# Active Dipole build round 3...



## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Teaser for now...more to come.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Oh yes...


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

C90/XDP4000X being tested with my line arrays. Works like a charm and sounds incredible. 4000X is taking an optical input from a WD Live TV but will eventually be fed by a desktop computer.










Powering the mids/ribbons with the APA4300HX, bridged to each channel. These towers are so efficient, barely cracked 1w on the meter at deafening levels.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

More playing around, the RAAL 140-15D dipoles paired with AP Arians at 3.15khz cutoff is smooooooth. Comparing Sony CDX-C90/XDP-4000X and Clarion DRZ-9255 though the 4000X's limited filter settings make this difficult. Shiva MKII on a Bash 500S for lows, 160hz and down:


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Nice work station there. Looks like a fun place to build and test. I have yet to hear a speaker with the RAAL yet but they must be amazing. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Yeah if you ever get a chance to hear them, the RAALs are something that need to be heard to be believed. They are unlike anything I have ever experienced, even compared to other high end ribbons like the Aurum Cantus G1 in my arrays, Magnepans or even high end electrostatics. I have been researching a mid to pair them with and decided on a B&G Neo10 but a few people are trying to steer me towards Accuton saying the Neo cannot match the RAALs detail like an Accuton will...not looking forward to paying for those mids so the Arians will do (quite well!) for now.


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

I like the idea of Accutons. Do the sensitivities match between the two or do you have a lot of padding to do?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Sub'd


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

teldzc1 said:


> I like the idea of Accutons. Do the sensitivities match between the two or do you have a lot of padding to do?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


Pretty close, most of the 7" Accutons are within 1-2db of the RAAL.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Okay jump starting this project again, woohoo! Bought my dream mids on Sunday omgomgomg...










accuton® Carefully selected loudspeaker drivers.

I will be pairing them with my RAAL dipoles but in sealed 4.5L enclosure for best transient response. Now I need to save for my subwoofer arrays...

For now I will be powering the RAALs with Hypex UcD100OEM amps and the Accutons with Hypex UcD180 ST amps. Helix DSP for processing/DAC for now though I have a bag of nice crossover parts so I might experiment with passives.

Time to buy some birch!


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## mmiller (Mar 7, 2008)

Sub'd.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Woohoo!!!


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Rough sketch of the design I want to build. Baltic Birch stained rosewood:


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## JoshHefnerX (Jun 13, 2008)

Do dipoles get low or does the size of the baffle act like a high pass filter such that the back wave starts to nullify the front? Never heard them or read much on them.

Josh


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Architect7 said:


> More playing around, the RAAL 140-15D dipoles paired with AP Arians at 3.15khz cutoff is smooooooth. Comparing Sony CDX-C90/XDP-4000X and Clarion DRZ-9255 though the 4000X's limited filter settings make this difficult. Shiva MKII on a Bash 500S for lows, 160hz and down:


 Time spent organising is time wasted, good engineer workbench organised in the way that only owner would know where things are. :bowdown::rockon:


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

JoshHefnerX said:


> Do dipoles get low or does the size of the baffle act like a high pass filter such that the back wave starts to nullify the front? Never heard them or read much on them.
> 
> Josh


It takes a different type of woofer design to be successful down low. Low FS, QTS of around .7 and lots of excursion. The lower the QTC, the more excursion needed as you will need to eq to bring up the low low end. Baffle plays a big part which is why I am planning an H or W frame vs. flat baffle. Then the H/W frame acts as a way to keep the speaker from vibrating since the movement of the opposite woofers cancels each other out. It takes roughly 2x the woofers to attain the same output as an enclosed driver but when done right the bass is intoxicating and not like anything you have ever heard, truly amazing.



Victor_inox said:


> Time spent organising is time wasted, good engineer workbench organised in the way that only owner would know where things are. :bowdown::rockon:


EXACTLY! When I clean up, I lose stuff. So now I don't clean up LOL.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

I am in heaven right now...










