# Can eq cause clipping or damage



## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

I've just set the gain on both my dsp (audison bit 10) and my amp (brutus bxi 20100) with an oscilloscope using a sine sweep at my head unit's (2016 mustang sync 3) maximum undistorted level so that the peaks of the sine waves are just barely clipping. My question is concerning Eq. The for mentioned amp is driving my subwoofer and I like a good amount of bass. 

If I turn up the db levels for the frequencies being played by the sub (20hz to about 75-80hz) could that cause clipping in the signal?? 

What made me think of this is that there is a bass eq knob on the amp and everywhere I read people say to keep that knob low because it will cause distortion and clipping. But since its just an eq knob that boosts db of certain frequencies does that mean that turning up bass on my bit ten could do the same thing?? 

Also how do I know how much I can turn up the bass before it becomes too much for my sub to handle? I drive an hour to and from work every day and after listening to music the whole drive home my sub is pretty hot, not to hot that it burns my hand but pretty hot. My amp is usually only lukewarm. 

Sorry if these questions are newbish this if my first major build,


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Short answer.. It can

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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Longer answer is you shouldn't be boosting large frequency ranges. If you need more sub turn you sub level up or the rest of your speakers down.
Ideally you should be cutting around cabin gain, typically between 40 and 60 hz. Once the freq range of the sub is balanced with eq them you can revisit the sub gain/level if needed.
If your amp is set for max output and you boost in the eq it's not possible you are clipping , it is guaranteed you are.


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Just 3db of increase requires double the power. So yes, even small bumps in EQ could potentially cause clipping. As mentioned, you shouldn't be boosting such a wide range of frequencies with EQ.


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## sqnut (Dec 24, 2009)

Use your eq to cut the midrange 800-4khz and you'll have more bass than you need. As mentioned don't boost 2 octaves of the low end.


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## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

Update: The instructions that come with the audison bit ten say to set the headunit eq controls to flat when setting the gain on your amps. I know now that if I set the gain at max undistorted volume right to the threshold of clipping and I boost any of the eq afterwards, the signal will definitely be clipping. I confirmed this by testing with an oscilloscope. 

To me my sub only sounds loud enough for me when the bass is boosted (which is bad for it, makes it overheat) So I'm gonna go ahead and get one more to go with it. My amp is 1 ohm mono stable so I knew I always had the option to add one more identical sub. (currently running at 2 ohm load 1100 rms) I think i'll have a lot more headroom with two subs and not have to boost the signal.

I also read somewhere that you should set the gains on the eq you are planning to run. So if youre gonna boost the bass you should set the eq and then see where the gain causes clipping. Won't that be the same level of output?

As I understand it, if you are pushing a 60hz sine way test tone and you increase the gain, it will increase the amplitude of the wave. If I boost 60hz on my eq won't it do the same exact thing? The only difference is that the gain controls all of the signals coming in. 
I'm gonna play around with it and see. Luckily my library has oscilloscopes that you can check out for free lol



Memphis mojo 512d4 
Brutus 20100D


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

floydbanks28 said:


> Update: The instructions that come with the audison bit ten say to set the headunit eq controls to flat when setting the gain on your amps. I know now that if I set the gain at max undistorted volume right to the threshold of clipping and I boost any of the eq afterwards, the signal will definitely be clipping. I confirmed this by testing with an oscilloscope.
> 
> To me my sub only sounds loud enough for me when the bass is boosted (which is bad for it, makes it overheat) So I'm gonna go ahead and get one more to go with it. My amp is 1 ohm mono stable so I knew I always had the option to add one more identical sub. (currently running at 2 ohm load 1100 rms) I think i'll have a lot more headroom with two subs and not have to boost the signal.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you know what you're doing, but I really think you're making it more difficult than necessary. I never use an o-scope for gains, it's not worth the trouble. Setting gains is easy enough to do by ear/common sense. Using an o-scope will get you the max unclipped gain, but only at that frequency and with that level of recording, any difference in frequency or recording level and the gain is no longer optimal. I don't see the point of going through the trouble to optimize the gain for a particular frequency and recording level. By looking at cone movement and listening, I think it's pretty easy to set gains by ear. You don't need to have magic ears, when you push them too hard you'll know. 

Now that my o-scope rant is over, adding a second woofer will help, it should get you about a 6db gain in potential output. If you need more than that you'll need more power. 

Is the bass boost on the amp, or the DSP? What frequencies does it cover? Bass boost can be fine, but there are usually better ways of optimizing the frequency response. Gains, crossovers, and EQ can do a lot for you.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Are you looking for more bass in relation to the rest of your system or are you wanting your system louder? It sounds like you want it louder.
These 2 have very different approaches.


