# Dayton audio dsp?



## rphatdad

Does anyone have any information specs release dates etc on this dsp. Is it a myth or what.


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## PorkCereal

It's been posted on some of the fb groups. The guy gave a few details. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## Vx220

Pics and a bit more info here...

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/5266322-post67.html


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## Bayboy

No myth. They're still working on it, but it is supposed to be released very soon.


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## Ge_off_me

PorkCereal said:


> It's been posted on some of the fb groups. The guy gave a few details.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


You know better than to refer to me as "the guy" 



Bayboy said:


> No myth. They're still working on it, but it is supposed to be released very soon.


This is true, I will release more info as I am allowed


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## naiku

Ge_off_me said:


> This is true, I will release more info as I am allowed


Please make sure to post info here for those of us without FB.


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## HeyWaj10

Subscribing to this thread - interested to see the feedback on this DSP once it's released.


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## Ge_off_me

naiku said:


> Please make sure to post info here for those of us without FB.


Just get Facebook, it makes life and communication easier, hence why I just saw this now


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## PorkCereal

Ge_off_me said:


> You know better than to refer to me as "the guy"
> 
> 
> 
> This is true, I will release more info as I am allowed


Ha, didn't want to direct unwanted attention. Who am i kidding you love the attention 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## Ge_off_me

PorkCereal said:


> Ha, didn't want to direct unwanted attention. Who am i kidding you love the attention
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


That's true


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## slowsedan01

Subbed. Can you share any info on the sampling rate?


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## Ge_off_me

I can give you this so far...

1. Over/under voltage protection
2. Reverse voltage protection
3. Mute circuit and delay
4. High level input impedance: 180 ohms
5. RCA input impedance: ≥20K ohms
6. Frequency response: 20Hz-20KHz
7. Output impedance: <50 ohms
8. Maximum input level: ≥3.2V 1% THD
9. S/N: ≥115dB.
10. REM OUT current: >500mA
11. Operating voltage: 9-17V
12. ADAU1701 SigmaDSP 28-/56 Bit Audio Processor


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## PPI_GUY

There was also a good discussion on this unit (with photos) in the CES thread.


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## MxChris

Ge_off_me said:


> I can give you this so far...
> 
> 1. Over/under voltage protection
> 2. Reverse voltage protection
> 3. Mute circuit and delay
> 4. High level input impedance: 180 ohms
> 5. RCA input impedance: ≥20K ohms
> 6. Frequency response: 20Hz-20KHz
> 7. Output impedance: <50 ohms
> 8. Maximum input level: ≥3.2V 1% THD
> 9. S/N: ≥115dB.
> 10. REM OUT current: >500mA
> 11. Operating voltage: 9-17V
> 12. ADAU1701 SigmaDSP 28-/56 Bit Audio Processor


Will it have LOC? 
Speaker level inputs?
Android or Windows interface?

Thanks!


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## Ge_off_me

MxChris said:


> Will it have LOC?
> Speaker level inputs?
> Android or Windows interface?
> 
> Thanks!


It will have speaker level inputs and an android app, as well as a windows program. The iOS app will come about after the release.


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## Bayboy

Speaker level, LOC, & high level inputs are just different terms for the same thing. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Ge_off_me




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## rphatdad

Does this mean its in stock at parts express.


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## Ge_off_me

rphatdad said:


> Does this mean its in stock at parts express.


Not yet. This is a production sample though, so not much longer!


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## AAAAAAA

Who will sell it in Canada?


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## Ge_off_me

AAAAAAA said:


> Who will sell it in Canada?


Parts Express ships to Canada.


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## stevemk07

Will it have differential balanced inputs?


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## Ge_off_me

stevemk07 said:


> Will it have differential balanced inputs?


No it will not.


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## beerdrnkr

But I just got a MiniDSP 8x12  

This would be perfect for my all Dayton Audio setup I'm working on.


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## GreatLaBroski

beerdrnkr said:


> But I just got a MiniDSP 8x12 <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> This would be perfect for my all Dayton Audio setup I'm working on.


The 8x12 is one hell of a powerful DSP.


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## Hillbilly SQ

GreatLaBroski said:


> The 8x12 is one hell of a powerful DSP.


Agree. Might need to get it cleansed and blessed first though.


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## Ge_off_me

GreatLaBroski said:


> The 8x12 is one hell of a powerful DSP.


If you can get past the noise issues, it's awesome


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## slowsedan01

Ge_off_me said:


>


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## 6262ms3

This is good news. I'm getting a new car this summer and it will be my first DSP build, looks this could be a strong contender on my list of budget DSP's.


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## rimshot

cant wait to get one of these!


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## WilliamS

anyone with an inside track on these. Curious to features and such. Next step for me is DSP


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## Bayboy

WilliamS said:


> anyone with an inside track on these. Curious to features and such. Next step for me is DSP


Ge_off_me would be the man to speak to. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## FLYONWALL9

WilliamS said:


> anyone with an inside track on these. Curious to features and such. Next step for me is DSP


1. Over/under voltage protection
2. Reverse voltage protection
3. Mute circuit and delay
4. High level input impedance: 180 ohms
5. RCA input impedance: ≥20K ohms
6. Frequency response: 20Hz-20KHz
7. Output impedance: <50 ohms
8. Maximum input level: ≥3.2V 1% THD
9. S/N: ≥115dB.
10. REM OUT current: >500mA
11. Operating voltage: 9-17V
12. ADAU1701 SigmaDSP 28-/56 Bit Audio Processor


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## Ge_off_me

I demoed the Dayton DSP for everyone at InDIYana this past weekend. We built these 4-way active towers, dubbed the "Tundras" by me, and powered them via our 12 channel whole home amplifier paired with the Dayton DSP-408, absolutely fantastic sounding, and it impressed a lot of people.


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## WilliamS

I have a feeling a DSP and 6.5's are in my near future.


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## DaveRulz

Ge_off_me, do you have any idea when the DSP-408 will be available? I have been checking daily for quite some time now and have yet to see it on the Parts Express website.


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## Ge_off_me

DaveRulz said:


> Ge_off_me, do you have any idea when the DSP-408 will be available? I have been checking daily for quite some time now and have yet to see it on the Parts Express website.


As I have made mentions of before, we are expecting the shipment to be here end of May.


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## DaveRulz

Thanks Ge_off_me, last I saw said April. Will just sit here and twiddle my thumbs until I can get my hands on one.


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## 89grand

I'm really interested in it, and have held off getting a MiniDSP 6x8 to see if the Dayton brings more to the table than the MiniDSP.


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## soundstreamer

The dsp is up on Parts Express website. It's not available until July.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...nal-processor-for-home-and-car-audio--230-500

I might have missed it but how many different presets can be saved?


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## GreatLaBroski

soundstreamer said:


> The dsp is up on Parts Express website. It's not available until July.
> https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...nal-processor-for-home-and-car-audio--230-500
> 
> I might have missed it but how many different presets can be saved?


The optional (extra cost) controller allows you to switch between 2 presets by pushing and holding in the volume control.


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## soundstreamer

GreatLaBroski said:


> The optional (extra cost) controller allows you to switch between 2 presets by pushing and holding in the volume control.


I think holding in the volume button switches between controlling the volume level and what preset you want selected. I was wondering how many presets can be saved.


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## PPI_GUY

Well, it's "on sale" at $149.90 (remote is $19.80) even though they aren't due until July. I hope the sale stays on until they are actually in-stock. Or maybe they'll accept orders and then ship when stock arrives? 
Very interested.


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## 89grand

Seems like a decent budget option, but I got tired of waiting for it, and bought the MiniDSP c-dsp 6x8, which is a little more expensive, but also seems better and has a track record.


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## GreatLaBroski

soundstreamer said:


> GreatLaBroski said:
> 
> 
> 
> The optional (extra cost) controller allows you to switch between 2 presets by pushing and holding in the volume control.
> 
> 
> 
> I think holding in the volume button switches between controlling the volume level and what preset you want selected. I was wondering how many presets can be saved.
Click to expand...

Yeah it seems to have an indicator light for “mode” that turns on or off depending on which preset you’re using, so that suggests 2 presets.


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## Ge_off_me

There are 6 presets.


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## Ge_off_me

PPI_GUY said:


> Well, it's "on sale" at $149.90 (remote is $19.80) even though they aren't due until July. I hope the sale stays on until they are actually in-stock. Or maybe they'll accept orders and then ship when stock arrives?
> Very interested.


It's not on sale, that is the regular retail price


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## GreatLaBroski

Ge_off_me said:


> There are 6 presets.


Sweet


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## soundstreamer

Ge_off_me said:


> There are 6 presets.


Thanks Geoff! That is more than I was expecting very cool.

This dsp is very promising looking. Hopefully I will get to see yours at the next Parts Express show.


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## POLKAT

Is the Dayton DSP software designed to import Room Eq Wizard filters (text files) easily, or will it be a manual process?


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## Grinder

Very cool! ...and at such a nice price!

I should have known better, but I've been rather disappointed with the high noise floor and low output voltage of the miniDSP 2x4, especially where pro amps and drivers are concerned. 

IDK, but it seems like DSP-408 should be a vast improvement in this regard(?).



BTW, for those who might be wondering about DSP-408 output voltage:

(from DSP-408 Product Q&A, at https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...1457483&PID=6159852&SID=jh3erc287a010zyd0005c)
_



"The RCA output voltage is 3.5V rms. This was specification was set to be added but was somehow missed. Geoff S Staff on May 11, 2018

Click to expand...

_


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## Ge_off_me

POLKAT said:


> Is the Dayton DSP software designed to import Room Eq Wizard filters (text files) easily, or will it be a manual process?


It would be a manual tuning processing.

You live exceptionally close to me, one of these days you should stop by PE and I can possibly give you a demo.


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## POLKAT

Ge_off_me said:


> It would be a manual tuning processing.
> 
> You live exceptionally close to me, one of these days you should stop by PE and I can possibly give you a demo.


That would be awesome. I've already ordered one but would love to see it in action. I'll send you a pm to figure out the best time to do that.


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## criddopher

man its cheap as hell, makes me think what do i need another 21 bands of eq for at this price.


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## WilliamS

Oldish thread but 2 questions came to mind?

1) is the remote necessary or can the Bluetooth app change profiles and volume if needed

2) Any ETA on ios App?


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## wr3nchmonkey

Wow this thing looks really great for the price. I wonder how the noise floor will be?


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## WilliamS

Swift kick to the thread, 

Does the 408 have channel summing as well?


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## SilentWrath

I see that is comes with the plug in AC adapter, does it also come with a plug to wire to 12v in mobile applications? 

Also, do we need to pre-order to guarantee stock or do you think there is plenty coming in to satisfy orders placed after they show as in stock?


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## FLYONWALL9

SilentWrath said:


> I see that is comes with the plug in AC adapter, does it also come with a plug to wire to 12v in mobile applications?


Yes, it comes with both


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## SPLEclipse

The interface software is now available for download. Go here and click on "DSP-408 Windows GUI Download"

Dayton Audio DSP-408 4x8 DSP Digital Signal Processor for Home and Car Audio

The download is a zip file.

Quick points:

-up to 8ms delay per channel (or slightly more than 8ms if using measurements of length)
-gain on each channel with 0.1dB resolution
-10 PEQ bands per channel with 0.1dB gain resolution, Q from 0.404 to 18.03
-the 1st and 10th PEQ bands can be used as a low and high shelf filter respectively
-butterworth, bessel, and L-R xovers 6db/oct to 24db/oct
-all of the 8 outputs can use any of the 4 input channels or combine any combination of input channels


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## metanium

SPLEclipse said:


> The interface software is now available for download. Go here and click on "DSP-408 Windows GUI Download"
> 
> Dayton Audio DSP-408 4x8 DSP Digital Signal Processor for Home and Car Audio


Thanks. Looks pretty intuitive. Especially the Input Mixer functions.


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## SilentWrath

SPLEclipse said:


> -10 PEQ bands per channel with 0.1dB gain resolution, Q from 0.404 to 18.03


I am seeing Q adjustable from 0.404 to 28.85

Software is very simply laid out, intuitive and easy to use.

Hopefully it will run smoothly without a lot of hiccups when connected to the hardware!

I think I'm gonna go pre-order one now.


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## SPLEclipse

SilentWrath said:


> I am seeing Q adjustable from 0.404 to 28.85
> 
> Software is very simply laid out, intuitive and easy to use.
> 
> Hopefully it will run smoothly without a lot of hiccups when connected to the hardware!
> 
> I think I'm gonna go pre-order one now.


I tried it again and you are correct, I don't know why it limited me to 18 earlier. To test the extremes I was just typing in 100 and seeing what it defaulted to.


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## SilentWrath

Well, I've got one on order with the controller and BT dongle.

Hopefully the July 16 date doesn't change!


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## Truthunter

How many presets? I don't see anything on the UI denoting which preset is being worked on or how many available.

Phase shift control; what is the resolution? :edit: nevermind… I see it's only 0 or 180 :/


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## SilentWrath

Truthunter said:


> How many presets?
> 
> Phase shift control; what is the resolution?


6 presets, 0 or 180 degree phase, not sure what is meant by resolution, but it's capable of a bit depth of 24bit and a sampling rate of 48khz


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## minbari

Truthunter said:


> How many presets? I don't see anything on the UI denoting which preset is being worked on or how many available.
> 
> Phase shift control; what is the resolution? :edit: nevermind… *I see it's only 0 or 180 :/*


it also has T/A in 1ms steps. so more than 2 phase settings would be redundant.


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## Holmz

1mS seems like it is somewhat coarse for TA.

(At 44.1 k-Samples, 1/44th mS seems like an easy number... if one just uses # samples to slip)


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## SilentWrath

Holmz said:


> 1mS seems like it is somewhat coarse for TA.
> 
> (At 44.1 k-Samples, 1/44th mS seems like an easy number... if one just uses # samples to slip)


It's not in 1ms steps...it's in 0.0208ms steps.


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## minbari

Holmz said:


> 1mS seems like it is somewhat coarse for TA.
> 
> (At 44.1 k-Samples, 1/44th mS seems like an easy number... if one just uses # samples to slip)


you are right, it was 1 cm steps. either way. if you have tight control on T/A then phase control is redudant.


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## Holmz

minbari said:


> you are right, it was 1 cm steps. either way. if you have tight control on T/A then phase control is redudant.


That 0.02 looks like a sample at 44.1 or 48k.

If one is trying to match some region in the band pass between two speakers, then phase reigns supreme. So I think it is for a different purpose than TA.


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## minbari

Holmz said:


> That 0.02 looks like a sample at 44.1 or 48k.
> 
> If one is trying to match some region in the band pass between two speakers, then phase reigns supreme. So I think it is for a different purpose than TA.


Really no difference. If I phase shift a signal I am simply moving it in time. So a time shift will do the same thing. Just done in different ways

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## SPLEclipse

Rotating phase by shifting time is dependent on wavelength, so it's not the same for every frequency. Adding 1mS to a full bandwidth signal will dramatically shift relative phase at higher frequencies but barely change relative phase at low frequencies. At 20hz, it will result in around 7 degrees of relative change, at 10khz it will result in 10 cycles worth, or 3600 degrees.

So rotating phase can be different than just a time delay to compensate for non equidistant paths.


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## minbari

SPLEclipse said:


> Rotating phase by shifting time is dependent on wavelength, so it's not the same for every frequency. Adding 1mS to a full bandwidth signal will dramatically shift relative phase at higher frequencies but barely change relative phase at low frequencies. At 20hz, it will result in around 7 degrees of relative change, at 10khz it will result in 10 cycles worth, or 3600 degrees.
> 
> So rotating phase can be different than just a time delay to compensate for non equidistant paths.


Good point

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Holmz

minbari said:


> Really no difference. If I phase shift a signal I am simply moving it in time. So a time shift will do the same thing. Just done in different ways


Inverting the phase is not changing anything in the time domain.
And it is conceptually easier to consider TA in the time domain, so it is more than just a tautology... it describes what is happening or what is intended to be happening.

One can also do filtering to impart (or reduce) group delay. Group delay is most often depicted as Time versus frequency... however the concept of phase at "the frequency bin" relates somewhat more to the concept of phase matching... which phase flipping was also provided to help with.

And it is just conceptually easier to keep TA separate from unwrapped phase, even if they can be intermingled. (IMO)


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## minbari

Holmz said:


> Inverting the phase is not changing anything in the time domain.
> And it is conceptually easier to consider TA in the time domain, so it is more than just a tautology... it describes what is happening or what is intended to be happening.
> 
> One can also do filtering to impart (or reduce) group delay. Group delay is most often depicted as Time versus frequency... however the concept of phase at "the frequency bin" relates somewhat more to the concept of phase matching... which phase flipping was also provided to help with.
> 
> And it is just conceptually easier to keep TA separate from unwrapped phase, even if they can be intermingled. (IMO)


Yup. I have conceded the point

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Holmz

minbari said:


> Yup. I have conceded the point.


I wasn't looking for the hand slapping mat 

The DSP stuff is a bit complicated, but ignoring the math - then the concepts are worth sharing and easier to digest.

All the best to you brother.


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## minbari

Ya i was thinking more single dimensionally. At one freq it makes little difference. Across a spectrum it does

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## SilentWrath

Holmz said:


> That 0.02 looks like a sample at 44.1 or 48k.


0.02083333=1/48

Anyone know when the Android app will be available for download?


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## SilentWrath

Just got a tracking number from Parts Express!

Looks like they got some stock earlier than expected.


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## Truthunter

Just ordered one myself… was waiting to see when they would actually start shipping. Hope to have it installed/tuned for SVR


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## minbari

Just ordered mine! My first foray into a DSP

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## SilentWrath

Came in today! 

Build quality on the DSP is outstanding. It feels heavy in the hand, with a nice brushed metal finish on the case. 

The Controller also has a nice metal housing with plastic face plate. The knob has a nice click when depressed and when turned. One complaint I have is there is a slight drag in the rotation for approximately 100 out of 360 degrees. It feels as if there is rubbing due to contact.

I'll call Parts Express tomorrow about addressing this issue.

The Bluetooth module also has a nice finish on the case. It feels like velvety rubber.

Overall I'm very happy and cannot wait to get some time to install everything.

I'll keep this thread updated.


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## karmajack

Sub'd. This may be my foot in the door DSP.


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## SilentWrath

SilentWrath said:


> One complaint I have [about the controller] is there is a slight drag in the rotation for approximately 100 out of 360 degrees. It feels as if there is rubbing due to contact.
> 
> I'll call Parts Express tomorrow about addressing this issue.


Talked to technical support about the issue and they are sending me out a replacement controller. I asked them to put a note to have someone check the knob on the controller before sending it out, and they said they would.

Excellent customer service as expected!


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## Noah Bond

Hey everyone,

Been following this forum for awhile. Figured a good first post for me would be a small unboxing of the DSP-408. My goal for my car's audio right now is to achieve sound quality that is approaching high-end speakers/components at a fraction of the cost, and I felt the DSP-408 _might_ be able to help with that.

The DSP, in its box. Included in the picture also is the remote control and some extra RCA cables I ordered.









The output side of the DSP-408, including gold-plated RCA connectors and the USB bluetooth port for the dongle (I didn't order) that allows for using an Android/iOS app for tuning, as well as bluetooth AptX streaming.









The input/etc side of the DSP. a 12v wiring harness plugin slot, power LED, a switch to choose to turn on the DSP using RCA signal sensing, speaker signal sensing, or a remote wire. Also a 12v barrel jack plugin, USB connector for the PC, and the remote knob plugin.









Everything I'll need plugged into the DSP. The 12v harness has a 12v+ wire+, Remote in and Remote Out, and a Ground wire. The remote knob has two options, mode (for 6 different presets) or volume, goes from 1-66 on the volume. 









Very excited to get this thing installed, just need the time- I've got work in a few hours. Seems like it will be pretty simple to integrate it once I've got the passive crossovers in the front torn out. Loving the build, it feels sturdy, and the brushed metal look is just beautiful. No experience using it yet, but seeing as this is my first DSP I'm not sure how helpful my experiences will be. Right now I'm just planning on using it for time alignment and some basic EQ, because I need to wait to order a UMIK to really take advantage of it...


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## Red Saber

I like the app except for one small thing. I wish you could type in numbers instead of only the slider. Still though it’s a god send


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## JCsAudio

Just got mine in too.


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## JCsAudio

I just did a direct swap with my JL Twk 88 and set everything the same and it sounds really good, unlike the time I did that with a DSR1, and it was way off. The remote is meh and the DSP gets hot after a while. It measured 96 degrees on the case with 74 ambient temp after about 45 minutes of on time. Will have to try the Bluetooth next.


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## Truthunter

V8toilet said:


> I just did a direct swap with my JL Twk 88 and set everything the same and it sounds really good, unlike the time I did that with a DSR1, and it was way off. The remote is meh and the DSP gets hot after a while. It measured 96 degrees on the case with 74 ambient temp after about 45 minutes of on time. Will have to try the Bluetooth next.


Can you tell us if you noticed a difference in the noise floor?


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## JCsAudio

Truthunter said:


> Can you tell us if you noticed a difference in the noise floor?


No noticeable difference in noise floor between the JL Twk and Dayton. Both are silent! Will have to do more testing tomorrow as my kids are in bed and the car is in the garage. Its 10:00 PM here.

The JL software is obviously much better designed and thought out but the Dayton is not bad and easy to set up. I had it up and running in no time. One thing I like about the JL that the Dayton does not appear to have is protection for the tweeters in case you accidentally set something wrong.


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## SilentWrath

Only had time to listen for 5 minutes or so after installation, but I can report no noticeable noise floor in my limited testing as well.

I used a Mercman harness to pull the balanced differential output from the factory TSX headunit, bypassing the factory amplifier. The balanced signal enters a Rockford Fosgate BLD to convert the signal to unbalanced which then is fed to the Dayton DSP.

I used to Bluetooth dongle and Android app to quickly setup the mixer, but didn't mess with eq, crossovers or time alignment at this point. Bluetooth dongle and Android app worked perfect.


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## Red Saber

So far so good. This could be the best thing to happen to mobile audio in a very long time.


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## jahseriah

is there a link for the android app? Mine is coming tomorrow


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## jahseriah

got it... nevermind.


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## P0234

Anyone know if you can use the volume control knob only for selected channels, subs for example?


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## minbari

P0234 said:


> Anyone know if you can use the volume control knob only for selected channels, subs for example?


I asked this on thier site. No you can't. It is only master volume

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## P0234

minbari said:


> I asked this on thier site. No you can't. It is only master volume
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Bummer. Hopefully they'll have an update to the firmware someday.


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## Iamsecond

Well, looking on the App Store there is a general dsp app and a separate sub app with volume control. Not sure how having two apps will be but it looks pretty good


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## Bayboy

It's possible they figured that once you're done with tuning and have set the master volume, there's no need to go back to it. Just use the sub app afterwards

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## minbari

P0234 said:


> Bummer. Hopefully they'll have an update to the firmware someday.


Would be super easy for them to add a tick mark on the output tab for what outputs are effected by the volume knob

I gonna use the bass knob on my LC2i with the input mixer

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## minbari

Iamsecond said:


> Well, looking on the App Store there is a general dsp app and a separate sub app with volume control. Not sure how having two apps will be but it looks pretty good


This app works with the 408?
I looked in the Android app store and don't see a bass only app

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## SilentWrath

minbari said:


> Iamsecond said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, looking on the App Store there is a general dsp app and a separate sub app with volume control. Not sure how having two apps will be but it looks pretty good
> 
> 
> 
> This app works with the 408?
> I looked in the Android app store and don't see a bass only app
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I can't find it in the Play Store either.


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## Ge_off_me

Here ya go!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/..._408&rdid=leon.android.chs_ydw_dcs480_dsp_408


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## SilentWrath

Ge_off_me said:


> Here ya go!
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/..._408&rdid=leon.android.chs_ydw_dcs480_dsp_408


Geoff, we were talking about the subwoofer volume control app someone mentioned above.


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## Ge_off_me

Ahhhh. Yeah, that isn't related to the DSP.


----------



## SilentWrath

Ge_off_me said:


> Ahhhh. Yeah, that isn't related to the DSP.


That's what I figured. No worries, my RUX knob controls sub level easier than an app would.


----------



## WilliamS

minbari said:


> Would be super easy for them to add a tick mark on the output tab for what outputs are effected by the volume knob
> 
> I gonna use the bass knob on my LC2i with the input mixer
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Holy crap thats an amazing idea. That way you can just use it for the rear fills or subwoofers! Base it also on the scene!


----------



## richardar6

Got mine in today and hooked it up. Sounds good, but i haven't completely tuned it yet. Like the app, but I think I'm going to finish with the laptop. Anything that has a slider and no + or - frustrates me. I either go over the number I want, or under it using the slider.

Also, I think either my harness is wired wrong from factory or the DSP is. Using speaker level from my factory head-unit, I connected fronts to channel 1 and 2 and rear to 3 and 4. (no wiring mix up- I used the same wires i had going into my DQ-61). Long story short, input 1 and 2 is controlled on the APP from 3 and 4. Input 3 and 4 is controlled on the APP from 1 and 2.

Another strange thing ( for me anyway) both right and left are reversed. Channel 1, 3, and 6 should be left as manual states (and usually white RCA is left and red is right), channel 2, 4 , and 6, should be right. not on mine. 7 and 8 are my sub channels so it wouldn't matter to me. 

Since I can map everything out, I have everything playing correctly and I don't think it affects sound quality, but I'm not thrilled about it. Just a counter intuitive when I'm tuning and adjusting


----------



## minbari

richardar6 said:


> Got mine in today and hooked it up. Sounds good, but i haven't completely tuned it yet. Like the app, but I think I'm going to finish with the laptop. Anything that has a slider and no + or - frustrates me. I either go over the number I want, or under it using the slider.
> 
> Also, I think either my harness is wired wrong from factory or the DSP is. Using speaker level from my factory head-unit, I connected fronts to channel 1 and 2 and rear to 3 and 4. (no wiring mix up- I used the same wires i had going into my DQ-61). Long story short, input 1 and 2 is controlled on the APP from 3 and 4. Input 3 and 4 is controlled on the APP from 1 and 2.
> 
> Another strange thing ( for me anyway) both right and left are reversed. Channel 1, 3, and 6 should be left as manual states (and usually white RCA is left and red is right), channel 2, 4 , and 6, should be right. not on mine. 7 and 8 are my sub channels so it wouldn't matter to me.
> 
> Since I can map everything out, I have everything playing correctly and I don't think it affects sound quality, but I'm not thrilled about it. Just a counter intuitive when I'm tuning and adjusting


The inputs and outputs are completely configurable. Could you not set them the way you want?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## richardar6

minbari said:


> The inputs and outputs are completely configurable. Could you not set them the way you want?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


As I said, I was able to map everything correctly, but it still means something is reversed inside my unit. If I resell it down the road, having to explain "front is back, back is front, and oh, right is left and left is right, but it's ok because you can reconfigure it", is not going to give the next potential buyer confidence.


----------



## Iamsecond

Sounds like a call to Dayton will help if they realize something is amiss they will rectify the issue. Especially since this is a new product


----------



## SilentWrath

Iamsecond said:


> Sounds like a call to Dayton will help if they realize something is amiss they will rectify the issue. Especially since this is a new product


Definitely call.


----------



## minbari

richardar6 said:


> As I said, I was able to map everything correctly, but it still means something is reversed inside my unit. If I resell it down the road, having to explain "front is back, back is front, and oh, right is left and left is right, but it's ok because you can reconfigure it", is not going to give the next potential buyer confidence.


Ah. Got ya. Willing to bet the RCAs are connectorized. They simply reversed them when they installed it. Hopefully they reversed them uniformly.
I would prolly ask Dayton to replace it.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## richardar6

I noticed this morning the dreaded alternator whine when volume at zero. Going to check grounds and RCA's. I've had many different configurations (high level straight into amp, LC2i, DQ-61, different amps), but I've never had any noise issues. I'm going to stay optimistic for now and hope it's a simple loose ground fix. If not, I'm going to have to return it because it's a deal breaker if I can't get rid of the whine. (twice as loud when the power steering motor kicks in).


----------



## SilentWrath

I think you got a dud unit. I'd call PE and have them exchange it for you.


----------



## Ge_off_me

richardar6 said:


> I noticed this morning the dreaded alternator whine when volume at zero. Going to check grounds and RCA's. I've had many different configurations (high level straight into amp, LC2i, DQ-61, different amps), but I've never had any noise issues. I'm going to stay optimistic for now and hope it's a simple loose ground fix. If not, I'm going to have to return it because it's a deal breaker if I can't get rid of the whine. (twice as loud when the power steering motor kicks in).


I'd say more than likely something else is going on, as I've installed this in multiple vehicles and had no issues. I do have a history of noise and whine in my vehicle, and I didn't have any issues at all.


----------



## richardar6

I'm working know, but I'm going triple check everything when I get home. I'm 99.9 percent sure front and rear channels are wired correctly because it's the same configuration I've used since 2015 (LC2i used my front channel because of navigation voice).

Here is the other issue. Channel 1 and 2 input volume controls rear speakers(fine, I can deal with it), but switch it to streaming, and channel 1 and 2 input are now controlling front SPEAKERS. 

This makes it sound like I wired my line input wrong, but like I said, 99.9% sure it's correct. When I get home, I'm going to disconnect left front and wire it directly to a speaker. Also going to check low level inputs just for giggles. Also, I'm 100% sure I didn't mix left and right up so the fact that those are reversed makes me think its the DSP


----------



## Noah Bond

I'm enjoying using the DSP-408 so far. Only had 3 days with it but it is, in my opinion, the perfect budget DSP for someone wanting to go active 3-way with TA and a subwoofer channel. The things that I want to see added in a firmware update are volume-dependent EQ using the volume/preset knob accessory, and a L-R rear fill option.

More time delay, a USB mic connection, and center channel processing would all be _great_, but that'll probably need to wait for another revision.

I'm considering ditching my head unit and just using the bluetooth dongle and the volume/preset knob. Can anyone think of a reason I shouldn't do this? Would make the car probably a little less appealing to break into from the outside as well as enable me to skip the transition from bluetooth to head unit rca back to digital at the dsp.


----------



## richardar6

Noah Bond said:


> I'm enjoying using the DSP-408 so far. Only had 3 days with it but it is, in my opinion, the perfect budget DSP for someone wanting to go active 3-way with TA and a subwoofer channel. The things that I want to see added in a firmware update are volume-dependent EQ using the volume/preset knob accessory, and a L-R rear fill option.
> 
> More time delay, a USB mic connection, and center channel processing would all be _great_, but that'll probably need to wait for another revision.
> 
> I'm considering ditching my head unit and just using the bluetooth dongle and the volume/preset knob. Can anyone think of a reason I shouldn't do this? Would make the car probably a little less appealing to break into from the outside as well as enable me to skip the transition from bluetooth to head unit rca back to digital at the dsp.


I actually love it (problems and all). I would like to see a truly one touch preset selection, a sub level control function on the wired remote or at least a shortcut added to the app. Also would like to be able to use landscape in the app. But I'm not knocking any of it because not only did it just come out and improvements will follow, but it really is a steal at $149.00. Seriously, for DSP beginners and people that want above average control of their gear--but want to keep it simple, you can't go wrong for the price and performance. I hope these fly off the shelves and put other manufactures on notice.


----------



## SunDragon

Novice question here. Looking to pick up my first DSP and saw this question on the Dayton product page. Could someone explain what this means? How does the lack of REW integration affect usability/functionality compared to other DSPs?



> Does it support advanced EQ (aka REW)?
> 
> BEST ANSWER: No, you cannot import files from REW. You can, however, utilize REW as a tool and it will still provide you with valuable feedback.


----------



## JCsAudio

SunDragon said:


> Novice question here. Looking to pick up my first DSP and saw this question on the Dayton product page. Could someone explain what this means? How does the lack of REW integration affect usability/functionality compared to other DSPs?


It doesn’t, it just means that if you want to use the auto EQ feature in REW that you have to use the generic tab and manually enter the frequency, Q, and trim or boost into the DSP yourself. With a Mini DSP for example, REW can automatically load this into the DSP for you. Doing this manually though is so easy a monkey could do it.


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## Pb82 Ronin

So I'm interested...but I guess I'm a noob. Can someone explain how to use a single port RCA input from the HU? Most RCAs (or at least the ones I'm familiar with) are paired connectors. They have 2 plugs per cable. Am I correct in thinking that you'll have to run a 2 into 1 RCA to hook up individual speakers? I just need clarification on how the damn install would go. The tuning and stuff I got...

What cables would I need to buy? How would the hook up? HU to amp to DSP to speaker? HU to DSP to amp to speaker? Damn, I'm a noob.


----------



## SunDragon

V8toilet said:


> It doesn’t, it just means that if you want to use the auto EQ feature in REW that you have to use the generic tab and manually enter the frequency, Q, and trim or boost into the DSP yourself. With a Mini DSP for example, REW can automatically load this into the DSP for you. Doing this manually though is so easy a monkey could do it.


Great! Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on anything.


----------



## rton20s

Pb82 Ronin said:


> So I'm interested...but I guess I'm a noob. Can someone explain how to use a single port RCA input from the HU? Most RCAs (or at least the ones I'm familiar with) are paired connectors. They have 2 plugs per cable. Am I correct in thinking that you'll have to run a 2 into 1 RCA to hook up individual speakers? I just need clarification on how the damn install would go. The tuning and stuff I got...
> 
> What cables would I need to buy? How would the hook up? HU to amp to DSP to speaker? HU to DSP to amp to speaker? Damn, I'm a noob.


If you are using a source with RCA connections to feed the DSP, you will need at least two channels of RCAs. One each for left and right. More can be used (if needed) for rear or subwoofer, but aren't necessary if you have a full range signal on the first pair. 

HU > 2-4 CH RCA > DSP > 2-8 CH RCA > AMPLIFIER(S) > SPEAKER CABLE > SPEAKERS


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## minbari

got mine today! yay! gonna get it installed tommrow I hope.


----------



## Hulk2015

Noob question:

How exactly do I install this into a stock HU? I recently bought a Kenwood marine HU and planned on installing it in my trunk but I'm thinking of maybe going with the Dayton DSP but have no idea how to install or configure it.


----------



## minbari

Hulk2015 said:


> Noob question:
> 
> How exactly do I install this into a stock HU? I recently bought a Kenwood marine HU and planned on installing it in my trunk but I'm thinking of maybe going with the Dayton DSP but have no idea how to install or configure it.


If the hu has RCA outputs then use those. Otherwise the DSP has high level inputs too

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## richardar6

The more I tune it, the better it sounds. I've rechecked my wiring, repositioned some paths, checked my RCA's, but still whines when powersteering kicks in. Accelerator doesn't affect it. I will say it's not as bad as it was (either that or my hearing is bad after a few hours of blasting it). 

I'm thinking of directly grounding to the battery (it's 3 feet away under the passenger seat). Anyone think this is a bad idea? Will it help? I have my 2 main amps grounded there already with no noise. 3rd amp is farther away and grounded to the body, but I'm in the process of wiring it to my mids to go active and haven't finished yet. 12 hour work shifts limit my time.


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## Pb82 Ronin

rton20s said:


> If you are using a source with RCA connections to feed the DSP, you will need at least two channels of RCAs. One each for left and right. More can be used (if needed) for rear or subwoofer, but aren't necessary if you have a full range signal on the first pair.
> 
> HU > 2-4 CH RCA > DSP > 2-8 CH RCA > AMPLIFIER(S) > SPEAKER CABLE > SPEAKERS


So I currently have 6 RCA jacks. Front channel L/R, Rear channel L/R, and sub L/R. How would these six plug into a DSP with only 4 RCA inputs?


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## SilentWrath

You hook up either front and rear RCAs or front and sub RCAs.

You still have 8 output channels to use. I'd suggest downloading the software and seeing how the input/output mixer works.


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## minbari

Pb82 Ronin said:


> So I currently have 6 RCA jacks. Front channel L/R, Rear channel L/R, and sub L/R. How would these six plug into a DSP with only 4 RCA inputs?


You can use input 1 and 2 for all of the ouputs or use 1-2 for front and rear and 3-4 inputs for sub. It can be mapped any way you like

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## minbari

so I spent about 2 hours tuning it today. I replicated the EQ settings (roughly) from the PG 215 I had in there, so it was somewhat already close.

the noise floor as others mentioned is damn near silent as long as you dont push the 16khz slider too far  

it sounds really nice and I like the fact that I can tune things in real time from the drivers seat! an experience I have never had, since all my gear is ussualy behind me. 

my only gripe, and its a minor one, is that the PG EQ215 has 9volt outputs and this only has 3.5volt. so I had to restructure my gain setup. but once I got that set up, it sounds fantastic and gets just as loud as before.

I have also never had T/A before, so not exactly sure if I got it right or not. I used the measure tape methode and got close (I think) I had to reduce it about 6 inches so it didn't sound like it was comes all from the right side of the vehicle. I assume that means I had too much delay.


----------



## Pb82 Ronin

minbari said:


> You can use input 1 and 2 for all of the ouputs or use 1-2 for front and rear and 3-4 inputs for sub. It can be mapped any way you like
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I guess I don't understand how that works. Would you need single plug RCA's?


----------



## minbari

Pb82 Ronin said:


> I guess I don't understand how that works. Would you need single plug RCA's?


what is a single plug RCA?

as an example

input 1 = main left
input 2 = main right
input 3 = bass left
input 4 = bass right

every RCA has left and right. Then you just tell the DSP what outputs correspond to which inputs.

so, 
output 1 = front left
output 2 = front right
output 3 = rear left
output 4 = rear right
output 5 = bass left
output 6 = bass right
output 7 = none
output 8 = none


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## Pb82 Ronin

minbari said:


> what is a single plug RCA?
> 
> as an example
> 
> input 1 = main left
> input 2 = main right
> input 3 = bass left
> input 4 = bass right
> 
> every RCA has left and right. Then you just tell the DSP what outputs correspond to which inputs.
> 
> so,
> output 1 = front left
> output 2 = front right
> output 3 = rear left
> output 4 = rear right
> output 5 = bass left
> output 6 = bass right
> output 7 = none
> output 8 = none


Single plug RCA:
https://www.showmecables.com/by-cat...rca/professional-grade-single-rca-audio-cable

I guess what I'm saying is that how can the DSP differentiate rear signal and front signal from the HU if the rear channel isn't plugged in? It's basically taking the input from the fronts/sub and distributing it through the outputs. But it's not a "dedicated rear signal input" from the HU that it's sending out. Seems like unless you get a true 6 point input (Front/Rear/Sub) you'll just have to ensure your inputs are all full range and flat so the DSP can do it's thing.


----------



## minbari

Pb82 Ronin said:


> Single plug RCA:
> https://www.showmecables.com/by-cat...rca/professional-grade-single-rca-audio-cable
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is that how can the DSP differentiate rear signal and front signal from the HU if the rear channel isn't plugged in? It's basically taking the input from the fronts/sub and distributing it through the outputs. But it's not a "dedicated rear signal input" from the HU that it's sending out. Seems like unless you get a true 6 point input (Front/Rear/Sub) you'll just have to ensure your inputs are all full range and flat so the DSP can do it's thing.


Exactly right. It couldn't. You wouldn't be able to have front/rear inputs unless you configured it that way.
Then you could get sub info by summing all the inputs for the sub outs

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## openglcg

Is there a way to get peak filter q less than .404?


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## minbari

openglcg said:


> Is there a way to get peak filter q less than .404?


No. That is pretty damn steep the way it is

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## rton20s

minbari said:


> No. That is pretty damn steep the way it is
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I think you mean wide/shallow. But, I agree. 

On a side note, with careful use of the slider in the iOS app on an iPhone X, the narrowest Q I could get was 12.019.


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## SilentWrath

rton20s said:


> On a side note, with careful use of the slider in the iOS app on an iPhone X, the narrowest Q I could get was 12.019.


Huh, on Android app it goes from 0.404 to 28.852 easily.


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## rton20s

SilentWrath said:


> Huh, on Android app it goes from 0.404 to 28.852 easily.


The slider literally goes off the edge of the screen on an iPhone X. I suspect they may have some scaling issues with the app. Not sure. I guess I should download it on one of my iPads to see how it scales there.


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## Theslaking

minbari said:


> I have also never had T/A before, so not exactly sure if I got it right or not. I used the measure tape methode and got close (I think) I had to reduce it about 6 inches so it didn't sound like it was comes all from the right side of the vehicle. I assume that means I had too much delay.


Don't add delay to move the sound. Use the tape measure. Either do the math or use a delay calculator like tracerite.com/calc.html. Science and math don't lie. 

You can lower the levels amongst other things to move it around. I spent countless wasted hours trying to get it better before I figured that out.

Andy W has a good read on TA on here.


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## richardar6

What's the difference between grouping and linking? 

Also, if I set the input mixer to combine all channels to the sub (so it becomes non fading) will that overload the channels I'm using for my sub? Sorry, my 1st DSP also. Thanks.

I'm using 1 and 2 front components 
3 and 4- active midrangs
5 and 6- rear components 
7 and 8- mono sub


----------



## minbari

richardar6 said:


> What's the difference between grouping and linking?
> 
> Also, if I set the input mixer to combine all channels to the sub (so it becomes non fading) will that overload the channels I'm using for my sub? Sorry, my 1st DSP also. Thanks.
> 
> I'm using 1 and 2 front components
> 3 and 4- active midrangs
> 5 and 6- rear components
> 7 and 8- mono sub


Its all the same. They just call it two different things for some reason. In the pc software it is called "link" in the Android app it's called "group"

No it won't. It will just sum all the inputs together.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Pb82 Ronin

Another noob wiring question. Couldn't you use an interconnect like this: https://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/accessories/item/rca-y-adapter-interconnect on the DSP?

1 for each input? Like front component, front active midrange, rear channel, and sub channel? Four inputs, 8 outputs?


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## minbari

Pb82 Ronin said:


> Another noob wiring question. Couldn't you use an interconnect like this: https://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/accessories/item/rca-y-adapter-interconnect on the DSP?
> 
> 1 for each input? Like front component, front active midrange, rear channel, and sub channel? Four inputs, 8 outputs?


You can't use y adapters on inputs. You will damage the output on the other end.
You can y-adapt the outputs as long as you understand the output will be the same content

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Truthunter

Pb82 Ronin said:


> Another noob wiring question. Couldn't you use an interconnect like this: https://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/accessories/item/rca-y-adapter-interconnect on the DSP?
> 
> 1 for each input? Like front component, front active midrange, rear channel, and sub channel? Four inputs, 8 outputs?


Not sure what your trying to ask or accomplish but maybe this will help:

Each RCA plug end is a single channel.

Front outputs on head units have 2 RCA plugs for 2 channels: 1 Left & 1 Right
Same thing for the Rear & Sub outputs for a total of 6 RCA plugs / 6 channels.

You will only be able to feed this DSP 4 of those. No need for splitters or Y-adapters like you have linked.


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## Pb82 Ronin

Thanks guys. Makes sense. DSPs are new to me for sure.


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## minbari

^^^^^
This DSP does have 8 channel out

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## minbari

Theslaking said:


> Don't add delay to move the sound. Use the tape measure. Either do the math or use a delay calculator like tracerite.com/calc.html. Science and math don't lie.
> 
> You can lower the levels amongst other things to move it around. I spent countless wasted hours trying to get it better before I figured that out.
> 
> Andy W has a good read on TA on here.


So i went and read the articles that Andy wrote about it. Went and redid my t/a based on what he said. What a huge difference! Sure I will still have to find tune some more. But bass is better, imaging is way better. Close your eyes and you can't tell where it comes from.

Thanks for the tip

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Pb82 Ronin

minbari said:


> So i went and read the articles that Andy wrote about it. Went and redid my t/a based on what he said. What a huge difference! Sure I will still have to find tune some more. But bass is better, imaging is way better. Close your eyes and you can't tell where it comes from.
> 
> Thanks for the tip
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Link to article???


----------



## minbari

Pb82 Ronin said:


> Link to article???


https://www.audiofrog.com/community/tech-tips/time-alignment-part-one/


5 parts

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Theslaking

Yep no problem. I've had TA since probably 94. I had them old fancy Eclipse setups. I had been doing it wrong (just like you) until about 2012. At that I learned how to use levels and crossovers to help placement. Then last year, iirc, I participated in a thread in which Andy either explained or referenced his thoughts, reasons, and methods. What a difference.


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## bbfoto

Does the DSP retain the last tune or preset settings in memory if 12v power is removed or disconnected?


----------



## minbari

bbfoto said:


> Does the DSP retain the last tune or preset settings in memory if 12v power is removed or disconnected?


Haven't tested that. I would think it would. You do have the option of saving tune preset in PC file

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## bbfoto

minbari said:


> Haven't tested that. I would think it would. You do have the option of saving tune preset in PC file.


Thanks. Curious if you can save a "tune" file to directly to Android as well with the app? (Android has a standard file/folder system just like a PC.)

I like having a "valet mode" as well.


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## minbari

bbfoto said:


> Thanks. Curious if you can save a "tune" file to directly to Android as well with the app? (Android has a standard file/folder system just like a PC.)


From what I have seen no. The app doesn't save a preset to a file. Only the pc version

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## AlexSells11779

2nd DSP after the MS8, which I never really played with outside of the Auto Tune. Hoping this thing is legit


----------



## bbfoto

AlexSells11779 said:


> 2nd DSP after the MS8, which I never really played with outside of the Auto Tune. Hoping this thing is legit


Welcome to DIYMA and this disease called "car audio"! 

Good luck with the new DSP. Though there is no Center Channel or surround processing, the Dayton DSP should give you plenty of control to achieve great stereo sound. Just follow the tuning guides that were mentioned here and the others throughout the site.


----------



## Red Saber

I’ve used the Bit one for a few seasons. MS-8 currently for a few seasons. 
Now looking forward to legit opinions on this one for the next.


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## minbari

Red Saber said:


> I’ve used the Bit one for a few seasons. MS-8 currently for a few seasons.
> Now looking forward to legit opinions on this one for the next.


Performance wise I am not disappointed. Sounds nice, very flexible to setup.

The app has a couple of clunky things in it that could be fixed.
The input mixer only has sliders, so moving it 5 clicks is an exercise in patience, could definitely benefit from + and - buttons. The. T/A tab has + and - buttons but they take about 10 tries to get the app to decide you hit it. (Buttons too small)
It would be nice to just have text boxes to enter numbers along with the sliders.
All of that aside the app connects easily, is stable and does what it says

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ge_off_me

Thanks for all the great feedback guys!

We are starting to work on updates for this app now.

If there are any other changes you would like to see regarding the app now, please let me know.


----------



## minbari

Ge_off_me said:


> Thanks for all the great feedback guys!
> 
> We are starting to work on updates for this app now.
> 
> If there are any other changes you would like to see regarding the app now, please let me know.


The only thing that really frustrates me with it so far is that + and - buttons are missing from the mixer tab and they are way to small to hit where they do exist

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ge_off_me

minbari said:


> The only thing that really frustrates me with it so far is that + and - buttons are missing from the mixer tab and they are way to small to hit where they do exist
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Already on the list


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## Red Saber

Yeah. Being able to type in numbers please. Every where


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## Ge_off_me

Red Saber said:


> Yeah. Being able to type in numbers please. Every where


A phone screen is only so big.


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## minbari

Ge_off_me said:


> A phone screen is only so big.


I agree. This would be tough to add (the pc version does have this capability)

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

bbfoto said:


> Does the DSP retain the last tune or preset settings in memory if 12v power is removed or disconnected?


Yes, I tuned mine in my house with the 12 volt power supply, disconnected it, and installed it in the car, and it held the tune. You have to save the preset though for it to do that.


----------



## Pb82 Ronin

V8toilet said:


> Yes, I tuned mine in my house with the 12 volt power supply, disconnected it, and installed it in the car, and it held the tune. You have to save the preset though for it to do that.


So how have you liked it thus far? Worth the purchase?


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## SilentWrath

This thing is a steal at $149 shipped.

It works great for what it is, and it's dead silent with proper gain structure in my application.

Especially if they release updates with customer feedback being taken into consideration.

If you have a much larger budget you could get more features with a different unit, but this is perfect for a lot of people.


----------



## JCsAudio

Pb82 Ronin said:


> So how have you liked it thus far? Worth the purchase?


Yes I like it, its not going to replace my two JL Twk 88's though. If you are just starting out with a DSP than the JL is better suited for that with its more user friendly software and three stages of expertise. A novice has to be careful tuning with this Dayton DSP because if they accidentally send a full range signal to a tweeter than they could blow that tweeter pretty easily. With the JL, it mutes the sound whenever you make big changes that could damage a speaker as a fail safe feature, which is nice. That feature has saved me at least once. Its very well thought out by JL. I will play around with it this weekend some more and try and verify some of the issues that some of the others here have posted. Maybe I can get a youtube video of it up too.


----------



## ckirocz28

richardar6 said:


> Anything that has a slider and no + or - frustrates me. I either go over the number I want, or under it using the slider.


I have no experience with this unit but, generally, if you click on the slider, you should be able to use the arrow keys for fine adjustments (on a laptop).

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


----------



## minbari

ckirocz28 said:


> I have no experience with this unit but, generally, if you click on the slider, you should be able to use the arrow keys for fine adjustments (on a laptop).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


This is on an android app

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## bbfoto

Ge_off_me said:


> A phone screen is only so big.





minbari said:


> I agree. This would be tough to add (the pc version does have this capability)


7"-10" Android tablets are cheap and plentiful. I definitely would not want to do a full tune from scratch on a smartphone screen!


----------



## bbfoto

minbari said:


> This is on an android app.


With a Samsung Galaxy Note smartphone, using the S-pen stylus it works quite well, actually. The S-pen acts like a regular mouse, with hovering activation, drop-down menus, and a side "click" button, etc.

It's one of the main reasons I've stuck with the Galaxy Note series of smartphones & tablets. I also have to sign a lot of contracts and NDA's in my business, mostly using PDF forms. I don't use the S-pen stylus every day, but when I need it, it's pretty awesome.

Also if you double-tap the entry field, it temporarily enlarges or magnifies it so you can make a precise selection or adjustment.


----------



## dcfis

Nice



bbfoto said:


> minbari said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is on an android app.
> 
> 
> 
> With a Samsung Galaxy Note smartphone, using the S-pen stylus it works quite well, actually. The S-pen acts like a regular mouse, with hovering activation, drop-down menus, and a side "click" button, etc.
> 
> It's one of the main reasons I've stuck with the Galaxy Note series of smartphones & tablets. I also have to sign a lot of contracts and NDA's in my business, mostly using PDF forms. I don't use the S-pen stylus every day, but when I need it, it's pretty awesome.
> 
> Also if you double-tap the entry field, it temporarily enlarges or magnifies it so you can make a precise selection or adjustment. <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...


----------



## richardar6

On the Eq page of the app, if you tap on the number next to the horizontal frequency slider, you'll get another slider that has + and - adjustments. If the input mixer could do the same thing, it would be great and solve any space issues.

I'd like to request again to have one-touch preset buttons. No save/recall/cancel after touching preset. Makes it easier when driving. I've already accidentally hit the wrong icon when on a bumpy road. Hit save instead of recall.


----------



## Ge_off_me

richardar6 said:


> On the Eq page of the app, if you tap on the number next to the horizontal frequency slider, you'll get another slider that has + and - adjustments. If the input mixer could do the same thing, it would be great and solve any space issues.
> 
> I'd like to request again to have one-touch preset buttons. No save/recall/cancel after touching preset. Makes it easier when driving. I've already accidentally hit the wrong icon when on a bumpy road. Hit save instead of recall.


I wouldn't recommend using the app while driving.

Having the option to save a tune as well as recall one on the main page is a nice feature in my eyes.


----------



## Whiterabbit

Asked a question on the PE site, no answer.

I want to know if I can mix high and low level inputs. Use lows for 1 and 2, highs for 3 and 4. 

And set the turn-on to "highs".


----------



## Ge_off_me

Whiterabbit said:


> Asked a question on the PE site, no answer.
> 
> I want to know if I can mix high and low level inputs. Use lows for 1 and 2, highs for 3 and 4.
> 
> And set the turn-on to "highs".


I'm not sure when you asked your question, but I didn't see it this morning when I made my rounds online.

As far as your question goes, I'm not entirely sure, as that's not something we ever felt the need to check. 

I could probably look into, but it might be a few days until I can make that happen, as I'm a bit swamped.


----------



## Mitchc1113

I currently am using an Audiocontrol LC2i to give signal to my amps. My question is would it be worth it to keep the LC2i installed and use with the Dayton DSP or just use the Dayton?

I know the Dayton accepts high level inputs but I'm wondering if the LC2i would be at all beneficial to keep in place? Would sending 2 low level RCA signals from LC2i (Main- Highs, Full range) & (Bass- Sub, low frequency) that also have a higher voltage from the LC2i be better than just using the high level inputs and bypassing the LC2i and just using the Dayton.


----------



## rton20s

I see no reason to keep the LC2i in place.


----------



## minbari

Mitchc1113 said:


> I currently am using an Audiocontrol LC2i to give signal to my amps. My question is would it be worth it to keep the LC2i installed and use with the Dayton DSP or just use the Dayton?
> 
> I know the Dayton accepts high level inputs but I'm wondering if the LC2i would be at all beneficial to keep in place? Would sending 2 low level RCA signals from LC2i (Main- Highs, Full range) & (Bass- Sub, low frequency) that also have a higher voltage from the LC2i be better than just using the high level inputs and bypassing the LC2i and just using the Dayton.


If you have the remote level knob for bass. Then keep it. That is how mine is setup. Main into dsp 1,2. Sub into dsp 3,4.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## P0234

rton20s said:


> I see no reason to keep the LC2i in place.


Unless he wants to have a sub adjustment knob. Sure wish the dayton could do that simple task.


----------



## Ge_off_me

P0234 said:


> Unless he wants to have a sub adjustment knob. Sure wish the dayton could do that simple task.


By all means, find some space in the app for it, and then do all the coding yourself, how does that sound?

You say it's a simple task, but there so much more to it than you understand.


----------



## P0234

Ge_off_me said:


> By all means, find some space in the app for it, and then do all the coding yourself, how does that sound?
> 
> You say it's a simple task, but there so much more to it than you understand.


Sounds great. I'm a software engineer so send me the source and I'll look at it. PM me for my email address.


----------



## Ge_off_me

P0234 said:


> Sounds great. I'm a software engineer so send me the source and I'll look at it. PM me for my email address.


Great, ready to do it for free?


----------



## minbari

:snacks:

this is getting good


----------



## Denslayer

So looking at the specs it says Maximum input level: ≥3.2V 1% THD. Most head units are from 4-6 v. So If i get a newer kenwood w/ 5 v will this cause problems?


----------



## minbari

Denslayer said:


> So looking at the specs it says Maximum input level: ≥3.2V 1% THD. Most head units are from 4-6 v. So If i get a newer kenwood w/ 5 v will this cause problems?


doubt it. The LC2i I use to feed the DSP has 9 volt outputs.


----------



## Gramps

So.....
Are these actually for real??
I mean, they seem really cheap, lol, and i love cheap, but not cheap and don’t last long nasty cheap..
I am doing a old school build but I’m nearly leaning on “hiding” one of these in the boot somewhere, lol, i do have an older alpine ERA G100, but that’s more of a graphic equaliser and no T/A, but I’m thinking for the price this dsp would be way more easier to setup, especially since my old H/U has a dot matrix screen and only 1 line of txt, 
Also, has any 1 used the iOS app yet??
Cheers, krem


----------



## minbari

Gramps said:


> So.....
> Are these actually for real??
> I mean, they seem really cheap, lol, and i love cheap, but not cheap and don’t last long nasty cheap..
> I am doing a old school build but I’m nearly leaning on “hiding” one of these in the boot somewhere, lol, i do have an older alpine ERA G100, but that’s more of a graphic equaliser and no T/A, but I’m thinking for the price this dsp would be way more easier to setup, especially since my old H/U has a dot matrix screen and only 1 line of txt,
> Also, has any 1 used the iOS app yet??
> Cheers, krem


Been using mine for over a week now. Loveing it. Clean signals and easy to use

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## openglcg

Denslayer said:


> So looking at the specs it says Maximum input level: ≥3.2V 1% THD. Most head units are from 4-6 v. So If i get a newer kenwood w/ 5 v will this cause problems?


Hook distortion detector or oscope up to dsp outputs. You should be able to test your headunit THROUGH the dsp to find what volume is optimal as a max volume because when you go over that you will see distortion. You will also have to play with output volume on the dsp to make sure its not the combined input and output threshold. Then you find the dsps max output volume with the headunits optimal volume. Then you use those volumes to find amp output volume. Then if you want to use positive eq you will want to trim the gain by the same ammount.


----------



## P0234

Ge_off_me said:


> Great, ready to do it for free?


Yep, sounds good. If a DSP and accessories fall out of the back of a truck and roll down the hill to VA, even better. I'll need the full build environment/project files for the DSP first. The apps can come later after I work out a way to actually set fixed volumes in the DSP.


----------



## OneGun

P0234 said:


> Yep, sounds good. If a DSP and accessories fall out of the back of a truck and roll down the hill to VA, even better. I'll need the full build environment/project files for the DSP first. The apps can come later after I work out a way to actually set fixed volumes in the DSP.


Repped for stepping up to the offer. 

Dude needs to hook you up if you do the work too. 


On a side note, if I were a representative of any seller/merchant and posted in this forum, I'd want to make sure my attitude wasn't offputting/arrogant/etc... I'd want to be a positive representative of my company. 

Not saying anyone did that... just say'n... if...


----------



## kanadian-kaos

I may stick one of these* in front *of my Audio Control DQXS EQ/xover. Only thing I would lose is the time alignment between my tweeters and mids but time alignment to mids is more important than tweets anyways, so I would use the mids as the measurement.

Plan is, four rca's into the DSP-408 (FR/RR), six out of the DSP-408 into my DQXS (FR/RR/SUB), then use my DQXS as the active crossover and EQ (HI/LO/RR/SUB).

That way I retain the DQXS 31bands of EQ, line driver (7.5v) and gain the DSP 408's time alignment, more parametric EQ, phase adjustment and shelf EQ.

Why not just ditch the DQXS? I would lose lots of EQ ability and the line driver.

I had a similar set up in the past with an Eclipse 8445 deck and it worked well.


----------



## Whiterabbit

Ge_off_me said:


> I'm not sure when you asked your question, but I didn't see it this morning when I made my rounds online.
> 
> As far as your question goes, I'm not entirely sure, as that's not something we ever felt the need to check.
> 
> I could probably look into, but it might be a few days until I can make that happen, as I'm a bit swamped.


Thank you sir. I have come to like the way cars keep the music running until a door is opened. That goes away with processors that need to tap an REM or IGN wire and cannot signal sense. It is an advantage to the dayton, if it can work that way.


----------



## BillC

So for 150 bucks. Anyone have a review or comparison write up yet? Gosh it's tempting to just buy it and have it for future projects. Doubt the introductory price will stay this low for long


----------



## Mitchc1113

I have a question about volume. I feel like I've seen things posted about DSPs where they are used as the Master volume. So would I set my HU volume to a certain point & use the DSP as the Main volume control? Am I understanding that correctly? 

Also has anyone bought the controller knob with it? If so is it worth it? Or are you better off just only getting the USB adapter & controlling Master volume with app? Personally I always like having an actual knob in front of me but for $20 I can live w/o if the USB & app function is very easy to use...


----------



## minbari

Mitchc1113 said:


> I have a question about volume. I feel like I've seen things posted about DSPs where they are used as the Master volume. So would I set my HU volume to a certain point & use the DSP as the Main volume control? Am I understanding that correctly?
> 
> Also has anyone bought the controller knob with it? If so is it worth it? Or are you better off just only getting the USB adapter & controlling Master volume with app? Personally I always like having an actual knob in front of me but for $20 I can live w/o if the USB & app function is very easy to use...


You can do it that way. The app front page has + and - with a display for what the volume level is. Personally, if I was going to do it that way, i would get the knob. You have to get tge bluetooth module for the app to work anyway

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

Wrong thread, misconstrued.


----------



## minbari

V8toilet said:


> Does anyone find it interesting that these Zapco amps were praised and recommended in a lot of the forums and the people who owned them prior to this debacle praised them for their great sound quality, but as soon as it got in people’s heads that it didn’t meet the power rating that this all fell apart. So much of what people think amplifiers do or do not do is purely psychological.


Interesting.........but this about the Dayton DSP

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

minbari said:


> Interesting.........but this about the Dayton DSP
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


 Opps, wrong thread, lol. :laugh:


----------



## richardar6

Ge_off_me said:


> richardar6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the Eq page of the app, if you tap on the number next to the horizontal frequency slider, you'll get another slider that has + and - adjustments. If the input mixer could do the same thing, it would be great and solve any space issues.
> 
> I'd like to request again to have one-touch preset buttons. No save/recall/cancel after touching preset. Makes it easier when driving. I've already accidentally hit the wrong icon when on a bumpy road. Hit save instead of recall.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't recommend using the app while driving.
> 
> Having the option to save a tune as well as recall one on the main page is a nice feature in my eyes.
Click to expand...

I agree about not using the app while driving, but I do need to change presets from time to time for different types of music and /or recording qualities. I like the main page and don't want to to get rid of the save function either. But if there were a separate Icon for "Save" with a drop down menu for preset number (which exactly how the save icon works on "output" screen) , then it could free up the main preset icons for direct "recall" (one touch operation) of the corresponding number preset. None of the main screen functions would be lost and only one icon would be added.


----------



## Vmax911

This DSP looks very interesting at this pricepoint!

I currently have a PPI DSP-88R. It was a little quirky out of the box, but I've worked around most of its issues. Anyone know how this Dayton DSP compares to the PPI? Spec wise it seems that the PPI signal to noise is 95dB, while the Dayton is 115dB. Is that something I would really notice?

I really like the tune by app feature, seems really useful. Speaking of app, it looks like there is a slider to turn the bluetooth music streaming on and off. So does that mean that you have to use the app to stream? Also, if the streaming is switched off, does it default to another input? I.e. if you are streaming music and get a phone call, can you turn off the streaming using the app which will automatically send it back to the headunit input?


----------



## minbari

Turning the streaming on and off does just that. Still allows the app to tune, but won't connect media to the outputs

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## BillC

Interesting. I downloaded the app. It's earily similar to alpines new dsp's app... I would love to be a fly on the wall at the facility making these units.. how much technology and programming they share.. the real differences between inexpensive units like this and much higher priced units are probably few, if any at all.


----------



## Ge_off_me

BillC said:


> So for 150 bucks. Anyone have a review or comparison write up yet? Gosh it's tempting to just buy it and have it for future projects. Doubt the introductory price will stay this low for long


This isn't introductory pricing.


----------



## BillC

So is it a limited run pricing.. or is that what it will actually retail for long term? Also any one know if there will be available upgrades like the minidsp kits offer? If it had spdif toslink input that would be awesome..


----------



## Ge_off_me

BillC said:


> So is it a limited run pricing.. or is that what it will actually retail for long term? Also any one know if there will be available upgrades like the minidsp kits offer? If it had spdif toslink input that would be awesome..


No, this is the regular retail price for the foreseeable future.

No, there will not be. There is a chance we could make another DSP that will include some digital inputs and other features, but as of right now, that is still a project we need to look into.


----------



## Red Saber

So far so good. I kind of want the MS-8 to finally die so I’ll have the excuse. But it just keeps on trucking.


----------



## dprada01

I tried to comb through the thread but i cant find it.

If i use the PC software to tune, would i be able to go in and use the app to change the tune?

The reason i ask this is because on the PC software you have the ability to add a shelf filter on bands 1 & 10. I do not see that option. Also i think i would prefer laptop tuning but the have the ability to go in on the fly with the phone. 
Or once you tune with one the other interface becomes null. 

Just trying to figure out how that works.

Oh last question, the BT. If i have streaming on does it just shut off the other inputs? Lets say i have my factory HU using the high level speaker turn on, but then i turn the BT on. Will the unit no longer detect the hi level speaker in and shut off? What if i never turn the HU on and the want to stream BT, does it still turn on?


----------



## Ge_off_me

dprada01 said:


> I tried to comb through the thread but i cant find it.
> 
> If i use the PC software to tune, would i be able to go in and use the app to change the tune?
> 
> The reason i ask this is because on the PC software you have the ability to add a shelf filter on bands 1 & 10. I do not see that option. Also i think i would prefer laptop tuning but the have the ability to go in on the fly with the phone.
> Or once you tune with one the other interface becomes null.
> 
> Just trying to figure out how that works.
> 
> Oh last question, the BT. If i have streaming on does it just shut off the other inputs? Lets say i have my factory HU using the high level speaker turn on, but then i turn the BT on. Will the unit no longer detect the hi level speaker in and shut off? What if i never turn the HU on and the want to stream BT, does it still turn on?


You can edit the tune you make on the Windows program via the mobile app.

I'm not 100% sure if the shelf filter will remain 100% intact after editing and saving in the mobile app. I will try to find a way to add the shelf filters into the mobile app.

The Bluetooth input takes priority over all other inputs, as long as the streaming button is switched on. If you never turn on the radio with the speaker level turn on being utilized, the DSP will not turn on. If you could find a way to use a 12v trigger and then switch the turn on method to the remote setting, it will then work with high level or if you just want to use Bluetooth.


----------



## minbari

dprada01 said:


> I tried to comb through the thread but i cant find it.
> 
> If i use the PC software to tune, would i be able to go in and use the app to change the tune?
> 
> The reason i ask this is because on the PC software you have the ability to add a shelf filter on bands 1 & 10. I do not see that option. Also i think i would prefer laptop tuning but the have the ability to go in on the fly with the phone.
> Or once you tune with one the other interface becomes null.
> 
> Just trying to figure out how that works.
> 
> Oh last question, the BT. If i have streaming on does it just shut off the other inputs? Lets say i have my factory HU using the high level speaker turn on, but then i turn the BT on. Will the unit no longer detect the hi level speaker in and shut off? What if i never turn the HU on and the want to stream BT, does it still turn on?


No. You can use either one.

Ya, I think they are guns fix that with the next app version

Yes. If you connect your phone's BT it will switch to that input. If you want your BT connected all the time you would have to disable streaming

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## dprada01

Ge_off_me said:


> You can edit the tune you make on the Windows program via the mobile app.
> 
> I'm not 100% sure if the shelf filter will remain 100% intact after editing and saving in the mobile app. I will try to find a way to add the shelf filters into the mobile app.
> 
> The Bluetooth input takes priority over all other inputs, as long as the streaming button is switched on. If you never turn on the radio with the speaker level turn on being utilized, the DSP will not turn on. If you could find a way to use a 12v trigger and then switch the turn on method to the remote setting, it will then work with high level or if you just want to use Bluetooth.


Okay that is great news! I'm pretty sure ill be ordering one today.

Just to clarify, if i tune via the PC, save it, and then open up the app with BT dongle. Would the saved file be uploaded as preset 1? You said the shelf filter MIGHT be altered but what if i do not edit anything in the mobile app and just use the mobile app for BT streaming on and off function? Would that affect the PC tune? Adding the shelf would be great to the app and would really seal the deal but im just trying to find ways around the that worst case scenario.


----------



## minbari

dprada01 said:


> Okay that is great news! I'm pretty sure ill be ordering one today.
> 
> Just to clarify, if i tune via the PC, save it, and then open up the app with BT dongle. Would the saved file be uploaded as preset 1? You said the shelf filter MIGHT be altered but what if i do not edit anything in the mobile app and just use the mobile app for BT streaming on and off function? Would that affect the PC tune? Adding the shelf would be great to the app and would really seal the deal but im just trying to find ways around the that worst case scenario.


The current tune AND all the presets are stored in the dsp. So the pc or mobile app are seamless

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Mitchc1113

Well after staying up to date with this post over the past week I decided to pull the trigger.

I've had the 408, BT dongle & Volume knob in my cart on Partsexpress.com since Monday afternoon and I kept saying I'm getting it, today is the day. And most the time I was at work & I'd get side tracked bc I'd actually have to do work & by the time I got back on my phone I'd say ummm I dunno if I really need it, like you might as well just hook up the Massive Audio EQ7X & see how that sounds first before you go & buy something else...

Just kept goin back n forth, so today I'm reading some of the new posts and I realize I dont think I've yet to see a bad review, it's all been good, great even! A few well this could be better or I wish it did this or the App had that, but for a brand new product I dont think you could ask for a better launch. So with that being said I was like screw it, I'm getting it, its payday anyways and I also realized if I dont open the EQ7X I can send that back & get a full refund too!

Lastly, I found an awesome $15 off coupon for Parts Express that actually worked so I got the DSP, Dongle & Vol Knob + expedited shipping for $190... should have been close to $210... Cant wait for this to come in so I can play with it, I've never had a DSP before so I'm really excited...just hope my expectations dont exceed its capabilities seeing as I've never used a DSP before...


----------



## OneGun

Mine arrived today with all the dongles. Still don’t know when I’ll get around to installing it, but looking forward to learning about it.


----------



## bbfoto

Mitchc1113 said:


> ... Cant wait for this to come in so I can play with it, I've never had a DSP before so I'm really excited...just hope my expectations dont exceed its capabilities seeing as I've never used a DSP before...


One thing that you might want to do is add small capacitors to your tweeters as backup protection in case of a XO glitch or user error accident which sends full range or bass frequencies to your tweeters which could blow them.

There is a tutorial on how & why to do this in the "Tech Tips" section on the _Audiofrog_ website, along with a few other "tuning" guides that are excellent:

*Audiofrog Tech Tips*

Have fun with the new DSP!


----------



## Ge_off_me

When you guys get around to installing and tuning these, please leave your thoughts, impressions, and a solid review on the product page of Parts Express. It helps me out a ton


----------



## bbfoto

Ge_off_me said:


> When you guys get around to installing and tuning these, please leave your thoughts, impressions, and a solid review on the product page of Parts Express. It helps me out a ton


Just curious is there any type of basic tuning guide included in the instructions?


----------



## minbari

bbfoto said:


> Just curious is there any type of basic tuning guide included in the instructions?


No

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## richardar6

I measured all my speaker distances and entered each delay field with the measurements - don't know if that was the right way or not because it didn't sound right. Then I adjusted everything by ear and OMG! It sounds (expletive) AMAZING! I normally don't stream with Pandora because it always sounded a bit hollow and lifeless on my system. Even the DQ-61 and its minimal time alignment didn't help. This DSP completely opened up my sound stage and made compressed streaming sound good. I was also able to finally bring my subs up to the front seat. The closest I ever got before was the back seats in my SUV. I've changed my amps 6 times, 5 different sets of components, 5 different subs, different EQ's and the DQ-61 - and now a $149 little box comes along and not only solves all my issues, but exceeds in giving me the sound quality I was hoping for. That, I'm still not done tuning all the presets yet.

Given all the horror stories with noise and glitches (and the firmware updates to try and fix them) from other inexpensive DSP's, I think they did an amazing job with this initial release. 

I would like to ask for one more wish. Any way to have the preset light up on the App main screen so we know which preset is currently selected? 

P. S. The volume number color fade in to red when you start reaching max volume is a very nice touch. It shows alot of thought went into the design.


----------



## Gramps

Just a question for this or future models, 
Digital input?? The fibre optic thing, does this dsp have that input feature or will there be an update version that will have digital input, or hdmi?
Cheers, krem


----------



## JCsAudio

Gramps said:


> Just a question for this or future models,
> Digital input?? The fibre optic thing, does this dsp have that input feature or will there be an update version that will have digital input, or hdmi?
> Cheers, krem


These do not have a digital input, but there isn’t any HU that I know of currently made that offer a digital output anyway.


----------



## subiemax

Anybody else find that the high level inputs are labeled exactly opposite from what they are? As in, white is labeled 1 when it is actually 4.


----------



## minbari

subiemax said:


> Anybody else find that the high level inputs are labeled exactly opposite from what they are? As in, white is labeled 1 when it is actually 4.


Some other people have found this to be true as well

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

I didn’t verify the high level inputs, but the low level inputs I did and they are correct. I did some extensive testing today comparing the Dayton to my JL TwK 88 on video. I will be posting that video here soon once the editing is done. Trying to capture all that information on a short video is not easy. Found some interesting things about the Dayton and did a little tutorial on setting it up for beginners. It’s a great budget DSP, but it does have some minor shortcomings worth mentioning.


----------



## richardar6

minbari said:


> subiemax said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody else find that the high level inputs are labeled exactly opposite from what they are? As in, white is labeled 1 when it is actually 4.
> 
> 
> 
> Some other people have found this to be true as well
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I thought I was the only one, lol. Though I might be the only one that has right and left outputs reversed on channels 1 and 2, and 5 and 6. Oddly, my 3 and 4 are actually correct. Found that out when I added a third amp and thought reversing the rca's like all the other output channels would be the thing to do. Never checked 7 and 8 because they go to mono sub amp. In the end, I got it ato work, but it still bugs me.


