# Zapco Customer Service = HORRIBLE



## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

Mods....didnt quite know where to put this. If you need to move it to another section please do. Thanks


I just wanted to inform everyone of the experience that I recently had with Zapco. About a year ago I purchased from an authorized dealer a DC1000.4 and a DC360.4. Over the past couple months I have had an issue where when I would turn my truck on an extremely loud horn/static type noise would come through the speakers. Well the 4th time this happened it blew my HAT L1 Pro SE tweeters. I contacted Zapco and spoke to a gentleman who said that Zapco was aware of this happening and that they were just able to duplicate the problem on the bench about a month and a half ago. The problem was that a part of the amp would start before the rest of it and it would emit that extremely loud horn/static noise. So right there they admitted that it was 100% the amplifiers fault and that there was a problem with it. The amps were taken out by my dealer and shipped out to them to be fixed. Well when my dealer spoke with them they said that they had a bill for me for the modifications that were done to the amps. HAHA yes, they wanted to charge me for their screw up on their amps that blew my tweeters!!! My dealer talked with them and they finally agreed to not charge me. Then comes the second part, where they completely denied paying for a new set of tweeters. Even though they already admitted that the flaw in their amplifier is exactly what blew my tweeters. I wanted to share this with everyone due to the fact that I am completely in Awe that a company of this caliber would not stand behind their equipment and make things right for a customer. I know that I personally will never deal with this company again and wanted everyone else to know in case they were considering purchasing Zapco products.

Thanks,
Josh



*UPDATE*

So i recently just got off of the phone with Shelly from Zapco. Wow, extremely rude and not wanting any part of helping me. She denied that it was even the amplifiers fault. She said it could of been anything in the stereo that did it. She said "what do you want, what do you want from me?" I told her all I wanted was my tweeters replaced. I asked her if that was unfair from her viewpoint. Finally after 15 min on the phone she said all she could do was ship me out a pair of their tweeters, model number "KT6.25" ?? I of course know nothing about them. I figured something was better then nothing, and I knew she was def not replacing the hybrids. She said she found hybrids on ebay for $150 and a whole three way set for $600. LOL. She was uneducated on car stereo equipment (including Zapco), rude, unhelpful, and could absolutely careless about the customer. Everything with her was like pulling teeth. Im certain that this company will be out of business in a very short time if this type of business keeps up. I'm so disgusted with how they run their operation. A once awesome company going right down the drain.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

WOW!...That is quite disappointing to hear.:surprised:


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

I agree, and now I have to purchase new tweeters as well.


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## sqcomp (Sep 21, 2009)

Did you talk to Scott about a possible "B stock" purchase of some new tweeters?


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## trumpet (Nov 14, 2010)

That's really disappointing to hear from a reputable manufacturer. We're in the age of long term customer relationships and buying you a new pair of tweeters is par for the course if they want your money again.

Why should JoshT have to settle for B stock parts when it's Zapco's fault his tweeters blew? The next thing to consider is the dealer paying for his new tweeters if Zapco won't pay up.


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## Angrywhopper (Jan 20, 2010)

Don't the tweeters have a warranty?


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

Not surprised bout this since my my 360.4 did the same exactly thing to me L6SEs -
On a side note I just had the ****ONE do the same exact thing to my my L3SE and L1V2 - I emailed Audioson I got a email back from Larry Penn wanting to help my situation. Unless he's sending me a certified cheque for the damages done by his "Award Winning Processor" - what can you honestly do for me PAL!!

I've heard thru the grape vine the the DSP procoesses in the DC/DSP6 and SH!TONE is from the same 3rd party company. Can anyone confirm this?


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

The thing is though, its not Hybrids fault or my dealers fault. It wasn't a manufacturer defect of the speaker. The exact cause of the blowing of the speaker is because of the error in Zapco's amp. Which they've already admitted to. My dealer has been great through all of this and is doing all he can to take care of me.


Avidedtr: I would assume that they are. When I spoke to the Zapco tech (who was cool) he told me that what happens is that a part of the processing in the amp starts up prior to the rest of the amp, causing this noise. I said "do you guys just fix the programming when i send it in?" and he said that they have no way to rewrite the programming. This leads me to believe that it is outsourced...just like bitone. But anyway, Zapco's fix is to solder a chip in the amplifier so that if this happens again the chip makes the amp go into protect which resets the amp instead of allowing it to emit that infamous noise that blows speakers.


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## AVIDEDTR (Sep 11, 2008)

Angrywhopper said:


> Don't the tweeters have a warranty?


Warranty only covers manufacturing defects not user(zapco) damages.


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## Audio Options (Aug 28, 2008)

you are never going to get a manu to pay for damage to another companies product... never going to happen dont waste your time.


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

Audio Options said:


> you are never going to get a manu to pay for damage to another companies product... never going to happen dont waste your time.


Not necessarily true..Same thing happen when Bikinipunk's tweeters were blown by a bitone. if i remember correctly, Audison sent him their highest priced tweeter available as a replacement.


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## SQ Audi (Dec 21, 2010)

nepl29 said:


> Not necessarily true..Same thing happen when Bikinipunk's tweeters were blown by a bitone. if i remember correctly, Audison sent him their highest priced tweeter available as a replacement.


And that Highest Priced Tweeter only cost them a fraction to build than what it would have cost them to replace the actual tweeters.

They didn't do him any justice on that deal. Company write off on the tweeters, and didn't have to shell out any coin either.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

That is disappointing to hear brother. I have ONLY dealt with Mike (tech) and he is pretty cool and super fast and accurate with answers. Sorry to hear about your mess.


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

SQ Stang said:


> And that Highest Priced Tweeter only cost them a fraction to build than what it would have cost them to replace the actual tweeters.
> 
> They didn't do him any justice on that deal. Company write off on the tweeters, and didn't have to shell out any coin either.


At least he got something. He had to option of selling it upon arrival and buy whatever he wanted to to replaced his blown tweeters. I'm pretty sure he was sastified that he got something for his troubles.


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## KP (Nov 13, 2005)

Not defending anyone but... "Well the 4th time this happened it blew my HAT L1 Pro SE tweeters" Why didn't you do something about the amp defect before it finally toasted the tweet? If it had not blown the tweet would the amp/tweet still be in the vehicle?


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Talk to a lawyer....see what kind of legal rights you might have


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Really? A lawyer over a set of tweeters?


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

This problem has been happening for years now. I heard there was a fix but if you go on the Zapco forum there is someone who had the same problem, sent them off to get fixed, and again the loud Buzz came back. 

By admiting fault I would assume you are liable for damages but only during warranty period. I think it is 3 years if installed by dealer. Since this is a common problem, I would think they would good will amps even after the warranty expires. From what I have heard it is only 4 channel amps that do it.


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## go!tc (May 15, 2010)

Zapco is usually very good when it comes to customer service, must be the new changes in the company.


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

Don't get me wrong. I am a total Zapco fan but if the amps were still under warranty then they should replace the tweeter. I am sure they know someone in the industry who would give them a deal on one.

I heard Bob and Robert are no longer with Zapco and there might be some changes in the near future. If you go to their website they have a banner saying they have "some very cool news in the very near future". It has been there for over a month.

They dropped the C2K 6.0 and the 3.0. Selling amps for a discount online. What happened to the Class A amp? And they use to have an active forum. 

Maybe a Zapco Dealer can pipe in and shed some light on what is happening.

If there is a fix for the Loud Buzz then I need to send one in to be fixed. The one in my wifes car had been doing it for a couple years now. It happens about 2 times a year.


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

Audio Options said:


> you are never going to get a manu to pay for damage to another companies product... never going to happen dont waste your time.


not quite true. when i had a Quaife ATB installed in my car a long time ago, it turned out that one of the seals was manufactured incorrectly. Quaife sent me a new ATB, paid for shipping both ways, AND sent me a check for all labor costs, including uninstall and reinstall. top notch companies CAN deliver top notch service. you should expect nothing less, and when they fall short, let them and the interested community know!! Quaife ROCKS!!!!!!


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

AcuraTLSQ said:


> Not defending anyone but... "Well the 4th time this happened it blew my HAT L1 Pro SE tweeters" Why didn't you do something about the amp defect before it finally toasted the tweet? If it had not blown the tweet would the amp/tweet still be in the vehicle?



In my defense, the first time this "noise" happened was a long time ago. I had no idea and it didn't happen again for a few months after that. Then once again a couple months after that. After the second time I wondered what it was. How was I supposed to know it was the amp? Why not the headunit or processor or ipod, etc?? After the third time I googled it and found someone else have the same issue. Before I could take the truck up to have the equipment taken out it happend again and this time blowing my tweeters. FYI my amp is still under the 3 year warranty.


