# Best option for roof deadening and heat barrier?



## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

I am trying to find the best option to deaden the roof on my F150.. the rain is insanely loud. I used dynamat extreme on my last truck and it was a night and day difference. This time I would like to include something for a heat barrier since the Texas heat just sucks... bad... Something that is an all in one solution with an adhesive would be ideal.


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## Alrojoca (Oct 5, 2012)

I would stick to dynamat being light and effective compared to the rest of CLD, and you will only need about 30-35% coverage. 

Then some full coverage of ensolite foam with self adhesive, not so much for acoustics, more for insulation and longevity, the only one I can think of, is 
Raamaudio , unless you get it elsewhere and use some spray glue, and maybe use a thicker foam, like 1/4" or 3/8" raamaudio does not show the specs, I'm guessing it's 1/8" and want you you double it, in a roof I would not double layers of any material. 

And if you seek spl competition, 3000 w sub bass, then by all means double and go 100% coverage and spend more money and adding weight


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## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

LizardSkin?


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

We have a few options, some self adhesive and some not, messaged you our options. Let us know if you need anymore info on your project.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 10, 2009)

Never used this, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005Y14Q96/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I1I2VYGPQWF6A7&colid=1JMA6NRTXHK8Q


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## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

Found I have box of noico 50mil.. 25sqft.. should be enough to deaden roof.. just need a good budget heat barrier option to use on top. Some I have found I would have to spend hundreds on heat barrier... not gonna do that..


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

"3m Acoustic Thinsulate" is what you are after. 

It is extremely lightweight and will install without adhesive under the headliner. 
Of course some sort of high quality butyl CLD stuck to the inside of the roof panel before installing the thinsulate will also help.

3m acoustic thinsualte in smaller amounts is still available in different several thickness and lengths on eBay. Here is one such seller for the thicker stuff--


3M Thinsulate (TM) SM600L Acoustic Thermal Automotive Insulation for van and car | eBay


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## willis36 (Apr 12, 2013)

I have use a product called ezcool, works pretty good, is lightweight and easy to work with. Not self adhesive though, but its so light it doesn't need much to hold it. I tried to post a link but since this is my first post it wont let me. Can be found on Amazon for pretty cheap.


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## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Neoprene works well - lots of different thicknesses and a couple different densities from Foam by Mail. Nice stuff & free shipping over $75. Great prices too.


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

HP Stealth Shield from Heathshield products.
https://www.heatshieldproducts.com/automotive/sound-insulation/hp-stealth-shield

1/8 inch thick and made out of welding blankets and some vinyl I think. This company probably has the widest selection of automotive sound and heat products. I've heard only good things about their products. I would 100% install this stuff in my car if I pulled my headliner. I think to many people get caught up in sound absorbing vs heat reflecting and insulation products. CCF/MLV are great for what they are. To prevent heat inside the can there are many different items to choose from. I've used some of there under hood engine materials to prevent heat soak and keep my it's lower, on that end they have succeeded more than any type of foam could


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

- A flat white paint of the roof would be a good start, or the gold foil gear... but most do not want it to look too ugly.
- Vibration damping underneath
- Insulation after that.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Definitely vibration damper on the sheet metal. We follow that with Hydrophobic Melamine Foam as a thermal insulator/acoustic absorber. I've found thermal insulation to be more effective on a roof than a radiant barrier although I might consider a radiant barrier below the absorber. Thermal radiant barriers require an air gap between their reflective surface and the heat source and the absorber layer would create that space. This is pone of my favorite treatments. Rain pounding on the roof before treatment is only audible on the glass after treatment. The added thermal insulation reduces the work required from the HVAC system and having that work at lower levels also reduces internal noise levels. 

When it comes to radiant barriers, I keep coming back to the fact that the OEMs could coat the top of headliners with a reflective surface for pennies per vehicle. Air space would already be in place. Such a simple fix that it's hard to believe it wouldn't be universal if it was effective.

