# Midrange/Midwoofer comparison, Part 1/2



## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Ok, done with the measurements. As I said in the other thread I would do a subjective blind test, this will be performed at a later time in a more controlled environment than I have access to at the moment. Therefore this will be the first of part of two in this driver comparison. I don't know exactly when that will take place, 1-3 weeks depending on when other people are able to join the listening session.

Now, on to the test. The tested drivers are the following;

*DLS Iridium 8i ( 8" )
*Dayton RS125-8 ( 5" )
*Dayton RS180-8 ( 7" )
*Usher 8848-P ( 7" )
*Seas L18 H1224 ( 7" )
*Exodus Anarchy ( 6.5" )

There are no special reason why I tested these drivers. I had access to them, simple as that. 

The drivers have been tested the same way, at the same levels and can be directly compared to each other.

Equipment:

*USB Micmate w. Phantom Power
*Behringer ECM8000 Microphone
*Stationary computer with an Audigy XtremeMusic soundcard.
*Wt3/DATS (Dayton T/S Parameter tester)
*Ultimate DT2 800 - Class T amplifier driving the speakers.

Calibration file was used for the ECM8000 mic, soundcard was also calibrated using a loopback test. Frequency response was measured in HOLMimpulse. Nearfield and farfield was merged at 500Hz using 100Hz +/- 'smoothing' algorithm at the merging point. Farfield measurements was done at 96cm at all angles. The farfield measurements was gated to negate the room interaction as much as possible. The drivers were mounted on a wall (2.5m x 1.2m) and about 1m away from the floor and any wall. On-Axis (black), 30 degrees (blue) and 45 degrees (red) was measured at an SPL of 90dB/1m (measured between 300-1000Hz). The merged response is smoothed n^12 (1/12 oct). 

Distortion measurements was done with ARTA. 2nd order HD in green, 3rd order HD in blue. HD measurements was done 'almost nearfield' at 15cm distance. SPL measured 92dB/0.5m for all drivers (measured between 300-1000Hz). HD graph is smoothed 1/24 oct. All drivers been burned in for at least 30 hours. T/S parameters were measured at an ambient temperature of 18 degrees Celsius (about room temperature). VAS is calculated with a known Mmd from the manufactures spec sheet, some don't specify Mmd so I used delta mass for the others, not as accurate but it get the job done. Btw, don't bother looking at the FR at the ARTA measurements (HD graphs), it's not completely accurate for various reasons. 

**There is a weird artifact at 50Hz in all measurements, dunno the cause. For accurate low frequency performance, modelling should be done in WinISD, BassBox or whatever you use**

*DLS Iridium 8i*



















This driver was part of the DLS Ultimate series and was sold as both a 2-way and a 3-way component set. When I bought the 8.3 set the retail price was about $1800 (bought a demo ex, so I got it much cheeper...). This is a nom 4 ohm driver. Anyway, it's an interesting driver with a 3" VC and a small neo magnet. The driver is back-vented and made for IB applications. It's very light and easy to install due to its small mounting depth. 










The measured T/S parameters differed some from the specced parameters. Qts was much higher for instance, however this makes it ideal for 'IB' door mounting. Impedance plot ain't perfect, two peaks at 1200Hz/2800Hz. Le is quite low though, in fact lowest of the drivers I tested at 0.5mH/1kHz.










Frequency response is quite flat up to 2kHz, the peak around 3kHz is caused by 3rd order distortion. I recommend a 1,6kHz-12dB/oct or a 2kHz-24dB/oct filter in a 2-way. There is a dip that shows up in the red graph at 1200Hz, coincides with the impedance peak. Don't know why is doesn't show up on the farfield 0,30deg measurements, re-did it three times with the same results. 










HD performance is very good up to 400Hz. The 3rd order peak at 900Hz causes the FR peak at 2700Hz, not nice... In a 3-way as I'm using it in the performace is great. Great midbass performance. High performance between 50Hz-400Hz in 3-way.

DLS Homepage:

DLS - Products

*The DLS Iridium 8i is a great driver for midbass. Its small mounting depth combined with 'ideal' T/S parameters for 'IB' makes it a great driver for door mounting. High build quality, these have been in my car for over two years but no sign of rust or oxides can be seen. Inside the car they have great output down to 50Hz, maybe even 40Hz with a steep slope. Ran them with a 50W amp before, it had no issues pushing them to Xmax. DLS doesn't list Xmax but I estimate it's around 5-6mm one way.*

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*Dayton RS125-8*

* Managed to the delete the top view picture, it look the same as the RS180, only smaller  *










The Dayton RS125-8 is smaller than an ordinary 5" driver, I'd say it's a 4" driver really. It's therefore the smallest driver in the test, in contrast to the DLS which was the biggest. It's a 8 ohm nom driver. Looks great, black cone and a black phase plug. It can almost be used as a fullrange driver, but ultimately it's an 'extended' midrange driver. Cheapest of all drivers here, currently at $90/pair (in Sweden). Very small mounting depth, T/S parameters indicate that it has decent performance in 'IB' configurations.










