# Diyma exploded wtff????



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

I bought 2 subs from ebay user NPDang one is still in box the other 1 i just used for 1 day and i hear a clank in my trunk the sub didnt get more then 150rms i open the trunk it poped like a flower like everyone elses wtf is this?? i dont understand you buy a sub and it breaks easier then a freaking cheap ass unknown brand sub people run pyle all day long nd etc and nothing this is supposed to be a good sub what am i supposed to do noww?


----------



## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

weird...can you post a picture of your setup? Details?


----------



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

stock headunit infinity amp giving my sub 111 rms this is crazy 

almost every diyma that was sold is blown im scared to take out my other one


----------



## Mless5 (Aug 21, 2006)

should've used subsonic filter.


----------



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

it was on


----------



## Suneet (Jun 19, 2007)

I just bought a DIYMA.. Hopefully I don't kill it!


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

you were using the stock infinity amp or stock heaunit to an aftermarket infinity amp?

Ported box? Sealed box? Airspace?

If the amp was clipping and supplying too much power, then you probably caused the sub to exceed it's mechanical limits. It has been discussed a few time regarding duty cycle of clipped vs unclipped signal.

150W is not alot of power for any sub especially in a sealed box. If you were trying to get too much output out of it by compensating with gain, then it would make perfect sense to me.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

durwood said:


> you were using the stock infinity amp or stock heaunit to an aftermarket infinity amp?
> 
> Ported box? Sealed box? Airspace?
> 
> ...



Normally in the duty cycle case you see the thermal limits exceeded, not the mechanical limits.


----------



## chadillac3 (Feb 3, 2006)

This seems more than a bit fishy...pics of setup would be a nice start.


----------



## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

lexizpimpin said:


> stock headunit infinity amp giving my sub 111 rms this is crazy
> 
> almost every diyma that was sold is blown im scared to take out my other one


Not true. I have (3) of them, all currently is use for well over 3 months. One is being powered by a Massive Audio P3000.1 at just under 2kw rms @ 4ohms. They guy using it listens to rap and pushes it very hard sometimes. Gets plenty loud, too. Not problems whatsoever with any of them BUT all are being used with some sort of subsonic filtering.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

chad said:


> Normally in the duty cycle case you see the thermal limits exceeded, not the mechanical limits.


Dah yes. I was thinking and typing at the same time. The problem I think people found with DIYMA is that it's mechanics can cause the sub to destry itself. Someone mentioned that during heavy excursion, the duall spiders could hit each other. Maybe what I was thinking was that if the duty cycle was high enough to supply enough power to cause the spiders to hit each other, but then he wouldn't be exceeding the thermal power handling. Am I making any sense?


----------



## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

By the way, 150 wrms is too little to get a pretty inefficient woofer moving enough for most users.


----------



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

it split on the top lioke everyone elses i can show you 10 pictures of them blown exactly same way the amp is 111x4 i used one chanel to power it because i was testing it i gave it 111 rms the gain wasnt set high at alll

also the box is 1cf sealed after displacement


----------



## maestro (Jul 7, 2007)

lexizpimpin said:


> almost every diyma that was sold is blown im scared to take out my other one


thats a pretty irrational and unfair statement. i know people who have used theirs for a very long time with much more power going to them who have had no problems. 

why dont you provide more information in a more coherent manner and let's all logically come to a conclusion after the facts are presented.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

Hell I don't know, it's Friday 

I would suspect not. X amount of volts makes the driver move X far regardless of time base is what I was thinking. so , say 25V makes the driver move 10MM (just throwing numbers) it's going to move 10MM if the 25V is applied for 100 MS or 10S sans overshoot which I bet this driver controls well.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Visual inspection might reveal something!


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

maestro said:


> thats a pretty irrational and unfair statement. i know people who have used theirs for a very long time with much more power going to them who have had no problems.
> 
> why dont you provide more information in a more coherent manner and let's all logically come to a conclusion after the facts are presented.


Heh, if you think of it that way....

Every driver ever sold (or a majority) eventually fails, not many throw away perfectly good drivers


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Sorry to hear that your new sub let go like that. But I would almost be willing to put money on it that your amp clipped and that's what did the sub in. Didn't several people report that the DIYMA 12's are pretty sensitive to clipped signals?


----------



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

im saying i know not all of them fail but theres alot of them that fail


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

chad said:


> Hell I don't know, it's Friday
> 
> I would suspect not. X amount of volts makes the driver move X far regardless of time base is what I was thinking. so , say 25V makes the driver move 10MM (just throwing numbers) it's going to move 10MM if the 25V is applied for 100 MS or 10S sans overshoot which I bet this driver controls well.


True true. So what DC voltage would cause a DIYMA to exceed it one-way linear xmax-or the point at which the spiders touch? Then compare that against the rail voltage of the amp. Would that be a quick check? Not suggesting anyone try this-I don't want to be the blamed if you blow it up.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

It's your fault. That's what I was told by most here when it happened to me. You will hear the same too I'm sure. 

These subs appear to have serious problems. I compare to a car that works fine if you take off normally from a stop light and drive it normally, but if you floor it the axles snap. Then the people that always take always off slow say, "It's your fault, because my axles never snapped". Maybe not, but if you ever floor the car, which you should be able to do without it breaking, they snap. I would consider that car to have a serious defect.


----------



## seagrasser (Feb 6, 2007)

Lets see the pic's.


----------



## BlackLac (Aug 8, 2005)

i think we need a sticky about the DIYMA on here. how to properly take care of it, who should and shouldn't use one...


so to safely run the DIYMA, through my reading on here, you should use a SSF, CLEAN power, and i think i read that the suggested .5 cube box for .707 may make the DIYMA more sensitive. (my words, may have understood that one wrong)


----------



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

so basicly i cant get it replaced i gotta buy a new one


----------



## BlackLac (Aug 8, 2005)

89grand said:


> It's your fault. That's what I was told by most here when it happened to me. You will hear the same too I'm sure.
> 
> These subs appear to have serious problems. I compare to a car that works fine if you take off normally from a stop light and drive it normally, but if you floor it the axles snap. Then the people that always take always off slow say, "It's your fault, because my axles never snapped". Maybe not, but if you ever floor the car, which you should be able to do without it breaking, they snap. I would consider that car to have a serious defect.


i don't know about everyone else who owns a DIYMA but i figured out pretty quick just reading through posts, this is a sub no to be beat on, and is not for everybody. Not even your casual street beater. This sub is for those who want a sub that can be extremely accurate, use a very small box, blend in with the rest of the system (not stand out)... seems like alot of blown DIYMA's are cause people want too much from them, or are using them incorrectly.


That said, i can't wait to use mine!


----------



## solacedagony (May 18, 2006)

chad said:


> Hell I don't know, it's Friday
> 
> I would suspect not. X amount of volts makes the driver move X far regardless of time base is what I was thinking. so , say 25V makes the driver move 10MM (just throwing numbers) it's going to move 10MM if the 25V is applied for 100 MS or 10S sans overshoot which I bet this driver controls well.


Doesn't box size/tuning also affect excursion?


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Boostedrex said:


> Sorry to hear that your new sub let go like that. But I would almost be willing to put money on it that your amp clipped and that's what did the sub in. Didn't several people report that the DIYMA 12's are pretty sensitive to clipped signals?


I know this keeps getting repeated as an excuse for the Diyma failures, but a clipped signal does not tear cones, it burns voice coils.

If clipped signals did it, how come it doesn't happen to any other sub with this kind of regularity or any other speaker for that matter?


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Small sealed seems to be the only way to do it (less than 1 cuft). However, they do seem delicate in the cone area.

Id love for npdang to revise the diyma with a more appropriate cone because the motor and magnet is fantastic.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Seems to me like just enough power (clean or clipped) in just a big enough box to push it past its mechanical limits and causing the surround to deform enough in a way that it warped the cone slightly and it lost its structural rigidity and failed after from the air pressure.


----------



## BlackLac (Aug 8, 2005)

89grand said:


> I know this keeps getting repeated as an excuse for the Diyma failures, but a clipped signal does not tear cones, it burns voice coils.
> 
> If clipped signals did it, how come it doesn't happen to any other sub with this kind of regularity or any other speaker for that matter?



first off, let me say i know nothing about a subs mechanic.

if the thermal limits were way higher than the mechanical limits couldn't that tear the cone before there was any problems with the VC?


----------



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

it seems that the top cone part is weak i seen 10 of them crack same exact way same exact place


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

tyroneshoes said:


> Small sealed seems to be the only way to do it (less than 1 cuft). However, they do seem delicate in the cone area.
> *
> Id love for npdang to revise the diyma with a more appropriate cone because the motor and magnet is fantastic.*


I think its fine like that, he designed it with his listening habits in mind and his outlook on what SQ is to him. Its not about making it better its about making it the way you want it to sound.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

From the last thread about the DIYMA some memorable posts:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=144898&postcount=96



> They're saying it's more than enough for SQ use. And I'd have to say I agree.
> 
> I think CBRworm hit the nail on the head. If you're pushing it hard enough to hit the spider spacer ring and buckle the cone, chances are it's not being used for SQ purposes.


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=144846&postcount=82

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=144875&postcount=88


----------



## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

I have 2 and if npdang came out with another version I would buy it too.


----------



## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

lexizpimpin said:


> it seems that the top cone part is weak i seen 10 of them crack same exact way same exact place


Did you use a subsonic filter? The problem seems to be mechanical and not thermal.

The DIYMA 12 functions just as designed IMHO. It is NOT a sub for all, as has been shown by the failures. The DIYMA 12 seems to be susceptible to subsonic excursions that cause the cone to buckle and fail. EVERY failure has one thing in common - no subsonic filtering, which usually isn't required for sealed applications but this driver may be different.

I still say it is one of the best SQ subwoofers out there, bar none.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

t3sn4f2 said:


> I think its fine like that, he designed it with his listening habits in mind and his outlook on what SQ is to him. Its not about making it better its about making it the way you want it to sound.


True but it seems that he could still obtain the same sound if he changed the cone to avoid a lot of these problems with the cone. I had one and it sounded great but the cone flexing and noise was an issue. However mine was in 1.4 ported so I am just talking from my own experience.

