inductive resistor load at 4 ohms showing it not doing rated power. I have a scope...I have tested all my amps CORRECTLY....and every one goes above the LP ratings.
> 
> Lets see some measurements...I didn't think so. Keep talking. All the people that are bandwagon jumpers may follow you. However, the people that are really serious about their music will stick with LP.


There are lots of people here who have owned and compared a lot more equipment that you or I could ever imagine. Trust me, you're opinion is not any more valid than anyone else's.

So where are the pics of you're scope measuring an LP at over rated power? How about some distortion measurements as well? Surely you can measure distortion as well since you're tests are "correct".

Hey looky here, I have a scope too.



















And hey, there's a distortion analyzer next to it.










So what was it you were saying about all of us LP haters not being able to take measurements?


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> So what was it you were saying about all of us LP haters not being able to take measurements?


 What was I saying? You heard me correctly and you just reinforced my point. Now lets see your readouts measuring any LP amp...you pick. Let's see the load, the signal being passed and your readout. Showing me a few waveforms from who knows what isn't proving anything in regards to LP. Way to NOT prove anything. Real smart guys around here..


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

gotsqtoo? said:


> What was I saying? You heard me correctly and you just reinforced my point. Now lets see your readouts measuring any LP amp...you pick. Let's see the load, the signal being passed and your readout. Showing me a few waveforms from who knows what isn't proving anything in regards to LP. Way to NOT prove anything. Real smart guys around here..


When I take measurements I see no reason to waste my time taking pictures of all the equipment in action. I take the measurements for myself. You can believe what I say or not, I really couldn't care less if you do or don't. But since you're so adamant about these measurements where are the pics of your setup testing an LP and making more than rated power? You keep asking for proof from me while providing none of your own.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> When I take measurements I see no reason to waste my time taking pictures of all the equipment in action. I take the measurements for myself. You can believe what I say or not, I really couldn't care less if you do or don't. But since you're so adamant about these measurements where are the pics of your setup testing an LP and making more than rated power? You keep asking for proof from me while providing none of your own.


Here is the deal. I have a newly modded 2.2HV on it's way to my house. I will measure it's output and snap quite a few pics and then post them. The deal is you shut your mouth about LP. Otherwise, there is no sense in me posting the pictures and proof. I have a feeling you are one of those people that talks themselves into things so the proof will stare you in the face and you will still find a way to refute it.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

gotsqtoo? said:


> Here is the deal. I have a newly modded 2.2HV on it's way to my house. I will measure it's output and snap quite a few pics and then post them. The deal is you shut your mouth about LP. Otherwise, there is no sense in me posting the pictures and proof. I have a feeling you are one of those people that talks themselves into things so the proof will stare you in the face and you will still find a way to refute it.


How about an unmodded amp? Or do they only make rated power after they've been modified? So if I post pics showing an LP not making rated power you'll shut your mouth? That's almost enough reason to go buy one of my LP's back from the guy I sold them to.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

See what I mean. Unmodded...modded. What is the difference? Obviously I was going to take that into account. Already nit picking before I post anything...once again proving my point of your premature ejaculation without even showing your the porno. Just like your accusations of Linear Power not producing rated power without any proof of your own. You and that mustang guy are probably boyfriends who hate on LP but never show any proof of your accusations.

The amp will be an unmodded amp then...at your request. It will be within the next week or so. I am very busy.


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## TREETOP (Feb 11, 2009)

gotsqtoo? said:


> The amp will be an unmodded amp then...at your request. It will be within the next week or so. I am very busy beating my chest, flexing, dryhumping 25 year old technology, and acting like an arrogant self-righteous douchebag on a discussion forum.


Fixed.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

Well yeah, it does make a huge difference whether it's modded or not if we're talking about it making rated power. Lets also not forget that the hv series are cheater amps with the 2.2 rated at 12.5w/[email protected] so lets stick with testing one of the non hv lp's.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> Well yeah, it does make a huge difference whether it's modded or not if we're talking about it making rated power. Lets also not forget that the hv series are cheater amps with the 2.2 rated at 12.5w/[email protected] so lets stick with testing one of the non hv lp's.


The funny thing is...which rational people will understand and notice. You are the one who is stating a reputable manufacturer over rated their amps. Yet, I am the one being forced to provide proof that the manufacturer specs are correct. I find this hilarious as it really shows that people will always make accusations and when it's time to put up...they can't. Shouldn't the proof be coming from you? Aren't you the one claiming the manufacturer lied. How do you know? Where is that proof? This conversation wouldn't even be had if it weren't for your accusations against LP.

I can go all over the internet and start stating Zapco doesn't put out rated power....but no one gives a **** until I show proof. That is the boat you are in.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

You're right because manufacturers never lie. I'm sure that "4000w" Pyle you got at the flea market really does put out 4000w because they are a manufacturer so they never lie.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> You're right because manufacturers never lie. I'm sure that "4000w" Pyle you got at the flea market really does put out 4000w because they are a manufacturer so they never lie.


Now lets be unrealistic...it sure makes your point alot stronger. Pyle rates max...and at 14.4. Boy, you really think you are going to win this arguement without proof don't you. 

Let's just state the facts and be done with it. 

You and a few others wanted to diss one of the most wanted brands in car audio so you started a rumor they don't put out rated power. None of you can come up with proof and just want to make accusations and comparisons to brands everyone knows are ****ty. Nothing else happened. You guys make accusations and provide no proof. I wonder why? Because there is no proof. 

Did your lies do anything? Hell no. One guy listed 10 high dollar Linear Power amps on this forum last week and sold every one of them within 24 hours.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

I've posted just as much proof as you so how does that make me a liar and you not? It goes both ways you know.

I'm still having a hard time figuring out how sales correlate with quality. I mean Boss sells more amps per year than LP ever did so does that mean they're higher quality? Just because you call your opinion "fact" doesn't make it so.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> I've posted just as much proof as you so how does that make me a liar and you not? It goes both ways you know.
> 
> I'm still having a hard time figuring out how sales correlate with quality. I mean Boss sells more amps per year than LP ever did so does that mean they're higher quality? Just because you call your opinion "fact" doesn't make it so.


Are you that ignorant? Do I have to keep repeating myself? This is the last time. People pay for quality. If there wan't something special about them, they would sell for mere peasants, not have the highest resale value of any amp ever produced. That is just another perk about them. Not only do they sound better than any amp I have ever auditioned, I can use them and then get my money right back. Do I need to explain investments to you as well?

Lastly, I will not say this again. You are the one making the accusations. If I stated that I slept with your wife last night...wouldn't you want ME to provide some sort of proof? Of course. Let's be adults if we can. You know what you need to do. Put up or shut up. We are not in 7th grade. Be an adult.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

Dude, you gotta stop, it's hard to type while I'm laughing so hard. Your ignorance is truly on a level that I havren't seen here in quite a while and that's saying something considering the current state of the forum. So price equals quality and because people want something it must be good. Does that about sum up your "facts" that prove LP's aren't overrated?

If you slept with my wife I'd have more important questions like when did I get married and why didn't anyone tell me. You claim to be an adult so where's your proof? If I said they make rated power you wouldn't have even questioned me but since my opinion differs from yours I'm an ignorant liar? Yeah, I'm the one that needs to grow up.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> Dude, you gotta stop, it's hard to type while I'm laughing so hard. Your ignorance is truly on a level that I havren't seen here in quite a while and that's saying something considering the current state of the forum. So price equals quality and because people want something it must be good. Does that about sum up your "facts" that prove LP's aren't overrated?
> 
> If you slept with my wife I'd have more important questions like when did I get married and why didn't anyone tell me. You claim to be an adult so where's your proof? If I said they make rated power you wouldn't have even questioned me but since my opinion differs from yours I'm an ignorant liar? Yeah, I'm the one that needs to grow up.


