# Do you use an aftermarket Head Unit?



## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

I'm just curious how many people budget a processor or crossover into their system instead of upgrading their head unit. I know it depends on what type of car you drive and the quality of the factory head unit...but it would still be nice to know how many audiophiles can create good sound from a sub-audiophile source.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Hells yeah, it was the first thing I changed in the car, the stockie lasted about 10 days 

I wanted XM capability and MP3 capability. The stock speakers lasted almost a year in there! Not the head!

Chad


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## minitruck_freq (Mar 27, 2005)

im back to stock for a few weeks. it blows ass too. no door speakers so im listening to the factory 4x6's in the upper cab corners. i'll be replacing my 9833 with something else. i just havent figured out what i want yet.


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## Vestax (Aug 16, 2005)

I guess it depends on what car I was driving. A Corolla? Hell yeah I'll change the stock deck. A 330ci? No thanks, the indash navi with changer with vehicle diagnostics would be hard to lose. No doubt though, that aftermarket HU's offer great flexibility and processing over stock units.


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## jeffrey (Jan 3, 2007)

The overall sound quality can only be as good as the source. But, after saying that I will also add that playing MP3 files (very convenient) basically nullifies that argument.

I am a purist and I invested heavily in my source unit for both features and sound quality. However, I used my stock deck for over 6 years and the reason I decided to redo everything was mainly because of no CD-R/MP3 playback.


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## ocuriel (Oct 7, 2005)

Changed mine with a CD7000. Thinking about going back to stock & 3sixty.2 to regain navi voice and steering wheel controls though.


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## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

stock HU here. i love the factory look. all i need my HU to do is either play a cd or send my ipod signal to the amps. processors are in the trunk.

kinda lucky to have such a nice stock HU that can have RCA pre outs and use the CD changer input for the ipod.


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## 8675309 (Jan 8, 2007)

its a must for me


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## andthelam (Aug 9, 2006)

This a DIY audio site, of course the majority of people here would have after- markets. OEM looks nice and all, but the need for good SQ and processing overcomes that OEM thing ten fold.


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## Robert (Jul 23, 2006)

Usually the first thing done.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

andthelam said:


> This a DIY audio site, of course the majority of people here would have after- markets. OEM looks nice and all, but the need for good SQ and processing overcomes that OEM thing ten fold.



Yep, it's DIY, therefore many aren't afraid to pop the top on a factory unit and peel the signal off before the "one chip wonder" power IC's. Which incedentally don't sound too bad when driving a high impedance. The wife's will retain the factory deck, she likes the look, parks in an open lot at work, and does not need the feastures or confusion of a fancy aftermarket deck..... I on the other hand 

Chad


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## Ultrasubs (Mar 13, 2007)

You would be suprised sometimes, in one of our company demo cars we have a Eclipse AVN 2454, the pre amp output was sh*t. So what we did was use a high quality line converter into an Audio control line driver then into an Arc 33 band Eq. The results are excellent SQ and 100% of the people don't believe me unless I show them. 
It's like the old saying, somethings are more than the sum of their parts.
It worked out good but I'm the "change the head unit" first kind of guy.


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## daitrong (May 12, 2005)

i'm currently driving with no Hu.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

If my stock HU hadn't broken, I'd still be using it. It had flat FR, so why bother changing unless it breaks?


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

I've done the same but even without a line converter at times, especially with the Audio Control floating ground units. One can think of it as a rather healthy 12V pre out if the unit does not have a DC-DC converter for the power amp IC's. And that's 12V without PN junction losses!

I will however toss a, say, a 1K FP resistor in parallel with the speaker leads as a "pull down" and a 200 ohm 1/4W FP resistor in series after that for a bit of protection and buffering though, the loss is nil due to the high impedance of the input source.

Like Lambros found, it sounded damn good too, power amp IC's are simply VERY beefy op-amps, and every headunit is full of them.

Chad


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## bj16060 (Jan 13, 2007)

I have Mazdaspeed 6 with Bose head unit. I tapped into the preout at the amp harness underneath the passengers seat and I have been very happy with the results. I have been using and AudioControl dqx for the processing but just purchased a PPI DCX-730.


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## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

My Crown Vics stock HU made me sick to my stomach. I ripped it out and it'll never see the inside of my dash board again unless I trade in the car...and even then, I'd almost feel guilty passing that POS on to someone else.

The stock speakers weren't too hot either, but the HU sucked beyond belief.


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## rcurley55 (Jul 6, 2005)

depends - when I had the zapco dc's, I used an oem head

now I'm pulling it in favor of some alpine gear - primarily b/c I want nav and ipod.


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## rekd0514 (Sep 24, 2006)

Stock is boring! The features of an aftermarket HU are superior.


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## DaveRulz (Jun 22, 2006)

Honestly, a lot of head units in newer cars are not bad, if anything just lacking in features. And even that's going by the wayside. In most cases in new/newer cars the stock head unit in conjunction with a processor is more than sufficient. For example. In my 04 Mazda 6, I first used an Audio contol EQL as line out conversion from the stock head unit, running into my two alpine amps, powering my CDT's passively off the 4 channel amp. I then upgraded to the metra install kit and an alpine CDA-7995. While this was a vast improvement, my front speakers just weren't sounding right to me. So I upgraded to a CDA-9833 and ran the fronts acive off of my 4 channel amp with proper time alignment. They system came alive. But, the metra kit I have is kinda a piece, and started doing funny things with it's illumination and display, while not a deal breaker, it was annoying. So I picked up a PPI DCX-730, threw the stocker back in there, and haven't looked back. It sounds fantastic (to my ears anyways) I've got all the control I need and it's stealth. The only thing I'm missing is MP3 playback and that can be solved using a line in adapter for the tape or changer slots on the head unit. Hell, I could even get the stock MP3 head if I wanted to. I mean, don't get me wrong, there's no way I would ever have kept the stock head unit out of my 91 sable, or the stock "JBL" system in my 95 SHO. But honestly, head units have come a long way as consumers have come to expect more out of them.

And not for nothin' but the stock head unit looks a hell of a lot better in my dash than either of the alpines did.


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## boarder124 (Mar 16, 2006)

I just put my stock head unit back into my 96 lhs and hooked up my dcx-730 to it and i can barely tell the difference between that and my kenwood kdc-x889. I had always bypassed the dsp when I was using the x889, I actually could tell the difference when i would have it on and off on that unit. Once i realized that it was kind of pointless for me to use that nice hu when i wasn't going to be using the features of it, so i took it out and put in the stock hu. The stock hu sounds pretty good, plus i love the idea that those little theives won't see anything in the car that they would want to steal. The only thing that i miss about my aftermarket hu is the remote control and the sub-level fader.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

boarder124 said:


> I just put my stock head unit back into my 96 lhs and hooked up my dcx-730 to it and i can barely tell the difference between that and my kenwood kdc-x889.


Chrysler head units do not suck! I have used the stock D/C heads in a Sebring, 300M, and a Ram Super Bee and they all sounded very good. Did not even use a LOC, just the resistor approach as I mentioned earlier!

Chad


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## fej (Feb 8, 2006)

The 01 vette had the top of the line blose system in it, that lasted about 6 weeks (the time it took to finalize my system purchases after research). Complete and total crap, which is only partially the HU's fault with all of the outside processing that goes on trying to turn **** into gold. Don't even get me started with blose  

The 05 silverado has the bottom of the line (with CD AND tape heh) NON blose system and with a little bit of tinkering with the bass/midrange/treble controls actually sounds pretty decent. I mean it doesn't image, it has no real bass impact below about 90hz, but clarity and tonality are pretty solid for stock IMO. Was really happy when I saw that it was not a blose unit when I was shopping. That being said I have another 8053 waiting for install with the 720prs components I just ordered. Once I finalize my power choices I will be build a single 8w7 setup, run a 2 way active front stage and the single sub and will be gtg  Stock is boring, and replacing an OEM HU with a nicely featured HU allows simple installs with fewer pieces of equipment to find homes for, with all of the benefits of eq/crossover/phase/ta etc.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

I guess I'm lucky with my MS6 since the Bose system has line-outs that go to the amp.


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## wolfman1966 (Mar 18, 2007)

Currently using my stock HU, but with the 2 RE8's hooked up directly to it....it sounds good enough until I get my amp


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## The Blue Blur (Sep 14, 2006)

It would take some work, but the best of both worlds would be to use the factory HU with an integration processor and use an aftermarket HU on the AUX input of the processor. I figure after that with a bit of loving, a soldering iron and maybe some fiberglass, you could relocate the faceplate somewhere tucked away and no one would know the better. I always wanted to put a faceplate on the covered side of a sunvisor for example.


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## jtroy (Mar 25, 2007)

Stock double din 6disc HU for my Mazda tribby

I LIKE the look of stock vs the bling bling flashy lights of todays HUs. The really nice double din HUs ive seen are over 1000 bucks...no thanks. 

Looking at lots of the newer cars many functions are built into the stock HU and isnt worth the trouble of taking out and losing those functions IMO.


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## typericey (May 13, 2006)

Your whole setup is only as good as its source. Garbage in garbage out. No problem in using the OEM radio, but keep your expectations realistic. If you must use the factory radio, just use entry to mid level aftermarket gear with it. Building a high end system around the stock HU is a waste of money, IMO.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

typericey said:


> Your whole setup is only as good as its source. Garbage in garbage out. No problem in using the OEM radio, but keep your expectations realistic. If you must use the factory radio, just use entry to mid level aftermarket gear with it. Building a high end system around the stock HU is a waste of money, IMO.


Why? It's got a laser, a decent DAC and op-amps, there's no reason that it would sound tha bad, especially if you peel off preamp outputs.

