# Frustrated with WinISD - alternatives?



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I've given WinISD what I'd consider a fair shake. I've used lots of software - including notorious early ENVI packages. But WinISD is one that just consistently frustrates me and more than any other software I've tried to use. Numero uno. Top dog.

I wanna design some enclosures and it's time for new software. None of the free stuff I've found is really doing it for me. I'd been eyeballing Bass Box Pro and some of the other stuff available at PE. Are programs like these worth the cost? I mean, do they actually work well and with enough detail to cover all aspects of box design with a reasonably intuitive interface? Any recommendations within a couple Benjamins?

:ears:


----------



## Dan750iL (Jan 16, 2016)

sub'd


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

rob feature said:


> I've given WinISD what I'd consider a fair shake. I've used lots of software - including notorious early ENVI packages. But WinISD is one that just consistently frustrates me and more than any other software I've tried to use. Numero uno. Top dog.
> 
> I wanna design some enclosures and it's time for new software. None of the free stuff I've found is really doing it for me. I'd been eyeballing Bass Box Pro and some of the other stuff available at PE. Are programs like these worth the cost? I mean, do they actually work well and with enough detail to cover all aspects of box design with a reasonably intuitive interface? Any recommendations within a couple Benjamins?
> 
> :ears:


bassbox pro


----------



## nineball76 (Mar 13, 2010)

Term pro is another alternative. 

Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

nineball76 said:


> Term pro is another alternative.
> 
> Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk


Never heard of this one. Fun site to poke around if nothing else. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

OFMG - some video gold on that site (Termpro). 

I'm in this crowd somewhere!


----------



## SHAGGS (Apr 24, 2011)

I hear the frustration with WinISD. 
I was just trying to plot a ported enclosure for a Sundown X6.5, last night.
Everything looked normal on the plot, but apparently my vent needs to be 8,700 ft long!
The more I tried to fix it, it only seemed to get worse. 

Have you tried any of the YouTube tutorials for it? 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=winisd+tutorial

That's my next step, when I have a few minutes.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

what exactly is bothering you about it? my only complaint is that i have to close it through the task manager


----------



## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

I have never had a real issue with winisd either. I'm curious what you dislike as well. Termpro is the make of the most accepted SPL meters for comps. At least it was. They used to just have comps listed on their site(and stuff for sale of course). I were it's been vastly expanded since I last checked it out.


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> what exactly is bothering you about it? my only complaint is that i have to close it through the task manager


It's quirky & buggy & sensitive & picky & generally aggravating. 

Perhaps user error, but but perhaps not the most human-friendly design either. 

I may give the youtube videos a shot & see if it brings it all together. After all, it is free. 

Still looking for good alternatives though. :ears:


----------



## DC/Hertz (Nov 27, 2011)

Theslaking said:


> I have never had a real issue with winisd either. I'm curious what you dislike as well. Termpro is the make of the most accepted SPL meters for comps. At least it was. They used to just have comps listed on their site(and stuff for sale of course). I were it's been vastly expanded since I last checked it out.


They've had it for a few years. I've never messed with it.


----------



## SkizeR (Apr 19, 2011)

rob feature said:


> It's quirky & buggy & sensitive & picky & generally aggravating.
> 
> Perhaps user error, but but perhaps not the most human-friendly design either.
> 
> ...


like what kind of bugs? ive seriously never encountered anything aside from the program wont close when i just "X" it out. i have to use the task manager to close it


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

SkizeR said:


> like what kind of bugs? ive seriously never encountered anything aside from the program wont close when i just "X" it out. i have to use the task manager to close it


Like change one parameter in the model - say enclosure size and everything goes wonky and you get to start from scratch. Having to convert units because it's limited to metric seems senseless. Half the data out there is in imperial units. Inputting your own drivers doesn't always work and it's finicky about the order. Then you need luck. etc. etc. etc. I want new software


----------



## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

If you click on the unit of measure it'll cycle through all the options. It has metric and standard. I've not personally experienced issues with changing box perameters. If you do change something it of course effects the tuning, but that's a given for any program. 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

street.terror said:


> If you click on the unit of measure it'll cycle through all the options. It has metric and standard. I've not personally experienced issues with changing box perameters. If you do change something it of course effects the tuning, but that's a given for any program.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


 Yeah, that's another gripe. It starts in square meters, then goes to liters, then deciliters, mililiters, and so on (or so it seems)...never comes back, never circles back around to square meters. Only one control here - deeper down the hole. You get to start from scratch or figure out where you are now because every time you click it you get another decimal point or something.

Still, the options don't contain cubic feet - which is all many of us are given. So we get to google that then plug it in each time. Instead of building in a little chunk of code to include imperial units. Yes, I wish we all used metric, but we don't. Software is supposed to make your life easier...to do calculations for you. Just seems like that would have made one of the updates by now.

But it's only one in a long list of reasons I'm looking for alternatives. Really, I didn't start this thread to complain about WinISD. I sincerely appreciate the effort. I just want better software if it exists.