Im pretty sure even Npdang stated the cone was thinner than he'd hope. Which is why he selling them at a price that is incongruent with the overall design of the sub. I think if the cone issues were addressed Npdang could have a sub that would destroy all in its price range. Its the only thing that stops me from rebuying one and doing an inverted mount HT sub.


----------



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

noone is saying how it sounds it sounds amazing your right but it breaks


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

tyroneshoes said:


> True but it seems that he could still obtain the same sound if he changed the cone to avoid a lot of these problems with the cone. I had one and it sounded great but the cone flexing and noise was an issue. However mine was in 1.4 ported so I am just talking from my own experience.
> 
> Im pretty sure even Npdang stated the cone was thinner than he'd hope. Which is why he selling them at a price that is incongruent with the overall design of the sub. I think if the cone issues were addressed Npdang could have a sub that would destroy all in its price range. Its the only thing that stops me from rebuying one and doing an inverted mount HT sub.


I see. He should also lower the ratings for box and power handling too then. To a very concervative rating just to be on the safe side.


----------



## Nathan P (Jun 9, 2007)

I think this may be a case of a monster of a motor assembly mounted to a light cone. great for accuracy and SQ, but not so great for throwing large hits with lots of power at it.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Nathan P said:


> I think this may be a case of a monster of a motor assembly mounted to a light cone. great for accuracy and SQ, but not so great for throwing large hits with lots of power at it.


Thats basically my assumption of the issue as well. Even with a subsonic, all tracks are not mastered at the same level making over excursion pretty hard to avoid. Especially on bass heavy tracks like hiphop and electronic music, even the SQ people who use it a "sub bass fill" will over exert it. Unless if is used in a very, very small box with a subsonic. But people who buy it off ebay, they dont usually read this forum and see a monster sub and think, "holy crap this thing is a monster, looks loud and can take 1000 watts" thats where issues pop up.


----------



## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

lexizpimpin said:


> noone is saying how it sounds it sounds amazing your right but it breaks


The DIYMA 12 doesn't fail if you understand the driver limitations and design your system accordingly.

As NPDang has stated many times before, this is strictly an SQ driver and not intended to win SPL comps.

Any driver can be misused to failure. The DIYMA 12 is just less forgiving with the subsonic freqs.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

CBRworm's experimenation:




> What I realized is that it looks like the motor has the power to pull the cone into the frame. First it hits the backside of the terminals - buckling it at 2 points, if driven harder it will hit the spider support all the way around the cone, buckling it around the whole circumference and possibly ripping it.
> 
> I did a lot of experimenting with my damaged speaker and could drive it with low frequency sinewaves into its own frame in a 1 cf sealed box using fairly low power from a high power amp. When I put it into a smaller sealed box it was harder to drive it to lightly touch the terminals, but when I ran some higher frequencies through it the cone ripped and blew outward. I suspect that the cone was weakened first, then ripped later.



indicates a subsonic filter SHOULD be used if you want to protect the speaker-even at LOW POWER levels


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

SteveLPfreak said:


> The DIYMA 12 doesn't fail if you understand the driver limitations and design your system accordingly.
> 
> As NPDang has stated many times before, this is strictly an SQ driver and not intended to win SPL comps.
> 
> Any driver can be misused to failure. The DIYMA 12 is just less forgiving with the subsonic freqs.


Well if that's the case. Just exactly how many of the purchasers would know exctly how to use it, since it's obviously has to be used so much differently from any other sub?

I bought it knowing it was an "sq" sub, but that didn't translate to "don't turn it up very loud or you'll ruin it". I doubt it does to most other people either.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

durwood said:


> CBRworm's experimenation:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or better yet, use something you don't have to worry about self destructing.


----------



## BlackLac (Aug 8, 2005)

what would be a good freq. to start filtering?

for those without a SSF, would highpassing with as steep as slope at possible work also? Say a HP @ 20hz 18/24db slope. Would that do anything?


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

BlackLac said:


> what would be a good freq. to start filtering?
> 
> for those without a SSF, would highpassing with as steep as slope at possible work also? Say a HP @ 20hz 18/24db slope. Would that do anything?


Yes, that would do the same thing.


----------



## khail19 (Oct 27, 2006)

BlackLac said:


> for those without a SSF, would highpassing with as steep as slope at possible work also? Say a HP @ 20hz 18/24db slope. Would that do anything?


That's basically what a subsonic filter does. Most that I've seen are set between 15-30hz.


----------



## BlackLac (Aug 8, 2005)

khail19 said:


> That's basically what a subsonic filter does. Most that I've seen are set between 15-30hz.


yeah, but doesn't a SSF has a MUCH steeper slope?


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

durwood said:


> True true. So what DC voltage would cause a DIYMA to exceed it one-way linear xmax-or the point at which the spiders touch? Then compare that against the rail voltage of the amp. Would that be a quick check? Not suggesting anyone try this-I don't want to be the blamed if you blow it up.


If the driver is made correctly then the spiders are farther apart than the one way excursion, in theory if this is the case, then they should never touch  



solacedagony said:


> Doesn't box size/tuning also affect excursion?


Very much so while playing, but regardless, the driver should make max excursion electrically. If in too large of or a vented box played much lower then the tuning freq then you could exceed max excursion mechanically if the motor is not up to the taks of slowing it down. I suspect, by looking at this driver that the motor looks more than capable of controlling the cone.



lexizpimpin said:


> it seems that the top cone part is weak i seen 10 of them crack same exact way same exact place


But you bought two anyway? Is this pre-purchase research or WTF happened research?

Chad


----------



## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

89grand said:


> Or better yet, use something you don't have to worry about self destructing.


Exactly. You want something you can drop in your boot and crank. The DIYMA 12 (and the user) are much better served by taking the time to setup the driver correctly and apply the proper tuning.


----------



## Nathan P (Jun 9, 2007)

What I love about my Dayton 12 HO is that I can crank it for my rap loving buddies and impress them with my bass, and then turn it back down when I'm listening to it. My bass boost knob is set to zero or less than half 90% of the time. I think what Chad and Grand are getting at is that the cone should match what the motor can do.


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Well, I'll say it again for the record even though quite a few people have already touched on it. It's a very strong, overbuilt linear motor with a light cone. It's made to sound as clean and accurate as possible at a certain output level.... not to get beat on or used "anyway you please", and perhaps needs a bit more care and knowledge in setup. Unfortunately, part of what makes it sound so good also contributes to making it easier to wreck if you don't pay attention to how you set it up and use it. 

Now I can also easily design a cheapo sub that can get beat on and keep on ticking... but that doesn't make a good driver. Look at Accuton or Jordan, their cones are extremely brittle and thin. Definitely not something you want to even touch! Does that mean because your Pioneer co-ax at 1/10th the cost can take more of a beating it's a "better" driver?

@89grand, I don't think anyone is blaming you but I think people are saying you should accept some responsibility. You paid relatively little for the driver on ebay, bought it knowingly without any warranty, and I replaced it for you promptly and free of charge. It was a bit of a shock to all of us that you would just heedlessly repeat the exact same behaviour that you knew destroyed your first sub!

That you would continue to contribute to the mis-information that this driver is "seriously flawed" or that "most of these subs have failed" across this forum and others is a bit dissapointing to me. As I have stated before the number of users having issues with this sub is a very small minority compared to the overall number sold, unfortunately they just happen to be the most vocal. Also, how can you say the sub is flawed when the design goal has obviously been met? I believe you have acknowledged it as well... that the sub does sound great, it's tight, quick, works in a small box, and blends in seamlessly? Now if I were to build an idiot proof beater sub for SPL or SQL use... different story.

If it were me, at the price you paid and service you received, I'd just say no big deal and leave it at that rather than continue to spread mis-information and disdain on every thread like this.


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

chad said:


> If the driver is made correctly then the spiders are farther apart than the one way excursion, in theory if this is the case, then they should never touch
> Chad


I don't think that's always fair to say. My goal was to maximize bl linearity, and well... a side effect of that is you may exceed your mechanical clearances especially if mounting depth is a concern.


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

npdang said:


> I don't think that's always fair to say. My goal was to maximize bl linearity, and well... a side effect of that is you may exceed your mechanical clearances especially if mounting depth is a concern.


why must there always be compromise


----------



## SOHCKing03 (Nov 21, 2006)

Sooo...

is a new cone gonna be available for those who would like it?

I will go take measurements of the cone right now, unless you already have some Nguyen.

-Brad


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

SOHCKing03 said:


> Sooo...
> 
> is a new cone gonna be available for those who would like it?
> 
> ...


Dammit! Did you jack yours up too?


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

I'll post some videos later this week so maybe people can see how much this thing can take.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

npdang said:


> @89grand, I don't think anyone is blaming you but I think people are saying you should accept some responsibility. You paid relatively little for the driver on ebay, bought it knowingly without any warranty, and I replaced it for you promptly and free of charge. It was a bit of a shock to all of us that you would just heedlessly repeat the exact same behaviour that you knew destroyed your first sub!


I figured the first failure was a fluke since I wasn't driving it to any extremes, at least I don't think so. The first sub failed for use that I didn't think should have killed a sub, and has never killed any other sub I've ever had or curently have. I learned that it was not a fluke only when the second went took a **** too. 



npdang said:


> That you would continue to contribute to the mis-information that this driver is "seriously flawed" or that "most of these subs have failed" across this forum and others is a bit dissapointing to me. As I have stated before the number of users having issues with this sub is a very small minority compared to the overall number sold, unfortunately they just happen to be the most vocal. Also, how can you say the sub is flawed when the design goal has obviously been met? I believe you have acknowledged it as well... that the sub does sound great, it's tight, quick, works in a small box, and blends in seamlessly? Now if I were to build an idiot proof beater sub for SPL or SQL use... different story.