Chad


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## POLKAT (Jan 10, 2007)

It was all about $$$ for me. It was cheaper to do what I wanted to do with a Pioneer 880PRS than buying a 3sixty.2 or the equivalent outboard processing. Sure, the 3sixty.2 blows any head unit away in terms of eq/ta/x-over ability, but this is my first shot at an active setup and I wanted to K.I.S.S. as well. :blush:


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Very true, going stock can sometims be more costly in time and/or money. You have to want the look or integration features.

Chad


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Here's a question for you EE gurus. What components are the weak point of factory radios and how difficult would it be to upgrade/replace them? For the most part it is just a bunch of chips on a board right? I've seen people mod head units...so what has to be replaced to improve the quality?


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## MidnightCE (Mar 5, 2007)

I use my factory unit from my Saab to support the weight of the head unit from my Vette in my storage cabinet. 

a 9855 in the saabaru, p 7800 in the vette.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Since the SQ of an amplifier being used within the measured standards range is indistinguishable to the listener from another regardless of price, then does this also apply to a pre-amp like a newer mid-level factory head unit used within its range also. I've read this is not the case with sources like CD players and other but was wondering about preamplifiers since they are amplifiers too.


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## Diru (May 23, 2006)

Well , I have done it to stock head units, but the first thing that need to go are the audio output chip amps, reroute the lines that used to drive the stock chips into RCA outputs.[damned the imp mismatch]

But there is that one thing that got on my nevers about modding a stock HU, is the built in loudness curves. In some cases you can not defeat it and that sucks.

I have even modded an older alpine cd player that didn't even have rca outputs, just like I would on a stock HU. Worked very nicely.

With my current ride, I am thinking of modding a nicer chev stocker HU. That way when the little creeps look in, thats what they see and move on.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Diru said:


> Well , I have done it to stock head units, but the first thing that need to go are the audio output chip amps, reroute the lines that used to drive the stock chips into RCA outputs.[damned the imp mismatch]


Sometimes those_ low impedance op-amps_ don't sound that bad


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## oldloder (Nov 30, 2005)

LOL, I've got an aftermarket head but I can't claim to be an audiophile. But one thing stock heads have over _any_ aftermarket head I've heard is the ability to pull in FM stations _and _ without static. 

Yeah, yeah, I'm a loser for not getting SAT radio, but WTF!


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## aneonrider (Apr 28, 2007)

I haven't listened to radio in my cars in almost 10 years... only listen to that crap in work vehicles because I have no other option.

I much prefer dictating what I want to listen to, plus the added benefit of not having the frequency bandwidth & response mucked with  

No car I have owned has had a stock HU that I would even consider using, since it did not offer the options I look for in my source (like MP3/DVD playback, optical output, processor integration). If they had any of those, or most of them even, then I would consider keeping it.... or if I had no option but to use it, like in some of the new vehicles.


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## jakesford (Jun 27, 2007)

This is the first vehicle I've owned that I haven't replaced the head unit... In fact I sold my 9835 when I bought this mazda, just couldn't make myself ruin the looks of the stock dash.

Stock 6 disc HU, with 3sixty.2 and it sounds great...


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## Fellippe (Sep 15, 2006)

jakesford said:


> This is the first vehicle I've owned that I haven't replaced the head unit... In fact I sold my 9835 when I bought this mazda, just couldn't make myself ruin the looks of the stock dash.
> 
> Stock 6 disc HU, with 3sixty.2 and it sounds great...


I'm definitely leaning towards a stock HU setup one day......not for an all out SQ car but for let's say a high end Benz or something. 

Its possible one day that we'll see stock HUs hooked up to nice amps and new speakers....on a much larger scale than we see now.


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## illnastyimpreza (Oct 25, 2006)

Robert said:


> Usually the first thing done.


definatly...


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## cheesehead (Mar 20, 2007)

I have installed aafter market deck in every vehicle I have owned.


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## Chaos (Oct 27, 2005)

I guess I would say that I have come full circle on this issue.

In the early days of my addication to DIY autosound (late 1980's), the deck was the first thing to go. In fact, I'm sure that I still have a few OEM head units in a box somewhere around here...
I typically would upgrade the source unit first, then the front & rear speakers, and finally add amps and subs as cashflow would allow.

I went through a LOT of gear over the years in this way, and basically never took OEM decks seriously at all.

In more recent times however, I have heard some fair sounding OEM systems as well as heard horror stories about integrated features that are lost by 'upgrading' the head unit to an aftermarket piece. This led me to reconsider my position on factory decks, and look into alternatives from removing them more closely. 

With the advent of more sophisticated and dedicated OEM integration units on the market today, I can honestly say that I am planning perhaps my first system ever in which I intend to keep the OEM unit indefinitely. IF my plan works, then just maybe I will be convinced. If not, I will find a way to make the aftermarket switch once again...


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Now if only OEM decks had optical outputs!!!!


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## Thumper26 (Sep 23, 2005)

chuyler1 said:


> Now if only OEM decks had optical outputs!!!!


no fvcking kidding!


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Thumper26 said:


> no fvcking kidding!


You can grab a digi signal off of almost anything and put an optical out on it. It was a popular thing to do to CD players back in the day. do a google crawl.


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## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

Heres a fun one. I Just bought a JDM OEM honda stock radio.

My car came with a single tape player.

Now if I want to install a Honda branded OEM part, I'll have a 6 disc in dash changer plus an MD player (That will never ever be used)

way cool


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## ATB (Aug 30, 2005)

I replace them when I can. In our Legacy I have had to keep the factory unit and although it is great for stealth, it is a real PITA to use an external processor to "flatten" the response and an external volume control.


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## Kai Winters (Apr 28, 2007)

I have replaced the "radio"/head unit in every car I have owned since my first car in 1973.
My son's, daughter's and wife's cars all have after market systems in them that I installed.
My daughter is a big Alpine fan...hehehe not bad for a 21 year old chica.


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## maxout1970 (Oct 7, 2007)

I am driving a Lexus ES350 and I really can not do without the stock H/U cause other than the Navi function, the Air Conditioner control is also integreted.
The signals off the H/U are sent to Mark Levinson signal processor and power amp to drive 11 stock speakers, including a 8 inch subwoofer down the rear windshield.
The stock tweets are fine with me, but the mid and bass seem a little bit not vivid to me.
Is it the only solution to add a 3 SIXTRY?
If so, where to get the signal? The signal beign sent from the H/U to Mark Levinson? Or from the speaker line?

Many Thanks


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## sundownz (Apr 13, 2007)

Used stock in my BMW 325i and it sounded great... signal was quite good going from the HU to the rear external amp, just tapped it there to an RF 3Sixty.2 unit -- it was almost flat already.

Don't have that car anymore... using aftermarket again in a 2002 Honda Civic (BMW was too expensive to keep up).


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## Ge0 (Jul 23, 2007)

No. Stock Alpine DVD navigation head unit.

Ge0


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## redcalimp5 (Sep 10, 2007)

I've got an Alpine CDA 7998, and it handles my EQ'ing and 2-way active duties just fine by itself.


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## so cal eddie (Oct 1, 2008)

2005 acura tl. stock head unit-audio control lc7-phoenix gold eq215ix-audio control 6xs-amps-speakers


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## LiquidClen (Dec 27, 2005)

so cal eddie said:


> 2005 acura tl. stock head unit-audio control lc7-phoenix gold eq215ix-audio control 6xs-amps-speakers


holy thread revival!

Current HU is an AVN7000 w/ no proc yet. Hoping to get the 5.1 proc soon and run 2-way active


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## Kornnut (Mar 19, 2007)

I want to use my stocker in my truck but I am not 100% about it yet. May just pull the 9885 out of my mustang and upgrade to a 9887 in there but with it being a 1000 miles away at the moment I am not sure when that will happen.


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## REAudioFreak85 (Jan 29, 2009)

I replaced stock head unit in my 95 dodge stealth with a DEH-P7700MP, ive had it for a few years and never had a problem with it..i could never stay with a stock unit not after having a Pioneer


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## Thrill_House (Nov 20, 2008)

chad said:


> You can grab a digi signal off of almost anything and put an optical out on it. It was a popular thing to do to CD players back in the day. do a google crawl.


Is this something that you could still in theory do to a modern aftermarket deck?


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

change it out!


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## wjbrauns (Jan 13, 2009)

I have a 08 silverado and it costs a arm and a leg to change out the radio and keep everything working as stock....so I am rolling the stock with a lc until i save up enough to get a new one....


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

CarPC ftw...


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## NOTORIOUS97200 (Dec 11, 2008)

I think it's easier to deal with a good aftermarket head unit. 
No need to buy processor or anything else, you simply use your rca and no line-out convertor.
It allows you to have a much cleaner install too !!
I love my Pioneer 88 prs-II : I bought it with the Phonocar dash kit even before I had the car !! 
I wanted a Toyota but I bought it only when I was sure I could use an aftermarket head unit !!!  
I lost the steering wheel control (but I should have bought an Alpine h u if I really wanted to keep it!


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## JAG Audio (Jan 21, 2009)

New VW CC, replaced factory HU with JVC KW-AVX810. Retained steering wheel control of volume and mute, added Blue Tooth and USB connection in glove box. Major SQ difference and cleaner look to dash. Lovin it!


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## BlaqJack (Jan 10, 2009)

Had to go Aftermarket. My stocker was the worst.


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## Get_Zwole (Nov 15, 2008)

drz FTW


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## Fish Chris (Dec 14, 2008)

Jeffrey, you said >


> The overall sound quality can only be as good as the source. But, after saying that I will also add that playing MP3 files (very convenient) basically nullifies that argument.


I agree with the first part..... but every time I hear someone say this about MP3 files of a good original recording, I can't help but to tell them, they are out of their effing minds 

IMPO, a funky little underpowered, non-subbed, stock system will "still sound like $#!+", even when playing a full digital CD recording". While a good MP3 played on a high end, plenty of power, great speaker range system, will still sound bad-ass ! 
I'm sure you, and many others, will tell me they can tell a difference between a 320mbs MP3, of a good recording, and that of a straight CD or WAV file..... and ya' know what ? Maybe you guys can. But I sure the hell can't. 

