# How Many Tweeters



## wanderer1 (Dec 22, 2014)

I got 4 12" subs, 8 mids. Planning on 8 tweeters, whatcha think? to many, not enough, just right? Be 1 in each door(4 doors) 1 in factory A pillar pod. and 1 facing windshield. Brings up another question, as high as I can mount the ones facing windshield or? Thanks


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## miniSQ (Aug 4, 2009)

Most people struggle with 5 or 6 drivers in their car to make it sound great. You have one hell of a road ahead of you with 20.

yes 8 tweeters is way to many...can you diagram your system for us. Especially what mids you are using, what power they are getting, what freq's they are playing and how you processing the sound.


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## wanderer1 (Dec 22, 2014)

cant do that yet. not sure if im gonna use the AC DQ-61 or the ARC DXE. depends on if one sells. all drivers are CDT all power is ARC. for now I have a lot of different drivers to choose from. front doors probably get a pair of EU-6s or CL-6M and an HD-2. factory pods will get either TW-25s or DRT 26 with silk domes. Facing windshield will be TW-25. Rear doors will only have HD-2s. Woofers are QEX-1220. OP was misleading as I count the HD- as a mid and a tweeter so I probably should have worded it differently, sorry. Looking at it right now counting the woofers should be 20 drivers.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

wanderer1 said:


> I got 4 12" subs, 8 mids. Planning on 8 tweeters, whatcha think? to many, not enough, just right? Be 1 in each door(4 doors) 1 in factory A pillar pod. and 1 facing windshield. Brings up another question, as high as I can mount the ones facing windshield or? Thanks


I think you should downscale a little,, how about two 4 ohm 12's, four 8 ohm mids and four 8 ohm tweeters..
that's 5 channels unless you go passive
or

two 4ohm tweeters, two 4ohm mids, two 4ohm woofers and two 4ohm subs..
that's 7 channels unless you go passive

What are you putting this in ?


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## wanderer1 (Dec 22, 2014)

Too late to down size. Believe it or not I already eliminated 6 drivers on a downsize. If I use the DXE itll be no problem controlling it all. 2012 F-350 is the vehicle. I also could go passive, I have all the CDT crossovers to do it. I gues it isn't to late. I do have 2 CDT EF-120 12's that would work awesome ported. I have a set of Morel ovations I could us on the front doors etc.


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## HiloDB1 (Feb 25, 2011)

:lurk:


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

Don't expect your plan to sound good. Some understanding of sound waves and acoustics would be very helpful. Getting that many speakers to sound good together would be a huge challenge even with the best processing available.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

it sounds like you are more interested in getting loud than competition for best sq, nothing wrong with that though many on here will disagree.

I'd recommend iliminating the tweeters in the back doors and the ones pointed at the winchield, I'd wager you can get enough spl with the cdt 2 mid/tweets and an extra set of tweets, or why not use all four of the cdt 2 mids in the front doors? I doubt your going to get away without cutting up the car anyways, might as well go nuts in the front space where you actually do your listening.


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## wanderer1 (Dec 22, 2014)

Yeah nothing wrong with loud but imperfect staging. Gonna leave HD2's in back doors cuz that's all that will be back there, crossed over at 800 hz. I think the tweeters facing windshield will sound good using the center channel of the DXE since its a summed mono L+R. I did that years ago, bout 91, with an L-Pad to control the volume of my homemade center channel. sounded good. Well I guess we will see how it goes, I think it'll be a pretty good sql system, but I could be wrong and it could be crap. How many that have replied were using mixed mono or summing channels etc. in 91? Just curious. I appreciate the input but I aint no dummy.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

So far it looks like system I don't t want to hear.


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## wanderer1 (Dec 22, 2014)

Well I'm sorry to hear that Victor. Do you have any suggestions?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

what are your goals?


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## wanderer1 (Dec 22, 2014)

Load, mediocre driver seat staging and quality sound


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

wanderer1 said:


> Load, mediocre driver seat staging and quality sound


you will only get loud with your original plan. sorry to tell ya


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## wanderer1 (Dec 22, 2014)

Well I guess I'll start with that and work from there. So I guess I have enough tweeters


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

Get horns


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## ATOMICTECH62 (Jan 24, 2009)

Tweeters are more efficient then Mids.
Even with all those Mids running,more then 2 pair of tweets is really overkill.