----------



## karmajack

V8toilet said:


> I didn’t verify the high level inputs, but the low level inputs I did and they are correct. I did some extensive testing today comparing the Dayton to my JL TwK 88 on video. I will be posting that video here soon once the editing is done. Trying to capture all that information on a short video is not easy. Found some interesting things about the Dayton and did a little tutorial on setting it up for beginners. It’s a great budget DSP, but it does have some minor shortcomings worth mentioning.


I very much look forward to this. I've been teetering on the edge of getting a dedicated DSP for a while now. The 3 units on my radar were the TWK, MS-8, and now this one. I'm really leaning towards the Dayton right now. Give a heads up when you post it.


----------



## JCsAudio

karmajack said:


> I very much look forward to this. I've been teetering on the edge of getting a dedicated DSP for a while now. The 3 units on my radar were the TWK, MS-8, and now this one. I'm really leaning towards the Dayton right now. Give a heads up when you post it.


If you haven’t already, use the thread tool tab and subscribe to this thread with email notification. When I post the video, you will get a notification. The person that helps me edit the videos is on vacation, but I plan to sit down with him Monday night and try and get this up ASAP.


----------



## 6262ms3

I've seen enough positive feedback on here, I decided to pull the trigger and bought one from Solen.ca. Listed as "available on backorder" so I'm not sure how long it will take to get it, but it was only a bit over $200 CDN shipped. Looking forward to my first dsp, I've got a shiny new car waiting for it.


----------



## OneGun

Couple questions here, gents, about wiring this thing up. 

1. I see there is a remote out circuit with the wiring harness. I chatted with P/E this morning and the rep confirmed my suspicion that I could connect the 12 volt wire that's currently serving as the remote signal to my 5-channel amp and connect that, instead, to the 12 volt Key-On circuit (red wire) at the 408 DSP (input). 

Then, connect the blue wire from the 408 DSP (output) back into the remote terminal at my amp (input). 

So I think I'm good here and thankfully won't have to run a 12 volt key-on circuit to the back of my truck. 

2. For the 12 volt hot-at-all-times input at the DSP...

Obviously, my amp has a power cable... a 4 gauge hot-at-all-times. My brain is scheming a way to tie into this circuit and splice off from it a small wire that I can run to the DSP. 

But if this is even possible/advisable, I'd like to do it cleanly. So that's the question... can/should I do this and, if so, is there a junction block that anyone makes that I could use to do this cleanly. 

I'm planning on mounting the DSP right next to my amp.

Or should I stop being a lazy fuk and just run another fuk'n wire?

TIA


----------



## WilliamS

OneGun said:


> Couple questions here, gents, about wiring this thing up.
> 
> 1. I see there is a remote out circuit with the wiring harness. I chatted with P/E this morning and the rep confirmed my suspicion that I could connect the 12 volt wire that's currently serving as the remote signal to my 5-channel amp and connect that, instead, to the 12 volt Key-On circuit (red wire) at the 408 DSP (input).
> 
> Then, connect the blue wire from the 408 DSP (output) back into the remote terminal at my amp (input).
> 
> So I think I'm good here and thankfully won't have to run a 12 volt key-on circuit to the back of my truck.
> 
> 2. For the 12 volt hot-at-all-times input at the DSP...
> 
> Obviously, my amp has a power cable... a 4 gauge hot-at-all-times. My brain is scheming a way to tie into this circuit and splice off from it a small wire that I can run to the DSP.
> 
> But if this is even possible/advisable, I'd like to do it cleanly. So that's the question... can/should I do this and, if so, is there a junction block that anyone makes that I could use to do this cleanly.
> 
> I'm planning on mounting the DSP right next to my amp.
> 
> Or should I stop being a lazy fuk and just run another fuk'n wire?
> 
> TIA


Pin 9 is remote in, Pin 10 is remote out to your next amp. Constant Power wire you can either run a block on your existing amp wire, or run a new wire. There are "other" ways to do it, but I would just use a block of some sort.


----------



## minbari

If the amp has clamps for power. Then loosen and put the red one in there

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## OneGun

WilliamS said:


> Pin 9 is remote in, Pin 10 is remote out to your next amp. Constant Power wire you can either run a block on your existing amp wire, or run a new wire. There are "other" ways to do it, but I would just use a block of some sort.


Yes, would definitely like to use a block, but the only ones I've seen are 4 ga and/or 0 ga. I'm pretty certain I'll just be running a 16-18 ga to the DSP, but haven't found any blocks that are specific to this. 

Maybe I need to think more outside the box. 



minbari said:


> If the amp has clamps for power. Then loosen and put the red one in there



The amp's power is a screw-in clamp, so I guess I could do it that way. I wish there was a cleaner way, but that's not bad... not bad at all. Wondering how I could do this really cleanly. 

Also, I was going to install some heat shrink and ferules on all my connections the next time I got into it (which will now be DSP installation time), but don't know how I'd do this if I went that route... unless I spliced a 16-18 gauge wire inside the ferule...

Hmm...

Want this to be clean, but...


----------



## SilentWrath

Use a distribution block with 4 or 8 gauge out to this fuse block then you can connect the dsp power wire to the fuse block.

Liteway Car Truck 4 Way 12~32V Blade Fuse Holder Box 4-Circuit Fuse Block with Cover for Automotive Boat Marine(LED Indicator), 2 Years Warranty https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072Q3GLVJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_ByYxBb488C6B4


----------



## OneGun

SilentWrath said:


> Use a distribution block with 4 or 8 gauge out to this fuse block then you can connect the dsp power wire to the fuse block.
> 
> Liteway Car Truck 4 Way 12~32V Blade Fuse Holder Box 4-Circuit Fuse Block with Cover for Automotive Boat Marine(LED Indicator), 2 Years Warranty https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072Q3GLVJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_ByYxBb488C6B4


Yeah, thanks, sure seems like the way to go. 

I found this one too. This is going to make my life a lot easier. 

Now I just have to install my components and run some speaker wires. 

Might be active here in a couple weeks, bros... :thumbsup:


----------



## JCsAudio

The video is almost ready but it’s long at about 63 minutes. A lot of it is covering how the software works and also I go through how to do a basic base tune for beginners. I can break that apart to make two shorter videos if that makes sense or keep it all as one since it’s all related. Thoughts? The video is a review of this DSP and also comparison to my JL TwK DSP.


----------



## karmajack

I'm cool with it being all in one vid. Would make it easier for us if you had time stamped chapter links in the description that we could jump to. If that works for your presentation or not, I don't know.


----------



## JCsAudio

karmajack said:


> I'm cool with it being all in one vid. Would make it easier for us if you had time stamped chapter links in the description that we could jump to. If that works for your presentation or not, I don't know.


Here is the rough draft version of the video. I need to break it out and do more editing but wanted to get this up for Monday. Skip from 34.19 to 52.13 if you do not need to know how to set up a basic tune. The last part of the video is where I talk about the noise floor and my findings that has something to do with that remote. 

https://youtu.be/pzBTHMwRrKM

Sorry if I’m hard to hear, I recently had surgery on my throat and it left me with a weak voice.


----------



## OneGun

V8toilet said:


> Here is the rough draft version of the video. I need to break it out and do more editing but wanted to get this up for Monday. Skip from 34.19 to 52.13 if you do not need to know how to set up a basic tune. The last part of the video is where I talk about the noise floor and my findings that has something to do with that remote.
> 
> https://youtu.be/pzBTHMwRrKM
> 
> Sorry if I’m hard to hear, I recently had surgery on my throat and it left me with a weak voice.



Man, you're pretty hard on that cat. :mean:


----------



## JCsAudio

OneGun said:


> Man, you're pretty hard on that cat. :mean:


Lol, that cat is all over me all the time. Don't worry, he gets tons of love and is well taken care of. He wants constant affection, more than some dogs do.


----------



## Ge_off_me

Great video, thank you for the review.


----------



## nirschl

When will the iOS app for iPhone be ready? I’m interested in the unit but, I’m a Mac dude. ? Cingrats on a successful launch!


----------



## nirschl

I apologize. I didn’t realize it was already available. 

How would those with experience compare this to the Pioneer P99 unit’s capabilities?


----------



## Mitchc1113

So I got my 408 DSP in the mail yesterday. This is my 1st DSP and I've just recently started reading up on everything they can do. Been out of the loop for about 10 yrs until 2 months ago.

I competed in db drag back in the day, when you're 17-21 back then SQ wasnt a high priority. So I'm very green, just want to get the most out of my setup & have it sound good...to me.

I have a 2018 Silverado double cab. My current setup:

- Stock 8" Chevy Mylink HU (Non Bose)

- Audiocontrol LC2i

- 2.75" Memphis 15-PR275 dash speakers 
4 ohm
15 watts RMS- (per speaker) Run off HU
221-12,000Hz range
85db sensitivity

- NVX NSP65- 6.5 Coaxials
4 ohm
40 watts RMS (per speaker)
70-20,000Hz range
89db sensitivity 

- Memphis SRX2.150 
Powering NVX Coaxials

- Sundown SD3 12"
1.25 cu/ft ported down firing box tuned to 32hz

- JBL GTR1001 
Powering Sundown sub

That's what I have installed right now, I do however also have the following.

- CDT CL-61a Classics- 6.5" Comp set 
6.5" Driver & TW-20 3/4" Tweeter
2004 Model- Still brand new 
4 ohm
110 watts rms
60-20,000Hz
92db sensitivity 

- Massive Audio M6- 6.5" Midrange driver
8 ohm
140 watts RMS (per speaker)
270-10,000Hz range
96db sensitivity 

- Skar Audio LP-80.4ABv2

So as you can see I have quite a few options when it comes to a setup. So who recommends what... Should I keep it way it is now w/ coaxials and tune with the dsp just those and my sub, see how it sounds? Or install the components, passive and play with them? Is it even possible to run those components active? I'm also planning on installing the Massive M6s somewhere for midbass, possibly the kick panels?

Not really sure about anything, and I'm willing to try anything and everything out, I just want to know that I wouldn't be wasting my time by trying things if theres a setup that seems like it would def work better than the others with the dsp. Bc as much as I like tinkering, it takes time and with a 40+ hr/week job and a young child freetime is hard to come by.

Thanks for sticking with me those who did, I appreciate any and all help.

And here's a little taste of this beauty!


----------



## Hubbard 0

That's an interesting mash up of parts.

I'd run those components active with the 4 channel. It'd be cool to integrate those midbass drivers, but from what I've read for an ideal 3 way, all 3 of those speakers won't complement each other ideally. And of course for 3 way active you'd need 6 channels of amplification.

To maximize what you've got, I'd use the 4 channel amp for front components run active, use that 2 channel amplifier on the coaxials for rear fill, and then the sub. Everything can go through the DSP for great control.

You won't need the LC2, the Memphis speakers or Massive Audio.


----------



## JCsAudio

Mitchc113, it’s best to run the tweeter and woofer seperate from the component set active, but just to get used to using the DSP, you can work with the current coaxial drivers you have installed and then upgrade later. Use an inline capacitor on the component tweeters to protect them in case you send a full range signal to them by accident. I did a YouTube tutorial on this DSP and software and go into how to set everything up, including that cap on the tweeters. Link is a few posts above, post 242.


----------



## msueagle350z

Just ordered one as well! excited to finally go active! On a completely different side note I have a minidsp ddrc-22d at home that I have fallen in love with. Truly excited to see what this little guy can do for my truck. 


I currently have a set of un installed Hertz hsk components set to go in but now that I am giving this dsp a shot im leaning towards selling them and picking up some stevens audio mb-8's for the doors. Currently having an ebay extracanza selling off unneeded electronics to help fund this project. 

Any thoughts on the Stevens mb-8 and horns with the potential noise floor introduced by the volume controller in the video? Kind of hesitant since they are so sensitive. 

The truck is a 1996 7.3 powerstroke that sounds like a schoolbus Think the noise would go unnoticeable while the truck is running?


----------



## minbari

msueagle350z said:


> Just ordered one as well! excited to finally go active! On a completely different side note I have a minidsp ddrc-22d at home that I have fallen in love with. Truly excited to see what this little guy can do for my truck.
> 
> 
> I currently have a set of un installed Hertz hsk components set to go in but now that I am giving this dsp a shot im leaning towards selling them and picking up some stevens audio mb-8's for the doors. Currently having an ebay extracanza selling off unneeded electronics to help fund this project.
> 
> Any thoughts on the Stevens mb-8 and horns with the potential noise floor introduced by the volume controller in the video? Kind of hesitant since they are so sensitive.
> 
> The truck is a 1996 7.3 powerstroke that sounds like a schoolbus Think the noise would go unnoticeable while the truck is running?


I had the ID xs65 and the minihorns. Believe me you need about 20 watts to drown out ANYTHING. You have no idea how loud 112db 1w/1m is until you do it.

As for the nose floor. You WILL be knocking them down 20db to match the the midbass anyway. Don't think it will be an issue

I wish my horns would have fit in my new truck. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## SilentWrath

Having some trouble now with the app not wanting to connect.

Was making a few adjustments just fine via BT and the app. Went to make another adjustment and got this message shown below in the pics.

You can also see my phone connected to the dsp in my settings just fine.

Tried turning BT on and off on my phone, unpairing and pairing the dsp device, closing and reopening the app, cutting power to the dsp and unplugged and reconnected the dongle.

Still can't get the app to work.


----------



## minbari

Reboot your phone

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Onyx1136

Delete the app, reboot your phone, reinstall the app. If this doesn’t work, it can’t be fixed on your end.


----------



## JCsAudio

Try to reload the PC preset to the DSP from the PC too, just in case.


----------



## SilentWrath

Got it running from the app again just fine after a phone reboot. Thanks for the suggestion cause for some reason that didn't even come to mind! 

So glad to say it was a phone problem not a dsp problem!

My phone did generate an error report which I sent in to HTC.


----------



## RRizz

I just installed one in my Pickup, Along with some gear I had lying around... TM65v2's in doors, BMmk4 under rear seat, and dayton RS754's in dash (no tweeters) Running off of A JBL MSA5001, and a MSA1004, being fed from a cheap ass Sounstream Double din Head Unit. I'm pretty impressed for $150. It does everything it needs to do.
I also picked up the controller, which only controls master volume, and presets, but I probably will not install it, the Phone app is just as easy, IMO for switching presets, and I wouldnt use the master volume control anyway.
I, too, got that error on my phone. I simply closed the app, turned off the BT, and went back into it, and it connected as soon as I pressed the advanced settings button on the screen.
Hopefully, its not a recurring thing.
Other than that, no complaints.


----------



## BillC

Can't it be fed a variable level input from a head unit? I keep thinking one of these with old cda-9887 I habe laying around. Let imprint do it's thing and then tweek the basses settings with the dayton.. or even split the tweet and mid outputs from the 9887. And have a 4 way front stage with subs. Seems like it would be a nice setup. Always liked the audyssey tuning except for how thin the bass is


----------



## openglcg

The bluetooth audio interface uses aptX which is an upgrade over SBC. But I have a few questions about aptX and the dsp. When playing 44.1khz audio over bluetooth will aptX and the DSP switch into 44.1khz sample rate?


----------



## Theslaking

I came home to this disappointment



My lazy ass mail lady won't deliver packages. My door is only 30' from the road but she won't get out of the truck. She doesn't even bring packages with her, just notices.


----------



## RRizz

Theslaking said:


> I came home to this disappointment
> 
> 
> 
> My lazy ass mail lady won't deliver packages. My door is only 30' from the road but she won't get out of the truck. She doesn't even bring packages with her, just notices.


 Have you tried christmas cookies every year? Lol


----------



## Theslaking

I've done way better. I live in a valley so up hill both ways. It's brutal in the winter. I've towed her mail truck up the road a bunch of times. I'm talking lay down in the snow, dig under to hook up the chain, then tow, lay back in the snow to unhook. My wife actually got upset at me this year for doing it. I'm like you gotta do you regardless of other people. She doesn't even know that I could have had her reassigned. I did the Post Master General's roof, his sons, and his grandsons. They offered to take care of the problem. The grandson works for the post office too. He said it's near impossible to fire a tenured worker there. So complaints often go on deaf ears. Not because they want them to but because their hands are tied by old policy as far as disciplinary action is concerned. Oh well. I'll get to check it out on Monday.


----------



## BillC

RRizz said:


> Have you tried christmas cookies every year? Lol


my mother is a postal carrier, and they must deliver to your mailbox not further, unless it is a contracted package from a different carrier, if that is the case they must deliver as instructed. she always gripes about how many of her coworkers are lazy and will just leave notices. call the local postmaster, file a written complaint... they will deliver your packages... besides they get paid extra for doing that stuff, but if they leave a notice and say they attempted to deliver it they are covered as long as nobody complains.. and they still get paid. it is kind of a whacky system they have in place, especially now that they are taking many packages from ups and fedex and dhl and doing the final delivery... make it known you want your packages delivered to your front porch when ordering and usps will honor the delivery request... and above that postal workers get paid very good.. my mom makes about a grand a week bring home plus mileage and maint expenses, all sorts of add ons to their pay.. but they will be lazy if you let them. or you can always put some sort of package receptacle by your mailbox at the road and inform the post office you want packages placed in it. for a while i used a simple plastic tub with lid that had a rock on it to keep the wind from blowing it away when empty, or just put it out when i knew i had packages coming.


----------



## BillC

for as nice as the setup appears to be.... 2 standard minidsp 2x4 units with a common 12volt power supply is comparably priced and has way more tuning options plus ability to use filters and files suggested by room eq wizard. I am thinking 2 of the minidsp kits for 85 bucks, a common power supply for less than 20, a simple plastic tool box to house them the 10 dollar plug ins required, and this also allows you to use the mini digi streamer and other things at a later date.. only drawback is low line voltage of 2 volts with hte standard 2x4 units.

I have been pricing options for an upcoming project.. and the dsp-408 looks great. but for a few bucks more the minidsp option offers a lot more flexibility. I would like to hear some reviews from guys that have previously used the minidsp and now have the dayton... anyone??


----------



## BillC

Theslaking said:


> I've done way better. I live in a valley so up hill both ways. It's brutal in the winter. I've towed her mail truck up the road a bunch of times. I'm talking lay down in the snow, dig under to hook up the chain, then tow, lay back in the snow to unhook. My wife actually got upset at me this year for doing it. I'm like you gotta do you regardless of other people. She doesn't even know that I could have had her reassigned. I did the Post Master General's roof, his sons, and his grandsons. They offered to take care of the problem. The grandson works for the post office too. He said it's near impossible to fire a tenured worker there. So complaints often go on deaf ears. Not because they want them to but because their hands are tied by old policy as far as disciplinary action is concerned. Oh well. I'll get to check it out on Monday.


yeah thats a no no, one time my moms jeep broke down, they had her sit with the car until the postmaster himself and another carrier came and unloaded the mail into the other vehicle before they would even allow the tow truck to hook up to it.. and if she had not followed that protocol the result would have been immediate termination... tenured or not they have some concrete rules they have to follow.. and its a federal offense if they do not.. in ways they have a cushy job.. yet in others they are bound by a very strict set of policies and procedures... that could have got the carrier fired.. and the union would not have had a ground to appeal the decision... tenured or not... good for the carrier you towed nobody made a complaint...


----------



## Ge_off_me

BillC said:


> for as nice as the setup appears to be.... 2 standard minidsp 2x4 units with a common 12volt power supply is comparably priced and has way more tuning options plus ability to use filters and files suggested by room eq wizard. I am thinking 2 of the minidsp kits for 85 bucks, a common power supply for less than 20, a simple plastic tool box to house them the 10 dollar plug ins required, and this also allows you to use the mini digi streamer and other things at a later date.. only drawback is low line voltage of 2 volts with hte standard 2x4 units.
> 
> I have been pricing options for an upcoming project.. and the dsp-408 looks great. but for a few bucks more the minidsp option offers a lot more flexibility. I would like to hear some reviews from guys that have previously used the minidsp and now have the dayton... anyone??


I would argue that the setup with 2 Minidsps would not be better, let me explain.

The Minidsp units are NOTORIOUS for terrible floor noise, but if you talk to anybody with a DSP-408 and they will tell you that there is an extremely low noise floor with the unit. 

Another huge advantage over the Minidsp units is the tuning. The Dayton Windows program is much more simple and easier to use than the Minidsp's software. The DSP-408 also offers the ability to stream audio content and tune using the mobile application over a Bluetooth connection when paired with the Bluetooth dongle.

The DSP-408 also has the ability to be used in a home or car right out of the box, without buying additional products or packages.

The DSP-408 may not be quite as powerful as the Minidsp units, but it is much more user-friendly and usable.


----------



## JCsAudio

I checked the temperature of my JL FIX and TwK after a long hour ride today and they were 108°F and 104°F respectably, so compares well with the Dayton 408 DSP in the video.


----------



## minbari

BillC said:


> for as nice as the setup appears to be.... 2 standard minidsp 2x4 units with a common 12volt power supply is comparably priced and has way more tuning options plus ability to use filters and files suggested by room eq wizard. I am thinking 2 of the minidsp kits for 85 bucks, a common power supply for less than 20, a simple plastic tool box to house them the 10 dollar plug ins required, and this also allows you to use the mini digi streamer and other things at a later date.. only drawback is low line voltage of 2 volts with hte standard 2x4 units.
> 
> I have been pricing options for an upcoming project.. and the dsp-408 looks great. but for a few bucks more the minidsp option offers a lot more flexibility. I would like to hear some reviews from guys that have previously used the minidsp and now have the dayton... anyone??


The ones that are 2x4 for $85 don't have 2 volt outputs, petty sure those are 0.9 volts. Plus you would have to buy 2 of them

The noise floor is prolly due to high gain settings due to such low output voltage

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Theslaking

There's really no noise issues with the 2x4's(of course if you were underpowered and had the gains way up) I ran two of them for a while in my truck. I switched to the 6x8. The inconveniences of two separate DSP's annoyed me. I still think two would be better but if your that serious about tuning you should be looking past these entry level DSP's anyway. Even the 2x4 hd's are a huge step up. Well someone picked the DSP up for me today.



My cat was interested in it too.

As far as the USPS. It is the local office's policy to deliver packages as long as the door is within 60' from the road. I did complain to her and the local Post Master. Nothing changed. When there's a substitute, packages are delivered. It's just her. Like I said I could do something if I wanted but no need to take it past a dirty look here and there. I really like the two ladies that work in the office so I don't mind picking up most of the time. If people didn't tow mail trucks up hills, out of fields, and off driveways no one would ever get their mail around here in the winter. I live outside the city in the hills and farm country. You can't even tell where roads are when it's snowing good or expect the low occupancy hilly roads to be plowed. Back the the regularly scheduled thread....


----------



## dprada01

Installed my DSP today. Quality and craftsmanship is awesome for the price. It’s weird because when I first installed it I was kinda disappointed with the sound quality as it’s my first time using a dsp. But once I got the gains adjusted (went from high level to 2v) playing around with the EQ and dB adjustment I was blown away by how much cleaner and better the system sounded. Did some TA by ear for the sub and my front channels and I got some decent imaging. It was totally off when I used distance. I’m going to hook up the Mic and try to balance my L/R front stage since I feel the EQ is different on each side. 

I can say it’s super user friendly once you spend a few minutes with the app. For the price I’m super happy. I’ll give you guys and update once I figure everything else out. I’m a newb to SQ and I know my equipment isn’t up to par as I have a baby on the way and I’m in the daily grind but I’m trying little by little. 


UPDATE!

I realized why my delay by distance was totally off. My channels 1/2 are flipped with 3/4 in the dsp software. My amp is bridged so I was using my delay and it was doing opposite of what I inputted. Kinda sucks having to run my wires backwards but other than that It’s pretty good!


----------



## Ge_off_me

Theslaking said:


> There's really no noise issues with the 2x4's(of course if you were underpowered and had the gains way up) I ran two of them for a while in my truck. I switched to the 6x8. The inconveniences of two separate DSP's annoyed me. I still think two would be better but if your that serious about tuning you should be looking past these entry level DSP's anyway. Even the 2x4 hd's are a huge step up. Well someone picked the DSP up for me today.
> 
> 
> 
> My cat was interested in it too.
> 
> As far as the USPS. It is the local office's policy to deliver packages as long as the door is within 60' from the road. I did complain to her and the local Post Master. Nothing changed. When there's a substitute, packages are delivered. It's just her. Like I said I could do something if I wanted but no need to take it past a dirty look here and there. I really like the two ladies that work in the office so I don't mind picking up most of the time. If people didn't tow mail trucks up hills, out of fields, and off driveways no one would ever get their mail around here in the winter. I live outside the city in the hills and farm country. You can't even tell where roads are when it's snowing good or expect the low occupancy hilly roads to be plowed. Back the the regularly scheduled thread....


I've used many of the 2x4s, and listened to many DIY speaker setups and cars using them, there is 100% a higher noise floor on them than most other processors. It's noted all over the internet by many individuals.

The 2x4HD does offer some benefits like digital in and the ability to import REW curves. But the DSP-408 offers many more advantages for ease of use and tuning.


----------



## Whiterabbit

Noise floor issues reported on the HD too? that are verified not related to gain issues? I understand the 2x4 has that reputation, but does the HD really have that reputation too?

Maybe better to ask, are there lots of people running the HD's WITHOUT audible noise floor problems? My car is silent now, and I want it to stay that way. I have a clean ground and good signal path. So far.


----------



## Theslaking

Ge_off_me said:


> I've used many of the 2x4s, and listened to many DIY speaker setups and cars using them, there is 100% a higher noise floor on them than most other processors. It's noted all over the internet by many individuals.
> 
> The 2x4HD does offer some benefits like digital in and the ability to import REW curves. But the DSP-408 offers many more advantages for ease of use and tuning.


It's supposed to be"with ones I used". I've definitely read about the problems. Mine all went away with the power isolator. Anyway the HD is said to be much better and has 4v outs I believe.


----------



## Ge_off_me

Whiterabbit said:


> Noise floor issues reported on the HD too? that are verified not related to gain issues? I understand the 2x4 has that reputation, but does the HD really have that reputation too?
> 
> Maybe better to ask, are there lots of people running the HD's WITHOUT audible noise floor problems? My car is silent now, and I want it to stay that way. I have a clean ground and good signal path. So far.


I've heard of issues with the HD, but they are FAR less than the standard 2x4, the C-DSP 6x8 is another story entirely.



Theslaking said:


> It's supposed to be"with ones I used". I've definitely read about the problems. Mine all went away with the power isolator. Anyway the HD is said to be much better and has 4v outs I believe.


Fair enough in that regard. The HD was a major improvement on their end from the standard 2x4.


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## ricren

*Improvements*

Hi, this is an outstanding product, no doubt about it.
For a new product, I'd pay $25-50 bucks more for a model with digital input.
Why? I do not use a HU, instead I installed a tablet and currently go from the tablet to a USB->sp-dif converter to an optical input on a Rockford 3sixty. Digital input is a must in order to avoid another DA-AD conversion.


----------



## Ge_off_me

*Re: Improvements*



ricren said:


> Hi, this is an outstanding product, no doubt about it.
> For a new product, I'd pay $25-50 bucks more for a model with digital input.
> Why? I do not use a HU, instead I installed a tablet and currently go from the tablet to a USB->sp-dif converter to an optical input on a Rockford 3sixty. Digital input is a must in order to avoid another DA-AD conversion.


THIS product will never have a digital input outside of the Bluetooth. 

Also, digital to digital conversions can be just as bad, if not worse than a digital to analog conversion it just depends on the type of conversion and what is doing the converting


----------



## Sulley

Got mine ordered yesterday from solen here in Canada, $275cad shipped... gross. This will be my first "DSP" outside of my 80prs so I'm pretty excited to get some proper EQ and finer level controls.

Got a couple questions that might possibly be quite stupid. 

With a shelf filter applied of say -10db, then I go and do a -12db PEQ filter at say 500hz. Is the system limited at a total of -12db or do I get -10db + -12db for a total of -22db @ 500hz?












Also, I have a 5ch amp with a single subwoofer channel. Is there any difference in say, running only one subwoofer output summed in the mixer vs running two outputs with separate sub left & rights? I seen in V8toilet's video how he was doing it and I never even considered using both channels. I assume the amp will sum the inputs regardless? I'm making my own rca's so it would be one less cable I gotta make, unless I needed 20 EQ filters on my sub channel. Correct?








VS.









Thanks!


----------



## ricren

*Re: Improvements*



Ge_off_me said:


> THIS product will never have a digital input outside of the Bluetooth.


As I 've explained before, all I'm asking is for a new model that includes the digital input as an additional feature with a different cost .


----------



## Ge_off_me

*Re: Improvements*



ricren said:


> As I 've explained before, all I'm asking is for a new model that includes the digital input as an additional feature with a different cost .


As I've explained before, depending on sales, we may bring in other models.

We wouldn't simply add a digital input, raise the price $25-$50 and call it a day.

There is a lot more R&D that goes into this that makes it not that simple, and to be honest, it wouldn't be worth it to anyone.

IF we did come out with a higher-end model, it would probably be at a higher price point and offer quite a few more features.


----------



## minbari

Sulley said:


> Got mine ordered yesterday from solen here in Canada, $275cad shipped... gross. This will be my first "DSP" outside of my 80prs so I'm pretty excited to get some proper EQ and finer level controls.
> 
> Got a couple questions that might possibly be quite stupid.
> 
> With a shelf filter applied of say -10db, then I go and do a -12db PEQ filter at say 500hz. Is the system limited at a total of -12db or do I get -10db + -12db for a total of -22db @ 500hz?


its a PEQ, you can set the bands any way you like. not sure why you would want to, but set one band to 500hz -12 DB with a Q of 0.4 and set the adjacent bands for 550 and 450 hz and set -12db with a Q of 3. you will have no content at 500 hz.


> Also, I have a 5ch amp with a single subwoofer channel. Is there any difference in say, running only one subwoofer output summed in the mixer vs running two outputs with separate sub left & rights? I seen in V8toilet's video how he was doing it and I never even considered using both channels. I assume the amp will sum the inputs regardless? I'm making my own rca's so it would be one less cable I gotta make, unless I needed 20 EQ filters on my sub channel. Correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


that is how I do it. sum the inputs with the mixer and use a single RCA into the bass amp.


----------



## Theslaking

*Re: Improvements*



Ge_off_me said:


> Also, digital to digital conversions can be just as bad, if not worse than a digital to analog conversion it just depends on the type of conversion and what is doing the converting


This one of the most over looked statements on this forum. Digital is still "converted" and sometimes very poorly. A good dac or two will beat a lot of poor digital conversions.


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## Reid1980

I was wondering using a SMD DD1 how would I set the gain on this or how should I want to set the gain on this. Also I looked at the MiniDsp's and dont they offer less bands, 6 vs the daytons 10, per channel? And I agree that having the volume knob be able to control what channels we want would be a great option like someone mentioned a check box for each channel. Especially since I wanted to use a class a/b 2 channel amp, that does not have a volume control to adjust the bass, for my subwoofers.


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## JCsAudio

You set the gains on your amplifiers with the crossovers set but no EQ applied (flat) like you would with any other device using the method you prefer. The 2x4 Mini DSP has 6 bands of EQ per band, but the 2x4 HD has 10 EQ per band, and I believe the 6x8 has 10 each also which are parametric EQ, not graphic.


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## JCsAudio

*Update:
*So I have installed this Dayton 408 DSP in my Toyota Sienna in place of the AudioControl EQX that was doing active duty before, and I'm getting to know its plus and minuses as a new DSP. I also discovered what I believe to be a design flaw with the time alignment, but I would like those here who also have one to verify my findings. I'm using the low level inputs from my Pioneer HU to the DSP, not the high level (speaker level) inputs. 

I have discovered that when inputting distances into the Dayton 408 DSP via measurements, that the DSP gets the delay times backwards from left to right and also adds delay to the subwoofer when it should not. After I set the delay up with the measurements through the Dayton DSP, I noticed that everything seemed to be coming from the left side and the subwoofer was easily localized as coming from the rear more than before. So I input the same measurements into my JL Twk 88 DSP and it came up with the opposite millisecond (ms) delay times compared to what the Dayton DSP calculated. The Dayton DSP also added 7.77 ms of delay to the subwoofer when the JL kept it as 0, obviously because it was the furthest speaker from me. 

The Dayton calculated the time delay in ms as: 
Left Tweeter 3.29 ms, Right Tweeter 4.54 ms, Left mid 3.15 ms, Right mid 4.69 ms, sub 7.78 ms. 

Using the same measurements the JL twk 88 calculated it as: 
Left Tweeter 4.52 ms, Right Tweeter 3.27 ms, Left mid 4.67 ms, Right mid 3.10 ms, sub 0 ms. 

So what I did was just input the delay times directly as ms into the Dayton DSP and now it sounds as it should. The stage is centered on the dash and the sub sounds like it’s up front. This time delay calculator came up with similar times to the my JL http://tracerite.com/calc.html


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## minbari

V8toilet said:


> *Update:
> *So I have installed this Dayton 408 DSP in my Toyota Sienna in place of the AudioControl EQX that was doing active duty before, and I'm getting to know its plus and minuses as a new DSP. I also discovered what I believe to be a design flaw with the time alignment, but I would like those here who also have one to verify my findings. I'm using the low level inputs from my Pioneer HU to the DSP, not the high level (speaker level) inputs.
> 
> I have discovered that when inputting distances into the Dayton 408 DSP via measurements, that the DSP gets the delay times backwards from left to right and also adds delay to the subwoofer when it should not. After I set the delay up with the measurements through the Dayton DSP, I noticed that everything seemed to be coming from the left side and the subwoofer was easily localized as coming from the rear more than before. So I input the same measurements into my JL Twk 88 DSP and it came up with the opposite millisecond (ms) delay times compared to what the Dayton DSP calculated. The Dayton DSP also added 7.77 ms of delay to the subwoofer when the JL kept it as 0, obviously because it was the furthest speaker from me.
> 
> The Dayton calculated the time delay in ms as:
> Left Tweeter 3.29 ms, Right Tweeter 4.54 ms, Left mid 3.15 ms, Right mid 4.69 ms, sub 7.78 ms.
> 
> Using the same measurements the JL twk 88 calculated it as:
> Left Tweeter 4.52 ms, Right Tweeter 3.27 ms, Left mid 4.67 ms, Right mid 3.10 ms, sub 0 ms.
> 
> So what I did was just input the delay times directly as ms into the Dayton DSP and now it sounds as it should. The stage is centered on the dash and the sub sounds like it’s up front. This time delay calculator came up with similar times to the my JL http://tracerite.com/calc.html


Mine didn't have this issue. It only time delayed the channels I set. Not sure how it would add delay to a channel you didn't specify. It can't know what channel the "sub" channel even is

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## JCsAudio

Added images of the Dayton Software and JL software so everyone can see the difference. The Dayton channels are as follows. CH1 (left tweeter) CH2 (right tweeter) CH3 (left mid) CH4 (right mid) CH5 (not used) CH6 (not used) CH7 (left sub RCA) CH8 (right sub RCA). The JL tune 3.0 software is spelled out in the picture.


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## RRizz

curious to know.. are you saying you entered the delay in inches, and then clicked on the ms icon, and the delays showed in ms? I tried to enter mine in IN, and click the ms icon, and the delays all disappear, resetting to 0.
when initially setting mine, I just went right to tracerite, and entered those values in ms, then adjusted to my liking.


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## minbari

RRizz said:


> curious to know.. are you saying you entered the delay in inches, and then clicked on the ms icon, and the delays showed in ms? * I tried to enter mine in IN, and click the ms icon, and the delays all disappear, resetting to 0.*
> when initially setting mine, I just went right to tracerite, and entered those values in ms, then adjusted to my liking.


It does say that in the manual. It is supposed to do that

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## minbari

V8toilet said:


> *Update:
> *So I have installed this Dayton 408 DSP in my Toyota Sienna in place of the AudioControl EQX that was doing active duty before, and I'm getting to know its plus and minuses as a new DSP. I also discovered what I believe to be a design flaw with the time alignment, but I would like those here who also have one to verify my findings. I'm using the low level inputs from my Pioneer HU to the DSP, not the high level (speaker level) inputs.
> 
> I have discovered that when inputting distances into the Dayton 408 DSP via measurements, that the DSP gets the delay times backwards from left to right and also adds delay to the subwoofer when it should not. After I set the delay up with the measurements through the Dayton DSP, I noticed that everything seemed to be coming from the left side and the subwoofer was easily localized as coming from the rear more than before. So I input the same measurements into my JL Twk 88 DSP and it came up with the opposite millisecond (ms) delay times compared to what the Dayton DSP calculated. The Dayton DSP also added 7.77 ms of delay to the subwoofer when the JL kept it as 0, obviously because it was the furthest speaker from me.
> 
> The Dayton calculated the time delay in ms as:
> Left Tweeter 3.29 ms, Right Tweeter 4.54 ms, Left mid 3.15 ms, Right mid 4.69 ms, sub 7.78 ms.
> 
> Using the same measurements the JL twk 88 calculated it as:
> Left Tweeter 4.52 ms, Right Tweeter 3.27 ms, Left mid 4.67 ms, Right mid 3.10 ms, sub 0 ms.
> 
> So what I did was just input the delay times directly as ms into the Dayton DSP and now it sounds as it should. The stage is centered on the dash and the sub sounds like it’s up front. This time delay calculator came up with similar times to the my JL http://tracerite.com/calc.html


2 things, 

1)you put the delays in the dayton sw. It just does what you tell it. Any channel can be anything. So it can't know what channel does what

2) the JL is not doing what it should. At the very least not what I would want. You set a distance and it set 0ms for the sub channel?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## RRizz

minbari said:


> It does say that in the manual. It is supposed to do that
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Indeed. I'm trying to figure out where he says he input them as "measurements" but the dayton calculated the ms wrong. ??
Is it too early in the am for my brain?? lol
How exactly is it "calculating" anything? YOU enter the values, either in ms/in/cm.


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## minbari

^^^^ exactly. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## openglcg

Reid1980 said:


> I was wondering using a SMD DD1 how would I set the gain on this or how should I want to set the gain on this. Also I looked at the MiniDsp's and dont they offer less bands, 6 vs the daytons 10, per channel? And I agree that having the volume knob be able to control what channels we want would be a great option like someone mentioned a check box for each channel. Especially since I wanted to use a class a/b 2 channel amp, that does not have a volume control to adjust the bass, for my subwoofers.


You have to test every link in the chain. With the dsp there are a few considerations. The dsp has an input voltage rating of 3.5 volts so you will need to test for input distortion if your head unit can put out more than 3.5. Always test with a flat eq and then make sure your eq doesnt go above 0db when you set the dsp after you tuned it.

So.
Plug dd1 into head unit find max headunit volume. Dont go over that on the head unit.

Plug head unit into dsp and dd1 into dsp output. Turn dsp up until it registers on the dd1. You will need to find the right combination of volume on the head unit and dsp. You want to use the max head unit volume possible. You may hit distortion but you can turn down the dsp and then turn up the head unit. Give priority to head unit volume first then dsp volume and when you finnish those are the max settings you can use for head unit and dsp. You may prefer to use the head unit volume controls for music or the dsp when you are driving. Just dont go over the settings you found.

After that you can use the settings you found for dsp and head unit to tune the amp. Plug dd1 into amp output and adjust gain


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## JCsAudio

RRizz said:


> curious to know.. are you saying you entered the delay in inches, and then clicked on the ms icon, and the delays showed in ms? I tried to enter mine in IN, and click the ms icon, and the delays all disappear, resetting to 0.
> when initially setting mine, I just went right to tracerite, and entered those values in ms, then adjusted to my liking.


RRizz, I save the preset to the PC as a file after inputting the measurements in inches and then click on the ms icon, which makes the measurements disappear like you stated and as stated in the manual. Click on file/load PC preset file (O), to reload it and the ms measurements appear in milliseconds instead of measurements. I just did this again and the same thing happened. 

[email protected] 

1) I'm assuming the same thing so I'm not sure how they can make inputting distances in inches relative to each other work. I tried inputting the measurements in reverse (right to left) and it still got them backwards and added delay to the subwoofer? Keep in mind I would not have picked up on this if it weren't for the fact that it sounded way off to me when listening to it. This prompted me to check things and that is when I discovered the time delay in ms being incorrect for the actual speaker distances.

2) You want to delay the speakers closest to you so that the sound from them arrives at your ears at the same time as the speakers that are furthest away relative to each other. In my case the subwoofer is the farthest speaker from my ears so why would I want to delay that speaker when it already takes the most time for the sound from it to get to my ears? 

I may be missing something here so this is why I want the people here who have one to try this for themselves. Try it by inputting the distances in inches first and then do a listening test. Then try it by inputting the time delay by inputting the actual delay in ms using one of the online calculators or the one I posted above and do that same listening test. I'm pretty confident that I'm on to something here whether it be my error or a software thing. Again, this is why I need you people here to check me.


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## minbari

Again. 
1) If you are not setting delay to the sub channel. How is delay getting set?
2) how are you seeing millisecond delay numbers if you set it in inches? (Switching delay measurements erases it)
3) look up Andy W articles on TA. You are not delaying things to make them arrive at the same time as much ad aligning phase. So yes. You will still add sub delay

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## JCsAudio

minbari said:


> Again.
> 1) If you are not setting delay to the sub channel. How is delay getting set?
> 2) how are you seeing millisecond delay numbers if you set it in inches? (Switching delay measurements erases it)
> 3) look up Andy W articles on TA. You are not delaying things to make them arrive at the same time as much ad aligning phase. So yes. You will still add sub delay
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


1) by inputting the distance in inches directly to the Dayton DSP and it comes up with over 7 ms.
2) I just answered this question already in the reply above.


V8toilet said:


> 1) Click on file/load PC preset file (O), to reload it and the ms measurements appear in milliseconds instead of measurements


3) I've read Andy's article (great article) but can do that again in case I'm missing something as i'm not an expert. 

Looking for someone with this DSP to try what I have and post here.


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## rayray881

If your sub is the furthest speaker away, input 0 as the delay. Example, your sub is 60” away, set delay to zero. Next, your right midbass is 55” away. You would subtract 55” from 60” and input 5” for you right midbass delay. Then, if your left midbass is 40” away, subtract 40” from 60” and input 20” as your delay for the left midbass, etc.


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## RRizz

V8toilet said:


> 1) by inputting the distance in inches directly to the Dayton DSP and it comes up with over 7 ms.
> 2) I just answered this question already in the reply above.
> 3) I've read Andy's article (great article) but can do that again in case I'm missing something as i'm not an expert.
> 
> Looking for someone with this DSP to try what I have and post here.


Ok, Heres what I did:
set time delay in Inches to
Channel 1 100
Channel 2 50
channel 4 50
channel 5 25
Saved file as "test file"
Shut everything down, then re-opened fresh (time delay is automatically set in ms )
Loaded "test file" to DSP
heres what I got
Channel 1 7.33ms
Channel 2 3.66ms
Channel 4 3.66ms
Channel 5 1.83ms
No other channels (Sub or otherwise) recieved any type of delay.
All is right in the Dsp.
I suggest you try to duplicate your results. If it indeed does what you say, get a return ticket from PE.


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## minbari

rayray881 said:


> If your sub is the furthest speaker away, input 0 as the delay. Example, your sub is 60” away, set delay to zero. Next, your right midbass is 55” away. You would subtract 55” from 60” and input 5” for you right midbass delay. Then, if your left midbass is 40” away, subtract 40” from 60” and input 20” as your delay for the left midbass, etc.


No. That is not how it works. You put in ALL distances. Nothing should get a distance of zero.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## JCsAudio

What rayray881 is stating is what Andy suggests in his article on time delay, but then goes on to suggest to follow the instructions from the manufacturer for the DSP in setting delay. Unfortunately the manual for the Dayton doesn’t cover this so I went to the online instructions for my JL Twk 88 and it says this: 

“The Setup Tool has fields for entering the distance of each speaker from the listening position. The TüN™ software will automatically calculate the delay necessary to offset these different distances. These will be reflected in the Tune tab and can be trimmed with the Delay Trim control later. Learn more about Time Delay with TüN™ “

So this is what I did to get the ms delay times I posted above. It also happens to be the same distances that the Dayton gets but only reversed in my case and again, inputting the delay in ms makes it all sound correct. In Andy’s article on time delay he states: 

“But what about the sub? *Why do I have to delay everything to match the sub?* Why doesn't the tape measure always generate the right results? How can I make the sub sound like it comes from the front?”

Interestingly the JL Audio tune software has kept the delay for my subwoofer at 0 when I input the distance for the sub (furthest away speaker) at 106 inches, which is how I’m understanding it in Andy’s article on time delay as well. 

RRizz, I tried what you did and came up with the same results, but I’m confused as to what speakers you measured for and why you skipped channel 3? Also, did you measure to the subwoofer and input that distance into the DSP? 

Thanks


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## rayray881

minbari said:


> No. That is not how it works. You put in ALL distances. Nothing should get a distance of zero.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


That’s not how my Dayton dsp works.


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## RRizz

V8toilet said:


> RRizz, I tried what you did and came up with the same results, but I’m confused as to what speakers you measured for and why you skipped channel 3? Also, did you measure to the subwoofer and input that distance into the DSP?
> 
> Thanks


I just threw some random numbers in there, on random channels as a test.


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## RRizz

minbari said:


> No. That is not how it works. You put in ALL distances. Nothing should get a distance of zero.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


 I believe some DSP's will have you enter all values if you are entering Measurements only, and it does the calculations for you. If entering delays in ms, this method is correct. Furthest speaker from you gets 0 delay. (as a starting point, I will add)


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## JamesRC

Guys I’ve only read the last two pages, but I just measure speaker to headrest*, input those distances in the Tracerite calculator (Google it bc I’m posting from my phone), and call it good. 

I compared the Tracerite results to the spreadsheet Andy provided on the Audiofrog site and they were exactly the same. 

I actually stick a paint stir stick between the seat and headrest. It has a spot that matches my listening position since my head’s never actually against the headrest.


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## Noah Bond

Whether or not you put the distance you want to delay by, or the total distance for each speaker, is entirely dependent on the DSP you are using and how it's software is calculating it's delays. Perhaps Geoff can provide more insight on this, but it's my understanding that the DSP delays each speaker by the amount you put in- and does not do any of the calculations for you. Therefore, yes, you're farthest speaker should have a delay of 0.


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## minbari

Noah Bond said:


> Whether or not you put the distance you want to delay by, or the total distance for each speaker, is entirely dependent on the DSP you are using and how it's software is calculating it's delays. Perhaps Geoff can provide more insight on this, but it's my understanding that the DSP delays each speaker by the amount you put in- and does not do any of the calculations for you. Therefore, yes, you're farthest speaker should have a delay of 0.


I did it this way first and could never get the midbass and sub bass to mesh. When I just put in all distances, poof. It just worked

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Noah Bond

I'm away from home at the moment but that's interesting to hear. I'll have a try at it when I get back. My situations a little different though because my right speaker is actually farther than my subwoofer. Never sure if I should measure the distance from the cone of the sub, or the "path" it takes considering it's rear firing in the trunk.


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## minbari

Mine is in the same situation. Right midbass is farthest. Sub is 6 inches behind the seat. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## P0234

Well, I ordered one this weekend. It'll be my first in car dsp. I'm excited.


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## Whiterabbit

Besides the paper specs and extra channels, do you get any extra processing (tuning capability) between dayton and a 2x4 HD, minus FIR? Looks like you get the same old phase/delay/10chPEQ/gain.


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## minbari

Whiterabbit said:


> Besides the paper specs and extra channels, do you get any extra processing (tuning capability) between dayton and a 2x4 HD, minus FIR? Looks like you get the same old phase/delay/10chPEQ/gain.


Don't forget xover.

But no that is what you get. 4in/8out

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Whiterabbit

So, put another way, if you compare the dayron to the 2x4 HD at a very similar price, the only tuning capability you gain with the HD is FIR (maybe 48db xover?) and only thing you gain with the dayton is 2x the channels?

I think the HD lets you process the inputs. Thats not on the dayton, right?


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## JCsAudio

I just took the van for a ride with the new Dayton DSP and I have to say it just sounds incredible. My wife also noticed and told me it sounds so clear compared to before when it had the EQX for the active x-over and HU doing time alignment. I closed my eyes and the voices and instruments sound like they are right on my dash and coming from the correct locations as if they were actually playing in front of me. 

For those of you who are just getting into a DSP, you need to get a microphone and learn how to use REW. Without a tool such as this you will be endlessly trying to get it right. I could not imagine tuning without it. The Dayton 408 DSP is my third DSP now (JL TwK88 x2, Rockford DSR1, and JL FIX) and one can get fantastic results with this DSP in regard to sound quality. 

Now I need to get to work tuning my other vehicle with the JL TwK88 DSP. I should be able to get just as good results.


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## minbari

Whiterabbit said:


> So, put another way, if you compare the dayron to the 2x4 HD at a very similar price, the only tuning capability you gain with the HD is FIR (maybe 48db xover?) and only thing you gain with the dayton is 2x the channels?
> 
> I think the HD lets you process the inputs. Thats not on the dayton, right?


What do you mean by process the inputs?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Mr.Beck

Has anyone had the windows program not let you scroll or resize? I cannot access the T/A functions....still playing with it though.... Also am I the only one who thinks that it should have come with the Bluetooth adapter.... when I was reading about it before ordering, I didn't have to read it all to make up my mind and ordered! I really don't like having to order another component to have control and can't use my laptop for daily....TIA. glad to be here by the way!


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## JamesRC

V8toilet said:


> I just took the van for a ride with the new Dayton DSP and I have to say it just sounds incredible. My wife also noticed and told me it sounds so clear compared to before when it had the EQX for the active x-over and HU doing time alignment. I closed my eyes and the voices and instruments sound like they are right on my dash and coming from the correct locations as if they were actually playing in front of me.
> 
> For those of you who are just getting into a DSP, you need to get a microphone and learn how to use REW. Without a tool such as this you will be endlessly trying to get it right. I could not imagine tuning without it. The Dayton 408 DSP is my third DSP now (JL TwK88 x2, Rockford DSR1, and JL FIX) and one can get fantastic results with this DSP in regard to sound quality.
> 
> Now I need to get to work tuning my other vehicle with the JL TwK88 DSP. I should be able to get just as good results.


That's awesome! I'm glad you're getting such satisfying results.


----------



## JamesRC

Mr.Beck said:


> Has anyone had the windows program not let you scroll or resize? I cannot access the T/A functions....still playing with it though.... Also am I the only one who thinks that it should have come with the Bluetooth adapter.... when I was reading about it before ordering, I didn't have to read it all to make up my mind and ordered! I really don't like having to order another component to have control and can't use my laptop for daily....TIA. glad to be here by the way!


It looks like the DSP is $150, the bluetooth is $30. That's a pretty great deal, man. I wouldn't be too begrudged about it.  I'd love to be able to adjust my Helix from my phone and would gladly pay $30 to do it.


----------



## Ge_off_me

Mr.Beck said:


> Has anyone had the windows program not let you scroll or resize? I cannot access the T/A functions....still playing with it though.... Also am I the only one who thinks that it should have come with the Bluetooth adapter.... when I was reading about it before ordering, I didn't have to read it all to make up my mind and ordered! I really don't like having to order another component to have control and can't use my laptop for daily....TIA. glad to be here by the way!


Not everybody wants the adapter, why make them pay for it?


----------



## Ge_off_me

Whiterabbit said:


> So, put another way, if you compare the dayron to the 2x4 HD at a very similar price, the only tuning capability you gain with the HD is FIR (maybe 48db xover?) and only thing you gain with the dayton is 2x the channels?
> 
> I think the HD lets you process the inputs. Thats not on the dayton, right?


As far as processing power, sure.

The DSP-408 offers far more convenience and compared to virtually every Minidsp product I've heard and used, a lower noise floor.


----------



## JamesRC

Guys, FWIW, I totally misunderstood Mr. Beck. He meant that the bluetooth adapter should have been bundled because he didn't see it on the order screen, not because of the price. Sorry!


----------



## Ge_off_me

JamesRC said:


> Guys, FWIW, I totally misunderstood Mr. Beck. He meant that the bluetooth adapter should have been bundled because he didn't see it on the order screen, not because of the price. Sorry!


The optional adapter is mentioned several times in the copy and also linked, not to mention it is also found in the frequently bought together items.

There isn't much we can do about people not reading


----------



## Whiterabbit

minbari said:


> What do you mean by process the inputs?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


HD has a set of PEQ filters for the inputs as well as the outputs.


----------



## Whiterabbit

Ge_off_me said:


> As far as processing power, sure.
> 
> The DSP-408 offers far more convenience and compared to virtually every Minidsp product I've heard and used, a lower noise floor.


100% understood and agreed.

But, for those of us who completely discount convenience for the right solution, one must consider the differences with convenience discounted.

Noise floor is huge though. So is 2x the I/O (comparing equal dollars). So is FIR, but the barrier of entry is high on that one, so it needs to be understood, but discounted initially too. Same with the DSP specs, which are interesting, but not likely to be audible in a car, and even less so when the engine is running. Which is how 90% of competitions go, out here.

That leaves standard processing comparisons as the primary way to compare option A and B. Which makes it harder to justify the HD over the Dayton.

I also just found out the miniDC cannot power the 2x4HD. The alternative is equally cheap, but twice as large, and being a brick power supply is suitably unattractive. The major it is just "convenience", which we already addressed, but it should be noted that miniDSP has no proper solution for messy 12V applications (aka car) for the HD.


----------



## minbari

Whiterabbit said:


> HD has a set of PEQ filters for the inputs as well as the outputs.


Ah. The dayton doesn't do that

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Whiterabbit

It's a useful feature. For example, using individual output PEQ to control your tweeter, midrange, midbass, and subwoofer independently, then using the input side to shape the whole response.

If you have a sufficiently powerful processor, you can even sum the channel controls so that you can apply, say, input bands 1-5 independently to help shape the overall characteristics of the left and right response separately, then bands 6-10 apply to both sides simultaneously to really zero in on tonal balance.

I'm guessing even the 2x4 HD can't do that, but other processors can, and boy it is really useful. That said, and it being unavailable to these sub $200 processors, a diminished capability of filtering the inputs is really, really handy compared to not having the capability at all.


----------



## minbari

Whiterabbit said:


> It's a useful feature. For example, using individual output PEQ to control your tweeter, midrange, midbass, and subwoofer independently, then using the input side to shape the whole response.
> 
> *If you have a sufficiently powerful processor, you can even sum the channel controls so that you can apply, say, input bands 1-5 independently to help shape the overall characteristics of the left and right response separately, then bands 6-10 apply to both sides simultaneously to really zero in on tonal balance.*
> 
> I'm guessing even the 2x4 HD can't do that, but other processors can, and boy it is really useful. That said, and it being unavailable to these sub $200 processors, a diminished capability of filtering the inputs is really, really handy compared to not having the capability at all.


Dayton does have an input mixer. You can put any or none of the inputs on any output from 0 to 100%

Is this what you mean?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Theslaking

Hopefully I missing something obvious. I'm trying to set this up to run a subwoofer. Basically a LOC. I'm running the rear speaker wires to ch 7+8 of the high level harness. I have the switch to spk. It powers on and turns on the amp but no output. If I go in to the mixer tab I only can find the option to select the 4 analog inputs which obviously I'm not using. I've verified the sub amp is working. What am I missing?


----------



## minbari

Theslaking said:


> Hopefully I missing something obvious. I'm trying to set this up to run a subwoofer. Basically a LOC. I'm running the rear speaker wires to ch 7+8 of the high level harness. I have the switch to spk. It powers on and turns on the amp but no output. If I go in to the mixer tab I only can find the option to select the 4 analog inputs which obviously I'm not using. I've verified the sub amp is working. What am I missing?


Those 4 inputs are the same weather you use RCA or hi level. Its all analog.

Map input 3 and 4 to output 7 and 8

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Theslaking

Ah... Makes sense. I will try that after lunch. Thank you sir.


----------



## Ge_off_me

Y'all are doing my job for me, this is nice.


----------



## OneGun

I've asked P/E questions related to set-up/installation already, and maybe in this thread too, but now I noticed that the "turn on" switch has options for "rem", "spk", and "RCA". 

I have not installed my DSP-408 yet, but hope to do so within the next few weeks. So of course, I'd like to do it with the least amount of complications possible. 

That being said, if I select "RCA" as the turn-on source, do I need to connect anything to the red wire during installation? 

I looked at the wiring pigtail and see there's a yellow (12 volt hot-at-all-times, a red (12 volt hot-with-key-on), and a blue (remote out). 

I was thinking I needed to give the red wire an input, so I was going to just run my amp's current remote wire to it, then feed the DSP's remote out wire back to my amp. 

But if it can turn on via an RCA sense, do I even need to do this? And if so, do I just need to feed the yellow wire with a hot-at-all-times signal?


----------



## Ge_off_me

OneGun said:


> I've asked P/E questions related to set-up/installation already, and maybe in this thread too, but now I noticed that the "turn on" switch has options for "rem", "spk", and "RCA".
> 
> I have not installed my DSP-408 yet, but hope to do so within the next few weeks. So of course, I'd like to do it with the least amount of complications possible.
> 
> That being said, if I select "RCA" as the turn-on source, do I need to connect anything to the red wire during installation?
> 
> I looked at the wiring pigtail and see there's a yellow (12 volt hot-at-all-times, a red (12 volt hot-with-key-on), and a blue (remote out).
> 
> I was thinking I needed to give the red wire an input, so I was going to just run my amp's current remote wire to it, then feed the DSP's remote out wire back to my amp.
> 
> But if it can turn on via an RCA sense, do I even need to do this? And if so, do I just need to feed the yellow wire with a hot-at-all-times signal?


In a car, you want to set it to remote input if you plan on using the remote wire. If you want to just use the RCA input method, it will cut out between songs as there will be no information. If you don't mind that, using the RCA method is a possibility.


----------



## OneGun

Ge_off_me said:


> In a car, you want to set it to remote input if you plan on using the remote wire. If you want to just use the RCA input method, it will cut out between songs as there will be no information. If you don't mind that, using the RCA method is a possibility.


Ahh... 10-4. Thanks for the info/quick reply. 

Would be cool if you could just have it work 100% with the RCAs though. Like maybe a firmware update where there'd be a 15-20 second cushion for the RCA laps before it shut off. 

But at this point, I'm going to run a remote to it I guess.


----------



## minbari

Ge_off_me said:


> In a car, you want to set it to remote input if you plan on using the remote wire. If you want to just use the RCA input method, it will cut out between songs as there will be no information. If you don't mind that, using the RCA method is a possibility.


No offence, but what practical use does this have? Even in home audio I don't want it shutting off instantly between songs.

Glad I went remote wire

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ge_off_me

OneGun said:


> Ahh... 10-4. Thanks for the info/quick reply.
> 
> Would be cool if you could just have it work 100% with the RCAs though. Like maybe a firmware update where there'd be a 15-20 second cushion for the RCA laps before it shut off.
> 
> But at this point, I'm going to run a remote to it I guess.


That's something we could look into, but I'm not sure how much we would change something like that.



minbari said:


> No offence, but what practical use does this have? Even in home audio I don't want it shutting off instantly between songs.
> 
> Glad I went remote wire
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


It's something we didn't see a need to change so that way the DSP didn't stay on for long periods of time when not in use. It doesn't happen very often in a home setting, because you see more zero-bit info in movies than you do in music. Either way, it's not simply a second or two that makes it turn off, it is an elongated pause in playback that causes it.


----------



## minbari

Got ya. Pretty sure That is how the audio control unit I have works as well, it just waits 20 seconds

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Whiterabbit

minbari said:


> Dayton does have an input mixer. You can put any or none of the inputs on any output from 0 to 100%
> 
> Is this what you mean?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


No. I was talking about PEQ.


----------



## Whiterabbit

Ge_off_me said:


> Y'all are doing my job for me, this is nice.


Only if it translates to sales


----------



## OneGun

Ge_off_me said:


> That's something we could look into, but I'm not sure how much we would change something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> It's something we didn't see a need to change so that way the DSP didn't stay on for long periods of time when not in use. It doesn't happen very often in a home setting, because you see more zero-bit info in movies than you do in music. Either way, it's not simply a second or two that makes it turn off, it is an elongated pause in playback that causes it.



Now I'm intrigued. I may experiment during my installation. 

Or if our esteemed rep could do some bench testing to see what the delay really looks like. 

Either way, thanks for the info/feedback.


----------



## Ge_off_me

Whiterabbit said:


> Only if it translates to sales


I have a personal obligation to tend to this unit as well


----------



## Ge_off_me

OneGun said:


> Now I'm intrigued. I may experiment during my installation.
> 
> Or if our esteemed rep could do some bench testing to see what the delay really looks like.
> 
> Either way, thanks for the info/feedback.


I highly doubt I will be able to test it this week, there is A LOT happening at PE, so you guys should keep an eye on the website and maybe the facebook over the next few weeks and months


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## OneGun

Ge_off_me said:


> I highly doubt I will be able to test it this week, there is A LOT happening at PE, so you guys should keep an eye on the website and maybe the facebook over the next few weeks and months


Unacceptable. Stop everything immediately and shift all efforts of the organization to resolve my extremely niche/specific inquiry regarding one of hundreds of products you sell.


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## RRizz

Whiterabbit said:


> No. I was talking about PEQ.


I can use the EQ in my head unit for the same result I would guess, but at the end of the day, is all that eq necessary? when running a 3 way + Sub, you already have 40 bands of PEQ


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## minbari

^^^ kinda what I think too. I have a 2way + sub and use about half the eq bands

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Whiterabbit

No such thing as too much processing, provided it is applied correctly.


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## ab12c3d4

hi guys, interesting thread. 

once you install this unit. do I have to zero all settings on my Head Unit. and never play with them? even fader and balance. or can you also use your head units settings on top of this?

thanks


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## RRizz

although you should not have to, all your head units functions will..........function


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## OneGun

ab12c3d4 said:


> hi guys, interesting thread.
> 
> once you install this unit. do I have to zero all settings on my Head Unit. and never play with them? even fader and balance. or can you also use your head units settings on top of this?
> 
> thanks



That is my understanding of DSP's in general. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the idea is that you flatten everything in your HU settings, then all settings of all types are adjusted via the DSP. 

So the DSP can do everything your HU can and more.


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## ab12c3d4

OneGun said:


> That is my understanding of DSP's in general. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the idea is that you flatten everything in your HU settings, then all settings of all types are adjusted via the DSP.
> 
> So the DSP can do everything your HU can and more.


that's what i thought, just wanted to make sure.

thanks


----------



## Whiterabbit

ab12c3d4 said:


> hi guys, interesting thread.
> 
> once you install this unit. do I have to zero all settings on my Head Unit. and never play with them? even fader and balance. or can you also use your head units settings on top of this?
> 
> thanks


you can use all those functions too.

Some ideas:

hook up all outputs to the dayton, and route front L and R to your stage, and rear L and R to the rearfill as L-R and R-L. process as per best you can for surround effects. CD player is flat.

Later, while driving, you hear some abberation or something you think needs to get fixed, like surrounds too hot or something. No problem. Because of the way you set your stereo up, just use the fader to fix the gain.

Later, at home, you can re-open the dayton and fix the gain, then re-flatten the CD player.

-------------------

Another idea, you flatten the CD player and tune up the dayton till you run out of processing power, then bring in the CD player to get more tuning capability.

----------------

Let's say for rearfill you want to use the haas effect. That's what, maybe 25 ms of delay you want to dial? this is a ballpark. I think the dayton stops at 9, right? In that case, if your CD player has delay, you can delay the rears by 15 ms and max out the dayton at 9 and you have your haas effect in place. This again requires that you segregate front and rear signal going to the dayton.

----------------------

Another is if the CD player has an EQ you can use. For ease of imagination, consider a CD player that has a 31 band GEQ. So, after you correct each individual speaker via PEQ in the dayton, you still have an unused 31 band GEQ on flat that you now have access to to shape the overall system response. That's a handy and powerful tool.


----------



## Whiterabbit

Here's yet something else to consider.

Let's pretend you ALREADY have a JBL MS8, but hate the fact that you cannot post-process the signal, and the sweetspot is too tight for what you want, since the headphones are only in 3 spots when you hit calibrate.

Add the dayton and route four signals from the MS8: L, R, C, and S. Now you have a 10 band PEQ at your fingertips for post-logic-7 equalization of your mains, center, and subwoofer. Even though you won't be using the time delay or gains at all.

I can go on. How about passing one dayton to another dayton? dayton 1 covers a 3-way stage, then passes to dayton 2 for a 3-way center, sub, and 2-way rear-fill. Or arrays. or... or... or.... ....and each pass-thru gives you a 10 band PEQ on the INPUT side of the next dayton in the chain for response shaping post driver-correction.

All for less than $400 out the door including wiring and interconnects.

------------------------------------

There are 1000 ways to play this game. It's not unique to the dayton, either. However, given processors a decade ago were in the $300-$900 price range, ganging up multiples became cost prohibitive. Products like the miniDSP and now the dayton are providing a low cost alternative.


----------



## Theslaking

Minbari your suggestion was on the right track. However I have a messed up DSP too. Just like others. Input 1 controls channel 7 on my dsp. So yeah the harness or DSP is all crossed up.


----------



## minbari

Theslaking said:


> Minbari your suggestion was on the right track. However I have a messed up DSP too. Just like others. Input 1 controls channel 7 on my dsp. So yeah the harness or DSP is all crossed up.


although it shouldnt be this way. it cant take more than 5 minutes to remap the inputs. once you know what input wire goes to which speaker location, then use the mixer to put the outputs in the correct location.


----------



## Reid1980

Even with processing is it worth it having rear fill speakers. I took mine out before I started playing my head units EQ and Time delay. Should I even consider hooking them back up when I get this dayton? Have people focusing purely on SQ found them useful? Ive seen a bunch of cars that are competing and placing using some.


----------



## minbari

Reid1980 said:


> Even with processing is it worth it having rear fill speakers. I took mine out before I started playing my head units EQ and Time delay. Should I even consider hooking them back up when I get this dayton? Have people focusing purely on SQ found them useful? Ive seen a bunch of cars that are competing and placing using some.


I am sure if it is done right, you can make it work.

personally, I never do. get a good front stage and I am happy.


----------



## Whiterabbit

Reid1980 said:


> Even with processing is it worth it having rear fill speakers. .


Subjective question.

Is it worth having a $600 camera and a 60" TV? Not in my house. Maybe it is in yours.

Some might even ask if it is worth having a non-stock car stereo. Not many on this board tho


----------



## Reid1980

Whiterabbit said:


> Reid1980 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even with processing is it worth it having rear fill speakers. .
> 
> 
> 
> Subjective question.
> 
> Is it worth having a $600 camera and a 60" TV? Not in my house. Maybe it is in yours.
> 
> Some might even ask if it is worth having a non-stock car stereo. Not many on this board tho <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...



I meant sound wise not worth it based on the money it cost. Like should i waste my time trying to integrate them back into my system or does it ultimately just mess with the front stage. Right now im trying to reduce resonating in my car panels and its proving to be annoying seeing as i spent hours working on the doors and rear deck lid. Now im going to rip apart my car again when i get this Dayton processor in and start adding more sound absorbing and deadening materials to the car on top of what ive already done. Just got in some tesa tape so everything is getting wrapped. 

$600 for a camera is cheap and 60" tvs are small ???


----------



## Gianotti

Does anyone have any presets I can load? Trying to tune this and cant get it just right, i know every vehicle is different, but even a base to start off? Running factory radio from a 13 Ram- 2 3in in dash and 4 6x9 in doors all infinity refs. Off alpine mrp f300 and type R 10 off mrp m500 in a sealed box. Any help would be great thanks!


----------



## OneGun

Reid1980 said:


> I meant sound wise not worth it based on the money it cost. Like should i waste my time trying to integrate them back into my system or does it ultimately just mess with the front stage. Right now im trying to reduce resonating in my car panels and its proving to be annoying seeing as i spent hours working on the doors and rear deck lid. *Now im going to rip apart my car again* when i get this Dayton processor in and start adding more sound absorbing and deadening materials to the car on top of what ive already done. Just got in some tesa tape so everything is getting wrapped.
> 
> $600 for a camera is cheap and 60" tvs are small ???



Welcome to the club bro. I feel like at this point, I can just look at my vehicles door panels and they could just fall right off.


Anyway, with regard to rear fils, I had no idea people didn't run rear speakers until I came to this forum. Read about it and was very skeptical.... thought these bro's here were fk'n nuts. Then I got some decent 2-way components up front, disabled the rears. Now I see the light.

Will probably never run rears again.


----------



## HeyWaj10

A couple of questions with this unit, if you guys could help me understand:

1.) From my Kenwood DDX395, I have RCA outs for the FRONT and SUB currently going to my Arc KS300.4 amp. I'm considering adding a sub amp and going active with my front comps via the Arc. Am I correct to assume I would then use the FRONT & SUB RCA outputs into the Dayton DSP, which would then distribute those signals out as TWEETER, MIDS, and SUB to the respective amp inputs?

2.) Regarding splitting my remote signal wire. The DSP power harness diagram shows a remote signal IN and remote signal OUT. Does that mean I connect the remote signal wire from the HU to the IN wire, and then be able to send remote signal to the 2 amps via the DSP's remote OUT?


----------



## Truthunter

HeyWaj10 said:


> A couple of questions with this unit, if you guys could help me understand:
> 
> 1.) From my Kenwood DDX395, I have RCA outs for the FRONT and SUB currently going to my Arc KS300.4 amp. I'm considering adding a sub amp and going active with my front comps via the Arc. Am I correct to assume I would then use the FRONT & SUB RCA outputs into the Dayton DSP, which would then distribute those signals out as TWEETER, MIDS, and SUB to the respective amp inputs?
> 
> 2.) Regarding splitting my remote signal wire. The DSP power harness diagram shows a remote signal IN and remote signal OUT. Does that mean I connect the remote signal wire from the HU to the IN wire, and then be able to send remote signal to the 2 amps via the DSP's remote OUT?


1) Yes
2) Yes


----------



## Mitchc1113

HeyWaj10 said:


> A couple of questions with this unit, if you guys could help me understand:
> 
> 1.) From my Kenwood DDX395, I have RCA outs for the FRONT and SUB currently going to my Arc KS300.4 amp. I'm considering adding a sub amp and going active with my front comps via the Arc. Am I correct to assume I would then use the FRONT & SUB RCA outputs into the Dayton DSP, which would then distribute those signals out as TWEETER, MIDS, and SUB to the respective amp inputs?
> 
> 2.) Regarding splitting my remote signal wire. The DSP power harness diagram shows a remote signal IN and remote signal OUT. Does that mean I connect the remote signal wire from the HU to the IN wire, and then be able to send remote signal to the 2 amps via the DSP's remote OUT?


Yes that's what you'll do. HU to DSP remote in, remote out to your amps. Now you'll have to do 1 of a few options to hook up both amps since the DSP has only 1 remote out. You can take the remote out wire from dsp and wire it to a relay and then have 2 remote wires coming out the relay to each amp. #2 connect 2 remote wires to the 1 dsp remote out wire, could use a butt connector, solder or use a t tap. #3 Run the remote out wire as a single wire to your amps remote in then daisy chain (jump it) by having another remote wire coming out of the amp and going to your other amps remote in. So 1 amp will have 2 remote wires in the remote input. A relay is probably the best and correct way to do it, but any of these options will work just fine.


----------



## Whiterabbit

No need for a relay. Don't overcomplicate it. Ganging up 2 wires to power two amps from the remote out from the dayton will do.

Enjoy playing with active processing. You'll be opening up a whole new world of good sound in your car.

Don't forget to follow Andy's tuning guide for 1-seat tuning of a 2-channel stereo at some point, to see what you can do with the DSP to improve on CD player-amp-passive XO-speakers signal distribution.

https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-c...Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf


----------



## OneGun

Absolutely no need for a relay of any kind. Typically relays are used to allow a switch or other input using small current to control and output that utilizes a larger amount of current. Not the case here. 

I'd connect two small gauge wires to the one remote output from the DSP using a heat shrink butt connector. Just put two wires in the out side of the butt connector and run one of each to each of your amps. 

Done.


----------



## ckirocz28

Reid1980 said:


> Even with processing is it worth it having rear fill speakers. I took mine out before I started playing my head units EQ and Time delay. Should I even consider hooking them back up when I get this dayton? Have people focusing purely on SQ found them useful? Ive seen a bunch of cars that are competing and placing using some.


If you want it, yes. I had bandpassed, differential, delayed rear fill, because I wanted it. I then decided to go fully active on my front stage without adding an amp so I ditched the rear fill. I can honestly say I liked it, but I like the fully active front stage better and don't miss the rear fill one bit. In fact, my front stage gives a better surround/ambiance effect than the rear fill did. So if you want it go for it, but don't waste any money on rear fill. Use existing equipment to try it or buy equipment that can be repurposed later.


----------



## RRizz

Just a few things.... The bluetooth connecting reared its ugly head on me a number of times. Re-boot phone, nope. shut everything down, reconnect......maybe. Get disgusted and walk away, an hour or so later, connects no problem.
3 times thus far, no sub output. sub amp on, no signal. shut it down, turn it back on, no signal. mute sub outs, and un-mute, no signal. shut it down, power back up. Yay! subs working again.
little annoying glitchy things.