Perfect impedance plot, no peaks indicates no real breakup or motor/suspension issues. 2nd lowest Le in the test. Free air resonance at 76Hz.










Considering off-axis response, I'd say a lowpass around 5kHz could work. On-axis it can be used higher, with some EQ you could have 'flat' response up to 14-15kHz. No idea how it sounds yet, have comment on that later. 45 degree off-axis response tracks fine up to 3kHz. It will do fine in a 2-way! Perhaps 100Hz/24dB as highpass and 3-5kHz/12dB as lowpass.










HD performance below 100Hz is worst in the group, it's kind of unfair since the driver is this small. THD hits 1% around 80Hz and rising fast below that. Very clean between 200-1000Hz. Little highish 3rd order between 1800-4000Hz, but it's not that bad. Overall good midrange performance.

Manufacturer spec sheet

*Haven't listened to this driver at all yet. Based on the measurements I'd say you can use it as midbass driver if you're not a SPL freak and are fine with a highpass frequency around 100Hz. This require a sub that can perform well up to 200Hz or so and that you can integrate them well together. Neat looking driver, nice overall performance for this size with stellar lower midrange performance. It 'can' be used fullrange with some EQ and perhaps a small neo tweeter crossed high.*

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*Dayton RS180-8*



















This classic driver from Dayton is a great performer, especially as a midbass driver. Used it for almost a year in my other car in a 2-way. Was very happy with it. Works very well for door mounting, had great output down to 50Hz in that setup with this driver. Looks great, stealthy and cool. Only downside is a huge flange, might not fit in all doors... This the 8 ohm version, there's a 4 ohm version as well. Not available in Europe as far as I know.










Impedance plot looks great. No irregularities to speak of. Le is ain't that high either with a value of 0,78mH/1kHz. Qts is a bit low for IB mounting, my experience with these drivers tell me they work great anyway. Easy to push as well, had around 60W/8ohm and easily reached Xmax. Fs at 39Hz, you can expect a slight rise inside doors, probably end up at 45-50Hz or so.










Usable to 3kHz mounted on-axis/30deg off-axis. Drops off pretty much at 45 degrees, at least beyond 1,5kHz. Overall I'd say that this driver should be crossed no higher than 2kHz at a steep slope ~18/24dB. Nothing to complain at otherwise, FR looks good enough up to 2kHz at least. 










Great performance, usable to 2kHz (to avoid the 3rd order peak). Otherwise very clean bass and lower midrange. 3rd order HD is higher than 2nd order almost through the whole usable range, this usually tend to give the speaker a more cold/bright or "detailed" character. The non-linear performance is still very good, the levels are way down, below 1% THD from 60Hz to 2200Hz.

Spec sheet

*Great driver, stellar performance in bass, lower midrange. HD is good below 2kHz, dispersion could have been slightly better above 1kHz. There's a nasty breakup at 6,5kHz, so use steep slopes and not too high! Mounting depth is moderate, but the flange is too big - it might be hard to install in some cars, almost as big as the DLS which is an 8 inch driver. Even so, I recommend this driver if you're looking for cheap but stellar midbass.*

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*Usher 8848-P*



















Usher 8848-P is slightly different different driver from the others. It uses a special cone material, it feels very soft, like 'furry' paper ;P

Build quality is very high, really heavy and robust construction. Almost bigger than the Exodus Anarchy, which is a beast. This driver has cousin with the same motor, the 8845-P - this one is still available. The only difference is the cone material (the Usher dealer told me so). In any case the suspension feel amazing, it feels very linear, compliant and well engineered. This a great performer as well, check Zaph's measurements.



















The impedance peak spiked so high that I included a zoomed in version as well. Not perfect, but still very decent looking curve. Two peaks and some lesser ones. Fs is very low, like subwoofer low. Qts is very low as well and Vas is pretty high. I don't recommend this driver to the used in a door, you need some sort of enclosure of it. The cone material seems sensitive to water as well. Le is decent at 0,77mH/1kHz.










FR profile differs some from the other drivers with a rising amplitude above 1,5kHz that ends up with a peak at 4kHz. They are almost ruler flat to 4kHz - 30 degrees off axis so that quite awesome. These are usable to 3kHz even 45 degrees off axis, so they are great 2-way drivers. They don't have any break up to speak of either. They have a classic paper sound, used these in a home audio project and they are great crossed 2,5kHz/12dB.