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## Lycancatt (Apr 11, 2010)

yep, tweeters can make a lot more sound than anything else off the same power besides horns. two pair with four pair of mids would be what I'd do personally.


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## wanderer1 (Dec 22, 2014)

Lycancatt said:


> yep, tweeters can make a lot more sound than anything else off the same power besides horns. two pair with four pair of mids would be what I'd do personally.


Kinda what Im doing with the HD2s. see your point for sure


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

1 pair of horns and one pair of efficient ten inch midbass is all you will need before it gets to " holy ****ing ****" volumes


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## wanderer1 (Dec 22, 2014)

Lol yeah probably. To use my DXE that I have for sale I need 3 more amp channels I see you have quite a bit of power. loud?


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

wanderer1 said:


> Lol yeah probably


so whats the point of 8 drivers covering each range


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

wanderer1 said:


> Lol yeah probably. To use my DXE that I have for sale I need 3 more amp channels I see you have quite a bit of power. loud?


Not probably- most definitely !


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## 1styearsi (Aug 13, 2012)

dude i did a system for a guy in a dodge ram extend cab with 3 dvc 18's,a autotek mean machine 5000,4 6 and a halfs with 2 tweeters,2 red tops and 2 yellow top optimas.
it sounded awesome and it was a real ground pounder.
the point is you don't need 8 tweeters ever....just saying.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

1styearsi said:


> dude i did a system for a guy in a dodge ram extend cab with 3 dvc 18's,a autotek mean machine 5000,4 6 and a halfs with 2 tweeters,2 red tops and 2 yellow top optimas.
> it sounded awesome and it was a real ground pounder.
> the point is you don't need 8 tweeters ever....just saying.


unless your purposely trying to make you and your passengers ears bleed :laugh:


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## wanderer1 (Dec 22, 2014)

I only planned on 4 actual tweeters. The other 4 are the wide band CDT HD-2 that play up to 20k and are a mid/tweet combo. Will be perfect for place like my back door. I get th point though and got it the first time. Most peoples opinion is it would be overkill. And Victor stay away from ARCs demo boat using the DXE and basically what im doing just by a factor of about 8


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

There is a difference between overkill and bad. Your idea isn't overkill, it's bad.


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## wanderer1 (Dec 22, 2014)

So 4 12's, 4 mid bass, 4 wide bands and 4 tweeters is "bad"? CDT sells 4 tweeters with 2 mid bass drivers. I'll try it and if I don't like it easy to change since I already looked into it and a 3" mid fits same cut out as a HD2. Or disconnect the A pillar pod TW-25. But I might like it, then what? You must have tried the same setup before. I'd say this is going no where. Thanks for the help fellas. http://content.arcaudio.com/pdfs/reviews/vehicle-reviews/arcaudio-vehicle-reviews-8.03.pdf 50 drivers and a DXE, 3 other crossovers, probably sounded like crap


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## edzyy (Aug 18, 2011)

GET

HORNS

!


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Two really good tweeters, not 8, would keep up with your plan, and deliver a much more defined stage than what you've outlined here.

Even if you're just going for SPL, keep your high frequency drivers low in count... 8 tweeters is something you'll never be able to tune, no matter what the goal...

I also agree with the idea of using horns for this, if you have the space...

Then again, I'm pretty sure I could find room for two horns more easily than I could find space for 8 tweeters...


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

yes, it most likely will be bad. do you even have any processing to handle all of it?


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

gijoe said:


> There is a difference between overkill and bad. Your idea isn't overkill, it's bad.


Short and sweet, exactly to the point. two mid bass drivers per side is overkill- more than that- just bad.
more than one high frequency driver per side is just bad regardless of the type.


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> Short and sweet, exactly to the point. two mid bass drivers per side is overkill- more than that- just bad.


I see...


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

gijoe said:


> There is a difference between overkill and bad. Your idea isn't overkill, it's bad.


This is signature worthy.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

Niebur3 said:


> This is signature worthy.


agreed.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Niebur3 said:


> This is signature worthy.


looks like you claimed it.. now ya gotta make it your sig


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

^^^^Done


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## gijoe (Mar 25, 2008)

I'm honored. If the OP wants a more educational explanation I'd be happy to provide it, but in general, I'm a fan of pithy.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

gijoe said:


> I'm honored. If the OP wants a more educational explanation I'd be happy to provide it, but in general, I'm a fan of pithy.


