# JBL MS-2 Impressions & pics



## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

This is the new 2 channel auto-tune processor from JBL.

If you are not familiar with it check out the JBL product page:
JBL - MS-2 - NEW A pocket digital processor and automatic equalizer for great car audio sound.

... and the thread...
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-sq-forum-technical-advanced/97677-jbl-ms-2-a.html

I received my MS-2 this morning and had about 3 hours to test it out before it got too hot (the weather, not the unit).

I am in the process of putting together a modest system in my 2011 Mazdaspeed3 with Bose. I am currently using the OEM HU > Navone LOC > JL Audio CL-RLC > Vibe Audio Litebox Stereo4 > HAT Imagine 6.5" fronts & Dayton 10" HO sub

Being at the stage where I am ready to add some processing and since I am only running 2 channels, I decided to give the MS-2 a try.

Physical Specs (measured by me)
Dimensions: 5.24" x 2.88" x .87"
Weight: 3.6oz (102g)

Power wire length: 34"
USB Power length: 9"


As advertised, this thing is very quick and easy to set-up and use.

Power is supplied via 12v adapter and connects to the MS-2 with a 90 deg barrel connector.

The audio chain looks like this: iPhone headphone-out > MS-2 input > MS-2 output > system aux-in

After the connections are made you setup the MS-2 input volume by playing music (I actually used a 0db 1khz sine wave) on your portable device and increasing the phones-out volume to max. The green "IN" light on the MS-2 should stay green, if it flashes red back off the volume until it stops. 

I was able to leave my iPhone 4 at max volume no problem. At this point you should also hear the audio through your system as the MS-2 passes it through.


Calibration is super fast. Hold the unit in front of your face and hold the "SETUP" button until the lights start flashing and the unit will play a quick left and right sweep through your systems speakers. The MS-2 internal microphone picks up the sweeps and after calculating for 4 or 5 seconds all of the green lights come on and the unit is active.

Play music through your iPhone and you will hear the processed output through the system... that's it.


How does it sound? Well that depends on several factors...

I got wildly varying results depending on where I positioned the units mic, how loud the sweeps were played, and how much sub was dialed in... I mean from antique phone thin to pure boomy mud.

So far my most balanced results have come from holding the unit about 8" in front of my face tilted 40 deg forward (mic up). System volume set at 35 (max unclipped vol = 52), and sub gain a little higher than I normally listen at.

I have a bit more experimenting to do before I can comment on the unit's overall effectiveness in my application. I will say that there is a lot of processing power in this little box... you just don't have much control over it.


Other thoughts:
Buttons are nice and "clicky"... good tactile feel.

Wires for power adapter are very thin and seem fragile.

"Defeat" button is really nice... instantly toggle the processing on/off to hear what it's doing.

Very limited adjustments on the unit. It would have been nice to have a bit more range and finer increments.

I lost audio after toggling defeat twice... had to power cycle the MS-2 to restore so it appears to lock-up occasionally. I was doing a bunch of calibrations though... so..

Feel free to ask questions, PICS BELOW


UPDATE
First of all, the manual that comes with the unit is a newer version than the one that is currently available online. The new rev states that the sub filter must be on during calibrations, even if you have a sub. The old one states just the opposite... This makes a difference so go by the new one.

Playing around some more last night and this morning I am now officially impressed with what this thing is capable of.

The instructions state that you should hold the unit directly in front of your face to calibrate. In my vehicle this places the center of the stage too far to the right. After some experimentation I found that moving the unit about six or seven inches to the right to calibrate puts the stage center close to the middle of the dash... MUCH BETTER RESULTS.

I also tried using the line out from the iPhone dock connector instead of the HP out and it works equally well.

This thing is really cool for what it is!


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Thanks for the pics and review. 

Do you think you could try with just the iphone>MS-2>RLC>amps........

See how it performs on the most basic highest quality signal chain. Master volume control from the RLC of course.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Should be easy enough to try that... I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Main post updated.


