# 2001 Ranger Reg Cab Tweeterless Daily Build



## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

The purpose of this build was for entertainment on my hour and a half drive to work. I had the amp and subs in the closet so the install was only $640 before fabrication.

The speakers will be Tangband W3-1364 3" extended range for the highs, Peerless SLS 6.5" in the doors, and RE 8" woofers behind each seat. Everything will be powered by a Phoenix Gold XS6600 and receiving signal from a Alpine CDA-9853. I was going to use an equalizer but that will have to come later. Also, the radio in 3-way will not high pass at 400hz so I was forced to use 47uF caps in 2-way mode until I can set this up properly. 

I did a little work today and managed to get the battery terminals on. I purchased these at Parts Express and seemed to go on smoothly. Yes I need to clean my engine bay.

















I won't have time to work on the truck for another week but let me know comments/opinions or constructive criticism.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

I had a 2001 Ranger. I hated it. I now have a 2004 Ranger as a company vehicle. I like it better because I don't owe money on it.
I had the same system in my '01 as I now have in my current car. It sounded terrible in the Ranger. (I thought I knew all about stereos at the time...)

Subscribed for more updates


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

cant wait to hear your impression on the tweeterless idea


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

Cruzer said:


> cant wait to hear your impression on the tweeterless idea


It should be interesting but the worst case scenario would be to buy a new amp and tweeters for a 3 way setup with subs.



Notloudenuf said:


> I had a 2001 Ranger. I hated it. I now have a 2004 Ranger as a company vehicle. I like it better because I don't owe money on it.
> I had the same system in my '01 as I now have in my current car. It sounded terrible in the Ranger. (I thought I knew all about stereos at the time...)
> 
> Subscribed for more updates


Yea, no car notes here either. Did you mount everything in stock locations? I gathered speakers beaming straight at my knees and in the small of my back isn't very effective. I will be making my first attempt at glassing doors to put the speakers more on axis.


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## Notloudenuf (Sep 14, 2008)

derek0606 said:


> Yea, no car notes here either. Did you mount everything in stock locations? I gathered speakers beaming straight at my knees and in the small of my back isn't very effective. I will be making my first attempt at glassing doors to put the speakers more on axis.


The midbass was in the stock location but the tweeters were in the little vents at the corners of the dash (defroster vents maybe?) I'm not exactly sure what they do. No speakers in the back (I wouldn't put any back there ever) I didn't have any sound deadener, didn't seal up the doors, and didn't know how to adjust the passive crossover properly...so a total disaster all over. I did have a neat little down firing box that I designed and built to go behind the passenger seat.

IMO (and you will see and hear different opinions on this) midbass on or off axis doesn't make much difference. Your widebanders however IME roll off the highs the harder angle you get out of on-axis mounting.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

*Re: 2001 Ranger Reg Cab Tweeterless Daily BUDGET Build*



Notloudenuf said:


> The midbass was in the stock location but the tweeters were in the little vents at the corners of the dash (defroster vents maybe?) I'm not exactly sure what they do. No speakers in the back (I wouldn't put any back there ever) I didn't have any sound deadener, didn't seal up the doors, and didn't know how to adjust the passive crossover properly...so a total disaster all over. I did have a neat little down firing box that I designed and built to go behind the passenger seat.
> 
> IMO (and you will see and hear different opinions on this) midbass on or off axis doesn't make much difference. Your widebanders however IME roll off the highs the harder angle you get out of on-axis mounting.


I hope to not make the same mistakes you did but then again I'm no expert with crossovers either. Putting the speakers on axis seems to make more sense to me though especially after I made bookshelf speakers with Seas 6.5" and tweeter. 

Deadening will be another topic and I will go as far as doing what ever works and not buying every product known to man because the manufactuer gave it a description. People are using DAP Foam and I'm pretty sure that isn't anywhere in their marketing plan. I should have added Budget to the title :laugh:


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## jrock (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm also in Houston starting a budget install in a standard cab mini truck. Look forward to seeing it.


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

We used a Memphis 250watt amp and 2 Memphis MClass 8" subs in sealed enclosures for my brother in law's '94 reg cab ranger. Talk about tiny and he's about 6'1" and 260lbs!! Didn't take much to get loud though lol...


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

I did some work on the truck today. Mostly finishing the wiring. 

Radio in









Finished up under the hood finally









Un-boxed the speakers, they are beautiful.









Made some room for the wiring. Don't worry, the inverter is getting moved and properly ran wire.









Ground mounted and some second skin I had laying around was put on the rear shelf floor. 









Test a couple speakers.