----------



## Ge_off_me

RRizz said:


> Just a few things.... The bluetooth connecting reared its ugly head on me a number of times. Re-boot phone, nope. shut everything down, reconnect......maybe. Get disgusted and walk away, an hour or so later, connects no problem.
> 3 times thus far, no sub output. sub amp on, no signal. shut it down, turn it back on, no signal. mute sub outs, and un-mute, no signal. shut it down, power back up. Yay! subs working again.
> little annoying glitchy things.


That's strange, have you tried using a different device to see if it is your phone that is causing the issue?


----------



## RRizz

I have not. Oddly enough, the sub issue occurred prior to me connecting to the DSP. This happened right at startup of vehicle.


----------



## Ge_off_me

RRizz said:


> I have not. Oddly enough, the sub issue occurred prior to me connecting to the DSP. This happened right at startup of vehicle.


Odd, let me know if it happens again.


----------



## minbari

RRizz said:


> I have not. Oddly enough, the sub issue occurred prior to me connecting to the DSP. This happened right at startup of vehicle.


Are you JUST using the sub out or other outputs as well? Do those work?
Do you have streaming turned on?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RRizz

minbari said:


> Are you JUST using the sub out or other outputs as well? Do those work?
> Do you have streaming turned on?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Using 6 channels at the moment. Subs on channel 1+2.
I have not used the streaming function at all yet.


----------



## OneGun

I'm hoping to get my 408 installation completed this week, but want to ask this question... I currently have (x6) RCA inputs going from my HU into my 5-Channel amp. (x2) Front, L/R, (x2) Rear, L/R, (x2) Sub. 

Since the 408 only has 4 inputs, based on recommendations here, I'm going to give it (x1) left and (x1) right signal, then both the subs. 

This will leave me with (x2) disconnected RCAs (a left and a right). 

Do I need to do anything special to secure the ones that will be unplugged? I've seen RCA "caps" online, but those seem to be for plugging into an unused HU RCA and have a male plug. 

Does anything like this exist to cap off an unused cable? 

Or do I just neatly tape it up or use non-adhesive lined heat shrink to cover the ends then hide them somewhere?


----------



## RRizz

I would at the very least tape them up neatly, and tuck them away where they wont be disturbed.


----------



## minbari

RRizz said:


> Using 6 channels at the moment. Subs on channel 1+2.
> I have not used the streaming function at all yet.


Reason I asked. If you have streaming just turned on and connect the bt from your phone. It switches to bt streaming and not rca input. Even if you are not streaming any audio

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

My iPad will connect no problem but not my iPhone, yet my iPhone has worked before. Strange!


----------



## Theslaking

OneGun said:


> Do I need to do anything special to secure the ones that will be unplugged? I've seen RCA "caps" online, but those seem to be for plugging into an unused HU RCA and have a male plug.
> 
> Does anything like this exist to cap off an unused cable?
> 
> Or do I just neatly tape it up or use non-adhesive lined heat shrink to cover the ends then hide them somewhere?


Like these?

https://m.ebay.com/itm/20-pcs-Noise...018038?hash=item2aa7edfbf6:g:YUUAAMXQS6pRuPp0

Or these?

https://m.ebay.com/itm/20-RCA-Phono...997022?hash=item19f44ef29e:g:ELUAAOSwPe1UJghD


----------



## OneGun

Theslaking said:


> Like these?
> 
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/20-pcs-Noise...018038?hash=item2aa7edfbf6:g:YUUAAMXQS6pRuPp0
> 
> Or these?
> 
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/20-RCA-Phono...997022?hash=item19f44ef29e:g:ELUAAOSwPe1UJghD



I found the type in your first link there, but those appear to be used for connecting to a female connection, not the male plug end. 

The second link doesn't really specify... looks just like a hollow plastic cap, which may be fine, I just wish I could find one that makes me 100% certain it's what I need. 

Thanks though.


----------



## Theslaking

Are you talking about the unused inputs an outputs on the DSP? Because that's exactly what the gold one's are for. I've bought those exact ones from that seller. I have sets from 10+ years ago and they are still like new. Sometimes gold doesn't color match so I linked the red and white ones. I've also used that type before. The plastic based ones fall off. The rubber based ones are great.


----------



## OneGun

Theslaking said:


> Are you talking about the unused inputs an outputs on the DSP? Because that's exactly what the gold one's are for. I've bought those exact ones from that seller. I have sets from 10+ years ago and they are still like new. Sometimes gold doesn't color match so I linked the red and white ones. I've also used that type before. The plastic based ones fall off. The rubber based ones are great.



No, installing this will leave me with 2 unused RCA cables that will then be unplugged. 

There are currently 6 RCAs coming from my HU that are no directly connected to my 5-channel amp. 

But when I put the Dayton in front of the amp, 2 of those 6 inputs won't get plugged in. So I'll just have 2 unused input cables disconnected. 

I could just remove them from the vehicle altogether, but that's way too much work. 

But no, I just want to cap the male ends of what will be unused RCA cables.

I hope that makes sense.


----------



## Theslaking

Yep. They have those on eBay too. Search rca caps. I seen some when I was finding those links.


----------



## Gianotti

Hooked up my Dayton DSP on my factory Ram radio, and now BT calls come through but cant hear them? BT audio works fine. ALSO what page in the thread is a BASE line starting point i can load to my DSP to start with?


----------



## minbari

Gianotti said:


> Hooked up my Dayton DSP on my factory Ram radio, and now BT calls come through but cant hear them? BT audio works fine. ALSO what page in the thread is a BASE line starting point i can load to my DSP to start with?


I don't think that BT module will route phone calls only BT audio. Look on your phone when it connects and see if it says phone calls and audio.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gianotti

minbari said:


> I don't think that BT module will route phone calls only BT audio. Look on your phone when it connects and see if it says phone calls and audio.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


NO i dont have the dayton audio BT dongle. im saying my facotry radio BT. when i have a LOC installed before the dsp, phone calls worked...


----------



## minbari

Gianotti said:


> NO i dont have the dayton audio BT dongle. im saying my facotry radio BT. when i have a LOC installed before the dsp, phone calls worked...


Should make no difference. Unless audio for the phone is routed through a speaker you didn't connect to the dsp?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gianotti

minbari said:


> Should make no difference. Unless audio for the phone is routed through a speaker you didn't connect to the dsp?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


i ran 2 lines of 9 line back to the dsp and my amp. and cut the facotry wiring harness behind the radio. the speaker wires goto the amp. and the wires that came out of the back of the radio goto the DSP. when someone calls in i cant here them.


----------



## Theslaking

Unless the factory hu sends the audio to be processed where he tapped in for the dsp and phone call audio doesn't get sent for processing via factory and just gets sent directly to the speaker. Or something along those lines. If phone audio never makes top the dsp well...


----------



## Eugene_biker




----------



## minbari

Gianotti said:


> i ran 2 lines of 9 line back to the dsp and my amp. and cut the facotry wiring harness behind the radio. the speaker wires goto the amp. and the wires that came out of the back of the radio goto the DSP. when someone calls in i cant here them.


Then prolly 1 or 2 of the other 7 were used for phone.

LOC and DSP do nothing but process the audio that come in

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## minbari

Eugene_biker said:


>




Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gianotti

Also, does anyone have a base to start off of, something i could drop and drag to my dsp? im still working on tuning mine and these dsp's are new to me.


----------



## SilentWrath

Gianotti said:


> Also, does anyone have a base to start off of, something i could drop and drag to my dsp? im still working on tuning mine and these dsp's are new to me.


It would be impossible for someone to give you a base without knowing what equipment you've got and how you have your inputs and outputs set up. Even then you can't really have a base EQ because you need measurements for that and same with time alignment.


----------



## Gianotti

ok so i did find out that my BT is working but is very very faint. So I was thinking, my ram has 6 speakers ( 2 3in in dash, 2 6x9 in fronts 2 6x9s in rear doors ) it seems the dash speakers and front doors run together. and the dash speakers seem to be the BT speaker when ppl talk to me. I was gonna run the dash speakers off 2 channels and the front doors off 2 channels on my 4 channel amp, then let the factory radio run the rear speakers, hoping the dsp would notice and let the BT come in cleaner and louder? ALSO does the DSP really need all the inputs from the factory radio, cant i just run 1 set of speaker line in to it?


----------



## RRizz

you need to run at least a right and a left to the dsp


----------



## rcg703

I'm setting the Dayton up in my F-150 now and was going to only run inputs from my front two channels but then decided to run all 4 channels to the DSP so that no factory signals are lost. My front channels will output to my tweets and mids and my rear channels will output to my subs. Everything should still be retained.


----------



## RRizz

Also, if in fact your dash speakers are the only ones that work with your BT, you have to use them for the dsp inputs. (unless you use the BT dongle) Only issue there is whether the dash speakers are crossed over at the speaker itself, or inside the head unit. If its inside the head unit, you will not be using a full range signal. No Bueno.


----------



## OneGun

rcg703 said:


> I'm setting the Dayton up in my F-150 now and was going to only run inputs from my front two channels but then decided to run all 4 channels to the DSP so that no factory signals are lost. My front channels will output to my tweets and mids and my rear channels will output to my subs. Everything should still be retained.


It's my understanding that this is not ideal. From what I was informed, it's ideal to run (x1) left signal and (x1) right signal, front or rear, doesn't matter. Just give it (x1) full range right and (x1) full range left. 

Then run at least (x1) of your sub inputs into it. 

AFAIK, there is no difference in front and rear signals. Both are the same. But the sub signals, apparently, are different. 

At least that is my understanding and that's how I was told to configure mine. 

If the DSP gets a full right and a full left signal, it can then output that signal out multiple output channels. It doesn't need redundant inputs like what you're describing (AFAIK).


----------



## Whiterabbit

Has nothing to do with being ideal, assuming all signals are full range.

One takes twice as many RCA cables, and gives you the ability to independently adjust sub volume relative to the stage directly form the CD player.

The other requires half as many RCA cables and thus a much simpler installation and setup, and does not provide for independent volume adjustment.

----------------

FOR MY CAR, I don't need the independent volume adjustment, and I appreciate the wiring simplicity. Your car may be different.


----------



## rcg703

Some of my system sounds come from the rear channels so I figure I'd need to include them as an input so I don't lose them.


----------



## OneGun

Whiterabbit said:


> Has nothing to do with being ideal, assuming all signals are full range.
> 
> One takes twice as many RCA cables, and gives you the ability to independently adjust sub volume relative to the stage directly form the CD player.
> 
> The other requires half as many RCA cables and thus a much simpler installation and setup, and does not provide for independent volume adjustment.


I don't follow what you're saying. What configuration are you suggesting is best considering there are (x4) available inputs and typically (x6) available outputs from an aftermarket HU?

I asked a similar question earlier in this thread and was advised it's best to give (x2) full range signals, one right and one left, then also give both sub inputs. 

Are you saying that all that is needed is (x2) full range signals period?


----------



## RRizz

Getting overcomplicated.... A left and right full range is all you need, Unless your HU has separate subwoofer volume that you want to retain. Then you need R,L, and Sub inputs.


----------



## OneGun

RRizz said:


> Getting overcomplicated.... A left and right full range is all you need, Unless your HU has separate subwoofer volume that you want to retain. Then you need R,L, and Sub inputs.


Thanks. That makes sense. 

But the DSP could, if you so chose, adjust the sub volume too, right? 

Using the DSP's sub volume control vs. the HU's would only be a matter of preference then, correct?


----------



## RRizz

Correct


----------



## Vmax911

Well the eBay 15% off coupon was too tempting for me, so I have one of these on the way. 

Looking forward to trying the app interface and blue tooth streaming directly to the DSP.


----------



## rcg703

Vmax911 said:


> Well the eBay 15% off coupon was too tempting for me, so I have one of these on the way.
> 
> Looking forward to trying the app interface and blue tooth streaming directly to the DSP.


Did you get the USB bluetooth dongle? You'll need that for streaming.


----------



## RRizz

I have Just completed setting up an Return Auth. on my unit. (I'm getting it replaced)
I have been troubleshootingthis issue for a few days now, and can't get it figured out.
I was getting breakup on my midbass drivers that I couldnt shake, without putting any real power in them. (brand new tm65v2's)
My Master volume was at -10db, and if I increased the level on my midbass channels to more than -15, It started breaking up. I thought it may be localized to just those 2 channels, so I went to my 2 empty channels, same issue.
Then I proceeded to try all 8 channels. every one the same. I swapped Amplifier, same issue. I swapped speakers, same issue. Definitely an issue in the DSP iself.
Oddly enough, the distortion did not occur on either my dash speakers, or my subwoofer on any of those channels. It seemed to be strictly frequency dependent.
I used an RCA splitter to bypass the DSP Directly to the amp inputs for my Midbass, and the issue disappeared.
Aside from that, everything functioned as it should, and I'm hoping it was just a fluke Bad unit.


----------



## OneGun

Theslaking said:


> Yep. They have those on eBay too. Search rca caps. I seen some when I was finding those links.



So just to update and possibly help others, I found what I feel is the cleanest and most cost effective solution to capping/deadheading the (x2) RCA cables that will no longer be connected. 

Since the ends of the cables are male, I ordered a set of female-to-female RCA couplers. It's a 6 pack, but I'll only use 2 for now. I'll just stick them on the end of the open/disconnected male cable ends. 

Then, on the end of those, I found these silicone female RCA dust covers.

I think this will look nicer than tape and for less than $10 shipped via Amazon Prime, I'm happy. 

A picky thing, I realize, but I like paying attention to detail.


----------



## Ge_off_me

RRizz said:


> I have Just completed setting up an Return Auth. on my unit. (I'm getting it replaced)
> I have been troubleshootingthis issue for a few days now, and can't get it figured out.
> I was getting breakup on my midbass drivers that I couldnt shake, without putting any real power in them. (brand new tm65v2's)
> My Master volume was at -10db, and if I increased the level on my midbass channels to more than -15, It started breaking up. I thought it may be localized to just those 2 channels, so I went to my 2 empty channels, same issue.
> Then I proceeded to try all 8 channels. every one the same. I swapped Amplifier, same issue. I swapped speakers, same issue. Definitely an issue in the DSP iself.
> Oddly enough, the distortion did not occur on either my dash speakers, or my subwoofer on any of those channels. It seemed to be strictly frequency dependent.
> I used an RCA splitter to bypass the DSP Directly to the amp inputs for my Midbass, and the issue disappeared.
> Aside from that, everything functioned as it should, and I'm hoping it was just a fluke Bad unit.


That's a strange issue that I've never heard of from any DSP. I'll check the unit out personally when you send it back. I hope the new one works out for you.


----------



## Truthunter

RRizz said:


> I have Just completed setting up an Return Auth. on my unit. (I'm getting it replaced)
> I have been troubleshootingthis issue for a few days now, and can't get it figured out.
> I was getting breakup on my midbass drivers that I couldnt shake, without putting any real power in them. (brand new tm65v2's)
> My Master volume was at -10db, and if I increased the level on my midbass channels to more than -15, It started breaking up. I thought it may be localized to just those 2 channels, so I went to my 2 empty channels, same issue.
> Then I proceeded to try all 8 channels. every one the same. I swapped Amplifier, same issue. I swapped speakers, same issue. Definitely an issue in the DSP iself.
> Oddly enough, the distortion did not occur on either my dash speakers, or my subwoofer on any of those channels. It seemed to be strictly frequency dependent.
> I used an RCA splitter to bypass the DSP Directly to the amp inputs for my Midbass, and the issue disappeared.
> Aside from that, everything functioned as it should, and I'm hoping it was just a fluke Bad unit.


Sorry to hear you had an issue with yours Ron. Must be a fluke.

I've had mine installed for about 6 weeks now and not one issue with it. For the price/performance/build quality, I really don't see any competition to it.


----------



## RRizz

Ge_off_me said:


> That's a strange issue that I've never heard of from any DSP. I'll check the unit out personally when you send it back. I hope the new one works out for you.


Believe me, I have been scratching my head on this one as well. I even tried it with my amp gains bottomed out. No change. I just couldn't get any power into them without it breaking up.
Initially I thought it was speaker leads grounding, Because it had the same type of sound to it..., So I disconnected one of the speakers, and tried a new driver in free air right at the amp. Still there.
but when I bypassed the dsp, all is well.
I'm using my old JBL MSA1004, and 5001, so I removed the dsp, and set xovers on the amps to hold me over until the new unit arrives, and everything is playing great, and plenty of power in the Midbass drivers.
I dont know if this info will help you, But this is what I was using for xover points
Sub 80 LP
Mid 90-1100
High 1100-20k
I initially had the LP on the mid at 700, and the breakup was there as well.
Please let me know what you find, curiousity will be killing me after all the time I have in troubleshooting it!


----------



## RRizz

Truthunter said:


> Sorry to hear you had an issue with yours Ron. Must be a fluke.
> 
> I've had mine installed for about 6 weeks now and not one issue with it. For the price/performance/build quality, I really don't see any competition to it.


I'm confident that it was. Glad yours is working out well, Ryan


----------



## RRizz

Another update to my issue. It turns out that it is NOT the DSP.
I decided to take the truck to work today after finally getting acceptable sounds in it... I hit the highway jammin' to some old Tesla... Hit a rough patch on the road... There's my midbass breaking up again. I think I may have an issue with an RCA cable.
I'll look into it more tomorrow, but I can say with all certainty that it is NOT the DSP.
I'll have to email parts express and get my RA voided, happily.


----------



## Ge_off_me

RRizz said:


> Another update to my issue. It turns out that it is NOT the DSP.
> I decided to take the truck to work today after finally getting acceptable sounds in it... I hit the highway jammin' to some old Tesla... Hit a rough patch on the road... There's my midbass breaking up again. I think I may have an issue with an RCA cable.
> I'll look into it more tomorrow, but I can say with all certainty that it is NOT the DSP.
> I'll have to email parts express and get my RA voided, happily.


That's both good and bad to hear. I hope you get the issue nailed down and repaired quickly!


----------



## minbari

RRizz said:


> Another update to my issue. It turns out that it is NOT the DSP.
> I decided to take the truck to work today after finally getting acceptable sounds in it... I hit the highway jammin' to some old Tesla... Hit a rough patch on the road... There's my midbass breaking up again. I think I may have an issue with an RCA cable.
> I'll look into it more tomorrow, but I can say with all certainty that it is NOT the DSP.
> I'll have to email parts express and get my RA voided, happily.


That did seem weird, but not inconceivable lol.
Glad you got it sorted (kind of)

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Whiterabbit

happens with custom RCA cables. Especially if your amps take differential inputs.


----------



## minbari

Whiterabbit said:


> happens with custom RCA cables. *Especially if your amps take differential inputs.*


how so?


----------



## Whiterabbit

lifting one pin doesn't seem to break the circuit. breaking the circuit would be a straight sound drop-out.


----------



## JCsAudio

Glad to see you got your DSP worked out. Curious to know what tweeter you use that can cross reliably to a mid at 1100 Hz?


----------



## minbari

Whiterabbit said:


> lifting one pin doesn't seem to break the circuit. breaking the circuit would be a straight sound drop-out.


ah, so you are referring to a 3 pin differential then?


----------



## RRizz

V8toilet said:


> Glad to see you got your DSP worked out. Curious to know what tweeter you use that can cross reliably to a mid at 1100 Hz?


 No tweeter in the truck. SI TM65mk2 in doors to Dayton audio rs75-4's in dash. Keeping this one simple. Mainly using it to haul my travel trailer around, Just wanted some better sound in it, and this stuff was just lying around the garage, sooooooo.


----------



## RRizz

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...udio-discussion/404249-unknown-amp-issue.html
Guess I should have talked to the OP on this thread, huh?


----------



## Vmax911

rcg703 said:


> Did you get the USB bluetooth dongle? You'll need that for streaming.


Yep, I did get the dongle with it. :thumbsup:


----------



## RRizz

Did some digging this morning, and swapped RCAs. turns out the issue is in the HU.
Time to go shopping, I guess.


----------



## minbari

RRizz said:


> Did some digging this morning, and swapped RCAs. turns out the issue is in the HU.
> Time to go shopping, I guess.


Easy to confirm that. Buy a 3.5mm to rca Adapter and use your phone as hu

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RRizz

minbari said:


> Easy to confirm that. Buy a 3.5mm to rca Adapter and use your phone as hu
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


even easier.. bluetooth right to DSP. clean and clear.


----------



## minbari

RRizz said:


> even easier.. bluetooth right to DSP. clean and clear.


That won't confirm that the rca inputs and cables are working though

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RRizz

True, but I kind of narrowed it down to the fact that if it WAS an RCA issue, it would have to be the one that runs from DSP to Midbass channels on the amp, because it was always just the midbass that was affected. even when jumping channels on the DSP, and when I switched out the amp, I used the same RCA for the midbass. I switched the midbass rca with the subwoofer rca, and it stayed with the midbass. That leads me to the main rca run. I switched that one out, still had the issue, so it MUST be in the source. I dont normally stream from my phone to the DSP, because the HU handles that...(again, going through the source) when I streamed to the DSP, no issues.
I have an old double din here I'm gonna throw in just to confirm 100% that it is in the HU before I rip her out, but I'm pretty confident thats where the problem lies.


----------



## OneGun

Alright bros, my head is cooked from spending hours in my pole barn in sweltering humidity installing my DSP-408 along with my Pioneer components. 

Just got everything done and flipped the switch on, so to speak. 

Lo and behold, I have zero sound output whatsoever through any source. No music, no hissing, no white noise, no crackling, absolutely no output whatsoever from any of the 5 drivers. 

I double checked my wiring and it looks all legit. HU operates normally (from what I can see), the LED on the DSP-408 is lit, it's wired remote is lit and seems to accept my inputs, and the DSP-408 Bluetooth is live and paired with my iPhone no problem. 

Amp's power light is on and it's warm. 

All my RCAs and speakers are connected and look legit. 


At first key-up I quickly set the HU volume and the DSP volume to near zero then went in through the app and set some baseline x-overs just to get a baseline. EPS are all set to flat. 


But then I went in and upped the volume in the HU and in the DSP... no change.

Made sure I set up the mixer to match the correct outputs. Double and triple checked. All are good. 

As I said, I've been in the garage a long time this week and could be suffering from brain mush. 

What the hell am I missing?



My equipment is: 

Alpine iLX-207
Infinity Reference 4555a (5 channel amp)
Dayton DSP 408
6.5" Pioneer components
10" RF sub

The components are wired active directly from my amp. 

Tweets are the rears, mids are the front. 

Passive crossovers are still in the box. 


HELP!


----------



## JCsAudio

Make sure you have the volumes for each input and output all the way up in the mixer.


----------



## OneGun

V8toilet said:


> Make sure you have the volumes for each input and output all the way up in the mixer.


I'm using (x6) of the (x8) outputs, but before I tried "going live" I set channels 1 & 2 (tweeters) to 30 (out of 60), channels 3 & 4 (mids) to 35, and channels 5 & 6 (sub) to 30. 

Do they need to be set at the max of 60? 

Again, I have zero sound output whatsoever from any channel/driver.


----------



## JCsAudio

OneGun said:


> I'm using (x6) of the (x8) outputs, but before I tried "going live" I set channels 1 & 2 (tweeters) to 30 (out of 60), channels 3 & 4 (mids) to 35, and channels 5 & 6 (sub) to 30.
> 
> Do they need to be set at the max of 60?
> 
> Again, I have zero sound output whatsoever from any channel/driver.


You’re talking about the master volume. If you go into the mixer in the app, there are sliders that go from 0-100 for each channel. They default to 0 so you need to set those to 100 for each channel or you’ll get no sound. I included pictures of those sliders set to 0 in the app for channels 1 and 2. You can mix and match each input to each output with those sliders.


----------



## JCsAudio

Here they are set to 100 for output channels 1 and 2. Also, make sure you have the correct inputs linked to the correct outputs.


----------



## OneGun

Yup, all that is good. 

I have input channels 1 through 4 at 100% output. 

Input channel 1 is linked to output channels 1 & 3 (tweets). 

Input channel 2 is linked to output channels 2 & 4 (mids). 

Input channel 3 is linked to output channels 5 & 6 (sub). 

Input channel 4 is physically connected, but isn't assigned an output. 


But yes, all those are at 100% output.


----------



## msueagle350z

Sounds like I wasnt the only one breaking a sweat to get an install in over the 3 day weekend  excited to hear what everyones thoughts are next weekend after we've had some play time and tuning. 

I have been more thorough with this install than any of the ones from the past. The vehicle is an OBS 96 F250 that was my grandfathers so it certainly holds a special place in my heart. Stoked to say the ayton dsp will be my first go at an active setup in this vehicle so far I have deadened and sealed both doors (followed the basic midbass process from the car audio fabrication youtube guy. Love those videos. 

Anyway I juuuuust finnished making the box for a pair of ssundown SD 10's, sb acousitcs sb17 midbass and Tru Technologies steel s44 amp. The hardest parts of this build are over but I still have not decided on a tweeter or sub amp :/ Might give the new dayton tweets a run for their money if I cant decide. An suggestions would also be welcome.

Sorry for the rant and off topicness haha just excited to see what this thang is all about

Cheers Gang and happy labor day


----------



## JCsAudio

Do you have the switch on the DSP set to low level inputs?


----------



## OneGun

V8toilet said:


> Do you have the switch on the DSP set to low level inputs?


Didn't even know there was such a switch. The only switch I see on the unit or in the manual is the "turn on" switch for "rem", "spk", "rca".


----------



## JCsAudio

OneGun said:


> Didn't even know there was such a switch. The only switch I see on the unit or in the manual is the "turn on" switch for "rem", "spk", "rca".


Opps, your right. That’s for the option to turn on the DSP via speaker level input signal, RCA signal, or with the remote wire turn on wire from you HU. 

Your going to have to use the process of elimination to try and figure this out. Use a volt meter on AC setting and verify you have signal from the HU to the DSP. Then bypass the DSP by connecting the HU directly to the amplifier, but disconnect the tweeters so they don’t receive a full range signal. Then if all that works but the DSP isn’t passing through signal, then you have to make sure it isn’t a software setting. Also try the DSP without that optional remote volume knob attached too.

Also, raise that master volume up to 60 while the HU volume is down near 0 and then raise the HU volume up slowly until you ar something.


----------



## nirschl

So, how is this piece working out for the folks that have successfully installed it? 

I’m curious to try one out in place of my DEH-P01(P99) for crossover duties.


----------



## MAIDEN69

Need some input Gents. Looking at this Dayton DSP for a new build. 98 Lexus LS400. Just ordered the Stereo Integrity TM65 MkIII's, M3's, and their M25 tweets for my front stage. Still in the air is what headunit I will use, amps, and sub(s). I have on hand 3 RF Black & Grinds, and PG Titanium series amps but yet to decide what car gets what. I am also doing an install in my C5 Corvette which has the PPI 3-way setup in it. The newer ones with the AMT tweeters. While I regret buying them, I'm still gonna run them and get my $$$ worth out of them and upgrade as I go. For that build, I have a Fosgate 3Sixty.3 DSP. Yet to finish the system so have no experience with the 3Sixty.3 yet. Or any dsp yet. I even have a mini dsd 2x4 I bought for my 4 subs in my home theater. Yet to install it though.

Anyway, back to the question about the Dayton DSP. This Lexus is my daily driver. Flawless black leather interior at 20 years old. I spent the $ on the SI speakers knowing I will spend so much time in this car and really want it to be my Best system. 
Will the Dayton DSP be a good choice for this build? Or I could swap the Dayton into my Corvette and put the Fosgate 3Sixty.3 in my Lexus. 
Thoughts? And as far as sub go, I have a 15" Diamond Audio TDX subwoofer I am thinking of using. Just not sure if it would be a good SQ sub.


----------



## minbari

MAIDEN69 said:


> Need some input Gents. Looking at this Dayton DSP for a new build. 98 Lexus LS400. Just ordered the Stereo Integrity TM65 MkIII's, M3's, and their M25 tweets for my front stage. Still in the air is what headunit I will use, amps, and sub(s). I have on hand 3 RF Black & Grinds, and PG Titanium series amps but yet to decide what car gets what. I am also doing an install in my C5 Corvette which has the PPI 3-way setup in it. The newer ones with the AMT tweeters. While I regret buying them, I'm still gonna run them and get my $$$ worth out of them and upgrade as I go. For that build, I have a Fosgate 3Sixty.3 DSP. Yet to finish the system so have no experience with the 3Sixty.3 yet. Or any dsp yet. I even have a mini dsd 2x4 I bought for my 4 subs in my home theater. Yet to install it though.
> 
> Anyway, back to the question about the Dayton DSP. This Lexus is my daily driver. Flawless black leather interior at 20 years old. I spent the $ on the SI speakers knowing I will spend so much time in this car and really want it to be my Best system.
> Will the Dayton DSP be a good choice for this build? Or I could swap the Dayton into my Corvette and put the Fosgate 3Sixty.3 in my Lexus.
> Thoughts? And as far as sub go, I have a 15" Diamond Audio TDX subwoofer I am thinking of using. Just not sure if it would be a good SQ sub.


I have no complaints with the 408. Easy to use, noise floor is zero. Has plenty of flexibility and signal output.
Minor gripe on the phone app because of a couple buttons that are hard to use. But I understand they are fixing that in the next release 

For the money you can't beat it. Make sure you get the BT module

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## minbari

nirschl said:


> So, how is this piece working out for the folks that have successfully installed it?
> 
> I’m curious to try one out in place of my DEH-P01(P99) for crossover duties.


See above lol. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

Mine sounds awesome in my wife’s Sienna running SB29 tweeters and Focal 165 v1 mids with a ported sub in the back, all actively run from the Dayton 408. Compared to my other JL TwK DSP, the Dayton DSP does have some minor shortcomings, and I mean minor, that do not translate into less SQ. They are compared to my JL:


It takes more than twice as long to switch between presets (maybe slower CPU idk).
I get a noise floor when the remote is hooked up.
It makes some funny cracking noises while saving and uploading presets.
Time alignment is backwards (on mine) when using distance in inch’s so use ms instead and an online calculator. 
Time alignment steps are course and there is less overall delay available (again not really needed and I still got excellent results).
Less options in the EQ for steep filters and types (not really needed though).
The JL software is better suited for beginners in DSP’s. 

Again, these are more my observations compared to a DSP that costs 3 times as much and in the end I have an awesome sounding system so to me they both achieve great sound quality. The Bluetooth dongle for the app is worth the cost but the separate remote is not.


----------



## rcg703

I’m having some weird issues with mine. Unit doesn’t power up yet still passes some sort of signal through to my right tweet. I used the ac power adapter to test and it powered up in my truck then disconnected and it began working. I then noticed I had decreased output from the right tweet although everything else was working ok. Now it’s back to not powering on at all. I triple checked all my connections and everything is fine.


----------



## minbari

rcg703 said:


> I’m having some weird issues with mine. Unit doesn’t power up yet still passes some sort of signal through to my right tweet. I used the ac power adapter to test and it powered up in my truck then disconnected and it began working. I then noticed I had decreased output from the right tweet although everything else was working ok. Now it’s back to not powering on at all. I triple checked all my connections and everything is fine.


How do you have it turning on? (What position is the switch in)
Are you able to verify that the power led is not coming on?
If it is truly not turning on there is no way any input would make it to the output. There is no connection and the dsp chip isn't processing.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## rcg703

I tried both rca and speaker with the correct switch setting and get the same result. The power light doesn’t come on at all now. That’s the weird thing, that the light isn’t on but my right tweet is getting some sort of signal. No other speakers are on. I also noticed when it was working that even when muting the right tweet, the volume decreased but sound still came out.


----------



## minbari

well I hate to say, but it would seem yours is defective. get a new one.

no way you should be able to get ANY signal through with it off. (unless there is a solder short on the DSP chip)


----------



## rcg703

minbari said:


> well I hate to say, but it would seem yours is defective. get a new one.
> 
> no way you should be able to get ANY signal through with it off. (unless there is a solder short on the DSP chip)


I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## minbari

rcg703 said:


> I was thinking the same thing.


sorry to confirm your fears, lol. but It would not surprise me a bit if a BGA had a shorted connection on it. those things are *****.


----------



## rcg703

Damn. I don’t have time to wait for the rma process so I’ll probably just order a new one with rush shipping then send the other one back later.


----------



## OneGun

V8toilet said:


> Opps, your right. That’s for the option to turn on the DSP via speaker level input signal, RCA signal, or with the remote wire turn on wire from you HU.
> 
> Your going to have to use the process of elimination to try and figure this out. Use a volt meter on AC setting and verify you have signal from the HU to the DSP. Then bypass the DSP by connecting the HU directly to the amplifier, but disconnect the tweeters so they don’t receive a full range signal. Then if all that works but the DSP isn’t passing through signal, then you have to make sure it isn’t a software setting. Also try the DSP without that optional remote volume knob attached too.
> 
> Also, raise that master volume up to 60 while the HU volume is down near 0 and then raise the HU volume up slowly until you ar something.



Alright, so I'm not sure what kind of voodoo happened but I'm now live _with_ sound. 

I hooked up via PC and set some basic settings, making sure I had all necessary outputs up. I'm 99% sure when I did the same setup through my iPhone, I did all the same things, but maybe not. 

Anyway, I now have sound. 

What specifically resolved this problem, know not I.


----------



## OneGun

nirschl said:


> So, how is this piece working out for the folks that have successfully installed it?
> 
> I’m curious to try one out in place of my DEH-P01(P99) for crossover duties.



This is my first DSP ever and I just completed the installation yesterday. Had an issue initially with no sound output, but after messing around, I got it working. Must have had one of the outputs (volumes) off I guess. 

Anyway, at the same time I installed the DSP, I also installed new components up front (Pioneer TS-Z65CH). 

I'm nowhere near completing the tuning yet and have only done some very initial setup but even now I'm very pleased with the handful of tracks I've played through this new setup. 

It will take some time for me to learn everything I need to know to maximize this very powerful tool. 

So just to give some input here from an absolute noob, I'm very happy with my purchase and am looking forward to having more time to figure out the tweaks I need to make.


----------



## JCsAudio

OneGun, if you don’t have it already, I highly recommend that you get REW and learn how to use REW with a UNIK microphone for tuning. Tuning without an RTA is like shooting a target blindfolded.


----------



## minbari

V8toilet said:


> OneGun, if you don’t have it already, I highly recommend that you get REW and learn how to use REW with a UNIK microphone for tuning. Tuning without an RTA is like shooting a target blindfolded.


complettely disagree...................did it for more than a decade with no RTA. (they didnt exsist)

RTA will help get the first 15% is the tune right. then your ears have to do it.


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## OneGun

V8toilet said:


> OneGun, if you don’t have it already, I highly recommend that you get REW and learn how to use REW with a UNIK microphone for tuning. Tuning without an RTA is like shooting a target blindfolded.





minbari said:


> complettely disagree...................did it for more than a decade with no RTA. (they didnt exsist)
> 
> RTA will help get the first 15% is the tune right. then your ears have to do it.



So with regard to tuning, I know many are adamant (and I believe them) that REW is the way to go. And while I've done some cursory research into its use, I have found that the information I've seen has left me with _so_ many unanswered questions, I feel a bit overwhelmed by getting into it. I will give it a try just to learn, but time is a factor for me and I feel that researching this and practicing will be extremely time consuming. 

Nevertheless, I understand that things that yield the best results require hard work, but I just don't have the time to commit to that learning curve just yet. 


With regard to RTA, I've played with them already some and it's my understanding that the goal is to achieve a relatively flat curve but slightly tapering up near the lower/bass frequencies, and slightly tapering down at the higher/treble frequencies. 

Maybe you guys can confirm this for me. This is all I've ever done with an RTA. Just used some pink noise to try and get that kind of graph. Never done anything with any target curves like the "JBL curve" I've heard/read about. I don't know anything about that stuff at this point. 

In any case, this seems like the much simpler of the two methods so I'm going to work easiest to hardest and try RTA first just shooting for that flat'ish graph. 

In the past, I've 100% tuned by ear but each time I do, some tracks sound good, but others I listen to don't. Then I keep tweaking to find the holy grail and end up messing it up. 


Anyway, I have a Dayton iMM-6 and some RTA apps, so I'm gonna see what I can do with the stuff I have. 

I'll probably cough up the dough for a USB mic at some point soon just to evaluate for myself if using it and REW is worth it. 

Worst case scenario, I learn how to use it. 


But ultimately, it seems there's no consensus on which tuning methods are best and I think that's the way it should be. Sound is a personal preference, just like music, and if you like how your system sounds, then it's tuned right, bottom line. 

I just need to find my way here.


----------



## minbari

There is nothing wrong with rew or using an rta to get things started with a nice baseline or make a sanity check if things are sounding off. But they are not the end all be all. 

As an example you could purposely put a hole between midbass and tweeter then boost the eq between them to compensate. The rta may look the same as if the gap wasn't there. It won't sound the same.
So rta can't sniff out everything that your ears can. There is no shortcut you have to do the work. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## JCsAudio

OneGun, I posted pictures of some REW graphs in this thread of which I believe you were a part of, so you may have already seen them. https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...ipment-my-car/407323-amp-upgrade-worth-5.html

I also put up a YouTube video on this DSP comparing it to my JL TwK 88 and in the last part on how to set a basic base tune. It’s post #242 on page 10. I’m working on some shorter versions coming soon. 

I think what minbari is trying to say is that the RTA is a tool, and like many tools it can be misunderstood and abused or not used correctly. It’s a tool that helps you put what you are hearing into a visual format so you can compare it to other known good sounding systems. Yes, you still have to use your ears to do the final tune and you have to follow some rules when using EQ or filters to compensate for all the reflections, cancellations, and phase issues you get within the space of a car, and with drivers that are not in ideal places.

To his point, if you are just looking at that pretty graph trying to make it look perfect, you’ll likely get in trouble and get crappy results so you have to use your ears too. For me, it’s a valuable tool to help confirm what my ears are hearing or not hearing and it’s fun to use once you understand what REW can do or not do.


----------



## minbari

Well said. People put far too much into " if you don't have an rta you will never get good sound" ********

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## openglcg

MAIDEN69 said:


> Need some input Gents. Looking at this Dayton DSP for a new build. 98 Lexus LS400. Just ordered the Stereo Integrity TM65 MkIII's, M3's, and their M25 tweets for my front stage. Still in the air is what headunit I will use, amps, and sub(s). I have on hand 3 RF Black & Grinds, and PG Titanium series amps but yet to decide what car gets what. I am also doing an install in my C5 Corvette which has the PPI 3-way setup in it. The newer ones with the AMT tweeters. While I regret buying them, I'm still gonna run them and get my $$$ worth out of them and upgrade as I go. For that build, I have a Fosgate 3Sixty.3 DSP. Yet to finish the system so have no experience with the 3Sixty.3 yet. Or any dsp yet. I even have a mini dsd 2x4 I bought for my 4 subs in my home theater. Yet to install it though.
> 
> Anyway, back to the question about the Dayton DSP. This Lexus is my daily driver. Flawless black leather interior at 20 years old. I spent the $ on the SI speakers knowing I will spend so much time in this car and really want it to be my Best system.
> Will the Dayton DSP be a good choice for this build? Or I could swap the Dayton into my Corvette and put the Fosgate 3Sixty.3 in my Lexus.
> Thoughts? And as far as sub go, I have a 15" Diamond Audio TDX subwoofer I am thinking of using. Just not sure if it would be a good SQ sub.


I was going to be really sad to have to recommend the fosgate in the dayton thread but then you mentioned that you have no dsp experience. And that by far means the dayton takes the cake.

There are going to be alot of possibilities for eq, crossovers, and time delay. To get the most out of it you will want to play around with it. There is an ideal configuration for every car and person and the ability to streamline the process of finding it is going to be huge in terms of how fast you can enjoy your system to the fullest. Make it easy on yourself and start with a frequency response measurement but absolutlely experiment as well. As you can immagine this would be alot more of a pain if you had to break out a laptop and hook it up each time you had an idea.

Only reason I would recommend something more high end is for a higher sample rate and better phase control but those things are not going to matter if it takes many months for you to figure out your ideal eq. Crossovers, eq, and time delay first. Then sample rate and phase to finnish it off. If you are listening to 44khz audio anyway like most of us then the 48khz of the dayton wont really matter that much in the end. But there ARE benefits of a higher sample rate and those are really nice tweeters as well. Final concern would be the output voltage with the rockford having an advantage on paper but this is still not likely to be anything to worry about.

You could use the dayton for a few months then swap to the rockford once you are sure of your eq. As long as you dont fall in lover with the dayton in the meantime.


----------



## Grinder

Well, I finally did it! Taking advantage of PE's Labor Day sale (10% off), I ordered a DSP-408 for my home system today. Now I should finally be able to HP my horns (and not just LP my subs ...as my miniDSP 2x4 had WAAAAAAAAAAY too high noise floor for my horns. Fingers crossed that the 408 will do the trick). 

I also picked up a FiiO X1 for my next car-audio-boombox project (which has been on the back burner for months and months) ...now that I'll have a miniDSP freed-up for that project.

Sounds like a win/win/win to me!


----------



## Reid1980

I did the same thing. Got the DSP, BT dongle and a pair of bass blockers from parts express. That 10% off was nice.


----------



## MAIDEN69

openglcg said:


> I was going to be really sad to have to recommend the fosgate in the dayton thread but then you mentioned that you have no dsp experience. And that by far means the dayton takes the cake.
> 
> There are going to be alot of possibilities for eq, crossovers, and time delay. To get the most out of it you will want to play around with it. There is an ideal configuration for every car and person and the ability to streamline the process of finding it is going to be huge in terms of how fast you can enjoy your system to the fullest. Make it easy on yourself and start with a frequency response measurement but absolutlely experiment as well. As you can immagine this would be alot more of a pain if you had to break out a laptop and hook it up each time you had an idea.
> 
> Only reason I would recommend something more high end is for a higher sample rate and better phase control but those things are not going to matter if it takes many months for you to figure out your ideal eq. Crossovers, eq, and time delay first. Then sample rate and phase to finnish it off. If you are listening to 44khz audio anyway like most of us then the 48khz of the dayton wont really matter that much in the end. But there ARE benefits of a higher sample rate and those are really nice tweeters as well. Final concern would be the output voltage with the rockford having an advantage on paper but this is still not likely to be anything to worry about.
> 
> You could use the dayton for a few months then swap to the rockford once you are sure of your eq. As long as you dont fall in lover with the dayton in the meantime.


I'm gonna give the Dayton a shot. The Fosgate is already partially wired into my Corvette so will just leave it in there. Plus I decided to use my three Fosgate amps in the Vette as well as the are built so stout. Better fit for a bumpy/stiff riding sports car. I'm gonna use Phoenix Gold Titanium amps in the Lexus and roll with the Dayton. I already have the USB mic for REW. Bought it when I bought the mini dsp for my home subs. Have just never tried it yet. Guess I should order the Dayton while the 10% off is still going.


----------



## cycleguy

I’m also thinking of pulling the trigger on the Dayton 408 currently running a MS8 with a 2 way plus sub but going 3 way so thinking this 408 may be a better option over the MS 8 as it put you more in control of your setting. Would like to hear from anyone hat has switched from the MS 8 to the Dayton 408


----------



## MAIDEN69

Grinder said:


> Well, I finally did it! Taking advantage of PE's Labor Day sale (10% off), I ordered a DSP-408 for my home system today. Now I should finally be able to HP my horns (and not just LP my subs ...as my miniDSP 2x4 had WAAAAAAAAAAY too high noise floor for my horns. Fingers crossed that the 408 will do the trick).
> 
> I also picked up a FiiO X1 for my next car-audio-boombox project (which has been on the back burner for months and months) ...now that I'll have a miniDSP freed-up for that project.
> 
> Sounds like a win/win/win to me!


How do you plan to use the FiiO X1 in a boombox? I want to build one as well. But unsure of what electronics people are using. And would the FiiO X1 be a better solution for using in a car vs an Ipod Classic? I have every CD I own in Apple Lossless on my Ipod Classic. I plan to bring it with me in whatever car I am driving and hook it into the USB input on the headunit. Should bypass the internal dac of the Ipod and just be a hard drive/source for my head unit. Just not sure if Apple Lossless hooked up this way is better than just playing the cd straight in the head unit. Or if the FiiO X1 would be.


----------



## MAIDEN69

About to order the Dayton. Should I order the BT Dongle and the DSP-RC Wired Remote Control ???? What is the BT Dongle needed for?


----------



## MAIDEN69

Nevermind, held off on the remote. Read it will not allow using it as a subwoofer level control. Would be sweet for that. If they ever update it, I will add it then. I did get the BT dongle though. Is it simply for phone app control?


----------



## Grinder

MAIDEN69 said:


> *How do you plan to use the FiiO X1 in a boombox?* I want to build one as well. But unsure of what electronics people are using. And would the FiiO X1 be a better solution for using in a car vs an Ipod Classic? I have every CD I own in Apple Lossless on my Ipod Classic. I plan to bring it with me in whatever car I am driving and hook it into the USB input on the headunit. Should bypass the internal dac of the Ipod and just be a hard drive/source for my head unit. Just not sure if Apple Lossless hooked up this way is better than just playing the cd straight in the head unit. Or if the FiiO X1 would be.


I'll plug it straight into the amplifier (or, in my case, Fiio-to-miniDSP-to-amp), via 1/8" / 3.5mm-to-RCA cable. My first boombox has an HU and amp; and I want to lose the HU on the next one.


----------



## Grinder

MAIDEN69 said:


> Nevermind, held off on the remote. Read it will not allow using it as a subwoofer level control. Would be sweet for that. If they ever update it, I will add it then. *I did get the BT dongle though. Is it simply for phone app control?*


That was my quick take on it, but I'm not sure. Would be nice if it could feed signal to the 408 as well.


----------



## SilentWrath

Grinder said:


> MAIDEN69 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nevermind, held off on the remote. Read it will not allow using it as a subwoofer level control. Would be sweet for that. If they ever update it, I will add it then. *I did get the BT dongle though. Is it simply for phone app control?*
> 
> 
> 
> That was my quick take on it, but I'm not sure. Would be nice if it could feed signal to the 408 as well.
Click to expand...

It can stream music as well.


----------



## Grinder

SilentWrath said:


> It can stream music as well.


Awesome. Thanks.


----------



## MAIDEN69

SilentWrath said:


> It can stream music as well.


So you would be downstream of the headunit and the headunits volume control won't have any effect, right? Why not just use the headunits BT connection?


----------



## minbari

Some people don't have BT on thier HU

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

MAIDEN69 said:


> So you would be downstream of the headunit and the headunits volume control won't have any effect, right? Why not just use the headunits BT connection?


 The Bluetooth direct to the DSP can also be used to bypass the factory EQ on those units that are using high level inputs. You are right though, the HU volume will not work in this instance.


----------



## Onueez

Ge_off_me said:


> I can give you this so far...
> 
> 1. Over/under voltage protection
> 2. Reverse voltage protection
> 3. Mute circuit and delay
> 4. High level input impedance: 180 ohms
> 5. RCA input impedance: ≥20K ohms
> 6. Frequency response: 20Hz-20KHz
> 7. Output impedance: <50 ohms
> 8. Maximum input level: ≥3.2V 1% THD
> 9. S/N: ≥115dB.
> 10. REM OUT current: >500mA
> 11. Operating voltage: 9-17V
> 12. ADAU1701 SigmaDSP 28-/56 Bit Audio Processor


thanks for sharing!


----------



## Noah Bond

I _really_ want Dayton to implement variable EQ with the knob.

Just imagine: your head unit goes from 0-30. At 10, your bass is too low, but your treble is bright. So, you EQ your bass up a bit and the treble down.

Fixed, great! But now, at 25, your bass is slightly overwhelming, and the treble is lacking.

What I'm proposing is this: allow the parametric EQ and gain adjustments to use the volume on the control knob as a 'scaling' value. This would require you to keep the same volume on the head unit, but not a big deal if you have the knob up front. Even better, ditch the head unit entirely. 

Who needs a head unit if you have DSP like this that you can use bluetooth with or plug an aux->rca, and a volume knob?

BONUS: You can use the volume knob _only_ for the scaling for bass. Two birds with one stone, you now have a bass-knob feature.

An even better way to implement this is to allow custom curves/math functions for such a feature. But I'd prefer to get a firm yes/no/"we'll look into it" from Geoff before getting my hopes up.


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## rton20s




----------



## Theslaking

rton20s said:


>


First time I've agreed with Trump.


----------



## OneGun

Noah Bond said:


> I _really_ want Dayton to implement variable EQ with the knob.
> 
> Just imagine: your head unit goes from 0-30. At 10, your bass is too low, but your treble is bright. So, you EQ your bass up a bit and the treble down.
> 
> Fixed, great! But now, at 25, your bass is slightly overwhelming, and the treble is lacking.
> 
> What I'm proposing is this: allow the parametric EQ and gain adjustments to use the volume on the control knob as a 'scaling' value. This would require you to keep the same volume on the head unit, but not a big deal if you have the knob up front. Even better, ditch the head unit entirely.
> 
> Who needs a head unit if you have DSP like this that you can use bluetooth with or plug an aux->rca, and a volume knob?
> 
> BONUS: You can use the volume knob _only_ for the scaling for bass. Two birds with one stone, you now have a bass-knob feature.
> 
> An even better way to implement this is to allow custom curves/math functions for such a feature. But I'd prefer to get a firm yes/no/"we'll look into it" from Geoff before getting my hopes up.


----------



## Noah Bond

Let's hope that's not true. Coming from a CS background I have to feel that it wouldn't be too hard to implement. That being said, I don't know what all goes on in the DSP-408 besides the ADAU1701 chip. Maybe I'll have to open it up and take a look.

It's a longshot, but I would kill for them to provide a source file for the firmware... Or schematics.

I'm curious as to the responses to this suggestion. Is it just not something you guys would want?


----------



## OneGun

Noah Bond said:


> I'm curious as to the responses to this suggestion. Is it just not something you guys would want?



I was just trying to be humorous. 

Didn't work? 

:disappointed:


----------



## BrianSomething

Anyone want my NIB 408? I'm going a different direction in my build and won't need it. It was NEVER hooked up, just the box opened. All factory pieces and packaging still there. $120 shipped.


----------



## RRizz

Shouldn't be necessary. Use your HU loudness feature, or bass and treble to do exactly that....
And your system, if setup correctly should be linear enough to do away with the need for all, with exception to the boost at lower frequencies when driving, yes?


----------



## Noah Bond

I'll have to do some tests and see what's typical first- maybe what I'm talking about isn't necessary at all. Flexibility is never bad however.

There's also a wealth of headunits out there without a loudness feature- and even the ones that do provide barely any flexibility. Bass+Treble IME are typically just EQ.


----------



## Ge_off_me

Yeah, the remote functionality is probably going to stay the same for a bit lol.


----------



## rton20s

Theslaking said:


> First time I've agreed with Trump.


----------



## rton20s

Ge_off_me said:


> Yeah, the remote functionality is probably going to stay the same for a bit lol.


----------



## rcg703

I think I have part of my issue figured out. So I just went out and tinkered with the truck for a minute and found a clue. If I pull the rca cable partially out of the input, so that only the center pin is touching and the outer shield isn't then I get the sound I expected. I noticed some hiss, but the sound was immediately much louder and much fuller. I guess this seems like a grounding issue somewhere?? I think I have a bad tweeter but don't think that would affect the inputs on the dsp. I used forscan to turn my front factory speaker wires into rcas as inputs for the DSP so I guess that's where I'll need to check huh?


----------



## JCsAudio

Rton20s, you made me laugh on that one (post #483).


----------



## cycleguy

V8toilet said:


> Mine sounds awesome in my wife’s Sienna running SB29 tweeters and Focal 165 v1 mids with a ported sub in the back, all actively run from the Dayton 408. Compared to my other JL TwK DSP, the Dayton DSP does have some minor shortcomings, and I mean minor, that do not translate into less SQ. They are compared to my JL:
> 
> 
> It takes more than twice as long to switch between presets (maybe slower CPU idk).
> I get a noise floor when the remote is hooked up.
> It makes some funny cracking noises while saving and uploading presets.
> Time alignment is backwards (on mine) when using distance in inch’s so use ms instead and an online calculator.
> Time alignment steps are course and there is less overall delay available (again not really needed and I still got excellent results).
> Less options in the EQ for steep filters and types (not really needed though).
> The JL software is better suited for beginners in DSP’s.
> 
> Again, these are more my observations compared to a DSP that costs 3 times as much and in the end I have an awesome sounding system so to me they both achieve great sound quality. The Bluetooth dongle for the app is worth the cost but the separate remote is not.[/QUOTE
> 
> How are the SB 29 tweeters mounted? On or off axis and what position are that mounted V8 ? As these are what I have but not fitted at the moment


----------



## JCsAudio

cycleguy said:


> How are the SB 29 tweeters mounted? On or off axis and what position are that mounted V8 ? As these are what I have but not fitted at the moment


The tweeters are mounted in the stock dash locations at the corners of the windshield, so they are mounted in the worst location and off axis. I used the DSP’s EQ and time alignment in conjunction with REW and a microphone to measure the response and EQ each driver separately to get them to sound good in those locations. Just so you know, I have tried a lot of tweeters, and these SB29 tweeters are fantastic.


----------



## cycleguy

V8toilet said:


> The tweeters are mounted in the stock dash locations at the corners of the windshield, so they are mounted in the worst location and off axis. I used the DSP’s EQ and time alignment in conjunction with REW and a microphone to measure the response and EQ each driver separately to get them to sound good in those locations. Just so you know, I have tried a lot of tweeters, and these SB29 tweeters are fantastic.


That’s good to hear I have read this whole thread and see that you have got you vehicle sounding very good can you tell me what type of sound you have been shooting for natural sounding or more impact bright if you understand what I’m trying to say. Thanks


----------



## OneGun

Some folks have mentioned the T/A being a bit off or not working as expected. 

I haven't tested it yet, but wanted to know if everyone is experiencing this. 

If so, do I need to use m/s vs. actual distance? 

What's the deal with that?


----------



## minbari

OneGun said:


> Some folks have mentioned the T/A being a bit off or not working as expected.
> 
> I haven't tested it yet, but wanted to know if everyone is experiencing this.
> 
> If so, do I need to use m/s vs. actual distance?
> 
> What's the deal with that?


Worked fine for me. I used inches

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

cycleguy said:


> That’s good to hear I have read this whole thread and see that you have got you vehicle sounding very good can you tell me what type of sound you have been shooting for natural sounding or more impact bright if you understand what I’m trying to say. Thanks


cycleguy, there really is no way for me to accurately convey that to you because your idea of natural sounding is most likely different than mine. Its very subjective! All I can say is that I like my systems to sound as accurately as possible and stay true to the way they were recorded with as little coloration in the sound as possible. When I close my eyes with a song playing, I want it to sound as if the band is on my dash with all the sounds coming from the correct locations as they were recorded. I do like the bass to be more on the heavy side of things though as many of us do. 







OneGun said:


> Some folks have mentioned the T/A being a bit off or not working as expected.
> 
> I haven't tested it yet, but wanted to know if everyone is experiencing this.
> 
> If so, do I need to use m/s vs. actual distance?
> 
> What's the deal with that?


Onegun, When I used the inches measurement and input those measurements into my Dayton DSP, my stage was off to the side and I was able to localize my drivers. I used an online calculator and also the calculations from my JL DSP (JL came up with the same #'s as that online calc) and determined that at least with my Dayton the calculations are off compared to inputting the measurements via inches. I explained how I determined this somewhere above in this thread. I then input the time alignment directly into the DSP using ms and then everything was right and it sounded way better to me. You can compare both methods using the presets in the Dayton DSP and compare them if you want and see if there is a difference with yours. Mine was night and day different.


----------



## OneGun

V8toilet said:


> Onegun, When I used the inches measurement and input those measurements into my Dayton DSP, my stage was off to the side and I was able to localize my drivers. I used an online calculator and also the calculations from my JL DSP (JL came up with the same #'s as that online calc) and determined that at least with my Dayton the calculations are off compared to inputting the measurements via inches. I explained how I determined this somewhere above in this thread. I then input the time alignment directly into the DSP using ms and then everything was right and it sounded way better to me. You can compare both methods using the presets in the Dayton DSP and compare them if you want and see if there is a difference with yours. Mine was night and day different.


Okay, I took measurements last night so I'll just try inches first and see what happens. If necessary, I'll plug the measurements into one of the programs and just go with m/s. 

Also, with regard to your tuning (REW). Did you use a canned house curve for your target like the JBL?


----------



## Mr.Beck

I'm about on my 2nd or 3rd week with mine and it gets better every time I adjust it. Not really stressing T/A at the moment, only a couple days though with the BT! Channels seem to be mislabeled,but playing with it I can get past that....overall, I believe it will sound awesome! Just take a little time...


----------



## JCsAudio

OneGun, I used the Audiofrog house curve, but didn't follow it exactly, and used my ears and some of my own secrets to do the final adjustments.


----------



## OneGun

V8toilet said:


> OneGun, I used the Audiofrog house curve, but didn't follow it exactly, and used my ears and some of my own secrets to do the final adjustments.



So when's your Dayton 408 REW tuning YouTube video set to launch?


----------



## JCsAudio

OneGun said:


> So when's your Dayton 408 REW tuning YouTube video set to launch?


Coming soon.

I've been building, modeling, and then testing some experimental ported boxes in slot port and round port configurations with the same driver and learning some things. Its amazing how much the tiniest little change can make an audible difference, especially in perceived sound quality using the same driver.


----------



## cycleguy

Just a post to say that my DSP-408 turned up today along what a pair of Dayton RS75-4 mids these are my first Dayton audio products and must say they have a very good quality finish and build quality. Can’t wait to get them installed.


----------



## JCsAudio

cycleguy said:


> Just a post to say that my DSP-408 turned up today along what a pair of Dayton RS75-4 mids these are my first Dayton audio products and must say they have a very good quality finish and build quality. Can’t wait to get them installed.


A little short video on how to use the app. 

https://youtu.be/Mn_lkO-mfwk

How to use the remote.

https://youtu.be/laCS8aNgh6U

The whole 1 hour long version, review, and comparison to the JL twk.

https://youtu.be/pzBTHMwRrKM


----------



## cycleguy

V8toilet said:


> A little short video on how to use the app.
> 
> https://youtu.be/Mn_lkO-mfwk
> 
> How to use the remote.
> 
> https://youtu.be/laCS8aNgh6U
> 
> The whole 1 hour long version, review, and comparison to the JL twk.
> 
> https://youtu.be/pzBTHMwRrKM


I have seen these videos thanks for taking the time to post them up. I’m going to be replacing a MS 8 that is controlling a 2 way active and sub setup but I will be going 3 way active with the 408 that’s what the RS 75-4 are for


----------



## Whiterabbit

Technically, you can feed the dayton from the MS8 and keep both. You just feed what you care about from the MS8 (probably L, C, R, Sub) as 1-way into the inputs of the Dayton and then filter from there. 

Or since the Dayton only has 8 outputs, maybe just use 3x inputs (L R C or L R Sub) so the MS-8 can be driven 2-way. Or the Dayton.

Just saying, think outside the box.


----------



## JCsAudio

cycleguy said:


> I have seen these videos thanks for taking the time to post them up. I’m going to be replacing a MS 8 that is controlling a 2 way active and sub setup but I will be going 3 way active with the 408 that’s what the RS 75-4 are for


Awesome! Let us know how those RS 75's sound. I'm curious about them myself. 

Thanks


----------



## cycleguy

V8toilet said:


> Awesome! Let us know how those RS 75's sound. I'm curious about them myself.
> 
> Thanks


I will do I have to get back to the Uk as I’m here in Florida on vacation at the minute these are being paired with the tweeter you like the CD29 and the sb acoustic sb 6.5 mid bass drivers so looking forward to what the DSP-408 will do


----------



## Ge_off_me

Just updated the Android app for the DSP-408.

We added a few things that you guys asked for 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=leon.android.chs_ydw_dcs480_dsp_408&hl=en_US


----------



## Theslaking

Thank you sir (and tech team).


----------



## Grinder

Ge_off_me said:


> Just updated the Android app for the DSP-408.
> 
> We added a few things that you guys asked for
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=leon.android.chs_ydw_dcs480_dsp_408&hl=en_US


Now, that's what I call customer service!


----------



## minbari

Ge_off_me said:


> Just updated the Android app for the DSP-408.
> 
> We added a few things that you guys asked for
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=leon.android.chs_ydw_dcs480_dsp_408&hl=en_US


Woot. Downloading now. Will give you feedback later

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## minbari

Ge_off_me said:


> Just updated the Android app for the DSP-408.
> 
> We added a few things that you guys asked for
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=leon.android.chs_ydw_dcs480_dsp_408&hl=en_US


Ok gave it a look. I like the plus/minus buttons much better.

But........in portrait view now you can't see bands 1 or 2 on the eq tab. You can slide over to 10, but 3-10 are all you can see. (Landscape does show them all)

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ge_off_me

minbari said:


> Ok gave it a look. I like the plus/minus buttons much better.
> 
> But........in portrait view now you can't see bands 1 or 2 on the eq tab. You can slide over to 10, but 3-10 are all you can see. (Landscape does show them all)
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


But... It works still 

I'll work on that fix soon.


----------



## minbari

Ge_off_me said:


> But... It works still
> 
> I'll work on that fix soon.


Lol yes. At least there is a work around. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## SilentWrath

Was the computer program updated as well to allow naming of outputs?


----------



## Ge_off_me

SilentWrath said:


> Was the computer program updated as well to allow naming of outputs?


Why not try it to find out


----------



## kanadian-kaos

Ge_off_me said:


> Why not try it to find out


Sweet. Just double click where is says "CH1", etc. There is enough space for 7 letters/numbers.


----------



## JCsAudio

Hey, what obout us Apple guys? Actually I miss my android device but I have to use what work gives me, so Apple it is.


----------



## Ge_off_me

V8toilet said:


> Hey, what obout us Apple guys? Actually I miss my android device but I have to use what work gives me, so Apple it is.


You guys already got an update, but you do not have the ability to turn the app into landscape mode.


----------



## JCsAudio

Ge_off_me said:


> You guys already got an update, but you do not have the ability to turn the app into landscape mode.


No problem, I actually like the way the app works. Only issue I have is I cannot connect to the DSP with my iPhone, just my iPad. The phone can’t find the device in a search, weird. I’m guessing it’s on Apple.


----------



## OneGun

Any chance on getting a full version for OSx? :idea2:


----------



## AAAAAAA

Don't forget to post your review on the app store guys. A thousand downloads but only 8 or so reviews.


----------



## Ge_off_me

OneGun said:


> Any chance on getting a full version for OSx? :idea2:


Doubtful


----------



## Mitchc1113

Ok so I have a couple questions, I have the Dayton DSP, I'm in the middle of changing out my system so I only have a basic setup being tuned thru my dsp right now.

NVX NSP 6.5s coaxials and my Sundown SD3 12". The thing is today I used the streaming option through the bluetooth dongle with my phone for the 1st time. The difference in sound from streaming vs. my HU was night and day. I couldnt believe it, I knew I had only scratched the surface with my basic tune and I thought it sounded pretty good through my HU, but when I heard it using my phone as the source my jaw dropped.

The only thing that was off was my sub was noticeably quieter when streaming, much quieter, but everything else was soooo much cleaner/clearer. So I adjusted my sub level on the DSP by boosting the 25hz dial and lowering the frequency and Q of the sub inputs- that seemed to bring the bass level up... was that the correct way to do it?

When using my HU the signal 1st goes into my Audio Control LC2I, then to the Dayton DSP, was wondering if that's what would cause the bass to be a lot heavier when using the HU vs streaming? Also could the LC2I be contributing to the poor sound from the HU or is that just from me not getting a true flat signal to my DSP? I have a 2018 Silverado non Bose 8" Mylink... 

Last question, If I get the pac ap4-gm61 would that essentially give me the same (possibly better) quality sound as I experienced today when I used my phone to stream through the DSP?


----------



## RRizz

V8toilet said:


> Awesome! Let us know how those RS 75's sound. I'm curious about them myself.
> 
> Thanks


 They are a great little speaker. I ran them in my 370z for quite awhile. I actually bought 2 extra sets I liked them that much. I replaced them with the SI M3 midrange.. I currently have the daytons in My Titan as well.


----------



## cycleguy

Mitchc1113 said:


> Ok so I have a couple questions, I have the Dayton DSP, I'm in the middle of changing out my system so I only have a basic setup being tuned thru my dsp right now.
> 
> NVX NSP 6.5s coaxials and my Sundown SD3 12". The thing is today I used the streaming option through the bluetooth dongle with my phone for the 1st time. The difference in sound from streaming vs. my HU was night and day. I couldnt believe it, I knew I had only scratched the surface with my basic tune and I thought it sounded pretty good through my HU, but when I heard it using my phone as the source my jaw dropped.
> 
> The only thing that was off was my sub was noticeably quieter when streaming, much quieter, but everything else was soooo much cleaner/clearer. So I adjusted my sub level on the DSP by boosting the 25hz dial and lowering the frequency and Q of the sub inputs- that seemed to bring the bass level up... was that the correct way to do it?
> 
> When using my HU the signal 1st goes into my Audio Control LC2I, then to the Dayton DSP, was wondering if that's what would cause the bass to be a lot heavier when using the HU vs streaming? Also could the LC2I be contributing to the poor sound from the HU or is that just from me not getting a true flat signal to my DSP? I have a 2018 Silverado non Bose 8" Mylink...
> 
> Last question, If I get the pac ap4-gm61 would that essentially give me the same (possibly better) quality sound as I experienced today when I used my phone to stream through the DSP?


Hi there I had a similar issue when using the LC2i to send the RCA input into my current set up which is a JBL MS8 and by removing the LC2I and using Bligh level input got a much better sound . But getting back to you install I watched a video on YouTube that was a install in a late model Chevy that they was saying the output from these late model Chevys put out a non stereo out put this might be what is causing your problem the video I’m talking about was one by 5 star car stereo might be worth a look


----------



## AAAAAAA

How does the Bluetooth work with your phone for music playing and calls...Pair the phone to it instead of the car stereo, then can stream music directly to the DSP, how does it handle phone calls?


----------



## Reid1980

Installing my Dayton tomorrow or Monday just hoping my speakers will handle the increase in power. Recommended 180 watts per pair ill be putting 540 watts to them haha.


----------



## minbari

AAAAAAA said:


> How does the Bluetooth work with your phone for music playing and calls...Pair the phone to it instead of the car stereo, then can stream music directly to the DSP, how does it handle phone calls?


It doesn't handle calls. Only streaming audio

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## ricren

This product is very good! Replaced my Rockford 3sixty3.
Talking about extra features, it would be nice if it had a simple shelving Eq on the input , just bass and treble (like the miniDSP).
How difficult would be to add this feature in a future product? Is a software thing or a limitation on the hardware part? I gladly exchange one (or more) of the Parametric EQ on the outputs for one EQ on the input. I do not use all of them anyway.


----------



## AAAAAAA

minbari said:


> It doesn't handle calls. Only streaming audio
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


So if you get a call, then you're answering it through the speaker phone or bringing it to your face basically?


----------



## minbari

AAAAAAA said:


> So if you get a call, then you're answering it through the speaker phone or bringing it to your face basically?


Or through the bt in your vehicle. Its no different than how you did it before

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## minbari

ricren said:


> This product is very good! Replaced my Rockford 3sixty3.
> Talking about extra features, it would be nice if it had a simple shelving Eq on the input , just bass and treble (like the miniDSP).
> How difficult would be to add this feature in a future product? Is a software thing or a limitation on the hardware part? I gladly exchange one (or more) of the Parametric EQ on the outputs for one EQ on the input. I do not use all of them anyway.


It does have shelf on the outputs

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## AAAAAAA

minbari said:


> Or through the bt in your vehicle. Its no different than how you did it before
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


So phonee will automatically switch between Bluetooth devices? Sorry I've only ever had one device connected at a time, that's why I'm trying to figure out the work flow


----------



## minbari

AAAAAAA said:


> So phonee will automatically switch between Bluetooth devices? Sorry I've only ever had one device connected at a time, that's why I'm trying to figure out the work flow


It should. On android anyway, you have two BT setting. "Audio streams" and "phone calls" you can set different devices for either/or or both. It will only utilize one at a time (so if you get a call, music stops)

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Patriot83

OneGun said:


> This is my first DSP ever and I just completed the installation yesterday. Had an issue initially with no sound output, but after messing around, I got it working. Must have had one of the outputs (volumes) off I guess.
> 
> Anyway, at the same time I installed the DSP, I also installed new components up front (Pioneer TS-Z65CH).
> 
> I'm nowhere near completing the tuning yet and have only done some very initial setup but even now I'm very pleased with the handful of tracks I've played through this new setup.
> 
> It will take some time for me to learn everything I need to know to maximize this very powerful tool.
> 
> So just to give some input here from an absolute noob, I'm very happy with my purchase and am looking forward to having more time to figure out the tweaks I need to make.


One Gun, what are your impressions of those pioneer components?


----------



## ricren

minbari said:


> It does have shelf on the outputs
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


But it's not the same. I run a tri-amplified front stage without a HU,listening to very different styles of music,recorded on old and close dates, so that sound very different. They need tone adjustements constantly.
It would be nice to have a simple shelf EQ on the inputs so I could eq the stereo pair. 
Still I wonder if it's a soft or a hardware limitation.


----------



## minbari

ricren said:


> But it's not the same. I run a tri-amplified front stage without a HU,listening to very different styles of music,recorded on old and close dates, so that sound very different. They need tone adjustements constantly.
> It would be nice to have a simple shelf EQ on the inputs so I could eq the stereo pair.
> Still I wonder if it's a soft or a hardware limitation.


You can always ask on the PE website. The eng regularly answers questions.

Another option
A) if you only need 1 set of inputs and 3 sets of outputs. You can route an output to an input. Instant input eq.
B) buy 2 408. Use one for input eq. Still cheaper than most other DSP

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## OneGun

Patriot83 said:


> One Gun, what are your impressions of those pioneer components?


Right now, as I mentioned in another thread, it's hard for me to give a proper review because I installed the DSP at the same time and I'm definitely not where I want to be with the tune. 

But if I were forced to give some feedback, I think these components can really provide an excellent amount of detail but at the moment, the highs seem a bit bright. However, this is not likely the fault of the drivers but of the tune. 

Once I'm confident that the tune is at least 90% where I feel it should be, I will post a review thread as it seems there are a few here who are interested in some feedback on these.


----------



## SilentWrath

The new PC software will not let me load any of my old tunes from the PC. When I go to File- Load PC preset it gives an error window that says " An attempt was made to access an unnamed file past it's end" 

Anyone else have this problem??


----------



## Truthunter

SilentWrath said:


> The new PC software will not let me load any of my old tunes from the PC. When I go to File- Load PC preset it gives an error window that says " An attempt was made to access an unnamed file past it's end"
> 
> Anyone else have this problem??


Wait, there is new PC software? What are the changes/inmprovements?


----------



## SilentWrath

Truthunter said:


> SilentWrath said:
> 
> 
> 
> The new PC software will not let me load any of my old tunes from the PC. When I go to File- Load PC preset it gives an error window that says " An attempt was made to access an unnamed file past it's end"
> 
> Anyone else have this problem??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, there is new PC software? What are the changes/inmprovements?
Click to expand...

You can name outputs, and they added a xover defeat option


----------



## rton20s

SilentWrath said:


> The new PC software will not let me load any of my old tunes from the PC. When I go to File- Load PC preset it gives an error window that says " An attempt was made to access an unnamed file past it's end"
> 
> Anyone else have this problem??


----------



## cycleguy

Just tried to get mine up and running but had no joy I’m not getting sound all I can get is very low volume when I turn up the H/U to full and I mean very low ? I have used the speaker inputs from my 2 front channels which I have connected to the white and grey speaker input cables on the DSP loom plug. Does this unit require all 4 speaker cables to be used when using the high level inputs ? I have selected SPK on the unit as my input method I have also looked at my setup inputs to make sure I have not muted all the outputs all my Xovers look to be what I have chosen so I’m not sure what my problem is.All the amp settings have not been changed


----------



## minbari

cycleguy said:


> Just tried to get mine up and running but had no joy I’m not getting sound all I can get is very low volume when I turn up the H/U to full and I mean very low ? I have used the speaker inputs from my 2 front channels which I have connected to the white and grey speaker input cables on the DSP loom plug. Does this unit require all 4 speaker cables to be used when using the high level inputs ? I have selected SPK on the unit as my input method I have also looked at my setup inputs to make sure I have not muted all the outputs all my Xovers look to be what I have chosen so I’m not sure what my problem is.All the amp settings have not been changed


Can you see thr green led coming on?