While CCF will add thermal insulation, you'll want thicker than 1/8" or 1/4" to make a noticeable difference. CCF adds close to zero acoustic absorption, so I prefer to use a material that handles both.


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

Rudeboy said:


> ... I've found thermal insulation to be more effective on a roof than a radiant barrier although I might consider a radiant barrier below the absorber. Thermal radiant barriers require an air gap between their reflective surface and the heat source and the absorber layer would create that space.
> ...


Ideally one stops the heat at the input, which where the sun hits the roof.
Insulation will slow the heat ingress into the cab, but at the end of a day the inside will only be cooler if the roof is treated.

Whether that looks acceptable of not, is usually what dominates the decision over theory.

How it works...
It is basically a closed system so the heat is coming in through absorption, and simultaneously is being radiated out, as well as being convected into the air. 
So whiter coatings absorbe less, and flat paints radiate more than glossy ones.
A shiny chrome does not absorbe much, but also radiates very little.
But a thin plastic over a shiny foil raised the outgoing radiation.

In any case the roof can be hot as blazes and the insulation will certainly allow the car to get cooler quicker and use less cooling to remain at a pleasant temp.

And it could look like a cop car truck if the roof was painted white.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

No doubt a white roof is the way to go. I used to include it in my list of recommendations for this problem. As far as I know, no one ever considered it, so I stopped.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Rudeboy said:


> Definitely vibration damper on the sheet metal. We follow that with Hydrophobic Melamine Foam as a thermal insulator/acoustic absorber. I've found thermal insulation to be more effective on a roof than a radiant barrier although I might consider a radiant barrier below the absorber. Thermal radiant barriers require an air gap between their reflective surface and the heat source and the absorber layer would create that space. This is pone of my favorite treatments. Rain pounding on the roof before treatment is only audible on the glass after treatment. The added thermal insulation reduces the work required from the HVAC system and having that work at lower levels also reduces internal noise levels.
> 
> When it comes to radiant barriers, I keep coming back to the fact that the OEMs could coat the top of headliners with a reflective surface for pennies per vehicle. Air space would already be in place. Such a simple fix that it's hard to believe it wouldn't be universal if it was effective.
> 
> While CCF will add thermal insulation, you'll want thicker than 1/8" or 1/4" to make a noticeable difference. CCF adds close to zero acoustic absorption, so I prefer to use a material that handles both.


And the thicker 3M acoustic thinsulate, while fairly expensive still fits the bill for sound and heat insulation, right ?? Better then Melamine ??


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

seafish said:


> And the thicker 3M acoustic thinsulate, while fairly expensive still fits the bill for sound and heat insulation, right ?? Better then Melamine ??


We used and sold 3M Thinsulate Acoustic for many years before switching to HMF, which we did after QC problems with 3M and a more than doubling in cost. It's a very good product, or at least was. I haven't seen any for several years.

HMF and Thinsulate Acoustic perform almost identically, at the same thickness. Both are fairly expensive. I've come to prefer HMF because of its dimensional stability and a few other things. Definitely would not say that Thinsulate is better than HMF.


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## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

Rudeboy said:


> We used and sold 3M Thinsulate Acoustic for many years before switching to HMF, which we did after QC problems with 3M and a more than doubling in cost. It's a very good product, or at least was. I haven't seen any for several years.
> 
> HMF and Thinsulate Acoustic perform almost identically, at the same thickness. Both are fairly expensive. I've come to prefer HMF because of its dimensional stability and a few other things. Definitely would not say that Thinsulate is better than HMF.


Do you glu the Hydrophobic Melamine Foam to the roof? Does anyone make one with an adhesive back and who has the best prices? I have the deadner.. just need the HMF!


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## Second Skin (Aug 5, 2010)

Got-Four-Eights said:


> Do you glu the Hydrophobic Melamine Foam to the roof? Does anyone make one with an adhesive back and who has the best prices? I have the deadner.. just need the HMF!


