# 2019 Honda Civic Hatchback Sport



## ErinH

I initially planned to wait until the build was complete before posting this but have decided to go ahead and make this an "in progress" build log and update it as it goes along. So let's get on with the show! 


*The Car:*

After owning my previous car, a 2006 Civic Sedan LX, for 13 years and putting just over 250k miles on it, I finally upgraded. Yea!

(link to old build log here) 

The new car is a 2019 Honda Civic Hatchback Sport (non-touring edition). I looked at and test drove quite a few cars. I really liked a couple but ultimately landed on this Civic for the following reasons:


I like hatchbacks. And, they are just easier to get bass right in, IME. 

The gas mileage. I drive 80 miles round trip each day.

We already own a 2018 CR-V so I didn't really need a larger car for family stuff. I just need a good car that has a decent platform for aftermarket audio, enough space for me and my family to make quick trips around town, and something I could see myself still driving 10 years from now.

I think it looks pretty sharp. 

It’s a budget friendly vehicle and leaves me enough money to cover the audio stuff. 

It's fun to drive. It isn’t the world's fastest car but you have to remember I'm coming from a 2006 civic with 250k miles on it. So, this thing is almost like a race car to me. It's got some nice speed, takes corners like a champ... I won't be driving it like a madman but just being able to finally merge without fearing my engine is going to fall out from the workload it's under is a big improvement. 



Here’s some pictures of the car the day I got it:


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## ErinH

*Audio and Install Goals:*

The goal for this system is pretty simple: a _relatively _stock appearance.

Before I get too far in to the details, let me give some perspective here…

I’ve been around this hobby for a good while. I’ve had a very “extreme” build for a long time and I’ve had a system that sounds quite good and gets stupid loud, if I say so myself. I’ve also seen and heard many incredible vehicles running the gamut from extreme to rather stock installs. Some installs are easier to tune “out of the box” than others. Some offer things others can’t. But, for the most part, what I’ve experienced is that there has really never been a single defining characteristic to what makes one system sound fantastic other than a) a good install, b) an understanding of the equipment and limitations/implications of the gear/install and c) a good tune based on a & b. 

When I think back to my favorite car audio systems as a whole package (sound + aesthetic), the cars that come to mind for me are: Kirk Proffitt’s Acura TL, Jason Bertholomey’s BRZ and Michael Myers' Scion. None have "extreme" builds. Myers has dash pods but it's nothing crazy. All have/had door mounted midbass and a (relatively) understated yet elegant install. There’s nothing that stands out, cosmetically, in a way that draws attention to itself. Yet, they all sound incredible. They just have great tonality and an incredibly enjoyable fun factor. It's like you get in and the speakers just get out of the way and you enjoy the system for what it is. I've done the waaaaay extreme thing: 10 inch midbass in the kicks with a 4 inch hole cut in the firewall, and 5 inch coaxials on the dash. And as great as it sounded, if I’m being completely honest with myself, I preferred what those cars had to offer as an overall package. Don’t get me wrong; I loved my old system. And it wasn’t terribly obtrusive, but for me, personally, there’s really something about having a system that sounds fantastic without seeing what you’re hearing. And while I’m at it, let me be clear that I’m not dissing others’ choices of what they do in their systems. I did things in my old civic that I’m sure others wouldn’t have cared for either. I’m just stating my personal likes/dislikes from my previous builds and drawing inspiration from those I have enjoyed that kept a more stock-like appearance up front.

So, with that in mind, I figure why not take some aspects of my favorites and combine it with some of what I’ve learned and use that to build what I like. And the goal with my new car, at least for the foreseeable future, is to try to target a system that has a relatively stock appearance up front and squeeze out all the sound quality I can within those constraints.

I took a short drive up to Audio X in Florence, AL to talk with Steve Cook about my ideas and get his insight on the new car install. Steve and his shop are known literally worldwide for creating some of the best SQ systems in the States and winning multiple championships in SQ comps. Steve also used to compete in SPL and still holds some world records I believe. So, the dude has a proven track record for building incredible systems that can sound loud and good. Years before I purchased this car I was saying I would have Steve and his shop do the work for me on my next car. And that's exactly what I'm doing.  I could do it myself but frankly, I just don’t want to. I don’t have the time or desire to do this much, especially in this heat. Besides, his shop does better work than I do, for sure. I’ve known Steve for a long time. His work is incredible. With him being an hour from me, it was a no-brainer to have him do this install for me. Plus, the major benefit is I’ll actually have a completed system instead of me having the car apart for a year, slowly getting the install done (I know me, it would take that long, if not longer). 


Initially I was thinking of trying to cram a 3 or 4 inch midrange + tweeter in to the sail panel but that wouldn’t work without sticking out like a sore thumb. Something I don’t want. Dash pods are also out because of the obtrusive aesthetic. No kick mounted midbass for now; I have no doubt down the line this will be revisited but that’s just not on the docket at this moment. Ultimately, after some test fitting, research of drivers, and discussion with Steve this is what I decided on:

*Equipment list and some rationale:*
Kenwood DDX9905S HU: Fine headunit. Comes from my previous car. No need to upgrade.
MiniDSP C-DSP with Dirac Live: Great results with it in my old car and I want to try it out on the new one.
ScanSpeak Illuminator D3004/6040-00 Beryllium Dome Tweeters in sail panels: Excellent on/off axis response. Relatively high sensitivity.
Dyn Esotar2 430 midrange in dash corners: The best pure midrange I’ve ever tested. Excellent linear response through its primary passband and great off-axis response. Small size makes it easy to fit in the “stock” dash corners. “Stock” meaning, there is not an OEM dash/windshield corner location for speakers of any size in this car. So, Steve and I talked about it and the plan was made to pull the windshield and cut in to the dash piece to create a spot for the mids in a sealed enclosure. The location will be made such that future upgrades/swaps (in case something were to blow by accident) can be easily handled without the need to pull the windshield again. The dash piece costs $65 to replace so not a big loss there.
Audio Frog GB60 midbass in doors: These GB60's have long linear throw, good sensitivity, and nice power handling in a small footprint. Great midbass for door installs.
JL Audio 12w6v3 – Never heard any complaints or had any complaints with a 12w6. Simple and effective. Also, I can remove it if I need more space for a trip somewhere.
Tru Technology Tungsten Grande Amplifiers: I'm not too much of an "amp guy". I kind of go with the flow there (no pun intended). My main concern is noise floor and power and reliability; as long as those are adequate I’m good. Having said that, with my new install I wanted to try something new amp-wise. While I was at Cook’s shop, I listened to Scott Brazelton's Lexus and was blown away at how good that system sounded without, literally, any EQ. Dude's running Dyn 430 midranges (which I already wanted) and Tru Tungsten Grande amps. I was sold on the combo. Plus, Steve is a Tru Technology dealer so no worries there if something happened to one of the amps. So, that's what I'll be running now.
Tru Technology Tungsten Grande TG-RS4 - Tweeters and midranges
Tru Technology Tungsten Grande TG-RS2 - Midbass 
Tru Technology Tungsten Grande TG-RS2 - Subwoofer



The drivers I'm using are my “dream team” drivers _for this kind of install_. They're not necessarily cheap but considering the number of times I have “upgraded” my previous car's system over the years, I figure I’ll save money in the long run by getting what I really, _really_ want the first time rather than settle for something that costs less but then feeling the need to replace it with something better later. 

Within those confines, Steve and his guys have full reign to do what they need to do to make it work and add some of their own creativity to the install. I'm excited to see what they do with it.


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## Bnlcmbcar

I’m currently loving the beryllium dome ScanSpeak D3004/6040-00 so far in the same location. I’m hyped to see your midrange placement when its done! My GB25 pillar pods are a bit unsightly.


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## ErinH

Like I said in the previous post, to get to the dash, the windshield was pulled. Doing this makes it easier to work on building enclosures in to the dash. Again, no OEM spots so they are making some for me. I think they had a bit too much fun, judging by the last picture.


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## bertholomey

I’m looking forward to reading every word, staring at every photo! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ErinH

Starting on the doors. A layer of VibraFlex was applied to the inner and outer skin with sheetmetal being used to seal the holes on the inner skin.


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## whoever

Sub’d. Looking forward to seeing the build pics.


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## Hillbilly SQ

That really is a great lineup of gear. Badass midbass, smooth midrange, and I'm sure detailed highs with great sparkle with those tweets. And always loved the w6 in the many installs I've heard it in. Good commanding sound that just plain works. And I get you on buying once and crying once. I finally learned that after all these years. And totally understand your reasoning for farming out the labor to get it done. Quite frankly I would too if I had the money and luxury of a second vehicle to drive. I'm sure you'll put an incredible tune on it that mirrors your personality. You sure kicked down boundaries with your old car and went from n00b to certified mad scientist. I got my fingers crossed that it will be ready 2 months from now


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## Niebur3

Subscribed. This is going to be good!


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## cmusic

Just like a true car audiophile, get a new car and immediately rip it apart and start the install!


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## ErinH

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I got my fingers crossed that it will be ready 2 months from now


Totally. Shooting for it to be complete in the next couple weeks so I can take it to finals in October. Right now the only missing puzzle piece is the amps. I talked to John @ Tru yesterday and he hopes to have them shipped out by middle of next week. And they are gonna be sweeeeet.  




cmusic said:


> Just like a true car audiophile, get a new car and immediately rip it apart and start the install!


Exactly! I have literally been planning this for years. On more than one occasion, I'd make an update on my old Civic, be upset with my lack of good fab/finishing skills, and then exclaim to my wife that the next car was going straight to Steve and I wasn't going to mess around with my hack job installs. That's why I kept the old civic around instead of selling it or trading it in. Knew I'd need something to drive while the new ride was under the knife.


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## ErinH

Bnlcmbcar said:


> I’m currently loving the beryllium dome ScanSpeak D3004/6040-00 so far in the same location. I’m hyped to see your midrange placement when its done! My GB25 pillar pods are a bit unsightly.


I was between the Scan and an Accuton tweeter. Both have excellent response on/off axis. But the Accuton showed a high frequency distortion element to it that seemed odd. So I chose the Scan. This may get swapped out once a new tweeter is released but for now it seemed to be the best choice for my needs.


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## Aaron Clinton

*Nice car, nice color, nice equipment, nice photos..... not nice transmission.*


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## truckguy

Subscribed for this! I’m anxious to see what Mr Cook designs for you! With having the GB60s in there I’m surprised you didn’t go with the GB12 instead of the JL. Are they the normal GB60s or the specials ones that Andy makes on occasion?


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## ErinH

truckguy said:


> Are they the normal GB60s or the specials ones that Andy makes on occasion?


Normal. Nothing special about them that I'm aware of.


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## chithead




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## cmusic

ErinH said:


> *Audio and Install Goals:*
> 
> The goal for this system is pretty simple: a _relatively _stock appearance.
> 
> Before I get too far in to the details, let me give some perspective here…
> 
> ...
> 
> When I think back to my favorite car audio systems as a whole package (sound + aesthetic), the cars that come to mind for me are: Kirk Proffitt’s Acura TL, Jason Bertholomey’s BRZ and Michael Myers' Scion. None have "extreme" builds. Myers has dash pods but it's nothing crazy. All have/had door mounted midbass and a (relatively) understated yet elegant install. There’s nothing that stands out, cosmetically, in a way that draws attention to itself. Yet, they all sound incredible. They just have great tonality and an incredibly enjoyable fun factor. It's like you get in and the speakers just get out of the way and you enjoy the system for what it is. I've done the waaaaay extreme thing: 10 inch midbass in the kicks with a 4 inch hole cut in the firewall, and 5 inch coaxials on the dash. And as great as it sounded, if I’m being completely honest with myself, I preferred what those cars had to offer as an overall package. Don’t get me wrong; I loved my old system. And it wasn’t terribly obtrusive, but for me, personally, there’s really something about having a system that sounds fantastic without seeing what you’re hearing. And while I’m at it, let me be clear that I’m not dissing others’ choices of what they do in their systems. I did things in my old civic that I’m sure others wouldn’t have cared for either. I’m just stating my personal likes/dislikes from my previous builds and drawing inspiration from those I have enjoyed that kept a more stock-like appearance up front.
> 
> ......


I have always liked hidden speakers. My litmus test for the best car audio systems I have heard is "Can I forget I am in a vehicle and just enjoy the music like it was being performed live in front of me?" In my nearly 30 years of car audio (started in 1989) I have probably heard only about 10 systems that have met that goal for me. For myself, I have had only one system that came close to doing that, and other systems I have heard were much better at it than mine was. Not even multiple world championship systems in MECA, IASCA, and USACi have passed this test, meaning a great scoring system does not automatically meet my standards. One of the biggest inhibitors to meeting my goal is realizing where the sound is coming from. 

Ever wonder why MECA allows competitors to put covers on the windows and make the vehicle's interior as dark as possible? It's to let the judges and listeners to concentrate on the sound, not what they are seeing in front of them. Too many people listen with their eyes instead of their ears. In my competition career I have experienced biased judges that have told me that if they had known what brand of speakers I was using behind my black grill cloth, they would not have scored me as good as they did. I had one judge say where ever the speakers are mounted is where he scores the soundstage. The worst is SQ judges that ask what you are using in your system and where the speakers are before they judge you. 

I hope you get your system installed (at least the 1st version of it  ) and be at finals in Louisville. I plan on being there on Saturday and I would love to have a listen!


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## naiku

ErinH said:


> Like I said in the previous post, to get to the dash, the windshield was pulled. Doing this makes it easier to work on building enclosures in to the dash. Again, no OEM spots so they are making some for me.


I thought about doing something very similar to this in my car, the newer Audi's have speakers in the dash corners, but knowing how much work it needed I never bothered. This was also on a 10 year old car. 

Seeing how much they have pulled apart on your brand new car  

You are braver than I am. Even paying someone else to do it, pulling that much apart on a new car I would be nervous. 

Can't fault you at all for having someone else do the work though, like many others I'll be looking forward to the updates and hopefully some seat time in the future.


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## BigAl205

Wait...you got a new car?


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## Stycker

How are you able to compete at finals with a new car. Are you Grandfathered in? If so, you certainly deserve it IMO.


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## ErinH

Stycker said:


> How are you able to compete at finals with a new car. Are you Grandfathered in? If so, you certainly deserve it IMO.


I’m not doing MECA finals. Either just IASCA finals or the 2/3x season kick off for both the orgs. But either way, I’ll be there.


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## SkizeR

truckguy said:


> Are they the normal GB60s or the specials ones that Andy makes on occasion?


Andy doesnt make special ones. There were a few prototypes that are different than the production model, but thats it.


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## ErinH

naiku said:


> Can't fault you at all for having someone else do the work though, like many others I'll be looking forward to the updates and hopefully some seat time in the future.


Yea, I've known those guys for a while and stopped by the shop for random things over the years so I've gotten to see various states of installs. I trust them. Honestly, the fact that it's a new car wouldn't have stopped me from gutting it myself. But I want it to look good and also go back together so that's why I am having them do the work. It being new... I'd at least like for it to look new on the inside as opposed to looking like I did the install. 

And you're always welcome for a demo whenever we meet up again! 





BigAl205 said:


> Wait...you got a new car?


Yep! The day after you stopped by.


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## subiemax

Sub'd
Bad thoughts implanted in my head.


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## diy.phil

Glad to hear it's going to be stealth!


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## strong*I*bumpin

This is looking very promising ,especially with the parties involved.


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## dgage

Erin, I’ve been meaning to ask what you thought was the best midrange speaker so thanks for sharing your thoughts on equipment selection. Looking forward to seeing the progress, great pictures so far.


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## DavidK442

Erin,

After a 25 year hiatus for family and home I find myself drawn back into car audio. Install video's from Mark at Car Audio Fabrication, Peter at PS Audio and the guys at 5-star got me hooked. A desire to learn more about car acoustics brought me to diyMobileAudio, Hanatsu's tuning thread and ultimately your RTA and Sound Quality guides. I started on page 1 of your 2006 Civic build, intent on reading every post to see the theory applied to glorious conclusion. Somewhere around the 3rd major system rebuild, with things becoming more and more extreme, I questioned whether the end (or apparent lack thereof) justified the means.
Today I jumped to the end of your 2006 build to find that you have a new car, a new project and a new thread. Reading your honest retrospective and comparatively simple build plans renews my desire to forge on with my own project. At age 50 "extreme" really is not in my vocabulary so it is encouraging to think that I can build something impressive (to me at least) without laying upside down under the dash for months on end.
I guess this babbling is simply to say thank you for all you have contributed over the years and I am looking forward to following your current project to completion...or at least its reasonable facsimile.

David


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## dgage

DavidK442 said:


> At age 50 "extreme" really is not in my vocabulary so it is encouraging to think that I can build something impressive (to me at least) without laying upside down under the dash for months on end.
> 
> David


Welcome back to the hobby David. But sorry, even basic builds will require some contortion, it’s a DIY(MA) requirement.  Which is why Erin took his new car to a professional. Lol!


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## DavidK442

dgage said:


> Welcome back to the hobby David. But sorry, even basic builds will require some contortion, it’s a DIY(MA) requirement.  Which is why Erin took his new car to a professional. Lol!


Thanks. When I find myself in the trunk, unable to move due to a slipped disc, I will remember your warning and Erin's wisdom. :laugh:


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## Hillbilly SQ

dgage said:


> Welcome back to the hobby David. But sorry, even basic builds will require some contortion, it’s a DIY(MA) requirement.  Which is why Erin took his new car to a professional. Lol!


LOL, those of us who have been here since this forums infancy ain't really spring chickens anymore. I don't bounce back like I used to. However, what most of us do have is the knowledge and understanding of how this stuff works. I know you sure have the knowledge. That alone is a big step in DIY.


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## ErinH

DavidK442 said:


> Erin,
> 
> After a 25 year hiatus for family and home I find myself drawn back into car audio. Install video's from Mark at Car Audio Fabrication, Peter at PS Audio and the guys at 5-star got me hooked. A desire to learn more about car acoustics brought me to diyMobileAudio, Hanatsu's tuning thread and ultimately your RTA and Sound Quality guides. I started on page 1 of your 2006 Civic build, intent on reading every post to see the theory applied to glorious conclusion. Somewhere around the 3rd major system rebuild, with things becoming more and more extreme, I questioned whether the end (or apparent lack thereof) justified the means.
> Today I jumped to the end of your 2006 build to find that you have a new car, a new project and a new thread. Reading your honest retrospective and comparatively simple build plans renews my desire to forge on with my own project. At age 50 "extreme" really is not in my vocabulary so it is encouraging to think that I can build something impressive (to me at least) without laying upside down under the dash for months on end.
> I guess this babbling is simply to say thank you for all you have contributed over the years and I am looking forward to following your current project to completion...or at least its reasonable facsimile.
> 
> David




I really appreciate that. 

I get not wanting to go to extremes with a new build (obviously, since I'm not doing it again). While I loved my old setup and how it would get stupid loud and still sound great, I just grew tired of the car and some of the facets that allowed it to do what it did. And then when I started dreaming up the new build, I thought back to the cars that impressed me the most. None were extreme. I don’t think that’s just coincidence. I think it has more to do with how I, personally, connect to a system. Car audio, in my opinion, is a personal thing. I don’t “listen with my eyes” so this doesn’t really bother me in others’ cars. I can use a scoresheet to objectively score other systems without a problem. I can sit in a car for hours and help tune it and not be “bothered” by the speakers’ placement. But when it comes to the pure enjoyment of my own system those things are contributing factors. Even in my home theater, I wound up building a false wall to hide the speakers behind because seeing them effected my enjoyment of it. Others may not be affected by this sort of thing at all. 

The enjoyment we get from a stereo can be effected by more than just the sound. That’s why we call it a “system”. All things are contributing factors to how we perceive and enjoy it. At least for me.


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## ErinH

dgage said:


> Welcome back to the hobby David. But sorry, even basic builds will require some contortion, it’s a DIY(MA) requirement.  Which is why Erin took his new car to a professional. Lol!


Well, that isn't a reason why I took it to a professional but it's a nice bonus. Especially since I did have back surgery about 12 years ago.  

The reasons why: I don't have the free time I once did. I'm burnt out on installs (it took me a month to just swap midbass drivers). I want it to look good. The last one more than anything.


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## DavidK442

ErinH said:


> Even in my home theater, I wound up building a false wall to hide the speakers behind because seeing them effected my enjoyment of it. Others may not be affected by this sort of thing at all.