Tomorrow I plan to fab and mount the speakers. Also, I did a quick test to make sure I had no problems with the wiring and I liked the sound from the 3" so far.

Fab plans will be mounting the 3" at the very top of the door panels where they meet the dash. It seems like the only practical place for them. I still haven't decided about the 6.5's yet but I did find a picture I fell in love with. 










I probably won't glass the entire door or paint because I'm not prepping a show truck. Modifying the stock location seems like a lot more work than this concept. The damn manual window crank seems to limit my options... A power window conversion seems worth it at this point but my better half is all ready freaking because I said it would be a cheap simple install. This will also be a first for me and I am worried about the traditional mounting (on the door frame) compared to the skin. Wouldn't air leak around the skin edge almost defeating door treatment or is it nothing to worry about? 

I was thinking of carefully lining the edge of the skin with closed cell foam to create a seal, then proceed to treat the door normally.

Give me comments on speaker positioning before it's to late! On or off axis mid bass with on axis 3" about 30" away from your face in 3" pvc end cap?


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

Ok it's not the prettiest work but it's my first time at heavy door modification for speaker mounting. Started with making rings from 1/2" Birch and some acrylic I had laying around.

This was a heat bend heat bend deal and the first one i was using adhesive but started using screws on the second for the sake of time.









Test fitting the speaker


















The passenger ring drying with construction adhesive... I saw a video last night about gel CA glue but I'm not spending $80 on glue.
















I will cut the pocket once dried but I was trying to keep as much of the plastic as possible to retain some strength before I lay the fiber glass. My only worry is when i stretch the cloth over the panels. If I pull to tight, it could warp the panel and not seat right on the doors.

Anyways, break time is over.


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## RByers (Feb 26, 2011)

Tuned in. Brother attempted his. Was a pain to try to wrap with vinyl and didn't turn out how we hoped. Now it's impossible to find tan door panels at the junk yard. Like the looks of the speakers

Here's his panels for ideas. Don't copy them. Won't work out. Lol


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Why not a kick panel install and save the integrity of the door card....the more forward the better


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## eltico7213 (Oct 26, 2011)

nice start.! let me know how the tweeterless design will work. i was actually thinking of doing something similar, just random thoughts in my head.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

trojan fan said:


> Why not a kick panel install and save the integrity of the door card....the more forward the better


I will take pictures but if u have ever sat in the ranger then kick panels would put the speakers directly where your foot should rest, making a very uncomfortable ride in an allready uncomfortable small cab. This is literally the only semi practical option I had...


eltico7213 said:


> nice start.! let me know how the tweeterless design will work. i was actually thinking of doing something similar, just random thoughts in my head.


Will do, hopefully I can get comments from the other houstonian watching this. This is my first true sq oriented instal so I'm not trying to raise the bar or nothing.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

If your 9853 is anything like my 9855, you can set the high pass crossover from "maker" to "user", and that will let you highpass your fullrangers below 1kHz.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

benny said:


> If your 9853 is anything like my 9855, you can set the high pass crossover from "maker" to "user", and that will let you highpass your fullrangers below 1kHz.


Please share... I didn't see this in the manual.


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## benny (Apr 7, 2008)

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500CDA9853.PDF

Page 18 in the manual mentions it. You can bypass the HPF on the high channels altogether, so watch your volume level when playing with this.


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

I don't know how high you plan on playing the sls's, but I don't think I'd aim them up at the listener. I'd get them as close to the boundary of the cabin as possible.

I have a very similar setup in my 2000 extended cab, but anything above ~300 hz. on the sls sound muddy.
How low do you plan on taking the sls?

EDIT: I reread your first post, 400 hz. may be a little high for the sls. Your ears will be the judge.

If you are going to vent the sls into the door you will have to seal the crap out of it or cancellation will become a major problem.

I don't know how much work (and chopping) you are willing to do.
If you look throught the speaker mounting hole in the door you'll fing nothing forward of the front window track, there's alot of space to work with.
However, unless you recess the driver you will make contact with the plastic panel.

I have a build log on another site and will post link/pics if you're interested.

Subscribed.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

benny said:


> http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500CDA9853.PDF
> 
> Page 18 in the manual mentions it. You can bypass the HPF on the high channels altogether, so watch your volume level when playing with this.


You are correct, thank you!



cobra93 said:


> I don't know how high you plan on playing the sls's, but I don't think I'd aim them up at the listener. I'd get them as close to the boundary of the cabin as possible.
> 
> I have a very similar setup in my 2000 extended cab, but anything above ~300 hz. on the sls sound muddy.
> How low do you plan on taking the sls?
> ...


