# anyone have any tips on HT subs?



## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

i plan to be building an HT sub for my room. my room i think is 20x14. i have a pretty high powered 5 speaker surround sound system and i need a sub that will keep up. it needs to do good on both music and movies.

any tips on tuning frequency, sub size, and power?

i have never built an HT sub before. have only used jbl subs, like one that you would find at best buy.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

tune low as possible, 20, 19, 18 hz. for best movie low lows.after that PLACEMENT is critical, in the right spot it will be amazing, in the wrong spot it wont produce any bass.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

60ndown said:


> tune low as possible, 20, 19, 18 hz. for best movie low lows.after that PLACEMENT is critical, in the right spot it will be amazing, in the wrong spot it wont produce any bass.


it will be placed right behind the couch i sit on. so only a couple feet away. this has worked well with the other subs i have used in the same room.

i will most likely downfire the sub. should the port be on the same plane or on a different side? i could also get crazy and use 2 ports and plug one for movies or vice versa to change the tuning if need be. have a tune for movies then have a tune for music. or is that not really needed with the right setup?


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## drocpsu (May 3, 2005)

I have a HT sub that a friend of mine made. I forget the exact measurements, but it's a side-firing Dayon Reference HF 12" (the partner sub to the HO) in something like 5 cu ft sealed. It's powered a a few hundred watt plate amp. 

It sounds great on music and can get very loud and low on movies with deep bass. I have it turned way down out of respect for my neighbors. 

Overall, it's a pretty basic setup that performs well.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

cool. i was thinking a Dayton Titanic 12 or 15 ported around 18-20hz. not sure on power, but probably around 500-1000 watts. i'll get one of the rack mount amps from PE. also not sure on box size or port area yet. i know i wanna use an aero port or two.

i wanna build a setup thats gonna last and that i won't feel the need to upgrade later on.

so i'm pretty much just concerned with what size sub, and what tuning would work best on music and movies. space isn't much of an issue.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

tcguy85 said:


> it will be placed right behind the couch i sit on. so only a couple feet away. this has worked well with the other subs i have used in the same room.
> 
> i will most likely downfire the sub. should the port be on the same plane or on a different side? i could also get crazy and use 2 ports and plug one for movies or vice versa to change the tuning if need be. have a tune for movies then have a tune for music. or is that not really needed with the right setup?


great idea imo if you can figure out how to do it. 

as far as i know, on music, there isnt much below 30hz, in a movie there is imfo down to 8 hz 'apparently'??


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

60ndown said:


> great idea imo if you can figure out how to do it.
> 
> as far as i know, on music, there isnt much below 30hz, in a movie there is imfo down to 8 hz 'apparently'??


it doesn't seem that hard to figure out really. when one is plugged you just have to figure that used up area as part of the internal box volume when figuring out the box size.

the whole going down to 8hz is what has me questioning how low to tune. do i tune as low as say 15hz or is 20hz ok even if i want it to play that 8hz tone? i just have no idea how low to tune and how big of a port to use. 

anybody have a link to some good general info on HT sub tuning?


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

ive seen people spend a lot of money and effort to get the 8hz, but its only on 1 or 2 recordings, seriously who cares about reproducing 'cannon shot' accurately ???????? or a dinosaur foot step?

at the expense of everything between 28 and 70hz?

youve seen my ht sub right?

seems like the best option to me,

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31369&highlight=diyma+pics


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

hmmmmm..... interesting.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

so an 18 - 20hz tune should be ok?


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

tcguy85 said:


> so an 18 - 20hz tune should be ok?


im no audio expert, but if you go 2 x tunings, id do 

12hz and 24hz. + or - a couple

the 12 would give you scary lows in movies, and the 24 would sound killer on music.

imo


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## ccdoggy (Jul 2, 2006)

I built whats known as a LLT (large and low tuned) aka EBS sub. its a Fi Q 15" in a 11.5 cuft box, tuned to ~13hz. It is flat to about 10hz or so with room gain

Why build a sub that can reproduce a cannon, because it feels like the cannon is in there. In War of the Worlds my floor gives during the lightning strike part. It is amazing.

The advantage of tuning so low in such a large box is the performance all over the sub range, giving up nothing in performance. However you do have issues running a small box tuned low, which i am pretty sure what you were referencing as becoming a problem.