In summary, the difference between a crappy little stock setup, and a high end aftermarket setup, is night and day. Even a non-audiophile can tell the difference. While the difference between a a good MP3 file, and a WAV file, or CD, is so freaking minute, that most of the time, guys just pretend to hear a difference, so they can be part of that "upper level of super-sound guys" ;-) 

Chuckles,
Have a nice day,
Fish

PS, Here shortly, I'll be able to compare this belief yet again, on my new high end system. If I prove myself wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.


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## RedGTiVR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

The manner in which an Mp3 is created, by it's very nature, means that there will be differences between an Mp3 and the original source.

They cut the top end, and bloat the middle, to compress music, you MUST do something to it.

To say you can't hear the difference and that you think that those that say they can are only saying so to 'fit in' is only showing that you have an untrained ear. Just because you can't hear it doesn't mean that those of us that can are making it up. Chances are, those of us that can hear it, can hear it because we have trained our ears to the point that we're actually able to pick up on such nuances rather quickly and are able to discern between compressed music and the source.

If you wish to listen to compressed music and you're happy with it, so be it, more power to you, but to down on people because they demand better, that's just not right.


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## AudioBob (May 21, 2007)

I'm running the factory head unit on my 2007 Saturn Vue into a Phoenix Gold SLD44 Line Driver and it sounds excellent. My amp gains are at minimum and I have zero system noise and a strong signal.

I don't know if I will go to an aftermarket head-unit or not. I am going to add an equalizer to the mix shortly to tune the system using an RTA. I am using no eq currently and the three bands on my factory unit severely limit any tuning anyway.

I am one to typically get an aftermarket head unit within a couple of days of owning a car, but this has worked out so far.


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## D1g1tal V3n0m (Dec 24, 2008)

Clarion HX-D10 current HU
Bought a 800PRS used so going to give that a shot


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## D1g1tal V3n0m (Dec 24, 2008)

Bit by the lag


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## Fish Chris (Dec 14, 2008)

Hey RedGTi, you said >


> If you wish to listen to compressed music and you're happy with it, so be it, more power to you, but to down on people because they demand better, that's just not right.


Your right. My apoligies. Must have been some good coffee this morning ;-) LOL
I do appreciate that you guys are so easy on my far-left arse though.

In fact, after I got in my car, and headed for work, I kept thinking that I should have added > Please don't mind my whacked out arse too much. Nobody who knows me does 

In all seriousness though, I'm not even completely sure that "training" could help me to hear some of the fine differences you speak of. My hearing nerve damage might already be too much for that. 

Also, I do still believe that some % (be it 1% or 80  will say they can hear a difference in certain aspects of a recording, just because, they think they "should" be able to.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also, I was thinking that my rant did kind of stray from the OP's question. 
So yes, I am definately going with an aftermarket HU..... but I really don't think the CD source signal of my aftermarket Kenwood Excelon 792 would sound much, if any better, in itself. The main reasons I'm going with an aftermarket HU are for the x-over, and other sound processing features.
Probably all I needed to say to begin with  Doh ! 

Peace,
Fish


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## invicta61 (Nov 10, 2008)

I have found that you are better off changing out the stock head unit, no matter how many girations you have to go thru to fit it.


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## rain27 (Jan 15, 2009)

can't stand a stock hu no matter what car it is; it's what you see the most


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## dbleon (Feb 9, 2009)

I love my Panasonic cq8803u... I also love older cars, so using OEM is out of the question.


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## hybridspl (May 9, 2008)

I originally had a Clarion DRX9255 (1996), but "upgraded" to a Pioneer Avic-D3 because it had more features, but canned it due to BS pico fuse gimmick. Now I am back to my stock headunit with a Rockford 360.2, and have been talking to Clarion to see about hotrodding my factory radio. I may even be able to solder a ribbon cable to an aftermarket HU and tap into my Honda face plate to make it all work. All in theory, though. In reality, it doesn't sound all that difficult, unless I venture away from Clarion.


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## zGhost (Oct 28, 2008)

wjbrauns said:


> I have a 08 silverado and it costs a arm and a leg to change out the radio and keep everything working as stock....so I am rolling the stock with a lc until i save up enough to get a new one....


I changed out my factory HU 3 weeks after buying the truck. With a periphal interface $99 I was able to keep everything, all the chimes, OnStar, and OnStars Phone. (Seems we get a substantial insurance break retaining the OnStar so it was a necessity) Well worth it in my opinion. I couldn't stand that cheesy stock HU.


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## SQ_Blaze (Sep 29, 2008)

Aftermarket here. Being the fact that I have an '02 Chevy Blazer, the stock head unit totally sucked. It sounded like pooh and it always sucked out the bass when the volume was turned up, as most stock units do. The only somewhat cool thing about it was the RDS feature and that it automatically set the time for you. LOL 

In fact, I just upgraded from an old Clarion unit that decided to die on my and eat CD's to a new Kenwood. It has tons more features, a real crossover built in, is expandable and has USB.

Here's a quick pic of it with and without a jump-drive plugged in. Also note the knob and LED for the Epicenter.


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## chargedtaco (Feb 27, 2008)

always have.


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## NickoDaFsh (Mar 1, 2009)

The stock head unit is the first thing to go for me. the only advantage of the stock head was the RDS feature. 

Now I have better quality sound and can access my thumb drive in my car and have excellent controll of all aspects of my music!


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## Dillyyo (Feb 15, 2008)

Stock here. The G37 is way to integrated for me to rip it out, plus I would have to give up the Ipod, hard drive, navi, A/V input, touch screen etc. The signal is a balanced signal that goes into my DSP6 for all corssover, EQ and TA functionalities and I get zip zero noise with excellent sound. Not sure but I was informed that the Bose system (Clarion HU) had 20 bit Burr-Browns so I don't think I would gain much if anything with after market.


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## CAPO (Apr 12, 2008)

If I were to buy a new car like a GS or a S-type R the stock stays. Nav DvD player Clean Look. Add a clean sweep and a Audio Control and Im good


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## Strtsk8r321 (Mar 16, 2009)

I am using my stock g35 bose head unit, no problems for me  flame on!


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## bLG (May 1, 2009)

the only thing I miss on my factory Delco radio is RDS features, otherwise it was horrible.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

I run a BMW Nav HU with iPod, Bluetooth, and flat full-range balanced out in one car, and an Acura Nav HU with aftermarket iPod and aftermarket Bluetooth, and flat full-range balanced outputs, in the other.


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## diamondjoequimby (Jun 30, 2009)

07 TL-S, stock nav h/u (soon to be installed) DSP6. Love this option because I keep nav, DVD-A playback, stock bluetooth (which works really well), and it looks like it belongs. I even get to keep my cassette deck!


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## huckorris (Sep 2, 2009)

My parents gave my their old van about a year ago but I used to borrow it in High school. 

My 1995 Honda Odyssey had a cassette deck that did not like to rewind or FF. 

Years before those functions died the speakers blew from my friend in the passenger seat always raising the volume or bass boost with Bone Thugs (yea, High School ). I don't think the tweets were blown because they could easily pierce your ears.

It allllll had to go. It actually was a real nightmare. The radio around here is pretty limited (ie. crap).


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## uber_noob (Dec 12, 2009)

Alpine 9887 no imprint, playing Lossless files from my Ipod classic 80gb.


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

I did change my head unit, but you can hardly tell.


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## DS-21 (Apr 16, 2005)

I use that one, too. (Well, I use the US version. Yours is reversed, leading me to believe it's a JDM or UKDM model.) It sounds just like any other headunit, but looks absolutely stunning. I do with the knobs were aluminum rather than plastic, though.

You know that with the Clarion EA1251B plugged into the Mac you can control and power an iPod, right? The interface is a quite primitive - you only see track number, and even THAT you only see up to the tens place on a track with >99 tracks - but it works well enough.


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## tonym (Jun 21, 2009)

I spend 2-3 hours in traffic Mon-Fri ...nice head unit with mp3/usb, ipod makes it seem short.

every thing is stelth cept the head unit..


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## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

Kenwood DNX 9140.. I want all the bells and whistles..


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

cda-9887


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## Kellyo77 (Dec 5, 2009)

Just recently got my first in-dash dvd/screen. Pioneer AVH-P4000DVD. It was very very inexpensive so I figured I would give it a shot. The HU I took out was a Kenwood Excelon X679. More than a few years old and had not one single problem with it. Sounded great not to mention was mildly adjustable. 
Pioneer is still growing on me.


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## s4turn (Jun 17, 2009)

w200 alpine + h701 proc


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## blindbug (Jun 14, 2007)

This is a zombie post... it just keeps coming back from the grave... hell, when I voted on this poll, I probably had a different car!

I've always replaced my stock head unit... but with my new car I decided to take a second look at the factory unit. It's a Bose unit, manufactured by Clarion, and has a flat balanced signal going to the amp in the back. With that in mind, I pieced together a harness that plugs right into the factory deck but gives me a pair of Zapco Symbilink pigtails out the back. Has worked great so far, to the point that I'm pondering whether to even get an aftermarket unit. I wish the voltage was a bit higher, but if I add a Zapco line processer in the signal, I can bump my signal voltage and get a great handle on what is being fed to the amplifiers.


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## SQinaLAC (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm currently using the stock Bose (non nav.) h/u. I've got plans to upgrade to the DNX9140, but i can't seem to find accurate Bose h/u replacement info online. Metra makes a bypass harness but I'm not sure if it would be better to go DIY.


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## Catman (Mar 18, 2008)

Aftermarket only. I won't buy a vehicle that does not allow the use of an aftermarket HU.

>^..^<


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## Ultimateherts (Nov 13, 2006)

I use my stock radio. I drive an '08 Chevy Equinox and have a PCH8 to my amps. I am in the process of adding a pac ipod accesory so that I can use my ipod and have HD radio reception. I like the clean look of the stock radio, but that's just my opinion.