Well the work has all ready started and the rings are secured on the door so too late for that. The speakers are not totally on axis because they would interfere with leg room. I plan to stop them around 60 to 100hz depending on how the sub output is. Thanks for the input and don't forget that link!


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

Since you asked, here are the links.
I do things a little differently than others at times.

This is the front stage.

Ranger Front Stage (pic heavy) - SSA Car Audio Forum

The is the sub stage, I didn't keep it in the truck for more than a few weeks.
It took up too much space and didn't integrate the way I wanted.

4- sa-8 enclosure - SSA Car Audio Forum


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## jonnyanalog (Nov 14, 2007)

@Derek0606-
I worked with Jordan Ray. He owned the truck you referenced. It was very well done. That guy is one hell of a good fabricator. small world.
Good luck with your build!


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

cobra93 said:


> Since you asked, here are the links.
> I do things a little differently than others at times.
> 
> This is the front stage.
> ...


Much appreciated and nice build. Hopefully this mudiness you speak of will be less evident as I see many differences in both our installs. Cross over frequency being a huge difference but someone correct me if I'm wrong and hopefully I can pick up higher frequencies more accurately being on axis vs your 90 degree aim including a speaker bouncing off the door pockets. Another is I will not be in a totally sealed environment wilhoch means my roll off should sound a little more natural and sacrafice power handeling but that's not a concern with my current amp. Also, considering ur steel fabrication.... can it be possible to have an enclosure too stiff? I'm not knocking your instal but its just differences I saw that may change how the speaker responds. 

One thing I did have a huge question on was the high range speaker location on the sails. How did you like it, where did u aim them, and what's the cross over point?


jonnyanalog said:


> @Derek0606-
> I worked with Jordan Ray. He owned the truck you referenced. It was very well done. That guy is one hell of a good fabricator. small world.
> Good luck with your build!


Awesome! I have always been a fan of that truck and would like to know how he started the shape of the speaker mounts. I have an idea in mind but I will roll the dice and see if it works.

After much reading I am hesitant about speaker position and will probably install the speakers for a test run before I resin the fleece. Probably hot glue the tang bands in different locations every few days. Anyways, its bed time and hopefully everything sounds good when I have a listen tomorrow.


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

Thanks for the kind words, the build was rushed due to the weather getting cold.

This was my first attempt at going active.
I wanted it to be as easy as possible, a learning experience.
This is a stepping stone to "better" systems in my future vehicles.

I think most people that have tried the sls will tell you they didn't like them above ~300hz., but you ears are the only judges that matter.

I wound up on the sail panels to gain as much width as possible without any obstructions between them and my ears.

I tested using 3" pvc end caps for many hours to arrive at this location and x-over point, 250hz 12 db. (my system is in my sig)

I tested the FR88ex and W3 back and forth.
I found the w3 would sound better at lower volume, but got harsh at higher volume. 
I also found I could cross the FR88ex lower, this kept the stage from being pulled down.

There's a thread about the W3 on here somewhere, it seems that 300hz. was as low as they wanted to go, I've had the FR88 down to 200hz. with no problems. They may go lower, but I'm still wanting a mid that will hammer mid bass up to 1000hz. or so. I have to do a rebuild with allot more testing.
I've got 4-anarchy's waiting for this.

I wound up pointing them at my dome light, I didn't lose much top end.
I think you may find the W3 want to be a little more on axis.

I don't think an enclosure can be too stiff.
One thing I found was the sls can/will move allot of air, if you have any leaks back into the cab your bass will be seriously crippled.
I tried one with a 1/2" baffle bolted to the door and all the holes in the inner door panel sealed the best I could with tape and deadener (no door card) and was not impressed with their performance. I had to be multiple times it was my install before I built two 3/4" plywood boxes(.3 c.f.) and put them in the truck. 
Damn, what a difference!
This is why you see the enclosures in my doors.


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## Cruzer (Jul 16, 2010)

holy crap cobra thats sweet,, but a ton of work and time. i bet u had plenty of mid bass


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

@ Cobra93
Thank you so much for the good reply! I will keep all this in mind while doing the stereo. The W3 is almost perfectly on axis and the SLS is at a 30 or so degree upward tilt. I planned to make the door skin itself an enclosure so hopefully that puts your mind at rest.


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

Cruzer said:


> holy crap cobra thats sweet,, but a ton of work and time. i bet u had plenty of mid bass


Thanks very much.
I used materials and techniques that were easiest for me.
I'm a steel fabricator by trade. 