I`m happy to give a credit when credit is due like it is in this case. 
short version should be good enough.


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## BuickGN (May 29, 2009)

edzyy said:


> GET
> 
> HORNS
> 
> !


Best advice by a mile! Couple it with ONE pro audio 10" or 12" mid bass per side and it's tunable and probably just as loud as the current setup with far less power.

I don't like those subs either once I read the description. They state a sealed box is better than any other alignment and act as if they're the only ones to discover sealed. They talk about the suspension as a spring that changes over time when they rely on the air suspension making their subs superior to everyone else. It's scary when the manufacturer doesn't even know that the motor provides the damping.

I think the OP for his goals would be MUCH happier with a moderately good sub like a pair of ID Max 12s or better, 15s, or any number of other subs in a ported setup. It would be much louder than those 4 12s sealed and I have a feeling he would not mind a sightly higher tuning frequency than most of us for even more gain. 

I think this would be the most efficient way to go about this and it could actually be tuned and use far less power while getting louder than the current setup.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

BuickGN said:


> Best advice by a mile! Couple it with ONE pro audio 10" or 12" mid bass per side and it's tunable and probably just as loud as the current setup with far less power.
> 
> I don't like those subs either once I read the description. They state a sealed box is better than any other alignment and act as if they're the only ones to discover sealed. They talk about the suspension as a spring that changes over time when they rely on the air suspension making their subs superior to everyone else. It's scary when the manufacturer doesn't even know that the motor provides the damping.
> 
> ...


Also agreed 100%.
IMHO sealed box is for ****ty designed subs and lazy installers. or combinations of both.with rare exemption of space limitations. 
Almost any sub can sound better in ported box if implemented correctly despite what manufacturer "recommended" to minimize warranty claims.


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> Also agreed 100%.
> IMHO sealed box is for ****ty designed subs and lazy installers. or combinations of both.with rare exemption of space limitations.
> Almost any sub can sound better in ported box if implemented correctly despite what manufacturer "recommended" to minimize warranty claims.


Space limitations aren't that rare...

Ported boxes unload drastically below their tuned frequency...

Many ported boxes sound like a "one note wonder"...

The ONLY down-side to using a sealed box is that you "might" have gained 3dB SPL if you had ported it instead... At the expense of giving up MANY more cubic feet of usable space. Also, that "should've been" ported box will undoubtedly suffer one or more of the aforementioned symptoms.

Solution: I don't know how YOU see it, Victor, but I'm willing to power my way through it with a couple of sealed chambers and about 5.5 KW on sub... which delivers a smooth and accurate response, wins SQL awards, and still plays loud as **** 

How ****ty is that, Victor?

The way you generalize and compartmentalize everything... It's like you've not seen much of this world yet...

Perhaps you should put on some underwear and leave Mom's basement once in a while...


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

XSIV SPL said:


> Space limitations aren't that rare...
> 
> Ported boxes unload drastically below their tuned frequency...
> 
> ...



key word is properly,one generalizing here is you, read it one more time and think before you post. when you have space to build SQ sealed I can build better sounding ported in the same space. so why sealed?


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> key word is properly,one generalizing here is you, read it one more time and think before you post. when you have space to build SQ sealed I can build better sounding ported in the same space. so why sealed?


Can you, really?

With space constrictions and frequency response being considered, a ported box will certainly deliver higher SPL at a certain frequency, but will almost NEVER have a comparably good response curve, nor maintain good bass extension below it's tuned frequency... When we don't have room for a big ported box which has an inferior response, some of us go sealed and throw more power into it... This is also considered "properly done".

What are you trying to tell me, Victor?

Are you trying to tell me that you can't resist the urge to disagree with me?


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

********! learn to calculate proper boxes, compensating bad box design by throwing more power is easiest way, but never that box will produce better (more linear FR) with less distortion. that is basics. Almost never good response curve? ******** again unless good in your book somehow different from reference signal.restricting sub movement by air spring is bad practice acceptable in some cases. Try reading theory for starters.
That is all I`m trying to tell you. you either trying to learn or prefer to stay ignorant. that is up to you.
or and to answer your last remark, unlike you I answer questions directed at me.
I don`t have an urge to disagree with you, you are nobody to me. But I always feel the urge to disagree with ignorance.