I don't see the misinformation I'm spreading. The sub does sound great, but does not hold up under what I consider to be normal use. I'm not a bass head, I don't run a **** load of power, I don't listen to really bass heavy music. I see absolutey no excuse in a sub (or 2) falling apart with how I used them. To me, the driver has design problems with the cone. If not, they wouldn't warp and tear for any other reason I can see. Apparently, this is a highy specialized subwoofer, therefore maybe it shouldn't be sold to the general public without comprehensive instructions on exctly what it's designed for and precisely how to use it. Just a thought that might help eliminate the issues a number of users have had with them.



npdang said:


> If it were me, at the price you paid and service you received, I'd just say no big deal and leave it at that rather than continue to spread mis-information and disdain on every thread like this.


I appreciated you sending me another one. I never claimed I didn't, I told you in the first PM I knew it wasn't under warranty and didn't expect you to do anything about it. But...I'm not exactly thankful that I blew about $125 or so on a sub that was worthless to me. What good does it do to get something "cheap" if you can't use it? To me, it was expensive, because I couldn't use it, it was $125 right down the drain.

I think it's odd though, no matter how many times this happens, it's still considered to be just a few people. It's more than just a few. If the idea is to keep it a secret that this sub has no business in the hands of the average user, well then I'll do my best to help with that in the future.


----------



## SOHCKing03 (Nov 21, 2006)

chad said:


> Dammit! Did you jack yours up too?


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17408

I have been working on creating a new cone for it (with a little help from npdang) and hopefully I can come up with a stronger one.

Obviously, the specs will be different but it will still be similar to the DIYMA just with a big stronger cone.

From now on though, all DIYMA owners take this warning... use subsonic filter, or risk cone damage!

-Brad

p.s. Chad, the more and more you show concern for me the more and more I consider you my online dad. So from now on, you'll be my "DIYMA pops" lol


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Fiberglass, nomex, kevlar, etc.., for the cone material, a little more expensive but weight might be similar


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

They need a subsonic filter with a sealed box.


----------



## SOHCKing03 (Nov 21, 2006)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188313&postcount=10

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188356&postcount=35

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188388&postcount=42

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183981&postcount=12

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=184061&postcount=14

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=184071&postcount=16

All those posts bring up two potential reasons for the "DIYMA Downfalls"... subsonic filtering and small box size.

So although .5cF gives us a .707 QTC, the extreme backpressure from such a small box overpowers the strength of the cone. So really, at .5cF the QTC is perfect but the cone cannot handle it.

As far as subsonic filtering, possibly bandpassing the sub from 25-90hz would solve the problem. Although subsonic filtering in a sealed box may be rare, it could be the solution to this problem.

The DIYMA is a rare sub and one of a kind. It deserves special care, even if that means using unconventional or unusual methods.

-Brad


----------



## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

I can't believe there is still this much ******** to be talked about this sub.


----------



## SOHCKing03 (Nov 21, 2006)

You would think people would research before they make MORE threads about it. As far as I know though, only two threads actually included pictures (mine included).

-Brad


----------



## Vestax (Aug 16, 2005)

skylar112 said:


> I can't believe there is still this much ******** to be talked about this sub.


Stubbornness and ignorance is a pretty deadly combination. Even when 50 people had already said it, they just don't STFU.


----------



## SOHCKing03 (Nov 21, 2006)

^^^
HAHAHA


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

skylar112 said:


> I can't believe there is still this much ******** to be talked about this sub.


Well, I'd hate to see this place turn into ICIX where you either love and praise the thing or shut up. If people have failures, I see no reason to keep quiet about it. Maybe these failures will lead to a updated and stronger Diyma.


----------



## SOHCKing03 (Nov 21, 2006)

89grand said:


> Maybe these failures will lead to a updated and stronger Diyma.


Well I'm looking into the new cone, so does anyone here have any suggestions for how the cone should be?

I am probably going to attempt a fiberglass one then a strong paper cone.

Anyone know how to make one? I'm still learning.

-Brad


----------



## 3.5max6spd (Jun 29, 2005)

I've been testing one in a 1.0cu/ft box for the last two months with first 300rms and now 600rms ...with a low pass filter . Mechanically is has not complained to me once, as hard as its been driven.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

3.5max6spd said:


> I've been testing one in a 1.0cu/ft box for the last two months with first 300rms and now 600rms ...with a low pass filter . Mechanically is has not complained to me once, as hard as its been driven.


Yeah, it doesn't make sense. I hear that quite a bit and believe it, I just wish I had the same luck with it.


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

SOHCKing03 said:


> Well I'm looking into the new cone, so does anyone here have any suggestions for how the cone should be?
> 
> I am probably going to attempt a fiberglass one then a strong paper cone.
> 
> ...


Are you doing just a cone or a voice coil as well? Would it be possible to make a shallower cone that won't hit the basket under high excrsion?


----------



## SteveLPfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

89grand said:


> Yeah, it doesn't make sense. I hear that quite a bit and believe it, I just wish I had the same luck with it.


It's not luck. And I don't understand why you keep posting in this, or any other DIYMA12 thread unless you have something helpful to add. EVERYONE knows by now you blew (2) DIYMA12's and refuse to accept any blame. Continuing to trash the product does nothing for anyone.


----------



## xencloud (Aug 26, 2005)

I recently bought two and can't wait to hear them. I think my H/U can high pass these at 20hz, but just in case, I might buy a couple of these, they can stack too for higher slopes....


----------



## eqrenthorn (Apr 18, 2007)

Agreed. 1000 watts in a .9 cu ft enclosure for ~3 months and not even a hint of a problem. Gains are set halfway on the amp, and volume is controlled per song with a sub remote. Most of my listening is not insanely loud, but I do let it RIP once every few songs or so, perhaps to the detriment of my hearing. 

Oh, and definitely a subsonic filter at all times.

The only modification this sub needs is a paper with big bold text in the box stating that it requires a subsonic filter for heavier use.


----------



## SOHCKing03 (Nov 21, 2006)

ca90ss said:


> Are you doing just a cone or a voice coil as well? Would it be possible to make a shallower cone that won't hit the basket under high excrsion?


I can try many variations. I am just making a new cone as a recone could be quite costly. The top of the cone's diameter must be about 8.625" and the bottom diamter is approximately 3" leading to a 2.890" voice coil (IIRC).

I can try several different types of materials and shapes of the cone. Let me know any other suggestions for materials or shapes.

-Brad


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

SteveLPfreak said:


> It's not luck. And I don't understand why you keep posting in this, or any other DIYMA12 thread unless you have something helpful to add. EVERYONE knows by now you blew (2) DIYMA12's and refuse to accept any blame. Continuing to trash the product does nothing for anyone.


+1!! It's the same post getting repeated every few lines. "Well, I blew 2 of them so the sub must be defective."


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

89grand said:


> I figured the first failure was a fluke since I wasn't driving it to any extremes, at least *I don't think* so. The first sub failed for use that *I didn't think* should have killed a sub,


There's your problem, you're NOT thinking. You are simply NOT an SQ sub person. If you don't think how you used it should have killed it tell us what you think SHOULD have? What's a reasonable amount of abuse, in your eyes, for a sub to destroy itself at? And no, saying "Not as little as I gave it" won't do it. I want it quantified in HARD NUMBERS so we can show you how absurd your argument really is or point out that your expectations are a LOT higher than you think and that this was not a good sub for you, no matter what you may think.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Boostedrex said:


> +1!! It's the same post getting repeated every few lines. "Well, I blew 2 of them so the sub must be defective."


Yeah, most people come to conclusions like that. 

If I bought a clock radio and it quit working a few days later, then I got another one just like it, and it quit too...yeah, I'd blame the clock radio. I guess you would blame yourself.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> 89grand said:
> 
> 
> > I figured the first failure was a fluke since I wasn't driving it to any extremes, at least *I don't think* so. The first sub failed for use that *I didn't think* should have killed a sub,
> ...


----------



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

you people are ignorant i never said the sub was bad i just want to find out what to do with it

the sub sounded great!!!!!! i want another one but i want to find out what to do with this one


----------



## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

You cant do anything with it besides getting a new cone (in the works) or trying to patch up the tear....there is a disclaimer on the ebay auctions about "no implied warranty" due to situations like this were usually user error is the cause. It sucks but just be careful with the other one and take the recommendations about the subsonic filter and enclosure size seriously. Good luck 

FWIW I plan on using mine in a sealed .70 cu ft net enclosure with ~500W RMS bandpassed between 60hz and 20hz (subsonic filter)


----------



## durwood (Mar 7, 2007)

use a subsonic filter or find different subs. I don't think you have enough power for the output you are looking for. Just a speculation or hunch.

Either way, I don't think npdang can help you out becuase he has no more from what IIRC. So if you want two, shop the forsale section.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

89grand said:


> I figured the first failure was a fluke since I wasn't driving it to any extremes, at least *I don't think* so. The first sub failed for use that *I didn't think* should have killed a sub,
> 
> You want to know what I think should do to a sub what I did to this...are you sure, or just waiting for another response so you can speculate what I did, without having the slightest idea how I used it?


No, I REALLY want to know. I truly believe that you abused the sub more than you think. 



> Well, I'm sure there will be more speculation since this thread is full of it, but anyway I would have expected to see (appearance wise) what happened to my sub if I was using a 2000 watt amp, blasting low frequency test tones in a ported enclosure. That's what it looked like I did. What I actually did, was use a 425 watt amp in a small .7 ft3 sealed enclosure and was listening, not to test tones, but Godsmack MP3, not exactly a super low bass recording.


Have you ever seen the freq. response of Godsmack? It has more low freq. info that you realize. What amp were you using? Gain setting? How was the sub tuned i.e. loudness, bass control, bass eq, etc. 



> Now, I run a different sub, in the same enclosure, with the same amp (except with a little more power because it's a D4 sub) and it has held together just fine.
> 
> So what do you make of that?


What sub are you using now? What I make of itis that your new sub is more in line with your needs, and that listening to Godsmack on mp3 means you should NOT be SQ sub buyer. 



> It doesn't really matter, one, because I run a different sub now anyway, and two, because there are two clear camps here, those that think the sub is great and does exactly what they want and those that don't.


No, the two camps are:
1) those that think the sub is great and use it within it's limits. not what they *want* it do, but what it's *designed* to do.
2) those that don't, break it and say it's the sub's fault.