It's all relative and we become desensitized easily.
I had to go without any subs for a week or two to appreciate what the sls are capable of. 

I will say I have limited experience with drivers and such.
I try to do as much research as I can to waste the least amount of cash.

Damn, I wish K. Haskins would've produced the 8" anarchy's.
I also wish car manufactures would give us some room in our doors, depth wise. 
Cars are getting more and more round. The door glass should be farther form the inner door panel, giving us more depth, but some how this doesn't seem to be the case.

My next system will utilize the "cone of confusion" to give me more mid bass.
I like the thoughts and ideas I keep reading form Patrick Bateman.


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

derek0606 said:


> @ Cobra93
> Thank you so much for the good reply! I will keep all this in mind while doing the stereo. The W3 is almost perfectly on axis and the SLS is at a 30 or so degree upward tilt. I planned to make the door skin itself an enclosure so hopefully that puts your mind at rest.


No problem.
If you have any more questions and I'm able to give help, I'm happy to do so.
I wasn't able to do kick panels, for specific reasons, this is why I kept the drivers behind the door panel.

Sorry, I didn't mean to get your build off topic, that's why I didn't just start posting pics and links.

Have you played with the sls yet, or are you waiting to hear them for yourself?

If they don't "putout", give `em a few beers, umm I meant check for leaks around the edges of the door panel.
I'll also state that I have 2 sls per .3 c.f. sealed pod and they have no problems with 40 hertz or lower, it only depends on program material and power.

If you start wanting more volume out of the W3, look to the FR88ex. When I got mine they were only ~$25.00 each. I see they're $39.00 now, but still worth it. 
The W3 is deeper and narrower than the FR88, but the FR88 is shallower and wider than the W3.
If you build your pod for the W3 big enough, you could try both and decide for yourself.

Good luck in achieving your goals!


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

No worries here, I asked for criticism and help when I started this. I happened to suck down a spaten optimator tonight when rigging up the panels. Sounded ok but needs some tuning and I will have to answer my issues as I ride with them in the truck for a bit. As far as tuning a full active setup or anything like this I am a complete novice. The w3's were definately a bit scratchy or harsh at high volume and the mids need a stable mount (fiberglass for stability) because I could hear the inconsisentcy. Also, I noticed they need a sealed environment even when I jumped the crossover up to 100 they didn't pack the punch expected. All in all I'm happy with the stage width but still couldn't center the stage quite right. Sorry for the scattered thoughts but I would like to get them in black and white in case I forget. 

Also I have the sls crossed from 100 - 400 right now with the slope at 1 blending into the high range
The w3 is of course at 400 up and slope of 1. Too tired to look up the slopes in my manual right now. Any input in testing or what I should be trying then please give your thoughts.


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

When you get a minute, add your equipment to your sig.
I don't see any amps in your first post.
State your goals/expectations for this system to help me not ramble about what I like.

As far as x-over points go, I worked from high to low.
Gain adjustments, I set with a DMM then adjusted to my ears.
Like I said before, Your ears matter most.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

I thought i posted it in the first post but it's an Phoenix Gold XS6600.

Overall I appreciate a warm smooth sound. I can't stand harsh highs but that doesn't mean I don't like detail. Don't know if this helps any but hopefully you understand. A smooth flatter realistic sound. I went tweeter-less because most tweeters hurt my ears. I am going to set the gains now either with an oscilloscope or a DMM. Never used the oscilloscope so I may just stick to what works since it's the first step.


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

I would probably use a DMM on the channels for the w3s to give me a reference, say 35 watts or so.
That's what I usually do, then finish tuning by ear.
I've heard so many arguments against an O-scope that I wouldn't buy one for this purpose, but I'd probably use it if I had one.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

Yea I think I'm going to use the oscope and do a comparison with what I have now. One of my 6.5" rings fell off in the Texas heat but they nearly sit on the floor anyways. I can't say I didn't expect much out of construction adhesive lol.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

Ok after setting the gains I can't seem to tune this to my liking. Its like the more I listen to it I begin to hate it. Also, when the drivers side 6.5" fell I moved it where a kick panel would be and I must say the difference it made was amazing compared to the doors.

I will post the settings after work in case I'm doing this wrong. I'm at a loss here and really need help. Biggest problem and concern is I heard distortion through the w3 but keep the gain all the way down because they are running at nearly maximum power.