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## SQ Monte (Sep 12, 2009)

Aftermarket for me


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## disturbedklownz (Feb 19, 2008)

alpine w505 +h701


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## disturbedklownz (Feb 19, 2008)

hey blindbug,nice to see someone in Louisville on here.I work in Middletown


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## audiogodz1 (Jan 5, 2010)

audiogodz1 said:


> I did change my head unit, but you can hardly tell.


Updated since I erased that photo many moons ago 

YouTube - Mcintosh

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ble-din-modified-rcas-amber-illumination.html


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## tyort1 (Jun 2, 2010)

Current setup is stock. About to change that....


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## UT-Driven (Sep 16, 2010)

I have an older Alpine unit for the time being. With the MS-8 and other projects of its kind, it looks like you can stay stock and have a decent system.

Doug


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## Thunderplains (Sep 6, 2009)

P5200BT and P99RS.. Stock sucked.


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## ZAKOH (Nov 26, 2010)

I am noticing that these days there are less and less reasons to remove the stock HU. Even low spec versions of Mazda's CUVs come with audio system that's integrated with the central computer, and have compatibility with mp3 CDs and portable players. One definitely will not improve upon this with a $100 cheapie HU from Walmart. And high end factory systems come with 8 way speaker setup, decent amp, and other goodness. The only thing I could add is a good trunk sub. But yeah, if you have an older car, I'd replace the HU absolutely, and buy an amp.


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## mdechgan (Dec 16, 2010)

I will always use an aftermarket HU unless the stock one is integrated into the car wiring, dashboard, a/c controls in some way.


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## Sjobey (Jan 11, 2011)

its worth it for the rca hookups alone...


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## Hertz5400LincolnLS (Mar 29, 2010)

I currently run an LC7i and a Three.1 to integrate into the factory NAV/THX system in my Lincoln LS. While I am satisfied with the sound, I'm curious to swap it all for my 8454. I'm pretty confident I will notice a difference but I'm still on the fence. I like having the factory look, 6-disc in-dash, and steering wheel controls.


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## joelv (Jan 8, 2011)

In my case, I first went with the HU. Traded the OEM 6 disc changer HU for USB. Got all MP3 on a SD card then upgraded to a small HD.

I bought a high quality HU and my OEM speakers had a second life. I went 18 months like that. Lately, I changed the front speakers and OEM tweeters for some comps and added an amplifier. Next step will be to add a sub. Happy to have spent the $$$ for an higher end HU. It provides me with 5V rca outputs, 13 band parametric EQ, Time Alignement and much more with 18 pure watts RMS per channel.

For me, this sequence was the perfect way to go and I would do it like that again.


Good luck.


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## Hertz5400LincolnLS (Mar 29, 2010)

ZAKOH said:


> I am noticing that these days there are less and less reasons to remove the stock HU.


I couldn't agree with you more. The THX in my LS kept me out of the aftermarket car audio scene for 4 years! I had aftermarket in all 5 vehicles prior from 16-24 and never thought I'd quit or take a break from this hobby. Then I got bored with stock and decided to upgrade.


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## phampau (Sep 20, 2010)

My kenwood kdc-x794 is a good bang for the buck headunit.


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## stealthninja (Apr 26, 2011)

sticking with stock HU for now, due to the fact of it requires a $175 additional harness for the chims , safty warnings and onstar. But probably around tax time I will upgrade to aftermarket HU. Looking forward to it, will get some Hertz comps in the front soon though


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## val69 (Apr 7, 2011)

I'm keeping my headunit (2008 CLS63) but I'm trying to pick between Bitone or MS8. I like MS8 because I can keep my Logic 7. I like Bitone because it's more advance. What a guy to do!


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## mires (Mar 5, 2011)

I replace the deck first. Every time.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

In my Honda, I replaced it with an aftermarket one.

In my M3, I will keep the oem navigation. No aftermarket headunit will look good in the dash.

I would think car stereo manufacturer's would learn and start making oem looking aftermarket headunits. It would be a hot seller for people that have nicer cars that want the OEM look, but the aftermarket features!


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## wannabesq (Apr 13, 2011)

The older the car, the more an aftermarket head unit is needed. Newer cars are getting harder and harder to remove the factory head unit, while providing better quality audio at the same time. I checked on getting a 2012 Mustang, and it would cost between $300-$600 just for the wiring harness and dash kit... 

What I think I'll do in my next car, is to pick a car that has a somewhat standard and straightforward dash layout, and do a full deck swap. Or, find a car with room for an additional DIN unit, and leave the stock as is, feeding the aux in of the aftermarket deck. Or just put a Piddy Pad Deuce into the dash...


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## St. Dark (Mar 19, 2008)

val69 said:


> I'm keeping my headunit (2008 CLS63) but I'm trying to pick between Bitone or MS8. I like MS8 because I can keep my Logic 7. I like Bitone because it's more advance. What a guy to do!


If you like the Logic7, you CAN keep it with a Bit One.


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## val69 (Apr 7, 2011)

I was told that if I go with Bitone I would need to use three amps. (sub,front,rears and then one for center) I have JL HD amps 600/4 and 750/1. I don't want to run three amps. Is that correct?


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## ikari2_2000 (Dec 30, 2010)

Just realized how old the original post was.


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## Razz2o4 (Jan 23, 2011)

Definately not. Running an Eclipse 726E


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## thgem72 (Sep 29, 2010)

I do, but the primary reason is that it will play lossless (WAV at least) from an iPod (and other external devices).


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

Planning on running stock on a 2008 Civic Si. The head unit I'm told sends a strong clean flat signal for oem. Any factory eq goes flat after a certain volume level I think.

Plus I have a rocking custom harness to send four differential-balanced channels to the amp.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## HHR Panel Man (May 20, 2011)

Aftermarket HU.

I put a Pioneer AVH-P4200DVD in my '08 Chevy HHR 2LT Panel.

It came with the pioneer 7 speaker system but all that is being replaced with Pioneer Stage 3 stuff.

Pioneer TS-D1720C 6.75-Inch D-Series 260-Watt Speaker Package
Pioneer TS-D1602R 6.5 Inch Two-Way Speakers with 260 Watts Max Power
Pioneer GM-D9500F Class-FD 4-Channel Bridgeable Amplifier 
Pioneer GM-D8500M Class-D Mono Amplifier with 1200 Watts Max. Power
Pioneer TS-W3002D4 12 In. Champion Series PRO Subwoofer with 3500 Watts

I used the lan 04 when I installed the avh-p4200 dvd head unit and everything works as it should with Just the head unit installed so far.

Need to figure out How to connect everything to Keep the chimes and onstar working.


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## blackknight87 (Jul 11, 2011)

For now i am using my stock headunit. I really didn't want to lose my steering wheel controls. Plus i have free sirius for another couple months on it. But eventually i would like to try put in a double din unit and have it hooked up with my steering wheel controls. if possible. 

oh and its a 2011 F150


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## SoulFly (Mar 15, 2011)

i'm using a pioneer usb4300 or something like that. i hate the stupid thing actually. screen does that annoying flashing between bright and dark backgrounds, the clock is really hard to see, volume knob is weird and well, i hate everything about it except for the usb port.


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## lanman31337 (May 16, 2011)

JVC KD-R900, JBL GTE422, Audiocontrol Epic160.


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## PottersField (Mar 18, 2011)

To be completely honest, if I could find a factory CD player for my Accord I might run it and use outboard processing, just for the added security of knowing most thieves would be less likely to pull a smash n grab if they saw a factory deck. That said, I use a Pioneer DEH-6300UB and while it's not the most high-end deck out there, it has plenty of features. My only complaint is not having a rear USB so there's always a cable or a thumb drive hanging off the faceplate.


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## bestbacon (Jul 19, 2011)

I feel so ashamed, i`m about to install a excelon x994 in my corolla. Didn`t have money to go any higher ._.


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## GoodyearJ (May 4, 2011)

The only vehicle I've ever owned that came with a premium stereo option was an 87 Cutlass. Premium systems then were nowhere near the quality of premium systems available now. Possibly because of this, the first upgrade I make to a new vehicle is a H/U. Every car I've owned has had an aftermarket unit. My current setup has a kenwood unit and I'm running an EQ just for fine tuning. The head unit only has a 3 channel EQ. I don't need navigation so I don't see the need, for myself, to purchase a top of the line head unit. I simply want a clean signal, adjustability, and pre outs.


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## killahsharksjc (Apr 30, 2009)

I use stock... my Acura TSX don't have the best options to put a aftermarket deck...


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## sqcomp (Sep 21, 2009)

I've got the integrated stock source from my car sitting in the garage.

@ Bestbacon - Don't feel bad, I've got a lowly Yaris and I'm using a P-01 and a Bit One. 

Got to...have...control...


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## stussycole (Apr 26, 2006)

I've had an aftermarket head in every car I've owned. I've also never owned a car that had an upgraded factory system or a head unit that integrated other car functions. Plus, with my current cars, I wanted ipod and bluetooth so aftermarket was a must.


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## ALMO (Apr 29, 2007)

I have used aftermarket in every vehicle so far but...
now I have a 2011 silverado ltz crew with the bose "premium" system and I want to upgrade but I like all the oem features: xm radio, steeringwheel, backup warning (for the wife), bluetooth, onstar, etc.

I would love to find a way to use my helix amp and dls comps and re-sub while using the oem hu as only a preamp for the usb and just burn my tunes as flac or wma on a stick.

Can anyone out there provide info or direction to info, please?


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## pajeroklassik (Aug 24, 2011)

I always use aftermarket head units.
I have the following decks as of the moment:
• Nak CD700
• Alpine 7878R
• Alpine 9855
And I'll probably be in the hunt for a CD700II


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## mears (Jul 27, 2009)

No headunit at all (carputer).


