# Rockford Punch amp lineage discussion



## Chuck

A while back we had a discussion about the proper ranking for the old school Punch amps. It was buried in the Old School Showoff thread, so I'd like to get the info out here for discussion.
First, the list of Punch amps from the beginning to the end of the commonly accepted Old School period*... if I've missed any, I'm sure you guys will let me know:

Original Punch (photo courtesy BigD)









2nd Generation Punch









Punch HD (photo courtesy David in Germany)









Punch DSM









Punch DSM ix









Punch x2









Punch A2









The George Foreman Punch Grille










Most of us are pretty sold on the early ones, but I have heard that certain series of amps were >meh<, particularly the iX and later stuff. I split the business in or around '92, so I don't know. I need to see some blanks filled in here.
I'd like to hear from people who have a range of experience with all the different Punch series, and post up your stories and criticisms. Maybe throw them in order according to your preference too.

*Some of these pics were pulled off a Google image search and no doubt will go down rather quickly with bandwidth demands, so if anyone can supply me with decent replacement pics please PM me so I can edit this thread


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## LucidusRex

i believe there was one series earlier before your first on the list. iirc, they were small, under-dash booster amps they sold labeled as "the punch"


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## Chuck

True, but those were older, purely Jim Fosgate products. We could include them here, but I think it would just muddy the waters. I'm looking at stuff strictly after the Rockford VC guys appropriated the company.


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## bigdwiz

Chuck, I started a long list of RF amps and the year they were produced. I think adding pictures is a great addition. The list was put on the RF Forum, unfortunately, they moved all of their forums to Facebook at the end of 2011. Fortunately, I saved a copy of my hard work and research....still have a few holes missing, but it is pretty extensive up to around 1999. I'll post it later tonight when I get home.


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## Chuck

I hope you do post that stuff up D. I know you and I had a great time posting up info and stories on the earliest models, so I can imagine what a museum thread would turn out like. 

In the case of this thread, what I'm looking to do is establish a timeline for one specific category, the Punch amps, and look at their progression over the years. Maybe examine the design mistakes too, both cosmetic and performance-wise. 

For instance: one of the pics I posted above is from a DSMx2, which at the bottom of the cap I believe says "Trans Ana". I remember an audio friend of mine bemoaning how Punch amps have gotten steadily worse since "Rockford went Trans Ana". I have no idea what he meant, and since the last amps from my time in the business were the iX, I have no experience with the later stuff so I want to hear people's opinions and experiences on these different series.


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## sjr033

There is one missing. It looked like the A2/"Black & Grind" but it was silver and the end caps were gold.


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## RPercival

sjr033 said:


> There is one missing. It looked like the A2/"Black & Grind" but it was silver and the end caps were gold.












You are correct sir. These amps were pretty good but were quickly replaced by the "a" series. I have a couple...


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## jcorkin

what about these amps?


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## nosaj122081

That 60ix brings back memories, my first "real" amp, bought it outta the local classifieds in the parking lot of a McDonalds for $75... That thing was a hell of a little amp, SERIOUSLY underrated, always kept me in low power classes when I was competing. 30x2, but I ran the damn thing at 2Ω mono to an IDQ12v1, IIRC it hit like 130dB in an ext. cab Ranger. Never did burn up (but you could fry an egg on it), miss that thing. I used it in 4 or 5 different installs, beat up, missing end caps, over-worked, but kept on tickin'.

Also ran a 800a2 (with the black caps), it was a power monster (now it seems every other amp on the market is 1000W, but at the time it was something special), but it wasn't NEARLY as underrated, it made about [email protected]Ω mono IIRC.

The 60ix saw both sub and front stage duty, it had excellent sound quality (at least my 16 year old ears thought so), the 800a2 no worse, but also never ran it on anything but subs. 

Anyone remember the X-cards? Worked well, but damn, what a pain in the ass, had to unbolt the amp from it's mounting spot and bust at out the soldering iron to change crossover points (not to mention sitting down with a calculator). I remember sitting with an ohm meter and a pile of ****ty RadioShack resistors trying to match up 4 as best as possible...

I'm still an RF guy, I gave a new Soundstream a try, but was sorely disappointed. Got rid of it, switched to a brand spankin' new 200-2 and 300-1, and couldn't be happier. Fosgates aren't underrated like they used to be, but still solid performers, IMO. You maybe could get an equivalent (or better) amp for the same, or less than, price, but I can feel confident that I'm getting a good amp when I buy it.


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## indytrucks

I wish I could find anothe one of the big chrome 25 to Life Power 1000 5 channels. God I loved that amp. Should have never sold it. 

And I owned 3 of those red and silver amps. Nice little amps and sounded great.

Pics:


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## david in germany

Hey that is my Punch 75HD, pic was taken on my ping pong table. 


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


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## nosaj122081

I got talked outta one of those red & silver ones by a brick and motar salesman when they came out, said they had lots of returns because they had cooling problems (in retrospect, he proly just got a bigger commission off the Alpine he sold me)...

Is it just it my head, or is there a Rockford Fosgate - Spinal Tap connection? The font looks similar, and the gains on my current RFs go up to 11 (one louder than 10, one of the funniest movie moments ever).


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## sjr033

Some correct me if I'm wrong, but those red/silver amps were not part of the "Punch" line. I thought they were "Series 1"


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## Driven Audio Tony

The Red and Silver amps were not Punch Amps, they were the evolution of the Series-1 Line. If memory serves they were just called RF amps - models 2.3, 2.6x, 4.6x I think were the model #'s.


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## Prime mova

> Is it just it my head, or is there a Rockford Fosgate - Spinal Tap connection? The font looks similar, and the gains on my current RFs go up to 11 (one louder than 10, one of the funniest movie moments ever).



One louder than 10


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## ChrisB

tdehnke said:


> The Red and Silver amps were not Punch Amps, they were the evolution of the Series-1 Line. If memory serves they were just called RF amps - models 2.3, 2.6x, 4.6x I think were the model #'s.


I had a 4.6x and I ended up with two of them due to the problems that I had with the first one. My original one went back to Rockford Fosgate many times for noise problems, and after the third time, the RF Dealer gave me one for the price of installation. After all, without the 4 channel amp, my Sony Mobile ES deck was utterly useless unless I wanted to ride around listening to just my subwoofer. Don't even get me started on the problems I had with my CDX...

I think nosaj122081 made a good choice by going with the Alpine amp at the time. :laugh:


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## amalmer71

No offense to anyone, but I'm sure glad they didn't keep this design. Way too feminine looking, IMHO.










That's one thing I've always liked about RF. They've always (other than a few lines) had a brute and brawn look to them, and sometimes boarder-line of the goth or kind of a mid-evil look.

Like this one.


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## Chuck

david in germany said:


> Hey that is my Punch 75HD, pic was taken on my ping pong table.
> 
> 
> Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


I wish I could edit the post to give you proper credit David, but for some reason there is no edit button on that post.


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## tulse

I have an old Punch 40ix DSM (20X2) that I'm considering using to power tweeters. 

Should I open it up and check around? Check for leaky caps, anything else?

It still has the "idiot" seals.


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## david in germany

tulse said:


> I have an old Punch 40ix DSM (20X2) that I'm considering using to power tweeters.
> 
> Should I open it up and check around? Check for leaky caps, anything else?
> 
> It still has the "idiot" seals.


Just hook it up and run it. 



Chuck said:


> I wish I could edit the post to give you proper credit David, but for some reason there is no edit button on that post.


No issues man, somone jacked the pics many years ago and used them on amp guts. Look up the punch 75 and if you see pics of one with a magenta shroud (on my ping pong table) they are part of the series I took many moons ago.


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## david in germany

Ok I must make a correction, my magenta shroud pics were taken on my portable work bench. Lol google punch 75 and it is picture #13 or so.


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## drumcrusher

all of the forman grill amps from the 90's were the shizz. the last ones were the best, because of the trans ana circuitry that made them less noisy. the model after those, that you omitted, (200.2's, 400.4's etc.) were the exact model as the last model of the forman grills. i think somewhere after those first trapazoidal amps, they started using an undefeatable midbass eq that a lot of people have criticized. then they started selling out to best buy.


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## bamelanc

I had a 60.2 (silver/gold painted, pushed a pair of RF 10's) and the 400.4 (machined/black, MB Quart coaxes) bought from car audio store, then Best Buy started selling the 400.4a2. I loved those amps. Should have stowed them away for an old school install.

Now that I think about it, I still have an RF 2.3 somewhere in storage.


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## drumcrusher

Yea im using a 400x4 from the year before bridged on midbass right now. Pretty sure its the same amp internally as the 400.4.


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## seanarms

The 60ix brings back memories for sure. Very stout for its size and rating.


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## Zero Gauge

I love this thread. Nothing better than RF IMO. My current build will include a T1500bdcp with all RF zero gauge, battery clamps, dist blocks, etc. Best looking gear and how many companies under rate their amps? RF is notorious for being under rated. Those old school Punch being back good memories from the 90s.


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## drumcrusher

They dont get much love on these forums for whatever reasons. But they make solid amps even still. better than most of the old companies from way back that have gone overseas. Unfortunately they arent the groundbreakers that they were 20 years ago. And personally i like their amps from about 1996 back. The stuff that came after the "x2" amps just hasnt hit that sweet spot for me for some reason, although i have thought about using some of their newer sub amps, im sure they do their job well.


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## JAX

I heard a guy's system last week. he had new t1500bd and I think 2 15's and also a t600.4 
off a pioneer DD. fronts were focals.

the stuff was loud and pretty clean. of course he had like 4 times the amount of money in his stuff than me but it did sound good. 

the sub section was stupid loud and he was going to install another 1500bd.


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## IsakJohannessen

The output devices in a 600.5 I got here is soldered to the heat sink rail, is there a trick to get new one´s in? I had to go old school and clamp a new irf540 in.


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## Doc ProMos

Here is a little info on the lineage of RF... btw- don't shoot the messenger, I'm a PPI fan with some interest in old Fosgate stuff...

Pre-Rockford...
PR-5000 
PR-3500
PR-7000 (upgraded PR-5000)
PR-220, PR-250, PR-2100

then it's a little messy in the late '70's early 80's...

The Punch 40 and The Punch 100 were Pre and post Rockford... and there were 2 versions post Rockford of each of those... And one was with the Fosgate EQ "bump" and the other was without...(not sure if it was 1 Pre and 2 post Rockford or 1 Pre and 1 Post but I think it's the 1 Pre and 2 Post because there was a Royalty issue)

...to make it more confusing there was a PR-250 ll which was also post Rockford...

Then the Punch 360 around 1982...

After all of that then the MOSFET stuff started coming out .... PUNCH 45,75 etc...