Mrmoto: There is a fix for this. If you read my earlier post I had stated that they were just able to reproduce this problem about 2 months ago on their own. They solder a chip in that sends the amp into protect mode and restarts it instead of sending out that really loud noise. You are correct too, Bob and Robert both got fired is what I have heard. There is some new management....might explain the new non sense that is going on there.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Really? A lawyer over a set of tweeters?



If you don't know what direction to go in a lawyers advice and or opinion can be golden.....different states have different bylaws over stuff like this, believe it or not...

That's why most companies have disclaimers when you buy and use their products....Look what happened to JL Audio awhile back


It's called consumer protection


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Sounds like Zapco is only standing on one leg right now


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

JoshT said:


> You are correct too, Bob and Robert both got fired is what I have heard. There is some new management....might explain the new non sense that is going on there.


I wonder what happened. Both were always very helpful.

Do you recall how much they wanted to fix your amps? My amp is second hand and past any warranty.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Wouldn't getting a lawyer cost more money than just buying new tweeters?




trojan fan said:


> If you don't know what direction to go in a lawyers advice and or opinion can be golden.....different states have different bylaws over stuff like this, believe it or not...
> 
> That's why most companies have disclaimers when you buy and use their products....Look what happened to JL Audio awhile back
> 
> ...


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Robert and Bob got canned before CES this year.

The C2K amps are all going away from what I was told. What they are selling is what they have in stock.

The class A amp was being done by Matt Roberts and his buddy Mark for Zapco. After what happened with Robert and Bob, Matt decided to stop doing the amps for Zapco.




MrMoto said:


> Don't get me wrong. I am a total Zapco fan but if the amps were still under warranty then they should replace the tweeter. I am sure they know someone in the industry who would give them a deal on one.
> 
> I heard Bob and Robert are no longer with Zapco and there might be some changes in the near future. If you go to their website they have a banner saying they have "some very cool news in the very near future". It has been there for over a month.
> 
> ...


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## go!tc (May 15, 2010)

After thinking about it, they should get you a new set. If they don't then they should at least give you something from the company to make up for the **** up they knew about.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

I'd call them up and state:

Hi, May I have the highest person available that might be able to solve an issue? 

Hi, you repaired my amp serial number _______________. I understand you found an issue in your design that could lead to failure of other components in a system. I bought this amp from an authorized dealer. They installed it. This Item caused my xyz part to fail. Cost for xyz part is. When can I expect a check? 

Oh, your not going to cover it? are you familiar with the "magnus and moss warranty act of 1975?"

Even though the warranty might state that they are not liable for uninstall and other such stuff I'm pretty sure depending on your state you could get them for implied warranty. 

I would then consider directing them to this thread and ask that a quick resolution in the best interest of both parties might be achieved. 

Post up a copy of the warranty on your product so we might have a look...


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

looky what almost went in the garbage today!


did you fill out the warranty info in the box? Bottom line is they should take care of the issue. If they knew they had an issue and sat on it then that shows negligence. They should have notified the dealers or maybe even sent something out to the customers that could have had issues... but that would make them look bad.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

They will def be getting a call from me today. Yesterday they spoke only with my dealer. So i will give it a try today. I will do pretty much what you had just said.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> Wouldn't getting a lawyer cost more money than just buying new tweeters?


Prbly not. We are talking HAT tweeters here.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

turbo5upra said:


> I'd call them up and state:
> 
> Hi, May I have the highest person available that might be able to solve an issue?
> 
> ...





thehatedguy said:


> Wouldn't getting a lawyer cost more money than just buying new tweeters?





turbo5upra said:


> looky what almost went in the garbage today!
> 
> 
> did you fill out the warranty info in the box? Bottom line is they should take care of the issue. If they knew they had an issue and sat on it then that shows negligence. They should have notified the dealers or maybe even sent something out to the customers that could have had issues... but that would make them look bad.



x2...exactly.....Turbosupra you just played the part of the lawyer, well said, and now he has some direction to go in


The point is you don't have to hire a lawyer, but 5 minutes of his opinion and advice can go a long ways


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

*UPDATE*

So i recently just got off of the phone with Shelly from Zapco. Wow, extremely rude and not wanting any part of helping me. She denied that it was even the amplifiers fault. She said it could of been anything in the stereo that did it. She said "what do you want, what do you want from me?" I told her all I wanted was my tweeters replaced. I asked her if that was unfair from her viewpoint. Finally after 15 min on the phone she said all she could do was ship me out a pair of their tweeters, model number "KT6.25" ?? I of course know nothing about them. I figured something was better then nothing, and I knew she was def not replacing the hybrids. She said she found hybrids on ebay for $150 and a whole three way set for $600. LOL. She was uneducated on car stereo equipment (including Zapco), rude, unhelpful, and could absolutely careless about the customer. Everything with her was like pulling teeth. Im certain that this company will be out of business in a very short time if this type of business keeps up. I'm so disgusted with how they run their operation. A once awesome company going right down the drain.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

was she the highest person they could find you?


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

ahh not 600 bin... 660 with 36 hours left.

Hybrid Audio Legatia SE 3-way Component set | eBay


or with 4 days.....

Hybrid Audio - Legatia Pro L1 Set | eBay


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

turbo5upra said:


> was she the highest person they could find you?


Shelly replaced Bob and Robert. She is the one in charge now, so cannot get any hire than that.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

Yeah, she was it unfortunately . She was so uneducated on car audio equipment that it was almost difficult to talk to her about the situation.


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## Genxx (Mar 18, 2007)

She knows nothing about technical stuff at all. She refers to her tech. guys so if she has not spoken to them about your situation she would have no clue what you are even taking about.

She is more of a company runner than a car audio enthusiast.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

ehh... maybe we can school her in economics... since car audio may not be her strong suit.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Genxx said:


> She knows nothing about technical stuff at all. She refers to her tech. guys so if she has not spoken to them about your situation she would have no clue what you are even taking about.
> 
> She is more of a company runner than a car audio enthusiast.


says the guy with 2 of the brands mentioned


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks for this. I was already pissed at them for treating us like little kids with their dsp software lockout ********. Another reason to stay away.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

Apparently the tweeters they are sending me are a decent set based on research i've just done. The KT 6.25 is a 1.1" reference tweeter which is made my a company called ESB out of Italy.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

My old lady just sold a original set of esb's they were the best part of the set....


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

What I would do is get your thoughts out in an email. Send msrp of the hybrids... Any threads that have to do with zapcos admitting fault and send it to them. Then they may play ball.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

JoshT said:


> Apparently the tweeters they are sending me are a decent set based on research i've just done. The KT 6.25 is a 1.1" reference tweeter which is made my a company called ESB out of Italy.


Great! They will smell like BO and have hairy armpits. Congrats. :laugh:


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

turbo5upra said:


> What I would do is get your thoughts out in an email. Send msrp of the hybrids... Any threads that have to do with zapcos admitting fault and send it to them. Then they may play ball.


They would prbly laugh at the MSRP.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

People should laugh at the 1200.00$ msrp of the first series esb. 


U should talk about hair. Lol


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

My plan is to sell the ESB's when I get them and put the money towards another set of the L1 Pro R2's. Trust me, after speaking to this lady I am even surprised I got these out of her.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

Have you thought of putting any protection on that tweeter? Having a tweet hooked up directly is always somewhat risky.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

AWC said:


> Have you thought of putting any protection on that tweeter? Having a tweet hooked up directly is always somewhat risky.


I don't think putting a trojan over it is going to help.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

BowDown said:


> I don't think putting a trojan over it is going to help.


Lol. Just a high pass capacitor. That's what Andy W. says about every active install. Make sure you have the tweeter protected from any full range pulse by keeping the tweeter high passed at a point a little lower than the actual values used.


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## cleansoundz (May 14, 2008)

In my mind customer service is part of any product that I buy. I am sorry for your experiences.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

It's always good to put a cap on the tweeter to protect it.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> It's always good to put a cap on the tweeter to protect it.


Look at that...I was right. WTF is going on in this world? 

Hey J. I got your itrader on my to-do, I won't let you down.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Shelly was cool with me and I had nothing but positive experience dealing with zapco but I fully understand your frustration. 

Those tweeters are actually excellent as I sold a bunch of them on here and have them in my car now. Same tweeters they use in the ESB ref and ck set. ( ESB is another company that they stopped working with to save costs) ANyway, its a very well regarded tweeter internationally.

..: ESB :..

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...3371-fs-rare-esb-zapco-speakers-imported.html

The mrsp on these were like $600 too

Id say give them a shot. Zapco didnt have anything to do with them but put their name on it.


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

Is it normal practice to use a cap on the tweeter for an active setup. If so mine do not and were installed by the dealer. So the question would be is it Zapco's problem or the dealer. 

Were the speakers purchased new and installed by the dealer? If so the dealer should be able to cover it under warranty from the speaker co.

If you were my customer I would jump through the hoops take care of you. I am not defending Zapco just trying to reason their decision and why the dealer is not backing the product they sold you. Let the dealer deal with Zapco. He has more pull than you will ever have. 