> The people that have blown subs are speculating as to why they did,


It sounds to me like those that have broken them are looking at blaming every one and every thing *but* themselves.



> those that haven't are speculating that it was user error. I don't think either camp knows for sure, but I feel I'm better qualified to describe how I was using my own subs, then the speculators are.


I agree you probably know how you were using it, but I also think you're either not being honest with the people here or that you don't realize how abusive you really are on your gear.


----------



## dodgerblue (Jul 14, 2005)

lexizpimpin said:


> you people are ignorant i never said the sub was bad i just want to find out what to do with it
> 
> the sub sounded great!!!!!! i want another one but i want to find out what to do with this one


lex ,i understand the situation is a frustrating one ,but i dont see how you can roll out with the quote you poeple are ignorant when i see another 8 pages of posts from members giving experiences and reccomendations to help you - the same info from the same members -reviews- in the search engine from months ago .


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

If I thought for a minute that I abused the sub, I would have quietly taken the new one that npdang was nice enough to give me, and I would have never mentioned it again. 

The only reason I continue to talk about this whenever another blown Diyma thread pops up is because I feel strongly that I did not abuse the sub, and because of that, I feel it's possible that the poster didn't either, but I know they will get gang banged by speculations of user error.

But anyway, they aren't my problem anymore. I use a different sub.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

AAAHHHGGGRRRHHHHH, WTF does gain setting have to do with ANYTHING!!!!!??????

You can turn the amp all the way down and I can still drive it into clipping!!!!! It's NOT a limiter it just sets up the sensitivity. Asking what the gain setting is in the arbitrary way car amps label them is like asking him when he ****s during the day.

"I blew something up and my gain was barely up" is the most common thing we hear, the amp WILL STILL CLIP!!!!!!!


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> What sub are you using now? What I make of itis that your new sub is more in line with your needs, and that listening to Godsmack on mp3 means you should NOT be SQ sub buyer.


Are you suggesting that a "SQ sub" should not be used to reproduce certain types of music?


----------



## dodgerblue (Jul 14, 2005)

CMR22 said:


> Are you suggesting that a "SQ sub" should not be used to reproduce certain types of music?


uh-oh


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

chad said:


> AAAHHHGGGRRRHHHHH, WTF does gain setting have to do with ANYTHING!!!!!??????
> 
> You can turn the amp all the way down and I can still drive it into clipping!!!!! It's NOT a limiter it just sets up the sensitivity. Asking what the gain setting is in the arbitrary way car amps label them is like asking him when he ****s during the day.
> 
> "I blew something up and my gain was barely up" is the most common thing we hear, the amp WILL STILL CLIP!!!!!!!


I understand that. But would you agree that someone that pegs their gains is more likely to damage their gear and not be a good candidate for a SQ type sub? THAT'S what I was looking for an answer to. 

And since when is clipping bad? Clipping in and of itself is harmless.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

89grand said:


> If I thought for a minute that I abused the sub, I would have quietly taken the new one that npdang was nice enough to give me, and I would have never mentioned it again.
> 
> The only reason I continue to talk about this whenever another blown Diyma thread pops up is because I feel strongly that I did not abuse the sub, and because of that, I feel it's possible that the poster didn't either, but I know they will get gang banged by speculations of user error.
> 
> But anyway, they aren't my problem anymore. I use a different sub.


And that's what I'm getting at. Just because you don't thnk you were abusing it, doesn't mean you weren't.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

CMR22 said:


> Are you suggesting that a "SQ sub" should not be used to reproduce certain types of music?


No, I'm suggesting that people listening to overprocessed, compressed music shouldn't be buying "SQ" subs, especially at the levels that the general listeners of that type of music listen to it at. Most, not all, Godsmack fans aren't listening at 90dB or lower.


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

89grand said:


> I figured the first failure was a fluke since I wasn't driving it to any extremes, at least I don't think so. The first sub failed for use that I didn't think should have killed a sub, and has never killed any other sub I've ever had or curently have. I learned that it was not a fluke only when the second went took a **** too.


I believe a few people including myself told you quite specifically that you were overdriving it and to go easy. You yourself admitted the sub performed flawlessly until you "cranked" it in the carwash.



89grand said:


> I don't see the misinformation I'm spreading. The sub does sound great, but does not hold up under what I consider to be normal use. I'm not a bass head, I don't run a **** load of power, I don't listen to really bass heavy music. I see absolutey no excuse in a sub (or 2) falling apart with how I used them. To me, the driver has design problems with the cone. If not, they wouldn't warp and tear for any other reason I can see. Apparently, this is a highy specialized subwoofer, therefore maybe it shouldn't be sold to the general public without comprehensive instructions on exctly what it's designed for and precisely how to use it. Just a thought that might help eliminate the issues a number of users have had with them.


For one, there's several quotes of you saying it "self exploded", or it's inherently flawed, or that it's a poor design, etc. etc. and generally misleading people into thinking the second you hook it up it's going to blow, or that it can't handle more than 100watts. I guess it's the exaggeration that bothers me, when as you can see there are many, many people who consider that they are driving it to reasonably dynamic levels and not having any issues. It's fine if you don't like it, or feel it's fragile, etc. but I would be grateful if you mention the above as well in your comments.



89grand said:


> I appreciated you sending me another one. I never claimed I didn't, I told you in the first PM I knew it wasn't under warranty and didn't expect you to do anything about it. But...I'm not exactly thankful that I blew about $125 or so on a sub that was worthless to me. What good does it do to get something "cheap" if you can't use it? To me, it was expensive, because I couldn't use it, it was $125 right down the drain.


I believe you also stated you would "keep quiet" about it regardless of what happened. Very nice of you to do so, thank you lol. But really, it doesn't bother me at all that you want to discusss it, or even your dislike of it, but it seems a bit odd to me that you really take it beyond any reasonable level of discussion without bringing any kind of data or observations we could look at. Many times we asked if you could at least cut it open, or give us a little more but I don't think we ever heard back about it. 

I don't expect you to be happy about blowing a driver, no one is. But I think you do have to accept some of the responsibility for it.



89grand said:


> I think it's odd though, no matter how many times this happens, it's still considered to be just a few people. It's more than just a few. If the idea is to keep it a secret that this sub has no business in the hands of the average user, well then I'll do my best to help with that in the future.


Out of how many? I don't think I've seen more than 10 people that have brought this up with me. Let's be generous and call it 20, but you do realize there's over 400 approaching 500 of these things out there? I agree with you, and it's a great suggestion actually that perhaps instructions do need to be made. I've also operated under the assumption that people who buy subs labelled "sound quality" don't crank it all that hard, and that may have been a mistake. I thought mine hits pretty hard and I've never had any issues... same with Jun who has the original sub from over a year ago... so I didn't think twice when I probably should have. 

No one's trying to keep any secrets, and I think I've been very frank about it. Am I locking threads? Insulting anyone? Discounting anyone's experience? I think you need to look around again and see that this is perhaps one of the most open car audio discussion forums out there. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but that last comment struck me as a bit dissrespectful of the time, effort, and money I spend here that you enjoy.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> And that's what I'm getting at. Just because you don't thnk you were abusing it, doesn't mean you weren't.


That goes both ways right? Just because you think I was doesn't mean I was.

See, we're right back to square one again. 

BTW, my gain is no where near pegged, I haven't examined it recently, but I would guess it's below half way. It doesn't matter much since I have a level control on my HU that I use and haven't touched the gain since I installed the amp, so it wouldn't really matter.


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

don't you guys know any of this?

SQ is a genre of music that can only be listened to at low volumes, and does not include metal, rap, hip-hop,, rock,big band...etc..

Only slow, acoustic material.

It appears the DIYMA sub is an sq sub that can handle gobs of power only in a specific enclosure, at a specific frequency, with a specific music, and a subsonic filter, and the amp cannot be clipping. Duh!


Cause, we all know that clipping and Godsmack kill subwoofers!

Once you combine those items with low frequencies, your sub is TOAST!



disclaimer: (joking at the suggestions put forward in this thread, I have never used or heard the diyma sub, so I cannot comment on it's quality)


----------



## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> No, I'm suggesting that people listening to overprocessed, compressed music shouldn't be buying "SQ" subs, especially at the levels that the general listeners of that type of music listen to it at. Most, not all, Godsmack fans aren't listening at 90dB or lower.


thats retaarded


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

89grand said:


> That goes both ways right? Just because you think I was doesn't mean I was.
> 
> See, we're right back to square one again.
> 
> BTW, my gain is no where near pegged, I haven't examined it recently, but I would guess it's below half way. It doesn't matter much since I have a level control on my HU that I use and haven't touched the gain since I installed the amp, so it wouldn't really matter.


I agree, it does go both ways. I guess all my years in retail have made me a critical of most people that say they weren't hammering on their subs.


----------



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

you people are not listening how did i possibly over power it or this whole war that started **** i didnt overpower the sub and i had it in a good sealed box all i wanted is for npdang to replace it not start a war baout how people overpowered theirs etc some peoples subs work some dont mine just ened up taking a crap on me


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

internecine said:


> thats retaarded


No, it's common sense. Why bother with an SQ sub if you're going to listen to poorly recorded music, that compressed to make it an even poorer copy? Seriously. What's retarded is buying a sub intended for one thing, using it for another and then whining about it when it breaks. You ever see a Ferrari owner ***** because he can't strap his kayak to his roof and drive to Tahoe in the winter? Probably not.


----------



## DonutHands (Jan 27, 2006)

thats still retarded


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> You ever see a Ferrari owner ***** because he can't strap his kayak to his roof and drive to Tahoe in the winter? Probably not.


 
BAD BAD analogy. 

Speakers don't care if the music is compressed, in fact, they care more of how dynamic music would be. It would be much more dangerous to ask a driver to handle a 50 decibel swing when it's already cruising at 90 db's...Then you have trouble...


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

backwoods said:


> BAD BAD analogy.
> 
> Speakers don't care if the music is compressed, in fact, they care more of how dynamic music would be. It would be much more dangerous to ask a driver to handle a 50 decibel swing when it's already cruising at 90 db's...Then you have trouble...



