# 2.1 installation in '07 New Beetle



## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

Hey Guys, I'm new here and like to show you the 2.1 installation of my VW New Beetle.

Last season I started with a pair of Fostex in a 2.5L closed enclosure. 
If you have more detailed questions or like to have more detailed pictures please answer. My englisch isn't the best to explain all the small things.





















In the trunk there is a Ciare 18" in a compression drive.















But the response of the sub is not as good as it could be. Actually I use a modified OEM headunit with a Zapco DC1000.4 with integrated Processor and this HU makes more noise I like to have. Additionally the dynamic EQ is very bad. Under 60Hz there is enough power and the more you here louder it changes the response.





In 2014 with this configuration I've become runner-up in AYA E2500 (it is a german audiophile competition with 2500€ price limit).



In between I have tried to add midbass.









but I like the 2.1 setup that much, that I dont have installed it for more than a test. Aditionally I don't find a saddler who wanted to make it. Or if they wanted to make it then for up to 1000€ and that was too much for me.

For this Season I will change my HU on an Alpine IVA 502 and a PXA-H800.







Furthermore I will install Fostex Fe166En in 8-9L bass-reflex. The Zapco will go for two oldschool Orion XTR100. But I'm still searching for Orion NT100, NT200 and the Beast. If you know someone to sell in good condition to germany please contact me 

with best regards Moe


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Sehr Schön! I like the mix of components. I think the Alpine front end will be a big improvement. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## djmekanix (Dec 30, 2013)

Wow! A lot of nice work happening here! Can't wait to see the finished results.


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

teldzc1 said:


> I think the Alpine front end will be a big improvement.


Yeah I hope so. My team member has changed form Mosconi 6to8 to Alpine PXA H800 in last year and that was a big step in dynamic and power on the sub.

Additionally I have a modified WD life box, so that I can use my flac media library with digital in and can control it with the IVA 502.

The Team member uses an Eminence Impero 18A in compression drive too.
We are building 10" kicks in compression drive in the doors the first time.
We will see how it works. Here are some impressions.









Have fun!


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## eddieg (Dec 20, 2009)

ok sub'd!


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## Vidar (Jan 13, 2015)

Wow, fabrication skills! Looking good!


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

eddieg said:


> ok sub'd!


Hey guy can you explain what it means please?


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## Vidar (Jan 13, 2015)

Moe85 said:


> Hey guy can you explain what it means please?


It means he has subscribed to this thread.


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

Oh i Understand  so i can train my english


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## Vidar (Jan 13, 2015)

It's forum "language". Not proper English.


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

gut gemacht!


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

gezeichnet!


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## req (Aug 4, 2007)

dang man! this is a very cool build. any information on how you are choosing the density of the compression drive membrane? 


btw, "compression drive" is another way to speak of an enclosure called "aperiodic".



> a·pe·ri·od·ic
> 
> /ˌāpirēˈädik/
> 
> ...


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## hot9dog (Mar 23, 2013)

Im watching this one, this is cool. Good work..


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Did you apply much EQ to the full range drivers? From what I understand they are better performers on-axis than off-axis.


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

req said:


> dang man! this is a very cool build. any information on how you are choosing the density of the compression drive membrane?
> 
> 
> btw, "compression drive" is another way to speak of an enclosure called "aperiodic".


The grid opening is an experience thing. We have chosen roundabout 1/4 of sd of the woofer. Normally we chose the type and density of the ap membran by measuring the impedance curve. But there is the grid on outside of the car and we don't wanted it wet.
For me a compression drive is a special type of aperiodic damping (physically it could be false). We have made the expererience that the bass in aperiodic goes the best with a minimum of volume. So we just have the volume the cone includes. That's the reason, too why we have build a funnel for the 10" driver in the doors. So we have a minimum of volume (just 1/2" around the driver) and no magnetic at the legs 

And the result confirm this. Once again here you see the fullrange measuring of the woofer wihtout any eq or filter.



and don't forget at this measuring the output of the radio!