How is the input mixer set?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## cycleguy

minbari said:


> Can you see thr green led coming on?
> 
> How is the input mixer set?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Yes the green led is on and the channels have been assigned as follows 

Left tw ch1 - ch1 input

Right tw ch2 - ch2 input

Left mid ch3 - ch1 input

Right mid ch4 - ch2 input

Sub ch5 - ch1 input

Sub ch6 - ch2 input


----------



## minbari

cycleguy said:


> Yes the green led is on and the channels have been assigned as follows
> 
> Left tw ch1 - ch1 input
> 
> Right tw ch2 - ch2 input
> 
> Left mid ch3 - ch1 input
> 
> Right mid ch4 - ch2 input
> 
> Sub ch5 - ch1 input
> 
> Sub ch6 - ch2 input


Some people have reported that the high level channel input are wrong. Set ch 3 and 4 input as well (same corresponding outputs) and see if that solves it.
If that doesn't do you might have to get a replacement

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## OneGun

When I first hooked mine up and powered it up, I too had no sound... like zero sound. The first setup I did was with my phone (iPhone). From what I could see, I had everything set up right, but just got no output. 

So then I hooked up my PC and went through everything again. After a bit of messing around, I got it working. Honestly don't know exactly what I did to fix it. Now it's fine. 

?


----------



## rcg703

Make sure the input mixer is set correctly for the corresponding channels.


----------



## rcg703

I ran into an issue when setting my gains on my amp and found I couldn't get enough output on my mids and tweets with just setting channels 1 and 3 to input 1, and 2 and 4 to input 2. I had to turn both input 1 and 2 up all the way on each channel to get the desired calculated voltage (set gains with DMM). Prior to doing so, I could turn the gain knob up all the way and only get 10 volts.


----------



## cycleguy

minbari said:


> Some people have reported that the high level channel input are wrong. Set ch 3 and 4 input as well (same corresponding outputs) and see if that solves it.
> If that doesn't do you might have to get a replacement
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Thanks minbari now i have sound as I done as you suggested it sounds ok but a bit of tuning will be required to get it close to where my MS8 was playing. after setting up the delay the stage is pulling way over to the right (RHD VEHICLE)


----------



## minbari

Good to hear! You shouldn't need the ch 1 , 2 inputs on at all now. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## rcg703

rcg703 said:


> I ran into an issue when setting my gains on my amp and found I couldn't get enough output on my mids and tweets with just setting channels 1 and 3 to input 1, and 2 and 4 to input 2. I had to turn both input 1 and 2 up all the way on each channel to get the desired calculated voltage (set gains with DMM). Prior to doing so, I could turn the gain knob up all the way and only get 10 volts.


Now that I think about it, is this going to throw off my soundstage??


----------



## minbari

rcg703 said:


> Now that I think about it, is this going to throw off my soundstage??


First..... Stop setting gains with a DMM! No bigger waste of time in the audio world. 

It shouldn't effect your soundstage at all. Get the balance of mid and tweet right it will sound fine. The 408 has output if 3.5 volts. No reason you can't get enough output from any amplifier with that.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## rcg703

I didn't use the DMM initially, but when I cranked the amp gains and thought "it should be much louder than this", I busted it out to see what kind of voltage I was getting. I was thinking that using both input 1 and input 2 would throw off the left/right balance but I guess that's part of the function of the DSP to take whatever input you give it and let it handle the output.


----------



## minbari

Ok. Sanity check is fine. Just don't set your gains that way 

If the content of the 2 inpyts is different, it will sum them. If it is the same, it's completely redundant and won't really effect the output good or bad

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## cycleguy

well I found out what my problem was with the stage pulling to one side the left/right were reversed so messed up the delay somewhat. but first impressions are good also no noise in the system


----------



## Grinder

minbari said:


> First..... Stop setting gains with a DMM! No bigger waste of time in the audio world.
> 
> It shouldn't effect your soundstage at all. Get the balance of mid and tweet right it will sound fine. * The 408 has output if 3.5 volts. No reason you can't get enough output from any amplifier with that.*
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


As an aside, is the output voltage not dependent upon input voltage?

The reason I ask... I just went from a miniDSP 2x4 to a DSP-408, due to the unacceptably high noise floor of the former (especially with respect to my horns), and the higher output voltage of the latter (which I had hoped would increase the output potential of my subs' Crown XLS 1502 - on its .775 volt "high input sensitivity" setting).

While noise floor is far lower with the DSP-408 (though not nearly as low as I had hoped), there has been little or no change in the output potential of the Crown (with both DSPs requiring gobs of internal level boost, via high-shelf input and high input-output levels respectively).

...which brings me to the source (and its presumably too-low input voltage): computer HDMI/TV/SPDIF/Fiio-Taishan D03K DAC/DSP. 

...which has ultimately lead me to conclude that my output level and noise floor bottleneck (.9 V/3.5 V respective DSP maximum output voltage specifications notwithstanding) has been the HDMI/TV/SPDIF/DAC all along.

Am I on the right track?


----------



## minbari

Grinder said:


> As an aside, is the output voltage not dependent upon input voltage?
> 
> The reason I ask... I just went from a miniDSP 2x4 to a DSP-408, due to the unacceptably high noise floor of the former (especially with respect to my horns), and the higher output voltage of the latter (which I had hoped would increase the output potential of my subs' Crown XLS 1502 - on its .775 volt "high input sensitivity" setting).
> 
> While noise floor is far lower with the DSP-408 (though not nearly as low as I had hoped), there has been little or no change in the output potential of the Crown (with both DSPs requiring gobs of internal level boost, via high-shelf input and high input-output levels respectively).
> 
> ...which brings me to the source (and its presumably too-low input voltage): computer HDMI/TV/SPDIF/Fiio-Taishan D03K DAC/DSP.
> 
> ...which has ultimately lead me to conclude that my output level and noise floor bottleneck (.9 V/3.5 V respective DSP maximum output voltage specifications notwithstanding) has been the HDMI/TV/SPDIF/DAC all along.
> 
> Am I on the right track?


Input shouldn't be a limiting factor unless your input from HU (whatever) is only 500mV or something then it might not be able to gain enough.

On mine I have the master volume set to 55. 
Inputs max (except left inputs at 78 to balance )
Midbass at 60
Tweets at 54
Bass at 50.

I have tweet amp all the way down and midbass amp about 1/4 up. Gets louder than ****. 

So may be just needing to mess with gain levels more?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## SilentWrath

Grinder, what is your master volume set at on the 408?

Like minibari said his is at 55 out of 66

I be found that there is more noise floor is master volume is over 60 on my setup. Dead quiet until 60 then increasing noise floor up to 66 where it bid noticeable but not horrible.

I'm sure with horns it would be amplified though.


----------



## Grinder

minbari said:


> Input shouldn't be a limiting factor unless your input from HU (whatever) is only 500mV or something then it might not be able to gain enough.
> 
> On mine I have the master volume set to 55.
> Inputs max (except left inputs at 78 to balance )
> Midbass at 60
> Tweets at 54
> Bass at 50.
> 
> I have tweet amp all the way down and midbass amp about 1/4 up. Gets louder than ****.
> 
> So may be just needing to mess with gain levels more?





SilentWrath said:


> Grinder, what is your master volume set at on the 408?
> 
> Like minibari said his is at 55 out of 66
> 
> I be found that there is more noise floor is master volume is over 60 on my setup. Dead quiet until 60 then increasing noise floor up to 66 where it bid noticeable but not horrible.
> 
> I'm sure with horns it would be amplified though.


Thanks, guys!

I have the 408’s master volume at 6 dB (max) and sub outputs (channels 1 & 2) at 0 dB (max), in order for the Crown’s volume controls’ ordinary default positions to be just two clicks from maximum, allowing enough volume control headroom to bump them up a click or two (max) when listening to music that is inherently lacking in low end.

Horns outputs (channels 3 & 4) are at -9.7 dB, striking a balance between subwoofer volume and horns volume (ordinary default setting of -10 within a min/max range of -62/+16 via Kenwood KR-X1000 HT receiver, leaving some headroom for serious stratoblasting, LOL. I should note that this receiver volume would need to be turned way down if we were to listen to the radio or CD player, for example. I should also not that receiver volume needs to be turned down a few clicks when watching Amazon (though maybe not at all when watching Netflix - both via Roku enabled TV). Otherwise, volume is controlled via VLC media player or YouTube (also via same TV, with computer volume always at 100%) …again, with receiver volume set at -10 (or as high as -0 during serious stratoblasting).

While these settings result in mild hum (from a pair of sealed Dayton HF 15s), and mild-moderate hiss from the horns, I feel that it is an acceptable and worthwhile trade-off for high-passing the horns. Without DSP, the bass horns are only low-passed (passives) …and there is no noticeable hiss.

Yes, these horns certainly do bring out whatever hiss potential there might be, LOL.

Horn system description (in case anyone’s wondering):
JBL Professional Series 2402H ultra-high frequency transducers (tweeters).
JBL Professional Series 2440 compression drivers (midrange horns).
JBL Professional Series 2309 horns (midrange horns).
JBL Professional Series 2390 acoustic lenses.
Eminence EM-54-15-H18 15” pro woofers (in custom 100 Hz folded horns).
Custom passive crossovers.


----------



## Grinder

minbari said:


> Input shouldn't be a limiting factor unless your *input from HU (whatever) is only 500mV or something* then it might not be able to gain enough...


This must be the case, as within this application there seems to have been little or no noticeable difference between the 408 and miniDSP 2x4 in terms of usable output strength (despite their output voltage ratings of 3.5 V and .9 V respectively). I suppose I could go ahead and measure the incoming and outgoing voltage, but it is what it is (i.e. there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it ...apart from some sort of aftermarket sound card, to address the computer at least, which is the source at least 90% of the time). Fortunately, the computer HDMI/TV SPDIF/DAC output signal is just strong enough (while the resultant 408 noise floor is just low enough) for me to tolerate the system as is.


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## minbari

You can always add a preamp just before the 408 to give a better signal to noise ratio. I have an audio control LC2i which has 9v outputs. (I also use the bass level knob with it)

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Grinder

...I would very much appreciate specific recommendations toward the purchase of an inexpensive USB sound card that would solve my low signal voltage issues (assuming there is such a thing, LOL). I have poked around a few times before, but nothing I found seemed clearly able to do the trick.


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## minbari

Lol, i just realized this is for a home audio system.

Does it have to be a usb sound card? Just a standard rca preamp might work

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## SilentWrath

Yeah, I really think more voltage in will allow you to drop master volume to 0db (60) and eliminate your noise floor.

Sorry I can't help you with recommendations!


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## minbari

something like this maybe?

https://www.zackelectronics.com/rad...tAcgP3XD9rttVz446XqFdiYaWeot-Qm4aAg5IEALw_wcB


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## Grinder

minbari said:


> You can always add a preamp just before the 408 to give a better signal to noise ratio. I have an audio control LC2i which has 9v outputs. (I also use the bass level knob with it)


Hmmmm... Speaker-level inputs... Near as I can tell, my only option in this regard would be to feed the LC2i from either the TV or computer headphone jack. These outputs are pretty noisy (most noticeably, odd computer noises); and I wonder if they'd be strong enough to produce the desired result via the LC2i?


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## minbari

Grinder said:


> Hmmmm... Speaker-level inputs... Near as I can tell, my only option in this regard would be to feed the LC2i from either the TV or computer headphone jack. These outputs are pretty noisy (most noticeably, odd computer noises); and I wonder if they'd be strong enough to produce the desired result via the LC2i?


Ya was just using that as an example. 2 or 3 watts from a tv prolly won't be better than what you have

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Grinder

minbari said:


> Lol, i just realized this is for a home audio system.
> 
> Does it have to be a usb sound card? *Just a standard rca preamp might work*


The latter might be an ideal solution, considering I'm already feeding DSP via receiver preamp outputs (in order to both sync subwoofer volume with receiver volume, and to high-pass the horns ...by feeding receiver amp inputs with DSP outputs.

Presumably, I would add such a preamp device between the receiver preamp outputs and the DSP (?).

I have no familiarity with "standard RCA preamp" devices, so specific recommendations would be much appreciated.


----------



## Grinder

minbari said:


> something like this maybe?
> 
> https://www.zackelectronics.com/rad...tAcgP3XD9rttVz446XqFdiYaWeot-Qm4aAg5IEALw_wcB


(sorry, I'm not keeping up, LOL)

Thanks! Perhaps that will do the trick. I'll look into it further.


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## minbari

Grinder said:


> The latter might be an ideal solution, considering I'm already feeding DSP via receiver preamp outputs (in order to both sync subwoofer volume with receiver volume, and to high-pass the horns ...by feeding receiver amp inputs with DSP outputs.
> 
> *Presumably, I would add such a preamp device between the receiver preamp outputs and the DSP (?).*
> 
> I have no familiarity with "standard RCA preamp" devices, so specific recommendations would be much appreciated.


Exactly. Get that 0.9 volt source up to 2-2.5 volts then the 408 had something to work with

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Grinder

minbari said:


> Exactly. Get that 0.9 volt source up to 2-2.5 volts then the 408 had something to work with.


Great! ...and it seems that this is something I might not get from a sound card or the like (at least not while controlling horns AND subs volume via receiver, while ALSO high-passing the horns) due to what might be an inherently low receiver preamp signal strength ...but then, if that were the case, it seems that I wouldn't have to turn the volume WAY down before switching to radio (lest I go deaf and/or wake the dead, LOL). Come to think of it, I need to go and hook up my CD player (to the receiver's CD player RCA inputs) and see how that compares. 

If possible, it seems that the most elegant solution would be one that would minimize the number of devices in the signal chain. For example, if the weak signal/high noise floor issue is confined to the computer HDMI/TV SPDIF/DAC input; and if it were possible to drop all of that (as well as the additional preamp) in favor of a USB sound card (digital computer audio to analog output, without all the odd computer noises and/or greater than standard 3.5 computer audio output signal strength) to receiver auxiliary input, then that would seem to be my best bet (presuming the existence and affordability of such a device).

Sincere apologies, folks (to the extent that I've hijacked this thread with my tangentially related signal strength issues). :blush:


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## Grinder

minbari said:


> Exactly. Get that 0.9 volt source up to 2-2.5 volts then the 408 had something to work with.


BTW, there doesn't appear to be an output voltage specification for that phono preamp. Do you think it's likely to be up in the 2-2.5 V range (if it weren't already apparent, I'm essentially clueless regarding the ins and outs of standard low-level signal voltages ...and pretty much everything else, for that matter LOL)?


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## minbari

You would have to contact the manufacturer and see if they have that info

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## AVMaster

Just got mine installed a few days ago. Nice little unit. My number one feature request over all other would be the ability to use the knob as a subwoofer level control instead of master volume. For the car audio guys this is a big deal. The ability to choose which output channels the know controlls would be a game changer for this little guy.


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## minbari

AVMaster said:


> Just got mine installed a few days ago. Nice little unit. My number one feature request over all other would be the ability to use the knob as a subwoofer level control instead of master volume. For the car audio guys this is a big deal. The ability to choose which output channels the know controlls would be a game changer for this little guy.


Lol. Been requested many times.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## AVMaster

I actually haven’t seen any app updates since release except for one listing ‘bug fixes’. I hope this device doesn’t turn out to be like nearly every other DSP on the market where changes and feature requests are ignored. I am hoping that being from a DIY organization like Parts Express it will get the attention it deserves and not allowed to become a stale and never updated product. Let’s get going on the day two features guys...no one wants to wait a year for changes or updates to be made.


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## minbari

They actually did add quite a few additions to the bugfix update.

They did say specifically they have no intention of the bass knob thing

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## SilentWrath

SilentWrath said:


> The new PC software will not let me load any of my old tunes from the PC. When I go to File- Load PC preset it gives an error window that says " An attempt was made to access an unnamed file past it's end"
> 
> Anyone else have this problem??


Just checking in to see if anyone else is experiencing this same issue?


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## rennster

Just got this wonderful piece of kit. Very powerful but I get a low hiss with the car off. I have to put my ear to the speakers to hear it and is constant doens't vary with input or output via the mobile app.


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## minbari

rennster said:


> Just got this wonderful piece of kit. Very powerful but I get a low hiss with the car off. I have to put my ear to the speakers to hear it and is constant doens't vary with input or output via the mobile app.


What is your amp gain, dsp output, dsp input set to? Also how much eq above 5khz?

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## rennster

Amp input gain set to 4 volts. Master volume at 50 and outputs the same. I have EQ at + 3dbs at 8khz. Kenwood source unit states that it outputs 2.5 volts.


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## minbari

If you pull the rca off the amp. Hiss disappear?

Pull rca off dsp input and see if it disapears too

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## kanadian-kaos

Supposedly the remote volume control unit for the DSP creates hiss. If you are using it, try unplugging it.


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## rennster

Well. Paint me stupid. Pulled all the RCA inputs to the PPI iON 320.4 amp and the low level hiss is still there with the car turned off. My ear is right up tot he speaker though.
The amp is mounted underneath passenger seat and is mounted on a piece of cutting board plastic underneath the carpet. Ground is less than a foot long with 8 gauge wire.


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## minbari

rennster said:


> Well. Paint me stupid. Pulled all the RCA inputs to the PPI iON 320.4 amp and the low level hiss is still there with the car turned off. My ear is right up tot he speaker though.


If you have to get that close, i wouldn't worry too much lol

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## Grinder

minbari said:


> If you have to get that close, i wouldn't worry too much lol


Agreed. I wish I had to get that close to hear hiss from my horns, LOL.

However, mine is a special case for a couple of reasons, so I'm just happy that the DSP-408 produces FAR less hiss (noise floor) than my miniDSP 2x4 under identical circumstances.


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## Mindcrime

BrianSomething said:


> Anyone want my NIB 408? I'm going a different direction in my build and won't need it. It was NEVER hooked up, just the box opened. All factory pieces and packaging still there. $120 shipped.


did you sell it?


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## cycleguy

I see that some of you guys are running a Lc2i with this 408 i was running my DSP with high level speaker inputs. But today I installed a lc2i along with the ACR 1 in order to get a better high voltage signal but it looks like the ACR 1 is controlling the mids in the doors and the sub to an extent. Would this be down to the problems some have had with the channels being not as they are meant ?


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## JCsAudio

cycleguy said:


> I see that some of you guys are running a Lc2i with this 408 i was running my DSP with high level speaker inputs. But today I installed a lc2i along with the ACR 1 in order to get a better high voltage signal but it looks like the ACR 1 is controlling the mids in the doors and the sub to an extent. Would this be down to the problems some have had with the channels being not as they are meant ?


Sounds like you have the levels mixed up within the mixer. Are you sure they are assigned to the correct output and not partially mixed?


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## minbari

cycleguy said:


> I see that some of you guys are running a Lc2i with this 408 i was running my DSP with high level speaker inputs. But today I installed a lc2i along with the ACR 1 in order to get a better high voltage signal but it looks like the ACR 1 is controlling the mids in the doors and the sub to an extent. Would this be down to the problems some have had with the channels being not as they are meant ?


Just make sure you have the mixer setup correctly.
For mine I set it for the main out on the lc2i to the input 1, 2 and sub out to input 3, 4. Mixer set for input 1, 2 for channel 1,2,3,4(mid and tweet) outputs. Input 3, 4 for channel 5, 6 outputs. (Sub)

Pull the rcas off the input 3,4 and make sure your sub doesn't make any sound. If it does, you will need to fix the mixer

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## cycleguy

V8toilet said:


> Sounds like you have the levels mixed up within the mixer. Are you sure they are assigned to the correct output and not partially mixed?


I did go in and change them as with the H/level inputs I was only using 2 pairs and now with the Lc2i I have 4 inputs. It was getting dark when I wrapped up so will recheck in the Morning. Have you finished tweeking your 408 Paul ?


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## cycleguy

minbari said:


> Just make sure you have the mixer setup correctly.
> For mine I set it for the main out on the lc2i to the input 1, 2 and sub out to input 3, 4. Mixer set for input 1, 2 for channel 1,2,3,4(mid and tweet) outputs. Input 3, 4 for channel 5, 6 outputs. (Sub)
> 
> Pull the rcas off the input 3,4 and make sure your sub doesn't make any sound. If it does, you will need to fix the mixer
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I have assigned my inputs and outputs just as you have minbari its late here in the UK so will do a little testing in the morning


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## minbari

cycleguy said:


> I have assigned my inputs and outputs just as you have minbari its late here in the UK so will do a little testing in the morning


I am sure you will get it. It has to be a mixer issue

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## cycleguy

minbari said:


> I am sure you will get it. It has to be a mixer issue
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


well it may be late 23.33pm here but this hobby gets hold of you I have just been out there with the ipad to look at things and it was as you and v8toilet said a mixer issue all fixed thanks. Just need to learn about setting this up to get the best from it


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## minbari

Good to hear you got it sorted. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## JCsAudio

cycleguy said:


> I did go in and change them as with the H/level inputs I was only using 2 pairs and now with the Lc2i I have 4 inputs. It was getting dark when I wrapped up so will recheck in the Morning. Have you finished tweeking your 408 Paul ?


I had trouble setting the time alignment by inputting th distances directly into the DSP as it was calculating it incorrectly so I used this time delay calculator and now it’s perfect. This time delay calculator came up the same ms numbers as my TwK 88 did.


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## cycleguy

V8toilet said:


> I had trouble setting the time alignment by inputting th distances directly into the DSP as it was calculating it incorrectly so I used this time delay calculator and now it’s perfect. This time delay calculator came up the same ms numbers as my TwK 88 did.


I will give that a try latter today my delay has not put the sound where you would expect it to, We are right hand drive here and my sound is pulling to the right by a good bit. What was yours doing Paul ?


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## richardar6

V8toilet said:


> cycleguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did go in and change them as with the H/level inputs I was only using 2 pairs and now with the Lc2i I have 4 inputs. It was getting dark when I wrapped up so will recheck in the Morning. Have you finished tweeking your 408 Paul ?
> 
> 
> 
> I had trouble setting the time alignment by inputting th distances directly into the DSP as it was calculating it incorrectly so I used this time delay calculator and now it’s perfect. This time delay calculator came up the same ms numbers as my TwK 88 did.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! 

I've been meaning to try setting it by Ms because entering it by distance yielded less than ideal results. I tried adjusting the distance measurements by ear and got what I thought were better results.When I saw the link you provided, I used it to enter the same measurements to convert it and plugged the numbers into the DSP. The results went from good to great! While I don't know why there is a difference between entering actual distance measurements versus time into the 408 (Don't know what distance input is for if it doesn't correctly adjust the time alignment) but I can tell you entering it in Ms got me MUCH better results from the start. Tremendous improvement. I went from I like it, to I love it- so thanks again for the post.


----------



## ckirocz28

richardar6 said:


> Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!
> 
> I've been meaning to try setting it by Ms because entering it by distance yielded less than ideal results. I tried adjusting the distance measurements by ear and got what I thought were better results.When I saw the link you provided, I used it to enter the same measurements to convert it and plugged the numbers into the DSP. The results went from good to great! While I don't know why there is a difference between entering actual distance measurements versus time into the 408 (Don't know what distance input is for if it doesn't correctly adjust the time alignment) but I can tell you entering it in Ms got me MUCH better results from the start. Tremendous improvement. I went from I like it, to I love it- so thanks again for the post.


I have no experience with this dsp, but I have seen a post somewhere that some dsp's require you to enter the difference in distance from the farthest speaker to the one your adjusting.
Example: farthest speaker is 60 inches away, current speaker is 30 inches away, input should be 60-30= 30 inches.


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## stelloy

Hi guys, new guy here and new with the car audio world. Just had my system installed:

Focal PS165FX
Dayton Audio DSP-408
Zapco ST-4X SQ 4Channel Amp
Kenwood KAC-9106D
Dayton Audio HO 12"

Now, I know how the focals sound and for some reason mine sounds kind of muddy and just wrong all together, no mid-bass. And I'm also running active. The installer showed me everything about my installation and how it's wired and he's saying it's that the DSP is the one to blame for the lack of clarity/sound I'm looking for. Is this correct that I'm being limited by the DSP?


----------



## OneGun

stelloy said:


> Hi guys, new guy here and new with the car audio world. Just had my system installed:
> 
> Focal PS165FX
> Dayton Audio DSP-408
> Zapco ST-4X SQ 4Channel Amp
> Kenwood KAC-9106D
> Dayton Audio HO 12"
> 
> Now, I know how the focals sound and for some reason mine sounds kind of muddy and just wrong all together, no mid-bass. And I'm also running active. The installer showed me everything about my installation and how it's wired and he's saying it's that the DSP is the one to blame for the lack of clarity/sound I'm looking for. Is this correct that I'm being limited by the DSP?



I'm skeptical of what he told you. 

Can you post any info on your DSP settings? Crossover points, boost/cut of the tweets/mids/sub?

The app can be downloaded free for iOS and PC. This will let you see what the settings are. 

I'm very curious about what your crossover settings are and the boost... and if any time alignment was even set.


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## RRizz

If by saying it was the DSP, he meant the way he tuned it, Its possible. But thats on him, not the equipt.


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## minbari

stelloy said:


> Hi guys, new guy here and new with the car audio world. Just had my system installed:
> 
> Focal PS165FX
> Dayton Audio DSP-408
> Zapco ST-4X SQ 4Channel Amp
> Kenwood KAC-9106D
> Dayton Audio HO 12"
> 
> Now, I know how the focals sound and for some reason mine sounds kind of muddy and just wrong all together, no mid-bass. And I'm also running active. The installer showed me everything about my installation and how it's wired and he's saying it's that the DSP is the one to blame for the lack of clarity/sound I'm looking for. Is this correct that I'm being limited by the DSP?


Find a different installer. They want to blame the device they don't sell. Typical

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## JCsAudio

richardar6 said:


> Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!
> 
> I've been meaning to try setting it by Ms because entering it by distance yielded less than ideal results. I tried adjusting the distance measurements by ear and got what I thought were better results.When I saw the link you provided, I used it to enter the same measurements to convert it and plugged the numbers into the DSP. The results went from good to great! While I don't know why there is a difference between entering actual distance measurements versus time into the 408 (Don't know what distance input is for if it doesn't correctly adjust the time alignment) but I can tell you entering it in Ms got me MUCH better results from the start. Tremendous improvement. I went from I like it, to I love it- so thanks again for the post.


Awsome! I love it when I can help someone make their system better.


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## Lurchalicious

Would utilizing this DSP effectively eliminate the need for something like the LC7i when integrating with an OEM head unit?

Has anyone have input on how this DSP would compare next to a unit like the Fix-86?

It appears this unit has great reviews so far and I am considering picking it up for my build.


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## minbari

Luechalicious said:


> Would utilizing this DSP effectively eliminate the need for something like the LC7i when integrating with an OEM head unit?
> 
> Has anyone have input on how this DSP would compare next to a unit like the Fix-86?
> 
> It appears this unit has great reviews so far and I am considering picking it up for my build.


It will mix all the inputs, but it is limited to 4.

Id you have more than 4, the lc7i could do the integrating and the dsp everything else

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## Truthunter

Luechalicious said:


> Would utilizing this DSP effectively eliminate the need for something like the LC7i when integrating with an OEM head unit?
> 
> Has anyone have input on how this DSP would compare next to a unit like the Fix-86?
> 
> It appears this unit has great reviews so far and I am considering picking it up for my build.


I haven't used the LC7i but as far as I can tell; the only thing the LC7i adds over the Dayton DSP is Accubass and channel summing which depending on your application may not be needed.


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## 04quadcab

Luechalicious said:


> Would utilizing this DSP effectively eliminate the need for something like the LC7i when integrating with an OEM head unit?.


That will depend on your OEM head unit. 

This unit has what appear to be speaker-level inputs. So if you have a simple 4-channel factory head unit then you could use it that way. Many amplifiers also have this feature so if you want to keep a simple 4-channel factory head unit then you don't _need_ one of these.

The problem arises when you don't have a simple 4-channel factory head unit. You may have one that sends a data signal to an external amp, or one that splits signal into mids and tweets, adds fake engine noise, controls the door chime, reduces the bass as you crank the volume, or any number of things. If this is the case then then you will need something else before using this DSP. That something else may be another brand DSP.


----------



## Lurchalicious

04quadcab said:


> That will depend on your OEM head unit.
> 
> This unit has what appear to be speaker-level inputs. So if you have a simple 4-channel factory head unit then you could use it that way. Many amplifiers also have this feature so if you want to keep a simple 4-channel factory head unit then you don't _need_ one of these.
> 
> The problem arises when you don't have a simple 4-channel factory head unit. You may have one that sends a data signal to an external amp, or one that splits signal into mids and tweets, adds fake engine noise, controls the door chime, reduces the bass as you crank the volume, or any number of things. If this is the case then then you will need something else before using this DSP. That something else may be another brand DSP.



Almost positive this head unit utilizes a rolloff at 40hz.

Pretty sure its speaker level out of the headunit and no external amplification/modification - but no idea what has already occurred within the head unit.


----------



## MAIDEN69

I'm yet to install or play with mine but have a question. Will be running front 3 ways and a sub. No rears. I want a subwoofer level control along with the main volume. I know the Dayton RVC can't control sub level so looking for another option. If a head unit has an rca subwoofer output along with a subwoofer level control associated with that output that is separate from the main volume control. Could I use the front outputs on the head unit for the ch1 & ch2 inputs on the Dayton which will sum to ch 1-6 for the 3ways. Then the sub out on the head unit into inputs ch3/ch4 on the Dayton to be summed to the remaining ch7-8 for the subwoofer? Wouldn't I then have my sub level control? I'm just not sure of the input summing options available. 
I'm still yet to decide on a head unit so spinning ideas.


----------



## OneGun

MAIDEN69 said:


> I'm yet to install or play with mine but have a question. Will be running front 3 ways and a sub. No rears. I want a subwoofer level control along with the main volume. I know the Dayton RVC can't control sub level so looking for another option. If a head unit has an rca subwoofer output along with a subwoofer level control associated with that output that is separate from the main volume control. Could I use the front outputs on the head unit for the ch1 & ch2 inputs on the Dayton which will sum to ch 1-6 for the 3ways. Then the sub out on the head unit into inputs ch3/ch4 on the Dayton to be summed to the remaining ch7-8 for the subwoofer? Wouldn't I then have my sub level control? I'm just not sure of the input summing options available.
> I'm still yet to decide on a head unit so spinning ideas.



Short answer is yes. This is how mine is set up, albeit I'm only running a 2-way front stage, but I can still control the sub level independently via the HU.


----------



## minbari

MAIDEN69 said:


> I'm yet to install or play with mine but have a question. Will be running front 3 ways and a sub. No rears. I want a subwoofer level control along with the main volume. I know the Dayton RVC can't control sub level so looking for another option. If a head unit has an rca subwoofer output along with a subwoofer level control associated with that output that is separate from the main volume control. Could I use the front outputs on the head unit for the ch1 & ch2 inputs on the Dayton which will sum to ch 1-6 for the 3ways. Then the sub out on the head unit into inputs ch3/ch4 on the Dayton to be summed to the remaining ch7-8 for the subwoofer? Wouldn't I then have my sub level control? I'm just not sure of the input summing options available.
> I'm still yet to decide on a head unit so spinning ideas.


That is exactly how I do it. So yes it will work

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## MAIDEN69

Cool, sounds like this is the best solution rather than adding a universal control inline right before the sub amp. Now need to figure out what head unit to run. It's my daily Lexus Sedan so really want a backup camera. Just not sure on the double dins. May look for a single din with the features I want and just use a backup camera that pops up on my phone which I have mounted right below where the head sits. Think I have seen some cameras that work with phones. Maybe I am wrong.


----------



## bigemike

I am new to this, so apologize, as I have been reading but need some info.

The 408 dsp, I have a 2018 camry and I am using the base model radio outputs into a line converter now, I plan on running those into the 408 and running my amps off of that. I think the only concern there is if the radio is doing anything funky with that signal.

Is there a microphone app or attachment to this or any other dsp, that would somewhat auto tune my setup?

And setup wise I have factory door locations for a 6.5" a dash location for a 3.5" and I dont mind adding a tweeter somewhere if a 3 way setup would be best. What should I look at speaker wise and keep it under $300

I have a premiere PRS-x340 for mids and highs
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Amplifiers/PRS-X340

and a PRS-x720 for my subs, 2 12" comp vr

I might downsize to a single 12" eventually.

Any help would be appreciated


----------



## OneGun

bigemike said:


> I am new to this, so apologize, as I have been reading but need some info.
> 
> The 408 dsp, I have a 2018 camry and I am using the base model radio outputs into a line converter now, I plan on running those into the 408 and running my amps off of that. I think the only concern there is if the radio is doing anything funky with that signal.
> 
> Is there a microphone app or attachment to this or any other dsp, that would somewhat auto tune my setup?



There are no apps that will autotune this DSP for you. It's all manual. Some DSPs have such a feature, some Helix's for example, but now you're in the $1000 neighborhood. 

The good thing is, once you install this DSP, all the physical infrastructure will be in place in the event you decide you want to upgrade to a different or higher end DSP. Although, I'd use this as an opportunity to learn about tuning and spend some time researching, do the best you can with this one. I'm in the same boat. 

Right now, I'm running mine completely flat, no EQ whatsoever. I just set my crossover points and time alignment. Once I get some time, I will continue my previously unsuccessful tuning attempts (manually) using a USB microphone and Room EQ Wizard (aka REW). REW is what many here use (free app) along with a USB mic to tune. You'll have to read/research (YouTube is your friend) about this as it's pretty complex for a beginner.


----------



## bigemike

back in the day circa 20 yrs ago
SQ compettion we would use a spektrum analyzer, a certain cd and look for a flat band, we also tuned to the same flat dead sound.

But it sounds about the same with the app and the usb mic

Thanks for the input.

What about drivers, I need a 6.5" and a 3.5" and a tweet


----------



## OneGun

bigemike said:


> back in the day circa 20 yrs ago
> SQ compettion we would use a spektrum analyzer, a certain cd and look for a flat band, we also tuned to the same flat dead sound.
> 
> But it sounds about the same with the app and the usb mic


That's basically the gist. Although instead of totally flat, there are various "house curves" and "target curves" that people use by loading them into the REW app (via txt file) and then try to match that. But yes, same principle. 

Then they'll use a "pink noise" test tone/track to measure with. Basically sounds like what I'd call "white noise" from an old TV from back in the day. Has all the frequencies in it though.



bigemike said:


> What about drivers, I need a 6.5" and a 3.5" and a tweet



Hopefully some others here can give you advice. I don't have any experience with any 3.5" tweet setups. Lots of options though. If nobody responds, peruse through the various subforums/threads here. Lots of guys here have experience with tons of different setups, both raw drivers, as well as dedicated car audio drivers/driver sets.


----------



## therapture

OneGun said:


> Welcome to the club bro. I feel like at this point, I can just look at my vehicles door panels and they could just fall right off.
> 
> Then I got some decent 2-way components up front, disabled the rears. Now I see the light.
> 
> Will probably never run rears again.




No doubt! Every time I looked at my G8 door trims they started shaking in fear.

Yep, no rears. Having a badass front stage is all I want. Even in my mostly stock truck (for now) I fade almost all the way to the front.


----------



## RRizz

Curious to know if anyone else has any quirky issues with their dsp?
Most recently, on occasion (im saying 2 out of 10 times) I will start the truck, and I will have no subwoofer output. The amp is on, but no output. If I turn off the source, and turn it back on, still no subwoofer... If I shut the key down, and restart, Sub turns on.
Also, on even more rare occasion, After starting the truck, while the head unit is booting up, I get a "crackling sound" through the speakers.... First the woofers, then the mids. Just for about 2 seconds, then it goes quiet, and all is well..
Maybe I'm losing my mind......


----------



## minbari

RRizz said:


> Curious to know if anyone else has any quirky issues with their dsp?
> Most recently, on occasion (im saying 2 out of 10 times) I will start the truck, and I will have no subwoofer output. The amp is on, but no output. If I turn off the source, and turn it back on, still no subwoofer... If I shut the key down, and restart, Sub turns on.
> Also, on even more rare occasion, After starting the truck, while the head unit is booting up, I get a "crackling sound" through the speakers.... First the woofers, then the mids. Just for about 2 seconds, then it goes quiet, and all is well..
> *Maybe I'm losing my mind.....*.


I vote this 

Haven't had anything like that with mine

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Grinder

bigemike said:


> back in the day circa 20 yrs ago
> SQ compettion we would use a spektrum analyzer, a certain cd and look for a flat band, we also tuned to the same flat dead sound.
> 
> But it sounds about the same with the app and the usb mic
> 
> Thanks for the input.
> 
> *What about drivers, I need a 6.5" and a 3.5" and a tweet*


If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest starting a new thread in https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/system-design-help-me-choose-equipment-my-car/ for driver recommendations.


----------



## Grinder

RRizz said:


> Curious to know if anyone else has any quirky issues with their dsp?
> Most recently, on occasion (im saying 2 out of 10 times) I will start the truck, and I will have no subwoofer output. The amp is on, but no output. If I turn off the source, and turn it back on, still no subwoofer... If I shut the key down, and restart, Sub turns on.
> Also, on even more rare occasion, After starting the truck, while the head unit is booting up, I get a "crackling sound" through the speakers.... First the woofers, then the mids. Just for about 2 seconds, then it goes quiet, and all is well..
> Maybe I'm losing my mind......


Hmmmm... 

No issues with mine so far ...except that it does seem to run rather warm-hot; whereas my two miniDSP 2x4s always ran/run perfectly cool under identical circumstances (with no apparent heat whatsoever). Is this normal?


----------



## bigemike

if anyone has a dsp-408 to sell let me know. They are out of stock and I was ready to pull the trigger last night


----------



## m95roadster

Anyone know what the proper procedure is to EQ driver pairs with this unit? TIA


----------



## minbari

Same as any of them

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## OneGun

m95roadster said:


> Anyone know what the proper procedure is to EQ driver pairs with this unit? TIA


I guess if you just want to do pairs, just mute the other drivers that aren't part of that pair and do your EQ'ing. 

The 408 can mute any individual or combination of drivers that you like.


----------



## m95roadster

OneGun said:


> I guess if you just want to do pairs, just mute the other drivers that aren't part of that pair and do your EQ'ing.
> 
> The 408 can mute any individual or combination of drivers that you like.


I am using REW to get my eq filters and have eq'd each driver individually. So I've done measurements in pairs already and was wondering how to now eq the pair. Do I apply the filters to each driver once more?


----------



## OneGun

m95roadster said:


> I am using REW to get my eq filters and have eq'd each driver individually. So I've done measurements in pairs already and was wondering how to now eq the pair. Do I apply the filters to each driver once more?


I'm not certain, but I believe prevailing wisdom, at least among the more experienced here, would say you're done at this point. I may be wrong, but I think guys here recommend eq'ing the individual drivers, then be done with it. 

But I have played with EQ'ing pairs with this DSP and to do so, you'd just "link" the two drivers that you want to apply the same EQ'ing to. But again, I'm not certain that's the recommended approach.


----------



## ckirocz28

m95roadster said:


> I am using REW to get my eq filters and have eq'd each driver individually. So I've done measurements in pairs already and was wondering how to now eq the pair. Do I apply the filters to each driver once more?


Are you talking about applying a house curve on the input eq? I'm not familiar with this dsp so I don't know if it even has input eq.
If you're not talking about input eq, then you're done, like OneGun said. Individual driver eq to appropriate target curves is all you need unless you eq to a flat target then apply a house curve on input eq.


----------



## richardar6

Well, I finally got around to verifying that my left and right inputs into the DSP are indeed switched wrong at the DSP (in addition to fronts being 3&4 and rears being 1&2). I know others have had front and rears reversed, but I may be the only one with right and left reversed also. I verified by disconnecting the speaker level inputs into the DSP and connecting a speaker straight from my OEM headunit, verifying each channel one at a time. I knew everything from the headunit to before the DSP was wired correctly, but I wanted to be 100% sure. 

The original fix was to switch the RCA's (right and left) out of the DSP to the amps. Seems simple enough until I realized (only recently) that bypassing the head unit and streaming Bluetooth, that the channels got reversed. Instruments that you hear on the left side using the headunit, you would hear on the right streaming Bluetooth. 

So now I switched around the speaker level inputs (it bothers my OCD to have to purposely wire things incorrectly) into the DSP and then switched back the RCA's out (hurray, white is left and red is right-as it should be). Now, both headunit or Bluetooth streaming is on the correct side. 

I accepted the front to rear thing, but had I known about the right to left issue, I would exchanged it for another one when I got it in July. Don't get me wrong, I love the DSP, but this particular unit has been a pain in the A$$!


----------



## karmajack

Is this corrected on newer production runs?


----------



## m95roadster

ckirocz28 said:


> Are you talking about applying a house curve on the input eq? I'm not familiar with this dsp so I don't know if it even has input eq.
> If you're not talking about input eq, then you're done, like OneGun said. Individual driver eq to appropriate target curves is all you need unless you eq to a flat target then apply a house curve on input eq.


No, not input eq. Individual driver eq has been done to match target curve, but when I remeasure system response either in pairs or with all speakers playing then additional peaks and dips appear. So I believe additional tuning (pairs, etc.) should be done after individual driver eq.


----------



## richardar6

karmajack said:


> Is this corrected on newer production runs?


I'm pretty sure it has been as I haven't seen any recent posts regarding it. Only a couple of other people that I know of had issues with inputs 1,2, and 3,4 being reversed. To my knowledge, I'm the only one with that issue plus left and right reversals. Probably limited to a few 1st run models.


----------



## JH1973

ckirocz28 said:


> m95roadster said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am using REW to get my eq filters and have eq'd each driver individually. So I've done measurements in pairs already and was wondering how to now eq the pair. Do I apply the filters to each driver once more?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about applying a house curve on the input eq? I'm not familiar with this dsp so I don't know if it even has input eq.
> If you're not talking about input eq, then you're done, like OneGun said. Individual driver eq to appropriate target curves is all you need unless you eq to a flat target then apply a house curve on input eq.
Click to expand...

Did you apply a house curve on the input EQ of your Mini? I EQ'ed output channels and left input flat.


----------



## wsherring

OneGun said:


> I'm not certain, but I believe prevailing wisdom, at least among the more experienced here, would say you're done at this point. I may be wrong, but I think guys here recommend eq'ing the individual drivers, then be done with it.
> 
> But I have played with EQ'ing pairs with this DSP and to do so, you'd just "link" the two drivers that you want to apply the same EQ'ing to. But again, I'm not certain that's the recommended approach.



I don't think it's possible to EQ all left or all right channels together because the DSP also matches the crossovers on the linked channels at the same time. Updated firmware to allow EQ-only linking would be helpful.

Sam


----------



## minbari

wsherring said:


> I don't think it's possible to EQ all left or all right channels together because the DSP also matches the crossovers on the linked channels at the same time. Updated firmware to allow EQ-only linking would be helpful.
> 
> Sam


Most times you wouldn't want this anyway. The right tweeter and right midbass won't be EQd the same

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## OneGun

wsherring said:


> I don't think it's possible to EQ all left or all right channels together because the DSP also matches the crossovers on the linked channels at the same time. Updated firmware to allow EQ-only linking would be helpful.
> 
> Sam





minbari said:


> Most times you wouldn't want this anyway. The right tweeter and right midbass won't be EQd the same



Right.

But if for whatever reason a person wanted to EQ one side at a time, you could just mute the drivers on one side, EQ, then vice versa.


----------



## minbari

You can eq each channel completely independent of other channels. What this won't do is allow you to link channels for only xover, and level and then eq independently. You would have to do it seperately

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## m95roadster

OneGun said:


> Right.
> 
> But if for whatever reason a person wanted to EQ one side at a time, you could just mute the drivers on one side, EQ, then vice versa.


I was wondering how to eq pairs (ex: L-mid and R-mid) correctly not by sides. I do understand linking the channels, but when you do that then the second linked channel adopts the first channels eq filters.


----------



## minbari

m95roadster said:


> I was wondering how to eq pairs (ex: L-mid and R-mid) correctly not by sides. I do understand linking the channels, but when you do that then the second linked channel adopts the first channels eq filters.


Yup. If you want to eq left and right separately. You can't link channels

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## ckirocz28

JH1973 said:


> Did you apply a house curve on the input EQ of your Mini? I EQ'ed output channels and left input flat.


Yes. Eq'd flat on output eq; imported a flat fr to REW, eq'd to the AudioFrog curve, exported biquads to files, imported to MiniDSP input eq.


----------



## cycleguy

Is it possible to use this DSP with a DAP I dont know anything about these DAP's as I have been a CD guy for a long time but I do like the idea of having good sound quality without all the CD's in the vehicle. If so how would I go about connecting one ? at present I am using 2 channel high level input into a Audio control Lc2i then a full range pair of RCA and a sub pair into my amps.


----------



## Grinder

cycleguy said:


> Is it possible to use this DSP with a DAP I dont know anything about these DAP's as I have been a CD guy for a long time but I do like the idea of having good sound quality without all the CD's in the vehicle. If so how would I go about connecting one ? at present I am using 2 channel high level input into a Audio control Lc2i then a full range pair of RCA and a sub pair into my amps.


Yes, 3.5mm (DAP headphone output) to RCA cable. I've done this with my FiiO X1 ll.


----------



## cycleguy

Grinder said:


> Yes, 3.5mm (headphone output) to RCA cable.


Been looking at these DAP players and see that some have a 3.5mm balanced output can that be used as a input ? and how would I go about retaining my H/U for the radio side of things is it possible to do this with what I have ?


----------



## Grinder

cycleguy said:


> Been looking at these DAP players and see that some have a 3.5mm balanced output can that be used as a input ? and how would I go about retaining my H/U for the radio side of things is it possible to do this with what I have ?


Does your HU not have a 3.5mm aux input somewhere on the faceplate?


----------



## cycleguy

Grinder said:


> Does your HU not have a 3.5mm aux input somewhere on the faceplate?


No but the vehicle has a usb that I use a memory stick in to play through the H/U


----------



## Grinder

cycleguy said:


> No but the vehicle has a usb that I use a memory stick in to play through the H/U


I see. No Bluetooth either? Perhaps you could somehow connect HU to DSP-408 inputs 1 & 2, and DAP to inputs 3 & 4? Not sure how/if this would work though.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how you could run both.


----------



## cycleguy

Grinder said:


> I see. No Bluetooth either? Perhaps you could somehow connect HU to DSP-408 inputs 1 & 2, and DAP to inputs 3 & 4? Not sure how/if this would work though.
> 
> Otherwise, I'm not sure how you could run both.


The factoryH/U does have a BT audio selection but I'm not sure how reliable this would be ? its a 2017 Ford


----------



## Mack

cycleguy said:


> The factoryH/U does have a BT audio selection but I'm not sure how reliable this would be ? its a 2017 Ford


I've used mine a handful of times ('14 Focus). No problems I've noticed. Mostly to play Youtube audio.


----------



## wsherring

I ran into a problem with presets in the DSP after wiring up my new system. 

I set up crossovers with the PC, muted all the channels to prep before I installed the DSP in my truck, and saved it to both a PC file and a preset on the DSP ( named RamStart).

When I got wired up and ready to set amp gains, the DSP booted with no crossovers and a flat EQ. So I loaded the preset RamStart from the PC, but I got an error message saying "File transfer error" with the option to quit the program or reset the DSP. Then after resetting (this causes speaker pops) I was able to load the RamStart file, but no sound would play. I checked all combinations of input mixes/mutes and full output volumes but still no sound on any channel. Same thing with loading the preset saved on the DSP.

I again get the error message "File transfer error" (happens often) trying to load the preset and reset it, (so I select reset) I notice I get sound on all channels. I was able to set my amp gains for the front tweets and woofers with this default setting (no crossovers), but when reload the preset RamStart with the crossovers set, there is again no sound out in any channel. So then i decided to just start from scratch and re-enter all the crossover settings from the default flat EQ/cross screen, but now the link button (for speaker pairs) has disappeared from below all the channels.

Has anyone else had problems with no sound playing after loading a preset from either the PC or DSP? Or the link button disappearing

Thanks


----------



## SFAJeff_1

I may be overthinking things while waiting on these to get back in stock and arrive to me but here is my current thinking....

HU to inputs 3&4. Outputs 1&2 for the highs. 3&4 for mids. 5&6 to the sub. EQ and T/A everything to flat and call it a day. After that run a RCA from output 7&8 to input 1&2 and have the input 3&4 connected to output 7&8.

Now everything is flat and T/Ad and I can use input 1&2 to put a house curve/preset on everything. Any issues with this, or am I overcomplicating things since I have not been able to get my hands on it yet?


----------



## minbari

SFAJeff_1 said:


> I may be overthinking things while waiting on these to get back in stock and arrive to me but here is my current thinking....
> 
> HU to inputs 3&4. Outputs 1&2 for the highs. 3&4 for mids. 5&6 to the sub. EQ and T/A everything to flat and call it a day. After that run a RCA from output 7&8 to input 1&2 and have the input 3&4 connected to output 7&8.
> 
> Now everything is flat and T/Ad and I can use input 1&2 to put a house curve/preset on everything. Any issues with this, or am I overcomplicating things since I have not been able to get my hands on it yet?


Should work. You would get pre eq and post eq this way

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Truthunter

SFAJeff_1 said:


> I may be overthinking things while waiting on these to get back in stock and arrive to me but here is my current thinking....
> 
> HU to inputs 3&4. Outputs 1&2 for the highs. 3&4 for mids. 5&6 to the sub. EQ and T/A everything to flat and call it a day. After that run a RCA from output 7&8 to input 1&2 and have the input 3&4 connected to output 7&8.
> 
> Now everything is flat and T/Ad and I can use input 1&2 to put a house curve/preset on everything. Any issues with this, or am I overcomplicating things since I have not been able to get my hands on it yet?


The only thing that could be an issue is added noise - added AD/DA conversions / stacking noise floors.... Or it may not be an issue at all - maybe someone has tried this already with this dsp and can chime in.


----------



## wsherring

wsherring said:


> I ran into a problem with presets in the DSP after wiring up my new system.
> 
> I set up crossovers with the PC, muted all the channels to prep before I installed the DSP in my truck, and saved it to both a PC file and a preset on the DSP ( named RamStart).
> 
> When I got wired up and ready to set amp gains, the DSP booted with no crossovers and a flat EQ. So I loaded the preset RamStart from the PC, but I got an error message saying "File transfer error" with the option to quit the program or reset the DSP. Then after resetting (this causes speaker pops) I was able to load the RamStart file, but no sound would play. I checked all combinations of input mixes/mutes and full output volumes but still no sound on any channel. Same thing with loading the preset saved on the DSP.
> 
> I again get the error message "File transfer error" (happens often) trying to load the preset and reset it, (so I select reset) I notice I get sound on all channels. I was able to set my amp gains for the front tweets and woofers with this default setting (no crossovers), but when reload the preset RamStart with the crossovers set, there is again no sound out in any channel. So then i decided to just start from scratch and re-enter all the crossover settings from the default flat EQ/cross screen, but now the link button (for speaker pairs) has disappeared from below all the channels.
> 
> Has anyone else had problems with no sound playing after loading a preset from either the PC or DSP? Or the link button disappearing
> 
> Thanks


Well I went back the next day and started over from scratch, and the linked channel buttons were back, and I was able to save presets that work. 

Must have been one of the quirks of this DSP


----------



## minbari

wsherring said:


> Well I went back the next day and started over from scratch, and the linked channel buttons were back, and I was able to save presets that work.
> 
> Must have been one of the quirks of this DSP


Honestly never used the pc app. Only ever used the android app and it works quite well. Never had weirdness like that happen

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## dee_83

Hi, 

Hoping someone can assist as this DSP is driving me crazy, got it yesterday and installed it today, everything was working fine................not sure what I touched but I'm not getting sound now from four channels?


Current set up as follows 


INPUT
Alpine HU - 4V RCA's Fronts to Channel 1 & 2 Input of DSP


OUTPUT
Channel 1 - Left Tweeter - Playing 
Channel 2 - Right Tweeter - Playing 

Channel 3 - Left Mid high - Playing although slightly louder than the right 
Channel 4 - Right Mid high - Playing

Channel 5 - Left Mid Low - No Sound
Channel 6 - Right Mid Low - No Sound 

Channel 7 & 8 " Linked " - Sub No sound 

For the inputs, i have them set to channel 1 & 2 so not sure what i am doing wrong ?

Thanks in advance


----------



## rcg703

Are you mixer settings correct? Output channels 1, 3, and 5 should have input from channel 1. Output channels 2, 4, and 6 should be on input 2. Channels 7 and 8 should be linked and have both input 1 and 2 selected.


----------



## dee_83

rcg703 said:


> Are you mixer settings correct? Output channels 1, 3, and 5 should have input from channel 1. Output channels 2, 4, and 6 should be on input 2. Channels 7 and 8 should be linked and have both input 1 and 2 selected.


I originally had them as 1 & 2 across the board, however just changed to your suggestion and still nothing?

Does it make a difference if I am using Y splitters on my amps, I have a 4 channel with 4 mids connected.


----------



## minbari

Check your input mixer

Check the output levels. Make sure you dont have them muted

Check your xover settings

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## dee_83

minbari said:


> Check your input mixer
> 
> Check the output levels. Make sure you dont have them muted
> 
> Check your xover settings
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk



Output levels are fine, nothing muted, and xover settings are fine. :worried:

I think a return is on the cards, !!


----------



## cycleguy

You say your not sure what you touched was you making adjustments at the time it stopped playing in some channels ? If so what screen was you in on the app?


----------



## dee_83

cycleguy said:


> You say your not sure what you touched was you making adjustments at the time it stopped playing in some channels ? If so what screen was you in on the app?


I was setting the output names on the output screen of the app, it's really bugging me out now !!


----------



## cycleguy

dee_83 said:


> I was setting the output names on the output screen of the app, it's really bugging me out now !!


I would just make sure you have assigned the channels correctly need to be as RCG 703 has posted in post 655 above


----------



## JVD240

Share screen shots of your settings.


----------



## dee_83

JVD240 said:


> Share screen shots of your settings.



Thanks I'll post some in the AM, gonna call it a night now, been sitting in that car for the 2 hours now and it's cold !!


----------



## karmajack

What gauge are the wires on the 12v harness? I'm trying to plan ahead and get things mapped out on what all I need. I'm still a couple months away from getting this, but planning is fun.


----------



## dee_83

So i tested all the outputs and i believe i have 4 duff channels, 5,6,7 & 8, are not out putting any signal what so ever. 


as requested here are pictures of my settings.




















Hopefully, I'm just being an idiot !!


----------



## dee_83

karmajack said:


> What gauge are the wires on the 12v harness? I'm trying to plan ahead and get things mapped out on what all I need. I'm still a couple months away from getting this, but planning is fun.


It's very thin, either 12 or 14,


----------



## Truthunter

karmajack said:


> What gauge are the wires on the 12v harness? I'm trying to plan ahead and get things mapped out on what all I need. I'm still a couple months away from getting this, but planning is fun.





dee_83 said:


> It's very thin, either 12 or 14,


Huh, I'm thinking they are more like 18-20awg... maybe 16awg at the most.


----------



## minbari

Truthunter said:


> Huh, I'm thinking they are more like 18-20awg... maybe 16awg at the most.


That is what I was thinking too. Power are about 18, speaker are about 20-24

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## karmajack

I was assuming 16-18, but trying to narrow it down.


----------



## dee_83

rcg703 said:


> Are you mixer settings correct? Output channels 1, 3, and 5 should have input from channel 1. Output channels 2, 4, and 6 should be on input 2. Channels 7 and 8 should be linked and have both input 1 and 2 selected.


What is the effect of using source 1 & 2 together on the mixer, example being 

Input - CH1 & CH2 - Output CH1 & CH2 

I'm testing it out with my home speakers, with the above inputs and I am still able to control time delay etc ?, plus it's sounding fuller.


----------



## minbari

dee_83 said:


> What is the effect of using source 1 & 2 together on the mixer, example being
> 
> Input - CH1 & CH2 - Output CH1 & CH2
> 
> I'm testing it out with my home speakers, with the above inputs and I am still able to control time delay etc ?, plus it's sounding fuller.


It will sum the inputs. You will have no stereo this way, but some people run thier subs this way

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## cycleguy

Have you tried using inputs 3+4 and the reassign the outputs see if that works


----------



## Mitchc1113

I'm def green when it comes to DSPs, this Dayton is my 1st. So a few weeks ago I switched from an Audiocontrol LC2I for my LOC which I sent 2 sets of RCAs to my Dayton... to a PAC Ap4-gm61, again sending 1 set of 4 channel RCAs to the Dayton inputs. I also changed out my sub/ sub amp setup. Went from a Sundown SD3 12" and a JBL GTR1001 to a Soundqubed HDS3.1 12" and a SQ S1-1250.

My question is when I loaded up my previous settings and played them I had no output from my subwoofer... my amp was on, all wiring correct, couldnt figure it out. So after a day of frustration I just began messing with my DSP settings.

My basic settings on my DSP are:

Input 1: Front Left
Input 2: Front Right
Input 3: Sub
Input 4: Sub

I have just a basic tune setup right now as I'm running Coaxials in my front doors until I have enough free time to install my SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35 6.5s and my TangBand tweeters. 

So for my mixer settings I have

Output 1: Front L coaxial to Input 1 set at 85
Output 2: Front R coaxial to input 2 set at 85 
Output 7&8: Sub linked to Inputs 3 & 4 both set at 100

All inputs not used on a specific output are set to 0. So for output 1 Inputs 2-4 are at 0.

Ok so like I said those are my original settings with my previous setup, no problems, sounded pretty good, but when I loaded them after switching to the PAC Ap4-gm61 and switching my sub and sub amp no output from sub, had output from my coaxials (which sounded amazing now that I'm using the PAC amp pro BTW).

Well I ended up messing with the mixer settings with my sub outputs- 7 & 8 and I raised inputs 1 & 2 up to 100 along with 3 & 4 which were already at 100... when I did this I got output from my sub... a lot of output!! Raising mixer inputs 1&2 from 0 gave me output from my sub.

So after playin around with those settings for a bit, ended up having inputs 3&4 stay at 100 for outputs 7&8 and set inputs 1&2 around 75 I believe. Well I ended up playing with my coaxial outputs. When I raised all 4 input mixers on the coaxial outputs (1 & 2) they both got significantly louder as well... So now I have it setup to where it sounds really good, but I'm lost and to why...

I thought with the mixer you basically assigned only 1 input for each output ie Output 1 which is my left front speaker to input 1, set the mixer level and leave the other 3 inputs at 0 and do the same down the line, except with outputs 7&8 since they're my subwoofer and linked that theyd have inputs 3&4 raised, but inputs 1&2 at 0... 

Totally confused now to how the mixers work... Can anyone explain this or was I doing it wrong from the get go, because with the original setup I had it setup the way I thought was correct and it sounded good ... but it sounds very good now and the the mixer settings are totally different...??


----------



## Mitchc1113

Truthunter said:


> karmajack said:
> 
> 
> 
> What gauge are the wires on the 12v harness? I'm trying to plan ahead and get things mapped out on what all I need. I'm still a couple months away from getting this, but planning is fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dee_83 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's very thin, either 12 or 14,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Huh, I'm thinking they are more like 18-20awg... maybe 16awg at the most.
Click to expand...

Yea they def aren't 12-14, I dont think they're even 16awg... I'm almost certain they're 18-20awg.... you could use smaller 16awg to wire them, but if you use decent wire, knukonceptz, skyhigh, go, etc Id use 20awg, my 16 awg skyhigh is WAYYY thicker than the DSP wire...If your dsp is located upfront and you need to carry signal to the back I'd use 9 wire (aka speedwire) or if it's close to what you're wiring into I'd just use your regular run of the mill 18awg.... 

if you're into detailed installs (if you're planning your DSP wire runs months ahead of time I'm guessing you are) like I said either get some 9 wire, EFX makes a 9 wire with a clear jacket that looks really good. Or if you dont need 9 wire Sky High has some good deals on wire right now, 16, 18 and I think they may have 20awg too, but I just got a 50ft spool 16awg OFC for like $15 and the CCA is like $10, so 18-20awg might even be cheaper, at least the same and they have a nice selection of colors. I was very impressed with the size of their 16awg, looks more like other ppls 12-14awg. 

www.skyhighcaraudio.com and www.droppinhz.com I want to say droppinhz is where I ended up getting mine, both sites had good prices but I think droppinhz was doing a sale....


----------



## karmajack

Mitchc1113 said:


> Yea they def aren't 12-14, I dont think they're even 16awg... I'm almost certain they're 18-20awg.... you could use smaller 16awg to wire them, but if you use decent wire, knukonceptz, skyhigh, go, etc Id use 20awg, my 16 awg skyhigh is WAYYY thicker than the DSP wire...If your dsp is located upfront and you need to carry signal to the back I'd use 9 wire (aka speedwire) or if it's close to what you're wiring into I'd just use your regular run of the mill 18awg....
> 
> if you're into detailed installs (if you're planning your DSP wire runs months ahead of time I'm guessing you are) like I said either get some 9 wire, EFX makes a 9 wire with a clear jacket that looks really good. Or if you dont need 9 wire Sky High has some good deals on wire right now, 16, 18 and I think they may have 20awg too, but I just got a 50ft spool 16awg OFC for like $15 and the CCA is like $10, so 18-20awg might even be cheaper, at least the same and they have a nice selection of colors. I was very impressed with the size of their 16awg, looks more like other ppls 12-14awg.
> 
> Sky High Car Audio and www.droppinhz.com I want to say droppinhz is where I ended up getting mine, both sites had good prices but I think droppinhz was doing a sale....


Well I currently have a 4 channel hooked up to front components, and rear co's. Plus a sub/amp. I have a 6 channel amp I plan on swapping in to go full active with optional rear fill play when I add the DSP. So I need to run another set of speaker wires and get the tweeters on their own channel. I planned on using 16awg Karma SS wire as that's what's already in there. Then it's just a matter of getting some short RCA's to run from the DSP to the 8 channels of amplification. 

I'm mainly asking about the Dayton's awg for the power and ground lines. I'd prefer to match the gauge to those. Hopefully daisy chaining the remote from the DSP to 2 amps will be okay.


----------



## Truthunter

karmajack said:


> Hopefully daisy chaining the remote from the DSP to 2 amps will be okay.


No issue there IME.


----------



## Mitchc1113

Yea you'll be fine running 2 amps, I had 3 daisy chained together before I got a relay... and actually just got this new relay box in the mail tonight

And when I said about running 18-20awg I was talking about the power, ground, remote, accessory wires... I used RCAs to get my signal to my DSP so none of the DSP speaker wires on mine are in use, I just have them zipped tied off... for speaker wire I use 14awg OFC Skyhigh wire from my speakers to amp

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Mitchc1113

This is my new relay box to turn my 3 amps on, plus my LEDs and other accessories... Its from Sparked Inmovations, they make awesome products, look them up on FB or shop.sparkedinnovations.com
















Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## karmajack

Thanks guys. I'll get some 18 awg black, red, and blue ofc. Won't need much. Just a few feet of each. Probably get a new inline fuse for the DSP to be closer to the distribution block too. 

As I said, this wont be done right away. Likely in spring. I still have some other planning to do, and supplies to get. I need to make a different amp rack and figure a way to secure it to the car. Need to lay down some more cdl around that area and wheel well. And other various details to clean up the install a bit. Might as well touch it all up when I do the upgrade. It's all going to be hidden, but I still want it to all to be safe, secure, and tidy. Moreso than it currently is.


----------



## Mitchc1113

The DSP already has an inline fuse attached to the 12v power BTW....

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## SpringHalo

*Wrong LR24 crossover*

Has anyone noticed or addressed the issue that the 24dB/Octave Linkwitz-Riley crossover doesn't cross at -6dB, but instead crosses at -12dB? I dealt with a huge dip at my crossover point for a few hours before noticing this. Someone on the PE reviews page said the same thing, but I haven't seen anything since.

My fix was to move the crossover points 2/3 octave away from the desired point. For example, a 1kHz desired crossover was 630Hz high-pass and 1600Hz low-pass at 24dB/Oct LR. This makes the 24dB filter cross properly at -6dB on the screen, and fixed my tuning issue.

Attached I have pictures of the ideal 24dB crossover, which crosses at -6dB, and the default 1kHz crossover crossing at -12dB, then my corrected 1kHz crossover done by setting the frequency to 630Hz.


----------



## minbari

*Re: Wrong LR24 crossover*



SpringHalo said:


> Has anyone noticed or addressed the issue that the 24dB/Octave Linkwitz-Riley crossover doesn't cross at -6dB, but instead crosses at -12dB? I dealt with a huge dip at my crossover point for a few hours before noticing this. Someone on the PE reviews page said the same thing, but I haven't seen anything since.
> 
> My fix was to move the crossover points 2/3 octave away from the desired point. For example, a 1kHz desired crossover was 630Hz high-pass and 1600Hz low-pass at 24dB/Oct LR. This makes the 24dB filter cross properly at -6dB on the screen, and fixed my tuning issue.
> 
> Attached I have pictures of the ideal 24dB crossover, which crosses at -6dB, and the default 1kHz crossover crossing at -12dB, then my corrected 1kHz crossover done by setting the frequency to 630Hz.


Only way this could be happening is if the slope is wrong. Does it go down 24db for each octave other than the crossover region?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## SpringHalo

*Re: Wrong LR24 crossover*



minbari said:


> Only way this could be happening is if the slope is wrong. Does it go down 24db for each octave other than the crossover region?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I don't have the equipment to analyze that, but from the negative review on the DSP-408 on parts-express (I can't post links yet), the slope seems twice as steep as the 12dB one, just at the wrong point. This leads me to believe it's an incorrect programming implementation, not just a visual bug.

Oddly enough, an older review (from July, second image) shows the 24dB LR filter working fine, so this could be a firmware bug from a recent revision (2 months ago to now?)

EDIT: Additional sleuthing led me to an older version (dated 8/21/18) of DSP-408.exe that doesn't have this issue, but the most recent version (dated 10/22/18) does have the issue. I've contacted PE support and await a response.


----------



## minbari

Interesting. I will have to look at how mine behaves because I still have the old sw and a first run dsp

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RRizz

Add that to the list of quirks this unit has....Mine has a few strange habits as well.


----------



## ricren

*Re: Wrong LR24 crossover*



SpringHalo said:


> Has anyone noticed or addressed the issue that the 24dB/Octave Linkwitz-Riley crossover doesn't cross at -6dB, but instead crosses at -12dB?


Uhh, this is serious stuff. Needs to be corrected asap. I'll too write to PE to see if we can speed things up. Good catch!


----------



## minbari

*Re: Wrong LR24 crossover*



ricren said:


> Uhh, this is serious stuff. Needs to be corrected asap. I'll too write to PE to see if we can speed things up. Good catch!


This is, ofcourse, assuming the dsp is actually doing it this way and its not just a bug in the SW visualisation

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

Some of you thought I was nuts when I reported that the time alignment via the measurement input method was off!

I don't think my crossover is off and I have one of the very first 408's that was released. I verified my tune with a mini DSP microphone and REW and didn't notice anything off with the crossover points. In fact it sounds fantastic in my Sienna.


----------



## minbari

V8toilet said:


> Some of you thought I was nuts when I reported that the time alignment via the measurement input method was off!
> 
> I don't think my crossover is off and I have one of the very first 408's that was released. I verified my tune with a mini DSP microphone and REW and didn't notice anything off with the crossover points. In fact it sounds fantastic in my Sienna.


I redidmy T/A with your suggestion. It does sound better using the ms setting instead

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

minbari said:


> I redidmy T/A with your suggestion. It does sound better using the ms setting instead
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Awesome, glad I could help. 

How do you like those 8” Silver Flutes? I have the 6.5 versions but just haven’t got around to trying them because the stock 6x8 speakers sound good when bandpassed 80-2500 L-R. 

Ahh, better stay on topic!


----------



## minbari

V8toilet said:


> Awesome, glad I could help.
> 
> How do you like those 8” Silver Flutes? I have the 6.5 versions but just haven’t got around to trying them because the stock 6x8 speakers sound good when bandpassed 80-2500 L-R.
> 
> Ahh, better stay on topic!


As long as you keep them under 2500 hz they sound nice. Midbass hits with allot of authority. I have them crossed down to 65hz. On the top end I have em crossed at 2khz where the tweeters take over

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## 04quadcab

Mine just arrived in the mail! I am a little confused by the technical issue expressed in this thread. The time alignment feature does not work correctly? That's not fun. 


The remote output wire is 500mV. Is this enough to turn on three amplifiers?


----------



## minbari

04quadcab said:


> Mine just arrived in the mail! I am a little confused by the technical issue expressed in this thread. The time alignment feature does not work correctly? That's not fun.
> 
> 
> The remote output wire is 500mV. Is this enough to turn on three amplifiers?


Just use the ms setting. Many websites will convert the distance to time.

No its 12v, 500mA. It will turn on 3 amplifiers no problem

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter

I think the time alignment works just fine by entering distance - some just misunderstand it's use: It's not the measured distance that needs to be entered; it is the difference in the distance from the *FURTHEST* driver that needs to be entered... So a little math has to be done.

The time delay in my Alpine headunit works the same way when using distance.

Some other DSPs (Helix, MS8) do the math for you so just the measured distance is entered. I think that is why some are confused.


----------



## minbari

Then the instructions need to specify. Cause I did the measure and set method and it didn't work as well as using the ms setting. Used the farthest speaker as the reference.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## 04quadcab

minbari said:


> Just use the ms setting. Many websites will convert the distance to time.
> 
> No its 12v, 500mA.


That was a typo on my end, thanks for pointing that out.

Just so I am clear, don't use "distance" to set up the time alignment. Convert it myself and enter the delay in MS.

Can I run this without ever hooking it up to my computer? Can I just set it up with the app over bluetooth?


----------



## minbari

04quadcab said:


> That was a typo on my end, thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> Just so I am clear, don't use "distance" to set up the time alignment. Convert it myself and enter the delay in MS.
> 
> Can I run this without ever hooking it up to my computer? Can I just set it up with the app over bluetooth?


That is what I would do. The distance setting Seems to have some mixed results

Yes you can. I have never used the PC program

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

04quadcab said:


> That was a typo on my end, thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> Just so I am clear, don't use "distance" to set up the time alignment. Convert it myself and enter the delay in MS.
> 
> Can I run this without ever hooking it up to my computer? Can I just set it up with the app over bluetooth?


That is correct and yes you can use the app. I put up a link to a website that has a calculator that will do this for you if you search within this thread.


----------



## karmajack

V8toilet, 
I'm aware you have good knowledge and experience of both the Dayton and the TWK 88. I've narrowed it down to those two myself for my first DSP. Leaning towards the Dayton...cus money. I have the Dayton in my cart right now. Any strong reason why I might reconsider the TWK over the Dayton at all? I'll either get the 408 Friday, or hold off and wait for the TWK.


----------



## 04quadcab

karmajack said:


> V8toilet,
> I'm aware you have good knowledge and experience of both the Dayton and the TWK 88. I've narrowed it down to those two myself for my first DSP. Leaning towards the Dayton...cus money. I have the Dayton in my cart right now. Any strong reason why I might reconsider the TWK over the Dayton at all? I'll either get the 408 Friday, or hold off and wait for the TWK.


The Dayton is $10 off right now! Got to love those black Friday sales and the coupon codes.


----------



## karmajack

I know. Actually $20 off with the discount AND the code. That's why I'm making this last plea to help make up my mind. 

Screw it. I'm getting it.


----------



## 04quadcab

I ordered mine a few weeks ago. I should have waited for the black Friday sale. Live and learn.


karmajack said:


> I know. Actually $20 off with the discount AND the code. That's why I'm making this last plea to help make up my mind.
> 
> Screw it. I'm getting it.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## JCsAudio

karmajack said:


> V8toilet,
> I'm aware you have good knowledge and experience of both the Dayton and the TWK 88. I've narrowed it down to those two myself for my first DSP. Leaning towards the Dayton...cus money. I have the Dayton in my cart right now. Any strong reason why I might reconsider the TWK over the Dayton at all? I'll either get the 408 Friday, or hold off and wait for the TWK.


I say it depends. You can get the same sonic results with both in either case with a 2-way active setup and subwoofer. The basic difference in hardware (which I'm sure you looked up) is the Twk has 4 more inputs, so you have more options if you are using a factory HU, and want to keep fading capabilities intact when using front active, rear fill from DSP, and subwoofer. If you are very new to a DSP, than the JL software is better because it is (this is subjective) to me easier to learn and use, and more powerful because the data points are finer in their adjustment and there are more adjustments too. The JL remote that comes with the DSP is also better. On my Dayton, I found the remote useless because it introduced an annoying ground loop noise or buzzing whenever I plugged it in so I don't use it. Most decent mono amplifiers come with a remote, so for me it isn’t a deal breaker, and to be honest, I don’t use a remote anyway, which is my personal preference. 

When switching presets to compare tunes, I found that the JL switched faster between presets. This is only something to consider when you are making very small adjustments, like comparing a 2300 Hz crossover point to a 2500 Hz crossover point. The faster it switches between those presets, the easier it is to tell the difference. I find the Dayton to be annoying only because I’m spoiled by the JL Twk and when switching presets, the Dayton sometimes makes some weird sounds through the speakers. 