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## gokiburi (Jul 20, 2007)

No shame Bestbacon - I've got the Excelon X991 in a Honda Fit. The best part about buying a cheap car is being able to get whatever HU you want without having to feel guilty about yanking the stock unit.


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## mullenmullen (May 1, 2010)

changed out the "bose" system in my 04 ss silverado and added a pioneer p99rs.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

I run the stock TL deck. There just doesn't seem to be much to gain by going aftermarket, plus the navi uses a chip built into the HU. A couple people have successfully removed this chip and integrated it but it's way too much work. The factory HU is surprisingly good. I pull the signal after the HU, before the stock amp. GN has an older Sony CD player.


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## quakerroatmeal (Aug 21, 2008)

If only I could use an aftermarket deck. It makes everything so much more simple..


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## charlesg35 (Oct 17, 2011)

I have a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the factory Alpine Head unit, built in hard drive, Cd, DVD, and Nav. I just installed the MS8, Mac 6 channel amp, Morel Supremo 6's, Piccolo tweets & Focal Sub. My previous car has the Premier P9 head unit and processor, I believe the SQ in the Jeep is so close that I wouldn't consider replacing it.


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## Bud&Music (Jan 19, 2012)

Yeah but when i bought my car there was no head unit 

Right now i have the JVC Arsenal KD-A725 installed


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## duro78 (Dec 24, 2011)

SoulFly said:


> i'm using a pioneer usb4300 or something like that. i hate the stupid thing actually. screen does that annoying flashing between bright and dark backgrounds, the clock is really hard to see, volume knob is weird and well, i hate everything about it except for the usb port.


I installed it and took it out a week later had some nice features but the sq was subpar, I prefer volume knobs and it can't skip songs while making audio adjustments without going to main menu. No matter what the sound just didn't do it for me. Took a big loss on this one. It looked awesome in the dash though. I've used double dins for seven years its hard going back to a single but sq comes first

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## duro78 (Dec 24, 2011)

SoulFly said:


> i'm using a pioneer usb4300 or something like that. i hate the stupid thing actually. screen does that annoying flashing between bright and dark backgrounds, the clock is really hard to see, volume knob is weird and well, i hate everything about it except for the usb port.


I installed it and took it out a week later had some nice features but the sq was subpar, I prefer volume knobs and it can't skip songs while making audio adjustments without going to main menu. No matter what the sound just didn't do it for me. Took a big loss on this one. It looked awesome in the dash though. I've used double dins for seven years its hard going back to a single but sq comes firstfirst

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## Metal Guru (Jun 14, 2011)

Nope. I used to be a big believer in aftermarket decks until last year. It all started when I began listening to Sirius XM radio in a friend's car. It was soon after that I remembered that my car's factory head unit came with an XM tuner built-in, so I decided to replace my aftermarket deck with it using a quality LOC. I've been happy ever since! I just love the appearance and feel of the factory unit. I've been recently kicking around the idea of modding the factory HU to provide true line-level outputs. Doing that would make things PERFECT 


The pros to using a factory deck to me are:

- doesn't stand out like a sore thumb
- 99% of the time, thieves won't break in for a factory deck
- "classic" analog volume control that feels solid
- superior radio reception


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## Swanson's Performance (Mar 27, 2011)

Yes, technically- I use an Eclipse CD1200, which is a double-DIN unit that is decidedly anti- flashy and looks very much like a factory unit. It is not visibly branded nor have a model number, but has USB input, aux in, and direct iPod/iPhone control. It will charge the iDevice and anything plugged in via USB at the same time. 14Wx4 RMS and two sets of 2.7v RCAs are not phenomenal, but workable, especially when using amps with pass-thru RCAs. I might just move to a single 5 or 6 channel amp as well, the HiFonics Zeus Zxi 60.4 + 1k has caught my eye. Adjustable illumination matches my dash to avoid attention, and ESN completes making it useless if anyone does recognize it. Sound performance is not quite on par with the high-end Eclipse units of the past, but what is? Overall, for $85 shipped with IPC-109 iPhone cable it's worth every penny over a stock HU. 8.5/10


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## rallypoint_1 (Oct 26, 2011)

Currently using an old Kenwood KRC-405 headunit but have a new Kenwood KDC-X995 waiting in the garage. My old unit just doesnt have the basic modern features that most new units have.


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## Holmanjp (Jan 31, 2012)

If the 3sixty.3 ever becomes available, I'll probably stick with FHU's


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## 02TurboA4 (Jun 21, 2007)

I've always ran an aftermarket HU until my current car. My most recent HU was the Alpine F1 DVI 9990 & PXI H990, which I just recently sold. Wish it would have worked in the new car but not without extensive modification to the car. This time around will be Factory HU / Audi MMI system.


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## Flipx99 (Jan 13, 2012)

I am currently using a stock HU. I wanted to keep it because all the buttons or whatever that works with it. 

Turning into a PITA install and may go aftermarket.


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 15, 2012)

My HU is packed with features. Bluetooth phone integration, SD Card, 6 changer CD, BT Audio, plus its slick and perfectly suited to my interior (VW Premium VIII on a CC) So I decided to keep it and put an Audison Bit 10 off the back of it, instead of replacing.


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## evildude88 (Aug 11, 2011)

I currently use a head unit, but I know I could easily get audiophile grade sound out of a factory stereo using a processor and tweaking.

For me though it more has to do with the fact that I'm quite new to car audio. I've been dealing with the product for about a year now, and that's all my experience thus far. I dove in very head first with my first stereo (as you can tell by my sig), but I'm very glad I did get the aftermarket HU because it has taught me an immense amount about sound.

Of course there were other ways I could go but for what I paid, definitely couldn't go wrong!


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## cruzinbill (Jul 15, 2011)

Aftermarket but only because its a roadtrip car so I have dvd.nav. It doesnt get used for any tuning. Have a bitone for that.


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## CaptainCrunch (Feb 14, 2012)

I have a 2011 Honda Accord that came with the permium HU with 6 disk changer, bluetooth, USB, and hands free controls so I left it in, and I like the stock look any way. Of course I put in a Hertz HDP 5 amp, LC6i, and Alpine speakers Type R 60c up front, and 60 coaxils in the rear with a SWD 1043 Suboofer.


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## gckless (Oct 11, 2012)

80PRS for me. Was already an aftermarket lower end Kenwood when I got it, but that thing wasn't cutting it.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Aftermarket. Got my Alpine 9855 for $5 and I'll never switch it out if I can help it. It's got everything I could ever need.


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## RNBRAD (Oct 30, 2012)

I guess it depends on the car and how much the OEM is integrated into the functions of the car. My newest car a W212 Benz E550 there is just no way to replace the head unit. Also the factory head unit offers features way beyond anything aftermarket can touch. The only thing lacking in the car I have found was the bass output and high end extension. So I replaced the tweets with LPG's and tapped into the low level input signal of the rear amp (much cleaner) and wired an Alpine class D amp and fabricated a custom box with an IDQ 12. Not too far off the sound of my comp system. If a person's OEM system has external amps, should be able to tap into the low level inputs before the amps, wire in some RCA's and walla. Exactly what I did. I initially tapped into the speaker outs of the factory amp for signal but just not the clean sound I was looking for.


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## SaturnSL1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Alpine decks all the way, **** factory junk.


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## Design (Mar 29, 2011)

Wow thread revival lol. I'll add my experience...

2009 Mazdaspeed3 with Bose. The weakest link in modern Mazdas is the Bose amp/processor, followed closely by the paper speakers. The HU is actually manufactured by Sanyo or Clarion depending on the vehicle model.

My goal was to assemble a basic system, evaluate its potential, and then purchase either an aftermarket HU or processor. So I retained the OEM HU and added a couple low profile amps, components and sub. The results? Not bad. My biggest gripes were 1) low voltage from the line level outputs of the OEM HU, and 2) lack of central processing. That was enough to warrant an aftermarket HU.

I now have the Pioneer AVH-X8500BHS matched to a Japanese integration kit. Looks and feels OEM. Came with everything I wanted (basic EQ, time alignment, detachable face, HDMI, and Pandora/iPod/Android integration). Couldn't be happier. Couple crappy photos:


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## nsaspook (May 19, 2009)

Still running the 2008 Kenwood DDX-812 in the car with a MTX sub and Alpine center. Nothing special but 1000% better than OEM.
av install - a set on Flickr
car eq - a set on Flickr
alpine center - a set on Flickr


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## helpmeplease (Oct 6, 2012)

I used to think that aftermarket automatically meant better, but unless it has active crossovers or something super high end, it's probably not much better than a stock unit.

My stock unit has a 3.5mm on the front, and that's all I need. Some of them have USB too.

Aftermarket units are over rated and more likely to attract thieves. I can almost guarantee that you will notice no difference in SQ if you swap a stock for an aftermarket unit, unless it has crazy good features like active crossovers or something like that. If not, then it's just eye candy


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

If by overrated you mean they typically have better output section and don't clip then yes, aftermarket units are almost always overrated.


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## helpmeplease (Oct 6, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> If by overrated you mean they typically have better output section and don't clip then yes, aftermarket units are almost always overrated.


Thats funny, because both alpine single din units ive owned clipped at much lower volume than my stock unit. 

So i will bring up my previous statement about *special* features, and not about their lack of basic function.

You sound like a rep for a head unit dealer. 

I bet you sell stinger crap meters and bash superior ebay meters.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

helpmeplease said:


> Thats funny, because both alpine single din units ive owned clipped at much lower volume than my stock unit.
> 
> So i will bring up my previous statement about *special* features, and not about their lack of basic function.
> 
> ...


Which units were they? Alpine hasn't made units that clip in years. Maybe a decade or more. 

What??? I haven't been I retail in 12 years. Hahahahahahaha

I'm not saying all OEM HUs suck, but a lot of them do.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

19 posts and swinging a big one I see... gosh, I wonder why I haven't been here that much.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

How loud it is when it clips is really irrelevant. 