I have been hanging out at AVS forums, mostly in the theater build threads, for the last decade or so. I have the AT screen / false wall setup as well for the same reasons.


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## ErinH

I’ll add this, too. I slept like a baby Friday night after I dropped off my car at Steve’s shop. Just the underlying stress of “I have to get this installed” weighs on me. Not knowing that I need to get X or Y done to get the system rolling was a nice feeling. 

Monday I was off work for the holiday and I had some good family time. I thought to myself a few times that day that if I hadn’t taken it to Steve to get the work done, I would have been trying to get as much done myself that day and I wouldn’t have gotten to enjoy the time we had. So if anyone wants to get snooty about ‘DIY’, feel free. No hard feelings. But also remember that attitude you had toward me when you PM me sometime and ask my opinion about a speaker, a question about tuning your system or reading one of my many threads where I do my best to help others understand this crazy hobby.


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## Zippy

Sub’d and Congrats on the new ride!


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## ToNasty

I got tungstens for my truck because I couldn't fit the grandes. Cant wait to see this


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## ErinH

Speaking of the amps...

I talked to John at Tru earlier and he gave me an update. The TG-RS4 is done and the TG-RS2’s are being built. 

And yes, I wanted them in purple. 




















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam

Dude, you are out of your freakin mind! And I love that about you!!!


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## given_to

ErinH said:


> Speaking of the amps...
> 
> I talked to John at Tru earlier and he gave me an update. The TG-RS4’s are done and the TG-RS2 is being built.
> 
> And yes, I wanted them in purple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Ooh I think I may have to go buy some extra muffin tins this weekend. That is fairly clever. Those are like purple purple....nice!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chris12

Looks like you’re installing what would be very similar to my “dream” system.

I just bought a set of D3004/6040-10’s, so I’m definitely looking forward to hearing your impressions on them.

E430’s - Damn. I wanted these, but I’m pretty sure that my wife would literally murder me if I spent that much on a pair of speakers 

I’m very interested to see how the dash corners turn out. Pulling the windshield is a hell-of-a idea, and I gotta say, I would’ve never thought of it.

Thanks for posting. I’ll be following closely!


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## cmusic

Sweet amps... I'm jealous!

Are you going to be using the Line-8 you had on the Zapco APs in the old car?


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## ErinH

DavidRam said:


> Dude, you are out of your freakin mind! And I love that about you!!!


Haha. Thanks! I think?! LOL.


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## ErinH

Chris12 said:


> Looks like you’re installing what would be very similar to my “dream” system.
> 
> I just bought a set of D3004/6040-10’s, so I’m definitely looking forward to hearing your impressions on them.
> 
> E430’s - Damn. I wanted these, but I’m pretty sure that my wife would literally murder me if I spent that much on a pair of speakers
> 
> I’m very interested to see how the dash corners turn out. Pulling the windshield is a hell-of-a idea, and I gotta say, I would’ve never thought of it.
> 
> Thanks for posting. I’ll be following closely!


They’re my dream speakers, too. I mean, there are a lot of great options out there. And I probably could have picked one brand to go with. But I like the hodgepodge of brands. I feel like it’s kind of all the best of the best that each manufacturer makes. 

The windshield removal part was just a necessity for Steve to make the install happen the way we (he) have in mind.


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## ErinH

cmusic said:


> Sweet amps... I'm jealous!
> 
> Are you going to be using the Line-8 you had on the Zapco APs in the old car?


My buddy Tam has a set of purple amps and he and some other fellas kind of gave me a push to do it. Since purple is my wife’s favorite color I thought maybe it would help me with her when she sees the money coming out of our checking account. 

I’m honestly not sure yet about the line driver.


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## naiku

ErinH said:


> Since purple is my wife’s favorite color I thought maybe it would help me with her when she sees the money coming out of our checking account.
> about the line driver.


Smart. Haha. 

The purple looks great, reminds me of some older amplifiers, but can't quite figure out what.


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## Blu

naiku said:


> The purple looks great, reminds me of some older amplifiers, but can't quite figure out what.


Linear Power... Plum Crazy.


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## ErinH

Small update on the midrange portion of the build. Steve sent me this picture earlier. The Dyn 430 mounted on the plexi baffle that will be installed in the corners. There’s a lip around the ring for a grille to be installed that will hide the speakers.


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## GreatLaBroski

Oooh so sweet, and nice to see you on the beryllium tweeter train. 

E430’s are probably the one speaker I want to own to give a better trial of them versus the limited 4 hours I’ve had with them in the past.


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## Bnlcmbcar

ErinH said:


> Small update on the midrange portion of the build. Steve sent me this picture earlier. The Dyn 430 mounted on the plexi baffle that will be installed in the corners.


Clean. 

Are they going to be sealed, aperiodic vented, or IB/free air? If sealed what enclosure volume are you going with?


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## ErinH

Sealed. Steve will be building them and I don’t recall the spec. But they don’t need much space at all. IIRC 0.40 liters is the lower end recommendation. I’ll be crossing them higher than Fc anyway so it’s not really a concern. The goal is just to separate front wave from back wave.


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## ErinH

GreatLaBroski said:


> Oooh so sweet, and nice to see you on the beryllium tweeter train.


Well, to be fair, I think I was the conductor of that train ... or certainly the dude adding coal to the fire. I did a group buy on them when they came out almost 4 years ago (wow, time _flies_!).


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## cmusic

ErinH said:


> My buddy Tam has a set of purple amps and he and some other fellas kind of gave me a push to do it. Since purple is my wife’s favorite color I thought maybe it would help me with her when she sees the money coming out of our checking account.
> 
> I’m honestly not sure yet about the line driver.



I bought my Zapco AP amps and two Tru Line-2CA class A line drivers from Tam. Great guy to buy from! Was going all Tru Billet stage 2,3,or 4 but Tam gave me a deal when he was getting rid of his Zapco stock (just before Zapco went to their current distributor) that I got three Zapco APs for about the price of one Billet stage 4. 

The Tru line drivers act as a high-end home audio pre-amp. Tru amps have a pre-amp bypass switch on them if you are using one of their line drivers. 

I talked with John Yi at Tru and he said that their line drivers did not need to be used if you custom ordered Tru amps and had them build the pre-amp section in the amp to the same specs as the line drivers. He also mentioned that the Tungston Grande RS amps with the correct line driver or internal pre-amp section sounds as good as the Billet series.


----------



## ErinH

cmusic said:


> I bought my Zapco AP amps and two Tru Line-2CA class A line drivers from Tam. Great guy to buy from! Was going all Tru Billet stage 2,3,or 4 but Tam gave me a deal when he was getting rid of his Zapco stock (just before Zapco went to their current distributor) that I got three Zapco APs for about the price of one Billet stage 4.
> 
> The Tru line drivers act as a high-end home audio pre-amp. Tru amps have a pre-amp bypass switch on them if you are using one of their line drivers.
> 
> I talked with John Yi at Tru and he said that their line drivers did not need to be used if you custom ordered Tru amps and had them build the pre-amp section in the amp to the same specs as the line drivers. He also mentioned that the Tungston Grande RS amps with the correct line driver or internal pre-amp section sounds as good as the Billet series.


I guess I should have been a bit more specific.

When I said I'm not sure yet about using the line driver, I meant that it's TBD. I talked to John yesterday about it. He asked if I had one, I told him I have the one I ordered back in April. I asked if he thought I would need it and his answer was more along the lines of "you will just need to try it and see if it helps". The main reason I wanted it for the Zapcos is those suckers want some voltage to make them work well. I don't know that the new system will benefit from a line driver in this case so we're gonna just have to try it and see if it helps or not. If not, I'll sell it. If it does then I'll keep it and use it.


----------



## Chaos

All I can think about is what would happen if I ever suggested pulling out the windshield to a customer in order to install some speakers. Just when I think I've seen it all...

I have no doubt that this build will be awesome to behold and even better to hear.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> Speaking of the amps...
> 
> I talked to John at Tru earlier and he gave me an update. The TG-RS4 is done and the TG-RS2’s are being built.
> 
> And yes, I wanted them in purple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


WICKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## GreatLaBroski

ErinH said:


> GreatLaBroski said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oooh so sweet, and nice to see you on the beryllium tweeter train.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, to be fair, I think I was the conductor of that train ... or certainly the dude adding coal to the fire. I did a group buy on them when they came out almost 4 years ago (wow, time _flies_!). <img src="https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

Conductor or not, I’m glad to see it being used in a higher profile build like yours. Those amps are tasty.


----------



## ErinH

GreatLaBroski said:


> Conductor or not, I’m glad to see it being used in a higher profile build like yours. Those amps are tasty.


LOL. Well, I appreciate it. That’s a really nice thing to say. I am psyched on the amps for sure!


----------



## BigAl205

ErinH said:


> I don't know that the new system will benefit from a line driver in this case so we're gonna just have to try it and see if it helps or not. If not, I'll sell it. If it does then I'll keep it and use it.





ToNasty said:


> And if you dont need it you know the drill


I call dibs!


I'll never use it, but I'm calling it anyway :blush:


----------



## fullergoku

ErinH said:


> Yup! I’ll have to follow them now. LOL.
> 
> And wow!!! That color really does pop! Ooowwweeeee. I’m excited about this!



When I see it Purple Rain just starts playing in my head!!!


----------



## JayinMI

When I saw those amps on IG, and asked if they were yours, I was sorta kidding...I just new you had that series of amps coming. Those are going to be sweet.

Also, will you have to pull the windshield if you should ever need to change the dash speakers, or will they be accessible once they're in?

Jay


----------



## Notloudenuf

This is cool and all but can I listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4xrLKb6oFI at max volume?


----------



## dgage

Erin, it looks like you may be bouncing your midrange and tweet off of the windshield, is that correct? I may be doing the same in my wife’s Toyota Sienna minivan. I just went out today and made a cardboard template of the baffle but need to figure out if I bounce off the windshield or make a small angled baffle.


----------



## audiophile25

ErinH said:


> *Audio and Install Goals:*
> 
> 
> When I think back to my favorite car audio systems as a whole package (sound + aesthetic), the cars that come to mind for me are: Kirk Proffitt’s Acura TL, Jason Bertholomey’s BRZ and Michael Myers' Scion. None have "extreme" builds. Myers has dash pods but it's nothing crazy. All have/had door mounted midbass and a (relatively) understated yet elegant install. There’s nothing that stands out, cosmetically, in a way that draws attention to itself. Yet, they all sound incredible. They just have great tonality and an incredibly enjoyable fun factor. It's like you get in and the speakers just get out of the way and you enjoy the system for what it is. I've done the waaaaay extreme thing: 10 inch midbass in the kicks with a 4 inch hole cut in the firewall, and 5 inch coaxials on the dash. And as great as it sounded, if I’m being completely honest with myself, I preferred what those cars had to offer as an overall package. Don’t get me wrong; I loved my old system. And it wasn’t terribly obtrusive, but for me, personally, there’s really something about having a system that sounds fantastic without seeing what you’re hearing. And while I’m at it, let me be clear that I’m not dissing others’ choices of what they do in their systems. I did things in my old civic that I’m sure others wouldn’t have cared for either. I’m just stating my personal likes/dislikes from my previous builds and drawing inspiration from those I have enjoyed that kept a more stock-like appearance up front.



Thank you for the shoutout Erin! I am quite anxious to see and hear what you have come up with on this build. It should be pretty incredible. I often tell people you don't have to a ridiculously extreme build to get great sound. Just some decent equipment in some good locations, and a bit of tuning time!


----------



## ErinH

JayinMI said:


> Also, will you have to pull the windshield if you should ever need to change the dash speakers, or will they be accessible once they're in?
> 
> Jay


Steve is going to install them in a way I can get to them if they need to be replaced. But you can probably tell from the earlier picture that the baffle is being built for the dyns with that specific flange cutout, so it's not gonna be a case where I can swap for other speakers. :thumbsup:





Notloudenuf said:


> This is cool and all but can I listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4xrLKb6oFI at max volume?


I'll figure something out. I mean, not having 10's in the kicks changes things but it'll be respectable for sure.  




dgage said:


> I just went out today and made a cardboard template of the baffle but need to figure out if I bounce off the windshield or make a small angled baffle.


It depends on the rake of the windshield more than anything. This white paper does a great job breaking it down: 
http://www.jjracoustics.com/128-AES_2010.pdf


----------



## ErinH

audiophile25 said:


> Thank you for the shoutout Erin! I am quite anxious to see and hear what you have come up with on this build. It should be pretty incredible. I often tell people you don't have to a ridiculously extreme build to get great sound. Just some decent equipment in some good locations, and a bit of tuning time!


Absolutely, dude. 

This one's for you and Jason and Kirk:







Well, at least the chorus... and in regards to car audio. But otherwise, it's dead-on applicable.


----------



## ErinH

fullergoku said:


> When I see it Purple Rain just starts playing in my head!!!


Purple amps, puuuurple ammmps.


----------



## ErinH

Some more midrange dash install updates from Steve. CNC cut baffles with the midranges flush mounted. Precision work!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I'm jealous. I might be a while when I get my demo of itAnd will it still have enough output to do a hair trick on Al?


----------



## dgage

ErinH said:


> Some more midrange dash install updates from Steve. CNC cut baffles with the midranges flush mounted. Precision work!


Craftsmanship!!!!

Where will the tweeters be placed?


----------



## ErinH

Sails.


----------



## DavidRam

I have aspirations of some day growing the balls to do a windshield-out, dash-out, interior-stripped-to-bare-metal, audio installation. Until that day, I will concede that all my builds are half-ass...


----------



## nadams5755

It’s cnc’d so he could just cut you some plates to support new mids.


----------



## High Resolution Audio

I'm super happy for you, Erin. Congratulations on the new whip and for having one of the best in the business do the install for you......

The question is, who is going to be doing the tuning?


----------



## ErinH

Thanks, Gerald. I appreciate it. 

I've pretty much always tuned my car myself, for better or worse. So, me, myself, Dirac Live (unless I decide to not use it) and whoever has input are gonna be the tuners.


----------



## ErinH

DavidRam said:


> I have aspirations of some day growing the balls to do a windshield-out, dash-out, interior-stripped-to-bare-metal, audio installation. Until that day, I will concede that all my builds are half-ass...


Yea, this isn't an average hobbyist install, that's for sure. To put more icing on the cake, Steve called me earlier and told me that the air ducts run right below where the speakers are going to go. Not something either of us expected. So, in order to build sealed enclosures for them, he'll have to fabricate new air ducts and route them around the corners where the mids are going. :surprised:

I guess I don't have to worry about anyone copying the idea; not unless they wanna pull the windshield and dash and build new air ducts. If they do, more power to them. 

And I'm _dang sure_ glad I decided not to tackle this job myself expecting to get it knocked out over a weekend. :laugh:


----------



## DavidRam

ErinH said:


> Yea, this isn't an average hobbyist install, that's for sure. To put more icing on the cake, Steve called me earlier and told me that the air ducts run right below where the speakers are going to go. Not something either of us expected. So, in order to build sealed enclosures for them, he'll have to fabricate new air ducts and route them around the corners where the mids are going. :surprised:
> 
> I guess I don't have to worry about anyone copying the idea; not unless they wanna pull the windshield and dash and build new air ducts. If they do, more power to them.
> 
> And I'm _dang sure_ glad I decided not to tackle this job myself expecting to get it knocked out over a weekend. :laugh:


Routing new air ducts...  

Does factory warranty still apply in that case??!! Lol


----------



## ErinH

DavidRam said:


> Routing new air ducts...
> 
> Does factory warranty still apply in that case??!! Lol


I would hope they'd never get to the point where they would find out. lol...


----------



## BigAl205

I saw this in person today, and those acrylic adapter plates look killer. Too bad they will eventually be covered up. You might want to see if Steve could edge light them, just to show off every once in a while.

BTW, I left you a hidden surprise. Let's see how long it takes you to find it


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> Yea, this isn't an average hobbyist install, that's for sure. To put more icing on the cake, Steve called me earlier and told me that the air ducts run right below where the speakers are going to go. Not something either of us expected. So, in order to build sealed enclosures for them, he'll have to fabricate new air ducts and route them around the corners where the mids are going. :surprised:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I don't have to worry about anyone copying the idea; not unless they wanna pull the windshield and dash and build new air ducts. If they do, more power to them.
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm _dang sure_ glad I decided not to tackle this job myself expecting to get it knocked out over a weekend.


1 Weekend of fabrications always turn into 20 weekends

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

AVIDEDTR said:


> 1 Weekend of fabrications always turn into 20 weekends
> 
> Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


Yup. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, it would take me a loooong time to get the install done at my current output rate. Take today, for example... had to take the puppy for an emergency vet visit and have been keeping an eye on her since this morning. All good now. But no way I would have gotten any install stuff done.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> Yup. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, it would take me a loooong time to get the install done at my current output rate. Take today, for example... had to take the puppy for an emergency vet visit and have been keeping an eye on her since this morning. All good now. But no way I would have gotten any install stuff done.


If Steve was closer I would have got the truck done by him. With my Avenger it's a labour of love the way I see it

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## bertholomey

BigAl205 said:


> I saw this in person today, and those acrylic adapter plates look killer. Too bad they will eventually be covered up. You might want to see if Steve could edge light them, just to show off every once in a while.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I left you a hidden surprise. Let's see how long it takes you to find it




https://youtu.be/G6Kspj3OO0s




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## casey

Congrats on the new ride! Color is perfect as well.

Im excited to see how this comes out with your talent, the gear and that level of install. Absolutely love the color on those amps. Ive always had a thing for anodized purple parts.

Hopefully my work schedule will align and allow me to make it back to an NC meet to catch up with everyone. Its been a while.


----------



## Gas Is Expensive

The GB60 is a KILLER midbass driver. Excellent (if easy) choice there! 

One question for now: Aside from availability (not hard to find the v2, but hard to find one brand new) why the 12W6v3 over the 12W6v2? You have a lot more experience than I do, but I'm very familiar with the 12W6v2 (thanks to you in the first place!), and I gave the 12W6v3 a shot for awhile... IME and IMO, the v3 is a bit of a step back, overall. The SQ just isn't as good. I suppose you've had a different experience than I have had.

Edit: Oh yeah, and CONGRATS on the new ride. I'm really looking forward to seeing your build come together and, naturally, evolve over time.


----------



## ErinH

Gas Is Expensive said:


> The GB60 is a KILLER midbass driver. Excellent (if easy) choice there!
> 
> One question for now: Aside from availability (not hard to find the v2, but hard to find one brand new) why the 12W6v3 over the 12W6v2? You have a lot more experience than I do, but I'm very familiar with the 12W6v2 (thanks to you in the first place!), and I gave the 12W6v3 a shot for awhile... IME and IMO, the v3 is a bit of a step back, overall. The SQ just isn't as good. I suppose you've had a different experience than I have had.
> 
> Edit: Oh yeah, and CONGRATS on the new ride. I'm really looking forward to seeing your build come together and, naturally, evolve over time.




I haven’t had that same experience with the w6. It’s always been a solid subwoofer. It’s kind of like the AE IB15; it’s a go-to for the application I’m using. There are tons of other subs that would probably work just as well but once I find something I like for an application, I tend to stick with it. I don’t really sweat subwoofer choices. I ran AE IB subs for probably ten years.


----------



## ErinH

John sent these last night. Amps are coming along nicely.


----------



## mumbles

Blu said:


> Linear Power... Plum Crazy.


I'm glad somebody else out there is old enough to remember those


----------



## mumbles

Erin,
Congrats on the new ride and a stellar choice of equipment! Even with the limited number of pics you've posted, it's really making me consider taking my car to Steve!


----------



## dgage

mumbles said:


> I'm glad somebody else out there is old enough to remember those


Oh yeah, I loved my old school Linear Power amps, had to get the heat sinks powder coated again due to scratches over time but they were still playing strong after 8+ years.


----------



## Blu

mumbles said:


> I'm glad somebody else out there is old enough to remember those


Oh yeah... I lusted after the Linear Powers back in the day, especially the Plum Crazy colour!

Erin, those TRU's are sexy AF!!! I guess the colour choice should come as no surprise though...


----------



## ToNasty

Blu said:


> Oh yeah... I lusted after the Linear Powers back in the day, especially the Plum Crazy colour!
> 
> 
> 
> Erin, those TRU's are sexy AF!!! I guess the colour choice should come as no surprise though...