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## Paul1217 (Aug 12, 2007)

You can get some pretty decent CA glue at Hobby Lobby for $5 for the big bottle. I use the crap out of it and love it, much cheaper than the stuff I've seen online. They sell a pump bottle of accelerator, too, but I dont like the bottle. I buy aerosol Nail glue dryer from Sally Beauty supply for $10 a can and it works great. I cant imagine waiting on liquid nails curing fast enough to be that effective for what you were trying to do.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

Thanks for the info! I am probably going to set the rings again because its a pita to get in and out of the truck now. I may even end up doing kick panels because they sound fantastic on axis; but I have been hesitant to cut the metal to gain the room necessary.


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

derek0606 said:


> Ok after setting the gains I can't seem to tune this to my liking. Its like the more I listen to it I begin to hate it. Also, when the drivers side 6.5" fell I moved it where a kick panel would be and I must say the difference it made was amazing compared to the doors.
> 
> I will post the settings after work in case I'm doing this wrong. I'm at a loss here and really need help. Biggest problem and concern is I heard distortion through the w3 but keep the gain all the way down because they are running at nearly maximum power.


Can you be more specific as to what you don't like?
Can you nail it down to one set of drivers or is it the system in general.
Are you listening/tuning one set of speakers at a time to get a feel for the range you like them in, don't like them in?

Can you post some new pics of where you're at right now?

Allot of questions I know, but it'll help me/us figure out possible solutions.
Don't give up.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

cobra93 said:


> Can you be more specific as to what you don't like?
> Can you nail it down to one set of drivers or is it the system in general.
> Are you listening/tuning one set of speakers at a time to get a feel for the range you like them in, don't like them in?
> 
> ...


I know for a fact that it is the 3" speakers; their performance has diminished to what I think is a blown speaker. There is to much distortion that wasn't there before. It crossed my mind when I bought them but I was feeding them 25W from the amp which is very close to the max.

I balanced the speakers by balancing right and left then proceeded to set the TA and EQ. When I set the gains, I used 75% of the max volume for safety and didn't touch the gain on the 3" because they were being pushed so hard. Funny thing is i have heard of people running these things with 50-100 if crossed above 300-400.

So I may shop for a amp and have gave parts express a call about getting them checked out and even rebuilt. Who knows, it may not even be worth it!

So much for trying to use an amp I had laying around... Who knows I will continue to play with it and see what I come up with.

No new pics because I haven't glassed anything... They are just glued rings on a door lol


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

derek0606 said:


> I know for a fact that it is the 3" speakers; their performance has diminished to what I think is a blown speaker. There is to much distortion that wasn't there before. It crossed my mind when I bought them but I was feeding them 25W from the amp which is very close to the max.
> 
> I balanced the speakers by balancing right and left then proceeded to set the TA and EQ. When I set the gains, I used 75% of the max volume for safety and didn't touch the gain on the 3" because they were being pushed so hard. Funny thing is i have heard of people running these things with 50-100 if crossed above 300-400.
> 
> ...


Well at least you know what you want and what you don't like.
Sucks to loose any equipment, but better a less expensive driver than an amp.

I would question whether anyone is really putting 50-100 watts to these things.
I had 20-25 watts, no crossover, on the W3s and I thought they started to really shriek above that level.

Does this mean you haven't heard the sls yet, not "sealed up" anyway?


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

cobra93 said:


> Well at least you know what you want and what you don't like.
> Sucks to loose any equipment, but better a less expensive driver than an amp.
> 
> I would question whether anyone is really putting 50-100 watts to these things.
> ...


Yea.... I'm not believing it at this point because even turning the w3 down on the deck doesn't help much. If there is a strong punch in a song, it sounds like they fade off and scratchy... I ran the cross over up and a little down but it brought another question to mind. Maybe I should stop expecting results out of my temporary mounts and enclose everything. The lack of midbass could be from these things flopping around free; the scratchy thump they make sounds very similar. I may just order some new ones and compare and if everything else checks out well then I will make some kind of cabinet for these in the garage. I will check them on my home theater receiver in case its a signal problem from the deck or amp. Any thoughts?

Slower full note music like country plays great but if I throw something fast like rap it plays like junk and can't seem to keep up for some reason. Just a scenario of what I'm dealing with here. They may be fine and just not the driver for me or this stereo.

Also, I think the Fab plans may change. I put the sls in the kick panel on axis and it seemed to help. The high crossover point had that decission made up. I allready cut up my doors but nothing some fiberglass can't fix. Plus I feel like I'm going to kick these things everytime I get in the truck.


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

Your last post has me a little confused.