If you read through this thread, you will see that the Dayton seems to have a few quirks. With mine, inputting the distance directly into the DSP didn’t work right and I guess you have to do some math to get this right according to a recent post above me. Whether this is correct or not I didn’t verify and honestly, it seems counter intuitive to me. I just used an online calculator (tracerite) and input those ms parameters directly into the DSP, and it worked. With the JL Twk, I just measured the distance to each speaker cone center, added the distance to the voice coil, and input these directly into the DSP, and it was 98% done, which is good enough for my daily vehicles. 

So I’ve been running the Dayton now since July and have had zero problems with it. The temperatures here are in the single digits now and its doing fine. If you are really on a budget, but want the vast improvement a DSP has to offer, don’t mind the possible remote buzzing issue, willing to deal with a few possible software quirks, and are willing to spend more time tuning with the software, than the Dayton is a fine DSP. I did swap the Dayton back to back with the JL and sonically they are the same with a 2 way active front stage and subwoofer and rear fill running off the HU and in the end that should be near the top of importance. The noise floor without the Dayton remote hooked up is excellent. 

The Twk is better if you want that little bit extra tuning capability and finer adjustments, want a digital input for factory HU integration with a JL FIX 82 (FIX 86 will work with Dayton). The Twk is better if you are all novice to DSP’s and tuning with them. It can get you up and running in less than an hour, especially if you are not running an active front stage at first, and use a passive setup. The JL Twk has a built in fail safe muting feature to keep you from blowing a set of speakers. I love my JL twk’s and FIX processors and would buy them again.

The Dayton is sonically excellent once you figure out some of its quirks and shortcomings and sounds every bit as good as the JL twk to me. If you are on a budget, and DO NOT have a good microphone for tuning, than it would make more sense to me to get the Dayton DSP and a Mini DSP microphone to use with REW. This combination compared to the JL without a tuning microphone and REW, is more powerful, and will net you a better SQ setup, albeit with some long and frustrating hours spent tuning and learning, but will in the end net you an awesome sounding car. With the help of the many very experience DiyMobileAudio members here, I think you will get through it (assuming a lot of things I do not know about you so not to insult you or your abilities) and be better off. I myself am no expert, and I'm still learning a lot. With the Dayton being so inexpensive, you could always upgrade later on, and I’m sure by that time there will be even more capable DSP’s available on the market as time goes by and their popularity catches on.


Final note, you can download the JL software for free and play around with it and I believe you can do that same with the Dayton. Do this and see how you feel about each system so you are better informed because it’s really just a matter of personal preference.

Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## karmajack

Thanks V8. I really appreciate this response. And it's somewhat what I was hoping to hear.

In may application for it's use, it will be...Pioneer Nex HU source, to DSP, to 8 amplified channels. Tweets and 6.75's up front. Rear fill to toy with, and a sub. Sub amp has knob. I have a laptop + REW currently, and likely will acquire the AF test gear mic when I tackle this project. I've been doing homework on tuning, and will continue to do so. 

The roughly $300 difference between the two seems quite a bit when you boil down bottom line differences. I actually have toyed with the software of both DSP's. I agree the JL's seems "simpler", but I don't see a struggle with the Dayton's. Similar stuff, just different layouts. I pulled the trigger on the Dayton + the BT dongle, and some tweeter capacitors while I was at it. I'll be cautious of the timing input settings, and other standout hiccups to watch for. 

The active conversion won't happen til spring. Need good weather to do so. I've been monitoring this thread for a few months now, and will continue to. As well as provide input and personal feedback as I acquaint myself with this device and the process.

Again, that's for the quality response.


----------



## JCsAudio

karmajack said:


> Thanks V8. I really appreciate this response. And it's somewhat what I was hoping to hear.
> 
> In may application for it's use, it will be...Pioneer Nex HU source, to DSP, to 8 amplified channels. Tweets and 6.75's up front. Rear fill to toy with, and a sub. Sub amp has knob. I have a laptop + REW currently, and likely will acquire the AF test gear mic when I tackle this project. I've been doing homework on tuning, and will continue to do so.
> 
> The roughly $300 difference between the two seems quite a bit when you boil down bottom line differences. I actually have toyed with the software of both DSP's. I agree the JL's seems "simpler", but I don't see a struggle with the Dayton's. Similar stuff, just different layouts. I pulled the trigger on the Dayton + the BT dongle, and some tweeter capacitors while I was at it. I'll be cautious of the timing input settings, and other standout hiccups to watch for.
> 
> The active conversion won't happen til spring. Need good weather to do so. I've been monitoring this thread for a few months now, and will continue to. As well as provide input and personal feedback as I acquaint myself with this device and the process.
> 
> Again, that's for the quality response.


Awesome! I'm glade to help. With the Dayton you can start playing with it from the comfort of your own home because it comes with its own power supply. All you need is an amplifier and a set of bookshelf speakers to try it out. You could also plug it in between your HU and amplifier with the passive crossovers and use two channels for now for the EQ ability and convert to active in the spring. That should be as easy as programming in the house and plug and play in the car. 

You may view this as good or bad but I can guarantee you that this is just the beginning of many more audio upgrades to come.  Its an addition I cannot shake! 

Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## karmajack

V8toilet said:


> ...You could also plug it in between your HU and amplifier with the passive crossovers and use two channels for now for the EQ ability and convert to active in the spring. That should be as easy as programming in the house and plug and play in the car.
> 
> You may view this as good or bad but I can guarantee you that this is just the beginning of many more audio upgrades to come.  Its an addition I cannot shake!
> 
> Good luck and keep us posted.


I'll surely be tempted to throw it in sooner than later. However, I want to do it right, and not rushed and sloppy. I have to rearrange my current equipment layout to make room. That requires fabricating a new amp rack. Believe me when I say, I currently have zero room until I do this. I want to take my time on the install. To be neat, tidy, and ...Right. 

I realize the rabbit hole probably did just get deeper. I mean, it's the rabbit hole that brought me to this point already. I figure this step will hold me over longer until the next upgrade. I'll have plenty to tinker with this to occupy me a bit. 
For the most part, the rest of the system where I want it. The DSP was the next logical, and appropriate step. Of course that's always subject to change. I'm happy enough with the HU. The speakers are middle of the road, but satisfying JL C2's. On a XD600/6. Sub is a ported 10w3 on a Slash 600/1. Good amount of sound treatment done. Install has been good and touched up on. Not much to do other than graduate to better front speakers eventually. At least on this vehicle. I know it's nothing fancy. Not a comp car at all. I'm happy with a somewhat mid level DD system. Though I'm sure the bug will bite again sooner or later some how, some way.


----------



## JCsAudio

With an active setup, and assuming 6.5" mid woofers, you will want to avoid the beaming of the woofer and cross over to the tweeters in the 2000-2500 Hz range. This also helps to bring up the sound stage. Those C2 tweeters are only 3/4" silk dome tweeters with a 12 db HP crossover and 6 db LP crossovers on those woofers from the passive sets, so I doubt they can cross over that low. I bet those JL mid woofers are actually pretty decent and that you would gain a significant upgrade in SQ by changing out those tweeters to a 1" tweeter that can cross over to those mid woofers in that range. Parts Express and Madisound sell lots of tweeters that range from $20 each and up that would make for a nice and inexpensive upgrade.

One of my favorites is the SB Acoustics SB29RDCN, but they are large so that may limit the placement options for you depending on vehicle. Any of the SB Acoustics tweeters I think would sound great. Tang Bang, Seas, Morel, Scan Speak, and Peerless are some of the brands where you can find good tweeters for much less than the automotive equivalents with SQ being equal. I've tried a ton of them and some full range 2" and 3" for tweeter-less applications as well.


----------



## karmajack

Good stuff. Your absolutely right, and I'm right with you. If anything, I was thinking the C2 tweeters might not pan out too well. I was going to wait and see first. I haven't narrowed down my options yet on those, but have been eyeballing some PE stuff that would fit my application. Tang Bang and Peerless were ones I briefly looked at. I'll cross that bridge when I get there I'm sure.

The specs for the tweets report 4 kHz - 22 KHz ± 3 dB. I'm sure that 4k is not a realistic xo point. Not that I'd attempt that low anyway. Either way.I wanted to try them before further considering an alternative.


----------



## karmajack

The DSP arrived. I've been messing with it a bit. Had some crashes on the app and the PC. Kinda think the DSP doesn't like being connected to both the PC and bluetooth at the same time. Got passed that, and pre dialed in about 80% of what I can for now.

I'm noticing that LW-24db bug on mine. I do have to set things further off do get the slope to cross where it should. Guess we just wait for a fix on that.

UI is easy enough to wrap your head around. On both mediums. Still going to be a while before I hook it up and all. I'm anxious. 

FWIW, If anyone else was curious as to what the gauge of the wires are...They're 20 awg.


----------



## Aaron Clinton

*I may have missed it buried in the topic, but those who are using the DSP-408 for streaming your music from your phone for example, are their any issues with running Spotify or Pandora through it for example?*


----------



## minbari

Aaron Clinton said:


> *I may have missed it buried in the topic, but those who are using the DSP-408 for streaming your music from your phone for example, are their any issues with running Spotify or Pandora through it for example?*


Have done it with no issues

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## 2LOUD2OLD

Hi all, got my dsp-408 installed and have Bluetooth dongle but can't find the DSP via Bluetooth. Is there a step in need to do before being able to connect other than just plug in the dongle?


----------



## minbari

2LOUD2OLD said:


> Hi all, got my dsp-408 installed and have Bluetooth dongle but can't find the DSP via Bluetooth. Is there a step in need to do before being able to connect other than just plug in the dongle?


Nope. As long as the dsp is powered up it should be there.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## 2LOUD2OLD

Looks like it is working now.
Hopefully won't happen again


----------



## RRizz

2LOUD2OLD said:


> Looks like it is working now.
> Hopefully won't happen again


:laugh: heres hoping you're a patient man....


----------



## Truthunter

Clone?

Ground-Zero GZDSP 4-8X
https://www.ceoutlook.com/2018/12/06/ground-zero-intros-new-dsp/


----------



## GreatLaBroski

Truthunter said:


> Clone?
> 
> Ground-Zero GZDSP 4-8X
> https://www.ceoutlook.com/2018/12/06/ground-zero-intros-new-dsp/


Looks exactly like one. LMAO $470 retail.


----------



## minbari

GreatLaBroski said:


> Looks exactly like one. LMAO $470 retail.


Wow. I can see Dayton licensing it to others if they want (wouldn't be the first manufacturer to do so) but 3x the price? Lol

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## 2LOUD2OLD

GreatLaBroski said:


> Looks exactly like one. LMAO $470 retail.


Even their android app is exactly the same just a different colour

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## rton20s

Truthunter said:


> Clone?
> 
> Ground-Zero GZDSP 4-8X
> https://www.ceoutlook.com/2018/12/06/ground-zero-intros-new-dsp/


Not a chance.


----------



## rton20s

The software is nearly identical as well, save for the Dayton having a better mixer.


----------



## Truthunter

Wow, they even removed the 12vdc socket & likely the 120vac>12vdc wall wart and still want more than 3x for it.


----------



## JCsAudio

What a scam!


----------



## RRizz

But the ground zero says High Quality on it.. $300 right there.


----------



## rton20s

V8toilet said:


> What a scam!


It isn't a scam. It is what has been happening in audio for decades. It is the reason that this site even exists. 

There is nothing wrong with what Ground Zero is doing. And really, it seems par for the course with that brand. I wouldn't expect otherwise. At this point, it is more humorous to me than anything.

As far as the consumer is concerned... caveat emptor.


----------



## jocanon

I have a 9th generation (2013) Honda Accord EXL with the premium sound package which means the factory amplifier is separate from the factory HU. So I am going to be taking the signal from the back of the HU before it goes into the factory amp.

I am very interested in the Dayton DSP-408. The only problem is, the pre-amp signal from the back of the HU is a differential balanced signal. I read in the first part of this thread that the Dayton does not accept differential balanced inputs. Are there any inexpensive solutions to this problem, like something the converts differential balanced to unbalanced for about $20-$30 or less?


----------



## minbari

jocanon said:


> I have a 9th generation (2013) Honda Accord EXL with the premium sound package which means the factory amplifier is separate from the factory HU. So I am going to be taking the signal from the back of the HU before it goes into the factory amp.
> 
> I am very interested in the Dayton DSP-408. The only problem is, the pre-amp signal from the back of the HU is a differential balanced signal. I read in the first part of this thread that the Dayton does not accept differential balanced inputs. Are there any inexpensive solutions to this problem, like something the converts differential balanced to unbalanced for about $20-$30 or less?


If they have a 3 wire differential, its simple. Use the signal ground and 1 signal. Either inverted or non-inverted, doesn't matter which, just make sure it's the same for left and right

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## jocanon

minbari said:


> If they have a 3 wire differential, its simple. Use the signal ground and 1 signal. Either inverted or non-inverted, doesn't matter which, just make sure it's the same for left and right
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


As far as I know it's not 3 wire, just 2, but I don't know for sure. All I know for sure is that a bunch of people I have read online say if you tap into the factory HU pre-amp signal you must feed it into an amp or dsp that accepts differential balanced signals or it will sound bad.

Is there anyone familiar with the Honda Accord gen 9 factory HU and tapping into the pre-amp signal that could answer whether it is 3 wire and if just taking 1 signal and ground would work or not?


----------



## JCsAudio

You bring up a good point rton20 and thank god for places like this site that keep us informed.

We can change this to scam artist then 

ca·ve·at emp·tor
/ˌkavēˌät ˈem(p)ˌtôr/Submit
noun
the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made.


----------



## minbari

jocanon said:


> As far as I know it's not 3 wire, just 2, but I don't know for sure. All I know for sure is that a bunch of people I have read online say if you tap into the factory HU pre-amp signal you must feed it into an amp or dsp that accepts differential balanced signals or it will sound bad.
> 
> Is there anyone familiar with the Honda Accord gen 9 factory HU and tapping into the pre-amp signal that could answer whether it is 3 wire and if just taking 1 signal and ground would work or not?


It's not a matter of sounding bad. You will ground one signal wire from the hu and damage it.
If it is 3 wire it really is that simple, if it is 2 wire then you just have to find a ground and then pick one signal. There is nothing that unique about differential signals. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## jocanon

minbari said:


> It's not a matter of sounding bad. You will ground one signal wire from the hu and damage it.
> If it is 3 wire it really is that simple, if it is 2 wire then you just have to find a ground and then pick one signal. There is nothing that unique about differential signals.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Is it possible doing this will result in noise in the signal, or do you think it would be fine?


----------



## minbari

jocanon said:


> Is it possible doing this will result in noise in the signal, or do you think it would be fine?


It won't have any more noise than any other non-diff signal. (IE: 90% of all RCA signals) differential has some noise rejecting properties built in because of how it works, but you should be fine

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Truthunter

jocanon said:


> Is there anyone familiar with the Honda Accord gen 9 factory HU and tapping into the pre-amp signal that could answer whether it is 3 wire and if just taking 1 signal and ground would work or not?


Search around in the build log section... I pretty sure there are several 9th gen Accords in there - Just ask the question, I'm sure you will get some friendly help.

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/

or

Search "Accord" in titles >>> https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/search.php?searchid=30418165


----------



## Aaron Clinton

rton20s said:


> It isn't a scam. It is what has been happening in audio for decades. It is the reason that this site even exists.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with what Ground Zero is doing. And really, it seems par for the course with that brand. I wouldn't expect otherwise. At this point, it is more humorous to me than anything.
> 
> As far as the consumer is concerned... caveat emptor.


*Latin to define life, semper amabo illum.*


----------



## JCsAudio

Translation for “semper amabo illum”: I will always love him


----------



## Aaron Clinton

V8toilet said:


> Translation for “semper amabo illum”: I will always love him


:laugh:


----------



## RekeHavoc

I really want to try out this DSP, but I've never done an active setup before. Could I leave my existing passive xovers in place on my tweeters to protect them and wire my midrange drivers directly to my amp?


----------



## minbari

RekeHavoc said:


> I really want to try out this DSP, but I've never done an active setup before. Could I leave my existing passive xovers in place on my tweeters to protect them and wire my midrange drivers directly to my amp?


yoy can, but it kinda defeats the purpose.
You could still utilise the eq and t/a functions

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter

RekeHavoc said:


> I really want to try out this DSP, but I've never done an active setup before. Could I leave my existing passive xovers in place on my tweeters to protect them and wire my midrange drivers directly to my amp?


I used a HP xover in the tweeter amp as secondary protection initially... but I've since removed it and take my chances now.

Most use capacitors for tweeter protection though: To Cap or Not to Cap? Tweeters in Systems with Active Crossovers – Tech Tips – Forums


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## Holmz

RekeHavoc said:


> I really want to try out this DSP, but I've never done an active setup before. Could I leave my existing passive xovers in place on my tweeters to protect them and wire my midrange drivers directly to my amp?


If the goal is to biamp then that will work fine.
For instance one could send a signal to the tweeters that is crossed over a bit lower, and then the passive will be doing the work, or a less steep cross over on the DSP.

The main concern would be phase and where they match up with the midbass, but one should be able to get it working with some fiddling around.

And removing the passive cross over is also an option, but it one was to put in a capacitor then leaving the passive cross over in place makes some sense.


----------



## RekeHavoc

Thanks guys for your responses. It has been incredibly helpful.

I have been reading the following thread: https://www.audiofrog.com/community/tech-tips/time-alignment-part-5-putting-it-all-together/

Here are the manufacturer specs for what I am working with...

HAT Unity U61-2
Tweeter Fs: 2.5 kHz
Midrange Fs: 75 Hz
Tweeter Rec HP: 5 kHz @ 12dB
Midrange Rec HP: 60 Hz @ 24dB

1. I'm not sure I completely understand how to calculate the correct size tweeter cap to use. Would the 68 uF referenced in the thread above be ok in my case?

2. Are the recommended crossover points above a good starting point or should I start with something like the below which would be more in line with what is being recommended in the AudioFrog thread?

Tweeter HP: 5 kHz @ 24dB
Midrange HP: 80 Hz @ 24dB
Sub LP: 60 Hz @ 24dB (1/2 octave below midrange HP)

Thanks again!!


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## karmajack

From what I've gathered about choosing a tweeter cap. The quick method.
Use this calculator. 

Enter the voice coil resistance in the Ohms box. Don't go by nominal impedance.

Enter the Fs of your tweeter. 

hit the = button. 

Your answer will be in the 1st Order (6 dB per Octave) on the right in the Microfarads (µfd) box. Choose a cap that is close to that. 

To be safer, you could choose a number slightly higher than your Fs. You don't want to choose a frequency that is too close to your lowest desired crossover point. And definitely not higher. 
I also understand, it's not uncommon to go a half octave below the Fs.


----------



## Holmz

karmajack said:


> ...
> 
> To be safer, you could choose a number slightly higher than your Fs. You don't want to choose a frequency that is too close to your lowest desired crossover point. And definitely not higher.
> I also understand, it's not uncommon to go a half octave below the Fs.


What definition of safety are you using?:
1) Not affecting the primary pass band sound wise?
2) or safe as in not able to sending much signal below F(s)?


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## karmajack

Holmz said:


> What definition of safety are you using?:
> 1) Not affecting the primary pass band sound wise?
> 2) or safe as in not able to sending much signal below F(s)?


Yea that was a pretty jumbled up paragraph. 

Above Fs, below x-over. 1 and 2.


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## MAIDEN69

What is the point? Isn't the tweeter protected already by the xover in the Dayton? Assuming you chose a proper xover point for the tweeters you are using? Or is the cap to keep from over powering the tweeters? Kicker Resolution components from the late 90's and early 2000's always had protection in their passive xovers. They looked like fuses but would light up like a bulb when you really pushed them. I assume they kind of buffered the power.


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## JCsAudio

MAIDEN69 said:


> What is the point? Isn't the tweeter protected already by the xover in the Dayton? Assuming you chose a proper xover point for the tweeters you are using? Or is the cap to keep from over powering the tweeters? Kicker Resolution components from the late 90's and early 2000's always had protection in their passive xovers. They looked like fuses but would light up like a bulb when you really pushed them. I assume they kind of buffered the power.


The point of the capacitor inline with the tweeter is a redundant but sometimes necessary backup protection in case the crossover point is set accidentally incorrectly or if a speaker pop from the amplifier gets sent to a tweeter than in theory it will be protected. 

Its really a cheap and inexpensive way to insure that if anything goes wrong with the DSP or upstream from the DSP that the tweeters will not be damaged.


----------



## minbari

Just don't forget the 90° phase shift it will inject into the system

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## RekeHavoc

Per the manufacturer, the voice coil impedance of my tweeter is 3.2 ohm. I plugged this into the calculator and I am coming up with the following. So I should pick a cap somewhere within this range?

Fs: 2.5 kHz -> 9.94748 uF

X-over: 5 kHz @ 12dB -> 19.89495 uF


----------



## minbari

RekeHavoc said:


> Per the manufacturer, the voice coil impedance of my tweeter is 3.2 ohm. I plugged this into the calculator and I am coming up with the following. So I should pick a cap somewhere within this range?
> 
> 
> 
> Fs: 2.5 kHz -> 9.94748 uF
> 
> 
> 
> X-over: 5 kHz @ 12dB -> 19.89495 uF


Impedance or RE? The DC ohms of the coil (RE) is not what you want to use. If it says 4ohms nominal impedance, its 4 ohms

Also a simple cap is NOT 12db. You have to have an inductor as well. A cap alone will be 6db

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## karmajack

He might be going by what I mentioned earlier. Which is what I got from Andy in his "To Cap or Not to Cap" article.

"...so long as it is lower than your crossover choice in your DSP. Be sure to consider the actual DCR of the tweeter in your calculations, not just the nominal impedance." -Frog

P.S. I don't mean to sound like a "but Andy says" wanker.


----------



## RekeHavoc

karmajack said:


> He might be going by what I mentioned earlier. Which is what I got from Andy in his "To Cap or Not to Cap" article.
> 
> "...so long as it is lower than your crossover choice in your DSP. Be sure to consider the actual DCR of the tweeter in your calculations, not just the nominal impedance." -Frog


Yes, I am. Using the nominal (4 ohms) gives me 7.95798 - 15.91596.


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## minbari

RekeHavoc said:


> Yes, I am. Using the nominal (4 ohms) gives me 7.95798 - 15.91596.


If it is just for protection, i wouldn't worry too much. You don't need it to sound good, just keep it alive. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RekeHavoc

minbari said:


> If it is just for protection, i wouldn't worry too much. You don't need it to sound good, just keep it alive.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Yes, exactly! In this case, can you tell me what you would recommend?


----------



## minbari

If you want a cap use between the 15-20uF you calcd. 
Personally I wouldn't use it. But something that is at fs would work

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## SQLnovice

I might pull the trigger on this just to start the learning process of tuning. I have been using an MS-8 for years now. The price point is just right.


----------



## kmbkk

I ordered this week to use in an NA Miata build.


----------



## Aldaa

Has anyone used/owned a Soundstream Synthesis or the PPI equivalent owned/used one of these? I'm considering buying one and curious about the comparative quality.


----------



## rton20s

Aldaa said:


> Has anyone used/owned a Soundstream Synthesis or the PPI equivalent owned/used one of these? I'm considering buying one and curious about the comparative quality.


The Soundstream Synthesis and PPI equivalent are similar (nearly identical except for some EQ options) to the miniDSP C-DSP 6x8. 

https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/c-dsp-6x8

Good processors for the price. Avoid the Soundstream Harmony and PPI equivalent. Too many issues.


----------



## Aldaa

rton20s said:


> The Soundstream Synthesis and PPI equivalent are similar (nearly identical except for some EQ options) to the miniDSP C-DSP 6x8.
> 
> https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/c-dsp-6x8
> 
> Good processors for the price. Avoid the Soundstream Harmony and PPI equivalent. Too many issues.


I never had any issues with my Synthesis, personally, but I have heard about some issues others had (don't remember the details). Is the Dayton equal to or better than the C-DSP? I reaaaaally like the idea of the bluetooth dongle for streaming... Saves me the cost and trouble of dealing with a head unit.


----------



## cycleguy

I have the Dayton Dsp but have removed all the system for a new 3 way active to be installed instead of my previous 2 way set up. One thing I did not try was streaming via the Bluetooth. So here are my questions if I was to use a DAP and stream to the DSP how good and stable is it and secondly how good is the music quality that get streamed. And lastly can I still use the H/U to control the volume ? .


----------



## minbari

cycleguy said:


> I have the Dayton Dsp but have removed all the system for a new 3 way active to be installed instead of my previous 2 way set up. One thing I did not try was streaming via the Bluetooth. So here are my questions if I was to use a DAP and stream to the DSP how good and stable is it and secondly how good is the music quality that get streamed. And lastly can I still use the H/U to control the volume ? .


Never had an issue, its BT4 so bitrate is high enough for just about anything (except lossless)
Yes you can. It works with a hu via high level or rca.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RekeHavoc

Can someone explain to me how the presets work? I have loaded 2 onto the DSP. Does it always default to the preset stored in the first slot each time it boots? How do I switch presets if I don't have the bluetooth adapter? I was thinking I would need to overwrite the preset in the first slot.


----------



## minbari

RekeHavoc said:


> Can someone explain to me how the presets work? I have loaded 2 onto the DSP. Does it always default to the preset stored in the first slot each time it boots? How do I switch presets if I don't have the bluetooth adapter? I was thinking I would need to overwrite the preset in the first slot.


Think of the presets as a memory location. You can recall a preset at any time.
No it doesn't default to any preset, it will remain where ever it was the last time you turned it on. In fact if you recall a preset and then make changes it will still come on that way.

Personally BT module is a must for this

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RekeHavoc

minbari said:


> Think of the presets as a memory location. You can recall a preset at any time.
> No it doesn't default to any preset, it will remain where ever it was the last time you turned it on. In fact if you recall a preset and then make changes it will still come on that way.
> 
> Personally BT module is a must for this
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Ah, I see. It sounds like whichever preset I loaded last into the pc app is the one it will use.


----------



## minbari

RekeHavoc said:


> Ah, I see. It sounds like whichever preset I loaded last into the pc app is the one it will use.


Yes. If you recall a preset,then that is the current setup

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## karmajack

I've made some progress on getting this thing installed. Can't do a whole lot in Ohio weather, and no garage or power out there. I have to do some physical rearrangement to my current layout, so I needed to start with an amp rack.
This is going under the cargo area of a compact crossover SUV. Next to the spare tire. (Nissan Juke). Room is tight. 

Got the template made.









Transferred and cut from 24" x 24" x .25" ABS. Lined the edge with foam gasket, Since it will be resting on bare metal in some parts. 









Put a layer of .25" CCF foam sheet on the bottom for cushioning. 









Mounted the DSP and 6 channel amp. Routed RCA's. The sub amp is still in the car in use. It's a DD, so I can't have her down for the work. Plus it's cold, so I can only get so much done at a time. It will be some time before I can get much further than this. Parts and supplies all gathered, just waiting for a good opportunity. 









I did also manage to replace my tweets though.
SEAS 27TFFNC/G's in the factory A-Pillars. 









They replaced tweeters from a JL C2 component set. Running off the C2 passive x-over temporarily till I get the rest of this done. They are a vast improvement to say the least. 

Might not seem like much, but there's plenty of little stuff that adds up that I need to do yet to get this up and running. Between wiring things up, and the tuning process. Having it look decent and not half assed takes the extra time. 

I'll chime in with progress reports as more gets done.


----------



## Truthunter

^^^ Nice!... You should start a thread in the build log section


----------



## karmajack

I contemplated a build log for a minute. I just didn't think what I could document would be worthy. Most of the system is already installed. I can only document the overhaul. 85% of which is the amp rack. I failed to take many pictures of the original install. A bunch of words without pretty pictures wouldn't be as interesting. I guess I can dig through my pics and see if I could put together something.


----------



## CMillet

I'm getting ready to install this in my 04 accord, using the stock headunit. Is there any reason I couldn't just use the 2 rear speaker outputs as my only inputs? Just trying to save some time as far as wiring.


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## minbari

CMillet said:


> I'm getting ready to install this in my 04 accord, using the stock headunit. Is there any reason I couldn't just use the 2 rear speaker outputs as my only inputs? Just trying to save some time as far as wiring.


As long as they are full range it will work

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Theslaking

If you have a factory sub there's a good chance they won't be full range.


----------



## CMillet

Theslaking said:


> If you have a factory sub there's a good chance they won't be full range.


No factory Sub that I'm aware of in 7th Gen Accords


----------



## crispin

I am just getting mine setup.

So is there really a problem using the 24 db slope?

I want to cut my tweeters at 2.5K what should I set the mid and tweeters to in order to accomplish that?


----------



## karmajack

crispin said:


> I am just getting mine setup.
> 
> So is there really a problem using the 24 db slope?
> 
> I want to cut my tweeters at 2.5K what should I set the mid and tweeters to in order to accomplish that?


From what I gather, this is an issue on newer firmwares. I'm unaware if it's been corrected lately. I haven't tried updating. 

To check. Set your HP to 2500 Linkwitz -24dB. Look at the slope in the graph. If the slope intersects at 2500 and -6dB at that setting, your good. 

If that 2500 setting intersects at more like 3150 @ -6db, you'll have to adjust and set to lower. Like about 1600. You can drag and set the frequency by the H on the graph. 

I would also double check with a mic to see what's going on.


----------



## crispin

karmajack said:


> From what I gather, this is an issue on newer firmwares. I'm unaware if it's been corrected lately. I haven't tried updating.
> 
> To check. Set your HP to 2500 Linkwitz -24dB. Look at the slope in the graph. If the slope intersects at 2500 and -6dB at that setting, your good.
> 
> If that 2500 setting intersects at more like 3150 @ -6db, you'll have to adjust and set to lower. Like about 1600. You can drag and set the frequency by the H on the graph.
> 
> I would also double check with a mic to see what's going on.


Could you tell me how to get to that graph? I have seen it posted here but have not figured out how to get to it.

I am using it on my laptop.

Thank you!


----------



## crispin

crispin said:


> Could you tell me how to get to that graph? I have seen it posted here but have not figured out how to get to it.
> 
> I am using it on my laptop.
> 
> Thank you!


Can anyone tell me how to get to the graph visual?


----------



## minbari

For the app? Its in the center on the eq or xover tabs

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## crispin

minbari said:


> For the app? Its in the center on the eq or xover tabs
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


No, sorry, from windows.


----------



## karmajack

crispin said:


> No, sorry, from windows.


This is what I'm talking about. 

Note the settings in the yellow circle on the left. 2500 Hz LR -24 db. 
The yellow circle on the right on the graph shows the target intersection. The black lines, as well as the blue drawn in slope, is where the green slope SHOULD intersect. 

If your green slope intersects where my black and blue lines do, you're good. No need to adjust. If your green is similar to this image, you need to adjust the Freq setting lower.


----------



## karmajack

Here's another image. 

This time the setting in the left circle is adjusted to 1600 hZ. Same target intersection on the graph. (2500 hz & -6dB) The green slope now intersects (roughly) where it should. 1600 is rough estimate. Not exact. 

This is what I would have to do on my DSP software to get 2500 Linkwitz-Riley -24 dB.


----------



## crispin

karmajack said:


> Here's another image.
> 
> This time the setting in the left circle is adjusted to 1600 hZ. Same target intersection on the graph. (2500 hz & -6dB) The green slope now intersects (roughly) where it should. 1600 is rough estimate. Not exact.
> 
> This is what I would have to do on my DSP software to get 2500 Linkwitz-Riley -24 dB.


Ah I see, thank you very much. I will check mine and see what it looks like.


----------



## tricon

Hey Guys, loooooots of great advice in this thread, I think I've read every post so far. Have a couple questions for you guys since there's some super knowledgeable mofos in there.

I have a '17 Superduty with the following in it:

- Stock Sync 3 HU
- Infinity Kappa Perfect 600's up front (passive)
- Dayton 4" Center Channel
- Polk DB 6.5's in the rear (for fill)
- 2 Infinity 10's behind the seat

The Perfects are powered by a small kenwood 4ch amp, bridged its giving them 191w RMS. Rears are just run off the head hu. Subs have 250w RMS to them.

The whole system really sounds amazing for how little Ive spent on it. But I can tell the fronts need a lot of love with TA and some EQ. I'm really interested in getting the DSP408 and running the fronts active and the sub. Should I get another 4 channel amp and run my center and rears through the DSP as well? Should I just disconnect them? Im pretty sure a lot of my Android Auto prompts come primarily through the center channel, not 100% on that yet.

What would you guys do? I guess I can start with running the fronts active and my subs, and hoping the rears and the center dont destroy my staging that much....hmm.


----------



## karmajack

Okay I had a streak of good weather and time, so I got most of it done. Setbacks and all. 
Everything was a super tight fit. Did the best I could with what little room I had. Was nervous firing her up, but she came on fine. No noise thank god. All Gains set, polarity checked, balance checked. Starting levels, timing, and x-over points all set. No EQ yet. Sounds great so far with on a rough ear setting. I'll be tuning over the next few days, or next weekend when I get time. So far, it's fun. Already noticeable improvement over passive and Pioneer's 6100NEX tuning abilities.


----------



## JCsAudio

Looks good and nice clean install too.


----------



## crispin

I am getting some full range sound from my tweeters while the dayton boots up.

I think my best option is just to delay the turn on of my amps for a few seconds just to give the dayton time to get going.

What is the simplest / cheapest way to delay the amps turning on? 

Is there a simple delay circuit I can buy? 

I think a delay of about 5 seconds would be more than enough time.

Any suggestions?


----------



## minbari

crispin said:


> I am getting some full range sound from my tweeters while the dayton boots up.
> 
> 
> 
> I think my best option is just to delay the turn on of my amps for a few seconds just to give the dayton time to get going.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the simplest / cheapest way to delay the amps turning on?
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a simple delay circuit I can buy?
> 
> 
> 
> I think a delay of about 5 seconds would be more than enough time.
> 
> 
> 
> Any suggestions?


Use the rm out from the 408. It's already delayed

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## crispin

minbari said:


> Use the rm out from the 408. It's already delayed
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I am using that already.

Perhaps that is my issue, mine is not delayed.

I will double check my wiring to make sure I haven't made a mistake with the remote wire.


----------



## minbari

If you need more delay. Look up "time delay relay"

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## 04quadcab

How do I set up L-R, and R-L for rear fill?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## RRizz

crispin said:


> I am using that already.
> 
> Perhaps that is my issue, mine is not delayed.
> 
> I will double check my wiring to make sure I haven't made a mistake with the remote wire.


 Ive had the same issue since day 1. its like the noise dances from speaker to speaker, sequentially as the unit boots up. Lasts about 3-4 seconds, then all is quiet. Just a minor irritation, but hey, it was $150, lol.


----------



## tricon

crispin said:


> I am getting some full range sound from my tweeters while the dayton boots up.
> 
> I think my best option is just to delay the turn on of my amps for a few seconds just to give the dayton time to get going.
> 
> What is the simplest / cheapest way to delay the amps turning on?
> 
> Is there a simple delay circuit I can buy?
> 
> I think a delay of about 5 seconds would be more than enough time.
> 
> Any suggestions?


Why not just put a capacitor on your tweeters, cheap insurance at about $3 and you dont have to worry about delay.


----------



## Reid1980

[/QUOTE]

Why not just put a capacitor on your tweeters, cheap insurance at about $3 and you dont have to worry about delay.[/QUOTE]

Probably because this shouldn't be happening anyways and its annoying. Im getting it through my subs. It may be just chanel 1 and 2 that are doing it because thats what i have my subs on. All my other speakers have no pops when turning on. My subs pop 3 times


----------



## minbari

tricon said:


> Why not just put a capacitor on your tweeters, cheap insurance at about $3 and you dont have to worry about delay.


Cause a good cap is more than $3. Plus you induce a 45° phase shift

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Reid1980

So it turned out it was my sub amp causing the turn on pops. Just switched to another amp and no issues what so ever.


----------



## unix_usr

minbari said:


> Cause a good cap is more than $3. Plus you induce a 45° phase shift
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk




I used to think the same way... then I read, and listened to someone with actual evidence and a lot more experience than me: https://www.audiofrog.com/community...p-tweeters-in-systems-with-active-crossovers/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cycleguy

I tried my 408 out streaming for the first time last week which it did very well however the only way I was able to control the volume was from my phone. Is it possible to stream and use the H/U volume knob ?


----------



## minbari

cycleguy said:


> I tried my 408 out streaming for the first time last week which it did very well however the only way I was able to control the volume was from my phone. Is it possible to stream and use the H/U volume knob ?


If your hu has bluetooth, yes. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## cycleguy

minbari said:


> If your hu has bluetooth, yes.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Thanks just tried that and it worked a treat


----------



## Alain93

Hi Guys,

I just installed my dsp yesterday, I was able to send, I guess, a saved preset to the dsp and got the sound going around the speakers briefly one after the other, like the sound was turning around me, then it stopped.
I restarted the system re-plugged the dsp in usb and I got an error message, after "data transmission", I got "File Data Error".
It gave me the choice to click Yes to clear data or No to exit. If I click yes, the software stays on but it crashes if I try to load or reset anything.

How to resolve this?


----------



## DanLeow

Alain93 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I just installed my dsp yesterday, I was able to send, I guess, a saved preset to the dsp and got the sound going around the speakers briefly one after the other, like the sound was turning around me, then it stopped.
> I restarted the system re-plugged the dsp in usb and I got an error message, after "data transmission", I got "File Data Error".
> It gave me the choice to click Yes to clear data or No to exit. If I click yes, the software stays on but it crashes if I try to load or reset anything.
> 
> How to resolve this?


Mine got the same problem, out of the box!!!
Emailed to Part Express and Dayton Audio.
Anybody?? Any clues how to move on..


----------



## minbari

Do you guys have the bt module? If so does the phone app work?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Alain93

I called Part-Express yesterday, the guy told me to try with the $40 bluetooth dongle. Yes, sure, let me spend $40 more to see if your product works. So I bought the damn thing. Waiting.


----------



## karmajack

DanLeow said:


> Mine got the same problem, out of the box!!!
> Emailed to Part Express and Dayton Audio.
> Anybody?? Any clues how to move on..


I had one crash like this when I first got mine. I thought it might have been because I had both the BT and PC software going at the same time. I rebooted everything and it went away. Reboot meaning shutting down and restarting all the hardware including the computer, the DSP, and the phone. 

I will also add I find the android BT software to be less finicky, and less issue ridden. It's just a bit harder to navigate on a small screen though. 

Like the known Linkwitz-Riley issue doesn't seem to exist on the android software. But is present on the current PC firmware.


----------



## minbari

karmajack said:


> I had one crash like this when I first got mine. I thought it might have been because I had both the BT and PC software going at the same time. I rebooted everything and it went away. Reboot meaning shutting down and restarting all the hardware including the computer, the DSP, and the phone.
> 
> 
> 
> *I will also add I find the android BT software to be less finicky, and less issue ridden. It's just a bit harder to navigate on a small screen though. *
> 
> 
> 
> Like the known Linkwitz-Riley issue doesn't seem to exist on the android software. But is present on the current PC firmware.


That's why I mentioned it. Most people seem to have more success with the phone app. I have never used the PC app.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Truthunter

Hmmm, I used the pc app exclusively and never had an issue... but this was with the original release and a first batch dsp.


----------



## karmajack

The BT is worth it to me. It's so convenient to tune or adjust on the fly. My unit is hidden beneath my cargo floor. I'd have to take apart too much to access it to plug it into a laptop. Or I'd have to have an easy access USB extension running somewhere. I haven't really even used BT for a streaming. Just tuning and preset switching. I'll have REW up on the laptop, and make adjustments on the phone. I like that process. 

The only downsides I've found are... The DSP and phone won't discover and pair each other without them being booted up in range of each other. If I remote start my car to warm it up, when I get to my car, I have to manually pair up. 
The other thing is, I can't adjust a tune unless I'm connected and paired. There's been a couple times where I'm in the house and think of something I want to try, but it wont save or apply that adjustment til I'm paired. 

That's minor stuff though, and should be somewhat expected with BT stuff like this.
Sure the layout is a bit cleaner on a PC. You can type in numbers and drag sliders easier. But it's really not that bad on the phone.


----------



## minbari

Mine does the manual pair thing too. Not a big deal most of the time

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Alain93

DanLeow said:


> Mine got the same problem, out of the box!!!
> Emailed to Part Express and Dayton Audio.
> Anybody?? Any clues how to move on..


Part-Express just emailed me, they will replace it. 
It's a known issue and are working with the manufacturer to fix the problem.


----------



## mattkim1337

Does anyone know if this DSP can do a differential rear fill (L-R)?


----------



## rton20s

mattkim1337 said:


> Does anyone know if this DSP can do a differential rear fill (L-R)?


I do not own the DSP, but based on what I am seeing on the iOS app it does not.


----------



## minbari

mattkim1337 said:


> Does anyone know if this DSP can do a differential rear fill (L-R)?


It does not

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## DanLeow

karmajack said:


> I had one crash like this when I first got mine. I thought it might have been because I had both the BT and PC software going at the same time. I rebooted everything and it went away. Reboot meaning shutting down and restarting all the hardware including the computer, the DSP, and the phone.
> 
> I will also add I find the android BT software to be less finicky, and less issue ridden. It's just a bit harder to navigate on a small screen though.
> 
> Like the known Linkwitz-Riley issue doesn't seem to exist on the android software. But is present on the current PC firmware.


Yup,did that. Change wire, power supply, different laptops too... LOL..
Same old problem.


----------



## DanLeow

Alain93 said:


> Part-Express just emailed me, they will replace it.
> It's a known issue and are working with the manufacturer to fix the problem.


That's cool. But I stay in a inspiring communist like little democratic island call Singapore.


----------



## DanLeow

minbari said:


> Cause a good cap is more than $3. Plus you induce a 45° phase shift
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I intend to use back the crossover unit that comes with my focal 165F for tweeter protection. Mids will be directly from the amp.
Hope it turns up well.


----------



## Alain93

DanLeow said:


> That's cool. But I stay in a inspiring communist like little democratic island call Singapore.


I should receive the BT dongle this weekend, I'll let you know if it's working with it.


----------



## minbari

DanLeow said:


> I intend to use back the crossover unit that comes with my focal 165F for tweeter protection. Mids will be directly from the amp.
> 
> Hope it turns up well.


I just would not worry about it. Double check your settings before you power it and then use low volume at first to verify.



Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## DanLeow

I found a way to above problem. You just use the Remote controller to launch any of still available 5 presets into the DSP before connecting to Windows. Once "Transmission" is successful, do a factory reset from the DSP Windows's topleft dropdown menu. Everything should be fine, including Bluetooth. I hope this can work for your unit too.
But I wouldn't know what else can be done if you dont have the RC. 
I'll inform PE to forget about the replacing the unit.


----------



## Alain93

The BT dongle doesn't fix the problem, the app crashes just after 100% connection.
Part-express will send me a remote for free


----------



## Aslmx

Stupid question? Is this dsp worth the money and trouble if I already have a pioneer avh 4800 with “some” processing adjustments? Will it be a big difference? In all honesty I’ve never heard a car that had a dsp.


----------



## ckirocz28

Aslmx said:


> Stupid question? Is this dsp worth the money and trouble if I already have a pioneer avh 4800 with “some” processing adjustments? Will it be a big difference? In all honesty I’ve never heard a car that had a dsp.


Yes.


----------



## Aslmx

ckirocz28 said:


> Aslmx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid question? Is this dsp worth the money and trouble if I already have a pioneer avh 4800 with “some” processing adjustments? Will it be a big difference? In all honesty I’ve never heard a car that had a dsp.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
Click to expand...

 okay.


----------



## ckirocz28

Aslmx said:


> okay.


I don't own one of these, I have a MiniDSP 8x12 v2, but it's the first DSP I've owned and it proved to me that the hype about DSP's is all true. I have a Pioneer DEH-80PRS that has one of the best hu dsp's available, but the external dsp is a HUGE improvement. At $149 I don't think anyone can argue about the value of the Dayton dsp.


----------



## karmajack

Aslmx said:


> Stupid question? Is this dsp worth the money and trouble if I already have a pioneer avh 4800 with “some” processing adjustments? Will it be a big difference? In all honesty I’ve never heard a car that had a dsp.


If you are able to provide each speaker it's own channel of amplification, then definitely a noticeable improvement will be heard. 

"Worth the trouble" is a personal decision. There's knowledge to be obtained to get the full experience. It's not really something you hook up, and have dialed in right away. More so if it's your first foray into DSP's. 

If you're willing to learn, and want to put in the effort, and want to take it to the next level, than the reward can be there. 

For $150 the Dayton 408 is THE best bang for the buck DSP right now. Sure there's better, but not for near the price. The Dayton is just as capable as several other similar DSP's that cost 2-3 times more. Great starter DSP because of the price, interface, and features.


----------



## JRsmoothee

so on my laptop my LR 24 slope is down -12 at crossover point (i have read this is a problem) but on my phone app it is correct at -6db...i hear no audible difference when switching from laptop to phone app.... so which one is correct?? i have measured with RTA but cant really tell if its really down -12 or -6 (audiotools & dayton phone mic)....is there a firmware update for windows, i uninstalled and reinstalled GUI from website....but it made no difference, still -12db on laptop....i do all my tuning from laptop (easier IMO) so this is driving me nuts....is the windows GUI just a visual glitch on their graph and its really only -6db, i dunno


----------



## karmajack

I spoke with Dayton not long ago about this. They said a firmware update is being worked on that addresses this issue as well as a couple other bug fixes. It's coming, we just have to be patient. 

I haven't been able to confirm or not whether it's a graphical or not either. I failed to hear or record a difference myself. Though to play it safe, I go by the app for x-over settings...And have since mostly tuned via app. 

If the issue annoys you enough, you can use an older FW from https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dsp-processor/dayton-audio-dsp-408-4x8-digital-audio-processor-dsp-adau1701-sigmadsp-2556bit-4-to-8-channels-p-13043.html

...Mind you since that is older FW, some interface features are not present. I forget exactly which.


----------



## JRsmoothee

ok thanks....i guess its just hurry up and wait for firmware....


----------



## Iamsecond

So, I just got the Dayton Dsp for my daughters' car. I wanted to play with it before I installed it later this week. So..... I pluged it up and set the turn on to RCA. Green light lights up. Bluetooth dongle is connected to the unit. I pull up the app on my iphone and hit the power button and Scanning Devices comes up and goes away. Then dsp clicks several times and cuts off. Am I doing something wrong? Or do you have to install it and connect rcas to make it work?


----------



## RRizz

Im going to say yes. If its set to rca turn on, it will power on with a incoming signal, one would assume.


----------



## Theslaking

Iamsecond said:


> Or do you have to install it and connect rcas to make it work?


If auto sense is set to on, then yes. But it doesn't have to be but then you'll have to put 12v to the remote


----------



## Iamsecond

ok so after playing a bit I got it going. I left it on the rem setting and connected it to my pc and then turned on streaming and then connected to the Bluetooth on the phone. It connected and works. You have to disconnect the pc to make changes etc on the phone but when you save them you can bring it up on the pc.

So a couple of things I noticed. 
on the app the crossover settings are perfect. -6 at crossover frequency on the phone. However, on the pc, it is off quite a bit. I loaded the preset I created on the phone on the pc and all the crossover settings are off. Mini is correct when he said the phone was fine. Apparently, it is an issue with the pc software but not the phone software. 

This is going to be the focal point of my daughter's system. Man, she has an awesome dad. Lol. As far as the process of setting up and playing with this, I much prefer the phone Bluetooth adjustments to draggin my computer out to the car when I want to do anything. My battery on the computer is not great and I have to drag an extension cord from the garage to the car.

I did find something I do not like. The q adjustment by the slider is a bit of a bummer. You can't get as precise as you can with the pc. So do you get close and then pull up the pc and make adjustments? so that kinda makes the phone things pointless.


----------



## richardar6

I did find something I do not like. The q adjustment by the slider is a bit of a bummer. You can't get as precise as you can with the pc. So do you get close and then pull up the pc and make adjustments? so that kinda makes the phone things pointless.[/QUOTE said:


> Tap the actual number next "Q"in the app. It will bring up another slider with + and -. Use that slider or tap the + or -. Works for frequency too. It works a little better.


----------



## Iamsecond

I tried that but I have an iPhone and that only works on the frequency change. They need to make it work on the iPhone app


----------



## richardar6

Bummer--that sucks. I have issues with the Eq sliders. You get it just right, take your finger off, and it jumps higher or lower. Or, I touch to adjust and it jumps super high. Try that with a car load of people and a heavy bass song (make sure no one is holding a drink at the time, lol).


----------



## Iamsecond

That’s funny. Yeah a few bugs need to be tweaked. Still not bad for being so new.


----------



## minbari

Iamsecond said:


> So, I just got the Dayton Dsp for my daughters' car. I wanted to play with it before I installed it later this week. So..... I pluged it up and set the turn on to RCA. Green light lights up. Bluetooth dongle is connected to the unit. I pull up the app on my iphone and hit the power button and Scanning Devices comes up and goes away. Then dsp clicks several times and cuts off. Am I doing something wrong? Or do you have to install it and connect rcas to make it work?


If you are just testing it. Jumper the power over to "rm in" and change the switch to remote.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Iamsecond

Got it working. 
However I found that you can not use shelf filters with phone app, well, with iPhone app anyway. So you have to use pc and phone app to get things set up. The q adjustment doesn’t work properly on iPhone either.


----------



## Alain93

Finally the DSP is working with the remote.
When connected to the phone, something annoying happens, every time I touch the phone's screen, the sound cut, even if the dsp's app is not running.
Is it normal behavior?


----------



## cycleguy

well I have changed my system from 2 way+sub to 3way+sub I had it sounding quite good with just by ear tunning with the 2 way setup but now it 3 way not sounding that good have had a play with xover settings but not really happy with the sound at the minute. Whilst playing with the setting I see in the EQ tab there are 2 adjustments that can be made these are the Q and the frequency these are at the defaut at the minute as I'm not sure what and how to adjust any pointers would be a great help


----------



## minbari

cycleguy said:


> well I have changed my system from 2 way+sub to 3way+sub I had it sounding quite good with just by ear tunning with the 2 way setup but now it 3 way not sounding that good have had a play with xover settings but not really happy with the sound at the minute. Whilst playing with the setting I see in the EQ tab there are 2 adjustments that can be made these are the Q and the frequency these are at the defaut at the minute as I'm not sure what and how to adjust any pointers would be a great help


Freq of course is self explanatory. Q (stands for quality, no idea why) is channel width. A Q of 0.667 will affect 2 octaves. (1up and 1 down) a Q of 1.414 will effect 1 octave ( 1/2 up and 1/2 down).
Just remember that a smaller Q has a wider effect and larger Q will have a narrower effect. Q above 2 will have a notch effect. Very good at isolating a peak or dip but can cause an unnatural sound if too much boost or cut is used, so be careful with it.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


edit *** great article on the subject

Q factor vs bandwidth in octaves band filter -3 dB pass calculator calculation formula quality factor Q to bandwidth BW width octave convert filter BW octave vibration mastering slope dB/oct steepness EQ filter equalizer cutoff freqiency - sengpielau


----------



## Lanson

Jazzi's tutorials on this forum are also extremely valuable learning info. That's what got me way better, along with QA sessions with members here.


----------



## cycleguy

fourthmeal said:


> Jazzi's tutorials on this forum are also extremely valuable learning info. That's what got me way better, along with QA sessions with members here.


Are these Stickeys on the site or will I have to search his posts


----------



## Lanson

cycleguy said:


> Are these Stickeys on the site or will I have to search his posts



Also forgot about Hanatsu...

How about these


https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...first-timers-guide-measuring-your-system.html


https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...1-jazzis-tuning-companion-room-eq-wizard.html


----------



## Grinder

fourthmeal said:


> Jazzi's tutorials on this forum are also extremely valuable learning info. That's what got me way better, along with QA sessions with members here.


Jazzi (Zazzi) ...kinda like Bikinipunk (Bikinpunk)


----------



## rton20s

Grinder said:


> Jazzi (Zazzi) ...kinda like Bikinipunk (Bikinpunk)


Justin's handle actually used to be Jazzi. I think that is why most still refer to him as such.


----------



## Lanson

rton20s said:


> Justin's handle actually used to be Jazzi. I think that is why most still refer to him as such.



Yeah its "Jazzi's Tuning Companion" thread


----------



## cycleguy

minbari said:


> So i went and read the articles that Andy wrote about it. Went and redid my t/a based on what he said. What a huge difference! Sure I will still have to find tune some more. But bass is better, imaging is way better. Close your eyes and you can't tell where it comes from.
> 
> Thanks for the tip
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


minbari can you confirm after reading Andy's article on T/A what did you use to input your measurement Inches /CM or did you use the formula suggeted and input the delay ?


----------



## minbari

cycleguy said:


> minbari can you confirm after reading Andy's article on T/A what did you use to input your measurement Inches /CM or did you use the formula suggeted and input the delay ?


I used a website to calc distances into ms times and used that. I still used andy's methods for what to set

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Grinder

rton20s said:


> Justin's handle actually used to be Jazzi. I think that is why most still refer to him as such.





fourthmeal said:


> Yeah its "Jazzi's Tuning Companion" thread


Ha! Thanks, guys.


----------



## Iamsecond

cycleguy said:


> well I have changed my system from 2 way+sub to 3way+sub I had it sounding quite good with just by ear tunning with the 2 way setup but now it 3 way not sounding that good have had a play with xover settings but not really happy with the sound at the minute. Whilst playing with the setting I see in the EQ tab there are 2 adjustments that can be made these are the Q and the frequency these are at the defaut at the minute as I'm not sure what and how to adjust any pointers would be a great help


Did you redo time alignment, level match, and crossovers? 
I did not realize how much a difference is made with just these three processes done correctly. 
Most people we deal with just want huge amp and subs. I’m working on the third install with a dsp and it keeps getting better and better. Eq last to taste. 
Also, I realized how my ears deceive me yesterday. A guy demoed my 4Runner and said the stage was perfect and the balance was great. However, I was about to start changing levels and eq but I didn’t. Reason, my abused hearing has changed and I set the car up by the numbers and it was spot on. My ear adjustments can mess things up. This is my experience. I was going to lower the levels on the passenger side to pull the image over but he said it was right in the center of the dash and up near the windshield, but to me it sounds right side heavy. Maybe start with these three and a tape and spl meter.


----------



## johnny52

Hi everyone.

I'm trying to make working the 408 since last sunday. Not able to obtain a logic setup. Inputs and channels are all mixup.

Details:

The temporary setup is done in my basement with 3 home amplifiers
Windows application on laptop 
Streaming OFF 
Bluetooth plugged 
RCA HIGH from DEH880PRS to IN1 and IN2
RCA MID from DEH880PRS to IN3 and IN4
Channel MBassG = Midbass gauche
Channel MbassD = Midbass droit
Channel MRangeD = Midrange droit
Channel MRangeG = Midrange gauche
Channel TweetG = Tweeter gauche
Channel TweetD = Tweeter droit
Channel Nil = Futur sub 
Channel Nil = Futur sub 

Picture of tweeter setup:

1 Look at channelsTweetG and TweetD in this picture. At left only IN1 is ON. There is sound to both tweeters 

[URL=http://s172.photobucket.com/user/johnnyboy52/media/DSP-408/20190308_183743_zpslu5fhjbp_edit_1552103867548_zpsarlextri.jpg.html][/URL]

2 Look at channel TweetD. IN1, IN2, IN3 and IN4 are ON. There is no sound at all to left and right tweeters

[URL=http://s172.photobucket.com/user/johnnyboy52/media/DSP-408/20190308_184144_zps4ejnzpcd.jpg.html][/URL]

3 On the left tweeter, only IN2 is ON. There is sound to both tweeters

[URL=http://s172.photobucket.com/user/johnnyboy52/media/DSP-408/20190308_185435_005_zpsutjg6d8x.jpg.html][/URL]

4 On the left tweeter, only IN3 is ON. There is sound to both tweeters.

[URL=http://s172.photobucket.com/user/johnnyboy52/media/DSP-408/20190308_190518_002_zps3hsyyvoy.jpg.html][/URL]

5 On the left tweeter, only IN4 is ON. There is sound to both tweeters.

[URL=http://s172.photobucket.com/user/johnnyboy52/media/DSP-408/20190308_190950_001_zpsiixbik2m.jpg.html][/URL]

I cannot understand why. If I look at midbass and midrange I have also some weird results. Did I have done something wrong? Tomorrow I will try Android application with Bluetooth and see the results.


----------



## Theslaking

Some people have had issues with the input/output of the DSP being messed up from the factory. I was one of them.


----------



## johnny52

Did you return it.


----------



## Iamsecond

I would say you have your rcas inputs mixed up. I did my daughters car and it sounded good but when tuning it I noticed a guitar in a song was missing and realized I had my rcas mixed up at the output of the dsp. They can get confusing but that is probably your issue. I didn’t look closely at the dsp to notice how they were labelled on the dsp. Best bet would be to simply retrace your rcas to amp and plug one rca in at a time to find the issue.


----------



## minbari

Iamsecond said:


> I would say you have your rcas inputs mixed up. I did my daughters car and it sounded good but when tuning it I noticed a guitar in a song was missing and realized I had my rcas mixed up at the output of the dsp. They can get confusing but that is probably your issue. I didn’t look closely at the dsp to notice how they were labelled on the dsp. Best bet would be to simply retrace your rcas to amp and plug one rca in at a time to find the issue.


And if you are using the speaker level inputs. They are almost sure to be labeled wrong. Its a known issue

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Toowonphyve

I hope this hasn't been addressed already in this thread, but I didn't have enough time to read through all 35 pages lol.

After setting up my Dayton DSP I have a very noticeable drop in overall volume. About 2/3 of what my system was putting out before at comparable HU volume levels. I've left the amp gains the same and only dropped the tweeter output level on the Dayton app to blend with the other drivers. I've triple checked all RCA / speaker connections, quadruple checked my crossover/ output/ delay settings in the Dayton DSP App...and I just can't get the power back that I had before installing the DSP-408.

Master volume is currently at 57, but the max of 60 makes little difference.

I'm fairly sure I have things configured correctly in the mixer section... 

My 4 inputs on DSP coming from the HU look like this:

HU Output DSP-408

Front L --> Input 1
Front R --> Input 2
Sub L --> Input 3
Sub R --> Input 4

DSP Outputs are:
DSP Amp 1
ch 1 ---> Sub L
ch 2 ---> Sub R
ch 3 ---> Mid L
ch 4 ---> Mid R
ch 5 ---> Tweet L
ch 6 ---> Tweet R
channel 7+8 will feed 2nd amp for full range Rear speakers but that's not hooked up yet

So on the mixer page of the app I have:
Channel 1: Input 3 (Sub Input L) at level 100 (all other input levels at 0)
Channel 2: Input 4 (Sub Input R) at level 100 (all other input levels at 0)
Channel 3: Input 1 (Front Input L) at level 100 (all other input levels at 0)
Channel 4: Input 2 (Front Input R) at level 100 (all other input levels at 0)
Channel 5: Input 1 (Front Input L) at level 100 (all other input levels at 0)
Channel 6: Input 2 (Front Input R) at level 100 (all other input levels at 0)

Hope you were able to follow along with that - A picture attachment feature would come in handy right now lol.
But does that configuration sound right? 

On the Output page all of my channel output levels are in the upper range between 52 - 60 (Max) mixed to blend with each other. And even with the app's Home page "Main Volume" at level 60 (max), the overall system (front Components and Sub) is significantly lower in dB's than before at similar HU volume levels. 


The RCA output Voltage of DSP-408 (3.5V) is only slightly lower than my HU's RCA outputs which is rated at 4V (according to Pioneer). Would this 0.5V difference cause such a dramatic difference in volume at The same Amp Gain levels?

The other changes to the overall system are removing the Passive crossovers (to go active with the DSP). And I had to add a power distribution block to power up the new second amp for the rear speakers. So now I have a 4 gauge wire going from battery to distribution block, and a 4 gauge and an 8 gauge coming out to each amp respectively. Before, that 4 gauge was going direct from battery to my 5 channel amp. Could this distribution block be the cause of my power/ volume loss?

I hope I'm doing something wrong and someone can point me in the right direction. I'd love to take advantage of the parametric EQ's and advanced TA the Dayton 408 offers over my Pioneer head unit for finer tuning. But at this point things were in a better place before introducing it into the chain. 

Thanks in advance for any input!!


----------



## Theslaking

Yes the different voltage at amp can cause a noticeable difference. Did you adjust your amp gains?


----------



## Theslaking

Code:







johnny52 said:


> Did you return it.


Nope. Mine was a set and forget it in a install. So once I figured out the mismatch I rolled with it.


----------



## Toowonphyve

Theslaking said:


> Yes the different voltage at amp can cause a noticeable difference. Did you adjust your amp gains?


no not yet - they are still where they were before installing DSP. Was planning to reset them with an O-scope after I get a solid EQ tuned in. But wasn't expecting such a volume drop by introducing the DSP-408 in the meantime.


----------



## minbari

Toowonphyve said:


> no not yet - they are still where they were before installing DSP. Was planning to reset them with an O-scope after I get a solid EQ tuned in. But wasn't expecting such a volume drop by introducing the DSP-408 in the meantime.


Although 0.5v is a measurable amount. It shouldn't make a world of difference. Realise that 3.5v output is optimal. Most likely the difference is from gain structure IN the DSP. There is input gain, output gain, eq, and master volume. This all effects it

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Lanson

well, going from 2v to 4v would be +3dB, so going from 4 to 3.5 is a minuscule dB difference. Just a bit of headroom, really.


----------



## minbari

fourthmeal said:


> well, going from 2v to 4v would be +3dB, so going from 4 to 3.5 is a minuscule dB difference. Just a bit of headroom, really.


Not exactly. If I had 2v of signal I would set the amplifiers for a 2v peak. If I had 4 volts set it for 4volts. Only really difference is signal-to-noise ratio.
If you didn't re-set the amp gains, that would be true.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Lanson

minbari said:


> Not exactly. If I had 2v of signal I would set the amplifiers for a 2v peak. If I had 4 volts set it for 4volts. Only really difference is signal-to-noise ratio.
> If you didn't re-set the amp gains, that would be true.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk



That's what I'm talking about. Signal to noise ratio would be less than a dB difference in 3.5V vs 4V input.


Then we get into the concept that nothing really reaches reference level, so now you're deciding if you want to use up that headroom or not. Clipping an input sure does sound horrible though.


----------



## minbari

fourthmeal said:


> That's what I'm talking about. Signal to noise ratio would be less than a dB difference in 3.5V vs 4V input.
> 
> 
> Then we get into the concept that nothing really reaches reference level, so now you're deciding if you want to use up that headroom or not. Clipping an input sure does sound horrible though.


Agreed. Clipping an input 0.5v vs 0.5v on the output of an amplifier. The input will be very noticeable

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## johnny52

Iamsecond said:


> I would say you have your rcas inputs mixed up. I did my daughters car and it sounded good but when tuning it I noticed a guitar in a song was missing and realized I had my rcas mixed up at the output of the dsp. They can get confusing but that is probably your issue. I didn’t look closely at the dsp to notice how they were labelled on the dsp. Best bet would be to simply retrace your rcas to amp and plug one rca in at a time to find the issue.


First, I realized that the left speakers outputs of the tweeters amp were dead. I have an other amp for the tweeters.

I have unpluged the RCA MID from the headunit and the INPUT 1 and 2 of the DSP-408. I have only INPUT 3 and 4 with the RCA HIGH of the headunit. Still have 6 channels OUTPUTS: tweeter, midrange and midbass.

The new setup is now working well.

Thanks everyone.


----------



## reid1boys

johnny52 said:


> First, I realized that the left speakers outputs of the tweeters amp were dead. I have an other amp for the tweeters.
> 
> I have unpluged the RCA MID from the headunit and the INPUT 1 and 2 of the DSP-408. I have only INPUT 3 and 4 with the RCA HIGH of the head unit. Still have 6 channels OUTPUTS: tweeter, midrange and midbass.
> 
> The new setup is now working well.
> 
> Thanks everyone.


What model pioneer are you using? I just got the mvh 2300 NEX and I have the Dayton arriving Friday. I was wondering which out puts on the head unit I should be using to go into the Dayton. IM assuming all i need to use is the two HIGH outputs from the Pioneer into the Dayton. The Dayton can then turn that signal into 6 outs, 2 for the tweeter amp, 2 for the mid amp, and then for me, one out put since I have a mono sub amp.

So you originally were using the high and mid outputs on your pioneer, and are now only using the2 outputs from your Pioneer?


----------



## Lanson

johnny52 said:


> First, I realized that the left speakers outputs of the tweeters amp were dead. I have an other amp for the tweeters.
> 
> I have unpluged the RCA MID from the headunit and the INPUT 1 and 2 of the DSP-408. I have only INPUT 3 and 4 with the RCA HIGH of the headunit. Still have 6 channels OUTPUTS: tweeter, midrange and midbass.
> 
> The new setup is now working well.
> 
> Thanks everyone.



So at least we can say the Dayton unit is working as intended?


----------



## johnny52

reid1boys said:


> What model pioneer are you using? I just got the mvh 2300 NEX and I have the Dayton arriving Friday. I was wondering which out puts on the head unit I should be using to go into the Dayton. IM assuming all i need to use is the two HIGH outputs from the Pioneer into the Dayton. The Dayton can then turn that signal into 6 outs, 2 for the tweeter amp, 2 for the mid amp, and then for me, one out put since I have a mono sub amp.
> 
> So you originally were using the high and mid outputs on your pioneer, and are now only using the2 outputs from your Pioneer?


I have an old Pioneer DEH P880PRS. You are right. I'm using RCA HIGH left and right of the Pioneer for INPUT 3 and 4 of the DSP-408.

Now I can plan the setup for the RAV4. I have everything except the 6.5'' midbass for frequencies between 60 and 400 htz. If somebody have a suggestion, it's welcome.


----------



## Toowonphyve

[/QUOTE]Agreed. Clipping an input 0.5v vs 0.5v on the output of an amplifier. The input will be very noticeable

...so I didn't realize at first that the Dayton claims a max input of 3.2 volts. If my Pioneer HU puts out the 4V it claims is that a problem from an SQ perspective? Am I straining or clipping the signal to the Dayton right out of the gate? I'm not sure how it works but does the HU RCA's output 4V continuously or only when the HU's volume is at it's max level (40 in my case)


----------



## jesh4622

johnny52 said:


> I have everything except the 6.5'' midbass for frequencies between 60 and 400 htz. If somebody have a suggestion, it's welcome.


This is the driver to beat, in my opinion:

https://www.parts-express.com/peerl...04-6-1-2-aluminum-cone-woofer-4-ohm--264-1564

The minimum order is too high right now, but it will go back down. Look at that xmax! The Qts is also ideal for an in-door application. The main downside is that they are not very efficient.




Toowonphyve said:


> ...so I didn't realize at first that the Dayton claims a max input of 3.2 volts. If my Pioneer HU puts out the 4V it claims is that a problem from an SQ perspective? Am I straining or clipping the signal to the Dayton right out of the gate? I'm not sure how it works but does the HU RCA's output 4V continuously or only when the HU's volume is at it's max level (40 in my case)


This question is asked in the questions section of the DSP. The general consensus seems to be not to worry about it.


----------



## minbari

Sensitivity is absolute crap though

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## ckirocz28

Toowonphyve said:


> ...so I didn't realize at first that the Dayton claims a max input of 3.2 volts. If my Pioneer HU puts out the 4V it claims is that a problem from an SQ perspective? Am I straining or clipping the signal to the Dayton right out of the gate? I'm not sure how it works but does the HU RCA's output 4V continuously or only when the HU's volume is at it's max level (40 in my case)


It only puts out 4V at max volume, and yes you WILL clip the input of the DSP if that 3.2V rating is accurate. If you have different level settings for your HU outputs you can turn those down to avoid clipping, or just don't turn the volume all the way to 40.


----------



## minbari

ckirocz28 said:


> It only puts out 4V at max volume, and yes you WILL clip the input of the DSP if that 3.2V rating is accurate. If you have different level settings for your HU outputs you can turn those down to avoid clipping, or just don't turn the volume all the way to 40.


Level setting for the HU is called "volume knob"  (sorry couldn't resist)

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## jesh4622

minbari said:


> Sensitivity is absolute crap though
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Yeah. They're also only 3.7" deep and $20. There's some nice monitors that are already using them to great effect. If you have the power to pour into them, I think they should definitively be at the top of your list.


----------



## minbari

Same price and sound really good too.

Not near the xmax, but with 6db more output. You don't need it

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...H3hIABsUyBvm-UOdlhJBimNSWofduLYxoCgAIQAvD_BwE

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## jesh4622

I have no doubt those make a great mid for a 2-way front stage. However, at low frequencies, most drivers will be xmax limited. The question was specifically for 80-400hz. 
Also if you want to compare SPL, you compare Sd. The peerless driver has nearly 50% more cone area. (87 vs 124 cm^2)


----------



## minbari

I ran them down to 55hz on 150 watts. Never over drove em. Had tons of midbass. I am just saying more than one way to skin a cat.

Sd really means nothing. They are 6db more sensitive. That means they need 4x less power

Bit off topic

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## jesh4622

Put a 93.7db driver and 82.36db driver in the same size enclosure, with the same Sd, play them to the same excursion and they will produce the same output. The only difference is the power needed to get there. 
The silver flutes you linked have a 50% disadvantage in Sd. 
In fact, let's look at your 8" silver flute. 

5mm xmax = .5cm
.5cm*214cm^2 
107cm^3 (volume of air displaced at xmax). 

The peerless driver clocks in at 105.995cm^3. It also doesn't require an enclosure to sound good or any cutting of doors.


----------



## minbari

jesh4622 said:


> Put a 93.7db driver and 82.36db driver in the same size enclosure, with the same Sd, play them to the same excursion and they will produce the same output. *The only difference is the power needed to get there. *
> 
> The silver flutes you linked have a 50% disadvantage in Sd.
> 
> In fact, let's look at your 8" silver flute.
> 
> 
> 
> 5mm xmax = .5cm
> 
> .5cm*214cm^2
> 
> 107cm^3 (volume of air displaced at xmax).
> 
> 
> 
> The peerless driver clocks in at 105.995cm^3. It also doesn't require an enclosure to sound good or any cutting of doors.


Was my point. You will need allot more power

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RRizz

minbari said:


> Sensitivity is absolute crap though
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Not to mention Nearly 4" deep.


----------



## jesh4622

And how deep is an anarchy, again?


----------



## Lanson

and what does all of that have to do with the Dayton processor?


----------



## johnny52

With the dsp-408, Is It possible to see the 3 curves of the xovers superimposed: high, mid and low?

[URL=http://s172.photobucket.com/user/johnnyboy52/media/DSP-408/Screenshot_20190319-133245_zpsid4frfxm_edit_1553017178610_zpsdfbgxsf7.jpeg.html][/URL]


----------



## reid1boys

Got the dsp today, and each time I tried to load the saved dsp setting i go the dreaded file error. This is NOT my stuff. I tried rebooting the entire thing as someone said they did earlier, and it didnt help. Right out of the box and I am extremely frustrated.


----------



## minbari

johnny52 said:


> With the dsp-408, Is It possible to see the 3 curves of the xovers superimposed: high, mid and low?
> 
> 
> 
> [URL=http://s172.photobucket.com/us...fxm_edit_1553017178610_zpsdfbgxsf7.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]


No

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## minbari

reid1boys said:


> Got the dsp today, and each time I tried to load the saved dsp setting i go the dreaded file error. This is NOT my stuff. I tried rebooting the entire thing as someone said they did earlier, and it didnt help. Right out of the box and I am extremely frustrated.


Using the pc or the phone app?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## reid1boys

minbari said:


> Using the pc or the phone app?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk



PC.... but should it matter? I see where people got the dsp delivered, used the pc app and had issues and were told to use the phone app, but should it matter?


----------



## minbari

reid1boys said:


> PC.... but should it matter? I see where people got the dsp delivered, used the pc app and had issues and were told to use the phone app, but should it matter?


It might not "should matter" but the pc app seams to have more bugs. Try the phone app

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## reid1boys

minbari said:


> It might not "should matter" but the pc app seams to have more bugs. Try the phone app
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I had no intentions of using the phone app, so I did not buy the blue tooth dongle.
In addition, the phone app allows less control than the PC app, yes?


----------



## minbari

No. They both do the same thing

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RRizz

Dayton audio has just posted a firmware update online. When questioned about the update, they responded "crossover corrections". No other info was given thus far...... Anyone have any insight??


----------



## Grinder

RRizz said:


> Dayton audio has just posted a firmware update online. When questioned about the update, they responded "crossover corrections". No other info was given thus far...... Anyone have any insight??


+1

Mine is a fairly early model that has had no updates, and I've had no problems with it. Given others' issues, I'm inclined to leave well enough alone...