I've seen that video  I had no idea that was eric

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

I gotta get that wig back out for finals.


----------



## ErinH

mumbles said:


> Erin,
> Congrats on the new ride and a stellar choice of equipment! Even with the limited number of pics you've posted, it's really making me consider taking my car to Steve!


Dude, if you’re even considering having someone do the work for you, you definitely should talk to him about it.


----------



## optimaprime

mumbles said:


> I'm glad somebody else out there is old enough to remember those




I thought of us amps purple surfboards when I saw Erin’s amps on Instagram at trus account


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## optimaprime

Steve Audio x makes really pretty things and I followed your other car Erin so can’t wait to see this one done! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dgage

ErinH said:


> It depends on the rake of the windshield more than anything. This white paper does a great job breaking it down:
> http://www.jjracoustics.com/128-AES_2010.pdf


Thanks for the link to that paper Erin. It looks like my wife’s minivan has a windshield rake near 35 degrees so quite far away from the optimal 55-70 so I’ll have to move and angle the speakers away from the windshield some to make it work better. Appreciate the help in making sure I take that into account before installing anything.


----------



## ErinH

dgage said:


> Thanks for the link to that paper Erin. It looks like my wife’s minivan has a windshield rake near 35 degrees so quite far away from the optimal 55-70 so I’ll have to move and angle the speakers away from the windshield some to make it work better. Appreciate the help in making sure I take that into account before installing anything.


It’s a good read. Seen it posted many times here over the years. Glad you found it useful.


----------



## stixzerjan

Hi Erin, just read the paper. What will happen if the windshield and dash were less than 55 deg? İ can move it away much as my dash were not really flat.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk


----------



## dgage

stixzerjan said:


> Hi Erin, just read the paper. What will happen if the windshield and dash were less than 55 deg? İ can move it away much as my dash were not really flat.


Paper (section 8.1.2,8.1.3) specified to move the speaker further away from the windshield and/or angle the speaker baffle down in the front and up in the back, thereby increasing the angle.

For me I just need to design a speaker baffle/mount that can drop in and then I can play with the angle. I’d push the speaker as far as I could away from the windshield but the stock speaker location has that pretty well constrained.


----------



## ErinH

stixzerjan said:


> Hi Erin, just read the paper. What will happen if the windshield and dash were less than 55 deg? İ can move it away much as my dash were not really flat.
> 
> Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk


It looks like section 8.1.3. Addresses your question. But keep in mind, this paper was written seems to be targeted toward the "overall result" of response changes relative to the front two seats and rear passenger seat. And they seem to favor low frequency loading more than high frequency content in their conclusion section. So it depends on your goal.


----------



## locoface

Following! Hopefully I get to listen to this beauty at finals this year.


----------



## ErinH

Definitely. I want to hear your mazda as well. :thumbsup:


----------



## Chaos

JayinMI said:


> Also, will you have to pull the windshield if you should ever need to change the dash speakers, or will they be accessible once they're in?
> 
> Jay


If I didn't already know you are an installer, that would have given it away  That's just they way you get conditioned to think after a while...


----------



## dgage

Chaos said:


> If I didn't already know you are an installer, that would have given it away  That's just they way you get conditioned to think after a while...


Erin specifically called out the dash speakers will be able to be removed to change/repair without removing the windshield.

See post #2 where he discusses the Dynaudio 430 midrange and its placement.


----------



## ErinH

More progress on the midrange portion of the install. Steve CNC’d a few pieces of plexi for each midrange enclosure and bonded them in a stack-fab manner. The pictures below also show some of the duct re-routing necessary to fit the enclosures in the dash. The enclosures have a lip around them so when they “drop” in to the cut dash, the lip will sit on the dash. This will be smoothed in to give it a nice transition and flushed shape. 

These enclosures are legit.


----------



## ErinH

And a couple videos...


----------



## metanium

So the little bit that the enclosures stick up above the dash, is the cause for re-working the A/C ducts? If so, looks like modifications to the ducts could be "not so bad".


----------



## ErinH

Yes. And no. These are in-progress pictures so they don't show the full story. From what I gathered from Steve was the defroster vents were right under those stock hole and needed to be moved. What we see here is those removed for the time being. But I can get further clarification later if needed. The bottom line, though, is this wasn't a simple drop in install, after all, though we both kind of thought it would be as simple as building an enclosure and dropping it in. Well, simple is relative, I guess... I mean, the dash and windshield had to be pulled first. lol


----------



## naiku

ErinH said:


> These enclosures are legit.


Wow. A shame those are going to be hidden, they look awesome.


----------



## ErinH

naiku said:


> Wow. A shame those are going to be hidden, they look awesome.


Yea, I know. Shame all that hard work is gonna be covered. But, I'm really excited to see how it looks completed!


----------



## mumbles

ErinH said:


> Yea, I know. Shame all that hard work is gonna be covered. But, I'm really excited to see how it looks completed!


As are we all...


----------



## ErinH

Minor update. Trunk work has started. Amps shipped today and should be in by Friday. Still planning for completion before finals.


----------



## ErinH

Great. Now people are gonna start PM'ing me asking for my digits. 


But, hey, what are build logs for? Display a build? Nope. Get digits? Yep.


----------



## ToNasty

ErinH said:


> Great. Now people are gonna start PM'ing me asking for my digits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, hey, what are build logs for? Display a build? Nope. Get digits? Yep.


I'm just waiting on a separate thread of eric memes

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

ToNasty said:


> I'm just waiting on a separate thread of eric memes
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Me, too. I'm sure mumbles is gonna love that.


----------



## ErinH

Them: "Hey, man. I noticed your thread has 20 million views. That's crazy for a build log!"

Me: "What can I say?... I'm hot."


----------



## AVIDEDTR

This is looking great!


----------



## ToNasty

ErinH said:


> Minor update. Trunk work has started. Amps shipped today and should be in by Friday. Still planning for completion before finals.


Question. Are you using 4 or 8awg into the napa for power and ground? Seems 4awg is a hair to big


----------



## Pad

Nice setup! Personally I wouldn't mix Dynaudio with Scan-Speak, but that's merely a matter of taste. 

I hope everything sound good when finished! Looking forward for the next steps.


----------



## ErinH

Pad said:


> Nice setup! Personally I wouldn't mix Dynaudio with Scan-Speak, but that's merely a matter of taste.


This kind of thought makes little sense to me when you're talking about car audio; an environment where everything will need to be heavily EQ'd because of the environment and even moreso when you're placing drivers in different locations (like the sails vs the dash corners, in my case). I can understand the argument for home audio where a speaker is built to provide a specific response and the room is considerably less a factor than a car. But that's just my opinion...


----------



## dgage

ErinH said:


> I can understand the argument for home audio where a speaker is built to provide a specific response and the room is considerably less a factor than a car. But that's just my opinion...


Not true...in my opinion and experience.  I've heard JBL M2 speakers in several rooms, which according to JBL are their most accurate studio monitor. I've also heard my personal JTR 212HT (now HTR) in several rooms as I've taken them to different AVS GTGs. The room makes a pretty significant difference to the sound. So much so that I'd take a decent speaker in a well treated (designed treatments as opposed to treatments just thrown in) room over a great speaker in a mediocre room. And yes, manual room EQ was applied in all cases to try to get some semblance of consistentcy.


----------



## ErinH

dgage said:


> Not true...in my opinion and experience.  I've heard JBL M2 speakers in several rooms, which according to JBL are their most accurate studio monitor. I've also heard my personal JTR 212HT (now HTR) in several rooms as I've taken them to different AVS GTGs. The room makes a pretty significant difference to the sound. So much so that I'd take a decent speaker in a well treated (designed treatments as opposed to treatments just thrown in) room over a great speaker in a mediocre room. And yes, manual room EQ was applied in all cases to try to get some semblance of consistentcy.


Let's back the truck up .... 

I didn't say the room in a home doesn't affect the response. I just said it doesn't have the same impact as a car does. In car audio, wherever the speaker is, that surface acts as a baffle because in nearly every situation the distance from the surface is less than a half-wavelength away from whatever driver you are using and the effect is significant especially as you go lower in frequency. You don't have that effect in a home unless you put the speakers right up to a boundary. There are other factors as well but that's an easy case that gets my point across.


----------



## Chris12

ErinH said:


> Them: "Hey, man. I noticed your thread has 20 million views. That's crazy for a build log!"
> 
> Me: "What can I say?... I'm hot."


Erin,


If you don’t have any sponsors, you should definitely look into it. With the following you have you shouldn’t be paying for equipment.

For example: I would definitely expect sales on the Scan beryllium tweeters, and other items that you’re using in your build, to increase since the start of your new build thread..

To use the verbiage of the times, you’re an “influencer”..


----------



## ErinH

Chris12 said:


> Erin,
> 
> 
> If you don’t have any sponsors, you should definitely look into it. With the following you have you shouldn’t be paying for equipment.
> 
> For example: I would definitely expect sales on the Scan beryllium tweeters, and other items that you’re using in your build, to increase since the start of your new build thread..


I'm sure it wasn't misinterpreted but just to be clear, my comment about the 20 million views was a tongue-in-cheek response to the Glamour Shots photoshop of me.  

As for gear, I'm not getting anything for free. That would be cool, though, and I appreciate the notion. But I have made a lot of friends in the hobby/industry over the years and helped a lot of folks so I think karma is helping me out. She's nice. Not as hot as I am in my Glamour Shots photo... but she's pretty dang good to me.


----------



## ErinH

John sent me these pics of the finished amps. I can’t wait to see ‘em in person.


----------



## dgage

ErinH said:


> Let's back the truck up ....
> 
> I didn't say the room in a home doesn't affect the response. I just said it doesn't have the same impact as a car does. In car audio, wherever the speaker is, that surface acts as a baffle because in nearly every situation the distance from the surface is less than a half-wavelength away from whatever driver you are using and the effect is significant especially as you go lower in frequency. You don't have that effect in a home unless you put the speakers right up to a boundary. There are other factors as well but that's an easy case that gets my point across.


Fair enough. I'll turn the truck around.


----------



## ToNasty

ErinH said:


> John sent me these pics of the finished amps. I can’t wait to see ‘em in person.


Those are big bitches! I just got my t2 and t4 on. Smaller than those but heavy. I wonder how heady those beasts are

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

ErinH said:


> John sent me these pics of the finished amps. I can’t wait to see ‘em in person.


might be the sexiest amps in the history of car audio.


----------



## whoever

As has been stated before, gorgeous amps! Really like that color choice!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Man those amps POP. Can't wait to see and hear them in person.


----------



## SkizeR

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Man those amps POP.


For Erins sake, i sure hope they dont


----------



## AVIDEDTR

SkizeR said:


> For Erins sake, i sure hope they dont


they will at finals.....SteelBar!


----------



## ErinH

AVIDEDTR said:


> they will at finals.....SteelBar!


----------



## JayinMI

Does John offer allen head set screws? Just curious.

Jay


----------



## ErinH

You'd have to ask him that, because I have no idea.


----------



## Babs

JayinMI said:


> Does John offer allen head set screws? Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> Jay



One would presume it’d be an easy enough part to source. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## captainobvious

I think they look killer- badges and all sir.
Like you said, if someone wants them placed differently, I’m sure John and company could accommodate. One only needs to ask them.


----------



## ultimatemj

Hi Erin,

I'm also about to use a 12w6v3 in a new system...

So, I'm curious about your plans for powering it.



ErinH said:


> *Audio and Install Goals:*
> JL Audio 12w6v3
> Tru Technology Tungsten Grande TG-RS2 - Subwoofer


My understanding is the sub is only available with dual 4ohm coils, and the "clearly not recently updated" TRU website indicates:
4Ω STEREO RMS: 210 x 2
2Ω STEREO RMS: 325W x 2
4Ω MONO RMS : 650W x 1​
Is the amp bridged/mono 2ohm stable? 
If so, won't that be way more than that sub is rated for?









If not, are you wiring each coil to a channel on the amp? or to be 8ohm?? Or???​
Feels like I'm missing something...

Can you elaborate?

Thanks.


----------



## ErinH

They made one that is bridgeable for me. Was told it puts out about 730 watts but I'm not sure if that was at 2 ohm or not; I assume it was since that was the intended load configuration (John asked what I'd be using and Steve told him make it for a 2 ohm load).


----------



## ErinH

They made one that is bridgeable for me. Was told it puts out about 730 watts but I'm not sure if that was at 2 ohm or not; I assume it was since that was the intended load configuration (John asked what I'd be using and Steve told him make it for a 2 ohm load).


----------



## ultimatemj

ErinH said:


> They made one that is bridgeable for me.


:BINGO:


----------



## cmusic

At finals I'm going jump into Erin's trunk and sit on the amps until he gives them to me.  


Great looking amps and I want a listen at finals! Very happy for you, except for when your wife sees how much all of this will cost.


----------



## ErinH

I asked John Yi (at Tru) if he could provide some words regarding the amps since I've had people ask and I thought who better to ask than the guy who made them. So, here you go:



> Tungsten & Tungsten Grand v2 Series are designed to be modular.
> Meaning multiple configuration.
> Tungsten Grande RS is our Top of the Line
> Grande RS vs. S (Standard)?
> Fifty (50) parts upgraded + Different preamp PCB
> Grande RS uses same parts config as our Billet v2 Stage IV & Stage V
> 
> Your amp
> TG-RS4 was configed to be Hi-Voltage to have much power on tap.
> 150w x4
> As well as removing Bridgeable feature to further streamline signal path
> 
> This also goes for your Mid-Bass Amp to streamline signal path.
> 
> Your Bass amp, we kept its Bridgeable feature and changed power supply to be Hi-current Mode to support your Sub impedance.


----------



## dgage

Erin,

Can you speak to why you or you and Steve decided to fire the mid off the windshield but the tweeter in a pod more on-axis? Why not put the mid/tweet side by side and bounce off the windshield? Thanks.

David


----------



## ErinH

I normally like the mid and tweeter together but wanted this to be more of a “stock” type setup and didn’t want a tweeter blob sitting on the dash nor a tweeter tucked in to a pocket, pushing the mid further inboard. And I also didn’t like the idea of the tweeter playing “across” the dash. Plus, with tweeters being further inboard it would affect width; tweeters in the sails won’t make up for the mids not being there but will add some signal to the far sides. There are cons to what I’ve chosen, sure. But those are the main reasons I decided to go this route. Short story: I chose the trade offs I was more fond of in this install. Now, I have considered wiring a small baby tweeter to stick behind the pillars if I ever wanted to engage two-seat mode but that’s just a little notion in my brain at this moment. Not something I’ll be doing any time soon.

Edit: Oh, forgot to mention... And the tweeter is one thing I could see me replacing at some point down the line simply because there are other ones that I may want to experiment with later so using the sails makes it an easier swap.


----------



## ErinH

There’s a show at Steve’s shop today. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to make it but my buddy Scott sent me some “spy shots” of my car.


----------



## SkizeR

ErinH said:


> There’s a show at Steve’s shop today. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to make it but my buddy Scott sent me some “spy shots” of my car.


I will never understand why he uses PL to attach baffles, but I guess it works for him

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

SkizeR said:


> I will never understand why he uses PL to attach baffles, but I guess it works for him
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Not sure. But he’s been doing it for years. Obviously it works, though. Maybe you can ask him at finals. 

BTW, you don’t have to quote all the pics, nooB.


----------



## SkizeR

ErinH said:


> Not sure. But he’s been doing it for years. Obviously it works, though. Maybe you can ask him at finals.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you don’t have to quote all the pics, nooB.


If your boy steve wasnt working me for 18 hour shifts on his soccer mom van I would have had time to delete the excess 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Chaos

dgage said:


> Erin specifically called out the dash speakers will be able to be removed to change/repair without removing the windshield.
> 
> See post #2 where he discusses the Dynaudio 430 midrange and its placement.


I know. Just found it funny that Jay mentioned it because that's how installers typically learn to look at things, no matter what the application is or who is building it. My remark was not intended to be derogatory in any way towards this thread, the owner of the car or the shop involved.


----------



## Chaos

ErinH said:


> More progress on the midrange portion of the install. Steve CNC’d a few pieces of plexi for each midrange enclosure and bonded them in a stack-fab manner. The pictures below also show some of the duct re-routing necessary to fit the enclosures in the dash. The enclosures have a lip around them so when they “drop” in to the cut dash, the lip will sit on the dash. This will be smoothed in to give it a nice transition and flushed shape.
> 
> *These enclosures are legit. *


Yeah they are. I am normally not a fan of drawing attention to audio gear visually, but those things look as good as they are going to sound. Nice work indeed.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

SkizeR said:


> I will never understand why he uses PL to attach baffles, but I guess it works for him
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


PL??


----------



## ToNasty

Hillbilly SQ said:


> PL??


It's a type of adhesive 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## SkizeR

ToNasty said:


> It's a type of adhesive
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


The adhesive of all adhesives 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Damn 2 replies to my adhesive question in less than 10 seconds, lol.


----------



## ToNasty

SkizeR said:


> The adhesive of all adhesives
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I somewhat agree. Works well

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## SkizeR

I like to refer to it as welding cement lol

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## dgage

Hillbilly SQ said:


> PL??


I use PL Premium 3X for my commercial home theater subs and no fasteners. It works really well. We’ve tried a bunch of other adhesives available at the local box stores including PL Premium 8X but we keep going back to PL Premium 3X. Stuff is great and for sub/speaker enclosures, it also makes them airtight when used properly. My guess is this is why Mr. Cook uses it all over the place...just in case the mechanical fasteners loosen.


----------



## ErinH

Steve’s making more progress. Here are a few pics he sent while constructing the dash speaker setup. 

I’m at a loss for words. I think saying this is looking like it could be OEM may even be an understatement.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

That's awesome man. I've always been the most impressed with installs that look like nothing ever happened to the untrained eye.


----------



## GEM592

Interested about how you like the mids in that position, even with the full enclosure. I have always been against it etc but I see what you're doing and will want to see what you think.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

That looks excellent. Truly an OEM appearance. I’m intrigued with the design because I may have to go with something similar if I decide to pick up a model 3 next year.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

GEM592 said:


> Interested about how you like the mids in that position, even with the full enclosure. I have always been against it etc but I see what you're doing and will want to see what you think.


They can work quite well firing up at the glass. They do for me in my truck with very similar locations in relation to the glass, dash, and pillar. I remember back in 09 when nearly everyone came down on me for wanting to fire up at the glass. They said that could NEVER sound good. Now more people seem to be doing it than not. Guess it can sound good after all:laugh:


----------



## GEM592

Hillbilly SQ said:


> They can work quite well firing up at the glass. They do for me in my truck with very similar locations in relation to the glass, dash, and pillar. I remember back in 09 when nearly everyone came down on me for wanting to fire up at the glass. They said that could NEVER sound good. Now more people seem to be doing it than not. Guess it can sound good after all:laugh:


Nice story bro


----------



## ErinH

One of the best sounding cars I've ever heard (Kirk Proffitt's) used mids in the dash locations. One of the best sounding cars had pillar mounted mids. Different methods to get to a pretty awesome result. 

So, considering the dash-mounted mid method, in most installs, if you look at the reflection on the windshield you can see the speaker staring back at you. The reflection is pretty much on-axis, depending on the angle of the driver and the windshield. As long as the low pass filter is within the distance of the driver/reflection then you've got yourself another point source that won't be detrimental to the sound. No more than a midrange on an a-pillar x inches away and causing comb filtering of its own due to 2 primary reflections (one off the windshield and one off the side glass), which I dealt with in my previous installs. 

Ultimately, I understand the 'concern' you guys are mentioning. I'm aware of the tradeoffs of this install position and have made that sacrifice in lieu of having a large midrange hanging off the pillars staring me in the face which has its own set of problems I mentioned above. Car audio is a game of pick-your-poison. I picked a different one this time. I'm sure it'll taste the same, just with different ingredients.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

ErinH said:


> As long as the low pass filter is within the distance of the driver/reflection then you've got yourself another point source that won't be detrimental to the sound.


Could you elaborate on this in layman's terms?


----------



## ErinH

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Could you elaborate on this in layman's terms?


The idea is similar to comb filtering (which would in this case be the effect of lobing). If you have two drivers are they are x inches away, they need to be playing within a bandpass of the center-to-center spacing of each other, otherwise you run in to issues as the speaker begins to beam and you get comb filtering. 