I know the speaker doesn't care what it's reproducing. My point is why get an SQ sub to listen to crap? To be able to listen to high fidelity crap?


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

npdang, Just to make myself clear, I'm not trying to be disrespectful towards you or the site in general. I think the subwoofer has a purpose, I think you designed it knowing exactly what it was, I think you wanted to bring a great subwoofer to the market for SQ people, I doubt you made much money on the project in the process. I seriously don't think you are trying to pass of junk on anyone. 

I also think though, that a number of users don't really understand exactly how it should be used, myself included apparently. Most people don't think of subs as being very fragile, especially ones that look like a monster like the Diyma does. It appears that it could take a pounding, and it's surely a surprise to some when it can't. Personally, I didn't "pound" on it mainly because I don't listen to the type of music that promotes that. I'm a SQ guy mainly, even if some don't want to believe that. 

It sounded great for a few weeks and then the famous "car wash incident" happened. Perhaps I pushed it just a little too hard that day, but there isn't really any warning signs that it's about to happen. It didn't even buckle then, actually I think it did, just not enough that I could see anyway, but the ringing appeared which I believe is due to the cone buckling just enough to knock the voice coil out of whack and the ringing is the voice coil banging around in the gap. I came to that conclusion after cutting it open and being able to reproduce the ringing by knocking the voice coil back and forth in the gap.

I would except some blame if I thought I should, but that's the whole point here. I don't think I'm to blame, that's it in a nutshell. I honestly don't think I was. I'm not above admitting to it, it's no big deal to blow a speaker.

Really, if it some how helps anyone to hear me say it's my fault, I'll say, but I don't believe it.


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

89grand said:


> Well, I'm sure there will be more speculation since this thread is full of it, but anyway I would have expected to see (appearance wise) what happened to my sub if I was using a 2000 watt amp, blasting low frequency test tones in a ported enclosure. That's what it looked like I did. What I actually did, was use a 425 watt amp in a small .7 ft3 sealed enclosure and was listening, not to test tones, but Godsmack MP3, not exactly a super low bass recording.


I apologize in advance if I'm wrong, but I believe both times you said you were driving them pretty hard when they blew. The first time you were in a carwash and trying to show someone up at which point you cranked it hard, but up until that point where you were doing fine. The second time you mentioned that you don't pussyfoot around with new drivers and you want to see what they can do or something to that effect I believe. Now it seems as if you are trying to imply you were mildly using them and they just up and died on you?


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

internecine said:


> thats still retarded



Please tell me that's not the entire basis of your disagreement with my position.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

89grand said:


> npdang, Just to make myself clear, I'm not trying to be disrespectful towards you or the site in general. I think the subwoofer has a purpose, I think you designed it knowing exactly what it was, I think you wanted to bring a great subwoofer to the market for SQ people, I doubt you made much money on the project in the process. I seriously don't think you are trying to pass of junk on anyone.
> 
> I also think though, that a number of users don't really understand exactly how it should be used, myself included apparently. Most people don't think of subs as being very fragile, especially ones that look like a monster like the Diyma does. It appears that it could take a pounding, and it's surely a surprise to some when it can't. Personally, I didn't "pound" on it mainly because I don't listen to the type of music that promotes that. I'm a SQ guy mainly, even if some don't want to believe that.
> 
> ...


You just said exactly what I've been getting at. It was the wrong sub for your application.


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

89grand said:


> npdang, Just to make myself clear, I'm not trying to be disrespectful towards you or the site in general. I think the subwoofer has a purpose, I think you designed it knowing exactly what it was, I think you wanted to bring a great subwoofer to the market for SQ people, I doubt you made much money on the project in the process. I seriously don't think you are trying to pass of junk on anyone.
> 
> I also think though, that a number of users don't really understand exactly how it should be used, myself included apparently. Most people don't think of subs as being very fragile, especially ones that look like a monster like the Diyma does. It appears that it could take a pounding, and it's surely a surprise to some when it can't. Personally, I didn't "pound" on it mainly because I don't listen to the type of music that promotes that. I'm a SQ guy mainly, even if some don't want to believe that.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I just wanted to be clear. Are you going to be at Autobachs this Saturday? I'll be there and you can hear my system because maybe I'm just an old man but I thought it hits pretty hard lol.


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

lexizpimpin said:


> you people are not listening how did i possibly over power it or this whole war that started **** i didnt overpower the sub and i had it in a good sealed box all i wanted is for npdang to replace it not start a war baout how people overpowered theirs etc some peoples subs work some dont mine just ened up taking a crap on me


You bad boy you  Yeah, just email me and we'll get it taken care of. Regardless of what anyone has said of the sub, I don't think they've ever said that they were not taken care of.


----------



## CMR22 (Feb 10, 2007)

quality_sound said:


> Please tell me that's not the entire basis of your disagreement with my position.


Certainly I have seen people ask "what type of music do you listen to" when responding to a question about which sub to use but I have never seen someone ask "along with telling us what type of music you listen to please also name each artist and CD so I can research how much and what type of processing was used during the recording session and, in addition, I will need to know the format you will be using to play back the recording".


----------



## eqrenthorn (Apr 18, 2007)

I happen to occasionally listen to some "overprocessed, compressed" music when the mood strikes, and again, the DIYMA handles admirably with 1000 watts in a .9 cu ft sealed enclosure. I still think the central issue is the requirement of an adequate subsonic filter more than anything else.

Is the original poster 100% sure he had his on at the time? I know he mentioned he did, but it might be a good idea for him to double check.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

npdang said:


> I apologize in advance if I'm wrong, but I believe both times you said you were driving them pretty hard when they blew. The first time you were in a carwash and trying to show someone up at which point you cranked it hard, but up until that point where you were doing fine. The second time you mentioned that you don't pussyfoot around with new drivers and you want to see what they can do or something to that effect I believe. Now it seems as if you are trying to imply you were mildly using them and they just up and died on you?


No, I'm not implying I was just loafing along with them. I had it loud at the carwash and I don't deny that, but it was still sounding clean. To me, playing it loud is not aking for it to blow. I wouldn't have cranked it to the point I did if I didn't think it was safe. I play it ever bit as loud today with no problems, actually I've been on it even harder because my sub seems to not mind it.

The second one, the same thing, except I went straight to it, playing it as loud as I probably ever would in the future, again, nothing insane, I don't even have the power to rattle windows and ****. I figured it's either going to last into the future or die an early death. I died an early death, but it was going to happen eventually, I just didn't ***** it to give myself false hope.


----------



## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

npdang said:


> You bad boy you  Yeah, just email me and we'll get it taken care of. Regardless of what anyone has said of the sub, I don't think they've ever said that they were not taken care of.



Oh its true NP takes care of people. I got taken care of and I didn't even buy one once  . He offers great customer support!!!!


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

CMR22 said:


> Certainly I have seen people ask "what type of music do you listen to" when responding to a question about which sub to use but I have never seen someone ask "along with telling us what type of music you listen to please also name each artist and CD so I can research how much and what type of processing was used during the recording session and, in addition, I will need to know the format you will be using to play back the recording".


I don't think I did. I asked what type of music and he responded with Godsmack on .mp3. Godsmack alone would have been enough for me to have a rough idea though.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> I don't think I did. I asked what type of music and he responded with Godsmack on .mp3. Godsmack alone would have been enough for me to have a rough idea though.


I think you're concentrating too much on the Godsmack MP3. I listen to all kinds of different stuff. That just happened to be what I was listening to when it happened. It's not like I listen to stuff like that exclusively.


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

89grand said:


> That just happened to be what I was listening to when it happened.


That's kind of the point here, to find out WHY it broke. You said it yourself.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> That's kind of the point here, to find out WHY it broke. You said it yourself.


Honestly, I find it kind of hard to believe a particular song broke my sub.

I've never known a speaker to be rated for only certain styles of music.


----------



## technobug (Mar 15, 2005)

lexizpimpin said:


> you people are ignorant i never said the sub was bad i just want to find out what to do with it
> 
> the sub sounded great!!!!!! i want another one but i want to find out what to do with this one


So go buy another one to replace the one that you broke. WTF is the big deal? You broke something, so either fix it? or get rid of it. End.

I've managed to damage (4) Seas Neos, to the point where they won't play anymore. The damn leads are ver fine and the terminals aren't very secure. Makes for a bad combo. But have I been bitching on the phone to some guy in Norway? NO Have I been flaming them on the boards in order to somehow get the sympathy vote? NO

Grow up man.

I own 2 of them. Out of anyone on this board I've been running mine the longest as I own the prototype. The ONLT time it has made strange noises was when I failed ensure there was a proper seal on the gasket. My sub sees almost 800w in a 0.38cu sealed enclosure. Not a single problem in over a year.


----------



## technobug (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh ya one more thing......I don't run a sub sonic.

It's recommended though, so probably better to be safe.


----------



## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

89grand said:


> I've never known a speaker to be rated for only certain styles of music.


 werd.


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

In summary, the diyma is a tremendous sub, however, you have to treat it very delicately. Thats the trade off for the super low price. 

Possibly explain in detail in the sub description what precautions should be taken.

And in the long run, Npdang take care of his customers regardless if its their fault for the most part. 

Still want a new cone though.


----------



## Bsams (Feb 8, 2007)

sorry gotta jack the thread for a bit.lol i am considering a diyma but am hesitant now. why doesnt someone who claims there is nothing wrong with it measure the output? to prove it gets "plenty" loud. i dont think i abuse subs by any means, my current setup is a single Directed Audio Studio 10 D4 rated @ 400watts rms, and I have been running it with 1000 rms for over 4yrs now with a ss filter, and had no problems. it sounds great and all but I just want more output. just wish i knew what type of output to expect out of the diyma 12 as everyones perception of plenty loud varies. guess i could always get 2?