How much voltage is out when it clips? 

How far into the volume range are you? 

That's the context that's required. If you're telling me that the Alpine decks provided less voltage than the stock decks, that might be true - but it's a null value. The stock decks often send 9V speaker into an amp, rather than a preamp signal.


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## helpmeplease (Oct 6, 2012)

quality_sound said:


> Which units were they? Alpine hasn't made units that clip in years. Maybe a decade or more.
> 
> What??? I haven't been I retail in 12 years. Hahahahahahaha
> 
> I'm not saying all OEM HUs suck, but a lot of them do.


cdm-9801 and cdm-9886 (I think the last one was CDM - it had the option for imprint and the 9887 had imprint built in)

I was using the RCA outputs on both alpine units.

With the stock unit, I have a single cache cloc'd with RCA splitters at the ends into 2 amplifiers. (one sub amp, one crossover, and then into the highs amp) cloc'd set to 4v rca output. And I am using the front panel 3.5mm in the stock unit (2010 HHR)



VP Electricity said:


> 19 posts and swinging a big one I see... gosh, I wonder why I haven't been here that much.


Yes, post count is directly relevant to my knowledge or experience.

Next time I go into a seemingly reputable car audio shop, I am going to ask how many posts they have on DIYMA to verify their ability and legitimacy.




VP Electricity said:


> How loud it is when it clips is really irrelevant.
> 
> How much voltage is out when it clips?
> 
> ...


I do not have the tools to properly test all of that. I go by ear.

As said above, alpine units were with the RCA outputs, stock unit is using the speaker outputs into a line output converter/line driver - cache cloc'd

I am guessing that both alpine units only put out 2v pre-outs. Which would mean that even when splitting the RCA outputs on the cache cloc'd, both the sub amp and crossover/highs amp are still getting the 4v output I set it to, which would explain why the stock unit seems to be better.

With the 9886, it would start to take away treble at about 24 clicks on the volume knob. It was very odd. (I don't remember what the max was, I think it was 32 or so)

With the 9801, well, I haven't used that in a while, but the RCA output was definitely lower and I think that explains it.

And this was with the highs amp with zero gain, which is exactly how I've always had it and it's still loud as hell. 

With the stock unit, I can get it to about 90% before it starts to audibly distort with just the stock 6.5" mids (I have the stock mids on the head unit, sub and tweeters on amplifiers after the LOC and a crossover)

I guess it all ties down to the pre-out voltage. Now, as I've explained, a line driver and line output converter will handle this and eliminate the need for an aftermarket head unit. It depends on other features that stock units don't have. If your only concern is 3.5mm or USB input, most new cars already come with it or have an option for it. 

Back to my main point: If you want something special like imprint/active crossovers - then YES, you should get an aftermarket head unit with those features. 

Honestly, the only reason I would get an aftermarket unit is to get another double din touch screen with navigation. Other wise I don't see a point at all.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

By ear, as in 'What We Hear'?


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## helpmeplease (Oct 6, 2012)

t3sn4f2 said:


> By ear, as in 'What We Hear'?


I'm sure you've heard this before, but I have very good hearing.

And looking over that page: 



> Studies show you can play the identical track, on identical equipment, two different times, and the odds are good people will hear significant differences if they’re expecting a difference


When I listen to other peoples systems, I don't expect it to be different. I go in blind. It will sound how it sounds, no matter what. Unless it's in the SAME vehicle with the SAME air space being taken up, it WILL sound different, period.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

The 9886 doesn't turn down the treble at higher volumes. That's not clipping. That's either a faulty unit (HU, amp, or speaker) or an improperly set up gain structure. That is NOT how a normally functioning 9886 works. The 9886 does not clip.


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## Earzbleed (Feb 10, 2013)

Hell yair!! My oem HU didn't have a usb port and wouldn't play .wav files.
Also had no time alignment, filters or 24-bit DAC.
I didn't have a choice anyway. The standard Ford HU's hiss like a python when you put an amp on them.


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## VP Electricity (Apr 11, 2009)

helpmeplease said:


> I do not have the tools to properly test all of that. I go by ear.


Well, then, we HAVE determined the legitimacy of your statements. You don't know what you're talking about. 

Have a nice day. Try being nice instead of an ass to someone who has helped many more people than you could have, and you might learn something. 

You might be interested in learning that I have no problem with aftermarket head units. I do have a problem with your voodoo method of drawing conclusions, though.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

Since we're derailed...



> With the 9886, it would start to take away treble at about 24 clicks on the volume knob. It was very odd. (I don't remember what the max was, I think it was 32 or so)


When I had my CDA-9887 I remember asking about this same phenomenon. Apparently they built in a circuit, that when triggered, would suppress the range of output that was in clipping.

i.e. If I went to the EQ and added 6+ decibels through PEQ or GEQ, that would inadvertently send that range into clipping once the volume was turned up, it would suppress that frequency range.

I forgot where I read that. I'm not sure if that was an Alpine tech or not. Either way, it's built into most of their decks. That's why they don't clip. It was also the first time I realized I wanted volume specific EQ


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## SkipNJ (Mar 12, 2009)

If my stock HU could read USB stick, I would've left it in place for the stock look. Alas, yesterday I bought an 80prs


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

I800C0LLECT said:


> Since we're derailed...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Another possibility is the dynamic loudness feature built into all modern head units, that tappers off the bass/treble boost as you get to the end of the volume range. That can be interpreted as a reduction in treble even though it's actually a return to flat.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

helpmeplease said:


> When I listen to other peoples systems, I don't expect it to be different. I go in blind. *It will sound how it sounds, no matter what.* Unless it's in the SAME vehicle with the SAME air space being taken up, it WILL sound different, period.



I suggest actually reading the whole article.


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## I800C0LLECT (Jan 26, 2009)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Another possibility is the dynamic loudness feature built into all modern head units, that tappers off the bass/treble boost as you get to the end of the volume range. That can be interpreted as a reduction in treble even though it's actually a return to flat.


Definitely another explanation!! I do remember trying it out by maxing out my EQ. I only heard the taper, whether bass or trable or mid-range somewhere, when I did max out the EQ. Otherwise, leaving the EQ alone it didn't seem to manifest.

So I was unsure. Also, when it was maxed, not all recordings had the same effect. I presumed it was because their recording volumes differed and chalked it up to clipping. Im not the brightest bulb I just know it didn't happen all the time  I only ever noticed because I hated how much my response fluctuated with the volume knob turning. So I ended up tuning based on how loud I wanted my music to play back.


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## Design (Mar 29, 2011)

helpmeplease said:


> I used to think that aftermarket automatically meant better, but unless it has active crossovers or something super high end, it's probably not much better than a stock unit.
> 
> My stock unit has a 3.5mm on the front, and that's all I need. Some of them have USB too.
> 
> Aftermarket units are over rated and more likely to attract thieves. I can almost guarantee that you will notice no difference in SQ if you swap a stock for an aftermarket unit, unless it has crazy good features like active crossovers or something like that. If not, then it's just eye candy


That's a bit too generalized IMO. I find that many OEM decks have a high/low frequency roll-off to promote speaker life (let alone volume-based signal processing). Bose among others is notorious for that.

If your assumption is that all users will install some level of basic aftermarket processing, then yes a factory deck can be pretty damn good. But even my 5 year old daughter prefers listening to music in my car vs. the wife's at low volume. Claims, "the lady voices buzz too much" lol.

I know this article and others have been floating around DIYMA for some time. And I'm not discounting the results. But frequency response is a huge component that is mysteriously absent from many of these assessments:
http://www.davidnavone.com/heresHow/files/OEM vs Aftermarket Decks21.pdf


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## Earzbleed (Feb 10, 2013)

Mr. Navone never heard, or tested, my crappy oem head unit.


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## jt_buck (Jan 25, 2013)

Alpine 9887 here.


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## 63flip (Oct 16, 2013)

I don't think I've had a stock HU in a car last more than a week after I bought it. It's ALWAYS been the first thing to go! Being a bass head amp/subs come 2nd, components 3rd.


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## WestCo (Aug 19, 2012)

63flip said:


> I don't think I've had a stock HU in a car last more than a week after I bought it. It's ALWAYS been the first thing to go! Being a bass head amp/subs come 2nd, components 3rd.


YES!

Rip that nonsense out asap...
Source is where the "magic" starts


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## theoldguy (Nov 17, 2009)

I run an aftermarket HU but my car is a 2003 and was very easy to do so. Some of these newer vehicles integrate a lot of the on board computer what nots in to the stock radio making it very difficult to replace.


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## New2SQ (Dec 9, 2013)

I run aftermarket in mine since it is an older vehicle. If I had a newer that had all the bell and whistles I would keep the stock one tho and get a DSP.


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## rockytophigh (Apr 16, 2008)

This seems like a good place to ask this. I have always replaced the head units until now. My question is that my stock head unit has crossovers built into it from what I can gather. If I take the signal from the factory amp, to the DSP, will those signals already be crossed? 

Thanks so much in advance for any help.


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## mikechec9 (Dec 1, 2006)

No choice but to run fac HU, as it's truly the head unit of the car's functions. Smooth and exellent sq, but based on my setups from prior rides with aftermarkets it could likely stand to improve in the way of dynamics. But again, it's a fairly moot point.


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## RandyJ75 (Dec 4, 2006)

In my experience, just adding an aftermarket HU to a stock system will greatly improve the sound of the said system.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

RandyJ75 said:


> In my experience, just adding an aftermarket HU to a stock system will greatly improve the sound of the said system.


It's the increase in power you're hearing. 

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


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## OU Alex (Feb 9, 2014)

Unless your driving a high end car like a Bentley or Ferrari, etc I believe its required


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## bi_a_op (May 12, 2013)

aftermarket becasue it has a 3 way dsp


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## sbcaprice305 (Jan 17, 2012)

I will only run Pioneers unless a *really* good deal pops up on something else. I will also only use double dins w/screen if the application allows. Must have a decent eq and hp/lp filters at a minimum.