----------



## GreatLaBroski

RRizz said:


> Dayton audio has just posted a firmware update online. When questioned about the update, they responded "crossover corrections". No other info was given thus far...... Anyone have any insight??


There was a review that pointed out that the DSP-408 did crossovers incorrectly. Check out this:










Something is very, very wrong with that high pass filter near 100hz (red line).

Looks like they finally fixed it. Hopefully.


----------



## karmajack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKefMt5XCWo


----------



## rton20s

minbari said:


> No. They both do the same thing
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


There are some minor differences. The only thing I can recall off the top of my head is that the Windows software allows for high and low shelf filters, the mobile apps do not.


----------



## minbari

rton20s said:


> There are some minor differences. The only thing I can recall off the top of my head is that the Windows software allows for high and low shelf filters, the mobile apps do not.


Ya, it does have that as a preset. But you can set the eq that way manually

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## reid1boys

I just got my 408 3 days ago. It would not load the presets. I got that dreaded "data,file error." I downloaded the latest version of the software and did the firmware update and it fixed the problem and I was able to immediately upload the presets into the dsp. This little dsp is pretty impressive. I cant wait to run rew and really start tweaking. My only issue and its not aDayton issue, is after I turn up master volume to a point I can really crank it, I start hearing alternator whine when there is no song playing. I hate that crap. Got to take care of that.

So I currently have 2 saved presets.... one for when I want to crank it, and one for lower volumes so I have zero alternator whine.


----------



## Lanson

reid1boys said:


> I just got my 408 3 days ago. It would not load the presets. I got that dreaded "data,file error." I downloaded the latest version of the software and did the firmware update and it fixed the problem and I was able to immediately upload the presets into the dsp. This little dsp is pretty impressive. I cant wait to run rew and really start tweaking. My only issue and its not aDayton issue, is after I turn up master volume to a point I can really crank it, I start hearing alternator whine when there is no song playing. I hate that crap. Got to take care of that.
> 
> So I currently have 2 saved presets.... one for when I want to crank it, and one for lower volumes so I have zero alternator whine.



Why not just take steps to kill the alternator whine?


----------



## reid1boys

fourthmeal said:


> Why not just take steps to kill the alternator whine?


i had zero alternator whine with the head unit and zapco sl I just replaced. There is no alternator whine until I crank up the master volume on the dsp.
All my power and grounds are the same, so Im not sure where to even look.


----------



## minbari

reid1boys said:


> i had zero alternator whine with the head unit and zapco sl I just replaced. There is no alternator whine until I crank up the master volume on the dsp.
> 
> All my power and grounds are the same, so Im not sure where to even look.


You have input gain, output gain and master volume. Just don't max them out and whine shouldn't be a problem

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## rton20s

minbari said:


> Ya, it does have that as a preset. But you can set the eq that way manually
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I'm not sure what you saying. I just double checked the mobile app on my iPhone and there is no way to implement a high/low shelf filter on the app. This can only be done from the windows software.


----------



## minbari

I mean there is nothing special about a shelf filter. Set the sliders the same it will behave the same. You just don't have a preset

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## reid1boys

minbari said:


> You have input gain, output gain and master volume. Just don't max them out and whine shouldn't be a problem
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I get that, and I already said if I turn down the master volume the alternator whine goes down, but I cant get the kind of volume I sometimes like to crank when I do that. 


I just got this thing yesterday and have not spent near the time I need to with it to deal with this. Im sure I cant get it where I want it with a little time. Alternator whine is just not acceptable.

I know I have plenty of amp power where getting the volume I want should not be a problem. The system sounds damn good right now with what is likely mediocre sounding source material.


----------



## minbari

reid1boys said:


> *I get that, and I already said if I turn down the master volume the alternator whine goes down, but I cant get the kind of volume I sometimes like to crank when I do that. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just got this thing yesterday and have not spent near the time I need to with it to deal with this. Im sure I cant get it where I want it with a little time. Alternator whine is just not acceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> I know I have plenty of amp power where getting the volume I want should not be a problem. The system sounds damn good right now with what is likely mediocre sounding source material.


Exactly! You now have another 10-20db of gain. That noise was prolly there before but you couldn't hear it.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## kanadian-kaos

You can always hook it up to your home system and see if the noise is present, if not, then it is not the DSP.

Also, are you using the additional master volume knob? I saw a youtube video stating that it added noise into the system somehow. If so, just unplug it and set the volume through the software.


----------



## johnny52

johnny52 said:


> With the dsp-408, Is It possible to see the 3 curves of the xovers superimposed: high, mid and low?
> 
> [URL=http://s172.photobucket.com/user/johnnyboy52/media/DSP-408/Screenshot_20190319-133245_zpsid4frfxm_edit_1553017178610_zpsdfbgxsf7.jpeg.html][/URL]


They must add it in the next update. Essential.


----------



## Spud2388

Hi guys, quick question. I've been using the dsp for a couple months now and really like it, except one thing. On start up for my truck, when the dsp turns on, it seems to go through a series of audio changes that are very noticeable. At first, its loud, like it has no level adjustments applied at all, then the level adjustments kick in and it gets quieter to normal listening level, but there is no EQ to it. Then the EQ applies and I can hear the time alignment kick in and move my front stage across the windshield. All of this happens withing a few seconds. The most annoying part is initial volume. I have ran it off my PAC ch41 remote and then switched it to ACC power to see if it would turn on and set up before my radio would send it any signal, but no go. Any ideas? Anyone have this issue at all? Its like it needs about 2 seconds to get booted up all adjustments set and my radio is sending it power too early and I'm hearing the effects of it boot up.


----------



## minbari

Spud2388 said:


> Hi guys, quick question. I've been using the dsp for a couple months now and really like it, except one thing. On start up for my truck, when the dsp turns on, it seems to go through a series of audio changes that are very noticeable. At first, its loud, like it has no level adjustments applied at all, then the level adjustments kick in and it gets quieter to normal listening level, but there is no EQ to it. Then the EQ applies and I can hear the time alignment kick in and move my front stage across the windshield. All of this happens withing a few seconds. The most annoying part is initial volume. I have ran it off my PAC ch41 remote and then switched it to ACC power to see if it would turn on and set up before my radio would send it any signal, but no go. Any ideas? Anyone have this issue at all? Its like it needs about 2 seconds to get booted up all adjustments set and my radio is sending it power too early and I'm hearing the effects of it boot up.


Easiest thing would be to delay your radio coming on or use a delay relay on the input of the dsp.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Spud2388

minbari said:


> Easiest thing would be to delay your radio coming on or use a delay relay on the input of the dsp.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I was leaning towards that but my radio is the factory 8.4 in a 17 Ram, so it controls everything (it can't even be turned off). I guess I could delay the PAC CH41 (converts the factory audio signal to RCAs) and leave the dsp on ACC power so it gets booted up while the PAC delays the signal to it. Never dealt with a delay relay. Will have to look into that.


----------



## minbari

Spud2388 said:


> I was leaning towards that but my radio is the factory 8.4 in a 17 Ram, so it controls everything (it can't even be turned off). I guess I could delay the PAC CH41 (converts the factory audio signal to RCAs) and leave the dsp on ACC power so it gets booted up while the PAC delays the signal to it. Never dealt with a delay relay. Will have to look into that.


They work just like a normal relay, it just has a knob on it to set delay on or off. So delay the acc signal for the convertor would work as as it doesn't maker funny noises when it comes on.
Honestly wire the output(audio) from the convertor to the relay(s) to inhibit signal fir 3-5 secs while the dsp boots

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Spud2388

minbari said:


> They work just like a normal relay, it just has a knob on it to set delay on or off. So delay the acc signal for the convertor would work as as it doesn't maker funny noises when it comes on.
> Honestly wire the output(audio) from the convertor to the relay(s) to inhibit signal fir 3-5 secs while the dsp boots
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Thank man. You have a link to any specific ones?


----------



## minbari

Spud2388 said:


> Thank man. You have a link to any specific ones?


This would work. Mode 1

Mini Timer Time Delay Relay .1 Sec to 400 days. 3V 12V 18V 5A. Power on or Off Delay, Cycling and More https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PD65UGA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_TfSLCbFT6ZF44

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RRizz

Mine has done this since day 1, only difference is that my radio takes a few seconds to boot up, and the DSP "pops and clicks" for lack of a better term audibly through the speakers one at a time prior to the music turning on. Slightly annoying, but F#@k it was $150. I can live with it in my pickup. If it had been in my "serious" audio car, it would have been yanked instantly.
That being said, I have not spent the time to really work on fine tuning my amps gain structures, so that may be a contributing factor. It just doesnt bother me enough to be a concern, and time to play with it has been short lately. Most likely I will do some digging over the summer and try to correct it.


----------



## Kocil

Dear all. Another happy DSP-408 user here.
But I just saw there is a firmware update at the homepage

Dayton Audio DSP-408 4x8 DSP Digital Signal Processor for Home and Car Audio

But no information what is changed. Care to share ?


----------



## Kocil

Dear all.
Using the DSP-408, I want to construct the hafler matrix Matrix Surround for Music.


I have been looking to the mixer setting, 
the DSP easily add the L+R signal for the center speaker.
However, there is no way to inverse the input.
Thus I have no idea, how to produce the L-R and R-L signals
for the surround speaker.

Please advice.
Thank you


----------



## rton20s

Kocil said:


> Dear all.
> Using the DSP-408, I want to construct the hafler matrix Matrix Surround for Music.
> 
> 
> I have been looking to the mixer setting,
> the DSP easily add the L+R signal for the center speaker.
> However, there is no way to inverse the input.
> Thus I have no idea, how to produce the L-R and R-L signals
> for the surround speaker.
> 
> Please advice.
> Thank you


Unfortunately, this is not an option with the DSP-408.


----------



## Kocil

rton20s said:


> Unfortunately, this is not an option with the DSP-408.


I'm thingking about a trick.
My HU has the RCA and also the speaker level outputs.
Can we mix it to the DSP-408, like :

ch-1 = from RCA L
ch-2 = from RCA R
ch-3 = from speaker level L, inverted
ch-4 = from speaker level R, inverted

Then in the mixer we add (ch-1 + ch-4) to get the (L-R)
and (ch-2 + ch-3) to get the (R-L).

Theoretically, it will work, won't it ?
I just afraid, is there any electronics consequence
(burn, ground loop, etc) ?


----------



## nate0

Like mentioned above, how do we find or know the change log for the latest fw update? I believe it is rev 3.19


----------



## minbari

Kocil said:


> I'm thingking about a trick.
> 
> My HU has the RCA and also the speaker level outputs.
> 
> Can we mix it to the DSP-408, like :
> 
> 
> 
> ch-1 = from RCA L
> 
> ch-2 = from RCA R
> 
> ch-3 = from speaker level L, inverted
> 
> ch-4 = from speaker level R, inverted
> 
> 
> 
> Then in the mixer we add (ch-1 + ch-4) to get the (L-R)
> 
> and (ch-2 + ch-3) to get the (R-L).
> 
> 
> 
> Theoretically, it will work, won't it ?
> 
> I just afraid, is there any electronics consequence
> 
> (burn, ground loop, etc) ?


It should work. I have mine set up similar (without the inverted ch3,4)

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## karmajack

nate0 said:


> Like mentioned above, how do we find or know the change log for the latest fw update? I believe it is rev 3.19


I don't know if or where there may be an official change log. This is the only pseudo official Dayton comment I've seen about what changes were made...

"This firmware corrects the crossover slopes.

The newest software address an error message bug and a high shelf filter issue." 

I have not updated mine yet.


----------



## nate0

karmajack said:


> I don't know if or where there may be an official change log. This is the only pseudo official Dayton comment I've seen about what changes were made...
> 
> "This firmware corrects the crossover slopes.
> 
> The newest software address an error message bug and a high shelf filter issue."
> 
> I have not updated mine yet.


Ok thanks. That is more than most know of.
I am wondering if during the update over USB from PC it displays the changes in a window maybe, but I am not willing to flash it just to see what is updated or not.


----------



## Kocil

minbari said:


> It should work. I have mine set up similar (without the inverted ch3,4)
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Thanks for the confirmation.
But, how do you get the -L and -R signals without the inverted ch3,4,?


----------



## minbari

Kocil said:


> Thanks for the confirmation.
> 
> But, how do you get the -L and -R signals without the inverted ch3,4,?


With this dsp you can't

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kocil

minbari said:


> With this dsp you can't
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I just tried two RCA based tricks for surround speakers as follows:

Connections:
HU-L --> input-1 
HU-R --> input-2
HU-Sub --> input-3
DSP-8 --> Input-4

*1. Inverted Sub from HU
*
My HU has RCA output for subwoofer, which can be inverted.
The signal is mono (L+R). 
So by inverting it, the (-L-R) signal is sent to the DSP input-3.
In the DSP, we can:
- mix (L) + 50% (-L-R) to get the (50%L - 50%R)
- mix (R) + 50% (-L-R) to get the (50%R - 50%L)

*2. Inverted Loop Back
*
Bypass the (L) signal to DSP output 8, and inverted it,
to get the (-L) signal.
Loop back this signel to the DSP input-4.
Therefore, we can:
- mix (R) + (-L) to get the (R-L) signal
- mix (R) + (-L), then invert it, to get the (L-R) signal

Both seem to be working.


----------



## wsherring

reid1boys said:


> Got the dsp today, and each time I tried to load the saved dsp setting i go the dreaded file error. This is NOT my stuff. I tried rebooting the entire thing as someone said they did earlier, and it didnt help. Right out of the box and I am extremely frustrated.


I had the same problem. I finally figured out it only happens if I enter settings and save them with the 408 disconnected from the computer. When I then tried to load the settings, the 408 would always crash. It works fine when I adjust the settings and save them (to pc file or the DSP) with the 408 connected to the pc.

Also, this may have been fixed with the latest firmware, but I haven't tested it that way


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## johnny52

No matter the price you pay for, $5, $50, $150, $1500. there is no reason for a manufacturer to release a product with so many glitches. Dayton put on the buyers the responsability to test the product and report him the problems via forums. At least, release more firmwares on a regular basis.


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## phroenips

For what it's worth, I just got a DSP-408 installed this weekend. First thing I did was update firmware, and I haven't had a single problem or glitch with setting it all up and tuning.


----------



## Kocil

minbari said:


> It should work. I have mine set up similar (without the inverted ch3,4)
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Dear all.
I've tried this configuration to achieve (R-L) and (L-R) signals:
ch-1 = from RCA L
ch-2 = from RCA R
ch-3 = from speaker level L, inverted
ch-4 = from speaker level R, inverted

However, the noise from ch-3 and ch-4 are quite significant,
apparently from the internal HU amplifier.

So I'm wondering.
Can we invert the low level signal (RCA) by crossing the cable ?
Of course, some custom soldering will be involved.


----------



## minbari

Kocil said:


> Dear all.
> 
> I've tried this configuration to achieve (R-L) and (L-R) signals:
> 
> ch-1 = from RCA L
> 
> ch-2 = from RCA R
> 
> ch-3 = from speaker level L, inverted
> 
> ch-4 = from speaker level R, inverted
> 
> 
> 
> However, the noise from ch-3 and ch-4 are quite significant,
> 
> apparently from the internal HU amplifier.
> 
> 
> 
> *So I'm wondering.
> 
> Can we invert the low level signal (RCA) by crossing the cable ?*
> 
> Of course, some custom soldering will be involved.


Only if you have differential inputs. Other wise you are just putting the signal on ground.
Invetering the signal is swapping it in time by 180° not really swapping polarity

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kocil

minbari said:


> Only if you have differential inputs. Other wise you are just putting the signal on ground.
> Invetering the signal is swapping it in time by 180° not really swapping polarity


Does the DSP-408 has differential inputs ?


----------



## minbari

Kocil said:


> Does the DSP-408 has differential inputs ?


I don't believe it does

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Kyleo91

looking to order the dsp shortly is the wired remote and bt module worth the extra cost? i have a laptop i can tune with.


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## minbari

Kyleo91 said:


> looking to order the dsp shortly is the wired remote and bt module worth the extra cost? i have a laptop i can tune with.


Get the BT module for sure! You cab stream to the dsp and tube with your phone. I have never used the pc app Because you can do everything with your phone. If you use more than 1 preset you can switch them too
The volume module is handy if you are gonna connect the dsp to something that doesn't have a volume knob. Got can recall presets with it too

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## mfenske

Happy to report that I received my Dayton DSP Saturday and after spending a little time with the manual it works exactly as expected and no hiccups with its operation/performance. I haven't really done any tweaking yet-just copied the settings from my MiniDSP and sounds pretty good.


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## Curt D

Just installed the DSP-408. I almost lost my sh!t after a little troubleshooting for a buzz with an intermittent louder hum. Luckily, before I got to deep in it, I consulted.... the internet lol. In this thread is where I found it may be the wired remote and that’s exactly what it was! It’s outta here. Dead silent now...ahhhh.


----------



## minbari

Curt D said:


> Just installed the DSP-408. I almost lost my sh!t after a little troubleshooting for a buzz with an intermittent louder hum. Luckily, before I got to deep in it, I consulted.... the internet lol. In this thread is where I found it may be the wired remote and that’s exactly what it was! It’s outta here. Dead silent now...ahhhh.


Lame! Gonna replace it?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Curt D

minbari said:


> Lame! Gonna replace it?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Na... I'll just use the phone app. I'm not going to pull everything apart just to run the wire again. If it had a plug at each end I may have tried another. 
I do like the DSP though.


----------



## minbari

I thought about getting one just for the preset recall. But don't want a pig squeal

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gramps

So I’m pretty dyslexic with dsp and really technical stuff, i have posted on this thread before but i have a few new questions regarding this dsp.

I have an old alpine H/U with 2xpre outs, it also has 2x Ai Net ports, one which i will use as a Aux input for my ph, the other either a stacker or whatever and no built in amp

I have tons of channels of amps to choose from.

I plan on running a set of 5 1/4 components and a 6 1/2 woofer up front as a 3way off a 4 ch.

I am using a single 10” sub in sealed box and some rear fill, 

Here are my questions, 

Which is the best way to set up the system with the dsp so that i have full control over the fronts and be able to fade the rear fill out??

Would using the front rca from my H/U into the dsp to run the fronts and rear fill and then the rear rca directly to the sub amp work well??

Or would the dsp be able to run the whole system effectively??

Sorry for what may seem like a very simple question for those in the know, but in the past my setups have always been very simple, 4ch to run fronts and sub, rear fill off the H/U and faded out.

This is my very 1st time with a 3way (well in the audio world ) and dsp, and all my previous H/U had in built amps with non fading pre outs

Thanks for the help.

Krem


----------



## minbari

Gramps said:


> So I’m pretty dyslexic with dsp and really technical stuff, i have posted on this thread before but i have a few new questions regarding this dsp.
> 
> I have an old alpine H/U with 2xpre outs, it also has 2x Ai Net ports, one which i will use as a Aux input for my ph, the other either a stacker or whatever and no built in amp
> 
> I have tons of channels of amps to choose from.
> 
> I plan on running a set of 5 1/4 components and a 6 1/2 woofer up front as a 3way off a 4 ch.
> 
> I am using a single 10” sub in sealed box and some rear fill,
> 
> Here are my questions,
> 
> Which is the best way to set up the system with the dsp so that i have full control over the fronts and be able to fade the rear fill out??


you have 4 inputs and 8 outputs. you can map ANY input to ANY output, so for this you would set input 1 and 2 for output 1-6 and input 3,4 to output 7,8. when you fade on the HU it will fade front to rear.


> Would using the front rca from my H/U into the dsp to run the fronts and rear fill and then the rear rca directly to the sub amp work well??


I wouldnt, you will not have any EQ, xover or TA for the sub.


> Or would the dsp be able to run the whole system effectively??


unless you want a sub knob, you would need to have it on the amp.


> Sorry for what may seem like a very simple question for those in the know, but in the past my setups have always been very simple, 4ch to run fronts and sub, rear fill off the H/U and faded out.
> 
> This is my very 1st time with a 3way (well in the audio world ) and dsp, and all my previous H/U had in built amps with non fading pre outs
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Krem


* 1)Do you care about having a sub bass level knob?
2) Do you need to be able to fade from the HU or do you just want to be able to control rear level relative to front?*


----------



## Gramps

minbari said:


> you have 4 inputs and 8 outputs. you can map ANY input to ANY output, so for this you would set input 1 and 2 for output 1-6 and input 3,4 to output 7,8. when you fade on the HU it will fade front to rear.
> 
> I wouldnt, you will not have any EQ, xover or TA for the sub.
> 
> unless you want a sub knob, you would need to have it on the amp.
> 
> * 1)Do you care about having a sub bass level knob?
> 2) Do you need to be able to fade from the HU or do you just want to be able to control rear level relative to front?*


Hi, thanks for your quick reply.

1stly, i dont want or need a sub knob, i just want to be able to fade out the rear speakers (not the sub) as to not wreck my front stage, just enough for ambience.

I dont need to be able to fade it from the H/U, it will basically be set and forget, but i will use the IOS app so that i can adjust it if i need to.

All my amps have xover so the sub would have that, just no eq or TA, if i ran it directly from my H/U, but by the sounds of it, the dsp will suit my needs, i just wasn’t sure on only having 4 inputs into it.

Cheers again, appreciate it.

Krem


----------



## minbari

Gramps said:


> Hi, thanks for your quick reply.
> 
> 
> 
> 1stly, i dont want or need a sub knob, i just want to be able to fade out the rear speakers (not the sub) as to not wreck my front stage, just enough for ambience.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont need to be able to fade it from the H/U, it will basically be set and forget, but i will use the IOS app so that i can adjust it if i need to.
> 
> 
> 
> All my amps have xover so the sub would have that, just no eq or TA, if i ran it directly from my H/U, but by the sounds of it, the dsp will suit my needs, i just wasn’t sure on only having 4 inputs into it.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers again, appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Krem


Then you should be golden. Even with only 2 of the inputs, you can accomplish what you are saying. Each input has a level and each output. So getting the mix you want is easy.
With the phone app you can control those levels on the fly, so should be easy to do what you want.

If you decide later you want a sub level control would be very easy to use the hu fader as a sub level. (Would just fade between main and sub through the 4 inputs)

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Iamsecond

Another thing to consider, unless I am reading the post wrong or you may not even care, is that you will not be able to properly time align the front stage using component set on 2 channels and a 6.5 on the other two channels. To use the dsp to its full potential you really need an amp channel per speaker. A better option might be to run the 5.25 component system active with your amp, or run the tweet amd 6.5 actively together. Time alignment and level control for each speaker makes a huge difference. You can do it the way you are talking about but doing what I suggested will give you the performance and listening environment that the dsp is designed to provide. Just a few thoughts. Also, maybe start a new thread about your system.


----------



## minbari

Iamsecond said:


> Another thing to consider, unless I am reading the post wrong or you may not even care, is that you will not be able to properly time align the front stage using component set on 2 channels and a 6.5 on the other two channels. To use the dsp to its full potential you really need an amp channel per speaker. A better option might be to run the 5.25 component system active with your amp, or run the tweet amd 6.5 actively together. Time alignment and level control for each speaker makes a huge difference. You can do it the way you are talking about but doing what I suggested will give you the performance and listening environment that the dsp is designed to provide. Just a few thoughts. Also, maybe start a new thread about your system.


Very much depends how far apart they are. If the component set is very close together, it could be timed together. If not you would have to make some concessions

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## Iamsecond

Good point


----------



## Gramps

Thanks again for the replies, 

I didn’t really think about the T/A side of things being seperate :blush:

But i am planning to install the front stage pretty close however not all on the same angles, I’m not really sure if that make any difference or not tho, see my pic for some of my install idea’s for the fronts, 

Krem


----------



## soundstreamer

I finally had the time today to work on installing my Dayton DSP but I have ran into some problems. This was a direct swap in from my Cadence DSP and I did the firmware update before connecting any of my rca's. 

My biggest problem is that I have no sound coming from any of my speakers. The DSP power light is coming on and my amps are turning on as well. I connected my laptop to the DSP and spent some time looking through the settings but have not had any luck finding a wrong setting. It is for sure possible I might have overlooked something though.

Second problem is the app for my Samsung Note 8 will not work with the DSP. I can pair the phone to the DSP but when I open the app it acts like it is trying to connect but then it crashes. The app works perfectly fine when it's not trying to connect to the DSP.

Third problem is I copied the settings I had from my Cadence DSP into the program on my laptop while it was not connected to the Dayton and then saved it to my desktop. When I connect my laptop to the DSP and open the saved file from my desktop it looks like its working fine. I then save those settings in the DSP itself. But the next time I connect my laptop to the DSP I get an error saying "File Data Error" Click yes to clear the current data. Click no to exit the program.

The last problem that I have ran across so far is that the only channel that has the "link" option is channel 8. When I was working on the DSP settings from the file saved to the desktop all channels had the link option. But after doing the firmware update and connecting my laptop all the other channels link options have disappeared. 

Sorry for my laundry list of issues but I'm pretty disappointed so far as I figured this would take only a few minutes to do and I have now spent all day trying to have any sound play at all. I could use any help that anyone could provide.


----------



## Curt D

soundstreamer said:


> I finally had the time today to work on installing my Dayton DSP but I have ran into some problems. This was a direct swap in from my Cadence DSP and I did the firmware update before connecting any of my rca's.
> 
> My biggest problem is that I have no sound coming from any of my speakers. The DSP power light is coming on and my amps are turning on as well. I connected my laptop to the DSP and spent some time looking through the settings but have not had any luck finding a wrong setting. It is for sure possible I might have overlooked something though.
> 
> Make sure the inputs are clicked on and levels are not set at zero. I had no sound when I fired mine up the first time.


----------



## Zardnok

soundstreamer said:


> Second problem is the app for my Samsung Note 8 will not work with the DSP. I can pair the phone to the DSP but when I open the app it acts like it is trying to connect but then it crashes. The app works perfectly fine when it's not trying to connect to the DSP.


Not sure if this is in anyway connected, but I also have a Note 8. I have not installed my Dayton DSP yet, but I do have a Dayton DTA-Pro amp in my kitchen and yesterday, my Note 8 would not connect to the amp via Bluetooth. It would try to connect and then pop a message up a bit later saying failed. 

I am wondering if there is a software update or something to fix the issue or even what the issue is.


----------



## soundstreamer

Well I made some progress today with my DSP. As CurtD suggested my input levels were set to zero so that got most of my speakers back to working and then I also realized one of the speaker wires came out from the amp while I was installing the DSP. So now I have sound again.

What is really weird is when I got home from work today I tried the app again on my phone and it works perfectly now. I didn't change anything else so I dont know why it's working but I will take it. Plus the ability to link channels is working as well.

I definitely have to some level matching as the volume level is different from my Cadence but I dont have any noise and so far it is sounding pretty good without doing any EQ yet.


----------



## tonksie93

I have been having some trouble with my DSP. When my headunit is connected to the RCA inputs there is a rather loud buzz coming from my speakers, does not matter what volume my headunit is at or even muted. If i turn the main volume down on the DSP the buzz gets quieter, when at volume 30/66 the buzz is not noticeable but then the output voltage is too low for me to set my amplifier gains correctly as the gain adjustment maxes out.

I have connected my headunit outputs directly to my amplifiers and there is no noise so them components are fine. I have tried a ground loop isolator too and this has made no difference.

The only thing i am thinking is that my headunit outputs a BALANCED signal, can the DSP accept a balanced RCA signal? Or is mine faulty?


----------



## Curt D

tonksie93 said:


> I have been having some trouble with my DSP. When my headunit is connected to the RCA inputs there is a rather loud buzz coming from my speakers, does not matter what volume my headunit is at or even muted. If i turn the main volume down on the DSP the buzz gets quieter, when at volume 30/66 the buzz is not noticeable but then the output voltage is too low for me to set my amplifier gains correctly as the gain adjustment maxes out.
> 
> I have connected my headunit outputs directly to my amplifiers and there is no noise so them components are fine. I have tried a ground loop isolator too and this has made no difference.
> 
> The only thing i am thinking is that my headunit outputs a BALANCED signal, can the DSP accept a balanced RCA signal? Or is mine faulty?


If you are using the remote....unplug it. I had the same thing. I tossed it in the garbage.
WARNING...turn down the volume on remote before unplugging. I didn't and **** was full blast when I turned the head unit back on.


----------



## tonksie93

Thanks for the reply but using no remote, just the USB dongle.


----------



## cdlowe30907

I purchased the Dayton dsp.
Got everything hooked up and working.
Trying to set my t/a per tracelite.com
Trying to move to center point about 6”.
The tracelite site gives the m/s and db to adjust.
It gives a positive and negative.
Would I just chane the source input values ?
If so, I think it only does negatives/cuts not adding/positive.
Do I just cut all the db fron one side ?
Not sure what to do


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## RAF2018336

Hoping I can get some help with this setup as I’m out of ideas. I have four inputs going to the dsp and 4 outputs (only have woofers and widebanders at the moment). When I try setting up the dsp, I can only get sound from input 1&2 but 3&4 are silent no matter what I’ve tried. I can still get sound to the four outputs by choosing only inputs 1&2 but then Both sets of speakers play both sets of the frequencies (widebanders play both higher frequencies and lower frequencies, etc) can anyone think of anyway to get inputs 3&4 working


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## nyquistrate

RAF2018336 said:


> Hoping I can get some help with this setup as I’m out of ideas. I have four inputs going to the dsp and 4 outputs (only have woofers and widebanders at the moment). When I try setting up the dsp, I can only get sound from input 1&2 but 3&4 are silent no matter what I’ve tried. I can still get sound to the four outputs by choosing only inputs 1&2 but then Both sets of speakers play both sets of the frequencies (widebanders play both higher frequencies and lower frequencies, etc) can anyone think of anyway to get inputs 3&4 working


Did you assign channels 3&4 on the input mixer?


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## minbari

cdlowe30907 said:


> I purchased the Dayton dsp.
> Got everything hooked up and working.
> Trying to set my t/a per tracelite.com
> Trying to move to center point about 6”.
> The tracelite site gives the m/s and db to adjust.
> It gives a positive and negative.
> Would I just chane the source input values ?
> If so, I think it only does negatives/cuts not adding/positive.
> Do I just cut all the db fron one side ?
> Not sure what to do


If you are setting up T/A that is for each speaker independently. You would use the output values. That negative is also not an absolute value, its relative to the current value

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## minbari

RAF2018336 said:


> Hoping I can get some help with this setup as I’m out of ideas. I have four inputs going to the dsp and 4 outputs (only have woofers and widebanders at the moment). When I try setting up the dsp, I can only get sound from input 1&2 but 3&4 are silent no matter what I’ve tried. I can still get sound to the four outputs by choosing only inputs 1&2 but then Both sets of speakers play both sets of the frequencies (widebanders play both higher frequencies and lower frequencies, etc) can anyone think of anyway to get inputs 3&4 working


Not sure what you mean. If you select input 1,2 for outputs 1-4, you still have xover, eq, ta for each output. Input has zero to do with what the output is tuned for.

In fact I wouldn't use 4 inputs for 4 outputs. Just use input 1,2 for all 4 outputs and tune away

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## RAF2018336

Did you assign channels 3&4 on the input mixer?[/QUOTE]

Yes input 1-4 are paired with output 1-4 respectively


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## RAF2018336

I can’t figure how to reply to people here... yes I paired inputs 1-4 with the respective outputs


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## RAF2018336

Yes Ive assigned inputs 1-4 with outputs 1-4 respectively


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## RAF2018336

minbari said:


> Not sure what you mean. If you select input 1,2 for outputs 1-4, you still have xover, eq, ta for each output. Input has zero to do with what the output is tuned for.
> 
> In fact I wouldn't use 4 inputs for 4 outputs. Just use input 1,2 for all 4 outputs and tune away
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


So what I tried was giving the left tweeter/woofer input one and then output 1 & 3 repectiveley. I would set different xover for each but when I set the volume up both speakers played into the other ones frequencies. I even set up the xovers with a big gap between them and the tweeters still played the woofers frequencies.


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## minbari

RAF2018336 said:


> So what I tried was giving the left tweeter/woofer input one and then output 1 & 3 repectiveley. I would set different xover for each but when I set the volume up both speakers played into the other ones frequencies. I even set up the xovers with a big gap between them and the tweeters still played the woofers frequencies.


Then start over. Only connect one rca at a time until that speaker is correct. You aren't setting something right

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## RAF2018336

minbari said:


> Then start over. Only connect one rca at a time until that speaker is correct. You aren't setting something right
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Alright I'll try again.


----------



## minbari

RAF2018336 said:


> Alright I'll try again.


One thing I forgot to ask. Are inputting from rca or speaker level?

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## RAF2018336

minbari said:


> One thing I forgot to ask. Are inputting from rca or speaker level?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


RCA input


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## tonksie93

What is the max main volume before the DSP distorts??


----------



## DLFPV

I have one of these on the way for a build im doing. Is it possible to use it as a subsonic filter? Sorry this is my 1st dsp, Been out of the audio game for a long time.


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## minbari

tonksie93 said:


> What is the max main volume before the DSP distorts??


Depends on input volume, eq setting. I have mine set to 60. It's clean

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## minbari

DLFPV said:


> I have one of these on the way for a build im doing. Is it possible to use it as a subsonic filter? Sorry this is my 1st dsp, Been out of the audio game for a long time.


Yes. The xover goes as low as 20hz

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## DavidRam

This thread is becoming the new MS8 thread...


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## minbari

DavidRam said:


> This thread is becoming the new MS8 thread...


Lol ya. Workout the death squeal and auto-snafus

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## asianinvasion21

minbari said:


> Not sure what you mean. If you select input 1,2 for outputs 1-4, you still have xover, eq, ta for each output. Input has zero to do with what the output is tuned for.
> 
> In fact I wouldn't use 4 inputs for 4 outputs. Just use input 1,2 for all 4 outputs and tune away
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Technically, if you run rear fill you will lose your front and rear fader. I always run two sets of rca's if I run rear fill.


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## minbari

asianinvasion21 said:


> Technically, if you run rear fill you will lose your front and rear fader. I always run two sets of rca's if I run rear fill.


I never run rears, aol hasn't been a consideration

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## cdlowe30907

I’ve got a few questions regarding setting up the dsp.
On the t/a setup, set the furtherest speaker at 0 and set the other speakers by the subtracting the difference from the furthest speaker.
ie. The furthest is 60”, the FL is 45”, so the distance for t/a would be 15”.
Next Question is the dsp main volume.
Ive set the amp gains per Ohm’s law using the h/u.
I added the dsp afterwards.
At what level do I set the main volume on the dsp to match where the amps gains were set and not to gain any distortion.
I think the default volume was -20db.


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## ErickSaint

So has anybody actually verified the 3.2v input voltage of the Dayton? Or is this spec wrong? It seems pretty low considering the outputs of a lot of modern heads. I'm probably going to be using it for my first DSP build. It's a factory integration because I can't get rid of my factory head. Low level outputs on my radio are putting out about 6.5v unclipped at full volume. Head volume is under halfway to get that 3.2v. Only doing a low power system with micro amps. It seems that at half volume with that much unclipped signal available I'm leaving a lot of power on the table with the Dayton if I'm overdriving the input.


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## minbari

cdlowe30907 said:


> I’ve got a few questions regarding setting up the dsp.
> On the t/a setup, set the furtherest speaker at 0 and set the other speakers by the subtracting the difference from the furthest speaker.
> ie. The furthest is 60”, the FL is 45”, so the distance for t/a would be 15”.
> Next Question is the dsp main volume.
> Ive set the amp gains per Ohm’s law using the h/u.
> I added the dsp afterwards.
> At what level do I set the main volume on the dsp to match where the amps gains were set and not to gain any distortion.
> I think the default volume was -20db.


42

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## minbari

ErickSaint said:


> So has anybody actually verified the 3.2v input voltage of the Dayton? Or is this spec wrong? It seems pretty low considering the outputs of a lot of modern heads. I'm probably going to be using it for my first DSP build. It's a factory integration because I can't get rid of my factory head. Low level outputs on my radio are putting out about 6.5v unclipped at full volume. Head volume is under halfway to get that 3.2v. Only doing a low power system with micro amps. It seems that at half volume with that much unclipped signal available I'm leaving a lot of power on the table with the Dayton if I'm overdriving the input.


That's not how it works. If you can fully drive the input at 1/2 volume then just don't go above 1/2. (At lower volume sources you will have room to turn it up)


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## richardar6

Need some thoughts on something I'm thinking. Before I installed the Dayton 408, I had an Audiocontrol DQ-61 which actually wasn't bad, but it had rudimentary/ limited time alignment, no crossovers and being under the seat meant no adjusting the eq on the fly. What I'm wondering, is if it's possible to use the AudioControl DQ-61's front and rear EQ to flatten the factory radio's crappy equalized signal (Uconnect Jeep radio) before it even gets to the Dayton? I would also use the Audiocontrol as the LOC, and send that low level signal to the DSP 408's preamp inputs. But the main reason I would go through the hassle to begin with is to send the DQ-61's sub channel directly to my sub amp. I could actually use the ACR remote knob for a bass boost (When you don't need Accubass, you can use it as a bass boost instead) which is what I need. I understand people frown on that, but I don't listen to "Albums", I listen to shuffled songs, spanning several decades, and numerous genres. All recorded with differing bass levels. So when an 80's rock song ends, and the next track is Decaf, I need IMMEDIATE control of the bass- not the 3-4 sec delay the Dayton gives me changing presets. Also, the preout voltage from the DQ-61 is alot more than what the Dayton can put out.

So are there any benefits of sending a cleaned up, de-equalized, line level signal to the Dayton as long as I'm not introducing noise into the system with the added component? I still need that bass knob and I already own the DQ-61 anyway.

Any knowledge or helpful insight is much appreciated.


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## minbari

richardar6 said:


> Need some thoughts on something I'm thinking. Before I installed the Dayton 408, I had an Audiocontrol DQ-61 which actually wasn't bad, but it had rudimentary/ limited time alignment, no crossovers and being under the seat meant no adjusting the eq on the fly. What I'm wondering, is if it's possible to use the AudioControl DQ-61's front and rear EQ to flatten the factory radio's crappy equalized signal (Uconnect Jeep radio) before it even gets to the Dayton? I would also use the Audiocontrol as the LOC, and send that low level signal to the DSP 408's preamp inputs. But the main reason I would go through the hassle to begin with is to send the DQ-61's sub channel directly to my sub amp. I could actually use the ACR remote knob for a bass boost (When you don't need Accubass, you can use it as a bass boost instead) which is what I need. I understand people frown on that, but I don't listen to "Albums", I listen to shuffled songs, spanning several decades, and numerous genres. All recorded with differing bass levels. So when an 80's rock song ends, and the next track is Decaf, I need IMMEDIATE control of the bass- not the 3-4 sec delay the Dayton gives me changing presets. Also, the preout voltage from the DQ-61 is alot more than what the Dayton can put out.
> 
> 
> 
> So are there any benefits of sending a cleaned up, de-equalized, line level signal to the Dayton as long as I'm not introducing noise into the system with the added component? I still need that bass knob and I already own the DQ-61 anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Any knowledge or helpful insight is much appreciated.


I do something similar with an lc2. Only thing I would change is run the bass output into one set of inputs on the 408 so you have eq/xover ability.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## Rolow

Thought I would put this here just in case some one is interested. 
Five star car stereo did a video on the Dayton dsp-408

https://youtu.be/p4m5xXc6ugU


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## ErickSaint

minbari said:


> That's not how it works. If you can fully drive the input at 1/2 volume then just don't go above 1/2. (At lower volume sources you will have room to turn it up)/QUOTE]
> 
> Gotcha. Just figured I would try to see what others were doing. I've read in a few places that people were driving the input with more than 3.2v, one of those in this thread someplace of a guy using an LC2i at a what seemed to read like the full 9 volts.
> 
> I asked the same question in the Five Star chat posted above. Dean said they were sending signal from the factory head in the test lab car without clipping, but didn't really say what that voltage is or high he was with the volume.
> 
> My bluetooth source level is super low by comparison because it has to go through a BT aux adapter.


----------



## minbari

ErickSaint said:


> minbari said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not how it works. If you can fully drive the input at 1/2 volume then just don't go above 1/2. (At lower volume sources you will have room to turn it up)/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha. Just figured I would try to see what others were doing. I've read in a few places that people were driving the input with more than 3.2v, one of those in this thread someplace of a guy using an LC2i at a what seemed to read like the full 9 volts.
> 
> 
> 
> I asked the same question in the Five Star chat posted above. Dean said they were sending signal from the factory head in the test lab car without clipping, but didn't really say what that voltage is or high he was with the volume.
> 
> 
> 
> My bluetooth source level is super low by comparison because it has to go through a BT aux adapter.
> 
> 
> 
> You are not really going to hurt the input with too much voltage. It will just hit the suplly rails and start clipping. With HU output, 408 in 408 out and amp in and out. It can be a challenge to find what you are clipping.
> 
> I use an lc2i as well. Its turned about half way and I see no issues
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## ErickSaint

minbari said:


> ErickSaint said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are not really going to hurt the input with too much voltage. It will just hit the suplly rails and start clipping. With HU output, 408 in 408 out and amp in and out. It can be a challenge to find what you are clipping.
> 
> I use an lc2i as well. Its turned about half way and I see no issues
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, thanks for the info. I haven't gotten to that part of my build yet, it will be getting added over the summer. But when I get to setting everything up I'll be rechecking the gain structure for clipping as I go down the line. I've got a scopemeter so hopefully it'll be a bit easier to spot trouble. My first crack at a DSP install, so it's kinda got me buried in reading about so many things.
Click to expand...


----------



## minbari

ErickSaint said:


> minbari said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, thanks for the info. I haven't gotten to that part of my build yet, it will be getting added over the summer. But when I get to setting everything up I'll be rechecking the gain structure for clipping as I go down the line. I've got a scopemeter so hopefully it'll be a bit easier to spot trouble. My first crack at a DSP install, so it's kinda got me buried in reading about so many things.
> 
> 
> 
> Just don't go too crazy with the scope. Your ears will tell you more
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## richardar6

minbari said:


> I do something similar with an lc2. Only thing I would change is run the bass output into one set of inputs on the 408 so you have eq/xover ability.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I was thinking of doing that, but I'm also going to change to 3way active front and still be able to time align/crossover and fade the rear fill. I also need to use level control and Eq the rear left component speaker because it's too close to my ear. I understand rear speakers can ruin the front soundstage, but in my vehicle, when everything is set just right, the rears (at low time aligned volume) actually add a bit of dimension to my system. So that basically leaves no outputs for my sub amp. But I can still use the basic 7 band sub Eq on the DQ-61 and the amps crossover and subsonic filters. Not ideal, but it works till I get something that does it all.

Did you ever use the speaker level inputs on the Dsp-408? Was there any noticeable difference using the LC2i as the LOC and sending that preamp level signal to the Dsp-408?


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## kmbkk

OK, I got this DSP a few months ago and was finally able to install it this weekend. Unfortunately I'm not getting any sound via the DSP. I bypassed the DSP and hooked the amp up directly and was able to get sound. I tried using my laptop (USB) as well as my iphone with no luck. I tried updating the firmware but keep getting a fail, and the DSP will disconnect. I have to restart the GUI to get it to connect again (USB). The preset is loaded into the DSP. I verified it with the app. I also tried resetting it to factory defaults but it fails as well. 

My system is in a '97 Miata, 2-way (6.5 & tweet in the doors), 1 amp, no sub right now. My setup is:

INPUT channels: 
1 & 2 (L&R), RCAs from the h/u; 3 & 4 are also connected for sub

OUTPUT channels:
1 - LT (input channel 1, 100%)
2 - RT (input channel 2, 100%)
3 - LM (input channel 1, 100%)
4 - RM (input channel 2, 100%)
5&6 - sub (input channels 3&4, muted)

I'm about at the point of pulling it out and just using the amp. I'm familiar with how to tune a DSP (I have a Helix DSP in my daily), just my first attempt with this DSP. I've attached pics to show how it's set up. Please tell me I'm missing something simple.


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## minbari

richardar6 said:


> I was thinking of doing that, but I'm also going to change to 3way active front and still be able to time align/crossover and fade the rear fill. I also need to use level control and Eq the rear left component speaker because it's too close to my ear. I understand rear speakers can ruin the front soundstage, but in my vehicle, when everything is set just right, the rears (at low time aligned volume) actually add a bit of dimension to my system. So that basically leaves no outputs for my sub amp. But I can still use the basic 7 band sub Eq on the DQ-61 and the amps crossover and subsonic filters. Not ideal, but it works till I get something that does it all.
> 
> Did you ever use the speaker level inputs on the Dsp-408? Was there any noticeable difference using the LC2i as the LOC and sending that preamp level signal to the Dsp-408?


The lc2i has allot of output capability (9v pre outs) so the 408 high level aren't quite as loud. But I had no issue being able to adjust.
As for the rears, you have independent input and output gain on each channel. You should be able to dial them in without a dedicated input for fading from hu

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## minbari

kmbkk said:


> OK, I got this DSP a few months ago and was finally able to install it this weekend. Unfortunately I'm not getting any sound via the DSP. I bypassed the DSP and hooked the amp up directly and was able to get sound. I tried using my laptop (USB) as well as my iphone with no luck. I tried updating the firmware but keep getting a fail, and the DSP will disconnect. I have to restart the GUI to get it to connect again (USB). The preset is loaded into the DSP. I verified it with the app. I also tried resetting it to factory defaults but it fails as well.
> 
> 
> 
> My system is in a '97 Miata, 2-way (6.5 & tweet in the doors), 1 amp, no sub right now. My setup is:
> 
> 
> 
> INPUT channels:
> 
> 1 & 2 (L&R), RCAs from the h/u; 3 & 4 are also connected for sub
> 
> 
> 
> OUTPUT channels:
> 
> 1 - LT (input channel 1, 100%)
> 
> 2 - RT (input channel 2, 100%)
> 
> 3 - LM (input channel 1, 100%)
> 
> 4 - RM (input channel 2, 100%)
> 
> 5&6 - sub (input channels 3&4, muted)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm about at the point of pulling it out and just using the amp. I'm familiar with how to tune a DSP (I have a Helix DSP in my daily), just my first attempt with this DSP. I've attached pics to show how it's set up. Please tell me I'm missing something simple.


Do you have the BT module? If so do you have the dsp set to streaming?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## kmbkk

minbari said:


> Do you have the BT module? If so do you have the dsp set to streaming?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk




Yes and yes. I also tried connecting my laptop to the DSP via Bluetooth and it didn’t help. I may try using another laptop just to eliminate that as a possibility.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## minbari

kmbkk said:


> Yes and yes. I also tried connecting my laptop to the DSP via Bluetooth and it didn’t help. I may try using another laptop just to eliminate that as a possibility.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Turn streaming off and see. I had the same problem. It will prefer that streaming connection over the rca

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


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## kmbkk

minbari said:


> Turn streaming off and see. I had the same problem. It will prefer that streaming connection over the rca
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk




Will do, thanks!


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## karmajack

Images are too small to see what you have. Clicking them doesn't enlarge either.


----------



## kmbkk

Let me know if these are better


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## karmajack

Better.

Might sound silly, but are you sure you have the incoming RCA's on the correct inputs? I notice you have inputs 3-4 basically off. Wondering if there's a mix up there.


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## kmbkk

karmajack said:


> Better.
> 
> 
> 
> Might sound silly, but are you sure you have the incoming RCA's on the correct inputs? I notice you have inputs 3-4 basically off. Wondering if there's a mix up there.




I’m pretty sure, but yeah I can definitely verify. I’ll also double check the RCAs to the amp. I want to make sure it’s not a path issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## minbari

kmbkk said:


> I’m pretty sure, but yeah I can definitely verify. I’ll also double check the RCAs to the amp. I want to make sure it’s not a path issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Also are you using speaker level in or rca? I know these are notorious for the speaker level connector being wired wrong.
Kinda sucks but you may have to see where things go. I know on mine, they had left/right backwards. (Mine was one of the first run)

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## kmbkk

minbari said:


> Also are you using speaker level in or rca? I know these are notorious for the speaker level connector being wired wrong.
> Kinda sucks but you may have to see where things go. I know on mine, they had left/right backwards. (Mine was one of the first run)
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk




RCAs for inputs and outputs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## minbari

kmbkk said:


> RCAs for inputs and outputs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well if turning off streaming and checking your rca placement yields nothing. Call dayton. It has to be defective.
Your screen shots look like it is setup correctly.
Only other thing I would check is the xover. Just make sure you didn't mistakenly swap hpf and lpf so that it filtered out all sound (not likely)

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## jbird61801

kmbkk said:


> I’m pretty sure, but yeah I can definitely verify. I’ll also double check the RCAs to the amp. I want to make sure it’s not a path issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just had my Dayton dsp installed last week and I was having the same issue. Everything set up and wired correctly using inputs 1,2 and no sound. Turned out the dsp is mixed up internally. When I chose inputs 3,4 in the software as my source, finally got sound.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## WinWiz

Can I use any Bluetooth USB stick, or does it have to be the Dayton stick?
To use the Dayton 408 with a pioneer 80 PRS headunit should I set the 80 PRS in standard or network mode?


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## kmbkk

jbird61801 said:


> Just had my Dayton dsp installed last week and I was having the same issue. Everything set up and wired correctly using inputs 1,2 and no sound. Turned out the dsp is mixed up internally. When I chose inputs 3,4 in the software as my source, finally got sound.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk




Did you leave the RCAs in 1&2 for the inputs, just switched it in the software?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## minbari

WinWiz said:


> Can I use any Bluetooth USB stick, or does it have to be the Dayton stick?
> To use the Dayton 408 with a pioneer 80 PRS headunit should I set the 80 PRS in standard or network mode?


Has to be the dayton BT module

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## cycleguy

I have just had a email from dayton about a software update for the 408 is that another update or the update that they done a few months back ?


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## Grinder

cycleguy said:


> I have just had a email from dayton about a software update for the 408 is that another update or the update that they done a few months back ?


Presumably a new one, that "resolves a communication failure that would occur under rare circumstances while loading a preset."


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## jbird61801

kmbkk said:


> Did you leave the RCAs in 1&2 for the inputs, just switched it in the software?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes exactly. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## kmbkk

jbird61801 said:


> Yes exactly.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk




Ok, just got home. I verified all RCAs are routes correctly. I then pulled up the preset on my app and tried different inputs for each output. I even put all 4 inputs to 100% for each output and still no sound. I’m at a loss now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LilJonny16

You can only use the Dayton Bluetooth stick. No offense to you but I don't understand why that is such a common question. 

And standard mode is what you want to use. You want to send the full range signal to the Dayton and you can adjust the crossover points with it, if need be.


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## Dr.Bosley

tonksie93 said:


> I have been having some trouble with my DSP. When my headunit is connected to the RCA inputs there is a rather loud buzz coming from my speakers, does not matter what volume my headunit is at or even muted. If i turn the main volume down on the DSP the buzz gets quieter, when at volume 30/66 the buzz is not noticeable but then the output voltage is too low for me to set my amplifier gains correctly as the gain adjustment maxes out.
> 
> I have connected my headunit outputs directly to my amplifiers and there is no noise so them components are fine. I have tried a ground loop isolator too and this has made no difference.
> 
> The only thing i am thinking is that my headunit outputs a BALANCED signal, can the DSP accept a balanced RCA signal? Or is mine faulty?


Are you running a signal: HU > DSP > amps? The dayton doesnt take differential balanced signals. I used a JL CL-RLC to convert to an unbalanced signal in my car. Ran twisted pairs of wire from the HU > CL-RLC > DSP > amps and its noise free for me.


----------



## kmbkk

Well, I was able to update the firmware with a different laptop last night. Unfortunately it didn't help.


----------



## WinWiz

I have a problem with my new dsp-408. I need 24dB/Oct slopes but anything above 18dB/Oct does'nt work.
Is my brand new DSP defect?


----------



## minbari

WinWiz said:


> I have a problem with my new dsp-408. I need 24dB/Oct slopes but anything above 18dB/Oct does'nt work.
> 
> Is my brand new DSP defect?


So if you set 24db slope you get no sound?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## WinWiz

minbari said:


> So if you set 24db slope you get no sound?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


No if I set 24dB it reverts back to no filter.

Latest firmware, rebooted PC and DSP but the problem persists


----------



## minbari

WinWiz said:


> No if I set 24dB it reverts back to no filter.
> 
> 
> 
> Latest firmware, rebooted PC and DSP but the problem persists


Are you also choosing "LR" as the alignment?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## WinWiz

LR as linkwich Riley? Does not matter if I choose LR, Butter or whatever, anything above 18dB/Oct reverts to all pass...


----------



## WinWiz

It's working fine on my laptop with windows 10. Strange it doesn't work on my desktop running Windows 7...


----------



## kmbkk

PE is going to exchange my DSP, so I’ll keep y’all updated once I swap in the new one


----------



## WinWiz

My 408 is installed and working ? Managed to shoehorn it in between firewall and climate unit, on the right side of my speeder. Had to lay on my back with feets outside of the car, NOT a pleasant working position!
Had some trouble changing my pioneer 80PRS from network to standard mode, had to move the dip switch, hardware reset and software reset.
Even without the wired preset switch the DSP does generate a little noise, without the dsp I had zero noise, with the dsp I can hear a faint hiss when the playback is paused, but it's very low. Don't know if it's because of the low input voltage. I'm going to change the RCA cable from my HU to the DSP. Right now I'm using an old thin cable. If it doesn't help I will live with it.
The DSPs behavior on turn on (boot?) is really bad. The tweeters pop and the sub plays really loud for half a second, so I will have to mount an on delay to my amps.
Compared to my 80prs HU the 408 tuning options seems unlimited, I will probably keep fine tuning it forever ?


----------



## WinWiz

Dayton 408 dsp sub Sonic filter?
Anyone knows how to use the 408 as a subsonic filter?
When looking at the gui graph High pass @ 20Hz doesn't seem to work...?


----------



## kanadian-kaos

WinWiz said:


> Dayton 408 dsp sub Sonic filter?
> Anyone knows how to use the 408 as a subsonic filter?
> When looking at the gui graph High pass @ 20Hz doesn't seem to work...?


Just put it at 21hz and you will see it on the graph. Probably want it higher than that if you are running a vented box. If you are running sealed, then leave it off.

For your turn on noise, run the remote wire to the 408 first (red wire is remote in), then out of the DSP (blue) to your amplifiers. IF you have already done that, then yes to the delay.


----------



## sparkymustang

Does anyone know what the behaviour would be if u fed the 408 with a differential balanced signal? Ive read it doesnt accept it, just want to know what it would do. Not work? Break it? Add loads of noise? Etc 

And how would i go about determining if mine is or not?

Cheers


----------



## minbari

sparkymustang said:


> Does anyone know what the behaviour would be if u fed the 408 with a differential balanced signal? Ive read it doesnt accept it, just want to know what it would do. Not work? Break it? Add loads of noise? Etc
> 
> And how would i go about determining if mine is or not?
> 
> Cheers


Prolly won't hurt the 408. It will ground half the signal. It could damage the source though.

You would want to make a cable with only 1 of the signals (inverted or non-inverted doesn't matter) and a ground. Just not both signal

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## kmbkk

kmbkk said:


> PE is going to exchange my DSP, so I’ll keep y’all updated once I swap in the new one




Heard back from PE today. They’re sending me a replacement DSP even though they said the one I sent it checked out ok. I asked if they checked it with my tune but haven’t heard back yet. Anyway, I know everything else in the system works correctly, as I connected the RCAs directly from the head unit to the amp and it’s all good. So we’ll see when I slave in the new one (fingers crossed)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kocil

Dear all ...
I'm just realizing that streaming through BT, instead of feeding through RCAs, produce far better sound.
Then I wonder, how the streaming mapped to the 4 input channels ?

Currently, I connect the RCA from HU as follows:
ch 1 : Front Left
ch 2 : Front Right
ch 3 : Rear Left
ch 4 : Rear Right


----------



## mattkim1337

Kocil said:


> Dear all ...
> 
> I'm just realizing that streaming through BT, instead of feeding through RCAs, produce far better sound.
> 
> Then I wonder, how the streaming mapped to the 4 input channels ?
> 
> 
> 
> Currently, I connect the RCA from HU as follows:
> 
> ch 1 : Front Left
> 
> ch 2 : Front Right
> 
> ch 3 : Rear Left
> 
> ch 4 : Rear Right


I think they map through the front left and right. Your phone doesn't have a fader so it doesn't make a difference.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


----------



## RekeHavoc

How did you guys go about setting your input gains with the DSP in place? I see no physical gain control on the DSP to adjust.


----------



## jdunk54nl

RekeHavoc said:


> How did you guys go about setting your input gains with the DSP in place? I see no physical gain control on the DSP to adjust.


It is adjusted via a computer or the bluetooth app via the master volume and individual channel volumes.

Edit* that is for the output side of the DSP. I don't think there was an input side that I remember.


----------



## minbari

RekeHavoc said:


> How did you guys go about setting your input gains with the DSP in place? I see no physical gain control on the DSP to adjust.


Easiest is to use the BT module and phone app. You have input and ouput gain for each channel, plus master volume.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## jdunk54nl

minbari said:


> RekeHavoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you guys go about setting your input gains with the DSP in place? I see no physical gain control on the DSP to adjust.
> 
> 
> 
> Easiest is to use the BT module and phone app. You have input and ouput gain for each channel, plus master volume.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You have a mixer for how much that channel gets mixed that I know of, but where is the input gain (I'm thinking input gain like my helix dsp.2 where I actually can adjust for the level going in prior to any output mixing/gains).


----------



## RekeHavoc

OK, I have used the DD-1 to determine the max undistorted volume of my HU. It sounds like I should also connect it to each channel's output on the DSP and set the max undistorted volume via the mixer. Then I can set my amp gains per usual. Does this sound about right?


----------



## jdunk54nl

RekeHavoc said:


> OK, I have used the DD-1 to determine the max undistorted volume of my HU. It sounds like I should also connect it to each channel's output on the DSP and set the max undistorted volume via the mixer. Then I can set my amp gains per usual. Does this sound about right?


The mixer is just that, mixing how much of each input you want to go to each channel. It isn't what you would use for gain setting.

You should set the volume level in the output tab of the channel to control the gain output of the dsp. You can also use the master volume to.control all outputs. 

I would also suggest turning the sub volume down on purpose, that way on some songs you can increase that if you want a little more bass. If it is maxed, you can't do that.


----------



## RekeHavoc

jdunk54nl said:


> The mixer is just that, mixing how much of each input you want to go to each channel. It isn't what you would use for gain setting.
> 
> You should set the volume level in the output tab of the channel to control the gain output of the dsp. You can also use the master volume to.control all outputs.
> 
> I would also suggest turning the sub volume down on purpose, that way on some songs you can increase that if you want a little more bass. If it is maxed, you can't do that.


Ahh, ok, I think I see. I haven't paid attention to what I now presume is the input gain slider for each channel. I haven't touched those nor the master volume slider (which I assume would set the gain across all channels). Did you have to adjust the master volume slider or did you leave that at the default -20dB?


----------



## minbari

jdunk54nl said:


> You have a mixer for how much that channel gets mixed that I know of, but where is the input gain (I'm thinking input gain like my helix dsp.2 where I actually can adjust for the level going in prior to any output mixing/gains).


Mixer is the input gain. You don't have to mix with it. But it controls the sensitivity of each input you set with it.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RekeHavoc

minbari said:


> Mixer is the input gain. You don't have to mix with it. But it controls the sensitivity of each input you set with it.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I guess I am confused then on the difference between the mixer vs. what I have circled in my screenshot above vs. the main volume control.


----------



## minbari

RekeHavoc said:


> I guess I am confused then on the difference between the mixer vs. what I have circled in my screenshot above vs. the main volume control.


Mixer is on the input. It controls input sesitivity, AND allows you to mix inputs. So it allows you to tell the dsp what input chalken corresponds to what output channel and how much relative to other input channels. If you map only 1 input to 1 output then it is purely gain.
What you circled is the output gain. That simply sets output magnitune for that channel (or pair of channels if you have them paired) this is all post processing (eq, xover, ta)
Master volume changes the magnitude of ALL outputs. But it keeps thier relative mix %. So if you max out the master volume and you tweeter is set for 20%. Its still 20%

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


----------



## RekeHavoc

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I must be an idiot.

I have my head unit set to flat, no xover, etc. and at the max undistorted volume. DSP is likewise set to flat, full range, etc. I am using a 1KHz -5dB test tone and the DD-1.

With the DD-1 connected to my HU, it is detecting the test tone around volume 28. I can actually run the HU all the way up to max volume without distortion. 
However, when I connect the DD-1 to the DSP output, I am getting distortion before the test tone is even detected. How could this be?

I am getting distortion if the input % is set above the 20-30% range...or, if I set the input % to 100 and bump the output for that channel above -15dB.


----------



## mfenske

RekeHavoc said:


> I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I must be an idiot.
> 
> I have my head unit set to flat, no xover, etc. and at the max undistorted volume. DSP is likewise set to flat, full range, etc. I am using a 1KHz -5dB test tone and the DD-1.
> 
> With the DD-1 connected to my HU, it is detecting the test tone around volume 28. I can actually run the HU all the way up to max volume without distortion.
> However, when I connect the DD-1 to the DSP output, I am getting distortion before the test tone is even detected. How could this be?
> 
> I am getting distortion if the input % is set above the 20-30% range...or, if I set the input % to 100 and bump the output for that channel above -15dB.


Totally spitballing here but is the input signal voltage too high for the processor? I think the max input voltage is like 3v on the Dayton unit-had to throttle my LC2i waaay back on mine.


----------



## lilsullivan04

mfenske said:


> Totally spitballing here but is the input signal voltage too high for the processor? I think the max input voltage is like 3v on the Dayton unit-had to throttle my LC2i waaay back on mine.




You can run the Dayton 408 and an LC unit together? I’m getting the Dayton and I have the lc8i.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mfenske

lilsullivan04 said:


> You can run the Dayton 408 and an LC unit together? I’m getting the Dayton and I have the lc8i.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I run the signal from the OEM source to the AC unit (after measuring max non-clipped signal with an Oscilloscope) and then out of the AC unit at just under the max voltage the Dayton will handle. That make sense?


----------



## lilsullivan04

mfenske said:


> I run the signal from the OEM source to the AC unit (after measuring max non-clipped signal with an Oscilloscope) and then out of the AC unit at just under the max voltage the Dayton will handle. That make sense?




Yes it does. Basically a really clean signal!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RekeHavoc

mfenske said:


> Totally spitballing here but is the input signal voltage too high for the processor? I think the max input voltage is like 3v on the Dayton unit-had to throttle my LC2i waaay back on mine.


Hmm, I didn't even think about that, but my HU does have 4v outputs. What I ended up doing is turning my HU down about 5 clicks from full tilt and I was able to set the gains from there. I will just need to remember that this is now my max undistorted volume, which shouldn't be an issue as it is plenty loud at even half of that.


----------



## AAAAAAA

I just got one of these on a whim and it's pretty sweet. Using it on the phone is so easy.
Haven't updated the firmware yet.


----------



## Jsnichols2

RekeHavoc said:


> Hmm, I didn't even think about that, but my HU does have 4v outputs. What I ended up doing is turning my HU down about 5 clicks from full tilt and I was able to set the gains from there. I will just need to remember that this is now my max undistorted volume, which shouldn't be an issue as it is plenty loud at even half of that.


Yep, I had the same problem with my NEX head unit when I first hooked up my Dayton DSP. The max volume on the radio is now around 30 or 31 when before it was closer to 36. Luckily there are ways to get more output, like pushing the master volume up on the Dayton and also setting the source level adjust on the NEX radio up a few notches if needed.


----------



## tonksie93

Can the wired remote be used to adjust an individual channel level, like the subs? Or is it just for the main level?


----------



## rayray881

Main level and you can change presets. You could have a separate tune with the sub boosted as a preset.


----------



## Chaos

tricon said:


> Hey Guys, loooooots of great advice in this thread, I think I've read every post so far. Have a couple questions for you guys since there's some super knowledgeable mofos in there.
> 
> I have a '17 Superduty with the following in it:
> 
> - Stock Sync 3 HU
> - Infinity Kappa Perfect 600's up front (passive)
> - *Dayton 4" Center Channel*
> - Polk DB 6.5's in the rear (for fill)
> - 2 Infinity 10's behind the seat
> 
> The Perfects are powered by a small kenwood 4ch amp, bridged its giving them 191w RMS. Rears are just run off the head hu. Subs have 250w RMS to them.
> 
> The whole system really sounds amazing for how little Ive spent on it. But I can tell the fronts need a lot of love with TA and some EQ. I'm really interested in getting the DSP408 and running the fronts active and the sub. *Should I get another 4 channel amp and run my center and rears through the DSP as well?* Should I just disconnect them? Im pretty sure a lot of my Android Auto prompts come primarily through the center channel, not 100% on that yet.
> 
> What would you guys do? I guess I can start with running the fronts active and my subs, and hoping the rears and the center dont destroy my staging that much....hmm.


Unless I missed it, I don't think anybody ever replied to this question about using a center channel. Does anybody know for sure whether or not the 408 is capable of providing a true center channel output?


----------



## jdunk54nl

Chaos said:


> Unless I missed it, I don't think anybody ever replied to this question about using a center channel. Does anybody know for sure whether or not the 408 is capable of providing a true center channel output?


Definitely not capable. All it will give you is summing of input channels. It won't delete any info for center or rear fill. So can't do L-R even for rear fill through DSP settings, needs to be hard wired. Definitely can't do L+R minus what is just left and what is just right, but a lot of dsp's can't do that either.


----------



## Chaos

jdunk54nl said:


> Definitely not capable. All it will give you is summing of input channels. It won't delete any info for center or rear fill. So can't do L-R even for rear fill through DSP settings, needs to be hard wired. Definitely can't do L+R minus what is just left and what is just right, but a lot of dsp's can't do that either.


That's what I suspected. It seems that center channel processing is the exception rather than the norm, which is not what I was expecting at all. I wonder why that is?


----------



## jdunk54nl

Chaos said:


> jdunk54nl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely not capable. All it will give you is summing of input channels. It won't delete any info for center or rear fill. So can't do L-R even for rear fill through DSP settings, needs to be hard wired. Definitely can't do L+R minus what is just left and what is just right, but a lot of dsp's can't do that either.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I suspected. It seems that center channel processing is the exception rather than the norm, which is not what I was expecting at all. I wonder why that is?
Click to expand...


The amount of processing power and algorithm it takes for center channel. It had to figure out what is common in both left and right and what is not and delete what's not.

With l-r it just deletes what is common and leaves what's not and that can be done by polarity.


----------



## tonksie93

What is the minimum requirements to use the windows software?


----------



## soco_canyon

tonksie93 said:


> What is the minimum requirements to use the windows software?


Install it and see if it works?


----------



## richardar6

Desperate! 

I have a few posts in the beginning of this thread. I was one of the people that had their inputs reversed, but I think there's more wrong with mine. I wired my fronts to what was supposed to be input one and two, but the mixer only output to 3 and 4.(meaning zero sound from mixer 1 and 2). The exact opposite happened to the rear. Today I realized I had no upper end on my tweeters. I played with the EQ, no effect. I thought I'd try the mixer for the hell of it. Low and behold, I can now get audio out to my fronts via mixer one and two or three and four. Huge problem now. Input 1 and 2 only plays upper frequencies and really low lows, and input 3 and 4 seems band passed for mid and mid bass. And now its stuck that way. I never changed my crossover frequencies yet even though the fronts are set at 65 Hertz, they are going that low. So I now have to set the mixer for 1 and 3 max for left, and 2 and 4 for right to get full range, but even then it sounds hollow. I've tried phase adjustment, different crossovers, nothing. Even the subwoofer is off. Crossed over at 55hz, but if I use mixer 1 and 2, the bass is muddy and distorted like it's trying to play upper portions (above 100hz). I've had this DSP since the day it was released and have tinkered with it so I'm not a newbie, but it's never sounded this bad before. I have nothing bandbassed except my kids. The only thing i have linked is channel 7 and 8 which are my subs. Given the fact I orginally could only get sound from mixer 3 and 4 for input channel 1 and 2, but now magically i can get sound from mixer 1 and 2, but not full frequency on any channel, I'm thinking my Dayton DSP is on the fritz. I'm 100% sure the high level from my OEM head unit is outputting full range, not to mention it was working fine before except for the input reversal and no ability to assign sound to correct the input reversal. I'm stumped. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Oh, I updated the firmware a few months back and can't be sure if that's when I lost the upper frequency on my fronts.


----------



## tonksie93

Anyone had problems with the windows software? It seems to be cropped on my laptop display so i cannot access some functions. I have tried different screen resolutions but doesn’t seem to help.


----------



## steelwindmachine

Has anyone had any success using the Speaker Line Inputs as opposed to installing a LOC to connect up an OEM head unit that doesn't have line outputs?


----------



## Theslaking

Yes. That's the only we I've installed one of these.


----------



## jdunk54nl

steelwindmachine said:


> Has anyone had any success using the Speaker Line Inputs as opposed to installing a LOC to connect up an OEM head unit that doesn't have line outputs?


That is how mine is setup in my wife's car.

I believe the instruction manual and the actual harness has some wiring issues with which channel is which. The one on the dsp is right.


----------



## steelwindmachine

If you're using the Speaker Line Inputs, are you controlling system volume with your HU or via the DSP remote/phone BT control?


----------



## jdunk54nl

steelwindmachine said:


> If you're using the Speaker Line Inputs, are you controlling system volume with your HU or via the DSP remote/phone BT control?


HU. My wife wanted 0 changes to operating her radio. Other than I told her she can't go beyond 22 on her volume of the HU due to clipping...she reminded me that volume 4 was blaring with her radio...and it is LOUD at 4! I actually turned the output of the dayton down to give her a little more volume range.


----------



## KG089

/STEELWINDMACHINE/
Define:success 
Sorry lol but yeah from what I understand it CAN get ugly with factory high level out or even if rca’s were standard .. 
Since many oem stereos have built in equalization in place and so that possibly even the speaker leads are crossed over already internally or other various problems . The built in eq many times has much bass information removed also 
Idk but that’s the fiXx82 and such big deal feature function 
Correcting - factory settings 
It dfntly doesn’t involve setting the eq to flat 
It’s much ‘worse’ than that usually 
Unless the base model maybe 
I.E Honda Accord - only two models lx being one of them have a radio that has nothing included for matching driver positions and or ‘sizes’
The rest of them are tuned to work with the drivers 
And there is no undoing it 
Short of replacing factory unit 
And if original signal is altered it may be fixable - but never will be ‘the original stock recorded flat proper desired signal’ 
in the twk case ‘close’ is very doable since it’s processed 
Not just eq’d as Such or what not 
.processed 
No loc or high level inputs does that in any way 
Although the music may still be playable and sound fine depending on listener 
Orrrrrr you could have 100w rms on 150w mids and still blow um prematurely since the original single is boosted +6db
Even on flat 
Listen veryyyy closely to drivers one by one as a final measure til playing them anywhere near half power output like
*and during few weeks break in 
Til sure 
Nothing is stressed or overdriven 
Signal wise kinda IS power wise


----------



## CowTown

43 pages!! This thread got way too long! Spent 2 hours and haven't even got through all these posts.

Anyway, finally got my DSP. I see that a few people on here have their factory HU hooked up to the AC LC 2i, then the DSP. 
Before I got the dsp I was running the AC LC 2i. Figured now that I have this dsp I didn't need the LC 2i anymore. Was going to connect the speaker level inputs in. But now I'm wondering if I should continue to use the LC 2i. I guess to remove the factory processing and send a flat signal to the DSP?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!


----------



## jdunk54nl

CowTown said:


> 43 pages!! This thread got way too long! Spent 2 hours and haven't even got through all these posts.
> 
> Anyway, finally got my DSP. I see that a few people on here have their factory HU hooked up to the AC LC 2i, then the DSP.
> Before I got the dsp I was running the AC LC 2i. Figured now that I have this dsp I didn't need the LC 2i anymore. Was going to connect the speaker level inputs in. But now I'm wondering if I should continue to use the LC 2i. I guess to remove the factory processing and send a flat signal to the DSP?
> 
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!


Just seems like an extra thing to me. Have you measured your factory output to see if there is any factory eq being applied? I know ford only does on their rear speakers, they don’t eq anything on the fronts. My wife’s kia also didn’t have any factory eq issues that I saw.


----------



## CowTown

jdunk54nl said:


> Just seems like an extra thing to me. Have you measured your factory output to see if there is any factory eq being applied? I know ford only does on their rear speakers, they don’t eq anything on the fronts. My wife’s kia also didn’t have any factory eq issues that I saw.


I have not. I do not have measuring tools at the moment...