So then explain it? Why do people pay so much for them still today? Everyone knows there are other quality amps on the market...why aren't those amps selling for the same amount? Because they AREN'T worth as much. Why aren't they worth as much? Because they don't sound as good. 

There is no other explanation.

As far as the wife reference...way to go. You avoided the whole point and turned it into something different.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

gotsqtoo? said:


> So then explain it? Why do people pay so much for them still today? Everyone knows there are other quality amps on the market...why aren't those amps selling for the same amount? Because they AREN'T worth as much. Why aren't they worth as much? Because they don't sound as good.
> 
> There is no other explanation.
> 
> As far as the wife reference...way to go. You avoided the whole point and turned it into something different.


You're still not getting the point, price and demand doesn't equal quality. 

Nostalgia, hype, not knowing any better, there lots of other things to explain the current price and demand for them.

If you had made a point I would have addressed it but you didn't so that's why you got the response you did.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> You're still not getting the point, price and demand doesn't equal quality.
> 
> Nostalgia, hype, not knowing any better, there lots of other things to explain the current price and demand for them.
> 
> If you had made a point I would have addressed it but you didn't so that's why you got the response you did.


No. I made a point and you had no answer. That is the reason for the response you gave. 

There is nostalgia in 10-20 other brands and NONE of them sell for what LP sells for. No one buys because of hype and not knowing any better. You are making excuses for the obvious. There is nothing that sounds like LP and that is why people pay prices higher than all the others.


Lets say someone that "doesn't know any better" and wants an amp that does 500-600 watts. They know the old PPI art series have a good rep and following and they have also heard great things about LP. They haven't ever listened to either to support your accusation that they "don't know any better". Why would they spend $500 on an LP 5002 when they can have more rated power out of a PPI A600.2 for half the price? THEY WOULDN'T!!! That is why your claim that people buy because "they don't know any better" doesn MAKE ANY SENSE IN ANY ASPECT. 

You are far from a rational thinking person. People who are irrational cannot comprehend the real world and take in facts to make an educated decision. This is you. Talking yourself into believing things that you want to believe with NO PROOF.


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## stefanbatory (Aug 18, 2009)

WOW. I never knew that my question will make such a argument  I will test that LP for my self because i fell that something about 230$ for PPI 2150M, Lanzar lxr, that CE 90.32 amp (whatever it is, but looks decent with two gains), nakamichi xover, old cervin sub and two pioneer pdx 1200 changers is quite a good deal even without the LP.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

stefanbatory,

John Yi makes Tru amplifiers and he used to drive a van {back in the day} that had some Linear Power and Cerwin Vega Stroker subwoofers in it.



> TRU Tech
> Guest
> 
> Reply With Quote
> ...


I heard one of the LP amps was replaced before they sent the vehicle to Europe


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

So what is the argument here? That LPs are "junk" because they don't make rated power?

So what? Buy a more powerful one! 

You said it yourself, never trust specs unless you can verify them for yourself. There was hardly a standardized ratings system in the 1980s when most LPs were sold. I would criticize the ratings for an amp if it didn't make rated power, but calling it junk because of that is clearly biased.

Your argument is ludicrous. If nothing else he should buy it and resell it for a profit, which you and I both know he would make. If it were $5, he would make about $95 profit when he sold it. Yeah, that's good advice you're giving him. 

To the OP, there is not one damn thing wrong with Linear Power amps. Just know that it's 20 years old. Some people mistakenly thought that a few minor tweaks could negate 20 years of wear and tear and when it didn't, they became bitter. Wake up people, if I told you that my $50 engine treatment would turn your beater into a Porsche, would you believe that too?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Mooble said:


> To the OP, there is not one damn thing wrong with Linear Power amps. Just know that it's 20 years old. Some people mistakenly thought that a few minor tweaks could negate 20 years of wear and tear and when it didn't, they became bitter. Wake up people


I think you hit the nail on the head 

CA90SS was running the lower amps that were abused is how I read it .

Stock electrical systems will not work with Linear Power amps.

Never throw a hi-performance anything into a street vehicle unless failure is what you are after


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Ok, what a/b amp on the market regardless of who makes it ISN"T 30 year old or older technology? Amps, like speakers haven't changed drastically since being invented.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

Power supplies have gotten significantly more efficient. Linear Powers are definitely not efficient. They are some of the most inefficient amps I've seen. No biggie unless you are running 4 of them on a stock system. 

I've sold off all but one of my LPs. I will agree that they only reason they fetched the prices they did was for nostalgia. Still, they last longer than any amp I've known. There was nothing magical about their sound, but they are sexy and I love their purity. Nothing but a gain pot is the only way to design an amp IMO. I think it's pretty obvious where John got his inspiration for Tru.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

gotsqtoo? is making Ray's nuts sore with all the swinging. IBTL.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

October 1991 issue of CA&E


> Linear Power: 4 ohms @ 660w, 2 ohms @ N/A and bridged at 4 ohms @ 660w (each 8002 is already internally bridged).


Pretty sad for something rated at 800w.
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> October 1991 issue of CA&E
> 
> 
> Pretty sad for something rated at 800w.
> :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


Pretty sad this guy can't show any evidence to support his accusations.

At what voltage? 9.5 volts? This is another accusation no one will post pictures of.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

Mooble said:


> Power supplies have gotten significantly more efficient. Linear Powers are definitely not efficient. They are some of the most inefficient amps I've seen. No biggie unless you are running 4 of them on a stock system.
> 
> I've sold off all but one of my LPs. I will agree that they only reason they fetched the prices they did was for nostalgia. Still, they last longer than any amp I've known. There was nothing magical about their sound, but they are sexy and I love their purity. Nothing but a gain pot is the only way to design an amp IMO. I think it's pretty obvious where John got his inspiration for Tru.


The sound may not be magical...whatever the hell that means. But I have compared them against just about every other amp made and they sound better to me. Nothing even comes close to having the same wide open, natural, detailed sound of LP.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

gotsqtoo? said:


> At what voltage? This is another accusation no one will post pictures of.


You're right, now the magazines are in on the conspiracy too.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Vermithrax (Aug 21, 2007)

ca90ss said:


> You're right, now the magazines are in on the conspiracy too.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


A reporting medium with a hidden agenda, no that never happens.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

gotsqtoo? said:


> ... No one buys because of hype and not knowing any better..


Sorry but are you new.. I don't mean on this forum, I mean in life. You seem totally disconnected from reality to me.

I am still laughing that you wanted to bench a "cheater" amp to prove they are not overrated.


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)




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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

OH NO!! LINEAR POWER has been brought up!!!

Just kidding guys. I used/installed piles of old LP, but just the old TO-3 ones mostly. They are different, some setups I liked them others I did not. They are still here, therefor very durable and a good part of the cost is for that.

If you mean 652, that is a little amp and not much good but for highs maybe mids on a smaller system. If the lanzar is old and made in USA it is a good quality amp also, IIRC they were PPI or something and easy enough to look up.