----------



## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Bsams said:


> sorry gotta jack the thread for a bit.lol i am considering a diyma but am hesitant now. why doesnt someone who claims there is nothing wrong with it measure the output? to prove it gets "plenty" loud. i dont think i abuse subs by any means, my current setup is a single Directed Audio Studio 10 D4 rated @ 400watts rms, and I have been running it with 1000 rms for over 4yrs now with a ss filter, and had no problems. it sounds great and all but I just want more output. just wish i knew what type of output to expect out of the diyma 12 as everyones perception of plenty loud varies. guess i could always get 2?


If youre looking for more output, try some other subs. lots of high excursion 10s out. Doesnt sound like the diyma is a match for your needs.


----------



## Kenny Bania (Aug 1, 2007)

89grand said:


> I figured the first failure was a fluke since I wasn't driving it to any extremes, at least I don't think so.





> I don't see the misinformation I'm spreading.





> These subs appear to have serious problems.





> Or better yet, use something you don't have to worry about self destructing.





> I don't see the misinformation I'm spreading.





> I also think though, that a number of users don't really understand exactly how it should be used, myself included apparently





> I don't see the misinformation I'm spreading.





> I don't think I'm to blame, that's it in a nutshell. I honestly don't think I was. I'm not above admitting to it, it's no big deal to blow a speaker.
> 
> Really, if it some how helps anyone to hear me say it's my fault, I'll say, but I don't believe it.





> I don't see the misinformation I'm spreading.


How about now?


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Kenny Bania said:


> How about now?


No! WTF are you talking about?

You still hurt over that Rolling Stones thing?

You sure are a sensitive little thing!


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

Bsams said:


> sorry gotta jack the thread for a bit.lol i am considering a diyma but am hesitant now. why doesnt someone who claims there is nothing wrong with it measure the output? to prove it gets "plenty" loud. i dont think i abuse subs by any means, my current setup is a single Directed Audio Studio 10 D4 rated @ 400watts rms, and I have been running it with 1000 rms for over 4yrs now with a ss filter, and had no problems. it sounds great and all but I just want more output. just wish i knew what type of output to expect out of the diyma 12 as everyones perception of plenty loud varies. guess i could always get 2?


If you're moving from a 10" to a 12", saying that you stay within the same output as you're getting with the Directed Studio (roughly 14mm 1 way xmax) you'd see a gain of around 2~3db. Add another sub would give you another 3db. It really just depends on how much more output you want.


----------



## Kenny Bania (Aug 1, 2007)

89grand said:


> No! WTF are you talking about?
> 
> You still hurt over that Rolling Stones thing?
> 
> You sure are a sensitive little thing!


Your actions and your words speak for themselves. 

I feel sorry for npdang in this situation as he's been gracious and understanding and just all around nice with the OP and you. Yet you continue to run your mouth and dig yourself deeper and deeper. I guarantee you I'm not the only one seeing this. 

Goodby Ruby Tuesday.....


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Kenny Bania said:


> Your actions and your words speak for themselves.
> 
> I feel sorry for npdang in this situation as he's been gracious and understanding and just all around nice with the OP and you. Yet you continue to run your mouth and dig yourself deeper and deeper. I guarantee you I'm not the only one seeing this.
> 
> Goodby Ruby Tuesday.....


OK great, so I guess you'll go back to off topic then?

I'll make a mental note that you are quite sensitive and keep that in mind for the future.


----------



## Kenny Bania (Aug 1, 2007)

89grand said:


> OK great, so I guess you'll go back to off topic then?
> 
> I'll make a mental note that you are quite sensitive and keep that in mind for the future.


Yes, thanks...but I think I'll stay here and defend npdang for awhile. I just thought I should seeing as though I've run at least 3 different amps in the ranges of 330-700 watts to my DIYMA Ref 12 and loved every minute of it.

Yes, a fair bit more sensitive then your ears are to clipping...apparently.


----------



## newtitan (Mar 7, 2005)

ive blasted the heck out of my pair off about 400 or so watts in .9 cubes firing down and have yet to have a problem

still dont understand how you could destroy one of these, the way people are claiming????


----------



## Hillbilly SQ (Jan 26, 2007)

newtitan said:


> ive blasted the heck out of my pair off about 400 or so watts in .9 cubes firing down and have yet to have a problem
> 
> still dont understand how you could destroy one of these, the way people are claiming????


you're holding your mouth just right...or you have one helluva amp pushing them


----------



## SOHCKing03 (Nov 21, 2006)

Alright since no one is posting up pics, here I go...










I do not know why it happened, but the cone broke... so I'll fix it.

Wanna complain some more people, go ahead. I don't see one person on here attempting to solve the problem, just a bunch of people throwing out theories... yeah, THEORIES!

Npdang is actually trying to fix this and yet no one else is helping. So ya know what, I will help. I will make a Kevlar, fiberglass, and paper cone. I will work all the time to get to the bottom of this problem, even if it takes making a second DIYMA. Heck, I'll even name it right now... the Diyma Dv2. So be on the look-out for pics. I'll be posting polls on here too for suggestions and opinions.

If someone wants to help us out too, let me know. Everyone can stop bickering though.

-Brad


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Kenny Bania said:


> Yes, thanks...but I think I'll stay here and defend npdang for awhile.


Defend him against what? I don't know him personally, but he seems like a great guy, a stand up sort. I have no issues with him at all. I just think his subs sucks.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

I've got a few pictures when the cone buckled. I don't what good they'll do though.


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

after reading this entire thread and using the sub for a few months now, i have come to the following conclusions:

-- use a ss filter with the DIYMA 12

-- I have found that the sub is very inefficient and probably needs at least 500 
watts rms.

-- use a sealed box under 1 cu ft.

-- if you need more output to show off and want to use the sub, buy two

-- npdang has built the best sq sub woofer that i have ever listened to 

-- 89grand is far worse than the biggest ****ing idiot that i could have ever 
imagined posting on this forum.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

legend94 said:


> -- 89grand is far worse than the biggest ****ing idiot that i could have ever
> imagined posting on this forum.


Jesus Christ that's rich coming from you. 

You provide absolutely nothing here, nothing of value at all...ever, not even once that I can think of.

You're embarrassing.


With that out of the way, let's not run this thread into a love fest.


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

89grand said:


> I've got a few pictures when the cone buckled. I don't what good they'll do though.



shows me a photo of someone that has something they don't have the brain power to operate correctly.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

legend94 said:


> shows me a photo of someone that has something they don't have the brain power to operate correctly.


This is interesting though, that a seasoned know all of car audio like yourself would say this. According to you, you just have to be smart to use one, why would you need to cross your fingers?:



legend94 said:


> im keeping my fingers crossed that mine lasts long time! if not i hope a new version is made! if not, i would just get it reconed



Now, grow up. This thread is about the speaker, not your childish idiocy.


----------



## Kenny Bania (Aug 1, 2007)

89grand said:


> Defend him against what?


This...



> I just think his subs sucks.


It "sucks?" Well, that's a matter of opinion. A matter of fact is that you have just trash talked the person who's forum you are ruining with your mouth. The same person who has helped you with your neglect and misuse [WHICH YOU OPENLY ADMITED!!]. The same person who's made 490 people very happy with their purchase.

I think I would be a good idea if you just refrained from posting in this tread...or even on the forum for that matter, if you think it "sucks."


----------



## quality_sound (Dec 25, 2005)

89grand said:


> Honestly, I find it kind of hard to believe a particular song broke my sub.
> 
> I've never known a speaker to be rated for only certain styles of music.



Wasn't there someone here who went through 2 or 3 amps thinking the same thing???


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Kenny Bania said:


> This...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First off. Saying "*I think* it sucks", states that it's my opinion (hence the phrase...*I THINK*), does it not? 

Number 2, I never trash talked npdang himself, ever, and I resent you claiming I did. Not liking his subwoofer and trash talking him are two completely different things. If you don't know that, and apparently you don't, well that's your issue, not mine. 

Number 3, I never "openly admitted" anything of the sort. You're insane, or have comprehension issues, or both if you think I did.

Number 4, this site is not just about THE DIYMA SUB, in fact it doesn't seem to really be much of a factor here, it's about DIY audio. Also, there's only one person that can kick me off the site, and it ain't you noob!

Now, would the few dumbasses let this topic get back to the driver instead of trying to earn non existent brownie points by attacking me?


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

quality_sound said:


> Wasn't there someone here who went through 2 or 3 amps thinking the same thing???


Yes, and it was their subwoofer, not the song. In fact, I downloaded the same song they used and have played it a number of times with no issues.


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

lexizpimpin said:


> I bought 2 subs from ebay user NPDang one is still in box the other 1 i just used for 1 day and i hear a clank in my trunk the sub didnt get more then 150rms i open the trunk it poped like a flower like everyone elses wtf is this?? i dont understand you buy a sub and it breaks easier then a freaking cheap ass unknown brand sub people run pyle all day long nd etc and nothing this is supposed to be a good sub what am i supposed to do noww?


if you want to sell the damaged one, please pm me.  


89grand is president of audiobahn


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

legend94 said:


> 89grand is president of audiobahn



****, I wish. They may sell bling ********, but the President of Audiobling probably makes more money than most us here because idiots will buy anything.

Notice you don't see any low rent garbage in my sig right?


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

89grand said:


> ****, I wish. They may sell bling ********, but the President of Audiobling probably makes more money than most us here because idiots will buy anything.
> 
> Notice you don't see any low rent garbage in my sig right?


yeah i wish you would not have thrown the subs away...i would have bought them 

did you have the diyma powered from the ppi amp?


----------



## Kenny Bania (Aug 1, 2007)

89grand said:


> Number 3, I never "openly admitted" anything of the sort. You're insane, or have comprehension issues, or both if you think I did.





npdang said:


> @89grand, I don't think anyone is blaming you but I think people are saying you should accept some responsibility. You paid relatively little for the driver on ebay, bought it knowingly without any warranty, and I replaced it for you promptly and free of charge.* It was a bit of a shock to all of us that you would just heedlessly repeat the exact same behaviour that you knew destroyed your first sub!*


I'll take the Admin's words over yours, thank you. 



npdang said:


> That you would *continue to contribute to the mis-information that this driver is "seriously flawed" or that "most of these subs have failed" across this forum* and others is a bit dissapointing to me.