With a dash mounted speaker, it's not an exact science until you make it so (thanks to the different angles wrt the listener) but the general idea is the same: you want to keep the speaker playing within a bandwidth where it is "seen" as a single point source and the two point sources (dash & reflection) aren't "fighting" each other (comb filtering). Or, if you wanted to picture it this way you could: instead of (2) point sources you have (1) large point source that spans the distance of those (2) point sources. You know the larger a speaker is, the lower in frequency it beams. It's not technically the same... but it's another way of looking at the problem that might be a bit easier to visualize.

So, in general, a dash mounted speaker crossed too high will have real issues as it goes higher in frequency wrt to the distance between the dash mounted mid and the reflection. But if you keep it in check then the issue is lessened. It's there. But you'll have to take some measurements and do some math to understand exactly where it becomes an issue. FWIW, I'm planning on crossing these mids around 3khz, give or take. They could go higher if they were on a bookshelf speaker in my house but I'm banking on the reflection driving me to need to cross it in the 3khz neighborhood to keep comb filtering issues down. I'll have to see for sure when I get the car back and start tuning, though.


----------



## GEM592

It is an interesting thread, the kind of thing that you want to read and that helps everyone. Given the attention to detail I am highly interested because this is something you hear argued all the time. I hate glass near high frequency drivers, full disclosure, but there probably are some benefits.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

ErinH said:


> The idea is similar to comb filtering (which would in this case be the effect of lobing). If you have two drivers are they are x inches away, they need to be playing within a bandpass of the center-to-center spacing of each other, otherwise you run in to issues as the speaker begins to beam and you get comb filtering.
> 
> With a dash mounted speaker, it's not an exact science until you make it so (thanks to the different angles wrt the listener) but the general idea is the same: you want to keep the speaker playing within a bandwidth where it is "seen" as a single point source and the two point sources (dash & reflection) aren't "fighting" each other (comb filtering). So, in general, a dash mounted speaker crossed too high will have real issues as it goes higher in frequency wrt to the distance between the dash mounted mid and the reflection. But if you keep it in check then the issue is lessened. It's there. But you'll have to take some measurements and do some math to understand exactly where it becomes an issue. FWIW, I'm planning on crossing these mids around 3khz, give or take. They could go higher if they were on a bookshelf speaker in my house but I'm banking on the reflection driving me to need to cross it in the 3khz neighborhood to keep comb filtering issues down. I'll have to see for sure when I get the car back and start tuning, though.


So in a vehicle where the center to center spacing is more (like a wide truck) the lowpass would generally need to be lower? I've noticed some strange behavior with my dash mounted mids above about 4khz especially on the passenger side. Need to do more testing and take some rta measurements with the gb25's open on top but I remember those Morel mids I tested falling off a cliff then leveling back out (like shoal in a river) above a certain point (5k maybe?)


----------



## ErinH

GEM592 said:


> It is an interesting thread, the kind of thing that you want to read and that helps everyone. Given the attention to detail I am highly interested because this is something you hear argued all the time. I hate glass near high frequency drivers, full disclosure, but there probably are some benefits.


Well, like I said above, a lot of that has to do with the driver size, the bandpass, and proximity to the glass. Dash speakers have a bad name thanks to poor implementation. But lots of dudes are/have done it very well over the years.


----------



## GEM592

ErinH said:


> Well, like I said above, a lot of that has to do with the driver size, the bandpass, and proximity to the glass. Dash speakers have a bad name thanks to poor implementation. But lots of dudes are/have done it very well over the years.


I am interested in hearing your comments after it all comes together very much.


----------



## ErinH

Some other miscellaneous progress pics. 

I am SO excited about this.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Nice

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## LBaudio

Looking good, I really like to see where this install is going....Dash looks like it came from factory


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Can't wait to see the Prince amps show up

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## cmusic

The dash looks great, like it came from the factory! Erin, Steve needs to charge you double or triple for all the excellent work he is doing! 

Erin got more technical than I will but dash mounted mids firing into the windshield can work very well if implemented correctly. I learned the technique as paying attention to the direct sound to reflected sound relationship. Ideally you want the direct sound from the speaker to be heard several milliseconds before the speaker's reflected sound from the dash, a-pillar, and windshield. You want to hear the direct sound first then the reflected sound a time period later, like an echo. The very slight time differences in the direct and reflected sounds to your ears causes the comb filtering and therefore bad sound. 

However if you can get the reflected sound to your ears at or extremely close to the same time (less than 1-2ms ideally) then your brain will acknowledge the direct and reflected sound as one sound. Generally speaking, the closer the speaker is to the reflective surface, the more likely your brain will interpret the direct and reflected sound as one sound. Erin's dash with its mids up close to the windshield is a perfect example of this. 

Now with different cars with different windshield and dash angles, some experimentation to find the perfect speaker angle to the dash and windshield may have to be done before you find perfection. Kirk Proffitt's (now Rob Bess') 4" mids are at different angle to the windshield than Erin's mids are. And likewise Nick Wingate's Chevy truck's dash mids are at a totally different angle. 

I remember an green Accura NSX from the late '90s that competed in IASCA having its tweeters mounted on the a-pillars but aimed directly at the windshield making sure you heard the reflected sound before the direct sound from the speaker. 

PJ's Autosound from Erie, PA (IIRC) had several competitors that had the mids in the floors near the seats and tweeters in the doors near your elbows, all the speakers firing towards the windshield so that you heard the reflected sound off of the windshield first. While it was dependent on how the listener's legs and arms were positioned (not to block the speakers), it did work surprisingly well if you sat in the correct position.


----------



## LBaudio

cmusic said:


> The dash looks great, like it came from the factory! Erin, Steve needs to charge you double or triple for all the excellent work he is doing!


do it, do it,


----------



## naiku

Everything looks like it is coming together really nicely, I like the little touches like having a label where the amps are going to go. No one will really see that, but it's cool nonetheless.




ErinH said:


> I am SO excited about this.


Unsurprisingly!! Funny, for all the talk around here lately of "DIY" and expensive gear etc. for me this is what it boils down to. Who cares how someone gets there, what matters after all is said and done is that they are excited about what their car will sound like (and to some degree look like). To me that comment of yours in many ways expresses how little stress you have dealt with for this install, how much time you have saved (or not wasted, depends how you want to look at it) and ultimately you can't wait to get your car back and listen to some music. Do you have an estimate of when it will be finished? Looks like they are making really good progress.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

naiku said:


> Everything looks like it is coming together really nicely, I like the little touches like having a label where the amps are going to go. No one will really see that, but it's cool nonetheless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unsurprisingly!! Funny, for all the talk around here lately of "DIY" and expensive gear etc. for me this is what it boils down to. Who cares how someone gets there, what matters after all is said and done is that they are excited about what their car will sound like (and to some degree look like). To me that comment of yours in many ways expresses how little stress you have dealt with for this install, how much time you have saved (or not wasted, depends how you want to look at it) and ultimately you can't wait to get your car back and listen to some music. Do you have an estimate of when it will be finished? Looks like they are making really good progress.


I've begun to understand why people who were once hardcore DIY people are going the pro installer route. I know Erin has worked hard for his money and been smart with it so he's treating himself to an install that will be done in a fraction of the time and better than if he would have done it himself. I'm actually quite jealous of that dash install. He's probably money ahead because it's going to be done right and tight the first time.


----------



## Cobalt232

ErinH said:


> Some other miscellaneous progress pics.
> 
> I am SO excited about this.
> 
> 
> I was in Florence yesterday. Stopped by Audio X and saw this car. Knocked on the doors, dead as can be. Solid as a rock. The dash in person is far better looking than the pictures show.
> 
> To be honest, I was there to get information and estimate on getting my 16 Titan XD done. NOT anywhere close to what Erin is getting. But to see what options are available in my budget. Looks like it will be a few months before I am ready to do this. $$$$ Lol


----------



## Mic10is

Ive been following this build here and on FB when Steve posted pics. the plexi enclosures were super cool...but then he posted the dash pics and I looked at it and was like...wtf he gave up on the plexi enclosures and is just workin on the stock enclosures....

it actually took me a bit to figure out that the pics were of what he fabricated and it looks completely stock. 
like if you didnt absolutely know what the car looked like you would have zero inclination to believe any work was done

that is ****ing Stellar!!! 

regardless of how it ends up sounding, just the fact that it is so well integrated gets my thumbs up....but Im sure youll make it sound ok --at least for one decade of music


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Mic10is said:


> but Im sure youll make it sound ok --at least for one decade of music


BURN!:laugh:


----------



## ErinH

naiku said:


> Do you have an estimate of when it will be finished? Looks like they are making really good progress.


I can't say for sure. The amps haven't shown up yet (but are due to arrive today). Plus, it depends on how much other work they get in. But we are hoping it'll be ready to go by Finals.


----------



## ErinH

Mic10is said:


> and is just workin on the stock enclosures....


Actually... there aren't any stock enclosures. There's no stock dash location for speakers at all in this car. Completely made from scratch. 





Mic10is said:


> it actually took me a bit to figure out that the pics were of what he fabricated and it looks completely stock.
> like if you didnt absolutely know what the car looked like you would have zero inclination to believe any work was done
> 
> that is ****ing Stellar!!!


I know! Even I know and I can't tell.


----------



## ErinH

Mic10is said:


> but Im sure youll make it sound ok --at least for one decade of music





Hillbilly SQ said:


> BURN!:laugh:



Hey, one is better than none.


----------



## ErinH

Cobalt232 said:


> I was in Florence yesterday. Stopped by Audio X and saw this car. Knocked on the doors, dead as can be. Solid as a rock. The dash in person is far better looking than the pictures show.
> 
> To be honest, I was there to get information and estimate on getting my 16 Titan XD done. NOT anywhere close to what Erin is getting. But to see what options are available in my budget. Looks like it will be a few months before I am ready to do this. $$$$ Lol


Was good to hear from you yesterday, Fletcher. I look forward to seeing what you guys do with your truck. You'll have to come by the house and let me see it when it's done. And don't forget to make a build log to show it off.


----------



## Stycker

Hillbilly SQ said:


> I've begun to understand why people who were once hardcore DIY people are going the pro installer route. I know Erin has worked hard for his money and been smart with it so he's treating himself to an install that will be done in a fraction of the time and better than if he would have done it himself. I'm actually quite jealous of that dash install. He's probably money ahead because it's going to be done right and tight the first time.


I second this. I got into this hobby because I love listening to good quality music and I also love working with my hands and trying new things. It is a great hobby for both of these. It seems the older I get, the less time I have for this hobby. Lets face it a build of this quality requires time and money. I may be tempted to take my next vehicle to Steve or SkizeR even though I don't live close by. I simply don't see any quality shops in my area. I have gone to many shops within a 50 mile radius and I was always the smartest man in the room, and thats not saying much. I think it would be worth the trip to go to a quality shop. Tuning to me is the fun part anyway.


----------



## ambesolman

ErinH said:


> One of the best sounding cars I've ever heard (Kirk Proffitt's) used mids in the dash locations. One of the best sounding cars had pillar mounted mids. Different methods to get to a pretty awesome result.
> 
> So, considering the dash-mounted mid method, in most installs, if you look at the reflection on the windshield you can see the speaker staring back at you. The reflection is pretty much on-axis, depending on the angle of the driver and the windshield. As long as the low pass filter is within the distance of the driver/reflection then you've got yourself another point source that won't be detrimental to the sound. No more than a midrange on an a-pillar x inches away and causing comb filtering of its own due to 2 primary reflections (one off the windshield and one off the side glass), which I dealt with in my previous installs.


It's these reasons that I was initially wanting to go with something like the Illusion c3cx in my dash, to have a single point source for the mids and highs. I still feel that a 3" coax would best suit my vehicle and would love to try one one day. However, with the c3cx being really expensive and the tweeters in them also seeming to have issues with longevity, it may be a while before that happens.


----------



## bbfoto

naiku said:


> ...
> Unsurprisingly!! Funny, for all the talk around here lately of "DIY" and expensive gear etc. for me this is what it boils down to. Who cares how someone gets there, what matters after all is said and done is that they are excited about what their car will sound like (and to some degree look like). To me that comment of yours in many ways expresses how little stress you have dealt with for this install, how much time you have saved (or not wasted, depends how you want to look at it) and ultimately you can't wait to get your car back and listen to some music. ...


Well said, Ian.


----------



## ErinH

Moving on....



Amps came in today and the team at Audio X got to work fast!


----------



## Audi_SQ4

ErinH said:


> Yea, I don’t get the “deserve” logic and this whole thing about being DIY worthy... seems petty. That’s all Ima say. Don’t want this to be a shadow that hangs over an exciting time I’m simply looking to share with friends and those who find something they can use from it.
> 
> Moving on....
> 
> 
> 
> Amps came in today and the team at Audio X got to work fast!


Fantastic attention to details.... I'm loving this install.... That dash man.... That dash !!! 

Those Esotar 430 will sound awesome up there

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## miniSQ

red wire clashes with the purple amps...neon green would have rocked it

sorry i am a graphic designer by trade:laugh:


----------



## ErinH

Audi_SQ4 said:


> Fantastic attention to details.... I'm loving this install.... That dash man.... That dash !!!
> 
> Those Esotar 430 will sound awesome up there
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


When I go pick it up, you need to meet me up there and film my reaction. Lol


----------



## ErinH

miniSQ said:


> red wire clashes with the purple amps...neon green would have rocked it
> 
> sorry i am a graphic designer by trade:laugh:



Christmas themed. I like the way you think. Wanna come help me put up my Christmas display in November?


----------



## Audi_SQ4

ErinH said:


> When I go pick it up, you need to meet me up there and film my reaction. Lol


Just tell me when.....

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

miniSQ said:


> red wire clashes with the purple amps...neon green would have rocked it
> 
> 
> 
> sorry i am a graphic designer by trade


Agreeed

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## Audi_SQ4

AVIDEDTR said:


> Agreeed
> 
> Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


Knowing the AudioX crew... Believe me, it's going to look awesome once all buttoned up...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH




----------



## Hillbilly SQ

ErinH said:


> Christmas themed. I like the way you think. Wanna come help me put up my Christmas display in November?


Is that you Clark?


----------



## ErinH

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chaos

To me, this particular build log is unique because it illustrates what can can happen when a professional shop works together with a true car audio expert in order to create something extraordinary. Granted, it isn't playing yet but I think we're all pretty confident that it will be sounding very good in the near future, and that's what matters.

I will say that I noticed the gray ground wire the other day and thought it was cool that it matched the car. Aesthetically, I think it would have been a nice touch if the red wire was purple instead but then again the dash is what everybody will really be gawking at. Regardless, it still looks fantastic so far.


----------



## SkizeR

Chaos said:


> To me, this particular build log is unique because it illustrates what can can happen when a professional shop works together with a true car audio expert in order to create something extraordinary. Granted, it isn't playing yet but I think we're all pretty confident that it will be sounding very good in the near future, and that's what matters.
> 
> 
> 
> I will say that I noticed the gray ground wire the other day and thought it was cool that it matched the car. Aesthetically, I think it would have been a nice touch if the red wire was purple instead but then again the dash is what everybody will really be gawking at. Regardless, it still looks fantastic so far.


The guy who owns the shop and did the build is a true car audio expert...

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Chaos

SkizeR said:


> The guy who owns the shop and did the build is a true car audio expert...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



Ok, DIY expert then 

*the owner of the car


----------



## Mic10is

SkizeR said:


> Chaos said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me, this particular build log is unique because it illustrates what can can happen when a professional shop works together with a true car audio expert in order to create something extraordinary. Granted, it isn't playing yet but I think we're all pretty confident that it will be sounding very good in the near future, and that's what matters.
> 
> 
> 
> I will say that I noticed the gray ground wire the other day and thought it was cool that it matched the car. Aesthetically, I think it would have been a nice touch if the red wire was purple instead but then again the dash is what everybody will really be gawking at. Regardless, it still looks fantastic so far.
> 
> 
> 
> The guy who owns the shop and did the build is a true car audio expert...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I always find it amusing when people don't know who Steve Cook is
.....even better the people who don't know the things he did in SPL before he decided to give the sq thing a go.....
It's like the people who think Post Malone is going to give Ozzy a career


----------



## ErinH

I swear, based on this thread alone there seems to be four negative replies for every single positive one. Buncha old dang hens... *cluck cluck cluck*... Everyone needs to settle down. Don't make me pull this car over!


----------



## ErinH

Chaos said:


> To me, this particular build log is unique because it illustrates what can can happen when a professional shop works together with a true car audio expert in order to create something extraordinary. Granted, it isn't playing yet but I think we're all pretty confident that it will be sounding very good in the near future, and that's what matters.
> 
> I will say that I noticed the gray ground wire the other day and thought it was cool that it matched the car. Aesthetically, I think it would have been a nice touch if the red wire was purple instead but then again the dash is what everybody will really be gawking at. Regardless, it still looks fantastic so far.



I appreciate the sentiment. Even though you should be pushed off the flat-earth for not knowing Steve is *the* man!  

As for the wire not matching ... *shrugs*. I'd have been happy with any color wire, tbh. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

I think respectful people know to stfu and enjoy unless they have something constructive to say. I've followed every post in this thread and have adhered to that (with the exception of this post). Erin, your build is coming along great and many people are enjoying it.

Don't let salty fools drag you down.


----------



## ErinH

Mic10is said:


> It's like the people who think Post Malone is going to give Ozzy a career


He did. And Kanye put Paul McCartney on.


----------



## Salami

I think this build is ****ing awesome and can't wait to see and hear the finished product!!! I won't lie, I am bit jealous. 

Except I know Erin will still change something even though he says he won't by the time I get to hear it.



Edit: who the **** is Post Malone and what did he do to OZZY????


----------



## SkizeR

Salami said:


> I think this build is ****ing awesome and can't wait to see and hear the finished product!!! I won't lie, I am bit jealous.
> 
> 
> 
> Except I know Erin will still change something even though he says he won't by the time I get to hear it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: who the **** is Post Malone and what did he do to OZZY????


Post malone is the guy that discovered ozzy.........

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Zippy

ErinH said:


> I swear, based on this thread alone there seems to be four negative replies for every single positive one. Buncha old dang hens... *cluck cluck cluck*... Everyone needs to settle down. Don't make me pull this car over!




I for one am happy for you. You got a vehicle that meets your needs and is easy to work on the stereo in comparison to other cars. You are having your dream setup installed. I’ve always said car audio is a ratio of time and money. With your family, time is too precious. Your kids will only be those ages once and you should enjoy them while you can. Don’t pay attention to the negativity, they are not looking at the big picture. Keep posting the updates for those of us that understand.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Zippy said:


> I for one am happy for you. You got a vehicle that meets your needs and is easy to work on the stereo in comparison to other cars. You are having your dream setup installed. I’ve always said car audio is a ratio of time and money. With your family, time is too precious. Your kids will only be those ages once and you should enjoy them while you can. Don’t pay attention to the negativity, they are not looking at the big picture. Keep posting the updates for those of us that understand.


Well said. I swore I wouldn't post in this thread again because I feel responsible for some of the negativity others are posting. I really do understand why Steve is doing this even though some probably still think I don't. That car is gonna be sweet and VERY low profile where the eyes can see. Money well spent in my opinion with family time being so precious. I know Erin will have a badass tune on it in short order. Those purple amps do fit his personalityLively and unique as they come.


----------



## CrimsonCountry

Loving the stealth approach Erin! Really hope I get the privilege of hearing this sometime when you're in Huntsville!


----------



## ErinH

CrimsonCountry said:


> Loving the stealth approach Erin! Really hope I get the privilege of hearing this sometime when you're in Huntsville!




Sure thing. I’m on the arsenal now so hit me up sometime via PM.


----------



## ErinH

Some more updates...

Looks like the trunk is closer to completion. Still need to build the raised floor and sub box. But it’s looking awesome to me. The extra battery was Steve’s suggestion but I thought it would be nice so was on board. 

The minidsp controller mount was a nice surprise. I told Steve when I dropped the car off to just put it in the glovebox and that would be fine. I also asked if he could find a way to integrate a little mini voltage display I bought years ago. So when he sent the pic of both of them mounted to the console piece I was pleasantly surprised. 

And the sails are coming along nicely.


----------



## optimaprime

Love me some carbon fiber ! Those amps just glow ! To bad they be covered up. Or is there plexi some where on floor to see them?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Justintime

Forget all the negative posts. I have been drooling all over, just looking at the E-430 dash. My favorite mids in stealth mode.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Thump!!!