Like I said, this is my understanding and could be a little off ... I am sure that BigD or tomtomjr could elaborate on my post and correct the errors....

thanx... Keith


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## bamelanc

I found this on teh interwebz. Orginally posted by Ron Trout, Fosgate Managing Director. He only lists the Punch lineage from 80 and up...I would like to see lineage with dates on every amp RF made...Power, Punch, RF, Series 1, etc...


1980 Punch 220 - 20 watts x 2 under dash amp w/Punch EQ - bass/treble sliders on the face - black fins - Bi-polar topology

1982 Punch 40 - 20 watts x 2 amplifier w/Punch EQ - bass/treble sliders - black wrap around finned heat sink - Bi-polar topology

1985 Punch 45 MOSFET - 22.5 watts x 2 amplifier w/Punch EQ - bass/treble knobs - black wrap around finned heat sink w/logo plate - MOSFET topology

1986 Punch 45 - 22.5 watts x 2 amplifier w/Punch EQ - bass/treble knobs - asymmetrical wide spaced heat sink – MOSFET topology

1991 Punch 45HD - 22.5 watts x 2 amplifier w/Punch EQ - bass/treble knobs - asymmetrical wide spaced heat sink – MOSFET topology - Hybrid design (half surface mount manufacturing)

1993 Punch 40 DSM - 20 watts x 2 amplifier w/Punch EQ - bass/treble knobs - black cast heatsink (grate style) w/round end bells - All N channel DSM topology

1995 Punch 40i DSM - 20 watts x 2 amplifier w/Punch EQ - bass/treble knobs - black cast heatsink (grate style) w/round end bells - All N channel Integrated SM topology

1996 Punch 40x2 - 20 watts x 2 amplifier w/Punch bass - X-card crossover - black cast heatsink (grate style) w/squared end bells - TransAna topology

1997 Punch 40.2 - 20 watts x 2 amplifier w/Punch bass - X-card crossover - grey cast heatsink (Space age style) w/gold end bells - TransAna topology

1998 Punch 45.2 - 22.5 watts x 2 w/Punch bass - LP crossover - Grey cast heatsink (Space age style) w/black end bells - TransAna topology

1999 Punch 100a2 - 50 watts x 2 w/Punch bass - LP crossover - Black cast heatsink (Space age style) w/ top grind and black end bells - TransAna topology

2000 Punch 100z2 - 50 watts x 2 w/Punch bass - LP crossover - Black cast heatsink (Space age style) w/ top grind and black end bells - TransAna topology

2001 Punch 100.2 - 50 watts x 2 w/Punch bass - LP crossover - Black cast heatsink (Grill style) w/ top grind and rounded black end bells - TransAna topology

2002 Punch 150s - 75 watts x 2 w/Punch bass - LP crossover - Black cast heatsink (Grill style) w/ top grind and rounded black end bells - TransAna topology

2003 Punch 201s - 50 watts x 2 w/Punch bass - LP crossover - Black cast heatsink (Grill style) w/ top grind and squared black end bells - TransAna topology

2004 Punch P2002 - 100 x 2 w/Remote Variable Punch bass - variable HP/LP/AP crossover - cast focused mass heatsink w/chrome wings - Trans Ana topology

2005 Punch 45 100 x 2 w/Remote Variable Punch bass - variable HP/LP/AP crossover - cast focused mass heatsink w/retro extruded trim - Trans Ana topology


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## Doc ProMos

Here is my new pick up ...
A Punch 40 from 1982 with extra wires and instructions...


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## david in germany

Doc nice find! Now you need the punch 100 to go with it. 


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


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## Doc ProMos

david in germany said:


> Doc nice find! Now you need the punch 100 to go with it.
> 
> 
> Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


Thanx... as soon as I can find one... keith


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## fj60landcruiser

Man, those Bring back some memories!


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## Chuck

The last time I saw a Punch 40, it was sitting in a box marked "repair" in the back of the store, circa 1984. No one bothered with it because we all thought it was yet another defective early Punch. One of the guys took it home to mess with it and found out it was actually a working amp someone had put in the wrong box. The store closed shortly thereafter so he got a "free" amp.


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## bigdwiz

These are great lists and I have intentions of sharing my _nearly_ complete one...I spent many months researching and gathering information and still have a few holes. I got pretty frustrated when Rockford removed their vintage forums but luckily I saved my info


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## bamelanc

So, I have a question about some of the heat sinks. I guess I never thought to ask... Anyway, I have always thought the copper tint to some of the heat sinks (particularly the punch 45/45HDs) was a manufacturing issue...like poor coverage when they are spraying the heat sinks black. Am I correct in assuming this is the issue?

BTW, thanks to CraigsList I picked this up recently. 










Powered right up...


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## david in germany

Yes, some of the older ones were subject to fading. Fosgate later did different finishes on the later models (pre hd and hd models) and later with the thick painted versions.


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## Chuck

Good score on the Power 650! It looks identical to mine. As BigD will tell you, you have the rarest of the rare. A lot of people go with the Power1000, but for me the 650 will always be the top of the line. 

Re, the bronze Punch amps....

Later amps had either a matte finish, or a thick paint that almost looked like it was shot with a Wagner Power Painter set on "globby discharge", but
early Rockford gear (extruded finned heatsinks, what I call the "sawtooth" family) was finished with a very odd paint process that looked almost like anodizing (and very well may have been).

The bronze amps didn't result from a manufacturing issue as much as it was a combination of a type of paint vs. an install location. One particular batch turned out to be UV and heat reactive, and if you put those amps in an exposed install location under glass - say, the back of a 3rd gen F body - the sink would turn a coppery color. The intense heat and UV combined did the trick. Like I said, it was just a certain batch. I've seen a pair of Punch 150s installed in the above mentioned rear deck area, exposed to the identical conditions, and one turned bronze while the other stayed black as night. 


If the amp has been taken care of and not allowed to rust, the effect is pretty amazing. I've gotten a lot of compliments on mine, and it will probably be the last amp I'll ever part with.


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## david in germany

Chuck said:


> The bronze amps didn't result from a manufacturing issue as much as it was a combination of a type of paint vs. an install location. One particular batch turned out to be UV and heat reactive, and if you put those amps in an exposed install location under glass - say, the back of a 3rd gen F body - the sink would turn a coppery color. The intense heat and UV combined did the trick. Like I said, it was just a certain batch. I've seen a pair of Punch 150s installed in the above mentioned rear deck area, exposed to the identical conditions, and one turned bronze while the other stayed black as night.


People often call/advertise these "special eddition" models when trying to sell them. They are really "defective color" edditions. 
Yes, 4" fan model Power 650! I have one too.


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## ChrisB

This was the most powerful Punch 150 that I ever owned:










I owned a couple of the 80s era thin finned ones, about 5 of the pre-hd ones, then RF lost me as a customer a couple of times with the HD series that had nothing but problems, and again with that 4.6x that was nothing but problems.


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## Chaos

Come to think of it, wouldn't the Punch amps be considered the single most long-lived line amps in the entire industry?

I can't think of another line that has been as consistently produced by effectively the same company for as long as Punch amps.


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## Chuck

Chaos said:


> Come to think of it, wouldn't the Punch amps be considered the single most long-lived line amps in the entire industry?
> 
> I can't think of another line that has been as consistently produced by effectively the same company for as long as Punch amps.


While I'm sure RF is still turning out awesome Punch-series amps, the current designs have nothing in common with the early stuff, aside from the fact they both help speakers convert electricity into motion.  Part of the early Rockford bragging rights were that the Punch amps were essentially hand made. The QC Dept was a huge guy with a rubber mallet and a bunch of measuring gear (IOW, the ads were completely true). Current designs are more efficient, I'm sure, but pumped out on assembly lines. It just ain't the same as getting that new amp out of the box and finding a birth certificate signed by the techs that put it together and tested it.


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## Chuck

david in germany said:


> People often call/advertise these "special eddition" models when trying to sell them. They are really "defective color" edditions.


You've actually seen people do that? A bronze Punch just showed up on Craigslist here, but to the guy's credit he simply called it "rare", which it is.



david in germany said:


> Yes, 4" fan model Power 650! I have one too.


Cool... I think BigD posted something a while back about how rare the 4 inch fan models were. Just a few hundred were made. We could start an exclusive club :laugh:


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## ChrisB

Chaos said:


> Come to think of it, wouldn't the Punch amps be considered the single most long-lived line amps in the entire industry?
> 
> I can't think of another line that has been as consistently produced by effectively the same company for as long as Punch amps.


Orion also kept the HCCA name throughout their many owners over the years.


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## david in germany

Chuck said:


> You've actually seen people do that? A bronze Punch just showed up on Craigslist here, but to the guy's credit he simply called it "rare", which it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool... I think BigD posted something a while back about how rare the 4 inch fan models were. Just a few hundred were made. We could start an exclusive club :laugh:


And then how many of that club have a Power 360 bipolar? 
Me Me Me!


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## ChrisB

Oh yeah, another thing that I wanted to throw in here. I tend to remember a repair tech telling me that the pre-HD punch amplifiers that I exclusively used in the good old days had the same build quality of the Power series at that time. I don't know if or when that changed, but I know as of recent years, I would generally only consider amplifiers out of their Power line.


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## bamelanc

Well a Punch 45 I own is obviously painted black but it appears to be fading to bronze color too. Seems your explaination fits. I thought it might have been a manufacturing defect where maybe the sink wasn't coated very well. That bronze 150 is very nice indeed. I have seen one guy on fleaBay advertise his Punch as having a "rare" copper heat sink.

I have a black 650 shroud for the smaller fan version this guy just gave to me when I picked up the Terminator. The lettering and on the top is obviously different too.


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## bamelanc

ChrisB said:


> This was the most powerful Punch 150 that I ever owned:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I owned a couple of the 80s era thin finned ones, about 5 of the pre-hd ones, then RF lost me as a customer a couple of times with the HD series that had nothing but problems, and again with that 4.6x that was nothing but problems.


I have had a 2.6x that had worked well for me.


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## Chuck

ChrisB said:


> Orion also kept the HCCA name throughout their many owners over the years.


Is Orion still around? I know their sister company a/d/s went under just a few years ago, and that was a horrible loss. I think the PH15 and PQ20 amps were just amazing.


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## Chuck

david in germany said:


> And then how many of that club have a Power 360 bipolar?
> Me Me Me!


Really? Does it work? They had terrible luck with the Power 360/Power VI amps.


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## bigdwiz

david in germany said:


> And then how many of that club have a Power 360 bipolar?
> Me Me Me!


Me Me too!! And yes, mine works, albeit a little beat up 





















Sorry, I shared the secret with everyone on the web, so it is no longer a secret how rare these jokers are...:argue:

Now, if I could just find a BiPolar Power 650, Power II, Power VI, Power 200.. never see those!


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## bamelanc

So, pardon my ignorance, but what is a BiPolar 650? How would you know that?