It all ends up being dependent on how much space you are willing to give up, and what kinda budget you have.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

ccdoggy said:


> I built whats known as a LLT (large and low tuned) aka EBS sub. its a Fi Q 15" in a 11.5 cuft box, tuned to ~13hz. It is flat to about 10hz or so with room gain
> 
> Why build a sub that can reproduce a cannon, because it feels like the cannon is in there. In War of the Worlds my floor gives during the lightning strike part. It is amazing.
> 
> ...


if i want to hear a cannon at realistic levels i just go in the back yard and fire one off


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## speakerboy (Oct 2, 2007)

I help my father-in-law build subs that are tuned to 16Hz all the time. He installs digital church organs.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

ccdoggy said:


> I built whats known as a LLT (large and low tuned) aka EBS sub. its a Fi Q 15" in a 11.5 cuft box, tuned to ~13hz. It is flat to about 10hz or so with room gain
> 
> Why build a sub that can reproduce a cannon, because it feels like the cannon is in there. In War of the Worlds my floor gives during the lightning strike part. It is amazing.
> 
> ...


i have no problem taking a 12 or 15 and building a huge box. space won't be an issue to me.

but hows it do on music? specifically double bass drum? 

it will be crossed at about 60hz because my towers don't do to well with anything under that.


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## Lumadar (Sep 28, 2007)

ccdoggy said:


> I built whats known as a LLT (large and low tuned) aka EBS sub. its a Fi Q 15" in a 11.5 cuft box, tuned to ~13hz. It is flat to about 10hz or so with room gain
> 
> Why build a sub that can reproduce a cannon, because it feels like the cannon is in there. In War of the Worlds my floor gives during the lightning strike part. It is amazing.
> 
> ...


Have pics? I would love to see that beast


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

Lumadar said:


> Have pics? I would love to see that beast


x2! post em up right here if ya like. i don't mind.


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## Robert_J (Nov 9, 2006)

You haven't posted a budget yet. That is usually the deciding factor on most sub builds. Another thing missing are your goals. ccdoggy had a goal of producing the lowest parts of special effects with authority. It sounds like he achieved that at the expense of a very large enclosure. That's why they call it Hoffman's Iron Law.

After stating your budget and goals, you need to state any constaints to this project. Enclosure size is one of the biggest. Then you state your wants like, dual tuning. Wants will be the first thing to be dropped if they are at odds with the other parts of the project.

You should also browse some retail sub web sites like SV Sound, Hsu and Epik Subwoofers. These are some of the smaller subs that can be duplicated. ccdoggy's LLT is massive. AVS Forum has a DIY section with a sticky of completed projects. It may take a few hours to go through the completed projects but this is more like we are talking about.

Why am asking all of this? It's how I design my own subs. I take my home theater sound seriously and I think others should as well.

-Robert


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## fej (Feb 8, 2006)

I built an Adire Tempest 15" sub in their .707 aligned box tuned at 18.8hz. I have 1000w Dayton plate on it. Box is about 6.5cu^3. Very solid performance and plays quite low well, although I have not done the WoW movie test yet. Pretty musical as well and it is crossed at about 75hz (would have to go look). As soon as I get my new tower project completed I will get it down to about 60hz. Unfortunately it is not corner loaded at the moment due to our living room arrangement  HUGE difference with location as others have mentioned.

You could seriously put this box together with a 500w amp on it and precut 24" pieces of 3/4" mdf (you would have to make the braces obviously) and do a little edge cutting. 2 ports about 8" in length IIRC. I can link the plans when I get home, but it outperforms every store bought sub I have ever heard at any price (including the 3000 watt models). I bet you could put it together for under $500. Bottom firing design on 4" tall legs of your choice. I went to lowe's and bought pre formed table legs and shaped them to fit my holes heh. Just warning you that 24x24x24 is not small, nor light. Need to find a good home for it heh.

G'luck


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

sorry i didn't outline a budget or goal but right now i'm just kind of brainstorming. i don't have the budget at all right now and i don't just wanna throw something together. i wanna spend the money and do it right.

pretty much just looking for general tips and ideas.


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## 60ndown (Feb 8, 2007)

tcguy85 said:


> sorry i didn't outline a budget or goal but right now i'm just kind of brainstorming. i don't have the budget at all right now and i don't just wanna throw something together. i wanna spend the money and do it right.
> 
> pretty much just looking for general tips and ideas.


most people have neibours, no point in building a 1000 watt sub that can play 8hz with authority unless you live miles from anyone.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

don't have any neighbors close enough to piss off. so i can let it wang!