On 20Hz there are 10dB missing! Here you have some measurments with filter of other ap cars here.





teldzc1 said:


> Did you apply much EQ to the full range drivers? From what I understand they are better performers on-axis than off-axis.


The wind shield is very steep. The driver performes reaaly good off axis. You've seen I made anything to better the performance of the driver. I have pimped aerodynamic of the enclosure best as possible an there is felt where I could made it on the driver too.
I have tested some damping materials and ways to damp the box. First I have tested the best point of damping in the Box.



then I have optimized the damping material



and this is the result at the ears in car without any eq 



for getting a good result I didn't had to use much eq. wideband right



and left



greetings Moe


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Awesome work! Keep us posted when you get the new DSP and amps in.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

subscribed.


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

In between we have measured and testet something. First I've optimized my measuring equipment. So the contact resistance is lower and the measurements are more real.





Then we have measured the 18" Eminence Impero in the trunk in compression drive (it's the VW Passat Wagon of my Teammember). Here's the producer pdf



and our meausrements



There you can see the renance frequenzy is 33Hz in original. In our way to drive it fs is by 28Hz and it was 30°F outside 

Then the 10" in ap doorboards was next in the line. It's a Eminence Beta 10a.





You can see out of the Box the fs is roundabout 80Hz, eminence says 51Hz 
In the ap funnel the fs goes down to 56Hz and the impedance peak is a half.
Then we have tried some layers. According to our experience it's the best when the impedance peak is the double of the loudspeaker impedance.

Then the frequency responses.



Here you can see that range of deeper bass is extended, but the efficiency of the fundamentol tone is much lower  If you want to use it as a subbass the it's okay but we wanted it for the kicks. Additionally the room modes in the door are really marked.

To find out if the chassis is the reason or the way of build we have implemented an 8" Mivoc MPA WM8 and addtionally the 8" in a 11,5L closed box.



Everytime the variaty with a half layer (impedance is the double of the loudspeaker impedance) the output in lowest frequency is the highest. The 8" works better than the 10" but not satisfying. The room modes of the door are to high and the efficiency in the kicks to low. The closed box is the best option or if you have the room for then choose an bass reflex.

If you want to try an ap than just choose it for closed box which are too small or without any volume (how we use it in the trunk, just the volume the cone includes).



Now back to the New Beetle. I have started to optimize my Fostex FE168En



Than I had to modify the remote of my aircon to fit it to my new center console.







If you have any questions, ask for


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

no comments? or is my english so bad, that no one understands?


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Your English is fine, believe me, there are native speakers with worse English than yours. These are some interesting projects, is your focus on aperiodic primarily for space saving? The response of the subwoofer doesn't look ideal, have you done anything to try to smooth it out, or is that pretty close to what you want? I'll be watching this, this is a fun project, much more fun than photo after photo of sound deadening.


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

What are the things you don't like at the response? On other projects we have damped the resonance peak but than it sounds more smooth and soft, like the typical hip hop bass. 
In this enclosure the sub has really deep bass output (at 20Hz 10db more than at 30Hz in a full range measuring) but additionally he kicks really hard, snare drums etc everyting fine contured. For me the best allrounder I've ever heard.

You have to know the measuring was otuside on the street, there were other cars driving by. Eventually this noise made the measuring more bad than it really is.


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

Sunday was working day. First I've installed a low weight damping in the doors with Silent Coat Multilayer, Absorber and 2mm Alubutyl.







Then I've installed the IVA 502 instead of the OEM Headunit. The aircondition had to be modified, because the IVA is to deep.









Then I've stripped the cables of the IVA.



et voila





It sounds so great. There is soooo much more of information. Focus is more sharp and the power of deepest bass is so unbelievable!! Here I have comparing measurings. There were no changes on the dsp and the level of the speakers. Look to the more on bass! I love it.