----------



## CrimsonCountry

ErinH said:


> Sure thing. I’m on the arsenal now so hit me up sometime via PM.


Awesome! Will do.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH




----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Wow they did great on those sails. They look like they came with the car from the factory!


----------



## ErinH

Hillbilly SQ said:


> Wow they did great on those sails. They look like they came with the car from the factory!


Agreed. I’m really excited how everything is looking OEM in this build. Just the quality of the install. From the dash to the trunk, they’re doing an amazing job. Far better than one of my hack jobs would ever be.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Those sails are looking gooooood.


----------



## BigAl205

That looks amazing. I can't wait to see what he can do with a Pickup


----------



## ErinH

Stopped by the shop to check the progress today. Goodness. Words don’t do this install justice. It looks so good. The goal here was an OEM look. It certainly has that in spades. 

Sails are done. Just need to put some screws in them.


----------



## ErinH

More trunk pics because I love the look of these amps. 



























And spare battery...


----------



## ErinH

Dash work...

While I was there Steve had started on the grille covers for the mids. Steve designed them on Vcarve Pro and cut them on the CNC.


----------



## ErinH

Then he began painting and sanding. Not completely done yet, but thus gives you the idea. A few more rounds of sanding and painting and they’ll look as if Honda made it this way.


----------



## ErinH

And here’s some shots of what the underside looks like with the enclosures. Lots of stuff had to be moved from here to make room.


----------



## ErinH

And in case anyone is wondering, there’s no concern with the midrange reflecting off the grille and causing issues. The distance from the cone to the underside of the grille is about 0.80 inches. That’s about 8.5khz in half-wave calcs. Which is at least twice as high as my intended crossover point.


----------



## ErinH

Almost forgot, everything is playing now. Still no sub and no windshield so no tuning. But it was nice to power it up and hear everything working. And nice to see the headunit in its new home.


----------



## Chris12

ErinH said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Any idea what speaker wire that is?



I wish I knew his method to get that finish on the tweeter pods. Looks completely factory.


----------



## BigAl205

ErinH said:


>


No cable pants? What kinda substandard hack-job is this? 

This install is so over-the-top, I'm sure you're giddy as a school girl. I'm happy for you.


----------



## Bnlcmbcar

ErinH said:


> Almost forgot, everything is playing. Still no sub and no windshield so no tuning.


Looking pretty sweet! An awesome example of what can be achieved in the newer Civics!

When your ready for the tuning and maybe interested in a more exact way of obtaining your Dirac measurement positions. I’ve been working up a simple Dirac Live measuring rig out of PVC connectors. I’ll do a thread soon for how to make one with parts from Home-depot. It can be placed directly on the seat or worn by a person (depending on your size) sitting in the seat.

It will orientate and place the UMIK at the several measurement points required for Chair and Sofa (focused).


----------



## tonynca

The texture on the tweeters is perfect.

I'd definitely be interested in seeing some REW graphs from the dash firing speakers. Glad the install is going better than you expected.


----------



## ToNasty

Chris12 said:


> Any idea what speaker wire that is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I knew his method to get that finish on the tweeter pods. Looks completely factory.


Interested as well

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

Chris12 said:


> Any idea what speaker wire that is?


I *believe* it’s from parts express. 
https://www.parts-express.com/cat/direct-burial-underground-speaker-wire/1623


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> I *believe* it’s from parts express.
> 
> https://www.parts-express.com/cat/direct-burial-underground-speaker-wire/1623


Junk, wheres the lamp cord 

Hi Erin 

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

Here’s a video of the CNC cutting the grille covers


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

So on the midranges reflecting off the grille is the closer they are to it the lower you have to cross up top to prevent issues or is it the other way around? And what part of the cone in relation to the grille do you get that measurement from?


----------



## ErinH

The further the grille from the driver and the higher the frequencies played, the more potential for reflection back in to the driver.


----------



## Notloudenuf

This is so crazy! No one is even gonna know you have a world class stereo in this car. You'll have to show them a factory Civic and then yours and say "See! those aren't factory"


----------



## ErinH

Quick video with the speakers playing. 

Sweeeeeeeeeeeet emoooooootiiooooon










And Mr. Cook, simulating the stage and windshield intermittently. LOL


----------



## Cobalt232

Great looking Build! What is the expected completion date? Looks as if it's getting close!


----------



## ErinH

Just shooting to have it done by finals. Anything before then is gravy.


----------



## casey

The grills he made completely bring that whole idea together! That has got to best looking OEM work around along with the sails


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

I know I sound like a broken record at times but I'll say this again. It's the world class installs that pretty much look like nothing ever happened in the way of car audio that impress me the most. It takes A LOT of talent to pull this off and Steve and crew have knocked it out of the park.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> Quick video with the speakers playing.
> 
> 
> 
> Sweeeeeeeeeeeet emoooooootiiooooon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Mr. Cook, simulating the stage and windshield intermittently. LOL


Real depth at the head lights eh? Hahahah

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## ToNasty

ErinH said:


> Just shooting to have it done by finals. Anything before then is gravy.


Dumb question. I'm looking for another t2 for my sub stage. I've never wired a sub on a 2ch amp. I'm assuming your sub is a d2 wired down to 4ohm and then bridged on the t2rs correct?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbubba

I've been following this and keep getting amazed at how clean and quickly it is coming together. Looks incredible/stock. Looking forward to seeing/hearing it in person.


----------



## ambesolman

Bnlcmbcar said:


>



^^^this is genius, great work

Amazing job on the civic so far too.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk?


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Replied Views 
303 11,155
someone lock this thread, I now have to Read All my Emails

THANKS ERIN!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ErinH

Notloudenuf said:


> This is so crazy! No one is even gonna know you have a world class stereo in this car. You'll have to show them a factory Civic and then yours and say "See! those aren't factory"





casey said:


> The grills he made completely bring that whole idea together! That has got to best looking OEM work around along with the sails





Hillbilly SQ said:


> I know I sound like a broken record at times but I'll say this again. It's the world class installs that pretty much look like nothing ever happened in the way of car audio that impress me the most. It takes A LOT of talent to pull this off and Steve and crew have knocked it out of the park.





bigbubba said:


> I've been following this and keep getting amazed at how clean and quickly it is coming together. Looks incredible/stock. Looking forward to seeing/hearing it in person.


Agreed! 

Pictures don’t do this justice. And words can’t express how happy and appreciative I am. When I met with Steve last month I told him my goal was to squeeze out as much SQ as we could but I wanted the front to have a relatively stock look to it. I wasn't expecting it to look this dang good!


Steve said last night that it was more challenging to do an install like this where you're trying to make it look factory but get the best performance you can vs a more traditional midrange where the mid is on the dash and stealth/factory is not the goal.


----------



## ErinH

ToNasty said:


> Dumb question. I'm looking for another t2 for my sub stage. I've never wired a sub on a 2ch amp. I'm assuming your sub is a d2 wired down to 4ohm and then bridged on the t2rs correct?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


The sub I ordered is a DVC 4 ohm and will be wired to a 2 ohm load. The amp will be bridged for the sub.

I posted about it earlier so here's those quotes:

They made one that is bridgeable and 2 ohm stable for me. Was told it puts out about 730 watts but I'm not sure if that was at 2 ohm or not; I assume it was since that was the intended load configuration (John asked what I'd be using and Steve told him make it for a 2 ohm load).

And this is what John said about the sub-amp:
"_Your Bass amp, we kept its Bridgeable feature and changed power supply to be Hi-current Mode to support your Sub impedance._"


----------



## ToNasty

ErinH said:


> The sub I ordered is a DVC 4 ohm and will be wired to a 2 ohm load. The amp will be bridged for the sub.
> 
> 
> 
> I posted about it earlier so here's those quotes:
> 
> 
> 
> They made one that is bridgeable and 2 ohm stable for me. Was told it puts out about 730 watts but I'm not sure if that was at 2 ohm or not; I assume it was since that was the intended load configuration (John asked what I'd be using and Steve told him make it for a 2 ohm load).
> 
> 
> 
> And this is what John said about the sub-amp:
> 
> "_Your Bass amp, we kept its Bridgeable feature and changed power supply to be Hi-current Mode to support your Sub impedance._"


Ahh perfect thank you 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## bbfoto

Erin, the install looks AHHMAAAZING!  I'm as giddy and excited as a schoolgirl for you, LOL.

Spied in the video was what looked like a bag of polyfill. Was going to ask you earlier on in the build thread if Steve & crew were planning to do any absorbtion/barrier/resonance treatment while the dash was pulled out? I know you did some of that on your OG Civic.

Oh, and is there any room for, or are you planning to install the Iota/C.A.E. 12V PSU/Charger inside the vehicle again?

About all I can say about the amplifiers is that, well, I guess they match your hair color, so why not?!  JK, they look Killer! The dash baffles & grills look killer as well, as do the tweeter sail panels! 

Side note: A while back I built some test enclosures for a pair of nearfield studio monitors with the Satori MR13P-4 & Scan Beryllium tweeters and a NOS pair of Infinity Beta 12" subwoofers. KILLER sound, but being nearfield monitors they were in close enough proximity to my listening position that those eyeballs/nipples on the Scan tweeters freaked me out and distracted me, LOL. Ended up simply stretching some black speaker grill cloth over them and mounting them back in the enclosures. Helped my OCD a lot, haha.  

ÜBER STOKED with your Stealthy/OEM-look install!!!


----------



## ErinH

Billy, thanks for the shared enthusiasm. 

No, the power supply will not be installed inside of the car because the fan on on it is too loud and distracting. It was fine in the old civic because the trunk wall blocked the fan noise but with this car being a hatchback that fan noise will be too loud to have inside the cabin. 

That bag of poly fill was used for the enclosures.


----------



## ejeffrey

I'm late to the party on this one, but those dash speakers are absolutely ridiculous in the best way possible. Holy smokes, it takes the OEM look to a whole other level. Can't wait to see the rest of the finished product in what's already a great install.


----------



## captainobvious

This is coming together very nicely. Love it.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

captainobvious said:


> This is coming together very nicely. Love it.


Needs moar sub cone area. AE 18 comes to mind

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## captainobvious

AVIDEDTR said:


> Needs moar sub cone area. AE 18 comes to mind
> 
> Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk





After hearing what Mike Myers was able to do with a little shallow JL 12 in his car, (and what Phil Gibbs' AD12 does ib in his car), I'm sure this will do a great job in Erin's hatch


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Indeed

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## mzmtg

ErinH said:


> Quick video with the speakers playing.
> 
> Sweeeeeeeeeeeet emoooooootiiooooon


My favorite cover of Sweet Emotion


----------



## Truthunter

Really enjoying the updates here. As some of you already know, I'm one that really appreciates the factory look while maximizing performance. Looking forward to a demo at finals if the line isn't too long 



tonynca said:


> I'd definitely be interested in seeing some REW graphs from the dash firing speakers. Glad the install is going better than you expected.


I'm interested in this too. I have a similar setup with 4" mids in the dash (factory toyota locations like Scott's Lexus) and do get some cancellation between 1.2-2khz and then again around 4.5khz (start of comb filtering I believe) - But nothing that can't be minimized to unnoticable with tuning especially with the right tool 


One question I have:
Was there any acoustical effect type strategy to spacing of the mids from the windshield and/or the shape and orientation of the perforations in the grills?... or just purely cosmetic preference?


----------



## ErinH

Truthunter said:


> One question I have:
> Was there any acoustical effect type strategy to spacing of the mids from the windshield and/or the shape and orientation of the perforations in grills?... or just purely cosmetic preference?


There was. The real goal was to get the speaker as close to the windshield as possible to push the comb filter frequency out of the passband I intend to play these. I talked about it in an earlier post... don't remember which post number it was. 

As for the grille, there was a reason why Steve shaped the 'bars' of the grille a special way. But let me get back to you on this when I have some better pictures.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Amazing!


----------



## GEM592

ErinH said:


> Then he began painting and sanding. Not completely done yet, but thus gives you the idea. A few more rounds of sanding and painting and they’ll look as if Honda made it this way.


So we’re not done with that raised 
molding yet correct?


----------



## oabeieo

Erin, as usual I love it ! 


And that mic holder (wow what an idea huh! )

Nice choice on the 3004/ looks amazing!


----------



## oabeieo

Them amps! Aaah 

This one is going to be amazing.


----------



## ErinH

Dash is now done. Steve messaged me last night saying the acrylic he used the other day was too brittle so he re-made the grilles out of ABS this time. I think the ABS actually looks better. Seems to match the vents in the car.


----------



## stixzerjan

He made it better than Honda. 

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk


----------



## Zippy

That dash looks stock even though it’s not. Kudos on the install!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Wow Honda put nice Dyn Esotar 2 mids in the dash from the factory? AWESOME!


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

NICE!!!


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

How long will the install take, hours?


----------



## ErinH

Huckleberry Sound said:


> How long will the install take, hours?


Probably easier to measure by days/weeks and not hours.


----------



## bbfoto

ErinH said:


> Dash is now done. Steve messaged me last night saying the acrylic he used the other day was too brittle so he re-made the grilles out of ABS this time. I think the ABS actually looks better. Seems to match the vents in the car.


The ABS grilles look great! :thumbsup: And probably much easier to heat-form if necessary to match any slight curves or twists in the OEM dash surface contours as well.

Should do the door's grilles for the GB60s to match. 

Looking good, man!


----------



## bbfoto

GreatLaBroski said:


> That looks excellent. Truly an OEM appearance. I’m intrigued with the design because I may have to go with something similar if I decide to pick up a model 3 next year.


I've heard a Model S with Audio Development dash mids, sail tweeters, and W800NEO 8" midbass in the doors (using all OEM locations) that was really impressive. Excellent imaging, tonality, and stage! Just lacking a bit in depth beyond the windshield, but it was in early stages of the tune.

I'm sure that Erin has designed this system to excel and will no doubt match and hopefully exceed what Kirk achieved in his Acura.  As he said, this setup CAN work extremely well. I don't think he'd move forward with this much custom fabrication in the brand new Civic if he had any doubts. And once your previous systems have reached a certain level, you can't step backwards.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Those ABS grills are looking GOOOOOD. 



bbfoto said:


> I've heard a Model S with Audio Development dash mids, sail tweeters, and W800NEO 8" midbass in the doors (using all OEM locations) that was really impressive. Excellent imaging, tonality, and stage! Just lacking a bit in depth beyond the windshield, but it was in early stages of the tune.


The question I'm wrestling with here for the Model 3 is whether it's possible to fit a truncated-frame 10" midbass in the doors. I'm also trying to figure out how much space there is between the chassis firewall shelf and the top of the dash speaker grill (there are 3x 4" mids there). I'd love to be able to do 3x Scanspeak 12mu's but I'll probably have to settle for 3x 12m's or e430's if I can't get the 12mu's to fit.


----------



## nadams5755

i hear the morel flangeless 4s drop in the model 3 dash openings


----------



## Mashburn

Subscribed! It’s way to late for me to read, so I’m coming back to read start to finish tomorrow. You helped get me started in this hobby on 8thcivic years ago! Can’t wait to see what you accomplish with this one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cobalt232

Hmm. No updates in the last few days? Maybe it's coming home soon? IDK but need to see it or have updates!


----------



## ambesolman

Cobalt232 said:


> Hmm. No updates in the last few days? Maybe it's coming home soon? IDK but need to see it or have updates!




Maybe they lost a bunch of screws and can’t put it back together. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk?


----------



## ErinH

Well, the windshield is back in. At this point the false floor needs a top and the sub enclosure needs to be built. Then she’ll be done. I’m looking forward to it. 





























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## whoever

That looks fantastic, Erin!


----------



## naiku

ErinH said:


> At this point the false floor needs a top and the sub enclosure needs to be built.


And a jumper needs to be installed ??


----------



## ErinH

Haha. Yep.


----------



## oabeieo

6mo and large format midranges max. 5$ on it anyone ?


----------



## ErinH

I’ll take that bet. 

See ya’ in 6 months.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

I’ll counter bet that if any upgrade happens in the next year it’ll be midbasses to 8’s


----------



## ErinH

I’ve already said that might happen. Or tweeters. So I ain’t touching that. 

But we shall see. Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette. 

I’m just looking forward to enjoying what I’m using now. Not worrying about what I might be using later.


----------



## GreatLaBroski

I think your equipment selection is great. But I do know you have a thirst for rich midbass.


----------



## oabeieo

ErinH said:


> I’ll take that bet.
> 
> See ya’ in 6 months.



lol ....okay! Haha it’s on !


----------



## oabeieo

ErinH said:


> I’ve already said that might happen. Or tweeters. So I ain’t touching that.
> 
> But we shall see. Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette.
> 
> I’m just looking forward to enjoying what I’m using now. Not worrying about what I might be using later.



Once upon a 2” speaker andy was best friends with the warranty dept . 
Needless to say after two exchanges for new product they caught onto my trick and I was cut off permanently on that set. 

Although you do have an advantage I mean what does that thing handle 35 W Or is it 40 lol (kidding) 


Seriously I’m just joking, you know I love you . But I’m also waiting for that nice cool night when your ears are feeling fresh And you just in the right mood where you just say f-it and crank it up loud as it can go.... and then I’ll be five dollars richer


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

ErinH said:


> I’ve already said that might happen. Or tweeters. So I ain’t touching that.
> 
> But we shall see. Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette.
> 
> I’m just looking forward to enjoying what I’m using now. Not worrying about what I might be using later.


I think your equipment lineup is about as good as it can get for what your install goals were. I bet I buy a new truck before anything more than a tweeter swap happens...or will I? I drove my previous Ram for nearly 6 years


----------



## dgage

What’s up with this tweeter swap before the install is even finished? The ScanSpeak 6040 is a well regarded beryllium tweeter that Erin has experience with. What did I miss? What tweeter is on the horizon?


----------



## bbfoto

ErinH said:


> Well, the windshield is back in. At this point the false floor needs a top and the sub enclosure needs to be built. Then she’ll be done. I’m looking forward to it.


Man, the custom "OEM" grilles look awesome in the dash! 

I would kind of hate to cover them, but I still think that the grilles might look really good and still OEM if they were covered in matching high-quality grille cloth, which I might opt to do just to mitigate some UV exposure and keep dust off those purdy little Dyns. Also curious if you'll be trying out a dash mat with this install as well? 

Definitely looking forward to what you and Steve do with the sub enclosure and false floor. Hoping that you'll still be able to show off those purple Tru's a bit with a Plexiglas window or pop-out panel.


----------



## mumbles

bbfoto said:


> Man, the custom "OEM" grilles look awesome in the dash!


^^^ Agree 100%... those grills flat out look factory! I know Steve was out of town this weekend, so here's to hoping he jumps in with both feet on Monday to finish things up!


----------



## bigbubba

Well, for me, I don't care much about what may or may not get changed out 6 months down the road. I'm sure what is getting finished up now will sound incredible when done and I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing it, hopefully at Finals.


----------



## Truthunter

Amazing work so far as to be expected from X. Looking forward to the rest of it.

Ever get measurements of the mid's raw response yet?



ErinH said:


> As for the grill, there was a reason why Steve shaped the 'bars' of the grille a special way. But let me get back to you on this when I have some better pictures.


Also, care to share on this topic yet?


----------



## oabeieo

dgage said:


> What’s up with this tweeter swap before the install is even finished? The ScanSpeak 6040 is a well regarded beryllium tweeter that Erin has experience with. What did I miss? What tweeter is on the horizon?




My thoughts exactly.


----------



## nirschl

Beautiful build. Really looking forward to seeing to finished product here. More so, wish I could hear it. Cheers ?


----------



## LBaudio

nice install!


----------



## dumdum

Truthunter said:


> Amazing work so far as to be expected from X. Looking forward to the rest of it.
> 
> Ever get measurements of the mid's raw response yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, care to share on this topic yet?


I’d think it’s to minimise reflections that would drag the image across the screen from the speakers location, grills often help minimise this, especially if shaped to be reflective to/block a certain direction of the sound leaving the cone


----------



## ErinH

dgage said:


> What’s up with this tweeter swap before the install is even finished? The ScanSpeak 6040 is a well regarded beryllium tweeter that Erin has experience with. What did I miss? What tweeter is on the horizon?





oabeieo said:


> My thoughts exactly.