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## rawdawg (Apr 27, 2007)

How did the MS-2 affect your staging from before? Did you have any problems with the subbass/midbass integration a la MS-8? Have you tried calibration in other seats and does it tune equally as well?


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Thanks for the pics and review.
> 
> Do you think you could try with just the iphone>MS-2>RLC>amps........
> 
> See how it performs on the most basic highest quality signal chain. Master volume control from the RLC of course.


I gave this a try today and it worked very nicely. Amp gain had to be boosted due to lower level input signal but the sound was clean, about the same SQ as going through my system though.


I tried something else cool also. I inserted the MS-2 between my HU outputs and amp, basically where an MS-8 would go in the signal chain... works GREAT! 

Now I can leave my iPhone untethered and stream BT audio through my system and all of my sources get the benefits of the processing. Plus the MS-2 sits neatly in my center console with all wires going to it out of sight.

This is one versatile little box, I'm digging it.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Ganderson said:


> I gave this a try today and it worked very nicely. Amp gain had to be boosted due to lower level input signal but the sound was clean, about the same SQ as going through my system though.


Cool thanks. It also a good thing that it didn't sound MUCH better, since that would mean your head unit was lacking.




Ganderson said:


> I tried something else cool also. I inserted the MS-2 between my HU outputs and amp, basically where an MS-8 would go in the signal chain... works GREAT!
> 
> Now I can leave my iPhone untethered and stream BT audio through my system and all of my sources get the benefits of the processing. Plus the MS-2 sits neatly in my center console with all wires going to it out of sight.
> 
> This is one versatile little box, I'm digging it.


Remember to be mindfull of the volume control and things like tone and EQ from the deck. The MS-2 only has a 1 volt input limit (IIRC) so it could clip easily if the head unit puts out more then that.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

rawdawg said:


> How did the MS-2 affect your staging from before? Did you have any problems with the subbass/midbass integration a la MS-8? Have you tried calibration in other seats and does it tune equally as well?


Since I removed the OEM Bose processing my time alignment has been non-existent so this is a huge improvement. If you hold the unit in the right spot it does an excellent job with staging.

Keep in mind that my Imagines are running coaxially, low in the stock door locations. The MS-2 brings the stage up to dash height nicely.

I have not owned an MS-8 so I have no first hand experience with the midbass issue but I've read a lot on it and I wouldn't say I've noticed that problem. I think the key with the MS-2 is engaging the sub filter and having the sub at the right level when you run the calibration. It takes a little experimentation.

I have tried the front seats in my car and it calibrates both sides equally well. I haven't messed with the back seats yet.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

t3sn4f2 said:


> Remember to be mindfull of the volume control and things like tone and EQ from the deck. The MS-2 only has a 1 volt input limit (IIRC) so it could clip easily if the head unit puts out more then that.


I was concerned about this as well but it sounds fine up loud and the "input" light is supposed to flash red if there is any clipping and I haven't seen red at all. My HU puts out 4.3v at max volume before clipping.


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## asawendo (Nov 22, 2009)

Great Post couldn't wait to try it by myself.....


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

cajunner said:


> this product is looking better and better as the OP runs it through the various ways of implementation.


xx2.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

I've gone back and forth a few times with it into the aux-in vs between HU and amp.

With it between HU and amp the sound seems to be a bit brighter for some reason. Still sounds good but I find myself wanting to cut the highs a hair. It's possible that this is a byproduct of the A2DP streaming though. It also attenuates the signal gain a bit compared to the aux-in method... tweaking the amp gain fixes this.

The main criticism I have of this product so far (besides the frequent lock-ups)would be that it is marketed as a plug and play "make your system sound great instantly" type of product, but it actually requires a fair amount of experimentation to get a good result. The manual is very brief and and gives a step-by-step on how to set it up and that's it... no tips or troubleshooting info on what variables you can adjust to affect/improve your results. I would highly recommend Harman include something like this as some folks who buy this might not be as tweak oriented as myself. If I would have just followed the instructions, it would be going back to crutchfield which would really be short-changing a very cool product.