Take a couple of quick pics of your drivers/enclosures, your problems could be obvious if you do.
The impression I'm getting is that the sls are mounted to a baffle, but not enclosed at all, (no isolation between front and back).
Is this correct?
The enclosure doesn't have to be sealed, but you have to stop the front wave from interacting with the back wave. You'll be amazed at the difference in the sls when you've achieved this.
Two little *sealed* boxes big enough to fit the sls in placed on the floor in front of the door/kick will reassure you of their capabilities. 

I thought you didn't like the w3, but now it sounds like the sls, or both.
If the back of the sls isn't isolated form the front you'll have no mid bass, only cancellation.

You seem to be in "limbo" right now with a half started/finished system.
You have some good equipment, that will perform on par with the install.
If you haven't heard the statement "installation is everything", this is where this comes into play and you have first hand experience of how important it is.

Put up a couple of quick pics when you get a chance.


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

derek0606 said:


> Ok it's not the prettiest work but it's my first time at heavy door modification for speaker mounting. Started with making rings from 1/2" Birch and some acrylic I had laying around.
> 
> This was a heat bend heat bend deal and the first one i was using adhesive but started using screws on the second for the sake of time.
> 
> ...


If this is as far as you've gotten on the doors, you'll have no mid bass.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

cobra93 said:


> Your last post has me a little confused.
> 
> Take a couple of quick pics of your drivers/enclosures, your problems could be obvious if you do.
> The impression I'm getting is that the sls are mounted to a baffle, but not enclosed at all, (no isolation between front and back).
> ...


Sorry, the first paragraph was refering to the W3's only. I have the SLS on the passengers side felted and the drives fell off and is resting on a towel under the ebrake (kick panel location). 

I'm actualy really happy with the SLS and was shocked of their output without an enclosure. I will get these in kick pods asap and scratch the door location I tried initialy.

Limbo is the perfect word to describe the project. I would make steadier progress but, like today, I had to come into work and look out my window, wondering what I could have accomplished today. :laugh: I have been patient with it all though because it really has provided time so I can truley get the feel for the drivers I bought and my setup limitations. One good thing was deciding the doors aren't such a good idea.

Thanks for all the help too. You have been amazing! I will get the pics up by tomorrow.


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

I wouldn't scratch the door idea just yet.
I'd do up a couple of test boxes, and compare the difference to different locations, door versus kick.
Make them, the boxes, as shallow as possible.

Then decide on location, aiming and crossover points.

It's no problem at all.
It's rare that I have had experience with someone else particular install, so I'm glad to try and help where I am able.
To bad we aren't closer, you could give mine a listen and tell me what you think.


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## cobra93 (Dec 22, 2009)

If you're planning on the kicks, keep this in mind. 
*They don't have to be on the floor.*

This is my `93 cobra, before I went the DIY route with drivers.
These aren't in the way of my feet or the dead pedal.
Out side of the E-brake on the ranger, you could attach them to the kick panel itself.

Just throwing potential options out there.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

cobra93 said:


> If you're planning on the kicks, keep this in mind.
> *They don't have to be on the floor.*
> 
> This is my `93 cobra, before I went the DIY route with drivers.
> ...


Looks good, I think the E-brake is going to limit my options but it may be possible with minor cutting (I'm not a big fan of chopping up the subframe). If I do go with the kicks, aperiodic membranes would be fun to play with. I will get some pictures in a few. The storm has kept me inside on my days off.


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## eltico7213 (Oct 26, 2011)

so... any success on the tweeterless build.? im contemplating on using 3" full range mid-tweets, or just sticking to normal tweets...


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

Nothing new yet. I have had a tough time deciding mid bass location and I'm going with the doors because I'm not concerned about the direction anymore.. I have been so busy lately and head to Florida this week. Progress will come soon though. I must finish before I go to Vegas next month!


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

OK so I found time to finish up and get the speaker rings set in the doors. I was having problems setting them and found a convenient method. Great Stuff Expanding Foam was fairly quick, extremely strong, and easy to manipulate if I wasn't happy with the result. Aside from the rings, I put two 6x33" strips of second skin on the outer door skin and chose spots on the inner skin. Also, I took half inch closed cell foam and placed it on select spots of the inner skin to help insulate. The big access hole and factory speaker holes were covered with wood and silicon to ensure a good seal. Over all, this helped my moral toward the project because i was really getting demoralized.

I began with a nice alcohol wipe to make sure the second skin had good adhesion. Drivers door all clean and ready to start getting messy.








Outer skin and vent covered.








Here's an example of the speakers new home.








The foam looks a little messy but this is just to position the rings for now. This stuff is STRONG!








Passengers door now.








Access holes all sealed up and ready for more treatment.








Working on the passenger side now.