I have a couple 1002 LP I should toss in the car for kicks, but at 4ohms I run 50w is not going to be enough for me....2002 would be better, or SS D200 better yet for highs, just my .01. But I'm not going to pay for 2002s, I have a lot of other amps to run.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

AAAAAAA said:


> Sorry but are you new.. I don't mean on this forum, I mean in life. You seem totally disconnected from reality to me.
> 
> I am still laughing that you wanted to bench a "cheater" amp to prove they are not overrated.


We would have went by the stated ratings of 185 x 2. That is the stated true power of a 2.2HV at 4 ohm per channel. The 12.5 x 2 rating is taken at 32 ohms. Any amp is fine. Thanks for your two cents. It's funny that you assume I am new to life when I have been in the car audio game for 20 years and own more equipment than you ever will. How do you feel your insufficient knowledge even has a bearing on this conversation?


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


>



Ok. To any rational person on this forum. 

Does anyone not notice that the input voltage for this test was never mentioned? This is KEY. When making power claims this very aspect CANNOT be left behind. The whole test weighs heavily on this figure that was for some reason left out. Why? Obviously to avoid lawsuits and cushion their test for those who "don't know any better."

Also, what was used for the load wasn't mentioned either? Two very obvious things that make this test fishy. 



The hifonics colossus is suppose to put out 600 watts per channel at 4 ohms from 11.5-16 volts. They had a regulated power supply which is even specifically mentioned in the manual that can be found online. Doesn't this lead you to wonder why it didn't meet it's specs? Was the input voltage for this test 10-11 volts? It is also suppossed to do 900 watts at 2 ohms per channel and only did 790 wrms. Hmmm...leads you to wonder what the test voltage was seeing as this amp had a regulated power supply.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

^ Do I really need to come up with a ridiculous amount of examples of people who "buys because of hype and not knowing any better"?

And you can replace buy with "vote","argues" or any other verb in that same thought pattern and that statement will always be wrong.

And your argument of owning a bunch of stuff, on behalf of most people here, convinces no one of anything. It's lame and nobody gives a crap or even necessarily believes you... 

Those 2 things are only a few among other things you have posted that makes you look disconnected to me and perhaps to others on here as well  .


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

I guess you missed the part that says "supply voltage for 1-db power drop" and then goes on to list 12v for the lp so obviously the test voltage was higher to get a 1db drop from the lp at 12v. Nice try though.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> I guess you missed the part that says "supply voltage for 1-db power drop" and then goes on to list 12v for the lp so obviously the test voltage was higher to get a 1db drop from the lp at 12v. Nice try though.


Thanks for making yourself look like a douche!! I was waiting for it. That is NOT the input voltage!! You are so ridiculously clueless!!


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

gotsqtoo? said:


> Thanks for making yourself look like a douche!! I was waiting for it. That is NOT the input voltage!! You are so ridiculously clueless!!


Supply as in B+ voltage. Reading comprehension>you.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

The prices on that list are crazy... how times change...


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

AAAAAAA said:


> ^ Do I really need to come up with a ridiculous amount of examples of people who "buys because of hype and not knowing any better"?
> 
> And you can replace buy with "vote","argues" or any other verb in that same thought pattern and that statement will always be wrong.
> 
> ...



You are just another bandwagon jumper. If I didn't own what I do and have the experience I do, I wouldn't even be having this conversation. So me owning the equipment I do makes ALL the difference. It means I have tested all these amps...not just spew off comments I have read other people say on the internet. That is all you guys do. No experience other that what you read on a forum.


How about this. Call Eric at ID who has won numerous SPL comps in his day and I believe was a world SQ champ at one point. A very reputable name in the industry. I was talking with him the other day and mentioned the LP 8002SW and do you want to know his response. Wow!! I ran those amps back in the day many times. It will do 800 watts at 12 volts but feed it another volt or volt and a half and you are looking at upwards of 1200-1300 watts. Oh, but he has no clue either huh?

How about Roger, the lead tech at Crossfire. Was talking to him one day, we started talking about LP. Mentioned the 8002SW and the same response came from him stating he has measured this amp doing 1300 watts at 13.5 volts.

What about this? Ray himself just set a new world record in the mini SPL category at more than 180db's with 2 4.1HV's. Oh...but they don't put out the power they are suppose to huh. All the other amps must have been way under rates because most of the competition was running 3000 watts plus of class d ****tiness. 

I can go on for days.


----------



## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

AAAAAAA said:


> The prices on that list are crazy... how times change...


The only thing that has changed is that people, such as yourself, don't know what good sound is. You can still pay the high prices for amps, but only if you want the best sound. You, and most others pay for the class D ****tiness and that's why you think times have changed. Amps in your price range sound like ass.


----------



## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

-I am not a bandwagon jumper, I don't know how you can say that.
-As for the SPL win, of course it will happen eventually that a non-mono class D amp will win some time in some category.
-The power of hype and nostalgia can never be underestimated.
-Lots of people like LP's and a lot don't.... just like every other decent "name" amp line in existence.

I am done.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Man, this thread made my day and I am now glad I came back to this forum. 

FWIW, you could not GIVE me a Linear Power amplifier and I owned 14 of them at one point in time! To boot, the 652I that I once owned was the weakest of them all.

ETA: I have that whole review of the amplifiers scanned in on another computer. When time allows, I am going to upload the WHOLE thing!


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

I suspect that soon all amps will be class D or maybe a few hold out for hybrids. It is not a question of quality, near any reasonable brand amp has more quality than human ears can tell.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

sqshoestring said:


> I suspect that soon all amps will be class D or maybe a few hold out for hybrids. It is not a question of quality, near any reasonable brand amp has more quality than human ears can tell.


Class D has been around for a LONG time in the Pro Audio world. I owned some of the first edition QSC Powerlites back in 1998 or so, and IMHO they sounded MUCH better than the Alpine PDX series of today. Unfortunately I had reliability issues with the QSC power amplifiers and switched back to my ultra heavy high voltage Peavey amps.

Fast forward to today.... IMHO, JL Audio managed to get their full-range class D amplifiers right with the HD series. I've been impressed with the ones I have heard thus far. If other manufacturers start making their full-range class Ds sound that good for the 12 volt world, the only reason to run old school gear will be for nostalgia purposes. Well that OR one can have bragging rights by stating that their 500 watt TO3 transistor class ab amplifier pulls 85 to 90 amps to produce 500 watts RMS @ 14.4 volts. 

ETA: The Clarion DPX1851 class GH amplifier that I am currently running in my Mustang puts a SPANKING to the Linear Power 5002 that I was once running on the same subwoofer. IIRC, I paid $150 for the Clarion new and authorized from Crutchfield whereas the Linear Power cost me $475 used for a relic from 1991. Granted, I am running the Clarion at 2 ohms whereas I was running the Linear Power at 8 ohms bridged... Who wants to guess which amplifier was/is easier on my electrical system?


----------



## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Class D has been around for a LONG time in the Pro Audio world. I owned some of the first edition QSC Powerlites back in 1998 or so, and IMHO they sounded MUCH better than the Alpine PDX series of today. Unfortunately I had reliability issues with the QSC power amplifiers and switched back to my ultra heavy high voltage Peavey amps.
> 
> Fast forward to today.... IMHO, JL Audio managed to get their full-range class D amplifiers right with the HD series. I've been impressed with the ones I have heard thus far. If other manufacturers start making their full-range class Ds sound that good for the 12 volt world, the only reason to run old school gear will be for nostalgia purposes. Well that OR one can have bragging rights by stating that their 500 watt TO3 transistor class ab amplifier pulls 85 to 90 amps to produce 500 watts RMS @ 14.4 volts.


