# Easy way to check phase?



## z_accoustics (Sep 8, 2006)

I suspect that my tweeters and or mid basses are out of phase but I can't take apart the door right now to look at the leads or access the amp.

Is there an easy way to measure if a speaker is in or out of phase? I have a laptop, external audio interface, an microphone. I can also potentially hook the laptop up to the head unit and maybe register for a free trial of winMLS and do the impulse response?

that's a hard way though. is there a slightly easier way? Way back when I heard of a magical radioshack like device that you put next to your speaker while playing a setup CD and the device would tell you if the speaker was in or out of phase.

thanks for the help
-zach


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## bretti_kivi (Dec 3, 2007)

not really. You'd need to connect a battery to the leads of the speaker; rock - hardplace, choose 

Bret


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

With a phase checker....


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## z_accoustics (Sep 8, 2006)

chad said:


> With a phase checker....


I figure since I have near $2k worth of computer/audio gear, I shouldn't need to buy a stand alone $200+ phase checker.

So I got off my ass and registered winMLS 2004 and connected the comp to the head unit. The problem is that when I run the impedance check the measurement is unreliable. Sometimes it shows the signal in phase, but if I take another few measurements it will show it offset. I am using quality gear here, an edirol UA-5 interface with an ECM800 mic. Any helpful tips or pointers on doing a reliable phase check using wimMLS or other computer RTA?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

z_accoustics said:


> I suspect that my tweeters and or mid basses are out of phase but I can't take apart the door right now to look at the leads or access the amp.


Whoops :blush: !

The easiest way to check something you can't get at, is guess .


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

You if you are using certain slopes like 12/12 youwant the tweet 180 deg out of phase with the woofer USUALLY.

Do you want to check phase or polarity?


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## z_accoustics (Sep 8, 2006)

chad said:


> You if you are using certain slopes like 12/12 youwant the tweet 180 deg out of phase with the woofer USUALLY.
> 
> Do you want to check phase or polarity?


I am crossing the tweeters over at 2k with a 18db/oct. I have an active setup so I can go to 24db/oct if that is suggested. I don't think I can mess with the tweeter phase.

Polarity or phase... hmm. I am checking if the positive amp lead is connected to the positive tweet/woofer lead such that the speakers are moving in the same way (as opposed to the right speaker going in then out and the right speaker going out then in).


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## spydertune (Sep 9, 2005)

z_accoustics said:


> I figure since I have near $2k worth of computer/audio gear, I shouldn't need to buy a stand alone $200+ phase checker.
> 
> So I got off my ass and registered winMLS 2004 and connected the comp to the head unit. The problem is that when I run the impedance check the measurement is unreliable. Sometimes it shows the signal in phase, but if I take another few measurements it will show it offset. I am using quality gear here, an edirol UA-5 interface with an ECM800 mic. Any helpful tips or pointers on doing a reliable phase check using wimMLS or other computer RTA?


No reliable PC tips but I can tell you that my $200 Galaxy phase checker will sometimes give false data also. 

Usually when that happens it is based on mike position relative to the tweeter. 

Anything other than directly perpendicular to it can cause this to happen IME.

When checking the woofer however this almost never occurs.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

do you mean mechanically in phase or sonically in phase op?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

z_accoustics said:


> Polarity or phase... hmm. I am checking if the positive amp lead is connected to the positive tweet/woofer lead such that the speakers are moving in the same way (as opposed to the right speaker going in then out and the right speaker going out then in).





Megalomaniac said:


> do you mean mechanically in phase or sonically in phase op?


It would appear to be mechanically 

He is just wanting the drivers to move in the same direction at the same time


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

oh i see.

edit: you could just take a 9v battery at the speaker leads on the amp end and then shine a mag-light into the grill to see which way its pushing


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## boarder124 (Mar 16, 2006)

i was just about to suggest the 9v battery trick, good thinking megalomaniac


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## jowens500 (Sep 5, 2008)

Without any tools you can use the balance. Listen to just one channel at a time. If the mids are out of phase it will lack mid bass when centered.


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## ClassicCoupe (Aug 7, 2008)

Megalomaniac said:


> oh i see.
> 
> edit: you could just take a 9v battery at the speaker leads on the amp end and then shine a mag-light into the grill to see which way its pushing


I'd probably use a 1.5V battery rather than the 9V battery on the tweeters. 

Otherwise great for checking proper connections. If you've got positive battery terminal to positive speaker terminal (and negative to negative, of course...) then the cone will move outwards. If the connections are crossed (positive to negative and negative to positive) the cone will move backwards.


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## chad (Jun 30, 2005)

ClassicCoupe said:


> I'd probably use a 1.5V battery rather than the 9V battery on the tweeters.
> 
> Otherwise great for checking proper connections. If you've got positive battery terminal to positive speaker terminal (and negative to negative, of course...) then the cone will move outwards. If the connections are crossed (positive to negative and negative to positive) the cone will move backwards.


For example:

NOT with JBL 2118's that seem to be popular here  JBL is bass ackwards from the norm


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## BMWturbo (Apr 11, 2008)

You can use WinMLS or ARTA to check the phase of the drivers as mentioned.

Set it to 'Impulse Response' and make note of the initial peak or dip as it may be for each driver. If they are 'in phase' they will ALL peak or dip first. If the mids are out of phase with the tweeters they will peak when the other dips.

It really isn't that difficult nor does it take that long once you've done it once or twice.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

or 4 days later now, just take your door panel off and see :/


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## z_accoustics (Sep 8, 2006)

Did the battery test for the midbasses. That worked fine. As for the tweets. I think i'll just never know. They sound in phase with each other but not sure if they are in phase with the mids. I hadn't heard of ARTA before so thanks for that suggestion. I might hook up the ole apparatus and see if I can get a clean impulse measurement of the [email protected] 2k. Doubtful though.


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## Megalomaniac (Feb 12, 2007)

So your mids were out pf phase?


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