# High End Speaker design



## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

Well Im thinking about designing a super high end speaker.

I think these drivers are probably the best combo one can get...
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=173&products_id=786
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=148&products_id=926
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=148&products_id=1581

You get the wonderful tonal midrange for the scan mid range, the what most describe best top end made, the snappy bass the seas is know for. What do you guys think? Any other three way combos you'd recommend.

Sub will be Aura NS15 ported


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## ///Audience (Jan 31, 2007)

id always wanted to do somethin near identical to that setup...

Seas w22 8"
Revelator 5"
Focal Be tweet
Aura NS18

http://www.theautophile.com/products/Absolute2.3.html

^thad be another fun one to play with... looks like their own version of the revelator
im pretty sure Randy used those Genesis tweets in his car before it was wrecked.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

Have you thought about matching tonality and timbre or just getting the "best" driver in each particular category (well not "best" but you know what i mean )? FYI im an home audio noob just butting in


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## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

azngotskills said:


> Have you thought about matching tonality and timbre


no...want to elaborate...



hmm maybe...

hiq OWIIfs (which I have)
scan 15w 
Jl 8w7

or 

Scan ring rev
Scan 15w
Scan 23w

hmm


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## MiniVanMan (Jun 28, 2005)

He's actually on to something. Just because drivers are in the top of their class, doesn't mean they're always compatible. Metal coned midbasses, and paper coned midranges could be difficult to match timbrewise. 

Timbre is basically a distinction in the sound of the same frequency coming from different sources. A Fender Strat playing 800 hz sounds much different than a Gibson Les Paul playing 800 hz. Same frequency, but different timbre. 

So, it's not always as easy as just picking something expensive and slapping them together. With speakers, cone material has a lot to do with how they'll sound together.


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

^^^Thanks  Thats basically what i meant but he sounded more intellegent LOL. I would look into premade designs or variations of one with drivers like that, unless you or a friend of yours is going to make a passive particular to those drivers or going active. Im new to DIY home audio, but there is much more to it than picking the best drivers you can buy and picking xover points IMO.


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## iyamwutiam (Nov 20, 2006)

Mini Van is THE man!!
I agree totally- because it was so well explained and of course makes so much sense.

Anywaaaay- my ideal speaker would be the JOrdan JX52/or 50mm modules with the Utopia/s 5wses. That being said the best 'little' speaker I hae heard were the Chartwells- amazing speaker for something thats only like 10 inches high, 6 inches across and maybe 8 inches deep. I had NO idea who or what they were - till I did some research on BBC mini-monitors and Rogers. 

To this day - (almost 40 years later!!) they go for like 1K USED!!

They are very accurate speakers and I dunno there is 'something' about them. And I guess that someting is what Minivan was saying.

BTW - his sig is food for thought 
I know I am NOT an audiophile


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## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

Well I will have a passive xover designed on LEAP, so that should come out decently. Right now I have a pair of Scan 15w revs and Hiqophon OWIIFS sitting around. The Hiq and Scan 15w should match up well, but it wouldn't kill me to get the Ring Rev, either tweeter will work well.

So what mid bass do you guys think I should use to match up with those drivers?

Look more towards something like the Scan 23w the 9" rev woofer?


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## SQ_Bronco (Jul 31, 2005)

I love the 15W. You can easily cross it at 3.5k+, and as was already mentioned that makes it a perfect match for the hiq tweeter that costs much less than the scan tweeter. I'd also be tempted to try the dayton RS270 before I spent $700 on the seas woofers. I haven't seen any tests with them but I bought a pair when they first came out and they sound great imho. Use the savings to buy another NS15  [or upgrade to an NS18].

FYI the scan is a BIG 5", closer to 6" across, but if you're going to go with a 10" midbass and keep the rev tweeter, which can be crossed very low, I'd actually use a 7" woofer for the additional dynamic range.


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

You could also go with with the Vifa Xt tweeter over the ring rev and put the extra $600 into the cabinets and crossovers.


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## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

NaamanF said:


> You could also go with with the Vifa Xt tweeter over the ring rev and put the extra $600 into the cabinets and crossovers.



That makes a lot of sense...hmm

Ill stick w/ the HIQ OWII and Scan 15w but what mid woofer should I add to it?