I wonder if Zapco reads these forums. The longer this thread goes the more damage it does to the company. Maybe someone or myself should send an email to Zapco with a link to this post. 

Josh you got the shaft unless there is more to the story than what we have been told.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Well said...


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

As far as I know, it is not common practice to wire a cap inline with a tweeter. Great idea for protect but not necessary or required.

As far as the blown tweeter, I do not believe Zapco is technically responsible for its replacement. Granted the popping issue probably caused its failure but hard for you to prove that is exactly what caused it to Zapco. How do they know you didnt HP too low, overpower it, wire it incorrectly, etc. **** happens and Zapco should cover their own products, it would be nice for them to help you out but definitely not expected/required IMO

I do believe your installer/dealer should help in every way especially if he has been involved through the purchase, install, troubleshooting, etc


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Is it normal practice, or is it good practice? Probably not the first, but definitely the second. I'd say shoot for something around 1/2 of the xo point to make sure you are far enough away.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

azngotskills said:


> As far as the blown tweeter, I do not believe Zapco is technically responsible for its replacement. Granted the popping issue probably caused its failure but hard for you to prove that is exactly what caused it to Zapco. How do they know you didnt HP too low, overpower it, wire it incorrectly, etc. **** happens and Zapco should cover their own products, it would be nice for them to help you out but definitely not expected/required IMO


Thats a valid point. User error with the dc series by people who dont know what theyre doing probably caused many blown tweeters. Luckily my amp doesnt have this issue but I would be content if they repaired the amp for free and covered all costs. And I would want the dealer to be handeling it for me. Otherwise, why use authorized dealers? The fact zapco threw in some high end tweeters is actually pretty generous. Pioneer wouldnt do that. 

No doubt the process you went through sucks but at least the results aren't that bad.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

MrMoto said:


> Is it normal practice to use a cap on the tweeter for an active setup. If so mine do not and were installed by the dealer. So the question would be is it Zapco's problem or the dealer.
> 
> Were the speakers purchased new and installed by the dealer? If so the dealer should be able to cover it under warranty from the speaker co.
> 
> ...


The dealer and the speaker company have nothing to do with it. They did nothing wrong, it wasn't a manufactures defect. And the dealer didnt sell me a bad product. Zapco has already seen the exact thread i posted on caraudio.com.

Could I be making the whole thing up to try and get new tweeters? Sure. But really, anybody could lie about anything. They know about this problem, its exactly why they have a fix for it. And in addition there are other people that have had the EXACT same noise happen in which their speakers blew too.

I had everything installed professionally. And you hope you dont have this issue. Its not something that happens every other day. It happens randomly. Ive had everything installed for almost a year now and its only happened a total of 4 times. They better cover it for free, thats why I bought from an authorized dealer and had it installed by one. That should be expected when you purchase something, you shouldnt have to feel lucky they fixed their faulty product.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-sq-forum-technical-advanced/72364-loud-buzz.html


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

everyone that bought a toyota with a "sticky gas pedal" should be happy they fixed the car for them... oh and anyone that totaled a car shouldn't get any help from them... 

well imo they should be beaten.... just throw in in N and watch the motor blow. (but that's another story.)

we screwed up, it cost you money... have a nice day. yeah that's a good way to get someone back in the door. 

Get the lifetime value from Scott and tell Zapco that's what will make this right.

Zapco... take care of this guy or it will cost a bit more than a set of tweeters in the long run.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

tyroneshoes said:


> Thats a valid point. User error with the dc series by people who dont know what theyre doing probably caused many blown tweeters. Luckily my amp doesnt have this issue but I would be content if they repaired the amp for free and covered all costs. And I would want the dealer to be handeling it for me. Otherwise, why use authorized dealers? The fact zapco threw in some high end tweeters is actually pretty generous. Pioneer wouldnt do that.
> 
> No doubt the process you went through sucks but at least the results aren't that bad.


I resist all of my tweets, but tyroneshoes is right. These amps are super sensitive and can be harmful if tuned poorly.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

oh and zapco... fix your website.... it's the only reason I don't own any dc stuff and I'm kind glad I went with the other zeff products... they seem to give a crap and have a helpful website.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

splaudiohz said:


> I resist all of my tweets, but tyroneshoes is right. These amps are super sensitive and can be harmful if tuned poorly.


The amps were tuned professionally. I've had these in my Truck for almost a year now and this has only randomly happened 4 times. It didnt happen the first 6 months and then just randomly the last 4-5 months.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

JoshT said:


> The amps were tuned professionally. I've had these in my Truck for almost a year now and this has only randomly happened 4 times. It didnt happen the first 6 months and then just randomly the last 4-5 months.


Now I am getting worried. I would be suuuuper pissed (like you) if something went out via my amp.


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## lithoman (Jul 21, 2011)

every company has to cta..note this...

Hybrid Audio Technologies is not liable for any special incidental or consequential damages,
including, but not limited to, personal injury, property damage, damage to or loss of
equipment, lost of profits or revenue, costs of renting or buying replacements and/or any
other additional expenses, *even if Hybrid Audio Technologies has been informed* of the
prospect of such damages. Any express warranty not provided herein, and any remedy which
other than the warranty contained herein might arise by inference or operation of law, is
hereby excluded and disclaimed including the implied warranties of merchantability and of the
fitness for a particular purpose.


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## upperguy (Jul 31, 2009)

Regarding the lawyer, generally the legal fees are included if you win. I don't think you have much option after accepting the new tweeters(not that it sounds like you're pursuing it.) 

I absolutely encourage putting a cap on tweeters for active installs, not that my voice holds any weight with people on this forum yet It's a dollar worth of protection that would have saved your tweeters in this instance. I've got a pair sitting on my desk for my active install I'm doing this weekend.

Have you tried giving HAT a call and seeing if they can do anything for you? I don't mean trying to trick them into warrantying them, but maybe they will give you a discount on a replacement set if you explain the situation. Otherwise, it seems like a few people like those tweeters, it may be worth giving them a shot.

Good luck on getting everything resolved though!


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

I still think it is the dealer who should step up and fight for your money back. 

I go to the dealer so if I have a problem he takes care of it. Otherwise I might as well buy the low internet price and take my chances which is what happen in your case but you paid retail or close and paid to have it installed. 

Why buy from this dealer if he doesn't honor the factory warranty? I say get the dealer to call Hybrid tech and tell them the story. Get them to donate the tweeter for good will warranty. If not get one for a reduced cost. A goodwill warranty will only cost them an extremely happy customer and impress everyone on this forum and others on what a great company they are. If it cost a little to the dealer then call Zapco and if they won't spend the reduced dealer cost on 1 tweeter then they should drop the line. 1 tweeter cost the dealer a satisfied customer. Who will tell all his friends the outstanding service he got. You can't buy better advertising for a cheaper price.

You should not have to work so hard to get your stereo fixed.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Dealer should Absolutely be handling this for you. There is no reason why you should be making any calls. Most of my other concerns have already been addressed here that I posted on ca.com

I still can't get over the ' this happened 4 times prior to blowing my tweeter'. Not knowing it was the amp is not Your problem, however ... ignorance is bliss. You have A problem you go back to the dealer with your concern. You ignored it not once, not twice, not even three times (supposed to be a charm), but finally the fourth when it actually caused some damage. What if your tweeter didn't blow this time ? Would it have been 5, 6 ,7 more times ? Random or often THIS is why you pay a dealer. A problem, large or small, should always be addressed with your dealer.

As for the claims that one manufacturer will not give warranty or some sort of replacement for a problem caused by another manufacturers 'defect'. Sorry, not correct. I have personally done this several times with Rainbow because, well, people have accidents. Dynaudio has stepped up and done the same more than once both of us fully knowing the problem was not a defect in the speaker.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

MrMoto said:


> I still think it is the dealer who should step up and fight for your money back.
> 
> I go to the dealer so if I have a problem he takes care of it. Otherwise I might as well buy the low internet price and take my chances which is what happen in your case but you paid retail or close and paid to have it installed.
> 
> ...



While I agree mostly, you should Not have to 'bribe' said manufacturer with promises of good advertising. If you feel good about the situation and want to, that's great, go for it. However no one should have to promise such things or ever feel compelled to do so.


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

6spdcoupe said:


> I still can't get over the ' this happened 4 times prior to blowing my tweeter'. Not knowing it was the amp is not Your problem, however ... ignorance is bliss. You have A problem you go back to the dealer with your concern. You ignored it not once, not twice, not even three times (supposed to be a charm), but finally the fourth when it actually caused some damage. What if your tweeter didn't blow this time ? Would it have been 5, 6 ,7 more times ? Random or often THIS is why you pay a dealer. A problem, large or small, should always be addressed with your dealer.


I can say it took the 3rd time before I did some research online then called my dealer. This was about a year ago and he said there was a fix but about a month later I saw a post on a forum(I think Zapco's) that said the fix did not work. 