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## vactor (Oct 27, 2005)

does it have rca outputs?


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## subwoofery (Nov 9, 2008)

cajunner said:


> so basically, it's an auto-tune that needs tweaking to sound it's best.
> 
> that's fantastic! Now we have something to play around with instead of just installing and it is done...
> 
> or, I think most people who buy a product with a 199 price tag that is basically a glorified equalizer, will not make the mistake to send it back because they didn't try to make it work well enough.


For my purpose, it can only be good... 
I'm a flight attendant and am renting cars a lot. Most if not all have crappy Stereos. Now I can have a centered stage in all of them and enjoy music (even if it's not imaging like my car) 

It can only be better than the OEM one  

Kelvin


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

vactor said:


> does it have rca outputs?


No, only 1/8" stereo jack.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

I mentioned in the first post that the unit had locked up on me a couple of times. Unfortunately this has continued over the last day and a half during normal usage.

After going into the grocery store and getting back into the car I had audio but it didn't sound right. The unit was lit up except for the input and sub lights and all buttons were completely unresponsive. Had to power cycle.

Again after the car was off for a few hours I got in and before starting the car or plugging in my iPhone I looked at the unit and it was still on (it's supposed to shut itself down after like 5 minutes). Started the car but it was unresponsive and had to be power cycled again.

I'm pretty bummed that it is this unstable because there is no way that the firmware can be updated that I can tell. I don't mind the occasional lockup with a dsp device but this is a bit much... The only possible deal-breaker for me so far.


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## Wesayso (Jul 20, 2010)

It could be fun to use it between pre-amp and amp in a home setup to auto EQ a home setup. Even time align a less than ideal setup?


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

cajunner said:


> that doesn't sound good.
> 
> maybe it's the heat getting to it?
> 
> ...


I hope it's not the heat because it will basically be useless around here during the summer.

Ive got another cig lighter that does turn off with the car. Guess I'll try that one.

As far a tucking away and mounting, I don't think this unit is suited to that. For one if it locks up like it has been for me you may need to recalibrate... It's quick to do but requires being able to move the whole unit with wires attached. Pressing buttons isn't really an issue because power cycling is the only thing that fixes it for me. Tucking away in a console or glove box with enough wire length to do a quick cal is about as stealth as I would get with this.

You are correct that you wouldn't want the tweets and mids very far apart at all with a component system, that is one of it's limitations with T/A and why you'd want more channels like the MS-8


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Never trust a cigarette lighter port to power a DSP. 

Wire that ***** up like you would any other audio device.


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## montara (Jul 23, 2009)

Willing to try one but can't find any for sale. Wonder if they've been pulled for the lockup issue. No one is giving me a ETA...


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Mine has been pretty stable this whole last week with me just leaving it alone and not calibrating or pushing any buttons.


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## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

sub'd for updates, sounds interesting


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

I've been stuck in China since my last update so my MS-2 sits at the airport all alone.

I did purchase an MS-8 from a forum member though since I left so the MS-2's days in my car are likely numbered.


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## Ganderson (Mar 31, 2011)

Forgot to mention...

My buddy and I tried it out in his new GMC Terrain a couple weeks ago and he was blown away.

I just handed him the unit, he had it hooked up and calibrated in like 1.5 minutes with some coaching and he was like "holy ****... Wtf is this thing" It really smoothed out the sound, blended the bass and broadened the stage in his OEM system.

It was probably more impressive in this application than in my half baked custom system.


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## andy335touring (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks for the update, just got to find how to get one to the UK ?


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## yrmom724 (Oct 8, 2011)

I've been through two units. The first one just stopped working. Now, with the second one, all of the sudden green ok light keeps on blinking and won't calibrate. Also takes a lot of trial and error to get to that sweet spot. I'm returning it. Thoroughly Disappointed.