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## SQdude (Mar 29, 2007)

bdubs767 said:


> Well I will have a passive xover designed on LEAP, so that should come out decently.


If you plan on having Madisound design the XO with LEAP please realize that they do not use driver measurements taken from the baffle you will be using, which will make a BIG difference. Hence the XO will not be optimal for your application. There will also be phase issues due to the fact the acoustic centers of the tweeter and mid do not align. I would hate for you to spend that kind of money on drivers to get mediocre results.


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## thadman (Mar 1, 2006)

bdubs767 said:


> Well I will have a passive xover designed on LEAP, so that should come out decently. Right now I have a pair of Scan 15w revs and Hiqophon OWIIFS sitting around. The Hiq and Scan 15w should match up well, but it wouldn't kill me to get the Ring Rev, either tweeter will work well.
> 
> So what mid bass do you guys think I should use to match up with those drivers?
> 
> Look more towards something like the Scan 23w the 9" rev woofer?


To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure the advantages (if any obvious) outweigh the disadvantages of a ring radiator. They are very directive which will guarantee you almost no top end reverberant energy That Hiq is a very nice tweeter, but if you want THE best (and you'll be paying for it) I'd recommend the 6600.

The 23W is a very low distortion subwoofer, midbass, and lower midrange. The best subwoofer Scan Speak currently makes, if that says anything.


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## thadman (Mar 1, 2006)

Also, throwing together the best drivers available does not guarantee success or even a good speaker. I'd suggest outlining your goals first (room placement, extension, SPL, etc), finding a concept (dipole, omni, partially directive monopole, line array, etc) that enables those goals, and then finding drivers that align with that concept.

for example, have you put much thought into how are you going to treat the back wave (for the midrange this is very important)?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

thadman said:


> Also, throwing together the best drivers available does not guarantee success or even a good speaker. I'd suggest outlining your goals first (room placement, extension, SPL, etc), finding a concept (dipole, omni, partially directive monopole, line array, etc) that enables those goals, and then finding drivers that align with that concept.
> 
> for example, have you put much thought into how are you going to treat the back wave (for the midrange this is very important)?


excellent post !!  

"The can of worms"


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## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

well I do have one loudspeaker done already. Scan 6600 and Scan 18s that I was planning to sell as a whole in favor of a three way...


Now Im starting to think maybe I should break it up and do this.

Scan Speak 6600
Scan Speak 15w
Scan Speak 23w

As for leap I know a very knowledgable guy locally and I will be sending him my enclosures to take measurements and design the passive via that way.


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## Tommythecat (Apr 6, 2006)

bdubs767 said:


> well I do have one loudspeaker done already.


That's probably one more than Thadman's done. Dont worry about what he says


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## NaamanF (Jan 18, 2006)

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ektagrande.htm

Might have a look at that. Design is already done. You can even buy a kit for the crossover.


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## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

Well heres the drivers I have right now to play with....
Scan Speak 6600
Scan Speak 15w rev
Scan Speak 18s Rev (it was the shielded one)

If I could find another 18s Rev I could do a MTM design. All I would have to do is have the passive I have alreayd, tweaked a little bit.

So who has a Scan Speak 18s Rev 

I decided today to use the Hiq w/ my Nextels 6.5" in the car. I finally in a last attempt, got the mid bass region fixed


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## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

Just chatted w/ my man who will help me design the xover...


He told me that the best bet would be to shoot for a MTM design w/ (2) 18s revs and the 6600 or a TMW w/ 6600, 15w, and a 10" woofer design.

Makes sense though as both sets would be able to cover 50hz to 20khz w/o a problem. I am thinking that the 3-way may give me some better dynamics too...

Any here input guys    which would you shoot for?

O the rest of my set up...

Source: Mac laptop to M-audio Solo, Xbox360, eventually blu ray player
Pre amp: Denon 2308ci
Amp: Audiosource amp seven t for now 250x2 @ 8ohms
Sub amp: Bash 500
Sub: Aura NS15 ported, plays flat to if I remember right almost 20hz.
surround, rear, center: Will add on to the system over time.


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## bdubs767 (Apr 4, 2006)

nm...

Why not just use the drivers I have in a three way...

6600 
15w rev
18s rev


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