----------



## Frijoles24

jdunk54nl said:


> That is how mine is setup in my wife's car.
> 
> I believe the instruction manual and the actual harness has some wiring issues with which channel is which. The one on the dsp is right.


i was reluctant on doing that because on their manual, it said 'using this may cause popping and can damage speakers. please install resistor'

do you have that problem with the popping?
i bought an lc2i to avoid that


----------



## jdunk54nl

Frijoles24 said:


> i was reluctant on doing that because on their manual, it said 'using this may cause popping and can damage speakers. please install resistor'
> 
> do you have that problem with the popping?
> i bought an lc2i to avoid that


It says to install a capacitor, which I do on all of my active setups. I have a 47 uf capacitor inline on them. This is just for extra protection.


----------



## Frijoles24

jdunk54nl said:


> It says to install a capacitor, which I do on all of my active setups. I have a 47 uf capacitor inline on them. This is just for extra protection.


yea cap. how do i choose which cap to use and at what uf?


----------



## jdunk54nl

Frijoles24 said:


> yea cap. how do i choose which cap to use and at what uf?


47 to 68 microfarads is good. That is usually around 800hz and will protect most tweeters from the frequencies that cause damage. 

Remember, it is there for protection, not to impact the actualy frequency response. So you want it less than your crossover, at least an octave.


https://www.parts-express.com/47uf-100v-electrolytic-non-polarized-crossover-capacitor--027-352


Here is an actual calculator for it
https://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/passive-crossover-calculator.asp

Here is Andy talking about it.

https://www.audiofrog.com/community...p-tweeters-in-systems-with-active-crossovers/


----------



## CongnongOF

Has anyone try to using other Bluetooth dongle instead of Dayton BT? I found that many other BT are more compact and cheaper.


----------



## hankhowdy1

Since this DSP has a max low level input voltage of 3.2v, will this cause any issues with my 4v of output from my head unit? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rayray881

hankhowdy1 said:


> Since this DSP has a max low level input voltage of 3.2v, will this cause any issues with my 4v of output from my head unit?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using
> Tapatalk


No issues. I’m running a Kenwood head unit that outputs 5v to one. You just might notice you have to set the gains on your amps a little higher compared to running directly from head unit to retain the same output. You’ll be good!


----------



## jtrosky

So if the max input voltage is 3.2v and you feed it a 5v signal, it will just cut it down to 3.2v? Is that how it works?


----------



## jdunk54nl

jtrosky said:


> So if the max input voltage is 3.2v and you feed it a 5v signal, it will just cut it down to 3.2v? Is that how it works?


No, that clips the input signal....The dsp can not accept more than 3.2v. You will cause issues if you continually send it too much power in. It will not reduce it.

Although when playing music, odds of that actually happening are pretty slim.

The "proper" way to use something that outputs more than 3.2v is to find where that source outputs 3.2v at. That is now your max volume that you should not exceed. Set your gains at the amp based on that volume.


----------



## rayray881

jdunk54nl said:


> jtrosky said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if the max input voltage is 3.2v and you feed it a 5v signal, it will just cut it down to 3.2v? Is that how it works?
> 
> 
> 
> No, that clips the input signal....The dsp can not accept more than 3.2v. You will cause issues if you continually send it too much power in. It will not reduce it.
> 
> Although when playing music, odds of that actually happening are pretty slim.
> 
> The "proper" way to use something that outputs more than 3.2v is to find where that source outputs 3.2v at. That is now your max volume that you should not exceed. Set your gains at the amp based on that volume.
Click to expand...

Great explanation.


----------



## hankhowdy1

jdunk54nl said:


> No, that clips the input signal....The dsp can not accept more than 3.2v. You will cause issues if you continually send it too much power in. It will not reduce it.
> 
> 
> 
> Although when playing music, odds of that actually happening are pretty slim.
> 
> 
> 
> The "proper" way to use something that outputs more than 3.2v is to find where that source outputs 3.2v at. That is now your max volume that you should not exceed. Set your gains at the amp based on that volume.




So I would measure with my DMM set to ac voltage at the head unit pre out? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Truthunter

Most HU output voltage ratings are rated at Max peak voltage. Most DSP and amplifier input voltage ratings are RMS. So it's usually not an issue.

For instance: I have an Alpine headunit with "4v" preamp outputs. My amps max RMS input voltage is 2.5v. Before installing a DSP I never had an issue with clipping even with 0db content at max volume.

EDIT: I actually ran a Dayton DSP for a short period in my vehicle last year with that same 4v Alpine HU - Never had an issue with clipping. And never bothered measuring anything to set it up.


----------



## jdunk54nl

hankhowdy1 said:


> So I would measure with my DMM set to ac voltage at the head unit pre out?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, AC voltage one connection on the center pin and one on the ground shield (the outside part). Test it with 0db tones. I generally use a variety of frequencies just to make sure.

You can test the rca cables at the dsp as it is probably easier to access.


----------



## Mitchc1113

I had a question that's more of an opinion I guess. Has anyone gone back & forth between running your subwoofer(s) thru the DSP vs bypassing the DSP for your sub(s)?? 

I have run my 2 different subwoofer amps & 3 different sub setups active thru the Dayton since I installed it. Was just wondering what differences if any, positive and/or negative anyone has experienced running your sub(s) active thru DSP vs stand alone?

I've been pleased with how my subs have performed running active, but just something I was pondering ya know? Does anyone not run their sub(s) active who use this or another DSP?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Mitchc1113

I have had my DSP-408 since right around when they were 1st released. I want to say I purchased mine in like late August of 2018. Well because my build has taken so long bc I dont get much free time to install everything I still havent gotten around to installing my for right now"permanent" front stage, the very popular SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35 6.5 mids & Tang Band 25-2176s tweeters combo. Right now I have a set of NVX VSP coaxials & 2.75" full range dash speakers. Because of this I've only done a basic tune, I have the Audiofrog Umi-1 kit for when I install the 2 way setup.

So I havent updated my firmware since I got the unit. Any adjustments I've made to my tune or different presets I've created have all been done thru the phone app on my Galaxy Note 8 besides my initial 1st tune. I'm assuming I have the original firmware, but I've never experienced any of the popular issues that some ppl experienced in early units with both hardware & software. So my question is since I seemingly recieved a bug free unit should I still do firmware updates? When I run the software from .y laptop again here eventually is it worth it to update considering I've never had any issues? My take would be yes, that over the past year I'm sure the firmware has gotten a lot better since the 1st versions... but I also know with a lot of other devices updates dont always mean better...

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## steelwindmachine

If I'm running speaker line inputs, do I still need to send the DSP and remote-on signal?

If not, can I use the Remote Out from the DSP to switch on my amps?

My HU is a factory unit with no dedicated remote on line out.


----------



## jdunk54nl

steelwindmachine said:


> If I'm running speaker line inputs, do I still need to send the DSP and remote-on signal?
> Only if you experience some weird issues. I have had some issues in the past on other vehicles with signal sense stuff. So far my wife's Dayton hasn't had any.
> 
> If not, can I use the Remote Out from the DSP to switch on my amps?
> Yes, they are two separate things. One tells the dsp to turn on, the other is once the dsp turns on, it tells the other stuff to turn on. Doesn't matter how the DSP gets turned on
> 
> My HU is a factory unit with no dedicated remote on line out.
> A lot of people in this case use a add a fuse and tap a fuse that has power on ignition



Answers inline.


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## shawndoggy

Thoughts on my scenario...

Currently running a pair of infinity kappa perfect 600s (3 way 6.5 comp set) and a kicker cvr 10 from a JL RD 900/5. The comps are running bridged to the passive crossovers. I am actually pretty happy with the install but would like a little more EQ than I currently have from the bass and treble sliders on my factory HU. 

So I don’t currently have enough channels to run the 408 to my comps as configured. 

How would this work If I bi-amped? Basically leave the mids and tweeters on the passive x-overs, but run the woofers from their own separate channels on the 408. My mids and tweets are also very close to each other on the dash vs the woofers which are in the doors, so my thought is that time alignment might not be perfect but would be better than it is now. Terrible idea?

I am an absolute newb to the running active / dsp world.


----------



## jdunk54nl

shawndoggy said:


> Thoughts on my scenario...
> 
> Currently running a pair of infinity kappa perfect 600s (3 way 6.5 comp set) and a kicker cvr 10 from a JL RD 900/5. The comps are running bridged to the passive crossovers. I am actually pretty happy with the install but would like a little more RW than I currently have from the bass and treble sliders on my factory HU.
> 
> So I don’t currently have enough channels to run the 408 to my comps as configured.
> 
> How would this work If I bi-amped? Basically leave the mids and tweeters on the passive covers, but run the woofers from their own separate channels on the 408. My manager Dan and tweets are also very close to each other on the dash vs the woofers which are in the doors, so my thought is that time alignment might not be perfect but would be better than it is now. Terrible idea?
> 
> I am an absolute newb to the running active / sap world.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How did you fit manager Dan so close to your tweets? 

That would be one way to do it. It does limit the ability to tune/TA the mids and tweets as separate speakers, so you will only have 10 bands of EQ for those two speakers. But I think it would be a good option for now as you will have TA correct for midbass and EQ, then the same for the midrange and tweets together.


----------



## shawndoggy

jdunk54nl said:


> How did you fit manager Dan so close to your tweets?
> 
> .



Grrrrrrr autocorrect!


----------



## hankhowdy1

Ok, I was able to order one and it’s on its way. 

I have a question about input sound quality comparison. 

I get all my music from my iPhone XS Max using the Apple Music app. I have high quality streaming toggled on. 

My head unit is a Clarion CX-505.  https://www.crutchfield.com/p_020CX505/Clarion-CX505.html 

Currently I use the lightning port to usb on the head unit. This bypasses the iPhones DAC and uses the head units. When I use Bluetooth it doesn’t quit sound as good as the USB. The head unit is 2.1 Bluetooth. 

The Dayton DSP has 4.0 Bluetooth, will the sound quality sound closer to the usb than the head units 2.1 Bluetooth head unit? Or will it not matter. Bluetooth is Bluetooth? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Alain93

hankhowdy1 said:


> The Dayton DSP has 4.0 Bluetooth, will the sound quality sound closer to the usb than the head units 2.1 Bluetooth head unit? Or will it not matter. Bluetooth is Bluetooth?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the question, I spent the last 4 hours reading about Bluetooth.
IPhone xs had problem with Bluetooth back in 2018, has this been resolved?
Unless the dsp408 has the aac decoder, music will be converted down to SBC (not as good), Iphones don't use aptx, which would have been the best in this case.
Using 4.0 will still be better than 2.1 and get you a little closer to the USB connection, but you need to try, if not already done, and see if it's good enough for you.
If the DSP uses AAC codec, in this case it "should be as good" as wired, but like I said, not sure about this.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk


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## Aquahallic

I have factory HU and need a LOC and I might need a EQ for a sub I'll be installing soon. I was looking at one of the Audiocontrol that also have 5-7 bands of EQ for a sub;
LCQ-1
DQ61
EQL
EQX

But I came across the 408. I read some comments about the DA 408 causes noise and one person still had to use a LOC but I also read that some of the Audiocontrols cause noises too?!? 

Is the 408 better than one of the Audiocontrols above for sub adjustment? Do I still need to use a LOC with the 408?


----------



## steelwindmachine

The DSP-408 has speaker level line inputs. You could directly feed the 408 with the HU's speaker outputs.

No LOC required.



Aquahallic said:


> I have factory HU and need a LOC and I might need a EQ for a sub I'll be installing soon. I was looking at one of the Audiocontrol that also have 5-7 bands of EQ for a sub;
> LCQ-1
> DQ61
> EQL
> EQX
> 
> But I came across the 408. I read some comments about the DA 408 causes noise and one person still had to use a LOC but I also read that some of the Audiocontrols cause noises too?!?
> 
> Is the 408 better than one of the Audiocontrols above for sub adjustment? Do I still need to use a LOC with the 408?


----------



## Aquahallic

steelwindmachine said:


> The DSP-408 has speaker level line inputs. You could directly feed the 408 with the HU's speaker outputs.
> 
> No LOC required.


It is easy to use? I have my amp in a hidden compartment in the rear cargo area of my SUV. Part of it is open to let cabin air in and temps reached less than 110f when fully closed. Will the 408 be ok in there?

Is the 408 just a matter of hooking up my speaker inputs, power, ground, running a RCA from the 408 to my amp then using the 408s bluetooth dongle and connecting to my phone and adjusting the certain bands?

When it comes to software I'm not tech savvy, that's why the Audiocontrol caught my eye. It's as simple as turning one of the knobs on the front panel to adjust the band.


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## steelwindmachine

if you're not tech-savvy, then the 408 or any computer-based DSP is going to be tech-heavy since you'll also need to use an RTA (REW on a computer) with a calibrated microphone to effectively measure and make adjustments.

If you're after more simplicity, then yes, maybe the AudioControl unit might be the way to go.

If you're on the fence, watch some DSP tuning tutorials, download the DSP-408 software and REW (is free) and see if after watching and ready some tutorials it all still feels too involved and/or complicated.

Yes, the 408 will be fine in an enclosed area and yes, your connection scheme is correct.



Aquahallic said:


> It is easy to use? I have my amp in a hidden compartment in the rear cargo area of my SUV. Part of it is open to let cabin air in and temps reached less than 110f when fully closed. Will the 408 be ok in there?
> 
> Is the 408 just a matter of hooking up my speaker inputs, power, ground, running a RCA from the 408 to my amp then using the 408s bluetooth dongle and connecting to my phone and adjusting the certain bands?
> 
> When it comes to software I'm not tech savvy, that's why the Audiocontrol caught my eye. It's as simple as turning one of the knobs on the front panel to adjust the band.


----------



## jdunk54nl

Aquahallic said:


> It is easy to use? I have my amp in a hidden compartment in the rear cargo area of my SUV. Part of it is open to let cabin air in and temps reached less than 110f when fully closed. Will the 408 be ok in there?
> 
> Is the 408 just a matter of hooking up my speaker inputs, power, ground, running a RCA from the 408 to my amp then using the 408s bluetooth dongle and connecting to my phone and adjusting the certain bands?
> 
> When it comes to software I'm not tech savvy, that's why the Audiocontrol caught my eye. It's as simple as turning one of the knobs on the front panel to adjust the band.


It is pretty easy to use and really easy if you get the bluetooth adapter to connect to your phone and the app. Then you never have to open your secret compartment to even access the DSP.

It offers quite a bit more than just the LOC and a couple screw adjustments. You don't need to use all of the features right off the bat, but it does allow for upgrades in the future.


----------



## Aquahallic

So far I have the 408, bluetooth dongle and UMM-6 mic in my cart.

Looking through the 408 manual it says if using speaker inputs in a car to switch it to SPK to turn it on but it doesn't say how to set the gain on it to match the HU.

I had a JL LoC-22 and you turned the gain knob and a LED turned green when you got to 2V and it turned red when you reached 8V. How do I set the input gain on this?


----------



## jdunk54nl

Aquahallic said:


> So far I have the 408, bluetooth dongle and UMM-6 mic in my cart.
> 
> Looking through the 408 manual it says if using speaker inputs in a car to switch it to SPK to turn it on but it doesn't say how to set the gain on it to match the HU.
> 
> I had a JL LoC-22 and you turned the gain knob and a LED turned green when you got to 2V and it turned red when you reached 8V. How do I set the input gain on this?


Well first find your HU clipped volume level,
Then use the volume mixer in the DSP software to route the channels. 


Set the master volume in the DSP to somewhere in the green. Then set amp gain like you normally would.


----------



## Aquahallic

jdunk54nl said:


> Well first find your HU clipped volume level,
> Then use the volume mixer in the DSP software to route the channels.
> 
> 
> Set the master volume in the DSP to somewhere in the green. Then set amp gain like you normally would.



So setting the master volume is like setting the voltage on a LOC?

Looking through some more 408 posts, why did this guy still have to use a LOC (LC2i) with the 408?
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...isons/418709-short-dayton-dsp-408-review.html


----------



## jdunk54nl

Aquahallic said:


> So setting the master volume is like setting the voltage on a LOC?
> 
> Looking through some more 408 posts, why did this guy still have to use a LOC (LC2i) with the 408?
> https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...isons/418709-short-dayton-dsp-408-review.html


Basically. 

I use the mixer and say input 1 is my left channel, then output channel 1 and 3 is going to be my tweeter and then my midbass (for a 2 way active system) and they will get 100% input 1 on the mixer side.

Then similar for input 2 and channel 3 & 4. 

My sub gets 100% from input 1 and input 2 to channel 7 & 8 that are linked via the software.

Then the overall output is done via the master volume which is like setting the output voltage of the DSP. I set that IIRC at 50 in my wife's car and haven't changed it. Set my amp gains for that and then use the HU volume to control the volume.


----------



## Aquahallic

jdunk54nl said:


> Basically.
> 
> I use the mixer and say input 1 is my left channel, then output channel 1 and 3 is going to be my tweeter and then my midbass (for a 2 way active system) and they will get 100% input 1 on the mixer side.
> 
> Then similar for input 2 and channel 3 & 4.
> 
> My sub gets 100% from input 1 and input 2 to channel 7 & 8 that are linked via the software.
> 
> Then the overall output is done via the master volume which is like setting the output voltage of the DSP. I set that IIRC at 50 in my wife's car and haven't changed it. Set my amp gains for that and then use the HU volume to control the volume.



Thanks! After messing with the software and watching some REW videos on YT it's starting to make sense. I'm only using the DA 408 for a single sub. Is the USB dongle worth the $30? If I had many speakers to adjust I can see needing it but I'm not sure since it's 1 sub so it's a set it and forget it situation?  

Regarding the settings, below is how I have it setup using the software on my laptop. Does this look correct?

I'll be tapping off of the 2nd row L & R speakers;
L+ to pin 7 (IN1)
L- to pin 8 (IN1)
R+ to pin 5 (IN2)
R- to pin 6 (IN2)











The input will be on IN1 & IN2 (input signal set to 100%) and the output will be on CH1 & CH2 labeled SUB. Then I'll use the volume slider on the bottom right of the screen to sort of set the voltage like I would with a LOC. 









I'm still unclear about matching the voltage to my HU. In past installs I never had to worry about LOCs since I swapped out the factory HU and had RCAs to run straight to the amp. When setting the JL LOC I set the HU volume to around 75% of the max volume and adjusted the knob on the LOC until the LED turned green, that equaled 2V. Using your example of volume 50 in your wifes car, do I set my HU to 75% volume and then adjust the volume slider to 50? 


And one last question about the filters. Since my amp has a LPF do I set the LPF and HPF type to _defeat_? If not which filter type do I choose, _Linkwitz Riley, Butterworth or Bessel_?


----------



## jdunk54nl

Aquahallic said:


> Thanks! After messing with the software and watching some REW videos on YT it's starting to make sense. I'm only using the DA 408 for a single sub. Is the USB dongle worth the $30? If I had many speakers to adjust I can see needing it but I'm not sure since it's 1 sub so it's a set it and forget it situation?
> 
> Regarding the settings, below is how I have it setup using the software on my laptop. Does this look correct?
> 
> I'll be tapping off of the 2nd row L & R speakers;
> L+ to pin 7 (IN1)
> L- to pin 8 (IN1)
> R+ to pin 5 (IN2)
> R- to pin 6 (IN2)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The input will be on IN1 & IN2 (input signal set to 100%) and the output will be on CH1 & CH2 labeled SUB. Then I'll use the volume slider on the bottom right of the screen to sort of set the voltage like I would with a LOC.
> I normally set IN1 and IN2 for 100% for both channel 7 and 8. So channel 7 has IN1 100% and IN2 100% and same for channel 7. Then set gains at amp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still unclear about matching the voltage to my HU. In past installs I never had to worry about LOCs since I swapped out the factory HU and had RCAs to run straight to the amp. When setting the JL LOC I set the HU volume to around 75% of the max volume and adjusted the knob on the LOC until the LED turned green, that equaled 2V. Using your example of volume 50 in your wifes car, do I set my HU to 75% volume and then adjust the volume slider to 50?
> You would have to figure out what your max HU volume is. 75% is usually safe. But I personally use an o-scope to find this. The dayton DSP also says the max speaker input level is 8v so you can see which one is less.
> 
> 
> And one last question about the filters. Since my amp has a LPF do I set the LPF and HPF type to _defeat_? If not which filter type do I choose, _Linkwitz Riley, Butterworth or Bessel_?
> Set them to defeat and usually linkwitz Riley when you ar matching to your mids, but for you since you aren't using this for your other speakers, see what one sounds better. The type just changes what happens at the crossover region. LR just drops each channel by 3db at the crossover.



Answers Inline in red


----------



## Fourtyfive

I have a 2014 F150 non sony factory HU with the 408 installed. I have it set up for ch 1 LF ch2 RF ch3 LR ch 4 RR and ch7/8 sub. For some reason, everything is backwards on the hu fade/ balance, ie left is right and front is rear. Using speaker line input to the 408. Does this mean I wired something up wrong on to the DSP. I am using a T-harness, so wondering if the wire colors were wrong.

edit: inputs are the same as channels. in1 to ch1, in2 to ch2 etc. in3/4 to subs


----------



## jdunk54nl

Fourtyfive said:


> I have a 2014 F150 non sony factory HU with the 408 installed. I have it set up for ch 1 LF ch2 RF ch3 LR ch 4 RR and ch7/8 sub. For some reason, everything is backwards on the hu fade/ balance, ie left is right and front is rear. Using speaker line input to the 408. Does this mean I wired something up wrong on to the DSP. I am using a T-harness, so wondering if the wire colors were wrong.
> 
> edit: inputs are the same as channels. in1 to ch1, in2 to ch2 etc. in3/4 to subs


You definitely wired something backwards.
Are you using the for-11ck harness with speed wire to Dsp?

Did you wire “in 1” on the to outmost wires or the inner most on the dsp? Should be inner most on dsp.


----------



## jongray911

I would recommend looking at how you have the inputs/outputs configured in the software. If you believe that you have the system wired correctly then this is likely your culprit.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## jbird61801

Fourtyfive said:


> I have a 2014 F150 non sony factory HU with the 408 installed. I have it set up for ch 1 LF ch2 RF ch3 LR ch 4 RR and ch7/8 sub. For some reason, everything is backwards on the hu fade/ balance, ie left is right and front is rear. Using speaker line input to the 408. Does this mean I wired something up wrong on to the DSP. I am using a T-harness, so wondering if the wire colors were wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> edit: inputs are the same as channels. in1 to ch1, in2 to ch2 etc. in3/4 to subs


On my Dayton DSP the inputs were mixed up internally. Everything was wired correctly, I was only using inputs 1&2, and wasn't getting any sound. After some troubleshooting and headaches I switched the inputs only in the software to 3&4, finally got sound. There are others in this thread that have had the same issue 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Fourtyfive

Thanks for the feedback guys. I wired the dsp harness up on the bench using their manual, which said standard speaker wire colors: white grey green purple. However the back of the DSP shows the inputs to be backwards from channels, purple being input 1 white being input 4. Just changed the inputs in the software and all is good.


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## jongray911

Great.. glad to hear you got got it sorted. It's a fine little unit once you get it up and running correctly.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## F150Man

jongray911 said:


> Great.. glad to hear you got got it sorted. It's a fine little unit once you get it up and running correctly.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I think mine is adding a considerable amount of noise to the high end of my system. Also, the only way I can get it to sound right is by having all the EQ except subs flat and crossovers all set on 12 db Butterworth. LR seems to lower overall gain.


----------



## jdunk54nl

F150Man said:


> I think mine is adding a considerable amount of noise to the high end of my system. Also, the only way I can get it to sound right is by having all the EQ except subs flat and crossovers all set on 12 db Butterworth. LR seems to lower overall gain.


You either have a faulty product, are doing something wrong, or have expectations of something else. Based on the information provided, which wasn't much, I would put money on the last two.

Through the interwebs it is hard to determine which one it is but we can hopefully rule some things out.
What is your experience with setting up and tuning DSP's? How are you measuring and then adjusting the EQ?
What is your experience with a SQ system?


----------



## Iamsecond

Sounds like a gain issue as far as noise and or a ground issue. 
The other sounds like an input/output routing issue. 
I thought I had my daughters right until I listened to a song from the doors that I know extremely well and noticed one of the guitar solos was missing and then started working with one channel at a time and realized I had inadvertently set the routing incorrectly I. Relation to the rca inputs and when I changed it, it was perfect.


----------



## F150Man

OK, I must confess I have an Audiocontrol LC7i in the audio stream also and find it hard to get it set correctly. I thought I would need it for my base system to create a sub channel. After I got the DSP and figured out I can pretty much create any type of channel on it, including sub, I thought I would use both since I had them. Do you think I should take the LC7i out of the mix and connect the DSP408 with high level (speaker wire) inputs ? I have read reviews on the DSP408 that says it doesn't seem to work well with high level inputs. Also, it seems that after the DSP408 does all the summing magic, I have neither balance or fade control with my headunit. Does this seem right ?


----------



## mambo

F150Man said:


> I have neither balance or fade control with my headunit. Does this seem right ?




depends how you have it connected


----------



## jbird61801

F150Man said:


> OK, I must confess I have an Audiocontrol LC7i in the audio stream also and find it hard to get it set correctly. I thought I would need it for my base system to create a sub channel. After I got the DSP and figured out I can pretty much create any type of channel on it, including sub, I thought I would use both since I had them. Do you think I should take the LC7i out of the mix and connect the DSP408 with high level (speaker wire) inputs ? I have read reviews on the DSP408 that says it doesn't seem to work well with high level inputs. Also, it seems that after the DSP408 does all the summing magic, I have neither balance or fade control with my headunit. Does this seem right ?


I didn't have very good luck using the speaker level inputs from my VW factory head unit. The sound quality is bad, but in my case its probably not a clean signal from the HU.
Did you buy the dsp bluetooth dongle? If so, have you tried streaming music from a phone or tablet directly to the dsp via bluetooth? That would bypass the LC7i somewhat helping you to confirm or eliminate it as a problem. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## jdunk54nl

F150Man said:


> OK, I must confess I have an Audiocontrol LC7i in the audio stream also and find it hard to get it set correctly. I thought I would need it for my base system to create a sub channel. After I got the DSP and figured out I can pretty much create any type of channel on it, including sub, I thought I would use both since I had them. Do you think I should take the LC7i out of the mix and connect the DSP408 with high level (speaker wire) inputs ? I have read reviews on the DSP408 that says it doesn't seem to work well with high level inputs. Also, it seems that after the DSP408 does all the summing magic, I have neither balance or fade control with my headunit. Does this seem right ?


I have mine connected via high level and do not have any issues with it. It is worth a shot to try, especially if you struggle with the LC7i and setting it up.


----------



## jtrosky

Yeah, I mean I would want to take as much equipment out of the signal path as possible. I can't imagine that you'd be better off having a completely separate piece of hardware to do the hi->low conversion when the DSP has the ability to do it built-in.


----------



## F150Man

jbird61801 said:


> I didn't have very good luck using the speaker level inputs from my VW factory head unit. The sound quality is bad, but in my case its probably not a clean signal from the HU.
> Did you buy the dsp bluetooth dongle? If so, have you tried streaming music from a phone or tablet directly to the dsp via bluetooth? That would bypass the LC7i somewhat helping you to confirm or eliminate it as a problem.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


yes I have the Bluetooth dongle and use it with my iPhone for tuning but cannot get it to stream music from my phone


----------



## F150Man

jdunk54nl said:


> I have mine connected via high level and do not have any issues with it. It is worth a shot to try, especially if you struggle with the LC7i and setting it up.


Yes I am going to try it. How are the inputs numbered with high level ? LF is 1, RF is 2, LR is 3, RR is 4 ?


----------



## F150Man

jtrosky said:


> Yeah, I mean I would want to take as much equipment out of the signal path as possible. I can't imagine that you'd be better off having a completely separate piece of hardware to do the hi->low conversion when the DSP has the ability to do it built-in.


I know now the DSP can do everything the LC7i can do but in different ways. I originally got the LC7i to get rid of the bass roll-off and the bandpass tunes from my stock headunit. Problem is, both units scramble up the front and rear and left and right while doing summing, etc. and now fade and balance from the headunit are gone and to get the best sound, they must all stay centered. 
If you know how to connect the 8 high level outputs from the stock headunit into the DSP and mix them up while creating 2 sub channels, 4 full range channels, and keep the fade and balance capability, please tell me ! :laugh:


----------



## jdunk54nl

F150Man said:


> I know now the DSP can do everything the LC7i can do but in different ways. I originally got the LC7i to get rid of the bass roll-off and the bandpass tunes from my stock headunit. Problem is, both units scramble up the front and rear and left and right while doing summing, etc. and now fade and balance from the headunit are gone and to get the best sound, they must all stay centered.
> If you know how to connect the 8 high level outputs from the stock headunit into the DSP and mix them up while creating 2 sub channels, 4 full range channels, and keep the fade and balance capability, please tell me ! :laugh:


https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/230-500--dayton-audio-dsp-408-user-manual.pdf

What year f150? Are you using the for-11ck harness? If so then fronts left to in 1, front right to in2, rear left in 3, rear right in 4.

In the dsp mapping/mixer part
In 1 100% -> Out 1 and 3
In 2 100%-> Out 2 and 4
In 1 100% & 2 100% -> Out 7 and 8 for sub
In 3 -> Out 5
In 4 -> out 6

You don't want to use the rear signal on the sub channel because it has a high pass at like 80hz.


----------



## F150Man

jdunk54nl said:


> F150Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know now the DSP can do everything the LC7i can do but in different ways. I originally got the LC7i to get rid of the bass roll-off and the bandpass tunes from my stock headunit. Problem is, both units scramble up the front and rear and left and right while doing summing, etc. and now fade and balance from the headunit are gone and to get the best sound, they must all stay centered.
> If you know how to connect the 8 high level outputs from the stock headunit into the DSP and mix them up while creating 2 sub channels, 4 full range channels, and keep the fade and balance capability, please tell me ! <img src="http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/images/smilies/laugh.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/230-500--dayton-audio-dsp-408-user-manual.pdf
> 
> What year f150? Are you using the for-11ck harness? If so then fronts left to in 1, front right to in2, rear left in 3, rear right in 4.
> 
> In the dsp mapping/mixer part
> In 1 100% -> Out 1 and 3
> In 2 100%-> Out 2 and 4
> In 1 100% & 2 100% -> Out 7 and 8 for sub
> In 3 -> Out 5
> In 4 -> out 6
> 
> You don't want to use the rear signal on the sub channel because it has a high pass at like 80hz.
Click to expand...

Thanks ! I am using the fronts signal 100% for the sub channel. Front and rear signals combined for all 4 full range doors.


----------



## F150Man

Tuning with an RTA and pink noise has helped big time ??????


----------



## F150Man

OK. I got the DSP worked out. I decided to disconnect the LC7i because I realized the redundancy for which I was using it (create a bass channel). I connected the 8 wire high level from my stock headunit and the wires match exactly. Imagine my surprise when I cannot figure out what the heck was going on with the sound then I realize the inputs are reversed when using high level !!! Left front is input 4, right front is input 3, left rear is input 2, and right rear is input 1. WOW ! Now I need to re-do the pink noise and the EQ and work on time alignment. Oh. Also, no discernible noise presently !


----------



## F150Man

jdunk54nl said:


> https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/230-500--dayton-audio-dsp-408-user-manual.pdf
> 
> What year f150? Are you using the for-11ck harness? If so then fronts left to in 1, front right to in2, rear left in 3, rear right in 4.
> 
> In the dsp mapping/mixer part
> In 1 100% -> Out 1 and 3
> In 2 100%-> Out 2 and 4
> In 1 100% & 2 100% -> Out 7 and 8 for sub
> In 3 -> Out 5
> In 4 -> out 6
> 
> You don't want to use the rear signal on the sub channel because it has a high pass at like 80hz.


Sorry, no. This is not accurate for high level inputs.


----------



## jdunk54nl

F150Man said:


> Sorry, no. This is not accurate for high level inputs.


How is it not accurate??? Unless you have the old set of instructions that had In 1 being wire 1 and 2 and not 7 and 8. But the actual dayton DSP had them labeled correctly in the ingrained portion. That doesn't make my statement inaccurate, that just makes dayton's instructions inaccurate, which they fixed.

Or you just wired yours backwards, which does not make my statement inaccurate...


----------



## F150Man

In the above photo, pins 1 & 2 are left front of my headunit output, pins 3 & 4 are right front, pins 5 & 6 are left rear, and pins 7 & 8 are right rear. Those are the high level inputs which correlate to the FUNCTION side which is the actual channels 1-4 inputs. That is not what you say in your post #1112. To be accurate, ch 4 - 100% to 1 & 3, ch 3 - 100% to 2 and 4, SUB = ch 4 - 100% to 7, ch 3 - 100% to 8. Backward from what you posted.


----------



## jdunk54nl

F150Man said:


> In the above photo, pins 1 & 2 are left front of my headunit output, pins 3 & 4 are right front, pins 5 & 6 are left rear, and pins 7 & 8 are right rear. Those are the high level inputs which correlate to the FUNCTION side which is the actual channels 1-4 inputs. That is not what you say in your post #1112. To be accurate, ch 4 - 100% to 1 & 3, ch 3 - 100% to 2 and 4, SUB = ch 4 - 100% to 7, ch 3 - 100% to 8. Backward from what you posted.


Ah, so you wired it backward on the DSP.

Not a big deal, but again, that doesn't make my statement wrong....It would be 100% correct if you wired it correctly. You just had to adjust based on your wiring.


----------



## F150Man

jdunk54nl said:


> F150Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the above photo, pins 1 & 2 are left front of my headunit output, pins 3 & 4 are right front, pins 5 & 6 are left rear, and pins 7 & 8 are right rear. Those are the high level inputs which correlate to the FUNCTION side which is the actual channels 1-4 inputs. That is not what you say in your post #1112. To be accurate, ch 4 - 100% to 1 & 3, ch 3 - 100% to 2 and 4, SUB = ch 4 - 100% to 7, ch 3 - 100% to 8. Backward from what you posted.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so you wired it backward on the DSP.
> 
> Not a big deal, but again, that doesn't make my statement wrong....It would be 100% correct if you wired it correctly. You just had to adjust based on your wiring.
Click to expand...

It is wired correctly. The inputs and outputs are not the same with high level as they are with low level. Inputs 1 & 2 aren't used at all as they are the rear channels from the headunit of my F150 and are factory bandpassed. They inputs are reversed when using high level and the full range signal comes from inputs 3 & 4.


----------



## jdunk54nl

F150Man said:


> It is wired correctly. The inputs and outputs are not the same with high level as they are with low level. Inputs 1 & 2 aren't used at all as they are the rear channels from the headunit of my F150 and are factory bandpassed. They inputs are reversed when using high level and the full range signal comes from inputs 3 & 4.


Again man, YOU wired the front left inputs to input 4 (white/white&black). YOU wired the front right to input 3 (grey/grey&black). You can wire front left to whatever input you want, as long as you realize which one it is. It doesn't really matter. You could have front left be input 3, as long as you know that.



F150Man said:


> OK. I got the DSP worked out. I decided to disconnect the LC7i because I realized the redundancy for which I was using it (create a bass channel). *I connected the 8 wire high level from my stock headunit and the wires match exactly. *Imagine my surprise when I cannot figure out what the heck was going on with the sound then I realize the inputs are reversed when using high level !!! Left front is input 4, right front is input 3, left rear is input 2, and right rear is input 1. WOW ! Now I need to re-do the pink noise and the EQ and work on time alignment. Oh. Also, no discernible noise presently !



You said you used the speed wire colors, well the colors do not really matter. Just because you matched the colors, that is why it is wired backward. YOU ASSUMED the colors matched the channels. They don't. The "correct" wiring diagram is etched on the DSP and in the instructions posted above.

YOU didn't follow the wiring instructions of which channel is which for input 1/2/3/4.

It ultimately doesn't really matter, BUT if you followed the front left from your HU and used the Dayton DSP purple wires (Pins 7 and 8), they would have been input 1.


----------



## F150Man

No. I wired it correctly and am using it correctly per the Dayton instructions. I initially was using it incorrectly because of your incorrect posting. I am trying to get this correct info on here for others but you seem to want it to remain confusing like you posted.


----------



## jdunk54nl

F150Man said:


> No. I wired it correctly and am using it correctly per the Dayton instructions. I initially was using it incorrectly because of your incorrect posting. I am trying to get this correct info on here for others but you seem to want it to remain confusing like you posted.


So simple question then.
Did you connect the front left from the HU to the pin 7 and 8 on the dayton (should be the wires that are colored purple/purple black on the dayton)

If you did not, then you didn't follow this, which then you can't map the ins/outs the same as it wasn't wired in the same manner. 





jdunk54nl said:


> https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/230-500--dayton-audio-dsp-408-user-manual.pdf
> 
> What year f150? Are you using the for-11ck harness? If so then fronts left to in 1, front right to in2, rear left in 3, rear right in 4.
> 
> In the dsp mapping/mixer part
> In 1 100% -> Out 1 and 3
> In 2 100%-> Out 2 and 4
> In 1 100% & 2 100% -> Out 7 and 8 for sub
> In 3 -> Out 5
> In 4 -> out 6
> 
> You don't want to use the rear signal on the sub channel because it has a high pass at like 80hz.



*It really does not matter as long as you know which HU side is wired to what in on the dsp.*

I know the "standard" speaker wire coloring is that white/white black would be front left. Unfortunately dayton messed this up and put purple/purple black as in 1 and not white/white black. They made white/white black in 4. 

So if you *do not match wire colors* and instead just match Front left to in 1 (purple/purple black) then front left is in 1. 

If you *match wire colors only*, then yes, front left will _probably_ be in 4 on the mixer, as long as you wired white/white black to front left on HU.


On my wife's suv with factory HU and dayton:

I had white/white black from my speedwire wired to the front left of the HU output. I connected this white/white black to the purple/purple black on the dayton so it was in 1.

Front right is grey/grey black on the speed wire connected on the HU. When it got to the DSP, I wired the grey/grey black of the speedwire to the green/green black for in 2.

Doing the mismatched colors was hard on my OCD, but I don't have to see those as they are tech flexed. I will have to see the Dayton inputs being mapped "backwards" everytime I open the software so I opted to mismatch my colors so I didn't have to see that in the software.


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## hankhowdy1

I have yet to install my 408. I have never heard it before or any DSP for that matter. 

If all I need is a two way active with sub and no fancy features. Will I find better sound with another sub $400 DSP? 

Does this DSP image well? 

I heard an opinion that this DSP is really bad compared to even the DSR 1. 

All I want is crossover, T/A, independent level control and parametric EQ. 

I was able to get this DSP for $70. 

I just don’t want to waste my time. 

I could save for a few months and get something better. 


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## Jeffdachefz

hankhowdy1 said:


> I have yet to install my 408. I have never heard it before or any DSP for that matter.
> 
> If all I need is a two way active with sub and no fancy features. Will I find better sound with another sub $400 DSP?
> 
> Does this DSP image well?
> 
> I heard an opinion that this DSP is really bad compared to even the DSR 1.
> 
> All I want is crossover, T/A, independent level control and parametric EQ.
> 
> I was able to get this DSP for $70.
> 
> I just don’t want to waste my time.
> 
> I could save for a few months and get something better.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


uhm idk who told you that but this is way better than the rockford dsr1 which is bug central with sh*t connection issues, which in a few months gets way worse and the EQ doesn't really do jack sh*t. Reliability is absolutely piss poor, i know 3 owners that the product didnt even last a full year before it spazzing out and becoming unusable.

The dayton is better in every way and has everything you need, just throw it in. Make sure you get the bluetooth dongle so you dont have to plug in a laptop, just tune from your phone.


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## hankhowdy1

Jeffdachefz said:


> uhm idk who told you that but this is way better than the rockford dsr1 which is bug central with sh*t connection issues, which in a few months gets way worse and the EQ doesn't really do jack sh*t. Reliability is absolutely piss poor, i know 3 owners that the product didnt even last a full year before it spazzing out and becoming unusable.
> 
> 
> 
> The dayton is better in every way and has everything you need, just throw it in. Make sure you get the bluetooth dongle so you dont have to plug in a laptop, just tune from your phone.




Have you listened to other DSPs as well? Imaging was ok? 


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## Bayboy

The Dayton is the lowest on the totem pole. Save yourself the trouble. I'd be willing to take it off your hands

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## JH1973

When it comes to buying and using a DSP I would never go with the "low budget" unit. I understand people only have so much extra money to spend,but if you want to go the DSP route it is worth saving your pennies and waiting longer to buy a good quality unit like Zapco,MiniDSP or Helix,etc. Just my opinion


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## hankhowdy1

JH1973 said:


> When it comes to buying and using a DSP I would never go with the "low budget" unit. I understand people only have so much extra money to spend,but if you want to go the DSP route it is worth saving your pennies and waiting longer to buy a good quality unit like Zapco,MiniDSP or Helix,etc. Just my opinion




What are some reasons? 


I have been saving since July to install my active set up. I miss music. All I have right now is talk radio. Lol. 


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## Truthunter

hankhowdy1 said:


> I have yet to install my 408. I have never heard it before or any DSP for that matter.
> 
> If all I need is a two way active with sub and no fancy features. Will I find better sound with another sub $400 DSP?
> 
> Does this DSP image well?
> 
> I heard an opinion that this DSP is really bad compared to even the DSR 1.
> 
> All I want is crossover, T/A, independent level control and parametric EQ.
> 
> I was able to get this DSP for $70.
> 
> I just don’t want to waste my time.
> 
> I could save for a few months and get something better.


The Dayton will do everything you need it to. IMO your system will image as good as with any other traditional DSP. With all other factors constant; imaging will be limited by the "tuner's" ability to: properly measure, interpreting those measurements, and determine appropriate corrective adjustments in the DSP.


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## Iamsecond

I have actually been considering selling my minidsp 6x8 and putting in one of these Dayton’s. I put one in my daughters car and the sound stage is upfront centered on the dash. Her car is a 2011 Camry and everyone comments about how great it sounds and images. Just put the Dayton in and enjoy it. It’s super easy to adjust and has plenty of ability to make your car sound amazing.

10 bands of parametric eq per channel should be plenty to get things sorted out. The only reason I have not made the change is the amps I am using are strong 4 channel amps for a three way front stage and two channels bridges to a sub. These amps do not have a bass control so I use the minidsp controller for the sub control.


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## hankhowdy1

I think I have been watching too much 5Star car stereo on you tube. Dean does not like the 408 at all. He’s tried quite a few DSPs and thinks this one not worth the time. 

I will install it eventually and give it a shot. Thanks for the encouragement. 


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## Bayboy

Get rid of it

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## Bayboy

By the way, I just peeped that 5 star YouTube channel. Please stop watching that mess! I couldn't go through a whole video without shaking my head. 

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## jdunk54nl

hankhowdy1 said:


> I think I have been watching too much 5Star car stereo on you tube. Dean does not like the 408 at all. He’s tried quite a few DSPs and thinks this one not worth the time.
> 
> I will install it eventually and give it a shot. Thanks for the encouragement.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have a helix dsp.2 in my truck and the Dayton in the wife's suv. The Dayton doesn't have as many options as the helix, but for $150 compared to $400 used for the helix, it is a really good option. I have zero complaints about it and would definitely use it again.

If someone wanted to, they could run two of them piggybacked and double the eq and delay options and still only be out $300.


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## Iamsecond

You summed it up nicely. I was going to write that the main difference is “options” and “features”. For the vast majority of people, the Dayton is more thank sufficient time get a great audio system. Just make sure you have the WiFi dongle. That makes a huge difference making adjustments and setting things up.


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## hankhowdy1

Iamsecond said:


> You summed it up nicely. I was going to write that the main difference is “options” and “features”. For the vast majority of people, the Dayton is more thank sufficient time get a great audio system. Just make sure you have the WiFi dongle. That makes a huge difference making adjustments and setting things up.




Thanks. I did get the Bluetooth dongle. Feeling better about things. 


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## hankhowdy1

Bayboy said:


> By the way, I just peeped that 5 star YouTube channel. Please stop watching that mess! I couldn't go through a whole video without shaking my head.
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!




I think there is some good installing info, but maybe not so much in system design?


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## jtrosky

The only "bad" thing I've heard about the Dayton 408 is that the bass knob causes system noise. So I would avoid the bass knob if you can. Otherwise, as long as 10-band PEQ is enough for you, then you should be fine.

Hell, I even made the DSR-1 work out very well for me, but it took a lot of time and had to deal with a lot of "strange" issues along the way. But once I got it all setup, it sounded pretty damn good. I recently upgraded to the DSP.3 and do like it a lot better though. 

ALso, 5StarCarStereo is a VERY reputable company - not sure why someone says to ignore them - they are very well regarded in the industry... I would definitely pay attention to them and their videos. Dean knows his sh!t!!!


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## hankhowdy1

jtrosky said:


> The only "bad" thing I've heard about the Dayton 408 is that the bass knob causes system noise. So I would avoid the bass knob if you can. Otherwise, as long as 10-band PEQ is enough for you, then you should be fine.
> 
> Hell, I even made the DSR-1 work out very well for me, but it took a lot of time and had to deal with a lot of "strange" issues along the way. But once I got it all setup, it sounded pretty damn good. I recently upgraded to the DSP.3 and do like it a lot better though.
> 
> ALso, 5StarCarStereo is a VERY reputable company - not sure why someone says to ignore them - they are very well regarded in the industry... I would definitely pay attention to them and their videos. Dean knows his sh!t!!!




I wonder why he thinks the 408 is not a decent DSP. Not even for $150. He says to save and get something better. 

Oh well. I’m still going to try it out. 


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## jtrosky

hankhowdy1 said:


> I wonder why he thinks the 408 is not a decent DSP. Not even for $150. He says to save and get something better.
> 
> Oh well. I’m still going to try it out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven't seen the video about the Dayton. I'm not sure why he says to avoid it. I'll have to look for that video (if you have a link handy, that would help).

I actually bought a 408 just to play with, but haven't done anything with it yet. 

He may just feel that it's worth a little extra $$ to move up to a minidsp or Helix or something. To me, the DSP is one of the most important parts of an audio system. Everything runs though it and it can really make the difference between an awesome-sounding system and an "ok" sounding system. Even though I eventually got good results from the DSR-1, I decided that I wanted to get something a little better, which is why I upgraded to a Helix DSP.3. Just like anything else, you *generally* get what you pay for... The Helix software is MUCH better than the DSR-1 software and the quality of the parts used to make the item is also vastly different. 

Worst case, if you find that you don't like it, you can always upgrade later without much work.... But I'm sure it will be fine for most systems.


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## hankhowdy1

jtrosky said:


> I haven't seen the video about the Dayton. I'm not sure why he says to avoid it. I'll have to look for that video (if you have a link handy, that would help).
> 
> I actually bought a 408 just to play with, but haven't done anything with it yet.
> 
> He may just feel that it's worth a little extra $$ to move up to a minidsp or Helix or something. To me, the DSP is one of the most important parts of an audio system. Everything runs though it and it can really make the difference between an awesome-sounding system and an "ok" sounding system. Even though I eventually got good results from the DSR-1, I decided that I wanted to get something a little better, which is why I upgraded to a Helix DSP.3. Just like anything else, you *generally* get what you pay for... The Helix software is MUCH better than the DSR-1 software and the quality of the parts used to make the item is also vastly different.
> 
> Worst case, if you find that you don't like it, you can always upgrade later without much work.... But I'm sure it will be fine for most systems.




He didnt have too much negative things to say when it was reviewed, but as time has passed and viewers have asked about it, his opinion has become more and more negative about it. At 30:30 he talks about the 408.  https://youtu.be/0d8qW-O_8uI


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## jtrosky

Yeah, he was pretty blunt about it in that video.  "They suck".... He said they just don't sound as good to other DSP's that he's used. Dean is not a typical "if it cost more, it has to be better" kind of guy, so there had to be something pretty major that made him dislike it so much. Who knows though, maybe he just got one that was defective or something....

Again, while I do have one, I've never even used it at all, so I can't say either way. I just bought it because it was $70 and I couldn't resist.


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## rton20s

I began watching the 5Star videos earlier this year. Mostly the longer stuff (live shows) and just finished the video where they went through the Audison Forza DSP amp. They have also proven a decent source (as far as YouTube sources go) for information on factory integration and basic walkthroughs on new products. 

I have watched the Dayton DSP video, and Dean stated that they were warned by followers about noise issues before they ever tested it. With the controller hooked up in Fernando's car, they had noise. I think that is the sole reason Dean didn't like the Dayton DSP. He typically recommends the DSR1 as his "go to" budget DSP, but we all saw how well it went over on this site and others. 

And while I do think the videos Dean and Fernando do provide value to the community, there are some aspects of the business/industry/hobby/comunity that I would not consider them experts. First, they typically have very little idea how much various items cost, including relative to competing products. Second, they really seem to know the products they carry pretty well but not the variety of products that they don't. I actually respect that Dean in particular refrains from commenting too much about product he is not familiar with and tries not to disparage anything. 

Lastly, I would not consider the guys at 5Star DSP/tuning experts. They have now had their hands on a lot of different DSP products, so they do have some familiarity. At least on a demo/software level. But, if you've done tuning with DSP and have a decent understanding of how the processors and sound in a vehicle work, you'll definitely find some cringe-worthy moments in their videos. I have a feeling that Bayboy stumbled across one/some of those moments in the video he checked out.

Bottom Line: You will not find a better DSP at the price point of the Dayton DSP-408. (They don't even really exist.) If you have noise issues, remove the controller. Use the BT dongle and the app on your phone.


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## jdunk54nl

Most of the DSP's are built upon the same basic architecture. I know a respected source that has seen the insides of many and has verified the core parts are very similar...


If you really want to have some fun and like doing whatever you want with a DSP...pick up this little guy for $280 ...I may pick one up and see what I can do with it. I will tell you that it has whatever filter you want. Downside is it only has 2v outs.

https://www.analog.com/en/design-ce...on-boards-kits/eval-adau1466.html#eb-overview

and this usb adapter
https://www.analog.com/en/design-ce...ml?doc=EVAL-ADAU1466Z-UG-1135.pdf#eb-overview

It definitely is not a super user friendly software, but it has everything in there.


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## Bayboy

Can't remember the few that I watched, don't really want to honestly. For a person that hasn't stumbled upon a few of the forums that get more into detail of various gear and tuning, yeah I can see how they're viewed as great. However, putting the Bit One, DSR1 and some other products on a pedestal without even mentioning ones far greater was a turnoff. Basically while refraining from mentioning brands they may not carry, they're also trapping onlookers into examples of what we see here. 

That said, there's no way I would place the RF unit above the Dayton. Even the last RF dsp proved to be crap with worthless support. If current to this day, I would still choose the Dayton. If it still puzzles you as to my view... well I don't know what to tell you except don't use the Dayton, get the DSR1. 

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## Iamsecond

So I think I can agree with bayboy. Don’t install that piece of crap Dayton. Sell it to one of us for $70.00. Lol

Also, I put the controller in my daughters car and no noise. Totally silent.  Must be something in certain cars or installs that is causing noise issues.


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## hankhowdy1

Bayboy said:


> Can't remember the few that I watched, don't really want to honestly. For a person that hasn't stumbled upon a few of the forums that get more into detail of various gear and tuning, yeah I can see how they're viewed as great. However, putting the Bit One, DSR1 and some other products on a pedestal without even mentioning ones far greater was a turnoff. Basically while refraining from mentioning brands they may not carry, they're also trapping onlookers into examples of what we see here.
> 
> That said, there's no way I would place the RF unit above the Dayton. Even the last RF dsp proved to be crap with worthless support. If current to this day, I would still choose the Dayton. If it still puzzles you as to my view... well I don't know what to tell you except don't use the Dayton, get the DSR1.
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!




Ah.... I didn’t realize you were using sarcasm before. Lol. 

I got mine from PE for $70. I’m going to run it. 




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## hankhowdy1

jtrosky said:


> Yeah, he was pretty blunt about it in that video.  "They suck".... He said they just don't sound as good to other DSP's that he's used. Dean is not a typical "if it cost more, it has to be better" kind of guy, so there had to be something pretty major that made him dislike it so much. Who knows though, maybe he just got one that was defective or something....
> 
> Again, while I do have one, I've never even used it at all, so I can't say either way. I just bought it because it was $70 and I couldn't resist.




Maybe there was something wrong with the one they were testing like you said. He’s stated before that lower end DSPs don’t sound as “wide” as higher end DSPs. 

He stated the 408 didn’t image well. 

I too got mine for $70 from PE. I’m going to run it. 




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## hankhowdy1

rton20s said:


> I began watching the 5Star videos earlier this year. Mostly the longer stuff (live shows) and just finished the video where they went through the Audison Forza DSP amp. They have also proven a decent source (as far as YouTube sources go) for information on factory integration and basic walkthroughs on new products.
> 
> 
> 
> I have watched the Dayton DSP video, and Dean stated that they were warned by followers about noise issues before they ever tested it. With the controller hooked up in Fernando's car, they had noise. I think that is the sole reason Dean didn't like the Dayton DSP. He typically recommends the DSR1 as his "go to" budget DSP, but we all saw how well it went over on this site and others.
> 
> 
> 
> And while I do think the videos Dean and Fernando do provide value to the community, there are some aspects of the business/industry/hobby/comunity that I would not consider them experts. First, they typically have very little idea how much various items cost, including relative to competing products. Second, they really seem to know the products they carry pretty well but not the variety of products that they don't. I actually respect that Dean in particular refrains from commenting too much about product he is not familiar with and tries not to disparage anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Lastly, I would not consider the guys at 5Star DSP/tuning experts. They have now had their hands on a lot of different DSP products, so they do have some familiarity. At least on a demo/software level. But, if you've done tuning with DSP and have a decent understanding of how the processors and sound in a vehicle work, you'll definitely find some cringe-worthy moments in their videos. I have a feeling that Bayboy stumbled across one/some of those moments in the video he checked out.
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom Line: You will not find a better DSP at the price point of the Dayton DSP-408. (They don't even really exist.) If you have noise issues, remove the controller. Use the BT dongle and the app on your phone.




Thank you very much for your response. 

I got mine for $70 from PE. I won’t be such a let down if it’s not up to snuff. 

I didn’t bother with the controller since there were noise issues. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bayboy

I question anyone and their reasonings when they say a piece of gear is supposedly responsible for imaging outside of tuning. Now perhaps their skill in tuning isn't so great or they ran out of EQ bands necessary to take whatever they installed.... that's if they actually used it. 

Here's the catch with DSP, especially limited ones no matter the brand. It should be mostly used to tame the wild acoustics of the vehicle, not unruly drivers and sub par installs. This means that when you have limited bands, you must give speakers the ultimate advantage as much as possible or you're willing to give, BEFORE applying EQ so that minimal EQ is wasted on speaker corrections. Not to say they're doing a less than stellar install, but familiarity with tuning should make you go the extra mile to make sure it isn't an additional problem any DSP has to handle. All of this affects the level of effects we seek... imaging, centering, etc. So to say it didn't image as good... well you have to wonder. 

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


----------



## rton20s

Bayboy said:


> I question anyone and their reasonings when they say a piece of gear is supposedly responsible for imaging outside of tuning...
> ...So to say it didn't image as good... well you have to wonder.


----------



## Iamsecond

Yeah, tell that to the people who sit in my daughters Camry. 
All across the dash and a deep stage centered on the dash. I guess I have a unicorn Dayton dsp. To top it off I have db drive euphoria es7 components as well and they are not favored either. 
The issue is that anyone can make a system with a helix sound like trash. The brand does not necessarily determine the end result. And there are budget diamonds out there. 

I remember the old original earthquake amps were crazy powerful, underrated and cheap and people talked trash about them until they listened to a system blind and then all the sudden those amps were the bees knees. But, they were competing with the original 
Hifonics amps and the name recognition of hifonics won the day. 

“Inferior” gear can be installed and tuned to make a spectacular “budget” system that can embarrass people who spend 1000’s more. I used to be a brand whore until a friend of mine blew the socks off all of us with his “budget” system. Consisting of carver amps, Jvc head unit, Kenwood comps and 2 Pyle pro 15’s. In an s10 regular cab truck. I stopped being a brand whore from then on. Lol.


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## gjmallory

Wait... Carver car amps were amazing ...but definitely not cheap. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## cathul

Bayboy said:


> That said, there's no way I would place the RF unit above the Dayton. Even the last RF dsp proved to be crap with worthless support. If current to this day, I would still choose the Dayton. If it still puzzles you as to my view... well I don't know what to tell you except don't use the Dayton, get the DSR1.


Dean likes the DSR1 more, just because it brings a Maestro AR with it, which makes integration in supported cars a lot easier and gives you the choice of using the amps of your choice in contrast to the standalone Maestro AR.
You just have to take a view from their point... they are dealing with lots of customers and need simpler solutions more than custom solutions i guess.
And from this point of view if you can use a DSR1 with a premade Maestro harness to get a clean signal out of a car and have a DSP at the same time that's a bonus from their point of view. The Dayton may be good in regards to a price/performance point of view, but still needs more effort in an install. It's often just not plug-n-play as the DSR1. A DSR1 just makes installation a lot easier than a standalone DSP.

At the same time Dean and Fernando also say, that there are lots of better DSPs than the DSR1 quality and feature wise, but most of them don't match the ease of integrating into lots of modern cars, especially when the customer doesn't want to pay a premium for a better DSP.
I myself use a DSR1 as integration device and as global EQ before my Mosconi D2 100.4 DSP, which handles all time alignment, channel EQ, channel levels, crossovers and stuff. 
Why the DSR1? Well, i had custom made plugs at the stock amps location in my Mustang which broke after 1 1/2 year of use and with the DSR1 it was possible to get rid of all the custom stuff and turn everything back to stock wiring. In addition the Mosconi amps are not AR compatible. None of the things available in Europe are, tbh. You cannot even get the AR-integration data cable for the Audison amps in Europe, you have to get them from the USA to use a Maestro AR in a US car in Europe. So the DSR1 just plugs in and works without too much trouble (at least in my car). Support from Idatalink is top notch, but i'm also glad i didn't need any support from Rockford Fosgate up to this point.


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## Bayboy

No need to write all of that because my mind is still not changed. The simple fact IS apples are being compared to oranges and because one is sold by, its given the thumbs up and the other put down with the evil eye put upon it. Plus, the Dayton was not designed for complex integration. That would drive cost up. Just stop it. 

On the other hand, perhaps I've become a bit harsh over the years in my judgement of shops & dealers. I get their point but it's like they just can't help but to overly praise & push what they sell regardless. Maybe being a DIY-er has spoiled me over the 29 years to expect something different. But I digress... have fun kiddos.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## cathul

Well, 5 Star praises the VXi amps from JL and also their DSPs, although they don't sell them.
Liking or disliking something always is some kind of a personal choice. If they like the DSR1 more for their integration tasks than the Dayton? Well, so be it.
You like the Dayton? Great, use it and be happy. And after all, that's what they also say almost everytime in their shows. You like something they don't like? Great, go ahead and use it and be happy. Cause being happy is what it's all about, right?


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## Bayboy

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## F150Man

I have the Bluetooth dongle and the wired controller and no noise. I also think the controller is kinda redundant with the phone app. Sure, I guess it is a lot faster to just pick up the controller and choose a preset but I do not change the master volume anyway and I have one preset named RAWK and keep it there and just update it when/if I change a setting on the phone app. Also, it is not a 'bass knob' it is a master volume knob. It changes the volume of the entire system with that 1 knob. 
I have been watching 5 Star Car Stereo on youtube for about 3 months. Dean is a control freak and very OCD and hasn't really used the DSP-408. All he has ever said is it doesn't sound as good as any other DSP. He really only recommends the most expensive car audio gear like Audison, Hertz, etc or whatever that shop sells. I like that he also uses and recommends Audiocontrol tho. I think it is a very good company. 

Now this - Is it OK to mix in 2 input channels 100% each to 1 output ? For example - both left channel high level inputs to the left channel outputs, both right channel high level inputs to the right channel outputs, etc ? Asking for a friend ...


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## Bayboy

It's a bit early so maybe im reading your question wrong, but any reason you want to do that? 

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


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## F150Man

Bayboy said:


> It's a bit early so maybe im reading your question wrong, but any reason you want to do that?
> 
> Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


IDK, just was thinkin there might be data on rear speaker wires I was missing with only front speaker wire as inputs but I tried combining them and it increased the gain and sounded worse so I went back to normal lol Everything sounds great now that I sorted the time delay and crossovers.


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## ballz50401

Looks like Parts Express has the DSP-408 on sale for $125 until Friday.

I'm strongly thinking about picking this up. I've been playing with car audio for about 25 years and never played with a DSP. I think the time is now. I do have professional experience with automotive electronics and industrial PLC programming so it should be fun to play with.?


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## rton20s

ballz50401 said:


> Looks like Parts Express has the DSP-408 on sale for $125 until Friday.
> 
> I'm strongly thinking about picking this up. I've been playing with car audio for about 25 years and never played with a DSP. I think the time is now. I do have professional experience with automotive electronics and industrial PLC programming so it should be fun to play with.?


Also keep an eye on the restocked / refurbished section on Parts Express. Every so often they pop up for about $70 in there. 

https://www.parts-express.com/resto...-processor-for-home-and-car-audio--88-230-500

Also, follow this thread on DIYMA in case someone catches them available and posts up.

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threads/dayton-refurb-dsp-408.421895/


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## minbari

had mine since they came out. no compaints. the Apt-X BT works flawless, the RCA or speaker level inputs work nicely. the setup is easy and pretty intuitive. there are some advanced features they dont offer like rear fill, pre-EQ, digital inputs or balanced inputs. but if that isnt a deal breaker, then its a majorly good item for $150


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## ImNew

minbari said:


> had mine since they came out. no compaints. the Apt-X BT works flawless, the RCA or speaker level inputs work nicely. the setup is easy and pretty intuitive. there are some advanced features they dont offer like rear fill, pre-EQ, digital inputs or balanced inputs. but if that isnt a deal breaker, then its a majorly good item for $150


What’s pre-eq?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## minbari

ImNew said:


> What’s pre-eq?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ability to add EQ at the input before any processing. people that are trying to EQ out factory EQ curves find this useful.


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## ImNew

minbari said:


> ability to add EQ at the input before any processing. people that are trying to EQ out factory EQ curves find this useful.


Gotcha thanks. Have this on my watch list. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hankhowdy1

minbari said:


> had mine since they came out. no compaints. the Apt-X BT works flawless, the RCA or speaker level inputs work nicely. the setup is easy and pretty intuitive. there are some advanced features they dont offer like rear fill, pre-EQ, digital inputs or balanced inputs. but if that isnt a deal breaker, then its a majorly good item for $150


Can you elaborate on the APT-x BT. Is this the Bluetooth module? Can an I phone use APT-x with the Apple Music app? Is Apt-x a good connection?

Is this a better connection than 2.1 Bluetooth that my Clarion head unit has? 

I have a 408 with the Bluetooth module that I hope I will we be able to install next week during some time off. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## F150Man

Getting better ...


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## gijoe

F150Man said:


> Getting better ...
> 
> View attachment 258887


The drastic difference between about 80hz and 100hz suggests that your subs are much louder than the midbass, and they are not blending well at the crossover point. It's really hard to get good subbass and midbass unless that transition is smooth. Yes, you want the bass to be several dB's higher, but not at the crossover point, you want the frequencies around the crossover point to be be smooth. Does that make sense?


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## F150Man

Ya, it makes sense. My subs are bandpassed at 40-80 -24db LR. Front door 3 way passive is HP at 100 -24db LR. It sounds real good. Subs sound like they are just in front of the fold-down console (F150). Imaging is good. Stereo separation is good. Mids are at corners of dash directly under apillar tweets. I am using a DSP with PEQ. Shows the low end of the midbass meeting the high end of the subs on the graph. Reason the subs are HP @ 40 is they are 2 10" Pioneer flat subs in .35 cf sealed boxes, amped with a mono 500w @ 2 ohms. Very musical.


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## jdunk54nl

If they are sealed, take off the high pass. You don't need it.

If it is this one, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JQTU3QC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You will definitely be fine without a HP


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## F150Man

Yes I have 2 of those under the rear seat, each side, downfiring. They sound great. 1 is about 6 years old and was in my Ranger at only 150w. The fs those subs are around 37 hz so ?


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## jdunk54nl

The box itself being sealed protects them. I never HP my sealed subs and if you google you will find most do not due to the natural protection that a sealed box provides. Ported sure, HP them.

Also, if you really want to keep a HP on them, at least drop it down to 20hz @ 24db/octave

I have that same sub in my wife's SUV. I have about 400w rms going to it without a highpass and it never once seems to be struggling or reaching x-mech.

Here is a good thread on it








Ported or sealed sub box?


I am thinking of putting in a small sub in my system, either an 8" or 10". Most of the boxes I see are ported and very few are sealed. What are the advantages that each has over the other. I am more interested in having a tight sounding bass than having a big booming bass. However, this sub...




www.diymobileaudio.com


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## F150Man

OK. Do you happen to know the F3 freq of those subs or boxes ? Thanks alot for your help.


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## rton20s

Those are high Q subs and the small enclosure really locks down excursion. I've attached a couple of images. The first is the excursion comparison with (yellow) and without (red) the subsonic filter. Second is a simulated frequency response with an approximation of cabin gain. Both have the 80Hz LR4 low pass filter and the same 500W of power applied.


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## F150Man

Thanks. Part of the reason I want a subsonic filter is because they are downfiring and I don't want them hitting the floor.


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## jdunk54nl

F150Man said:


> Thanks. Part of the reason I want a subsonic filter is because they are downfiring and I don't want them hitting the floor.


That would be a terrible design on Pioneer's part then as it is a box that is intended to be a downfire box.

This sub also only has a xmax of 1/4" or 6.5mm


https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Car/TS-SW2502S4_InstructionManual092216.pdf


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## F150Man

I'm not saying they do hit the floor. Maybe there is no chance. I hope not. Wow a 1/4" ! Hard to believe that is all they move and sound so great !


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## rton20s

With the limited excursion on those Pioneer subwoofers, there is no way you'll hit the floor of your cabin. The subs would likely self destruct (bottoming out internally) long before they hit the floor.


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## F150Man

Amazing how little they move and the sound they make.


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## jdunk54nl

F150Man said:


> I'm not saying they do hit the floor. Maybe there is no chance. I hope not. Wow a 1/4" ! Hard to believe that is all they move and sound so great !


Yup, a high shallow excursion is around 15mm. The TW3 is around 15mm and the SI BM MK's are around 15mm.

A high sub excursion in general is around high 20mm's. A JL w6 only has 19mm, the w7 has 29mm. The GB12D4 has 19mm. The SI SQL 12 and RM 12 both have around 29mm.

Also I did this with a single 10" TW3 sub in my truck (14 F150) testing out different locations and upfiring vs. downfiring. Downfiring on the passenger side was the best results. Second best was downfiring in the center seat area. Worst was upfiring and drivers side (the big dips)


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## F150Man

I think it says alot about Pioneer and their engineers.


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## jdunk54nl

F150Man said:


> I think it says alot about Pioneer and their engineers.


I also had JCS model some shallows over on the better site: The pioneer is definitely a great budget pick, but it can't keep up with the better subs. 





Under appreciated Subwoofers - Page 4


During this holiday I have had some free time to just mess around and since its 28 degrees outside I have been messing around modeling different subwoofers and reading into their specifications. Some I have had and some I have done a lot of research into. I think I recognize that there seem to...



www.caraudiojunkies.com


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## rton20s

This will be my last OT post on the subject, but the Pioneer is actually one of the last shallow mounts I would choose for a small sealed enclosure. The best thing about the Pioneer TS-SW is the price. Beyond that, it doesn't have a lot of redeeming value compared to other shallow mounts, in my opninion. 

I understand that there are some people who like them, but I have to wonder how many other shallow mount subwoofers they have heard? Or if they have the same goals as most of the people around here with a focus on SQ vs punchy upper bass. I've modeled a ton in looking for options for my own vehicle as well as some for my brother. Alternates I would consider in order of ascending price...

Cadence SLW10
Dayton LS10
Kicker 43CWRT10
Pioneer TS-Z10LS
Oncore SM10


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## F150Man

My system is totally SQ and has 2 of them. I have heard several different shallow mounts in small sealed enclosures and I think these are close to the best for relatively low power, 300 watts RMS, and SQ.


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## shawndoggy

Can one one point me to the right capacitors to buy to protect my tweeters against the possibility of turn-off pop? A link to something at partsexpress would be much appreciated.


----------



## ballz50401

shawndoggy said:


> Can one one point me to the right capacitors to buy to protect my tweeters against the possibility of turn-off pop? A link to something at partsexpress would be much appreciated.


I believe you want to pick a frequency at or below your tweeters Fs.






Home


Shop Non-Polarized Electrolytic Capacitors at Parts Express. Nonpolarized electrolytic capacitors (bipolar capacitor) are available in a variety of sizes.




www.parts-express.com







https://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/passive-crossover-calculator.asp


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## F150Man

For tweeters, double the Fs for HP filter.


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## jdunk54nl

shawndoggy said:


> Can one one point me to the right capacitors to buy to protect my tweeters against the possibility of turn-off pop? A link to something at partsexpress would be much appreciated.



You want a capacitor around 700-800hz.
A 47uf or 68uf cap are the normal ones to use as they give a 800hz or 600hz respectively for a 6db/oct cutoff on a 4ohm speaker. I went 47uf.








Home


47uF 100V Electrolytic Non-Polarized Crossover CapacitorElectrolytic non-polarized (bi-polar) capacitors are perfect low-cost solutions for use in passive speaker crossovers. These capacitors feature axial leads, a 5% dissipation factor, and are rated at a 100 VDC working voltage which equates...




www.parts-express.com




You don't want it too close to your dsp crossover cutoff otherwise it will impact that performance, but 600hz is plenty of protection for stupid on your tweeters for a couple of seconds.


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## shawndoggy

jdunk54nl said:


> You want a capacitor around 700-800hz.
> A 47uf or 68uf cap are the normal ones to use as they give a 800hz or 600hz respectively for a 6db/oct cutoff on a 4ohm speaker. I went 47uf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Home
> 
> 
> 47uF 100V Electrolytic Non-Polarized Crossover CapacitorElectrolytic non-polarized (bi-polar) capacitors are perfect low-cost solutions for use in passive speaker crossovers. These capacitors feature axial leads, a 5% dissipation factor, and are rated at a 100 VDC working voltage which equates...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.parts-express.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't want it too close to your dsp crossover cutoff otherwise it will impact that performance, but 600hz is plenty of protection for stupid on your tweeters for a couple of seconds.


Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kittenmcnugget

minbari said:


> AAAAAAA said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if you get a call, then you're answering it through the speaker phone or bringing it to your face basically?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> minbari said:
> 
> 
> 
> It should. On android anyway, you have two BT setting. "Audio streams" and "phone calls" you can set different devices for either/or or both. It will only utilize one at a time (so if you get a call, music stops)
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
Click to expand...

because the phone connection is usually handled by the head unit (going out through the high level or analog inputs), does the dsp switch from the bluetooth stream back to the analog inputs in order to output the phone audio (when the audio pauses in the phone for the incomming call)? it seems like as long as you are streaming audio BT, the analog phone signal from the head unit (phone call) will be overridden...
for example my 2013 silverado has phone BT, but not audio BT..


----------



## kittenmcnugget

Frijoles24 said:


> i was reluctant on doing that because on their manual, it said 'using this may cause popping and can damage speakers. please install resistor'
> 
> do you have that problem with the popping?
> i bought an lc2i to avoid that


my read on that was that using the high level turn on would cause the popping... but you could use high level inputs, along side of the remote wire turn on and avoid that. maybe i'm wrong.


----------



## kittenmcnugget

minbari said:


> Depends on input volume, eq setting. I have mine set to 60. It's clean
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Does the red backlighting on the master volume number (in the app) correspond to anything real? or does it just mean it's at the top of the range? mine starts shading at 57 I think, and increases to bold red at 66.


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## jdunk54nl

60 is 0db and 66 is +6db. Each change is 1db. I scoped the signal and even at 66db it was a clean signal. That was with a 0db sine wave. 

Theoretically at 66 you would be adding 6db to the whatever was input to the dsp and if it was any greater than -6db signal (usually only 20hz to 80hz have this chance), it would then be clipping. But this didn't happen for me when I scoped it so I don't really know the point of it.....


----------



## kittenmcnugget

Thanks for that.

I finally got my dsp hooked up (replaced a lc7i that was acting up). The bluetooth streaming is working well, and jumps back and forth appropriately, as my phone is connected to the vehicle BT and the audio to the DSP(my 2013 chevy has no BT audio, only phone).

I have the basics working, but i am struggling to get a reasonable output from the DSP. When i use the aux in or a cd from my head unit to play a 1khz 0db tone, at max voltage i'm getting about 2V peak to peak (oscope), so not even 1V rms.. I am using the high level inputs from the factory head unit. DSP EQ's are all default, with channel volumes at 60 and overall volume at 60.

When i use the bluetooth of the DSP, i only get about half of that. using the same track on my galaxy s10+, or via aptx bluetooth from my laptop, with the device at max volume, i only get about 1V peak to peak on my oscope.

is there some criteria for getting a reasonable output voltage from the DSP? what am i missing? can you only get 3.5V from via the rca inputs?