HD performance is very good, crossover points are basically limited to FR. Overall low levels in the whole usable range. Not the best bass performance but still very good. I have nothing to complain at really.


Spec sheet

*Might not be the best driver to use in a car. The driver is huge and you better use some form of enclosure for it. I don't know how sensitive the cone material is for moisture either, it's un-treated paper so you should be careful with it. It's a great performer, but it's annoying to install. It's inefficient with the low Fs and the low Q as well, you really need an enclosure for it... It performs great offaxis if you are mating it against a tweeter which needs to be crossed in the low 3000's. *

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*SEAS Prestige L18RNX/P*




























This driver performs striking similar to Dayton RS180. Both FR and HD plots look alike. The Seas L18 have an expensive look with the aluminium cone with a black phase plug. It has also a neat looking open VC design, which might not be 'that' great in a car door but I dunno... I had issues with these drivers before and never used them, had to replace two drivers because of off center phase plug. The drivers I got now are working fine, dunno if this was an isolated incident or not. Well well...










The impedance plot is almost perfect. No peaks to speak of. Le is a bit highish but not super bad. Other parameters suggest that should perform decent in 'IB'/door mounting. 










FR is really smooth with an slight rolloff above 1.5kHz. This makes it pleasant to listen at 'out of the box'. It sounds similar on and off axis, there's not a significant drop in SPL audibly. I'd say this driver is easy to work with, it's usable to 3kHz or so, perhaps a 12dB slope will do. Break up occurs at 6,8kHz and it's nasty. Looks similar to the Dayton RS180.










HD performance is similar to Dayton RS180 as well. Stellar midbass performance. 3rd order HD peaks above 2kHz and it's related to the peaks at 6-7kHz. Very low HD up to 1,5kHz.

Spec sheet

*Looking at the measurements it looks like a copy of Dayton RS180 as I said. We'll see how it compares later in the listening test. Smaller flange than the RS180 makes it easier to install, but it has an open VC design, idk about mounting it in a door. Still, it performs good and can be used a little higher than the RS180 so it's not bad.*

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*Exodus Anarchy*



















Oh I gotta say, I love this monster. It's badass, impossible to fit a door but who cares. Its stellar performance overcomes that issue xD

For a 6,5" driver it sure has some output, well it's basically a subwoofer... and that comes with the largest mounting depth ever (idk about that it feels like it). Lucky you who can fit this monster inside the door without modifications.










Not bad, the magnet is frikkin huge but Le is 'only' at 1,35mH/1kHz. Quite decent for such a driver actually, but high compared to the others. One hiccup in impedance at ~4,2kHz. This peak can be seen in FR as well, obviously some breakup or something related to the suspension/motor. 










Great sound power, on-axis and off-axis response tracks almost perfectly, only smaller in amplitude. Actually usable to 3,5kHz or so. Easily usable in a 2-way. Workable FR, reasonably flat beyond 3kHz. Overall good performance here, especially for a 'subwoofer' as this driver is labeled as.










Best bass performance in the test. Highest amount of excursion as well. Except from the 3rd order peak at 1,5kHz (which can be seen in FR at 4,5kHz), its performance is great in the midrange as well. 2nd order HD is way down in the whole usable range.

Spec sheet

*Greatest bass performance in the test. Holds up good at really high volume, used this in the car before. Amazing performance really, can be used as low as you want. Your install basically limits the driver since everything rattles to pieces at lower frequencies. Well, both FR and HD looks good, usable in a 2-way. Don't know how IMD looks since this is a high excursion driver. I might add measurements of this if I find some good way to do it. Recommended driver as well. *


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Mounting depth comparison;










Rear row; 1. Exodus 2. Usher 3. Seas

Front row; 1. RS180 2. DLS 3. Rs125


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Quick model if someone wanna see low end performance, theoretical numbers... You can push those SPL numbers if you raise the HP, the RS125 will be louder if you use a higher HP freq (well, at those higher frequencies...  )

Note that the DLS will get twice the power from the amp since it a 4 ohm driver, the others are 8 ohm.


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## 07azhhr (Dec 28, 2011)

Very nice. It is interesting that they all seem to change at the 700-800 mark when they are off axis. I would have thought that would be located at different frequencies between them all.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

07azhhr said:


> Very nice. It is interesting that they all seem to change at the 700-800 mark when they are off axis. I would have thought that would be located at different frequencies between them all.


All plots are merged nearfield --> farfield around 500Hz. They are not tested for offaxis response below 500Hz, dispersion is great at those frequencies so even if I measured lower without room interaction it would look about the same. We measure nearfield to get rid of the "room", i.e reflections and stuff that would alter the measurements, then the farfield measurements are merged with the nearfield to give a complete FR plot.