This is in my wifes car runing passive so I did not think it was a big deal to fix right away. As soon as you turn it on you know there is a problem and shut it right back off. It is so rare it only happen a couple times a year.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

Yes, after the third time time I did contact Zapco and my dealer. Understood there was a flaw with the amp and made an appointment to have my amps taken out. In the time between getting up to my appointment it happened again but this time at a point where I couldn't shut my truck off super quick. The longer length of the noise finally popped them.


After talking with Shelly, you would understand that there was absolutely NO WAY she was getting me a new set of Hybrids. It was a miracle that she's even sending me some of their own. My dealer did call. I also wanted to call Bc I couldn't understand why they didn't want to help out their customer. My dealer has done all he can and I have been pleased with all of his work and the way he has handled everything up to this point. It's pretty much a dead issue now. I will sell the Zapco tweeters when they get here and put the money towards the purchase of another Hybrid set.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

JoshT said:


> Yes, after the third time time I did contact Zapco and my dealer. Understood there was a flaw with the amp and made an appointment to have my amps taken out. In the time between getting up to my appointment it happened again but this time at a point where I couldn't shut my truck off super quick. The longer length of the noise finally popped them.
> 
> 
> After talking with Shelly, you would understand that there was absolutely NO WAY she was getting me a new set of Hybrids. It was a miracle that she's even sending me some of their own. My dealer did call. I also wanted to call Bc I couldn't understand why they didn't want to help out their customer. My dealer has done all he can and I have been pleased with all of his work and the way he has handled everything up to this point. It's pretty much a dead issue now. I will sell the Zapco tweeters when they get here and put the money towards the purchase of another Hybrid set.


I am only questioning why it still took so many times. With all due respect, do you treat an oil leak the same way ? How about squealing belts ? 

Giving you a set of tweeters is more than most would do. In fact it is A LOT as really they do not owe you anything but a repaired amplifier. What you feel is 'owed to you' and the real reality are two different things. Actually you may want to also take a listen to them, the ESB tweeters are really quite good and it costs you nothing.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

I guess we just disagree then.


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## gus1111 (Apr 17, 2009)

I used to LOVE and Respect Zapco as a brand and company...
Now, with the amplifier issues, not being able to repair them and key people leaving, top products being closed out, and so many other things, I fear for the worst...
In this unstable economic tribulations high end car audio companies have a very rough time just surviving! I can think of at least 10-12 very reputable companies that now are barely breathing on their own and the quality of their products is mediocre at best! The only thing that remained is their past glory, their reputation, their name... It is a very sad thing indeed...


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

does zapcos manual state that they want some sort of passive device in line? I kinda doubt it but not sure.

in my toyota example...is toyota not liable for the damage to cars due to the loss of control?


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

JoshT said:


> My dealer has done all he can and I have been pleased with all of his work and the way he has handled everything up to this point. It's pretty much a dead issue now. I will sell the Zapco tweeters when they get here and put the money towards the purchase of another Hybrid set.


At this point since you are getting the Zapco tweeters so you have accepted the solution as myself would in your situation. I still think the dealer could call Hybrid and ask for a goodwill warranty. At least ask.

There is valid points for both sides and it is sad the attitude from the distributer but they did give you something for the trouble from what I understand is of equal value.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Because you are not their customer. The dealer is Zapco's customer. You are the dealer's customer. Your dealer should be talking to HAT and Zapco.

What I would have done before I jumped on the internet and started going crazy would have been to "play dumb" and have your dealer exchange your tweeters for another set and have the blown ones sent in for warranty...or send yours in for warranty not knowing what was wrong with them. I have a feeling these tweeters could have been replaced for little or no cost to you if you would have done that. But jumping on the internet and making posts about it drawing attention to everything, well, is going to make it really hard to do now.

Your installer/shop is an authorized HAT dealer, correct?




JoshT said:


> After talking with Shelly, you would understand that there was absolutely NO WAY she was getting me a new set of Hybrids. It was a miracle that she's even sending me some of their own. My dealer did call. I also wanted to call Bc I couldn't understand why they didn't want to help out their customer. My dealer has done all he can and I have been pleased with all of his work and the way he has handled everything up to this point. It's pretty much a dead issue now. I will sell the Zapco tweeters when they get here and put the money towards the purchase of another Hybrid set.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

A sticking gas pedal could kill you or someone else.

A malfunctioning amp could kill you or someone else how?

Toyota will fix their problems with their products. Zapco did the same thing. You are essentially asking Toyota to fix/warranty your car after you have turbocharged it and launched a piston through the block because your waste gate stuck open.




turbo5upra said:


> does zapcos manual state that they want some sort of passive device in line? I kinda doubt it but not sure.
> 
> in my toyota example...is toyota not liable for the damage to cars due to the loss of control?


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Because you are not their customer. The dealer is Zapco's customer. You are the dealer's customer. Your dealer should be talking to HAT and Zapco.
> 
> What I would have done before I jumped on the internet and started going crazy would have been to "play dumb" and have your dealer exchange your tweeters for another set and have the blown ones sent in for warranty...or send yours in for warranty not knowing what was wrong with them. I have a feeling these tweeters could have been replaced for little or no cost to you if you would have done that. But jumping on the internet and making posts about it drawing attention to everything, well, is going to make it really hard to do now.
> 
> Your installer/shop is an authorized HAT dealer, correct?



Just curious why you would want to screw one company because another manufacture doesn't have what it takes to step up and take care of something they are responsible for?

Bottom line is even if the warranty is written in such a way as to cover zapco's ass it is something they know they f'd up on. Pull your pants up and cover your mistake. It's a tough market @ the moment and covering a couple pairs of tweeters and rewriting your manual isn't much to keep what was once a good company afloat.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> A sticking gas pedal could kill you or someone else.
> 
> A malfunctioning amp could kill you or someone else how?
> 
> Toyota will fix their problems with their products. Zapco did the same thing. You are essentially asking Toyota to fix/warranty your car after you have turbocharged it and launched a piston through the block because your waste gate stuck open.


If toyotas sticking gas pedal caused you to crash your truck, your telling me that it's fair if Toyota only fixes the gas pedal and leaves you to pay for the damage from the accident? Even though it was their faulty gas pedal that made everything happen?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I think you guys are really grasping at the reality of the differences between a sticking gas pedal and a malfunctioning amp.

Toyota will fix everything that Toyota did. Will they fix the body kit you put on the car for free? No.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

You have never worked retail have you?

Zapco fixed the problems with the Zapco amp. That is all they are required to do.

Now if the shop is an authorized HAT dealer, they could probably have gotten the tweeter issue fixed. All of this should have been exhausted prior to blowing up the internet.




turbo5upra said:


> Just curious why you would want to screw one company because another manufacture doesn't have what it takes to step up and take care of something they are responsible for?
> 
> Bottom line is even if the warranty is written in such a way as to cover zapco's ass it is something they know they f'd up on. Pull your pants up and cover your mistake. It's a tough market @ the moment and covering a couple pairs of tweeters and rewriting your manual isn't much to keep what was once a good company afloat.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

If the body kit was ruined in the accident that the faulty gas pedal caused....then yes, absolutely.

But whatever, you and I clearly see it differently and will not agree on this topic.

This was meant to inform people of my situation with the company, not to sit here and argue with other members. Take something from it or take nothing from it. I don't care.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> You are essentially asking Toyota to fix/warranty your car after you have turbocharged it and launched a piston through the block because your waste gate stuck open.


No... I'm asking toyota to cover the block after the factory wastegate stuck, fuel cut failed to take place and caused it to go lean and then pow.

I don't feel I'm grasping at anything. Zapco admitted they made a mistake.

They learned a lesson @ the OP's expense. Personally if I were the dealer I'd call Zapco and tell them to make it right. If they failed to do so I'd ask them for the address to send remaining stock to. 

If you don't stand behind your product I don't want it!

You a fan of Beta testing? cause I sure as heck ain't.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Man you guys have little grasp on how the real world works.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

So is your shop/installer an authorized HAT dealer?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Being in Chicago, your closest authorized dealer according to the HAT site would be 12V Electronics in Lake in the Hills. And I have a hard time believing they couldn't have gotten your problems taken care of for you.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Man you guys have little grasp on how the real world works.


lol.... glad your one of those that think you can do a half assed yob and point the finger in ten directions to get away with it.

Presumed facts in this:

Zapco admitted the f'd up.
Zapco repaired his amp for that f'up
Zapco's f'up has a 99% probability that it caused the failure.

This is a reasonable guess on my part:
Zapco knew they had and issue ad failed to warn customers or dealers to send all affected amps in.

Zapco rolled the dice and it should cost them money. This is NEGLIGENCE in the real world. This is why auto manufactures do recalls to avoid issues like this. not that a car and a amp by any means are the same thing.

if it was a once in a great while mistake then he wouldn't have a leg to stand on. but since its a common issue and it's under warranty he has something to stand on.