I’m not planning on changing tweeters. Folks are already worried bout what and when I’m gonna change. I was just saying if I were to change anything, I could see it being the tweeters simply because it’s an easy thing to swap out and try something else if I wanted to later.


----------



## ErinH

Truthunter said:


> Amazing work so far as to be expected from X. Looking forward to the rest of it.
> 
> Ever get measurements of the mid's raw response yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, care to share on this topic yet?



I have only been up there to set up the DSP, which was before the windshield was back in. So, no, I haven’t taken any measurements yet. I will do that at some point but not sure if it’ll be before finals. Steve said he’s taking the week off this week to take care of family matters so I’m not sure when I’ll get the car back. It’ll be cutting it close for finals. But I’m not gonna bug him about my car when he’s got bigger issues to worry with.


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

ErinH said:


> I’m not planning on changing tweeters. Folks are already worried bout what and when I’m gonna change. I was just saying if I were to change anything, I could see it being the tweeters simply because it’s an easy thing to swap out and try something else if I wanted to later.


Yeah I was a little surprised about the equipment swap talk too. I was just ribbing you a little but it seems some are assuming you're gonna go on the equipment swap treadmill like the old days. And don't the gb60's move enough air to give a standard 8" midbass a run for it? I bet those Be tweets have a really nice sparkle to them.


----------



## Jscoyne2

Curious what a car would stage like without a windshield

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


----------



## m3gunner

Just read all the way through this... I hit the build logs page daily and thought this thread was Erin's old car. Doh! 

Beautiful install. It's inspiring me to sell off my entire stash and just call Bing...


----------



## Jscoyne2

ErinH said:


> Dash work...
> 
> While I was there Steve had started on the grille covers for the mids. Steve designed them on Vcarve Pro and cut them on the CNC.


How do they get the curves on the computer to match the curves of the enclosures so damn well?

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


----------



## jtwrace

Having heard your prior system, I look forward to hopefully hearing this someday. Any shows in FL that you will attend?


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Jscoyne2 said:


> How do they get the curves on the computer to match the curves of the enclosures so damn well?
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


VERY VERY CAREFULLYY:laugh::surprised:

All jokes aside, a laser template maybe?


----------



## Zippy

The build is looking awesome Erin. I’m so happy for you. I’m figuring you’ll have it back and tuned multiple time before the next NCSQ get together which seems to be the only time I get to chat with you in person. I’m already putting you at the top of my must listen to list for then.


----------



## billw

Jscoyne2 said:


> How do they get the curves on the computer to match the curves of the enclosures so damn well?
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


If you go back to post 106, you can see that he cut the pieces for the enclosure on the cnc as well. So the computer "knew" the size of the outer ring and then they cut an inner ring(grille) to match.


----------



## nyquistrate

Jscoyne2 said:


> How do they get the curves on the computer to match the curves of the enclosures so damn well?
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


I assume that they kept the design files from the enclosure build. It would be easy to take the negative space from the cavity and create the grille.


----------



## BigAl205




----------



## AVIDEDTR

Show us the butterfly 

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

Amp rack cover. Steve designed it to match the fake air vents on the rear of my car.


----------



## ErinH

And, yes, the TRU logos are flipped. I will flip them around. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

She’s done! I’ll be picking it up tomorrow!
























































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

Beautiful

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

I also had them tint the windows for me. 35% ceramic all around. Air 80 on the windshield. 

I had 20% on my last civic. I didn’t want to go that dark again. The Air 80 is to help block UV and keep the heat down. Makes a big difference. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> I also had them tint the windows for me. 35% ceramic all around. Air 80 on the windshield.
> 
> I had 20% on my last civic. I didn’t want to go that dark again. The Air 80 is to help block UV and keep the heat down. Makes a big difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now you're just showing off 

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

AVIDEDTR said:


> Now you're just showing off
> 
> Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


Ha! Well, in the south, good tint is practically a necessity.

Especially for me since I drive toward the sun 40 miles going to and then back home from work. In the summer it takes forever for the car to cool down when you're facing the sun the whole way. So the Air 80 should definitely help that.


----------



## bigbubba

Everything looks incredible. You must be ecstatic to be getting it back. I do have a question, is there a reason for not putting the sub in the rear cubby on the driver side versus where it is now?


----------



## ErinH

bigbubba said:


> Everything looks incredible. You must be ecstatic to be getting it back. I do have a question, is there a reason for not putting the sub in the rear cubby on the driver side versus where it is now?


Someone else mentioned that the subwoofer enclosure was a bit underwhelming given how extreme the dash speaker install is. So, I'm glad you asked because it gives me an opportunity to set the record straight...

Since this will be a car my family takes shorter day/overnight trips in for my daughter's doctor visits out of town (saving my wife's CR-V miles for the long drive vacations), I specifically asked for a simple box that could be removed easily. I didn't want something that I or my wife would have to use a screwdriver to disassemble and tear down to remove. A regular sized 12" wouldn't fit the side pockets without sticking out far and I didn't want a shallow. So a regular box was the logical option. Frankly, I half expected it to be a simple carpeted enclosure. So Steve over-delivered on my expectation. And I'm very happy with it.


----------



## Mashburn

I’ve been reading for about an hour, and this is stellar! Love what you and Steve put together for this one. I will not be at Finals, but hopefully I’ll get to hear this one some time! Love the car it’s self too. I debated on getting the hatch since that’s what the Type R is based on, but I decided on a 19 SI sedan instead. 
The color of the car with the tint has a great look to it. I also lie how Steve found a way to incorporate the vents on the rear bumper with the install. Top notch man!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigAl205

I was chatting with Erin about the enclosure yesterday. I knew he was going with something removable, and with that awesome acrylic beauty panel, I was wondering if it would be partially covered with the sub in place. I shoulda known better...


----------



## BigAl205

Mashburn said:


> The color of the car with the tint has a great look to it. I also lie how Steve found a way to incorporate the vents on the rear bumper with the install.


Dude, I didn't even notice that. I bet it looks killer walking up to it with the hatch open. Maybe in a future iteration, Steve could cut out the factory vents and use them in an aperiodic configuration


----------



## bigbubba

I gotcha. I wasn't sure of the size of the cubby and I was thinking you were running a 10", didn't go back and look at your component list. I agree with what you said. The box design Steve came up with looks amazing.


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

ErinH said:


> Ha! Well, in the south, good tint is practically a necessity.
> 
> Especially for me since I drive toward the sun 40 miles going to and then back home from work. In the summer it takes forever for the car to cool down when you're facing the sun the whole way. So the Air 80 should definitely help that.


What will be the first song you play?


----------



## ErinH

Huckleberry Sound said:


> What will be the first song you play?




Purple Rain
or
Everybody Wants to Rule the World
or
Good Vibrations


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Enjoy!


----------



## ToNasty

How is the box mounted?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> Purple Rain
> 
> or
> 
> Everybody Wants to Rule the World
> 
> or
> 
> Good Vibrations



Awe man... Tears for Fears of course! Cmon man it’s such a stellar recording. That’d be my pick fo sho!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## ToNasty

Babs said:


> Awe man... Tears for Fears of course! Cmon man it’s such a stellar recording. That’d be my pick fo sho!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


My motto is "if listening to madonna is gay, then I don't wanna be straight"

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## BigAl205

Irene Cara- Flashdance (What a Feeling)


----------



## Niebur3

Looks fantastic. Is there a grille for the sub?


----------



## ErinH

Niebur3 said:


> Looks fantastic. Is there a grille for the sub?


I have one for it.


----------



## DaveG

Absolutely KILLER! Congratulations! Perfect! What JL sub are you running? Enclosure size? I'm assuming sealed and what made you go the way you did? I ask because I know you're knowledgeable and gave this a lot of thought. Systems like this aren't just thrown together. Very impressive and how's it sound? Dave


----------



## mumbles

Wow Erin, I step away for a bit and come back to a stellar amp rack cover and sub enclosure! Steve is ultra creative and you are lucky to have him as an installer!

Don't want to thread jack, so just going to drop this here for *your *benefit...

Appointment, 1 Nov 2019


----------



## JCsAudio

Erin,

How does the box stay secure in the vehicle? Is there some way that is is fastened in the back? Looks awesome! 

Thanks


----------



## ErinH

Not sure yet.


----------



## ErinH

mumbles said:


> Appointment, 1 Nov 2019


Woot woot!


----------



## JayinMI

I like that he even worked your initials into the box.

Jay


----------



## BigAl205

I got to see it Saturday, and it looks even better in person.


----------



## tonynca

Interested in seeing measurements at 1/12 smoothing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ErinH

I picked the car up Saturday. I haven’t posted because I’ve been busy running my kid around for birthday parties. 

So, here’s my impressions of the build…

There’s not much to say that I haven’t already said. I’ve been getting updates from Steve as I go and I’ve been updating this build log as I receive those updates. So, there was no real “unveiling” or surprises. Still, seeing it in person is a different ballgame. The craftsmanship is stellar. Everything from the sail panel tweeters to the trunk. Even the wiring was nice and tidy and easy to follow when I had to start the process of setting up the DSP and adjusting the amps’ gains. 

The trunk is just friggin’ sweet. I’ve always wanted something that I could show off a bit but my fab skills never permitted it. The way Steve used the fake rear vents of the car as a design basis for the amp rack cover was sweet. And, I admit it, I’m a sucker for dancing LEDs; I must have spent an hour total just staring in the trunk. My 8yo daughter even showed it off to her friends and they were blown away. LOL. 

This build is everything I wanted it to be and more. One of those “and more” things they did which I thought was really cool was they wired up the amp rack’s LEDs to where they come on/off when you open/close the trunk. I know this isn’t groundbreaking stuff. I just think it’s a neat added touch. I also like the way they incorporated the mini voltage display up front in a way that’s visible but doesn’t look out of place. That came in handy yesterday while I was tuning. Having that display right there at the console is so much better than having a DMM sitting in the hood. 

Overall, I absolutely love what Steve and his crew at Audio X did in this build. It fit all my needs perfectly. I can’t give those guys enough praise.


----------



## ErinH




----------



## cmusic

Are you going to make it to finals for sure?


----------



## ErinH

cmusic said:


> Are you going to make it to finals for sure?


Yep. I'll be there. I started tuning it yesterday. I got it respectable but there's some things that need more attention before I am willing to call it "good enough".


----------



## cmusic

ErinH said:


> Yep. I'll be there. I started tuning it yesterday. I got it respectable but there's some things that need more attention before I am willing to call it "good enough".


Great! I should be there on Saturday and I would love to have a listen if you don't mind.


----------



## ErinH

cmusic said:


> Great! I should be there on Saturday and I would love to have a listen if you don't mind.


Of course! Anyone is more than welcome to get a listen. Just track me down if I’m not near the car. :thumbsup:


----------



## ErinH

Realized I took some pictures of the engine bay wiring and the power supply but forgot to post them. So here we go. 





















And also a cool shot of the car I took the other night ...


----------



## ErinH

I also took the door panels off and treated them with some CLD and CCF to help tame some resonances. I applied some foam stripping and other bits here and there to help the cause, too. 

Before:





















After:


----------



## BigAl205

How are you liking the tint?


----------



## ErinH

BigAl205 said:


> How are you liking the tint?


Love it. I highly recommend it (I assume you're talking about the windshield since we discussed it Saturday).


----------



## Gas Is Expensive

ErinH said:


> I also took the door panels off and treated them with some CLD and CCF to help tame some resonances. I applied some foam stripping and other bits here and there to help the cause, too.
> 
> Before:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After:


Is there a particular reason why you're not using "FAST" rings or surrounding the GB60 with foam rings of some sort?


----------



## ErinH

There's already a plastic 'ring' in the door panel. With the spacer rings on the door for the midbass now the speaker lines up with that plastic ring. But, really, it's a midbass speaker; a foam ring around it isn't going to do anything to stop 300hz from propagating.


----------



## Gas Is Expensive

Makes sense. Thanks.


----------



## BigAl205

ErinH said:


> Love it. I highly recommend it (I assume you're talking about the windshield since we discussed it Saturday).


Yeah, I was just wondering if you're convinced the ceramic is better than the regular tint. Also, I was wondering if it impedes your night driving.

BTW...your install looks cool, too


----------



## dgage

BigAl205 said:


> How are you liking the tint?


I do it to all my cars too. In the middle of summer I rolled down the window at a drive thru and was hit by a blast of heat. After placing my order I rolled the window back up and instantly the heat blast stopped. So the special ceramic heat tint is amazing and definitely worth it in warmer climates. My friend’s wife bought a new car and she got a sunburn from the windshield as she forgot about the new car not having tint. She had the ceramic installed on her car the next week.

Edit: And no issues noticed with clear ceramic windshield tint.


----------



## ErinH

BigAl205 said:


> Yeah, I was just wondering if you're convinced the ceramic is better than the regular tint. Also, I was wondering if it impedes your night driving.
> 
> BTW...your install looks cool, too


Gotcha. 

Nope, no issue with night driving with the Air 80 on the front. And coming from 20% with my old car to 35% on this one is a nice change because it's easier to see. But it still does a good job to provide some privacy and keep heat down. So, yea, if you're on the fence, definitely get it done.


----------



## Gas Is Expensive

BigAl205 said:


> ErinH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Love it. I highly recommend it (I assume you're talking about the windshield since we discussed it Saturday).
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I was just wondering if you're convinced the ceramic is better than the regular tint. Also, I was wondering if it impedes your night driving.
> 
> BTW...your install looks cool, too <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

I'm in Michigan (these days we only have two seasons here, summer and winter) and have ceramic tint on my front windows and windshield. The interior stays MUCH cooler in the summer. Side windows are tinted at 25% and windshield at 18% and visibility is fine at night. I've never had a problem seeing out.


----------



## bbfoto

ErinH said:


> Realized I took some pictures of the engine bay wiring and the power supply but forgot to post them. So here we go.
> 
> And also a cool shot of the car I took the other night ...


Killer shot of the car! Looks REALLY nice, Erin. :thumbsup: Great stance and I actually think the OEM wheels look great on the car.

Nice placement of the Anderson Power Pole charging connector on top of the battery, too. I like it!

That ceramic tint makes a huge difference...use it on most of my personal vehicles, but it's in all of my photo/movie equipment grip truck cabs. Love it.

One of my film crew guys liked it so he dedlcided to put in his personal Tacoma as well. But he wasn't specific and the tint installers put some cheap @ss crap that "rainbows" the windshield when he wears his polarized sun glasses.  So guys, check that out on the specific tint you decide on before having it installed. Drives him crazy now. 

Have fun and good luck at finals with the new sled & system!


----------



## bertholomey

What a beautiful car in person - the style of the car, the color, the tint, and best of all the aesthetic of the install. 

As Al stated - the install looks even better in person. And of course it sounded fantastic! Erin chose incredible equipment, and the installation was top notch. And, on top of that - Erin put a very impressive tune on it. If you get a chance - definitely get a demo!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## dumdum

The bigger question is how did it do at finals? ?

Ignore me! Not 2019 Stolen from Facebook... 0.2 behind Steve head isn’t a bad result for a virgin install ?? Edit I can’t read dates ?


----------



## Mic10is

dumdum said:


> The bigger question is how did it do at finals? ?
> 
> Stolen from Facebook... 0.2 behind Steve head isn’t a bad result for a virgin install ?? Nice job!


Steve Head didn't compete this year so I'm not sure what year that is from


----------



## BigAl205

dumdum said:


> The bigger question is how did it do at finals? ?
> 
> Stolen from Facebook... 0.2 behind Steve head isn’t a bad result for a virgin install ?? Nice job!





Mic10is said:


> Steve Head didn't compete this year so I'm not sure what year that is from


The image shows Oct 15, 2018


----------



## m3gunner

MECA 2019 results video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh6aZkzmp1o


----------



## dumdum

Mic10is said:


> Steve Head didn't compete this year so I'm not sure what year that is from


Just checking you were all awake ? sorry guys I missed that bit...


----------



## doitor

Got to listen to the car at Finals this weekend.
It was definitely the best sounding car (with purple amps) in the entire show.
By the way, the amps arent as "Barney purple" as the pics show.
It was great to see you again and I hope you enjoy the car and the bad ass sound system.

J.


----------



## DavidRam

Erin are you tuning this with the MiniDSP and DIRAC??


----------



## ErinH

dumdum said:


> The bigger question is how did it do at finals? ?



I competed in IASCA Finals and got dead last in my class apparently. I could say negative things about that whole ordeal but I'm not gonna touch it other but suffice it to say I don’t agree with it. 

I didn’t compete in MECA Finals but I did compete in the 2x. No idea how I did there, yet. Since this car doesn’t come stock with factory speakers in the dash and we made some for that location I was either going to have to compete in ModEx or Extreme. I figured I might as well go ahead and put myself in Extreme. That way when I lose I can have an excuse about using what would otherwise be ‘stock’ locations. LOL


Personally, I was/am happy with how the system sounded at the event, though. It isn’t where I want it to be yet. I just got it back last week so I’m still learning this car. And Dirac Live wound up needing a good bit of help from me (about 4-5 hours’ worth of post-DL tuning). But, as a whole, I really do like the new car and new system more than I liked my old one. And I absolutely love the install. I was concerned that the speakers and the relatively ‘stock’ nature of the install would limit me but I don’t think that’s the case at all. It _jams _and is enjoyable as heck. Just gonna take me some more time learning it, playing with different crossovers, finding rattles/buzzes and fixing them and all the other stuff to get the most out of it. :thumbsup:


----------



## ErinH

doitor said:


> Got to listen to the car at Finals this weekend.
> It was definitely the best sounding car (with purple amps) in the entire show.
> By the way, the amps arent as "Barney purple" as the pics show.
> It was great to see you again and I hope you enjoy the car and the bad ass sound system.
> 
> J.


Thanks for the feedback at finals. I took it and applied it and it helped. 

Good seeing you again, Jorge. Hope to see you again soon. Take care, Danny!


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

ErinH said:


> No idea how I did at the show this weekend. I competed in IASCA Finals… I had to cut out early but I have a feeling I didn’t’ do well there based on what I’ve heard others say about some scores not being good. I didn’t compete in MECA Finals but I did compete in the 2x. No idea how I did there, either.
> 
> Since this car doesn’t come stock with factory speakers in the dash and we made some for that location I was either going to have to compete in ModEx or Extreme. I figured I might as well go ahead and put myself in Extreme. That way when I lose I can have an excuse about using what would otherwise be ‘stock’ locations. LOL
> 
> 
> Personally, I was/am happy with how the system sounded at the event, though. It isn’t where I want it to be yet. I just got it back last week so I’m still learning this car. And Dirac Live wound up needing a good bit of help from me (about 4-5 hours’ worth of post-DL tuning). But, as a whole, I really do like the new car and new system more than I liked my old one. And I absolutely love the install. I was concerned that the speakers and the relatively ‘stock’ nature of the install would limit me but I don’t think that’s the case at all. It _jams _and is enjoyable as heck. Just gonna take me some more time learning it, playing with different crossovers, finding rattles/buzzes and fixing them and all the other stuff to get the most out of it. :thumbsup:



Your thoughts about the driver, Dyn 430, playing off the windshield. If I remember correctly your last system had a directional driver. What differences are you noticing?

Nice work. Great Install. I would love to hear it one day!


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

You'll get there. Just keep on sweet talking the processor and call her a dirty girl when necessary, hehe. Man extreme class is no joke but you built the car for your personal enjoyment and that's all that matters in the end.Can't wait to get some seat time in it.


----------



## locoface

Was nice meeting you Erin, car sounded great it’s how I would like mine to sound for a daily fun drive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbubba

I was able to get some time in the car at Finals and was thoroughly impressed in how it looked and sounded. I know you didn't have long to tweak on it but I have no doubt you will get it where you want it quickly. I did have a reservation as to the midbass size, if they would be to your liking, considering what you had before. But that damn thing would jam! Can't wait to hear it again next season.


----------



## ErinH

Thanks, guys. Good seeing you this weekend! Kelly, see you soon! Yacdiel, safe travels home, man.


----------



## ErinH

bertholomey said:


> What a beautiful car in person - the style of the car, the color, the tint, and best of all the aesthetic of the install.
> 
> As Al stated - the install looks even better in person. And of course it sounded fantastic! Erin chose incredible equipment, and the installation was top notch. And, on top of that - Erin put a very impressive tune on it. If you get a chance - definitely get a demo!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


First of all, it was great hanging out with you this weekend. Wish we had more time. Your car sounded great as well. I look forward to another NCSQ meet.