Drivers door waiting on the closed cell foam but I didn't take a picture of it after.








Passengers covered up and ready to go.








Passengers ready to go as well.









That's it for now, I'm still chasing some small rattles and ran out of materials/time for the week.


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## Paul1217 (Aug 12, 2007)

As one Best Buy installer to another who uses a ton of Dynamat, why are you using Second skin over Dynamat? 

Just cursious for your opinion on that product since you should have a good amount of experience with Dynamat, too.


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

derek0606 said:


> Funny thing is i have heard of people running these things with 50-100 if crossed above 300-400.


I ran tweeterless in my Genesis Coupe with a set of W3's and a pair of Dayton RS180's. I had the W3's crossed at 315 and above on the front two channels of a JL HD 900/5. No problems. They held up great and get more than loud enough for me.

Then I sold my amp and ran them *full-range* on the factory Infinity amp (which probably still exceeds their power ratings) and as long as I didn't play real bass heavy music they worked fine. They did have quite a bit more bass than I'd have thought them capable. 

I still have them, and I plan to use them in my new car. I am also going to add the Vifa ring radiators I bought with them for a little more top end shimmer, I think. 

I'm considering replacing the RS180's with SLS 6's...

I found the W3's to be very capable, and held up well. 

Jay


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

Paul1217 said:


> As one Best Buy installer to another who uses a ton of Dynamat, why are you using Second skin over Dynamat?
> 
> Just cursious for your opinion on that product since you should have a good amount of experience with Dynamat, too.


No difference in product plus I had left over second skin from my BMW so why not? They all go on the same, messy!


JayinMI said:


> I ran tweeterless in my Genesis Coupe with a set of W3's and a pair of Dayton RS180's. I had the W3's crossed at 315 and above on the front two channels of a JL HD 900/5. No problems. They held up great and get more than loud enough for me.
> 
> Then I sold my amp and ran them *full-range* on the factory Infinity amp (which probably still exceeds their power ratings) and as long as I didn't play real bass heavy music they worked fine. They did have quite a bit more bass than I'd have thought them capable.
> 
> ...


I like the w3 as well but they do tend to get a little harsh for my ears at higher volumes. I need to get an eq setup to see if I can work it out. The sls and w3 as a pair sounds pretty good and like yourself, my crossover point was changed to 315hz because the sls seems to distort as cobra suggested. My main issue now is setting the gains properly and my brother misplaced a lead from my oscilloscopes when he setup his studio (sound engineer) and I will need to buy new ones. My stereo seems to be lacking volume and anything after 24 is an inaudible difference in volume; I'm afraid the head unit is just distorting after 24.

Anythiughts from anyone?


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## JayinMI (Oct 18, 2008)

When I researched tweeterless options, the W3's got good reviews, but a few people said that they ran tweeters (crossed over very high) just to help out so you didn't have to boost EQ for that little bit of sparkle.

I bought some Vifa RR's, that I've never used...but I think I will this time.

Jay


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

Yea I was trying to keep this system on a single amp because the truck is so small. However I am still considering it. A matching amp would be cool!


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## evangojason (Feb 12, 2010)

Looking forward to seeing some more progress.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

evangojason said:


> Looking forward to seeing some more progress.


Sorry, been a little busy and lazy lately.. its just f'ing hot out, really. I am even tossing the idea of buying a portable AC unit for the garage just to finish. I have all the supplies but sweat was dripping from my forearms the other day and it kind of freaked me out; it was a first for me lol

I have a few rattles to chase down in the doors and was entertaining using edge grip seal to couple the door card and panel together with no vibration.

Another little thing I did was set the gains for Max volume around 18-20 instead of 25+. The Alpine seems to distort more and I get much better sound this way. My crossover points and slopes have changes a little based around the linkwitz theory and a 3db gain from the slopes. The rta was showing a huge jump around 400 Hz and the Alpine eq could barely effect it.

All in all I am much happier with the settings. It was my first active setup so I had a bit of learning to do. I will try to not drag this on any further than it has and get the ball rolling soon.

Sub box and glassing the doors will be next. I am using the foam to shape the doors because my first attempt to stretch fleece over the doors was a terrible experience and the results were even worse. So foam, carve/sand, latex paint (or else the foam will dissolved from the resin), and fiberglass. The foam can always be dissolved with acetone later but I would rather keep it for more structural rigidy.


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

Started on the sub box but I haven't glassed the face on yet because I'm still deciding what I want to do. Since my last post, I got my hands on a SoundSplinter RL-i8. So I will lay out the options below and please offer me some help! I want the most output (efficiency) because i can always tune it down.