I think I got how the real world works down just fine. (screw who you can to keep the company afloat)


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

What about not fixing the problem the three times prior to it taking the tweeters out? Wouldn't it have made sense to do something about the the problem then?

I'm not saying the amp didn't blow the tweeters and didn't have a problem.

I am trying to understand why it wasn't corrected prior to running into a tree and totalling the car as per your example.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

So you have never worked retail? When I installed for a living, I would have made the situation right. I would have swapped the tweeters out on the spot provided I did the install (or someone from my company did the install) AND we sold the product (warranties are a good reason to purchase from and authorized dealer).

If I did not sell the product and only did the labor, well, the person would be SOL with me trying to get the product fixed. As my life time warranty would only cover install related problems.



turbo5upra said:


> lol.... glad your one of those that think you can do a half assed yob and point the finger in ten directions to get away with it.
> 
> Presumed facts in this:
> 
> ...


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

thehatedguy said:


> Man you guys have little grasp on how the real world works.


This should be placed into a famous quotes book.


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

MrMoto said:


> At this point since you are getting the Zapco tweeters so you have accepted the solution as myself would in your situation. *I still think the dealer could call Hybrid and ask for a goodwill warranty. At least ask.*
> 
> There is valid points for both sides and it is sad the attitude from the distributer but they did give you something for the trouble from what I understand is of equal value.


That's what my dealer did when my esotar tweeter were damaged by my local BMW dealership when I having battery issues.

The way I see it your dealer is not doing his best to get your HAT tweeter replaced under warranty.

I can guarantee you that if 6spdcoupe was your dealer we would have never heard about this. He's all about making every situation right and for that reason I will always buy from him even if I have to pay a little more.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

So if you sold and installed the amp but the tweeters were the customers he would be sol?


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Well to each their own... Should it have been brought to the dealers attention earlier? Sure. 

Should Zapco step up and do something for the customer? Sure. Sounds like they did...

Should they cut you a check for new speakers? Eh... not sure. Amplifiers while can cause issues (as we see here) are devices that can kill speakers even when operating 100%. User error can kill a driver. Where do you mark the line? There was fault on both sides. He got some decent tweeters he can use or resell. 

Time to move on.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

turbo5upra said:


> So if you sold and installed the amp but the tweeters were the customers he would be sol?


Yup. Who knows what abuse the customer put them through. High DB recording, sine wave cd at full tilt? Abuse can happen.. and to thing someone will warranty a whole install is just not practical. Especially when the dealer would have no ties to the company of the customers product. Therefore made no money selling it, and would have to pay full retail to warranty it.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

turbo5upra said:


> So if you sold and installed the amp but the tweeters were the customers he would be sol?


From what I understand, he would be SOL on the tweeters.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Nah... New speakers wouldn't be fair to zapco... Used hybrid price sounds fair.... To me what sounds really fair is split the used price 3 ways... Zapco covered the third with the tweeters... Now time to ask the dealer to cover a bit..,

And time to rewrite the manual if it's the way I would suspect.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Used pricing is such a variable factor. Would need to create a universal policy.. Like 50% of retail cost. Otherwise I'm sure the lowest sale price in the last 90 days would be used. From what I've read here Zapco after much hassle and unprofessional representatives made this situation right. Hopefully this has been a learning experience for all parties involved.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Hybrid has a set value for used....


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

turbo5upra said:


> Nah... New speakers wouldn't be fair to zapco... Used hybrid price sounds fair.... To me what sounds really fair is split the used price 3 ways... Zapco covered the third with the tweeters... Now time to ask the dealer to cover a bit..,
> 
> And time to rewrite the manual if it's the way I would suspect.


I partially agree with the latter part of your statement. They could include something along the lines of protecting speakers with some type of passive resistor. It seems to me they are taking a utilitarian perspective as if they tried to include every possible issue that "could" occur in their manual that damn thing would be as thick as a dictionary. 
I am NOT a retailer, business owner, or vendor. I am just a guy who (like many of you) has spent his fair share of cash on audio equipment. If my equipment fails I go to the retailer. If that equipment failed and took out my sub that I did NOT buy from that retailer I go to the retailer for the amp that went out and I send the sub in for repair and I cover the damages. 

Why the hell would I do this!!??!!

Because this is the responsibility I took on when I decided to be an audiophile. It was NOT my fault the amp went out, however I decided to put the amp in my car/truck. If the amp was under warranty COOL!!!! If not, well that is on me. 

I am not bias here. I am (like others) just stating my personal opinion so that another view can be placed into perspective.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

Any chance we could end this thread? The problem was resolved and all of us will never agree.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

splaudiohz said:


> I partially agree with the latter part of your statement. They could include something along the lines of protecting speakers with some type of passive resistor. It seems to me they are taking a utilitarian perspective as if they tried to include every possible issue that "could" occur in their manual that damn thing would be as thick as a dictionary.
> I am NOT a retailer, business owner, or vendor. I am just a guy who (like many of you) has spent his fair share of cash on audio equipment. If my equipment fails I go to the retailer. If that equipment failed and took out my sub that I did NOT buy from that retailer I go to the retailer for the amp that went out and I send the sub in for repair and I cover the damages.
> 
> Why the hell would I do this!!??!!
> ...


I completely agree. The amp company should not be on the hook for smoking someone's speakers. Safe guards should of been installed on the speakers to help prevent this. Also the issue happened 4 times before damaging the users tweeters. Sometimes ya just gotta say WTF, oh well... let's move on.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

Just check with the HAT dealer. Give it a shot before giving up. I've blown tweeters due to my own issues and they were replaced. With any luck you can sell the zapco tweeters to pay for your bruised feelings.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

JoshT said:


> Any chance we could end this thread? The problem was resolved and all of us will never agree.


Discussion is staying pretty civil so far.. I'm sure it will get attention if something catches fire.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

JoshT said:


> Any chance we could end this thread? The problem was resolved and all of us will never agree.


If you haven't already, take a Philosophy class. You will wanna kill at least two people by the end of the semester.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

splaudiohz said:


> If you haven't already, take a Philosophy class. You will wanna kill at least two people by the end of the semester.


Just 2? I usually get more than that in just english classes. :laugh:


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## upperguy (Jul 31, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> What about not fixing the problem the three times prior to it taking the tweeters out? Wouldn't it have made sense to do something about the the problem then?
> 
> I'm not saying the amp didn't blow the tweeters and didn't have a problem.
> 
> I am trying to understand why it wasn't corrected prior to running into a tree and totalling the car as per your example.


This is not directed at this particular quote, but more the entire argument in this thread. First, I agree with you entirely.

It's not that you're going to lose though, it's that you're not going to win. I've got friends that insist the world revolves around them and any inconvenience should be compensated. When something goes wrong, it doesn't matter how much it costs someone else as long as they get their way. Especially with audio, when they know the markup on speakers and parts.

I agree lets move on from this thread though, anything that could be done has, there will be no further progress.


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

JoshT said:


> I guess we just disagree then.


I think there are a lot of good opinions on here and I can say I feel for everyone involved. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong but there is good reasons to pay an not pay.

Keep an open mind on what has been said and don't take anyone's opinion personally.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Really? This really proves that you have no idea on how the real world or retail works.

Would you take your Honda to a Chevy dealer to have repairs done under warranty?



turbo5upra said:


> So if you sold and installed the amp but the tweeters were the customers he would be sol?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

So what I gather is that you did not have the work done by an authorized HAT dealer.

What should have happened should have been:

You had the amp fixed before it took out your tweeters.

Since you didn't, and it did take out your tweeters...you should have contacted the dealer you bought the tweeters from and see if they could swap them for you provided they were still under whatever warranty HAT offers.

But since you didn't do that I am guessing you bought the tweeters used. In which case you have no warranty to stand on. But maybe HAT could have done you a favor this once and swapped them for you. Maybe they would have, maybe they wouldn't have. Worse case you send them to HAT to have them looked at and they tell you, sorry, can't replace for free. Maybe they would charge you a minimal price to replace them, maybe they would charge you full price. 

While the amp was at fault for messing them up, you are not totally innocent yourself since you allowed the problem to persist. Ultimately it is your own fault the tweeters blew due to your lack of fixing a defective amp in a timely manor. And to demand someone to bend over backwards to fix your problem in bad judgement is pretty ridiculous. The fact that they even offered you some replacement speakers is pretty outstanding. You should have taken the tweeters and said thank you. Zapco fixed their problem with the amp and then tried to appease you even more. But that wasn't good enough. So you blast them all over the internet when in reality your poor judgement lead to the problem.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> Really? This really proves that you have no idea on how the real world or retail works.
> 
> Would you take your Honda to a Chevy dealer to have repairs done under warranty?