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## Chuck

About the bipolar 650 amps... sometimes they really kick butt, other times they just can't get their own butt out of bed. They go weeks at a time without doing the laundry, they sit around and watch daytime soaps with the blinds closed. 

Its a shame, really...


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## ChrisB

Chuck said:


> Is Orion still around? I know their sister company a/d/s went under just a few years ago, and that was a horrible loss. I think the PH15 and PQ20 amps were just amazing.


Allegedly they are going to be back, but Orion was the latest brand that Directed Electronics sold off. IIRC, the only car audio brand that Directed owns now is Polk Audio.


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## david in germany

Chuck said:


> Really? Does it work? They had terrible luck with the Power 360/Power VI amps.


Works perfect! Draws about 4A at idle.


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## bigdwiz

Chuck said:


> About the bipolar 650 amps... sometimes they really kick butt, other times they just can't get their own butt out of bed. They go weeks at a time without doing the laundry, they sit around and watch daytime soaps with the blinds closed.
> 
> Its a shame, really...


It's funny, Wayne Harris did an interview for Auto Sound & Security back in the 90's and he talked about the BiPolar 650's. As Chuck mentioned, many of the early Fosgate/RF amps had problems, the BP 650 included. Wayne mentioned keeping spare parts for the amps so he could repair the amps before the competitions if needed. He also mentioned Rockford swapping out his BP 650's for the Mosfet 650's and they were much stable. Although this was the case, many years later he found out how few of the BP 650's RF actually made, he seemed bummed he didn't keep a few of them. I've heard Rockford say as few as 50 were made (BiPolar Power 650's), but I have no concrete verification of that statement, so take it for what it is.


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## bamelanc

bigdwiz said:


> It's funny, Wayne Harris did an interview for Auto Sound & Security back in the 90's and he talked about the BiPolar 650's. As Chuck mentioned, many of the early Fosgate/RF amps had problems, the BP 650 included. Wayne mentioned keeping spare parts for the amps so he could repair the amps before the competitions if needed. He also mentioned Rockford swapping out his BP 650's for the Mosfet 650's and they were much stable. Although this was the case, many years later he found out how few of the BP 650's RF actually made, he seemed bummed he didn't keep a few of them. I've heard Rockford say as few as 50 were made (BiPolar Power 650's), but I have no concrete verification of that statement, so take it for what it is.


What makes it bipolar? Serious question...


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## Chuck

One of the dealer posters I had was a door-sized pic of an amp circuit board hovering over an ocean. The RF logo was at the top, under the board image it had some slogan like "the amp so powerful it walks on water". I think the image was a BiP650.


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## bigdwiz

bamelanc said:


> What makes it bipolar? Serious question...


Not BiPolar like your high school girlfriend , it refers to the type of output devices used. RF began using (and heavily marketing) Mosfet output devices around 1984/5. This is why so many of their amps said "Mosfet" in the product name(s).


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## Doc ProMos

Here is an Oldie.... Fosgate PR-2100...


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## bamelanc

Ok, I heard a rumor about Punch 45's You guys might already know this is true or that this is false...anyway, here is what I heard. The 3rd gen Punch 45's asymmetric heatsink with red "Rockford Fosgate"...were not made with fuses on the board like models 75 and 150. BUT Fosgate started to put them on the board the last couple months of production. The 45's with the fused boards are particularly rare because of this feature. 

So, understand what I'm saying? I want to know if there is truth to this.

This guy vvv


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## ChrisB

bamelanc said:


> Ok, I heard a rumor about Punch 45's You guys might already know this is true or that this is false...anyway, here is what I heard. The 3rd gen Punch 45's asymmetric heatsink with red "Rockford Fosgate"...were not made with fuses on the board like models 75 and 150. BUT Fosgate started to put them on the board the last couple months of production. The 45's with the fused boards are particularly rare because of this feature.
> 
> So, understand what I'm saying? I want to know if there is truth to this.
> 
> This guy vvv


Not sure about the fuse thing, but here is something you can do with the Punch 45: Modified Punch 45


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## bamelanc

ChrisB said:


> Not sure about the fuse thing, but here is something you can do with the Punch 45: Modified Punch 45


He states "This is the Rev. F Punch 45 (the one with fuses)." So it must have some truth to it. The serial on these two 45's I have start with AF... That said, would they be any more valuable than a standard Punch 45.


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## bigdwiz

bamelanc said:


> Ok, I heard a rumor about Punch 45's You guys might already know this is true or that this is false...anyway, here is what I heard. The 3rd gen Punch 45's asymmetric heatsink with red "Rockford Fosgate"...were not made with fuses on the board like models 75 and 150. BUT Fosgate started to put them on the board the last couple months of production. The 45's with the fused boards are particularly rare because of this feature.
> 
> So, understand what I'm saying? I want to know if there is truth to this.



I've heard some of these have fuses, now you are making me want to go pull mine out to see if any of them do!


----------



## david in germany

Pre hd amps have the fuses. After hd models no fuses.


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


----------



## bigdwiz

david in germany said:


> Pre hd amps have the fuses. After hd models no fuses.


Not all of the Pre-HD's have fuses. I have one like pictured above with a channel out. I took off the bottom plate in hopes it was just a fuse, but found there were no fuses on the CB.


----------



## cleansoundz

Most of the pre-hd model rf punch series had internal fuses.


----------



## Chaos

ChrisB said:


> Orion also kept the HCCA name throughout their many owners over the years.



Fair enough, but Orion was bought out by Directed along with a number of other notable brands. Not quite the same thing as RF / Punch.


----------



## Chaos

Chuck said:


> While I'm sure RF is still turning out awesome Punch-series amps, the current designs have nothing in common with the early stuff, aside from the fact they both help speakers convert electricity into motion.  Part of the early Rockford bragging rights were that the Punch amps were essentially hand made. The QC Dept was a huge guy with a rubber mallet and a bunch of measuring gear (IOW, the ads were completely true). Current designs are more efficient, I'm sure, but pumped out on assembly lines. It just ain't the same as getting that new amp out of the box and finding a birth certificate signed by the techs that put it together and tested it.


That may all be true, but if anything, the newest generation of Punch amps have more in common with earlier designs in terms of appearance (they have gone back to the flat black "grilled" look) than the last (piano black) version.

Although the new amps are indeed mass produced, they still come with birth-sheets and make solid power for the money - which has almost always been a hallmark of the Punch line over the years.


----------



## bamelanc

cleansoundz said:


> Most of the pre-hd model rf punch series had internal fuses.


True, but not the 45's. As I stated above, the addition of the buss fuses was a revision towards the end of production (2 months) just before the HDs. I have the revised amp...there is evidence of non fused boards. I have from a reliable source this is true. Just wanted to see if any one else was hip to it.


----------



## Doc ProMos

Wanted to share my latest pickup.... bought it on eBay a few minutes after it was listed.... and wanted to thank BigDWiz for showing his on his website, I recognized it instantly and hit BIN...























... Keith


----------



## bamelanc

That dude gave that thing away. Coincidentally...I was talking to a guy named Keith about a 360 he didn't buy because the corner was cut off. Wouldn't it be a small world if that was the very amp.


----------



## Doc ProMos

That would be crazy....


----------



## Redakuma

What made fosgate such a great amp at the time was there were bullet proof, you could abuse them and they would run all day long. We use to install them in a tri mode (bridged to run a sub and stere to run highs) throw the amp under a seat and it would run for YEARS, without a problem and POUND like no other. the RF series in the silver and red trim were china garbage and started in the late 90's the start of the Fall of the 12volt industry,


----------



## bigdwiz

Doc ProMos said:


> Wanted to share my latest pickup.... bought it on eBay a few minutes after it was listed.... and wanted to thank BigDWiz for showing his on his website, I recognized it instantly and hit BIN... http://img.tapatalk.com/add85ea7-d754-df93.jpg
> 
> ... Keith[/QUOTE]
> 
> Great find! I've only seen a handful of those for sale on eBay in the past 5 years and got outbid on one at the last second. I felt sick in my stomach and couldn't believe it. As luck would have it, just a few weeks later, a dude posted on the now defunct RF Vintage forums asking if anyone knew about the amp he just found in the trunk of a car he bought used...turns out it was a near MINT Power 360! We went back and forth some, I told him he could prob do well selling it on eBay, but I would REALLY like to have it. We eventually worked out a deal where both parties felt satisfied.


----------



## bamelanc

Yeah, well, you guys know I'm looking for a 360 too. Don't be selfish, hook a brother up when you get wind of one. BTW, have I showed you what I found?










Drove all the way to Baton Rouge to pick this up from a guy.


----------



## bigdwiz

You've got to stop teasing and show the bottom of that amp...


----------



## bamelanc

bigdwiz said:


> You've got to stop teasing and show the bottom of that amp...


You all have one, but this one is mine.










Power VI


----------



## bigdwiz

I don't have a Power VI, but do have a nice piece of literature :deal2:


----------



## bamelanc

bigdwiz said:


> I don't have a Power VI, but do have a nice piece of literature :deal2:


I read it in the accessory forum you guys have with all that other old school literature. That said, know where any Z-Pre's are?


----------



## bigdwiz

> That said, know where any Z-Pre's are?


Hoarded by the collectors :laugh: (not me)? I found one once, but the guy wanted $350 and it was missing two of the plastic covers for the sliders. I want one, but not that bad...


----------



## bamelanc

I know a guy that has 4. I don't know what he'll sell them for though, even has one with the DBZ feature...he won't be selling that one. He offered me one, but I am trying to cut back...it...is...not...working...


----------



## bamelanc

I really am impressed with the condition of this piece.


----------



## Doc ProMos

bamelanc said:


> I know a guy that has 4. I don't know what he'll sell them for though, even has one with the DBZ feature...he won't be selling that one. He offered me one, but I am trying to cut back...it...is...not...working...


If your not interested in picking up that amp for yourself, can you help a brotha out..?!?!... of course there is a finders fee...hehe... Keith


----------



## Doc ProMos

New mint Punch 45


----------



## Chuck

Nice score... you even have the complete pigtail. Where did you get it?


----------



## Doc ProMos

I picked it up on EBay... guy had it in a car back in the day and took it out and had it in a box for 20+ years and found it cleaning his garage...Keith


----------



## bamelanc

Still waiting on BigD to get that amp lineage together and post it somewhere. :bigcry: Maybe some help from the forum Derek? I'll surely help research if you send me or post the info you have!


----------



## Doc ProMos

Here are a few new goodies I got in today.... thing is I'm stretching myself out to much and want to concentrate on PPI ... so I have decided to sell all my non PPI stuff including everything shown below along with 2- punch 40's Punch 45 (old school) and my PR-7000.... Keith


----------



## david in germany

I understand man. I have pretty much stopped buying but will reserve the right to buy a bipolar 650 (depending on price) if it comes along. I have learned not to be impulsive because it can get expensive!