I despise single din pop-up screens. Ugliest things ever.


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## Boomintahoe (Apr 1, 2009)

Currently running a old Alpine 9835...one of Alpines bests imo....and sometimes I see the pricetag I bought years ago on ebay.


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## cerwinvega_fan (Nov 9, 2010)

80prs.


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## djbreal87 (Jun 24, 2012)

Pioneer AVH4000BH


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## Wja96 (Jan 14, 2013)

On most modern European cars it's impossible to remove the stock "head unit" because there is no "head unit" to remove. The new Audi TT only has the screen in front of the driver and that controls everything. Modern Audi, VW, SEAT and Skoda are going that way and so are Mercedes with their COMAND system and the plug-in Becker navigation units. 

DSP into aftermarket amplification and speakers will become more and more the only way to go for better sound. My last three cars (Audi TT, VW Touareg and Audi A6 allroad) have all had to have Audison Bit products fitted to get the stock noise into some sort of reasonable shape for amplification and then the standard amplifiers, speakers and subwoofer swapped out to get the best sound possible given the source available.

Audi/VW/Porsche use Alpine as their audio supplier so the standard sound isn't too shocking, but everything can always be better!


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## Wja96 (Jan 14, 2013)

OU Alex said:


> Unless your driving a high end car like a Bentley or Ferrari, etc I believe its required


Bentley's NAIM system is very good (to my ears) but I've yet to hear anything decent from a Ferrari sound system. They are genuinely shocking. But then anyone turning on the radio in a Ferrari wants shooting anyway!


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## percy072 (Feb 13, 2014)

I just switched from a Clarion nx501 DD to the 80prs...FINALLY getting some good sound. It would have been a PIA to use the OEM deck, the clarion was ok but very limited EQ. Going active also took it to a level that was not possible with OEM or clarion. Now I'm swapping between ID xs-65's and CDT HD M6 drivers (so far the CDT's are in the lead)

I had to get an aftermarket bezel to make it work...but pretty happy with it as well


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Wja96 said:


> On most modern European cars it's impossible to remove the stock "head unit" because there is no "head unit" to remove. The new Audi TT only has the screen in front of the driver and that controls everything. Modern Audi, VW, SEAT and Skoda are going that way and so are Mercedes with their COMAND system and the plug-in Becker navigation units.
> 
> DSP into aftermarket amplification and speakers will become more and more the only way to go for better sound. My last three cars (Audi TT, VW Touareg and Audi A6 allroad) have all had to have Audison Bit products fitted to get the stock noise into some sort of reasonable shape for amplification and then the standard amplifiers, speakers and subwoofer swapped out to get the best sound possible given the source available.
> 
> Audi/VW/Porsche use Alpine as their audio supplier so the standard sound isn't too shocking, but everything can always be better!


I hope Audi/VW gets iPod integration right if they go the route of not being able to replace the stock HU. I loathe the iPod integration on the RNS-315 in my 2013 GTI and it is coming out if I install a sound system in the GTI. When changing tracks, it cuts off the first second, or two, of the track that I switch to. Forget anything with gapless playback unless you like missing a second or two when switching between songs. The card reader is a little better, but it doesn't support lossless codecs which I think is a stupid implementation of a card reader. No wav files in 2013? Come on... Really? Finally, CDs are so 1998 that I refuse to waste time ripping and burning just to get decent audio out of the stock HU...


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## slowride (Jan 26, 2009)

ChrisB said:


> I hope Audi/VW gets iPod integration right if they go the route of not being able to replace the stock HU. I loathe the iPod integration on the RNS-315 in my 2013 GTI and it is coming out if I install a sound system in the GTI. When changing tracks, it cuts off the first second, or two, of the track that I switch to. Forget anything with gapless playback unless you like missing a second or two when switching between songs. The card reader is a little better, but it doesn't support lossless codecs which I think is a stupid implementation of a card reader. No wav files in 2013? Come on... Really? Finally, CDs are so 1998 that I refuse to waste time ripping and burning just to get decent audio out of the stock HU...



It only cuts the track if you skip around a playlist. If a playlist or album is played continuous then it doesn't skip. The early models with MDI had a software update to help with that. I thought my 2012 needed but it didn't. 

On a different note, the 2015 GTI has two upgraded radio options. Both have the main unit (disc drive, sd card reader, control module) in the glove box like the Touareg. They display has a capacitive touchscreen with proximity sensor. They also use MOST fiber optic to connect the main unit to the amp. I'll see next week when I go to training how the system operates.


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## Wja96 (Jan 14, 2013)

The RNS-315 is a very cheap piece of kit (Siemens I think) with pretty basic functionality. The better VAG group cars, like my Audi A6 and the Touareg mentioned above, have Alpine kit which is rather better than the stuff in the Golf. I think the old Golf is probably the last one you'll be able to change the head unit for an aftermarket double DIN unit (VAG even offer the Kenwood DNX520VBT because they are very aware that their own units are very poor indeed).

As for iPod integration, I think Apple have far more to answer for than any car manufacturer. They really seem to make it very hard for anyone to use their kit unless it's done in the hardest, most expensive way possible, for the consumer.


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## ChrisB (Jul 3, 2008)

Wja96 said:


> The RNS-315 is a very cheap piece of kit (Siemens I think) with pretty basic functionality. The better VAG group cars, like my Audi A6 and the Touareg mentioned above, have Alpine kit which is rather better than the stuff in the Golf. I think the old Golf is probably the last one you'll be able to change the head unit for an aftermarket double DIN unit (VAG even offer the Kenwood DNX520VBT because they are very aware that their own units are very poor indeed).
> 
> As for iPod integration, I think Apple have far more to answer for than any car manufacturer. They really seem to make it very hard for anyone to use their kit unless it's done in the hardest, most expensive way possible, for the consumer.


On the bright side, I more than likely won't be purchasing another VW due to my absolute hate for FWD vehicles. I thought I could learn to live with it as I have owned FWD vehicles before, and sadly, I must admit that I was wrong!


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## Wja96 (Jan 14, 2013)

Sometimes a car just isn't 'the one'.

On the upside, you can trade it in and get something else easily enough I'm sure.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

After some time with it, I have to say I believe the oem touchscreen in my Tacoma might do fairly well feeding my MS-8. I can tell its fairly clean and the speakers which would be replaced are the weakest link. It's a good sign that OEM's aren't total crap as they once were. Though I'd be feeding the processor speaker level signals, I'm going to try it and see how it rolls.


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## BEAVER (May 26, 2007)

Not anymore. In the past the head-unit was always the first thing I replaced. After my recent processor purchase, I doubt I'll ever replace a head-unit again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

BEAVER said:


> Not anymore. In the past the head-unit was always the first thing I replaced. After my recent processor purchase, I doubt I'll ever replace a head-unit again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Now to get all cylinders firing. Right?


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## BEAVER (May 26, 2007)

Babs said:


> Now to get all cylinders firing. Right?


4/5 of this thing is so badass that I cannot fathom how good 100% is going to be.


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## chuyler1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Been a while since I last posted here. I am once again working on a system that uses the factory radio. The Mazda CX-9 factory radio wasn't half bad sounding at moderate volumes but who listens at moderate volumes??? The JBL MS-8 I installed does a great job of taming the faux-bass curve as I like to call it and improved the factory speakers immensely...but again with limited output volume. Now I'm replacing all the speakers and going to decide afterward if I should bother with aftermarket amps. I'll need one for a subwoofer...but I might get by with 15w into 8" woofers in the doors for a while.

In the past I have actually hacked into the stereos and made my own pre-outs. I may do the same for the CX-9 so I can remove the amplifier from the signal path. I don't know how easy it is to do on this radio but when I pulled apart my Protege5 I was able to research all the chips on the board and found the one that handled pretty much all the audio output functions (volume,fade,balance,etc). A few hours of soldering and I had me a set of pre-outs directly off the chip.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

What about modified aftermarket? 

The factory premium deck in the Hummer doesn't even have an aux input!!! Ridiculous.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

Offering a girl from the nightclub a ride home in my van, $10 fuel..

The moment she discovers there's a pair of 12's under the bed in the back of my van, absolutely priceless


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## Weigel21 (Sep 8, 2014)

gstokes said:


> Offering a girl from the nightclub a ride home in my van, $10 fuel..
> 
> The moment she discovers there's a pair of 12's under the bed in the back of my van, absolutely priceless


So you need the help of a couple 12's under the bed? LOL


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

Weigel21 said:


> So you need the help of a couple 12's under the bed? LOL


No, actually I don't..

I'm thinking your favorite pickup line must be, "want some candy little girl ?"..

I bet you're not laughing nearly as hard as you were a moment ago..

Don't insult people unless you want the same kind of treatment..


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Factory HU here, but only because it's like a deeply-rooted cancer which would kill the patient if removed. On the other hand, I have a Mosconi AMAS2 which gives me the option of bypassing the factory system alltogether as a source.


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## Weigel21 (Sep 8, 2014)

gstokes said:


> No, actually I don't..
> 
> I'm thinking your favorite pickup line must be, "want some candy little girl ?"..
> 
> ...


Nope, it doesn't work, they usually run. 

Chloroform is where it's at. LOL


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

Weigel21 said:


> Nope, it doesn't work, they usually run.
> 
> Chloroform is where it's at. LOL


, thank-you for kind reply, it helped me to smile..


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## Weigel21 (Sep 8, 2014)

Glad to hear it cheered you up some. Hope life's not got you down so much that a little poking fun at your expense, even if it wasn't intended to get your blood boiling, gets to you all that easily. 

Me, I take pride in knowing no one can cut me down better than myself. 

Anyways, have a nice day.


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

andthelam said:


> This a DIY audio site, of course the majority of people here would have after- markets. OEM looks nice and all, but the need for good SQ and processing overcomes that OEM thing ten fold.