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## Robert_J (Nov 9, 2006)

Since you only want tips now, build it big and tune it low. Better yet, build an IB sub.

-Robert


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## The Drake (Apr 3, 2007)

I currently have a single 12" Dayton Titanic MKIII in a box that was built for my car, 2.8ft^3 tuned to 28Hz with a dayton 500W plate amp powering it and it sounds great, a little ghetto but sounds great. I am getting another box built thats tuned down to 20Hz and Much bigger for it with the mounting for the plate amp so its not ghetto looking anymore, lol. I cant wait to try it out!


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

The Drake said:


> I currently have a single 12" Dayton Titanic MKIII in a box that was built for my car, 2.8ft^3 tuned to 28Hz with a dayton 500W plate amp powering it and it sounds great, a little ghetto but sounds great. I am getting another box built thats tuned down to 20Hz and Much bigger for it with the mounting for the plate amp so its not ghetto looking anymore, lol. I cant wait to try it out!


cool. that sounds like what i wanna do, but maybe with the 15 with even more power.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2007)

13av.2


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## The Drake (Apr 3, 2007)

tcguy85 said:


> cool. that sounds like what i wanna do, but maybe with the 15 with even more power.


The 12 is pretty darn loud and low, I can only imagine how it will be with the new box. I cant really turn it up loud because the rest of my system cant keep up. But I only have a Onkyo HTIB right now. The room mine is in is about 22x18. I mean the sucker shakes the house so I can only imagine how a 15 would sound. If you can afford it then sure, go for the 15 with more power, but I can tell you that its not necessary unless you have a pretty good system that will be able to keep up.


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## ccdoggy (Jul 2, 2006)

Sorry about taking so long to reply.

Yes my sub is massive, but it is one of the best sounding subs i have ever heard, it rivals the JL F113 my boss has, it dosent blend as well as the jl but its so effortless and smooth and so very strong. If you are willing to have a large box/sonosub there is no question i would go with one of these. also because of price. I built mine for ~$800 and thats with a $250 pro amp that will support another one if i wanted it.

If you are interested take a look at http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/

they have a section for completed projects too.

http://www.ccdoggy.net/temp/P1010121.JPG
http://www.ccdoggy.net/room/IMG_1780.jpg
http://www.ccdoggy.net/room/IMG_1785.jpg

The first pic was a temp setup the others are how i have it now. For size reference the center channel is a Klipsch RC-64. I used a FI Q 15" for the driver.

as usual the camera picks up all the fingerprints and what not. It does look better then that in person as since those pics i have cleaned it up and re-done that inside seam leading to the brushed aluminum.

any questions ask away.


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## tcguy85 (Oct 29, 2007)

The Drake said:


> The 12 is pretty darn loud and low, I can only imagine how it will be with the new box. I cant really turn it up loud because the rest of my system cant keep up. But I only have a Onkyo HTIB right now. The room mine is in is about 22x18. I mean the sucker shakes the house so I can only imagine how a 15 would sound. If you can afford it then sure, go for the 15 with more power, but I can tell you that its not necessary unless you have a pretty good system that will be able to keep up.


ok. maybe i'll do a 12 then. cheaper and smaller.

i have just always used 12" jbl subs, like the ones you'd buy from Best Buy, and they could just never keep up. i have a pretty nice HT setup and i do like to listen to my movies and sometimes music very loud. movies most of the time i play right at the THX reference level(105db for the 5 channels and 115db LFE on peaks), which is pretty damn loud. but i guess if i built a 12 correctly, tuned lower, and had double the power it'd probably be quite a bit better. 

so i guess i could do a 12 titanic tuned around 18-20 with about 500 or so watts. if i do that, how big should the box be and how big of port area? would a 6" round port be enough, or to much?


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## The Drake (Apr 3, 2007)

Not sure about a round port, the one I am getting built will be around 5ft^3 tuned to 20Hz. Slot port, 14.5" x 1.75" x 51.1" according to my builder.


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## Robert_J (Nov 9, 2006)

The Drake said:


> Slot port, 14.5" x 1.75" x 51.1" according to my builder.


 That's the equivalent of a pair of 4" round ports. But 51" is awful long. What's your port's resonant frequency?

-Robert


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