Comments like this just prove how serious you AREN'T about your sound. If I need to install a bigger alternator and another battery to sound the best I can...so be it. That is the line where a true audiophile stops and someone like you starts. Someone who wants a full range class D amp. I have never heard something so stupid. First people wanted A/B over A and now the dramitic change to class d for front stage. Horrible. Pick a different hobby guy. Some of us are really in this for the sound.


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

Say, what's Eldridge running for amps?


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

gotsqtoo? said:


> Comments like this just prove how serious you AREN'T about your sound. If I need to install a bigger alternator and another battery to sound the best I can...so be it. That is the line where a true audiophile stops and someone like you starts. Someone who wants a full range class D amp. I have never heard something so stupid. First people wanted A/B over A and now the dramitic change to class d for front stage. Horrible. Pick a different hobby guy. Some of us are really in this for the sound.


Where did I say I was an audiophile? You do realize that the biggest problem with regards to audiophile type sound in the automotive environment is the automobile itself, don't you?

ETA: As for class d versus AB.... I would much rather have an amplifier that provides me 500 watts with 40 to 50 amps of current draw than run a relic from a defunct company that can pull as much as 90 amps to produce the same amount of power.

ETA2: If Linear Power amplifers were so great, how come the company is no longer around? Also, take note, I am not talking about the service center that wormed their way into carrying on the name, I want to know why the amplifiers ceased production around 2001 if they were so dang good.... I'll be waiting for your answer.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

benny said:


> Say, what's Eldridge running for amps?


Hmm, umm.... I am going to go out on a limb and say he is NOT running Linear Power or Lanzar. It's on the tip of my tongue what he is running, but I just can't remember it right now.... DUH, of course I can, JL Audio


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

epper: epper: epper: epper: epper: epper: epper: epper: epper:


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

That means exactly what? Didn't he get beat in Tulsa this year by a daily driven car?



benny said:


> Say, what's Eldridge running for amps?


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

That could be said for a lot of the great companies from the past...HiFonics, Autotek, Rockford, Orion, PPI, a/d/s, etc. Where are they now? They might be around in name, but the product surely isn't the same as it used to be.



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> I want to know why the amplifiers ceased production around 2001 if they were so dang good.... I'll be waiting for your answer.


----------



## 12vTools (Jan 15, 2009)

The cheap mentality of some of the buying public, wanting bling and blue lights and chrome vs solid power and realistic ratings probably had nothing to do with good companies going under.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

thehatedguy said:


> That means exactly what? Didn't he get beat in Tulsa this year by a daily driven car?


**** comps.

I've heard his car and it sounds great.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> That could be said for a lot of the great companies from the past...HiFonics, Autotek, Rockford, Orion, PPI, a/d/s, etc. Where are they now? They might be around in name, but the product surely isn't the same as it used to be.


 
Sadly, many companies out there are just shells of their former selves. There are still a few good ones out there, but they are few and far between.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

g0a said:


> The cheap mentality of some of the buying public, wanting bling and blue lights and chrome vs solid power and realistic ratings probably had nothing to do with good companies going under.


Let's not forget ancient sales schemes and stoneage business plans.:laugh:


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I'm not the one who brought up Elridge and what he is using. Just saying his car was beat by a more pedestrian setup. 



bassfromspace said:


> **** comps.
> 
> I've heard his car and it sounds great.


----------



## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

thehatedguy said:


> I'm not the one who brought up Elridge and what he is using. Just saying his car was beat by a more pedestrian setup.


You brought up the fact that his car was beat at comp.

How is that relevant to what was asked?

He still has a great sounding car using full-range class D amplifiers.

It's that simple.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I can't think of too many amp manufactures out there who were around back in the day who still make great stuff.

Soundstream? Nope.

Zapco is about the only one around making good stuff. But some could argue that after Zeff left in the late 90s, that their amps haven't broke much new ground.



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Sadly, many companies out there are just shells of their former selves. There are still a few good ones out there, but they are few and far between.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I'm saying to try to use one person as an example to judge all others by is silly...especially when that car has been beat. How many cars have 12W6v2s in each kickpanel? And an array across the dash?

I didn't say he didn't have a good sounding car. But you have to agree that what is done in that car is the exception to the rule, and not the rule. 



bassfromspace said:


> You brought up the fact that his car was beat at comp.
> 
> How is that relevant to what was asked?
> 
> ...


----------



## 12vTools (Jan 15, 2009)

bassfromspace said:


> Let's not forget ancient sales schemes and stoneage business plans.:laugh:


and the internet, where anyone can talk bad about a company or individual and hide behind their keyboard free from scrutiny or fact checking.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Surely to god no one would ever do that on the internet.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

g0a said:


> and the internet, where anyone can talk bad about a company or individual and hide behind their keyboard free from scrutiny or fact checking.


Nothing an attorney couldn't handle.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

thehatedguy said:


> I'm saying to try to use one person as an example to judge all others by is silly...especially when that car has been beat. How many cars have 12W6v2s in each kickpanel? And an array across the dash?
> 
> I didn't say he didn't have a good sounding car. But you have to agree that what is done in that car is the exception to the rule, and not the rule.


His car is definately an exception to the rule.

Simply put, an example was provided where a car was made to sound good using fullrange class d amplifiers, which was brought up to counter the point made by the SQ guru uptop who would NEVER run class D.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I'm not completely convinced on class D amps for critical listening either. I don't see the benefits in the technology. But the market will go there because they are cheap to produce off shore in china or korea, not because they sound great. Most of the consumer market thinks MP3s are reference material. A lot of innovation in this decade hasn't necessarily gone foward in terms of sonics.

I think clasa a/b and it's variants like g/h can have really great efficiency numbers, a reasonably small foot print, and sound great too. Will it be cheap? Not as cheap as making a class D cookie cutter amp.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Phoenix Gold? Nope.

Kicker? Nope. 

MTX? Nope.

US Amps? Nope.

Xtant? See MTX.

Please help me because I am drawing a lot of blanks trying to figure out who is left from the glory days that still makes something worth a ****. These companies might still be in business, but for all practical purposes they aren't what they used to be. I would rather see a company go out of business making good equipment that be whored out to a shell of what it used to be. 



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Sadly, many companies out there are just shells of their former selves. There are still a few good ones out there, but they are few and far between.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Sadly, many companies out there are just shells of their former selves. There are still a few good ones out there, but they are few and far between.


So then what was you rpoint again about Linear Power not being around anymore? Are you trying to say none of the good old school amps aren't around anymore because they just weren't that good? 

Didn't think so. Who are you to judge anyway? From what I can tell. All of you LP haters sell off your product and buy the cheapest thing around like Clarion amps from Crutchfield. So funny that people like you think your statements will be believed when true sound quality is not what you are after. Why didn't you buy some new Zapco reference amps? Why not Sinfoni? 

I will answer that for you...because you aren't after the best sound. You are after low current draw and low pressure on your wallet. This is the reason you shouldn't have LP even on your tongue. They were never meant for people like you. They are meant "For the love of music"....not for low current, draw, cheap prices, and then some type of sound for your speakers to play with whatever is left.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

FOR THE LOVE OF BANANAS!!