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## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

My Dsp (audison bit 10) has a full 31 band equalizer. Also there is a bass boost knob on my amp that is centered at 45hz. My head unit (stock 2016 mustang) also has a 3 band equalizer that is nice for cutting the bass when I don't want it. 

But I want loud, I wanna be able to have my mids and tweets up pretty loud and still feel the bass, I thought one mojo 512d4 getting fed 1100rms was gonna be enough, 

I was playing around with the settings last night, playing bass heavy music and toggling the knobs to see what corresponded with what. Most of the bass was 40-60hz, the knobs outside of this range barley had an effect. 

I just bought another sub, and a new box (I know I can built my own, I don't have time tools, and I don't care about spending $80 honestly) So I'm excited to get that in the mail next week. In the mean time, gotta get these door panels opened up and see the best way to get these doors deadened and sealed for my morel tempo 602's! Build log on its way, already have tons of pictures.


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## drop1 (Jul 26, 2015)

Don't forget crossover settings and tune also define the sound characteristics of your bass. I have 2 audiofrog gb 10"s and they can sound smooth as butter or punch you dead in the chest. Tune plays a huge role in this. 
Was your original box ported or sealed. If sealed going ported on that power would have given you a big boost down low.


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## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

drop1 said:


> Don't forget crossover settings and tune also define the sound characteristics of your bass. I have 2 audiofrog gb 10"s and they can sound smooth as butter or punch you dead in the chest. Tune plays a huge role in this.
> Was your original box ported or sealed. If sealed going ported on that power would have given you a big boost down low.


Yes I've noticed that blending the different bass notes can make a huge difference. What are you using to tune? Any way I can see examples of what you are talking about as far as whats boosted and cut where in the butter vs punch scenario you are describing? 

As far as the box goes, I have pretty limited trunk space and the recommended volume for a ported box for my particular subwoofers is a lot more than the sealed. If I ever have a truck or something with a big trunk I'm definitely going ported next time.


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## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

UPDATE: Got the additional sub and box and wired them up at 1ohm. My two mojos are rated at 1000 rms each and my brutus amp says it pushed 2000 rms at a 1 ohm load. 

Every time I try to turn up the volume my amp goes into protect mode. If I turn off the car and turn it back on its fine. My power and ground both are good (I tested them) so I'm thinking my amp is just a POS and overheats when you push it. 

I'm thinking about picking up another amp, was looking at the Rockville Rxd m5 says its rated about what I need, heard its cheap, but is better than my hifonics lol

anybody run into problems with amps going into protect mode when the bass hits hard?


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

I see 2 issues. The amp is one, they are grossly overrated. The second issue is buying cheap prefab boxes. You could have easily got loud enough with a single sub


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## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

I'm gonna re sand my ground today and adjust the gains and everything again, if it still messes up I'm gonna just buy a new amp


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## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

Update: Re sanded ground dbl checked impedence on all voice coils. All okay combined load of speakers is 1.1 ohms everything should be working. At this point i'm done with this brutus, 

I ordered two kicker cx1200's so I'm gonna be pushing the two mojos on their own amp at 1200 watts 2 ohm impedence. I'm gonna pull my hair out if these amps go into protect mode whenever I turn up the volume too. wish me luck


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> I see 2 issues. The amp is one, they are grossly overrated...


How do they rate them?


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## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

They just say RMS and max


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## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

Also I noticed that one of my subs makes scratchy noises when I push on it in certain places, but I took it out and both coils still measure to 4ohms. Could it be like partially burnt out?


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## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

It seems one of my subwoofers is blown ($280 wasted) partially. My amp is underpowered for these speakers so the only way to get them to hit is turning up the gain and bass boost which caused the one to cook when I had it by itself. It seems my amp goes into protect mode because once I put a good amount of power through the burnt coil it drops the impedance which causes overload.

Pretty irritating since when I drove home from work it was randomly working perfectly, Maybe that night was the last straw, idk still more to figure out I guess, once I get my new amps ill know forsure.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

floydbanks28 said:


> They just say RMS and max


But the. Posted quote wasthat they are over rated?

Technically?
Or qualitatively people say that they are good but they are not.

How are the over rated, or how are they rated?
What is the rating system?


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

Holmz said:


> How do they rate them?


Any amp that says cea compliant is as it says... But if it does not say cea compliant question its performance. 

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

CEA is a joke these days. It's only a 4ohm test on a power supply. A lot will do rated at 4ohm but not lower. 
You rarely see that sticker on good amps.