----------



## BigAl205

ErinH said:


> ... and got dead last in my class apparently.


But looked good doing it!




Not you...the car


----------



## ErinH

BigAl205 said:


> But looked good doing it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not you...the car


Quit trying to hide it. You know you meant both me and the car.


----------



## BigAl205

nooOOOO...I'm pretty sure I meant just the car


----------



## Hillbilly SQ

Erin, did you wear the wig? That coulda boosted the score up a little...


----------



## cmusic

Thanks Erin for letting me have a listen on Saturday. I'm surprised on the competition results but remember how new the install is and how little tuning you got in before the hardest show of the year. Your Civic has an incredible install thanks to Steve Cook and John Yi told me how he personally built your Tru amps. I think the speakers need some more time to break in (especially the Dyns) and more fine tuning time is needed. The system sounded great but I know there is a lot more potential available in the system as it stands now. I bet that by next year the system will be better and ready to take on all challengers in your class.


----------



## ErinH

Thanks, Chuck. I appreciate your feedback at the show as well. Was nice to finally meet you in person.


----------



## ErinH

ErinH said:


> I didn’t compete in MECA Finals but I did compete in the 2x. No idea how I did there, yet.


Scores for the 2x were posted today. I got 4th in Extreme behind Ben Zimmerman, Steve Weigner, and Tim Smith and 10th overall out of 66 competitors. Takes the sting out of being "DFL" (lol, Ben) in IASCA. 

Not sure I see me doing better than 4th in Extreme at another big event like this because Ben, Steve and Tim all have incredible sounding cars. Not to mention the rest of the class. But hopefully I can make up enough points to get myself in to a more competitive position points wise and overall just get this thing where I want it to be.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> Takes the sting out of being "DFL" (lol, Ben) in IASCA.


Hmm.....:hanged::rifle:


----------



## rton20s

ErinH said:


> Scores for the 2x were posted today. I got 4th in Extreme behind Ben Zimmerman, Steve Weigner, and Tim Smith and 10th overall out of 66 competitors. Takes the sting out of being "DFL" (lol, Ben) in IASCA.
> 
> Not sure I see me doing better than 4th in Extreme at another big event like this because Ben, Steve and Tim all have incredible sounding cars. Not to mention the rest of the class. But hopefully I can make up enough points to get myself in to a more competitive position points wise and overall just get this thing where I want it to be.


Is there any reason you wouldn't be allowed to compete in ModEx? It would seem to me that the dash modifications you did are legal there.


----------



## ErinH

rton20s said:


> Is there any reason you wouldn't be allowed to compete in ModEx? It would seem to me that the dash modifications you did are legal there.



I got you, boo. 



ErinH said:


> Since this car doesn’t come stock with factory speakers in the dash and we made some for that location I was either going to have to compete in ModEx or Extreme. I figured I might as well go ahead and put myself in Extreme. That way when I lose I can have an excuse about using what would otherwise be ‘stock’ locations. LOL


----------



## preston

Interested to hear your thoughts on the sound vs some of your other setups.

How is the response of the dash speakers ? After reading that whitepaper it seems like the windshield on that car must be pretty rakes, certainly more than 55 degrees, yet the mid seems like it is not angled nor is very far from the dash apex, ie the speaker position isn't following the white paper suggestions. Any thoughts on that or is there something I'm not understanding about that positioning. 

Are you willing to share your x-over points or any other items of interest in your tune ? 
How hard was it to blend, etc.


----------



## ErinH

preston said:


> Interested to hear your thoughts on the sound vs some of your other setups.
> 
> How is the response of the dash speakers ? After reading that whitepaper it seems like the windshield on that car must be pretty rakes, certainly more than 55 degrees, yet the mid seems like it is not angled nor is very far from the dash apex, ie the speaker position isn't following the white paper suggestions. Any thoughts on that or is there something I'm not understanding about that positioning.
> 
> Are you willing to share your x-over points or any other items of interest in your tune ?
> How hard was it to blend, etc.


I can’t really give any details at this point. Not because I don’t want to. But because I don’t have them. When I got the car back I had only a few days to get it ready for finals. Thus, my tuning time consisted of: 1) Use arbitrary crossover points/slopes to keep the drivers in a notional bandpass that would ideally limit power concerns (i.e., don’t pop the tweeter) and don’t push the mid too far past where it is beaming. I threw 3500hz/24dB on the DSP as the crossover point. 2) Run Dirac Live.

That ultimately consisted of me doing a bit of manual tweaking again both before and after Dirac Live. I spent a good deal of time finessing the sub and midbass crossover because DL just doesn’t do that as well as I would like. Currently the crossover on the sub is 80hz/48dB. The left midbass is 84hz/48dB. The right midbass is 80hz/48dB. The left midbass is a little higher because there’s a null and subsequent pull to the door around 70-80hz. EVERY SINGLE CAR has an issue like this. Crossing lower, in to this creates more problems than it solves, IME. It’s worth noting the difference between crossing my left midbass at 70hz vs 80hz is night and day; crossing lower results in the sub pulling more to the rear, regardless of slope/phase configuration. Other than a rattle in the trunk, this configuration worked the best. I would have to cross the sub at about 50hz to avoid that rattle which isn’t worth sacrificing the output; I’ll fix that rattle. But the point is more that I didn’t get “all scientific” with it. I just wanted to have a system that was playing, wasn’t overtly problematic, and jammed. It did that.

I plan to dig in to the car and the tune to understand the limitations of the mids and work to refine the crossover point. I’ll also revisit the sub/midbass. Basically, everything is up for grabs. When I get to that point I’ll be happy to share the data. I have nothing to hide, as evidenced by all my past build log’s posts. I just don’t have anything meaningful to share at this point. 


Having said all of that, I can say with _absolute certainty_ I like this new system more. Not just sound, but _everything_. The entire package. From the stealth looking install to the overall sound and the output. Kelly mentioned above that he had reservations about the output capabilities of the system compared to what I had before. And as he said … this thing jams.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> I’ll fix that rattle. But the point is more that I didn’t get “all scientific” with it. I just wanted to have a system that was playing, wasn’t overtly problematic, and jammed. It did that.


I loved it. It's a F**cken sleeper Dude.
Keep up the great tuning work!


----------



## ErinH

AVIDEDTR said:


> I loved it. It's a F**cken sleeper Dude.
> Keep up the great tuning work!


Thanks, man.

Between yours, Jorge's, Chuck's and Steve Cook's input at the show I made some changes and improved the system. Most of you guys said that the lower midrange was too chesty (in various ways). Sure enough, I sat in the car and listened to pink noise and found that 250-300hz was _way _hot. On the drive up, I heard some songs where I thought it sounded resonant in that area but didn't pursue it because I honestly thought "hey, maybe it's supposed to be that way and I've just been missing out", lol. I didn't bring headphones to listen to as a reference so I just moved on. But, nope.... I had to cut about 10-12dB on both sides. When I had kicks it was the right midbass only that required that cut but to my surprise both midbass required some significant cutting there. Been a _long _time since I've ran door midbass so I think that may be something I'll have to keep an eye (ear) out for in the future when I scrap this tune and start over. But it was useful and necessary "recalibration" for me to go to this show and get that feedback. :thumbsup:


----------



## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> Been a _long _time since I've ran door midbass so I think that may be something I'll have to keep an eye (ear) out for in the future when I scrap this tune and start over. But it was useful and necessary "recalibration" for me to go to this show and get that feedback. :thumbsup:


Just reverse the phase on both midbasses and crank the gain till the frog jumps the gap. Once you do that, you'll achieve EPIC STATUS :laugh::beerchug:


----------



## cmusic

ErinH said:


> Thanks, man.
> 
> Between yours, Jorge's, Chuck's and Steve Cook's input at the show I made some changes and improved the system. Most of you guys said that the lower midrange was too chesty (in various ways). Sure enough, I sat in the car and listened to pink noise and found that 250-300hz was _way _hot. On the drive up, I heard some songs where I thought it sounded resonant in that area but didn't pursue it because I honestly thought "hey, maybe it's supposed to be that way and I've just been missing out", lol. I didn't bring headphones to listen to as a reference so I just moved on. But, nope.... I had to cut about 10-12dB on both sides. When I had kicks it was the right midbass only that required that cut but to my surprise both midbass required some significant cutting there. Been a _long _time since I've ran door midbass so I think that may be something I'll have to keep an eye (ear) out for in the future when I scrap this tune and start over. But it was useful and necessary "recalibration" for me to go to this show and get that feedback. :thumbsup:


Reading your post above made me think of the red Tesla Model S that won the MECA stock class. As I was listening to it the owner said he was having a cancellation in his door midbasses at around 180 Hz. He said the width of the car was about equal to the length of a 180 Hz test tone. Since both midbasses were aimed directly across from each other, and the center console had a gap in it that allowed the sound wave to pass to the other side, when both waves from each speaker met the result was causing the cancellation.

Perhaps the exact opposite is happening in your car, sounds in the 250-300 range from both door speakers are combining to have a large hump OR sounds in the octave below your hump (125-250) are canceling out and causing the octave above to sound louder. 

One trick I have done myself in the past when I used door mounted midbasses was to use an angled mounting ring that aimed the midbass slightly towards the center firewall area of the car. I always thought it worked because it made the near side speaker slightly less loud and it would help balance out the volume differences in the left and right channels for a better stereo effect. But it also could help frequency peaks and cancellations since the speakers won't be aimed directly at each other. Just something to maybe try over the winter.

I did find a cool frequency wave chart online while I was writing this post.


----------



## AVIDEDTR

This would help if it could be accomplished in a door.


!!!!!motorized baffles!!!!!


----------



## ErinH

Typically what you get in the midbass region is both sides filling in the gaps/peaks of the other. When you measure one side at a time from the driver’s seat you get nearly the complete opposite result from the passenger seat. The nearside responses match, and the farside responses match. Meaning, the left side response from the driver’s seat matches the right side response from the passenger seat. Same thing for opposite side speaker from each respective seat. Which is why I believe DL isn’t as useful here; it’s measuring one side at a time and when both sides are playing they are interacting in a way that is consequential again. The fact that I had to cut both sides makes me think it’s either an effect of Dirac Live (maybe it’s boosting one side to match the other) or it’s a loading of the door panel. It’ll be something I look in to as I go forward. 

Angling the baffle will have no benefit since the midbass are cut off at about 300hz. Even fully removing the console doesn't make an effect in this case; I tested this in my old civic and was prepared to build a new console as an absorption panel if needed. I don't think I ever posted the results... but it seems like it didn't make a difference until I got above about 600hz. But, obviously YMMV since some cars' consoles are much larger than my civic. Some cars, it feels like there is practically a wall between the two halves of the car because the console is so friggin' large.


----------



## Babs

ErinH said:


> Thanks, man.
> 
> 
> 
> Between yours, Jorge's, Chuck's and Steve Cook's input at the show I made some changes and improved the system. Most of you guys said that the lower midrange was too chesty (in various ways). Sure enough, I sat in the car and listened to pink noise and found that 250-300hz was _way _hot. On the drive up, I heard some songs where I thought it sounded resonant in that area but didn't pursue it because I honestly thought "hey, maybe it's supposed to be that way and I've just been missing out", lol. I didn't bring headphones to listen to as a reference so I just moved on. But, nope.... I had to cut about 10-12dB on both sides. When I had kicks it was the right midbass only that required that cut but to my surprise both midbass required some significant cutting there. Been a _long _time since I've ran door midbass so I think that may be something I'll have to keep an eye (ear) out for in the future when I scrap this tune and start over. But it was useful and necessary "recalibration" for me to go to this show and get that feedback. :thumbsup:



That may explain why I loved it with some harder metal stuff I was demoing. It complimented those types of mixes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## captainobvious

Badass build. Wish I found time to listen in Louisville. 


But all the better that *both* of our new builds will be sorted out and sounding much better as we finally get time to work on them. I think we both were in a similar situation of having no time before finals to really go over them and optimize. Heck, I didn't even power the van up until Thursday night before hitting the road to Louisville.


----------



## locoface

Can’t wait to hear v2 of it, with such changes you are working on. 

Midbass in the doors have been my kryptonite to dial in, and even now still trying to perfect. Tactile feedback is such a distraction. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fatthumb

ErinH said:


> Typically what you get in the midbass region is both sides filling in the gaps/peaks of the other. When you measure one side at a time from the driver’s seat you get nearly the complete opposite result from the passenger seat. The nearside responses match, and the farside responses match. Meaning, the left side response from the driver’s seat matches the right side response from the passenger seat. Same thing for opposite side speaker from each respective seat. Which is why I believe DL isn’t as useful here; it’s measuring one side at a time and when both sides are playing they are interacting in a way that is consequential again. The fact that I had to cut both sides makes me think it’s either an effect of Dirac Live (maybe it’s boosting one side to match the other) or it’s a loading of the door panel. It’ll be something I look in to as I go forward.
> 
> Angling the baffle will have no benefit since the midbass are cut off at about 300hz. Even fully removing the console doesn't make an effect in this case; I tested this in my old civic and was prepared to build a new console as an absorption panel if needed. I don't think I ever posted the results... but it seems like it didn't make a difference until I got above about 600hz. But, obviously YMMV since some cars' consoles are much larger than my civic. Some cars, it feels like there is practically a wall between the two halves of the car because the console is so friggin' large.


Hi Erin, in this case what would u do? Put on a matching dip on the other side?
I have exact same problem with GB60 running in my Mitsubishi Mirage door. 
https://pasteboard.co/IDhtFiB.jpg


----------



## ErinH

locoface said:


> Midbass in the doors have been my kryptonite to dial in, and even now still trying to perfect. Tactile feedback is such a distraction.


Are you talking about tactile from the door panel itself? If so, there’s really not much you can do to completely get rid of that without some serious modifications to the panel or building a legitimate enclosure. You’ve got two big issues: 1) mechanical energy transferring from the sheet metal to the door panel and 2) acoustical energy radiating in to the door panel and causing vibration. So you need to decouple the panel from the sheet metal and you also need to keep any acoustic energy from getting trapped inside the panel (build out of the door panel).

In a funny way, the vibration from the door kind of helps with the “bass up front” illusion. You feel it at your arm so that’s where it is. 





Fatthumb said:


> Hi Erin, in this case what would u do? Put on a matching dip on the other side?
> I have exact same problem with GB60 running in my Mitsubishi Mirage door.


I can’t see the image but I’m assuming you’re talking about the typical driver’s side dip in the 70-90hz region? If so, you either physically move the driver somewhere else or you let another driver fill it in. The latter is the only real option. So, that’s why I cross my sub higher and let it fill in that null.


----------



## Fatthumb

ErinH said:


> I can’t see the image but I’m assuming you’re talking about the typical driver’s side dip in the 70-90hz region? If so, you either physically move the driver somewhere else or you let another driver fill it in. The latter is the only real option. So, that’s why I cross my sub higher and let it fill in that null.


Uploaded to google photos, hopefully below link works.
My dip is at 138Hz and pretty nasty.








https://photos.app.goo.gl/St9qNomwV4CKuNde8


----------



## ErinH

Welcome to car audio.

You can't fix a lot of stuff in the midbass region. The only thing you can do is to use another speaker to help offset those issues but then you create other problems. This is a case where one could try a "midbass array", where you have another set of midbass located somewhere else in the car to help fill in those gaps. But doing this isn't without it's own issues and IMHO isn't worth the cost and added complexity.


----------



## Fatthumb

ErinH said:


> Welcome to car audio.
> 
> You can't fix a lot of stuff in the midbass region. The only thing you can do is to use another speaker to help offset those issues but then you create other problems. This is a case where one could try a "midbass array", where you have another set of midbass located somewhere else in the car to help fill in those gaps. But doing this isn't without it's own issues and IMHO isn't worth the cost and added complexity.


Yeah but i am also not going to the direction of adding drivers so I guess my best bet is to create matching dip and EQ the rest to roughly match each other?


----------



## ErinH

I wouldn't do that. 

When you are in the car, do you hear that issue? Does it pull to one or the other? Most of the time, these things are somewhat filled in by the opposite side. 

Your call, though.


----------



## Fatthumb

ErinH said:


> I wouldn't do that.
> 
> When you are in the car, do you hear that issue? Does it pull to one or the other? Most of the time, these things are somewhat filled in by the opposite side.
> 
> Your call, though.


Very noticeable with mono tone, with music not always noticeable. But a center drum notes will definitely be pulled to one side without eq ing.


----------



## locoface

ErinH said:


> Are you talking about tactile from the door panel itself? If so, there’s really not much you can do to completely get rid of that without some serious modifications to the panel or building a legitimate enclosure. You’ve got two big issues: 1) mechanical energy transferring from the sheet metal to the door panel and 2) acoustical energy radiating in to the door panel and causing vibration. So you need to decouple the panel from the sheet metal and you also need to keep any acoustic energy from getting trapped inside the panel (build out of the door panel).
> 
> In a funny way, the vibration from the door kind of helps with the “bass up front” illusion. You feel it at your arm so that’s where it is.


True.... i'll add it to the build log to added realism. LOL.


----------



## Zippy

ErinH said:


> Are you talking about tactile from the door panel itself? If so, there’s really not much you can do to completely get rid of that without some serious modifications to the panel or building a legitimate enclosure. You’ve got two big issues: 1) mechanical energy transferring from the sheet metal to the door panel and 2) acoustical energy radiating in to the door panel and causing vibration. So you need to decouple the panel from the sheet metal and you also need to keep any acoustic energy from getting trapped inside the panel (build out of the door panel).
> 
> 
> 
> In a funny way, the vibration from the door kind of helps with the “bass up front” illusion. You feel it at your arm so that’s where it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t see the image but I’m assuming you’re talking about the typical driver’s side dip in the 70-90hz region? If so, you either physically move the driver somewhere else or you let another driver fill it in. The latter is the only real option. So, that’s why I cross my sub higher and let it fill in that null.




The only good solution is what Gary Summers did with his Mercedes door midbass enclosures. You should be able to search the forum for photos.


----------



## dgage

So Erin, how are you liking the midbass in a normal though deadened door? Do you notice much of a difference from your pro midbasses in the kick? I’m considering a pair of 6.5s in deadened doors or 8/10s in Gary Summer-esque door enclosures. Thanks.


----------



## preston

Always a very interesting question for me. I've done a couple doors now - 1-3 layers of dynamat or equivalent on the outside and inside door surface, strong baffle reinforcement on the driver, even welded doubler plates in the baffle mounting area. . Sheet aluminum riveted to cover holes. MLV layer. On my truck I put the "fiberglass insulation in plastic bags" taped to the outside door surface (but not behind the driver). The only thing I haven't done is black hole tiles or such. MOdelling clay along the baffle. 

And sounds bad... well definitely colored by door resonance at any real volume. I can mitigate if I cross at 100Hz although I like to run midbass down to 80. Its not something you hear right away at full spectrum, but you turn off the other drivers and its clear as day or should I say clear as mud. I see all these high end cars running door mid-bass and I can't figure out how its working for them . In both cases I am running HAT 8" legatia. 

I ended up building enclosures in my truck and it was a huge improvement. Huge.
I'm getting ready to build them in my other vehicle now because I can't stand the distortion/resonance/coloring.

Don't know what I'm doing wrong but intersted in Erin's experience.

Here is my truck door before I built the enclosures without the MLV layer- Maybe its just because a truck has soooo much sheetmetal, but I have the same issue in my Cadillac. And I don't have the most golden ears by any means


----------



## captainobvious

Fatthumb said:


> Very noticeable with mono tone, with music not always noticeable. But a center drum notes will definitely be pulled to one side without eq ing.



You'll miss the tonal gap more than you will some occasional slight pulling so as Erin said, I wouldn't add the dip.


----------



## ErinH

Nick took some videos of different system walkthroughs at Finals. Figured I'd share the one we made of mine.


----------



## bertholomey

Loved It!!! Awesome job my friend!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## ErinH

bertholomey said:


> Loved It!!! Awesome job my friend!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I'll say "thanks"... but Nick did all the work. I just stood there and yapped. Nothing new for me. :laugh: 

Though, if I had it to do over again I would have gone in to a bit more detail on some things like you did in yours. Oh, well. Maybe next time.


----------



## Chris12

Great video. It’s nice to see the faces behind the screen names.

Something interesting you touched on was having a safe car to drive.

As different driver placement ideas float through my head, the option of putting my mids in the A pillars usually comes up.