WD Live TV
LG 47LN5900
Helix DSP
Pioneer VSX-D912S (7.1 ext in)
RAAL 140-15D Dipole 3179hz+ HPF 12db Butterworth
Accuton C173-6-090 150hz HPF Linkwitz 24db - 3179hz LPF 12db Butterworth
Rythmik 360w plate amp
Adire Tempest 15" 150hz LPF Linkwitz 24db


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## Jcharger13 (Jul 12, 2013)

Interesting idea of running through the Pioneer for amplifying. How are you doing this? Running the rear inputs for your tweets (or something similar) and have the processing from the avr turned off?

I wish I would've tried that when I built my speakers (trolls ekta-ish). I had to redo the woofer crossover cause of using a different woofer. It took a lot of sims & measurements until I was happy. I have a 360.3 here that I could've done the same as your setup to test how I wanted to do the crossovers. Could've made things a little easier. Didn't have the amps but didn't consider my avr (has 7.1 pre-inputs also)

I'd love to hear that speaker. It's has 3 things I haven't heard, dipole, raal tweet, & the accuton. Nice setup.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks! I sent mid channels C&D from the Helix to the Surround preamp inputs of the Pioneer and switched to 7.1 ext in. Tweeters are channels A&B on the Helix, sent to the Front inputs. This Pioneer has some weird anomalies such as 7.1 ext in can only be used with the DVD/LD input and only speakers A can be used with 7.1 ext in, not front speakers B. So that took a couple extra steps.

Possibly bad news, one of the Accutons has a REALLY weird resonance below 100hz...I am conducting more testing today to see if it is install or driver...if it is driver I know Accuton has a good support program. Stay tuned...


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## Jcharger13 (Jul 12, 2013)

Architect7 said:


> Rough sketch of the design I want to build. Baltic Birch stained rosewood:


That's a bummer about the accuton. Hopefully it's something stupid. 

Nice looking design sketch, it reminds me of Linkwitz's stuff a little bit but I like the look of your design better. Hopefully it'll turn out as good as his. He is a madman, I wish I knew 1/10 of what he knows about this stuff. What are you running for the lowend and how many woofers per speaker? Looks like 4 from your drawing.


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## 2010hummerguy (Oct 7, 2009)

Jcharger13 said:


> That's a bummer about the accuton. Hopefully it's something stupid.
> 
> Nice looking design sketch, it reminds me of Linkwitz's stuff a little bit but I like the look of your design better. Hopefully it'll turn out as good as his. He is a madman, I wish I knew 1/10 of what he knows about this stuff. What are you running for the lowend and how many woofers per speaker? Looks like 4 from your drawing.


Yes, the plan is 4 GR Research open baffle servo 12's per side powered by two GR Research HX800 amps. So 8 12's/1600wrms total...maybe more, I need to confirm the Hypex DS8.0 RMS rating at 2ohms.

Thanks for the kind words, I'm really excited about that design. I am no master wood worker so I am hoping to contract a good builder to get the sides and upper baffle right (everything else will probably be birch ply painted black). I'll probably see if Al is up for the task since he did such an amazing job with my center and arrays...and I need to schedule a trip up to see him soon anyway to upgrade my arrays to Wavecor mids 

Possibly good news, pretty sure the resonance issue is with the Pioneer's amp section and not the Accuton mid. Thank goodness...I was losing sleep over replacing a $900 mid. I was thinking it was the mid because the positive terminal was loose and I was afraid this was causing the tinsel to vibrate or cause vibration...but a little super glue coaxed it back to new and running the mids off of different channels seems to be working okay now. Not a big deal since it was an $80 receiver...I think the very nice learning remote is worth more than the receiver! I have a mint Denon AVR-5700 I will test in its place once I get more energy to change everything around...that Hawks loss definitely hit me hard, what a bizarre game


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