----------



## david in germany

That 45 would go well with one of my 150s though.


----------



## Doc ProMos

Make an offer and its yours....keith


----------



## Prime mova

Doc ProMos said:


> Make an offer and its yours....keith


hey bro, I've made an offer, see pm


----------



## Durzil

Anyone got an any idea what a Rockford Fosgate Power 360.2 is worth?


----------



## Car_Audionut

I have a working Rockford Power 200 bipolar. I'll try to post a picture of it by the end of this week. These are hard to find. Anybody know what year these came out?


----------



## bigdwiz

Car_Audionut said:


> I have a working Rockford Power 200 bipolar. I'll try to post a picture of it by the end of this week. These are hard to find. Anybody know what year these came out?


I'll have to refer to my research when I get home, but I believe it was around 1981/82. Let me know if you have any interest in donating it to OldSchoolStereo  (or donation for a kick-back, meaning I'll pay for it...)


----------



## bamelanc

Car_Audionut said:


> I have a working Rockford Power 200 bipolar. I'll try to post a picture of it by the end of this week. These are hard to find. Anybody know what year these came out?


I'll drive to Austin to pick this up if you're interested in selling!


----------



## bamelanc

Durzil said:


> Anyone got an any idea what a Rockford Fosgate Power 360.2 is worth?


Are you referring to a 360a2? I don't think they made a 360.2 unless it's post 2000.


----------



## bamelanc

BigD, notice the sticker on this 150HD. It's the only one I've seen like that, is it a later revision...aftermarket sticker or knock off?


----------



## Doc ProMos

looks like it was printed on a sticker and put on...


----------



## bigdwiz

Doc ProMos said:


> looks like it was printed on a sticker and put on...


Yep, what a horrible reproduction! I guess to each his own, but that looks pretty bad IMHO :surprised:


----------



## Car_Audionut

bamelanc said:


> I'll drive to Austin to pick this up if you're interested in selling!


I have a friend that has one that's been updated (caps, higher tolerance parts, reflow, etc.) He owns a shop. I'll ask him if he wants to get rid of his Power 200 and let you guys know. I've seen it, it's clean and the inside is superb, I think he even hand matched some of the resistors he upgraded. Part for part upgrade except for the caps are Panasonics 105 degree instead of 85 and some resistors that run hot are wire wound units. If I end up buying his for myself, then mine might be up for grabs.

As for right now, I'm keeping mine since I also collect old school rockfords.


----------



## FergusAudi

Just picked up this beauty off of CL for 30 bucks. Was missing one of the internal fuses. Popped one in and she fired up perfectly.

I had 2 2nd gen 45s back in the day running 3 tens and my front stage and I miss those little power houses. Collection now includes a Power 300, currently in the car and now this 150. Not sure how I'm going to use this new edition just yet.


----------



## bamelanc

I have had very little success on CL. Seems they only want local pick up or can't take paypal...and they hate paypal, like it used to beat them up when they were in school or something. I have seen a lot of good deals that seem to fall through...cept for the 4" 650 I stole in Houston for 200. That's the only thing I've been able to buy off CL.


----------



## bamelanc

bigdwiz said:


> Yep, what a horrible reproduction! I guess to each his own, but that looks pretty bad IMHO :surprised:


I guess if the amp works then you can get a legit sticker...


----------



## FergusAudi

I guess it's a patience thing with CL. 200 for the 4"650. WOW. That is a needle haystack.


----------



## bamelanc

FergusAudi said:


> I guess it's a patience thing with CL. 200 for the 4"650. WOW. That is a needle haystack.


Yep, always searching for other needles. Found some good deals, but not the proverbial "needle in the haystack" since. 

Side note...A 4" 650 sold for 1100 the other day on eBay Couldn't have been listed for more than a few minutes before it went BIN. It was definitely minty with the original box. I would say 9.5/10.


----------



## bigdwiz

bamelanc said:


> I have had very little success on CL. Seems they only want local pick up or can't take paypal...and they hate paypal, like it used to beat them up when they were in school or something. I have seen a lot of good deals that seem to fall through...cept for the 4" 650 I stole in Houston for 200. That's the only thing I've been able to buy off CL.


I tried to get my buddy down in Houston to pick that one up for me, must've been a little too late 

I'll trade you a 650 with a BNIB shroud for it...but it's the regular fan size


----------



## bigdwiz

Here's the 4" Fan 650 Mosfet *bamelanc* was referring to:

Rockford Fosgate Power 650 Mosfet 4 Inch Fan Rare Old School | eBay


----------



## bamelanc

I wouldn't have paid that much for it...particularly since I already have one, but it sold fast. SOMEONE wanted it! I'm looking for a minty Power 300 now. I have a first gen 150 on the way also, happy about that.


----------



## bigdwiz

I have a buddy in Rhode Island who has a local contact to powder coat the shrouds, plus has the prints on file at a local print shop and they can silk screen the original graphics on Power 300's and 650's. We haven't created the Power 1000 graphic yet. We can get 10 shrouds powdercoated for the same price as one, so we usually get several people together to have this done. I had (1) Power 300 and (2) Power 650 shrouds done last time and they look fantastic. I have 2 more 650 shrouds needing to be refinished, so you guys let me know if you have any 300's or 650's needing to be redone. If I recall correctly, it was around $25-30 each for the powdercoating, plus 40 or so for the screening.

Here's a pic of the completed lot...(notice the 4" fan model...not mine )


----------



## bamelanc

bigdwiz said:


> I have a buddy in Rhode Island who has a local contact to powder coat the shrouds, plus has the prints on file at a local print shop and they can silk screen the original graphics on Power 300's and 650's. We haven't created the Power 1000 graphic yet. We can get 10 shrouds powdercoated for the same price as one, so we usually get several people together to have this done. I had (1) Power 300 and (2) Power 650 shrouds done last time and they look fantastic. I have 2 more 650 shrouds needing to be refinished, so you guys let me know if you have any 300's or 650's needing to be redone. If I recall correctly, it was around $25-30 each for the powdercoating, plus 40 or so for the screening.
> 
> Here's a pic of the completed lot...(notice the 4" fan model...not mine )


I have a regular 650 shroud. It's pretty beat up...could use some reconditioning.


----------



## david in germany

bigdwiz said:


> I have a buddy in Rhode Island who has a local contact to powder coat the shrouds, plus has the prints on file at a local print shop and they can silk screen the original graphics on Power 300's and 650's. We haven't created the Power 1000 graphic yet. We can get 10 shrouds powdercoated for the same price as one, so we usually get several people together to have this done. I had (1) Power 300 and (2) Power 650 shrouds done last time and they look fantastic. I have 2 more 650 shrouds needing to be refinished, so you guys let me know if you have any 300's or 650's needing to be redone. If I recall correctly, it was around $25-30 each for the powdercoating, plus 40 or so for the screening.
> 
> Here's a pic of the completed lot...(notice the 4" fan model...not mine )


From the fosgate forum? I hate that we all lost contact. He had my 650 and 300 done on the first run. Now I forgot his name... Damn..


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


----------



## bigdwiz

david in germany said:


> From the fosgate forum? I hate that we all lost contact. He had my 650 and 300 done on the first run. Now I forgot his name... Damn..
> 
> 
> Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


Yeah, Mike aka fingaz22. He's still around, just not really on the forums.


----------



## Doc ProMos

BigD, got that PR-235 in today... it's actually in very good shape... the switches are still shiny and it has good length on the wires and has the DIN with it as well... I'll post a couple pics when I get home... keith


----------



## bigdwiz

Nice, Keith. Looking forward to seeing the pics


----------



## Doc ProMos

Here we go... and the writing that was on front wiped off with a wipey ...


----------



## david in germany

bigdwiz said:


> Yeah, Mike aka fingaz22. He's still around, just not really on the forums.


Yes! Man I hope he shows up sometime around here. 


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


----------



## adrenalinejunkie

Guys, how much do RF 500M's go for?


----------



## bamelanc

Doc ProMos said:


> Here we go... and the writing that was on front wiped off with a wipey ...


So what happened to you focusing only on PPI? I don't outbid you on PPI stuff, stop outbidding me on RF stuff!!


----------



## Prime mova

bamelanc said:


> So what happened to you focusing only on PPI? I don't outbid you on PPI stuff, stop outbidding me on RF stuff!!


Maybe this, iirc some Fosgate engineers actually founded PPI, the engineers left the Fosgate company just before Rockford took over. Therefore these Fosgate's have been sired by the same parents lol


----------



## Chuck

bigdwiz said:


> I have a buddy in Rhode Island who has a local contact to powder coat the shrouds, plus has the prints on file at a local print shop and they can silk screen the original graphics on Power 300's and 650's. We haven't created the Power 1000 graphic yet. We can get 10 shrouds powdercoated for the same price as one, so we usually get several people together to have this done. I had (1) Power 300 and (2) Power 650 shrouds done last time and they look fantastic. I have 2 more 650 shrouds needing to be refinished, so you guys let me know if you have any 300's or 650's needing to be redone. If I recall correctly, it was around $25-30 each for the powdercoating, plus 40 or so for the screening.



What kind of powder-coating is he doing? Matte or pebble finish?
Does he have a file for the back? My 4" 650 is near-pristine but it does have that quarter-sized scrape where the wire list is printed.


----------



## Chuck

bigdwiz said:


> Here's the 4" Fan 650 Mosfet *bamelanc* was referring to:
> 
> Rockford Fosgate Power 650 Mosfet 4 Inch Fan Rare Old School | eBay



If you read my P650 sale ad I mention one mint 650 sold for over a grand, NIB. That was the one I was talking about. The guy selling it, Manny, beat me to that amp and dozens of others back in the day. I somehow managed to score my 650 but he got everything else. After reading his feedback it looks like he's selling everything now.


----------



## Doc ProMos

bamelanc said:


> So what happened to you focusing only on PPI? I don't outbid you on PPI stuff, stop outbidding me on RF stuff!!


What we need to do is have a thread with people's eBay and DIYMA screen names... btw-- I'm buying a few items to trade with a RF collector that has some PPI stuff I want... the item I'm bidding on now is the last Fosgate item I'm bidding on... ?


----------



## david in germany

My eBay name is tacobel2 but I haven't picked any audio stuff up lately.

If you see me bidding on something you want, please let me know.
David


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


----------



## bamelanc

Doc ProMos said:


> What we need to do is have a thread with people's eBay and DIYMA screen names... btw-- I'm buying a few items to trade with a RF collector that has some PPI stuff I want... the item I'm bidding on now is the last Fosgate item I'm bidding on... &#55357;&#56396;


I don't collect PPI, but I have seen a lot of PPI art and black series amps for sale on CL the last few days.