I have .86 ft^3 to play with before displacements. The base of the box is built and it stretches across the back "storage area" behind the seats leaving no storage area; I had to cut the bottom half of the factor rear speaker housing to do this. It looks like a long thin slant face box at 9.75" tall right now. So this brings many options.

2 Resonant Engineering 8's sitting behind either seat with the amp in the middle and seperate chambers. I could port but it will be cramped and I'm worried about the ports breathing. Another concern about porting, would 2" be to small for these woofers? If not, it would shorten my ports A LOT. Both would see 150W off the XS6600 each.

1 Sound Splinter RL-i8 @ 300W? I would slide the amp behind the passenger seat and mount the sub between the seats. This brings back the question if a 2" port area would be to small. I have used this port for a Type R 10 experimenting and it was awful. The box would be .566 ft^3 after port and sub displacement with a 3" port. I would have a small 2.25" Void all the way to the right of the box that I could dump the port into but I'm concerned if it won't allow the port to breath. Should I go sealed or will I be disappointed if I seal it?

Some pictures of my dreaded progress in the heat. First, the new woofer.... is a monster.








Found a small hole in the surround seam so I have everything to start with some maintenance... I like this dust cap/cone unpainted better too! Thanks TC Sounds, amazing people and I think they were more excited to revive this woofer than I was!









The base of the box until I figure out what I'm going to do!









Test fit, it fit!









The amp base, side walls and such will be added for a recessed look and hide the wires.









Destroyed my circle jig on accident so I had to go buy another.








In order to make this!









You people will type your finger tips off everywhere but not here? Comments PLEASE!


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

Ok so maybe people don't like reading on a forum anymore. I will make this easier. What are your thoughts on porting something this small?


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

Have you modeled the setup in WinISD? It's been a few years since I built ported enclosures and even then mine were for 12" subs but I would think you'd get some chuffing w/a 2" round port using a sub like that. Have you considered slot porting? Sorry if I missed it but what's your target tuning frequency for the sub?


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

niceguy said:


> Have you modeled the setup in WinISD? It's been a few years since I built ported enclosures and even then mine were for 12" subs but I would think you'd get some chuffing w/a 2" round port using a sub like that. Have you considered slot porting? Sorry if I missed it but what's your target tuning frequency for the sub?


I have modeled many different boxes in both WinISD and BassBox Pro. I'm more familiar with WinISD and just use BBP to skip messing with port displacements and length. My main concern is the port velocity at this point. Tuning will be 35hz. The only option for a slot is .5" x 9.75" and 17" long. The air velocity is showing 135 ft/sec!!! I wouldn't be worried if it was in a trunk but that seems really high. Airspace would be .604 which should give a slight kick and a smooth roll down; I can always EQ it down to my liking.


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

It's been more than 6 years since I've run ported setups but I do remember running them with velocities much higher than what WinISD suggested and it was fine, though it was in a van facing the rear. 

You could always seal the enclosure for now and see how you like the subs that way. If you're not satisfied, port it. I'm sure you're aware of this but what about fitting the largest progressive flare possible at the end of your port, even if you try the 2"? Worst case, if 2" doesn't work and you can't fit a 3" inside, find some creative/artistic way to route the plumbing outside the enclosure. However, with an external port stack at each end, it may end up looking like an 18 wheeler with dual smoke stacks lol...

You could always skip the glue process and just screw (and maybe add some thin weatherstrip to the surfaces) the baffle down until you decide what you like more, then go back and glue it when you're sure....


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

I am not a fan of sealed because of the lack of efficiency so I will probably never try it. However, I will give the ports a test; its the most logical thing to do at this point. Make a non fiberglass face and try the .5" slot first because I LOVE slot ports.

The progressive flare sounds fantastic too! Can I buy them or would I have to make this with some sort of mold + heat + pvc?

Thanks for the help and comments, keep them coming!


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## niceguy (Mar 12, 2006)

I like slot ports as well but I preferred the flexibility of round ports...what about one of these aero ports to try out? Some are even tunable (can be extended, shortened,etc)
Precision Port 2" Flared Port Tube Kit 268-348


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## derek0606 (Dec 1, 2010)

Well I made a test box last weekend to make sure a .5" port would sound decent and this sub amazed me!

I have had concerns about my amp and will send it out for repair soon. The RCA terminals are definately bad and a capacitor for the sub had a dome on top. I'm strongly convinced it has something to do with some of my dislikes about this project.

Anyways though I would document some of the backwards progress. Fiberglass will start after the amp is fixed and I still want to try a couple more locations for the w3's.


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