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

floydbanks28 said:


> Update: Re sanded ground dbl checked impedence on all voice coils. All okay combined load of speakers is 1.1 ohms everything should be working. At this point i'm done with this brutus,
> 
> I ordered two kicker cx1200's so I'm gonna be pushing the two mojos on their own amp at 1200 watts 2 ohm impedence. I'm gonna pull my hair out if these amps go into protect mode whenever I turn up the volume too. wish me luck


A Rockford T1500 was recommended to me to run 2 BoneCrushers Rated 800rms each... That's what I would've recommended you if I had seen this earlier. This amp is Bladdy mean as hell. 

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Holmz said:


> But the. Posted quote wasthat they are over rated?
> 
> Technically?
> Or qualitatively people say that they are good but they are not.
> ...


What do you mean how are they rated? They put a number on them that will sell for the price. Or rate dynamic. Or just lie like crazy. 
There is no law about lying


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> CEA is a joke these days. It's only a 4ohm test on a power supply. A lot will do rated at 4ohm but not lower.
> You rarely see that sticker on good amps.


U hmmmm no... There are also 2ohm an 1ohm cea compliant tests..yoy want proof? I'v got a birth certificate showing 2ohm an 1 ohm tests.... Rated an then dynamic. 

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

welly.anthony.cat said:


> U hmmmm no... There are also 2ohm an 1ohm cea compliant tests..yoy want proof? I'v got a birth certificate showing 2ohm an 1 ohm tests.... Rated an then dynamic.
> 
> Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk


Nope. Birth sheets are one thing. But to get a CEA sticker.. here 

CEA-2006 Compliant Amplifiers | Learning Center | Sonic Electronix


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> Nope. Birth sheets are one thing. But to get a CEA sticker.. here
> 
> CEA-2006 Compliant Amplifiers | Learning Center | Sonic Electronix


I prefer cea compliant cause I like to be confident with what I'm buying an know what I'm getting I don't do gamble when it comes to spending big given I earn the AUD. 

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

So as long as it has a sticker it don't matter it won't do rated wired under 4ohm? 
Try to find that sticker on any power house Korean, German, US, or Italian made amps. 
You only see it on china amps.


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> So as long as it has a sticker it don't matter it won't do rated wired under 4ohm?
> Try to find that sticker on any power house Korean, German, US, or Italian made amps.
> You only see it on china amps.


You talking garbage now buddy.. 

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Talking truth. There was a time it meant something. Then cheap amps found a way to use it for sales.


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> Talking truth. There was a time it meant something. Then cheap amps found a way to use it for sales.


I know nothing about China.. But I know alpine (using them for 2 decades) an just started in Rockford.... These are not your China brands so take that back mate. 

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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> Talking truth. There was a time it meant something. Then cheap amps found a way to use it for sales.


You cannot simply just call a cheap brand a cheap brand if you haven't tried it yourself... All brands at some point in time start off cheap for advertising reasons that cheap is just a personal opinion until it becomes official.

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Alpine and Rockford are made in china.


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> Alpine and Rockford are made in china.


Yet they remain a solid brand eh.. Oh I thought I might add to this that Germany has been working with China for years now to improve workmanship an quality.... But you wouldn't happen to know anything about that would you? 

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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

Just because it is made in china Dnt mean it's by China standard. I understand that for many years that has been the case with many different kinds of brands not just amplifiers but that is changing if not yet changed. Individually Im not a fan of things made in china. I do my research b4 purchasing an expensive item sometimes I ask question if still unsure. There are certain I won't buy from China some items from there are exceptable.

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Wow you get defensive. I by no means say everything made in china is bad. 
BUT that's where you see that sticker. Like Maxsonics brands. Brands that are known for being junk but have one line that can pass at 4ohm. It's a sales tactic.


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> Wow you get defensive. I by no means say everything made in china is bad.
> BUT that's where you see that sticker. Like Maxsonics brands. Brands that are known for being junk but have one line that can pass at 4ohm. It's a sales tactic.


No at all defensive mate I'm just merely giving opinion from personal experience.. You are correct though. I have distinguished junk from the real deal I'm very aware there arent many good promising brands out there I love to keep an open mind an not to be too 1sided, I had a few guys criticise a new brand sub I'm running as I said it out did a type R sub simply because I didn't come with all its parameters an it was very cheap, an I'v been pushing this new brand hard the past few days an their taking full 1500rms (cea rated) 1900(actual rating) not burning not over heating... 

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

You will figure it all out one day. Btw, the 1900 from the "power cube" is a dynamic rating. 
Just a FYI.