You still have that PR-7000, Power 360 and the Fosgate 2100 or have they sold. 

I saw you had a lot of that stuff on eBay the last couple of weeks.

BTW, my eBay name is my DIYMA name.


----------



## Doc ProMos

My eBay name is kilo17.... I still have the PR-7000, the PR-2100, the Mint Punch 40 slider with instructions, the PR-235 and a PR-250 which is missing preamp.... I sold the 360 and the Power 300 ( what a mistake-- girl bought it and punished me on feedback cause it was missing a screw on the bottom plate and was scratched, which was in the pictures and I offered to let her return it but no response).. anyway I decided to hold on to them to make a deal with a RF/Fosgate collector.... keith


----------



## Doc ProMos

btw- what does bamelanc stand for... i have tried to figure it out for weeks...?


----------



## Prime mova

Doc ProMos said:


> What we need to do is have a thread with people's eBay and DIYMA screen names... btw-- I'm buying a few items to trade with a RF collector that has some PPI stuff I want... the item I'm bidding on now is the last Fosgate item I'm bidding on... ?


It would be epic DOC to see you champion the above thread. I've seen other forums discuss eBay listings and member interest in the items...let's at least try to work together and get some of this eye candy a little cheaper.


----------



## Doc ProMos

I dunno if its great to have it out in the open...i am gonna start a thread in the Private PPI forum...keith


----------



## Doc ProMos

The thread has been started... thanx


----------



## Prime mova

Doc ProMos said:


> I dunno if its great to have it out in the open...i am gonna start a thread in the Private PPI forum...keith


Good idea...


----------



## bamelanc

Doc ProMos said:


> btw- what does bamelanc stand for... i have tried to figure it out for weeks...?


No real meaning, trust me. Wish I could have a cool name like some on here...something like RFampKid, or BigBbiz.


----------



## Car_Audionut

Works! I need to replace four 1/2w transistors since they run hot (see brown centers on right side of board) and I might as well replace the caps, even though not leaking, old past their prime. Still uses DIN input. So here it is....

The Elusive Rockford Punch Power 200:


----------



## bamelanc

Car_Audionut said:


> Works! I need to replace four 1/2w transistors since they run hot (see brown centers on right side of board) and I might as well replace the caps, even though not leaking, old past their prime. Still uses DIN input. So here it is....
> 
> The Elusive Rockford Punch Power 200:


Oh that is f'n nice dude. Love it. Does that model work with the Z-pre? Speaking of, do you know any one that has one?


----------



## bigdwiz

Awesome Power 200! Yes, they work with the pre-250, Pre-Z and Pre-ZX. I believe they will also work with the 2100's EQ, but haven't tried to confirm.


----------



## bigdwiz

Chuck said:


> What kind of powder-coating is he doing? Matte or pebble finish?
> Does he have a file for the back? My 4" 650 is near-pristine but it does have that quarter-sized scrape where the wire list is printed.


Chuck, it is a pebble finish, looks VERY close to the original finish. Mike is real particular and spent some time with the powder coater and tested different finishes until he was happy with the results.

We don't have a print file for the back, but think this would be great. I know it's a long shot, but I'm gonna contact Eric at RF to see if they have and would share these old print files. My guess is they have them, but won't share. Only way to find out is to ask! I'll start a new thread about refinishing and re-screening RF amps so we can keep track of any updates or print files.


----------



## Chuck

Car_Audionut said:


> Works! I need to replace four 1/2w transistors since they run hot (see brown centers on right side of board) and I might as well replace the caps, even though not leaking, old past their prime. Still uses DIN input. So here it is....
> 
> The Elusive Rockford Punch Power 200:


Nice. Surprised BigD didn't mention this, but you have an early Power 200. Notice the bottom of the board still has the Power II logo on it.


----------



## bamelanc

So, this amp says Power 200 on the base and the interior says Power II. Will an earlier model say Power II on the base? Like the board was still in production and they changed the shell. My Power VI says Power VI on the bottom...could I find a Power 300 with a Power VI board?

So let's discuss the Power series before Power 300 Mosfet, 650 Mosfet as we know them. Here is what I know...are there any other amps to the power series that need to be added?

Power II
Power 200
Power VI
Power 300 without the shroud...was it a mosfet?
Power 360 
Power 650 bipolar

What is missing? Variations?


----------



## bamelanc

I have another question. I've seen lots of brochures and the RF site puts them together too. But the Punch 30HD is listed with the 3rd Gen 45, 75, 150. When did the original Punch 30 come out if the HD made it out with the 3rd gen punches. Was the 30HD an early run for the HDs...so much so it was listed with earlier punch models?


----------



## bigdwiz

bamelanc said:


> I have another question. I've seen lots of brochures and the RF site puts them together too. But the Punch 30HD is listed with the 3rd Gen 45, 75, 150. When did the original Punch 30 come out if the HD made it out with the 3rd gen punches. Was the 30HD an early run for the HDs...so much so it was listed with earlier punch models?


The 30HD was the first HD series to come out, so this is why you see them w/ some of the Pre-HD models. The non-HD Punch 30 was only available for a short period IIRC


----------



## bigdwiz

Chuck said:


> Nice. Surprised BigD didn't mention this, but you have an early Power 200. Notice the bottom of the board still has the Power II logo on it.


Good eyes, Chuck . I didn't even notice until you pointed it out...


----------



## bigdwiz

bamelanc said:


> So, this amp says Power 200 on the base and the interior says Power II. Will an earlier model say Power II on the base? Like the board was still in production and they changed the shell. My Power VI says Power VI on the bottom...could I find a Power 300 with a Power VI board?
> 
> So let's discuss the Power series before Power 300 Mosfet, 650 Mosfet as we know them. Here is what I know...are there any other amps to the power series that need to be added?
> 
> Power II
> Power 200
> Power VI
> Power 300 without the shroud...was it a mosfet?
> Power 360
> Power 650 bipolar
> 
> What is missing? Variations?


That looks right to me. The early Power 300 was bipolar, the first MOSFET Power series was the 650 introduced late '84 as a replacement to the problem ridden 650 bipolar (which only around 50 were produced). I'd like to have one of my 650 Mosfet's shrouds redone using the graphic from the 650 bipolar's shroud...see below (the logo is just WAY cool). BTW, the only 650 bipolar's I've ever seen for sale didn't have the shroud.


----------



## david in germany

Anyone know the difference between the pre HD and the HD punch 30? I think I have a pre HD but when I got it it had a scratched sticker and I swapped an HD sticker. I need to pull it out tonight to look.


----------



## bamelanc

david in germany said:


> Anyone know the difference between the pre HD and the HD punch 30? I think I have a pre HD but when I got it it had a scratched sticker and I swapped an HD sticker. I need to pull it out tonight to look.


I have a Punch 30 and it has a molex speaker plug and some kind of adapter for power/ground/rem. It reminds me of the way HDs are built, but obviously isn't HD. I haven't popped it open yet to verify though. Might be a sticker swap...been known to happen! I don't have 30HD yet, so I can't compare.


----------



## david in germany

Mine is the same as yours.


----------



## david in germany

By the way, mine benched 50w at 4 ohm. Nice solid peanut!


----------



## bamelanc

Maybe you have a 45 with a 30 sticker on it. HaHa.


----------



## Chuck

What are the "25 to Life" amps I've seen mentioned around here? I thought they were some kind of anniversary re-release of the old school designs, but then I see 150 watt 25tL amps with certifications from RF that they're pushing over 500watts. Whats the story?


----------



## Doc ProMos

Here's my new PR-235... more pics in the Old School...


----------



## Doc ProMos

BigD.... here's your rack.... just waiting for some BigD love.... 










.... you know what I mean.... ?


----------



## Prime mova

^ come on Doc you said the other Fosgate PR235 was the last one...you don't sit still long enough for the MOS to settle, give us rf collectors a chance!


----------



## david in germany

bamelanc said:


> Maybe you have a 45 with a 30 sticker on it. HaHa.


Oops that was 4 ohm mono not x2 


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


----------



## Doc ProMos

Prime mova said:


> ^ come on Doc you said the other Fosgate PR235 was the last one...you don't sit still long enough for the MOS to settle, give us rf collectors a chance!


thats mostly stuff from last month... no more.... (unless its really special)...keith


----------



## alcoholicadema

Hey guys, new here.. got something maybe worth a look? I'm not heavy into collecting, but I got these from my step brother a couple years back, have kept them stored but haven't gotten rid of them for some reason, this little 2 channel is way more than rated... all i can really say. haven't made an enclosure for the 8's yet, i have 2 of them.



















lemme know if they worth a damn collection wise


----------



## alcoholicadema

opps, punch line only.. smh posted my power 550x


----------



## bamelanc

Collection wise, it's all about what you think is valuable. 40i without end caps, not so much, but you never know.


----------



## alcoholicadema

Either way I love this little bugger and have no plans on letting go of'm.
It did an amazing job powering my Tool Chest at work for the longest time! The power from this '20x2' is just down right impressive. I wish I had a chance to experience all these wonderful old fosgate products you guys all have, I bet they are truly pieces of work!


----------



## bamelanc

Definitely a strong amp for its size/rating.


----------



## ChrisB

Chuck said:


> What are the "25 to Life" amps I've seen mentioned around here? I thought they were some kind of anniversary re-release of the old school designs, but then I see 150 watt 25tL amps with certifications from RF that they're pushing over 500watts. Whats the story?


This was the power section from the birthsheet on one of three that some others and myself purchased:










Rockford Fosgate re-released them to look like the original models, and unfortunately, the 25 to Life series sort of flopped. I also ran a 25 to Life Power 1000 for a short period of time, but it was just too dang big to keep out of the way of anything.


----------



## Chuck

I guess they did flop. I see people listing them for sale on eBay, yelling about how rare and overpowered they are, yet they don't go for much at all. I think the RF brand has been diluted by their foray into Circuit City and their entry level amps. What are those called? Prime?


----------



## bamelanc

Yeah, for only being a few thousand made, they sure are everywhere. Harder to get a deal on the 1000. I would like to find one of those NIB...just not for 900 dollars. Keep them NIB for another 15 or 20 years and they might do OK.


----------



## Prime mova

^ IMO electric cars in 10-15 years won't allow the use of old inefficient amps?


----------



## Prime mova

Chuck said:


> I guess they did flop. I see people listing them for sale on eBay, yelling about how rare and overpowered they are, yet they don't go for much at all. I think the RF brand has been diluted by their foray into Circuit City and their entry level amps. What are those called? Prime?


 your just spoilt for choice


----------



## Chuck

:laugh:

Nah, its just that I have a hard time taking their new stuff seriously when I have a Power 650 Mosfet waiting for me to find a vehicle worthy of it.


----------



## david in germany

Chuck said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Nah, its just that I have a hard time taking their new stuff seriously when I have a Power 650 Mosfet waiting for me to find a vehicle worthy of it.