Yes it does prove it :-(


If he handed a NIB (not that it has been said so I'm not sure) tweeters and the installer put them in and tuned the system....

along with the track record of the zapco amps having an known and admitted issue by zapco then yes I would expect them to step up.
________________________________________________________________

Bottom line to this whole matter is Zapco screwed up in production of these amps and is not stepping up to the plate to actively make it right.

Please school me in the real world. Cause I'm stuck in the doing whats right by the customer world.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

thehatedguy said:


> While the amp was at fault for messing them up, you are not totally innocent yourself since you allowed the problem to persist. Ultimately it is your own fault the tweeters blew due to your lack of fixing a defective amp in a timely manor.


This is why I say 3 people are on the hook.

Zapco neglected to tell owners of a known issue. they also to the best of my knowledge since I don't have a manual don't state to passively protect the speakers. Two strikes.

dealer failed to install backup measures and if they knew about the issue contact customers who might be affected by it.


Customer for failing to pull the fuse upon reading that Zapco had a known issue.....

_________________________________________________________________

hence my split used cost into 3.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Zapco has done right in this. That fact that they are sending him tweeters is them stepping up. It was the fault of the OP/Installer not to have protected the tweeters in the first place. 

Here is my recent example....
The company that manufactured the shingles on my roof manufactured them wrong. There was even a class action law suit against the company for the shingles. I have to have my 7yr old roof replaced (house is also 7 years old). I filed the class action claim form and the company sent me a little over $2,000 for my roof replacement according to the terms set forth by the judge (which was much more generous then the standard warranty terms). I have some water damage inside my house due to the defective shingles.....they will do nothing about that. My roof estimate to replace is $9,000. They aren't even required to pay all the new shingle cost, little lone the labor and code upgrades. Luckily, we also have had lots of hail and I was able to turn it into insurance to get the rest paid for. But I will pay for it in the long run with higher insurance premiums. 

Don't feel so bad about your tweeters....it is just standard business!


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

thehatedguy said:


> So what I gather is that you did not have the work done by an authorized HAT dealer.
> 
> What should have happened should have been:
> 
> ...


The tweeter was not purchased new or installed by an authorized dealer?

If this is the case you really have to talk to your installer on this one. 

This is what sucks. Assuming the statement above is correct this should have never been posted in the first place. Your only complaint is rude service then. The intial charge to fix the amps was probally a miscommunication between the dealer and mfg assuming the amps were purchased new from an authorized dealer IMO.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I don't know if they were purchased used or not. But it sure seems like they were not installed by a HAT dealer.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Here is a special deal for you.....

I just got off the phone with Scott at Hybrid on your behalf (I am a dealer for Hybrid) and we are willing to offer you a VERY special price on brand new replacement tweeters since we both still feel very bad for what happened. Or you may also choose to use this as an opportunity to upgrade to the Ring Radiators at a very special price. I will send you a PM to discuss.

Jerry


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

That is awesome.

And that's usually all it takes to get something done.

There was no need to slander someone/company all over the internet before exhausting all of your possibilities. Which you didn't do.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

Niebur3 said:


> Here is a special deal for you.....
> 
> I just got off the phone with Scott at Hybrid on your behalf (I am a dealer for Hybrid) and we are willing to offer you a VERY special price on brand new replacement tweeters since we both still feel very bad for what happened. Or you may also choose to use this as an opportunity to upgrade to the Ring Radiators at a very special price. I will send you a PM to discuss.
> 
> Jerry


Wow that's pretty cool of both you and Scott. Glad to see members helping members with the resources they have.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

Niebur3 said:


> Here is a special deal for you.....
> 
> I just got off the phone with Scott at Hybrid on your behalf (I am a dealer for Hybrid) and we are willing to offer you a VERY special price on brand new replacement tweeters since we both still feel very bad for what happened. Or you may also choose to use this as an opportunity to upgrade to the Ring Radiators at a very special price. I will send you a PM to discuss.
> 
> Jerry


Well at least someone is going to help this kid since zapped co won't.


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## upperguy (Jul 31, 2009)

Niebur3 said:


> Here is a special deal for you.....
> 
> I just got off the phone with Scott at Hybrid on your behalf (I am a dealer for Hybrid) and we are willing to offer you a VERY special price on brand new replacement tweeters since we both still feel very bad for what happened. Or you may also choose to use this as an opportunity to upgrade to the Ring Radiators at a very special price. I will send you a PM to discuss.
> 
> Jerry


Well played sir, I know this will come back on you in a good way.


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

The amplifiers were bought and installed from an authorized dealer. The speakers were purchased from a member on this forum (Never Used). These Tweeters were also installed by the same authorized HAT and Zapco dealer. When asked if there was anything we could do with the tweeters, the answer was no.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

Good job hat.... Could not ask for better pr....



Not so sure what was slander???? Making a company look bad yes... But that is not slander....


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## JoshT (May 20, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> That is awesome.
> 
> And that's usually all it takes to get something done.
> 
> There was no need to slander someone/company all over the internet before exhausting all of your possibilities. Which you didn't do.



How did I not exhaust all of my possibilities? IMO the only possibility I saw was Zapco taking care of the situation. IF that wasn't the case then I could speak with my dealer about trying to get a better deal on a new set of tweeters. But that has nothing to do with the way Zapco initially didnt want to pay for the the fixing of the amplifiers and the way I was treated by them.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

If the dealer that did the install had tried to help you out with a little more effort(calling HAT) things might never had gotten this far. 

But in the end it looks like you'll get a favorable outcome...nice


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

Niebur3 said:


> Here is a special deal for you.....
> 
> I just got off the phone with Scott at Hybrid on your behalf (I am a dealer for Hybrid) and we are willing to offer you a VERY special price on brand new replacement tweeters since we both still feel very bad for what happened. Or you may also choose to use this as an opportunity to upgrade to the Ring Radiators at a very special price. I will send you a PM to discuss.
> 
> Jerry


Awesome!!!! You are an asset to the community.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

JoshT said:


> Any chance we could end this thread? The problem was resolved and all of us will never agree.


Josh, I'm glad that we can put this in the past and move on to better things. 

Thanks Niebur3 for offering to help! 



trojan fan said:


> If the dealer that did the install had tried to help you out with a little more effort(calling HAT) things might never had gotten this far.
> 
> But in the end it looks like you'll get a favorable outcome...nice


Don't hate the dealer.  

Lots of speculation in this thread..........


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

12v Electronics said:


> Josh, I'm glad that we can put this in the past and move on to better things.
> 
> Thanks Niebur3 for offering to help!
> 
> ...


If you were the dealer you definitely didn't do all you could do to avoid this Thread/ situation. You could have warranty the tweeter for the dude and avoid this mess. 

I bought Cal28 tweeters from the classifieds 3-4 years ago and blew them shortly after that. As a goodwill gesture Don replaced them for me without one paying a penny. I didnt even had to pay for return shipping from Jersey to Florida. Keep in mind that i never bought anything from him. I knew he was a Rainbow dealer but did not the money to buy a new set from him.

Since you installed them and im assuming that you sold him the Zapco amps you could have warranty the tweeters for him.Im pretty sure It would had only taken you call to Scott to get a new set under warranty.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

goodstuff said:


> Well at least someone is going to help this kid since zapped co won't.


They fixed his amp and threw in a set of tweeters that sell for $400. Id say that result is far better than I would have expected. People are so entitled these days


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## Wonway (Jun 9, 2009)

tyroneshoes said:


> They fixed his amp and threw in a set of tweeters that sell for $400. Id say that result is far better than I would have expected. People are so entitled these days


You mean they fixed the under warranty amps that blew a $550 set of non-production limited edition tweeters and gave him a $300 set? 

Entitled for sure 

Am I missing something?


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

Wonway said:


> Am I missing something?


To be brief...yes


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> To be brief...yes


Entitled would be if it was a freak thing. It was a design flaw. They halfass owned up to it with a set of tweeters that cost them at most a hundred bucks.


Scott stood up and made his company look great. He had 0 to do with the whole deal. Asking him to do something would have been bs.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Who cares what the tweeters cost Zapco to make. Unless you have some Beryllium domed something, do you think ANY tweeter costs that much to make?


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Was the answer no because you were the 2nd owner and thus they had no warranty on them?




JoshT said:


> The amplifiers were bought and installed from an authorized dealer. The speakers were purchased from a member on this forum (Never Used). These Tweeters were also installed by the same authorized HAT and Zapco dealer. When asked if there was anything we could do with the tweeters, the answer was no.


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

turbo5upra said:


> Entitled would be if it was a freak thing. It was a design flaw. They halfass owned up to it with a set of tweeters that cost them at most a hundred bucks.
> 
> 
> *Scott stood up and made his company look great*. He had 0 to do with the whole deal. Asking him to do something would have been bs.


Scott is a genius when it comes to marketing. He knew what was at stake here. HAT is not that popular because they make "great" speakers, advertizing is what made them popular.