----------



## Jheitt142 (Dec 7, 2011)

rob feature said:


> Yeah, that's another gripe. It starts in square meters, then goes to liters, then deciliters, mililiters, and so on (or so it seems)...never comes back, never circles back around to square meters. Only one control here - deeper down the hole. You get to start from scratch or figure out where you are now because every time you click it you get another decimal point or something.
> 
> Still, the options don't contain cubic feet - which is all many of us are given. So we get to google that then plug it in each time. Instead of building in a little chunk of code to include imperial units. Yes, I wish we all used metric, but we don't. Software is supposed to make your life easier...to do calculations for you. Just seems like that would have made one of the updates by now.
> 
> But it's only one in a long list of reasons I'm looking for alternatives. Really, I didn't start this thread to complain about WinISD. I sincerely appreciate the effort. I just want better software if it exists.


I can be a process that's for sure. But it's free so I'm okay with it. I would imagine user friendliness is huge part of what you get by using a paid software. Parts express uses bass box pro so it must be alright

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## strohw (Jan 27, 2016)

Are you using WinISD Pro or the regular version?


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Pro Alpha .50a7 at the moment, but have used a few previous versions. Seems like one back was a bit more stable.


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

I've found the beta version of WinISD to be easier to work with though Alpha gives more detail. I now use BBPro, but I've had it for at least 15-20 years. What I do like about the beta version is it's more forgiving with tooling around with ported & 4th order bandpass vs BB6 takes a bit of finagling to do custom stuff. The only good thing about BB6 is the database and small bits of info given during modeling. Still, modeling must be taken with a grain of salt. It's easy to interpret the data wrong as far as the end result and most don't use it to it's fullest potential like inputting their actual vehicle acoustics.


----------



## Orion525iT (Mar 6, 2011)

Use Hornresp.

But seriously, WinISD is a bit quirky, but it's not that bad. When designing my bandpass boxes, I used WinISD first and took the box parameters generated into Hornresp to tweek phase shift, port resonance, crossover filters, ect. The predicted response was nearly identical on both simulators down to group delay and port velocity. So for a basic solid build, WinISD still works pretty well.


----------



## Justin Zazzi (May 28, 2012)

If you're considering one of the programs on parts-express around a couple benjamins, don't consider SoundEasy yet. The author has built the software equivalent of the Winchester Mystery House and until he addresses the absurd user interface and nearly useless documentation, I cannot recommend it to anyone other than someone with an engineering degree and tons of patience.


----------



## bassfreak85 (Jul 26, 2009)

rob feature said:


> It's quirky & buggy & sensitive & picky & generally aggravating.
> 
> Perhaps user error, but but perhaps not the most human-friendly design either.
> 
> ...


seriously winisd is very accurate. more accurate than the manufactures parameters and list of parameters. lol

what exactly are you having trouble with?


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

bassfreak85 said:


> seriously winisd is very accurate. more accurate than the manufactures parameters and list of parameters. lol
> 
> what exactly are you having trouble with?


just because


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Orion525iT said:


> Use Hornresp.
> 
> But seriously, WinISD is a bit quirky, but it's not that bad. When designing my bandpass boxes, I used WinISD first and took the box parameters generated into Hornresp to tweek phase shift, port resonance, crossover filters, ect. The predicted response was nearly identical on both simulators down to group delay and port velocity. So for a basic solid build, WinISD still works pretty well.


Antivirus didn't like Hornresp at all - called it high risk.

Thanks for all the other recommendations and advice!


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So for giggles I went back and revisited the program for a bit (Pro). Turns out that I'm only having the biggest issues with drivers that I'm inputting myself. I tried a few drivers that were in the database and most of the issues resolved themselves. I've also tried a few different sequences of getting data in manually, but more often than not something about it fails...all derived from different websites. The help files didn't get me far in that regard either. I don't suppose anyone knows of a bulletproof way of getting those into the database?


----------



## Theslaking (Oct 8, 2013)

Problems with inputting drivers has always been a problem


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

I've narrowed my problems with WinISD to either a hardware or OS issue. The same version works perfectly on my laptop, which uses Windows 7. The whole inputting drivers thing is still a thing, but it's easy enough to figure that out after a little tinkering. 

Manual driver input seems to always work for me on the laptop if I input things in order from left to right, top to bottom with the exception of a few. 

Like this - tabbing over after every entry & letting it auto-calculate the rest:

Qes, Qts, Fs, Vas
Mms, BL, Le
Xmax, Pe

Works every time on the laptop


----------



## Bayboy (Dec 29, 2010)

To me, the main advantage of these programs, at least the ones I chose to use, is spec checking. The market is filled with manufacturers that fudge specs, and with numbers far off enough to change the results of how the driver is used. This is especially in my yearnings to find IB suitable drivers. Using the program while entering in given parameters will red or green flag letting you know something is awry which is a start/stopping point in going further. Perhaps there is where your problem lies, false specs that cause problems? I haven't used WinISD in a long time so that's just a suggestion. Still, it has to be taken with a grain of salt because what we are all looking at is small signal analysis. Once real power is applied, things can change considerably.