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

Ported isn't any better than sealed just like sealed isn't any better than ported, they both have their pros and cons, why does your dog have to be bigger than his dog ?
More power does not equate to deeper bass or a flatter response, all it does it make the bass louder..
Sealed boxes are very forgiving, they can make almost any speaker sound good if the enclosure is properly sized..
Same goes a ported but a ported box will also sound good and get louder.
Throwing power at a sealed enclosure when you're goal is SPL, seems rather wasteful to your electrical resources when all you need is a ported enclosure to start with..
Then, if it's still not loud enough you should start throwing power at it but whatever the intended purpose is use the proper type of enclosure,.
In the past i thought a sealed box was the schitt until i put my subs in a vented enclosure, I'll never go back to a sealed box..
Luckily in this great big world of ours there's something for everybody and everybody can have their opinion on what they think is best, some folks like a sealed box for SQ and some folks prefer a ported enclosure for SPL and some folks just the opposite..
The truth is, it's all good


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

gstokes said:


> In the past i thought a sealed box was the schitt until i put my subs in a vented enclosure, I'll never go back to a sealed box..



I can find thousand confessions on this very site stating this conversion. I can`t find any opposite. rest of the post is too loose to agree without writing a small essay I`m too lazy to repeat for millions time. :laugh:


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

the things i would do to port my morels.. theres just no room in a 2 seat hatchback that already has 6 larger sized amps tucked away, without making the whole rear of the car hideous. but, on the other had, without cabin gain i would have a flat response down to 30hz in the appropriately sized box


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> the things i would do to port my morels.. theres just no room in a 2 seat hatchback that already has 6 larger sized amps tucked away, without making the whole rear of the car hideous. but, on the other hand, without cabin gain i would have a flat response down to 30hz in the appropriately sized box


 I know YOU would.  space limitation is legitimate reason.
I just can`t stand arrogant assclowns who bought their first POS amp screwed it on top of small sealed box with drywall screws and all of a sudden became experts in sound reproduction. It seems that approach prevail lately in car audio world. 
Not saying that anyone in this thread qualified as such, just general observation from the guy who often accused in generalisations.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Victor_inox said:


> I know YOU would.  space limitation is legitimate reason.
> I just can`t stand arrogant assclowns who bought their first POS amp screwed it on top of small sealed box with drywall screws and all of a sudden became experts in sound reproduction. It seems that approach prevail lately in car audio world.
> Not saying that anyone in this thread qualified as such, just general observation from the guy who often accused in generalisations.


welp, you know how said person is lol. and im not sure if making the back of my car ugly as sin is worth the extra output which i know ill want. im wondering if the illusion cxl sub will have more output than the two of morels and maybe i wont have to take up so much room with a ported box, and maybe just use the morels for my daily instead of my diyma r12s that i planned on using. THEN WHAT WILL I DO WITH MY DIYMA R12'S!! ALSO MY FI Q NEEDS SOME LOVE! OH GOD WHAT A FIRST WORLD NIGHTMARE!


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## Iamsmuts (May 24, 2015)

This reminds me of Nick's 29 piece drum set on "Freaks and Geeks." 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CqOtEz6PfA

Remember his audition. . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78djkhc0rt8


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> .. rest of the post is too loose to agree without writing a small essay I`m too lazy to repeat for millions time. :laugh:


lol, I'm pretty careful about keeping it loose


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

Man...8 tweeters???? Are you wanting to make ears bleed? 

Back in the day...errr...1991-1993...I had four Kicker D20 tweets and four Kicker C6.5" mids in the doors of my Toyota 4x4 xtra-cab (2 in each door of course). They were powered by a series VII Odin on mids, a Pluto for the tweets...and a Boltar on four Kicker C15 subs in 3.5 cubes each (walled off xtracab). Total system power @1100 watts.

That truck was insane loud. The tweets and mids had no prob keeping up with the 15's. 130-132db's at the time....