We sell our Hydrophobic Melamine Foam with a 425 degree PSA backing for easy self adhesive applications like roofs. You can see that product here Mega Zorbe  each sheet is 8 sqft 4' x 2' at 1/2" thick.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 16, 2005)

Got-Four-Eights said:


> Do you glu the Hydrophobic Melamine Foam to the roof? Does anyone make one with an adhesive back and who has the best prices? I have the deadner.. just need the HMF!


Almost always. If there is a sun roof, I use either 3M Super 90 or V&S 1081 high temp contact cements. It's pretty easy. Figure out where the piece is going, test fit. Spray the HMF with the contact cement, heavier coat then usual. Immediately press the HMF in place to transfer adhesive to the roof. Pull the HMF away, hold it until the adhesive is tacky and press into place. 

If there isn't a sunroof and there is a fairly snug fit between the headliner and roof, I'll either use a light coat of one of the above adhesives and not transfer adhesive and let it tack. Just press it in place. Plenty of hold to let you get the headliner back up. I also use a Loctite construction adhesive in a caulk gun tube. Hit the HMF in a couple of spots, press into place and done.


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## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

Is there any reason I cannot use this stuff in combination with the noico I have on hand? 

UltraTouch 48 in. x 6 ft. Radiant Barrier-30000-11406 - The Home Depot


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Got-Four-Eights said:


> Is there any reason I cannot use this stuff in combination with the noico I have on hand?
> 
> UltraTouch 48 in. x 6 ft. Radiant Barrier-30000-11406 - The Home Depot


That is a radiant barrier type inslation which means it needs an airspace between it and the panel you are trying to insulate, so NO gluing it in place.
So depending on how heavy it is, the headliner may or may not support it in place. 

My .02... You are going through a lot of effort to do this install, why not just spend a little more to get the proper material...the 3m acoustic thinsulate or the HMF ??


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## Got-Four-Eights (Sep 10, 2011)

seafish said:


> That is a radiant barrier type inslation which means it needs an airspace between it and the panel you are trying to insulate, so NO gluing it in place.
> So depending on how heavy it is, the headliner may or may not support it in place.
> 
> My .02... You are going through a lot of effort to do this install, why not just spend a little more to get the proper material...the 3m acoustic thinsulate or the HMF ??


Looks like 150-200$ to do the HMF.. a lot of $ for something it doesn't NEED.. more of a want than anything else. I still have other items to finish up on.. might have to put this on the back burner for now.


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## seafish (Aug 1, 2012)

Got-Four-Eights said:


> Looks like 150-200$ to do the HMF.. a lot of $ for something it doesn't NEED.. more of a want than anything else. I still have other items to finish up on.. might have to put this on the back burner for now.


Did you check out that eBay link for the 3m product. Looks like you could get in for less then that depending which thickness you choose and how many square feet you need.


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## FordEscape (Nov 23, 2014)

Slight hijack ....

I'm in hot Texas but my car/roof is white and thermal is a tertiary concern for me at best - my main interest is improved cabin acoustics.

I've got ~<1/4" between my roof and magnet-retained molded headliner panel (yes, that's the maximum _between_ the structural ribs).

I can apply CLD to the roof to reduce panel resonance/'booming' (and that's planned).

*But with that limited ~1/4" space there's nothing beyond CLD I can do to meaningfully improve the acoustic properties for my large SUV cabin roof plane, correct?*

(Floorpan/firewall, doors/hatch, kick and cargo area quarter panels are getting the 'traditional' CLD + continuous MLV/CCF decoupler acoustic treatment; I've honestly not decided on an acoustic 'sound absorbing' insulation for the large cargo-area quarter panel, hatch and other 'dry-side' voids .... those are thick voids and though HMF is probably best the cost has me considering things like rock-wool stuffing)


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

FordEscape said:


> ...
> I've got ~<1/4" between my roof and magnet-retained molded headliner panel (yes, that's the maximum _between_ the structural ribs).
> ...
> *But with that limited ~1/4" space there's nothing beyond CLD I can do to meaningfully improve the acoustic properties for my large SUV cabin roof plane, correct?*
> ...