I still think the dealer also drop the ball....


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## Wonway (Jun 9, 2009)

nepl29 said:


> Scott is a genius when it comes to marketing. He knew what was at stake here. HAT is not that popular because they make "great" speakers, advertizing is what made them popular.
> 
> I still think the dealer also drop the ball....


Advertising? Where?


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

thehatedguy said:


> Was the answer no because you were the 2nd owner and thus they had no warranty on them?


I bet you it was, the dealer did not make a profit on the sale so why would he care about warrantied them.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

turbo5upra said:


> Entitled would be if it was a freak thing. It was a design flaw. They halfass owned up to it with a set of tweeters that cost them at most a hundred bucks.
> 
> 
> Scott stood up and made his company look great. He had 0 to do with the whole deal. Asking him to do something would have been bs.


If they were zapco speakers that were blown Im 100% sure they would have replaced them as well, especially if your dealer called and you went through the appropriate channels.

Im not going to make the same valid points made by the hated guy, Don and the various others but Zapco is responsible for zapco. How does zapco know your tweeters are even blown? 

Why stop at tweeters why not say the amp caused electrical problems and try to get them to pay for car repairs, not to mention the 4 $1000 subwoofers that were blown by the amp, and toss in punitive damages, why not.

Someone who doesnt know what theyre doing with these amps could have easily tried to highpass the tweets at 2k and ended up highpassing them at 20hz because all it take is a little typo. 

Its not an honest world and businesses have to protect themselves as well. 

The world does not revolve around you and if you cant see what a solid it was of them to toss in those tweeters (which you sure seem to enjoy changing the value of in both of your posts) you have confirmation bias and Im assuming have an issue with zapco.


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

Wonway said:


> Advertising? Where?


I call it invisible advertising/marketing. You need to learn more of what happens behind the scenes of retail car audio...You will very surprised....


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## Wonway (Jun 9, 2009)

nepl29 said:


> I call it invisible advertising/marketing. You need to learn more of what happens behind the scenes of retail car audio...You will very surprised....


I see. I am more of a seeing is believing kind of guy. Things like championship trophies, first rate customer service, support and product quality kinds of things are what do it for me.


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> The world does not revolve around you and if you cant see what a solid it was of them to toss in those tweeters (which you sure seem to enjoy changing the value of in both of your posts) you have confirmation bias and Im assuming have an issue with zapco.


I only posted one Price that I know of... that was the guess of about a hundred bucks from ESB, that was a rather high guess. The original Zapco tweeters I just sold were very nice tweeters.

I would guess that he would be able to get 150-200 in a quick sale of them nib which would cover a third of the new hybrids.

________________________________________________________________
prior beef with Zapco?? not at all, just glad when I was new amp shopping I heard the dc's might have an issue and I really wanted to give the a try. I did not end up with them and after this I'm kinda glad.

_________________________________________________________________

Don't they have protection from the consumer getting into them other than keeping a lock down on the software? we are talking dc amps right? so why would they assume it was the end user since the dealer tuned it?
_________________________________________________________________

What should have took place if the dealer didn't step up at first would be Zapco asking the customer for the dealer and getting back to him after getting to the bottom of it.

to not know what you are doing and treat the customer like poop is not cool.


The main issue I have with Zapco @ is that they didn't take an active roll after they found that the amps had an issue.


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

Yep, Scott (Hybrid) has great customer service. When I called him and alerted him of the situation and asked that he support me in helping the OP, he didn't hesitate. I am just glad the OP is getting help in this and that Tom is able to work with him!


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

turbo5upra said:


> Entitled would be if it was a freak thing. It was a design flaw. They halfass owned up to it with a set of tweeters that cost them at most a hundred bucks.
> 
> 
> Scott stood up and made his company look great. He had 0 to do with the whole deal. Asking him to do something would have been bs.


What is the relevance of the cost of their tweeters ? They *gave *them to him which costs them something. Amounts are completely irrelevant especially when they had zero obligation to do so. Do you know what the Hybrid tweeters cost Scott ? Me neither, doesn't matter. However to put things into your view ..

What if the tweeters cost Scott LESS than what the ESBs cost Zapco ? Then would Zapco be a hero and Scott a let down ? Surely you cannot believe this.

Scott did do good, but by JERRY steeping up and alerting him. Not THE DEALER which is who should have addressed it. Scott and his company can have some credit where it is due, but do not dismiss the person that gave the attention to it.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

Let me also clarify here ..

The amp in question was 4 years old. Yes, four years. 3 years old prior to the OP even getting it and was bought from another dealer in another state. Not by this dealer here from Zapco directly as new 'A' stock, but 'transhipped' from another dealer in -who knows what condition-. Could have been new, used, demo, etc. Hell could have been a used or demo amp that looked brand new and the dealer in this case was mislead. Doesn't really matter though as the amp was not bought as a dealer from said manufacturer and was already 3 years old at the time of the sale.

So a bit of a recap .. 

4 year old amp that has had problems 4 times over the past year. OP did not address this the first three time and perhaps wouldn't have until something 'blew up'.

Zapco despite this not being under warranty actually warrantied it, updated it, changed the fans and in Both of his amps at no charge. Oh and yea gave him a pretty nice set of tweeters.

Zapco is found to be in the wrong and the bad guy ? Please, someone fill me where they went wrong to be viewed this way. 

Obviously the OP withheld some critical information already about the amplifier, what else is missing with this story ?


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

Guys, I'm out of here. There is no reason to air any dirty laundry as the customer is happy. The details of this situation are nobody's business besides the people involved.

Zapco and HAT are 2 great companies and I am proud to be a dealer for both. I am going to leave it at that.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

turbo5upra said:


> The main issue I have with Zapco @ is that they didn't take an active roll after they found that the amps had an issue.


I have a dc1000.4 so I guess Im in the Danger Zone.

I have never heard about people having issues with these amps so Im assuming the issue is pretty rare. I wouldnt buy them if I knew they had issues. I know what amps do have known issues and the dcrefs are not on that list. All I heard people complaining about was the software issues. I don't have the problem. 

So what should an amplifier company do if about 1 out of 100 of the amps have an issue they are aware of? Toss all 100? Repair all 100? Offer a warranty that they will honor? Do the math. Of course this is all hypothetical.

Bottom line. He bought a zapco amp that had a problem, zapco fixed his amp as they should have and gave him some expensive tweeters just to try to keep him happy as a customer. Instead he still wants more. That is what I meant by entitled.

Edit: Now I hear the amp is 4 years old and all this new info, entitled is accurate


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## turbo5upra (Oct 3, 2008)

was the amp in question sold as new? I don't need a reply to this. we're going to go round and round on this. 

Zapco imo for the most part made it right. however if you don't know what your talking about ask if you can get to the bottom of it and get back to them. (referencing what we are told of the call to zapco)


Now if they haven't already informed owners that they can and this happens again then they deserve what they get. also if they don't already and don't start to ask that the end user puts some kind of insurance on the outputs then they are asking for it.



6spdcoupe said:


> Let me also clarify here ..
> 
> The amp in question was 4 years old. Yes, four years. 3 years old prior to the OP even getting it and was bought from another dealer in another state. Not by this dealer here from Zapco directly as new 'A' stock, but 'transhipped' from another dealer in -who knows what condition-. Could have been new, used, demo, etc. Hell could have been a used or demo amp that looked brand new and the dealer in this case was mislead. Doesn't really matter though as the amp was not bought as a dealer from said manufacturer and was already 3 years old at the time of the sale.
> 
> ...


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## nepl29 (Mar 25, 2007)

12v Electronics said:


> Guys, I'm out of here. There is no reason to air any dirty laundry as the customer is happy. The details of this situation are nobody's business besides the people involved.
> 
> Zapco and HAT are 2 great companies and I am proud to be a dealer for both. I am going to leave it at that.



Wow, just because you're not looking good right now you wanting to leave?

You sure youre proud to be a dealer of both companies? The way i see it you clearly have favoritism towards one of them.

6spdcouple would have never let somebody blast of the products he sells specially Rainbow. Do a quick search and you will see what is to be a dealer that stands behind what he sells. 

At the end of this Zapco is the one that is looking bad when all of this was voidable from the get go. AFAIK let all the dirty laundry come out...Hopefully this is a warning to members trying to blast a company without giving all the details...

This is better than a novela im glad my favorite one doesnt start until 10pm...


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

12v Electronics said:


> Guys, I'm out of here. There is no reason to air any dirty laundry as the customer is happy. The details of this situation are nobody's business besides the people involved.
> 
> Zapco and HAT are 2 great companies and I am proud to be a dealer for both. I am going to leave it at that.


Tom, with all due respect that went out the window when he brought it here - to a public forum. For whatever reason he did bring it here and made it everyone elses business.


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

6spdcoupe said:


> Tom, with all due respect that went out the window when he brought it here - to a public forum. For whatever reason he did bring it here and made it everyone elses business.