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Bayboy said:


> Using the program while entering in given parameters will red or green flag letting you know something is awry which is a start/stopping point in going further. Perhaps there is where your problem lies, false specs that cause problems?


No, it's definitely the computer. I just have to use my laptop if I'm going to use WinISD.


----------



## jbeez (Aug 20, 2013)

Are you guys running the latest version? Starts with 0.7 and alot less buggy IME than the old beta and alpha vers on the old site. http://www.linearteam.org

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## jbeez (Aug 20, 2013)

rob feature said:


> I've narrowed my problems with WinISD to either a hardware or OS issue. The same version works perfectly on my laptop, which uses Windows 7. The whole inputting drivers thing is still a thing, but it's easy enough to figure that out after a little tinkering.
> 
> Manual driver input seems to always work for me on the laptop if I input things in order from left to right, top to bottom with the exception of a few.
> 
> ...


And this post has instructions on the specific order to use when entering drivers. It may or may not be the same as you've figured. I reference it anytime i need to add a driver.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...wnload-detailed-guide-how-use-winisd-pro.html

A little annoying but driver entry is usually not frequent for me

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

jbeez said:


> Are you guys running the latest version? Starts with 0.7 and alot less buggy IME than the old beta and alpha vers on the old site. WinISD - Linearteam


.50A7



jbeez said:


> And this post has instructions on the specific order to use when entering drivers. It may or may not be the same as you've figured. I reference it anytime i need to add a driver.
> 
> WinISD Pro Tutorial and Download (A detailed guide on how to use WinISD Pro) - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
> 
> A little annoying but driver entry is usually not frequent for me


No, those are different, but may work. I dunno, the program stopped working on my laptop now. I had to go & say nice things about it. Good thing is I got all the modeling done I wanted to do for now. Gonna try re-installing or sommat.


----------



## jbeez (Aug 20, 2013)

That's an older version, try this version (0.7.950, 29.10.2016)

its at the linearteam.org website


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

Aaah, that is a facelift. All of the drivers I've tried so far 'failed integrity check', so not off to the best start, but I'll play with it a little. Thanks for the heads up on the new version!


----------



## minbari (Mar 3, 2011)

I always loved winISD. I cant tell you how many enclosures I have simulated for people over the years. it does take some getting used to, has some quirks. but once you get it, it is an invaluable tool.


----------



## Triticum Agricolam (Nov 3, 2015)

Like others have said, the new 0.7.0.950 version of WinISD is MUCH better IMHO. 

As far as entering in driver specs goes, here is the official "right" way to do it:

The suggested procedure for entering driver parameters is following (check first that "Auto calculate unknowns" option is checked):

1. Enter Mms and Cms

This gives fs. If either is not available, then enter fs and other parameter.

2. Enter Sd, Bl and Re

Now, you should get all but Qms (and Qts), Vas. Please note that Vas may not match exactly what is specified by manufacturer, because exact value of Vas depends on environmental parameters. See FAQ.

3. Enter Rms or Qms.

Either one will do, although I tend to prefer Qms over Rms, because it can usually be measured in driver measurement procedures.

4. Enter Hc, Hg and Pe.

If Hc or Hg or either is available, then enter Xmax and optionally either Hc or Hg if available.

5. Enter number of voicecoils.

This procedure is most accurate. Also note that it also calculates true SPL (1W/1m) value. So it might not match the marketing SPL value, which is generally somewhat vague. Not in all cases, though.

6. Correct Znom, if necessary.

If there are several voicecoils, then you must be careful when entering parameters in that case, because many manufacturers give Bl in voice coils in series, because it yields double value for Bl against parallel connection. If driver manufacturer gives Qes, Bl and Cms or Mms, then you can check how Bl is specified. For that, you can enter following parameters to calculate Re: Qes, Fs, Mms or Cms and Bl. Connection mode can be changed by changing the combobox selection. The driver editor then converts Bl and Re values accordingly.

Equivalently, you can check for Bl by entering:

Qes, Fs, Mms or Cms and Re (for desired connection mode).

If you enter resistance for parallel connection and get about half of advertised Bl, then you know, that Bl was specified that way.

Like in Driver-tab in project window, you'll probably noticed the driver icon in bottom of the driver editor window. you can drag the driver object into some project by just dragging the icon.


----------



## rob feature (Nov 15, 2015)

So I have been liking the new version of WinISD enough to use it a lot. It's stable enough now although went through a phase where it would crash whenever I clicked on the excursion tab. 

Anyway, I tripped across another suite of programs from ajdesigner.com. It's simpler than WinISD but comes with a box calculator. Tiny downloads too.

Sample screenie


----------



## Onyx1136 (Mar 15, 2009)

Triticum Agricolam said:


> Like others have said, the new 0.7.0.950 version of WinISD is MUCH better IMHO.
> 
> As far as entering in driver specs goes, here is the official "right" way to do it:
> 
> ...


This should be a sticky.


----------