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> You will figure it all out one day. Btw, the 1900 from the "power cube" is a dynamic rating.
> Just a FYI.


Yeah @ 1ohm

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

And 60% efficiency. Enjoy that as well as the "bass boost" remote and no adjustable SS filter, and no strapping capability, and it's size.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Sorry. I hate Rockford. I was a huge supporter in the 90s. My dad had a team deal with them. Then mid 2000s they sold out. And still try to charge premium.


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> Sorry. I hate Rockford. I was a huge supporter in the 90s. My dad had a team deal with them. Then mid 2000s they sold out. And still try to charge premium.


With rockford their speakers arnt that great but their amps are quite capable... I been using alpine for years... MRP MRX PDX they rock mono or speaker amp their speakers do well aswell, I wish the subs where a lil better though their good enough... Rockford I'v just entered the market for them. The T range is Bladdy awesome especially that their underrated, when I was recommended the T1500 I took a gamble an bought it, I wanted a 1 ohm setup an alpine lacks with 1ohm amps. 

So in all.... Any given brand may not be awesome across all their ranges... Alpine makes great speakers an amplifiers, Rockford makes awesome amps, I will be giving thier speakers a go in the future. Currently I'm running BONECRUSHER subs... I am impressed by their stamina compared to other 12" subs across all brands at its price. (150AUD) But will be looking to improve. 

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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Yeah you don't have as many options down there and it's more expensive. Mostly big box mainstream because they can afford to stock it up.


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> Yeah you don't have as many options down there and it's more expensive. Mostly big box mainstream because they can afford to stock it up.


It's also because of where I am located an what I have access to

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## GEM592 (Jun 19, 2015)

welly.anthony.cat said:


> It's also because of where I am located an what I have access to
> 
> Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk


Wow I was worried that somebody would get offended there. Or get offended that the other guy got offended, and take over some other thread being offended about the fact that somebody else got offended. Or, worst of all, wouldn't be able to detect a joke. That is the worst. But I know all you all down there are just easy going and real, I'm glad we got nowhere cleanly.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

GEM592 said:


> Wow I was worried that somebody would get offended there. Or get offended that the other guy got offended, and take over some other thread being offended about the fact that somebody else got offended. Or, worst of all, wouldn't be able to detect a joke. That is the worst. But I know all you all down there are just easy going and real, I'm glad we got nowhere cleanly.


At least one more person knows what CEA is now. One day it might matter to him. That's more constructive then this babble you posted


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## welly.anthony.cat (Aug 6, 2017)

DC/Hertz said:


> At least one more person knows what CEA is now. One day it might matter to him. That's more constructive then this babble you posted


Lmfao. Hilarious. 

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## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

welly.anthony.cat said:


> Any amp that says cea compliant is as it says... But if it does not say cea compliant question its performance.
> 
> Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk


Yeah I've learned the hard way that the ratings on the box could be complete ********, learned that the only way to know is to bench test them (or rather watch the bench test on youtube) but I've seen amps that are like oh these are 1200 cea compliant which is the rating to compare to jbl and good brands but these are 2400 rms which is good to compare to the cheap brands lol like it could get any more confusing. 

Rockville RXD-M5 Competition 8000 Watt/4000w RMS Mono 1 Ohm Amplifier Car Amp | Audio Savings

example of what I'm talking about.


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## floydbanks28 (Jun 21, 2017)

Build Update:
swapped out the brutus pushing 2000 rms at 1ohm for
2 kicker cx1200.1's pushing 1200 rms each (both on their own sub at 2ohms)

The kickers have a protect light that flashes whenever the bass hits hard, indicating voltage drop. I can verify this by watching the voltage guage on my dash. The alternator doesn't have enough juice to keep it at 14.4 so it bounces around between 12.5 and 14.4 alot depending on the song and volume. 

I think that the brutus just couldnt handle the voltage drop or had damaged components because it would often go into protect mode whenever i turned the volume up. And would be fine once i restarted the car.

Overall pretty happy with the kickers, i bought them refurbished for cheap and together they take up just about the same amount of space as the brutus, and look better too. The stupid brutus set me back alot of time because i was troubleshooting my installation when the amp was the problem the whole time.

Also quick sidenote, anyone with a 2016 ecoboost mustang, they don't make ho alternators for these cars because they already come with them. The premium has a 200 amp alternator, and you can't go any higher being a 4 cylinder and is already making as much power out of it as you can hold with the mechanical resistance provided on a 4 groove serpentine belt.


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## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

If you have a 200 amp alternator and still drop that bad something is setup wrong.

Btw yes you can go higher on a 4 banger. Had a 300 amp on the old 2.2l Toyota


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