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

gotsqtoo? said:


> So then what was you rpoint again about Linear Power not being around anymore? Are you trying to say none of the good old school amps aren't around anymore because they just weren't that good?
> 
> Didn't think so. Who are you to judge anyway? From what I can tell. All of you LP haters sell off your product and buy the cheapest thing around like Clarion amps from Crutchfield. So funny that people like you think your statements will be believed when true sound quality is not what you are after. Why didn't you buy some new Zapco reference amps? Why not Sinfoni?
> 
> I will answer that for you...because you aren't after the best sound. You are after low current draw and low pressure on your wallet. This is the reason you shouldn't have LP even on your tongue. They were never meant for people like you. They are meant "For the love of music"....not for low current, draw, cheap prices, and then some type of sound for your speakers to play with whatever is left.


Ummm, did you catch earlier where I said I once owned 14, yes *FOURTEEN Linear Power amps*, or did you happen to miss that part?

Regardless, I'll take my current production Lunar Amplifiers for the mids and highs while running something fairly cheap on the subwoofer when I can get away with it. If you start lecturing me with regards to sound quality on a subwoofer where the human ear is the least sensitive to the lower octave frequencies, you are just going to make me laugh more.:laugh:

But, I'll digress. If you like running amplifiers that exhibit oscillating noise, hiss, and other various oddities, while being horribly inefficient, and unable to make rated power, go ahead and run Linear Power. In the end, it is just car audio where SQ at 70 MPH with the windows rolled down is totally moot.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Phoenix Gold? Nope.
> 
> Kicker? Nope.
> 
> ...


Well, what about TRU, Butler, Lunar, Audison, Genesis, Sinfoni, or Brax?

Granted, these aren't old school companies that came out of Arizona, but, they do make a decent product when compared to most of the old school names that are now mass produced overseas.


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

gotsqtoo? said:


> I am very busy.



:icon_bs:


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Those are all great amps, but I wasn't including European made amps as they have only recently had serious stable distribution in the US.

But Butler? They were bought by PPI last decade.

Lunar? Are they still in business? They had less distribution than LP.



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Well, what about TRU, Butler, Lunar, Audison, Genesis, Sinfoni, or Brax?
> 
> Granted, these aren't old school companies that came out of Arizona, but, they do make a decent product when compared to most of the old school names that are now mass produced overseas.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

And if you want to get technical, out of those euro brands listed, only Audison has any market presence and distribution in the US...and this is like their 5th try to get established in the US. Brax and Genesis were both repped by Peter Lufrano and they have pretty much gone no where big since getting new distributors. Sinifoni never had any distribution to begin with.

Having come and gone or not having any rep here is like folding house IMO.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

It makes us feel better to buy more expensive equipment due to a supposed inherent superiority over cheaper products, but the fact remains that this is subjective.

The objective view is that car audio is subject to economies of scale (I know people hate to hear that)and quality equipment can be had for cheaper prices.


----------



## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Phoenix Gold? Nope.
> 
> Kicker? Nope.
> 
> ...


Define "worth a ****".

That's the problem, MSRP is not that defining factor. And if you say SQ then I will ask why, if it has so much more SQ then anything else, aren't they used in all SQ cars.

I think whats eluding a lot of people is that cheep prices does not a cheep product make. Those korean\chinese\taiwanese factories can clone and make anything just as well as anything that was made in the US..... but for for a cheeper price. Old technology is easy to replicate.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Lunar? Are they still in business?


You betcha. A lot of guys in Louisiana competitions are running them and a buddy of mine is friends with Kenny. I currently own six lunar amplifiers and I am running 3 of them and should be running four of them shortly in two of my installs.

Guess which brand replaced Linear Power in my setups.


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## cubdenno (Nov 10, 2007)

This thread is awesome!!


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> You betcha. A lot of guys in Louisiana competitions are running them and a buddy of mine is friends with Kenny. I currently own six lunar amplifiers and I am running 3 of them and should be running four of them shortly in two of my installs.
> 
> Guess which brand replaced Linear Power in my setups.


Well I bet in acouple months of your Lunar nut swinging you will start your ragging on them to, just like you did on LP:laugh:


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

BeatsDownLow said:


> Well I bet in acouple months of your Lunar nut swinging you will start your ragging on them to, just like you did on LP:laugh:


I think that is highly unlikely because unlike Ell Pee, the Lunars WORK in my particular installations.

If I had to switch, it would probably be Arc Audio, JL HD, or ZAPCO.


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## razholio (Apr 15, 2008)

no love for zed audio? They were the name behind alot of the old-school goodness, and they currently sell amps under their own name, though distribution is low...


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

cubdenno said:


> This thread is awesome!!


Eh, it's pretty stupid if you ask me. "Junk" is reserved for brands like Konaki, Soundstorm, Pyramid, etc. 

You may not think LPs are worth the money they fetch. But to call them junk is a pretty clear indicator that you have been burned and have a severely biased opinion. You can't expect a 20 year old amp of any kind to be comparable to a brand new amp. At least use a more modern LP like a DPS or HV series for your comparison. Has anyone heard hiss from a DPS350? I doubt it. What strange things does a 2.2HV do?


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

I have never heard a hiss from an LP period.

Let's not forget that installation is everything in a car and I am sure Mustang doesn't spend much time on it. He himself said he isn't an audiophile. He wants to hear loud music. There is no sense in arguing the issue any longer with him. I am on another level with my music. It means something to me to hear every detail....it means something to him to buy cheap and not upgrade his alternator.


----------



## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> ETA: The Clarion DPX1851 class GH amplifier that I am currently running in my Mustang puts a SPANKING to the Linear Power 5002 that I was once running on the same subwoofer. IIRC, I paid $150 for the Clarion new and authorized from Crutchfield whereas the Linear Power cost me $475 used for a relic from 1991.


FYI, this is a completely bogus comparison. The Clarion retailed for 3x that price. Crutchfield was blowing out a discontinued amp at obscenely low prices. Linear Power blew out their amps too when the shop closed. If you had bought a 3.2HV then, you would have gotten one at a similar savings.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

gotsqtoo? said:


> I have never heard a hiss from an LP period


I have, but they were old. That's what you get when you buy a 20 year old amp. Caps wear out. It's amazing that it's still running after 20 years, but turn-on pops and hiss are a fact of life when you buy an old amp and expect a few tweaks to replace 20 years of innovation.


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## stefanbatory (Aug 18, 2009)

Sorry to interrupt but you guys went a little offtopic, can anybody say something about lanzar lrx amps? Or anybody konws what is this --> http://photos04.allegroimg.pl/photos/400x300/793/42/88/793428812_2 ?


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## OSN (Nov 19, 2008)

stefanbatory said:


> Sorry to interrupt but you guys went a little offtopic, can anybody say something about lanzar lrx amps? Or anybody konws what is this --> http://photos04.allegroimg.pl/photos/400x300/793/42/88/793428812_2 ?


I had an LXR200 way back when (100x2 if memory serves) driving 2 12w1s and it suited me just fine. No issues with the performance at all.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I love Lunar amps, glad to see they are still alive and kicking. Would run them in my car without question.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Yeah they can clone their asses off, but they have a hard time making something new or bettering something.

Old techology? All amps are old technology...same as speakers. Nothing has really changed in all these years.



AAAAAAA said:


> Define "worth a ****".
> 
> That's the problem, MSRP is not that defining factor. And if you say SQ then I will ask why, if it has so much more SQ then anything else, aren't they used in all SQ cars.
> 
> I think whats eluding a lot of people is that cheep prices does not a cheep product make. Those korean\chinese\taiwanese factories can clone and make anything just as well as anything that was made in the US..... but for for a cheeper price. Old technology is easy to replicate.