Only a Power 650? You need to work on your collection!


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


----------



## bamelanc

I pulled the shroud off my Power 1000C and the board says PC-1000 REV C. I know what it means, but, I guess what I'm saying is, what does it mean? How many revisions were there and I wonder if it can be attributed to a specific year?


----------



## Turtl3Sh3ll

During the Punch; X2/DSM/ix/trans ana days (same heatsink design), what were the models in each?


----------



## bamelanc

DSM - 40, 60, 100, 200, 4040, 4080
DSM i - 40, 60, 100, 200, 4020, 4040, 4080
DSM ix- 40, 60 100, 200, 4020, 4040, 4080
Trans Ana x2- 40, 60, 100, 200, 160x4, 240x4, 400x4 

Or something like that...


----------



## bigdwiz

Noticed these the other night on eBay...seller was asking $149/ea and had 2 of them. They didn't look legit to me, so I didn't bite, but the next day I found out my RF collector friend in RI bought them both...

Fosgate Very Rare Old School Car Amplifier | eBay

I grabbed some screen shots so people could see these after the eBay listing expires.

*Fosgate "Mega" 50x2*...look legit to you?


----------



## bigdwiz

> Fosgate
> Very Rare
> Old School Car Amplifier
> I found these two amps at a local garage sale in there factory boxes and they look like they have never been installed.
> I'm not sure if they are Jim Fosgate units so is up to you to find out. They "may" have been the very first ones he ever built.
> Each amp only supports hi level speaker connections inputs. No low level RCA jacks.
> I will test each one once sold and before shipping.


If he hooked these up using the traditional +12v for turn on, he may have fried the amps (if they are indeed genuine early Fosgate amps). The early Fosgate amps; PR7000, PR235, PR250, etc. switched on from current sensing (load sense) on the red remote wire, not +12v like modern amps


----------



## Prime mova

^^ hope your bro hasn't done his cash...it wasn't fingaz by any chance?


----------



## bigdwiz

Yeah, it was Mike, aka Fingaz22. He sent me a txt when he bought them also told me he would let me know when he got them in his hands. If they were 1/2 of the asking price, I may have bought one just for giggles...but $150 is too much for curiosity


----------



## Prime mova

Always wanted a collection like Mike's he often had awesome pics on the rf forum and he was always lusting after a minty 650 w/4" fan did he end up getting one? Also I want to know how his build w/the 18" pro subs ended up?


----------



## bigdwiz

I think he has at least one of every FG/RF amp from 1973 up to 1991. He has many duplicates, but doesn't really want to let any go...I've tried

Yes, he has at least one 4" fan 650..one more than I have


----------



## Doc ProMos

I saw those amps when they were listed and they were on there for 12-18 hrs.... The box said Fosgate Conoga Park and I searched for any relationship to Fosgate and Conoga Park Ca and found nothing... except that there is a Fosgate Law Firm (Family Law I think) in Conoga Park.... which almost made me pull the trigger to buy..: but I found nothing in any Small biographies that put him there.... so I didn't buy them... but Mega and Dyna are 2 different models from what I could gather.... Keith


----------



## Prime mova

^^ It would be awesome if he could chime in w/the install pics of that massive build he was doing, never seen how he finished it before the rf forum became defunct...


----------



## bigdwiz

Prime mova said:


> ^^ It would be awesome if he could chime in w/the install pics of that massive build he was doing, never seen how he finished it before the rf forum became defunct...


I'll ask him to join in. Last I heard, he was still searching for a SPP-18 or two to finish his install. I still can't believe the Vintage RF forum is gone...so much good info there, now inaccessible!


----------



## bamelanc

Maybe RF saw it as a threat. The more time you spend discussing lineage and how to find old school RF amps, the less time you spend trying to buy new school stuff. Just a theory. Personally, any attention to any RF product is good attention.


----------



## bigdwiz

bamelanc said:


> Maybe RF saw it as a threat. The more time you spend discussing lineage and how to find old school RF amps, the less time you spend trying to buy new school stuff. Just a theory. Personally, any attention to any RF product is good attention.


I think it was more the fact there were only a handful of people using the forums and they kept having problems with the software crashing. Your point could have had something to do with it as well...:thumbsup:


----------



## Prime mova

bigdwiz said:


> I'll ask him to join in. Last I heard, he was still searching for a SPP-18 or two to finish his install...


The link below may help Mike out or you could be interested, it still says that the sale is active... Anyway there's a phone number at the bottom of the description could be worth a call.

http://sell.bizrice.com/selling-lea...-Four-18-inch-Pro-Series-Woofers.html#details










For future reference, what's in the pic...

"...[for an] extreme system. The system consists of a Power 1000 Amp, Four 18 inch Pro Series Woofers, PA-1, OEQ-1, XV-2 assorted mid-range and tweeter speakers, extra 4 gauge power cables, test equipment and NACA Competition training documentation. All equipment was purchased new and is in original packaging, with all manuals, installation hardware and cables. All of the equipment has never been used, except for 2 of the 18 inch woofers, and has been sitting in my closet since purchased. I hand picked this specific Power 1000 Amp while employed at Rockford Fosgate. I chose this specific Power 1000 amp for its added power and stability at 1 ohm. The Power 1000 is a 4 channel amp but can be bridged and supports 2, 3 or 4 channel configurations. The 18 inch woofers are from the Pro Series. They provide 159 ounce extra strong magnets and 3 inch voice coils for extra thumping power. The voice coils also incorporate Damping Rings to protect the speaker from over excursion. Each 18 inch woofers handles 200 Watts and has a 95.4 dB sensitivity rating. The Rockford Fosgate OEQ-1 Octave Equalizer is the precision answer for those large unpredictable response problems that hamper most speaker installations. Setup at the time of installation and this extremely quiet and highly flexible octave equalizer will expand and focus the full potential of the audio system to give a quality of sound reproduction you never dreamed possible. Features Nine-band high "Q" filter system. + or - 9dB control range for each frequency. + or - 1/2 octave frequency control, each frequency. Greater than a 90 dB signal to noise ratio. The Rockford Fosgate XV-2 Active Crossover provides proper direction of frequency ranges to multi channel amplifiers. It assures that every woofer, mid range and tweeter plays in the proper frequency range to maximize performance. Infinitely adjustable frequency modules. Low noise circuitry. High load driving capacity, up to 10 amplifiers. The Rockford Fosgate PA-1 PreAmp Equalizer is a self powered preamp/equalizer with individual controls for adjustment of bass, mid range and treble. Switchable input for tape or CD to accommodate multiple sources. Front to rear fading along with non fading sub woofer output..."


----------



## bamelanc

Holy Sh*t. Do you have to buy the whole set up? BNIB Power 1000?


----------



## bigdwiz

Where is that stuff located? I don't recognize the phone number nomenclature?


----------



## Prime mova

bigdwiz said:


> Where is that stuff located? I don't recognize the phone number nomenclature?


Bamelanc & BigD I only by chance found this listing months ago looking for some other info and when you mentioned Mike wanting pro 18 subs it reminded me. I'd say it's an UK phone number by the looks of it.


----------



## bamelanc

3 Hall Lane, Chingford, London. It's 2:11 am in London right now. The Grecu Company.


----------



## bamelanc

Dereck, do you have to take special precautions when connecting power to the Punch 40/100 like you do to the pre-rockford amps?


----------



## bamelanc

Did anyone see this hit eBay? I never saw it. Need to update my searches to include fosgate equipment I suppose...

NIB PR-2100 with EQ


----------



## Doc ProMos

I almost had it when it started... I think BigD told me he hadn't seen a 2100 on eBay in 5 years... then I got one and that one came up a few weeks later... the one I bought the guy listed and I made him an offer w/i 5 min and he accepted... tried on the NIB but it was to late, it had bids...


----------



## bigdwiz

bamelanc said:


> Dereck, do you have to take special precautions when connecting power to the Punch 40/100 like you do to the pre-rockford amps?


No, the slider Punch amps 40/100 connect as usual with +12v for the turn on lead


----------



## bigdwiz

bamelanc said:


> Did anyone see this hit eBay? I never saw it. Need to update my searches to include fosgate equipment I suppose...
> 
> NIB PR-2100 with EQ


Yeah, Doc and I got up w/ this dude and tried to tell him his reserve of $350 was WAY too high. I honestly thought it would sell for around $300 and was SHOCKED to see it go so high. I know it's rare and all, but not worth $500+ to me


----------



## bamelanc

bigdwiz said:


> Yeah, Doc and I got up w/ this dude and tried to tell him his reserve of $350 was WAY too high. I honestly thought it would sell for around $300 and was SHOCKED to see it go so high. I know it's rare and all, but not worth $500+ to me


Did you see the pre amp on that thing? Never seen one before. 500...maybe? That's the problem with old school...really, really old school. Things you only see a couple times every couple of years, hard to set a market price on those things. That particular item could be a centerpiece to a collection. 35 year old BNIB... Personally, I may not have won that auction, but I would have given it a shot. I think 500 is a lot, but then again, BNIB, I dunno. May not see that again for a very long time...if ever.


----------



## bamelanc

Odd listing. Regular Power 1000, but with Terminator shroud, but no LEDs. Notice the screws for the LED panel. I don't think they're supposed to be slot screws, but button cap screws...non galvanized or something like that.

Power 1000 "Terminator Edition"


----------



## Tin_Ears

It amazes me how much some of this old school car audio is worth these days.

After recently reading about the old Fosgate and Linear Power amps selling so high I dug out an old PR-2100 with matching preamp and a LP 5002IQ that have been stored in boxes for years. I might keep the LP but will be selling the Fosgate pieces soon. I need to bench test them first though.


----------



## Doc ProMos

I had the opportunity to speak with fingaz22 today.... I must say he's a cool dude that's loaded with Fosgate info... we chatted for awhile and he's definitely a great source for info.... He was telling me that there is a Type 1 and a Type 2 PR-235 of which I had no idea... the only type 1 and type 2 I know about is diabetes... anyways I wanted to give him props for being a cool guy.... 
Keith


----------



## david in germany

Doc ProMos said:


> I had the opportunity to speak with fingaz22 today.... I must say he's a cool dude that's loaded with Fosgate info... we chatted for awhile and he's definitely a great source for info.... He was telling me that there is a Type 1 and a Type 2 PR-235 of which I had no idea... the only type 1 and type 2 I know about is diabetes... anyways I wanted to give him props for being a cool guy....
> Keith


Yes, he really is a top notch guy!


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


----------



## bamelanc

Top notch eBay packing job here.

Yes, that is three amps separated by two pieces of styrofoam wrapped in packing tape...dropped in a box of peanuts...2/3rds full.


----------



## david in germany

Did they make it ok?