It was a beach party truck and was fantastic for that. I see NO REASON AT ALL to have more than 8 speakers for your mids and tweets. Complete overkill but hey...it's your system.


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

Victor_inox said:


> restricting sub movement by air spring is bad practice acceptable in some cases. Try reading theory for starters.
> That is all I`m trying to tell you. you either trying to learn or prefer to stay ignorant. that is up to you.


So, you mean, like, ported enclosures which do exactly this at their tuned frequency?  This is suddenly bad practice? You've completely destroyed your own argument, sir...


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

As far as I know... The only enclosures which do not fully rely on "air spring" as termed by Victor, our resident expert on everything, are 1/4 wave enclosures, which by the way, I am running in my home system... I designed and built them myself, and they sound amazing... So much for theory... I'm sure I must be missing many important things...

I'm pathetically ignorant...woe is me... But I'm desperately seeking Victor's approval... LOL


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## gstokes (Apr 20, 2014)

XSIV SPL said:


> As far as I know... The only enclosures which do not fully rely on "air spring" as termed by Victor, our resident expert on everything, are 1/4 wave enclosures


T-Line, I bet it does sound good.. 
Me jealous


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

XSIV SPL said:


> So, you mean, like, ported enclosures which do exactly this at their tuned frequency?  This is suddenly bad practice? You've completely destroyed your own argument, sir...


 you got it wrong again, port is not air spring port resonating frequency completely different thing. 
according to you IB is airspring as well as far as there resistance? why sound pressure drops in IB configuration?

is that so hard to buy god damn loudspeaker cookbook and learn basics? 

or go to school , maybe after you pay tuition you will pay attention as well.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

XSIV SPL said:


> As far as I know... The only enclosures which do not fully rely on "air spring" as termed by Victor, our resident expert on everything, are 1/4 wave enclosures, which by the way, I am running in my home system... I designed and built them myself, and they sound amazing... So much for theory... I'm sure I must be missing many important things...
> 
> I'm pathetically ignorant...woe is me... But I'm desperately seeking Victor's approval... LOL



approval is easy, willingness to learn and wipe that retarded smirk off your face, trust me it`s still there.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

gstokes said:


> T-Line, I bet it does sound good..
> Me jealous


 Properly build it does. but there a whole lot of failed designs by very respectable companies.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

gstokes said:


> T-Line, I bet it does sound good..
> Me jealous


they are pretty awesome, but my god do they take up real estate..


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## 1styearsi (Aug 13, 2012)

i built "the wicked one" with 2 dvc orion cobalt 8's and put it in my crx it was awesome.i ended up putting in in my house.
Wicked One - Dual BP Folded Horn Subwoofer
https://www.google.com/search?q=the...&ei=raNyVce6BsihyASQ2YOgBw&ved=0CDAQsAQ&dpr=1


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## therapture (Jan 31, 2013)

This thread devolved quickly...from 8 tweeters discussion to an argument on subwoofer theory...

I think I'll go pour myself a stiff scotch.


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## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

therapture said:


> This thread devolved quickly...from 8 tweeters discussion to an argument on subwoofer theory...
> 
> I think I'll go pour myself a stiff scotch.


notice how this happens to every thread xsiv spl posts in..? :laugh: 

and before anyone or even he says anything, i had no part in this one lol


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

1styearsi said:


> i built "the wicked one" with 2 dvc orion cobalt 8's and put it in my crx it was awesome.i ended up putting in in my house.
> Wicked One - Dual BP Folded Horn Subwoofer
> https://www.google.com/search?q=the...&ei=raNyVce6BsihyASQ2YOgBw&ved=0CDAQsAQ&dpr=1


 Very nice!


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

therapture said:


> This thread devolved quickly...from 8 tweeters discussion to an argument on subwoofer theory...
> 
> I think I'll go pour myself a stiff scotch.


I think it`s actually evolved from 8 tweeters.


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## Victor_inox (Apr 27, 2012)

SkizeR said:


> notice how this happens to every thread xsiv spl posts in..? :laugh:
> 
> and before anyone or even he says anything, i had no part in this one lol


Or just go read his posts, it`s a comic book by itself.


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## XSIV SPL (Jun 24, 2014)

LMAO at you Victor... I guess I struck a nerve... 

Perhaps you're not everything you think you are...


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