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## NonSenCe (Jun 4, 2011)

what, dayton rs180 not available in europe anymore?

europeaudio and lautsprechershop used to have them.. and so did few other shops.

-waiting anxiously of the listening results.. please.. update each as you hear it.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

NonSenCe said:


> what, dayton rs180 not available in europe anymore?
> 
> europeaudio and lautsprechershop used to have them.. and so did few other shops.
> 
> -waiting anxiously of the listening results.. please.. update each as you hear it.


I said the 4 ohm version wasn't available. Well at least at europe audio 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## thehatedguy (May 4, 2007)

I don't know if I would say the Seas is a clone of the Dayton...the other way around make more sense to me. But even then Idon't know if I would call it an out right clone...maybe just heavily inspired by Seas .


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## cyrusthevirus23 (Feb 16, 2013)

great feedback looking forward to part 2


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

thehatedguy said:


> I don't know if I would say the Seas is a clone of the Dayton...the other way around make more sense to me. But even then Idon't know if I would call it an out right clone...maybe just heavily inspired by Seas .


Yeah... that's true


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Will do a proper conclusion in part 2 later btw.


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## aj1735 (Feb 27, 2011)

when will you be doing part 2?


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Most likely the weekend after next weekend. Working a lot atm =/

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.


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## NonSenCe (Jun 4, 2011)

he hee.. soon the long wait for updates should be over.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Yeah, sorry... Been working too much lately, we will most likely perform the test this upcoming weekend. Enclosures and stuff are finished


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

We have completed a 9 hour long listening test today. Well we didn't listen for 9 hours straight, had to take some breaks to avoid inducing listening fatigue. As I suspected it was tricky to level match the tweeter against the mid but I think I got it as good as possible (around 0,5dB). I managed to the hold of a small private "recording studio" with lots of sound absorbers in the roof and walls. We had some interesting results, will do a writeup soon. 

However I had a bit of a setback. The CF-card I had in my Canon 7D is gone, shot a few pictures and a short video and removed the card from the camera FOR SOME REASON. Now I can't find it anywhere, I have no frikkin idea where the damn card is. So damn pissed off atm, first off the card was really expensive (like $600), second I had over a thousand pictures I hadn't transferred to my computer yet. Can't understand why I haven't backup'd the card in over three weeks, usually I do it almost every day. Lost an enormous amount of pictures if I don't find it  

Well at least we wrote down the results on a paper... which I didn't manage to lose omg :<


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## jpswanberg (Jan 14, 2009)

Put out a bowl of porridge, and hopefully "Tomtarna" will give you back the CF card. Seriously, that sucks and I hope you find it. JPS


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## NonSenCe (Jun 4, 2011)

that is sad news hanatsu. all those pictures. 

and those annoying mischievous house elves steal all little things you drop! you know you left your keys on desk, they arent there. but after going thru whole house you will find the keys returned to the original spot where you looked on first place. 

the card: it is likely on top of the stereo or inside the sofa cushions (if you listened these in the house) in the car it is likely in center console, or dropped between it and the seat.  anyways thats where i find my stuff.


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## IBcivic (Jan 6, 2009)

stuck to a speaker magnet?


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

UUh, omg. Searched through the camera bag 4 times, the car 2 times, under seats, everywhere really... looked on the ground from the parking lot to the apartment... nothing.

Called the guy who owns the place we conducted the listening test and asked him to look once more if he could find it over his place, but nope. So I went over there myself (his place is about 27miles away btw) and looked everywhere and it's nowhere to be found. I give up... seriously :<

This day sucks... HOPEFULLY I can get some insurance money for the CF card at least, won't bring the data back though.


And I forgot, the best part. One speaker got damaged in the car, some sharp thing in the trunk had fallen over a Seas L18 driver, made a nice small hole in it (no box for just this speaker, just a plastic bag). Good for me I had 3 of them. Ridiculous isn't it? lol xD


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## Niebur3 (Jul 11, 2008)

I've been there. These type of test have challenges nobody ever thinks about.


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## Hanatsu (Nov 9, 2010)

Someone want a nice Seas L18? xD


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## Changchung (Aug 15, 2012)

Hanatsu said:


> Someone want a nice Seas L18? xD


What happen to him??? It is a hole?


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## REGULARCAB (Sep 26, 2013)

Necro, only because ive been lurking every night for almost a year now and never came across this thread.

Good stuff.


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## plcrides (Mar 21, 2014)

i love these and it makes me want to run out and get the Exodus since i can fit it in my kick panels and i am aiming to run a 2 way set up.anarchy its a beast...


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