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## bladest (Mar 12, 2012)

hello i am from bulgaria i recently bought from ebay brand new jbl ms 2 it cant be bought here in bulgaria,
i used the product about 3-4 weeks
its really brand new and good product the problem is today unit doesnt work propertly i mean
when i try to calibrate the unit 
my treble,impact,bass,image doesnt blink and doesnt work i tried setup+impact same :[i study it and i think the problem is this
this thing cant memorize my favourites or something else i dont know
i mean when i make one option for example when i make setup one time i cant do it again
when i enable sub i cant anything else unless i unplug unit from power and power it again but then my sub goes off and the only things that are on are power / and in,i also tried home charger 6v which i used in the past
same result 
please help me
for me is not possible to send this unit to jbl uk or usa since i live in bulgaria and will be very expensive both ways ..........
in bulgaria we dont have dealers and etc so i cant send it to repair in bulgaria so i will really appriacite it if u tell me how to make hard reset i have friends who can open unit and make things if need
please i really need help for hard reset or any reset which will help and solve my problem.
p.s. i forgot to menation that my ok blink........ when i plug jbl to power.


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## hykhleif (Feb 10, 2014)

Ganderson said:


> I gave this a try today and it worked very nicely. Amp gain had to be boosted due to lower level input signal but the sound was clean, about the same SQ as going through my system though.
> 
> 
> I tried something else cool also. I inserted the MS-2 between my HU outputs and amp, basically where an MS-8 would go in the signal chain... works GREAT!
> ...


can you explain to me what cables extra i need to do that and if possible you have pictures as I am not very technical and new to this forum


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

hykhleif said:


> can you explain to me what cables extra i need to do that and if possible you have pictures as I am not very technical and new to this forum


What head unit do you have? What outputs will you use from it (RCA, speaker level, etc.)?


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## hykhleif (Feb 10, 2014)

t3sn4f2 said:


> What head unit do you have? What outputs will you use from it (RCA, speaker level, etc.)?


i have the alpine 134Bt, and 2 amps , 4 k2power speakers, all are active connected

I would like also to know if the effects of the MS2 are really making a difference in sound quality or is it just a gimmick 

I love the idea that I can stream via bleu tooth and enjoy dsp, also I use a DAP called Fiiio x3 many times as it play 192/24 quality


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## Ray21 (Oct 19, 2009)

The MS-2 is a great little unit. I agree that setup is a bit finicky and takes multiple attempts to get "right," but it surely makes a difference in sound quality. 

I've measured before/after when using the MS-2 and it generally provides a nice overall target curve. It gave me a rising response from 200hz - 30hz, flattened between 200hz - 2khz, and sloped the high-end down from 2khz up. Imaging was certainly improved as well.


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## t3sn4f2 (Jan 3, 2007)

hykhleif said:


> i have the alpine 134Bt, and 2 amps , 4 k2power speakers, all are active connected
> 
> I would like also to know if the effects of the MS2 are really making a difference in sound quality or is it just a gimmick
> 
> I love the idea that I can stream via bleu tooth and enjoy dsp, also I use a DAP called Fiiio x3 many times as it play 192/24 quality


The best way to go about it is to find the 1 volt RMS output master volume setting of your head unit and remember it. That'll be the point where the inputs of the ms-2 begin to clip (IIRC). Don't pass that setting on very "loud" non dynamic modern HQ music, or you'll get nasty clipping from the ms-2. You can go beyond that on _very_ dynamic or low recording level tracks. 

After that you _might_ need a line driver since the max output voltage of the ms-2 is that of the input max it can handle. Again, 1 volt IIRC. This way you can have enough gain going into your amps while still having a functional master volume range on your head unit.

You can also find a line driver/preamp with a master volume of it's own and that set the head unit to the max the ms-2 can handle, then use the preamp for volume control. That would be a better way of doing it, but I can't say if the difference would be audible in your system.


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