In a normal bathroom, if the shower curtain is off and there are no towels hanging, it is a sonic nightmare.
Just a plastic shower curtain does a lot, and a few hanging towels do a lot.

If you have 1/4", then some felt might be worth trying?
If it magnetically attach, just put a few foot wide pieces wherever they do not interfere and see what it does. That stuff if usually $10/yard at a fabric store, so you might be into it for ~$20 to give it a test?




FordEscape said:


> ...
> ...
> I can apply CLD to the roof to reduce panel resonance/'booming' (and that's planned).
> ...


I have a small car with hole where the radio goes, and no carpet or sound material at all.
Yes - It is noisy.

I put just a few small sections/strips of dynamat on the floor, and it did wonders.
So it is possible that you do not need the whole thing covered.
You will want the strips going front-back and left-right, or some x-pattern to get most of the modes absorbed.

If you feel that you need more hen just start filling in the blanks.


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## Swaglife81 (Oct 15, 2016)

I love threads like this. Going back on what rudeboy said referring to white paint. I don't remember if it was Nascar or Formula racing. There was a time where white paint was used under or on a intake manifold just to help heat soak. Don't quote me on that but it was something used in racing with white paint used strategically. The past year is the first time I've owned a black interior car. The black is definitely retaining summer heat more than any of the cars Ive had in the past. I thought it was just exterior paint color. I've always leaned towards grays, lights grays, etc. Once I hit summer with this black interior I can really feel the heat difference. Gray is light silver exterior. I really think guys concerned about heat need to look at the HP Heatshield made out of welding blankets. Going on what Holmz just mentioned. I helped a buddy protect a chicken coop, it was a walk in coop. Bigger than the average bathroom. We lined the whole building in felt. After that the coup felt really cool in the summer. Suprised what the felt covered wood coup would do. Something to think about. I can really only chime in on my life experiences. Since a car is an acoustic nightmare might as well use products that help with both issues


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Swaglife81 said:


> I love threads like this. Going back on what rudeboy said referring to white paint. I don't remember if it was Nascar or Formula racing. There was a time where white paint was used under or on a intake manifold just to help heat soak. Don't quote me on that but it was something used in racing with white paint used strategically. The past year is the first time I've owned a black interior car. The black is definitely retaining summer heat more than any of the cars Ive had in the past. I thought it was just exterior paint color. I've always leaned towards grays, lights grays, etc. Once I hit summer with this black interior I can really feel the heat difference. Gray is light silver exterior. I really think guys concerned about heat need to look at the HP Heatshield made out of welding blankets. Going on what Holmz just mentioned. I helped a buddy protect a chicken coop, it was a walk in coop. Bigger than the average bathroom. We lined the whole building in felt. After that the coup felt really cool in the summer. Suprised what the felt covered wood coup would do. Something to think about. I can really only chime in on my life experiences. Since a car is an acoustic nightmare might as well use products that help with both issues


Black paint doesn't retain heat like it seems your thinking. It absorbs light and converts it to heat. If nascar used a white paint under the hood (where no light hits it), it's not because its white. That's just what it happened to be.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## Holmz (Jul 12, 2017)

SkizeR said:


> Black paint doesn't retain heat like it seems your thinking. It absorbs light and converts it to heat. If nascar used a white paint under the hood (where no light hits it), it's not because its white. That's just what it happened to be.


The headers glowing red may not be light like sunlight, but it is not dark.
The gold looking thermal barrier plastics are used for that... Usually for the firewall.
The white paint is a Smoky Yunick take on an engineered thermal system, does get most of the way.

They also use ceramic coatings to keep the heat in the pipe, so they address it at the source and address keeping it out at the receiving end.

They may so do it to look pretty and keep Sponsorship.


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