Then I wonder what would happen if the airbags in the a pillars deployed and it gives me pause..

Then I begin thinking about stock dash corner placement again, then the cycle repeats, and so on


----------



## SkizeR

Chris12 said:


> Great video. It’s nice to see the faces behind the screen names.
> 
> 
> 
> Something interesting you touched on was having a safe car to drive.
> 
> 
> 
> As different driver placement ideas float through my head, the option of putting my mids in the A pillars usually comes up.
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wonder what would happen if the airbags in the a pillars deployed and it gives me pause..
> 
> 
> 
> Then I begin thinking about stock dash corner placement again, then the cycle repeats, and so on


The airbags will be fine if you have speakers in your pillars. The pillar airbags done work like how everyone thinks they do.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## [email protected]

Yep, on the Civics the pillar barely moves.


----------



## ErinH

Yes, most a-pillar safety bags are designed so that the pillar trim is still attached but only pops out enough to allow deployment of the bag. The last thing the manufacturer wants to do is design the safety system where it turns a piece of the car's interior in to a projectile as well.

Still, my comment in the video stands.


----------



## Notloudenuf

ErinH said:


> Yes, most a-pillar safety bags are designed so that the pillar trim is still attached but only pops out enough to allow deployment of the bag. The last thing the manufacturer wants to do is design the safety system where it turns a piece of the car's interior in to a projectile as well.
> 
> Still, my comment in the video stands.


Takata Would Like to know Your Location


----------



## JayinMI

[email protected] said:


> Yep, on the Civics the pillar barely moves.


Hey JOey, 

you didn't have to blow those airbags up just for demonstration purposes. But Thanks. lol

Jay


----------



## bbfoto

ErinH said:


> I'll say "thanks"... but Nick did all the work. I just stood there and yapped. Nothing new for me. :laugh:
> 
> Though, if I had it to do over again I would have gone in to a bit more detail on some things like you did in yours. Oh, well. Maybe next time.


Great video none the less! You can always post your own "addendum" video where you discuss those finer details. However, you must wear the pinkish-purple wig while doing so.


----------



## ErinH

The install was featured in this month's Mobile Electronics Mag. Joey asked me if I'd be interested in writing something up about the install to provide some insights for the mag and highlight the work Steve and his crew put in on this build. So, of course I was happy to oblige. 









Mobile Electronics Magazine - December 2019


The Industry's #1 Resource




issuu.com


----------



## Niebur3

Awesome Erin!!!! Congrats!!!!


----------



## dgage

Really nice Erin!


----------



## Huckleberry Sound

Amazing sir!!!


----------



## ErinH

Thanks, guys.


----------



## preston

I really enjoyed that article. Even though it didn't cover much more than what you're already presented in this thread I still picked up a few interesting nuggets and the pictures were good. Maybe I just miss the days of a good old magazine article. 

Question for you Erin - ignoring the visuals and stock appearing desires, do you think any of your previous combos out shine this setup in pure audio terms ? I'm particularly interested in the BMS co-axials as those speakers have fascinated me ever since you installed them. Will you just say that all of the equipment sounded good and it depends on install and tuning bla bla bla ? Was there anything truly special about the BMS ? I'm also curious if you still think the GB25 combo held its own compared to using a larger midrange.


----------



## dgage

And I’m interested in whether there was much drop off with the GB60s in unmodified doors vs the huge modifications done in the kicks to hold much bigger drivers.


----------



## Babs

preston said:


> ..do you think any of your previous combos out shine this setup in pure audio terms ? I'm particularly interested in the BMS co-axials as those speakers have fascinated me ever since you installed them. Will you just say that all of the equipment sounded good and it depends on install and tuning bla bla bla ? Was there anything truly special about the BMS ? I'm also curious if you still think the GB25 combo held its own compared to using a larger midrange.


I will just say if I may my own opinion hearing it at finals and hearing I think about all of the last of the old Civic iterations, this car slays the old Civic. The stage is very very nice, imaging excellent, and the tonality I heard made it an absolute joy. The separation and detail is leaps and bounds above. One of the biggest and I believe significant differences is, you don't SEE the system.. It's just there unobtrusively making beautiful music without the visual ques of big drivers in the pillars staring at you. I went through my entire library hunting for tracks to see if the system would struggle.. Interestingly, the way Erin had the tonality setup, it really wanted to rock.. Metal sounded freaking fun! That's usually kinda difficult to do as typically metal can get harsh through the midrange. Yet the system still had the delicacy and detail to pull off jazz or classical or vocal pieces with great stage presentation.



dgage said:


> And I’m interested in whether there was much drop off with the GB60s in unmodified doors vs the huge modifications done in the kicks to hold much bigger drivers.


I found the midbass to be very natural and impactful without strain. I don't believe there's anything left for desire from it. There is that whole kickpanel vs doors debate, but I believe in this car with the treatment work Steve did and great driver choice, there would be no real return on investment by the major modding to go to kicks. I also found the substage to midbass integration as good in this car as with any prior setup in the old Civic.

With that I'll shut up and let Erin weigh in.


----------



## ErinH

preston said:


> I really enjoyed that article. Even though it didn't cover much more than what you're already presented in this thread I still picked up a few interesting nuggets and the pictures were good. Maybe I just miss the days of a good old magazine article.
> 
> Question for you Erin - ignoring the visuals and stock appearing desires, do you think any of your previous combos out shine this setup in pure audio terms ? I'm particularly interested in the BMS co-axials as those speakers have fascinated me ever since you installed them. Will you just say that all of the equipment sounded good and it depends on install and tuning bla bla bla ? Was there anything truly special about the BMS ? I'm also curious if you still think the GB25 combo held its own compared to using a larger midrange.


Yea, I copy/pasted a lot from my build log to save me time from re-typing the same thing. 

I can’t ignore the visual aspect because it’s part of the _system_. Not seeing the speakers has a psychoacoustic impact. 

Anyway... I’d hands down take the new setup over the old one. The _only _thing I miss about the old setup is that it had more output below about 30hz. The new setup can get surprisingly loud. I've given lots of "full tilt" demos without issue. The new system still needs a better tune, though. I threw Dirac on it and worked on a post-Dirac tune just so I’d have something for finals. It wasn’t what I would consider excellent but it was good enough to get me to the show without being abysmal. I know specific things that need work but I just haven't had the desire to do a new tune. 

Was there anything truly special about the BMS ? Yea... it's a high output coaxial design with good HF driver termination. The downside, though, was the midrange was still a lot lower sensitivity so you had to pad the tweeter down and you also have to deal with system noise creeping in on those 118dB compression drivers. Plus, they take up a lot of real estate. The GB25 was impressive vs a 4 or 5” midrange. You couldn’t treat it like a 5" mid on the low end but if you wanted it to play above 300hz, it was a great choice. Plus, you could cross the tweeter higher since the GB25 could play higher.







dgage said:


> And I’m interested in whether there was much drop off with the GB60s in unmodified doors vs the huge modifications done in the kicks to hold much bigger drivers.


I don’t have any real issues with the output of the GB60’s. Obviously they don’t play as low as the 10’s did but at the crossover point/slope I’m using, they are able to give me plenty of output. Besides that, I don’t have a null in the response on the sub like I did in my old car so I’m able to cross the sub a bit higher and get plenty of output from 60-80hz; more than I did in my old setup. 

The midbass in doors hasn’t been as big an issue as I expected. And it’s definitely quieter from the outside now that you don’t hear the midbass flopping through the firewall holes.  I’ve had some songs that light up the door panels but it’s not to the extent that I’m ready to build kick panels. It’s nice having a stock floor. I imagine at some point I might go with kicks again… maybe once I pay the car off … but I won’t vent externally again because it’s not worth it. Most likely it would be sealed 6 or 8 inch midbass in the kicks. No need for 10’s since the sub can play higher in the hatch than it did with the trunk car. 80hz is adequate for the front midbass.



TL;DR: As with anything car audio there are trade-offs. I’m happy with the car as it sits. I like it more than my old one. And with a better tune on it, I’ll be even happier.


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## dgage

ErinH said:


> TL;DR: As with anything car audio there are trade-offs. I’m happy with the car as it sits. I like it more than my old one. And with a better tune on it, I’ll be even happier.


Audio is a trade-off whether car or home but glad you’re enjoying your current system. It took a lot of work on your old system to make sure there wouldn’t be a lot of on-going work with your new car. I’m glad you reached peace and satisfaction with your new system. Thanks for sharing this current build, your experience, and your journey. You’ve learned a lot and shared a ton with us. Thank you!


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## preston

Thanks Erin we all appreciate your insights. 
In fact this thread gave me the courage to try moving my mids from the kicks to the dash. I had tried dash mids in my truck and did not like the results, but as we know every car is different and so far they are sounding great and its nice to regain the foot room. 

I've continued to be intrigued by the BMS because I always remember your comment "these things sound so realistic I was laughing out loud". Also, if you can fit them, its so nice not to have to find room for the tweeter. These would work great in my truck but hard to imagine if they would really be an improvement over the Scan 12M and Scan tweeter in there now.


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## oabeieo

Lookin awesome Erin!

Okay , so looks like I’ll be paying up , 6mo I see almost up.lol 

Lovin’ the install man.

I have a question for ya , How does the new civ sound compared to the old one as far as the room itself and the plastics and dash and general reflected sounds..

Like compared to the other civic does this one have a similar sound?

I’ve been thinking about wrapping my headliner in a different material and maybe do other things also in my Honda, you have two systems in two Honda’s , How do you think the plastics and materials play into How the room sounds? Have you noticed a big difference in the sound of the room itself?

I was thinking change the material on my headliner to try to get the 630hz area to have a little bit different tonality, not really a reinforcement issue, just thinking changing the tone a tiny bit due to the environment 

Thanks


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## dgage

oabeieo said:


> I was thinking change the material on my headliner to try to get the 630hz area to have a little bit different tonality, not really a reinforcement issue, just thinking changing the tone a tiny bit due to the environment


Oabeieo, I don’t think there’s any material you could use and keep it low profile to get much absorption below 1,000 Hz. Here’s an absorption table of popular insulation used in home theater or studio absorption panels such as OC703 or Roxulboard 60. You’ll need inches and inches of insulation to absorb effectively below 1,000Hz. Now if you had a truck, then you might have enough headroom to effect it. 



https://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm


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## oabeieo

dgage said:


> Oabeieo, I don’t think there’s any material you could use and keep it low profile to get much absorption below 1,000 Hz. Here’s an absorption table of popular insulation used in home theater or studio absorption panels such as OC703 or Roxulboard 60. You’ll need inches and inches of insulation to absorb effectively below 1,000Hz. Now if you had a truck, then you might have enough headroom to effect it.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm


Yeah and I’m not sure it’s an absorption problem that I’m after I think I just want to change the sound of the car by Tiny bit

I install systems every day and every car I do is it little bit different sound and I know it’s because of the shape of the car , but I think the materials inside the car also play a small role and the civic generations that Erin has are very very similar in shape And the materials I don’t know how different they are that’s why I asked him if he noticed a huge difference in the way the car sounded  

His car is perfect to ask because the extents of what he’s done


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## dgage

oabeieo said:


> His car is perfect to ask because the extents of what he’s done


True that except he’s not comparing apples to apples since his old car was a lot more extreme. He already mentioned the old kicks had some dips since they were so far forward than the more traditional door mounting, which doesn’t have the same dips according to Erin. But I like where your thinking is going but I don’t think you’ll be able to affect much below 1,000 Hz, really 2 or even 3,000 Hz with material choices. Maybe in more expensive cars the materials might have more of an impact due to less plastic. Then again, not with a panoramic glass roof.


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## oabeieo

dgage said:


> True that except he’s not comparing apples to apples since his old car was a lot more extreme. He already mentioned the old kicks had some dips since they were so far forward than the more traditional door mounting, which doesn’t have the same dips according to Erin. But I like where your thinking is going but I don’t think you’ll be able to affect much below 1,000 Hz, really 2 or even 3,000 Hz with material choices. Maybe in more expensive cars the materials might have more of an impact due to less plastic. Then again, not with a panoramic glass roof.



Yeah, maybe I’m just board of my car and want a new Honda 
I need a good reason to go get that new 2.0T the 2020fit has .......


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## naiku

oabeieo said:


> Yeah, maybe I’m just board of my car and want a new Honda


Bored of mine as well, although I was not bored until someone asked if I would sell it. Now I am starting to pull the audio equipment out of it, replace it with cheap stuff and sell the car.


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## ErinH

Been a while since I've posted here. Nearly 7 months since I started the thread. Oh, that reminds me, I think a few people in this thread owe me some money for their wager that I would change things before 6 months. 

Anyway, I've been working on getting my testing going again and have started posting things on YouTube. My video today has some information about how I set up my sub/midbass crossover and thought some of you might be interested in seeing it. Here's a link to the thread I started:








Use your subwoofer to get better midbass


In this video I discuss why I recommend using your subwoofer to improve midbass response. Get your pitchforks ready!... I’m suggesting to run your sub higher than 30hz! :D This isn’t truly a shocking revelation. Plenty of people already do what I suggest. It just goes against intuition and...




www.diymobileaudio.com






And here's the post:

In this video I discuss why I recommend using your subwoofer to improve midbass response. Get your pitchforks ready!... I’m suggesting to run your sub higher than 30hz! 

This isn’t truly a shocking revelation. Plenty of people already do what I suggest. It just goes against intuition and against some beliefs in the car audio community that a subwoofer should not play too high in frequency because it can cause the bass to be localized behind you.

The reason why is due to one MAJOR issue in car audio: the “Nearside Null”. This is the large dip in response of the driver’s side midbass speaker that occurs typically in the 70-90hz region. This doesn't occur in every car; there are certainly exceptions to the more extreme car installs.


It is an acoustical null caused by the relationship of the listener’s location relative to the midbass location and generally caused by the width of the vehicle. If you play a track with bass guitar it’s very prevalent; you get a localization to the nearside midbass speaker when the midbass speaker is crossed lower than the frequency where the null occurs.

Generally speaking, the lower your crossover point between midbass and subwoofer, the more noticeable this occurrence is. Unfortunately, this isn’t something you can simply “EQ out”, either. Throwing +6dB at this null may only result in 1dB of actual gain; that means you’re wasting a LOT of power and risking damage to your speaker for no acoustical gain. Some of you may even think to yourselves “seems like you’re not getting much by crossing the midbass low. Maybe there’s not as much benefit as I thought in doing that”. That’s a logical assumption and a lot of times that’s actually true. Crossing the midbass too low can actually result in more “bass behind you”! And you can also take some of the strain off your midbass by crossing them at or above the null. Ironically, we in car audio tend to cross midbass low to get the “up front” bass we so much desire. BUT, IN FACT, the majority of the time you have bass that pulls to the rear is BECAUSE of the midbass nulls. I know that sounds counteractive. But it’s the truth. Standing waves are problematic and this is one symptom of them; whether in home or car audio.

Contrary to popular belief, raising the subwoofer crossover in to the region that this null occurs can actually HELP the sound to stay focused and achieve “up front” bass. If you can move your subwoofer to a location where it is null-free through a frequency above the Nearside Null then you can likely improve midbass without negatively impacting the “up front bass” effect that so many are after. And you can also take some of the strain off your midbass by crossing them at or above the null frequency. Not all have the luxury of space to move the subwoofer around much but experimentation is key here; you may be surprised at the difference subwoofer placement in the trunk can make.

And one important conclusion here is that placing the rear mounted subwoofer on the opposite side of the listening position often results in better response!


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## Niebur3

Cool video!!!!


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## Huckleberry Sound

Nice work!


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## Hanatsu

Really nice build. Pulling windshield and dash on a new car takes some dedication. End result is amazing though... makes me wanna finish up my project as well.


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## ErinH

Hanatsu said:


> Really nice build. Pulling windshield and dash on a new car takes some dedication. End result is amazing though... makes me wanna finish up my project as well.


Thank you, sir! I'm extremely happy with the install. And even 7 months later, more than glad I made the decision to take it to Steve and have him do it. If I hadn't, I probably would still be at it myself... I've just grown a bit 'tired' of installing. And no doubt it would not look nearly as good. I absolutely love jumping in the car and feeling unencumbered by large speakers like I did in my last car. (That's not a knock against my friends who have installs that are like that, though. It's just a personal preference after having lived the 'extreme' life for so long.) That said, I do have ideas of things I want to try to do at some point. Maybe in the fall or early next year. I don't see anything changing anytime in the next few months even if I had the means right now. But for now, I'm still completely happy with the choices I made with this system and car.


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## ErinH

I removed my passenger side GB60 midbass so I could test it on the Klippel this weekend and figured I'd share a better picture of the midbass mounting for no other reason than "because".

(the allen heads hold the midbass in place; I just screwed them back in to the ring so I wouldn't lose them )


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## ErinH

Oh, and I am approaching my one-year anniversary with this car. I haven't changed a single thing. Some of you guys owe me money.


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## AVIDEDTR

ErinH said:


> Oh, and I am approaching my one-year anniversary with this car. I haven't changed a single thing. Some of you guys owe me money.


Bhahahahahah

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


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## ErinH

Well, it's been a year and about 4 months or so and still no changes to my stereo. Couple of you turds owe me some money... PM me for my PayPal addy.  


Anyway, the reason for the update is I re-hosted Nick's video on my channel with his permission. In case you haven't seen it, here you go. If you've seen it, no need to watch it again.


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## oabeieo

Jezzus Erin .... 

I love the ride.....very nice it’s come a long way


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## quality_sound

@ErinH Is that 16ga in your door? I tried zooming in but couldn't really tell. Thanks!


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## quality_sound

ErinH said:


> I _believe_ it’s from parts express.
> Home


Were you able to get confirmation? I don't think it's from PE since theirs has a white liner and an air gap and yours look like they're sealed if that makes sense.


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## ErinH

quality_sound said:


> @ErinH Is that 16ga in your door? I tried zooming in but couldn't really tell. Thanks!


I'm not sure. Sorry... not much help, I know.


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## THX0849

Looking at the picture it says "stinger" on the heat shrink/boot. On a hunch I check on the website and yes it looks like it's stinger 16ga wire sku SPW516RB









Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## THX0849

ErinH said:


> I removed my passenger side GB60 midbass so I could test it on the Klippel this weekend and figured I'd share a better picture of the midbass mounting for no other reason than "because".
> 
> (the allen heads hold the midbass in place; I just screwed them back in to the ring so I wouldn't lose them )
> 
> View attachment 275656


I've got a question about your mounts. I opened a thread with this question but none has chimed in on it. Is there an actual benefit to making an adapter vs using an off the shelf,although correct, mount? In other words is there an audible improvement using it?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## oabeieo

ErinH said:


> Oh, and I am approaching my one-year anniversary with this car. I haven't changed a single thing. Some of you guys owe me money.


pm me your PayPal .... I’m good for it lol

But now that that’s settled , I’ve got to ask , are you planning a new setup ? Lol


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## ErinH

oabeieo said:


> pm me your PayPal .... I’m good for it lol
> 
> But now that that’s settled , I’ve got to ask , are you planning a new setup ? Lol


haha. Nah, I'm just kidding. But I just wanted to make some of you guys bleed. 

No plans for any changes. I've had ideas cross my mind but there's numerous reasons why I don't.


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## ErinH

THX0849 said:


> I've got a question about your mounts. I opened a thread with this question but none has chimed in on it. Is there an actual benefit to making an adapter vs using an off the shelf,although correct, mount? In other words is there an audible improvement using it?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Assuming the off the shelf one isn't a crappy, cheaply made plastic adapter you're fine.


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## THX0849

ErinH said:


> Assuming the off the shelf one isn't a crappy, cheaply made plastic adapter you're fine.


CAR-AV plastic unit angled for my vehicle to match up to the door panel. I'm guessing by your response that in this case I'm better off making an MDF or blown PVC ring and use speaker ring to seal up against the door?









Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## vactor

Hey Erin. just read this build log as i just got a similar civic hatch and need install ideas. i know Skizer sent me some too (since i have been discussing things a bit with him ... not forgetting you pal!!). thanks for the great discussion and pictures of a fantastic install. mulling things over. i don't want to wait too long to figure out something for my build, as the sooner it is in, the longer i will be able to enjoy it. thanks again for this thread and your considered thoughts and explanations. currently i am leaning to an A-pillar build with mids an tweets there and door mid bass and something to replace the OEM enclosure in the hatch.


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