----------



## bamelanc

david in germany said:


> Did they make it ok?


Yes, the Punch 100 has issues, but I don't think the packing hurt it, I have to send it out. The 45's didn't have any issues fortunately. it's not like any of them were mint. Just the principle of it all. I OVER pack...send it out like I would want it done if it were mine.


----------



## david in germany

I sent out a pair of Punch 40i to a guy one that said he wouldn't have worried if US postal would have dropped the package off of a roof after he saw how I packed them. 
2 rolls of bubble wrap, crushed cardboard boxes outside of that and then that inside of another box and here was no way they could shift inside any of he layers.


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


----------



## Doc ProMos

bamelanc, I feel your pain... i heard the clinking on the bottom so naturally that's how I opened it...although not RF, the problem is the same


----------



## bamelanc

Doc ProMos said:


> bamelanc, I feel your pain... i heard the clinking on the bottom so naturally that's how I opened it...although not RF, the problem is the same


People just don't understand. Once I send them money, that is now MY amplifier. Pack it like so. We should have a contest of who's received the worst packing job from a seller.

I just got through packing two amps that don't have buyers yet. Both double bubble wrapped with packing paper and packing peanuts. You couldn't squeeze another packing peanut in there. Box is taped with the threaded packing tape (love that stuff) and will be wrapped in heavy duty brown paper.

-Billy


----------



## bigdwiz

I'll start another topic as I think this is an important subject...


----------



## bamelanc

bigdwiz said:


> I'll start another topic as I think this is an important subject...


True, we need to stay on topic. My bad.


----------



## Doc ProMos

Good idea... thanx BigD


----------



## alcoholicadema

ROCKFORD FOSGATE PUNCH MATCH IMPENDANCE TRANS RP7308 | eBay


----------



## bigdwiz

A short history lesson, then a video showing off a truly historical Fosgate find...

Info below taken from a RF historical document:

_*1970s: Reinventing the Market for Car Audio*

The history of the Rockford Corporation can be traced to Fosgate Electronics, a specialty amplifier manufacturer founded by Jim Fosgate, the inventor of the company's first powerful amplifiers. While experimenting with audio technology, Fosgate owned and operated a small company called *Pro-Line*, in Salt Lake City, which produced radio transmitters and receivers for remote control model airplanes. In his spare time, he worked on his "*Frequency Energizer*," *a circuit that adjusted for loss of high- and low-end audio frequencies as they channeled through to the speakers*. Fred Hulan, owner of Audio Mart in Kansas City, encouraged Fosgate, providing him with information obtained in his own work. At the time, Hulan installed state-of-the-art audio equipment, called the Acoust-A-Voice, in homes and theaters. Hulan reported to Fosgate the inefficiencies he found in the system, and Fosgate applied his Frequency Energizer circuit to compensate for loss of high and low tones during sound amplification.

After many late night sessions of experimentation, Fosgate and some audio enthusiast friends developed Fosgate's first audio product for the consumer market. The PR-7000 amplifier integrated the *Frequency Energizer* into a 30-watt car amplifier using a tape loop. Fosgate demonstrated his amplifier at the Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago in 1973, attaching a $300 price tag. Initially, it proved to be an impossible task to find buyers for such an expensive piece of equipment, especially one for which no source unit with appropriate audio outputs existed.

Then, innovations by Fosgate Electronics, particularly that of the Punch Equalization circuit, introduced a level of car audio quality previously unknown, stimulating the market for high-performance car audio equipment which sold through specialty audio retailers. The company marketed its products under the Punch and Punch POWER brands, the latter being the top-of-the-line audio equipment.

By the late 1970s Fosgate Electronics had developed a base of retailer customers, and Jim Fosgate let the company manage itself while he began experimenting with surround sound technology. However, financial difficulties arose at the company that ultimately resulted in its producing lower quality equipment. Fosgate looked for someone to buy the company so that he would be free to concentrate on new inventions. In 1980 a venture capital company, Camelback Capital Corp., purchased Fosgate Electronics, renaming it Rockford Corporation for the street where the company had been located for almost a decade. At this time the company employed 25 people and recorded just under $1 million in annual sales. In 1982 Robert Pothier, of Camelback Capital, became president of Rockford Corporation._



See the 1973 Fosgate "Frequency Energizer" in 1080P High-Def Video

or embedded below:


----------



## Chuck

Nice finds, D. I don't suppose you have a Fosgate Gavotte mobile surround processor hiding in your collection...


----------



## bigdwiz

Chuck said:


> Nice finds, D. I don't suppose you have a Fosgate Gavotte mobile surround processor hiding in your collection...


I don't have one of those, actually passed on one a few years ago. Like the rest of my missing components, I'll find them with time. The Gavotte is surely a historical piece as well and proof that Jim Fosgate's real passion was (is?) home audio and surround sound. I'm just not sure how much sense surround sound makes in a car, but to each his own


----------



## Doc ProMos

They aren't that hard to find... I've seen 3 for sale in the last few months...


----------



## bigdwiz

Doc ProMos said:


> They aren't that hard to find... I've seen 3 for sale in the last few months...


See, shows you how hard I'm looking for one of those :laugh:


----------



## Tin_Ears

Hah!! I had one those 30+ years ago... never could figure out its real purpose. Now I know. Too bad I junked it so long ago. It might be worth something today.


----------



## bigdwiz

_Also posted this in the Old School Showoff thread, but just had to post it here as well as it fits the topic..._


*1973 Fosgate "Powerpunch" PR7000*...Fosgate's first car amplifier! The first amp to incorporate the "punch EQ" circuit from the Frequency Energizer I've shown before.

Thanks to DocProMOS, I finally have one of these! 












*Notice HIGH level inputs are RCA while LOW level are via terminals...*











*Amp is smaller than I thought it would be...notice comparison in size to the CD*


----------



## Prime mova

These pics are from an evilbay listing, brand new in box Power 1000 MOSFET. I've never seen one in the box like this...


















































there are specs and info on the listing...See here


----------



## bigdwiz

^^ A rare find indeed...I contacted the seller within minutes of it being posted and made an offer...and was shot down!  I didn't expect he would accept, but doesn't hurt to ask, right? This is a fingaz22 amp here, WAY out of my acceptable price range for a car amplifier.


----------



## bigdwiz

Again, not trying to double post here, but this seems on topic here:

These are gut pics TomTomJr showed me of his PR7000, so thanks Tom 

*1973 Fosgate PR7000 - Fosgate's First Car Audio Amplifier*

(BTW, my serial number is higher than Tom's PR7000, yet his has the "4-16ohm input" on the back and mine does not have this? Also, some of the other silk screening is different. Anyone else have another PR7000 we can compare?)

*TomTomJr's PR7000*




















*BigD's PR7000*


----------



## bamelanc

It is his amp? Or it is an amp in the price range he would offer one for? I've been following it, it's going to go for a lot of money.


----------



## bigdwiz

*Demo video coming Sunday 9/10 at 9PM EST*...showing off both "Frequency Energizers" :thumbsup:

(not the PR7000 - I didn't get this until a few days ago. I will do an overview video one day very soon)


----------



## Prime mova

bigdwiz said:


> ^^ A rare find indeed...I contacted the seller within minutes of it being posted and made an offer...and was shot down!  I didn't expect he would accept, but doesn't hurt to ask, right? This is a fingaz22 amp here, WAY out of my acceptable price range for a car amplifier.


 Nah, it doesn't hurt to ask. I thought you would have got up w/this guy  it'll be interesting to see how high it will go...

I'm sure your seen this one but I would be interested in your opinion, this dude lists his amp as 1/2 ohm stable after a rebuild and also comments on there being 3 different series of Power 1000's his being the B series. Any thoughts ?

Old Skool Fosgate Power 1000 - $1500 (Roanoke)
________________________________________
Date: 2012-08-13, 3:13PM EDT
[email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?] 
________________________________________

"This is the monster from the car audio golden years. This Amp has been well cared for by an installer and electronics technician since 91. This is a B series, the second generation or build of the 1000's. The one before they became known as the "Terminator". She has been rebuilt from end to end with new bi-polar MOSFETS and period correct parts. The ratings on the amp are 250x4 at 4 ohms Stable to 1/2 ohm after rebuild. This amp will destroy any speaker. output now is 1000x2 at 1/2 ohm. These configurations are taken straight from the original owners manual... 

...They do not make amps like this any more, she was completely hand built when new, then rebuilt with a better 5 inch fan and electronics by me. She was hardcore before, now she's bullet proof. The owners manual states twice, "the Power 1000 MOSFET is capable of destroying any speaker" Its true, email me for a list of 2k watt plus 12's and 15's I have locked to the point of being able to stand on them! This Amp has sold on Ebay for 3k plus. Its a rare piece being only 5000 were made total in the B series. Extremely collectible! Extremely Devastating."


----------



## bigdwiz

bamelanc said:


> It is his amp? Or it is an amp in the price range he would offer one for? I've been following it, it's going to go for a lot of money.


No, not his yet, but I wouldn't doubt it if he grabs it. It's already over $1600, IMHO overpriced. It is not perfect, you can see a nice sized scratch on the bottom. Yes, finding one unused in the box is rare, and it will be interesting to see what it goes for! May tempt me to sell my 1000c Terminator...NOT!


----------



## bamelanc

5000...that's actually a lot.


----------



## bamelanc

bigdwiz said:


> No, not his yet, but I wouldn't doubt it if he grabs it. It's already over $1600, IMHO overpriced. It is not perfect, you can see a nice sized scratch on the bottom. Yes, finding one unused in the box is rare, and it will be interesting to see what it goes for! May tempt me to sell my 1000c Terminator...NOT!


I will sell off my whole collection before I sell my Terminator. Unless the right price comes along, but I doubt anyone will want to spend kind of money.


----------



## bigdwiz

Prime mova said:


> Na, it doesn't hurt to ask. I thought you would have got up w/this guy  it'll be interesting to see how high it will go...
> 
> I'm sure your seen this one but I would be interested in your opinion, this dude lists his amp as 1/2 ohm stable after a rebuild and also comments on there being 3 different series of Power 1000's his being the B series. Any thoughts ?
> 
> Old Skool Fosgate Power 1000 - $1500 (Roanoke)
> ________________________________________
> Date: 2012-08-13, 3:13PM EDT
> [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
> ________________________________________
> 
> "This is the monster from the car audio golden years. This Amp has been well cared for by an installer and electronics technician since 91. This is a B series, the second generation or build of the 1000's. The one before they became known as the "Terminator". She has been rebuilt from end to end with new bi-polar MOSFETS and period correct parts. The ratings on the amp are 250x4 at 4 ohms Stable to 1/2 ohm after rebuild. This amp will destroy any speaker. output now is 1000x2 at 1/2 ohm. These configurations are taken straight from the original owners manual...
> 
> ...They do not make amps like this any more, she was completely hand built when new, then rebuilt with a better 5 inch fan and electronics by me. She was hardcore before, now she's bullet proof. The owners manual states twice, "the Power 1000 MOSFET is capable of destroying any speaker" Its true, email me for a list of 2k watt plus 12's and 15's I have locked to the point of being able to stand on them! This Amp has sold on Ebay for 3k plus. Its a rare piece being only 5000 were made total in the B series. Extremely collectible! Extremely Devastating."