Old HU



IVA



Next step is to build the trunk new, for the coming amps, LiFePo4 and the PXA


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

LiFePo4 like Red Wine Audio amps? Very interested to see what you have in store. I like the concepts and directions you've taken on this build. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## knever3 (Mar 9, 2009)

Great build, love your dash and radio mods. I like that your are trying something different in drivers, but I wonder what something conventional in there would sound like? I don't imagine that those Fostex drivers can get that loud, but that's not the way you are going with, sound quality not volume.


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

The Fostex is a Little Ninja with a high Sensitivity. This one Sounds good and can loud but youre right. It is Limited, he Runs 18months without errors. The iva was 10min Build in and the Signal is so much better that i wanted it louder than the Fostex want  the mechanical end was reached 
That is the reason too, why i want this Season Build in the fe168en in Bass Reflex enclosure


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

Yesterday I've made a successful road trip


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## jpeezy (Feb 5, 2012)

some of my favorites, good buy!


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## optimaprime (Aug 16, 2007)

Dude this badass build ! The head unit is so pretty!


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

In the last weeks there was something goin' on. To get place for my Orions and to get them off the crash zone, we have built a new wooden trunk install.
We wanted an install, which is easy to modify and will be long in good condition, because we don't have to make new holes everytime we install other amps and other stuff.

At first the ground plate with a lot of drive-in nuts.



The second part of the ground plate to get of the woofer downstairs 





The groundplate will be grinded, polished and black stained.
Then we have built ligth weight and aerodynamic cross braces.











... and the plates for installing the amps and other stuff.







All together is a much stable but very leightweighted (kg) construction.



Here are two installing examples 





At his point a really big thx for my friend Olli who has made most of this amazing wooden work. 

In between I have tested an 8" midbass driver in roundabout 30-40l on dash board to close the frequency gap between widerang driver and the sub.





But the old problems are still there, no midbass on dashboard, red is a near distance measuring and the blue one on driver seat 



more is coming soon


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## Jonathan (Oct 6, 2011)

How is the sensitivity in these compression drives compared to a sealed box? I would also like to use an 18" sub, and your way of mounting it looks great.


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

The sensitivity in depth bass is much higher than a sealed box. Because of the high compression with higher liftings of the cone the max. output is lower eventually.


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## Jonathan (Oct 6, 2011)

Moe85 said:


> The sensitivity in depth bass is much higher than a sealed box. Because of the high compression with higher liftings of the cone the max. output is lower eventually.


Shouldnt the max output be similar to sealed? After all there is the same amout of air being moved? Cone area X Xmax.


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

The compression is too high. Before the xmax is reached the cone will be in big compression and than it does't sound good anymore. But until this point it is amazing glorious!!


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

8's in the dash? Even if it didn't sound good, the fact that you tried it is amazing!


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

10" could go, but the result should be the same


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## SWINE (Aug 29, 2008)

very interesting!


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## Moe85 (Feb 9, 2015)

In between I have sanded, sanded, sanded ... and painted the trunk construction 







Then I had to modify the trunk cover



For "stealth mode" I have painted the spare wheel box. Additionaly I have marked the points of glue 



At the end stick together the trunk and the construction with much of aluminium.









now I have to build the cover, but I don't like


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## teldzc1 (Oct 9, 2009)

This is such a cool build. So different from most builds I've seen.


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## abusiveDAD (Jan 7, 2009)

No more?


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## Elgrosso (Jun 15, 2013)

Ho my why did I miss this build when I searched for AP stuff! 

Please update! 



Moe85 said:


> You can see out of the Box the fs is roundabout 80Hz, eminence says 51Hz
> In the ap funnel the fs goes down to 56Hz and the impedance peak is a half.
> Then we have tried some layers. According to our experience it's the best when the impedance peak is the double of the loudspeaker impedance.
> 
> ...


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