89Grand said:


> I don't see the misinformation I'm spreading.


It's hard to believe, but some people actually can't smell their own **** that their standing in. I'm not going to rehash this whole thread 89Grand, because anyone that reads it will see you destroying yourself all the way through it. And yet, you still continue to do so? I'm insane??


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

legend94 said:


> yeah i wish you would not have thrown the subs away...i would have bought them
> 
> did you have the diyma powered from the ppi amp?


If I had known there would be any interest in the damaged Diymas, I would have kept them. Considering what I payed for the one, trying to get a recone and paying shipping back and forth seemed stupid actually so I tossed them. They have a beautiful basket and magnet structure though.

I ran it with the JBL GTO 600.1.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Kenny Bania said:


> I'll take the Admin's words over yours, thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> It's hard to believe, but some people actually can't smell their own **** that their standing in. I'm not going to rehash this whole thread 89Grand, because anyone that reads it will see you destroying yourself all the way through it. And yet, you still continue to do so? I'm insane??


Suite yourself.

You're a waste of my time at this point. Regardless of what you want to believe, I have more knowledge by far, of what I was doing with my sub then anyone else.

So, you think you're going to get a free Diyma or something now?


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

89grand said:


> I ran it with the JBL GTO 600.1.


Should have went with the Infinity Reference instead. They have a subsonic filter.


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

ca90ss said:


> Should have went with the Infinity Reference instead. They have a subsonic filter.


:rubs salt in wound:


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

legend94 said:


> :rubs salt in wound:


Not really. First off, there's no wound to rub salt in, and number two, there's no reason to have to use a subsonic filter with a small sealed box. Number three, the Infinity amp IS the JBL in a different chassis.


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

89grand said:


> Number three, the Infinty amp IS the JBL in a different chassis.


But Infinity was smart enough to add a subsonic filter.


----------



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

npdang is awsome he is gona help me out thanks ohnesly very nice guy to deal with like i said before this was never to bash on the diyma sub it was just a problem like some of us had and i will be enjoying my other one hopefully everythig is gona be ok with it lol


----------



## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

*89grand*-I am a non-confrontational guy and 99.9% of the time try not to be or say negative things.

Every time you see a thread about them you same the same thing over and over. You bought a sub you blew it you got a replacement you blew that I thought that was the end of it. I still cannot believe you threw out the old sub but it was yours.

Look we all got it-you do not think the DIYMA is that great and everyone should be warned. Thats why we have a search function for them to read the 1,000 post you have made about this and that on the DIYMA. 

I am so tired of reading in your round about way argue with npdang about the same thing over and over. You say I am not trying to be disrespectful but come on man. You might as well be a man and say it instead beating around the bush. Basically this is what you are saying in the 89grand way "The DIYMA sucks, the design sucks, its a piece of crap, a waste of good money and do not buy one ever it will fail". 

If you just put this in the thread about them and ask them to PM you then you could say anything you want and it would not start a huge disagrement in the thread that turns to pointing fingers
*"Do a search for DIYMA and read all the stuff I have written if you have blown one or before buying one and if you have any questions PM me"-89grand*

Then they can read all your comments for the next 2 hours about the DIYMA.

Generally and you guys can search I never say stuff like this but I have had it with 89grand on the DIYMA topic.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Genxx said:


> *89grand*-I am a non-confrontational guy and 99.9% of the time try not to be or say negative things.
> 
> BUT STFU about the DIYMA. Every time you see a thread about them you spew the same Sh** over and over. You bought a sub you blew it you got a replacement you blew that----F**cking end of story. Then like a dumbass you go and throw away the subs because you are so smart. Umm motor, basket, ever heard of recone.
> 
> ...


Uhhhh...posts like this are exactly why I have to continue to talk about it.

I make one statement, then I'm countered with 10 more trying to insinuate that I'm an idiot. So I counter those, followed by 10 more again.

See what I mean?

I have no reason to drag this on, but when people start talking out of their asses about what I did, what the real reason was, etc, I feel I need to respond. 

I've never had an issue with you before and you're not trying to second guess what happened, oddly enough, but when someone tells me to shut up, I'm going to counter that too, and it snowballs into something much larger than it originally was, but in the end, no one else ever takes any responsibility for escalating it.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Would a moderator please lock this thread, pretty please


----------



## Whiterabbit (May 26, 2006)

89grand said:


> I have no reason to drag this on



Then don't.


----------



## 89grand (Nov 23, 2006)

Whiterabbit said:


> Then don't.


OK.

Everyone else though please feel free to make whatever assumptions you want towards me and what I did or didn't do, continue the attacks without the facts.

That's not dragging this on, apparently only my responses to that is keeping this going so this will be my last post on this thread.

I guess we can all expect this to be the last post in this thread than right?


----------



## ca90ss (Jul 2, 2005)

89grand said:


> I guess we can all expect this to be the last post in this thread than right?


Right


----------



## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

I apologize to the DIYMA community and for the record do not have a personnel issue with 89grand. Nor am I judging what you did. Its only what continues to be said after. Especially when it appeared you had made a man to man agreement with npdang and that it would dropped. That is really my only issue. I just finally got feed-up. I will edit my post to clean it up. The original has been edited.


----------



## legend94 (Mar 15, 2006)

lexizpimpin said:


> npdang is awsome he is gona help me out thanks ohnesly very nice guy to deal with like i said before this was never to bash on the diyma sub it was just a problem like some of us had and i will be enjoying my other one hopefully everythig is gona be ok with it lol


unless you plan on buying more power and a ss filter, you might as well sell the new one to me


----------



## Infinity (Jun 28, 2005)

ca90ss said:


> But Infinity was smart enough to add a subsonic filter.



Heh heh heh

sig


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Some may think this is rich coming from me, but once the motives behind a statement are attacked, there is no returning to constructive discussion. I think I have tried and nothing short of giving in seems to work. Bullying leads to defensiveness and on it goes. This forum has been the best one around because the discourse has been civil, even without moderation. When we are in the mood for some ad hominem attacks, it's time to move to a forum where the members enjoy the sport, or at least take it to Off Topic

I don't have any direct experience with the DIYMA 12 and I have very little technical knowledge about sub design or manufacturing - in short, I'm perfectly qualified to contribute to this thread 

I have followed the DIYMA 12 saga from conception and the problem is pretty clear. The DIYMA 12 was designed for maximum accuracy. It was designed by the king of DIYMA for those wanting to use it carefully and willing to compromise on everything but value and SQ. The resulting product is effectively a butterfly wing driven by a jet turbine.

This is not a mass market product and it is not a general purpose product. It was designed to do one thing extremely well. By all accounts, it does exactly that. 

We divide the mobile audio world into two groups - SQ and SPL listeners. If anyone asks me, I will tell them that I am absolutely an SQ listener. I love to hear the sound of fingers on the strings of an acoustic guitar as if I were right in front during a live performance. Then again, I sometimes like to turn the volume to 11 and shriek along with the Lyres, early Clash or The Undertones. Did I lie when I claimed to be an SQ listener? Not really. How about when I pull up to a stop light and see an attractive young woman waiting at the bus stop and turn it up to give her a little bump? I don't think so, *but it probably makes me a poor candidate for a DIYMA 12*. That's what I love about mobile audio - you create your own little world where you can do whatever you like. One of the few opportunities for most of us. At the same time, we need to select equipment that meets our actual needs.



npdang said:


> I agree with you, and it's a great suggestion actually that perhaps instructions do need to be made. I've also operated under the assumption that people who buy subs labelled "sound quality" don't crank it all that hard, and that may have been a mistake. I thought mine hits pretty hard and I've never had any issues... same with Jun who has the original sub from over a year ago... so I didn't think twice when I probably should have.


This comes from being too close to the project (and I absolutely mean no disrespect when I say this). Months of discussion, planning, testing, designing a sub that will do one thing perfectly. Everybody is behind it. Everybody participating in the discussion understands what compromises are being made. When the final product is released, it is priced like a mass market sub. People rave about how good it sounds. Who wouldn't want one?

Now that the sub is being sold without warranty, you might expect people will assume it is fragile, but most don't. They think they are gambling on there not being any manufacturing defects. Being fragile isn't an insult - it is an inevitable consequence of the design goals. It could have been designed for the mass market, but that was never the goal.

All of the problems can be traced to unintended confusion. Everyone would like an inexpensive sub that sounds great, the consumer is assuming it will meet their needs, the seller is assuming the public understands the compromises that were needed to achieve the primary objectives.

I believe some pretty basic disclaimers can solve the entire problem. Describe the trade offs in box size. Explain the need for a sub-sonic filter. Even take it to the level of making statements like: 

This sub is intended for accurate reproduction above all other things, including durability.
If you ever play your system at levels intended for the benefit of people outside the passenger compartment, this sub is not for you.

The rest of the problems in this thread are the result of the dynamics that can all to easily arise in the semi-anonymous e-world. I'm pretty sure that 89grand's assertion that the DIYMA 12 sucks is more the result of frustration than anything else. He used it according to his expectation of what an SQ sub should be able to do and is offended because he isn't being told the qualities of the sub weren't clearly explained, but that he used it improperly - a subtle but important distinction - I didn't make myself clear vs you are stupid. npdang believes the sub is 100% successful because it meets the design goals perfectly. Both are correct. All that stands between their positions is a written version of what was previously assumed.


----------



## backwoods (Feb 22, 2006)

You guys might want to switch to a foam surround. Everyone is looking at the cone, but it may be the surround is not stiff enough.

Sounds to me like the cone is one of the benefits of this sub, so I would try to leave that be, and fix the problem elsewhere.


----------



## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

from the pics, it looks to me like the cone material is not strong enough to endure motor strength and surround stiffness?

if the driver is advertised and reccommended as being able to handle xxx watts in a xxx cube box... and it fails under those condiditons, its falsely advertised imo.

how many subwoofers are there that have to be treated with 'kid gloves' or they fail?

none that i know of.?

recc power and enclosure specs should be accurate, looks to me like this driver can only handle a real 200 rms (safely) .