----------



## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Yeah they can clone their asses off, but they have a hard time making something new or bettering something.
> 
> Old techology? * All amps are old technology...same as speakers. Nothing has really changed in all these years*.


That was my own point btw to counter what you seem to reference as being "junk" products. 

Basically I am saying todays stuff is just as good but cheeper and more powerfull as most old school stuff (but perhaps not designed\built with extreme longevity in mind...I guess that could be called "knowing your consumer".).

In any case I see you are jumping around to different subjects and not staying on your own point.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Mooble said:


> At least use a more modern LP like a DPS or HV series for your comparison. Has anyone heard hiss from a DPS350? I doubt it. What strange things does a 2.2HV do?


I had a TIPS Modified LP 150 which was allegedly the same as the DPS500 and it did not exhibit hiss or any other noise issues. IMHO, it was the best out of ALL the Linear Power amplifiers I owned for powering mids and highs. Subs, not so much...



Mooble said:


> FYI, this is a completely bogus comparison. The Clarion retailed for 3x that price. Crutchfield was blowing out a discontinued amp at obscenely low prices. Linear Power blew out their amps too when the shop closed. If you had bought a 3.2HV then, you would have gotten one at a similar savings.


Maybe, maybe not. I've yet to see a working 5002(IQ) go for $150. Even if I did, I would still choose the Clarion DPX1851 over it! 



Mooble said:


> I have, but they were old. That's what you get when you buy a 20 year old amp. Caps wear out. It's amazing that it's still running after 20 years, *but turn-on pops and hiss are a fact of life when you buy an old amp and expect a few tweaks to replace 20 years of innovation.*


Well, a certain someone needs to STOP misrepresenting that his RIPS, I mean TIPS modifications will bring those relics up to modern day specifications because they DON'T! While I was impressed with the modifications at first, it didn't take me long to realize that psychoacoustics makes one hear differences to justify wasting money on the modifications. It was even more demoralizing to have an amplifier that was repaired and modified start doing the SAME thing that initially caused me to send it in for repair four months later.

Overall I agree with you because I feel that the HV and DPS series were the best out of all the Linear Power amplifiers produced. If they weren't so rare, I would have NO problems running the HV or DPS line BUT I am not paying the $700 that the last 4 channel DPSQ50 amplifier ran for on the TIPS site. Sadly, the older models were just too finicky for me with unsolvable noise issues.

Of course, at the end of the day, it is just car audio. What didn't work for me may work fine for someone else and what works fine for someone else may not work for me. That's just how the cookie crumbles.


----------



## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

How can something be as good as something else when as you say it's "perhaps not designed\built with extreme longevity in mind?"

It's just as good except...well, that doesn't make it just as good does it? That makes it not as good.



AAAAAAA said:


> That was my own point btw to counter what you seem to reference as being "junk" products.
> 
> Basically I am saying todays stuff is just as good but cheeper and more powerfull as most old school stuff (but perhaps not designed\built with extreme longevity in mind...I guess that could be called "knowing your consumer".).
> 
> In any case I see you are jumping around to different subjects and not staying on your own point.


----------



## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

gotsqtoo? said:


> I have never heard a hiss from an LP period.


Hmm, I now question your being on another level with your music, especially if you are running anything earlier than the DPS or HV series Linear Power amplifiers and you don't notice any weird noise related issues.



gotsqtoo? said:


> Let's not forget that installation is everything in a car and I am sure Mustang doesn't spend much time on it.


While I will agree that installation will make or break you, your general assumptions about how much time I spend on my very own installations is totally WRONG. In fact, I probably spend TOO much time on the installation when I am trying to make something work. For example, I built FIVE enclosures for a Solobaric L5 before I concluded that it was just destined to produce muddy, inaccurate, bass. 



gotsqtoo? said:


> He himself said he isn't an audiophile. He wants to hear loud music. There is no sense in arguing the issue any longer with him. I am on another level with my music. It means something to me to hear every detail....


The best I can hope for in a mobile environment is a sound system that is able to overcome road, engine, exhaust, and other externally introduced noises while still sounding good doing so. I'll save the true audiophile experience for the home where it is much easier to control the environment variables versus wasting efforts chasing problem after problem in the 12 volt world.



gotsqtoo? said:


> it means something to him to buy cheap and *not upgrade his alternator*.


Wow, you truly know nothing about me at all. I am running a 160 amp alternator in my 2006 Mustang and a 170 amp alternator in my 1997 Civic. I even went through the pains of running a bootleg ECU in my Civic to remove Honda's ELD.

As for buying cheap, you are right about that. I spent my first career as an accountant, and I am ALWAYS looking for a bargain! When it comes to my hobbies and obsessions, I will spare no expense where I deem it necessary. On the same notion, I also won't pass up a great deal either.


----------



## PimpMySound (Oct 10, 2008)

stefanbatory said:


> Sorry to interrupt but you guys went a little offtopic, can anybody say something about lanzar lrx amps? Or anybody konws what is this --> http://photos04.allegroimg.pl/photos/400x300/793/42/88/793428812_2 ?


This seems to be an amp from the Italian brand "Coral Electronic"


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

Mooble said:


> "Junk" is reserved for brands like Konaki, Soundstorm, Pyramid, etc.


So what makes these brands junk and LP not?



> You may not think LPs are worth the money they fetch. But to call them junk is a pretty clear indicator that you have been burned and have a severely biased opinion.


How was I burned when I made money on almost all of the LP's I had that I sold and the ones I didn't make profit on I broke even? How am I biased for not liking them but the people who like them aren't?



Mooble said:


> I have, but they were old. That's what you get when you buy a 20 year old amp. Caps wear out. It's amazing that it's still running after 20 years, but turn-on pops and hiss are a fact of life when you buy an old amp and expect a few tweaks to replace 20 years of innovation.


I have several 20 year old amps from different manufacturers that don't have any noise issues. Noise can come with age but most of the time it's due to poor design. I'm willing to bet that they were likely just as noisy when they were new.


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## sqshoestring (Jun 19, 2007)

Lanzar LXR Made in USA, it is a good amp then:
http://archive.liveauctioneers.com/archive/423/0950_1_lg.jpg


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> So what makes these brands junk and LP not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't you realize how stupid you sound? If LP is so horrible then why are people still using them? Why are we having this conversation. Now respond with hype and nostalgia again. How did they get that hype?....from being bad? Ok, buddy. You are irrational. You don't understand that nothing you say makes sense. I have respect for people who can state factual points and provide evidence for claims. You on the other hand get no respect because everything you state is a personal opinion back by a few others on this forum. That is all. They have the "hype", as you call it, for a reason. If they were so horrible back when they were originally made, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

How are LP fans not biased? Because we don't go around ripping other people threads to shame to discredit other companies. Do you see me going around knocking what everyone else uses when they bring it up in conversation? No. You saw the name Linear Power in the title of this thread and felt the need to discredit them as you do every time someone brings the brand up. That is the difference.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

gotsqtoo? said:


> Don't you realize how stupid you sound? If LP is so horrible then why are people still using them? Why are we having this conversation. Now respond with hype and nostalgia again. How did they get that hype?....from being bad? Ok, buddy. You are irrational. You don't understand that nothing you say makes sense. I have respect for people who can state factual points and provide evidence for claims. You on the other hand get no respect because everything you state is a personal opinion back by a few others on this forum. That is all. They have the "hype", as you call it, for a reason. If they were so horrible back when they were originally made, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
> 
> How are LP fans not biased? Because we don't go around ripping other people threads to shame to discredit other companies. Do you see me going around knocking what everyone else uses when they bring it up in conversation? No. You saw the name Linear Power in the title of this thread and felt the need to discredit them as you do every time someone brings the brand up. That is the difference.