I understand. 

And I can also understand why he was upset. But things were in the works way before this thread was started and even the OP has asked a few times to end this thread. 

I hope you can see where I am coming from and hopefully this speculation and bickering can end. I do not have a magic wand to wave and make everything better, but I will do what I can to make a customer happy. And from what he has repeatedly said, it appears I have done so. 

Tom


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

Wow.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

No one can predict the rippling effect of one pissed off person's decision to splash the waters. Sad to see forum users leave.


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

Wonway said:


> I see. I am more of a seeing is believing kind of guy. Things like championship trophies, first rate customer service, support and product quality kinds of things are what do it for me.



Sounds like you just described a company called Hybrid Audio:laugh:


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## MrMoto (Aug 20, 2009)

6spdcoupe said:


> Let me also clarify here ..
> 
> The amp in question was 4 years old. Yes, four years. 3 years old prior to the OP even getting it and was bought from another dealer in another state. Not by this dealer here from Zapco directly as new 'A' stock, but 'transhipped' from another dealer in -who knows what condition-. Could have been new, used, demo, etc. Hell could have been a used or demo amp that looked brand new and the dealer in this case was mislead. Doesn't really matter though as the amp was not bought as a dealer from said manufacturer and was already 3 years old at the time of the sale.
> 
> ...


This whole thread needs to be deleted. I am at a loss of words. Sorry to Zapco for anything negative I said and sorry to the dealer.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

tyroneshoes said:


> Edit: Now I hear the amp is 4 years old and all this new info, entitled is accurate


Agreed.


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## splaudiohz (Apr 1, 2011)

I do believe the horse is dead, beaten, and made into dog food and glue.


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## BowDown (Sep 24, 2009)

6spdcoupe said:


> Let me also clarify here ..
> 
> The amp in question was 4 years old. Yes, four years. 3 years old prior to the OP even getting it and was bought from another dealer in another state. Not by this dealer here from Zapco directly as new 'A' stock, but 'transhipped' from another dealer in -who knows what condition-. Could have been new, used, demo, etc. Hell could have been a used or demo amp that looked brand new and the dealer in this case was mislead. Doesn't really matter though as the amp was not bought as a dealer from said manufacturer and was already 3 years old at the time of the sale.
> 
> ...


Wow, amazing how the perspective changes when you have more information.


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## goodstuff (Jan 9, 2008)

splaudiohz said:


> I do believe the horse is dead, beaten, and made into dog food and glue.


I've got a hungry puppy and two pieces of mdf that need connecting. 
Hook me up.


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## fake_usa (Apr 16, 2011)

So how do I get a second hand DC360.4 fixed? My system does the same thing, and it
scares the **** out of me when it happens !! I almost crashed pulling out of a parking spot when it happened.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

fake_usa said:


> So how do I get a second hand DC360.4 fixed? My system does the same thing, and it
> scares the **** out of me when it happens !! I almost crashed pulling out of a parking spot when it happened.


Call up zapco


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## azngotskills (Feb 24, 2006)

tyroneshoes said:


> Call up zapco


that would have been my first options


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## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

tyroneshoes said:


> So what should an amplifier company do if about 1 out of 100 of the amps have an issue they are aware of? Toss all 100? Repair all 100? Offer a warranty that they will honor? Do the math. Of course this is all hypothetical.


yes they should. if a car company finds out that 1 out of 100 cars has an issue, they issue a recall and will repair ANY car that MIGHT have the problem. that is how you keep customers coming back.


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## AWC (Mar 31, 2008)

minbari said:


> yes they should. if a car company finds out that 1 out of 100 cars has an issue, they issue a recall and will repair ANY car that MIGHT have the problem. that is how you keep customers coming back.


Yeah right. They will issue a recall if the costs of the lawsuits exceed the price of the recall and rebuild. 

And even then, a car company only does it when its a safety issue. I have one of the most dependable vehicles of all time. A Kawasaki KLR 650 On/Off road motorcycle. And pretty much all the doohickeys need strengthening but its not been fixed in like 30 years. Go figure.


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## fake_usa (Apr 16, 2011)

From what I read, Zapco only deals with the original buyers of their products.

And their support forums go unanswered.

• View topic - Loud Buzz


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## keith89 (Jul 1, 2008)

I had a similar issue with my dc reference 1000.4 amp playing a tone when i turned on my car. It turned out to be a loose SymbiLink cable. It was in the port on the amp but it must have worked its way loose slightly. It did blow my Polk sr6500 tweeters. I ended up gluing the symbilink connector to the amp with shoegoo so it isn't visible and easily removable if needed. I have not had an issue in the 3 years since.


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## tyroneshoes (Mar 21, 2006)

I was the second (at least) owner and they serviced a dc amp I had. As long as the serial is legit they repair it. Its a service you pay for.

Amp vs car is a horrible comparison. No deaths have ever came from a broken amp.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

So what ended up being the final result ?


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## Mike_Dee (Mar 26, 2011)

Disappointing to hear. It costs a company so little to make a customer happy, and it goes such a long way.


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## Robb (Dec 5, 2008)

Mike_Dee said:


> Disappointing to hear. It costs a company so little to make a customer happy, and it goes such a long way.


Margins are so narrow nowadays just to keep a company afloat is difficult !
Imagine if hundreds of customers wanted to be kept "happy"....

This is why it is extremely important to manufacture quality products to begin with, just like the old school Zapco products of the 80's and 90's !


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## 12v Electronics (Jun 1, 2008)

6spdcoupe said:


> So what ended up being the final result ?


The final result is the customer left with a smile on his face. I don't know why you felt the need to bump this thread seeing you are a dealer. 

Now, since you are a mod I am hoping you can close this thread as the customer is happy and to do what's right.


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## 6spdcoupe (Jan 12, 2006)

12v Electronics said:


> The final result is the customer left with a smile on his face. I don't know why you felt the need to bump this thread seeing you are a dealer.
> 
> Now, since you are a mod I am hoping you can close this thread as the customer is happy and to do what's right.


Tom, again, with all due respect I think my reason for the bump of the thread was fairly clear and a direct question. I am not sure where that got lost in translation. Also not quite sure what my dealer and rep status have to do with my question either.

That is great news, but is it not ok for the OP to answer now ? If you feel offended for whatever reason for me asking, well, not sure why or what I can do with that. I could though ask you why you defend yourself under different aliases though.

We can play ping pong or just let the OP report back ...


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

6spdcoupe said:


> Tom, again, with all due respect I think my reason for the bump of the thread was fairly clear and a direct question. I am not sure where that got lost in translation. Also not quite sure what my dealer and rep status have to do with my question either.
> 
> That is great news, but is it not ok for the OP to answer now ? If you feel offended for whatever reason for me asking, well, not sure why or what I can do with that. I could though ask you why you defend yourself under different aliases though.
> 
> We can play ping pong or just let the OP report back ...


Different aliases??? Due tell! :lurk:


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## trojan fan (Nov 4, 2007)

12v Electronics said:


> The final result is the customer left with a smile on his face. I don't know why you felt the need to bump this thread seeing you are a dealer.
> 
> Now, since you are a mod I am hoping you can close this thread as the customer is happy and to do what's right.


Now he wants the thread closed.....:whip:


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## Fiercetimbo17 (May 17, 2007)

I have not been on the forums in a while, but I have this exact problem with my 650.6
It only happens every once in a while but scares the **** out of me. My dc1100.1 has horrible fan noise as well. Both were purchased authorized and I was issued RMA's for them but I never got around to sending them in.


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## keith89 (Jul 1, 2008)

Fiercetimbo17 said:


> I have not been on the forums in a while, but I have this exact problem with my 650.6
> It only happens every once in a while but scares the **** out of me. My dc1100.1 has horrible fan noise as well. Both were purchased authorized and I was issued RMA's for them but I never got around to sending them in.


I had the fan noise as well. I ended up buying quieter and more powerful fans from digikey. Worked like a charm. I did this with both of my DC reference amps. As for the loud tone that happens once in a while, I ended up gluing the symbilink connectors to the amplifier with shoegoo(so it's removeable if necessary). I found that with vibrations, the symbilink connectors can become loose and cause this problem. I haven't had a problem since.

I do agree that these are issues that should not have come up, but i am still overall happy with the amplifiers.


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## redbaronace (Sep 27, 2011)

I am pleased with my Zapco customer service. I realize that they might be going through some changes right now, but it's my plan to stick with them.

Would prefer great amps with average customer service than the other way around.

With many former audio brands going away, I do hope Zapco is around for a long time to come.


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## redbaronace (Sep 27, 2011)

I am pleased with my Zapco customer service. I realize that they might be going through some changes right now, but it's my plan to stick with them.

Would prefer great amps with average customer service than the other way around.

With many former audio brands going away, I do hope Zapco is around for a long time to come.


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