Actually - most stock CD players in modern cars are pretty solid. When fed into a capable DSP and then onto the amps....most people could not tell a difference.

Saying all stock HU's have **** SQ is nothing but a blanket statement. And the processing is pointless when the signal is corrected and fed into a powerful processor.

edit: wow. Just saw the date on the OP. LoL - in 2015 there are much better factory head units.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

The Toyota has a Basic Entune HU with 2way in front doors/dash, and 2 way in rear. (They also have a JBL version that has multiple speakers with sub that would have to have DSPfor most part).

I have the basic, I think I would gain from the signal being improved with DSP. I plan to use the JBL MS-8. I read some frustrations of needing to reboot. Being a slow 2007 tech, etc, But with prices being pretty low, I am considering it.

So I have the Basic Entune sound system/HU, and I plan to replace and use 2way in front doors and 2way in rear doors with a good amp to feed them (So I don't need the amp feature of the MS-8)

But reading a review response...
http://www.amazon.com/JBL-MS-8-Series-Digital-Processor/product-reviews/B003KN2TQ2/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_2?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=recent&reviewerType=all_reviews&formatType=all_formats&filterByStar=all_stars&pageNumber=2"](full thread here): 



"Why the hell would you need more than 8 INPUTS? Totally pointless - all you need is 2 full range inputs, the whole point is the MS8 flattens them and sends the correct frequencies to the correct channels - if you're using more than 4 inputs (FL, FR, RL, RR) you're passing in already DSP'd channels (e.g. from a factory Logic 7 system) and have completely misunderstood the purpose of this unit..."

I was wondering how this applied to my setup? I don't have center channel, and I read on the MS-8, if not using center channel setting I will have no Logic 7, which makes the sound adjustment and quality of processing much less than what I should be having.

Your thoughts and experiences?


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## SQLnovice (Jul 22, 2014)

If anyone knows how to replace the oem stereo in a 2014 acura mdx (non navigation) please pm. Your assistance will be greatly appreciated. Or if the oem stereo output a good signal to be fed into an MS8 or a Helix DSP, please let me know. Thanks


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## Cubdriver (May 8, 2015)

I'm in the process of adding an aftermarket head unit to my '14 Wrangler as the factory uconnect system sucks as far as an iPod interface goes, and the iPod is my usual signal source. Having the radio come blaring on when I start it up, then having to wait at least 20-30 seconds before switching to the iPod as a source (try to make the switch too soon and it gorks and resets, playing from the beginning rather than where it left off) got to be too annoying.

Folks on the Wrangler forum say it's set up that way to avoid thumping from the subwoofer when the ignition is turned on in vehicles with remote start when the remote start is used, but in my opinion if that's the case it's a pretty poor implementation and they should have been able to come up with a work around.

On the bright side, this will also add a backup camera which will be helpful at night with the tinted rear window, so in the grand scheme of things it's all for the good.

-Pat


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## michael92 (Apr 7, 2015)

Few weeks ago I put an 8100NEX in my 2011 Silvy. The stock navigation was just awful. Everything about it was so cheap. I cannot believe that is the best GM can do for 50K. I just can't believe it. 

Anyways it is okay apart from a few issues. I am hoping they actually release firmware to fix it. This setup wasn't exactly cheap.


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## Taylaone (Apr 21, 2015)

see these aftermarket stereo:
Seicane - Global Online Shopping for Car DVD Player Radio Nav,Car Accessories


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## subterFUSE (Sep 21, 2009)

I wish I could change my head units in my cars, but I haven't driven a car since the late 1990's that even had a removable head unit.

It seems like every modern car now integrates climate control, engine/transmissions control, NAV, Telematics, etc....

The MMI in my Audi is too critical to the functions of the car to remove it.

The iDrive in my BMW prior was the same way.


Fortunately, we do have the mObridge for BMW/Audi/Merc. While not perfect, it does give us a flat, stereo, optical digital signal to work with.


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## schicksal (Jul 31, 2015)

I think it would be kind of fun to run the stock head unit in my car to a DSP since it has a tape deck with some kind of line in for an optional CD changer but since I have no clue how to turn that CD changer line into an AUX input that's not about to happen.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

with 2014 Toyota HU I have the text to voice which is super nice. It vocally reads my texts so I dont have to, and the kids love it. It also takes a thumb drive reading just about any format. I have not tried it, but from someones report it also reads FLAC.

The HU is made by Pioneer, and the front channels have 1.9volts out, and rears channels are 2.8volts which is odd, but. Using a DSP 360.3, I'm very happy with the sound. It has the camera view also.

What I like is when I use a USB thumbdrive for music, it has a lot of options for searching, which is helpful.

Not sure how aftermarket browsing is off a memory stick?


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## 1996blackmax (Aug 29, 2007)

Changing out the stereo in my current car was not really an option for me. There are several non audio functions tied in with the system. Luckily its very easy to use & using my iPhone with it is very easy as well. I occasionally use my thumb drive with it & if I'm waiting around I can also watch movies on it. This was the first time that I haven't run an after market HU, & I'm very happy with my setup at this point.


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## schicksal (Jul 31, 2015)

Well a funny thing happened yesterday... the stupid hook that keeps the faceplate from tilting down on our Pioneer broke yesterday, then I discovered how to add an AUX jack to the stock head unit from 1992 so there's a good chance I'm going back to that. Great timing.


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## Babs (Jul 6, 2007)

subterFUSE said:


> Fortunately, we do have the mObridge for BMW/Audi/Merc. While not perfect, it does give us a flat, stereo, optical digital signal to work with.



I wish more cars had this capability actually with the digital signal. 

Having heard your Audi, the source signal sounded pretty doggone perfect to me. What's not perfect about it? I imagine if it doesn't send volume data that can complicate matters a bit. 


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DDfusion (Apr 23, 2015)

They have some nice ford sync capable HUs now but no dash kits for me. 
My stock HU is fine for now, I guess it has to be


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

you'll have a day and night difference in responses with people who purchased a new car in the past 3 years vs before. So one has to take that the built in OEM systems now make it hard to replace. At least you may loose some features or display readings of the car.

For example 2014 and up Toyota systems have 

*voice command (which really doesn't work for the majority of people)/ Useless
*text to voice which I love, when it was working, need to check the settings./ Great feature when working!
*MPG graphs and read outs that give you a history and projected MPG, etc./ The speedo dash display also shows most of this.
*lighting control options for blinkers, inside lights, and other functions./ Can be done using software or changed from dealer, or a small device you purchase.

Some have nav and other apps built in.

So IF these worked without an issue, it would be even harder to justify a change, BUT MANY Toyota owners, particularly with JBL systems at least in the Highlander have been complaining about the functionality of the system as well as a very low level of sound quality. 

Even with these situations, people find it hard to swap out, including me. If I could plug in a decent Pioneer and hear a significant difference in sound, I would not hesitate to change it out. But my OEM unit is made by Pioneer, so I'm not sure if the difference would be great/?


So if the car owner has a pre 2012 OEM stereo, it would be a "no brainer" most of the time to swap it out. there are some designs that make it very hard


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## omnibus (Feb 20, 2015)

Phil Indeblanc said:


> you'll have a day and night difference in responses with people who purchased a new car in the past 3 years vs before. So one has to take that the built in OEM systems now make it hard to replace. At least you may loose some features or display readings of the car.
> 
> For example 2014 and up Toyota systems have
> 
> ...


Pioneer makes some cheap stuff too though. I once took apart an OEM HU by Pioneer and it reeked of downtown China alleyways but it was from an older car. I always assumed that a good processor would be able to rectify the SQ would it not?


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

Using the rf 3603, I am very happy with it.


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## lpreston (Dec 29, 2006)

I bought an Android unit off Ali. Needed a software update when it locked up, but ok after that. First mod.


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## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

omnibus said:


> Pioneer makes some cheap stuff too though. I once took apart an OEM HU by Pioneer and it reeked of downtown China alleyways but it was from an older car. I always assumed that a good processor would be able to rectify the SQ would it not?



It's not that make cheap stuff, it's that their clients WANT cheap stuff. Even their "entry-level" Pioneer branded stuff is better than the stuff Toyota asks for. If they wanted better units, Pioneer would supply it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

So is the volts out and the flatness of the signal the 2 indications of good vs bad?

Front channels are 1.9volts rears are 2.8volts. Signal is pretty flat with a couple dips that are corrected using the DSP.


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## Duncanbullet (Sep 19, 2013)

whoops....


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## jcmusika (Aug 14, 2015)

I have a corolla 94, new acquired with stock radio. after lurking around here and on a limited budget, i got a Pioneer MVH560BT, i had no need for a CD player, upgrading to this unit opened up possibility to growth and expansion. Ultimatly, i am in the process of getting a minidsp, I already have JL JX amps and Pioneer amps for subs. i want to to get my feet wet with active setups and this MVH model will allow me w/o having to spend a lot


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## mustangiimatt (Aug 29, 2015)

My stock head unit in my F150 would still be there if Sync hadn't sucked so badly. I would've added a processor and equalizer instead (or _possibly_ gone with one of the Sync-compatible head units).

But Sync sucked, and the stock speakers (except the tweeters) sucked, so I put a Pioneer in the dash and Infinitys in the doors. The stock tweeters bit the dust about two months later, so I bought a set of Hertz from another member here, and all has been wonderful since.


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## Phil Indeblanc (May 27, 2015)

I EAT MY WORDS "I am very happy with it"

So from the stock system to an all new system EXCEPT the HU was a HUGE upgrade, and I WAS very happy with it.

Then the more I listened and then over the few days I realized I was only comparing to the improvement and not the SQ. Also my home system sounded quite different (yet expected to a degree).

Then I thought it might be the speakers, and did all kinds of research....
today, I had the dash out and plugged the aftermarket HU in, and its a MAJOR difference.
No comparison! Wow...all this time...I was deaf and now I hear!


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