Delusional.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

ca90ss said:


> So what makes these brands junk and LP not?


That's pretty easy to answer.

1) Quality of parts. Open up a Cuspid and what do you see? Do you find quality parts or the cheapest **** they could possibly lay their hands on? Every LP I have opened uses well known brands of parts, even some very expensive (relatively) WIMA film caps. While they are not as efficient at cooling, T-O3s are much more expensive and hearty as hell. That's one reason LPs last while others don't. They are resoundingly overbuilt using the most robust parts.

2) Strength of output section relative to power. Most junk amps barely have enough output transistors for 1/2 their rated power. They are nothing but air inside when you open them up. My lil' 901 has 8 T-O3s for 90 watts of rated output. Again, LP is overbuilt which is why they last. Obviously I am not talking about modded LPs that have been tweaked within 10% of their breaking point.

3) The ability to make rated power does certainly factor into the mix. Most LPs I owned had no trouble making rated power. Most of them made more than rated power too. How many examples do you all have of LPs not making rated power? There may be a couple examples, but I would wager they are the exception, not the rule. You'd be hard pressed to find a single junk amp that CAN make rated power.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

Mooble said:


> That's pretty easy to answer.
> 
> 1) Quality of parts. Open up a Cuspid and what do you see? Do you find quality parts or the cheapest **** they could possibly lay their hands on? Every LP I have opened uses well known brands of parts, even some very expensive (relatively) WIMA film caps. While they are not as efficient at cooling, T-O3s are much more expensive and hearty as hell. That's one reason LPs last while others don't. They are resoundingly overbuilt using the most robust parts.
> 
> ...


Very well put. Now I can imagine the haters are going to come back and say "my Clarion amp sounds just as good with it's ****ty parts". It's a carousel ride for the cheapskates and will never end.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Nope, he's right. The post took the turn for the worse when the mod decided to take it there.



bassfromspace said:


> Delusional.


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> Well, a certain someone needs to STOP misrepresenting that his RIPS, I mean TIPS modifications will bring those relics up to modern day specifications because they DON'T! While I was impressed with the modifications at first, it didn't take me long to realize that psychoacoustics makes one hear differences to justify wasting money on the modifications. It was even more demoralizing to have an amplifier that was repaired and modified start doing the SAME thing that initially caused me to send it in for repair four months later.
> 
> Overall I agree with you because I feel that the HV and DPS series were the best out of all the Linear Power amplifiers produced. If they weren't so rare, I would have NO problems running the HV or DPS line BUT I am not paying the $700 that the last 4 channel DPSQ50 amplifier ran for on the TIPS site. Sadly, the older models were just too finicky for me with unsolvable noise issues.


Couldn't agree more. When you boost the power like that you can only hurt reliability and there is no way that a few simple mods can completely negate a hard life. Such an assertion should never be made. Ray did a good job of repairing some broken LPs of mine, but as far as mods go, they are a bust.

I also couldn't agree more that LPs, especially the last models, are priced ridiculously. They were not worth the prices I paid relative to performance. That's the collector market driving up prices. About a year ago, some fools were paying $650 for a/d/s/ pq15 amps too.  There has always been a mystique about LPs and that sends prices through the roof. Monolithic is even worse. I'd say LP had one of the most successful marketing strategies in the business. They are still coveted feverishly after all these years.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Speaking of which, I wonder what my pair of Monolithic A501Ms would fetch?


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## Mooble (Oct 21, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Speaking of which, I wonder what my pair of Monolithic A501Ms would fetch?


Judging by past prices, about $1000 each. 

Still nothing next to this guy's collection:http://www.spinaudio.net/images/MONOLITHIC/(20)MonolithicsLinedUp-.jpg


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> Nope, he's right. The post took the turn for the worse when the mod decided to take it there.


First, what does me being a mod have to do with any of this and second I simply stated my opinion, it's not my fault someone got bent out of shape because I don't like his favorite brand.


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## gotsqtoo? (Oct 7, 2009)

ca90ss said:


> First, what does me being a mod have to do with any of this and second I simply stated my opinion, it's not my fault someone got bent out of shape because I don't like his favorite brand.


You are a douche. Nuff said.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

As a mod, why take it there in the first place? You knew what you were going to say would start a **** fest, and you said it...and stayed in the ****.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

WOW. I was thinking about using them in the car..but for 2 grand, I might be changing my mind.



Mooble said:


> Judging by past prices, about $1000 each.
> 
> Still nothing next to this guy's collection:http://www.spinaudio.net/images/MONOLITHIC/(20)MonolithicsLinedUp-.jpg


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

Mooble said:


> That's pretty easy to answer.
> 
> 1) Quality of parts. Open up a Cuspid and what do you see? Do you find quality parts or the cheapest **** they could possibly lay their hands on? Every LP I have opened uses well known brands of parts, even some very expensive (relatively) WIMA film caps. While they are not as efficient at cooling, T-O3s are much more expensive and hearty as hell. That's one reason LPs last while others don't. They are resoundingly overbuilt using the most robust parts.


Except for the wima caps which weren't used in the majority of LP's what other superior brands of parts does LP use? To-3's are no more or less reliable than their plastic counterparts when properly used.



> 2) Strength of output section relative to power. Most junk amps barely have enough output transistors for 1/2 their rated power. They are nothing but air inside when you open them up. My lil' 901 has 8 T-O3s for 90 watts of rated output. Again, LP is overbuilt which is why they last. Obviously I am not talking about modded LPs that have been tweaked within 10% of their breaking point.


Bench that 901 at 20hz and tell me how it fares.



> 3) The ability to make rated power does certainly factor into the mix. Most LPs I owned had no trouble making rated power. Most of them made more than rated power too. How many examples do you all have of LPs not making rated power? There may be a couple examples, but I would wager they are the exception, not the rule. You'd be hard pressed to find a single junk amp that CAN make rated power.


Which models did you test and how did you test them? Every LP I benched (6 or 7 total including to-3 and non to-3 models) with the exception of the 452I failed to make rated power and this was with only one channel driven. I have a few pyramid amps that will do rated power at 4 ohm stereo.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

mebbe these >>> Home



> All Lunar Amplifiers are 100% assembled by hand utilizing proven through hole technology to ensure the connection between the internal components and the printed circuit board is solid and sturdy enough to withstand the abuse of today's auto environment. There are no fancy terms and no "Mumbo-Jumbo" phrases used to describe our products. We chose to let our customers' ears decide, and decide they have. We offer your system the ability to reproduce sound with clarity and capacity to move your speakers with unsurpassed control.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

:laugh:

You don't see me getting all bent out of shape on my el cheapo Clarion do you? I purchased it as an experiment based on a conversation that I had with LW Erath's (LWE Loudspeakers) old business partner. The main point of that conversation was that the former business partner said I could get away with cheap power on a subwoofer and he challenged me to do so. I purchased the Clarion DPX1851 to see if he was right. Prior to that I was running a Lunar L2125 that I picked up for a good price from someone who needed money, but would have been expensive had I paid MSRP for it. Anyhow, he was right because our ears are least sensitive in those lower octaves. As long as the amplifier produces clean power for the subwoofer, it is next to impossible to tell the difference between ab, d, gh, etc. on those sub bass frequencies at similar power levels. OTOH, if the amplifier produces mostly clipped power, like the old Hifonics Brutus series (06 and before), they sound like GARBAGE on subwoofers.