BS, pure BS :icon_bs:

Actually most is accurate except the 250x4 at 4 ohms and 1/2 ohm stable. I just had my Terminator rebuilt by Freeman's and it benched 190.4w x 4 at 4ohms. I'd have to see the guts of this guy's amp, may just contact him to see if he'll send me pics. 

Also, it never ceases to amaze me how someone will ask $1500 for a car amplifier and think it will sell without pictures 

Old Skool Fosgate Power 1000


----------



## Doc ProMos

over $1600, I'll sell mine for about half that... it's not new in the box but it doesn't have the scratch either.... hell, I'll sell my 1000 and my 650 for less than $1600.... now that I think about it, I'll sell my 1000, 650 and my 300 for $1600....


----------



## Prime mova

^^ It's the cardboard box that adds sooo much to the auction price. Your amps you posted earlier look real neat and one owner to boot, maybe just screen print some boxes for them :shrug:


----------



## Prime mova

Post #215 --- update, bidding has TAKEN a GFC like crash since they added these comments;

On Sep-08-12 at 13:38:31 PDT, seller added the following information:
All bidders with a positive feedback score under 20 will be cancelled!


----------



## bamelanc

Prime mova said:


> Post #215 --- update, bidding has TAKEN a GFC like crash since they added these comments;
> 
> On Sep-08-12 at 13:38:31 PDT, seller added the following information:
> All bidders with a positive feedback score under 20 will be cancelled!


That's lame. They just cost themselves 400 dollars right off the top.

I wouldn't mind having the black Power 1000 though. Sell my chrome to make up some difference and get this one.


----------



## Prime mova

bamelanc said:


> I wouldn't mind having the black Power 1000 though. Sell my chrome to make up some difference and get this one.


 Billy, your chrome is the upgrade option and for competition use.


----------



## bamelanc

I simply have a chrome Power 1000C. I also have a Terminator Edition. Since I have the Terminator, I would sell the chrome 1000C. Not to mention a Power 1000C like that on eBay would be an upgrade and it would fit in to my plans to have an all NIB collection of RF.


----------



## Prime mova

^^ the drop in price sure makes that amp look sweeter...


----------



## david in germany

I put a brand new white shroud on my power 1k by have had a rough time finding paint to match the caboose to the rest of it. I might need to take it to a buddy who has a body shop to match the white.


----------



## Prime mova

Just continuing w/the power 1000 MOSFET talk, I read that the dual ground wires coming out from the amp were due to the said power 1000 being two 500 watt amps. True/false?


----------



## david in germany

Prime mova said:


> Just continuing w/the power 1000 MOSFET talk, I read that the dual ground wires coming out from the amp were due to the said power 1000 being two 500 watt amps. True/false?


As far as I know, false. 
It was to reduce ground loops. 

Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


----------



## bigdwiz

Mike (aka "fingaz22") wanted me to let you guys know he's thinning his collection and is wanting to sell off some of his massive Fosgate and RF stash. He has multiples of almost every amp up from 1973-1992. I don't feel comfortable posting his email address here, but send me a PM if you are interested and I'll give you his email address. He told me he would prefer to sell them in lots, but you can ask him if you have specific amps in mind.


----------



## david in germany

bigdwiz said:


> Mike (aka "fingaz22") wanted me to let you guys know he's thinning his collection and is wanting to sell off some of his massive Fosgate and RF stash. He has multiples of almost every amp up from 1973-1992. I don't feel comfortable posting his email address here, but send me a PM if you are interested and I'll give you his email address. He told me he would prefer to sell them in lots, but you can ask him if you have specific amps in mind.


Please ask him to log in here, I miss him..


Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


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## Doc ProMos

Thought I would resurrect this thread... I got 2 big boxes from Fingazz today and thought I would share 2 pieces before I sell them... the rest of the boxes I got from him I'm keeping and will let y'all see soon enough


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## Doc ProMos

Just picked up a second Power 360... here are the pair...


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## Prime mova

^^ got two Eleanor's there Keith...I've noticed you do like things in pairs hehe


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## Randyman...

Prime mova said:


> Just continuing w/the power 1000 MOSFET talk, I read that the dual ground wires coming out from the amp were due to the said power 1000 being two 500 watt amps. True/false?





david in germany said:


> As far as I know, false.
> It was to reduce ground loops.
> 
> Posted from Imperial walker 17a via planetary datcom server


Confirmed. The dual ground wires are paralleled inside the amp.

As you were...


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## Doc ProMos

Prime mova said:


> ^^ got two Eleanor's there Keith...I've noticed you do like things in pairs hehe


Not my Eleanor, my Eleanor is the 2500f1, but the Power 360 intrigues me for some reason... I decided a while back I was going to collect some RF stuff, but only the stuff that interest me--


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## Prime mova

Doc ProMos said:


> Not my Eleanor, my Eleanor is the 2500f1, but the Power 360 intrigues me for some reason... I decided a while back I was going to collect some RF stuff, but only the stuff that interest me--


"Memphis" aka Doc ProMos 
---List---
Last - sweet 2500f1 mere mortals can only dream. 

Any word on the rf banner ?


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## Doc ProMos

I got the banner... thing is huge... 
I love Memphis and I love
the nickname --- from now on I'm gonna sign Memphis at the end of my post....lol
.... Memphis


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## fingaz22

hey guys looks like it's been a year since last post but saw my name being said a few times and had to chime in and say hi! im never on this forum but saw it on derecks fb "oldschoool stereo" if you guy see this look me up on fb or his group! michael schultz! love to hear from everybody


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## david in germany

fingaz22 said:


> hey guys looks like it's been a year since last post but saw my name being said a few times and had to chime in and say hi! im never on this forum but saw it on derecks fb "oldschoool stereo" if you guy see this look me up on fb or his group! michael schultz! love to hear from everybody


Good to see you here brother! Wish you would hang around a bit!
David


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## soundboy

Hi, will this RF 500M amp run great on RFR-2215 subwoofer? 

Black color with red/white script?

Or best to look other RF modell? Have as thinking about the modell from 1997 : 

Power 800a2
Power 1100a2

But looks as dont run in 1ohm load, only 2ohm.


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## milburyl

Just thought I'd share some pics of the Rockford equipment I've collected over the last couple years. Not as spectacular or rare as others, but it's still nice to me.


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## milburyl

And a few more pics.


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## milburyl

And a few more.....


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## HardCoreDore

milburyl said:


> And a few more.....


This series were the last Punch amps to really "PUNCH". I personally never owned one of these but I sold them for Best Buy when I was about 21 and still in college. Man that was a **** job! I enjoyed the work obviously but I think I may have been making minimum wage or very close to it. 

I don't remember the series after the amps pictured above, but I do remember that they were markedly less "musical" sounding. They still made rated power but didn't have that extra "umph" or transient response. 

The best Punch IMHO are the first DSM's the Punch DSM and the Punch DSMix. I read somewhere in this thread that the TransAna Circuitry made them quieter. I don't know if that's true but I know the Punch 100ix and Punch 4080ix I had were whisper quiet with ultra low distortion. 

The only amps I've ever owned that were the best of both worlds. SQ and SPL in one package. 

The biggest difference between the first few series and the one's pictured above are how "under-rated" they were. My punch 4080's birthsheet had it making 116 wpc at 2 ohms. It was rated at 60 wpc. My punch 100's birth sheet made close to 200 wpc at 2 ohms stereo and 420 wpc at 4 ohms bridged. Not bad for an amp rated at 50 x 2. 

I can't speak for how under-rated the pre DSM series were, but I've heard stories that they were VERY under rated. 

Man I miss the good ole' days.


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## bigdwiz

I recently tested a Power 650 Mosfet (4" fan model) and the results video will be online in the next few days...


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## vwguy383

Ok guys brining this thread back from the dead with a new question. I have been looking at some OS rockford fosgate amps and may have a deceit deal on a grind/black bell shaped punch 360aii. I was looking for the manual to check out the specs and on the website it said
Punch 360a2
Punch 360aii best buy

Was there a difference between the two of them? Did best buy sell a lesser quality punch series? I know some businesses out there will do that just to have a cheaper price but then you get a cheaper product.

I worked at an ACE hardware one winter and we sold DeWalt tools. People would always come in and try to get us the price match Menards (big box) DeWalt prices and we would teel them to check the model numbers because they weren't the same.

Thanks
Justin


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## metanium

vwguy383 said:


> Ok guys brining this thread back from the dead with a new question. I have been looking at some OS rockford fosgate amps and may have a deceit deal on a grind/black bell shaped punch 360aii. I was looking for the manual to check out the specs and on the website it said
> Punch 360a2
> Punch 360aii best buy
> 
> Was there a difference between the two of them? Did best buy sell a lesser quality punch series? I know some businesses out there will do that just to have a cheaper price but then you get a cheaper product.
> 
> I worked at an ACE hardware one winter and we sold DeWalt tools. People would always come in and try to get us the price match Menards (big box) DeWalt prices and we would teel them to check the model numbers because they weren't the same.
> 
> Thanks
> Justin


I’m pretty sure the Best Buy models were the exact same, except for the naming distinction. It allowed them to be sold for different prices than the standard brick & mortar stores, and not have to price match.


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## HardCoreDore

vwguy383 said:


> Ok guys brining this thread back from the dead with a new question. I have been looking at some OS rockford fosgate amps and may have a deceit deal on a grind/black bell shaped punch 360aii. I was looking for the manual to check out the specs and on the website it said
> Punch 360a2
> Punch 360aii best buy
> 
> Was there a difference between the two of them? Did best buy sell a lesser quality punch series? I know some businesses out there will do that just to have a cheaper price but then you get a cheaper product.
> 
> I worked at an ACE hardware one winter and we sold DeWalt tools. People would always come in and try to get us the price match Menards (big box) DeWalt prices and we would teel them to check the model numbers because they weren't the same.
> 
> Thanks
> Justin


They were still making the amps in the US at that point. If the specs are the same I'd say the internals are the exact same. I seriously doubt RF would have sullied their reputation selling an inferior product in retail stores. (A few years afterwards, they may have done such a thing; but not in '99)

The model # difference was most likely just to designate where the amp was sold for future warranty work, marketing, etc... IIRC, that was the first model year RF was sold in Best Buy stores. They may have changed the model #s on all the Punch amps they sold at "Worst Buy". 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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