----------



## sundownz (Apr 13, 2007)

While I agree that the cone is weak and limits the design... npdang rates this driver thermally *only* with hard numbers and DOES state that mechanical handling varies with enclosure size. To an enthusiast this might answer the question up front. And at the price... I find it hard to complain even with the weak cone.

Yes, it would be helpful to give solid numbers for those that don't quite understand what that means and I'm sure he would consider doing so now that it has been brought up 

I have seen that the cone is quite fragile in person, so I do understand this totally -- but the overall design, other than that, looks good and performs very well. Granted, it does do the job quite nicely as-is for those that use a box that doesn't generate ridiculous back-pressure and who use caution with the volume. I do think that it would be an incredible value with a stronger cone... I agree with the earlier call for a fiberglass type!

I have helped to shred several big-boy subs in tiny sealed enclosures. A friend and I shredded a woofer that can normally be burped with 30kw (yes 30kw) with only 10kw in a 0.5 ft^3 sealed box. Believe it or not, the failure was not related to x-max as we were burping around 75 Hz and that thing has concrete for spiders and a paper cone that you could walk on. The pressure simply tore it to shreds.


----------



## skylar112 (Dec 8, 2005)

lukeboa said:


> looks to me like this driver can only handle a real 200 rms (safely) .


Luke, higly unlikely. Have you run this sub personally? I've thrown 900w into it for months and it was running perfectly. I've thrown 400w into it for months and ran perfectly until I decided to turn the gains up higher than where it should be for about a month. I was beating on it, and then sure enough like others tales my cone buckled too. I don't blame the woofer for that, as I know that *I* have purposely abused it to see whether I could buckle my sub. And sure enough my cone was messed up. I will not disagree that the cone is fragile and this sub requires extra attention. However that statement is rather misleading.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

Very well put, Don !!!

Butterflywings driven by jet engines  
One minutes fine, the next is black...so if you want me off yer back.
Come on and let me know, should I stay or should I go  

IDMAXes are considered fragile subs"by some".

My friend killed a couple SQ subs with too much of everything, he wanted it to sound like it did but only "LOUDER"!
They were MBQ's, second one made it a week  

He's using an AA, 12" Avalanche, the 2-35 amp fuses on his 9002 Orion went a couple a yrs ago, sub never even knew it


----------



## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

skylar112 said:


> Luke, higly unlikely. Have you run this sub personally? I've thrown 900w into it for months and it was running perfectly. I've thrown 400w into it for months and ran perfectly until I decided to turn the gains up higher than where it should be for about a month. I was beating on it, and then sure enough like others tales my cone buckled too. I don't blame the woofer for that, as I know that *I* have purposely abused it to see whether I could buckle my sub. And sure enough my cone was messed up. I will not disagree that the cone is fragile and this sub requires extra attention. However that statement is rather misleading.


a 1000 watt amp run at 10% is only showing a driver 100 watts i think? so its not about how big an amp has been run 'on' the driver, but its about how much power actually arrived 'at' the driver.

your right, my guess at 200 wrms could be misleading.

ive never used this driver so i know nothing


----------



## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

sundownz said:


> A friend and I shredded a woofer that can normally be burped with 30kw (yes 30kw)


pics? what driver takes 30kw for a burp?


----------



## npdang (Jul 29, 2005)

The sub is sold with a 30 day warranty for the whopping price of $117. In my experience if the sub survives 30 days with someone, it's not going to have any problems. But people are being frugal and purchasing subs with no warranty off ebay that start at 1 cent no reserve and usually end around $50-60. Many of the complaint posts you see here stem from ebay purchases. So far I've been nice enough to warranty those subs as well as pay for shipping them on my own dime. 

Another thing that I think bears mentioning but seems to get lost is that there are a good number of experienced members here including myself that are claiming good dynamics and the ability to push these subs with a fair amount of power on tap. Considering the number of units sold, the problem appears to affect only a relatively small minority. Why, I have yet to figure out definitively.

The problem I'm having is that those who are having issues aren't usually able to articulate what caused the problem to the level that I would need to come to some conclusion about it. I can run these subs at almost full stroke for hours on end and come back to a perfect sub. I've played music through them with some light clipping on a 1kw amp, and still have no issues. I practically had to drive into some heavy clipping to get the cone to buckle, but at the same time for comparison's sake I could also crack the cone on my Eclipse 8200 (albeit at a somewhat higher output level). Videos to come.


----------



## SOHCKing03 (Nov 21, 2006)

I cannot articulate the problem, but I sure am trying to find out. I think the problem may be that the people with damaged DIYMAs don't know enough about what CAN happen to the sub. Sure, we know what DID happen, but why not just look at all the causes and see if they match up to the effects.

-Brad

p.s. Npdang, when you have time can you PM me with some cone options or other ideas for fixing these problems? No rush, do it whenever.


----------



## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

npdang said:


> The sub is sold with a 30 day warranty for the whopping price of $117. In my experience if the sub survives 30 days with someone, it's not going to have any problems. But people are being frugal and purchasing subs with no warranty off ebay that start at 1 cent no reserve and usually end around $50-60. Many of the complaint posts you see here stem from ebay purchases. So far I've been nice enough to warranty those subs as well as pay for shipping them on my own dime.
> 
> Another thing that I think bears mentioning but seems to get lost is that there are a good number of experienced members here including myself that are claiming good dynamics and the ability to push these subs with a fair amount of power on tap. Considering the number of units sold, the problem appears to affect only a relatively small minority. Why, I have yet to figure out definitively.
> 
> The problem I'm having is that those who are having issues aren't usually able to articulate what caused the problem to the level that I would need to come to some conclusion about it. I can run these subs at almost full stroke for hours on end and come back to a perfect sub. I've played music through them with some light clipping on a 1kw amp, and still have no issues. I practically had to drive into some heavy clipping to get the cone to buckle, but at the same time for comparison's sake I could also crack the cone on my Eclipse 8200 (albeit at a somewhat higher output level). Videos to come.



Maybe I'm just fishing here, but could extreme temps, hot or cold, affect the properties of the aluminum enough to cause the few that have failed to fail. Maybe a really cold winter night or really hot day in the trunk combined with a loud listening session?


----------



## lexizpimpin (Jul 19, 2007)

npdang can you answer my pm please thanks =]


----------



## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Maybe I'm just fishing here, but could extreme temps, hot or cold, affect the properties of the aluminum enough to cause the few that have failed to fail. Maybe a really cold winter night or really hot day in the trunk combined with a loud listening session?


I think you're right on the money !

It is going to be a combination of things that unlock this one, that is why it is so hard to recreate.


----------



## Abmolech (Nov 2, 2006)

Cone angle, material and surround (decoupler) are VERY important characteristics of a driver. Mass and internal (cone)dampening, less so. 

This is clearly a low mass, low internal dampening cone design, mounted to a motor with very strong BL.

I have never used this sub, but I have designed, and had manufactured drivers to my specifications.(Custom built)

This cone angle is quite steep for a sub woofer, to gain rigidity, and this is why it fails(?) 
Personally it is a very good design, with some clear objectives. Please don't ruin it with "other cone" materials.
Decreasing the cone angle may help to alleviate the stress, however distortion will increase, possibly inside the required frequency bandwidth.

I would leave it as is. 
Otherwise it will become just another sub woofer in a flooded market. 

Put out a statement of maximum SPL at octave, and suggest if you want more, then, consider arrays mandatory.

Bottom line.
Nice design, leave it alone.


----------



## MiniVanMan (Jun 28, 2005)

One of the only options to keep the overall integrity of the design intact, while strengthening the cone, would be titanium. That's pretty costly though, and would put the driver out of reach of the people that appreciate it for what it is.


----------



## CBRworm (Sep 1, 2006)

My first thought is Wow, I can't believe this thread. I have been buying audio gear for more than 20 years. This sub has some issues (what we would call operator training problems at my company), but it costs 1/3 what other subs in it's range cost, and sounds better. What else can you buy for $117? For that price if it works for you - you got a killer deal. If it doesn't work for you, you're not out much money.

My second thought is that my first DIYMA lasted longer than my PDX (which cost 4 times as much). My current DIYMA sounds great now that I know how to use it. It will go quite loud quite clear. It is a sub of subtlety. That is not to say you can't listen to hip-hop or death metal - but you have to be aware of what the speaker is doing. 

This is akin to a race car or motorcycle from the past that doesn't have a rev-limiter. All the bikes and cars now come from the factory with a rev-limiter that basically you can hold the throttle wide open, and it will not hurt itself for a long time. 

In the past it was easy to build a bike or car engine that did not have computer controls and could easily overrev. All it took was one time. I used to race bikes and I always knew exactly when the damage was done. The redline was at 13,000, the limiter had been removed or moved too high. Cams, Valve springs, rods, pistons, everything was improved over stock, but still one single missed shift would run your valves into the pistons. Or more often you were in top gear going down the straight right next to another guy. You are already more than 1,000 rpm past redline, but if you let out the other guy wins. You make the decision to keep the throttle open. A couple hundred more RPM - then nothing. Your back tire is covered in oil and there is a clean cut all the way through the engine block from the broken rod still swinging from the crank. Race over.

That's the way this sub is - it has too much power and is overbuilt which will shred it's weakest link - which just happens to have to be light and rigid to sound good, all it takes is one mistake to do irrepairable damage, but if you take care of it it could last forever.


----------



## sundownz (Apr 13, 2007)

lukeboa said:


> pics? what driver takes 30kw for a burp?


Didn't take any pics, sorry  It was a "Pro Comp" 12 inch driver... motor looks alot like the RD Audio SHW but this driver has a different coil, suspension, lead configuration, cone, etc. Weights in over 80 pounds for the 12" model.


----------



## Boostedrex (Apr 4, 2007)

Couldn't a woven composite cone be used to keep a very light weight for the cone yet be stronger than thin aluminum? I am VERY much looking forward to installing my DIYMA and enjoying it for a long time to come.


----------



## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

quality_sound said:


> And since when is clipping bad? Clipping in and of itself is harmless.



For the amplifier yes, to drivers and passive crossovers sensitive to the increased harmonic content from clipping.... a resounding no!


Chad


----------