This is how I see it. If one wants to spend their hard earned money running relics from the past for the ultimate sound quality on subwoofer frequencies where the human ear is the least sensitive and 15% or less of most musical content lies, then by all means DO IT! IMHO it is a waste of money and those funds would be better spent on amplifiers and drivers that reproduce the majority of the musical frequencies... The midrange and high frequency drivers/amplifiers!


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

thehatedguy said:


> As a mod, why take it there in the first place? You knew what you were going to say would start a **** fest, and you said it...and stayed in the ****.


Who the **** am I, Nostradamus? I can't predict what others will say and do.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Come on, be real and stop bull ****ting. You do know, and you knew what you were starting when you started posting.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Why did LWE have a servo controller for subs then?

I just learned who LWE was and he had an active feedback servo subwoofer circuit tonight.



06BLMUSTANGGT said:


> :laugh:
> 
> You don't see me getting all bent out of shape on my el cheapo Clarion do you? I purchased it as an experiment based on a conversation that I had with LW Erath's (LWE Loudspeakers) old business partner. The main point of that conversation was that the former business partner said I could get away with cheap power on a subwoofer and he challenged me to do so. I purchased the Clarion DPX1851 to see if he was right. Prior to that I was running a Lunar L2125 that I picked up for a good price from someone who needed money, but would have been expensive had I paid MSRP for it. Anyhow, he was right because our ears are least sensitive in those lower octaves. As long as the amplifier produces clean power for the subwoofer, it is next to impossible to tell the difference between ab, d, gh, etc. on those sub bass frequencies at similar power levels. OTOH, if the amplifier produces mostly clipped power, like the old Hifonics Brutus series (06 and before), they sound like GARBAGE on subwoofers.
> 
> This is how I see it. If one wants to spend their hard earned money running relics from the past for the ultimate sound quality on subwoofer frequencies where the human ear is the least sensitive and 15% or less of most musical content lies, then by all means DO IT! IMHO it is a waste of money and those funds would be better spent on amplifiers and drivers that reproduce the majority of the musical frequencies... The midrange and high frequency drivers/amplifiers!


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## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

So now I'm not allowed to share my opinion because someone somewhere may not agree with it? People bash brands I like all the time but I don't go home crying to mommy about it, I simply view it as a difference of opinion.


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## bassfromspace (Jun 28, 2016)

Dude was full of bitchassness.

He needed a banning.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Why did LWE have a servo controller for subs then?
> 
> I just learned who LWE was and he had an active feedback servo subwoofer circuit tonight.


He invented that in the 60s when power wasn't as abundant as it is today and the woofers/subwoofers took loads of airspace to play nice and deep. A few of my friends have his home setup, and IMHO they sound GREAT! LW Erath also made a contribution to the car audio world, but sadly, only TEN electronic suspension modules were produced.

I am actually running one of those 10 "servo" units in my fiancé's Mazda Tribute. It allowed me to install her Memphis M Class MS124D in a .65 cubic foot enclosure AND get sub bass performance down into the 20 Hz range. The only down side is she sometimes has TOO MUCH sub bass and has to lower the subwoofer level on her DXZ785USB.

I say "servo" loosely because it does not contain an accelerometer/cone position sensor. It was described to me as an analog back-EMF negative feedback controller that models the perfect subwoofer environment in real time and provides the appropriate negative feedback to the amplifier to perform the corrections. It was originally designed to work with the Orion 280 GX, but I have it working with a HCCA 225 Digital Reference. All I know is that sub plays DEEP in that tiny enclosure.

This is one of the photos of the unit:


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

<-wants one of the servo units.

You aren't troystg on diyaudio.com are you? Cause you have a few similarities...


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> <-wants one of the servo units.
> 
> You aren't troystg on diyaudio.com are you? Cause you have a few similarities...


Nope, but I know him! In fact, he has two of those 12v servo units himself as well as a home setup. Another friend has several LWE home setups and collects Vinyl LPs as his hobby.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

How can I get one of those servo units?


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> How can something be as good as something else when as you say it's "perhaps not designed\built with extreme longevity in mind?"
> 
> It's just as good except...well, that doesn't make it just as good does it? That makes it not as good.


Well that's the point once again, some of the over seas amps are made to last a long time as well. 

Do you even know why you are arguing with me? Or simply letting your fingers run just for the sake of it?

My point is new amps from PG or PPI or kicker or whatever brand X aren't all junk, they are simply less expensive because of where they are made. In some cases they might be better because they make more power more efficiently and have better protection IEver load, heat etc.


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## stefanbatory (Aug 18, 2009)

If you say that new PG amps are better than the old ones, then I have no other questions!


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> How can I get one of those servo units?


Sadly, I purchased the last one meant for sale, and it had to be built. As I stated, I was told that only 10 were made for "sale" along with several prototypes/custom units. Finding one will be TOUGH.

Oh, they do have a LWE User's group on Yahoo Groups. You could always try there or ask Troy if he will sell one of his. It's doubtful that he will, but the worst he could say is no.



stefanbatory said:


> If you say that new PG amps that the old ones, then I have no other questions!


I am curious though. What "new" production car audio is available in Poland? 

As for PG, I thought they were pretty much out of the car audio game these days since they changed their name to Rodin. Rumor is several of their engineers formed Exile Audio, but that is just what I've heard. Regardless, I would take their old MS series over just about anything they produce today... Then again, I would run their Xenon series!


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## stefanbatory (Aug 18, 2009)

Sorry but if you don't know what is available in Poland, then don't insult my country. We have available almost every new amps, and even if something is not available then always we have ebay. About PG I was referring to octane series and comparing them to M/MS series (I have m44 and m100).


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## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2008)

PG was just bought again and the lead engineer is back working for them now, he was one of the ones with exile, so they are planning some nice things right now


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

stefanbatory said:


> Sorry but if you don't know what is available in Poland, then don't insult my country. We have available almost every new amps, and even if something is not available then always we have ebay. About PG I was referring to octane series and comparing them to M/MS series (I have m44 and m100).


Guess who's part Pole? 

Also, Im sorry to hear about the loss of your national navy, with their screen-door submarines.


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## AAAAAAA (Oct 5, 2007)

stefanbatory said:


> If you say that new PG amps are better than the old ones, then I have no other questions!


Well lets define better?

ZPA's were NOT reliable amps by any standard.
ZX or TI amps would rust.

So you might say they sounded so much better then others but that is really subjective and of course pretty much unprovable.....

There current line, from what I know and I might be wrong, has none of those issues, and no issues of their own. 

Of course I remember a batch of xenon's had issues.

So althought they use to offer what I would call more exiting amplifiers with better marketing , there current amps are still strong and reliable.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

stefanbatory said:


> Sorry but if you don't know what is available in Poland, then don't insult my country. We have available almost every new amps, and even if something is not available then always we have ebay. About PG I was referring to octane series and comparing them to M/MS series (I have m44 and m100).


Woa there, back that train up. First of all, as someone who is part Polish himself, I am NOT insulting Poland in any way, shape, or form. I just was wondering if you were limited like another forum member in Romania who said us "Yanks" had it good because there was NOTHING decent in his home country.

I would still take the M/MS series over the Octane series though.


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