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## Iamsecond

Do you have the switch on the side set properly? There is a switch for remote, speaker, rca. There are three settings if I remember correctly.


----------



## kittenmcnugget

So, I do have the switch set line li e level turn on, but my understanding is that that only controls the remote turn on. The qa on the PE site have people saying they use remote wire position for speaker level inputs as well.


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## Iamsecond

Try it. There is plenty of signal coming from the dsp. Turn the volume up to 66 on the main volume and roll from there.


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## Jt41time

I have a dsp 408 on it way. So a couple questions....
1. What tones should I use for each of my components? Subs, active 3 way separates up front. (Where should I get clean tones from?)
2. What db for those tones (loud hard rock listener.)
3. Quick set of xover settings for a 3 way up front and a 2 way up front. I keep getting multiple suggestions on the net.


----------



## ballz50401

Jt41time said:


> I have a dsp 408 on it way. So a couple questions....
> 1. What tones should I use for each of my components? Subs, active 3 way separates up front. (Where should I get clean tones from?)
> 2. What db for those tones (loud hard rock listener.)
> 3. Quick set of xover settings for a 3 way up front and a 2 way up front. I keep getting multiple suggestions on the net.


1&2. I like to use 40Hz (-10dB) for my sub, 150Hz (-5 dB) for my midbass, and 1kHz (0dB) for my mid-range & tweeters. I believe I downloaded my tones here:





Test Tones and Tuning Tutorial - All New Links, Again!


I had gotten bored and started making tones so I could tune amps. I made them all in Audacity. They are just simple sine waves that are very easy to make, but I see a lot of people looking for Tones/Sine Waves/Frequencies/Hz Tracks/etc so I figured I could upload some and help them out. All tones...




www.stevemeadedesigns.com





3. Really depends on your setup. I currently have mine set at 100Hz/600Hz/4500Hz (-24dB). It really depends on what range your drivers can play at and how well they blend together. I know you wanna be between 1.5 and 2 times the Fs of your tweeters. I just powered my DSP up a couple weeks ago so I'm still learning myself. There's some good info here to get you started:


https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/A-Straightforward-Stereo-Tuning-Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf


----------



## Iamsecond

Start a new thread and provide more details about current system and you will get more responses.


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## F150Man

Use a 1k and 40 hz tones @ 0db to find max clean volume from the headunit, then max clean volume from the DSP, then use the above tones at -5db to set gains on all the amp channels except use 0db for the tweeter channels. That's how the pros do it.


----------



## Bigg_88

AVMaster said:


> Just got mine installed a few days ago. Nice little unit. My number one feature request over all other would be the ability to use the knob as a subwoofer level control instead of master volume. For the car audio guys this is a big deal. The ability to choose which output channels the know controlls would be a game changer for this little guy.


Does your dsp hiss??


----------



## F150Man

Mine ? Not even a lil bit.


----------



## jongray911

Mine does... More like a constant buzz actually. Contacted customer service and they say it is likely the unit and sent me an RMA to exchange it (interesting because it only buzzes when the remote is plugged in... works flawlessly when I disconnect it).

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## jtrosky

I've heard quite a few reports of the bass knob causing noise issues with the Dayton DSP-408...


----------



## nate0

I've never had any noise (the bad kind). There is a buzz when it's Inactive, meaning when connected via aptx/Bluetooth when audio is inactive for a period of time there is a buzz. I'm guessing it has to do with signal sensing. As soon as a queue music or play pause it's silent no hiss buz or anything. So no constant noise or hiss... I was planning to get a second dayton 408 for my suv but I think I'm gonna try the pioneer deq s1000a instead only just to try something else. Other than the slight buzz when no output I love the Dayton.


----------



## jongray911

Interesting... That's exactly the same behavior that I'm experiencing. Tried it again yesterday with same results (debating now if worth going through RMA process and no audio for X number of days vs. Living with it...)

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Jt41time

Tip........
Connect REM in and not REM out..... The unit turns on with the "out" connected, but zero output....... either that, or it was the left over leads from the speaker in wires touching each other, but i'm betting on the REM in...... Not even BT streaming would work.


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## F150Man

Y'all sure the remote wire isn't touching power wires ? Mine isn't making any noise at all.


----------



## jongray911

Definitely not touching these power lines... interesting tip on the remote connections (will give that a try to see if it changes behavior). Communicating ordering another remote to try process of elimination but will try the remote top first. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Jt41time

I snipped off the spkear in connections and wired up the "in" rem. After that, full signal out from both rca and BT..... Couldnt tell you where the problem was, but it is solved....


----------



## Jt41time

Quick off topic ?
Is there anything wrong with turning down the gain on an amp instead of using a level control from source? Small speakers.... (75w channel going into a tweet.).... safety...


----------



## jongray911

Don't think that would be a problem although the preferred way of setting the speaker level requirements would be to attenuate via level controls (especially if you are using some type of crossover). There is a great writeup on the Audiofrog website that explains how and why you don't need large amounts of power for your hi's and how slopes, etc. Impact the final power levels they actually receive.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Jt41time

I readthat whole pdf..... Love it. Cracked out on that info.....58 pages of awesome....
Im about to buy a tuned mic.... Looking up exactly how they work and a quick question...
They are measured at pink noise level right?. So i should be adjusting my eq to reach those measuements and then adjust for personal pref. if there is a 20hz to 20k hz sweep, if mine system is perfect, i should see the same graph on both the mic level and whats played....(simpilified...)


----------



## jongray911

Correct on the pink noise... As for the flat reading, that will require some post eq work which will likely sound flat once achieved hence the need to follow up with personal taste adjustments...

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## ballz50401

Jt41time said:


> I readthat whole pdf..... Love it. Cracked out on that info.....58 pages of awesome....
> Im about to buy a tuned mic.... Looking up exactly how they work and a quick question...
> They are measured at pink noise level right?. So i should be adjusting my eq to reach those measuements and then adjust for personal pref. if there is a 20hz to 20k hz sweep, if mine system is perfect, i should see the same graph on both the mic level and whats played....(simpilified...)


Here is a YouTube playlist that has helped me a bunch along with using the information from Audiofrog.









Car Audio DSP Tuning


Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.




www.youtube.com





You will learn the most while tuning your own system. Enjoy!


----------



## zeebo56

how do you guys think the alpine h701 processor compares to the dayton dsp? would it be more of a lateral change getting the dayton dsp?


----------



## Iamsecond

That’s a loaded question. The alpine does 5.1 surround and the Dayton doesn’t. But if you don’t have a true center channel then that’s not a bid deal. Also I like new equipment and I also really like the ability to adjust and set things up with my phone instead of dragging my laptop out all the time. Something was not right with the sub I put in my daughters car and I pulled out my phone and connected to the Dayton and adjusted the TA a few clicks on each channel and perfect. With my minidsp I have to grab the laptop, hook everything up etc etc. if you already have the alpine and like it keep it but if not the Dayton is great


----------



## zeebo56

Funny thing is I have a Chevy volt and there is a spot up front for a center channel but I have never done anything like that before. Always set up 2 way actives. With the Alpine I keep the controller up front with me and change things around whenever I feel like it.

I think I'm going to pick up the umik-1 and see if I can figure out Rew to tune my car a bit.


----------



## Iamsecond

Yep. Perfect.


----------



## Jt41time

ballz50401 said:


> Here is a YouTube playlist that has helped me a bunch along with using the information from Audiofrog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Car Audio DSP Tuning
> 
> 
> Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will learn the most while tuning your own system. Enjoy!


Thank you. A good hour or so of cracking out on this.... Love it,..


----------



## Selkec

I had a dsp 408 that also had the buzz/hiss sound. I spoke to someone at a Dayton audio and they asked which head unit I had. They said the Dayton doesn’t like high voltage (over 4v preouts) coming into it and my kenwood 9905 has 5v preouts. I sold it and got the jl twk and had no issues. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bilboaudio

nate0 said:


> I've never had any noise (the bad kind). There is a buzz when it's Inactive, meaning when connected via aptx/Bluetooth when audio is inactive for a period of time there is a buzz. I'm guessing it has to do with signal sensing. As soon as a queue music or play pause it's silent no hiss buz or anything. So no constant noise or hiss... I was planning to get a second dayton 408 for my suv but I think I'm gonna try the pioneer deq s1000a instead only just to try something else. Other than the slight buzz when no output I love the Dayton.


If you do get the Pioneer, can you let me know what you think of it in comparison. I am particularly interested in the calibration feature (input eq?)


----------



## nate0

bilboaudio said:


> If you do get the Pioneer, can you let me know what you think of it in comparison. I am particularly interested in the calibration feature (input eq?)


I can. I do not use a head unit anymore, or have not yet since moving to the Dayton 408. I do not plan on using one either with the Pioneer. So my experience may differ in how I set up features like that. By Nature I am not an SQ guy either, not a die hard one anyway. I lean more towards the basshead of car audio so even on the Dayton I rarely touch the EQ and have mostly stuck with the gain levels and filters so far.


----------



## bilboaudio

With not using a head unit, how do you play and control music whilst driving out of curiosity? Do you just use your phone mounted to the dash or something and stream via bluetooth?

I use android auto with factory head unit but am trying to work out if there is a way to retain the interface but output audio over bluetooth/aux instead of usb.


----------



## nate0

bilboaudio said:


> With not using a head unit, how do you play and control music whilst driving out of curiosity? Do you just use your phone mounted to the dash or something and stream via bluetooth?
> 
> I use android auto with factory head unit but am trying to work out if there is a way to retain the interface but output audio over bluetooth/aux instead of usb.


I use Poweramp on my phone. But that's only cuz I haven't tried any other method that might work better. The Pioneer has an actual remote control which may be even more useful for hands-free. So my phone and then an RCA bass knob.


----------



## nate0

I have an LG v30 plus that supports aptx and so yes I use the Bluetooth dongle. The headphone jack does output with great quality as well but it's a little bit inconveniencing to unplug and plug every time. Plus I have to Reset gains to adjust or compensate for that.


----------



## F150Man

What is everyone's resulting master volume level with max clean input from headunit, while measuring output. Mine doesn't clip 1000 hz at full volume 66/66. 40 hz clips at 66/66. Set my amp gains at 65


----------



## ballz50401

F150Man said:


> What is everyone's resulting master volume level with max clean input from headunit, while measuring output. Mine doesn't clip 1000 hz at full volume 66/66. 40 hz clips at 66/66. Set my amp gains at 65


Were you using a 0db test tone?

I can get a clean output signal on my Sony HU up to 44/50 with a 0db test tone. I can only turn my HU up to 38/50 when measuring the output from the Dayton DSP. I played around with the master volume and have it set to 54/66. I also have the individual outputs set to 57/60 to give me some wiggle room.

So I have my amp gains set with a 0db test tone with the Sony HU set to 38/50, Dayton DSP master volume set to 54/66, and Dayton DSP outputs set to 57/60.

When I have some extra time, I want to check what my max clean output is with a -5db and -10db test tone. On some songs I'm able to turn the Sony HU up to 42/50 without clipping.


----------



## Aldaa

Does anyone here with the DSP-408 have an iPhone XS Max and the BT streaming dongle? Are you actually able to stream with your phone, via bluetooth dongle on the DSP-408, without a head unit or RCAs connected? I'm looking for someone with the exact same configuration listed here. I can connect and control the DSP but I cannot stream audio with my XS Max. I'm assuming this is due to the DSP using aptX codec and iOS uses AAC only. Anyone have this issue?


----------



## F150Man

ballz50401 said:


> Were you using a 0db test tone?
> 
> I can get a clean output signal on my Sony HU up to 44/50 with a 0db test tone. I can only turn my HU up to 38/50 when measuring the output from the Dayton DSP. I played around with the master volume and have it set to 54/66. I also have the individual outputs set to 57/60 to give me some wiggle room.
> 
> So I have my amp gains set with a 0db test tone with the Sony HU set to 38/50, Dayton DSP master volume set to 54/66, and Dayton DSP outputs set to 57/60.
> 
> When I have some extra time, I want to check what my max clean output is with a -5db and -10db test tone. On some songs I'm able to turn the Sony HU up to 42/50 without clipping.


Yes, 0 db. If you max clean output from the headunit is 44, you should be using that to set the max volume for the DSP and on to the next components.


----------



## F150Man

ballz50401 said:


> Were you using a 0db test tone?
> 
> I can get a clean output signal on my Sony HU up to 44/50 with a 0db test tone. I can only turn my HU up to 38/50 when measuring the output from the Dayton DSP. I played around with the master volume and have it set to 54/66. I also have the individual outputs set to 57/60 to give me some wiggle room.
> 
> So I have my amp gains set with a 0db test tone with the Sony HU set to 38/50, Dayton DSP master volume set to 54/66, and Dayton DSP outputs set to 57/60.
> 
> When I have some extra time, I want to check what my max clean output is with a -5db and -10db test tone. On some songs I'm able to turn the Sony HU up to 42/50 without clipping.


Reset everything with 0 db and the max clean output from the head. Remember, everything flat and no crossovers. No loudness. No bass boost. Etc.


----------



## F150Man

Aldaa said:


> Does anyone here with the DSP-408 have an iPhone XS Max and the BT streaming dongle? Are you actually able to stream with your phone, via bluetooth dongle on the DSP-408, without a head unit or RCAs connected? I'm looking for someone with the exact same configuration listed here. I can connect and control the DSP but I cannot stream audio with my XS Max. I'm assuming this is due to the DSP using aptX codec and iOS uses AAC only. Anyone have this issue?


Same here. iPhone XS


----------



## ballz50401

F150Man said:


> Yes, 0 db. If you max clean output from the headunit is 44, you should be using that to set the max volume for the DSP and on to the next components.


I believe the input of the DSP was being clipped. My goal was getting the cleanest and highest voltage output from the DSP. Master volume on the DSP didn't really effect the clipped signal as much as the volume input on the HU. If I set the HU to 44, I would get a very low clean output from the DSP.

Of course I had everything set to flat. Been playing with this stuff for 25 years. First go with a DSP though.

The temps were like 10F when I set everything up. I have everything set pretty nice right now. Sounds great! I do want to spend more time playing with the HU and DSP gains when it gets a bit warmer out and I have some extra time. I actually plan on replacing my HU in the next few months. I might even make a video and upload it to YouTube to help others set up the DSP with an oscilloscope.


----------



## F150Man

You must always use the headunit max clean output to setup each component down the line. Seems like you need a DD-1.


----------



## ballz50401

F150Man said:


> You must always use the headunit max clean output to setup each component down the line. Seems like you need a DD-1.


Yes...in a perfect world.

The Dayton DSP has an input voltage limit. Which means it can and will clip if you overdrive it. An oscilloscope works better if you know how to use it. No DD-1 needed. The goal is to get the max clean (unclipped) voltage down the line so the amplifier has the best signal to work with.

Who knows...maybe I have a bad DSP-408. I recently ordered a couple extra for a couple other projects. I'll report my findings and hard numbers when the time comes. No worries.


----------



## F150Man

I doubt your headunit outputs too much for the DSP input. 
Do you know the high level inputs in that DSP are backwards ? 
Most people can't afford an accurate enough Oscope for their personal car stereo. DD-1 is the answer for a novice or someone who likes fine adjustment and proper gain setting for their car audio.
Have you measured the AC voltage output from your headunit ?


----------



## ballz50401

F150Man said:


> 1. I doubt your headunit outputs too much for the DSP input.
> 
> 2. Do you know the high level inputs in that DSP are backwards ?
> 
> 3. Most people can't afford an accurate enough Oscope for their personal car stereo. DD-1 is the answer for a novice or someone who likes fine adjustment and proper gain setting for their car audio.
> 
> 4. Have you measured the AC voltage output from your headunit ?


1. I was surprised too, but my eyes don't lie. Like I said, I'm going to do more testing and I have extra units to compare with.

2. Yes, I've heard they're backwards. I've read every page on this thread...some parts more than once. I'm not using the high level inputs. I'm using the low level inputs from my Sony HU.

3. I've had extensive education, training, and experience both professionally and personally working on automotive and industrial electronics. I don't have the fanciest oscope, but I can easily see a clipped sine wave with it. I could actually borrow the fancy Fluke oscope at my work to compare with mine, but I doubt there would be a measurable difference.

4. I really can't recall (it was effing cold out), but I believe it was around 3V. I was watching both the waveform and voltage on my oscope trying to get the best signal. The best output I could get from my DSP was below 1V if I turned my HU up to 44 while playing with the output settings in the DSP. It wasn't a soft clip either, it was a very hard clip. That's why I settled on volume 38 on my HU instead of 44.

I wasn't really reaching out for help. Just trying to state my experience when you asked what others have their master volume set to. It's awesome that you were able to get a clean signal at 66 with your max clean HU signal.

I've been tweaking my system for weeks now and I'm very happy with it. I started out playing with my crossover settings, than my TA settings, and finally EQed with REW. My truck sounds amazing! Very similar to my Sennheiser headphones. That was my goal. Cheers!


----------



## F150Man

Does the headunit make 3 volts output at volume 38 ?


----------



## Selkec

Yup i had the same issue that you had ballz50401. I had to settle for much lower max volume on my kenwood. It plays 39 out of 40 unclipped but no matter what I tried my max became 29 with the Dayton. Tried all of the voltage input settings and anything i could. If I made the voltage lower in the sensitivity setting it made a lot of hiss and more noise


----------



## F150Man

What sensitivity settings ?


----------



## Kocil

Dear all,
I have a dsp408 that worked well in the car.
Now, I want to use it for my home audio, using bluetooth as the sound source.
So I just connected the given 12V power supply to the 12VDC socket (the round one),
and the RCA outputs to the active speakers.
The RCA inputs are not connected.
I plug the PSU to the line,
but the DSP just dead silence, the power LED is off.
I'm pretty sure the 12V PSU is good.

Please advice.


----------



## Shadow_419

Kocil said:


> Dear all,
> I have a dsp408 that worked well in the car.
> Now, I want to use it for my home audio, using bluetooth as the sound source.
> So I just connected the given 12V power supply to the 12VDC socket (the round one),
> and the RCA outputs to the active speakers.
> The RCA inputs are not connected.
> I plug the PSU to the line,
> but the DSP just dead silence, the power LED is off.
> I'm pretty sure the 12V PSU is good.
> 
> Please advice.


Try switching the remote turn on sense switch. I'm guessing it may have to be on rca. I don't have that dsp. If not you'll have to wire some thing to provide a turn on signal.


----------



## jtrosky

Kocil said:


> Dear all,
> I have a dsp408 that worked well in the car.
> Now, I want to use it for my home audio, using bluetooth as the sound source.
> So I just connected the given 12V power supply to the 12VDC socket (the round one),
> and the RCA outputs to the active speakers.
> The RCA inputs are not connected.
> I plug the PSU to the line,
> but the DSP just dead silence, the power LED is off.
> I'm pretty sure the 12V PSU is good.
> 
> Please advice.


I just plugged my DSP-408 into a wall output and it powers on automatically as long as the Turn-On switch is set to "REM" mode. Try setting the switch to REM mode and it should power on immediately.


----------



## jongray911

Also may want to look into the input and output settings within the dsp (common occurrence)

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## SymbolA

there is input gain sensitivity on the device? ( i assuming that what the mixer do).

But how i know if the input signal is in clipping? 

For example, the audison bit ten has gain knobs on top with clipping indicator.


----------



## jongray911

To clarify... The Mixer selectors control the individual input levels being fed into the respective dsp input channels (i.e. source), and the output sliders control the individual output levels being fed out of the respective dsp output channels. These controls represent your dsp "gains". 

Note: The master volume controls the overall (i.e. combined) dsp output levels being fed to your amp(s). 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## SymbolA

So no clip indicator in this device?

Will have to use dd1 or oscilloscope?

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## jongray911

No accurate clip indicator ( master volume level turns 'Red' above certain level however it's arbitrary as it's not a true indication of clipping). Best way to check for clipping is with 1) Oscilloscope, 2) Volt Meter, or 3) Your Ears. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## minbari

SymbolA said:


> So no clip indicator in this device?
> 
> Will have to use dd1 or oscilloscope?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


had one of these since they came out. not having clip indicators never been an issue. if you turn down the mater volume and it still sounds bad, the inputs are clipping.
for the most part setting with your ears works fine. an oscope or other useless devices arent going to tel you when its clipping.


----------



## Kocil

jtrosky said:


> I just plugged my DSP-408 into a wall output and it powers on automatically as long as the Turn-On switch is set to "REM" mode. Try setting the switch to REM mode and it should power on immediately.


Thanks. It worked.


----------



## F150Man

An O-scope shows the sine wave of the AC audio signal and definitely will show when that sine wave is clipping.


----------



## minbari

F150Man said:


> An O-scope shows the sine wave of the AC audio signal and definitely will show when that sine wave is clipping.


yes an o-scope will show you if the signal is clipped that is going into the input. it cant show you if the input is being clipped by too much signal. only your ears can do that.


----------



## Fish-N-Chips

EDIT: Nevermind... All the recent responses just showed up.


----------



## F150Man

minbari said:


> yes an o-scope will show you if the signal is clipped that is going into the input. it cant show you if the input is being clipped by too much signal. only your ears can do that.


An o-scope can show the input voltage so you can be sure of not overpowering the inputs.


----------



## GoldRiver

Question:
My Dayton seems to mute itself when the output drops such as on the radio when the signal is weak, or a bass sweep youtube video being played. If I up the volume knob sometimes it cuts back on. Factory head unit.


----------



## Shadow_419

GoldRiver said:


> Question:
> My Dayton seems to mute itself when the output drops such as on the radio when the signal is weak, or a bass sweep youtube video being played. If I up the volume knob sometimes it cuts back on. Factory head unit.


Could it be the amp instead of the Dayton? I've known amps to mute the outputs when it doesn't sense signal.


----------



## Bayboy

GoldRiver said:


> Question:
> My Dayton seems to mute itself when the output drops such as on the radio when the signal is weak, or a bass sweep youtube video being played. If I up the volume knob sometimes it cuts back on. Factory head unit.


I take it you're using the signal sensing turn on circuit

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!


----------



## GoldRiver

Bayboy said:


> I take it you're using the signal sensing turn on circuit


Good guess, I was wondering about that but I keep the switch on remote.



Shadow_419 said:


> Could it be the amp instead of the Dayton? I've known amps to mute the outputs when it doesn't sense signal.


I dont think so. I have a separate amp for the sub.

If I have the FM selected on the head unit, it often mutes everything. Sometimes it just mutes the front and the sub is on. When I played a bass sweep off youtube it muted at 40hz. I bumped the head unit volume up and it came on for a second and muted again at 35hz. My sub plays down to 25hz with regular music. Crossover is a low pass at 80hz, no high pass of course.

I think a video would help. I can make one later.


----------



## cycleguy

What input works best for the T/A on this DSP is it best to input distance or M/S ? and do you have to input the furthest driver as zero delay as I was reading the Audio frog setup document and it suggest that thats what is done. but with this in mind my furthest would be the left mid bass driver as the sub is in the front of my vechicle.


----------



## GoldRiver

cycleguy said:


> What input works best for the T/A on this DSP is it best to input distance or M/S ? and do you have to input the furthest driver as zero delay as I was reading the Audio frog setup document and it suggest that thats what is done. but with this in mind my furthest would be the left mid bass driver as the sub is in the front of my vechicle.


Just put the distances in and you are done. It does the rest.


----------



## jbird61801

cycleguy said:


> What input works best for the T/A on this DSP is it best to input distance or M/S ? and do you have to input the furthest driver as zero delay as I was reading the Audio frog setup document and it suggest that thats what is done. but with this in mind my furthest would be the left mid bass driver as the sub is in the front of my vechicle.


I did the measurements to each driver. I used this calculator to figure out the m/s. Then input in m/s.



http://tracerite.com/



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## F150Man

GoldRiver said:


> Just put the distances in and you are done. It does the rest.


NOT. 
You measure all distances, enter the furthest as 0, subtract the other distances from the furthest, enter those numbers.


----------



## cycleguy

So here we have 2 completley different answers so what it the correct one ? Also do it matter that in my case the rightside midbass is the furthest driver and not the sub ? RHD vehicle


----------



## F150Man

You are driving on the right side of the vehicle and the right side midbass is furthest from you ? 
If you want the subs in the TA, you include them with the correct measurement just like the other speakers.


----------



## cycleguy

F150Man said:


> You are driving on the right side of the vehicle and the right side midbass is furthest from you ?
> If you want the subs in the TA, you include them with the correct measurement just like the other speakers.


Sorry my bad driving on right should have been left side mid bass


----------



## F150Man

Yes sir. 
But it doesn't matter to time alignment where the sub is physically located within the vehicle. It is just another speaker to the DSP program, if you include it.


----------



## edub13

F150Man said:


> NOT.
> You measure all distances, enter the furthest as 0, subtract the other distances from the furthest, enter those numbers.





cycleguy said:


> So here we have 2 completley different answers so what it the correct one ? Also do it matter that in my case the rightside midbass is the furthest driver and not the sub ? RHD vehicle


F150Man has it right for the Dayton. 

Some software wants just the distances, and does the math for you. Kicker's tweeq is like that. Other software, like the Dayton, wants the delays.


----------



## nate0

bilboaudio said:


> If you do get the Pioneer, can you let me know what you think of it in comparison. I am particularly interested in the calibration feature (input eq?)


It should arrive next week some time. It will take me time to install it properly since it is for my SUV and it is all bone stock in there. I still have not planned out where and what else to add in it yet except the subs and amp which I have ready...


----------



## s0undgarden

Did they ever fix the noise problems with the rc remote control? That's the only thing stopping me from purchasing this DSP. The only source I'd be using is aptx bluetooth, so I would need the remote.


----------



## Theslaking

I'm using a phone as volume control in my son's car (I've been driving it for fun untill he can drive in 3 weeks) and it's not the worst thing ever. Not every remote makes unbearable noise. It's a crap shoot but they'll take care of you if it does. Mine is making noise so I'm in contact with them now.


----------



## s0undgarden

Theslaking said:


> I'm using a phone as volume control in my son's car (I've been driving it for fun untill he can drive in 3 weeks) and it's not the worst thing ever. Not every remote makes unbearable noise. It's a crap shoot but they'll take care of you if it does. Mine is making noise so I'm in contact with them now.


Do you have to use the remote that they sell? Or can I use something from another brand?


----------



## Theslaking

I wouldn't use any other brand. The language isn't usually compatible.


----------



## nate0

What noise issue exactly with the remote? I never used personally but it was always hooked up and I never noticed any audible noise added. Was it noticeable in that way?

I use the aptx dongle. So I set the remote and left it using the volume control on my phone. But I later removed it cuz it was just in the way. 

The only difference maybe is that I never hard wired it to my 12v power. Instead I used a cigarette lighter powered power strip and used the supplied DC power supply to plug in and power it up. Every time I turn my ignition the cigarette light gives power to the power strip to turn the dsp on... Maybe?

Or is the noise issue random?


----------



## Theslaking

It's random. But the symptoms alway seem to be the same. Plug it in very loud buzzing. Unplug it stops.


----------



## jongray911

Exactly... I even recently purchased a second dsp to rule it out of these equation=same result thus have narrowed it down to the remote as the source of the buzzing. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Theslaking

I went as far as detaching the remote from the wire to see if it was the cable picking up noise. No difference.

I was aware of the noise issue before I purchased the remote but I was also aware of Dayton/PE's excellent customer service so I'm not worried.


----------



## nate0

I never updated my firmware to the latest. Is it specific to the latest firmware? Or shipped older fw? Why would it be random? There has to be some common variable external or internal to the dsp between all that experience this I would think. Maybe Dayton cannot replicate it yet in the lab therefore no patch yet...


----------



## Theslaking

It's not firmware related. I just figured it was a poorly soldered board. Sometimes it's tacked good, sometimes it's not. Obviously no one knows or the fix would be in.


----------



## nate0

Theslaking said:


> It's not firmware related. I just figured it was a poorly soldered board. Sometimes it's tracked good, sometimes it's not. Obviously no one knows or the fix would be in.


Ok.
It is an rj11 jack so that is very likely that the contacts are just not good enough or where it sits on the board has some flaw. thanks.


----------



## cycleguy

Does anybody have the same issue I have when I first turn my car on you get a quick spike in volume (quite loud) just a quick blast that returns to the set volume the the H/Unit is set at ?


----------



## jongray911

Yup

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Theslaking

Nope but I'm using Bluetooth. Sounds like a high level input issue. Is it?


----------



## jongray911

Have mine connected via rca low level... belive is due to the remote turn on but haven't had time to narrow it down...

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Theslaking

Oh yeah. I don't have mine connected because of the known noise issue.


----------



## cycleguy

My setup is high level into a Audio control Lc2i then rca into dsp. So does anyone have a fix for this as I'm afraid of blowing a speaker or 2


----------



## rton20s

cycleguy said:


> My setup is high level into a Audio control Lc2i then rca ino dsp. So does anyone have a fix for this as I'm afraid of blowing a speaker or 2


What purpose is the LC2i serving? It seems redundant.


----------



## ballz50401

cycleguy said:


> Does anybody have the same issue I have when I first turn my car on you get a quick spike in volume (quite loud) just a quick blast that returns to the set volume the the H/Unit is set at ?


I have the same issue. I'm going to install a small time delay module between the remote out on the DSP and the amplifiers.

It sounds like the Dayton DSP is booting up and it takes a few seconds to level out. I just bought a Helix DSP.2 for my other vehicle and it has a delay built-in.

Here's what I bought on eBay for a few bucks:

DC 12V Delay Relay Shield NE555 Timer Switch Adjustable Module 0 to 10 Second UE


----------



## cycleguy

This gives me Accubass and probably sends a better quality signal to the DSP with it being a Audio control unit


----------



## rton20s

cycleguy said:


> This gives me Accubass and probably sends a better quality signal to the DSP with it being a Audio control unit


I personally don't care for bass restoration devices, but I understand that some people do. The LC2i will not otherwise transform the OE signal into anything of "better quality." Also, the LC2i has a 33Hz HPF built in. So, even if your OE signal extends down to 20Hz, it won't with the AudioControl in place.


----------



## cycleguy

As my vehicle is a 2017 and I'm using the stock H/U i bet there is some bass roll off being done so it just belt and braces for my setup. Sounds good to my ears with just a tune by ear not a competition vehicle


----------



## rton20s

cycleguy said:


> As my vehicle is a 2017 and I'm using the stock H/U i bet there is some bass roll off being done so it just belt and braces for my setup. Sounds good to my ears with just a tune by ear not a competition vehicle


At the end of the day, being satisfied with your own system is all that matters. I was just providing you with the information, in case you didn't already know.

Additionally, the DSP-408 has a great feature that can likely address most cases of a rolled off signal. EQ 1 on any channel can be changed from a parametric EQ to a low shelf filter. You can still adjust the frequency, slope (6 or 12dB/Octave) and level. EQ 10 on any channel has a similar feature, except it is a high shelf filter.


----------



## blammo585

rton20s said:


> I personally don't care for bass restoration devices, but I understand that some people do. The LC2i will not otherwise transform the OE signal into anything of "better quality." Also, the LC2i has a 33Hz HPF built in. So, even if your OE signal extends down to 20Hz, it won't with the AudioControl in place.


That's why I didn't go with the Audio Control a few weeks ago when I ordered a LOC. I had seen where the frequency response did not go all the way down. Even if what I'm running could not play that low, I don't like knowing a device in the chain is limiting what's going on.


----------



## Theslaking

There's tons of content below 33hz. That just pisses me off that they do that. They know if your using that product your installing aftermarket speakers that can handle it. I never knew that.


----------



## blammo585

Theslaking said:


> There's tons of content below 33hz. That just pisses me off that they do that. They know if your using that product your installing aftermarket speakers that can handle it. I never knew that.


Go to Crutchfield and look under details, AudioControl LC2i (Black) 2-channel line output converter for adding amps to your factory system at Crutchfield. Frequency response 33 - 100,000. They limit the bass response but the highs play into the stratosphere.

Oddly enough, the Lc6i has what I'd call a normal frequency response of 10 - 22,000. I don't understand why they chose to limit the response of one LOC but the rest of their line is "normal". I will bet most people buy the LC2i to add a subwoofer to their factory system. Why bother with the whole Accubass if you're going to turn around and limit the frequency?


----------



## nate0

blammo585 said:


> That's why I didn't go with the Audio Control a few weeks ago when I ordered a LOC. I had seen where the frequency response did not go all the way down. Even if what I'm running could not play that low, I don't like knowing a device in the chain is limiting what's going on.


You can custom make your own high pass filter for the sub output or they have a selection of other modules. Some of their newer units allow you to remove the module completely. My older line drive did not have that capability. I owned one of their older line drivers matrix 6 concert series. Really good tech and it worked flawlessly even being over 7 or 8 years old I think. I would not mind owning one of their full range amps though.


----------



## HCWLSU101

How is it recommended to run a single sub off the DSP? I linked the two channels and selected both inputs and I get great bass. Selecting an input on each channel is much less.


----------



## nate0

HCWLSU101 said:


> How is it recommended to run a single sub off the DSP? I linked the two channels and selected both inputs and I get great bass. Selecting an input on each channel is much less.
> 
> View attachment 269668
> View attachment 269668


That’s how I did it. Assign a channel linked add a low pass filter and send that to the sub amp(s).

Edit: Actually I see now what you are doing. I’m assuming You’re splitting left and right inputs between 1 and 2? If you assign only source 1 or only source 2 it’s less preamp signal. Correct? If you’re not touching your amp gain when assigning less channels then there’s less signal to amplify


----------



## HCWLSU101

It does appear on the surface to be less preamp signal signal with only one input selected vs. two. That’s what I’m confused about. I thought the only function of the mixer was to mix, not to increase input gain. Sum channels to get a full signal.


----------



## Ali-323i

HCWLSU101 said:


> It does appear on the surface to be less preamp signal signal with only one input selected vs. two. That’s what I’m confused about. I thought the only function of the mixer was to mix, not to increase input gain. Sum channels to get a full signal.


The mixer does just mix the inputs, but if you have 2 identical inputs, the strength of the signal is double vs using just a single. 

Either use an RCA splitter before feeding the sub amp, or send 2 outputs from the Dayton to the sub amp.


----------



## HCWLSU101

So I’m probably clipping the amp this way. Well crap.


----------



## minbari

HCWLSU101 said:


> It does appear on the surface to be less preamp signal signal with only one input selected vs. two. That’s what I’m confused about. I thought the only function of the mixer was to mix, not to increase input gain. Sum channels to get a full signal.


it doesnt have any gain perse. turned up 100% each channel will pass all the signal to the DSP. obviously less than 100% will give less signal. using a splitter is not nessecary. just set the single input to both output channels in the mixer. then use both outputs to the bass amp.

it can sum channels as well but that is not the only function.



HCWLSU101 said:


> So I’m probably clipping the amp this way. Well crap.


not likely unless it sounds clipped.


----------



## HCWLSU101

When both inputs were used it appears it was actually getting more input. I ran a 50hz test tone and it was clipping at the amp per scope. Dropped to one input per channel and no clipping.


----------



## opekone

HCWLSU101 said:


> When both inputs were used it appears it was actually getting more input. I ran a 50hz test tone and it was clipping at the amp per scope. Dropped to one input per channel and no clipping.


I swear the noobs give good advice 

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## hankhowdy1

On my pioneer nex head unit I have 2 sub outputs. 

One of my amps is a 4 channel that will have the rear channels bridged for one sub. 

Since I have stereo patch cables and no mono patch cables, do I connect to head units two sub outputs-two inputs on the Dayton DSP- two inputs on the amplifier? If I did this, would I have to pair two channels in the DSP for the sub output?

Or, should I buy mono patch cables for anything?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HCWLSU101

You can connect both sub outputs to 3 and 4 inputs on DSP and the to rear channels of bridged amp if you want to retain sub control from head unit. Otherwise, you can simply assign left and right input to sub and control from the DSP.


----------



## nate0

A lot of my music I mix down the low pass track to a mono track. Some music is stereo no matter the track. Even sub level signal. Still I use this practice because I use mono amps for my subwoofers. Maybe one day I might try a different class amp for a sub enclosure. However A bridged sub amp or a mono amp (single channel) is normally the standard for a sub. Unless your using a 2 or 4 channel amp for a subwoofer. Why even bother messing around with y adapters or mono patch cables? Wire it, set preamp gains and amp gains properly and Wangaway at it . Or are multi channel amps being used?


----------



## hankhowdy1

nate0 said:


> A lot of my music I mix down the low pass track to a mono track. Some music is stereo no matter the track. Even sub level signal. Still I use this practice because I use mono amps for my subwoofers. Maybe one day I might try a different class amp for a sub enclosure. However A bridged sub amp or a mono amp (single channel) is normally the standard for a sub. Unless your using a 2 or 4 channel amp for a subwoofer. Why even bother messing around with y adapters or mono patch cables? Wire it, set preamp gains and amp gains properly and Wangaway at it . Or are multi channel amps being used?


Just a bridged 4 channel is being used for mid bass and subs. The other 4 channel for midrange and tweeters. 

So in your opinion it’s fine to just run a stereo patch cable all the way through from head unit to DSP to amp. Just make sure to link the two sub outputs in the DSP together since they are both mono. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alain93

hankhowdy1 said:


> On my pioneer nex head unit I have 2 sub outputs.
> 
> One of my amps is a 4 channel that will have the rear channels bridged for one sub.
> 
> Since I have stereo patch cables and no mono patch cables, do I connect to head units two sub outputs-two inputs on the Dayton DSP- two inputs on the amplifier? If I did this, would I have to pair two channels in the DSP for the sub output?
> 
> Or, should I buy mono patch cables for anything?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, only plug into the DSP, front and rear from the HU, keep the sub off. 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk


----------



## nate0

Alain93 said:


> No, only plug into the DSP, front and rear from the HU, keep the sub off.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk


This^^^

take the full range source. Send it to the dsp. From the dsp divvy up your outputs as needed to their corresponding channels/amps.


----------



## hankhowdy1

Alain93 said:


> No, only plug into the DSP, front and rear from the HU, keep the sub off.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk


Well, I would like some sub control from the head unit. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hankhowdy1

nate0 said:


> This^^^
> 
> take the full range source. Send it to the dsp. From the dsp divvy up your outputs as needed to their corresponding channels/amps.


I could use fader as sub level? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nate0

hankhowdy1 said:


> Well, I would like some sub control from the head unit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can do whatever you want. Sending the full range signal to the dsp is standard. You sending that plus the sub out is not. But does not mean it’s wrong. Personally I just use an rca Bass knob.


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## hankhowdy1

hankhowdy1 said:


> I could use fader as sub level?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I see, so you’re saying it’s better to let the sub have a full signal than let the head unit give it the sub out signal since it will be low passed with a slope. 

Makes sense. 

I think I will use the rear output on the head unit and use the fader to adjust sub level. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nate0

hankhowdy1 said:


> I see, so you’re saying it’s better to let the sub have a full signal than let the head unit give it the sub out signal since it will be low passed with a slope.
> 
> Makes sense.
> 
> I think I will use the rear output on the head unit and use the fader to adjust sub level.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As long as you know what you’re getting and are OK with it that’s what matters. Correct. Sub out is already a passive filtered signal. Multiple filters are not always bad but you have to know exactly what signal your sending. You have more control over the original source sending it full range to the dsp first unless you prurposely are trying to dbl up on slopes etc. One of my sub amps uses both 4th order high and low pass filters. the lowest string on the high pas on the amp is 10hz. The Dayton as far as I know does not have a filter setting below 20hz. So I’m forced to use the hp/ss filter on the amp. Same for the low pass. It’s highest setting I think is 300hz. So I’m automatically getting an 8th order filter at the low pass setting on the dsp at the amp because the butter worth filter. So if I had that already and a sub out signal on top of that for my setup it would be way more tweaking then is necessary for compensating and personally it would be a struggle because I’m looking for the least modified signal as possible Preamp.


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## opekone

nate0 said:


> As long as you know what you’re getting and are OK with it that’s what matters. Correct. Sub out is already a passive filtered signal. Multiple filters are not always bad but you have to know exactly what signal your sending. You have more control over the original source sending it full range to the dsp first unless you prurposely are trying to dbl up on slopes etc. One of my sub amps uses both 4th order high and low pass filters. the lowest string on the high pas on the amp is 10hz. The Dayton as far as I know does not have a filter setting below 20hz. So I’m forced to use the hp/ss filter on the amp. Same for the low pass. It’s highest setting I think is 300hz. So I’m automatically getting an 8th order filter at the low pass setting on the dsp at the amp because the butter worth filter. So if I had that already and a sub out signal on top of that for my setup it would be way more tweaking then is necessary for compensating and personally it would be a struggle because I’m looking for the least modified signal as possible Preamp.


Not only is there no control of signal under 20hz, but you cannot defeat or bypass the 20hz highpass filter. Dayton squashing my hair tricks before they even get started. The best you can do is set it to 6db/octave.


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## HCWLSU101

If you have a full signal in front and rear You can use the fader for sub control


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## hankhowdy1

nate0 said:


> As long as you know what you’re getting and are OK with it that’s what matters. Correct. Sub out is already a passive filtered signal. Multiple filters are not always bad but you have to know exactly what signal your sending. You have more control over the original source sending it full range to the dsp first unless you prurposely are trying to dbl up on slopes etc. One of my sub amps uses both 4th order high and low pass filters. the lowest string on the high pas on the amp is 10hz. The Dayton as far as I know does not have a filter setting below 20hz. So I’m forced to use the hp/ss filter on the amp. Same for the low pass. It’s highest setting I think is 300hz. So I’m automatically getting an 8th order filter at the low pass setting on the dsp at the amp because the butter worth filter. So if I had that already and a sub out signal on top of that for my setup it would be way more tweaking then is necessary for compensating and personally it would be a struggle because I’m looking for the least modified signal as possible Preamp.


Thank you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nate0

opekone said:


> Not only is there no control of signal under 20hz, but you cannot defeat or bypass the 20hz highpass filter. Dayton squashing my hair tricks before they even get started. The best you can do is set it to 6db/octave.


So the 20hz signal barrier is actually a high pass? How have you validated this? 

Edit: I don’t use a high pass filter at all on my signal to my sub amp. But assuming that’s how the Dayton processes the signal cutoff at 20hz. Wouldn’t be better to apply a shelf filter? Have you verified in a scope with 20hz? I’m curious...


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## opekone

No I'm basing this entirely off the UI. In the UI there is no way to disable the 20hz highpass.


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## nate0

opekone said:


> No I'm basing this entirely off the UI. In the UI there is no way to disable the 20hz highpass.
> View attachment 269806
> View attachment 269807


Choose defeat.


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## nate0

The Dayton does have a response limit down to 20hz on paper. Kinda one reason I wanted to try the deq-s1000a. Plus the deq was cheaper. No Bluetooth but it allows me to play back over usb from my iPhone in the Neutron app. The functionality and granularity of the Dayton dsp though is great compared to the pioneer. Each has its own set of limitations to offer.


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## opekone

nate0 said:


> Choose defeat.


It's literally right there, what a fool I am! Thanks!


----------



## bilboaudio

nate0 said:


> The Dayton does have a response limit down to 20hz on paper. Kinda one reason I wanted to try the deq-s1000a. Plus the deq was cheaper. No Bluetooth but it allows me to play back over usb from my iPhone in the Neutron app. The functionality and granularity of the Dayton dsp though is great compared to the pioneer. Each has its own set of limitations to offer.


 I am trying to decide between these two dsp's, if using a factory head and mainly android auto to listen to music would you say the deq would be a better option given it has a de-eq function? I only have a small underneath sub, components with crossovers built in up front and factory rear speakers which are disconnected at the moment.


----------



## rton20s

bilboaudio said:


> I am trying to decide between these two dsp's, if using a factory head and mainly android auto to listen to music would you say the deq would be a better option given it has a de-eq function? I only have a small underneath sub, components with crossovers built in up front and factory rear speakers which are disconnected at the moment.


I can not think of a single use case, including yours, where I would take the Pioneer over the Dayton.


----------



## nate0

bilboaudio said:


> I am trying to decide between these two dsp's, if using a factory head and mainly android auto to listen to music would you say the deq would be a better option given it has a de-eq function? I only have a small underneath sub, components with crossovers built in up front and factory rear speakers which are disconnected at the moment.


If you’re a pioneer fan absolutely. If you want more detailed control over your system buy a Dayton. Both kinda the same price. Both have mostly the same functions. The deq has a bunch of eq presets and feature tunings. The deq too though has that built in amp which I’m using to power two kicker 6.5s and two ct sounds mids. And honestly for under powering them they still get decently loud and sound good.


----------



## nate0

rton20s said:


> I can not think of a single use case, including yours, where I would take the Pioneer over the Dayton.


If I had a chance to go back and redo my choice. I would have bought a second Dayton


----------



## lucas569

any way to set the remote control to only adjust the sub amp volume?


----------



## F150Man

No it is master volume and presets.


----------



## lucas569

That’s too bad. This DSP looks amazing for the price. Might just shell out little more and get the Mini DSP 6x8 since I’m always fumbling with my sub bass.


----------



## F150Man

lucas569 said:


> That’s too bad. This DSP looks amazing for the price. Might just shell out little more and get the Mini DSP 6x8 since I’m always fumbling with my sub bass.


Did you see the word, "presets" ? You can set up 6 different tune presets in the phone app and toggle thru them with the remote. You could label one BASS UP and one normal and one BASS DOWN and still 3 more.


----------



## lucas569

i saw, i saw! But messing with my phone while driving isnt the best move. My taste in music varies widely so reaching for a volume knob for the sub bass is more appealing is all. i have an Audison VRX mono amp that has optional bass knob but its not easy to find. If i find one on ebay still might go for the Dayton but its coming down to install time soon so i need to decide soon...


----------



## nate0

lucas569 said:


> i saw, i saw! But messing with my phone while driving isnt the best move. My taste in music varies widely so reaching for a volume knob for the sub bass is more appealing is all. i have an Audison VRX mono amp that has optional bass knob but its not easy to find. If i find one on ebay still might go for the Dayton but its coming down to install time soon so i need to decide soon...


I use a genetic rca bass knob for the signal to the Amp. They're like 10 dollars on Amazon. You can get fancy ones for 75.00 and up if you want too.


----------



## F150Man

lucas569 said:


> i saw, i saw! But messing with my phone while driving isnt the best move. My taste in music varies widely so reaching for a volume knob for the sub bass is more appealing is all. i have an Audison VRX mono amp that has optional bass knob but its not easy to find. If i find one on ebay still might go for the Dayton but its coming down to install time soon so i need to decide soon...


No you still didn't get it. You set it all up on your phone or PC/laptop, then you change presets with the remote. No need to be on the phone while driving. 
I agree tho. A bass VOLUME knob, not a bass BOOST knob, connected to your sub amp, is the way to go. I have both the DSP remote and a bass volume knob.


----------



## lucas569

nice option!


----------



## lucas569

F150Man said:


> No you still didn't get it. You set it all up on your phone or PC/laptop, then you change presets with the remote. No need to be on the phone while driving.
> I agree tho. A bass VOLUME knob, not a bass BOOST knob, connected to your sub amp, is the way to go. I have both the DSP remote and a bass volume knob.


only reason i wasnt going that direction was i read the remote introduced noise... that issue of course could have been ironed out by now. Thanks for the tips regardless. you got me on team Dayton now! the app is super easy to use.


----------



## creed

Is it possibly to have the DSP-408 connected both Hi & Low input, the high-level input being the factory headunit (this is the radio, and cd player), and the low input is solely a high quality DAP connected to the DSP-408.

Would the DSP-408 knows how to switch between the input sources?


----------



## Theslaking

Yes it's possible but you would have to assign presets with preferred source.


----------



## creed

Thanks, that's great to know


----------



## Ali-323i

Theslaking said:


> Yes it's possible but you would have to assign presets with preferred source.


I don’t see how to select Hi or Low inputs in the software, just inputs 1-4...

Are you sure this is possible with the Dayton?


----------



## Theslaking

I just checked the app. I see what you mean. Maybe messing with the input mixer. Put the high level on 1&2 and low level on 3&4. Turn the mixer of for the respective input/presets.


----------



## Fish Chris 2

nate0 said:


> Choose defeat.





opekone said:


> It's literally right there, what a fool I am! Thanks!


😀 Lol Don't feel to bad. Took me a minute too.


----------



## minbari

lucas569 said:


> any way to set the remote control to only adjust the sub amp volume?


no, but you can put an RCA fader inline with the dayton and amp. what I did and makes a great sub bass level adjuster


----------



## minbari

F150Man said:


> Did you see the word, "presets" ? You can set up 6 different tune presets in the phone app and toggle thru them with the remote. You could label one BASS UP and one normal and one BASS DOWN and still 3 more.


this is not a great solution for adjusting bass onthe fly. I find that I make tiny adjustments from one artists to another and this would be set amounts. I wouldnt like it.

plus when you change presets it takes about 3-4 secs to do it.


----------



## minbari

Ali-323i said:


> I don’t see how to select Hi or Low inputs in the software, just inputs 1-4...
> 
> Are you sure this is possible with the Dayton?


RCA and high level inputs are the same. use one or the other NOT both on the same channel

you can have an RCA input on some channels and high level on others.


----------



## lingling1337

Figured I didn't want to start another thread about this little gem, I'm super impressed for the price. I have only used it in my home stereo but the quick tuning session I did using REW auto EQ has everything sounding much bettter. I mostly needed to tame my highs which has resulted in much better detail and imaging. 

If anyone's on the fence I'd highly recommend it for the price. PE has a 60-day return policy if you don't like it but if you don't need more than 8 RCA outs it seems like a no-brainer to me


----------



## GoldRiver

Looking to reduce my sub output from 40hz-80hz to even out freq response. Any tips on some filter settings and what Q to use? Its really flat from 40-80 and just want to bring that 40-80 range down about 10db to match my output from 20-40. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Theslaking

GoldRiver said:


> Looking to reduce my sub output from 40hz-80hz to even out freq response


Blasphemy


----------



## Theslaking

But really use a eq band at at 60 drag it down to -6 and set the q about 1.5. Start there and tweak as needed.


----------



## rockbrook

I'm sure this is possible but wouldn't mind if someone more knowledgable could help.

My headunit has 4 RCA's(Front/Rear), then a single mono connection for the sub. 
My plan is to run the front/rear rca's to the 4 inputs on the dsp for "High's and Mids". 

My question is this, for my sub amp, can I simply wire rca's from the dsp output to the sub amp? Then just use the dsp to tune the sub settings and completely bypass the headunit?


----------



## Theslaking

You only need one set of RCA's if your not using the fader. You normally wouldn't if your using time alignment. One of, if not both RCA's will be full range.

Then use the DSP to route what ever signal to whatever output you want.


----------



## SilentWrath

rockbrook said:


> I'm sure this is possible but wouldn't mind if someone more knowledgable could help.
> 
> My headunit has 4 RCA's(Front/Rear), then a single mono connection for the sub.
> My plan is to run the front/rear rca's to the 4 inputs on the dsp for "High's and Mids".
> 
> My question is this, for my sub amp, can I simply wire rca's from the dsp output to the sub amp? Then just use the dsp to tune the sub settings and completely bypass the headunit?


Yup!


----------



## Jsnichols2

rockbrook said:


> I'm sure this is possible but wouldn't mind if someone more knowledgable could help.
> 
> My headunit has 4 RCA's(Front/Rear), then a single mono connection for the sub.
> My plan is to run the front/rear rca's to the 4 inputs on the dsp for "High's and Mids".
> 
> My question is this, for my sub amp, can I simply wire rca's from the dsp output to the sub amp? Then just use the dsp to tune the sub settings and completely bypass the headunit?


Absolutely. Just use one (or two) of the DSP RCA outputs as your sub channel, then use the mixer for that channel(s) to bring in a L/R signal from front or rear.


----------



## rockbrook

Theslaking said:


> You only need one set of RCA's if your not using the fader. You normally wouldn't if your using time alignment. One of, if not both RCA's will be full range.
> 
> Then use the DSP to route what ever signal to whatever output you want.


Good point! I never thought about that, I've never used the fader function don't see myself using it now... Running one set of RCA's sounds much better to me. Thanks for that recommendation, adding a DSP is a bit new territory for me.


----------



## ckirocz28

GoldRiver said:


> Looking to reduce my sub output from 40hz-80hz to even out freq response. Any tips on some filter settings and what Q to use? Its really flat from 40-80 and just want to bring that 40-80 range down about 10db to match my output from 20-40. Thanks in advance!


That seems like it may be a low frequency output deficiency or a null or room resonance. You're unlikely to fix something like that with eq.


----------



## ckirocz28

GoldRiver said:


> Looking to reduce my sub output from 40hz-80hz to even out freq response. Any tips on some filter settings and what Q to use? Its really flat from 40-80 and just want to bring that 40-80 range down about 10db to match my output from 20-40. Thanks in advance!


On second thought, that's likely to just be a deficiency in output below 40 hz, a null or a resonance would be much more narrow. Is this in a house or car?


----------



## GoldRiver

ckirocz28 said:


> On second thought, that's likely to just be a deficiency in output below 40 hz, a null or a resonance would be much more narrow. Is this in a house or car?


Car. Its my box design I think. I have a new sub amp coming today so I put everything on hold.


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## GoldRiver

Got the new amp in. How do you tune your subs? Freq generator and do levels at 25hz, 30hz, etc? Freq sweep?

And sorry to flood with questions. I have one more! My dayton mutes the signal too early. If Im listening to talk radio I need the vol up or it mutes. Full range music and it does fine. When tuning, I need to bump the vol to get it to unmute. My sub doesnt unmute until 120db if Im doing test tones (rew, umik shows 120db). 

I may have to buy a line level converter. Im using full range high level inputs from stock head unit.


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## GoldRiver

I was able to compensate for some of my muting issues by lowering the gain on my front stage amp. On talk radio and other lower output music the dayton was muted and when I turned the HU up enough to unmute it was too loud for normal listening. Factory HU high level full freq inputs. 

I lowered my amp gain a bit, obviously this fixed the problem but my gain is now set based on the dayton's muting and not solely on my amp as before so I lost a bit of clean db at higher volume. 

I wish there was a way to adjust the muting characteristics. I cant find much info on this, doesnt seem to be a common problem.


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## Theslaking

What is muting? I've never had one mute.


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## GoldRiver

Theslaking said:


> What is muting? I've never had one mute.


Maybe its my f150 head unit then? When the source signal level drops I get no output from the dayton.


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## Theslaking

Maybe it's not giving enough of an output signal to the dsp?


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## Gill

Does the DSP work with generic USB dongle to connect a mobile for app interface connection?


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## JaySea20

GoldRiver said:


> Maybe its my f150 head unit then? When the source signal level drops I get no output from the dayton.


So, your using the signal sense and it is not turning on till its really loud? Could you run a acc wire to the unit and use the remote in for turn on?


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## GoldRiver

JaySea20 said:


> So, your using the signal sense and it is not turning on till its really loud? Could you run a acc wire to the unit and use the remote in for turn on?


I have remote turn on. It must be something with my head unit. It comes on fine, but something is auto muting when output drops.


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## JaySea20

GoldRiver said:


> I have remote turn on. It must be something with my head unit. It comes on fine, but something is auto muting when output drops.


I used the Dayton DSP for a while in my truck and it never dropped out like that. Do you have a multimeter? If so, measure the voltage at the RCAs. There will be a low voltage if there is output. then you will be able to tell which device is turning off.


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## WinWiz

Are you 200% sure the dayton's 3 way turn on selector switch is set at remote?


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## Fish Chris 2

WinWiz said:


> Are you 200% sure the dayton's 3 way turn on selector switch is set at remote?


I really don't believe this is "user error". Even the techs at Dayton know about this problem, and so far as I know, don't have a fix for it.


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## hankhowdy1

I play CD quality and hi res tracks from my iPhone from Amazon music HD. This is out on the lightning port to a Pioneer DMH-2660nex. 

I have a 408 that I haven’t installed yet because my build changed directions and went 3 way passive, but that might change some day. I might sell the unit if I get a unsavory answer to my question. 

My question is, will I still get the same CD/ hi res quality when using the 408? I have read that it has a lower bit rate? Compared to other DSPs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WinWiz

The Dayton 408 dsp samplingrate is.24-bit/48 kHz. So better that cd quality 16bit/44kHz.
The top dsps support 32bit/384kHz. But implementation is more important than samplingrate, so you shouldn't judge DSP's only on samplingrates.
Dayton 408 is analog in and out. So for digital sources audio get converted from digital to analog before entering the dsp. The dayton then converts from analog to digital and back to analog. Compared to a dsp with digital input this extra conversions inevitable cause some loss of sq. But modern dacs are very good at converting so it's not a big deal.
I would say the dayton's sq compares quite well with cd quality. But then again cd quality also variates from on implementation to another...


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## steelwindmachine

anyone running a HU with 2v pre-amp outs into the Dayton DSP have any noise issues?


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## Gill

That won't be the only reason for noise in transmission. 2v is fine, should be good.


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## steelwindmachine

well, I no longer need to worry about a 2v pre-amp out. I went with a DMX906S that has 5V pre-amp outs  I presume I can just keep my gains lower


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## Gill

steelwindmachine said:


> well, I no longer need to worry about a 2v pre-amp out. I went with a DMX906S that has 5V pre-amp outs  I presume I can just keep my gains lower


DSP408 doesn't like high voltage inputs, so watch you volume level at HU.


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## rockbrook

I finally got around to installing mine last weekend. Hot damn I am impressed. Still need to tune a bit more but my god am I blown away at the difference in sound quality. 
Had some engine noise issues that weren't there before installing the 408. Ground loop isolator fixed that right up.


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## Gill

rockbrook said:


> I finally got around to installing mine last weekend. Hot damn I am impressed. Still need to tune a bit more but my god am I blown away at the difference in sound quality.
> Had some engine noise issues that weren't there before installing the 408. Ground loop isolator fixed that right up.


Did you check the low frequency suppression post isolator installation?


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## jtrosky

Yeah, I've always heard that ground loop isolators could impact sound quality... Just what I've heard though.


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## steelwindmachine

instead of a ground loop isolator, anyone else here powering theirs via the AC adapter via a small inverter?


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## Gill

steelwindmachine said:


> instead of a ground loop isolator, anyone else here powering theirs via the AC adapter via a small inverter?


Fellow member, I think Chris, did it. It helped to eliminate the loop noise.


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## rockbrook

Gill said:


> Did you check the low frequency suppression post isolator installation?


I did not, I have no idea how to do that. Is this something that can be done easily? I'm a noob when it comes to DSP's



jtrosky said:


> Yeah, I've always heard that ground loop isolators could impact sound quality... Just what I've heard though.


I have heard that too, When I first installed the ground loop isolator, I thought I felt that the subwoofer wasn't hitting as hard but eventually ruled that issue out. I'll do some more tests but it sounds fine right now.(By the way, this is TJ aka 2007Imp850 from the ImpalaForums LOL)


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## jtrosky

rockbrook said:


> (By the way, this is TJ aka 2007Imp850 from the ImpalaForums LOL)


Ha! Small world, eh?  I still owe you some map updates!!! I didn't forget about you - just been extremely busy lately with work. I'll get them out to you this weekend though - I promise!

Did you connect the Dayton to your Rosen unit?


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## rockbrook

jtrosky said:


> Ha! Small world, eh?  I still owe you some map updates!!! I didn't forget about you - just been extremely busy lately with work. I'll get them out to you this weekend though - I promise!
> 
> Did you connect the Dayton to your Rosen unit?


Small world for sure! Sounds good on the maps, I'll be on the lookout!

And yep, I actually connected the Dayton to the Advent OG-M1, went with the Dayton to start out cheap and get familiar with DSP's. The sound quality is so much better now.


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## Jsnichols2

steelwindmachine said:


> instead of a ground loop isolator, anyone else here powering theirs via the AC adapter via a small inverter?


I used a MiniDSP 12v isolator. It takes a 10-18v input and turns it into a clean 12v isolated power supply for your DSP. And it also provides a turn-on circuit for your amps that has a 3-second delay (no more speaker pops).

I found that it helped quite a bit with noise issues that I was having. Highly recommended.






miniDC Isolator


miniDC Isolator




www.minidsp.com


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## steelwindmachine

@Jsnichols2 - thanks! ordered one.


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## Jsnichols2

steelwindmachine said:


> @Jsnichols2 - thanks! ordered one.


Glad I could help! I hope that it works as well for you as it did for me!


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## Ali-323i

Jsnichols2 said:


> I used a MiniDSP 12v isolator. It takes a 10-18v input and turns it into a clean 12v isolated power supply for your DSP. And it also provides a turn-on circuit for your amps that has a 3-second delay (no more speaker pops).
> 
> I found that it helped quite a bit with noise issues that I was having. Highly recommended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> miniDC Isolator
> 
> 
> miniDC Isolator
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.minidsp.com


This looks awesome, wish I had seen it before but better late than never!!

Did it eliminate 100% of the noise? 

Thanks for sharing!!


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## Jsnichols2

No problem! I found that it got rid of pretty much all my ground noise but YMMV. The biggest perk for me was the 3-second amp delay turn on. Solved the tweeter pop I was getting when the system powers up.


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## steelwindmachine

@Jsnichols2
I'm a bit confused as to which components should be connected in what order to the Remote Inputs/Outputs.

*The HU *REM OUT connects to?

*The miniDSP Isolator:*
REM IN comes from HU?
delayed REM OUT connects to 5-ch Amp REM IN?
12vdc Output connects to Dayton DSP 12vdc Input?

*The Dayton DSP:*
REM IN comes from? - OR should the Remote switch be set to RCA?
REM OUT connects to?

*5-channel Speaker Amp for front stage+sub*
REM IN connects to the miniDSP Isolator's delayed REM OUT?


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## rockbrook

Maybe this will help some. I ordered one of the isolator's too, but didn't think about the wiring until you mentioned it and I was confused a bit as well until I found this.


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## steelwindmachine

@rockbrook - yes, I have that schematic. It still doesn't clarify how the Dayton DSP's Remote In/Out should be used or whether I should set it to RCA turn-on sensing.

I am fairly certain we want the amp Remote in to receive the delayed miniDSP Isolator's REMout signal. This is to turn the amp on after the DSP has been on for 3 seconds and turn the amp off 3 seconds before the DSP turns off.


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## rockbrook

@steelwindmachine ahh I understand your question now. Sorry!

Now that you put it that way, it is a bit confusing to me still so I hope Jnichols2 will chime in lol. 

I think I have an idea of how it should go, but I am not 100%


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## Jsnichols2

rockbrook said:


> @steelwindmachine ahh I understand your question now. Sorry!
> 
> Now that you put it that way, it is a bit confusing to me still so I hope Jnichols2 will chime in lol.
> 
> I think I have an idea of how it should go, but I am not 100%


Should be:

Remote IN: remote out from HU (or other switched 12v source)

Remote OUT: to remote in on amplifier(s)

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk


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## steelwindmachine

@Jsnichols2 so, what if anything do I do with the Remote In/Out on the DSP-408?


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## Jsnichols2

You'll have to forgive me, I've been on vacation but haven't had much time to stop and think about what I've been telling you LOL.

IIRC I think I DID run my HU remote out to the remote in of the DSP, and then remote out of DSP into remote in of the DC isolator. Then remote out from isolator to amps. Sorry, it's been a while since I've done all that and I really had to think about it 

In the end, as long as all the components are powering up and your amp(s) are seeing the delayed turn on then you should be pretty good to go.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk


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## Gill

I got to troubleshoot the ground loops, its working fine now! Input and output voltage is big handicap.


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## nate0

steelwindmachine said:


> instead of a ground loop isolator, anyone else here powering theirs via the AC adapter via a small inverter?


I am using a DC->AC power strip from my cigarette lighter to power mine. I did this in both my Sonata and my SUV...


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## WinWiz

steelwindmachine said:


> @rockbrook
> I am fairly certain we want the amp Remote in to receive the delayed miniDSP Isolator's REMout signal. This is to turn the amp on after the DSP has been on for 3 seconds and turn the amp off 3 seconds before the DSP turns off.


Exactly. The amp should be the last device in the audio chain to turn on. When powering off the amp should be the first device to shut down.


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## nate0

WinWiz said:


> Exactly. The amp should be the last device in the audio chain to turn on. When powering off the amp should be the first device to shut down.


Spoken like a live sound engineer.


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## Gill

DSP has NE5532 operational amplifiers. 5531 is a capable device, would it be worth swapping it with a modern IC like opa1656 or 1642, considering the challenging environment car imposes?


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## reid1boys

minbari said:


> Those 4 inputs are the same weather you use RCA or hi level. Its all analog.
> 
> Map input 3 and 4 to output 7 and 8
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


im only 4 years behind on this thread, but why would you even need to use inputs 3 and 4 in this example? What advantage would you gain using front left and right and rear left and right inputs vs just the left and right inputs?


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## reid1boys

rcg703 said:


> Did you get the USB bluetooth dongle? You'll need that for streaming.


i know, i know.. old thread.. what benefit would you have by streaming directly to the dsp vs bluetooth into your HU? I dont care about using the app on the phone. I make my adjustments on the PC and save them. I can switch using the wired connection.


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## Theslaking

The benefit would be dependent on the head units Bluetooth codec and dac compared to Dayton's. Either way the DSP in converting it to perform adjustments.


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## reid1boys

lucas569 said:


> any way to set the remote control to only adjust the sub amp volume?


couldnt you just have different saved settings.. start off with the one you normallyuse, then make another setting that bosts up the base and simply svae it as setting number 2, then do the same again boosting the sub even more and saving it as setting 3. Then at low volumes just load up setting 2 or 3 from that remote? yes yes.. I know im a few years late, but im just reading and learning more.


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## reid1boys

Theslaking said:


> The benefit would be dependent on the head units Bluetooth codec and dac compared to Dayton's. Either way the DSP in converting it to perform adjustments.


so you are saying the DAC could actually be so superior in the Dayton that it could cause a noticeable difference in the sound quality? IM actually connecting my phone directly to the head unit using the USB connection which is needed to use waze anyways, so I will likely never be using blue tooth into the head unit anyways. Im just trying to learn a little more here. Thanks


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## reid1boys

minbari said:


> this is not a great solution for adjusting bass onthe fly. I find that I make tiny adjustments from one artists to another and this would be set amounts. I wouldnt like it.
> 
> plus when you change presets it takes about 3-4 secs to do it.


I would think it is a pretty good solution, minus the 3-4 second delay when you switch the presets. 
But I would think it is pretty simple to just add a few db in whatever increments you chose from one preset to the next. Then select which one you want.


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## nate0

reid1boys said:


> so you are saying the DAC could actually be so superior in the Dayton that it could cause a noticeable difference in the sound quality? IM actually connecting my phone directly to the head unit using the USB connection which is needed to use waze anyways, so I will likely never be using blue tooth into the head unit anyways. Im just trying to learn a little more here. Thanks


The bluetooth codec used on the Dayton is APTx. If you never plan to use blue tooth then don't worry about it. I have used both on my Dayton. Blue Tooth and Headphone jack but I use LG Phones with the Quad DAC engineered in them (V30, G8x etc). The Sound Quality over the headphone jack with the quad dac enabled is far superior to the Bluetooth stream for my LG but that may not be the case on all devices sending signal to that Dayton.


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## shawndoggy

I've been following this thread for over three years and bought a DSP-408 2.5 years ago. I sold the car that it was meant for, and have had it on my shelf gathering dust. Picked up a new-to-me 2019 F250 last month, and stereo improvements were sorely needed. I deployed the DSP to a JL RD400/4 feeding HAT Clarus 6.5 mids, a JL XD400/4 feeding HAT Clarus tweets and CDT 6.5s (full range) in the rear doors. I've got a Dayton Reference HO 12 in a sealed downfiring box under the rear seat running off of a JL XD 600/1. 

Holy friggin smokes. I've been hacking at car audio for 30 years (many budget systems). This is my first crack at an active setup. WOW. I'm blown away with how good it sounds with basic rudimentary tuning by ear. I've never run this much power (200W per mid, 75w per tweet) to a front stage. Gains are set to min on both amps, and it sounds so spacious and detailed. I bought the tuning mic when I bought the DSP, so eventually I'll get around to tuning with REW.

Just wanted to stop in and say thanks to all of the contributors to this thread over the years. I've read all the posts (even went so far as to install an inverter so I could easily switch power sources if I got noise ;-). System is dead silent, thankfully (the low gains help, I'm sure).


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## Brak1022

Ok so I am not new to installing basic car audio but I may be making things harder than they need to be while integrating DSP into factory stereo.
Car-2014 Ford Fusion Sync 2 non Sony
Completed Forscan change for low level output
DSP 408
PPI 900.4 for fronts and sub
Fronts - Morel Maximo 6
Sub- SSA Dcon 12

So I have an issue with no sound from DSP. I am tapping off the back of the unit to front speakers which I did before with LOC and no issue with sound. I am running rear speakers off factory unit still. I am tying into factory wiring for short run into doors. What’s weird is when I have inputs into DSP there is no sound from rear speakers. If I remove even 1 RCA from input on DSP the rear speakers come back on. Either way no sound from fronts or sub. I currently have the auto on for RCA which powers the unit. I temporarily ran a constant for remote to see if anything changed. I did get an audible thump in the system so it seems like signal is there. Mixer is set so ch1 in->ch1 out ch2 in -> ch2 out. Sub is linked on ch1/2 in -> 7/8 out. Anyone have any idea what could cause this? I’ll get in there today or tomorrow to double check wiring behind factory unit.[/QUOTE]


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## shawndoggy

Brak1022 said:


> Anyone have any idea what could cause this? I’ll get in there today or tomorrow to double check wiring behind factory unit.


[/QUOTE]

My bet is it's a ford issue, not a DSP issue. Have you tried using the high level inputs instead of RCA? Just set forscan to no EQ, but not the pre-amp outputs? That's how I have might set up (sync 3, non-sony) using a for11ck T-harness. works great.


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## Brak1022

I haven’t yet. That was going to be my fallback plan. I’ll probably order that harness and put it in this weekend and call it good. I wanted to try a few more things before buying anything else. Plus would have liked having low level signal vs high but may just have to take what I can get.


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## shawndoggy

Brak1022 said:


> I haven’t yet. That was going to be my fallback plan. I’ll probably order that harness and put it in this weekend and call it good. I wanted to try a few more things before buying anything else. Plus would have liked having low level signal vs high but may just have to take what I can get.


IIRC, the DSP 408 doesn't like powerful low level signals. My experience with high level inputs from a ford sync system is that it sounds really good.


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## Brak1022

Harness on order. Hopefully gets here by the weekend. Will update with results. Thanks for the responses.


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## nate0

shawndoggy said:


> IIRC, the DSP 408 doesn't like powerful low level signals. My experience with high level inputs from a ford sync system is that it sounds really good.


I scoped my Dayton and have found it to put out 2.5-2.8v from the outs before the wave reaches clipping on 1khz and 30-40hz. Which for me is perfectly fine. The only noise I ever get through mine are dependent on the source I am sending from over RCA and the RCA/low level cables themselves. I have used only my LG Android device though. What do you mean exactly by "does not like powerful low-level signals"?


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## Theslaking

4v+ rca signals from the head unit/source.


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## TheTodd

I’ve been running my DSP-408 with 2 different Kenwood Excelon units with 5v pre-outs for the better part of 3+ years with no issues.


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## Brak1022

Harness didn’t arrive today like I hoped. Still trying to figure out why it’s doing what it’s doing. I switched to female RCA ends off the back of the factory unit to new cable then into the DSP. I am running new speaker wire from the amp in the trunk back up to where I cut behind the unit for output to the doors through factory wire. Like I said before there is a light pop to whatever side I unplug so a signal is there somewhere. As soon as I plug into the DSP the sound from rear(running off stock unit) goes out and no output from anything. I did notice I have to unplug both RCAs to get sound back so before may have been bad connection from one. I posted on a fusion forum the same time as this one and still no word over there. Strange


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## Brak1022

Harness installed. I have music but need to do some work in the DSP. Bass is pretty light from the subwoofer. Almost had the gains all the way up to get decent output. Door speakers get loud but lack punch. Still learning how to use the Dayton. Will play with it more this week after work.


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## shawndoggy

Weird question…

I have a 2016 mazda miata with Bose. The HU output goes to a Bose amp and then to the speakers. I am adding aftermarket components to the front doors. The “rear” speakers are actually in the headrests and are super annoying / distracting. However, the geniuses at mazda decided sending phone calls over BT to the headrest speakers was a good idea. So I need to maintain output to those speakers. 

On to my weird q: would it be possible for me to tie the low level processed outputs from a dsp 408 back into my Bose amp for the rear speakers using an rca pigtail? Has anyone done this successfully? I’m thinking I’d run channels 1-4 to a 4ch amp to power the components in the doors/pillars actively, and then (using rca pigtails) run 5-6 back to the Bose amp for the headrest speakers and 7-8 back to the Bose amp for the factory sub. 

Not ideal but it’s a miata and I’m limited on room and want to add as little weight as possible.


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